# Who Is Occupying Who's Land?



## MJB12741 (Sep 2, 2014)

The argument goes on.  So let's see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Let the truth be known to all.

King Solomon s Temple - First Jewish Temple


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## montelatici (Sep 2, 2014)

The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.


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## deltex1 (Sep 2, 2014)

Everyone stole everyone else's land at one time or another.  If they are strong enough to keep it, they keep it.  If not they lose it.  Shut up and deal.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 2, 2014)

This kind of thread title is about as honest as asking "Was it really only Chinese that were killed in Auschwitz?"


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## Beelzebub (Sep 2, 2014)

deltex1 said:


> Everyone stole everyone else's land at one time or another.  If they are strong enough to keep it, they keep it.  If not they lose it.  Shut up and deal.




That logic says that the Palestinians have every right to fight and agitate to get the land back.
So what are you complaining about?


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## Phoenall (Sep 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.





 They are descendants of the Jews of the Diaspora and have as much right to live there as the Jews that stayed. On top of this they were invited to migrate, settle and own the land by first the Ottomans and then the LoN legal and rightful owners of the land of Palestine. The arab muslim Palestinians had not owned or controlled the land for over 1000 years.


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## Phoenall (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> This kind of thread title is about as honest as asking "Was it really only Chinese that were killed in Auschwitz?"






 Not at all as it shows the truth about who has the greater legal right to the land, and the reasons why this is so.

 Only those who don't see that this is the case know that they have no case to put forward


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## Phoenall (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> deltex1 said:
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> > Everyone stole everyone else's land at one time or another.  If they are strong enough to keep it, they keep it.  If not they lose it.  Shut up and deal.
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 So when did they last own the land legally under Customary International Law ?


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## Beelzebub (Sep 2, 2014)

First, you prove that the dead in Auschwitz were not all Chinese, not using any sources that I disagree with.


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## deltex1 (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> deltex1 said:
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Yo Beez...the Palestinians are not fighting, they are dying.  Hamas is fighting...Hamas is terror.  They aren't fighting to get land back.  They only want to kill Jews.  It's time Bibi wiped them off the face of the earth.
,


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## Phoenall (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> First, you prove that the dead in Auschwitz were not all Chinese, not using any sources that I disagree with.






 Don't need to do any such thing, as you will deny any source given. There is no source that will support the arab muslims claim as they cant produce any evidence of ownership. This was due to the greed and cowardice of the arab muslims when asked to submit land claims by the Ottomans and British. In doing so they would have to pay taxes and be eligible for conscription, so they ignored the instruction and are now paying the price.

 Once again the Palestinians are not slow in missing the chance to miss the chance.


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## Daniyel (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> deltex1 said:
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Their right to fight, their fighting methods, and their lies.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 2, 2014)

deltex1 said:


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Can we start to monitor these calls to genocide?
I think when we have a bag full, the question should be asked, is it legal to actually call for such things?
Both international law and national laws are likely to not permit them.

Of course, basic human decency does not permit them either, but most Zionists have long abandoned basic human decency.


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## Daniyel (Sep 2, 2014)

Against all odds, you are wrong again @Beelzebub, no calls for Genocide made except 'Itbah el Yahud' by the elected government of Gaza, illegal indeed.


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## deltex1 (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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Stop the bullshit Beez...exterminating a terror group is not genocide..it is God's work.


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## Darkwind (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> deltex1 said:
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Of course they have a right to fight. 

What they do not have is a right to hide behind children and women and quarter military assets inside civilian neighborhoods or homes.

Those acts are international crimes.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 2, 2014)

They don't hide.  According to the IDF they know where they are.

Those are not shields.  The IDF prove that by shooting straight through them.

Oddly, there are usually no resistance fighters behind them.  Which is why Israel kills civilians to fighters in a proportion of about 6 to 1.


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## Daniyel (Sep 2, 2014)

"Hiding" is a temporarily status.
You can hide behind a bolder or you can hide behind a concealing object, the Pally government hide behind their civilians, a mental bolder.


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## Darkwind (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> They don't hide.  According to the IDF they know where they are.
> 
> Those are not shields.  The IDF prove that by shooting straight through them.
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> Oddly, there are usually no resistance fighters behind them.  Which is why Israel kills civilians to fighters in a proportion of about 6 to 1.


Of course they're hiding.  I never said they were any good at it.

The entire purpose of the 'skirts strategy' is to generate outrage.  Hamas lacks the intestinal fortitude to actually meet the Israelis either head on, or at least in a time honored guerrilla fashion in which they strike and retreat to military encampments.

Instead, they throw the skirts of their mothers over their heads and tremble is fear until the big bad Joo strides on by and then return to throwing their impotent rage against a missile shield in the hopes of killing some of the Joos children.

But such is the mentality (if one could be said to give them credit for having mental thought processes) of a Hamas coward.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 2, 2014)

Israel shoots at women, children, babies and civilians men because it wants to kill them and terrorise the survivors.

Killing Hamas is incidental to Israel when everyone in Gaza knows how all of Israel would happily destroy them, and does so to whatever calculations say the international community will stomach.

Every Hamas member killed creates four more recruits.
Killing Hamas doesn't even work for Israel's public objectives.


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## Daniyel (Sep 2, 2014)

Israel doesn't.
The Palestinian government shoot women, children, babies, and civilians men because it wants to kill them and terrorize the non-Jews survivors just like IS does in Iraq, everybody knows that.
Every Hamas member killed is one less threat to 3.5+ million Israelis, and even to the Palestinians, Israel carried incredible pin point assassinations of the Hamas high command, and destroyed 90% of Hamas efforts over the past 12 years.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 2, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> Israel doesn't.
> The Palestinian government shoot women, children, babies, and civilians men because it wants to kill them and terrorize the non-Jews survivors just like IS does in Iraq, everybody knows that.
> Every Hamas member killed is one less threat to 3.5+ million Israelis, and even to the Palestinians, Israel carried incredible pin point assassinations of the Hamas high command, and destroyed 90% of Hamas efforts over the past 12 years.



The Palestinians should thank Allah that Israel doesn't just massacre them by the tens of thousands like their own Arab brothers did to them in surrounding Arab countries.  Israel sure has the capability but those Zionists still lack the desire.  Let us hope Hamas continues on to change Israel's thinking about that.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


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## teddyearp (Sep 2, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> This kind of thread title is about as honest as asking "Was it really only Chinese that were killed in Auschwitz?"


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## teddyearp (Sep 2, 2014)

While I agree with the jist of this thread, I see no merit in it solving the current conflict(s).


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## MJB12741 (Sep 3, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Beelzebub said:
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> > This kind of thread title is about as honest as asking "Was it really only Chinese that were killed in Auschwitz?"


To solve the conflict, Israel must find a way to remove the Palestinian squatters off the land. Problem is that no surrounding Arab country, who know the Paletinians best, will grant them a right of return back to their native homelands.


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## Indeependent (Sep 3, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Israel shoots at women, children, babies and civilians men because it wants to kill them and terrorise the survivors.
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> Killing Hamas is incidental to Israel when everyone in Gaza knows how all of Israel would happily destroy them, and does so to whatever calculations say the international community will stomach.
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It's the effort that counts.

According to your logic, the Palestinians must be exterminated.


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## member (Sep 3, 2014)

*"WHO ISOCCUPYING WHO'S LAND*"​ 







it's the only one that's habitable....hopefully SOON,   






 *"let there be peace already..."*


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## Grendelyn (Sep 3, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> The argument goes on.  So let's see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Let the truth be known to all.
> 
> King Solomon s Temple - First Jewish Temple



_The Canaanites originally owned this land as Jewish biblical b.s. tells us that they did.  Canaanites intermarried with whomever, including, eventually, Arabs who were willing to do so unlike Sephardic Jews who were not and least of all Ashkenazi Jews, who were also not willing to marry (breed with) Canaanites (in fear of Yahweh telling them not to do so), who were out to hoodwink everyone into believing that they were a lost tribe of Jews that held title to this land above all others <guffaw>.  The moral of my tale is that Arabs, intermarrying with Canaanites, are the ones holding clear title to this land . . . all others are opportunists trying to convince others otherwise for their own personal gain.  ~ Susan_


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## Indeependent (Sep 3, 2014)

So the part of the Bible you believe is the part you WANT to believe.
Got it!


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## Grendelyn (Sep 3, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> So the part of the Bible you believe is the part you WANT to believe.
> Got it!




_No, Zionist, I'm out to fight fire with fire by showing to the board, that your religious claim to this land, based on your biblical scripture, is pure b.s.  Whether slitting the throats of innocents or bombing them is all the same . . . both thoroughly disgust me, you filthy,dirty rotten, hoodwinking creeps, for your own personal gain, you._


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## Indeependent (Sep 3, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


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Your large font and bad grammar isn't helping.


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## Grendelyn (Sep 3, 2014)

Indeependent said:


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_Bad grammar, you say?  Nonsense . . . parse my sentences if you wish to embarrass yourself._


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## Indeependent (Sep 3, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


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I shouldn't HAVE to parse your sentences.
They make no sense anyway as the Middle East, like the rest of the Eastern Word, has had war induced massive map changes since the beginning of civilization.
But I'm expecting you to know that?


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## Grendelyn (Sep 3, 2014)

Indeependent said:


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_<Eye Roll>  You, like all below average idiots, are unable to prove what you claim to be true.  Off with you now, Zionist. . . shoo, shoo . . . to plot and scheme against those whose land, even more of, you still now wish to steal. _


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## Indeependent (Sep 3, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


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The gift that keeps on giving...


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## Hossfly (Sep 3, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


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You seem worse than ever, Pishy.  You repeat things like you were a robot who was put in the closet several years back and that now has been let out to repeat the same old things.  This time, however, you sound like you have gone off your rocker trying to be like a drama queen.  Still rolling those eyes, Pishy, like they mean anything important to the readers except to show how dramatic you are.  Hmm, wonder if you roll your eyes at that Stormfront crowd.  They must have loved reading that question and answer session between you and that old Nazi.


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## Forester (Sep 4, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> You seem worse than ever, Pishy.  You repeat things like you were a robot who was put in the closet several years back and that now has been let out to repeat the same old things.  This time, however, you sound like you have gone off your rocker trying to be like a drama queen.  Still rolling those eyes, Pishy, like they mean anything important to the readers except to show how dramatic you are.  Hmm, wonder if you roll your eyes at that Stormfront crowd.  They must have loved reading that question and answer session between you and that old Nazi.



Yeah sure. Always back to the Stormfront "line" of crap. Dragging people into your mud pit with you. Grow up.


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## Rehmani (Sep 4, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> The argument goes on.  So let's see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Let the truth be known to all.
> 
> King Solomon s Temple - First Jewish Temple


Dose it change the realty on ground?
Who was Solomon? Why Jewish abandoned the Temple and Left? OR are you really Jewish? and if you are then why Jewish abandoned the Temple? 
Jewish are Bani Israel or Bani Israel are Jewish?

Facts are that you are not Prime kind( sh....t like every one dose ) among the mankind and no Masaya is coming. The fact is that Master of Jewish community using jews as slave by using these slogans"prime and masaya" which are baseless stories.

To take my advise give up the silly ideas and complete the line of prophets and live like a normal human being and world would be beautiful if jews turn there energy to this side of the picture instead.


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## Rehmani (Sep 4, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> Israel doesn't.
> The Palestinian government shoot women, children, babies, and civilians men because it wants to kill them and terrorize the non-Jews survivors just like IS does in Iraq, everybody knows that.
> Every Hamas member killed is one less threat to 3.5+ million Israelis, and even to the Palestinians, Israel carried incredible pin point assassinations of the Hamas high command, and destroyed 90% of Hamas efforts over the past 12 years.


Why Daniyal making fool to yourself, whole world know that israel built on occupied Palestinian territory, why are you lying, what do you want from this kind of nonsense. Do you think you will change the facts about Palestinian.

Take my advise and give up the silly idea that jews are prime kind or masaya is coming. 
You are slave of yours elders, who are using these slogans "prime or masaya" and making you fool please join the rest of world and make the world peace full instead.


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## Daniyel (Sep 4, 2014)

Rehmani said:


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Said the one 5, 100, 000. PALESTIANS WAS KILLED BY ISRAEL SINCE 1948!


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> The argument goes on.  So let's see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Let the truth be known to all.
> 
> King Solomon s Temple - First Jewish Temple


Idiot.....the FIRST Temple was built by the Canaanites at Salem(Jerusalem) long before the Jews found this area and then destroyed these people........SO THIS IS THE TRUTH<YOU FOOL.


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Rehmani said:


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Because he is a Zionist Jew and an Idiot.....He is NOT representative of Jewish people in any way...that's why


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## Daniyel (Sep 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
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No they didnt, they were pagans who built altars all over the region (before Jerusalem was founded) , the two main buildings (holy temples) were built by Jews and later on others came by.


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## Daniyel (Sep 4, 2014)

theliq said:


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And here I am, thanks.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 4, 2014)

Indeependent said:


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No.

According to my logic, Israel by making peace can achieve peace.  It can never achieve peace through making war.
If Israel kills every last Palestinian, others will come for Israel.


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## Politico (Sep 4, 2014)

deltex1 said:


> Everyone stole everyone else's land at one time or another.  If they are strong enough to keep it, they keep it.  If not they lose it.  Shut up and deal.


That.


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## Phoenall (Sep 4, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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 The UN charter that the P.A. signed up to forbids even having such as part of a nations charter, so why hasn't the UN taken action against the Palestinians  ?


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## Beelzebub (Sep 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> The UN charter that the P.A. signed up to forbids even having such as part of a nations charter, so why hasn't the UN taken action against the Palestinians  ?




You are more confused, Phoney, than a dizzy goat, on a mountain, in fog.


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## Phoenall (Sep 4, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> They don't hide.  According to the IDF they know where they are.
> 
> Those are not shields.  The IDF prove that by shooting straight through them.
> 
> Oddly, there are usually no resistance fighters behind them.  Which is why Israel kills civilians to fighters in a proportion of about 6 to 1.





Read the Geneva conventions that state the Palestinians that act as human shields then become militia and valid military targets.  The ratio is actually 1500 terrorists to 1 civilian if you look at the al Jazeera lists. Of course there are no resistance fighters behind the human shields they are too cowardly to stand still and will be hidden well away from the targets. ( by the way human shields only work when you use prisoners, when you use your own they cease to be civilians )


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## Phoenall (Sep 4, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Israel shoots at women, children, babies and civilians men because it wants to kill them and terrorise the survivors.
> 
> Killing Hamas is incidental to Israel when everyone in Gaza knows how all of Israel would happily destroy them, and does so to whatever calculations say the international community will stomach.
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 You really need to read the Geneva conventions and the UN charter to see how far of the mark you are. Once the civilians take an active role in the fighting they are no longer civilians but legitimate military targets.


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## Phoenall (Sep 4, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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 Israel has tried this since 1948 and the Palestinians have refused to talk,   so what has changed all of a sudden to make you talk such rubbish. What are the Palestinians doing towards a just and mutual peace deal ?


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## Phoenall (Sep 4, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Phoenall said:
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 No as the UN charter forbids all out war or gearing up to all out war which the hamas and PLO charters both have written in them.


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Daniyel said:


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Such an IDIOT......


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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YAWN


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

w





Phoenall said:


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Idiot.

Israel has been in close talks with Hamas for months.....Watch this Space


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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You Moron


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## deltex1 (Sep 4, 2014)

theliq said:


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Your space is empty, Mohammed...like your head.


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Daniyel said:


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How's downtown Tel Aviv,at the moment Danny boy


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

deltex1 said:


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Silly comment David the disgrace.......


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Daniyel said:


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No, like your mind you are wrong as usual........how ignorant that you have so little Grasp of Israelite history......


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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So you know nothing about the OSLO accord......Mr Rabin the Israeli Prime Minister and Yasser Arafat..Dear me,something else that you don't know.....maybe it is that you ASSASINATED Mr Rabin the "Good Jew" not so long afterwards.......NO WONDER YOU WISH TO FORGET......You Loony Jew


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## Indeependent (Sep 4, 2014)

theliq said:


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The pot calling the kettle black.


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## theliq (Sep 4, 2014)

Indeependent said:


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NO Black Kettle me,just the White Knight as usual...educating the brains of the ignorant.....if the scull CAP FITS, WEAR IT.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 4, 2014)

theliq said:


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Theliq, where ya been old buddy & how ya doin?  Hey uh, would you be so kind as to send us a link on those "Canaanite Temples"  you refer to so we can educate those Zionists to the truth?  'Atta boy!


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## Hossfly (Sep 4, 2014)

Forester said:


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> > You seem worse than ever, Pishy.  You repeat things like you were a robot who was put in the closet several years back and that now has been let out to repeat the same old things.  This time, however, you sound like you have gone off your rocker trying to be like a drama queen.  Still rolling those eyes, Pishy, like they mean anything important to the readers except to show how dramatic you are.  Hmm, wonder if you roll your eyes at that Stormfront crowd.  They must have loved reading that question and answer session between you and that old Nazi.
> ...


Not so, Jim. Pishy is a Stormfront contributor along with her paramour, the Canadian Nazi.You are clueless.


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## Daniyel (Sep 4, 2014)

theliq said:


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Nope, I'm not a global history expert or something like it, but the local history is something you learn in addition to bible like 6-7 years? Some specialize it.
The information is also free to everyone, and I'm sorry to upset you but you're wrong again.
PS just back from the Carmel Mountains, on my way to Tel Aviv probably to go out with my friends so stay tuned!


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## Rehmani (Sep 5, 2014)

Daniyel said:


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Daniyal, tell us how much do you earn from these nonsense, sound like paid.


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## Rehmani (Sep 5, 2014)

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Yes Daniyal you are proving that you are paid agent.


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## RoccoR (Sep 5, 2014)

Rehmani,  _et al,_

I'm a bit confused in what you are saying here.



Rehmani said:


> whole world know that israel built on occupied Palestinian territory,


*(QUESTION)*

Israel (proper) is that land generally considered and described as within the 1967 Borders.

Are you saying that Israel (proper) is on Palestinian Territory?

*(COMMENT)*


I don't think the whole world knows that at all.

Israel was initially established under the criteria of the UN General Assembly, pursuant to the "Step Preparatory to Independence."  The UK relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces in a pre-planned orderly withdrawal. On the same day, the Jewish Agency declared Independence and establishment of the State of Israel on the territory originally allotted to it by the partition plan, as coordinated with the UN Palestine Commission (as the successor to the UK). Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, the Armed Forces of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory under the deceptive guise to assist the Arab Palestinians.

By the time of the Armistice Arrangements, Israel controlled much of the territory allotted to the Arab State by the partition resolution, including the western part of Jerusalem. Egypt and Jordan respectively controlled the remaining portions of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank _(which included East Jerusalem, with its walled Old City)_.

The armistice agreements were signed between Israel _(representing the new Jewish State)_ and four of the bordering Arab States _(Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria)_. The agreements, which were all similar in general content, made clear that the purpose of the armistice was not to establish or recognize any territorial, custodial or other rights, claims or interests of any party.  In point of fact, the Arab Palestinians were not even a party to any Armistice Agreement.

The State of Palestine and its territory is actually first recognized in the UN Resolution (A/RES/43/177) where it _Acknowledges _the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988; and _Affirms _the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967; that would be the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and parts of Jerusalem.

While treaties between Israel and the Arab States of Jordan (1994) and Egypt (1979) were created, _without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank_, the Arab Palestinians were not parties to the treaties which established permanent international boundaries between Israel and the States of Jordan and Egypt.

It is in the Oslo Accords, that the jurisdiction of the Arab Palestinians is defined.

So I ask,

What is the permanent population of the Arab Palestinian?
What is the defined territory of the Arab Palestinian?
What does the government of the Arab Palestinian have effective control over?
What capacity to enter into relations with the other states does the Arab Palestinian claim to have?
Most Respectfully,
R


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## Phoenall (Sep 5, 2014)

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 Not a Jew old boy, but a Christian.   I know about the oslo accords and how part of them was the disengagement of Israel from gaza with the removal of all Jews in return for all acts of belligerence, violence and terrorism to stop at the same time. So why in August 2005 when ISRAEL implemented the Oslo accords did the Palestinians increase the numbers and rate of fire of the terrorist rockets.

 So I ask again what has Palestine actually DONE towards a just and mutual peace ................. You Loony Muslim


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## MJB12741 (Sep 5, 2014)

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Israel made a lasting peace with both Egypt & Jordan,  Who have the Palestinians ever made peace with?


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## Hossfly (Sep 5, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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> ...





MJB12741 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


Well, in the past 48 hours they joined ISIS.That should count for making peace.


----------



## SixFoot (Sep 5, 2014)

Darkwind said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > deltex1 said:
> ...



Don't stop after 25,000 this time.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 5, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Only Jordan knew how to achieve a lasting peace from Palestinians.  And all it took was around 20,000 dead Palestinians.  Looks like Israel still has a long way to go for peace from Palestinians.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 5, 2014)

How many dead Palestinians will it take?  Seems to me that at some point Palestinians should learn the first law of the hole.  When you're already in one --- Stop Digging!


----------



## Rehmani (Sep 6, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Rehmani,  _et al,_
> 
> I'm a bit confused in what you are saying here.
> 
> ...


The whole story as you described above is made by the Masters who control the world before W


RoccoR said:


> Rehmani,  _et al,_
> 
> I'm a bit confused in what you are saying here.
> 
> ...


The whole story as you described above is made by the Masters, who control the world before WWII, in the result of WWII Master gave the world UNO so as Jewish got Israel, so as world changed after WWII, World can be change again by the different Master. This is what history tell us and always repeat, so please don't tell us what suit to you be real. Let's talk about your question!
1) What is the permanent population of the Arab Palestine?
Jordanian,Lebanese,Palestinian and Palestinian Christian including Arab Jewish are part of UNITED PALESTINE population, you can not beat the numbers and you can not change the facts. Be Real.
2) What is the defined territory of The Arab Palestine?
The Palestine was one combined state under OTTOMAN EMPIRE before WWII, including JORDAN,LEBANON,JERUSALEM(Baitulmuqadas) including Invader Israel and invaded territories of UNITED PALESTINE. You can not change the facts to making your own story, be real, good for sole and body.
3) What does the government of the Arab Palestinian have effective control over?
4) What capacity to enter into relation with the others states does the Arab Palestinian claim to have?
You got answer of question 3/4 in Question 2. Be real you can not change the facts by dividing the Palestine and people of Palestine and same time you can not beat the numbers, even though Jewish consider themselves master in numbers, in my point of view only good in counting money nothing else.

CHANGE YOURSELVES, FREE YOURSELVES FROM YOUR ELDERS THEY ARE USING YOU BY TELLING YOU THAT MASAYA IS COMING AND YOU ARE ESPECIAL KIND AMONG THE MANKIND.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 6, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


YEP!  Palestinians for peace join ISIS.  Just another example of Palestinian mentality at its best.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/11/palestinian_from_gaz.php


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 6, 2014)

@Rehmani,  et al,

Let the examination begin!



Rehmani said:


> Let's talk about your question!
> 
> 1) What is the permanent population of the Arab Palestine?
> 
> Jordanian,Lebanese,Palestinian and Palestinian Christian including Arab Jewish are part of UNITED PALESTINE population, you can not beat the numbers and you can not change the facts. Be Real.


*(COMMENT)*

Hummm:  The United Palestine

I wasn't trying to beat numbers --- heavens no!   The Palestinian Refugee Numbers are the only refugees that actually grew in size.  What I was asking is how the Palestinians define themselves?  What distinguishes them from other populations?



Rehmani said:


> 2) What is the defined territory of The Arab Palestine?
> 
> The Palestine was one combined state under OTTOMAN EMPIRE before WWII, including JORDAN,LEBANON,JERUSALEM(Baitulmuqadas) including Invader Israel and invaded territories of UNITED PALESTINE. You can not change the facts to making your own story, be real, good for sole and body.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, this is not a fact.

Palestine was an undefined area under the Ottoman Empire; territory under the greater governmental region of Syria.  In the post-WWI Era, Palestine had to be defined by the Allied Powers; and was defined to mean "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies."  Palestine was, in effect, not defined by either the Arab or the Palestinian, but "within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers."

References:

The Palestine Order in Council, 1922
The Treaty of Sevres, 1920
In fact, it should be noted that the Hostile Arab Palestinian, that claims all of Palestine, more often than not, defines Palestine in reference to the boundaries established by the Allied Powers, as determined by Syke-Picot Agreement (1916) and further subdivided by the Mandatory Powers.  Palestine is directly mentioned in the Treaty of Sevres, but not mentioned once in the Treaty of Peace with Turkey Signed at Lausanne, July 24, 1923.  

Oddly enough, during the Ottoman Empire Era, Gaza was a Sanjak (District) of the Damascus Eyalet (Province), Syria - Ottoman Empire. Its administrative center was Gaza City.  What the Palestinians call "Palestine," as the former territory under Mandate, is more correctly called the former Sanjak of Gaza.

Today (A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012), the UN _Recalls also_ its resolution 43/177 of 15 December 1988, by which it, inter alia, acknowledged the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988 and decided that the *designation “Palestine”* should be used in place of the designation “Palestine Liberation Organization” in the United Nations system, without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system; referring to the territory occupied since 1967.  Thus, for the first time since the Palestine Order in Council (1922), the meaning of "Palestine" has changed FROM: are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine --- TO:  the territory occupied since 1967.



Rehmani said:


> 3) What does the government of the Arab Palestinian have effective control over?


*(COMMENT)*

Prior to the establishment and recognition that the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people in any Palestinian territory that is liberated, by Resolution at the Seventh Arab Summit, Rabat, Morocco 28 october 1974, there was no recognized government for Palestine.  The Palestinians in the West Bank had, through their "right of self-determination," approved Annexation into the Hashemite Kingdom in 1950.  And the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian Occupation until 1967.  In 1967, the Egyptian Occupation was pushed-out of Gaza, and the Jordanian Forces were forced back across the Jordan River.  In 1988, the HM the King of Jordan, dissolved the Annexation of the West Bank, and the PLO, using the "right of self-determination" again, declared Independence.

As we move forward in time to the present, we see that today, the UN _Acknowledges _the proclamation of the State of Palestine (Insert 

 A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988) by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988; and _Affirms _*the need to enable* the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967 (A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988).  



Rehmani said:


> 4) What capacity to enter into relation with the others states does the Arab Palestinian claim to have?
> You got answer of question 3/4 in Question 2. Be real you can not change the facts by dividing the Palestine and people of Palestine and same time you can not beat the numbers, even though Jewish consider themselves master in numbers, in my point of view only good in counting money nothing else.​


*(COMMENT)*

Central to the theme of "entering into relations with other states" (Article 1d,_ Montevideo Treaty which discusses the definition, rights and rights of statehood)_ is the concepts behind the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.



Every State has the *duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State*, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, *such as armistice lines*, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.
1.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_Condemns_ all forms of propaganda, in whatsoever country conducted, which is either designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression; [A/RES/2/110 (1947)]

5. Declares that acts, methods, and practices of terrorism are contrary to the
purposes and principles of the United Nations and that knowingly financing,
planning and inciting terrorist acts are also contrary to the purposes and principles
of the United Nations;  [S/RES/1373 (2001)]

Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.  [A/RES/25/2625 (1970)]​While the Gaza Strip and West Bank have demarcation lines rather than a permanent borders, the respect accorded is exactly the same under International Law until such time as the are finalized through negotiations. 

The problem here is not about the territorial dispute, but the fact that the Hostile Arab Palestinian cannot demonstrate that they can enter into a productive and peaceful negotiated effort to resolve the differences.​
*Article Thirteen:  *[Hamas Covenant (1988)]

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. 
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
*ITEM Nineteen:*  [Hamas Political Positions (2013)]

Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal [spheres]; with the need to mobilize all the energies of the nation in the battle.
There is no significant difference between the positions held by the HAMAS of 1988 and the HAMAS of today; nor has there been any significant progress in developing a "productive" Friendly and Co-operative relationship between the two States, in the last quarter century.  

Most Respectfully,
R​


----------



## toastman (Sep 6, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> deltex1 said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone stole everyone else's land at one time or another.  If they are strong enough to keep it, they keep it.  If not they lose it.  Shut up and deal.
> ...


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > deltex1 said:
> ...



You fucked that one up there Toasty.  Unless you intended to change my remarks.

Idiot.


----------



## Phoenall (Sep 6, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani,  _et al,_
> ...





When did arab muslims last physically own Palestine under Customary International law. And at the time of WW1 who under Customary International law owned the land and who did they pass ownership too in 1919 under Customary International  law it being the last time that land changed hands as spoils of war. The new owners then passed the land to mandates under the control of Britain, France and Russia and allocated parcels of land to arab muslims namely Iran, Iraq, Syria and Trans Jordan. This left the area now called Palestine as the NEW NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS. The UN should never have partitioned the land but stuck to the mandate rules and gave the Jews the whole of Palestine and informed the arab muslims that they could move to the land that had been given to them under the mandate, or stay and become full citizens of Israel.

It is the muslims that consider themselves the masters in numbers but are far too disorganised to make them count


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 6, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> How many dead Palestinians will it take?  Seems to me that at some point Palestinians should learn the first law of the hole.  When you're already in one --- Stop Digging!



An enemy which wont give up and isn't eradicated cannot be defeated.

Israel has never suffered defeat.  When it does, it will run.

Chances are though that will be at the hands of the economists.  Israelis are making a true hell for themselves, both in this world and the next, if there is such a thing.


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 6, 2014)




----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 6, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How many dead Palestinians will it take?  Seems to me that at some point Palestinians should learn the first law of the hole.  When you're already in one --- Stop Digging!
> ...



Well hey, good to know  the enemy won't give up.  So let us join together & wish Hamas many more major victories like this last one.


----------



## toastman (Sep 6, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How many dead Palestinians will it take?  Seems to me that at some point Palestinians should learn the first law of the hole.  When you're already in one --- Stop Digging!
> ...



The Palestinians aren't Israel enemy. Hamas is. 

'Israelis are making a true hell for themselves'

Ah, I see you're still living in that delusional world if yours.
Just so you know, my invitation to join the rest of us in the real world isn't going to be on the table forever


----------



## Crystalclear (Sep 6, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


>


Zionism can be the solution for the problem callled Hamas.


----------



## toastman (Sep 6, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...



You said that the Palestinians have every right to "fight and agitate to get their land back"

I responded with :"they did. Many times. They lost every single time"

I guess when someone provides you with the truth about the I/P conflict, you are confused since your used to anti Zionist lies and propaganda.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 7, 2014)

Truly I don't understand the claim that Israel is stealing or occupying "Palestinian land" when the indigenous Palestinians were Jews & there were no Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians until after the 7th century AD.


----------



## Phoenall (Sep 7, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...





 Yes another 2000 next month and then 2000 every month until they agree to talk peace.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 7, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...


Or until there are none.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 7, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...




