# Scientific Dissent From Darwinism



## Viktor (Apr 22, 2021)

https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/04/Scientific-Dissent-from-Darwinism-List-04072020.pdf

Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature


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## Votto (Apr 23, 2021)

I'm sure they will all be cancelled in due time.


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## TNHarley (Apr 23, 2021)

Cool. 1k scientists worldwide. Quite an impressive movement.


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## BlindBoo (Apr 23, 2021)

Because being skeptical and encouraging examination of the evidence is so radical for science and scientist............


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## alang1216 (Apr 23, 2021)

Viktor said:


> https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/04/Scientific-Dissent-from-Darwinism-List-04072020.pdf
> 
> Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature


Except the vast majority do accept evolution as the key to Nature.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 23, 2021)

science does not work on consensus


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## Viktor (Apr 23, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> science does not work on consensus



No, but the people who signed the petition are scientists and you are not.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 24, 2021)

Viktor said:


> Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature


Same lie as the last 10 times you started this exact same thread. Evolution is a fact accepted by the global scientific community, on the evidence.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 24, 2021)

There is little evidence it is all guess work outside internal to species.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 27, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> There is little evidence it is all guess work outside internal to species.


Stupid lie. For one, you don't understand enough about evolution to pass a 7th grade science quiz. So you aren't in a position to have such an opinion anyway. 

Second, i will just ask you what the evidence of evolution would look like, and you will run and hide and not return to the thread.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 27, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > There is little evidence it is all guess work outside internal to species.
> ...


wrong as usual be specific now and cite for us a complete list of species with out any breaks no missing connections  of any kind for say mankind.... starting at around the supposed beginning of mankind.


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## Quasar44 (Apr 28, 2021)

Viktor said:


> https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/04/Scientific-Dissent-from-Darwinism-List-04072020.pdf
> 
> Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature


Any scientist of any reputation knows evolution is 200000 percent true


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## Quasar44 (Apr 28, 2021)

The science is 100 percent and proven by many things ..such as DNA and genetics , fossil record , body remnants , body errors , old things being used in a different way among newer species 

A human ear bones was the exact same bones used for small reptiles that had a different function.


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## Quasar44 (Apr 28, 2021)

The lung fish have a great mix of fish and amphibian characteristics


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 28, 2021)

I see you can not meet my request thanks for admitting it is guess work.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 28, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




So you are saying that what would convince you of evolution is for someone to produce every single  individual animal between a species and another species that descended from it. Do i have that right?

And why would this convince you? Remember, the goal here is for you to be clear and not to waste peoples time. If i am going to convince you of evolution, when the mountains of evidence readily available to any toddler with google have not, i need to know what your specific standards are.

So, two questions. Looking for two, direct, specific answers.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 28, 2021)

there is no suck link for man you have linked to the links they have now and there are numerous breaks and none linked species that supposedly prove that man descended from an ape like creature. go ahead prove me wrong. why would such a link convince me? are you serious? If you can show such a list for mankind of course it would be compelling proof of the claim.


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## Hollie (Apr 29, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> there is no suck link for man you have linked to the links they have now and there are numerous breaks and none linked species that supposedly prove that man descended from an ape like creature. go ahead prove me wrong. why would such a link convince me? are you serious? If you can show such a list for mankind of course it would be compelling proof of the claim.


As is usual with responses to science matters by religious extremists / YEC’ers, this thread devolves to the YEC’ers frantically attempting to find any inconsistency in the naturally occurring / scientific explanation of things so they spackle their various gods into their imagined gaps. The fact of biological evolution is not in question among the relevant science community. Religious extremists demanding a perfectly preserved fossil record of every species that has ever existed is simply a means to shield their ignorance of biology, earth history,  paleontology and the physical sciences. 

On the other hand, show us some proof of your supernatural gods. Show us the magic. That would be compelling proof of your Allah God.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 29, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > there is no suck link for man you have linked to the links they have now and there are numerous breaks and none linked species that supposedly prove that man descended from an ape like creature. go ahead prove me wrong. why would such a link convince me? are you serious? If you can show such a list for mankind of course it would be compelling proof of the claim.
> ...


I have no problem with evolution. God created everything if he chose to do it by evolution no problem. My problem is your unwavering religious devotion to science when science even admits it is mostly guess work in most cases. Again there is no link to the supposed ape like creature to current man. For the slow and stupid YOU not I claim to have proof, provide it.


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## Hollie (Apr 29, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


I am not aware that "science even admits it is mostly guess work". I have never seen this admission by science. There is no guesswork regarding a planet that is billions of years old or that biological organisms evolve and change over time. As to your gods or the gods of others creating anything, that is completely unsupported.

You can deny the fossil record that shows a clear lineage to man evolving from a more primitive form but you're then left to question why the gods would have left such a record. If evolution is false and the planet is 6,000 years old, there shouldn't be any fossil record. 

The hyper-religious do tend to be offended at the notion of evolution as opposed to supernatural creation of two humans 6,000 years ago. However, that fable suffers from any number of irreconcilable contradictions to a reality based worldview.

One of the profound difficulties religious people have with reality in general and science in particular is that they are more complex than “the gods did it.” The universe does not consist of ideals and opposites, but instead of continua along dimensions with multiple (often infinite) possible options. Yes… it is one of the rude awakenings to the religious that we live in a Darwinian world, not a Platonic one


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 29, 2021)

Again there is no clear record, there are numerous holes and several points where the supposed evolution is not tied to the previous species or the next species. if you disagree post the record and show me where I am wrong.


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## Hollie (Apr 29, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again there is no clear record, there are numerous holes and several points where the supposed evolution is not tied to the previous species or the next species. if you disagree post the record and show me where I am wrong.


You don't support your "numerous holes" comment so I have to assume you are retreating to the creationist safe house that will require a fossil record that you will always define as inadequate.

Like all of evolution, and human evolution in particular, we don't see a straight line from species to sub-species to another but a diverse "splitting tree" with many different branches. What we see in nature is not supermagical design as claimed by creationers but numerous starts and stops, and sometimes. complete dead ends. God's "talents" as a designer are in fact inept and incompetent in that biological systems collapse easily, they can face extinction if basic elements relied on by a species is destroyed, they are susceptible to diseases (which were also "designed" apparently-- (a round of thanks for the gods' blueprints for any number of diseases) and the general amount of waste is phenomenal in scope.

The point is, inefficiency, waste, ineptitude and incompetence are not hallmarks of the gods. Inefficiency in nature is the result of nature not being intellectually directed by your gods or anyone else's gods. That is why we see evolution sometimes retaining things (body parts, appendages in animals), it no longer needs, like vestigial bones (whales and snakes have useless leg bones) which are direct clues as to the start-and stop nature of evolution.

This is entirely consistent with the way our understanding of both human, animal and plant evolution has grown and improved using the process and the discipline of science. BTW, It is interesting to notice that creationists make such noise and fuss regarding our understanding of human ancestry which has been adjusted over time to accommodate new fossil evidence. And yet they never seem to notice that if creationism were true, there shouldn't be any of that fossil evidence to require accommodation.


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## Stryder50 (Apr 29, 2021)

Viktor said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > science does not work on consensus
> ...


HOWEVER - as citizens/voters/taxpayers we vote for the representation that assigns funding for science and endorses~or not, the finding of scientists, so we have a vested interest. 
ALSO - most education systems require some instruction in the basics of science since we live in an industrialized culture built upon/by science.

SO - even if many of us don't have a degree/sheepskin saying we are "scientists" we still have concerns about and live by science.

If you doubt this, I invite you to mix a home cleaning solution blending bleach and ammonia.


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## Stryder50 (Apr 29, 2021)

FWIW & FYI ...

*Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body*
*From our knees to our eyeballs, our bodies are full of hack solutions.*
...
The Greeks were obsessed with the mathematically perfect body. But unfortunately for anyone chasing that ideal, we were designed not by Pygmalion, the mythical sculptor who carved a flawless woman, but by MacGyver. Evolution constructed our bodies with the biological equivalent of duct tape and lumber scraps. And the only way to refine the form (short of an asteroid strike or nuclear detonation to wipe clean the slate) is to jerry-rig the current model. “Evolution doesn’t produce perfection,” explains Alan Mann, a physical anthropologist at Princeton University. “It produces function.”

With that in mind, I surveyed anatomists and biologists to compile a punch list for the human body, just as you’d do before buying a house. Get out your checkbook. This one’s a fixer-upper.
...








						Top 10 Design Flaws in the Human Body
					

From our knees to our eyeballs, our bodies are full of hack solutions.




					getpocket.com
				



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Admittedly, a bit subjective, but interesting still. One factor not properly explained by Religions (note the plural, not just the Judeo~Christian~Islamic) nor Science is how if humans evolved out of simians, we wound up with DNA structured in 23 chromosomes versus the ape/simian of 24.  Among a few other things BTW.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 29, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> go ahead prove me wrong.


Sure thing! What would the evidence man descended from apes look like? Be very specific.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 29, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> My problem is your unwavering religious devotion to science when science even admits it is mostly guess work in most cases.


