# We need to stop pretending that this issue is so difficult. It is obvious even to a young child.



## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

It seems like every thread devolves into crap as israel's shills only wish for their narrative to be repeated ad nauseum. As this happens, how simple this topic is gets lost, hence these circular threads that become nothing more than israeli mouthpieces lying and then insulting anyone who dares to disagree, as those who support truth and peace are smeared as racists and terrorists,  because hasbara's first rule is to accuse their enemy of exactly what the israeli jews are guilty of.






The above illustrates clearly how easy it is to understand what is happening in Palestine. It is the bottom line of the israeli narrative. 

It is long past the time to get past this. It is time to see how ridiculous this whole line of "reasoning" truly is. No one in their right mind should be able to argue this idiotic aspect of the israeli narrative.

Let the world know that we know and there can be peace.

For any od israel's shills out there who can't understand the simple cartoon above and that still don't get it, look at like this: *G-d said I can have your house. Are you good with that?*


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## MJB12741 (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It seems like every thread devolves into crap as israel's shills only wish for their narrative to be repeated ad nauseum. As this happens, how simple this topic is gets lost, hence these circular threads that become nothing more than israeli mouthpieces lying and then insulting anyone who dares to disagree, as those who support truth and peace are smeared as racists and terrorists,  because hasbara's first rule is to accuse their enemy of exactly what the israeli jews are guilty of.
> 
> View attachment 139994
> 
> ...



After Apu blows himself up, can I have his room?


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2017)

The solution has been in front of our face for decades, all based on international law.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


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## fncceo (Jul 22, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> The solution has been in front of our face for decades, all based on international law.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration



When will you be leaving America?  I'll come to the airport and wave good-bye.


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## jwoodie (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Let the world know that we know and there can be peace.


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> The solution has been in front of our face for decades, all based on international law.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration



It would seem that the Islamic terrorist enclaves of Gaza'istan and Fatah'istan can be dismantled.


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## aris2chat (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It seems like every thread devolves into crap as israel's shills only wish for their narrative to be repeated ad nauseum. As this happens, how simple this topic is gets lost, hence these circular threads that become nothing more than israeli mouthpieces lying and then insulting anyone who dares to disagree, as those who support truth and peace are smeared as racists and terrorists,  because hasbara's first rule is to accuse their enemy of exactly what the israeli jews are guilty of.
> 
> View attachment 139994
> 
> ...




إن الذليل من دل في سلطانه إن السماء تُرْجَى حين تحتجب إن الشفيق بسوء ظن مولع إن الغريق بكل حبل يعلق 
(A sinking man will try to catch any rope.)


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## montelatici (Jul 22, 2017)

fncceo said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The solution has been in front of our face for decades, all based on international law.
> ...



He isn't the one with a dual allegiance, Israel Firsters like you should leave. Need a ride to the airport?


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## fncceo (Jul 22, 2017)

montelatici said:


> He isn't the one with a dual allegiance, Israel Firsters like you should leave. Need a ride to the airport?



I have to stay ... someone has to run the place.


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2017)

fncceo said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > He isn't the one with a dual allegiance, Israel Firsters like you should leave. Need a ride to the airport?
> ...


into the ground.


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

How do you people not get this?


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> View attachment 140006
> 
> How do you people not get this?



Why do you muhammedans feel you have an entitlement to acts of Islamic terrorism without consequence?


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## MJB12741 (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> View attachment 140006
> 
> How do you people not get this?



Well you see, it's just that those Zionists don't have your fine brain Louie.  They take you very serious.  And they fear you.  And they wish you would go away & stop exposing them.  And they feel defeated by you when you post.  Oh Lord, ya gotta love Louie.  Heh Heh!


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

MJB12741 said:


> louie888 said:
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> > View attachment 140006
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Do you even understand the concept behind this simple cartoon that young children can understand?


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## MJB12741 (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > louie888 said:
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Nah!  But i sure understand this one.  Do You?  Tell us Louie, what is the meaning of this.  'Atta boy!


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## MJB12741 (Jul 22, 2017)

MJB12741 said:


> louie888 said:
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Oh Louie.  Where are ya?


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > louie888 said:
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I can see the symbolism. The muhammedan feels an entitlement to what is not his because long ago, a desert Arab warlord suffering from a mental disorder believed that an angel spoke to him and allowed him to claim an entitlement to partner with the gods, right?


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## Shusha (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> View attachment 140006
> 
> How do you people not get this?



This sets up an unavoidable problem for the anti-Israel team. 

Either indigenous and prior peoples have rights or they do not.  If they DO, then the Jewish people also have those rights.  If they do NOT, then the Palestinians have no rights as a prior people.

You can't have it both ways.  Either the people who were there prior to an invasion have the right to restoration or they do not.  This cartoon seems to argue that they do not.  If child #2 is bumped for child #3, child #3 now holds the rights, yes?  That is the implication of the cartoon.  Is that what you want to go with?


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

Shusha said:


> This sets up an unavoidable problem for the anti-Israel team.


Nope, this is way simpler than you try to make it. Thanks for proving the OP.


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## MJB12741 (Jul 22, 2017)

Oh no.  What if Louie stops playing with us?


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

How do you people not get this?


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## Shusha (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > This sets up an unavoidable problem for the anti-Israel team.
> ...



The point of the cartoon is to demonstrate that the prior claimant is being unreasonable in asserting rights over territory usurped by a possessor.  Its real simple.  

The current possessor of the territory is Israel and the Jewish people.  Arabs been bumped.


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The point of the cartoon is to demonstrate that the prior claimant is being unreasonable in asserting rights over territory usurped by a possessor. Its real simple.
> 
> The current possessor of the territory is Israel and the Jewish people. Arabs been bumped.


The point of the cartoon is to demonstrate that the just because you *claim* to have been there 1000s of years prior, this does not give you the right to steal homes and murder the people who refuse to leave you their homes. Its real simple.


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > This sets up an unavoidable problem for the anti-Israel team.
> ...



I understand you need "simple" to understand symbolism, but your cartoon of the little muhammedan presuming an entitlement should be clear to you, the simpleton.


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> fncceo said:
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> > montelatici said:
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That's an Arab Muslim speciality.


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
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> 
> > The point of the cartoon is to demonstrate that the prior claimant is being unreasonable in asserting rights over territory usurped by a possessor. Its real simple.
> ...


The point of the false premise of the cartoon and then your own lies?


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> View attachment 140006
> 
> How do you people not get this?


Hey Achmed, do you get this?


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)




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## Shusha (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> The point of the cartoon is to demonstrate that the just because you *claim* to have been there 1000s of years prior, this does not give you the right to steal homes and murder the people who refuse to leave you their homes. Its real simple.



So the problem is in the *claim*?  You are arguing FOR the rights of indigenous or prior peoples.  You AGREE they should have rights.  If you were ACTUALLY there as an indigenous peoples or a prior peoples you have rights.  And then, at least theoretically, if the Jewish people could prove their existence in the place, then you would agree they have rights to it?

Am I understanding your argument correctly?


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

I wonder how this legislation, if passed, will affect these kids at these great American colleges and universities...

May 10, 2017 – *Associated Students, Inc. Senate at Cal State University – Long Beach (CSULB) passes resolution to divest from Israel* – Long Beach, California

April 25, 2017 – *University of California at Riverside Student Senate calls for divestment*– Riverside, California

April 19, 2017 – *Pitzer College passes new bylaws prohibiting use of student funds for companies or products associated with Israeli occupation* – Claremont, California

April 9, 2017 – *Tufts Community Union Senate passes divestment* – Medford, Massachusetts

March 21, 2017 – *Sacramento City College becomes first city college to pass divestment resolution* – Sacramento, California

March 15, 2017 – *De Anza becomes first Community College Student Senate to pass divestment* – Cupertino, California

March 3, 2017 – *University of South Florida students pass referendum to divest from Israeli apartheid, fossil fuels, private prisons, human rights violations* – Tampa, Florida

February 2, 2017 – *University of California at Riverside Associated Students vote unanimously to remove Israeli military-associated company Sabra hummus from campus* – Riverside, California

November 13, 2016 – *Manchester University — home of first Peace Studies in world — Student Senate votes unanimously in support of BDS, divestment* – North Manchester, Indiana

October 26, 2016 – *Associated Students of Portland State University Pass Divestment Resolution In Support of Palestinian Human Rights* – Portland, Oregon

May 31, 2016 – *Evergreen State College students vote to condemn the presence of Caterpillar equipment on campus* – Olympia, Washington

May 31, 2016 – *Overwhelming 73.9% Vote by Evergreen State College Students to Deshelve Sabra Hummus on Campus* – Olympia, Washington

May 19, 2016 – *University of Wisconsin at Madison Graduate Student Union Endorses BDS*– Madison, Wisconsin

May 17, 2016 – *Religious Studies Scholars Endorse BDS*

April 26, 2016 – *University of California at Merced Student Government Passes Divestment Resolution* – Merced, California

April 12, 2016 – *University of Minnesota student government passes divestment* – Minneapolis, Minnesota

April 12, 2016 – *University of Chicago College Council Votes to Divest from Israeli Apartheid*– Chicago, Illinois

April 4, 2016 – *Rutgers University-Newark Student Governing Association Passes Divestment Resolution* – Newark, NJ

April 2, 2016 – *University of Indianapolis Student Senate passes resolution to divest from companies profiting from occupation, deshelve Sabra hummus* – Indianapolis, IN

March 6, 2016 – *Vassar Student Association Passes Resolution Endorsing the BDS Movement *– Arlington, NY

February 22, 2016 – *Thirty Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis Faculty and Staff Group Endorses Boycott of Israel* – Indianapolis, IN

February 16, 2016 – *University of Illinois at Chicago Undergraduate Student Government Assembly Passes Divestment Resolution Unanimously* – Chicago, Illinois

January 19, 2016 – *University of South Florida Student Government Senate Passes Joint Resolution for Divestment* – Tampa, Florida

November 18, 2015 – *San Jose State University Students Pass Resolution to Divest from Corporations that profit from the Israeli Occupation* – San Jose, California

June 22, 2015 – *Columbia University divests from private prisons including G4S, following coalition-led campaign* – Manhattan, New York

April 30, 2015 – *Oglethorpe University student goverment passes resolution to divest from Israeli occupation* – Atlanta, Georgia

April 29, 2015 – *Princeton graduate students pass divestment referendum *– Princeton, New Jersey

April 22, 2015 – *Earlham Student Senate passes resolution in support of divestment from Israeli occupation* – Richmond, Indiana

April 16, 2015 – *Wesleyan University president agrees to divest university from prisons as first step when Wesleyan students call for divestment from fossil fuels, prisons, and Israeli occupation* – Middletown, Connecticut

March 25, 2015 – *Student Government of Loyola Chicago passes resolution to divest* – Chicago, Illinois

March 2, 2015 – *Toledo student government calls for University divestment by margin of 21:4* – Toledo, Ohio

February 19, 2015 – *Northwestern University Student Government calls for university divestment* – Evanston, Illinois

February 17, 2015 – *Stanford divestment passes in a landslide victory* – Stanford, California

February 8, 2015 – *University of California Student Association — representing hundreds of thousands of UC students statewide — endorses call for UC divestment in support of Palestinian rights* – State of California

May 29, 2015 – *University of California at Davis Associated Students pass divestment bill* – Davis, California

December 5, 2014 – *Wesleyan University Dining Facilities Remove Sabra Following Successful Boycott Campaign* – Middletown, Connecticut

November, 2014 – *University of California at Los Angeles undergraduate student government passes divestment resolution* – Los Angeles, California

August 9-10, 2014 – *United Students Against Sweatshops Endorses BDS*

May 28, 2014 – *University of California at Santa Cruz student government passes divestment resolution* – Santa Cruz, California

May 23, 2014 – *DePaul student body votes for divestment despite Israeli government interference* – Chicago, Illinois

May, 2014 – *Wesleyan Students Association divests its student endowment from Israeli occupation, calls for full university divestment* – Middletown, Connecticut

April, 2014 – *More than 10,000 Univ. of South Florida students call for divestment — largest petition in state’s history* – Tampa, Florida

April, 2014 – *University of New Mexico Graduate & Professional Student Association vote for divestment from companies involved in human rights violations in Palestine and on U.S.-Mexico border* – Albuquerque, New Mexico

May 5, 2013 – *Oberlin College Student Senate passes divestment Resolution* – Oberlin, OH

April, 2013 – *University of California at Berkeley Student Senate passes divestment* – Berkeley, California

March 7,  2013  –  *University of California at Riverside Associated Students Council pass resolution calling for divestment* – Riverside, California

March, 2013 – *University of California at San Diego Associated Students Council pass resolution calling for divestment* – San Diego, California

November 14, 2012 – *Brown University Advisory Committee on Corporate Responsibility in Investment Policies calls on Brown Corporation to divest from the Israeli occupation* – Providence, Rhode Island

November, 2012 – *University of California at Irvine Associated Students unanimously pass resolution urging divestment from companies that profit from Israel’s occupation of Palestine* – Irvine, California

September 2012 – *Swarthmore College Deshelves Sabra Following Student Petition* – Philadelphia, PA

September 5, 2012 – *Earlham College Dining Services Stops Selling Sabra in Response to Student and Faculty Concerns* – Richmond, Indiana

June 5, 2012 – *Arizona State University Student Government Votes to Divest from Israel* – Tempe, Arizona

June 4, 2012 – *The Evergreen State College Flaming Eggplant Cafe Announces Boycott of Israeli Products* – Olympia, Washington

April 18, 2012 – *UMass-Boston Student Government passes resolution to divest from Boeing* – Boston, Massachusetts

March 30 , 2012 – *National Movimiento Estudiantil Chican@ de Aztlán (MEChA) Endorses Palestinian Boycott of Israel*

May/November, 2011 – *Majority of DePaul students vote to boycott Sabra Hummus; force ethical alternatives offered* – Chicago, Illinois

June 2, 2010 – *Evergreen State College student body votes for boycott of Caterpillar equipment, becoming “CAT-free campus”; Student Senate votes unanimously to support BDS*

Spring, 2010 – *Evergreen State College Student Body votes for divestment from companies involved in Israeli occupation* – Olympia, Washington

February 12, 2009 – *Hampshire College becomes first campus to divest from the Israeli occupation* – Amherst, Massachusetts

2005, 2006, 2010, 2014 – *University of Michigan at Dearborn Student Government passes divestment resolution* – Dearborn, Michigan

April, 2003 – *Wayne State University student council votes for divestiture* – Detroit, Michigan


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Am I understanding your argument correctly?


No, illiterate. It's a simple cartoon that even young children can understand.


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> I wonder how this legislation, if passed, will affect these kids at these great American colleges and universities...
> 
> May 10, 2017 – *Associated Students, Inc. Senate at Cal State University – Long Beach (CSULB) passes resolution to divest from Israel* – Long Beach, California
> 
> ...



I think you should cut and paste a long list of irrelevant piffle to let us know.


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> I wonder how this legislation, if passed, will affect these kids at these great American colleges and universities...
> 
> May 10, 2017 – *Associated Students, Inc. Senate at Cal State University – Long Beach (CSULB) passes resolution to divest from Israel* – Long Beach, California
> 
> ...


Aw boo boo.  Still whining.  Those fascist anti free speech antisemtic anti American organizations had it coming for a long time.


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Am I understanding your argument correctly?
> ...



What's preventing you from seeing the symbolism describing the racist, fascist, theocratic ideology of Islamic totalitarianism?


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## Shusha (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Am I understanding your argument correctly?
> ...



Okay, so you are arguing that indigenous and prior peoples have no rights then.  Fine.  Baby #2 possesses the crib, by right.  Until she is bumped by baby #3.


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

Roudy said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder how this legislation, if passed, will affect these kids at these great American colleges and universities...
> ...


Look at how well destroying free speech at your israeli schools has worked out for you.


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Roudy said:
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> 
> > louie888 said:
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Wrong thread retard. Remember you created another thread openly whining why your Islamo-fascists no longer have the right to bully Americans into submitting to their warped ideology. Did you get a brain fart while banging your head on the rug for your noon namaz prayer?


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## MJB12741 (Jul 22, 2017)

MJB12741 said:


> louie888 said:
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> > MJB12741 said:
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Eh, Louie.  Still waiting for you in all your intgelligence to explain the meaning of this.  Please don't just run away from it again.  'Atta boy.


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)

Get it, got it?


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## Roudy (Jul 22, 2017)

We are bery beastful beoble! Blease!


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## MJB12741 (Jul 22, 2017)

MJB12741 said:


> MJB12741 said:
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Gosh still no Louie to educate us in all his wisdom.  Oh Louie please help me.  Those Zionists are laughing their asses off at me for giving you this opportunity with no reply whatsoever.


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## ProudVeteran76 (Jul 22, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> The solution has been in front of our face for decades, all based on international law.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration




Too bad the Arabs didn't believe " International Law" applied to them before 1967


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## montelatici (Jul 22, 2017)

ProudVeteran76 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The solution has been in front of our face for decades, all based on international law.
> ...



Of course "International Law"  applied to the Muslims and Christians before 1967 and they knew it. Unfortunately, the UN ignored International Law and helped the Jews from Europe to colonize Palestine.


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ProudVeteran76 said:
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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Why don't you tell us what international law was broken when the jewish people were encouraged to immigrate to your invented "country of Pal'istan".


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## Hollie (Jul 22, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ProudVeteran76 said:
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> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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What international law was applicable to the Moslem and Christian invaders / colonizers?


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## jwoodie (Jul 22, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It's a simple cartoon that even young children can understand.




Since young children are incapable of adult reasoning, it follows that this cartoon is designed to appeal to people with immature minds (such as yourself?).  In addition, the "crib" analogy exposes a logical gap:  Who built the crib? 

Is it your assertion that the modern State of Israel has stolen all of its technology, development and infrastructure from the indigenous Palestinians?  Or is it just the fact that Israel exists on any piece of land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Indian Ocean?  

Are you aware that "Palestine" was a creation of British and French diplomats carving up the Ottoman Empire after WW1?  If anyone has a legitimate claim to that land it is the Turks, not the Palestinians. 

The fact of the matter is that the Palestinians have been played by their Arab masters in the same way that disaffected minorities in the U.S. are played by their political masters:  Keep them focused on imaginary enemies so they don't turn on their masters.


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## IsaacNewton (Jul 22, 2017)

The fake Kershchins in the US are afraid to allow Israel fend for itself. In their minds Israel exists and so prophecy of end times is true. If Israel were to cease to exist their flying grandpa would not come back for another thousand years. Too long for most of them to wait. So we have a country of 10 million people, about .0014 of the population of the entire human race, causing tens of thousands of people to die horrible deaths. Are Israelis just that selfish? Their lives are sacrosanct but everyone else is expendable? 

It's the human race, do not look for sanity.


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## montelatici (Jul 22, 2017)

jwoodie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > It's a simple cartoon that even young children can understand.
> ...



Well, if that wasn't the most amount of bullshit from an ignoramus in one post.  The inhabitants of the territory had the only legitimate claim to the land pursuant to Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations.


*"ARTICLE 22.*
To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them *and which are inhabited by peoples* not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League."

Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

By the way Palestine was established about 2,000 years ago, by the Romans.


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## ProudVeteran76 (Jul 22, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ProudVeteran76 said:
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Yawn..,,,  Israel has no right to exist. Just more proof they will never accept the " 67  Borders"


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2017)

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
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Define immigrate.


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## montelatici (Jul 22, 2017)

ProudVeteran76 said:


> montelatici said:
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Agreed.  That's why the Jews of Israel will end up like the white Rhodesians instead of the white South Africans.


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## louie888 (Jul 22, 2017)

montelatici said:


> That's why the Jews of Israel will end up like the white Rhodesians instead of the white South Africans.


Can you elaborate here? I have seen you post this and I don't really get your point.


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## Lipush (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It seems like every thread devolves into crap as israel's shills only wish for their narrative to be repeated ad nauseum. As this happens, how simple this topic is gets lost, hence these circular threads that become nothing more than israeli mouthpieces lying and then insulting anyone who dares to disagree, as those who support truth and peace are smeared as racists and terrorists,  because hasbara's first rule is to accuse their enemy of exactly what the israeli jews are guilty of.
> 
> View attachment 139994
> 
> ...



The 90's just called, they want their stereotype back.

You say Jews think they have right's because it's "God's claim" and "because of the bible"?

No, Jews want the land because thousands of Israeli babies are born every day, are natives of the land and have no real reason to go away.

That picture suits the Palestinians, though, just fine.

Just because someone lost in a war sixty years ago and was placed somewhere else, they think they can throw over the crib of a newborn Israeli baby, so the Palestinian baby could live there instead.

Classic.


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## ProudVeteran76 (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ProudVeteran76 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


 
Just confirmed there is no reason why Israel should go back to " borders" that were never recognized in the first place or alliw " Right of Return" Wgat a Fuckin Asshole


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## jwoodie (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Well, if that wasn't the most amount of bullshit from an ignoramus in one post.



That's right, it wasn't.  But yours is, since it didn't address a single point I raised.


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## montelatici (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > That's why the Jews of Israel will end up like the white Rhodesians instead of the white South Africans.
> ...



Whites still form a part (the wealthiest) of the society and government in South Africa because they compromised when they were compeletely in power and in charge.  The white Rhodesians resisted giving up white rule until they were no longer able to control the armed resistance and nearly all whites had to leave.


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## jwoodie (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> louie888 said:
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> > montelatici said:
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In what way are the Israelis unwilling to compromise?  Conversely, in what way are the Palestinians willing to compromise?


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## Hollie (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> louie888 said:
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Do you think the few remaining Christians in either of Gaza'istan or Fatah'istan will survive the next decade before being completely driven out?


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## louie888 (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> louie888 said:
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> > montelatici said:
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Ah, OK.

I gotta say, you are awesome, your research is impeccable and it's a pleasure to watch you do your thing.


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## montelatici (Jul 23, 2017)

jwoodie said:


> montelatici said:
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> > louie888 said:
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1. They have never agreed to permit the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state. (All the offers have included indefinite continued military occupation)
2. They have refused to follow UN Resolutions (e.g. 191) regarding the right of return of the Palestinians to their homes.
3. They have refused to return to 1967 borders per UN Resolution(s).

What should the Palestinians compromise, the Jews have taken more than 60% of their land already.


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## louie888 (Jul 23, 2017)

How do you people not get this?


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## jwoodie (Jul 23, 2017)

In what way are the Israelis unwilling to compromise? Conversely, in what way are the Palestinians willing to compromise?

_1. They have never agreed to permit the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state. (All the offers have included indefinite continued military occupation)
2. They have refused to follow UN Resolutions (e.g. 191) regarding the right of return of the Palestinians to their homes.
3. They have refused to return to 1967 borders per UN Resolution(s).

What should the Palestinians compromise, the Jews have taken more than 60% of their land already._

Thanks for the answer(s), but you have unwittingly undermined your own thesis:

1.  The Israelis are willing to compromise on a Palestinian State, but the Palestinians are unwilling to compromise on Israeli security (or even recognize an Israeli State).

2.  The Israelis are willing to compromise by trading land for peace; the Palestinians are not.

3.  See #1 and #2 above.  The only compromise you are willing to accept is Israel committing national suicide.


----------



## Roudy (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ProudVeteran76 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Now that's some funny shit.


----------



## Roudy (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Here we go....same repetitive irrelevant false garbage, different thread.  Over and over and over.  The guy literally has nothing but this constant barrage of lies and hate.


----------



## Roudy (Jul 23, 2017)

montelatici said:


> ProudVeteran76 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


How's that defective comparison and faulty strategy working out? In light of the recent bill that has been introduced in the US that makes it illegal to force anybody to boycott Israel or Israelis?  You guys are constantly trying to go up shit creek without a paddle.


----------



## Shusha (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> How do you people not get this?




You haven't answered my questions, Louie.  Who gets the crib?  Baby #1 or Baby #2?


----------



## louie888 (Jul 23, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you people not get this?
> ...


Duh.


----------



## Shusha (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Duh.



If its so easy, just say it.


----------



## louie888 (Jul 23, 2017)

Shusha said:


> If its so easy, just say it.


