# Mother of 4 deported



## Slade3200

I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.  

She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.

I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.

Thoughts?


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## Hugo Furst

20 years too late


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## Slade3200

WillHaftawaite said:


> 20 years too late


I'll send you a tough guy award


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## Doc1

Oh well.


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## MaryL

Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.


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## Slade3200

WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?

Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


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## Vastator




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## Slade3200

MaryL said:


> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.


You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?


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## Pete7469




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## jillian

WillHaftawaite said:


> 20 years too late



she's more valuable than your white trash self.


but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.


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## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> Does this really sound just to you?



Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.

If only Thelma and Louise had had children.


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## Toddsterpatriot

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



*CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*

Crime doesn't pay.


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## ding

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


How are they all American citizens but her?


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## Slade3200

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this really sound just to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.
> 
> If only Thelma and Louise had had children.
Click to expand...

No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?


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## Pete7469

Slade3200 said:


> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?



No more sob stories, no more bullshit.

Fix the fucking border security issue, then we can talk about limited legal status for willful immigration law violation.

Until then I don't care how loud the wailing and gnashing of teeth gets. SOLVE THE MAIN PROBLEM FIRST.


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## CrusaderFrank

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



It's awful.   Trump should keep the hardworking, America loving Mexicans and deport the Berkeley Marxist Progressives


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## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


I'll answer..
 No. I have never put myself in that position. I have never tried to sneak across a sovereign nations border, then attempted to set up residence, while leeching off of the denizens of that nation.

Zero tolerance...


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## Old Yeller

Something don't smell right?  A bit fishy?  If she or husband was already working, kids in school, no crimes, warrants, welfare/ SSDI fraud etc.  Keep em?


Something is not being told ...... I suspect.


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## MarathonMike

How many stories like this do you suppose went unnoticed when the Deporter-In-Chief Obama was in full gear throwing out hundreds of thousands per year?  The only reason you all are fired up is CNN cherry picked the story now that Trump is in charge.


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## Slade3200

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*
> 
> Crime doesn't pay.
Click to expand...

Thanks for revealing how a simple brain works. Read the first sentence and last sentence and you got it all figured out... way to go!


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## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



This is an old story.


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## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> What law was she breaking?



For one thing, by her own admission, she's here on a fake visa.  She had 20 years to sort out her immigration status.  She chose instead to ignore it and hope the issue goes away.  Not a good strategy when dealing with something as serious as immigration fraud.  "But they told me I could stay on my fake passport" is not a very good defence.


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## Hugo Furst

jillian said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
Click to expand...




jillian said:


> she's more valuable than your white trash self.


How do  you figure?


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## bripat9643

jillian said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
Click to expand...

Of what value is she to me?


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## Slade3200

ding said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they all American citizens but her?
Click to expand...

I don't have the background of her family members so I'll have to assume her husband and mother immigrated legally and her children where born here. She wasn't able to get another visa after her violation 20 years ago but was allowed to stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for the past 18 years.

Partisanship aside, there is something wrong here on a human level, wouldn't you agree?


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## Vastator

What's the big deal? The filthy [loser] accomplished her nefarious mission. Sneak into our country in order to [drop ]  her [anchor] babies thus securing them a better future. I wish we could kick her kids out too. I'll gotten gains, and such


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## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


It didn't just "happen," like a meteor strike.  She caused it.


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## Toddsterpatriot

Slade3200 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*
> 
> Crime doesn't pay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for revealing how a simple brain works. Read the first sentence and last sentence and you got it all figured out... way to go!
Click to expand...


Came here illegally.....now get out.


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## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this really sound just to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.
> 
> If only Thelma and Louise had had children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?
Click to expand...

She entered the country without a visa.


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## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?



To my knowledge, no one in my family has snuck into the country.

Ya break the law, you pay the penalty.

She should have paid the penalty 20 years ago


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## Slade3200

Vastator said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer..
> No. I have never put myself in that position. I have never tried to sneak across a sovereign nations border, then attempted to set up residence, while leeching off of the denizens of that nation.
> 
> Zero tolerance...
Click to expand...

Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart. Again, ICE told her should could stay as long as she checks in which she did for 18 years.  She did make a mistake 20 years ago trying to use a fake visa.  Do you really think the way this situation played out is right?


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## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they all American citizens but her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have the background of her family members so I'll have to assume her husband and mother immigrated legally and her children where born here. She wasn't able to get another visa after her violation 20 years ago but was allowed to stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for the past 18 years.
> 
> Partisanship aside, there is something wrong here on a human level, wouldn't you agree?
Click to expand...


The problem here is that she broke the law.  Now she's whining because someone finally decided to enforce it.


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## TooTall

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



She is still here.  Get a free government paid lawyer and apply for citizenship.


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## ding

Slade3200 said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they all American citizens but her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have the background of her family members so I'll have to assume her husband and mother immigrated legally and her children where born here. She wasn't able to get another visa after her violation 20 years ago but was allowed to stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for the past 18 years.
> 
> Partisanship aside, there is something wrong here on a human level, wouldn't you agree?
Click to expand...

Sure, I think the problem is that the illegal alien problem was allowed to become a problem and she was caught in the crossfire.  That doesn't make it right, but it does explain why it is happening.


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## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer..
> No. I have never put myself in that position. I have never tried to sneak across a sovereign nations border, then attempted to set up residence, while leeching off of the denizens of that nation.
> 
> Zero tolerance...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart. Again, ICE told her should could stay as long as she checks in which she did for 18 years.  She did make a mistake 20 years ago trying to use a fake visa.  Do you really think the way this situation played out is right?
Click to expand...

If your mother robs a liquor store, then your family will be "ripped apart." Why is one case any more deserving of empathy than the other?


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## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this



So now love, not just children makes you exempt from all consequences?  You're creating quite a lovely world for yourself.


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## ding

Vastator said:


> What's the big deal? The filthy puta accomplished her nefarious mission. Sneak into our country in order to shit out her beaner babies thus securing them a better future. I wish we could kick her kids out too. I'll gotten gains, and such


Racist much?


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## MaryL

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...

Call me cynical or jaded. I really don't feel for illegals anymore. They have worn out their welcome.  After all the shit illegals have pulled on me, I can't feel sympathy for them any more than I would a conniving bunch of frauds trying to pull wool over your eyes. Victims my ass, people that hire illegals are the ones pushing this. Real immigrants aren't the ones pushing legitimizing illegals.


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## Slade3200

Old Yeller said:


> Something don't smell right?  A bit fishy?  If she or husband was already working, kids in school, no crimes, warrants, welfare/ SSDI fraud etc.  Keep em?
> 
> 
> Something is not being told ...... I suspect.


Maybe you're right, you've seen what i've seen. One thing does seem pretty apparent though, she doesn't strike me as a violent criminal and her being deported seems to do more harm than good. But, it is a story I saw from the media so have to take it with a grain of salt.


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## Slade3200

MarathonMike said:


> How many stories like this do you suppose went unnoticed when the Deporter-In-Chief Obama was in full gear throwing out hundreds of thousands per year?  The only reason you all are fired up is CNN cherry picked the story now that Trump is in charge.


I'd be upset seeing this story no matter who was president and I'd try to spread it so we can get some action that can usefully address this problem. I see no reason why a person like this lady can't get a path to legal status or citizenship.


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## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer..
> No. I have never put myself in that position. I have never tried to sneak across a sovereign nations border, then attempted to set up residence, while leeching off of the denizens of that nation.
> 
> Zero tolerance...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart. Again, ICE told her should could stay as long as she checks in which she did for 18 years.  She did make a mistake 20 years ago trying to use a fake visa.  Do you really think the way this situation played out is right?
Click to expand...

Yes. I do. If I murdered someone; then got away with it for 20 years all the while becoming a productive member of society; should I not have to face justice? What about the family of the victim?
Well in this case; my family, and my countryman are the victim; and we want justice! Look at the damage she has caused already. Now she bred inside our borders, and due to misuse of the law, her kids are labled American. She's getting off easy.


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## Slade3200

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What law was she breaking?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one thing, by her own admission, she's here on a fake visa.  She had 20 years to sort out her immigration status.  She chose instead to ignore it and hope the issue goes away.  Not a good strategy when dealing with something as serious as immigration fraud.  "But they told me I could stay on my fake passport" is not a very good defence.
Click to expand...

You obvously didn't watch the story or read my OP or many comments.  She broke the law 20 years ago, but then complied with ICE and checked in with them twice a year for 18 years.  The video shows her voluntarily going to ICE to check in. She didn't get caught doing anything.


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## Rob37

We used to do those stings where the dead beats who owed back child support would receive a telephone call telling them they had won a prize and they had to go to a certain location to pick it up. Then, when they showed up the police would take them into custody.  They had to sit in jail for contempt until they could come up with enough money to purge their contempt. The money, of course, would go to the kids' custodian. 

Do you get where I am going with this? If we announce a big 24 hr amnesty plan contingent upon the illegals coming forward and registering at certain locations, then we could bust a bunch of these rotten invaders and deport them. 


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## Slade3200

Vastator said:


> What's the big deal? The filthy [loser] accomplished her nefarious mission. Sneak into our country in order to [drop] out her [anchor] babies thus securing them a better future. I wish we could kick her kids out too. I'll gotten gains, and such


You can piss off to another thread and spread your filth. People like you disgust me.

Slade3200 and Vastator 
Okay to drop the racial slurs? but keep the content and meaning ( minus the meanness) . Vastator if we are saying ppl should respect the people of a country that's invited them as guests, let's show respect here. Slade if we want inclusion of diversity let's show some tolerance and forgiveness, not booting ppl out if your point is to give people a chance to assimilate. Fair?


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## S.J.

She violated our immigration laws.  Has she been violating our election laws as well and voting in our elections?


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## Slade3200

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*
> 
> Crime doesn't pay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for revealing how a simple brain works. Read the first sentence and last sentence and you got it all figured out... way to go!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Came here illegally.....now get out.
Click to expand...

Lets be honest... She came here illegally, she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year, she did so for 18 years, she now has a life and family, she is now being deported after a voluntary check in with ICE.

That sits right with you?


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this really sound just to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.
> 
> If only Thelma and Louise had had children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She entered the country without a visa.
Click to expand...

20 years ago you dumbass, you're skipping what happened for the past 18 years. What is wrong with you?


----------



## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> You obvously didn't watch the story or read my OP or many comments.  She broke the law 20 years ago, but then complied with ICE and checked in with them twice a year for 18 years.  The video shows her voluntarily going to ICE to check in. She didn't get caught doing anything.



I'll need a judges ruling on this ... she 'claims' to have got permission to stay from ICE.  With whom did she talk?  Record of the call?  You'd be surprised just how many times I hear that in my job -- "But I swear!  Another officer told me it was alright to drive with an open whisky bottle in my car"


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the big deal? The filthy puta accomplished her nefarious mission. Sneak into our country in order to shit out her beaner babies thus securing them a better future. I wish we could kick her kids out too. I'll gotten gains, and such
> 
> 
> 
> You can piss off to another thread and spread your filth. People like you disgust me.
Click to expand...

Nah. I'll stay. Filthy traitorous backstabbers like you; who would sell out our nation, and my children's birthright, for a sob story make me sick. Traitors should swing.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this really sound just to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.
> 
> If only Thelma and Louise had had children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She entered the country without a visa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 20 years ago you dumbass, you're skipping what happened for the past 18 years. What is wrong with you?
Click to expand...

What happened for the last 20 years is that open borders politicians declined to enforce the law.


----------



## Rob37

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.


----------



## Slade3200

ding said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they all American citizens but her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have the background of her family members so I'll have to assume her husband and mother immigrated legally and her children where born here. She wasn't able to get another visa after her violation 20 years ago but was allowed to stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for the past 18 years.
> 
> Partisanship aside, there is something wrong here on a human level, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, I think the problem is that the illegal alien problem was allowed to become a problem and she was caught in the crossfire.  That doesn't make it right, but it does explain why it is happening.
Click to expand...

I agree it is a huge problem that many (some in this thread) try and ignorantly simplify without considering the scope of the problem and real life situation. Now we are at a point where we are trying to deal with it and stories like this need to be considered because I think most good hearted people would see this story and think that something is wrong with how this was handled.


----------



## bripat9643

Rob37 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
Click to expand...

If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.


----------



## heil hitler

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



wwwwwwaaaaa hahahahahahaha....whyyyyyy??!!!?!? aaaawwwwwwwww waaaaaaaaaaa!!!! booooo hoooo hoooo hooooo!!!!!!.
Spare me...GTFO! Now! Get out!


----------



## Hugo Furst

Sounds like she's been on parole for the last 18-20 years.

and something happened to cause them to revoke her parole


----------



## SassyIrishLass

Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they all American citizens but her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have the background of her family members so I'll have to assume her husband and mother immigrated legally and her children where born here. She wasn't able to get another visa after her violation 20 years ago but was allowed to stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for the past 18 years.
> 
> Partisanship aside, there is something wrong here on a human level, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, I think the problem is that the illegal alien problem was allowed to become a problem and she was caught in the crossfire.  That doesn't make it right, but it does explain why it is happening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree it is a huge problem that many (some in this thread) try and ignorantly simplify without considering the scope of the problem and real life situation. Now we are at a point where we are trying to deal with it and stories like this need to be considered because I think most good hearted people would see this story and think that something is wrong with how this was handled.
Click to expand...

We're not simplifying a thing.  Giving everyone who broke the law a free pass is simplifying things.  I think her case will provide a good object lesson for those who are considering entering the country illegally.


----------



## Vastator

heil hitler said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wwwwwwaaaaa hahahahahahaha....whyyyyyy??!!!?!? aaaawwwwwwwww waaaaaaaaaaa!!!! booooo hoooo hoooo hooooo!!!!!!.
> Spare me...GTFO! Now! Get out!
Click to expand...

Welcome back Cultsmasher! I wondered when you'd be back.


----------



## Slade3200

S.J. said:


> She violated our immigration laws.  Has she been violating our election laws as well and voting in our elections?


She violated the law 20 years ago then complied for the last 18. Got no clue about the voting.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this really sound just to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.
> 
> If only Thelma and Louise had had children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She entered the country without a visa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 20 years ago you dumbass, you're skipping what happened for the past 18 years. What is wrong with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened for the last 20 years is that open borders politicians declined to enforce the law.
Click to expand...

She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?


----------



## Slade3200

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You obvously didn't watch the story or read my OP or many comments.  She broke the law 20 years ago, but then complied with ICE and checked in with them twice a year for 18 years.  The video shows her voluntarily going to ICE to check in. She didn't get caught doing anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll need a judges ruling on this ... she 'claims' to have got permission to stay from ICE.  With whom did she talk?  Record of the call?  You'd be surprised just how many times I hear that in my job -- "But I swear!  Another officer told me it was alright to drive with an open whisky bottle in my car"
Click to expand...

The video in the OP is documenting her driving from her house and walking into ICE to check in. They told her she was good for another year and then she left and was called back in and told she was being deported in July.


----------



## S.J.

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> She violated our immigration laws.  Has she been violating our election laws as well and voting in our elections?
> 
> 
> 
> She violated the law 20 years ago then complied for the last 18. Got no clue about the voting.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if she was allowed to slide before.  That was then, this is now.


----------



## Slade3200

Rob37 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
Click to expand...

She tried to and they wouldn't let her because of the visa violation. But she was told that she could stay here if she checked in with ICE twice a year, which she did for 18 years.  This is the 20th time i've typed this fact because you all keep ignoring it. But i'll keep typing if because its the whole point of whats fucked up about this situation


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.
> 
> If only Thelma and Louise had had children.
> 
> 
> 
> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She entered the country without a visa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 20 years ago you dumbass, you're skipping what happened for the past 18 years. What is wrong with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened for the last 20 years is that open borders politicians declined to enforce the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...

I understand that some open-borders douche bag politicians refused to enforce the law.  If you want to blame someone, blame them.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
Click to expand...

You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.  

The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?


----------



## Slade3200

heil hitler said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wwwwwwaaaaa hahahahahahaha....whyyyyyy??!!!?!? aaaawwwwwwwww waaaaaaaaaaa!!!! booooo hoooo hoooo hooooo!!!!!!.
> Spare me...GTFO! Now! Get out!
Click to expand...

It's my thread, beat it


----------



## Slade3200

SassyIrishLass said:


> Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?


She did try, they wouldn't let her because of the visa violation. They told her she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years.


----------



## Slade3200

S.J. said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> She violated our immigration laws.  Has she been violating our election laws as well and voting in our elections?
> 
> 
> 
> She violated the law 20 years ago then complied for the last 18. Got no clue about the voting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't matter if she was allowed to slide before.  That was then, this is now.
Click to expand...

No shit... But it does matter to anybody with a heart, there is a family of American citizens losing their mother. There is something wrong with that.


----------



## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?



I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.  

I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally. 

If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...


What does "acknowledging the human side of this situation" entail?  Does that mean giving her a free pass?  Yeah, some fucked up things have happened with regard to immigration, but they all occurred under the policies you support.

If you don't believe our laws should be enforced, just admit it.


----------



## bripat9643

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
Click to expand...

Obama is the one who should be deported.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?
> 
> 
> 
> She entered the country without a visa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 20 years ago you dumbass, you're skipping what happened for the past 18 years. What is wrong with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened for the last 20 years is that open borders politicians declined to enforce the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand that some open-borders douche bag politicians refused to enforce the law.  If you want to blame someone, blame them.
Click to expand...

Fine I blame them, they were wrong... But because of what they have done and what she was instructed to do for the past 18 years, I can confidently say that treating this mother the way she is being treated is wrong. It also goes against what our leadership has said is their agenda. Violent criminals first? Apparently not


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> She violated our immigration laws.  Has she been violating our election laws as well and voting in our elections?
> 
> 
> 
> She violated the law 20 years ago then complied for the last 18. Got no clue about the voting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't matter if she was allowed to slide before.  That was then, this is now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No shit... But it does matter to anybody with a heart, there is a family of American citizens losing their mother. There is something wrong with that.
Click to expand...


Like what?


----------



## Slade3200

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
Click to expand...

So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?


----------



## pismoe

Pete7469 said:


>


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------   i love the Trebuchet  deportation system Pete ,


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She entered the country without a visa.
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years ago you dumbass, you're skipping what happened for the past 18 years. What is wrong with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What happened for the last 20 years is that open borders politicians declined to enforce the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand that some open-borders douche bag politicians refused to enforce the law.  If you want to blame someone, blame them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fine I blame them, they were wrong... But because of what they have done and what she was instructed to do for the past 18 years, I can confidently say that treating this mother the way she is being treated is wrong. It also goes against what our leadership has said is their agenda. Violent criminals first? Apparently not
Click to expand...


She broke the terms of her agreement.  I pay property tax every year.  If I stop paying them, they will come and take my house away.  If I'm a criminal on parole and the deal is I have to see my parole officer once a month, and I miss a couple of months, I'm going back to jail when they find me.


----------



## MaryL

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...

I might  feel sorry and regret , but this story  doesn't represent my experiences with illegals, all the crime and the harm they have done some how always gets under represented. It's amazing how that is either underplayed or made to be racist. It is NEITHER.  It's  just a fact, all the harm they bring.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does "acknowledging the human side of this situation" entail?  Does that mean giving her a free pass?  Yeah, some fucked up things have happened with regard to immigration, but they all occurred under the policies you support.
> 
> If you don't believe our laws should be enforced, just admit it.
Click to expand...

It means she has a life and a family including 4 children who have lived her their entire life.


----------



## Pete7469

pismoe said:


> Pete7469 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------   i love the Trebuchet  deportation system Pete ,
Click to expand...



It uses "green energy".


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> I get deporting violent criminals


I don't understand how you don't get deporting any and all illegal aliens. Only the left could embrace criminals and criminal activity.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...


That begs the question: if she was in this country for 20 years, why was she not working on getting a citizenship or a green card?  20 years and she supposedly reported to ICE twice a year?  There is something missing to this story that I don't understand.


----------



## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
Click to expand...


Seems to be working. You bought it. So did CNN.  

If she gets a sympathetic judge, she's on easy street.  She may even sue ICE.


----------



## Preacher

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


BUH BYE! Nothing is stopping her family from going with her!


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems to be working. You bought it. So did CNN.
> 
> If she gets a sympathetic judge, she's on easy street.  She may even sue ICE.
Click to expand...


You can't sue ICE for doing their job.


----------



## Pete7469

Slade3200 said:


> It means she has a life and a family including 4 children who have lived her their entire life.



She should not have subjected them to this sort of trauma.

She is a self absorbed willful violator of the law. If she cared about her children she wouldn't have waited 20 years to correct her mistake.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does "acknowledging the human side of this situation" entail?  Does that mean giving her a free pass?  Yeah, some fucked up things have happened with regard to immigration, but they all occurred under the policies you support.
> 
> If you don't believe our laws should be enforced, just admit it.
Click to expand...

I think we should do way better with our visa tracking and border enforcement, the wall is a waste. I also think we need to have a system to deal with millions of undocumented in our country and shipping them out is not a smart idea. They should all be able to register, pay taxes, and pay their dues to earn either legal status or citizenship... not hide in the shadows


----------



## fncceo

Ray From Cleveland said:


> You can't sue ICE for doing their job.



She's 'claiming' that for 20 years they didn't do their job.


----------



## Pete7469

bripat9643 said:


> Obama is the one who should be deported.



To the Sun


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

fncceo said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't sue ICE for doing their job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's 'claiming' that for 20 years they didn't do their job.
Click to expand...


So you think they can get sued because they started?


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...

I personally don't care what it makes me come off as. She's an interloper. An infiltrator. Due to misuse of the law our country granted her children citizenship. She doesn't even deserve that much. But she has it. Now we as a nation, bear the burden in whole, for better or worse, all of the consequences fostered by her desendants. Do you not realize she should be more than grateful? It's like robbing fort Knox and being allowed to keep the gold! Her line should have no slice of the American pie. Why? Because she stole it! That's why...


----------



## P@triot

jillian said:


> but then again, it would take a lowlife citizen to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant criminal.


As always, I had to correct jillian's propaganda-filled post.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years ago you dumbass, you're skipping what happened for the past 18 years. What is wrong with you?
> 
> 
> 
> What happened for the last 20 years is that open borders politicians declined to enforce the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand that some open-borders douche bag politicians refused to enforce the law.  If you want to blame someone, blame them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fine I blame them, they were wrong... But because of what they have done and what she was instructed to do for the past 18 years, I can confidently say that treating this mother the way she is being treated is wrong. It also goes against what our leadership has said is their agenda. Violent criminals first? Apparently not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She broke the terms of her agreement.  I pay property tax every year.  If I stop paying them, they will come and take my house away.  If I'm a criminal on parole and the deal is I have to see my parole officer once a month, and I miss a couple of months, I'm going back to jail when they find me.
Click to expand...

What terms did she break? She walked into ICE to check in like she has done for the past 18 years.


----------



## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



I'll make you a deal.  If she can prove that at anytime in the last 20 years she voted Republican... she can stay.


----------



## Slade3200

MaryL said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I might  feel sorry and regret , but this story  doesn't represent my experiences with illegals, all the crime and the harm they have done some how always gets under represented. It's amazing how that is either underplayed or made to be racist. It is NEITHER.  It's  just a fact, all the harm they bring.
Click to expand...

Trump is giving it a pretty big VOICE


----------



## expat_panama

MaryL said:


> ...Nobody is above the law...


There's really no way around it, if you do the crime you do the time.  When she gets back to Mexico she'll find that they_ really _don't mess around w/ those laws...





Slade3200 said:


> Does this really sound right to you?


No it doesn't.  We can bet there was a lot of exlanitory info left out and false statements inserted.   CNN has a really bad track record on this: 

Early November: Spike in Transgender Suicide Rates
November 22: The Tri-State Election Hacking Conspiracy Theory
December 1: The 27-Cent Foreclosure
January 20: The Great MLK Jr. Bust Controversy
January 20: The Nonexistent Climate Change Website
[from 16 Fake News Stories Reporters Have Run Since Trump Won ]​​​


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?


My family *wouldn't* violate the *law*, Slade3200. And if we did because it was absolutely necessary for our survival, we would completely and totally accept the responsibility that came with our actions. That's how grown adults function.


----------



## fncceo

Ray From Cleveland said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't sue ICE for doing their job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's 'claiming' that for 20 years they didn't do their job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think they can get sued because they started?
Click to expand...


I think she can TRY.  Dumber lawsuits have been filed and won. 

After all, this entire exercise of hers is all about a pay cheque.


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> She violated our immigration laws.  Has she been violating our election laws as well and voting in our elections?
> 
> 
> 
> She violated the law 20 years ago then complied for the last 18. Got no clue about the voting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't matter if she was allowed to slide before.  That was then, this is now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No shit... But it does matter to anybody with a heart, there is a family of American citizens losing their mother. There is something wrong with that.
Click to expand...

Yes there is. But not what you think. Misuse of the law that was established to give citizenship to the slaves, has been applied to infiltrators. There is indeed, something very wrong with that.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how you don't get deporting any and all illegal aliens. Only the left could embrace criminals and criminal activity.
Click to expand...

I don't see this lady as a criminal and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That begs the question: if she was in this country for 20 years, why was she not working on getting a citizenship or a green card?  20 years and she supposedly reported to ICE twice a year?  There is something missing to this story that I don't understand.
Click to expand...

She tried and they wouldn't give it to her because of her visa violation. she was told to check in with ICE


----------



## Gracie

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*
> 
> Crime doesn't pay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for revealing how a simple brain works. Read the first sentence and last sentence and you got it all figured out... way to go!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Came here illegally.....now get out.
Click to expand...

This ^


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


Give one second to look at my nation with empathy Slade3200. The fact that our limited amount of currency in circulation, our limited food supply, our limited healthcare providers, our limited education system, etc. *cannot* handle an unlimited number of criminals breaking into our nation because they are encouraged to do so by disingenuous left-wingers with an agenda.

"The first lesson of economics is *scarcity*: *there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it*. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics." - Thomas Sowell


----------



## Slade3200

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems to be working. You bought it. So did CNN.
> 
> If she gets a sympathetic judge, she's on easy street.  She may even sue ICE.
Click to expand...

Why are you so convinced that this story is a lie? Is it really that far fetched?  What if it is all true?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

fncceo said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll make you a deal.  If she can prove that at anytime in the last 20 years she voted Republican... she can stay.
Click to expand...


If she ever voted Republican, even the Democrats will back up her deportation.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> *I don't see this lady as a criminal* and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her


That's a distinction you don't get to make my friend. Ted Bundy would say that he doesn't see Richard Rimarez as a criminal. But thankfully we don't listen to Ted Bundy. When you break the law (and she _did_), you're a criminal. Period.


----------



## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> What if it is all true?



That's for a judge to decide ... not you, not ICE, not even sacred CNN.  That's how our system works.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> 
> 
> My family *wouldn't* violate the *law*, Slade3200. And if we did because it was absolutely necessary for our survival, we would completely and totally accept the responsibility that came with our actions. That's how grown adults function.
Click to expand...

Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter.  She violated the law 20 years ago but then complied with ICE for the past 18 years. If that sounds like justice to you then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years.


So lets be completely *honest* for a moment. Who is to blame for all of this? Democrats. As always. 20 years ago it was Bill Clinton who was sitting in the Oval Office and setting policy for the Executive Branch. Had they sent her ass back like they should have, there would've been *no* problems. None. But they make her _think_ she can stay. Fast forward to when a Republican is sitting in the White House actually doing the right thing and enforcing the law and this simple story becomes a tragedy.

Sorry - but this woman has no one to blame but herself and the idiot Dumbocrats who violated the law. They didn't give her legal status and they didn't deport her. Instead, they gave her a false sense of security and it caught up with her.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how you don't get deporting any and all illegal aliens. Only the left could embrace criminals and criminal activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see this lady as a criminal and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. _*I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her*_
Click to expand...


Okay, the reason her family is being broken up  is because we screwed up years ago by letting her stay in the  first place.  You keep holding Trump to this promise that we would deport the troublemakers and leave all the other  illegals alone. 

Then when some of these non-trouble illegals here today have kids, and in  20 years, we deport them, we are once again heartless. 

So  to avoid this situation  in  the future, perhaps it's best we deport all illegals now, and then in  20 years, we won't have to feel bad about breaking up these  families.  They will have families in their own  country and can live together until they die.


----------



## MaryL

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> Well, I was on  jury that supposedly  "ripped apart an illegal alien family", like say divorce ... The asshole illegal alien hurt an another illegal alien. DAMN. The irony of this, we found the  moron  guilty  and after serving his  sentence, he will be deported  to Mexico. His marriage  status had nothing to do with it. It's a penalty of violating immigration law. Pain pure and simple
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does "acknowledging the human side of this situation" entail?  Does that mean giving her a free pass?  Yeah, some fucked up things have happened with regard to immigration, but they all occurred under the policies you support.
> 
> If you don't believe our laws should be enforced, just admit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It means she has a life and a family including 4 children who have lived her their entire life.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand how you don't get deporting any and all illegal aliens. Only the left could embrace criminals and criminal activity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see this lady as a criminal and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her
Click to expand...

...justice for all.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> 
> 
> My family *wouldn't* violate the *law*, Slade3200. And if we did because it was absolutely necessary for our survival, we would completely and totally accept the responsibility that came with our actions. That's how grown adults function.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter.  She violated the law 20 years ago but then complied with ICE for the past 18 years. If that sounds like justice to you then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.
Click to expand...


"Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter. "

I could make the same plea for convicts I knew while a corrections officer.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> Give one second to look at my nation with empathy Slade3200. The fact that our limited amount of currency in circulation, our limited food supply, our limited healthcare providers, our limited education system, etc. *cannot* handle an unlimited number of criminals breaking into our nation because they are encouraged to do so by disingenuous left-wingers with an agenda.
> 
> "The first lesson of economics is *scarcity*: *there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it*. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics." - Thomas Sowell
Click to expand...

I'm all for smarter and better border enforcement. I"m not an open borders person. I'm all for deporting criminals. I'm not for deporting people like this lady and many others who are hear. I think they should have the opportunity to register for legal status. Make their path longer and harder than those who are waiting in line the legal way, but the problem needs a common sense solution. You can't kick out 10's of millions of people, its not feasible or operationally possible. Keeping them in limbo like we are doing now is a horrible idea as well and not effective.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter.  She violated the law 20 years ago but then complied with ICE for the past 18 years. If that sounds like justice to you then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.


Guess what brother - neither Bernie Madoff's wife or his children violated the law. So by your own position, they should be entitled to keep his entire wealth and live high in the sky. Yet every single one of you left-wingers lost your freaking minds about it and demanded that his assets be confiscated. They were, the wife and children were kicked out of their home and lost most of everything they owned. _Oops_.

And guess what else? Neither the Green River Killer's wife or children were guilty of _anything_. But they too lost a husband and a father when he was sent off to prison (where he belongs). I don't hear you advocating for his freedom for the sake of his wife and children.

Guess what chief? *Criminals* who make bad decisions negatively impact their friends and families. The justice system doesn't give a shit - nor should it. The justice system's job is to impartially enforce the *law*. Next?


----------



## MaryL

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


Well, I was on jury that supposedly "ripped apart an illegal alien family", like say divorce ... The asshole illegal alien hurt an another illegal alien. DAMN. The irony of this, we found the moron guilty and after serving his sentence, he will be deported to Mexico. His marriage status had nothing to do with it. It's a penalty of violating immigration law. Pain pure and simple


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't see this lady as a criminal* and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her
> 
> 
> 
> That's a distinction you don't get to make my friend. Ted Bundy would say that he doesn't see Richard Rimarez as a criminal. But thankfully we don't listen to Ted Bundy. When you break the law (and she _did_), you're a criminal. Period.
Click to expand...

I had a fake ID when I was in high school, so I guess her and I are both criminals.


----------



## S.J.

Are we gonna have to go through this crap every time an illegal is deported?  What upsets the left about this is that they're losing a lot of votes...Illegal votes, but votes nonetheless.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't see this lady as a criminal* and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her
> 
> 
> 
> That's a distinction you don't get to make my friend. Ted Bundy would say that he doesn't see Richard Rimarez as a criminal. But thankfully we don't listen to Ted Bundy. When you break the law (and she _did_), you're a criminal. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had a fake ID when I was in high school, so I guess her and I are both criminals.
Click to expand...


You didn't get caught.  If you were going to bars with a fake ID, and the cops busted you, you would have went to jail and then to court.


----------



## emilynghiem

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't just "happen," like a meteor strike.  She caused it.
Click to expand...

Dear bripat9643 and Slade3200
I agree with bripat that each adult must take legal responsibility for their own actions and consequences this imposes on their kids and the public / taxpayers. I also sympathize with what Slade is saying about people like this woman taking whatever avenues are offered to get by . What I would add is allowing and enforcing ways for Sympathizers to pay the difference, instead of imposing this on others without choice in who deserves support by which groups. If we set up sponsorships, everyone can help who wants to help, especially those who preach this should be provided. Why not set up programs along the border for workers and migrants to enroll, and build campus cities where resources can be organized for sustainable business and community development? Isn't that what everyone wants , a safe secure border where people can access opportunities without breaking any laws? So why not invest in business and educational complexes along the border that can meet the demands and reduce criminal trafficking?

There are ways to satisfy both sides on these issues, with financial accountability for the costs of decisions and any penalties or restituion owed for violations or debts incurred, and without compromising either side. Its not either or, one side over the other, but creating solutions that protects the beliefs and interests of all the people affected equally.

We set our goal on equal protection and representation of interests, and then we can organize the resources as needed for ppl to fulfill their objectives. We have plenty of resources we are already spending. Why not use the resources we have to invest in solutions and quit losing and wasting them on problems going in circles costing us more and more.

Www.earnedamnesty.org

The right solutions that can unite us will cost us less than the problems dividing us. That's how we can tell when we're on the right track.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


Hank Williams Jr - Tear In My Beer (Official Music Video) - YouTube


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't see this lady as a criminal* and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her
> 
> 
> 
> That's a distinction you don't get to make my friend. Ted Bundy would say that he doesn't see Richard Rimarez as a criminal. But thankfully we don't listen to Ted Bundy. When you break the law (and she _did_), you're a criminal. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had a fake ID when I was in high school, so I guess her and I are both criminals.
Click to expand...

Is anyone here advocating to not prosecute people for using fake IDs?


----------



## P@triot

A word of advice to all of you left-wingers who can't defend your position with facts, or rational thought, or reason, etc. : the bleeding heart schtick will *never* work with us. We're too educated and informed. We recognize that you're resorting to something so silly because you can't make a reasonable case for your position. You are wasting your time.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't see this lady as a criminal* and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her
> 
> 
> 
> That's a distinction you don't get to make my friend. Ted Bundy would say that he doesn't see Richard Rimarez as a criminal. But thankfully we don't listen to Ted Bundy. When you break the law (and she _did_), you're a criminal. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had a fake ID when I was in high school, so I guess her and I are both criminals.
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact - you are, brother. Literally.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case: 

She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.

Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.

I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!

If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.

So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.

Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...


----------



## S.J.

Slade3200 said:


> I had a fake ID when I was in high school, so I guess her and I are both criminals.


Yes.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> I don't see this lady as a criminal and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her.


The damage to her family is _her_ fault. What kind of selfish **** has children in a nation where she is *not* a citizen and *not* there legally?!? First she violates the law, and then she selfishly has children. And for some bizarre reason, you want to absolve her of all responsibility (which is the typical MO of the left). You people always want to absolve the individual of complete responsibility and make it the responsibility of society.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter.  She violated the law 20 years ago but then complied with ICE for the past 18 years. If that sounds like justice to you then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what brother - neither Bernie Madoff's wife or his children violated the law. So by your own position, they should be entitled to keep his entire wealth and live high in the sky. Yet every single one of you left-wingers lost your freaking minds about it and demanded that his assets be confiscated. They were, the wife and children were kicked out of their home and lost most of everything they owned. _Oops_.
> 
> And guess what else? Neither the Green River Killer's wife or children were guilty of _anything_. But they too lost a husband and a father when he was sent off to prison (where he belongs). I don't hear you advocating for his freedom for the sake of his wife and children.
> 
> Guess what chief? *Criminals* who make bad decisions negatively impact their friends and families. The justice system doesn't give a shit - nor should it. The justice system's job is to impartially enforce the *law*. Next?
Click to expand...

You're smart enough to know what a false equivalence is right? Don't insult my intelligence by using them on me.


----------



## Slade3200

MaryL said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I was on jury that supposedly "ripped apart an illegal alien family", like say divorce ... The asshole illegal alien hurt an another illegal alien. DAMN. The irony of this, we found the moron guilty and after serving his sentence, he will be deported to Mexico. His marriage status had nothing to do with it. It's a penalty of violating immigration law. Pain pure and simple
Click to expand...

Thats wonderful and totally different than this situation, but thanks for sharing your story


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter.  She violated the law 20 years ago but then complied with ICE for the past 18 years. If that sounds like justice to you then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what brother - neither Bernie Madoff's wife or his children violated the law. So by your own position, they should be entitled to keep his entire wealth and live high in the sky. Yet every single one of you left-wingers lost your freaking minds about it and demanded that his assets be confiscated. They were, the wife and children were kicked out of their home and lost most of everything they owned. _Oops_.
> 
> And guess what else? Neither the Green River Killer's wife or children were guilty of _anything_. But they too lost a husband and a father when he was sent off to prison (where he belongs). I don't hear you advocating for his freedom for the sake of his wife and children.
> 
> Guess what chief? *Criminals* who make bad decisions negatively impact their friends and families. The justice system doesn't give a shit - nor should it. The justice system's job is to impartially enforce the *law*. Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're smart enough to know what a false equivalence is right? Don't insult my intelligence by using them on me.
Click to expand...

Left you speechless? I understand. Nobody would have a rational response to my post. Nobody could. It's impossible. In sports terms, my post was "the dagger". It ended the debate.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> Thats wonderful and totally different than this situation, but thanks for sharing your story


_Every_ situation is different from another, genius. Ted Bundy's situation was completely different from Jeffery Dahmer's. What in the _hell_ kind of defense is that?!?


----------



## Slade3200

S.J. said:


> Are we gonna have to go through this crap every time an illegal is deported?  What upsets the left about this is that they're losing a lot of votes...Illegal votes, but votes nonetheless.


I didn't vote for Hillary so I really don't give a shit about the partisan spin... I just want somebody smart, competent and trustworthy in the whitehouse.


----------



## Godboy

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


What kind of shitty family wouldnt go with her? They are very selfish people.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> I didn't vote for Hillary so I really don't give a shit about the partisan spin... I just want somebody smart, competent and trustworthy in the whitehouse.


You wish is granted! Donald Trump is sitting in the White House and he is taking care of business in a BIG way!


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't see this lady as a criminal* and I think it is wrong for her to be deported. The damage it does to her family and community is much worse that whatever is gained be deporting her. I actually can't think of a thing that is gained by deporting her
> 
> 
> 
> That's a distinction you don't get to make my friend. Ted Bundy would say that he doesn't see Richard Rimarez as a criminal. But thankfully we don't listen to Ted Bundy. When you break the law (and she _did_), you're a criminal. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had a fake ID when I was in high school, so I guess her and I are both criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't get caught.  If you were going to bars with a fake ID, and the cops busted you, you would have went to jail and then to court.
Click to expand...

You're right, then I would have probably been put on probation and if I followed what I was instructed to do i sure as hell hope it wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass 18 years later.


----------



## S.J.

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we gonna have to go through this crap every time an illegal is deported?  What upsets the left about this is that they're losing a lot of votes...Illegal votes, but votes nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't vote for Hillary so I really don't give a shit about the partisan spin... I just want somebody smart, competent and trustworthy in the whitehouse.
Click to expand...

Translation:  I want somebody who will do what I want them to do, regardless of the law.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> You're right, then I would have probably been put on probation and if I followed what I was instructed to do i sure as hell hope it wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass 18 years later.


Right? And this is what happens when we don't obey/enforce the law. Had the Clinton Administration done the right thing 20 years ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. You're literally proving our point for us.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.


Just watch the video its a 2 minute story you can see for yourself... or google Francisca Lino , thats her name


----------



## Old Yeller

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.


Board is slow??  Link took forever?
18 years and speaks no English on camera? Huh? I was in Seoul for 5 weeks and learned 13 high words.  And I am unemployed useless human garbage.  She don't know anything?  And her Pastor and Lawyer was there?  Wth?  I don't have a lawyer!

Tablet or board barely useable.  Dont make me go to PC or I will go on posting binge!


----------



## Desperado

All this proves is that the United States has ignored its' own immigration laws for 20 years.
Times are a changing


----------



## ColonelAngus

Too bad for the children their mother broke the law.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Old Yeller said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.
> 
> 
> 
> Board is slow??  Link took forever?
> 18 years and speaks no English on camera? Huh? I was in Seoul for 5 weeks and learned 13 high words.  And I am unemployed useless human garbage.  She don't know anything?  And her Pastor and Lawyer was there?  Wth?  I don't have a lawyer!
> 
> Tablet or board barely useable.  Dont make me go to PC or I will go on posting binge!
Click to expand...


I just watched the story, and I noticed she didn't speak a word of English either.  HTF can you be so lazy to live in a country for 18 years and not learn the  language? 

This woman  stinks  all around, and I can't help but to believe that CNN is leaving out a  lot of facts.


----------



## Darkwind

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't sound right to Me.

Are you really that gullible?

They caught her with a fake visa but said that she could stay if she just checked in every couple of years.

Are you actually seriously thinking that is the truth?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.
> 
> 
> 
> Just watch the video its a 2 minute story you can see for yourself... or google Francisca Lino , thats her name
Click to expand...


I just watched the video and it made no mention how she was supporting all these kids.  Or did I miss something?


----------



## MaryL

I have a secret adoration of Mexican culture, art and food.  Mexicans are better than this, they really are. Excuses and lies, Mexicans are way better than that. But since I am American and a victim of Illegal aliens from Mexico, they are pissing us off here. Pretending this racist and all, sort of  alienates us, it really does.


----------



## Old Yeller

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we gonna have to go through this crap every time an illegal is deported?  What upsets the left about this is that they're losing a lot of votes...Illegal votes, but votes nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't vote for Hillary so I really don't give a shit about the partisan spin... I just want somebody smart, competent and trustworthy in the whitehouse.
Click to expand...


Beast "won" popular vote,lol!  But nobody voted fo it.


----------



## Slade3200

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
Click to expand...

I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.
Click to expand...


Our government should take responsibility but she shouldn't?  She came here using a fake VISA which precluded her from a green card or a chance at citizenship.  As an illegal, SHE  decided to have a family anyway unsure of her long-term future.  But that's our fault.


----------



## OKTexas

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law. She should have never been allowed to remain in the country in the first place. Knowing she was subject to deportation, she chose to have a family anyways, her choices put her in this situation, now she can accept the consequences.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter.  She violated the law 20 years ago but then complied with ICE for the past 18 years. If that sounds like justice to you then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what brother - neither Bernie Madoff's wife or his children violated the law. So by your own position, they should be entitled to keep his entire wealth and live high in the sky. Yet every single one of you left-wingers lost your freaking minds about it and demanded that his assets be confiscated. They were, the wife and children were kicked out of their home and lost most of everything they owned. _Oops_.
> 
> And guess what else? Neither the Green River Killer's wife or children were guilty of _anything_. But they too lost a husband and a father when he was sent off to prison (where he belongs). I don't hear you advocating for his freedom for the sake of his wife and children.
> 
> Guess what chief? *Criminals* who make bad decisions negatively impact their friends and families. The justice system doesn't give a shit - nor should it. The justice system's job is to impartially enforce the *law*. Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're smart enough to know what a false equivalence is right? Don't insult my intelligence by using them on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Left you speechless? I understand. Nobody would have a rational response to my post. Nobody could. It's impossible. In sports terms, my post was "the dagger". It ended the debate.
Click to expand...

Of course nobody would respond to your post because it wasn't a rational post. You were using false equivalencies. I thought you were insulting me by trying to pass them off as like arguments but after seeing you double down it appears you really believe them to be equal arguments.  Jokes on you buddy, just making yourself look stupid


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

Slade3200 said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.
Click to expand...


With checking in she was not going to stay. Over the years they were punting the decision to the next year, and now she has been told she need to leave.

You do understand if she was going to be granted a stay the government would have done it and not require her to report in.

So it will be sad for her family members but in the end she was not staying.


----------



## Slade3200

Godboy said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of shitty family wouldnt go with her? They are very selfish people.
Click to expand...

What kind of mother would let her children uproot their lives and diminish their opportunity for success?


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her children didn't violate the law and they are losing their mother. Her husband and mother didn't violate the law and they are losing a wife and daughter.  She violated the law 20 years ago but then complied with ICE for the past 18 years. If that sounds like justice to you then you have a warped sense of right and wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess what brother - neither Bernie Madoff's wife or his children violated the law. So by your own position, they should be entitled to keep his entire wealth and live high in the sky. Yet every single one of you left-wingers lost your freaking minds about it and demanded that his assets be confiscated. They were, the wife and children were kicked out of their home and lost most of everything they owned. _Oops_.
> 
> And guess what else? Neither the Green River Killer's wife or children were guilty of _anything_. But they too lost a husband and a father when he was sent off to prison (where he belongs). I don't hear you advocating for his freedom for the sake of his wife and children.
> 
> Guess what chief? *Criminals* who make bad decisions negatively impact their friends and families. The justice system doesn't give a shit - nor should it. The justice system's job is to impartially enforce the *law*. Next?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're smart enough to know what a false equivalence is right? Don't insult my intelligence by using them on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Left you speechless? I understand. Nobody would have a rational response to my post. Nobody could. It's impossible. In sports terms, my post was "the dagger". It ended the debate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course nobody would respond to your post because it wasn't a rational post. You were using false equivalencies. I thought you were insulting me by trying to pass them off as like arguments but after seeing you double down it appears you really believe them to be equal arguments.  Jokes on you buddy, just making yourself look stupid
Click to expand...

