# Voter Fraud - Election Fraud



## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

Current story on Yahoo! News Home:

ACORN controversy: Voter fraud or mudslinging? - Yahoo! News



> ACORN controversy: Voter fraud or mudslinging?
> By DEBORAH HASTINGS, AP National Writer Deborah Hastings, Ap National Writer Sat Oct 18, 12:37 pm ET
> 
> The stories are almost comical: Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, registered to vote on Nov. 4. The entire starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team, signed up to go the polls  in Nevada.
> ...



Once again the press going to an ACORN ally in attempt to discount legitimate requests for oversight. 

Common Cause is another community activist organization and a regular ally of ACORN, which AP reporters should know:

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT ACORN, CONNECTICUT COMMON CAUSE, CONNECTICUT CITIZEN ACTION GROUP,



> UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
> DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT
> *ACORN, CONNECTICUT COMMON CAUSE,*
> CONNECTICUT CITIZEN ACTION GROUP,
> ...


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## Ravi (Oct 18, 2008)

It's not just AP. Newspapers across the country have been skeptical about the trumped up charges against ACORN. Not to mention, most of us know that Bush's attorneys general got fired last time around because they couldn't find any evidence of voter fraud.

Hell, my own Republican Gov, Charlie Crist, even pointed out that the GOP was full of shit on this.

But feel free to show us any actual proof of fraudulent voting, Kathianne. 

I can hook you up with a link to Anne Coulter's voter fraud.


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## Ravi (Oct 18, 2008)

Oh, and did you see this? It cracked me up and I was thinking of starting a thread about it. Nice little story about the Republican version of ACORN registering people as Republicans without their knowledge.

Voters say they were duped into registering as Republicans - Los Angeles Times


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## del (Oct 18, 2008)

Ravi said:


> It's not just AP. Newspapers across the country have been skeptical about the trumped up charges against ACORN. Not to mention, most of us know that Bush's attorneys general got fired last time around because they couldn't find any evidence of voter fraud.
> 
> Hell, my own Republican Gov, Charlie Crist, even pointed out that the GOP was full of shit on this.
> 
> ...



most of us call them united states attorneys.
he's only got one attorney general.
for now


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## Ravi (Oct 18, 2008)

del said:


> most of us call them united states attorneys.
> he's only got one attorney general.
> for now


Thanks for the correction.


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## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

Ravi said:


> It's not just AP. Newspapers across the country have been skeptical about the trumped up charges against ACORN. Not to mention, most of us know that Bush's attorneys general got fired last time around because they couldn't find any evidence of voter fraud.
> 
> Hell, my own Republican Gov, Charlie Crist, even pointed out that the GOP was full of shit on this.
> 
> ...


So, why isn't AP doing so-I mean really looking at the charges? Instead their defense is to get an ally of Acorn to say it's trumped up. 

For the simple reason of not insulting your intelligence or that of all the posters here, I've been silent about what the SCOTUS ruling means, assuming you all are aware and just spinning. 

It would behoove you all though to realize you may not be getting what you wish for with your presumed new government.


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## del (Oct 18, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Thanks for the correction.



you're welcome.


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## Ravi (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> It would behoove you all though to realize you may not be getting what you wish for with your presumed new government.


Believe me, I realize it. If Obama wins and Congress has a super majority of democrats, they will no doubt screw the pooch just like the republicans did.

But I've never been above feeling satisfied that a bunch of hate mongers end up in the gutter.


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## del (Oct 18, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Believe me, I realize it. If Obama wins and Congress has a super majority of democrats, they will no doubt screw the pooch just like the republicans did.
> 
> But I've never been above feeling satisfied that a bunch of hate mongers end up in the gutter.


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## Luissa (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> So, why isn't AP doing so-I mean really looking at the charges? Instead their defense is to get an ally of Acorn to say it's trumped up.
> 
> For the simple reason of not insulting your intelligence or that of all the posters here, I've been silent about what the SCOTUS ruling means, assuming you all are aware and just spinning.
> 
> It would behoove you all though to realize you may not be getting what you wish for with your presumed new government.


Why don't you answer her question about providing a link where these people actually voted! You can register as Mickey Mouse but when you show up to vote you are either going to need a custome and a ID with your picture as Mickey Mouse, or really be Mickey Mouse!


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## Luissa (Oct 18, 2008)

Have they had McLovin try to register in Hawaii yet?


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## Larkinn (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> So, why isn't AP doing so-I mean really looking at the charges? Instead their defense is to get an ally of Acorn to say it's trumped up.



Their defense?   Its called showing both sides of an issue.   I guess you prefer when newspapers only show one side, the side you agree with?


