# The Democratic Convention is Just Plain Weak So Far



## William Joyce (Aug 27, 2008)

I'm channeling pundits a little here, but my personal observation is that the speeches thus far have been WEAK SAUCE indeed.

There's such a wealth of stuff to attack, like the disaster in Iraq, the economy, you name it.  But mostly what the Democrats giving speeches are yammering about is...

healthcare.

Yawn.

That was Teddy's thing.  It was Hillary's, too.

And am I totally uninspired.

HEALTHCARE?

Also, the jokers the camera keeps flashing to, like Susan Sarandon, Spike Lee and Al Franken, are NOT very inspiring, either.  This is the crowd we want to hand over the keys to?


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## AllieBaba (Aug 27, 2008)

And Shaq, who said he's going to run for Gov. of Alabama and pres someday.

I personally think he looked a little....inebriated, but one never knows. He used to say he was a Republican. That was before Obama. Now he's an Independent, but one who just wants a black guy to get the presidency.


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## Red Dawn (Aug 27, 2008)

This convention is pretty weak.  I kind of liked Hillary's and Michelle Obama's speeches.  The rest have been snoozers.


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## Ravi (Aug 27, 2008)

Convention?


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## Ninja (Aug 27, 2008)

Trainwreck television.


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## Ravi (Aug 27, 2008)

Well, we always have the RNC con to look forward to...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


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## Glori.B (Aug 27, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Convention?


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## Toro (Aug 27, 2008)

The Clinton's have hit it out of the ballpark.


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## chapstic (Aug 27, 2008)

Toro said:


> The Clinton's have hit it out of the ballpark.



for themselves.


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## Glori.B (Aug 27, 2008)

chapstic said:


> for themselves.



how so?


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## Ninja (Aug 27, 2008)

Toro said:


> The Clinton's have hit it out of the ballpark.



Hillary sure did... In the McCain ad


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## Glori.B (Aug 27, 2008)

Ninja said:


> Hillary sure did... In the McCain ad



did you just see that? 


how'd you like john kerry's speech?


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## Ninja (Aug 28, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> And Shaq, who said he's going to run for Gov. of Alabama and pres someday.



That was Sir Charles.


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## chapstic (Aug 28, 2008)

Glori.B said:


> how so?



bill talked more about how he ran things during his presidency then anything else.  hillary spoke more about herself, she only mentioned 0bama's name 2 times in her speech.

hillary 2012?


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## editec (Aug 28, 2008)

I've been ignoring it.

I'm the guy who also skipped out of all high school pep rallies to smoke cigarettes in the parking lot with the rest of the malcontents.


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## Silence (Aug 28, 2008)

It's so weak that it's keeping you all glued to your television just to see what they are doing 

I thought John Kerry gave a great speech!  I loved how he turned around their critisim of him in 04 back on McCain.  I hope they produce ads to that effect!  

The problem with the Democrats is that they never get as down and dirty as the Repugs.  

Focusing on the issues clearly doesn't win elections as proven in the past two elections.  

They need to come out swinging and really pummel the Repugs with all the scandals and wasteful spending and hypocrisy they show.


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## busara (Aug 28, 2008)

ive only seen about 20 minutes of it so far. guess it really isnt that exciting, so ill just stick with the sox-yanks games


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## strollingbones (Aug 28, 2008)

since sharpton was allowed to speak...i dont watch...has nothing to do with freedom of speech has everything to do with my freedom from liers.


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## Reality (Aug 28, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> And Shaq, who said he's going to run for Gov. of Alabama and pres someday.
> 
> I personally think he looked a little....inebriated, but one never knows. He used to say he was a Republican. That was before Obama. Now he's an Independent, but one who just wants a black guy to get the presidency.



And naturally your outrage at the possibility of him being president has NOTHING to do with him being black. Everyone but you is a racist, naturally.


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## Reality (Aug 28, 2008)

Ninja said:


> That was Sir Charles.



hahahahahahahahahahahaha

The non-racist can't keep her blacks in order


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## Sean Lindberg (Aug 28, 2008)

I don&#8217;t agree entirely with the first post. Yes, the convention hasn&#8217;t been attacking McCain as hard as the Republicans probably will attack Obama. And the reason why is found in the 30% of Hillary voters who say they will vote for McCain. Obama needs these voters in November and since they have been acting out ever since Hillary lost, he has to mend some broken hearts. And Bill and Hillary actually did a very nice job with their speeches.

But Obama has to hit hard and get the momentum going again. And I believe he&#8217;ll do so tonight.


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## dilloduck (Aug 28, 2008)

Sean Lindberg said:


> I dont agree entirely with the first post. Yes, the convention hasnt been attacking McCain as hard as the Republicans probably will attack Obama. And the reason why is found in the 30% of Hillary voters who say they will vote for McCain. Obama needs these voters in November and since they have been acting out ever since Hillary lost, he has to mend some broken hearts. And Bill and Hillary actually did a very nice job with their speeches.
> 
> But Obama has to hit hard and get the momentum going again. And I believe hell do so tonight.



Let me guess---he will Bush screwed up, McCain is like Bush and he can do better than both of them.


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## Dr Grump (Aug 28, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Let me guess---he will Bush screwed up, McCain is like Bush and he can do better than both of them.



You should be their speech writer!


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## Sean Lindberg (Aug 28, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Let me guess---he will Bush screwed up, McCain is like Bush and he can do better than both of them.



Well, with John McCains voting record Obama has a point.


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## dilloduck (Aug 28, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> You should be their speech writer!



no--I believe that more words = less communication and I would refuse to put in a little story about poor 14 year old Mary who lives in Muskogee, OK who had been crying for 7 years because the US invaded Iraq.


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## Jennifer.Bush (Aug 28, 2008)

bill speech was kinda boring. and he can't really compare 
himself with obama with the "experience" claim. obama wasn't 
a gov of a state for 4 plus yrs.

Listening to Biden&#8217;s speech was like listening to a man trying to 
lead a country out of a deep depression with a 59% poverty rate
and a civil war that ended 2 weeks ago. There was a report that 
our so-call struggling middle class who get by only because the 
good Lord above drops cookies and milkshakes have lowered the 
number of uninsured health coverage by themsleves. 
Another report of how poverty is steady. Another on how 
homes sales jumped 2 %. Another report of the economy grew @
3.3%. America is not failing; America is not 2 steps from being 
a typical African country. Ravaged with aids, civil wars, inflation @ 453,333%, public beheadings, craziness every turn you take. GTFHO.

Biden was talking about obama has been right on many issues. 
Laughable.Was Obama  right when he said the surge should never happen? 
Was Obama right when he voted for a general to 
continue the war in iraq but he's against that same war?
Was Obama right when he said drilling for oil is a waste but then supported it? 
Was Obama right when he said voting for giving oil companies more tax cuts was wrong yet voted for  a bill that 
provided the same shit he talks against? Was Obama right when 
he had to give 3 different comments on the the issue with 
Russia and Georgia cuz his dumbass had no clue what to say? 
Was Obama right when he said he opposed wiretappings and the issue pertaining to with phone companies and yet voted for it. UM, no.

