# To Declaw or not declaw



## JoeB131

that is the question.  

Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years. 

I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.   

this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc. 

I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.


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## Sunshine

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.



Start with claw covers:

Soft Claws Natural Kitten Feline <5LB Cat Nail Caps

If that doesn't work get kitty nail clippers.  Over time you can clip them down so they are like dog claws.  But it takes time fore the vein in the claw to retract. And your cat will hate you.

As to liability.  My cat bites.  Just play biting.  She never got out of that kitten play thing.  I tell EVERYONE who comes to my house that my cat bites.  They put their hands down there anyway and when she bits them, I just say, 'Told ya.'  They all think they have a _way_ with animals.  ROFL.


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## Provocateur

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.



Why reluctant?  Are you going to even keep the animal for over 10 years if it ruins every piece of furniture?

Declaw.


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## RadiomanATL

Get a dog.


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## JoeB131

RadiomanATL said:


> Get a dog.



With my work schedule, I don't have time to be fair to a dog.   I have time to be fair to a cat since a cat could care less if you live or die.  Also, my condo association doesn't allow dogs and they've evicted owners for keeping them.


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## JoeB131

Sunshine said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Start with claw covers:
> 
> Soft Claws Natural Kitten Feline <5LB Cat Nail Caps
> 
> If that doesn't work get kitty nail clippers.  Over time you can clip them down so they are like dog claws.  But it takes time fore the vein in the claw to retract. And your cat will hate you.
> 
> As to liability.  My cat bites.  Just play biting.  She never got out of that kitten play thing.  I tell EVERYONE who comes to my house that my cat bites.  They put their hands down there anyway and when she bits them, I just say, 'Told ya.'  They all think they have a _way_ with animals.  ROFL.
Click to expand...


I've tried the nail clippers. It throws a fit if I even pick them up.  

This cat is relatively young compared to the last one, so it still has some kitty issues. Also, the previous owners abandoned her at a shelter and she was at the shelter for four months before I got her.  They kept her in the cage most of the time because she didn't get along with other cats.  So I'm actually dealing with some psychological issues. 

Maybe I need  kitty shrink..

But thanks for the advice on claw covers, I'll give that a go.


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## Provocateur

JoeB131 said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get a dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With my work schedule, I don't have time to be fair to a dog.   I have time to be fair to a cat since a cat could care less if you live or die.  Also, my condo association doesn't allow dogs and they've evicted owners for keeping them.
Click to expand...


Do you ever want to own a nice piece of furniture?  To some, I suppose it doesn't matter.


Get rid of the claws or get rid of the cat.  Seems pretty simple to me.


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## saveliberty

If the cat will be outdoors at all, keep the claws.  If strictly indoors, Daisy makes a better pet without.


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## WorldWatcher

>


You could always go with aversion therapy.




Keep a tazer handy for when you catch the cat scratching furniture.  


>>>>


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## MikeK

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.


That sounds like a cat who either _must_ be declawed, which I regard as a last resort measure, or be turned over to a shelter.  

I've had several cats, every one of which I was able to train.  

Presuming you have a scratching post or two, every time the cat uses its claws other than on the post (or scratching pad) you must grab it by the scruff, scold it angrily, slap at its paws, give it a good swat on the rump and take it right to the post and hold it there until it gets the idea.  

Also, use cat treats as an inducement.  Cats look forward to getting a treat.  Whenever you see the cat using the scratching post, give it a treat.  Whenever it uses its claws otherwise, grab it by the scruff, hold the treat package to its nose, angrily shout, "NO!", take the package away and it gets no treat all day after that (in addition to a good swat on the rump.)  

Cats are smart and they catch on fast.  If yours is one of the obstinate and willful ones (some are) I'm afraid you must either declaw or say goodbye.  Because a cat can do a lot of damage if not constrained from misusing its weapons.


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## syrenn

First question. 

Is this cat EVER going to get outside? If there is even the _slightest _chance it will get outside.... do NOT declaw. 

That being said. I have no issues with declawing. The sooner you do it the better for the cat.


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## AquaAthena

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.



Joe,_ I beg you NOT to mutilate your _trusting feline by having her declawed. I regret 100% having had my Inki's claws removed. He was young; I had expensive furniture. I thought it the sensible thing to do because he seemed to like being indoors, rather than out. However, after having him tortured, he soon decided to become an outdoor cat....couldn't keep him in regardless how hard I tried, and sooner than later, he was indefensible, and the last little little "meow" I heard from him this ONE night, only, and decided not to get up for the 10th time and let him in that day, was his undoing. I never saw him again, but heard a strange, loud and errie scream and he was gone forever.  Something had taken him. He had no front claws with which to climb all the trees around the house. I had rendered him, disabled. I hate to think of this but had to write. I have not, and will never do that again, with my beautiful cats. I didn't know any better at the time. I was heartbroken and felt terrible guilt for a long time. Never, ever, again. 

The way I have since used to keep them disciplined and living almost as a human, is by squirting them with a water bottle, every time they are doing something you don't want them to. A stern, use of their name, accompanied with a strong NO and a squirt, and they very quickly learn to knock it off. It doesn't take long before you can just say their name and HOLD the bottle up, so they can see it, and they stop doing what they were. Then soon enough, they stop all the bad habits, w/o use of the water bottle. They are smart and they hate those squirts, that do not hurt nor harm them. 

Cats also *do* need to shed their nail sheaths, and a cat post with the certain type of rope, called Sissel, has been the only one my cats will use with regularity. They keep their claws sharpened on them. My cat is 8 lbs. and the shortest post is fine for her, without tipping over. A larger cat would need a taller one. I order them from Amazon. 

Here is an excellent article relative to the declaw process and what you are really doing to a beautiful healthy animal. This is a snip from the article: *Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cat's "toes". *

DECLAWING: What You Need to Know


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## Kooshdakhaa

Provocateur said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get a dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With my work schedule, I don't have time to be fair to a dog.   I have time to be fair to a cat since a cat could care less if you live or die.  Also, my condo association doesn't allow dogs and they've evicted owners for keeping them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you ever want to own a nice piece of furniture?  To some, I suppose it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> Get rid of the claws or get rid of the cat.  Seems pretty simple to me.
Click to expand...


Why should anyone take advice from you since you obviously have  no feelings whatsoever about animals?


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## Kooshdakhaa

NOOOOOOooooooo!!!!! Do not declaw!!!  What AquaAthena said!!!!

Declawing a cat is not just removal of the claws.  In order to get rid of the claws they have to amputate the last join of the cat's toes, like Aqua said.  It is mutilation and can cause various physical problems for the cat because their toes are used for balance, that sort of thing.  Cats who are declawed often bite more.

If you don't want an animal with claws you shouldn't have gotten a cat.  You should get a turtle or something, seriously.

Get some scratching posts.

As for trimming the claws, it's much easier to trim a cat's claws than to trim a dog's toenails, I'll tell you that.  I have five dogs and six cats.  I trim all of their nails/claws.  The cats are much easier.  Have your vet show you how to do it!  Read up on it.

I had two cats declawed once.  There's not a lot I regret in my life, but I regret that.  It is one of the things that will be haunting me on my death bed.

Don't do it.  Cats are supposed to have claws.


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## California Girl

My cat had an 'furniture issue', she liked to lie on her back and pull herself along using my couch to drag herself. Stupid cat. 

I used double sided tape for a month or so - until she got the message that, sure it was cute, but it was not funny. She learned. I took the tape off. Job done.


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## strollingbones

dont declaw...use claw covers or simply live with it.....you can cut their claws....but its like teaching a pig to sing....except the cats fight back....next time try to adopt an adult cat that has already been declawed.....get scratching posts and put cat nip on it


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## Sunshine

AquaAthena said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe,_ I beg you NOT to mutilate your _trusting feline by having her declawed. I regret 100% having had my Inki's claws removed. He was young; I had expensive furniture. I thought it the sensible thing to do because he seemed to like being indoors, rather than out. However, after having him tortured, he soon decided to become an outdoor cat....couldn't keep him in regardless how hard I tried, and sooner than later, he was indefensible, and the last little little "meow" I heard from him this ONE night, only, and decided not to get up for the 10th time and let him in that day, was his undoing. I never saw him again, but heard a strange, loud and errie scream and he was gone forever.  Something had taken him. He had no front claws with which to climb all the trees around the house. I had rendered him, disabled. I hate to think of this but had to write. I have not, and will never do that again, with my beautiful cats. I didn't know any better at the time. I was heartbroken and felt terrible guilt for a long time. Never, ever, again.
> 
> The way I have since used to keep them disciplined and living almost as a human, is by squirting them with a water bottle, every time they are doing something you don't want them to. A stern, use of their name, accompanied with a strong NO and a squirt, and they very quickly learn to knock it off. It doesn't take long before you can just say their name and HOLD the bottle up, so they can see it, and they stop doing what they were. Then soon enough, they stop all the bad habits, w/o use of the water bottle. They are smart and they hate those squirts, that do not hurt nor harm them.
> 
> Cats also *do* need to shed their nail sheaths, and a cat post with the certain type of rope, called Sissel, has been the only one my cats will use with regularity. They keep their claws sharpened on them. My cat is 8 lbs. and the shortest post is fine for her, without tipping over. A larger cat would need a taller one. I order them from Amazon.
> 
> Here is an excellent article relative to the declaw process and what you are really doing to a beautiful healthy animal. This is a snip from the article: *Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cat's "toes". *
> 
> DECLAWING: What You Need to Know
Click to expand...


That is not always the case.  I had a cat declawed in TN and all they did was cut the claw back into the 'quick.'  After a month or two the remainder of the claw fell off.

When I moved back here I had my new cat declawed thinking it would be done that way, but this vet was more invasive.  However, they didn't amputate toes.  The method used here took her longer to recover and I believe was more painful, but she walks and jumps just fine.  She never goes out so protection against varmits is not an issue.


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## Sallow

Do Not Declaw!

Think of it as cutting off part of your finger. It's cruel.

My cat does just fine with scratching posts.


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## saveliberty

If I can clip the nails of a 22 lbs., three foot long and 15" inches high at the shoulder cat.  You can do the same.  That cat went outside some times.  The neighborhood dogs were not happy.  Wimps.


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## Truthmatters

California Girl said:


> My cat had an 'furniture issue', she liked to lie on her back and pull herself along using my couch to drag herself. Stupid cat.
> 
> I used double sided tape for a month or so - until she got the message that, sure it was cute, but it was not funny. She learned. I took the tape off. Job done.



Imagine my shock wehn I clicked on your rep to rep you and it said.

You wil have to spread some reputation arround before you can give Californiagirl more.

Great idea!


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## bigrebnc1775

A cat should never be declawed claws are it's only defense and only way to escape if it ever got access to outside.


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## bigrebnc1775

strollingbones said:


> dont declaw...use claw covers or simply live with it.....you can cut their claws....but its like teaching a pig to sing....except the cats fight back....next time try to adopt an adult cat that has already been declawed.....get scratching posts and put cat nip on it



good adivce


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## bigrebnc1775

Sunshine said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe,_ I beg you NOT to mutilate your _trusting feline by having her declawed. I regret 100% having had my Inki's claws removed. He was young; I had expensive furniture. I thought it the sensible thing to do because he seemed to like being indoors, rather than out. However, after having him tortured, he soon decided to become an outdoor cat....couldn't keep him in regardless how hard I tried, and sooner than later, he was indefensible, and the last little little "meow" I heard from him this ONE night, only, and decided not to get up for the 10th time and let him in that day, was his undoing. I never saw him again, but heard a strange, loud and errie scream and he was gone forever.  Something had taken him. He had no front claws with which to climb all the trees around the house. I had rendered him, disabled. I hate to think of this but had to write. I have not, and will never do that again, with my beautiful cats. I didn't know any better at the time. I was heartbroken and felt terrible guilt for a long time. Never, ever, again.
> 
> The way I have since used to keep them disciplined and living almost as a human, is by squirting them with a water bottle, every time they are doing something you don't want them to. A stern, use of their name, accompanied with a strong NO and a squirt, and they very quickly learn to knock it off. It doesn't take long before you can just say their name and HOLD the bottle up, so they can see it, and they stop doing what they were. Then soon enough, they stop all the bad habits, w/o use of the water bottle. They are smart and they hate those squirts, that do not hurt nor harm them.
> 
> Cats also *do* need to shed their nail sheaths, and a cat post with the certain type of rope, called Sissel, has been the only one my cats will use with regularity. They keep their claws sharpened on them. My cat is 8 lbs. and the shortest post is fine for her, without tipping over. A larger cat would need a taller one. I order them from Amazon.
> 
> Here is an excellent article relative to the declaw process and what you are really doing to a beautiful healthy animal. This is a snip from the article: *Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cat's "toes". *
> 
> DECLAWING: What You Need to Know
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is not always the case.  I had a cat declawed in TN and all they did was cut the claw back into the 'quick.'  After a month or two the remainder of the claw fell off.
> 
> When I moved back here I had my new cat declawed thinking it would be done that way, but this vet was more invasive.  However, they didn't amputate toes.  The method used here took her longer to recover and I believe was more painful, but she walks and jumps just fine.  She never goes out so protection against varmits is not an issue.
Click to expand...


My cat is an inside cat but sometimes he does find his way to the great outdoors. If the doors aren't latched and you aren't quick coming in he will go outside.


----------



## bigrebnc1775

AquaAthena said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe,_ I beg you NOT to mutilate your _trusting feline by having her declawed. I regret 100% having had my Inki's claws removed. He was young; I had expensive furniture. I thought it the sensible thing to do because he seemed to like being indoors, rather than out. However, after having him tortured, he soon decided to become an outdoor cat....couldn't keep him in regardless how hard I tried, and sooner than later, he was indefensible, and the last little little "meow" I heard from him this ONE night, only, and decided not to get up for the 10th time and let him in that day, was his undoing. I never saw him again, but heard a strange, loud and errie scream and he was gone forever.  Something had taken him. He had no front claws with which to climb all the trees around the house. I had rendered him, disabled. I hate to think of this but had to write. I have not, and will never do that again, with my beautiful cats. I didn't know any better at the time. I was heartbroken and felt terrible guilt for a long time. Never, ever, again.
> 
> The way I have since used to keep them disciplined and living almost as a human, is by squirting them with a water bottle, every time they are doing something you don't want them to. A stern, use of their name, accompanied with a strong NO and a squirt, and they very quickly learn to knock it off. It doesn't take long before you can just say their name and HOLD the bottle up, so they can see it, and they stop doing what they were. Then soon enough, they stop all the bad habits, w/o use of the water bottle. They are smart and they hate those squirts, that do not hurt nor harm them.
> 
> Cats also *do* need to shed their nail sheaths, and a cat post with the certain type of rope, called Sissel, has been the only one my cats will use with regularity. They keep their claws sharpened on them. My cat is 8 lbs. and the shortest post is fine for her, without tipping over. A larger cat would need a taller one. I order them from Amazon.
> 
> Here is an excellent article relative to the declaw process and what you are really doing to a beautiful healthy animal. This is a snip from the article: *Declawing is actually an amputation of the last joint of your cat's "toes". *
> 
> DECLAWING: What You Need to Know
Click to expand...


Exactly


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## bigrebnc1775

Just a thought a cats claws is in a way his second amendment. Do you want to disarm him?


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## percysunshine

Go to the pet store and buy a dozen white mice.

Turn them loose in your condo.

The cat will get bored with the furniture. No more problem.


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## Ringel05

My wife and I have had cats for 20 + years, they all get declawed (front only) when they're old enough.  Not a single one has had any negative issues with it, they remain perfectly normal, non-traumatized cats.


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## saveliberty

I would say the same for Daisy and her front claw removal.  I think it mad eher a better indoor cat.  Of course, she does fall off the bed ocassionally.  Front claws might save her.  Rolling backwards off the edge is probably a 50-50 catch at best.


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## JoeB131

percysunshine said:


> Go to the pet store and buy a dozen white mice.
> 
> Turn them loose in your condo.
> 
> The cat will get bored with the furniture. No more problem.



I had some mice in my condo with the old cat because the kids were leaving the service entrance open to catch the school bus.   

He caught one of them one and had to parade in front of me for two minutes to show me what he accomplished...  