Still speechless? I completely understand. The fact that you didn't advocate for Bernie Madoff's family to keep ALL of the money as they were not complicit and committed no crimes, speaks volumes.

You're not consistent in your positions my friend. And that is a problem. You can't insist on A except when B is more advantageous to you.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't vote for Hillary so I really don't give a shit about the partisan spin... I just want somebody smart, competent and trustworthy in the whitehouse.
> 
> 
> 
> You wish is granted! Donald Trump is sitting in the White House and he is taking care of business in a BIG way!
Click to expand...

Trump doesn't fill any of those criteria... We had dumb and dumber running this year and Dumber won... jokes on us


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> What kind of mother would let her children uproot their lives and diminish their opportunity for success?


What kind of selfish **** would have children in a nation where she is not a citizen and not there legally? You keep skipping over that very important question.

By the way - what's with the false narrative about Mexico? Like people can't be successful if they come from Mexico?!? A little racist/xenophobic, are we???


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, then I would have probably been put on probation and if I followed what I was instructed to do i sure as hell hope it wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass 18 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> Right? And this is what happens when we don't obey/enforce the law. Had the Clinton Administration done the right thing 20 years ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. You're literally proving our point for us.
Click to expand...

Whats your point?


----------



## OKTexas

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...



What she did was a felony, she should have never been allowed to stay.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't vote for Hillary so I really don't give a shit about the partisan spin... I just want somebody smart, competent and trustworthy in the whitehouse.
> 
> 
> 
> You wish is granted! Donald Trump is sitting in the White House and he is taking care of business in a BIG way!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trump doesn't fill any of those criteria... We had dumb and dumber running this year and Dumber won... jokes on us
Click to expand...




Slade3200 said:


> Dumber won...


Dumber would have won in either case


----------



## Old Yeller

Link said 12 years?  Where did this 18 come from? no mention of job, income, welfare,  SSDI?  Who pays her lawyer to make "house calls"  wth? 

Lawyer makes sure to add "this would not happen under Obama".

This stinks all around.  Setup.  Shes probably been a Coyote? Not even in USA? (hence no english) ICE said no mas Senorita.


----------



## OKTexas

jillian said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
Click to expand...



She's not an immigrant, she is an illegal alien, immigrants do it the right way to start with.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.
> 
> 
> 
> Board is slow??  Link took forever?
> 18 years and speaks no English on camera? Huh? I was in Seoul for 5 weeks and learned 13 high words.  And I am unemployed useless human garbage.  She don't know anything?  And her Pastor and Lawyer was there?  Wth?  I don't have a lawyer!
> 
> Tablet or board barely useable.  Dont make me go to PC or I will go on posting binge!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just watched the story, and I noticed she didn't speak a word of English either.  HTF can you be so lazy to live in a country for 18 years and not learn the  language?
> 
> This woman  stinks  all around, and I can't help but to believe that CNN is leaving out a  lot of facts.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, I've seen enough lies in our media to take it all with a grain of salt.  But I also saw enough to show that she wan't a violent criminal and its very unlikely she poses a thread to our society.  There are many families sitting in the same situation as the one in the video.  The tough guy, kick em out attitude that many of you are pissing out there is just plain ugly.  I'm fine with enforcing the law at the border... But you have to be an idiot of you think you can kick 10+ million people out of the country and you'd have to be an even bigger idiot of you don't realize that serious reform needs to happen with our currently situation of undocumented immigrants


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Let me summarize: 

We have this woman who tried to use fake documents to illegally gain access to our country. 
In the 18 years she was here, it was too much trouble for her to learn at least some of our language. 
In spite of here uncertainty, she had FOUR kids anyway. 
Unless her husband has a hell of a good paying job where he has the ability to support a family of six, it's more than  likely our tax dollars are supporting this family. 
So then the question is, how are  we so heatless to show no empathy for her plight?????


----------



## Slade3200

Darkwind said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it doesn't sound right to Me.
> 
> Are you really that gullible?
> 
> They caught her with a fake visa but said that she could stay if she just checked in every couple of years.
> 
> Are you actually seriously thinking that is the truth?
Click to expand...

Thats the story... could be true could be false. I put the story on this thread and now we are discussing it. I guess we will put you in the fake news category.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.
> 
> 
> 
> Board is slow??  Link took forever?
> 18 years and speaks no English on camera? Huh? I was in Seoul for 5 weeks and learned 13 high words.  And I am unemployed useless human garbage.  She don't know anything?  And her Pastor and Lawyer was there?  Wth?  I don't have a lawyer!
> 
> Tablet or board barely useable.  Dont make me go to PC or I will go on posting binge!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just watched the story, and I noticed she didn't speak a word of English either.  HTF can you be so lazy to live in a country for 18 years and not learn the  language?
> 
> This woman  stinks  all around, and I can't help but to believe that CNN is leaving out a  lot of facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps, I've seen enough lies in our media to take it all with a grain of salt.  But I also saw enough to show that she wan't a violent criminal and its very unlikely she poses a thread to our society.  There are many families sitting in the same situation as the one in the video.  The tough guy, kick em out attitude that many of you are pissing out there is just plain ugly.  I'm fine with enforcing the law at the border... But you have to be an idiot of you think you can kick 10+ million people out of the country and you'd have to be an even bigger idiot of you don't realize that serious reform needs to happen with our currently situation of undocumented immigrants
Click to expand...


To my knowledge, we have no law or agreement that as long as you're not a violent criminal, you get to stay in this country illegally.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, then I would have probably been put on probation and if I followed what I was instructed to do i sure as hell hope it wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass 18 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> Right? And this is what happens when we don't obey/enforce the law. Had the Clinton Administration done the right thing 20 years ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. You're literally proving our point for us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats your point?
Click to expand...

The point is that your proving our point for us. You're advocating a return to the policies that created this mess in the first place. If we do the right thing now (deport her criminal ass), the problem is mitigated. If we allow her to stay (like the Clinton Administration did), we get more of this exact mess in the future.


----------



## Slade3200

MaryL said:


> I have a secret adoration of Mexican culture, art and food.  Mexicans are better than this, they really are. Excuses and lies, Mexicans are way better than that. But since I am American and a victim of Illegal aliens from Mexico, they are pissing us off here. Pretending this racist and all, sort of  alienates us, it really does.


I agree it does and it is fueled by wingnuts from BOTH the left and the right.  You hear how some of these posters act on this forum and its hard to not think they are being racists.  You see the lefties throwing out the race card all the time and that also fuels the divide. Its an ugly partisan game. Would be nice to just have an honest conversation about it.

I've conceded multiple times on this thread that I think its a good idea to have strong borders, enforce laws, improve our visa tracking system etc.  I haven't heard many opposers speak about this situation with much compassion or acknowledgement that something is wrong with this.  They all want to be tough guys.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our government should take responsibility but she shouldn't?  She came here using a fake VISA which precluded her from a green card or a chance at citizenship.  As an illegal, SHE  decided to have a family anyway unsure of her long-term future.  But that's our fault.
Click to expand...

I could type it for the 20th time but i'll try a different approach... Which element of the story did you leave out in your last statement?


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> I've conceded multiple times on this thread that I think its a good idea to have strong borders, *enforce laws*, improve our visa tracking system etc.


And yet all of a sudden, magically, you *don't* want to have the law enforced.


----------



## Slade3200

OKTexas said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law. She should have never been allowed to remain in the country in the first place. Knowing she was subject to deportation, she chose to have a family anyways, her choices put her in this situation, now she can accept the consequences.
Click to expand...

Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?


----------



## Slade3200

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With checking in she was not going to stay. Over the years they were punting the decision to the next year, and now she has been told she need to leave.
> 
> You do understand if she was going to be granted a stay the government would have done it and not require her to report in.
> 
> So it will be sad for her family members but in the end she was not staying.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure if it was President Clinton right now she would be happy at home with her family. Perhaps some day our politician will pull their heads out of their asses and pass a solution to this problem.  At some point people like this lady should have a pathway to legal status. But who knows what Trump will do, I could be wrong.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law*.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?
Click to expand...

Actually - that is not an opinion. That is a 100% *fact*. And no - literally _nobody_ understand your objections. Not even the fellow left-wingers who are advocating for the same thing. Do you know why? Because you're position is completely and totally irrational.

This is literally your position: "*I want the law enforced.....except when I don't want the law enforced*".


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?



Your opinion is that because we didn't get rid of her in the first place, it's our fault.  But let me tell you, she knew she was here illegally.  She knew if she had kids, she might have to leave them someday because she was here illegally.  

Yes, we did screw up, but she screwed up twice as bad.


----------



## Slade3200

OKTexas said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What she did was a felony, she should have never been allowed to stay.
Click to expand...

I'm curious... Do you think every kid in school with a fake ID should be charged with a felony?


----------



## MaryL

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...

I lived this, sorry.  It isn't right, no. Neither is all the stuff I have seen illegals subject me too, either. I have no idea were to go with all the wrongs illegals have done, either. Just put it out there and then they call it anecdotal . And so it goes...


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With checking in she was not going to stay. Over the years they were punting the decision to the next year, and now she has been told she need to leave.
> 
> You do understand if she was going to be granted a stay the government would have done it and not require her to report in.
> 
> So it will be sad for her family members but in the end she was not staying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure if it was President Clinton right now she would be happy at home with her family.
Click to expand...

What makes you think, that if Clinton were president, that she would have taken her kids, and returned to Mexico? I doubt it. I think she would try staying here much like now...


----------



## Slade3200

OKTexas said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She's not an immigrant, she is an illegal alien, immigrants do it the right way to start with.
Click to expand...

According to Ben Carson she is an immigrant ;-)


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Let me summarize:
> 
> We have this woman who tried to use fake documents to illegally gain access to our country.
> In the 18 years she was here, it was too much trouble for her to learn at least some of our language.
> In spite of here uncertainty, she had FOUR kids anyway.
> Unless her husband has a hell of a good paying job where he has the ability to support a family of six, it's more than  likely our tax dollars are supporting this family.
> So then the question is, how are  we so heatless to show no empathy for her plight?????


You're funny man... Way to paint a narrative, gotta give you points on creativity.  Next time you summarize a situation try using the facts presented, not your biased assumptions.


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

Slade3200 said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With checking in she was not going to stay. Over the years they were punting the decision to the next year, and now she has been told she need to leave.
> 
> You do understand if she was going to be granted a stay the government would have done it and not require her to report in.
> 
> So it will be sad for her family members but in the end she was not staying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm pretty sure if it was President Clinton right now she would be happy at home with her family. Perhaps some day our politician will pull their heads out of their asses and pass a solution to this problem.  At some point people like this lady should have a pathway to legal status. But who knows what Trump will do, I could be wrong.
Click to expand...


Bush did want something done, but nothing was ever done. Obama should have done something in his first year and nothing was done.

Trump is not going to offer any form of Immigration Reform.

As for her I doubt she would have been allow to stay because what she did to attempt to enter was illegal.

Clinton might have let her stay like Bush and Obama did but she is not President.


----------



## SassyIrishLass

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She's not an immigrant, she is an illegal alien, immigrants do it the right way to start with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to Ben Carson she is an immigrant ;-)
Click to expand...


True....but an illegal immigrant.

Sticky situation but the fact is she's illegal


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.
> 
> 
> 
> Board is slow??  Link took forever?
> 18 years and speaks no English on camera? Huh? I was in Seoul for 5 weeks and learned 13 high words.  And I am unemployed useless human garbage.  She don't know anything?  And her Pastor and Lawyer was there?  Wth?  I don't have a lawyer!
> 
> Tablet or board barely useable.  Dont make me go to PC or I will go on posting binge!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just watched the story, and I noticed she didn't speak a word of English either.  HTF can you be so lazy to live in a country for 18 years and not learn the  language?
> 
> This woman  stinks  all around, and I can't help but to believe that CNN is leaving out a  lot of facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps, I've seen enough lies in our media to take it all with a grain of salt.  But I also saw enough to show that she wan't a violent criminal and its very unlikely she poses a thread to our society.  There are many families sitting in the same situation as the one in the video.  The tough guy, kick em out attitude that many of you are pissing out there is just plain ugly.  I'm fine with enforcing the law at the border... But you have to be an idiot of you think you can kick 10+ million people out of the country and you'd have to be an even bigger idiot of you don't realize that serious reform needs to happen with our currently situation of undocumented immigrants
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To my knowledge, we have no law or agreement that as long as you're not a violent criminal, you get to stay in this country illegally.
Click to expand...

We have the statements from our leadership that say they are going after violent criminals and then we see stories like this.


----------



## OKTexas

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law. She should have never been allowed to remain in the country in the first place. Knowing she was subject to deportation, she chose to have a family anyways, her choices put her in this situation, now she can accept the consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?
Click to expand...



Feel free to feel anyway you want, logic and the law says she should have been deported 18 years ago when she reentered the country, she didn't have her family then. She knew she wasn't eligible, without a presidential pardon, for legal status. Why didn't she pursue one over the last 18 years, that covers 3 administrations? Like I said, her choices put her and her family in this position, bad choices bring bad consequences.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me summarize:
> 
> We have this woman who tried to use fake documents to illegally gain access to our country.
> In the 18 years she was here, it was too much trouble for her to learn at least some of our language.
> In spite of here uncertainty, she had FOUR kids anyway.
> Unless her husband has a hell of a good paying job where he has the ability to support a family of six, it's more than  likely our tax dollars are supporting this family.
> So then the question is, how are  we so heatless to show no empathy for her plight?????
> 
> 
> 
> You're funny man... Way to paint a narrative, gotta give you points on creativity.  Next time you summarize a situation try using the facts presented, not your biased assumptions.
Click to expand...


Outside of these kids being on some kind of public support, all I used were facts.  In Chicago, in order to support a family of six, you would have to be doing well into six figures in income.  

Now, is there anything on my list outside of welfare that was not a fact?


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, then I would have probably been put on probation and if I followed what I was instructed to do i sure as hell hope it wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass 18 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> Right? And this is what happens when we don't obey/enforce the law. Had the Clinton Administration done the right thing 20 years ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. You're literally proving our point for us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that your proving our point for us. You're advocating a return to the policies that created this mess in the first place. If we do the right thing now (deport her criminal ass), the problem is mitigated. If we allow her to stay (like the Clinton Administration did), we get more of this exact mess in the future.
Click to expand...

Lets try again... My point is that deporting this lady is messed up and not a smart way to deal with the immigration problem... What point are you trying to make?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


The problem is when it was first discovered she had used false documents to obtain the visa that brought her here, she should have been immediately deported and not allowed to hang around for 18 years.  Deporting her sends exactly the right policy message, if you enter the US illegally you will be deported, but she can always appeal this decision if she thinks her case deserves special consideration, so the policy is both firm and humane.


----------



## OKTexas

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What she did was a felony, she should have never been allowed to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious... Do you think every kid in school with a fake ID should be charged with a felony?
Click to expand...



What does the law say? It's a simple concept, you enforce the law or you don't.


----------



## OKTexas

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> She's not an immigrant, she is an illegal alien, immigrants do it the right way to start with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to Ben Carson she is an immigrant ;-)
Click to expand...


According to the LAW she's an illegal alien.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've conceded multiple times on this thread that I think its a good idea to have strong borders, *enforce laws*, improve our visa tracking system etc.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet all of a sudden, magically, you *don't* want to have the law enforced.
Click to expand...

True, in cases like these I don't think we can round up 10+ million people and kick them out of our country. That is not even close to a smart solution. Those 10+ million people that you like to call criminals are now part of the fabric of our society and economy, you can't just take that element away and expect positive results.  So the system needs reform.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.
> 
> 
> 
> Board is slow??  Link took forever?
> 18 years and speaks no English on camera? Huh? I was in Seoul for 5 weeks and learned 13 high words.  And I am unemployed useless human garbage.  She don't know anything?  And her Pastor and Lawyer was there?  Wth?  I don't have a lawyer!
> 
> Tablet or board barely useable.  Dont make me go to PC or I will go on posting binge!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just watched the story, and I noticed she didn't speak a word of English either.  HTF can you be so lazy to live in a country for 18 years and not learn the  language?
> 
> This woman  stinks  all around, and I can't help but to believe that CNN is leaving out a  lot of facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps, I've seen enough lies in our media to take it all with a grain of salt.  But I also saw enough to show that she wan't a violent criminal and its very unlikely she poses a thread to our society.  There are many families sitting in the same situation as the one in the video.  The tough guy, kick em out attitude that many of you are pissing out there is just plain ugly.  I'm fine with enforcing the law at the border... But you have to be an idiot of you think you can kick 10+ million people out of the country and you'd have to be an even bigger idiot of you don't realize that serious reform needs to happen with our currently situation of undocumented immigrants
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To my knowledge, we have no law or agreement that as long as you're not a violent criminal, you get to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have the statements from our leadership that say they are going after violent criminals and then we see stories like this.
Click to expand...


Going after means targeting them.  If they run across an illegal here or there, it doesn't mean they get a free pass.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...


No, it does not.

But she is the victim of a backlash that comes from the laast administration turning it's back on the issue.

It's only going to get more ugly.


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, then I would have probably been put on probation and if I followed what I was instructed to do i sure as hell hope it wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass 18 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> Right? And this is what happens when we don't obey/enforce the law. Had the Clinton Administration done the right thing 20 years ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. You're literally proving our point for us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that your proving our point for us. You're advocating a return to the policies that created this mess in the first place. If we do the right thing now (deport her criminal ass), the problem is mitigated. If we allow her to stay (like the Clinton Administration did), we get more of this exact mess in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lets try again... My point is that deporting this lady is messed up and not a smart way to deal with the immigration problem... What point are you trying to make?
Click to expand...

Care to quantify how it's "not smart"? You keep saying it so I'm assuming there is some terrible consequence that we should all be concerned about regarding this outcome. Do tell.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've conceded multiple times on this thread that I think its a good idea to have strong borders, *enforce laws*, improve our visa tracking system etc.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet all of a sudden, magically, you *don't* want to have the law enforced.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, in cases like these I don't think we can round up 10+ million people and kick them out of our country. That is not even close to a smart solution. Those 10+ million people that you like to call criminals are now part of the fabric of our society and economy, you can't just take that element away and expect positive results.  So the system needs reform.
Click to expand...


By needing reform, you mean make things easier for them to come or stay here?  Sorry, that doesn't fly. 

It's stories like these that will make other illegals think about not sticking  around.  Self-deportation.  It's already working on reducing the amount of people  trying to get in.  So we are on the right track.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right, then I would have probably been put on probation and if I followed what I was instructed to do i sure as hell hope it wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass 18 years later.
> 
> 
> 
> Right? And this is what happens when we don't obey/enforce the law. Had the Clinton Administration done the right thing 20 years ago, this wouldn't be an issue today. You're literally proving our point for us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is that your proving our point for us. You're advocating a return to the policies that created this mess in the first place. If we do the right thing now (deport her criminal ass), the problem is mitigated. If we allow her to stay (like the Clinton Administration did), we get more of this exact mess in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lets try again... My point is that deporting this lady is messed up and not a smart way to deal with the immigration problem... What point are you trying to make?
Click to expand...

That we should enforce the law. Impartially. Consistently. Unbiasedly.


----------



## LordBrownTrout

Send her back.  She didn't respect our laws.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> True, in cases like these I don't think we can round up 10+ million people and kick them out of our country.


So let me get this straight - we were able to track down Saddam Hussein (the proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack) and we were able to track down Osama Bin Laden (yet another proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack), but we can't find illegal aliens and kick them the hell out of our country?

You're not fooling anyone. Not even yourself.


----------



## Slade3200

OKTexas said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law. She should have never been allowed to remain in the country in the first place. Knowing she was subject to deportation, she chose to have a family anyways, her choices put her in this situation, now she can accept the consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to feel anyway you want, logic and the law says she should have been deported 18 years ago when she reentered the country, she didn't have her family then. She knew she wasn't eligible, without a presidential pardon, for legal status. Why didn't she pursue one over the last 18 years, that covers 3 administrations? Like I said, her choices put her and her family in this position, bad choices bring bad consequences.
Click to expand...

Obama had the dreamers act that and there has been decades of political propaganda talking about immigration reform, so it makes sense that she was waiting for something to happen that would allow her to register and stay. In the mean time she checked in with ICE like she was told to do and did her best to live her life. I agree should should have been deported 20 years ago with the fake visa but she wasn't, she was allowed to stay of 18 years... I get that you want to be a tough ass about immigration but I think if any of you had a family member, coworker or friend who was stuck in the middle of a situation like this you would feel that something was wrong.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me summarize:
> 
> We have this woman who tried to use fake documents to illegally gain access to our country.
> In the 18 years she was here, it was too much trouble for her to learn at least some of our language.
> In spite of here uncertainty, she had FOUR kids anyway.
> Unless her husband has a hell of a good paying job where he has the ability to support a family of six, it's more than  likely our tax dollars are supporting this family.
> So then the question is, how are  we so heatless to show no empathy for her plight?????
> 
> 
> 
> You're funny man... Way to paint a narrative, gotta give you points on creativity.  Next time you summarize a situation try using the facts presented, not your biased assumptions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Outside of these kids being on some kind of public support, all I used were facts.  In Chicago, in order to support a family of six, you would have to be doing well into six figures in income.
> 
> Now, is there anything on my list outside of welfare that was not a fact?
Click to expand...

You made 4 points 2 of which were total speculation. You don't know what she doesn't speak english... just because she didn't on camera doesn't mean she doesn't speak english. Perhaps she was nervous and wanted to speak in her foreign tongue... And you have no clue about the financial situation of their family which you already admitted.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is when it was first discovered she had used false documents to obtain the visa that brought her here, she should have been immediately deported and not allowed to hang around for 18 years.  Deporting her sends exactly the right policy message, if you enter the US illegally you will be deported, but she can always appeal this decision if she thinks her case deserves special consideration, so the policy is both firm and humane.
Click to expand...

I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



She broke the law. Why am I supposed to shed a tear? I have no right to go to another country and expect the right of citizenship; yet, you think we're beholden to a double standard. Fuck that. That's my thoughts.


----------



## Slade3200

OKTexas said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What she did was a felony, she should have never been allowed to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious... Do you think every kid in school with a fake ID should be charged with a felony?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does the law say? It's a simple concept, you enforce the law or you don't.
Click to expand...

The law also says to not speed but if i'm driving my buddy to the hospital while he is having a seizure and a cop gives me a ticket for doing 65 in a 55... I'm going to state my objections.


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me summarize:
> 
> We have this woman who tried to use fake documents to illegally gain access to our country.
> In the 18 years she was here, it was too much trouble for her to learn at least some of our language.
> In spite of here uncertainty, she had FOUR kids anyway.
> Unless her husband has a hell of a good paying job where he has the ability to support a family of six, it's more than  likely our tax dollars are supporting this family.
> So then the question is, how are  we so heatless to show no empathy for her plight?????
> 
> 
> 
> You're funny man... Way to paint a narrative, gotta give you points on creativity.  Next time you summarize a situation try using the facts presented, not your biased assumptions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Outside of these kids being on some kind of public support, all I used were facts.  In Chicago, in order to support a family of six, you would have to be doing well into six figures in income.
> 
> Now, is there anything on my list outside of welfare that was not a fact?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made 4 points 2 of which were total speculation. You don't know what she doesn't speak english... just because she didn't on camera doesn't mean she doesn't speak english. Perhaps she was nervous and wanted to speak in her foreign tongue... And you have no clue about the financial situation of their family which you already admitted.
Click to expand...

No. No. get it right. Not "her foreign tongue". Her "native" tongue! Your mealy mouthed attempts the grant this invader equivalency with Americans will not go unchecked.


----------



## Slade3200

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it does not.
> 
> But she is the victim of a backlash that comes from the laast administration turning it's back on the issue.
> 
> It's only going to get more ugly.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure but I think I remember you being a pretty right leaning guy, I appreciate you actually admitting that this story is a little disturbing... You are the second person in 20 pages to show a little objectivity. I agree with you that it is only going to get worse.


----------



## Borillar

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't go to the link, but I have another question about this case:
> 
> She is a mother of  four.  She is an illegal so she shouldn't be employed anywhere.  The question I have is, how is she supporting these four children in her position?  We have legals  and many American born people here that can't support a family of five.
> 
> 
> 
> Board is slow??  Link took forever?
> 18 years and speaks no English on camera? Huh? I was in Seoul for 5 weeks and learned 13 high words.  And I am unemployed useless human garbage.  She don't know anything?  And her Pastor and Lawyer was there?  Wth?  I don't have a lawyer!
> 
> Tablet or board barely useable.  Dont make me go to PC or I will go on posting binge!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just watched the story, and I noticed she didn't speak a word of English either.  HTF can you be so lazy to live in a country for 18 years and not learn the  language?
> 
> This woman  stinks  all around, and I can't help but to believe that CNN is leaving out a  lot of facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps, I've seen enough lies in our media to take it all with a grain of salt.  But I also saw enough to show that she wan't a violent criminal and its very unlikely she poses a thread to our society.  There are many families sitting in the same situation as the one in the video.  The tough guy, kick em out attitude that many of you are pissing out there is just plain ugly.  I'm fine with enforcing the law at the border... But you have to be an idiot of you think you can kick 10+ million people out of the country and you'd have to be an even bigger idiot of you don't realize that serious reform needs to happen with our currently situation of undocumented immigrants
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To my knowledge, we have no law or agreement that as long as you're not a violent criminal, you get to stay in this country illegally.
Click to expand...

For that matter, any alien in this country is subject to deportation whether they are here legally or not. Aliens don't have a right to be here. They are only here because we suffer them to be here. Even aliens with green cards can be revoked and deported. Sucks for her and her family, but she should have been deported when she was caught trying to enter with fraudulent papers. It may seem capricious for this woman to be deported, when someone from Cuba could just set foot on a Florida beach and get instant residence, but again, she has no right to be here.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is when it was first discovered she had used false documents to obtain the visa that brought her here, she should have been immediately deported and not allowed to hang around for 18 years.  Deporting her sends exactly the right policy message, if you enter the US illegally you will be deported, but she can always appeal this decision if she thinks her case deserves special consideration, so the policy is both firm and humane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right
Click to expand...

First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> Obama had the dreamers act


Which was 100% illegal/unconstitutional as the President of the United States has no authority to create, eliminate, or alter law in any capacity.


Slade3200 said:


> there has been decades of political propaganda talking about immigration reform


What is there to "reform"? We have immigration laws. Enforce them. This is like the Dumbocrats allowing people to break the speed limit and then insisting after people died that we need "speed limit reform". 


Slade3200 said:


> I get that you want to be a tough ass about immigration but I think if any of you had a family member, coworker or friend who was stuck in the middle of a situation like this you would feel that something was wrong.


We get that you want to make a Hallmark tear-jerker, bleeding heart movie to advance your left-wing agenda but it's not happening. It's so refreshing to have an administration that actually enforces the law (all laws) - and not just whatever is politically expedient for them.


----------



## MaryL

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it does not.
> 
> But she is the victim of a backlash that comes from the laast administration turning it's back on the issue.
> 
> It's only going to get more ugly.
Click to expand...

Backlash, or blow back. Hubris. Illegals can't just ignore American culture forever.  A little pushback is inevitable.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, in cases like these I don't think we can round up 10+ million people and kick them out of our country.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight - we were able to track down Saddam Hussein (the proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack) and we were able to track down Osama Bin Laden (yet another proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack), but we can't find illegal aliens and kick them the hell out of our country?
> 
> You're not fooling anyone. Not even yourself.
Click to expand...

This is the dumbest post i've seen from you yet... do I really need to explain why? Try reading it again and maybe you'll get it.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, in cases like these I don't think we can round up 10+ million people and kick them out of our country.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight - we were able to track down Saddam Hussein (the proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack) and we were able to track down Osama Bin Laden (yet another proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack), but we can't find illegal aliens and kick them the hell out of our country?
> 
> You're not fooling anyone. Not even yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the dumbest post i've seen from you yet... do I really need to explain why? Try reading it again and maybe you'll get it.
Click to expand...

No need to resort to personal insults brother just because I'm pointing out the irrational case you make in each post.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What she did was a felony, she should have never been allowed to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious... Do you think every kid in school with a fake ID should be charged with a felony?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does the law say? It's a simple concept, you enforce the law or you don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law also says to not speed but if i'm driving my buddy to the hospital while he is having a seizure and a cop gives me a ticket for doing 65 in a 55... I'm going to state my objections.
Click to expand...


What's your point? You think that illegal immigration is an emergency procedure? That's ludicrous.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> The law also says to not speed but if i'm driving my buddy to the hospital while he is having a seizure and a cop gives me a ticket for doing 65 in a 55... I'm going to state my objections.


You're welcome to "state your objections". And he's still welcome to give your ass a ticket. You should've called 911 and allowed the ambulance (an emergency vehicle with the proper equipment which is authorized to break the speed limit) to rush him to the hospital (as they also have knowledge and equipment to save his life which you do not have). See how that works chief?


----------



## P@triot

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law also says to not speed but if i'm driving my buddy to the hospital while he is having a seizure and a cop gives me a ticket for doing 65 in a 55... I'm going to state my objections.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your point? You think that illegal immigration is an emergency procedure? That's ludicrous.
Click to expand...

It's funny - when I obliterate his position he cries "false equivalencies" but then he turns around and attempts to make _that_ silly argument.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is when it was first discovered she had used false documents to obtain the visa that brought her here, she should have been immediately deported and not allowed to hang around for 18 years.  Deporting her sends exactly the right policy message, if you enter the US illegally you will be deported, but she can always appeal this decision if she thinks her case deserves special consideration, so the policy is both firm and humane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
Click to expand...

You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a *moral problem* with what happened *here*, not particularly a legal one.


Yeah - the "moral problem here" is that she lacked morals and attempted to obtain a visa with false credentials. That is further compounded by the severe "moral problem here" that you want to absolve her of all personal responsibility and blame all of society for her self-created problems.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama had the dreamers act
> 
> 
> 
> Which was 100% illegal/unconstitutional as the President of the United States has no authority to create, eliminate, or alter law in any capacity.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there has been decades of political propaganda talking about immigration reform
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is there to "reform"? We have immigration laws. Enforce them. This is like the Dumbocrats allowing people to break the speed limit and then insisting after people died that we need "speed limit reform".
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get that you want to be a tough ass about immigration but I think if any of you had a family member, coworker or friend who was stuck in the middle of a situation like this you would feel that something was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We get that you want to make a Hallmark tear-jerker, bleeding heart movie to advance your left-wing agenda but it's not happening. It's so refreshing to have an administration that actually enforces the law (all laws) - and not just whatever is politically expedient for them.
Click to expand...

I've already said that I could give a shit about your partisan claims. I'm not a lefty or a righty and I fall on both sides of the aisle depending on the situation. The fact that you don't think the immigration system needs reform tells me that you are pretty out of touch about this topic.


----------



## OKTexas

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law. She should have never been allowed to remain in the country in the first place. Knowing she was subject to deportation, she chose to have a family anyways, her choices put her in this situation, now she can accept the consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to feel anyway you want, logic and the law says she should have been deported 18 years ago when she reentered the country, she didn't have her family then. She knew she wasn't eligible, without a presidential pardon, for legal status. Why didn't she pursue one over the last 18 years, that covers 3 administrations? Like I said, her choices put her and her family in this position, bad choices bring bad consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obama had the dreamers act that and there has been decades of political propaganda talking about immigration reform, so it makes sense that she was waiting for something to happen that would allow her to register and stay. In the mean time she checked in with ICE like she was told to do and did her best to live her life. I agree should should have been deported 20 years ago with the fake visa but she wasn't, she was allowed to stay of 18 years... I get that you want to be a tough ass about immigration but I think if any of you had a family member, coworker or friend who was stuck in the middle of a situation like this you would feel that something was wrong.
Click to expand...



Once again, it goes back to choices. She chose to wait and see, instead of being proactive and requesting a sure fire fix. This is what wait and see got her, deal with it.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, in cases like these I don't think we can round up 10+ million people and kick them out of our country.
> 
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight - we were able to track down Saddam Hussein (the proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack) and we were able to track down Osama Bin Laden (yet another proverbial needle in the ultimate haystack), but we can't find illegal aliens and kick them the hell out of our country?
> 
> You're not fooling anyone. Not even yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is the dumbest post i've seen from you yet... do I really need to explain why? Try reading it again and maybe you'll get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need to resort to personal insults brother just because I'm pointing out the irrational case you make in each post.
Click to expand...

Not a personal insult just talking about the content of your post. You are equating a military operation to seek out an enemy of the state with the enforcement of immigration laws within our borders.  It is a completely different thing. Were you seriously trying to make that point?


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> The fact that you don't think the immigration system needs reform tells me that you are pretty out of touch about this topic.


The fact that you _do_ tells me you are a partisan hack. We have an immigration system. There is absolutely *nothing* wrong with it other than the fact that Barack Obama and the Dumbocrats refuse to enforce the law.

Your inability to even articulate why you believe we need to "reform" the immigration system speaks volumes. Again, it is akin to not enforcing the speed limit and then insisting that we need to "reform the speed limits" when people start dying. Uh....no. All we need to do is enforce the laws. They exist for a reason.


----------



## Slade3200

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What she did was a felony, she should have never been allowed to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm curious... Do you think every kid in school with a fake ID should be charged with a felony?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does the law say? It's a simple concept, you enforce the law or you don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law also says to not speed but if i'm driving my buddy to the hospital while he is having a seizure and a cop gives me a ticket for doing 65 in a 55... I'm going to state my objections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's your point? You think that illegal immigration is an emergency procedure? That's ludicrous.
Click to expand...

My point is that law enforcement is not always black and white.


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama had the dreamers act
> 
> 
> 
> Which was 100% illegal/unconstitutional as the President of the United States has no authority to create, eliminate, or alter law in any capacity.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there has been decades of political propaganda talking about immigration reform
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is there to "reform"? We have immigration laws. Enforce them. This is like the Dumbocrats allowing people to break the speed limit and then insisting after people died that we need "speed limit reform".
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get that you want to be a tough ass about immigration but I think if any of you had a family member, coworker or friend who was stuck in the middle of a situation like this you would feel that something was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We get that you want to make a Hallmark tear-jerker, bleeding heart movie to advance your left-wing agenda but it's not happening. It's so refreshing to have an administration that actually enforces the law (all laws) - and not just whatever is politically expedient for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've already said that I could give a shit about your partisan claims. I'm not a lefty or a righty and I fall on both sides of the aisle depending on the situation. The fact that you don't think the immigration system needs reform tells me that you are pretty out of touch about this topic.
Click to expand...

It doesn't necessarily need reform. For now; it needs enforcement. And that's just what we're beginning to see. Once that's fully reestablished, then we can decide wether or not it needs reform.


----------



## my2¢

I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law also says to not speed but if i'm driving my buddy to the hospital while he is having a seizure and a cop gives me a ticket for doing 65 in a 55... I'm going to state my objections.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your point? You think that illegal immigration is an emergency procedure? That's ludicrous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's funny - when I obliterate his position he cries "false equivalencies" but then he turns around and attempts to make _that_ silly argument.
Click to expand...

I thought of that when I wrote it... Funny you still think those arguments were fair. I did use a false equivalency with my argument but it was to make the point that now all law enforcement is black and white. Sometimes different situations call for different actions.

Now i realize there are opposing views to this but this is my view.  Trust me man, you didn't obliterate anything yet.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is when it was first discovered she had used false documents to obtain the visa that brought her here, she should have been immediately deported and not allowed to hang around for 18 years.  Deporting her sends exactly the right policy message, if you enter the US illegally you will be deported, but she can always appeal this decision if she thinks her case deserves special consideration, so the policy is both firm and humane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
Click to expand...

There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a *moral problem* with what happened *here*, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah - the "moral problem here" is that she lacked morals and attempted to obtain a visa with false credentials. That is further compounded by the severe "moral problem here" that you want to absolve her of all personal responsibility and blame all of society for her self-created problems.
Click to expand...

I think it is immoral and pretty fucked up for our Immigration agency to allow her to stay here for 18 years then kick her out. Its fucked up to her, her family and her community.


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a *moral problem* with what happened *here*, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah - the "moral problem here" is that she lacked morals and attempted to obtain a visa with false credentials. That is further compounded by the severe "moral problem here" that you want to absolve her of all personal responsibility and blame all of society for her self-created problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is immoral and pretty fucked up for our Immigration agency to allow her to stay here for 18 years then kick her out. Its fucked up to her, her family and her community.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I'm sure the community she's infiltrated will collapse without her in it... For the record: It's not her community. Her community is south of the border.


----------



## Slade3200

OKTexas said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law. She should have never been allowed to remain in the country in the first place. Knowing she was subject to deportation, she chose to have a family anyways, her choices put her in this situation, now she can accept the consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to feel anyway you want, logic and the law says she should have been deported 18 years ago when she reentered the country, she didn't have her family then. She knew she wasn't eligible, without a presidential pardon, for legal status. Why didn't she pursue one over the last 18 years, that covers 3 administrations? Like I said, her choices put her and her family in this position, bad choices bring bad consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obama had the dreamers act that and there has been decades of political propaganda talking about immigration reform, so it makes sense that she was waiting for something to happen that would allow her to register and stay. In the mean time she checked in with ICE like she was told to do and did her best to live her life. I agree should should have been deported 20 years ago with the fake visa but she wasn't, she was allowed to stay of 18 years... I get that you want to be a tough ass about immigration but I think if any of you had a family member, coworker or friend who was stuck in the middle of a situation like this you would feel that something was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, it goes back to choices. She chose to wait and see, instead of being proactive and requesting a sure fire fix. This is what wait and see got her, deal with it.
Click to expand...

You are right, it was a risk... she went through 3 presidents over the course of 18 years that all took steps towards inclusion and acceptance of people in her situation. At the same time ICE was allowing her to stay. While I do not think ICE did anything illegal, I don't think i'm out of line to say that it was fucked up


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you don't think the immigration system needs reform tells me that you are pretty out of touch about this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you _do_ tells me you are a partisan hack. We have an immigration system. There is absolutely *nothing* wrong with it other than the fact that Barack Obama and the Dumbocrats refuse to enforce the law.
> 
> Your inability to even articulate why you believe we need to "reform" the immigration system speaks volumes. Again, it is akin to not enforcing the speed limit and then insisting that we need to "reform the speed limits" when people start dying. Uh....no. All we need to do is enforce the laws. They exist for a reason.
Click to expand...

Every politician Left Right and Center speaks about the need for Immigration reform. Here is a link to Trumps plan. Would you mind sending a link to anybody who you respect that thinks that no reform is needed? 

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Immigration-Reform-Trump.pdf


----------



## Slade3200

P@triot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you don't think the immigration system needs reform tells me that you are pretty out of touch about this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you _do_ tells me you are a partisan hack. We have an immigration system. There is absolutely *nothing* wrong with it other than the fact that Barack Obama and the Dumbocrats refuse to enforce the law.
> 
> Your inability to even articulate why you believe we need to "reform" the immigration system speaks volumes. Again, it is akin to not enforcing the speed limit and then insisting that we need to "reform the speed limits" when people start dying. Uh....no. All we need to do is enforce the laws. They exist for a reason.
Click to expand...

I can articulate if very simply. Our current system has allowed 10's of millions of people to enter and live in our country without documentation. These people do some of the hardest work for shit pay and are exploited by our employers and in our legal system.  We have 10's of millions of people who live in the shadows with fake ID's or no ID's in fear of being deported. These people are members of our communities and have children who were born here and are US citizens. The status quo is not good, it needs to be fixed.  I can't explain it any clearer and if you really don't see a problem or need for reform then there just isn't anything more I can do for you.


----------



## Slade3200

my2¢ said:


> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.


Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard but we forget these are real people with real families.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is when it was first discovered she had used false documents to obtain the visa that brought her here, she should have been immediately deported and not allowed to hang around for 18 years.  Deporting her sends exactly the right policy message, if you enter the US illegally you will be deported, but she can always appeal this decision if she thinks her case deserves special consideration, so the policy is both firm and humane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
Click to expand...

I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.


----------



## S.J.

Slade3200 said:


> my2¢ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard *but we forget these are real people with real families*.
Click to expand...

They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?


----------



## Slade3200

S.J. said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my2¢ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard *but we forget these are real people with real families*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?
Click to expand...

They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.


----------



## TNHarley

Good. 
Fuck illegals.


----------



## Maryland Patriot

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


Good. Get that illegal bitch out of the country.


----------



## Pete7469

Slade3200 said:


> My point is that law enforcement is not always black and white.



It's a Right Vs. Wrong issue.

You're wrong....


----------



## Manonthestreet

Why didnt she apply for citizenship.....how was she paying her bills....


----------



## S.J.

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my2¢ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard *but we forget these are real people with real families*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.
Click to expand...

They're fucking parasites living off our taxpayers, you ignorant asshole.


----------



## Slyhunter

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...

So her husband and rest of her family did it without getting caught thus she feels like she shouldn't be punished simply because she was the one who got caught.


----------



## OKTexas

Slade3200 said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> The inaction of other administrations doesn't prevent this one from following the law. She should have never been allowed to remain in the country in the first place. Knowing she was subject to deportation, she chose to have a family anyways, her choices put her in this situation, now she can accept the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats your opinion and thats fine. Do you understand my objections and why I think it is fucked up? or does it just baffle you that somebody could feel that way?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to feel anyway you want, logic and the law says she should have been deported 18 years ago when she reentered the country, she didn't have her family then. She knew she wasn't eligible, without a presidential pardon, for legal status. Why didn't she pursue one over the last 18 years, that covers 3 administrations? Like I said, her choices put her and her family in this position, bad choices bring bad consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obama had the dreamers act that and there has been decades of political propaganda talking about immigration reform, so it makes sense that she was waiting for something to happen that would allow her to register and stay. In the mean time she checked in with ICE like she was told to do and did her best to live her life. I agree should should have been deported 20 years ago with the fake visa but she wasn't, she was allowed to stay of 18 years... I get that you want to be a tough ass about immigration but I think if any of you had a family member, coworker or friend who was stuck in the middle of a situation like this you would feel that something was wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, it goes back to choices. She chose to wait and see, instead of being proactive and requesting a sure fire fix. This is what wait and see got her, deal with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are right, it was a risk... she went through 3 presidents over the course of 18 years that all took steps towards inclusion and acceptance of people in her situation. At the same time ICE was allowing her to stay. While I do not think ICE did anything illegal, I don't think i'm out of line to say that it was fucked up
Click to expand...



Yep, 3 different administrations to request a pardon from and she didn't, even though it was her only known path for legal status. Right now she is an illegal with a felony, and we finally have an administration that is enforcing the law. That's the long and the short of it.


----------



## Vastator

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my2¢ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard *but we forget these are real people with real families*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.
Click to expand...

And they can live that life where they belong. In Mexico!


----------



## PredFan

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



Good.


----------



## Slade3200

Manonthestreet said:


> Why didnt she apply for citizenship.....how was she paying her bills....


She did apply, she couldn't get papers because of the visa violation. She was told she could stay if she reported to ICE twice a year which she did for 18 years.


----------



## Slade3200

Slyhunter said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So her husband and rest of her family did it without getting caught thus she feels like she shouldn't be punished simply because she was the one who got caught.
Click to expand...

You're talking about punishing her for something she did 20 years ago?  Did you have a fake ID in high school?


----------



## Slade3200

S.J. said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my2¢ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard *but we forget these are real people with real families*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking parasites living off our taxpayers, you ignorant asshole.
Click to expand...

I bet most them do more work in one month than you do in the entire year.


----------



## S.J.

Manonthestreet said:


> Why didnt she apply for citizenship.....how was she paying her bills....


I live in southern Ca. and every Mexican I know is on some kind of government assistance, whether they're legal or not.  Especially the ones who don't speak English.  Actually, I do know one who doesn't.  He's a Republican.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Slade3200 said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didnt she apply for citizenship.....how was she paying her bills....
> 
> 
> 
> She did apply, she couldn't get papers because of the visa violation. She was told she could stay if she reported to ICE twice a year which she did for 18 years.
Click to expand...

A Visa and citizenship not the same.....


----------



## MaryL

Slyhunter said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So her husband and rest of her family did it without getting caught thus she feels like she shouldn't be punished simply because she was the one who got caught.
Click to expand...

Nope. I  know people that fled communist  Hungary in the 50's and immigrated legally, to boot. And they aren't liking illegal immigrants,  either. Because we all know  illegal aliens aren't REAL immigrants. They are just lap dogs for rich elitist of any stripe that exploit them . Try living with illegals a year or two, you will get it.