There was soooooooooooooooooo many lies/misleading comments 
it was crazy. Every lie felt like a punch. And there were so many 
I can only hope the gop don&#8217;t do the same in their convention 
(they will though).  Joe biden is the same dude who voted 
against the Gulf war and voted for the iraq war and has the balls to question mccain&#8217;s judgement. When his dumb ass said obama 
has no fucking business being the pres. Gtfoh. It&#8217;s not like 
biden said he was better than obama but obama has no business 
being there. Total diss.


First lie bidden said when he gave this notion that mccain is 
against solar/alternative energy b/c voted against it X amount 
of times. Giving the illusion imo that mccain doesn&#8217;t want to want 
new sources of energy. But didn&#8217;t obama signed on as a cosponsor 
to the McCain-Lieberman cap-and-trade climate change bill, which contains billions in subsidies for nuclear power

Second he lied when he said nobody respects America.      
Prez of france committed 700 troops to the war in Afghan
You have Georgia crying to the U.S begging us for help.
Poland is goona let the U.S build a missile shield in their country.


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## Shogun (Aug 28, 2008)

700 french troops.. WOW.  thats like.. a fucking lot.  *yawn*


say, how many countries have already pulled out?  It's cool though.. your reaction speaks more about how many sensitive issues Biden touched on than it does your perceived errors.


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## rayboyusmc (Aug 28, 2008)

If God appeared and said Obama was his selected one, you would still bitch about the convention.

It's all hoopla and show and no more.  The difference with the Republican convention is that more of the participants will look like they are constipated and white.


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## Shadow (Aug 28, 2008)

rayboyusmc said:


> If God appeared and said Obama was his selected one, you would still bitch about the convention.



You mean he didn't.  I guess you'd better call Pelosi and let her know then...


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## Shogun (Aug 28, 2008)

well.. that and injecting a healthy dose of money into the hooker economy.


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> And Shaq, who said he's going to run for Gov. of Alabama and pres someday.
> 
> I personally think he looked a little....inebriated, but one never knows. He used to say he was a Republican. That was before Obama. Now he's an Independent, but one who just wants a black guy to get the presidency.



I know a lot of Hillary supporters who were democrats, before Obama, and now they are independents, because they don't want a black guy to be president.


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## Ravi (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> I know a lot of Hillary supporters who were democrats, before Obama, and now they are independents, because they don't want a black guy to be president.


Where do you live, Alabama? I don't know a single democrat that wouldn't vote for a black person.


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## steeliniraq (Aug 28, 2008)

I have watched the convention a bit.  The only thing I have really came away sure about is the DEMS are really sure of themselves and truly think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I have never seen so many people talk about how great they are!  I mean I can really relate to people who attended a racist church, an adulterer, a rich Kennedy who killed a woman, a woman who claims she has never been proud of her country until it came time for her husband to run for president, and a Clinton who openly hates Obama but lies so she can save her career inside a political party.  What a waste!


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Where do you live, Alabama? I don't know a single democrat that wouldn't vote for a black person.



And I don't know any Independents that woudln't vote for a black person, either. But that doesn't mean we're going to vote for someone just because he is black, either.


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Where do you live, Alabama? I don't know a single democrat that wouldn't vote for a black person.



You don't think there are racist union workers?  But I hope you are right.  

My cousin and his wife are teachers and because they are also born agains, they have voted for Bush twice and will vote for John McCain because of abortion.

You don't know a lot of Democrats apparently.


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

steeliniraq said:


> I have watched the convention a bit.  The only thing I have really came away sure about is the DEMS are really sure of themselves and truly think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I have never seen so many people talk about how great they are!  I mean I can really relate to people who attended a racist church, an adulterer, a rich Kennedy who killed a woman, a woman who claims she has never been proud of her country until it came time for her husband to run for president, and a Clinton who openly hates Obama but lies so she can save her career inside a political party.  What a waste!



Damned if we do, damned if we don't.  If we weren't sure of ourselves, you would come here and say we aren't confident.

Most of your right wing churches are filled with white racists.  

Bush killed 4000 soldiers over a lie.

McCain said he never appreciated America until he was a POW.

McCain has gone against the McCain from 2000.  Before Obama debates him, maybe he should debate himself.  Some people still think he is pro choice.  They don't realize he flipped on that.


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> McCain said he never appreciated America until he was a POW.



Prove it.


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

jsanders said:


> Prove it.



Do I have to prove it to you?  That came out right after Michelle made her gaffe.  It's on tape.  Will you blow me if I'm right?  

And can you provide me Michelle's quote?  You go first.


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

jsanders said:


> Prove it.



I hate having to prove shit to you ignorant bastards.  

Hannity: You spent two years of this five-and-a-half-year period in solitary confinement. What does that do to a person, to spend that much time in solitary confinement?

McCain: I think it makes you a better person. Obviously, it makes you love America. I really didnt love America until I was deprived of her company

So that would have made John McCain 31 before he loved America.  

Michelle is 44.  

John McCain was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.  Michelle was born on the south side of Chicago.  IN THE 60's!!!  Do you even know American history?  I'm guessing not.


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Do I have to prove it to you?  That came out right after Michelle made her gaffe.  It's on tape.  Will you blow me if I'm right?
> 
> And can you provide me Michelle's quote?  You go first.



McCain's comment was that he didn't "really love his country until he was deprived of its company." I can relate to that. "You don't know what you've got until it's gone," is hardly the same as, "You don't have anything until you have everything your way."


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

jsanders said:


> McCain's comment was that he didn't "really love his country until he was deprived of its company." I can relate to that. "You don't know what you've got until it's gone," is hardly the same as, "You don't have anything until you have everything your way."



You are a schmuck.  Of course you would see it that way.  

Have a nice day.


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> John McCain was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.



McCain at least joined the military and served his country, WHEN HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. He could have done whatever he wanted to, but he followed in the steps of his father and grandfather and join the military. Does that sound like a silver spoon to you?

It sounds to me like McCain took a lot of things for granted in his early years, and after having it all taken away for five years, he began to realize that. I can't hold him in contempt for that, I can only respect him for learning a life lesson.


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## steeliniraq (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Damned if we do, damned if we don't.  If we weren't sure of ourselves, you would come here and say we aren't confident.
> 
> Most of your right wing churches are filled with white racists.
> 
> ...



LOL thanks for showing your true colors.  Exactly what is a right wing church?  Well, other then a bunch of racist, lol!  All whites who are conservatives and attend church are racist?

Bush killed 4000 soldiers over a lie.  Remind me how many DEMS supported the war again?  Did VP Biden say yes to it?  I cant remember please inform.

My point was if you are going to have a convention lay out your fu*(ing plan on how you are going to fix the issues not a bunch of feel good crap no one but those who have decided on Obama care about.  We, the undecided, dont give 2 shi*s about that stuff.

