# 7 Reasons Why You Should Home School Your Kids



## longknife (May 27, 2018)

Before even looking at the 7, my response is – because the current public school system sucks! Grads can’t read, write, or do math. All they can do is earn participation awards. But, here are the reason cited by the author:

_It fosters family intimacy_

_It allows for controlled socialization with peers_

_Home Schooling Ensures Congruency Between Your Values, Teaching, Beliefs, and Education _

_It Removes the Tension Between the World Your Child Lives in at School and the World They Live in at Home_

_It Enables You To Tailor the Educational Approach You Take With Your Child_

_Home Schooling Affords the Flexibility for Family Time, Excursions, Travel and Serving_

_Home Schooling Gives You the Freedom to Let Your Child Chase Their Individual Gifts and Passions_

Why the hell do they have to use verbiage like that? Why not make it simple so people like me can understand it?

Makes the family closer

Parents can decide who the kids play and get together with

You can mesh your values, beliefs, and education

No more hangups about school and home

You can set up the program you and you kid agree on

The family can decide what and when to do things

Kinda repeats an earlier one

Another repeat of an earlier one

You kid can go after what they like and can do best.

Now, ain’t that better?

Read the rest of the stuff @ Should You Homeschool Your Children? Seven Reasons Why You Should


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 27, 2018)

longknife said:


> Why the hell do they have to use verbiage like that? Why not make it simple so people like me can understand it?





Be happy you don't live in the 18th-19th Centuries.  Talk about verbosity.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 27, 2018)

Homeschooling also carries another plus!

If you are a moron, it almost guarantees your kids will NOT grow up to be as smart as you are, thus damning them to a life of poverty.

Home schooling is great for those who can do it. I just hate when people claim it is a panacea.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 27, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Homeschooling also carries another plus!
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> If you are a moron, it almost guarantees your kids will NOT grow up to be as smart as you are, thus damning them to a life of poverty.
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> Home schooling is great for those who can do it. I just hate when people claim it is a panacea.



If you yourself can't do it, you can always co-op with others.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (May 27, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Homeschooling also carries another plus!
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> If you are a moron, it almost guarantees your kids will NOT grow up to be as smart as you are, thus damning them to a life of poverty.
> 
> Home schooling is great for those who can do it. I just hate when people claim it is a panacea.



A lot of home schooled kids are schooled with other kids at other homes and groups of parents take turns.  It's not just necessarily you and your kid all the time.  Every home schooled kid I've met has been far more well rounded than the average brat running around.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (May 27, 2018)

longknife said:


> Why the hell do they have to use verbiage like that? Why not make it simple so people like me can understand it?
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> Makes the family closer
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This is why the left hates it.  It limits their power and influence over other people's children.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 27, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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You just have not had homeschooled kids dropped into your high school class without any significant math skills.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (May 27, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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I'm sure that happens here and there, but by and large home schooled kids run circles around public school kids.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 27, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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That's an assumption on your part because there is simply no data to support that they do any better or worse.  They should do better considering they often have more direct teacher-student contact, but there again it is an assumption.

My daughter-in-law homeschooled my granddaughter for a while, and did it well.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 27, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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These stats are reflected in numerous studies.



The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests. (The public school average is the 50th percentile; scores range from 1 to 99.) A 2015 study found Black homeschool students to be scoring 23 to 42 percentile points above Black public school students (Ray, 2015).

Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income.

Whether homeschool parents were ever certified teachers is not related to their children’s academic achievement.

Degree of state control and regulation of homeschooling is not related to academic achievement.

Home-educated students typically score above average on the SAT and ACT tests that colleges consider for admissions.

Homeschool students are increasingly being actively recruited by colleges.



Research Facts on Homeschooling - National Home Education Research Institute


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## jasonnfree (May 27, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> longknife said:
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Link?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 27, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Let me explain for about the hundredth time, look at your source.  Would you expect them to say anything else?

Also, I have explained self-selection bias so many times, you should know why this data is either made up or bogus.

There is every reason why most homeschool kids SHOULD do better than their public school peers, but don't try to piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 27, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Let me explain one time.  Numerous sources.  Do your homework.


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## rightwinger (May 27, 2018)

Seven reasons to homeschool

1. Keep your kids from going to school with negroes, Hispanics, Muslims
2. Allows you to pick your kids friends
3. Keeps them from learning about evolution
4. Keeps them from learning that homosexuals are not evil
5  Keeps them away from liberals
6. Enables them to learn that global warming is a myth
7. Allows you to sleep in if you want


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## hadit (May 27, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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And if you use an online curriculum, you can have teachers online to help.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (May 27, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Seven reasons to homeschool
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> 1. Keep your kids from going to school with negroes, Hispanics, Muslims
> 2. Allows you to pick your kids friends
> ...



LOL I’m friends with a Hispanic family that homeschools their kids, so that busts your racial troll bait right there


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## rightwinger (May 27, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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Look at me!

I know a Hispanic family


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (May 27, 2018)

rightwinger said:


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I’m sure your parents are proud


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## Toro (May 27, 2018)

I really think that you shouldn't home school your children unless you are a trained teacher.

One of our friends was a trained teacher, she home schooled her kid, and he is now a software engineer at a big software company in the northwest.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 27, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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I have a Masters degree in Education.  This was one of my areas of concentration.  Have a nice day with your bogus sources!  There are no sources that definitively prove your theory.


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## rightwinger (May 27, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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Bill Cosby has a Doctorate in Education


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## frigidweirdo (May 27, 2018)

longknife said:


> Before even looking at the 7, my response is – because the current public school system sucks! Grads can’t read, write, or do math. All they can do is earn participation awards. But, here are the reason cited by the author:
> 
> _It fosters family intimacy_
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> ...



So they grow up socially stunted. 

Because you're paranoid.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 27, 2018)

hadit said:


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Very true!

I am not anti-home schooling at all, but I am anti-home schooling supporters who spout lies to justify their choices.


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## psikeyhackr (May 29, 2018)

*Home Schooling the Science Fiction Way*



> I think we need to use emerging technology to tell stories, answer questions on the fly, help students to visualize _everything_.  Some form of virtual reality, I think, so that textbooks come alive, and information is provided on the spot as required.   Online courses, whether traditional or those that will make use of new technology, can compete and be shared.   Future teachers will really need to be on the ball to make sure the information is good, to be able to lead students through interactive environments, address individual interests and needs, and to inspire.
> 
> Learning shouldn’t be hard.   Learning shouldn’t be slow.   Learning shouldn’t be a bore.



Home Schooling the Science Fiction Way

Our schools are about making kids compete with each other even at subjects they are not interested in.  It's just the grades that matter.


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## psikeyhackr (May 29, 2018)

frigidweirdo said:


> So they grow up socially stunted.
> 
> Because you're paranoid.



Schools just have a different method of manufacturing people that are socially stunted.  No organized people can figure out how to fix the schools.


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## psikeyhackr (May 29, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I have a Masters degree in Education.  This was one of my areas of concentration.  Have a nice day with your bogus sources!  There are no sources that definitively prove your theory.



So why is education so screwed up if our educational institutions are full of educated people with degrees?


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## rightwinger (May 29, 2018)

Reason number 8 for homeschooling 

8. Your kids are socially awkward and do not mix well with other students


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## Cecilie1200 (May 29, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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I homeschool, and anyone who thinks it's dependent strictly on what I personally know is a dumbass.  I'm not inventing this shit myself on the fly, y'know, any more than - presumably - teachers in a school are creating curriculum and materials out of their own heads.  I provide my son with professionally-produced materials, same as the public schools.  The difference is, I get to choose and vet the materials, and I get to introduce them in the order I choose, at the speed of my son's learning.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 29, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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I've seen a lot more public school kids dropped into college classes without any significant math skills.  Would you like to compare notes?


