# My son may have ADHD



## Luissa

I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.  

II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.


----------



## eots

There is no such thing as ADHD


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrI5CBTLFvw]ADHD Fraud - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Michelle420

How old is your son now?  I had not heard of sensory perception disorder so I looked it up and came across this article. It mentions ADHD as commonly found in children with sensory perception disorder.

Mainly, I think a professional will give better advice but I would be sure to get a few professional opinions and then go with your gut on who is giving you the best solutions.



> Sensory issues are associated with autism because they are common in children and adults on the autism spectrum, though most children with SPD are not on the spectrum. They can also be found in those with ADHD, OCD and other developmental delays -- or with no other diagnosis at all



What Is Sensory Processing Disorder? How To Diagnose Children With Sensory Issues


----------



## Delia

I wouldn't be surprised to find there are people posting on this board who live with ADHD.


----------



## eots

I cured my children of ADHD..by extending my middle finger to psychiatrist and home schooling


----------



## Sarah G

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



Oh they must have some better solutions than harsh medications by now..

I agree, get a couple of opinions.  Research it.


----------



## Meathead

It's a new name for hyperactivity. It's one of those renamed things like senility and Alzheimer's. My nephew has it it, and I think he's taking Prozac.


----------



## Mad Scientist

The geniuses at the first DOD school my oldest son attended said the same thing and wanted to medicate him. I said no and put him in Montesori and then a Japanese School where he did just fine. If he really couldn't pay attention then how did he catch up to the other kids in a different school and a different language? Schools Adminstartors don't know what they're talking about, that's why.

Some Kids have what I call an "excess of personality". My son is now a well adjusted young man with a wife and a son, no medication was needed.

If he's a bit uncontrollable then maybe you should look into adjusting his diet and getting rid of sugar, artificial flavoring, no vaccines, and things like that.


----------



## Truthmatters

you are in control.

do what works and dont be affraid to listen to your heart.


Good luck and remember to do your homework.

He will be OK


----------



## eots

Sarah G said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh they must have some better solutions than harsh medications by now..
> 
> I agree, get a couple of opinions.  Research it.
Click to expand...


the so called treatment is meth.anphetimines


----------



## Mad Scientist

Meathead said:


> It's a new name for hyperactivity. It's one of those renamed things like senility and Alzheimer's. My nephew has it it, and I think he's taking Prozac.


The worst thing you can do to a kid is medcate him. My Sister did that to her oldest son and he ended up going to Prison.

Don't f*ckin' medicate your kids *no matter what*! You *know* it's not good for them!


----------



## Annie

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



I don't know where you're located, but if possible I'd go with a pediatric neurologist, rather than a pediatrician that 'specializes' in ADD or ADHD. Will be able to administer the cognitive tests, teacher/parent surveys, EEG, and prescribe if necessary any meds.


----------



## eots

these drugs kill thousands of healthy normal children


----------



## Amelia

ADHD drugs helped me a lot as an adult.

Might have been life changing as a child.

After some time with the drugs I began to have physical side effects -- like skin disintegration which I got a biopsy for -- but then one doctor made the connection and I started taking lots of Vitamin E and/or Fish Oil and that helped.

Whatever drugs he takes, behavioral counseling is still advisable.  Use the drugs to enable things like learning to maintain a healthy routine and not as a cure-all in themselves.


My $.02


----------



## Sarah G

Mad Scientist said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a new name for hyperactivity. It's one of those renamed things like senility and Alzheimer's. My nephew has it it, and I think he's taking Prozac.
> 
> 
> 
> The worst thing you can do to a kid is medcate him. My Sister did that to her oldest son and he ended up going to Prison.
> 
> Don't f*ckin' medicate your kids *no matter what*! You *know* it's not good for them!
Click to expand...


Your suggestion about getting him off of sugar, changing his diet is good.  Even too much sugar in fruits can make a kid hyper.


----------



## eots

annie said:


> luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> i had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended i take him to a pediatrician that specializes in adhd etc to be tested for adhd. Many of you have might already know i have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> Ii have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one i have no clue how i feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of adhd. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't know where you're located, but if possible i'd go with a pediatric neurologist, rather than a pediatrician that 'specializes' in add or adhd. Will be able to administer the cognitive tests, teacher/parent surveys, eeg, and prescribe if necessary any meds.
Click to expand...


EEG ??..there is no medical test of anykind for this made up disorder


----------



## PixieStix

I am not wanting to scare you Luissa.

Please do everything you can to not medicate.

My nephew was "diagnosed"  with ADHD, when he was about 9. Was on meds for the rest of his life..

He is no longer with us. Passed in November of 2012 

Before the meds, he was hyper and needed help to focus, but it was better than his ultimate alternative


----------



## Luissa

drifter said:


> How old is your son now?  I had not heard of sensory perception disorder so I looked it up and came across this article. It mentions ADHD as commonly found in children with sensory perception disorder.
> 
> Mainly, I think a professional will give better advice but I would be sure to get a few professional opinions and then go with your gut on who is giving you the best solutions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sensory issues are associated with autism because they are common in children and adults on the autism spectrum, though most children with SPD are not on the spectrum. They can also be found in those with ADHD, OCD and other developmental delays -- or with no other diagnosis at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Is Sensory Processing Disorder? How To Diagnose Children With Sensory Issues
Click to expand...


Yeah when he first was diagnosed they said he could have ADHD, but they don't diagnose that young. 
He is five now. 
He is hyperactive but he isn't like some of the kids I have seen. For one he can be well behaved. When we go out in public he can behave better than many kids his age. He also plays well with other children.


----------



## Annie

Sarah G said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a new name for hyperactivity. It's one of those renamed things like senility and Alzheimer's. My nephew has it it, and I think he's taking Prozac.
> 
> 
> 
> The worst thing you can do to a kid is medcate him. My Sister did that to her oldest son and he ended up going to Prison.
> 
> Don't f*ckin' medicate your kids *no matter what*! You *know* it's not good for them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your suggestion about getting him off of sugar, changing his diet is good.  Even too much sugar in fruits can make a kid hyper.
Click to expand...


I agree with that. Usually though after years of early intervention, now meetings with school staff, it's been tried, with little or no results. Of course if not, I wholeheartedly agree. 

What isn't fair is the piling on by others that claim to have 'cured' and threaten the child will end up in prison if meds are used. If anyone claimed the opposite regarding putting kid on meds, I'd be equally appalled. This is between mother and docs and all really taking into account what is happening with this one particular child.


----------



## eots




----------



## Luissa

PixieStix said:


> I am not wanting to scare you Luissa.
> 
> Please do everything you can to not medicate.
> 
> My nephew was "diagnosed"  with ADHD, when he was about 9. Was on meds for the rest of his life..
> 
> He is no longer with us. Passed in November of 2012
> 
> Before the meds, he was hyper and needed help to focus, but it was better than his ultimate alternative



Yeah I am scared to medicate. 
I just want him to have a good education. I have ADD, and it was ignored. The only reason why I graduated is because I test well.


----------



## Caroljo

My son has ADD (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with ADD, and put on Ritalin.  At the time it was like a God-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through Junior high when he got into wrestling.  I THOUGHT he was taking it through High School and found out when he decided to enlist in the National Guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the Army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his Psy Ops training.   

So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult ADD (I think he's hyper too!!!).  They say it is, or can be, hereditary.  I know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....


----------



## Zoom-boing

L, I'd do a lot of research and would try dietary changes (limiting/eliminating crap, try gluten free,etc.), get him involved in activities to burn off the energy before turning to meds.  

Here's a good place to start:  Overview of the Feingold Diet Program for ADHD


----------



## Luissa

Sarah G said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a new name for hyperactivity. It's one of those renamed things like senility and Alzheimer's. My nephew has it it, and I think he's taking Prozac.
> 
> 
> 
> The worst thing you can do to a kid is medcate him. My Sister did that to her oldest son and he ended up going to Prison.
> 
> Don't f*ckin' medicate your kids *no matter what*! You *know* it's not good for them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your suggestion about getting him off of sugar, changing his diet is good.  Even too much sugar in fruits can make a kid hyper.
Click to expand...


Funny thing is I don't allow him to eat like crap too much, plus the kid loves vegetables. I actually give him my peas. Lol
With my work schedule he is with my parents at night, who are pretty old school. They have a normal home made dinner most nights and they eat at the dinner table. 
Of course they also spoil him with cookies. 


I will never put him on Prozac. I think that is a horrible drug.


----------



## eots

caroljo said:


> my son has add (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with add, and put on ritalin.  At the time it was like a god-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through junior high when he got into wrestling.  I thought he was taking it through high school and found out when he decided to enlist in the national guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his psy ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult add (i think he's hyper too!!!).*  they say it is, or can be, hereditary. * i know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....



how can they say its hereditary when there is not a single diagnostic test ?


----------



## Sarah G

Annie said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> The worst thing you can do to a kid is medcate him. My Sister did that to her oldest son and he ended up going to Prison.
> 
> Don't f*ckin' medicate your kids *no matter what*! You *know* it's not good for them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your suggestion about getting him off of sugar, changing his diet is good.  Even too much sugar in fruits can make a kid hyper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with that. Usually though after years of early intervention, now meetings with school staff, it's been tried, with little or no results. Of course if not, I wholeheartedly agree.
> 
> What isn't fair is the piling on by others that claim to have 'cured' and threaten the child will end up in prison if meds are used. If anyone claimed the opposite regarding putting kid on meds, I'd be equally appalled. This is between mother and docs and all really taking into account what is happening with this one particular child.
Click to expand...


I've seen some kids on meds before and it is pretty scarey.  I wonder if their attention span is changed at all like are they focused at all or just sedate.


----------



## Luissa

Annie said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you're located, but if possible I'd go with a pediatric neurologist, rather than a pediatrician that 'specializes' in ADD or ADHD. Will be able to administer the cognitive tests, teacher/parent surveys, EEG, and prescribe if necessary any meds.
Click to expand...


My father's friend who worked for CPS and other children's services recommended the same doctor. I believe he said they usually send them to a neurologist due to the many forms of ADHD to see which part of the brain etc it effects.


----------



## Sarah G

Zoom-boing said:


> L, I'd do a lot of research and would try dietary changes (limiting/eliminating crap, try gluten free,etc.), get him involved in activities to burn off the energy before turning to meds.
> 
> Here's a good place to start:  Overview of the Feingold Diet Program for ADHD



Good suggestions.


----------



## Againsheila

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



First worry about the tests, when you get the diagnoses, then worry about the rest.  Oh, and since the school recommended it, if your insurance won't cover it, tell the school you need a voucher to take him for the tests.  They recommended it, they are legally obligated to pay for it.   At least that's how it used to be.

My first son was diagnosed with ADHD originally, later it was changed to Asperger's Syndrome.  I did a lot of research although it's been some years I may be able to answer some of your questions.  First of all, the medication may help, it may not.  If it is ADHD, it will, but there will be side effects.  My recommendation is if you go with the medication, watch him carefully and don't give it to him when he's not in school. Coffee, believe it or not, may be better for him than the medication.  The caffeine will help him calm down.  I know that sounds weird but stimulants actually do the opposite for kids with hyperactivity.  Do not do something just because the school recommends it or pushes for it.  You have rights.  Make sure you child is on an IEP.  Independent Education Plan.  Find out what organization in your state helps parents of special needs kids.  In Washington State it's PAVE (Parents are Vital in Education).  They will help you to understand the IEPs and how to get your son on one.  If he doesn't qualify for an IEP, he will qualify for a 504 I think that's what it's called in this state.  Basically it says the schools have to provide "accommodations" for him so that he can learn.  This could mean something as simple as someone reading the questions to him on a test and taking down his verbal answers if he can't focus enough to write his answers down himself.  It could require them to provide him with notes from classes that someone else takes for him.  IMO you should get your kid active.  DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT let them punish him by making him stay in at recess.  That just makes the hyperactivity worse.  He'll do better if he can get out and run for a few minutes before having to sit in a class again.  

If your child is on an IEP, remember the school district gets EXTRA money for your child so don't let them complain about having to provide "speech therapy" "physical therapy" etc.  They get money to pay for that.  Unfortunately the district gets that money, not the school, not the classroom and not the student, so they are very very stingy as they don't want to spend it on your son even though that's why they get it.  I would call the state Department of Education as ask them how much the district gets for a child with a health impairment which is what ADHD is considered.  Then you will be armed when you go in for your IEP meeting.  It would also help if you can get a liason from your parents organization to come with you.

Obviously there is lots more, feel free to message me and I'll answer all questions I can.  My kids are 25 and 28 now so it's been awhile but I remember the fight very well.  Thankfully it's easier now, just remember that you are the best advocate your child has, you know your child better than anyone, even the doctors.


----------



## PixieStix

Luissa said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not wanting to scare you Luissa.
> 
> Please do everything you can to not medicate.
> 
> My nephew was "diagnosed"  with ADHD, when he was about 9. Was on meds for the rest of his life..
> 
> He is no longer with us. Passed in November of 2012
> 
> Before the meds, he was hyper and needed help to focus, but it was better than his ultimate alternative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I am scared to medicate.
> I just want him to have a good education. I have ADD, and it was ignored. The only reason why I graduated is because I test well.
Click to expand...


Ask your Dr. about vitamin D 

ADHD treatments: ADHD and Vitamin D Deficiency: Any Evidence?


----------



## Luissa

Caroljo said:


> My son has ADD (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with ADD, and put on Ritalin.  At the time it was like a God-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through Junior high when he got into wrestling.  I THOUGHT he was taking it through High School and found out when he decided to enlist in the National Guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the Army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his Psy Ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult ADD (I think he's hyper too!!!).  They say it is, or can be, hereditary.  I know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....



Yeah, I believe it can be heredity too. I for one have ADD, I know my mom has either or. 
The reason I do what I do is because I don't get bored. Getting bored is my down fall, I usually just move on and don't finish a task. I have thought about getting medicated myself, don't know if I am ready to put my son on medication though.


----------



## Annie

Caroljo said:


> My son has ADD (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with ADD, and put on Ritalin.  At the time it was like a God-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through Junior high when he got into wrestling.  I THOUGHT he was taking it through High School and found out when he decided to enlist in the National Guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the Army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his Psy Ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult ADD (I think he's hyper too!!!).  They say it is, or can be, hereditary.  I know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....



I've seen kids on Ritalin or others from the early years, that by middle or high school give up the meds and it seems for most of them, they'd learned coping strategies. Perhaps those early years on meds gave them the focus to listen to learning strategies and behavior cues they may have missed without? I don't really know. 

What I've also seen is homeschooling can be an alternative, if the parents have the resources and inclination. 

What is the saddest of all is a small child being diagnosed or failing to be diagnosed because the parent doesn't want to cope or admit. School is hell for the child and that child disrupts the classroom, creating personality conflicts and often social issues too. Many parent meetings, most ending in tears or threats. By middle school the child is usually academically behind and very angry, for good reasons. Starting meds at this age is usually a horror for both child and parent. The hormones play havoc and most 12-15 year olds do not like the 'strangeness' they feel.


----------



## Sarah G

Zoom-boing said:


> L, I'd do a lot of research and would try dietary changes (limiting/eliminating crap, try gluten free,etc.), get him involved in activities to burn off the energy before turning to meds.
> 
> Here's a good place to start:  Overview of the Feingold Diet Program for ADHD



Yes, gluten too.  It could be any kind of food allergy.


----------



## MDiver

My significant other was diagnosed as having ADHD, however, she had lots of good professionals guiding and teaching her.
She went on to become a Psychologist who travels and lectures physicians, nurses and other health care professionals.
Your child will be fine.  Get professional guidance and no medication should be necessary.


----------



## Sherry

I had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, Mondays were very difficult for him, and I don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.


----------



## eots

luissa said:


> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> my son has add (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with add, and put on ritalin.  At the time it was like a god-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through junior high when he got into wrestling.  I thought he was taking it through high school and found out when he decided to enlist in the national guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his psy ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult add (i think he's hyper too!!!).  They say it is, or can be, hereditary.  I know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i believe it can be heredity too. I for one have add, i know my mom has either or.
> The reason i do what i do is because i don't get bored. Getting bored is my down fall, i usually just move on and don't finish a task. I have thought about getting medicated myself, don't know if i am ready to put my son on medication though.
Click to expand...


you are taking personality traits and calling them medical disorders with zero medical evidence.. Its maddnesss


----------



## eots

sherry said:


> i had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, mondays were very difficult for him, and i don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.



maybe he just didn't like mondays


----------



## Michelle420

Luissa said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> How old is your son now?  I had not heard of sensory perception disorder so I looked it up and came across this article. It mentions ADHD as commonly found in children with sensory perception disorder.
> 
> Mainly, I think a professional will give better advice but I would be sure to get a few professional opinions and then go with your gut on who is giving you the best solutions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sensory issues are associated with autism because they are common in children and adults on the autism spectrum, though most children with SPD are not on the spectrum. They can also be found in those with ADHD, OCD and other developmental delays -- or with no other diagnosis at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Is Sensory Processing Disorder? How To Diagnose Children With Sensory Issues
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah when he first was diagnosed they said he could have ADHD, but they don't diagnose that young.
> He is five now.
> He is hyperactive but he isn't like some of the kids I have seen. For one he can be well behaved. When we go out in public he can behave better than many kids his age. He also plays well with other children.
Click to expand...


You sound like a very caring involved mother. 

At the end of the day it is  a private decision and should be done after careful evaluation of your son's needs, professional opinions and the mother gut instinct. 

I am sure you will do your best whatever decision you make and your son sounds to be doing very well in spite of the diagnosis he already was given with the sensory perception disorder. 

Nothing to worry about because he has you on top of things.


----------



## Annie

Sarah G said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your suggestion about getting him off of sugar, changing his diet is good.  Even too much sugar in fruits can make a kid hyper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with that. Usually though after years of early intervention, now meetings with school staff, it's been tried, with little or no results. Of course if not, I wholeheartedly agree.
> 
> What isn't fair is the piling on by others that claim to have 'cured' and threaten the child will end up in prison if meds are used. If anyone claimed the opposite regarding putting kid on meds, I'd be equally appalled. This is between mother and docs and all really taking into account what is happening with this one particular child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've seen some kids on meds before and it is pretty scarey.  I wonder if their attention span is changed at all like are they focused at all or just sedate.
Click to expand...


Those kids then were over medicated. From my knowledge, the kids on Ritalin or Wellbutrin, one can't tell. They take the dose M-F in morning, off on weekends and vacations. Not a huge difference that an observer could tell, 'hyper kids' are still very active. The big difference though is when the teacher says, "Susan, make sure to write this down," or "You need to look at me for a few minutes and listen." Often there will be some physical cue too, like  'red, yellow, green' circles or something. The teacher can walk around class and 'warn' or 'praise' for paying attention or staying on task. 

Meds don't and shouldn't take away personality, just give the kid a chance to be able to focus. 

The one 'big' signpost to look for, these drugs are actually pretty quick acting. If within 48 hours the parent doesn't see a difference in the response of the child, the drug isn't working.


----------



## Luissa

Zoom-boing said:


> L, I'd do a lot of research and would try dietary changes (limiting/eliminating crap, try gluten free,etc.), get him involved in activities to burn off the energy before turning to meds.
> 
> Here's a good place to start:  Overview of the Feingold Diet Program for ADHD



We did soccer this year, that helped.

Lucky for me, even though I am a single mom my father is very involved with my son. While I work my parents take care of him and he does quite a bit with my dad. In the summer it is swimming etc, right now it is sledding or my dad takes him to run man errands. 
The kid is smart, he has delays when testing but he can do what they are testing him for it is just getting him to pay attention when they test him. For instance, two weeks ago they said he wouldnt say his ABCs, but at home he says them just fine. He has pretty much taught himself how to read, but getting him to do it on demand is impossible. He likes to do when we are driving down the road looking at reader boards.


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> i had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, mondays were very difficult for him, and i don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe he just didn't like mondays
Click to expand...


No, the mother explained to me that she wanted her son to be "fully with her" when they spent quality time together on the weekends, and she didn't mind dealing with his behavior, yet felt they were necessary for him to focus during class. The meds wouldn't be in full effect on a Monday like they would the other school days, so it was more challenging. But I understood her position, and I loved my student, so we worked closely together on handling any situations.


----------



## Luissa

drifter said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> How old is your son now?  I had not heard of sensory perception disorder so I looked it up and came across this article. It mentions ADHD as commonly found in children with sensory perception disorder.
> 
> Mainly, I think a professional will give better advice but I would be sure to get a few professional opinions and then go with your gut on who is giving you the best solutions.
> 
> 
> 
> What Is Sensory Processing Disorder? How To Diagnose Children With Sensory Issues
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah when he first was diagnosed they said he could have ADHD, but they don't diagnose that young.
> He is five now.
> He is hyperactive but he isn't like some of the kids I have seen. For one he can be well behaved. When we go out in public he can behave better than many kids his age. He also plays well with other children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sound like a very caring involved mother.
> 
> At the end of the day it is  a private decision and should be done after careful evaluation of your son's needs, professional opinions and the mother gut instinct.
> 
> I am sure you will do your best whatever decision you make and your son sounds to be doing very well in spite of the diagnosis he already was given with the sensory perception disorder.
> 
> Nothing to worry about because he has you on top of things.
Click to expand...


I have a good support system. 
Yeah I am single mom, but my son lives a pretty good life due to my support system. He probably has more than kids with two parents. I am very lucky.


----------



## eots

A PROFESSIONAL PSYCHIATRIST ARE PRACTICING A PSEUDO SCIENCE..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISFPJL66p4c]Drugging Children - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Annie

Sherry said:


> I had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, Mondays were very difficult for him, and I don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.



The teacher should be willing to 'suffer' through difficult Mondays. Mondays may be that child's day to be the the messenger around the school and the one who passes out papers. 

The kid's system does need the breaks from the meds, same with vacations. Too many teachers fail to find out the less than optimal side effects, for them, 'It's all about school.' These meds in younger children tend to make it very difficult for them to sleep. They also tend to suppress appetite, leading to either weight loss or less than normal growth. While parents worry about school, their child's overall health is the prime motivator.


----------



## eots

Sherry said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> i had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, mondays were very difficult for him, and i don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe he just didn't like mondays
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the mother explained to me that she wanted her son to be "fully with her" when they spent quality time together on the weekends, and she didn't mind dealing with his behavior, yet felt they were necessary for him to focus during class. The meds wouldn't be in full effect on a Monday like they would the other school days, so it was more challenging. But I understood her position, and I loved my student, so we worked closely together on handling any situations.
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISFPJL66p4c]Drugging Children - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sherry

Annie said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, Mondays were very difficult for him, and I don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teacher should be willing to 'suffer' through difficult Mondays. Mondays may be that child's day to be the the messenger around the school and the one who passes out papers.
> 
> The kid's system does need the breaks from the meds, same with vacations. Too many teachers fail to find out the less than optimal side effects, for them, 'It's all about school.' These meds in younger children tend to make it very difficult for them to sleep. They also tend to suppress appetite, leading to either weight loss or normal growth. While parents worry about school, their child's overall health is the prime motivator.
Click to expand...


I never even hinted that I had to suffer through anything. It was challenging for the student. The mother was concerned and involved enough to explain everything to me so that we could work as a team. Luissa asked for any experiences we may have had with the situation, and I gave mine to further inform her. So if you were attempting to lecture me, save it for someone who needs it.


----------



## Mr. H.

My youngest boy was quite hyperactive. He was 6 when we divorced and the ex promptly had him taking Ritalin. I withheld them on my weekend visits. I'd rather have had him bouncing around than staring like a zombie.

Anhow- I'd grind up his Rit and snort it.  
Pretty damn good speed.


----------



## Annie

Sherry said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, Mondays were very difficult for him, and I don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teacher should be willing to 'suffer' through difficult Mondays. Mondays may be that child's day to be the the messenger around the school and the one who passes out papers.
> 
> The kid's system does need the breaks from the meds, same with vacations. Too many teachers fail to find out the less than optimal side effects, for them, 'It's all about school.' These meds in younger children tend to make it very difficult for them to sleep. They also tend to suppress appetite, leading to either weight loss or normal growth. While parents worry about school, their child's overall health is the prime motivator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never even hinted that I had to suffer through anything. It was challenging for the student. The mother was concerned and involved enough to explain everything to me so that we could work as a team. Luissa asked for any experiences we may have had with the situation, and I gave mine to further inform her. So if you were attempting to lecture me, save it for someone who needs it.
Click to expand...


I put that badly, I meant 'teachers in general,' I apologize for it sounding personal.


----------



## Sherry

Annie said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The teacher should be willing to 'suffer' through difficult Mondays. Mondays may be that child's day to be the the messenger around the school and the one who passes out papers.
> 
> The kid's system does need the breaks from the meds, same with vacations. Too many teachers fail to find out the less than optimal side effects, for them, 'It's all about school.' These meds in younger children tend to make it very difficult for them to sleep. They also tend to suppress appetite, leading to either weight loss or normal growth. While parents worry about school, their child's overall health is the prime motivator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never even hinted that I had to suffer through anything. It was challenging for the student. The mother was concerned and involved enough to explain everything to me so that we could work as a team. Luissa asked for any experiences we may have had with the situation, and I gave mine to further inform her. So if you were attempting to lecture me, save it for someone who needs it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I put that badly, I meant 'teachers in general,' I apologize for it sounding personal.
Click to expand...


Thanks


----------



## eots

Sherry said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, Mondays were very difficult for him, and I don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teacher should be willing to 'suffer' through difficult Mondays. Mondays may be that child's day to be the the messenger around the school and the one who passes out papers.
> 
> The kid's system does need the breaks from the meds, same with vacations. Too many teachers fail to find out the less than optimal side effects, for them, 'It's all about school.' These meds in younger children tend to make it very difficult for them to sleep. They also tend to suppress appetite, leading to either weight loss or normal growth. While parents worry about school, their child's overall health is the prime motivator.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never even hinted that I had to suffer through anything. It was challenging for the student. The mother was concerned and involved enough to explain everything to me so that we could work as a team. Luissa asked for any experiences we may have had with the situation, and I gave mine to further inform her. So if you were attempting to lecture me, save it for someone who needs it.
Click to expand...


Team Methylphenidate


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The teacher should be willing to 'suffer' through difficult Mondays. Mondays may be that child's day to be the the messenger around the school and the one who passes out papers.
> 
> The kid's system does need the breaks from the meds, same with vacations. Too many teachers fail to find out the less than optimal side effects, for them, 'It's all about school.' These meds in younger children tend to make it very difficult for them to sleep. They also tend to suppress appetite, leading to either weight loss or normal growth. While parents worry about school, their child's overall health is the prime motivator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never even hinted that I had to suffer through anything. It was challenging for the student. The mother was concerned and involved enough to explain everything to me so that we could work as a team. Luissa asked for any experiences we may have had with the situation, and I gave mine to further inform her. So if you were attempting to lecture me, save it for someone who needs it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Team Methylphenidate
Click to expand...


Whatever the fuck that means...perhaps it has something to do with the video you posted that I still didn't watch.


----------



## Annie

Sherry said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never even hinted that I had to suffer through anything. It was challenging for the student. The mother was concerned and involved enough to explain everything to me so that we could work as a team. Luissa asked for any experiences we may have had with the situation, and I gave mine to further inform her. So if you were attempting to lecture me, save it for someone who needs it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Team Methylphenidate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever the fuck that means...perhaps it has something to do with the video you posted that I still didn't watch.
Click to expand...


Me neither, though I will. My guess a nutty shrink, who'd ever thunk such a creature exists? 

I do know that as a parent, I'd head for a neurologist first if available, a pediatrician second. Shrink? Not unless one of the others recommended, which is most unlikely with a child under 9.


----------



## eots

Sherry said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never even hinted that I had to suffer through anything. It was challenging for the student. The mother was concerned and involved enough to explain everything to me so that we could work as a team. Luissa asked for any experiences we may have had with the situation, and I gave mine to further inform her. So if you were attempting to lecture me, save it for someone who needs it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Team Methylphenidate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever the fuck that means...perhaps it has something to do with the video you posted that I still didn't watch.
Click to expand...


that would be the so called medication given to children with this made up illness...as a educator you should know this


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Team Methylphenidate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the fuck that means...perhaps it has something to do with the video you posted that I still didn't watch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that would be the so called medication given to children with this made up illness...as a educator you should know this
Click to expand...


I was a first grade teacher, not the school nurse. My job wasn't to diagnose the child or judge the parent's choice.


----------



## Amelia

Poor sad eots.  He needs more people to pay more attention to his spam.  He's crying out.  Here, eots, I'll toss you a bone.


The med I took was dextroamphetamine and it helped a LOT.


----------



## eots

Sherry said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever the fuck that means...perhaps it has something to do with the video you posted that I still didn't watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that would be the so called medication given to children with this made up illness...as a educator you should know this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was a first grade teacher, not the school nurse. My job wasn't to diagnose the child or judge the parent's choice.
Click to expand...


if I called myself part of a team or institution  that medicalized a childs personality and drugged them as a essential part of their education I would feel it incumbent on myself to know all the facts


----------



## eots

amelia said:


> poor sad eots.  He needs more people to pay more attention to his spam.  He's crying out.  Here, eots, i'll toss you a bone.
> 
> 
> The med i took was dextroamphetamine and it helped a lot.



yes a lot of cocain user make the same claim..some university students us amphetamines  for a competitive edge or athletes on steroids.. in the short term we can use  drugs to enhance performance but that is a different debate..the fact remain this is not a medical condition and there is no diagnostic test of anykind


----------



## Valerie

Annie said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know where you're located, but *if possible I'd go with a pediatric neurologist, rather than a pediatrician that 'specializes' in ADD or ADHD. Will be able to administer the cognitive tests, teacher/parent surveys,* EEG, and prescribe if necessary any meds.
Click to expand...






This is good advice... A pediatric neurologist can do a subjective and objective assessment of your child and offer you a treatment plan, where you can then defer the medication, if recommended...  Speak with the doctor about various alternatives to medication such as change in diet and routine, etc...  You can always seek another opinion/approach from another doctor who is more amenable to your minimal approach and once you feel comfortable, you can move forward with whomever is willing work together over-time to maximize your son's potential, without ever having to necessarily medicate him.  A pediatric neurologist will have all the best information and resources for you to make your own educated decision for your son...


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> that would be the so called medication given to children with this made up illness...as a educator you should know this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was a first grade teacher, not the school nurse. My job wasn't to diagnose the child or judge the parent's choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if I called myself part of a team or institution  that medicalized a childs personality and drugged them as a essential part of their education I would feel it incumbent on myself to know all the facts
Click to expand...


I didn't administer the meds, nor did I have the right to say whether or not I agreed/supported it...but the mother did a great job of informing me, and I don't really feel inclined to share with you what methods I learned to assist my student. I also don't really care how you define "team" in that situation, or any other, because you come off as a pious douche.


----------



## eots

the pious douches are those involved in fraud of drugging children


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> the pious douches are those involved in fraud of drugging children



I sure hope that you don't crack your skull when you fall off of your high horse.


----------



## eots

Sherry said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> the pious douches are those involved in fraud of drugging children
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope that you don't crack your skull when you fall off of your high horse.
Click to expand...


I deal in facts


----------



## eots




----------



## Mad Scientist

Don't get drawn into the drama Eots, just say yer' piece and move on.


