# Thanks Biden, the Terrorists are beheading our allies again.



## Turtlesoup (Sep 10, 2021)

Taliban celebrate beheading of Afghan soldier in grisly video
					

EXCLUSIVE — The Taliban beheaded an Afghan soldier, then chanted praise to their leader while holding the severed head of their victim by his hair in a video posted in a private Taliban chat room.




					www.yahoo.com
				




But their propaganda minister claims that they aren't hurting anyone and that we shouldn't care about what they are doing.


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## SassyIrishLass (Sep 10, 2021)

Let me guess, the peaceful religion?


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## MarathonMike (Sep 10, 2021)

CNN will report it as a mostly peaceful beheading.


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## skye (Sep 10, 2021)

And Biden and his thugs applaud  the beheading.


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## SavannahMann (Sep 10, 2021)

So we should go back into Afghanistan and again take over the country and again put a Sectarian Government in power?


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## sealybobo (Sep 10, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Taliban celebrate beheading of Afghan soldier in grisly video
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE — The Taliban beheaded an Afghan soldier, then chanted praise to their leader while holding the severed head of their victim by his hair in a video posted in a private Taliban chat room.
> ...


So we should have stayed? That’s you position? Or we should go back?


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## Turtlesoup (Sep 10, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> So we should have stayed? That’s you position? Or we should go back?


We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.

This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.


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## Death Angel (Sep 10, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Let me guess, the peaceful religion?


Biden is JUST AS GUILTY of their murders as the Taliban

Nobody will ever trust America again and neither should they


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## SassyIrishLass (Sep 10, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Biden is JUST AS GUILTY of their murders as the Taliban
> 
> Nobody will ever trust America again and neither should they



The entire administration is a mess.

Something has to give, this can't go on for another 3 1/2 years


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## Dragonlady (Sep 10, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.
> 
> This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.



Your war killed 150,000 Afghans, more than 50,000 of them Taliban soldiers, and you still didn't stop them, and you didn't end them.  You killed more than 100,000 Iraqis in that war.  All you have done with your wars and you endless killings of civilians is to give more generations of Muslims reasons to hate the USA.

Donald Trump abandoned the Kurds, who were guarding 10,000 ISIS prisoners, in Syria.  10,000 ISIS fighters were released when the Kurds ran for their lives.  5000 more Taliban and ISIS fighters were released when the Afghan military collapsed after Donald Trump signed the country over to the Taliban.

In his final FUCK YOU to American, Trump released all of the terrorists you spent so much blood and treasure to neutralize.  And American military aggression killed 250,000 Muslims in Iraq and Syria in retaliation for 9/11 is not going to make the Muslim world think very much of you either.


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## sealybobo (Sep 10, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.
> 
> This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.


Trump should have exited and did this. If you think that would have worked why didn’t trump lure them out this way?

Trump also sent a lot of seals on high risk missions. We lost a lot of great men with trump in charge. It was time to cut and run. The taliban wanted to be seen as running us out.

It’s over. good riddance


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## Hossfly (Sep 10, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> It’s over. good riddance



Remember what Yogi said.


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## MarathonMike (Sep 10, 2021)

Dragonlady The Middle East has been the world's butt hole for a thousand years. All they do is cause trouble for themselves and everyone else. The US would never have entered those countries if they weren't totally corrupt murderous barbarians.


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## SassyIrishLass (Sep 10, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> Your war killed 150,000 Afghans, more than 50,000 of them Taliban soldiers, and you still didn't stop them, and you didn't end them.  You killed more than 100,000 Iraqis in that war.  All you have done with your wars and you endless killings of civilians is to give more generations of Muslims reasons to hate the USA.
> 
> Donald Trump abandoned the Kurds, who were guarding 10,000 ISIS prisoners, in Syria.  10,000 ISIS fighters were released when the Kurds ran for their lives.  5000 more Taliban and ISIS fighters were released when the Afghan military collapsed after Donald Trump signed the country over to the Taliban.
> 
> In his final FUCK YOU to American, Trump released all of the terrorists you spent so much blood and treasure to neutralize.  And American military aggression killed 250,000 Muslims in Iraq and Syria in retaliation for 9/11 is not going to make the Muslim world think very much of you either.



Evidently "we" didn't off enough. But 50,000 Taliban is a good start.

I doubt your numbers though


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## themirrorthief (Sep 10, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> Your war killed 150,000 Afghans, more than 50,000 of them Taliban soldiers, and you still didn't stop them, and you didn't end them.  You killed more than 100,000 Iraqis in that war.  All you have done with your wars and you endless killings of civilians is to give more generations of Muslims reasons to hate the USA.
> 
> Donald Trump abandoned the Kurds, who were guarding 10,000 ISIS prisoners, in Syria.  10,000 ISIS fighters were released when the Kurds ran for their lives.  5000 more Taliban and ISIS fighters were released when the Afghan military collapsed after Donald Trump signed the country over to the Taliban.
> 
> In his final FUCK YOU to American, Trump released all of the terrorists you spent so much blood and treasure to neutralize.  And American military aggression killed 250,000 Muslims in Iraq and Syria in retaliation for 9/11 is not going to make the Muslim world think very much of you either.


biden will punish us for being pro  usa   a
nation  he obviously hates


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## sealybobo (Sep 10, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> Dragonlady The Middle East has been the world's butt hole for a thousand years. All they do is cause trouble for themselves and everyone else. The US would never have entered those countries if they weren't totally corrupt murderous barbarians.


I heard once that the real reason we are fighting with the Arabs is they wont Buy into our way of banking. Debt, interest, credit card,


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## beautress (Sep 10, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> The entire administration is a mess.
> 
> Something has to give, this can't go on for another 3 1/2 years


If there was a decent bone in the deep state body they would give all those stolen seats back to Trump and the House and Senate seats they pinched. But there isn't a single decent bone in any sitting in a lotta someone else's stolen seat.


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## Turtlesoup (Sep 10, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Trump should have exited and did this. If you think that would have worked why didn’t trump lure them out this way?
> 
> Trump also sent a lot of seals on high risk missions. We lost a lot of great men with trump in charge. It was time to cut and run. The taliban wanted to be seen as running us out.
> 
> It’s over. good riddance


If Trump would have done this, he would have been accused of genocide and war crimes...cause lord forbid if the US takes out poor wittle misunderstood terrorists with a republicans in...


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## Concerned American (Sep 11, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> Dragonlady The Middle East has been the world's butt hole for a thousand years. All they do is cause trouble for themselves and everyone else. The US would never have entered those countries if they weren't totally corrupt murderous barbarians.


Modern Day Crusades?


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## Colin norris (Sep 11, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Taliban celebrate beheading of Afghan soldier in grisly video
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE — The Taliban beheaded an Afghan soldier, then chanted praise to their leader while holding the severed head of their victim by his hair in a video posted in a private Taliban chat room.
> ...



Honestly, who cares.  If you chose to live there after having 20 years to get out, 
Suffer the consequences.  
They've been cutting off heads forever.  
They are animals and it's no presidents fault.


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## Lakhota (Sep 11, 2021)

Blame the Bushes!


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## Turtlesoup (Sep 11, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Honestly, who cares.  If you chose to live there after having 20 years to get out,
> Suffer the consequences.
> They've been cutting off heads forever.
> They are animals and it's no presidents fault.


They are animals....but we have a duty to the people that helped us and now because of it has  put them and their families heads on the chopping block especially after that dipshit Biden gave the Taliban a list of all those that helped us and where they lived.

Secondly, by allowing the Taliban to do this---we have just told them that ALLAH wants them to attack the west next---muslims see us running as a sign from their god to kill westerners and especially americans now.   To stop terror attacks here--we should have stayed there executing with extreme prejudice any terrorists and their clerics.  That fucking biden is about have a bunch more of we americans killed.


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## Esdraelon (Sep 11, 2021)

SavannahMann said:


> So we should go back into Afghanistan and again take over the country and again put a Sectarian Government in power?


I don't see anyone saying anything like that.  The absolute chaos that occurred during the evacuation was unnecessary and anyone who says it was "inevitable" either doesn't have a clue about military matters or they're sold out political hacks.

It's very likely that this beheading will just be the first and what would you recommend if the next one is clearly identified as an American who was left behind?


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## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Honestly, who cares.  If you chose to live there after having 20 years to get out,
> Suffer the consequences.
> They've been cutting off heads forever.
> They are animals and it's no presidents fault.



If this really did happen then it is a heavy war crime. This means also the leadership of the Taliban is responsible for this antiquated cruel form of murder on reason to establish a new terror regime.


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## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Biden is JUST AS GUILTY of their murders as the Taliban



Nonsense. Everyone has always the right to stop an own military intervention from one second to the next second.


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## basquebromance (Sep 11, 2021)

"war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous" - George Orwell


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## SweetSue92 (Sep 11, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> Your war killed 150,000 Afghans, more than 50,000 of them Taliban soldiers, and you still didn't stop them, and you didn't end them.  You killed more than 100,000 Iraqis in that war.  All you have done with your wars and you endless killings of civilians is to give more generations of Muslims reasons to hate the USA.
> 
> Donald Trump abandoned the Kurds, who were guarding 10,000 ISIS prisoners, in Syria.  10,000 ISIS fighters were released when the Kurds ran for their lives.  5000 more Taliban and ISIS fighters were released when the Afghan military collapsed after Donald Trump signed the country over to the Taliban.
> 
> In his final FUCK YOU to American, Trump released all of the terrorists you spent so much blood and treasure to neutralize.  And American military aggression killed 250,000 Muslims in Iraq and Syria in retaliation for 9/11 is not going to make the Muslim world think very much of you either.



We don't care what you think. Stay up north


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## SweetSue92 (Sep 11, 2021)

1. Biden's planned distraction with the vaccine mandates did not go as he planned and 

2. These bloodthirsty savages want Americans next, and I don't think they will be able to hold back. This will happen, and I don't think it will take long. And it will be Biden's final undoing. To make it clear: I hope it does not happen. No American should suffer for Biden's complete incompetence and evil


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## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> Your war killed 150,000 Afghans ...



Source for this number please. As far as I heard 69,000 people had been killed in total during this military intervention in Afghanistan.


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## Colin norris (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> If this really did happen then it is a heavy war crime. This means also the leadership of the Taliban is responsible for this antiquated cruel form of murder on reason to establish a new terror regime.



That's exactly how they maintain control. Fear. Antiquation means nothing to them.  They are animals and the sooner the obliterate ethemselves the better.


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## Colin norris (Sep 11, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> They are animals....but we have a duty to the people that helped us and now because of it has  put them and their families heads on the chopping block especially after that dipshit Biden gave the Taliban a list of all those that helped us and where they lived.
> 
> If you were in control, how would you have had them identified at the gate?
> The fact anyone was want g to leave would indicate a hatred of the Taliban.
> ...


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## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> That's exactly how they maintain control. Fear. Antiquation means nothing to them.  They are animals and the sooner the obliterate ethemselves the better.



Terror (= to create fear) is also a method of the USA - for example in secret torture prisons or in a concentration camp like Guantanamo, where as well the national laws of the USA for criminals but also the international laws for pows were not respected. To dehumanize human beings (=to call others "animals") is perhaps also always a first step to become a dehumanized being (an "animal") on the own.


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## SavannahMann (Sep 11, 2021)

ESDRAELON said:


> I don't see anyone saying anything like that.  The absolute chaos that occurred during the evacuation was unnecessary and anyone who says it was "inevitable" either doesn't have a clue about military matters or they're sold out political hacks.
> 
> It's very likely that this beheading will just be the first and what would you recommend if the next one is clearly identified as an American who was left behind?



In Iraq after Desert Storm we had troops galore in the Country. Then when it was time to withdraw we ran for the border. I know. I was driving the Hummer for our squad. 

We were told that any mechanical problems would have to be reported all the way to the Brigade Commander. Because we couldn’t leave anyone behind. Stragglers would be captured by the Iraqi Army who was moving in to put down the Kurd Revolt. 

Nobody knew what would happen. Everyone expected the Afghani Army to fight. The most pessimistic views expected them to hold out for a few months. Nobody expected Afghanistan to fall to the Taliban in days. 

It was inevitable. The Afghan Army wouldn’t fight for their own people. They wouldn’t fight for their own families. Many fled across the border to Turkmenistan. 

To claim that Trump would have gotten a different outcome is just asinine. If the Afghan Army wouldn’t fight for their own families what makes you think they would fight for a Foreign President who was abandoning them? 

So yes. The collapse was inevitable.


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## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

SavannahMann said:


> In Iraq after Desert Storm we had troops galore in the Country. Then when it was time to withdraw we ran for the border. I know. I was driving the Hummer for our squad.
> 
> We were told that any mechanical problems would have to be reported all the way to the Brigade Commander. Because we couldn’t leave anyone behind. Stragglers would be captured by the Iraqi Army who was moving in to put down the Kurd Revolt.
> 
> ...



Or with other words: the US-American idea soldiers and policemen need to know first of all how to use weapons and to give them weapons made not a big sense.


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## SavannahMann (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Or with other words: the US-American idea soldiers and policemen need to know first of all how to use weapons and to give them weapons made not a big sense.



The Afghan Army was trained. For nearly twenty years we trained them.


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## surada (Sep 11, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> Dragonlady The Middle East has been the world's butt hole for a thousand years. All they do is cause trouble for themselves and everyone else. The US would never have entered those countries if they weren't totally corrupt murderous barbarians.



LOLOL.. You have never lived in the ME, twerp.


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## Dragonlady (Sep 11, 2021)

MarathonMike said:


> Dragonlady The Middle East has been the world's butt hole for a thousand years. All they do is cause trouble for themselves and everyone else. The US would never have entered those countries if they weren't totally corrupt murderous barbarians.



You've never read history, have you Mike?  Europeans have been invading the "Holy Land" since King John and the Crusades.  Obviously they have failed miserably as stopping the expansion of the Muslim faith.  

As for who the "corrupt murderous barbarians" might be, there are 150,000 dead Afghans and 100,000 dead Syrians and from the US domination of Iran after WWII - 100,000 dead Iranians, whose families all have good and valid reasons for calling the USA the "Great Satan".  

You will never have peace, as long as you keep lashing out with wars at every turn.  The rest of the world considers you the most dangerous nation in the world.  Now you're banging the drums for war with China.

You've lost your way - bigly.


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## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

SavannahMann said:


> The Afghan Army was trained. For nearly twenty years we trained them.



25% deserters a year. After you paid not any longer the government of Afghanistan did not pay very well. They got no money since month - I heard some had not even enough to eat.

Even when a German expert said - after the Taliban had conquered Kundus they will be in Kabul in only some very few days your secret services "convinced" everyone this will need 30 days. And so our own German government made nothing to save our people. When it was much too late they started to react. I guess my father - he may rest in peace in the arms of god - had called our behavior: _"Idiocy on a high level of idiocy!" _The best would had been for Germany to leave Afghanistan when Donald Trump had been president of the USA.


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## surada (Sep 11, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> They are animals....but we have a duty to the people that helped us and now because of it has  put them and their families heads on the chopping block especially after that dipshit Biden gave the Taliban a list of all those that helped us and where they lived.
> 
> Secondly, by allowing the Taliban to do this---we have just told them that ALLAH wants them to attack the west next---muslims see us running as a sign from their god to kill westerners and especially americans now.   To stop terror attacks here--we should have stayed there executing with extreme prejudice any terrorists and their clerics.  That fucking biden is about have a bunch more of we americans killed.




What group carried out the beheadings?


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## ColonelAngus (Sep 11, 2021)

This will be ignored by the communist propaganda called the MSM.

If it was TRUMP who was POTUS?

CNN 24/7 and FRONT PAGE NYT for 100 straight days.


