# Prepare for gun grabber tears.... Senate anti-gun proposals don't seem to give them what they wanted.....good....I hope it stays that way...



## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2022)

The proposed deal in the Senate on violating the Rights of Americans.....at first look, it doesn't seem like the democrats got the anti-gun laws they wanted.....but we may actually address the problems of mass public shooters....something that also hurts the democrats...since mass public shootings, in particular, school shootings, are their Christmas day.....

*Intervention Orders*
●     Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.

*Investment in Children and Family Mental Health Services*
●     National expansion of community behavioral health center model; major investments to increase access to mental health and suicide prevention programs; and other support services available in the community, including crisis and trauma intervention and recovery.

*Protections for Victims of Domestic Violence*
●     Convicted domestic violence abusers and individuals subject to domestic violence restraining orders are included in NICS, including those who have or have had a continuing relationship of a romantic or intimate nature.

*Funding for School-Based Mental Health and Supportive Services*
●     Invests in programs to expand mental health and supportive services in schools, including: early identification and intervention programs and school based mental health and wrap-around services.

*Funding for School Safety Resources*
●     Invests in programs to help institute safety measures in and around primary and secondary schools, support school violence prevention efforts and provide training to school personnel and students.

*Clarification of Definition of Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer*
●     Cracks down on criminals who illegally evade licensing requirements.

*Telehealth Investments*
●     Invests in programs that increase access to mental and behavioral health services for youth and families in crisis via telehealth.

*Under 21 Enhanced Review Process*
●     For buyers under 21 years of age, requires an investigative period to review juvenile and mental health records, including checks with state databases and local law enforcement.

*Penalties for Straw Purchasing*
● Cracks down on criminals who illegally straw purchase and traffic guns.









						Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced: No 'Assault Weapons' Ban, No Raised Minimum Rifle Age
					

The bipartisan deal on gun control excludes President Joe Biden's "assault weapons" ban and a raised minimum age for rifle purchases.




					www.breitbart.com
				




Doesn't look too bad...but the anti-gunners will always exploit any loophole......

Just realized...this is the Senate, not the House......never going to fly in the House....they want the guns, they don't care about protecting actual children..


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## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

It’s a start

Hard to get the Senate to do anything


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## Sunsettommy (Jun 12, 2022)

A rare reasonable starting point for dealing with mentally unstable to ill people who are doing most the damage.


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## BackAgain (Jun 12, 2022)

Seizing guns isn’t an answer. Seeking to better prevent the dangerous mentally Ill from having guns at all is a more reasonable solution and one which has a prospect of working.


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## johngaltshrugged (Jun 12, 2022)

The problem is, and they have admitted this, the true goal is to make owning guns totally illegal.
No matter what they are saying, that is their true goal.
Give an inch & they will take a mile.
I won't give up jack shit.

_"to make sure we eliminated assault weapons. The idea you need a weapon that can have the ability to fire 20, 30, 40, 50, 120 shots from that weapon, *whether it’s a 9mm pistol or whether it’s a rifle, is ridiculous*. I’m continuing to push to eliminate the sale of those things."_


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## Sunsettommy (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> The problem is, and they have admitted this, the true goal is to make owning guns totally illegal.
> No matter what they are saying, that is their true goal.
> Give an inch & they will take a mile.
> I won't give up jack shit.
> ...



Democrats have been losing on this topic argument for many years now the states are dumping the requirement for a permit to carry a gun in public up to 26 states with zero carry permit requirements and more is to come.


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## johngaltshrugged (Jun 12, 2022)

BackAgain said:


> Seizing guns isn’t an answer. Seeking to better prevent the dangerous mentally Ill from having guns at all is a more reasonable solution and one which has a prospect of working.


Then you run into problems with who is determining what qualifies as "dangerous mentally ill".
That's a slippery slope when they accuse anybody that refuses masks, clot shots or to believe lies about weather & elections being fraud free as being dangerous & mentally ill.
I will never agree to have some lunatic lefty judge my capacity to exercise my rights.
We want to stop these seriously deranged psychos from obtaining weapons & their mass shootings but you have to be real careful when the odds say they will use anything like this to disarm political opponents


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## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> Then you run into problems with who is determining what qualifies as "dangerous mentally ill".



Most Trump voters


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## Sunsettommy (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> Then you run into problems with who is determining what qualifies as "dangerous mentally ill".
> That's a slippery slope when they accuse anybody that refuses masks, clot shots or to believe lies about weather & elections being fraud free as being dangerous & mentally ill.
> I will never agree to have some lunatic lefty judge my capacity to exercise my rights.
> We want to stop these seriously deranged psychos from obtaining weapons & their mass shootings but you have to be real careful when they odds are they will use anything like this to disarm political opponents



The NRA has been on this point for a while, they want only the* imminent danger/threat clause to be considered *which *Cruz and Ramos clearly qualified *not a blanket cover of all people considered to have some form of mental problem who are not really diagnosed as being a threat to people.


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## Tommy Tainant (Jun 12, 2022)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/senate-gun-deal-framework/
		


It looks incredibly superficial to me but I suppose establishing the principle is important at this stage.
Keeping guns from crazies  is a major step forward and I beleie rips up some of trumps nonsense.


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## johngaltshrugged (Jun 12, 2022)

Gin control? Put down the bottle Tommy, you're spilling it all over yourself.
If you mean "gun" control, that simply means hitting your target
No problems here buddy but thanks for the concern!


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## McRib (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> Gin control? Put down the bottle Tommy, you're spilling it all over yourself.
> If you mean "gun" control, that simply means hitting your target
> No problems here buddy but thanks for the concern!
> 
> View attachment 657020



That meme is almost as stupid as you are. It makes about as much sense as you do.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/senate-gun-deal-framework/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  So, not only ignorant and arrogant, but drunk, as well.

  Perhaps you should worry about your own pathetic little shithole of a country, and just keep your filthy drunk faggot nose out of America's business, where it does not belong.


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## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

McRib said:


> That meme is almost as stupid as you are. It makes about as much sense as you do.


That meme is spot on.

Liberals can often be found both ridiculing the idea of AR15s as a means for civilians to defend themselves from an out-of-control government and also claiming dread fear of AR15s because they are "weapons of war."



Tommy Tainant said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/senate-gun-deal-framework/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your link is to a paywall, sir.  Can you quote a relevant paragraph so I know how the bill will keep guns out of the hands of crazies?

Or just tell me in your own words.  How, for example, would this bipartisan bill have prevented the Uvalde school shooting?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> Gin control? Put down the bottle Tommy, you're spilling it all over yourself.
> If you mean "gun" control, that simply means hitting your target
> No problems here buddy but thanks for the concern!
> 
> View attachment 657020


This is a lie.

The proposed measure has no provisions for regulating firearms.


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## Donald H (Jun 12, 2022)

Even if it passes it's still quite meaningless. Nothing short of dealing with the  violence that's been created by America's continuous wars and culture of killing, is going to lessen the mass shootings.

But that can never be accepted, on account of self-condemnation by Americans of themselves.


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## westwall (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/senate-gun-deal-framework/
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Yes, you should probably control your GIN use.