----------



## Samson

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



With your _son in special programs since before he was two_, ....._with a sensory perception disorder _ I would be surprised you're not already accessing all the appropriate medical and social resources available.

At any rate, it doesn't sound like the run-of-the-mill ADHD. I would contact those associated with the sensory perception disorder diagnosis, and have them refer you to a specialist if necessary. They will be able to pass on the valuable information they have regarding the disorder he already has, and how it (and any meds he may be on already) may be effecting ADHD symptoms.


Now, for the run-of-the-mill cases, I have two comments:

1. ADHD is over-diagnosed by females in an increasingly feminized society: Boys to not act like Girls, and sitting in classes for long periods of time during which they are inactive is often very difficult for boys because they are MALES. Put the kid on a treadmill.

2. Medication administered to children over a period of years must be re-evaluated, particularly as the child enters puberty. ADHD perscriptions that worked perfectly well when the child is 10, might cause some weird shit when they are 13.


----------



## Amelia

Is eots the poster child for being drugfree?

Then meds, we need meds!  Stat!


----------



## eots

Amelia said:


> Is eots the poster child for being drugfree?
> 
> Then meds, we need meds!  Stat!



So you support giving psych drugs to children for nonexistent illnesses ?


----------



## Luissa

Samson said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With your _son in special programs since before he was two_, ....._with a sensory perception disorder _ I would be surprised you're not already accessing all the appropriate medical and social resources available.
> 
> At any rate, it doesn't sound like the run-of-the-mill ADHD. I would contact those associated with the sensory perception disorder diagnosis, and have them refer you to a specialist if necessary. They will be able to pass on the valuable information they have regarding the disorder he already has, and how it (and any meds he may be on already) may be effecting ADHD symptoms.
> 
> 
> Now, for the run-of-the-mill cases, I have two comments:
> 
> 1. ADHD is over-diagnosed by females in an increasingly feminized society: Boys to not act like Girls, and sitting in classes for long periods of time during which they are inactive is often very difficult for boys because they are MALES. Put the kid on a treadmill.
> 
> 2. Medication administered to children over a period of years must be re-evaluated, particularly as the child enters puberty. ADHD perscriptions that worked perfectly well when the child is 10, might cause some weird shit when they are 13.
Click to expand...


In regards to number one. I somewhat agree with the over diagnosed.


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> the pious douches are those involved in fraud of drugging children
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope that you don't crack your skull when you fall off of your high horse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I deal in facts
Click to expand...


And conspiracy theories.


----------



## Valerie

eots said:


> the pious douches are those involved in fraud of drugging children






You are smart to be leery of medicating your children and there are many very good doctors who practice medicine with a similar "less is more" approach, so you don't need to be necessarily afraid of doctors whose advice is generally based in medical science and standard treatment protocols.  IOW you can seek the advice of a medical doctor and still feel free to say "no thank you" to certain treatment recommendations, as there is no secret medical agenda to alter children's personalities... 

A good doctor will listen to parental feedback and there is really no harm in taking information and advice from well-educated professional experts.  You are still free to decide for yourself how you wish to proceed with various alternative treatment recommendations for your child, including eventually maybe relinquishing to 5mg of something, once a day for a 30 day trial run, IF _you_ decide it is necessary...


----------



## Dante

eots said:


> There is no such thing as ADHD



I had a doc who diagnosed it say he didn't believe it existed in the ways listed in the diagnostic tool book, but it's what he had to diagnose or be in trouble.


----------



## Dante

eots said:


> the pious douches are those involved in fraud of drugging children



kids who are 'special' in school get bullied and teased in special ways.


----------



## Amelia

When you actually have ADHD and start taking the right med, it can feel like a miracle.

As if you had been encloaked in gray mist and didn't know it until you woke up to a world with colors that you could move freely and purposefully in.


----------



## eots

Sherry said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope that you don't crack your skull when you fall off of your high horse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I deal in facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...


its no theory...it is a a fact...there is zero diagnostic evidence of ADHD
there is not a single test or any abnormality in the brain that can be shown in anyone with supposed ADHD..however brain abnormalities can without question be found in children given these drug treatments..these are facts


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> I deal in facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> its no theory...it is a a fact...there is zero diagnostic evidence of ADHD
> there is not a single test or any abnormality in the brain that can be shown in anyone with supposed ADHD..however brain abnormalities can without question be found in children given these drug treatments..these are facts
Click to expand...


Damn, you're slow...and my sarcasm is clearly wasted on you.


----------



## eots

Amelia said:


> When you actually have ADHD and start taking the right med, it can feel like a miracle.
> 
> As if you had been encloaked in gray mist and didn't know it until you woke up to a world with colors that you could move freely and purposefully in.



many methamphetamine users claim the same..because you get a euphoric buzz or preceive some performance enhancement is not evidence that ADHD is a real medical condition


----------



## eots

Sherry said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> And conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its no theory...it is a a fact...there is zero diagnostic evidence of ADHD
> there is not a single test or any abnormality in the brain that can be shown in anyone with supposed ADHD..however brain abnormalities can without question be found in children given these drug treatments..these are facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damn, you're slow...and my sarcasm is clearly wasted on you.
Click to expand...


facts and empirical evidence are clearly wasted on you


----------



## Sherry

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> its no theory...it is a a fact...there is zero diagnostic evidence of ADHD
> there is not a single test or any abnormality in the brain that can be shown in anyone with supposed ADHD..however brain abnormalities can without question be found in children given these drug treatments..these are facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you're slow...and my sarcasm is clearly wasted on you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> facts and empirical evidence are clearly wasted on you
Click to expand...


No, YOU'RE wasted.


----------



## Amelia

eots said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you actually have ADHD and start taking the right med, it can feel like a miracle.
> 
> As if you had been encloaked in gray mist and didn't know it until you woke up to a world with colors that you could move freely and purposefully in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> many methamphetamine users claim the same..because you get a euphoric buzz or preceive some performance enhancement is not evidence that ADHD is a real medical condition
Click to expand...




It's not a euphoric buzz, and it's not just perception.  You do not have a clue.  

Well, I gave you a couple of rounds of attention out of the goodness of my heart.  I'll let you go back to your regularly scheduled spamming without further interruption from me.  Your obsessive posts make a good case for the opposite of what you are proclaiming.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



There is a huge push to diagnose children with ADHD and many do not have anything more than a very active and lively nature that teachers would prefer to be toned down rather than accepting their job may be a bit more challenging. 

They tried to diagnose my own son years ago with ADHD and I refused to allow them to put him on medicine.  today?  He is fine!  How did I know he wasn't ADHD?  He was very hyper active but he was also a chess champion.  If that isn't attention abundance I don't know what is.  So do not worry too much about this but rather google some stories about the overmedicating of our youth today.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> its no theory...it is a a fact...there is zero diagnostic evidence of ADHD
> there is not a single test or any abnormality in the brain that can be shown in anyone with supposed ADHD..however brain abnormalities can without question be found in children given these drug treatments..these are facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you're slow...and my sarcasm is clearly wasted on you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> facts and empirical evidence are clearly wasted on you
Click to expand...


You haven't presented any facts.

Stick to watching YouTube and the Cartoon Channel, eots. Posting on a message board is clearly to difficult a task for your severely limited intellectual skills.

The ADHD Molecular Genetics Network. Report from the third international meeting of the attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder molecular genetics network. *American Journal of Medical Genetics, 2002, 114:272-277.*

Facts About ADHD



> ADHD is one of the most common neurobehavioral disorders of childhood. It is usually first diagnosed in childhood and often lasts into adulthood. Children with ADHD may have trouble paying attention, controlling impulsive behaviors (may act without thinking about what the result will be), or be overly active.


----------



## Samson

Jeremiah said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge push to diagnose children with ADHD and many do not have anything more than a very active and lively nature that teachers would prefer to be toned down rather than accepting their job may be a bit more challenging.
> 
> They tried to diagnose my own son years ago with ADHD and I refused to allow them to put him on medicine.  today?  He is fine!  How did I know he wasn't ADHD?  He was very hyper active but he was also a chess champion.  If that isn't attention abundance I don't know what is.  So do not worry too much about this but rather google some stories about the overmedicating of our youth today.
Click to expand...


Correct: Their is no questioning the link between feminization of society and the explosion of ADHD disorder among boys.

Boys are simply more active than girls.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you're slow...and my sarcasm is clearly wasted on you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> facts and empirical evidence are clearly wasted on you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't presented any facts.
> 
> Stick to watching YouTube and the Cartoon Channel, eots. Posting on a message board is clearly to difficult a task for your severely limited intellectual skills.
> 
> The ADHD Molecular Genetics Network. Report from the third international meeting of the attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder molecular genetics network. *American Journal of Medical Genetics, 2002, 114:272-277.*
> 
> Facts About ADHD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADHD is one of the most common neurobehavioral disorders of childhood. It is usually first diagnosed in childhood and often lasts into adulthood. Children with ADHD may have trouble paying attention, controlling impulsive behaviors (may act without thinking about what the result will be), or be overly active.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


what a clown..there is no genetic test or any other medical test for ADHD


----------



## eots

ADHD is  diagnosed by_" health professionals"_ who form their opinion by observing a child's behavior. There are no brain scans, blood tests, or anything else definite that is used during diagnosis.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> facts and empirical evidence are clearly wasted on you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't presented any facts.
> 
> Stick to watching YouTube and the Cartoon Channel, eots. Posting on a message board is clearly to difficult a task for your severely limited intellectual skills.
> 
> The ADHD Molecular Genetics Network. Report from the third international meeting of the attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder molecular genetics network. *American Journal of Medical Genetics, 2002, 114:272-277.*
> 
> Facts About ADHD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADHD is one of the most common neurobehavioral disorders of childhood. It is usually first diagnosed in childhood and often lasts into adulthood. Children with ADHD may have trouble paying attention, controlling impulsive behaviors (may act without thinking about what the result will be), or be overly active.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what a clown..there is no genetic test or any other medical test for ADHD
Click to expand...


Yeah....I'm going with the credability of the American Journal of Medical Genetics here...not some idiot.


----------



## eots

*From Samsons junk science site*


A child with ADHD might:

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others

CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't presented any facts.
> 
> Stick to watching YouTube and the Cartoon Channel, eots. Posting on a message board is clearly to difficult a task for your severely limited intellectual skills.
> 
> The ADHD Molecular Genetics Network. Report from the third international meeting of the attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder molecular genetics network. *American Journal of Medical Genetics, 2002, 114:272-277.*
> 
> Facts About ADHD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what a clown..there is no genetic test or any other medical test for ADHD
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah....I'm going with the credability of the American Journal of Medical Genetics here...not some idiot.
Click to expand...


No your not they have made no such claim as a gentic maker for ADHD


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> *From Samsons junk science site*
> 
> 
> A child with ADHD might:
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD



From eots "facts:"



opps.......sorry......there are none.


Thanks for playing: Pick up your credability and a ballon of hot air on your way out the door.


----------



## eots

* Foundation for Excellence in Mental Health Care*



*Not in Their Genes: A Critical View of the Genetics of
Attention-De&#64257;cit Hyperactivity Disorder*


total weight of evidence in favor of a genetic basis or predisposition for ADHD, it is concluded that a role for genetic factors is not supported and that future research should be directed toward psychosocial causes &#63721;


http://femhc.org/portals/2/publications/childrenssummit2012/adhd/not_in_their_genes.pdf


----------



## Luissa

If you want to discuss ADHD being something that is made up, start your own thread Eots. I was looking for stories and some helpful hints, not three pages of your tin foil bullshit.


----------



## eots

Luissa said:


> If you want to discuss ADHD being something that is made up, start your own thread Eots. I was looking for stories and some helpful hints, not three pages of your tin foil bullshit.



you are writing off indisputable facts as tinfoil...ask your doctor...there is no medical test of any kind for ADHD it is all based on showing the behaviours listed in samsons site thats it..I am giving you _helpful hints_ from experience...you do not want to give your child methanphetimines


----------



## eots




----------



## eots




----------



## Delia

eots said:


> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> my son has add (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with add, and put on ritalin.  At the time it was like a god-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through junior high when he got into wrestling.  I thought he was taking it through high school and found out when he decided to enlist in the national guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his psy ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult add (i think he's hyper too!!!).*  they say it is, or can be, hereditary. * i know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how can they say its hereditary when there is not a single diagnostic test ?
Click to expand...


Follow the chain. My dad has the symptoms, as does my brother, as does my nephew.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> my son has add (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with add, and put on ritalin.  At the time it was like a god-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through junior high when he got into wrestling.  I thought he was taking it through high school and found out when he decided to enlist in the national guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his psy ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult add (i think he's hyper too!!!).*  they say it is, or can be, hereditary. * i know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how can they say its hereditary when there is not a single diagnostic test ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Follow the chain. My dad has the symptoms, as does my brother, as does my nephew.
Click to expand...


and what symptoms would those be ???


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> how can they say its hereditary when there is not a single diagnostic test ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the chain. My dad has the symptoms, as does my brother, as does my nephew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and what symptoms would those be ???
Click to expand...


Ooh, the dreaded triple question mark.

I'm pretty sure you already know what the symptoms of ADHD are.


----------



## jillian

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



i'm sure you'll get all the appropriate information and make whatever decisions you need to. i know you won't listen to the idiots who say there's no such thing as ADHD. and don't listen to the idiots who see it under every rock.

good luck. i know he'll be fine.


----------



## jillian

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the chain. My dad has the symptoms, as does my brother, as does my nephew.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and what symptoms would those be ???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooh, the dreaded triple question mark.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you already know what the symptoms of ADHD are.
Click to expand...


yes, but he can't say it's a government conspiracy unless he says there's no such thing.

he isn't very bright.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Follow the chain. My dad has the symptoms, as does my brother, as does my nephew.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and what symptoms would those be ???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ooh, the dreaded triple question mark.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you already know what the symptoms of ADHD are.
Click to expand...


I know they are incredibly vague and subjective...because they are not real science


----------



## eots

jillian said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> and what symptoms would those be ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh, the dreaded triple question mark.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you already know what the symptoms of ADHD are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes, but he can't say it's a government conspiracy unless he says there's no such thing.
> 
> he isn't very bright.
Click to expand...


stupid...


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> and what symptoms would those be ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh, the dreaded triple question mark.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you already know what the symptoms of ADHD are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know they are incredibly vague and subjective...because they are not real science
Click to expand...


Then you've never had someone with that issue in your immediate circle, because the symptoms are pretty darn obvious in my family.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh, the dreaded triple question mark.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you already know what the symptoms of ADHD are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know they are incredibly vague and subjective...because they are not real science
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then you've never had someone with that issue in your immediate circle, because the symptoms are pretty darn obvious in my family.
Click to expand...


well then perhaps you can describe them and then explain how you knpow they are not simply personality types and are in fact organic medical conditions


----------



## Luissa

eots said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to discuss ADHD being something that is made up, start your own thread Eots. I was looking for stories and some helpful hints, not three pages of your tin foil bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are writing off indisputable facts as tinfoil...ask your doctor...there is no medical test of any kind for ADHD it is all based on showing the behaviours listed in samsons site thats it..I am giving you _helpful hints_ from experience...you do not want to give your child methanphetimines
Click to expand...

I am not planning on giving my child methamphetamines.


----------



## eots

Luissa said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to discuss ADHD being something that is made up, start your own thread Eots. I was looking for stories and some helpful hints, not three pages of your tin foil bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are writing off indisputable facts as tinfoil...ask your doctor...there is no medical test of any kind for ADHD it is all based on showing the behaviours listed in samsons site thats it..I am giving you _helpful hints_ from experience...you do not want to give your child methanphetimines
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not planning on giving my child methamphetamines.
Click to expand...


good...because that is the prescribed treatment the alternative psychiatrist may offer is ssris..even more damaging..so dont fall for that either

Medications

Stimulant medications have been found to be effective in alleviating ADHD symptoms. Common stimulants include Ritalin, Dexedrine, Concerta, Metadate, Focalin, and Adderall. Some people respond better to one kind of stimulant and not another. Read more about Stimulant Medications.
While stimulants are typically the first choice of medication used to treat ADHD, there are a several non-stimulants that may be prescribed. These include atomoxetine, tricyclic antidepressants, and bupropion. Read more about Non Stimulant Medications Used to Treat ADHD.

What is ADHD Treatment


----------



## boedicca

I've read that in some schools, 90% of the boys are on drugs for ADHD.   I'll bet that the majority are being treated for behaving like normal active boys...and the mostly female staff call them ADHD so they can drug them into behaving like girls.   The parents are then pressured to do something about their boys.  Hence the drugs.

Yet another reason to avoid public schools.


----------



## eots

they tried to do this with both of my grown children when they where in grade school.. the very qualities  they wanted to drug out of them that made them challenging students are what makes them the dynamic ,creative, driven individuals they are today


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know they are incredibly vague and subjective...because they are not real science
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you've never had someone with that issue in your immediate circle, because the symptoms are pretty darn obvious in my family.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well then perhaps you can describe them and then explain how you knpow they are not simply personality types and are in fact organic medical conditions
Click to expand...


No. Because you're spoiling for a fight, and I refuse to indulge you.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you've never had someone with that issue in your immediate circle, because the symptoms are pretty darn obvious in my family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well then perhaps you can describe them and then explain how you knpow they are not simply personality types and are in fact organic medical conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. Because you're spoiling for a fight, and I refuse to indulge you.
Click to expand...


Fail..


----------



## AmyNation

I have a close friend who was diagnosed with ADHD when she was 12. Her parents felt like meds weren't the right way for her, and so she mostly suffered with it until she went to college. She struggled, a lot ,with concentration issues and eventually went back to her doctor and was prescribed meds. The difference is night and day, you can tell just being in her presence when she is or isn't on her meds.

I know many people are very anti-meds, and I can understand why. I would only say, meds helped my friend immensely.


----------



## Againsheila

Amelia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you actually have ADHD and start taking the right med, it can feel like a miracle.
> 
> As if you had been encloaked in gray mist and didn't know it until you woke up to a world with colors that you could move freely and purposefully in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> many methamphetamine users claim the same..because you get a euphoric buzz or preceive some performance enhancement is not evidence that ADHD is a real medical condition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a euphoric buzz, and it's not just perception.  You do not have a clue.
> 
> Well, I gave you a couple of rounds of attention out of the goodness of my heart.  I'll let you go back to your regularly scheduled spamming without further interruption from me.  Your obsessive posts make a good case for the opposite of what you are proclaiming.
Click to expand...



Those who believe ADHD is made up need to do some research.  It's a neurobiological disorder that shows up in PETT scans of the brain.  There used to be a book "Neurobiolobical Disorders in Children and Adolescence."  It was available only at the college book stores, you couldn't even order it from the regular book stores, it was a text book for aspiring doctors.  I have a copy.  I've seen the scans, there is a physical difference.


----------



## eots

Againsheila said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> many methamphetamine users claim the same..because you get a euphoric buzz or preceive some performance enhancement is not evidence that ADHD is a real medical condition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a euphoric buzz, and it's not just perception.  You do not have a clue.
> 
> Well, I gave you a couple of rounds of attention out of the goodness of my heart.  I'll let you go back to your regularly scheduled spamming without further interruption from me.  Your obsessive posts make a good case for the opposite of what you are proclaiming.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those who believe ADHD is made up need to do some research.  It's a neurobiological disorder that shows up in PETT scans of the brain.  There used to be a book "Neurobiolobical Disorders in Children and Adolescence."  It was available only at the college book stores, you couldn't even order it from the regular book stores, it was a text book for aspiring doctors.  I have a copy.  I've seen the scans, there is a physical difference.
Click to expand...


of course you provide no link for this made up fact...the psychical difference could only be found in children that had already been treated with drugs..there is zero...not one... definitive test to show that ADHD is medical condition..there is zero proof of ADHD being any kind of organic condition...do some research..


----------



## eots

There are several myths about ADHD

There are several myths about ADHD that have become quite popular", default", but still to this day remain unproven.

Dispel the Myths. There are several myths about ADHD that have become quite popular, but still to this day remain unproven.  Sadly, we continue to hear that parents are being told these same myths over and over again.  Simply put, these myths are misinformation.  Misinformation can cause confusion and frustration, and if heard enough times can cause a person to make the wrong choices.  

Have you been told?
*
1. That there is an actual test to detect if your child has ADD/ADHD?*

*Answer:  There is NO test in existence to determine the diagnosis of ADHD.*  There is NO objective test (blood, urine, bodily fluids, bile, or brain) that a doctor can use as an indicator of ADD/ADHD.    

How we know this:  In 1998* The National Institute of Health held a Conference* on ADHD.  At the end of this conference they issued this statement:  &#8220;&#8230;.We do not have an independent, valid test for ADHD, and there are* no data to indicate that ADHD is due to a brain malfunction.&#8221;*

2. Brain/Pet Scans as tests?  

*Have you been told that there is a brain/pet scan that can determine that you child has ADHD, but that this scan is so expensive that it is not affordable by the majority of people, and that insurance companies do not pay for it? *

*Answer:  There is NO exact Brain/Pet scan that determines conclusively that a child has this disorder.*

How we know this:  On November 16-18, 1998, at the National Institute of Health Consensus Conference on ADHD, it was revealed that the on-average, *10% brain atrophy, seen in ADHD subjects, on MRI (structural) scans, was due, not to the never-validated disease, ADHD, but to the long-term methylphenidate/amphetamine &#8220;treatment&#8221; on all of the ADHD subjects.&#8221;*

There are several myths about ADHD


----------



## Mr. H.

I attended many IEP meetings along with the ex. They had a decent group assembled, but my son's issues resided with his mother and not his physical or mental attributes. Not a commentary on your parenting, Ms. L. Just booze rambling here... 

Funny story- we went around the table and made self-introductions. When it came to me I introduced myself as the "Paterfamilias". That drew a lot of laughs. 

I was called into the grade school at the end of the year to pick up a final grade report. They're like "oh by the way- there's a half bottle of Ritalin left over from your son's semester. Do you want to take them now or should we call in his mother to pick them up"?

Score.


----------



## Caroljo

Luissa said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son has ADD (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with ADD, and put on Ritalin.  At the time it was like a God-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through Junior high when he got into wrestling.  I THOUGHT he was taking it through High School and found out when he decided to enlist in the National Guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the Army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his Psy Ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult ADD (I think he's hyper too!!!).  They say it is, or can be, hereditary.  I know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I believe it can be heredity too. I for one have ADD, I know my mom has either or.
> The reason I do what I do is because I don't get bored. Getting bored is my down fall, I usually just move on and don't finish a task. I have thought about getting medicated myself, don't know if I am ready to put my son on medication though.
Click to expand...


My son's teachers never had a lot of trouble with him because he wasn't hyper active.  He had a hard time concentrating.  If his teacher was reading a story that he wasn't interested in, he'd wander off and do something else.  So he had the same problem of being bored, and he's still like that!  I think that's why he went in the Army and now is training in Special Ops.  He loves to be busy and always something new.....

You could try some of the meds and if you don't like it just quit.  But you might find out you can take low doses and feel like a different person.


----------



## tinydancer

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



Oh my heart breaks for you. The school told me my son had ADHD. First moment we twigged was how on earth did a teacher make this decision.


----------



## Caroljo

Annie said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son has ADD (not the hyper-active type).  He's 31 yrs old now.  When he was in 2nd grade he was really struggling to learn to read and concentrate on other work and would cry he didn't want to go to school.  He was diagnosed with ADD, and put on Ritalin.  At the time it was like a God-send, he excelled!  He kept taking it through Junior high when he got into wrestling.  I THOUGHT he was taking it through High School and found out when he decided to enlist in the National Guard that he hadn't taken it since he'd been in 9th grade!  He wasn't taking it and just throwing the pill out!  And he had gone all through high school being in sports and never once did his grades go low where he couldn't participate in sports, he was actually doing real well.  He had just decided he didn't want to take it any longer and he had to make himself excel.  He's now been in the Army for 10 yrs, and just finishing his Psy Ops training.
> 
> So i'd say don't worry about it too much.  You might try the medication and see how it helps him for awhile.  It did help my son a lot when he was younger, he just learned how to deal with it because he was determined.   My husband has adult ADD (I think he's hyper too!!!).  They say it is, or can be, hereditary.  I know it's hard to put your kids on medication, but lots of times it can help.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen kids on Ritalin or others from the early years, that by middle or high school give up the meds and it seems for most of them, they'd learned coping strategies. Perhaps those early years on meds gave them the focus to listen to learning strategies and behavior cues they may have missed without? I don't really know.
> 
> What I've also seen is homeschooling can be an alternative, if the parents have the resources and inclination.
> 
> What is the saddest of all is a small child being diagnosed or failing to be diagnosed because the parent doesn't want to cope or admit. School is hell for the child and that child disrupts the classroom, creating personality conflicts and often social issues too. Many parent meetings, most ending in tears or threats. By middle school the child is usually academically behind and very angry, for good reasons. Starting meds at this age is usually a horror for both child and parent. The hormones play havoc and most 12-15 year olds do not like the 'strangeness' they feel.
Click to expand...


I completely agree!  I know it helped in when he was very young, and he knew when he was ready to be off them.  Now he's excelled way further than we ever imagined!


----------



## Againsheila

eots said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a euphoric buzz, and it's not just perception.  You do not have a clue.
> 
> Well, I gave you a couple of rounds of attention out of the goodness of my heart.  I'll let you go back to your regularly scheduled spamming without further interruption from me.  Your obsessive posts make a good case for the opposite of what you are proclaiming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those who believe ADHD is made up need to do some research.  It's a neurobiological disorder that shows up in PETT scans of the brain.  There used to be a book *"Neurobiolobical Disorders in Children and Adolescence."*  It was available only at the college book stores, you couldn't even order it from the regular book stores, it was a text book for aspiring doctors.  I have a copy.  I've seen the scans, there is a physical difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> of course you provide no link for this made up fact...the psychical difference could only be found in children that had already been treated with drugs..there is zero...not one... definitive test to show that ADHD is medical condition..there is zero proof of ADHD being any kind of organic condition...do some research..
Click to expand...


I provided the title of a book.  Get it and read it.  I've done my research.  I used a TEXTBOOK for doctors.  My son's dentist found the book so interesting he ordered his own copy.  It covers Autism and other neurobiological disorders as well.  

I don't care what made up crap you've read on the net, it can't compare to a TEXTBOOK used at the local university.


----------



## Againsheila

eots said:


> There are several myths about ADHD
> 
> There are several myths about ADHD that have become quite popular", default", but still to this day remain unproven.
> 
> Dispel the Myths. There are several myths about ADHD that have become quite popular, but still to this day remain unproven.  Sadly, we continue to hear that parents are being told these same myths over and over again.  Simply put, these myths are misinformation.  Misinformation can cause confusion and frustration, and if heard enough times can cause a person to make the wrong choices.
> 
> Have you been told?
> *
> 1. That there is an actual test to detect if your child has ADD/ADHD?*
> 
> *Answer:  There is NO test in existence to determine the diagnosis of ADHD.*  There is NO objective test (blood, urine, bodily fluids, bile, or brain) that a doctor can use as an indicator of ADD/ADHD.
> 
> How we know this:  In 1998* The National Institute of Health held a Conference* on ADHD.  At the end of this conference they issued this statement:  .We do not have an independent, valid test for ADHD, and there are* no data to indicate that ADHD is due to a brain malfunction.*
> 
> 2. Brain/Pet Scans as tests?
> 
> *Have you been told that there is a brain/pet scan that can determine that you child has ADHD, but that this scan is so expensive that it is not affordable by the majority of people, and that insurance companies do not pay for it? *
> 
> *Answer:  There is NO exact Brain/Pet scan that determines conclusively that a child has this disorder.*
> 
> *How we know this:  On November 16-18, 1998, at the National Institute of Health Consensus Conference on ADHD, it was revealed that the on-average, 10% brain atrophy, seen in ADHD subjects, on MRI (structural) scans, was due, not to the never-validated disease, ADHD, but to the long-term methylphenidate/amphetamine treatment on all of the ADHD subjects.
> *
> There are several myths about ADHD



Okay, my information is older than this therefore, perhaps I'm wrong.  There is nothing in the above that states ADHD doesn't exist, and it ignores completely the blind studies where the children do better on the drug than off.


----------



## eots

againsheila said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> there are several myths about adhd
> 
> there are several myths about adhd that have become quite popular", default", but still to this day remain unproven.
> 
> Dispel the myths. There are several myths about adhd that have become quite popular, but still to this day remain unproven.  Sadly, we continue to hear that parents are being told these same myths over and over again.  Simply put, these myths are misinformation.  Misinformation can cause confusion and frustration, and if heard enough times can cause a person to make the wrong choices.
> 
> Have you been told?
> *
> 1. That there is an actual test to detect if your child has add/adhd?*
> 
> *answer:  There is no test in existence to determine the diagnosis of adhd.*  there is no objective test (blood, urine, bodily fluids, bile, or brain) that a doctor can use as an indicator of add/adhd.
> 
> How we know this:  In 1998* the national institute of health held a conference* on adhd.  At the end of this conference they issued this statement:  &#8220;&#8230;.we do not have an independent, valid test for adhd, and there are* no data to indicate that adhd is due to a brain malfunction.&#8221;*
> 
> 2. Brain/pet scans as tests?
> 
> *have you been told that there is a brain/pet scan that can determine that you child has adhd, but that this scan is so expensive that it is not affordable by the majority of people, and that insurance companies do not pay for it? *
> 
> *answer:  There is no exact brain/pet scan that determines conclusively that a child has this disorder.*
> 
> *how we know this:  On november 16-18, 1998, at the national institute of health consensus conference on adhd, it was revealed that the on-average, 10% brain atrophy, seen in adhd subjects, on mri (structural) scans, was due, not to the never-validated disease, adhd, but to the long-term methylphenidate/amphetamine &#8220;treatment&#8221; on all of the adhd subjects.&#8221;
> *
> there are several myths about adhd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay, my information is older than this therefore, perhaps i'm wrong.  There is nothing in the above that states adhd doesn't exist, and it ignores completely the blind studies where the children do better on the drug than off.
Click to expand...


and now you reference  more in-linked studies...there are studies that say steroid users run faster in your world it would seem logical to then assume before the drugs they had a medical muscular disorder...if you want to make the argument that there is nothing wrong with a little bit of speed to stay focused and get the job done  you might have a case..but there is no case for ADHD is a brain disorder


----------



## Againsheila

eots said:


> againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> there are several myths about adhd
> 
> there are several myths about adhd that have become quite popular", default", but still to this day remain unproven.
> 
> Dispel the myths. There are several myths about adhd that have become quite popular, but still to this day remain unproven.  Sadly, we continue to hear that parents are being told these same myths over and over again.  Simply put, these myths are misinformation.  Misinformation can cause confusion and frustration, and if heard enough times can cause a person to make the wrong choices.
> 
> Have you been told?
> *
> 1. That there is an actual test to detect if your child has add/adhd?*
> 
> *answer:  There is no test in existence to determine the diagnosis of adhd.*  there is no objective test (blood, urine, bodily fluids, bile, or brain) that a doctor can use as an indicator of add/adhd.
> 
> How we know this:  In 1998* the national institute of health held a conference* on adhd.  At the end of this conference they issued this statement:  .we do not have an independent, valid test for adhd, and there are* no data to indicate that adhd is due to a brain malfunction.*
> 
> 2. Brain/pet scans as tests?
> 
> *have you been told that there is a brain/pet scan that can determine that you child has adhd, but that this scan is so expensive that it is not affordable by the majority of people, and that insurance companies do not pay for it? *
> 
> *answer:  There is no exact brain/pet scan that determines conclusively that a child has this disorder.*
> 
> *how we know this:  On november 16-18, 1998, at the national institute of health consensus conference on adhd, it was revealed that the on-average, 10% brain atrophy, seen in adhd subjects, on mri (structural) scans, was due, not to the never-validated disease, adhd, but to the long-term methylphenidate/amphetamine treatment on all of the adhd subjects.
> *
> there are several myths about adhd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay, my information is older than this therefore, perhaps i'm wrong.  There is nothing in the above that states adhd doesn't exist, and it ignores completely the blind studies where the children do better on the drug than off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and now you reference  more in-linked studies...there are studies that say steroid users run faster in your world it would seem logical to then assume before the drugs they had a medical muscular disorder...if you want to make the argument that there is nothing wrong with a little bit of speed to stay focused and get the job done  you might have a case..but there is no case for ADHD is a brain disorder
Click to expand...