Go poll a million people. Separate into 2 groups. Non-zionist and zionist. Tell me what you come up with.


----------



## Shusha (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > If its so easy, just say it.
> ...



I think I will come up with a whole bunch of Arab hypocrites.


----------



## Hollie (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



See, this is the problem you run in to when you're not plagiarizing others' posts. Left on your on, you're just helpless.


----------



## louie888 (Jul 23, 2017)

Shusha said:


> I think I will come up with a whole bunch of Arab hypocrites.


I'm sure the entire world, but for the zionists will offer you the same answer.


----------



## Shusha (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > I think I will come up with a whole bunch of Arab hypocrites.
> ...



Then they are all hypocrites.  See, the Arab Palestinians, and their supporters, insist that they are both baby #1 and baby #2, at various times when it suits them to.


----------



## louie888 (Jul 23, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Lie about whatever you like. I am simply showing you how the rest of the world sees it.


----------



## Shusha (Jul 23, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Lie about whatever you like. I am simply showing you how the rest of the world sees it.



You won't even answer the question.  Its a simple question.  Because you know it will reveal yourself to be the hypocrite that you are, and also show that the rest of the world buys into ridiculous Palestinian hypocrisy.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 23, 2017)

jwoodie said:


> In what way are the Israelis unwilling to compromise? Conversely, in what way are the Palestinians willing to compromise?
> 
> _1. They have never agreed to permit the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state. (All the offers have included indefinite continued military occupation)
> 2. They have refused to follow UN Resolutions (e.g. 191) regarding the right of return of the Palestinians to their homes.
> ...





jwoodie said:


> 2. The Israelis are willing to compromise by trading land for peace; the Palestinians are not.


Israel has no land.

Who wrote this crap?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 1, 2017)

The above illustrates clearly how easy it is to understand what is happening in Palestine. It is the bottom line of the israeli narrative. What else is there to say, right?


----------



## Eloy (Aug 1, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 140006
> ...


The indigenous Palestinians are a people who are being denied their land, freedom, and self determination by the Israelis here and now. This is a contemporary problem unlike treatment of the Jews by the Romans millennia ago.


----------



## Kondor3 (Aug 1, 2017)

> We need to stop pretending that this issue is so difficult. It is obvious even to a young child.


True.

As soon as the Muslim-Palestinian squatters move to the East Bank of the Jordan, this all goes away.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 1, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> jwoodie said:
> 
> 
> > In what way are the Israelis unwilling to compromise? Conversely, in what way are the Palestinians willing to compromise?
> ...



Israel has no land? You mean except for their land. 

Do the mullahs at your madrassah write the nonsense you dump into threads?


----------



## Hollie (Aug 1, 2017)

Eloy said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



The slogan "indigenous Pal'istanians" really means Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters, right?


----------



## Shusha (Aug 1, 2017)

Eloy said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...




The treatment of Jews today is most certainly a contemporary problem.  Do people have a right to restoration or not?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 1, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > jwoodie said:
> ...


It's true. Look it up.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 1, 2017)

Squatters for centuries... good one.


Hollie said:


> The slogan "indigenous Pal'istanians" really means Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters, right?


You have an amazing grasp of the irrelevant.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 1, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The treatment of Jews today is most certainly a contemporary problem. Do people have a right to restoration or not?


Please stop derailing. This one is obvious.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 1, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Please stop derailing. This one is obvious.



Really?  Is it obvious?  Answer the question.  Do people have a right to restoration?

If they do -- then the Jewish people do as well.  Unless you are making up special rules for Jews.  (You know the word for that, yes?).

If they do not -- then the Palestinians do not.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 1, 2017)

You are not making any sense. The OP IS simple!

You can't even steal a crib because you used to sleep in it, let alone peoples' homes who have been there centuries.


----------



## peach174 (Aug 1, 2017)

louie888 said:


> How do you people not get this?




How do you not get territory?


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> You are not making any sense. The OP IS simple!
> 
> You can't even steal a crib because you used to sleep in it, let alone peoples' homes who have been there centuries.




Cool.  So you are saying people have no rights to restoration after their crib has been usurped. Then since the Palestinians no longer sleep in that crib, it no longer belongs to them.  We just solved the entire conflict!


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > You are not making any sense. The OP IS simple!
> ...


Just tell me what makes you believe that you can take land and homes from people.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Just tell me what makes you believe that you can take land and homes from people.



I don't.  I believe in restoring indigenous peoples.  I just believe it for ALL peoples.

Is that your answer then?  That people should be restored when their land and homes are taken away from them?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> I don't.



Good.

The rest is off topic. I don't care about.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > I don't.
> ...



Lol.  Of course you don't.  You refuse to take a stand on the question, you asked, for fear that it will reveal your hypocrisy.  

I've spent this whole thread trying to get you to take a stand.  And you refuse. Why?  Because your true position is untenable.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


I just proved the title of this thread. *You and I both believe that you can NOT take land and homes from people.*

You can argue that other crap with others who wish to on an appropriate thread.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *You and I both believe that you can NOT take land and homes from people. *


*
*
Yep.  And that is why both the Jewish peoples and the Arab Palestinian peoples need to be restored.  Because its not okay to take land and homes from people.  The problem, the reason for the conflict is that these two restorations are mutually exclusive, so some sort of compromise must be reached.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Yep. And that is why both the Jewish peoples and the Arab Palestinian peoples need to be restored.


And there is your typical conflation of biblical Jews with the invaders of Palestine who are European. If they cannot live in peace, restore them to Europe (or somewhere where people want them).

They continue to steal land and homes which we agree is wrong.

Problem solved.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> They continue to steal land and homes which we agree is wrong.



They are not stealing land.  They are one of the claimants to be restored.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > They continue to steal land and homes which we agree is wrong.
> ...


Europeans cannot claim land there. Look at it as if China was claiming the Bahamas.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Sure.  But the objective reasoning behind your argument here is that a people removed from a land and forced elsewhere lose their claim to the land.  Which goes against your previous claim that a people removed from a land and forced elsewhere have the right to be restored.  

You keep bouncing back and forth.  You keep trying to have it both ways.  Pick a side and STAY there.  Do a people who have been forcibly removed from a land have the right to be restored to that land?  Yes or no?

See, I THINK you want to argue that a people should be restored to a land.  But not the Jews.  So then you have to concoct a crazy story, completely contrary to reality, that the Jewish people have nothing to do with the land in question.  Like China has nothing to do with the Bahamas.  

But you are pretty scared of that argument too.  And rightfully so.  Because its stupid.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> So then you have to concoct a crazy story, completely contrary to reality, that the Jewish people have nothing to do with the land in question. Like China has nothing to do with the Bahamas.


Nope. Europeans have as much right to Palestine as the Chinese have to the Bahamas. You keep conflating.


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...








Israel is one of the very few countries in the Middle East where it is nice.  Gaza could be a tourist paradise.  The Pali's could be making money hand over fist and living nice lives.  Instead, idiots, like you and the OP, continuously whine about everything except that which is factual.  The Pali's have been fucked over by their leadership FOREVER!.  The only reason why their lives are shit is because they continuously listen to dipshits like you.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> Israel is one of the very few countries in the Middle East where it is nice.


All we here about from you people are rockets and suicide bombers. That's nice?



westwall said:


> Gaza could be a tourist paradise. The Pali's could be making money hand over fist and living nice lives. Instead, idiots, like you and the OP, continuously whine about everything except that which is factual. The Pali's have been fucked over by their leadership FOREVER!. The only reason why their lives are shit is because they continuously listen to dipshits like you.


Totally off topic. The OP really is obvious. Shusha even finally admitted it. It is wrong to steal homes.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Nope. Europeans have as much right to Palestine as the Chinese have to the Bahamas. You keep conflating.



Exactly.  So your end game on this thread is that people have the right to be restored when their land is stolen from them.  That should end in a period.  But for you, it doesn't.  For you it continues:

Except the Jewish people.  Because the Jewish people have nothing to do with, you know, Jewish history.  Its a silly argument.  Because the Jewish people of today couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Jewish people of history, even though they share a culture, a religious faith, a system of laws, life event celebrations, a language, holidays, clothing, special foods, a name, a history and every other aspect of a shared culture that you could possibly imagine.  Its a silly argument.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

You keep conflating.

If you are really still confused by such an easy concept, keep repeating to yourself that Europeans have as much right to Palestine as the Chinese have to the Bahamas until you understand that.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha even finally admitted it. It is wrong to steal homes.



So give the Temple Mount and Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria and Israel back to the Jewish people.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha even finally admitted it. It is wrong to steal homes.
> ...


You are again conflating, but let us assume that the entire jewish narrative is true. For you to accomplish the above would require murder (which you previously admitted was wrong) and the theft of land and homes which you admitted was wrong right on this thread.

Now before posting again, remember that Europeans have as much right to Palestine as the Chinese have to the Bahamas.


----------



## keepitreal (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> God said I can have your house. Are you good with that?


Lol...God promised to return His people
to THEIR homeland, that they were driven from

God will do whatever He wants...deal with it!


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> ...but let us assume that the entire jewish narrative is true. For you to accomplish the above would require murder (which you previously admitted was wrong) and the theft of land and homes which you admitted was wrong right on this thread.



The entire Jewish narrative is true with respect to Jewish history in that place.  

And to accomplish the restoration of both the Jewish and Arab Palestinian peoples requires nothing more than mutual recognition, respect and compromise. 

Apparently that is too much for the Arabs to cope with.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

keepitreal said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > God said I can have your house. Are you good with that?
> ...





Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > ...but let us assume that the entire jewish narrative is true. For you to accomplish the above would require murder (which you previously admitted was wrong) and the theft of land and homes which you admitted was wrong right on this thread.
> ...


Both of these posts go back to the idea that G-d wants his chosen people to kill his children.

It is ridiculous for obvious reasons.

Now before posting again, remember that Europeans have as much right to Palestine as the Chinese have to the Bahamas.


----------



## Picaro (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha even finally admitted it. It is wrong to steal homes.
> ...



Along with Hebron and dozens of other villages and towns with long Jewish roots.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > fncceo said:
> ...


It is clear that you are well versed in Israel's version of history. Here is a more accurate version that is worthy of critique. I would be pleased to discuss the information presented.


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Wrong.  I am well versed in the history of stupidity.  The Pali's have received hundreds of millions of the American Peoples tax dollars and the place they call home is a shit hole of their OWN making.  The simple reality is the Palestinian people are nothing more than professional victims so that their leadership can live large on their suffering.  The Pali leadership doesn't suffer.  They enjoy the night life in Monaco while the people they supposedly represent get their homes blown to hell, and their children get turned into bombs.  
Idiot's, like you, enable that bullshit to continue.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> Wrong. I am well versed in the history of stupidity. The Pali's have received hundreds of millions of the American Peoples tax dollars and the place they call home is a shit hole of their OWN making. The simple reality is the Palestinian people are nothing more than professional victims so that their leadership can live large on their suffering. The Pali leadership doesn't suffer. They enjoy the night life in Monaco while the people they supposedly represent get their homes blown to hell, and their children get turned into bombs.
> Idiot's, like you, enable that bullshit to continue.


Spoken like a true psychotic, pathological lying A-hole.

Back up with proof:
"The Pali's have received hundreds of millions of the American Peoples tax dollars..."

The rest, well, more total crap and COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC! SUCKS THAT WE HAVE RULES that only apply to some. 

Back on topic if you please... is it right to steal land and peoples homes? YES OR NO? Shusha already admitted that that is wrong. Can you?


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong. I am well versed in the history of stupidity. The Pali's have received hundreds of millions of the American Peoples tax dollars and the place they call home is a shit hole of their OWN making. The simple reality is the Palestinian people are nothing more than professional victims so that their leadership can live large on their suffering. The Pali leadership doesn't suffer. They enjoy the night life in Monaco while the people they supposedly represent get their homes blown to hell, and their children get turned into bombs.
> ...








How many millions of dollars have to be pissed down a rat hole before you will wake up bunky?  As to your "topic", who stole from whom first?  The oldest written records that exist in the WORLD say it is the Jewish homeland.  That is an inarguable FACT.

You provide nothing but propaganda and lies to back up your silliness.

And yet again, the claim is the Israeli's are trying to eradicate the Palestinians, and they actually could if they wanted to.  But the reality is the Palestinian population has increased.  So, yet another lie from you.  

Did the Israeli's do bad things in 1948?  Absolutely.  Name a single country that has never done a bad thing and I will applaud them for their restraint, but I have yet to find one that is so virtuous.

And, yet again, if the Pali's actually wanted their lot in life to be better they could do something about it.  Their leadership though loves the high life and they love not having to work hard to get that high life.  Face it, they get to kick back, drink their booze, play with their women, and all the while their people are suffering.  Suffering so that their lazy fucking leadership can party down without having to do anything more than demand American tax dollars.  Dollars that do nothing in Gaza, but support a very nice lifestyle in Monaco.



FY 2007—$86.4 Million
FY 2008—$25 Million
FY 2008 Supplemental—$50 Million
FY 2009—$25 Million
FY 2009 Supplemental—$106 Million
FY 2010—$100 Million[15][33][34]


United States security assistance to the Palestinian National Authority - Wikipedia


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Even if we believe the jew edited wikipedia, that is nothing compared to the over trillion dollars that we have given your zionist masters to carry out their crimes.

BUT WE ARE STILL OFF TOPIC AND I AM REALLY TRYING HERE. I know, different poster, different rules...

Back on topic if you please... *is it right to steal land and peoples homes? YES OR NO? Shusha already admitted that that is wrong. Can you?*


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Even if we believe the jew edited wikipedia, that is nothing compared to the over trillion dollars that we have given your zionist masters to carry out their crimes.
> 
> BUT WE ARE STILL OFF TOPIC AND I AM REALLY TRYING HERE. I know, different poster, different rules...
> 
> Back on topic if you please... *is it right to steal land and peoples homes? YES OR NO? Shusha already admitted that that is wrong. Can you?*












I already said that what the Israelis did in 1948 was wrong.  Are you blind, or do you not understand the English language?  However, it IS their homeland.  So, once again, how far back are you willing to go in history?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Forget the ethnic cleansing when the Europeans first arrived.* Is it right to steal land and peoples homes? YES OR NO? Shusha already admitted that that is wrong. Can you?
*
It seems like you are saying "yes."

If that is true, the rest is still off topic crap and you actually understand how simple this is and have proven the OP.

And ftr, because they don't teach history or geography at your temple, you, like shusha continue conflating biblical Jews from Palestine with Europeans who came from a totally different land and claimed Palestine as theirs.

When you people stop doing this, this forum becomes unnecessary.


----------



## MJB12741 (Aug 2, 2017)

Right on Louie.  I am with you 100%.  NO, it is not right to steal a peoples land like the Palestinian squatters have done on Israel's land.


Where Did the Palestinians Come From, Anyway?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


That is some piece of deflection you have there.

You push the reply button on my post then go off on an irrelevant rant. There was no mention of any of the information in my post.


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Forget the ethnic cleansing when the Europeans first arrived.* Is it right to steal land and peoples homes? YES OR NO? Shusha already admitted that that is wrong. Can you?
> *
> It seems like you are saying "yes."
> 
> ...







No, it isn't.  But once again, the Jews were there LONG before any Palestinian.  Not just century's mind you but THOUSANDS of years before any Palestinian ever set foot in the holy land.  Read ANY historical document from the area whether it be Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or pagan, and there is a glaring fact that stares back at you.  The JEWS were THERE.  Not the Palestinians. 

So.  Using your logic, the Palestinians are the interlopers.  Not the Jews.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> No, it isn't. But once again, the Jews were there LONG before any Palestinian.


Nope.

Different "jews."

If those same people who hold Palestine today decided to call themselves Buddhist instead of Jewish, would it still be their land?


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > No, it isn't. But once again, the Jews were there LONG before any Palestinian.
> ...









Really?  Do tell.  How are they "different" Jews?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> Really? Do tell. How are they "different" Jews?


As I have explained numerous times, you people conflate the biblical Jews from the biblical "Land of Israel" with today's modern, terrorist jews who converted to judaism, came from Europe and continue to steal our promised land. The fact that they have the balls to even call it Israel is disgusting.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> I already said that what the Israelis did in 1948 was wrong.


Full stop!

You are willing to let the rights of the violated and brutalized Palestinians slide. This is not a complicated conflict and the solution has been in front of our face for decades.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > I already said that what the Israelis did in 1948 was wrong.
> ...










The Palestinians have Gaza.  How about they turn it into the economic powerhouse it could be and learn to live with their neighbors.  Neighbors who's ties to the land predate theirs by millenia.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

Louie, you have repeatedly said that I admit it is wrong to steal people's land.  You have also admitted that it is wrong to steal people's land.  

What you keep forgetting to add is that it is Jewish land.  It belongs to the indigenous Jewish people.  It matters not one bit that the Jewish people lived in a diaspora for any length of time.  Jewish is Jewish.


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Really? Do tell. How are they "different" Jews?
> ...








Yeah, there is simply too much historical fact that shows this assertion of yours to be ridiculous on its face.  The sad part is people, like you, believe your own bull poo.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> The Palestinians have Gaza. How about they turn it into the economic powerhouse it could be and learn to live with their neighbors. Neighbors who's ties to the land predate theirs by millenia.


And more off topic nonsense. You are a hypocrite, sir.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Really? Do tell. How are they "different" Jews?
> ...



You didn't answer westwall's question.  How are they "different".  How can you tell if someone is a "real" Jew and not a "synthetic" one?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> Yeah, there is simply too much historical fact that shows this assertion of yours to be ridiculous on its face. The sad part is people, like you, believe your own bull poo.


But, you won't show how because you can't. You have nothing. *It is wrong to steal land and homes and that is obvious even to a small child* (with any morals).


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


I did, illiterate.

As I have explained numerous times, you people conflate the biblical Jews from the biblical "Land of Israel" with today's modern, terrorist jews who converted to judaism, came from Europe and continue to steal our promised land. The fact that they have the balls to even call it Israel is disgusting.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> The Palestinians have Gaza.


No they don't.

Piece of Israeli bullshit.

This is just a slime post.


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians have Gaza. How about they turn it into the economic powerhouse it could be and learn to live with their neighbors. Neighbors who's ties to the land predate theirs by millenia.
> ...








How is it off topic?  Is Gaza Palestinian or not?  Do you care about Palestinians or are you more interested in keeping the conflict going so that your pals can live the high life on the blood and suffering of the Palestinians?  At some point you are either going to realize that your position is bull shit or you won't.  What will not change is the fact that the Israelis ain't moving.  No matter how much you whine and snivel like a ten year old child they aren't leaving.

So, when are you going to stop the mental masturbatory fantasy life you have been leading and grow up?


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







Yes, you seem to enjoy making that claim but the Jews were never exterminated (which is a pre requisite for your claim) so the simple fact is the historical record is very clear about how the Jews have been moved from place to place over the millenia.  It's not arguable, your assertion is nothing more than fantasy.


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians have Gaza.
> ...






Really?  i don't see any Jews living in Gaza.  Please show me some.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> I did, illiterate.
> 
> As I have explained numerous times, you people conflate the biblical Jews from the biblical "Land of Israel" with today's modern, ... jews ....



You have not.  The above does not explain how to tell a real Jew from a synthetic one.  It just reiterates that they are not the same but it does not explain *how or why* they are not the same.  

Are there any "real" Jews left?  How can you tell that they are real Jews?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

It is off topic because this is how obvious it is that stealing land and homes is wrong. This has NOTHING to do with your wild hallucinations about the Palestinians that you people slander them with on every thread regardless of topic and just because you are losing an argument.


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



They have and have been kicked out of everywhere because they can't get along with others. But, the biblical jews and their diaspora has nothing to do with the European converts who hold Palestine today.

*Again now, if the same Europeans who hold Palestine hostage today converted to Buddhism instead of Judaism, would it still be OK for them to steal Palestine and call it Israel?*


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It is off topic because this is how obvious it is that stealing land and homes is wrong. This has NOTHING to do with your wild hallucinations about the Palestinians that you people slander them with on every thread regardless of topic and just because you are losing an argument.








Really?  How are we losing the argument?  The JEWS are there!  You're not.  They have been there since time was recorded.  At no time has there been no Jew living in the Holy Land.  They have always been there in one form or another.  Your claims are silly and unsupported by well known fact.


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> The JEWS are there! You're not. They have been there since time was recorded.


You are still conflating.

*Again now, if the same Europeans who hold Palestine hostage today converted to Buddhism instead of Judaism, would it still be OK for them to steal Palestine and call it Israel?*


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


True, that prison is just for Palestinians.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > It is off topic because this is how obvious it is that stealing land and homes is wrong. This has NOTHING to do with your wild hallucinations about the Palestinians that you people slander them with on every thread regardless of topic and just because you are losing an argument.
> ...


Indeed, the Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.


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## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

Ah, come on Louie.  Where did you go?  

How can I tell a real Jew from a synthetic one?


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Ah, come on Louie.  Where did you go?
> 
> How can I tell a real Jew from a synthetic one?


*It is obvious even to a young child. *


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## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, come on Louie.  Where did you go?
> ...



Then it should be very easy for you to explain to me.  

Seriously, louie.  There are what? fifteen million Jews in the world?  How can you tell which are real and which aren't?


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Stop derailing from the topic. I have explained this multiple times.


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## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Stop derailing from the topic. I have explained this multiple times.



You haven't.  Not once.  The point of the thread is to determine who has rights to the crib.  You say that synthetic Jews have no rights to the crib.  So how can I tell if a Jew is a synthetic Jew without rights?  

Come on.  I really want to know.


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

Shusha said:


> You say that synthetic Jews have no rights to the crib.


I have never used the term "synthetic jew," illiterate. Use the quote function, effin moron.

And STOP PRETENDING! This really is obvious to small children.


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## Indeependent (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > You say that synthetic Jews have no rights to the crib.
> ...


You should know.


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## Shusha (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > You say that synthetic Jews have no rights to the crib.
> ...



Then you should easily be able to explain it to me.  

I know you have not used the term "synthetic Jew".  Its a term I borrowed from one of your teammates.  The term you use is "European".  

All Europeans are synthetic Jews, then?  Is that what you are claiming?  Okay, how can I tell if I am a European Jew?  And what about the other Jews from around the world?  Are they all "real" because they are NOT European?

Are the Palestinians living in Chile not real "Palestinians" while those living in the US are?  Who gets to determine which "Palestinians" are real and which are not?  Me?


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## peach174 (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



When you live in occupied territory's the occupying government owns it not the people.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
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> > louie888 said:
> ...








Never claimed there was.  But you claim that they have no claim which is ridiculous on its face.  Then you invent unsupportable fantasy tales to try and support your position.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > The JEWS are there! You're not. They have been there since time was recorded.
> ...







Your argument is a logical fallacy.  I suggest you look it up.  And then try and understand what a logical fallacy is.  Then, get back to us.


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> Your argument is a logical fallacy.


It is neither. Look it up. It is actually a simple question:

*Again now, if the same Europeans who hold Palestine hostage today converted to Buddhism instead of Judaism, would it still be OK for them to steal Palestine and call it Israel?*


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Prison?  A prison of their own making perhaps.  But it IS of their own making.  That real estate if the Jews had it would be a tourist wonderland making money hand over fist.  And why is that?  Because the Jews are good at managing money and because they BUILD things.  The Pali's have never built anything that I can find.   They only seem able to destroy things.  There is something severely wrong with a population that doesn't know better than to not shit in their own home.

Birds understand that fact.  Why don't the Pali's?  Are they stupider than birds?


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, the Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.


And why this even has to mentioned shows how out of touch some of you people are.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







No, you never have actually.  I have been waiting for months for you to step up and make your case but you always seem to run away.


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> Prison? A prison of their own making perhaps. But it IS of their own making. That real estate if the Jews had it would be a tourist wonderland making money hand over fist. And why is that? Because the Jews are good at managing money and because they BUILD things. The Pali's have never built anything that I can find. They only seem able to destroy things. There is something severely wrong with a population that doesn't know better than to not shit in their own home.
> 
> Birds understand that fact. Why don't the Pali's? Are they stupider than birds?