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## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> Their defense?   Its called showing both sides of an issue.   I guess you prefer when newspapers only show one side, the side you agree with?



You twit, they are just showing one side. While trying to paint 'hate' on the other side, when the concern is undermining our electoral system.


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## rayboyusmc (Oct 18, 2008)

> The stories are almost comical: Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, registered to vote on Nov. 4. The entire starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team, signed up to go the polls  in Nevada.
> 
> But no one in either presidential campaign is laughing. Not publicly, anyway.
> 
> ...



ACORN controversy: Voter fraud or mudslinging? - Yahoo! News


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## Larkinn (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> You twit, they are just showing one side. While trying to paint 'hate' on the other side, when the concern is undermining our electoral system.



One side?

So Palin is on ACORN's side as well?

And when they said:



> Obama helped represent ACORN in a successful 1995 suit against the state of Illinois, which forced enactment of the so-called motor-voter law, making it easier for people to register vote. Obama said this week that he had "nothing to do with" ACORN's massive voter registration drive.



That was them doing their damnest to help Obama too, right?


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## DiveCon (Oct 18, 2008)

yeah, its nothing

thats why ACORN has admitted guilt and paid fines
yeah, sure


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## trobinett (Oct 18, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> Why don't you answer her question about providing a link where these people actually voted! You can register as Mickey Mouse but when you show up to vote you are either going to need a custome and a ID with your picture as Mickey Mouse, or really be Mickey Mouse!



Shouldn't be hard to do, hell, there are people "proving" their Elvis Presley .


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## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

Larkinn said:


> One side?
> 
> So Palin is on ACORN's side as well?
> 
> ...



Sorry, Obama did that, which I'm sure you know. Lying isn't working with me, though I agree that with AP it certainly will. Then again, AP is going in the tank literally, with Tribune being the first big conglomerate to give two years notice.

Probably wasn't the smartest deal that AP tried to up their rates, while losing credibility.


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## Silence (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> You twit, they are just showing one side. While trying to paint 'hate' on the other side, when the concern is undermining our electoral system.



you can't be serious with this kath.  Are you just as outraged at the efforts by the GOP regarding voter suppression?  The DNC nor Obama have been using ACORN.  Obama used an ACORN subsidiary during the primaries and since then has implemented his own get out the vote team which has proven far superior to that of ACORN.  

I attended a voter registration training meeting for the Obama campaign and they gave STRICT instruction that everyone we registered had to show ou a valid ID otherwise the registration would be thrown out.  

ACORN flagged the questionable registrations THEMSELVES or does that slip your attention or not count?  They had people working for them, being paid to register people and instead of doing the job they were paid for, they made shit up.  ACORN alerted the proper authorities about this problem and NO fraudulent votes have been cast based on those registrations.  

This is the GOP effort to make it seem plausible to challenge new registrations.  it's nothing more and nothing less.


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## Red Dawn (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> You twit, they are just showing one side. While trying to paint 'hate' on the other side, when the concern is undermining our electoral system.




Have you been reading rightwing blogs for so many years, that you can't recognize a news story that presents both sides of an issue?



> Republicans, led by John McCain, are alleging widespread voter fraud.
> 
> Is ACORN, according to McCain, perpetuating voter fraud that could be "destroying the fabric of democracy"?
> 
> ...



You Cons have been ranting and raving about this stuff for years.  But when asked, you've NEVER given a credible link to any PROOF that people are actually _voting_ fraudulently.  The FBI has looked into it, and non-partisan studies have been done on it.  And there's virtually no evidence of anybody intentionally voting fraudulently. 

Please post your proof if you have it. 

The thing about hurling accusations, is that its not up to us or the AP to disprove your accussations.  You have to be the one to provide some evidence or proof of your accussations. 

All I've seen is that some jerks registered as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, or as members of the Dallas Cowboys.  No one is going to show up at the polls to vote as Donald Duck.   I think, at this point, what the evidence shows is that a few people were being assholes and filling out fake registrations as a stupid joke, or that a few ACORN workers filled out some bogus ones as a way of making a few fast bucks.   

ACORN flagged those registration cards as being possibly bogus and turned them into the State, on their own accord, and as required by law.  

I'm not seeing a vast criminal conspiracy here to commit actual and intentional _voting_ fraud.  I'm seeing evidence of _registration_ fraud.  Not even at a large scale at that


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## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Have you been reading rightwing blogs for so many years, that you can't recognize a news story that presents both sides of an issue?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are not as good at bullying as you think. Truth is, I read and comprehend better than you like, you might take a point there. 