Its curious that you think killing civilians will help you.  No doubt, that is why the IDF are instructed to target children and non-combatants.  That you miss that the world sees what you are doing is your mistake.  Each time, you turn another million or more against the fascist State of Israel, which knows no borders, to itself or decency.

In 1939 Europe could have avoided many many civilian casualties by allowing Nazi Germany to take nation after nation.  But in time the cost would have been much much higher.  Its just a pity we allowed Nazi Germany to transplant into Palestine.

But we have seen you now.  Your time is limited.


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 7, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...




Note:  ANOTHER call for genocide.  MJB:  You WILL rot in hell.  Hopefully, while still alive.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 7, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Now what are you fuming about.  I don't want no genocide of any racial, religious or ethnic group.  Just the deaths of world terrorists.  Happy now?  Or do you support world terrorists?


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 7, 2014)

You cannot cover that the 2000 (2200) dead were Palestinians, mostly non-combatants.  But all opposing Israel's tyrannical and despotic rule. 

So then you call them ALL terrorists.
You call for genocide.

You are a fascist, subsection, Zionist.


----------



## Forester (Sep 7, 2014)

Yes another 2000 next month and then 2000 every month until they agree to talk peace.[/QUOTE]
Or until there are none.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY![/QUOTE]

Wow. Equating peace with death. I guess that makes  sense in Israel, but ONLY in Israel. Helluva "negotiating" tactic.


----------



## Crystalclear (Sep 7, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> You cannot cover that the 2000 (2200) dead were Palestinians, mostly non-combatants.  But all opposing Israel's tyrannical and despotic rule.
> 
> So then you call them ALL terrorists.
> You call for genocide.
> ...


Ooh please, we both know that the numbers are so high because of Hamas placing rockets and whatever more in civilian areas.


----------



## Rehmani (Sep 7, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> @Rehmani,  et al,
> 
> Let the examination begin!
> 
> ...


You are saying what ever suite to you, and giving long explanation to justify the Jews invasion in The Holly Land  in the form of Zionist but again you can not beat THE NUMBERS AND CHANGE THE FACTS, as you accept your self that Palestine was an undefined territory under Ottoman Empire( but Israel was not define even in history), that is how Empire run before industrial revolution, but it is up to people of Palestine who live in the territory longer than any one else and sustain, how they want to be name their country, neither master nor jews. 
Its a jews mentality to divide the region and the people in small parts and groups, so Jews can establish their monopoly or authority. Exactly what Jews did in Palestine(according to you undefined territory and according to history Israel never exist) divide the region and people in small territories and groups, like Jordan,Lebanon,occupied Palestine and invader Israel.

I will advise to Jews please be real, you can not beat the numbers and change the facts. Please free yourselves from your master or elders, who are guiding you in wrong direction or using you as a slave and sacrificing you when they wanted as they did in Germany, you can not blame to only Hitler, as you know that you can not clap with one hand. Please Jews be real either MASAYA IS NOT COMING, 3000 YEARS ALREADY PASSED OR JEWS SKIP TWO MASAYA JESUS PBUH AND MOHAMMAD PBUH, please complete the line of Prophets and be normal human being, no race can be especial race, unless especial race sh....t smell perfume or some thing stand the race out of mankind. Please give up the silly idea and help the world moving forward and inviting them in the nation of Abraham PBUH, ONE NATION, ONE WORLD.
SOUND LIKE I AM YOUR ENEMY BUT GUIDING YOU IN RIGHT DIRECTION PLEASE THINK, Thanks.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 7, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> You cannot cover that the 2000 (2200) dead were Palestinians, mostly non-combatants.  But all opposing Israel's tyrannical and despotic rule.
> 
> So then you call them ALL terrorists.
> You call for genocide.
> ...



How dare you call me of all people a ZIONIST!  I despise them for their treatment of the Palestinians.  What kind of people make peace offerings to them, build a security fence & grant them their own land so they can remain in Israel to kill Israeli's?  If there is ever to be a lasting peace, Israel must first abaondon this damn Zionist agenda & learn to treat  the Palestinians with the same Arab country love, justice & respect the Palestinians are so well accustomed to & so well deserve.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


----------



## Hossfly (Sep 7, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > @Rehmani,  et al,
> ...


Confucius say; "Man who fly upside down have crack up."


----------



## Rehmani (Sep 7, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



Office Of The Historian / US Department Of State
*MILESTONES: 1945–1952*
*Creation of Israel, 1948*
On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day.





*Eliahu Elath presenting ark to President Truman*

Although the United States supported the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which favored the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had assured the Arabs in 1945 that the United States would not intervene without consulting both the Jews and the Arabs in that region. 

(MANDATE RULER NEVER WANTED JEWISH STATE OR JEWISH UNLIMITED MIGRATION / U.N.O. or USA or JEWS BREACH THE RULER MANDATE AS SUIT TO THEM / ISRAEL IS ILLEGAL.added by me).
The British, who held a colonial mandate for Palestine until May 1948, opposed both the creation of a Jewish state and an Arab state in Palestine as well as unlimited immigration of Jewish refugees to the region. Great Britain wanted to preserve good relations with the Arabs to protect its vital political and economic interests in Palestine.
But I agree with you that Muslims are still dis-organised.


----------



## Rehmani (Sep 8, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


 "Man born upside down, stand up, fly up."


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 8, 2014)

@Rehmani,  _et al,_

Let us address this one point at a time.



Rehmani said:


> You are saying what ever suite to you, and giving long explanation to justify the Jews invasion in The Holly Land


*(COMMENT)*

I try to express the points with the appropriate annotation or evidence that you can digest for yourself.  I try to present the facts.

There was no Jewish "Invasion."  There was Jewish "Immigration" under the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate for Palestine.  



Rehmani said:


> but it is up to people of Palestine who live in the territory longer than any one else and sustain, how they want to be name their country, neither master nor jews.


*(COMMENT)*

Well, this is not the condition or law set at the end of WWI.  The entire landscape, less Turkey, was enemy held territory by the Allied Powers.  It was actually up to the Allied Powers how the post-War region would be administered and managed.  The indigenous people did not have the same rights then (very early 20th Century), as they would have today (very early 21st Century).  In fact, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was not adopted by the General Assembly Resolution 61/295 until September 2007.    And in fact the UN affirms that "indigenous peoples *are equal to all other peoples*, while recognizing the right of all peoples to be different, to consider themselves different, and to be respected as such."  That is to say that your idea that those "who live in the territory longer than any one else and sustain" is not the criteria you should consider.  The indigenous people have no more rights than the legitimate immigrant of permanent residence.



Rehmani said:


> Its a jews mentality to divide the region and the people in small parts and groups, so Jews can establish their monopoly or authority. Exactly what Jews did in Palestine (according to you undefined territory and according to history Israel never exist) divide the region and people in small territories and groups, like Jordan,Lebanon,occupied Palestine and invader Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

In fact, the Jewish Community did not "divide the region and the people in small parts and groups."  The adopted Partition Plan [General Assembly Resolution 181(II)] was a product recommendation of the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) in the form of a "majority proposal."  Lebanon became independent on release from the French Mandate and the adoption of the National Pact; while Jordan became independent on the release frm the British Mandate and adoption of the Anglo-Trans-Jordanian Treaty.

You should also dispense with the idea that Palestine was occupied by the Israeli.  In 1948, the Jewish Agency, having cooperated with the UN Palestine Commission, and following the "Steps Preparatory to Independence," exercised their right to self-determination under the procedures outlined by the UN; and declared independence.



Rehmani said:


> I will advise to Jews please be real, you can not beat the numbers and change the facts.


*(COMMENT)*

Make no mistake, the apportionment in the Two-State Solution that the Partition Plan represents was not that devised by the Jewish Agency, but adopted upon recommendation of the UNSCOP.

The conflict (some equate to a Civil War) was opened in the original Threat Letter from the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) in February, 1948; even before the State of Israel had been established.  The Letter says in part:

History will then record that the United Nations, which was meant to be an instrument of peace and justice, is being used as an instrument of war and aggression.

13. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.

(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.

(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a *solemn declaration* before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.*​
The letter is quite clear.  It constitutes the announcement of Open Hostilities in opposition to the will of the General Assembly.  



Rehmani said:


> Please free yourselves from your master or elders, who are guiding you in wrong direction or using you as a slave and sacrificing you when they wanted as they did in Germany, you can not blame to only Hitler, as you know that you can not clap with one hand. Please Jews be real either MASAYA IS NOT COMING, 3000 YEARS ALREADY PASSED OR JEWS SKIP TWO MASAYA JESUS PBUH AND MOHAMMAD PBUH, please complete the line of Prophets and be normal human being, no race can be especial race, unless especial race sh....t smell perfume or some thing stand the race out of mankind. Please give up the silly idea and help the world moving forward and inviting them in the nation of Abraham PBUH, ONE NATION, ONE WORLD.
> SOUND LIKE I AM YOUR ENEMY BUT GUIDING YOU IN RIGHT DIRECTION PLEASE THINK, Thanks.


(COMMENT)

This, IMHO, is nothing more than Islamic rhetoric which has no bearing on the issues in play.  The Hostile Arab Palestinian opened the war, and now suffers the consequences of their continued inability and capacity to participate in a good-faith process towards a peaceful solution.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 8, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> @Rehmani,  _et al,_
> 
> Let us address this one point at a time.
> 
> ...



Start a conflict, get creamed in retaliation & then bitch about it.  It's all part of Palestinian mentality.


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 8, 2014)

Are you talking 'Vietnam' again Hoss?

Boy, you still bitter?!


----------



## Hossfly (Sep 8, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Are you talking 'Vietnam' again Hoss?
> 
> Boy, you still bitter?!


?


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 8, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Are you talking 'Vietnam' again Hoss?
> 
> Boy, you still bitter?!


Hey Beelze, why is it that not a single surrounding Arab country wants Palestinians?  Boy, that''s a tough question, huh?


Hossfly said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > Are you talking 'Vietnam' again Hoss?
> ...


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 8, 2014)

Many reasons.  
Why would France not want all the Italians to come over, or the British want all the Germans?

They are different people.  Refugees cost money.  Millions of new citizens who didn't choose to be there can be disruptive to a society.  And there is also recognition that Palestinians are loyal to the concept of BEING Palestinian.  So they would be an alien diaspora making crowded areas even tighter on water, jobs, utilities, etc.

You didn't think that through before you asked the question, did you MJB?


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 8, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Many reasons.
> Why would France not want all the Italians to come over, or the British want all the Germans?
> 
> They are different people.  Refugees cost money.  Millions of new citizens who didn't choose to be there can be disruptive to a society.  And there is also recognition that Palestinians are loyal to the concept of BEING Palestinian.  So they would be an alien diaspora making crowded areas even tighter on water, jobs, utilities, etc.
> ...



Didn't you hear the latest news?  You see, Egypt just offered the Palestinans a Palestinian State in the Sinai.  Finally the Palestinians can escapre Israel's brutal treatment of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions keeping them to remain in Israel.  But Palestinian mentality being what it is, I'll bet ya Egypt's wonderful  proposal to help the Palestinians will be rejected.


----------



## Beelzebub (Sep 8, 2014)

You mean the story put out that everyone involved in has denied?

You are a bad liar MJB.  And when you have had so much practice, too.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 8, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> You mean the story put out that everyone involved in has denied?
> 
> You are a bad liar MJB.  And when you have had so much practice, too.



Well,maybe you are right.  Such an offer would have been total stupidity by Egypt.


----------



## Rehmani (Sep 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> @Rehmani,  _et al,_
> 
> Let us address this one point at a time.
> 
> ...


Let's say if I digest your comments as you said that Allied Forces


RoccoR said:


> @Rehmani,  _et al,_
> 
> Let us address this one point at a time.
> 
> ...




1).Roccer; Let's say If I digest as you said that"Roccer; " It was actually up to the Allied Powers how the post-War region would be administered and managed."
2).Roccer; "In fact, the Jewish Community did not "divide the region and the people in small parts and groups."
The adopted Partition Plan [General Assembly Resolution 181(II)] was a product recommendation of the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) in the form of a "majority proposal."  Lebanon became independent on release from the French Mandate and the adoption of the National Pact; while Jordan became independent on the release frm the British Mandate and adoption of the Anglo-Trans-Jordanian Treaty."
3).Roccer; "Make no mistake, the apportionment in the Two-State Solution that the Partition Plan represents was not that devised by the Jewish Agency, but adopted upon recommendation of the UNSCOP."


RoccoR said:


> @Rehmani,  _et al,_
> 4).Roccer;This, IMHO, is nothing more than Islamic rhetoric which has no bearing on the issues in play.  The Hostile Arab Palestinian opened the war, and now suffers the consequences of their continued inability and capacity to participate in a good-faith process towards a peaceful solution.
> 
> ffice Of The Historian / US Department Of State
> ...


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## Rehmani (Sep 9, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > @Rehmani,  _et al,_
> ...


This is fact; you can not beat the numbers and can not change the facts. Be real please.

ffice Of The Historian / US Department Of State
*MILESTONES: 1945–1952
Creation of Israel, 1948*
On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion, the head of the Jewish Agency, proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel. U.S. President Harry S. Truman recognized the new nation on the same day.





*Eliahu Elath presenting ark to President Truman*

Although the United States supported the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which favored the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had assured the Arabs in 1945 that the United States would not intervene without consulting both the Jews and the Arabs in that region.

(MANDATE RULER NEVER WANTED JEWISH STATE OR JEWISH UNLIMITED MIGRATION / U.N.O. or USA or JEWS BREACH THE RULER MANDATE AS SUIT TO THEM / ISRAEL IS ILLEGAL.added by me).
The British, who held a colonial mandate for Palestine until May 1948, opposed both the creation of a Jewish state and an Arab state in Palestine as well as unlimited immigration of Jewish refugees to the region. Great Britain wanted to preserve good relations with the Arabs to protect its vital political and economic interests in Palestine.
1.(COMMENT) It means if tomorrow history will repeat itself and Allied Powers change their mind in favor of United Palestine, then Jews should not have problem to accept the facts and follow the new order.
2.(COMMENT) What actually you are trying to pose that Jews are peace loving people and they are following the rule describe the by U.N.O. But changing the RULER MANDATE (U.K,FRANCE) and refusing to accept U.N.O. new orders, to go back to 1967 border and let the settle 4 or 5 millions displace Palestinian in their old home in Israel and refusing the peace deal by Arab League followed by the USA VETO.
3/4.(COMMENTS) Included in 1/2 and a post from Office Of The Historian / US Department Of State. 

THIS COMMENTS ONLY FOR JEWS TO FREE THEMSELVES / ONLY JEWS REPLY.
Jews, Please free yourselves from your master or elders, who are guiding you in wrong direction or using you as a slave and sacrificing you when they wanted as they did in Germany, you can not blame to only Hitler, as you know that you can not clap with one hand. Please Jews be real either MASAYA IS NOT COMING, 3000 YEARS ALREADY PASSED OR JEWS SKIP TWO MASAYA JESUS PBUH AND MOHAMMAD PBUH, please complete the line of Prophets and be normal human being, no race can be especial race, unless especial race sh....t smell perfume or some thing stand the race out of mankind. Please give up the silly idea and help the world moving forward and inviting them in the nation of Abraham PBUH, ONE NATION, ONE WORLD.
SOUND LIKE I AM YOUR ENEMY BUT GUIDING YOU IN RIGHT DIRECTION PLEASE THINK, Thanks.


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## Phoenall (Sep 9, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...






 You seen to think that killing Jews is the way to promote peace, and hope the world wont see through your bloodlust. A pity that we have so many similar ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST ENTITIES at work in the same area showing the world just how savage and barbaric they are. How they have no concern for their own people and will happily put them in harms way to safeguard themselves. The Nazis were already living in Palestine and had been since 632 C.E. they call themselves muslims but deep down they are ISLAMONAZI TERRORIST SCUM that preach all muslims are soldiers of allah and will fight or be killed. Yes Palestine's time is limited as the world is seeing the truth and reality behind the façade that is islam, and will start to fight back against ISLAMONAZI oppression.


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## Phoenall (Sep 9, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> You cannot cover that the 2000 (2200) dead were Palestinians, mostly non-combatants.  But all opposing Israel's tyrannical and despotic rule.
> 
> So then you call them ALL terrorists.
> You call for genocide.
> ...





Read the reports and see that the majority were ISLAMONAZI TERRORISTS with less than 1% being non combatants. Now do produce the evidence of Israel's tyrannical and despotic rule of gaza, starting with the words of hamas " gaza is not occupied by Israel"


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## Phoenall (Sep 9, 2014)

Forester said:


> Yes another 2000 next month and then 2000 every month until they agree to talk peace.


Or until there are none.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY![/QUOTE]

Wow. Equating peace with death. I guess that makes  sense in Israel, but ONLY in Israel. Helluva "negotiating" tactic.[/QUOTE]




 It is the only reasoning the Palestinians know, look at Black September when Jordan executed all those Palestinian terrorists. Then Lebanon when the Christians did the same. Both times the Palestinians got the message and stopped their take over bids. So third time lucky and they might put down their weapons for good if there is another mass execution of Palestinian terrorists and decide to talk of peace.


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## Phoenall (Sep 9, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > @Rehmani,  et al,
> ...







 remember one little fact that arab muslim Palestinians did not exist before 635 C.E. but Jewish Palestinians existed for 3,000 years before this. So who has lived on the land the longest the upstart ISLAMONAZI's or the Jews ?


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## Phoenall (Sep 9, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...






 The British by rights had no say in the matter and it was their inherent ANTI SEMITISM and JEW HATRED that led to the problems we face today. The LoN should have relieved Britain of its mandate and given it to a stronger nation to manage.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Forester said:
> 
> 
> > Yes another 2000 next month and then 2000 every month until they agree to talk peace.
> ...



Wow. Equating peace with death. I guess that makes  sense in Israel, but ONLY in Israel. Helluva "negotiating" tactic.[/QUOTE]




It is the only reasoning the Palestinians know, look at Black September when Jordan executed all those Palestinian terrorists. Then Lebanon when the Christians did the same. Both times the Palestinians got the message and stopped their take over bids. So third time lucky and they might put down their weapons for good if there is another mass execution of Palestinian terrorists and decide to talk of peace.[/QUOTE]

So true, it took Jordan nearly 20,000 dead Palestinians to communicate peace from them.  Sure looks like Israel still has a long way to go.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 10, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Forester said:
> ...






It is the only reasoning the Palestinians know, look at Black September when Jordan executed all those Palestinian terrorists. Then Lebanon when the Christians did the same. Both times the Palestinians got the message and stopped their take over bids. So third time lucky and they might put down their weapons for good if there is another mass execution of Palestinian terrorists and decide to talk of peace.[/QUOTE]

So true, it took Jordan nearly 20,000 dead Palestinians to communicate peace from them.  Sure looks like Israel still has a long way to go.[/QUOTE]

It is truly sad that the Palestinians are their own worst enemy.  For it is they themselves who actually elected Hamas to represent them & carry out their wishes.  And now with over 2000 dead Palestinians & much of Gaza in ruins, Hamas claims a major VICTORY for the Palestinian people to celebrate.


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## Rehmani (Sep 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



You can not change the facts and figures on ground, be real good for you and for the world. No Masaya is coming 3000 years already passed and off course Jews are not prime kind, please change yourselves and follow the line of prophet Jesus PBUH and Mohammad PBUH, thanks.


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## Rehmani (Sep 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Nonsense, You people will never understand, always making stupid argument and keep changing your own point of view, please be real and free your self from your master who are using you.


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## Hossfly (Sep 10, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...


Question, Ahab: Who wrote the Quran and what does it say about killing Jews and non-believers?


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## theliq (Sep 11, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Truly I don't understand the claim that Israel is stealing or occupying "Palestinian land" when the indigenous Palestinians were Jews & there were no Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians until after the 7th century AD.


How ridiculous


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## theliq (Sep 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



This comment is too banal for a reply...


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## theliq (Sep 11, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Hi Hoss........You could say the same thing for the Zionist Mantra.......trust you are well Hoss..steve


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## MJB12741 (Sep 11, 2014)

theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Truly I don't understand the claim that Israel is stealing or occupying "Palestinian land" when the indigenous Palestinians were Jews & there were no Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians until after the 7th century AD.
> ...



Would you be so kind as to tell us why the above comment is "so ridiculous."  Or do you prefer others just see you as an imbecile to laugh at?


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## Rehmani (Sep 11, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Answer,            : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.


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## Hossfly (Sep 11, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...


Okey dokey. So Mohammad received it and his wife wrote it out. (since he was illerate) Got it!


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## Rehmani (Sep 12, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Mister, No, His(PBUH) companion wrote it and in Islam has tradition to memorize and recite daily or as much as some one can. For your knowledge Al-Quran can be recite or read by 7 methods without changing the pronunciation and meaning.
Please see some Muslim scholar around you for right knowledge.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 12, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...




Will you tell us how "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land" when among the indigenous Palestinians since antiquity were Jews & not a single Muslim around until after the 7th century AD?  This claim sounds like they are saying Israel is stealing their own land.


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## montelatici (Sep 12, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Palestinians were almost all Christians that converted from the Roman Religions by 400 AD. After the Arab conquest of the mid 600s AD most, but not all, converted to Islam.  Jews were a very tiny population.  Same people different religions. The Europeans that settled in Palestine and stole the land from the Muslims and Christians were Europeans, not Palestinians or even Middle Easterners.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...



Get serious.  For your education, please note the "Israelite" period from approximately 1000 BCE-732 BCE.  So tell us how many of your so called Roman religions were around then that the Jews converted from?


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## montelatici (Sep 12, 2014)

Do you have a reading comprehension problem or don't know the difference between AD and BC?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Do you have a reading comprehension problem or don't know the difference between AD and BC?



It is you who have just proven yourself to be a fool.  Feel free to try again.  You see, BCE or BC if you prefer predates AD.  So again I ask you how many of those Roman religions you refer to that Palestinians converted from were around in the time period of the Israelites 1000 BCE to 750 BCE?

Time periods in the Palestine region - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## montelatici (Sep 12, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have a reading comprehension problem or don't know the difference between AD and BC?
> ...



Reread what I wrote you frigging moron.

"Palestinians were almost all Christians that converted from the Roman Religions by 400 AD."

As I said, a reading comprehension problem. I said nothing about pre-history.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Reread what I wrote you frigging moron.
> 
> "Palestinians were almost all Christians that converted from the Roman Religions by 400 AD."
> 
> As I said, a reading comprehension problem. I said nothing about pre-history.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 12, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Reread what I wrote you frigging moron.
> ...



Oh yeah right.  Now I get it.  The ancient Israelites converted to those pre Christian "Roman religions" you refer to, right?  Heh Heh!


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## montelatici (Sep 12, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You really are dense, aren't you.


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## montelatici (Sep 12, 2014)

Let's make it clearer for the morons.  By 400 AD the state religion of the Roman Empire (the one led by Constantinople) was the  one now called Orthodox Christian.  Most people in the Empire converted to the Christian religion, including those living in Palestine.  Now shut up morons.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Let's make it clearer for the morons.  By 400 AD the state religion of the Roman Empire (the one led by Constantinople) was the  one now called Orthodox Christian.  Most people in the Empire converted to the Christian religion, including those living in Palestine.  Now shut up morons.



Having a discussion with you is like being locked in a piece of pipe.  Round & round we go with no way out.  Let me dumb it down for you.  Prior to 400 AD when the state religion of the Roman empire became Christianity, what were those Roman religionyou refered to that the Jews, or Israelites converted to?  Let me help you out.  Was it Mazdakism, Manicheism, or what?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 12, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Let's make it clearer for the morons.  By 400 AD the state religion of the Roman Empire (the one led by Constantinople) was the  one now called Orthodox Christian.  Most people in the Empire converted to the Christian religion, including those living in Palestine.  Now shut up morons.
> ...



Hey how about Mithraism?  Yes, thats it.  The Israelites converted to Mithraism.  Oh wait, that can't be it.  Mithraism is a Persian heresy offshoot of Zoroastrianism.  Never any concept of dualism for the Jews.


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## Rehmani (Sep 13, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


What you are saying that there was no israeli until 1948 because there was no country called Israel.
Please free your self from your master, making you fool, No masaya and No Prime race all mankind are equal and they all have two eyes,arms,legs,red blood and all give smelly s... including JEWS.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 13, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...



No Israel until 1948???  Oh yeah, now I get it, that's when the Jews became the ISRAELITES.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 13, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...




Fact is the overwhelming majority of Muslim Palestinians are squatters on Israel's ancient land with no titiles or deeds to it held by any generation of Muslim Palestinians.


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## theliq (Sep 14, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


No M,the Jews became Israelites in Babylonian times.....who eventually settled in Canaan and Moab......after they eradicated these two peoples but relinquished this area in Roman times to the Palestinians.....Palestine.

The Jews were NEVER the original people of this land,they merely violently over threw the existing peoples and made the capital of the Canaanites "Salem" Jerusalem...the Temple was consecrated by Abraham as his father David later King David was not allowed to because of his murder of King Saul..good ain't I......


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## Hossfly (Sep 14, 2014)

theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...


Very good, Steve. Why, you know more about the Jews than a Rabbi.


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## theliq (Sep 14, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


I have lived among Jews and Palestinians my friend Hoss.....both in general are very good peoples.....apart from the Mad Few On Both Sides..steve I will overlook you being a little Sarcastic Today Hoss LOL


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## Rehmani (Sep 15, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


Because Jews never accept the religion of Father Abraham PBUH and Jacob PBUH ans still they call themselves Jews Not Buni Israel, hardly few jews follow the tradition of Holly books or attend the Sinagoge and this little group of Buni Israel become the little sect of Big Jews community.
Please change your self no masaya is coming and jews are not special kind.
And Jews never exist in this part of the world until Moses PBUH direct Faro slave jews to the Area. And soon after they loss to Roman and left for central Asia or Persia like Iran.


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## Rehmani (Sep 15, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Sep 15, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...



Say what?  Do you believe the Muslims predate the Israelites?


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## Rehmani (Sep 16, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


I will say, Islam and Muslim are updating the israeltes and spreading the message of Allah (s) God.
Which kept secret by Jews instead. And considering themselves prime kind while all mankind are equal.


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...





Try again as the evidence shows that Britain had no power in Palestine other than to assist the various groups to gain independence. I have never changed this fact once, as the ruling power was the LoN who set out the rules of the mandates.


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

theliq said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Truly I don't understand the claim that Israel is stealing or occupying "Palestinian land" when the indigenous Palestinians were Jews & there were no Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians until after the 7th century AD.
> ...




 So when was the inventor of islam born, and when did he invent islam ?


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

theliq said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...






 You mean you cant find one single instance of the arab muslim Palestinians sitting down and talking peace. Nor can you find one single instance of the arab muslim Palestinians doing anything towards a just and mutual peace


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

theliq said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...






 What Zionist mantra, and a link to a non partisan source as evidence ?


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

"remember one little fact that arab muslim Palestinians did not exist before 635 C.E. but Jewish Palestinians existed for 3,000 years before this. So who has lived on the land the longest the upstart ISLAMONAZI's or the Jews ?"

Remember that the Ziofascist Europeans came from Europe and the Christian and Muslim Palestinians are descendants of Caanites, Philistines, Jews, Samaritans and others that lived in Palestine that converted to Christianity and Islam from their former religions.


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...






 The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
 The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written.  The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
 The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

 I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...






 There is a copy of the Koran from the 8C that is nothing like the Koran of today, care to explain why this is. And why every copy of the Koran was destroyed after mohameds death and new ones written.


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...






 BULLSHIT


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it  to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Let's make it clearer for the morons.  By 400 AD the state religion of the Roman Empire (the one led by Constantinople) was the  one now called Orthodox Christian.  Most people in the Empire converted to the Christian religion, including those living in Palestine.  Now shut up morons.






 But not the Jews that lived in the area who stayed as Jews. Up to the mid 7C the Jews were not molested by the romans or Christians. Come the muslims and everyone in Palestine was forced into converting to islam or being killed. This resulted in the genocides and ethnic cleansings of Jews and Christians for 100 years until the muslims were the majority


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "remember one little fact that arab muslim Palestinians did not exist before 635 C.E. but Jewish Palestinians existed for 3,000 years before this. So who has lived on the land the longest the upstart ISLAMONAZI's or the Jews ?"
> 
> Remember that the Ziofascist Europeans came from Europe and the Christian and Muslim Palestinians are descendants of Caanites, Philistines, Jews, Samaritans and others that lived in Palestine that converted to Christianity and Islam from their former religions.






 They came at the request of the LEGAL OWNERS OF PALESTINE to settle and RESURECT THE NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS The arab muslims were the ones to invade Palestine after 1850 when the Jews worked the land and made the swamps fertile


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## MJB12741 (Sep 16, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



I miss Arafat.  That man was a great leader.  He took his Palestinians from the toilet to the sewer, got them massacred over & over again by their own Arab brothers, embezelled their money, died of AIDS & left the Palestinians living in ignorance & poverty with no hope for a Palestinian State.  Let us all join together in wishing Hamas the greatest of success in filling Arafat's shoes.


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## Challenger (Sep 16, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Let's make it clearer for the morons.  By 400 AD the state religion of the Roman Empire (the one led by Constantinople) was the  one now called Orthodox Christian.  Most people in the Empire converted to the Christian religion, including those living in Palestine.  Now shut up morons.
> ...


Drivel.


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## Challenger (Sep 16, 2014)

@Phoenall "Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility" 

Can you cite a source for this statement?


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## Hossfly (Sep 16, 2014)

Challenger said:


> @Phoenall "Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility"
> 
> Can you cite a source for this statement?


You need to start reading some history books instead of getting your info from the Islamic terrorist supporters on USMB.
Israeli Jews were called "Palestinian" and so-called Palestinians were properly called "Arab" until Ararafart pulled a switcheroo. Much like faggots calling themselves "gay." Get with the program, Toodles.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 16, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > @Phoenall "Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility"
> ...



So true.  Among the indigenous Palestinians were Jews & not a single theiving Muslim Palestinian yet in existence.


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## Challenger (Sep 16, 2014)

Thank you for your input, but it's precisely the absence of this, "...that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area..." in any scholarly history book I've read that makes me ask the question.


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Cognitive dissonance at its best.

Sometimes it is good to repeat facts from source material to prove how ridiculous (and liars) the Israel Firsters are:

*"AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. * 
There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems*. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race.* Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, *in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000*. *Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. *In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions. Jewish agricultural colonies were founded."- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


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## Hossfly (Sep 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


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From your link:

The country is under-populated because of this lack of development. There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. 

In other words they were Moslem Arabs, making the Jews and Christians "Palestinians.".


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > @Phoenall "Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility"
> ...



You need to stop parroting Zionist propaganda.  Firstly, there were no "Israeli" Jews prior to the establishment of the State of Israel.  Secondly, the Muslim-Christian Associations that would meet with the British in London periodically to plead their case prior to the Second World War were called Palestine Arab Delegations by the British and by the Palestinians themselves.   The Jews were simply called Zionists, not Palestinian at all.  As usual, source material which proves my point is provided and linked to:

*"PALESTINE. 
CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.
 Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: *​
- See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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In other words, you are full of shit as usual, as I prove in the post above. LOL


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

Keep digging Hoss, you are making a fool of yourself.