It doesn't do that. If you are going to make up silly nonsense, head over to the religion section.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 29, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > go ahead prove me wrong.
> ...


I already told you I see you avoiding the fact you can not prove anything.


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## zaangalewa (Apr 30, 2021)

Viktor said:


> https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/04/Scientific-Dissent-from-Darwinism-List-04072020.pdf
> 
> Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature



Many scientistst have in general problems with darwinism - on political reasons (lots of misunderstandings of the scientific theory) but also more and more because of science itselve, if I understood the inherent critics from real scientistst well - what's not so easy, because specially the English speaking world produces an astonishing amount of nonsense about everything what has to do with biology and evolution.

I'm on my own always astonished about the fanatisms in context of this theme, specially astonished about the use of pseudo-religious arguments in this context. Creation and evolution for example are totally different things. Evolution is part of the creation but it makes not any sense to say creation evolved.

Indeed is the theory of evolution from Darwin not a big thing. The people saw this "biological evolution" since thousands of years and used this natural methods for mixed farming 'since ever' (about 10,000 years). Mendel for example was in this context more important than Darwin. I think to say something like "the nature is doing on its own the same what human beings are doing - it evolves characteristics of the living matter" was not really a new idea.

The real interesting idea was the so called "theory of games" in the background of the theory of evolution. I don't know how many people correct always the sentence "life is a game" with "life is not a game". But life is a game - although it is also a serios thing.

The religious problem in this context is not the theory of evolution - it's the concept of "happenstance". Sometimes "shit happens" for example on no deeper reason.  Not on reason of a cause, or on reason of fate, karma, predestination and so on and so on. Also not on reason of good or bad will. Sometimes things go well or go wrong just simple on no deeper reason. This allows us for example not always to have to look for faults. Sometimes happens something without faults or merits and we have to take it as it is. What had happened means sometimes nothing for the next round of the game, which is called "life". Perhaps not the results are sometimes predestined - perhaps sometimes is only predestined a chance. Howelse could the world be a free world, in the will of god?


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## zaangalewa (Apr 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> ... Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature



For a scientist it is unimportant whether an elephant or bumble bees with the same mass will fall into a black hole. But if the scientist is an Andromedian, who saw the first time in his life an elephant and bumble bees, then he will risk his life to save the elephant and the bumble bees. Why will this Andromedian scientist do so? Because living structures are the most valueable matter in this universe. Extremely seldom. I would wish all people on Earth had the same respect on life and the will to save life as owns this hypothetical Andromedian scientist in my fantasy.


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## Crick (Apr 30, 2021)

*"A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism"* (or *"Dissent from Darwinism"*) was a statement issued in 2001 by the Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank based in Seattle, Washington, U.S., best known for its promotion of the pseudoscientific principle of intelligent design. As part of the Discovery Institute's Teach the Controversy campaign, the statement expresses skepticism about the ability of random mutations and natural selection to account for the complexity of life, and encourages careful examination of the evidence for "Darwinism", a term intelligent design proponents use to refer to evolution.[1]

The statement was published in advertisements under an introduction which stated that its signatories dispute the assertion that Darwin's theory of evolution fully explains the complexity of living things, and dispute that "all known scientific evidence supports [Darwinian] evolution".[2][3] The Discovery Institute states that the list was first started to refute claims made by promoters of the PBS television series "Evolution" that "virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true".[4] Further names of signatories have been added at intervals.[5][6] The list continues to be used in Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns in an attempt to discredit evolution and bolster claims that intelligent design is scientifically valid by claiming that evolution lacks broad scientific support.[_citation needed_]

The statement is misleading and ambiguous, using terms with multiple meanings such as "Darwinism", which can refer specifically to natural selection or informally to evolution in general,[7] and presenting a straw man fallacy with its claim that random mutations and natural selection are insufficient to account for the complexity of life, when standard evolution theory involves other factors such as gene flow, genetic recombination, genetic drift and endosymbiosis.[8][9] Scientists and educators have noted that its signatories, who include historians and philosophers of science as well as scientists, were a minuscule fraction of the numbers of scientists and engineers qualified to sign it.[8] Intelligent design has failed to produce scientific research, and been rejected by the scientific community,[8] including many leading scientific organizations.[10][11] The statement in the document has also been criticized as being phrased to represent a diverse range of opinions, set in a context which gives it a misleading spin to confuse the public.[7] The listed affiliations and areas of expertise of the signatories have also been criticized.[1][12]









						A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




REFERENCES


Forrest, Barbara (2007). "Understanding the Intelligent Design Creationist Movement: Its True Nature and Goals"(PDF). Center for Inquiry, Inc. p. 5. Archived from the original(PDF) on 19 May 2011. Retrieved 25 April 2011. As I stated earlier, Johnson, Dembski, and their associates have assumed the task of destroying 'Darwinism,' 'evolutionary naturalism,' 'scientific materialism,' 'methodological naturalism,' 'philosophical naturalism,' and other 'isms' they use as synonyms for evolution.
"A Scientific Dissent from Darwinism" (PDF). September 2001. Archived from the original (PDF) on 30 September 2007. Retrieved 30 October 2007.; original "100 Scientists" advertisement.
Gross PF, Forrest BC (2004). _Creationism's Trojan horse: the wedge of intelligent design_. Oxford [Oxfordshire]: Oxford University Press. pp. 172. ISBN 0-19-515742-7.
"Skepticism About Darwinian Evolution Grows as 1,000+ Scientists Share Their Doubts". _Evolution News_. 4 February 2019.
Crowther, Robert (21 June 2006). "Dissent From Darwinism "Goes Global" as Over 600 Scientists Around the World Express Their Doubts About Darwinian Evolution". Archived from the original on 17 November 2007. Retrieved 30 October 2007.
Staff, Discovery Institute (8 March 2007). "Ranks of Scientists Doubting Darwin's Theory on the Rise". Discovery Institute. Archived from the original on 23 October 2007. Retrieved 30 October 2007.
Evans, Skip (29 November 2001). "Doubting Darwinism Through Creative License". NCSE. Retrieved 25 April 2011.
Petto, Andrew J. (24 July 2015). "Chapter 2: Evolution, Creationism, and Intelligent Design". In Muehlenbein, Michael P. (ed.). _Basics in Human Evolution_. Elsevier Science. pp. 23–25. ISBN 978-0-12-802693-9.
"Evolutionary mechanisms". _NCSE_. 24 September 2008. Retrieved 1 June 2019.
Statements from Scientific Organizations National Center for Science Education.
NCSE Voices for Evolution project, Sager C (2008). _Voices for Evolution_. National Center for Science Education, Inc. ISBN 978-0-615-20461-1.
Chang, Kenneth (21 February 2006). "Few Biologists But Many Evangelicals Sign Anti-Evolution Petition". _The New York Times_. Archived from the original on 9 May 2015. Retrieved 4 January 2008.; available without login
Viktor, what is your opinion on Intelligent Design?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I already told you I see you avoiding the fact you can not prove anything.


Which is a lie by you to avoid my question, as i am clearly trying to provide proof. Clearly the mountains of evidence thar have convinced virtually every educated person and scientist on the planet have not convinced you. So, in the interest of you acting like a reasonable, courteous adult, you need to tell me what convincing evidence would look like to you.

Or admit that no evidence could ever possibly convince you, and that your constant prattling about the evidence is a dog and pony show. 

Surely you aren't going to dodge me, after accusing me of dodging. That would make you look pretty bad.


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## james bond (Apr 30, 2021)

Perhaps it is isn't even a majority of scientists.  It's really a minority who are atheists.

What's troublesome is lack of transitional fossils when it's main evidence is supposed to be fossils.


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## james bond (Apr 30, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Evolution is a fact accepted by the global scientific community, on the evidence.


 
I've been telling you for years there is no evidence, evolution isn't a fact (hypothesis), and that it lacks hard evidence.  If it was a fact, then we could all use it.  Of course, you're an atheist and it's based on your religion.


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## Stryder50 (Apr 30, 2021)

Silly Humans ...

*Intervention Theory  * 

*What Is Intervention Theory? *

It is the theory that aliens deliberately placed and manipulated life on Earth, or to put it another way, aliens “intervened” in the development of life on Earth. There are many different versions of Intervention Theory, ranging from those who believe aliens merely seeded life here and then left it to naturally evolve (sometimes called “directed panspermia” or “terraforming”), to those who think aliens were actively involved in genetic manipulation to create domesticated species and humans. Lloyd Pye’s specific version of Intervention Theory proposes that there was at least one deliberate seeding event (the Cambrian Explosion), and that a human-like race of aliens called the Annunaki created humans by combining their own DNA with that of Earth’s native bipedal primates. As incredible as this sounds, there is evidence of DNA tampering in the human genome, and there are ancient written records detailing this incredible intervention.
...




__





						Intervention Theory – Lloyd Pye
					






					www.lloydpye.com


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## Hollie (Apr 30, 2021)

james bond said:


> Perhaps it is isn't even a majority of scientists.  It's really a minority who are atheists.
> 
> What's troublesome is lack of transitional fossils when it's main evidence is supposed to be fossils.


Perhaps you’re not understanding. The validity of science is not dependent on belief or non belief of the scientist. The data is supportable or it is not.