Retard.


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## Tommy Tainant (Jun 12, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> So, not only ignorant and arrogant, but drunk, as well.
> 
> Perhaps you should worry about your own pathetic little shithole of a country, and just keep your filthy drunk faggot nose out of America's business, where it does not belong.


So you dont like both parties working on a solution to school massacres ? You are part of the problem mormon bob.


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## westwall (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> So you dont like bth parties working on a solution to school massacres ? You are part of the problem mormon bob.





Not when they ignore the problems and only try and disarm the populace.

Moron.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> So you dont [sic] like bth [sic] parties working on a solution to school massacres ? You are part of the problem mormon bob.



  First of all, you are not a member of either party.  You're not even an American.  You're a British piece of shit, who has no standing, and no say with regard to how we Americans run our country, and nearly everything that you think you know about our country is just plain wrong.

   Second, the only ones that are made safer by denying law-abiding human beings the right to keep and bear arms are criminals, crazies, and tyrants.  Anyone who claims that this is being proposed to make human beings safer is lying, or deceived, or both.

  Third, the only purpose for your very existence is to remind us Americans why we kicked the British filth out of our country almost two and a half centuries ago.  You have no other standing, and no other significance, as far as we Americans are concerned.

  Fourth, go fuck yourself.

  Fifth, go fuck yourself again.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/senate-gun-deal-framework/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool story, bro...


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## Gabe Lackmann (Jun 12, 2022)

The only thing secured through gun confiscation is government power.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> That meme is spot on.
> 
> Liberals can often be found both ridiculing the idea of AR15s as a means for civilians to defend themselves from an out-of-control government and also claiming dread fear of AR15s because they are "weapons of war."
> 
> ...


Liberals are correct to ridicule the notion that civilians are entitled to defend themselves from an ‘out-of-control’ government because there’s nothing in the history, text, or case law of he Second Amendment that authorizes insurrectionist dogma, regardless the weapon.

And AR 15s are indeed weapons of war – that AR 15s are useless in ‘overthrowing’ a government incorrectly perceived to have become ‘tyrannical’ doesn’t change that fact.


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## Rambunctious (Jun 12, 2022)

Elected Dems don't want to fix the problem... That's the first thing about guns and shootings you must learn...
Dems run on chaos so fixing problems is not a winning plan for them....


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## Hellbilly (Jun 12, 2022)

westwall said:


> Not when they ignore the problems and only try and disarm the populace.


That's not what they are doing.

Moron.


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## Tommy Tainant (Jun 12, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> First of all, you are not a member of either party.  You're not even an American.  You're a British piece of shit, who has no standing, and no say with regard to how we Americans run our country, and nearly everything that you think you know about our country is just plain wrong.
> 
> Second, the only ones that are made safer by denying law-abiding human beings the right to keep and bear arms are criminals, crazies, and tyrants.  Anyone who claims that this is being proposed to make human beings safer is lying, or deceived, or both.
> 
> ...


Because you know that you are too fucking stupid to debate with me. Or with a 4 year old child.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> So, not only ignorant and arrogant, but drunk, as well.
> 
> Perhaps you should worry about your own pathetic little shithole of a country, and just keep your filthy drunk faggot nose out of America's business, where it does not belong.


The typical hateful rightwing bigot and coward who has nothing of merit to contribute, save that of personal attacks and insults.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 12, 2022)

Rambunctious said:


> Elected Dems don't want to fix the problem... That's the first thing about guns and shootings you must learn...
> Dems run on chaos so fixing anything wrong is not a winning plan for them....


Are you a Dem? No? Then you have no clue.


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## Tommy Tainant (Jun 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Even if it passes it's still quite meaningless. Nothing short of dealing with the  violence that's been created by America's continuous wars and culture of killing, is going to lessen the mass shootings.
> 
> But that can never be accepted, on account of self-condemnation by Americans of themselves.


Its a start isnt it.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Even if it passes it's still quite meaningless. Nothing short of dealing with the  violence that's been created by America's continuous wars and culture of killing, is going to lessen the mass shootings.
> 
> But that can never be accepted, on account of self-condemnation by Americans of themselves.


Further proof that conservatives are lying – no guns will be ‘banned,’ no guns will be ‘confiscated.’


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## Rambunctious (Jun 12, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> Are you a Dem? No? Then you have no clue.


Have they fixed anything?... maybe you should get a clue.... Pelosi has a bipartisan bill passed by the senate protecting Justices and won't bring it to the floor....
Wake up man....


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## Rambunctious (Jun 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Further proof that conservatives are lying – no guns will be ‘banned,’ no guns will be ‘confiscated.’


Tell us how we would confiscate guns in America... talk is cheep lets here your plan....


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## BackAgain (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> Then you run into problems with who is determining what qualifies as "dangerous mentally ill".
> That's a slippery slope when they accuse anybody that refuses masks, clot shots or to believe lies about weather & elections being fraud free as being dangerous & mentally ill.
> I will never agree to have some lunatic lefty judge my capacity to exercise my rights.
> We want to stop these seriously deranged psychos from obtaining weapons & their mass shootings but you have to be real careful when the odds say they will use anything like this to disarm political opponents


I agree that it’s a matter of very real importance, which is why there need to be significant procedural safeguards out into place.  I usually tend to reject the slippery slope argument because if we’re aware of the dangers ahead of time, we can impose checks, backups, circuit breakers, guardrails and an automatic breaking system. 

Beyond that, I’m one of those who strongly desires to have such built in safeguards. I wouldn’t want someone who has had a psychiatric issue in his or her younger days to be denied a gun license or a permit on such a minimal basis. The standards should be as rock solid and clearly spelled out as possible and the review and appeal process should be scrupulous.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 12, 2022)

Rambunctious said:


> Wake up man....


Oh...your one of those 'woke' people....LOL


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## Concerned American (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/senate-gun-deal-framework/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuck off window licker.  You are not subject to the US constitution, so STFU.  We didn't rattle our zippers, so we don't need any lip from the likes of you.


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## Concerned American (Jun 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Even if it passes it's still quite meaningless. Nothing short of dealing with the  violence that's been created by America's continuous wars and culture of killing, is going to lessen the mass shootings.
> 
> But that can never be accepted, on account of self-condemnation by Americans of themselves.


GFY, duck.  You and the limey don't have any standing in the debate so just STFU.


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## Silent Warrior (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> Most Trump voters


LOL.  As the man you leftist idiots put into office rapidly destroys the US those afflicted with TDS like yourself continue to ignore real problems to yell "but Trump."  It would really be funny if it wasn't so tragic.


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## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

The NRA will not allow it

Republicans will back away at the last minute

They always do


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## HandleTheTruth (Jun 12, 2022)

Senators strike bipartisan gun safety agreement
					

The emerging framework is a major breakthrough in talks following back-to-back mass shootings. Negotiators' next challenge: writing legislation that can get 60 votes.




					www.politico.com
				






Just wait till the NRA starts saying they are trying to take away everybody's guns and scare the hell out of gun huggers again.