When a company has a couple employees that cause problems, well blame the employees. When it's pervasive, well then look at the company. Not so hard, even a child like yourself should be able to get that.


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## Ravi (Oct 18, 2008)

del said:


>


 You've always been a bad influence on me.

If I haven't said it before, I'm glad you survived the diaspora. Now, if we could only get MT over here.


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## Valerie (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> You are not as good at bullying as you think. Truth is, I read and comprehend better than you like, you might take a point there.
> 
> When a company has a couple employees that cause problems, well blame the employees. When it's pervasive, well then look at the company. Not so hard, even a child like yourself should be able to get that.



What was childish or bullying about his post?  I think he makes good points.


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## Red Dawn (Oct 18, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> You are not as good at bullying as you think. Truth is, I read and comprehend better than you like, you might take a point there.
> 
> When a company has a couple employees that cause problems, well blame the employees. When it's pervasive, well then look at the company. Not so hard, even a child like yourself should be able to get that.



I'll assume from this response, that you have no proof that any more than a tiny handful of people have ever voted fraudulently. 

You cons have spent the last two months desparately bouncing back and forth between Wright, Ayers, Terrorist, ACORN, Muslim, Birth Certificates, yada yada. 

Aren't you embarrassed yet?


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## Ravi (Oct 18, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> Why don't you answer her question about providing a link where these people actually voted! You can register as Mickey Mouse but when you show up to vote you are either going to need a custome and a ID with your picture as Mickey Mouse, or really be Mickey Mouse!


She can't, Luissa, that would require introspection on her part and a willingness to admit to being wrong.


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## Chris (Oct 18, 2008)

Republicans will do anything to suppress votes including firing an Justice Department attorney who wouldn't suppress votes in New Mexico.


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## Contessa_Sharra (Oct 18, 2008)

Silence said:


> you can't be serious with this kath. Are you just as outraged at the efforts by the GOP regarding voter suppression? The DNC nor Obama have been using ACORN. Obama used an ACORN subsidiary during the primaries and since then has implemented his own get out the vote team which has proven far superior to that of ACORN.
> 
> I attended a voter registration training meeting for the Obama campaign and they gave STRICT instruction that everyone we registered had to show ou a valid ID otherwise the registration would be thrown out.
> 
> ...


 I am sure this detailed and logical explanation will go right over the kathitwits head. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE.  

Rather than being inclusive, and trying to make sure all CITIZENS vote, her sort does all it can to exclude. Guess that is why a McCain Palin rally looks, from a distance, like unbaked whitebread dough!!!!


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## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I'll assume from this response, that you have no proof that any more than a tiny handful of people have ever voted fraudulently.
> 
> You cons have spent the last two months desparately bouncing back and forth between Wright, Ayers, Terrorist, ACORN, Muslim, Birth Certificates, yada yada.
> 
> Aren't you embarrassed yet?



Hardly. How many posts have you made, how many myself? In entirety I'll trust my record of links and such to yours. Have a nice day.


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## cjcord (Oct 18, 2008)

edited because I'm late and wrong.


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## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

cjcord said:


> How many people have an Elvis Presley?
> 
> sorry...I couldn't help myself.



Not a problem, you are excused.


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## dilloduck (Oct 18, 2008)

Contessa_Sharra said:


> I am sure this detailed and logical explanation will go right over the kathitwits head. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE.
> 
> Rather than being inclusive, and trying to make sure all CITIZENS vote, her sort does all it can to exclude. Guess that is why a McCain Palin rally looks, from a distance, like unbaked whitebread dough!!!!



Since when is it anyone's job to make sure all citizens vote ?


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## Valerie (Oct 18, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Since when is it anyone's job to make sure all citizens vote ?



Isn't it more about making sure that U.S. citizens are not disenfranchised by the voting process?


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## Valerie (Oct 18, 2008)

cjcord said:


> edited because I'm late and wrong.



Dang, what did I miss?


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## dilloduck (Oct 18, 2008)

Valerie said:


> Isn't it more about making sure that U.S. citizens are not disenfranchised by the voting process?



I'm not sure what it's about anymore. I think both sides are trying to win and really don't care about the voters.


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## del (Oct 18, 2008)

Ravi said:


> You've always been a bad influence on me.
> 
> If I haven't said it before, I'm glad you survived the diaspora. Now, if we could only get MT over here.



aw, shucks. once you called me a typical con, i was head over heels.
i agree about MT

i'm glad we've crossed paths again, too, Q


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## Vintij (Oct 18, 2008)

Actually its easy to register under a fake name, it is kind of hard to vote under a fake name. You kind of have to have a real life social security number, usually they tend to give those to real life people.