Fossil evidence is only troublesome for the hyper-religious because that evidence clashes with biblical tales and fables.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

james bond said:


> I've been telling you for years there is no evidence, evolution isn't a fact (hypothesis)


Which is false




james bond said:


> and that it lacks hard evidence.


Which means you would fail a 6th grade science quiz. You're a moron.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 30, 2021)

Again for the slow and stupid provide a chart that lists ALL the connections to the supposed beginning of  man that shows no breaks no missing connections and all connections are clearly connected one after the other.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again for the slow and stupid provide a chart that lists ALL the connections to the supposed beginning of  man that shows no breaks no missing connections and all connections are clearly connected one after the other.


Why would you need that? This would convince you? Why is a smooth line of nearly 100 such examples, with a smooth transition in physiology that aligns perfectly with mDNA studies not just as convincing? Be specific.


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## Turtlesoup (Apr 30, 2021)

Viktor said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > science does not work on consensus
> ...


Sounds more like they are frauds--either lacking brains or a moral compass or both.  Their consensus is shit.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> Sounds more like they are frauds--either lacking brains or a moral compass or both. Their consensus is shit.


Yep! The dummies who signed a petition rejecting evolution are definitely frauds.


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## Turtlesoup (Apr 30, 2021)

james bond said:


> Perhaps it is isn't even a majority of scientists.  It's really a minority who are atheists.
> 
> What's troublesome is lack of transitional fossils when it's main evidence is supposed to be fossils.


I guess you havent heard of DNA before nor do you care that fossils have been discovered showing evolutionary changes.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> guess you havent heard of DNA before nor do you care that fossils have been discovered showing evolutionary changes.


Of course he has. That dude has been spoonfed so much info and evidence that i am embarrassed for him as a fellow adult. He is a magical thinker. He thinks that, if he says there is no evidence, it becomes true.


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## james bond (Apr 30, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps it is isn't even a majority of scientists.  It's really a minority who are atheists.
> ...



Everyone has heard of DNA, but it's lacking when it comes to evolution.  The critics, which I am one, do not accept the _punctuated equilibrium_ and _gradualism_.  What I was pointing out was that gradualism is not shown in transitional fossils.  We can't get past the basic claims of Darwinism, so no need to go further.  You don't seem like the type who can explain (similar to Fort Fun Indiana), so I can just lol.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

james bond said:


> Everyone has heard of DNA, but it's lacking when it comes to evolution.


Embarrassing lie.


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## james bond (Apr 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> science does not work on consensus



It doesn't, but the evolutionists can't get past 35% believers in evolution by natural causes so they made it up as by consensus.


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## james bond (Apr 30, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone has heard of DNA, but it's lacking when it comes to evolution.
> ...



All from you.  It's no wonder posters do not reply with genuine intent to you any more.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

james bond said:


> All from you.


Yet virtually every educated person and scientist on the planet agrees with me. While you are a laughingstock who would fail a 6th grade science quiz.

And surely you understand if i am not concerned with the opinions of the population of one of the nastiest white supremist shitstain websites on the internet.


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## james bond (Apr 30, 2021)

We know that Hitler was the ultimate evolutionist.

“Thus there results the subjection of a number of people under the will, often of only a few persons, a subjection based simply upon the right of the stronger, a right which, as we see in Nature, can be regarded as the sole conceivable right, because it is founded on reason.”
—Adolf Hitler​
I've said it many times.  Darwinism (Evolution) and eugenics led to the Holocaust.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

james bond said:


> We know that Hitler was the ultimate evolutionist.
> 
> “Thus there results the subjection of a number of people under the will, often of only a few persons, a subjection based simply upon the right of the stronger, a right which, as we see in Nature, can be regarded as the sole conceivable right, because it is founded on reason.”
> —Adolf Hitler​
> I've said it many times.  Darwinism (Evolution) and eugenics led to the Holocaust.


Sad old man trolling nobody.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 30, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Again for the slow and stupid provide a chart that lists ALL the connections to the supposed beginning of  man that shows no breaks no missing connections and all connections are clearly connected one after the other.
> ...


you can not provide the evidence so deflect.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> you can not provide the evidence so deflect.


What evidence, specifically? You are dodging all my questions.

Are you saying the only evidence you would consider is for someone to place in front of you  100s of 1000s of individual animals, all deceased long ago, with one from each generation of the ancestral line connecting humans to the last common ancestor of humans and chimps?

That's a yes or no question. If you would like to stop dodging and deflecting, yes or no will do.

If yes: Why would this be evidence to you? All you would have in front of you are 100s of 1000s of similar-looking individuals. We already have something like that, in the form of fossils. So why would this collection of individuals convince you? Appearance? Because the person who shows them to you says so? Be specific.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 30, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > you can not provide the evidence so deflect.
> ...


yes and you cant do it cause there is no clear line you once listed what they do have on a chart it had HUGE holes and several points it had unrelated species to those before it and after it.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Apr 30, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> yes and you cant do it cause there is no clear line


Okay. You can stop right there.

If there WAS a clear line, you think we could do it?  You know that's nuts, right?


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 30, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > yes and you cant do it cause there is no clear line
> ...


told ya so, you got no proof it is guess work.


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## zaangalewa (Apr 30, 2021)

james bond said:


> We know that Hitler was the ultimate evolutionist. ...



Hitler was what? He was no evolutionist at all. He made a "conservative", a "nazional", an "authoritarian" revolution. He was a Darwinist - a racist. He and his gang liked to be the new "elites"- and the old elites (also often called "intelligentia") had to die. He made a revolution with stupid assholes, while his leading gang members were often educated in humanistic schools - no joke. Somehow - what's still today not easily understandable - Hitler was able to conquer the middle of the society. An reaction to the mad winners of world war 1, I guess. The greedy and criminal allies of world war 1 made Germany to a mad country - and not only Germany - and so a mad man overtook the country and more madness followed.


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## james bond (May 2, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > We know that Hitler was the ultimate evolutionist.
> ...



The rise of Nazism is part of world history that shocked the world due to its great evil and deliberate subjection of the Jews to the Holocaust and attempted genocide.  It's evidence for the "god of the world and prince of the power of the air" or the evil of Satan who will one day become your master and subject all atheists to the same.  Even the word holocaust itself is defined as "sacrifice by fire."  This isn't a coincidence.


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## Hollie (May 2, 2021)

james bond said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > science does not work on consensus
> ...


Nonsense and typically incoherent.


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## Turtlesoup (May 2, 2021)

james bond said:


> We know that Hitler was the ultimate evolutionist.
> 
> “Thus there results the subjection of a number of people under the will, often of only a few persons, a subjection based simply upon the right of the stronger, a right which, as we see in Nature, can be regarded as the sole conceivable right, because it is founded on reason.”
> —Adolf Hitler​
> I've said it many times.  Darwinism (Evolution) and eugenics led to the Holocaust.


Hitler was a catholic------he believed in eugenics not evolution as did most white people of his time both in europe and america.   Evolution and eugenics are not the same thing..........although I believe in both and support both.


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## james bond (May 2, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> Hitler was what? He was no evolutionist at all. He made a "conservative", a "nazional", an "authoritarian" revolution. He was a Darwinist - a racist.



His big belief was that the Aryan race was superior to other races based on ToE.  Your sad lacking of history and Hitler with his beliefs that he and his race were superior and had the _right_ to "exterminate" the inferior races.  This is based on his twisted and wrong notion that evolution is for the strong to survive.  He wrote of evolution as such in his infamous Mein Kampf autobiography.

'Interestingly, I discovered that all these translators rendered “Entwicklung” as “evolution” in certain contexts, especially in the chapter on “Nation and Race.” The reason for this is rather obvious: In that chapter Hitler describes the struggle for existence among organisms as a natural process that improves the species. Sure sounds like evolution to me — and all these translators agree.
In any case, here are three brief passages from the Mussey translation (from the chapter “Nation and Race”), where Mussey translates “Entwicklung” as “evolution”:'

Evolutionists should own up to their evil past of their Aryanism.  Perhaps Mein Kampf was supposed to be the twisted and evil equivalent of the Bible.









						Did Hitler Use the Term “Evolution” in Mein Kampf? | Evolution News
					

Some critics of my scholarship have tried to argue that Hitler did not believe in human evolution at all.




					evolutionnews.org


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## Hollie (May 2, 2021)

james bond said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was what? He was no evolutionist at all. He made a "conservative", a "nazional", an "authoritarian" revolution. He was a Darwinist - a racist.
> ...


None of that is true. Really shameful that you post such falsehoods.


----------



## Turtlesoup (May 2, 2021)

james bond said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was what? He was no evolutionist at all. He made a "conservative", a "nazional", an "authoritarian" revolution. He was a Darwinist - a racist.
> ...


You do not understand what Eugenics is obviously.  You wrongly think that it is based on race when it is not...and you wrongly think that it is evolution.  It has nothing to do with evolution.