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## Hossfly (Sep 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Keep digging Hoss, you are making a fool of yourself.


Good advice from the Court Jester.


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

Of course, when confronted by facts that demonstrate clearly that you are a clown, you project.  Too funny, Hoss.


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

Challenger said:


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Nope fact as written down by the Romans and Early Christians


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

Challenger said:


> @Phoenall "Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility"
> 
> Can you cite a source for this statement?




Before 1920 only Jews were called Palestinians Read Joan Peter s book From Time Immemorial Reader comments at Daniel Pipes


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> 
> > Let's make it clearer for the morons.  By 400 AD the state religion of the Roman Empire (the one led by Constantinople) was the  one now called Orthodox Christian.  Most people in the Empire converted to the Christian religion, including those living in Palestine.  Now shut up morons.
> ...




What a clown you are.  You really should stop posting bullshit.  You are making a fool of yourself.  You will write just about any bullshit until someone like me, that knows far more than you, posts the facts with links. 

The Siege of Jerusalem by the Crusaders:

 "Meanwhile, the crusaders had reached Jerusalem (June 7, 1099), and the siege had begun. The city was captured on July 15, with Godfrey entering it through the Jewish quarter, where inhabitants defended themselves alongside their *Muslim neighbors*,* finally seeking refuge in the synagogues, which were set on fire by the attackers*. A terrible massacre ensued; the survivors were sold as slaves, some being later redeemed by Jewish communities in Italy. The Jewish community of Jerusalem came to an end and was not reconstituted for many years, but the Jewish centers in Galilee went unscathed. However, the great community of Ramleh dispersed, as did that of Jaffa , so that overall the Jewish community in the Holy Land was greatly diminished.

The Crusades Jewish Virtual Library


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
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> > @Phoenall "Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility"
> ...



Bullshit already disproved with facts and links on another thread. But here it goes again.  The Muslims and Christians were called Palestine Arabs, the European Jews were called Zionists. A source document from 1922 is below.

"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH *THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION* AND THE *ZIONIST ORGANISATION.* Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON:

 - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

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 How many times have you been told that this is a false report by ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATERS


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## Phoenall (Sep 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 Read your post again as it states that most of the Jews in Palestine went unmolested, it was the Jews in Jerusalem that faced the genocides


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## montelatici (Sep 16, 2014)

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Where do you think Jerusalem was in?  Sheesh.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 16, 2014)

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Outstanding question.  Bless you for your very fine mind in asking it so all can see the truth.  Jerusalem was in JUDEA.

http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/nt_israel-flat.jpg


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## Phoenall (Sep 17, 2014)

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Do you think the little city of Jerusalem is all that exists of Palestine. It is a tiny part of Palestine and the vast majority of Jews lived outside of Jerusalem in places like Hebron, Bethlehem and Nazareth. So as I said in the main the Jews were unmolested until the arab muslims showed up in 635 C.E. and forced them at the point of a sword to convert, they even brag about doing so in the Koran and hadiths.


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## Rehmani (Sep 17, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Phoenall said:


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It is the Israelis supporter, who bring the Allied Power and their ruler mandate in the issue not me. i just bring the reference to satisfy you guys, you people should agree among yourselves first.
You can not change fact and beat the number, please rehabilitate your self make free from slave.
No masaya is coming and jews are not special kind, be normal good for every one.


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## Rehmani (Sep 17, 2014)

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Zionist are jews.


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## Challenger (Sep 17, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
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> > @Phoenall "Care to explain then why it was that the term Palestinian was derogatory and an insult and any arab muslim would kill you if you called them a Palestinian. The term was reserved for any Jew living in the area up until Arafat stole in in 1960 and used it to define the arab muslims and give their cause credibility"
> ...




OMG! You're citing Joan Peters?! That explains a lot. 

As for Daniel Pipes...I won't go there, but here's a comment made by Mr Pipes about Peters' book, "_From Time Immemorial_ quotes carelessly, uses statistics sloppily, and ignores inconvenient facts. Much of the book is irrelevant to Miss Peters’s central thesis. The author’s linguistic and scholarly abilities are open to question. Excessive use of quotation marks, eccentric footnotes, and a polemical, somewhat hysterical undertone mar the book. In short, _From Time Immemorial_ stands out as an appallingly crafted book."


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## Challenger (Sep 17, 2014)

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I'd hardly call Herbert Samuel an "ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATER"


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## Rehmani (Sep 17, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and the He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab


Phoenall said:


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You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab like him PBUH. Means he PBUH can not steal from other holly books but His PBUH message is as same as his PBUH predecessor in the line of prophets.But Prophet Mohammad PBUH was the AUTHOR of book of Allah(God) Al-Quran.
First there are no such a message killed Jews or Christian if there is then it is also apply on Muslim too, especially those who proved hypocrites not beleaver of the Holy Books. 
As you know always hypocrites cause trouble to Prophets Like hypocrites jews cause trouble to Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH.
Please don't be ignorant.


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## Rehmani (Sep 17, 2014)

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You better travel to Muslim world or visit to some muslim or muslim scholar near you would help to clear your misunderstanding. As I said there are hypocrite around and possibilities are there.


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## Rehmani (Sep 17, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Jews are not special kind among the mankind and jews shits like every one does.
It is not "BULLSHIT" is it.


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## Challenger (Sep 17, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Really which Romans and early Christians in particular? Don't bother. The fact is that after the Muslim conquests the *local Byzantine nobility* in Palestine were given the option to convert or leave. Most left and were replaced by the new  Arab nobility who took over their vacant estates. The local population, however, remained in place and were allowed to practice their various religions in peace, but were taxed for the privilage. Over the centuries most of the native Palestinian Christian and Jewish populations converted to Islam, both to avoid the tax and to advance in the new Muslim society. The Muslim elites were by and large against widespread conversion as this ate into their tax revenues so the process took centuries. Salacious tales of "convert or die" and "Muslim massacres" came from Armenian monks and Byzantine exiles. Historians treat these writings as Christian propaganda pieces. 

Interestingly there was no evidence of large scale Arab migration into Palestine after the conquest, those Arabian migrants that did show up were "encouraged" to move on to less prosperous and fertile areas in Mesopotamia and Syria. for good English language general histories of the period, I'd recommend:"The Great Arab Conquests: How The Spread Of Islam Changed The World We Live In" by Hugh Kennedy or "In The Shadow Of The Sword: The Battle for Global Empire and the End of the Ancient World" by Tom Holland.


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## montelatici (Sep 17, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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Jerusalem was the capital of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem and in Palestine, not Judea.  Judea did not exist at the time of the siege of Jerusalem by the Crusaders.  You people are thick.


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## Hossfly (Sep 17, 2014)

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If that is your argument then you're daft.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 17, 2014)

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Right on.  Especially John Hagee & his over 50 million CUFI members.  Pass it on.  Heh Heh!


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## MJB12741 (Sep 17, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
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Right on. Especially John Hagee & his over 50 million CUFI members. Pass it on. Heh Heh!


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## MJB12741 (Sep 17, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
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## MJB12741 (Sep 17, 2014)

Rehmani said:


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"Zionists are Jews."  Right on. Especially John Hagee & his over 50 million CUFI members. Pass it on. Heh Heh!


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## Phoenall (Sep 17, 2014)

Rehmani said:


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 I am not a Jew but I am a Zionist. Mohamed was not a Jew but he was originally a Zionist. Jesus was a Jew and he was a Zionist. Hitler was not a Jew but he was a Zionist.


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## Phoenall (Sep 17, 2014)

Challenger said:


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 His team that did the leg work were, all ne did was to collate their findings


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## Phoenall (Sep 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 Try looking in the mirror for the thick one, the latin kingdom of Jerusalem was a city state invented by some crusaders. Judea was in existence before the Roman Empire was thought of. And for your Information Judea was in Palestine.


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## Phoenall (Sep 17, 2014)

Rehmani said:


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 Try this for size then

Quran (3:151) - _"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  _ This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').


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## RoccoR (Sep 17, 2014)

_et al,_

Embedded in the "Question of Palestine" and "who-is-occupying-whos-land(?)" is the question of "who are the who's."  Obviously, one of them is "Israel."  But is there a actually a functional government that represents the Palestinian People?

Most of the conversation thus far is about historical events that cannot be changed; and of course the usual finger-pointing.  But the real question is whether or not the Palestinians _(who claim to be able to stand on their own and exercise self-determination)_ actually have a government and a voice that can act on their behalf?

Recently, in an interview _(Published Wednesday, September 17, 2014 by Mohammed Fouad) _with the Beirut-based _Al-Akhbar (“Your foreign correspondent in the Middle East”)_,  HAMAS leader Mahmoud al-Zahar (a former HAMAS Foreign Minister) made some points that lead me to believe that the "unity Government" is a government in chaos with little or no real effective leadership.

We (HAMAS) do not negotiate directly with Israel even though there is no religious or political deterrent that would prevent us from doing so.
Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas). He helped us negotiate indirectly with the Israeli occupation.  But he does not speak in our name and we have not agreed to his project.


Abu Mazen does not play his role to the fullest in the negotiations around humanitarian issues, we will look for another mediator to negotiate with Israel directly. We could ask an Arab or international party such as the United Nations to negotiate with Israel on humanitarian and not political issues.


Mahmoud Abbas is neither a consensus nor a legitimate president, he is a _de facto_ president. We dealt with him as a president who was elected a year before us and we gave him half of the government in the Mecca Agreement in 2006.


The PLO’s agenda is not our agenda. We want to preserve it as a political framework but if we join it then we will change the agenda. The issue for us is not joining the PLO but changing its program because of the Oslo Accords which the organization adopted as a “political free-for-all.” Hamas turned into a resistance project.


The weapons of the Resistance are off the table in talks and on the ground. This is the position of all Palestinians and they all refuse any talk of disarming the Resistance.
These points suggest that their is anything BUT a unity government.  HAMAS is attempting to takeover the political control of the State of Palestine by marginalizing the effective control of Mahmoud Abbas.

No matter what the outcome of the discussions about what happened decades ago, the fact of the matter is, that those discussions are about history and cannot help the current situation.  It really makes little difference about who did what to whom a half century ago.  What can make a difference is who does what to whom --- today.  And certainly, while there are grievances of the past that may be relevant yet, none of them have a chance of settlement until the People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Challenger (Sep 17, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> ....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.



There, you hit the nail right on the head. "...a reasonable government." Reasonable, in who's eyes? If the Palestinian people held free and fair elections, supervised by the UN and voted in a Hamas government, would the West recognise it? Oh wait, they *did*, in 2006; that worked well didn't it? Hamas were ready to talk then and America was ready to accept the result of the democratic vote. The US State Department  got ready to recognise the new government...and then the Zionist lobby and their masters in Israel went into overdrive and we have the current mess. A "reasonable government" really means one who does what it's told by the Zionists, doesn't it?


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## toastman (Sep 17, 2014)

Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
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> > ....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.
> ...



I don't recall this taking place . Wheres your link?


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## RoccoR (Sep 17, 2014)

Challenger,  _et al,_

I think you made an assumption here, that is not in evidence.



Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
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> > ....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

What the rest of the world community recognizes or does not recognize is a matter of diplomacy.  But what the US can recognize and support is a matter of law.  And the law of the land is very specific relative to the a designated terrorist organization (ie HAMAS).

*Legal Ramifications of Designation*

It is unlawful for a person in the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to knowingly provide "material support or resources" to a designated FTO. (The term "material support or resources" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(1) as " any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who maybe or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(2) provides that for these purposes “the term ‘training’ means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(3) further provides that for these purposes the term ‘expert advice or assistance’ means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.’’
Representatives and members of a designated FTO, if they are aliens, are inadmissible to and, in certain circumstances, removable from the United States (see 8 U.S.C. §§ 1182 (a)(3)(B)(i)(IV)-(V), 1227 (a)(1)(A)).
Any U.S. financial institution that becomes aware that it has possession of or control over funds in which a designated FTO or its agent has an interest must retain possession of or control over the funds and report the funds to the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.
It had nothing to do with a "Zionist Lobby."  The law has been in place since the 1970's and the rise of Palestinian Terrorism.  The fact that the People of Palestine chose to elect (freely) a terrorist organization has automatic consequences.  The Zionist Lobby had nothing to do with HAMAS being designated in 1997 as a terrorist group.  And a decade later (2006), when it became a political entity by the peoples choice, the Counterintelligence Community threw the red flag.  It is a matter of law, not politics.  HAMAS earned its place on the designated terrorist list.  And the People of Palestine have to accept the consequences of their actions.  It is as simple as that.

As usual, the Palestinians shot themselves in the foot and now want to blame everyone else for their self-inflected wound except the ones responsible (the People of Palestine).  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## montelatici (Sep 17, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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1. The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was more than twice as large as Israel and the Palestinian territories combined and had large cities such as Acre and Ascalon in it, not just Jerusalem

2. The discussion was not related to anything but the treatment of Jews after the conquest of Jerusalem by the Crusaders. Nothing to do with Judea except that one of your Israel Firster buddies claimed it *was not in *Palestine. Take it up with him/her.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Once again, Jerusalem is in JUDEA!.  You know, that Muslim province, right?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 17, 2014)

Is Judea in Jerusalem


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## montelatici (Sep 17, 2014)

What are blathering on about?


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## toastman (Sep 17, 2014)

montelatici said:


> What are blathering on about?


I've been asking you the same thing for a while now


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## montelatici (Sep 17, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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I just post fact with sources.  You post bullshit.  That's the difference.


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## toastman (Sep 18, 2014)

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Monti, even you know that's not true. Your posts are here for everyone to see, so you cannot get away with a lie like this.
You post Arab propaganda and you constantly distort history. I am the one who posts facts with links. You are full of shit and everyone here knows it.


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## Phoenall (Sep 18, 2014)

Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
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> > ....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.
> ...





 Link to show that hamas was prepared to talk on matters of peace and mutual borders, and not some partisan source either that matches your agenda


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## Phoenall (Sep 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Wasn't that the same Crusaders that beat the arab muslims and expelled them from Palestine ?

 At its height in encompassed Palestine, Israel and a small part of Lebanon. About 30% of historic Palestine.

Judea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The name _Judea_ is a Greek and Roman adaptation of the name "Judah", which originally encompassed the territory of the Israelite tribe of that name and later of the ancient Kingdom of Judah. Nimrud Tablet K.3751, dated c.733 BCE, is the earliest known record of the name Judah (written in Assyrian cuneiform as Yaudaya or KUR.ia-ú-da-a-a).
Judea was sometimes used as the name for the entire region, including parts beyond the river Jordan.[6] In 200 CE Sextus Julius Africanus, cited by Eusebius (_Church History_ 1.7.14), described "Nazara" (Nazareth) as a village in Judea.[7]
Judea was the name in use in English until the Jordanian occupation of the area in 1948. Jordan called the area of Judea and Samaria _ad-difa’a al-gharbiya_ (translated into English as the "West Bank").[8] "Yehuda" is the Hebrew term used for the area in modern Israel since the region was captured and occupied by Israel in 1967.[9]


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## Rehmani (Sep 18, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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What ever in AL-Quran is "word of Allah(God)" Prophet Mohammad PBUH just Passed on to us, as I reply to you in previous two posts, please follow the advise see some muslim near you to correct your misunderstanding or may be you are reading wrong book.


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## montelatici (Sep 18, 2014)

toastman said:


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Is that another Hasbara technique?  Just call another poster a liar and repeat enough times? The old Goebells trick.

You never post a fact.  You never provide backup because there isn't any except from propaganda sites.

 I only post fact with backup and usual the backup are  source documents from official archives.  It is you and your Israel Firster friends that just repeat Zionist propaganda that has been discredited nearly everywhere.


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## toastman (Sep 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


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No, but what you're doing is a typical pro Palestinian technique; accuse others of what you're guilty of. You cannot claim what you are claiming when everyone here can see that it's bullshit.
We all see your posts so we can all see that you DON'T post facts with links, but lies and propaganda.
Fail!


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## MJB12741 (Sep 18, 2014)

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LMAO!  Monte only posts "FACTS with back up."    Now THAT'S funny!


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## Phoenall (Sep 18, 2014)

Rehmani said:


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> ...





 Like all holy books the Koran is the word of man, not god. It was a mentally defective man that recited the Koran in the 7c, a man that had frontal lobe epilepsy that manifests as delusions, hearing voices and seeing visions. No other person saw or heard these visitations, and as the hadiths tell us Mohamed often recited a different version on the verses on two seperate days. The consensus of opinion is that one of his sex slaves a Jewish girl told him of the Torah and its teachings and he used her stories as the basis for the Koran. He added verses extolling violence and murder because that is what most  arabs of the time understood. One arab group worshipped 3 goddesses that manifested as cranes so he introduced them as allahs wives in one section of the Koran. He later claimed that this was given to him by the devil, but did not take them out and have them changed. The Koran is full of mistakes from a god that is supposed to be omnipotent like seminal fluid coming from the spine.

I have seen many muslim clerics in my life and not one has been able to explain the satanic verses, the many mistakes and the violence. I had one who stated that Mohamed had never killed a man in his life, then I showed him the Bukhari hadiths that show he killed many in clod blood. Another denied that he was an Incestuous paedophile until he read the Bukhari hadiths that show he married his brothers 9 year old daughter after changing the laws to allow him to do so.

 So it is you that needs to get your brain into gear and read the Koran and hadiths properly to see that it is plagiarism and a terrorist manual.


----------



## toastman (Sep 18, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Monti is great for laughs, isn't he?


----------



## Phoenall (Sep 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 And as you have been shown many of your documents are not legally acceptable or verifiable. Backup means you use two distinct sources separated by cultural differences that say the same thing. Not a source that says   " an unnamed Palestinian source said "


----------



## Challenger (Sep 18, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  _et al,_
> 
> I think you made an assumption here, that is not in evidence.
> 
> ...


Don't have access to US law books, which law is that exactly? In any event it is the Secretary of State who decides who goes on or comes off the list based on political expediency covered by a fig leaf of the Bureau of Counterterrorism.


----------



## montelatici (Sep 18, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




I have been shown nothing.  Documents from the UN Archives are not only acceptable, they have been verified as either transcripts of the originals or true copies of the originals held in the UN archives.  

"Backup means you use two distinct sources separated by cultural differences that say the same thing."

You just love to make things up, don't you.  You continue to embarrass yourself with your crazy notions.


----------



## RoccoR (Sep 18, 2014)

Challenger,  _et al,_

Glad to help you out.



Challenger said:


> Don't have access to US law books, which law is that exactly?


*(COMMENT)*

Oh no problem at all.  The law, as cited above is linked at:

18 U.S. Code § 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists



Challenger said:


> In any event it is the Secretary of State who decides who goes on or comes off the list based on political expediency covered by a fig leaf of the Bureau of Counterterrorism.


*(COMMENT)*

First, there is no Bureau of Counterterrorism within the Department of State.  There is a Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS) and Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR).  


DS:  The Bureau is responsible for providing a safe and secure environment for the conduct of U.S. foreign policy. Every diplomatic mission in the world operates under a security program designed and maintained by Diplomatic Security. In the United States, Diplomatic Security personnel protect the Secretary of State and high-ranking foreign dignitaries and officials visiting the United States, investigates passport and visa fraud, and conducts personnel security investigations. Operating from a global platform in 31 U.S. cities and more than 160 foreign countries, DS ensures that America can conduct diplomacy safely and securely. DS plays a vital role in protecting 275 U.S. diplomatic missions and their personnel overseas, securing critical information systems, investigating passport and visa fraud, and fighting the war on terror.  DS is NOT a member of the U.S. intelligence community (IC).

INR:  The Bureau of Intelligence and Research's (INR) primary mission is to harness intelligence to serve U.S. diplomacy. Drawing on all-source intelligence, INR provides value-added independent analysis of events to U.S. State Department policymakers; ensures that intelligence activities support foreign policy and national security purposes; and serves as the focal point in the State Department for ensuring policy review of sensitive counterintelligence and law enforcement activities around the world.  The bureau also analyzes geographical and international boundary issues. The Bureau of Intelligence and Research is a member of the IC [_seventeen separate organizations united to form the Intelligence Community (IC)]_.
You are, most likely, confused with the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), which is one of six subsidiary centers of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI).  ODNI operates under the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004.  

NCTC:  NCTC serves as the primary organization in the U.S. government for integrating and analyzing all intelligence pertaining to terrorism possessed or acquired by the U.S. government (except purely domestic terrorism); serves as the central and shared knowledge bank on terrorism information; and ensures that agencies receive all-source intelligence support needed to execute their counterterrorism plans or to perform independent, alternative analysis, and receive the intelligence needed to accomplish their assigned activities.
 NCTC serves as the principal advisor to the DNI on intelligence operations and analysis relating to counterterrorism, advising the DNI on how well US intelligence activities, programs, and budget proposals for counterterrorism conform to priorities established by the President.

 Unique among US agencies, NCTC serves as the primary organization responsible for strategic operational planning for counterterrorism. Operating under the policy direction of the President and the National Security Council, NCTC provides interagency planning and assessments of US strategic counterterrorism programs and activities.​
While the Department of State (DOS) is the publisher of the list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTO), and the designator, the detection and identification of individuals is a collaborative effort through the IC and in cooperation with ODNI and its NCTC.  It is not a unique designation made unilaterally by DOS/INR. 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Challenger (Sep 18, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  _et al,_
> 
> Glad to help you out.
> 
> ...



No Bureau of Counter Terrorism? So who the hell are these people, cited in the U.S. Department of State website? Foreign Terrorist Organizations


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## RoccoR (Sep 18, 2014)

Challenger,  _et al,_

Well, you caught me in a tangle.  Technically I am wrong and apologize.  I guess I should have mentioned it since it was on the web page I linked to you in the previous comment.  I should have said; "there is no Bureau of Counterterrorism within the Department of State *that has an active roll in countering international terrorism*."



Challenger said:


> No Bureau of Counter Terrorism? So who the hell are these people, cited in the U.S. Department of State website? Foreign Terrorist Organizations


*(COMMENT)*

There is such an thing as the Bureau of Counterterrorism (CT), to the office of the Under Secretary for Civilian Security, Democracy, and Human Rights (J).  But this is not an operational activity; more diplomatic and administrative _(forge partnerships with non-state actors, multilateral organizations, and foreign governments)_.  It has no mission other than in developing coordinated strategies to defeat terrorists abroad and in securing the cooperation of international partners.  CT is a subset of CI (Counterintelligence).  CI is, by law [50 USC §401a(3)], the activity that tasked to *gather, and activities conducted, to protect against* espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, *foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or **international terrorist activities*.  The CT Bureau does NOT conduct active operations or activities to protect against international terrorism.  That belongs to the organizations in the IC that I previously mentioned.  CT Bureau of CSD&HR is not a member of the Intelligence Community.

Again, I stand corrected in the absolute sense *(I made a mistake)*.  There are many organizations in the Government which have a CT Office of some sort that merely makes plans based on being a consumer of CT information from active collectors in the IC.   The DoS, is the ultimate beaucracy in which they have splintered the CT role among several activities. The J/CT does maintain the FTO List, but it is not based on anything they did, but on the product of others with Law Enforcement and the IC.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 18, 2014)

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.


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## RoccoR (Sep 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  et al,

I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings.  So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.



P F Tinmore said:


> Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.


*(COMMENT)*

I do know that recommendations for inclusion on the list, must --- as a minimum, demonstrate how a candidate meets the following criteria established by law.

*Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code*

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:​

Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978)(FISA) defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the US with "totally" outside the US --- 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

(c)“International terrorism” means activities that—

(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended—
(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping; and​(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.​However, I am led to believe that there are other political and diplomatic considerations that also enter into the equation.  And, there are at times, CONFIDENTIAL determinations that find that it may not be in the best interest of the US to make a public or open determination that might hamper the detection, exploitation and neutralization of such a target.  I just know that --- as a minimum, the above criteria must be addressed before a recommendation would be favorably put forward for even consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 18, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings.  So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.
> 
> ...


Still nothing, huh?


----------



## Hossfly (Sep 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  et al,
> ...


You win, Dingleberry. There are no Palestinian terrorists. Now get your narrow butt to bed.


----------



## Rehmani (Sep 19, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


If you don't beleave in any holy book means you will remain arrogant or ignorant .
I also beleave that Mohammad PBUH never killed any thing.
Mohammad PBUH married to his friend's 9 years old daughter.
I will advise you again that please don't writ misunderstood story, find some Muslim scholar near you and take 8 C Al-Quran and these hadiths with you and correct your self.


----------



## Challenger (Sep 19, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  _et al,_
> 
> Well, you caught me in a tangle.  Technically I am wrong and apologize.  I guess I should have mentioned it since it was on the web page I linked to you in the previous comment.  I should have said; "there is no Bureau of Counterterrorism within the Department of State *that has an active roll in countering international terrorism*."
> 
> ...



Hey, don't worry about it. Makes us even for that "2 Egyptian Divisions in the Sinai" faux-pas of mine a while back. .


----------



## Youch (Sep 19, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.



Did you purposely miss the point?  Or the history of the area?  Judaism in Jerusalem pre-dated Christianity in Bethlehem by about a 1000 years, both of which pre-dated Islam in the region by a long shot.

Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate.  But that is long after the fact.  Meanwhile the real children and  inhabitants of the region have been obscured by anti-Semite academia.  Prove me wrong!

And who are the Samartins?  You mean the Samaritans?  

I hope you have an open mind about such things, as much can be poured in.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


----------



## montelatici (Sep 19, 2014)

Youch said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.
> ...



1. _"Judaism in Jerusalem pre-dated Christianity in Bethlehem by about a 1000 years, both of which pre-dated Islam in the region by a long shot."_

So what?  People change religions all the time.  If a group of people in Kenya convert  to mos maiorum it does not give them the right to settle in Rome and declare themselves a state.

2. The "real children and inhabitants of the region" are the people (descendants)  that have lived in the region for the last 4,000-5,000 years.  Converting to the most convenient religion does not change the people.

3. _"Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate."
_
As usual, Zionist horseshit.

"*There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people*, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race.* Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000*. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 
_
_


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## docmauser1 (Sep 19, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "*There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people*, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race.* Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. ...


"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill.


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## montelatici (Sep 19, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "*There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people*, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages.* Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race.* Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. ...
> ...



The Mandatory Interim Report, quoted above, was written in 1921, Churchill made the politically motivated statement (which was a lie) in 1939 to counter the Government's insistence that Jewish immigration to Palestine should be moderated to mitigate the local population's demonstrations against the takeover of their land.  A political statement is far less  reliable than official Government reports. If you would do more research you probably would not just spout nonsense without understanding the context.  Churchill was responding to this:

"'His Majesty's Government do not [..] find anything in the Mandate or in subsequent Statements of Policy to support the view that the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine cannot be effected unless immigration is allowed to continue indefinitely. If immigration has an adverse effect on the economic position in the country, it should clearly be restricted; and equally, if it has a seriously damaging effect on the political position in the country, that is a factor that should not be ignored. Although it is not difficult to contend that the large number of Jewish immigrants who have been admitted so far have been absorbed economically, *the fear of the Arabs that this influx will continue indefinitely until the Jewish population is in a position to dominate them has produced consequences which are extremely grave for Jews and Arabs *alike and for the peace and prosperity of Palestine."

*White Paper of 1939

The Avalon Project British White Paper of 1939*


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Challenger,  _et al,_
> 
> I think you made an assumption here, that is not in evidence.
> 
> ...


Load of crap, Rocco.

The US government does not give a rat's ass about law international or domestic. The best example is the Palestinian unity government of 2007. The unity government was legally elected and constituted according to constitutional mandates.

The US did not like this government so they fomented a coup. They coerced Abbas into this coup and supplied him with money, weapons, training and political support i.e. lies.

The coup failed in Gaza but was successful in illegally putting the losers of the elections back into power in the West Bank.

Fomenting a coup in another country is a violation of international law.

Supporting a government brought into power by coup is a violation of domestic law.


----------



## Challenger (Sep 19, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> ...Try looking in the mirror for the thick one, the latin kingdom of Jerusalem was a city state invented by some crusaders. Judea was in existence before the Roman Empire was thought of. And for your Information Judea was in Palestine.



Stop press! Phoney recognises the existance of Palestine 1000's of years ago


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

Challenger said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger,  _et al,_
> ...





 This one

18 U.S. Code 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists LII Legal Information Institute


(a) * Offense.— * Whoever provides material support or resources or conceals or disguises the nature, location, source, or ownership of material support or resources, knowing or intending that they are to be used in preparation for, or in carrying out, a violation of section 32, 37, 81, 175, 229, 351, 831, 842 (m) or (n), 844 (f) or (i), 930 (c), 956, 1091, 1114, 1116, 1203, 1361, 1362, 1363, 1366, 1751, 1992, 2155, 2156, 2280, 2281, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, 2332f, 2340A, or 2442 of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49, or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B) or in preparation for, or in carrying out, the concealment of an escape from the commission of any such violation, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life. A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.
Pub. L. 103–322, title XII, § 120005(a),Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2022; amended Pub. L. 104–132, title III, § 323,Apr. 24, 1996, 110 Stat. 1255; Pub. L. 104–294, title VI, §§ 601(b)(2), (s)(2), (3), 604 (b)(5),Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3498, 3502, 3506; Pub. L. 107–56, title VIII, §§ 805(a), 810(c), 811(f),Oct. 26, 2001, 115 Stat. 377, 380, 381; Pub. L. 107–197, title III, § 301(c),June 25, 2002, 116 Stat. 728; Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(a)(7), (c)(1), (e)(11),Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1807, 1808, 1811; Pub. L. 108–458, title VI, § 6603(a)(2), (b),Dec. 17, 2004, 118 Stat. 3762; Pub. L. 109–177, title I, § 110(b)(3)(B),Mar. 9, 2006, 120 Stat. 208; Pub. L. 111–122, § 3(d),Dec. 22, 2009, 123 Stat. 3481.)
Amendments

2009—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 111–122inserted “, 1091” after “956” and substituted “, 2340A, or 2442” for “, or 2340A”.
2006—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 109–177struck out “1993,” after “1992,”.
2004—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(a)(2)(B), which directed amendment of this section by inserting “or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B)” after “section 60123 (b) of title 49,”, was executed by making the insertion in subsec. (a) after “section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49,” to reflect the probable intent of Congress.
Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(a)(2)(A), struck out “or” before “section 46502”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 108–458, § 6603(b), reenacted heading without change and amended text generally. Prior to amendment, text read as follows: “In this section, the term ‘material support or resources’ means currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel, transportation, and other physical assets, except medicine or religious materials.”
2002—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(a)(7), (e)(11), struck out “2332c,” after “2332b,” and substituted “of an escape” for “or an escape”.
Pub. L. 107–197inserted “2332f,” before “or 2340A”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(c)(1), repealed amendment by Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(b)(2). See 1996 Amendment note below.
2001—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 107–56, § 811(f), inserted “or attempts or conspires to do such an act,” before “shall be fined”.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 810(c)(1), substituted “15 years” for “10 years”.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 810(c)(2), which directed substitution of “, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life.” for period, was executed by making the substitution for the period at end of the first sentence to reflect the probable intent of Congress and the intervening amendment by section 805(a)(1)(F) ofPub. L. 107–56. See below.
Pub. L. 107–56, § 805(a)(1)(F), inserted at end “A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.”
Pub. L. 107–56, §§ 805(a)(1)(A)–(E), struck out “, within the United States,” after “Whoever”, and inserted “229,” after “175,”, “1993,” after “1992,”, “, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284),” after “2340A of this title”, and “or 60123(b)” after “section 46502”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 107–56, § 805(a)(2), substituted “or monetary instruments or financial securities” for “or other financial securities” and inserted “expert advice or assistance,” after “training,”.
1996—Pub. L. 104–294, § 604(b)(5), amended directory language of Pub. L. 103–322, § 120005(a), which enacted this section.
Pub. L. 104–132amended section generally, reenacting section catchline without change and redesignating provisions which detailed what constitutes offense, formerly contained in subsec. (b), assubsec. (a), inserting references to sections 37, 81, 175, 831, 842, 956, 1362, 1366, 2155, 2156, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, and 2340A of this title, striking out references to sections 36, 2331, and 2339 of this title, redesignating provisions which define “material support or resource”, formerly contained in subsec. (a), assubsec. (b), substituting provisions excepting medicine or religious materials from definition for provisions excepting humanitarian assistance to persons not directly involved in violations, and struck out subsec. (c) which authorized investigations into possible violations, except activities involving First Amendment rights.
Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(s)(2), (3), inserted “930(c),” before “956,”, “1992,” before “2155,”, “2332c,” before “or 2340A of this title”, and “or an escape” after “concealment”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 104–294, § 601(b)(2), which directed substitution of “2332” for “2331”, “2332a” for “2339”, “37” for “36”, and “or an escape” for “of an escape” and which could not be executed after the general amendment by Pub. L. 104–132, was repealed by Pub. L. 107–273, § 4002(c)(1). See above.
Effective Date of 2002 Amendment

Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(c)(1),Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1808, provided that the amendment made by section 4002 (c)(1) is effective Oct. 11, 1996.
Effective Date of 1996 Amendment

Amendment by section 604(b)(5) ofPub. L. 104–294effective Sept. 13, 1994, see section 604(d) ofPub. L. 104–294, set out as a note under section 13 of this title.