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## Cecilie1200 (May 29, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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So what you're saying is that you're denigrating his source as biased, while being a biased source yourself?


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## boedicca (May 29, 2018)

8.  Homeschooling reduces the risk that your child will be brain-washed into being a Participation Trophy Craving SFJ Whinging Bully.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 29, 2018)

boedicca said:


> 8.  Homeschooling reduces the risk that your child will be brain-washed into being a Participation Trophy Craving SFJ Whinging Bully.



When I began homeschooling, back with my daughter (who is now 28), I was more concerned with my kids being brainwashed into ill-mannered little savages, like so many children seemed to be.  NOW, with my last one, I'm worried more about the leftist spin, although I'm still worried about the civilization aspect.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


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Newsflash:  Politicians run the schools. They are local politicians who usually are uneducated peons elected to school boards.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


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No.  Those kids may not be college material but the home schooled kids I see have to get through high school and may have an elementary level set of math skills.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Educational statistics proves his data is biased.  Perhaps if you understood it, you might recognize that you cannot compare apples to oranges and have a valid comparison.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

boedicca said:


> 8.  Homeschooling reduces the risk that your child will be brain-washed into being a Participation Trophy Craving SFJ Whinging Bully.



What's "whinging"?


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## basquebromance (May 30, 2018)

my son Emilio likes school to a certain extent. you know kids, they like school. but when the teacher tries to teach him something, he can't be bothered...


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## boedicca (May 30, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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It's an English term.  Think of it as Whining^2.  Or Whining + Cringing.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

boedicca said:


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Are you English or looking for an excuse as to why you spelled it wrong?


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## IsaacNewton (May 30, 2018)

I like this trend of conservatives to reject structured schooling and to reject college.

The world needs ditch diggers and burger flippers.


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## boedicca (May 30, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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I am part English, but anyone can use the word "whinge".  It's quite expressive.


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## Winston (May 30, 2018)

Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?

Look, you can't send you kids to public school and then go on auto-pilot.  You have to be involved.  You have to be aware of what they are being taught, aware of what their assignments are, and aware of the influence of both the other students and the teachers.  If you can't overpower that influence, then yeah, you probably ought to home school your children.  But don't act like that makes you some kind of hero.  It makes you a coward.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 30, 2018)

Winston said:


> Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> 
> Look, you can't send you kids to public school and then go on auto-pilot.  You have to be involved.  You have to be aware of what they are being taught, aware of what their assignments are, and aware of the influence of both the other students and the teachers.  If you can't overpower that influence, then yeah, you probably ought to home school your children.  But don't act like that makes you some kind of hero.  It makes you a coward.



Your post is puerile at best, but I'll offer you an opportunity to explain this little bon-mot.

"... it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society."

How so?


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## The Sage of Main Street (May 30, 2018)

*Team/Reward Concept*

The problem is that both homeschooling and contemporary public education isolate each student.  There is no grouping, as there is in sports or other social interactions.

Why look up to the pundits?  They are the broken products of this same education; they're too dumbed down to offer any effective solutions. In their dim smugness, none of them offer this, which is based on how children normally interact with one another:

Divide the class into teams.  Quiz frequently.  The highest-scoring team will get Friday off; the lowest one has to come in on Saturday.  Top individualist scorers from four grades older will get paid to teach the Saturday class.


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## Winston (May 30, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Winston said:
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> > Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> ...



So, my son was texting me a couple of weeks ago.  He turned 23 today.  He attended public school, graduated from a public university, and, at 23, is top of his class in a Phd program at, you guessed it, a public university.  He works full-time for a research facility and is knocking down right at six figures.  He bought a nice home in a bedroom community.  He is getting married in September and he told me he and his fiancee were discussing home schooling their children.  I gave him the same comment, it is all about social interaction.  He said that many home-schoolers participated in networks where they engaged with other home schooled students and parents.  My response was that all those other children were just as alike as the damn houses in his cookie cutter neighborhood.  Without the exposure to diversity that a public school entails, home schooled students are put at a distinct disadvantage when they enter the real world.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 30, 2018)

Winston said:


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Because of current societal norms, I find your tale questionable.

That said, knowledge of diversity is indeed useful.

But, living in diversity where all things are set to a lower denominator to accommodate those less academically inclined?  Not so much.

Put a diamond in a mud puddle, and it will soon be lost.  Exposure to diversity can as easily be accomplished by participation in extracurricular programs.


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## psikeyhackr (May 30, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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So it is politicians that kids interact with 5 days a week?  I went to Catholic schools but I suppose politicians kept the nuns from using the science books they had sitting o a shelf.

I was doing network and wi-fi work at a high school a year ago.  It was a charter school.  I asked half-a-dozen teachers about Project Gutenberg.  Most said they never heard of it.  One said she used it.  I asked her if she told the students about it and she said no.  Some of the books I used for English literature back in the day are now in PG.  How do politicians keep teachers from mentioning that to kids?


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 30, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


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It didn't stop them at my school.  The nuns not only used them, but got pretty good at cracking people in the back of the head with them when they felt it was necessary.


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## psikeyhackr (May 30, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Our nuns had miniature baseball bats and did not need books.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 30, 2018)

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Ours also had long hickory map pointers.


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## hadit (May 30, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> I like this trend of conservatives to reject structured schooling and to reject college.
> 
> The world needs ditch diggers and burger flippers.



You need to get out more and meet real people. This little bubble of yours is quite restrictive.


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## hadit (May 30, 2018)

Winston said:


> Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> 
> Look, you can't send you kids to public school and then go on auto-pilot.  You have to be involved.  You have to be aware of what they are being taught, aware of what their assignments are, and aware of the influence of both the other students and the teachers.  If you can't overpower that influence, then yeah, you probably ought to home school your children.  But don't act like that makes you some kind of hero.  It makes you a coward.



Most home schooling parents are extremely involved in their children's schooling. That's why home schooled children in general perform so well.


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## hadit (May 30, 2018)

Winston said:


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That's your theory. Reality is a bit different.


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## Winston (May 30, 2018)

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I hear you.  He is exceptional.  But the lowest common denominator thing is a total copout.  Tell me, why can't you, as a parent, supplement the teaching going on at public schools in order to prevent the "diamond" from getting lost in the mud?  My strategy, as a parent, was to immediately call bullshit on some of the lame teaching going on in the public school.  Like the whole Christopher Columbus flat earth bullshit. Or George Washington as some great military leader.  The truth is public schools are years behind contemporary science and research.  It is the job of the parent to stay current, to both supplement, and sometimes contradict, the teachings of a public school, or even a private school.  And you better bring evidence and have a winning argument, otherwise, like I said, you should probably home school.

And no, extracurricular activities are no more "diverse" than that neighborhood my son lives in.  Football players play football and debate team members debate.  Do you really thing if your child participated in either activity they would be exposed to diversity?  Poor students can't afford the equipment to play football nor can poor students afford the supplies and travel expenses of a top flight forensics squad.  Hell, there are high school debate teams that fly on private jets.  You think that is a diverse group of people?


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## Winston (May 30, 2018)

hadit said:


> Winston said:
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> ...



No shit sherlock, which is why any "statistic" touting the superiority of home schooling is so worthless.  Those results don't come from home schooling, they come from parental involvement.  Like I said, you can't send your kids to a public school and let it run on autopilot.  There is no reason whatsoever that a parent of a public school student can't be actively involved in their child's education.