Until the Condo Association got the problem under control, he used to leave dead mice as little offering in front of my chair.


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## Vel

I'm not a fan of declawing  BUT, if the kitty's choices are lose the claws or lose it's home, I'd look into laser declawing surgery. It's less invasive than conventional surgery. That being said, the inclined cardboard scratching posts are great. They are inexpensive, stable and with the addition of a little loose catnip, almost irresistible to most cats. You might try temporarily covering any furniture that you really would be upset to have marks in and applying the double sided tape on the covers. You can also get a Scat Mat,( basically a static shock mat ) to protect sensitive furniture. I don't like claw covers because they force the claws to stay extended and it seems to me that it would be horribly uncomfortable. BTW.. awesome that you took this baby out of the shelter.


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## DiAnna

I will add my advice to the other excellent comments here.

Please do not declaw unless the only option is giving the cat back to the shelter.  Sticky tape, cat repellent sprays, all these things can help.  Talk to the vet for other options.

We rescued an adult cat from the roof of a supermarket many years ago.  She was our first cat ever, and she shredded our furniture.  No big deal, we thought, we'll get her declawed.  Only after the fact did we discover that declawing is like cutting off your fingers at the first knuckle.

Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.   Please, try using tape, repellent, providing sisal scratching posts next to her favorate scratching locations (put a couple of cat treats on the base of it).  Lots of stuffed mice and cat toys to alleviate boredome.  

Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.  Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.  Please.  Gentle love will gain your cat's trust, and once it realizes that the sisal posts are much better for scraping the dead husks off their claws that flimsy furniture (which you have protected with tape), there will not be a problem.

Let us know how it goes.


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## Sky Dancer

Don't declaw.  It's cruel.  Cats need natural defenses.  Even a house kitty can escape and be helpless.


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## jillian

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.



never declaw... 

get the cat a scratching post/cat condo ...


----------



## WorldWatcher

>

Our two cats are not declawed and we've never had problems with clawing the furniture.

I can't say this works for everyone but...

1.  We adopted two cats at the same time, we feel this was a factor because during the day the cats could play with each other (less boredom).

2.  We purchased a 6 foot "cat condo" that has scratching posts built in at the lower level.

3.  We put a 3 foot single post/base in the living room.

4.  When younger we would use cat spray to attract them to the posts.

5.  When kittens, we used plenty of positive reinforcement when the cats used the scratching post(s) on their own and when caught them even looking cross eyed at the furniture would take them to the post and provide approval and petting.

6.  At night their sleeping quarters are in the (decent sized) laundry/mud room which is where their litter box is.  (OK, this has nothing to do with clawing the furniture.  The cats are not allowed in the master bedroom because one likes to eat the plants in there and this way we can leave the door open at night.)



Over the course of years I've repeatedly had to replace the rope in both posts with the correct natural fiber robe because they have literally worn it though.  You can get the rope at hardware stores, just cut off the old rope, anchor one end with heavy staples (hammer driven) and wrap tightly, then anchor the other end.


>>>>


----------



## California Girl

DiAnna said:


> I will add my advice to the other excellent comments here.
> 
> Please do not declaw unless the only option is giving the cat back to the shelter.  Sticky tape, cat repellent sprays, all these things can help.  Talk to the vet for other options.
> 
> We rescued an adult cat from the roof of a supermarket many years ago.  She was our first cat ever, and she shredded our furniture.  No big deal, we thought, we'll get her declawed.  Only after the fact did we discover that declawing is like cutting off your fingers at the first knuckle.
> 
> Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.   Please, try using tape, repellent, providing sisal scratching posts next to her favorate scratching locations (put a couple of cat treats on the base of it).  Lots of stuffed mice and cat toys to alleviate boredome.
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.  Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.  Please.  Gentle love will gain your cat's trust, and once it realizes that the sisal posts are much better for scraping the dead husks off their claws that flimsy furniture (which you have protected with tape), there will not be a problem.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.



^^^ That is pretty much why I used the double sided tape solution. I adopted an old cat who scratched furniture. The double sided tape solution worked great for me. I am against declawing cats generally. I tried the scratch posts - she paid very little attention to it. And she didn't like catnip. LOL


----------



## Skull Pilot

I've had a lot of cats in my life.  I used to be one of those open the door and let the cat come and go owners.  Now I only have indoor cats.  I've never had a cat escape or get outside.

That said I've had a couple cats who I declawed and I have no real problem with it as the pain can be managed quite well with drugs and I believe that a cat is better off declawed than dead.  Sending a cat to a shelter is a death sentence in most cases.


----------



## JoeB131

Well, sending this cat back to the shelter is not an option. 

Since the couch is already pretty much shot, anyway, I'll try some of the solutions suggested. 

I have a scratching post.  At first, I had the one that belonged to the old cat, but she refused to have anything to do with anything that was his.  So I got rid of his old stuff and got her one of her own.  She still likes the couch and the carpet, better. 

I feel kind of bad for this cat, she lived in a cage for five months in the shelter because they wouldn't let her into the common area with the other cats.  Now I'm understanding why.  But the cat is much better behaved when I first got her, she just has moments when she gets into cranky moods.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

If you're going to adopt the animals with behavioral problems, you need to be prepared to deal with them in an appropriate manner.  

As for trimming the claws, you can do it.  You might have to wrap the cat in a towel or something.  I have six cats, four of which were strays on the street that I took in.  I can trim all their claws by myself except for one cat I have to get my husband to grip the back of his neck because he tries to bite me and he's pretty scary.  If you grip a cat by the back of its neck, you subdue them without hurting them.  Don't hang them up in the air, just grasp all the loose skin at the back of their neck firmly.  But even that cat is becoming more manageable, and cut all but one of his front claws by myself the other day before he got too scary.

By the way...no need to trim the back claws.  A vet told me that.  The main reason I trim my cats' claws is so they don't get so long as to curl back into their paw pads.  So I do it for their good, not mine.  And the vet said only need do the front.

And never, never cut back to the quick!!  Just cut off the sharp points, for crying out loud.


----------



## syrenn

god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room. 

Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand. 

They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.


----------



## JoeB131

syrenn said:


> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.



I do have a squirt bottle I use when she does things she shouldn't do. 

And, yes, I was using the special cat clippers.  Like I said, I owned a cat for 16 years before I got this one.  I think the problem really is that I've forgotten what young cats are like.


----------



## Unkotare

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.




If you are even considering it you are a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to have a pet of any sort.


----------



## JoeB131

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are even considering it you are a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to have a pet of any sort.
Click to expand...


Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  

Again, it's an issue of liability, if she claws one of my guests.  

Now go away and work out your issues on someone else's time...


----------



## syrenn

JoeB131 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a squirt bottle I use when she does things she shouldn't do.
> 
> And, yes, I was using the special cat clippers.  Like I said, I owned a cat for 16 years before I got this one.  I think the problem really is that I've forgotten what young cats are like.
Click to expand...



LOL.... i love kittens! And yes... they can be a handful. Mine have taken to stealing anything that is not locked down...and hiding it!


----------



## Uncensored2008

RadiomanATL said:


> Get a dog.



And feed the cat to it.....


----------



## JoeB131

syrenn said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a squirt bottle I use when she does things she shouldn't do.
> 
> And, yes, I was using the special cat clippers.  Like I said, I owned a cat for 16 years before I got this one.  I think the problem really is that I've forgotten what young cats are like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL.... i love kittens! And yes... they can be a handful. Mine have taken to stealing anything that is not locked down...and hiding it!
Click to expand...


I just found a stash of 30 pens under my couch... 

Not sure why she likes pens so much.


----------



## Ringel05

DiAnna said:


> I will add my advice to the other excellent comments here.
> 
> Please do not declaw unless the only option is giving the cat back to the shelter.  Sticky tape, cat repellent sprays, all these things can help.  Talk to the vet for other options.
> 
> We rescued an adult cat from the roof of a supermarket many years ago.  She was our first cat ever, and she shredded our furniture.  No big deal, we thought, we'll get her declawed.  Only after the fact did we discover that declawing is like cutting off your fingers at the first knuckle.
> 
> *Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.  * Please, try using tape, repellent, providing sisal scratching posts next to her favorate scratching locations (put a couple of cat treats on the base of it).  Lots of stuffed mice and cat toys to alleviate boredome.
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.  Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.  Please.  Gentle love will gain your cat's trust, and once it realizes that the sisal posts are much better for scraping the dead husks off their claws that flimsy furniture (which you have protected with tape), there will not be a problem.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.





> Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.



Boy do I beg to differ on that claim.  First it's unproven, it's a construct of the no declawing crowd, second every one of our cats go outside under supervision, it hasn't stopped them from catching mice, moles, birds, etc or hold their own in the rare fight with neighbor's cats who are clawed.  Not to mention our youngest 6 year old has chased dogs, including German shepherds out of the yard.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

JoeB131 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a squirt bottle I use when she does things she shouldn't do.
> 
> And, yes, I was using the special cat clippers.  Like I said, I owned a cat for 16 years before I got this one.  I think the problem really is that I've forgotten what young cats are like.
Click to expand...


Don't know what style of clippers your using...but I like the little "scissor" style the best.  They look like a little pair of scissors. What I like about them is you can see exactly what you're doing...and you can easily see where the "quick" is and cut above it. 

I trim the claws of 6 cats on a regular basis and have become very adept at it.  But give me those "guillotine" style clippers and I'm useless.  Seriously, if you don't have the scissor-style cutters, they're the easiest of all to use, give them a try.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Ringel05 said:


> DiAnna said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will add my advice to the other excellent comments here.
> 
> Please do not declaw unless the only option is giving the cat back to the shelter.  Sticky tape, cat repellent sprays, all these things can help.  Talk to the vet for other options.
> 
> We rescued an adult cat from the roof of a supermarket many years ago.  She was our first cat ever, and she shredded our furniture.  No big deal, we thought, we'll get her declawed.  Only after the fact did we discover that declawing is like cutting off your fingers at the first knuckle.
> 
> *Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.  * Please, try using tape, repellent, providing sisal scratching posts next to her favorate scratching locations (put a couple of cat treats on the base of it).  Lots of stuffed mice and cat toys to alleviate boredome.
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.  Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.  Please.  Gentle love will gain your cat's trust, and once it realizes that the sisal posts are much better for scraping the dead husks off their claws that flimsy furniture (which you have protected with tape), there will not be a problem.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Boy do I beg to differ on that claim.  First it's unproven, it's a construct of the no declawing crowd, second every one of our cats go outside under supervision, it hasn't stopped them from catching mice, moles, birds, etc or hold their own in the rare fight with neighbor's cats who are clawed.  Not to mention our youngest 6 year old has chased dogs, including German shepherds out of the yard.
Click to expand...


Sorry, Ringel05, but that's not the norm.  If a dog really came at the cat and the cat batted him with her soft little declawed paws, the dog would just grab her.  Same with other cats.  I know that your experience  has been good, but it's not how things usually work out for a declawed cat outside.


----------



## saveliberty

syrenn said:


> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.



Spray bottles aren't always effective.  I had a cat that would simply flatten his ears and close his eyes until you were done squirting.  Then is was right back to whatever he wanted to do.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

syrenn said:


> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.



You are right on, syrenn.  No need to say a word when you spray them, on stream for best effect, and you need to catch them in the act.

Actually, squirt guns work well too. : )


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

saveliberty said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spray bottles aren't always effective.  I had a cat that would simply flatten his ears and close his eyes until you were done squirting.  Then is was right back to whatever he wanted to do.
Click to expand...


Not at all the norm.


----------



## JoeB131

Ringel05 said:


> Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boy do I beg to differ on that claim.  First it's unproven, it's a construct of the no declawing crowd, second every one of our cats go outside under supervision, it hasn't stopped them from catching mice, moles, birds, etc or hold their own in the rare fight with neighbor's cats who are clawed.  Not to mention our youngest 6 year old has chased dogs, including German shepherds out of the yard.
Click to expand...


I'd have to agree there.  

My brother gave me his cat to babysit for a week while he went to Wisconsin. First night the cat is here, he busts his way out of my apartment by pushing out a screen.  Since we have coyotes in the area, I figured this poor cat was toast, and I'd never live this down.  

(My brother was unconcerned. He said to his wife, "That cat will break out of Joey's apartment before we get to the cabin.") 

Four week later, one of my neighbors caught this cat, identified him though the chip in his butt, and called my brother to come pick it up. 

And this cat was declawed both front and rear... 

FOr anyone concerned, I'm probalby not going to declaw my little friend. I agree that's too harsh.  I'm going to work this out.  

But I'm amused that we are horrified at the thought of declawing cats, but pay no mind to castrating them.   

Sorry, you gave me a choice between my fingertips and my 'nads...  I go with keeping the 'nads.


----------



## saveliberty

Okay, thanks for the up date Stubby.


----------



## syrenn

saveliberty said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spray bottles aren't always effective.  I had a cat that would simply flatten his ears and close his eyes until you were done squirting.  Then is was right back to whatever he wanted to do.
Click to expand...



Next in line is caned air.  Works great flushing them out from under the bed too.....


----------



## syrenn

Kooshdakhaa said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right on, syrenn.  No need to say a word when you spray them, on stream for best effect, and you need to catch them in the act.
> 
> Actually, squirt guns work well too. : )
Click to expand...


God works in mysterious ways....


----------



## saveliberty

Canned air costs money, the good ole vacuum cleaner is available.


----------



## syrenn

saveliberty said:


> Canned air costs money, the good ole vacuum cleaner is available.



yeah.. but it works.


----------



## Provocateur

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Provocateur said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> With my work schedule, I don't have time to be fair to a dog.   I have time to be fair to a cat since a cat could care less if you live or die.  Also, my condo association doesn't allow dogs and they've evicted owners for keeping them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you ever want to own a nice piece of furniture?  To some, I suppose it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> Get rid of the claws or get rid of the cat.  Seems pretty simple to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should anyone take advice from you since you obviously have  no feelings whatsoever about animals?
Click to expand...


Don't be so melodramatic.


I have always owned pets.  Dogs for decades and my current cat for the last 7 years.  I have always loved the cat, but I actually only started to LIKE the cat after we had her claws removed.  

And by the way, she often goes outside in the front and back, by choice.  She lets us know when she wants in and out.


I already got rid of one couch because of her.  When I bought the new leather one, I wasn't going to go through it any further.


I wonder if circumcision is as offensive to those people  here claiming animal abuse. 

I have found that the population that is always up in arms decrying animal rights are the same ones that will go to protests to protect a woman's right choose third term abortions.

I.e. a liberal.


Crazy world we live in.


----------



## saveliberty

syrenn said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Canned air costs money, the good ole vacuum cleaner is available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah.. but it works.
Click to expand...


4 all Iz noes, ur cat iz tieping all of this...


----------



## Provocateur

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiAnna said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will add my advice to the other excellent comments here.
> 
> Please do not declaw unless the only option is giving the cat back to the shelter.  Sticky tape, cat repellent sprays, all these things can help.  Talk to the vet for other options.
> 
> We rescued an adult cat from the roof of a supermarket many years ago.  She was our first cat ever, and she shredded our furniture.  No big deal, we thought, we'll get her declawed.  Only after the fact did we discover that declawing is like cutting off your fingers at the first knuckle.
> 
> *Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.  * Please, try using tape, repellent, providing sisal scratching posts next to her favorate scratching locations (put a couple of cat treats on the base of it).  Lots of stuffed mice and cat toys to alleviate boredome.
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.  Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.  Please.  Gentle love will gain your cat's trust, and once it realizes that the sisal posts are much better for scraping the dead husks off their claws that flimsy furniture (which you have protected with tape), there will not be a problem.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Boy do I beg to differ on that claim.  First it's unproven, it's a construct of the no declawing crowd, second every one of our cats go outside under supervision, it hasn't stopped them from catching mice, moles, birds, etc or hold their own in the rare fight with neighbor's cats who are clawed.  Not to mention our youngest 6 year old has chased dogs, including German shepherds out of the yard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Ringel05, but that's not the norm.  If a dog really came at the cat and the cat batted him with her soft little declawed paws, the dog would just grab her.  Same with other cats.  I know that your experience  has been good, but it's not how things usually work out for a declawed cat outside.
Click to expand...