As for Mccain I never said i was voting for him.  I could care less about him but I will say being tortured after serving your country says a lot.  I will say one thing.  I was and still am undecided but I wont be voting for Obama.  If Mccain fails also then I will vote for the indepent. as a vote of no confidence.


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> You are a schmuck.  Of course you would see it that way.
> 
> Have a nice day.



You're an idiot. McCain offered to serve his country, so he obviously had some sort of respect or pride in it before becoming a POW.


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

jsanders said:


> You're an idiot. McCain offered to serve his country, so he obviously had some sort of respect or pride in it before becoming a POW.



Same with John Kerry, right?

And a lot of misguided, unfocused kids who don't know what they want to do in life go into the service first.  It isn't always a glamourous reason or for the love of their country.  My buddy went in because he didn't want to go to college and he didn't want to work construction.  McCain wanted to put it on his resume when he ran for politics.  

Your homework assignment is to see Men of Honor with Cuba Gooding Jr. and Denero.

You clearly haven't a clue about black history.


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Same with John Kerry, right?



Yes, exactly.



> And a lot of misguided, unfocused kids who don't know what they want to do in life go into the service first.



Wow, I'm glad you have faith in our military. I love your leftwing bullshit.



> It isn't always a glamourous reason or for the love of their country.



McCain was neither misguided or unfocused. He was doing what his father and grandfather has done, out of respect.



> My buddy went in because he didn't want to go to college and he didn't want to work construction.



Your buddy is not McCain, so what's your point?



> McCain wanted to put it on his resume when he ran for politics.



Proof?



> Your homework assignment is to see Men of Honor with Cuba Gooding Jr. and Denero.



Seen it, a few times. It's one of only 2 movies where I didn't want to punch Cuba Gooding Jr. in the head.



> You clearly haven't a clue about black history.



I grew up on black history. I even took a black history class in high school.


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## jla1178 (Aug 28, 2008)

steeliniraq said:


> I have watched the convention a bit.  The only thing I have really came away sure about is the DEMS are really sure of themselves and truly think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I have never seen so many people talk about how great they are!  I mean I can really relate to people who attended a racist church, an adulterer, a rich Kennedy who killed a woman, a woman who claims she has never been proud of her country until it came time for her husband to run for president, and a Clinton who openly hates Obama but lies so she can save her career inside a political party.  What a waste!



God bless America!


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

jsanders said:


> Yes, exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My buddy's story proves you may be assuming way too much when you assume McCain joined the military for love of country.  

What did McCain try to do when he got out of the military?  Same for Kerry.  Both wanted to go into politics.  Read a book.  

Facts are never bullshit.  Don't act like every soldier is heroic and smart.  Most of them are young, dumb and full of cum.

If you know black history, you should understand why this is the first time a Michelle Obama doesn't feel like she lives in a racist country.  Every black I know is shocked Obama is the nominee and they still don't believe white America will vote for a black guy.  Will you?

PS.  I agree about punching Cuba Gooding Jr. in the face.  LOL.


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> My buddy's story proves you may be assuming way too much when you assume McCain joined the military for love of country.



No, your buddy's story proves your buddy didn't give a shit about his country.



> What did McCain try to do when he got out of the military?  Same for Kerry.  Both wanted to go into politics.  Read a book.



There are a lot of options for people who want to go straight into politics. Like, going to college, for instance. McCain went into the military. Which do you think was the easier route? Four years in a school, or five years as a prisoner.



> Facts are never bullshit.  Don't act like every soldier is heroic and smart.  Most of them are young, dumb and full of cum.



I won't assume they are all heroes if you won't assume that they are all deadbeats. Thanks.



> If you know black history, you should understand why this is the first time a Michelle Obama doesn't feel like she lives in a racist country.  Every black I know is shocked Obama is the nominee and they still don't believe white America will vote for a black guy.  Will you?



She needed a black man to be President to feel like the country was no longer racist? Give me a break. So does that mean women can still think this country is sexist?


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

jsanders said:


> No, your buddy's story proves your buddy didn't give a shit about his country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My buddy would punch you in the face for saying that.  He was an average middle class American kid.  Post 9-11, people went in for patriotism.  Pre 9-11, they went in for college tuition or because the town they lived in had a horrible economy.  That's why they pray on inner city kids.

McCain didn't join during Nam.  He signed up before that.  And he got into fighter pilot school, even though he finished at the bottom of his class.  Fighter pilots had it the best.  He should have never been a fighter pilot.  He crashed 5 planes.  He sure as hell didn't go to the front lines.  He was like Prince Harry.  

No, they aren't all deadbeats.  I'm generalizing, true.

And you are making way too much out of Michelle's comment.  No matter what, you aint voting for Obama so fuck it, right?


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## chopcrazy (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> My buddy would punch you in the face for saying that.  He was an average middle class American kid.  Post 9-11, people went in for patriotism.  Pre 9-11, they went in for college tuition or because the town they lived in had a horrible economy.  That's why they pray on inner city kids.
> 
> McCain didn't join during Nam.  He signed up before that.  And he got into fighter pilot school, even though he finished at the bottom of his class.  Fighter pilots had it the best.  He should have never been a fighter pilot.  He crashed 5 planes.  He sure as hell didn't go to the front lines.  He was like Prince Harry.
> 
> ...




How did he becoma a POW if he was did not get to the front lines? What criteria are you using to evaluate whether he should have been a fighter pilot? You do not know much about warfare if you think fighter pilots have it best...especially during Vietnam. I would say submariners and surface ship sailors have it better than fighter pilots.


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## Silence (Aug 28, 2008)

steeliniraq said:


> I have watched the convention a bit.  The only thing I have really came away sure about is the DEMS are really sure of themselves and truly think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I have never seen so many people talk about how great they are!  I mean I can really relate to people who attended a racist church, an adulterer, a rich Kennedy who killed a woman, a woman who claims she has never been proud of her country until it came time for her husband to run for president, and a Clinton who openly hates Obama but lies so she can save her career inside a political party.  What a waste!



 and I guess you can relate to a guy who owns so many houses he can't keep track, a man who left his first crippled wife to marry a younger, richer prettier woman (mccain is an adulterer too remember), a woman who not only got hooked on pills but stole from her own non-profit to feed her addiction, a woman whose own father had been in prison and who was connected to the mob and a killing of a journalist, and a party in general who by and large of the most perverts (mark foley, bill o'reilly), cheaters (rudy, john mccain, newt, etc.) liars (bush, cheney, rice, rove, libby, et al), and not to mention they are in bed with the Saudi's and have been lining their pockets with our money all the while ignoring the fact that 15 or the 19 highjackers were Saudi nationals.  

uh huh...the Dems are out of touch with the American people...


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> No matter what, you aint voting for Obama so fuck it, right?



Wow, you're a quick learner.