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## hadit (May 30, 2018)

Winston said:


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It would appear then that the parents most involved with their children's education are the ones who decided to get the government schools out of the way and do the teaching themselves.


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## psikeyhackr (May 30, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Ours also had long hickory map pointers.



I remember those.  Black tip kind of parabolic on shape, not conical.  How do you know it was hickory?


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 30, 2018)

Winston said:


> Tell me, why can't you, as a parent, supplement the teaching going on at public schools in order to prevent the "diamond" from getting lost in the mud?



Why leave it in the mud in the first place?  We pulled ours out of the system, and my wife, a certified teacher in one of the better public systems in the country, directed the homeschooling effort, along with others.  We were most gratified with the end product.



Winston said:


> My strategy, as a parent, was to immediately call bullshit on some of the lame teaching going on in the public school.



Knock yourself out.  I myself had neither the time nor the inclination to be a crusader in the mode of Don Quixote, or to provide remedial instruction to assumed professionals, and certainly not free of charge.



Winston said:


> And no, extracurricular activities are no more "diverse" than that neighborhood my son lives in.  Football players play football and debate team members debate.  Do you really thing if your child participated in either activity they would be exposed to diversity?



I surmise that your idea of what constitutes diversity differs from my own.



Winston said:


> Poor students can't afford the equipment to play football nor can poor students afford the supplies and travel expenses of a top flight forensics squad.  Hell, there are high school debate teams that fly on private jets.  You think that is a diverse group of people?



None of that is or was any concern of mine outside charitable efforts.  There will always be inequality so long as people are diverse in drive, talents and abilities.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 30, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


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One once said.


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## IsaacNewton (May 30, 2018)

hadit said:


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At least that's what the voices in your head tell you.


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## Winston (May 30, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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The reason you don't run from the mud, 

*Life is made up of marble and mud.

Nathaniel Hawthorne
*
You send your kid to public schools because, at some point, they are going to have to deal with the public.  Would you rather them go into the world with damn near zero experience with the public, or with thirteen years of experience?  I have never believed in "protecting" or "hiding" my kids from all that is bad in the world.  My youngest, a Philosophy major, and I were laughing today about him playing Grand Theft Auto at five.


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## Jarlaxle (May 30, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Team/Reward Concept*
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> The problem is that both homeschooling and contemporary public education isolate each student.  There is no grouping, as there is in sports or other social interactions.
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Are you for real?


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## Jarlaxle (May 30, 2018)

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The midshipman isn't big on "facts".


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## Jarlaxle (May 30, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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They must be...he still lives in their basement, after all.


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## Jarlaxle (May 30, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


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> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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News flash: plenty of public school students are sent to high school with elementary (if that) levels of math skill!  Hell, some of them are flat-out illiterate.


----------



## hadit (May 30, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> > IsaacNewton said:
> ...


I don't hear voices in my head.  Those are all yours.  And, BTW,. no one is rejecting structured schooling and college.  That's just a figment of your imagination, amplified by the restrictive walls of your little bubble.  You know, the one you need to get out of so you can meet real people.

What smart people ARE rejecting is wasted time, money, and effort.  Smart people don't want to pay 6 figures for a degree that generates no significant income.  Smart people don't want to subject their kids to 12 years of government schooling that barely teaches them to read and understand basic math but allows them to be bullied and deal with gangs and drug dealers all day.  But hey, at least they learn how to put a condom on a banana and all about strange sexual practices.

Apparently, there are some not so smart people.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 30, 2018)

Winston said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



No, we send a child to school for an education.

Ours had plenty of exposure to "the public", both good and bad.  The difference was that at the end of the homeschool process, his education was quite deep, he was impervious to the usual indoctrination scams of the public system, and he understood why "the public" behaves as it does.


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## psikeyhackr (May 30, 2018)

Does this apply to teachers also?

*What Kind Of Parent Are You: Carpenter Or Gardener?*
What Kind Of Parent Are You: Carpenter Or Gardener?


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## koshergrl (May 30, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...


He is an alleged educator. Next to journalists they are the most ignorant assholes out there.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Team/Reward Concept*
> 
> The problem is that both homeschooling and contemporary public education isolate each student.  There is no grouping, as there is in sports or other social interactions.
> 
> ...



Incredibly stupid idea.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
> ...



The curriculums are determined by the politicians.  Did you not know this?

Teachers have almost no decisions when it comes down to what to teach because the tests that politicians require to prove the schools accountable require you to teach certain materials and topics.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 30, 2018)

hadit said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> > Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> ...



Well DUH!

If I was only teaching one or two kids, I could do a much better job than someone teaching 30-35 kids.


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## hadit (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



All the more reason for parents to take control.


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## hadit (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



Sounds like more parents should do it.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2018)

hadit said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > psikeyhackr said:
> ...



Maybe if you people would elect someone to your local school boards that actually knew anything about education, that would help also.  The highest education level of most school board members is an associate's degree from some no-name junior college.  It's sad when every teacher in their district outclasses them (pun intended).


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Ahhh, yes.  The ever-popular, and terribly impressive, argument of "If you knew as much as me . . ."  Handy, if people are dumb enough to just accept your word and a lofty attitude in _lieu_ of proof.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > 8.  Homeschooling reduces the risk that your child will be brain-washed into being a Participation Trophy Craving SFJ Whinging Bully.
> ...



British slang for "bitching and complaining".  You must not read books written by British people very much.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Or maybe YOU are just looking to cover for the fact that you're not very well-read.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Winston said:


> Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> 
> Look, you can't send you kids to public school and then go on auto-pilot.  You have to be involved.  You have to be aware of what they are being taught, aware of what their assignments are, and aware of the influence of both the other students and the teachers.  If you can't overpower that influence, then yeah, you probably ought to home school your children.  But don't act like that makes you some kind of hero.  It makes you a coward.



So do you have an actual study or poll to support your confident assertion of "This is what they are thinking", or are you just treating us to your Miss Cleo act and projecting your own biases against homeschoolers onto them?  SOMEONE here is in serious denial about the realities of parenting, but it's not the homeschoolers.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

hadit said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> > Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> ...



It's amazing how motivated you can become in your teaching when YOU are actually, personally going to have to support the little snot the rest of his life if you don't do it well.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (May 31, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



If you knew as much as me you wouldn't spout off so much bullshit.  THAT is the truth.

Now, show me a valid comparison of all  public school students, private school students, and home schooled kids where they all were assessed using the same standardized test?

You cannot because it does not exist.

I suggest you go back to school, and get a Master's degree in education so you will be able to understand complex concepts such as educational statistics and assessments.  When you do, we can have a discussion.  Until then, you are simply a dumbass spouting Googled terms.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Winston said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



Why can't I, as a parent, supplement the teaching at the public school?  I think a better question is, "Why am I, as a parent, wasting time sending him to public school at all, if I'm going to have to do the job anyway?"

As for "diversity", perhaps YOU view this as an axiomatic good; I don't.  Whether or not diversity is a valuable thing depends entirely on the KIND of diversity in question.  Contact with other, civilized cultures?  Absolutely.  Contact with other belief systems and creeds?  You betcha.  Other races?  Meh.  I'm relatively indifferent to this, except insofar as it involves the aforementioned "other cultures and creeds".    Of course, I have a lot of room to be indifferent, since I live in an area where it would be virtually impossible to NOT encounter other races and ethnicities, AND I have a family which happens to include a lot of races and ethnicities.  But diversity in terms of being around less-civilized, less-intelligent people?  Nope.  Seeing no value there at all.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Winston said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



I'm betting Mr. Hawthorne avoided slogging through the mud every chance he got, same as any sane person.  Mud exists, but that's no reason to go wallowing in it with the pigs.