Evolution is survival of the fittest.  Its not race based.  Whites evolved for cooler harder to live in climates that required tool building and more planning ahead while blacks evolved for warmer higher sun climates that had other issues requiring evolution of everything from skin tone to dick size.   
Eugenics is sterilization breeding to get rid of GENETIC problems like birth defects such as mental retardation or genetic blindness/deafness from the gene pool.  You don't allow "problem" members to breed "problem" offspring passing on "problem" genes from generation to generation.
Neither evolution or eugenics is based on race.


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## zaangalewa (May 2, 2021)

james bond said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was what? He was no evolutionist at all. He made a "conservative", a "nazional", an "authoritarian" revolution. He was a Darwinist - a racist.
> ...



What's by the way very interesting, because this idea has to come from the English speaking world. Aryans were mystical people. If they had really existed then they were ancestors of the Iranians and not of the Germanics. So it looks like someone made a mistake and thought about Arians, because Germaninc indeed had been Arians before they became Catholics. But this mistake is not possible in the German language. Aryans = Arier. Arians = Arianer. Both words sound in German totally different. This mistake is only possible in the English language.



> Your sad lacking of history



I will never understand why nearly all US-Americans always argue so damned stupid.



> and Hitler with his beliefs



No one knows hat Hitler believed in



> that he and his race were superior and had the _right_ to "exterminate" the inferior races.



The idea of Heinrich Himmler - the boss of all policemn and all SS-soldiers  in Germany - had been that only two superior races exist which are able to rule the world: The Germanics and the Jews. So he tried to murder all Jews without any exception: Men, women, children, babies.

But the concepts of biological evolution know not really a concept of "inferior" and "superior". They know only the concept "to fit".



> This is based on his twisted and wrong notion that evolution is for the strong to survive.



As far as I know was the wrong expression "survival of the strong" replaced from Charles Darwin after 1864 with the expression "survival of the fittest" from Herbert Spencer. "Das Überleben des Stärkeren" was indeed a propaganda strategy of the Nazis. The psychology behind this expression is just simple "Only if we will be strong, we will survive"



> He wrote of evolution as such in his infamous Mein Kampf autobiography.



What Hitler said or not said is for me personally nearly alwas only totally unintersting. The father of Joachim Fest had said about his contemporary Adolf Hitler: _"Hitler is such a damned good liar so even the opposite of his lies are lies again"_



> 'Interestingly, I discovered that all these translators rendered “Entwicklung” as “evolution” in certain contexts, especially in the chapter on “Nation and Race.”



The word "Entwicklung" says only that something becomes slowly more clear during time. Step by step.



> The reason for this is rather obvious: In that chapter Hitler describes the struggle for existence among organisms as a natural process that improves the species. Sure sounds like evolution to me — and all these translators agree.
> In any case, here are three brief passages from the Mussey translation (from the chapter “Nation and Race”), where Mussey translates “Entwicklung” as “evolution”:'
> 
> Evolutionists should own up to their evil past of their Aryanism.  Perhaps Mein Kampf was supposed to be the twisted and evil equivalent of the Bible.
> ...



The Nazis had for example the theory the sun is an iceberg. No joke. Even the most Nazis on their own were not so stupid to think this. But do you think anyone had said this is not true? Not a good reason to go in jail, isn't it?

But I have to agree with you in one point: It's a thousand times more better not to believe in evolution at all than to believe the nonsense, which the Nazis had said about biology and evolution. Nevertheless in the German language "evolution" means normally a developement step by step - slowly - without violence - while a revolution is a big violent thing, which changes everything with violence immediatelly. The Nazsi were a so called "right wing" revolution - with an own form of anti-Christian mystics, which combined a lot of things. Himmler saw for example in his SS leaders knights of the round table of King Arthur - what's totally absurde. Perhaps we can say the so called "third empire" in Germany was a deadly revolution of absurdities. The Nazis made out of everything an absurdity.


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## james bond (May 2, 2021)

Hollie said:


> None of that is true. Really shameful that you post such falsehoods.



It appears that the creationists and their scientists have all the scientific evidence backing them while the atheists and their scientists believe in lies.  Not one shred of evidence   It is incredulous that grown educated adults can be fooled by the lies of the atheist religion and atheist science.


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## Hollie (May 2, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > None of that is true. Really shameful that you post such falsehoods.
> ...


Actually, it’s quite obvious that the creationers have none of the scientific evidence backing them. That’s because creationers do no research and publish in no peer reviewed journals. Creationer charlatans are limited to quack fundie ministries for a reason: they’re not taken seriously.


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## xband (May 2, 2021)

Viktor said:


> https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/04/Scientific-Dissent-from-Darwinism-List-04072020.pdf
> 
> Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature


Lambda


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## james bond (May 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Practically, every time you post here you are wrong.  Science backs up the good book even though it's not a science book.  Just today, I learned how Sperry Top Siders shoes for sailors and its soles came to be to prevent slipping when the boat decks are wet.

All the atheists have here are complaints.  The Earth isn't special to them.


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Practically every time you post, you make the same false statements. Science doesn’t “back up” a 6,000 year old planet, talking snakes, men living to be 900 years old, etc. 

Are you suggesting Sperry Top Siders shoes were worn by the deck hands on Noah’s Ark? Or, perhaps, the gods made Sperry Top Siders shoes in various sizes and configurations for all the animals who war on Noah’s pleasure cruise?


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Once again you LYING TOAD almost NO ONE believe the earth is only 6000  years old.


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## surada (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > None of that is true. Really shameful that you post such falsehoods.
> ...



Do you believe the earth is 7,000 years old?


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


almost no one believe that. And the ones that do are fools.


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## surada (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



Do you believe in demons , Noah's flood and the Rapture?


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

Viktor said:


> https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/04/Scientific-Dissent-from-Darwinism-List-04072020.pdf
> 
> Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature


so if you don't believe in evolution, you must believe a fully formed human just ''appeared'' like a Star Trek Engergizer
..how did it happen then?


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...


I believe there was a flood and as for the end times yes I believe in that too. demons not so much but Satan rules the earth and there are a shit load of evil people doing his bidding.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

Viktor said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > science does not work on consensus
> ...


..we had this discussion in the climate thread--scientists can be and ARE idiots/WRONG also--they are not [ hahahahha ] gods


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> there is no suck link for man you have linked to the links they have now and there are numerous breaks and none linked species that supposedly prove that man descended from an ape like creature. go ahead prove me wrong. why would such a link convince me? are you serious? If you can show such a list for mankind of course it would be compelling proof of the claim.


so, in about 10 sentences, how did '''it''' happen?


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## surada (May 3, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > zaangalewa said:
> ...



Hitler was also poorly educated.

Aryan | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica









						Aryan | Definition, History, & Facts
					

Aryan,  name originally given to a people who were said to speak an archaic Indo-European language and who were thought to have settled in prehistoric times in ancient Iran and the northern Indian subcontinent. The theory of an “Aryan race” appeared in the mid-19th century and remained prevalent...



					www.britannica.com
				




Aryan, name originally given to a people who were said to speak an archaic Indo-European language and who were thought to have settled in prehistoric times in ancient Iran and the northern Indian subcontinent. The theory of an “Aryan race” appeared in the mid-19th century and remained prevalent until the mid-20th century.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > there is no suck link for man you have linked to the links they have now and there are numerous breaks and none linked species that supposedly prove that man descended from an ape like creature. go ahead prove me wrong. why would such a link convince me? are you serious? If you can show such a list for mankind of course it would be compelling proof of the claim.
> ...


the only conclusive link is to Neanderthal and around that time, there is no actual link to this mythical man ape from 7 million years ago and science ADMITS that openly only retards and stupid people keep claiming they have a fossil record to support it.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


....no, no--give us your ''creation'' of man theory in about 10 or 20 sentences


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


..why go to insults/etc unless YOU are a jackass???


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


I don't know when evolution created man that's the point. the only actual record is as I stated.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


I am FED UP with the lie that there is a fossil record.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


one more time, what is YOUR belief? if not evolution, then what is your belief?


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Once again, you’re angry and emotive. To dismiss the parts of biblical tales you don’t like while accepting others is classic cafeteria religionism.

It doesn't make sense to:

A. Use the bible as the source from where you heard about A&E and magical gardens in the first place

only to

B. Dismiss what the bible says about A&E and magical gardens and a 6,000 year old planet in the first place in favor of something you'd like it to be instead of what it actually lays out.

Whether “most people” believe as you do is irrelevant.


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Don’t believe there is a fossil record. Denial makes everything real.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

..the creationists have no theory


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


I believe in evolution and that god created Adam and Eve, Cain had to marry someone when cast out. and unless they were practicing incest so did all hi brothers and sisters. I just dont believe that science has a right to claim that with the almost non existent record they have that we can claim the man ape thing.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

T


Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


The BIBLE DOES NOT CLAIM EARTH is 6000 years old. that was done by idiots trying to use the ages listed for adam and eve and the line in genesis.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


....????
...evolution is man evolved from an ape LIKE ancestor ...you don't believe that but you also say you believe it..............?????


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


evolution is man evolved from something no one says it has to be an ape. further there is no evidence a single mammal species ever evolved into 2 distinctly different species.


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## surada (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



So you are a Scofield futurist.