The difference is that with the drug, it only works if the child IS ADHD.  That's why the blind study.  So the teachers nor the parents or even the doctor know if they are getting the drug that week or the placebo.  After the test, they determine which week they did best, if it matches up with the drug then they are ADHD.  Some people try the test again to be sure, I have no problems with that.  My son couldn't sit still for 5 minutes without the drug when he was in 1st grade.  I took him off it in 3rd grade due to side effects.  There are other things to do to help, like behavioral modification and making sure they get plenty of exercise during recess, etc.  My son's school didn't know and didn't suspect anything when I took him off the drug but boy were they made when a year and a 1/2 later they found out he was no longer on the drug.  I was a pariah as far as they were concerned.  And suddenly my son started having behavior problems again, problems he didn't have when they thought he was on the drug.  I ended up removing him from that school and homeschooling him for a few years.

BTW, when my son was in 7th grade, I took him to a private psychiatrist and he was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.  Something I suspected back when he was in 2nd grade but of course, because I suggested it, he couldn't possibly have it.  Oh, and hyperactivity, he still had that.  So did my other Autistic son.  For him, we paid a lot of money for a drug patch to keep him from being so hyper because it wasn't designed for that reason and the insurance company refused to pay for it even with a letter from his pediatric neurologist.  

So we know Hyperactivity exists.  Is it just the ADD part of it you believe is made up?


----------



## eots

Againsheila said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay, my information is older than this therefore, perhaps i'm wrong.  There is nothing in the above that states adhd doesn't exist, and it ignores completely the blind studies where the children do better on the drug than off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and now you reference  more in-linked studies...there are studies that say steroid users run faster in your world it would seem logical to then assume before the drugs they had a medical muscular disorder...if you want to make the argument that there is nothing wrong with a little bit of speed to stay focused and get the job done  you might have a case..but there is no case for ADHD is a brain disorder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The difference is that with the drug, it only works if the child IS ADHD.  That's why the blind study.  So the teachers nor the parents or even the doctor know if they are getting the drug that week or the placebo.  After the test, they determine which week they did best, if it matches up with the drug then they are ADHD.  Some people try the test again to be sure, I have no problems with that.  My son couldn't sit still for 5 minutes without the drug when he was in 1st grade.  I took him off it in 3rd grade due to side effects.  There are other things to do to help, like behavioral modification and making sure they get plenty of exercise during recess, etc.  My son's school didn't know and didn't suspect anything when I took him off the drug but boy were they made when a year and a 1/2 later they found out he was no longer on the drug.  I was a pariah as far as they were concerned.  And suddenly my son started having behavior problems again, problems he didn't have when they thought he was on the drug.  I ended up removing him from that school and homeschooling him for a few years.
> 
> BTW, when my son was in 7th grade, I took him to a private psychiatrist and he was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.  Something I suspected back when he was in 2nd grade but of course, because I suggested it, he couldn't possibly have it.  Oh, and hyperactivity, he still had that.  So did my other Autistic son.  For him, we paid a lot of money for a drug patch to keep him from being so hyper because it wasn't designed for that reason and the insurance company refused to pay for it even with a letter from his pediatric neurologist.
> 
> So we know Hyperactivity exists.  Is it just the ADD part of it you believe is made up?
Click to expand...


the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms in a school setting


----------



## eots

aspbergers became the next big fad diagnosis after ADHD...


----------



## eots

*Asperger's By Proxy*

This article examines a troubling aspect of contemporary clinical psychology &#8212; it examines how parents control their children by pretending that psychology is more evidence-based and authoritative than it is. The ultimate victims are the children, who may enter adult life believing that authority, even faux authority, ranks higher than scientific evidence. In today's world, such a belief represents a terrible handicap.

In my other articles , example "The Myth of Mental Illness", I show that ethical considerations and the complexity of human behavior prevent theoretical psychology from performing the kinds of experiments that would place clinical psychology on a firm evidentiary footing, and that as a result clinical psychology must get along without a scientific grounding in testable, falsifiable theoretical principles. I would like to begin by restating that argument through a comparison of physics, mainstream medicine, and clinical psychology.

Asperger's By Proxy


----------



## Againsheila

eots said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> and now you reference  more in-linked studies...there are studies that say steroid users run faster in your world it would seem logical to then assume before the drugs they had a medical muscular disorder...if you want to make the argument that there is nothing wrong with a little bit of speed to stay focused and get the job done  you might have a case..but there is no case for ADHD is a brain disorder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that with the drug, it only works if the child IS ADHD.  That's why the blind study.  So the teachers nor the parents or even the doctor know if they are getting the drug that week or the placebo.  After the test, they determine which week they did best, if it matches up with the drug then they are ADHD.  Some people try the test again to be sure, I have no problems with that.  My son couldn't sit still for 5 minutes without the drug when he was in 1st grade.  I took him off it in 3rd grade due to side effects.  There are other things to do to help, like behavioral modification and making sure they get plenty of exercise during recess, etc.  My son's school didn't know and didn't suspect anything when I took him off the drug but boy were they made when a year and a 1/2 later they found out he was no longer on the drug.  I was a pariah as far as they were concerned.  And suddenly my son started having behavior problems again, problems he didn't have when they thought he was on the drug.  I ended up removing him from that school and homeschooling him for a few years.
> 
> BTW, when my son was in 7th grade, I took him to a private psychiatrist and he was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.  Something I suspected back when he was in 2nd grade but of course, because I suggested it, he couldn't possibly have it.  Oh, and hyperactivity, he still had that.  So did my other Autistic son.  For him, we paid a lot of money for a drug patch to keep him from being so hyper because it wasn't designed for that reason and the insurance company refused to pay for it even with a letter from his pediatric neurologist.
> 
> So we know Hyperactivity exists.  Is it just the ADD part of it you believe is made up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms
> in a school setting
Click to expand...


You said it yourself, it was a problem in school.  He's adjusted and he's living with it in the real world, that doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.  He's turned it into a gift but few people can get jobs if they can't get an education and they can't get an education if they can't sit still enough to learn.  

Guess what? Savant-ism is a neurological disorder too.  Do you know what that is?  It's what gives certain people talents like photographic memories, etc.  The fact that it's a good thing doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.

Interesting that you've gone from arguing that it doesn't exist to claiming it's not a disorder.....


----------



## eots

*What's A Mental Disorder? Even Experts Can't Agree*
"Epidemic of Asperger's." Frances edited the last edition of the DSM, and he's also the new DSM's most prominent critic.

*Frances is the one who put the word Asperger's in the DSM in the first place, thereby making it an official mental disorder.*

In the editions before Frances was editor, there was an entry for autism, but it was defined by severe symptoms. Frances says doctors felt the diagnosis for autism didn't cover a more mild disorder they were actually encountering.nd for Frances, the lesson of these experiences is clear. Once you put a new diagnosis in the DSM, there is no controlling what will happen to it. So there's only one thing to do:
*"And so kids who previously might have been considered on the boundary, eccentric, socially shy, but bright and doing well in school would mainstream [into] regular classes," Frances says. "Now if they get the diagnosis of Asperger's disorder, [they] get into a special program where they may get $50,000 a year worth of educational services."*
*
"Anticipate the worst. If something can be misused, it will be misused,"* Frances says. "If diagnosis can lead to overdiagnosis and overtreatment, that will happen. So you need to be very, very cautious in making changes that may *open the door for a flood of fad diagnoses."*

As far as Frances is concerned, the new DSM is proposing too many diagnoses that are written in too broad a way, meaning that *ultimately a huge number of new people will be categorized as mentally ill.*

What's A Mental Disorder? Even Experts Can't Agree : NPR


----------



## eots

Againsheila said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that with the drug, it only works if the child IS ADHD.  That's why the blind study.  So the teachers nor the parents or even the doctor know if they are getting the drug that week or the placebo.  After the test, they determine which week they did best, if it matches up with the drug then they are ADHD.  Some people try the test again to be sure, I have no problems with that.  My son couldn't sit still for 5 minutes without the drug when he was in 1st grade.  I took him off it in 3rd grade due to side effects.  There are other things to do to help, like behavioral modification and making sure they get plenty of exercise during recess, etc.  My son's school didn't know and didn't suspect anything when I took him off the drug but boy were they made when a year and a 1/2 later they found out he was no longer on the drug.  I was a pariah as far as they were concerned.  And suddenly my son started having behavior problems again, problems he didn't have when they thought he was on the drug.  I ended up removing him from that school and homeschooling him for a few years.
> 
> BTW, when my son was in 7th grade, I took him to a private psychiatrist and he was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.  Something I suspected back when he was in 2nd grade but of course, because I suggested it, he couldn't possibly have it.  Oh, and hyperactivity, he still had that.  So did my other Autistic son.  For him, we paid a lot of money for a drug patch to keep him from being so hyper because it wasn't designed for that reason and the insurance company refused to pay for it even with a letter from his pediatric neurologist.
> 
> So we know Hyperactivity exists.  Is it just the ADD part of it you believe is made up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms
> in a school setting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said it yourself, it was a problem in school.  He's adjusted and he's living with it in the real world, that doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.  He's turned it into a gift but few people can get jobs if they can't get an education and they can't get an education if they can't sit still enough to learn.
> 
> Guess what? Savant-ism is a neurological disorder too.  Do you know what that is?  It's what gives certain people talents like photographic memories, etc.  The fact that it's a good thing doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.
> 
> Interesting that you've gone from arguing that it doesn't exist to claiming it's not a disorder.....
Click to expand...


it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions


----------



## bayoubill

I've always had trouble fitting into the various expectations of others...

I was a spacy kid growing up... parents and school folks kept telling me "we know you can do better"...


here I am now at 60 years old...

been a bumpy road...


last few years, I've had folks tell me they think I may have been "ADD" all along, or "high-functioning autistic"... or sumpin' else along those same lines...

back 50 years ago, if they had a fancy name for the way I was, they'd a' prolly called it sumpin' like "lazy white boy syndrome"...


----------



## Si modo

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.


I'm sorry.

Here's what I would do...that's all I'm saying, and I could be totally wrong if I were to do it.  Knowing that teachers LOVE chemically restraining children who cause them more work than they would prefer, the LAST thing I would do is take your cutie to the MD they recommend.

Talk to your boy's pediatrician for a reference for an examination, if you have good confidence in your pediatrician.  If not, do some research on line, talk to trusted friends and neighbors, etc.

But, no; I would not take him to the 'specialist" the school recommends...last thing I would do.


----------



## Katzndogz

eots said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> and now you reference  more in-linked studies...there are studies that say steroid users run faster in your world it would seem logical to then assume before the drugs they had a medical muscular disorder...if you want to make the argument that there is nothing wrong with a little bit of speed to stay focused and get the job done  you might have a case..but there is no case for ADHD is a brain disorder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that with the drug, it only works if the child IS ADHD.  That's why the blind study.  So the teachers nor the parents or even the doctor know if they are getting the drug that week or the placebo.  After the test, they determine which week they did best, if it matches up with the drug then they are ADHD.  Some people try the test again to be sure, I have no problems with that.  My son couldn't sit still for 5 minutes without the drug when he was in 1st grade.  I took him off it in 3rd grade due to side effects.  There are other things to do to help, like behavioral modification and making sure they get plenty of exercise during recess, etc.  My son's school didn't know and didn't suspect anything when I took him off the drug but boy were they made when a year and a 1/2 later they found out he was no longer on the drug.  I was a pariah as far as they were concerned.  And suddenly my son started having behavior problems again, problems he didn't have when they thought he was on the drug.  I ended up removing him from that school and homeschooling him for a few years.
> 
> BTW, when my son was in 7th grade, I took him to a private psychiatrist and he was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.  Something I suspected back when he was in 2nd grade but of course, because I suggested it, he couldn't possibly have it.  Oh, and hyperactivity, he still had that.  So did my other Autistic son.  For him, we paid a lot of money for a drug patch to keep him from being so hyper because it wasn't designed for that reason and the insurance company refused to pay for it even with a letter from his pediatric neurologist.
> 
> So we know Hyperactivity exists.  Is it just the ADD part of it you believe is made up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms in a school setting
Click to expand...


Normalcy is a mental disorder.  Especially in boys.   Boys are not independent.  They are actually dysfunctional girls and must be medicated to act more like girls.

Your experience is quite common.  The ones who need to be drugged are often the most imaginative and creative.   They are the hardest workers.  But then being a "workaholic" is also a mental disorder that must be drugged out.    Children that like to run or climb are hyperactive.   Those that use creative ways of problem solving have ADD.  

If you are a workaholic who likes to work.  Never fear.  There are drugs that can make you as lazy as the next guy.

The TRUTH About Workaholics | CareerCast.com


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms
> in a school setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You said it yourself, it was a problem in school.  He's adjusted and he's living with it in the real world, that doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.  He's turned it into a gift but few people can get jobs if they can't get an education and they can't get an education if they can't sit still enough to learn.
> 
> Guess what? Savant-ism is a neurological disorder too.  Do you know what that is?  It's what gives certain people talents like photographic memories, etc.  The fact that it's a good thing doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.
> 
> Interesting that you've gone from arguing that it doesn't exist to claiming it's not a disorder.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions
Click to expand...


For something that _does not exists as a medical condition_ it certainly has the attention of the CDC.

As you have no credentials to know anymore about the subject than the ballon of hot air that is your credablity, whether or not You believe it is a medical condition is irrelevant.


----------



## Samson

Katzndogz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that with the drug, it only works if the child IS ADHD.  That's why the blind study.  So the teachers nor the parents or even the doctor know if they are getting the drug that week or the placebo.  After the test, they determine which week they did best, if it matches up with the drug then they are ADHD.  Some people try the test again to be sure, I have no problems with that.  My son couldn't sit still for 5 minutes without the drug when he was in 1st grade.  I took him off it in 3rd grade due to side effects.  There are other things to do to help, like behavioral modification and making sure they get plenty of exercise during recess, etc.  My son's school didn't know and didn't suspect anything when I took him off the drug but boy were they made when a year and a 1/2 later they found out he was no longer on the drug.  I was a pariah as far as they were concerned.  And suddenly my son started having behavior problems again, problems he didn't have when they thought he was on the drug.  I ended up removing him from that school and homeschooling him for a few years.
> 
> BTW, when my son was in 7th grade, I took him to a private psychiatrist and he was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.  Something I suspected back when he was in 2nd grade but of course, because I suggested it, he couldn't possibly have it.  Oh, and hyperactivity, he still had that.  So did my other Autistic son.  For him, we paid a lot of money for a drug patch to keep him from being so hyper because it wasn't designed for that reason and the insurance company refused to pay for it even with a letter from his pediatric neurologist.
> 
> So we know Hyperactivity exists.  Is it just the ADD part of it you believe is made up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms in a school setting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Normalcy is a mental disorder.  Especially in boys.   Boys are not independent.  They are actually dysfunctional girls and must be medicated to act more like girls.
> 
> Your experience is quite common.  The ones who need to be drugged are often the most imaginative and creative.   They are the hardest workers.  But then being a "workaholic" is also a mental disorder that must be drugged out.    Children that like to run or climb are hyperactive.   Those that use creative ways of problem solving have ADD.
> 
> If you are a workaholic who likes to work.  Never fear.  There are drugs that can make you as lazy as the next guy.
> 
> The TRUTH About Workaholics | CareerCast.com
Click to expand...


This is certainly true in MANY diagnosis of ADHD, but it does not mean ADHD does not exist.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said it yourself, it was a problem in school.  He's adjusted and he's living with it in the real world, that doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.  He's turned it into a gift but few people can get jobs if they can't get an education and they can't get an education if they can't sit still enough to learn.
> 
> Guess what? Savant-ism is a neurological disorder too.  Do you know what that is?  It's what gives certain people talents like photographic memories, etc.  The fact that it's a good thing doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.
> 
> Interesting that you've gone from arguing that it doesn't exist to claiming it's not a disorder.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For something that _does not exists as a medical condition_ it certainly has the attention of the CDC.
> 
> As you have no credentials to know anymore about the subject than the ballon of hot air that is your credablity, whether or not You believe it is a medical condition is irrelevant.
Click to expand...



and 40 years a go they  all knowingly drove ice picks in peoples brains ,listed homosexuality as a neurological disorder and appeal to authority types like yourself chimed very much the same responses to he critics as you do now


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For something that _does not exists as a medical condition_ it certainly has the attention of the CDC.
> 
> As you have no credentials to know anymore about the subject than the ballon of hot air that is your credablity, whether or not You believe it is a medical condition is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> and 40 years a go they  all knowingly drove ice picks in peoples brains ,listed homosexuality as a neurological disorder and appeal to authority types like yourself chimed very much the same responses to he critics as you do now
Click to expand...


Scarecrow much?

Try to focus on the subject......interesting this seems to be your issue in a thread about ADHD.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> For something that _does not exists as a medical condition_ it certainly has the attention of the CDC.
> 
> As you have no credentials to know anymore about the subject than the ballon of hot air that is your credablity, whether or not You believe it is a medical condition is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and 40 years a go they  all knowingly drove ice picks in peoples brains ,listed homosexuality as a neurological disorder and appeal to authority types like yourself chimed very much the same responses to he critics as you do now
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Scarecrow much?
> 
> Try to focus on the subject......interesting this seems to be your issue in a thread about ADHD.
Click to expand...


you where the one that invoked the value of psychatic crendenitials I am just putting that in prespective with some simple facts..something you clearly have difficulty with


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> and 40 years a go they  all knowingly drove ice picks in peoples brains ,listed homosexuality as a neurological disorder and appeal to authority types like yourself chimed very much the same responses to he critics as you do now
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHKHZ9Q5Wf0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scarecrow much?
> 
> Try to focus on the subject......interesting this seems to be your issue in a thread about ADHD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you where the one that invoked the value of psychatic crendenitials I am just putting that in prespective with some simple facts..something you clearly have difficulty with
Click to expand...


Ok,


 I agree with your "psychatic credentials"


----------



## Si modo

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scarecrow much?
> 
> Try to focus on the subject......interesting this seems to be your issue in a thread about ADHD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you where the one that invoked the value of psychatic crendenitials I am just putting that in prespective with some simple facts..something you clearly have difficulty with
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok,
> 
> 
> I agree with your "psychatic credentials"
Click to expand...

ADHD Is Over-Diagnosed, Experts Say

Mar. 30, 2012  What experts and the public have already long suspected is now supported by representative data collected by researchers at Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) and University of Basel: ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is over-diagnosed. The study showed that child and adolescent psychotherapists and psychiatrists tend to give a diagnosis based on heuristics, unclear rules of thumb, rather than adhering to recognized diagnostic criteria. Boys in particular are substantially more often misdiagnosed compared to girls.

....​
Science Daily


----------



## Dante

The fact that this thread has gone on this long has me rethinking my opinion of ADHD

who can deny the evidence right before our very own eyes?


----------



## Samson

Si modo said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> you where the one that invoked the value of psychatic crendenitials I am just putting that in prespective with some simple facts..something you clearly have difficulty with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok,
> 
> 
> I agree with your "psychatic credentials"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ADHD Is Over-Diagnosed, Experts Say
> 
> Mar. 30, 2012 &#8212; What experts and the public have already long suspected is now supported by representative data collected by researchers at Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) and University of Basel: ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is over-diagnosed. The study showed that child and adolescent psychotherapists and psychiatrists tend to give a diagnosis based on heuristics, unclear rules of thumb, rather than adhering to recognized diagnostic criteria. Boys in particular are substantially more often misdiagnosed compared to girls.
> 
> ....​
> Science Daily
Click to expand...


No one ever disputed that it was over diagnosed.

What was in dispute was the moronic position that it simply did not exist.



eots said:


> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions


----------



## Si modo

Samson said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok,
> 
> 
> I agree with your "psychatic credentials"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADHD Is Over-Diagnosed, Experts Say
> 
> Mar. 30, 2012  What experts and the public have already long suspected is now supported by representative data collected by researchers at Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) and University of Basel: ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is over-diagnosed. The study showed that child and adolescent psychotherapists and psychiatrists tend to give a diagnosis based on heuristics, unclear rules of thumb, rather than adhering to recognized diagnostic criteria. Boys in particular are substantially more often misdiagnosed compared to girls.
> 
> ....​
> Science Daily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one ever disputed that it was over diagnosed.
> 
> What was in dispute was the moronic position that it simply did not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

K.  Gotcha.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Scarecrow much?
> 
> Try to focus on the subject......interesting this seems to be your issue in a thread about ADHD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you where the one that invoked the value of psychatic crendenitials I am just putting that in prespective with some simple facts..something you clearly have difficulty with
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok,
> 
> 
> I agree with your "psychatic credentials"
Click to expand...


a typo well you won that debate...not...


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok,
> 
> 
> I agree with your "psychatic credentials"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADHD Is Over-Diagnosed, Experts Say
> 
> Mar. 30, 2012  What experts and the public have already long suspected is now supported by representative data collected by researchers at Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) and University of Basel: ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is over-diagnosed. The study showed that child and adolescent psychotherapists and psychiatrists tend to give a diagnosis based on heuristics, unclear rules of thumb, rather than adhering to recognized diagnostic criteria. Boys in particular are substantially more often misdiagnosed compared to girls.
> 
> ....​
> Science Daily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one ever disputed that it was over diagnosed.
> 
> What was in dispute was the moronic position that it simply did not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


there is zero evidence that ADHA  exists..not a shred of evidence it is a neurological disorder and you have not provided anything that proves otherwise


----------



## eots

*The National Institute of Health held a Conference on ADD/ADHD. At the end of this conference they issued this statement:*

&#8220;We do not have an independent, valid test for ADD/ADHD and there are *no data to indicate that ADD/ADHD is due to a brain malfunction.&#8221;
*
That was in 1998. In 2008 the situation is unchanged.* No objectively verifiable diagnosis for ADHD exists,* and there is still* no proof whatsoever that ADHD is caused by a brain malfunction.* What is presented as proof of a brain malfunction is a philosophical malfunction. Nobody can state that there is a &#8220;chemical imbalance in the brain&#8221; if there is no standard &#8220;chemical balance.&#8221;

ADD & ADHD Diagnosis | Why Doctors Second Opinion is Needed


----------



## Barb

Si modo said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> Here's what I would do...that's all I'm saying, and I could be totally wrong if I were to do it.  Knowing that teachers LOVE chemically restraining children who cause them more work than they would prefer, the LAST thing I would do is take your cutie to the MD they recommend.
> 
> Talk to your boy's pediatrician for a reference for an examination, if you have good confidence in your pediatrician.  If not, do some research on line, talk to trusted friends and neighbors, etc.
> 
> But, no; I would not take him to the 'specialist" the school recommends...last thing I would do.
Click to expand...


I agree with Si completely. 

ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).   

And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



If I was you I'd be pretty damn sure before I started down the road of medication. You know your son, trust your own instincts would be the right path no matter what the so-called professionals and educators say. Just don't allow them to make you feel guilty when in your heart you believe otherwise, be strong for your son..

Somehow, I believe you were a bit of a precocious, distracted and maybe a bit of a troublemaker as a kid..if so..that is the person you were meant to be..Good Luck..


----------



## eots

Barb said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> Here's what I would do...that's all I'm saying, and I could be totally wrong if I were to do it.  Knowing that teachers LOVE chemically restraining children who cause them more work than they would prefer, the LAST thing I would do is take your cutie to the MD they recommend.
> 
> Talk to your boy's pediatrician for a reference for an examination, if you have good confidence in your pediatrician.  If not, do some research on line, talk to trusted friends and neighbors, etc.
> 
> But, no; I would not take him to the 'specialist" the school recommends...last thing I would do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
Click to expand...


and on what do you base your belief that a brain disorder called ADHD exists??


----------



## Barb

eots said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> Here's what I would do...that's all I'm saying, and I could be totally wrong if I were to do it.  Knowing that teachers LOVE chemically restraining children who cause them more work than they would prefer, the LAST thing I would do is take your cutie to the MD they recommend.
> 
> Talk to your boy's pediatrician for a reference for an examination, if you have good confidence in your pediatrician.  If not, do some research on line, talk to trusted friends and neighbors, etc.
> 
> But, no; I would not take him to the 'specialist" the school recommends...last thing I would do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and on what do you base your belief that a brain disorder called ADHD exists??
Click to expand...


Experience. I'm not sure I'd call it a brain disorder rather than neurological damage that produces various symptoms and troubles, sometimes the mix of behaviors add up to a clinical diagnoses of ADHD, other times it's oppositional-defiant disorder, and in extreme cases it can be autism. In my son's case: speech delay, difficulty focusing, and an almost complete inability to apply the brakes on his behavior when he was young, but my older brother was one of the first cases treated with ritalin (I don't like that stuff), and my son developed problems after a triple dose of vaccines (and I'm not getting into the whole argument over thimerserol (sp?) again, I saw what I saw and it is what it is). I told the teachers who wanted him drugged to piss off, gave him coffee every morning, and he was fine. He graduated with a regents diploma from HS, and he's making more money than me at this point.


----------



## eots

Barb said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and on what do you base your belief that a brain disorder called ADHD exists??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Experience. I'm not sure I'd call it a brain disorder rather than* neurological damage* that produces various symptoms and troubles, sometimes the mix of behaviors add up to a clinical diagnoses of ADHD, other times it's oppositional-defiant disorder, and in extreme cases it can be autism. In my son's case: speech delay, difficulty focusing, and an almost complete inability to apply the brakes on his behavior when he was young, but my older brother was one of the first cases treated with ritalin (I don't like that stuff), and my son developed problems after a triple dose of vaccines (and I'm not getting into the whole argument over thimerserol (sp?) again, I saw what I saw and it is what it is). I told the teachers who wanted him drugged to piss off, gave him coffee every morning, and he was fine. He graduated with a regents diploma from HS, and he's making more money than me at this point.
Click to expand...


if it was due to brain damage why is there zero evidence of brain damage ?


----------



## Barb

eots said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> and on what do you base your belief that a brain disorder called ADHD exists??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Experience. I'm not sure I'd call it a brain disorder rather than* neurological damage* that produces various symptoms and troubles, sometimes the mix of behaviors add up to a clinical diagnoses of ADHD, other times it's oppositional-defiant disorder, and in extreme cases it can be autism. In my son's case: speech delay, difficulty focusing, and an almost complete inability to apply the brakes on his behavior when he was young, but my older brother was one of the first cases treated with ritalin (I don't like that stuff), and my son developed problems after a triple dose of vaccines (and I'm not getting into the whole argument over thimerserol (sp?) again, I saw what I saw and it is what it is). I told the teachers who wanted him drugged to piss off, gave him coffee every morning, and he was fine. He graduated with a regents diploma from HS, and he's making more money than me at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if it was due to brain damage why is there zero evidence of brain damage ?
Click to expand...


I don't pretend to be a doctor, Eots, I only know what I've experienced in this area and what I've looked up because of it. 

Why so doggedly confrontational about it though?


----------



## Lumpy 1

Barb said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and on what do you base your belief that a brain disorder called ADHD exists??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Experience. I'm not sure I'd call it a brain disorder rather than neurological damage that produces various symptoms and troubles, sometimes the mix of behaviors add up to a clinical diagnoses of ADHD, other times it's oppositional-defiant disorder, and in extreme cases it can be autism. In my son's case: speech delay, difficulty focusing, and an almost complete inability to apply the brakes on his behavior when he was young, but my older brother was one of the first cases treated with ritalin (I don't like that stuff), and my son developed problems after a triple dose of vaccines (and I'm not getting into the whole argument over thimerserol (sp?) again, I saw what I saw and it is what it is). I told the teachers who wanted him drugged to piss off, gave him coffee every morning, and he was fine. He graduated with a regents diploma from HS, and he's making more money than me at this point.
Click to expand...


Yup.. that's my kinda Mom


----------



## eots

Barb said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Experience. I'm not sure I'd call it a brain disorder rather than* neurological damage* that produces various symptoms and troubles, sometimes the mix of behaviors add up to a clinical diagnoses of ADHD, other times it's oppositional-defiant disorder, and in extreme cases it can be autism. In my son's case: speech delay, difficulty focusing, and an almost complete inability to apply the brakes on his behavior when he was young, but my older brother was one of the first cases treated with ritalin (I don't like that stuff), and my son developed problems after a triple dose of vaccines (and I'm not getting into the whole argument over thimerserol (sp?) again, I saw what I saw and it is what it is). I told the teachers who wanted him drugged to piss off, gave him coffee every morning, and he was fine. He graduated with a regents diploma from HS, and he's making more money than me at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if it was due to brain damage why is there zero evidence of brain damage ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't pretend to be a doctor, Eots, I only know what I've experienced in this area and what I've looked up because of it.
> 
> Why so doggedly confrontational about it though?
Click to expand...


It is not sound reasoning to take a group of subjective behaviors then draw the conclusion it is the result of illness and it is very dangerous..children are being drugged in record numbers and those numbers are constantly growing..all based on a fraud not supported by evidence


----------



## Luissa

Lumpy 1 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I was you I'd be pretty damn sure before I started down the road of medication. You know your son, trust your own instincts would be the right path no matter what the so-called professionals and educators say. Just don't allow them to make you feel guilty when in your heart you believe otherwise, be strong for your son..
> 
> Somehow, I believe you were a bit of a precocious, distracted and maybe a bit of a troublemaker as a kid..if so..that is the person you were meant to be..Good Luck..
Click to expand...


I actually wasn't much of a trouble maker, that didn't happen until later.


----------



## eots




----------



## Barb

eots said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> if it was due to brain damage why is there zero evidence of brain damage ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't pretend to be a doctor, Eots, I only know what I've experienced in this area and what I've looked up because of it.
> 
> Why so doggedly confrontational about it though?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is not sound reasoning to take a group of subjective behaviors then draw the conclusion it is the result of illness and it is very dangerous..children are being drugged in record numbers and those numbers are constantly growing..all based on a fraud not supported by evidence
Click to expand...


So, there are no such things as personality disorders of any kind that respond to medication? Don't get me wrong, I am against the widespread drugging of schoolchildren, and I also believe that a lot of natural rambunctiousness is misdiagnosed. I simply reject that there is "no such thing." We agree more than we disagree. I have to get some work done, so I'm leaving it at that for tonight.


