# Solar Power Is Now The World's Cheapest Energy



## ScienceRocks (Dec 17, 2016)

*Solar Power Is Now The World's Cheapest Energy*

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> Over the past six years, the cost of solar energy has dropped dramatically, to the point where it is now even cheaper than wind power in emerging markets like China and India. This may be largely due to rising investments in solar over the last few years. Now, there is electricity being produced in Chile for $29.10 per megawatt hour–half the price of power produced by coal.
> "Renewables are robustly entering the era of undercutting" energy made by fossil fuels, Bloomberg New Energy Finance chairman Michael Liebreich wrote this week.
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> This is great news for developing nations, which do not generally have the kind of infrastructure that developed countries have dedicated to fossil fuels already in place. As they build their energy infrastructure, it will make sense to go with cheaper, renewable options, more so than it does for a country like the United States to abandon our formidable fossil-fuel based infrastructure.




hahaha, lol'd


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## the_human_being (Dec 17, 2016)

Matthew said:


> *Solar Power Is Now The World's Cheapest Energy*
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Too bad it won't move a freight train down the tracks, an eighteen wheeler down the interstate, or lift Air Force One off the tarmac.


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## flacaltenn (Dec 17, 2016)

the_human_being said:


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Or power most of Tennessee for the past 5 days.. 

 There's always some bookkeeping and accounting shananigans with propaganda like this. Don't take into account the cost of the land because it belongs to the Govt in most of those countries. It doesn't count "investments", which is govt money to subsidize it. Doesn't count the cost of idling the REAL power generators when the sun actually shines.

But OK -- costs are coming down. Because the MARKET won't bear the actual pricing. That's good. If it SOLVES anything..


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## irosie91 (Dec 17, 2016)

Matthew said:


> *Solar Power Is Now The World's Cheapest Energy*
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good------the sun may need a lawyer-----thanks Matt----your best post thus far----stick to popular science------your attempts at political comment have been----uhm---
------less than stellar    (sheeeeesh  STELLAR------STAR POWER)


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## polarbear (Dec 17, 2016)

Matthew said:


> *Solar Power Is Now The World's Cheapest Energy*
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Hahaha is right...Let`s see that bozo article has Chile produce 1 *Mega* watt hour for just $ 29.10
And you quoted it without noticing something fishy...like the fact that 1 mega watt hour are *1000 Kilo *watt hours. Electricity prices are quoted by Kwhrs not Mwhrs and according to your article that goes for $ 0.029 per Kwhr in Chile and = 1/2 of the cost or $0.0582 when produced by coal.
Lets see now :
LMGTFY

Wow that`s unbelieeeeeevable
I thought they are already starting to flag fake news..

That`s even way less than what we pay in Canada where we have a huge surplus of cheap hydro electric power
Average electricity prices around the world: $/kWh | OVO Energy





Btw notice where Germany is after that cow Andrea Merkel switched to solar and wind ?
That`s where you guys were heading if Trump would have lost !!!


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## irosie91 (Dec 17, 2016)

you lost me--------all I know is    I - V/R         and I am not at all sure why-----but it got me thru physics 101.        I have never CREATED a circuit-------electricity frightens me


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## polarbear (Dec 17, 2016)

I know what you mean been there & done it with HVAC in power plants. It can get scary alright
I wonder why the FBI & other agencies worry about Russian power grid hacking...I would be more concerned about some ISIS inspired asshole to lob a bundle of fence wire into a HVAC transformer station
That can cause a lot more damage than a home brew explosives pipe bomb


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

the_human_being said:


> Matthew said:
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Too bad that you are unable to see where this is going.

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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Daimler Trucks is presenting the Mercedes-Benz Urban eTruck in Stuttgart, as the first fully electric truck with an admissible total weight of up to 26 tonnes.
Mercedes-Benz: First fully electric truck

Of course, this will go head to head with the EV truck that Tesla will build.


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## Correll (Dec 17, 2016)

Matthew said:


> *Solar Power Is Now The World's Cheapest Energy*
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So, no more need for market interventions then. It will naturally dominate from here on.

Cool.


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## the_human_being (Dec 17, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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So where do they get a recharge of electricity from?  I don't see any huge solar cells anywhere that is recharging them every couple of hours.


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## the_human_being (Dec 17, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


> Daimler Trucks is presenting the Mercedes-Benz Urban eTruck in Stuttgart, as the first fully electric truck with an admissible total weight of up to 26 tonnes.
> Mercedes-Benz: First fully electric truck
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> Of course, this will go head to head with the EV truck that Tesla will build.



Powered by electricity derived from fossil fuel fired power plants.