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## Jennifer.Bush (Aug 28, 2008)

Shogun said:


> 700 french troops.. WOW.  thats like.. a fucking lot.  *yawn*
> 
> 
> say, how many countries have already pulled out?  It's cool though.. your reaction speaks more about how many sensitive issues Biden touched on than it does your perceived errors.


Its france we are talking about, not a military strong hold country

 lies do cause me to get upset, Im sorry


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## midcan5 (Aug 28, 2008)

You mean they didn't hang anyone yet? You are such a racist, I have a hard time taking you serious. Racists are somewhere short of human.


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## chapstic (Aug 28, 2008)

midcan5 said:


> You mean they didn't hang anyone yet? You are such a racist, I have a hard time taking you serious. Racists are somewhere short of human.



then why are you voting for one?


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## Jon (Aug 28, 2008)

chapstic said:


> then why are you voting for one?


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## chapstic (Aug 28, 2008)

before you respond, answer me this midcan5,  if i were to attended a church that support white supremacy for 20 years, would that make me a racist?


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## Ninja (Aug 28, 2008)

chapstic said:


> then why are you voting for one?





chapstic pwnt midcan5


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

chopcrazy said:


> How did he becoma a POW if he was did not get to the front lines? What criteria are you using to evaluate whether he should have been a fighter pilot? You do not know much about warfare if you think fighter pilots have it best...especially during Vietnam. I would say submariners and surface ship sailors have it better than fighter pilots.



You need to watch top gun.  The fly boys are superior to all others.  He crashed 5 planes.  Would you fly with the guy?  And he finished at the bottom of his class.  Sound familiar?  Yea, you think bush and mccain were fighter pilots because it sucked.  you live in lala land.

Front lines means patrolling on foot, or on boat going up river and getting ambushed.  kerry was front line.  Mccain dropped bombs from 1000 up.  Didn't get dirty until he got shot down.  he must not have been that good.

What if you heard kerry sang like a bird while he was a pow.  you'd use it against him, right?

you'd call kerry a manchurian candidate if he were brainwashed for 5 and a half yrs in a pow camp, right?

and you'd think it was weird if he were pro torture after being tortured.

it must have worked.  the enemy must have gotten good information off mccain if he is pro torture, right?


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## 007 (Aug 28, 2008)

All I can say is, if some little, inexperienced black boy with a muslim name and a terrorist, a convicted con man and a racist, ranting preacher are his best friends is the best the dems can do for their choice to be President... then that party is fucked, MAJOR fucked, pure and simple. What a pathetic collection of morons.


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## sealybobo (Aug 28, 2008)

chapstic said:


> then why are you voting for one?



People not voting for Obama:

a. racists
b. bitter hillary supporters
c. people who believe fox news
d. pro lifers
e. pro gus
f. people that make $250k
g. anti gays

If you make less than $250k and voting for mccain, you are voting against your own financial interests.  are you stupid?  did you pay attention for the past 8 yrs?  

then what is your problem? 

Stop following the gop off a cliff.  don't be so stubborn.


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## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> People not voting for Obama:
> 
> a. racists
> b. bitter hillary supporters
> ...



i just do what rush limbaugh tells me to do.


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## 007 (Aug 29, 2008)

People who are not voting for hussein:

1. People that are not racist
2. Ardent Hillary supporters
3. People who don't believe ABC, NBC, CBS, CNBC, MSNBC and CNN.
4. Anti Abortion
5. Pro Second Amendment
6. Successful business owners
7. People against new taxes
8. Pro military
9. People against big government/socialism
10. Educated people


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## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

Pale Rider said:


> All I can say is, if some little, inexperienced black boy with a muslim name and a terrorist, a convicted con man and a racist, ranting preacher are his best friends is the best the dems can do for their choice to be President... then that party is fucked, MAJOR fucked, pure and simple. What a pathetic collection of morons.



Did you se my george carlin post today?  yes, this is the best we got.  because obama is 10 times cleaner than mccain.

example, is a guy who killed one man for fun as bad as a guy that did it 10 times for fun?

rezko is a tiny fish in a little pond compared to abramoff.  yet you won't let that go.  

mccain associates with bush, who murdered 4000 plus americans and maimed thousands and broke up families and killed 1 million iraqis, and we know they lied.

You just believed their first excuse, second, third and everytime the mission changed, you defended the new excuses.  

I don't bitch about politicians.  they are just a product of the people.  if you have ignorant selfish people, of course you wil also have greed gnorant stupid politicians.  garbage in, garbage out.


----------



## Gunny (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Did you se my george carlin post today?  yes, this is the best we got.  because obama is 10 times cleaner than mccain.
> 
> example, is a guy who killed one man for fun as bad as a guy that did it 10 times for fun?
> 
> ...



I'm just saying thanks there's a James Bond movie on right now so I don't have to suffer a buch of people like you backslapping each other and telling each other how brilliant you are and making promises that'll never be kept.

Next up:  the Weather Channel if all else fails.


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

William Joyce said:


> I'm channeling pundits a little here, but my personal observation is that the speeches thus far have been WEAK SAUCE indeed.
> 
> There's such a wealth of stuff to attack, like the disaster in Iraq, the economy, you name it.  But mostly what the Democrats giving speeches are yammering about is...
> 
> ...



Its like the Redeem Team basketball in the olympics.  Kind of boring to see them kill night after night.  SORRY now mistakes or gaffes you can rip on.  no dean yeeaaahhhhaawwwss!

everyone hit it out of the park.  pelosi, gore, both clintons, biden and the obamas.  

obama just said it.  won't raise taxes on 95 percent of americans.

i'm going to take a chance on obama.

mccain has said no to progress for over 20 yrs.  votes with bush 90 percent.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome each time.


----------



## Gunny (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Its like the Redeem Team basketball in the olympics.  Kind of boring to see them kill night after night.  SORRY now mistakes or gaffes you can rip on.  no dean yeeaaahhhhaawwwss!
> 
> everyone hit it out of the park.  pelosi, gore, both clintons, biden and the obamas.
> 
> ...



Update for Sealy:  A worn out Star Trek movie saved the day.


----------



## Ninja (Aug 29, 2008)

This speech is pretty lame. I admit I was a bit worried Obama might deliver a knockout. Anxiety quelled - this won't live up to the hype.


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome each time.



Insanity is believing that McCain is the same as Bush.


----------



## jillian (Aug 29, 2008)

jsanders said:


> Insanity is believing that McCain is the same as Bush.



because, of course, he hasn't supported his lunatic policies somewhere between 80% and 95% of the time....

time to get out of that fantasy world you live in....


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

jillian said:


> because, of course, he hasn't supported his lunatic policies somewhere between 80% and 95% of the time....
> 
> time to get out of that fantasy world you live in....



It's called pandering. McCain's done it for eight years. Why? Because Bush kicked his ass in the 2000 primaries. Why? Because Bush appealed to conservatives. McCain has spent eight years trying to gain support from those same people, knowing he would make his run this year. When it's all over, win or lose, we'll see McCain back to his old ways.