----------



## S.J.

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my2¢ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard *but we forget these are real people with real families*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking parasites living off our taxpayers, you ignorant asshole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet most them do more work in one month than you do in the entire year.
Click to expand...

Bet all you want, you don't have a clue about me OR the illegal criminals.


----------



## MaryL

Slade3200 said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So her husband and rest of her family did it without getting caught thus she feels like she shouldn't be punished simply because she was the one who got caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're talking about punishing her for something she did 20 years ago?  Did you have a fake ID in high school?
Click to expand...

What was wrong yesterday will be wrong tomorrow. Suffering Jesus. I am as human as she, but I am NOT buying the excuses, either.  Sorry. Immigrate legally, or not, and get deported. I am not gonna shed too many tears for illegals, they KNEW the consequences and they aren't making me weep one bit.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a *moral problem* with what happened *here*, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah - the "moral problem here" is that she lacked morals and attempted to obtain a visa with false credentials. That is further compounded by the severe "moral problem here" that you want to absolve her of all personal responsibility and blame all of society for her self-created problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is immoral and pretty fucked up for our Immigration agency to allow her to stay here for 18 years then kick her out. Its fucked up to her, her family and her community.
Click to expand...


So it would be less fucked  up if  they kicked  her out 20 years ago?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me summarize:
> 
> We have this woman who tried to use fake documents to illegally gain access to our country.
> In the 18 years she was here, it was too much trouble for her to learn at least some of our language.
> In spite of here uncertainty, she had FOUR kids anyway.
> Unless her husband has a hell of a good paying job where he has the ability to support a family of six, it's more than  likely our tax dollars are supporting this family.
> So then the question is, how are  we so heatless to show no empathy for her plight?????
> 
> 
> 
> You're funny man... Way to paint a narrative, gotta give you points on creativity.  Next time you summarize a situation try using the facts presented, not your biased assumptions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Outside of these kids being on some kind of public support, all I used were facts.  In Chicago, in order to support a family of six, you would have to be doing well into six figures in income.
> 
> Now, is there anything on my list outside of welfare that was not a fact?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made 4 points 2 of which were total speculation. You don't know what she doesn't speak english... just because she didn't on camera doesn't mean she doesn't speak english. Perhaps she was nervous and wanted to speak in her foreign tongue... And you have no clue about the financial situation of their family which you already admitted.
Click to expand...


If she spoke English she wouldn't have  needed anybody to interpret what was being said to her.  Sorry, you lost on that one.  It's recorded and you can't deny the obvious.  

Her children however spoke fluent English, and in spite of that, she still doesn't understand our language. 

This tells me that we've admitted a lazy bitch into this country that wants handouts and undeserved  sympathy.  She had children in spite of her uncertain future.  That's not our fault--that's hers.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> I think it is immoral and pretty fucked up for our Immigration agency to allow her to stay here for 18 years then kick her out. Its fucked up to her, her family and her community.


It's *not* our immigration system or an immigration agency that allowed to her stay. It was ignorant Dumbocrats (the Clinton Administration). You're crying about a problem that was created by the same idiotic policies you are advocating!!! Do you not hear yourself?!?


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.


Can you imagine if Bernie Madoff tried that defense? "I'm a human being trying to live a fucking life you entitled little prick". Yeah...I'm sure you'd support him saying that.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?
> 
> 
> 
> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.
Click to expand...

No...really...they are fucking *criminals* just like S.J. said.


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> She did apply, she couldn't get papers because of the visa violation. She was told she could stay if she reported to ICE twice a year which she did for 18 years.


And that was one of her multiple idiotic decisions. No matter how much you whine, you will never absolve her of her responsibility. This is 90% on her and 10% on the Clinton Administration. And now your dumb ass wants to double down on that 10% and make the exact same mistake again instead of learning from it.


----------



## Clementine

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*
> 
> Crime doesn't pay.
Click to expand...



Good chance that they are making an example of her as a warning.    Enough of this shit.   People know they come here illegally and that there are consequences.   Just because she checked in, as all of them should do, doesn't make the crime go away and it wasn't a promise that she could stay indefinitely.   She blew her chances years ago by falsifying documents.

When you knowingly break a federal law, you should expect to face penalties for your actions.    Those who have done the same as she did and haven't been caught yet may as well leave now.  

Laws are being enforced again and that means no more free passes.

The left is upset because this woman broke the law and think she and all the others should be let off the hook.   

I saw no sympathy from the left for all those who were murdered by illegals or killed in car accidents because of drunk illegals.    No crying over the rapes or other horrible crimes committed against citizens.    Many mothers, fathers, sons and daughters were lost forever because of illegal aliens who never should have been here and yet the left only cries when one of them is expected to face the music for breaking immigration laws.


----------



## P@triot

I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread that agrees with Slade. It's nice to see people respecting the rule of law after 8 years of lawlessness under Barack Obama.


----------



## S.J.

P@triot said:


> I don't think I've seen a single post in this thread that agrees with Slade. It's nice to see people respecting the rule of law after 8 years of lawlessness under Barack Obama.


And he claims he's not a liberal.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a *moral problem* with what happened *here*, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah - the "moral problem here" is that she lacked morals and attempted to obtain a visa with false credentials. That is further compounded by the severe "moral problem here" that you want to absolve her of all personal responsibility and blame all of society for her self-created problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is immoral and pretty fucked up for our Immigration agency to allow her to stay here for 18 years then kick her out. Its fucked up to her, her family and her community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it would be less fucked  up if  they kicked  her out 20 years ago?
Click to expand...

Yes


----------



## Tresha91203

Slade3200 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer..
> No. I have never put myself in that position. I have never tried to sneak across a sovereign nations border, then attempted to set up residence, while leeching off of the denizens of that nation.
> 
> Zero tolerance...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart. Again, ICE told her should could stay as long as she checks in which she did for 18 years.  She did make a mistake 20 years ago trying to use a fake visa.  Do you really think the way this situation played out is right?
Click to expand...


She's not telling the whole story. When found with a fake visa, she could have returned home and reapply in 2 years. That's the legal way. The other option, since immigration isn't big on the agenda, is to stay in the US illegally and hope we go amnesty rather than enforcement. She gambled. She also married and brought kids into this knowing she was here illegally and could be deported.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Slade3200 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*
> 
> Crime doesn't pay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for revealing how a simple brain works. Read the first sentence and last sentence and you got it all figured out... way to go!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Came here illegally.....now get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lets be honest... She came here illegally, she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year, she did so for 18 years, she now has a life and family, she is now being deported after a voluntary check in with ICE.
> 
> That sits right with you?
Click to expand...


*She came here illegally, she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year,*

Yes. And she's still not a citizen and now she's being told to leave.
*
she now has a life and family*

Yes.
*
That sits right with you?*

A non-citizen who broke the law to come here has to go home.
Sounds like we're finally getting serious about illegals. About time.


----------



## Tresha91203

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That begs the question: if she was in this country for 20 years, why was she not working on getting a citizenship or a green card?  20 years and she supposedly reported to ICE twice a year?  There is something missing to this story that I don't understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She tried and they wouldn't give it to her because of her visa violation. she was told to check in with ICE
Click to expand...


She had to apply for the visa from HER country. One does not get to sneak in, then apply and get approved. One returns home when caught and applies from there. That's what she's not telling you. She COULD have applied and been approved in these 20 years. She chose the easier but riskier option.

I do not believe she wasn't told why her visa was denied. I do not believe she wasn't explained how to do it properly. She just didn't want to wait.


----------



## Rob37

Slade3200 said:


> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She tried to and they wouldn't let her because of the visa violation. But she was told that she could stay here if she checked in with ICE twice a year, which she did for 18 years.  This is the 20th time i've typed this fact because you all keep ignoring it. But i'll keep typing if because its the whole point of whats fucked up about this situation
Click to expand...

If ICE had enforced the law then she should of been deported.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is when it was first discovered she had used false documents to obtain the visa that brought her here, she should have been immediately deported and not allowed to hang around for 18 years.  Deporting her sends exactly the right policy message, if you enter the US illegally you will be deported, but she can always appeal this decision if she thinks her case deserves special consideration, so the policy is both firm and humane.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
Click to expand...

Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.  

President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, Thoughts?*
> 
> Crime doesn't pay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for revealing how a simple brain works. Read the first sentence and last sentence and you got it all figured out... way to go!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Came here illegally.....now get out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lets be honest... She came here illegally, she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year, she did so for 18 years, she now has a life and family, she is now being deported after a voluntary check in with ICE.
> 
> That sits right with you?
Click to expand...


So do we all have documentation of this, or are we taking her word for it?

I say we fire everyone at ICE, NIS, etc. that has ever been in contact with her and let her stay!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> She violated our immigration laws.  Has she been violating our election laws as well and voting in our elections?
> 
> 
> 
> She violated the law 20 years ago then complied for the last 18. Got no clue about the voting.
Click to expand...


By your own admission, she did not comply for 18 years or she would have left the country.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


My family is legal and I DO have a problem NEITHER of my Brother in laws can get in the Country from the Philippines because of legal wait and lists. So go cry your river of tears for those here illegally to someone else.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right
> 
> 
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
Click to expand...


Where do you get that Reagan did not enforce the law?  He changed the law!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
Click to expand...


Twenty years ago, Bill Clinton was president and had been for 4 years.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where do you get that Reagan did not enforce the law?  He changed the law!
Click to expand...

Unless I'm mistaken, he issued an executive order and did not change the law.


----------



## MaryL

When I see illegal aliens  come and go over the border, with NO regard to their own children, then  come back yet gain.... If illegal aliens either use their own children as ploys cynically or just come back after they are deported, as if their kids  were disposable, WHY SHOULD ANY ONE ELSE CARE? Please.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are they all American citizens but her?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have the background of her family members so I'll have to assume her husband and mother immigrated legally and her children where born here. She wasn't able to get another visa after her violation 20 years ago but was allowed to stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for the past 18 years.
> 
> Partisanship aside, there is something wrong here on a human level, wouldn't you agree?
Click to expand...

No I would not agree, she is in violation of the law. My brothers in law can not get in because leeches like this are sucking up resources and lowering allowed those from other Countries.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Pete7469 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama is the one who should be deported.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the Sun
Click to expand...


We'll tell him he is going at night!


----------



## S.J.

Tresha91203 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That begs the question: if she was in this country for 20 years, why was she not working on getting a citizenship or a green card?  20 years and she supposedly reported to ICE twice a year?  There is something missing to this story that I don't understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She tried and they wouldn't give it to her because of her visa violation. she was told to check in with ICE
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She had to apply for the visa from HER country. One does not get to sneak in, then apply and get approved. One returns home when caught and applies from there. That's what she's not telling you. She COULD have applied and been approved in these 20 years. She chose the easier but riskier option.
> 
> I do not believe she wasn't told why her visa was denied. I do not believe she wasn't explained how to do it properly. She just didn't want to wait.
Click to expand...

Her first instinct was to ignore the law.


----------



## Markle

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



FAKE NEWS.  Typical of CNN who prefers to raise fears as opposed to reporting the news.  The fact is, they have no idea what will happen.

They have no idea what will happen.

From your link.

"Francisca is a good woman. Her only crime is to come to this country to try to better herself and to help her children in Mexico get ahead. What mother wouldn't do that? Or what father?" *Burciaga said. "I don't know what is going to happen.* The other President would give her a chance. But this one, I don't know. We are hoping for a miracle."


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but thats not what happened... and 18 years later you see whats happening... If somebody got caught at the border with fake papers I'm all for sending them back to where they came from. I do not think they should get to stay here for 18 years and have a family while checking in with ICE.  But in this story, that is exactly what happened. It aint right
> 
> 
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
Click to expand...

Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
Click to expand...

If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> 
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box


----------



## AsianTrumpSupporter

Too bad, so sad.


----------



## Meathead

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


Deport the rest of the famiiy.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> my2¢ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for her but there's little choice of what can be done if you want to send a message and stop the problem.  It should help stem the flow of illegals trekking through the desert here in Arizona and thus save some lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats easy to say when it doesn't personally effect you. They all become pawns on the chessboard *but we forget these are real people with real families*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They're fucking criminals, can't you get that through your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.
Click to expand...




Slade3200 said:


> They are fucking human beings trying to live a fucking life you entitled prick.



So were every person incarcerated in prison, past, present, and future.

and they also had spouses, parents, and often, children


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
Click to expand...

If they get to stay where while they are on their "pathway," then effectively they have been granted amnesty.  Other foreigners have to wait in their countries of origin until they get a visa, not on American soil. 

It also appears that they aren't "hiding in the shadows."  They are right out in public.  Furthermore, I don't give a fuck if they are hiding in the shadows.  I want life to be harder for them, not easier.


----------



## Pete7469

Slade3200 said:


> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it



*FIX THE FUCKING BORDER FIRST.*

*GET RID OF THE CRIMINAL SCUM AND PARASITES SECOND.*

Then we can bring more people in legally.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, she wasn't caught at the border.  She arrived here using false documents to obtain a visa and it wasn't until she applied for a green card that the investigation revealed she was her illegally.  At that point she was given a choice, return home or live here year by year without any guarantee you will be able to stay for another year.  She chose to raise a family here under those circumstances, so while this is a tragedy for the family, it is  a tragedy to chose to risk.
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a moral problem with what happened here, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
Click to expand...


Or we can create policy that will promote self deportation, have them all leave, and then start from scratch.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Tresha91203 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll answer..
> No. I have never put myself in that position. I have never tried to sneak across a sovereign nations border, then attempted to set up residence, while leeching off of the denizens of that nation.
> 
> Zero tolerance...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart. Again, ICE told her should could stay as long as she checks in which she did for 18 years.  She did make a mistake 20 years ago trying to use a fake visa.  Do you really think the way this situation played out is right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's not telling the whole story. When found with a fake visa, she could have returned home and reapply in 2 years. That's the legal way. The other option, since immigration isn't big on the agenda, is to stay in the US illegally and hope we go amnesty rather than enforcement. She gambled. She also married and brought kids into this knowing she was here illegally and could be deported.
Click to expand...


That's what I've been saying.  I think there's a lot more to this story than what they are telling us.  I would love to know what her husband does for a living where he could support a family of 6 in a place like Chicago.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
Click to expand...

You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett

This country was created specifically for White people of European heritage via the Naturalization Act of 1790. These third world scum was never meant to be a part of this country. The founders were wise and knew what they were doing.


----------



## Tresha91203

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
Click to expand...


We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
Click to expand...

I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way


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## Slade3200

Tresha91203 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border


----------



## Dschrute3

While very sad, we are a nation of laws. You can't knowingly violate the law and than be 'outraged' when the law is enforced. This wouldn't have happened if she had obeyed the law, or the law was properly enforced initially. 

The reality is, she should have been sent back at that time. It's another glaring example of why it's time to end Illegal Immigration. No more excuses. Just get it done.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was something wrong with the system when she was allowed to stay here 18 years ago, but I don't see anything wrong with the system as it is working now.  She made some wrong choices in the past and it is sad her family will now have to pay for them, but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the way the system is working today.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree... I think Reagan had a big heart and did the right thing with his amnesty act. They failed to secure the border following that act and that lead to a bigger problem. Obama was of the same mindset and I believe did the right thing with DACA. It was the humane thing to do.  IMO it needs to go further... Secure the border, improve visa tracking, and provide a pathway to legal status for the undocumented people living in this country. I don't see why anybody would disagree with any of the 3 points I just made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. *Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties.* AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
Click to expand...


So what penalty is she paying for illegally immigrating?  She is being deported.  Sounds perfectly fair to me.


----------



## Rustic

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


Her very existence does not give her any rights, because she has no rights. Illegal is illegal... karma is a bitch


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## Dschrute3

I'm a compassionate person. So i hope something can be worked out for her. I don't wanna see a family torn apart. But the message does have to be sent that Illegal Immigration is coming to an end. So unfortunately, these kinds of things are gonna happen again.

My advice to folks wanting to come here, is to do it the legal way. We have a System in place for that process. When you knowingly break the law, you have to accept that there could be consequences. We are a nation of laws.


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## Ray From Cleveland

Dschrute3 said:


> I'm a compassionate person. So i hope something can be worked out for her. I don't wanna see a family torn apart. But the message does have to be sent that Illegal Immigration is coming to an end. So unfortunately, these kinds of things are gonna happen again.
> 
> My advice to folks wanting to come here, is to do it the legal way. We have a System in place for that to happen. When you knowingly break the law, you have to accept that there could be consequences. We are a nation of laws.



The problem is that there are probably tens  of thousands just like her, and every time one with kids gets  booted  out, the  media will have another picnic.  Because let's face it, if it weren't for her FOUR kids that she  probably isn't  supporting, it  would be a non-story.  But the media  loves to use children to  jerk a tear or two from their viewers or readers.


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## Slade3200

Rustic said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> Her very existence does not give her any rights, because she has no rights. Illegal is illegal... karma is a bitch
Click to expand...

I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans


----------



## Dschrute3

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a compassionate person. So i hope something can be worked out for her. I don't wanna see a family torn apart. But the message does have to be sent that Illegal Immigration is coming to an end. So unfortunately, these kinds of things are gonna happen again.
> 
> My advice to folks wanting to come here, is to do it the legal way. We have a System in place for that to happen. When you knowingly break the law, you have to accept that there could be consequences. We are a nation of laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that there are probably tens  of thousands just like her, and every time one with kids gets  booted  out, the  media will have another picnic.  Because let's face it, if it weren't for her FOUR kids that she  probably isn't  supporting, it  would be a non-story.  But the media  loves to use children to  jerk a tear or two from their viewers or readers.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, the Open Borders Leftists love this stuff. They'll use the kids for sure. But i am pretty sympathetic. These kinds of situations can be worked out. I'm ok with that, as long as our Government gets serious about Border Security and ending Illegal Immigration. But if it's just gonna continue to be an Open Borders free-for-all, i'm less inclined to be as sympathetic.


----------



## Rustic

Slade3200 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> Her very existence does not give her any rights, because she has no rights. Illegal is illegal... karma is a bitch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
Click to expand...

To hell with your globalism, the bitch is an illegal alien… End of story


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## Slade3200

Rustic said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> Her very existence does not give her any rights, because she has no rights. Illegal is illegal... karma is a bitch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To hell with your globalism, the bitch is an illegal alien… End of story
Click to expand...

You're off your rocker dude.


----------



## Rustic

Slade3200 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> Her very existence does not give her any rights, because she has no rights. Illegal is illegal... karma is a bitch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To hell with your globalism, the bitch is an illegal alien… End of story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're off your rocker dude.
Click to expand...

She should just continue living in the shadows if she comes back or wait in line....


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Dschrute3 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a compassionate person. So i hope something can be worked out for her. I don't wanna see a family torn apart. But the message does have to be sent that Illegal Immigration is coming to an end. So unfortunately, these kinds of things are gonna happen again.
> 
> My advice to folks wanting to come here, is to do it the legal way. We have a System in place for that to happen. When you knowingly break the law, you have to accept that there could be consequences. We are a nation of laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that there are probably tens  of thousands just like her, and every time one with kids gets  booted  out, the  media will have another picnic.  Because let's face it, if it weren't for her FOUR kids that she  probably isn't  supporting, it  would be a non-story.  But the media  loves to use children to  jerk a tear or two from their viewers or readers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, the Open Borders Leftists love this stuff. They'll use the kids for sure. But i am pretty sympathetic. These kinds of situations can be worked out. I'm ok with that, as long as our Government gets serious about Border Security and ending Illegal Immigration. But if it's just gonna continue to be an Open Borders free-for-all, i'm less inclined to be as sympathetic.
Click to expand...


These kids can go back with her.  It happens all the time.  Parent(s) get a job ten states away, and they just pack their bags and move.  I like to watch HGTV  where they feature  people buying homes.  American families move to other countries all the time, and yes, with kids.  They  have to learn a totally new culture, a totally new  language, and they get along just fine.  

If we had some law that stated the kids have to stay in the US, I would be more sympathetic.  We have a law  that says she has to go, but no law that states she can't take her family with  her.


----------



## Dschrute3

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a compassionate person. So i hope something can be worked out for her. I don't wanna see a family torn apart. But the message does have to be sent that Illegal Immigration is coming to an end. So unfortunately, these kinds of things are gonna happen again.
> 
> My advice to folks wanting to come here, is to do it the legal way. We have a System in place for that to happen. When you knowingly break the law, you have to accept that there could be consequences. We are a nation of laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that there are probably tens  of thousands just like her, and every time one with kids gets  booted  out, the  media will have another picnic.  Because let's face it, if it weren't for her FOUR kids that she  probably isn't  supporting, it  would be a non-story.  But the media  loves to use children to  jerk a tear or two from their viewers or readers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, the Open Borders Leftists love this stuff. They'll use the kids for sure. But i am pretty sympathetic. These kinds of situations can be worked out. I'm ok with that, as long as our Government gets serious about Border Security and ending Illegal Immigration. But if it's just gonna continue to be an Open Borders free-for-all, i'm less inclined to be as sympathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These kids can go back with her.  It happens all the time.  Parent(s) get a job ten states away, and they just pack their bags and move.  I like to watch HGTV  where they feature  people buying homes.  American families move to other countries all the time, and yes, with kids.  They  have to learn a totally new culture, a totally new  language, and they get along just fine.
> 
> If we had some law that stated the kids have to stay in the US, I would be more sympathetic.  We have a law  that says she has to go, but no law that states she can't take her family with  her.
Click to expand...


I hear ya. But if she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, i could work with her. Just how i feel anyway.


----------



## heil hitler

SassyIrishLass said:


> Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?



This is a rough interpretation of an interview I overheard on TV with the mother and a reporter
Reporter: "Maam why did you not seek out citizenship in those 20 years"
Illegal Mother: "Uhhh....ummmm...uhhhh...no..no Engleesh"
Reporter: "Back to you Tom"


----------



## Dschrute3

heil hitler said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rough interpretation of an interview I overheard on TV with the mother and a reporter
> Reporter: "Maam why did you not seek out citizenship in those 20 years"
> Illegal Mother: "Uhhh....ummmm...uhhhh...no..no Engleesh"
> Reporter: "Back to you Tom"
Click to expand...


She couldn't speak English after 20yrs here? That would be pretty disturbing to me. And i'm not trying to be cruel, but is she receiving Government Entitlements too? I know another poster asked about that as well. Because that seems to be another big problem with our current System. The Government Entitlements act as a magnet for Illegals.


----------



## whitehall

Try crossing into the Muslem countries that the left seems to protect or a Sharia dominated country with a fake visa or try entering North Korea and get 15 years at hard labor. I'm sure U.S. authorities would not stop the children from going to Mexico with their mother. Get used to it lefties, the criminals who are in the U.S. illegally are going back if they commit a crime.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> Her very existence does not give her any rights, because she has no rights. Illegal is illegal... karma is a bitch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
Click to expand...


She forfeited that right when she broke the law.  EOS.


----------



## miketx

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!


----------



## Rustic

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rustic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> Her very existence does not give her any rights, because she has no rights. Illegal is illegal... karma is a bitch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She forfeited that right when she broke the law.  EOS.
Click to expand...

Progressives have always been selective on the laws they want enforced… Fact


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

miketx said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!
Click to expand...


We are talking about a completely irresponsible person here.  From the report, it seems she doesn't know a word of English.  If you just got here last week, somewhat understandable.  But to not be able to communicate in a country you moved to 20 years ago?  Come on now.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Dschrute3 said:


> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rough interpretation of an interview I overheard on TV with the mother and a reporter
> Reporter: "Maam why did you not seek out citizenship in those 20 years"
> Illegal Mother: "Uhhh....ummmm...uhhhh...no..no Engleesh"
> Reporter: "Back to you Tom"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She couldn't speak English after 20yrs here? That would be pretty disturbing to me. And i'm not trying to be cruel, but is she receiving Government Entitlements too? I know another poster asked about that as well. Because that seems to be another big problem with our current System. The Government Entitlements act as a magnet for Illegals.
Click to expand...


Just go to the OP and play the recording.  You'll see she looks at people speaking English like she's deaf.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
Click to expand...

lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.  

Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.  

Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.


----------



## heil hitler

Dschrute3 said:


> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rough interpretation of an interview I overheard on TV with the mother and a reporter
> Reporter: "Maam why did you not seek out citizenship in those 20 years"
> Illegal Mother: "Uhhh....ummmm...uhhhh...no..no Engleesh"
> Reporter: "Back to you Tom"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She couldn't speak English after 20yrs here? That would be pretty disturbing to me. And i'm not trying to be cruel, but is she receiving Government Entitlements too? I know another poster asked about that as well. Because that seems to be another big problem with our current System. The Government Entitlements act as a magnet for Illegals.
Click to expand...


Look up
There is that gullible you've been looking for!


----------



## Dschrute3

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rough interpretation of an interview I overheard on TV with the mother and a reporter
> Reporter: "Maam why did you not seek out citizenship in those 20 years"
> Illegal Mother: "Uhhh....ummmm...uhhhh...no..no Engleesh"
> Reporter: "Back to you Tom"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She couldn't speak English after 20yrs here? That would be pretty disturbing to me. And i'm not trying to be cruel, but is she receiving Government Entitlements too? I know another poster asked about that as well. Because that seems to be another big problem with our current System. The Government Entitlements act as a magnet for Illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just go to the OP and play the recording.  You'll see she looks at people speaking English like she's deaf.
Click to expand...


That would be pretty shocking. And i'll have to look into whether or not she's receiving Government Entitlements. I mean i'm sympathetic, but only up to a point.


----------



## heil hitler

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
Click to expand...


That post was so good I got blood flow.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
Click to expand...

Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.


----------



## Old Yeller

whitehall said:


> Try crossing into the Muslem countries that the left seems to protect or a Sharia dominated country with a fake visa or try entering North Korea and get 15 years at hard labor. I'm sure U.S. authorities would not stop the children from going to Mexico with their mother. Get used to it lefties, the criminals who are in the U.S. illegally are going back if they commit a crime.




6 mos later, Mexico would lock up the kids for being down there illegally............or over-stay of "reverse" Visa.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Dschrute3 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't she try to become a citizen during the 18 years?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rough interpretation of an interview I overheard on TV with the mother and a reporter
> Reporter: "Maam why did you not seek out citizenship in those 20 years"
> Illegal Mother: "Uhhh....ummmm...uhhhh...no..no Engleesh"
> Reporter: "Back to you Tom"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She couldn't speak English after 20yrs here? That would be pretty disturbing to me. And i'm not trying to be cruel, but is she receiving Government Entitlements too? I know another poster asked about that as well. Because that seems to be another big problem with our current System. The Government Entitlements act as a magnet for Illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just go to the OP and play the recording.  You'll see she looks at people speaking English like she's deaf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be pretty shocking. And i'll have to look into whether or not she's receiving Government Entitlements. I mean i'm sympathetic, but only up to a point.
Click to expand...


Well..... she's an illegal so apparently she's not working.  She's married and has four kids.  Her husband would have to be in the six figure range to support a family of 6 (which most American bread earners can't do) in  Chicago of  all places where everything is expensive.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Dschrute3 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a compassionate person. So i hope something can be worked out for her. I don't wanna see a family torn apart. But the message does have to be sent that Illegal Immigration is coming to an end. So unfortunately, these kinds of things are gonna happen again.
> 
> My advice to folks wanting to come here, is to do it the legal way. We have a System in place for that to happen. When you knowingly break the law, you have to accept that there could be consequences. We are a nation of laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that there are probably tens  of thousands just like her, and every time one with kids gets  booted  out, the  media will have another picnic.  Because let's face it, if it weren't for her FOUR kids that she  probably isn't  supporting, it  would be a non-story.  But the media  loves to use children to  jerk a tear or two from their viewers or readers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, the Open Borders Leftists love this stuff. They'll use the kids for sure. But i am pretty sympathetic. These kinds of situations can be worked out. I'm ok with that, as long as our Government gets serious about Border Security and ending Illegal Immigration. But if it's just gonna continue to be an Open Borders free-for-all, i'm less inclined to be as sympathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These kids can go back with her.  It happens all the time.  Parent(s) get a job ten states away, and they just pack their bags and move.  I like to watch HGTV  where they feature  people buying homes.  American families move to other countries all the time, and yes, with kids.  They  have to learn a totally new culture, a totally new  language, and they get along just fine.
> 
> If we had some law that stated the kids have to stay in the US, I would be more sympathetic.  We have a law  that says she has to go, but no law that states she can't take her family with  her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hear ya. But if she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, i could work with her. Just how i feel anyway.
Click to expand...

She does have a criminal offense she had a fake passport you know a CRIME.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

toomuchtime_ said:


> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty. There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.



Calling an illegal an undocumented immigrant is like calling the heroin pusher an unlicensed doctor.


----------



## Borillar

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You make a good argument. I don't disagree with your points. My disagreement is with the system that allows deportations like this to happen and I do think that there is a *moral problem* with what happened *here*, not particularly a legal one.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah - the "moral problem here" is that she lacked morals and attempted to obtain a visa with false credentials. That is further compounded by the severe "moral problem here" that you want to absolve her of all personal responsibility and blame all of society for her self-created problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is immoral and pretty fucked up for our Immigration agency to allow her to stay here for 18 years then kick her out. Its fucked up to her, her family and her community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it would be less fucked  up if  they kicked  her out 20 years ago?
Click to expand...

Actually, yes. If they acted appropriately and deported her when they discovered the fraudulent papers, she wouldn't be here with 4 anchor babies and a misplaced sense of entitlement.


----------



## Markle

Slade3200 said:


> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans



How does that work?  Everyone in the World has an INALIENABLE RIGHT to come to America?

No different than any other criminal.

For 20 years she had no second thoughts about becoming a legal immigrant or a citizen and was a happy camper.  She and the family are ONLY SORRY because they got CAUGHT.

You never see a criminal weeping because they are sorry for committing a crime, ONLY for getting caught.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rob37 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The woman's predicament is caused by her own choices. She chose to come here illegally and she chose to remain her illegally. She could of come forward at any time and applied for citizenship, yet she chose not to. This issue has been in the headlines for years now. But instead of doing anything, she chose to do nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If any politicians are to blame for her predicament, it's the open borders douche bags who refused to enforce the law for 20 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could probably trace it back to Reagan but regardless of whose fault it is the fact remains that she was told what to do and she did it. She now has a life and a family of American citizens who live her. I understand you are an immigration hard ass and thats fine. But acknowledging the human side of this situation and admitting that some fucked up things are happening is what needs to happen to close the gap.
> 
> The race card gets played too much, but when you take a hard headed heartless attitude in the face of these types of situations it really does make you come off as racists. Do you understand that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does "acknowledging the human side of this situation" entail?  Does that mean giving her a free pass?  Yeah, some fucked up things have happened with regard to immigration, but they all occurred under the policies you support.
> 
> If you don't believe our laws should be enforced, just admit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should do way better with our visa tracking and border enforcement, the wall is a waste. I also think we need to have a system to deal with millions of undocumented in our country and shipping them out is not a smart idea. They should all be able to register, pay taxes, and pay their dues to earn either legal status or citizenship... not hide in the shadows
Click to expand...


*I also think we need to have a system to deal with millions of undocumented*

They're illegal aliens. Often with stolen or forged documents.

*shipping them out is not a smart idea.*

Jail them first?

*They should all be able to register, pay taxes, and pay their dues to earn either legal status or citizenship... not hide in the shadows*

They should come out of the shadows, back in their home country.


----------



## miketx

When we are dealing with illegals it should be UN alienable because they are UN wanted here. You libs oughta take in to your home and take care of them. Of course you libs will  have to be responsible for them. Wait, did I just say "lib" and "responsible" in the same sentence?


----------



## Slade3200

miketx said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!
Click to expand...

She did exactly what ICE told her to do for 18 years ya dumbass


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are talking about a completely irresponsible person here.  From the report, it seems she doesn't know a word of English.  If you just got here last week, somewhat understandable.  But to not be able to communicate in a country you moved to 20 years ago?  Come on now.
Click to expand...

I speak Spanish pretty decent, but if I was being interviewed on Spanish TV I'm defaulting to English. Stop making assumptions about things you know nothing about.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
Click to expand...

I said legal not citizen. I'd be fine with citizenship but I know the hizzy y'all get into when it comes to the vote so legal is a fine compromise as far as I'm concerned


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using fraudulent papers should have meant she was deported at the time she was caught.
> 
> Because the previous governments allowed her to stay was their choice but what she did was a automatic deportation and because it is happening now is sad for her family but law is the law.
> 
> I know you will most likely tell me I am harsh and should be deported instead but think of it this way if you illegally enter Mexico or let say North Korea with fake papers what would happen!?!
> 
> If you write well that is different, well sure but other countries would toss you in prison and after your family paid or you did your time they would then deport you, well North Korea might kill you.
> 
> So her just checking in over eighteen years was nice but the government has told her it is time to leave.
> 
> Her family has hard decision to make and they need to remember their family members broke the law and in the end they knew she was not staying and if they did not know this, well they should have known...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually agree, if the law says that people illegally crossing the border get deported then thats what should have happened. If she wasn't deported and instead she was told she could stay if she checked in with ICE twice a year and thats what she did then it is pretty messed up to deport her after 18 years of doing what she was supposed to do. If the situation played out like this then it is our government that messed up and we need to take responsibly for that. Deporting her is the wrong move.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With checking in she was not going to stay. Over the years they were punting the decision to the next year, and now she has been told she need to leave.
> 
> You do understand if she was going to be granted a stay the government would have done it and not require her to report in.
> 
> So it will be sad for her family members but in the end she was not staying.
Click to expand...


_CHICAGO__ — An undocumented Mexican immigrant pleaded publicly Monday for a chance to stay in the country with her husband and six children, and sought to delay any action until after the next president takes office._

_An attorney for __Francisca Lino__ — who was scheduled to be deported Tuesday — filed a petition with __U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement__ to delay her deportation for one year. _

Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
Click to expand...

I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said legal not citizen. I'd be fine with citizenship but I know the hizzy y'all get into when it comes to the vote so legal is a fine compromise as far as I'm concerned
Click to expand...

Actually, you said with a path to citizenship but even if was only legal, the message to all the people who might want to come here illegally is the same, it's ok to to violate US immigration laws because once you get in, they will make you legal.  It is still an open invitation to enter the US illegally.


----------



## miketx

Slade3200 said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She did exactly what ICE told her to do for 18 years ya dumbass
Click to expand...


Reported.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> miketx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are talking about a completely irresponsible person here.  From the report, it seems she doesn't know a word of English.  If you just got here last week, somewhat understandable.  But to not be able to communicate in a country you moved to 20 years ago?  Come on now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I speak Spanish pretty decent, but if I was being interviewed on Spanish TV I'm defaulting to English. Stop making assumptions about things you know nothing about.
Click to expand...


She couldn't communicate in English.  That's not an assumption, that's on the  video you posted.  She needed somebody to translate for her.


----------



## miketx

I guarantee that if I lived in Mexico for a year or less I could speak the language. Not prefect maybe but well enough to communicate.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
Click to expand...


We don't need any more people here.  We have enough of them.  315 million is  not a nation  starving for more  population.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Old Yeller said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try crossing into the Muslem countries that the left seems to protect or a Sharia dominated country with a fake visa or try entering North Korea and get 15 years at hard labor. I'm sure U.S. authorities would not stop the children from going to Mexico with their mother. Get used to it lefties, the criminals who are in the U.S. illegally are going back if they commit a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6 mos later, Mexico would lock up the kids for being down there illegally............or over-stay of "reverse" Visa.
Click to expand...


If the mother is Mexican, wouldn't her kids be Mexican citizens also?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
Click to expand...

It takes years to get here because so many people want to come and the US can only reasonably accept fewer; there's nothing wrong with the system but there is something wrong with the rest of the world that can't provide for its own people.

Something is being done about the millions of illegals who are already here, they are being sent back.  Those that show remorse for breaking our laws by turning themselves in and leaving voluntarily will get a second chance to apply for legal immigration without this violation of US law being held against them and those who are deported will never be allowed to enter the US legally again.  

You use the word, undocumented, instead of illegal because you are essentially dishonest and irresponsible and have no respect for US immigration laws or US sovereignty.  Your claim to believe in inalienable human rights is your attempt to justify being a dishonest, irresponsible asshole.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
Click to expand...

Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try crossing into the Muslem countries that the left seems to protect or a Sharia dominated country with a fake visa or try entering North Korea and get 15 years at hard labor. I'm sure U.S. authorities would not stop the children from going to Mexico with their mother. Get used to it lefties, the criminals who are in the U.S. illegally are going back if they commit a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6 mos later, Mexico would lock up the kids for being down there illegally............or over-stay of "reverse" Visa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the mother is Mexican, wouldn't her kids be Mexican citizens also?
Click to expand...

If either parent is a US citizen at the time of the birth, then the child is a natural born US citizen.


----------



## Slade3200

Markle said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does that work?  Everyone in the World has an INALIENABLE RIGHT to come to America?
> 
> No different than any other criminal.
> 
> For 20 years she had no second thoughts about becoming a legal immigrant or a citizen and was a happy camper.  She and the family are ONLY SORRY because they got CAUGHT.
> 
> You never see a criminal weeping because they are sorry for committing a crime, ONLY for getting caught.
Click to expand...

For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story. For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth. Now that the orange prince is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot. Imagine for a second that this happened to your family or the family of somebody you love. It would suck


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## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
Click to expand...


Common criminals go to prison.  We're just telling her the party is over and go home. 

We can't take in every single person  with a hardship story about their  country.  We spent plenty of money, had wars--even against each other  to make this country what it is today.  We are very generous with our country by allowing one million foreigners to join us every single year.  That's enough already.


----------



## miketx

Slade3200 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does that work?  Everyone in the World has an INALIENABLE RIGHT to come to America?
> 
> No different than any other criminal.
> 
> For 20 years she had no second thoughts about becoming a legal immigrant or a citizen and was a happy camper.  She and the family are ONLY SORRY because they got CAUGHT.
> 
> You never see a criminal weeping because they are sorry for committing a crime, ONLY for getting caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story. For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth. Now that the orange prince is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot. Imagine for a second that this happened to your family or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
Click to expand...

So the government didn't do it's job then? No surprise, that's why we are over ran with them. I feel bad for her, but she had plenty of time to fix it.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
Click to expand...

That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
Click to expand...




Slade3200 said:


> I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole




They are human.

They are also in this country ILLEGALLY.

"undocumented"

PC bullshit.

You can call a trash man a Sanitation Engineer, but his job hasn't changed.

You can call a prison guard a corrections officer, but his job hasn't changed.

You can make up PC names for everything under the sun, but it wont' change the facts.

She is here ILLEGALLY, not UNDOCUMENTED.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

I have no sympathy for illegals NONE. My family members can't get here because we are over run with millions of illegals and you turds want to make it so millions more come.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
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> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> 
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said legal not citizen. I'd be fine with citizenship but I know the hizzy y'all get into when it comes to the vote so legal is a fine compromise as far as I'm concerned
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you said with a path to citizenship but even if was only legal, the message to all the people who might want to come here illegally is the same, it's ok to to violate US immigration laws because once you get in, they will make you legal.  It is still an open invitation to enter the US illegally.
Click to expand...

It's not an invitation if there are penalties fines and a harder pathway for coming here illegally. I said everybody in the world has a pathway to citizenship here. Read slower


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> miketx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are talking about a completely irresponsible person here.  From the report, it seems she doesn't know a word of English.  If you just got here last week, somewhat understandable.  But to not be able to communicate in a country you moved to 20 years ago?  Come on now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I speak Spanish pretty decent, but if I was being interviewed on Spanish TV I'm defaulting to English. Stop making assumptions about things you know nothing about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She couldn't communicate in English.  That's not an assumption, that's on the  video you posted.  She needed somebody to translate for her.
Click to expand...

Again you presume things without really knowing. Perhaps she shy about how she sounds speaking English. You just don't know


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said legal not citizen. I'd be fine with citizenship but I know the hizzy y'all get into when it comes to the vote so legal is a fine compromise as far as I'm concerned
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you said with a path to citizenship but even if was only legal, the message to all the people who might want to come here illegally is the same, it's ok to to violate US immigration laws because once you get in, they will make you legal.  It is still an open invitation to enter the US illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not an invitation if there are penalties fines and a harder pathway for coming here illegally. I said everybody in the world has a pathway to citizenship here. Read slower
Click to expand...

Reagan amnestied 2 million and because of that we got 20 million more you dumb ass.


----------



## Kondor3

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, Mamacita...

Take your litter of Anchor Baby pups with you...


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> 
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need any more people here.  We have enough of them.  315 million is  not a nation  starving for more  population.
Click to expand...

Drive across a few states. There is plenty of room


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
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> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need any more people here.  We have enough of them.  315 million is  not a nation  starving for more  population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drive across a few states. There is plenty of room
Click to expand...


Didn't say we didn't have any room, what I said is we  don't need anymore people here.  These people have nothing  to offer us and are no contribution  to our society.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
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> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
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> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
Click to expand...

I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.

I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
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> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> miketx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> How could American citizens put themselves in that position? The woman had twenty years to fix her problem. She did nothing. Take her kids with her to Mexico. I don't feel bad for them at all. SHE HAD TWENTY YEARS TO FIX IT!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are talking about a completely irresponsible person here.  From the report, it seems she doesn't know a word of English.  If you just got here last week, somewhat understandable.  But to not be able to communicate in a country you moved to 20 years ago?  Come on now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I speak Spanish pretty decent, but if I was being interviewed on Spanish TV I'm defaulting to English. Stop making assumptions about things you know nothing about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She couldn't communicate in English.  That's not an assumption, that's on the  video you posted.  She needed somebody to translate for her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again you presume things without really knowing. Perhaps she shy about how she sounds speaking English. You just don't know
Click to expand...


What I know is I  don't need an interpreter to understand what anybody is saying to me.  As for your coy theory, she needed an interpreter to tell her what the people speaking English were saying to her.


----------



## Slade3200

WillHaftawaite said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> 
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are human.
> 
> They are also in this country ILLEGALLY.
> 
> "undocumented"
> 
> PC bullshit.
> 
> You can call a trash man a Sanitation Engineer, but his job hasn't changed.
> 
> You can call a prison guard a corrections officer, but his job hasn't changed.
> 
> You can make up PC names for everything under the sun, but it wont' change the facts.
> 
> She is here ILLEGALLY, not UNDOCUMENTED.
Click to expand...

You can also call a black man a Niger. Go try it out a few times and see how it works out for ya.


----------



## Slade3200

RetiredGySgt said:


> I have no sympathy for illegals NONE. My family members can't get here because we are over run with millions of illegals and you turds want to make it so millions more come.


I would love for our system to make the pathway for your family members quicker and easier. If they are good hard working people with family that live here they shouldnt be waiting for so long.


----------



## AgentSparky

Slade3200 said:


> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story


.

Everyone read and understood the first 29 times you told the story.  Has it occurred to you that most people have no sympathy for criminal trespassers that forges government documents and leaches off the tax payers for entitlements for 20 years?  You need to broaden your tunnel vision. 



Slade3200 said:


> For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth.


.
She was more than lucky to get to stay for those additional 18 years and yet you're still complaining.


Slade3200 said:


> Now that the orange prince .


.
Racist much?



Slade3200 said:


> is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot.


.
You mean Trump is finally enforcing the law of the land made by our founding fathers????  My God, the horror!!!!


Slade3200 said:


> Imagine for a second that this happened to your family


My grandparents came here LEGALLY from Italy. They didn't jump no borders nor did they forge government documents. They learn to speak English and worked hard to provide for the family instead of leaching off the tax payers for welfare. Can you not see the difference?
Also for the 30th time, do you know what ILLEGAL immigrant means?  How can you not comprehend that? 


Slade3200 said:


> or the family of somebody you love. It would suck


I don't associate with criminals.

Also during the first 30 times you told this story, why no mention on how much money she sucked out of the tax payers for welfare?  How many times did she illegally voted?


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need any more people here.  We have enough of them.  315 million is  not a nation  starving for more  population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drive across a few states. There is plenty of room
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't say we didn't have any room, what I said is we  don't need anymore people here.  These people have nothing  to offer us and are no contribution  to our society.
Click to expand...

Most of them do the jobs that our spoiled entitled asses don't want to do. And they get completely taken advantage of. That's a fact.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need any more people here.  We have enough of them.  315 million is  not a nation  starving for more  population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drive across a few states. There is plenty of room
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't say we didn't have any room, what I said is we  don't need anymore people here.  These people have nothing  to offer us and are no contribution  to our society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most of them do the jobs that our spoiled entitled asses don't want to do. And they get completely taken advantage of. That's a fact.
Click to expand...


There are no jobs an American won't do provided the compensation is fair..  When these people come  here and take our jobs, it lowers wages for us real Americans.  We don't need that right now.


----------



## Slade3200

AgentSparky said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Everyone read and understood the first 29 times you told the story.  Has it occurred to you that most people have no sympathy for criminal trespassers that forges government documents and leaches off the tax payers for entitlements for 20 years?  You need to broaden your tunnel vision.
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> She was more than lucky to get to stay for those additional 18 years and yet you're still complaining.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the orange prince .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> Racist much?
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> You mean Trump is finally enforcing the law of the land made by our founding fathers????  My God, the horror!!!!
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine for a second that this happened to your family
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My grandparents came here LEGALLY from Italy. They didn't jump no borders nor did they forge government documents. They learn to speak English and worked hard to provide for the family instead of leaching off the tax payers for welfare. Can you not see the difference?
> Also for the 30th time, do you know what ILLEGAL immigrant means?  How can you not comprehend that?
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't associate with criminals.
> 
> Also during the first 30 times you told this story, why no mention on how much money she sucked out of the tax payers for welfare?  How many times did she illegally voted?
Click to expand...