----------



## eots

Barb said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't pretend to be a doctor, Eots, I only know what I've experienced in this area and what I've looked up because of it.
> 
> Why so doggedly confrontational about it though?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not sound reasoning to take a group of subjective behaviors then draw the conclusion it is the result of illness and it is very dangerous..children are being drugged in record numbers and those numbers are constantly growing..all based on a fraud not supported by evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, there are no such things as personality disorders of any kind that respond to medication?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you keep changing your terms ..so called personality disorders are not treated with drugs and personality disorders are just personality traits how we subjectively judge these traits is what decides if its disorder or not
> 
> behavior can be modified through drugs this is not proof of illness
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am against the widespread drugging of schoolchildren, and I also believe that a lot of natural rambunctiousness is misdiagnosed. I simply reject that there is "no such thing." We agree more than we disagree. I have to get some work done, so I'm leaving it at that for tonight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Medications
> 
> There are no medications specifically approved by the Food and Drug Administration to treat personality disorders.
> 
> Psychotherapy
> 
> Psychotherapy is the main way to treat personality disorders. Psychotherapy is a general term for the process of treating personality disorders by talking about your condition and related issues with a mental health provider. During psychotherapy, you learn about your condition and your mood, feelings, thoughts and behavior. Using the insight and knowledge you gain in psychotherapy, you can learn healthy ways to manage your symptoms.
> Personality disorders: Treatments and drug - MayoClinic.com
Click to expand...


----------



## Si modo

Barb said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> Here's what I would do...that's all I'm saying, and I could be totally wrong if I were to do it.  Knowing that teachers LOVE chemically restraining children who cause them more work than they would prefer, the LAST thing I would do is take your cutie to the MD they recommend.
> 
> Talk to your boy's pediatrician for a reference for an examination, if you have good confidence in your pediatrician.  If not, do some research on line, talk to trusted friends and neighbors, etc.
> 
> But, no; I would not take him to the 'specialist" the school recommends...last thing I would do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
Click to expand...

  I'm sorry I stunned you by your agreeing with me.    (I've run out of rep, too...dammit)

Anyway, thanks for bringing up another excellent point.  Once the school is involved in this diagnosis, if at a later date, you find a great MD who has other ideas for treatment that does not include medication (a medication that has street value as a drug, too), you WILL need to go to court to have the school stop medicating him.  That will not be cheap, because of court and atty costs, obviously, but also you will need to pay through your teeth for expert witnesses.


----------



## Barb

> you keep changing your terms .



Not really, you brought up "subjective behaviors,"  and I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative. We'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## Mr. H.

Love conquers all. 

Ms. L. conquers my heart.


----------



## eots

Barb said:


> you keep changing your terms .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, you brought up "subjective behaviors,"  and I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...


I can not  really agree to disagree on hard facts...I can however allow you to be incorrect


----------



## Barb

eots said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you keep changing your terms .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, you brought up "subjective behaviors,"  and I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative. We'll have to agree to disagree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can not  really agree to disagree on hard facts...I can however allow you to be incorrect
Click to expand...


Whatever floats your boat, Eots.


----------



## thanatos144

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



Be very careful.....there is a reason mostly boys are on these drugs. It should be called chemical babysitter cause what it does is make you feel slow and zombie like....How do I know this? Cause some 30 years ago I had to take these drugs cause the teachers couldnt handle boys. Attention deficit disorder just mean the teacher doesn't have the attention to to give the student and the deficit causes her class to be in disorder.....

Self control. This is something the boy needs to learn. Most definitely before you put him on amphetamines that are damn dangerous to his heart. These drugs are not aspirin even if the teachers use them as such. They are controlled substances....They are illegal to posses without a prescription and now ask yourself do you really want your son to take that twice a day every day?


----------



## thanatos144

Si modo said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry.
> 
> Here's what I would do...that's all I'm saying, and I could be totally wrong if I were to do it.  Knowing that teachers LOVE chemically restraining children who cause them more work than they would prefer, the LAST thing I would do is take your cutie to the MD they recommend.
> 
> Talk to your boy's pediatrician for a reference for an examination, if you have good confidence in your pediatrician.  If not, do some research on line, talk to trusted friends and neighbors, etc.
> 
> But, no; I would not take him to the 'specialist" the school recommends...last thing I would do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm sorry I stunned you by your agreeing with me.    (I've run out of rep, too...dammit)
> 
> Anyway, thanks for bringing up another excellent point.  Once the school is involved in this diagnosis, if at a later date, you find a great MD who has other ideas for treatment that does not include medication (a medication that has street value as a drug, too), you WILL need to go to court to have the school stop medicating him.  That will not be cheap, because of court and atty costs, obviously, but also you will need to pay through your teeth for expert witnesses.
Click to expand...


schools dont just let you take your child off of these drugs....They will suspend the child first saying they cant have disruptions they know will happen in class. Unless you have been there you dont know shit.


----------



## Samson

thanatos144 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be very careful.....there is a reason mostly boys are on these drugs. It should be called chemical babysitter cause what it does is make you feel slow and zombie like....How do I know this? Cause some 30 years ago I had to take these drugs cause the teachers couldnt handle boys. Attention deficit disorder just mean the teacher doesn't have the attention to to give the student and the deficit causes her class to be in disorder.....
> 
> Self control. This is something the boy needs to learn. Most definitely before you put him on amphetamines that are damn dangerous to his heart. These drugs are not aspirin even if the teachers use them as such. They are controlled substances....They are illegal to posses without a prescription and now ask yourself do you really want your son to take that twice a day every day?
Click to expand...


Very well stated;

While the ends (self control) might not justify the means (perscriptions), what other means are available?

Teachers are dealing with larger class sizes, and a wide variety of social issues (ESL, Special Education, etc.) than they had 30 years ago.

Single parent homes are more common than 30 years ago.

Electronic "Social Media" that requires not physical participation, much less exertion, is much more common than 30 years ago.


----------



## Samson

thanatos144 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry I stunned you by your agreeing with me.    (I've run out of rep, too...dammit)
> 
> Anyway, thanks for bringing up another excellent point.  Once the school is involved in this diagnosis, if at a later date, you find a great MD who has other ideas for treatment that does not include medication (a medication that has street value as a drug, too), you WILL need to go to court to have the school stop medicating him.  That will not be cheap, because of court and atty costs, obviously, but also you will need to pay through your teeth for expert witnesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> schools dont just let you take your child off of these drugs....They will suspend the child first saying they cant have disruptions they know will happen in class. Unless you have been there you dont know shit.
Click to expand...


Well, I'm not sure you know shit.

Without documentation (and a hell of a lot of it) schools cannot suspend a student for "disruptions." Obviously for Violent behavior, bringing weapons or illegal drugs to school, the documentation can be dramatically streamlined.

You cannot document what, "will happen in class;" therefore they cannot keep any child on perscription medication based on what may or may not happen without the child on medication.


----------



## thanatos144

Samson said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be very careful.....there is a reason mostly boys are on these drugs. It should be called chemical babysitter cause what it does is make you feel slow and zombie like....How do I know this? Cause some 30 years ago I had to take these drugs cause the teachers couldnt handle boys. Attention deficit disorder just mean the teacher doesn't have the attention to to give the student and the deficit causes her class to be in disorder.....
> 
> Self control. This is something the boy needs to learn. Most definitely before you put him on amphetamines that are damn dangerous to his heart. These drugs are not aspirin even if the teachers use them as such. They are controlled substances....They are illegal to posses without a prescription and now ask yourself do you really want your son to take that twice a day every day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very well stated;
> 
> While the ends (self control) might not justify the means (perscriptions), what other means are available?
> 
> Teachers are dealing with larger class sizes, and a wide variety of social issues (ESL, Special Education, etc.) than they had 30 years ago.
> 
> Single parent homes are more common than 30 years ago.
> 
> Electronic "Social Media" that requires not physical participation, much less exertion, is much more common than 30 years ago.
Click to expand...


self control can not be taught by a teacher it is taught at home....It takes a bit of effort but it is a damn sight better then a alternative. A child's mind is developing until the age of around 25 and pumping a shit load of amphetamines in it isn't going to help him. Not even talking about all the psychotropic bullshit we now feed our kids cause they are not as happy as we think they should be. It is tough to be a kid yes but your job as being a parent is to teach them how to be a adult. Self control is part of that. A drug cant do that and I have suspicion that they are more of a problem then a help. 

I think a study needs to be done to see how many mentally disturbed young people now were on these drugs as a young person.


----------



## thanatos144

Samson said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry I stunned you by your agreeing with me.    (I've run out of rep, too...dammit)
> 
> Anyway, thanks for bringing up another excellent point.  Once the school is involved in this diagnosis, if at a later date, you find a great MD who has other ideas for treatment that does not include medication (a medication that has street value as a drug, too), you WILL need to go to court to have the school stop medicating him.  That will not be cheap, because of court and atty costs, obviously, but also you will need to pay through your teeth for expert witnesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> schools dont just let you take your child off of these drugs....They will suspend the child first saying they cant have disruptions they know will happen in class. Unless you have been there you dont know shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I'm not sure you know shit.
> 
> Without documentation (and a hell of a lot of it) schools cannot suspend a student for "disruptions." Obviously for Violent behavior, bringing weapons or illegal drugs to school, the documentation can be dramatically streamlined.
> 
> You cannot document what, "will happen in class;" therefore they cannot keep any child on perscription medication based on what may or may not happen without the child on medication.
Click to expand...

They dont have to let the student back ether. Sure sounds like suspension to me....Sure sounded like it when they wouldnt let my nephew back in once his mother took him off the drugs as well.....Sure sounded like that when they wouldn't let my close friends son back in for the same thing the difference there is the my friend caved and her son died of a heart attack at 14.


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfU9puZQKBY]TeenScreen - Controversial and Unscientific - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XHNJyti1gE]Antidepressants and School Shootings, Suicide, Addiction. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Si modo

thanatos144 said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Si completely.
> 
> ADHD does exist, but there are better methods of dealing with it besides drugging our kids into zombies, and his family pediatrician might be your best defense against over-medication, with the attendant family court drama of (having the audacity to decide you don't like the results after the fact) trying to take him off the medication once it's prescribed, getting an accurate diagnosis of his issues, a realistic and least intrusive treatment plan, and an idea of when they might subside (sometimes they do).
> 
> And don't let them keep him in special classes longer than he needs to be. These kids are most often highly intelligent, and they get bored as hell (and pretty annoyed) without any mental challenges all day.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry I stunned you by your agreeing with me.    (I've run out of rep, too...dammit)
> 
> Anyway, thanks for bringing up another excellent point.  Once the school is involved in this diagnosis, if at a later date, you find a great MD who has other ideas for treatment that does not include medication (a medication that has street value as a drug, too), you WILL need to go to court to have the school stop medicating him.  That will not be cheap, because of court and atty costs, obviously, but also you will need to pay through your teeth for expert witnesses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> schools dont just let you take your child off of these drugs....They will suspend the child first saying they cant have disruptions they know will happen in class. Unless you have been there you dont know shit.
Click to expand...

I make no claims to being there and yes, I do know that once one's child is diagnosed and prescribed medication for this, the parent no longer has easy control over getting his/her child off that drug should they choose to have a different MD treat their child in a non-chemical manner.

As you said, one's child gets suspended.  In fact, I believe one needs a court order to reverse that suspension.  Which is what I thought I said.


----------



## Samson

thanatos144 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> schools dont just let you take your child off of these drugs....They will suspend the child first saying they cant have disruptions they know will happen in class. Unless you have been there you dont know shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'm not sure you know shit.
> 
> Without documentation (and a hell of a lot of it) schools cannot suspend a student for "disruptions." Obviously for Violent behavior, bringing weapons or illegal drugs to school, the documentation can be dramatically streamlined.
> 
> You cannot document what, "will happen in class;" therefore they cannot keep any child on perscription medication based on what may or may not happen without the child on medication.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They dont have to let the student back ether. Sure sounds like suspension to me....Sure sounded like it when they wouldnt let my nephew back in once his mother took him off the drugs as well.....Sure sounded like that when they wouldn't let my close friends son back in for the same thing the difference there is the my friend caved and her son died of a heart attack at 14.
Click to expand...


You know the difference between expulsion and suspension?

Expulsion is when you do not come back.

Sure sounds like you're not seeing, or more probably, incapable of seeing, the whole picture:  a student cannot be expelled ONLY because a they have been taken off medication.


----------



## eots

THE CHILD MEDICATION SAFETY ACT: 
SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR THE PARENTS OF 
CHILDREN WITH ADHD? 
I. INTRODUCTION
Casey is a seven year-old with  Attention Deficit Hyperactivity 
Disorder (ADHD). For the past year, he has taken Ritalin
 to curb his hyperactivity at school and help him function in a mainstream classroom.
However, the Ritalin has also subjected Casey to negative side effects, and 
his reading scores have become so low that they are off the charts.
 For these reasons, Casey&#8217;s parents have decided to stop giving him Ritalin.
 In an attempt to effectively treat his ADHD, Casey underwent a series of 
tests and examinations at the hospital. The hospital&#8217;s recommendations 
were taken into consideration when Casey&#8217;s school developed an Individualized Educational Program (IEP) for him.Because the hospital 
recommended drug therapy, the IEP included a provision that Casey 
should be placed on Ritalin, with parental consent. Yet because of 
Casey&#8217;s past experiences with Ritalin, his parents refused to consent IEP.
 Soon after, the school suspended Casey, saying it had &#8220;no choice&#8221;: 
he was simply too difficult to control.


http://digitalcommons.law.wustl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1261&context=lawreview


----------



## Samson

> this Note proposes that legislation such as the CMSA is unnecessary because it has the potential to allow parents of* children with ADHD *to subvert IDEAs traditional avenues of administrative redress available to parents wishing to challenge
> IEPs.




http://digitalcommons.law.wustl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1261&context=lawreview[/QUOTE]


----------



## gxnelson

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



I would suggest taking him to see someone, doesn't have to be a specialist or anything, but just to make absolute sure I would, if you have the funds that is. 

Second, it is actually really hard to get a diagnosis for ADHD, there are certain requirements one has to have in order to be officially diagnosed. Every psychologist has to go through a check list of symptoms outlined by the APA. You can find these in the Diagnostics and Statistical Manual (DSM). The latest edition currently out is 4, although edition 5 isn't far behind. So look through it and see if your son meets the requirements. 

There are three types of ADHD: Hyperactivity, Inattentive (also known as ADD), and combined. Most people who are diagnosed with ADHD fall in the combined type, mostly males has hyperactivity type and mostly females have inattentive type. 

I would like to restate to all of those people who think ADHD is over diagnosed that the assumption is false. It is difficult to get a REAL diagnosis. I wasn't diagnosed until 4 months ago, and I can sure tell you that it wasn't the first mental disorder I jumped to when I realized something was impeding my studies.


----------



## High_Gravity

Mad Scientist said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a new name for hyperactivity. It's one of those renamed things like senility and Alzheimer's. My nephew has it it, and I think he's taking Prozac.
> 
> 
> 
> The worst thing you can do to a kid is medcate him. My Sister did that to her oldest son and he ended up going to Prison.
> 
> Don't f*ckin' medicate your kids *no matter what*! You *know* it's not good for them!
Click to expand...


Well that depends my dude, my younger brother was diagnosed with ADHD and my parents didn;t medicate him, he still ended up in prison.


----------



## eots

gxnelson said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would suggest taking him to see someone, doesn't have to be a specialist or anything, but just to make absolute sure I would, if you have the funds that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second, it is actually really hard to get a diagnosis for ADHD, there are certain requirements one has to have in order to be officially diagnosed. Every psychologist has to go through a check list of symptoms outlined by the APA. You can find these in the Diagnostics and Statistical Manual (DSM). The latest edition currently out is 4, although edition 5 isn't far behind. So look through it and see if your son meets the requirements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> its a silly little check list of subjective behaviorism and the former chairman of the dsm 4  dr. allen frances came out saying he feels he has created false epidemics with aspbergers and ADHD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here are three types of ADHD: Hyperactivity, Inattentive (also known as ADD), and combined. Most people who are diagnosed with ADHD fall in the combined type, mostly males has hyperactivity type and mostly females have inattentive type. I would like to restate to all of those people who think ADHD is over diagnosed that the assumption is false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it is all but a rubber stamp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is difficult to get a REAL diagnosis. I wasn't diagnosed until 4 months ago, and I can sure tell you that it wasn't the first mental disorder I jumped to when I realized something was impeding my studies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> adult ADHDis even a bigger myth and may be harder to get a diagnosis because many student like to do methamphetamine and there is big black market potential
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

Dr Frances comments can&#8217;t be dismissed as the architect of the old edition protecting his work from revision. While criticising the proposals in DSM5, Dr Frances has identified that the DSMIV process* he lead inadvertently helped &#8216;trigger three false epidemics. One for Autistic Disorder&#8230; another for the childhood diagnosis of Bi-Polar Disorder and the third for the wild over-diagnosis of Attention Deficit Disorder.&#8217;*1 Of course Dr Frances was not solely responsible for the development of the DSMIV diagnostic criteria for ADHD or for other disorders. They were developed by sub-committees of the American Psychiatric Association. However, as the overall leader of the DSMIV development process he has accepted his share of responsibility for the problems DSMIV helped create.
Dr Allen Frances, the lead author of DSMIV, and the British Psychological Association, lead the chorus of opposition to disease mongering proposals in DSM5 | Speed Up & Sit Still


----------



## gxnelson

eots said:


> adult ADHDis even a bigger myth and may be harder to get a diagnosis because many student like to do methamphetamine ad there is big black market potential



Right... because being unable to do my job, even though it's the only thing I really want to do is purely because I want to use drugs... I'm not on medication. I don't want to have ADHD, I didn't think I had it. But I do. It's not harder to get a diagnosis as an adult because students like to use the drugs as study aids or what not, it's harder to diagnos because it's hard to prove. ADHD is often mislabeled as depression or learning disability.


----------



## eots

gxnelson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> adult ADHDis even a bigger myth and may be harder to get a diagnosis because many student like to do methamphetamine ad there is big black market potential
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right... because being unable to do my job, even though it's the only thing I really want to do is purely because I want to use drugs... I'm not on medication. I don't want to have ADHD, I didn't think I had it. But I do. It's not harder to get a diagnosis as an adult because students like to use the drugs as study aids or what not, it's harder to diagnos because it's hard to prove. ADHD is often mislabeled as depression or learning disability.
Click to expand...


there is zero evidence of a brain disorder called ADHD .there is evidence however methamphetamine can in the short term be a performance enhancing drug


----------



## eots




----------



## gxnelson

eots said:


> gxnelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> adult ADHDis even a bigger myth and may be harder to get a diagnosis because many student like to do methamphetamine ad there is big black market potential
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right... because being unable to do my job, even though it's the only thing I really want to do is purely because I want to use drugs... I'm not on medication. I don't want to have ADHD, I didn't think I had it. But I do. It's not harder to get a diagnosis as an adult because students like to use the drugs as study aids or what not, it's harder to diagnos because it's hard to prove. ADHD is often mislabeled as depression or learning disability.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is zero evidence of a brain disorder called ADHD .there is evidence however methamphetamine can in the short term be a performance enhancing drug
Click to expand...


No shit sherlock, teenagers abuse drugs. How would you like to explain my experiences then? Am I just crazy then?


----------



## eots

gxnelson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gxnelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> right... Because being unable to do my job, even though it's the only thing i really want to do is purely because i want to use drugs... I'm not on medication. I don't want to have adhd, i didn't think i had it. But i do. It's not harder to get a diagnosis as an adult because students like to use the drugs as study aids or what not, it's harder to diagnos because it's hard to prove. Adhd is often mislabeled as depression or learning disability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is zero evidence of a brain disorder called adhd .there is evidence however methamphetamine can in the short term be a performance enhancing drug
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no shit sherlock, teenagers abuse drugs. How would you like to explain my experiences then? Am i just crazy then?
Click to expand...


I have no idea idea what your experiences are but they most definitly are not evidence of an organic brain disorder


----------



## gxnelson

eots said:


> gxnelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is zero evidence of a brain disorder called adhd .there is evidence however methamphetamine can in the short term be a performance enhancing drug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no shit sherlock, teenagers abuse drugs. How would you like to explain my experiences then? Am i just crazy then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have no idea idea what your experiences are but they most definitly are not evidence of an organic brain disorder
Click to expand...


Enjoy your willful ignorance. I've got better things to do with my time than waste it on you.


----------



## eots

gxnelson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gxnelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> no shit sherlock, teenagers abuse drugs. How would you like to explain my experiences then? Am i just crazy then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea idea what your experiences are but they most definitly are not evidence of an organic brain disorder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Enjoy your willful ignorance. I've got better things to do with my time than waste it on you.
Click to expand...


the willful ignorance is all yours..I have backed my claims with actual evidence as opposed to your anecdotal stories


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> There is no such thing as ADHD



^ id-eot has burped.

He is, of course, just flatly wrong.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as ADHD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ id-eot has burped.
> 
> He is, of course, just flatly wrong.
Click to expand...


you say I am flatly wrong but provide no evidence to the contrary and never will because there is zero evidence to support ADHD  is a real medical conditon


----------



## eots

As scientific as the name may sound &#8216;Attention Deficit Disorder&#8217; and &#8216;Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder&#8217; (AD/HD) are alleged and somewhat mysterious &#8216;diseases&#8217; of which, despite numerous studies dedicated to investigating their cause, no convincing evidence of any brain malfunction or other biological or genetic abnormality has been discovered.

Weird Science!?: Investigating Attention Deficit Disorder « The Bitter Pill


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as ADHD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ id-eot has burped.
> 
> He is, of course, just flatly wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you say I am flatly wrong but provide no evidence to the contrary and never will because there is zero evidence to support ADHD  is a real medical conditon
Click to expand...



This ^ is why they call the conspiracy asshole id-eots.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ id-eot has burped.
> 
> He is, of course, just flatly wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you say I am flatly wrong but provide no evidence to the contrary and never will because there is zero evidence to support ADHD  is a real medical conditon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This ^ is why they call the conspiracy asshole id-eots.
Click to expand...


these are the facts and you provide nothing to the contrary.there is not a single medical test for ADHD..there is zero evidence of any brain abnormality and you can not debate these facts with strawmen and cheesy one -liners and that is all you have


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> you say I am flatly wrong but provide no evidence to the contrary and never will because there is zero evidence to support ADHD  is a real medical conditon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This ^ is why they call the conspiracy asshole id-eots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> these are the facts and you provide nothing to the contrary.there is not a single medical test for ADHD..there is zero evidence of any brain abnormality and you can not debate these facts with strawmen and cheesy one -liners and that is all you have
Click to expand...


^ id-eots.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> This ^ is why they call the conspiracy asshole id-eots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these are the facts and you provide nothing to the contrary.there is not a single medical test for ADHD..there is zero evidence of any brain abnormality and you can not debate these facts with strawmen and cheesy one -liners and that is all you have
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ id-eots.
Click to expand...


how pathetic of you..you are clearly completely incapable of looking at  actual evidence


----------



## percysunshine

It is obvious that the majority of the medical community agrees ...that......what were we talking about again?


----------



## Abel

This is what proffesionals are for, and if you dont have a degree in pycholgy, then I suggest you shut you mouth Mr. Eots. 
Has anyone actully shared a story yet?


----------



## percysunshine

Abel said:


> This is what proffesionals are for, and if you dont have a degree in pycholgy, then I suggest you shut you mouth Mr. Eots.
> Has anyone actully shared a story yet?



I have a story.

...but I forgot it....

Alzheimers is my only excuse.


----------



## Abel

That is a story. You had a story but then got distracted and forgot it. ADHD


----------



## Delia




----------



## eots

Abel said:


> This is what proffesionals are for, and if you dont have a degree in pycholgy, then I suggest you shut you mouth Mr. Eots.
> Has anyone actully shared a story yet?



psychology does not deal with ADHD  that is psychiatry..do you even know the difference ?? and I have quoted many professionals including the chairman of the DSM..your simple minded appeal to authority speaks volumes..this same group of professionals drove ice picks in peoples brains to cure depression not long ago...to what drones such as yourself said those without degrees should shut up..so unless you have real evidence to the contrary you should shut the fuck up


----------



## percysunshine

What is hycology...is this debate about plants?


----------



## eots

percysunshine said:


> What is hycology...is this debate about plants?



wtf ?


----------



## eots

*
lets listen to the experts*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZXH7MOwjI&playnext=1&list=PL902F14D214171AEB&feature=results_video]The Truth about ADHD from their mouth! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Liability

id-eots zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> id-eots zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



you can not refute anything I have said so you resort to these pathetic responses


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can not refute anything I have said so you resort to these pathetic responses
Click to expand...


Nothing to refute. 

You are an id-eot.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can not refute anything I have said so you resort to these pathetic responses
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nothing to refute. *
> 
> You are an id-eot.
Click to expand...


so then you agree there is no proof of ADHD being a organic brain disorder and that there is no valid medical test for ADHD ..good because those are the facts


----------



## koshergrl

I think eots is completely insane but I tend to agree with him (cautiously) on this subject. 

I have never seen much good come of medicating children for ADHD. I think the cure is worse than the *disease*...which really isn't a disease at all, it's BEHAVIOR, genetics, environment, patterning...or a combination of them all. 

My youngest is 9 years old. He has been in cosntant motion since birth. He tends to jump up and throw himself into physical activity just at the point of sleep...as a baby he would roll in a circle for hours if we didn't stop him, physically. He would watch Pinnochio straight through from the age of 6 months. 

He jumps and bounces continually; I couldn't take him to church until he was about 7 because I couldn't effectively restrain him, and it was just too exhausting to manage him. 

He has a hitch in his getalong...people can't see it unless they're pretty darned observant but it causes him to fall and not be as fast as he might be; he wears glasses. 

He's smart, though..and he doesn't have any trouble concentrating. He likes to make really obnoxious, loud, senseless noises (waAAAAAHHHHHHHHH) over and over, he has a tendency to shout but doesn't have any hearing issues.

So he's a hyperactive kid.

My daughter is supremely hyperactive...she doesn't quit moving from the time she wakes up until she falls asleep. She doesn't have any difficulty sleeping though...but right up until the time she falls asleep, she is up and racing around doing stuff. 

I had many people suggest I have the kids tested, and many people say "oh my gosh, what is WRONG with them?"...including my MOTHER, who is a NURSE. I maintained that there's nothing wrong with THEM. They are themselves, different, and unique, and very active and inquisitive and physical...they each have different things that can be considered *faults* or *disorders*...if I chose to seek diagnosis. But those very faults and disorders can be CHANNELED into positive character traits, and that is what I have been busting my ass to do since they were born.

I've aged. I don't have time to go to the gym or date, and I don't have the energy or the desire to. All my (considerable) focus, attention and concentration is on shaping them, with all their *faults*..into successful, productive members of society...without saddling them with the stigma of a diagnosis at a young age that will seriously curtail any chance they have of being successful or productive. 

Don't get the diagnosis. Don't medicate him, unless he's having seizures (and even then, unless they're grand mal, medication isn't always the way to go). He doesn't need that shit. He needs to learn to cope with the issues he has. Tell the teachers to fuck themselves, they have no business suggesting anybody get kids treated for behavior disorders, unless they're attacking other children or cutting up cats on the playground. If they are pressuring you, pull him out of that school and get him in somewhere else. 

That's my advice, as a mother I expect you to make up your own mind and I have no personal stake in it and won't presume to second guess you if you choose a different path. But keep in mind that my advice is based on working with special needs men and youth (who have years and years of medications under their belt), and as a parent of  3 absolutely challenging children, one of which had seizure disorder. 

I know very well if I had taken my children into the doctor at the ages of 3 and 4, or even last year, I could easily have gotten a prescription from them, based on my statements and the statements of teachers/care providers etc. I chose not to, and I am thankful every single day that I didn't. They are developing into strong, bright individuals, and they are learning to cope with the issues they have...the impulse control issues (yup, we have that) and the sleep issues (yup) and the manic behavior (uh huh) and the racing thoughts (mm hmm)...

But it will age you. You're the one who is going to bear the brunt of their issues, if you choose to cope with your son's problems rather than medicate them. Because you're going to constantly be addressing various and assorted issues...giving him work arounds, staying up with him, walking him through difficulties, all that...it's going to land straight on you and you're not going to get any sleep. You'd get to sleep once in a while if you get the meds, because there will be times when he's completely doped up. And he will always know there's something wrong with him, because that medication will be there every single day, and there will always be people monitoring him, and drawing his blood, and adjusting his meds...

Make the world adjust to him, and help him to adjust as he must to the world. But don't medicate him at the behest of teachers, and for the sake of getting a little sleep.


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> you can not refute anything I have said so you resort to these pathetic responses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nothing to refute. *
> 
> You are an id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so then you agree there is no proof of ADHD being a organic brain disorder and that there is no valid medical test for ADHD ..good because those are the facts
Click to expand...


No. I agree that you are nothing but an id-eot.

There are psychological conditions for which there is no scientific "proof" such as its being susceptible to a blood test or a brain scan.  But that does not mean that a person suffering from one of the conditions described in the DSM does not have such a condition.

And there certainly are tests for ADD and ADHD.  YOUR conspiracy world daffynition of "valid" is not a substitute for anything useful in the universe, you id-eot.

The FACT is that you truly  are an id-eot.


----------



## percysunshine

eots said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is hycology...is this debate about plants?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wtf ?
Click to expand...



I have had misspellings and typos... all the time. Some of them are legendary.

I never pretended that they never happened.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nothing to refute. *
> 
> You are an id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so then you agree there is no proof of ADHD being a organic brain disorder and that there is no valid medical test for ADHD ..good because those are the facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. I agree that you are nothing but an id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are psychological conditions for which there is no scientific "proof"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the claim is not that it is psychological you uniformed nit-wit the claim is that it is a *medical condition*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> such as its being susceptible to a blood test or a brain scan.  But that does not mean that a person suffering from one of the conditions described in the DSM does not have such a condition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it means there is zero evidence that it is in fact a* medical condition *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there certainly are tests for ADD and ADHD. * YOUR conspiracy world daffynition of "valid"* is not a substitute for anything useful in the universe, you id-eot.
> 
> The FACT is that you truly  are an id-eot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a direct quote from the the American psychiatric association
> 
> *..We do not have an independent, valid test for ADHD, and there are no data to indicate that ADHD is due to a brain malfunction."*
> Does Adhd Exist? | PBS - Medicating Kids | FRONTLINE | PBS
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nothing to refute. *
> 
> You are an id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so then you agree there is no proof of ADHD being a organic brain disorder and that there is no valid medical test for ADHD ..good because those are the facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. I agree that you are nothing but an id-eot.
> 
> There are psychological conditions for which there is no scientific "proof" such as its being susceptible to a blood test or a brain scan. But that does not mean that a person suffering from one of the conditions described in the DSM does not have such a condition.
> 
> And there certainly are tests for ADD and ADHD. YOUR conspiracy world daffynition of "valid" is not a substitute for anything useful in the universe, you id-eot.
> 
> The FACT is that you truly are an id-eot.
Click to expand...

 
The tests are just tests of function/reasoning/focus. They aren't tests for genetic markers or proteins or anything like that. And psychological conditions are about as nebulous as anything...I don't think people should medicate for most psychological issues, either. Talk about quackery.

I don't think eots has ever said the behavior that is now called "ADHD" is imaginary. His point is that it's not something that calls for medication. I second the motion...when you are talking about kids who are 4,5,6,7,8,9...up to 20...they are all over the place. One kid will read for 2 hours straight....the kid sitting next to him can't read more than 5 minutes and has to read out loud in order to keep his place and as soon as something walks past his desk he's chasing it. So does that kid have ADHD, then? ADHD has just become a "disorder" that is assigned to kids who don't easily conform to the current behavioral *fads*. And they are ALMOST ALL MALE. 