There is no world wide flood footprint.. Eretz means land as in there was famine in the land NOT that there was famine worldwide.


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Speaking of incest, have you ever read the Noah fable? Following his pleasure cruise to nowhere, it was Noah and his immediate family left to repopulate the planet. That suggests both incestuous and familial relations.


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> T
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> ...


The writers of the bibles made many mistakes about descriptions of nature. The claimed flood of Noah tool place around 4,000 years ago. The various begat'ens identify a planet magically created 6,000 years ago.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > T
> ...


the BIBLE makes no such claim or perhaps you can cite for me book and verse that proclaims this?


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


...so, you won't tell me your theory --you don't have one


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


already told you that you are to stupid to understand is not my problem


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


hahahhahahhahahahahahh
you said you believe in evolution and you don't believe it- THAT'S stupid
hahahahhahahahahaha
you fkd up because you don't have a theory --you babble crap


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


so the only thing evolution of man can be is from an ape? Talk about moronic short sided and unscientific.


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


The Bible makes no claim about the earth rotating around the sun. I guess it doesn't. I have every right to pick and choose my Bible'ology just as believers do.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Just admit you got taken to the cleaners and let it go.


----------



## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


I believe that but I don't believe it 
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


you can funny it all you want but science does not support your myopic belief


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


hahahhahahaha
you are funny


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


at least I am neither stupid nor so enamored with science that a theory can not be challenged.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Energize!!!!


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## surada (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



The Noah story is borrowed from Sumer about a flood of the Euphrates River Basin in 2900 BC. It lasted four days.. The Ark was a  series of barges that hauled grain, livestock and beer down river.


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## surada (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



So what is YOUR theory?


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## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


already answered that the only clear connection to modern man is Neandertal and what came after.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


no you didn't --you babbled because you have no theory ...


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



130,000 years ago people from East Africa crossed the Red Sea into Arabia.. They found tools that are alike on both coasts.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...


god ''beamed''  those tools into existence , according to creationists


----------



## cnm (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> science does not work on consensus


Yes. It does. However, the consensus is subject to change.


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## cnm (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I believe in evolution and that god created Adam and Eve, Cain had to marry someone when cast out. and unless they were practicing incest so did all hi brothers and sisters.


The glory that is compartmentalised thinking.

Hallelujah!


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## surada (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Every culture has a creation myth and they are all very different.


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


How is that? I'm acknowledging the fossil record (not perfectly preserved), that shows a clear progression of change in population over time. That is the definition of biological evolution. 

On the other hand, you have provided not a single bit of evidence for A&E (not the cable network)  being supernaturally created 6,000 years ago.


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## zaangalewa (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...


What's by the way a problem, if I see it the right way. You are only able to beam a soul (information) - not a body (matter). So they had to eliminate the body and to send a kind of quantum plan of the body and to rebuild the body in the new place. If they would forget to destroy the original body then the beamed person would exist two times. Indirectly is the idea to beam human beings a kind of spiritual idea. They die and will be recreated in a new position in the spacetime. Not a very atheistic idea, isn't it? And specially first to die before to travel is not this what the most people prefer to do - although one day everyone will have to die in hope to be able to do so (Christians and other spiritual people) or without this hope (Atheists).


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## james bond (May 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> Practically every time you post, you make the same false statements. Science doesn’t “back up” a 6,000 year old planet, talking snakes, men living to be 900 years old, etc.



Haha.  Evolution is a lie and so has to disagree with the truth.  Truth doesn't change, but already the atheists have changed from infinite universe to 13.7 billion years old universe and 4.54 billion years old Earth.  I know you are lying because you can't explain the lack of layers of the Earth for a planet that old.

One evidence for a young Earth is the decay of Earth's magnetic field.  It is decaying way too fast for a planet that old.

That's 3 for me.  0 for your atheists beliefs.


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## james bond (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



I know.  OTOH, what do you think?


----------



## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Practically every time you post, you make the same false statements. Science doesn’t “back up” a 6,000 year old planet, talking snakes, men living to be 900 years old, etc.
> ...


hahahhahah--more babble crap from you 
evolution can't be a lie--it's a theory 
AHAHHAAHAH--you fked up


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## james bond (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> ....no, no--give us your ''creation'' of man theory in about 10 or 20 sentences



No need.  You can't read that far.  You've never posted anything worthwhile reading either.  It's always the same lol and you need to provide the evidence.

The evidence has been provided hundreds of times, but you just can't accept it because of your atheism.



harmonica said:


> evolution can't be a lie--it's a theory



Some think it's a fact.  Evolution is a lying theory made up by lying atheists and their scientists.  That's a theory, too.


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## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> No need. You can't read that far. You've never posted anything worthwhile reading either. It's always the same lol and you need to provide the evidence.
> 
> The evidence has been provided hundreds of times, but you just can't accept it because of your atheism.


No need. You can't read that far. You've never posted anything worthwhile reading either. It's always the same lol and you need to provide the evidence.

The evidence has been provided hundreds of times, but you just can't accept it because of your theism.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> ... almost NO ONE believe the earth is only 6000  years old.



Exactly. And never believed normally anyone the Earth is flat. Today some people believe so, because it's modern to do so. (By the way: The Earth is not flat - but the universe is flat. Even in biggest distances a triangle in the universe has exactly 180°.)

And here an information without any context: Today I heard the philosopher Vittorio Hösle  (University Notre Dame in Indiana) wrote a book with the German title "Kritik der verstehenden Vernunft". I don't know whether he wrote it in English first - but as far as I can see in the moment this what he wrote about - and how he wrote about it - we all could miss since a longer time now, without to know what we miss. I'm very interested in reading this book. I "ordered" it today as a Christmas present for me. Hopefully Miss Santa is reliable.


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## Hollie (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Practically every time you post, you make the same false statements. Science doesn’t “back up” a 6,000 year old planet, talking snakes, men living to be 900 years old, etc.
> ...


Your conspiracy theories are your own to revel in. The Flat Earthers / Bible literalists are something of a unique Cult that fortunately has no influence or credibility outside of your Jimmy Swaggert style ministries.


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## zaangalewa (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> ... Some think it's a fact.  Evolution is a lying theory made up by lying atheists and their scientists.  That's a theory, too.



Whatever to say about what kind of theory of whoever person of any politcial or not political group of people:

Why do you have the hand of an ape and not the paw of a dog? What thought the angel who made you when he did do so?


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## zaangalewa (May 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



never existed



> Bible literalists



Who?



> are something of a unique Cult that fortunately has no influence or credibility outside of your Jimmy Swaggert style ministries.


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## james bond (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> There is no world wide flood footprint.. Eretz means land as in there was famine in the land NOT that there was famine worldwide.



Here are two.


Wrong.  The Mid-Atlantic Ridge circles the world.


Then there are the fountains of the deep around the world.  Atheists and their scientists can't explain it.


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## james bond (May 3, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > ... Some think it's a fact.  Evolution is a lying theory made up by lying atheists and their scientists.  That's a theory, too.
> ...



Apes are apes and humans are humans.  Human hands are different from ape hands, e.g. chimp fingers are longer and thumb is shorter.


----------



## james bond (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> The Noah story is borrowed from Sumer about a flood of the Euphrates River Basin in 2900 BC. It lasted four days.. The Ark was a series of barges that hauled grain, livestock and beer down river.



Mixed up history.  Noah is the true event and the rest of the stories were based on the true event.


----------



## james bond (May 3, 2021)

harmonica said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > No need. You can't read that far. You've never posted anything worthwhile reading either. It's always the same lol and you need to provide the evidence.
> ...


 
I laughed so loud and so hard until I puked on your avatar.  You look better now.

>>The evidence has been provided hundreds of times, but you just can't accept it because of your theism.<<

I said it first as you have no evidence.  You have nothing like what's in your head.

It is I who said it first -- I was the one who provided the evidence for God and creation science hundreds of times while you just have ad hominems and nothing.


----------



## james bond (May 3, 2021)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



You are wrong again and continue to have nothing.


----------



## harmonica (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


I don't need evidence ...YOU need evidence for your claim


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 3, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> is Told ya so, you got no proof it is guess work.


No, what you did is, being the fraud you are, you chose an impossible standard that is not a rational request. You basically admitted that there is no evidence that would ever convince you, and that this is all a dog and pony show by you to get attention. Which i already knew, but i wanted to demonstrate it. This is also why you dodged my last question.


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > The Noah story is borrowed from Sumer about a flood of the Euphrates River Basin in 2900 BC. It lasted four days.. The Ark was a series of barges that hauled grain, livestock and beer down river.
> ...



Nope. Noah's flood is a morality tale about redemption. Too many ancient civilizations were never flooded. Jericho has been occupied for 14,000 years and it is 846 feet below sea level.. but its never flooded.

Haven't you been there?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> Noah's flood is a morality tale about redemption.


Gross! That's even worse than it being a silly Iron Age myth invented by terrified, superstitious, ignorant peasants (which is, of course, what it actually is. It is a myth meant to inspire fear and obedience, not morality). What a disgusting bit of morality that story represents. Utter garbage. Toddlers have better morality..