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## Leweman (Jun 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Further proof that conservatives are lying – no guns will be ‘banned,’ no guns will be ‘confiscated.’


Sounds good Hitler.


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## CrusaderFrank (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/12/senate-gun-deal-framework/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


....shall not be infringed


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## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

Silent Warrior said:


> LOL.  As the man you leftist idiots put into office rapidly destroys the US those afflicted with TDS like yourself continue to ignore real problems to yell "but Trump."  It would really be funny if it wasn't so tragic.



Some Trump voters will be allowed to keep their guns

To verify their mental health, they just need to answer one question

Who won the 2020 election?


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## johngaltshrugged (Jun 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Liberals are correct to ridicule the notion that civilians are entitled to defend themselves from an ‘out-of-control’ government because there’s nothing in the history, text, or case law of he Second Amendment that authorizes insurrectionist dogma, regardless the weapon.
> 
> And AR 15s are indeed weapons of war – *that AR 15s are useless in ‘overthrowing’ a government incorrectly perceived to have become ‘tyrannical’ doesn’t change that fact.*


That just shows you are totally ignorant of both history & the reasons for the 2A.
Our country was founded by a rebellion.

That second part tells me you are a typical leftist coward that would willingly surrender your freedom for any perceived safety they offered. Tell the Afghanis how useless & inferior their weapons were.
Not all of us are bed wetters like yourself


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## HandleTheTruth (Jun 12, 2022)

Mark my words the fear mongering will start in my view once the bill is written.


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## Sunsettommy (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> The NRA will not allow it
> 
> Republicans will back away at the last minute
> 
> They always do



Not to allow what?

I don't think you even know what the NRA stands on about this at all, I have read it and they are careful about the *distinction *between a mentally unstable person being an actual threat to the public or they are not.


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## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> Now allow what?


try to keep up with the thread


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## Sunsettommy (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> try to keep up with the thread



So, you can't answer the simple question and your ignorance of the NRA position on this continues.


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## McRib (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> That meme is spot on.
> 
> Liberals can often be found both ridiculing the idea of AR15s as a means for civilians to defend themselves from an out-of-control government and also claiming dread fear of AR15s because they are "weapons of war."


The meme is written in plain english, and yet you still are struggling to understand.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> gun grabber


This is a lie – there are no ‘gun grabbers.’

There are no efforts to ‘ban’ guns; no efforts to ‘confiscate’ guns.

This proposed legislation is proof of that.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The proposed deal in the Senate on violating the Rights of Americans.....at first look, it doesn't seem like the democrats got the anti-gun laws they wanted.....but we may actually address the problems of mass public shooters....something that also hurts the democrats...since mass public shootings, in particular, school shootings, are their Christmas day.....
> 
> *Intervention Orders*
> ●     Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.
> ...


Nonsense.

No one expected anything from these ‘negotiations.’

Everyone knew that Republicans were 'negotiating' in bad faith, that they were just looking for political cover for this November.


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## johngaltshrugged (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> Most Trump voters


Exactly. To people like you, the fact I voted for DT, 2x's, is enough to deny my Constitutional rights & declare me mentally ill for further "evaluation".
Since I have no intention of ever surrendering my rights to you or anyone else, the only options are you either back down or you try to take my rights by force. 
So now we are likely to have a physical confrontation that could easily turn deadly for those involved.
How does forcing a very violent confrontation with me, a law abiding citizen just trying to live his life, how does this help you end gun violence or mass shootings? It doesn't.
Trying to take guns will be the spark & it will be on people like you when it detonates.

Of course by "you", I mean a real man as I have zero doubt you would never have the balls to try anything like this yourself.


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## Donald H (Jun 12, 2022)

Mass shootings: America’s challenge for gun control explained in seven charts
					

Charts explaining some of the key statistics behind gun ownership and attacks linked to guns in the US.



					www.bbc.com
				




The BBC takes a look at America's culture of guns and gun murder


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Its a start isnt it.


Actually not.

In fact it’s a stop.

Again, Republicans entered into ‘negotiations’ in bad faith, seeking political cover from Buffalo and Uvalde, with no intent of enacting meaningful provisions that actually address gun crime and violence.

And when Republicans take control of Congress next year, the issue of gun crime and violence will be dead and forgotten by the right.


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## Donald H (Jun 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Mass shootings: America’s challenge for gun control explained in seven charts
> 
> 
> Charts explaining some of the key statistics behind gun ownership and attacks linked to guns in the US.
> ...


Relief from the tragic murdering of children is obviously not going to come from within America. Each mass shooting now appears to encourage another and another.

Americans might want to start looking closely at the countries that are handling their gun related problems the best.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jun 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> Mass shootings: America’s challenge for gun control explained in seven charts
> 
> 
> Charts explaining some of the key statistics behind gun ownership and attacks linked to guns in the US.
> ...



  Fuck the BBC.  It's a relic of the very same tyranny against which we Americans violently rebelled to secure our independence, sovereignty, and freedom.

  Being British, it has no standing with regard to anything to do with America.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

Silent Warrior said:


> LOL.  As the man you leftist idiots put into office rapidly destroys the US those afflicted with TDS like yourself continue to ignore real problems to yell "but Trump."  It would really be funny if it wasn't so tragic.


President Biden is working to clean up Trump’s mess; another Democratic president cleaning up yet another Republican mess.

And there’s no such thing as ‘TDS’ – not as long as Trump is the head of the GOP, endorses and attacks Republican candidates, and is himself running for president.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 12, 2022)

HandleTheTruth said:


> Mark my words the fear mongering will start in my view once the bill is written.


The fearmongering from the right has been going on for decades – Republicans lying about guns being ‘banned’ and ‘confiscated.’

Conservatives lied for eight years when President Obama was in office; and in those eight years not one gun was ‘banned,’ not one firearm ‘confiscated.’


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## Concerned American (Jun 12, 2022)

HandleTheTruth said:


> Senators strike bipartisan gun safety agreement
> 
> 
> The emerging framework is a major breakthrough in talks following back-to-back mass shootings. Negotiators' next challenge: writing legislation that can get 60 votes.
> ...


There's a real La La Land post.


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## Concerned American (Jun 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> President Biden is working to clean up Trump’s mess; another Democratic president cleaning up yet another Republican mess.
> 
> And there’s no such thing as ‘TDS’ – not as long as Trump is the head of the GOP, endorses and attacks Republican candidates, and is himself running for president.


What mess is that?  Border security?  Run away fuel prices?  Divided nation?  Rampant inflation?  Daily mass shootings?  Non stop scam investigations?  Scamdemic?  Ineffective vaccines?  Illegal gov't mandates?  Baby formula shortages?  Empty grocery shelves?  Economy in shambles?  Wake up moron.


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## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> Exactly. To people like you, the fact I voted for DT, 2x's, is enough to deny my Constitutional rights & declare me mentally ill for further "evaluation".
> Since I have no intention of ever surrendering my rights to you or anyone else, the only options are you either back down or you try to take my rights by force.
> So now we are likely to have a physical confrontation that could easily turn deadly for those involved.
> How does forcing a very violent confrontation with me, a law abiding citizen just trying to live his life, how does this help you end gun violence or mass shootings? It doesn't.
> ...