More off topic deflection noted.

Stealing land and homes is wrong.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Your argument is a logical fallacy.
> ...







Like I said junior, look up logical fallacy.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Prison? A prison of their own making perhaps. But it IS of their own making. That real estate if the Jews had it would be a tourist wonderland making money hand over fist. And why is that? Because the Jews are good at managing money and because they BUILD things. The Pali's have never built anything that I can find. They only seem able to destroy things. There is something severely wrong with a population that doesn't know better than to not shit in their own home.
> ...






Agreed.  How far back do you want to take it?  Who was there first?


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Like I said pisstain, look up question.

*Again now, if the same Europeans who hold Palestine hostage today converted to Buddhism instead of Judaism, would it still be OK for them to steal Palestine and call it Israel?*

So simple as stated in the OP.


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## Indeependent (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Too bad only 10 people on earth agree with you.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







And your simplistic, childish question is a LOGICAL FALLACY.  LOOK UP THE TERM AND LEARN SOMETHING!


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


No, you look it up. It is just a question. You either answer it and we can discern your logic or don't. But, stop embarrassing yourself.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...








And you revert to childlike rhetoric yet again.  And again I ask you, how long back are you willing to go?  You can throw yourself on the floor and wail like a little brat all you wish, but the question was already answered, and you are in the wrong.


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## louie888 (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Don't go back anywhere and answer the question.

*If the same Europeans who hold Palestine hostage today converted to Buddhism instead of Judaism, would it still be OK for them to steal Palestine and call it Israel?*


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Oh jeese, another slime post.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


I don't know. The Jews came up out of Egypt.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







Sooooo, 3,000 years?  Give or take?


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


So, the people who only lived there for 2000 years can get the boot?


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## Hollie (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


That is a shame about the Christians getting booted out of Egypt by the muhammedans.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Off topic.


----------



## jwoodie (Aug 2, 2017)

Kondor3 said:


> > We need to stop pretending that this issue is so difficult. It is obvious even to a young child.
> 
> 
> True.
> ...



The Jordanians don't want them.  That is why they were so eager to hand over the West Bank to Israel.


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...








Only they didn't.  They were living in the southern Arabian peninsula until quite recently.  There were Jews in the region CONTINUOUSLY for over 3,000 years.  The Pali's only showed up in the last 150 years or so.


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## Hollie (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



It was a relevant response to your whining about "people who lived there for 2,000 years. Egypt was once a Christian majority until the genocide by muhamnedans.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


So you are saying that Haifa, Jaffa, Acca, Gaza, Jerusalem, Bethlehem, etc. and hundreds of villages had nobody living there 150 years ago?


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







They certainly didn't have Palestinians living there.  That is provable.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


So there was a mass exodus and a whole new population moved in?

Link?


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## Indeependent (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Yes; the 1948 war that you wrote out of history.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


 Do try to keep up.


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## Indeependent (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Reading your bullshit makes it hard to stay up.


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## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Here's a good essay on the demographics of Israel.  Read it and learn something factual, as opposed to the propaganda you surround yourself with.



"From the period of the Crusades to the beginning of modern times, the population of Palestine remained at a near constant level.2This apparent stability is significant, as populations naturally tend to increase over time. It is estimated that there were 205,000 people living in Palestine in the mid 1500s.3By 1800, the population had only grown to 275,000, reflecting about a thousandth of a percent of average growth a year.4By 1890, still before any significant Jewish immigration, the population had made a slightly larger jump, to 532,000.5But even with this increase, the nineteenth century growth rate was still a small 0.7% per year.6By comparison, in the 1940s the Muslim growth rate in the Middle East was closer to 3.07%.7

A number of factors account for this dramatic underpopulation, one of which is environmental. Many people fled the area as early as the fourteenth century as a result of the Black Plague. Starting shortly thereafter, many areas became swamp-infested and malarial, especially in the northern valleys. There is much evidence to suggest that, by the mid-nineteenth century, the region had become nearly uninhabitable. Around this time, German Templars tried to settle the Kinrot Valley, where Jesus had lived, but were forced to leave due to the prevalence of malaria.8Jewish settlers in the 1880s attempted to inhabit the Hula valley, but in some places child mortality rates were nearly 100% because of disease.9The Talmud remarks, �If the Garden of Eden is in the Land of Israel, Beit-Shean is its gateway.�10But when the scholar H.B. Tristram visited the area in the 1860s, traveling in the footsteps of Jesus, he claimed, �We saw not a tree....It is scarcely conceivable how any human beings can inhabit such sites; but such is the contrast, nowhere more settling than here, between ancient civilization and modern degradation.�11 Mark Twain was disillusioned by his trip to the Holy Land. He wrote, �Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes�desolate and unlovely�it is dreamland.�12Even by 1931, after many early Zionist efforts to clear the land, only a third of the whole region was cultivable.13No doubt, the lack of fertile land and presence of disease contributed to the comparatively limited population growth."

Harvard Israel Review (HIR)


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## Indeependent (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


If Tin went back in time and saw the truth he would be unable to handle it.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


OK, but that really does not answer the question.


----------



## keepitreal (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> keepitreal said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...





louie888 said:


> Both of these posts go back to the idea that G-d wants his chosen people to kill his children.
> 
> It is ridiculous for obvious reasons.


Oh please, that statement ^ is ridiculous for obvious reasons!


----------



## westwall (Aug 2, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...











Actually, the only way you could make that statement is if you CHOOSE to be blind.


----------



## keepitreal (Aug 2, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong. I am well versed in the history of stupidity. The Pali's have received hundreds of millions of the American Peoples tax dollars and the place they call home is a shit hole of their OWN making. The simple reality is the Palestinian people are nothing more than professional victims so that their leadership can live large on their suffering. The Pali leadership doesn't suffer. They enjoy the night life in Monaco while the people they supposedly represent get their homes blown to hell, and their children get turned into bombs.
> ...





louie888 said:


> Spoken like a true psychotic, pathological lying A-hole.


Fuck you! You want people to engage in a topic,
only if it lines up with your point of view.


louie888 said:


> Back on topic if you please... is it right to steal land and peoples homes? YES OR NO? Shusha already admitted that that is wrong. Can you?


You keep asking the same stupid question over and over...
as if its that simple...that's it, that's all

Know why your question is stupid....
because that is how countries were formed
and Empires were built, you moron...nothing new

Do you own land? If so, maybe you'd like to consider
donating the land to Native Indian descendants


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 2, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


I don't see where it shows that a whole population moved out and a whole new population moved in as you suggested.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

keepitreal said:


> Oh please, that statement ^ is ridiculous for obvious reasons!


State them... let's see.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

keepitreal said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


It is actually simple, even to a small child.

Is it right to steal land and peoples homes? YES OR NO? Shusha already admitted that that is wrong. Can you?


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> keepitreal said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







We already answered you.  Yes, it is wrong.  But, how far back is it OK to steal a peoples land?


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...









The entire region was in movement for centuries.  At some times there were almost no people due to disease and no arable land.  But even then, there were still Jews living there.  Thus it is the Palestinians who are the interlopers.


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## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> We already answered you. Yes, it is wrong.


Good.

Please stop now.


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## Shusha (Aug 3, 2017)

Its wrong to steal land.  The people from whom it was stolen was the Jewish people.  How are you planning to restore the Jewish people to their stolen land?


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > We already answered you. Yes, it is wrong.
> ...








Why?  Don't like having to deal with inconvenient truths?  That's just too bad for you.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


I agree with your history but I don't agree with your conclusion.

Palestine has been invaded, conquered, and occupied many times. Plus it was the cross road of trade and human migration forever. A lot of people came and went.

However, I don't believe that every time a new flag went up over city hall that everyone moved out and a whole new population moved in. Normally when a territory is conquered the political elites are removed and everyone else stays to be exploited. Somebody has to create the wealth that the conqueror wants to take.

Through all of this flux there was a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. These are the Palestinians of today.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 3, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Link?


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## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> Why? Don't like having to deal with inconvenient truths? That's just too bad for you.


Inconvenient truths? Wow, OK, let's break this down to it's simplest form.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...








No, they're not.  The only ethnic group who have been represented in Israel from the very beginning of written history are the Jews.  They are the only group that has had a constant presence there for the last 3,000 years.  The Palestinians didn't arrive until around 150 years ago.  The facts are very clear on that.


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## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Why? Don't like having to deal with inconvenient truths? That's just too bad for you.
> ...








Oh look, it's the simpleton again.  Riddle me this batman, the Jews have been in the region for the last 3,000 years.  The Palestinians only arrived about 150 years ago.  Who is taking the land away form who again?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> The only ethnic group who have been represented in Israel from the very beginning of written history are the Jews


No proof though.



westwall said:


> They are the only group that has had a constant presence there for the last 3,000 years.


No proof though.



westwall said:


> The Palestinians didn't arrive until around 150 years ago.


Palestine was called that since centuries before Christ. Israel was called that since 1948. The facts are very clear on that.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > The only ethnic group who have been represented in Israel from the very beginning of written history are the Jews
> ...








There is period history going back 3,000 years that prove beyond doubt that the Jews have always been there.  The various Muslim rulers have kept extensive tax records and they show beyond question that the Jews were never not there.  Your whole belief system is based on nothing more than fantasy.



And, no, it wasn't.  It was called Judea, and before that it was the Land of Canaan.


"Canaan was the name of a large and prosperous country (at times independent, at others a tributary to Egypt) which corresponds roughly to present-day Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel and was also known as Phoenicia. The origin of the name `Canaan’ for the land comes from various ancient texts (among them the Hebrew _Bible_) and there is no scholarly consensus on precisely where the name originated nor what it was intended to convey about the land. According to the _Bible_ the land was named after a man called Canaan, the grandson of Noah (_Genesis_ 10). Other theories cite `Canaan’ as derived from the Hurrian language for `purple’ and, as the Greeks knew the Canaanites as `Phoenicians’ (Greek for `purple’ as the Phoenicians worked, primarily at the city of Tyre, in purple dye and so were called by the Greeks `purple people’) this explanation is the most probable but, by no means, provable."

Canaan


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> There is period history going back 3,000 years that prove beyond doubt that the Jews have always been there.


I know that you state that.



westwall said:


> The various Muslim rulers have kept extensive tax records and they show beyond question that the Jews were never not there.


LOL

Your whole belief system is based on nothing more than fantasy.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > There is period history going back 3,000 years that prove beyond doubt that the Jews have always been there.
> ...






Wrong silly boy.  I don't state that.  The HISTORY states that.  You ignore well documented history to support your silly little infantile belief system.


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## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> Wrong silly boy. I don't state that. The HISTORY states that. You ignore well documented history to support your silly little infantile belief system.


Another statement, but still no proof.

And as we know, they don't teach history at your temple, so let me explain this as simply as possible. YOU HAVE DISQUALIFIED YOURSELF FROM ANY SERIOUS DISCUSSION IN THESE MATTERS. For you to claim that Muslim tax records confirm a Jewish presence for 3000 years is stupid beyond belief. There were not even Muslims to create tax records until centuries after your 3000 year clock supposedly begins. 

All you have are lies and fantasy.

BYE.


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## montelatici (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



The Palestinians are the descendants of the people that have always lived in the area.  After the birth of Jesus Christ the vast majority converted to Christianity by 400 AD.  The invading Zionists are European converts to Judaism.

"By the fifth century AD, the majority of non-Jews and Jews had become Christians by conversion ."

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.401.6750&rep=rep1&type=pdf


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## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

montelatici said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


This is a huge point, but you are making it for someone who believe that Muslims kept tax records for Jews before there were any Muslims. No, I am not making this up either.


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## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...









Showing yet again that you are completely clueless when it comes to history.  The Umayyad Caliphate began in the late 600's and they were the first Muslim government that kept tax records on the Jews within their sphere.  You see, silly person, you were free to practice your own religion so long as you paid a special tax to the Caliphate.  This is a well known fact, a fact that blows your fantasy land to smithereens, so you ignore well known history in your infantile effort to make a point.


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## rylah (Aug 3, 2017)

Really?? 
The original residents of Sur Bahir & Umm Tuba are from Arabian peninsula and Yemen , according to the Palestinian mayor himself.

Just one of many examples...


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## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Great, your temple doesn't teach history or math. 3000 years that began in 600, lol.


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## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

montelatici said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







No, they're not.  They share no language commonality with the Canaanites, nor with the Philistines who originated from the region around Crete.  The name "Palestine" doesn't even exist until after the Battle of Masada when the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed the region "Palaestina" a bastardization of the name "Philistine" who he knew had existed in the region before the Roman era, and his reason was to humiliate and anger the Jews he was enslaving.  

Thus the very notion that there was an ancient "Palestine" is laughable.


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## rylah (Aug 3, 2017)

Same as the residents of Abu Dis -_ "descendents from immigrant Arab tribes" _
and that's according to Abu Dis Local Council, 2011.

Not so difficult, if You look at the info presented by the Palestinian Arabs themselves.


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## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







I'm not a Jew, moron.  I'm agnostic.  But I read a ton of history because it interests me and it annoys me no end when ignorant twats, like you, try to revise history to suit your political goals.


----------



## fanger (Aug 3, 2017)

Tell the American Indians that the very notion that there was an ancient land before "USA" is laughable.


----------



## rylah (Aug 3, 2017)

Maybe someone can tell me what the Arabs themselves say about the residents of  Beit Iksa or Ash Sheikh...or al Judeira?


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

fanger said:


> Tell the American Indians that the very notion that there was an ancient land before "USA" is laughable.








The American Indian had no concept of "property", so maybe you should come up with a different, more appropriate analogy.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

*westwall*

You are still making grandiose claims, but have provided no evidence for any of them. Calling me a "twat" proves nothing but for your misogynistic attitude that goes hand in hand with your brazen racism. And beyond your math problems, what an odd screen name for an agnostic.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *westwall*
> 
> You are still making grandiose claims, but have provided no evidence for any of them. Calling me a "twat" proves nothing but for your misogynistic attitude that goes hand in hand with your brazen racism. And beyond your math problems, what an odd screen name for an agnostic.









Westwall is a contraction of my name and where I happen to live, so not strange at all.  For anyone.  You have a lot of 8's in your name which has many connotations with neo nazi idiots so I assume you are one of them thus your infantile POV.  Regardless, if you actually read books, you would know the history.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

Post your evidence, I have read more books than you would believe. And quit whining and trying to insult me. Neonazi now? You are sick. 8 is a lucky number in China and the 888 comes from a poker sponsor, moron.

Now post it, and not some crap about tax records from 600 AD that proves this 3000 year religious hogwash.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


So, the whole population, except for a few Jews, left the territory.

Who were those people?
Why did they leave?
Where did they go?
Then the Palestinians came.

Who were they?
Where did they come from?
Why would they go to a place where everybody left?
Your post doesn't make any sense.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


So then, why do you support a country that is based on killing, stealing, and lying?

Just curious.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Never claimed that.  However it is KNOWN that the Palestinians didn't arrive in the region until quite recently.  It is also known that there have been Jews living in the region for ALL of recorded history.  I think that trumps anything you can claim.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


You claimed that there was nobody there but the Jews when the Palestinians arrived.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> It is also known that there have been Jews living in the region for ALL of recorded history.


Please post your proof. You really do come off as retarded by the continuous spamming of this. Try posting your proof. Let's all finally see how clear this is.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Nope.  I didn't.  I merely stated, accurately, that Jews were the only group to have constantly been in the Holy Land.  I made no other claim.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > It is also known that there have been Jews living in the region for ALL of recorded history.
> ...







Read a book on the history of the Umayyad Caliphate.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 3, 2017)

_Here’s my simple checklist for colonizers and imperialists.
_

_Did you force your language on other peoples?_
_Did you force your religion on others?_
_Did you claim and subsume others sacred sites?_
_Do you deny indigenous people the right to self-determination on land that you conquered?_
_Did you conquer a large percentage of the known world?_
_Are you an asshat?_
_If you answered yes to more than one of these questions, chances are good that you are in fact a member of a colonialist imperialist people. The short version is did you take someone elses stuff and claim it as your own?

_
While I would LOVE to take credit for this simple and eloquent statement, these are the words of Ryan Bellerose, a Canadian First Nations advocate for indigenous peoples.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

Shusha said:


> _Here’s my simple checklist for colonizers and imperialists.
> _
> 
> _Did you force your language on other peoples?_
> ...


It is NOT your list, you copied it. And it again is off topic. IT IS WRONG TO STEAL PEOPLES HOMES and this is obvious even to young children.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > _Here’s my simple checklist for colonizers and imperialists.
> ...






He gave proper credit for the list.  And it is YOUR "people" who are violating at least three points on that list.  How do you support that sort of behavior?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

My people? The Palestinians? How have they done one damn thing on that list? This should be funny if nothing else.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> My people? The Palestinians? How have they done one damn thing on that list? This should be funny if nothing else.



Do you somehow believe that the Arabs-Moslems posing as "Pal'istanians " are not colonists / invaders? You don't understand that the kuffar understands the history of the area far better than you.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > _Here’s my simple checklist for colonizers and imperialists.
> ...




Uh.  Yeah.  I SAID I copied it. 

And.  Uh.  Yeah.  That is the whole POINT of Ryan's checklist.  Its WRONG TO STEAL PEOPLES HOMES AND LAND AND HOLY PLACES.  

When did you say that Muslims were returning the Temple Mount to the Jewish people?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

Shusha said:


> When did you say that Muslims were returning the Temple Mount to the Jewish people?


Dumbass, why would they ever part with what they own?


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> My people? The Palestinians? How have they done one damn thing on that list? This should be funny if nothing else.








I believe this is the most relevant one.


_Do you deny indigenous people the right to self-determination on land that you conquered?_


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > When did you say that Muslims were returning the Temple Mount to the Jewish people?
> ...


Because the King of Jordan told them to get out of the way of Arab tanks.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > My people? The Palestinians? How have they done one damn thing on that list? This should be funny if nothing else.
> ...


Palestinians do that? 

And didn't she say at least two, lol?

So far you are 0 for 1.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > When did you say that Muslims were returning the Temple Mount to the Jewish people?
> ...



So now you are saying that if you steal something you own it?  Make up your damn mind.  Remember when you said, not more than three minutes ago that it was wrong to steal someone's home?  Sorry, I mean, WRONG TO STEAL PEOPLES HOMES.  Sorry, you won't accept an answer unless I use the quote function.  So, 



louie888 said:


> It is NOT your list, you copied it. And it again is off topic. IT IS WRONG TO STEAL PEOPLES HOMES and this is obvious even to young children.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

Shusha said:


> So now you are saying that if you steal something you own it? Make up your damn mind. Remember when you said, not more than three minutes ago that it was wrong to steal someone's home? Sorry, I mean, WRONG TO STEAL PEOPLES HOMES. Sorry, you won't accept an answer unless I use the quote function. So,


The Palestinians stole nothing. You are an idiot and a liar. You support daily what you now are claiming is wrong. You appear simultaneously bipolar and hypocritical.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

I wonder why the Palestinians were the only Arab nation in the region that didn't have a standing army.
Sounds to me like a bunch of nomads.
In either case, they ran and didn't come back.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > So now you are saying that if you steal something you own it? Make up your damn mind. Remember when you said, not more than three minutes ago that it was wrong to steal someone's home? Sorry, I mean, WRONG TO STEAL PEOPLES HOMES. Sorry, you won't accept an answer unless I use the quote function. So,
> ...







They stole the land from the indigenous people who were made up of various Bedouin tribal members, and JEWS!  No Palestinians were there!  Try and catch up dude.  The history is well known!  Why do you not understand it?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

No Palestinians were there, yet they stole land. 

Bye again.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


B'caws hees toopid.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> No Palestinians were there, yet they stole land.
> 
> Bye again.








I will say it slooooooowly so that you can understand.......  There were people there for thousands and thousands of years......  JEWS were aaalllllllllllllwaaaaaaaaaayyyysssss there......  Other people came and weeeeeeent.....  Then Palestinians iiiinnnnvvvaaaaaadddeed.  They tried to kick everyooooooonnne   else out. 


There, was that slow enough for you?


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > No Palestinians were there, yet they stole land.
> ...


I don't think we are capable of comprehending how truly slow Loser is.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> The Palestinians stole nothing. You are an idiot and a liar. You support daily what you now are claiming is wrong. You appear simultaneously bipolar and hypocritical.



Be clear here.  

You AGREE that stealing someone's else's holy place would be wrong.  And you are hanging your entire argument on the fact that the Jewish people never had a claim to the Temple Mount because it was never a Jewish site.   Its a silly argument.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







Yeah, he is a special kind of stupid ain't he.  Jews have provably been in the region for 3,000 continuous years.  They have never left.  While other peoples have migrated through, and in some cases lingered ofor a century or two, the one constant group that has always been there has been the Jew.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > No Palestinians were there, yet they stole land.
> ...


It all makes sense now. The indigenous Palestinian people are the invaders and the converts to judaism who came from Europe are the indigenous people.

Awesome stuff.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

Shusha said:


> You AGREE that stealing someone's else's holy place would be wrong. And you are hanging your entire argument on the fact that the Jewish people never had a claim to the Temple Mount because it was never a Jewish site. Its a silly argument.


Never claimed that. Quote function... try it.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians stole nothing. You are an idiot and a liar. You support daily what you now are claiming is wrong. You appear simultaneously bipolar and hypocritical.
> ...








Not just silly, but provably moronic based on the fact that the FOUNDATION is a Jewish Temple.  Some people were born stupid.  Some have to work at it, but there are some like loser here, who are especially stupid.  They were born stupid and then they made it "better" through drugs, or falling off a building and landing on their head, or whatever mechanism they used to accomplish it.  Regardless, they are a very special form of stupid.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> They have never left.


Not even did most leave, those remaining by 300 AD or so converted to Christianity prior to the many who then converted to Islam. 

Do you have anything but lies?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> based on the fact that the FOUNDATION is a Jewish Temple.


Not a fact.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...










How is it that your "people" were able to build their Mosque over a Jewish Temple?  Riddle us that batman.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > based on the fact that the FOUNDATION is a Jewish Temple.
> ...





A WELL KNOWN fact silly boy.  Feel free to post a link to any scholarly paper that shows us otherwise.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> How is it that your "people" were able to build their Mosque over a Jewish Temple? Riddle us that batman.


It is a stupid question based on ignorance. 

It is a claim. It is a Jewish narrative. It is certainly not historical fact, nor is it a settled matter within the mainstream historical community.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Define indigenous.
And define a nation.
The fact that the Palestinians had no common infrastructure is very telling.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > How is it that your "people" were able to build their Mosque over a Jewish Temple? Riddle us that batman.
> ...


Give us non-Arab, non-Jewish Links.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > How is it that your "people" were able to build their Mosque over a Jewish Temple? Riddle us that batman.
> ...










Uhhhh, no, it ain't.  The ROMANS, you know who they were right?  They record building their Temple to Jupiter ATOP the Jewish temple built by Solomon.  Not Jews, not Israelis"  ROMANS!  I would trust the words of an ancient Roman over a moronic buffoon, such as you, any day of the week.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


You obviously never read what was actually written or how that bodes for your story.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


Written where?
FuckIsrael.org?


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...







Actually.  I have.  And if you would like to read it yourself It is well described in Tacitus's history's as well as being touched on by Marcellinus, and the Byzantine historian Eunapius also talks about it.  You are simply an ignorant twerp speaking out of your ass, boy.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Look, dumb one, here is just one mainstream piece on why your story is shit. Let me preface this with I don't think this answers all the questions, but it's a start. And we can actually quote your favorite Roman...

*“Josephus described it [the fortress] as being “erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height” on a “great precipice,” Sams quotes Josephus.  “It had “all kinds of rooms and other conveniences, such as courts, and places for bathing, and broad spaces for camps, such that it had all the conveniences of cities and seemed like it was composed of several cities.”   With 60-foot walls, four towers (the southeast being 105 feet high), and smooth stones covering the slope on its east side, it dominated the temple to its south, ready to fend off the most formidable attacks.”