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## frazzledgear (Oct 18, 2008)

rayboyusmc said:


> ACORN controversy: Voter fraud or mudslinging? - Yahoo! News



This isn't voter fraud -yet.  So far it is voter registration fraud and it is a felony to knowingly register fraudulently -or in the case of ACORN, to knowingly turn in fraudulent registrations.  So where is the "mudslinging" here when ACORN is under investigation by the FBI in 12-13 states for the felony of knowingly registering frauds?  No other voter registration organization in the country has anything even remotely close to the fraud rate of registrations that ACORN does.  NONE.  The fact that it is not yet voter fraud only because we haven't had the election yet doesn't change the fact it is still a felony.  ACORN's attempt to put some kind of "innocent" spin to their criminal activities is for people like you who are willing to believe anything your own side tells you to believe.  What ACORN has been doing in state after state -but ONLY in the battleground states -are real crimes.  

All you ACORN apologists -I'm pretty sure you would understand the gravity of these crimes and their potential for an even greater injustice - if it were some rightwing Republican organization pretending to be nonpartisan but used MILLIONS in taxpayer money to do all it could to get their guy into office -even if it meant committing felonies.  But it does beg the question why it requires getting your ox gored first before being able to comprehend the difference between right and wrong.  I don't care who is doing it -it is an attempt to fraudulently influence the outcome of an election!

While a few of the names like "Mickey Mouse" makes it unlikely anyone will attempt to vote using that name, most of the fraudulent registrations are not obvious frauds.  Can't be detected until they don't match up with the driver's license number or Social Security number.  Unless election law is enforced that prevents fraudulent voting, it DOES have the potential to result in a fraudulent outcome in the election.

In Ohio more than 200,000 fraudulent registrations have been turned in -and only a handful of them are clear fakes.  The Ohio Secretary of State was sued for not turning over to election officials in each county the list of names that do not match up with either the driver's license number or Social Security number -as she is required to do by federal election law.   The Supreme Court ruled that the RNC, which brought the suit -had no legal standing to file the suit.  They made no ruling about whether the Appeals Court was correct that the Ohio Sec'y of State was in violation of federal election law -as 16 different judges had ruled she was.  Now private citizens are filing suit against her with the state supreme court -where they do have legal standing.

So unless the Ohio Sec'y of State is forced to actually do her job, election officials in the state of Ohio have no way to weed out nearly all these fraudulent vote registrations and prevent people from voting under those names since if there appears to be a discrepancy at the polls at the time of voting - the benefit of the doubt is given to the individual.  In addition, absentee voting has already begun in Ohio and even with absentee ballots, these votes are being thrown into the hopper, and it is believed that MANY people from ACORN's phony registrations have already voted by absentee ballot.  Even if later proven to be fraudulent -there is no way to undo it and remove their vote.  Ohio does not separate out questionable qualified absentee votes from those of known qualified voters -so this stupid system the Democrat Sec'y of State endorses, in spite of 16 different judges ruling she is in violation of federal election law with it - only means if the other guy actually had the majority vote among qualified voters, he must have even MORE votes by far in order to offset the hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ones.  In close elections, ACORN wins.  And it is Americans who are the real losers.

More than 200,000 fraudulent registrations turned in by ACORN in Ohio alone.  And Bush won Ohio in 2000 and 2004 -by about 200,000 each time.  It appears ACORN intends the Republican can't win Ohio by that margin again.  As well as in EVERY SINGLE battleground state where roughly 1/3 of all their registrations are already very likely frauds.

You are either in favor of clean elections with only qualified voters casting their votes -or you prefer the system used in third world banana republics.  Personally I don't want ANY criminal enterprise like ACORN stripping the entire nation of their collective right to make this decision -and trying to inflict their own personal choice on us all.  And changing the political party of the person such an organization is trying to fraudulently help get elected doesn't change my opinion in the least.  It is wrong, it is a crime for which they should be punished and permanently stripped of EVER being eligible to receive another dime of taxpayer money again.  

ACORN is a criminal enterprise that receives MILLIONS in taxpayer dollars -and has received big bucks from Obama's campaign as well -more than $800,000 from Obama's campaign for their efforts on his behalf.  Anyone waiting for Obama to disavow the fraudulent tactics of ACORN will be waiting a long time.  Why would someone who came up through THE most corrupt political machine in the nation have a problem with this when its no different from typical Chicago elections where just as many dead people cast votes as do the living anyway?  Nothing different here for Obama.


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## Silence (Oct 18, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> yeah, its nothing
> 
> thats why ACORN has admitted guilt and paid fines
> yeah, sure



got a link to that?  I believe I've read they've fired those workers who fraudulently filled out registrations but I think I missed where ACORN admitted guilt for these workers and/or paid fines.


