# Tx Satanists sue for their right to Ritual Abortion



## Calypso Jones

> Satanists sue for religious right to ritual abortions - Washington Times Texas
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> The Observer continues, “But the temple’s members consider abortion a ritualistic practice according to co-founder and spokesperson Lucien Greaves … [who maintains the] state regulations disrupt this ritual.”
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> High Priest
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> We have a distinct kind of procedure for this,” said Mr. Greaves, “and in no part of this do we include getting sonograms or any other medically unnecessary acts as are required in Texas. Therefore, the imposition of those things, we feel, is a violation of our religious liberty.”
> Mr. Greaves goes further: “The ritual goes like this: Before the abortion takes place … a member of The Satanic Temple will look at her reflection, be reminded of her personhood and responsibility to herself, take deep breaths, focus on her intent and make herself comfortable. When ready, she will say the third and fifth tenet of the temple aloud.”
> The Satanic third tenet reads, “One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone,” and the fifth reads, “Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs.”
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> “[After the abortion],” says Mr. Greaves, “the woman would return to her reflection and cite her personal affirmation: ‘By my body, my blood. By my will, it is done.’”





> The Observer offers this context for the Satanic suit: “In the Texas suit, an anonymous pregnant temple member has claimed that state regulations interfere with her religious ceremony and raise constitutional suspicions. The member lives 100 miles away from the nearest abortion clinic, the suit claims. It asks the state to reconsider four abortion regulations through the lens of religious liberty … The suit was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas Houston Division against the Texas Department of State Health Services and John Hellerstedt, the commissioner of the agency.”
> Referring to the suit in question, Mr. Greaves concluded, “At this point, it’s still unclear how the lawsuit will play out. We feel that we have such a clearly strong case when we’re looking at legal precedent, and we’re looking at how robust religious liberty laws are now. I’m particularly interested to see how your [expletive] Attorney General Ken Paxton replies … He’s often releasing press releases about the state of religious liberty in other states and what he feels should be done. He likes to use the language of religious liberty, where it seems to me quite obvious he means religious privilege for a specific viewpoint.”
> So, there you have it. Abortion as a religious ritual. Calling those who disagree with you vulgar names. An infantile focus on one’s own body at the expense of everyone else’s. Denying the science of biology, genetics, DNA, and even sonograms, under the banner of science. Killing your own child while chanting “by my body, my blood, by my will, it is done.” Infanticide as merely another religious viewpoint. All of these positions as well as the third and fifth tenets of The Satanic Temple.
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> Sounds stunningly similar to the Democratic Party platform, doesn’t it?


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## Calypso Jones

What do they plan on doing with the Ritual abortion.

Throw it on the Barbee?


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## Lysistrata

Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case. 

This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.

 Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."

BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.


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## Thunderbird

Lysistrata said:


> Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.
> 
> This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.
> 
> Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."
> 
> BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.


White liberal elites love abortion! How else can they kill black people threatening to take over the Democrat Party?


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## Lysistrata

Thunderbird said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.
> 
> This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.
> 
> Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."
> 
> BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.
> 
> 
> 
> White liberal elites love abortion! How else can they kill black people threatening to take over the Democrat Party?
Click to expand...


You are out of your mind. Black people make their own decisions, as do people of other races. It sounds like you believe that black people are incompetent to think for themselves.

This has nothing to do with the Democratic Party (please learn grammar, it's not the "Democrat Party").

If you think that anyone loves abortion, you are an idiot. No one prefers having an invasive surgical procedure to using tools to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Explain why the republicans are so against giving people a comprehensive and accurate sex education and access to contraception. Why do republicans want to set people up to have an unwanted pregnancy and then bitch about abortion? It appears that they have an evil motive.


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## Calypso Jones

> If you think that anyone loves abortion, you are an idiot. No one prefers having an invasive surgical procedure to using tools to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Explain why the republicans are so against giving people a comprehensive and accurate sex education and access to contraception. Why do republicans want to set people up to have an unwanted pregnancy and then bitch about abortion? It appears that they have an evil motive.[.quote]
> 
> oh.  well.  I've been confused by those tee shirts feminists wear that claim pride in having an abortion...or the young woman who had her results there on social media and said, 'i get to kill another baby'.   NO ONE LOVES IT??!!   Then why does the DemoRAT part push it so hard (no pun intended and tax payer funding is provided in the latest bill they just passed this week.
> 
> IF they don't love it then why did Pelousy say that God was fine with abortions??   THEY SAY it is rare but there are women who use it regularly as birth control and then they brag about it!!
> 
> And here you say that repubs have an evil motive when they are against abortion???  Well...that says more about YOUR THINKING and the DEMS thinking than it does for the sanctity of Life...the LIVES of the UNBORN.


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## Calypso Jones

Does this look like the Dem party hates Abortion?


Nancy Pelosi Invokes God and Free Will to Justify Abortion


Nancy Pelosi Says Republicans ‘Dishonor God’ By Defunding ...


The real reason why Nancy Pelosi is a pro-abortion ...


Nancy Pelosi: Killing Babies in Abortions “Unleashes the ...
ht


She’s back: Nancy Pelosi’s top 5 most outrageous abortion ...


Nancy Pelosi gave an answer about late-term abortion that ...


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## Thunderbird

Lysistrata said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.
> 
> This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.
> 
> Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."
> 
> BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.
> 
> 
> 
> White liberal elites love abortion! How else can they kill black people threatening to take over the Democrat Party?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are out of your mind. Black people make their own decisions, as do people of other races. It sounds like you believe that black people are incompetent to think for themselves.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the Democratic Party (please learn grammar, it's not the "Democrat Party").
> 
> If you think that anyone loves abortion, you are an idiot. No one prefers having an invasive surgical procedure to using tools to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Explain why the republicans are so against giving people a comprehensive and accurate sex education and access to contraception. Why do republicans want to set people up to have an unwanted pregnancy and then bitch about abortion? It appears that they have an evil motive.
Click to expand...

Democrat politicians feel African Americans don’t have the right to a job or the right to a quality education or the right to live in a crime-free city only the sacred right to kill their offspring. 

Your name-calling doesn’t change the facts. Some prominent leftists are on record celebrating abortion:



			https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/theres-nothing-wrong-with-abortion.html
		










						'We Need to Talk About Abortion as Necessary Healthcare and a Social Good' - FAIR
					

"So much of the restrictions on abortion are rendered invisible, because they only appear based on who you are, where you live and, frankly, how much money you have in the bank."




					fair.org


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## Lysistrata

Thunderbird said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.
> 
> This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.
> 
> Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."
> 
> BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.
> 
> 
> 
> White liberal elites love abortion! How else can they kill black people threatening to take over the Democrat Party?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are out of your mind. Black people make their own decisions, as do people of other races. It sounds like you believe that black people are incompetent to think for themselves.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the Democratic Party (please learn grammar, it's not the "Democrat Party").
> 
> If you think that anyone loves abortion, you are an idiot. No one prefers having an invasive surgical procedure to using tools to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Explain why the republicans are so against giving people a comprehensive and accurate sex education and access to contraception. Why do republicans want to set people up to have an unwanted pregnancy and then bitch about abortion? It appears that they have an evil motive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Democrat politicians feel African Americans don’t have the right to a job or the right to a quality education or the right to live in a crime-free city only the sacred right to kill their offspring.
> 
> Your name-calling doesn’t change the facts. Some prominent leftists are on record celebrating abortion:
> 
> 
> 
> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/theres-nothing-wrong-with-abortion.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'We Need to Talk About Abortion as Necessary Healthcare and a Social Good' - FAIR
> 
> 
> "So much of the restrictions on abortion are rendered invisible, because they only appear based on who you are, where you live and, frankly, how much money you have in the bank."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fair.org
Click to expand...


You sound quite hysterical.

What is the source of your assertion that Democratic politicians feel that black Americans don't have the rights that you mention? It sounds very nutty.

I don't know what a "leftist" is, much less who a "prominent" leftist might be.

I don't know who Kimberley Inez McGuire is. I read the article and she just seems matter of fact. The other article critiques Milano's statement in the context of the pro-choice movement.

Your assertion that people are "celebrating abortion" is a gross exaggeration. There is a need to speak openly about abortion and how women, particularly those who have had abortions, actually feel about it, what circumstances they were in at the time, and the onerous restrictions that have been placed on women contemplating having an abortion or making the decision to have one, instead of making the matter hush-hush and making these people feel ashamed.


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## Calypso Jones

Democrats wanting to sexualize your children.  Ask yourself why.

NY lawmaker wants sex ed for kindergartners (nypost.com)


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## EvilCat Breath

Ritual abortion is only the first step.  Killing the newborn immediately after birth is as desirable as killing the survivors of abortion once they are born


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## Thunderbird

Lysistrata said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.
> 
> This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.
> 
> Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."
> 
> BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.
> 
> 
> 
> White liberal elites love abortion! How else can they kill black people threatening to take over the Democrat Party?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are out of your mind. Black people make their own decisions, as do people of other races. It sounds like you believe that black people are incompetent to think for themselves.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the Democratic Party (please learn grammar, it's not the "Democrat Party").
> 
> If you think that anyone loves abortion, you are an idiot. No one prefers having an invasive surgical procedure to using tools to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Explain why the republicans are so against giving people a comprehensive and accurate sex education and access to contraception. Why do republicans want to set people up to have an unwanted pregnancy and then bitch about abortion? It appears that they have an evil motive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Democrat politicians feel African Americans don’t have the right to a job or the right to a quality education or the right to live in a crime-free city only the sacred right to kill their offspring.
> 
> Your name-calling doesn’t change the facts. Some prominent leftists are on record celebrating abortion:
> 
> 
> 
> https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/theres-nothing-wrong-with-abortion.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'We Need to Talk About Abortion as Necessary Healthcare and a Social Good' - FAIR
> 
> 
> "So much of the restrictions on abortion are rendered invisible, because they only appear based on who you are, where you live and, frankly, how much money you have in the bank."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fair.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound quite hysterical.
> 
> What is the source of your assertion that Democratic politicians feel that black Americans don't have the rights that you mention? It sounds very nutty.
> 
> I don't know what a "leftist" is, much less who a "prominent" leftist might be.
> 
> I don't know who Kimberley Inez McGuire is. I read the article and she just seems matter of fact. The other article critiques Milano's statement in the context of the pro-choice movement.
> 
> Your assertion that people are "celebrating abortion" is a gross exaggeration. There is a need to speak openly about abortion and how women, particularly those who have had abortions, actually feel about it, what circumstances they were in at the time, and the onerous restrictions that have been placed on women contemplating having an abortion or making the decision to have one, instead of making the matter hush-hush and making these people feel ashamed.
Click to expand...

You sound closed-minded and frankly rather stupid.

Democrat politicians have destroyed so many black communities:









						How Democrats destroyed Baltimore and other American cities, too
					

It’s getting so bad for the Democratic Party leadership that one could almost start feeling sorry for them. Almost, but not entirely. What’s happening to that party is of their own doing with the extraordinary destruction delivered by a party run and influenced by charlatans and frauds.




					m.washingtontimes.com
				












						African Americans Speak for Themselves: Most Want School Choice
					

Private school choice is popular with African Americans.




					www.cato.org
				




We’ve provided many examples of people celebrating abortion, but your mind seems nailed shut against the facts.

Here’s some more examples, but I doubt you’ll be able to assimilate facts that contradict your programming:









						Top 10 Ways Media Spin Abortion as 'Moral,' 'Social Good' - LifeNews.com
					

A new book – a gospel of responsibility-free sex – defines abortion as “right,” “good” and “moral.” It’s what’s “best for kids” and it’s all about a woman’s “unalienable right” to pursue happiness. When Katha Pollitt, an outspoken feminist and columnist for The Nation, published “Pro: Reclaiming...



					www.lifenews.com
				








__





						Feminist Upset That TV Character Didn't Have Abortion: "I Was Hoping" She'd Kill Her Baby - LifeNews.com
					

The Washington Post sank to a new level of depravity last weekend when one of its columnists fumed that a TV character chose life instead of aborting her unborn baby. In a Feb. 19 piece, regular columnist Kate Cohen described herself “storming” into her daughter’s room one day after watching a...



					www.lifenews.com
				




Not a few abortion advocates are enthusiastic about killing black people.









						Are abortion, eugenics, and racism linked? These quotes prove that they are.
					

These are just some of the disturbing quotes showing how racism and eugenics still have a home within the abortion industry today.




					www.liveaction.org
				




Noted racist Ruth Bader Ginsburg is one example.

Leftist elites want minorities poor, fearful, dependent, and uneducated. When minorities are so debased it’s easier to pressure them into abortion and lie them into abortion.


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## Plow Boy

Lysistrata said:


> Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.
> 
> This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.
> 
> Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."
> 
> BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.