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## the_human_being (Dec 17, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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Actually, it's not going very far without a recharge from the electrical grid powered by a fossil fuel power plant.


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## Manonthestreet (Dec 17, 2016)

Exactly build something that is better and people will buy it.
Mandates short circuit innovation.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Correll said:


> Matthew said:
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And we can also drop the market interventions for fossil fuels and nuclear, right? Let the utilities handle the cost of insurance for the nukes, correct?


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

You think that we are incapable of getting our total power needs from just renewables and existing nuclear. Well, you are wrong.,


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## Correll (Dec 17, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


> You think that we are incapable of getting our total power needs from just renewables and existing nuclear. Well, you are wrong.,




Sure we can. All we have to do is vastly reduce our standard of living.


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## Manonthestreet (Dec 17, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


> You think that we are incapable of getting our total power needs from just renewables and existing nuclear. Well, you are wrong.,


Yeah let's cover half the country in windmills and solar panels.... Brilliant


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## polarbear (Dec 17, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


> Daimler Trucks is presenting the Mercedes-Benz Urban eTruck in Stuttgart, as the first fully electric truck with an admissible total weight of up to 26 tonnes.
> Mercedes-Benz: First fully electric truck
> 
> Of course, this will go head to head with the EV truck that Tesla will build.


That won`t work here...especially if "here" is in Canada or Alaska.
I would like to see that pull what we have to haul up here...140 000 lbs Super B trains up and down steep& icy "roads" which are roads only in the academic sense...
unless all these communities (mostly native American) are supposed to starve and freeze  in the dark.
On Daimler's  web page they say it`s only intended for city delivery and has a maximum range of only 200 km. Any so called "day-cab" truck in a typical US metro logs way more than that per day. On the CDFA statistics page they say that over a third of the country’s vegetables and *two-thirds of the country’s fruits *and nuts are grown in California.
So how would you supply the US north east region with fresh fruit if all you got is electric toy trucks


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

And how many urban trucks are there to cross country haulers? We have trucks delivering slabs to us that probably never do more than 40 miles a day. Already, we have a Frito Lay Smith electric delivering to stores in Portland.

Cross country is just about two doublings in power away. I would expect that to happen before 2027.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Manonthestreet said:


> Old Rocks said:
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For windmills, there are some very big empty spaces in Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Eastern Oregon that have prime wind areas. Enough potential to provide most of our energy needs.

As for solar, I think that the big desert farms are not the most effective way to go. Switch to a distributed grid, and cover our city warehouses, malls, manufacturing facilities with solar. Very little transmission losses doing that. And the businesses, if they do it themselves, could get an income if they produced more than they used. Combine that with grid scale storage, at both the generation points, and the use points, and you have a very stable grid, with ample backup for storms.


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## Zander (Dec 17, 2016)

I love solar. I have it on my house. 

It's just one part of a comprehensive energy policy. 

Oil, Solar, Wind, Nuclear, Geothermal, Natural Gas, Coal, hydro-electric, etc....All have their place.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Correll said:


> Old Rocks said:
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Bullshit. The only people that will reduce our standard of living is the orange clown and his cabinet of incompetents. Electricity is electricity. You will not be able to tell that it is no longer coming from the burning of fossil fuels. Except for cleaner air, and the fact that whole river systems are not getting poisoned from fly ash and chemical spills related to the burning of coal.


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## Manonthestreet (Dec 17, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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Windfarms only have 20 yr lifespan from what I've seen....And I doubt those states are going you to destroy their states with standing junk


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## Zander (Dec 17, 2016)

Manonthestreet said:


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Not to mention the thousands of dead birds.....Windfarms kill 10-20 times more than previously thought | Save the Eagles International


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

polarbear said:


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12 cents per kilowatt-hour

The average price people in the U.S. pay for electricity is *about 12 cents per kilowatt-hour*. (Context: A typical U.S. household uses about 908 kWh a month of electricity.) But there's huge variation from state to state. Here's a map of residential electricity prices, according to the Energy Information Administration.Oct 28, 2011
*The Price Of Electricity In Your State : Planet Money : NPR*
www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/10/27/.../the-*price*-of-electricity-in-your-state
*
OK, so there are a thousand Kw/hr in a Mw/hr. So $0.12 per Kw/hr is $122 per Mw/hr. So $29.10, wholesale, per Mw/hr is very cheap. Dirty coal, no pollution controls, costs over $60 per Mw/hr, and will only increase in price, and that does not include the externalities that we the taxpayer take care of.*


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Manonthestreet said:


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Now what the hell are you talking about? You think that when a turbine approaches it's mechanical life span that they will just walk off from it? Not at all, they will bring in the same type of crane that they put up the turbine with in the first place, replace the turbine with a more modern and efficient one. Then they will recycle the materials in the old turbine.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 17, 2016)

Zander said:


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OK, we need to find and engineering solution to warn the eagles away from the mills blades. Same for bats. In the meantime, are you as concerned about the road kill of eagles and other raptors? How about the kill from powerlines, which is far larger than the kill from the mills? Are you suggesting that we take down all the cross country power lines? What do you suggest concerning that? And your site told a basic lie. The eagle kill allowance was for the mills and the cross country power lines. Now why do you suppose that they did not mention that?