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## frazzledgear (Oct 18, 2008)

Chris said:


> Republicans will do anything to suppress votes including firing an Justice Department attorney who wouldn't suppress votes in New Mexico.



You mean you have an objection to when the Justice Department attorney in New Mexico refused to investigate election fraud as he was required and was fired for not doing so -even after discovering that employees of several Democrat state senators had paid people to fraudulently register to vote -which is a felony?  You consider that to be some kind of effort to "suppress" votes?  ROFLMAO!  Which vote is being "suppressed" by such an investigation?  

I fail to see how opposing voter and election fraud somehow benefits only Republicans as opposed to ALL legitimate voters when NONE of their voices should be diluted by fraudulent votes -unless you believe that Democrats are engaged in a lot of voter and election fraud in the first place and are actually HARMED unless voter and election fraud is ignored.  So I guess you believe a democratic republic should turn a blind eye to voter and election fraud regardless of the evidence -because not investigating that is something you think benefits YOUR political side.  Which says something really bad about you and those you support, doesn't it?


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## JimH52 (Oct 18, 2008)

ACORN controversy: Voter fraud or mudslinging? - Yahoo! News




> Voter fraud is rare in the United States, according to a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law. Based on reviews of voter fraud claims at the federal and state level, the center's report asserted most problems were caused by things like technological glitches, clerical errors or mistakes made by voters and by election officials.
> 
> "It is more likely that an individual will be struck by lightning than he will impersonate another voter at the polls," the report said.



Again, with no Swift Boat Liars, the GOP needs something to distract voters.


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## JimH52 (Oct 18, 2008)

With No Swift Boat Liars, the GOP is desperately searching for something to suppress the vote.


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## DiveCon (Oct 18, 2008)

JimH52 said:


> With No Swift Boat Liars, the GOP is desperately searching for something to suppress the vote.


first off, the Swiftvets didnt lie
second, thats utter bullshit


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## Chris (Oct 18, 2008)

frazzledgear said:


> You mean you have an objection to when the Justice Department attorney in New Mexico refused to investigate election fraud as he was required and was fired for not doing so -even after discovering that employees of several Democrat state senators had paid people to fraudulently register to vote -which is a felony?  You consider that to be some kind of effort to "suppress" votes?  ROFLMAO!  Which vote is being "suppressed" by such an investigation?
> 
> I fail to see how opposing voter and election fraud somehow benefits only Republicans as opposed to ALL legitimate voters when NONE of their voices should be diluted by fraudulent votes -unless you believe that Democrats are engaged in a lot of voter and election fraud in the first place and are actually HARMED unless voter and election fraud is ignored.  So I guess you believe a democratic republic should turn a blind eye to voter and election fraud regardless of the evidence -because not investigating that is something you think benefits YOUR political side.  Which says something really bad about you and those you support, doesn't it?



Their is a special prosecutor investigating the firing of the Justice Department attorneys.

The truth will come out, and some people in the Bush administration will go to jail.


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## frazzledgear (Oct 18, 2008)

Silence said:


> got a link to that?  I believe I've read they've fired those workers who fraudulently filled out registrations but I think I missed where ACORN admitted guilt for these workers and/or paid fines.



ACORN has agreed to pay $25,000 as the result of their "work" in just one county in Washington that included the city of Seattle.  7 employees in that one ACORN office, including the office supervisor, have already been charged with crimes, 3 already sentenced and one who was charged with voter fraud failed to appear in court and is now a wanted man.  Of a total of 1,805 registrations submitted by this single ACORN office -only NINE have been  confirmed as legitimate.  (Hard to claim ACORN has a fraud rate of 33% because those doing the registering committed these crimes on their own - when this one case shows the office supervisor is alleged to have been part of the scheme too.)

Further criminal charges and fines are expected as the result of the investigation into the Tacoma, WA branch of ACORN in the near future.

Voter-registration workers charged with submitting bogus registrations


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## Chris (Oct 18, 2008)

frazzledgear said:


> ACORN has agreed to pay $25,000 as the result of their "work" in just one county in Washington that included the city of Seattle.  7 employees in that one ACORN office, including the office supervisor, have already been charged with crimes, 3 already sentenced and one who was charged with voter fraud failed to appear in court and is now a wanted man.  Of a total of 1,805 registrations submitted by this single ACORN office -only NINE have been  confirmed as legitimate.  (Hard to claim ACORN has a fraud rate of 33% because those doing the registering committed these crimes on their own - when this one case shows the office supervisor is alleged to have been part of the scheme too.)
> 
> Further criminal charges and fines are expected as the result of the investigation into the Tacoma, WA branch of ACORN in the near future.
> 
> Voter-registration workers charged with submitting bogus registrations




This had nothing to do with voter fraud. It was a case of workers cheating their employer, ACORN....