You picked a great user name, are you a fan of Aristophanes? He wrote some of the best plays, and I had a rollicking good time reading The Frogs.

Just thought that I would mention it.


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## Plow Boy

Tipsycatlover said:


> Ritual abortion is only the first step.  Killing the newborn immediately after birth is as desirable as killing the survivors of abortion once they are born


You are right, and the time will come, in the by and by, when it will be morally acceptable to kill babies up to 1 year of age.

And then they will go after the old.


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## Colin norris

Does it? 
I gave never seen anything remotely like that.  I know you hate democrats but really? 
Stop being childish.


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## EvilCat Breath

Plow Boy said:


> You are right, and the time will come, in the by and by, when it will be morally acceptable to kill babies up to 1 year of age.
> 
> And then they will go after the old.


I have heard anywhere from two to five years old.


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## Calypso Jones




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## Confederate Soldier

I think it's a load of bull. Satanists are not that prevelant, and the vast majority of those that exist are not "theistic" satanists, aka satanists that believe in God and the devil, but pick the devils side. The majority of satanists do not believe that satan exists and neither does God. They are just extreme atheists that like ticking Christians off.

What we have here are a bunch of atheistic clowns pulling shits from their asses and expecting us to believe that that is actually what they do.


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## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> What we have here are a bunch of atheistic clowns pulling shits from their asses and expecting us to believe that that is actually what they do.


 I see it as no different than a bunch of Christian Clowns expecting to use follow their sharia laws regarding women's bodies.


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## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> I see it as no different than a bunch of Christian Clowns expecting to use follow their sharia laws regarding women's bodies.


So banning killing babies is sharia law? Okay then. Allaw Ackbar and fuck you then.


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## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> So banning killing babies is sharia law? Okay then. Allaw Ackbar and fuck you then.


It ain't a baby at 12 weeks when it is 2 inches and only weighs 0.5 ounces.  

It ain't a baby at conception either.

You conservatives are mentally retarded.


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## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> It ain't a baby at 12 weeks when it is 2 inches and only weighs 0.5 ounces.
> 
> It ain't a baby at conception either.
> 
> You conservatives are mentally retarded.


Who says it ain't a baby? You? A doctor? A politician? 

If fossilized bacteria is life on mars, than a two inch long human-in-progress is life on earth. The fact of the matter is, that two inch long speck will eventually form itself completely. You are essentially snuffing out a future man or woman's life, denying them a chance at life, accomplishing hopes and dreams and having a family of their own.

I'm sorry, but to snuff out a life just because someone didn't do the basic gratuity of wearing a FUCKING CONDOM than shame on you. You will burn in hell whether you believe in it or not.


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## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> Who says it ain't a baby? You? A doctor? A politician?
> 
> If fossilized bacteria is life on mars, than a two inch long human-in-progress is life on earth. The fact of the matter is, that two inch long speck will eventually form itself completely. You are essentially snuffing out a future man or woman's life, denying them a chance at life, accomplishing hopes and dreams and having a family of their own.
> 
> I'm sorry, but to snuff out a life just because someone didn't do the basic gratuity of wearing a FUCKING CONDOM than shame on you. You will burn in hell whether you believe in it or not.


Bacteria is not the same thing fucktard.

Quit using false equivalency to make argument when you have no argument to even make.


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## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Bacteria is not the same thing fucktard.
> 
> Quit using false equivalency to make argument when you have no argument to even make.


Please stop dehumanizing small vulnerable  human life.







People will think you are some kind of Nazi.


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## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> Bacteria is not the same thing fucktard.
> 
> Quit using false equivalency to make argument when you have no argument to even make.


No, no, I do believe it's the same thing. Scientists are all excited to find bacteria on mars, say it's life and all that. So how is it different?


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## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Please stop dehumanizing small vulnerable  human life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People will think you are some kind of Nazi.


Bro, stop talking about biology when you have no knowledge of it whatsoever.

It's making you look like a really ignorant, bat shit crazy, right wing nut.


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## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> No, no, I do believe it's the same thing. Scientists are all excited to find bacteria on mars, say it's life and all that. So how is it different?



Dude, you got google right?  Read up on bacteria.  It's not the same as a fetus.

Bacteria is viable... a fetus is not.  

Your arm is not viable either.

Look up the meaning of the word "viable".


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## wamose

Biden was like a woman wanting an abortion during his Afghanistan withdraw. Instead of planning his moves, he screams for a scapegoat when things go wrong. Birth control is easily available. No excuses.


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## Calypso Jones

> I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.



what planet are you from?    If you've ever met a democrat who supports abortion platform you've met a satanist.    Child sacrifice.   Satan loves it.   
You think the gov't doesn't interfere in a person's religion.    CLosing down churches in 2020, harassing and imprisoning pastors?   Bringing lawsuits against football teams who want to kneel in prayer.  ( oh...that just opened my eyes on this kneeling thing by people who hate this country)    Suing christians bakers and wedding planners for not wanting to accomodate venues that are against their beliefs.      Forcing the removal of religious or patriotic symbols in schools, public places, private property wherever they can. and on and on.  you get the picture i'm sure but i's not one that you'd likely admit to.

Denying persecuted christians asylum in this country yet bringing in our enemy somali muslims to take over our cities.    State department actively standing in the way of evacuating afghani christians from certain death in afghanistan.   Threatening churches with financial consequences if they engage in political rhetoric while allowing leftist churches to do that very thing.


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## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Bro, stop talking about biology when you have no knowledge of it whatsoever.
> 
> It's making you look like a really ignorant, bat shit crazy, right wing nut.


You are obviously very stupid and trying to cover up your ignorance by insulting others.

Why do you feel unborn babies are not small vulnerable human life?


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## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> You are obviously very stupid and trying to cover up your ignorance by insulting others.
> 
> Why do you feel unborn babies are not small vulnerable human life



Here's an example... since you right wing nuts are kind of thick in the head and slow.

At 12 weeks a fetus is only 2 inches long and weighs  0.5 ounces.  That's no more a baby than an egg is chicken.

The fetus can't survive at that stage.  It's not viable.  

It can't even survive in a hospital setting at that point.

So I see nothing wrong with someone aborting it.

Also... making abortion illegal doesn't make it go away... it only makes abortion become dangerous for women at that point, because women will no longer be able to use doctors to end their pregnancies.  They will have to use more clandestine methods to rid themselves of pregnancy which will put themselves in danger.

But I know you rightwing misogynists could care less about women's lives. 

Hell none of you hypocrites even care about children!!!!  That's why you support a political party that routinely loves to cut social programs that impact children, and those living in poverty.

Also we got 400,000 kids in foster care and I don't see any of you rightwing bible thumpers adopting any of these kids.

And the reason why you aren't adopting any of them is because most of those kids happen to be children of color or they have a disability... and you bible thumpers don't want any of that.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> Dude, you got google right?  Read up on bacteria.  It's not the same as a fetus.
> 
> Bacteria is viable... a fetus is not.
> 
> Your arm is not viable either.
> 
> Look up the meaning of the word "viable".


Look up the meaning of the word, murderer. 

a person who commits murder; a killer. What is murder?

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. A fetus, wether you like it or not, is a developing human being.


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> Look up the meaning of the word, murderer.
> 
> a person who commits murder; a killer. What is murder?
> 
> the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. A fetus, wether you like it or not, is a developing human being.


There's nothing in your Magical Invisible Sky Daddy Bible that says abortion is wrong.

So quit your Christian Sharia shit.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> There's nothing in your Magical Invisible Sky Daddy Bible that says abortion is wrong.
> 
> So quit your Christian Sharia shit.




Abortion doesn't have to be mentioned. Abortion is murder. Murder is bad. Anybody with half a brain should know that.

Don't fuck without a condom, and you're all good. Nothing to worry about.


----------



## Baron Von Murderpaws




----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> Abortion doesn't have to be mentioned. Abortion is murder. Murder is bad. Anybody with half a brain should know that.
> 
> Don't fuck without a condom, and you're all good. Nothing to worry about.


Birth control is never 100% effective.

Also, you can't claim murder when something isn't viable.  

If it can't survive without being attached to you... than it's no different than your arm or leg.  It's living but not a separate living thing.  If you remove your arm or leg or even your finger... it will die... same goes for a NON-VIABLE fetus.  Neither of these things are a person because they are not viable.

It also isn't right to force women to have babies they don't want either.

But you don't care about the lives of women do you???  

You think women are brood mares, am I right?

As I said before and I will say it again... Anti-abortion is all about misogyny, racism and classism.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Here's an example... since you right wing nuts are kind of thick in the head and slow.
> 
> At 12 weeks a fetus is only 2 inches long and weighs  0.5 ounces.  That's no more a baby than an egg is chicken.
> 
> The fetus can't survive at that stage.  It's not viable.
> 
> It can't even survive in a hospital setting at that point.
> 
> So I see nothing wrong with someone aborting it.
> 
> Also... making abortion illegal doesn't make it go away... it only makes abortion become dangerous for women at that point, because women will no longer be able to use doctors to end their pregnancies.  They will have to use more clandestine methods to rid themselves of pregnancy which will put themselves in danger.
> 
> But I know you rightwing misogynists could care less about women's lives.
> 
> Hell none of you hypocrites even care about children!!!!  That's why you support a political party that routinely loves to cut social programs that impact children, and those living in poverty.
> 
> Also we got 400,000 kids in foster care and I don't see any of you rightwing bible thumpers adopting any of these kids.
> 
> And the reason why you aren't adopting any of them is because most of those kids happen to be children of color or they have a disability... and you bible thumpers don't want any of that.


Quote: “At 12 weeks pregnant, you’ve nearly reached the end of the first trimester, and your little one has been busy. All of your baby’s vital organs and body parts will be in place this week;”

Quote: “At 12 weeks, the fetus is about the size of a passion fruit, measuring close to 2.5 inches, crown to rump, and weighing approximately 0.5 ounce.“

Link: https://www.pampers.com/en-us/pregnancy/pregnancy-calendar/12-weeks-pregnant

You haven’t answered my question: Why do you feel unborn babies are not small vulnerable human life?

You seem to have suffered a serious brain injury so I’ll help out and provide you with a scientific statement regarding the start of life: When Human Life Begins

You seem to feel that if a human can’t survive on his/her own we should have the right to murder him/her! Isn’t that kind of sick? Many old folk can’t survive on their own. Should we kill them too?

Actually laws can reduce abortion and save the lives of unborn babies:  New Study Demonstrates Effectiveness of Pro-Life Laws Worldwide | National Review

Women do not have to get an abortion. If they want to avoid a dangerous abortion they can just have the baby. Is having a baby that horrible?

Left-wingers certainly love abortion and hate women: Opinion | 160 Million and Counting (Published 2011)

Some Democrats are pro-life. Many religious people have adopted children. Please stop talking nonsense.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> You seem to feel that if a human can’t survive on his/her own we should have the right to murder him/her! Isn’t that kind of sick? Many old folk can’t survive on their own. Should we kill them too?



False equivalency.  Old folks and fetuses are not the same things.  

Old people don't need your body to breathe for them... nor do they need your mouth, stomach or intestines to digest food for them.

Are you that stupid you don't know biology?


----------



## woodwork201

Tipsycatlover said:


> Ritual abortion is only the first step.  Killing the newborn immediately after birth is as desirable as killing the survivors of abortion once they are born


And Lysistrata pretends there's no left and that, if there were a left, they don't like abortion.






						Virginia Governor Describes How Post-Birth Abortion Would Proceed
					

.




					cnsnews.com


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Actually laws can reduce abortion and save the lives of unborn babies: New Study Demonstrates Effectiveness of Pro-Life Laws Worldwide | National Review


Hahaha... that's complete bullshit.  The Phillippines is a perfect example of why *prolife laws DO NOT work*.

You still got women having abortions over there... but because abortion has been made illegal they can no longer get a SAFE abortion with a doctor.... so they have to get dangerous ones that put their lives at risk...

But you anti-abortionists don't care about women's lives do you???

*And do you really care about the pre-born???

If so, then why do you pro-life idiots support political candidates that cut social programs for children???*

BTW, this video is about how the anti-abortion law has created problems in the Philippines.

*We don't need nor do we want that shit here in America. 

Religion will always be the number one reason society regresses and cannot move forward.
*


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Bacteria is not the same thing fucktard.
> 
> Quit using false equivalency to make argument when you have no argument to even make.



Are you seriously suggesting that bacteria has more value than this:


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that bacteria has more value than this:




Again, false equivalency... bacteria has nothing to do with abortion stupid.


----------



## GoBucks007

Calypso Jones said:


> what planet are you from?    If you've ever met a democrat who supports abortion platform you've met a satanist.    Child sacrifice.


Wow you sound like one of those Q'Anon crazies that tried to cause an insurrection January 6th.