Given this description, according to Sams, tucking Fortress Antonia north of the temple location in the Temple Mount area subscribed to by most scholars would have been impossible. *

*It simply wouldn't fit. *
*Wailing at the wrong wall?

Think.
*


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


I just attended a lecture that described how conquering nations would purposely build infrastructure above the conquered.
The 1st Temple is currently 19 layers below the Western Wall.
So much for your interpretation without the aid of an archaeologist.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> The 1st Temple is currently 19 layers below the Western Wall.


Not one shred of evidence to back that grandiose claim. I guess we will just believe you even though you lie daily.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > The 1st Temple is currently 19 layers below the Western Wall.
> ...


What is Beneath the Temple Mount?      |     History | Smithsonian
Ah, fuck you.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It is a stupid question based on ignorance.
> 
> It is a claim. It is a Jewish narrative. It is certainly not historical fact, nor is it a settled matter within the mainstream historical community.



FFS.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 3, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...




On the other hand, 

Not wailing at the wrong Western Wall of the Temple Mount | Ritmeyer Archaeological Design

A certain Ms. Sams, who has a degree in English, is picking up the old idea of Ernest Martin that the Temple Mount was not located where all scholars agree it is, but in the City of David. She has decided therefore that the Jewish people are praying at the wrong place. Dr. Jim Davila of PaleoJudaica has written an excellent post showing why Ms. Sam is wrong:

The article refers to some notions by Dr. Ernest L. Martin and “researcher and author” Marilyn Sams, neither of whom is (was, in the case of the late Dr. Martin) a trained specialist in the archaeology of ancient Israel. Dr. Martin’s PhD was in education from Ambassador College. Ms. Sams’s degrees are in English. Their notions about the Temples are not presented at scholarly conferences or debated in peer-review journals. They are not on the radar for specialist discussion of the archaeology of ancient Jerusalem.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 3, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


You said no jewish sources, but you don't even read what you post...
*
Barkay and his colleagues have published their main findings in two academic journals in Hebrew, and they plan to eventually publish a book-length account in English.*
Read more: What is Beneath the Temple Mount?      |     History | Smithsonian
Feeling stupid yet?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


You say that some number of Jews have lived there for thousands of years. OK, I don't think anyone will argue that fact. Whether that is true or not is irrelevant.

The part that I cannot accept is that nobody else has. That none of the Palestinians have any ancestors from back in the day. I have seen nothing to suggest that to be true. Surely you can point to some people who have come and gone. Sometimes even influencing culture and religion.

But then again, I haven't seen anything that would change that core group of people.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > My people? The Palestinians? How have they done one damn thing on that list? This should be funny if nothing else.
> ...


The Palestinians have always said the the Jews should have the same right to self determination as all of the other people living there.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







And I have never made the claim that no one else has.  I have made the claim that the Jews are the only people who have CONSTANTLY been there.


----------



## westwall (Aug 3, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...









The history of Israel throughout the late 1800's into the 1940's belies that claim.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Where is your proof?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 3, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


You have claimed that the Palestinians are recent arrivals. Then who are all those other people?


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Read a history of ANY empire who counted the Holy Land as its property, and ALWAYS the Jews are mentioned.  Every single time.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Various Arab and Bedouin tribes people.  Lydians, Persians, Egyptians, Byzantines, Normans, various European Christians, and Mamaluks, Mongols and the famous "Sea Peoples" from the time of Ramses I and II.  The Holy Land has been a crossroads of travel since before time was recorded.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


You keep pounding on the part that is not contested.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


We have a list like that in the US. We are still all Americans.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






Oh?  You keep asking for proof that the Jews never left so I have presented it to you.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


No, I was asking about the other people.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






That's because we STAYED.  They didn't.  You really should read some of the history's of the Holy Land.  It is truly amazing what went on there.  This revisionist silliness is simply hilarious when you have even the slightest knowledge of what happened before.  There are period Greek, Byzantine, Roman, and of course Egyptian history's that deal with the Holy Land.  I can't remember which Ramses it is, but around 1200 BCE he had a stele created that describes his conquering of Canaan and the people who lived there.  I think that is the earliest non biblical sourced mention of the Jews in the Holy Land.  He didn't like them much.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 4, 2017)

It was Merneptah.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> It was Merneptah.








Yeah, I know he did one as well, but I am pretty sure that Ramses did the first one.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It was Merneptah.
> ...


Apparently, you are now satisfied that your claims are in no way a settled matter.

Thanks for playing.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It was Merneptah.
> ...



Hmmmmm.  Not familiar with any of the Ramses doing that.  Certainly not earlier than Merneptah.  There's the Mesha stele, but that was later.  Let me know if you have a source.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...








The Merneptah stele is the so called Israel stele, but the Ramses stele was mainly talking about the battles against the Hittites IIRC and his "victory" at the battle of Kadesh.  I know for sure that that battle led to the first ever peace treaty, but it has been so long since I read those books that my memory is foggy.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...







What are you babbling about junior?


----------



## Shusha (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> The Merneptah stele is the so called Israel stele, but the Ramses stele was mainly talking about the battles against the Hittites IIRC and his "victory at the battle of Kadesh.  I know for sure that that battle led to the first ever peace treaty, but it has been so long since I read those books that my memory is foggy.



Yep.  Familiar with that.  Not sure anything relates to Israel though.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > The Merneptah stele is the so called Israel stele, but the Ramses stele was mainly talking about the battles against the Hittites IIRC and his "victory at the battle of Kadesh.  I know for sure that that battle led to the first ever peace treaty, but it has been so long since I read those books that my memory is foggy.
> ...







The Israel stele absolutely does, the Ramses stele (actually a poem who's name escapes me, and some prose called The Bulletin IIRC) is primarily dealing with the Kadesh campaign, and how he was lucky to not be killed thanks to the various Gods etc.  But I do remember the Jews in the region being named.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...





westwall said:


> That's because we STAYED. They didn't.


So the Jews were the only people there?

When was that?

Link?


----------



## montelatici (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Its wrong to steal land.  The people from whom it was stolen was the Jewish people.  How are you planning to restore the Jewish people to their stolen land?



The native people in the region that practiced Judaism (and Paganism and other religions) became Christian people by the 5th century after Christianity became the state religion of Rome.  Nothing  was stolen from them.  Those that practiced Judaism in the region became the first Christians, as everyone knows.  Whether the majority of the Christians converted from Christianity to Islam through force or convenience is up for conjecture.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> So the Jews were the only people there?



The Jewish people were the only people there.  Until they got colonized and invaded.  There were no Arabic speaking people there.  There were no Muslim people there.  There were no culturally Arab people there.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



The Palestinians have been in Palestine since Herodotus named it Palestine around 3,000 years ago.  That most of them converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ doesn't change the ancestry of the native people.


----------



## rylah (Aug 4, 2017)

Sure the place that connected Asia and Africa was sealed for any immigration, no foreign conqueror ever 'visited' there, no ethnic cleansing or population exchange.

Revisionism is so convenient. Yet the Palestinian Arabs tell their story differently.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > So the Jews were the only people there?
> ...



There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived.  They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.


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## Shusha (Aug 4, 2017)

montelatici said:


> There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived.  They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.



Funny how you never mention the events of colonization and invasion around that time.  They all just sort of magically and innocently converted to Christianity.  Funny how you never mention this as a violation of the sovereignty of the Jewish people over their own territory.  Funny how it just sort of happened and no wrong-doing took place.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

montelatici said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...








Wrong.  It was Hadrian that named it, and that 30+ years after Christ.  The year was 73 AD and Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews.  This is well known history dude.  Try and keep up.


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






No, they didn't.  Your fantasy's are amusing but not based in reality.


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## rylah (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > There were Canaanites, Philistines, Edomites, Samaritans, Greeks and others in the area, before, during and after the Jews arrived.  They all converted to Christianity in the centuries after the birth of Christ.
> ...



_"They all converted" - _just never happened. 
More like they *all revolted*.


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## rylah (Aug 4, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You want to see an '_ancient Canaanite' _look at the Druze community. And ironically they still identify with it.
The other _'Canaanites' _are the Jews and they too identify with that. 

The Bedouins that recently began identifying with the legendary _'*sea* people' _have a good sense of humor


----------



## montelatici (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



You do have such a grasp of history. LOL Just read Herodotus' Histories you idiot.

Herodotus


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## Hollie (Aug 4, 2017)

montelatici said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



No kidding? The Turk invaders / colonizers and the European Christian Crusaders / colonizers were "Pal'istanians"?

That's remarkable. Tell us more.


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## louie888 (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The Jewish people were the only people there. Until they got colonized and invaded. There were no Arabic speaking people there. There were no Muslim people there. There were no culturally Arab people there.


Please, tell us more. Don't post any evidence, but keep telling us things, lol.


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## louie888 (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews.


Please, tell us more. Don't post any evidence, but keep telling us things, lol.


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews.
> ...







It's in pretty much every history written about the Holy Land.  And you can read them online or go to the library.  It is sad that you only read propaganda from your chosen biased sources, but the Romans kept pretty good records of the areas they were conquering, and the Umayyads did the same.  I understand that actually learning about the real facts will hurt your head, but those facts are well known to the people who are educated even just a little bit about the subject.

Which leaves you out.


----------



## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

montelatici said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







I have.  He doesn't make the claims that you do.


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## louie888 (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Instead of running, just back up your statement.

*"Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews."
*
Is this just another case of jew hating for no reason?


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## Shusha (Aug 4, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > The Jewish people were the only people there. Until they got colonized and invaded. There were no Arabic speaking people there. There were no Muslim people there. There were no culturally Arab people there.
> ...



You want me to post evidence that there were no Muslims in the territory before the invention of Islam?  You want me to post evidence that there were no Arabic speaking people in the territory before they invaded?

I can post dozens of pieces of evidence: literature, historical documents, inscriptions, objects which prove the existence of the Jewish people in the territory. 

Why don't you post one piece of evidence of the existence of the Arab Muslims in the territory oh say around the time of the birth of JC.


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## Challenger (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> Wrong. It was Hadrian that named it, and that 30+ years after Christ. The year was 73 AD and Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews. This is well known history dude. Try and keep up



I think you'll find the Emperor Hadrian named the region Syria-Palaestina around 132CE, reviving the ancient name of the region "Palaestine" used for centuries earlier from Heroditus' time. This is well known history...


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## Challenger (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > It was Merneptah.
> ...



I think you are getting history confused with Hollywood, there ia absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any of the Pharoahs called Rameses had any dealings whatsoever with "Jews".


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## louie888 (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> You want me to post evidence that there were no Muslims in the territory before the invention of Islam? You want me to post evidence that there were no Arabic speaking people in the territory before they invaded?
> 
> I can post dozens of pieces of evidence: literature, historical documents, inscriptions, objects which prove the existence of the Jewish people in the territory.
> 
> Why don't you post one piece of evidence of the existence of the Arab Muslims in the territory oh say around the time of the birth of JC.


No, illiterate, I asked for proof of your statement...

*"The Jewish people were the only people there."
*
The rest of your idiocy must be based on you confusing me with idiot westwall who is the one that claimed that Muslims kept Jewish tax records for centuries prior to Islam.


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## Indeependent (Aug 4, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...


I never feel stupid because I never go out of my way to demonize a nation; that's your job.
And I didn't know the Smithsonian was a Jewish site.
Feel stupid yet?


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The Jewish people were the only people there.


That was the question.

Where is your link?


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## Shusha (Aug 4, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *"The Jewish people were the only people there." *


*
*
So we agree that the relevant people to this discussion, the Arab people, came later (invaded, conquered, colonized).  And we agree that the Jewish people already existed in the land prior to the arrival of the Arab people.  There were other invaders:  Greeks and Romans.  The Jewish people already existed in the land prior to those invaders as well.

So what other peoples are you going to say were there along with the Jewish people, prior to those invasions?  Canaanites?  Hebrew culture grew directly from Canaanite culture.  There is no distinction between the two.  Even if there were, no such peoples exist today.  Samaritans?  A part of the Jewish people.  

So what is the POINT of arguing this?


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

Challenger said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong. It was Hadrian that named it, and that 30+ years after Christ. The year was 73 AD and Hadrian renamed the province to humiliate the Jews. This is well known history dude. Try and keep up
> ...








Wrong as usual.  The first time the area was referred to as Palaestine is after Masada.  This is well known history.  It is also known that Hadrian was referring to the PHILISTINES, who originated from the Aegean area centered on Crete, a people called the "Pelesati", because he knew of tha ncient enmity between the Jews and them.  Thus they were the perfect tool to humiliate the Jews.  

This is history that has been KNOWN for millenia, unlike your fantasy nonsense that has existed for only 50 years or so, and promulgated by neo nazis and anti Israel propagandists.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


This whole argument is so stupid.

Susan Abulhawa says that she can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years.

Ali Abunimah says his family came to Palestine in 1492 when they were expelled from Spain.

The farm village of Najd had 300 people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It is said, but I don't know if anybody knows for sure, that the village was formed in the 7th century. Now, were these people immigrants or were they from elsewhere in Palestine looking for fertile fields? Who knows?

Now, how can anyone say that Palestine is *not* their homeland?


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







And she's lying.  That's the problem with anecdotal "evidence".  Especially "evidence" that is easily refuted by historical documents FROM THE ERA!

Palestinians lived in the southern Arabian Peninsula until they got pushed out.  This is well known.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


What if her family was not one of them? Are you saying that nobody lived in Nazareth back then?


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...








Not at all.  What I am saying is there were no palestinians in that region back then.  Any who were in the region were merely passing through as part of a trade caravan.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Passing through for 900 years?


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## Hollie (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Lying for the sake of religion? That's called _taqiyya_. You are free to be as gullible as you wish regarding unsubstantiated claims by Arabs-Islamists like Susan Albulhawa, just don't expect everyone else to be.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Somebody lived there back then. What evidence do you have that here family was not part of that?


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...








The fact that Palestinians came from the southern Arabian peninsula.  You have to understand, life was far different back then,  You stayed in your tribal areas or you got killed.  Water is life in the desert and it was fought for.  It was only with the advent of modern technology that travel became easy enough for people to really move about.  And that only happened in the last 150 years or so.  

Before that 99.9% of the worlds population lived and died within five miles of where they were born.


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...








You really need to read about what life was like back then.  You truly have no clue.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Are you assuming that all Palestinians have to be Arab Muslims?


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## westwall (Aug 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







Palestinians are Arabs.  They are not a distinct ethnic group.  They would be the equivalent of the Iroquois Indians here in the US trying to go live in the region inhabited by the Cheyenne.  Much blood would flow.  That's why it never happened.


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## peach174 (Aug 4, 2017)

louie888 said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Really? Do tell. How are they "different" Jews?
> ...



They did not convert to Judaism they brought Judaism to Europe.
Jews even in Europe refused Christianity.
Learn some actual history rather than that lie being spread.
I have no idea where you got that from but it is not true.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 4, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...





westwall said:


> Palestinians are Arabs.


Are they? Do they have to be? Why do you think there is always war just because people are different?


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## Shusha (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Why do you think there is always war just because people are different?



Difference doesn't cause war.  Intolerance does.  Competing values does.  Mutually exclusive goals do.


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## Lastamender (Aug 5, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It seems like every thread devolves into crap as israel's shills only wish for their narrative to be repeated ad nauseum. As this happens, how simple this topic is gets lost, hence these circular threads that become nothing more than israeli mouthpieces lying and then insulting anyone who dares to disagree, as those who support truth and peace are smeared as racists and terrorists,  because hasbara's first rule is to accuse their enemy of exactly what the israeli jews are guilty of.
> 
> View attachment 139994
> 
> ...


Israel is facing Islamists not Palestinians.It is written all Jews must die in the Koran. Wise up idiot.


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## BulletProof (Aug 5, 2017)

peach174 said:


> They did not convert to Judaism they brought Judaism to Europe.
> Jews even in Europe refused Christianity.
> Learn some actual history rather than that lie being spread.
> I have no idea where you got that from but it is not true.



How do you know they didn't convert?  Where's that "actual history" of them not converting?  You just make up sh1t and lie.  

Before you ask where's the history of them converting, it's you who claimed actual history shows they didn't convert.  You have no knowledge that they didn't convert.  And, only your ignorance of Talmudism makes you think it even matters.  They might as well all converted, because it makes no difference.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you think there is always war just because people are different?
> ...


Indeed, and the Palestinians led a relatively peaceful life for centuries despite their differences.

The Zionists came and destroyed all that.


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## Shusha (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, and the Palestinians led a relatively peaceful life for centuries despite their differences.
> 
> The Zionists came and destroyed all that.



The Arab Palestinians got along fine with the Jewish people as long as the Jewish people didn't have equal rights.  Still the case.  Look at the Temple Mount as an example.  As long as the Jewish people accept their lack of rights, the Arabs get along fine with them.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, and the Palestinians led a relatively peaceful life for centuries despite their differences.
> ...


Were the Palestinian Muslims, Christians, and Jews all "Arabs?"


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## westwall (Aug 5, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > They did not convert to Judaism they brought Judaism to Europe.
> ...







Where's your source for your claim they did?  When you accuse someone of lying best be looking in the mirror, cupcake.


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## westwall (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






Depends on the time frame you're talking about.  After about the year 700 the majority were indeed Arab.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

westwall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Majority? OK, but what about the rest of them?

And why should they be separated out as a separate category of people?


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## peach174 (Aug 5, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > They did not convert to Judaism they brought Judaism to Europe.
> ...



I stated historical fact.
That would also include archeological facts about it.

And you have no idea how much I know or don't know about the Talmud. We have never had a conversation about it before have we? I don't  think so. If so tell me where we did if you think we did.
Which Talmud are you talking about?
The Babylonian one or the Jerusalem one?


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## Eloy (Aug 5, 2017)

westwall said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...


"Most Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of European women who converted to Judaism, possibly around the time of the early Roman empire, concludes a new genetic study that casts doubt on many prevailing theories about the origins of Ashkenazim."
Study traces Ashkenazi roots to European women who probably converted to Judaism


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

Eloy said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > BulletProof said:
> ...



How typical, team Palestine is fixated on blood purity studies, and manipulation of them.

The real headline of Your study:
"A substantial _prehistoric _European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages"
We're talking about a period of roughly between 3.3 million years ago until 5,300 years ago.

But then again we have:

*Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture
*
*Jews cluster mostly with the Druze and Lebanese Christians while Palestinian Arabs with Saudis, Jordanians and Bedouins* :


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## westwall (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...







They have to lie.  History, and genetics prove their assertions are false.  But damn it, they want to get rid of those pesky Jews!


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## westwall (Aug 5, 2017)

Eloy said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > BulletProof said:
> ...







Provably false.  But thanks for playing.


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Najd?? You mean the one on Saudi Arabia or Gaza...why would there be a Najd in Gaza?

Abulhawa's argument is silly. Of course Arab occupiers had longstanding presence.
It's like saying that Jerusalem  (Yates County) is centuries old, and because Americans have longstanding presence there - they can deny Indians their rights.

There were more than 20 languages spoken in Palestine, it's not a reason to deny the Hebrew language and people their rightful place.


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

westwall said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Eloy said:
> ...



Ironically I use the same studies they use. They just don't read beyond the headlines...and then they don't even post the original headlines.

These people are 'religious' about it - denying Jews their rights.


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

Can anyone tell me what the Palestinian Arabs say about the origin of the inhabitants in Qusin, Yasid or Burqa?

Maybe the Moroccan quarter of Jerusalem?


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## montelatici (Aug 5, 2017)

westwall said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Don't let facts get in the way of your conditioning. LOL


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## westwall (Aug 5, 2017)

montelatici said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Eloy said:
> ...







YOU certainly don't.  I am a student of history.  You're a propaganda student.  The two are diametrically opposed.  I deal with facts.  You deal with lies.  It's as simple as that.


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## westwall (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...







I know.  It is a common problem with people who think they are smart.  The abstract is to grab attention, so they are usually grandiose.  But the devil, as they say, is in the details.


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## peach174 (Aug 5, 2017)

montelatici said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Eloy said:
> ...




If it's fact it would not have said probably.
Probably means still a theory.
So yes it can be proven one way or the other.


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## Eloy (Aug 5, 2017)

peach174 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


You have only to look at modern Israelis to see that they are not Semites.


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## montelatici (Aug 5, 2017)

westwall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Now that's funny.  You post Zionist propaganda exclusively.  Long ago debunked, by the way.  I only present fact, and you know it.  I know it is inconvenient for you. LOL


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## Shusha (Aug 5, 2017)

Eloy said:


> You have only to look at modern Israelis to see that they are not Semites.



You DO know that judging people by their appearance is racism, right?


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

Eloy said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Why because all Semitic people should look like Bedouins?
I could show You pictures of Arabian royalty and You'd say they look western-European.

*Why does team Palestine always resort to Eugenics?*


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## Shusha (Aug 5, 2017)

Same reason they falsify history -- to keep Jews out of the circle of peoples who have rights.


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## montelatici (Aug 5, 2017)

*"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European*

*Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European*


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## montelatici (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...



Cognitive dissonance.


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## louie888 (Aug 5, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Same reason they falsify history -- to keep Jews out of the circle of peoples who have rights.


You sniveling, abhorrent liar. You have some nerve, after the debacle you created for yourself on the thread concerning israel sending all the blacks back to Africa, to call anyone a racist.

And look at all the time you idiots spend derailing this thread because you can't handle how obvious this issue actually is.

You have no more right to claim a crib that you slept in as a baby, then to claim land that supposedly belonged to your coreligionists 3000 years ago. Dumb, dumb, dumb!

Remember the OP?


----------



## Shusha (Aug 5, 2017)

Oh, I remember.  Still waiting for you to respond to some of my posts about the OP.  Like this one:

_Here’s my simple checklist for colonizers and imperialists._


_Did you force your language on other peoples?_
_Did you force your religion on others?_
_Did you claim and subsume others sacred sites?_
_Do you deny indigenous people the right to self-determination on land that you conquered?_
_Did you conquer a large percentage of the known world?_
_Are you an asshat?_
_If you answered yes to more than one of these questions, chances are good that you are in fact a member of a colonialist imperialist people. The short version is did you take someone elses stuff and claim it as your own?
_

While I would LOVE to take credit for this simple and eloquent statement, these are the words of Ryan Bellerose, a Canadian First Nations advocate for indigenous peoples.


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## Shusha (Aug 5, 2017)

Also this one:


_How can I tell a real Jew from a synthetic one?_


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

montelatici said:


> *"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European*
> 
> *Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European*



Well if You were at the least hones, You'd post the actual headline of the study. But You are dishonest and manipulative.
This is what a newer study says in reference:

 This is in agreement with previous observations from other *Early Neolithic populations [27], [46], and underlines the importance of genetic drift processes at the beginning of the Neolithic* [16]. Nevertheless, the multi-population comparative analyses performed here also suggest that certain population isolates of Middle Eastern origin,* like the Druze*, could have retained an ancient Neolithic genetic legacy through cultural isolation and endogamous practices [47]. *Another interesting case are the Ashkenazi Jews, who display a frequency of haplogroup K similar to the PPNB sample together with low non-significant pairwise Fst values, which taken together suggests an ancient Near Eastern origin. This observation clearly contradicts the results of a recent study, where a detailed phylogeographical analysis of mtDNA lineages has suggested a predominantly European origin for the Ashkenazi communities [48]*. According to that work the majority of the Ashkenazi mtDNA lineages can be assigned to three major founders within haplogroup K (31% of their total lineages): K1a1b1a, K1a9 and K2a2. The absence of characteristic mutations within the control region in the PPNB K-haplotypes allow discarding them as members of either sub-clades K1a1b1a or K2a2, both representing a 79% of total Ashkenazi K lineages. However, without a high-resolution typing of the mtDNA coding region it cannot be excluded that the PPNB K lineages belong to the third sub-cluster K1a9 (20% of Askhenazi K lineages). Moreover, in the light of the evidence presented here of a loss of lineages in the Near East since Neolithic times, the absence of Ashkenazi mtDNA founder clades in the Near East should not be taken as a definitive argument for its absence in the past. The genotyping of the complete mtDNA in ancient Near Eastern populations would be required to fully answer this question and it will undoubtedly add resolution to the patterns detected in modern populations in this and other studies.