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## Death Angel (Sep 11, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> The entire administration is a mess.
> 
> Something has to give, this can't go on for another 3 1/2 years


I predict this mess will give us another Reagan, Trump, or better. The pendulum has swung so far left there must be a correction.  Hope it's the last nail in the coffin of the left


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## ColonelAngus (Sep 11, 2021)

Just think of these murders as abortions in the 100th trimester.


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## ColonelAngus (Sep 11, 2021)

More imporantly, before the Taliban execute these people……

….ARE THEY ALLOWED TO CHOOSE THEIR PRONOUNS?


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## maybelooking (Sep 11, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Trump should have exited and did this. If you think that would have worked why didn’t trump lure them out this way?
> 
> Trump also sent a lot of seals on high risk missions. We lost a lot of great men with trump in charge. It was time to cut and run. The taliban wanted to be seen as running us out.
> 
> It’s over. good riddance


My best friend is a SEAL.  Don't talk about things you simply don't understand.  Theres not a SEAL I have met who agrees with the way we left Afghanistan.  Theres also not a single one I know that wouldn't go back in a heart beat to do the job.  Politicians need to get out of the fucking way and let our people do what they do best.  We could end the terror problem in a matter of days if partisan hack politicians would stay the fuck out of it.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Taliban celebrate beheading of Afghan soldier in grisly video
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE — The Taliban beheaded an Afghan soldier, then chanted praise to their leader while holding the severed head of their victim by his hair in a video posted in a private Taliban chat room.
> ...



But the US attack on the Taliban was totally illegal, and we murdered and tortured tens of thousands.
Some people DO deserve to DIE for the crimes they and the US committed.

The way the US does it, by chopping people up with drones or whisking them off to Guantanamo for waterboarding, is far worse.
We are the war criminals, not the Taliban.
They did what they had to.
We were traitors and turned on our former allies, the Taliban.
Once they kicked out the Soviets, we did not need them anymore.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

maybelooking said:


> My best friend is a SEAL.  Don't talk about things you simply don't understand.  Theres not a SEAL I have met who agrees with the way we left Afghanistan.  Theres also not a single one I know that wouldn't go back in a heart beat to do the job.  Politicians need to get out of the fucking way and let our people do what they do best.  We could end the terror problem in a matter of days if partisan hack politicians would stay the fuck out of it.



That is foolish.
SEAL teams know nothing about politics, government, or law.
If not for foolish SEAL teams and that sort of military mentality where killing is the answer to everything, there never would have been a problem in Afghanistan to start with.
The Taliban were our allies when we wanted the Mujahedeen.
And we illegal turned on them, even though they were totally innocent.
Then we illegally murdered, captured, and tortured tens of thousands of them.
We were so cowardly that we did not even fight on the ground, but hired the Northern Alliance to do all the ground fighting.
We only fought from the air, because we knew the Taliban had no anti aircraft or planes.
What the entirely US military did was an immoral war crime, and most of the Pentagon should be in jail.


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## Coyote (Sep 11, 2021)

skye said:


> And Biden and his thugs applaud  the beheading.


Isn't that what Trump and his thugs after abandoning our allies in Syria?


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## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Honestly, who cares.  If you chose to live there after having 20 years to get out,
> Suffer the consequences.
> They've been cutting off heads forever.
> They are animals and it's no presidents fault.



Wrong.
Cutting off heads is demanded by the Quran because it is quickest and least painful.
What we do, waterboarding until they finally die from the stress, is the most barbaric acts in all of history.
We murdered the head of the Iraqi air force, by waterboarding him until his heart failed.

{..
*Abed Hamed Mowhoush* was an air vice-marshal believed to be in command of the transport, logistics and airlifting division of the Iraqi Air Force during the regime of Saddam Hussein immediately prior to the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, until his surrender to United States forces on 10 November 2003. He died on 26 November 2003 while in U.S. custody at the Al-Qaim detention facility approximately 200 miles (320 km) northwest of Baghdad, following a 16-day period of detention.

...

U.S. forces initially claimed that Mowhoush had been captured during a raid and that he had died of natural causes, but _The Washington Post_ later reported that he had given himself up in an effort to secure the release of his sons.[1] Four U.S. servicemen were arrested in October 2004 in connection with the killing.
...}


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## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Isn't that what Trump and his thugs after abandoning our allies in Syria?



We had no allies in Syria.
The only people fighting against Assad are al Qaeda, ISIS, or Turks.


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## busybee01 (Sep 11, 2021)

skye said:


> And Biden and his thugs applaud  the beheading.



You are the thugs. Racists like Stephen Miller prevented us from bringing our allies to the US. Shut your fucking mouth Nazi.


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## busybee01 (Sep 11, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> So we should have stayed? That’s you position? Or we should go back?



We should have stayed. We still hold Guantanamo against the wishes of the government.


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## busybee01 (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Biden is JUST AS GUILTY of their murders as the Taliban
> 
> Nobody will ever trust America again and neither should they



Trump signed the surrender document. Trump's racist administration refused to evacuate our allies. If Biden is guilty so is Trump.


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## maybelooking (Sep 11, 2021)

busybee01 said:


> You are the thugs. Racists like Stephen Miller prevented us from bringing our allies to the US. Shut your fucking mouth Nazi.


ahhh the race card.  so predictable.


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## busybee01 (Sep 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> We had no allies in Syria.
> The only people fighting against Assad are al Qaeda, ISIS, or Turks.



Untrue. There were Syrians fighting the Assad regime as well. Trump abandoned the Kurds.


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## maybelooking (Sep 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> That is foolish.
> SEAL teams know nothing about politics, government, or law.
> If not for foolish SEAL teams and that sort of military mentality where killing is the answer to everything, there never would have been a problem in Afghanistan to start with.
> The Taliban were our allies when we wanted the Mujahedeen.
> ...



POLITICS is what has caused this entire mess.  SEALs don't need to know about politics.  They just need to go wreck ship and solve the problem.  They can.  Politicians won't let them.  The rest of that tripe isn't worth a response.


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## busybee01 (Sep 11, 2021)

maybelooking said:


> ahhh the race card.  so predictable.



Especially when it is true. Miller even admits he did it.


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## SassyIrishLass (Sep 11, 2021)

surada said:


> What group carried out the beheadings?



Muslims


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## CrusaderFrank (Sep 11, 2021)

SavannahMann said:


> So we should go back into Afghanistan and again take over the country and again put a Sectarian Government in power?



Please GFY with a Giant Saguaro


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## busybee01 (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> I predict this mess will give us another Reagan, Trump, or better. The pendulum has swung so far left there must be a correction.  Hope it's the last nail in the coffin of the left



Ronald Reagan would never be a Trump supporter. Ronald Reagan refused to reach out to Trump even though his aides urged him to do so. It shows what a great judge of character Ronald Reagan was especially when you are dealing with someone like Trump that has no character.


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## surada (Sep 11, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Muslims



LOLOL.. Muslims hate ISIS and other terrorist groups because they suffer the most at their hands.


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## surada (Sep 11, 2021)

busybee01 said:


> Untrue. There were Syrians fighting the Assad regime as well. Trump abandoned the Kurds.



Yes, the Syrians were fighting Assad.. The arrest and torture of the schoolboys was the last straw.


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## SavannahMann (Sep 11, 2021)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Please GFY with a Giant Saguaro



I don’t understand. If what is happening is awful, unendurable, an insult to our troops and nation and whatever else. shouldn’t we go back in and intervene? If we aren’t, then harping on the atrocities is what? Posturing for political points? Isn’t that bad too?


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## SassyIrishLass (Sep 11, 2021)

surada said:


> LOLOL.. Muslims hate ISIS and other terrorist groups because they suffer the most at their hands.



Uhm ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc....all Muslims

Try again, Muslim


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## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

busybee01 said:


> You are the thugs. Racists like Stephen Miller prevented us from bringing our allies to the US. Shut your fucking mouth Nazi.



Those in Afghanistan who did what we paid them to do are not our allies, but our henchmen.
Like those who presided as interpreters are torture sessions.
They should not be brought to the US, but prosecuted instead.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

busybee01 said:


> Untrue. There were Syrians fighting the Assad regime as well. Trump abandoned the Kurds.



The Syrians originally did not like Assad because he was a Shiite minority and most Syrians are Sunni, but quickly radicals like al Qaeda and ISIS got involved in the Sunni side, and the Sunni dropped out of the fight.
The Sunni prefer Assad to al Qaeda and ISIS.
There is no one of any standing fighting Assad any more.


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## surada (Sep 11, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Uhm ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc....all Muslims
> 
> Try again, Muslim



Oh I'm not Muslim. My heritage is Irish and Dutch but my family has been here since the early 1600s. I am Episcopalian , but was raised in a Protestant non denominational fellowship in Arabia. 

You are fairly normal.. Ignorant and hating what you know nothing about .. making accusations..

I have been to Ireland a couple of times in the 1950s.. My God, they were poor.


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> So we should have stayed? That’s you position? Or we should go back?


yes we should have stayed…i thought that was obvious by now 

we will sadly have to go back at some point…hopefully not with Xiden Harris and the dembots there to f it up


----------



## surada (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> yes we should have stayed…i thought that was obvious by now
> 
> we will sadly have to go back at some point…hopefully not with Xiden Harris and the dembots there to f it up



Why don't YOU go to Afghanistan?


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

surada said:


> Why don't YOU go to Afghanistan?


too old for the service now. 

we have trips in japan, and germany…why was keeping an air base in afghan with 2500 troops so offense to you?  because they are brown?


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Uhm ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc....all Muslims
> 
> Try again, Muslim


Sunni Man Care to comment?


----------



## Death Angel (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> too old for the service now.
> 
> we have trips in japan, and germany…why was keeping an air base in afghan with 2500 troops so offense to you?  because they are brown?


And dont forget Korea.  There was "peace" and not war there while we were there.


----------



## Death Angel (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Sunni Man Care to comment?


Sunni Man is MUCH more American than you. And a better "Christian " than you too


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> yes we should have stayed…i thought that was obvious by now
> 
> we will sadly have to go back at some point…hopefully not with Xiden Harris and the dembots there to f it up



Staying would never have worked and would be the opposite of a democracy.
The Taliban either are or have the support of the vast majority.
What we want just is not what most Afghans want, and we are evil for assuming it is.
We will never go back, and if we mistakenly did, then we would get defeated once again and leave again.
Their opposition will never go away, so they will always win, just like in Vietnam.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> too old for the service now.
> 
> we have trips in japan, and germany…why was keeping an air base in afghan with 2500 troops so offense to you?  because they are brown?



Its not our country and we have no right to be there, intimidating, assassinating, kidnapping, waterboarding, etc.


----------



## ColonelAngus (Sep 11, 2021)

Biden is the father of the Taliban military.

Biden gave the Taliban military weapons and hardware equal to 400% of the Afghan GDP.  

That would be like some nation giving the US $100 trillion of free weapons.

WAY TO GO JOE BIDEN!  You traitorous piece of shit.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Sunni Man is MUCH more American than you. And a better "Christian " than you too



I'm just curious how he feels about his religion being trashed again by the right. Or is he going to fall inline again.

He is probably a better "Christian" than me, since I'm not a hypocrite wingnut zealot which seems to be the definition of "Christian" around here.


----------



## Blaine Sweeter (Sep 11, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> Your war killed 150,000 Afghans, more than 50,000 of them Taliban soldiers, and you still didn't stop them, and you didn't end them.  You killed more than 100,000 Iraqis in that war.  All you have done with your wars and you endless killings of civilians is to give more generations of Muslims reasons to hate the USA.
> 
> Donald Trump abandoned the Kurds, who were guarding 10,000 ISIS prisoners, in Syria.  10,000 ISIS fighters were released when the Kurds ran for their lives.  5000 more Taliban and ISIS fighters were released when the Afghan military collapsed after Donald Trump signed the country over to the Taliban.
> 
> In his final FUCK YOU to American, Trump released all of the terrorists you spent so much blood and treasure to neutralize.  And American military aggression killed 250,000 Muslims in Iraq and Syria in retaliation for 9/11 is not going to make the Muslim world think very much of you either.



Spot on Dragonlady.  As usual, you have schooled these mouth-breathing, glazed-eyed idiots very well once again.


----------



## Blaine Sweeter (Sep 11, 2021)

All you assholes blaming Biden need to petition the Pentagon to go back into Afghanistan.  And then prep your darling children and grandchildren to go sign up and fight.


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Its not our country and we have no right to be there, intimidating, assassinating, kidnapping, waterboarding, etc.


Germany, and Japan aren’t our countries but we have bases there 

Just be honest…it’s because they are brown…that’s why you don’t care that terrorist took their country over, rape, torture and behead them


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> Germany, and Japan aren’t our countries but we have bases there
> 
> Just be honest…it’s because they are brown…that’s why you don’t care that terrorist took their country over, rape, torture and behead them


So we can get even more "brown" people killed? 

Germany and Japan are at peace and not in the middle of a multi-century civil war. They are our allies and our bases in their countries serve us strategically. It's not even close to the same thing.


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Staying would never have worked and would be the opposite of a democracy.
> The Taliban either are or have the support of the vast majority.
> What we want just is not what most Afghans want, and we are evil for assuming it is.
> We will never go back, and if we mistakenly did, then we would get defeated once again and leave again.
> Their opposition will never go away, so they will always win, just like in Vietnam.


Why wouldn't it of worked?  It worked in Germany and Japan....they have democracies as well.

Afghan actually is a much better strategic location.   

Can you show me this poll where the Taliban has the vast majority of support in that country?


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> So we can get even more "brown" people killed?
> 
> Germany and Japan are at peace and not in the middle of a multi-century civil war. They are our allies and our bases in their countries serve us strategically. It's not even close to the same thing.


They weren't at peace when we went there.....

How would we get more brown people killed?  Things were pretty much in check the last 14 months or so before Xiden surrendered. 

Do you have any idea what the Taliban is doing right now to it's fellow brown people?  Somethings worse then death


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> And dont forget Korea.  There was "peace" and not war there while we were there.



The only reason Korea was not a disaster as well is that sometime in the 1990s, the corrupt generals who were dictators, became honest, and willingly created a democracy the people liked.  I do not know why it happened, and you can't count on that ever happening again.
But it seems likely the credit should go to the Korean generals, not the US.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> Why wouldn't it of worked?  It worked in Germany and Japan....they have democracies as well.
> 
> Afghan actually is a much better strategic location.
> 
> Can you show me this poll where the Taliban has the vast majority of support in that country?



Germany was always democratic.  They were democratic before the American Revolution.
Japan found democracy as a way of saving face.

The Taliban are a democracy.
They have the vast popular support of the people, or else they would no longer have existed by now.
The majority of the Afghans hated our illegal invasion.
The only thing the Afghans liked was our money.


----------



## Death Angel (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> since I'm not a hypocrite wingnut zealot


Of course you are. You're just blind to your own bigotry, as are all leftists.

And, for the record, I agree with Churchill on Islam


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> They weren't at peace when we went there.....



They were never at peace when we were there either. A lot of collateral damage. ("were", such a nice word)



struth said:


> How would we get more brown people killed?  Things were pretty much in check the last 14 months or so before Xiden surrendered.



Most of the country was either under Taliban control or contested by the time we left. We were down to what, 2,500 troops?



struth said:


> Do you have any idea what the Taliban is doing right now to it's fellow brown people?  Somethings worse then death



Probably some pretty bad things. The Chinese, Russians, Cubans, Iranians, North Koreans, several African countries and others are all hurting their citizens too.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> Of course you are. You're just blind to your own bigotry, as are all leftists.



What have I been hypocritical about?



Death Angel said:


> And, for the record, I agree with Churchill on Islam


I don't care.


----------



## Death Angel (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> What have I been hypocritical about?
> 
> 
> I don't care.


 “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Germany was always democratic.  They were democratic before the American Revolution.
> Japan found democracy as a way of saving face.
> 
> The Taliban are a democracy.
> ...