----------



## Challenger (Sep 19, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Thanks for your input but RoocoR has already told me this and we've both moved on.


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 They may be transcripts of the originals but this does not mean they are legal documents, any more than a letter to Ban wishing him Happy Birthday is a legal document.

 Not at all using only one source is having no backup, as in robbing a bank without a getaway driver waiting outside. So where is your backup to the letters between interested parties entering into LAW ?


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  et al,
> ...






 All spelt out in plain English, is that were you are having the problems reading English.


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...







 All the details come from the Koran and hadiths, so are you saying the Koran is lying and that Mohamed lied in the hadiths. As I said I have spoken to Islamic clerics and they did not know what was written in the Koran and hadiths because they had been brainwashed into believing the spoken word only.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


How does that apply to people defending their country?


----------



## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 For starters it was a partisan source as the organisers of the conference are known and proven ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATERS. He lied in his opening sentence, and never stopped lying till the end. As for the water the Israelis get 17 litres a day because of good recycling, the arab muslims get 30 litres and steal 10 tines this amount. The P.A. should pay its electricity bills first or find itself cut off until it pays in full.

hamas still operates a 3 NOS system and have only this week re-iterated that they will never negotiate a peace with Israel, instead they will fight to the last person to force the Jews out of what they see as Palestinian land.


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Youch said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Once again an ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATRED piece of garbage that you have been told about is being used.]]

 The facts as written by a non partisan source





YearJewsChristiansMuslimsTotalFirst half 1st century CEMajority––~2,5005th centuryMinorityMajority–>1st centuryEnd 12th centuryMinorityMinorityMajority>22514th century before Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority22514th century after Black DeathMinorityMinorityMajority1501533–1539561451571690–169121121923218007222462751890435743253219149470525689192284715897521931175897601,03319476301431,1811,970Figures in thousands.


Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
[THEAD]
[/THEAD]
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 Did you read your link that destroyed so many of your claims about Israel and the Jews, things like this


 "Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that `Palestine is to become as Jewish as England is English.' His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated .... the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the (Balfour) Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded IN PALESTINE." 

 This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious and social organisations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact `national' characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognised to rest upon ancient historic connection

Under Article 6 of the Mandate, the Administration of Palestine, "while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced," is required to "facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions." Beyond this, the extent to which Jewish immigration into Palestine is to be permitted is nowhere defined in the Mandate. But in the Command Paper of 1922 it was laid down that for the fulfilment of the policy of establishing a Jewish National Home:
"it is necessary that the Jewish commun ity in Palestine should be able to increase its numbers by immigration. This immigration cannot be so great in volume as to exceed whatever may be the economic capacity of the country at the time to absorb new arrivals. It is essential to ensure that the immigrants should not be a burden upon the people of Palestine as a whole, and that they should not deprive any section of the present population of their employment."

The Administration of Palestine is required, under Article 6 of the Mandate, "while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced," to encourage "close settlement by Jews on the land," and no restriction has been imposed hitherto on the transfer of land from Arabs to Jews. The Reports of several expert Commissions have indictaed that, owing to the natural growth of the Arab population and the steady sale in recent years of Arab land to Jews, there is now in certain areas no room for further transfers of Arab land, whilst in some other areas such transfers of land must be restricted if Arab cultivators are to maintain their existing standard of life and a considerable landless Arab population is not soon to be created. In these circumstances, the High Commissioner will be given general powers to prohibit and regulate transfers of land. These powers will date from the publication of this statement of policy and the High Commissioner will retain them throughout the transitional period.


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > ...Try looking in the mirror for the thick one, the latin kingdom of Jerusalem was a city state invented by some crusaders. Judea was in existence before the Roman Empire was thought of. And for your Information Judea was in Palestine.
> ...





 Wrong Judea existed in common parlance right up to the present day, as my link shows. Palestine came into being under Roman occupation. The area know as Palestine included what was known as Judea up to the present day.


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## Phoenall (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






 It means they are terrorists if they act in any way like the definitions given. It is up to each individual nation to decide what they see as terrorist actions. Would you consider it terrorism if some hard core communists decided they wanted your state to be communist and they started cutting peoples heads off and raping children to force the population to give in to their wishes.
 While hamas targets children and uses civilians to protect its rocket launchers they will be for ever terrorist scum, neither of which can be said to be defending their country, as they don't have a country.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 19, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...





Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...





Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...





Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Jihad for God. And oh all those beautiful photos of beheadings.


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## RoccoR (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Well, we have to disagree here.



P F Tinmore said:


> The US government does not give a rat's ass about law international or domestic. The best example is the Palestinian unity government of 2007. The unity government was legally elected and constituted according to constitutional mandates.


*(COMMENT)*

Even so --- the People supported HAMAS.  HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization _(by multiple countries)_; and a self-proclaimed Jihadist group.  Remember:

The US pledges "to cooperate fully in the fight against terrorism, in accordance with our obligations under international law, in order to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, on the basis of the principle of extradite or prosecute, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of terrorist acts or provides safe havens."​
Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization which openly organizes, instigates, facilitates, participates in, finances, encourages and tolerates terrorist activities intended to be committed against other States (Israel) and its citizens.  HAMAS, through its subordinate activities and affiliated organizations, by designed had demonstrated it will provoke and encourage a threat to the peace, openly committed breach of the peace, and acts of aggression; through propaganda and direct action.



P F Tinmore said:


> The US did not like this government so they fomented a coup. They coerced Abbas into this coup and supplied him with money, weapons, training and political support i.e. lies.


*(COMMENT)*

So your contention _(even if the allegation is true)_ is that it is illegal to fight terrorism _(HAMAS as a multinational designated terrorist organization)_; it is illegal to carry-out the strategy, in the form of a resolution and an Annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288), the unique global instrument that will enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism?  



P F Tinmore said:


> The coup failed in Gaza but was successful in illegally putting the losers of the elections back into power in the West Bank.
> 
> Fomenting a coup in another country is a violation of international law.
> 
> Supporting a government brought into power by coup is a violation of domestic law.


*(COMMENT)*

Is it really?  Or is this part of the pro-HAMAS campaign strategy to alter the discussion by suggesting that HAMAS is not a criminal terrorist enterprise; but, some sort of legitimate government that pursues peace in accordance with the codification of the principles of international law concerning friendly relations and co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625)?  We see no evidence that HAMAS is pursuing peace.  What we see is the continuous instigation of conflict with the periodic restated mantra that "Jihad and the armed resistance is the right and real method for the liberation of Palestine, and the restoration of all the rights, together with, of course, all forms of political and diplomatic struggle including in the media, public and legal."  

It is not a _coup d'état_ that you describe; but rather a discreet means of combating a regional threat to peace.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> Even is the accusation was true, as you stated, all the Palestinian People did was form a government that is cooperating in full or in part, with a known and designated foreign terrorist organization



Hamas is a constitutionally protected political party in Palestine. The Palestinians do not buy into that third grade terrorist name calling.

By the way, you have never specified why those clowns designated Hamas to be terrorists.


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## montelatici (Sep 19, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Youch said:
> ...



Hasbara is continuously changing that table to suit their propaganda needs.  I think most will agreed that official government documents are more reliable.


Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Thanks for making my point Phoney.  It shows that the British were lying and in fact a Jewish state separate from Palestine was in fact, founded.  Something they said would never happen.


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## montelatici (Sep 19, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Well, we have to disagree here.
> 
> ...



The Palestinians, whoever they elect, have the same right to pursue liberation from occupation that the ANC had, the FLN (Algeria), that the Muhajedin had and that all national liberation movements have and have had.  Why should the Palestinians be treated differently?


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## RoccoR (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Pay attention.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

HAMAS and it associates PIJ _(et al)_ are a terrorist organization be cause it has a past history of criminal behaviors that include:

seriously intimidating a population, or
unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or
seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,

HAMAS history includes terrorist offences:
(a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;
(b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;
(c) kidnapping or hostage taking;
(d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility;
(e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;
(f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives;
(g) ...; indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks;
(h) ...;
(i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).

Again, your position is solely based on trying to establish a justification for the continuation of violence, rather than focusing on peace initiatives. 

This is very much a HAMAS type of approach.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## MJB12741 (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Isn't it just awful all those dead Palesttinians killed by Israel?  Golly gee, do you think maybe Hamas made a terriible mistake not accepting  Israel's plea to stop firing rocket misiles into  Israel to kill Israeli's?


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## Hossfly (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe so,Tinmore, and that's where your confusion starts. They ain't protected from Hellfire missles. You might wanna work on that.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Pay attention.
> 
> ...


The Palestinians have been seeking peace based on international law and UN resolutions for decades. Israel and it toadies have rejected all requests and opted for violence.



> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
> 
> ...


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## RoccoR (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Well this is very subjective.



P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians have been seeking peace based on international law and UN resolutions for decades. Israel and it toadies have rejected all requests and opted for violence.


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinians have been demanding their way for several decades.  They attempt to use the evolution of western law over time to suggest that the Partition Plan and the establishment of the State of Israel is some sort of violation of this or that in order to justify their continued Jihadist activities.

The Arab Palestinian is not in search of peace, but in the capitulation to their demands they made over a half century ago.  They attempt through twisting the west principles, concepts and laws, to justify that which they failed to achieve in conflict.  The have never demonstrated that first set towards good faith negotiations and peaceful solutions.

While the wisdom of some of the decisions that Israel has made, over time, has been questioned --- and while it might be unreasonable for any nation to adhere to every nuance, principle, protocol and law in an armed struggle for its existence over such a duration of time, Israel is by far, the more moral and ethical party to the conflict.  The Arab-Palestinian even now, uses periods of peace to replenish their means to pursue Jihad, and uses periods of conflict to bait and trap Israel in legal dilemma and propaganda targets.  HAMAS did not agree to a ceasefire because it was the right thing to do, but because they were exhausted and on the edge of being severely crippled.

But in no way can it be said that HAMAS (or any other Palestinian movement) has been "seeking peace based on international law and UN resolutions for decades."  They incite a conflict, they fight until the hurt, then they call for peace and declare victory.  This is their standard model for the perpetual victim --- start the fight and then call foul.  Never has the history of the people been more cowardly then they are today.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## montelatici (Sep 19, 2014)

The Palestinians are doing what, since the late 15th century, people have always done when their homes and land are taken from them by settlers/invaders.  The Native Americans resisted and fought for many decades until they were ethnically cleansed and moved into gulags called reservations where alcoholism and other ills have made most of them a passive population that accepts an existence financed by handouts from the descendants of the settlers/invaders.  The indigenous people of Australia put up little or no resistance and have suffered the same fate as the Native Americans making it clear that the settler/invader will seek to achieve total domination regardless of the approach taken by the indigenous people.

Indigenous people that have successfully prevented complete domination have almost always utilized violent resistance to achieve national liberation unless overwhelming positive demographic factors have allowed them to regain control of their land through democratic means such as the cases of Ecuador and Bolivia.  Often, however, negative demographics (from the indigenous people's point of view) through genocide or assimilation have resulted in the disappearance of the indigenous culture and people as in Chile, Argentina, Brazil etc.

Ireland is an interesting case.  Through continued resistance and violence, the indigenous people were able to regain most of their land and independence, notwithstanding strong opposition of what was, at the time, a leading world power.  Without the violence and resistance (which the UK deemed terrorism) which made life uncomfortable for the settlers/invaders, there would have probably have been continued settlement by the English and Scots and it is doubtful there would be a Republic of Ireland today.  Of course everyone knows about the South African and Rhodesian models. In both cases, a combination of violent resistance and international sanctions resulted in success for the indigenous people in regaining their land.

To single out the Palestinians for resisting the transfer of their land and homes to European settlers is not only unfair, it is a clear cut case of racism.  Why should the Palestinians be asked to timidly accept their ethnic cleansing without resistance?  Is there a difference between the Spaniards and Portuguese, authorized by the Pope to settle and invade the New World any different from the UN authorizing the European Jews to settle and invade Palestine?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Well this is very subjective.
> 
> ...


...IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES...

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948


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## RoccoR (Sep 19, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

These are some big tears.  



montelatici said:


> The Palestinians are doing what, since the late 15th century, people have always done when their homes and land are taken from them by settlers/invaders.  The Native Americans resisted and fought for many decades until they were ethnically cleansed and moved into gulags called reservations where alcoholism and other ills have made most of them a passive population that accepts an existence financed by handouts from the descendants of the settlers/invaders.  The indigenous people of Australia put up little or no resistance and have suffered the same fate as the Native Americans making it clear that the settler/invader will seek to achieve total domination regardless of the approach taken by the indigenous people.


*(COMMENT)*

The world has come a long way since the political, colonial, expansionist, and revolutionary thinking of the 16th and 17th century.  History is what it is.  And in cases of technically superior over the inferior cultures, the shadow of that thinking still exists.  But that is not justification for a 21st culture attempting to apply failed strategies of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.  I'm sure you would prefer some other fate than that of the American Indian or the Aborigines of Australia.



montelatici said:


> Indigenous people that have successfully prevented complete domination have almost always utilized violent resistance to achieve national liberation unless overwhelming positive demographic factors have allowed them to regain control of their land through democratic means such as the cases of Ecuador and Bolivia.  Often, however, negative demographics (from the indigenous people's point of view) through genocide or assimilation have resulted in the disappearance of the indigenous culture and people as in Chile, Argentina, Brazil etc.


*(COMMENT)*

That has nothing to do with the "Question of Palestine."  The Arab Palestinian are not in danger of genocide.  In fact their numbers are increasing, not decreasing.  The tear jerking attempt to associate the plight of the Arab Palestinian with the fate of faded cultures of three and four centuries ago is merely a bit for sympathy.  In stead of the Arab Palestinian having the fortitude to pick themselves up, shake themselves off --- dust-off the dirt and start building a new nation (something that they and their children can be proud of, --- they instead adopted the way of Jihad.  



montelatici said:


> Ireland is an interesting case.  Through continued resistance and violence, the indigenous people were able to regain most of their land and independence, notwithstanding strong opposition of what was, at the time, a leading world power.  Without the violence and resistance (which the UK deemed terrorism) which made life uncomfortable for the settlers/invaders, there would have probably have been continued settlement by the English and Scots and it is doubtful there would be a Republic of Ireland today.  Of course everyone knows about the South African and Rhodesian models. In both cases, a combination of violent resistance and international sanctions resulted in success for the indigenous people in regaining their land.


*(COMMENT)*

This is merely an attempt to justify a continuing level of Jihad.  This has nothing to do with the Occupied Territories.  The differences between the 6 Northern Counties of Ireland and the south are largely religious in nature.  The case of South Africa was a case of racial segregation.  Rhodesia was a compilation of issues.  Needless to say, the Rhodesian model culminated into a naturally evolving two-state solution.  

But again, this is merely another Arab Palestinian justification for a continued "violent resistance."  In fact, nothing you've said thus far, even remotely sounds like and Arab Palestinian attempting to achieve a solution through peaceful means.  It is all about why the Arab Palestinian should use violence; throwing a tantrum because the world isn't fair.  It is again an extension of their past practice of choosing violence over peaceful means.  And it is why --- that ultimately --- the Arab Palestinians will be a failed state.  They haven't the knowledge, skills and abilities (let alone the cultural drive) to start a nation building process.  (Put down the weapons, stop crying, and pick-up the shovel; start building.  

“The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”  _― Lao Tzu_​



montelatici said:


> To single out the Palestinians for resisting the transfer of their land and homes to European settlers is not only unfair, it is a clear cut case of racism.  Why should the Palestinians be asked to timidly accept their ethnic cleansing without resistance?  Is there a difference between the Spaniards and Portuguese, authorized by the Pope to settle and invade the New World any different from the UN authorizing the European Jews to settle and invade Palestine?


*(COMMENT)*

Again with the whining over a decision that was made a half-century ago and fought over.  Get over it.  Right, wrong or otherwise, it was a decision made. 


Excerpt:
_Recalling_ its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947,
_Affirms_ its determination to contribute to the achievement of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and the attainment of a peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967 and fulfils the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders;  [A/67/L.28 --- 26 November 2012]​Now it is time for the Arab Palestinian to build a "viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security with Israel" so that you can achieve something negotiated that will start on the basis of the pre-1967 borders.  Establish some credibility and come together on a workable solution that is a benefit to both parties.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## RoccoR (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Yes, the All Palestine Government.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

I think you will find that the All Palestine Government was a puppet regime of the Egyptians, and that it was dissolved by the Egyptians.  It never represented the Arab Palestinians.  At that time, the Arab Palestinian was represented by the Arab Higher Committee.

But in any event, the Israeli's Declared Independence several months earlier, and in accordance with the UN "Steps Preparatory to Independence."  This is a case of the Egyptian APG trying to declare Independence on the territory as already recognized as Israel.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## MJB12741 (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...





P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...




OMG!  I didn't know "the Palestinians have been seelking peace for decades based on UN reolutions."  Was the rejection of UN resolution 181 & the election of Hamas part of this noble peace loving effort by the Palestinians?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, the All Palestine Government.
> 
> ...


So?The Jewish Agency, that declared Israel's independence, is a foreign organization that is the puppet of the foreign World Zionist Organization. There were no natives involved in the creation of this government. A government draws its legitimacy from the will of the people. The creation of Israel was with the virtually unanimous rejection of the people. The "legitimacy" of Israel is not by the will of the people but at the point of a gun by foreigners.


> 1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
> 
> The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration





> But in any event, the Israeli's Declared Independence several months earlier, and in accordance with the UN "Steps Preparatory to Independence."  This is a case of the Egyptian APG trying to declare Independence on the territory as already recognized as Israel.


That doesn't matter. Where the Treaty of Lausanne transferred land from Turkey to Palestine there was no land transferred from Palestine to Israel.



> Most Respectfully,
> R


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## RoccoR (Sep 19, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

I think you are confused.  The Turkish Government did not transfer any land to anyone; especial in the Treay of Lausanne.



P F Tinmore said:


> So?The Jewish Agency, that declared Israel's independence, is a foreign organization that is the puppet of the foreign World Zionist Organization. There were no natives involved in the creation of this government. A government draws its legitimacy from the will of the people. The creation of Israel was with the virtually unanimous rejection of the people. The "legitimacy" of Israel is not by the will of the people but at the point of a gun by foreigners.


*(COMMENT)*

First, the Zionist Organization (ZO) is NOT a foreign Government.  It is a global common cause organization that is, where ever it sits in its enclave or Congress sits in meeting.

The relationship between the Jewish Agency of Israel and the ZO was a requirement set and recognized by the Allied Powers.  (Article 4 of the Mandate) The Jewish Agency, formerly known as the Palestine Office, existed before the Occupation and Mandate.  It functioned under the Ottoman Empire as the conduit to the Sultan, to aid Jewish immigration, and to buy land for Jews to settle.  The Jewish Agency was an Indigenous Operation well before the Allied Powers became involved.  Not as you say, a foreign puppet.  



P F Tinmore said:


> That doesn't matter. Where the Treaty of Lausanne transferred land from Turkey to Palestine there was no land transferred from Palestine to Israel.


*(COMMENT)*

The Treaty does not transfer any land or territory, _per se_.  Turkey relinquishes its control over the territories; thus it falls into the hands of the Occupation Powers. 

Palestine is not even mentioned in the Treaty; not once.  What the treaty says is: (Article 30)

"Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become _ipsofacto_, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred."​
The Allied Powers determined the transfer.  The treaty does not.  In the case of Palestine, the decision was already made by the Allied Powers to place the territory in the Mandate System some four years (San Remo Convention) before the Treaty of Lausanne went into force.  At San Remo, the foundation of what was to become the "Mandate for Palestine" was laid out.  The Treaty of Lausanne changed nothing in regard to the administration.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Rehmani (Sep 20, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


No, you did not talk to any Muslim cleric. Second if you have wrong version of Al-Quran and Hadiths and then you called to Muslim scholar that their brain washed then I will say that you only want argument for the sack of arguments to satisfy your self that the negative image you have about Islam, if this the case then no one can satisfy you.
What I learn about you, first you call your self either christian or jewish and then you told me that you don't beleave in any holly book and now sound like you are proving that you are hypocrite if this is the case then I leave to you here that you are paid poster who's job to drive propaganda against Islam and make some money.


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## Rehmani (Sep 20, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...



Yes I agreed, this is not Islam and I condemned it. But unfortunately when two people fight, one innocent killed or at least one of them is innocent. I hope and wish some day mankind live as one mankind and one nation.

I will advise to whole world especially to Muslim at the moment that please when you become part of an army then you should know that what are the rules set by Islam for a Muslim army that don't hurt civilian and especially these generalist who put their life on risk to bring the facts about you. Other vise how come world know your issues or concern.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 20, 2014)

*"Who Is Occupying Who's Land?"*

One way to look at this would be to ask the question:  _"If Palestinians reclaimed ALL of Palestine, with Israelis either leaving for the US and Europe or blending into Palestinian society, would the world think that Palestinians had reclaimed their land, or were occupying Israel?"_

It's clear that the world, even most of the USA would think, "Well, that's THAT colonialist project busted."

So its pretty clear.


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## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 Because of their TERRORISM, both at home and abroad.    Firing rockets at civilians to force them to change the laws and capitulate is terrorism. Digging tunnels under schools and filling them with H.E. is terrorism. Eating parts of a captured soldier is terrorism. All are done by hamas.


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## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...




 These are official government figures

 They show that you are completely clueless as to who had the right to live in Palestine, and who were the illegal immigrants stealing land.


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## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...






 Yes through the courts and UN not by using terrorism. Unless you also want to extend that to the Israelis as well and allow them to retaliate with terrorism


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## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...






 AND ! ! ! !     Now show were anyone is taking away the Palestinians right to free determination

 Hamas refuse all calls for peace it is part of their constitution.


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## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...






 It is islam as the Koran tells muslims to sever the heads of their enemies to strike fear in their hearts. Over 200 verses in the Koran compelling muslims to be violent blood thirsty savages. Over 10 million innocent civilians murdered by muslim armies acting on the commands in the Koran in the last 66 years. that is the rules set by islam for anyone who wants to read the Koran.


----------



## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> *"Who Is Occupying Who's Land?"*
> 
> One way to look at this would be to ask the question:  _"If Palestinians reclaimed ALL of Palestine, with Israelis either leaving for the US and Europe or blending into Palestinian society, would the world think that Palestinians had reclaimed their land, or were occupying Israel?"_
> 
> ...





 Actually under customary international law the UN would be forced to proclaim that the arab muslims had committed a grave crime and a task force would be sent to take back the land for the Jews. You see Israel is the only nation granted status in International law and it is inviolate. And Palestine as a nation does not exist until it agrees to peace and mutual borders.


----------



## Youch (Sep 20, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Youch said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Methinks your closed mind makes a habit of missing the point, history, facts and geography.  And, your citations are highly skewed.  As I stated before, open your mind.  If Jerusalem is the birthplace of Judaism, long before Islam migrated to it, your position is illogical.  You talk about "people changing religions all the time" makes no sense whatsoever.  I think you should change your avatar.


----------



## montelatici (Sep 20, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> These are some big tears.
> 
> ...



Balderdash, attempting to justify Israeli neocolonialism as somehow different than, for example, than the Huguenots settling in South Africa to escape Catholic pogroms against them.  There is no difference Bozo, your comments just demonstrate your racial hate for  arabs.  Funny thing is you are probably a good bit Arab given your southern Italian heritage. Self-hating Arab?


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 20, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,  _et al,_
> ...



The overwhelming majority of Palestinians are just squatters on Israel's land for generations with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.


----------



## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,  _et al,_
> ...





 As your own link showed there was never any colonialism neo or old outside of your fantasy world. The arab muslims lost all control and ownership of the land in 1099 and never regained control or ownership since. At the end of WW1 the land was transferred from Ottoman control and ownership to LoN control and ownership. It was never transferred to the rag tag group of arab nuslims that term themselves "Palestinians"


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## docmauser1 (Sep 20, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> “The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”  _― Lao Tzu_​


"The journey of a thousand lies begins with a single palistanian occupation." - DocMauser.


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## montelatici (Sep 20, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



Your history is so far off it doesn't deserve a comment.  As far as colonialism:

"The policy or practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country, occupying it with settlers, and exploiting it economically."

That's exactly what the European Jews did.


----------



## Phoenall (Sep 20, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 They were invited to migrate and settle by the lands LEGAL OWNERS, so they were not occupying the land with settlers they were populating the land given to them by its LEGAL OWNERS.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 20, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


*Not true.*

Neither the LoN nor the mandate had possession of any land.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 20, 2014)

On & on we go arguing over who's land it is.  The bottom line always comes out the same.  Any & all land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  As an examople, is the town of Vilna Russian, Polish or Lithuanian?  Answer --- all three answers are correct depending on the time reference.

As for Israel, as long as the land is ruled by Israel, the land is Israel's.  Palestinian squatters should not be allowed to remain in Israel.  Deal with it


----------



## Youch (Sep 20, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> On & on we go arguing over who's land it is.  The bottom line always comes out the same.  Any & all land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  As an examople, is the town of Vilna Russian, Polish or Lithuanian?  Answer --- all three answers are correct depending on the time reference.
> 
> As for Israel, as long as the land is ruled by Israel, the land is Israel's.  Palestinian squatters should not be allowed to remain in Israel.  Deal with it




Some consider it an immigration issue. While narrowly true, it ignores the intolerant hatred behind the jihad and caliphate.  "Squatters" is but a very small part of the larger issue.

Extermination is never a good thing, regardless of who holds the deed.


----------



## MJB12741 (Sep 20, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> On & on we go arguing over who's land it is.  The bottom line always comes out the same.  Any & all land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  As an examople, is the town of Vilna Russian, Polish or Lithuanian?  Answer --- all three answers are correct depending on the time reference.
> 
> As for Israel, as long as the land is ruled by Israel, the land is Israel's.  Palestinian squatters should not be allowed to remain in Israel.  Deal with it



Let us consider all of the stolen Muslim lands of today.  Golly gee, whatever happened to the indigenous Pesians?  From the glory & grandeur of Persepolis under Zoroastrian rule to the slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.


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## Hossfly (Sep 20, 2014)

Youch said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > On & on we go arguing over who's land it is.  The bottom line always comes out the same.  Any & all land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  As an examople, is the town of Vilna Russian, Polish or Lithuanian?  Answer --- all three answers are correct depending on the time reference.
> ...


I don't think MJB suggested extermination.


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## Youch (Sep 20, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Youch said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Didn't say he did.  The President of Iran, the creed of Hezbollah and Hamas, and now ISIS, are all on record of saying so.  My point was, this isn't just about squatters.


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## RoccoR (Sep 20, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You still don't get it.



P F Tinmore said:


> *Not true.*
> 
> Neither the LoN nor the mandate had possession of any land.


*(COMMENT)*

The Ottoman/Turkish Government relinquished sovereignty to the Allied Powers who maintained the effective control (Occupied the territory).

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Hossfly (Sep 20, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You still don't get it.
> 
> ...


Rocco, I have to inform you that Tinmore takes night rides on flying horses, traveling around Palestine.


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## Phoenall (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 Try again as the treaty of surrender clearly states that ownership of the land was to be transferred as reparations for war. It was the last time that it happened, and it was not just in the M.E. were this happened. It also happened in Europe and the far East with land that was placed under mandate. The only body that could realistically control the ownership was the LoN so it passed into their hands under CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW.


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## Rehmani (Sep 21, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



It is also Al-Quran and Islam who tell to Muslim and the world be discipline, anger control,urinate by sitting and alcohol control and be God fearing, be respect women,children,elders and poorer and it is also Islam who establish world first welfare state 1400 years ago when rest of the was facing dark age. It is also Islam who establish world first multicultural and multireligion state in Jerusalem 900 years ago. It is also Islam who establish women rights 1400 years ago. 

AND MORE IF YOU OPEN YOUR NEGATIVE MIND, BE POSITIVE NEGATIVE COME IT SELF BUT IF YOU ARE NEGATIVE YOU CAN NOT SEE POSITIVE THINGS IN ISLAM.


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## Kondor3 (Sep 21, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...


There is no question that Islam had a Golden Age in which it helped greatly to preserve the knowledge and learning of the Classical or Antiquity Age(s), and in which its scholars made great advances in medicine, science, philosophy and commerce.

The world owes Islam a debt of gratitude for that preservative and advancing work, done during the period of circa 800-1200 A.D.

Trouble is, Islam is susceptible to violence, internally and externally, at an atypically high level, and is more worldly than spiritual in nature, and it quickly fragmented into several power centers and lost its spiritual and intellectual and scientific and political momentum, and ended its Golden Age as a degenerate, despicable and emasculated creature which could no longer project effective political or military or intellectual power, by the time that Europe finally pulled itself out of its Dark and Middle Ages, and went abroad in the world again.