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> Bro, stop talking about biology when you have no knowledge of it whatsoever.
> 
> It's making you look like a really ignorant, bat shit crazy, right wing nut.



Biology is not on your side, winger. Scientifically, the zygote/embryo/fetus is a living, developing human. No amount of ugly nasty dehumanizing will change that.  At one time people claimed blacks were not fully human, to justify trampling all over their rights as well. Same with Jews.  I always think it's amusing when proaborts claim that biology is on their side, the opposite is true.


----------



## buttercup

Confederate Soldier said:


> I think it's a load of bull. Satanists are not that prevelant, and the vast majority of those that exist are not "theistic" satanists, aka satanists that believe in God and the devil, but pick the devils side. The majority of satanists do not believe that satan exists and neither does God. They are just extreme atheists that like ticking Christians off.
> 
> What we have here are a bunch of atheistic clowns pulling shits from their asses and expecting us to believe that that is actually what they do.



Even if many of them are simply atheists, they are still following the lowercase "god of this world" if you know what I mean.  Whether they realize it or not.  But that's getting into another topic.


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> Biology is not on your side, winger. Scientifically, the zygote/embryo/fetus is a living, developing human. No amount of ugly nasty dehumanizing will change that.  At one time people claimed blacks were not fully human, to justify trampling all over their rights as well. Same with Jews.  I always think it's amusing when proaborts claim that biology is on their side, the opposite is true.


It's *not* viable idiot... so it doesn't matter. 

*And if it's a human being at conception (which it isn't) then answer this:

Why don't we count embryos in the census?  Why do we wait until they're born to count them?

Why don't we count embryos as dependents?  Why do we wait until they're born to count them as dependents?

If woman has an miscarriage, why don't people hold a funeral?

Obviously, the reason why we don't do any of these things is because fetuses are not considered people UNTIL THEY ARE BORN!!!*


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> Even if many of them are simply atheists, they are still following the lowercase "god of this world" if you know what I mean.  Whether they realize it or not.  But that's getting into another topic.


BTW, all you religious nutters... where in the bible does it say that abortion is wrong???

There's nothing in the bible about abortion being sinful... it's been practiced for centuries... ancient Egyptians, Romans, Jews, Chinese etc...


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> False equivalency.  Old folks and fetuses are not the same things.
> 
> Old people don't need your body to breathe for them... nor do they need your mouth, stomach or intestines to digest food for them.
> 
> Are you that stupid you don't know biology?


Many old people need help breathing, digesting, etc. Why don’t you want to murder them too?

Despite your catastrophic brain injury surely you must understand.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Many old people need help breathing, digesting, etc. Why don’t you want to murder them too?
> 
> Despite your catastrophic brain injury surely you must understand.


Again false equivalency... old people are not the same as a blob of tissue at 12 weeks that weighs only 0.5 ounces... and is no more a human being than an egg is a chicken.

*An old person doesn't need MY LUNGS to breathe for them.... nor do they need MY STOMACH to digest food for them.

Are you religious nuts really that fucking ignorant???*


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> It's *not* viable idiot... so it doesn't matter.
> 
> *And if it's a human being at conception (which it isn't) then answer this:
> 
> Why don't we count embryos in the census?  Why do we wait until they're born to count them?
> 
> Why don't we count embryos as dependents?  Why do we wait until they're born to count them as dependents?
> 
> If woman has an miscarriage, why don't people hold a funeral?
> 
> Obviously, the reason why we don't do any of these things is because fetuses are not considered people UNTIL THEY ARE BORN!!!*


Hey pinhead you could say the same thing about children or the elderly. Children can’t vote, drive, etc. therefore they are not really people. Old folk are confused, weak, etc. therefore they are not really people. Only twisted heartless bastards make these sort of arguments - dehumanizing the vulnerable to justify murder.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Dude, you got google right?  Read up on bacteria.  It's not the same as a fetus.
> 
> Bacteria is viable... a fetus is not.
> 
> Your arm is not viable either.
> 
> Look up the meaning of the word "viable".



No, bacteria is not "viable".  In fact, you should look up the word "viable."  It means capable of living.  To apply the word _viable_ across an entire genre of life is plain stupid. 

e.Coli, on my dry counter top, will live for a few hours to a day - actually not that long because I clean with sanitizing wipes multiple times a day but, in reality, it's simply not _viable_ unless it is kept in the right atmosphere for it's needs.  Without the right environment, bacteria is not viable at all.

You, also, are not viable.  If I take you to a desert and drop you off a few hundred miles from anything, you'll die.  If I just lock you in a cell and walk away, leaving you alone,  you won't be viable.  

So, yes, if you take the unborn baby out of the environment he or she requires to survive, he or she will not be viable.  But then, neither would you.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Again false equivalency... old people are not the same as a blob of tissue at 12 weeks that weighs only 0.5 ounces... and is no more a human being than an egg is a chicken.
> 
> *An old person doesn't need MY LUNGS to breathe for them.... nor do they need MY STOMACH to digest food for them.
> 
> Are you religious nuts really that fucking ignorant???*


Actually some people do need another’s organs.

You haven’t answered my question: Why do you feel unborn babies are not small vulnerable human life?

Are you atheist sickos afraid of a simple question?


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Here's an example... since you right wing nuts are kind of thick in the head and slow.
> 
> At 12 weeks a fetus is only 2 inches long and weighs  0.5 ounces.  That's no more a baby than an egg is chicken.
> 
> The fetus can't survive at that stage.  It's not viable.
> 
> It can't even survive in a hospital setting at that point.
> 
> So I see nothing wrong with someone aborting it.
> 
> Also... making abortion illegal doesn't make it go away... it only makes abortion become dangerous for women at that point, because women will no longer be able to use doctors to end their pregnancies.  They will have to use more clandestine methods to rid themselves of pregnancy which will put themselves in danger.
> 
> But I know you rightwing misogynists could care less about women's lives.
> 
> Hell none of you hypocrites even care about children!!!!  That's why you support a political party that routinely loves to cut social programs that impact children, and those living in poverty.
> 
> Also we got 400,000 kids in foster care and I don't see any of you rightwing bible thumpers adopting any of these kids.
> 
> And the reason why you aren't adopting any of them is because most of those kids happen to be children of color or they have a disability... and you bible thumpers don't want any of that.



I'm very OK with the idea that women who have back alley abortions with coat hangers might get an infection and die as a result of their immoral act.  VERY OK with it.  In fact, I'd kind of like to see more of them suffer that way.  I never said I was a perfect Christian.


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> It's *not* viable idiot... so it doesn't matter.
> 
> *And if it's a human being at conception (which it isn't) then answer this:
> 
> Why don't we count embryos in the census?  Why do we wait until they're born to count them?
> 
> Why don't we count embryos as dependents?  Why do we wait until they're born to count them as dependents?
> 
> If woman has an miscarriage, why don't people hold a funeral?
> 
> Obviously, the reason why we don't do any of these things is because fetuses are not considered people UNTIL THEY ARE BORN!!!*



You're moving the goalposts. In addition to being nasty and hateful, your arguments are horrible.

We weren't about when society generally considers someone an official human being, we were talking about biology.

The criteria for human life is not viability, that is completely unscientific and arbitrary.  Not only that, it changes, as technology changes. 

Also, premature babies have been born (and therefore considered official people) at a point in time where it's still legal to kill a preborn baby.

Do you not see the illogic in that? Saying that Baby A is a person because he's outside the womb, while Baby B is not a person (and therefore disposable) because he's inside the womb, even though they are the exact same age. That just goes to show how messed up the laws are, and how idiotic it is to think that the start of human life can be arbitrarily decided on, depending on whether the baby is wanted or not.


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> You're moving the goalposts. In addition to being nasty and hateful, your arguments are horrible.
> 
> We weren't about when society generally considers someone an official human being, we were talking about biology.
> 
> The criteria for human life is not viability, that is completely unscientific and arbitrary.  Not only that, it changes, as technology changes.
> 
> Also, premature babies have been born (and therefore considered official people) at a point in time where it's still legal to kill a preborn baby.
> 
> Do you not see the illogic in that? Saying that Baby A is a person because he's outside the womb, while Baby B is not a person (and therefore disposable) because he's inside the womb, even though they are the exact same age. That just goes to show how messed up the laws are, and how idiotic it is to think that the start of human life can be arbitrarily decided on, depending on whether the baby is wanted or not.



Hey dumb ass... a fetus at 12 weeks cannot survive outside the womb... nor can an embryo.

Are you really that stupid?


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> I'm very OK with the idea that women who have back alley abortions with coat hangers might get an infection and die as a result of their immoral act.  VERY OK with it.  In fact, I'd kind of like to see more of them suffer that way.  I never said I was a perfect Christian.


Yeah you prove my point that anti-abortionists are misogynists.


----------



## woodwork201

Confederate Soldier said:


> Look up the meaning of the word, murderer.
> 
> a person who commits murder; a killer. What is murder?
> 
> the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. A fetus, wether you like it or not, is a developing human being.


It is more than a *developing* human being.  It _*is*_ a human being having every single thing required to develop, in the appropriate environment, to the next stage of being a human.


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> Hey dumb ass... a fetus at 12 weeks cannot survive outside the womb... nor can an embryo.
> 
> Are you really that stupid?



Did you not read ANYTHING I just said? I just finished saying that viability is not the criteria for human life.  

You are projecting in a major, major way, by calling other people stupid.   My goodness.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Actually some people do need another’s organs.


But we don't FORCE people to provide their organs to others, now do we????

So why should we force women to provide THEIR BODY to grow a fetus that they DO NOT WANT???


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Hahaha... that's complete bullshit.  The Phillippines is a perfect example of why *prolife laws DO NOT work*.
> 
> You still got women having abortions over there... but because abortion has been made illegal they can no longer get a SAFE abortion with a doctor.... so they have to get dangerous ones that put their lives at risk...
> 
> But you anti-abortionists don't care about women's lives do you???
> 
> *And do you really care about the pre-born???
> 
> If so, then why do you pro-life idiots support political candidates that cut social programs for children???*
> 
> BTW, this video is about how the anti-abortion law has created problems in the Philippines.
> 
> *We don't need nor do we want that shit here in America.
> 
> Religion will always be the number one reason society regresses and cannot move forward.*


The abortion industry has enough money to spew propaganda. I think you’ll find most of the phony statistics come from the Guttmacher Institute, which is just an arm of the abortion industry.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> It is more than a *developing* human being.  It _*is*_ a human being having every single thing required to develop, in the appropriate environment, to the next stage of being a human.


Yeah "required to develop"... is not the same thing as actually having all the necessary systems in place to survive as separate living thing...

A embryo is not viable.  It still requires the mother's body to breathe for it, digest food for it etc.

Bacteria is viable... it doesn't require humans at all for survival.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> But we don't FORCE people to provide their organs to others, now do we????
> 
> So why should we force women to provide THEIR BODY to grow a fetus that they DO NOT WANT???


Because the woman put the baby in her womb in the first place. The woman placed the unborn baby in a vulnerable position so she is responsible for taking care of it for 9 months.

Why do you keep running from my questions? Are you twisted atheist sickos always so afraid to answer a direct question? Why do you feel unborn babies are not small vulnerable human life?

More questions to terrify you:

Why do you feel the study by Michael New I linked to earlier is wrong?

Why do misogynists like yourself embrace the abortion industry which has killed tens of millions of baby girls?


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Yeah you prove my point that anti-abortionists are misogynists.


No; I don't hate women.  I hate killing innocent babies.  It is, and has always been, the left that hates women.  

It is the left who intentionally and knowingly convinced hundreds of thousands of women and young girls to go through rape, sexual exploitation, and even murder in order to get a few new Democratic voters.  

It is the left who abandoned the women of Afghanistan to be beheaded, raped, and worse by the Taliban, for young girls to be raped and turned into sexual slaves to Taliban fighters.  It is the left who let Afghan men bring little girls as their wives and bring them to the US and leave them in the hands of their abductors even though the historical process has always been for the Immigration Service to take charge of children separated from their parents but not with those from Afghanistan.

It is the left who force anyone with a public restroom to allow men to go into the women's restroom.  It is the left who defended the gym who allowed a man to walk around flashing his penis in the women's area and suggested that he might be a woman.

It is the left who force public school and university women's sports teams to allow men to compete on the same team with the women and girls - oh, and then shower and dress with those same women and girls.

It is the left who elected a president who is on film and video many, many times, molesting girls and sniffing their hair.  It is the left who completely ignored the credible charges of sexual assault and rape against Joe Biden.  

No; it is not I who is the misogynist; it is clearly you and the Democrats.


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> Did you not read ANYTHING I just said? I just finished saying that viability is not the criteria for human life.
> 
> You are projecting in a major, major way, by calling other people stupid.   My goodness.