Simple enough

Just answer one question……Who won the 2020 election?


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## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

Senate announces bipartisan framework for gun control package









						Senate announces bipartisan framework for gun control package
					

A bipartisan group of senators announced an agreement for gun control following the devastating Uvalde shooting in Texas. The senators include John Cornyn and Kyrsten Sinema.




					www.foxnews.com
				




Nothing I see in here I can't live with...so far...


"The proposal includes initiatives to support state crisis intervention orders; a national expansion of mental health services for children and families; expanding mental health programs in schools; enhanced review process for gun buyers under the age of 21; penalties for straw purchases; additional funding for school resource officers. "


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 12, 2022)

Fine with me. Let’s see if it passes the Senate.


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## Delldude (Jun 12, 2022)

Notice it all defers to the states purview?


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## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> Fine with me. Let’s see if it passes the Senate.


Let's see if it passes the House...

There is very little gun control in this "gun control" bill from what I am seeing.  It should be called a mental health bill.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 12, 2022)

mental health in schools???? is that code for more tranny recruiting


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## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Notice it all defers to the states purview?


That works for me.


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## White 6 (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Senate announces bipartisan framework for gun control package
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Still kind of nebulous until we see the bill, submitted to the record and referred to committee.  I would "enhance" the under 21 review on AR purchase to preclude it until 21, just like gun store requirements for handguns.


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## 1srelluc (Jun 12, 2022)

_The proposal includes initiatives to support *state crisis intervention orders.*_

That's just code for Red Flag Laws.....I have to see what the adjudication part looks like. Who has the say about the taking of a person's weapons? 

A mental heath professional in conjunction with a court proceeding sure, some social worker or cop going on their gut in front of a magistrate.....No fuckin' way.


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## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Liberals are correct to ridicule the notion that civilians are entitled to defend themselves from an ‘out-of-control’ government because there’s nothing in the history, text, or case law of he Second Amendment that authorizes insurrectionist dogma, regardless the weapon.
> 
> And AR 15s are indeed weapons of war – that AR 15s are useless in ‘overthrowing’ a government incorrectly perceived to have become ‘tyrannical’ doesn’t change that fact.


That doublespeak proves that you are a goodthinker, comrade.


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

From NPR, which does not charge for information, being government funded:

*The proposal, which has not been written into legislative text, includes money to encourage states to pass and implement so-called "red flag" laws to remove guns from potentially dangerous people, money for school safety and mental health resources, expanded background checks for gun purchases for people between the ages of 18 and 21 and penalties for illegal straw purchases by convicted criminals.*

What a surprise!  The bipartisan bill is nothing more than a spending boondogle that will accomplish nothing.  Always a winner with both Red and Blue politicians.









						Bipartisan group of senators announces deal for school safety and gun measures
					

The agreement, which has the support of at least 10 Republican senators, is narrowly focused at preventing future shootings similar to the one in Uvalde, Texas.




					www.npr.org
				




BTW, this:  

*The proposal, which has not been written into legislative text,*

means that they want to hype it up now, but will add plenty of pork before final passage, now that followers of the Twoparties have taken the bait and will support it no matter what.


----------



## night_son (Jun 12, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Notice it all defers to the states purview?



This is the new official way of seizing individual freedoms as seen during the implementation of COVID lockdowns and restrictions. Compartmentalize down to local government action and conquer . . .


----------



## johngaltshrugged (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> Simple enough
> 
> Just answer one question……Who won the 2020 election?


If you're asking if I think dementia man was illegitimately installed after a massive & multi faceted fraud of an election that was both blatant & poorly planned, then the answer is:
Absolutely, Pedo Joe is an illegal & treasonous fraud in a dirty diaper with no real power since he is a simple minded meat puppet for his masters.
One question back....Do you feel this constitutes grounds for declaring me mentally unstable & unfit to own or bear arms as protected by the 2A?


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

johngaltshrugged said:


> If you're asking if I think dementia man was illegitimately installed after a massive & multi faceted fraud of an election that was both blatant & poorly planned, then the answer is:
> Absolutely, Pedo Joe is an illegal & treasonous fraud in a dirty diaper with no real power since he is a simple minded meat puppet for his masters.
> One question back....Do you feel this constitutes grounds for declaring me mentally unstable & unfit to own or bear arms as protected by the 2A?



No Guns For You!
Next!


----------



## mudwhistle (Jun 12, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Notice it all defers to the states purview?


That means the states will just make it up as they go.


----------



## XponentialChaos (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Let's see if it passes the House...
> 
> There is very little gun control in this "gun control" bill from what I am seeing.  It should be called a mental health bill.


I believe it would need to get through the Senate first.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

This is the rundown on the " initiatives to support state crisis intervention orders"...

"The proposal would provide resources to states and Native American tribes to create and administer "red flag" measures intended to ensure weapons are kept out of the hands of people whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others. These measures would be consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections"









						Factbox: What's in and what's out of the Senate's gun-safety plan
					

A bipartisan group of U.S. senators said on Sunday they had reached an agreement on a framework for gun safety legislation, potentially the first significant new U.S. gun law in decades, following a string of recent high-profile mass shootings.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> I believe it would need to get through the Senate first.


If I can't find anything to bitch about...I doubt it's going to have trouble in the Senate.

It doesn't ban any guns or magazines.

It doesn't expand background checks.

It doesn't create a federal Red Flag Law.

It doesn't repeal the immunity from frivolous laws suits of gun manufacturers.

It DOES enhance penalties for straw purchases.

It DOES expand mental health initiatives.

It DOES expand armed school resource officer funding.

All the things we've been advocating for YEARS.

All I'm seeing is one compromise...the enhanced investigations of 18, 19 and 20 year old firearm purchasers.

I'm not thrilled about that...but that is better than them losing their rights altogether...so...a compromise.

The gun control advocates are getting almost none of what they were demanding.  They're the ones that will need convincing.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

White 6 said:


> Still kind of nebulous until we see the bill, submitted to the record and referred to committee.  I would "enhance" the under 21 review on AR purchase to preclude it until 21, just like gun store requirements for handguns.


I know.

Advocate for that law in Tennessee at the state level.

Good luck.  Let me know how it turns out.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> That works for me.


Don't be gullible.


----------



## westwall (Jun 12, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> That's not what they are doing.
> 
> Moron.





Yeah, it is dumbfuck.  If you were native american,  as you claim, there is no way you would support ANY type of gun control.

My people have suffered the effects of gun control more than any other on this continent.


----------



## night_son (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> If I can't find anything to bitch about...I doubt it's going to have trouble in the Senate.
> 
> It doesn't ban any guns or magazines.
> 
> ...



There can be no compromise on our Second Amendment rights.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

mudwhistle said:


> Don't be gullible.


2aguy has the same take independently...

Going to have this thread rolled into that one...






						Prepare for gun grabber tears.... Senate anti-gun proposals don't seem to give them what they wanted.....good....I hope it stays that way...
					