Perhaps YOUR life requires you to rub elbows with any and all riffraff that comes down the pike.  Most people's lives do not.  In fact, for most people, the ONLY time in their lives when their associations are decided strictly by age group and ZIP code, rather than by similarity of interests, educations, and backgrounds, is when they're in public school . . . IF they go to public school.

_I _have never believed that "the world sucks" provided me with an excuse to simply toss my children to the wolves and shrug my shoulders.  I suspect that your children, and you, despite your constant bragging about THIS degree and THAT job and whatever, are probably not people I would actually want to be around socially on any level.  It's amazing how people can be "successful" by what passes for modern standards, and utterly fail by the standards that really matter . . . at least, the standards that matter to people who homeschool.

Before you ask, let me spell it out for you.  I certainly want my children to have a good knowledge of basic academics; obviously, I don't want to send my kids into the world functionally illiterate (and believe me, my standards on what constitutes "literate" are far higher than most people's) and incapable of handling at least basic algebra, for example.  And I want them to love and enjoy the process of learning and the state of knowing things and the experience of working hard for something and then succeeding at it.

But beyond that, the degrees you wave at everyone as some sort of proof that "See?  I'm the BESTEST parent" don't mean much to me.  If my kids feel the need to have them, then I want them to do so, and to be able to do so.  But if they don't want them, that's fine with me, as well.  I look around me at this society, and I see people with all the bells and whistles that you seem to prize, but with appalling manners, the morals of a drunken alleycat, and a complete inability to have a happy, meaningful life.  And I wonder seriously what benefit my kids could possibly get from associating with the children those people are raising to be just like their parents.  Nope.  Sorry.

My children have excellent manners and etiquette, far advanced over most adults I've ever encountered and more than sufficient to carry them through any type of necessary social encounter, although I suspect they - like me - come of as snobbish to people who run the risk of appearing on "Cops" someday.  I'm okay with that.  They socialize with people of all ages, from a wide variety of demographics, but all with some sort of common interest to them . . . exactly the way adults do, if only they realized it.  And most importantly to me, they are good people, with compassionate hearts, strong moral compasses, solid life philosophies, and common sense.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Jarlaxle said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



I can attest that most adults I meet these days are functionally illiterate and culturally retarded.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



An excellent reason NOT to send my child to be part of the crowd, then.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



Catholic school.  My 6th Grade class.  37 Students.  One (1) nun.  No discipline problems.  Everyone passed.


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## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



If you knew as much as you think you do, YOU wouldn't spout off so much bullshit.  THAT is the truth.

I don't have to show you jack shit, Sparkles, because I don't need your permission or your blessing to decide that the public schools are a substandard educational choice, and I can do better than that for the most precious people in my life.  When you figure out that all your "statistics and assessments" and "complex concepts" are just jargon for "This is why you shouldn't blame ME for the crappy job I'm doing", we can have a discussion.  Until then, you are simply a dumbass spouting excuses.

Oh, also, while you're trying to protect your job, you might consider that the inconsistency between proclaiming that public schools are "much better" than homeschooling and also whining about "of COURSE we suck, because look how much harder it is for us" is glaringly obvious to everyone.


----------



## Winston (May 31, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



Your post is quite telling and sounds like the typical self-righteous home schooler.  And your "standards" are laughable.  Basic algebra? Seriously?  But mostly, I have to wonder, what grocery store to you shop at, you know, the one where all the customers share the same common interest.  Where do you get your gas, buy your clothes, go out to eat?  I mean I really want to know where this place is that all the daily interactions are with people that have the same common interest.  It's got to be the most boring place on earth.

And I don't give a shit rather you believe me or not.  But I will put my kids up against anyone's when it comes to "good people, compassionate hearts, strong moral compasses, solid life philosophies, and common sense".  But I want to add another quality that my children possess that I am pretty damn sure your's don't and you most certainly don't.  They are good citizens.  The reason I say you are not, and your kids probably don't, is that one of the "duties" of a good citizen is, and I quote, from the Department of Homeland Security,

*Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others*

Now I know, I live in a pretty unique area in terms of both diversity and inclusion.  My kids went to the same public high school that I did, and my mother before me.  A public school where neighboring school districts recommend students that have suffered bullying, that have been "left out", or made fun of due to everything from disabilities to appearance, attend.  And perhaps even more rare, the school not only allows them to attend even when living out of the district, but openly recruit them.  It is as if the school had it's very own Statue of Liberty and actually lived by the poetry inscribed beneath.

But honestly, I am going to tell you the biggest difference between you and I.  You are SKEERED.  Yep, scared that those "other people" are going to influence your kids.  But I know, my kids are the influencers, and I have seen it time and time again in my 150 years of child raising experience.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (May 31, 2018)

Winston said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



Predictably, you utterly misunderstand.

What you interpret as "self-righteous homeschooler" is simply the painfully obvious - to everyone but you, apparently - reaction of anyone having to listen to YOUR self-righteous tripe about how wrong WE are for not raising our children the way YOU chose to do.  Perhaps if you find the way people respond to you objectionable, you might consider not being an obnoxious, offensive braggart.

Furthermore, I did not say anything about "standards".  That is YOUR interpretation, presumably drawn from your own desperate desire to denigrate homeschoolers and justify the callous and lackadaisical attitude toward parenting you describe in your self-congratulating diatribes.  What I mentioned are not "standards"; they are basic minimums, which are tied to the things you mysteriously don't mention, such as "love of learning".  Not everyone NEEDS more than basic algebra (that would be basic COLLEGE algebra) in their lives.  If they do, or if they simply wish to know more, then they study that.  In actuality, of the two children I have who have already graduated high school, my daughter stopped after algebra, because her career field doesn't require more (she's a phlebotomist, not that it's any of your business).  My older son is studying video game design, and computer programming has higher requirements.  The youngest currently wants to be a zookeeper, but since he's 9, that will probably change.  He will almost certainly continue much farther than algebra, simply because he loves doing math.

As for "interactions", perhaps if you hadn't slacked off and made do with public school, you would be able to read and use English more precisely.  Please see the paragraph regarding the fact that my children have excellent manners - certainly in excess of YOURS - which are more than sufficient to carry them through any type of necessary social encounter.  I would be sorry that I apparently used words with too many syllables for you to grasp, except that I'm really not; translated, that means "going to grocery stores, buying gas", all those minor momentary contacts that you want to conflate with actually associating with people, ie. having a job, joining clubs, going to church, dating . . . all the times in life when adults have long-term contact with other adults.



Winston said:


> And I don't give a shit rather you believe me or not.  But I will put my kids up against anyone's when it comes to "good people, compassionate hearts, strong moral compasses, solid life philosophies, and common sense".



OF COURSE you don't give a shit "rather"[sic] I believe you or not.  That is why you keep posting all these "my son, the fill-in-the-blank-degree" to brag about how your _laissez-faire_ parenting MUST have been good.

I'm sure you think your kids turned out wonderfully as human beings; you almost have to, to rationalize away the fact that you made very little effort to make that happen, and by your own admission, hindered that outcome as much as possible.  Perhaps I do your kids a disservice by taking your descriptions of them at face value, but if you are, in fact, being completely honest about them, then I stand by my statement that I would not care to associate with them.  Certainly, if they turned out anything like you, I wouldn't even want them as neighbors on my street.



Winston said:


> But I want to add another quality that my children possess that I am pretty damn sure your's don't and you most certainly don't.  They are good citizens.  The reason I say you are not, and your kids probably don't, is that one of the "duties" of a good citizen is, and I quote, from the Department of Homeland Security,
> 
> *Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others*
> 
> ...