So what you are saying is us having a base there hasn't made them undemocratic?  Thanks 

Can you show me these polls about the Taliban you are claiming?


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”


Yes, I'm aware of the quote. 

Fanatics of any religion tend to ruin it for everyone else. Including Christianity. 

Now, where have I been a hypocrite?


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> They were never at peace when we were there either. A lot of collateral damage. ("were", such a nice word)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1) no doubt the Taliban was a threat when we were there. 
2) yes, Trump was able to take most all our troops out and keep them safe, and aid the Govt of Afghan.  Amazing really...in comparison to what Xiden did...
3) so true.   Horrible regimes...


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> They weren't at peace when we went there.....
> 
> How would we get more brown people killed?  Things were pretty much in check the last 14 months or so before Xiden surrendered.
> 
> Do you have any idea what the Taliban is doing right now to it's fellow brown people?  Somethings worse then death



The only reason there was not peace in Afghanistan when we invaded, was that the Soviets were arming the Northern Alliance, in order to harm the Taliban.
What is so weird is that we took the Russian side by supporting the Northern Alliance.

And NO, we never had anything "in check".
We simply were murdering the Taliban fast enough so they could not retake anything.
And no, Afghanistan has much less murder now than when we were constantly bombing and killing.


----------



## basquebromance (Sep 11, 2021)

Biden would lose a fight to your 4 year old red-headed stepsister

we need a fighter like Trump in the White House, folks!


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The only reason there was not peace in Afghanistan when we invaded, was that the Soviets were arming the Northern Alliance, in order to harm the Taliban.
> What is so weird is that we took the Russian side by supporting the Northern Alliance.
> 
> And NO, we never had anything "in check".
> ...


what’s weird about that?the taliban was aiding and giving comfort to terrorist 

yea we keep things in check.  we help keep the terrorist at bay, with the afghan army…


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> no doubt the Taliban was a threat when we were there
> 2) yes, Trump was able to take most all our troops out and keep them safe, and aid the Govt of Afghan.  Amazing really...in comparison to what Xiden did...
> 3) so true.   Horrible regimes...


We agreed to leave Afghanistan under Trump. If we didn't leave then we'd have to move troops back into country and spend trillions more to defend the Afghan government who couldn't even defend themselves for more than 10 days after building up their army for 2 decades.

I doubt you really care about the people of Afghanistan, you sure didn't care about the Kurds when we stopped protecting them. It didn't go well for the Kurds. We didn't supply a single airplane to help them get out either. But that was back in 2019 when you most likely didn't give a shit.


----------



## Death Angel (Sep 11, 2021)

basquebromance said:


> Biden would lose a fight to your 4 year old red-headed stepsister
> 
> we need a fighter like Trump in the White House, folks!


I know you'll throw out the opposite opinion tomorrow,  but I agree today


----------



## Colin norris (Sep 11, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Cutting off heads is demanded by the Quran because it is quickest and least painful.
> What we do, waterboarding until they finally die from the stress, is the most barbaric acts in all of history.
> We murdered the head of the Iraqi air force, by waterboarding him until his heart failed.
> ...



Oh how merciful of you.  I didn't know the understanding of which death is preferably meant so much to you.  How Christian of you. 
I don't care how they kill themselves.  I want it all done with haste and to blame Biden is ridiculous.


----------



## Dragonlady (Sep 11, 2021)

ColonelAngus said:


> This will be ignored by the communist propaganda called the MSM.
> 
> If it was TRUMP who was POTUS?
> 
> CNN 24/7 and FRONT PAGE NYT for 100 straight days.



The moment you call the mainstream media "communist propaganda, which unlike the lying, billionaire owned, right wing media, actually subscribes to journalistic standards and isn't the  propaganda arm of the Republican Party, the less believable the rest of your post becomes 

CNN,


struth said:


> Germany, and Japan aren’t our countries but we have bases there
> 
> Just be honest…it’s because they are brown…that’s why you don’t care that terrorist took their country over, rape, torture and behead them



Suddenly you care about brown people in shithole countries????  That a big change for the redneck right.


----------



## Dragonlady (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> Why wouldn't it of worked?  It worked in Germany and Japan....they have democracies as well.
> 
> Afghan actually is a much better strategic location.
> 
> Can you show me this poll where the Taliban has the vast majority of support in that country?



It's really hard to poll people in Third World Countries, what with the lack of phones, internet, or other modern conveniences out in the desert, or in the mountain caves.


----------



## JWBooth (Sep 11, 2021)

Collaboration with a defeated invader has an expensive price


----------



## Issa (Sep 11, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Taliban celebrate beheading of Afghan soldier in grisly video
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE — The Taliban beheaded an Afghan soldier, then chanted praise to their leader while holding the severed head of their victim by his hair in a video posted in a private Taliban chat room.
> ...


Funny how racist cons now wanna tell us they love muslims lol.


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> It's really hard to poll people in Third World Countries, what with the lack of phones, internet, or other modern conveniences out in the desert, or in the mountain caves.


so he basically made it up


----------



## struth (Sep 11, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> The moment you call the mainstream media "communist propaganda, which unlike the lying, billionaire owned, right wing media, actually subscribes to journalistic standards and isn't the  propaganda arm of the Republican Party, the less believable the rest of your post becomes
> 
> CNN,
> 
> ...


not for anyone i know.  Apparently though it’s still not a problem for the left


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Sep 11, 2021)

skye said:


> And Biden and his thugs applaud  the beheading.


Bloodthirsty savages.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Sep 11, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> I heard once that the real reason we are fighting with the Arabs is they wont Buy into our way of banking. Debt, interest, credit card,


Of course!  They're not into usury, God forbid!


----------



## Death Angel (Sep 11, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.
> 
> This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.


I've said this before. While we had an actual FIGHTING MILITARY there, we should have taken any Taliban sympathizers from their hovels and shot them in the town square.

What do you think is happening to any who worked with the Americans right now? Weve sentence them to brutal torture and death because of Biden's incompetence


----------



## Turtlesoup (Sep 11, 2021)

I would have bombed the taliban as they crossed the dessert and went back using drones and snipers to take out their heads and clerics.  I would have never letting it gotten to the gate hun...I would have used to annihilate and send a message to terrorists.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Sep 11, 2021)

Death Angel said:


> I've said this before. While we had an actual FIGHTING MILITARY there, we should have taken any Taliban sympathizers from their hovels and shot them in the town square.
> 
> What do you think is happening to any who worked with the Americans right now? Weve sentence them to brutal torture and death because of Biden's incompetence


Exactly we should have treated them as they treat everyone else.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> So we can get even more "brown" people killed?
> 
> Germany and Japan are at peace



Yes - and the last and only war between Germany and Japan was also relativelly peaceful.



HappyJoy said:


> and not in the middle of a multi-century civil war. They are our allies and our bases in their countries serve us strategically. It's not even close to the same thing.



Oh by the way: The situation under Trump in the USA convinced me that it will be better your soldiers will leave Germany. Don't forget to take your nukes with you when you will leave us.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Yes - and the last and only war betwnen Germany and Japan was also relativelly peaceful.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh by the way: The situation under Trump in the USA convinced me that it will be better your soldiers will leave Germany. Don't forget to take your nukes with you when you will leave Germany.



It's not really my decision but pretty sure the German government doesn't mind. You should convince them otherwise.


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Yes - and the last and only war between Germany and Japan was also relativelly peaceful.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh by the way: The situation under Trump in the USA convinced me that it will be better your soldiers will leave Germany. Don't forget to take your nukes with you when you will leave us.


The US can leave Germany now that they don't take more Muslims refugees.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Sep 11, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> I heard once that the real reason we are fighting with the Arabs is they wont Buy into our way of banking. Debt, interest, credit card,


The real reason we fight Arabs is the same reason we have always fought Arabs.  They want Islam as the only religion and sharia the only law.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> It's not really my decision but pretty sure the German government doesn't mind. You should convince them otherwise.



Government? We have an own government?  Since when? When did Afghan hords overstep the German border? When did the Tuareg from Mali attack us? So why were German soldiers in Asia (Afghanistan) and why they are in Africa (Mali)?  Where for damned sake is the North Atlantic? Where for damned sake is Germany?

And if our politicians don't see the wide spread and deep hate against Germany from the most people of  the USA - which exists without any reason - then they are not only blind. You are not able to defend what you hate.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Government? We have an own government?  Since when? When did Afghan hords overstep the German border? When did the Tuarag from Mali attack us? So why were German soldiers in Asia (Afganistan) and why they aer in Africa (Mali)?  Where for damned sake is the North Atlantic? Where for damned sake is Germany?
> 
> And if our politicians don't see the wide spread and deep hate against Germany from the most people of  the USA - which exists without any reason - then they are not only blind. You are not able to defend what you hate.


Keep smokin' 'em.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> The real reason we fight Arabs is the same reason we have always fought Arabs.



When and where did you fight Arabs? You support them since about 200 years, isn't it?



Tipsycatlover said:


> They want Islam as the only religion and sharia the only law.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Keep smokin' 'em.



Whatever. Take your soldiers - leave Germany.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> The US can leave Germany now that they don't take more Muslims refugees.


?


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> ?


I see you don't read Reuters or AP News.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Sep 11, 2021)

surada said:


> Oh I'm not Muslim. My heritage is Irish and Dutch but my family has been here since the early 1600s. I am Episcopalian , but was raised in a Protestant non denominational fellowship in Arabia.
> 
> You are fairly normal.. Ignorant and hating what you know nothing about .. making accusations..
> 
> I have been to Ireland a couple of times in the 1950s.. My God, they were poor.



You're a goddamn liar...  If the Irish were poor blame the brown coats

You think yourself clever? Figure that out, Muzz


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Whatever. Take your soldiers - leave Germany.


It's not up to me.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> I see you don't read Reuters or AP News.


Aha. And that explains now what you say on what reason? How?


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> It's not up to me.



Take your soldiers. Leave Germany. You are the boss of the USA - together with some others.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Take your soldiers. Leave Germany. You are the boss of the USA - together with some others.


I am kind of a boss. Thanks.


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Aha. And that explains now what you say on what reason? How?


I posted a story that was carried about a week ago on AP News, Reuters and BBC.
If you read them on a daily basis you wouldn't post what you post.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> I am kind of a boss. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 538110



Crew member at McDonald's?


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Crew member at McDonald's?



Hey lady, I get a free meal at the end of every shift plus the uniform was free so take that.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Hey lady, I get a free meal at the end of every shift plus the uniform was free so take that.



Oooh, benefits suited for what you are


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Oooh, benefits suited for what you are



If I show up for work  before they open I can also get a half hour of me time on the indoor playground.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> I am kind of a boss. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 538110



Charles Schulz was for sure not a reason why US-Americans hate Germany.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Charles Schulz was for sure not a reason why US-Americans hate Germany.


Well, Charlie Brown had his moments that reminded us of you know who.





They've pulled it since but I distinctly remember watching _Have a Happy Reichstag fire, Charlie Brown_.


----------



## Dragonlady (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> not for anyone i know.  Apparently though it’s still not a problem for the left



Of course.  All the people you know are happy to believe lies, propaganda and hate put out by the right wing billionaire media.  That's why Americans who watched right wing media know less about the news and current events than people who don't follow the news.  At least those people aren't being lied to on a daily basis.

People on the right refuse to watch news they disagree with or don't like.  For example, when FOX News called the Arizona election for Joe Biden, many FOX viewer changed the channel because they refused to hear that Trump lost.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> I posted a story that was carried about a week ago on AP News, Reuters and BBC.
> If you read them on a daily basis you wouldn't post what you post.



Which story did you post where?


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Which story did you post where?


I didn't state that I posted it.
I'm simply pointing out that you should check out these 3 news sites for a few minutes every day.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> I didn't state that I posted it.
> I'm simply pointing out that you should check out these 3 news sites for a few minutes every day.



An interesting way to avoid to say what you say on what reason.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Well, Charlie Brown had his moments that reminded us of you know who.
> 
> View attachment 538111
> 
> They've pulled it since but I distinctly remember watching _Have a Happy Reichstag fire, Charlie Brown_.



That's exactly what I say: You hate Germany without any reason to have to do so. Never Germany in all history did do anything bad to the USA - but you wasted Germany much more than any other country of the world ever did do. And because you destroyed and destroy us you hate us. So it makes not any sense any longer that US-soldiers are still in Germany.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 11, 2021)

struth said:


> So what you are saying is us having a base there hasn't made them undemocratic?  Thanks
> 
> Can you show me these polls about the Taliban you are claiming?



Its is obvious that the US having a base in Afghanistan was an attempt to make them undemocratic.
We were murdering, kidnapping, torturing, bribing, etc.
And the fact the Taliban are wildly popular is obvious.
Without air support, they won.
That could not possibly have happened unless they were wildly popular with the people.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> That's exactly what I say: You hate Germany without any reason to have to do so. Never Germany in all history did do anything bad to the USA - but you wasted Germany much more than any other country of the world ever did do. And because you destroyed and destroy us you hate us. So it makes not any sense any longer that US-soldiers are still in Germany.


Actually I have nothing against Germany, but don't give this shit how we did you wrong in WWII.


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> An interesting way to avoid to say what you say on what reason.


Are you retarded?
When's the last time you checked out any of these news sources?


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> Are you retarded?
> When's the last time you checked out any of these news sources?



Why said you _"The US can leave Germany now that they don't take more Muslims refugees."_ What means this sentence? Sounds stupid in my ears.


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Why said you _"The US can leave Germany now that they don't take more Muslims refugees."_ What means this sentence?


What do you think it means?
Germany's biggest problem is the Muslim invasion and Germany has learned it's lesson.
If you spent 10 minutes a day pulling your head out of your rear end and reading the news, perhaps you'd know this also.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Actually I have nothing against Germany,



What's wrong.



HappyJoy said:


> but don't give this shit how we did you wrong in WWII.



You and your allies destroyed Germany in world war 1+2. You reduced it to rubble and minimized the territory of Germany. You and your allies murdered and displaced millions of Germans by doing war crimes. You sold a big part of Europe to the Soviets. ... And you expect to be loved for this all ... Strange.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 11, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> What do you think it means?
> Germany's biggest problem is the Muslim invasion







Indeependent said:


> and Germany has learned it's lesson.



?



Indeependent said:


> If you spent 10 minutes a day pulling your head out of your rear end and reading the news, perhaps you'd know this also.



Why should I read English news about Germany?


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 11, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> What's wrong.



I don't know, what is wrong? Just an fyi, the Charlie Brown thing was a joke, nothing more.


zaangalewa said:


> You and your allies destroyed Germany in world war 1+2. You reduced it to rubble and minimized the territory of Germany. You and your allies murdered and displaced millions of Germans by doing war crimes. You sold a big part of Europe to the Soviets. ... And you expect to be loved for this all ... Strange.



Maybe if you guys hadn't of double crossed Russia things would be a little different. But you did. You were run by a fascist government and you teamed up with other fascist governments, sorry, the entire fucking world didn't want Germany to ever comeback as a whole. However, with our help Germany rebuilt itself into the largest economy in Europe. You're welcome.

About the displacing of millions of Germans and this may be a little awkward but WTF? You got balls. 

Apologies about the first war however there weren't many good guys on either side.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Actually I have nothing against Germany, but don't give this shit how we did you wrong in WWII.



The wrong was done in WWI.
We picked the totally wrong side that was the side guilty of assassinations of Archduke Ferdinand and his wife, of illegally using starvation against the civilian German population, and then stealing all sorts of German territory, assets, money, ships, colonies, etc.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Sep 12, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> I am kind of a boss. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 538110


Maybe in your dreams...


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> I don't know, what is wrong? Just an fyi, the Charlie Brown thing was a joke, nothing more.



To make caricatures about the noses of Jews was also only a "joke" of the Nazi-newspaper "Der Stürmer".