Little boys have gone out of style. Boys that hit and jump and throw and bounce, who get dirty and sneak out of windows and put frogs down people's shirts and can't sit for 20 minutes at a time listening to a teacher drone on about math or good touch/bad touch are now considered "abnormal" and there has been a huge push to medicate them and railroad them out of the schools.

It's criminal.


----------



## eots

a child that has been on long term Ritalin is not eligible to join the armed services..

....According to information published at the Web site of the United States Naval Academy, the medical standards for admission are "specific and strict." There are many conditions which are deemed to disqualify an applicant. These standards clearly state that "..attention deficit or learning disorders/disabilities, hyperactivity, ... persisting into adolescence are disqualifying" .
http://www.addforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-12245.html


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



Don't get sucked into this... they run a bunch of tests for other things, and if they can't pigeon-hole him into any of those, they declare he has ADHD.

It's a scam.


----------



## Paulie

Sherry said:


> I had a first grade student who was medicated. His mother hated the effects of how it changed his personality, so she would not give it to him on the weekends. As a result, Mondays were very difficult for him, and I don't think the roller coaster was helpful. Medication would be a last resort for me. I think if the doctors know that a parent is very hesitant to use it, then hopefully they wouldn't be so quick to offer it initially before other options.



Almost every doctor is going to push meds.  At the end of the day they're the dealers for the pharma industry.  If doctors aren't prescribing meds, untold billions are being lost.

It's a shame to have to have such a cynical viewpoint on the situation, but it's the reality we're dealing with.


----------



## koshergrl

Those meds are typically cumulative, so putting him on, then taking him off, was careless. They should either use them as prescribed, or not at all.

No wonder we have kids shooting up schools. Their parents are idiots, and so are the teachers.


----------



## gxnelson

The term "ADD" is pretty much obsolete. ADHD refers to both ADD and ADHD, Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. 

Also, just because you have ADHD doesn't mean you need to medicate. I went through 21 years of life without being medicated. Luckily I was smart and learned techniques to compensate, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help. It's up to the individual and how their ADHD effects them.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> you can not refute anything I have said so you resort to these pathetic responses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Nothing to refute. *
> 
> You are an id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so then you agree there is no proof of ADHD being a organic brain disorder and that there is no valid medical test for ADHD ..good because those are the facts
Click to expand...


We are only going to treat symptoms based on "valid medical tests?"



Try getting an X-ray of schizophenia

Anyone who believes there is some magic test for all brain disorders has a brain disorder.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Nothing to refute. *
> 
> You are an id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so then you agree there is no proof of ADHD being a organic brain disorder and that there is no valid medical test for ADHD ..good because those are the facts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are only going to treat symptoms based on "valid medical tests?"
> 
> 
> 
> Try getting an X-ray of schizophenia
> 
> Anyone who believes there is some magic test for all brain disorders has a brain disorder.
Click to expand...


there is a big difference between treating symptoms and claiming something is a medical condition...and it is dangerous as it leads to a bizarre and every growing dsm and list of claimed medical disorders with no evidence..people in psychotic states come out of these states without medication..the entire medical model of schizophrenia is based on statistics that say the patient will come out of psychosis 2-3 weeks quicker with.. _medication_


----------



## Flopper

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.


There are over 5 million kids in this country diagnosed with ADHD plus a lot of adults and there is a slew of medications used to treat it.  One of my grand kids is ADHD.  You have to move carefully in treating kids with any of these drugs as there can be some bad reaction.  You have to be sure of the diagnosis.  I think you should have a second opinion.  Before starting treatment, I think the child should be seeing a psychologist to establish a base line for their behavior.  After treatment starts, the psychologist should be able to monitor the changes.

My grandson is on a medication now.  I don't remember which one, but he is doing much better.  The decision to go on drugs was pretty much of a "we tried everything else' scenario.

I'm not a profession, just a grandparent with an ADHD kid.
Good Luck


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> so then you agree there is no proof of ADHD being a organic brain disorder and that there is no valid medical test for ADHD ..good because those are the facts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are only going to treat symptoms based on "valid medical tests?"
> 
> 
> 
> Try getting an X-ray of schizophenia
> 
> Anyone who believes there is some magic test for all brain disorders has a brain disorder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is a big difference between treating symptoms and claiming something is a medical condition..... _medication_
Click to expand...




Huh? ANY condition manifests itself with SYMPTOMS.

moron.


----------



## eots

Flopper said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are over 5 million kids in this country diagnosed with ADHD plus a lot of adults and there is a slew of medications used to treat it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DSM HAS OWNED CREATING A FALSE EPIDEMIC
> 
> AND RITILAIN AND ADERAL ARE THE TREATMENTS FOR ADHD ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY SOME FORM OF METHAMPHETAMINE
> 
> 
> 
> One of my grand kids is ADHD.  You have to move carefully in treating kids with any of these drugs as there can be some bad reaction.  You have to be sure of the diagnosis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THERE IS NO VALID DIAGNOSIS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should have a second opinion.  Before starting treatment, I think the child should be seeing a psychologist to establish a base line for their behavior.  After treatment starts, the psychologist should be able to monitor the changes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> AS IT IS CONSIDERED A MEDICAL DISORDER IT WOULD NOT BE TREATED BY A PSYCOLGIST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My grandson is on a medication now.  I don't remember which one, but he is doing much better.  The decision to go on drugs was pretty much of a "we tried everything else' scenario.
> 
> I'm not a profession, just a grandparent with an ADHD kid.
> Good Luck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> EVERYTHING ELSE BEING WHAT ?..IF THIS CHILD REMAINS ON METHAMPHETAMINE TO ADOLESCENTS HE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO HAVE A PILOT LICENCES, WILL BE BARRED FROM MILITARY SERVICE, HAVE HIS GUN RIGHTS RESTRICTED
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> we are only going to treat symptoms based on "valid medical tests?"
> 
> 
> 
> Try getting an x-ray of schizophenia
> 
> anyone who believes there is some magic test for all brain disorders has a brain disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is a big difference between treating symptoms and claiming something is a medical condition..... _medication_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? Any condition manifests itself with symptoms.
> 
> Moron.
Click to expand...


all real medical illnesses can be tested for ..found in a autopsy ,seen in a scan..found in the blood..just like anyone subjected to ritlan of anti -psychotics ..you can scan the brain and see the damage from the drugs ..but not the supposed illness..you are just the 2013 version of those that supported ice picks in the brain based on the model of "symptom and symptom relief " without empirical evidence


----------



## thanatos144

I don't care if you can or cannot prove adhd is real.....I can tell you kids die from the medication.... I can tell you taking it makes you feel like a brain dead zombie..... I can tell you you can train yourself to do what needs to be done......responsibility is the way you do it...... At no time is giving your child speed a good thing.


----------



## eots

Investigators from the Brookhaven National Laboratory used PET scans to study 
the effects of Ritalin on overall cerebral blood flow. They measured the effect of clinical 
doses of Ritalin on blood flow in normal volunteers. They found that Ritalin decreased 
the overall flow of blood into the brain. The loss was large: 23-30% in all areas of the 
brain, including the higher brain centers in the frontal lobes, as well as in the basal 
ganglia deeper in the brain. The changes were a sufficiently dramatic to be grossly 
so

A study at Ohio State University found that over 50 percent of the 24 young 
adults being studied had atrophy, or loss, of brain tissue. They were all treated with 
stimulants since childhood for hyperactivity. The researchers concluded that cortical 
atrophy may be a long term effect of taking stimulant medications (Nasrallah 1986).

Rates of Depression and Anxiety Increase
Increased Sensitivity to Cocaine
Conclusion
Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity 
disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD).  Some of the many long-term 
effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in 
many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, increased sensitivity to cocaine, 
and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
http://www.neurosoup.com/pdf/effects_of_longterm_ritalin_use.pdf


----------



## koshergrl

I think medication has it's uses. In adults who suffer from things like anxiety and panic attacks, I think meds which alleviate those symptoms to give some relief can be a blessed thing...but not every day. 

Schizophrenia....well, I think that should be a personal decision made by the sufferer. The same with depression. One of my bosses had a daughter who battled with horrific depression from childhood on. She had meds...but had tried (seriously) to commit suicide more than once and finally succeeded while at college. What her mother said at her funeral was that her daughter had chosen to experience the horrible lows without medication, because with the medication, she missed out on joy of life as well. She preferred a more tumultuous experience than years of meh. And eventually it got the best of her and she killed herself, but who's to say she'd be better off being doped? She certainly wasn't happier when she was drugged.

By the same token, if medication makes you feel better and you're okay with the side effects, go for it.

But kids have no choice. And they are still developing. And they are better served learning to cope with the behaviors they have than masking those behaviors and developing new ones....given what we know about speed I don't see how anyone could ever advocate long-term use of it for any issue a kid has. We're using speed like we used to use laudanum. I think laudanum is preferrable.


----------



## Mr. H.

Most sufferers of Schizophrenia can't make rational decisions. Certainly not when they are off their meds. 
I've acted as my younger brother's court-appointed guardian for the past 20 years. He's been doing great these last few years but oh man has he had his moments.


----------



## koshergrl

I know that. But i think they still have the right to determine whether or not they are medicated.

But adversely, i think schizophrenics who are unable to care for themselves should be institutionalized, if that is what is called for. There's nothing more pathetic than irrational people who are out on the street, unprotected and uncared for.


----------



## Mr. H.

koshergrl said:


> I know that. But i think they still have the right to determine whether or not they are medicated.
> 
> But adversely, i think schizophrenics who are unable to care for themselves should be institutionalized, if that is what is called for. There's nothing more pathetic than irrational people who are out on the street, unprotected and uncared for.



That would call for rational self-determination. I've seen an irrational and unmedicated schizophrenic. Time after time, over the past 35 years. There's often very little (if any) concept of what is real, let alone the ability to make a personal decision regarding medication. 

That second part, absolutely.


----------



## koshergrl

I know, but it's a matter of, is it worse to be crazy, or doped? I've been around them too...I haven't seen that they are so much happier when they're medicated, when they really don't want the medication. Sane and depressed, or just outright crazy...I think maybe just let them choose which is most comfortable for them, and then take whatever measures you have to to keep them as safe as possible.

There comes a point when I think we, and they, are best served just to take a breath and say, ok, this person is never going to be a rational, fully functional human....so let's go for comfort. Are they HAPPIER when they're medicated, or are they HAPPIER when they're talking to a football?


----------



## eots

Mr. H. said:


> Most sufferers of Schizophrenia can't make rational decisions. Certainly not when they are off their meds.
> I've acted as my younger brother's court-appointed guardian for the past 20 years. He's been doing great these last few years but oh man has he had his moments.



once someone has taken anti-psychotics its a almost sure bet they will go nuts on a sudden withdraw..then this perpetuates the belief the medications are required and without them the person would be in psychosis. going off medications should be done slowly under a doctors care


----------



## eots

if there&#8217;s any mental illness in which you would not expect to see a placebo response, its schizophrenia.  Other psychiatric disorders, one might argue, involve cognitions, beliefs, expectations, feelings, etc.&#8212;all of which could conceivably improve when a patient believes an intervention (yes, even a placebo pill) might make him feel better.  But schizophrenia, by definition, is characterized by a distorted sense of reality, impaired thought processes, an inability to grasp the differences between the external world and the contents of one&#8217;s mind, and, frequently, the presence of bizarre sensory phenomena that can only come from the aberrant firing of the schizophrenic&#8217;s neurons.  How could these symptoms, which almost surely arise from neurochemistry gone awry, respond to a sugar pill?

Yet respond they do.  And not only do subjects in clinical trials get better with placebo, but the placebo response has been steadily improving over the last 20 years!  Kinon and his colleagues summarized placebo response rates from various antipsychotic trials since 1993 and found a very clear and gradual improvement in scores over the last 15-20 years.
The Placebo Effect: It Just Gets Better and Better « Thought Broadcast


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> ... this person is never going to be a rational, fully functional human....so let's go for comfort. Are they HAPPIER when they're medicated, or are they HAPPIER when they're talking to a football?



What if they are happier shooting the audience during the latest Batman movie or Democratic Representative from Arizona?


NOT ON MEDS because "there was no proof" of symptoms of a organic brain disorder and  there was "no valid medical test for the brain disorder:" 







You people are classic: If the medication doesn't work for EVERYONE, then it shouldn't be perscribed for ANYONE.

Guess what? Nothing works 100%. Medicine often works much less than 100%. Doesn't meant that its BAD to take, or that the symptoms that validate the persrciption must be verified by 100% accurate, "valid medical tests."

Anyone who has this sort of "Good or Bad" evaluation of medicine has a remarkably unrealistic understanding of reality, and probably deserves what rewards their ignorance allows.


----------



## koshergrl

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... this person is never going to be a rational, fully functional human....so let's go for comfort. Are they HAPPIER when they're medicated, or are they HAPPIER when they're talking to a football?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if they are happier shooting the audience during the latest Batman movie or Democratic Representative from Arizona?
> 
> You must have missed my statement that they should be institutionalized if they are that crazy. How did meds help those guys? Did it prevent them from killing?
> 
> 
> NOT ON MEDS because "there was no proof" of symptoms of a organic brain disorder and  there was "no valid medical test for the brain disorder:"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people are classic: If the medication doesn't work for EVERYONE, then it shouldn't be perscribed for ANYONE.
> 
> We're talking about kids with ADHD. Not adults with schizophrenia. And if you read my posts I was pretty adamant that in the case of adults, it should be up to the person...and if they aren't functional with their choice, they should be institutionalized.
> 
> The people we're talking about who shouldn't be prescribed hardcore drugs are CHILDREN, who are hyperactive...not adolescents who are practicing vivisection on puppies and hearing voices.
> 
> Guess what? Nothing works 100%. Medicine often works much less than 100%. Doesn't meant that its BAD to take, or that the symptoms that validate the persrciption must be verified by 100% accurate, "valid medical tests."
> 
> Anyone who has this sort of "Good or Bad" evaluation of medicine has a remarkably unrealistic understanding of reality, and probably deserves what rewards their ignorance allows.
Click to expand...


Again, I wasn't talking about yanking everybody's meds. I know very well that medicating children the age of Luissa's son, for hyperactivity, is foolish. Kids are all over the place when they're developing and their brains are still developing. Anyone with half a brain must realize that using amphetamines and other, mood altering chemicals that affect the brain directly is going to have a long term effect...and it won't be a positive one. Again, we're not talking about kids who hear voices, or who are having seizures. These are kids who have trouble focusing, and who bounce around.


----------



## sparky

The World Health org recently issued a statement declaring if adhd was a contageon, we'd be in the midst of a pandemic.....

~S~


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... this person is never going to be a rational, fully functional human....so let's go for comfort. Are they HAPPIER when they're medicated, or are they HAPPIER when they're talking to a football?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if they are happier shooting the audience during the latest Batman movie or Democratic Representative from Arizona?
> 
> 
> NOT ON MEDS because "there was no proof" of symptoms of a organic brain disorder and  there was "no valid medical test for the brain disorder:"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people are classic: If the medication doesn't work for EVERYONE, then it shouldn't be perscribed for ANYONE.
> 
> Guess what? Nothing works 100%. Medicine often works much less than 100%. Doesn't meant that its BAD to take, or that the symptoms that validate the persrciption must be verified by 100% accurate, "valid medical tests."
> 
> Anyone who has this sort of "Good or Bad" evaluation of medicine has a remarkably unrealistic understanding of reality, and probably deserves what rewards their ignorance allows.
Click to expand...


 all of the school shooters where *on ssris *a drug that is no better than placebo..these drugs are banned in Europe for youth and for mild to moderate depression because of the proven link between these drugs and sucidal and homicidal thoughts and actions


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdXSjuH8bjQ]Link Between School Shootings and Prescription Meds - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... this person is never going to be a rational, fully functional human....so let's go for comfort. Are they HAPPIER when they're medicated, or are they HAPPIER when they're talking to a football?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if they are happier shooting the audience during the latest Batman movie or Democratic Representative from Arizona?
> 
> You must have missed my statement that they should be institutionalized if they are that crazy. How did meds help those guys? Did it prevent them from killing?
> 
> 
> NOT ON MEDS because "there was no proof" of symptoms of a organic brain disorder and  there was "no valid medical test for the brain disorder:"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people are classic: If the medication doesn't work for EVERYONE, then it shouldn't be perscribed for ANYONE.
> 
> We're talking about kids with ADHD. Not adults with schizophrenia. And if you read my posts I was pretty adamant that in the case of adults, it should be up to the person...and if they aren't functional with their choice, they should be institutionalized.
> 
> The people we're talking about who shouldn't be prescribed hardcore drugs are CHILDREN, who are hyperactive...not adolescents who are practicing vivisection on puppies and hearing voices.
> 
> Guess what? Nothing works 100%. Medicine often works much less than 100%. Doesn't meant that its BAD to take, or that the symptoms that validate the persrciption must be verified by 100% accurate, "valid medical tests."
> 
> Anyone who has this sort of "Good or Bad" evaluation of medicine has a remarkably unrealistic understanding of reality, and probably deserves what rewards their ignorance allows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I wasn't talking about yanking everybody's meds. I know very well that medicating children the age of Luissa's son, for hyperactivity, is foolish. Kids are all over the place when they're developing and their brains are still developing. Anyone with half a brain must realize that using amphetamines and other, mood altering chemicals that affect the brain directly is going to have a long term effect...and it won't be a positive one. Again, we're not talking about kids who hear voices, or who are having seizures. These are kids who have trouble focusing, and who bounce around.
Click to expand...


No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.

Neither do I.

SOME kids do benefit from ADHD medication. Not ALL kids. THe CDC has MORE than "half a brain," and as I have demonstrated, believes ADHD is a medical condition.

The ADHD is just as much a brain disorder as any other brain disorder: You seem to have conveniently decided that children are somehow immune to having brain disorders, which is an irresponsible and dangerous position.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... this person is never going to be a rational, fully functional human....so let's go for comfort. Are they HAPPIER when they're medicated, or are they HAPPIER when they're talking to a football?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if they are happier shooting the audience during the latest Batman movie or Democratic Representative from Arizona?
> 
> 
> NOT ON MEDS because "there was no proof" of symptoms of a organic brain disorder and  there was "no valid medical test for the brain disorder:"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people are classic: If the medication doesn't work for EVERYONE, then it shouldn't be perscribed for ANYONE.
> 
> Guess what? Nothing works 100%. Medicine often works much less than 100%. Doesn't meant that its BAD to take, or that the symptoms that validate the persrciption must be verified by 100% accurate, "valid medical tests."
> 
> Anyone who has this sort of "Good or Bad" evaluation of medicine has a remarkably unrealistic understanding of reality, and probably deserves what rewards their ignorance allows.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> all of the school shooters where *on ssris *a drug that is no better than placebo..these drugs are banned in Europe for youth and for mild to moderate depression because of the proven link between these drugs and sucidal and homicidal thoughts and actions
Click to expand...


No link.

No credability.

Typical.

Stick to youtube videos no one watchs.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if they are happier shooting the audience during the latest Batman movie or Democratic Representative from Arizona?
> 
> 
> NOT ON MEDS because "there was no proof" of symptoms of a organic brain disorder and  there was "no valid medical test for the brain disorder:"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people are classic: If the medication doesn't work for EVERYONE, then it shouldn't be perscribed for ANYONE.
> 
> Guess what? Nothing works 100%. Medicine often works much less than 100%. Doesn't meant that its BAD to take, or that the symptoms that validate the persrciption must be verified by 100% accurate, "valid medical tests."
> 
> Anyone who has this sort of "Good or Bad" evaluation of medicine has a remarkably unrealistic understanding of reality, and probably deserves what rewards their ignorance allows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all of the school shooters where *on ssris *a drug that is no better than placebo..these drugs are banned in Europe for youth and for mild to moderate depression because of the proven link between these drugs and sucidal and homicidal thoughts and actions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No link.
> 
> No credability.
> 
> Typical.
> 
> Stick to youtube videos no one watchs.
Click to expand...


a youtube video is just another format to disseminate information ..so what is it you are in denial about ?   that ssris cause suicide and homicidal actions or that all school shooter/mass shooters have been on psych drugs..??


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if they are happier shooting the audience during the latest Batman movie or Democratic Representative from Arizona?
> 
> You must have missed my statement that they should be institutionalized if they are that crazy. How did meds help those guys? Did it prevent them from killing?
> 
> 
> NOT ON MEDS because "there was no proof" of symptoms of a organic brain disorder and  there was "no valid medical test for the brain disorder:"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You people are classic: If the medication doesn't work for EVERYONE, then it shouldn't be perscribed for ANYONE.
> 
> We're talking about kids with ADHD. Not adults with schizophrenia. And if you read my posts I was pretty adamant that in the case of adults, it should be up to the person...and if they aren't functional with their choice, they should be institutionalized.
> 
> The people we're talking about who shouldn't be prescribed hardcore drugs are CHILDREN, who are hyperactive...not adolescents who are practicing vivisection on puppies and hearing voices.
> 
> Guess what? Nothing works 100%. Medicine often works much less than 100%. Doesn't meant that its BAD to take, or that the symptoms that validate the persrciption must be verified by 100% accurate, "valid medical tests."
> 
> Anyone who has this sort of "Good or Bad" evaluation of medicine has a remarkably unrealistic understanding of reality, and probably deserves what rewards their ignorance allows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I wasn't talking about yanking everybody's meds. I know very well that medicating children the age of Luissa's son, for hyperactivity, is foolish. Kids are all over the place when they're developing and their brains are still developing. Anyone with half a brain must realize that using amphetamines and other, mood altering chemicals that affect the brain directly is going to have a long term effect...and it won't be a positive one. Again, we're not talking about kids who hear voices, or who are having seizures. These are kids who have trouble focusing, and who bounce around.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.
> 
> Neither do I.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOME kids do benefit from ADHD medication. Not ALL kids. THe CDC has MORE than "half a brain," and as I have demonstrated, believes ADHD is a medical condition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The ADHD is just as much a brain disorder as any other brain disorder: You seem to have conveniently decided that children are somehow immune to having brain disorders, which is an irresponsible and dangerous position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
Click to expand...


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> all of the school shooters where *on ssris *a drug that is no better than placebo..these drugs are banned in Europe for youth and for mild to moderate depression because of the proven link between these drugs and sucidal and homicidal thoughts and actions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No link.
> 
> No credability.
> 
> Typical.
> 
> Stick to youtube videos no one watchs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a youtube video is just another format to disseminate information ..so what is it you are in denial about ?   that ssris cause suicide and homicidal actions or that all school shooter/mass shooters have been on psych drugs..??
Click to expand...


Rinse.

Wash.

Repeat.

You're still full of shit.


----------



## eots

The British government ban for use of all but one SSRI antidepressant drug in children and teens (Dec 10, 2003) is reverberating wherever these drugs are widely prescribed. The action was taken after an independent committee of experts examined the raw data from controlled clinical trials that had been conducted by these drugs' manufacturers. The evidence shows that contrary to the claims made by their promoters, SSRIs are neither effective against depression in children, nor safe. The hazards posed by SSRIs--of which the most serious is self-harm and aggression toward others--had been detected during company controlled clinical trials, but the hazards were concealed--even in published reports in academic journals. Thus, doctors who prescribed the drugs and patients and families for whom they have been prescribed were kept in the dark.

The revelation about the hidden hazards posed by SSRIs raised serious concerns about how drugs are tested, how the findings are reported, and how the regulatory agencies meet their public responsibility. * How is it that the prominent expert psychiatrists worldwide failed to notice the significant finding of emergent suicidal behavior in adolescents testing Paxil?

In a published paroxetine study, one in 10 (10.5 per cent) of the patients taking Paxil had a "serious" adverse effect compared to just one in 100 of the placebo patients and nearly eight of 100 (7.5 per cent) taking paroxetine required hospitalization. See: Keller, MD, Ryan ND, Strober M, Klein RG, Kutcher SP, Birmaher B, et al. Efficacy of paroxetine in the treatment of adolescent major depression: a randomized, controlled trial. Journal of the Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (2001), 40:762-772.

Neither the leading experts in psychiatry nor officials of the FDA (or equivalents in the UK) noticed these suicide findings. A British journalist not trained in science readily detected the problem and brought it to public attention.

The MHRA was said to have told doctors last night they should not prescribe any selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), other than Prozac. It will also warn that Prozac will help only one child out of 10. However, the agency will say that patients already on medication should not stop it suddenly, to avoid withdrawal symptoms. 

UK - Major antidepressants banned - suicide threat


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No link.
> 
> No credability.
> 
> Typical.
> 
> Stick to youtube videos no one watchs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a youtube video is just another format to disseminate information ..so what is it you are in denial about ?   that ssris cause suicide and homicidal actions or that all school shooter/mass shooters have been on psych drugs..??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rinse.
> 
> Wash.
> 
> Repeat.
> 
> You're still full of shit.
Click to expand...


you have been reduced to a babbling cretin who can not address a single fact


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAO5_Hk06Mc]Fox News: SSRI Antidepressants Causing School Shootings? With Dr. Peter Breggin - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ADHD is just as much a brain disorder as any other brain disorder: You seem to have conveniently decided that children are somehow immune to having brain disorders, which is an irresponsible and dangerous position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
Click to expand...


Try to fucking keep up.

I cannot spoon feed you every single piece of evidence twice:

Within my previous post: From the Center for Diease Control:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/275316-my-son-may-have-adhd-6.html#post6729630


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ADHD is just as much a brain disorder as any other brain disorder: You seem to have conveniently decided that children are somehow immune to having brain disorders, which is an irresponsible and dangerous position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to fucking keep up.
> 
> I cannot spoon feed you every single piece of evidence twice:
> 
> Within my previous post: From the Center for Diease Control:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/275316-my-son-may-have-adhd-6.html#post6729630
Click to expand...


Signs and Symptoms
It is normal for children to have trouble focusing and behaving at one time or another. However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
A child with ADHD might:

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others

T_*his is the science your ridiculous link offers...lol..you clown..you are so out of your league*_


----------



## koshergrl

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I wasn't talking about yanking everybody's meds. I know very well that medicating children the age of Luissa's son, for hyperactivity, is foolish. Kids are all over the place when they're developing and their brains are still developing. Anyone with half a brain must realize that using amphetamines and other, mood altering chemicals that affect the brain directly is going to have a long term effect...and it won't be a positive one. Again, we're not talking about kids who hear voices, or who are having seizures. These are kids who have trouble focusing, and who bounce around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.
> 
> Neither do I.
> 
> 
> 
> The ADHD is just as much a brain disorder as any other brain disorder: You seem to have conveniently decided that children are somehow immune to having brain disorders, which is an irresponsible and dangerous position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

your whole argument is a fluffy little government site told me so...


Scientists are studying cause(s) and risk factors in an effort to find better ways to manage and reduce the chances of a person having ADHD.  *The cause(s) and risk factors for ADHD are unknown, *

CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD


----------



## eots

*The effects of ritlian use however are well known and measurable in the child's brain*

Abstract
Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity 
disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term 
effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in 
many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to 
cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
Introduction
Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is commonly prescribed as treatment for attention 
deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD).  It is 
estimated that 750,000 to 1 million school children are receiving 20 million prescriptions 
for stimulant medications and the figure is still growing (IMS Health 2002). 
Many of the long-term effects of Ritalin use stay with the patient for life.  This is 
primarily because of the fact that Ritalin is most often used during childhood and 
adolescence while the brain is still developing.
Constricts Blood Flow to the Brain
Investigators from the Brookhaven National Laboratory used PET scans to study 
the effects of Ritalin on overall cerebral blood flow. They measured the effect of clinical 
doses of Ritalin on blood flow in normal volunteers. They found that Ritalin decreased 
the overall flow of blood into the brain. The loss was large: 23-30% in all areas of the 
brain, including the higher brain centers in the frontal lobes, as well as in the basal 
ganglia deeper in the brain. The changes were a sufficiently dramatic to be grossly 

http://www.neurosoup.com/pdf/effects_of_longterm_ritalin_use.pdf


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.
> 
> Neither do I.
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
Click to expand...


Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:

About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> your whole argument is a fluffy little government site told me so...
> 
> 
> Scientists are studying cause(s) and risk factors in an effort to find better ways to manage and reduce the chances of a person having ADHD.  *The cause(s) and risk factors for ADHD are unknown, *
> 
> CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD



So what?

Because causes of a disease are unknown, it doesn't exist?

Grow the fuck up.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try to fucking keep up.
> 
> I cannot spoon feed you every single piece of evidence twice:
> 
> Within my previous post: From the Center for Diease Control:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/275316-my-son-may-have-adhd-6.html#post6729630
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Signs and Symptoms
> It is normal for children to have trouble focusing and behaving at one time or another. However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
> A child with ADHD might:
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> T_*his is the science your ridiculous link offers...lol..you clown..you are so out of your league*_
Click to expand...




Poor, poor eots.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.
> 
> Neither do I.
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
Click to expand...


No we do not suffer from your appeal to authority..and instead use critical thinking and empirical evidence as do the legions of licensed physicians and psychiatrist that have lead the cause of informing people of the dangers of these treatments..efforts of those like  the chairman of the DSM taking responsibility for the creation of a false epidemic..those that fought to have ssris banned for children throughout europe..in 1952 the noble prize was awarded for the lobotomy by people much like your_ world health organization_

Controversial Psychosurgery Resulted in a Nobel Prize
Controversial Psychosurgery Resulted in a Nobel Prize


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try to fucking keep up.
> 
> I cannot spoon feed you every single piece of evidence twice:
> 
> Within my previous post: From the Center for Diease Control:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/275316-my-son-may-have-adhd-6.html#post6729630
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Signs and Symptoms
> It is normal for children to have trouble focusing and behaving at one time or another. However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
> A child with ADHD might:
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> T_*his is the science your ridiculous link offers...lol..you clown..you are so out of your league*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor, poor eots.
Click to expand...


it just the truth you are completely uninformed and your logic completely flawed


----------



## Liability

id-eots doesn't understand thing one about the nature of the science of the human mind, but when he finds a conspiracy theory, he latches on like a hungry newborn baby to a mommy's nipple.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No we do not suffer from your appeal to authority..and instead use critical thinking and empirical evidence as do the legions of licensed physicians and psychiatrist that have lead the cause of informing people of the dangers of these treatments..efforts of those like  the chairman of the DSM taking responsibility for the creation of a false epidemic..those that fought to have ssris banned for children throughout europe..in 1952 the noble prize was awarded for the lobotomy by people much like your_ world health organization_
> 
> Controversial Psychosurgery Resulted in a Nobel Prize
> Controversial Psychosurgery Resulted in a Nobel Prize
Click to expand...


The best you can do is compare medicine today with medicine 70 years ago.

***pitiful***


Why stop there? Why not go back to the middle ages?

Maybe we should stop ALL perscriptions! After all, mercury was once perscribed for constipation!


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> id-eots doesn't understand thing one about the nature of the science of the human mind, but when he finds a conspiracy theory, he latches on like a hungry newborn baby to a mommy's nipple.



blah blah blah ...do you wish to challenge me on any facts ?...No of course you dont..as you are completely incapable of doing so...take your mommys nipple drivel and fuck off loser


----------



## Samson

Liability said:


> id-eots doesn't understand thing one about the nature of the science of the human mind, but when he finds a conspiracy theory, he latches on like a hungry newborn baby to a mommy's nipple.