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > There is no world wide flood footprint.. Eretz means land as in there was famine in the land NOT that there was famine worldwide.
> ...



Fountains of the deep is poetic language. The flood was caused by spring snowmelt from the Zagros mountains combined with spring rains in the Euphrates River Basin whch is quite flat... There is a flood sediment 150 miles wide and 350 miles to the south .. That's what formed the Delta south of Basra.


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > Noah's flood is a morality tale about redemption.
> ...



The point of the mythos is that God destroyed the bad guys and redeemed Noah's family.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> point of the mythos is that God destroyed the bad guys and redeemed Noah's family.


False. God destroyed newborn babies, because they were bad guys? Listen to yourself. The point was to inspire fear and obedience, using a disgusting, immoral myth.


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > There is no world wide flood footprint.. Eretz means land as in there was famine in the land NOT that there was famine worldwide.
> ...



Hahahaha,, ..My goodness. Wht the hell does the mid Atlantic ridge have to do with Mesopotamia?


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > point of the mythos is that God destroyed the bad guys and redeemed Noah's family.
> ...



Most of the epic Bible stories begin with slaughter of the innocents. Surely, you don't take the stories literally. That would be very foolish.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> Most of the epic Bible stories begin with slaughter of the innocents. Surely, you don't take the stories literally.


Of course I do, because the authors of them meant them to be literal. Of course I know they are false. Myths purport to be true, but they are false. So here you sit, with the benefit of scientific knowledge the ignorant, superstitious authors did not have, trying to put tuxedos on turds.

Yes, many innocents slaughtered by a vain, insecure, evil god character.


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the epic Bible stories begin with slaughter of the innocents. Surely, you don't take the stories literally.
> ...




They were never meant to be taken as history or science..


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> They were never meant to be taken as history or science..


False. They were meant to be taken as both, in what was one of our first and worst attempts at both history and science. 

Listen to yourself. You cannot seriously believe the things you are saying.


----------



## surada (May 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > They were never meant to be taken as history or science..
> ...



I certainly do believe what I'm saying. Do you take Aesop's Fables literally?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 3, 2021)

surada said:


> . Do you take Aesop's Fables literally?


Silly red herring. Those were not myths purporting to be true. Yes, the authors purported the noah myth to be true. And you would have believed it, if not for the fact that scientists have taught you better.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 3, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > is Told ya so, you got no proof it is guess work.
> ...


Liar I have been clear all I want is a clear identifiable trail that is not so fragmentary as to be useless.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 4, 2021)

james bond said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



A difference which is only 1.7% of the genetical information in case of our nearest neighborhood in the world of the apes.



james bond said:


> Human hands are different from ape hands, e.g. chimp fingers are longer and thumb is shorter.



A little different. But much more important in this context: Our extremely good understanding of 3-dimensional structures in space and time has a lot to do with apes, who fly with 30 miles per hour through the roof of a jungle. Imagine what a mistake in coordination means by flying per hands.

And why did you not try to answer my question?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...


One example please. But not this example where a prophet ends 8 chapters later with the words _"And this all will happen, if you do not listen to the will of god."_



surada said:


> Surely, you don't take the stories literally. That would be very foolish.



Oh by the way: Every child understands the story around Noah and his ark. Everyone was able to do what Noah did do. But the people who did not do it did not fit and so they died. Ask Darwin. ... Or better ask someone who understands Darwinism better than Darwin. The "story" ends by the way with a convenant with Noah (our spiritual ancestor) - a convenant with all human beings and all animals.

And believe it or not: Many, many, many idiots in this world here see many, many, many things in the story of Noahs ark - but many, many, many don't see any need to save gods creation. Perhaps they all should try to learn from a liitle child what's more important: A warm living and loving pet - or a cold silver piece of dead metal.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



Oh by the way - only to make it clear in this position here: The belief in natural science is not natural science. And personally I think you should try to learn to respect foreign religions, which you don't know. Aesop's fables are not written on reason to try to insult people who believe in god and to mock the trust in messages from their most holy book.


----------



## surada (May 4, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > point of the mythos is that God destroyed the bad guys and redeemed Noah's family.
> ...



It is disgusting but that doesn't change the fact that most of the Epic stories begin with the slaughter of children.


----------



## surada (May 4, 2021)

zaangalewa said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Aesop's Fables were written by a Greek Slave between 620 and 564 BCE.  Are they true or are they teaching narratives?


----------



## Hollie (May 4, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > There is no world wide flood footprint.. Eretz means land as in there was famine in the land NOT that there was famine worldwide.
> ...


Hydrothermal vents. Pretty simple. 

Do a search. 









						What is a hydrothermal vent?
					

Hydrothermal vents are the result of sea water percolating down through fissures in the ocean crust in the vicinity of spreading centers or subduction zones.




					oceanservice.noaa.gov
				




 Nothing godly about them.


----------



## Hollie (May 4, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


Another of your retreats.


----------



## surada (May 4, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > There is no world wide flood footprint.. Eretz means land as in there was famine in the land NOT that there was famine worldwide.
> ...



Looks like seizmic activity to me.. Thats what causes the widening of the Red Sea. The Red Sea is very deep and they have some earthquake activity on the seafloor. Just ten years ago it suddenly got 26 feet wider.. but that has nothing to do wiith fountains of the deep either.. Its poetic language.. the Arabs talk like that too.


----------



## zaangalewa (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



Which answer do you expect from a frog, scorpion?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



That's why Christian knights nights in the "dark" middle ages, who had attacked pagans, had the duty to adopt children from their dead enemies? What made they wrong by doing so? And why are you, your not existing wife and your not existing children - including your whole village - still alive, although you attack Christians, hero?


----------



## zaangalewa (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



What do you think about if this story had not happened but will happen? What will you say about Captain Noah, who will bring animals to starship Ark and will look for a new planet? Do you fly with him or do you like to stay in Sodom and Gomorrah? Lot of hard work for Noahs animals and for his ark - easy life to make a lot of money with drugs and prostitution in S&G.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 4, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Liar I have been clear all I want is a clear identifiable trail that is not so fragmentary as to be useless.


Liar. You would then just find gaps in that, as you already have with the excellent fossil record for human ancestry. It's fine, you can be a silly denier. I just hope you understand that your "dissent" is in no way scientific, or even rational.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> but that has nothing to do wiith fountains of the  deep either.. Its poetic language.. the Arabs talk  like that too.


Wrong. They all took it literally. Millions still do.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> It is disgusting but that doesn't change the fact that most of the Epic stories begin with the slaughter of children.


Nor the fact that it was purported to be and accepted as factual, despite your claims to the contrary.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 4, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Liar I have been clear all I want is a clear identifiable trail that is not so fragmentary as to be useless.
> ...


LOL you have no trail you moron it is so fragmentary as to be useless and science ADMITS it is fragmentary. only you morons pretend otherwise.


----------



## james bond (May 4, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > T
> ...



No, they didn't.  You and the atheists did and will pay for it with your souls and everything.  Like I said, life is _supernatural_.  You'll die in this world and wake up in the next.

All you have to do to disprove this is show how life just pops up from non-life and it hasn't happened yet.  It never will.


----------



## james bond (May 4, 2021)

harmonica said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > harmonica said:
> ...



You'll get it when you wake up screaming after your death.  I'd love to see that.


----------



## james bond (May 4, 2021)

surada said:


> Looks like seizmic activity to me.. Thats what causes the widening of the Red Sea. The Red Sea is very deep and they have some earthquake activity on the seafloor. Just ten years ago it suddenly got 26 feet wider.. but that has nothing to do wiith fountains of the deep either.. Its poetic language.. the Arabs talk like that too.



Tsk.  For a smart guy, it turns out that you're one who believe in lies.


----------



## surada (May 5, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like seizmic activity to me.. Thats what causes the widening of the Red Sea. The Red Sea is very deep and they have some earthquake activity on the seafloor. Just ten years ago it suddenly got 26 feet wider.. but that has nothing to do wiith fountains of the deep either.. Its poetic language.. the Arabs talk like that too.
> ...












						The Red Sea Parts Again
					

Chunks of Earth are drifting apart, slowly widening the sea with no help from Moses.




					www.livescience.com
				




I am a grandmother.

How wide is the Red Sea where the Israelites crossed?









						How wide is the Red Sea where the Israelites crossed?
					

The importance of the parting of the Red Sea is that this one event is the final act in God’s delivering His people from slavery in Egypt. The exodus from Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea is the single greatest act of salvation in the Old Testament, and it is continually recalled to...




					www.tonymaritis.com
				




Jan 31, 2021 · Its maximum width is 190 miles, its greatest depth 9,974 feet (3,040 metres), and its area approximately 174,000 square miles (450,000 square km). The Gulf of Suez, the northern end of the Red Sea is roughly where Moses and the Israelites are said to have crossed.


----------



## surada (May 5, 2021)

This is the first rifting episode to have occurred since 1970 and the largest single rip in the Earth's continental crust during the satellite-monitoring era.

"We knew about the steady rifting process in Afar, as Arabia moves away from Africa across the rift," Wright said. "And we knew that occasionally the strain that builds up slowly over centuries is released suddenly in rifting episodes. We did not know how big the deformation could be."