HappyJoy said:


> Maybe if you guys hadn't of double crossed Russia



Double crossed? What is this? Russia was under the slavery of the Soviet Stalin, your ally.



HappyJoy said:


> things would be a little different. But you did.



Sorry - but in reality as well Hitler and your ally Stalin together started world war 2 by deciding to eliminate Poland again in the secret part of the Molotow-Ribbentrop pact.



HappyJoy said:


> You were run by a fascist government



A good reason to throw a bomb into the living room of Mrs. Miller because the Nazis had mudered her husband.




HappyJoy said:


> and you teamed up with other fascist governments, sorry, the entire fucking world didn't want Germany to ever comeback as a whole.



That's why "the entire world" decided that the Germans of the year 1913 have today a half descendant and will die out within the next 100, 200 or 300 years - while "the entire world" decided that every Palestinian of the year 1864 has today 15 descendents, so the USA is able to live in the luxary to live in fear of migrants?



HappyJoy said:


> However, with our help



Which help?



HappyJoy said:


> Germany rebuilt itself into the largest economy in Europe. You're welcome.



We are welcome in the USA? Thought we are criminals who sell not drugs but goods in the USA.



HappyJoy said:


> About the displacing of millions of Germans and this may be a little awkward but WTF? You got balls.



You wiped out the SiIesians, the Bohemians and others whose first ancestors had often lived since decades of thousands of years in this area of the world and you call this "WTF" = ¿who cares"?



HappyJoy said:


> Apologies about the first war however there weren't many good guys on either side.



The only good German you ever saw was dead, isn't it? In the 19th century German actors travelled to the USA and gave there performances in the German language. You wiped out not only German cultures in Europe - you also wiped out the German culture in the USA - and since some years you started to wipe out all relations to the rest of Germany which still survived.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.
> 
> This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.


Correct, dealing with terrorists with the naughty step treatment per the Geneva Convention doesn't work. As soon as they can grab a gun or knife, you're dead. All terrorists should exterminated, hunted out and shot. And as you say, when the Taliban came galloping across to take over, they should have been blasted off the map.

The right time to leave the likes of Afghanistan is when they have an army and security force in place where they can look after themselves.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Its is obvious that the US having a base in Afghanistan was an attempt to make them undemocratic.
> We were murdering, kidnapping, torturing, bribing, etc.
> And the fact the Taliban are wildly popular is obvious.
> Without air support, they won.
> That could not possibly have happened unless they were wildly popular with the people.


show the the evidence they were wildly popular? how much if the women vote did they get?

speaking of democratic, how many votes did they get?


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Dragonlady said:


> Of course.  All the people you know are happy to believe lies, propaganda and hate put out by the right wing billionaire media.  That's why Americans who watched right wing media know less about the news and current events than people who don't follow the news.  At least those people aren't being lied to on a daily basis.
> 
> People on the right refuse to watch news they disagree with or don't like.  For example, when FOX News called the Arizona election for Joe Biden, many FOX viewer changed the channel because they refused to hear that Trump lost.


your post seem to suggest that you as a code must cultist know less about the news then anyone i ever met


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> You're a goddamn liar...  If the Irish were poor blame the brown coats
> 
> You think yourself clever? Figure that out, Muzz



You are terminally stupid.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> show the the evidence they were wildly popular? how much if the women vote did they get?
> 
> speaking of democratic, how many votes did they get?



Do you know what was going on in Afghanistan from 1989 to 1994 when the war orphans came to power?


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> Do you know what was going on in Afghanistan from 1989 to 1994 when the war orphans came to power?


so you can’t show me evidence they were wildly popular in 2021 when xiden pulled his midnight run?


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

Captain Caveman said:


> Correct, dealing with terrorists with the naughty step treatment per the Geneva Convention doesn't work. As soon as they can grab a gun or knife, you're dead. All terrorists should exterminated, hunted out and shot.



That's a public call for mass-murder - or with other words: a crime.



Captain Caveman said:


> And as you say, when the Taliban came galloping across to take over, they should have been blasted off the map.
> 
> The right time to leave the likes of Afghanistan is when they have an army and security force in place where they can look after themselves.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> That's a public call for mass-murder - or with other words: a crime.


can you provide the criminal code section that says that it’s a crime to say that terrorist should be killed?


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> What do you think it means?
> Germany's biggest problem is the Muslim invasion and Germany has learned it's lesson.
> If you spent 10 minutes a day pulling your head out of your rear end and reading the news, perhaps you'd know this also.



There would be no Muslim invasion of war refugees if not for the invasion of Iraq and the spawning of ISIS in 2004.

You should realize what a problem refugee populations are. Look at the issues surrounding the Jewish refugees before and after WW2. Look at the problems of the Palestinian refugees forced out of Israel in 1948 and 1967.


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> There would be no Muslim invasion of war refugees if not for the invasion of Iraq and the spawning of ISIS in 2004.
> 
> You should realize what a problem refugee populations are. Look at the issues surrounding the Jewish refugees before and after WW2. Look at the problems of the Palestinian refugees forced out of Israel in 1948 and 1967.


You also don’t check out these news sites.
Muslims don’t need non-Muslims as an excuse to murder each other.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Maybe in your dreams...


Oof, good one.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> To make caricatures about the noses of Jews was also only a "joke" of the Nazi-newspaper "Der Stürmer".



It's a good thing I didn't do anything that offensive. 



zaangalewa said:


> Double crossed? What is this? Russia was under the slavery of the Soviet Stalin, your ally.



Yeah, there was this thing called the Nazi-Soviet non aggression pact that Hitler broke. Why? Dumbest move Germany made during the war. 



zaangalewa said:


> Sorry - but in reality as well Hitler and your ally Stalin together started world war 2 by deciding to eliminate Poland again in the secret part of the Molotow-Ribbentrop pact.



The USSR at the time wasn't a disease spreading across the continent like the Nazis were so we didn't have much of a choice in allys. 



zaangalewa said:


> A good reason to throw a bomb into the living room of Mrs. Miller because the Nazis had mudered her husband.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, touchy.


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> If Trump would have done this, he would have been accused of genocide and war crimes...cause lord forbid if the US takes out poor wittle misunderstood terrorists with a republicans in...


So don expect biden to do it either. You don’t think republicans form their opinions based on who’s in charge? flip flop


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> can you provide the criminal code section that says that it’s a crime to say that terrorist should be killed?



A crime here in Germany.  The public call for a violent solution of a problem is in Germany a crime. Reason: That's terrorism.


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 12, 2021)

maybelooking said:


> My best friend is a SEAL.  Don't talk about things you simply don't understand.  Theres not a SEAL I have met who agrees with the way we left Afghanistan.  Theres also not a single one I know that wouldn't go back in a heart beat to do the job.  Politicians need to get out of the fucking way and let our people do what they do best.  We could end the terror problem in a matter of days if partisan hack politicians would stay the fuck out of it.


Probably true.


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 12, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> The real reason we fight Arabs is the same reason we have always fought Arabs.  They want Islam as the only religion and sharia the only law.


What do we care?


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> can you provide the criminal code section that says that it’s a crime to say that terrorist should be killed?


A doctor went to a school meeting with parents to explain how serious this COVID is and why masks are important. The republicans yelled at the doctor, “we know where you live”

You guys politicize everything.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

maybelooking said:


> My best friend is a SEAL.  Don't talk about things you simply don't understand.  Theres not a SEAL I have met who agrees with the way we left Afghanistan.  Theres also not a single one I know that wouldn't go back in a heart beat to do the job.  Politicians need to get out of the fucking way and let our people do what they do best.  We could end the terror problem in a matter of days if partisan hack politicians would stay the fuck out of it.



Our  Seals are heroes. They weren't fighting for ENRON.



			Context of '1996-September 11, 2001: Enron Gives Taliban Millions in Bribes in Effort to Get Afghan Pipeline Built'
		



1996-September 11, 2001: Enron Gives Taliban Millions in Bribes in Effort to Get Afghan Pipeline Built The Associated Press will later report that the Enron corporation bribes Taliban officials as part of a “no-holds-barred bid to strike a deal for an energy pipeline in Afghanistan.”


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> The real reason we fight Arabs is the same reason we have always fought Arabs.  They want Islam as the only religion and sharia the only law.



LOL.. You're braainwashed.

1996-September 11, 2001: Enron Gives Taliban Millions in Bribes in Effort to Get Afghan Pipeline Built The Associated Press will later report that the Enron corporation bribes Taliban officials as part of a “no-holds-barred bid to strike a deal for an energy pipeline in Afghanistan.”


----------



## maybelooking (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> LOL.. You're braainwashed.
> 
> 1996-September 11, 2001: Enron Gives Taliban Millions in Bribes in Effort to Get Afghan Pipeline Built The Associated Press will later report that the Enron corporation bribes Taliban officials as part of a “no-holds-barred bid to strike a deal for an energy pipeline in Afghanistan.”


you don't think there can be multiple reasons?

talk about brainwashed.


----------



## AntonToo (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.


Lol. Was that the Trump plan as he negotiated with Taliban American withdrawal and their take over?

He was gonna ambush them with 2500 troops, kick their ass with zero casualties and fly everyone out, leaving Afghanistan a Taliban-free unicorn and rainbow land.

Right dummy? Is that how the story goes in your head?


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

maybelooking said:


> you don't think there can be multiple reasons?
> 
> talk about brainwashed.



What did you want in Afghanistan? Did you want to reinvent them as the USA?

Did you want their natural resources?

Did you want to convert them to Christianity or sell them Burger King Franchises?



			Context of '1996-September 11, 2001: Enron Gives Taliban Millions in Bribes in Effort to Get Afghan Pipeline Built'
		



1996-September 11, 2001: Enron Gives Taliban Millions in Bribes in Effort to Get Afghan Pipeline Built The Associated Press will later report that the Enron corporation bribes Taliban officials as part of a “no-holds-barred bid to strike a deal for an energy pipeline in Afghanistan.”


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.
> 
> This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.


Just remember when Obama went after terrorists wherever they were you guys accused him of starting new wars.


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 12, 2021)

antontoo said:


> Lol. Was that the Trump plan when he negotiated with Taliban American withdrawal and their take over?


How do we blow them up if we aren’t there anymore?

Any American still in Afghanistan is an idiot or terrorist. Do we want them back?


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> Just remember when Obama went after terrorists wherever they were you guys accused him of starting new wars.


 
Well, our guys finally got OBL when Obama was president so that was a good thing.

I think Bush sort of forgot about OBL.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Sep 12, 2021)

Captain Caveman said:


> Correct, dealing with terrorists with the naughty step treatment per the Geneva Convention doesn't work. As soon as they can grab a gun or knife, you're dead. All terrorists should exterminated, hunted out and shot. And as you say, when the Taliban came galloping across to take over, they should have been blasted off the map.
> 
> The right time to leave the likes of Afghanistan is when they have an army and security force in place where they can look after themselves.


I can't help but feel if we had bombed the taliban army with their fellow terrorists and foreign help going across the desert, afghan could have handled things even as they were.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Sep 12, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> What do we care?


Because they come here with that goal in mind.  Muslims have made a mess in Europe.  Our politicians want it here.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> The real reason we fight Arabs is the same reason we have always fought Arabs.  They want Islam as the only religion and sharia the only law.



Wrong.
The Quran is clear that there can never be any compulsion over religion, and that both Christianity and Judaism are "Brother of the Book", and are valid ways to heaven.
All 3 monotheistic religions share the same Old Testament.

Moslems NEVER try to expand or convert anyone, ever.
What they want is just to not have foreign value systems imposed upon them by force.
And the advantage of Islam over all other religions is that it is the only one that implements social welfare systems built in, like for orphans and widows.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> I can't help but feel if we had bombed the taliban army with their fellow terrorists and foreign help going across the desert, afghan could have handled things even as they were.



Nope.. Afghanistan was never a country.. just tribes. Every warlord wants his own fiefdom. The Taliban are probably the best bet since the Communists overthrew the Monarchy in 1974.

We just want to kill them because ENRON paid them millions in bribes and then didn't get their pipeline.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Because they come here with that goal in mind.  Muslims have made a mess in Europe.  Our politicians want it here.



Nope.. When Muslims are in a foreign country they are supposed to abide by that country's laws. If that is too difficult they are supposed to leave.

Your ignorance creates a lot of unnecessary fear and hatred.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> When and where did you fight Arabs? You support them since about 200 years, isn't it?



It was more England and France than the US, but clearly we own the Arabs and are trying to keep it that way, while some Arabs are trying to break free from us.
Like WWI, where France and England just divided up the Mideast east into their colonies.
The US certainly was responsible for ending the democracy in Iran in 1953.
We killed Saddam and Qaddafi, wanted to kill Assad, and deposed Morsi.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> I can't help but feel if we had bombed the taliban army with their fellow terrorists and foreign help going across the desert, afghan could have handled things even as they were.



We had been illegally murdering innocent Afghans by bombing them for over 20 years, and all that did was make the Taliban more popular, and make us more hated.
You can never get people to like you by bombing them.
You should have learned that from Vietnam.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> It was more England and France than the US, but clearly we own the Arabs and are trying to keep it that way, while some Arabs are trying to break free from us.
> Like WWI, where France and England just divided up the Mideast east into their colonies.
> The US certainly was responsible for ending the democracy in Iran in 1953.
> We killed Saddam and Qaddafi, wanted to kill Assad, and deposed Morsi.



We didn't kill Gaddafi.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> It's a good thing I didn't do anything that offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, there was this thing called the Nazi-Soviet non aggression pact that Hitler broke. Why?



Do you seriosly try to discuss about why Hitler did do what? I guess he liked to attack Stalin and Poland was between Russia and Germany and had to be eliminated, that's why. Hitler was a pragmatist and he said he learned to lie from an US-American president, which was perhaps a lie or not or not both of them.



HappyJoy said:


> Dumbest move Germany made during the war.



Which "during"? This was the beginning.



HappyJoy said:


> The USSR at the time wasn't a disease spreading across the continent like the Nazis were so we didn't have much of a choice in allys.



The USA knows always very well how to tell themselve lies and to believe in the own lies.  Many people from the USA had supported once the revolution in Russia, because it was part of republican and democratic ideas to eliminate nobles and many thought about the French revolution in this context. So the communistic-capitalistic world conspiracy theory of the Nazis convinced unfortunatelly many people and was a main motor for the anti-Semitism of the Nazis. They made in theory a bridge from rich capitalistic Jews of the USA to the poor proletarians Jews in Russia.



HappyJoy said:


> Wow, touchy.



 Touchy? ... I forgot. For you I am "only" a Red Indian and the only good Red Indian you ever saw was dead. The USA is tear-stained if some US-Americans die - but if you kill millions of people from foreign nations then this is totally unimportant for you. Believe it or not: It exist many reasons why many people in the world hate the USA. Only because Germans and Japanese don't do so you should not make wrong conclusions about the greatness or lousiness of the USA.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> A crime here in Germany.  The public call for a violent solution of a problem is in Germany a crime. Reason: That's terrorism.


cool, i’m in the US and that’s where we were talking about 

it’s not a crime here to say you want all terrorist to say….nor is that terrorism


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Because they come here with that goal in mind.  Muslims have made a mess in Europe.  Our politicians want it here.



No, the US made a mess of Europe by attacking so many Arab nations and creating so many Arab refugees.
The Arabs were not trying to cross the Mediterranean on little rafts because they wanted to.
They were forced to leave because we turned their countries into our killing fields.  That includes Libya, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, the US made a mess of Europe by attacking so many Arab nations and creating so many Arab refugees.
> The Arabs were not trying to cross the Mediterranean on little rafts because they wanted to.
> They were forced to leave because we turned their countries into our killing fields.  That includes Libya, Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc.