From your own link....

But the scheme had nothing to do with an attempt to manipulate elections and everything to do with the workers' efforts to keep their $8-an-hour jobs, prosecutors said.

In fact, no votes were cast based on the more than 1,760 fraudulent registrations submitted by workers for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, interim Prosecutor Dan Satterberg said.

"The defendants ... cheated their employers to get paid for work they did not actually perform," Satterberg said. "The defendants simply realized that making up names was easier than actually canvassing the streets."


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## Red Dawn (Oct 18, 2008)

> So far it is voter registration fraud and it is a felony to knowingly register fraudulently -or in the case of ACORN, to knowingly turn in fraudulent registrations.



Wrong.  Its not illegal to turn in bogus registration cards.  

Its the law to turn in every registration card you have.  Whether they are legitimate, whether they have typos, whether somebody scrawled Mickey Mouse on it as a joke, or whether they were indeed frauduently filled out. 

You can't hold onto any registration card the state gives you.  You have to turn all of them in. 

All the reports are saying that ACORN flagged the ones they thought were bogus, and turned them over to the State.  Its the state's job to determine if the bogus ones were crimes, whether they were typos, or whether they were stupid practical jokes.   

In any organization as big as ACORN, there's going to be a few jerks they hire who turn in some bogus registration cards as a way of making a fast buck.  

There's never been a shred of evidence however, that any bogus card that was filled out for ACORN has turned into a fraudulent vote. 

Please post it if you have proof that a bogus registration card actually turned into a fraudulent voter turning up at the polls.


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## frazzledgear (Oct 18, 2008)

Chris said:


> Their is a special prosecutor investigating the firing of the Justice Department attorneys.
> 
> The truth will come out, and some people in the Bush administration will go to jail.



The truth has come out and no one will ever go to jail for it.  Strange how people like you would rather see someone investigated for firing someone who refused to investigate election fraud -then seeing those who committed that election fraud investigated.  Says a lot but nothing very good.

All Justice Department attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President and any of them can be fired at any time for NO CAUSE at all.  A President can fire as many as he wants and then give their jobs to attorneys he prefers for whatever reason.  The Supreme Court ruled years ago that the Attorney General is the President's agent and can act on his behalf in that regard.  Which means NO reason even need be given for that firing.  But the fact a reason was given doesn't mean he couldn't be fired anyway.  Gonzales says he refused to follow a direct order and was fired.  And the investigation shows that this attorney DID find evidence of voter fraud and then refused to carry out any further investigation.  In my book, refusing to follow the direct order alone is grounds for firing -even though no grounds at all are ever necessary for a Justice Dept. attorney to be fired.  That he refused even after already having found evidence of voter fraud makes it worse -for him.  

Did you demand an investigation when one of the first things Clinton did as President was fire all 33 Justice Department attorneys because he said he wanted "his" people all holding those jobs, something no President has EVER done -and even though doing so meant shutting down more than a few investigations Clinton didn't want to see reach any conclusions or result in any criminal charges against a couple of his buddies and the new attorneys ordered to drop those investigations?  Of course you didn't -entirely different in your book no doubt.


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## frazzledgear (Oct 18, 2008)

Chris said:


> This had nothing to do with voter fraud. It was a case of workers cheating their employer, ACORN....
> 
> From your own link....
> 
> ...



That was the official explanation by the national ACORN office -NOT what the prosecution says it is.  This worn-out excuse is ALWAYS what ACORN says to explain why of all voter registration drives in the nation only theirs has a sky high fraud rate that no other organization even comes close to.  Especially in the battleground states where enough fraudulent votes have the potential to change the legtimate outcome.

Funny ACORN has never claimed these people were threatened with losing their $8 hr. jobs unless they produced X number of registrations a day (because they weren't)-and since they weren't being paid on the basis of their registration production rate, *then the motivation to create phony ones doesn't even exist*.  In fact, the reason the office supervisor in the Seattle office was charged with voter fraud is that what was found on office computers led prosecutors to believe this was an office-wide and deliberate scheme and not a matter of a few people just trying to hang on to those jobs.  And oddly enough, of the 7 people charged  -it is the office supervisor making plenty more than $8 hr. who failed to show up in court and is now wanted on those felony charges.  And not so oddly enough, it was only after the computers in this office were seized that ACORN claimed the computers in a Boston office were "stolen".  I imagine plenty of other ACORN offices suddenly found themselves in need of new computers too.