And you are holding yourself and your spawn up as shining examples of "respecting the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others" based on what?  The tolerant and understanding attitude you've shown toward homeschoolers?

Would THIS be an example of your idea of "respect":

_"Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children. But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children. They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students. To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills. And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society. What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?"
_
Or is that merely an example of your hypocrisy?

You're damned right I'm scared of unacceptable people influencing my kids, and only a imbecile wouldn't be.  You just got done telling me all about the wonders of your kids' public school that "recruits", and I quote directly here, "students that have suffered bullying, that have been "left out", or made fun of due to everything from disabilities to appearance".  Pretty obviously, I'm not the only parent who is afraid of negative influences, and equally obviously, YOU think being afraid of it is warranted and sensible . . . so long as the reaction is to hunt up a special public school, instead of cutting through the hassle and simply handling it myself.

It is the job of a parent to protect their children from things they are too young and helpless to handle themselves, something you apparently forgot or never knew with your "the world is full of shit, so let 'em roll in it and get used to it" attitude.  It is also the job of a parent to help the child learn, as they grow up, to handle those things themselves.  It's the difference between teaching your child to swim, and simply throwing him in the deep end of the pool and expecting him to figure it out with no guidance.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 31, 2018)

Winston said:


> one of the "duties" of a good citizen is, and I quote, from the Department of Homeland Security,
> 
> *Respect the rights, beliefs, and opinions of others*



No.

Rights?  Of course.

Beliefs?  Perhaps.

Respect stupidity?  Never.


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## Jessica123 (May 31, 2018)

How the fuck do you expect *most people *to find the time considering that most of this country is going to have to work at least 8-12 hours per day to give more money to the rich.


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## hadit (May 31, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



That's one reason why I usually recommend an online curriculum, with teachers available to help.


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## bodecea (May 31, 2018)

longknife said:


> Before even looking at the 7, my response is – because the current public school system sucks! Grads can’t read, write, or do math. All they can do is earn participation awards. But, here are the reason cited by the author:
> 
> _It fosters family intimacy_
> 
> ...


The public schools will thank you trumpanzees.


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## bodecea (May 31, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...


Ouch!


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## bodecea (May 31, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Masters degree in Education.  This was one of my areas of concentration.  Have a nice day with your bogus sources!  There are no sources that definitively prove your theory.
> ...


Public education has to take everyone, regardless of ability or desire or home life.


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## Unkotare (May 31, 2018)

Winston said:


> Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> 
> Look, you can't send you kids to public school and then go on auto-pilot.  You have to be involved.  You have to be aware of what they are being taught, aware of what their assignments are, and aware of the influence of both the other students and the teachers.  If you can't overpower that influence, then yeah, you probably ought to home school your children.  But don't act like that makes you some kind of hero.  It makes you a coward.







Why are some of y’all so obviously terrified of homeschooling?


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## bodecea (May 31, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > 8.  Homeschooling reduces the risk that your child will be brain-washed into being a Participation Trophy Craving SFJ Whinging Bully.
> ...


Homeschooling term.


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## Unkotare (May 31, 2018)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Team/Reward Concept*
> 
> The problem is that both homeschooling and
> 
> ...




How many times are you going to post this stupid idea spam?


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## deanrd (May 31, 2018)

longknife said:


> Before even looking at the 7, my response is – because the current public school system sucks! Grads can’t read, write, or do math. All they can do is earn participation awards. But, here are the reason cited by the author:
> 
> _It fosters family intimacy_
> 
> ...


I think Republicans should homeschool their children.  It takes a lot weirdly raised children out of competition in the future work force.

I go with the Texas Republican Party Platform:

https://www.empowertexans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/2012-GOP-Platform-Final.pdf

We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. 

-------------

You see?  If children learn to think for themselves, they  stop listening to Republican parents.  Those parents recognize that fact.

--------

We recognize parental responsibility and authority regarding sex education. We believe that parents must be given an opportunity to review the material prior to giving their consent. We oppose any sex education other than abstinence until marriage.

----

Because that's worked so well.  Ask Sarah Palin.


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## bodecea (May 31, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...


"mud puddle" eh?


----------



## bodecea (May 31, 2018)

koshergrl said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


Funny to watch the trumpanzees tote ignorance.


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## Jarlaxle (May 31, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> The Sage of Main Street said:
> 
> 
> > *Team/Reward Concept*
> ...


5,878 and counting.


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## bodecea (May 31, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> > Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> ...


I'm not.  It's everyone's right to homeschool.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 31, 2018)

bodecea said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



At best.


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## Muhammed (May 31, 2018)

Most of my children went to regular public schools, but they were also home-schooled. No parent should eschew home schooling. 

My eldest daughter was a profoundly gifted child. So, unlike her 4 siblings, I never required her to go to school. She chose to go to high school because it was required in order to compete on the sports teams. A major auto company gave her a free ride through UM and she's now a very gifted engineer. Her dream job.

Now I have a child who is effortlessly solving quadratic equations. She's not even 4 years old yet. Like my uncle, myself, and my eldest child, she is profoundly gifted.

It would be tantamount to child abuse if I forced her to attend any elementary school in existence, public or private.


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## Winston (May 31, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Look here you little self-righteous bitch, I attacked you and your "opinion" because you entered this thread calling people dumbasses.  You are talking to a father of six, one in medical school and one in a material science phd program.  That is the one I was "bragging" about, and yeah, I tend to do that, especially on his birthday.  He is one of the world's leading experts on creep and is currently working on a standardized means of measuring creep, which currently does not exist.  He has made presentations in both Europe and Asia and will be going to England next month to do the same.  You don't even know what "creep" is.  I have two others that are attending college at the moment, a Philosophy major as a path to law school and a Health Management major.  Pretty sure not a one of your kids as seen the halls of a major university unless it was while working as a janitor so you can continue to blow smoke about what a great job you did as a home-schooler, I ain't buying it.

And tell me, you think a doctor, or lawyer, or even a world class engineer scientist has to deal with all kids of people?  Of course they do.  And talk about misunderstanding, I did not applaud those people that searched out my school, I pointed that out to show how the school was somewhat unique.  Matter of fact, I know few public schools were children driving Bentleys and living in million dollar McMansions sit beside kids that took the bus from their trailer park.  Where half a dozen languages are spoken in the cafeteria.  And I know, you figure that benefits the kids from the trailer park the most.  But the reason all the local private schools closed is because those parents in the McMansions understand it is their kids that benefit the most.

And talk about assuming, I got to admit, I was laughing my ass of at the contention that I was an inactive parent. I remember one time when my boys were younger I had just looked at my bank statement and noticed that a huge commission deposit had hit the bank.  I came into the living room where the boys and my stay at home wife were and sung, "just got paid today".  The boys said, "for what".  Hell, I was so involved they didn't even know I worked.

But right back to my initial point, which you exhibit in spades.  Home schooling parents are cowards, plain and simple.  They are weak and have no confidence whatsoever in their ability to "control" their children.  While you were worrying about other children influencing your children I was teaching mine how to be the influencers.  In fact, I demanded it.  And perhaps the most unique thing about "my school" is that there were dozens of other parents, just like me, many my old classmates, that demanded the same from their kids.  Because rather you realize it not, it is the kids that control the school's environment, not the teachers and not the school board.

But hell, I am out.  I have spent three quarters of the ball game writing this post, which I just read to my youngest two.  They drove over an hour to come home, spend some time with "Pops" drinking some beer and watching the game.  Pretty unusual for college kids.  We have been watching the game, talking about personality types like IMTP's, IMFP's, and EMTP's.  I am quite sure you covered that while home schooling.  LOL.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 1, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > hadit said:
> ...