Islam made the mistake of letting its internal squabbling (arguments) get out of control, and of resting for too long on its past glories and laurels, and of not staying current, and allowing the world to pass it by, and becoming a backward, primitive and stagnant cultural and political and spiritual system.

It is only now - within living memory - that Islam is beginning to re-awaken, after centuries of European colonial imperialism and exploitation that early Muslims would have laughed-at and cried-over and spat-upon their descendants for - and Islam is beginning to understand just how far behind the rest of the world that it allowed itself to fall, in the past several hundred years - an awareness made all the more bitter and arriving all the more quickly, courtesy of great advances in communications and technology.

Islam will be playing catch-up for another hundred years or more, but, unlike previous eras in history, the advent of high-end technology, nuclear weaponry, etc.,mean that the rest of the world cannot wait for Islam to catch-up, and that the rest of the world will continue to keep a close eye on Islam, encouraging advances in many areas, but actively discouraging and even inhibiting re-militarization in this new era which might otherwise threaten the rest of the world and the general peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Sep 21, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You still don't get it.
> 
> ...


Not true. Sovereignty is in the hands of the people. This was implied in the LoN Covenant.


> Popular sovereignty in its modern sense, that is, including all the people and not just noblemen, is an idea that dates to the social contracts school (mid-17th to mid-18th centuries), represented by Thomas Hobbes (1588–1679), John Locke (1632–1704), and Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712–1778), author of _The Social Contract_, a prominent political work that clearly highlighted the ideals of "general will" and further matured the idea of popular sovereignty. The central tenet is that legitimacy of rule or of law is based on the consent of the governed. Popular sovereignty is thus a basic tenet of most democracies.
> 
> Popular sovereignty - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


The sovereignty was transferred to the people of the respective new countries. This has been reiterated in the UN Charter and subsequent resolutions.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



Right on.  So what do you have against Israeli sovereignty?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 21, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Not much really. Let us assume that Israel is a legitimate state. According to international law, all of the people who normally lived in the territory that became Israel would automatically become citizens of that successor state.

That means that *all* of the Palestinians who normally lived in what became Israel including the refugees are Israeli citizens. The legitimacy of a government is based on the consent of the governed.

When is Israel going to have elections where *all* of its citizens are allowed to vote?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Let us not forget that Muslim Palestinian citizens of Israel are even represented in the Israeli Knesset with equal voting rights.  So how many Christians or Jews are represented in Arab country governments with equal voting rights?


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## Hossfly (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Israel is illegitimate? Who woulda thunk it?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 21, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


Besides Palestine?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 21, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Interesting how modern day Israel was approved by a legal & ethical vote of the member nations of the UN.  And yet every Muslim country was established by force & land theft where the native populations were given a choice of convert, leave or be killed.


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## RoccoR (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You will have to teach me here.

Sovereignty is mentioned twice in the UN Charter: 

(Article 2) The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
1. The Organization is based on the principle of the *sovereign* equality of all its Members.

(Article 78)  The trusteeship system shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality.
Likewise, Self Determination is mentioned twice in the UN Charter:

(Article 1)  2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
(Article 55)  With a view to the creation of conditions of stability and well-being which are necessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, the United Nations shall promote:
a. higher standards of living, full employment, and conditions of economic and social progress and development;
b. solutions of international economic, social, health, and related problems; and inter-national cultural and educational cooperation; and
c. universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion.​
Similarly, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (A/RES/3/217 A) mentions sovereignty once, and self determination not at all:

(Article 2) Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
The Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625) is probably the most important document and guidance on the subject of self-determination, sovereign equality.



P F Tinmore said:


> The sovereignty was transferred to the people of the respective new countries. This has been reiterated in the UN Charter and subsequent resolutions.


*(STIPULATIONS)*

I make the following stipulations such that these issues will not derail the overall discussion on the issue of sovereignty and independece.

That it is the majority assumption held by the General Assembly, that "the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan are illegal and an obstacle to peace and economic and social development." (A/RES/68/82 16 December 2013)

That the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, is applicable to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and other Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967.  (A/RES/68/81  16 December 2013)
*(OBSERVATIONS)*

Probably the most significant UN Resolution that is specific to our discussion of Palestinian "independence/sovereignty" and the "right of self-determination" was adopted (A/67/L.28) 26 November 2012 when it accords to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations.  This landmark decision made a couple of significant observations which are controversial in some discussions relative to the meaning of Palestine:

The objective are to:
Achieve a "peaceful settlement in the Middle East that ends the occupation that began in 1967."
That the settlements fulfill the vision of two States: an independent, sovereign, democratic, contiguous and viable State of Palestine.


To achieve "peace and security with Israel on the basis of the pre-1967 borders."

Promote the "resumption and acceleration of negotiations within the Middle East peace process."

The ultimate goal is to achieve a "lasting and comprehensive peace settlement between the Palestinian and Israeli sides that resolves all outstanding core issues, namely the Palestine refugees, Jerusalem, settlements, borders, security and water."
*(COMMENT)*

The idea that "sovereignty" was "transferred to the people of the respective new countries" is contradictory to what sovereignty is.  In order for sovereignty to transfer, it has to change hands from one governmental power to another.  In the case of Palestine, the government, for all intent and purpose, was NOT the indigenous population, but that of the power which had and exercised control.  That is not to say that it was transferred to the Allied Powers.  In fact sovereignty was not transferred at all.  Rather, under the treaty, the Ottoman/Turkish Government relinquished their sovereignty, abandoning the territories to the control of the Allied Powers. 

The Allied Powers of the 1920's never questioned the the Declaration of Human Rights (1948), or the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (1970), simply because they had not been codified yet; not for anther quarter century in on case and a half century in the later case.  In fact, the DOP-ILFRCS was not codified until after the 1967 war.

Another problem with the assumption that "Sovereignty is in the hands of the people," is that in reality it was not.  It is all well and good to express concepts on paper.  But it is all together a different think when it is made real - or - blocked from exercise.  If the People of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Palestine, were sovereignty in their hands --- the completion of the Middle East would be very different today.  In fact, none of these countries had total independence from the respective mandates until the end of WWII. 

Today, the UN recognizes the State of Palestine within one set of boundaries (pre-1967 War boundaries).  But there are factions of Jihadist and Fedayeen that insist that Palestine is:

Example HAMAS Position Paper 2013:
1. Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim.​
Example Palestine National Charter of 1968:
Article 1. Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the greater Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Article 2: Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.​You (P F Tinmore) often expressed the concept that Israel is inside the borders of Palestine, and have steadfastly held to that conviction.  Yet, there are elements of the Palestinian Movements that have adopted an ambiguous version that sounds like the UN version but is craftily worded so as to not contradict the charter:  The PLO Negotiations Affairs Department (NAD) states that:


The 1967 border is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the oPt.
Israel has no valid claim to any part of the West Bank or Gaza Strip. However, in the interest of peace, we have been willing to discuss minor, equitable, and mutually-agreed territorial exchanges should we decide that it is in our interest to do so.

It is important to note that the Palestinians have declared independence and have exercised the right to self-determination (twice).  They have been yet to establish the stand-alone government.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Phoenall (Sep 21, 2014)

Rehmani said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Rehmani said:
> ...






 When you take the verses out that are like this one

 And strike their heads from their shoulders to put fear in their heart until there is only islam

from the Koran and peoples minds then you might be listened to. But while you leave those near 300 verses in the Koran it will be viewed as a terrorists manual.


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## Phoenall (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...






 Correct the new countries of Trans Jordan, Iraq and Syria but not Palestine as Palestine was deliberately left out of the treaty. So the arab muslims never were given any land to make into a Palestinian state, in fact they did not refer to themselves as Palestinians until the 1960's


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## Phoenall (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







 Wrong as any people that lived on the land that were hostile to the government could be executed, incarcerated or expelled. This happened in the US and UK during WW2 when Italians, Germans and Japanese were expelled or incarcerated as hostile citizens, with a few getting executed for crimes against the state and treason. Part of customary international law


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## Penelope (Sep 21, 2014)

who in the heck are jews, read EZRA, intermarriage problem.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 21, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You will have to teach me here.


OK, I will. Or at least I will try.



> Sovereignty is mentioned twice in the UN Charter:
> 
> (Article 2) The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
> 1. The Organization is based on the principle of the *sovereign* equality of all its Members.
> ...


​"Peoples" is an interesting term. Person is singular. People is plural. What are peoples? "A people" is a group of people who share a defining characteristic. Usually, but not always, that characteristic is residing inside a defined territory. The French are a people. The British are a people. The Palestinians are a people. Collectively they are peoples. These are all nations of people.

Note that they use the term nations, not states. See political status below.


> Similarly, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (A/RES/3/217 A) mentions sovereignty once, and self determination not at all:
> 
> (Article 2) Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. *Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.*




Note that a state or sovereign nation is not a requirement to possess these rights. When the propagandists say that Palestine was never a state, blah, blah, blah, that really doesn't matter. It is irrelevant.


> The Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625) is probably the most important document and guidance on the subject of self-determination, sovereign equality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Hossfly (Sep 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


Help me out here, Tinmore. When the little hand is on the 10 and the big hand is on the 9, what time is it ?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 21, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


9:45


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## RoccoR (Sep 21, 2014)

Paul,



P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Help me out here, Tinmore. When the little hand is on the 10 and the big hand is on the 9, what time is it ?
> ...



Maybe 9:55

v/r
R


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## montelatici (Sep 21, 2014)

The basic fact is that people from Europe went to Palestine and expelled many of the people  that were living there,  that happened to be Muslim and Christian.  If anyone, including Rocco, can deny this fact, bring it on.


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## toastman (Sep 21, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The basic fact is that people from Europe went to Palestine and expelled many of the people  that were living there,  that happened to be Muslim and Christian.  If anyone, including Rocco, can deny this fact, bring it on.



The fact that you see the situation so simple like you just said, shows how brainwashed you are and how much you distort history..


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## Rehmani (Sep 22, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Rehmani said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



You only talking nonsense and criticizing Islam and using me because you know I am Muslim and I don't know  what your beleave is, as I told you that you are hypocrite and sound you like you are in India.
If you come up front with your religion, if you have any. Then I will fix up your nonsense and then you will learn how smelly you are from the back and from the front.
If you are jewish which I doubt it. But one thing for sure you are paid tout and you are making your living by spreading hate, insulting others and others religions, and spreading misunderstanding among people, how cruel you are you know that you are living evil in human body. You Should be sham full on your life.


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## Phoenall (Sep 22, 2014)

And the Palestinians do posses these rights and have since they laid false claim to the land. The problems arise when the arab muslims refuse to take up these rights and expect others to do all the work for them. They declared independence in 1988 and have done nothing the exercise their rights since. They demand that Israel stops occupying the land yet will not meet to discus the legal aspects that are needed to put an end to the occupation. Get the Palestinians to exercise their rights and stick to CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW and we will see an end to the fighting and occupation


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## Phoenall (Sep 22, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The basic fact is that people from Europe went to Palestine and expelled many of the people  that were living there,  that happened to be Muslim and Christian.  If anyone, including Rocco, can deny this fact, bring it on.






WRONG as the people from Europe did not expel anyone, it was the arab muslims that expelled the Jews from their homes in the M.E. Over 1 million Jews were forcibly expelled from their homes in just the clothes they wore. Many of the people living there were hostile and terrorists so they were evicted from Israel in 1948/1949 under CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW. The true Palestinians stayed in Israel and their descendants are still there to this day as full Israeli citizens. The Christians have faced recent ethnic cleansing in gaza and the west bank at the hands of the arab muslims who have reduced the population from 12% down to 2%.   want to argue about these facts child as the evidence is available freely.


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## Phoenall (Sep 22, 2014)

I am an Anglican from the birth place of Anglicanism. I have walked the same pastures as Jesus did before islam was invented by the psychotic camel herder.


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## montelatici (Sep 22, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The basic fact is that people from Europe went to Palestine and expelled many of the people  that were living there,  that happened to be Muslim and Christian.  If anyone, including Rocco, can deny this fact, bring it on.
> ...



How is this basic fact not a fact?  How is it a distortion of the fact when states that people from Europe went to Palestine and expelled many of the people that were living there?  It is you that is attempting to distort, justify or otherwise disguise what actually happened.


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## montelatici (Sep 22, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The basic fact is that people from Europe went to Palestine and expelled many of the people  that were living there,  that happened to be Muslim and Christian.  If anyone, including Rocco, can deny this fact, bring it on.
> ...



"WRONG as the people from Europe did not expel anyone"

What is the difference between expelling and evicting?  You continue to just make things up.  You are one nutcase bullshitter, that's for sure.  There is no evidence you silly little man, if there were you would provide it.  You just mouth off a bunch of nonsense.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 22, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Now now Monte, calm down.  You'll give yourself a sroke or something.  And we need you here for laughs.


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## montelatici (Sep 22, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



You are the one that is seething, can't deny fact and it is frustrating isn't it. LOL .  Projection doesn't work well, it's too obvious. Try harder.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 22, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



HUH???  I am so glad you are here.  So little left for us to laugh at while those you support are killing us infidels all over the world.  Thank you sir,


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## montelatici (Sep 22, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Well, projecting doesn't work, nor does lying. I am supporting the Palestinians, especially the Christians, who are being killed and oppressed by the Israeli Jews because they are Gentiles.  You support the killing of Gentile children by murderous Israelis. It is you that haven't an answer to fact.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 22, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



HUH???  Is this what you are referring to?  I never knew they are Israeli's.  Amazing what we can learn from Monte.

ISIS to Christians in Mosul convert pay or die 8211 CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs


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## montelatici (Sep 22, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> when everyone in Gaza knows how all of Israel would happily destroy them,.




Well, since Israel has had the capacity to do just that for decades and hasn't done so, perhaps it is time for the Arabs to turn their attention to building a viable society instead of focusing so much on their delusions.

 There are ancient Jewish sites in Gaza that predate Islam, yet there are now no Jews left in Gaza.  As far as who has succeeded in destroying who here, perhaps a little reality check is in order.


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## montelatici (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > when everyone in Gaza knows how all of Israel would happily destroy them,.
> ...




There can't be  viable society until the occupation and blockade ends.  Israel has never had the capacity to totally eliminate the non-Jews without facing debilitating sanctions that the U.S. could not prevent.  A little reality check would do the Jews a lot of good.  They now control a non-Jewish population equal or a bit larger than the Jewish population.  Within a generation the non-Jewish population will be a sizable majority.  How long will Israeli Jews be able to control and oppress this non-Jewish population without resultant blow back?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...



The solution is to remove all Palestinian squatters without any titles or deeds who are occupying Israel's land.  Don't you agree?


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> The solution is to remove all Palestinian squatters without any titles or deeds who are occupying Israel's land.  Don't you agree?



 I don't really know if there is a solution given all the hatred, but the notion of titles and deeds does trace much of the conflict back to its origins. in the late 1900s and early 20th century, the Arabs who were still decades away from ever inventing an identity called "Palestinian" viewed land ownership in terms of simple habitation whereas the Jewish people who were purchasing land from the Ottomans viewed it in terms of such deeds and titles. When Arabs refer to land "theft", they are really referring to land that was purchased.

 When you add in the large number of Arabs who moved to the area in response to Jewish economic development during these years, the notion gets clouded even further. 

 Unfortunately, few people know any real history as most simply go to propaganda sites and then repeat the blather they find within.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > when everyone in Gaza knows how all of Israel would happily destroy them,.
> ...




You are very confused there Dog.
Being Jewish is an irrelevancy.  Being a European Invader - specifically with the political movement of Zionism is key.

Zionists are a new political tribe.  They have no business being in Palestine, other than to sow evil and steal.  Of course they are not welcome.

As to having the capacity to destroy all in Gaza, or all Palestinians, they do have this, but they don't have the capacity to do this and to survive as the political movement that they are.  We are watching you Zionists closely, specifically to prevent your wished for genocide.

If you do it, then you will have not just our wrath to deal with, but that of all of Europe - Even the Germans who are still now tricked by your facade of being Jewish - and maybe even of the USA, which would be forced to choose sides either with the genocidal manics of Israel, or the rest of the world.

The world cannot choose to side with genocide.  If we did it would happen over and over again.


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> You are very confused there Dog.
> Being Jewish is an irrelevancy.  Being a European Invader - specifically with the political movement of Zionism is key.
> 
> Zionists are a new political tribe.  They have no business being in Palestine, other than to sow evil and steal.  Of course they are not welcome.
> ...



 If I am at all confused, it would be in not knowing if I am dealing with a Neo Nazi, an Islamist, or an ignorant western extreme leftist.

They all tend  agree when the subject is Jews.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> .... the Jewish people who were purchasing land from the Ottomans ......



No significant land was bought from the Ottomans.  They occupied the land in any case, and did not own it.
Ottoman Turks were kicked out by British and Arab forces in WWI.  The British put a ban on buying and selling land, to give time for ownership to become apparent. due to lack of a European system of recording who owned what.

The land that is referred to as stolen by Israel is land which was stolen by Israel.  Sometime in dispossessing the Palestinian families and appropriating it.  Sometimes even in allowing that continuity of ownership but annexing that land for a racist Jewish state, set up by and for European colonists.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...



OUTSTANDING POINT!  You have a very fine brain.  In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just over 6 million of them left.  It's a genocide I tell ya.  A GENOCIDE!

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> ....
> They all tend  agree when the subject is Jews.




The subject isn't Jews.
It is Zionists.  Or savage invading European colonialists, if you prefer.


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> OUTSTANDING POINT!  You have a very fine brain.  In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just over 6 million of them left.  It's a genocide I tell ya.  A GENOCIDE!
> 
> Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org



 It's funny how the Pallywood propagandists never acknowledge the fact that there were once a million Jews living in Arab lands, and now there are scant thousands.

  As far as actual (rather than imagined) ethnic clensing is concerned, you do have to admit that this is one of the few things Arabs are just much better at than Jews,.


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## RoccoR (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub,  _et al,_

And in deed Israel nor the world has chosen genocide.



Beelzebub said:


> The world cannot choose to side with genocide.  If we did it would happen over and over again.


*(COMMENT)*

That was concocted by the Arabs, relative to this struggle _(Jews 'v' Arab)_.

13. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:​


(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.

(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.

(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.*

This was the Arabs that brought this up.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> OUTSTANDING POINT!  You have a very fine brain.  In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just over 6 million of them left.  It's a genocide I tell ya.  A GENOCIDE!



I take it you mean to be ironic and intend us to understand that there is no genocide wanted, executed, or partially so.

There are more Jews in the world now than in 1930.
By your logic there was no genocide against the Jews.

It's curious to find you as a Holocaust Denier.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration ... *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
> *
> This was the Arabs that brought this up.
> Most Respectfully,
> R



You seem to miss that this is defiance in the face of a heavily armed and ruthless colonialist invader.

It is not, as you imply, an invitation.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > OUTSTANDING POINT!  You have a very fine brain.  In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just over 6 million of them left.  It's a genocide I tell ya.  A GENOCIDE!
> ...



HUH???  Are you off your meds again?  I am not a Holocaust denier.  I just despise Zionists for their treatment of the Palestinians.  What kind of people make peace offerings to them, build a security fence & grant their demand for their own land?  No surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like those Zionists in Israel do.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

Boring.  You've used that fallacious line way to many times to be even mildly amusing.

You are denying, by your logic that there was a genocide against the Jews.  I think that is disgusting of you MJB.


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> heavily armed and ruthless colonialist invader.
> 
> .



I think I'm narrowing things down a bit.

Is that "armed and ruthless colonial invader ; workers of the world unite", or armed and ruthless colonial invader; allahu akbar" ?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Boring.  You've used that fallacious line way to many times to be even mildly amusing.
> 
> You are denying, by your logic that there was a genocide against the Jews.  I think that is disgusting of you MJB.



I sure am opposed to this Gaza concentration camp committed by Israel.  Aren't you?

Naked Philadelphian Gaza Pictures From A Mediterranean Paradise


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > heavily armed and ruthless colonialist invader.
> ...




It sounds like you are fishing for info to do ad hominem attacks rather than respond to the points.
If that is what you are reduced to, I take it you admit defeat.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> I sure am opposed to this Gaza concentration camp committed by Israel.  Aren't you?



Every decent person should be.
Gaza is forced to be one of the most densely populated places in the world, with few jobs, restricted food, restricted access to the outside world, and the people killed at will by the IDF.

So yes.
What's your point?


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> It sounds like you are fishing for info to do ad hominem attacks rather than respond to the points.
> If that is what you are reduced to, I take it you admit defeat.




 You haven't made any actual points.  All you have done is spread some childish buzz terms that reveal that you are capable of repeating the sorts of simplistic framing devices found at anti Israel hate sites, but have no real knowledge of history.

Were you somehow under the impression that this puerile ranting about "colonial invaders" was impressive?


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## montelatici (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like you are fishing for info to do ad hominem attacks rather than respond to the points.
> ...




What would you call Europeans that settle in Palestine with the intention of evicting the local inhabitants and setting up a country for those of their specific religion?  Are they any different than the Puritans that went to the Americas or the Huguenots that went to South Africa?  At the time they were considered oppressed people seeking refuge while today historians will agree that they were colonial invaders.


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## Beelzebub (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> You haven't made any actual points.  All you have done is spread some childish buzz terms that reveal that you are capable of repeating the sorts of simplistic framing devices found at anti Israel hate sites, but have no real knowledge of history.
> 
> Were you somehow under the impression that this puerile ranting about "colonial invaders" was impressive?



Clearly my grasp of history is superior to yours, what with you thinking that the Ottomans sold land to Israelis.

And no.  Not impressive.  Just accurate.


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## Phoenall (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 Because it is not a fact is it, they were invited and only expelled those who would do harm to Israel and it citizens. All legal under International law as well. I don't see you complaining about all the Jews expelled by the Palestinians before this, why is this.


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## Phoenall (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...




 So what about the 1 million Jews expelled at the same time, or don't you want to see that FACT posted ?


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## Phoenall (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...





 Then produce the evidence that supports your claim from a non partisan source.


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > You haven't made any actual points.  All you have done is spread some childish buzz terms that reveal that you are capable of repeating the sorts of simplistic framing devices found at anti Israel hate sites, but have no real knowledge of history.
> ...



 The area in question was, indeed, part of the Ottoman Empire whether you are honest enough to admit it or not. Land was purchased, and again, despite your dishonesty.

.Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Then produce the evidence that supports your claim from a non partisan source.




Is Jewwatch considered non partisan?


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## montelatici (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



The Zionists/Jews had purchased less than 7% of Palestine by 1947.  That dog won't hunt.  Plus, just because foreigners buy land in a country, it doesn't become their country.


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## montelatici (Sep 23, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



No Jews were expelled by the Palestinians you big bullshitter.  That's all you do, you bullshit.


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## montelatici (Sep 23, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


 
No Jews were expelled from Palestine.


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## Penelope (Sep 23, 2014)

Pictures can be very deceiving. Too bad they don't have good drinking water or sewage system now hey?

Guess disease will just get more of them.


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> No Jews were expelled by the Palestinians.  .




"Palestinians" hadn't been invented yet at the time of the creation of Israel.  They were just plain, old Arabs then.

The whole "Palestinian" invention was just a naked attempt at reversing the perceived power dynamic involved vis a vis the two groups. It seems to have worked on the gullible and unintelligent by all accounts.


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## montelatici (Sep 23, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > No Jews were expelled by the Palestinians.  .
> ...



Not at all.  The Palestinians: Arab Christians, Arab Muslims and Arab Jews (yes there were a handful of them) were living in Palestine and the Europeans came from Europe.  As far as a dummy like you calling others like me that have forgotten more than you will ever learn about the conflict well, that's just what a dummy would say.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 23, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I sure am opposed to this Gaza concentration camp committed by Israel.  Aren't you?
> ...



Finally we agree on something.  This sure is one hell of a concentration camp.

Naked Philadelphian Gaza Pictures From A Mediterranean Paradise


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## toastman (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



What do you think the Palestinians and Arabs were trying to do in 1948?? Expel every single Jew from the region. But Israel didn't allow for that to happen.
And you, being the biggest bullshitter here, have no right to call anyone else a bullshitter


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## toastman (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...


They didn't buy land in a country, they bought land in an unincorporated entity. Stop lying


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## montelatici (Sep 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



They bought land where other people, Christians and Muslims were living. The bastards took more of the nland away from them and then expelled them.  Disgusting aggressive bastards took land and expelled the people that were living there.


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## Hossfly (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Who told you that lie? Tinmore?


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## toastman (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



No they didn't you lying deluded pro Palestinian. 
They bought empty land to build kibbutzim and moshavs.
I think this is the third lie I caught you saying tonight alone.


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## Dogmaphobe (Sep 23, 2014)

montelatici said:


> .  As far as a dummy like you calling others like me that have forgotten more than you will ever learn about the conflict well, that's just what a dummy would say.



  Goodness - I wouldn't have expected you to be suffering from memory problems until you were out of your teens.

Have you considered asking your parents to take you to a doctor who specializes in these sorts of things?


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## Beelzebub (Sep 24, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Beelzebub said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Damn straight it is.

What you need to ask yourself, MJB, is would the same prison conditions - with the area a free-fire Zone for Americans / Israelis - be acceptable for millions of Jews.

If they are not suitable for Jews, then they are not acceptable for anyone else either.


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## Phoenall (Sep 24, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...




 And the arab muslims had purchased less than 1% of the land, so what right do they have to the land. So your dog wont hunt either will it. You seem to think that because arab muslims squatted on the land it gives then the right to claim ownership, well NEWS FLASH they dont


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## MJB12741 (Sep 24, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Please let us be kind to Monte.  Where else would we go for laughs if he leaves us here?


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## montelatici (Sep 24, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You and Phoney are good for laughs.  Dumb and dumber at work. LOL


Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



Arabs, wealthy Christian and Muslims owned large tracts of land of the non-public land, below are the ownership percentages.  You will always lose Phoney, I search the source documents, not propaganda or wiki.  Rather than your bullshit non-Jews owned 94.22% of the land.

*Ownership of land in Palestine, Share of Palestinian Arabs and Jews as of April 1st, 1943*


Category of land
(Fiscal categories)
*Palestinians      **Jews**Total*Dunums (1000 sq. meters)
Urban76,66270,111146,773Citrus145,572141,188286,760Bananas2,3001,4303,730Rural built-on area36,85142,33079,181Plantation1,079,78895,5141,175,302Cereal land (taxable)5,503,183814,1026,317,285Cereal land (not taxable)900,29451,049951,343Uncultivable16,925,805298,52317,224.328Total area:
24,670,4551,514,24726,184,702*Percentage*
*94.22%**5.8%**100%*

[TBODY]
[/TBODY]_*A Survey of Palestine* prepared by the British Mandate for the UN, p. 566._


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## docmauser1 (Sep 24, 2014)

montelatici said:


> _*A Survey of Palestine* prepared by the British Mandate for the UN, p. 566._


Are we supposed to believe that dearpalistanremembered.com swill?


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## montelatici (Sep 24, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > _*A Survey of Palestine* prepared by the British Mandate for the UN, p. 566._
> ...



No you are supposed to believe the UN Survey.  But Foreign Policy Journal's peer reviewed articles, state more or less the same thing.

"In the whole of Palestine at the time UNSCOP issued its report, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land,[7] while Jews owned less than 7 percent.[8]

The Myth of the U.N. Creation of Israel - Foreign Policy Journal


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## montelatici (Sep 24, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Hey, how about the actual page from the survey.  You chumps are out of your league:


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## MJB12741 (Sep 24, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > _*A Survey of Palestine* prepared by the British Mandate for the UN, p. 566._
> ...



Hey Monte did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?   Very cleaver those Zionists building their wailing wall around the Al Asqa Mosque.


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## Phoenall (Sep 25, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...








Then what were the arab muslims doing on another persons land, you have just shown that your grasp of reality is missing. If the land was someone elses then the Palestinians were squatting illegally and could be evicted, just as if some lefty loser decided to squat on your land you would evict them.  Possession is no longer a valid defence for the theft of land


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## Phoenall (Sep 25, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...







 It is self imposed deprivation, it was not forced on them by the Israeli's. They have had plenty of opportunities to live in peace and plenty and have refused to do so. So they have themselves to blame for the state of their lives and homes, stop the terrorism, violence and belligerence and they will be free to do what they want under International law.


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## Phoenall (Sep 25, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







Then they will have valid title to the land wont they, issued by the Ottomans and British between 1850 and 1948. The details will also be entered in the land registry of the Ottomans and British kept by the UN in its archives. So how come these show that less than 1% of the land was owned by arab muslims. 84% was owned by absentee landlords in other Ottoman areas who willingly sold the land to the Jews at 10 times the actual value.


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## Phoenall (Sep 25, 2014)

montelatici said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...







 Which very clearly says that the arab muslims owned 0.8% of the land, and the Jews owned 4.2%. You are mixing up population density with land ownership child in an attempt at proving a LIE


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## toastman (Sep 25, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Beelzebub said:
> ...



I can't get over what an idiot you are. Your posts are mind boggling. 
Why don't you do a little research on concentration camps during WW2


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## Youch (Sep 25, 2014)

Europeans and Muslims have both hated Jews, and this monte dude above cites them both as authorities to defend anti-Israeli rhetoric.

Let's pretend for a second this anti-Israel rhetoric is true. Let's pretend Jerusalem is not the birthplace of Judaism.....let's say it was born in a suburb of Madison, Wisconsin. Let's pretend that since 1947 the small nation of Israel has been illegitimate. Let's pretend that population explosions in neighboring nations and regions did not force mass migration to what later became known as Palestine, but instead those growing masses had always occupied the region (and that the erstwhile PLO was actually enamored by peace and harmony).  Okay, got the scenario?  Given all that, does it justify genocide?


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## montelatici (Sep 25, 2014)

Youch said:


> Europeans and Muslims have both hated Jews, and this monte dude above cites them both as authorities to defend anti-Israeli rhetoric.
> 
> Let's pretend for a second this anti-Israel rhetoric is true. Let's pretend Jerusalem is not the birthplace of Judaism.....let's say it was born in a suburb of Madison, Wisconsin. Let's pretend that since 1947 the small nation of Israel has been illegitimate. Let's pretend that population explosions in neighboring nations and regions did not force mass migration to what later became known as Palestine, but instead those growing masses had always occupied the region (and that the erstwhile PLO was actually enamored by peace and harmony).  Okay, got the scenario?  Given all that, does it justify genocide?



There was no mass migration of non-Jews into Palestine, that is just Zionist propaganda.  The UN document "A Survey of Palestine", the last survey published prior to partition, clearly states in Chapter VI, page 140 that *“expansion of the Moslem and Christian populations is due mainly to natural increase, while that of the Jews is due mainly to immigration.”
*
Page 160, and the relevant table are depicted below:


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## montelatici (Sep 25, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



The Arabs were trying to prevent the ethnic cleansing of Christians and Muslims by the Jews.  What do you think they were trying to do?