*Ancient DNA Analysis of 8000 B.C. Near Eastern Farmers Supports an Early Neolithic Pioneer Maritime Colonization of Mainland Europe through Cyprus and the Aegean Islands

*


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## BulletProof (Aug 5, 2017)

Eloy said:


> You have only to look at modern Israelis to see that they are not Semites.



You have only to look at an Arab to see what a Semite looks like.


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## BulletProof (Aug 5, 2017)

Shusha said:


> _How can I tell a real Jew from a synthetic one?_



A real Jew carries a cross and a Bible.  A synthetic Jew carries an hexagram and a Talmud.


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## Shusha (Aug 5, 2017)

Ah.  You are THAT kind of antisemite.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> Najd?? You mean the one on Saudi Arabia or Gaza...why would there be a Najd in Gaza?


Najd - نجد -Gaza - Palestine Remembered


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> > You have only to look at modern Israelis to see that they are not Semites.
> ...


Indeed.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

This whole argument is so stupid.

Susan Abulhawa says that she can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years.

Ali Abunimah says his family came to Palestine in 1492 when they were expelled from Spain.

The farm village of Najd had 300 people at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It is said, but I don't know if anybody knows for sure, that the village was formed in the 7th century. Now, were these people immigrants or were they from elsewhere in Palestine looking for fertile fields? Who knows?

*Now, how can anyone say that Palestine is not their homeland?*

Y'all have been ducking this question.


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> This whole argument is so stupid.



You people are not serious, once Eugenics don't work You go claiming that everyone in the ME should look like a Bedouin. 

Let's take the *Hashemite royalty *and judge them by the same standards team Palestine judges Jews.:

Let's take Queen Dina bint Abdul-Hamid





She looks like a Georgian singer Tamara Gverdtsiteli





Or Queen *Alia Baha ud-din Toukan



*

Or Queen *Lisa Najeeb Halaby* 






Who among them fits the Hollywood template of how ME should look?


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## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> *Now, how can anyone say that Palestine is not their homeland?*
> 
> .


_
Homeland_ in the context of this conversation (denying Jews their rights) has many meanings.
And I'm sure many Americans can claim Milwaukee as their homeland, but we know who we're talking about.

Syria-Palestine is not the homeland of the Bedouins and Arabian royalty, they're occupiers.
But that is not to say that they don't have rights.
 The problem begins when they deny people like Jews,Yazidis, Kurds and other indigenous people their rights.


----------



## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > *Now, how can anyone say that Palestine is not their homeland?*
> ...



Sur Bahir & Umm Tuba, Abu Dis, Beit Iksa, Ash Sheikh, al- Judeira, Burqa, Tammun - what is the homeland of the inhabitants, according to the Palestinian Arabs themselves?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > *Now, how can anyone say that Palestine is not their homeland?*
> ...


You missed the point of my question.


----------



## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



That's what You always say when You don't get the wanted answer. Don't run away.

Is Milwaukee the homeland of the Irish and Polish Americans as it is to Menominee?
Was St. Petersburg built by the Indigenous Americans?

I'm sure many of the Americans in the US can trace their presence back centuries - doesn't make them natives or indigenous.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


You're deflecting.


----------



## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I'm sure many Americans can trace their family presence back centuries- doesn't magically make them _native_ or_ indigenous_.


----------



## BulletProof (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> I'm sure many Americans can trace their family presence back centuries- doesn't magically make them _native_ or_ indigenous_.



You need only trace your family back to where you were born to know where you're a native.  I know that doesn't work for libtards who judge people by the color of their skin.


----------



## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure many Americans can trace their family presence back centuries- doesn't magically make them _native_ or_ indigenous_.
> ...



The ones obsessed with blood purity and looks are team Palestine.
And yet not every American is called a 'Native American'.


----------



## rylah (Aug 5, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



It's really simple, only after these people agree that Judea is the homeland of the Jews, and that Jews have rights too, can we speak about their longstanding presence as a prerequisite for self determination.
Meanwhile such manipulative narratives are used only to deny Jews their rights in Judea.

First recognize Jewish rights, then we can talk about homeland for the Arabs in Judea or Gaza..


----------



## BulletProof (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> The ones obsessed with blood purity and looks are team Palestine.
> And yet not every American is called a 'Native American'.



Zionist say the dumbest, such as claiming it's the Palestinians who are obsessed with blood purity.  

Also, to correct you, anyone who isn't a foreigner is a native.  I can always count on you to say dumb things.


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

BulletProof said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > The ones obsessed with blood purity and looks are team Palestine.
> ...



Really do You find Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton...or maybe George Washington when You google 'Native American'?

Exactly the same reason why the tribes of Abbas or al-Thani are not indigenous in Levant.


----------



## computerliker (Aug 6, 2017)

The Palestinian-Israeli question is one of the important reasons for the problems in the Middle East.

Muslims, Jews and Christians who are not afraid of gods when they believe in God.

If muslims were afraid of god, don't terrorist attacks on Jews who were not related to the politics of the Israeli state.

If jews were afraid of god, they would not be able to support terrorist and persecute so many people.

If christians were afraid of god, they were trying to make peace between Jews and Muslims.

If people from other ideologies were afraid of death, (communist,racist,atheist/deist, other religions,ideology) human rights would not torture people who are not like him under the name of fraternity.

As long as people who have lost their minds and conscience are not seriously reduced, there will be no peace on the west , the middle east, and the east.


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## Challenger (Aug 6, 2017)

westwall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Even the Jewish Virtual Library disagrees with you. 

*In 135 C.E.,* Hadrian’s army besieged Bethar and on the 9th of Av, the Jewish fast day commemorating the destruction of the first and second Holy Temples, the walls of Bethar fell. After a fierce battle, every Jew in Bethar was killed. Six days passed before the Romans allowed the Jews to bury their dead.

Following the battle of Bethar, there were a few small skirmishes in the Judean Desert Caves, but the war was essentially over and Judean independence was lost. The Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen. Jews were sold into slavery and many were transported to Egypt. Judean settlements were not rebuilt. Jerusalem was turned into a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina and the Jews were forbidden to live there. They were permitted to enter only on the 9th of Av to mourn their losses in the revolt. Hadrian changed the country’s name from Judea to Syria Palestina.
The Bar-Kokhba Revolt 132-135 CE)

But hey, what's a bit of historical fact when you've got the whole Zionist fantasy narrative to reguritate.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 6, 2017)

westwall said:


> And she's lying...



Fine, prove it, otherwise your post is just an unsubstantiated assertion, or "hot air" as it's more popularly known.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 6, 2017)

westwall said:


> Palestinians lived in the southern Arabian Peninsula until they got pushed out. This is well known.



Do tell...enlighten us with corroborating evidence.


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## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

Challenger said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians lived in the southern Arabian Peninsula until they got pushed out. This is well known.
> ...



Do You really need evidence that Arab tribes trace their roots to Arabia, Hejaz, Yemen?
Who inhabits Sur Bahir & Umm Tuba, Abu Dis, Beit Iksa, Ash....Tammun?


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


And besides that, what difference does it make?


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



You want to deny Jews their rights, while call the land a "_Homeland_ " of Arab tribes.
Pan Arabism at it's best. And again Jews, Yazidis and the Kurds disagree.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> You want to deny Jews their rights,


I never said that.


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > You want to deny Jews their rights,
> ...



Do Jews have a right to self-determination and self-defense in their homeland?

You'll begin to dance in 3..2..1... or maybe for the 1st time take the opportunity and get over with this key issue.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Sure, but they do not have an exclusive right.


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## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


They do if people are trying to kill them.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> This whole argument is so stupid.
> 
> Susan Abulhawa says that she can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years.
> 
> Ali Abunimah says his family came to Palestine in 1492 when they were expelled from Spain.


Now, that's awkward.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> This whole argument is so stupid.
> 
> Susan Abulhawa says that she can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years.
> 
> ...


They don't say!


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Do Palestinian Arabs in Jordan know their rights ARE exclusive and have been since the beginning?
Then why do Palestinian Arabs keep demanding Judenrhein Palestine today?

How are You recognizing Jewish rights when all Your solutions are based on the elimination of their national home?


----------



## montelatici (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



Palestine is the homeland of the native people who were living there before the European colonists arrived.  Not the homeland of colonists (and their descendants) from elsewhere.  Starting from that fact, maybe there can be a way to compromise.  Starting from a claim that God gave the land to European colonists is a non-starter.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Let us know when you become an atheist.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 6, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



That's odd. You are claiming that the native people in the "country of Pal'istan" you have invented were invading / colonizing Turks, European Christian Crusaders and absentee landlords in Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. 

Let's have you identify when the European Christian Crusaders magically become the "native people".


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Are you saying that the the Jews have the right to violate the rights of the Palestinians?


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


They left for Jordan.
They got to Jordan.
Jordan locked them in to where they are.
Your inability to absorb facts is your problem.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


The reason people left is irrelevant to the right to return.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Incorrect.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Link?


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


1948 war, dick brain.
The know...the one of several wars you have revised versions of.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


No link?

You are just shoveling Israeli shit.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


I will repeat my instructions from earlier this week...
Look up the 1948 war...No Arab or Jewish sites allowed.
You must either be an idiot, a liar or have dementia because you are always in Wash, Rinse, Repeat mode.
I have it down to idiot or liar.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


The Palestinians were not a part of the 1948 war.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


They ran to enemy territory.
Geesh, Mr. Dementia, we went over this bullshit just a few days ago.
Do you ever get embarrassed by your repetitive bullshit?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Of course they did. There were six armies fighting inside Palestine.

And one of those armies was attacking Palestinian civilians.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


And you can Link to a non-Arab site indicating which of those armies was attacking Palestinian civilians?
Of course you can't which is why you haven't provided a Link.
I'm way more intelligent than you, but you're not intelligent enough to realize that fact.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> I'm way more intelligent than you,


 Now *THAT* is funny. 

And you prove it by asking a stupid question.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > I'm way more intelligent than you,
> ...


I prove it when you can never provide a Link not from a non-Arab site.
And then you try to add a new angle to the situation which I easily derail.


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Using the same logic Susan Abulahawa who's family was evicted from Spain is a European colonialist.
But then again Judea is not the homeland of Arab Muslims they're with the Greeks and Romans occupiers and colonizers.

You see how easy it works both ways. It's just that anything that Arab Muslims built upon in Palestine has 'Jews' written on it all over.

You Americans are sometimes real hypocrites, tell me are you the famous _'Native Americans'_? 
Neither are Arabian tribes in Levant.


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



*Not at all, in almost every such conversation I agree that Arabs have rights in that land.*

Those rights come from their longstanding presence, as Arabs all over the ME.
But there's a reason why in the US not every American is called a 'Native American'.
And that's exactly the reason why You as an American who supports Arab colonialism, insist on missing that point.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Aug 6, 2017)

louie888 said:


> It seems like every thread devolves into crap as israel's shills only wish for their narrative to be repeated ad nauseum. As this happens, how simple this topic is gets lost, hence these circular threads that become nothing more than israeli mouthpieces lying and then insulting anyone who dares to disagree, as those who support truth and peace are smeared as racists and terrorists,  because hasbara's first rule is to accuse their enemy of exactly what the israeli jews are guilty of.
> 
> View attachment 139994
> 
> ...




So what you are saying is "Allahu Akbar," ISIS boi?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> Not at all, in almost every such conversation I agree that Arabs have rights in that land.


Cool, then you favor the right to return.


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Not at all, in almost every such conversation I agree that Arabs have rights in that land.
> ...



In a sane settled agreement why not? Certain Arab tribes have developed long lasting understandings with both the Israeli gov and the residents of Judea Samaria.
This could've been solved in quiet, but the way that the Arabs put it publicly, as a tool to overthrow Israel makes the issue a refuge of a much bigger politically driven agreement.

But You prefer the PLO/Hamas version. So be it, but it'll be the end of any potential agreement..


----------



## rylah (Aug 6, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



Then again we should really invest some attention into the Arab notion that Judea should be Judenrhein.
Still in the context of_ 'right of return'_


----------



## rylah (Aug 7, 2017)

rylah said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Remind an American about_ natives_ and about the meaning of _homeland_ and........ crickets......
I guess they're all gone to protest for Indian _right of return_.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



I'd like some corrobotating evidence that Palestinians (who according to Zionists, don't exist) were "pushed out" of the southern Arabian Peninsula, as it's apparently, "well known" to Westwall.  

By nice try attempting to muddy the waters.


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Tell me who are the inhabitants of those towns and villages? According to Palestinian Arabs themselves.

Any of the towns I've listed along the couple last pages.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Jubbet adh Dhib Village Profile

*Location and Physical Characteristics*
Jubbet adh Dhib is a Palestinian village in Bethlehem Governorate located at 6.5km (horizontal distance) south-east of Bethlehem City. Jubbet adh Dhib is bordered by Za’tara village to the east, Bit Ta’mir to the north, Beit Ta’mir and Al Furdeis villages to the west, and several Israeli settlements to the south (See map 1).

*Families*
The inhabitants of Jubbet adh Dhib are predominantly from one main family; Al Wahsh.

*History*
The word Jubb means well, thus the name of the village Jubbet adh Dhib means the well of the wolf. The locality of Jubbet adh Dhib was established in 1929. Before that time, some nomadic Arab Bedouin were living in the territory. _The origin of Jubbet adh Dhib residents goes back to the Arabian Peninsula (Cayman) and the tribe of Bani Harb._

http://vprofile.arij.org/bethlehem/pdfs/VP/Jubbet_Adh_Dhib_vp_en.pdf


----------



## Challenger (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



What's that got to do with Westwall's comment?


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


You got your Link 1,000 times already.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

Challenger...
Got no response?
Click a smiley.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> Jubbet adh Dhib Village Profile
> 
> *Location and Physical Characteristics*
> Jubbet adh Dhib is a Palestinian village in Bethlehem Governorate located at 6.5km (horizontal distance) south-east of Bethlehem City. Jubbet adh Dhib is bordered by Za’tara village to the east, Bit Ta’mir to the north, Beit Ta’mir and Al Furdeis villages to the west, and several Israeli settlements to the south (See map 1).
> ...



OK, so are you arguing that because 33 people, allegedly from the Bani Harb tribe of Saudi Arabia, settled in this location in 1929, then all Palestinians did the same?


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Jubbet adh Dhib Village Profile
> ...



Not 33 people. The same goes for all towns and villages I've mentioned.
Palestinian Arabs don't hide their Yemeni, Arabian or even Bosnian origins.


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

*Sur Bahir & Umm Tuba Town Profile

History* 

An ancient story claims that Omar Ben al Khattab held a secret meeting in the area with his army leaders before he entered Jerusalem*,* and the town was therefore originally named ‘As Sir al Bahir’ (‘the impressive secret’), which later became Sur Bahir (Sur Bahir Mayor, 2012). 

The town was established over 1000 years ago, and its original residents were from the Arabian Peninsula and Yemen (Sur Bahir Mayor, 2012)

http://vprofile.arij.org/jerusalem/pdfs/vprofile/surbaherumtuba.pdf


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Beit Imrin Village Profile
*
Location and physical characteristics*
Beit Imrin is a Palestinian village in the Nablus Governorate located 9.06km north of Nablus city. It is bordered by Yasid and ‘Asira ash Shamaliya to the east, Jaba' to the north, Burqa to the west, Nisf Jubeil and ‘Asira ash Shamaliya to the south. (ARIJ-GIS, 2014) (See Map 1).

*History *
Beit Imrin village’s was named after Imrin, an honorable man who lived in the village’s hill. The word ‘Imrin’ is believed to be converted from the Syriac word ‘Imrin’ which means “Alsheikh” or prince. Over time the village’s name was converted into Beit Imrin, meaning “House of Princes” (Beit Imrin Village Council, 2013). 
*The village was established during the Canaanite era. However the ancestors of its residents originally came from Iraq, Yemen, Jordan, and Egypt (Beit Imrin Village Council, 2013).*

http://vprofile.arij.org/nablus/pdfs/vprofile/Beit Imrin_vp_en.pdf


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Salim Village Profile 

*Location and physical characteristics*
Salim is a Palestinian village in Nablus Governorate, located 6.63 km East of Nablus City. It is bordered by Beit Dajan to the East, Deir al Hatab to the North and West, Beit Dajan and Beit Furik to the South (ARIJ-GIS, 2014) (see map 1).

*History*
The name of Salim village derives from the Syriac word (Salme) which means “idol”. It is said that idols existed in the village and were worshiped as part of the Canaanites customs at that time. During the Roman Period it was called “Sanim” and “Salim” (Al-Dabbagh, 1991) *The village was established more than 600 years ago with its residents originating from Yemen and Saudi Arabia. (Salim Village Council, 2013).*

http://vprofile.arij.org/nablus/pdfs/vprofile/Salim_vp_en.pdf


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Where's Montelatici to tell us how all these Arabs from Yemen and al-Hejaz were the original Jews that converted to Christianity


----------



## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> Where's Montelatici to tell us how all these Arabs from Yemen and al-Hejaz were the original Jews that converted to Christianity



Making things up again?  Everyone knows that the Palestinians are, for the most part, the descendants of the ancient people of Palestine that converted to Christianity in the centuries following the birth of Christ.  Conversion of the Jews, Samaritans, Pagans etc. accelerated after Christianity became the state religion of Rome.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Where's Montelatici to tell us how all these Arabs from Yemen and al-Hejaz were the original Jews that converted to Christianity
> ...


Because...everybody knows.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



I should have qualified it, serious historians know.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 8, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Typical duck.


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Farkha Village Profile 

*Location and Physical Characteristics*
Farkha is a Palestinian village in Salfit Governorate located 3.2 km west of Salfit City. It is bordered by Salfit city to the east and north, Qarawat Bani Zaid and Bani Zaid ash Sharqiya (in Ramallah Governorate) to the south, and Bruqin village to the west (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).

*History*
Farkha village was named after leading Arab scientist „Abdul Rahman bin Abdullah al Farkhawi‟, while “Al Farkh” literally means a chick or spear blade of wide teeth. The village was established 250 years ago (Farkha Village Council, 2012). Its *residents however are descended from the Hijazi tribes *(Ad Dabbagh, 1991).

http://vprofile.arij.org/salfit/pdfs/vprofile/Farkha_vp_en.pdf


----------



## louie888 (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> Farkha Village Profile
> 
> *Location and Physical Characteristics*
> Farkha is a Palestinian village in Salfit Governorate located 3.2 km west of Salfit City. It is bordered by Salfit city to the east and north, Qarawat Bani Zaid and Bani Zaid ash Sharqiya (in Ramallah Governorate) to the south, and Bruqin village to the west (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).
> ...


----------



## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

"For we who were Occidentals have now become Orientals. He who was a Roman or a Frank has in this land been made into a Galilean or a Palestinian...."

Fulcher of Chartres 11th Century.

The Crusaders arrived and found Palestinians, and they were Eastern Christians.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> "For we who were Occidentals have now become Orientals. He who was a Roman or a Frank has in this land been made into a Galilean or a Palestinian...."
> 
> Fulcher of Chartres 11th Century.
> 
> The Crusaders arrived and found Palestinians, and they were Eastern Christians.


Now, that is AWKWARD.


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> "For we who were Occidentals have now become Orientals. He who was a Roman or a Frank has in this land been made into a Galilean or a Palestinian...."
> 
> Fulcher of Chartres 11th Century.
> 
> The Crusaders arrived and found Palestinians, and they were Eastern Christians.



Read the quote once again. 
Are You claiming now that Palestinian Arabs are Romans and Franks? 


Wow thank You.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> "For we who were Occidentals have now become Orientals. He who was a Roman or a Frank has in this land been made into a Galilean or a Palestinian...."
> 
> Fulcher of Chartres 11th Century.
> 
> The Crusaders arrived and found Palestinians, and they were Eastern Christians.


And I'm sure Charlie was telling the truth as he was slaughtering anyone who disagreed with his Catholicsm.
Now THAT'S awkward.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


1948 war, Mr, Duck, duck, goose.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

No, I am claiming that the Latin rulers became like the indigenous Christians in language, customs etc.  Exactly what Fulcher stated.

"This piece of writing, multi-valent, elusive, in some respects contentious, conveys something of the complexities of Frankish identity in the East, the social and economic imperatives underlying immigration, as well as the aspirations of a particularly thoughtful and articulate member of the ‘new’ Frankish community in the East. It also, I think, serves as a warning to historians attempting the task I have been set for today: to offer an overview of the encounter *between Franks and the indigenous peoples *of the eastern Mediterranean in the context of the Crusades."

Thanks for leaving me the opening.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> No, I am claiming that the Latin rulers became like the indigenous Christians in language, customs etc.  Exactly what Fulcher stated.
> 
> "This piece of writing, multi-valent, elusive, in some respects contentious, conveys something of the complexities of Frankish identity in the East, the social and economic imperatives underlying immigration, as well as the aspirations of a particularly thoughtful and articulate member of the ‘new’ Frankish community in the East. It also, I think, serves as a warning to historians attempting the task I have been set for today: to offer an overview of the encounter *between Franks and the indigenous peoples *of the eastern Mediterranean in the context of the Crusades."
> 
> Thanks for leaving me the opening.


It's a subjective paragraph intended to cover the misdeeds of a traveling mass murderer.


----------



## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> No, I am claiming that the Latin rulers became like the indigenous Christians in language, customs etc.  Exactly what Fulcher stated.
> 
> "This piece of writing, multi-valent, elusive, in some respects contentious, conveys something of the complexities of Frankish identity in the East, the social and economic imperatives underlying immigration, as well as the aspirations of a particularly thoughtful and articulate member of the ‘new’ Frankish community in the East. It also, I think, serves as a warning to historians attempting the task I have been set for today: to offer an overview of the encounter *between Franks and the indigenous peoples *of the eastern Mediterranean in the context of the Crusades."
> 
> Thanks for leaving me the opening.



Great,

tell us how Palestinians are Frank...brilliant. Go on. 
Don't forget to turn the Crusaders into Canaanites too.


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > No, I am claiming that the Latin rulers became like the indigenous Christians in language, customs etc.  Exactly what Fulcher stated.
> ...



Just a statement of fact.


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > No, I am claiming that the Latin rulers became like the indigenous Christians in language, customs etc.  Exactly what Fulcher stated.
> ...



I think you mean how the Latins adopted Palestinian customs in Palestine during the reign of the Latin Kingdom.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



So Palestinians are Latin Crusaders?
Fascinating fact. Enlighten us more.

What happened to _'all Palestinian Arabs are Canaanites' _nonesense?


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



No, alas the Latins were evicted by Saladin and only the indigenous Eastern rite Christians, the indigenous Palestinians were allowed to remain.  But you knew that.

Another own goal by Rylah.

Keep it up.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Yes Montelatic went that far - now the "indigenous" Palestinians are Greeks, Romans and Crusaders.
Wow,Montelatici You're on a roll today.

So far You've erased Samaritans, Jews and jumped 4 centuries in Your revisionism.
What's next US citizens and the English language are 'indigenous' to America?


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Sarta Village Profile 

*Location and Physical Characteristics *
Sarta is a Palestinian village in the Salfit Governorate located 8.8 km west of Salfit City. Sarta is bordered by Haris village to the east, Bruqin town to the south, Biddya town to the west, and Qarawat Bani Hassan town to the north (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).

*History*
The village was established in 1396 A.D. Its residents however are originally *from the Hijaziya homes, descendants of Abdullah ben Omar ben al Khattab*, as the villages´ family tree meets with Qatanna villages´ (in Jerusalem Governorate) family tree (Sarta Village Council, 2012).

http://vprofile.arij.org/salfit/pdfs/vprofile/Sarta_vp_en.pdf


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Qarawat Bani Hassan Town Profile

Location and Physical Characteristics
Qarawat Bani Hassan is a Palestinian town in Salfit Governorate located 8.9 km north-west of Salfit City. Qarawat Bani Hassan is bordered by Deir Istiya and Haris villages to the east, Sarta to the south, Biddya town to the west, and Deir Istiya to the north (ARIJ-GIS, 2013) (See Map 1).