Generally you don't remove the hind claws, so in a battle, they could (and would) use those to defend themselves.


Ours has been out in our residential neighborhood for years amongst dogs and other cats without a single issue.  She stays near the front of the house, and doesn't venture too far away.  Every circumstance is different.


----------



## Unkotare

JoeB131 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are even considering it you are a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to have a pet of any sort.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
Click to expand...



You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.


----------



## DiAnna

saveliberty said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> god is a great deterrent..... well that is what i call it anyway... lol....he comes in the from of a spray bottle. Put the bottle on stream...don't say anything... just spray away when you catch him in the act. Have a bottle for every room.
> 
> Doing anything after the fact... they just look at you and don't understand.
> 
> They make special nail cutters...don't use human fingernail clips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spray bottles aren't always effective.  I had a cat that would simply flatten his ears and close his eyes until you were done squirting.  Then is was right back to whatever he wanted to do.
Click to expand...


LOL!  We do have one little torti who is the sweetest, most gentle cat in the world... but she is stubborn.  Sometimes she likes to tease my husband by standing up behind my chair and putting her claws into the fabric.  She doesn't claw the fabric, just hooks on and stares right at him.  He grabs the squirt bottle and her trick is to try and run out of reach before he can use it... but sometimes she just squinches her eyes shut and basically says, "hit me with your best shot."  She looks so funny that he cracks up, puts the bottle away, and she wanders off, dejected because her game ended.

But with the other two, just reaching for the bottle is enough for them to instantly stop the behavior.  Instantly!


----------



## Ringel05

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiAnna said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will add my advice to the other excellent comments here.
> 
> Please do not declaw unless the only option is giving the cat back to the shelter.  Sticky tape, cat repellent sprays, all these things can help.  Talk to the vet for other options.
> 
> We rescued an adult cat from the roof of a supermarket many years ago.  She was our first cat ever, and she shredded our furniture.  No big deal, we thought, we'll get her declawed.  Only after the fact did we discover that declawing is like cutting off your fingers at the first knuckle.
> 
> *Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.  * Please, try using tape, repellent, providing sisal scratching posts next to her favorate scratching locations (put a couple of cat treats on the base of it).  Lots of stuffed mice and cat toys to alleviate boredome.
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.  Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.  Please.  Gentle love will gain your cat's trust, and once it realizes that the sisal posts are much better for scraping the dead husks off their claws that flimsy furniture (which you have protected with tape), there will not be a problem.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Boy do I beg to differ on that claim.  First it's unproven, it's a construct of the no declawing crowd, second every one of our cats go outside under supervision, it hasn't stopped them from catching mice, moles, birds, etc or hold their own in the rare fight with neighbor's cats who are clawed.  Not to mention our youngest 6 year old has chased dogs, including German shepherds out of the yard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, Ringel05, but that's not the norm.  If a dog really came at the cat and the cat batted him with her soft little declawed paws, the dog would just grab her.  Same with other cats.  I know that your experience  has been good, but it's not how things usually work out for a declawed cat outside.
Click to expand...


Like I said we only declaw the front and they still know how to use the rear ones.  I also know quite a few others that have  or have had declawed cats that run loose and never have any problems.  Matter of fact what killed a couple that I know of were cars and disease, not other animals.  Peta has always and still does tell lies concerning quite a few aspects of pet ownership, don't listen to them.


----------



## koshergrl

don't declaw. The claws are part of their feet, and they need them not only for protection but for balance and traction. If you can't handle a cat's claws you probably shouldn't have a cat.

Yes they can tear up the furniture over time. Again, if you aren't up for it, get a stuffed animal.


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are even considering it you are a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to have a pet of any sort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
Click to expand...


Try reading a few posts first Unkotare.  Joe hasn't declawed yet and is leaning toward not doing it.  He was asking opinions before making an informed decision.  You on the other hand, just flew off the handle.


----------



## koshergrl

Lol..but I did kinda laugh at that post.

I mean probably it's not going to make any difference to this particular cat, and it's the OP's cat to do as he pleases with.

But hind claws don't replace front claws...to use its back claws, a cat has to be on it's back or actually being held, and that's not a good place for a cat to me.

I know they can be very destructive over time; my mom has two kitties she's had for years, and her furniture is toast...but that's just part of the territory. When you see where they're going to claw, you can buy silicone or plastic things to protect those spots...


----------



## saveliberty

If the cat is older than six months, don't even consider declawing.  For a young cat, it seems to make little difference to mine as a indoor cat (front only).  Daisy is 17.


----------



## koshergrl

JoeB131 said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outside, a declawed cat is totally defenseless, and will not live to see out the year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boy do I beg to differ on that claim. First it's unproven, it's a construct of the no declawing crowd, second every one of our cats go outside under supervision, it hasn't stopped them from catching mice, moles, birds, etc or hold their own in the rare fight with neighbor's cats who are clawed. Not to mention our youngest 6 year old has chased dogs, including German shepherds out of the yard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd have to agree there.
> 
> My brother gave me his cat to babysit for a week while he went to Wisconsin. First night the cat is here, he busts his way out of my apartment by pushing out a screen. Since we have coyotes in the area, I figured this poor cat was toast, and I'd never live this down.
> 
> (My brother was unconcerned. He said to his wife, "That cat will break out of Joey's apartment before we get to the cabin.")
> 
> Four week later, one of my neighbors caught this cat, identified him though the chip in his butt, and called my brother to come pick it up.
> 
> And this cat was declawed both front and rear...
> 
> FOr anyone concerned, I'm probalby not going to declaw my little friend. I agree that's too harsh. I'm going to work this out.
> 
> But I'm amused that we are horrified at the thought of declawing cats, but pay no mind to castrating them.
> 
> Sorry, you gave me a choice between my fingertips and my 'nads... I go with keeping the 'nads.
Click to expand...

 
That's because you grasp the consequences. And it's unlikely you walk on your hands.

Cats don't use their balls to walk and run. They do use their claws.


----------



## MikeK

DiAnna said:


> [...]
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.



I must respectfully advise that you are quite wrong about that -- and I speak from considerable experience.  Anyone who has ever watched a mother cat weaning her litter knows that mama cat doesn't hesitate to thump the daylights out of a misbehaving kitten.  The simple fact is as long as you show the cat the appropriate amount of affection when it's being good there will be no doubt in its mind about when and why it's being swatted.  Cats are not stupid.  Far from it.  

The simple trick is a little pain when you're bad and a lot of love when you're good.  They get the idea pretty quick.  Your comment suggests that you are a spoiling mama, which is not good.  



> Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.


Cats are far from fragile.  They are very hardy creatures.  And I hope you don't think I've recommended using a blackjack on them or striking for a knockout.  A swat.  Just enough to let them know you're angry and not playing.  

PS:  My three girls all got a red ass now and then when they had it coming and they've all turned out just fine.  Same with cats.   As long as they get a lot of love when they're good a little whack when they're bad will not traumatize them.  

And I don't care what any "professional" has to say about that.


----------



## Unkotare

saveliberty said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try reading a few posts first Unkotare.  Joe hasn't declawed yet and is leaning toward not doing it.  He was asking opinions before making an informed decision.  You on the other hand, just flew off the handle.
Click to expand...




I read them, thanks. If he's _thinking_ about it he's a douchebag who doesn't deserve to have a pet of any kind. If he doesn't do it he's still a douchebag, just not for this particular reason.


----------



## Unkotare

MikeK said:


> DiAnna said:
> 
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must respectfully advise that you are quite wrong about that -- and I speak from considerable experience.  Anyone who has ever watched a mother cat weaning her litter knows that mama cat doesn't hesitate to thump the daylights out of a misbehaving kitten.  The simple fact is as long as you show the cat the appropriate amount of affection when it's being good there will be no doubt in its mind about when and why it's being swatted.  Cats are not stupid.  Far from it.
> 
> The simple trick is a little pain when you're bad and a lot of love when you're good.  They get the idea pretty quick.  Your comment suggests that you are a spoiling mama, which is not good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cats are far from fragile.  They are very hardy creatures.  And I hope you don't think I've recommended using a blackjack on them or striking for a knockout.  A swat.  Just enough to let them know you're angry and not playing.
> 
> PS:  My three girls all got a red ass now and then when they had it coming and they've all turned out just fine.  Same with cats.   As long as they get a lot of love when they're good a little whack when they're bad will not traumatize them.
> 
> And I don't care what any "professional" has to say about that.
Click to expand...




You're a fucking loser who deserves a good beating.


----------



## MikeK

jillian said:


> never declaw...
> 
> get the cat a scratching post/cat condo ...


Jillian,

That is a magnificent cat condo.  Must have cost at least $150.  

My brother made one for us when we lived in Brooklyn.  It had four levels and was 6-1/2' tall.  But it didn't look as plush as the one in your picture.  That one is skillfully carpeted.


----------



## MikeK

Unkotare said:


> You're a fucking loser who deserves a good beating.


Congratulations.  You just qualified for my Ignore list.

Sayonara.


----------



## koshergrl

I still think it's sort of funny (unkotare's posts)..

I have to say, I've never heard the liability argument in regards to cats scratching before. I've never heard of anyone have a cat scratch lawsuit.

But maybe I've led a sheltered life, lol...


----------



## Unkotare

MikeK said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a fucking loser who deserves a good beating.
> 
> 
> 
> Congratulations.  You just qualified for my Ignore list.
> 
> Sayonara.
Click to expand...



With your attitude you'd better be good at running away.


----------



## JoeB131

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are even considering it you are a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to have a pet of any sort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
Click to expand...


Guy, you need to seriously get your anger issues under control.  They'll never show you the secret handshake if you keep swearing like that.  

It would have been nice if the shelter had been a lot more upfront about this animal's history, that she had been thrown out of her last home because it fought with other cats or that they had kept it locked in a cage for five months.


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DiAnna said:
> 
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> Never, ever hit your cat... not its paws, not its rump... just don't.  The cat will become fearful and hand-shy, and may end up being a biter/fighter every time you go to pet or touch it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must respectfully advise that you are quite wrong about that -- and I speak from considerable experience.  Anyone who has ever watched a mother cat weaning her litter knows that mama cat doesn't hesitate to thump the daylights out of a misbehaving kitten.  The simple fact is as long as you show the cat the appropriate amount of affection when it's being good there will be no doubt in its mind about when and why it's being swatted.  Cats are not stupid.  Far from it.
> 
> The simple trick is a little pain when you're bad and a lot of love when you're good.  They get the idea pretty quick.  Your comment suggests that you are a spoiling mama, which is not good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cats are fragile creatures, and they know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cats are far from fragile.  They are very hardy creatures.  And I hope you don't think I've recommended using a blackjack on them or striking for a knockout.  A swat.  Just enough to let them know you're angry and not playing.
> 
> PS:  My three girls all got a red ass now and then when they had it coming and they've all turned out just fine.  Same with cats.   As long as they get a lot of love when they're good a little whack when they're bad will not traumatize them.
> 
> And I don't care what any "professional" has to say about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a fucking loser who deserves a good beating.
Click to expand...


And you're just the internet tough guy to do it, right?   Not.  Why don't you go do yourself a favor (and everybody else in the process) and hug a wild grizzly bear, tell him how much you love him.  
Hell. I'd pay money to see that.


----------



## Unkotare

JoeB131 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Guy, you need to seriously get your anger issues under control.  They'll never show you the secret handshake if you keep swearing like that.
> 
> It would have been nice if the shelter had been a lot more upfront about this animal's history, that she had been thrown out of her last home because it fought with other cats or that they had kept it locked in a cage for five months.
Click to expand...



YOU are (almost) the human being in this relationship. If you could not responsibly care for the cat you should not have taken it, you fucking punk.


----------



## Unkotare

Ringel05 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must respectfully advise that you are quite wrong about that -- and I speak from considerable experience.  Anyone who has ever watched a mother cat weaning her litter knows that mama cat doesn't hesitate to thump the daylights out of a misbehaving kitten.  The simple fact is as long as you show the cat the appropriate amount of affection when it's being good there will be no doubt in its mind about when and why it's being swatted.  Cats are not stupid.  Far from it.
> 
> The simple trick is a little pain when you're bad and a lot of love when you're good.  They get the idea pretty quick.  Your comment suggests that you are a spoiling mama, which is not good.
> 
> 
> Cats are far from fragile.  They are very hardy creatures.  And I hope you don't think I've recommended using a blackjack on them or striking for a knockout.  A swat.  Just enough to let them know you're angry and not playing.
> 
> PS:  My three girls all got a red ass now and then when they had it coming and they've all turned out just fine.  Same with cats.   As long as they get a lot of love when they're good a little whack when they're bad will not traumatize them.
> 
> And I don't care what any "professional" has to say about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a fucking loser who deserves a good beating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you're just the internet tough guy to do it, right?  .
Click to expand...



I'm sure almost anyone _could_ do it. The important point is about him deserving it. If you want to spoon with him and make him feel better about that go ahead but keep it to yourselves.


----------



## Vel

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are even considering it you are a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to have a pet of any sort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
Click to expand...


Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?


----------



## koshergrl

Who cares? Do you? It would be nice if someone, just once, would try to stick to the topic at hand instead of always making it about the poster.

Maybe that's impossible in this venue.


----------



## Unkotare

Vel6377 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?
Click to expand...


What, with people who are unnecessarily cruel to animals? This is me being restrained.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Unkotare said:


> Vel6377 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What, with people who are unnecessarily cruel to animals? This is me being restrained.
Click to expand...


I kind of get where you're coming from, actually.  I've seen just a bit too much of animal cruelty lately, and I get very worked-up about it, too.  Actually, there have been instances when I would have liked someone like you around.  As long as we managed to stay out of jail, that is.  

Blithely discussing whether or not a cat's claws should be amputated, along with its toes, is a bit much to take.  I understand.  But people need to be educated.  I don't have time right now, but me (or someone) should post one of those pictures that shows the anatomy of a cat's foot and how the claws are not just like our fingernails...they are interconnected with the toe structure which is why the last joint of the toes must be amputated to get them off.

But it's not just the brutality of the procedure, which is quite painful to recuperate from.  You're taking something essential away from the cat, which is why many declawed cats become biters.

I wonder if he's thought of the liability if this cat bites one of his guests.  I think I'd get new guests who didn't make me feel like they'll sue me for any little thing.


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're a fucking loser who deserves a good beating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're just the internet tough guy to do it, right?  .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure almost anyone _could_ do it. The important point is about him deserving it. If you want to spoon with him and make him feel better about that go ahead but keep it to yourselves.
Click to expand...


Spooning with him has nothing to do with anything.  Pointing out you're a major asshole..... priceless..........


----------



## saveliberty

Oh BS, my cat was up and moving about the same day.  I did request pain meds.


----------



## oracle

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.



While I'm not a fan of declawing, I feel your pain. I've had up to six cats in my home at one time and I couldn't bring myself to declaw them. Now of the three that are left, they go nuts with the scratching. What I did, however, was to put a runner on the floor, that was made out of coarse material like what they go for. Then I put fresh catnip in a small pile on it, once a day. Now they don't scratch furniture so much. The drawback is, I think they're junkies now. Try that, if it doesn't work, then you have to do, what you have to do. But PLEASE don't do the back claws. I've seen idiots do that and it's agony for the cats. If you need to see what I mean, the next time your back itches, try scratching it with a sock. Hope this helps.


----------



## oracle

RadiomanATL said:


> Get a dog.



Yeah, they only piss and shit all over the house and eat your shoes.


----------



## DiAnna

Vel6377 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?
Click to expand...


If he's this nasty in person I image he spends much of his life sipping liquids through his missing teeth with his jaw wired shut.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

saveliberty said:


> Oh BS, my cat was up and moving about the same day.  I did request pain meds.



Anybody who doesn't pay for the pain meds after this procedure is, in fact, an asshole.

Your cat was up and moving thanks to the pain meds and residual effects of stuff they gave them for the surgery.  When those meds start wearing off, you bet they feel pain.  They just handle it much, much better than humans do.


----------



## JoeB131

Vel6377 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the other option (if none of the other options work) is sending her back to the shelter and having her put to sleep.  ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?
Click to expand...


In real life he's probably the meekest thing in the world.