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## montelatici (Sep 25, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



You are repeating a lie over and over again, but the source documents don't lie per Table 2 "Ownership of Land in Palestine": Jews owned less than 7% and Arabs owned more than 90%. Stop looking at "Individual and company investments" which is on the same page but has nothing to do with land ownership.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 25, 2014)

Round & round we go arguing over who's land it is.  Regarless of what anyone, including myself, has to say about it, the bottom line is this:  

Any & all land belongs to whoever rules it at any givien period in time.  Just consider all the stolen Muslim lands conquered by force from the native populations.  

Thus as long as Israel rules the land in question here ---- The land is Israels!  For those who don't accept that, be my guest at making your lives miserable over it.


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## montelatici (Sep 25, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Round & round we go arguing over who's land it is.  Regarless of what anyone, including myself, has to say about it, the bottom line is this:
> 
> Any & all land belongs to whoever rules it at any givien period in time.  Just consider all the stolen Muslim lands conquered by force from the native populations.
> 
> Thus as long as Israel rules the land in question here ---- The land is Israels!  For those who don't accept that, be my guest at making your lives miserable over it.



So finally an Israel Firster confirms that the land was stolen from the rightful non-Jewish owners by the Jews, but that since Israel rules it now, the land is Israel's.  So, you can dislike the fact that the non-Jews who were dispossessed are fighting to get their land back, but if you don't accept their right to use any means to get their land back, conflict, rockets, demographics, outside support through sanctions and BDS, etc., be my guest at making your lives miserable over it.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 25, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > Round & round we go arguing over who's land it is.  Regarless of what anyone, including myself, has to say about it, the bottom line is this:
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You are amazing.  Not a word over all the stolen Muslim lands conquered by force where the indigenous populations were forced to convert, leave or be killed.  Only criticism of Israel for regaining their land by a legal & ethical vote of the member nations of the UN in 1948.  

So tell us, how are they treating you on the funny farm?


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## montelatici (Sep 25, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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1.  When were these "stolen Muslim lands  conquered by force"?  And, are the indigenous people under occupation?  Are the Berbers under occupation in North Africa, for example.  In any case, much of the Arab conquests were achieved through treaties.

"According to the traditional accounts, much of the Arab conquests was achieved by treaty 
and we have texts of many of these agreements. Here, for example, is the treaty that was made by 
the Caliph Umar with Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem, probably 638:........"

2. As far as forced conversion, well you are one of the less "reflective" (i.e. dumb) people the paper is talking about:

"The idea that Islam was spread by the sword has had wide currency at many diffrenet 
times and the impression is still widespread among the less reflective sections of the media and 
the wider public that people converted to Islam because they were forced to do so..."

http://www.yale.edu/macmillan/rps/kennedy.pdf

If there had been forced conversion, wouldn't Spain be Muslim today. LOL


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## montelatici (Sep 25, 2014)

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By the way, how can people from Europe regain land that is on another continent?  Talk about belonging on a funny far. LOL


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## Youch (Sep 26, 2014)

montelatici said:


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You remind me to forum member Crick whose only soul origin of opinion on a subject is a single source that he cites over and over again.

I'm going to take my time in response....logic often gets lost between posts of HUGE screen shots of old texts. I'll get back to you.  I do thank you for sharing those pages with me, however.....I was unaware that such a documents existed.


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## Phoenall (Sep 26, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 Not a UN document though is it as it pre dates the UN by at least 2 years.     MUST TRY HARDER


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## Phoenall (Sep 26, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 The same way muslims do of course


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## Rehmani (Sep 26, 2014)

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Montelatici, I agree with you about Phoonall. This is my comments about him "phoonall".  
"You only talking nonsense and criticizing Islam and using me because you know I am Muslim and I don't know what your beleave is, as I told you that you are hypocrite and sound you like you are in India.
If you come up front with your religion, if you have any. Then I will fix up your nonsense and then you will learn how smelly you are from the back and from the front.
If you are jewish which I doubt it. But one thing for sure you are paid tout and you are making your living by spreading hate, insulting others and others religions, and spreading misunderstanding among people, how cruel you are you know that you are living evil in human body. You Should be sham full on your life."


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## montelatici (Sep 26, 2014)

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A Survey of Palestine was the official research prepared by Government of Palestinian (then under British military occupation/Mandate) for the United Nation Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) in 1946.

You should just shut up and quit making a fool of yourself.


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## docmauser1 (Sep 26, 2014)

montelatici said:


> A Survey of Palestine was the official research prepared by Government of Palestinian (then under British military occupation/Mandate) for the United Nation Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) in 1946. You should just shut up and quit making a fool of yourself.


So, using our honorable P F Tinmore's impeccable logic, who was that sultan, who transferred-bestowed that 90-something % "ownership" on arabs?


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## montelatici (Sep 26, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
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You probably should ask the British survey team (some members might still be alive) who reviewed the land records to determine who owned the land.  But, the result of that review (page 566 which I have provided) is the Survey itself, which was delivered to the UN in 1946.


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## docmauser1 (Sep 26, 2014)

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With no mention of that sultan sugar daddy, of course, which makes the "survey" highly suspect, as it implies that, arabs were all fat "saudi sheikhs" to "own" 90%(!) of all(!) palestine! That dearpalistanforgotten.com site still has a lot to learn about selling bridges and snake oil, of course.


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## montelatici (Sep 26, 2014)

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What does the Sultan have to do with a British survey of 1946?  

The site is called:
*"THE ANCIENT WORLD ONLINE" (AWOL), nothing to do with Palestine.
AWOL is a project of Charles E. Jones, Tombros Librarian for Classics and Humanities at the Pattee Library, Penn State University

The 1946 Survey is a public document anyone can have access to from many sites.  

If you would stop making things up and occasionally provide back up to your ridiculous assertions, oh wait, all you have to fall back on is Zionist propaganda.  We provide source material that documents fact.  Isn't that annoying that we have facts and you have fiction.*


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## MJB12741 (Sep 26, 2014)

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Golly gee, I wonder whatever happened to the indigenous Zoroastrians of Iran?  Please eduacte us with your unbiased wisdom.  Heh Heh!


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## docmauser1 (Sep 26, 2014)

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No problem declarations of income will suffice, since we can't take for granted a drivelous allusion of some palistan.com that arabs were all those fat "saudi sheikhs" to "own" 90%(!) of all(!) palestine(!), of course.


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## montelatici (Sep 26, 2014)

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They converted to Islam.  What do you think happened to them?


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## MJB12741 (Sep 26, 2014)

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How do ya like that?  The Zoroastrians of Iran converted to Islam during the Muslim invasion to steal their land.  And here I actually believed the the majoriity of the several million Zoroastrians were massacred by the Muslims or fled to India for a safe haven to become the Parsis.

I tell ya there is so much for us to learn from Monte.  And so much fun doing so.  Heh Heh!

The History of Zoroastrians after Arab Invasion Alien in Their Homeland CAIS


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## montelatici (Sep 26, 2014)

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No, most Zoroastrians converted t Islam. as was the case for Christians of the Middle East and North Africa. Why would it have been any different in Iran?  Rather than linking silly websites read some scholarly history. Bernard Lewis is 

""_Arab Muslims conquests have been variously seen in Iran: by some as a blessing, the advent of the true faith, the end of the age of ignorance and heathenism; by others as a humiliating national defeat, the conquest and subjugation of the country by foreign invaders. Both perceptions are of course valid, depending on one's angle of vision… Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples: to the Turks, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called Turkey, and of course to India. The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna."

Bernard Lewis

_
Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## docmauser1 (Sep 27, 2014)

montelatici said:


> They converted to Islam.  What do you think happened to them?


An interesting subject, indeed, touching the phenomenon that, pure indigenous arab culture contributed nothing lasting to the world except, perhaps, a stolen and bastardized jewish bible.


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


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no such thing as the jewish bible.


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## Daniyel (Sep 27, 2014)

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The Old Testament is the Jewish Bible, one of the most popular books of all time.


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

Daniyel said:


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But you don't call it a Jewish Bible do ? Don't you call it the Torah, and then you also have the Babylon Talmud?

The OT and NT together is called the Christian Bible, but that is not your book.

Do you call the Torah the Jewish Bible? Do you ever call your book the Bible?

(Christians took your books and did make a mess of them, that I will agree) I do agree that people need to take the Jewish view on their own writings.

Ok I found this, stand corrected:
The _*Jewish Bible*_, or Tanakh


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## MJB12741 (Sep 27, 2014)

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UNBELIEVABLE!  " no such thing as the jewish bible."  Can they possibly get any dumber than this one?  For your education:

The Jewish Bible Tanakh The Holy Scriptures -- The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text Torah Nevi im Kethuvim The Jewish Publication Society 9780827603660 Amazon.com Books


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

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The name _Byblos_ is Greek (Greek: Βύβλος). Papyrus received its early Greek name (_byblos_, _byblinos_) from its being exported to the Aegean through Byblos, and the Greek words _biblion_, plural _biblia_, and ultimately the word "Bible" ("the (papyrus) book") are traced to that name
Byblos - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Byblos has an interesting history, don't you think?


Oh so funny, apparently I have been referring to it for a long time and never noticed the Jewish Bible on top:
Here is a link to the online Tanakh,
Yeshayahu - Chapter 1 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible


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## MJB12741 (Sep 27, 2014)

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Lmao!  Absolutely.  Thank you Greeks for writing the Tanakh, the Jewish Bible.  Sheesh, just how deep a hole do you want to put yourself into?  Heh Heh!​


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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Oh so funny, apparently I have been referring to it for a long time and never noticed the Jewish Bible on top:

Here is a link to the online Tanakh,

Yeshayahu - Chapter 1 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible


MJB12741 said:


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Marg, not all of us get into your jewish history book, we use it as a reference.

the bible is incomplete without the NT as far as us Christians go, and frankly the NT in my opinion can stand on its own.

Have you ever studied Christianity or Islam, perhaps your the ignorant one, to think we are all dumb enough to think the Jews invented everything.


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

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Interesting, most of the stuff in your OT has been taken from others, I imagine even of Greece origin.  How deep do you want to go?


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## Daniyel (Sep 27, 2014)

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I was about to give you an in detail explanation about what is Tora, Tanakh, Talmud, Mishna, Gmara, and everything else, but long story short, the word 'bible' is in English, most English speakers are Christians, the Jewish bible is also the Christian's bible but only the first part which is why the English term is 'Old Testament' but in generally the bible is written in the Jewish language, Hebrew, and so does the definitions for all the words I listed above.
THE bible as for the Jewish bible also known as the Old Testament, is the most popular book of all time, deny it, won't get you anywhere.


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## Daniyel (Sep 27, 2014)

The Tora is not the Tanakh but the Tanakh is the Tora, starting...now!


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> The Tora is not the Tanakh but the Tanakh is the Tora, starting...now!


Ok, does it matter? whatever you say if fine, I guess I can call it what I always have.

Back on tract:

Even your Jewish history calls the land Palestine as far back as the Canaanites people who are the Phoenicians of which Abraham is of said to of been.
Phoenicia Phoenicians


Daniyel said:


> The Tora is not the Tanakh but the Tanakh is the Tora, starting...now!


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## Phoenall (Sep 27, 2014)

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 No UN at that time so care to explain your LIE ?


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## Daniyel (Sep 27, 2014)

Penelope said:


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*First It doesn't, never used any term like starting with the word 'P' and not within any Christian translation to the Old Testament.*
Assuming what you said is true, you're saying the now day Palestinians/Arab Muslims are Philistines/Pleshet descendants?


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## Phoenall (Sep 27, 2014)

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Strange that as the land registry shows page 1 to be the actual land ownership, as in holding title. The British did not need to do any surveys as they had the facts in front of them from the two land registries, the Ottoman one and the British one. These are still available to view for a small fee and the last I heard the arab muslims still owned less than 1% of the total land mass of Palestine, but occupied 80% as squatters, illegal immigrants and itinerant workers. You cant beat facts with LIES and you child are LYING to save face.


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## Phoenall (Sep 27, 2014)

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 Why do a survey if the information was already to hand, that does not make sense. The British had the land registry to hand and up to date when they blocked all land transfers and sales. This registry showed the Jews owned 7% of Palestine and the arab muslims less than 1%

Who owns what - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

 At no time in modern history did the Palestinians have legal control over their land until the creation of the Palestinian Authority in 1994. Now their representatives have control of land ownership in the territories from which Israel has withdrawn; that is, zones A and B (30% of the West Bank and 70% of Gaza). This new power is far from insignificant, considering that control of the land has always been and still remains at the centre of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

From the 16th century on the Palestinians were ruled by others. Up to 1917 they were part of the Ottoman Empire; then Great Britain governed Palestine until 1948, when the State of Israel came into being. The Zionist movement laid the foundations of the state on land purchase which began in the 19th century. The fact that the native Palestinians failed to understand in time what was taking place before their eyes and could not prevent the colonial authorities from putting a stop to such sales was key to the Zionist movement’s success in creating the State of Israel. For the new colonisers who came to power in 1948 were already the owners of at least part of the land.


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## Phoenall (Sep 27, 2014)

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 Are you sure they weren't ethnically cleansed from the land by the ISLAMONAZI MASS MURDERERS as detailed in the Islamic histories of the time ?


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

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No this is what is says, at the time they wrote the Jewish ency Palestine was a land, and that was in what 1913 ? they wrote it/? so for some of you to say there was not a land called Palestine, that is incorrect according to your own two people who wrote that.
Now take your pick.
Is Abraham a Phoenician which Eusebius says in the Prep and Proof  of the Gospel? ( Phoenician Kings use to worship their firstborn sons when things were not going good in their country, drought).
Or is it what Josephus states , yous are Hykos, travelers  from Africa ?
I'm trying to decide who you Jews are, are you a tribe of Arabs who spoke Hebrew, are you Hebrews who called their religion Judaism due to the worship in Judea?  I was under the impression that only Hebrews who came from Judea were called Jews, but now all Hebrew speaking people are called Jews.
Now Jew is a race .
Is Arab a race, or its it a name given to a group of people coming from an area?
or is it short for a group of people who speak Arabic?
Or give me a brand new description.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 27, 2014)

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The more Israel givies in to Palestinian demands, the more Israeli's get killed for a thank you.   Time for Israel to take care of their own & just  let the squatters fend for themselves for a change wthout sucking off of Israel to provide for them.


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## Daniyel (Sep 27, 2014)

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Each race named by a place of origin, Arabs - Arabia, Ivri/Yehudi/Israeli(Jew) - Judaiah and Semeria (distinguished by the Semartains) and named by Israel for being Israel's(Jacob) descendants.
It is way different than what you think, now spare extra details, because this is all false since you said yourself Palestinians can't be a race.
You made a huge mess with the definitions and that is most likely to happen because it is very confusing and you must be aware of each reference the term is based of..*anyway get to the bottom line again, Palestinians are..?*


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

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Wont answer or can't. Same with Israelites , came from Israel, which is a man in the OT, and his descendants are called Israelites,  Why did God change Jacob's name to Israel, what is the meaning behind Israel?

No doubt Palestine was the name of the land and the Palestinians where those who came from there (and they are said to be Arabs, Christians and Jews)


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## Daniyel (Sep 27, 2014)

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There happened to be an answer for these questions, but you won't have a clue.
After the clash between Jacob and the angel(I'm gonna give you the main concept) Jacob asked the angel to bless him, the name Isra-el was given to Jacob (which is one of the aliases of God) the Hebrew translation is 'Yashar-El' - Yashar - Honest, El - God (Daniel means Judged by God, you get the point) and so on the Hebrews turned to the 12 tribes of Israel, two of them are Judeah and Benjamin (Yehuda and Binyamin) and so on they are called the Israelites, but before they were called Hebrews(Living in Goshen - a district in Egypt  and being separated of the Egyptians)
Israel before named as 'Cnaan' the land of the Cnaanites(including Abram) which is later on called Abraham(Avraam/Avraham giving him the Hebrew 'H' representing God, like Sarai - to Sarah, etc.) 
Later on the Philistines came into frame, they turned out to live in somewhere nearby Gaza, Pleshet [Philistines] named Invaders in Hebrew which is their earliest reference, since they invaded the promised land when the Hebrews were held slaves in Egypt, few centuries later, the Greece(or Romans don't remember quite well) named it Palestina, as they attempted to wipe any Jewish culture sign, forcing religion on the Jewish, they also were Pagans, so the name Palestina (Philistina/ which ironically is 'Pleshet - none' in Hebrew) fits well.
Confused?


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

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No not confused that much. I'm glad to see you split Isra el up, I thought it meant He has striven with God. bit whatever,I would have to look up Pleshet and I question that. Also its well known fact the Phoenicians/Canaanites occupied Palestine , or the land, it may not of been the  name of  whole area,  at that time. but Daniyel , you just can't go by your history,  Abraham came from somewhere, I mean also in your book you invaded an occupied land, the battles, the Canaanites were there and yes the Philistines (possibly the sea people) came. I am also aware that Palestina (which is Palestine, close enough) was given to the land.

Where do you think Abraham came from. The land of UR would point to him not being Phoenician but  Chaldean.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 27, 2014)

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Most historians & Biblical scholars place the city of UR in Mesopotamia.  So by your logic, I guess Abraham wasn't a Hebrew but an Iraqi, right?


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

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that is what your book says.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 27, 2014)

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OKay!  Lets continue on with that.  Agreed?


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## Hossfly (Sep 27, 2014)

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For Christians, the NT is like a drivers's manual. The OT is the technical manual.


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## Penelope (Sep 27, 2014)

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Your right Daniyel, and I have been thinking of late if that might not be the root of the problems of society , I often wonder what society would be like without the Jewish book.


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## montelatici (Sep 27, 2014)

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The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4;Galatians 3:23–25;Ephesians 2:15).

Read more:Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law


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## montelatici (Sep 27, 2014)

Just of one many examples as to why we Christians have nothing in common with Jews: We are different. From the word of Jesus."

Matthew 5:38-48

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.


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## Daniyel (Sep 27, 2014)

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Abraham was a Cnaanite, and I don't split, it always went together


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## MJB12741 (Sep 28, 2014)

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Got news for you.  Christians & Jews are bound together by the same root.  Without the Jews there would be no Jesus.  And without Jesus there would be no Christians.  And let us remember that Jesus, John the Baptist & all the apostles were Jews.


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## Penelope (Sep 28, 2014)

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The Hellenistic Jews wrote the NT (for the most part) , the progressive Jews  who were probably tired of war and wanted to become more advanced in the philosophical aspects of the Greek and even Roman culture, as compared to the Orthodox Jews or Traditional as you might want to call them, who ran by the Pharisees wanted to maintain the control over Judaism.

No stoning or floggings in the OT except as done by the traditional Jews.

Jesus was not a traditional or orthodox Jew as he well displayed. Christianity really didn't start till later.  I am not bound by the OT and neither was Jesus.


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## Phoenall (Sep 28, 2014)

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 The two names you give are of people who lived at least 2,000 years after the events they try and speak of, so how are they experts on the subject.
 Arab denotes a person from the Arabian peninsular who was a pagan and illiterate, they worshipped many gods and goddesses and erected statues to them at mecca. Then along comes the psychotic paedophile Mohamed and his new religion islam that still keeps them illiterate and pagan. So it describes illiterate heathens with cannibalistic tendencies who rape children


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## Penelope (Sep 28, 2014)

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Josephus lived in the first century and Eusebius in the 4th who did prep and proof of the Gospel for Constantine, he has went over all history as he could find. You might want to read them both.

You might want to read some history on Muhammed, and if you'd peek in the Quran you'll find a lot is taken from the OT.


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## Phoenall (Sep 28, 2014)

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The Bible was written by the Greeks at least 200 years after the death of Jesus, and they put their own spin on things. It was them that introduced the aspect of Hell and a Devil because the original cult of Christianity was based on the Torah being messianic Jews. Jesus was bound by the Torah as that was his religion, what he was not bound by was the violence and bloodshed


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## Phoenall (Sep 28, 2014)

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The Bible as we know it was written 200 to 300 years after the death of Christ and was altered many times to appease heathens. But this does not alter the fact that the OT was based on what happened over 2,000 years before these men were born, and they were instructed to put the spin on the OT and NT that suited whoever ruled at the time. This is why we have so many different versions of the Bible, that differ in many ways from the others.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 28, 2014)

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Have you gone completely whacko?  Jesus even celebrated the Sabbath.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 28, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Sep 28, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...




Actually there is much evidence that Jewish eschatology came from the Persian Zoroastrians beginning at the time of the Babylonian captivity.  No mention of any of this in the Torah.  First evidenced in the Book of Daniel.  And from the Jews it passed on to the Christians who take it more seriously today than the Jews do.


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## Penelope (Sep 28, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...





MJB12741 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Till he lost his cool and turned over the money changers tables. I think he was mainly a walking preacher and after awhile avoided synagogues and the temple, as his time has not come.


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## Hossfly (Sep 28, 2014)

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


John 7:14
Now about the midst of the feast *Jesus* went up into the *temple*, and taught.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

John 18:20
*Jesus* answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the *synagogue*, and in the *temple*, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


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## MJB12741 (Sep 29, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Yes, Jesus was indeed a good religious Jew.


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## Penelope (Sep 29, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



A jew that Zionist and Jews say was a bastard. Good one Marg. What is that his mother was according the the Jews , oh a whore? You are just too much in your contradicting posts.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



I have never known any Jew who refers to Jesus as "a basatrd" & his mother "a whore."  Jews see Jesus as a rabbi & teacher of goodness.  The only riff is over whether Jesus is the promised messiah.  So tell us, who is occupying who's land?


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## Penelope (Sep 29, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Really they said that to him right in the bible. (Yes I imagine you want this to end)

Who is occupying the land illegally, the Jewish people, as soon as they occupied the land outside of the agreed on lines.


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## Penelope (Sep 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Sep 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...




Oh now  I get it.  Some Jew in the Bible called Jesus a bastard & his mother a whore so that is what Jews believe.  Eh, Penelope dear, will you be so kind as to tell us what Jew in the Bible said that?  'Atta girl.


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## montelatici (Sep 29, 2014)

"Yes, Jesus was indeed a good religious Jew."

Really?

John 8.40-8.49

40 As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.
41You are doing the things your own father does. We are not illegitimate children, they protested. The only Father we have is God himself.
42Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44*You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.*
45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!
46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
48The Jews answered him, Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?
49I am not possessed by a demon, said Jesus, but I honour my Father and you dishonour me.


----------



## Hossfly (Sep 29, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "Yes, Jesus was indeed a good religious Jew."
> 
> Really?
> 
> ...


Aah, we have that same John bit always brought up by the Jew haters.  As someone who has studied the Bible for years and whose grandfather is still a a pastor had previously said (which of course you will say is a lie) Jesus was only talking to a handful of men with whom he disagreed and was not speaking of all the Jews in general.  When you get down to it, Jesus would actually have been calling the Muslims of the Devil if Islam had been around at that time since it was the Muslims who killed so many of the original Christians and forced so many to convert.  Can you tell us how the Christians are faring now in the countries the Muslims took over, such as Egypt and Iraq?


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## Phoenall (Sep 30, 2014)

He was a Pharisee Jew who followed the Torah and its teachings, yes he was  a travelling Rabbi who taught the peaceful message of Judaism. A spin off cult was formed around his life by certain Jews who were prepared to be martyrs for his beliefs, and this spread to the rest of the world over time.


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## Phoenall (Sep 30, 2014)

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...







 What agreed on lines, produce the treaty signed by all parties designating the mutual borders. Or are you on about the '67 cease fire lines that are not legally binding borders ?


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## Phoenall (Sep 30, 2014)

montelatici said:


> "Yes, Jesus was indeed a good religious Jew."
> 
> Really?
> 
> ...






 TRy again as those are Christs words to the Jews who had left the path of Judaism.


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## Penelope (Sep 30, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "Yes, Jesus was indeed a good religious Jew."
> ...





Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "Yes, Jesus was indeed a good religious Jew."
> ...



You mean like the ones who call themselves J


Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > "Yes, Jesus was indeed a good religious Jew."
> ...



You mean like the maj. of the Jews of today???


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## MJB12741 (Sep 30, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



What does this have to do with the Palestinian squatters occupying Israel's land?


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## Daniyel (Sep 30, 2014)

Nothing but a chew and spit attempts to draw the Jews as a bloodthirsty monsters, did anyone said something against the Israeli Arabs/Druze/Samertains/Cercustains?
Anti Semitic trash, time to take it out.


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## Phoenall (Sep 30, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 No like the left wing Jews, the N.K. and the other extremist sects that see themselves as the only true Jews. The ones he attacked were like those scum that murdered that Palestinian boy, those sort of Jews. Not the normal everyday Jew that follows their religion as it was meant to be followed, in humility and peace.


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## MJB12741 (Sep 30, 2014)

As soon as Israel turned the wasteland into a thriving metropolis, here come hoards of Palestinians to claim it's their land.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 1, 2014)

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Welll golly gee,do you think maybe the Arab countries made a mistake uniting to annihilate Israel at the cost of the  Palestinians?


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## Penelope (Oct 1, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



In your dreams. Iran was kind enough to pipe oil to Israel until the 1979 revolution hey, then Israel got mad, growling mad and called Iran a terrorist country. You are so funny  when you stick to the make believe fable.


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## Hossfly (Oct 1, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> As soon as Israel turned the wasteland into a thriving metropolis, here come hoards of Palestinians to claim it's their land.


That's a fact and later on the Panamanians and South Africans followed the Palestinian example. Like Palestine, the region where the Panama Canal crosses the Ithmus was a trackless jungle swamp and South Africa was barren and uninhabited until the English and Dutch transformed it into  productivity. Amazing, but finally Palestine *did* contribute to mankind and civilization.


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## montelatici (Oct 1, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



The Arab countries attempted to stop the Jew ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Christians.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



"Jew ethnic cleansing of Muslims & Christians."  Now THAT"S funny!  Where would we go for laughs if Monte ever leaves us?


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## montelatici (Oct 2, 2014)

Most would find you an hilarious brainwashed nutter.  Even educated Israelis.  What do you call expelling 800,000 people?  A field trip.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Arab countries attempted to stop the Jew ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Christians.


How so, if they didn't give a damn about them??


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Most would find you an hilarious brainwashed nutter.  Even educated Israelis.  What do you call expelling 800,000 people?  A field trip.


A vote!


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## montelatici (Oct 2, 2014)

Were the Nazis voting too?


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## Hossfly (Oct 2, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > So the part of the Bible you believe is the part you WANT to believe.
> ...





montelatici said:


> Were the Nazis voting too?


The Nazis don't have to vote. They decree and dictate.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Were the Nazis voting too?


Why, the arab league can't do without voting, of course.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 2, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> "Jew ethnic cleansing of Muslims & Christians."  Now THAT"S funny!  Where would we go for laughs if Monte ever leaves us?




He operates on the turnspeak principle of  whatever he supports, just turn it around and accuse the other fellow of doing it.

Since there were once a million Jews in Arab lands and now just scant thousands -- a true ethnic clensing -- in order to mask the reality of the situation as a viciously antisemitic Arab, he has to try to create the impression that it is really the other way around.

It may be pathetic, disingenuous and hateful, but many unintelligent people fall for it.


----------



## MJB12741 (Oct 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > "Jew ethnic cleansing of Muslims & Christians."  Now THAT"S funny!  Where would we go for laughs if Monte ever leaves us?
> ...



The ethnic cleansing of Christians & Jews in Arab lands is hard to forgive.  But what about the Israeli genocide of the Palestinians?  In 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just over 6 million of them left.

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org


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## montelatici (Oct 2, 2014)

You do like to show your ignorance.  Let me help you out:

...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
*(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;*
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article II


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## Phoenall (Oct 2, 2014)

Penelope said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...





And haven't they been proven correct since


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## Phoenall (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...





 Is that why they have ethnically cleansed over 85% of the Christians in Palestine themselves in recent years. From a total population of 12% there are less than 2% left alive in the whole of Palestine. And not a Jew in sight


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## Phoenall (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Most would find you an hilarious brainwashed nutter.  Even educated Israelis.  What do you call expelling 800,000 people?  A field trip.





 What do you call expelling enemies of the state which is legal under International law. They could have executed them just as easily and legally, and claimed they were casualties of war. They were offered the chance to return but the arab league denied them that right as it was nit under their terms.

 Now how about the expulsion of 1 million Jews at the same time, any comment on that atrocity ?


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## Phoenall (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Were the Nazis voting too?





 Yes the ISLAMONAZI'S voted with their feet when they fled the war zone hoping to ransack the homes of the Jews a few weeks later swhen they had been wiped out.


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## Phoenall (Oct 2, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...






 In 1948 at the time you speak of there was no Israel, and the Palestinians included the Jews. They left because they were told to leave so they could get last pick of the Jews property when the war was over


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## Phoenall (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici said:


> You do like to show your ignorance.  Let me help you out:
> 
> ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> 
> ...






All committed by the arab muslims on the Jews and Christians over the last 1400 years, so what are you trying to say ?


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## RoccoR (Oct 2, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

I guess you like to show your confusion of the intent behind the law as you have copied it _(Genocide Article 6 Rome Statutes)_.  (_See:  __Report of the Preparatory Commission for the International __Criminal Court - PCNICC/2000/1/Add.2_)

The crime of genocide *does not apply* to the intent to destroy political, ideological, economic, military, professional, or other groups.  _Genocide_ and _Ethnic Cleansing_ are two separate and distinct operations; _Genocide_ being a distinct crime and _Ethnic Cleansing_ is an intended outcome and does not imply the deliberate and systematic destruction of members of an unwanted an "_indelible"_ group _(national, ethnical, racial or religious)_ in a society or within a territory.



montelatici said:


> You do like to show your ignorance.  Let me help you out:
> 
> ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

In any conflict, there is death --- killing --- one group against another _(Good 'vs' Evil)_.   

Your claim here, under the law you've cited, implies that the Arab Palestinian people are an "_indelible"_ group which is _explicitly targeted_ for deliberate and systematic destruction by the Israelis.   What is the observable evidence you have?

Observable:
The Arab Palestinian People has a steady growth rate of 





The Palestinian population living in the State of Palestine is growing comparatively fast, 2.4 percent a year, or 33 percent higher than Israel’s current rate of population growth. The population is also young, with half 18 years old or under, making it the youngest population in the region. Although Palestinian fertility has declined substantially from a record high of about 8 children per woman in the 1960s, it remains comparatively high at more than 4 children for every woman. - See more at: By 2035 Jewish population in Israel Palestine is projected at 46 percent 8211 Mondoweiss​
I do not see any evidence of a program for the deliberate and systematic destruction of the Arab Palestinians.  I see the opposite --- a "comparatively fast growth rate."  I do not see any plans or operations that include acts of _torture, rape, sexual slavery, apartheid, or other inhuman or degrading treatment_ of the Arab Palestinian.

Can you supply some data which shows that Israel has programs?  And can you show me the stated intentions of the Israelis that demonstrates they clearly intend the systematic destruction of the Arab Palestinian?

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 2, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...