Thank you Mrs. MOTO!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 1, 2018)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > hadit said:
> ...



Nuns could also beat you within and inch of your life and no one complained.  Let me do that as a public school teacher and I would be fired in a heartbeat and arrested for child abuse.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 1, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



You really are one of the worst debaters on this forum.  I did not do a crappy job and I will happily tell you that I retired in April.  I now work for a defense contractor and I am loving every minute of it. Mainly because I do not have to put up with people like you who claim the job is so easy, despite never even attempted it.

The fact remains that for all of your claims, you cannot prove anything and I know that just grates on you right down to the bone. It really sucks when you go into a battle of wits unarmed, and that is exactly where you are.  You are simply jealous of the fact that I do know the topic and you are not even equipped to carry on a discussion because all you have is your beliefs.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 1, 2018)

bodecea said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



That just goes to show how socially isolated they must be.  I am 57 years young and never have seen the word spoken or written.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 1, 2018)

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



Yeah, we have been carrying liberals on our back for decades now.


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## toobfreak (Jun 1, 2018)

longknife said:


> Before even looking at the 7, my response is – because the current public school system sucks! Grads can’t read, write, or do math. All they can do is earn participation awards. But, here are the reason cited by the author:
> 
> _It fosters family intimacy_
> 
> ...




Studies have shown that home schooled kids are smarter than those in public schools.  But then, the entire government plan has always been to dumb the populace down for easier control.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 1, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > Before even looking at the 7, my response is – because the current public school system sucks! Grads can’t read, write, or do math. All they can do is earn participation awards. But, here are the reason cited by the author:
> ...



Studies?  You mean those funded and conducted by organizations like the HSLDA?

You home school supporters crack me up!  The arrogance and self-righteousness is disgusting.   Just homeschool your brood and leave the rest of us alone.

FYI, I had a potential Army recruit call me the other night and said he wanted to join the Army but he didn't think his parents did a good enough job home schooling him so he could pass the ASVAB test!  That is sad!


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jun 1, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Yes.  Why did that change?  Should we not change back?


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## abrere (Jun 1, 2018)

When my step daughter arrives in the US, , I'll send her to school, for the socialization thing, for half a day, alternating morning's and afternoons, so that she'll get the exposure to the other kids, etc. But she'll also get a couple of hours of homeschooling and "armoring" of her mind against the commie bs that pervades the school system.


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## abrere (Jun 1, 2018)

abrere said:


> When my step daughter arrives in the US, , I'll send her to school, for the socialization thing, for half a day, alternating morning's and afternoons, so that she'll get the exposure to the other kids, etc. But she'll also get a couple of hours of homeschooling and "armoring" of her mind against the commie bs that pervades the school system.



She will also be taught hand to hand, stick and knife fighting, shooting, gardening, working on cars, electrical wiring, plumbing, welding, hunting, fishing, animal husbandry, farming, etc. So that by the time she's 18 and goes off to college, (if she chooses to go, that is) she'll have a solid grounding in all the things that kids should know.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jun 1, 2018)

hadit said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > hadit said:
> ...



There are all kinds of choices available now, tailored to the needs of the child and of the family.  It's really amazing to see what people have come up with, given the opportunity.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jun 1, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Winston said:
> 
> 
> > Parents that home school their children believe it allows them to control their children.  But the truth of the matter is those home schooling parents are demonstrating that they have NO control over their children.  They are openly admitting they can't prevent their children from being influenced by teachers or other students.  To me, it demonstrates a lack of parenting skills.  And honestly, it severely limits their child's ability to function in a free and open society.  What, are those parents going to control which job their kids get, which church they go to, and what friends they have when they are no longer minors?
> ...



Loss of power and control.  They like to gabble on - like Winston - about how homeschoolers are scared of losing control, but all of their vitriol is based on the fact that when people have freedom of choice in their own lives, LEFTISTS lose control.  And if they can't impose their ideas and beliefs on people, no one will choose them voluntarily.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jun 1, 2018)

abrere said:


> When my step daughter arrives in the US, , I'll send her to school, for the socialization thing, for half a day, alternating morning's and afternoons, so that she'll get the exposure to the other kids, etc. But she'll also get a couple of hours of homeschooling and "armoring" of her mind against the commie bs that pervades the school system.



I can see where she might need something of a "crash course" in understanding what the popular culture is, given that she hasn't been immersed in it her whole life, but in your place, I think I'd also be grateful for the certain amount of "Are you kidding?  Americans are nuts" that goes along with coming from outside of our culture.


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## Winston (Jun 1, 2018)

abrere said:


> abrere said:
> 
> 
> > When my step daughter arrives in the US, , I'll send her to school, for the socialization thing, for half a day, alternating morning's and afternoons, so that she'll get the exposure to the other kids, etc. But she'll also get a couple of hours of homeschooling and "armoring" of her mind against the commie bs that pervades the school system.
> ...



That is the way it is done.


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## Winston (Jun 1, 2018)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Winston said:
> ...



Your insistence on framing this as a right and left issue only confirms your ignorance.  Do you really think all school districts deliver a leftist leaning curriculum?  Perhaps you should consider moving here, North Carolina's 10th Congressional district, one of the reddest of all the red districts in the country.  So red that the gerrymandering Republicans tossed all of Asheville, called the San Francisco of the east, into the district without losing any of their advantage even while moving Republican leaning portions into Asheville's former district to give them a Republican advantage in that district.  Disgusting.

That school I bragged about, Howard Stern proclaimed it the most redneck high school in the country, mostly because he heard about the students running a deer carcass up the flagpole of the rival "city" school.  They have "tractor days", where the kids drive their families tractor to school.  Dozens of them line the front lawn, along with a handful of riding lawnmowers, several times a year.  It is where the local Boy Scout troop goes coon hunting every year in order to make coonskin hats.  A liberal around here is about as rare as hen's teeth, and a liberal teacher with more than ten years experience is non-existent because they rarely last more than a year or two.

Nope, the reason most educated people are not Republican is not because they have been indoctrinated by a "liberal" education system.  It is because many of the Republican position are just completely ignorant and only an uneducated nitwit would support them.  Tax cuts that generate revenue?  Yeah, when the marginal tax rate is north of 65% or so, maybe, but any economist worth two shits will tell you it is not going to happen with today's historical low rates.  Same for the corporate tax cut, it has not, and will not, lead to economic growth.  The few token bonuses and raises handed out pale in comparison to the billions of dollars of stock buybacks.  Immigration, again, not a single economist worth two shits believe that immigration, both legal and illegal, is a drain on the economy.  Global warming--I mean come on, it is not up for debate within the scientific community.  Evolution, again, not really up for debate although the theory continues to evolve as we make new discoveries in genetics and anthropology. Israel is an apartheid country that continually violates international law, maintains nuclear weapons without signing the NPT, and those Jewish settlers in those illegal settlements are among the most racist people on Earth.


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## hadit (Jun 1, 2018)

Winston said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Ah, yes, the obligatory anti-Isreal rant.


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## boedicca (Jun 1, 2018)

bodecea said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Actually, it's a British term easily recognized by anyone who is properly well-read.


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## boedicca (Jun 1, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...




It's quite commonly used in England.

The Dursley family in the Harry Potter books actually lives in Little Whinging.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jun 1, 2018)

boedicca said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Can't remember the last British author I read who DIDN'T use it at least once.