You don't get to repeat ACORN's pathetic explanation and pretend that is what this really was -and in every single state where ACORN is under investigation for voter fraud.  Clearly this is a WIDESPREAD scheme and not the random acts of a few low paid employees who were never threatened with losing their jobs unless they produced X number of new registrations a day anyway.  Voter and election fraud is not based on whether they are actually successful at getting away with it -but for ATTEMPTING it.

In 2006 this same Washington branch of ACORN committed what Washington Secretary of State Sam Reed said at that time was the "worse case of election fraud" in the state's history.  That time, of the 1800 new registrations turned in, only SIX were found to be legitimate.  Maybe in your book it is some kind of improvement that this time around they had 9 legitimate ones out of 1805.  But that still leaves another 27,000 registrations from all Washington branches of ACORN "manufactured" just between January and July, 2008 that have been shown to be likely frauds as well.


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## Red Dawn (Oct 18, 2008)

frazzledgear said:


> That was the official explanation by the national ACORN office -*NOT* what the prosecution says it is. .



Wrong.



> SEATTLE TIMES:  King and Pierce County prosecutors filed felony charges today against seven people who allegedly committed the biggest voter-registration fraud in state history.
> 
> The defendants, who were paid employees and supervisors of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, _concocted the scheme as an easy way to get paid,_ not as an attempt to influence the outcome of elections, *King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said.*
> 
> Local News | Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud | Seattle Times Newspaper




I really wish you Bush voters would get your information from somewhere besides Limbaugh and Hannity.  

I've been telling you for days that the voter _registration_ fraud cases involved workers who were looking to make a fast buck.  *There was no election fraud*, nor was their any intent to cast fraudulent votes. 

Guess what?  When you hire hundreds of people for 8 bucks an hour, a few of them are going to potentially fill out bogus registration cards with fake names, in order to get paid some fast bucks. 

You republicans were fooled by WMD in Iraq, you were fooled by George Bush, and you were fooled by Dick Cheney. 

Once again, you're barking up the wrong tree at best, and lying at worst.   Rush Limbaugh has really misled you.  Its what he does.


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## Annie (Oct 18, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In this case it was from the Seattle Times, but lying sits better with you, right?


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## frazzledgear (Oct 18, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh I guess that means that hasn't been ACORN's official explanation for their widespread scheme when investigation in state after state was announced.  LOL  It is what ACORN always says.  But it fails to explain why the Seattle office supervisor was charged with felony voter fraud although not an $8 hour employee sent on the street to register voters.  

All while you ignore the real problem with this cheesy excuse.  None of these people were being paid on the basis of how many people they registered -they were paid by the hour.  Even ACORN says none were threatened with being fired unless they produced X number of registrations.  And without that basis -there is no MOTIVATION for fraudulently manufacturing literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of fraudulent registration forms in state after state.  That excuse fails to explain this, much less explain the sheer magnitude of it.

It also fails to explain why of all voter registration drive organizations, ONLY this one has a sky high fraud rate and no others anywhere close to it.

This was not election fraud -it was voter fraud.  And whether it is successful or not does NOT determine whether it was a crime.  The ATTEMPT is a crime.  Just because some other entity or person foils the attempt by detecting these ACORN manufactured registrations doesn't remove the criminal element -which is why the supervisor was charged with felony voter fraud and was the only one who skipped out on the court date and is now wanted for flight to avoid prosecution in addition to that felony count.  It isn't thanks to ACORN this so far hasn't resulted in election fraud in the past.  Thanks to ACORN which outdid itself this time around, the odds of it being successful in one of the battleground states where the greatest level of fraudulent registration took place in preparation for THIS election -has increased.  If someone tries to kill you time and again and just because they haven't yet been successful at bumping you off -do you think that means the state shouldn't take it seriously until they finally do?


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## frazzledgear (Oct 18, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Wrong.  Its not illegal to turn in bogus registration cards.
> 
> Its the law to turn in every registration card you have.  Whether they are legitimate, whether they have typos, whether somebody scrawled Mickey Mouse on it as a joke, or whether they were indeed frauduently filled out.
> 
> ...




1.  Actually individuals can tear up their own registration cards and are not required to turn those back over to whoever is running the voter registration drive.  ACORN is only required to turn in those that were filled out by someone ELSE and given to them.  But that isn't what is being discussed here.  *We are talking about ACORN manufacturing those phony ones THEMSELVES and then turning them in KNOWING they are phony.*  It is a felony to knowingly turn in fake voter registration forms.  Since they created them in the first place, they would certainly KNOW they are fake. The MASSIVE numbers involved while no other voter drive organization in the nation has anywhere close to this fraud rate proves it is NOT a matter of a "few jerks" who did this -but is a widespread scheme.  