Link?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > In 1948 at the time you speak of there was no Israel, and the Palestinians included the Jews. They left because they were told to leave so they could get last pick of the Jews property when the war was over
> ...


I doubt there's any link existing on that to a palibull site, of course.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 3, 2014)

As things turned out the Arab countries put it to the Palestinians but good when they were told to leave until after the Arab countries annihilated Israel off the face of the earth.  Hey I have an idea.  Lets blame Israel for all the Palestinian refugees.  Heh Heh!


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> As things turned out the Arab countries put it to the Palestinians but good when they were told to leave until after the Arab countries annihilated Israel off the face of the earth.  Hey I have an idea.  Lets blame Israel for all the Palestinian refugees.  Heh Heh!



These clowns repeat propaganda not knowing that there is source material, much of it from the Israelis themselves that refutes the nonsense they believe. How stupid can these clowns be.  Do they want to look like fools?

*"a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. *This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. *“At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."*
*
The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition*


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## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > As things turned out the Arab countries put it to the Palestinians but good when they were told to leave until after the Arab countries annihilated Israel off the face of the earth.  Hey I have an idea.  Lets blame Israel for all the Palestinian refugees.  Heh Heh!
> ...


Does that Le Monde Radotagique have an explanation how all those major arab settlers and squatters from the hood all got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine?


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## RoccoR (Oct 3, 2014)

_et al,_

None of this makes any difference.  What "you" or "they" believed happened a half century ago makes no difference.  The solutions of today's problems are found in the reality of today.  None of you can roll back the clock and reset the conditions that give us the realities of today.  There is no "time machine."  And there is no way for history to to be undone.

There is only settlement of international disputes by peaceful means --- in such a manner that --- international peace, security and justice are not endangered.

The Jewish State of Israel will not be undone; nor will it be allowed to be compromised.  It is much too late for that.  If the Arab Palestinians want to continue their bid for a failed state --- so be it.  But they have no right to infringe upon that which is Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> _et al,_
> 
> None of this makes any difference.  What "you" or "they" believed happened a half century ago makes no difference.  The solutions of today's problems are found in the reality of today.  None of you can roll back the clock and reset the conditions that give us the realities of today.  There is no "time machine."  And there is no way for history to to be undone.
> 
> ...



Oh, I'm sure the Boers thought the same.  They have every right to seek the return of their homes and land.


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



No need to explain, your's is a false premise.  The squatters and late arrivals were the Jews.  The Palestinians, Christians and Muslims, had lived in Palestine for many generations and owned most of the land.  Which is not surprising.

Let's go to source material from official archives:

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race.* Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.* "

. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 

Now for land ownership.  As recorded from the land registries by the British:


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > Does that Le Monde Radotagique have an explanation how all those major arab settlers and squatters from the hood all got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine?
> ...


So, does the Le Monde Radotagique have an explanation how all those major arab settlers and squatters from the hood all got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine?


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Why do you repeat bullshit?  The facts are in the archives, and they contradict your bullshit.


----------



## RoccoR (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

I'm not sure that the conflict of a hundred and fifty years ago, the Orange Free State and the Transvaal as independent republics are similar enough to compare.



montelatici said:


> Oh, I'm sure the Boers thought the same.  They have every right to seek the return of their homes and land.


(COMMENT)

Most the Afrikaner nation (Boers) today, the Front Nasionaal (FN) party have legal processes in place relative to the land claim with the Land Claims Commissioner in Pretoria.  Much different than the situation in Palestine _(Israel-Palestinian Conflict)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## montelatici (Oct 3, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure that the conflict of a hundred and fifty years ago, the Orange Free State and the Transvaal as independent republics are similar enough to compare.
> 
> ...



No difference at all Rocco.  If the Jews agree to a peaceful transition it will be the same result.  If they don't it will be a Rhodesian result.  Take your pick terrone.


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## RoccoR (Oct 3, 2014)

montelatici,

Don't try to incite my anger with the childish name calling.  I'm Sicilian, and don't rattle easy.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > So, does the Le Monde Radotagique have an explanation how all those major arab settlers and squatters from the hood all got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine?
> ...


If the facts are in the archives then it'll be easy to show us how did that happen that, major arab squatting-settling lumpens from the hood got to be "saudi sheiks" to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine, won't it? Bank statements, declarations of income are acceptable.
The fact  that, all of the land that was not purchased and registered to jews or the Jewish agency, including *government lands*, was categorized as non-jewish, is not acceptable!
Bonne chance la prochaine fois!
Bon appétit!
Bon voyage!
Adieu!


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## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings.  So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.
> 
> ...


Thanks for elucidating the true definition of Terrorist Zionism


----------



## theliq (Oct 4, 2014)

Youch said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.
> ...


and pre-dating the Jews were the Canaanites and Moabites..........so your point is ???????? steve NO ANTI-SEMITE ME........by the way only Shepardic Jews and Palestinians are the only SEMITE PEOPLES..............Sumerians I think you mean't in your Samaritan waffle.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> Thanks for elucidating the true definition of Terrorist Zionism


Moronic drivel.


----------



## Youch (Oct 4, 2014)

theliq said:


> Youch said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



By that logic, that portion of the world belongs to homo erectus.

In 70AD the Romans banished the Israelites to the four corners of the world.  The word Palestine was a Roman invention of 135AD.  You could blame the Romans for all of the divisiveness, or later the Brits and French.  But only bigotry, hatred and ignorance blames the Israelis and their tiny little corner of the world, the birthplace of their religion and people.  Lib's have bought, wholesale, the wrong side of history on this one.

The Brits and French were the ones who divided all that land, mostly rewarding those who fought with them against the Ottoman Empire.  "Palestine" wasn't Palestine, it was a British-born "Mandate-Palestine." 

Logic seems to befuddle many people here.  Jerusalem is the cradle of Judaism, Bethlehem the cradle of Christianity.  Yet it is intolerant Muslims who kill both, neither of whom are imperialistic, and neither of whom are sworn to a jihad or caliphate. What, the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST belongs to one religion????  And all you libs defend that radical intolerance?  Christians (and Kurds and anyone else who gets in their way) are being massacred all over Iraq ad Iran and Syria and now elsewhere, and the sliver-state of Israel is constantly bombarded with bombs and terror, and libs side with the terrorists every time.  It baffles logic and morality.

Christianity and Judaism have both gone through a reformation.  Islam has not.  And the libs have chosen the one that has not....the one that is a threat, an open and acknowledged threat, to the western notion of liberty and freedom.

You all are dangerously ignorant.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > _et al,_
> ...



Problem is the Arab countries won't allow the Palestinians the right to return to their homes & land.


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## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



The Arab States have always supported the right of the Palestinians to return to their land and homes in Palestine.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Arab States have always supported the right of the Palestinians to return to their land and homes in Palestine.


Why? Palistanians have returned to their homelands in arab states, of course.


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## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The Arab States have always supported the right of the Palestinians to return to their land and homes in Palestine.
> ...



As the records confirm the Palestinians had no homeland except Palestine.  Repeating propaganda just allows me to repost the facts which make you look like the fool you are:

*AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE. *​
"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems.* A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians,* in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. *Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. *- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


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## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


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In memorable words of Winnie Churchill - "Left to themselves, the Arabs of Palestine would not in a thousand years have taken effective steps towards the irrigation and electrification of Palestine. They would have been quite content to dwell - a handful of philosophic people - in wasted sun-drenched plains, letting the waters of the Jordan flow unbridled and unharnessed into the Dead Sea."
And then arab settlers-squatters from the hood started putting their turbocharged camels in overdrive to be the first to enjoy the jewish development, and then they wanted to redistribute it all, of course.


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## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


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Do you have a link?  As Ahad Ha'am contradicts Churchill:

"In 1891, Ha'am had made his first visit to the Jewish settlements in Palestine. It resulted in an important essay, The Truth from the Land of Israel. What distinguished his report from the gushing accounts of other Jewish visitors was the sober realism with which he noted the many problems. High among them was the existence of an indigenous population. *"We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow."

David Goldberg The 1907 writings of one traveller to Palestine vividly describe the roots of the region s enmity Comment is free The Guardian
*


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## MJB12741 (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
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> ...



Israel needs to stop placating the squatters endlesss demands.  Either find some incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant them a right of return back to their native homelands or just let the Palestinians fend for themselves for a change without sucking off of Israel to provide for them.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 4, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Do you have a link?  As Ahad Ha'am contradicts Churchill:


Achad Ha'am wasn't a british colonial secretary. hehehe


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## montelatici (Oct 4, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
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> > Do you have a link?  As Ahad Ha'am contradicts Churchill:
> ...



Ahad Ha'am was a Zionist leader you moron.  Churchill was merely a racist:

" I do not admit that right. I do not admit for
instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America
or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been
done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade
race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken
their place."

_Peel Commission Report, proof copy of Churchill's evidence: Churchill papers, 2/317_


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## MJB12741 (Oct 4, 2014)

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LMAO!  You are so funny Monte.  Bless you for all  the laughs you give us.  Yessiir, there were indeed Muslim Palestinian squatters on the land even in 1920 & 1921.


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## Andylusion (Oct 4, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


> deltex1 said:
> 
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> > Everyone stole everyone else's land at one time or another.  If they are strong enough to keep it, they keep it.  If not they lose it.  Shut up and deal.
> ...



"right" is ridiculous.   They can choose to fight.   But if they  do... they die.  That's how that works.    Mexico can attack the US if they want to.... and we'll slaughter them.     If you are so stupid, you send your children to attack soldiers, and your kids get killed... the person to blame is in your mirror.

Any other group, would have sued for peace by now.  Only the Palestine people are willing to still make war, when they have absolutely no chance of any other outcome, than to be slaughtered... and if your people are that dumb, then I'm on Israel side, and they deserve what they get.  Animals and dogs, need shot sometimes.   You have a rabid dog attack your kids, you shoot it dead.  Israel is no different.


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## MaryL (Oct 4, 2014)

Really, when someone from Timbuktu  is here illegally and claims to be an American , all this globalism, this post racial stuff, Who IS occupying who's land? I say this with a touch of irony.  Illegal Mexicans in the US claim we stole the land from them that they stole first....Same standard applied to Israel/Palestine.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 5, 2014)

MaryL said:


> Really, when someone from Timbuktu  is here illegally and claims to be an American , all this globalism, this post racial stuff, Who IS occupying who's land? I say this with a touch of irony.  Illegal Mexicans in the US claim we stole the land from them that they stole first....Same standard applied to Israel/Palestine.



Yes, all land was originally stolen by some people.  Bottom line is all land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  Consider all the stolen lands now ruled by Muslims.  So, as long as Israel rules Israel's land, the land is Israels.


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## montelatici (Oct 5, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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What's funny is how you resort to childish rebuttals when the facts clearly demonstrate you are a clown.  The Mandatory report states clearly that there were only a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.  The squatters are those Jews that started squatting after that.


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## Beelzebub (Oct 5, 2014)

Israel closes the door to every diplomatic move, and to every legal move.  Palestinians work to open new doors.  Israel works to close them.  Finally Israel will achieve the genocide it has been working for, or will be defeated.  There really is little likelyhood of anything else while Zionists feel they have the right to out Nazi the Nazis.

When all you have is going to be taken whether you resist or don't resist, EVERY people in the world would resist.  That is why Palestinians will not give up.  Should not give up.  Not even while Israel murders them, murders their children, and consigns them to the prison camp that they have made of Palestinians own land.

And all this time that Israel thinks it is winning, it is just corrupting itself and its people further and further.
The mills of justice grind slowly, but finely.  Israel will end because no such tyranny can survive worldwide opprobrium.
And your lies don't work any more.



Androw said:


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## Hossfly (Oct 5, 2014)

Beelzebub said:


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## MJB12741 (Oct 5, 2014)

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Yerssir, those Zionists just don't understand the Palestinians longing for peace.  That is why these noble life loving, peace loving people elected Hamas.  Right?


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## MJB12741 (Oct 5, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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For generations now the overwhelming majority of Palestinians have been squatting on Israel's land with no titles or deeds whatsoever.


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


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Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > As things turned out the Arab countries put it to the Palestinians but good when they were told to leave until after the Arab countries annihilated Israel off the face of the earth.  Hey I have an idea.  Lets blame Israel for all the Palestinian refugees.  Heh Heh!
> ...





 From your ISLAMONAZO sourced link we see this

 Mainstream Israeli historians, on the other hand, have always claimed that the refugees (numbering, in their estimation, 500,000 at most)* mostly left voluntarily, responding to calls from their leaders assuring them of a prompt return after victory.* They deny that the Jewish Agency (and subsequently the Israeli government) had planned the exodus. Furthermore, they maintain that the few (and regrettable) massacres that occurred - particularly the Deir Yassin massacre of 9 April 1948 - were the work of extremist soldiers associated with Menachem Begin’s Irgun and Yitzhak Shamir’s Lehi.

  The exodus was divided into two broadly equal waves: one before and one after the decisive turning-point of the declaration of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 and the intervention of the armies of the neighbouring Arab states on the following day. *One can agree that the flight of thousands of well-to-do Palestinians during the first few weeks following the adoption of the UN partition plan* - particularly from Haifa and Jaffa -* was essentially voluntary.

*


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 But the Black South Afrikaans  have denied them the right of return and have mass murdered many of those that remained. That is what you want for Israel isn't it, a lawless violent racist apartheid nation run by ISLAMONAZI TERRORISTS and not a Jew left alive. Then will you start on the western nations and murder all the Jews there as well in your blood fest.

When the Palestinians can produce title deeds to the property in their names then they will be allowed to return. Just as under the Palestinians charter only those Jews born before 1850 can claim right of return to a unified ISLAMONAZI palestine


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 What is wrong with table one that shows real ownership and not occupation, is it because it only shows 0.8% of ALL of Palestine as being owned by arab muslims, while 4.8% of ALL of Palestine was owned by the Jews. Which came out as 0.8% of the Palestine of today was owned by arab muslims while 7% was owned by the Jews.

 As you have been informed in the past your "source document" is not valid as it was written by a team of ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATERS that were in the pay of the arab muslims. Al, you have is this one biased document and nothing to support its many LIES.


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 They are not facts as there is no other source to support them apart from the ISLAMONAZI's


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 The Israeli's have offered a peaceful transition, it has been the ISLAMONAZI's that have refused to live in peace. The arab muslims in Israel are dying out because of sectarianism on their part so they don't matter. The arab muslims outside will never have the fire power to overrun Israel so that is a non starter. The arab muslims will never organise enough to combine forces and work as a coherent unit so that is doomed to failure. And the UN charter that all ISLAMONAZI states have signed prohibits all out war with the threat of invasion from UN forces using all and every means at their disposal to bring an end to the fighting.

That last threat is what forces the arab muslims to keep out of the Israel/Palestine conflict, the threat of having all AID and business taken away from them and the forced repatriation of tens of millions of muslims from the west.


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
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But they have no land in Palestine do they as they owned only 0.8% as your link shows, and there is no treaty handing them any land in existence. The arab and non arab muslim nations they came from will not allow them to return home as that would destroy the propaganda factor. But very soon this will be a moot point as the last of the refugees will soon die and then there will be no right of return problem. Just as the Palestinians have managed to sort the Jewish problem by stating only Jews born before the Zionist invasion can live as full Palestinians ( Zionism started the migration to Palestine in 1850 so no Jews are left alive that could take up the offer )


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## MJB12741 (Oct 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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It is true that the surrounding Arab countries that united to annihilate Israel put it to the Palestinians but good ultimately leaving them as refugees.


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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The non-Jews owned more than 90% of the land as per the land registries as confirmed by the British:


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Phoenall said:
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The Arab states were a coalition attempting to stop the ethnic cleansing of the non-Jews under the Jew's Plan Dalet.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Oh now I get it.  The Arab countries united for peace with Israel.  So those Zionists started a war with them.  Amazing what we can learn from Monte.  Please excuse me while I go tell my neighbors what I just learned.


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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Just read the Plan Dalet.  Here is what actually happened:

" a report prepared by the intelligence services of the Israeli army, dated 30 June 1948 and entitled “The emigration of Palestinian Arabs in the period 1/12/1947-1/6/1948”. This document sets at 391,000 the number of Palestinians who had already left the territory that was by then in the hands of Israel, and evaluates the various factors that had prompted their decisions to leave. “At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations.” To this figure, the report’s compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which “directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration”. A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to “fears” and “a crisis of confidence” affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases..."

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 Try again as that table shows land usage by owners and TENANTS, you know people who don't own the land but pay rent to the legal owners so they can work it. Table one of this report shows arab muslim ownership to be 0.8% and Jewish ownership to be 4.8%. This table 2 shows that the Jews pay more taxes than the arab muslims because they own more land. This is not an extract from the land registry at all just a breakdown of land usage


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## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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If you did more research , you would see that the jntent of Plan Dale was highly controversial. Some historians say that it was meant to hold Israeli territory (the land allotted to then in resolution 181) abd drfend the borders. I cant copy past for some reason, so go to wikipedia and type in Plan Dalet.
Either way, it was only AFTER the 5 Arab armies attacked Israel that Israel captured 50% of the territory allotted to the Palestinian in resolution 181


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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The arab states were the arab league and declared their intention to wipe out the Jews as far back as 1947 when Jordan mobilised its troops

Jordan - History - The Tragedy of Palestine


*The 1948 Arab-Israeli War*
Prior to the UN General Assembly’s November 1947 decision to partition Palestine, King Abdullah had proposed sending the Arab Legion to defend the Arabs of Palestine. Reacting to the passing of the partition plan, he announced Jordan’s readiness to deploy the full force of the Arab Legion in Palestine. An Arab League meeting held in Amman two days before the expiration of the British mandate concluded that Arab countries would send troops to Palestine to join forces with Jordan’s army
Immediately after the proclamation of the state of Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Iraq sent troops to join with Jordanian forces in order to defend their brethren, the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine.




 Note this is an Islamic source that tells the truth, then we have this that shows the intention was all out genocide of the Jews

Azzam s Genocidal Threat Middle East Quarterly

 Of the countless threats of violence, made by Arab and Palestinian leaders in the run up to and in the wake of the November 29, 1947 partition resolution, none has resonated more widely than the warning by Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's first secretary-general, that the establishment of a Jewish state would lead to "a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades."

*War of Extermination*
An October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit in the Lebanese town of Aley,[9] by _Akhbar al-Yom_'s editor Mustafa Amin, contained an interview he held with Arab League secretary-general Azzam. Titled, "A War of Extermination," the interview read as follows (translated by Efraim Karsh; all ellipses are in the original text):
Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha spoke to me about the horrific war that was in the offing… saying:
"I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine's Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine … You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.
"This war will be distinguished by three serious matters. First—faith: as each fighter deems his death on behalf of Palestine as the shortest road to paradise; second, [the war] will be an opportunity for vast plunder. Third, it will be impossible to contain the zealous volunteers arriving from all corners of the world to avenge the martyrdom of the Palestine Arabs, and viewing the war as dignifying every Arab and every Muslim throughout the world …
"The Arab is superior to the Jew in that he accepts defeat with a smile: Should the Jews defeat us in the first battle, we will defeat them in the second or the third battle … or the final one… whereas one defeat will shatter the Jew's morale! Most desert Arabians take pleasure in fighting. I recall being tasked with mediating a truce in a desert war (in which I participated) that lasted for nine months…While en route to sign the truce, I was approached by some of my comrades in arms who told me: 'Shame on you! You are a man of the people, so how could you wish to end the war … How can we live without war?' This is because war gives the Bedouin a sense of happiness, bliss, and security that peace does not provide! …
"I warned the Jewish leaders I met in London to desist from their policy,[11] telling them that the Arab was the mightiest of soldiers and the day he draws his weapon, he will not lay it down until firing the last bullet in the battle, and we will fire the last shot …"
He [Azzam] ended his conversation with me by saying: "I foresee the consequences of this bloody war. I see before me its horrible battles. I can picture its dead, injured, and victims … But my conscience is clear … For we are not attacking but defending ourselves, and we are not aggressors but defenders against an aggression! …"


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...




Thanks, from the source you linked: It is as I said, the Jordanians and others were trying to prevent the expulsion of the non-Jews by the Jews under the Plan Dalet.  You have been quite helpful.

"Immediately after the proclamation of the state of Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Iraq sent troops to join with Jordanian forces in order to defend their brethren, the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine."


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 AH yes Plan Dalet that was actually this

Plan Dalet - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


*Plan Dalet*, or *Plan D*, (Hebrew: תוכנית ד'‎, _Tokhnit dalet_) was a plan worked out by the Haganah in Mandatory Palestine in March 1948. Its name was from the letter Dalet (ד), the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
Its purpose is much debated. The plan was a set of guidelines to take control of the territory of the Jewish state and to defend its borders and people, including the Jewish population outside of the borders, 'before, and in anticipation of' the invasion by regular Arab armies.[1][2] According to the Israeli Yehoshafat Harkabi, "Plan Dalet" called for the conquest of Arab towns and villages inside and along the borders of the area allocated to the proposed Jewish State - according to the UN Partition Plan.[3] In case of resistance, the population of conquered villages was to be expelled outside the borders of the Jewish state. If no resistance was met, the residents could stay put, under military rule.[qt 1][4][5][6]
The intent of Plan Dalet is subject to much controversy, with historians on one side asserting that it was entirely defensive, while other historians assert that the plan aimed at the expulsion, sometimes called an ethnic cleansing, which was an integral part of a planned strategy.


 Now then monti how long did Plan Dalet last and when did it start ?


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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As soon as the British were no longer in the way, it was designed to expel the non-Jews from "Hebrew" territory.


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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 You forgot this which shows it was initially a war of extermination that failed because the arabs were such losy fighters

Azzam s Genocidal Threat Middle East Quarterly

Of the countless threats of violence, made by Arab and Palestinian leaders in the run up to and in the wake of the November 29, 1947 partition resolution, none has resonated more widely than the warning by Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's first secretary-general, that the establishment of a Jewish state would lead to "a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades."

again from an Islamic source


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## Hossfly (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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Is that the same as the Japanese sending planes to Pearl Harbor to defend their Japanese brethern living in Hawaii? Makes sense to me.


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## Phoenall (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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 The British still had control of Palestine when Plan Dalet was put into operation, and it was purely a defensive action to remove any possible fifth columnists from inside the borders of Israel.

 Now again HOW LONG DID PLAN DALET LAST AND WHEN DID IT START


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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The source is a Zionist propaganda book and even it says that the "threat" you quote is only "believed" to have been said.  "This threat is generally *believed* to have been made"

Thanks again you nitwit.


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

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Balderdash.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The non-Jews owned more than 90% of the land as per the land registries as confirmed by the British: View attachment 32585


Did the british support the contention by bank statements, declarations of income, etc., to confirm that, those major arab settlers and squatters were all millionaires to own 90(!) of all(!) the land of the mandate palestine?


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
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> > The non-Jews owned more than 90% of the land as per the land registries as confirmed by the British: View attachment 32585
> ...



No, they just looked at the land registry and confirmed that 90% of the land belonged to Christians and Muslims.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 6, 2014)

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We know that the ottoman land registry was a mess, so, no proof, of course.


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

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Of course it's proof.  And since this was 1946, there had been over two decades of British administration of the registry.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Let uuus be careful nnot to educate Monte.  He may not like that &


montelatici said:


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Ottoman land registry is a joke.  In fact it was so screwed up it was closed & made tabu by the Ottomans.

Legal Aspects of Property Ownership in Israel - Capital Property Consultants


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

Tabu is the name of the Israeli Land Registry you idiot.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 6, 2014)

Wars have consequences.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1948.  They lost.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1956.  They lost.  Ditto 1967 and 1973.  


Sorry Arabs.  The Jews kicked your ass.  Deal with it.


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

WelfareQueen said:


> Wars have consequences.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1948.  They lost.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1956.  They lost.  Ditto 1967 and 1973.
> 
> 
> Sorry Arabs.  The Jews kicked your ass.  Deal with it.



No, European Jews went to war against the Christians and Muslims of Palestine.  They came from another continent and invaded Palestine, much like the Europeans went to the Americas.  Unlike the Europeans in the Americas vis-a-vis the Native Americans , the Christians and Muslims of Palestine have proven resilient and they now outnumber the Jews, notwithstanding the immigration of the Russian Jews.  Demographics are a bitch.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 6, 2014)

WelfareQueen said:


> Wars have consequences.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1948.  They lost.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1956.  They lost.  Ditto 1967 and 1973.
> 
> 
> Sorry Arabs.  The Jews kicked your ass.  Deal with it.



Seems the Arab countries learned their lesson.  But not so the Palestinians.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


> WelfareQueen said:
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> > Wars have consequences.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1948.  They lost.  The Arabs went to war against the Jews in 1956.  They lost.  Ditto 1967 and 1973.
> ...




Losing wars are a bigger bitch.    The cowardly Arabs have gotten their ass kicked over and over.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 6, 2014)

WelfareQueen said:


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The consequence....it's the Jews Land.  Period.


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## Vigilante (Oct 6, 2014)




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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

WelfareQueen said:


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The Christians and Muslims of Palestine were not cowardly.  They were living in Palestine since the birth of Christ and a bunch of Europeans with superior firepower attacked them.  Their neighbors tried to help them, but the Jews had too much support from the West. Thankfully, they have not given up and they now outnumber the Jews that control them.  It won't be long.  Demographics are a bitch.  Check out what happened in Bolivia, the indigenous people are back in power.  Remember what happened in Algeria, Rhodesia and South Africa.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 6, 2014)

montelatici said:


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The Arabs have lost repeatedly.  Losing wars really do have consequences.  Ask the Nazis.


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## montelatici (Oct 6, 2014)

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Since the Israelis are today's Nazis, ask them.  The war is not over.  The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem (Europeans) won many battles, but in the end the local people won.  It took over a 100 years, but they won with Saladin's help.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 6, 2014)

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Saladin wasn't an Arab.  He was a Kurd.  The Arabs hate the Kurds and have tried to wipe them out for centuries.  

Arabs suck.  Try another example.


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## Hossfly (Oct 6, 2014)

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That's what the man says. And sings about


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## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

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Don't mind Monti, he's just re writing history as usual. I have dismantled his lies so many times already, but he is not prepared to accept the truth.
He is a propaganda machine.


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## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

In May The Egyptians generals told their government that the invasion will be “A parade without any risks” and Tel Aviv “in two weeks”.[88] Egypt, Iraq, and Syria all possessed air forces, Egypt and Syria had tanks, and all had some modern artillery.[89] Initially, the Haganah had no heavy machine guns, artillery, armored vehicles, anti-tank or anti-aircraft weapons,[47] nor military aircraft or tanks.[42] The four Arab armies that invaded on 15 May were far stronger than the Haganah formations they initially encountered [90]

Here yiu go Monti. This is from the wikipedia article about the 1948 Arab Israeli war. 
You see the word INVASION being used. What the Arab countries did is what an invasion is.
The fact that you need lies to debate says a lot about you.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 6, 2014)

toastman said:


> In May The Egyptians generals told their government that the invasion will be “A parade without any risks” and Tel Aviv “in two weeks”.[88] Egypt, Iraq, and Syria all possessed air forces, Egypt and Syria had tanks, and all had some modern artillery.[89] Initially, the Haganah had no heavy machine guns, artillery, armored vehicles, anti-tank or anti-aircraft weapons,[47] nor military aircraft or tanks.[42] The four Arab armies that invaded on 15 May were far stronger than the Haganah formations they initially encountered [90]
> 
> Here yiu go Monti. This is from the wikipedia article about the 1948 Arab Israeli war.
> You see the word INVASION being used. What the Arab countries did is what an invasion is.
> The fact that you need lies to debate says a lot about you.





The Israelis fought for their lives.  The were heavily outnumbered and outgunned.  In the 1967 Egypt under Nassar closed off the straits of Tiran (against a UN order) and threatened "to exterminate the Jews." 

Israel launched a pre-emptive strike and badly beat the Arabs yet again.  Ditto the 1956 War. 

Bottom Line:  Wars have consequences and the Arabs suck.  Deal with it.


Straits of Tiran - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## toastman (Oct 6, 2014)

WelfareQueen said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > In May The Egyptians generals told their government that the invasion will be “A parade without any risks” and Tel Aviv “in two weeks”.[88] Egypt, Iraq, and Syria all possessed air forces, Egypt and Syria had tanks, and all had some modern artillery.[89] Initially, the Haganah had no heavy machine guns, artillery, armored vehicles, anti-tank or anti-aircraft weapons,[47] nor military aircraft or tanks.[42] The four Arab armies that invaded on 15 May were far stronger than the Haganah formations they initially encountered [90]
> ...



Nasser also massed 100 000 troops by the border AND expelled the peacekeeping troops that were put there to keep order after the previous war.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 6, 2014)

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Yes he did.  And again....he and the Arabs lost.  Lesson from history....It's bad to lose Wars.


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## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

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The better lesson from history would be that demographics eventually win the war.  Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia etc.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 7, 2014)

Gosh I wonder why the likes of Monte never bitch about all the stolen Muslim lands conquered by force where the indigenous populations were forced to convert, leave or be killed?


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 7, 2014)

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Nope....tiny white populations in all the above.  Apples/Oranges.  The Jews are in the Holy Land to stay.  They will never leave.  The Arabs know this.  The only answer per the Arabs has always been genocide of the Jewish people.  The Arabs have been very clear about this from the beginning.  They have never desired to live on peace.


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## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

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The Christians and Muslims of Palestine would have lived in peace with the Jews had the Jews not insisted on ruling over them.  The Jewish population is tiny compared to the non-Jewish population.  The Jews will go the way of all colonial enterprises that are unable to overcome the demographics of the colonial enterprise.  Non-Jews now outnumber the Jews in lands the Jews control, and the non-Jew population is increasing its lead.


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## Phoenall (Oct 7, 2014)

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 Now it is a fact as the original source has been found and it was an Egyptian newspaper. I take it you can read Arabic






An October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit in the Lebanese town of Aley,[9] by* Akhbar al-Yom's* editor Mustafa Amin, contained an interview he held with Arab League secretary-general Azzam. Titled, "A War of Extermination," the interview read as follows (translated by Efraim Karsh; all ellipses are in the original text):


 So yet another ISLAMONAZI LIE put to bed.

 Ask nicely and I will post the English translation for you again


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## Phoenall (Oct 7, 2014)

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 Whats wrong Mohamed been found out telling lies about Plan Dalet and saw that it was implemented for just 6 weeks and was legal and allowed under Customary International Law.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 7, 2014)

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No....you're wrong.  Per the CIA Factbook.  Israel is 76% Jewish....24% Arab.  Your point = Fail.


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## Phoenall (Oct 7, 2014)

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 Is that why they committed so many atrocities against the Jews, killed many millions of them, raped their wives and daughters and stole all their property.   Have you read the pact of Omar yet and seen what the Jews and Christians  had to agree to if they wanted to stay alive


We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks' cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.
We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.
We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.
We shall not teach the Qur'an to our children.
We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.
We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.
We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.
We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.
We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.
We shall not sell fermented drinks.
We shall clip the fronts of our heads.
We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists
We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims. We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead. We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.
We shall not take slaves who have beenallotted to Muslims.
We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.