The proposed deal in the Senate on violating the Rights of Americans.....at first look, it doesn't seem like the democrats got the anti-gun laws they wanted.....but we may actually address the problems of mass public shooters....something that also hurts the democrats...since mass public...



					www.usmessageboard.com


----------



## johngaltshrugged (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> No Guns For You!
> Next!


LOL And you don't think that would cause some problems?
C'mon man, that is not gonna stop gun violence & you're at least smart enough to know that


----------



## XponentialChaos (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> If I can't find anything to bitch about...I doubt it's going to have trouble in the Senate.
> 
> It doesn't ban any guns or magazines.
> 
> ...


I hope you’re right.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> *Investment in Children and Family Mental Health Services*
> ●     National expansion of community behavioral health center model; major investments to increase access to mental health and suicide prevention programs; and other support services available in the community, including crisis and trauma intervention and recovery.



This sounds GREAT!  It's going to cost a goodly amount of money but so long as you guys who like guns are willing to pay a bit extra it might help a LOT.  



2aguy said:


> *Protections for Victims of Domestic Violence*
> ●     Convicted domestic violence abusers and individuals subject to domestic violence restraining orders are included in NICS, including those who have or have had a continuing relationship of a romantic or intimate nature.



Excellent



2aguy said:


> *Funding for School-Based Mental Health and Supportive Services*
> ●     Invests in programs to expand mental health and supportive services in schools, including: early identification and intervention programs and school based mental health and wrap-around services.



Another good idea!



2aguy said:


> *Funding for School Safety Resources*
> ●     Invests in programs to help institute safety measures in and around primary and secondary schools, support school violence prevention efforts and provide training to school personnel and students.



Well, given what happened in Parkland and Uvalde I don't think that's actually been shown to be particularly effective.  But hey, if you guys who have kids in the schools want to pay for it, knock yerselves out.  I already pay for your crotch-fruit's schooling and I don't have any kids and never will, so if you don't mind I'll sit out the cost on this one since it's not technically my problem.



2aguy said:


> *Clarification of Definition of Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer*
> ●     Cracks down on criminals who illegally evade licensing requirements.



Good.



2aguy said:


> *Telehealth Investments*
> ●     Invests in programs that increase access to mental and behavioral health services for youth and families in crisis via telehealth.




This is basically noise at this point.  Telehealth is a great system and can easily offset its own costs.  But getting help to more people is always a good thing.



2aguy said:


> *Under 21 Enhanced Review Process*
> ●     For buyers under 21 years of age, requires an investigative period to review juvenile and mental health records, including checks with state databases and local law enforcement.



Why just "under 21 years"?  Let's review the mental health records and databases for ALL gun purchasers.  (I assume that is already part of the gun purchase but if not it should be.)



2aguy said:


> *Penalties for Straw Purchasing*
> ● Cracks down on criminals who illegally straw purchase and traffic guns.



That's going to be tough on Kyle Rittenhouse's friend who did the straw purchase for his murder rampage..oh, I mean, "justice dealing"


----------



## Sunsettommy (Jun 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Further proof that conservatives are lying – no guns will be ‘banned,’ no guns will be ‘confiscated.’



There is a lot of talk about banning the AR-15 from leftists.


----------



## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Senate announces bipartisan framework for gun control package


Let me try to avoid coughing up my drink through my nose as I laugh my ass off.



Missourian said:


> The proposal includes initiatives to support state crisis intervention orders; a national expansion of mental health services for children and families; expanding mental health programs in schools; enhanced review process for gun buyers under the age of 21; penalties for straw purchases; additional funding for school resource officers.




  So much meaningless blather.  Fools doing squat just to make themselves look like they are really doing something.  None of that crap will do a thing but eat up more tax revenue and the shootings will continue because they haven't the stones to admit the real cause of school shootings!  It's the fucking crappy, psycho, gov-run schools!

Want proof?  These shooting sprees just don't happen much outside of progressive, public schools employing gun-free zones.  Take away the progressiveness, make it a private school, take away the gun-free zone or any combination of the above and suddenly, 94% of all the school gun crime GOES AWAY.

These idiots simply REFUSE to protect these children because they would have to admit by arming some of the school staff that guns used properly are an effective means to saving lives that we cannot do without!  Because, what they are REALLY after is just to ban ALL gun ownership from private hands regardless of its impact on crime because they DON'T. WANT. YOU. BEING. ABLE. TO. FIGHT. BACK.

Defenseless people are easy to control.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie.
> 
> The proposed measure has no provisions for regulating firearms.


So ... you are saying this is in fact not a gun control bill.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> That meme is spot on.
> 
> Liberals can often be found both ridiculing the idea of AR15s as a means for civilians to defend themselves from an out-of-control government and also claiming dread fear of AR15s because they are "weapons of war."



Ummm,  no, actually.  It's the gun advocates who CONSTANTLY remind us that the AR-15 is little more than a fancy dressed up semi-auto no different from normal looking semi-auto hunting rifles.

So, personally, I have integrated that into my position.  If AR-15's are no worse than regular guns and we want to ban AR-15's....well, I think you can draw your own conclusion.  I mean *it's the point of the gun owners themselves*.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Sunsettommy said:


> There is a lot of talk about banning the AR-15 from leftists.



It's mostly hot air just to scare you little gentle flowers.  It's fun to watch you guys waste all your money buying up guns everytime a Dem gets elected.  The only downside is some who collect a lot of guns aren't as "stable" as you are so bad things happen.

But, in reality, we are realists and we know all guns will not be made illegal or grabbed from you.  You MIGHT have a few more rules you have to live with (registries, expanded background checks...nothing you yourself wouldn't like to see for every member of BLM or Antifa, so it's all good).


----------



## Flash (Jun 12, 2022)

Every American is getting hammered on inflation and these sorry assholes have time to discuss useless gun restrictions?  They can fuck off.


----------



## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> So you dont like both parties working on a solution to school massacres ? You are part of the problem mormon bob.



Don't make us laugh, Timmy.  There is no "solution" being worked on here, merely a bunch of feckless politicians trying to do something that will prove 99% ineffective to appease public pressure that they LOOK like they are actually doing something!

The irony of it all is that government is powerless to change human behavior, it isn't up to them to try to change something they cannot, it is up to PEOPLE to change themselves back into the healthy moral society that leftwing progs have THROWN AWAY.


----------



## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2022)

mudwhistle said:


> Don't be gullible.



Sure.  Because after they pass this load of steaming crap and it doesn't work and nothing much changes, obviously, the next step will be to dig in deeper into our gun rights!  Then again, and again, not willing to admit they are not addressing the root cause, instead, will simply maintain that they simply have not yet done ENOUGH, and need to do more, and more, and more.

That enough won't come until the 2A is dust.

And school violence and gun crime will STILL be in effect more so than ever because they are not willing to address the real cause:  moral turpitude from an overly progressive, amoral society.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> Some Trump voters will be allowed to keep their guns
> 
> To verify their mental health, they just need to answer one question
> 
> Who won the 2020 election?


What is "Not Joe Biden."? .... I'll take current world leaders with dementia for a thousand, Alex.