History
Qarawat Bani Hassan town was named in relation to a righteous man called Abu Muhammad Abdul Hamid ben Madd al Qarawani al Hassani descended from the Al Husniya tribes which were responsible for controlling and protecting the trade roads; from Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem until „Azzun village in the northern West Bank. The word “Qarawat” is derived from the word “Qura” which means generosity or good hospitality. *The town was established in 1600 AD with its residents deriving from Al Husniya tribes whom are descendants of the Arabian Peninsula (Qarawat Bani Hassan Municipality, 2012).*

http://vprofile.arij.org/salfit/pdfs/vprofile/Qarawat.pdf


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



No, the indigenous people are the Palestinian Christians (who had converted to Christianity centuries before), as the links confirm.  Same as today, only most of their ancestors converted to Islam.  Try to keep up.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
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> > montelatici said:
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Meanwhile all You've "_confirmed"_ was that Plaestinians are  Crusaders.
Keep up with this _'wisdom'._


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## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


I know...it's on YouTube and Christian explorers never had the habit of massacring the locals...ever.


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## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


The caterers must have made a fortune with all those conversions.


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



Not at all. The Crusaders were evicted from Palestine by Saladin, so it would be impossible for them to be ancestors to the Palestinians.  Thankfully, you've agreed that the Palestinians are the indigenous people.  You are learning.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

Sinjil Town Profile

Location and Physical Characteristics 
Sinjil is a Palestinian town in the Ramallah Governorate located 15.5 km north-east of Ramallah City. Sinjil is bordered by Turmus‟ayya town to the east, and Al Lubban ash Sharqiya village territories to the north, ‟Abwein and Jilijliya villages to the west, and Al Mazra‟a ash Sharqiya to the south (ARIJ-GIS, 2012) (See Map 1). 

History
Sinjil took its name from the French commander Raymond de Saint-Gilles, Count of Toulouse. The town was established 1105. *Sinjil residents are descended from the Murra Tribe which emigrated from the Arabian Peninsula to Palestine* (Sinjil Municipal Council, 2010).

http://vprofile.arij.org/ramallah/pdfs/vprofile/sinjil_tp_en.pdf


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



Oh be quiet Indepeepee, you are blathering.


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## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > montelatici said:
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Because Christian crusaders were so civilized.


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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> ...



They were reclaiming the Christian Holy Land from a very strong military machine.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Arabian colonizers and Beduines are as 'indigenous' to Palestine as US citizens to Milwaukee.
Romans, Greeks and the Ottoman in the same category - OCCUPIERS.


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## Indeependent (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Christian Holy Land!
Now I know you're a joke.
Even the NT knows Israel is holy to the Jews.
But I also know you have your own personal version of the NT.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

*Qarawat Bani Zeid Village Profile *

Location and Physical Characteristics
 Qarawat Bani Zeid is a Palestinian village in the Ramallah Governorate located 18.1km northwest of Ramallah City. Qarawat Bani Zeid is bordered by Bani Zeid ash Sharqiya village to the east and by its lands to the south, Farkha and Bruqin village lands in Salfit Governorate to the north, and Kafr ‘Ein to the west (ARIJ GIS, 2012) (See Map 1).

History
Qarawat Bani Zeid village was named after the tribe of Bani Zeid. The establishment of the village dates back to more than 500 years ago, and its *residents are originally from Egypt and Yemen* (Qarawat Bani Zeid Village Council, 2011) (See photo below for Qarawat Bani Zeid village).

http://vprofile.arij.org/ramallah/pdfs/vprofile/Qarawat Bani Zeid_Vp_En.pdf


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

Still posting the propaganda eh.  500 years ago, when the village was purportedly established, the Malamik Ottoman War was underway. I doubt anyone was moving into the area. You should do some historical research before posting nonsense.


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

By the way, channeling Daniel Pipes, the Hasbara propagandist extraordinaire, does not do much for your credibility.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

I get it even when Palestinians themselves contradict Your revisionist narrative -_ it's propaganda_. Even a Palestinian institute or a PLO advisor.

If Youre that desperate:
*Send Your complaints to the Qarawat Bani Zeid Village Council, *tell them that Your version  of Arab Bedouins being the legendary _'sea people' - _is  the correct one .


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

Palestinians claim to be Arabians.  Much like Romanians claim to be Romans.  It's common for the ruled to claim they are closely related to the rulers. But you knew that, you aren't that much of a dummy, are you.  Grow up and quit posting Pipe's propaganda.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Palestinians claim to be Arabians.  Much like Romanians claim to be Romans.  It's common for the ruled to claim they are closely related to the rulers. But you knew that, you aren't that much of a dummy, are you.  Grow up and quit posting Pipe's propaganda.



No, I'm sure Palestinian Arabs are Romans, Franks and Greeks as You clonfirmed.

All I've posted comes from a Palestinian institute based in Bethlehem and Tuba.
You just can't handle how Your nonsense is so easily refuted with Palestinian sources.

The Applied Research Institute Jerusalem - الصفحة الرئيسية


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians claim to be Arabians.  Much like Romanians claim to be Romans.  It's common for the ruled to claim they are closely related to the rulers. But you knew that, you aren't that much of a dummy, are you.  Grow up and quit posting Pipe's propaganda.
> ...



I never use Palestinian sources.  I use neutral historical sources or Jewish sources.  That's what I do.  You, on the other hand, use Zionist propaganda exclusively.  That's why everything you post is easily debunked.

Let me remind you of the facts, before Zionist propaganda took over.

*30 July 1921*

*AN INTERIM REPORT*
*ON THE*
*CIVIL ADMINISTRATION*
*OF*

*PALESTINE,*

*during the period*
*1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.*


*AN INTERIM REPORT*
*ON THE*
*CIVIL ADMINISTRATION*
*OF*
*PALESTINE.*

*I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.*

"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. *In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions..."

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


You gotta love how any Palestinian institution magically turns into 'Israeli propaganda' when they contradict Montelatici's nonesense.
*
What is the percentage of the Native Americans in the US today?*


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

All I know is that they were 100% of the population of the Americas before the Europeans arrived. The Palestinians seem to be much more resilient.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> All I know is that they were 100% of the population of the Americas before the Europeans arrived. The Palestinians seem to be much more resilient.





Sure keep ducking simple questions. You Americans are sometimes such hypocrites.
And still Arabs are as indigenous to Palestine, as the average US citizen is indigenous or to Milwaukee.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > All I know is that they were 100% of the population of the Americas before the Europeans arrived. The Palestinians seem to be much more resilient.
> ...


Unfortunately for the Indians, they did not have the protection under international law that the Palestinians have today.


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



You mean Montelatici's facts.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



What an irony. 
How conveniet for the Arab occupiers to recieve protection from the Roman, Greek and British occupiers.


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## louie888 (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Extremely awkward, but historical truth is to these people.


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## montelatici (Aug 8, 2017)

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



What Arabian occupiers?  The occupiers are European colonists and their desendants.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

louie888 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



There's nothing awkward about cleansing of Jews, and them as a result becoming a minority in their homeland.The same happened with the Indigenous American population.


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## rylah (Aug 8, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The Arabian occupiers are the  Arabian tribes from Yemen, Hejaz and Saudi Arabia that occupy Jewish lands. The same people who demand another Judenrhein Arab state.


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## montelatici (Aug 9, 2017)

rylah said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



There was no cleansing most Jews converted to Christianity.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 9, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians claim to be Arabians.  Much like Romanians claim to be Romans.  It's common for the ruled to claim they are closely related to the rulers. But you knew that, you aren't that much of a dummy, are you.  Grow up and quit posting Pipe's propaganda.
> ...


And besides that, what difference does it make?


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## Hollie (Aug 9, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


What international laws protect Arab-Moslem terrorists?


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 9, 2017)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...


Is that supposed to be a serious question?

Fail.


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## rylah (Aug 9, 2017)

montelatici said:


> There was no cleansing most Jews converted to Christianity.



Let's play Your game -
 "_there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"
_
No Jew had to convert to Christianity, simply because original Christianity was a small Jewish sect.
What they were force to convert to was Roman culture.


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## louie888 (Aug 9, 2017)

rylah said:


> "_there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"_


Typical lie from you people.


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## Hollie (Aug 9, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



It is a serious question. One you can't address. 

Typical. 

BTW, I don't want you to feel the need to cut and paste dozens of your silly YouTube videos.


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## Hollie (Aug 9, 2017)

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > "_there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"_
> ...



Typical tactic of retreat you people are so quick make.


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## louie888 (Aug 9, 2017)

*"*_*there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"*
_
Back that up, effin moron. You people are dumber than plants.


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## Hollie (Aug 9, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *"*_*there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"*
> _
> Back that up, effin moron. You people are dumber than plants.



That's actually true. 

Similarly, the Islamist Middle East hasn't been largely purged of people practicing competing religions. They all converted Arab-Moslem.


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## rylah (Aug 9, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Tribalism in the Palestinian Arab society helps You understand who has the power on the ground, in the localities.And it clarifies how do Palestinian Arabs identify themselves.

Whole towns inhabited by Arab tribes from Yemen or Saudi Arabia give certain clues.
But apparently Jews living in Judea is No No.


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## louie888 (Aug 9, 2017)

rylah said:


> But apparently Jews living in Judea is No No.


For the 6 millionth time, it is not about Jews not living there, it is about the psychotic mass murderers not living there. NOBODY WANTS TO LIVE BY PSYCHOTIC MASS MURDERERS.


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## rylah (Aug 9, 2017)

louie888 said:


> *"*_*there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"*
> _
> Back that up, effin moron. You people are dumber than plants.



That's exactly what I hear when people say that Jews were not cleansed in their homeland.


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## louie888 (Aug 9, 2017)

rylah said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > *"*_*there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"*
> ...


Both you and holly are idiots. You said it. She agreed. You have both disqualified yourselves from any future comments on ethnic cleansing, effin moron.


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## rylah (Aug 9, 2017)

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



So were Jews cleansed from their homeland?
And meanwhile also tell how did Native Americans call the land, '_America'?_


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## montelatici (Aug 10, 2017)

rylah said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



No, the descendants of the ancient Jews became Christians through conversion or intermarriage, then most converted to Islam.  They were never cleansed from Palestine.  Who do you think the original Christians were.


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## Hollie (Aug 10, 2017)

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



It is funny when you issue a fatwa expecting anyone to take you seriously.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > louie888 said:
> ...



Before Christianity was hijacked by Rome, it was just a Jewish sect.
The original Christians were messianic Jews, or Christian Jews.
They together with other Jews and Samaritans were massacared by the empire.


Tell us whom did the Romans ban from Jerusalem?


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## montelatici (Aug 10, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



All non-Christians that refused to convert.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



In 131 Hadrian renamed Jerusalem, built a temple to Jupiter on the site of the Jewish Temple and banned all Jews from the city.

And forced conversion is not ethnic cleansing??


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Palestinian sources contradict Your daily propaganda.
Sheds a light on the identity of the Arabian tribes that demand Palestine free of Jews.


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## Indeependent (Aug 10, 2017)

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > "_there was no ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, they all simply converted to British"_
> ...


Are you retarded or a scumbag?
It's explicit sarcasm.
You're hoping noone references the original post you're quoting.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



The irony 
Poor thing can't understand this is exactly his argument about the Jews, and how he just shot himself in the leg.

A good comedian, althrough doesn't intent to.


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## Challenger (Aug 10, 2017)

So much BS...so little time to correct. like all Hasbarists, you cherry pick facts to twist to your agenda.



rylah said:


> So were Jews cleansed from their homeland?



No, native Judeans were never "cleansed", the only people slaughtered or sold into slavery were those religious fanatics (the ISIS of their day) who made war against Rome. Judeans who lived outside Judea/Syria Palestina in the Roman Empire, and those Judeans who were not involved in the war were left alone to live their lives as before.  



rylah said:


> Tell us whom did the Romans ban from Jerusalem?



Those same religious fanatics mentioned above. Normal Judeans/Palestinians could come and go as they pleased.



rylah said:


> And forced conversion is not ethnic cleansing??



No. A religious group is not necessarily an ethnic one. Charlemagne's forced conversion of the Saxons to Christianity, did not "ethnically cleanse" Saxony. 



rylah said:


> Palestinian sources contradict Your daily propaganda.
> Sheds a light on the identity of the Arabian tribes that demand Palestine free of Jews.



Well yes and no, I've skimmed through several village files in the site you mention and wheras some of the population allegedly came from outside Palestine, there's usually no indication of when this occured nor in what numbers. If Semitic people like Yemenites, for example, moved into the area 1-2000 years ago, they would still be more native to the area than Jewish European colonists who arrived 1-200 years ago and Jewish people native to areas of the middle east that arrived in the 1950's onwards.

Unfortunately Zionists have created the strength of ill-will against Jewish people amongst many Palestinians today. Zionism's main premise is to create a "Jews-only" state by expusion and oppression so it's no surprise Zionists are universally detested by Muslims and many Christians and sadly this detestation spills over on to Jewish people in general.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

Challenger said:


> So much BS...so little time to correct. like all Hasbarists, you cherry pick facts to twist to your agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Too much say so coming from a Sand fan to take seriously.

Really Jews were not banned from Jerusalem? 
Jews and Samaritans weren't massacared during all of the revolts?
Jews weren't forcefully converted?
Their homeland and capital weren't invaded, destroyed and renamed? 
Jews didn't become a minority?

I'm sure Your revisionist sources sprinkle all over that.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

Everyhing You claim Israelis do to Palestinian Arabs that is considered_ 'ethnic cleansing'_, 
Jews suffered at the hand of the Romans and more.

The only thing different is that the ethnic cleansing of Jews - didn't multiply their numbers as is the case with the Arabs.


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## montelatici (Aug 10, 2017)

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > So much BS...so little time to correct. like all Hasbarists, you cherry pick facts to twist to your agenda.
> ...



All non-Christians were banned from residing in Aelia Capitolina.  
Trouble-making fanatics were killed.  
Jews were not forcibly converted.  
The Hebrews invaded the area in the first place and the area had been ruled by the Selucids anyway, except for the short Hasmonean period before Herod the Great (an Edomite Arab) took over.  There you go the frigging King of Judea was an Arab. LOL
Jews converted to Christianity, so of course they became Christians. No longer Jews,


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



You didn't contradict any of what I said. Just repeat the same nonesense.

And Yet the original Christians were Christian JEWS, before Rome hijacked the sect.
Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome, and a pagan temple was built on top of the Temple Mount.
Roman ethnic cleansing of Jews and Samaritans continued for centuries.

Do You have the original text of Hadrian's ban?


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## montelatici (Aug 10, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



You are becoming confused.  Hadrian banned Christians and their rituals.  Get your history straight.  Hadrian was emperor centuries before the Romans adopted Christianity as the state religion.


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## teddyearp (Aug 10, 2017)

We need to stop pretending that Louie has anything useful to post.


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## louie888 (Aug 10, 2017)

teddyearp said:


> We need to stop pretending that Louie has anything useful to post.


This relates to the OP how?

It is no more right to claim a crib as your own because you slept there as a baby as it is to claim land that you claim your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandparents lived on, let alone from a completely different continent.

This really is an easy one and it is remarkable that some 50 pages in, you people are still coming on here pretending that you just cannot see such simple truth.


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## Hollie (Aug 10, 2017)

louie888 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > We need to stop pretending that Louie has anything useful to post.
> ...



Your "simple twoofs" are a confused and muddled attempt at critical thinking.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Wow what a desperate liar.

So no ethnic cleansing of Jews from Jerusalem?

_"In 324 Emperor Constantine (later known as "the Great") controls the entire Roman empire. The commemorative churches and basilicas he and his mother, Empress Helena, create in Aelia transform the city into a vivid representation of the life of Christ.

The most impressive building is the Anastasis, marking the place where the resurrection of Christ is believed to have taken place. Jerusalem is once again a 'holy city', a magnet *to pilgrims from around the Christian world.*

*With the exception of the reign of Julian (361-363) and the brief interlude of Persian rule (614-17), Jews were banned from entering the city until the advent of Islam, when they were readmitted."*_
vhttp://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/p/period3-2.htm

Anything that You define as 'ethnic cleansing', that You claim Israelis do to Arabs, Jews experienced (and more) at the hands of the Romans and other occupiers.
Today not much has changed - they still try to ban Jews from Judea, and from their most important heritage sites.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

Challenger said:


> If *Semitic people *like Yemenites, for example, moved into the area 1-2000 years ago, they would still be more native to the area than *Jewish European colonists* who arrived 1-200 years ago and Jewish people native to areas of the middle east that arrived in the 1950's onwards.
> .



Apparently You have an issue with RACE. Your word choice and omission reveal it all. 
Thank You for clarifying where all that wisdom comes from.

It's a nazi tactic reversed - 70 years ago Jews were Semites, and that was enough. Today they're "Europeans", and that's apparently enough for the Arabs and their friends in the West today.

Same obsession,same language, same target.


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## rylah (Aug 10, 2017)

Challenger said:


> moved into the area 1-2000 years ago, they would still be more native to the area.



Arabian tribes, along with Egyptians, Sudanese and Bosnians were colonizing Syria-Palestine, at the same time Brits and others were colonizing America.

They're as much 'native' as the average US citizen native to Milwaukee.
And again I'm not claiming they don't have rights, they just come from a different category.
On the other hand, dare a Jew build a house in Judea, and he's the worst of beasts of the earth.
Hypocrisy.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 14, 2017)

rylah said:


> Really Jews were not banned from Jerusalem?



Normal Judeans were not banned from anywhere in their native province. The only people the ban was imposed upon were the religious fanatics who followed the Jerusalem Temple cult and rebelled against Rome



rylah said:


> Jews and Samaritans weren't massacared during all of the revolts?



Romans were less than kind to rebels throughout their history, just ask Spartacus...



rylah said:


> Jews weren't forcefully converted?



There are plenty of incidents of "forced conversion" in Christian history not so many in Muslim history though, Muslims preferred to get the tax revenue from non-Muslims, if they converted, the tax revenue would go down.



rylah said:


> Their homeland and capital weren't invaded, destroyed and renamed?



You keep confusing Judeans with followers of the monotheistic temple cult of Jerusalem. The Judean "homeland" was a province of the Roman Empire and was never destroyed, although it was renamed after a religious revolt; the people started calling themselves "Palestinians" according to you, IIRC. Over time they converted to Christianity and later to Islam.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 14, 2017)

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > If *Semitic people *like Yemenites, for example, moved into the area 1-2000 years ago, they would still be more native to the area than *Jewish European colonists* who arrived 1-200 years ago and Jewish people native to areas of the middle east that arrived in the 1950's onwards.
> ...



Erm, no. The only people obsessed with RACE are Zionists who are desperate to have people consider the Jewish religious group a seperate "race" in themselves. The Zionist movement is inherently anti-semitic, however one choses to define the term.


----------



## rylah (Aug 14, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Really Jews were not banned from Jerusalem?
> ...



Wow what a desperate liar.

So no ethnic cleansing of Jews from Jerusalem?

_"In 324 Emperor Constantine (later known as "the Great") controls the entire Roman empire. The commemorative churches and basilicas he and his mother, Empress Helena, create in Aelia transform the city into a vivid representation of the life of Christ.

The most impressive building is the Anastasis, marking the place where the resurrection of Christ is believed to have taken place. Jerusalem is once again a 'holy city', a magnet *to pilgrims from around the Christian world.*

*With the exception of the reign of Julian (361-363) and the brief interlude of Persian rule (614-17), Jews were banned from entering the city until the advent of Islam, when they were readmitted."*_
vhttp://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/p/period3-2.htm

Anything that You define as 'ethnic cleansing', that You claim Israelis do to Arabs, Jews experienced (and more) at the hands of the Romans and other occupiers.
Today not much has changed - they still try to ban Jews from Judea, and from their most important heritage sites.


----------



## rylah (Aug 14, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


*
The same Zionists who brought Jews from Ethiopia and India are racists?*
No I think those who are obsessed with the RACE, BLOOD PURITY and SKIN COLOUR of Jews are racists.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 16, 2017)

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



You cannot "ethnically cleanse" a religious group. 

The word "Jews" in the above context meant those followers of the then defunct Temple cult and possibly the more "modern" (3rd-4Th century CE) "rabbinical version" of the same cult. The ban never applied to ethnic Judeans/Palestinians, or anyone else, who were Pagan or Christian.

Contemporary "Jews" are, in the main, the descendants of converts and are European without any ties to the area other than tenuous religious ones.


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## Challenger (Aug 16, 2017)

rylah said:


> The same Zionists who brought Jews from Ethiopia and India are racists?



Yes.



rylah said:


> No I think those who are obsessed with the RACE, BLOOD PURITY and SKIN COLOUR of Jews are racists.



The only ones so obsessed are Zionists. See post #514


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## rylah (Aug 16, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



But You can ethically cleanse a tribe from the land that bears its' name, and has a distinct culture specifically tied to that land. 
'Jew' in Hebrew simply means- 'of the tribe of Judah'. And there's only one word for it in Hebrew.

I don't know what You get by discussing what "version" of their indigenous culture  or religion was banned from the land -it's still ethnic cleansing.
Discussing their race or blood purity, or mixing with other people still smells like racism.


----------



## rylah (Aug 16, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > The same Zionists who brought Jews from Ethiopia and India are racists?
> ...



Disagree.


Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



I disagree.

Look if Kurds or Yazidis now realized they need a state in their indigenous land, to protect themselves. And they decided to organize and gather their diaspora in that land, and even fight for it - I would be all for their rights.

I certainly would NOT discuss what the color of their skin or race is.
Jews were not desperate to be a separate race, there were certain tribes that were not welcomed, that's all. What Jews cared about was heritage, culture and survival.

What part of Jews wishing to live in Judea don't You understand?


----------



## Challenger (Aug 17, 2017)

rylah said:


> But You can ethically cleanse a tribe from the land that bears its' name, and has a distinct culture specifically tied to that land.



Like Palestine and Palestinians? "Jews" are not a "tribe", in the ethnic sense of the word, they are followers of a religion although they do, nowadays exhibit tribal behavious, much like street gangs.



rylah said:


> Jew' in Hebrew simply means- 'of the tribe of Judah'. And there's only one word for it in Hebrew.



In modern Zionist Israeli "hebrew" perhaps. In antiquity the word didn't exist, "Yehudi"/"Ioudaos", etc.more accutately translate as "Judahhite" or "Judean". Peoples of antiquity never defined others by their religion or religious beliefs, until the dominence of Christianity in late antiquity/early medieval eras.



rylah said:


> I don't know what You get by discussing what "version" of their indigenous culture or religion was banned from the land -it's still ethnic cleansing.



You cannot ethically cleanse a religious group. Judeans/Palestinians changed their religions over centuries; there was never a uniform religion in the region except during a brief interlude under the Hashmoneans, the ISIS of their day.



rylah said:


> Discussing their race or blood purity, or mixing with other people still smells like racism.



You are the one constantly harping on about race and blood purity, standard Zionist ideology.



rylah said:


> Disagree.



You can imagine my surprise.



rylah said:


> What part of Jews wishing to live in Judea don't You understand?



No-one had (or even has now) any objection to Jewish people living in Palestine or even having a desire to live there. The objections arise when Zionists demand an exclusively Jewish state and dispossess and oppress the indigenous people there in order to achieve that state. 

Let's assume, purely for the sake of argument, that I accept your premise that "Jews" are a "people" once "ethnically cleansed" from their "ancient homeland". Even if this were true, this does not give them the right to ethnically cleans others. There is nothing in statutory or customary International law that allows or has ever allowed this. Even the now defunct "right of conquest" meant you could rule the conquered population as your new subjects, not expell them en masse from their homes. In the modern context ethnic cleansing is a crime against Humanity, Zionists may have cashed in on the universal symathy generated by the Jewish Holocaust, but that currency has been spent long ago. People are no longer prepared to overlook Zionist israeli crimes against Humanity and that's why amongst the common people of the world Zionist Israel is ranked alongside pariah states like North Korea and Iran.


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## Challenger (Aug 17, 2017)

rylah said:


> Look if Kurds or Yazidis now realized they need a state in their indigenous land, to protect themselves. And they decided to organize and gather their diaspora in that land, and even fight for it - I would be all for their rights.