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## Muhammed (Jun 1, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> [
> 
> FYI, I had a potential Army recruit call me the other night and said he wanted to join the Army but he didn't think his parents did a good enough job home schooling him so he could pass the ASVAB test!  That is sad!




And exactly how many people here do you presume actually believe that story?


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## Borillar (Jun 1, 2018)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > Why the hell do they have to use verbiage like that? Why not make it simple so people like me can understand it?
> ...


I certainly don't hate it. We home-schooled our youngest daughter for a few years (grades 2 through 5). She had a medical issue at the time and the school had a hard time dealing with it. We used an online school, Connections Academy, and it worked out well for her. By the time she went back to her regular school she was way ahead of her peers. She got plenty of socialization with neighborhood kids, church youth groups, dance classes, and band, so she was never socially awkward. She is now a university student studying Pre-Med. 

I think many of the public schools are actually stunting the academic growth of our children, gearing classes towards the lowest common denominator. Many of the brighter kids just sit there bored, while the teacher explains things over and over to kids who either don't understand or don't care.

It isn't a panacea, but it was quite helpful for my daughter's situation.


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## longknife (Jun 6, 2018)

*Parents Look to Home Schooling As Leftists Take Over Public Schools*

Part of it is the school shootings. But more of it comes from a kickback against Leftist agendas. Parents no longer tolerate their children being propagandized and want them to learn what matters.

_The homeschooling movement has ballooned from 1.5 million to estimates of more than 2 million now. Since most states aren’t required to count the number of homeschooling families, it’s still a guessing game. But there’s one thing everyone agrees on: more parents are making the leap — and fast._

More @ Parents Look to Home Schooling As Leftists Take Over Public Schools


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 6, 2018)

longknife said:


> *Parents Look to Home Schooling As Leftists Take Over Public Schools*
> 
> Part of it is the school shootings. But more of it comes from a kickback against Leftist agendas. Parents no longer tolerate their children being propagandized and want them to learn what matters.
> 
> ...



Expect to see another snowflake explosion in the next few years as these kids venture out into the real world for the first time.  I am not saying every one will be, just that there will be some who need to untie Momma's apron strings.


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## hadit (Jun 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *Parents Look to Home Schooling As Leftists Take Over Public Schools*
> ...



That happens now with kids who go to government schools.  It's not a substantive complaint. Good parents will make sure their kids are ready for life, no matter where they go to school. In fact, given the way colleges are acting, it can be argued that we're trying to extend childhood for today's government schooled children. They demand safe places and tend to live in their parents' houses well past the time they should be on their own. Obamadon'tcare lets them stay on their parents' health insurance well into adulthood, etc. Home schooling is not going to make that appreciably worse.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 6, 2018)

hadit said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > longknife said:
> ...



It also happens with homeschooled kids.  THAT was my point.  You people need to get out more and see the disasters of home schooling.  There are wonderful successes, but we will suffer from those disasters that we allowed to happen.

I was recently taking with an Army recruit who told me that he was homeschooled and how much it embarrassed him to say so.  He freely admitted to me, "I need an education, because I don't know anything!"  He claimed his parents did nothing to educate him other than provide him the books to read.  He had no practical knowledge and he feared not qualifying for the military academically.  He did this with no idea of my background as a public school teacher.


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## rightwinger (Jun 6, 2018)

Homeschooling is a cute concept
Some parents are good at it, others suck big time

It will never be a large enough sector of education to make a difference


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Expect to see another snowflake explosion in the next few years as these kids venture out into the real world for the first time.  I am not saying every one will be, just that there will be some who need to untie Momma's apron strings.



It is curious that double-entry accounting is not about the real world.  A year ago a business woman told me that the housing bubble of 2008 would not have happened if accounting had been mandatory since the 60s.  But an economist said it would not matter.

Accounting: collegians vs 5th graders

Fifth-Graders Learn Accounting as Well as Collegians

Educators with degrees could have been suggesting books to kids even if the books were not used in class or tested for.

It is like the Conservatives and the Liberals are about maintaining controlled ignorance, they just want different forms of ignorance.


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## Unkotare (Jun 6, 2018)




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## longknife (Jun 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > *Parents Look to Home Schooling As Leftists Take Over Public Schools*
> ...



*Just the opposite. Not being subject to the progressive propaganda in the school systems, they will have learned self-reliance and personal responsibility.*


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 6, 2018)

longknife said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > longknife said:
> ...



Unless your kid goes to school in a blue state, there is no progressive propaganda.  Numerous teachers on this forum, conservative and liberal have attested to that.


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## Moonglow (Jun 6, 2018)

rightwinger said:


> Homeschooling is a cute concept
> Some parents are good at it, others suck big time
> 
> It will never be a large enough sector of education to make a difference


Missouri is starting up virtual public schools again, to try and curb the teacher-pupil sexual affairs...They be jealous.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 6, 2018)

Moonglow said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Homeschooling is a cute concept
> ...



Florida has had a virtual school set up since my son was in high school and he is now 30.  They suck at instruction!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 6, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Expect to see another snowflake explosion in the next few years as these kids venture out into the real world for the first time.  I am not saying every one will be, just that there will be some who need to untie Momma's apron strings.
> ...



Why the obsession with ancient accounting? Is there anything else you care about, like buggy whips, typewriters, cathode ray TVs?


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## Moonglow (Jun 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


They dropped it after the recession of aught eight and are just now getting around to it. My youngest kid(16) is too advanced to do it.. He will be doing college and high school next year.


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## Moonglow (Jun 6, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...


I like the old adding machines that could imprint a check...Free money...


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## hadit (Jun 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> hadit said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Anecdotal evidence does not the pattern prove. There are multiple scenarios at play here. 

1 Good parents, bad schools. Kids have a chance to succeed. 
2 Bad parents, good schools. Going to be tough for the kids. 
3 Bad parents, bad schools. Good luck, kids, you'll need it.
4 Good parents, good schools. High chance of success. 
5 Good parents, home school. Very high chance of success. 

In no way does your anecdote prove that home schooling is a bad thing. It is not lowering the already low rate of government school success, for example.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Why the obsession with ancient accounting? Is there anything else you care about, like buggy whips, typewriters, cathode ray TVs?



Ancient Accounting?

Aren't today's computers using software that implements the concepts of double-entry accounting?  The code just does what people have done manually for centuries.  

I have seen Depreciation discussed in an accounting book from the 19th century.  But consumers did not buy cars and air conditioners back then.

So if all high school students knew accounting they could easily be made aware of their losses on all of the consumer junk.  Depreciation on computes:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2004/200431/200431pap.pdf

But we are not told about passive backplane designs.


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## Unkotare (Jun 7, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Why the obsession with ancient accounting? Is there anything else you care about, like buggy whips, typewriters, cathode ray TVs?
> ...


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 7, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Why the obsession with ancient accounting? Is there anything else you care about, like buggy whips, typewriters, cathode ray TVs?



This is from Nov 2017:

What Is Double-Entry Accounting? Here Are 6 Apps to Help You Balance the Books | GetApp®

The fundamentals do not change with age.

What we call Newtonian Physics is really billions of years old.  Newton just figured it out several centuries ago.

Understanding the accounting is still needful even though the computers do the busywork.

So much of the talk on this site is about education to get a job but then not much about how to manage the money afterwards.  If accounting had been mandatory since the 60s maybe so many people would not need jobs and would have homes paid for.  What would that do to the economy?

That is the trouble with so many educators with degrees.  Could not figure out what information is important.  So we wasted time and money on the unimportant.


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## Unkotare (Jun 7, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Why the obsession with ancient accounting? Is there anything else you care about, like buggy whips, typewriters, cathode ray TVs?
> ...