----------



## tinydancer

Ringel05 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boy do I beg to differ on that claim.  First it's unproven, it's a construct of the no declawing crowd, second every one of our cats go outside under supervision, it hasn't stopped them from catching mice, moles, birds, etc or hold their own in the rare fight with neighbor's cats who are clawed.  Not to mention our youngest 6 year old has chased dogs, including German shepherds out of the yard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Ringel05, but that's not the norm.  If a dog really came at the cat and the cat batted him with her soft little declawed paws, the dog would just grab her.  Same with other cats.  I know that your experience  has been good, but it's not how things usually work out for a declawed cat outside.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I said we only declaw the front and they still know how to use the rear ones.  I also know quite a few others that have  or have had declawed cats that run loose and never have any problems.  Matter of fact what killed a couple that I know of were cars and disease, not other animals.  Peta has always and still does tell lies concerning quite a few aspects of pet ownership, don't listen to them.
Click to expand...


Bingo. Hershey our chocolate point siamese was declawed with her front paws. Hells bells she could club you to death with her front paws and still nuke you in a grapple hold with her back feet shredding you to death.

People who say declawing is barbaric fail to realize that ripping out the uterous or deballing a male might be just a tad barbaric as well.

Come on people. Ouch. But if we declaw and more people could live with cats, all the better than death for cats because they clawed a couch.

My cats have been the most amazing beasties. Whatever we can do to make them part of an indoor world and full of love is a good thing.

*Neutering, from the Latin neuter (of neither sex[1]), is the removal of an animal's reproductive organ, either all of it or a considerably large part. The process is often used in reference to males whereas spaying is often reserved for females. Colloquially, both terms are often referred to as fixing. While technically called castration for males, in male horses, the process is referred to as gelding.

Neutering is the most common sterilizing method in animals. In the United States, most humane societies, animal shelters and rescue groups (not to mention numerous commercial entities) urge pet owners to have their pets spayed or neutered to prevent the births of unwanted litters, contributing to the overpopulation of unwanted animals in the rescue 
*


----------



## Unkotare

JoeB131 said:


> Vel6377 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have taken a cat you cannot care for, you fucking irresponsible idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In real life he's probably the meekest thing in the world.
Click to expand...


If I see a shit like you abusing an animal in front of me you'd find out real quick, douchebag.


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vel6377 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In real life he's probably the meekest thing in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I see a shit like you abusing an animal in front of me you'd find out real quick, douchebag.
Click to expand...


Hope you like the taste of asphalt.


----------



## Unkotare

saveliberty said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In real life he's probably the meekest thing in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I see a shit like you abusing an animal in front of me you'd find out real quick, douchebag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hope you like the taste of asphalt.
Click to expand...



I've served it up to plenty of assholes like this douchebag (and you, I suppose).


----------



## saveliberty

I laugh in your general direction.  Which I presume is southeast.  I just got done carrying in sheets of drywall two at a time up two flights of stairs this weekend.  You might want to STFU.  5/8" cause 1/2" is for losers.


----------



## Unkotare

saveliberty said:


> I laugh in your general direction.  Which I presume is southeast.  I just got done carrying in sheets of drywall two at a time up two flights of stairs this weekend.  .





That's great. Keep humpin' your drywall and STFU.


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I laugh in your general direction.  Which I presume is southeast.  I just got done carrying in sheets of drywall two at a time up two flights of stairs this weekend.  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's great. Keep humpin' your drywall and STFU.
Click to expand...


This is where I get to tell you, make me.  

I would have thought even you cauld see how stupid this sounds, apparently not.


----------



## Unkotare

saveliberty said:


> [
> 
> I would have thought even you cauld [sic] see how stupid this sounds.





Then STFU already.


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vel6377 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you this nasty in real life or do you save it for the internet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In real life he's probably the meekest thing in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I see a shit like you abusing an animal in front of me you'd find out real quick, douchebag.
Click to expand...


Sure thing there twinkie.  How'd the last ALF meeting go Herr Tierhaftführer?


----------



## Unkotare

Whatever the hell that means...


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> Whatever the hell that means...



Well Einstein it's simple.  No one here even remotely claimed to abuse or talked about abusing animals except in your fucked up rational (if it can be called rational) which means all you succeeded in doing was making a complete ass out of yourself and painting a target on your back that reads, "kick me". 
So go back to your PETA and ALF meetings and cry into your chai about how evil humans are.


----------



## Unkotare

Ringel05 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the hell that means...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well Einstein it's simple.  No one here even remotely claimed to abuse or talked about abusing animals.
Click to expand...




Bullshit.


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the hell that means...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well Einstein it's simple.  No one here even remotely claimed to abuse or talked about abusing animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
Click to expand...




Really?  Tell me how many people get arrested for declawing cats at the vet's office then dimwit.


----------



## Unkotare

Abortion is legal too. That doesn't mean it's right, asshat.


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> Abortion is legal too. That doesn't mean it's right, asshat.



Just pointing out your definition of animal abuse is not the standard.  You seem to ignore that.  We are not discussing abortion, but declawing.


----------



## Unkotare

saveliberty said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abortion is legal too. That doesn't mean it's right, asshat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just pointing out your definition of animal abuse is not the standard. .
Click to expand...




Just pointing out your general immorality.


----------



## kwc57

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.



I'm a cat lover and have always had cats.  Get them declawed and nuetered early on and keep them inside.  Everyone will be happy.


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the hell that means...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well Einstein it's simple.  No one here even remotely claimed to abuse or talked about abusing animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
Click to expand...


Ya know you really shouldn't call yourself names like that, idiot, moron and asshole fit much better. 
As for you're intended response..... prove where you can claim abuse, not your fucked up opinion of abuse but real provable abuse or STFU.


----------



## Unkotare

Ringel05 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well Einstein it's simple.  No one here even remotely claimed to abuse or talked about abusing animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya know you really shouldn't call yourself names like that, idiot, moron and asshole fit much better. .
Click to expand...



I'm sure you've got loads of experience fitting assholes, but that is not the topic of this thread, skidmark.


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abortion is legal too. That doesn't mean it's right, asshat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just pointing out your definition of animal abuse is not the standard. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just pointing out your general immorality.
Click to expand...


If you were a moral person, it might make a difference to me.


----------



## Unkotare

saveliberty said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just pointing out your definition of animal abuse is not the standard. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just pointing out your general immorality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you were a moral person, it might make a difference to me.
Click to expand...





That is not a logical conclusion.
































And, fuck off.


----------



## kwc57

unkotare said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i see a shit like you abusing an animal in front of me you'd find out real quick, douchebag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hope you like the taste of asphalt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i've served it up to plenty of assholes like this douchebag (and you, i suppose).
Click to expand...


View attachment 15180


----------



## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know you really shouldn't call yourself names like that, idiot, moron and asshole fit much better. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you've got loads of experience fitting assholes, but *that is not the topic of this thread*, skidmark.
Click to expand...


You made it so initially when you attacked Joe for no reason other than your perception of animal abuse by him.  Now you've chosen to ignore the rest of my post, since you obviously know I'm right and you continue to chose deflection and attack, not that you have the wit to do so effectively.  
Okay shit for brains prove to everyone here you're not the petty little prick you're making yourself out to be.  Prove to everyone here that you really can lever your head out of your ass, even if only temporarily.  Come on you little control freak, ya got a big mouth on the internet, Mr tough guy, prove you're not some little pussy living in you parent's basement.  Come on, learn to use that atrophied brain of yours (what little there was originally) and use it to prove you're not as patently pathetic as you continually show yourself to be.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

For those who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.

I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.

I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.

And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.

I think Unkotare feels actual anguish for animals who suffer, and that's why he gets so angry.  I understand that kind of empathy with animals because I feel it too.


----------



## JoeB131

I want to apologize to everyone for Ukypuke hijacking this thread.  

I also want to thank everyone, pro and con who gave me their honest opinions about declawing. 

For the moment, I'm inclined against declawing.  I will try to modify the animals behavior using advice I've gotten here and elsewhere on line.


----------



## Provocateur

Kooshdakhaa said:


> All you people who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I love them so much I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.



Your house sounds lovely.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Provocateur said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> All you people who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I love them so much I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your house sounds lovely.
Click to expand...


It is.  There isn't a bunch of clawed up furniture sitting around, if that's what you mean. 

I'll post a picture later.


----------



## Ringel05

Kooshdakhaa said:


> All you people who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I love them so much I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.





> All you people who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.



Thank you Dr Spock for that perceptual obtrusion, you observation will be given due consideration.


----------



## tinydancer

JoeB131 said:


> I want to apologize to everyone for Ukypuke hijacking this thread.
> 
> I also want to thank everyone, pro and con who gave me their honest opinions about declawing.
> 
> For the moment, I'm inclined against declawing.  I will try to modify the animals behavior using advice I've gotten here and elsewhere on line.



Well bless you in your travels. I had Hershey 12 years declawed and and awesome. I'm looking at my babies now, not declawed and my couch is starting to look like crap and we're talking only a few months here (since I brought the couch in). They are 6 years old. I've been trying every other method to beat the band.

I have to figure this too. I won't give them up. I love them to death.


----------



## JoeB131

Funny cat story. 

My last cat would always crouch and skulk at the patio door when he saw birds, rabbits, whatever.  Then he started getting upity because he saw a pair of Canada Geese.  So I figure, "Okay, smart guy, go ahead and try it." and opened the screen for him. 

He got about halfway to the geese before he realized he miscalculated the whole cat/Goose size ratio thing. Watching him slink back was kind of amusing.  He gave me a look like "Close the door. Close the door, dammit!"


----------



## Unkotare

Kooshdakhaa said:


> For those who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.
> 
> I think Unkotare feels actual anguish for animals who suffer, and that's why he gets so angry.  I understand that kind of empathy with animals because I feel it too.




Nice to see there is at least one moral human being on this board.


----------



## tinydancer

Kooshdakhaa said:


> For those who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.
> 
> I think Unkotare feels actual anguish for animals who suffer, and that's why he gets so angry.  I understand that kind of empathy with animals because I feel it too.



My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.

#1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.

#1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.

#1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.

And the most important rule

#1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?


----------



## saveliberty

My cat is currently sleeping on her head peacefully.   I doubt she has lost a night's rest over her front claws.  Had her for 17 years like the two cats before her.  Each one was rarely sick, given a great deal of attention and purred immediately upon my entry into the room.

I find it almost impossible to believe a person who would commit violence on another person can be a nonabusive pet owner.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

tinydancer said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.
> 
> I think Unkotare feels actual anguish for animals who suffer, and that's why he gets so angry.  I understand that kind of empathy with animals because I feel it too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.
> 
> #1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.
> 
> #1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.
> 
> #1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.
> 
> And the most important rule
> 
> #1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?
Click to expand...


What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.

I really wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.

Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.


----------



## JohnA

I  have indoor cats never declaw use scratch pads sprinke with cat nip works a charm .

 cats like  any pet ( or even kids for that matter ) will bust ,break or distroy something in the home at sometime of other .

if you value your posessions  more then a loving pet or the joy a child brings 
 dont have any of the above


----------



## JohnA

Kooshdakhaa said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.
> 
> I think Unkotare feels actual anguish for animals who suffer, and that's why he gets so angry.  I understand that kind of empathy with animals because I feel it too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.
> 
> #1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.
> 
> #1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.
> 
> #1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.
> 
> And the most important rule
> 
> #1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, TinyDancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  What a self-centered piece of shit I was.
Click to expand...

 thank you for admitting that     you have earned  a positive  rep   from me


----------



## Ringel05

Kooshdakhaa said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.
> 
> I think Unkotare feels actual anguish for animals who suffer, and that's why he gets so angry.  I understand that kind of empathy with animals because I feel it too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.
> 
> #1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.
> 
> #1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.
> 
> #1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.
> 
> And the most important rule
> 
> #1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, TinyDancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  *What a self-centered piece of shit I was.*
Click to expand...

And still are considering your comments about other cat owners.  You and the other moron's puerile attempts at moral superiority are reminiscent of all those who seek to impose their concepts and ideals on all others.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Ringel05 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.
> 
> #1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.
> 
> #1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.
> 
> #1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.
> 
> And the most important rule
> 
> #1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, TinyDancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  *What a self-centered piece of shit I was.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still are considering your comments about other cat owners.  You and the other moron's puerile attempts at moral superiority are reminiscent of all those who seek to impose their concepts and ideals on all others.
Click to expand...


We're just speaking on behalf of those who can't speak for themselves.  And it's not about concepts and ideals we're trying to impose, it's about trying to educate people that removing cat's claws mutilates their paws and is a cruel thing to do.  I remember when I had those cats declawed, how they'd try to cling to something and couldn't.  I knew in my heart when I did it that it was wrong, but I was so full of myself and my new townhouse and furnishings that I rationalized it away.

I hope I never do anything that selfish again in my entire life.


----------



## Ringel05

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, TinyDancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  *What a self-centered piece of shit I was.*
> 
> 
> 
> And still are considering your comments about other cat owners.  You and the other moron's puerile attempts at moral superiority are reminiscent of all those who seek to impose their concepts and ideals on all others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We're just speaking on behalf of those who can't speak for themselves.  And it's not about concepts and ideals we're trying to impose, it's about trying to educate people that removing cat's claws mutilates their paws and is a cruel thing to do.  I remember when I had those cats declawed, how they'd try to cling to something and couldn't.  I knew in my heart when I did it that it was wrong, but I was so full of myself and my new townhouse and furnishings that I rationalized it away.
> 
> I hope I never do anything that selfish again in my entire life.
Click to expand...


What you are doing is called anthropomorphism.  It's not cruel except in you mind so in reality all you are doing is trying to "educate" people as to your opinion and in the process calling it fact.  
Now don't get me wrong, by all means, have and voice your opinion about declawing, I'm not trying to prevent that but stop judging others as cruel who don't hold to *your* ideals and faux moral high ground and you won't get slapped back.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Screw cats....Can't stand the smell of a cat owners house either. And don't give me any shit, there is not one cat owners house that doesn't stink like cats. Doesn't stink with that nasty cat urine smell...Besides, cats have to crawl all over every damn thing in the house, too include the dining room table and kitchen counters. Cat hair in food sucks. Cats are friggin' nasty critters.

Give me a dog any day. Our Cocker Spaniel has never torn up, or damaged anything. The house doesn't stink, and she worships the ground I walk on. Like my daughters, she's a daddy's girl.....A cat doesn't give a shit. If they did, they wouldn't tear your shit up, piss all over your crappy furniture, spray on your pillow, and drag their nasty asses all over your kitchen cutting board an hour before you slice the cheese....Think about that the next time you sit down for dinner.

As far as declawing goes, rip your own damn fingernails out, see how it feels, and then decide.

JMHO.


----------



## tinydancer

Kooshdakhaa said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those who think you love cats, and then you declaw them and keep them indoors...you don't love cats.  You love the idea that you love cats.
> 
> I have six cats, two on purpose, four are rescues.  They all have their claws, I just don't bother to buy brand new, nice furniture because it might cause strife if they claw it.  Generally, they're pretty good, but they will occasionally scratch on a chair or the couch.  I find that you can order really nice slipcovers to rejuvenate old furniture.  I go to slipcovershop.com, they're great and quite reasonable.  Anyway, it's a good solution to keeping my house looking nice.
> 
> I have quite a large yard, and I had it fenced with black chain link, 6' tall because of my Dobermans.  At the top of the fence I have barb arms, pointing INWARD at 45 degrees.  Across the top of that I have secured plastic netting that then hangs down.  What this does is the cats can't get out of the yard.  I researched quite a bit before deciding what to do, and it has worked for years now.  They CANNOT get out.  I wrapped some copper flashing around my tree trunks, that keeps the cats from climbing the tree trunks and getting out that way.  You get the picture.  So they get to have an outdoor experience, sneak around in the bushes, chase bugs, bask in the sun, etc. without the danger of getting hit by cars, getting lost, getting in cat fights or being killed by dogs.
> 
> And it's not that I love cats soooo much...it's just the decent thing to do.  I have all this power over what kind of experience they have in this life.  I take that very seriously.  I feel it is my responsibility to provide them the best possible life experience, including being able to go outdoors safely and getting to keep their claws.
> 
> I think Unkotare feels actual anguish for animals who suffer, and that's why he gets so angry.  I understand that kind of empathy with animals because I feel it too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.
> 
> #1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.
> 
> #1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.
> 
> #1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.
> 
> And the most important rule
> 
> #1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.
> 
> IDreally wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
Click to expand...