I don't have any of those details so why would I come t about them. You are just gonna presume she was illegally voting and milking our welfare system? Real smart


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

toomuchtime_ said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try crossing into the Muslem countries that the left seems to protect or a Sharia dominated country with a fake visa or try entering North Korea and get 15 years at hard labor. I'm sure U.S. authorities would not stop the children from going to Mexico with their mother. Get used to it lefties, the criminals who are in the U.S. illegally are going back if they commit a crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6 mos later, Mexico would lock up the kids for being down there illegally............or over-stay of "reverse" Visa.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the mother is Mexican, wouldn't her kids be Mexican citizens also?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If either parent is a US citizen at the time of the birth, then the child is a natural born US citizen.
Click to expand...


Try reading the thread.  Your response has nothing to do with the discussion.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does that work?  Everyone in the World has an INALIENABLE RIGHT to come to America?
> 
> No different than any other criminal.
> 
> For 20 years she had no second thoughts about becoming a legal immigrant or a citizen and was a happy camper.  She and the family are ONLY SORRY because they got CAUGHT.
> 
> You never see a criminal weeping because they are sorry for committing a crime, ONLY for getting caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story. For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth. Now that the orange prince is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot. Imagine for a second that this happened to your family or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
Click to expand...


Nope.  Can't happen.  I don't have illegal aliens in my family.


----------



## AgentSparky

Slade3200 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no sympathy for illegals NONE. My family members can't get here because we are over run with millions of illegals and you turds want to make it so millions more come.
> 
> 
> 
> I would love for our system to make the pathway for your family members quicker and easier. If they are good hard working people with family that live here they shouldnt be waiting for so long.
Click to expand...


RetiredGySgt has already explained that he can't get his family here because too many ILLEGALS such as that document forger woman that you adore so much and millions like her has cut in line draining resources.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> AgentSparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Everyone read and understood the first 29 times you told the story.  Has it occurred to you that most people have no sympathy for criminal trespassers that forges government documents and leaches off the tax payers for entitlements for 20 years?  You need to broaden your tunnel vision.
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> She was more than lucky to get to stay for those additional 18 years and yet you're still complaining.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the orange prince .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> Racist much?
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> You mean Trump is finally enforcing the law of the land made by our founding fathers????  My God, the horror!!!!
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine for a second that this happened to your family
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My grandparents came here LEGALLY from Italy. They didn't jump no borders nor did they forge government documents. They learn to speak English and worked hard to provide for the family instead of leaching off the tax payers for welfare. Can you not see the difference?
> Also for the 30th time, do you know what ILLEGAL immigrant means?  How can you not comprehend that?
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't associate with criminals.
> 
> Also during the first 30 times you told this story, why no mention on how much money she sucked out of the tax payers for welfare?  How many times did she illegally voted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have any of those details so why would I come t about them. You are just gonna presume she was illegally voting and milking our welfare system? Real smart
Click to expand...


She obviously wasn't wasting her time trying to learn how to speak English!


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need any more people here.  We have enough of them.  315 million is  not a nation  starving for more  population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drive across a few states. There is plenty of room
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't say we didn't have any room, what I said is we  don't need anymore people here.  These people have nothing  to offer us and are no contribution  to our society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most of them do the jobs that our spoiled entitled asses don't want to do. And they get completely taken advantage of. That's a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no jobs an American won't do provided the compensation is fair..  When these people come  here and take our jobs, it lowers wages for us real Americans.  We don't need that right now.
Click to expand...

That's your opinion. I'd hope educated American citizens would strive a little higher in the workforce than immigrants that are still trying to learn the language and earn their citizenship


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America *and I respect some laws* and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
Click to expand...



There is your problem.  If you do not respect all laws, you are no better than those who break those laws.


----------



## Slade3200

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does that work?  Everyone in the World has an INALIENABLE RIGHT to come to America?
> 
> No different than any other criminal.
> 
> For 20 years she had no second thoughts about becoming a legal immigrant or a citizen and was a happy camper.  She and the family are ONLY SORRY because they got CAUGHT.
> 
> You never see a criminal weeping because they are sorry for committing a crime, ONLY for getting caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story. For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth. Now that the orange prince is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot. Imagine for a second that this happened to your family or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope.  Can't happen.  I don't have illegal aliens in my family.
Click to expand...

Never know who your kids or grandkids will fall in love with. Maybe they will bring one home and you'll get some perspective


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think a system that makes people wait years before being able to come into our country is broken so that needs to be improved upon. As for the undocumented that are here something needs to be done and there will be a pathway presented in the near future as it is the only logical way to deal with the problem. I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are human.
> 
> They are also in this country ILLEGALLY.
> 
> "undocumented"
> 
> PC bullshit.
> 
> You can call a trash man a Sanitation Engineer, but his job hasn't changed.
> 
> You can call a prison guard a corrections officer, but his job hasn't changed.
> 
> You can make up PC names for everything under the sun, but it wont' change the facts.
> 
> She is here ILLEGALLY, not UNDOCUMENTED.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can also call a black man a Niger. Go try it out a few times and see how it works out for ya.
Click to expand...


Why would you call him a nation in Africa?


----------



## Slade3200

AgentSparky said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no sympathy for illegals NONE. My family members can't get here because we are over run with millions of illegals and you turds want to make it so millions more come.
> 
> 
> 
> I would love for our system to make the pathway for your family members quicker and easier. If they are good hard working people with family that live here they shouldnt be waiting for so long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt has already explained that he can't get his family here because too many ILLEGALS such as that document forger woman that you adore so much and millions like her has cut in line draining resources.
Click to expand...

Not quite... there isn't a occupancy counter like they have at the night clubs.


----------



## Slade3200

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> 
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America *and I respect some laws* and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There is your problem.  If you do not respect all laws, you are no better than those who break those laws.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think that's been clearly stated by y'all. I'm a worthless liberal idiot, remember?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I believe in these things called inalienable rights for all humans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does that work?  Everyone in the World has an INALIENABLE RIGHT to come to America?
> 
> No different than any other criminal.
> 
> For 20 years she had no second thoughts about becoming a legal immigrant or a citizen and was a happy camper.  She and the family are ONLY SORRY because they got CAUGHT.
> 
> You never see a criminal weeping because they are sorry for committing a crime, ONLY for getting caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story. For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth. Now that the orange prince is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot. Imagine for a second that this happened to your family or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope.  Can't happen.  I don't have illegal aliens in my family.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never know who your kids or grandkids will fall in love with. Maybe they will bring one home and you'll get some perspective
Click to expand...


Nope.  I try very hard not to raise my kids and grandkids to be liberal dumbasses.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America *and I respect some laws* and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There is your problem.  If you do not respect all laws, you are no better than those who break those laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I think that's been clearly stated by y'all. I'm a worthless liberal idiot, remember?
Click to expand...


Most criminals do fall on the left side of the political spectrum.  It is the entitlement mentality that gets you in trouble.


----------



## 2aguy

Let's say that a guy steals money from the pensions of a bunch of people...with that money he is buying nice things for his kids and sending them to the best schools...then he gets caught.....the police confiscate the money and the kids have to move out of their really nice home and lose the ability to go to those expensive schools...is it sad for the kids..yes...but would you let the kids keep that money, even though it was stolen from other people?


----------



## AgentSparky

Slade3200 said:


> AgentSparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Everyone read and understood the first 29 times you told the story.  Has it occurred to you that most people have no sympathy for criminal trespassers that forges government documents and leaches off the tax payers for entitlements for 20 years?  You need to broaden your tunnel vision.
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> She was more than lucky to get to stay for those additional 18 years and yet you're still complaining.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the orange prince .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> Racist much?
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> You mean Trump is finally enforcing the law of the land made by our founding fathers????  My God, the horror!!!!
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine for a second that this happened to your family
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My grandparents came here LEGALLY from Italy. They didn't jump no borders nor did they forge government documents. They learn to speak English and worked hard to provide for the family instead of leaching off the tax payers for welfare. Can you not see the difference?
> Also for the 30th time, do you know what ILLEGAL immigrant means?  How can you not comprehend that?
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't associate with criminals.
> 
> Also during the first 30 times you told this story, why no mention on how much money she sucked out of the tax payers for welfare?  How many times did she illegally voted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have any of those details so why would I come t about them. You are just gonna presume she was illegally voting and milking our welfare system? Real smart
Click to expand...

And yet you danced around the rest of my posted response to you. Is it because you know that I'm right?


----------



## Slade3200

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America *and I respect some laws* and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There is your problem.  If you do not respect all laws, you are no better than those who break those laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I think that's been clearly stated by y'all. I'm a worthless liberal idiot, remember?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most criminals do fall on the left side of the political spectrum.  It is the entitlement mentality that gets you in trouble.
Click to expand...

I doubt many criminals are political. Of those that are I'm sure there is a chunk that support entitlements if they come from a poor socioeconomic background. Those middle class and white collar criminals are surely more right leaning supporting less government.


----------



## Eloy

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.


----------



## Slade3200

AgentSparky said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AgentSparky said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the 30th time I'll correct you simpletons who either ignore the facts or don't take the time to actually understand the story
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Everyone read and understood the first 29 times you told the story.  Has it occurred to you that most people have no sympathy for criminal trespassers that forges government documents and leaches off the tax payers for entitlements for 20 years?  You need to broaden your tunnel vision.
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For 18 years she voluntarily checked in with ICE as instructed and was told she could stay. Her visa violation made her unable to get legal papers so our government kept her in a state of limbo as she obided by the rules they set forth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> She was more than lucky to get to stay for those additional 18 years and yet you're still complaining.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that the orange prince .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> Racist much?
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> is ruling ICE seems to be getting more aggressive so when she checked in with ICE she got the boot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> You mean Trump is finally enforcing the law of the land made by our founding fathers????  My God, the horror!!!!
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine for a second that this happened to your family
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My grandparents came here LEGALLY from Italy. They didn't jump no borders nor did they forge government documents. They learn to speak English and worked hard to provide for the family instead of leaching off the tax payers for welfare. Can you not see the difference?
> Also for the 30th time, do you know what ILLEGAL immigrant means?  How can you not comprehend that?
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> or the family of somebody you love. It would suck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't associate with criminals.
> 
> Also during the first 30 times you told this story, why no mention on how much money she sucked out of the tax payers for welfare?  How many times did she illegally voted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have any of those details so why would I come t about them. You are just gonna presume she was illegally voting and milking our welfare system? Real smart
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet you danced around the rest of my posted response to you. Is it because you know that I'm right?
Click to expand...

I've already responded to that jazz multiple times in this thread. I'm tired of the broken record routine. You obviously don't get where I'm coming from. That's fine. Gbye


----------



## AgentSparky

Eloy said:


> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.



Says he who was on another thread demonizing the police for arresting an ILLEGAL immigrant in front of his daughters for DUI and had the nerve to say that there's nothing criminal about driving drunk.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> 
> 
> I love America *and I respect some laws* and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There is your problem.  If you do not respect all laws, you are no better than those who break those laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I think that's been clearly stated by y'all. I'm a worthless liberal idiot, remember?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most criminals do fall on the left side of the political spectrum.  It is the entitlement mentality that gets you in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt many criminals are political. Of those that are I'm sure there is a chunk that support entitlements if they come from a poor socioeconomic background. Those middle class and white collar criminals are surely more right leaning supporting less government.
Click to expand...


The attitude is entitlement mentality.  Libs have it and so do most criminals.


----------



## Correll

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?




Nothing is stopping her from taking her kids with her.


----------



## Missouri_Mike

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


She did not report for 18 years, only thee last two. And I don't feel bad for her at all. She is a criminal.


----------



## Slade3200

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love America *and I respect some laws* and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is your problem.  If you do not respect all laws, you are no better than those who break those laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I think that's been clearly stated by y'all. I'm a worthless liberal idiot, remember?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most criminals do fall on the left side of the political spectrum.  It is the entitlement mentality that gets you in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt many criminals are political. Of those that are I'm sure there is a chunk that support entitlements if they come from a poor socioeconomic background. Those middle class and white collar criminals are surely more right leaning supporting less government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The attitude is entitlement mentality.  Libs have it and so do most criminals.
Click to expand...

Like when Wall Street and bankers feel entitled to rip us off? You think those people lean left and want more regulations? I don't think so


----------



## Slade3200

Missouri_Mike said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She did not report for 18 years, only thee last two. And I don't feel bad for her at all. She is a criminal.
Click to expand...

I believe the report said she had been reporting for the past 12 years


----------



## Eloy

AgentSparky said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says he who was on another thread demonizing the police for arresting an ILLEGAL immigrant in front of his daughters for DUI and had the nerve to say that there's nothing criminal about driving drunk.
Click to expand...

Driving over the limit of alcohol when nobody was harmed is different to armed robbery, cocaine smuggling, or rape, you know ... the real bad hombres who will be deported by Trump.


----------



## Tresha91203

Slade3200 said:


> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
Click to expand...


Because we already tried that. We are not interested in that lie again. If we grant a path, the border will not be sealed. This time, we insist the border be sealed before any discussion of path to status.


----------



## Missouri_Mike

Slade3200 said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She did not report for 18 years, only the last two. And I don't feel bad for her at all. She is a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the report said she had been reporting for the past 12 years
Click to expand...

So you admit it wasn't for 18 like you claimed. I'm thinking you're still off by ten years.

So given that information let me ask you this. Does it matter? She's still a criminal who used a stolen ID to be here illegally. It's well past time for her to go.


----------



## Vastator

Thank god they've finally caught her! Who knows how many more welfare rats she'd have squatted out, if left running loose. As if 4 weren't enough... she likely would have dropped 2, maybe 3 more?  This madness has to end! I still think it's a miscarriage of justice that her kids are granted citizenship, solely by virtue of her squating them out in our yard. We need reform alright. Reform the 14th amendment!


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Vastator said:


> Thank god they've finally caught her! Who knows how many more welfare rats she'd have squatted out, if left running loose. As if 4 weren't enough... she likely would have dropped 2, maybe 3 more?  This madness has to end! I still think it's a miscarriage of justice that her kids are granted citizenship, solely by virtue of her squating them out in our yard. We need reform alright. Reform the 14th amendment!



_Oct 21, 2008
_
_CHICAGO__ — An undocumented Mexican immigrant pleaded publicly Monday for a chance to stay in the country *with her husband and six children*, and sought to delay any action until after the next president takes office._

_An attorney for __Francisca Lino__ — who was scheduled to be deported Tuesday — filed a petition with __U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement__ to delay her deportation for one year._

Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US.

She should have been deported in 2008.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> toomuchtime_ said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're not thinking out of the box, you're just simply not thinking.  Offering any path to citizenship for people who entered the US illegally is still an open invitation to 600,000,000 people living south of our border to violate our immigration laws: demonstrate your contempt for our laws by entering the US illegally and we will reward you by making you citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say make them citizens. Are we at the point were you start distorting my argument because you don't want to consider or discuss other ideas? I said a pathway to legal status... and I said A harder more expensive more intensive path. Maybe they pay fines, are required todo community service, serve in military etc. my point is, there should be a path for existing undocumented. Penalties including deportation for new illegal crossers, and a more incentivizing path for people who wait in line an immigrate the legal way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Don't try to hide from your own words, a path to citizenship means making them citizens.  Even with your fines and community service, what you are proposing is another amnesty, and this will only encourage more illegals to violate our immigration laws to get because the message you are sending is clear: violate our immigration laws and all you will have to do to become a US citizen is pay a fine and do some community service.  Make it apply only to those who are already here?  That's what you said the last time.
> 
> Undocumented is a weasel word.  Every time you call them undocumented instead of what they are, illegal, you are expressing your own contempt for our immigration laws, which is expressing contempt for US sovereignty, the same contempt for our laws and sovereignty these illegals expressed when they came here.  When you call them  undocumented instead of illegal, you are saying it makes little difference if they showed respect for our laws by coming here legally or contempt for our laws by violating them.
> 
> Why should some one in Mexico choose to wait years to emigrate to the US legally if he can cross the border illegally now and after paying a fine become a US citizen?  If we demonstrate we don't respect our own laws, as you clearly don't, by allowing illegals to become citizens, why would we expect anyone else to respect our laws?  If we are to control our borders we must send a clear message that if you enter the US legally, we will make you welcome, but if you come illegally, we will do  our best to make you unwelcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said legal not citizen. I'd be fine with citizenship but I know the hizzy y'all get into when it comes to the vote so legal is a fine compromise as far as I'm concerned
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, you said with a path to citizenship but even if was only legal, the message to all the people who might want to come here illegally is the same, it's ok to to violate US immigration laws because once you get in, they will make you legal.  It is still an open invitation to enter the US illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not an invitation if there are penalties fines and a harder pathway for coming here illegally. I said everybody in the world has a pathway to citizenship here. Read slower
Click to expand...

More bullshit.  First, not everyone in the world has a path to citizenship in the US.  If she had been caught using forged documents to gain preferential treatment in her own country, she would have had a police record and would not have been eligible for a visa in the first place, let alone citizenship.   Whatever your notion of a penalty is, it will seem easier to some one in Mexico who wants to come than waiting for years to do it legally, so it is an open invitation to violate our immigration laws.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> toomuchtime_ said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
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> 
> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
Click to expand...

Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.  

When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Slade3200 said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
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> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is your problem.  If you do not respect all laws, you are no better than those who break those laws.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I think that's been clearly stated by y'all. I'm a worthless liberal idiot, remember?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most criminals do fall on the left side of the political spectrum.  It is the entitlement mentality that gets you in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt many criminals are political. Of those that are I'm sure there is a chunk that support entitlements if they come from a poor socioeconomic background. Those middle class and white collar criminals are surely more right leaning supporting less government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The attitude is entitlement mentality.  Libs have it and so do most criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like when Wall Street and bankers feel entitled to rip us off? You think those people lean left and want more regulations? I don't think so
Click to expand...


I don't usually deal with Wall Street or bankers, so it is sort of difficult for them to rip me off.  That doesn't mean I excuse their actions.  Criminals just happen to be liberals most of the time because they think they can get away with it.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan did have a big heart and it led to some bad policy decisions.  At the same time, there was a demand for cheap labor at that time, especially from the southwest and within the Republican Party.  It is always a mistake to choose not to enforce a law rather than to change it.  Obama, imo, was just a politician who was interested in capturing the Hispanic vote.
> 
> President Trump is taking measures to enforce the law as it is written, while Reagan and Obama took measures to avoid enforcing the law as it is written.  You can't effectively control the border if you send out the message, as Reagan did, that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay here  on a year to year basis forever, or even worse, to send out the message, as Obama did, that if you get here illegally we will give you a path to citizenship.  That's just bad policy and bad government.
> 
> 
> 
> Every foreigner has a pathway to live here legally and become a citizen. Why not create a harder, longer, more expensive path for those that Are here and undocumented. At least then we can work it out together instead of having millions hiding in the shadows. I'd think you hardliners would like this idea... this way we have record of all that are here and they will have to earn it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we did that, we would be sending a message to the 600,000,000 people living south of the border and all the other people living in poverty or danger in the world that if they can get here illegally, then they can become US citizens.  It makes no sense to bolster border security and then send invitations to everyone to violate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not necessarily. Crossing illegally and overstaying visas can still have penalties. AND the pathway for the undocumented can be less attractive and less incentivizing than the current legal path. Trying thinking out of the box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We already did that with the Reagan era amnesty.  You have to seal the border or you get what we got.  We do NOT need to rinse and repeat.  Amnesty has already been granted so the next step is to seal the border.  You don't get to keep repeating step 1.  Surely you see how that just creates an exponentially bigger problem.  Seal the border and then you can start talking "path to status," as the numbers are at least finite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
Click to expand...

Deport them all.

Sent from my SM-G930U using USMessageBoard.com mobile app


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Eloy said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
Click to expand...


Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.  

As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Slade3200 said:


> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?


 
My mother is a naturalized citizen.  She came here legally and followed the rules.

Was there no point in the last 20 years this woman could have applied for citizenship?


----------



## Correll

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
Click to expand...



Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?

No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.


Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.


----------



## Eloy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
Click to expand...

Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Correll said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
Click to expand...


Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals. 

I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.  

So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.  

Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...


How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.


----------



## Eloy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.
Click to expand...

I saw summaries on TV which took various examples of how much higher insurance will be for people if the law being proposed gets passed. It was quite ironic as those who will be hurt most are typical Trump voters.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
Click to expand...

The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally. 

Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable


----------



## Eloy

Grampa Murked U said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
Click to expand...

Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Eloy said:


> I could be wrong.



You usually are.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
Click to expand...

Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?

Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Eloy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
Click to expand...


It's one thing to have a heart for a family that did everything they could and failed.  It's another when the head  of the family did everything  wrong and failed.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Eloy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
Click to expand...

QQ


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
Click to expand...

_
Tuesday, October 21, 2008,

Lino and her husband own a home in the Chicago suburb of Woodridge. She works full-time in a factory, while he works an opposite shift as a school janitor. _

_Three of their children are citizens and the other three are legal residents. They range in age from 6 to 19.

Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US._


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Eloy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
Click to expand...

We're either a nation of laws or we a4e not.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw summaries on TV which took various examples of how much higher insurance will be for people if the law being proposed gets passed. It was quite ironic as those who will be hurt most are typical Trump voters.
Click to expand...


I  don't see how.  But in any case, insurance rates have doubled in places like Arizona.  The insurance isn't  worth crap and  doesn't  cover anything.  Trust me, I know.  I wrestled with Commie Care to get insurance myself.  It's a nightmare.  They want over 25% of my net  pay for a policy that has a 7K deductible and 7K out of pocket.  No dental, no prescription, and  even  a $50.00 copay for doctors visits.  How can it get any worse  than that?


----------



## Yarddog

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?




Im all for legal immigration, deporting all the criminal ones but beyond that I think we should still be capable of making some case by case exceptions when they come up like this one.


----------



## Correll

Yarddog said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im all for legal immigration, deporting all the criminal ones but beyond that I think we should still be capable of making some case by case exceptions when they come up like this one.
Click to expand...


The WHOLE POINT, of the left bringing up these cases is that they want to make law based on these extreme cases.


They want the open border.


----------



## Eloy

WillHaftawaite said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
Click to expand...

The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.


----------



## Correll

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
Click to expand...


But the point of bringing up this woman is to let those "Bad hombres" in. 

That is your goal.


----------



## Yarddog

Correll said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im all for legal immigration, deporting all the criminal ones but beyond that I think we should still be capable of making some case by case exceptions when they come up like this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The WHOLE POINT, of the left bringing up these cases is that they want to make law based on these extreme cases.
> 
> 
> They want the open border.
Click to expand...



Well that is probably true.  Theres probably millions who have been here less than 5 years and would most likely have no problem moving back. I think more focus should be put on people like that for all the obvious reasons.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> Tuesday, October 21, 2008,
> 
> Lino and her husband own a home in the Chicago suburb of Woodridge. She works full-time in a factory, while he works an opposite shift as a school janitor. _
> 
> _Three of their children are citizens and the other three are legal residents. They range in age from 6 to 19.
> 
> Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US._
Click to expand...


Now that's interesting.  They had  six kids and not four as the CNN report stated.  He works as a janitor and  she in a factory, and they make enough income to support six kids in Chicago?  What doesn't  add  up here?

After  we kick  her out, her  employer should be held responsible for giving an illegal  a job.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
Click to expand...


Not the point.

Is your head as soft as your heart?

She broke the law.

Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.

You're crying because it is breaking up the family.

When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.

I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.


----------



## Eloy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's one thing to have a heart for a family that did everything they could and failed.  It's another when the head  of the family did everything  wrong and failed.
Click to expand...

Hurting American children by deporting their father will not make America great again.


----------



## TomParks

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> Tuesday, October 21, 2008,
> 
> Lino and her husband own a home in the Chicago suburb of Woodridge. She works full-time in a factory, while he works an opposite shift as a school janitor. _
> 
> _Three of their children are citizens and the other three are legal residents. They range in age from 6 to 19.
> 
> Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting.  They had  six kids and not four as the CNN report stated.  He works as a janitor and  she in a factory, and they make enough income to support six kids in Chicago?  What doesn't  add  up here?
> 
> After  we kick  her out, her  employer should be held responsible for giving an illegal  a job.
Click to expand...


I would like to see an estimate on how much could be saved on entitlements by shipping their ass out....I bet billions


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

WillHaftawaite said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
Click to expand...

I can personally attest to this.


----------



## jasonnfree

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw summaries on TV which took various examples of how much higher insurance will be for people if the law being proposed gets passed. It was quite ironic as those who will be hurt most are typical Trump voters.
Click to expand...


If the obamacare penalty for not having insurance is dropped, the cost of living will go down for many people who don't want health insurance.


----------



## Rustic

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's one thing to have a heart for a family that did everything they could and failed.  It's another when the head  of the family did everything  wrong and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurting American children by deporting their father will not make America great again.
Click to expand...

Illegal is illegal


----------



## Eloy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> Tuesday, October 21, 2008,
> 
> Lino and her husband own a home in the Chicago suburb of Woodridge. She works full-time in a factory, while he works an opposite shift as a school janitor. _
> 
> _Three of their children are citizens and the other three are legal residents. They range in age from 6 to 19.
> 
> Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting.  They had  six kids and not four as the CNN report stated.  He works as a janitor and  she in a factory, and they make enough income to support six kids in Chicago?  What doesn't  add  up here?
> 
> After  we kick  her out, her  employer should be held responsible for giving an illegal  a job.
Click to expand...

If this is your idea of American greatness, you could not be more wrong.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's one thing to have a heart for a family that did everything they could and failed.  It's another when the head  of the family did everything  wrong and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurting American children by deporting their father will not make America great again.
Click to expand...


Neither will inviting people to come here illegally and break  our laws. 

For the people that want to come here and do the very same as this  woman, she will be an example of why they shouldn't, and I do think that will make America great again.


----------



## Rustic

Bleeding hearts can't bear the thought of deporting illegal aliens… That's a big reason why this country is so fucked up


----------



## Eloy

TomParks said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> Tuesday, October 21, 2008,
> 
> Lino and her husband own a home in the Chicago suburb of Woodridge. She works full-time in a factory, while he works an opposite shift as a school janitor. _
> 
> _Three of their children are citizens and the other three are legal residents. They range in age from 6 to 19.
> 
> Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting.  They had  six kids and not four as the CNN report stated.  He works as a janitor and  she in a factory, and they make enough income to support six kids in Chicago?  What doesn't  add  up here?
> 
> After  we kick  her out, her  employer should be held responsible for giving an illegal  a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would like to see an estimate on how much could be saved on entitlements by shipping their ass out....I bet billions
Click to expand...

Deporting mothers impoverishes America in more ways that you an comprehend.


----------



## bripat9643

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw summaries on TV which took various examples of how much higher insurance will be for people if the law being proposed gets passed. It was quite ironic as those who will be hurt most are typical Trump voters.
Click to expand...


How could it be higher than paying $1400 a month for a policy that has a total deductible for two people of $13,000?


----------



## Hugo Furst

Grampa Murked U said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can personally attest to this.
Click to expand...


10+ years as a CO, I can as well


----------



## bripat9643

Eloy said:


> TomParks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> Tuesday, October 21, 2008,
> 
> Lino and her husband own a home in the Chicago suburb of Woodridge. She works full-time in a factory, while he works an opposite shift as a school janitor. _
> 
> _Three of their children are citizens and the other three are legal residents. They range in age from 6 to 19.
> 
> Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting.  They had  six kids and not four as the CNN report stated.  He works as a janitor and  she in a factory, and they make enough income to support six kids in Chicago?  What doesn't  add  up here?
> 
> After  we kick  her out, her  employer should be held responsible for giving an illegal  a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would like to see an estimate on how much could be saved on entitlements by shipping their ass out....I bet billions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deporting mothers impoverishes America in more ways that you an comprehend.
Click to expand...



ROFL! How does deporting some ignorant sow who is spitting out future welfare parasites going to "impoverish" us?  Precisely the opposite is the case.  America will benefit immensely by ridding itself of a social pathology.


----------



## Eloy

Grampa Murked U said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can personally attest to this.
Click to expand...

A monkey would have more compassion than you demonstrate.


----------



## TomParks

Rand Paul has the best plan just my opinion.......


----------



## BrokeLoser

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



Sooo....She committed a crime 20 years ago and is just now paying a price for X crime? WOW! What a pussy ass country we are...huh? Take your husband and children back to beautiful Mexico with you...no break up required...problem solved. So what's the big issue here?


----------



## Eloy

jasonnfree said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this report and I understand Trump supporters see this as a way to make America great again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw summaries on TV which took various examples of how much higher insurance will be for people if the law being proposed gets passed. It was quite ironic as those who will be hurt most are typical Trump voters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the obamacare penalty for not having insurance is dropped, the cost of living will go down for many people who don't want health insurance.
Click to expand...

When Americans die they will have no insurance bills whatever. How about that?


----------



## TomParks

BrokeLoser said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sooo....She committed a crime 20 years ago and is just now paying a price for X crime? WOW! What a pussy ass country we are...huh? Take your husband and children back to beautiful Mexico with you...no break up required...problem solved. So what's the big issue here?
Click to expand...


Oh yeah and Mexico is spoiled too....20+ years of shitting on us and when we demand fairness they throw a damn fit


----------



## bripat9643

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's one thing to have a heart for a family that did everything they could and failed.  It's another when the head  of the family did everything  wrong and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurting American children by deporting their father will not make America great again.
Click to expand...


Yes it will.


----------



## Eloy

Rustic said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's one thing to have a heart for a family that did everything they could and failed.  It's another when the head  of the family did everything  wrong and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurting American children by deporting their father will not make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Illegal is illegal
Click to expand...

Sociopathy is sociopathy.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can personally attest to this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A monkey would have more compassion than you demonstrate.
Click to expand...




Eloy said:


> A monkey would have more compassion than you demonstrate.


and more brains than you demonstrate


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but I don't see why we can't discuss a plan about what to do about millions of undocumented people who live here at the same time as we work on the border
> 
> 
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
Click to expand...

Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.


----------



## Dschrute3

If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.


----------



## BrokeLoser

TomParks said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sooo....She committed a crime 20 years ago and is just now paying a price for X crime? WOW! What a pussy ass country we are...huh? Take your husband and children back to beautiful Mexico with you...no break up required...problem solved. So what's the big issue here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yeah and Mexico is spoiled too....20+ years of shitting on us and when we demand fairness they throw a damn fit
Click to expand...


Fuck those wetbacks...they've shit in our face long enough. They're done!


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, undocumented is a weasel word that suggests entering the US illegally is just a trivial clerical matter and not an expression of contempt for US law and sovereignty.   There is only one thing to do about the millions of illegals which sends the correct policy message to others who want to come here, send them back to where they came from.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
Click to expand...

lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.


----------



## Slade3200

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother is a naturalized citizen.  She came here legally and followed the rules.
> 
> Was there no point in the last 20 years this woman could have applied for citizenship?
Click to expand...

Not sure, from the limited information I got in the story she was unable to get legal papers and was told she could stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for 12 years. I'm sure there is more to the story but as it's told it's pretty heartbreaking... for those that have hearts.


----------



## Eloy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's one thing to have a heart for a family that did everything they could and failed.  It's another when the head  of the family did everything  wrong and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hurting American children by deporting their father will not make America great again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither will inviting people to come here illegally and break  our laws.
> 
> For the people that want to come here and do the very same as this  woman, she will be an example of why they shouldn't, and I do think that will make America great again.
Click to expand...

Your idea of greatness has a moral deficit. No country that equates the law with justice merits the term.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Dschrute3 said:


> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.



NEGATIVE!
Grab your sack and stop being afraid to do the right thing for the long term. They all have a sob story.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Eloy said:


> TomParks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the media ask any questions about how she supports them?
> 
> No matter what, that would contain information that does not help the narrative.
> 
> 
> Either she is a burden on society, or she has a job that some American could be doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> Tuesday, October 21, 2008,
> 
> Lino and her husband own a home in the Chicago suburb of Woodridge. She works full-time in a factory, while he works an opposite shift as a school janitor. _
> 
> _Three of their children are citizens and the other three are legal residents. They range in age from 6 to 19.
> 
> Illegal immigrant pleads for chance to stay in US._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's interesting.  They had  six kids and not four as the CNN report stated.  He works as a janitor and  she in a factory, and they make enough income to support six kids in Chicago?  What doesn't  add  up here?
> 
> After  we kick  her out, her  employer should be held responsible for giving an illegal  a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would like to see an estimate on how much could be saved on entitlements by shipping their ass out....I bet billions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deporting mothers impoverishes America in more ways that you an comprehend.
Click to expand...


We shouldn't separate them.
I'm sure Mexico will welcome the entire family.


----------



## Eloy

WillHaftawaite said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can personally attest to this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10+ years as a CO, I can as well
Click to expand...

God help your employees.


----------



## AgentSparky

Slade3200 said:


> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She did not report for 18 years, only thee last two. And I don't feel bad for her at all. She is a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the report said she had been reporting for the past 12 years
Click to expand...


First Slade she reported 2 times a year for 18 years and now it's down to a few times the last 12 years.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Slade3200 said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother is a naturalized citizen.  She came here legally and followed the rules.
> 
> Was there no point in the last 20 years this woman could have applied for citizenship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure, from the limited information I got in the story she was unable to get legal papers and was told she could stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for 12 years. I'm sure there is more to the story but as it's told it's pretty heartbreaking... for those that have hearts.
Click to expand...


I have a huge heart....and I'd love to use your checkbook to convey my concern?


----------



## Slade3200

Correll said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im all for legal immigration, deporting all the criminal ones but beyond that I think we should still be capable of making some case by case exceptions when they come up like this one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The WHOLE POINT, of the left bringing up these cases is that they want to make law based on these extreme cases.
> 
> 
> They want the open border.
Click to expand...

Wrong, people like me spread these stories to expose the real human element in this issue. It's a counter balance to those who talk about these people like they are filthy scum criminals running around raping and murdering innocent Americans.


----------



## Rustic

The Problem with all these illegal aliens is the cost of them to the country... socialism is nothing but diminishing return


----------



## Dschrute3

BrokeLoser said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE!
> Grab your sack and stop being afraid to do the right thing for the long term. They all have a sob story.
Click to expand...


She's harmless. Let her stay with her family. If we go too far, the Open Borders folks will sweep back into power.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



Yeah, make her work off the cost of her processing in a work camp making license plates and then drop her off the coast of Mexico about 3 miles and let her swim back home.

I am sick to death with these fucking criminals.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dschrute3 said:


> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.


Are you fine with twenty million more illegals coming here?  If she is allowed to stay, the message you are sending to some one in Mexico who is waiting for years ti emigrate to the US legally is, if you enter the US legally, they will allow you to stay, so why wait?  We cannot control illegal immigration if we are sending the message that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay legally.  You are suggesting, in effect, that in order to keep the open border Democrats from regaining power, Republicans have to become open border Republicans.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can personally attest to this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 10+ years as a CO, I can as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God help your employees.
Click to expand...


My 'employees'?

You have me confused.

I didn't have 'employees', I was in charge of various murderers, wife beaters, arsonists, drug peddlers, etc.

and not ON# of them had their wives staying with them.

A couple had their sons with them, but only because they took after daddy.


----------



## Eloy

WillHaftawaite said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can personally attest to this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A monkey would have more compassion than you demonstrate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> A monkey would have more compassion than you demonstrate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and more brains than you demonstrate
Click to expand...

You are correct; if I had more brains I would quit posting here.


----------



## Slade3200

WillHaftawaite said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, if she's an illegal, she shouldn't have a job, and it's the leftists  that constantly say we should hold those employers  responsible  for hiring illegals.
> 
> I read several articles about this  woman since the OP,  and not one discussed her husband.  WTF  is this guy at?  What  does he do for a living?  It seems to be part of her life they don't want to report.
> 
> So I have my suspicions.  I would think that if this husband was an American, he would be front and center in the media to support his wife.
> 
> Just too many holes in this story; too many questions  that were never addressed.
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
Click to expand...

The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud


----------



## jasonnfree

Eloy said:


> jasonnfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.   There is something about a UNIFORMED law and order that does make this country great.  Sorry you don't feel that way.  It's not like this woman mailed a form that didn't get to the immigration office.  It's not like she took every measure possible to correct the situation she was in.  It's not like she took her place in line like other foreigners who value this country.  She forged documents, snuck in, was allowed to stay while knowing she was illegal, and had a huge family anyway uncertain  of her plight.
> 
> As  I stated  repeatedly, she  has four children and no reports on how she  supports them.  Yes,  she  is married, but in a place like Chicago, the husband would have to be making a  six figure salary in order to support  a family of six.  It's easy to assume that besides having these kids, she had no way  to support them as well.  WE ARE SUPPORTING THEM!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw summaries on TV which took various examples of how much higher insurance will be for people if the law being proposed gets passed. It was quite ironic as those who will be hurt most are typical Trump voters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the obamacare penalty for not having insurance is dropped, the cost of living will go down for many people who don't want health insurance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Americans die they will have no insurance bills whatever. How about that?
Click to expand...


I will agree with you that if someone dies they will not have any insurance bills to pay, since they will be dead.  I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Slade3200 said:


> Wrong, people like me spread these stories to expose the real human element in this issue. It's a counter balance to those who talk about these people like they are filthy scum criminals running around raping and murdering innocent Americans.


No, you are running interference for  the drug cartels and the human traffickers that are exploiting millions of people in this country who should not be here, not to mention sustaining and maintaining public tolerance for a vast network of smuggling, safe houses and criminals that steal ID's and ruin lives of American citizens with ID theft, drugs and crime.

Fuck that bitch and every dumbass like you that thinks she is a victim.  She isnt.


----------



## Slade3200

AgentSparky said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She did not report for 18 years, only thee last two. And I don't feel bad for her at all. She is a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the report said she had been reporting for the past 12 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First Slade she reported 2 times a year for 18 years and now it's down to a few times the last 12 years.
Click to expand...

Yeah that was my mistake, I thought it was 18 then rewatched the story and heard the reporter say 12.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Slade3200 said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
Click to expand...

There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?


----------



## BrokeLoser

Dschrute3 said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEGATIVE!
> Grab your sack and stop being afraid to do the right thing for the long term. They all have a sob story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's harmless. Let her stay with her family. If we go too far, the Open Borders folks will sweep back into power.
Click to expand...


No way...like I said, they all have a touching back story. It's time to rule that border with an iron fist.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Slade3200 said:


> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud


You are defending that criminal and every thug that exploits her and millions like her.


----------



## Dschrute3

toomuchtime_ said:


> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you fine with twenty million more illegals coming here?  If she is allowed to stay, the message you are sending to some one in Mexico who is waiting for years ti emigrate to the US legally is, if you enter the US legally, they will allow you to stay, so why wait?  We cannot control illegal immigration if we are sending the message that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay legally.  You are suggesting, in effect, that in order to keep the open border Democrats from regaining power, Republicans have to become open border Republicans.
Click to expand...


Let's take it case by case. But at the same time, let's secure our border and end Illegal Immigration. I'm with you on that. But this woman isn't a threat to our nation. Let her stay with her family and let's move on.


----------



## Slade3200

BrokeLoser said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sooo....She committed a crime 20 years ago and is just now paying a price for X crime? WOW! What a pussy ass country we are...huh? Take your husband and children back to beautiful Mexico with you...no break up required...problem solved. So what's the big issue here?
Click to expand...

Obviously there is no issue in your mind. I've articulated my thoughts about it. I can't explain it any clearer 40 pages later.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Isnt that the stupid bitch that was convicted of Identity Theft?

How the hell is she a victim here? She should be busting rocks in prison.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only "hole" was the one she crawled through to enter illegally.
> 
> Not even sure why this thread is 40 pages long. She broke the law & was finally held accountable
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
Click to expand...



Bud, you want to call me a deplorable, have fun.

after 20+ years in the Navy, and 10+ as a prison guard, I don't worry about sissy names like that.

She broke the law, I want her to pay for that, you don't.

It's hard to tell which is softer, your heart, or your skull.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother is a naturalized citizen.  She came here legally and followed the rules.
> 
> Was there no point in the last 20 years this woman could have applied for citizenship?
Click to expand...

In fact, 18 years ago she did apply for a green card but in the course of investigating her application, it was discovered she had used false documents to gain a visa to come here in the first place, so she was denied a green card and she then had no path to citizenship.


----------



## JimBowie1958

WillHaftawaite said:


> It's hard to tell which is softer, your heart, or your skull.



Neither, his brain is the softest.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Dschrute3 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dschrute3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you fine with twenty million more illegals coming here?  If she is allowed to stay, the message you are sending to some one in Mexico who is waiting for years ti emigrate to the US legally is, if you enter the US legally, they will allow you to stay, so why wait?  We cannot control illegal immigration if we are sending the message that if you get here illegally, we will allow you to stay legally.  You are suggesting, in effect, that in order to keep the open border Democrats from regaining power, Republicans have to become open border Republicans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's take it case by case. But at the same time, let's secure our border and end Illegal Immigration. I'm with you on that. But this woman isn't a threat to our nation. Let her stay with her family and let's move on.
Click to expand...

Most of the illegals are individually not threats to our nation, so if that is the only criteria for allowing them to stay, why secure our borders or have immigration laws at all?


----------



## Eloy

jasonnfree said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jasonnfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I heard the cost of living in America is very high. It will be higher when Trump repeals the Affordable Care Act. But this might make America even greater. I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How will it be higher by getting rid of Commie Care?  Please explain those dynamics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I saw summaries on TV which took various examples of how much higher insurance will be for people if the law being proposed gets passed. It was quite ironic as those who will be hurt most are typical Trump voters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the obamacare penalty for not having insurance is dropped, the cost of living will go down for many people who don't want health insurance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When Americans die they will have no insurance bills whatever. How about that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will agree with you that if someone dies they will not have any insurance bills to pay, since they will be dead.  I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand.
Click to expand...

As long as poor people are still alive they will need help from the government for medical care..


----------



## TomParks

Dschrute3 said:


> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.



Your heart is in the right place, but we need to be strict with this. The majority are on Trumps side on this issue


----------



## JimBowie1958

toomuchtime_ said:


> Most of the illegals are individually not threats to our nation, so if that is the only criteria for allowing them to stay, why secure our borders or have immigration laws at all?


Suppose there was a group of kids that kept breaking into your house and watching your 64 inch TV, but every once in a while one of them might steal something or break something.

Suppose we were able to get rid of all the 'bad element' among those kids that were nicking things.

Would you still be OK with the little varmints breaking into your house and watching your TV whenever they wanted to?

Of course not unless you are an idiot.

They have no right to be there and illegal aliens have no right to be here either, and their continued egress in and out of this nation through the human trafficking underground is like termites eating holes in our national security.

You think they have not posed a threat by being here despite our nations efforts to enforce our laws and secure our borders?

Seriously?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Dschrute3 said:


> If she doesn't have any other criminal offenses, let her stay with her family. Let's not go all 'Nazi' on this. It will only create a massive backlash that will sweep the Open Borders Democrats back into power. So let's be reasonable. I'm fine with allowing here to stay.


How in the Sam Hell is enforcing our nations laws in regards to criminals 'going all Nazi'?

Stop losing your objectivity because of tear jerking propaganda.


----------



## Eloy

WillHaftawaite said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bud, you want to call me a deplorable, have fun.
> 
> after 20+ years in the Navy, and 10+ as a prison guard, I don't worry about sissy names like that.
> 
> She broke the law, I want her to pay for that, you don't.
> 
> It's hard to tell which is softer, your heart, or your skull.
Click to expand...

Please stop giving the navy a bad reputation.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to a degree I think it's trivial. It's paperwork. It's unfair to those who immigrate legally so there should be punishment, but banishment is too extreme IMO. I committed the same crime in high school. Got a fake ID to buy booze. I don't think I should be sent to jail 20 years later if  that ID was found. I believe in every humans unalienable right for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. While I committed my felony to buy booze these people committed theirs to give their family's a better life. Some coming from third world crime filled cesspools. While I think we need a system that works better and I believe we should be more organized than simple open borders, I also have compassion for these people as humans. They should face consequences but not be discarded like common criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
Click to expand...

If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.


----------



## toomuchtime_

JimBowie1958 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the illegals are individually not threats to our nation, so if that is the only criteria for allowing them to stay, why secure our borders or have immigration laws at all?
> 
> 
> 
> Suppose there was a group of kids that kept breaking into your house and watching your 64 inch TV, but every once in a while one of them might steal something or break something.
> 
> Suppose we were able to get rid of all the 'bad element' among those kids that were kicking things.
> 
> Would you still be OK with the little varmints breaking into your house and watching your TV whenever they wanted to?
> 
> Of course not unless you are an idiot.
> 
> They have no right to be there and illegal aliens have no right to be here either, and their continued egress in and out of this nation through the human trafficking udnerground is like termites eating holes in our national security.
> 
> You think they have not posed a threat by being here despite our nations efforts to enforce our laws and secure our borders?
> 
> Seriously?
Click to expand...

As I said, individually most do not pose a threat to our nation, but as a group, they certainly do.