Then we have the Laws of dhimma

Dhimmi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia   I would recommend you read it and see just how you muslims treated everyone they conquered


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## docmauser1 (Oct 7, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Christians and Muslims of Palestine were not cowardly.  They were living in Palestine since the birth of Christ and a bunch of Europeans with superior firepower attacked them.  Their neighbors tried to help them, but the Jews had too much support from the West. Thankfully, they have not given up and they now outnumber the Jews that control them.  It won't be long.  Demographics are a bitch.  Check out what happened in Bolivia, the indigenous people are back in power.  Remember what happened in Algeria, Rhodesia and South Africa.


Drivelaggio.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 7, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Gosh I wonder why the likes of Monte never bitch about all the stolen Muslim lands conquered by force where the indigenous populations were forced to convert, leave or be killed?



Hmmm!  Still no comment from Monte & his terrorist supporting ilk.  Golly gee, I wonder why?  Heh Heh!


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## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > Gosh I wonder why the likes of Monte never bitch about all the stolen Muslim lands conquered by force where the indigenous populations were forced to convert, leave or be killed?
> ...



I respond to facts, it is patently untrue that non-Jews were "forced" to convert.  

"The idea that Islam was spread by the sword has had wide currency at many differeet
times and *the impression is still widespread among the less reflective sections of the media and
the wider public that people converted to Islam because they were forced to do so. This is, of
course, a very useful argument in all sorts of ways. It allows non-Muslims to explain the
otherwise problematic fact that so many people converted to Islam when it was, clearly, an
inferior or even completely wicked religion. Claiming that people were forced to convert meant
avoiding the difficult idea that people might have converted because of inadequacies or failings
among the Christian clergy or worse, the intolerable thought that Islam was the true religion and
that God was on the side of the Muslims. So much easier, then, to say that people were converted
because they had no choice or rather that the choice was between conversion and death*.....
The nature of the early Muslim conquests in the Middle East made forcible conversion
almost impossible. The Muslim armies were comparatively small, between ten and twenty
thousand are possible estimates for the numbers in the armies which conquered Syria and Iraq,
probably fewer in Egypt and Iran. To be sure, more Arab Muslims emigrated from Arabia to
settle in the newly conquered areas but even so the Arab Muslims were a small minority, perhaps
10% of the population of Egypt and perhaps 20% of the most densely settled area, Iraq. In these
circumstances, forcing unwilling people to convert was out of the question.....
There were clear fiscal incentives not to encourage the spread of Islam. As we have seen,
Quran itself had laid down that the unbelievers should pay taxes, called jizya, which was
originally a generic name for tribute of all sorts. By the period in the late eighth century when the
Muslim fiscal system reached its maturity, it had been established that the dhimmis should pay a
poll-tax. All landowners were now obliged to pay the kharaj or land tax but the dhimmis suffered
under extra fiscal burdens. The produce of the jizya was very useful because it was paid in cash.
This became specially valuable in the years when structure of caliphal finance collapsed. Land
tax became much more difficult to collect and was often assigned away to bureaucrats or soldiers.
Petty rulers and warlords could still collect the jizya in cash money. *There were, in short, clear
reasons why Muslim governments would not want to encourage conversion to Islam. They were
in most cases effectively unable to prevent conversion but they were certainly not going to use
force to achieve it.

http://www.yale.edu/macmillan/rps/kennedy.pdf*


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## MJB12741 (Oct 7, 2014)

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LMAO!  Just how nutty are you?  Go tell what you just posted to a Zoroastrian.


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## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

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Just posting a scholarly work from Yale.  You can go ahead and spout nonsense.


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## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

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The "fail" is the fact that you are not very clever.  The Jews control the borders, air space an territorial sea of the area that includes a population of 4.5 million non-Jews, Christians and Muslims.  You can play your silly game, the same game the South African whites played with the Bantustans, but frankly, I don't think your pea brain can figure that out.


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## Hossfly (Oct 7, 2014)

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Apples and oranges, dood.


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## montelatici (Oct 7, 2014)

Hossfly said:


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Not at all.  But go delusional if you like.


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 7, 2014)

Monte....no offense but every point you have made has been completely shot down.  Okay if you want to defend the Arabs...but history is not on your side.  

Btw....according to the Koran non-Muslims are only presented three options.  1. Convert.  2. Become a subjugated people and pay a jizya.  3.  Or be killed. 

None of those sound real appealing to me....how about to you?


Jizya - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Hossfly (Oct 7, 2014)

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And we are to believe that all those devout Christians just rolled over for the Arab invaders and happily converted to Islam.  Why don't we just Google History of Jihad to see what happened in many countries?  It certainly looks like the one-man propaganda machine must have had his Wheaties this morning. He is going, going, going and never seems to stop as all the viewers will notice.  One would think that since he supposedly is a Christian, he would have a little bit of a problem with what these early Christians had to go through in the Middle East when their countries were invaded.


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## toastman (Oct 7, 2014)

WelfareQueen said:


> Monte....no offense but every point you have made has been completely shot down.  Okay if you want to defend the Arabs...but history is not on your side.
> 
> Btw....according to the Koran non-Muslims are only presented three options.  1. Convert.  2. Become a subjugated people and pay a jizya.  3.  Or be killed.
> 
> ...



"every point you made has been completely shut down"

Exactly, I've been telling him this for a while now. Yet he still runs around spewing the same lies. It says a lot about someones agenda when they need to repeat the same lies that have been dismantled numerous times


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## MJB12741 (Oct 7, 2014)

toastman said:


> WelfareQueen said:
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> > Monte....no offense but every point you have made has been completely shot down.  Okay if you want to defend the Arabs...but history is not on your side.
> ...



I suspect the biggest problem with Monte is his lack of ability to think issues through rationally on his own.  Any fool can find links to support any position on any issue.  But unless one can think rationally to sort out the truth, he or she is worthless to any rational discussion.


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

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The amount of propaganda that you Israel Firsters have succumbed to have made it impossible for you to recognize propaganda when it slams you in the face. Historical fact which negates every propaganda point you people present is ignored.

Even logic doesn't work.  One wonders how the Reconquista was possible given that all Iberians were, according to you, forced to convert. 

Taking parts of the Old Testament or the Koran and making sweeping generalizations based on those parts shows how certain minds can be molded through propaganda.  

Anyway, as far as the Koran goes, parts seem to promote a live and let live position:

Say: O disbelievers!
I worship not that which ye worship; 
Nor worship ye that which I worship. 
And I shall not worship that which ye worship. 
Nor will ye worship that which I worship. 
Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
Qur'an 109:1-6


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

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Here we go again. The propaganda machine accusing others of posting propaganda. 
BTW, Monti, you still never backed up your claim that Jews killed Arabs before Arabs killed Jews. I posted SPECIFIC incidents with links but you have yet to prove your point


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

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When a person needs to consistently lie, even after those lies have been dismantled with indisputable evidence, it sure says a lot about their agenda i.e Monti. 

Lying, distorting history and posting non stop propaganda; it's the pro Palestinian way.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The amount of propaganda that you Israel Firsters have succumbed to have made it impossible for you to recognize propaganda when it slams you in the face. Historical fact which negates every propaganda point you people present is ignored.


Was it a joke?


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## MJB12741 (Oct 8, 2014)

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Monte would be shot down in flames in a logical debate without using some biased links.


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

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Oh, that's right. 

Unfortunately it's from a book and probably not on the internet but I have scanned a page which discusses how the conflict began very early on with Jews walking around with guns.


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

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Oh my goodness!! They were walking around with guns!! The horror!
There is zero evidence of any massacre/attacks by Jews against Arabs that predates Arab massacres of Jews . It's that simple.


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

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What's the name if this book BTW?


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

Ottoman Policy and Practice.


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Yes, to shoot Fellain shepherds.


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Ottoman Policy and Practice.
> 
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Except you have t posted and links to any massacres against Arabs that precede the attacks against Jews.


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

The critically injured Arab subsequently died,  But it really doesn't matter as the Zionist's intentions were clear:

"Vladimir Jabotinsky, a journalist, militant nationalist and father of right-wing Zionism, insisted on Jewish sovereignty over all of Palestine and Transjordan, a position known as “Revisionism.” In 1923, he produced a plan titled “The Iron Wall” which called for the submission of Palestinians through force.  

Jabotsinky wrote: “Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement. This is how the Arabs will behave and go on behaving so long as they possess a gleam of hope that they can prevent ‘Palestine’ from becoming the Land of Israel … nothing in the world can cause them to relinquish this hope, precisely because they are not a rabble but a living people … All colonization must continue in defiance of the will of the native population. Therefore, it can continue and develop only under the shield of force…”  

Article Details


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## MJB12741 (Oct 8, 2014)

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Good point.  The first DOCUMENTED massacre was that of Hebron in 1929.  But don't let Monte know that.  He can't deal with documented facts & I fear if he learns them he will leave us.  Then where would we go for fun & laughs?


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## montelatici (Oct 8, 2014)

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Of course, if you neglect the Ottoman period, before the Mandate, you would come to that conclusion.


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## toastman (Oct 8, 2014)

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Actually, Arab massacred Jews even before the British Mandate:

1834 Safed pogrom - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

1834 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia  (This was Egyptians killing Jews)

1838 Druze attack on Safed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

Israel has the capability to kill all the Palestinians but lack the desire.  The Palestinians have the desire to kill all the Israeli's but lack the capability.  So on & on the conflict goes with Palestinians now squatting on Israel's land for generations.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Israel has the capability to kill all the Palestinians but lack the desire.  The Palestinians have the desire to kill all the Israeli's but lack the capability.  So on & on the conflict goes with Palestinians now squatting on Israel's land for generations.



Israel wants to kill or ethnically cleanse  all the non-Jews, and would if they thought they could get away with it without the world sanctioning the place back to the stone age.  It's the Jews that are squatting on the land of the Christians and Muslims.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

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All Hasbara or CAMERA edits. Good move.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

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Are those Hasbara or CAMERA edits? Don't send me Wiki links related to Jews or Israel, they are all tainted.



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## WelfareQueen (Oct 9, 2014)

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> MJB12741 said:
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> > Israel has the capability to kill all the Palestinians but lack the desire.  The Palestinians have the desire to kill all the Israeli's but lack the capability.  So on & on the conflict goes with Palestinians now squatting on Israel's land for generations.
> ...




Funny....but you have roughly 5,000 years of history and religious text which completely obliterates your conclusions.  But nice try anyway.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

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I have fact.  Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine and were more than 95% of the population.  There were a handful of Jews there before 1850.  After 1850 Jews from Europe went to Palestine in great numbers and expelled most of the Christians and Muslims.  Can't deny this as fact, or do you want me to provide all the source material again?


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

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Thank you sir for posting this.   It is important that everyone knows the internet is filled with anti Zionist & anti Israel propaganda.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Aren't you precious.  But, when you try to be clever, it allows me to link more facts and it makes you and your Hasbara friends look even sillier, Moshe.

"Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.

Outside the CAMERA infrastructure, other Israeli groups also troll Wikipedia. Special Wikipedia editing classes have been sponsored on illegal settlements in the West Bank by the organizations Yesha Council and Israel Sheli. CAMERA's efforts were joined by the Hasbara Foundation (Hasbara is the term used for any Jew around the world who advances the propaganda of Israel). In 2007, the Hasbara Foundation, decrying the presence of unbiased information on Israel on Wikipedia, targeted certain editors' entries. The Hasbara Foundation claimed, "These authors have systematically yet subtly rewritten key passages of thousands of Wikipedia entries to portray Israel in a negative light. You have the opportunity to stop this dangerous trend! If you are interested in joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately, please contact [the Hasbara Foundation] director."

Complementing the Wikipedia troll editing is the Israeli government program seeking supporters to post pro-Israel comments on Internet news websites. In 2009, the Israeli Foreign Ministry budgeted 600,000 shekels (approximately $150,000) for its
"internet warriors" to post pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian messages on various comments sections of news websites. Since then, the effort, called "Hasbara 2.0," has grown in size and budget."

August 11-12 2014 -- Wikipedia troll editing - Wayne Madsen Report


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Aren't you precious.  But, when you try to be clever, it allows me to link more facts and it makes you and your Hasbara friends look even sillier, Moshe.
> 
> "Troll editing on Wikipedia has been linked directly to such quasi-Israeli government entities as the media "watchdog" operation "CAMERA," or Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America." CAMERA, formed in 1982 by a group of Jewish activists in Boston tied to the Israeli government, has been the bane of many a newspaper editor or television news reporter. The group had a vendetta against ABC's Peter Jennings and the formerly rather unbiased National Public Radio for their even-handed Middle East reporting. At least five Wikipedia editors were found to be trolling for CAMERA and they were suspended. However, the rules governing Wikipedia permit many other CAMERA and pro-Israel trolls to operate with impunity.
> 
> ...



You are so funny.  The internet is filled with anti Zionist & anti Israel garbage & this is what you have to say about it.  Heh Heh!


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
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> 
> > Aren't you precious.  But, when you try to be clever, it allows me to link more facts and it makes you and your Hasbara friends look even sillier, Moshe.
> ...




How strange that contrary to what you say, the Israelis have budgets to train people to troll Wiki.  LOL You nutcases just can't accept fact.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

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 So why didn't the authors put their names to it, or was it an example of what not to write.

 No author   so no validity


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

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 The USA can drop p0lanes out of the sky if they believe they could be running guns to a terrorist group.

 The USA can and does stop people from entering the USA

 The USA imposes restrictions on the seas around the USA and extends these controls into the territorial waters of other nations

 So your point is a fail on all aspects, and until the Palestinians get Tanks, Planes and sophisticated weapons they are beat by superior fire power. Goodbye to your demographics Mohamed, they have had 66 years of superior demographics and have failed to do anything with them


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
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> ...




 It wasn't demographics that led to the downfall of the rulers but terrorism, and now all 3 nations are seen as no go areas with the highest violent ceime rates of anywhere in the world. They even make Syria look like a playschool in comparison.

 Is that what you plan for Palestine, endless violence and mass murders of the arab muslims as each side fights for power.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
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Hugh Kennedy, a professor at Yale, if you had taken the time to go on the Yale.edu site.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
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 But they are not Palestinian muslims are they....................


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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How can my point be a "fail" as you childishly imply.  You are confirming that Israel controls the borders.  You are truly dense.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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No, Hasbara and CAMERA employs Jews for the most part.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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Of course it was demographics and violent resistance.


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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Didn't you use theguardian the other day as a source ? Do you have any idea how biased that site is? Instead of criticizing the source, criticize the article


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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I should not have to, it should be provided by the source material. But on checking I find he is actually with the SOAS University of London an ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA edifice. So want to try again  with the truth this tome. He is not a fellow of Yale is he, he just paid to have his ANTI SEMITIC work published by Yale.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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The Guardian is not biased at all, in Europe it is a middle of the road newspaper.   Perhaps a right-wing Nazi might think it's biased. The Morning Star might be left wing and the Torygraph (Telegraph) right-wing but not as right wing as Fox News.


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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Of course YOU don't think it's biased. You're a brainwashed expert propagandist 

But in reality, it's an extremely biased anti Israel site.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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No because the numbers had always been there, so they were not part of the equation. It was terrorism and threats that forced the changes, and look were it got the people. many are murdered by the new order that promised them the earth, anyone that looks like they could muster any opposition is murdered after being tortured to get the names of co conspirators.

 But you still have not answered the question     IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT FOR PALESTINE UNDER THE NEW ORDER ?


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > montelatici said:
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So the University of London, School of Oriental and African Studies is an Islamonazi propaganda "edifice"?  Can you provide some back up to your assertion?


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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 The Guardian is known as the grauniad in the UK were it is published, it has no base outside of the UK. So why LIE to bull up your source.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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No, you and your Hasbara buddies are the brainwashed nutcases.  I just have facts on my side, and that upsets you.  It helps that I am quite a bit smarter than you fools. By the way, is there any news organization that is not biased against Israel, in your opinion?  I doubt it. To you and your ilk any truthful reporting, which invariably shows Israel in a bad light, is bias.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Could you please elaborate as what I lied about?


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

But, would you say that this newspaper is also biased?

 " 'Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"

 Advertisement

or this one?

"Wikipedia Editing for Zionists"

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ting-for-zionists/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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 Yep as all it deals with is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA it is in its name and its boasts.


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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 That in Europe it is seen as a middle of the road newspaper, when in fact it is only read by anti semitic Jew haters


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## Phoenall (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> But, would you say that this newspaper is also biased?
> 
> " 'Zionist editing' on Wikipedia"
> 
> ...





 Yes Haaretz allows anyone to post on their news site, and has the usual get out clause that it is not responsible for the authors words.

A blog is hardly a newspaper is it, all it is in reality is the views of the individual


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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LOL you're just copying what I said. If you would only post fact, I wouldn't have anything to dismantle.
The fact of the matter is, I have used links with indisputable evidence to dismantle many of your lies. You are brainwashed and an expert in propaganda.
No matter how many times you run around here saying you speak facts, the REAL fact remains that you're a liar, as many posters have already pointed out, and you simply cannot handle the fact that I have exposed your lies to everyone here. 
I thought Tinmore was bad at distorting history, but you take it to a new level ! 
Monti, you are a lying propagandist and denying it won't change the fact !


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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"I am a bit smarter than you fools"

            

That was almost as funny as your "I'm known for posting facts" post


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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Wiki is not indisputable, it can change daily.  I only post fact almost always from source documents.  I have never lied and no lies were ever exposed.  Don't delude yourself.  You are just upset that I make you look like a fool.


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
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Than refute the article not the source.

Please show me ONE instance where you have made a fool of me. Just one .


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
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Glutton for punishment?  You sure you want me to post the population figures from the 1921 Report of the Mandatory which completely contradicts your assertion that there were few non-Jews in Palestine and that they "immigrated" to Palestine?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> You sure you want me to post the population figures from the 1921 Report of the Mandatory which completely contradicts your assertion that there were few non-Jews in Palestine and that they "immigrated" to Palestine?


And Transjordan (75% of the mandate palestine) hadn't yet have been handed over to emir Abdullah. We know. We're also eagerly waiting for an explanation how those major arab settlers from the hood all got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the government-owned mandate palestine?


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > You sure you want me to post the population figures from the 1921 Report of the Mandatory which completely contradicts your assertion that there were few non-Jews in Palestine and that they "immigrated" to Palestine?
> ...





You really want to be made a fool of.  Trans-Jordania was discussed separately in a separate section as a separate territory.  As you can see its population was 350,000. You people are such fools, you ask for it.  I guess you have been so brainwashed with propaganda you can't think straight, or read. LOL 

X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.

Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins.* Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. *It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921 


On the land, you have to ask the British who audited the Land Registries and prepared the Report


 , not me.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> You really want to be made a fool of.  Trans-Jordania was discussed separately in a separate section as a separate territory.  As you can see its population was 350,000. You people are such fools, you ask for it.  I guess you have been so brainwashed with propaganda you can't think straight, or read. LOL


Excellent! So, Transjordan was part of the mandate palestine, not yet given to emir Abdullah! Cool! 700,000 total!


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > You really want to be made a fool of.  Trans-Jordania was discussed separately in a separate section as a separate territory.  As you can see its population was 350,000. You people are such fools, you ask for it.  I guess you have been so brainwashed with propaganda you can't think straight, or read. LOL
> ...





docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > You really want to be made a fool of.  Trans-Jordania was discussed separately in a separate section as a separate territory.  As you can see its population was 350,000. You people are such fools, you ask for it.  I guess you have been so brainwashed with propaganda you can't think straight, or read. LOL
> ...



"is the territory of Trans-Jordania"  and you want to made a fool of again I see.  The Emir (from Trans-Jordania) travelled from Trans-Jordania to Palestine, a different territory. See how all the propaganda you have absorbed comes to haunt you Zionist lovers.  

"I paid a visit to Amman on April 18th as the guest of the Emir and explained in an address to the sheikhs and notables the arrangement that had been made. *The Emir came to Palestine again in the month of May*." - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


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## docmauser1 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
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Did he buy 90% of the mandate palestine and made arab settlers "saudi sheiks"?


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
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> > montelatici said:
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Bless you Monte for being such a good sport to keep us lauighing at you all the time.  So little left for us to laugh at these days with those you support killing us infidels all over the world.  Don't you agree?


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


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Too many facts for you I see. Don't appreciate having your Zionist myths debunked, do you.  It is everyone else that is laughing at you and watching you squirm.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
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LOL!  You missed your calling buddy.  Should have been a stand up comic.  Bye the way, how are they treating you on the funny farm?


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
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It seems that when presented with facts that blow holes in your propaganda laden baggage, it reduces you to childish attacks.  Pathetic.


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## Hossfly (Oct 9, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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As you can see, MJB, Monte has a very important job here, demonizing Israel night and day, so he is going to call anything a pro Israel person says as a myth.  We can read up on some of the Palestinian myths.

Palestinian Myths


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
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Here is a fact.  You are one fun guy for the Israel supporters to play with.  I think the least Israel should do to show our appreciation is to plant a tree in your name.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
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Uh oh.  Now we are looking at those facts Monte refers to.  Sure look forward to seeing his reply.


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## montelatici (Oct 9, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
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Again, posting the propaganda ramblings of a Hasbara employee.  Why can't you people provide facts from something halfway official?  That's right, because the facts debunk the Zionist propaganda.  By the way, I have debunked most of that propaganda already, with facts from official documents, like the myth that Palestinians were invented in 1967, showing letters from the Palestinain Delegation to the British where they call themselves the Palestinian people in 1922.  Grow up losers.


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## Hossfly (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Notice that when someone uses Arab propaganda sites, such as Palestine Remembered, Monte has nothing to say.  When someone uses something that is against his viewpoint, then whatever site they are using it is Zionist propaganda to him.  I found it very informative when a retired State Department employee was posting, and he told us when Arafat was told to call the Arabs as Palestinians, and this happened to be someplace in Russia.  In fact, the poster told us the exact location.  The guys down at the State Department must have gotten a good laugh to see how people are given a new label.  Before it was just Arab or Syrian, and all of a sudden it became Palestinian.


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## RoccoR (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

Such small victories, over such insignificant issues, must make you feel ecstatic.

The disseminate abroad of positive information about Israel (Hasbara) is a lesson in Public Diplomacy.  In this discussion group, I see no evidence of an employment status _(I leave that to your opinion)_.  But the implication is that those, label as "Hasbara" should accept it with a measure of personal pride, as it holds a connotation of being both positive in nature and an advocate of Israel in the face of negative --- and often confrontational --- anti-Israeli disparaging debates.  My understanding is that the origins of the meaning in the word "Hasbara" rests with the projected impression of "explanation;" strives to illuminate the positive aspects and advocate the Israeli side to the key issues of the day.  It is essential in the method of interactive and representational argument --- such as we have here in the USMB.



montelatici said:


> Again, posting the propaganda ramblings of a Hasbara employee.  Why can't you people provide facts from something halfway official?  That's right, because the facts debunk the Zionist propaganda.  By the way, I have debunked most of that propaganda already, with facts from official documents, like the myth that Palestinians were invented in 1967, showing letters from the Palestinain Delegation to the British where they call themselves the Palestinian people in 1922.  Grow up losers.


*(COMMENT)*

Each culture and each people, must make their own journey to who they are and what they will become.  The name they call themselves is unimportant; even inconsequential.  Yet, the journey is about the character and nature of who they are and what the outside observer sees as their qualities; as a preponderance of their deeds and actions as they are observed over time.

There is a very interesting article in last months on-line Magazine called:  Al-Monitor - _Palestine Pulse
_
*New Palestinian film shuns stereotypes*
The common saying that one person’s freedom fighter is another’s terrorist well describes how the world is often divided over the Palestinian resistance.
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/09/palestinian-new-movie-avoid-heroism-arab-cinema.html##ixzz3FhxAiFHz​
It is well worth the few minutes to read.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## toastman (Oct 9, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
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> > Hossfly said:
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Shhhhhh propagandatici..relax. Don't feel left out that you are a lying propaganda spewing brainwashed sheep. There are many others like you here 
And ironically enough, they are pro Palestinian like you ! What are the chances!!!


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## MJB12741 (Oct 9, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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Monte has to rely on such biased links due to his inability to think things through for himsef to see the truth.


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## Andylusion (Oct 10, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Hossfly said:
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I doubt any of them can think objectively about anything.    You have to be extremely brain damaged to support a group of people that were willing to auction off their childs life, and actually strap bombs to their children.

All the other crap, and history, and Jews did this, and Jews did that, simply doesn't logically result in you thinking "you know, I support those parents who actively push their kids too blow themselves up".

The kind of sub-human that supports that, doesn't matter what they think about anything, anymore than what a dog thinks.

When a bunch of monkeys mock you.... who cares?  They're monkeys.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Such small victories, over such insignificant issues, must make you feel ecstatic.
> 
> ...


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> Such small victories, over such insignificant issues, must make you feel ecstatic.
> 
> ...



When you and your ilk deny the existence of the Palestinian people and use that debunked myth of the Palestinians not existing until 1967, it sure does matter what people call and think about themselves:

PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION -

Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
JUNE, 1922.
LONDON:​...................If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere.* If to-day the People of Palestine *assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration....................."

. - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922 
​
- See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922 

 See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


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## MJB12741 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,  _et al,_
> ...



HUH???  Native Palestinians have existed as far back as the Ottoman Empire.  They were JEWS, primarily located in the holy cities of Jerusalem, Safed, Hebron & Tiberius.  Today's Muslim Palestinians are overwhelmingly a bunch of squatters with no titles or deeds whatsoever to the land they stole.


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
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There were only a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.  95% of the Palestinians were Christians and Muslims as late as 1896, and 50% of Jerusalem was Christian and Muslim.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
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Fine, so tell us how many Muslims were in Palestine prior to the 7th century?  Get it yet?  Mostly just a bunch of land theiving squatters.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> There were only a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.  95% of the Palestinians were Christians and Muslims as late as 1896, and 50% of Jerusalem was Christian and Muslim.


And then, as amply described by Winston Churchill of blessed memory "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
Churchill knew his settling-squatting arabs, of course.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 10, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > There were only a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.  95% of the Palestinians were Christians and Muslims as late as 1896, and 50% of Jerusalem was Christian and Muslim.
> ...



Let us forgive Monte.  He often demonstrates he cannot think rationally.  His only option is to find links to do his thinking for him.


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## montelatici (Oct 10, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > There were only a handful of Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.  95% of the Palestinians were Christians and Muslims as late as 1896, and 50% of Jerusalem was Christian and Muslim.
> ...



Quoting a lie from a Zionist site, as usual.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Yeah, right.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
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Heck Monte, I'll bet those Zionists don't even subscribe to the Palestine Monitor for unbiased truthful facts.  Heh Heh!


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## MJB12741 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MJB12741 said:
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LMAO!  Now THAT'S funny.


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## Phoenall (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
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> > montelatici said:
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 You do not even know what source documentation is at the end of the day. And your latest posts show this as you use a proven false document that was later revised by the LoN. Then you use a report that says the exact opposite of what you claim so leave the truth out in future posts to hide your stupidity


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## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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> > toastman said:
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LoN document was never revised.  The Mandatory's Report says what it says, no interpretation necessary. The Telegraph is not 'anti Israel", quite the opposite. Stop lying you sociopath. The only links you provide are from Hasbara sites.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> LoN document was never revised.  The Mandatory's Report says what it says, no interpretation necessary. The Telegraph is not 'anti Israel", quite the opposite. Stop lying you sociopath. The only links you provide are from Hasbara sites.


Is The Telephone anti-israel?


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## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > LoN document was never revised.  The Mandatory's Report says what it says, no interpretation necessary. The Telegraph is not 'anti Israel", quite the opposite. Stop lying you sociopath. The only links you provide are from Hasbara sites.
> ...



Oh dear.  We can understand why these Israel Firsters are such dummies.  The Telegraph is a right wing London broadsheet.


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## Daniyel (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Oh my,  such dummies we are.
Right or Left wing is not related to this bullshit, its like saying IS are right wing organization, stupid as usually.


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## montelatici (Oct 11, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



In the West right wing media tends to support Israel.  You are the one showing stupidity.


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## Andylusion (Oct 11, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



He's a rat.   Dogs would defend their pups, not strap bombs to them.  Never seen a dog yet that when it's pups are threatened, say "I'll show you" and straps bombs to their pups.

Rodents eat their young sometimes, and that's the kind of animal Montecrap defends.  He's as much a sub-human as they are.


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## Andylusion (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Doesn't matter.  I don't care who supports Israel against these beasts.  Regardless of who it is, they are wrong, and you .... are scum, just like those you support.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


What The Telephone is then?


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## MJB12741 (Oct 12, 2014)

Androw said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Which life form is lower, Palestinians who kill their own offspring or roaches who don't?


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## MJB12741 (Oct 13, 2014)

Wouldn't it be funny if the Siberians started claiming Russia is stealing their land like the Palestinians claim against Israel?


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## montelatici (Oct 13, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> Wouldn't it be funny if the Siberians started claiming Russia is stealing their land like the Palestinians claim against Israel?



What would be funny about it?  The native people of Siberia resisted Russian migration for many decades and do claim their land was stolen.  You really are one idiot, grasping at straws to try to justify the theft of land and expulsion of the non-Jews, but you always put your foot in your mouth.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> What would be funny about it?  The native people of Siberia resisted Russian migration for many decades and do claim their land was stolen.  You really are one idiot, grasping at straws to try to justify the theft of land and expulsion of the non-Jews, but you always put your foot in your mouth.


Who made that drivel up?


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## montelatici (Oct 13, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > What would be funny about it?  The native people of Siberia resisted Russian migration for many decades and do claim their land was stolen.  You really are one idiot, grasping at straws to try to justify the theft of land and expulsion of the non-Jews, but you always put your foot in your mouth.
> ...



Just fact.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Just drivel.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 13, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Please go easy on Monte.  If we tick him off he may leave us. Then where will we go for fun & laughs?


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## MJB12741 (Oct 13, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



I am still trying to learn, when did Israel's land since antiquity become this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing?


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## montelatici (Oct 13, 2014)

Palestine was not Jew since the time of Christ until a bunch of Europeans of the Jewish religion stole the land from its rightful owners in 1948.  It was more than 90% non Jew in 1943.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 13, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Palestine was not Jew since the time of Christ until a bunch of Europeans of the Jewish religion stole the land from its rightful owners in 1948.  It was more than 90% non Jew in 1943.
> 
> View attachment 32846



That is absurd & insignificant to the question.  Are you saying the Al Asqa Mosque predates Solomon's Temple??? 

Once again I will allow you another try as to who is stealing who's land.


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## MJB12741 (Oct 14, 2014)

MJB12741 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine was not Jew since the time of Christ until a bunch of Europeans of the Jewish religion stole the land from its rightful owners in 1948.  It was more than 90% non Jew in 1943.
> ...



Over & over again Monte proves that one need not necessarily have to be a Palestinian to have a Palestinian  mentality.


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