Did you spay or neuter? 

Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.

Rip out uterus.  Check.

Castrate male  Check.

Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.


----------



## saveliberty

Kooshdakhaa said:


> [What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.
> 
> I really wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.



What a crock of shit.  The number of clawed cats FAR outweighs the small number of declawed ones in shelters.  A person incapable of showing human compassion certainly cannot show it toward an animal and be an emotionally healthy person.  That is a fact.


----------



## JakeStarkey

declawing a cat, in my experience, is a case by case experience, and we have had both declawed and clawed cats.  The environment in which you wish to live dicates.  However, if you declaw, make sure you understand what a cat undergoes and make sure you have a great vet.  Best fortune on this: not an easy call at all.


----------



## Mr Natural

Don't do it!

It will render your cat defenseless should he get out.

But on the other hand, if you have an animal in your house that destroys your furniture and creates a liability problem, you may as well get a dog.

Not that I have anything against cats,  but I suspect that cat people really want a dog anyway but don't want the bother.  And they are a big pain in the ass but a whole lot better company and a lot more fun than a cat.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

saveliberty said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> [What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.
> 
> I really wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a crock of shit.  The number of clawed cats FAR outweighs the small number of declawed ones in shelters.  A person incapable of showing human compassion certainly cannot show it toward an animal and be an emotionally healthy person.  That is a fact.
Click to expand...


Okay, I'll bite.  Why do you keep bringing up the inability to show compassion to humans, committing violence on people, etc.?  Spit it out.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

tinydancer said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.
> 
> #1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.
> 
> #1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.
> 
> #1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.
> 
> And the most important rule
> 
> #1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.
> 
> IDreally wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
Click to expand...


Hey, you stupid bitch, I'm not a lib.  

There are no residual affects from being spayed and neutered.  A female dog spayed before her first estrus may become incontinent and require medication for a lifetime, however, so it might be wise to wait until after she comes into heat the first time before spaying.

A female dog who is spayed has a reduced risk of breast cancer, however.

Here would be a human comparison...a women who has a hysterectomy versus a woman who has all her fingers amputated?  NOW which has the most impact?

I hate it when I have to explain things to stupid people.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Mr Clean said:


> Don't do it!
> 
> It will render your cat defenseless should he get out.
> 
> But on the other hand, if you have an animal in your house that destroys your furniture and creates a liability problem, you may as well get a dog.
> 
> Not that I have anything against cats,  but I suspect that cat people really want a dog anyway but don't want the bother.  And they are a big pain in the ass but a whole lot better company and a lot more fun than a cat.



No kidding about dogs and cats!  I grew up with both, but for many, many years as an adult I had only cats because I didn't live where I could have dogs.  My boss was always telling me dogs are better and I'd tell him that wasn't true.  Then I got dogs!  OMG, they are wonderful!  I had to tell my boss he was right, after all.  And the more intelligent the dog, the more of a heartbreaker they are!  I still love my cats, but my dogs bring much more joy to my life.


----------



## saveliberty

Kooshdakhaa said:


> No kidding about dogs and cats!  I grew up with both, but for many, many years as an adult I had only cats because I didn't live where I could have dogs.  My boss was always telling me dogs are better and I'd tell him that wasn't true.  Then I got dogs!  OMG, they are wonderful!  I had to tell my boss he was right, after all.  And the more intelligent the dog, the more of a heartbreaker they are!  I still love my cats, but my dogs bring much more joy to my life.



You really shouldn't own a cat then.  You had one because of conditions, not because that is what you wanted.  Also, you can't understand your cat, so you assume it is less intelligent.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

saveliberty said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding about dogs and cats!  I grew up with both, but for many, many years as an adult I had only cats because I didn't live where I could have dogs.  My boss was always telling me dogs are better and I'd tell him that wasn't true.  Then I got dogs!  OMG, they are wonderful!  I had to tell my boss he was right, after all.  And the more intelligent the dog, the more of a heartbreaker they are!  I still love my cats, but my dogs bring much more joy to my life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really shouldn't own a cat then.  You had one because of conditions, not because that is what you wanted.  Also, you can't understand your cat, so you assume it is less intelligent.
Click to expand...


I didn't say the cats weren't intelligent.  I said "the more intelligent the dog, the more of a heartbreaker they are."  I wasn't talking about cats at all there.

No, we didn't have cats just because of the "conditions."  We WANTED them.  My husband and I both grew up in families that always had dogs and cats.  So two of our cats we have on purpose...they are purebred cats that we purchased, back when we lived in an apartment.  Didn't have a backyard there, but we screened off our large 8' x 30' deck so the cats could go out there.  Put all kinds of nonpoisonous potted flowers and plants out there in the summer so they could have an outdoor experience, even living in a second-floor apartment. 

The other four cats were rescued.  They were strays we picked up over time.  They were trying to survive outside in the Alaskan winter.  Nobody else bothered to try and help them.  Same with two of our dogs...they were starving out on the streets and nobody was helping them.  So we did.  No, we didn't WANT them.  But we couldn't leave them out there like that.  Now that we have them, we love them.  The cats too.

For the past two and a half years, every day without fail, I put food and fresh water under my porch for the strays.  

You are trying to build a case that I don't care for my animals based on the fact that I have spoken out strongly against the practice of declawing cats.  That doesn't add up, now does it?


----------



## saveliberty

Thank you for playing and not making me wait a long time to reply.  lol

Yes, it was a false generalization.  On purpose, to show you the foolishness of comments you made prior.  I appreciate your taking in of strays.  I got all my cats from the shelter or unwanted by their owners too.  Only the last cat was declawed.  It has a personality which makes it ill suited to going outdoors and I live in town, so it is strictly an indoor cat.  I'd appreciate some consideration that this was the proper way to handle this particular cat.  When I'm at home posting, Daisy is usually by my feet getting a pet and purring.


----------



## Zona

JoeB131 said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get a dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With my work schedule, I don't have time to be fair to a dog.   I have time to be fair to a cat since a cat could care less if you live or die.  Also, my condo association doesn't allow dogs and they've evicted owners for keeping them.
Click to expand...


To hell with dogs.  Cat lover here.  In California, you have the option to de claw..(we did with our siamese cat).

Here in Arizona, we were told by the shelter you cant get cats declawed.  Turns out that was thier policy, not the states but we never did get them declawed anyway.  

If they are 100% indoor cats, declaw away.


----------



## Ringel05

Kooshdakhaa said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.
> 
> IDreally wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, you stupid bitch, I'm not a lib.
> 
> There are no residual affects from being spayed and neutered.  A female dog spayed before her first estrus may become incontinent and require medication for a lifetime, however, so it might be wise to wait until after she comes into heat the first time before spaying.
> 
> A female dog who is spayed has a reduced risk of breast cancer, however.
> 
> Here would be a human comparison...a women who has a hysterectomy versus a woman who has all her fingers amputated?  NOW which has the most impact?
> 
> *I hate it when I have to explain things to stupid people.*
Click to expand...

Considering you do it to yourself daily I can see why you would hate it.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

saveliberty said:


> Thank you for playing and not making me wait a long time to reply.  lol
> 
> Yes, it was a false generalization.  On purpose, to show you the foolishness of comments you made prior.  I appreciate your taking in of strays.  I got all my cats from the shelter or unwanted by their owners too.  Only the last cat was declawed.  It has a personality which makes it ill suited to going outdoors and I live in town, so it is strictly an indoor cat.  I'd appreciate some consideration that this was the proper way to handle this particular cat.  When I'm at home posting, Daisy is usually by my feet getting a pet and purring.



When I first signed up on this forum I mentioned that I had a couple of hot buttons.  Cruelty to animals is one of them.  

Like, you have this Zona, here, saying "declaw away," like it's just no big deal.  I hate that.  It disgusts me.

But I don't really like fighting with people.  I made my case, I just ask people to do a little research before deciding to do it.  When I declawed mine, I didn't bother to find out much about it.  After the deed was done, some time later I started reading up on it, and I thought, oh what an inconsiderate twat I am.  Seriously.  Because as I said, I knew in my heart it was wrong.  But it was oh, so conveeenient for ME.  Me me me me.

I'm out of here.  Hearing about this crap breaks my heart.  Poor little helpless kitties.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

Ringel05 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you stupid bitch, I'm not a lib.
> 
> There are no residual affects from being spayed and neutered.  A female dog spayed before her first estrus may become incontinent and require medication for a lifetime, however, so it might be wise to wait until after she comes into heat the first time before spaying.
> 
> A female dog who is spayed has a reduced risk of breast cancer, however.
> 
> Here would be a human comparison...a women who has a hysterectomy versus a woman who has all her fingers amputated?  NOW which has the most impact?
> 
> *I hate it when I have to explain things to stupid people.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Considering you do it to yourself daily I can see why you would hate it.
Click to expand...


That's all you have to say?  What about my analogy?  Why not address that instead of fighting like a woman.  Making "catty" little comments.  LOL


----------



## Ringel05

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you stupid bitch, I'm not a lib.
> 
> There are no residual affects from being spayed and neutered.  A female dog spayed before her first estrus may become incontinent and require medication for a lifetime, however, so it might be wise to wait until after she comes into heat the first time before spaying.
> 
> A female dog who is spayed has a reduced risk of breast cancer, however.
> 
> Here would be a human comparison...a women who has a hysterectomy versus a woman who has all her fingers amputated?  NOW which has the most impact?
> 
> *I hate it when I have to explain things to stupid people.*
> 
> 
> 
> Considering you do it to yourself daily I can see why you would hate it.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's all you have to say?  What about my analogy?  Why not address that instead of fighting like a woman.  Making "catty" little comments.  LOL
Click to expand...


I already answered you in a previous post, told you what you were doing from a psychological standpoint and you apparently chose to ignore it so why bother giving you the courtesy of anything except deserved derision.  Besides my last response was dead on the mark considering how stupid you constantly prove yourself to be.


----------



## tinydancer

Mr Clean said:


> Don't do it!
> 
> It will render your cat defenseless should he get out.
> 
> But on the other hand, if you have an animal in your house that destroys your furniture and creates a liability problem, you may as well get a dog.
> 
> Not that I have anything against cats,  but I suspect that cat people really want a dog anyway but don't want the bother.  And they are a big pain in the ass but a whole lot better company and a lot more fun than a cat.





Just to clear this up. If you know cats, they club and bring in their opponent with their front claws and do the demo dance with their back paws in motion. holy toledo it's something to behold.

That's on a one on one. Now to dogs. Depends on the size of the dog. I've seen feral work large dogs from a distance and you would swear Morris had just become a freaking tiger.

Cats are just so awesome. I have no words really. I love them to death.

Now to declawing. If it means that a cat gets a shot at a home by being declawed, I'll take declawing for a thousand Alex.


----------



## tinydancer

Kooshdakhaa said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.
> 
> IDreally wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, you stupid bitch, I'm not a lib.
> 
> There are no residual affects from being spayed and neutered.  A female dog spayed before her first estrus may become incontinent and require medication for a lifetime, however, so it might be wise to wait until after she comes into heat the first time before spaying.
> 
> A female dog who is spayed has a reduced risk of breast cancer, however.
> 
> Here would be a human comparison...a women who has a hysterectomy versus a woman who has all her fingers amputated?  NOW which has the most impact?
> 
> I hate it when I have to explain things to stupid people.
Click to expand...


Yowzah. Go back and read my post. I never called you personally anything.

But now that you want to go personal, I'll dance. And you have now entered a world of trouble. 

I really wanted to come back in and let you know that exactly where I live less 2 miles down my road there is an intersection of a highway and a rural road.

A lady who passed away last winter used to accept all dump offs of cats and fed them and cared for these that stayed with her. But she died last winter. Now I'm in a real hard part of weather in the north. On the edge of what you would call a State Forest. Husband was grief stricken stopped feeding the cats. 

We banded together and my one neighbor, bless her soul, with food we donated started going over daily and feeding all of them. Our local vet started a free spay and neuter program and for the most part we've got all the cats in different cow and hog barns. Big community effort. And not only did we save most of the cats, but I think a lot of people learned that to have a cat have a litter (so many parents want their children to experience this) and not be prepared to deal with the kittens is one of the most irresponsible lessons you can teach your children.

Every one has a different story. Your blanket condemnation of anyone who declaws though is disturbing.


----------



## saveliberty

My indoor cat has caught two bats and several mice over the years.  If you move and are small she will get you.


----------



## koshergrl

tinydancer said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> My Pyewacket died a couple of years back at almost 21. So I think I can speak as an individual as a good person who has been owned by a cat.
> 
> #1 rule never ever insult another cat owner. Why? because all of our lives and our situations are different.
> 
> #1 rule shut up that you are a great cat owner we don't want to hear it. if we are bitching it means we really have a problem.
> 
> #1 rule always shut up and just try to help any cat owner thru whatever hell they are going thru. because they are hurting.
> 
> And the most important rule
> 
> #1 don't ever tell me I don't love cats that was the most reviling part of your post. How dare you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners. I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed. It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life. I regret it dearly. How self-centered I was.
> 
> IDreally wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something. Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed. Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
Click to expand...

 
Again, they don't use their uterus and their balls to walk and climb. They do use their feet and claws. And there's a purpose to elminating the sexual organs that actually benefits the cats themselves....it makes them healthier.

Not so with removing the claws. It's a purely selfish operation that does affect how they move...for no other reason than the convenience of the owners.

It's right up there with docking tails and ears...except tails and ears aren't weight bearing appendages.

Like I said, people have teh right to mutilate their own animals, they are, after all, animals. But don't pretend it's for the benefit of the animal, because it's not. It's entirely at the caprice of the owner, and actually hinders the cat.


----------



## JoeB131

Mr Clean said:


> Don't do it!
> 
> It will render your cat defenseless should he get out.
> 
> But on the other hand, if you have an animal in your house that destroys your furniture and creates a liability problem, you may as well get a dog.
> 
> Not that I have anything against cats,  but I suspect that cat people really want a dog anyway but don't want the bother.  And they are a big pain in the ass but a whole lot better company and a lot more fun than a cat.



I think it's a matter of being fair to the animal.  

A dog needs what you call the "bother" because it is by nature, a "pack" animal. It needs to be a part of "pack", and it's ancestor was a wolf that was too stupid to realize the things walking on two legs aren't the same species.  If I had the time to spend with a dog, I'd love to have one.  I don't, and I'd want to be fair to the animal. 

A cat, on the other hand, is more self-sufficient. It can subsist on less attention. (My cats, however, do get upset if I leave on business or vacation for any length of time, even if I designate a qualified caregiver.) 

Not that cats aren't fun in their own way. Their curiousity, their playfulness, makes them entertaining.


----------



## Ringel05

koshergrl said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners. I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed. It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life. I regret it dearly. How self-centered I was.
> 
> IDreally wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something. Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed. Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, they don't use their uterus and their balls to walk and climb. They do use their feet and claws. And there's a purpose to elminating the sexual organs that actually benefits the cats themselves....it makes them healthier.
> 
> Not so with removing the claws. It's a purely selfish operation that does affect how they move...for no other reason than the convenience of the owners.
> 
> It's right up there with docking tails and ears...except tails and ears aren't weight bearing appendages.
> 
> Like I said, people have teh right to mutilate their own animals, they are, after all, animals. But don't pretend it's for the benefit of the animal, because it's not. It's entirely at the caprice of the owner, and actually hinders the cat.
Click to expand...


Don't tell me you too......... *sigh*
People, stop reading the god damned PETA pamphlets, they're lying to you.


----------



## koshergrl

I don't read peta.

I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc. 

I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....


----------



## Ringel05

koshergrl said:


> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....



I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on.  None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones.  We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.