----------



## Slade3200

BrokeLoser said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WILLHAFTAWAITE and Doc1... Did either of you put yourself in the position of this lady or her family. Think for just a second, what if this happened to my family?
> 
> Give one second to look at this with empathy or are you that selfish and entitled that you don't think that way about others?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother is a naturalized citizen.  She came here legally and followed the rules.
> 
> Was there no point in the last 20 years this woman could have applied for citizenship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure, from the limited information I got in the story she was unable to get legal papers and was told she could stay as long as she checked in with ICE twice a year which she did for 12 years. I'm sure there is more to the story but as it's told it's pretty heartbreaking... for those that have hearts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have a huge heart....and I'd love to use your checkbook to convey my concern?
Click to expand...

Those that act the way you do and proclaim to have a huge anything are usually overcompensating for subpar size deficits. You aren't fooling anybody


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bud, you want to call me a deplorable, have fun.
> 
> after 20+ years in the Navy, and 10+ as a prison guard, I don't worry about sissy names like that.
> 
> She broke the law, I want her to pay for that, you don't.
> 
> It's hard to tell which is softer, your heart, or your skull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please stop giving the navy a bad reputation.
Click to expand...



Only happening in your mind.


----------



## JimBowie1958

toomuchtime_ said:


> As I said, individually most do not pose a threat to our nation, but as a group, they certainly do.


No, each and every one of them could be a key terrorist needed for some act of destruction, or the next Identity theif that ruins an American citizens life by ruining his credit or causing him to lose his clearance with DWI charges, etc.

You are being an emotional punk.

Dry your tears and think of other AMERICANS instead, dude.

We have a RIGHT to the government ENFORCING DULY PASSED LAWS.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

WillHaftawaite said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bud, you want to call me a deplorable, have fun.
> 
> after 20+ years in the Navy, and 10+ as a prison guard, I don't worry about sissy names like that.
> 
> She broke the law, I want her to pay for that, you don't.
> 
> It's hard to tell which is softer, your heart, or your skull.
Click to expand...

You were a prison guard?!

I HATED you fuckers. Well, most of you


----------



## JimBowie1958

WillHaftawaite said:


> Only happening in your mind.


To the left today what happens in their little Snowflake minds is more important than what Reality has coming down on the heads.


----------



## Slade3200

Grampa Murked U said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone on *USMessageBoard* has a heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
Click to expand...

We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Slade3200 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
Click to expand...

Would you consider Trump partisan?


----------



## Eloy

Grampa Murked U said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you consider Trump partisan?
Click to expand...

Trump does not believe in political parties, only himself.


----------



## Slade3200

Grampa Murked U said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you consider Trump partisan?
Click to expand...

Not really, he plays both sides and doesn't fully subscribe to either ideology. It's his way or the highway. He is definitely divisive as shit


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> 
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
Click to expand...

The fact is you appear to be too dense to understand that there can be no such path to legalization without undermining our efforts to control illegal immigration.  If you were honest, you would admit there is no conceivable penalty that would make waiting years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Slade3200 said:


> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole.


Bullshit, that is not a legal line.

ENFORCE THE FUCKING LAWS.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
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> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is you appear to be too dense to understand that there can be no such path to legalization without undermining our efforts to control illegal immigration.  If you were honest, you would admit there is no conceivable penalty that would make waiting years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.
Click to expand...

I'm dense? Really original dude. Ready to be proven wrong, here I'll give you an extreme example that will easily prove my point. A more sever pathway for undocumented living in this country could entail military service or 10 years in a labor camp building infrastructure projects for the government, they could be charged an extra legalization tax limiting their earning potential, and only be able to obtain legal status not citizenship... im not proposing this as a solution but as you can see, not many would choose what I just laid out over the legal pathway which would lead to citizenship. Especially if we made the legal pathway quicker and better which we should do.


----------



## Slade3200

JimBowie1958 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole.
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, that is not a legal line.
> 
> ENFORCE THE FUCKING LAWS.
Click to expand...

Take a hike dude, you're just making noise


----------



## JimBowie1958

Slade3200 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ENFORCE THE FUCKING LAWS.
> 
> 
> 
> Take a hike dude, you're just making noise
Click to expand...

Lol, libtards think that enforcing the Gawd damned laws is just making noise, roflmao


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is you appear to be too dense to understand that there can be no such path to legalization without undermining our efforts to control illegal immigration.  If you were honest, you would admit there is no conceivable penalty that would make waiting years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm dense? Really original dude. Ready to be proven wrong, here I'll give you an extreme example that will easily prove my point. A more sever pathway for undocumented living in this country could entail military service or 10 years in a labor camp building infrastructure projects for the government, they could be charged an extra legalization tax limiting their earning potential, and only be able to obtain legal status not citizenship... im not proposing this as a solution but as you can see, not many would choose what I just laid out over the legal pathway which would lead to citizenship. Especially if we made the legal pathway quicker and better which we should do.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to prove you are too dense to understand the issue?  By coming up with these bizarre suggestions you are making the point there are no conceivable penalties that will make waiting for years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.  You could also have suggested they would have to cut off a limb because that would have been just as stupid as the proposals you did make.


----------



## Slade3200

JimBowie1958 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ENFORCE THE FUCKING LAWS.
> 
> 
> 
> Take a hike dude, you're just making noise
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, libtards think that enforcing the Gawd damned laws is just making noise, roflmao
Click to expand...

No It's your babble thats just making noise and not adding anything useful to the conversation


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> toomuchtime_ said:
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> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is you appear to be too dense to understand that there can be no such path to legalization without undermining our efforts to control illegal immigration.  If you were honest, you would admit there is no conceivable penalty that would make waiting years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm dense? Really original dude. Ready to be proven wrong, here I'll give you an extreme example that will easily prove my point. A more sever pathway for undocumented living in this country could entail military service or 10 years in a labor camp building infrastructure projects for the government, they could be charged an extra legalization tax limiting their earning potential, and only be able to obtain legal status not citizenship... im not proposing this as a solution but as you can see, not many would choose what I just laid out over the legal pathway which would lead to citizenship. Especially if we made the legal pathway quicker and better which we should do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to prove you are too dense to understand the issue?  By coming up with these bizarre suggestions you are making the point there are no conceivable penalties that will make waiting for years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.  You could also have suggested they would have to cut off a limb because that would have been just as stupid as the proposals you did make.
Click to expand...

Keep using my dense phrase, I can tell you like it. No charge.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact is you appear to be too dense to understand that there can be no such path to legalization without undermining our efforts to control illegal immigration.  If you were honest, you would admit there is no conceivable penalty that would make waiting years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm dense? Really original dude. Ready to be proven wrong, here I'll give you an extreme example that will easily prove my point. A more sever pathway for undocumented living in this country could entail military service or 10 years in a labor camp building infrastructure projects for the government, they could be charged an extra legalization tax limiting their earning potential, and only be able to obtain legal status not citizenship... im not proposing this as a solution but as you can see, not many would choose what I just laid out over the legal pathway which would lead to citizenship. Especially if we made the legal pathway quicker and better which we should do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to prove you are too dense to understand the issue?  By coming up with these bizarre suggestions you are making the point there are no conceivable penalties that will make waiting for years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.  You could also have suggested they would have to cut off a limb because that would have been just as stupid as the proposals you did make.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep using my dense phrase, I can tell you like it. No charge.
Click to expand...

Well, you keep trying to convince me you are too stupid to understand the issue, but I'm convinced you are only stupid enough to have fooled yourself into believing you are intelligent.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> toomuchtime_ said:
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you appear to be too dense to understand that there can be no such path to legalization without undermining our efforts to control illegal immigration.  If you were honest, you would admit there is no conceivable penalty that would make waiting years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm dense? Really original dude. Ready to be proven wrong, here I'll give you an extreme example that will easily prove my point. A more sever pathway for undocumented living in this country could entail military service or 10 years in a labor camp building infrastructure projects for the government, they could be charged an extra legalization tax limiting their earning potential, and only be able to obtain legal status not citizenship... im not proposing this as a solution but as you can see, not many would choose what I just laid out over the legal pathway which would lead to citizenship. Especially if we made the legal pathway quicker and better which we should do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to prove you are too dense to understand the issue?  By coming up with these bizarre suggestions you are making the point there are no conceivable penalties that will make waiting for years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.  You could also have suggested they would have to cut off a limb because that would have been just as stupid as the proposals you did make.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep using my dense phrase, I can tell you like it. No charge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, you keep trying to convince me you are too stupid to understand the issue, but I'm convinced you are only stupid enough to have fooled yourself into believing you are intelligent.
Click to expand...

Yeah because taxation and military/community service is just like cutting off a limb. Nice try dude. Time for you to go to sleep


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is you appear to be too dense to understand that there can be no such path to legalization without undermining our efforts to control illegal immigration.  If you were honest, you would admit there is no conceivable penalty that would make waiting years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm dense? Really original dude. Ready to be proven wrong, here I'll give you an extreme example that will easily prove my point. A more sever pathway for undocumented living in this country could entail military service or 10 years in a labor camp building infrastructure projects for the government, they could be charged an extra legalization tax limiting their earning potential, and only be able to obtain legal status not citizenship... im not proposing this as a solution but as you can see, not many would choose what I just laid out over the legal pathway which would lead to citizenship. Especially if we made the legal pathway quicker and better which we should do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you trying to prove you are too dense to understand the issue?  By coming up with these bizarre suggestions you are making the point there are no conceivable penalties that will make waiting for years for an immigrant visa more attractive than coming here illegally and paying the penalty.  You could also have suggested they would have to cut off a limb because that would have been just as stupid as the proposals you did make.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep using my dense phrase, I can tell you like it. No charge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, you keep trying to convince me you are too stupid to understand the issue, but I'm convinced you are only stupid enough to have fooled yourself into believing you are intelligent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah because taxation and military/community service is just like cutting off a limb. Nice try dude. Time for you to go to sleep
Click to expand...

It is just as stupid and dishonest as the suggestions you made, which is why you added the caveat that you are not seriously suggesting the ridiculous things you proposed.  Disabuse yourself of the illusion you are being clever.


----------



## Kosh

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



Had 20 years to become a citizen, chose not to do so..

Do people who commit crimes worry about their families when they commit those crimes?

Silly far left drone!


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

49 pages


LOSERS


----------



## JimBowie1958

Slade3200 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ENFORCE THE FUCKING LAWS.
> 
> 
> 
> Take a hike dude, you're just making noise
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, libtards think that enforcing the Gawd damned laws is just making noise, roflmao
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No It's your babble thats just making noise and not adding anything useful to the conversation
Click to expand...

Again, you assert that enforcing the law is babble.

You are an imbecile.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
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> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just irresponsible bullshit.  Of course most of them come here because they want a better life for themselves and their families, but if they had committed similar offenses in their home countries and had police records for these crimes, they wouldn't have been allowed to come here legally, so what you are proposing is giving preferential treatment to them because they broke the law and got away with it for a while.  Apparently, what motivates you to post such nonsense is not just your claim to have feelings of compassion for these people, but also a deep feeling of contempt for America and its laws.
> 
> 
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
Click to expand...

How can it not be preferential when illegals have already avoided all the hurdles that legal immigrants have to jump?


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
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> 
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> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
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> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you consider Trump partisan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really, he plays both sides and doesn't fully subscribe to either ideology. It's his way or the highway. He is definitely divisive as shit
Click to expand...

Yeah, because not being "divisive" means caving in to every snowflake demand.


----------



## BluesLegend

Unable to change our immigration laws for their illegal pals, asshole liberals decided to just ignore our immigration laws. Don't like a law just ignore it? Does the left really want to go down that road?


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
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> Slade3200 said:
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> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love America and I respect some laws and see room for reform with other laws. As you know our laws are in an evolving system that change with the will of our people. I've expressed my opinion on the matter and though I don't agree I respect yours as well.
> 
> I don't know where you get this preferential treatment statement from. You are distorting my statements again, so apparently you are the dishonest one. I've said create a pathway and make it a harder less incentivize pathway than the legal route. I don't think I can say it any plainer.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can it not be preferential when illegals have already avoided all the hurdles that legal immigrants have to jump?
Click to expand...

Because the whole concept is about providing a pathway to legal staus for the undocumented that currently live in this country with more hurdles than the legal path. Getting them out of the shadows and on the books. Try and keep up


----------



## theHawk

jillian said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your *white trash* self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
Click to expand...


Awww ....Jillian is showing her racist side.


----------



## theHawk

Slade3200 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this really sound just to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that having children makes one exempt from law?  Interesting concept.
> 
> If only Thelma and Louise had had children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?
Click to expand...


She was breaking federal immigration law.  Too bad it took this long to enforce.


----------



## theHawk

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?




She is a criminal.  She crossed over an international border without authorization and used forged documents.  We're supposed to be soft on her because she is a woman and has kids?  What happened to gender equality?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Heart of stone with no regard for a family in trouble?
> 
> Do you have a problem with rapists, drunk drivers, murderers, etc getting their just desserts as well?
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
Click to expand...


We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.


----------



## Tilly

AgentSparky said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missouri_Mike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She did not report for 18 years, only thee last two. And I don't feel bad for her at all. She is a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the report said she had been reporting for the past 12 years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First Slade she reported 2 times a year for 18 years and now it's down to a few times the last 12 years.
Click to expand...

And she seems to have lost 2 children since 2008


----------



## Kondor3

bripat9643 said:


> ...Yeah, because not being "divisive" means caving in to every snowflake demand.








In an Illegal Aliens debate context...

My nominee for Best Post of the Week...

-------------

To the Devil with this goddamned Invasion Force of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens...

And, as to the LibProgs that would rather stand alongside the Invaders than their own fellow countrymen...

Phukk 'em...


----------



## esthermoon

I know it's a sad story but she broke the law for the first time 20 years ago 
Nobody should enter a country illegally.
Unfortunately illegal immigration often leads to sad stories like that


----------



## Rustic

esthermoon said:


> I know it's a sad story but she broke the law for the first time 20 years ago
> Nobody should enter a country illegally.
> Unfortunately illegal immigration often leads to sad stories like that


Get the violin out... 
like I said Karma is a bitch


----------



## toomuchtime_

esthermoon said:


> I know it's a sad story but she broke the law for the first time 20 years ago
> Nobody should enter a country illegally.
> Unfortunately illegal immigration often leads to sad stories like that


It is a sad story, and the sad truth is there are billions of sad stories in the world, and perhaps the saddest story of all is that America cannot give them all happy endings.


----------



## BrokeLoser

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can it not be preferential when illegals have already avoided all the hurdles that legal immigrants have to jump?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the whole concept is about providing a pathway to legal staus for the undocumented that currently live in this country with more hurdles than the legal path. Getting them out of the shadows and on the books. Try and keep up
Click to expand...


See, that's where the confusion lies. I think you'll find most real American's don't want to offer a pathway to citizenship for those who have broke the law. We want them sent to the back of the line to begin the process. Further, we believe we already have plenty of low iQ, low quality humans here riding the backs of REAL American's. We also believe a "merit" based system and or means type of qualification process should be used in granting citizenship. Using these methods would effectively stop all immigration from Mexico.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
Click to expand...

When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
Click to expand...


I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.   


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Hugo Furst

When did the problems start?

when they put laws about immigration into effect.

When people found out they couldn't come in legally, they decided to come in illegally


----------



## AgentSparky

Ray From Cleveland said:


> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com



Bush the Elder?


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> 
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
Click to expand...

You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?

Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can it not be preferential when illegals have already avoided all the hurdles that legal immigrants have to jump?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the whole concept is about providing a pathway to legal staus for the undocumented that currently live in this country with more hurdles than the legal path. Getting them out of the shadows and on the books. Try and keep up
Click to expand...

In other words, it's about amnesty.

Quit pretending that the illegals are going to pay their due and won't get preferential treatment.  We all know that's a damn lie.  This woman has already been allowed to live in this country for 20 years without paying any kind of dues.  Even if she went back to her country of origin and got in the back of the line, she would still be getting preferential treatment.

Screw that.  Deport her and don't allow her to return.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> 
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?
> 
> Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?
Click to expand...


No, it didn't work, which is precisely why we should never do it again.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


a criminal is a criminal


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
Click to expand...

The problem we have now is directly related to Reagan giving 2 million illegals amnesty in the 80's.


----------



## Old Yeller

I "_waffle_" on blanket deportation.  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  no record,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, Not on Disability,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.  I would not be hunting those persons down,  just yet.

I don't think we have the entire story on this mother.  Something is not right with this story?


#1 Go after all known criminals already locked. Make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And send them back to lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.

#2 Known BAD ones.  On probation, awaiting trial......gone.

#2a VISA overstays. Charge them a fee to find them.  Or they can Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?  Or no cost?  Would they be easily caught buying Air or boat? or Train? Are there many Visa overstays who will drive across Mexican border?  Let them out? not back?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly? i.e.  the word gets out?

Whatever left,  Take a good look. Maybe we can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.

Remember:  someone is cleaning Motel 6,  Easy8.  Someone has to get to the fields at dark and pick to noon and carpool back to the quarters.  Do you think they can get CHI or DET residents out to Brawley, CA to live in the middle of nowhere and be ready to go?  Not easily. And they won't do it.  Eventually that could all be solved I suppose?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Old Yeller said:


> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.


If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?


----------



## Old Yeller

toomuchtime_ said:


> How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa




Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.

I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).


----------



## toomuchtime_

Old Yeller said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
Click to expand...

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
Click to expand...

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> 
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?
> 
> Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?
Click to expand...


Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
Click to expand...

More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
Click to expand...

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?
> 
> Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.
Click to expand...

So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.
Click to expand...

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
Click to expand...

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.


----------



## namvet

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



tuff shit


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?
Click to expand...

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
Click to expand...

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
Click to expand...

Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
Click to expand...

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.


----------



## Slade3200

RetiredGySgt said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.
Click to expand...

You're right... Had Reagan not given amnesty to 3 million then I guess there would be 13 million here now instead of 10. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right... Had he not done the amnesty then I guess there would be 12 million here now. Thanks for the correction.
Click to expand...

Wrong if he had KICKED them out and enforced the border there would be few here now, the 10 million are because they all want amnesty too.


----------



## Slade3200

RetiredGySgt said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> I "_waffle_".  If someone is TRULY living crime free,  working,  TAXES paid, Kids OK in school,  Not on Welfare, Not on SSI,  does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.
> 
> I would go after all the known criminals locked up first.  I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date.  And take them back and lock them up in their jails.  The wall will not allow return.
> 
> Known BAD ones second,  on probation, awaiting trial......gone.
> 
> VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them.  Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?
> 
> Maybe by now............many are disappearing?  willingly?
> 
> Whatever left,  Take a good look.  We can keep the good ones?  Find a way......  IMVHO.
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right... Had he not done the amnesty then I guess there would be 12 million here now. Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong if he had KICKED them out and enforced the border there would be few here now, the 10 million are because they all want amnesty too.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure they would have came anyway... Better border enforcement and visa tracking is what was needed.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
Click to expand...

"If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here.  There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone.  It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US.  Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa.  Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US.  How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?
> 
> 
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
Click to expand...

lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
> 
> 
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here.  There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.
Click to expand...

You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities.  Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.
Click to expand...

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here.  There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way
Click to expand...

It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.
> 
> 
> 
> I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.
Click to expand...

You are the only person trying to misrepresent your positions.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line.  The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.
> 
> 
> 
> I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.
Click to expand...

You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.


----------



## Pumpkin Row

_Shouldn't have used a fake Visa, and shouldn't have been allowed to stay in the first place. Good riddance._


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here.  There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.


----------



## Slade3200

RetiredGySgt said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays.  I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?
> 
> 
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.
Click to expand...

Amnesty is a full pardon.  Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows.  It makes sense if you have an open mind.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amnesty is a full pardon.  Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows.  It makes sense if you have an open mind.
Click to expand...


Or to put it another way, give  in to them and forget  about  our laws.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.



No, this  is why Donald Trump is our President today.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
Click to expand...


Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> 
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?
> 
> Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it
Click to expand...


So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
> 
> 
> 
> lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amnesty is a full pardon.  Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows.  It makes sense if you have an open mind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or to put it another way, give  in to them and forget  about  our laws.
Click to expand...

Apparently this whole thing is going over your head...


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this  is why Donald Trump is our President today.
Click to expand...

I thought he was president because people hated Obamacare


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Yeller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very good questions.  I would say only that they were "_allowed_" for so long........to stay.  They have been "_allowed_" to work........some may be clean.  With citizen anchor babies.  WTH?  GOVT "_allowed_" them.
> 
> I don't know?  I do know.......all the bad ones could go.  We know many are in Jail(s).
> 
> 
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
Click to expand...

I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.


----------



## Eloy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
Click to expand...

You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?
> 
> Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?
Click to expand...

Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say since the  Bush years and  carried right through today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
> 
> 
> 
> You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?
> 
> Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.
Click to expand...


Then why don't we have record deaths of  people  using  prescriptions?  We certainly have them with opiate drugs today.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
Click to expand...

That "policy" is in direct contradiction of us law which Trump swore to uphold.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
Click to expand...


Our law is that you can face deportation if you are caught here illegally.  It's just that DumBama never wanted to enforce it. 

And if you disagree, name me  one law  that is  being broken with getting rid of this  woman who had her welfare children?


----------



## Missouri_Mike

Is this criminal bitch gone yet?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
Click to expand...


There is no simpler point  than  if you are here illegally, you may be  kicked out one day.  It's YOU that can't keep up.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now.  All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head.  All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more.  Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amnesty is a full pardon.  Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows.  It makes sense if you have an open mind.
Click to expand...

ANY system that allows illegals to remain and become legal is amnesty and will only attracted millions more with the same concept that brought this 10 million, 2 million got forgiven so we will too.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this  is why Donald Trump is our President today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought he was president because people hated Obamacare
Click to expand...


Every Republican running hated Obama Care.  But only one campaigned on strict enforcement  of  our immigration laws and  building  the wall.  The other  Republican candidates sounded  like you, and that's why Trump won.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
Click to expand...




Eloy said:


> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.



Right, never happened before Trump took office...

a mother deported and a child left behind - Yahoo Search Results


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?
> 
> Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why don't we have record deaths of  people  using  prescriptions?  We certainly have them with opiate drugs today.
Click to expand...

You're kidding right?  Do a little more research... Most prescription drugs are opiates by the way.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year.  The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
Click to expand...

What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.

How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why don't we have record deaths of  people  using  prescriptions?  We certainly have them with opiate drugs today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're kidding right?  Do a little more research... Most prescription drugs are opiates by the way.
Click to expand...


Not true.


----------



## bripat9643

Eloy said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not the point.
> 
> Is your head as soft as your heart?
> 
> She broke the law.
> 
> Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.
> 
> You're crying because it is breaking up the family.
> 
> When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.
> 
> I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
Click to expand...


Any policy in conflict with the law is an illegal policy.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no simpler point  than  if you are here illegally, you may be  kicked out one day.  It's YOU that can't keep up.
Click to expand...

You are right it is a very simple point, however the problem is more complex than the law and if we want progress on this problem then changes need to be made. I guess it is at this point where it starts to get a little overwhelming for you. Its ok


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here.  There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
Click to expand...

More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.  

President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this  is why Donald Trump is our President today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought he was president because people hated Obamacare
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every Republican running hated Obama Care.  But only one campaigned on strict enforcement  of  our immigration laws and  building  the wall.  The other  Republican candidates sounded  like you, and that's why Trump won.
Click to expand...

Thats a fine theory... I think it was more about saying fuck you to politics as usual and people wanting a business guy who can grow or economy... unfortunately Trump fooled them into thinking he was that guy. Also he was running against a very bad candidate.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents.  These are two separate issues.  And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession?  It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners.  I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.
> 
> 
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
Click to expand...

What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud
> 
> 
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any policy in conflict with the law is an illegal policy.
Click to expand...

Laws change dude, its how our country works


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> 
> 
> "If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here.  There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
Click to expand...

Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?
> 
> 
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any policy in conflict with the law is an illegal policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laws change dude, its how our country works
Click to expand...

Until they do, policies that conflict with the ones on the books are illegal.  Current law calls for all illegals to be deported.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> "If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here.  There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.
> 
> 
> 
> You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
Click to expand...

Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
Click to expand...


The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this  is why Donald Trump is our President today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought he was president because people hated Obamacare
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Every Republican running hated Obama Care.  But only one campaigned on strict enforcement  of  our immigration laws and  building  the wall.  The other  Republican candidates sounded  like you, and that's why Trump won.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats a fine theory... I think it was more about saying fuck you to politics as usual and people wanting a business guy who can grow or economy... unfortunately Trump fooled them into thinking he was that guy. Also he was running against a very bad candidate.
Click to expand...


She was such a bad candidate that nearly every poll had her in the lead without almost no opposition?  

Trump's message (the one that hit Americans the mosts) was immigration.  Yes, Commie Care  and the economy played a part.  But you have to think of what Trump said that was so different than every other candidate that supported a better economy and the repeal of Commie Care as well.  

What you refuse to admit is that  Americans are  about good and pissed  off about this immigration thing.  In fact, Trump set  a record  of new  registration in  the  Republican party  because  of  it. 

Conscious Americans have  realized  the  Democrat  party is now  the anti-white party.   They are risking  everything  in effort to make whites a minority for the first time  in the history of our  country, and they responded.


----------



## AgentSparky

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, *this  is why Donald Trump is our President today*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought he was president *because people hated Obamacare*
Click to expand...


It's a combination of both, Slade. I'll also lack of job growth and increase of wages.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration.  Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no simpler point  than  if you are here illegally, you may be  kicked out one day.  It's YOU that can't keep up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are right it is a very simple point, however the problem is more complex than the law and if we want progress on this problem then changes need to be made. I guess it is at this point where it starts to get a little overwhelming for you. Its ok
Click to expand...


Correct, changes need to be made, and it's happening right now.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million.  Today, it's estimated over 20 million.  That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today.  Signs were all in English, ballots were  in English only, you never had to press any button on  the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time.  Only a select few people had problems with opiates.  Today, people are  dropping  like  flies from  those drugs.  In my county, we are setting new records all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why don't we have record deaths of  people  using  prescriptions?  We certainly have them with opiate drugs today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're kidding right?  Do a little more research... Most prescription drugs are opiates by the way.
Click to expand...


That may be, but people are not killing  themselves  over addition to prescription drugs.  They are by buying illegal recreational narcotics.


----------



## toomuchtime_

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
Click to expand...

Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.  

As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We draw the line through intelligent debate and  an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any policy in conflict with the law is an illegal policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laws change dude, its how our country works
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until they do, policies that conflict with the ones on the books are illegal.  Current law calls for all illegals to be deported.
Click to expand...

The law also says that Pot is illegal... Are you also calling for the Feds to raid all the Medical Marijuana shops and all the recreational growers and shops in the many states that have legalized it?


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way
> 
> 
> 
> It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
Click to expand...

You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with.  You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
Click to expand...

Have you learned nothing from history... Maybe if we throw everybody in jail for selling and doing drugs then people will just magically stop doing those too...  yeah right


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Is she gone yet ?


----------



## Slade3200

AgentSparky said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, *this  is why Donald Trump is our President today*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought he was president *because people hated Obamacare*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a combination of both, Slade. I'll also lack of job growth and increase of wages.
Click to expand...

Two biggest factors that won him the election were that he was a non politician businessman who people thought would stand up to politics as usual and the economy as you mentioned... job growth, trade deals, lower taxes, less regulation and higher wages.

His core supporters obviously loved him for the wall and anti Obama rhetoric but I don't think those were the main drivers for those independents and fringe voters that ultimately won him the election.  Remember he only won the electoral college by roughly 100K votes. It was a slim victory over a really bad candidate on the other side coming off an 8 year Dem reign.


----------



## Old Yeller

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why don't we have record deaths of  people  using  prescriptions?  We certainly have them with opiate drugs today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're kidding right?  Do a little more research... Most prescription drugs are opiates by the way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may be, but people are not killing  themselves  over addition to prescription drugs.  They are by buying illegal recreational narcotics.
Click to expand...



You got that right.  Mexican black tar Heroin has been flooding up into America since late 90s' for sure.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> 
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
Click to expand...

How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.


----------



## Old Yeller

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Is she gone yet ?




The org link said she goes out in July. Why so long?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
Click to expand...

You continue to talk nonsense.  The problem is illegal immigration and President Trump's policies will reduce it.  That's the whole story.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need a _*new policy*_.  We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine.  Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make  the decision if our policies are good enough for them.
> 
> 
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any policy in conflict with the law is an illegal policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laws change dude, its how our country works
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until they do, policies that conflict with the ones on the books are illegal.  Current law calls for all illegals to be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law also says that Pot is illegal... Are you also calling for the Feds to raid all the Medical Marijuana shops and all the recreational growers and shops in the many states that have legalized it?
Click to expand...


The Constitution doesn't give the federal government the authority to regulate pot.  It does give the federal government the authority to regulate immigration.


----------



## Old Yeller

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> 
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.
Click to expand...



How about they can never vote?  Never stop working? No anchor babies for them.  Hit age 62, whole clan goes back.  OK they can take their savings.......snicker.

How many you worry about if they can't vote?


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally.  If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
Click to expand...


Wrong.  Open-borders douche bag politicians are the cause of the problem.  There is simply no question about that.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they'll come.  If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money?  If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast  would you drive  on the highway?
> 
> 
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you learned nothing from history... Maybe if we throw everybody in jail for selling and doing drugs then people will just magically stop doing those too...  yeah right
Click to expand...


You're comparing drugs with illegal aliens?  Really?


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades.  Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.
> 
> 
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.
Click to expand...

There is no argument.  It's a fact that allowing them to stay is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policies are based.  For that reason it would be unAmerican to allow them to stay.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You continue to talk nonsense.  The problem is illegal immigration and President Trump's policies will reduce it.  That's the whole story.
Click to expand...

Thats your half of the story but you are missing the big picture.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
> The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any policy in conflict with the law is an illegal policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laws change dude, its how our country works
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until they do, policies that conflict with the ones on the books are illegal.  Current law calls for all illegals to be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The law also says that Pot is illegal... Are you also calling for the Feds to raid all the Medical Marijuana shops and all the recreational growers and shops in the many states that have legalized it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Constitution doesn't give the federal government the authority to regulate pot.  It does give the federal government the authority to regulate immigration.
Click to expand...

So are you saying the federal law that says pot is illegal is unconstitutional?


----------



## Slade3200

Old Yeller said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> 
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about they can never vote?  Never stop working? No anchor babies for them.  Hit age 62, whole clan goes back.  OK they can take their savings.......snicker.
> 
> How many you worry about if they can't vote?
Click to expand...

I don't care about the vote or not. If it were up to me I wouldn't have a problem with it but I also don't mind making that compromise if it threatens you that much... That is the big difference between legal status and citizen. Voting rights


----------



## TemplarKormac

Slade3200 said:


> No i'm talking in context to the entire situation as played out over 20 years. She did what she was told for 18 years and checked in with ICE. What law was she breaking?



She was here illegally, doofus. You know, there's a law against that, right? Illegal entry has no statute of limitation. Each minute they stay here is a renewed violation of our immigration laws.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  Open-borders douche bag politicians are the cause of the problem.  There is simply no question about that.
Click to expand...

Yes yes yes, it is always 100% the other guys fault. yawn, that argument got old in grade school.


----------



## Slade3200

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "penalty" are you referring to?  If they are allowed to stay, they are being rewarded.
> 
> How about this for a penalty:  5 years in prison?
> 
> 
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no argument.  It's a fact that allowing them to stay is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policies are based.  For that reason it would be unAmerican to allow them to stay.
Click to expand...

Don't be calling Reagan unAmerican now, your Rhino friends might get offended


----------



## TemplarKormac

Slade3200 said:


> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.


Her fault, not ours.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Slade3200 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
Click to expand...


Serious question...

Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?


----------



## Slade3200

Etherion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?
Click to expand...

Good question, I don't know.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Slade3200 said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question, I don't know.
Click to expand...


Then it seems to me that they had no such power. How do you check in with ICE 36 times without being deported? How did she manage to give them the slip for so long?


----------



## Slade3200

Etherion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question, I don't know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then it seems to me that they had no such power. How do you check in with ICE 36 times without being deported? How did she manage to give them the slip for so long?
Click to expand...

Did you watch the news story?? They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in, like she had done twice a year for the past 12 years. She came out of the meeting saying they gave her another year and then they called her back in and gave her the boot. It's pretty fucked up


----------



## TemplarKormac

Slade3200 said:


> Did you watch the news story?? They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in, like she had done twice a year for the past 12 years. She came out of the meeting saying they gave her another year and then they called her back in and gave her the boot. It's pretty fucked up



I watched the story, Slade. Doesn't change my opinion.


----------



## TemplarKormac

As far as it being "pretty fucked up", it's actually pretty fucked up when we let people get away with breaking federal law for 18 years. That's not good.


----------



## fncceo

Slade3200 said:


> They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in



If they weren't in the interview and didn't witness the interaction, it's hearsay and inadmissible.


----------



## Slade3200

Etherion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you watch the news story?? They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in, like she had done twice a year for the past 12 years. She came out of the meeting saying they gave her another year and then they called her back in and gave her the boot. It's pretty fucked up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the story, Slade. Doesn't change my opinion.
Click to expand...

Fine for you to have your opinion, but why are you asking how she gave them the slip when the story says she checked in with them for 12 years?


----------



## TemplarKormac

Slade3200 said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you watch the news story?? They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in, like she had done twice a year for the past 12 years. She came out of the meeting saying they gave her another year and then they called her back in and gave her the boot. It's pretty fucked up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the story, Slade. Doesn't change my opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fine for you to have your opinion, but why are you asking how she gave them the slip when the story says she checked in with them for 12 years?
Click to expand...


Easy, she's been here illegally and yet ICE still let her stay. Either she, or some other entity, has been playing the system to let her stay here all this time. I find it hard to believe ICE had the authority to grant that kind of reprieve to someone here illegally.


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> I'll send you a tough guy award
Click to expand...


Look, it's real simple. 

If you looked at any other aspect of our laws, you wouldn't even question this.

If she murdered someone 20 years ago, we wouldn't be saying "but she's a mother of four!".

If she dumped toxic waste into a nearby water supply, we wouldn't be saying "but but four!"

If it was a guy, and he raped a couple of women 20 years ago, "but but but FOUR KIDS!"

In any other situation, we wouldn't be giving her a free pass simply because she's got kids.

Any animal can pop out kids.

We are humans.  We have laws.   There are consequences to breaking those laws.  If you come here illegally, there are consequences.

The fact she had kids, simply means it was even more irresponsible for her to break our laws.

It's not a "tough guy" routine.  It's the law.  Do you want to live in anarchy where we have no laws?  There are plenty of places you can go to.   We have laws.  You will obey those laws, or you will have consequences.   Don't break the law.  It's that simple.  Years ago I got speeding tickets..... because I was speeding.  It never occurred to me that "you all are just doing a tough guy act!"


----------



## Slade3200

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> I'll send you a tough guy award
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look, it's real simple.
> 
> If you looked at any other aspect of our laws, you wouldn't even question this.
> 
> If she murdered someone 20 years ago, we wouldn't be saying "but she's a mother of four!".
> 
> If she dumped toxic waste into a nearby water supply, we wouldn't be saying "but but four!"
> 
> If it was a guy, and he raped a couple of women 20 years ago, "but but but FOUR KIDS!"
> 
> In any other situation, we wouldn't be giving her a free pass simply because she's got kids.
> 
> Any animal can pop out kids.
> 
> We are humans.  We have laws.   There are consequences to breaking those laws.  If you come here illegally, there are consequences.
> 
> The fact she had kids, simply means it was even more irresponsible for her to break our laws.
> 
> It's not a "tough guy" routine.  It's the law.  Do you want to live in anarchy where we have no laws?  There are plenty of places you can go to.   We have laws.  You will obey those laws, or you will have consequences.   Don't break the law.  It's that simple.  Years ago I got speeding tickets..... because I was speeding.  It never occurred to me that "you all are just doing a tough guy act!"
Click to expand...

Funny how you try and equate pursuing a more opportunistic life, with raping and murdering. Is that really how it is in your wrapped mind thinks?

I committed the same crime in high school when I got a fake ID to buy some booze. I sure hope I don't get the electric chair if one day the authorities find that ID I once had.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> I'll send you a tough guy award
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look, it's real simple.
> 
> If you looked at any other aspect of our laws, you wouldn't even question this.
> 
> If she murdered someone 20 years ago, we wouldn't be saying "but she's a mother of four!".
> 
> If she dumped toxic waste into a nearby water supply, we wouldn't be saying "but but four!"
> 
> If it was a guy, and he raped a couple of women 20 years ago, "but but but FOUR KIDS!"
> 
> In any other situation, we wouldn't be giving her a free pass simply because she's got kids.
> 
> Any animal can pop out kids.
> 
> We are humans.  We have laws.   There are consequences to breaking those laws.  If you come here illegally, there are consequences.
> 
> The fact she had kids, simply means it was even more irresponsible for her to break our laws.
> 
> It's not a "tough guy" routine.  It's the law.  Do you want to live in anarchy where we have no laws?  There are plenty of places you can go to.   We have laws.  You will obey those laws, or you will have consequences.   Don't break the law.  It's that simple.  Years ago I got speeding tickets..... because I was speeding.  It never occurred to me that "you all are just doing a tough guy act!"
Click to expand...


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> 
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You continue to talk nonsense.  The problem is illegal immigration and President Trump's policies will reduce it.  That's the whole story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats your half of the story but you are missing the big picture.
Click to expand...

That is the whole picture.  President Trump was elected in part because he promised to get rid of the illegals and he will be elected the next time because he did what he promised to do.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> 
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You continue to talk nonsense.  The problem is illegal immigration and President Trump's policies will reduce it.  That's the whole story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats your half of the story but you are missing the big picture.
Click to expand...


What's the "big picture?"


----------



## toomuchtime_

Slade3200 said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What good does that do?  How about 5 years of military service or community service cleaning up our cities and building infrastructure or working in youth programs??  Yall really do have rocks for brains don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no argument.  It's a fact that allowing them to stay is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policies are based.  For that reason it would be unAmerican to allow them to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't be calling Reagan unAmerican now, your Rhino friends might get offended
Click to expand...

Reagan's amnesty continues to be an embarrassment to his supporters.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> More bullshit.  All you are proposing is another amnesty which we all know from experience leads to more illegal immigrants which leads to new calls for new amnesties.
> 
> President Trump was elected because he promised to do exactly what he is doing and already his actions have significantly reduced the number of illegals trying to cross our borders.  By the time the next election comes around he will be able show significant progress in solving the illegal immigration problem and it will become an even stronger issue for him.
> 
> 
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  Open-borders douche bag politicians are the cause of the problem.  There is simply no question about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes yes yes, it is always 100% the other guys fault. yawn, that argument got old in grade school.
Click to expand...


If not hers and the people who allowed her to stay here, whose fault is it?


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She walked into ICE twice a year for the past 18 years to check in. Do you understand that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question, I don't know.
Click to expand...


They got it from douche bags like Obama.


----------



## Andylusion

toomuchtime_ said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The good it does is the fact that it's a real penalty that would discourage further illegal immigration.  Allowing them to join the service and even get paid by the taxpayers while they violate our laws is not a penalty.  It's a reward.
> 
> 
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no argument.  It's a fact that allowing them to stay is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policies are based.  For that reason it would be unAmerican to allow them to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't be calling Reagan unAmerican now, your Rhino friends might get offended
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan's amnesty continues to be an embarrassment to his supporters.
Click to expand...


No, not really an embarrassment.  Rather. it simply didn't work.   We tried it.  We implemented it.  It didn't work.

What would be embarrassing, is if we were so stupid, that we saw it didn't work, admitted it didn't work, but then planned to do it again...... you know.... like what left-wing democrats keep trying to do.

Amnesty didn't work, so you guys promote it again.   Socialism didn't work... so you are pushing for socialized health care.   Government regulations on banks didn't work.... so you push for even more regulations on banks.

That should be embarrassing.


----------



## Eloy

Etherion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
Click to expand...

Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great we will see about that. If he loses the next election then i'll expect you to admit that you were wrong
> 
> 
> 
> Sure enough, but until the next election we will continue to make illegals unwelcome in this country as a part of the strategy to discourage new illegal immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can continue to try and scare them and make them feel unwelcome and the harder you push the harder your opposition will push back. If you really can't see that you uncompromising extremists are the cause of the problem then you need to open your eyes. That goes for both sides
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  Open-borders douche bag politicians are the cause of the problem.  There is simply no question about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes yes yes, it is always 100% the other guys fault. yawn, that argument got old in grade school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If not hers and the people who allowed her to stay here, whose fault is it?
Click to expand...

Its the fault of our government... The people who allowed her to stay. She checked in as she was told. Are you familiar with "adverse possession" it is part of our law that has similar elements as whats happened in the case of many undocumented residents that have lived hear for years and decades.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
Click to expand...


No, but from that statement, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion in application of the law renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity." Where does it stop, Eloy? Hmm? Where is the breaking point? Should we just stop enforcing the law at all?

At what point do we put our foot down and say enough is enough?


----------



## Eloy

Etherion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
Click to expand...

Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).


----------



## Slade3200

Etherion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but from that statement, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion in application of the law renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity." Where does it stop, Eloy? Hmm? Where is the breaking point? Should we just stop enforcing the law at all?
> 
> At what point do we put our foot down and say enough is enough?
Click to expand...

You gotta get off this "liberals have no respect for the law" horse that you are on. There can be rules and there can be enforcement, but I think it is fair to say that if the penalty is ripping families apart and effecting communities in a negative way by deportations then perhaps the punishments are too harsh an something else should be considered.  If you all weren't so hard headed and combative and if you were able to civilly engage in a productive conversation about his subject then you could simply ask a very legitimate question to your opponents.  Ask them to propose a solution that is fair to both undocumented in this country and for those who wait for years to immigrate the legal way.  Search for middle ground and see what you all can come up with


----------



## TemplarKormac

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
Click to expand...


Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.


----------



## Eloy

Etherion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
Click to expand...

Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Slade3200 said:


> You gotta get off this "liberals have no respect for the law" horse that you are on. There can be rules and there can be enforcement, but I think it is fair to say that if the penalty is ripping families apart and effecting communities in a negative way by deportations then perhaps the punishments are too harsh an something else should be considered.



Begging your pardon, but the punishment fits the crime. So, either we change the 14th Amendment to exclude children born to foreigners on American soil from being automatic citizens, or we enforce existing law. Since the former is highly unlikely given our current political climate, we are left with the latter.



Slade3200 said:


> If you all weren't so hard headed and combative and if you were able to civilly engage in a productive conversation about his subject then you could simply ask a very legitimate question to your opponents.



Not being hard headed or combative. I'm expecting people to obey the same law I obey. Is that such an unreasonable expectation?



Slade3200 said:


> Ask them to propose a solution that is fair to both undocumented in this country and for those who wait for years to immigrate the legal way. Search for middle ground and see what you all can come up with



The middle ground doesn't exist. But the ground where their home country rests does.

People who come here illegally should not be rewarded with anything except the consequences of their actions.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.
Click to expand...


Okay, immigrants. We're talking illegal immigrants. Note how the two aren't alike in any way.


----------



## Eloy

Etherion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, immigrants. We're talking illegal immigrants. Note how the two aren't alike in any way.
Click to expand...

There is no such person as an illegal immigrant.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, immigrants. We're talking illegal immigrants. Note how the two aren't alike in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no such person as an illegal immigrant.
Click to expand...


Wow. That is perhaps the most ignorant thing I've read thus far at this late hour. Perhaps I mistook you for a serious poster. 

Good day.


----------



## Eloy

Etherion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, immigrants. We're talking illegal immigrants. Note how the two aren't alike in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no such person as an illegal immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. That is perhaps the most ignorant thing I've read thus far at this late hour. Perhaps I mistook you for a serious poster.
> 
> Good day.
Click to expand...

It is not a late hour where I live.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
> 
> 
> 
> Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, immigrants. We're talking illegal immigrants. Note how the two aren't alike in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no such person as an illegal immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. That is perhaps the most ignorant thing I've read thus far at this late hour. Perhaps I mistook you for a serious poster.
> 
> Good day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not a late hour where I live.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you haven't heard about time zones yet. Google is your friend.


----------



## toomuchtime_

Andylusion said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Allowing them to stay under any circumstances is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policy is based.  In 1965, the most liberal president in American history signed into law immigration reform legislation that is based on the principle that immigration into the US should be based on what America and Americans  need from the rest of the world and not what the rest of the world needs from us.
> 
> As a result of this reform, the vast majority of illegals now in the country would never have been permitted to even apply for an immigration visa and would never have been welcome in this country under any circumstances because we simply don't need them.  There is no way these people can be allowed to stay without contradicting and violating the very principles on which our immigration policies are based.  No rational compromise is possible.
> 
> 
> 
> How many laps has the broken record spun with you... I get your argument... I agree with some of it and disagree with much of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no argument.  It's a fact that allowing them to stay is antithetical to the principles on which our immigration policies are based.  For that reason it would be unAmerican to allow them to stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't be calling Reagan unAmerican now, your Rhino friends might get offended
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan's amnesty continues to be an embarrassment to his supporters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, not really an embarrassment.  Rather. it simply didn't work.   We tried it.  We implemented it.  It didn't work.
> 
> What would be embarrassing, is if we were so stupid, that we saw it didn't work, admitted it didn't work, but then planned to do it again...... you know.... like what left-wing democrats keep trying to do.
> 
> Amnesty didn't work, so you guys promote it again.   Socialism didn't work... so you are pushing for socialized health care.   Government regulations on banks didn't work.... so you push for even more regulations on banks.
> 
> That should be embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Actually, it did work.  The whole purpose of the amnesty was to allow Reagan to avoid dealing with the difficult issue of illegal immigration, and it did do that.  That's an embarrassment.  Reagan was a great president but he made some serious mistakes.