When it comes to abortion, the only thing you religious idiots can argue about is the morality of it.... but even your blessed little invisible Sky Daddy bible says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ABORTION!!!

You're arguments that it is a person when it is 0.5 ounces or a even an embryo are completely nuts.

I guess that's why you can't answer my questions... *why don't we count embryos as dependents? 

Why don't we count embryos in the Census?*

You don't have any answer for that because your argument is bullshit.  Nothing but religious bullshit.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Because the woman put the baby in her womb in the first place. The woman placed the unborn baby in a vulnerable position so she is responsible for taking care of it for 9 months.


If a seed drops into the ground... do we have to let it grow into a tree?

No we don't.

Likewise... we don't have to let a fetus continue to grow either.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Hey dumb ass... a fetus at 12 weeks cannot survive outside the womb... nor can an embryo.
> 
> Are you really that stupid?


Being in the womb is but one stage of being human.  Other stages include infancy, early childhood, puberty,  young adulthood, mature adulthood, and the geriatric stage.  A human looks and acts differently in each of those stages.  In each of those stages a human requires differing, and appropriate to the stage, support from other humans for _viability_. 

Since girls who have not gone through puberty are not fully developed humans, can we kill them?  Boys, too?  No pubic hair, no breasts, you're not a full human and we can kill you.

Or what about grey hair? Question is, does that represent what a true human is or does it mean someone is no longer a human?  Do we kill everyone without grey hair or everyone with grey hair?


----------



## cnm

Thunderbird said:


> Because the woman put the baby in her womb in the first place.


I can see someone forgot to have the talk with you....


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> It is the left who intentionally and knowingly convinced hundreds of thousands of women and young girls to go through rape, sexual exploitation, and even murder in order to get a few new Democratic voters.


WTF??  This is complete looney-ness....

You sound like a Q'anon quack now.


----------



## cnm

woodwork201 said:


> In each of those stages a human requires differing, and appropriate to the stage, support from other humans for _viability_.


What support do you currently require for your _viability_?


----------



## cnm

GoBucks007 said:


> WTF?? This is complete looney-ness....
> 
> You sound like a Q'anon quack now.


Now?


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> Since girls who have not gone through puberty are not fully developed humans, can we kill them? Boys, too? No pubic hair, no breasts, you're not a full human and we can kill you.


You must be incredibly thick in the head.

Can a pre-pubscent girl or boy breathe on their own?  Do they have lungs, a stomach, intestines???

Yep... they sure do have these things.... so that makes them VIABLE.  

Does an embryo have lungs or a stomach?  

No it doesn't... it's like your arm or leg... living but not biologically a separate living thing.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> It is the left who abandoned the women of Afghanistan to be beheaded, raped, and worse by the Taliban, for young girls to be raped and turned into sexual slaves to Taliban fighters.  It is the left who let Afghan men bring little girls as their wives and bring them to the US and leave them in the hands of their abductors even though the historical process has always been for the Immigration Service to take charge of children separated from their parents but not with those from Afghanistan.


Sorry, it's not our job to defend a country that doesn't want to defend itself from the Taliban.


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> When it comes to abortion, the only thing you religious idiots can argue about is the morality of it.... but even your blessed little invisible Sky Daddy bible says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ABORTION!!!
> 
> You're arguments that it is a person when it is 0.5 ounces or a even an embryo are completely nuts.
> 
> I guess that's why you can't answer my questions... *why don't we count embryos as dependents?
> 
> Why don't we count embryos in the Census?*
> 
> You don't have any answer for that because your argument is bullshit.  Nothing but religious bullshit.



Wow, I've come across a lot of unhinged, illogical proaborts in the past, but you're making _them_ look sane. 

You haven't even acknowledged (let alone refuted) anything I have said, you're just repeating your inane non-arguments.

And sorry, but I haven't used religion as an argument for my position on abortion, as a matter of fact I brought up biology… which you completely ignored.  What your ignorant little mind evidently doesn't realize is that there are numerous prolifers who are non-religious, agnostic or atheist.  Obviously your take on this is outdated and ignorant.


----------



## GoBucks007

cnm said:


> Now?


Yeah, you're right.  He/she/it has probably been a crazy nut for a long time.  

Hahahaha!


----------



## buttercup

woodwork201 said:


> Being in the womb is but one stage of being human.  Other stages include infancy, early childhood, puberty,  young adulthood, mature adulthood, and the geriatric stage.  A human looks and acts differently in each of those stages.  In each of those stages a human requires differing, and appropriate to the stage, support from other humans for _viability_.



*Exactly!* What these ignoramuses don't realize is that we are human beings from Day One, simply in different stages of life. Just as a newborn baby isn't supposed to be capable of Algebra, a preborn baby is not supposed to be capable of certain things. That doesn't make the preborn non-human, or even less human than anyone else.

One can't be more human or less human, you either are or you aren't.


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> 
> And sorry, but I haven't used religion as an argument for my position on abortion, as a matter of fact I brought up biology… which you completely ignored.
Click to expand...




buttercup said:


> Wow, I've come across a lot of unhinged, illogical proaborts in the past, but you're making _them_ look sane.
> 
> You haven't even acknowledged (let alone refuted) anything I have said, you're just repeating your inane non-arguments.
> 
> And sorry, but I haven't used religion as an argument for my position on abortion, as a matter of fact I brought up biology… which you completely ignored.  What your ignorant little mind evidently doesn't realize is that there are numerous prolifers who are non-religious, agnostic or atheist.  Obviously your take on this is outdated and ignorant.


I answered your questions about viability but you ignored it... just like the rest of your fellow religious nutters.

There's no technology to keep embryos alive... or fetuses at 12 weeks.... we don't have artificial wombs.

All we have at the moment is crazy misogynistic idiots who want women to be brood mares that's all.  

We have nutty people who want to force women to have babies they don't want.


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> *Exactly!* What these ignoramuses don't realize is that we are human beings from Day One, simply in different stages of life. Just as a newborn baby isn't supposed to be capable of Algebra, preborn baby are also not supposed to be capable of certain things. That doesn't make the preborn non-human, or even less human than anyone else.
> 
> One can't be more human or less human, you either are or you aren't.


They're not human beings from day one.  

That's why the census doesn't count them.

That's why the IRS doesn't consider them as dependents.

Are you really that stupid?


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> You must be incredibly thick in the head.
> 
> Can a pre-pubscent girl or boy breathe on their own?  Do they have lungs, a stomach, intestines???
> 
> Yep... they sure do have these things.... so that makes them VIABLE.
> 
> Does an embryo have lungs or a stomach?
> 
> No it doesn't... it's like your arm or leg... living but not biologically a separate living thing.


Wow an unborn baby has its own distinct DNA. You are a biological illiterate. Are all you atheists really this dumb?


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> I answered your questions about viability but you ignored it... just like the rest of your fellow religious nutters.
> 
> There's no technology to keep embryos alive... or fetuses at 12 weeks.... we don't have artificial wombs.
> 
> All we have at the moment is crazy misogynistic idiots who want women to be brood mares that's all.
> 
> We have nutty people who want to force women to have babies they don't want.



Questions? What questions? I didn't ask questions about viability, I made a statement about viability. And you must be thinking of someone else because I didn't see you respond to what I said. If I missed it then point me to your response.


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> They're not human beings from day one.
> 
> That's why the census doesn't count them.
> 
> That's why the IRS doesn't consider them as dependents.
> 
> Are you really that stupid?



OK, I'm seeing that you're the type that needs things to be repeated. So I'll do so, slowly and clearly for you.

*We weren't talking about when society generally considers someone an official human being. We were talking about biology.*

Will I have to repeat that again for you, before you finally grasp that?


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Wow an unborn baby has its own distinct DNA. You are a biological illiterate. Are all you atheists really this dumb?


Yeah bacteria has DNA...  a sperm cell has DNA......

But they're not human beings now are they?

An embryo is no more a human than an egg is chicken or an acorn is an oak tree.

Do you own a car if you only have 4 tires?  

NO!

Do you have a person if that clump of cells called a fetus has not yet developed any lungs, brain, stomach, liver,etc?

NO!  There's no person there!


----------



## buttercup

Thunderbird said:


> Wow an unborn baby has its own distinct DNA. You are a biological illiterate. Are all you atheists really this dumb?



Well said. Although I wouldn't lump him in with atheists as a whole. There are prolife atheists. And there are prochoice atheists who certainly have much more sense than that guy, and are capable of having an actual debate.


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> Well said. Although I wouldn't lump him in with atheists as a whole. There are prolife atheists. And there are prochoice atheists who certainly have much more sense than that guy, and are capable of having an actual debate.


DNA has nothing to do with viability and that's what ROE v. Wade is based on.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> They're not human beings from day one.
> 
> That's why the census doesn't count them.
> 
> That's why the IRS doesn't consider them as dependents.
> 
> Are you really that stupid?


You ignore the facts and keep repeating your same brain dead arguments.

Check out the website: When Human Life Begins

Here’s what the American College of Pediatricians says: human life begins at conception—fertilization.  At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.

Just admit you are wrong and let go of your ignorant prejudices. You don’t have to be a moron your whole life!


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> There's nothing in your Magical Invisible Sky Daddy Bible that says abortion is wrong.
> 
> So quit your Christian Sharia shit.


It usually comes down to that and people like you end up showing your true motivation.  In the end, you simply hate Christians.  Like most atheists, it's not enough to be agnostic, it requires you to attack.  So you attack our beliefs out of your own hatred.

Is stealing wrong?  Is murder wrong?  Is rape wrong?  Is cheating on your wife or husband wrong?  

I'm going to assume that you will agree that those things are wrong.  They're not wrong because they're in the Bible.  They're not wrong because our Heavenly Father told us they're wrong.  Those things are in the Bible because they are wrong.  Our (as in *yours and mine*) Heavenly Father requires that we not do those things because they are wrong.

You assume that we don't believe in Christianity but are forced to it and have no will or choice of our own.  That's not any more the case for us than it is the case that you're forced into your hatred for us.  We choose God just as you choose to hate us for choosing God.  Choices, all around.

So, it isn't that we're Christians, or of any other particular faith, that tells us that abortion is wrong; it's our inherent humanity and morality.  Presumably, even you have some of that inherent humanity and morality because, I assume,  you don't steal, rape,. or cheat on your wife.  You're just so caught up in your hate for God and His believers that you are confused.  

What you really should be doing is looking inside of yourself to understand from where that hate comes and realize that taking it out on innocent babies does not undo the hurt in you.


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> DNA has nothing to do with viability and that's what ROE v. Wade is based on.



Where did I say that DNA had to do with viability? Strawman. As for Roe v Wade, you _do_ realize that a law isn't what determines what is actually true, do you not? 

At one point slavery was legal. Did that make it truly acceptable and morally justifiable? This is obviously hypothetical, but if rape was legalized tomorrow, would that make it OK?


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Birth control is never 100% effective.
> 
> *SNIP*
> 
> It also isn't right to force women to have babies they don't want either.


I can tell you what is 100% effective.

Is it OK for parents to kill their born children that they don't want?  Parents took actions that resulted in a child.  Once that happens, they need to behave like responsible adults and take care of that child.  They should not be allowed to change their mind in the early stages of life any more than they would be allowed to change their mind in later stages of life.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> It usually comes down to that and people like you end up showing your true motivation.  In the end, you simply hate Christians.  Like most atheists, it's not enough to be agnostic, it requires you to attack.  So you attack our beliefs out of your own hatred.
> 
> Is stealing wrong?  Is murder wrong?  Is rape wrong?  Is cheating on your wife or husband wrong?
> 
> I'm going to assume that you will agree that those things are wrong.  They're not wrong because they're in the Bible.  They're not wrong because our Heavenly Father told us they're wrong.  Those things are in the Bible because they are wrong.  Our (as in *yours and mine*) Heavenly Father requires that we not do those things because they are wrong.
> 
> You assume that we don't believe in Christianity but are forced to it and have no will or choice of our own.  That's not any more the case for us than it is the case that you're forced into your hatred for us.  We choose God just as you choose to hate us for choosing God.  Choices, all around.
> 
> So, it isn't that we're Christians, or of any other particular faith, that tells us that abortion is wrong; it's our inherent humanity and morality.  Presumably, even you have some of that inherent humanity and morality because, I assume,  you don't steal, rape,. or cheat on your wife.  You're just so caught up in your hate for God and His believers that you are confused.
> 
> What you really should be doing is looking inside of yourself to understand from where that hate comes and realize that taking it out on innocent babies does not undo the hurt in you.


Hahaha... I am not atheist.... but I also believe in science.

And an embryo is no more a human being than an egg is a chicken.

So I really don't see anything scientifically wrong or even morally wrong with abortions at all.
*
Also, there's NOTHING in the bible that states abortion is a sin.*

Furthermore, abortion has been used for centuries.