----------



## JohnA

saveliberty said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> [What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners.  I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed.  It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life.  I regret it dearly.  How self-centered I was.
> 
> I really wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something.  Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed.  Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a crock of shit.  The number of clawed cats FAR outweighs the small number of declawed ones in shelters.  A person incapable of showing human compassion certainly cannot show it toward an animal and be an emotionally healthy person.  That is a fact.
Click to expand...

 well yes  im a volunteer in a animal shelter and the  reason the cats there  are mostly cats with claws is  because they  are outdoor or  feral .
 declawed  cats are indoor and most owners take care not to let them outside .

 by the  way i see you cant discuss the subject intelligently without given me a neg rep   not nice
 ive never given a neg rep unless its to return one left for me ,
 obviously  you dont have consideration for other peoples   point of view  many of us have had  cats  as companions for years as well as you


----------



## tinydancer

koshergrl said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you don't understand, tinydancer, is I don't care about cat owners. I care about the cats.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, I once had two cats declawed. It was one of the most shameful things I ever did in my life. I regret it dearly. How self-centered I was.
> 
> IDreally wish people who don't like animals with claws would just get gerbils, or something. Not cats.
> 
> Of course, it's an entirely different matter to rescue a cat who's already been declawed. Amazing how many of those end up getting dumped off at the local Animal Control center.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, they don't use their uterus and their balls to walk and climb. They do use their feet and claws. And there's a purpose to elminating the sexual organs that actually benefits the cats themselves....it makes them healthier.
> 
> Not so with removing the claws. It's a purely selfish operation that does affect how they move...for no other reason than the convenience of the owners.
> 
> It's right up there with docking tails and ears...except tails and ears aren't weight bearing appendages.
> 
> Like I said, people have teh right to mutilate their own animals, they are, after all, animals. But don't pretend it's for the benefit of the animal, because it's not. It's entirely at the caprice of the owner, and actually hinders the cat.
Click to expand...


With all due respect, my cats are indoor beasties. I frankly would never declaw.  BUT if it made a difference where someone could have a cat or the cat goes to a grave, lets take away those nails. If I had an option. And when you want to tell me I capriciously might  declaw a cat, tell me after you learn my best jammy legged guy Pyewacket made it to almost to 21.

Here's where I have to go, fuck off. You have a cat as your best buddy for almost 21 years longer than most husbands, come back to me.

Now to docking ears and tails, do you understand a hunt and why certain breeds were first docked?

And when you enter my world which is a catahoula world, bear in mind I really really know my shit.


----------



## tinydancer

Ringel05 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on.  None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones.  We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
> Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.
Click to expand...


I used to watch Hershey. Yes she was a chocalate point siamese that my husbands ex wife never had an any imagination in naming a beastie.

But Hersh would grab Pyewacket with her front legs, declawed, but just grab him and nail the new little kitty with her back legs going a freaking mile a minute and killing him with her teeth at the same time.

Holy freaking toledo!!! I'm still amazed Wacky loved her in the end. But they formed a bond. Go figure. Cat world. But trust me declawed didn't mean jack shit.


----------



## JohnA

tinydancer said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you spay or neuter?
> 
> Okey dokey, let's examine spaying and neutering.
> 
> Rip out uterus.  Check.
> 
> Castrate male  Check.
> 
> Front claws compared to balls and a uterus considered cruel by a dipshit lib: Check.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, they don't use their uterus and their balls to walk and climb. They do use their feet and claws. And there's a purpose to elminating the sexual organs that actually benefits the cats themselves....it makes them healthier.
> 
> Not so with removing the claws. It's a purely selfish operation that does affect how they move...for no other reason than the convenience of the owners.
> 
> It's right up there with docking tails and ears...except tails and ears aren't weight bearing appendages.
> 
> Like I said, people have teh right to mutilate their own animals, they are, after all, animals. But don't pretend it's for the benefit of the animal, because it's not. It's entirely at the caprice of the owner, and actually hinders the cat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With all due respect, my cats are indoor beasties. I frankly (with the exception of working cats like barn cats) would never declaw. And when you want to tell me I capriciously might  declaw a cat, tell me after you learn my best jammy legged guy Pyewacket made it to almost to 21.
> 
> Here's where I have to go, fuck off. You have a cat as your best buddy for almost 21 years longer than most husbands, come back to me.
> 
> Now to docking ears and tails, do you understand a hunt and why certain breeds were first docked?
> 
> And when you enter my world which is a catahoula world, bear in mind I really really know my shit.
Click to expand...

I have had  cats since  i was a teen many years ago 
 I have two indoor  cats not declawed one is almost 18 years old and weights  21 lbs yes he is *neutered  * 
 the other is a female 4 yes old she is *spayed * 
 I also have a outdoor cat  who was feral lives in the garage and yes   he never comes inside and the other two never go out even if I forget to shut the door


----------



## tinydancer

JohnA said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, they don't use their uterus and their balls to walk and climb. They do use their feet and claws. And there's a purpose to elminating the sexual organs that actually benefits the cats themselves....it makes them healthier.
> 
> Not so with removing the claws. It's a purely selfish operation that does affect how they move...for no other reason than the convenience of the owners.
> 
> It's right up there with docking tails and ears...except tails and ears aren't weight bearing appendages.
> 
> Like I said, people have teh right to mutilate their own animals, they are, after all, animals. But don't pretend it's for the benefit of the animal, because it's not. It's entirely at the caprice of the owner, and actually hinders the cat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect, my cats are indoor beasties. I frankly (with the exception of working cats like barn cats) would never declaw. And when you want to tell me I capriciously might  declaw a cat, tell me after you learn my best jammy legged guy Pyewacket made it to almost to 21.
> 
> Here's where I have to go, fuck off. You have a cat as your best buddy for almost 21 years longer than most husbands, come back to me.
> 
> Now to docking ears and tails, do you understand a hunt and why certain breeds were first docked?
> 
> And when you enter my world which is a catahoula world, bear in mind I really really know my shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have had  cats since  i was a teen many years ago
> I have two indoor  cats not declawed one is almost 18 years old and weights  21 lbs yes he is *neutered  *
> the other is a female 4 yes old she is *spayed *
> I also have a outdoor cat  who was feral lives in the garage and yes   he never comes inside and the other two never go out even if I forget to shut the door
Click to expand...


You are the perfect human being owned by cats.

Each is unique. 

That's the only point I was trying to make ever. All of them are so different. I've had feral friends in Tennessee, I've had Hershey my husbands siamese, and my doll of dolls Cola's lil Nitro my burmese who I adored, to pyewacket a foundling orange and white buddy for almost 21 years, to my girl that I put up a singular thread, my sweet pea, a rescue who just went to rainbow bridge.

Have to love them all and never ever condemn anyone who enters a feline world and shares their existence.


----------



## Flopper

JoeB131 said:


> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.


Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers.  Cat's need their claws.  They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture.  It helps them climb, jump, and play.  Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it.  And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless.  Imagine having all your fingernails cut out.  A lot of vets will not do the operation.  I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.  

We have had at least a dozen cats over many years.  The best cats were the ones with claws.  I think they were more confident and just more fun to own.  If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.


----------



## Flopper

You should have your cats spayed or neutered and microchiped.  Cats can reproduce at an astounding rate.  In most cities, there are a huge number of feral cats due primarily to irresponsible owners.  Life for these animals is pretty miserable.  On average they live only about 4 years.  Rarely do they have enough food.  Most of their kittens die.  They carry and spread diseases to other cats and often die from malnutrition and disease or there're eaten by other animals.

Domestic cats on the streets don't last near as long as ferals.  Domestic cats that have been declawed cannot hunt and thus have a very limited food source, humans. Although humans are their only source of food, many learn rather quickly  not to trust humans.  They search for food and a home until a car or disease ends their life.

If your cat is microchipped and is turned into a shelter, there is good chance you will get your kitty back.


----------



## Vel

koshergrl said:


> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....



So basically you're saying that you won't give enough of yourself to rescue a cat from a shelter, but that you're happy to sit in judgement on someone who IS willing to save that life?


----------



## koshergrl

Ringel05 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
> Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.
Click to expand...

 
I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".

I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.

They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.

Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay.


----------



## Flopper

koshergrl said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
> Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".
> 
> I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.
> 
> They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.
> 
> Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay.
Click to expand...

You can own a dog, but you can't really own a cat.  Yes, you can buy a cat and you have a receipt to prove ownership but they almost never recognizes that ownership.  Dogs are pack animals and submit to authority.   Cat's don't.  A dog loves you because you're the master.  A cat loves you because it chooses to do so.

I guess if you're more concerned about your furniture than your cat, then you will declaw the animal, but if that's the case why not just get a cat statue and skip the cat box cleaning and feeding.


----------



## tinydancer

Flopper said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers.  Cat's need their claws.  They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture.  It helps them climb, jump, and play.  Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it.  And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless.  Imagine having all your fingernails cut out.  A lot of vets will not do the operation.  I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.
> 
> We have had at least a dozen cats over many years.  The best cats were the ones with claws.  I think they were more confident and just more fun to own.  If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.
Click to expand...


Claws are not anything other than nails. To make this out like cats are losing all ability to live is so foolish. 

Please. And I'm not a fan of the procedure. But I do consider it no different than being part and parcel of spaying and neutering. 

And those that would decry others in the cat world who have adopted a cat that has been declawed or those that would declaw to give a cat a home are the type of rigid individuals who would see animals die than go into a home with children.

I've seen this crap in my life. The Toronto Humane Society people had the most bizarre rules for adoption. On the bright side all the bastards are getting prosecuted now for a variety of things, but these people while taking in millions of dollars in donations would rather execute a cat or a dog if you did not meet these insane rigid standards they put in place.

All for the "animal's welfare".


----------



## saveliberty

Vel6377 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So basically you're saying that you won't give enough of yourself to rescue a cat from a shelter, but that you're happy to sit in judgement on someone who IS willing to save that life?
Click to expand...


No, but if need someone to take the cat out back and bash it with a pipe, she's your gal!


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

tinydancer said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on.  None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones.  We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
> Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I used to watch Hershey. Yes she was a chocalate point siamese that my husbands ex wife never had an any imagination in naming a beastie.
> 
> But Hersh would grab Pyewacket with her front legs, declawed, but just grab him and nail the new little kitty with her back legs going a freaking mile a minute and killing him with her teeth at the same time.
> 
> Holy freaking toledo!!! I'm still amazed Wacky loved her in the end. But they formed a bond. Go figure. Cat world. But trust me declawed didn't mean jack shit.
Click to expand...



Yeah, well, I have dogs and cats both, and I've seen what the cats do when a dog gets too pushy with them.  They swipe at the dog with their CLAWS.  Which is how my dogs know not to get too pushy with the cats...once is enough when it comes to a swipe on the delicate nose with claws.  

Go ahead, rationalize away.  I'm glad I was able to wake up and realize what a selfish bitch I was being when I declawed cats.

The least I can do to atone is speak up about it.

By the way, my cats do stuff like that, grabbing and kicking with the back feet, and biting.  It's all part of their arsenal, totally typical cat fighting behavior, in addition to using their front claws.  My house cats will get into spats, but interestingly enough, no one ever gets hurt.  A stray I brought in, on the other hand, had a large wound on his front shoulder.  I asked the vet if he had been bitten by a dog and he said no...most likely bitten by another cat.  A dog would've done more damage.  So out on the streets, in a survival situation, they do hurt each other.  And plenty of people declaw their cats and let them go outside, or even worse end up abandoning them at some point.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

tinydancer said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers.  Cat's need their claws.  They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture.  It helps them climb, jump, and play.  Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it.  And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless.  Imagine having all your fingernails cut out.  A lot of vets will not do the operation.  I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.
> 
> We have had at least a dozen cats over many years.  The best cats were the ones with claws.  I think they were more confident and just more fun to own.  If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Claws are not anything other than nails. To make this out like cats are losing all ability to live is so foolish.
> 
> Please. And I'm not a fan of the procedure. But I do consider it no different than being part and parcel of spaying and neutering.
> 
> And those that would decry others in the cat world who have adopted a cat that has been declawed or those that would declaw to give a cat a home are the type of rigid individuals who would see animals die than go into a home with children.
> 
> I've seen this crap in my life. The Toronto Humane Society people had the most bizarre rules for adoption. On the bright side all the bastards are getting prosecuted now for a variety of things, but these people while taking in millions of dollars in donations would rather execute a cat or a dog if you did not meet these insane rigid standards they put in place.
> 
> All for the "animal's welfare".
Click to expand...


First of all, cats claws are not at all like our fingernails or dog toenails.  They are connected to bone, our fingernails are not.  

Secondly, no one is saying declawed cats lose all ability to live.

Thirdly, it is totally different that spaying and neutering.  Which would you rather have, a hysterectomy or all your fingers cut off at the first joint?  Huh?  Sure the cat will adapt, but it shouldn't have to adapt.  That's the point.

Fourthly, no one is decrying anyone who adopts cats that are already declawed.  In fact, I recommend that caring and intelligent people DO adopt cats someone has already declawed, because they are special needs kitties now.

Quit twisting what people are saying.

By the way, if you had seen what people who work in rescue have seen, you would understand some of those rules that are put in place for adopting animals.  Unimaginable cruelty and suffering that people subject animals to.  That's why they're careful about who  adopts the animals.


----------



## Provocateur

koshergrl said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
> Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".
> 
> I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.
> 
> They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.
> 
> Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. *Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay*.
Click to expand...


San Francisco is trying to ban circumcision.  This must make you happy.


Who is getting emotional?


----------



## koshergrl

Vel6377 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So basically you're saying that you won't give enough of yourself to rescue a cat from a shelter, but that you're happy to sit in judgement on someone who IS willing to save that life?
Click to expand...

 
What the hell are you talking about? That's quite a stretch. I've rescued plenty of cats. I don't have them now because I have a dog that doesn't tolerate them


----------



## koshergrl

Incidentally, a shelter dog.


----------



## WillowTree

I must be the odd man out but that's okay. I've owned 5 kitties in my lifetime. Pookie, Bandit, Samantha, Mama Kitty and Diddle McFiddle. Samatha died age 18, Pookie and Bandit were around 15,, Mama and Diddle are still with me, Diddle is still a baby .. all were and have been declawed. They are happy and I am happy.. Outdoor kitties with claws have a life expectancy of what? 3-5 years..Indoors they are happy, well fed, disease free and live like kings. and we have hunting parties every day.


----------



## signelect

Contrary to popular opinion cats can be trained.  Claws are their only defense if they every get outside they can be killed because they can't fight and they can't climb.


----------



## Ringel05

koshergrl said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read peta.
> 
> I just know animal anatomy, and I know cats, believe me..I've spent lots of time with them, watching them, vetting them, etc.
> 
> I don't have any myself, a cat's life is a transitory thing and I don't like to mess with them. But my mom on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm extremely familiar with anatomy, I've also had cats for 20 years straight and another 10 years, off and on. None of our cats suffered in any way shape or form from loosing their front claws nor did or do they look "mutilated" and my cats aren't the only ones. We've never had to send them to a kitty shrink or had a prosthesis made and scheduled them for months of physical therapy plus other than cat nip and milk they haven't become substance addicted.
> Stop with the emotionally driven bull shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't get emotional about cats, for God's sakes, I killed one with a pipe once. If you think there's no suffering involved in nipping off those toes, and you don't consider it mutilation to do the same, I really don't know what to tell you, except maybe you should look up the term "mutilation".
> 
> I've said over adn over, they're yours to do with as you please, I could care less. But you're lying to yourself when you claim that cats don't need their claws, and it's not mutilation to remove them.
> 
> They DO use their claws, they are a part of their foot, with a specific purpose. It isn't like a dew claw that really has no purpose.
> 
> Looks to me like you're the one getting all emotional. Cut off all four feet if you like, I could care less. Then they wouldn't move at all, the only damage they'd cause would be when they crap where they lay.
Click to expand...


I guess I assume people know the difference between conscious emotive rationalization and unconsciousness emotive rationalization (rationalization refers to the continuous cognitive construct, not "making excuses").  No I'm not lying, there is no objective proof that cats cannot survive in the wild lacking their front claws or that their survival rate is any lower than fully clawed cats. 
As to your claim of mutilation, while "technically" correct by one aspect of the definition, given it's social connotation, that statement lends itself more to the classic example of unconscious emotive rationalization.
Oh and I never once claimed their claws had no purpose though in controlled environments (like a household) that purpose is in all reality unnecessary by today's standards, i.e. cats, for the most part in suburban areas, are no longer needed to rid the household of rodents which was their "social" role in the past. 
So am I getting emotional over it, no, I'm getting clinical over it.