----------



## bripat9643

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
Click to expand...

"Legalist?"  Is that a euphemism meaning someone who believes in enforcing the law?

Why don't you just admit you use the Constitution for toilet paper?


----------



## bripat9643

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, immigrants. We're talking illegal immigrants. Note how the two aren't alike in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no such person as an illegal immigrant.
Click to expand...


Correct.   The proper term is "illegal alien," and we have 40 million of them.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> I'll send you a tough guy award
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look, it's real simple.
> 
> If you looked at any other aspect of our laws, you wouldn't even question this.
> 
> If she murdered someone 20 years ago, we wouldn't be saying "but she's a mother of four!".
> 
> If she dumped toxic waste into a nearby water supply, we wouldn't be saying "but but four!"
> 
> If it was a guy, and he raped a couple of women 20 years ago, "but but but FOUR KIDS!"
> 
> In any other situation, we wouldn't be giving her a free pass simply because she's got kids.
> 
> Any animal can pop out kids.
> 
> We are humans.  We have laws.   There are consequences to breaking those laws.  If you come here illegally, there are consequences.
> 
> The fact she had kids, simply means it was even more irresponsible for her to break our laws.
> 
> It's not a "tough guy" routine.  It's the law.  Do you want to live in anarchy where we have no laws?  There are plenty of places you can go to.   We have laws.  You will obey those laws, or you will have consequences.   Don't break the law.  It's that simple.  Years ago I got speeding tickets..... because I was speeding.  It never occurred to me that "you all are just doing a tough guy act!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny how you try and equate pursuing a more opportunistic life, with raping and murdering. Is that really how it is in your wrapped mind thinks?
> 
> I committed the same crime in high school when I got a fake ID to buy some booze. I sure hope I don't get the electric chair if one day the authorities find that ID I once had.
Click to expand...


Then here's what you do:  Get another  fake ID and go to Mexico and try living for a while.  Let us know how it works out for you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that's what she claims to have done.  I also understand a sympathetic press reports her claim without scrutiny because it makes for a better story.
> 
> I'm highly skeptical that 36 visits to immigration resulted in her being told every time that she's free to stay in this country illegally.
> 
> If she can prove that, perhaps it's the ICE agents who should be deported.
> 
> 
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question, I don't know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then it seems to me that they had no such power. How do you check in with ICE 36 times without being deported? How did she manage to give them the slip for so long?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you watch the news story?? They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in, like she had done twice a year for the past 12 years. She came out of the meeting saying they gave her another year and then they called her back in and gave her the boot. It's pretty fucked up
Click to expand...


What I would  love to know is if ICE confirmed she did indeed check in twice a year.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I can depict you and people like you as those who hold no regard for the law whatsoever. Compassion renders the law meaningless. The rules, as they are, lose their power when we keep bending them for the sake of our "common humanity."
> 
> Thanks for making that easy for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Americans have an nature to protect the underdog (with the exception of racists).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, including harboring criminals. Because that's what they are. No plight or struggle is worth becoming a criminal for. There is no decency or accomplishment in disregarding our immigration laws and, thenceforth, they have demonstrated their complete disregard of American jurisprudence by setting foot on American soil illegally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typically, immigrants to the United States are not criminals and because entering without the required documentation is a misdemeanor, this alone does not make criminals of hard working and decent family people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, immigrants. We're talking illegal immigrants. Note how the two aren't alike in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no such person as an illegal immigrant.
Click to expand...

You are right they are just Illegal. Immigrants come here with proper paper work and have met all the requirements for legal entry the illegal criminals have not.


----------



## Slade3200

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is it your theory that she lied about checking in with ICE over the past 18 years but then just decided that she would roll the dice and do so for CNN and risk being deported?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question, I don't know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then it seems to me that they had no such power. How do you check in with ICE 36 times without being deported? How did she manage to give them the slip for so long?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you watch the news story?? They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in, like she had done twice a year for the past 12 years. She came out of the meeting saying they gave her another year and then they called her back in and gave her the boot. It's pretty fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I would  love to know is if ICE confirmed she did indeed check in twice a year.
Click to expand...

What if that turns out to be true? Does it change your opinion at all or are you just trying to poke holes?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Ray From Cleveland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Serious question...
> 
> Where did ICE get the power to determine if she can stay here for 18 years? Why wasn't she deported earlier?
> 
> 
> 
> Good question, I don't know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then it seems to me that they had no such power. How do you check in with ICE 36 times without being deported? How did she manage to give them the slip for so long?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you watch the news story?? They literally covered her trip from her house to ICE to check in, like she had done twice a year for the past 12 years. She came out of the meeting saying they gave her another year and then they called her back in and gave her the boot. It's pretty fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I would  love to know is if ICE confirmed she did indeed check in twice a year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if that turns out to be true? Does it change your opinion at all or are you just trying to poke holes?
Click to expand...


Nope, just trying to seal some of the holes already there.  


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


----------



## Jarlaxle

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...


Yes.  She fucked up and needs to face the consequences.  The only mistake was EVER letting her into the country to begin with!


----------



## Jarlaxle

WillHaftawaite said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do  you figure?
Click to expand...

She votes straight-ticket Democrat?


----------



## Hugo Furst

Jarlaxle said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do  you figure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She votes straight-ticket Democrat?
Click to expand...


----------



## Andylusion

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
Click to expand...


I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".

There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.

If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.

Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.

I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.


----------



## Eloy

Andylusion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
Click to expand...

You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.


----------



## Andylusion

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
Click to expand...


You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.

Ours is good and moral.


----------



## Eloy

Andylusion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
Click to expand...

I have to believe you are not American.


----------



## Slade3200

Andylusion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
Click to expand...

Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.


----------



## Andylusion

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have to believe you are not American.
Click to expand...


Columbus, Ohio, been here my whole life.

Not only that, but I come from a long line of hundreds of relatives across this entire country, that all live and believe the same as I do.

There are consequences to actions.  You do bad things, you end up with bad consequences.  It may not happen today, or tomorrow, but eventually at some point, it all catches up with you.  It's sad.  We don't enjoy it, or like it, want it.  But it is what is right, and moral.

Not your version of allowing evil to run rampant, and call it "compassion" to support illegal activity.  That just makes you... one of them.


----------



## Eloy

Andylusion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have to believe you are not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Columbus, Ohio, been here my whole life.
> 
> Not only that, but I come from a long line of hundreds of relatives across this entire country, that all live and believe the same as I do.
> 
> There are consequences to actions.  You do bad things, you end up with bad consequences.  It may not happen today, or tomorrow, but eventually at some point, it all catches up with you.  It's sad.  We don't enjoy it, or like it, want it.  But it is what is right, and moral.
> 
> Not your version of allowing evil to run rampant, and call it "compassion" to support illegal activity.  That just makes you... one of them.
Click to expand...

You surprise and disappoint me.


----------



## Andylusion

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have to believe you are not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Columbus, Ohio, been here my whole life.
> 
> Not only that, but I come from a long line of hundreds of relatives across this entire country, that all live and believe the same as I do.
> 
> There are consequences to actions.  You do bad things, you end up with bad consequences.  It may not happen today, or tomorrow, but eventually at some point, it all catches up with you.  It's sad.  We don't enjoy it, or like it, want it.  But it is what is right, and moral.
> 
> Not your version of allowing evil to run rampant, and call it "compassion" to support illegal activity.  That just makes you... one of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You surprise and disappoint me.
Click to expand...


Gladly.  You have not surprised me at all, and I'm long past being disappointed.


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
Click to expand...


Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't.

Every time you allow people to break laws, and give them a pass, you undermine the rule of law.  Period.

See you disconnect "harmless" law breakers from "harmful" law breakers.   And that's false.  There is a direct connection.  People who have research criminal behavior will all tell you that serial killers, and gang murderers, never popped into existence from magic.

They start out as just kids whose parents didn't teach them respect for the law.   They started out just taking bubble gum from the vendor without paying.  They started out vandalizing the back fence at the school.

No one wakes up on Thursday at age 28, and says "You know I'm going to become a wanted violent felon!  That's my new plan!".

It all starts in the home, with doing what is right, or doing what is wrong, even if it harms no one.

I was at Columbus State Community College, here in Columbus Ohio.   I was in class, when a young lade next to me, were talking, and she found out I worked at the dealership across the street.  A Cadillac dealership.

She asked me "Could you get me one of those Cadillac emblems?  My son would love that".

I responded that those are rather expensive.

"Oh no, I didn't mean buy it.  I meant if you could just find one that no one would notice missing"

She was asking me to steal from my employer.    To her, it wasn't even wrong.  That's just what you do.   The law didn't matter.  Thievery was fine.

What kind of impact do you think she is having on her kids?   And that's an American.  We can't deport her.

But other law breaking people, who are not here legally, we can.  And we should.

When you let little law breakers go, you end up with big law breakers.


----------



## keepitreal

Slade3200 said:


> This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here?


Hmm, I don't consider it a privilege to be lucky enough
to have to foot the bill and be burdened by the costs
for those who weren't born here or were, and live of the system!


----------



## Eloy

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
Click to expand...

In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have to believe you are not American.
Click to expand...

You'll have to forgive me if I find that funny coming from someone living in Europe.


----------



## TemplarKormac

Eloy said:


> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.



No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien


----------



## Eloy

Etherion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
Click to expand...

Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
Click to expand...


If there is one thing I thank God for, it's  that I was born here.  It's a country like no other, but that doesn't mean you give it away to everybody else.  God gave you something, and it's up to you to preserve it so it doesn't end up like other places.  It's up to us to give our children the same country we were raised in.  

Don't worry, immigration  isn't going to stop.  We will still let our million or so come to this  country, but everything has a limit.  Immigration has to be slow enough so that newcomers can assimilate into our society--not turn our society into theirs.  All this bilingual bullshit drives me up a wall.  The problem is we let these  people  sneak in here and because we didn't shut the gate, we are slowly becoming a bilingual country because of it.  And now, they are used to just drifting in and out when they desire, and expecting us to tolerate their activities.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
Click to expand...


Who is more compassionate than the United States?  Again,  we let a million or so immigrants come here with our blessing every single year.  Being compassionate has it's limits.  When it goes to far, it becomes abuse.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
Click to expand...




Eloy said:


> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.


If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....

(psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)

and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland

WillHaftawaite said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  Don't pay your traffic  ticket, they issue a warrant for your arrest.  Then if you are pulled over by a cop five years  later, they slap the cuffs on  you and take you to jail.


----------



## Eloy

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe you have a child who falls in love and marries a woman like this, now you have a family here that is getting ripped apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Her fault, not ours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please do not depict all Americans as cold-hearted legalists who lack common humanity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is more compassionate than the United States?  Again,  we let a million or so immigrants come here with our blessing every single year.  Being compassionate has it's limits.  When it goes to far, it becomes abuse.
Click to expand...

Some posters here believe, like you, that compassion has a limit which is exceeded if a mother of four American children is not deported. That is a shame.


----------



## Eloy

WillHaftawaite said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
Click to expand...

Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
When Donald Trump was electioneering he talked about the need to deport murderers, rapists, and many bad hombres. No-one hearing these words ever imagined his police would start going after people with broken tail lights.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> When Donald Trump was electioneering he talked about the need to deport murderers, rapists, and many bad hombres. No-one hearing these words ever imagined his police would start going after people with broken tail lights.
Click to expand...




Eloy said:


> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.


Entering the country ILLEGALLY does.

How many years is it going to take to get that through your head?


----------



## Tresha91203

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are stupid, there is no way you can't understand.  You know exactly why you are advocating preferential treatment for people who would not be allowed to immigrate legally if they had committed the same crime in their home countries that they did here by entering illegally.
> 
> When you say you love America, it is clear what you mean is that you would love America if only it were completely different from the way it is.  In every post you display contempt for America, its laws and its sovereignty.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, can't say I didn't try, that's the last time I'm going repeat myself to hear you distort and falsely regurgitate one of my points. I thought I could have an honest discussion with you but it's apparent that you aren't capable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol  Still more bullshit.  Nothing you said was distorted by me.  You simply are too stupid to understand what you are posting or you dishonestly ignoring the implications of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you are too dense to understand there can be an alternative path to legalization that is not preferential and not more advantageous but institutes higher fees, more penalties and a longer more intensive process than the legal path then I can't help you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can it not be preferential when illegals have already avoided all the hurdles that legal immigrants have to jump?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the whole concept is about providing a pathway to legal staus for the undocumented that currently live in this country with more hurdles than the legal path. Getting them out of the shadows and on the books. Try and keep up
Click to expand...


THERE ALREADY IS A LEGAL PATH! They have to go back home and apply from there. They just don't want to do it. You cannot apply for citizenship with unclean hands (breaking the law at the time of application). Allowing applications from illegals encourages illegals. No amnesty again until the border is sealed, as promised to get the first amnesty passed.


----------



## Eloy

WillHaftawaite said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> When Donald Trump was electioneering he talked about the need to deport murderers, rapists, and many bad hombres. No-one hearing these words ever imagined his police would start going after people with broken tail lights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Entering the country ILLEGALLY does.
> 
> How many years is it going to take to get that through your head?
Click to expand...

One historic misdemeanor does not make a mother-of-four a criminal.


----------



## bripat9643

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> When Donald Trump was electioneering he talked about the need to deport murderers, rapists, and many bad hombres. No-one hearing these words ever imagined his police would start going after people with broken tail lights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Entering the country ILLEGALLY does.
> 
> How many years is it going to take to get that through your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One historic misdemeanor does not make a mother-of-four a criminal.
Click to expand...

It makes here ineligible to be here.  End of story.


----------



## Andylusion

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not.   You might be though.  But I'm not.   Cold-hearted, is supporting a lawless, anarchy based system, where every law can be ignored if you "feel like it's bad".
> 
> There are countries like that, and most of them are terrible places to live.
> 
> If we actually became the bleeding left-wing country that allows people to break the law every time there is some lame excuse, it would actually destroy everything that people like this lady want, which is why they are trying to come here.
> 
> Worse you would destroy everything, that those who came here legally, worked so hard to get.   Far worse an evil, to ruin all their hard work, to become real American citizens.   How heartless you must be, to mock everything they set to achieve.
> 
> I have the heart.  You are the one missing one.
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
Click to expand...


LOL

Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?   

You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.


----------



## Andylusion

Ray From Cleveland said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Don't pay your traffic  ticket, they issue a warrant for your arrest.  Then if you are pulled over by a cop five years  later, they slap the cuffs on  you and take you to jail.
Click to expand...


Exactly.  Facts 'trump' opinion (pardon the pun).


----------



## Eloy

Andylusion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot see that compassion is a traditional quality of Americans and not a weakness. Too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
Click to expand...

Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.


----------



## MaryL

When Mexicans start paying more attention to their kids, instead of  using them as hedges for propaganda, I might be moved as a human being. I like Mexicans. Liars, not so much. Not manipulative bastards, race or culture is no excuse. Mama mia!


----------



## Andylusion

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> You take a look at your "compassion" and compare the number of victimized and abused, and murdered people today, verses that of 100 years ago....  No, your version of compassion is not only weak, it's evil.
> 
> Ours is good and moral.
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
Click to expand...


Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.


----------



## bripat9643

Andylusion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
Click to expand...


They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.


----------



## Andylusion

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
Click to expand...


I've actually had a heart change about jay walking laws.  I used to think they were the dumbest things, because I grew up in a sleepy nothing happening suburb where kids would play in the street.

Then.... I drove to Delaware which at the time was a college town.   Kids would literally stand.... in the middle of the street... ANYWHERE in town... and stare at you, knowing you couldn't do anything.  Just standing in the street like they were cows, staring at your head lights.

I've come to the conclusion that 90% of the seemingly stupid laws we have, are simply because people abuse their freedom so much, that we have no choice but to take it away.

So as much as I absolutely hate it, and I really really do... I get why dumb laws like Jay walking have to be created, and enforced.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
Click to expand...

Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?


----------



## MaryL

I have people over here ignoring immigration laws and completely disrespecting American laws (ignoring laws of immigration, male  brutality like rape or animal fighting,  vandalism )  because it's "Multiculturalism ". I reject that, I hate animal fighting,  male chauvinism, and disrespect in general, something Mexican culture or those that idolize it.  I am NEVER going to accept Hispanic illegal aliens, never. Not from bias, but reality.


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
Click to expand...


You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.

I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?  



 

Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.

But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.

They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.

My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.

I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.

You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.

So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.

My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.


----------



## Slade3200

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> 
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker. 

Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
 i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
Click to expand...

I didn't even know about it until the cops came to get him.

Thanks for proving that you're a douche bag.


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
Click to expand...


There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.

Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.

Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.

All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.  

And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.

You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.

And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.

Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
Click to expand...


Actually you do condone illegal border crossing because you want grant amnesty to all the perps.


----------



## bripat9643

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
Click to expand...

Of course there are victimless crimes.  If I smoke a doobie, who is the victim?


----------



## Andylusion

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are victimless crimes.  If I smoke a doobie, who is the victim?
Click to expand...


I just explained that.   I don't know how I can be any clearer.

When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.   I can't tell you the number of times other criminals doing other things, claim "well that guy smokes pot, and he's not in trouble. Why am I in trouble?"

Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care.    To them, you are a criminal like them.  So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.

Beyond that even, the vast majority of this crap about how your pot smoking has no victims, I just don't meet those people.   Where are these people?  In real life, not on a forum.   Everyone's crime is victimless on a forum.

It's ironic, because I'm actually talking with a guy dealing with one of these victim-less crime people right now.

He's a co-worker who is in the middle of a marriage break down.   His wife kicked him out of the house and I asked him what was going on.    Well... his father is this Willie Nelson wannabe, who smokes pot constantly.

His father's 'wives' have all divorced him, some remarried thinking he'd become a man, and divorced him again because he went back on the weed.    His children hate him.  His grand kids don't know him, most of them.   They guy is lonely, living in a shack with his pot.

So this dudes wife, is now accusing him on being on weed, because he's the one guy that deals with loser pot head grampa.   Then when he got kicked out, he slept at pot-heads shack, only to come into work smelling like pot.   Well you can't have a pot head running the fork lift.

And then on top of that, his daughter is turning into a hellion, and she says "well gramps breaks the law so...."  to justify the insanity she's into.

Now the typical pot head will say "it's everyone elses fault that there are these problems".

In reality, there is one guy screwing up the lives of literally dozens of people, his wives lives, his kids lives, and his grand kids lives, and I bet you anything he's sitting at home smoking pot saying "this is a victim-less crime!".

Well... he's wrong.  And no offense, but you are wrong too.


----------



## bripat9643

Andylusion said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are victimless crimes.  If I smoke a doobie, who is the victim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just explained that.   I don't know how I can be any clearer.
> 
> When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.   I can't tell you the number of times other criminals doing other things, claim "well that guy smokes pot, and he's not in trouble. Why am I in trouble?"
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care.    To them, you are a criminal like them.  So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> 
> Beyond that even, the vast majority of this crap about how your pot smoking has no victims, I just don't meet those people.   Where are these people?  In real life, not on a forum.   Everyone's crime is victimless on a forum.
> 
> It's ironic, because I'm actually talking with a guy dealing with one of these victim-less crime people right now.
> 
> He's a co-worker who is in the middle of a marriage break down.   His wife kicked him out of the house and I asked him what was going on.    Well... his father is this Willie Nelson wannabe, who smokes pot constantly.
> 
> His father's 'wives' have all divorced him, some remarried thinking he'd become a man, and divorced him again because he went back on the weed.    His children hate him.  His grand kids don't know him, most of them.   They guy is lonely, living in a shack with his pot.
> 
> So this dudes wife, is now accusing him on being on weed, because he's the one guy that deals with loser pot head grampa.   Then when he got kicked out, he slept at pot-heads shack, only to come into work smelling like pot.   Well you can't have a pot head running the fork lift.
> 
> And then on top of that, his daughter is turning into a hellion, and she says "well gramps breaks the law so...."  to justify the insanity she's into.
> 
> Now the typical pot head will say "it's everyone elses fault that there are these problems".
> 
> In reality, there is one guy screwing up the lives of literally dozens of people, his wives lives, his kids lives, and his grand kids lives, and I bit you anything he's sitting at home smoking pot saying "this is a victim-less crime!".
> 
> Well... he's wrong.  And no offense, but you are wrong too.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but that's just stupid.  That means it's immoral to break any law.  The "crime" committed by the guy in your example is being irresponsible and a bad father, not smoking weed.  Plenty of people smoke pot and are good responsible people.   

You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do.

Go fuck yourself.

For the record, I don't smoke pot, so your insinuations are groundless and insulting.


----------



## Andylusion

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are victimless crimes.  If I smoke a doobie, who is the victim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just explained that.   I don't know how I can be any clearer.
> 
> When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.   I can't tell you the number of times other criminals doing other things, claim "well that guy smokes pot, and he's not in trouble. Why am I in trouble?"
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care.    To them, you are a criminal like them.  So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> 
> Beyond that even, the vast majority of this crap about how your pot smoking has no victims, I just don't meet those people.   Where are these people?  In real life, not on a forum.   Everyone's crime is victimless on a forum.
> 
> It's ironic, because I'm actually talking with a guy dealing with one of these victim-less crime people right now.
> 
> He's a co-worker who is in the middle of a marriage break down.   His wife kicked him out of the house and I asked him what was going on.    Well... his father is this Willie Nelson wannabe, who smokes pot constantly.
> 
> His father's 'wives' have all divorced him, some remarried thinking he'd become a man, and divorced him again because he went back on the weed.    His children hate him.  His grand kids don't know him, most of them.   They guy is lonely, living in a shack with his pot.
> 
> So this dudes wife, is now accusing him on being on weed, because he's the one guy that deals with loser pot head grampa.   Then when he got kicked out, he slept at pot-heads shack, only to come into work smelling like pot.   Well you can't have a pot head running the fork lift.
> 
> And then on top of that, his daughter is turning into a hellion, and she says "well gramps breaks the law so...."  to justify the insanity she's into.
> 
> Now the typical pot head will say "it's everyone elses fault that there are these problems".
> 
> In reality, there is one guy screwing up the lives of literally dozens of people, his wives lives, his kids lives, and his grand kids lives, and I bit you anything he's sitting at home smoking pot saying "this is a victim-less crime!".
> 
> Well... he's wrong.  And no offense, but you are wrong too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that's just stupid.  That means it's immoral to break any law.  The "crime" committed by the guy in your example is being irresponsible and a bad father, not smoking weed.  Plenty of people smoke pot and are good responsible people.
> 
> You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do.
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> For the record, I don't smoke pot, so your insinuations are groundless and insulting.
Click to expand...


Of course we are entitled to impose our moral code on other people.

Of course.   What do you think ALL.... EVERY SINGLE LAW.... is?   Every law is a moral code.

There are countries where you can legally rape women.   The reason they do, is because they have a different moral code.   They reason we do not, is because we have a different moral code.

Every law, is a moral code.   Yes, breaking any law.... ANY LAW.... is wrong.

What makes your version of laws any more valid, than my version?   Is it not just your moral code, that you think is better than my moral code?    Are you not as much a Nazi as you claim I am?

Well you have the right to be wrong.


----------



## bripat9643

Andylusion said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there are victimless crimes.  If I smoke a doobie, who is the victim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just explained that.   I don't know how I can be any clearer.
> 
> When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.   I can't tell you the number of times other criminals doing other things, claim "well that guy smokes pot, and he's not in trouble. Why am I in trouble?"
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care.    To them, you are a criminal like them.  So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> 
> Beyond that even, the vast majority of this crap about how your pot smoking has no victims, I just don't meet those people.   Where are these people?  In real life, not on a forum.   Everyone's crime is victimless on a forum.
> 
> It's ironic, because I'm actually talking with a guy dealing with one of these victim-less crime people right now.
> 
> He's a co-worker who is in the middle of a marriage break down.   His wife kicked him out of the house and I asked him what was going on.    Well... his father is this Willie Nelson wannabe, who smokes pot constantly.
> 
> His father's 'wives' have all divorced him, some remarried thinking he'd become a man, and divorced him again because he went back on the weed.    His children hate him.  His grand kids don't know him, most of them.   They guy is lonely, living in a shack with his pot.
> 
> So this dudes wife, is now accusing him on being on weed, because he's the one guy that deals with loser pot head grampa.   Then when he got kicked out, he slept at pot-heads shack, only to come into work smelling like pot.   Well you can't have a pot head running the fork lift.
> 
> And then on top of that, his daughter is turning into a hellion, and she says "well gramps breaks the law so...."  to justify the insanity she's into.
> 
> Now the typical pot head will say "it's everyone elses fault that there are these problems".
> 
> In reality, there is one guy screwing up the lives of literally dozens of people, his wives lives, his kids lives, and his grand kids lives, and I bit you anything he's sitting at home smoking pot saying "this is a victim-less crime!".
> 
> Well... he's wrong.  And no offense, but you are wrong too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that's just stupid.  That means it's immoral to break any law.  The "crime" committed by the guy in your example is being irresponsible and a bad father, not smoking weed.  Plenty of people smoke pot and are good responsible people.
> 
> You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do.
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> For the record, I don't smoke pot, so your insinuations are groundless and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course we are entitled to impose our moral code on other people.
> 
> Of course.   What do you think ALL.... EVERY SINGLE LAW.... is?   Every law is a moral code.
> 
> There are countries where you can legally rape women.   The reason they do, is because they have a different moral code.   They reason we do not, is because we have a different moral code.
> 
> Every law, is a moral code.   Yes, breaking any law.... ANY LAW.... is wrong.
> 
> What makes your version of laws any more valid, than my version?   Is it not just your moral code, that you think is better than my moral code?    Are you not as much a Nazi as you claim I am?
> 
> Well you have the right to be wrong.
Click to expand...


The fact that we do it doesn't mean we are entitled to do it.   Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since the Germans were "entitled" to impose their moral code on their population.  You have basically endorsed the theory that there are no unjust laws.  Only a douche bag believes that.

You are the one with the Nazi code of ethics, not me.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> 
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't even know about it until the cops came to get him.
> 
> Thanks for proving that you're a douche bag.
Click to expand...

Just holding up the mirror man. I listen to how you all talk about the undocumented that are here and you do it with such degration and hate. Different story when you hear somebody saying the same thing about your bro isn't it. Maybe you think about that next time you're about to pop off


----------



## Slade3200

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
Click to expand...

I guess your family is just better than mine. Do you think that every cop that has let somebody out of a ticket should have their badge stripped away? They are after all condoning breaking the law under your premise.

How about if your buddy is giving you a ride and he runs a stop sign or goes 10mph over the speed limit. You report him or do you condone the lawlessness?


----------



## bripat9643

Slade3200 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't even know about it until the cops came to get him.
> 
> Thanks for proving that you're a douche bag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just holding up the mirror man. I listen to how you all talk about the undocumented that are here and you do it with such degration and hate. Different story when you hear somebody saying the same thing about your bro isn't it. Maybe you think about that next time you're about to pop off
Click to expand...


I have no problem with people attacking my bro.  I think the guy is an asshole.  You were attacking me by insinuating I would turn in my own brother to the police.  That's hardly on the same plane with expecting our immigration laws to be enforced.


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually you do condone illegal border crossing because you want grant amnesty to all the perps.
Click to expand...

No I don't, I agree that violent criminals should be deported, no doubt. I think the dreamers should be aloud to stay, no doubt. I think there is a grey area in the middle that needs strategic action. It is problem that effects million of people and the only thing that is going to work is to better secure the border and offer a pathway for people here with some sort of probation


----------



## Slade3200

bripat9643 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't even know about it until the cops came to get him.
> 
> Thanks for proving that you're a douche bag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just holding up the mirror man. I listen to how you all talk about the undocumented that are here and you do it with such degration and hate. Different story when you hear somebody saying the same thing about your bro isn't it. Maybe you think about that next time you're about to pop off
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no problem with people attacking my bro.  I think the guy is an asshole.  You were attacking me by insinuating I would turn in my own brother to the police.  That's hardly on the same plane with expecting our immigration laws to be enforced.
Click to expand...

LOL at your bros an asshole comment, that was good. You are obviously not the same kind of law Nazi as the other poster in this convo so I won't group you two together. You seem to be about less government control and more personal freedom which I agree with. In a way that can be related to open border thinking. Survival of the fittest, opportunity for all, free market and free society. I'm not that extreme but it does relate and fall in line with your way of thinking.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> When Donald Trump was electioneering he talked about the need to deport murderers, rapists, and many bad hombres. No-one hearing these words ever imagined his police would start going after people with broken tail lights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Entering the country ILLEGALLY does.
> 
> How many years is it going to take to get that through your head?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One historic misdemeanor does not make a mother-of-four a criminal.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
Click to expand...


can't say I  think much of your dad


----------



## Slade3200

WillHaftawaite said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> can't say I  think much of your dad
Click to expand...

Watch it dude... you would be lucky to be a quarter of the man he was


----------



## Hugo Furst

Slade3200 said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> can't say I  think much of your dad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Watch it dude... you would be lucky to be a quarter of the man he was
Click to expand...


On the contrary, from your post, it seems I'm already twice the man he was


----------



## Slade3200

WillHaftawaite said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> can't say I  think much of your dad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Watch it dude... you would be lucky to be a quarter of the man he was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the contrary, from your post, it seems I'm already twice the man he was
Click to expand...

You make a snap judgement about a person from a sliver of information. I think your post shows you for what you really are... an ignorant egotistical douche bag who thinks his shit doesn't sink. You're a joke and you have no clue what you are talking about


----------



## MrShangles

Eloy said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If  you get a ticket for a broken taillight, and you don't get it fixed....
> 
> (psst, yes, it does make you a criminal)
> 
> and now she is paying the fine prescribed by law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Having a broken tail light dows not make a person a criminal.
> When Donald Trump was electioneering he talked about the need to deport murderers, rapists, and many bad hombres. No-one hearing these words ever imagined his police would start going after people with broken tail lights.
Click to expand...


He said criminals, is a broken tail light plus illegal immigrant , isn't that criminal? Just saying 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eloy

Andylusion said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. I'm with Eloy in this. You can't just assume that because somebody is from a foreign country they are violent criminals or a threat to our safety, That's ignorant and just plain wrong. This is the land of opportunity, how priveleged are we? How lucky are we have been born here? you lack any kind of compassion and perspective when talking about this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
Click to expand...

I understand America heads the table of incarcerations among western nations.


----------



## keepitreal

Eloy said:


> Etherion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's not. She broke the law, as seen here
> 
> 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal. Get real.
Click to expand...




Eloy said:


> Getting a traffic ticket 20 years ago does not make a person a criminal.


Lol... illegally entering the United States is a misdemeanor...
Illegally entering Mexico is a felony

EVERY fucking country has immigration laws idiot!
And, comparing a traffic violation to illegal entry is wack!


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They threw my brother in jail for jay walking and then not showing up in court.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess your family is just better than mine. Do you think that every cop that has let somebody out of a ticket should have their badge stripped away? They are after all condoning breaking the law under your premise.
> 
> How about if your buddy is giving you a ride and he runs a stop sign or goes 10mph over the speed limit. You report him or do you condone the lawlessness?
Click to expand...


I would report him.  Of course all my buddies are law abiding people, who would never run a stop sign of go over the speed limit.

You hang with criminals, and then think "no one should report their criminal buddy"?    

Honestly, all the people I know, if they saw me breaking the law like that, they would report me.  Or more likely they'd be the crap out of me themselves.  


Again, I'm with good people.  I can't even relate to what you are talking about.  Who does that?  Are you running stop signs and speeding all the time?   That's the circle of people you hang with?

I don't even understand how we got here.   We came from a nation where if you stole someone's cow, they hung your criminal butt on a tree.   Now we have people saying this on a forums?    This is how far we have fallen as a society?   This is how pathetic weak, and corrupt men are?  "Real men" today, simply run stops signs, and break all the traffic laws, and you ask "would you report them?" 

I don't understand you or your people at all.  Kind of glad about it too.


----------



## Andylusion

Eloy said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was she here illegally?  If yes... then that is a law breaker.   That is a criminal.   We have laws.  You either follow them, or you don't. ...
> 
> 
> 
> In normal English usage, to call someone with an historic misdemeanor "a law breaker" and "a criminal" is clearly hyperbole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Really......    So I can vandalize your home, steal from you, even assault you, and several other things which under most states is considered a "misdemeanor", and you would never consider me a criminal?    Really?  That's your argument?   That's your claim?
> 
> You people... LOL... twisting yourself inside and out, into illogical pretzels, to justify your idiotic position.  My 10 year old nephew is smarter than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where I live, house breaking, theft and battery are not the same as a broken tail light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to explain to a judge that they can't throw you in jail for a broken tail light if you refuse to pay a ticket for it.   We'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand America heads the table of incarcerations among western nations.
Click to expand...


Yes.   We punish criminals.   That's a plus.    The problem is people like you who promote criminals, which is why we have so many to incarcerate.

Stop promoting criminal activity, and we'll have fewer of them to put in prison.


----------



## Andylusion

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there are victimless crimes.  If I smoke a doobie, who is the victim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just explained that.   I don't know how I can be any clearer.
> 
> When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.   I can't tell you the number of times other criminals doing other things, claim "well that guy smokes pot, and he's not in trouble. Why am I in trouble?"
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care.    To them, you are a criminal like them.  So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> 
> Beyond that even, the vast majority of this crap about how your pot smoking has no victims, I just don't meet those people.   Where are these people?  In real life, not on a forum.   Everyone's crime is victimless on a forum.
> 
> It's ironic, because I'm actually talking with a guy dealing with one of these victim-less crime people right now.
> 
> He's a co-worker who is in the middle of a marriage break down.   His wife kicked him out of the house and I asked him what was going on.    Well... his father is this Willie Nelson wannabe, who smokes pot constantly.
> 
> His father's 'wives' have all divorced him, some remarried thinking he'd become a man, and divorced him again because he went back on the weed.    His children hate him.  His grand kids don't know him, most of them.   They guy is lonely, living in a shack with his pot.
> 
> So this dudes wife, is now accusing him on being on weed, because he's the one guy that deals with loser pot head grampa.   Then when he got kicked out, he slept at pot-heads shack, only to come into work smelling like pot.   Well you can't have a pot head running the fork lift.
> 
> And then on top of that, his daughter is turning into a hellion, and she says "well gramps breaks the law so...."  to justify the insanity she's into.
> 
> Now the typical pot head will say "it's everyone elses fault that there are these problems".
> 
> In reality, there is one guy screwing up the lives of literally dozens of people, his wives lives, his kids lives, and his grand kids lives, and I bit you anything he's sitting at home smoking pot saying "this is a victim-less crime!".
> 
> Well... he's wrong.  And no offense, but you are wrong too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that's just stupid.  That means it's immoral to break any law.  The "crime" committed by the guy in your example is being irresponsible and a bad father, not smoking weed.  Plenty of people smoke pot and are good responsible people.
> 
> You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do.
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> For the record, I don't smoke pot, so your insinuations are groundless and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course we are entitled to impose our moral code on other people.
> 
> Of course.   What do you think ALL.... EVERY SINGLE LAW.... is?   Every law is a moral code.
> 
> There are countries where you can legally rape women.   The reason they do, is because they have a different moral code.   They reason we do not, is because we have a different moral code.
> 
> Every law, is a moral code.   Yes, breaking any law.... ANY LAW.... is wrong.
> 
> What makes your version of laws any more valid, than my version?   Is it not just your moral code, that you think is better than my moral code?    Are you not as much a Nazi as you claim I am?
> 
> Well you have the right to be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fact that we do it doesn't mean we are entitled to do it.   Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since the Germans were "entitled" to impose their moral code on their population.  You have basically endorsed the theory that there are no unjust laws.  Only a douche bag believes that.
> 
> You are the one with the Nazi code of ethics, not me.
Click to expand...


Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since you have said it was being a Nazi to impose your morals on the Germans.

Was it wrong to impose your morality on the Germans?  Yes or no.


----------



## Slade3200

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like one of those criminals. Did you turn him in after he didn't show up in court? That would be the lawful thing to do, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess your family is just better than mine. Do you think that every cop that has let somebody out of a ticket should have their badge stripped away? They are after all condoning breaking the law under your premise.
> 
> How about if your buddy is giving you a ride and he runs a stop sign or goes 10mph over the speed limit. You report him or do you condone the lawlessness?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would report him.  Of course all my buddies are law abiding people, who would never run a stop sign of go over the speed limit.
> 
> You hang with criminals, and then think "no one should report their criminal buddy"?
> 
> Honestly, all the people I know, if they saw me breaking the law like that, they would report me.  Or more likely they'd be the crap out of me themselves.
> 
> 
> Again, I'm with good people.  I can't even relate to what you are talking about.  Who does that?  Are you running stop signs and speeding all the time?   That's the circle of people you hang with?
> 
> I don't even understand how we got here.   We came from a nation where if you stole someone's cow, they hung your criminal butt on a tree.   Now we have people saying this on a forums?    This is how far we have fallen as a society?   This is how pathetic weak, and corrupt men are?  "Real men" today, simply run stops signs, and break all the traffic laws, and you ask "would you report them?"
> 
> I don't understand you or your people at all.  Kind of glad about it too.
Click to expand...

There is no way you can be serious. It's human nature to make mistakes and good people don't go tell on their family and friends unless it's a truly fucked up situation. If in your own warped reality you really think you are being honest then I really don't believe that you have many friends or close connections in this life. The world does not work that way. We aren't robots. One of the strongest ways to build trust and connections is by revealing secrets and our imperfections, and our mess ups without the fear that the person we are telling is going to go turn us in.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Your father giving you a fake ID is very poor parenting. He condoned encouraged and assisted you in breaking the law. That you think it was a good idea shows just how stupid you are.


----------



## Slade3200

RetiredGySgt said:


> Your father giving you a fake ID is very poor parenting. He condoned encouraged and assisted you in breaking the law. That you think it was a good idea shows just how stupid you are.


You got no clue man about the type of person and parent my father was so you can just shut the fuck up about that. It was my mistake to share the story with you judgmental pricks. I should have known better as I see time and time again so many of you pompous aholes jumping to false conclusions and judgements about things that you only have a sliver of information about.  End of subject


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your father giving you a fake ID is very poor parenting. He condoned encouraged and assisted you in breaking the law. That you think it was a good idea shows just how stupid you are.
> 
> 
> 
> You got no clue man about the type of person and parent my father was so you can just shut the fuck up about that. It was my mistake to share the story with you judgmental pricks. I should have known better as I see time and time again so many of you pompous aholes jumping to false conclusions and judgements about things that you only have a sliver of information about.  End of subject
Click to expand...


Yeah you should have known better.  If your father had taught you better, you would have known better.   Judgemental pricks?   You told us that your father gave you a fake ID.   We're supposed to judge actions.   If we don't judge actions, then murders should be allowed to go free.  We can't call them "murderers" even though they murdered, because that would be judgemental?

Your father intentionally, and directly, violated the law, and give you a fake ID.   That is a massive violation of law.   He is a terrible person, and he is a terrible example to you, and proof is this thread where you are supporting other criminal actions.

Yeah it was a mistake to share that if you think its ok.  What he did was SHAMEFUL.  You should be ASHAMED of that.    I would.   If my father had ever done anything like that I would never tell anyone anywhere that my father engaged in such a shameful activity.

Thank G-d he wouldn't do such a thing.

If my father ever did, I would only post it on here as an example of what a bad father does.  I would be on here saying "yeah my father did some horrible stuff, but I'm not like him"... not "My father did illegal stuff, and you all are pricks for pointing out the illegal things he did were.... illegal!  How dare you!"....

You are seriously messed up in the head.


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> You people act like that would be bad.  Let me give you a quick story of what happened to me.
> 
> I was a little kid.  I don't remember how old.   But you remember when video games on computer came on diskettes?
> 
> View attachment 116980
> 
> Remember those?     Well I had a game on one of these diskettes.  It was a legally purchased game, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But I broke the disk.   And the game wouldn't play anymore.  So I walked down to the computer store, where I happen to know they had a Demo of that very game.  And I swapped out the disk.  I put my disk in their computer, and put their disk in my pocket.
> 
> They looked identical, so they couldn't tell.
> 
> My father found out.   First he spanked me, then he dragged my butt down to the store, asked for the store manager, and told him... in public.... that I was a thief, and stole their property, and that if they wanted to call the police, he would accept whatever penalty they deemed fit.... in the middle of the store.  Right in the middle.
> 
> I was terrified, and on the ground looking up at this store manager and my father.
> 
> You want to know something?   That was the best learning experience of my life.  I never stole JACK SQUAT from anyone anywhere ever.     Even to this day, every single bit of software, every movie video, every music song, every operating system, Windows or Mac OS, that I own..... every single bit of it is 100% paid for, and legally purchased.
> 
> So let me answer your question..... if I caught my nephew or brother, or sister doing something illegal, first I would confront them directly, and then if they refused to make it right.... yeah, I would turn them in.
> 
> My family is not a family of law breakers.   We might mess up, but we make it right, and take our penalties as a real man should.   YES I WOULD TURN THEM IN.  That's what good mature adult people do.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate the lesson that your dad taught you. I was raised with similar values... but it did shock me when I was 16 and I got a fake ID, never told my parents. It lasted for a year then delaminated. 2 years later My family was going on a vacation for my moms birthday and my dad had found the ID in my drawer. The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new. He said this trip we are going to the casino and I'm teaching you how to play blackjack and poker.
> 
> Yes it was illegal but it was also a victimless crime.
> i don't condone illegal border crossing, I don't think it is fair to those who go through the legal process. I'm fine with cracking down on that system and making it better. But the people who do it are not violent criminals, they are often poor and desperate and looking for a better life for their families. That may not excuse their actions but but it gives me compassion for their situation and an open mind on how to deal with millions of people who are in a tough spot. Especially if they have children who have lived here most of their lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a victim-less crime.   No such thing.
> 
> Every single time you commit a crime, you justify crime to everyone else.  You victimize the entire nation as a whole.
> 
> Every person ever caught in any crime immediately points to other people doing it, and saying "See? They do it, so why can't I".    The very act of calling it a victim-less crime, creates more crime.
> 
> All you have to do is go to a prison, and talk to the people there, and every single one will say they shouldn't be there, because other people have done wrong things, and they are not there.
> 
> And all I need for proof of my claim... is your own story, and post.     Your father committed a crime, and because of that, he taught you that crime is ok.... which is why you are here on this thread right now, justifying crime.
> 
> You are living proof of exactly what I was saying.  By your father giving a pass to crime, he taught you to give a pass to crime, and you are here trying to teach others to give a pass to crime.
> 
> And compare that to my family, which taught me right from wrong, and that crime is always wrong, and so I don't do it, and I'm teaching others to not do it either.
> 
> Everything I claimed played out right on this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess your family is just better than mine. Do you think that every cop that has let somebody out of a ticket should have their badge stripped away? They are after all condoning breaking the law under your premise.
> 
> How about if your buddy is giving you a ride and he runs a stop sign or goes 10mph over the speed limit. You report him or do you condone the lawlessness?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would report him.  Of course all my buddies are law abiding people, who would never run a stop sign of go over the speed limit.
> 
> You hang with criminals, and then think "no one should report their criminal buddy"?
> 
> Honestly, all the people I know, if they saw me breaking the law like that, they would report me.  Or more likely they'd be the crap out of me themselves.
> 
> 
> Again, I'm with good people.  I can't even relate to what you are talking about.  Who does that?  Are you running stop signs and speeding all the time?   That's the circle of people you hang with?
> 
> I don't even understand how we got here.   We came from a nation where if you stole someone's cow, they hung your criminal butt on a tree.   Now we have people saying this on a forums?    This is how far we have fallen as a society?   This is how pathetic weak, and corrupt men are?  "Real men" today, simply run stops signs, and break all the traffic laws, and you ask "would you report them?"
> 
> I don't understand you or your people at all.  Kind of glad about it too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no way you can be serious. It's human nature to make mistakes and good people don't go tell on their family and friends unless it's a truly fucked up situation. If in your own warped reality you really think you are being honest then I really don't believe that you have many friends or close connections in this life. The world does not work that way. We aren't robots. One of the strongest ways to build trust and connections is by revealing secrets and our imperfections, and our mess ups without the fear that the person we are telling is going to go turn us in.
Click to expand...


We're not talking about mistakes.   I assumed you are not talking about mistakes.

A mistake is driving to work, and being zoned out, and not realizing that you are driving 70 in a 65 zone.   That is a mistake.   An accident. 

You can't accidentally walk into another country, and accidentally not notice everyone speaks English instead of Spanish, and accidentally rent a house, and accidentally pop out four kids, and accidentally over stay your temporary visa, and accidentally not know you are supposed to have a legal permit to be in a different country.