I find him slightly more entertaining that truthmatters.


He seems to have branched from whatever evolutionary limb she is on, and developed the skill to insert you-tube videos into a post as well as dig beetle larve from rotting logs.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No we do not suffer from your appeal to authority..and instead use critical thinking and empirical evidence as do the legions of licensed physicians and psychiatrist that have lead the cause of informing people of the dangers of these treatments..efforts of those like  the chairman of the DSM taking responsibility for the creation of a false epidemic..those that fought to have ssris banned for children throughout europe..in 1952 the noble prize was awarded for the lobotomy by people much like your_ world health organization_
> 
> Controversial Psychosurgery Resulted in a Nobel Prize
> Controversial Psychosurgery Resulted in a Nobel Prize
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The best you can do is compare medicine today with medicine 70 years ago.
> 
> ***pitiful***
> 
> 
> Why stop there? Why not go back to the middle ages?
> 
> Maybe we should ALL perscriptions! After all, mercury was once perscribed for constipation!
Click to expand...


It is a valid point it is very recent history the practice was carried on for decades after it received the noble prize and if we do not learn from history we repeat it as we do know with these chemical lobotomys and you adress nothing else I said .. clearly what is pathetic is how you cling to your denial in the face of all evidence


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots doesn't understand thing one about the nature of the science of the human mind, but when he finds a conspiracy theory, he latches on like a hungry newborn baby to a mommy's nipple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find him slightly more entertaining that truthmatters.
> 
> 
> He seems to have branched from whatever evolutionary limb she is on, and developed the skill to insert you-tube videos into a post as well as dig beetle larve from rotting logs.
Click to expand...


you are beat admit it..all you have presented is meaningless straw man post
and your silly child like cdc link


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots doesn't understand thing one about the nature of the science of the human mind, but when he finds a conspiracy theory, he latches on like a hungry newborn baby to a mommy's nipple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find him slightly more entertaining that truthmatters.
> 
> 
> He seems to have branched from whatever evolutionary limb she is on, and developed the skill to insert you-tube videos into a post as well as dig beetle larve from rotting logs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are beat admit it..all you have presented is meaningless straw man post
> and your silly child like cdc link
Click to expand...




Yeah, that's very convincing.


Thanks for playing.


----------



## eots

what a goof-ball..if you feel capable of disputing any of my facts please do so..otherwise you just keep playing posting your meaningless words and little cartoon characters..I think this thread and the intelligent informed contributions from myself and  those that share  my understanding..compared to the contribution of you and liarabilty says it all


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> what a goof-ball..if you feel capable of disputing any of my facts please do so..otherwise you just keep playing posting your meaningless words and little cartoon characters..I think this thread and the intelligent informed contributions from myself and  those that share  my understanding..compared to the contribution of you and liarabilty says it all



Meltdown....in 5...4...3..


----------



## koshergrl

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.
> 
> Neither do I.
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
Click to expand...


ADHD isn't a mental disorder.


----------



## Liability

koshergrl said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ADHD isn't a mental disorder.
Click to expand...


It kinda is.  NIMH · Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)

But according to id-eots, the distinction is irrelevant because ADHD doesn't even exist!


----------



## Liability

id-eots imagines that his firm grasp on YouTube provides him with superior information and knowledge than actual doctors at the national institute of mental health.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publ...ficit-hyperactivity-disorder/adhd_booklet.pdf

THOSE poor deluded and obviously uninformed, ignorant and misled (or deliberately deceiving) sons of bitches dispute what id-eots pretends he "knows."   They claim, 





> Genes. Inherited from our parents, genes are the &#8220;blueprints&#8221; for who we are. Results from several international studies of twins show that ADHD often runs in families. Researchers are looking at several genes that may make people more likely to develop the disorder.2,3 Knowing the genes involved may one day help researchers prevent the disorder before symptoms develop. Learning about specific genes could also lead to better treatments.


  And they cite:  2 Faraone SV, Perlis RH, Doyle AE, Smoller JW, Goralnick JJ, Holmgren MA, Sklar P. Molecular genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Biological Psychiatry, 2005; 57:1313-1323.
3 Khan SA, Faraone SV. The genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity

But id-eots knows better.


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ADHD isn't a mental disorder.
Click to expand...


Why? Because you say so?

Sorry sweetie, but the Center for Diease Control disagrees, and frankly, their cred is a lot better than yours.

Here's a link to the post where I referenced the CDC report already in this thread.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/275316-my-son-may-have-adhd-6.html#post6729630

Please don't think I'm going to make a habit of spoon-feeding you as well as eots, to whom I also had to nurse like an intellectual infant on page 17 of the thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/275316-my-son-may-have-adhd-17.html#post6763063


----------



## Samson

Liability said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADHD isn't a mental disorder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It kinda is.  NIMH · Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
> 
> But according to id-eots, the distinction is irrelevant because ADHD doesn't even exist!
Click to expand...


The National Institute for Mental Health? .......what possible credentials would they have compared to koshergirl and eots?


----------



## thanatos144

Truth is that it doesn't matter if you think adhd exists or not or if it is a mental disorder or not..... It is how it is being used that is bothersome. Look at the warning signs for it and tell me it doesn't fit almost every boy you know? Not only that but they only need to find two signs to say a kid has some form of adhd . It is clear teachers are using the drugs as babysitters. Parents are as well. These drugs are no joke. They are Fucking dangerous to adult can you imagine what it is doing to a developing brain of a child? Look I know people like to think doctors would never cause harm to patients  but truth is like  most scientists they don't like being wrong at any time.


----------



## Samson

thanatos144 said:


> Truth is that it doesn't matter if you think adhd exists or not or if it is a mental disorder or not..... It is how it is being used that is bothersome. Look at the warning signs for it and tell me it doesn't fit almost every boy you know? Not only that but they only need to find two signs to say a kid has some form of adhd . It is clear teachers are using the drugs as babysitters. Parents are as well. These drugs are no joke. They are Fucking dangerous to adult can you imagine what it is dpi.g to a developing brain of a child? Look I know people like to think doctors would never cause harm to patciants (can't seem to spell it) but truth is like  most scientists they don't like being wrong at any time.



Wow are you always a blithering idiot or do you just save it for posts.


No one ever said no perscription can be abused, or that every diagnosis is perfect.

Go back to your sandbox.


----------



## koshergrl

The CDC doesn't define mental illness. It gathers stats and is primarily concerned with contagious diseases. I'm not sure what you keep carping about them for.


----------



## thanatos144

Samson said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is that it doesn't matter if you think adhd exists or not or if it is a mental disorder or not..... It is how it is being used that is bothersome. Look at the warning signs for it and tell me it doesn't fit almost every boy you know? Not only that but they only need to find two signs to say a kid has some form of adhd . It is clear teachers are using the drugs as babysitters. Parents are as well. These drugs are no joke. They are Fucking dangerous to adult can you imagine what it is dpi.g to a developing brain of a child? Look I know people like to think doctors would never cause harm to patciants (can't seem to spell it) but truth is like  most scientists they don't like being wrong at any time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow are you always a blithering idiot or do you just save it for posts.
> 
> 
> No one ever said no perscription can be abused, or that every diagnosis is perfect.
> 
> Go back to your sandbox.
Click to expand...

It isn't about abusing it you fucking idiot. It is dangerous just taking the prescribed dose....At what point do you ever think giving a child amphetamines is a good thing let alone twice a day? Have you ever taken the drugs ???? Do you even understand how it effects you?


----------



## Liability

Samson said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ADHD isn't a mental disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It kinda is.  NIMH · Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
> 
> But according to id-eots, the distinction is irrelevant because ADHD doesn't even exist!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The National Institute for Mental Health? .......what possible credentials would they have compared to koshergirl and eots?
Click to expand...


Good point.

I bet those geeks at the NIMH haven't even used YouTube as a primary source.


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> The CDC doesn't define mental illness. It gathers stats and is primarily concerned with contagious diseases. I'm not sure what you keep carping about them for.



Your lack of understanding is no surprise.




If you cannot use the link, and read the site, then there's not much hope for overcoming your ignorance.


----------



## thanatos144

Liability said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> It kinda is.  NIMH · Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
> 
> But according to id-eots, the distinction is irrelevant because ADHD doesn't even exist!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The National Institute for Mental Health? .......what possible credentials would they have compared to koshergirl and eots?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> I bet those geeks at the NIMH haven't even used YouTube as a primary source.
Click to expand...


Do you think being a boy constitutes a mental disorder??????


----------



## koshergrl

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The CDC doesn't define mental illness. It gathers stats and is primarily concerned with contagious diseases. I'm not sure what you keep carping about them for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your lack of understanding is no surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you cannot use the link, and read the site, then there's not much hope for overcoming your ignorance.
Click to expand...


Your devotion to drugs is no surprise, either.


----------



## Samson

thanatos144 said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> The National Institute for Mental Health? .......what possible credentials would they have compared to koshergirl and eots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> I bet those geeks at the NIMH haven't even used YouTube as a primary source.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think being a boy constitutes a mental disorder??????
Click to expand...




Here's the other side, from the National Library of Medicine.



An update on central nervous system stimulant formulations in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.

Chavez B, Sopko MA Jr, Ehret MJ, Paulino RE, Goldberg KR, Angstadt K, Bogart GT.

*CONCLUSIONS: 




			Stimulants are effective medications to treat the symptoms of ADHD. The multiple available dosage forms allow for individualization of treatment.
		
Click to expand...

*


> *OBJECTIVE: *
> 
> To review recent literature on the different stimulant preparations regarding efficacy and safety in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and describe advantages and disadvantages of the many available dosage formulations.
> 
> *DATA SOURCES:*
> 
> Literature retrieval was performed through PubMed/MEDLINE (2005-December 2008) using the terms methylphenidate, amphetamines, central nervous system stimulants, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. In addition, reference citations from publications identified were reviewed and drug manufacturers were contacted for any possible additional references.
> 
> *STUDY SELECTION AND DATA EXTRACTION:*
> 
> Double-blind clinical trials found using the search criteria listed above were included for review. Open-label studies and studies prior to 2005 were included if no double-blind trials were published for that formulation within the time period reviewed.
> 
> *DATA SYNTHESIS: *
> 
> The literature reviewed here demonstrates the efficacy and safety of stimulant medications in children and adolescents with ADHD. However, there are 19 different formulations of stimulants, leading to confusion and errors in prescribing and dispensing of these drugs. Knowing and understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the different formulations can lead to individualized treatment. Formulations like *Concerta, Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, and Vyvanse provide the convenience of once-daily dosing*. Each of these provides varying amount of stimulants at different times of the day. Vyvanse has a unique delivery system that may lower the risk of patients abusing their medication. *Daytrana* gives patients more control over their dosing by being able to choose when the patch is removed; it is also a feasible alternative for children who cannot swallow pills. For patients who cannot swallow tablets or capsules, the capsules of *Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, Metadate-CD, and Ritalin-LA* can be opened and sprinkled on applesauce.


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The CDC doesn't define mental illness. It gathers stats and is primarily concerned with contagious diseases. I'm not sure what you keep carping about them for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your lack of understanding is no surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you cannot use the link, and read the site, then there's not much hope for overcoming your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your devotion to drugs is no surprise, either.
Click to expand...


Surrendur in the form of a weak attempt to insult works for me.



Sadly for you, there's nothing to perscribe for argumentative failure.



But thanks for playing.


----------



## thanatos144

Samson said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> I bet those geeks at the NIMH haven't even used YouTube as a primary source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think being a boy constitutes a mental disorder??????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the other side, from the National Library of Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> An update on central nervous system stimulant formulations in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.
> 
> Chavez B, Sopko MA Jr, Ehret MJ, Paulino RE, Goldberg KR, Angstadt K, Bogart GT.
> 
> *CONCLUSIONS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stimulants are effective medications to treat the symptoms of ADHD. The multiple available dosage forms allow for individualization of treatment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *OBJECTIVE: *
> 
> To review recent literature on the different stimulant preparations regarding efficacy and safety in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and describe advantages and disadvantages of the many available dosage formulations.
> 
> *DATA SOURCES:*
> 
> Literature retrieval was performed through PubMed/MEDLINE (2005-December 2008) using the terms methylphenidate, amphetamines, central nervous system stimulants, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. In addition, reference citations from publications identified were reviewed and drug manufacturers were contacted for any possible additional references.
> 
> *STUDY SELECTION AND DATA EXTRACTION:*
> 
> Double-blind clinical trials found using the search criteria listed above were included for review. Open-label studies and studies prior to 2005 were included if no double-blind trials were published for that formulation within the time period reviewed.
> 
> *DATA SYNTHESIS: *
> 
> The literature reviewed here demonstrates the efficacy and safety of stimulant medications in children and adolescents with ADHD. However, there are 19 different formulations of stimulants, leading to confusion and errors in prescribing and dispensing of these drugs. Knowing and understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the different formulations can lead to individualized treatment. Formulations like *Concerta, Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, and Vyvanse provide the convenience of once-daily dosing*. Each of these provides varying amount of stimulants at different times of the day. Vyvanse has a unique delivery system that may lower the risk of patients abusing their medication. *Daytrana* gives patients more control over their dosing by being able to choose when the patch is removed; it is also a feasible alternative for children who cannot swallow pills. For patients who cannot swallow tablets or capsules, the capsules of *Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, Metadate-CD, and Ritalin-LA* can be opened and sprinkled on applesauce.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Your making my point for me....You ignorantly do think it is a good thing to give children amphetamines....You also have not clue what it is like to be on these drugs.... All because of what???? You to lazy to actually parent? To punish the child for being a child?


----------



## koshergrl

I don't believe anyone doubted that speed reduces the symptoms of adhd. Laudanum also reduced the symptoms.

The point is...why dope your kids for being kids?


----------



## koshergrl

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your lack of understanding is no surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you cannot use the link, and read the site, then there's not much hope for overcoming your ignorance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your devotion to drugs is no surprise, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Surrendur in the form of a weak attempt to insult works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly for you, there's nothing to perscribe for argumentative failure.
> 
> 
> 
> But thanks for playing.
Click to expand...


*yawn*


----------



## Samson

thanatos144 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think being a boy constitutes a mental disorder??????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the other side, from the National Library of Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> An update on central nervous system stimulant formulations in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.
> 
> Chavez B, Sopko MA Jr, Ehret MJ, Paulino RE, Goldberg KR, Angstadt K, Bogart GT.
> 
> *CONCLUSIONS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stimulants are effective medications to treat the symptoms of ADHD. The multiple available dosage forms allow for individualization of treatment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *OBJECTIVE: *
> 
> To review recent literature on the different stimulant preparations regarding efficacy and safety in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and describe advantages and disadvantages of the many available dosage formulations.
> 
> *DATA SOURCES:*
> 
> Literature retrieval was performed through PubMed/MEDLINE (2005-December 2008) using the terms methylphenidate, amphetamines, central nervous system stimulants, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. In addition, reference citations from publications identified were reviewed and drug manufacturers were contacted for any possible additional references.
> 
> *STUDY SELECTION AND DATA EXTRACTION:*
> 
> Double-blind clinical trials found using the search criteria listed above were included for review. Open-label studies and studies prior to 2005 were included if no double-blind trials were published for that formulation within the time period reviewed.
> 
> *DATA SYNTHESIS: *
> 
> The literature reviewed here demonstrates the efficacy and safety of stimulant medications in children and adolescents with ADHD. However, there are 19 different formulations of stimulants, leading to confusion and errors in prescribing and dispensing of these drugs. Knowing and understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the different formulations can lead to individualized treatment. Formulations like *Concerta, Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, and Vyvanse provide the convenience of once-daily dosing*. Each of these provides varying amount of stimulants at different times of the day. Vyvanse has a unique delivery system that may lower the risk of patients abusing their medication. *Daytrana* gives patients more control over their dosing by being able to choose when the patch is removed; it is also a feasible alternative for children who cannot swallow pills. For patients who cannot swallow tablets or capsules, the capsules of *Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, Metadate-CD, and Ritalin-LA* can be opened and sprinkled on applesauce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your making my point for me....You ignorantly do think it is a good thing to give children amphetamines....You also have not clue what it is like to be on these drugs.... All because of what???? You to lazy to actually parent? To punish the child for being a child?
Click to expand...


When you grow up, you'll comprehend.



Until then find a forum where your incredible level of stupidity isn't so obvious.


----------



## thanatos144

Samson said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the other side, from the National Library of Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> An update on central nervous system stimulant formulations in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.
> 
> Chavez B, Sopko MA Jr, Ehret MJ, Paulino RE, Goldberg KR, Angstadt K, Bogart GT.
> 
> *CONCLUSIONS:
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Your making my point for me....You ignorantly do think it is a good thing to give children amphetamines....You also have not clue what it is like to be on these drugs.... All because of what???? You to lazy to actually parent? To punish the child for being a child?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> When you grow up, you'll comprehend.
> 
> 
> 
> Until then find a forum where your incredible level of stupidity isn't so obvious.*
Click to expand...

*

Mother fucker unlike you I know first fucking hand what these drugs do and how dangerous they are. I also know they are unneeded XXXXXXX.You would have to actually make the effort! I know how amazing right? To actually take responsibility and parent the child instead of punishing it for being a child! XXXXXXX

No Family Attacks. Try to Not make it so personal.*


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> you have been reduced to a babbling cretin who can not address a single fact



Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have been reduced to a babbling cretin who can not address a single fact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.
Click to expand...


Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity 
disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term 
effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in 
many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to 
cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have been reduced to a babbling cretin who can not address a single fact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
Click to expand...


Wow, a drug with side effects.

No shit, Sherlock.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> id-eots imagines that his firm grasp on YouTube provides him with superior information and knowledge than actual doctors at the national institute of mental health.
> 
> http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publ...ficit-hyperactivity-disorder/adhd_booklet.pdf
> 
> THOSE poor deluded and obviously uninformed, ignorant and misled (or deliberately deceiving) sons of bitches dispute what id-eots pretends he "knows."   They claim,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genes. Inherited from our parents, genes are the blueprints for who we are. Results from several international studies of twins show that ADHD often runs in families. Researchers are looking at several genes tha*t may make *people more likely to develop the disorder.2,3 Knowing the genes involved* may one day help researchers* prevent the disorder before symptoms develop. Learning about specific genes *could also lead* to better treatments.
> 
> 
> 
> And they cite:  2 Faraone SV, Perlis RH, Doyle AE, Smoller JW, Goralnick JJ, Holmgren MA, Sklar P. Molecular genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Biological Psychiatry, 2005; 57:1313-1323.
> 3 Khan SA, Faraone SV. The genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity
> 
> But id-eots knows better.
Click to expand...


can  you even read ??..this is from 2005 they still have no diagnostic test and zero proof that ADHD is genetic or even exists as an illness...


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have been reduced to a babbling cretin who can not address a single fact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
Click to expand...


Okay - and you can't provide the cons without addressing the pros.



> Ritalin fine-tunes the functioning of neurons in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) - a brain region involved in attention, decision-making and impulse control - while having few effects outside it.​




How Ritalin Works In Brain To Boost Cognition, Focus Attention




> Mounting behavioral and neurochemical evidence suggests that clinically relevant doses of Ritalin primarily target the PFC, without affecting brain centers linked to over-arousal and addiction. In other words, Ritalin at low doses doesn't appear to act like a stimulant at all.
> 
> "It's the higher doses of these drugs that are normally associated with their effects as stimulants, those that increase locomotor activity, impair cognition and target neurotransmitters all over the brain," says Berridge. "These lower doses are diametrically opposed to that. Instead, they help the PFC better do what it's supposed to do."





​


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, a drug with side effects.
> 
> No shit, Sherlock.
Click to expand...


the side effect being if you do a cat scan of a child with so called ADHD symptoms all you see is a normal brain...scan a child treated for a few years on ritlian and you see brain damage...thats some side effect


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots imagines that his firm grasp on YouTube provides him with superior information and knowledge than actual doctors at the national institute of mental health.
> 
> http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publ...ficit-hyperactivity-disorder/adhd_booklet.pdf
> 
> THOSE poor deluded and obviously uninformed, ignorant and misled (or deliberately deceiving) sons of bitches dispute what id-eots pretends he "knows."   They claim,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Genes. Inherited from our parents, genes are the blueprints for who we are. Results from several international studies of twins show that ADHD often runs in families. Researchers are looking at several genes tha*t may make *people more likely to develop the disorder.2,3 Knowing the genes involved* may one day help researchers* prevent the disorder before symptoms develop. Learning about specific genes *could also lead* to better treatments.
> 
> 
> 
> And they cite:  2 Faraone SV, Perlis RH, Doyle AE, Smoller JW, Goralnick JJ, Holmgren MA, Sklar P. Molecular genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Biological Psychiatry, 2005; 57:1313-1323.
> 3 Khan SA, Faraone SV. The genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity
> 
> But id-eots knows better.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> can  you even read ??..this is from 2005 they still have no diagnostic test and zero proof that ADHD is genetic or even exists as an illness...
Click to expand...


Evidently you can't read.  But if you COULD, you'd realize I have never claimed that there has been discovered (yet) any proof that it "is" genetic.  It is one of the scientific theories about the malady that is still getting examined scientifically, you id-eot.

There is obviously a great deal of medical and scientific reason to believe that the condition is real.    You are not obliged to accept that it is.  But you also lack ANY ability in logic. science, reason or fact to claim that it isn't real.  The MOST you could say (if you bothered to be honest) is that it is as yet un-proved.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay - and you can't provide the cons without addressing the pros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin fine-tunes the functioning of neurons in the prefrontal cortex (PFC) - a brain region involved in attention, decision-making and impulse control - while having few effects outside it.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How Ritalin Works In Brain To Boost Cognition, Focus Attention
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mounting behavioral and neurochemical evidence suggests that clinically relevant doses of Ritalin primarily target the PFC, without affecting brain centers linked to over-arousal and addiction. In other words, Ritalin at low doses doesn't appear to act like a stimulant at all.
> 
> "It's the higher doses of these drugs that are normally associated with their effects as stimulants, those that increase locomotor activity, impair cognition and target neurotransmitters all over the brain," says Berridge. "These lower doses are diametrically opposed to that. Instead, they help the PFC better do what it's supposed to do."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


steroids will make your kid have bigger muscles..this does not mean he has a muscular disorder or disease or that the drugs are good for them over-all


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, a drug with side effects.
> 
> No shit, Sherlock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the side effect being if you do a cat scan of a child with so called ADHD symptoms all you see is a normal brain...scan a child treated for a few years on ritlian and you see brain damage...thats some side effect
Click to expand...


First, idiot, I'm not going to do a CAT scan of anyone....that's what the physician is for....see, that's why they call it a PERSCRIPTION: It is not supposed to be given unless a trained physician perscribes it, and GUESS WHAT?

You cannot get a TWO YEAR PERSCRIPTION!


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay - and you can't provide the cons without addressing the pros.
> 
> 
> 
> How Ritalin Works In Brain To Boost Cognition, Focus Attention
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mounting behavioral and neurochemical evidence suggests that clinically relevant doses of Ritalin primarily target the PFC, without affecting brain centers linked to over-arousal and addiction. In other words, Ritalin at low doses doesn't appear to act like a stimulant at all.
> 
> "It's the higher doses of these drugs that are normally associated with their effects as stimulants, those that increase locomotor activity, impair cognition and target neurotransmitters all over the brain," says Berridge. "These lower doses are diametrically opposed to that. Instead, they help the PFC better do what it's supposed to do."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> steroids will make your kid have bigger muscles..this does not mean he has a muscular disorder or disease or that the drugs are good for them over-all
Click to expand...


So you have to change the subject to make your point? Guess your point was too weak to stand scrutiny then.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots imagines that his firm grasp on YouTube provides him with superior information and knowledge than actual doctors at the national institute of mental health.
> 
> http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publ...ficit-hyperactivity-disorder/adhd_booklet.pdf
> 
> THOSE poor deluded and obviously uninformed, ignorant and misled (or deliberately deceiving) sons of bitches dispute what id-eots pretends he "knows."   They claim,   And they cite:  2 Faraone SV, Perlis RH, Doyle AE, Smoller JW, Goralnick JJ, Holmgren MA, Sklar P. Molecular genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Biological Psychiatry, 2005; 57:1313-1323.
> 3 Khan SA, Faraone SV. The genetics of attention-deficit/hyperactivity
> 
> But id-eots knows better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can  you even read ??..this is from 2005 they still have no diagnostic test and zero proof that ADHD is genetic or even exists as an illness...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Evidently you can't read.  But if you COULD, you'd realize I have never claimed that there has been discovered (yet) any proof that it "is" genetic.  It is one of the scientific theories about the malady that is still getting examined scientifically, you id-eot.
> 
> There is obviously a great deal of medical and scientific reason to believe that the condition is real.    You are not obliged to accept that it is.  But you also lack ANY ability in logic. science, reason or fact to claim that it isn't real.  The MOST you could say (if you bothered to be honest) is that it is as yet un-proved.
Click to expand...


great so you agree there is zero proof that ADHD exists as an illness but solid proof the drugs can cause measurable brain tissue loss


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> can  you even read ??..this is from 2005 they still have no diagnostic test and zero proof that ADHD is genetic or even exists as an illness...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently you can't read.  But if you COULD, you'd realize I have never claimed that there has been discovered (yet) any proof that it "is" genetic.  It is one of the scientific theories about the malady that is still getting examined scientifically, you id-eot.
> 
> There is obviously a great deal of medical and scientific reason to believe that the condition is real.    You are not obliged to accept that it is.  But you also lack ANY ability in logic. science, reason or fact to claim that it isn't real.  The MOST you could say (if you bothered to be honest) is that it is as yet un-proved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> great so you agree there is zero proof that ADHD exists as an illness but solid proof the drugs can cause measurable brain tissue loss
Click to expand...

No.  You are wrong, ignorant or maybe just dishonest.  There *is* a LOT of evidence that ADHD absolutely exists as an illness.  But I do agree that it is not yet scientifically verified proof.

And there has never been any doubt that prescribed drugs can have side-effects, you id-eot.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay - and you can't provide the cons without addressing the pros.
> 
> 
> 
> How Ritalin Works In Brain To Boost Cognition, Focus Attention
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> steroids will make your kid have bigger muscles..this does not mean he has a muscular disorder or disease or that the drugs are good for them over-all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you have to change the subject to make your point? Guess your point was too weak to stand scrutiny then.
Click to expand...


I did not change any point..you posted something suggesting drugs may enhance performances..and I am pointing out this is no proof of illness and no proof its beneficial over all


----------



## Delia

I have this sudden urge to leave EOTS alone in a roomful of untreated ADHD eight year-olds.


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> steroids will make your kid have bigger muscles..this does not mean he has a muscular disorder or disease or that the drugs are good for them over-all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have to change the subject to make your point? Guess your point was too weak to stand scrutiny then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not change any point..you posted something suggesting drugs my enhance performances..and i am pointing out this is no proof of illness and no proof its beneficial over all
Click to expand...


Not "MAY" *I assume you attempted to type 'may'*. DID. 

Try reading the article. I know, I know; there are lots of big words, and no pictures. But humor me.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evidently you can't read.  But if you COULD, you'd realize I have never claimed that there has been discovered (yet) any proof that it "is" genetic.  It is one of the scientific theories about the malady that is still getting examined scientifically, you id-eot.
> 
> There is obviously a great deal of medical and scientific reason to believe that the condition is real.    You are not obliged to accept that it is.  But you also lack ANY ability in logic. science, reason or fact to claim that it isn't real.  The MOST you could say (if you bothered to be honest) is that it is as yet un-proved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> great so you agree there is zero proof that ADHD exists as an illness but solid proof the drugs can cause measurable brain tissue loss
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No.  You are wrong, ignorant or maybe just dishonest.  There *is* a LOT of evidence that ADHD absolutely exists as an illness.  But I do agree that it is not yet scientifically verified proof.
> 
> And there has never been any doubt that prescribed drugs can have side-effects, you id-eot.
Click to expand...


What proof is there that ADHD exists as an illness ?


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> I have this sudden urge to leave EOTS alone in a roomful of untreated ADHD eight year-olds.



I have home schooled two children that where labeled ADHD who are now succesful happy dynamic drug free  young adults  and I am now on my third


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> great so you agree there is zero proof that ADHD exists as an illness but solid proof the drugs can cause measurable brain tissue loss
> 
> 
> 
> No.  You are wrong, ignorant or maybe just dishonest.  There *is* a LOT of evidence that ADHD absolutely exists as an illness.  But I do agree that it is not yet scientifically verified proof.
> 
> And there has never been any doubt that prescribed drugs can have side-effects, you id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What proof is there that ADHD exists as an illness ?
Click to expand...


^ this is why you ARE an id-eot.

Try to read some stuff with an *open* mind for a refreshing change of pace, you id-eot:

http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/when-the-diagnosis-is-a-d-h-d/


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have to change the subject to make your point? Guess your point was too weak to stand scrutiny then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not change any point..you posted something suggesting drugs my enhance performances..and i am pointing out this is no proof of illness and no proof its beneficial over all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not "MAY" *I assume you attempted to type 'may'*. DID.
> 
> Try reading the article. I know, I know; there are lots of big words, and no pictures. But humor me.
Click to expand...


no its may...the improvement is subjective


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  You are wrong, ignorant or maybe just dishonest.  There *is* a LOT of evidence that ADHD absolutely exists as an illness.  But I do agree that it is not yet scientifically verified proof.
> 
> And there has never been any doubt that prescribed drugs can have side-effects, you id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What proof is there that ADHD exists as an illness ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ this is why you ARE an id-eot.
Click to expand...


why because I ask questions you have no answer to ?


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have this sudden urge to leave EOTS alone in a roomful of untreated ADHD eight year-olds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have home schooled two children that where labeled ADHD who are now succesful happy dynamic drug free  young adults  and I am now on my third
Click to expand...


Your alleged offspring were apparently misdiagnosed. That, however, does not negate the existence of ADHD.


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> What proof is there that ADHD exists as an illness ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this is why you ARE an id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why because I ask questions you have no answer to ?
Click to expand...


No.  Because you are an id-eot.  Your "questions" are stupid.  YOU are stupid.

But, in any event, realizing how ignorant, delusional, stubborn and stupid you are, I EDITED the prior post before your latest post.  Cross posted.   Another answer.  Another chance for you to reject it pretty much sight unseen.

You id-eot.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have this sudden urge to leave EOTS alone in a roomful of untreated ADHD eight year-olds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have home schooled two children that where labeled ADHD who are now succesful happy dynamic drug free  young adults  and I am now on my third
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your alleged offspring were apparently misdiagnosed. That, however, does not negate the existence of ADHD.
Click to expand...


there is no diagnostic test..there is no proof this is an illness..therefore there is no way to ever know if a  so called diagnosis is correct or not


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this is why you ARE an id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why because I ask questions you have no answer to ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  Because you are an id-eot.  Your "questions" are stupid.  YOU are stupid.
> 
> But, in any event, realizing how ignorant, delusional, stubborn and stupid you are, I EDITED the prior post before your latest post.  Cross posted.   Another answer.  Another chance for you to reject it pretty much sight unseen.
> 
> You id-eot.
Click to expand...


but you clearly claimed there was lots of proof ADHD was an illness...so wheres the lots of proof you claim ?