McCain has done for eight years what Obama is doing now: pandering to get support from the people who didn't support you before.


----------



## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

jsanders said:


> Insanity is believing that McCain is the same as Bush.



*Congressional Quarterly:  McCain Votes with Bush 95 to 100% of the Time*

According to a Congressional Quarterly analysis of Senate votes on issues President Bush expressed an explicit, stated opinion, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) voted with President Bush 100 percent of the time in 2008 and 95 percent of the time in 2007[/quote]
.


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

1 obama said he would line by line cut programs "pork" that don't work.  Ya gotta love that.  Sounds like new government
2 he was right about iraq from the very beginning.  oh, he just burned bush.  said he wouldn't even go to the cave bin ladin lives in.  snap!
3. mccain bush policy made us weak and bankrupt us.
4. there, obama said troops were under equipt and under trained.

Specific enough?

Now he's calling Mccain on the partisan playbook dirty politics.

This is too good.  Don't know how the gop will respond.  Kerry and Gore should have laid it out this way.

Coming to understand with gun and abortion people and anti gay people.  He is a uniter.

Now you say we are big taxers.  If you don't have a record to run on, scare voters into thinking we will be worse.  

Remember those of you that believed bush was a good christian man?  and you don't see obama is right on the money?  your judgement is off, huh?  

forget whether or not you'd have a beer wit mccain/bush.  would they have one with you?


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Ninja said:


> This speech is pretty lame. I admit I was a bit worried Obama might deliver a knockout. Anxiety quelled - this won't live up to the hype.



its another typical 0bama speech. all hype, "mccain sucks", "bush sucks", hope, change, more hype, "i will fix all your problems, but won't tell you how", "i will fix iraq, healthcare, economy, this, that, the other, but i don't know how i will."

it was well presented, but had very very little substance.


----------



## Gunny (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> *Congressional Quarterly:  McCain Votes with Bush 95 to 100% of the Time*
> 
> According to a Congressional Quarterly analysis of Senate votes on issues President Bush expressed an explicit, stated opinion, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) voted with President Bush 100 percent of the time in 2008 and 95 percent of the time in 2007


.[/QUOTE]

Newsflash:  McCain is a Republican.  It's kind of what's expected.


----------



## Article 15 (Aug 29, 2008)

John McCain can't do what Barack Obama just did ...


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> John McCain can't do what Barack Obama just did ...



present another substance-less speech? even i could do that.


----------



## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> John McCain can't do what Barack Obama just did ...


 
Why would he want to unless he planned on being a preacher ?


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> John McCain can't do what Barack Obama just did ...



What's that? Put me to sleep with more rhetoric.

It's sad that Obama was the fifth best speaker at HIS convention. Even his wife did better.


----------



## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> John McCain can't do what Barack Obama just did ...



OMG, he just shredded. 

I thought Reagan and Clinton were great orators.  This dude is in another league.


----------



## Ninja (Aug 29, 2008)

I think I could give a better speech.

I sure as hell could write a better speech.


----------



## Toro (Aug 29, 2008)

Whoa-hoa!

The Democrats did all they had to do and more.  Obama's speech was fantastic.

Okay, Republicans.  You've got your work cut out for you.


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

jsanders said:


> It's called pandering. McCain's done it for eight years. Why? Because Bush kicked his ass in the 2000 primaries. Why? Because Bush appealed to conservatives. McCain has spent eight years trying to gain support from those same people, knowing he would make his run this year. When it's all over, win or lose, we'll see McCain back to his old ways.
> 
> McCain has done for eight years what Obama is doing now: pandering to get support from the people who didn't support you before.



I love the old "i'm banking on this mccain being the liar" and the pro lifers are hoping this mccain is the real one.

trust me, mccain voted with bush 90 percent for 8 yrs.

seriously, why are you really voting for mccain?  what's the real reason?


----------



## Ninja (Aug 29, 2008)

Toro said:


> The Democrats did all they had to do and more.  Obama's speech was fantastic.



We knew the party loyalists would like it.


----------



## Article 15 (Aug 29, 2008)

Ninja said:


> I think I could give a better speech.
> 
> I sure as hell could write a better speech.



You might want to give John McCain a call then ... he's gonna need ya


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> OMG, he just shredded.
> 
> I thought Reagan and Clinton were great orators.  This dude is in another league.



it was a nice speech. presented well and worded well. unfortunately it had 0 substance.  he spoke more about bush and mccain then his own policies.


----------



## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

Ninja said:


> I think I could give a better speech.
> 
> I sure as hell could write a better speech.



That's because you're a bush-loving, hyper partisan Con. 

It doesn't matter if you're a republican or a democrat.  That was a well crafted speech, and he is an amazing orator.


----------



## Ninja (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> That's because you're a bush-loving, hyper partisan Con.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you're a republican or a democrat.  That was a well crafted speech, and he is an amazing orator.



Creative phraseology. I've never heard that before 

And I do admit to being a bush-loving, hyper partisan con - to the degree that I voted for none other than John Forbes Kerry in 2004. 

NEXT...


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> I love the old "i'm banking on this mccain being the liar" and the pro lifers are hoping this mccain is the real one.
> 
> trust me, mccain voted with bush 90 percent for 8 yrs.
> 
> seriously, why are you really voting for mccain?  what's the real reason?



McCain is one of two things: either the old John McCain before 2000, or the John McCain we've had for eight years.

Both are better than Obama.


----------



## Article 15 (Aug 29, 2008)

Ninja said:


> Creative phraseology. I've never heard that before
> 
> And I do admit to being a bush-loving, hyper partisan con - to the degree that *I voted for none other than John Forbes Kerry in 2004*.
> 
> NEXT...





Ewwwww


----------



## random3434 (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> it was a nice speech. presented well and worded well. unfortunately it has 0 substance.  he spoke more about bush and mccain then his own policies.





Hmmmm, I seemed to hear him talking about:


-Giving American companies better tax breaks

-Cut taxes for 95% of American familes

-Within 10 years end dependence on oil from the Middle East

-Use clean coal technology, harness nuclear and wind solar power

-More early childhood education programs!

-Affordable health care

-Affordable college education

-Lower premiums on health insurance


To name a few......


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> It doesn't matter if you're a republican or a democrat.  That was a well crafted speech, and he is an amazing orator.



I guess it doesn't matter, because I'm neither of those things, and I found it to be trite. Nothing new, nothing worthwhile, nothing amazing.


----------



## Ninja (Aug 29, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> Hmmmm, I seemed to hear him talking about:
> 
> 
> -Giving American companies better tax breaks
> ...



So basically, he recycled Kerry's ghostwriter.


----------



## Article 15 (Aug 29, 2008)

jsanders said:


> I guess it doesn't matter, because I'm neither of those things, and I found it to be trite. Nothing new, nothing worthwhile, nothing amazing.



Says the guy with the "Obama Anti-Christ" avatar ...


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> -More early childhood education programs!