Nah.. The US didn't cause the problems in Syria, Lebanon, Libya, ,Egypt or Yemen.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> cool, i’m in the US and that’s where we were talking about
> 
> it’s not a crime here to say you want all terrorist to say….nor is that terrorism



The US military is about the only real terrorists in the whole world.
We are about the only ones murdering innocent civilians in order to force the populations to accept our demands.

We murdered 3 million innocent Vietnamese, half a million innocent Iraqis, 100,000 Afghans, 100,000 Libyans, 50,000 Egyptians, etc.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> cool, i’m in the US and that’s where we were talking about
> 
> it’s not a crime here to say you want all terrorist to say….nor is that terrorism



It is terrorism. You threaten all people in the world to call them terrorists and to let murder them because you say so. In the USA people contiously dehumanize other people by comparing them negativelly for example with animals or sicknesses. With other words: You have a high civilisation but not a high culture - while other people in the world, like the Tibetans for example, have a low civilisation but a high culture.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> Nah.. The US didn't cause the problems in Syria, Lebanon, Libya, ,Egypt or Yemen.



The US did not start the problems, such as with Syria, the Sunni/Shia conflict, the Ottoman occupation, the Sykes-Piccard division of spoils, etc., but US was obviously funding and arming the rebels, who were not good for Syria.
Why else would we have a US CIA annex in Benghazi, with pallets of weapons and money?
Ambassador Stevens had no reason to be in Benghazi except to arm and bribe Syrian rebels.

The Benghazi rebels were not the right people to topple Qaddafi if that were our goal.
But they were the right people to fight Assad.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> It is terrorism. You threaten all people in the world to call them terrorists and to let murder them because you say so. In the USA people contiously dehumanize other people by comparing them negativelly for example with animals or sicknesses. With other words: You have a high civilisation but not a high culture - while other people in the world, like the Tibetans for example, have a low civilisation but a high culture.


no it’s not terrorism in the United States to say that you wish terrorist who behead, bomb, rape and murder people would be wiped off the earth 

i can understand how those thoughts might offend you though


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> It is terrorism. You threaten all people in the world to call them terrorists and to let murder them because you say so. In the USA people contiously dehumanize other people by comoarinhg them negativelly for example with animals or sicknesses. With other words: You have a high civilisation but not a high culture - while other people in the world, like the Tibetans for example, have a low civilisation but a high culture.



Very good point.
Ancient Rome was the same way as the US, with high technology but low morality and ethics.
I think it is how capitalism always turns out eventually.
It is like reverse evolution.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The US military is about the only real terrorists in the whole world.
> We are about the only ones murdering innocent civilians in order to force the populations to accept our demands.
> 
> We murdered 3 million innocent Vietnamese, half a million innocent Iraqis, 100,000 Afghans, 100,000 Libyans, 50,000 Egyptians, etc.


haha yeah the US military are terrorist hahaa


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The Quran is clear that there can never be any compulsion over religion, and that both Christianity and Judaism are "Brother of the Book", and are valid ways to heaven.
> All 3 monotheistic religions share the same Old Testament.
> 
> Moslems NEVER try to expand or convert anyone, ever.



A good one. Best joke of the year up to now - and it is September. An usual interpretation of the Quran is it that Christians who believe in the triune god - or with other words: all Christians - are defined not as monotheists but as polytheists in the book which made Caliph Osman. And atheists and polytheists have to be murdered. Osman - the author of the Quran - had imprisoned by the way also an important wife from Mohammed, because she said what he said Mohammed never had said.

And if you don't remember: A sword is the symbol of the [political] Islam, because you convert other nations with military power.



Rigby5 said:


> What they want is just to not have foreign value systems imposed upon them by force.
> And the advantage of Islam over all other religions is that it is the only one that implements social welfare systems built in, like for orphans and widows.



The value system of the political Islam is very simple: If Jews would destroy a 200 years old mosque anywhere then everywhere in the world of the Muslims would be riots and terror waves would swap over the whole world. But when the Wahabi in Saudi Arabia - the worst destroyers of buildings of the history of the Muslims in Mekka - do the same or more worse things in Mekka - the most holy place for all Muslims - then no one notices anything about.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> no it’s not terrorism in the United States to say that you wish terrorist who behead, bomb, rape and murder people would be wiped off the earth
> 
> i can understand how those thoughts might offend you though



Except you actually know nothing about those you defame, and it is the US that commits most of the crimes.
Beheading is to avoid pain because it is quick.
It is the US that bombs and terrorizes almost always.
The Taliban do not rape.

Of all the war crimes of the last century, the US is by far the greatest criminal.
For example, massacring millions of Moros in the Philippines after they helped us against the Spanish, and we reneged on our promise to get them independence, (1911 Philippine Rebellion).
They only had machetes and we had Maxim machine guns.
But they were in the right, and we were evil imperialists.
Do I need to list all the foreign atrocities we committed again?
Clearly not a one was self defense.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> haha yeah the US military are terrorist hahaa



Bombs from the air, are the greatest terrorist weapon of all.


----------



## Hang on Sloopy (Sep 12, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Let me guess, the peaceful religion?


A lot do end up in pieces


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> A good one. Best joke of the year up to now - and it bis September.



Who are Arab Moslems invading, colonizing, taking over, terrorizing?
The answer is no one.
They instead are just trying to be free of western domination, imperialism, colonialism, etc.


----------



## Hang on Sloopy (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Except you actually know nothing about those you defame, and it is the US that commits most of the crimes.
> Beheading is to avoid pain because it is quick.
> It is the US that bombs and terrorizes almost always.
> The Taliban do not rape.
> ...


The Taliban does not rape..........................LOLOLOL.....No they just fuck little boys and 10 yr old brides you butt fukin moron


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Hang on sloopy said:


> A lot do end up in pieces



We have our weapons over there, killing millions of them, for a century.
They just hijacked 2 planes over here.
A couple more millions have to die in the US to even the scales.
But since we started it first, we should pay even more than that.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.
> 
> This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.


So when we put someone on death roe to death other nations should drone us?

As fucked up as this is it is NONE OF OUR FUCKING BUSINESS


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Hang on sloopy said:


> The Taliban does not rape..........................LOLOLOL.....No they just fuck little boys and 10 yr old brides you butt fukin moron



Afghanistan has lots of primitive tribes and people who may do all sorts of things, but the Taliban are a particular group with far more strict moral and ethical codes than anyone in the US has.
You obviously know nothing about the Taliban.
They are very popular because they are the most strict, and do not commit crimes.
WE commit crimes.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> We should have blown the taliban up as they crossed the desert heading into city after city.    We should not have been nation building---we should have been genociding the terrorists and their clerics.   Kindness is seen as ALLAH making we infidels weak and thusly telling Allah's followers to kill the weak ones.   The only way that the Middle East ever becomes peaceful and the terrorists leave us alone (think we have high high probably of terror attack here in the states this month) is if we kill the terrorists with extreme prejudice wiping out most all males and then outlaw islams multi-wife and female killing bullshit forcing them to change culturally.
> 
> This said---send in the drones and start assassinating all taliban and their clerics now.



First of all, we tried to blow up all the Taliban and obviously failed.
Second is that since the Taliban are the most strict and law abiding, you would end up with the opposite result of what you wanted.
The Taliban are the very best of all in Afghanistan, and are in our best interests to be in power.
We should never have forced them out of power.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> Honestly, who cares.  If you chose to live there after having 20 years to get out,
> Suffer the consequences.
> They've been cutting off heads forever.
> They are animals and it's no presidents fault.



Cutting off heads is a millions times less painful than the electrocutions or suffocations the US uses routinely.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Except you actually know nothing about those you defame, and it is the US that commits most of the crimes.
> Beheading is to avoid pain because it is quick.
> It is the US that bombs and terrorizes almost always.
> The Taliban do not rape.
> ...


sure i do.   The Taliban’s oppression  is well documented, their aid and comfort to AQ is well documented.  AQ and ISIS terror is well documented.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> I heard once that the real reason we are fighting with the Arabs is they wont Buy into our way of banking. Debt, interest, credit card,



Probably true.
{...
The concept of charging interest – known as* Riba in Islam* – is against the religion's principle of ‘fair distribution’ because it increases inequality. When interest is charged, the lender ends up with more and the borrower with less than they both started with – the rich become richer while the poor become poorer.
...}


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Bombs from the air, are the greatest terrorist weapon of all.


not really…they can be, but i think a suicide bomb is a greater terrorist weapon.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Cutting off heads is a millions times less painful than the electrocutions or suffocations the US uses routinely.


oh the taliban does a lot of torture well before a beheading.

the women get tortured then stoned to death…

but these are the animals you praise and love…


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> sure i do.   The Taliban’s impression is well documented, their aid and comfort to AQ is well documented.  AQ and ISIS terror is well documented.



Totally and completely wrong.
The Taliban always disliked the Arab foreign legion but it was the CIA who force them to accept the Saudis into to the Mujahedeen.
Al Qaeda committed no crimes in Afghanistan, so the Taliban could not do anything about them.
And ISIS was a bunch of Iraqi Sunni the US let out of prison all at once in Iraq, near Syria.
It was the US who created ISIS entirely, and they had nothing to do with Afghanistan at all.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> not really…they can be, but i think a suicide bomb is a greater terrorist weapon.



Wrong.
A suicide bomb requires truth belief and dedication, so can't easily be abused and it almost always then ethical out of dedication.
The US risks nothing when it uses a drone to launch a Hellfire missile on civilians, so requires no moral beliefs at all.
In fact, it requires a lack of moral beliefs of any kind.

From a practical perspective, you can always search people, look for packages, etc. so suicide bombing can be prevented.
There is absolutely no way to prevent a drone strike, and it is almost always totally unethical because it can't pick targets nearly as carefully.

When the perpetrator faces risk, it automatically precludes lots immoral motivations, like greed.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> oh the taliban does a lot of torture well before a beheading.
> 
> the women get tortured then stoned to death…
> 
> but these are the animals you praise and love…



Wrong.
Taliban never torture.
Only the US does that.
Taliban have never stoned any woman.
Stoning is PROHIBITED in the Quran.
Stoning is done by ignorant tribal people, like in Saudi Arabia, but not by Quran scholars like the Taliban.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The US did not start the problems, such as with Syria, the Sunni/Shia conflict, the Ottoman occupation, the Sykes-Piccard division of spoils, etc., but US was obviously funding and arming the rebels, who were not good for Syria.
> Why else would we have a US CIA annex in Benghazi, with pallets of weapons and money?
> Ambassador Stevens had no reason to be in Benghazi except to arm and bribe Syrian rebels.
> 
> ...



The ambassador was in Benghazi overnight to dedicate a joint venture emergency response system at Benghazi hospital the next morning.. a joint venture between Benghazi hospital and Mass General.

The CIA annex was a listening operation to try and identify Eastern tribes that would support a return of the Idris Constitution. You might read it. No money or weapons.

Syria was in freefall from 2005 because of drought, the collapse of agriculture and their small oil industry.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Taliban never torture.
> Only the US does that.
> Taliban have never stoned any woman.
> ...



There is NO stoning in KSA, not even in the most backward, rural areas.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> A good one. Best joke of the year up to now - and it is September. An usual interpretation of the Quran is it that Christians who believe in the triune god - or with other words: all Christians - are defined not as monotheists but as polytheists in the book which made Caliph Osman. And atheists and polytheists have to be murdered. Osman - the author of the Quran - had imprisoned by the way also an important wife from Mohammed, because she said what he said Mohammed never had said.
> 
> And if you don't remember: A sword is the symbol of the [political] Islam, because you convert other nations with military power.
> 
> ...



You're stupid.. Mecca hosts a million or more pilgrims a year and facilities to provide for food, shelter, transportation and healthcare are essential to their well being.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> The ambassador was in Benghazi overnight to dedicate a joint venture emergency response system at Benghazi hospital the next morning.. a joint venture between Benghazi hospital and Mass General.
> 
> The CIA annex was a listening operation to try and identify Eastern tribes that would support a return of the Idris Constitution. You might read it. No money or weapons.
> 
> Syria was in freefall from 2005 because of drought, the collapse of agriculture and their small oil industry.



An ambassador is a political figure who would be totally out of place for a hospital dedication.
That obviously was just a cover.

Listening post are done in secret and do not need or want troops.
You use troops only when you have valuables and are divulging your location to those who are suspect.

Sure there were lots of causes for the start of the revolt in Syria, but clearly the rebels were getting money and weapons.
If not the US, then the only other player is Israel.
But both would need a neutral geography like Benghazi.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> There is NO stoning in KSA, not even in the most backward, rural areas.



I have to admit personal ignorance, but the media gives me the impression there is some?
{...
Saudi Arabia​Further information: Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia
Legal stoning sentences have been reported in Saudi Arabia.[103][104] There were four cases of execution by stoning reported between 1981 and 1992.[105]
...}








						Stoning - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> An ambassador is a political figure who would be totally out of place for a hospital dedication.
> That obviously was just a cover.
> 
> Listening post are done in secret and do not need or want troops.
> ...



Don't be stupid. Ambassadors do that kind of thing all the time... or maybe you didn't know Mass General is in Boston.

Just quit while you're ahead. You don't know anything about Libya or Gaddafi or Benghazi.

It wasn't about weapons. Libya was awash in weapons. Gaddafi had been on two billion dollar shopping sprees in the 2 years prior.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I have to admit personal ignorance, but the media gives me the impression there is some?
> {...
> Saudi Arabia​Further information: Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia
> Legal stoning sentences have been reported in Saudi Arabia.[103][104] There were four cases of execution by stoning reported between 1981 and 1992.[105]
> ...



Its an ignorant lie. There is NO stoning in Saudi Arabia. Most jackasses who write about Arabia know nothing about the country.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> That's a public call for mass-murder - or with other words: a crime.


And when they kill you, would you consider that a crime? You need to start thinking a bit more.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> You also don’t check out these news sites.
> Muslims don’t need non-Muslims as an excuse to murder each other.



Most of the Arab world is quite safe.. moreso than in the US.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> A good one. Best joke of the year up to now - and it is September. An usual interpretation of the Quran is it that Christians who believe in the triune god - or with other words: all Christians - are defined not as monotheists but as polytheists in the book which made Caliph Osman. And atheists and polytheists have to be murdered. Osman - the author of the Quran - had imprisoned by the way also an important wife from Mohammed, because she said what he said Mohammed never had said.
> 
> And if you don't remember: A sword is the symbol of the [political] Islam, because you convert other nations with military power.
> 
> ...



I do not get your point.
Most Christians do not believe in a triune, only Catholics do, and Christians do not believe the son of God is a god.
Believing in the Holy Ghost is not a belief in multiple gods because anyone who believes in heaven or hell, believes we all have immortal souls.
Immortal souls are not gods.

The sword is a symbol of defense, not conquest.

The Saudis are tribal and are not good Moslems.
Islam got divided by the Mongol Conquest around 1200, so it interpreted by many different tribal factions.
It is not unified under a single leadership.


----------



## Indeependent (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> Most of the Arab world is quite safe.. moreso than in the US.


No wonder Muslims are protesting their governments.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> No wonder Muslims are protesting their governments.



Some are. Most aren't. What's your issue?


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I do not get your point.
> Most Christians do not believe in a triune, only Catholics do, and Christians do not believe the son of God is a god.
> Believing in the Holy Ghost is not a belief in multiple gods because anyone who believes in heaven or hell, believes we all have immortal souls.
> Immortal souls are not gods.
> ...



God, you are full of shit.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> Don't be stupid. Ambassadors do that kind of thing all the time... or maybe you didn't know Mass General is in Boston.
> 
> Just quit while you're ahead. You don't know anything about Libya or Gaddafi or Benghazi.
> 
> It wasn't about weapons. Libya was awash in weapons. Gaddafi had been on two billion dollar shopping sprees in the 2 years prior.