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have home schooled two children that where labeled ADHD who are now succesful happy dynamic drug free  young adults  and I am now on my third
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your alleged offspring were apparently misdiagnosed. That, however, does not negate the existence of ADHD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is no diagnostic test..there is no proof this is an illness..therefore there is no way to ever know if a  so called diagnosis is correct or not
Click to expand...


My point stands. 

By the way. If your *alleged* child(ren) had no symptoms, why were they tested.


----------



## Delia

> Based upon your responses to this adult ADD/ADHD screening quiz, you have replied in a way similar to people who have symptoms of moderate attention deficit disorder. Some people with scores similar to yours have sought professional treatment for this concern, especially if you find it interfering with your life.
> 
> If you were diagnosed with ADHD, it would likely be of the Combined type, as you indicated significant symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity.
> 
> 
> For ADD or ADHD to be diagnosed, usually the symptoms must occur in at least two different settings (like school and home, or work and home), and they must have lasted at least 6 months. Symptoms typically worsen in situations that require sustained attention or mental effort, or that are boring.
> 
> 
> You should not take this as a diagnosis of any sort, or a recommendation for treatment. However, it may be beneficial for you to seek further diagnosis from a physician or a trained mental health professional in order to rule out a possible attention deficit disorder.




http://psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm


You scored a total of  *24*

Inattention Subscale: 13 
Hyperactivity/Impulsivity Subscale: 11


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your alleged offspring were apparently misdiagnosed. That, however, does not negate the existence of ADHD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is no diagnostic test..there is no proof this is an illness..therefore there is no way to ever know if a  so called diagnosis is correct or not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point stands.
> 
> By the way. If your *alleged* child(ren) had no symptoms, why were they tested.
Click to expand...


I do not have alleged children I have three very real children and there is a lot of funding the schools receive for every learning diabled child they have..according to the chairman of the DSM-4..he is responsible for creating a false epidermic and schools could hardly contain themselves in there grabs for funding ..the so called symptoms of ADHD are as follows

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others

CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD

and my children have every one of these traits in a school setting....


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> why because I ask questions you have no answer to ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Because you are an id-eot.  Your "questions" are stupid.  YOU are stupid.
> 
> But, in any event, realizing how ignorant, delusional, stubborn and stupid you are, I EDITED the prior post before your latest post.  Cross posted.   Another answer.  Another chance for you to reject it pretty much sight unseen.
> 
> You id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but you clearly claimed there was lots of proof ADHD was an illness...so wheres the lots of proof you claim ?
Click to expand...


I did?  I said lots of "proof?"

Find it.  Quote it.  Link it.

But you won't.  You can't.  You are either stupid or dishonest.

Morons like you cannot distinguish between "evidence" and "proof."  But you imagine you have any credibility when it comes to your uninformed opinions on any scientific topic?

Too funny, you id-eot.


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> but you clearly claimed there was lots of proof ADHD was an illness...so wheres the lots of proof you claim ?



NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Mental Illnesses



> *Is ADHD associated with other disorders?*
> 
> Yes. In fact, symptoms like those of ADHD are often mistaken for or found occurring with other neurological, biological and behavioral disorders.​
> 
> *Oppositional defiant disorder.* Nearly half of all children with ADHD (especially boys) tend to also have_oppositional defiant disorder_, characterized by negative, hostile and defiant behavior.
> *Conduct disorder.*_ Conduct disorder_ (marked by aggression towards people and animals, destruction of property, deceitfulness or theft and serious rule-breaking) is found to co-occur in an estimated 40 percent of children with ADHD.
> *Anxiety and depression. *Approximately one-fourth of children with ADHD (mostly younger children and boys) also experience _anxiety_ and _depression_.
> *Communication/learning disability.* At least 25 percent of children with ADHD have some type of_communication/learning disability_.
> *Tourette's syndrome. *There is additionally a correlation between _Tourettes syndrome_, a neurobiological disorder characterized by motor and vocal tics and ADHDa small percentage of those with ADHD also have Tourettes, but at least half of those with Tourettes also have ADHD.
> *Bipolar disorder.* Research is also beginning to show that ADHD-like symptoms are sometimes actually manifestations of childhood-onset bipolar disorder.
> *What causes ADHD?*
> 
> First of all, it is important to realize that ADHD is _not_ caused by dysfunctional parenting, nor is it due to a lack of intelligence or discipline.​
> 
> *Biological basis.* Strong scientific evidence supports the conclusion that ADHD is a biologically based disorder. *Recently, National Institute of Mental Health researchers using PET scans have observed significantly lower metabolic activity in regions of the brain controlling attention, social judgment and movement in those with ADHD than in those without the disorder.* Biological studies also suggest that children with ADHD may have lower levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine in critical regions of the brain.
> *Toxins. *Other theories suggest that cigarette, alcohol and drug use during pregnancy or exposure to environmental toxins such as lead may be linked to the development of ADHD.
> *Genetic basis*. Research also suggests a strong genetic basis to ADHDthe disorder tends to run in families. In addition, research has shown that certain forms of genes related to the dopamine neurotransmitter system are linked to increased likelihood of the disorder.
> While early theories suggested that ADHD may be caused by minor head injuries or brain ​



​


----------



## koshergrl

Yes, kids with ODD and a variety of other disorders exhibit those symptoms.

So do a lot of perfectly normal kids who are never given speed.

Of the two groups, the ones that medicate, and the ones that don't, I wonder which group has the most incidence of the more challenging behaviors, later? I wonder which kids have a more difficult time as they get older?

I can tell you this...it's almost always kids from single parent households or actually in foster care that are medicated. What a coincidence for a *disease*.


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no diagnostic test..there is no proof this is an illness..therefore there is no way to ever know if a  so called diagnosis is correct or not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My point stands.
> 
> By the way. If your *alleged* child(ren) had no symptoms, why were they tested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do not have alleged children I have three very real children and there is a lot of funding the schools receive for every learning diabled child they have..according to the chairman of the DSM-4..he is responsible for creating a false epidermic and schools could hardly contain themselves in there grabs for funding ..the so called symptoms of ADHD are as follows
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD
> 
> and my children have every one of these traits in a school setting....
Click to expand...


Unlike the normal children. You just made the ADHD point.

You remove all the stimulants, and they're fine? Thanks.


----------



## Intense

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, a drug with side effects.
> 
> No shit, Sherlock.
Click to expand...


You want to live with those side effects?


----------



## Delia

The side effects are not based on the low dosage given to ADHD children.


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> The side effects are not based on the low dosage given to ADHD children.



bullshit those are studies of children given so called therapeutic dose of ritalian


----------



## Delia

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> The side effects are not based on the low dosage given to ADHD children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullshit those are studies of children given so called therapeutic dose of ritalian
Click to expand...


Proof, please.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Because you are an id-eot.  Your "questions" are stupid.  YOU are stupid.
> 
> But, in any event, realizing how ignorant, delusional, stubborn and stupid you are, I EDITED the prior post before your latest post.  Cross posted.   Another answer.  Another chance for you to reject it pretty much sight unseen.
> 
> You id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but you clearly claimed there was lots of proof ADHD was an illness...so wheres the lots of proof you claim ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did?  I said lots of "proof?"
> 
> Find it.  Quote it.  Link it.
> 
> But you won't.  You can't.  You are either stupid or dishonest.
> 
> Morons like you cannot distinguish between "evidence" and "proof."  But you imagine you have any credibility when it comes to your uninformed opinions on any scientific topic?
> 
> Too funny, you id-eot.
Click to expand...

. so where is your...lot of evidence ADHD  is an illness?


----------



## eots

Delia said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> but you clearly claimed there was lots of proof ADHD was an illness...so wheres the lots of proof you claim ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Mental Illnesses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is ADHD associated with other disorders?*
> 
> Yes. In fact, symptoms like those of ADHD are often mistaken for or found occurring with other neurological, biological and behavioral disorders.​
> 
> *Oppositional defiant disorder.* Nearly half of all children with ADHD (especially boys) tend to also have_oppositional defiant disorder_, characterized by negative, hostile and defiant behavior.
> *Conduct disorder.*_ Conduct disorder_ (marked by aggression towards people and animals, destruction of property, deceitfulness or theft and serious rule-breaking) is found to co-occur in an estimated 40 percent of children with ADHD.
> *Anxiety and depression. *Approximately one-fourth of children with ADHD (mostly younger children and boys) also experience _anxiety_ and _depression_.
> *Communication/learning disability.* At least 25 percent of children with ADHD have some type of_communication/learning disability_.
> *Tourette's syndrome. *There is additionally a correlation between _Tourette&#8217;s syndrome_, a neurobiological disorder characterized by motor and vocal tics and ADHD&#8212;a small percentage of those with ADHD also have Tourette&#8217;s, but at least half of those with Tourette&#8217;s also have ADHD.
> *Bipolar disorder.* Research is also beginning to show that ADHD-like symptoms are sometimes actually manifestations of childhood-onset bipolar disorder.
> *What causes ADHD?*
> 
> First of all, it is important to realize that ADHD is _not_ caused by dysfunctional parenting, nor is it due to a lack of intelligence or discipline.​
> 
> *Biological basis.* Strong scientific evidence supports the conclusion that ADHD is a biologically based disorder. *Recently, National Institute of Mental Health researchers using PET scans have observed significantly lower metabolic activity in regions of the brain controlling attention, social judgment and movement in those with ADHD than in those without the disorder.* Biological studies also suggest that children with ADHD may have lower levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine in critical regions of the brain.
> *Toxins. *Other *theories suggest* that cigarette, alcohol and drug use during pregnancy or exposure to environmental toxins such as lead may be linked to the development of ADHD.
> *Genetic basis*. Research* also suggests *a strong genetic basis to ADHD&#8212;the disorder tends to run in families. In addition, research has shown that certain forms of genes related to the dopamine neurotransmitter system are linked to increased likelihood of the disorder.
> While early theories suggested that ADHD may be caused by minor head injuries or brain ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


these studies are not valid because the children scanned where already subjected to brain damaging ritalian


----------



## Delia

Oh, okay.

/unsub


----------



## eots

*On The Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories*

3. Claimed comparisons of functional scans of so-called diseased brains to those of so-called normal brains have all been invalid, since they failed to take into consideration the various factors that influence brain circulation, including age, diet, gender, medical condition, weight, height, whether on drugs, drug history, education, etc. All of these and other factors influence the way a brain looks on a functional brain scan. (In one notorious study, the supposed differences between the normal and abnormal brains were entirely explained when it was learned that one of the groups was significantly older than the other. In another study, the people with alleged psychiatric illnesses showed brain abnormalities that were entirely explained when* it was discovered that they were all on psychiatric drugs, and that the drugs were known to cause such abnormalities.*)

4. The idea that a functional scan gives an instant view of brain activity is false. The sorts of brain activity we're interested in (neuro-activity) is instant, happening in thousandths of a second. A functional scan shows shifts in circulation, which, even where thought to be associated with brain activity, lag behind that activity by a few seconds (a few seconds being hundreds of times longer than the brain activity itself). In other words, this is a very crude view of the brain in action (if it is a view of brain activity, which is doubtful, since the relationship of shifts in blood circulation to brain activity are still not well understood).

5. The psychiatrists presenting these images to the public imply that we are looking at images of two brains, one normal, the other diseased. In fact, each image is a statistical average of many images. No one individual has either of these scans, and the averaging suggests clearer and more consistent differences that would not show up in individual scans. Individual scans (even assuming all the earlier points were handled) have far too much variability to be reliable for diagnosis. Where imaging studies compare groups of "normal" and "abnormal" brains, there is a large overlap between the groups. Many people alleged to be ADHD, for example, do not show the brain patterns claimed to be characteristic of ADHD.
On the Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories by Dean Blehert


----------



## eots

Studies have shown that Ritalin use in children increases chances of drug abuse and developing chronic drug dependency in adolescence [Mannuzza et al, 2003], and causes permanent brain damage in animals [Kuroda 2000] and humans [Breggin, 1990]. It has been conclusively shown to be the leading cause of increasing rates of drug-induced schizophrenia, depression, and bipolar disorder in children in North America [Breggin, 1999; Cherland & Fitzpatrick, 1999, Gilberg et al, 1997]. Yet unpublished study in China [Hui Xia pers. comm] indicate that long-term use of Ritalin in preschool years strongly correlates with dramatic decrease in academic performance.
Ritalin


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> but you clearly claimed there was lots of proof ADHD was an illness...so wheres the lots of proof you claim ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did?  I said lots of "proof?"
> 
> Find it.  Quote it.  Link it.
> 
> But you won't.  You can't.  You are either stupid or dishonest.
> 
> Morons like you cannot distinguish between "evidence" and "proof."  But you imagine you have any credibility when it comes to your uninformed opinions on any scientific topic?
> 
> Too funny, you id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . so where is your...lot of evidence ADHD  is an illness?
Click to expand...


Why even pretend to "ask?"  We both know (actually, all familiar with you know) that you would merely quibble it all away.

*Most* kids do not show the cluster of symptoms, you twit.  There are many, sadly, who do.  You are unable to see it or admit, but those facts alone qualify as a damn large amount of evidence.


----------



## Luissa

Wow! This thread has gotten serious.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did?  I said lots of "proof?"
> 
> Find it.  Quote it.  Link it.
> 
> But you won't.  You can't.  You are either stupid or dishonest.
> 
> Morons like you cannot distinguish between "evidence" and "proof."  But you imagine you have any credibility when it comes to your uninformed opinions on any scientific topic?
> 
> Too funny, you id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> . so where is your...lot of evidence ADHD  is an illness?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why even pretend to "ask?"  We both know (actually, all familiar with you know) that you would merely quibble it all away.
> 
> *Most* kids do not show the cluster of symptoms, you twit.  There are many, sadly, who do.  You are unable to see it or admit, but those facts alone qualify as a damn large amount of evidence.
Click to expand...


ok so you have no such evidence...other than, to you children that interrupt and cant pay attention in school or fidget are displaying symptoms and it constitutes evidence of a brain disorder the requires methanphemates


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbfA--AyBfE]Psychiatric victim's parents speak out - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Samson

Intense said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, a drug with side effects.
> 
> No shit, Sherlock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want to live with those side effects?
Click to expand...


Well first I'd need to take RITALIN from a Doctor willing to be sued for malpractice.

If there was any credance to the moronic claim, then no physcian in his right mind would be perscribing RITILAN, and the FDA would pull it from the market.

However, given the fact that eots posted this, and has no credability, I wouldn't be too concerned if a reputable doctor perscribed this medication, and followed up (like they all do) with regular examinations, blood work, or whatever other proceedures are necessary.


----------



## Samson

Luissa said:


> Wow! This thread has gotten serious.



Yeah.

You're annoying.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, a drug with side effects.
> 
> No shit, Sherlock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want to live with those side effects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well first I'd need to take RITALIN from a Doctor willing to be sued for malpractice.
> 
> If there was any credance to the moronic claim, then no physcian in his right mind would be perscribing RITILAN, and the FDA would pull it from the market.
> 
> 
> 
> However, given the fact that eots posted this, and has no credability, I wouldn't be too concerned if a reputable doctor perscribed this medication, and followed up (like they all do) with regular examinations, blood work, or whatever other proceedures are necessary.
Click to expand...


anti -depressants are no more effective than a placebo and have been banned in Europe..but they are still handed here out like they are candy...drug companies have paid out billions in claims for psych drugs


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHolKz6SZDs]Eli Lilly $1.42 Billion Zyprexa Settlement - Stephen Sheller on Fox News - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxWDsgBx4rk]FDA Whistleblower Spying Scandal - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> *On The Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories*
> 
> On the Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories by Dean Blehert



"Dean Blehert" wrote an essay and put it online.

Who the fuck is Dean Blehert?



I present information from the World Health Organization and Center for Disease Control, and eots posts an essay written by a high school junior.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *On The Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories*
> 
> On the Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories by Dean Blehert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Dean Blehert" wrote an essay and put it online.
> 
> Who the fuck is Dean Blehert?
> 
> 
> 
> I present information from the World Health Organization and Center for Disease Control, and eots posts an essay written by a high school junior.
Click to expand...


he is citing doctor of psychatry.Dr. Grace Jackson is a board certified psychiatrist who graduated summa cum laude from California Lutheran University with a Bachelor of Arts in political science and a Bachelor of Science in biology, as well as a Master's Degree in Public Administration.  She earned her Medical Degree from the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in 1996 and completed her internship and residency while in the U.S. Navy.

http://www.iraresoul.com/jacksonbio.html


----------



## eots

*your wonderful FDA*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxWDsgBx4rk]FDA Whistleblower Spying Scandal - YouTube[/ame]
*
Your trusted drug companies*


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> but you clearly claimed there was lots of proof ADHD was an illness...so wheres the lots of proof you claim ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Mental Illnesses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Is ADHD associated with other disorders?*
> 
> Yes. In fact, symptoms like those of ADHD are often mistaken for or found occurring with other neurological, biological and behavioral disorders.​
> 
> *Oppositional defiant disorder.* Nearly half of all children with ADHD (especially boys) tend to also have_oppositional defiant disorder_, characterized by negative, hostile and defiant behavior.
> *Conduct disorder.*_ Conduct disorder_ (marked by aggression towards people and animals, destruction of property, deceitfulness or theft and serious rule-breaking) is found to co-occur in an estimated 40 percent of children with ADHD.
> *Anxiety and depression. *Approximately one-fourth of children with ADHD (mostly younger children and boys) also experience _anxiety_ and _depression_.
> *Communication/learning disability.* At least 25 percent of children with ADHD have some type of_communication/learning disability_.
> *Tourette's syndrome. *There is additionally a correlation between _Tourette&#8217;s syndrome_, a neurobiological disorder characterized by motor and vocal tics and ADHD&#8212;a small percentage of those with ADHD also have Tourette&#8217;s, but at least half of those with Tourette&#8217;s also have ADHD.
> *Bipolar disorder.* Research is also beginning to show that ADHD-like symptoms are sometimes actually manifestations of childhood-onset bipolar disorder.
> *What causes ADHD?*
> 
> First of all, it is important to realize that ADHD is _not_ caused by dysfunctional parenting, nor is it due to a lack of intelligence or discipline.​
> 
> *Biological basis.* Strong scientific evidence supports the conclusion that ADHD is a biologically based disorder. *Recently, National Institute of Mental Health researchers using PET scans have observed significantly lower metabolic activity in regions of the brain controlling attention, social judgment and movement in those with ADHD than in those without the disorder.* Biological studies also suggest that children with ADHD may have lower levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine in critical regions of the brain.
> *Toxins. *Other *theories suggest* that cigarette, alcohol and drug use during pregnancy or exposure to environmental toxins such as lead may be linked to the development of ADHD.
> *Genetic basis*. Research* also suggests *a strong genetic basis to ADHD&#8212;the disorder tends to run in families. In addition, research has shown that certain forms of genes related to the dopamine neurotransmitter system are linked to increased likelihood of the disorder.
> While early theories suggested that ADHD may be caused by minor head injuries or brain ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> these studies are not valid because the children scanned where already subjected to brain damaging ritalian
Click to expand...




Evidence? 0

Credability = 0


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *On The Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories*
> 
> On the Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories by Dean Blehert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Dean Blehert" wrote an essay and put it online.
> 
> Who the fuck is Dean Blehert?
> 
> 
> 
> I present information from the World Health Organization and Center for Disease Control, and eots posts an essay written by a high school junior.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he is a doctor of nero-science
Click to expand...


"Nero-science?"

Maybe YOU are the high school junior.

Dean Blehert is a POET!

Words & Pictures, Site of Pam and Dean Blehert


----------



## eots

samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> "dean blehert" wrote an essay and put it online.
> 
> Who the fuck is dean blehert?
> 
> 
> 
> I present information from the world health organization and center for disease control, and eots posts an essay written by a high school junior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he is a doctor of nero-science
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "nero-science?"
> 
> maybe you are the high school junior.
> 
> Dean blehert is a poet!
> 
> words & pictures, site of pam and dean blehert
Click to expand...


i corrected the post the information he was citing was from a board certified psychiatrist and i posted her link.


----------



## eots

*Grace E. Jackson, MD *
Abstract:  Presumably in recognition of the fact that there is no chemical test which can 
be used to diagnose any of the alleged mental illnesses, journalists and medical opinion 
leaders have proclaimed that brain scans &#8211; particularly, functional imaging studies -- can 
be used to confirm the presence of psychiatric disease.  Although the scientific record 
contradicts these assertions, the news media have ignored a critical evaluation of what, 
exactly, the new technologies purport to explain.  The article which follows presents a 
critical analysis of the theoretical, practical, and philosophical limitations of the
functional neuroimaging modalities (fMRI, PET, SPECT), and why these methods are 
not used outside of the research setting in the clinical practice of psychiatry today. 

http://psychrights.org/articles/GEJacksonMDBrainScanCuriousConsensus.pdf


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is a doctor of nero-science
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "nero-science?"
> 
> maybe you are the high school junior.
> 
> Dean blehert is a poet!
> 
> words & pictures, site of pam and dean blehert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i corrected the post the information he was citing was from a board certified psychiatrist and i posted her link.
Click to expand...


The poet's reference from the psychiatrist ONLY supported the assertation that _*functional imaging technologies addressed in her paper *_cannot reliably predict the presence of psychopathology.

She mentions nothing about whether or not other methods can reliably predict the presence of ADHD.

Stick to videos.


----------



## eots

samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> nami: National alliance on mental illness | mental illnesses
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> these studies are not valid because the children scanned where already subjected to brain damaging ritalian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence? 0
> 
> credability = 0
Click to expand...


the lack of credibility clearly lays with your drug companies ..fda ..and government bureaucracy.


----------



## eots

ADHD: Is Objective Diagnosis Possible?
C. Thomas Gualtieri, MD and Lynda G. Johnson, PhD


Although attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is one of the most common cognitive disorders, the usual diagnostic procedures pursued by psychiatrists, neurologists, pediatricians, and family practitioners are based largely,* if not exclusively, on subjective assessments of perceived behavior. *The recommended approaches to ADHD diagnosis are reviewed, first from the perspective of the various expert panels, and then from the research literature upon which those recommendations are based. The authors agree that ADHD is a clinical diagnosis, and that the assessment of subjective reports can be systematic.

ADHD: Is Objective Diagnosis Possible?


----------



## eots

experts say the findings of some doctors using these techniques have not been made available for the scrutiny of the scientific community and therefore have not been duplicated by the research of others. This duplication is a basic criterion of scientific validity. A few mainstream doctors give the SPECT only a qualified approval using it only about 1 or 2 percent of the time and then only for patients involving head injury, a prior seizure disorder, or an infectious disease that may have damaged the brain.

How Good Is A Brain Scan For ADD ADHD?


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> these studies are not valid because the children scanned where already subjected to brain damaging ritalian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence? 0
> 
> credability = 0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the lack of credibility clearly lays with your drug companies ..fda ..and government bureaucracy.
Click to expand...



Find another poet's blog to support your argument


----------



## eots

provide a shred of evidence that there is any valid diagnostic test for ADHD...LOL


----------



## eots

samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence? 0
> 
> credability = 0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the lack of credibility clearly lays with your drug companies ..fda ..and government bureaucracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> find another poet's blog to support your argument
Click to expand...


funny you like to comment on this but leave the charges against your sources the fda and e li lilly undressed


----------



## eots




----------



## eots




----------



## Liability

Absolut Vodka: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Absolute id-eot:


----------



## eots




----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js2JC9tkM0g]ADHD drug linked to death in children - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57sX1bKpDs8]CRACKED - The Story of ADHD & ADDERALL - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## gxnelson




----------



## koshergrl

Oh bull. They think there MAY be a genetic component because it appears to run in family.

Along with substance abuse/addiction and other issues. So again, they aren't sure. They can see similarities in brain function in adhd kids...but again, were they born with it, or did it develop over time?

Nobody knows. There are no gene markers for adhd.


----------



## Truthmatters

it could be pollutants.


----------



## koshergrl

It could be a lot of things.

It's a combination, I think, of a variety of things..genetics, environment, diet, and parenting.


----------



## koshergrl

"Boys score as well as or better than girls on most standardized tests, yet they are far less likely to get good grades, take advanced classes or attend college. Why? *A **study** coming out this week in The **Journal of Human Resources** gives an important answer. Teachers of classes as early as kindergarten factor good behavior into grades  and girls, as a rule, comport themselves far better than boys*."

Schools are penalizing boys for male behavior...which is what ADHD is. Boys who act like boys are medicated. Long and short of it. Boys who aren't readily adaptable to long hours indoors, with limited physical activity are medicated.

Go figure.

"
The scholars attributed this misalignment to differences in noncognitive skills: attentiveness, persistence, eagerness to learn, the ability to sit still and work independently. As most parents know, girls tend to develop these skills earlier and more naturally than boys."

"If they are inattentive, obstreperous and distracting to their teachers and peers, thats their problem. After all, the ability to regulate ones impulses, delay gratification, sit still and pay close attention are the cornerstones of success in school and in the work force. "

The Boys at the Back - NYTimes.com


----------



## eots

gxnelson said:


>



lol a cartoon...there in no valid test for  ADHD


----------



## eots

gxnelson said:


>



who is responsible for this disinformation ..what site did it come from there is no link


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> gxnelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who is responsible for this disinformation ..what site did it come from there is no link
Click to expand...


Id-eot:

Who is responsible for the claim in that "poster" is a different question than your phony propaganda "question."

It is not disinformation if it is true, you -- id-eot.  

BBC News - New study claims ADHD 'has a genetic link'

The CONCLUSION offered by some of the researchers may have been overstated.  It is not "proof" of a genetic link.  It is some interesting EVIDENCE of it, however.  See, http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ferguswalsh/2010/09/the_genetics_of_adhd.html


----------



## koshergrl

I would be interested in hearing what the incidence of "ADHD" is in other countries, that aren't so quick to medicate:

"....we can follow the example of the British, the Canadians and the Australians. They have openly addressed the problem of male underachievement. They are not indulging boys&#8217; tendency to be inattentive. Instead, they are experimenting with programs to help them become more organized, focused and engaged. These include more boy-friendly reading assignments (science fiction, fantasy, sports, espionage, battles); more recess (where boys can engage in rough-and-tumble as a respite from classroom routine); campaigns to encourage male literacy; more single-sex classes; and more male teachers (and female teachers interested in the pedagogical challenges boys pose)."

Why boys are falling behind and why we have to fix it « Hot Air


----------



## Liability

A Penn State Medical Center "ADAM" discussion provides more information which disputes the "ASSurances" of id-eots. 



> Causes
> Brain Structure
> 
> Research using advanced imaging techniques shows there is a difference in the size of certain parts of the brain in children with ADHD compared to children who do not have ADHD. The areas showing change include the prefrontal cortex, the caudate nucleus and globus pallidus, and the cerebellum.
> Brain Chemicals
> 
> Abnormal activity of certain brain chemicals in the prefrontal cortex may contribute to ADHD. The chemicals dopamine and norepinephrine are of special interest. Dopamine and norepinephrine are neurotransmitters (chemical messengers in the brain) that affect both mental and emotional functioning. They also play a role in the "reward response." This response occurs when a person experiences pleasure in response to certain stimuli (such as food or love). Studies suggest that increased levels of the brain chemicals glutamate, glutamine, and GABA -- collectively called Glx -- interact with the pathways that transport dopamine and norepinephrine.
> Genetic Factors
> 
> Genetic factors most likely play a role in ADHD. The relatives of ADHD children (both boys and girls) have much higher rates of ADHD, antisocial, mood, anxiety, and substance abuse disorders than the families of non-ADHD children. Some twin studies report that up to 90% of children with a diagnosis of ADHD shared it with their twin.
> 
> Most of the research on the underlying genetic mechanisms targets the neurotransmitter dopamine. Variations in genes that regulate specific dopamine receptors have been identified in a high proportion of people with addictions and ADHD.



EXCERPTED from:  Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - Penn State Hershey Medical Center


----------



## koshergrl

"MAY" and 'MOST LIKELY".


----------



## Liability

koshergrl said:


> "MAY" and 'MOST LIKELY".



And?


----------



## koshergrl

It's a guess. By the person who wrote the article.


----------



## Liability

koshergrl said:


> It's a guess. By the person who wrote the article.




No it's not just a "guess."

It is a tentative conclusion.  It may even qualify as a working hypothesis based on data, observation, logic.

The data shows a possible (maybe even likely) connection.


----------



## High_Gravity

My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?



That's the thrust of id-eot's "thesis:"

It's not ADD or ADHD.  It's all just "boys will be boys."


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thrust of id-eot's "thesis:"
> 
> It's not ADD or ADHD.  It's all just "boys will be boys."
Click to expand...


Some people told my ex that, he's just being a boy. If all boys are disruptive, anxious, cry at awkward moments, cannot remember what you told them 5 seconds ago and just troubled, we are all fucked. Wait until those boys become men.


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thrust of id-eot's "thesis:"
> 
> It's not ADD or ADHD.  It's all just "boys will be boys."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some people told my ex that, he's just being a boy. If all boys are disruptive, anxious, cry at awkward moments, cannot remember what you told them 5 seconds ago and just troubled, we are all fucked. Wait until those boys become men.
Click to expand...


It's troubling.

I wonder how many kids in the past suffered with some form or variant of ADD or ADHD and were simply dismissed as badly behaved kids or miscreants or knuckleheads?

ON THE OTHER HAND, if one reads between the lines, a PART of what koshergrl and id-eots may be trying to say is that the diagnosis can be invalid.

It MIGHT be that the "diagnosis" is made too freely these days.  And it is even possible that sometimes it is just a matter of "convenience" in order to prescribe drugs to serve as chemical babysitters.

But even so, to deny that there are ANY actual, real, genuine and legitimate cases of ADD/ADHD is just mindless.  Coming from koshergrl, it's a bit surprising.  Coming from a perpetual conspiracy nut-job like id-eots, it is just standard.


----------



## koshergrl

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thrust of id-eot's "thesis:"
> 
> It's not ADD or ADHD. It's all just "boys will be boys."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some people told my ex that, he's just being a boy. If all boys are disruptive, anxious, cry at awkward moments, cannot remember what you told them 5 seconds ago and just troubled, we are all fucked. Wait until those boys become men.
Click to expand...

 
How odd that most of these boys come from homes in which there isn't a solid male influence.

Oh well. Just medicate them. That'll fix it.


----------



## High_Gravity

koshergrl said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thrust of id-eot's "thesis:"
> 
> It's not ADD or ADHD. It's all just "boys will be boys."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people told my ex that, he's just being a boy. If all boys are disruptive, anxious, cry at awkward moments, cannot remember what you told them 5 seconds ago and just troubled, we are all fucked. Wait until those boys become men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *How odd that most of these boys come from homes in which there isn't a solid male influence.*
> 
> Oh well. Just medicate them. That'll fix it.
Click to expand...


Hmm, good point KG.


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some people told my ex that, he's just being a boy. If all boys are disruptive, anxious, cry at awkward moments, cannot remember what you told them 5 seconds ago and just troubled, we are all fucked. Wait until those boys become men.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *How odd that most of these boys come from homes in which there isn't a solid male influence.*
> 
> Oh well. Just medicate them. That'll fix it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, good point KG.
Click to expand...


No it's not, actually.

What support exists for the claim that "most" of the boys come from homes without a solid male influence?