----------



## koshergrl

So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.

I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.

But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.


----------



## Ringel05

koshergrl said:


> So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.
> 
> I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.
> 
> But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.



Whatever you say Skippy.


----------



## koshergrl

*insert smiley here* since I apparently can't find an icon...


----------



## WillowTree

koshergrl said:


> So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.
> 
> I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.
> 
> But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.



You are of course welcome to your opinion and it is respected. I however reserve the same right. And, all this pro and con stuff was discussed with the chopper upper aka vet in question. so thanks but no thanks.


----------



## Ringel05

koshergrl said:


> *insert smiley here* since I apparently can't find an icon...





 with a capital D)


----------



## koshergrl

D: :d

Yeah, just not working for me but you get the picture.


----------



## Flopper

tinydancer said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers.  Cat's need their claws.  They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture.  It helps them climb, jump, and play.  Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it.  And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless.  Imagine having all your fingernails cut out.  A lot of vets will not do the operation.  I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.
> 
> We have had at least a dozen cats over many years.  The best cats were the ones with claws.  I think they were more confident and just more fun to own.  If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Claws are not anything other than nails. To make this out like cats are losing all ability to live is so foolish.
> 
> Please. And I'm not a fan of the procedure. But I do consider it no different than being part and parcel of spaying and neutering.
> 
> And those that would decry others in the cat world who have adopted a cat that has been declawed or those that would declaw to give a cat a home are the type of rigid individuals who would see animals die than go into a home with children.
> 
> I've seen this crap in my life. The Toronto Humane Society people had the most bizarre rules for adoption. On the bright side all the bastards are getting prosecuted now for a variety of things, but these people while taking in millions of dollars in donations would rather execute a cat or a dog if you did not meet these insane rigid standards they put in place.
> 
> All for the "animal's welfare".
Click to expand...

As I said, if the your furniture, rug or whatever is more important than your cat, declaw the animal.  However, anyone who knows anything about cats knows that it effects the cats ability to climb, their balance, and their ability to defend themselves.  When they loose their claws they become fearful of jumping, living on the floor or low pieces of furniture.  They use their claws to pick things up just like humans use their fingers.  If they get lost, their chance of survival is not too good.  They can't hunt and they can't defend themselves.

I've had many cats with claws and some that were declawed.  IMHO, cats with claws are happier and more fun to own.


----------



## Ringel05

koshergrl said:


> D: :d
> 
> Yeah, just not working for me but you get the picture.



Don't use ().


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

WillowTree said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.
> 
> I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.
> 
> But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are of course welcome to your opinion and it is respected. I however reserve the same right. And, all this pro and con stuff was discussed with the chopper upper aka vet in question. so thanks but no thanks.
Click to expand...


Oh, great, all the pros and cons were discussed with the person who makes money doing the procedure.  Good thinking.

My cats not only have their claws, but they have a setup that enables them to experience the outdoors in a safe way.  They get to climb up the trunks of trees (to a point), smell the flowers, chase bugs, chew on grass and experience what it feels like to walk directly on the ground and feel the wind in their faces.  Then they get to come in and sleep in their warm, safe beds and have  plenty to eat and catnip and toys to play with.  

I'd rather be my cat than your cat.  They have it all...the longevity of indoor cats, the fun of getting to go outdoors, AND their claws.


----------



## koshergrl

tinydancer said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that is the question.
> 
> Back in February, I got a new cat to replace my companion of 15 years.
> 
> I didn't declaw the old cat because he was sufficiently mellow to where that wasn't an issue.
> 
> this new cat, while affectionate, seems to like to use it's claws whenever possible- on the furniture, on me, etc.
> 
> I'm reluctant to declaw, but obviously, the damage the animal is doing is going to set me back quite a bit, and there is always the liability if she claws a guest.
> 
> 
> 
> Removing a cats claws is like removing your fingers. Cat's need their claws. They use them every day, not just to scratch your furniture. It helps them climb, jump, and play. Without their claws there're almost defenseless and they know it. And don't let anyone tell you removing their claws is painless. Imagine having all your fingernails cut out. A lot of vets will not do the operation. I have not seen any animal welfare groups recommend it.
> 
> We have had at least a dozen cats over many years. The best cats were the ones with claws. I think they were more confident and just more fun to own. If you can stand an occasional scratch, let your cat keep its claw the way nature intended.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Claws are not anything other than nails. To make this out like cats are losing all ability to live is so foolish.
> 
> Please. And I'm not a fan of the procedure. But I do consider it no different than being part and parcel of spaying and neutering.
> 
> And those that would decry others in the cat world who have adopted a cat that has been declawed or those that would declaw to give a cat a home are the type of rigid individuals who would see animals die than go into a home with children.
> 
> I've seen this crap in my life. The Toronto Humane Society people had the most bizarre rules for adoption. On the bright side all the bastards are getting prosecuted now for a variety of things, but these people while taking in millions of dollars in donations would rather execute a cat or a dog if you did not meet these insane rigid standards they put in place.
> 
> All for the "animal's welfare".
Click to expand...

 
Do your nails have a blood supply and nerves imbedded in them?

I didn't think so.

Do you use your nails for traction and balance, and are they retractable to help with propulsion

Nope?

So they are not simple nails. I've seen anials quicked and get severe infections and pretty substantial bloodloss based on careless trimming and removal.


----------



## tinydancer

Kooshdakhaa said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.
> 
> I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.
> 
> But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are of course welcome to your opinion and it is respected. I however reserve the same right. And, all this pro and con stuff was discussed with the chopper upper aka vet in question. so thanks but no thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, great, all the pros and cons were discussed with the person who makes money doing the procedure.  Good thinking.
> 
> My cats not only have their claws, but they have a setup that enables them to experience the outdoors in a safe way.  They get to climb up the trunks of trees (to a point), smell the flowers, chase bugs, chew on grass and experience what it feels like to walk directly on the ground and feel the wind in their faces.  Then they get to come in and sleep in their warm, safe beds and have  plenty to eat and catnip and toys to play with.
> 
> I'd rather be my cat than your cat.  They have it all...the longevity of indoor cats, the fun of getting to go outdoors, AND their claws.
Click to expand...


I'd say stop being so judgemental. I've been owned by cats all my life. 

Are you freaking getting it? I am not a cat owner. I am wonderously possessed by them. Man oh man I hate this snotiness.

What a rotten thing to say to another cat person. "I'd rather be my cat than your cat"? What type of bullshit is this?

From Smokey to Titfinder, Chingachkook to Baby Kitty aka Pussy Galore to Hershey to Pyewacket to Cola's Lil Nitro to Niakawa and Sonya, C80, C82, Sick Boy, Sarge all my rescues the one thing I have never done is attacked another "cat" person".

This is sick and bitchy.

EDIT TO ADD; and oh so catty


----------



## Unkotare

Do you really think that writing out a list of cat names gives you some kind of moral get-out-of-being-a-fucking-monster-free card?


----------



## tinydancer

Unkotare said:


> Do you really think that writing out a list of cat names gives you some kind of moral get-out-of-being-a-fucking-monster-free card?



Oh I'll really make you shit your pants now. 

My favorite color is realtree depending on the season. My fave on line mall is Cabela's. Bambi is to be savored in several different ways. I have an awesome cranberry side dish.

Oh and thumper to me is hasenpfeffer. And yes I fish too. With fucking bad ass hooks.

I rescue cats. But I am EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL.



One ply for the planet or two ply?


----------



## tinydancer

You know writing all those names just made me feel good. These are the beasties who I have shared my life with. And I am one happy camper that they all came into my life and we lived so many different times in so many different ways.

You see I never judged them, they never judged me. We were family. So you can be judgemental pricks all you want, but I won't be. I loved my cats, no matter which way they've come at me. They were and still are my friends.


----------



## koshergrl

I love Cabela's too

Am I evil now?


----------



## tinydancer

I hope someone finally gets it. I have never ever declawed a cat. I got one called Hershey who lived with me for years on end. Chocalate point. Ex wife for my husband no imagination with names.

All I've been trying to say in this thread, is don't condemn. Educate. But as soon as you start wailing on people that they are....

what was I called again "a monster"? 

People go deaf when you do that shit. And a rescue cat could die today. Educate. Stop calling names.


----------



## tinydancer

koshergrl said:


> I love Cabela's too
> 
> Am I evil now?



lol

Apparently. Hey I've been in battles to beat the band over Ashley Judd and her stupidity over Palin.

Stupid bitch didn't even know that the Governor of Alaska is obligated by law to control predators for the First Nations.


----------



## WillowTree

Kooshdakhaa said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.
> 
> I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.
> 
> But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are of course welcome to your opinion and it is respected. I however reserve the same right. And, all this pro and con stuff was discussed with the chopper upper aka vet in question. so thanks but no thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, great, all the pros and cons were discussed with the person who makes money doing the procedure.  Good thinking.
> 
> My cats not only have their claws, but they have a setup that enables them to experience the outdoors in a safe way.  They get to climb up the trunks of trees (to a point), smell the flowers, chase bugs, chew on grass and experience what it feels like to walk directly on the ground and feel the wind in their faces.  Then they get to come in and sleep in their warm, safe beds and have  plenty to eat and catnip and toys to play with.
> 
> I'd rather be my cat than your cat.  They have it all...the longevity of indoor cats, the fun of getting to go outdoors, AND their claws.
Click to expand...


yay for you. moron.


----------



## WillowTree

Kooshdakhaa said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you read more into it than was meant by it, based on your own emotional response. Thank you, apology accepted.
> 
> I honestly don't care if people declaw their cats. I, personally, think it's silly and unnecessary...if your furniture is so valuable that you can't bear the thought of kitties clawing it, perhaps a different pet is in order. But that's just me. Declaw them all. Bob their tails, crop their ears....give them tattoos and colored contacts if that's your thing, I don't care.
> 
> But don't waste your breath trying to convince me it isn't mutiliation. Of course it's mutiliation. You can justify it, and I don't care if you do, I trust you take care of them and the trauma is fairly minimal (provided they don't get infections). I just don't like it when people try to pull the wool over my eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are of course welcome to your opinion and it is respected. I however reserve the same right. And, all this pro and con stuff was discussed with the chopper upper aka vet in question. so thanks but no thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Oh, great, all the pros and cons were discussed with the person who makes money doing the procedure.  Good thinking.*
> My cats not only have their claws, but they have a setup that enables them to experience the outdoors in a safe way.  They get to climb up the trunks of trees (to a point), smell the flowers, chase bugs, chew on grass and experience what it feels like to walk directly on the ground and feel the wind in their faces.  Then they get to come in and sleep in their warm, safe beds and have  plenty to eat and catnip and toys to play with.
> 
> I'd rather be my cat than your cat.  They have it all...the longevity of indoor cats, the fun of getting to go outdoors, AND their claws.
Click to expand...


He's the expert asshole.


----------



## koshergrl

I think the set up sounds incredibly cool.

I was looking at fencing a few weeks back and found this really interesting thing (just for interest sake, it appears you have your situation figured out)....it was a rolling bar that goes along the top of the fence that prevents animalsfrom being ableto pull themselves over. It even keeps birds from hanging out on the top of the fence...let me find it. I just thought it was neat. I think a cat would probably be able to figure it out, but who knows....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNM2NM8tJAw]Dog Safety Fence - YouTube[/ame]

I thought that was the coolest thing. It primarily geared to canines, I know, but still...


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> Do you really think that writing out a list of cat names gives you some kind of moral get-out-of-being-a-fucking-monster-free card?



We have already figured out who the monster is here.


----------



## Unkotare

tinydancer said:


> You see I never judged them, they never judged me. .





The difference being that you had a choice, and that they were not in a position to rip your fingernails out and then decide for you that it didn't bother you at all.


----------



## Unkotare

saveliberty said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think that writing out a list of cat names gives you some kind of moral get-out-of-being-a-fucking-monster-free card?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have already figured out who the monster is here.
Click to expand...



NO, you have figured out who you want to say it is regardless of the facts.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

koshergrl said:


> I think the set up sounds incredibly cool.
> 
> I was looking at fencing a few weeks back and found this really interesting thing (just for interest sake, it appears you have your situation figured out)....it was a rolling bar that goes along the top of the fence that prevents animalsfrom being ableto pull themselves over. It even keeps birds from hanging out on the top of the fence...let me find it. I just thought it was neat. I think a cat would probably be able to figure it out, but who knows....
> 
> Dog Safety Fence - YouTube
> 
> I thought that was the coolest thing. It primarily geared to canines, I know, but still...



Ah, I remember seeing those rollers when I was researching how to keep my cats inside the fence.  I can't remember why I didn't choose to go that route.  It probably would have been easier to install than what I did.  I think I chose the netting because the materials were readily available locally.  But those rolling bars are a pretty ingenious idea, and I believe they would work for cats as well as dogs.

When we first moved into our house, my husband framed the back deck and screened it in so the cats could go out there.  Then we got a fence built and did the netting at the top.  It was so cool the first time we let the cats out there.  They were like, "Really? We can go out there???"  Eventually they started running up the fence (chain link).  But then they'd see that wobbly netting up above and come back down. Cats don't like to climb on things that are not solid, and they've never even gone so far as to grab on to that netting.  They just come on back down the fence.  Actually, now they don't even bother to climb the fence anymore.


----------



## Synthaholic

Without reading this thread, my only addition is that you must keep that animal indoors from now on if you declaw (which I wouldn't do - that's my vote).  If it ever gets out of the house, it is completely defenseless.


----------



## tinydancer

Synthaholic said:


> Without reading this thread, my only addition is that you must keep that animal indoors from now on if you declaw (which I wouldn't do - that's my vote).  If it ever gets out of the house, it is completely defenseless.



I'm a big indoor person. I like my cats where I can cuddle them. But to say a cat gets out and declawed is defensless, is to not recognize cats and their superiority as individuals on the planet.

I had this one cat, rescue, poindexter, could climb a tree in a hearbeat. He was such a cutie patuoutie. Man I loved him. Declawed but could climb a tree in a heartbeat. My Ruby Starr and him had such a game going on.

She would bay him up so bad. Man oh man he was a doll.


----------



## tinydancer

Disclaimer one more time:

I've never declawed. But I detest those that bitch and moan and who think they are higher and more mightier than others who are owned by cats.

Snots you are. Bitches you are. And you are horrid.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

tinydancer said:


> Disclaimer one more time:
> 
> I've never declawed. But I detest those that bitch and moan and who think they are higher and more mightier than others who are owned by cats.
> 
> Snots you are. Bitches you are. And you are horrid.



And you're nuts.


----------



## tinydancer

Kooshdakhaa said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disclaimer one more time:
> 
> I've never declawed. But I detest those that bitch and moan and who think they are higher and more mightier than others who are owned by cats.
> 
> Snots you are. Bitches you are. And you are horrid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're nuts.
Click to expand...


Pyewacket almost made it to 21 years.

FUCK OFF. 20 and a half years as my buddy and you are going to tell me I am nuts?

This is a bud who walked into my world on Thanksgiving years back all beat up pretty well smoked out, he was so tired and so  hungry.

Hershey hated him from the get go. In the end they became the best of friends.

But you in your world are going to judge me and my beasties lives.

You must be a liberal. You are a prick.


----------



## tinydancer

Unkotare said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> You see I never judged them, they never judged me. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference being that you had a choice, and that they were not in a position to rip your fingernails out and then decide for you that it didn't bother you at all.
Click to expand...


What part of "I have never declawed a cat in my life" didn't you get you pompous twit?

I've never declawed a cat. 

Did you see one post that way?

I have been putting forth the argument though that idiots like you get cats killed in shelters.


I know your type and you disgust me. Cola's Lil Nitro was out of a breeder in Windsor. She was a die for killer burmese. She was one I purchased. Actually the only one.  All of the others were rescues.  I still can't list them all being in my life.

I normally say don't judge another cat owner. But seriously you are really truly the type that gets cats offed on a daily basis in shelters because you are so freaking holier than thou.