Yes I know Mass General is in Boston, but my point was Mass General would have no interest or reason to open something in Benghazi, unless it was for trials that would be illegal in the US.
US hospitals are not philanthropic, but entirely profit motivated and based.

I only have 3rd hand info on Libya, but I believe they are tribal behind the scenes, and the Berber elders likely picked Qaddafi as their front.
I don't believe he took or held power on his own.  
And I believe Benghazi was mostly Egyptians and other refugees who were a threat to the Berber elders.
Which is why we were pouring money and weapons into Benghazi.
The weapons Qaddafi had would not have been accessible to the Benghazi rebels at the time Stevens was there.
They only got those weapons later, after Qaddafi was defeated and killed.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Indeependent said:


> No wonder Muslims are protesting their governments.



Most governments in Moslem countries were set up by the west, like General Sisi in Egypt.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> God, you are full of shit.



You have to admit that Moslems were never unified, such as the Shia/Sunni split right after Mohammad's death, and Wahhabism is really very tribal in my opinion.
The conquests of the Mamelukes, Mongols, Mughals, Moors, and Turks can not really be attributed to Islam.


----------



## Donald H (Sep 12, 2021)

Was it a politically warranted execution of a traitor?

America is guilty of executing hundreds, if not thousands during it's many wars. So far the Taliban appears to be selective as it abides by the deal to not kill Americans who are being freely permitted to leave the country.

Has there ever been such a peaceful and cooperative end to any war in history?

It's just not being fair to begrudge the Taliban some small revenge against those they see as traitors.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Taliban never torture.
> Only the US does that.
> Taliban have never stoned any woman.
> ...


hahaha of course they do….ask any women that made it out of there


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> A suicide bomb requires truth belief and dedication, so can't easily be abused and it almost always then ethical out of dedication.
> The US risks nothing when it uses a drone to launch a Hellfire missile on civilians, so requires no moral beliefs at all.
> In fact, it requires a lack of moral beliefs of any kind.
> ...


hahaa there is nothing ethical about bombing innocent people sitting in a cafe, having lunch, because your religion tells you


----------



## dblack (Sep 12, 2021)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Let me guess, the peaceful religion?


Mostly.


----------



## Borillar (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Taliban celebrate beheading of Afghan soldier in grisly video
> 
> 
> EXCLUSIVE — The Taliban beheaded an Afghan soldier, then chanted praise to their leader while holding the severed head of their victim by his hair in a video posted in a private Taliban chat room.
> ...


And we should care because? Fuck Afghanistan. It was a shithole country before we went there. It was a shithole country for the 20 years we were there. It is a shithole country now that we are gone and after a trillion dollars spent on it and thousands of lives lost. Let them go back to cutting each other's heads off. They've been doing it for thousands of years.


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Yes I know Mass General is in Boston, but my point was Mass General would have no interest or reason to open something in Benghazi, unless it was for trials that would be illegal in the US.
> US hospitals are not philanthropic, but entirely profit motivated and based.
> 
> I only have 3rd hand info on Libya, but I believe they are tribal behind the scenes, and the Berber elders likely picked Qaddafi as their front.
> ...




Jesus, are you calling Mass General a liar. Libya had NO  emergency services.. Countries do these outreach things all the time. Where the hell are you from that you don't know that?


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> hahaha of course they do….ask any women that made it out of there



How many Afghan women have you talked to?


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> How many Afghan women have you talked to?


about a dozen


----------



## Colin norris (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Cutting off heads is a millions times less painful than the electrocutions or suffocations the US uses routinely.



I've never experienced it so I take your  expert advice.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Do you seriosly try to discuss about why Hitler did do what? I guess he liked to attack Stalin and Poland was between Russia and Germany and had to be eliminated, that's why. Hitler was a pragmatist and he said he learned to lie from an US-American president, which was perhaps a lie or not or not both of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you want to defend Hitler then go ahead.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> hahaa there is nothing ethical about bombing innocent people sitting in a cafe, having lunch, because your religion tells you



You would have to not only be more specific as to a particular time and place where a supposed terrrorist attack took place, but also have to prove it was not a deliberate CIA event in order to cause panic and promote good US PR.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> Jesus, are you calling Mass General a liar. Libya had NO  emergency services.. Countries do these outreach things all the time. Where the hell are you from that you don't know that?



The US has some of the worst health care access in the world, so it is hard to believe that a profit oriented corporation like the one that owns Mass General, would be working so hard to improve health care in Benghazi, a place where we happen to want to contact mercenaries and funnel in weapons and money?


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> about a dozen



And all the women I have talked to from Afghanistan, did not like the Taliban, but thought they were fair and honest.
Being too strict is the least of the problems Afghanistan has.
The Taliban are by far the best of the worst.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> If you want to defend Hitler then go ahead.



The point is Hitler was following orders.
He was not particularly anti socialist or anti communists, we can tell from his early days hanging around with socialists and communists.
But after the wealthy elite picked him as their representative front, he was very careful to then always be anti socialist and anti communist.


----------



## struth (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> You would have to not only be more specific as to a particular time and place where a supposed terrrorist attack took place, but also have to prove it was not a deliberate CIA event in order to cause panic and promote good US PR.


there have been many…US Cole, twice at the WTC, in places all over Israel, Europe, snd the United States


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The point is Hitler was following orders.
> He was not particularly anti socialist or anti communists, we can tell from his early days hanging around with socialists and communists.
> But after the wealthy elite picked him as their representative front, he was very careful to then always be anti socialist and anti communist.


He was what?

*What is wrong with this fucking forum?*


----------



## surada (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The US has some of the worst health care access in the world, so it is hard to believe that a profit oriented corporation like the one that owns Mass General, would be working so hard to improve health care in Benghazi, a place where we happen to want to contact mercenaries and funnel in weapons and money?



Gaddafi built hospitals with no equipment and no doctors.. He was half assed about a lot of things.

They certainly had no emergency services so this was an outreach thing by Mass General.. and not so unusual an arrangement in the ME.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

struth said:


> there have been many…US Cole, twice at the WTC, in places all over Israel, Europe, snd the United States



Both WTC attacks were deliberate CIA events.
With the first bombing in 1993, the FBI even provided the explosives and truck.
The testimony is on record.
Just do a search on Emad Salem, the FBI informant who taped the FBI conversations with him.
With the 2nd WTC attack, the FBI told the Bush administration all about the Saudis taking flying lessons, etc.
Clearly they wanted and encouraged the attack.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> Gaddafi built hospitals with no equipment and no doctors.. He was half assed about a lot of things.
> 
> They certainly had no emergency services so this was an outreach thing by Mass General.. and not so unusual an arrangement in the ME.



But a very unusual thing to do in Benghazi, practically a war zone, without any direct control by Tripoli.
It was a rebel camp.
Nor was it controlled by ethic Berbers.
It was all very radical extremists, like Lebanese, Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, etc., who had to leave their home country due to being a threat to the existing governments.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> You're stupid..



Aha.



surada said:


> Mecca hosts a million or more pilgrims a year



2 millions.



surada said:


> and facilities to provide for food, shelter, transportation and healthcare are essential to their well being.



 Why not to make a big car park there and some hot dog inns in the very old heathen place Kaaba? But I'm indeed really "stupid". When US-American soldiers in the Iraq drove against a corner of a historical building in Babylon and damaged it I was as angry about this as about the death of much too many Iraqis because of this totally wrong and counterproductive war from George W. Bush for the Saudi Arabian Wahabism - the prototpe of all "Islamic State" movements. It's one thing to know that life is more valueable than istorical buildings - it's another thing to find out what makes oneself angry.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

surada said:


> Its an ignorant lie. There is NO stoning in Saudi Arabia. Most jackasses who write about Arabia know nothing about the country.



There are only public hangings ... ah sorry: beheadings.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

The US apparently has reduced executions to only about 20 a year, and Saudi Arabia seems to have increased them to about 150?


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> If you want to defend Hitler then go ahead.


surada

Both of you show by calling me a Nazi who defends Hitler that you don't have any real arguments because you refuse to see the complexity of reality. Example: George W. Bush created ISIS by defending the Saud system, which is in the total opposite of the founding principles of the USA. You create what you hate. Saddam Husein had by the way fought once against the Iran for the Sauds and the USA and had caused an immense damage in the Iran - for long eight years.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> The Quran is clear that there can never be any compulsion over religion, and that both Christianity and Judaism are "Brother of the Book", and are valid ways to heaven.
> All 3 monotheistic religions share the same Old Testament.
> 
> ...


Islam lies and calls for lying to infidels and then uses the sword on them when they don't convert or pay tribute.   Your lying by trying to hide this.   You think non muslims are uneducated--we aren't.    ISLAM is spread by the sword......it's a warlord religion that uses terror and rape and murder to spread it. S

Social welfare system built in?  Oh you mean where the widows and kids beg on the street because women aren't allowed to do much else without a man around.   AND BTW, why is the west's welfare so abused by muslims?


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Both WTC attacks were deliberate CIA events. ...



Strange idea. You was lucky that not very much people were in the buildings when they were bombed down. I heard up to 20,000 people had been in this buildings from time to time. So in all frustrations you also can not say god is not with you.

And whatever 9/11 wounded - let not infect you by the hate of the offenders. God bless the USA.


----------



## Turtlesoup (Sep 12, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Both WTC attacks were deliberate CIA events.
> With the first bombing in 1993, the FBI even provided the explosives and truck.
> The testimony is on record.
> Just do a search on Emad Salem, the FBI informant who taped the FBI conversations with him.
> ...


The FBI are a corrupt organization--I have trouble with conspiracy theory that doesn't have them listed at the top of the suspect list.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 12, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Islam lies and calls for lying to infidels and then uses the sword on them when they don't convert or pay tribute.   Your lying by trying to hide this.   You think non muslims are uneducated--we aren't.    ISLAM is spread by the sword......it's a warlord religion that uses terror and rape and murder to spread it. S
> 
> Social welfare system built in?  Oh you mean where the widows and kids beg on the street because women aren't allowed to do much else without a man around.   AND BTW, why is the west's welfare so abused by muslims?



The jizya is symbolic tribute, and is usually less than the zakat.
And no, Islam does not "call for lying to infidels". 
Islam only allows for lying when these are lives at stake.
It is a warlord religion only in that there were only warlords when Mohammad was trying to create a system of survival.
It is not spread by murder, rape, or terror, and in fact Moslems do not want to spread it at all.
Instead they would prefer to remain isolated from those who are corrupted.

{...
The classical jurists have defined two types of Jizyah: The Jizyah of Conciliation (al-Sulhiyyah) and the Jizyah of Exaction (al-`Anwiyyah).

The first type is when a Kafir nation signs a treaty with the Muslim nation without going to war. The magnitude of this Jizyah is whatever both sides agree to.

The second is the type of Jizyah that is exacted from the citizens of a formerly kafir land, after their previous administration has been defeated in war. It is exacted from all the free, sane, adult men who are able to pay it. The monks living in their monasteries or those too poor to pay it are exempt. There are differing positions regarding its magnitude, the two main positions (Hanafi & Maliki) are as follows:

The Hanafi position is that the magnitude varies with the level of wealth of the Dhimmi. For the rich it is 48 dirhams (silver coins) yearly, for the middle classes 24 dirhams and for the poor [who are able to pay] 12 dirhams.

The Maliki position is that the Jizyah is 4 dinars (gold coins) yearly for the people who have gold and 40 dirhams for those who have silver.

The other two positions are the Shafi’i who hold that the minimum amount of Jizyah is one pure gold dinar annually and it is upon the discretion of the Imam (Muslim leader) to exact more if he sees fit and the Hanbali who say that it’s wholly upon the discretion of the Imam and he can lower & raise it as he sees fit depending on the ability of the Ahl al Dhimmah to pay
Edit: As for the question of whether the Jizyah is lower or higher than Zakah, as is clear, because of the difference in the way they’re levied, you can’t definitely say which one is higher; depending on the circumstances the Zakah of a Muslim citizen could be higher than the Jizyah paid by a Dhimmi or it could be the other way around.

It must be noted that Zakah is a religious obligation of a Muslim. While payment of Zakah on cattle, the grain harvest (tenth or twentieth part) etc. to the leader does signify acceptance of him as a legitimate Muslim authority, however it’s primarily an obligation to God. If there’s no sultan to collect Zakah, it’s still upon a Muslim to give the amount owed to a legitimate beneficiary. Jizyah on the other hand, is levied on a person or nation which does not accept what God has obligated but pays an amount to show their acceptance of the Muslim authorities.
...}


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> He was what?
> 
> *What is wrong with this fucking forum?*



Hitler got no orders - from no one. (Except when he had been a soldier in world war 1). And Hitler had been an anti-Soviet. Some people in the USA attack "The Democrats" of the USA, because Hitler had been a socialist and they like to see in Democrats also socialists and Nazis - but this is just simple an extreme political nonsense propaganda. What doesn't mean that not some people - independent from their political orientation - use the same form of an extreme inhuman propaganda as the Nazis did do - also with racist biological arguments (=elitist pseudo-Darwinism). Here in Germany we say sometimes: _"Someone is so far left that he comes back from the extreme right edge."_ or _"Someone is so far right that he comes back from the extreme left edge." _But this is not a system. In general the Nazis had been a right wing movement  - a kind of right wing revolution.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I do not get your point.
> Most Christians do not believe in a triune, only Catholics do,



What's nonsense because you don't understand the word "καθολικός" = "[all-]encompassing". The Nicene creed is common for all Christians. Only the sentence "we believe in one catholic and apostolic church" is sometimes replaced with sentences like "we believe in the christian church" where "christian" means the same as "καθολικός".



Rigby5 said:


> and Christians do not believe the son of God is a god.



We Germanics were once "Arianer" =arians (not to confuse with "Arier" = aryans. In German this are totally different words). We saw in Him a hundred percent human being. But this did not change when we became Catholics. On logical reasons, which I don't like to explain now, it is impossible not to see in Jesus god. No one is really able to make a difference between Jesus and god - except he calls Jesus an impostor. And not even Muslims do so. They call Jesus a prophet.



Rigby5 said:


> Believing in the Holy Ghost is not a belief in multiple gods because anyone who believes in heaven or hell, believes we all have immortal souls.



Don't be astonished: But no one has really to believe in an own immortal soul who is a Christian, although nearly everyone is doing so. For the past I can say such a thing seems to exist because we all seem to be here since the very first moments of the universe, but whether we will continue to exist after our death I do not know. We believe in general god will call us back into a new everlasting (¿or timeless?) life with our soul and a new body made of light. And between Catholics and other Christians exists here specially the difference that many Roman Catholics are not convinced from an everlasting hell, because we are living in a limited way here on Earth - what not seems to justify a never ending punishment. We think more about a kind of cleanig fire - the so called purgatory - in which the soul (including body of light) will be finally cleaned from our last sins.



Rigby5 said:


> Immortal souls are not gods.
> 
> The sword is a symbol of defense, not conquest.



A sword is a piece of metal which is made to kill human beings. We were over long thousands of years excellent manufacturers of swords. The Japanese katana is the most famous sword in the world - but the German long sword is really doing what the myths say about the Japanese katana. Both are two hand swords - and the ways to fight with them are very different.



Rigby5 said:


> The Saudis are tribal and are not good Moslems.



Everyone belongs to a tribe - and to call all people from a tribe to be "not good in their own religion" sounds to be a little racist. I'm sure it exist also very wise Saudis - but whether other people hear or like to hear what they say will be another problem.



Rigby5 said:


> Islam got divided by the Mongol Conquest around 1200, so it interpreted by many different tribal factions.
> It is not unified under a single leadership.



Leadership? Hmmm ... Roman Catholics are unified under a leading servent of the servents of god who serve other Catholics. So who is our real leader? A tramp? ... Whatever. ... Fortunatelly a Trump seems not to be any leader in such a context.  ...