It's only been in the 19th century that religious nuts started saying it was wrong... the same religious nuts that also tried to control contraception.

So given this latter fact... anti-abortionism is deeply rooted in misogyny.

Anti-abortion is anti-woman...


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> Where did I say that DNA had to do with viability? Strawman. As for Roe v Wade, you _do_ realize that a law isn't what determines what is actually true, do you not?
> 
> At one point slavery was legal. Did that make it truly acceptable and morally justifiable? This is obviously hypothetical, but if rape was legalized tomorrow, would that make it OK?


I am looking at ROE v. Wade because that is settled law.... the law of the USA for almost 40 years.

And if you read the SCOTUS decision... it all comes down to viability.  That's why it's OK to abort a fetus up to 24 weeks.

Also ROE V. Wade was about a woman's right to privacy... which is as it should be.

What a woman does with her uterus is not the business of anti-abortion religious nuts.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> Is it OK for parents to kill their born children that they don't want?  Parents took actions that resulted in a child.  Once that happens, they need to behave like responsible adults and take care of that child.  They should not be allowed to change their mind in the early stages of life any more than they would be allowed to change their mind in later stages of life.


We don't kill BORN children... because they are considered human beings.

A fetus is not a human being... it only becomes human when it becomes viable.

Someone is NOT a murderer because they killed a fucking embryo.... that's nuts.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> When it comes to abortion, the only thing you religious idiots can argue about is the morality of it.... but even your blessed little invisible Sky Daddy bible says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ABORTION!!!
> 
> You're arguments that it is a person when it is 0.5 ounces or a even an embryo are completely nuts.
> 
> I guess that's why you can't answer my questions... *why don't we count embryos as dependents?
> 
> Why don't we count embryos in the Census?*
> 
> You don't have any answer for that because your argument is bullshit.  Nothing but religious bullshit.


Neither tax laws nor census laws are science, stupid.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> If a seed drops into the ground... do we have to let it grow into a tree?
> 
> No we don't.
> 
> Likewise... we don't have to let a fetus continue to grow either.


If a seed grows into a young tree, or even an old tree, assuming there are no Democrats around, I can kill it.  Can I do that to a child?

You actually highlight a good point that Democrats care more about the life of a tree than of a child or a woman.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Hahaha... I am not atheist.... but I also believe in science.
> 
> And an embryo is no more a human being than an egg is a chicken.
> 
> So I really don't see anything scientifically wrong or even morally wrong with abortions at all.
> 
> *Also, there's NOTHING in the bible that states abortion is a sin.*
> 
> Furthermore, abortion has been used for centuries.
> 
> It's only been in the 19th century that religious nuts started saying it was wrong... the same religious nuts that also tried to control contraception.
> 
> So given this latter fact... anti-abortionism is deeply rooted in misogyny.
> 
> Anti-abortion is anti-woman...


Again you are only exposing your ignorance. The AMA pushed for laws to protect the unborn. You should thank these doctors, if not for their efforts you might not have been born.

Facts which I am sure you will ignore: You’re Alive Today Because of this 19th Century Doctor

Please also admit that the abortion industry has murdered millions of vulnerable unborn babies for the “crime” of being a girl.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> You ignore the facts and keep repeating your same brain dead arguments.
> 
> Check out the website: When Human Life Begins
> 
> Here’s what the American College of Pediatricians says: human life begins at conception—fertilization.  At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.
> 
> Just admit you are wrong and let go of your ignorant prejudices. You don’t have to be a moron your whole life!


Yes human life begins at conception... but it's not viable unless it is *allowed to develop*..

Do we need to allow something to develop?

No we do not!


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Facts which I am sure you will ignore: You’re Alive Today Because of this 19th Century Doctor


Hahahahahahahaha!  This is bullshit!  Not every woman was going to end their pregnancy in the 19th century, hahahahaha!!!

The only women who wanted to end their pregnancies were women who didn't want to have children at that particular time in their life.

You anti-abortionists are fucking crazy!

Hahahahaha!


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Yes human life begins at conception... but it's not viable unless it is *allowed to develop*..
> 
> Do we need to allow something to develop?
> 
> No we do not!


Thanks for admitting your ignorance. Keep following this path and someday in the distant future you may not be a moron.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Again you are only exposing your ignorance. The AMA pushed for laws to protect the unborn. You should thank these doctors, if not for their efforts you might not have been born.


The only reason why the AMA pushed for laws to protect the unborn was because they want to move in on the business of homepaths and midwives

Here read this:









						History of Abortion in the U.S. Timeline
					

Learn the facts about abortion history in the U.S., including when it started and a timeline of abortion laws, methods and more. Read now!




					eastsidegynecology.com


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> WTF??  This is complete looney-ness....
> 
> You sound like a Q'anon quack now.



I assume that your challenge to this one statement means you acknowledge the accuracy of the rest.  So now let me prove this one to you:









						Nearly 8,700 criminals arrested at southern border in past 10 months, including repeat sex offenders - Corridor News
					

By Bethany Blankley | The Center Square Over the past 10 months, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol agen




					smcorridornews.com
				












						'We live in fear': Over 6,000 migrants in Mexico have been violently attacked
					

An investigation by Human Rights First compiled thousands of attacks  against migrants and asylum-seekers, including kidnapping, extortion, human trafficking and rape.




					www.nbcnews.com
				








__





						Sexual assault of migrants from Latin America to the United States - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Thanks for admitting your ignorance. Keep following this path and someday in the distant future you may not be a moron.


Hahahaha...   I think that would be you religious nuts.

Your heads are wedged so far up your asses, you are eating shit out of your small intestines, lol.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> I assume that your challenge to this one statement means you acknowledge the accuracy of the rest.  So now let me prove this one to you:


Are you trying to prove you are a Q'anon quack???

We don't need evidence... we already know you are!


----------



## woodwork201

cnm said:


> What support do you currently require for your _viability_?


I require food that comes from my partnership with my wife.  I require the love of my wife, my children, and my grandchildren.  As I get older, I will require more help from family or others to keep me alive, as will you.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> You must be incredibly thick in the head.
> 
> Can a pre-pubscent girl or boy breathe on their own?  Do they have lungs, a stomach, intestines???
> 
> Yep... they sure do have these things.... so that makes them VIABLE.
> 
> Does an embryo have lungs or a stomach?
> 
> No it doesn't... it's like your arm or leg... living but not biologically a separate living thing.


An infant can breathe on its own and has lungs, stomach, and intestines.  Can it survive on its own?  Idiot.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Sorry, it's not our job to defend a country that doesn't want to defend itself from the Taliban.


Explain the little girls left with their elderly husbands here in the US.









						Growing fears child brides brought to US in Afghan evacuation
					

US officials are looking into reports that elderly Afghan men were permitted to evacuate with young girls they claimed as “wives,” with some of the maybe being child brides brought to F…




					nypost.com
				




You, Biden, and all Democrats and all leftists are, in fact, the misogynists.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Hahahahahahahaha!  This is bullshit!  Not every woman was going to end their pregnancy in the 19th century, hahahahaha!!!
> 
> The only women who wanted to end their pregnancies were women who didn't want to have children at that particular time in their life.
> 
> You anti-abortionists are fucking crazy!
> 
> Hahahahaha!!


I never said every woman was going to kill her children. Why is your reading comprehension so bad?

Please admit that the AMA pushed for laws to protect unborn babies. You’ve admitted your ignorance before, I’m sure you can do it again. I’m rooting for you!


----------



## woodwork201

buttercup said:


> OK, I'm seeing that you're the type that needs things to be repeated. So I'll do so, slowly and clearly for you.
> 
> *We weren't talking about when society generally considers someone an official human being. We were talking about biology.*
> 
> Will I have to repeat that again for you, before you finally grasp that?


And the leftists claim to be the followers of science...


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> An infant can breathe on its own and has lungs, stomach, and intestines.  Can it survive on its own?  Idiot.


False equivalency again.....

An infant is not the same as fetus,  idiot.

An infant doesn't need a mother... it just needs someone to feed it, change its diaper etc.

It can breath on its own, digest food etc.

A fetus at 12 weeks... no matter how well you tried to feed it... it would die... as it doesn't have a stomach, nor does it have lungs to breathe.

It's not viable... it can't survive outside the womb.... whereas an infant IS viable.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Hahaha... I am not atheist.... but I also believe in science.
> 
> And an embryo is no more a human being than an egg is a chicken.
> 
> So I really don't see anything scientifically wrong or even morally wrong with abortions at all.
> 
> *Also, there's NOTHING in the bible that states abortion is a sin.*
> 
> Furthermore, abortion has been used for centuries.
> 
> It's only been in the 19th century that religious nuts started saying it was wrong... the same religious nuts that also tried to control contraception.
> 
> So given this latter fact... anti-abortionism is deeply rooted in misogyny.
> 
> Anti-abortion is anti-woman...


Not an atheist?  Really?  You're a religious man?  It doesn't show.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> I never said every woman was going to kill her children. Why is your reading comprehension so bad?
> 
> Please admit that the AMA pushed for laws to protect unborn babies. You’ve admitted your ignorance before, I’m sure you can do it again. I’m rooting for you!


The AMA pushed for laws on abortion because they were threatened by women who were giving abortions to other women.

They wanted in on the anti-abortion business!


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> Not an atheist?  Really?  You're a religious man?  It doesn't show.


Not everyone is a crazy right wing anti abortion evangelical....


----------



## GoBucks007




----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Yes human life begins at conception... but it's not viable unless it is *allowed to develop*..
> 
> Do we need to allow something to develop?
> 
> No we do not!



Then, by your logic, we needn't allow an infant to develop into a child.  We needn't allow a child to reach puberty.  We needn't allow a pubescent teenager to reach adulthood.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> The only reason why the AMA pushed for laws to protect the unborn was because they want to move in on the business of homepaths and midwives
> 
> Here read this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Abortion in the U.S. Timeline
> 
> 
> Learn the facts about abortion history in the U.S., including when it started and a timeline of abortion laws, methods and more. Read now!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eastsidegynecology.com


Glad to see you again admitting you ignorance.

Do you realize your source is an abortion provider? Do you think they might be biased?


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> Then, by your logic, we needn't allow an infant to develop into a child.  We needn't allow a child to reach puberty.  We needn't allow a pubescent teenager to reach adulthood.


Another False equivalency Fallacy yet again...

Born Humans are not fetuses, fucktard.  They don't require other people's bodies to breathe or eat for them.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Glad to see you again admitting you ignorance.


Nope I am going by facts... you are going by anti-abortion, religious propaganda...


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> But we don't FORCE people to provide their organs to others, now do we????
> 
> So why should we force women to provide THEIR BODY to grow a fetus that they DO NOT WANT???


Nobody required a woman to grow a fetus.  Please show me a single case where someone did that in the United States where they weren't charged with rape or other felony.

When a woman chooses actions that produce a child, and she wasn't forced, then she becomes as obligated to care for her child at that stage of life just as she is required to feed and care for them after birth - even if the care required differs in each of the stages, the obligation do do so as long as the child is  unable to care for itself stays the same and failure to care for that child is a crime.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> Nobody required a woman to grow a fetus.  Please show me a single case where someone did that in the United States where they weren't charged with rape or other felony.
> 
> When a woman chooses actions that produce a child, and she wasn't forced, then she becomes as obligated to care for her child at that stage of life just as she is required to feed and care for them after birth - even if the care required differs in each of the stages, the obligation do do so as long as the child is  unable to care for itself stays the same and failure to care for that child is a crime.


  You are obligated to care for a child when it is born... but not before it is born.  That's why abortion is legal, dum dum.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> Nobody required a woman to grow a fetus.


The state of Tex-ass is requiring women to grow fetuses.

Just because a woman has sex and the birth control fails... why should she be required to grow the fetus?

That's bullshit.

The state needs to keep its nose out of women's uteruses.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Not everyone is a crazy right wing anti abortion evangelical....


You are right. Some people are drooling ignorant pro-abortion fanatics who keep repeating the same dumb arguments in defense of an industry that murders children.


----------



## GoBucks007

woodwork201 said:


> I require food that comes from my partnership with my wife.  I require the love of my wife, my children, and my grandchildren.  As I get older, I will require more help from family or others to keep me alive, as will you.


Do you require your wife's lungs to breathe for you?  Do you require your children's stomachs to digest food for you??

Then you are not a fetus... you are VIABLE HUMAN BEING

If however you develop a need for an umbilical cord attached to another human being to stay alive... then perhaps someone will abort you and eliminate your stupid self.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> You are right. Some people are drooling ignorant pro-abortion fanatics who keep repeating the same dumb arguments in defense of an industry that murders children.


Hahahaha.... murdering children... hahahahahah..

No murders are taking place... just women ending their pregnancies...