Kurds are an ethnic group indigenous to the area and are entitled to their independence from Turkey, Iran and Iraq if that's what they want. I happen to support Kurdish independence, but that's a topic for another forum. Jewish people are a religious group so don't qualify; neither do the Yazidis, or the Mormons or the Amish.   



rylah said:


> ...What Jews cared about was heritage, culture and survival...



Jewish people had centuries of opportunity to go and settle in Palestine, yet even under the ottomans when there were no restrictions on Jewish travel anywhere within the empire, Jewish immigrants chose to settle in Greece, Istanbul or northern Anatolia, in fact anywhere but Palestine. Jewish "yearning" to return is a Zionist myth, and that's a fact.


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## P F Tinmore (Aug 17, 2017)

This is not a difficult issue. It is really straightforward.


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## Shusha (Aug 17, 2017)

Challenger said:


> Kurds are an ethnic group indigenous to the area and are entitled to their independence from Turkey, Iran and Iraq if that's what they want. I happen to support Kurdish independence, but that's a topic for another forum. Jewish people are a religious group so don't qualify; neither do the Yazidis, or the Mormons or the Amish.



The objectivity of your distinction between the Kurdish people being an ethnic group while the Jewish people are not an ethnic group is suspect.  By what criteria are the Kurdish people an ethnic group?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 17, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Kurds are an ethnic group indigenous to the area and are entitled to their independence from Turkey, Iran and Iraq if that's what they want. I happen to support Kurdish independence, but that's a topic for another forum. Jewish people are a religious group so don't qualify; neither do the Yazidis, or the Mormons or the Amish.
> ...


LOL. Strike 1. The topic is about not being able to destroy a crib and steal a room because you slept there as a baby.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR NONSTOP RACIST BULLSHIT.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 17, 2017)

Challenger is attempting to exclude a group from "qualifying" as an ethnic group specifically to deny them human rights, and *I'm* the racist?!

Unbelievable.


----------



## flacaltenn (Aug 17, 2017)

*This discussion is WAAAY beyond the scope of what the OP lays out..  Although the OP is mostly baiting,, it's clear the question is simple. 

Is it OK to "take Israel" because GOD says so..  A simple concept that even a child can understand. Talk to that child. Anything else is off-topic. Can't moderate it fairly.  

If it gets off again -- it will be closed.  Get back to the ORIGINAL scope of topic. All the good discussion going on should be in a different thread. 
*


----------



## Shusha (Aug 17, 2017)

The OP cartoon, imo, does not necessarily imply the "G-d said so" trope.  The underlying theme of ancestral claim is a valid interpretation of the contents of the OP.  The question posed in the cartoon is whether or not a replaced people have a continued claim to the land which was taken from them.  The implication is that those who "used to live there" no longer have claims to the land.  (Which is unfortunate for the Palestinians who currently reside elsewhere).


----------



## Shusha (Aug 17, 2017)

Also, reducing the complex issues involved in this conflict to something a "child can understand" is problematic.  It necessitates simplifying the issues down to a statement which can easily be understood by children, thus creating a leading question such as the one implied in the OP:  is it okay to take property which is now claimed by others.

The answer may seem obvious, but its not.  Because it leaves out a very important part of the equation -- how was the property transferred in the first place?  If it was stolen from the original owners, the children might have a very different answer.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 17, 2017)

And, "G-d said so" is NOT the driving force of the Zionist movement and never has been.  Zionism is much more firmly planted on the hill of indigeneity and restoration of lands to peoples invaded, conquered, removed, cleansed, etc.

(though there most certainly are those who believe in the religious concepts as well)


----------



## louie888 (Aug 17, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The answer may seem obvious, but its not.


It is. Note "stop pretending" in the title.



Shusha said:


> And, "G-d said so" is NOT the driving force of the Zionist movement and never has been.


Total load of shit. We hear it here daily.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 17, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Look if Kurds or Yazidis now realized they need a state in their indigenous land, to protect themselves. And they decided to organize and gather their diaspora in that land, and even fight for it - I would be all for their rights.
> ...



"Jewish people had centuries of opportunity to go and settle in Palestine, yet even under the ottomans when there were no restrictions on Jewish travel anywhere within the empire, Jewish immigrants chose to settle in Greece, Istanbul or northern Anatolia, in fact anywhere but Palestine. Jewish "yearning" to return is a Zionist myth, and that's a fact."

Even Monty knows more history than you on this matter.
No empire would allow more than a certain quota of Jews into Israel for hundreds of years.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 17, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > And, "G-d said so" is NOT the driving force of the Zionist movement and never has been.
> ...



Here being USMB?  No you don't.  I can think of only one poster who tends to use this argument, and rarely at that.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 17, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > The answer may seem obvious, but its not.
> ...


You always insist in Links from those who disagree with you.
You provide Links to those posts that back up what you just claimed.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> If it was stolen from the original owners...



You mean the Canaanites, got it. 

So because Habiru tribes stole the land from the original owners, the Canaanites, it's OK for a  European religious group to steal the land from native people who have lived  there for hundreds, if not thousands of years. 

That's Zionist mentality for you.


----------



## Challenger (Aug 18, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> You always insist in Links from those who disagree with you.
> You provide Links to those posts that back up what you just claimed.



You first. I've yet to see you provide *any* supporting evidence to anything you post.



Indeependent said:


> ...No empire would allow more than a certain quota of Jews into Israel for hundreds of years.



Care to provide a link supporting your assertion that there were any restrictions on Jewish migration within the various Arab, Egyptian and Turkish Empires between the 7th Century and the 19th Century CE?


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



The Ottomans restricted travel to Palestine for Jews only when the Zionists began harping on about taking over the place from the native people, in the 1880s:










Ottoman Policy and Restrictions on Jewish Settlement in Palestine: 1881-1908: Part I on JSTOR


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Challenger said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > You always insist in Links from those who disagree with you.
> ...



To wit:





Ottoman Policy and Restrictions on Jewish Settlement in Palestine: 1881-1908: Part I on JSTOR


----------



## Challenger (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Thanks for helping "Groucho" out, I'm well aware of the Ottoman restrictions from 1881 onwards, but as your are doubtless aware that wasn't my question. Given the above, that still left 1,200 odd years where there were no restrictions in place and yet there was no mass migration of all these "Jewish people" allegedly "yearning" to return to their "homeland".


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Challenger said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



That was the point of posting the excerpts.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

Challenger said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > If it was stolen from the original owners...
> ...



The Caananites and the Hebrews (Jewish people) are the same peoples.  There is no cultural differentiation between them.  Their language and material culture was the same and they inhabited the same territory.  

The Hebrew peoples and the Jewish peoples are also the same peoples.  Their culture developed over time in the territory they originally inhabited and was spread to other localities when their ancestral territory was invaded, conquered and cleansed.  They retained their culture through thousands of years in the diaspora.  

Now, you can argue that people have no right to return to an ancestral territory once they have been removed from it, but arguing that the Jewish people were never THERE is silly.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The Caananites and the Hebrews (Jewish people) are the same peoples. There is no cultural differentiation between them.


Liar.

*What was the religion of the Canaanites?


Like other people of the Ancient Near East Canaanite religious beliefs were polytheistic, with families typically focusing on Veneration of the dead in the form of household gods and goddesses, the Elohim, while acknowledging the existence of other deities such as Baal and El, Asherah and Astarte.

--google*

Back on topic!

You cannot tear down a crib and claim a room you lived in as a baby any more than you can tear down someone's house and claim the land that you believe your ancient ancestors lived on.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > The Caananites and the Hebrews (Jewish people) are the same peoples. There is no cultural differentiation between them.
> ...


*
*
Hmmmmmm.  _Elohim_.  Where have I heard that name before?  It seems somewhat familiar.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


You are impossible.

*polytheistic ≠ monotheistic... period!
*
Back on topic!

You cannot tear down a crib and claim a room you lived in as a baby any more than you can tear down someone's house and claim the land that you believe your ancient ancestors lived on.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

louie888 said:


> You are impossible.
> 
> *polytheistic ≠ monotheistic... period!  *


*
*
Sure.  The monotheistic religion grew out of the same culture which was previously polytheistic.  As you have demonstrated quite accurately and succinctly.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > You are impossible.
> ...


Back on topic!

You cannot tear down a crib and claim a room you lived in as a baby any more than you can tear down someone's house and claim the land that you believe your ancient ancestors lived on.

True or false?


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

On the other thread you are arguing that its just fine to steal someone's house.  In fact, you argue that ownership is legally transferred when you steal someone's house.  

So you tell me, it is okay to steal someone's house. true or false?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> So you tell me, it is okay to steal someone's house. true or false?


Everyone on earth besides zionist fake jews know the answer. Sorry, but you'll just have to remain in the dark.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


So, who said there was no Palestine during the Ottoman era?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


OK, so is there any proof that the Zionist settlers had ancestors from the holy land?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, so is there any proof that the Zionist settlers had ancestors from the holy land?


NO! Absolutely not! Period.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



The moronic Zionists who don't know history. The Ottomans, of course called Palestine, Arzi Filistin, in Turkish.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, so is there any proof that the Zionist settlers had ancestors from the holy land?



You've GOT to be kidding me.  They share the same culture.  The same religion, customs, holidays, life event celebrations, a system of laws, language, foods, myths, stories, writings, etc, etc, etc.  They are the same people.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> You've GOT to be kidding me. They share the same culture. The same religion, customs, holidays, life event celebrations, a system of laws, language, foods, myths, stories, writings, etc, etc, etc. They are the same people.


Even if I give you that whole line, is there any proof that the Zionist settlers had ancestors from the holy land?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > OK, so is there any proof that the Zionist settlers had ancestors from the holy land?
> ...


Deflection.

You always duck questions.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > You've GOT to be kidding me. They share the same culture. The same religion, customs, holidays, life event celebrations, a system of laws, language, foods, myths, stories, writings, etc, etc, etc. They are the same people.
> ...



The fact that they have the same culture IS proof.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The question was whether or not the Jewish people have ancestors from the holy land.  I answered your question.  They are demonstrably the same people.  The culture proves they are the same people.  There is no duck here.  You just don't like the answer.  So you reject it out of hand.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> The fact that they have the same culture IS proof.


No, they picked up some Jewish traditions when they converted in the middle ages.

That in no way proves ancestry in Palestine.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

louie888 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that they have the same culture IS proof.
> ...



How does one "pick up" the entirety of Jewish tradition, language, religion and culture without being exposed to people of that culture?  Of course it proves ancestry in Israel, Judea and Samaria.  Culture is passed from person to person, family to family.


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


No, they picked up some Jewish traditions when they converted in the middle ages.

That in no way proves ancestry in Palestine.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > OK, so is there any proof that the Zionist settlers had ancestors from the holy land?
> ...



They are completely different people culturally, linguistically, system of laws, language etc.
You know very little about the subject let's just look at food.  

*Halakhic Differences Between Sephardic And Ashkenazi Traditions*

http://www.jewishpress.com/judaism/...ephardic-and-ashkenazi-traditions/2014/04/10/


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

And Italian Rite:

"As a cultural and geographical crossroad, Italy has known most Jewish rituals and ethnic variations. However, the Italian communities have somewhat remained loyal to their particular _nusach_, prayer rite. Most notably Italian Jews have kept a unique set and order of prayers, cantillation style and original liturgical songs. They also developed their own specific legal codes, Judeo-Italian dialects and folkloric traditions that are not found elsewhere."

The Italian Rite - J-Italy


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

In short, those that practice Roman Catholicism are just as much a people as those that practice Judaism, i.e. they are different people that practice the same religion.


----------



## Shusha (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> They are completely different people culturally, linguistically, system of laws, language etc.
> You know very little about the subject let's just look at food.



Really?  That Sephardic Jews eat chickpeas and rice on Pesach and Ashkenazi Jews don't eat chickpeas and rice on Pesach makes them an entirely different culture.  Why would you even bother to make such a weak argument?


----------



## louie888 (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Really? That Sephardic Jews eat chickpeas and rice on Pesach and Ashkenazi Jews don't eat chickpeas and rice on Pesach makes them an entirely different culture. Why would you even bother to make such a weak argument?


He made a much larger point than that in just his last few posts. In short, he shredded your previous claim which even if true, in no way connects Europeans to Palestine.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > They are completely different people culturally, linguistically, system of laws, language etc.
> ...



Food was just one example. Arab Jews adopted the Arabian culture and langauge, what similarity does that culture have with European culture of the Europeans that practice Judaism.

I am an Arab Jew  | +972 Magazine


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


You're full of shit...No empire would allow more than a certain quota of Jews into Israel for hundreds of years.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


99% the same; yes, my son-in-law is Sephardic and 99% of our traditions are identical.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


You know dip shit about the average day of an Observant Jew.
You know even less about Judaism.
But don't worry, the Roman Catholic Church declared that the Jews would never ever return to Israel.
Yet another proclamation made by the RCC that came true.
Like Jesus came and all the nations are living at peace with one another.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



It is you that is full of shit.  Where do you think the Sephardic Jews went after 1492.  All of those that didn't convert in Spain and Portugal?  They went to where their stubborn Muslim compatriots went.  The Ottoman Empire and Italy.  All that wanted to go.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


You constantly. demonstrate the ability to seek out a headline that matches your agenda.
Shabbos...Identical.
Rosh Hashahnah, Yom Kippur, Passover, Shevuous, Succos...Identical.
Tefillin...Identical.
99 of prayers the same.
Kosher...99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999% the same.
So they eat rice and corn on Passover and you don't even know why, you ignorant dipshit.  In fact, many Ashkenazim also eat rice and corn on passover because it's a rabbinic ordinance relevant to a limited time and place.

You're a Jew hating moron with zero insight on how Observant Jews live.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...




I just present facts.  You make things up.  A Catholic from Africa celebrates Christmas, Easter, All Saints Day and others.  A Catholic from Africa is baptized, has First Communion, Confirmation and is married and recieves Extreme Unction, just like a European Catholic.  And once, we all did not eat meat on Friday.  I don't hate those that practice Judaism, I just state the fact that Judaism is a religion, like Christianity is.  And, a person of any ancestry can practice either religion.  In short, you are full of shit.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 18, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



*Now* you post such a statement..*before* you stated that Ashkenazim and Sefardim are *two different brands* of Judaism with *tons* of differences.
You better delete that post if you can before everybody sees what a liar you are.


----------



## montelatici (Aug 18, 2017)

Indeependent said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Why should I delete a fact?


----------



## rylah (Aug 19, 2017)

Challenger said:


> Like Palestine and Palestinians? "Jews" are not a "tribe", in the ethnic sense of the word, they are followers of a religion although they do, nowadays exhibit tribal behavious, much like street gangs.



Jews actually inhibit most traits of a tribal system, it's just mutated as they developed into a nation, but tribal tradition is still kept until today. You should read some Jung to understand what is tribal culture.
Religion is just ONE aspect of an ethnic group. The only problem You have is with Jews accepting other people into their tribe/family. Racial purity has never been the aim of this tribe, survival was.




Challenger said:


> In modern Zionist Israeli "hebrew" perhaps. In antiquity the word didn't exist, "Yehudi"/"Ioudaos", etc.more accutately translate as "Judahhite" or "Judean". Peoples of antiquity never defined others by their religion or religious beliefs, until the dominence of Christianity in late antiquity/early medieval eras..



Of course it did, יהודה was a clan/tribe within Israel. Jew is יהודי.
Let me me see how You disconnect it using any version of Hebrew.





Challenger said:


> You cannot ethically cleanse a religious group. Judeans changed their religions over centuries; there was never a uniform religion in the region except during a brief interlude under the Hashmoneans, the ISIS of their day.



The version of their culture at that time bears no relevance. Jews during the millenias practiced many religions and many were totally secular. Again religion is only one aspect of a tribe/ethnicity but when You have a whole religion named after a tribe, and a land that bears it, it gives clues.




Challenger said:


> You are the one constantly harping on about race and blood purity, standard Zionist ideology.



Well, I'm answering You guys. You use terms like 'ethnicity' when actually Your understanding of it strongly relies on race and blood purity. This is not how nations are formed.




Challenger said:


> No-one had (or even has now) any objection to Jewish people living in Palestine


False. '_Living_'  is not_ 'breathing' _and it's not _"rights"._

Judenrhein is the Palestinian solution.



Challenger said:


> The objections arise when Zionists demand an exclusively Jewish state and dispossess and oppress the indigenous people there in order to achieve that state.



Your understanding of the term 'indigenous' is incorrect. Arabs are as native or indigenous to the land as the average American citizen indigenous to Milwaukee.



Challenger said:


> Let's assume, purely for the sake of argument, that I accept your premise that "Jews" are a "people" once "ethnically cleansed" from their "ancient homeland". Even if this were true, this does not give them the right to ethnically cleans others. There is nothing in statutory or customary International law that allows or has ever allowed this. Even the now defunct "right of conquest" meant you could rule the conquered population as your new subjects, not expell them en masse from their homes. In the modern context ethnic cleansing is a crime against Humanity, Zionists may have cashed in on the universal symathy generated by the Jewish Holocaust, but that currency has been spent long ago. People are no longer prepared to overlook Zionist israeli crimes against Humanity and that's why amongst the common people of the world Zionist Israel is ranked alongside pariah states like North Korea and Iran.



Nice demagoguery


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## rylah (Aug 19, 2017)

Challenger said:


> Jewish people had centuries of opportunity to go and settle in Palestine, yet even under the ottomans when there were no restrictions on Jewish travel anywhere within the empire, Jewish immigrants chose to settle in Greece, Istanbul or northern Anatolia, in fact anywhere but Palestine. Jewish "yearning" to return is a Zionist myth, and that's a fact.



Actually no. Not a myth, but one of the central themes in the Jewish culture.
We have been over this before, when You tried to avoid the answers. 
*Why don't You open a new thread where You show us how THAT land is not at the center of the Jewish culture?
*
Instead of just parroting slogans louie-style, why don't You challenge Yourself to learn to speak to both sides equally?


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## rylah (Aug 19, 2017)

Challenger said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > If it was stolen from the original owners...
> ...



So now I get to use the bible as well? Or is it just allowed against th Jews?
_
"Anti-zionist mentality."_


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## rylah (Aug 19, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Yes. If You guys actually tried to read any of the "proofs" You bring to the contrary.
What are You asking for, a pedigree?


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## rylah (Aug 19, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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Dude is splitting hairs on how Jews in Europe and Jews in Africa kept HAMETZ out during Passover..
And thinks this proves his point?? 

Do You know Sepehardi law stated during the inquisition that Jews had to hide their tzitit in the shirt, unlike the Jews in Yemen or Egypt?
Many still do today but the inquisition is supposedly "over"...

I suppose You also know that Jews who lived in Iraq and Persia call themselves Sephardi too?
Maybe we should discuss the arguments between the Babylonian Talmud and the Jerusalem Talmid?


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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Your facts are always out of context and out of sequence.
And everything you've posted concerning Ashkenazim and Sefardim is completely wrong.


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## Challenger (Aug 24, 2017)

rylah said:


> Jews actually inhibit most traits of a tribal system, it's just mutated as they developed into a nation, but tribal tradition is still kept until today.



Religious groups exhibit most traits of a tribal system; just look at Amish, Yazidis, etc. This does not make them a seperate people. Remove the rituals and rules of Judaism from a "Jew"  and they are merely Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Arabs, etc, etc. 



rylah said:


> Of course it did, יהודה was a clan/tribe within Israel.



As I said earlier, perhaps in modern Israeli "hebrew". 



rylah said:


> Jews during the millenias practiced many religions and many were totally secular.



That would be Judeans, "Jews" are followers/devotees of Judaism, and yes they did practice many religions including Islam and Christianity.



rylah said:


> False. '_Living_' is not_ 'breathing' _and it's not _"rights"._
> 
> Judenrhein is the Palestinian solution.



Ah, resorting to statard Hasbara tropes



rylah said:


> Your understanding of the term 'indigenous' is incorrect. Arabs are as native or indigenous to the land as the average American citizen indigenous to Milwaukee.



Palestinians who adopted Arabic language and culture are still indigenous to the land. The average Zionist Israeli is as indigenous to the land as the average American citizen indigenous to Milwaukee.



rylah said:


> Nice demagoguery



Coming from a Hasbarist, I'll take that as a complement. I won't hold my breath waiting for a serious response however.



rylah said:


> Actually no. Not a myth, but one of the central themes in the Jewish culture.



What culture? Remove the religion and all you have are Poles, Germans, Russians, Spaniards, Hungarians, etc.


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## Roudy (Aug 24, 2017)

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > Jews actually inhibit most traits of a tribal system, it's just mutated as they developed into a nation, but tribal tradition is still kept until today.
> ...


Wrong, on many levels.


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## montelatici (Aug 24, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
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Yes, you are always wrong on all levels.  There are millions of Spaniards whose ancestors practiced Judaism and Islam,  and converted to Christianity. They are now Christian Spaniards.   You don't get it.  Once a European Jew converts to Christianity, he becomes a European Christian.  The Spaniards eat paella, like bullfighting etc.  The Germans eat weiner schnitzel and like drinking beer.  The only thing Jewish about them was the religion.  Once the religion is gone they are the same as the rest of the Christians of the particular ethnic/national group.


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## Roudy (Aug 26, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
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Still wrong....and very ignorant.  There is always a Jewish subculture within every nationality. The Spanish Jews lived a very different life and had a very different culture than your everyday Spanish Christian, especially during medieval Spain.  I have been to Spain and observed the "Jewish quarters" or what's left of them all across Spain. 

Spain's Top 10 Must See Jewish Quarters - WJH

*GIRONA*

And now to Spain’s very far East – Girona. Girona’s beauty – the hilly Capuchins to the east of the river Onyar; the modern town on the plains of the west – is breathtaking and varied. Nowadays, Girona is a popular day trip for tourists from Barcelona. It’s Jewish past, dating from the late 9th century, isn’t completely obvious at first glance; for that, you have to dig a little deeper. Take a visit to the Centre Bonastruc ça Porta – the Jewish Museum, within the boundaries of the Jewish ‘Call’ (quarter) and the site of Girona’s last synagogue–details all areas of medieval Spanish-Jewish life, including the most famous Jewish Gironan of all, the celebrated Talmudist Nahmanides.


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## rylah (Aug 27, 2017)

Challenger said:


> Religious groups exhibit most traits of a tribal system; just look at Amish, Yazidis, etc. This does not make them a seperate people. Remove the rituals and rules of Judaism from a "Jew"  and they are merely Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Arabs, etc, etc.



So? Tribes too. I don't know if there was a tribe of Yazid, but the tribe of  יהודה has a land and a whole religion named after it.
Your logic here is flawed, grass is not  a banana because it's green. But if You take the smell and taste from the banana, sure You can call it "grass", but it's still a tasteless banana You have forced to change.

Yazidis are indigenous to Mesopotamia, American Christians are not indigenous. But Yazidis who live in the US or elsewhere, are still indigenous to Mesopotamia, even if they drink American beer and eat bacon or adopted the local language.It's just life.

The same Germans, Arabs, Ukrainians etc used words like Jude, Jid, Hebrey, Yahud...sounds familiar?
European nationalism is only 300 yrs old, it didn't manage to erase those conections and memories,however welcoming it tries to look.  it's not even "yesterday" in terms of Jewish history.





Challenger said:


> As I said earlier, perhaps in modern Israeli "hebrew".


And as I said earlier,
I challenge You to disconnect יהודי  from יהודה using any version of Hebrew.



Challenger said:


> That would be Judeans, "Jews" are followers/devotees of Judaism, and yes they did practice many religions including Islam and Christianity.


Again it's all the same, Judah the tribe, Judea the land of the tribe and Judaism the culture and religion of that same tribe.But in Hebrew it's all one single word יהודה. The Hebrew language is even called יהודית.




Challenger said:


> Ah, resorting to statard Hasbara tropes


Arabs have rights to that land. I've dealt with that, and I'm an Israeli. Jews have rights to that land. Now deal with it, it's Your issue, not mine.