----------



## surada (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The US apparently has reduced executions to only about 20 a year, and Saudi Arabia seems to have increased them to about 150?



Saudi Arabia puts terrorists to death.


----------



## surada (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The jizya is symbolic tribute, and is usually less than the zakat.
> And no, Islam does not "call for lying to infidels".
> Islam only allows for lying when these are lives at stake.
> It is a warlord religion only in that there were only warlords when Mohammad was trying to create a system of survival.
> ...



Dirham is - the basic monetary unit of Morocco and United Arab Emirates.


----------



## Burgermeister (Sep 13, 2021)

Looks like this happened on the same day Biden taped his scolding about the dark forces here in American - “We also witnessed the dark forces of human nature. Fear and anger. Resentment and violence against Muslim-Americans — true and faithful followers of a peaceful religion,”


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Hitler got no orders - from no one. (Except when he had been a soldier in world war 1). And Hitler had been an anti-Soviet. Some people in the USA attack "The Democrats" of the USA, because Hitler had been a socialist and they like to see in Democrats also socialists and Nazis - but this is just simple an extreme political nonsense propaganda. What doesn't mean that not some people - independent from their political orientation - use the same form of an extreme inhuman propaganda as the Nazis did do - also with racist biological arguments (=elitist pseudo-Darwinism). Here in Germany we say sometimes: _"Someone is so far left that he comes back from the extreme right edge."_ or _"Someone is so far right that he comes back from the extreme left edge." _But this is not a system. In general the Nazis had been a right wing movement  - a kind of right wing revolution.



I doubt Hitler himself was anti soviet.
Hitler hung around with socialists and communists when younger.
But after he was jailed, and released, he had no money or fame.
Someone spent a lot of money publishing his book, renting stadiums, putting on shows, etc.
Someone marketed Hitler, and spent millions.
During the 1930s, the Germans and Soviets were collaborative, working on tank design together.
In 1939 they collaboratively divided Poland.
Hitler showed no person anti-soviet sentiment.
 I do not believe Operation Barbarossa was his idea.

What if the money sponsoring Hitler actually came from people like GM, Std Oil, etc.?
Then they would want war because there are always profits to be made by war, but they would not have really wanted Hitler to win.
So then they would ensure he lost, and what better way to do that then to order him to attack Russia?


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> I doubt Hitler himself was anti soviet.



There is nothing to doubt in this fact.



Rigby5 said:


> Hitler hung around with socialists and communists when younger.



No idea what you say here.



Rigby5 said:


> But after he was jailed, and released, he had no money or fame.



What? Hitler never had money. He was poor. He was jailed because he made a riot. Unfortunlately he was not jailed long enough then "Mein K(r)ampf" had been perhaps a serialize novel.



Rigby5 said:


> Someone spent a lot of money publishing his book, renting stadiums, putting on shows, etc.



Sure. He got it from his fan club.



Rigby5 said:


> Someone marketed Hitler, and spent millions.



What do you like to say? That Hitler was able to convince people from his political ideas?



Rigby5 said:


> During the 1930s, the Germans and Soviets were collaborative, working on tank design together.



On what? Tank design? Funny.



Rigby5 said:


> In 1939 they collaboratively divided Poland.



What started world war 2.



Rigby5 said:


> Hitler showed no person anti-soviet sentiment. ...



You are really an idiot. Learn first somehting before you try to discuss with a German like me about Hitler. ...


----------



## sealybobo (Sep 13, 2021)

surada said:


> Well, our guys finally got OBL when Obama was president so that was a good thing.
> 
> I think Bush sort of forgot about OBL.


What happened there was shady.  He had him surrounded in the Tora Bora mountains, then let him slip through.  

The Saudi Binladin Group is Egypt's largest private foreign company and negotiated with the Lebanese government to rebuild part of central Beirut under a US $50 million contract. In 2009, the Bin Laden family was listed as the 5th wealthiest Saudi family by Forbes magazine, with a reported *net worth of $7 billion*.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> What's nonsense because you don't understand the word "καθολικός" = "[all-]encompassing". The Nicene creed is common for all Christians. Only the sentence "we believe in one catholic and apostolic church" is sometimes replaced with sentences like "we believe in the christian church" where "christian" means the same as "καθολικός".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have never met anyone who believed Jesus was a God.
It would make no sense.
A God would not walk around talking to groups of people, trying to make them believe something.
A God could and would just make them believe whatever the God wanted, like making the nature of all animals.
Most people I know look at the Nicene crowd as evil and corrupt.
My wife is Catholic, and even she thinks the triune thing is contradictory and silly.

A sword is technology.  What people use technology for, is up to them.

It is not at all racist to understand Moslems are bad at understanding Islam.
Islam only actually lasted for about 600 years.
After that, the Mongol invasion totally wiped out Baghdad and all Moslem leadership.
After that, the Mongols recreated Islam, but it was not the exact same thing.
Each new wave of Asian invaders, the Mongols, Moghuls, and Turks, each took over and changed Islam into what they wanted, not what it was originally supposed to be.

The Europeans are right that Islam came off as invaders, but those were not really Moslems, but Mongols, Moghuls, Moors, Mamelukes,  and Turks, who simply used Islam to further their goals.  Whether or not Arabs remembered or restored what Islam was supposed to be, I do not know.  Nor do I know for sure what the original Islam was supposed to be, other than what I have read so far.


----------



## surada (Sep 13, 2021)

sealybobo said:


> What happened there was shady.  He had him surrounded in the Tora Bora mountains, then let him slip through.
> 
> The Saudi Binladin Group is Egypt's largest private foreign company and negotiated with the Lebanese government to rebuild part of central Beirut under a US $50 million contract. In 2009, the Bin Laden family was listed as the 5th wealthiest Saudi family by Forbes magazine, with a reported *net worth of $7 billion*.



The Bin Laden family are very respectable, pro-America and successful. OBL was a black sheep , raised in Syria on Muslim Brotherhood narratives of Hassan Al Banna and Sayeed Qubt.. That stuff has been outlawed in Arabia since 1970.

OBL hated the Saudis because they revoked his citizenship in 1994 and declared AQ a terrorist group.


----------



## surada (Sep 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> What's nonsense because you don't understand the word "καθολικός" = "[all-]encompassing". The Nicene creed is common for all Christians. Only the sentence "we believe in one catholic and apostolic church" is sometimes replaced with sentences like "we believe in the christian church" where "christian" means the same as "καθολικός".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The word catholic means UNIVERSAL.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> There is nothing to doubt in this fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





zaangalewa said:


> There is nothing to doubt in this fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Again, Hitler was poor and unknown when he was let out of prison early.
Clearly he had people who were selecting him, and spent a great deal of money making him famous.
Nor did Hitler have any goals or ideas that warranted him having a fan club or any supporters at all.
The only obvious factor was that Hitler was the most likely to mean war, and war meant munitions profits.
But war was not Hitler's goal, and Hitler did not profit from war, so obviously Hitler was just a pawn.
He was never powerful or in control.
Like Mussolini, he was the front man, the fall guy, the patsy.
Those who invested all that money in making Hitler famous, did not lose a dime.
They got Hitler to do exactly as they wanted, and the result of WWII was just what they wanted.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

The history of cooperation between Hitler's Germany and Stalin's USSR is much more extensive than most people realize.

{...
Twenty years of intermittent cooperation had thus armed both Germany and the USSR for war. That relationship had begun in the immediate aftermath of the First World War. In the Treaty of Versailles that ended the war, the victorious allies reduced the German Army to only 100,000 men, and banned it from purchasing or producing tanks, aircraft, submarines or chemical weapons. They also stationed inspection teams in Germany to supervise the demilitarization of German industry. The remnants of the German High Command, now leading the much reduced Reichswehr [Reich Defense Force], did not accept these limitations. Instead, they immediately sought ways to circumvent Versailles and its enforcers. But isolated and occupied, they needed a partner.

 The Reichswehr would find one a thousand miles to the east. After their victory in the Russian Civil War, the Bolsheviks found themselves largely cut off from the rest of the world. The Red Army was in parlous shape. Famine and disease were rife. And industrial production had dropped to nearly zero. Facing the hostility of much of the rest of the world, Soviet Russia needed help, even if it meant working with the arch-counter revolutionaries heading the German Army.           

Circumstances thus thrust together ideological opponents. The German military began to provide the Soviets materiel and intelligence during the Bolsheviks’ war against Poland in 1920. In April 1922, the two states normalized relations in the Treaty of Rapallo. Shortly thereafter, the two militaries expanded cooperation, beginning with the relocation to the USSR of industrial production banned in Germany. The first products of this effort would be a chemical weapons complex near Samara and an aircraft factory in the Moscow suburbs; each began production in 1923.

The scale of industrial cooperation between the two states would grow to staggering proportions, much of it mediated by the German military. In the 1920s alone, the Red Army negotiated contracts with 255 German companies, including nearly every major industrial firm in Germany. The long-term impact on Soviet industrialization was tremendous: By 1940, 55% of all Soviet tank production would be dependent on factories that had been built or designed by German engineers, or equipped with German machine tools.

As these corporate projects took off, German and Soviet military leadership also sought to expand direct military-to-military cooperation. In 1923, the Reichswehr began to dispatch German pilots to a Soviet air base near Lipetsk. There they trained Soviet cadets on basic flight techniques. In 1925, the Germans would acquire the base on a lease, providing a space where the Reichswehr could test new plane prototypes and train new pilots, mechanics and engineers; in exchange, they would train in Soviet officers and engineers and provide the Soviet Air Force access to Germany’s newest technologies.

Lipetsk was the first of a network of shared military facilities. The next, a chemical weapons testing ground, opened in the fall of 1926 near Moscow. Starting in 1927, construction also began on a joint armored warfare training and testing ground. Based near Kazan, this facility would become fully operational with the arrival of German tank prototypes in 1929.

These facilities provided the basis for future German rearmament. All but one of the seven aviation firms in Germany were secretly contracted to dispatch their prototypes to Lipetsk for testing. Almost all of Germany’s aircraft designers who worked in the Second World War had their first major professional experience designing aircraft for Lipetsk. In essence, Germany would have been largely incapable of mass-design and production of combat aircraft without the Soviet partnership. The same was true in tank design: beginning in 1926, major industrial firms – Daimler, Krupp and M.A.N. – dispatched entire teams of engineers to take up residence at Kama, where Germany’s first new (and secret) tank prototypes were tested and improved. The engineers who resided in the USSR would later be responsible for designing the Panzer Mark I, II, III and IV - Germany’s main tank designs through 1943. These vehicles were in turn based on the prototypes that had first been tested and developed in the USSR.

The facilities in the USSR trained relatively small numbers of German officers and men - less than a thousand in total. Twenty-two future Luftwaffe generals of three star rank or above had either studied, taught, or had a command position at Lipetsk. Seventeen of the students who had attended Kama would command at least a division in combat in the Second World War. Other alumni would manage training as the German military grew, as few other German officers had experience with tanks or planes. In sum, the German military would not have been capable of expansion or rearmament had it not been for the work conducted in the USSR.

This first period of Soviet-German cooperation would come to a close under Hitler in the fall of 1933. In early 1939, the Soviets and Germans would both begin reassessing the possibility of revisiting their earlier partnership. The result would be the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 23, 1939 - a “renewal,” in Hitler’s words, of the earlier period of Soviet-German cooperation. The two states proceeded to partition Eastern Europe into spheres of influence. The following month, Hitler invaded Poland, triggering British and French declarations of war. For the next twenty two months, the Soviets and the Germans would again operate as partners. This second period of partnership would end with Hitler’s betrayal in June 1941. Hitler decided on war with the USSR in December 1940, following his failure to convince Stalin to join the war against Great Britain – there were limits to the dictators’ pact. Nevertheless, by then, thanks to years of collaboration, Germany and the Soviet Union shared a border, a capacity for making war, and bloody-minded ideologies, setting the stage for the most violent front of the Second World War.
...}




__





						Ambitious for War: How German-Soviet Collaboration Set the Course for WWII |  History News         Network
					






					historynewsnetwork.org


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> surada
> 
> Both of you show by calling me a Nazi who defends Hitler that you don't have any real arguments because you refuse to see the complexity of reality. Example: George W. Bush created ISIS by defending the Saud system, which is in the total opposite of the founding principles of the USA. You create what you hate. Saddam Husein had by the way fought once against the Iran for the Sauds and the USA and had caused an immense damage in the Iran - for long eight years.


I didn't call you a Nazi, but you sure do appear to be defending Germany during WWII.

I'm also not a fan of George W Bush, I think his administration set fire to a powder keg in the middle east.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Hitler got no orders - from no one. (Except when he had been a soldier in world war 1). And Hitler had been an anti-Soviet. Some people in the USA attack "The Democrats" of the USA, because Hitler had been a socialist and they like to see in Democrats also socialists and Nazis - but this is just simple an extreme political nonsense propaganda. What doesn't mean that not some people - independent from their political orientation - use the same form of an extreme inhuman propaganda as the Nazis did do - also with racist biological arguments (=elitist pseudo-Darwinism). Here in Germany we say sometimes: _"Someone is so far left that he comes back from the extreme right edge."_ or _"Someone is so far right that he comes back from the extreme left edge." _But this is not a system. In general the Nazis had been a right wing movement  - a kind of right wing revolution.


Agree.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> I didn't call you a Nazi, but you sure do appear to be defending Germany during WWII.
> 
> I'm also not a fan of George W Bush, I think his administration set fire to a powder keg in the middle east.



Which Hillary supported setting fire to and continued on with her "Arab Spring" nonsense, which was actually all the US except for the origins in Tunisia in 2010.  Trying to kill off all the Arab leaders, like Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad, Morsi, etc., was a terrible idea.


----------



## surada (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Which Hillary supported setting fire to and continued on with her "Arab Spring" nonsense, which was actually all the US except for the origins in Tunisia in 2010.  Trying to kill off all the Arab leaders, like Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad, Morsi, etc., was a terrible idea.



You are dead wrong on the Arab Spring.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Agree.



If Hitler was not taking orders from anyone, then how was he able to afford to put on these million dollar outdoor events when he was poor, and why did he do suicidal things, like attack the USSR before finishing off England?
Hitler was never acting in his own interests.
Nothing he did made sense in terms of what would have been good for him, nor could he possibly have pulled it off himself.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

surada said:


> You are dead wrong on the Arab Spring.



The original and real Arab Spring is what put Morsi into power.
The Arab Spring that arrested Morsi and put General Sisi into power was not the real Arab Spring, but a fake one.
Same with Assad and Saddam.
The dictators provided the most freedom and stability because they were from the minority and had to provide or else.
If the majority takes over, like in Iraq, then there is nothing to stop the majority from abusing the minority.
Iraq likely will now simply be submerged with Iran.
If Assad were to lose, it would be a bloodbath and Shia would be massacred.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Which Hillary supported setting fire to and continued on with her "Arab Spring" nonsense, which was actually all the US except for the origins in Tunisia in 2010.  Trying to kill off all the Arab leaders, like Saddam, Qaddafi, Assad, Morsi, etc., was a terrible idea.



Neat kid. The Iraq war set off an imbalance in the region that could only lead to a single conclusion that benefits Iran. Clinton didn't have the opportunity to manage either war (Iraq and Afghanistan) early on, that was on Bush. The Obama administration didn't start a single additional war, rather had to deal with the outcomes of what they inherited. They are accused of either being the cause of ISIS or not fighting ISIS soon enough. They made a lot of mistakes no doubt. However under two separate Democratic presidencies we have managed to finally get out of both Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the meantime the last two Republican presidents could only win the popular vote 1 time out of 4.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> If Hitler was not taking orders from anyone, then how was he able to afford to put on these million dollar outdoor events when he was poor, and why did he do suicidal things, like attack the USSR before finishing off England?
> Hitler was never acting in his own interests.
> Nothing he did made sense in terms of what would have been good for him, nor could he possibly have pulled it off himself.