You are a swine. And you get cats killed.


----------



## Unkotare

tinydancer said:


> I know your type and you disgust me. .




Well, there's a very simple solution to that: *GO FUCK YOURSELF*


----------



## Flopper

Cat's in general left outdoors, do not do as well as indoor cats.  Fleas, ticks, diseases, attacks by predictors, and moving vehicles take their toll.  I suppose people see cats stalking birds and think cats do just fine outdoors.

Many years ago, I worked as an assistant manger in a large apartment complex.  People would move out leaving their cats believing some kindly neighbor would take care of them.  Occasionally that happened but not often.  When a cat is abandoned and left around the house or apartment, it will usually hang around a day or so, waiting to be let in and fed.  As it becomes more hunger it will begin to roam.  Unlike dogs, who are pack animals, cats are solitary.  They hide under bushes and cars waiting for dark to search for food.  They do not seek out humans the way dogs do.  The lucky find a human but most die within a year or so.

Parks, truck stops, and rest areas seem to be a favorite place for people to dump their pets.  Unfortunately they are the worst place.  Many of the animals are run over by cars.  Maintenance people will usually run them off.  Most wander into wooded areas searching for food where they become easy pray for predators.   Cats that survive for very long usually become feral and will never find a home.

If you have to abandon your pets, take them to a shelter.  Many people think their pets stand a better chance if they are left in the neighborhood because they will be put down if left in a shelter.  Today, no kill shelters are popping up all over the country.  Those that aren't no kill shelters have a pretty good record of placing the animals.  Many shelters will attempt to place animals in other shelters if they can not place them.

Before deciding to adopt that cute kitten are puppy, you need to consider that cute little bundle of fur is going to grow into an adult dog or cat that will be dependent on you for 10 or 20 years.  If your not ready to make the commitment to care for the animal throughout its life, you shouldn't adopt it.


----------



## tinydancer

Flopper said:


> Cat's in general left outdoors, do not do as well as indoor cats.  Fleas, ticks, diseases, attacks by predictors, and moving vehicles take their toll.  I suppose people see cats stalking birds and think cats do just fine outdoors.
> 
> Many years ago, I worked as an assistant manger in a large apartment complex.  People would move out leaving their cats believing some kindly neighbor would take care of them.  Occasionally that happened but not often.  When a cat is abandoned and left around the house or apartment, it will usually hang around a day or so, waiting to be let in and fed.  As it becomes more hunger it will begin to roam.  Unlike dogs, who are pack animals, cats are solitary.  They hide under bushes and cars waiting for dark to search for food.  They do not seek out humans the way dogs do.  The lucky find a human but most die within a year or so.
> 
> Parks, truck stops, and rest areas seem to be a favorite place for people to dump their pets.  Unfortunately they are the worst place.  Many of the animals are run over by cars.  Maintenance people will usually run them off.  Most wander into wooded areas searching for food where they become easy pray for predators.   Cats that survive for very long usually become feral and will never find a home.
> 
> If you have to abandon your pets, take them to a shelter.  Many people think their pets stand a better chance if they are left in the neighborhood because they will be put down if left in a shelter.  Today, no kill shelters are popping up all over the country.  Those that aren't no kill shelters have a pretty good record of placing the animals.  Many shelters will attempt to place animals in other shelters if they can not place them.
> 
> Before deciding to adopt that cute kitten are puppy, you need to consider that cute little bundle of fur is going to grow into an adult dog or cat that will be dependent on you for 10 or 20 years.  If your not ready to make the commitment to care for the animal throughout its life, you shouldn't adopt it.



I just lost a great girl. Check out a special place for her. You will see my post a special place for her. Barn cat. She was one of the best cats who ever owned me.

I just lost her a couple of weeks back. She blessed my life so.

When people think they drop off a cat on a corner they have no idea what they are doing. Or who they are impacting.


----------



## saveliberty

Unkotare said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know your type and you disgust me. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there's a very simple solution to that: *GO FUCK YOURSELF*
Click to expand...


Way more fun watching you look like an ass.


----------



## tinydancer

Unkotare said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know your type and you disgust me. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there's a very simple solution to that: *GO FUCK YOURSELF*
Click to expand...


What a nasty little human being you are. I'm thinking Democrat from.......Detroit. Oh and you are a loser.

Big L on your forehead.


----------



## saveliberty

I don't think anyone lives in Detroit now tinydancer.


----------



## Flopper

tinydancer said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cat's in general left outdoors, do not do as well as indoor cats.  Fleas, ticks, diseases, attacks by predictors, and moving vehicles take their toll.  I suppose people see cats stalking birds and think cats do just fine outdoors.
> 
> Many years ago, I worked as an assistant manger in a large apartment complex.  People would move out leaving their cats believing some kindly neighbor would take care of them.  Occasionally that happened but not often.  When a cat is abandoned and left around the house or apartment, it will usually hang around a day or so, waiting to be let in and fed.  As it becomes more hunger it will begin to roam.  Unlike dogs, who are pack animals, cats are solitary.  They hide under bushes and cars waiting for dark to search for food.  They do not seek out humans the way dogs do.  The lucky find a human but most die within a year or so.
> 
> Parks, truck stops, and rest areas seem to be a favorite place for people to dump their pets.  Unfortunately they are the worst place.  Many of the animals are run over by cars.  Maintenance people will usually run them off.  Most wander into wooded areas searching for food where they become easy pray for predators.   Cats that survive for very long usually become feral and will never find a home.
> 
> If you have to abandon your pets, take them to a shelter.  Many people think their pets stand a better chance if they are left in the neighborhood because they will be put down if left in a shelter.  Today, no kill shelters are popping up all over the country.  Those that aren't no kill shelters have a pretty good record of placing the animals.  Many shelters will attempt to place animals in other shelters if they can not place them.
> 
> Before deciding to adopt that cute kitten are puppy, you need to consider that cute little bundle of fur is going to grow into an adult dog or cat that will be dependent on you for 10 or 20 years.  If your not ready to make the commitment to care for the animal throughout its life, you shouldn't adopt it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just lost a great girl. Check out a special place for her. You will see my post a special place for her. Barn cat. She was one of the best cats who ever owned me.
> 
> I just lost her a couple of weeks back. She blessed my life so.
> 
> When people think they drop off a cat on a corner they have no idea what they are doing. Or who they are impacting.
Click to expand...

Sorry for your lose.  I lost a wonderful kitty 3 years ago.   For the first 10 years we had her she was my  wife's cat but as she became ill she turned to me.  She would lay for hours in my lap and when I made a move to stand up, she would crawl up my chest and wrap her paws around my neck.  I know it really hurts to lose an animal you love, but you get over it.  We have 3 great cats today that we really enjoy.


----------



## Synthaholic

tinydancer said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without reading this thread, my only addition is that you must keep that animal indoors from now on if you declaw (which I wouldn't do - that's my vote).  If it ever gets out of the house, it is completely defenseless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a big indoor person.
Click to expand...


A comment about you, not cats.



> I like my cats where I can cuddle them.



You again.



> But to say a cat gets out and declawed is defensless, is to not recognize cats and their superiority as individuals on the planet.



They are not superior to other cats.  Especially ones with claws who want to fight.


----------



## Synthaholic

tinydancer said:


> Disclaimer one more time:
> 
> I've never declawed. But I detest those that bitch and moan and who think they are higher and more mightier than others who are owned by cats.
> 
> Snots you are. Bitches you are. And you are horrid.


Does anyone have a clue what she is talking about?  I don't know anyone who is owned by a cat.


----------



## Synthaholic

Flopper said:


> Cat's in general left outdoors, do not do as well as indoor cats.  Fleas, ticks, diseases, attacks by predictors, and moving vehicles take their toll.  I suppose people see cats stalking birds and think cats do just fine outdoors.
> 
> Many years ago, I worked as an assistant manger in a large apartment complex.  People would move out leaving their cats believing some kindly neighbor would take care of them.  Occasionally that happened but not often.  When a cat is abandoned and left around the house or apartment, it will usually hang around a day or so, waiting to be let in and fed.  As it becomes more hunger it will begin to roam.  Unlike dogs, who are pack animals, cats are solitary.  They hide under bushes and cars waiting for dark to search for food.  They do not seek out humans the way dogs do.  The lucky find a human but most die within a year or so.
> 
> Parks, truck stops, and rest areas seem to be a favorite place for people to dump their pets.  Unfortunately they are the worst place.  Many of the animals are run over by cars.  Maintenance people will usually run them off.  Most wander into wooded areas searching for food where they become easy pray for predators.   Cats that survive for very long usually become feral and will never find a home.
> 
> If you have to abandon your pets, take them to a shelter.  Many people think their pets stand a better chance if they are left in the neighborhood because they will be put down if left in a shelter.  Today, no kill shelters are popping up all over the country.  Those that aren't no kill shelters have a pretty good record of placing the animals.  Many shelters will attempt to place animals in other shelters if they can not place them.
> 
> Before deciding to adopt that cute kitten are puppy, you need to consider that cute little bundle of fur is going to grow into an adult dog or cat that will be dependent on you for 10 or 20 years.  If your not ready to make the commitment to care for the animal throughout its life, you shouldn't adopt it.


Excellent post.


----------



## Synthaholic

tinydancer said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cat's in general left outdoors, do not do as well as indoor cats.  Fleas, ticks, diseases, attacks by predictors, and moving vehicles take their toll.  I suppose people see cats stalking birds and think cats do just fine outdoors.
> 
> Many years ago, I worked as an assistant manger in a large apartment complex.  People would move out leaving their cats believing some kindly neighbor would take care of them.  Occasionally that happened but not often.  When a cat is abandoned and left around the house or apartment, it will usually hang around a day or so, waiting to be let in and fed.  As it becomes more hunger it will begin to roam.  Unlike dogs, who are pack animals, cats are solitary.  They hide under bushes and cars waiting for dark to search for food.  They do not seek out humans the way dogs do.  The lucky find a human but most die within a year or so.
> 
> Parks, truck stops, and rest areas seem to be a favorite place for people to dump their pets.  Unfortunately they are the worst place.  Many of the animals are run over by cars.  Maintenance people will usually run them off.  Most wander into wooded areas searching for food where they become easy pray for predators.   Cats that survive for very long usually become feral and will never find a home.
> 
> If you have to abandon your pets, take them to a shelter.  Many people think their pets stand a better chance if they are left in the neighborhood because they will be put down if left in a shelter.  Today, no kill shelters are popping up all over the country.  Those that aren't no kill shelters have a pretty good record of placing the animals.  Many shelters will attempt to place animals in other shelters if they can not place them.
> 
> Before deciding to adopt that cute kitten are puppy, you need to consider that cute little bundle of fur is going to grow into an adult dog or cat that will be dependent on you for 10 or 20 years.  If your not ready to make the commitment to care for the animal throughout its life, you shouldn't adopt it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just lost a great girl. Check out a special place for her. You will see my post a special place for her. Barn cat. *She was one of the best cats who ever owned me.
> *
> I just lost her a couple of weeks back. She blessed my life so.
> 
> When people think they drop off a cat on a corner they have no idea what they are doing. Or who they are impacting.
Click to expand...



Oh, now I understand: you're nucking futs!

We always hear about those deranged women who have 50 cats living in their house, surrounded by shit and piss, with all that stench.

Now we have one on the forum.


----------



## tinydancer

Synthaholic said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cat's in general left outdoors, do not do as well as indoor cats.  Fleas, ticks, diseases, attacks by predictors, and moving vehicles take their toll.  I suppose people see cats stalking birds and think cats do just fine outdoors.
> 
> Many years ago, I worked as an assistant manger in a large apartment complex.  People would move out leaving their cats believing some kindly neighbor would take care of them.  Occasionally that happened but not often.  When a cat is abandoned and left around the house or apartment, it will usually hang around a day or so, waiting to be let in and fed.  As it becomes more hunger it will begin to roam.  Unlike dogs, who are pack animals, cats are solitary.  They hide under bushes and cars waiting for dark to search for food.  They do not seek out humans the way dogs do.  The lucky find a human but most die within a year or so.
> 
> Parks, truck stops, and rest areas seem to be a favorite place for people to dump their pets.  Unfortunately they are the worst place.  Many of the animals are run over by cars.  Maintenance people will usually run them off.  Most wander into wooded areas searching for food where they become easy pray for predators.   Cats that survive for very long usually become feral and will never find a home.
> 
> If you have to abandon your pets, take them to a shelter.  Many people think their pets stand a better chance if they are left in the neighborhood because they will be put down if left in a shelter.  Today, no kill shelters are popping up all over the country.  Those that aren't no kill shelters have a pretty good record of placing the animals.  Many shelters will attempt to place animals in other shelters if they can not place them.
> 
> Before deciding to adopt that cute kitten are puppy, you need to consider that cute little bundle of fur is going to grow into an adult dog or cat that will be dependent on you for 10 or 20 years.  If your not ready to make the commitment to care for the animal throughout its life, you shouldn't adopt it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just lost a great girl. Check out a special place for her. You will see my post a special place for her. Barn cat. *She was one of the best cats who ever owned me.
> *
> I just lost her a couple of weeks back. She blessed my life so.
> 
> When people think they drop off a cat on a corner they have no idea what they are doing. Or who they are impacting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, now I understand: you're nucking futs!
> 
> We always hear about those deranged women who have 50 cats living in their house, surrounded by shit and piss, with all that stench.
> 
> Now we have one on the forum.
Click to expand...


Why would you say that?  I don't have 50 cats living in my house. But I will tell you what I am.

I am a real person who lives in the middle of nowhere by choice. And I love it. I have wild turkeys who run down my front yard. I have these awesome vultures who migrate over me year on year.

I know birds like eagles who live in my back yard punk. Look up Sandilands. 

I'm not some punk ass kid on a keyboard. I've not just had a life. I've had a life and I lived it.

I have a life. And I love it. I have a Gold, Platinum and Double Platinum and a Juno. I have been coast to coast in North America. 

I am blessed.

Oh, and look up Dana's Song.

I never saw this before. Ron put it out there. I don't even know what to say.


----------



## Unkotare

tinydancer said:


> I will tell you what I am.
> 
> I am a real person who lives in the middle of nowhere by choice. And I love it. I have wild turkeys who run down my front yard. I have these awesome vultures who migrate over me year on year.






I'm guessing you have Wild Turkey running down your throat from early in the morning. And those vultures aren't "migrating," they're circling...


----------



## koshergrl

I think I missed something...how does being anti-declawing result in cats dying in shelters????

Again for the record, cats belong to the people who own them, and I really don't care particularly if an owner has justified nipping their toes for convenience sake. But let's be honest here...it's not for the health of the cat...there are no health benefits to doing it. It's for the convenience of the owner, and poses some inconvenience and potential (unnecessary) balance and medical issues for the cat, however brief. If you value your furniture THAT MUCH then at least be honest and say you're doing it for the sake of the furntiure, and you're willing to put the animal's welff being and comfort second to that.


----------



## Flopper

Synthaholic said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disclaimer one more time:
> 
> I've never declawed. But I detest those that bitch and moan and who think they are higher and more mightier than others who are owned by cats.
> 
> Snots you are. Bitches you are. And you are horrid.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what she is talking about?  I don't know anyone who is owned by a cat.
Click to expand...

The term is more figurative than literal.  Unlike dogs, cats are independent.  A dog is subservient to the master, the leader of the pack.  A cat has no master.  Unlike a dog it does not recognize ownership.  You can feed a cat and provide it a home, but if doesn't like you or your home it will leave at first opportunity.  I think some cats go through a number of owners before they find the right one.  Some never do.


----------



## tinydancer

Unkotare said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will tell you what I am.
> 
> I am a real person who lives in the middle of nowhere by choice. And I love it. I have wild turkeys who run down my front yard. I have these awesome vultures who migrate over me year on year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you have Wild Turkey running down your throat from early in the morning. And those vultures aren't "migrating," they're circling...
Click to expand...


Shows what you don't know kid.

Wild turkeys not only exist they are so beautiful you can't describe them. Wing pattern feathers to die for.

If someone else is out there that has a brain  I would  say herringsbone. Layered in black and white with grey in between.


----------