Slow drift

For the past 30 million years Africa and Arabia have been going through a rifting process, the same one that formed the Red Sea. In this amount of time, the 186-mile- wide Afar depression formed.

"The ground is continually moving—much more rapidly now than before the rifting episode," Wright told LiveScience. "On average, the two sides move apart at about 2 centimeters per year [0.8 inches per year]. But, as this event demonstrates, the motion is episodic and jerky. This poses considerable hazard to the local inhabitants, which is higher for the next few years."

This latest split, added to the long-term rifting process, which is tearing the northeast of Ethiopia and Eritrea from the rest of Africa, could eventually create a huge new sea. Although such processes could take millions of years to occur, this event has given scientists an unprecedented opportunity to monitor the rupture in real time.

The Red Sea Parts Again


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL you have no trail you moron


We have literally thousands of fossils of 10s of species, just for human ancestors. Maybe more, depending on our classifications. Anyone who knows anything about this topic (that would not be you) knows you are lying.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 5, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > LOL you have no trail you moron
> ...


wrong you have random un related species over millions of years.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Another silly lie. You know less than nothing about any of this, so i know for a fact you don't actually think you are making any valid arguments. You just like the attention. And, failing 6th grade science quizzes, apparently.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


But you did just expose yourself as a fraud again. I will demonstrate:

If i showed you what you ask for, how would you know i was showing you all the ancestors, with no breaks, and how would you know they were related?


----------



## james bond (May 5, 2021)

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



Yes, I think your link is correct and will take your word for the Red Sea's dimensions.  Why do you link it if you do not believe it?  For a smart grandmother, it turns out that you're one who believe in lies.



surada said:


> This is the first rifting episode to have occurred since 1970 and the largest single rip in the Earth's continental crust during the satellite-monitoring era.


What else happened as described in the Bible?  Does that happen with your _rifting_?


----------



## surada (May 5, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



Do you know anything at all about plate tectonics? That's what we are talking about.. The rift in the Red Sea runs all the way to the Dead Sea.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 5, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


LOL your own SOURCES admit the fossils are fragmentary and the evidence is lacking,


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 5, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


by the chart I want a chart that shows the life span of each species and a direct link from each species to the next.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL your own SOURCES admit the fossils are fragmentary and the evidence is lacking,


They do not admit the evidence is lacking. That's another embarrassing lie you just made up. The evidence comes in many forms, and it is overwhelming. That's why the global scientific community calls it a fact. But again , since you know less than nothing about any of this, you didnt know that.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> the chart I want a chart that shows the life span of each species and a direct link from each species to the next.


Haha, and there is the shallow fraud, setting an impossible bar that no rational person would require. All to get attention from strangers on the internet.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

james bond said:


> You'll get it when you wake up screaming after your death. I'd love to see that.


Of course, because you are a vile person. You think you can be, because you think Jesus took away your accountability. That's one of the most immoral propositions of your iron age myth.


----------



## Hollie (May 5, 2021)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


I'm certainly not wrong about the fundamentalist frauds that exploit the fears and ignorance of the hyper-religious.


----------



## Hollie (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


What you have been provided with is an identifiable trail that is useful to all but the hyper-religious.

You can refute it with an identifiable trail that supports a 6,000 year old planet. You have that, right?


----------



## Infallible Arbiter (May 5, 2021)

Viktor said:


> https://www.discovery.org/m/2020/04/Scientific-Dissent-from-Darwinism-List-04072020.pdf
> 
> Many scientists don't accept evolution as the key to Nature


You mean there are some scientist's that are not whores? 
Unlike those funded to create science for their funders?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 5, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Look you lying piece of shit I have NEVER claimed the earth is only 6000 years old and the fact is VERY few people do claim that, the Bible doesn't claim it and no main stream religion or sect does. Your own link belies your claim,


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 5, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > LOL your own SOURCES admit the fossils are fragmentary and the evidence is lacking,
> ...


the link provided by Holie clearly states it in the opening paragraph.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 5, 2021)

__





						Hominid Species
					





					www.talkorigins.org
				






> Although the hominid fossil record is far from complete, and the evidence is often fragmentary, there is enough to give a good outline of the evolutionary history of humans.


 first paragraph last sentence,


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> the link provided by Holie clearly states it in the opening paragraph.


That the evidence that humans evolved from an earlier species is lacking? No it doesn't. That's a lie you made up about your earlier lie. And even the part you quoted says the opposite.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (May 5, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Homo erectus: where did he come from, and where did he go?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 5, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > __
> ...


you keep ignoring and misquoting what science actually says I gave you the quote.


----------



## Hollie (May 6, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Odd, you don't understand that evidence is what separates a valid argument from fear and superstition. You reject the evidence because evidence directly challenges your fears and superstitions.

In order for the creationer to propose a valid argument refuting evolution, the creationer must first locate some evidence for their counter position that hasn't been thoroughly refuted by scientists. Creationism, as it is presented by Christian fundamentalists, is not a constructive position; rather, it is a religious attempt to poke holes in a solidly established scientific theory that happens to contradict a fundamentalist interpretation of ancient tales and fables.

If the hyper-religious are hoping to refute evolution with the Bible, I would expect them to present their evidence for A&E, magical gardens, a 6,000 year old planet, a global flood 4,000 years ago, etc.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 6, 2021)

Again for the slow and stupid Neanderthal and later are what we come from. That and Adam and Eve.


----------



## Hollie (May 6, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again for the slow and stupid Neanderthal and later are what we come from. That and Adam and Eve.


Your ".... _because I say so_" comments are not convincing.  

It's certainly reasonable to hold the creationers to the same standard of proof that they demand for science. Let's see the "beliebers" show cause and an unbroken chain of evidence for supernatural creation 6,000 years ago. Where is the fossil evidence for A&E? Can you produce a petrified, half eaten apple?


----------



## james bond (May 6, 2021)

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



My point is rifting, plate tectonics, or whatever you want to call it was that it is natural.  Also, it doesn't explain what happened with Moses and his people vs the Egyptians.  What happened to Moses and his people and the Egyptians was supernatural.

More evidence for God.  However, the atheists won't believe it.  Instead, they'll just go to the other place.


----------



## surada (May 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...



Moses and the Exodus is myth. .. likely borrowed from the older, romantic story of Sinhue. The Hebrews emerged from the north coast Canaanites and moved inland to the hill country after the arrival of the sea people.


----------



## Hollie (May 6, 2021)

james bond said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


The fact that there’s no evidence to suggest any sea parting silliness actually happened means the “supernatural “ label is also silliness.

Ever wonder why the gods don’t do tricks amid modern, educated cultures?


----------



## surada (May 6, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again for the slow and stupid Neanderthal and later are what we come from. That and Adam and Eve.



By the time of Adam and Eve the Sumerians already had agriculture, a written language, irrigation and sail boats.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 6, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Again for the slow and stupid Neanderthal and later are what we come from. That and Adam and Eve.
> ...


again RETARD almost no one claims the earth is only 6000 years old so stop with the lie.


----------



## surada (May 7, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Creation science depicts man and the dinosaurs living at the same time.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

surada said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


No it does not. Very few misguided idiots believe that crap. the Bible does not say that and it does not say the earth is only 6000 years old. Perhaps if you weren't such a moron you would know that,


----------



## surada (May 7, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Hollie

It tells you that The Tower of Babel fell 100 years after Noah's flood.

How's that for hysterically funny?


----------



## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


How do men live to be 900 years old?


----------



## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


I’m not clear where your “… almost no one” claim comes from. There are religionists on this site who are Bible literalists and are convinced of a young earth.


----------



## surada (May 7, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



They didn't.. Their life expectancy was much like our own.. Maybe a bit less than ours.. So a man of 75 would have been considered very ancient.. There is speculation of a scribal error concenting the way they counted sheaves of grain.. but I have no idea.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Adam and Eve were perfect their offspring and for generations after still had that from inheriting it from Adam and Eve.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Name a single real main stream sect or religion that subscribes to the 6000 year old earth.


----------



## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


When were A&E poofed into existence?

Did the gods really punish all of humanity after A&E for mere fruit theft?


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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I think you’re aware that most of the prominent fundamentalist ministries are of the YEC’ist ilk.

AIG, Ken Ham, creation.com, a great many of the “power preachers”, etc. 

Have you visited the Ark Park?


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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No one knows exactly when Adam and Eve were created. And even if they knew they don't know God's time so could not guess what 7 days were to him. and yes we were all punished because of Adam and Eve.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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no main stream sect or religion believes the earth is 6000 years old and just because a couple preachers believe it or a cult does so does not equate to the VAST majority of Christians.


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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Where did all the other humans come from? Do you think that the earth was repopulated in the 100 years between Noah's flood and the fall of the Tower of Babel? Remember A & E is the Jewish history of their Adamic line.


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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It says the morning and the evening.. Do you think the earth changed the timing of its rotation around the sun?


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

surada said:


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already answered on where the humans came from in Adam and Eve's time, I suggest rather then assuming things you actually read my posts.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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the BIBLE states man can not know God's time. sorry to disappoint.