Hitler earned a lot of money through through book sales. Do you mean the "million dollar" events after he was Chancellor? Gee, I suppose having a government put that together is not really out of the question. Even a poor country.

Why did Hitler attack the USSR before finishing off England? Are you questioning the judgement of a guy who had millions killed for the simple sake of their religion to have sound judgement?

Who are you scapegoating Hitler off to anyway?


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Neat kid. The Iraq war set off an imbalance in the region that could only lead to a single conclusion that benefits Iran. Clinton didn't have the opportunity to manage either war (Iraq and Afghanistan) early on, that was on Bush. The Obama administration didn't start a single additional war, rather had to deal with the outcomes of what they inherited. They are accused of either being the cause of ISIS or not fighting ISIS soon enough. They made a lot of mistakes no doubt. However under two separate Democratic presidencies we have managed to finally get out of both Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> In the meantime the last two Republican presidents could only win the popular vote 1 time out of 4.



Its true Bush was the major cause of the wars, but Hillary and Kerry were in their giving their speeches to support both wars.
Then in 2009 they did nothing to reduce the wars, but instead greatly expanded the destabilization in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, etc.
The only good thing I remember is that Obama eased up on Iran.
I agree ISIS predated Obama, but I think ISIS not only was fake and a western artifact, but could have been eliminated by the US going back to the plan of dividing Iraq up into 3 regions.  It was wrong to remove autonomy of the Iraqi Sunni.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Hitler earned a lot of money through through book sales. Do you mean the "million dollar" events after he was Chancellor? Gee, I suppose having a government put that together is not really out of the question. Even a poor country.
> 
> Why did Hitler attack the USSR before finishing off England? Are you questioning the judgement of a guy who had millions killed for the simple sake of their religion to have sound judgement?
> 
> Who are you scapegoating Hitler off to anyway?



No one would have published or bought a book about the thoughts of a WWI corporal, if not being backed already.
Hitler was putting on expensive events before becoming Chancellor.  That is how he got picked to become Chancellor.

Religion has no influence on Hitler's actions at all.
That is like saying FDR has the US Japanese interned because they were Taoists.

It was clear the money Hitler was able to campaign on did not come from Germany, but US companies like GM, Std Oil, etc.


----------



## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Its true Bush was the major cause of the wars, but Hillary and Kerry were in their giving their speeches to support both wars.
> Then in 2009 they did nothing to reduce the wars, but instead greatly expanded the destabilization in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, etc.
> The only good thing I remember is that Obama eased up on Iran.
> I agree ISIS predated Obama, but I think ISIS not only was fake and a western artifact, but could have been eliminated by the US going back to the plan of dividing Iraq up into 3 regions.  It was wrong to remove autonomy of the Iraqi Sunni.


Oh, Clinton and Kerry are responsible for the destabilization of Afghanistan? Every country in the middle east was destabilized by what we started in the early Bush years. 

Obama got us out of Iraq and Biden Afghanistan.

ISIS was fake? What does that even mean? How exactly would dividing Iraq up have ended ISIS? Let's see the U.S. government would almost assuredly have setup 3 governments (way more complicated than 1) that were U.S. friendly, we wouldn't have done it any other way and somehow ISIS would have been fine with that?

Everything we did in Iraq was wrong. Should have never been there and only one president gets to take responsibility that we were there and that we fucked it up so badly so early. It's not just a coincidence that he was also a Republican. A Republican mind you who at the time received some of the same adulation that Trump has now. He was revered for his anti-intellectualism and status as a culture war hero. He fought off teh gay marriage don't ya' know? Way more than half these wingnut fucks supported that guy like they do Trump today. Some won't admit it, but we know.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Oh, Clinton and Kerry are responsible for the destabilization of Afghanistan? Every country in the middle east was destabilized by what we started in the early Bush years.
> 
> Obama got us out of Iraq and Biden Afghanistan.
> 
> ...



Yes, Kerry and Clinton.  I remember their war speeches very well.  All those WMD like atomic bombs 2 weeks away, tons of anthrax, etc.
Bush did not declare war, Congress did, and it was a democratic congress.
( an no I am not a republican, but very far left )

Obama increased our troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan.  He got out of nothing.  And in fact he got us into Libya (Stevens in Benghazi).

ISIS was all the Iraqi Sunni who used to have government jobs, like teachers, lawyers, soldiers, bureaucrats, etc., that the Shiites suddenly made all permanently unemployed.  All the US had to do was to offer them jobs.  A 3 way partitioning of Iraq would have done that, and kept the Kurds from conflicting with the Turks in Syria as well.  Would have been easy to prevent.  ISIS would not have been necessary because these Iraqi Sunni would have had their own partition.


----------



## zaangalewa (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Again, Hitler was poor and unknown when he was let out of prison early.



He got five years (minimum penalty), was imprisoned in a tolerant way like a politcal prisoner and not like a criminal - so he had many visitors and had been able to write his book "Mein K(r)ampf". He went to prison 1st of April 1924 (what somehow shows that Hitler had something like humor) and was set free on parole 20th of december 1924 (Christmas) because of the intrecession of the leader of the prison. Looks like no one saw really a crime in his trying to eliminate the Bavarian democracy.



Rigby5 said:


> Clearly he had people who were selecting him, and spent a great deal of money making him famous.



He had a big fan club.



Rigby5 said:


> Nor did Hitler have any goals or ideas that warranted him having a fan club or any supporters at all.



He had many supporters.



Rigby5 said:


> The only obvious factor was that Hitler was the most likely to mean war, and war meant munitions profits.



Hitler always said he likes peace.



Rigby5 said:


> But war was not Hitler's goal,



Hitler always prepared war.



Rigby5 said:


> and Hitler did not profit from war, so obviously Hitler was just a pawn.



You think like an US-American when you say so - that's all. To make profit with war is a shame in the view of many Germans still today. War is the question to be or not to be. ThatÄs why many Germans say US-Americans don't know what war is. 
You never had the question to be or not to be.



Rigby5 said:


> He was never powerful or in control.



He was. Whatever Hitler said was made.



Rigby5 said:


> Like Mussolini, he was the front man, the fall guy, the patsy.
> Those who invested all that money in making Hitler famous, did not lose a dime.



Hitler made Hitler famous. That's why he got more and more money.



Rigby5 said:


> They got Hitler to do exactly as they wanted, and the result of WWII was just what they wanted.



I know it is difficult to explain the unexplainable but what had happened in history had happened. Even if I fear if I would give you very self-critical textes from Germans you would also not understand why had happened what had happened.


----------



## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> He got five years (minimum penalty), was imprisoned in a tolerant way like a politcal prisoner and not like a criminal - so he had many visitors and had been able to write his book "Mein K(r)ampf". He went to prison 1st of April 1924 (what somehow shows that Hitler had something like humor) and was set free on parole 20th of december 1924 (Christmas) because of the intrecession of the leader of the prison. Looks like no one saw really a crime in his trying to eliminate the Bavarian democracy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, but in the US we understand this better because it happens here so often.
War is profits.
It funnels public tax money into private pockets, without question.
We have almost constant war in the US, with the greatest % of military spending in the world.
It makes no sense at all, but munitions means profits, and profits control the media, so we have perpetual war in the US.
It is not like the US has ever actually been threatened since 1812.

Hitler could not have created his own fan club.
No individual can ever do that unless they already are wealthy, like Trump.
Hitler was not wealthy.
So he was picked by the wealthy instead.

And I doubt those picking Hitler were German.
Hitler was not good for Germany at all.
Nor did what Hitler want, get made.
Hitler was really stupid, and wanted aircraft carriers with huge guns, tanks that were too big for bridges, and impossible fantasy weapons.
He never understood strategic bombing, why he needed to get the local support of the Soviet people, or almost anything about the conduct of war.





The Maus was silly, weighing 188 metric tons.
Hitler was the perfect leader, only if your goal was to ensure eventual defeat.
With Allies air superiority, actually Germany would have been better off with many smaller and faster tanks, not fewer, bigger ones.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Yes, Kerry and Clinton.  I remember their war speeches very well.  All those WMD like atomic bombs 2 weeks away, tons of anthrax, etc.
> Bush did not declare war, Congress did, and it was a democratic congress.
> ( an no I am not a republican, but very far left )


Actually Congress didn't declare war on Iraq or Afghanistan. The last time that happened was for WWII. What Congress did was give the Bush administration to basically do what they wanted in Iraq in the name of fighting terrorism. Big mistake. Most Democrats in Congress voted against it. Of course you won't agree with that point but here is a link that tally's up the votes. 









						Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Congressional votes:
Democrats: Ayes - 110 / Nays - 147
Republicans: Ayes - 263 / Nays - 7

Of course the more liberal you were the less likely you were to vote for it and the more conservative the more likely to be in favor of. 



Rigby5 said:


> Obama increased our troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan.  He got out of nothing.  And in fact he got us into Libya (Stevens in Benghazi).



Yes, remember when I said the Obama administration made mistakes? He also got us out of Iraq and took OBL out in Afghanistan. A much better record than both Bush and Trump. It's not easy inheriting someone other dumbfucks war that you were against. 



Rigby5 said:


> ISIS was all the Iraqi Sunni who used to have government jobs, like teachers, lawyers, soldiers, bureaucrats, etc., that the Shiites suddenly made all permanently unemployed.  All the US had to do was to offer them jobs.  A 3 way partitioning of Iraq would have done that, and kept the Kurds from conflicting with the Turks in Syria as well.  Would have been easy to prevent.  ISIS would not have been necessary because these Iraqi Sunni would have had their own partition.



It was a lot of the Iraqi military who Bush disbanded and sent packing. One of the absolute worst decisions ever made in Iraq and you want to blame Clinton, Kerry and Obama for? You've got to be fucking joking.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Actually Congress didn't declare war on Iraq or Afghanistan. The last time that happened was for WWII. What Congress did was give the Bush administration to basically do what they wanted in Iraq in the name of fighting terrorism. Big mistake. Most Democrats in Congress voted against it. Of course you won't agree with that point but here is a link that tally's up the votes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Joint Resolution for the Use of Force in Iraq was passed mostly by Hillary and Kerry speeches, and essentially was a declaration of war, since Bush already gave his opinion.

I don't believe Obama got us out of Iraq at all, and killing OBL was a terrible idea, We needed OBL alive.
But I will agree it was Bush who created ISIS and it was before Obama.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The Joint Resolution for the Use of Force in Iraq was passed mostly by Hillary and Kerry speeches, and essentially was a declaration of war, since Bush already gave his opinion.



Really? The Republicans who had a majority in both houses looked to Clinton and Kerry? Again, most Democrats voted against the war. Also Clinton and Kerry did not execute the early parts of the war. Basically not taking care of Afghanistan early on because we had a new shiny toy in Iraq and then they weren't SOS when we clearly fucked that up from the get go. 




Rigby5 said:


> I don't believe Obama got us out of Iraq at all, and killing OBL was a terrible idea, We needed OBL alive.
> But I will agree it was Bush who created ISIS and it was before Obama.



Getting out of Iraq happened while Obama was the president. Not Bush. We got out of Afghanistan under Biden, Not Bush, Obama or Trump. That means Democrats ended both wars.

What did we need OBL alive for?


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## Rigby5 (Sep 13, 2021)

HappyJoy said:


> Really? The Republicans who had a majority in both houses looked to Clinton and Kerry? Again, most Democrats voted against the war. Also Clinton and Kerry did not execute the early parts of the war. Basically not taking care of Afghanistan early on because we had a new shiny toy in Iraq and then they weren't SOS when we clearly fucked that up from the get go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Without the Hillary and Kerry speeches, the joint resolution likely would have failed.

Iraq told Obama to get out, Obama did not get out, and he kept troops there against the wishes of Iraq.

One can not really say Biden got out of Afghanistan, but that he just totally screwed it up.
Getting out would have been to arrange a coalition new government.
Just leaving a mess unfinished accomplishes nothing.

We needed Osama live to tell what really happened?
I doubt OBL was the leader.  
KSM was the organizer.
But the FBI and CIA are both implicated.
I also doubt OBL is dead even.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Without the Hillary and Kerry speeches, the joint resolution likely would have failed.



Let's see, a majority of Democrats voted against it  and an overwhelming number of Republicans voted for it. Republicans had the majority in both houses. But somehow it came down to those two speeches. What is your evidence?  Also, again, Clinton and Kerry were not the SOS when we lost both wars early on. 



Rigby5 said:


> Iraq told Obama to get out, Obama did not get out, and he kept troops there against the wishes of Iraq.


And Republicans were blaming Obama for leaving. Can't have it both ways, according to them they would have stayed regardless of what Iraq wanted and that's probably true. 



Rigby5 said:


> One can not really say Biden got out of Afghanistan, but that he just totally screwed it up.



No, one can totally say that Biden got us out of Afghanistan.  Like every other administration since Bush mistakes were made but overall we are out, thank god. 




Rigby5 said:


> Getting out would have been to arrange a coalition new government.
> Just leaving a mess unfinished accomplishes nothing.



Oh, so another 20 years or so with no guarantees. OK. We learned our lesson, we can't just mold Afghanistan (or Iraq) into any old form of government we please. 



Rigby5 said:


> We needed Osama live to tell what really happened?


We kind of know what happened. 



Rigby5 said:


> I doubt OBL was the leader.


I kind of think it's obvious he was at least at one time. 



Rigby5 said:


> KSM was the organizer.


Yes, he was.



Rigby5 said:


> But the FBI and CIA are both implicated.


In 9/11? Ohhhhhh, I see. 



Rigby5 said:


> I also doubt OBL is dead even.


Of course you do. Then that must be excellent news for you, look at all the good he is doing now that he's alive.


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## zaangalewa (Sep 13, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Sorry, but in the US we understand this better because it happens here so often.



President Hitler the XXXth?



Rigby5 said:


> War is profits.



In your US-American way to think. What you call war is for other people in the world a Sunday afternoon walk.



Rigby5 said:


> It funnels public tax money into private pockets, without question.
> We have almost constant war in the US, with the greatest % of military spending in the world.
> It makes no sense at all, but munitions means profits, and profits control the media, so we have perpetual war in the US.
> It is not like the US has ever actually been threatened since 1812.
> ...



He used an existing one called DAP, changed the name to NSDAP, made the Swastika flag and some nice uniforms and ready was his active fan club.



Rigby5 said:


> No individual can ever do that unless they already are wealthy, like Trump.



What's wrong.



Rigby5 said:


> Hitler was not wealthy.



He had been poor.



Rigby5 said:


> So he was picked by the wealthy instead.
> 
> And I doubt those picking Hitler were German.
> Hitler was not good for Germany at all.



That's somehow an element of all tyrants.



Rigby5 said:


> Nor did what Hitler want, get made.



Hitler gave an order and what he ordered was made.



Rigby5 said:


> Hitler was really stupid,



Was he?



Rigby5 said:


> and wanted aircraft carriers with huge guns, tanks that were too big for bridges, and impossible fantasy weapons.
> He never understood strategic bombing, why he needed to get the local support of the Soviet people, or almost anything about the conduct of war.



The effect of the "strategic bombing" of the allies on Germany was it to make world war 2 longer.



Rigby5 said:


> The Maus was silly, weighing 188 metric tons.



A mouse with 188 tons has for sure adipositas.



Rigby5 said:


> Hitler was the perfect leader,



A perfect leader has to be really stupid?



Rigby5 said:


> only if your goal was to ensure eventual defeat.



You think Hitler liked to win world war 2? Interesting hypothese.



Rigby5 said:


> With Allies air superiority, actually Germany would have been better off with many smaller and faster tanks, not fewer, bigger ones.



Good grief. We normally had made airships. Airships are damned good on many reasons. But the world prefers aeroplanes because aeroplanes are weapons.


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