That's a state issue. Nothing he can do about it.


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> Says the guy with the "Obama Anti-Christ" avatar ...



Point?


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> Hmmmm, I seemed to hear him talking about:
> 
> 
> -Giving American companies better tax breaks
> ...



how does he accomplish this without more of my paycheck going to the government?


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> it was a nice speech. presented well and worded well. unfortunately it had 0 substance.  he spoke more about bush and mccain then his own policies.



Lets hear how much substance McCain gives.  Apparently, this is your first election?

Mccain's plan;

1.  Give companies and the rich more tax breaks for sending jobs overseas because most imporant is that corporations max profits.  doesn't matter if only 1 percent of america benefits from this because they trickle down.  they buy toys, hire illegals to do their lawns and housekeeping for their multiple homes.  

2.  stay in iraq spending $12k mo till 2015 rather than 2010 because chaney wants more.

mccain will follow orders just like bush did.


----------



## Article 15 (Aug 29, 2008)

jsanders said:


> Point?



Is over your head apparently ...


----------



## Jon (Aug 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> Is over your head apparently ...



No, I actually got your point. I just wanted you to see how stupid it was.


----------



## Article 15 (Aug 29, 2008)

jsanders said:


> No, I actually got your point. I just wanted you to see how stupid it was.



lol ... what an incredibly weak retort


----------



## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> Hmmmm, I seemed to hear him talking about:
> 
> 
> -Giving American companies better tax breaks
> ...



Is he aware that nuclear power has already been harnessed?


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> how does he accomplish this without more of my paycheck going to the government?



He said he would end ineffective programs line by line.  what if half those pork projects went away?

do you realize the gop doubled the debt or how amazing that is?  get out your checkbook is right.

they spent so much, the federal reserve had to print more, which drove the value down, so your life savings got taxed to hell, basically, right?

and you didn't cry asking where bush got the money to give the rich a tax break, don't worry about it when obama gives 90 percent of us 3 times more than mccain wants to give us.

and don't worry when obama ends the unfair tax break to the rich.  they'll still be rich.  and they didn't mind getting a tax break we weren't getting, during a time of war?

why are you voting mccain again?


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Lets hear how much substance McCain gives.  Apparently, this is your first election?
> 
> Mccain's plan;
> 
> ...



that's to bad, i don't support mccain in any way.  i'm not voting for mccain, so i don't understand why you are targeting me.


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> He said he would end ineffective programs line by line.  what if half those pork projects went away?
> 
> do you realize the gop doubled the debt or how amazing that is?  get out your checkbook is right.
> 
> ...



i never voted for bush, and i'm not voting for mccain.  when 0bama moves our capital gains tax to 28% that will affect all of us, including revenue for the government.


----------



## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> it was a nice speech. presented well and worded well. *unfortunately it had 0 substance*.  he spoke more about bush and mccain then his own policies.




Change means a tax code that doesn't reward the lobbyists who wrote it, but the American workers and small businesses who deserve it.

Unlike John McCain,* I will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America.*.

*I will eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and the start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow*.

*I will cut taxes  cut taxes  for 95% of all working families.* Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class.

And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, *I will set a clear goal as President: in ten years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East*.

Washington's been talking about our oil addiction for the last thirty years, and John McCain has been there for twenty-six of them. In that time, he's said no to higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars, no to investments in renewable energy, no to renewable fuels. And today, we import triple the amount of oil as the day that Senator McCain took office.

Now is the time to end this addiction, and to understand that drilling is a stop-gap measure, not a long-term solution. Not even close.

As President,* I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies re-tool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America. I'll make it easier for the American people to afford these new cars. And I'll invest 150 billion dollars over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy  wind power and solar power and the next generation of biofuels; an investment that will lead to new industries and five million new jobs that pay well and can't ever be outsourced.*

America, now is not the time for small plans.

Now is the time to finally meet our moral obligation to provide every child a world-class education, because it will take nothing less to compete in the global economy. Michelle and I are only here tonight because we were given a chance at an education. And I will not settle for an America where some kids don't have that chance.* I'll invest in early childhood education. I'll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries and give them more support. And in exchange, I'll ask for higher standards and more accountability. And we will keep our promise to every young American  if you commit to serving your community or your country, we will make sure you can afford a college education.*

Now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American. *If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves*. And as someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer, I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most.

N*ow is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave,* because nobody in America should have to choose between keeping their jobs and caring for a sick child or ailing parent.

*Now is the time to change our bankruptcy laws*, so that your pensions are protected ahead of CEO bonuses; and the time to protect Social Security for future generations.

And *now is the time to keep the promise of equal pay for an equal day's work,* because I want my daughters to have exactly the same opportunities as your sons.

Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime  by *closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less*  because we cannot meet twenty-first century challenges with a twentieth century bureaucracy.

As Commander-in-Chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home.

*I will end this war in Iraq responsibly, and finish the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan. I will rebuild our military to meet future conflicts*. But I will also *renew the tough, direct diplomacy that can prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons and curb Russian aggression*. I will *build new partnerships to defeat the threats of the 21st century: terrorism and nuclear proliferation; poverty and genocide; climate change and disease.* And I will restore our moral standing, so that America is once again that last, best hope for all who are called to the cause of freedom, who long for lives of peace, and who yearn for a better future.

These are the policies I will pursue. And in the weeks ahead, I look forward to debating them with John McCain.


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

yes, sounds so beautiful doesn't it? how how how how how how how how is all i ask?  how is 0bama going to do it?  how is 0bama going to do it without my paycheck going to people who don't want to work because the government gives them a check?


----------



## random3434 (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> yes, sounds so beautiful doesn't it? how how how how how how how how is all i ask?  how is 0bama going to do it?  how is 0bama going to do it without my paycheck going to people who don't want to work because the government gives them a check?





One More Time for you Chap:





> Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime  by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less  because we cannot meet twenty-first century challenges with a twentieth century bureaucracy.


----------



## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Change means a tax code that doesn't reward the lobbyists who wrote it, but the American workers and small businesses who deserve it.
> 
> Unlike John McCain,* I will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America.*.
> 
> ...



You do understand that he can't pay for this ?


----------



## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> yes, sounds so beautiful doesn't it? how how how how how how how how is all i ask?  how is 0bama going to do it?  how is 0bama going to do it without my paycheck going to people who don't want to work because the government gives them a check?



Look, if you don't understand how politics work, maybe you should be participating on a sports forum, or an entertainment message board forum. 

Broad policy proposals are given in 30 minute speeches.  That's the way it works dude.  Your concern trolling isn't fooling anyone.  There isn't time in a speech to go through, line by line, the specific mechanics of every policy. 

speeches give you a taste of his policies and priorities.  Then you go to his damn website if you want to read more details.


----------



## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> yes, sounds so beautiful doesn't it? how how how how how how how how is all i ask?  how is 0bama going to do it?  how is 0bama going to do it without my paycheck going to people who don't want to work because the government gives them a check?