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Some people are drooling ignorant pro-abortion fanatics


And some people are knuckle dragging anti-abortion idiots who kill doctors and nurses and blow up abortion clinics to save a clump of cells...


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> The state of Tex-ass is requiring women to grow fetuses.
> 
> Just because a woman has sex and the birth control fails... why should she be required to grow the fetus?
> 
> That's bullshit.
> 
> The state needs to keep its nose out of women's uteruses.


Freedom is great, but no one has the right to murder children. 

We have laws to protect animals, why not laws to protect small vulnerable children?


----------



## Crepitus

Tipsycatlover said:


> Ritual abortion is only the first step.  Killing the newborn immediately after birth is as desirable as killing the survivors of abortion once they are born


Only if they're republican.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Hahahaha.... murdering children... hahahahahah..
> 
> No murders are taking place... just women ending their pregnancies...


What’s the matter with you laughing at the murder of children? That is really sick. Have you  tried counseling?

Are human lives being ended?

Your euphemisms fail to conceal the ugliness of abortion.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Freedom is great, but no one has the right to murder children.
> 
> We have laws to protect animals, why not laws to protect small vulnerable children?


We have laws that protect BORN ANIMALS AND BORN CHILDREN...

The unborn does not supersede the right of the mother, idiot.


----------



## GoBucks007

GoBucks007 said:


> We have laws that protect BORN ANIMALS AND BORN CHILDREN...
> 
> The unborn does not supersede the right of the mother, idiot.


According to this video... the brain doesn't show up until week 13 and the brain doesn't start functioning until week 26

So without a functioning brain... or even a brain at all... is it a human or just a clump of cells?

I say it's not a human!


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> We have laws that protect BORN ANIMALS AND BORN CHILDREN...
> 
> The unborn does not supersede the right of the mother, idiot.


So ten minutes before birth it’s okay to kill a baby? You don’t really believe that.


----------



## Thunderbird

Same dumb pro-abortion arguments:


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> According to this video... the brain doesn't show up until week 13 and the brain doesn't start functioning until week 26
> 
> So without a functioning brain... or even a brain at all... is it a human or just a clump of cells?
> 
> I say it's not a human!


Looks like you want to kill those with Alzheimer’s. You don’t have to keep proving you are repulsive, you have already provided more than enough evidence.

If we were to start killing those without a functioning brain you’d be first on the list. You should perhaps rethink your position?


----------



## GoBucks007

Crepitus said:


> Only if they're republican.


Yep... I have no problem with getting rid of Republicans... and  fortunately, COVID is eliminating these idiots... since they refuse to get vaccines.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Looks like you want to kill those with Alzheimer’s. You don’t have to keep proving you are repulsive, you have already provided mirathan enough evidence.


Alzheimer individuals do have a function brain... they just don't use it very well.

And that explains why you're on here blathering nonsense.


----------



## GoBucks007

I wonder what you religious fucktards believe about the Terry Schiavo case.









						Terri Schiavo case - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




I agree and applaud the husband who finally got the right to pull the plug on her!


----------



## Thunderbird

Thunderbird said:


> .





GoBucks007 said:


> We have laws that protect BORN ANIMALS AND BORN CHILDREN...
> 
> The unborn does not supersede the right of the mother, idiot.


So before birth unborn babies have no rights? An hour before birth it’s okay to torture an unborn baby to death? Is that what you are saying?


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> So before birth unborn babies have no rights? An hour before birth it’s okay to torture an unborn baby to death? Is that what you are saying?


It goes back to viablity, dumb ass...

Do you remember or is your Alzheimer's keeping you from thinking again????

A fetus up to 24 weeks is not viable...  so it can be aborted....


----------



## GoBucks007

BTW... is refusing to allow your child to get the COVID vaccine, attempted murder or is it child abuse?


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> It goes back to viablity, dumb ass...
> 
> Do you remember or is your Alzheimer's keeping you from thinking again????
> 
> A fetus up to 24 weeks is not viable...  so it can be aborted....


So post 24 weeks unborn babies do have rights? 

You have changed your mind?


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> So post 24 weeks unborn babies do have rights?
> 
> You have changed your mind?


No I didn't change my mind... I believe in legal abortion up to 24 weeks.

It's all about viability.

If it's viable... preserve it... 

If it's not viable... I see no problem aborting it.


----------



## GoBucks007

GoBucks007 said:


> No I didn't change my mind... I believe in legal abortion up to 24 weeks.
> 
> It's all about viability.
> 
> If it's viable... preserve it...
> 
> If it's not viable... I see no problem aborting it.


If it needs an umbilical cord to survive... then it's not viable...


----------



## EvilCat Breath

GoBucks007 said:


> According to this video... the brain doesn't show up until week 13 and the brain doesn't start functioning until week 26
> 
> So without a functioning brain... or even a brain at all... is it a human or just a clump of cells?
> 
> I say it's not a human!


If it is not human, what species is it?


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> No I didn't change my mind... I believe in legal abortion up to 24 weeks.
> 
> It's all about viability.
> 
> If it's viable... preserve it...
> 
> If it's not viable... I see no problem aborting it.


You did change your mind you halfwit lol. Earlier you said: “The unborn does not supersede the right of the mother”

I’m glad you changed your mind, your earlier position was sickening and cruel. Now you are prolife at least for the last trimester. You think late term unborn babies have rights. You are making progress.

By the way a 21 week old baby can survive on its own. So really you ought to favor rights for unborn babies post 21 weeks.

Now let’s turn to the viability standard which you support. The viability argument is strictly for idiots: Why the Pro-Choice ‘Viability’ Argument is Garbage

Newborns are completely helpless and require enormous sacrifices from the parents to survive. Newborns are in no way viable. If you believe only the viable have rights you really should start killing infants.


----------



## GoBucks007

Tipsycatlover said:


> If it is not human, what species is it?


It's a person but not a viable living human

Without a brain... it's just a body at that point


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> You did change your mind you halfwit lol. Earlier you said: “The unborn does not supersede the right of the mother”


Fucktard.. that's not what I meant...

Let me spell it out for you since you are so God damned stupid...

*The rights of an unborn that is not viable... do not supersede the rights of the mother.*

The Texas law will be defeated because at 6 weeks the fetus is not even viable.

The mother can abort a non-viable fetus it if she wants... there's no moral issue at all.

BTW, SCOTUS will be hearing an abortion law from (I think it is Louisiana) later this year.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Fucktard.. that's not what I meant...
> 
> Let me spell it out for you since you are so God damned stupid...
> 
> *The rights of an unborn that is not viable... do not supersede the rights of the mother.*
> 
> The Texas law will be defeated because at 6 weeks the fetus is not even viable.
> 
> The mother can abort a non-viable fetus it if she wants... there's no moral issue at all.
> 
> BTW, SCOTUS will be hearing an abortion law from (I think it is Louisiana) later this year.


It may not be what you meant but it’s what you wrote you imbecile lol.

Anyway I’m glad you condemn the thousands of late term abortions that are committed every year. Good for you. You are not as vicious and debased as I thought you were.

Given your brain injury and Alzheimer’s I know it’s hard for you to follow our discussion. I’ll give you another chance to defend your position.

Let’s turn to the viability standard which you support. The viability argument is strictly for idiots: Why the Pro-Choice ‘Viability’ Argument is Garbage

Newborns are completely helpless and require enormous sacrifices from the parents to survive. Newborns are in no way viable. If you believe only the viable have rights you really should start killing infants.


----------



## buttercup

GoBucks007 said:


> I wonder what you religious fucktards believe about the Terry Schiavo case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terri Schiavo case - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree and applaud the husband who finally got the right to pull the plug on her!



Repulsive, indeed. Thunderbird was absolutely right.  Evil and disgusting.


----------



## buttercup

Thunderbird said:


> By the way a 21 week old baby can survive on its own. So really you ought to favor rights for unborn babies post 21 weeks.



I brought that up to him as well, in post #54, and explained to him that premies are considered persons at a point where it's still legal to kill a baby of the exact same age, simply because of location.  He completely ignored that and just about everything else I said, only to repeat the same inane non-arguments over and over.


----------



## Turtlesoup

Confederate Soldier said:


> Who says it ain't a baby? You? A doctor? A politician?
> 
> If fossilized bacteria is life on mars, than a two inch long human-in-progress is life on earth. The fact of the matter is, that two inch long speck will eventually form itself completely. You are essentially snuffing out a future man or woman's life, denying them a chance at life, accomplishing hopes and dreams and having a family of their own.
> 
> I'm sorry, but to snuff out a life just because someone didn't do the basic gratuity of wearing a FUCKING CONDOM than shame on you. You will burn in hell whether you believe in it or not.


DOCTORS call it  FETUS, not baby.


----------



## buttercup

Thunderbird said:


> Let’s turn to the viability standard which you support. The viability argument is strictly for idiots: Why the Pro-Choice ‘Viability’ Argument is Garbage



Good article, I like the last sentence, to sum it all up: The viability argument is not only grossly flawed, but morally heinous.

I'm surprised that anyone would still try to use that as an argument, when it has been thoroughly debunked, as arbitrary, illogical and unscientific.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> Birth control is never 100% effective.
> 
> Also, you can't claim murder when something isn't viable.
> 
> If it can't survive without being attached to you... than it's no different than your arm or leg.  It's living but not a separate living thing.  If you remove your arm or leg or even your finger... it will die... same goes for a NON-VIABLE fetus.  Neither of these things are a person because they are not viable.
> 
> It also isn't right to force women to have babies they don't want either.
> 
> But you don't care about the lives of women do you???
> 
> You think women are brood mares, am I right?
> 
> As I said before and I will say it again... Anti-abortion is all about misogyny, racism and classism.


Women are as sacred to me as children are. Both should have top notch medical care. What abortionists don't tell you is that 25 million unsafe abortions take place every year, resulting in 7 million complications for the women involved. Abortion is the leading cause of death during pregnancy. Of those, 30,000 - 70,000 women die each year around the world due to these complications. Regular childbirth results in only 700 deaths a year on average, a far cry from 70,000.


Abortions are not only unsafe for the mother, but but deadly for the baby inside of her. Look at a sonogram one time. Watch it. Watch the baby inside move around, kick, open his or her hands, and bob its head. You can SEE that happen. My mother saw me do it. Your mother probably watched you do it as well. They let us live, instead of trying to kill you before you could even have a say.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

woodwork201 said:


> It is more than a *developing* human being.  It _*is*_ a human being having every single thing required to develop, in the appropriate environment, to the next stage of being a human.


Technically, humans never stop developing. We age and keep on going until we die.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

Turtlesoup said:


> DOCTORS call it  FETUS, not baby.


I call my Car, a heap of bolts. But no matter what I call it, it's still a car. Bad analogy, but same way for a baby. You can get all scientific and call it a fetus if you want, but it's still a baby.


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> Women are as sacred to me as children are. Both should have top notch medical care. What abortionists don't tell you is that 25 million unsafe abortions take place every year, resulting in 7 million complications for the women involved. Abortion is the leading cause of death during pregnancy. Of those, 30,000 - 70,000 women die each year around the world due to these complications. Regular childbirth results in only 700 deaths a year on average, a far cry from 70,000.


Legal abortion is far safer than child birth.

It's illegal abortions that are the problem.... and that's why *outlawing LEGAL abortion is a bad idea because women will turn to illegal abortions to end their pregnancies.*


----------



## GoBucks007




----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Same dumb pro-abortion arguments:


Ben Shapiro was wrong when he mentioned Alzheimers patients.  

A person with Alzheimer's has a functioning brain... but a fetus before 26 weeks doesn't even have brain function at all.

And up to 13 weeks a fetus doesn't even have a brain to function with!


----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> Legal abortion is far safer than child birth.
> 
> It's illegal abortions that are the problem.... and that's why *outlawing LEGAL abortion is a bad idea because women will turn to illegal abortions to end their pregnancies.*


Are they safe for the child? 

Nope.


----------



## GoBucks007

buttercup said:


> Repulsive, indeed. Thunderbird was absolutely right.  Evil and disgusting.


So you're saying Terry Schiavo should have been kept alive even though she had no brain function?

Wow... that goes against what medicine practices... when it comes to people who are brain dead.

When someone is brain dead, doctors pull the plug.


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> Are they safe for the child?
> 
> Nope.


The mother's rights to her body supersedes that of a non-viable fetus.

Also a fetus up to 13 weeks doesn't even have a brain... so is the mother aborting a human or aborting a body?

I say it's a body.

What defines a person? 

Is it only two arms, two legs, and 10 fingers? 

Or is it Two arms, two legs,  10 fingers *and* a brain that functions??