So when you say run a stop sign, or break the speed limit, I'm using that context to assume you mean people who intentionally drive through stops signs, and fly over speed limits.  I hope in a car, and my buddy is flying through stop signs, and buzzing 80 in the 55 zone... yeah, I'm going to beat the crap out of him, demand he drop me off... ANYWHERE.... just let me out and I'll walk home... and I'm calling the state highway patrol to let them know there is a Ford F150 that's driving like an idiot.    Yeah.   Yes absolutely.

If an American goes to Mexico, and is caught illegally being in their country, it's 3 years prison, and $5,000 fine.   I don't see many Americans 'accidentally' entering Mexico.  Nor do they get a pass by Mexican authorities when they do.   You don't see in Mexican news outlets "poor mother of 4 imprisoned, fined, and deported".   Happens all the time down there.  Only here in retard criminal supporter world, do you hear this.


----------



## Slade3200

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your father giving you a fake ID is very poor parenting. He condoned encouraged and assisted you in breaking the law. That you think it was a good idea shows just how stupid you are.
> 
> 
> 
> You got no clue man about the type of person and parent my father was so you can just shut the fuck up about that. It was my mistake to share the story with you judgmental pricks. I should have known better as I see time and time again so many of you pompous aholes jumping to false conclusions and judgements about things that you only have a sliver of information about.  End of subject
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you should have known better.  If your father had taught you better, you would have known better.   Judgemental pricks?   You told us that your father gave you a fake ID.   We're supposed to judge actions.   If we don't judge actions, then murders should be allowed to go free.  We can't call them "murderers" even though they murdered, because that would be judgemental?
> 
> Your father intentionally, and directly, violated the law, and give you a fake ID.   That is a massive violation of law.   He is a terrible person, and he is a terrible example to you, and proof is this thread where you are supporting other criminal actions.
> 
> Yeah it was a mistake to share that if you think its ok.  What he did was SHAMEFUL.  You should be ASHAMED of that.    I would.   If my father had ever done anything like that I would never tell anyone anywhere that my father engaged in such a shameful activity.
> 
> Thank G-d he wouldn't do such a thing.
> 
> If my father ever did, I would only post it on here as an example of what a bad father does.  I would be on here saying "yeah my father did some horrible stuff, but I'm not like him"... not "My father did illegal stuff, and you all are pricks for pointing out the illegal things he did were.... illegal!  How dare you!"....
> 
> You are seriously messed up in the head.
Click to expand...

I read the first paragraph of your garbage then stopped. You are distorting my own story like you do with most other discussions because you are trying to mold it to fit your narrative and win an  argument, how pathetic. I'm not here to talk about my personal life, nor will I stand for anybody bad mouthing my father, that's pitiful for you to even go there. I made the mistake of bringing it up and you all reacted exactly like I should have known... like ignorant, pretentious douche bags who think they got it all figured out. You don't know shit. Congrats if you were trying to get under my skin. Y'all make me sick. You win


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your father giving you a fake ID is very poor parenting. He condoned encouraged and assisted you in breaking the law. That you think it was a good idea shows just how stupid you are.
> 
> 
> 
> You got no clue man about the type of person and parent my father was so you can just shut the fuck up about that. It was my mistake to share the story with you judgmental pricks. I should have known better as I see time and time again so many of you pompous aholes jumping to false conclusions and judgements about things that you only have a sliver of information about.  End of subject
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah you should have known better.  If your father had taught you better, you would have known better.   Judgemental pricks?   You told us that your father gave you a fake ID.   We're supposed to judge actions.   If we don't judge actions, then murders should be allowed to go free.  We can't call them "murderers" even though they murdered, because that would be judgemental?
> 
> Your father intentionally, and directly, violated the law, and give you a fake ID.   That is a massive violation of law.   He is a terrible person, and he is a terrible example to you, and proof is this thread where you are supporting other criminal actions.
> 
> Yeah it was a mistake to share that if you think its ok.  What he did was SHAMEFUL.  You should be ASHAMED of that.    I would.   If my father had ever done anything like that I would never tell anyone anywhere that my father engaged in such a shameful activity.
> 
> Thank G-d he wouldn't do such a thing.
> 
> If my father ever did, I would only post it on here as an example of what a bad father does.  I would be on here saying "yeah my father did some horrible stuff, but I'm not like him"... not "My father did illegal stuff, and you all are pricks for pointing out the illegal things he did were.... illegal!  How dare you!"....
> 
> You are seriously messed up in the head.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read the first paragraph of your garbage then stopped. You are distorting my own story like you do with most other discussions because you are trying to mold it to fit your narrative and win an  argument, how pathetic. I'm not here to talk about my personal life, nor will I stand for anybody bad mouthing my father, that's pitiful for you to even go there. I made the mistake of bringing it up and you all reacted exactly like I should have known... like ignorant, pretentious douche bags who think they got it all figured out. You don't know shit. Congrats if you were trying to get under my skin. Y'all make me sick. You win
Click to expand...

*
The day of the trip he sits me down and told me he found the ID, I turned white. He let the fear linger for a minute the pulled it out of his pocket, relaminated and looking like new.*

"Your father gave you a fake ID"

*You are distorting my own story like you do with most other discussions because you are trying to mold it to fit your narrative and win an argument, how pathetic.






*
Ok dude... whatever you say.  I don't wanna break your safe zone, so whatever floats your boat.


----------



## bripat9643

Andylusion said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there are victimless crimes.  If I smoke a doobie, who is the victim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just explained that.   I don't know how I can be any clearer.
> 
> When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.   I can't tell you the number of times other criminals doing other things, claim "well that guy smokes pot, and he's not in trouble. Why am I in trouble?"
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care.    To them, you are a criminal like them.  So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> 
> Beyond that even, the vast majority of this crap about how your pot smoking has no victims, I just don't meet those people.   Where are these people?  In real life, not on a forum.   Everyone's crime is victimless on a forum.
> 
> It's ironic, because I'm actually talking with a guy dealing with one of these victim-less crime people right now.
> 
> He's a co-worker who is in the middle of a marriage break down.   His wife kicked him out of the house and I asked him what was going on.    Well... his father is this Willie Nelson wannabe, who smokes pot constantly.
> 
> His father's 'wives' have all divorced him, some remarried thinking he'd become a man, and divorced him again because he went back on the weed.    His children hate him.  His grand kids don't know him, most of them.   They guy is lonely, living in a shack with his pot.
> 
> So this dudes wife, is now accusing him on being on weed, because he's the one guy that deals with loser pot head grampa.   Then when he got kicked out, he slept at pot-heads shack, only to come into work smelling like pot.   Well you can't have a pot head running the fork lift.
> 
> And then on top of that, his daughter is turning into a hellion, and she says "well gramps breaks the law so...."  to justify the insanity she's into.
> 
> Now the typical pot head will say "it's everyone elses fault that there are these problems".
> 
> In reality, there is one guy screwing up the lives of literally dozens of people, his wives lives, his kids lives, and his grand kids lives, and I bit you anything he's sitting at home smoking pot saying "this is a victim-less crime!".
> 
> Well... he's wrong.  And no offense, but you are wrong too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that's just stupid.  That means it's immoral to break any law.  The "crime" committed by the guy in your example is being irresponsible and a bad father, not smoking weed.  Plenty of people smoke pot and are good responsible people.
> 
> You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do.
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> For the record, I don't smoke pot, so your insinuations are groundless and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course we are entitled to impose our moral code on other people.
> 
> Of course.   What do you think ALL.... EVERY SINGLE LAW.... is?   Every law is a moral code.
> 
> There are countries where you can legally rape women.   The reason they do, is because they have a different moral code.   They reason we do not, is because we have a different moral code.
> 
> Every law, is a moral code.   Yes, breaking any law.... ANY LAW.... is wrong.
> 
> What makes your version of laws any more valid, than my version?   Is it not just your moral code, that you think is better than my moral code?    Are you not as much a Nazi as you claim I am?
> 
> Well you have the right to be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fact that we do it doesn't mean we are entitled to do it.   Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since the Germans were "entitled" to impose their moral code on their population.  You have basically endorsed the theory that there are no unjust laws.  Only a douche bag believes that.
> 
> You are the one with the Nazi code of ethics, not me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since you have said it was being a Nazi to impose your morals on the Germans.
> 
> Was it wrong to impose your morality on the Germans?  Yes or no.
Click to expand...


You are an idiot.  You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law.  It was legal in Germany to send Jews to Auschwitz, so you must support it.  Whatever Americans think about it is irrelevant, according to your theory of morality.  What makes our laws any better than their, in your view?


----------



## Andylusion

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just explained that.   I don't know how I can be any clearer.
> 
> When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.   I can't tell you the number of times other criminals doing other things, claim "well that guy smokes pot, and he's not in trouble. Why am I in trouble?"
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care.    To them, you are a criminal like them.  So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> 
> Beyond that even, the vast majority of this crap about how your pot smoking has no victims, I just don't meet those people.   Where are these people?  In real life, not on a forum.   Everyone's crime is victimless on a forum.
> 
> It's ironic, because I'm actually talking with a guy dealing with one of these victim-less crime people right now.
> 
> He's a co-worker who is in the middle of a marriage break down.   His wife kicked him out of the house and I asked him what was going on.    Well... his father is this Willie Nelson wannabe, who smokes pot constantly.
> 
> His father's 'wives' have all divorced him, some remarried thinking he'd become a man, and divorced him again because he went back on the weed.    His children hate him.  His grand kids don't know him, most of them.   They guy is lonely, living in a shack with his pot.
> 
> So this dudes wife, is now accusing him on being on weed, because he's the one guy that deals with loser pot head grampa.   Then when he got kicked out, he slept at pot-heads shack, only to come into work smelling like pot.   Well you can't have a pot head running the fork lift.
> 
> And then on top of that, his daughter is turning into a hellion, and she says "well gramps breaks the law so...."  to justify the insanity she's into.
> 
> Now the typical pot head will say "it's everyone elses fault that there are these problems".
> 
> In reality, there is one guy screwing up the lives of literally dozens of people, his wives lives, his kids lives, and his grand kids lives, and I bit you anything he's sitting at home smoking pot saying "this is a victim-less crime!".
> 
> Well... he's wrong.  And no offense, but you are wrong too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that's just stupid.  That means it's immoral to break any law.  The "crime" committed by the guy in your example is being irresponsible and a bad father, not smoking weed.  Plenty of people smoke pot and are good responsible people.
> 
> You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do.
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> For the record, I don't smoke pot, so your insinuations are groundless and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course we are entitled to impose our moral code on other people.
> 
> Of course.   What do you think ALL.... EVERY SINGLE LAW.... is?   Every law is a moral code.
> 
> There are countries where you can legally rape women.   The reason they do, is because they have a different moral code.   They reason we do not, is because we have a different moral code.
> 
> Every law, is a moral code.   Yes, breaking any law.... ANY LAW.... is wrong.
> 
> What makes your version of laws any more valid, than my version?   Is it not just your moral code, that you think is better than my moral code?    Are you not as much a Nazi as you claim I am?
> 
> Well you have the right to be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fact that we do it doesn't mean we are entitled to do it.   Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since the Germans were "entitled" to impose their moral code on their population.  You have basically endorsed the theory that there are no unjust laws.  Only a douche bag believes that.
> 
> You are the one with the Nazi code of ethics, not me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since you have said it was being a Nazi to impose your morals on the Germans.
> 
> Was it wrong to impose your morality on the Germans?  Yes or no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are an idiot.  You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law.  It was legal in Germany to send Jews to Auschwitz, so you must support it.  Whatever Americans think about it is irrelevant, according to your theory of morality.  What makes our laws any better than their, in your view?
Click to expand...


Ok, let's try to prove our claims.

I'll go first.  I propose that you claimed that anyone imposing their morality on others makes them a Nazi. 

As proof, I'll quote your post which said:

*"You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do."
*
Therefore, by your own words, you imposing your morality on the Nazis at Auschwitz, makes you.... a Nazi.

In order for you to practice what you are preaching... you would have to say what the Nazis did was perfectly fine, and you are not going to try and impose your morality on them by saying it was wrong.   Because... you wouldn't want to be a Nazi imposing your morality on others, and controlling what the Germans did in WW2.

So your turn.

Please quote the text where "*You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law*."

I'd like to see this quote text myself.


----------



## bripat9643

Andylusion said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but that's just stupid.  That means it's immoral to break any law.  The "crime" committed by the guy in your example is being irresponsible and a bad father, not smoking weed.  Plenty of people smoke pot and are good responsible people.
> 
> You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do.
> 
> Go fuck yourself.
> 
> For the record, I don't smoke pot, so your insinuations are groundless and insulting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course we are entitled to impose our moral code on other people.
> 
> Of course.   What do you think ALL.... EVERY SINGLE LAW.... is?   Every law is a moral code.
> 
> There are countries where you can legally rape women.   The reason they do, is because they have a different moral code.   They reason we do not, is because we have a different moral code.
> 
> Every law, is a moral code.   Yes, breaking any law.... ANY LAW.... is wrong.
> 
> What makes your version of laws any more valid, than my version?   Is it not just your moral code, that you think is better than my moral code?    Are you not as much a Nazi as you claim I am?
> 
> Well you have the right to be wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fact that we do it doesn't mean we are entitled to do it.   Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since the Germans were "entitled" to impose their moral code on their population.  You have basically endorsed the theory that there are no unjust laws.  Only a douche bag believes that.
> 
> You are the one with the Nazi code of ethics, not me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since you have said it was being a Nazi to impose your morals on the Germans.
> 
> Was it wrong to impose your morality on the Germans?  Yes or no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are an idiot.  You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law.  It was legal in Germany to send Jews to Auschwitz, so you must support it.  Whatever Americans think about it is irrelevant, according to your theory of morality.  What makes our laws any better than their, in your view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's try to prove our claims.
> 
> I'll go first.  I propose that you claimed that anyone imposing their morality on others makes them a Nazi.
> 
> As proof, I'll quote your post which said:
> 
> *"You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do."
> *
> Therefore, by your own words, you imposing your morality on the Nazis at Auschwitz, makes you.... a Nazi.
> 
> In order for you to practice what you are preaching... you would have to say what the Nazis did was perfectly fine, and you are not going to try and impose your morality on them by saying it was wrong.   Because... you wouldn't want to be a Nazi imposing your morality on others, and controlling what the Germans did in WW2.
> 
> So your turn.
> 
> Please quote the text where "*You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law*."
> 
> I'd like to see this quote text myself.
Click to expand...


Here ya go, Nazi:

_When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.

Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care. To them, you are a criminal like them. So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
_​So, according to you, every law must be obeyed, even if the law says put Jews in gas ovens.  You don't concede the possibility that some laws shouldn't be obeyed.

Now, in the case of the Nazis, what they did had victim.  The entire purpose of law is to protect victims. Controlling what substances people consume is not a legitimate function of the law because there are no victims.  Law is about justice, which means it's about righting wrongs.  No one is wronged when you smoke a joint.  

End of story.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course we are entitled to impose our moral code on other people.
> 
> Of course.   What do you think ALL.... EVERY SINGLE LAW.... is?   Every law is a moral code.
> 
> There are countries where you can legally rape women.   The reason they do, is because they have a different moral code.   They reason we do not, is because we have a different moral code.
> 
> Every law, is a moral code.   Yes, breaking any law.... ANY LAW.... is wrong.
> 
> What makes your version of laws any more valid, than my version?   Is it not just your moral code, that you think is better than my moral code?    Are you not as much a Nazi as you claim I am?
> 
> Well you have the right to be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that we do it doesn't mean we are entitled to do it.   Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since the Germans were "entitled" to impose their moral code on their population.  You have basically endorsed the theory that there are no unjust laws.  Only a douche bag believes that.
> 
> You are the one with the Nazi code of ethics, not me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since you have said it was being a Nazi to impose your morals on the Germans.
> 
> Was it wrong to impose your morality on the Germans?  Yes or no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are an idiot.  You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law.  It was legal in Germany to send Jews to Auschwitz, so you must support it.  Whatever Americans think about it is irrelevant, according to your theory of morality.  What makes our laws any better than their, in your view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's try to prove our claims.
> 
> I'll go first.  I propose that you claimed that anyone imposing their morality on others makes them a Nazi.
> 
> As proof, I'll quote your post which said:
> 
> *"You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do."
> *
> Therefore, by your own words, you imposing your morality on the Nazis at Auschwitz, makes you.... a Nazi.
> 
> In order for you to practice what you are preaching... you would have to say what the Nazis did was perfectly fine, and you are not going to try and impose your morality on them by saying it was wrong.   Because... you wouldn't want to be a Nazi imposing your morality on others, and controlling what the Germans did in WW2.
> 
> So your turn.
> 
> Please quote the text where "*You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law*."
> 
> I'd like to see this quote text myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here ya go, Nazi:
> 
> _When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care. To them, you are a criminal like them. So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> _​So, according to you, every law must be obeyed, even if the law says put Jews in gas ovens.  You don't concede the possibility that some laws shouldn't be obeyed.
> 
> Now, in the case of the Nazis, what they did had victim.  The entire purpose of law is to protect victims. Controlling what substances people consume is not a legitimate function of the law because there are no victims.  Law is about justice, which means it's about righting wrongs.  No one is wronged when you smoke a joint.
> 
> End of story.
Click to expand...

No where in that quote did he say every law. But then you know that and are just whining cause your pet peeve is to whine about breaking laws you personally dont like.


----------



## bripat9643

RetiredGySgt said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that we do it doesn't mean we are entitled to do it.   Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since the Germans were "entitled" to impose their moral code on their population.  You have basically endorsed the theory that there are no unjust laws.  Only a douche bag believes that.
> 
> You are the one with the Nazi code of ethics, not me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since you have said it was being a Nazi to impose your morals on the Germans.
> 
> Was it wrong to impose your morality on the Germans?  Yes or no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are an idiot.  You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law.  It was legal in Germany to send Jews to Auschwitz, so you must support it.  Whatever Americans think about it is irrelevant, according to your theory of morality.  What makes our laws any better than their, in your view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's try to prove our claims.
> 
> I'll go first.  I propose that you claimed that anyone imposing their morality on others makes them a Nazi.
> 
> As proof, I'll quote your post which said:
> 
> *"You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do."
> *
> Therefore, by your own words, you imposing your morality on the Nazis at Auschwitz, makes you.... a Nazi.
> 
> In order for you to practice what you are preaching... you would have to say what the Nazis did was perfectly fine, and you are not going to try and impose your morality on them by saying it was wrong.   Because... you wouldn't want to be a Nazi imposing your morality on others, and controlling what the Germans did in WW2.
> 
> So your turn.
> 
> Please quote the text where "*You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law*."
> 
> I'd like to see this quote text myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here ya go, Nazi:
> 
> _When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care. To them, you are a criminal like them. So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> _​So, according to you, every law must be obeyed, even if the law says put Jews in gas ovens.  You don't concede the possibility that some laws shouldn't be obeyed.
> 
> Now, in the case of the Nazis, what they did had victim.  The entire purpose of law is to protect victims. Controlling what substances people consume is not a legitimate function of the law because there are no victims.  Law is about justice, which means it's about righting wrongs.  No one is wronged when you smoke a joint.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No where in that quote did he say every law. But then you know that and are just whining cause your pet peeve is to whine about breaking laws you personally dont like.
Click to expand...


Really?  Did he mention any laws that it's OK to break?  No, he said explicitly that there are no laws that it's OK to break.   

So you must be happy that good Nazis were following the law when they put Jews in gas ovens.

Anyone who claims that it's wrong to break any law on the books is a stupid goose-stepping Nazi douche bag.  Breaking laws is how this country got started, moron.  Breaking unjust laws is the highest form of patriotism.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

bripat9643 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you have no problem with Auschwitz since you have said it was being a Nazi to impose your morals on the Germans.
> 
> Was it wrong to impose your morality on the Germans?  Yes or no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are an idiot.  You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law.  It was legal in Germany to send Jews to Auschwitz, so you must support it.  Whatever Americans think about it is irrelevant, according to your theory of morality.  What makes our laws any better than their, in your view?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, let's try to prove our claims.
> 
> I'll go first.  I propose that you claimed that anyone imposing their morality on others makes them a Nazi.
> 
> As proof, I'll quote your post which said:
> 
> *"You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do."
> *
> Therefore, by your own words, you imposing your morality on the Nazis at Auschwitz, makes you.... a Nazi.
> 
> In order for you to practice what you are preaching... you would have to say what the Nazis did was perfectly fine, and you are not going to try and impose your morality on them by saying it was wrong.   Because... you wouldn't want to be a Nazi imposing your morality on others, and controlling what the Germans did in WW2.
> 
> So your turn.
> 
> Please quote the text where "*You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law*."
> 
> I'd like to see this quote text myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here ya go, Nazi:
> 
> _When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care. To them, you are a criminal like them. So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> _​So, according to you, every law must be obeyed, even if the law says put Jews in gas ovens.  You don't concede the possibility that some laws shouldn't be obeyed.
> 
> Now, in the case of the Nazis, what they did had victim.  The entire purpose of law is to protect victims. Controlling what substances people consume is not a legitimate function of the law because there are no victims.  Law is about justice, which means it's about righting wrongs.  No one is wronged when you smoke a joint.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No where in that quote did he say every law. But then you know that and are just whining cause your pet peeve is to whine about breaking laws you personally dont like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Did he mention any laws that it's OK to break?  No, he said explicitly that there are no laws that it's OK to break.
> 
> So you must be happy that good Nazis were following the law when they put Jews in gas ovens.
> 
> Anyone who claims that it's wrong to break any law on the books is a stupid goose-stepping Nazi douche bag.  Breaking laws is how this country got started, moron.  Breaking unjust laws is the highest form of patriotism.
Click to expand...

Except internet tweebs do not get to decide what are unjust laws, just because you disagree with a law does nt make it unjust get back to me hen at least a third of the Country agrees and is will to rebel over it, you see that is what it took for the revolutionary war to start.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?


----------



## bripat9643

RetiredGySgt said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are an idiot.  You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law.  It was legal in Germany to send Jews to Auschwitz, so you must support it.  Whatever Americans think about it is irrelevant, according to your theory of morality.  What makes our laws any better than their, in your view?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, let's try to prove our claims.
> 
> I'll go first.  I propose that you claimed that anyone imposing their morality on others makes them a Nazi.
> 
> As proof, I'll quote your post which said:
> 
> *"You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do."
> *
> Therefore, by your own words, you imposing your morality on the Nazis at Auschwitz, makes you.... a Nazi.
> 
> In order for you to practice what you are preaching... you would have to say what the Nazis did was perfectly fine, and you are not going to try and impose your morality on them by saying it was wrong.   Because... you wouldn't want to be a Nazi imposing your morality on others, and controlling what the Germans did in WW2.
> 
> So your turn.
> 
> Please quote the text where "*You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law*."
> 
> I'd like to see this quote text myself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here ya go, Nazi:
> 
> _When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care. To them, you are a criminal like them. So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> _​So, according to you, every law must be obeyed, even if the law says put Jews in gas ovens.  You don't concede the possibility that some laws shouldn't be obeyed.
> 
> Now, in the case of the Nazis, what they did had victim.  The entire purpose of law is to protect victims. Controlling what substances people consume is not a legitimate function of the law because there are no victims.  Law is about justice, which means it's about righting wrongs.  No one is wronged when you smoke a joint.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No where in that quote did he say every law. But then you know that and are just whining cause your pet peeve is to whine about breaking laws you personally dont like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Did he mention any laws that it's OK to break?  No, he said explicitly that there are no laws that it's OK to break.
> 
> So you must be happy that good Nazis were following the law when they put Jews in gas ovens.
> 
> Anyone who claims that it's wrong to break any law on the books is a stupid goose-stepping Nazi douche bag.  Breaking laws is how this country got started, moron.  Breaking unjust laws is the highest form of patriotism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except internet tweebs do not get to decide what are unjust laws, just because you disagree with a law does nt make it unjust get back to me hen at least a third of the Country agrees and is will to rebel over it, you see that is what it took for the revolutionary war to start.
Click to expand...

Logic is what determines whether a law is unjust.  If you claim it's immoral to disobey any law, then you assume that all laws are just.  You can't have it both ways.  

Laws that have no victim are unjust.  That's the bottom line.  Herr Obergruppenfuhrer Andylusion believes there all no unjust laws.  He has no principle for separating just laws from the unjust.  That's what makes him a Nazi.


----------



## Andylusion

bripat9643 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, let's try to prove our claims.
> 
> I'll go first.  I propose that you claimed that anyone imposing their morality on others makes them a Nazi.
> 
> As proof, I'll quote your post which said:
> 
> *"You're just another fucking Nazi who believes you are entitled to impose your moral code on other people and control what they do."
> *
> Therefore, by your own words, you imposing your morality on the Nazis at Auschwitz, makes you.... a Nazi.
> 
> In order for you to practice what you are preaching... you would have to say what the Nazis did was perfectly fine, and you are not going to try and impose your morality on them by saying it was wrong.   Because... you wouldn't want to be a Nazi imposing your morality on others, and controlling what the Germans did in WW2.
> 
> So your turn.
> 
> Please quote the text where "*You're the one who says there is no such think as an unjust law*."
> 
> I'd like to see this quote text myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go, Nazi:
> 
> _When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care. To them, you are a criminal like them. So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> _​So, according to you, every law must be obeyed, even if the law says put Jews in gas ovens.  You don't concede the possibility that some laws shouldn't be obeyed.
> 
> Now, in the case of the Nazis, what they did had victim.  The entire purpose of law is to protect victims. Controlling what substances people consume is not a legitimate function of the law because there are no victims.  Law is about justice, which means it's about righting wrongs.  No one is wronged when you smoke a joint.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No where in that quote did he say every law. But then you know that and are just whining cause your pet peeve is to whine about breaking laws you personally dont like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Did he mention any laws that it's OK to break?  No, he said explicitly that there are no laws that it's OK to break.
> 
> So you must be happy that good Nazis were following the law when they put Jews in gas ovens.
> 
> Anyone who claims that it's wrong to break any law on the books is a stupid goose-stepping Nazi douche bag.  Breaking laws is how this country got started, moron.  Breaking unjust laws is the highest form of patriotism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except internet tweebs do not get to decide what are unjust laws, just because you disagree with a law does nt make it unjust get back to me hen at least a third of the Country agrees and is will to rebel over it, you see that is what it took for the revolutionary war to start.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Logic is what determines whether a law is unjust.  If you claim it's immoral to disobey any law, then you assume that all laws are just.  You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Laws that have no victim are unjust.  That's the bottom line.  Herr Obergruppenfuhrer Andylusion believes there all no unjust laws.  He has no principle for separating just laws from the unjust.  That's what makes him a Nazi.
Click to expand...


Logic?   There is nothing in logic that determines right from wrong.    

Further, in the context of the argument, you never made the claim the laws were unjust, only that you didn't like them.

Lastly, you are claiming that no one has the right to enforce their views on others.  So you can't "logically" claim to be against Nazis.  By your own statement, you are not allowed to try and impose your views on the Nazis, because that would make you a Nazi.

Sorry, but YOU can't have it both ways.   

"I'm allowed to enforce my morality that killing millions of people is wrong!  But you can't enforce your morality on me, that doing society destroying drugs is wrong!"

Your position is not logical.  Period.  End.  You lose.

By the way, you in this very thread, are imposing your views of morality on me, claiming that I am a Nazi.

That... in and of itself, makes you a Nazi according to your views that imposing your morality on others makes you a Nazi.

Double fail.  You lose.


----------



## bripat9643

Andylusion said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go, Nazi:
> 
> _When you break the law, you justify law breaking to the rest of society.
> 
> Now you can come up with all your logical explanations for why your law breaking is ok, and their law breaking isn't... but they don't care. To them, you are a criminal like them. So if it's ok for you to break the law, then they should be able to as well.
> _​So, according to you, every law must be obeyed, even if the law says put Jews in gas ovens.  You don't concede the possibility that some laws shouldn't be obeyed.
> 
> Now, in the case of the Nazis, what they did had victim.  The entire purpose of law is to protect victims. Controlling what substances people consume is not a legitimate function of the law because there are no victims.  Law is about justice, which means it's about righting wrongs.  No one is wronged when you smoke a joint.
> 
> End of story.
> 
> 
> 
> No where in that quote did he say every law. But then you know that and are just whining cause your pet peeve is to whine about breaking laws you personally dont like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  Did he mention any laws that it's OK to break?  No, he said explicitly that there are no laws that it's OK to break.
> 
> So you must be happy that good Nazis were following the law when they put Jews in gas ovens.
> 
> Anyone who claims that it's wrong to break any law on the books is a stupid goose-stepping Nazi douche bag.  Breaking laws is how this country got started, moron.  Breaking unjust laws is the highest form of patriotism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except internet tweebs do not get to decide what are unjust laws, just because you disagree with a law does nt make it unjust get back to me hen at least a third of the Country agrees and is will to rebel over it, you see that is what it took for the revolutionary war to start.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Logic is what determines whether a law is unjust.  If you claim it's immoral to disobey any law, then you assume that all laws are just.  You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Laws that have no victim are unjust.  That's the bottom line.  Herr Obergruppenfuhrer Andylusion believes there all no unjust laws.  He has no principle for separating just laws from the unjust.  That's what makes him a Nazi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Logic?   There is nothing in logic that determines right from wrong.
Click to expand...


Sure there is.  Just because it's beyond your mental abilities, that doesn't mean there isn't any.



Andylusion said:


> Further, in the context of the argument, you never made the claim the laws were unjust, only that you didn't like them.



I don't like laws that are unjust - that means any law that doesn't have a victim,



Andylusion said:


> Lastly, you are claiming that no one has the right to enforce their views on others.  So you can't "logically" claim to be against Nazis.  By your own statement, you are not allowed to try and impose your views on the Nazis, because that would make you a Nazi.
> 
> Sorry, but YOU can't have it both ways.



"My views" aren't at issue here.   What is at issue is whether it's somehow evil to break unjust laws.  You claim it is.  That's a very stupid claim.



Andylusion said:


> "I'm allowed to enforce my morality that killing millions of people is wrong!  But you can't enforce your morality on me, that doing society destroying drugs is wrong!"
> 
> Your position is not logical.  Period.  End.  You lose.



Wrong.  One involves millions of victims.  There are no victims in the other case.  It's simply a matter of you enforcing on others your petty prejudices about which substances are acceptable to consume. No principle of justice is involved, and that's all the law should be about: justice.



Andylusion said:


> By the way, you in this very thread, are imposing your views of morality on me, claiming that I am a Nazi.
> 
> That... in and of itself, makes you a Nazi according to your views that imposing your morality on others makes you a Nazi.
> 
> Double fail.  You lose.


I'm not "imposing" anything on you.  I'm simply noting what I observe.  You have the same moral code as the Nazis:  whatever government says is moral, ethical and just.  I can't imagine anything more Nazi-like than that.


----------



## Edward007

Any immigrants breaking the law deserves to be deported


----------



## Andylusion

bripat9643 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> No where in that quote did he say every law. But then you know that and are just whining cause your pet peeve is to whine about breaking laws you personally dont like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Did he mention any laws that it's OK to break?  No, he said explicitly that there are no laws that it's OK to break.
> 
> So you must be happy that good Nazis were following the law when they put Jews in gas ovens.
> 
> Anyone who claims that it's wrong to break any law on the books is a stupid goose-stepping Nazi douche bag.  Breaking laws is how this country got started, moron.  Breaking unjust laws is the highest form of patriotism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except internet tweebs do not get to decide what are unjust laws, just because you disagree with a law does nt make it unjust get back to me hen at least a third of the Country agrees and is will to rebel over it, you see that is what it took for the revolutionary war to start.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Logic is what determines whether a law is unjust.  If you claim it's immoral to disobey any law, then you assume that all laws are just.  You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Laws that have no victim are unjust.  That's the bottom line.  Herr Obergruppenfuhrer Andylusion believes there all no unjust laws.  He has no principle for separating just laws from the unjust.  That's what makes him a Nazi.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Logic?   There is nothing in logic that determines right from wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure there is.  Just because it's beyond your mental abilities, that doesn't mean there isn't any.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Further, in the context of the argument, you never made the claim the laws were unjust, only that you didn't like them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't like laws that are unjust - that means any law that doesn't have a victim,
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lastly, you are claiming that no one has the right to enforce their views on others.  So you can't "logically" claim to be against Nazis.  By your own statement, you are not allowed to try and impose your views on the Nazis, because that would make you a Nazi.
> 
> Sorry, but YOU can't have it both ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "My views" aren't at issue here.   What is at issue is whether it's somehow evil to break unjust laws.  You claim it is.  That's a very stupid claim.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I'm allowed to enforce my morality that killing millions of people is wrong!  But you can't enforce your morality on me, that doing society destroying drugs is wrong!"
> 
> Your position is not logical.  Period.  End.  You lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong.  One involves millions of victims.  There are no victims in the other case.  It's simply a matter of you enforcing on others your petty prejudices about which substances are acceptable to consume. No principle of justice is involved, and that's all the law should be about: justice.
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, you in this very thread, are imposing your views of morality on me, claiming that I am a Nazi.
> 
> That... in and of itself, makes you a Nazi according to your views that imposing your morality on others makes you a Nazi.
> 
> Double fail.  You lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not "imposing" anything on you.  I'm simply noting what I observe.  You have the same moral code as the Nazis:  whatever government says is moral, ethical and just.  I can't imagine anything more Nazi-like than that.
Click to expand...


You are imposing your views.   Your view is I'm a Nazi.  Your view is no one should have to follow any law they don't like.  That's are personal views of morality, that you are imposing on me.

Victim, or no victim doesn't matter.  It is a personal view.   Right and wrong is not determine by whether someone can claim they are a victim.

By your logic we shouldn't have any driving laws at all, whatsoever.  As long as no one is a victim, I can drive 100 MPH directly in front of the elementary school, and as long as I don't hit anyone's kid, you can't force your speed limits on me.

And when someone does get hit, and dies, well that's still not a need for speed limits... it was just one bad driver.   Just like all these devastated families I meet, it's not the pot smoking idiot, it's just a bad father, or mother or brother, sister, uncle.

You want to send your kids where they race 100 MPH down the roads?   After all, until they hit someone, no victims!  It would be Nazi of you to demand they go slow around children crossing the street.

But even if we accepted your bad premise, you are still a Nazi.  I'm a victim of your slanderous accusations of being a Nazi.   There!  You have a victim.  You are a horrible Nazi for victimizing me with your "observations".  You are no better than the Nazis themselves.

Everyone that swings the doubled sided blade of moral relativism, ends up cutting off their own head.


----------



## Edward007

She does a crime and deserves to be deported...any immigrants that do crimes should be run out of this country


----------



## ruly

Slade3200 said:


> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?



  The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.

  Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.


----------



## Slade3200

ruly said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.
> 
> Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.
Click to expand...

What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> ruly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.
> 
> Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
Click to expand...


I don't really understand this position.

If the husband or wife has papers, last I checked it was relatively easy to get the spouse legal.

I know several people right now, and they are married to non-US citizens, and they are getting them here legal.

So if it's legal.... then what is the problem?   If it's not legal, then explain how?   How are you unable to get your spouse here legally, when everyone else seems perfectly able to do this?


----------



## Slade3200

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.
> 
> Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really understand this position.
> 
> If the husband or wife has papers, last I checked it was relatively easy to get the spouse legal.
> 
> I know several people right now, and they are married to non-US citizens, and they are getting them here legal.
> 
> So if it's legal.... then what is the problem?   If it's not legal, then explain how?   How are you unable to get your spouse here legally, when everyone else seems perfectly able to do this?
Click to expand...

There is a lot about life you don't seem to understand. I think you need to spend less time in front of the computer and more time out In The world engaging with real life


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.
> 
> Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really understand this position.
> 
> If the husband or wife has papers, last I checked it was relatively easy to get the spouse legal.
> 
> I know several people right now, and they are married to non-US citizens, and they are getting them here legal.
> 
> So if it's legal.... then what is the problem?   If it's not legal, then explain how?   How are you unable to get your spouse here legally, when everyone else seems perfectly able to do this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a lot about life you don't seem to understand. I think you need to spend less time in front of the computer and more time out In The world engaging with real life
Click to expand...

I Know that millions of illegal Mexicans are why my 2 brother in law can not get a visa to this Country. So she did in fact cause harm, harm to every person trying to get here legally that is denied because of to many illegals.


----------



## Slade3200

RetiredGySgt said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.
> 
> Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really understand this position.
> 
> If the husband or wife has papers, last I checked it was relatively easy to get the spouse legal.
> 
> I know several people right now, and they are married to non-US citizens, and they are getting them here legal.
> 
> So if it's legal.... then what is the problem?   If it's not legal, then explain how?   How are you unable to get your spouse here legally, when everyone else seems perfectly able to do this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a lot about life you don't seem to understand. I think you need to spend less time in front of the computer and more time out In The world engaging with real life
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I Know that millions of illegal Mexicans are why my 2 brother in law can not get a visa to this Country. So she did in fact cause harm, harm to every person trying to get here legally that is denied because of to many illegals.
Click to expand...

I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?


----------



## P@triot

Slade3200 said:


> [What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?


The parents are completely irrelevant. Was the child born in the U.S., made a U.S. citizen through the legal process, or have some other legal status to be here (such as a Visa)? If no - there ass goes. Even if BOTH parents have "papers".

This is *not* difficult folks. Stop trying to find loopholes.


----------



## Andylusion

Slade3200 said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.
> 
> Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really understand this position.
> 
> If the husband or wife has papers, last I checked it was relatively easy to get the spouse legal.
> 
> I know several people right now, and they are married to non-US citizens, and they are getting them here legal.
> 
> So if it's legal.... then what is the problem?   If it's not legal, then explain how?   How are you unable to get your spouse here legally, when everyone else seems perfectly able to do this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is a lot about life you don't seem to understand. I think you need to spend less time in front of the computer and more time out In The world engaging with real life
Click to expand...


Ok, I can buy that.  Explain?  Are all the people I know, all the exception, and I have amazing abilities to only meet the exceptions in society?  

I have a renter right now.  He is applying for citizenship, and his wife is applying to come to the US right now.

That isn't 'normal'?   Because his relatives all came the same way.  So whats up?   You tell me.  I look forward to your enlightening post.


----------



## rhodescholar

Slade3200 said:


> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?



Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?


----------



## Slade3200

rhodescholar said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
Click to expand...

I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?


----------



## heil hitler

Slade3200 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
Click to expand...

Reagan did that...and we are where?


----------



## Slade3200

heil hitler said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
Click to expand...

We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"


----------



## heil hitler

Slade3200 said:


> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
Click to expand...

So you are throwing in the towel on as many as 30M (It has been 10 million for 25 years) illegal aliens? 
Sound like an American't to me.


----------



## Slade3200

heil hitler said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are throwing in the towel on as many as 30M (It has been 10 million for 25 years) illegal aliens?
> Sound like an American't to me.
Click to expand...

What do you mean throwing in the towel?


----------



## ruly

Andylusion said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.
> 
> She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.
> 
> I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem began with telling the thing it could stay to begin with.  I also hear a lot of crap about separating families by sending parents back to mexico.  But there's an easy solution to that.  Send their families back with them!  Problem solved!  They shouldn't have been in this country to spit out anchor babied to begin with.
> 
> Let's see the lawyers deal with this logic.  If you are in this country ILLEGALLY, anything that might come out of them should be considered to be illegal too.  It isn't where a person is that decides whether or not they are a criminal.  It is whether or not they are a criminal that decides whether or not they are a criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't really understand this position.
> 
> If the husband or wife has papers, last I checked it was relatively easy to get the spouse legal.
> 
> I know several people right now, and they are married to non-US citizens, and they are getting them here legal.
> 
> So if it's legal.... then what is the problem?   If it's not legal, then explain how?   How are you unable to get your spouse here legally, when everyone else seems perfectly able to do this?
Click to expand...


  Not that I would do it.  But I wonder what the going rate is for an American to have a sham marriage with a foreigner as an easy way to make them a citizen.


----------



## ruly

heil hitler said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are throwing in the towel on as many as 30M (It has been 10 million for 25 years) illegal aliens?
> Sound like an American't to me.
Click to expand...


  Given your post about throwing in the towel and your username, where are you from.  Oppositlland?


----------



## heil hitler

ruly said:


> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> 
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are throwing in the towel on as many as 30M (It has been 10 million for 25 years) illegal aliens?
> Sound like an American't to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Given your post about throwing in the towel and your username, where are you from.  Oppositlland?
Click to expand...

Not an argument.


----------



## Tresha91203

Slade3200 said:


> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
Click to expand...


No. Reagan fell for the con, the lie that the border will be secured as part of this process.  He did his part and would have approved and signed anything put on his desk to secure it.  We don't need to fall for that lie again.  If securing the border is part of this process, it can be part 1 this time.


----------



## Slade3200

Tresha91203 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Reagan fell for the con, the lie that the border will be secured as part of this process.  He did his part and would have approved and signed anything put on his desk to secure it.  We don't need to fall for that lie again.  If securing the border is part of this process, it can be part 1 this time.
Click to expand...

I think that's a smart approach. Don't think the wall is the right solution but border security is a fine first step. What exactly was the lie that Reagan fell for again? Which border security efforts was he assuming would seal it up that never happened?


----------



## heil hitler

Tresha91203 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, what is the process the government uses to count the number of illegals in this country then deduct that from the number of legal visas they write to allow legal immigrants into our country? This is a sincere question, can you provide a link that explains how that process works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Reagan fell for the con, the lie that the border will be secured as part of this process.  He did his part and would have approved and signed anything put on his desk to secure it.  We don't need to fall for that lie again.  If securing the border is part of this process, it can be part 1 this time.
Click to expand...


One of the primary duties as outlined in the Constitution is for the federal government to secure the borders. 
Whether Reagan was lied to, duped, suffered from dementia or any other EXCUSE we have been down this candy assed, lazy road before.
30M illegals later we are right back here with many WANTING the same shit, before a single brick has been laid.
I have a novel idea...why dont we focus on the SECURITY portion as outlined in our Constitution before we begin to talk about amnesty.
Ya know...horse...cart.


----------



## Tresha91203

Slade3200 said:


> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not going back through 77 pages of this thread to determine your position; do you accept the presence / non-deportation of all illegals in the US?
> 
> 
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Reagan fell for the con, the lie that the border will be secured as part of this process.  He did his part and would have approved and signed anything put on his desk to secure it.  We don't need to fall for that lie again.  If securing the border is part of this process, it can be part 1 this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that's a smart approach. Don't think the wall is the right solution but border security is a fine first step. What exactly was the lie that Reagan fell for again? Which border security efforts was he assuming would seal it up that never happened?
Click to expand...


He didn't veto amnesty on the promise that the "immigration reform" congress was working on would include securing the border.  The President doesn't write laws.  Once the lawmakers (both sides) got what they wanted (amnesty), they saw no need to bother with securing the border.


----------



## heil hitler

Tresha91203 said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heil hitler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we should push our policies towards legal immigration and do our best to reduce visa over stays and illegal crossings. I think given the magnitude of the problem with 10+ million undocumented living in the US some for decades we need to deal with that problem in a smarter way than simply trying to deport them all. So a pathway to get them to register and live here with legal staus and penalties is in order. This is a much larger discussion though and I dont want to repeat my ideas as I've stated some of them several times. What does that have to do with the question in my post that you responded to?
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan did that...and we are where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Reagan fell for the con, the lie that the border will be secured as part of this process.  He did his part and would have approved and signed anything put on his desk to secure it.  We don't need to fall for that lie again.  If securing the border is part of this process, it can be part 1 this time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that's a smart approach. Don't think the wall is the right solution but border security is a fine first step. What exactly was the lie that Reagan fell for again? Which border security efforts was he assuming would seal it up that never happened?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He didn't veto amnesty on the promise that the "immigration reform" congress was working on would include securing the border.  The President doesn't write laws.  Once the lawmakers (both sides) got what they wanted (amnesty), they saw no need to bother with securing the border.
Click to expand...


Yet you trust congress to secure them this time...prior to amnesty? Do you actually expect them to do anything? 
Immigration was not even in the building where the docket was located for important issues one year ago. Now we should expect Congress to agree to support the Constitution?
Come now...come on. Fool me once...


----------



## Tresha91203

I think you have me confused with someone else.  I am saying STEP 1 is secure the border. After the last lie, no amnesty discussions at all IMO until the border is secure.  Until then, we aren't even done with the last amnesty!


----------



## heil hitler

Tresha91203 said:


> I think you have me confused with someone else.  I am saying STEP 1 is secure the border. After the last lie, no amnesty discussions at all IMO until the border is secure.  Until then, we aren't even done with the last amnesty!


I apologize maam, I very well may.


----------



## MaryL

Slade3200 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad people think they can drag their kids into this as an excuse to violate immigration laws and think we are fooled. Dreamers or anchor babies, Immigrants or illegal aliens. Euphemisms. Nobody is above the laws. Not even Mexicans. That might be a shocker. But it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> You saw the story, for 18 years she checked in with ICE and was told she could stay. Her mother is a citizen, her husband is a citizen, her four kids are citizens. She can't get papers because of what she did 20 years ago.  Does this really sound right to you?
Click to expand...

She was caught sneaking in with a fake visa. It's too bad ICE was so lackadaisical back then, she shouldn't  gotten in to begin with, let alone given all this leeway. This case  is a perfect example  of the MESS immigration enforcement has become. Over the last  2 decades Americans have been sending mixed messages to our government about illegal aliens. I hope all that ambiguity is being clarified NOW. Don't cut deals and otherwise undercut immigration law enforcement. Sorry, but life isn't fair, and  WE humans should  be more companionate. But  after 12 million+  illegals and all their gambits, ruses and lies, that tends to  make me a little hard-hearted and cynical. Sorry.