Wait.... on another threat you said he gave no specifics.

Aren't you going to apologize for lying?


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> You do understand that he can't pay for this ?



he can't pay for it, very true.  when your taxes and my taxes go up, then he maybe able to pay for half of it.


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Wait.... on another threat you said he gave no specifics.
> 
> Aren't you going to apologize for lying?



which one?


----------



## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Broad policy proposals are given in 30 minute speeches.  That's the way it works dude.   There isn't time in a speech to go through, line by line, the specific mechanics of every policy.



Of course not--the devil is all in the details. He's hoping all the starry eyed desperates won't ask for details. For instance--what federal programs does he intend to deem useless and wasteful ? That might be good to know before you vote for someone who does away with your job.


----------



## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> You do understand that he can't pay for this ?



Of course he can.

Bringing the troops home from Iraq will save $200 billion dollars a year.

Raising taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year will bring in even more.


----------



## Ninja (Aug 29, 2008)

Obama united a party tonight...































... The GOP


----------



## Ninja (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Bringing the troops home from Iraq will save $200 billion dollars a year.



But then he won't be able to keep AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Of course he can.
> 
> Bringing the troops home from Iraq will save $200 billion dollars a year.
> 
> Raising taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year will bring in even more.



ahh yes, raising the capital gains tax to 28% will give even more. about time we are on the same page.


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> yes, sounds so beautiful doesn't it? how how how how how how how how is all i ask?  how is 0bama going to do it?  how is 0bama going to do it without my paycheck going to people who don't want to work because the government gives them a check?



How did bush double the debt and not raise your taxes?  It sounds like some good programs that benefit the middle class that bush ended will come back and a lot of bush's wasteful programs will end.  we spent more on defense than every other country combined.  half of it was sweetheart deals to bush' buddies.  when I say bush I mean the pnac men.  the good old boys.

chaney will be a billionaire the day he leaves office.  mission accomplished.  if they get 4 more yrs, bonus.

but it aint gonna happen.  were gonna even pick up more seats in both houses.

your only hope is enough ppl are dumb and racist.


----------



## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> ahh yes, raising the capital gains tax to 28% will give even more. about time we are on the same page.



Reducing capital gains for startups and the middle class and raising taxes on the rich. It need to be done. The gap between the rich and the poor has grown wider and wider.


----------



## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

Ultra conservative Reagan worshipper, and noted Nixon apologist Pat Buchannon on MSNBC saying that this was the best convention speech he's ever seen in his life.


----------



## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Reducing capital gains for startups and the middle class and raising taxes on the rich. It need to be done. The gap between the rich and the poor has grown wider and wider.



And you expect the wealthy to sit idly by and let the government rip them off ?


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Reducing capital gains for startups and the middle class and raising taxes on the rich. It need to be done. The gap between the rich and the poor has grown wider and wider.



judging by such an ignorant statement, you have no clue what the capital gains tax is.

i will present you with a video, which you can learn along with 0bama.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po7J0f5TMrQ]YouTube - Barack Obama on Taxes[/ame]


----------



## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> And you expect the wealthy to sit idly by and let the government rip them off ?



No, I expect them to use everything in their power to defeat this very intelligent and very good man.


----------



## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Ultra conservative Reagan worshipper, and noted Nixon apologist Pat Buchannon on MSNBC saying that this was the best convention speech he's ever seen in his life.



Pat Buchannon rocks!


----------



## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> judging by such an ignorant statement, you have no clue what the capital gains tax is.
> 
> i will present you with a video, which you can learn along with 0bama.
> 
> YouTube - Barack Obama on Taxes



I majored in business in college and made A's in economics and accounting. I know exactly what capital gains taxes are.


----------



## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Pat Buchannon rocks!



Buchanon is a generally honest conservative, unlike the Cons on this thread who are concern trolling about how horrible Obama's speech allegedly was.


----------



## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Buchanon is a generally honest conservative, unlike the Cons on this thread who are concern trolling about how horrible Obama's speech allegedly was.



It was a great speech--everyone who liked him still does. The problem is STILL that we cannot afford to take what he is promising.


----------



## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> I majored in business in college and made A's in economics and accounting. I know exactly what capital gains taxes are.



maybe i'm the dumb one then. 

how do you lower the capital gains tax for some and raise it for others?


----------



## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

Ninja said:


> Obama united a party tonight...
> 
> ... The GOP



A lot of religious people are coming to the dems.

A lot of young

A lot of new black voters.

A lot more military

everyone who lost a job that went overseas

everyone that lost a home

everyone with a 401k

Everyone that drives a car

Old folks who are getting screwed with low interest rates.

walmart employees

unions

women

we filled a huge stadium.  mccain will have 10,000


----------



## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> maybe i'm the dumb one then.
> 
> how do you lower the capital gains tax for some and raise it for others?



By defining who pays and who doesn't.

If your company is a small startup, you don't pay.

If your an oil company making windfall profits by screwing the American people, you do pay.


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## Article 15 (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> judging by such an ignorant statement, you have no clue what the capital gains tax is.
> 
> i will present you with a video, which you can learn along with 0bama.
> 
> YouTube - Barack Obama on Taxes



Are you trying to sluff this video off again?  

Dude ... it's obvious you don't know what you are talking about ... when I called your transparent bluff the other night you flubbed for a post or two then admitted you couldn't provide any kind of numbers to back up your assertion that the gov't would lose revenue with a capital gains tax increase to 28% ... and this was after RD pwn3d your ass when you tried to claim the tax burden chart posted didn't have capital gains included ... don't you remember learning that night that people making less than 250k wont see that increase? ... perhaps an educated adult from your side can take up your banner and lay out an actual arguement.


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## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> By defining who pays and who doesn't.
> 
> If your company is a small startup, you don't pay.
> 
> If your an oil company making windfall profits by screwing the American people, you do pay.



yup, should of known it was going to be an ignorant answer.  thanks for your input though.  canada is still around, just food for thought.


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## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> By defining who pays and who doesn't.
> 
> If your company is a small startup, you don't pay.
> 
> If your an oil company making windfall profits by screwing the American people, you do pay.



The rich are moving their money as we speak and tax lawyers are working on loopholes before the law has been written. What will we end up with. Programs no one can pay for. We already HAVE too many of those !


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## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> yup, should of known it was going to be an ignorant answer.  thanks for your input though.  canada is still around, just food for thought.




Do you Bush voters really feel like you have to lie to win an election or a message board debate?  

Obama's plan is to keep capital gains taxes for those making under 250k exactly where they are today, and to reduce or eliminate them for small business and euntrepeneurs. 

Why are you so terrified of the truth?  

And why are you so worried if Paris Hilton and ExxonMobil has to pay the same rate they paid during the prosperous 90s?   Your president started a trillion dollar war, and blew the surplus.  Money doesn't grow on trees, somebody has to pay for it.