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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The ancients claim Adam and Eve were 90 feet tall. In the grandmother citie Eve's tomb is 100 feet long and very narrow. The story goes that after the Fall A&E were separated for 130 years  so Adam hooked up with Lilith and she gave birth to hundreds of demons before Adam was reunited with Eve, forgiven by God and built an alter to God to celebrate and worship..


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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We were talking about the length of a day, not God's name.


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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The vast majority of Christians suggests it's a majority rules kind of belief?


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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Just curious.  Similar to populating the planet after Noah’s flood, and the implications of familial and incestuous relations, what were the obvious implications for the offspring of A&E?


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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This is pretty much a US phenomena. The US Protestants embraced it in the early 1900s in reaction against science and modernity. I think it was in Philadelphia.. Scofield published his Bible, fundamentalism and futurism were on the rise.


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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That they gave birth to litters of human infants?

Jews and Muslims don't believe in Original Sin.. and Christians didn't buy into it until 300AD.


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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Agreed. I think the concept of original sin infiltrating Christianity caused great harm and tainted the faith.


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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The Bible has 5 direct contradictions as to whether or not the sins of the fathers are visited on their children.

Bible Contradiction #136. Are the sins of the parents ...









						#136. Are the sins of the parents reckoned on their children to the third and fourth generation OR are sins reckoned to each offender only? (Ex 20:5, 34:7; Deut 5:9 vs Deut 24:16; Jr 31:29-30; Ez 18:2-4)
					

The notion of hereditary guilt runs throughout the Bible and was a common characteristic of most ancient societies. Exodus 20:5, for example, claims from the mouth of Yahweh himself that he is a je…




					contradictionsinthebible.com
				




May 16, 2013 · Finally, this contradiction can be extended into the New Testament, where much of the literature also talks about an individual’s responsibility for his own sins. At core these differences are a reflection of the changing worldview and beliefs of the 70+ authors who wrote the texts of the Bible which span a 1,000 years.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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simply not nor supported by any book in the bible.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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God said man can not know God TIME retard.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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No it is not supported by the Bible thus no real Christian religion.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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Wrong the Bible does not say Adam and Eve" children married each other and Cain obviously did not.


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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Yet these myths and legends are older than the Bible.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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Simply not supported by the Bible so not worth discussing anymore then your atheist's claims about a 6000 year old earth or man living with dinosaurs


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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I'm definitely NOT an atheist.. I just know the difference between science, history and morality tales.. teaching narratives.


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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Unless you have a certificate that annnoints you as spokesman for a of Christianity, your "... because I say so" commandments tend to conflict with reality.


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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Did the gods magically poof additional people onto the planet?

If the children of A&E did not procreate with each other, then who lurking in the Magical Garden?

Noah and his immediate family were left after their pleasure cruise to re-populate the planet. Who were they "boinking"?


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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I suspect “Poetic license” answers the question about why there are so many contradictions in the Bible. Unknown writers used specific names / characters in the stories they wrote. Also, I think it's important to understand that the stories were written during a time when the ebb and flow of life was dictated by forces largely not understood by humanity.

However, you don’t quite get that same message from Homer's _Iliad_, do you? It's intended as a fictional retelling, and few people debate its relative accuracy. But plenty of people think Bibles and Mafioso Books of the Dead _do_ relate an accurate worldview, and that opinion crosses into social constructs, and those social constructs impact individuals’ freedoms. It leverages political decisions. It lends weight to laws that are developed and implemented.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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you morons have the same damn problem you don't read posts of those you disagree with.


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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That was quite a retreat. That's the problem faced by the hyper-religious, obvious contradictions are addressed by "... you morons".

Why would the gods choose incestuous and familial relations as the way to populate the planet?


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## RetiredGySgt (May 7, 2021)

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I already answered your questions it is not my fault you don't read my posts


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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Correct. I didn't read your response. Do the Christian thing and forgive me.... and link to your explanation for familial / incestuous relations arranged by the gods.


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## surada (May 7, 2021)

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The Bible stories were redacted and amended many times.. and they also combined the creations stories from Judah and Israel because they were different. To me the stories are important  to think about the message, but they are NOT science or history.


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## james bond (May 7, 2021)

surada said:


> Moses and the Exodus is myth. .. likely borrowed from the older, romantic story of Sinhue. The Hebrews emerged from the north coast Canaanites and moved inland to the hill country after the arrival of the sea people.



No faith for those who won't make the leap.

It's a fact that the Egyptians would've killed Moses and his people if they tried to flee Egypt from being slaves.  Furthermore, what do we know about the Jews and genocide?  They are one people marked for it since the beginning.

The ancient news of Moses people escaping isn't a myth like evolution.  The Egyptian story of Sinhue are based on this one true event of slaves escaping their fate.  You need more than the Red Sea rift to disprove it.


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## LittleNipper (May 7, 2021)

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There were 4 pairs of husbands and wives who would have had a far less corrupted DNA than we presently possess today. As a result, they could have easily intermarried with little to no issues, especially with GOD's permission to replenish the planet.


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## LittleNipper (May 7, 2021)

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The Bible was constructed by GOD using selected humans to whom GOD revealed the truth. Corrupted oral histories were righted and myth was separated from truth. Also GOD's prophetic message was proof that what was written was true...


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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Thats really creepy. You’re admitting that the gods condoned familial / incestuous relations.


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## LittleNipper (May 7, 2021)

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I'm not admitting that the "gods" did anything. There is but one GOD, and HE created man to have sex with one woman.  There is really no reason that a man couldn't have sex with his sister or cousin except that the LAW of Moses was established at a time when GOD deemed it important to do so. GOD knew that man's DNA was becoming dangerously corrupt. And was also setting HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE apart from the world. AND we still follow those guidelines set by the Levitical LAW to this very day... 
Leviticus 18:6–18​​6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.


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## Hollie (May 7, 2021)

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So, are familial / incestuous relations something you’re OK with?

Is it something you would engage in?


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## LittleNipper (May 7, 2021)

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Well, as the Bible reveals ---- things are different now. We are not living in either the pre-Flood era, nor the post-Flood Apocalypse. GOD gave Moses the LAW in order to demonstrate our inability to please GOD and to provide the blueprint for a most advantageous life ----- this side of eternity...  Fortunately, I alive now and not then.


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## james bond (May 10, 2021)

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Haha.  You are blind.  It's in the Bible and we find evidence of the Egyptians chasing the Jewish slaves across it -- Irrefutable Evidences That Prove Parting Of The Red Sea In Exodus.

Just this itself is more than what the evolutionists can provide about their atheism .


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## james bond (May 11, 2021)

surada said:


> Yet these myths and legends are older than the Bible.


No, they're not.  You and the atheists believe in lies.


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## surada (May 11, 2021)

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Straight down 900 feet.. too steep for people or livestock.. Look at the topography of the Red Sea.


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## surada (May 11, 2021)

james bond said:


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Yes, these myths were recorded on clay tablets in Sumer, Dilmun and Ugarit 1000 years before Abraham.


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## Hollie (May 11, 2021)

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You provided no “irrefutable evidences”.

lying makes the baby Jesus cry.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (May 11, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> you keep ignoring and misquoting what science actually says I gave you the quote.


Liar, that's what you did. The quote clearly says we have more than enough evidence to understand a general outline of human evolution. You misrepresented it to say the opposite. You lied in broad daylight, while giving everyone the material. to know you were lying. It's kind of fascinating to watch, really. Very strange.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 11, 2021)

lol admitting they don't have the evidence then claiming it shows a clear picture and you buy it.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (May 11, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> lol admitting they don't have the evidence


Lie. They explicitly said we have more than enough evidence to understand the general outline of human evolution. You are embarrassing yourself.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 11, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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 no they cited fragmentary and very sparse evidence then claimed it still proved something


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## Fort Fun Indiana (May 11, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> no they cited fragmentary and very sparse evidence then claimed it still proved something


Because it does. They explicitly said so. You tried to lie about their comments, and now you are running out of wiggle room and have to admit that the idea that the evidence we have does not give us a general idea of human evolution is YOUR ignorant claim, not theirs.

With people like you, it takes a while to eke any honesty out of you. The next step would be to get you to explicitly admit the standard of evidence you have contrived is an impossible one. You already admitted this without realizing it, but now we get you to say it. And then, we get you to admit the reason you have rigged the game this way: your faith based beliefs.

Once we have established the fact that your magical religious beliefs will keep you from ever believing the most well established scientific theory in history no matter the evidence, our work will be done. Nobody will have to waste any more time with you.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 11, 2021)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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I believe Neanderthal and after were our ancestors I do not believe that science connects Neanderthal to any species before it.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (May 11, 2021)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I believe Neanderthal and after were our ancestors I do not believe that science connects Neanderthal to any species before it.


Well, they do. Heidelbergensis.


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## james bond (May 12, 2021)

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No, it isn't.  You believe in lies.


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## james bond (May 12, 2021)

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What you believe is not how it happened.  The irrefutable evidence backs up the supernatural event that the Bible describes.  It is in the link I provided.


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## james bond (May 12, 2021)

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You have nothing to back up Surada's claims.  Her claims do not even refute what happened.


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