----------



## GoBucks007




----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> The mother's rights to her body supersedes that of a non-viable fetus.
> 
> Also a fetus up to 13 weeks doesn't even have a brain... so is the mother aborting a human or aborting a body?
> 
> I say it's a body.
> 
> What defines a person?
> 
> Is it only two arms, two legs, and 10 fingers?
> 
> Or is it Two arms, two legs,  10 fingers *and* a brain that functions??


It doesn't matter at what time you kill it, you are stopping the process in which life is created. You kill a life before it has a chance to stand on its own.


----------



## GoBucks007

Here's the real reason for the prolife movement....


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> You kill a life before it has a chance to stand on its own.


So you basically admit then it's not life...  if it can't stand on it's own??

I agree with you,  on that....

If it can't stand on its own, then it isn't life.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> So you basically admit then it's not life...  if it can't stand on it's own??
> 
> I agree with you,  on that....
> 
> If it can't stand on its own, then it isn't life.




A patient on life support cannot stand on its own, but it's a life. 

It is a life, shared with the mother until it is born. It has its own life, but it needs help from the mother. If you remove that help, you kill it.


----------



## GoBucks007

And really... does "all life matter" with "prolife" people???  

Nope! That's why prolife people support candidates that cut social programs.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Lysistrata said:


> Well, "religious liberty" is all the rage. We have a society in which all a person has to say is that they have a "belief" of any origin or "it's my religion" and they are excused from anything they don't want to do and can't be prevented from doing anything that they do want to do; laws and regulations that supposedly apply to all cannot hinder this. I don't know anything about the Satanist faith and I don't think that I have ever met an adherent, but I do know that religious beliefs are a matter for the individual and the government is prohibited both from determining whether some belief is or is not a religion and from establishing a religion, so this should be an interesting case.
> 
> This does not have anything to do with the Democratic Party, which simply is neutral on the subject of whether an individual decides to have an abortion or not.
> 
> Calling those who disagree with one's opinion vulgar names seems to be common practice of late. I'm surprised that you're surprised at it, especially being a member of USMB. Just yesterday, I read a post in which one USMB member called another a "fucking retard."
> 
> BTW: the individual pictured is the POTUS, who is a Christian, not Greaves.



Many of us in the Church of Pinochet believe that Communism can be prevented by helicopter rides


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> A patient on life support cannot stand on its own, but it's a life.
> 
> It is a life, shared with the mother until it is born. It has its own life, but it needs help from the mother. If you remove that help, you kill it.


But there's differences though when it comes to patients

A person who is brain dead, typically doctors pull the plug.

A person who is not... the doctors continue life support.

Likewise... a fetus without a brain... can we really say it is a person or just a body?


----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> But there's differences though when it comes to patients
> 
> A person who is brain dead, typically doctors pull the plug.
> 
> A person who is not... the doctors continue life support.
> 
> Likewise... a fetus without a brain... can we really say it is a person or just a body?


If a doctor pulls the plug on someone who is brain dead, it is because the determination is made that the situation is hopeless for the patient, the patient will not recover, and it will continue to lay comatose forever unless the plug is pulled.

On the other hand, a brain develops in the 5th week of pregnancy, and does not deteriorate, but keeps getting more advanced, more developed, more complex. It will not sit stagnate, but will only get more advanced as time goes on. Therefore, if you stop that process, you are killing something that will be able to live on its own without the help of the mother within a matter of several months. (not counting actually raising the kid)


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Newborns are completely helpless and require enormous sacrifices from the parents to survive. Newborns are in no way viable. If you believe only the viable have rights you really should start killing infants.


A newborn doesn't need parents... it just needs someone to feed it, change its diaper, etc.... but it is still viable whereas a fetus is not.

Viability refers to the ability to survive outside the womb... without having to use an umbilical cord and rely on someone else's body for survival.

When an umbilical cord is in use... the fetus is having the host (the mother) breathe for it and eat for it.

An infant doesn't require these things... that's why it no longer has an umbilical cord.


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> If a doctor pulls the plug on someone who is brain dead, it is because the determination is made that the situation is hopeless for the patient, the patient will not recover, and it will continue to lay comatose forever unless the plug is pulled.
> 
> On the other hand, a brain develops in the 5th week of pregnancy, and does not deteriorate, but keeps getting more advanced, more developed, more complex. It will not sit stagnate, but will only get more advanced as time goes on. Therefore, if you stop that process, you are killing something that will be able to live on its own without the help of the mother within a matter of several months. (not counting actually raising the kid)


But stopping the process is not really killing it because in the early stages it's not a fully functional human.

It goes back to the earlier debate... is an egg a chicken? 

No an egg is NOT a chick or chicken... but eventually it could be.


----------



## Confederate Soldier

GoBucks007 said:


> But stopping the process is not really killing it because in the early stages it's not a fully functional human.
> 
> It goes back to the earlier debate... is an egg a chicken?
> 
> No an egg is NOT a chick or chicken... but eventually it could be.




It's not _really_ killing it? Really?

Look bud, you are not going to convince me no matter what argument you throw out there. I won't convince you likewise. I say we both virtually shake hands and walk off. nothing much getting accomplished here other than banging heads.


----------



## GoBucks007

If we're going to talk about punishing women for abortion ... shouldn't we be punishing men too??

I think so... after all... it takes BOTH a man and a woman to make fetus!


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> It's not _really_ killing it? Really?
> 
> Look bud, you are not going to convince me no matter what argument you throw out there. I won't convince you likewise. I say we both virtually shake hands and walk off. nothing much getting accomplished here other than banging heads.


Well, you're not going to convince me that we should be forcing women to have a baby just because they got pregnant.

A woman has a FUNDAMENTAL right to determine how long something grows in her uterus.


----------



## GoBucks007

Confederate Soldier said:


> On the other hand, a brain develops in the 5th week of pregnancy


At the 5th week of pregnancy the fetus is only the 3 mm in size.... about the size of a sesame seed.

That's not viable nor does it doesn't have brain function.

I see no moral issue with aborting it.

BTW, fetuses cannot feel pain before 20 weeks. 

No pain  = no consciousness = no person at that point in its development.

If no person exists, then there's nothing wrong with abortion.


----------



## Lysistrata

CrusaderFrank said:


> Many of us in the Church of Pinochet believe that Communism can be prevented by helicopter rides


Well, everybody makes it up as they go along. Apparently, you have some religious attachment to Pinochet. Are you allowed to eat ice cream?


----------



## CrusaderFrank

GoBucks007 said:


> So you're saying Terry Schiavo should have been kept alive even though she had no brain function?
> 
> Wow... that goes against what medicine practices... when it comes to people who are brain dead.
> 
> When someone is brain dead, doctors pull the plug.



Except if they're Joe Biden


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Lysistrata said:


> Well, everybody makes it up as they go along. Apparently, you have some religious attachment to Pinochet. Are you allowed to eat ice cream?



Sorbet, but only the Talenti Coconut


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> A newborn doesn't need parents... it just needs someone to feed it, change its diaper, etc.... but it is still viable whereas a fetus is not.
> 
> Viability refers to the ability to survive outside the womb... without having to use an umbilical cord and rely on someone else's body for survival.
> 
> When an umbilical cord is in use... the fetus is having the host (the mother) breathe for it and eat for it.
> 
> An infant doesn't require these things... that's why it no longer has an umbilical cord.


Of course you can rely on someone for survival without involving an umbilical cord. If someone is stripped of rights for being dependent than an authoritarian government would have every right to kill off those deemed dependent.

You’d have to be an idiot or truly loathsome to defend the viability argument.


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Well, you're not going to convince me that we should be forcing women to have a baby just because they got pregnant.
> 
> A woman has a FUNDAMENTAL right to determine how long something grows in her uterus.


Wow.

You said you were opposed to late term abortions so you rejected the argument you are now making! 

Try to make a little sense.


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> Of course you can rely on someone for survival without involving an umbilical cord. If someone is stripped of rights for being dependent than an authoritarian government would have every right to kill off those deemed dependent.
> 
> You’d have to be an idiot or truly loathsome to defend the viability argument.


People have always had differing views surrounding abortion dumbass.  Read this:





__





						BBC - Ethics - Abortion: When is the foetus 'alive'?
					

This article covers a central point in the abortion debate, which is: when does foetus become sufficiently human to have the right to life?




					www.bbc.co.uk
				




The problem lies with the fact that you Evangelical retards want to insist your views are supreme.... and that's what's the problem.

You want to FORCE your views on other people... but that's why so many people push back *and will continue to push back against you idiots.*

Here's a piece of advice for you Evangelical retards:

*If you don't want an abortion...don't have one, but don't tell other people what to do!!!!! *


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> Here's the real reason for the prolife movement....
> 
> View attachment 536936


Only a racist could love abortion!


----------



## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> People have always had differing views surrounding abortion dumbass.  Read this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - Ethics - Abortion: When is the foetus 'alive'?
> 
> 
> This article covers a central point in the abortion debate, which is: when does foetus become sufficiently human to have the right to life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem lies with the fact that you Evangelical retards want to insist your views are supreme.... and that's what's the problem.
> 
> You want to FORCE your views on other people... but that's why so many people push back *and will continue to push back against you idiots.*
> 
> Here's a piece of advice for you Evangelical retards:
> 
> *If you don't want an abortion...don't have one, but don't tell other people what to do!!!!! *


You are so dumb you just ignore our discussion and engage in name calling.

I guess that means you can’t answer my objections. Why else would you run from my questions?

You yourself tell people what to do when you oppose late term abortion or favor laws against animal cruelty!

Do you think an authoritarian government has the right to murder people deemed dependent?


----------



## bodecea

Thunderbird said:


> Please stop dehumanizing small vulnerable  human life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People will think you are some kind of Nazi.


If we can FORCE women to keep nurturing a fetus before it's viable because it's human life, we can FORCE people to donate to the transplant list for people who need a transplant to live.   It's human life.


----------



## bodecea

Thunderbird said:


> Only a racist could love abortion!


Who is forcing African American women to get abortions?


----------



## Thunderbird

bodecea said:


> If we can FORCE women to keep nurturing a fetus before it's viable because it's human life, we can FORCE people to donate to the transplant list for people who need a transplant to live.   It's human life.


Should we force people to get the covid vaccine? Get other vaccinations? Wear masks?


----------



## Thunderbird

bodecea said:


> Who is forcing African American women to get abortions?


Do poor people really have many options? The one right our elites are eager to offer the poor is the right to kill their children.

If you really care about choice you don’t lie:





						Medical Misinformation |  Live Action
					






					www.liveaction.org


----------



## GoBucks007

Thunderbird said:


> You are so dumb you just ignore our discussion and engage in name calling.
> 
> I guess that means you can’t answer my objections. Why else would you run from my questions?
> 
> You yourself tell people what to do when you oppose late term abortion or favor laws against animal cruelty!
> 
> Do you think an authoritarian government has the right to murder people deemed dependent?


You keep spewing the same morality bullshit and twisting things around with your what-about-ism.

You have no argument to make.... and you still haven't answered any of my questions. For example... why don't we count embryos in the census or view them as dependents for tax purposes??

Are you going to answer those questions or are you going to continually dodge them... *BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO GOOD ANSWERS????.*

You're just another blathering right wing, knuckle dragging retard that wants to force your views on everyone.

*Take your Evangelical Sharia Taliban crap and shove it where the sun doesn't shine...*

Your views are irrelevant...  but I don't really care... because the Texas bill will get overturned as Roe V. Wade is settled law!! 

And that's all that matters to me!


----------



## GoBucks007

bodecea said:


> If we can FORCE women to keep nurturing a fetus before it's viable because it's human life, we can FORCE people to donate to the transplant list for people who need a transplant to live.   It's human life.


Yep I agree... if we're going to force women to be incubators what's to stop people from forcing others to involuntarily donate their organs??

Also I see abortion as morally good... and here's why:

Worldwide 50 million abortions are performed every year.... Just imagine how many more people we would be adding to the world and NEGATIVELY impacting our environment if we force those women to stay pregnant and give birth?

Birth control and abortion.. they're both very good things for the environment IMHO.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Yep... I have no problem with getting rid of Republicans... and  fortunately, COVID is eliminating these idiots... since they refuse to get vaccines.


Actually, the largest demographics not getting vaccinated are blacks.  Scroll down to Figure 3.









						Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity
					

KFF is collecting and analyzing data on COVID-19 vaccinations by race/ethnicity to gain increased insight who is receiving the vaccine and whether some groups are facing disparities in vaccination.




					www.kff.org
				




Now, I wonder why black Americans don't trust the Government to give them an injection?

Yes, once again, the Democrats are experimenting on Americans, forcing them to inject unapproved medications against their will.  Once again, the Democrats are hurting blacks for their own political gain.  What a bunch of racists the Democrats are.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> No I didn't change my mind... I believe in legal abortion up to 24 weeks.
> 
> It's all about viability.
> 
> If it's viable... preserve it...
> 
> If it's not viable... I see no problem aborting it.