2.  According to what "all" reports did ACORN flag their own phony registrations?  Because that is NOT true in the least.  Every investigation in every state where ACORN is suspected of voter registration fraud it is either because of the sheer numbers CAUGHT by the state or because of repeated complaints by citizens of ACORN's activities of using bribery, pressure and coercion to get individuals to falsely register.   You seriously think they are going to flag their own phony creations?  LOL

3.  Voter fraud is not a crime only when it is successfully committed -it is a crime to ATTEMPT it as well.  Just because it is foiled by the state doesn't remove the criminal element here.  Voter registration fraud increases the potential of fraudulent votes on election day in those states with less than efficient means of weeding them out -such as exists in Ohio right now.  

It doesn't matter whether or not voter fraud is successfully used on election day or not.  Fraudulent voter registrations means it is being attempted.  And NOW because so many states have decided that if any discrepancy exists on election day, the individual is given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to vote with their votes not even set aside until it can be determined they are a qualified voter -any such fraudulent votes will be in the system.  Their votes will be cast and counted -and with no way of  removing them.  

*You don't stop election fraud on election day -you stop it with the registration process itself.*


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## SpidermanTuba (Oct 19, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> Once again the press going to an ACORN ally in attempt to discount legitimate requests for oversight.



They aren't legitimate. Total factual evidence that ACORN is conspiring to commit voter fraud = ZERO. You seriously think Obama and ACORN sat down together and decided to register a bunch of Mickey Mouses and Donald Ducks to win the election? And I guess all the election workers are either incredible stupid or in on the conspiracy.


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## sealybobo (May 2, 2018)

Annie said:


> Current story on Yahoo! News Home:
> 
> ACORN controversy: Voter fraud or mudslinging? - Yahoo! News
> 
> ...


A Republican Convicted Of Election Fraud Had VIP Access To Trump's Michigan Rally | HuffPost

Hall’s level of access is notable given the Trump administration’s focus on voter fraud, which several analyses have shown is not a widespread problem. Trump claims that between three and five million people voted illegally in the 2016 election, but has offered no evidence to support that claim. In April, he dismissed the idea that voter fraud was a conspiracy theory, saying “in many places, like California, the same person votes many times, you probably heard about that.” 

In 2012, Brandon Hall forged signatures to get a judicial candidate on the ballot in Ottawa County, Michigan. He was convicted of 10 counts of election fraud and sentenced in 2016 to 30 days in jail and 18 months probation. He is still serving the probation portion of his sentence.


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## Dan Stubbs (May 10, 2018)

Ravi said:


> It's not just AP. Newspapers across the country have been skeptical about the trumped up charges against ACORN. Not to mention, most of us know that Bush's attorneys general got fired last time around because they couldn't find any evidence of voter fraud.
> 
> Hell, my own Republican Gov, Charlie Crist, even pointed out that the GOP was full of shit on this.
> 
> ...


*You should look at the Chicago votes, there are a lot of dead people who voted in the Obama election as normal.  Who knows how many W backs and Sheet heads voted that were not citizens.  *


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## Dan Stubbs (May 10, 2018)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Kathianne said:
> 
> 
> > Once again the press going to an ACORN ally in attempt to discount legitimate requests for oversight.
> ...


*I liked the workers at a Mental inst, who assisted the inmates to vote.  That was kind of them to help them with their voting rights.*


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## Muhammed (May 10, 2018)

Ravi said:


> It's not just AP. Newspapers across the country have been skeptical about the trumped up charges against ACORN. Not to mention, most of us know that Bush's attorneys general got fired last time around because they couldn't find any evidence of voter fraud.


If no evidence of voter fraud was found, then why did they plead guilty?


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2022)

Annie said:


> You twit, they are just showing one side. While trying to paint 'hate' on the other side, when the concern is undermining our electoral system.



Mark Meadows Was Simultaneously Registered To Vote In 3 Different States​Donald Trump's top aide was registered to vote in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia — all while promoting lies that the 2020 election was rigged.

This is why you guys were so sure we were cheating.  Because YOU were cheating and probably getting away with it.  

But we don't have homes in 3 different states.  Rich Republicans do.


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## sealybobo (Apr 22, 2022)

Trump encourages supporters to try to vote twice, sparking uproar
					

President Donald Trump has urged residents in the critical political battleground of North Carolina to try to vote twice in the Nov. 3 election, once by mail and once in person, igniting a furor for appearing to urge a potential act of voter fraud.




					www.reuters.com


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