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Ummm,  no, actually.  It's the gun advocates who CONSTANTLY remind us that the AR-15 is little more than a fancy dressed up semi-auto no different from normal looking semi-auto hunting rifles.


In function that is true.  Unless you know of a substantive difference?


Cardinal Carminative said:


> So, personally, I have integrated that into my position.  If AR-15's are no worse than regular guns and we want to ban AR-15's....well, I think you can draw your own conclusion.  I mean *it's the point of the gun owners themselves*.


Ah, I see your mistake.  Happy to explain it to you.

Not I, nor anyone else that I know of, says that "AR-15's are no worse than regular guns."  There is no "regular gun." 

AR-15's are actually _better_ than hunting rifles in many respects.  To wit:  Their pistol grips make them easier to control when engaging multiple targets in a short time.  Their sights are more quickly aimed at multiple short-range targets than a hunting scope meant for slow moving game far away.  Their high-capacity, easily detachable magazine, means that a person defending their home against a government turned fascist can sustain suppression fire long enough for back up to arrive and flank the storm troopers with their own AR-15's. 

Here is a diagram so you see what I mean:





Notice also the telescoping butt, and relatively short length compared to a hunting rifle.  This allows it to be carried comfortably and to be wielded easily in a confined hiding spot. 

If only the Europeans who were massacred by socialists of different stripes in the middle of the 20th century had had such tools at their disposal.  Imagine a squad of German Einsattsgruppe or Soviet GRU pounding on the door of a synagogue only to be met with suppression fire from the obliques then subjected to a withering crossfire from the nearby woods.  The AR15 is capable of short and medium range fire and can be adapted to relatively longer range fire.

Sorry, what was your point again?


----------



## mudwhistle (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> What is "Not Joe Biden."? .... I'll take current world leaders with dementia for a thousand, Alex.


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> What is "Not Joe Biden."? .... I'll take current world leaders with dementia for a thousand, Alex.



No guns for you
Who is next?


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> AR-15's are actually _better_ than hunting rifles in many respects. To wit: Their pistol grips make them easier to control when engaging multiple targets in a short time. Their sights are more quickly aimed at multiple short-range targets than a hunting scope meant for slow moving game far away. Their high-capacity, easily detachable magazine, means that a person defending their home against a government turned fascist can sustain suppression fire long enough for back up to arrive and flank the storm troopers with their own AR-15's.


They are also superior when hunting down shoppers and 10 year olds


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> In function that is true.  Unless you know of a substantive difference?
> 
> Ah, I see your mistake.  Happy to explain it to you.
> 
> ...



... and most importantly... It's modular nature makes it extraordinarily easy to repair at home with simple tools.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> No guns for you
> Who is next?


When you going to be by to pick them up?

I certainly wouldn't want to miss you.


----------



## Flash (Jun 12, 2022)

There is nothing in the reported items that is disastrous, like a ban or confiscation.

However, the red flag bullshit and making it more difficult for 18, 19 and 20 year olds are more nails in the coffin of Liberty.  The rest of the shit is nothing more than window dressing.

Plus, that is just emboldening the assholes in Congress to do more next time.

The Republicans should have just told the filthy Democrats to fuck off.  But they don't have the courage to do the right thing.  Republicans are just as worthless as Democrats far too many times.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's fun to watch you guys waste all your money buying up guns everytime a Dem gets elected


Waste money buying guns?  It's a better investment than gold.

I'm still kicking myself for passing on a case of Mosin Nagants at $139 apiece.


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> They are also superior when hunting down shoppers and 10 year olds


Not sure that is true, but cars and handguns are much more frequently used to murder children, than any kind of rifle.  

What is your position on banning both?


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> When you going to be by to pick them up?
> 
> I certainly wouldn't want to miss you.



Oh NOoooo! 

Internet tough guy


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Waste money buying guns?  It's a better investment than gold.
> 
> I'm still kicking myself for passing on a case of Mosin Nagants at $139 apiece.
> 
> View attachment 657089


About ten years ago (maybe longer), I saw a whole barrel of them for $99 at a store called Carter Country.  I also could have bought some WASR-10's for less than $500 each from Collectors Firearms.  

I guess it is wisest to invest on the assumption that things will either get worse and guns and ammo will be the currency, or get better and opportunities will abound.


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> Not sure that is true, but cars and handguns are much more frequently used to murder children, than any kind of rifle.
> 
> What is your position on banning both?


Cars serve a purpose in our society 

But if you insist on banning handguns, I am willing to listen


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Waste money buying guns?  It's a better investment than gold.
> 
> I'm still kicking myself for passing on a case of Mosin Nagants at $139 apiece.
> 
> View attachment 657089



I am never disappointed by gun people taking every opportunity to show off the guns they love.

It's actually kind of cool.  I am not saying this snarkily.  Obviously you guys love your guns.  I get it.  Guns are really neat pieces of equipment.  (My thing is "vintage scientific calculators").  But I honestly see it.

I think, however, that it does show an aspect to "gun culture" in America now that we have found a way to treat the collection of DEADLY INSTRUMENTS CREATED SPECIFICALLY IN MOST CASES TO KILL OR MAIM LIVING THINGS the same as collection of STAR WARS FIGURES.

Maybe that's the heart of our problem?  We have too many guns and many are in the hands of people who's childlike wonder at toys extends to machines capable of killing people.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> Not sure that is true, but cars and handguns are much more frequently used to murder children, than any kind of rifle.
> 
> What is your position on banning both?



Let's hear more about the statistics of cars being used to kill kids.  Does that include auto accidents where kids die or does it ONLY include cases where someone decided that they wanted to kill a child so they bought a car for the express purpose of doing so...because I'm willing to bet that the latter *almost never happens*.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> Oh NOoooo!
> 
> Internet tough guy


Sooo... That's a "don't wait up"?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> Oh NOoooo!
> 
> Internet tough guy



I think it goes hand-in-hand with how many American gun owners imagine themselves.  They are super-duper tough and you do NOT want to mess with them.  It's the same thoughts many children have as they imagine themselves to be Captain America in an Ironman suit.  It would be nice if those kinds of fantasies ended at puberty.


----------



## rightwinger (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> Sooo... That's a "don't wait up"?


I don’t need guns like a big pussy like you

I could kick your girly ass with a big stick with a nail on it


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> Cars serve a purpose in our society
> 
> But if you insist on banning handguns, I am willing to listen


Guns serve an equally important function in our society, and unlike cars, they are constitutionally protected.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I am never disappointed by gun people taking every opportunity to show off the guns they love.
> 
> It's actually kind of cool.  I am not saying this snarkily.  Obviously you guys love your guns.  I get it.  Guns are really neat pieces of equipment.  (My thing is "vintage scientific calculators").  But I honestly see it.
> 
> ...


No...I'm not a Mosin guy.

I collect single shot break action H&R and NEF hunting rifles, black powder rifles and shotguns.

And I use them.

Not one is out of the hunting rotation.

They are utilitarian simplicity meets absolute efficiency.

But that's just me.

There is no doubt that there are many firearms out there that are works of technological art.

Not just the art of the woodwork or engraving... But the mechanical engineering that men without industrial tools beat and filed into shape.