----------



## rhodescholar

Slade3200 said:


> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"



But clearly no further along from a standpoint of the political position of the national democraptic party and its partner in this atrocity, the corporate wing of the republican party, both of whom seek to import as many illegals as possible.

First off, there are well over 35 MM illegals, and anything less than mass deportations with massive fines/penalties for employers will act as a message to the rest of the impoverished on this planet - just like after the 1986 disaster - that the doors are closed, unless you can sneak in and then you are good to go.

I do not want illegals to think FOR A NANOSECOND that they are safe in the US, or that they or their families will EVER achieve legal status.  They must be deported, and the anchor baby/14th amendment mis-reading crap must be ended.

You claim there is better law enforcement?  All I see are the scumbag local fucking officials ordering their police NOT to cooperate with federal agencies like ICE.


----------



## rhodescholar

MaryL said:


> She was caught sneaking in with a fake visa. It's too bad ICE was so lackadaisical back then, she shouldn't  gotten in to begin with, let alone given all this leeway. This case  is a perfect example  of the MESS immigration enforcement has become. Over the last  2 decades Americans have been sending mixed messages to our government about illegal aliens. I hope all that ambiguity is being clarified NOW. Don't cut deals and otherwise undercut immigration law enforcement. Sorry, but life isn't fair, and  WE humans should  be more companionate. But  after 12 million+  illegals and all their gambits, ruses and lies, that tends to  make me a little hard-hearted and cynical. Sorry.



Most of the sob stories the illegals are spewing to the media and immigration officials/judges are total fucking garbage - they have been coached - who the fuck runs out of a war zone and leaves their kids behind?  They bypass 40 other central/south american countries to get to the hated "gringo" US who has better salaries, or in other cases, welfare for those pumping babies out who don't want to work.  That might be amongst the most infuriating things about this whole fucking sham; they hate the US like the bastard muslims do - but can't get here fast enough to siphon money/jobs off of the country.


----------



## Pete7469

MaryL said:


> She was caught sneaking in with a fake visa. It's too bad ICE was so lackadaisical back then, she shouldn't  gotten in to begin with, let alone given all this leeway. This case  is a perfect example  of the MESS immigration enforcement has become. Over the last  2 decades Americans have been sending mixed messages to our government about illegal aliens. I hope all that ambiguity is being clarified NOW. Don't cut deals and otherwise undercut immigration law enforcement. Sorry, but life isn't fair, and  WE humans should  be more companionate. But  after 12 million+  illegals and all their gambits, ruses and lies, that tends to  make me a little hard-hearted and cynical. Sorry.



Research into "green energy" repatriation systems is underway.


----------



## koshergrl

Here's another sob story about a poor illegal who didn't get deported....

He managed to get enrolled in ninth grade,where he and a buddy raped a 14 y.o. girl.

Two Illegal Aliens Charged With Raping 14-Year-Old Girl At a Maryland High School

Poor, poor illegals! My heart breaks! I bet those *kids* have kids of their own! What will THEY do when their daddies are deported? Will the rest of the gang pitch in and raise them?


----------



## Pete7469

rhodescholar said:


> Most of the sob stories the illegals are spewing to the media and immigration officials/judges are total fucking garbage - they have been coached - who the fuck runs out of a war zone and leaves their kids behind?  They bypass 40 other central/south american countries to get to the hated "gringo" US who has better salaries, or in other cases, welfare for those pumping babies out who don't want to work.  That might be amongst the most infuriating things about this whole fucking sham; they hate the US like the bastard muslims do - but can't get here fast enough to siphon money/jobs off of the country.



BINGO!!!

I'll even accept the argument "most of them want to work for money", and some of them work hard. I see it regularly.

Even so, if their attitude is that they're being exploited because they've been indoctrinated with leftist psycobabble and have no interest in assimilation then fuck 'em. Every other ethnic group from anywhere in the world were loyal to their host country. People from the same places who immigrate legally are proud of becoming Americans. The illegals do not respect our laws from the get go. They do not respect our culture, they do not care about being Americans.

Throw in the % of them who are here to leech and as far as I'm concerned every illegal needs to be thrown out. They can't be trusted.


----------



## Slade3200

rhodescholar said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are 30 years in the future with much better technology, tracking, and law enforcement capabilities. Reagan did half the job but was unable to effectively secure the "border"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But clearly no further along from a standpoint of the political position of the national democraptic party and its partner in this atrocity, the corporate wing of the republican party, both of whom seek to import as many illegals as possible.
> 
> First off, there are well over 35 MM illegals, and anything less than mass deportations with massive fines/penalties for employers will act as a message to the rest of the impoverished on this planet - just like after the 1986 disaster - that the doors are closed, unless you can sneak in and then you are good to go.
> 
> I do not want illegals to think FOR A NANOSECOND that they are safe in the US, or that they or their families will EVER achieve legal status.  They must be deported, and the anchor baby/14th amendment mis-reading crap must be ended.
> 
> You claim there is better law enforcement?  All I see are the scumbag local fucking officials ordering their police NOT to cooperate with federal agencies like ICE.
Click to expand...

There is a reason why your short sighted ideas have never been implemented nor will they ever be implemented. You can scream from the rooftops and pout all day but the direction we go with this issue is not going to lead to trying to deport 30 million people. To think that is even possible is ignorant and nieve


----------



## MaryL

koshergrl said:


> Here's another sob story about a poor illegal who didn't get deported....
> 
> He managed to get enrolled in ninth grade,where he and a buddy raped a 14 y.o. girl.
> 
> Two Illegal Aliens Charged With Raping 14-Year-Old Girl At a Maryland High School
> 
> Poor, poor illegals! My heart breaks! I bet those *kids* have kids of their own! What will THEY do when their daddies are deported? Will the rest of the gang pitch in and raise them?


There's a constant back- and- forth game  going on here. We don't want illegals because they hurt  us, OR, Illegals are IMMIGRANTS being hurt by unfair laws, take your pick. 
  And all their (Mexicans) bitching and whining about how immigration law is UNFAIR.  How? They apply to all people from all nations.  But when Americans come back with our concerns and issues,  it's minimized. WE are "WHINING , BITCHING and  LOSERS ". And then they get out the big guns; the  "race" card comes out. If people want respect here on this issue, lay off the hype and get real. All illegals have to do, *ALL THEY EVER HAD TO DO*, is immigrate legally. That is IT. No lies, no tricks, no games.


----------



## Slade3200

MaryL said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another sob story about a poor illegal who didn't get deported....
> 
> He managed to get enrolled in ninth grade,where he and a buddy raped a 14 y.o. girl.
> 
> Two Illegal Aliens Charged With Raping 14-Year-Old Girl At a Maryland High School
> 
> Poor, poor illegals! My heart breaks! I bet those *kids* have kids of their own! What will THEY do when their daddies are deported? Will the rest of the gang pitch in and raise them?
> 
> 
> 
> There's a constant back- and- forth game  going on here. We don't want illegals because they hurt  us, OR, Illegals are IMMIGRANTS being hurt by unfair laws, take your pick.
> And all their (Mexicans) bitching and whining about how immigration law is UNFAIR.  How? They apply to all people from all nations.  But when Americans come back with our concerns and issues,  it's minimized. WE are "WHINING , BITCHING and  LOSERS ". And then they get out the big guns; the  "race" card comes out. If people want respect here on this issue, lay off the hype and get real. All illegals have to do, *ALL THEY EVER HAD TO DO*, is immigrate legally. That is IT. No lies, no tricks, no games.
Click to expand...

Yes agreed, we have a legal process which should have been followed and should followed in the future. Great now that we have that figured out we can talk about the real problem that exists in our country of having 10+ million people who live here with out documentation. Many have for decades. It is just not realistic to try and deport all of them. It is logistically impossible. So my question to you is, can you propose a realistic solution to the problem that would actually have a positive effect on our nation?


----------



## mudwhistle

jillian said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 years too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she's more valuable than your white trash self.
> 
> 
> but then again, it would take a lowlife to be threatened by someone because they're an immigrant.
Click to expand...

Not an immigrant. A criminal illegal. My ancestors were immigrants. My wife's Grandfather was a slave.


----------



## rhodescholar

Slade3200 said:


> There is a reason why your short sighted ideas have never been implemented nor will they ever be implemented. You can scream from the rooftops and pout all day but the direction we go with this issue is not going to lead to trying to deport 30 million people. To think that is even possible is ignorant and nieve



60 MM people who voted for Trump disagree with you.  And I'll tell you something sonny boy, you don't start deporting those fucking illegals, and people like me - and there's a SHITLOAD of us - are not going to keep paying our taxes.  You understand, enough business owners like me do so, and the government will vanish.  I am NO LONGER willing to pay for the support of illegals in this country, I have FUCKING had it.  I have been steadily reducing my estimated taxes paid, and will continue to do so, using every trick in the book until the government is starved of any financing.  Multiply that times the thousands of others in my associations who have all voted to do the same, and its fucking armageddon for the US treasury.


----------



## Rambunctious

Slade3200 said:


> I'll send you a tough guy award


And you get the dumb guy award....


----------



## rhodescholar

MaryL said:


> There's a constant back- and- forth game  going on here. We don't want illegals because they hurt  us, OR, Illegals are IMMIGRANTS being hurt by unfair laws, take your pick. And all their (Mexicans) bitching and whining about how immigration law is UNFAIR.  How? They apply to all people from all nations.  But when Americans come back with our concerns and issues,  it's minimized. WE are "WHINING , BITCHING and  LOSERS ". And then they get out the big guns; the  "race" card comes out. If people want respect here on this issue, lay off the hype and get real. All illegals have to do, *ALL THEY EVER HAD TO DO*, is immigrate legally. That is IT. No lies, no tricks, no games.



Why do you think the left and the so-called "immigration activists" play these games, and use the "racist"/deflective BS labels?  Because they know on the facts, they have NO FUCKING ARGUMENT.


----------



## Slade3200

rhodescholar said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a reason why your short sighted ideas have never been implemented nor will they ever be implemented. You can scream from the rooftops and pout all day but the direction we go with this issue is not going to lead to trying to deport 30 million people. To think that is even possible is ignorant and nieve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 60 MM people who voted for Trump disagree with you.  And I'll tell you something sonny boy, you don't start deporting those fucking illegals, and people like me - and there's a SHITLOAD of us - are not going to keep paying our taxes.  You understand, enough business owners like me do so, and the government will vanish.  I am NO LONGER willing to pay for the support of illegals in this country, I have FUCKING had it.  I have been steadily reducing my estimated taxes paid, and will continue to do so, using every trick in the book until the government is starved of any financing.  Multiply that times the thousands of others in my associations who have all voted to do the same, and its fucking armageddon for the US treasury.
Click to expand...

It pretty funny that you think 60 million people agree with Trumps immigration policy.  I've seen many story's on people who completely disagree with Trumps stupid wall idea and his immigration stance in general, but they voted for him because they thought he would be better for economic growth. Plenty of people want to see lower taxes, less regulation, smaller government... plenty of people did not trust or like Hillary Clinton... There are so many reasons that factor into a vote, for you to use all of Trumps voters to justify your immigration stance is a joke. If we were using that as criteria then I could make the argument that more people voted against Trumps policies than for them... That would put you in the minority.


----------



## Slade3200

Rambunctious said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll send you a tough guy award
> 
> 
> 
> And you get the dumb guy award....
Click to expand...

Good one!


----------



## MaryL

rhodescholar said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's a constant back- and- forth game  going on here. We don't want illegals because they hurt  us, OR, Illegals are IMMIGRANTS being hurt by unfair laws, take your pick. And all their (Mexicans) bitching and whining about how immigration law is UNFAIR.  How? They apply to all people from all nations.  But when Americans come back with our concerns and issues,  it's minimized. WE are "WHINING , BITCHING and  LOSERS ". And then they get out the big guns; the  "race" card comes out. If people want respect here on this issue, lay off the hype and get real. All illegals have to do, *ALL THEY EVER HAD TO DO*, is immigrate legally. That is IT. No lies, no tricks, no games.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think the left and the so-called "immigration activists" play these games, and use the "racist"/deflective BS labels?  Because they know on the facts, they have NO FUCKING ARGUMENT.
Click to expand...

I see the millions of illegals whining, bitching and forcing  their way into our culture, people forget illegal aliens are a recent issue. I NEVER heard Spanish here  until 20 years ago.  before then, all migrants were expected to learn ENGLISH and acclimate to the culture. NOW, it's the other way' round. Americans have to acclimate to THEM, it's "diversity". I totally reject that paradigm.  We always had diversity, we just expected commonality called acclimation . Now? It's total and utter chaos disguised as political correctness.


----------



## Unkotare

Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.

There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.

Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.





Unkotare said:


> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.


Yep. But All immigrants from all OTHER countries don't sneak here in illegally and pretend to be victims of "unfair" immigration laws like  Mexicans  have. I never heard Spanish spoken here until early 90's, don't kid yourself. I never hear French, Portuguese or any other language. Just Spanish speakers.  Anyone else notice that? So much for DIVERSITY...


----------



## Pete7469

Slade3200 said:


> Yes agreed, we have a legal process which should have been followed and should followed in the future. Great now that we have that figured out we can talk about the real problem that exists in our country of having 10+ million people who live here with out documentation. Many have for decades. It is just not realistic to try and deport all of them. It is logistically impossible. So my question to you is, can you propose a realistic solution to the problem that would actually have a positive effect on our nation?



If existence in the country was more difficult illegally, people will simply leave. However, with a secure border everyone can eventually be picked up and thrown out. They make it worse for themselves by staying and getting more deeply rooted. Once laws are fully enforced, like for instance you'll have to have a legit SS#, and proof of citizenship in order to maintain a bank account, get a loan, get a job, get a license... 

Enforce the law!!!

If they leave voluntarily and apply properly we can forgive them. If they're petulant children they need to become projectiles.


----------



## Markle

Slade3200 said:


> I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole



Actually, you are because you refuse to face facts.  Typical of far left Progressives.


----------



## MaryL

This is really about  pandering to Mexican illegals. I love Mexican culture. Lets get that straight. I never had an issue with legal  immigration, or even illegals from Mexico,  until it became a thorn in my paw. I even went to a local INS office. During the Regan administration. That long ago. Yes, That long ago.  I met the enemy then. Those  Conservatives republicans that put Regan in office wanted lax immigration laws, that's what the INS boys in black told me. It's "good for American business".  Well,  MAJOR Paradigm shift here.


----------



## Slade3200

Markle said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call them undocumented instead of illegal or alien because they are humans and I'm not an asshole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you are because you refuse to face facts.  Typical of far left Progressives.
Click to expand...

Which facts am I not facing?  Try a little harder to explain yourself when your attempting to make points, it will save us all from needless back and forth.


----------



## Markle

Slade3200 said:


> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?



Sucks to be them, doesn't it?


----------



## Old Yeller

MaryL said:


> This is really about  pandering to Mexican illegals. I love Mexican culture. Lets get that straight. I never had an issue with legal  immigration, or even illegals from Mexico,  until it became a thorn in my paw. I even went to a local INS office. During the Regan administration. That long ago. Yes, That long ago.  I met the enemy then. Those  Conservatives republicans that put Regan in office wanted lax immigration laws, that's what the INS boys in black told me. It's "good for American business".  Well,  MAJOR Paradigm shift here.




The story I have been hearing is OTM "other than Mexican"  from further south.  Mexico lets them pass thru.  Mexico has run out of bad ones to force up here, I suppose.  note:  I don't hear much English spoken at Wal-Mart these days.


----------



## Markle

mudwhistle said:


> My wife's Grandfather was a slave.



What country?


----------



## MaryL

Markle said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sucks to be them, doesn't it?
Click to expand...




Unkotare said:


> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.


Not seeing that, kiddo. 1997 maybe, now? I live  a thousand miles from Mexico. Mexican culture and Spanish  language  this and that is becoming NORMAL.In southern California, Arizona or Texas,  maybe. But in the Midwest? I never ever heard Mexican before  mid  80's . I never liked how illegals corrupt neighborhoods, cultures or how our society pretends this is NORMAL.


----------



## rhodescholar

Slade3200 said:


> It pretty funny that you think 60 million people agree with Trumps immigration policy.  I've seen many story's on people who completely disagree with Trumps stupid wall idea and his immigration stance in general, but they voted for him because they thought he would be better for economic growth.



When even the lunatic idiots who read the POS NYT every day writes one fierce comment after another supporting the mass deportation of illegals, that pretty much settles it for me.  Even the liberals I know and speak with in person are fervently against legalizing the illegals because it will simply attract millions more who think they can sneak through.  Either a country is sovereign with functional borders, or is not.



> Plenty of people want to see lower taxes, less regulation, smaller government... plenty of people did not trust or like Hillary Clinton... There are so many reasons that factor into a vote, for you to use all of Trumps voters to justify your immigration stance is a joke. If we were using that as criteria then I could make the argument that more people voted against Trumps policies than for them... That would put you in the minority.



It isn't the issue of seeking lower taxes; it is that what we are paying are going to a) support poor people from other countries who we did not agree to do so b) line the pockets of corporates and other wealthy who benefit from paying illegals shit wages while fucking over their fellow americans.

I can GUARANTEE you, that if I sat down with 100 people on the fence about deporting illegals, in 10 minutes I would have 85% or more of them convinced to support the mass deportation of them once they were made aware of how much of their taxes were being pissed away on illegals.

One other point - if the US stopped the welfare/benefits for illegals, ceased granting citizenship to anchor babies and the requisite welfare their families receive, and massively fined/imprisioned business owners caught hiring them - then not a single one would need to be deported., because each and every last one of them would leave on their own in a few months.

With no welfare and no jobs, they'd leave, and that right soon.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep. But All immigrants from all OTHER countries don't sneak here in illegally and pretend to be victims of "unfair" immigration laws like  Mexicans  have. I never heard Spanish spoken here until early 90's, don't kid yourself. I never hear French, Portuguese or any other language. Just Spanish speakers.  Anyone else notice that? So much for DIVERSITY...
Click to expand...







Funny that some people think every illegal alien is "Mexican," and that the little patch of sky they can see from down in their well of ignorance is the entire world. 



I heard Spanish, French, Portuguese and at least 6 other languages today alone. Some wells are smaller than others. 




The small-minded bigotry of the frightened and ignorant is sad and un-American.


----------



## Unkotare

rhodescholar said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It pretty funny that you think 60 million people agree with Trumps immigration policy.  I've seen many story's on people who completely disagree with Trumps stupid wall idea and his immigration stance in general, but they voted for him because they thought he would be better for economic growth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When even the lunatic idiots who read the POS NYT every day writes one fierce comment after another supporting the mass deportation of illegals, that pretty much settles it for me.  Even the liberals I know and speak with in person are fervently against legalizing the illegals because it will simply attract millions more who think they can sneak through.  Either a country is sovereign with functional borders, or is not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty of people want to see lower taxes, less regulation, smaller government... plenty of people did not trust or like Hillary Clinton... There are so many reasons that factor into a vote, for you to use all of Trumps voters to justify your immigration stance is a joke. If we were using that as criteria then I could make the argument that more people voted against Trumps policies than for them... That would put you in the minority.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It isn't the issue of seeking lower taxes; it is that what we are paying are going to a) support poor people from other countries who we did not agree to do so b) line the pockets of corporates and other wealthy who benefit from paying illegals shit wages while fucking over their fellow americans.
> 
> I can GUARANTEE you, that if I sat down with 100 people on the fence about deporting illegals, in 10 minutes I would have 85% or more of them convinced to support the mass deportation of them once they were made aware of how much of their taxes were being pissed away on illegals.
> 
> One other point - if the US stopped the welfare/benefits for illegals, ceased granting citizenship to anchor babies and the requisite welfare their families receive, and massively fined/imprisioned business owners caught hiring them - then not a single one would need to be deported., because each and every last one of them would leave on their own in a few months.
> 
> With no welfare and no jobs, they'd leave, and that right soon.
Click to expand...









You were "granted" citizenship for nothing more than being born here too.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sucks to be them, doesn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not seeing that, kiddo. 1997 maybe, now? ....
Click to expand...




Now


----------



## rhodescholar

My friends/family is right, I need to stop reading certain news outlets (in this case, propaganda), either my head is going to explode or I am going to fucking kill a few million people...

Mexico remittances: I send money home to Mexico to support family

"On Saturday, Mexico's finance minister, Jose Antonio Meade, defended the free flow of remittances at the G20 summit in Germany, arguing they're a critical component for economic growth in developing countries."

So its the fucking responsibility of the middle class of the US to support mexico's fucking economy?  I am going to punch the next fucker who tells me the US needs to accept the illegals, this is getting fucking unbearable.  Maybe america should just let all the mexicans live in their homes rent free, and feed them too?  

Is there anyone south of the border who has ANY fucking intelligence, that is able to think for themselves and see that being a fucking leech/parasite is not an attractive/appealing position to be in?  Do these people have ANY pride?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigration of every kind is anything but new to America.
> 
> There have been native Spanish speakers among us since before the Republic.
> 
> Immigrants today learn English and assimilate just as those before them did. The melting pot is still working just fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep. But All immigrants from all OTHER countries don't sneak here in illegally and pretend to be victims of "unfair" immigration laws like  Mexicans  have. I never heard Spanish spoken here until early 90's, don't kid yourself. I never hear French, Portuguese or any other language. Just Spanish speakers.  Anyone else notice that? So much for DIVERSITY...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny that some people think every illegal alien is "Mexican," and that the little patch of sky they can see from down in their well of ignorance is the entire world.
> 
> 
> 
> I heard Spanish, French, Portuguese and at least 6 other languages today alone. Some wells are smaller than others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The small-minded bigotry of the frightened and ignorant is sad and un-American.
Click to expand...

Yeah, right. We have been over this already,  yours is yet another  trite response  #1racism. Bullshit. Illegals get hurt, I don't hurt them. Mexican illegals hurt US, me ...we are  being to point specific? But we are bitching?  But they are Victims? Racism! Hate! No, give it up, already. I like Mexicans, not liars and frauds.


----------



## Slade3200

Markle said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the father has papers and the mother doesn't?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sucks to be them, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Try again at a real answer, its like working with a 5 year old... Are you saying that you don't think that American citizens should be able to


rhodescholar said:


> My friends/family is right, I need to stop reading certain news outlets (in this case, propaganda), either my head is going to explode or I am going to fucking kill a few million people...
> 
> Mexico remittances: I send money home to Mexico to support family
> 
> "On Saturday, Mexico's finance minister, Jose Antonio Meade, defended the free flow of remittances at the G20 summit in Germany, arguing they're a critical component for economic growth in developing countries."
> 
> So its the fucking responsibility of the middle class of the US to support mexico's fucking economy?  I am going to punch the next fucker who tells me the US needs to accept the illegals, this is getting fucking unbearable.  Maybe america should just let all the mexicans live in their homes rent free, and feed them too?
> 
> Is there anyone south of the border who has ANY fucking intelligence, that is able to think for themselves and see that being a fucking leech/parasite is not an attractive/appealing position to be in?  Do these people have ANY pride?


Scared of a little competition are ya? Land of the free bitch... What are you going to want to do next, ban Americans from traveling out of the country? That is after all supporting the economies of other nations. Should Uncle Sam control that too?


----------



## MaryL

Unokatre is a liberal white boy living in LA. Perhaps you better get outside of that sphere of liberal groupthink you're in NOW.Take a chill pill, home boy. We are aren't rich white elitists living in a bubble.  Mexicans weren't  ever issue, people grew up and out of their moms house too.


----------



## rhodescholar

Slade3200 said:


> Scared of a little competition are ya? Land of the free bitch...



Lord you are a fucking idiot.  These pieces of shit are collecting fucking welfare and free benefits FROM ME because they cannot build a real economy and country - and you're asking if WE are afraid of competition?  Go away you fucking idiot asshole, you're a worthless trolling turd.


----------



## Unkotare

rhodescholar said:


> ...  I am going to punch the next fucker who tells me ...




Yeah, yeah...you're not going to punch anyone.


----------



## Slade3200

rhodescholar said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scared of a little competition are ya? Land of the free bitch...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lord you are a fucking idiot.  These pieces of shit are collecting fucking welfare and free benefits FROM ME because they cannot build a real economy and country - and you're asking if WE are afraid of competition?  Go away you fucking idiot asshole, you're a worthless trolling turd.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unokatre is a liberal white boy living in LA.....




Some people love to guess but are always ridiculously wrong.


----------



## rhodescholar

MaryL said:


> Unokatre is a liberal white boy living in LA. Perhaps you better get outside of that sphere of liberal groupthink you're in NOW.Take a chill pill, home boy. We are aren't rich white elitists living in a bubble.  Mexicans weren't  ever issue, people grew up and out of their moms house too.



I put that turd on ignore years ago, suggest you do the same.  Life's too short to spend time with the highly unintelligent, you want to spend it with smart, interesting people with something of value to offer.


----------



## rhodescholar

Slade3200 said:


> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?



Go search my posts over the past week.  Until you have something of value to offer, your posts will be bypassed.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  I am going to punch the next fucker who tells me ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah...you're not going to punch anyone.
Click to expand...

SO karayte boi is a major sumo wrestler? Give it up, is it past your bed time?


Unkotare said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  I am going to punch the next fucker who tells me ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah...you're not going to punch anyone.
Click to expand...

Neither are you, emasculating that or what? I LOVE Mexicans, Mexican culture. Not illegal alien Mexicans. No monopoly get out of jail free card for them anymore, sorry.


----------



## Slade3200

rhodescholar said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go search my posts over the past week.  Until you have something of value to offer, your posts will be bypassed.
Click to expand...

Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  I am going to punch the next fucker who tells me ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah...you're not going to punch anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> SO karayte boi is a major sumo wrestler? Give it up, is it past your bed time?....
Click to expand...



And, as expected, the weak-minded lose their shit entirely.


----------



## MaryL

rhodescholar said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unokatre is a liberal white boy living in LA. Perhaps you better get outside of that sphere of liberal groupthink you're in NOW.Take a chill pill, home boy. We are aren't rich white elitists living in a bubble.  Mexicans weren't  ever issue, people grew up and out of their moms house too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put that turd on ignore years ago, suggest you do the same.  Life's too short to spend time with the highly unintelligent, you want to spend it with smart, interesting people with something of value to offer.
Click to expand...

OK, Unko is a troll, I gathered that. He's a well intentioned  troll. I have a fondness for the child,  he  will learn and move on, and  in 20 years, wisdom will come. Now? I have to LIVE with worse assholes.


----------



## Unkotare

Strange that some would rather guess ridiculously wrong than simply ask a question. Oh well.


----------



## rhodescholar

Slade3200 said:


> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.



Start here, fool:

The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)


----------



## koshergrl

Slade3200 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go search my posts over the past week.  Until you have something of value to offer, your posts will be bypassed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.
Click to expand...

We get sick of having tonprove, over and over,.what.is.common knowledge. It's what you and pigs like you do to establish a false narrative, and to establish an alternate reality. The Cost of Welfare Use  By Immigrant and Native Households


----------



## Slade3200

rhodescholar said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Start here, fool:
> 
> The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)
Click to expand...

Thanks fool


----------



## Slade3200

koshergrl said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go search my posts over the past week.  Until you have something of value to offer, your posts will be bypassed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We get sick of having tonprove, over and over,.what.is.common knowledge. It's what you and pigs like you do to establish a false narrative, and to establish an alternate reality. The Cost of Welfare Use  By Immigrant and Native Households
Click to expand...

What's the false narrative that I'm trying to establish? Talk to me specifically I'm sick of you dipshits who lump everybody into categories. So what exactly is it the agenda that you think I'm pushing?


----------



## koshergrl

Slade3200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go search my posts over the past week.  Until you have something of value to offer, your posts will be bypassed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We get sick of having tonprove, over and over,.what.is.common knowledge. It's what you and pigs like you do to establish a false narrative, and to establish an alternate reality. The Cost of Welfare Use  By Immigrant and Native Households
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the false narrative that I'm trying to establish? Talk to me specifically I'm sick of you dipshits who lump everybody into categories. So what exactly is it the agenda that you think I'm pushing?
Click to expand...


Well to begin with, you're lying when you pretend not to believe that illegals are a financial burden for the rest of us. When you demand "proof" of it, and we get disgusted and refuse to provide it over and over and over again, you will seize on that and screech "you can't prove it!"

Dipshit. Onto ignore you go. Again. I don't know how you got off of it, I've had you on ignore forever. Your'e a waste of time, space and skin. You're derailing your own thread right now with this garbage. The thread OP itself is  false narrative and garbage.  Adios.


----------



## Slade3200

koshergrl said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go search my posts over the past week.  Until you have something of value to offer, your posts will be bypassed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We get sick of having tonprove, over and over,.what.is.common knowledge. It's what you and pigs like you do to establish a false narrative, and to establish an alternate reality. The Cost of Welfare Use  By Immigrant and Native Households
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the false narrative that I'm trying to establish? Talk to me specifically I'm sick of you dipshits who lump everybody into categories. So what exactly is it the agenda that you think I'm pushing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well to begin with, you're lying when you pretend not to believe that illegals are a financial burden for the rest of us. When you demand "proof" of it, and we get disgusted and refuse to provide it over and over and over again, you will seize on that and screech "you can't prove it!"
> 
> Dipshit. Onto ignore you go. Again. I don't know how you got off of it, I've had you on ignore forever. Your'e a waste of time, space and skin. You're derailing your own thread right now with this garbage. The thread OP itself is  false narrative and garbage.  Adios.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna stop you at that first disgustingly dishonest paragraph of yours. I never made any such claims that there were no financial burdens on tax payers. I asked a question and was looking for sources. Post my quote where I said what you claim or STFU.


----------



## koshergrl

Slade3200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go search my posts over the past week.  Until you have something of value to offer, your posts will be bypassed.
> 
> 
> 
> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We get sick of having tonprove, over and over,.what.is.common knowledge. It's what you and pigs like you do to establish a false narrative, and to establish an alternate reality. The Cost of Welfare Use  By Immigrant and Native Households
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the false narrative that I'm trying to establish? Talk to me specifically I'm sick of you dipshits who lump everybody into categories. So what exactly is it the agenda that you think I'm pushing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well to begin with, you're lying when you pretend not to believe that illegals are a financial burden for the rest of us. When you demand "proof" of it, and we get disgusted and refuse to provide it over and over and over again, you will seize on that and screech "you can't prove it!"
> 
> Dipshit. Onto ignore you go. Again. I don't know how you got off of it, I've had you on ignore forever. Your'e a waste of time, space and skin. You're derailing your own thread right now with this garbage. The thread OP itself is  false narrative and garbage.  Adios.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm gonna stop you at that first disgustingly dishonest paragraph of yours. I never made any such claims that there were no financial burdens on tax payers. I asked a question and was looking for sources. Post my quote where I said what you claim or STFU.
Click to expand...


You implied, by your demand of a *link*, that you didn't believe it. Instead of just addressing the argument, you instead went full stupid, so you didn't have to aua

The disingenuous left.


Slade3200 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scared of a little competition are ya? Land of the free bitch...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lord you are a fucking idiot.  These pieces of shit are collecting fucking welfare and free benefits FROM ME because they cannot build a real economy and country - and you're asking if WE are afraid of competition?  Go away you fucking idiot asshole, you're a worthless trolling turd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
Click to expand...

disingenuous. OP knows such things are impossible to track,. Thus he avoids addressing the issue.


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## Slade3200

koshergrl said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its quite amusing to hear you call me and others stupid while boasting about your intelligence then when asked for a simple link to back up the claims you are making you respond with the above. Ok, buddy, i'll get right on that and sift through thousands of pages of threads to seek out your gems of wisdom... I don't think so.  All you are doing is proving that you are a hypocrite.  I'm open to learning if you have something to teach. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, so you are going to have to reference reliable sources. Doesn't seem like you have anything more than hot air.
> 
> 
> 
> We get sick of having tonprove, over and over,.what.is.common knowledge. It's what you and pigs like you do to establish a false narrative, and to establish an alternate reality. The Cost of Welfare Use  By Immigrant and Native Households
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What's the false narrative that I'm trying to establish? Talk to me specifically I'm sick of you dipshits who lump everybody into categories. So what exactly is it the agenda that you think I'm pushing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well to begin with, you're lying when you pretend not to believe that illegals are a financial burden for the rest of us. When you demand "proof" of it, and we get disgusted and refuse to provide it over and over and over again, you will seize on that and screech "you can't prove it!"
> 
> Dipshit. Onto ignore you go. Again. I don't know how you got off of it, I've had you on ignore forever. Your'e a waste of time, space and skin. You're derailing your own thread right now with this garbage. The thread OP itself is  false narrative and garbage.  Adios.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm gonna stop you at that first disgustingly dishonest paragraph of yours. I never made any such claims that there were no financial burdens on tax payers. I asked a question and was looking for sources. Post my quote where I said what you claim or STFU.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You implied, by your demand of a *link*, that you didn't believe it. Instead of just addressing the argument, you instead went full stupid, so you didn't have to aua
> 
> The disingenuous left.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scared of a little competition are ya? Land of the free bitch...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lord you are a fucking idiot.  These pieces of shit are collecting fucking welfare and free benefits FROM ME because they cannot build a real economy and country - and you're asking if WE are afraid of competition?  Go away you fucking idiot asshole, you're a worthless trolling turd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> disingenuous. OP knows such things are impossible to track,. Thus he avoids addressing the issue.
Click to expand...

I implied? Oh really, is that the premise of your argument? Well, what you think I was implying is incorrect. I'm pretty direct, if I want to make an argument i'll make one, if I ask a question it is because I want to see what answer i'll get.  In this case I fully do recognize that the undocumented in our country are a cost to the tax payers. I was curious what sources the poster had and he provided one. I've seen many one sided reports that only take into account the costs and don't factor in the tax revenue and economic activity that is generated by the same group of people. 
There are many things that I disagree with him and you about as far as strategy moving forward with this issue but when it comes to presenting and analyzing facts I am open to it all. I don't play those BS partisan games. You can go crawl back into you cloud of ignorance and ignore me again, from what I remember of you, you don't like to back up your overly emotional and hateful arguments with rational thought and reason.


----------



## koshergrl

Slade3200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> We get sick of having tonprove, over and over,.what.is.common knowledge. It's what you and pigs like you do to establish a false narrative, and to establish an alternate reality. The Cost of Welfare Use  By Immigrant and Native Households
> 
> 
> 
> What's the false narrative that I'm trying to establish? Talk to me specifically I'm sick of you dipshits who lump everybody into categories. So what exactly is it the agenda that you think I'm pushing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well to begin with, you're lying when you pretend not to believe that illegals are a financial burden for the rest of us. When you demand "proof" of it, and we get disgusted and refuse to provide it over and over and over again, you will seize on that and screech "you can't prove it!"
> 
> Dipshit. Onto ignore you go. Again. I don't know how you got off of it, I've had you on ignore forever. Your'e a waste of time, space and skin. You're derailing your own thread right now with this garbage. The thread OP itself is  false narrative and garbage.  Adios.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm gonna stop you at that first disgustingly dishonest paragraph of yours. I never made any such claims that there were no financial burdens on tax payers. I asked a question and was looking for sources. Post my quote where I said what you claim or STFU.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You implied, by your demand of a *link*, that you didn't believe it. Instead of just addressing the argument, you instead went full stupid, so you didn't have to aua
> 
> The disingenuous left.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scared of a little competition are ya? Land of the free bitch...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lord you are a fucking idiot.  These pieces of shit are collecting fucking welfare and free benefits FROM ME because they cannot build a real economy and country - and you're asking if WE are afraid of competition?  Go away you fucking idiot asshole, you're a worthless trolling turd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> disingenuous. OP knows such things are impossible to track,. Thus he avoids addressing the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I implied? Oh really, is that the premise of your argument? Well, what you think I was implying is incorrect. I'm pretty direct, if I want to make an argument i'll make one, if I ask a question it is because I want to see what answer i'll get.  In this case I fully do recognize that the undocumented in our country are a cost to the tax payers. I was curious what sources the poster had and he provided one. I've seen many one sided reports that only take into account the costs and don't factor in the tax revenue and economic activity that is generated by the same group of people.
> There are many things that I disagree with him and you about as far as strategy moving forward with this issue but when it comes to presenting and analyzing facts I am open to it all. I don't play those BS partisan games. You can go crawl back into you cloud of ignorance and ignore me again, from what I remember of you, you don't like to back up your overly emotional and hateful arguments with rational thought and reason.
Click to expand...


^^^^Perfect example of hysterical, irrational and emotional non-argument, which is why ppl have you on ignore.


----------



## Slade3200

koshergrl said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the false narrative that I'm trying to establish? Talk to me specifically I'm sick of you dipshits who lump everybody into categories. So what exactly is it the agenda that you think I'm pushing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well to begin with, you're lying when you pretend not to believe that illegals are a financial burden for the rest of us. When you demand "proof" of it, and we get disgusted and refuse to provide it over and over and over again, you will seize on that and screech "you can't prove it!"
> 
> Dipshit. Onto ignore you go. Again. I don't know how you got off of it, I've had you on ignore forever. Your'e a waste of time, space and skin. You're derailing your own thread right now with this garbage. The thread OP itself is  false narrative and garbage.  Adios.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm gonna stop you at that first disgustingly dishonest paragraph of yours. I never made any such claims that there were no financial burdens on tax payers. I asked a question and was looking for sources. Post my quote where I said what you claim or STFU.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You implied, by your demand of a *link*, that you didn't believe it. Instead of just addressing the argument, you instead went full stupid, so you didn't have to aua
> 
> The disingenuous left.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scared of a little competition are ya? Land of the free bitch...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lord you are a fucking idiot.  These pieces of shit are collecting fucking welfare and free benefits FROM ME because they cannot build a real economy and country - and you're asking if WE are afraid of competition?  Go away you fucking idiot asshole, you're a worthless trolling turd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> disingenuous. OP knows such things are impossible to track,. Thus he avoids addressing the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I implied? Oh really, is that the premise of your argument? Well, what you think I was implying is incorrect. I'm pretty direct, if I want to make an argument i'll make one, if I ask a question it is because I want to see what answer i'll get.  In this case I fully do recognize that the undocumented in our country are a cost to the tax payers. I was curious what sources the poster had and he provided one. I've seen many one sided reports that only take into account the costs and don't factor in the tax revenue and economic activity that is generated by the same group of people.
> There are many things that I disagree with him and you about as far as strategy moving forward with this issue but when it comes to presenting and analyzing facts I am open to it all. I don't play those BS partisan games. You can go crawl back into you cloud of ignorance and ignore me again, from what I remember of you, you don't like to back up your overly emotional and hateful arguments with rational thought and reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^^^^Perfect example of hysterical, irrational and emotional non-argument, which is why ppl have you on ignore.
Click to expand...

Which part of my argument was irrational?  The part where I said l like to discuss evidence, stats and facts?  or the part where I recognized the cost and problems cause by illegal immigration in this country? or the part where I said I don't like to play partisan games? 
I think the only thing you proved was my last statement about your lack of substance and tendency to respond with overly emotional and hateful blabber. Case in point with your last response.


----------



## koshergrl

Slade3200 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well to begin with, you're lying when you pretend not to believe that illegals are a financial burden for the rest of us. When you demand "proof" of it, and we get disgusted and refuse to provide it over and over and over again, you will seize on that and screech "you can't prove it!"
> 
> Dipshit. Onto ignore you go. Again. I don't know how you got off of it, I've had you on ignore forever. Your'e a waste of time, space and skin. You're derailing your own thread right now with this garbage. The thread OP itself is  false narrative and garbage.  Adios.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna stop you at that first disgustingly dishonest paragraph of yours. I never made any such claims that there were no financial burdens on tax payers. I asked a question and was looking for sources. Post my quote where I said what you claim or STFU.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You implied, by your demand of a *link*, that you didn't believe it. Instead of just addressing the argument, you instead went full stupid, so you didn't have to aua
> 
> The disingenuous left.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lord you are a fucking idiot.  These pieces of shit are collecting fucking welfare and free benefits FROM ME because they cannot build a real economy and country - and you're asking if WE are afraid of competition?  Go away you fucking idiot asshole, you're a worthless trolling turd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> disingenuous. OP knows such things are impossible to track,. Thus he avoids addressing the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I implied? Oh really, is that the premise of your argument? Well, what you think I was implying is incorrect. I'm pretty direct, if I want to make an argument i'll make one, if I ask a question it is because I want to see what answer i'll get.  In this case I fully do recognize that the undocumented in our country are a cost to the tax payers. I was curious what sources the poster had and he provided one. I've seen many one sided reports that only take into account the costs and don't factor in the tax revenue and economic activity that is generated by the same group of people.
> There are many things that I disagree with him and you about as far as strategy moving forward with this issue but when it comes to presenting and analyzing facts I am open to it all. I don't play those BS partisan games. You can go crawl back into you cloud of ignorance and ignore me again, from what I remember of you, you don't like to back up your overly emotional and hateful arguments with rational thought and reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^^^^Perfect example of hysterical, irrational and emotional non-argument, which is why ppl have you on ignore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which part of my argument was irrational?  The part where I said l like to discuss evidence, stats and facts?  or the part where I recognized the cost and problems cause by illegal immigration in this country? or the part where I said I don't like to play partisan games?
> I think the only thing you proved was my last statement about your lack of substance and tendency to respond with overly emotional and hateful blabber. Case in point with your last response.
Click to expand...


Horse puckey. When you interrupt the dialogue with demands for nitpicky case studies over incontestable points, you are being disingenuous, and you are failing to make your points. Whatever they might be. I don't know, from the OP that presents the farcical *case* of the poor mom being deported for NO GOOD REASON, leaving her considerable brood, to all of your subsequent posts...you're doing nothing but trying to establish a false narrative.

You probably don't even know you're doing it. I will concede that much. I believe your puzzlement is sincere. You tools have been thoroughly brainwashed to the point you have no idea how to even craft an argument, or how to stick to it.


----------



## Slade3200

koshergrl said:


> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna stop you at that first disgustingly dishonest paragraph of yours. I never made any such claims that there were no financial burdens on tax payers. I asked a question and was looking for sources. Post my quote where I said what you claim or STFU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You implied, by your demand of a *link*, that you didn't believe it. Instead of just addressing the argument, you instead went full stupid, so you didn't have to aua
> 
> The disingenuous left.
> 
> 
> Slade3200 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to see stats on that. Can you post a study that shows how much they collect in welfare and benefits vs how much they pay in taxes and economic activity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> disingenuous. OP knows such things are impossible to track,. Thus he avoids addressing the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I implied? Oh really, is that the premise of your argument? Well, what you think I was implying is incorrect. I'm pretty direct, if I want to make an argument i'll make one, if I ask a question it is because I want to see what answer i'll get.  In this case I fully do recognize that the undocumented in our country are a cost to the tax payers. I was curious what sources the poster had and he provided one. I've seen many one sided reports that only take into account the costs and don't factor in the tax revenue and economic activity that is generated by the same group of people.
> There are many things that I disagree with him and you about as far as strategy moving forward with this issue but when it comes to presenting and analyzing facts I am open to it all. I don't play those BS partisan games. You can go crawl back into you cloud of ignorance and ignore me again, from what I remember of you, you don't like to back up your overly emotional and hateful arguments with rational thought and reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^^^^Perfect example of hysterical, irrational and emotional non-argument, which is why ppl have you on ignore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which part of my argument was irrational?  The part where I said l like to discuss evidence, stats and facts?  or the part where I recognized the cost and problems cause by illegal immigration in this country? or the part where I said I don't like to play partisan games?
> I think the only thing you proved was my last statement about your lack of substance and tendency to respond with overly emotional and hateful blabber. Case in point with your last response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Horse puckey. When you interrupt the dialogue with demands for nitpicky case studies over incontestable points, you are being disingenuous, and you are failing to make your points. Whatever they might be. I don't know, from the OP that presents the farcical *case* of the poor mom being deported for NO GOOD REASON, leaving her considerable brood, to all of your subsequent posts...you're doing nothing but trying to establish a false narrative.
> 
> You probably don't even know you're doing it. I will concede that much. I believe your puzzlement is sincere. You tools have been thoroughly brainwashed to the point you have no idea how to even craft an argument, or how to stick to it.
Click to expand...

Ok, now you are actually presenting rational arguments, i'll give you that. The only narrative I know is from the same story that I posted in the OP. Do I know all the facts which were presented to be true? No, I don't. Do you know them to be false? No you don't, yet you presume to be in the know about a situation that you obviously do not have all the facts about, calling the people who have an opposing point of view or even sympathy for families that go through situations like this, ignorant and stupid.  I've made my points pretty clear.  1. Illegal border crossings and visa overstays are problems that need to be addressed, it isn't fair to the people trying to immigrate legally. 2. Deporting 10+ million people is not smart or realistic nor is the "starve them till they leave" tactic.  3. People like you fuel the divide with the insensitive and overly dramatic "criminal leaches that raise crime and drain our bank accounts" narrative. Talk about pushing false and overdramatized narratives... look in the mirror.

Speaking of...  what is this false narrative that you think i'm pushing? You've mentioned it a few times.


----------