And the reason that the eagles in the lower 48 were in danger and at low numbers in the first place, was DDT. Which the 'Conservatives' are all for.


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## Correll (Dec 18, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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So, why hasn't some one without evul republicans in charge done it?

Lots of good little lefty countries in the world, so, examples?


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## Zander (Dec 18, 2016)

Old Rocks said:


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Write them a  letter and ask.

Wind power the way it is configured today, is essentially a bird guillotine. Travel on the 10 fwy through the Coachella Valley and you can see the dead bird carcasses all over the place. Same thing on the 580 through the Altamont pass. I love the "idea" of wind power, but until they find a way to minimize bird deaths, I am not a huge *fan *(pun inteneded!). I do like this idea- The Future of Wind Turbines? No Blades

As for power lines- we need to bury them underground.


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## Old Rocks (Dec 19, 2016)

Correll said:


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That ultra-liberal state of Texas has a serious problem with wind.

Texas Is Drowning in Wind Energy

Texas has made a massive investment in wind power, and the turbines are starting to move. 18,000 megawatts (MW) of wind generation capacity are already up and running, and 5,500 more are coming soon. But there's a problem: It's hard to build the infrastructure to get all that energy to people. There's a serious possibility that turbines will have to be turned off at times to keep from overloading the system.


It wasn't supposed to be this way. Back in 2014, Texas unveiled the Competitive Renewable Energy Zone (CREZ), a $6.8 billion transmission line project that spanned 3,600 miles of the Lone Star State meant as a hub for multiple major metro areas including Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. "It's a major milestone," Terry Hadley, a spokesman for the Public Utility Commission, told _The Texas Tribune _as it neared completion. Going one step further, Jeff Clark, executive director at the Wind Coalition, a regional partner of the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA), predicted that "CREZ will turn out to be the most visionary thing this state has ever done electricity-wise."

That was then. Now Texas is expecting 21,000 MW of electricity, and CREZ is only built to handle 18,500. To put that in context, a typical coal plant handles 600 MW. That might mean that turbines will have to rest idle at times. This isn't the first time or place for this to happen. The UK has also struggled with the challenge of surplus power, and energy surpluses in Chile—which have resulted in straight-up _free power_—are starting to have negative effects on the energy industry. It's not the worst problem to have, but it's still a problem.

There are two places Texas can go from here. It can build even more infrastructure, which it's planning on doing with the Panhandle Renewable Energy Zone, or PREZ. But after the large investment in CREZ, the state is taking a cautious view of further transmission projects. It can also export its energy, and considering how Xcel announced a $400 million project to build wires that can reach New Mexico, it's a safe bet to say that Texas wind will soon be powering homes in the Land of Enchantment


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## Old Rocks (Dec 19, 2016)

Dang, those ultra-liberal Texans just keep doing it;

Solar power starts ascent in Texas | Business | Dallas News

He compared it to wind power a decade ago, when turbines were popping up in West Texas. In 2005, wind generated 1.4 percent of electricity on ERCOT, the grid that handles most of the state’s electric load. For the first 11 months of 2015, wind’s share was over 11 percent. And in November, it was over 18 percent.

Texas is easily the No. 1 state in wind, with more than twice the capacity of California.

On solar, however, Texas has been lagging. It ranked No. 10 among the states in solar power as of September. Texas doesn’t match the incentives of some states and has an abundant supply of other cheap energy, including natural gas.

But prices for solar panels have fallen over 80 percent since 2009, making it competitive with fossil fuels. That’s ramped up the outlook in Texas, because there’s plenty of sun, a growing population, a huge electric load and a hyper-competitive electricity market.

Last year, solar installations on ERCOT grew almost 50 percent. This year, solar generation could jump sixfold, according to ERCOT projections, which are based on developer agreements to connect with the grid.

By 2030, solar will add 14,100 megawatts of power if proposed rules to cut emissions and haze remain in place, ERCOT estimates. That could power over 2 million homes in the summer. And if solar builds out as projected, it would account for more new capacity than wind and natural gas plants combined, ERCOT said.

These projections came before last month’s federal budget deal, which extended the tax credits for renewable energy — and will help keep the momentum going.


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