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## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Article 15 said:


> Are you trying to sluff this video off again?
> 
> Dude ... it's obvious you don't know what you are talking about ... when I called your transparent bluff the other night you flubbed for a post or two then admitted you couldn't provide any kind of numbers to back up your assertion that the gov't would lose revenue with a capital gains tax increase to 28% ... and this was after RD pwn3d your ass when you tried to claim the tax burden chart posted didn't have capital gains included ... don't you remember learning that night that people making less than 250k wont see that increase? ... perhaps an educated adult from your side can take up your banner and lay out an actual arguement.



of course that chart didn't have the capital gains tax included, you can't predict what investments will do.  it's well known that raising the capital gains tax does not promote investing.  oh and what does investing do? it creates revenue as well as jobs.  if nobody invests, where does everything go? to china, because its cheap there.


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## dilloduck (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> of course that chart didn't have the capital gains tax included, you can't predict what investments will do.  it's well known that raising the capital gains tax does not promote investing.  oh and what does investing do? it creates revenue as well as jobs.  if nobody invests, where does everything go? to china, because its cheap there.



I'm afraid they won't believe it til it's too late.


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## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Do you Bush voters really feel like you have to lie to win an election or a message board debate?
> 
> Obama's plan is to keep capital gains taxes for those making under 250k exactly where they are today, and to reduce or eliminate them for small business and euntrepeneurs.
> 
> ...



maybe because i make over $250,000 a year.  maybe i have money in investments and pension.  maybe i worked for everything i have.  maybe i don't want to support people who *can* work but choose not to.  maybe because i have health insurance.  maybe because i didn't sign a mortgage i couldn't pay for.  maybe because i bought a car i could pay for.  

maybe because i didn't vote for bush, and i'm not voting for mccain.


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## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Of course not--the devil is all in the details. He's hoping all the starry eyed desperates won't ask for details. For instance--what federal programs does he intend to deem useless and wasteful ? That might be good to know before you vote for someone who does away with your job.



Politicians never go deep into policy wonk details in a 30 minute speech.  Reagan didn't, Clinton didn't Bush didn't.  Obama doesn't.  Speeches are for outlining broad polcies goals and priorities. 

You've had the last 12 months to go to Obama's website, if you _really_ wanted more detail.  There's about 300 pages of detailed policy proposals you can read. 

The fact that, for the last 12 months, you've chosen not to go to his website to read tells me you don't really care about the details.  You have no intention of voting for obama no matter what. 

That's classic concern trolling.


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## Red Dawn (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> maybe because i make over $250,000 a year.  maybe i have money in investments and pension.  maybe i worked for everything i have.  maybe i don't want to support people who *can* work but choose not to.  maybe because i have health insurance.  maybe because i didn't sign a mortgage i couldn't pay for.  maybe because i bought a car i could pay for.
> 
> maybe because i didn't vote for bush, and i'm not voting for mccain.




Are you telling me your annual income is over 250 thousand dollars a year?  Or, are you lying again?


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## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Do you Bush voters really feel like you have to lie to win an election or a message board debate?
> 
> Obama's plan is to keep capital gains taxes for those making under 250k exactly where they are today, and to reduce or eliminate them for small business and euntrepeneurs.
> 
> ...



Post of the year....


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## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Are you telling me your annual income is over 250 thousand dollars a year?  Or, are you lying again?



it sure is. what have i ever lied about?


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## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> is sure is. what have i ever lied about?



You posted three times tonight that there was no substance in Obama's speech.

And that was just tonight.


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## chapstic (Aug 29, 2008)

Kirk said:


> You posted three times tonight that there was no substance in Obama's speech.
> 
> And that was just tonight.



pretty words are not substance.


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## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Do you Bush voters really feel like you have to lie to win an election or a message board debate?
> 
> Obama's plan is to keep capital gains taxes for those making under 250k exactly where they are today, and to reduce or eliminate them for small business and euntrepeneurs.
> 
> ...



This is how they lie.  They say we'll raise everyones taxes thru capital gains, but they're counting 401k's, which don't pay capital gains taxes until you retire.

capital gains are what hedge fund managers pay taxes on.  this only hurts the rich.  but relax, they'll still be rich.

ps.  I say we tax us businesses that went overseas and if they don't move back, get some smart 40 somethings like obama and have them open a new business that will stay in america and pay americans a good wage for their labor.

just take healthcare off our corporations hands and they'll be able to pay more.


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## Inferno (Aug 29, 2008)

Ninja said:


> Trainwreck television.



Wait till next week. We can listen to lies and fear speeches. or If the the administration we can hear true confessions and watch them all be arrested that would be a nice change of pace.


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## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> This is how they lie.  They say we'll raise everyones taxes thru capital gains, but they're counting 401k's, which don't pay capital gains taxes until you retire.
> 
> capital gains are what hedge fund managers pay taxes on.  this only hurts the rich.  but relax, they'll still be rich.
> 
> ...



What the flying monkeys of the blogosphere don't realize is that if you elect a brilliant man like Obama, we will all be better off in the end. 

If you elect a mildly retarded Bush or a 72 year old McCain on 5 different medications, we will end up in trouble.


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## Chris (Aug 29, 2008)

Inferno said:


> Wait till next week. We can listen to lies and fear speeches. or If the the administration we can hear true confessions and watch them all be arrested that would be a nice change of pace.



The Republicans need a brown man with facial hair to scare the white voters(Willie Horton, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein). 

I know there's one out there somewhere.

Rev. Wright, maybe?


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## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

chapstic said:


> it sure is. what have i ever lied about?



Now you should be voting gop.  But even my bro isn't  voting mccain and he makes $400k.  the economy is so bad, even guys like that worry about their jobs.  plus they have families and neighbors who are suffering and they know the down sides to a struggling middle class.  crime, consumer spending.

the gop took away $5k from all of us to give it to you guys.  I want us to start getting the $5k back.  

Instead of you taking home $200, you'll take home $175.  we'll cry for you.


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## editec (Aug 29, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> Buchanon is a generally honest conservative, unlike the Cons on this thread who are concern trolling about how horrible Obama's speech allegedly was.


 

Ya' got that.

Let's remember, shall we, that when Pat started to get traction in his bid for the White House, the Neocons painted him as a NAZI sympathizer. 

He is one of the most penetrating political analysists I know of.

While I often disagree with him, he is a conservative, after all, I still respect him.

He says things that annoy people on both sides of the aisle, but things that truly_ need_ to be said.


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## sealybobo (Aug 29, 2008)

editec said:


> Ya' got that.
> 
> Let's remember, shall we, that when Pat started to get traction in his bid for the White House, the Neocons painted him as a NAZI sympathizer.
> 
> ...



Yea, I don't agree with his political phylosophy, but he does care about America.  If free markets/capitalism/deregulations aren't abused, the conservatives make some good points.  Pat admits the abuses have occured.  The Chaney's/Delay's/Abramoff's are I'm sure a huge disappointment to conservatives I'm sure.

Not enough to get them to vote Democratic, but you know.....


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