No matter how thin You try to slice it, always 2 sides.



Challenger said:


> Palestinians who adopted Arabic language and culture are still indigenous to the land. The average Zionist Israeli is as indigenous to the land as the average American citizen indigenous to Milwaukee.




Funny You bring these people, because the Jews who adopted Arabic,still keep to their Jewish heritage, and have close ties to Israel and especially to the settlers.The majority of Palestinian Arabs historically identify with invading Arabian tribes,even today.




Challenger said:


> Coming from a Hasbarist, I'll take that as a complement. I won't hold my breath waiting for a serious response however.


I don't get the chest beating. With all Your fixation on religion You have become quiet dogmatic



Challenger said:


> What culture? Remove the religion and all you have are Poles, Germans, Russians, Spaniards, Hungarians, etc.


Remove the religion and what You have is the educational system, songs,shared history and heritage, community and social structure, language and alphabet, philosophy, literature, law, nation, land, graves, archeology, humor.

The discussion here is more on the definition of culture. Deserves a whole thread.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## montelatici (Aug 27, 2017)

Yes, remove the religion and the educational system, the songs, the history, heritage, community, social structure, alphabet, language literatiure, law, nation, land, archeology and humor of Italian Jews, for example, is the same as Italian Christians.  Graves are religious. Same as with Jews from France, Great Britain, Poland etc.


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## rylah (Aug 27, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Yes, remove the religion and the educational system, the songs, the history, heritage, community, social structure, alphabet, language literatiure, law, nation, land, archeology and humor of Italian Jews, for example, is the same as Italian Christians.  Graves are religious. Same as with Jews from France, Great Britain, Poland etc.



Really? And all music comes from the basis of the pentatonic scale, used by Africans, Chinese, Japanese and even Russians. So I guess there's no Italian music really...

I'd like to see Your structural analysis of what makes a Neapolitan chorus, versus a German chorus and a Russian one. Please refer to harmony, typical motifs and articulation.
Please pay attention to 1/2 steps and alterations of 3rd's.
Then we can proceed to examination of Russian orchestral pieces with Jewish motifs versus Russian motifs.

But let's make it simpler for You. European music is still stuck with the 7/12 system,98% of what You hear on a western radio is basically 1 Major scale and it's minor relative. Your threshold is Harmonic minor, this is where You start feeling "not home" or "exotic eastern".
On the other hand, the most of traditional Jewish music starts with Harmonic minor, and goes further beyond into the south-east, using a distinctive pattern of repetition and articulation that goes well along with Hebrew.

*The most sophisticated European music, although very pleasant is actually really limited and primitive.*
But take the simplest Jewish traditional song like "Hava Nagila", in its' traditional Ashkenazi version-
You START with a motif in Harmonic minor (5th mode!) and have a couple of modulations in the middle.And all that in a 2:30 song.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now were You talking about the norther Italians who are more like Germans or their southern brothers who're much more Mediterranean? Because You know if we dig into Italian culture we'll see a lot that is not only "theirs".
Or are You saying Italian capital is Jerusalem?


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## montelatici (Aug 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, remove the religion and the educational system, the songs, the history, heritage, community, social structure, alphabet, language literatiure, law, nation, land, archeology and humor of Italian Jews, for example, is the same as Italian Christians.  Graves are religious. Same as with Jews from France, Great Britain, Poland etc.
> ...



LOL. How about listening to Italian opera like Lodovico Rocca's opera Il Dibuk  or Alberto Franchetti's Cristoforo Colombo or Germania. Among many other musical works  by Jewish Italians before writing revisionist nonsense that you copy and paste.  It's Italian music, nothing Middle Eastern about it.


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## rylah (Aug 28, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



How about a serious response? 
Sometimes it's ok to admit You don't know, it's sign of sanity.
I actually didn't have to copy paste anything, because it's my daily language, and I didn't even start talking about the 1/4 steps and the phrasing patterns, which are rarely found in the traditions of the West if at all, that are all over Jewish music..

But sure for deaf people this traditional song of the Jewish community in Italy, might sound like Figaro:


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## montelatici (Aug 28, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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> > rylah said:
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How about a serious response instead of posting self-adulating BS.  Italian Jews are Italians that  practice Judaism, just as American Jews are Americans that practice Judaism.  It's a religion, stupid.


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## rylah (Aug 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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No, You don't even understand the terms at hand.
Religion, in the sense that You use it, is a modern western construct.
Western nationalism is a modern concept as well.
 And btw I can easily turn any nation or govt. system into a religion using those terms. They all have rituals and terms like "justice" and "G-d".

Then again, if You wanna go that route, You just solved the problem for immigrant Arabs who want to call themselves "Palestinian" in America, Qatar, Italy and Germany.


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## montelatici (Aug 29, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
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You don't understand anything.  Palestinian is an ethnic group.  They can be of any religion.  Jew is not an ethnic group, it is a person that practices Judaism.  An Inuit can be a Jew, or a Christian or a Muslim.  Judaism is a religion stupid, stop trying to make it more than it is.


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## rylah (Aug 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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No,יהודה/יהודים is a tribe, with a culture and a land. A more modern Western term would be an 'ethno-religious" group.
And was a nation long before Arabian tribes and Bedouins took their land and the name of the legendary _'sea people'_
But again You're trying to fit a 3500 yrs old Jewsh culture,history and people into a modern western term ,that has no universal definition.

_"For example, anthropologist Talal Asad has argued that all attempts at a universal definition of religion are doomed to fail because *religion as a concept is itself the product of a specifically Western modern discourse*."_
_https://divinity.uchicago.edu/sites/default/files/imce/pdfs/webforum/122003/riesebrodtessay.pdf_

The separation is artificial, and is not sufficiently applicable to translations into non-Western cultures and languages.


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## montelatici (Aug 29, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



When did these Arabian tribes take any land from Jews?  The land had been Christian and had been inhabited by Christians for centuries before the Arabs conquered Palestine.  And, the Christians remained in Palestine and were not colonized by the Arabs, who stayed as rulers.  

There is no 3,500 year Jewish culture.  Americans, Poles, Germans, Italians and others that practice Judaism are culturally of their respective nationalities.  It is religion, which in its current form is of indeterminant age.  An Inuit can practice Judaism.  Didn't they ever teach you that a round peg won't fit in square hole.


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## rylah (Aug 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Arabian tribes indeed colonized the land. There're towns full of Arabian tribes from Yemen, Arabia and Hijaz, and they openly admit their origins. Jews never disappeared from the land, and it never ceased to be their land. As much as _"America"_ didn't cese to be the land of the indigenous people, even if the colonizers converted them into "Americans" or "Christians".
The term "RELIGION"  is a modern European construct, andis not applicable to non-Western cultures. You cannot fit the east into modern western terms, without forcing in a whole system of additional political terms foreign- to those cultures

An Inuit can also become German and practice "Germanism", with all the national holidays,customs and morals.
Is German nationality a religion?


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## rylah (Aug 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Didn't they ever teach you that a round peg won't fit in square hole.



That's exactly what You try to do here - fit 3500 years of distinct culture and a people into modern European terms (that the westerners themselves can't agree upon).
It's just much more than what You can fit into one word - a tribe, a nation, a culture, a land and the religion.

By the way here's a new term for You - ETHNIC religions. Why don't You check the list?


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## montelatici (Aug 29, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
> ...



The Arabians that invaded Palestine were not even a majority in the Muslim armies, they were the officer corps and conquered lands to rule.  Muslims all over the world claim to be descendants of the Arabians, it is a sign of status among Muslims to claim Arabian heritage, as Mohammed was an Arab.  In fact, outside of Arabia, Arabs have very little Arabian heritage.  Even Egyptians are only 17% Arabian and mostly native people from the area.  Tunisian "Arabs" are only 4% Arabian.  Palestinians are probably somewhere in between, about the same amount of Arabian DNA as Ashkenazi Jews (10%) and less than Arab Jews.

Plus, basic logic debunks your bullshit.  The Arabian desert could not support large populations.  Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia.  The now increased population is a result of costly water and associated energy resources utilized to desalinate (and other water generation techniques) that the Saudis and other Arabian states could not afford before the petroleum revolution. Even in 1930 there were only 2 million people in all of  Arabia.  Byzantine Palestine was far more populous than Arabia in 600 AD.  

Judaism is a religion.  Germans of all faiths are culturally German after a few generations.  Just like Americans of all faiths become culturally American after a generation or two.  Your dog won't hunt.  Try reading some real history instead of Hasbara bullshit.

By the way, your crazy ideas are consistent with Nazi ideas about Jews.  They were wrong then and are wrong now.


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## montelatici (Aug 29, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't they ever teach you that a round peg won't fit in square hole.
> ...



Yeah, yeah.  You are such a fool.

"Hitler and other Nazi leaders viewed the Jews not as a religious group, but as a poisonous "race," which "lived off" the other races and weakened them. After Hitler took power, Nazi teachers in school classrooms began to apply the "principles" of racial science. They measured skull size and nose length, and recorded the color of their pupils' hair and eyes to determine whether students belonged to the true "Aryan race." Jewish and Romani (Gypsy) students were often humiliated in the process."

Nazi Racism


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## Shusha (Aug 29, 2017)

Those claiming Judaism is "only" a religion and not a culture need to provide an objective list of criteria which clearly defines each.


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## rylah (Aug 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
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There's no logic to what You say, especially if You judge a situation in the 7th century, by Your subjective, personal experience in  the 21st century. *Lebanon is 44% Arabian - according to Your source. *And it's much closer than Egypt or Tunis.

And I'm sorry to reveal to You, but Turks in Germany are still Turks in every sense of the word, and the Kurds in US didn't magically become "Native Americans" even though they might have US citizenship, play football and celebrate the 4th of July or New year's eve. It doesn't mean Kurds or Turks can't be loyal citizens, and it doesn't mean they consider themselves a separate better race. They're just differentiate culturally from the Italians, Irish and the REAL indigenous Americans.


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## rylah (Aug 29, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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And this is exactly what YOU do, with Your fixation on blood purity, race and skin color of Jews.

This is You claiming that Jews don't deserve rights as a nation and a people, because Hitler was fixated on defining them as a sub-human race. This is using Nazi ideology  TWICE - first to cleanse Jews from Europe then from Judea-Samaria.

Tell me do Slovak's deserve no rights to define themselves as a people and a nation because Nazis considered Slavs as subhuman too?

*BTW their religion is called "Pravo-*Slavana* Сirkev" ...using Your logic they're merely a religion too.


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## rylah (Aug 29, 2017)

Shusha said:


> Those claiming Judaism is "only" a religion and not a culture need to provide an objective list of criteria which clearly defines each.



This is spot on.
I'm just waiting to see what happens when they realize  that the one is among the criterias of another.
Don't You think that western democracy is a no-less religious concept, with its' rituals and divine morals of "Justice, liberty and equality before G-d"? How about punishment for civic "sins" against the just law (and neighbors) brought up by the nation's forefathers?

I mean,Jewish culture and law have covered everything that the modern political systems deal with today. Aren't religious institutions and govt. similar in most ways?


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## Linkiloo (Aug 31, 2017)

Do you have people like this reading to little kids in the US, arguing propaganda with children outside of the school syllabus? He needs to be fired if he is being paid for this. I wouldn't want a creepy old guy trying to indoctrinate my kids with his views.


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## montelatici (Aug 31, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
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Stating the simple fact that Judaism is a religion and that European Jews are Europeans has nothing to do with blood purity.  Further asserting the fact that these Europeans had no right to invade a inhabited territory on another continent through the force of British arms; and colonize said territory while evicting the native population has nothing to do racial superiority or inferiority.  It's just a fact.

Like you, Hitler did not view as a religious group.  Like you, he viewed them as a people or a race that could not be loyal to Germany.  Jews of the day rejected the idea that they were a separate race and believed that they were just as German as Germans of other religions.


The Slovaks were native to and were living in Slovakia, they didn't colonize a territory nor evict the native people.  

You just don't get it do you.


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## rylah (Aug 31, 2017)

Don't worry, I clearly see Your game.
You use terms with the Nazi interpretation, without understanding what they originally meant.

Look it's not Babylon, there ARE other languages than English. 
 And while You westerners are struggling because You invent 10 new English words for the same thing, and then change their meaning...non-Western cultures have those terms already set in stone for thousands of years. 

Like "*עם ישראל*" - nation of Israel
"*שבט יהודה*" - tribe of Judah
"*יהוד*י" - member of the tribe of Judah.
"*יהודה*" - the land of the tribe of Judah
"*שפה יהודית"*- Jewish language.


But lets's go on with that interpretation as You used:


montelatici said:


> *as a people or a race*



So Germans who are a nation and a people, with their culture -claim to be a separate "*German race*"?
Do English people/Brits claim to be a separate race, or are they simply a religion because they call it "*church of England*"?
Are Russians claiming to be race because they have their culture, history, land and a state named after them (Russian federation) and a church bearing their name "*Russka pravo-Slavna*"?

BTW Jews in Europe are as much "native Europeans" as Kurds or Japanese people are native to Germany.
As much as there's a reason to why Italian American, is not really a "Native American". They're just people with a different culture and ethnicity...doesn't make them a separate race either.
Twisted Nazi terminology, Western nationalism, *eating spaghetti or celebrating the 4th of July *don't magically erase those people's ethnic identities and cultures.

I think it's called freedom.


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## Roudy (Aug 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Palestinians are an ath if group?!  Ha ha ha. Yeah, and ethnic group no different than their neighboring Arabs in any way shape or form.  Actually, they ARE them.


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## Roudy (Aug 31, 2017)

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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What does this "blood purity" mean anyhow?  

Israel is the ancient religious and spiritual homeland of the Jews and they have every right to establish a state on this land.  Jews from all over the world, converts, and levels of purity have a right to be in this land.  "Italy" is not the Jewish holy land, dufus, ISRAEL is.


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## Roudy (Aug 31, 2017)

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rylah said:
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They use several angles, all massive failures, to discredit the Jewish state and the Jewish people.  This is one of them.  They skip from "its stolen land" to "apartheid" to "fake Jews" to "DNA / blood purity" to a variety of antisemtic canards like "Jewish control" etc... depending on what the time of day or week is.  This is all they have, which is nothing, and they keep repeating it like robots.


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## montelatici (Sep 1, 2017)

It is stolen land.  It was stolen from the native inhabitants by the European colonists.  And, Israel is an Apartheid state.  And, the European colonists were Europeans.  Just facts that can't be denied.


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## Hollie (Sep 1, 2017)

montelatici said:


> It is stolen land.  It was stolen from the native inhabitants by the European colonists.  And, Israel is an Apartheid state.  And, the European colonists were Europeans.  Just facts that can't be denied.


I think we can agree that the European xtian Crusaders were colonists.

Just fact you have difficulty confronting.


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## Roudy (Sep 1, 2017)

montelatici said:


> It is stolen land.  It was stolen from the native inhabitants by the European colonists.  And, Israel is an Apartheid state.  And, the European colonists were Europeans.  Just facts that can't be denied.


When all else fails, divert to the usual bullshit about "stolen land" etc.  wash, rinse, repeat.


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## montelatici (Sep 2, 2017)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > It is stolen land.  It was stolen from the native inhabitants by the European colonists.  And, Israel is an Apartheid state.  And, the European colonists were Europeans.  Just facts that can't be denied.
> ...



The native inhabitants 95% Muslims and Christians that were living in Palestine before the Jew/British invasion owned the land and are the descendants of the people that began converting to Christianity at the time of Christ.  The European Jews/British invaded and stole the land from said native people. What's so difficult to understand.  The Europeans were from another continent and invaded Palestine.  It's just a fact.


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## Hollie (Sep 2, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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It's comical how you cut and paste the same nonsense from thread to thread. 

We're still left to chuckle at your "Jew invasion" meme as there is simply no historical record of any such event. There is, however, ample evidence of the Turk invasion, the Islamist conquest and the European xtian Crusaders invading the area. 

How strange that you are so ignorant of the facts yet rattle on with cutting and pasting demonstrations of your profound ignorance.


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## fanger (Sep 2, 2017)

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Aliyah Bet - Wikipedia

Aliyah Bet (1939-1948)

*ALIYAH BET*





_Aliyah Bet_ is the Hebrew term that refers to the clandestine immigration of Jews to Palestine between 1920 and 1948, when Great Britain controlled the area.

The Hebrew word "aliyah" (literally, "ascent") commonly refers to immigration to the Land of Israel, while "bet" (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter "B") here implies something unofficial or secret. The phrase Aliyah Bet describes the movement of Jewish refugees, many of them survivors of the Holocaust, not permitted to enter Palestine by the British authorities. Initiated by Zionist activists as the urgency for Jews to leave Europe intensified, this phenomenon was referred to by the British as "illegal" immigration. By 1948, well over 100,000 people had taken this route, including more than 70,000 Holocaust survivors.
Aliyah Bet


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## Hollie (Sep 2, 2017)

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
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> 
> > montelatici said:
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So no, then. Your usual scrounging around in the bowels of wiki fails to show any "invasion". Thanks. Back to Stormfront for you. 

Scoot.


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## fanger (Sep 2, 2017)

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
jewish scum invade Palestine


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## Hollie (Sep 2, 2017)

fanger said:


> ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
> jewish scum invade Palestine



I can see you're angry and frustrated. Don't let your failure to support the silly "invasion" claim consume you. Just drink large quantities of alcohol. It will cure what ails you.


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## fanger (Sep 2, 2017)




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## Hollie (Sep 2, 2017)

fanger said:


>



You're a YouTube groupie. Nice.

Still nothing to support your silly "invasion" slogan.


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## fanger (Sep 2, 2017)

Hollie said:


> fanger said:
> 
> 
> > ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
> ...


despite what your rabbi tells you masturbation is not a sin if you can't find a partner willing to put up with your shite


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## Hollie (Sep 2, 2017)

fanger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
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> > fanger said:
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That's a shame about your failed attempt at supporting your silly "invasion" argument. Just resort to hurling insults... you angry Habib.


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## rylah (Sep 2, 2017)

The issue is not difficult at all, IF YOU READ WHAT THEY SAY IN ARABIC.

Up until today, the vast majority of the Palestinian society is divided between 2 groups:
Southern (Yemeni) tribes and Northern Arabian tribes.

But of course in English all You hear is _"we've been here since before the cave man"

*Book of Soba -* History of the homeland and life of the village (Ibrahim Awadallah Faqih)_


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## montelatici (Sep 3, 2017)

There are myths, then there are historical facts.  The Palestinian "Arabs" are no more "Arabian" than modern day Egyptians.


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## Roudy (Sep 3, 2017)

Exactly, the Palestinian Arabs are the same as the Egyptian Arabs, Jordanian Arabs, and the Syrian Arabs.  In fact they are them.  Palestinian is a new concept and fraud.  Yet another instance of Monte putting his hoof in his mouth.


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## Shusha (Sep 3, 2017)

montelatici said:


> There are myths, then there are historical facts.  The Palestinian "Arabs" are no more "Arabian" than modern day Egyptians.



The "Palestinians" self-identify with Syrians and Jordanians at the least and with the greater Arab Muslim Nation at the greatest.  Who are we to argue with their self-identification?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 3, 2017)

Roudy said:


> Exactly, the Palestinian Arabs are the same as the Egyptian Arabs, Jordanian Arabs, and the Syrian Arabs.  In fact they are them.  Palestinian is a new concept and fraud.  Yet another instance of Monte putting his hoof in his mouth.


Not to mention that before WWI they were all the same place. Going from Amman to Jaffa was no different than going from Albany to Buffalo.


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## rylah (Sep 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly, the Palestinian Arabs are the same as the Egyptian Arabs, Jordanian Arabs, and the Syrian Arabs.  In fact they are them.  Palestinian is a new concept and fraud.  Yet another instance of Monte putting his hoof in his mouth.
> ...



But You don't also mention that going from Greece, or Italy or Yemen and Hidjaz was as much available.
And there's clear evidence in the Palestinian sources about settlements of Morrocans, Egyptians, Bosnians and Arabian tribes.

It's much more than just "a myth".
Jews remained as Indians remained -  a minority in  their ancestral lands, and even today according to You guys.


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## Roudy (Sep 4, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly, the Palestinian Arabs are the same as the Egyptian Arabs, Jordanian Arabs, and the Syrian Arabs.  In fact they are them.  Palestinian is a new concept and fraud.  Yet another instance of Monte putting his hoof in his mouth.
> ...


Yeah, it was all Ottoman territory and no Arab called themselves "Palestinian", nor was the land ruled or controled by Arabs.   Ain't that a hoot!  Then the Ottomans joined with the Germans in WWI, and lost all of it.  And then once the state of Israel was restablished, out of nowhere the Arabs decided to call themselves "Palestinian", a name that only applied to the Jews of the region.  In fact, if you called an Arab a Palestinian during the Ottoman Empire, he'd slap you in the face for insulting him by called him a Jew!


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## montelatici (Sep 7, 2017)

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> 
> > Roudy said:
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Printed during Ottoman rule.


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## Roudy (Sep 7, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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Printed 1906 in English!  Ha ha ha. OMG


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## montelatici (Sep 7, 2017)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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> 
> > Roudy said:
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Well wouldn't a language manual for English speakers to learn Palestinian Arabic, printed during Ottoman rule be in the English language?  The fact is, your whole bullshit line that Palestinians do not exist is trashed with one small language manual.


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## Shusha (Sep 7, 2017)

montelatici said:


> The fact is, your whole bullshit line that Palestinians do not exist is trashed with one small language manual.



You are SUCH a hypocrite.  If all it takes to create a national culture is a "small language manual" (which differentiates Palestine Arabic from Syrian or Jordanian Arabic) then the Jewish people clearly and obviously meet that criteria with the Hebrew language and therefore exist as a national culture.  And yet you keep arguing that they do not.  Such a hypocrite.


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## Roudy (Sep 7, 2017)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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> > montelatici said:
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Because "Palestine" is the European name for an area the Ottomans called Southern Syria for 700 years.  Doy!

Afternoon Map: Ottoman and Arab Maps of Palestine, 1880s-1910s

Our next map, like the rest in _Jughrafiya-i Osmani_ (see 90, 101, 104, and 116), make no mention of Palestine anywhere.  This was not uncommon for the period, *as Palestine did not constitute an administrative district in the Ottoman Empire.  Instead, the entire region is labeled ‘Suriye’ in all of these maps.*






he final map in our collection comes from George Post’s _Nabat Suriya wa-Filastin wa-al-Qatr al-Misri wa-Bawadiha_ (Beirut, n.p., 1884), 411 (The Flora of Syria, Palestine, and the Egyptian Country and its Desert).  *The title of the map itself is: The Botanical Climate of Syria (Aqalim Suriyya al-Nabatiyya). Note that Filastin does not appear anywhere on the map. * Again, insofar as this is a translation of a book by one of most well-regarded botanists and *geographers of Palestine in the nineteenth century, we once again see just how much the Arabs, in this case, came under the influence of their European counterparts.* *Indeed, this is one of the first books ever published in the Arab language which included the word ‘Filastin’ in the title of the work, and, low and behold, it is a translation from the English! *


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## Roudy (Sep 7, 2017)

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The fact is, your whole bullshit line that Palestinians do not exist is trashed with one small language manual.
> ...


So Palestinians were "English speakers"?!  Or perhaps, "Palestinian" is a European name for European English speakers?!  I'll go with option no. 2.  LOL.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 7, 2017)

This is not a difficult issue. The solution has been around for over 50 years.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


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## Slyhunter (Sep 7, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> This is not a difficult issue. The solution has been around for over 50 years.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


3000 years in fact. God gave that land to the Israelites. Period.


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## Shusha (Sep 7, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> This is not a difficult issue. The solution has been around for over 50 years.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration



EXACTLY.  It is not a difficult issue.  Let's decolonize Israel and restore her to the Jewish people.

Oh wait, that isn't what you meant is it?


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## Roudy (Sep 7, 2017)

P F Tinmore said:


> This is not a difficult issue. The solution has been around for over 50 years.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration


Oh great, now the Arabs are going to give back all the lands they invaded, looted, colonized, and then shoved their religion, language and culture down the throats of the people!


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