Your claim has been that they are not a human until they breathe air.  What a lying, hypocritical, POS.


----------



## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> If it needs an umbilical cord to survive... then it's not viable...



You're really all over the place aren't you?  Did the baby no longer need an umbilical cord at 26 weeks?  Your bullshit doesn't hold up under scrutiny and that's why you're changing your view on a post-by-post basis.


----------



## woodwork201

Thunderbird said:


> You did change your mind you halfwit lol. Earlier you said: “The unborn does not supersede the right of the mother”
> 
> I’m glad you changed your mind, your earlier position was sickening and cruel. Now you are prolife at least for the last trimester. You think late term unborn babies have rights. You are making progress.
> 
> By the way a 21 week old baby can survive on its own. So really you ought to favor rights for unborn babies post 21 weeks.
> 
> Now let’s turn to the viability standard which you support. The viability argument is strictly for idiots: Why the Pro-Choice ‘Viability’ Argument is Garbage
> 
> Newborns are completely helpless and require enormous sacrifices from the parents to survive. Newborns are in no way viable. If you believe only the viable have rights you really should start killing infants.



The Democrats have already said that they support aborting newborn babies.  Set them on the table and have a discussion with the mother about whether to give any care or support to the newborn baby.


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## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> It's a person but not a viable living human
> 
> Without a brain... it's just a body at that point


A non-human person.  Your arguments are really crumbling, aren't they?


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## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Fucktard.. that's not what I meant...
> 
> Let me spell it out for you since you are so God damned stupid...
> 
> *The rights of an unborn that is not viable... do not supersede the rights of the mother.*
> 
> The Texas law will be defeated because at 6 weeks the fetus is not even viable.
> 
> The mother can abort a non-viable fetus it if she wants... there's no moral issue at all.
> 
> BTW, SCOTUS will be hearing an abortion law from (I think it is Louisiana) later this year.



It's what you meant.  You've said it over and over again in this and other threads: it's not a human being until it breathes air or until it's born.

You support sticking scissors into the spine of a baby's neck after the head is out of the vagina because, according to law, it's still not born.


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## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> View attachment 536934


I only wish back alley abortions were far more deadly to the mother than they are.


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## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> If we're going to talk about punishing women for abortion ... shouldn't we be punishing men too??
> 
> I think so... after all... it takes BOTH a man and a woman to make fetus!
> 
> View attachment 536944



Fathers get no say in the choice to kill their baby.


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## woodwork201

GoBucks007 said:


> Yep I agree... if we're going to force women to be incubators what's to stop people from forcing others to involuntarily donate their organs??
> 
> Also I see abortion as morally good... and here's why:
> 
> Worldwide 50 million abortions are performed every year.... Just imagine how many more people we would be adding to the world and NEGATIVELY impacting our environment if we force those women to stay pregnant and give birth?
> 
> Birth control and abortion.. they're both very good things for the environment IMHO.



And that sums it up with the extreme leftists... Kill off as many undesirables as possible to reduce the planet to just the elite and their servants.


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## Gabe Lackmann

People are actually Satanists? Like pray to Satan? Really?

Isn't that like watching reruns of the Super Bowl in hopes that one day the losing team finally wins? 

I mean, if you worship Satan you know the script.

Especially now when the shit is playing out right in front of our faces. 

What a bunch of dildos.

I wish I knew one so I could tell him/her how much of dick bag they are.


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## ThunderKiss1965

Lysistrata said:


> You are out of your mind. Black people make their own decisions, as do people of other races. It sounds like you believe that black people are incompetent to think for themselves.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the Democratic Party (please learn grammar, it's not the "Democrat Party").
> 
> If you think that anyone loves abortion, you are an idiot. No one prefers having an invasive surgical procedure to using tools to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Explain why the republicans are so against giving people a comprehensive and accurate sex education and access to contraception. Why do republicans want to set people up to have an unwanted pregnancy and then bitch about abortion? It appears that they have an evil motive.


The Black community makes up 14% of the population in the US but is responsible for 38% of abortions. The Democratic Party is racist. 

"We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population..."
Margret Sanger founder of Planned Parenthood


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## Lysistrata

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> The Black community makes up 14% of the population in the US but is responsible for 38% of abortions. The Democratic Party is racist.
> 
> "We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population..."
> Margret Sanger founder of Planned Parenthood


What you are saying is meaningless in the modern age. Black women are perfectly capable of deciding what they want to do. Planned Parenthood helped me (a white person) and countless others at my predominantly white and Catholic college avoid unwanted pregnancies (no abortions!). PP most likely has helped women of other races to avoid pregnancies that they don't want.

What the hell is it that you are trying to do? PP makes the existing technology to avoid pregnancy available to all. Just what is your beef? You are up to something, and it is evil.

Women of every race will decide if and when we want to have a baby. We own it, sucker.


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## ThunderKiss1965

Lysistrata said:


> What you are saying is meaningless in the modern age. Black women are perfectly capable of deciding what they want to do. Planned Parenthood helped me (a white person) and countless others at my predominantly white and Catholic college avoid unwanted pregnancies (no abortions!). PP most likely has helped women of other races to avoid pregnancies that they don't want.
> 
> What the hell is it that you are trying to do? PP makes the existing technology to avoid pregnancy available to all. Just what is your beef? You are up to something, and it is evil.
> 
> Women of every race will decide if and when we want to have a baby. We own it, sucker.


You say the Black community is capable of deciding things for themselves but I bet money your one of those idiots who loath Black Conservatives and against voter ID laws because you think they are racist. The left claims they support the Black community but only if they have certain political leanings.  Like all other lefty loons your a hypocrite.

I'm not against contraceptives but you can't force religious institutions or the tax payer to provide them because you refuse to take responsibility for your own actions and Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill.


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## Lysistrata

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> You say the Black community is capable of deciding things for themselves but I bet money your one of those idiots who loath Black Conservatives and against voter ID laws because you think they are racist. The left claims they support the Black community but only if they have certain political leanings.  Like all other lefty loons your a hypocrite.
> 
> I'm not against contraceptives but you can't force religious institutions or the tax payer to provide them because you refuse to take responsibility for your own actions and Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill.



I do not discriminate by race. I think that black conservatives are as dumb as their white counterparts. These new voting laws are entirely unnecessary and are designed to keep Americans from voting. I think that all eligible voters should vote and be encouraged to do so. These voting restrictions are a dirty ploy by people who are extremely unpatriotic.

People are individuals, no matter what their skin tone, and they think as individuals. Every human lives in their own skin. A woman of African background is exactly the same as you. Moreover, you write as if I have to share your beliefs and political views just because I am Caucasian.

People who use contraceptives are being responsible. They are taking reasonable precautions. There is no such thing as an "abortion mill." Even if there were, Planned Parenthood wouldn't be one. PP has been the leader in the area of PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancies that lead to abortion. You seem to want people who don't want to be pregnant to get pregnant. Please explain this. It seems to come out of some cult belief about sex.


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## Thunderbird

GoBucks007 said:


> You keep spewing the same morality bullshit and twisting things around with your what-about-ism.
> 
> You have no argument to make.... and you still haven't answered any of my questions. For example... why don't we count embryos in the census or view them as dependents for tax purposes??
> 
> Are you going to answer those questions or are you going to continually dodge them... *BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO GOOD ANSWERS????.*
> 
> You're just another blathering right wing, knuckle dragging retard that wants to force your views on everyone.
> 
> *Take your Evangelical Sharia Taliban crap and shove it where the sun doesn't shine...*
> 
> Your views are irrelevant...  but I don't really care... because the Texas bill will get overturned as Roe V. Wade is settled law!!
> 
> And that's all that matters to me!


Looks like you’ve exposed yourself as a slimy authoritarian tool. Like the Nazis and Communists you want to murder vulnerable people not considered useful to the state.

Of course you’re too much of a moron and a pinhead to offer much help to such authoritarian regimes, but you could aspire to become their useful idiot.

Another question for you to ignore: why do you hate black people so much? You love the abortion industry which has decimated the black community. Why don’t you slither back under your rock you filthy racist.


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## Lysistrata

Thunderbird said:


> Looks like you’ve exposed yourself as a slimy authoritarian tool. Like the Nazis and Communists you want to murder vulnerable people not considered useful to the state.
> 
> Of course you’re too much of a moron and a pinhead to offer much help to such authoritarian regimes, but you could aspire to become their useful idiot.
> 
> Another question for you to ignore: why do you hate black people so much? You love the abortion industry which has decimated the black community. Why don’t you slither back under your rock you filthy racist.


What is "the abortion industry"? How has the availability of abortion "decimated the black community"? Is there a difference between how people make personal decisions according to the race that they are? How do you know this?


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## Colin norris

Does it? 
I don't see any relevance at all. 
But it is Texas.  The home of ratbag republicans . 

But it's  a long desperate stretch to link that to anything democratic. Give up son.


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## Calypso Jones

Your democrat masters know that it is a human life.    Nancy Pelousy would not abort her own.  She just wants it really accessible for you.  Why is that?    Your political elites, your hollywood slebs, most of them, want those babies and value those babies but they want to make abortion available to you at taxpayer expense.  Why?


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## LuckyDuck

Acceptable....only to their own congregation, that way it keeps the numbers down.


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## HenryBHough

Never forget:

Not all Satanists are Democrats.

But all Democrats are Santanists.

Some are just in denial.


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## woodwork201

Lysistrata said:


> What is "the abortion industry"? How has the availability of abortion "decimated the black community"? Is there a difference between how people make personal decisions according to the race that they are? How do you know this?



The abortion industry are those organizations performing abortions for profit - if not for their organization bottom lines it is certainly profitable for their highly paid employees along with the non-monetary benefits it provides for their social agendas.  It also includes organizations such as Planned Parenthood who are in the for-profit business of selling baby parts.

The availability of abortions has decimated the black community by reducing their numbers by over 20 million since 1973.

There is a difference in how many black women choose abortion; they represent 13% of the female population but 36% of abortion.  There is definitely a racial difference.  Of course this is supported by the fact that 86% of abortion clinics in the top 25 counties for abortions are in or within walking distance of minority communities.









						Research Shows Planned Parenthood Expands Targeting Minorities as it Spurns Racist Founder
					

New research shows that Planned Parenthood has located a stunning 86 percent of its abortion facilities in or near minority neighborhoods in the 25 U.S. counties with the most abortions. These




					townhall.com
				




Some will, because they've done it in the past, suggest that Planned Parenthood provides non-abortion necessary medical care in minority communities.  I'll counter that Thomas Jefferson provided food and housing to over 600 African-Americans.  Shouldn't we celebrate the good he did and, considering that good, overlook the evil?


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## initforme

So why are we not working harder to push contraception harder?   We do a poor job of encouraging young women not to get pregnant if there is even the slightest doubt about wanting kids.


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## initforme

A lower conceptions rate, much lower, would benefit.


----------



## woodwork201

initforme said:


> So why are we not working harder to push contraception harder?   We do a poor job of encouraging young women not to get pregnant if there is even the slightest doubt about wanting kids.



Contraceptives are not a reliable solution.  My own wife was on birth control when she got pregnant with two of our children.  The difference is, though, that she was my wife.  We were committed to each other and wanted to have and raise a family - which is the purpose of marriage and adult relationships.

I don't care if people get married or don't get married but having sex is an adult responsibility.  You have to approach it with an understanding that sex makes babies and if you make a baby then both parents have an inescapable responsibility to provide a safe, nurturing, two-parent home to the child that may result from the act.  So, you meet a woman at a bar, have a one-night-stand, she gets pregnant, then commit to a relationship that provides for the needs of the child - whether or not you get a church or state piece of paper.


----------



## emilynghiem

Calypso Jones said:


> What do they plan on doing with the Ritual abortion.
> 
> Throw it on the Barbee?











						New Louisiana Abortion Law Requires Fetuses Be Given Jazz Funeral March Through The French Quarter
					

BATON ROUGE, LA—Following on the heels of controversial abortion laws enacted by state legislatures across the South, Louisiana lawmakers passed a resolution this week that requires aborted fetuses to be given a full jazz funeral procession through the French Quarter. “While we recognize that...




					www.theonion.com


----------



## Calypso Jones

Well it's something isn't it.


----------



## Iamartiewhitefox

You Satanists are as evil as Catholic leaders who engage in baby and child sacrifices in the vatican, in rituals, drinking the blood of babies. Be better than the Catholic church, that you are against.


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## Iamartiewhitefox

Calypso Jones said:


> View attachment 536141


Money makes people to abort. God or mammon. Mammon makes people to value it.  God being chosen would make people to care about God's children. A baby is one of God's children. It is a gift. What God gave to us are gifts. God wants us to be like our Father. Money makes people to be like Satan. Satan invented money.


----------