And here is the part that's really going to frost your noggin.  Weapons make man.

We didn't have claws,  or carnivore teeth or hulking muscles or incredible speed.

What we had was the ability to make weapons that leveled the playing field.


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Let's hear more about the statistics of cars being used to kill kids.  Does that include auto accidents where kids die or does it ONLY include cases where someone decided that they wanted to kill a child so they bought a car for the express purpose of doing so...because I'm willing to bet that the latter *almost never happens*.


It almost *never happens* that a person buys a gun for the immediate purpose of killing someone.  Only a crazy person would do that since it would immediately draw suspicion.  That's why I'm all for crazy people control.  

I was actually thinking of drive-by shootings.  But, you're right.  If we included vehicle accidents the child death toll is far greater than from shootings.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> I don’t need guns like a big pussy like you
> 
> I could kick your girly ass with a big stick with a nail on it


I don't believe you.

I don't think you have the capacity to overcome the stick...much less drive the nail.

My guess is you're winded just from typing that angry reply.

I don't think you need a gun.  You are easily goaded into violence.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> It almost *never happens* that a person buys a gun for the immediate purpose of killing someone.



Isn't that exactly what someone means when they say "I want a gun for self defense"?




Seymour Flops said:


> Only a crazy person would do that since it would immediately draw suspicion.  That's why I'm all for crazy people control.



I have family members who have struggled with mental illness...it is good to know you care so deeply about the "crazy".  




Seymour Flops said:


> I was actually thinking of drive-by shootings.  But, you're right.  If we included vehicle accidents the child death toll is far greater than from shootings.



I know it is inappropriate in the CDZ to laugh at that last bit, but I did.  Thank you for the laugh but I also feel kind of sorry for you for having even typed it out.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Missourian said:


> And here is the part that's really going to frost your noggin.  Weapons make man.



Well, indeed, I am aching to have my noggin frosted and this is coming very close!  At the very least "mildly chilled my noggin".  But that's a good effort.



Missourian said:


> We didn't have claws,  or carnivore teeth or hulking muscles or incredible speed.



And god knows we didn't "thrive" for the roughly 199,850 years prior to the gun's invention!!

(Don't worry...I actually get your point.  We are tool users.  So are some chimpanzees and crows.  But I get your point and can't really argue that we succeed because of our brains' ability to create a "force multiplier" for our otherwise weak physiques.


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Isn't that exactly what someone means when they say "I want a gun for self defense"?


Good point.  I should have said "murdering someone," or some such.  Actually, semi-good point, because I said the "immediate purpose," not a what-if contingency like self-defense.


Cardinal Carminative said:


> I have family members who have struggled with mental illness...it is good to know you care so deeply about the "crazy".


I'll ask your leeway to use colloquial language when discussing issues on a political forum.

I'm a special education teacher who works with mentally ill students every single day.  I also have a veteran son struggling with depression exacerbated by PTSD living at home with me.  

That doesn't mean that I want give up my ability to protect myself and my family so that mentally ill people can be prevented from having them.  Not least of which because such laws will only annoy the law-abiding and do nothing to slow down crime.


Cardinal Carminative said:


> I know it is inappropriate in the CDZ to laugh at that last bit, but I did.  Thank you for the laugh but I also feel kind of sorry for you for having even typed it out.


You mean this from my post?



> I was actually thinking of drive-by shootings. But, you're right. If we included vehicle accidents the child death toll is far greater than from shootings.


I'm not sure the humor in the deaths of children, but to each his their own.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> Good point.  I should have said "murdering someone," or some such.  Actually, semi-good point, because I said the "immediate purpose," not a what-if contingency like self-defense.
> 
> I'll ask your leeway to use colloquial language when discussing issues on a political forum.
> 
> ...



Nah, just the fact that you somehow took a GUN CRIME and made it into a "death by automobile" crime.  It's funny but also quite sick.  Funny because it's incomprehensible how anyone could SERIOUSLY suggest that without it being an attempt at humor.  Sick because it's sick how in love with guns we are in America.  So much so that even gun crimes must be re-classified to _protect the gun_.


----------



## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative 

You never heard that expression "frost your noggin"?

I suppose it might be regional or something I heard when I was younger and has since fallen out if favor.

I comes from a anecdotal tale of a man apprehended stealing a frozen chicken under his hat after the shock of the cold on his head caused him to pass out on his way out of the store...





__





						The Frost Is On the Noggin
					

The writer asks retired fly cop Dashiell Hammett if, in his experience as a sleuth, a person under suspicion was ever conscious of being shadowed. Hammett …




					www.newyorker.com


----------



## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Nah, just the fact that you somehow took a GUN CRIME and made it into a "death by automobile" crime.  It's funny but also quite sick.  Funny because it's incomprehensible how anyone could SERIOUSLY suggest that without it being an attempt at humor.  Sick because it's sick how in love with guns we are in America.  So much so that even gun crimes must be re-classified to _protect the gun_.


My specific quote was "cars and handguns," which is what is involved in many of the drive-by shootings that kill children.  Please debate what I actually said, it gets old having to go and re-look every time. 

I have no intention of re-classifying anything.  The over-whelming majority of such child murders are committed by people who have already been locked up for a violent felony, but of course, released by our compassionate (to everyone but victims) justice system.  No need to wonder why it keeps happening nor superstitiously blame inanimate objects.

Tack on an extra forty years for any crime committed with a gun?  I'll sign off on that.  Sounds like a prudent measure to control GUN CRIME.  Let me guess?  You would not support that?


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## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)

I expected gun control activists to be more up in arms over this mental health bill.  The actual gun control in the bill is nearly non-existent.

On the other hand, it's kinda nice to be in agreement for a change...

... it's been so long it feels weird...


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

Seymour Flops said:


> My specific quote was "cars and handguns," which is what is involved in many of the drive-by shootings that kill children.  Please debate what I actually said, it gets old having to go and re-look every time.



My apologies.  I was in the wrong.


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## 2aguy (Jun 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> This sounds GREAT!  It's going to cost a goodly amount of money but so long as you guys who like guns are willing to pay a bit extra it might help a LOT.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Parkland had one resource officer for about 12 buildings on the campus...and he refused to confront the shooter....Uvalde, being an elementary school, didn't have a resource officer and the police refused follow their training and also did not enter the building....


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## Seymour Flops (Jun 12, 2022)

rightwinger said:


> No guns for you
> Who is next?


The answer is clear.  _*You*_ would be next, rightwinger.

That's what you need to consider when you decide to deprive a law-abiding citizen of a right to something that you don't care for.  You and whatever it is that you do care for may well be next, and who will take up for you, the law-abiding citizens being disarmed to make you feel safe?


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## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)




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## Missourian (Jun 12, 2022)




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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Parkland had one resource officer for about 12 buildings on the campus...and he refused to confront the shooter....Uvalde, being an elementary school, didn't have a resource officer and the police refused follow their training and also did not enter the building....



I understand that YOU want America to become a post-apocalyptic hellscape of warlords dueling it out on every street, but I don't share your dream for my country.