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 8, 2018)

hadit said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > hadit said:
> ...



My anecdotes are made up of years of trying to salvage the human educational refuse thet homeschooling parents pawned off on the public schools and put their children years behind their peers.  You can call it anecdotes, but I call it definitive evidence that not all homeschooling is successful.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 8, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Why the obsession with ancient accounting? Is there anything else you care about, like buggy whips, typewriters, cathode ray TVs?
> ...



I don't know much about bookkeeping and it hasn't hurt me, and I keep the books for my church,  I have been through about 1o years of audits with no difficulties, so I wonder why you place so much importance on common sense application of mathematics.


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 8, 2018)

Homeschooling only succeeds if the parents are smart enough and have the time to teach their kids.................It can work and it can be a disaster..............depends on the people..............

Brother n law tried to teach his kids.............home school..........one kid was jam up and great grades...other was a wreck..........we had the kids at my home for a time to get them in a better school district.............and his daughter was completely lost...............took tons of time to teach her and she was set back a year in the public school.............Other just finished College with Straight A's in Electrical Engineering...............


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 8, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I don't know much about bookkeeping and it hasn't hurt me, and I keep the books for my church,  I have been through about 1o years of audits with no difficulties, so I wonder why you place so much importance on common sense application of mathematics.



How many high school graduates know what Net Worth is?  I have never seen a survey of that?

Maybe this is informative:

What My Mom's Suicide Taught Me about Money

Credit Card Industry Preys On Students, Critics Charge

Severe debt can cause depression and even suicide

So I am wondering what the economy would be like today if it had been mandatory since the 60s.  We cannot go back and change history, we can only decide what to do from this point on.

All of these education topics, but not specifying what relevant education is seems very strange to me.  The Socialist high school teacher that objected to mandatory on the grounds that the math would manke Capitalism seem logical apparently has  a perspective rather different from yours.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 8, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know much about bookkeeping and it hasn't hurt me, and I keep the books for my church,  I have been through about 1o years of audits with no difficulties, so I wonder why you place so much importance on common sense application of mathematics.
> ...




Why would a high school student care what net worth is?

I think you are a bit arrogant in your assumptions of what is necessary to function in life.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Why would a high school student care what net worth is?
> 
> I think you are a bit arrogant in your assumptions of what is necessary to function in life.



I said high school graduate not high school student.  Is this a reading comprehension problem?

Why would a high school student care what a hypotenuse is?  Is that more important for most people than Net Worth for the rest of their lives.  Isn't high school preparation for the FUTURE?

Professional educators do seem to make a big deal of the unimportant but complex and ignore the important but simple. 

Consumer debt set to reach record $4 trillion by the end of the year

Economic Wargames: How the economic model is unsustainable and enslaving.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 9, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Why would a high school student care what net worth is?
> ...



Yes, as a matter of fact it is much more important to know the hypotenuse than the definition of net worth.    I am 57 years old, retired from two different teaching position and served in the military.  I have yet to have a need for my net worth.

You are confused and no one cares about net worth, because it  could be explained in about 2 minutes for those who need it, and a knowledge of accounting procedures is imply not required.

Accountants are well-known for over emphasizing their skill with numbers.  I often had students with parents who were accountants doing poorly in math.  I found out it was because anything beyond adding and subtracting was a foreign concept to their parents.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You are confused and no one cares about net worth, because it  could be explained in about 2 minutes for those who need it, and a knowledge of accounting procedures is imply not required.



So your concept of knowledge is memorizing a definition?  That is about typical for the teachers I have had.

50% of Americans have a Net Worth of less than $100,000.  30% have less than $30,000.

United States Net Worth Brackets, Percentiles, and Top One Percent - DQYDJ

My point is that if UNDERSTANDING accounting had been promoted since the early 60s would this be the case now?  Like reading Romeo & Juliet and the Mayor of Casterbridge was SO IMPORTANT!

We need to pay the salaries of so many teachers pushing useless junk so they can retire and regard their lives as a success.

With accounting being 700 years old, older than printing actually, how can there not be plenty of public domain books on the subject.

*Accounting Fundamentals* (1947)
by Macfarland,George A.; Ayars,Robert D.
Accounting Fundamentals : Macfarland,George A. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

*Principles Of Accounting* (1953)
by Finney,H.A.; Miller,Herbert E.
Principles Of Accounting : Finney,H.A. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

*Accounting Principles* (1976)
by Thacker, Ronald James
Accounting principles : Thacker, Ronald James : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Who needs teachers?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 9, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > You are confused and no one cares about net worth, because it  could be explained in about 2 minutes for those who need it, and a knowledge of accounting procedures is imply not required.
> ...




Exactly!

So 80% of Americans don't give a shit about net worth, so what the fuck does accounting do to solve that problem.  Not a damn thing!

That would be useless junk to 80% of Americans and I can say without a doubt that teaching accounting for that purpose would be a waste of fucking time!

Do you get it now?

Are you feeling me yet?

Catch a damn clue, nimrod bean counter!


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Exactly!
> 
> So 80% of Americans don't give a shit about net worth, so what the fuck does accounting do to solve that problem.  Not a damn thing!
> 
> ...



I wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole.

You want the losers to stay losers and say it is their fault and then call yourself an educator.

Not surprising our schools are so crappy!


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 9, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly!
> ...



You want the students studying buggy whips, typewriters and dial telephones!

When you get a degree in education so you will know why curriculum is built the way it is built, then maybe you will change your mind.  Until then, you are just a cranky bastard who has no clue about education.  Learning "double-entry" accounting has never hurt me nor my wife or three children who are all quite successful.  I have no idea why you locked on to this bizarre belief, but I'll bet I am not the only one on this forum that considers it just a little hint of mental illness.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You want the students studying buggy whips, typewriters and dial telephones!



Your argument is BS.  People using software that does the double-entry accounting still need to comprehend what is being done.

You are simply content to use the so called educational system to sabotage plenty of kids to maintain this class structure nonsense.

I worked for IBM.  Plenty of System Engineers and Customer Engineers did not understand electricity.  They were just silly job titles.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 9, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > You want the students studying buggy whips, typewriters and dial telephones!
> ...



Logic  is just not your strong suit.  Absolutely none of your rambling responses have anything to do with reality.  I suggest seeking professional help.

Class structure has NOTHING to do with this!  Can't you see that?  You want to waste class time on an antiquated system that no longer has any applicability to daily life for the vast majority of people. 

I have NEVER taken an accounting class and I guarantee I can run circles around you and just about everyone else in application of mathematics.  You can't say that!


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 9, 2018)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Logic  is just not your strong suit.  Absolutely none of your rambling responses have anything to do with reality.  I suggest seeking professional help.
> 
> Class structure has NOTHING to do with this!  Can't you see that?  You want to waste class time on an antiquated system that no longer has any applicability to daily life for the vast majority of people.
> 
> I have NEVER taken an accounting class and I guarantee I can run circles around you and just about everyone else in application of mathematics.  You can't say that!



Yeah Right!  Like this is about ego playing games with YOU.

All anyone needs to do is Google:

accounting degree salary

or

accounting courses

to see how many millions of hits they get and what they have to do with buggy whips.  Responding to your silliness is not worth any more time.

Home Schoolers should simply use the Public Domain accounting books.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jun 10, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Logic  is just not your strong suit.  Absolutely none of your rambling responses have anything to do with reality.  I suggest seeking professional help.
> ...



You seriously need help.  You were talking about about ONE specific course that you claimed could have had a massive impact on America in general.  You can't even follow the discussion.  Try reading the thread and see where you made a huge turn.

I am done with your idiocy.


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