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## Delldude (Jun 12, 2022)

night_son said:


> This is the new official way of seizing individual freedoms as seen during the implementation of COVID lockdowns and restrictions. Compartmentalize down to local government action and conquer . . .



You are wrong.....the constitution, in the tenth amendment explains it...


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## Delldude (Jun 12, 2022)

mudwhistle said:


> That means the states will just make it up as they go.



That is/was the intent of the 10th amendment.....don't like it, elect a king to decide for you.


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## mudwhistle (Jun 12, 2022)

Delldude said:


> That is/was the intent of the 10th amendment.....don't like it, elect a king to decide for you.


Congress doesn't want to let go of an issue like gun-legislation.....all they have to do is groom another shooter and that will keep them going for another couple of months.


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## Delldude (Jun 12, 2022)

mudwhistle said:


> Congress doesn't want to let go of an issue like gun-legislation.....all they have to do is groom another shooter and that will keep them going for another couple of months.



Doesn't matter.....they have limited power over the states.


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 13, 2022)

Looks like we’re actually in agreement on this?


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## Delldude (Jun 13, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> Looks like we’re actually in agreement on this?


On what?


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> On what?


This gun bill.


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## Delldude (Jun 13, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> This gun bill.


You like the Red Flag portion?


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> You like the Red Flag portion?


I’m good with all of it.  I think it’s progress.


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## 2aguy (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> You like the Red Flag portion?



The democrats have shown is they will weaponise any Red Flag laws


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## Delldude (Jun 13, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> I’m good with all of it.  I think it’s progress.


You have to wonder why members of both houses would support a law like this.


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> You have to wonder why members of both houses would support a law like this.


Seems like you’re the one who doesn’t like it. Seems reasonable to me.


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## Flash (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> You like the Red Flag portion?


Absolutely not!  The filthy Liberals are hell bent on destroying due process and that sucks.

Also, the enhanced background checks for 18, 19 and 20 year olds sucks.

However:

No AR bans

No magazine bans

No universal background checks


The Libtards took away some of our Liberty but nothing to rally the American people for a million armed man march on DC, yet.


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## Delldude (Jun 13, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> Seems like you’re the one who doesn’t like it. Seems reasonable to me.


Someone, possibly who doesn't like you, make claims against you which end up in a court of law, judge orders your guns seized......and now you have to spend money to fight to get your guns back.


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Someone, possibly who doesn't like you, make claims against you which end up in a court of law, judge orders your guns seized......and now you have to spend money to fight to get your guns back.


Your fellow Republicans disagree with you.


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## Delldude (Jun 13, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> Your fellow Republicans disagree with you.



Why would they support a blatant violation of the 4th amendment search and seizures wording?

No due process.


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Why would they support a blatant violation of the 4th amendment search and seizures wording?
> 
> No due process.


Go ask them.  Even your fellow conservatives on here are ok with all of this.


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## Delldude (Jun 13, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> Go ask them.  Even your fellow conservatives on here are ok with all of this.


As are all your dems.

Do you think any of them are aware this issue was shot down as being blatantly unconstitutional by SCOTUS in a 9-0 ruling?


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 13, 2022)

Delldude said:


> As are all your dems.
> 
> Do you think any of them are aware this issue was shot down as being blatantly unconstitutional by SCOTUS in a 9-0 ruling?


We’ll see.


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## TemplarKormac (Jun 14, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The proposed deal in the Senate on violating the Rights of Americans.....at first look, it doesn't seem like the democrats got the anti-gun laws they wanted.....but we may actually address the problems of mass public shooters....something that also hurts the democrats...since mass public shootings, in particular, school shootings, are their Christmas day.....
> 
> *Intervention Orders*
> ●     Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.
> ...


Wait, this is actually a good thing. For America.

Screw what party this is good or bad for.


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## Delldude (Jun 14, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> We’ll see.


Warrantless seizures are constitutional?


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Warrantless seizures are constitutional?


Ask your fellow Republicans who agreed to this and your fellow conservatives who have no problem with this.


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## M14 Shooter (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Someone, possibly who doesn't like you, make claims against you which end up in a court of law, judge orders your guns seized......and now you have to spend money to fight to get your guns back.


^^^^
An anti-gun loon's wettest dream.


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## Mac-7 (Jun 14, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The proposed deal in the Senate on violating the Rights of Americans.....at first look, it doesn't seem like the democrats got the anti-gun laws they wanted.....but we may actually address the problems of mass public shooters....something that also hurts the democrats...since mass public shootings, in particular, school shootings, are their Christmas day.....
> 
> *Intervention Orders*
> ●     Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.
> ...


Reports are that the red flag scam is part of the deal

If so that gives libs backdoor gun grabbing


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## Delldude (Jun 14, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> Ask your fellow Republicans who agreed to this and your fellow conservatives who have no problem with this.


Not my issue....only the unconstitutional aspect. You don't think the supporters of this, on both sides of the aisle know this too? I'd say, using uniformed voters as patsies, it looks like they're doing something.

I can't speak for my 'fellow' conservatives on this, is saw you didn't have an issue with it either.

I thought you said you aren't partisan?


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Not my issue....only the unconstitutional aspect. You don't think the supporters of this, on both sides of the aisle know this too? I'd say, using uniformed voters as patsies, it looks like they're doing something.
> 
> I can't speak for my 'fellow' conservatives on this, is saw you didn't have an issue with it either.
> 
> I thought you said you aren't partisan?


I’m fine with this bipartisan agreement. Go whine at your fellow conservatives if you don’t like it.


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## Delldude (Jun 14, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> I’m fine with this bipartisan agreement. Go whine at your fellow conservatives if you don’t like it.


So you're fine with warrantless searches and seizures, in clear violation with and having already been found unconstitutional by a 9-0 ruling by SCOTUS?

I see, suddenly, your 'I'm not partisan' BS rears its ugly head.


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> So you're fine with warrantless searches and seizures, in clear violation with and having already been found unconstitutional by a 9-0 ruling by SCOTUS?
> 
> I see, suddenly, your 'I'm not partisan' BS rears its ugly head.


You’re calling me partisan for agreeing with a bipartisan agreement?


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## Delldude (Jun 14, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> You’re calling me partisan for agreeing with a bipartisan agreement?


Changing the subject already, eh?


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Changing the subject already, eh?


Dumb argument.


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## Delldude (Jun 14, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> You’re calling me partisan for agreeing with a bipartisan agreement?


Your posts revealed your bias....LOL


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> Your posts revealed your bias....LOL


Right. I’m biased for supporting a bipartisan agreement.


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## Delldude (Jun 14, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> Right. I’m biased for supporting a bipartisan agreement.


No, comments regarding the other side......LOL


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> No, comments regarding the other side......LOL


?

Do you even know what you’re whining about?


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## Delldude (Jun 14, 2022)

XponentialChaos said:


> ?
> 
> Do you even know what you’re whining about?


I see you can't fathom what you said.

Sticking with the red herring dinner, eh?


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## XponentialChaos (Jun 14, 2022)

Delldude said:


> I see you can't fathom what you said.
> 
> Sticking with the red herring dinner, eh?


K.


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