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> *How odd that most of these boys come from homes in which there isn't a solid male influence.*
> 
> Oh well. Just medicate them. That'll fix it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, good point KG.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not, actually.
> 
> What support exists for the claim that "most" of the boys come from homes without a solid male influence?
Click to expand...


Well in the case of my ex girlfriends son it was true, the father pretty much abandoned them when the kid was born, and he himself has a history of ADHD, dyslexia and chronic drug use, meth in particular. Boy looks just like the father too, to a t.


----------



## Liability

High_Gravity said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, good point KG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not, actually.
> 
> What support exists for the claim that "most" of the boys come from homes without a solid male influence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well in the case of my ex girlfriends son it was true, the father pretty much abandoned them when the kid was born, and he himself has a history of ADHD, dyslexia and chronic drug use, meth in particular. Boy looks just like the father too, to a t.
Click to expand...


That's anecdotal evidence that some boys with ADD/ADHD have a fatherless home.

But I don't see any support for the contention that the majority of boys diagnosed with ADD/ADHD come from homes lacking in a male influence.


----------



## gxnelson

koshergrl said:


> It could be a lot of things.
> 
> It's a combination, I think, of a variety of things..genetics, environment, diet, and parenting.



I am in strong favor of genetics. 
Environment: The place where I grew up was overly environmentaly friendly it seemed. Also, home life, I wasn't exposed to anything particularly dangerous. 
Diet: I have always eaten healthy. I eat a lot of sweets, but a lot of people with ADHD do, I forget the reasoning, but take it or leave it, it's true. 
Parenting: My mother was a god send. She put up with a lot of my BS when I was a teenager. She was very patient, but also didn't allow things like video games or tons of TV, which many people say "cause" ADHD. 
Genetics: I was adopted, so my parents may have had it but I'll never know. That's the reason I am in strong favor of genetics.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> A Penn State Medical Center "ADAM" discussion provides more information which disputes the "ASSurances" of id-eots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Causes
> Brain Structure
> 
> Research using advanced imaging techniques shows there is a difference in the size of certain parts of the brain in children with ADHD compared to children who do not have ADHD. The areas showing change include the prefrontal cortex, the caudate nucleus and globus pallidus, and the cerebellum.
> Brain Chemicals
> 
> Abnormal activity of certain brain chemicals in the prefrontal cortex may contribute to ADHD. The chemicals dopamine and norepinephrine are of special interest. Dopamine and norepinephrine are neurotransmitters (chemical messengers in the brain) that affect both mental and emotional functioning. They also play a role in the "reward response." This response occurs when a person experiences pleasure in response to certain stimuli (such as food or love). Studies suggest that increased levels of the brain chemicals glutamate, glutamine, and GABA -- collectively called Glx -- interact with the pathways that transport dopamine and norepinephrine.
> Genetic Factors
> 
> Genetic factors most likely play a role in ADHD. The relatives of ADHD children (both boys and girls) have much higher rates of ADHD, antisocial, mood, anxiety, and substance abuse disorders than the families of non-ADHD children. Some twin studies report that up to 90% of children with a diagnosis of ADHD shared it with their twin.
> 
> Most of the research on the underlying genetic mechanisms targets the neurotransmitter dopamine. Variations in genes that regulate specific dopamine receptors have been identified in a high proportion of people with addictions and ADHD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EXCERPTED from:  Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - Penn State Hershey Medical Center
Click to expand...


*The researchers stressed that there is no single gene behind ADHD, and the work is at too early a stage to lead to any test for the disorder.*


----------



## High_Gravity

Liability said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it's not, actually.
> 
> What support exists for the claim that "most" of the boys come from homes without a solid male influence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well in the case of my ex girlfriends son it was true, the father pretty much abandoned them when the kid was born, and he himself has a history of ADHD, dyslexia and chronic drug use, meth in particular. Boy looks just like the father too, to a t.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's anecdotal evidence that some boys with ADD/ADHD have a fatherless home.
> 
> But I don't see any support for the contention that the majority of boys diagnosed with ADD/ADHD come from homes lacking in a male influence.
Click to expand...


I guess DHS/Child support services would have that info? although this is difficult stuff to come by, alot of people don't even acknowledge their kids have issues to begin with.


----------



## eots

not to mention all kinds of personality traits and physical traits can be genetic this in no way qualifies them as a disorder or disease any more than having blues eyes ..it is a subjective and cultural judgement


----------



## eots

Three years ago, Mirko and Regina Ceska of Crawfordville, Florida, told former Gov. Charlie Crist their two adopted 12-year-olds had been prescribed 11 pills a day, including the powerful antipsychotic Seroquel, reported the Tampa Bay Times.
&#8220;These girls were overdosed and would fall asleep right in front of us several times a day,&#8221; Mirko Ceska told Crist at an &#8220;Explore Adoption Day&#8217;&#8217; event. &#8220;It seems to be a prerequisite for foster children to be on medication,&#8221; said Ceska, calling the pills &#8220;chemical restraint.&#8221;
The couple&#8217;s remarks came on the heels of the suicide of Gabriel Myers, a 7-year-old in Florida foster care who was prescribed psychiatric drugs, including Symbyax, not approved for children because of links to suicidal thinking. More than 15 percent of 20,000 foster care children in Florida are medicated, says the Times and doctors and case managers treating medicated 6- and 7-year-olds &#8220;routinely failed to complete legally required treatment plans, share information or properly document the prescribing of powerful psychiatric drugs.&#8221;

Shocking Reports of Overmedicated Foster Children Force Government Review


----------



## Liability

id-eots conflates the facts that (a) sometimes kids get over-prescribed meds and (b) even get  prescribed meds for the wrong reason WITH the notion that there is no such thing as ADD or ADHD.

id-eots is a simpleton.  No.  He's an id-eot.


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzvIq8WISUo]Don't Drug Them First - Children, ADHD & Drugs - Dr. Rapp - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> id-eots conflates the facts that (a) sometimes kids get over-prescribed meds and (b) even get  prescribed meds for the wrong reason WITH the notion that there is no such thing as ADD or ADHD.
> 
> id-eots is a simpleton.  No.  He's and id-eot.



*the facts are liarability  is there is no proof of an illness called ADHD..it is completely based on the subjective judgement of rather vague behavior
such as*

A child with ADHD *might:*

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others

CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD


The fact is that drug companies have on many occasions been found criminal responsible for falsifying studies and with holding harmful effects of drugs and promoting there use in children and have paid billions in damages


----------



## eots

*Antidepressant Ban for Kids Puts Pressure On U.S. / Canada*

he British government ban for use of all but one SSRI antidepressant drug in children and teens (Dec 10, 2003) is reverberating wherever these drugs are widely prescribed. The action was taken after an independent committee of experts examined the raw data from controlled clinical trials that had been conducted by these drugs' manufacturers. *The evidence shows that contrary to the claims made by their promoters, SSRIs are neither effective against depression in children, nor safe. The hazards posed by SSRIs--of which the most serious is self-harm and aggression toward others--had been detected during company controlled clinical trials, but the hazards were concealed--even in published reports in academic journals. Thus, doctors who prescribed the drugs and patients and families for whom they have been prescribed were kept in the dark.*
*Neither the leading experts in psychiatry nor officials of the FDA (or equivalents in the UK) noticed these suicide findings. A British journalist not trained in science readily detected the problem and brought it to public attention.*

* How do officials in the UK and US regulatory agencies explain their failure to protect children from hazardous drugs that are *no more effective than placebo? ** How do regulators explain their role in helping drug companies conceal the evidence by not even examining the efficacy and safety data from clinical trials submitted to them 7 years ago? * How do regulators explain their failure to read the published reports and to inform the public about findings of potential hazards? * How do regulators explain their f*ailure to request long-term studies to ensure that these problematic drugs don't pose irreversible damage?
*
*The regulatory agencies failed to examine the data even as a body of evidence accumulated from case reports of drug-induced adverse reactions.* Only after the manufacturers sought to obtain a marketing license for depressed children did the British authority convene an expert panel to examine the raw data from previous pediatric trials. On Dec. 11, Health Canada announced it will review the data as well. See: www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/print.cgi?/2003/12/12/Consumers/ssri031212

A two part article in the Canadian Sterling News Service reports that warnings by the British authority in June, prompted Canadian doctors to ask serious questions and to re-examine the wisdom of prescribing antidepressant drugs for children, inasmuch as *the evidence from clinical trials clearly shows that children may be helped equally by the placebo effect without the drug-related risks.
*
For example, Dr. Jane Garland, director of the mood disorders clinic at British Columbia Children's Hospital, and one of the investigators who tested SSRIs in clinical trials, put it this way: "As physicians, we want to be helpful, but we often suffer individually and collectively from a pharmacological imperative: If we have a drug, we feel compelled to prescribe it." Dr. Garland acknowledges, "We suffer from excessive therapeutic optimism."

But a re-examination of the data led her to conclude: "If it were ethical, placebo treatment would be the recommended first step. Alternatively, supplements such as omega-3 fatty acids could be plausible and inexpensive 'active' placebos."

Antidepressant Ban for Kids Puts Pressure On U.S. / Canada


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots conflates the facts that (a) sometimes kids get over-prescribed meds and (b) even get  prescribed meds for the wrong reason WITH the notion that there is no such thing as ADD or ADHD.
> 
> id-eots is a simpleton.  No.  He's and id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *the facts are liarability  is there is no proof of an illness called ADHD..it is completely based on the subjective judgement of rather vague behavior
> such as*
> 
> A child with ADHD *might:*
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD
> 
> 
> The fact is that drug companies have on many occasions been found criminal responsible for falsifying studies and with holding harmful effects of drugs and promoting there use in children and have paid billions in damages
Click to expand...


Your contention is not a fact.

You don't even have the ability to define the terms you use, id-eot.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots conflates the facts that (a) sometimes kids get over-prescribed meds and (b) even get  prescribed meds for the wrong reason WITH the notion that there is no such thing as ADD or ADHD.
> 
> id-eots is a simpleton.  No.  He's and id-eot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *the facts are liarability  is there is no proof of an illness called ADHD..it is completely based on the subjective judgement of rather vague behavior
> such as*
> 
> A child with ADHD *might:*
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD
> 
> 
> The fact is that drug companies have on many occasions been found criminal responsible for falsifying studies and with holding harmful effects of drugs and promoting there use in children and have paid billions in damages
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your contention is not a fact.
> 
> You don't even have the ability to define the terms you use, id-eot.
Click to expand...


blah blah blah huh what...lol...everything I posted and stated is a fact


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *the facts are liarability  is there is no proof of an illness called ADHD..it is completely based on the subjective judgement of rather vague behavior
> such as*
> 
> A child with ADHD *might:*
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD
> 
> 
> The fact is that drug companies have on many occasions been found criminal responsible for falsifying studies and with holding harmful effects of drugs and promoting there use in children and have paid billions in damages
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHolKz6SZDs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your contention is not a fact.
> 
> You don't even have the ability to define the terms you use, id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> blah blah blah huh what...lol...everything I posted and stated is a fact
Click to expand...


Nope.  Your opinions, no matter how firmly you hold them and believe them do not qualify as facts.


----------



## eots

*FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD

*FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others


*FACT*..Drug companies have a long history of  knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness  of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages


----------



## High_Gravity

eots said:


> *FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> *FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> *have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others*



So to you these behaviors in young boys are normal?


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> *FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> *FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> 
> *FACT*..Drug companies have a long history of  knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness  of drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damges



There ARE diagnostic tests for ADHD.  Whether or not they are "valid" is your mere opinion.

Many of the behaviors on the list are not even remotely "subjective."  They (like much of science) are things which can be identified , usually by a parent who knows the child pretty fucking well.   (Try to do some basic research on "scientific method" and note the importance of "observation," you fucking id-eot)

And, while it is true (and thus a factoid)  that SOME drug companies engage in shitty behavior, that little factoid has nothing to do with the argument you present, you complete fucking id-eot.


----------



## thanatos144

High_Gravity said:


> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?



You did. All boys did. We are figidy creatures where girls are not. You can not judge both boys and girls the same way we are not the same.  It is more then just our genitals that are different.


----------



## eots

High_Gravity said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> *FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> *have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So to you these behaviors in young boys are normal?
Click to expand...


yes they are basically normal behavior for all young creatures from puppies to children..and the outrageous epidemic level of ADHD diagnosis only serves to hi-lite that fact


----------



## High_Gravity

eots said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> *FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> *have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So to you these behaviors in young boys are normal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes they are basically normal behavior for all young creatures from puppies to children..and the outrageous epidemic level of ADHD diagnosis only serves to hi-lite that fact
Click to expand...


Hmm I don't know about that, I've seen plenty of children who don't behave that way. My ex girlfriends son was one of the few kids in his class who behaved that way and stopped other children from learning, if all kids acted like this elementary schools would be like looney bins.


----------



## High_Gravity

thanatos144 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You did. All boys did. We are figidy creatures where girls are not. You can not judge both boys and girls the same way we are not the same.  It is more then just our genitals that are different.
Click to expand...


I was disruptive in class as a young boy? I used to get awards for being well behaved.


----------



## koshergrl

There is a huge range of *normal* behavior among kids that age. Particularly boys. Huge. And a lot of behavior is linked directly to how well behaviors are handled...if a mom isn't good about providing positive, energy burning activities for her son, if she isn't able to pay close attention to him and carefully guide him, and head off problems as they pop up, then the chances of him developing all sorts of odd and disenchanting behaviors increase. 

I have a boy who jumps constantly. He bounces. He climbs. He's 9 years old, and I still have to tell him 100x a day not to jump into the armchair, not to climb over the couch, not to stand on the dining room booth, not to jump up and down while listening to directives or watching television or playing a game.

That behavior is a really obvious, really difficult one to deal with because it draws the attention of people Teachers get irritated, family members are aghast. If I took even that one behavior, and coupled it with a couple other behaviors and presented them to a doctor, I'd get a scrip right there on the spot.

But here's the thing...his brain, though different from yours or mine, doesn't need to be doped. That's not going to cure his jitters. It's just going to mask it...and perhaps result in something worse, down the road. 

I'm exhausted and have been since these kids were born. Between physically managing him, and dealing with my daughter's weird little issues (which cause all sorts of difficulties...but which are ALSO are her strongest character attributes), trust me, I'd LOVE to give everyone a dose of something so we could maybe sleep for a week.

But I'm not going to. Because I want them to be successful, and I am convinced that the way to success for difficult children is to teach them to navigate life by making the most of what they have, and learning, by trial and error, to control negative impulses..ON THEIR OWN. 

Also nervous systems mature at different rates. My son is 9 but his ability to control the impulse to jump and bounce, for whatever reason, is probably at about age 6. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him. It is part of what makes him unique. We cope with it...and all those coping strategies will come in very handy when he hits adolescence and hormones start to rage and his impulses take him somewhere else.

There is no "normal" for kids, I think is what people need to get through their heads. And *normal* for boys can be all over the charts, and looks vastly different than *normal* for girls...and we need to get away from the mindset, a holdover from the 19th century, that little boys who don't *behave* should be drugged.


----------



## High_Gravity

koshergrl said:


> There is a huge range of *normal* behavior among kids that age. Particularly boys. Huge.



I'll take your word for it.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> *FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> 
> *FACT*..Drug companies have a long history of  knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness  of drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damges
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There ARE diagnostic tests for ADHD.  Whether or not they are "valid" is your mere opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sorry clown but there is not one single test that is considered valid and no professional in the field that makes that claim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many of the behaviors on the list are not even remotely "subjective."  They (like much of science) are things which can be identified
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> talks too much is not subjective_ ?._..seems to daydream i_s not subjective ?..list one so called symptom listed in the DSM  for ADHD that is not subjective
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , usually by a parent who knows the child pretty fucking well.   (Try to do some basic research on "scientific method" and note the importance of "observation," you fucking id-eot)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol...you have violated every rule of scientific method ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, while it is true (and thus a factoid)  that SOME drug companies engage in shitty behavior, that little factoid has nothing to do with the argument you present, you complete fucking id-eot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it is when people say things like ..the FDA  would do something...or drug studies say and government web sites say..or its a conspiracy theory that drug companies promote the drugging of children based on knowingly false information
Click to expand...


----------



## Liability

id-eots, I am sorry you're an assclown, too.

You don't even know what a fact is.  When challenged you waffle.

Is your name (irl) John Fuckin' Kerry by any chance?


----------



## eots

High_Gravity said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You did. All boys did. We are figidy creatures where girls are not. You can not judge both boys and girls the same way we are not the same.  It is more then just our genitals that are different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was disruptive in class as a young boy? I used to get awards for being well behaved.
Click to expand...


so you where singled out and therefore ..out of the norm..correct


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> id-eots, I am sorry you're an assclown, too.
> 
> You don't even know what a fact is.  When challenged you waffle.
> 
> Is your name (irl) John Fuckin' Kerry by any chance?



lol you  challenged nothing you make dumb meaningless statements like this
all strawman..or you post some silly picture..your a complete joke


----------



## High_Gravity

eots said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did. All boys did. We are figidy creatures where girls are not. You can not judge both boys and girls the same way we are not the same.  It is more then just our genitals that are different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was disruptive in class as a young boy? I used to get awards for being well behaved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you where singled out and therefore ..out of the norm..correct
Click to expand...


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots, I am sorry you're an assclown, too.
> 
> You don't even know what a fact is.  When challenged you waffle.
> 
> Is your name (irl) John Fuckin' Kerry by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol you  challenged nothing you make dumb meaningless statements like this
> all strawman..or you post some silly picture..your a complete joke
Click to expand...


I challenged your empty and meaningless spew.  I even refuted it.

You, of course, don't have the man sack to admit when you're proved to be wrong, as you were, you hapless id-eot.

Hurry up and post an important YouTube to "prove" how right you imagine you are, you pathetic joke assclown hack motherfucker.

With all due respect,

your pal,

Liability.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> id-eots, I am sorry you're an assclown, too.
> 
> You don't even know what a fact is.  When challenged you waffle.
> 
> Is your name (irl) John Fuckin' Kerry by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol you  challenged nothing you make dumb meaningless statements like this
> all strawman..or you post some silly picture..your a complete joke
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I challenged your empty and meaningless spew.  I even refuted it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really must of missed that part care to link to it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You, of course, don't have the man sack to admit when you're proved to be wrong, as you were, you hapless id-eot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> proven wrong about what exactly ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hurry up and post an important YouTube to "prove" how right you imagine you are, you pathetic joke assclown hack motherfucker.
> 
> With all due respect,
> 
> your pal,
> 
> Liability
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what a sore loser...
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

It's kind of funny that this thread appears to have attracted many of the adult adhd sufferers, lol.


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> * * * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol you  challenged nothing you make dumb meaningless statements like this
> all strawman..or you post some silly picture..your a complete joke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really must of missed that part care to link to it ?
> 
> 
> 
> proven wrong about what exactly ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hurry up and post an important YouTube to "prove" how right you imagine you are, you pathetic joke assclown hack motherfucker.
> 
> With all due respect,
> 
> your pal,
> 
> Liability
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what a sore loser...
Click to expand...


Wow.  You are clueless on the quote function, aren't you, you id-eot?  Yes.  You are.

And I suppose you DID "miss" the part where I challenged your absurd contentions.  Either that or you just have zero integrity when it comes to admitting it.

And I can't be a sore loser, you fucking id-eot, since between the two of us, you are the only one chowing done on losing.


----------



## eots

koshergrl said:


> It's kind of funny that this thread appears to have attracted many of the adult adhd sufferers, lol.



liarability certainly doesn't play very nice with the other kids thats for sure...


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> * * * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol you  challenged nothing you make dumb meaningless statements like this
> all strawman..or you post some silly picture..your a complete joke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really must of missed that part care to link to it ?
> 
> 
> 
> proven wrong about what exactly ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hurry up and post an important YouTube to "prove" how right you imagine you are, you pathetic joke assclown hack motherfucker.
> 
> With all due respect,
> 
> your pal,
> 
> Liability
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what a sore loser...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.  You are clueless on the quote function, aren't you, you id-eot?  Yes.  You are.
> 
> And I suppose you DID "miss" the part where I challenged your absurd contentions.  Either that or you just have zero integrity when it comes to admitting it.
> 
> And I can't be a sore loser, you fucking id-eot, since between the two of us, you are the only one chowing done on losing.
Click to expand...

well please do link to what exactly you refuted...or do you like to pretend you are the riddler or something ?


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> * * * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really must of missed that part care to link to it ?
> 
> 
> 
> proven wrong about what exactly ?
> 
> 
> 
> what a sore loser...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.  You are clueless on the quote function, aren't you, you id-eot?  Yes.  You are.
> 
> And I suppose you DID "miss" the part where I challenged your absurd contentions.  Either that or you just have zero integrity when it comes to admitting it.
> 
> And I can't be a sore loser, you fucking id-eot, since between the two of us, you are the only one chowing done on losing.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well please do link to what exactly you refuted...or do you like to pretend you are the riddler or something ?
Click to expand...



No, you id-eot.

Go back and read.

It can't be THAT hard for you.


----------



## eots

*FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD

*FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others


*FACT..*Drug companies have a long history of knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages
__________________


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's kind of funny that this thread appears to have attracted many of the adult adhd sufferers, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Liability] certainly doesn't play very nice with the other kids thats for sure...
Click to expand...


I don't play with insufferable bleating asshat morons like you, id-eots.

I just show you up as being the pompous, ignorant, arrogant twat you are.

. . . and then, it's time to move along.

Now try to do something utterly unique in your posting history.  Try to be right about -- almost anything.


----------



## thanatos144

High_Gravity said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> My ex girlfriends son had ADHD, he was disruptive in class, hyper active, would get anxious in certain situations and just could not pay attention. So if ADHD doesn't exist, her son was perfectly normal? boys are supposed to act like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You did. All boys did. We are figidy creatures where girls are not. You can not judge both boys and girls the same way we are not the same.  It is more then just our genitals that are different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was disruptive in class as a young boy? I used to get awards for being well behaved.
Click to expand...


the exception?


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> *FACT*...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> *FACT*..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> 
> *FACT..*Drug companies have a long history of knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages
> __________________



Still false.  And the next time you cut and paste ^ your id-eot post, it will continue to be wrong then, too.


----------



## eots

liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's kind of funny that this thread appears to have attracted many of the adult adhd sufferers, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [liability] certainly doesn't play very nice with the other kids thats for sure...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i don't play with insufferable bleating asshat morons like you, id-eots.
> 
> I just show you up as being the pompous, ignorant, arrogant twat you are.
> 
> . . . And then, it's time to move along.
> 
> Now try to do something utterly unique in your posting history.  Try to be right about -- almost anything.
Click to expand...


good...run along now...


----------



## eots

liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *fact*...there is no valid diagnostic test for adhd
> 
> *fact*..adhd is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> 
> *fact..*drug companies have a long history of knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages
> __________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still false.  And the next time you cut and paste ^ your id-eot post, it will continue to be wrong then, too.
Click to expand...


lol...what a silly man he thinks if he simply says _false_ he has.. _refuted your claims_


----------



## thanatos144

You two having your pissing match is amusing. Still I would love to know why  anyone would first put a child on amphetamines instead of actually taking the time to teach the boy self control...


----------



## koshergrl

Single parents and lazy teachers, who think all boys from preschool on up should act like 13 year old girls. That's the long and short of it.


----------



## Luissa

Samson said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! This thread has gotten serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> You're annoying.
Click to expand...


I am annoying?


----------



## thanatos144

koshergrl said:


> Single parents and lazy teachers, who think all boys from preschool on up should act like 13 year old girls. That's the long and short of it.



My mom was one of those.....Thus why i was on Ritalin for so long....I stopped taking it my self. I learned to control myself .....I think given time 98% of the kids on that shit could be taught to control themselves..... Being doped up like that is no way for a kid to live....I know this personally. I also have personally seen the pain on parents when these drugs kill a child and dammit they do kill them. These drugs are damn dangerous. They are damn dangerous in prescribed dosages. 

The problem is they work....They do what they say they will ... They will make a boy stay still....Of course he feels completely like a zombie and cant control anything.....They dont even have any genuine spontaneity...You have no desire to do much of anything....You dont even want to eat..... Play ball????? Naw dont want to exert your self..... Run around? No not feeling it.... Think independently????? Naw rather just do as I am told....

Thats what they dont tell you.You are very malleable when doped up like this.


----------



## thanatos144

Luissa said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! This thread has gotten serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> You're annoying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am annoying?
Click to expand...


Yea he apparently doesn't like having his opinions challenged....


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *fact*...there is no valid diagnostic test for adhd
> 
> *fact*..adhd is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others
> 
> 
> *fact..*drug companies have a long history of knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages
> __________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still false.  And the next time you cut and paste ^ your id-eot post, it will continue to be wrong then, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> lol...what a silly man he thinks if he simply says _false_ he has.. _refuted your claims_
Click to expand...


^ what a stupid twat.  He thinks if he labels his ignorant vapid opinion as "fact" that it somehow becomes a fact.


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> [liability] certainly doesn't play very nice with the other kids thats for sure...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't play with insufferable bleating asshat morons like you, id-eots.
> 
> I just show you up as being the pompous, ignorant, arrogant twat you are.
> 
> . . . And then, it's time to move along.
> 
> Now try to do something utterly unique in your posting history.  Try to be right about -- almost anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> good...run along now...
Click to expand...


No no.  I will stick around to continue to expose your stupidity and numerous errors, especially when you attempt to label your non factual claims as being "factual."  I enjoy exposing the fraud you are as the stupid id-eot you show yourself to be.

You, however, may feel free to scamper off.


----------



## koshergrl

Luissa said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow! This thread has gotten serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> You're annoying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am annoying?
Click to expand...


Well that's what your avatar says...


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> still false.  And the next time you cut and paste ^ your id-eot post, it will continue to be wrong then, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol...what a silly man he thinks if he simply says _false_ he has.. _refuted your claims_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ^ what a stupid twat.  He thinks if he labels his ignorant vapid opinion as "fact" that it somehow becomes a fact.
Click to expand...


its pretty clear for anyone reading this thread that this post represents your level of debate which is nothing more than personal insults without a single factual reference or link


----------



## Mr. H.

eots said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most sufferers of Schizophrenia can't make rational decisions. Certainly not when they are off their meds.
> I've acted as my younger brother's court-appointed guardian for the past 20 years. He's been doing great these last few years but oh man has he had his moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once someone has taken anti-psychotics its a almost sure bet they will go nuts on a sudden withdraw..then this perpetuates the belief the medications are required and without them the person would be in psychosis. going off medications should be done slowly under a doctors care
Click to expand...


I don't think weaning a bi-polar from meds would result in behavior any different from going cold turky. Or cold turducken either.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.


*
I would get a 2nd opinion.
*
THey hand out adderal and similar drugs like candy these days.

My brother was on it through high school and college and into the workforce. The doctor kept upping his dosage until he was at the maximum legally allowed dose. For at least the last several years he was prescribed it, the doctor did nothing to reassess my brother, to determine if he still "needed" the drug - he just kept upping his dose and their once a month "sessions" involved just shooting the shit. 

My brother eventually went psychotic. He believed the NYPD were conspiring to frame him for murder. He got off the adderal for a while, his "doctor" dropped him. His paranoid delusions persist to this day, and he's back on the drug through a different doctor, albeit a smaller dosage. 

I would be _*extremely cautious*_ about putting your child on these kinds of drugs. It could set him up for a life time addiction disorder. There may be negative consequences on his GPA in the short term, but long term if he stays on the drug permanently that is very bad and if he has to get off it at some point that is extremely difficult and will be disruptive to his life.


I heard on an NPR show this morning what the rationale a lot of college kids use to take adderal - college is hard, they just need the drug for college, and when they get into the "real world" where life is easier, they won't need it. Life easier in the "real world" - imagine that!!!!!


----------



## eots

Mr. H. said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most sufferers of Schizophrenia can't make rational decisions. Certainly not when they are off their meds.
> I've acted as my younger brother's court-appointed guardian for the past 20 years. He's been doing great these last few years but oh man has he had his moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once someone has taken anti-psychotics its a almost sure bet they will go nuts on a sudden withdraw..then this perpetuates the belief the medications are required and without them the person would be in psychosis. going off medications should be done slowly under a doctors care
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think weaning a bi-polar from meds would result in behavior any different from going cold turky. Or cold turducken either.
Click to expand...


these drugs  have powerful effects on brain chemistry
sudden withdraw will with out question cause  Dopamine, serotonin, and histamine receptors found in the brain to over stimulate, causing nausea and vomiting., dopamine and serotonin also effect  the brainstem When neurotransmitters are withdrawn from these regions discontinuation syndrome occurs with  serious adverse events such as dizziness, lightheadedness, nausea, tremors, insomnia, sedation, electric shock-like pains,delusions and anxiety


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Xb29geVwE]Peter Breggin MD: How Do Psychiatric Drugs Really Work? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## eots

*Is Abilify right for you ?...soundtrack The eots*


----------



## Liability

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol...what a silly man he thinks if he simply says _false_ he has.. _refuted your claims_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ what a stupid twat.  He thinks if he labels his ignorant vapid opinion as "fact" that it somehow becomes a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> its pretty clear for anyone reading this thread that this post represents your level of debate which is nothing more than personal insults without a single factual reference or link
Click to expand...


It remains crystal clear that you are nothing more than an id-eot who mistakes your YouTube based opinions for "facts."


----------



## dukect45

thanatos144 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Single parents and lazy teachers, who think all boys from preschool on up should act like 13 year old girls. That's the long and short of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mom was one of those.....Thus why i was on Ritalin for so long....I stopped taking it my self. I learned to control myself .....I think given time 98% of the kids on that shit could be taught to control themselves..... Being doped up like that is no way for a kid to live....I know this personally. I also have personally seen the pain on parents when these drugs kill a child and dammit they do kill them. These drugs are damn dangerous. They are damn dangerous in prescribed dosages.
> 
> The problem is they work....They do what they say they will ... They will make a boy stay still....Of course he feels completely like a zombie and cant control anything.....They dont even have any genuine spontaneity...You have no desire to do much of anything....You dont even want to eat..... Play ball????? Naw dont want to exert your self..... Run around? No not feeling it.... Think independently????? Naw rather just do as I am told....
> 
> Thats what they dont tell you.You are very malleable when doped up like this.
Click to expand...


My parents put me on Ritalin back when I was in the 4th grade saw what it did do me and at the start of my 6th grade year I was ween off of it. Have to say it was a bumpy ride for awhile but I learned how to focus

And yeah Etos is right that we over medicate the young people in this country but I do't think you can throw out the baby with the bathwater that there are in some cases like in depression and anxiety and etc that need medication but that's what I think could be wrong


----------



## Samson

Mr. H. said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most sufferers of Schizophrenia can't make rational decisions. Certainly not when they are off their meds.
> I've acted as my younger brother's court-appointed guardian for the past 20 years. He's been doing great these last few years but oh man has he had his moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once someone has taken anti-psychotics its a almost sure bet they will go nuts on a sudden withdraw..then this perpetuates the belief the medications are required and without them the person would be in psychosis. going off medications should be done slowly under a doctors care
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think weaning a bi-polar from meds would result in behavior any different from going cold turky. Or cold turducken either.
Click to expand...


Turducken suffers from multiple personality disorder....another diagnosed mental problem that doesn't have "verifiable medical tests" applicable for identifying symptoms.

Obviously we need a Turducken video to understand.


----------



## Samson

Liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ what a stupid twat.  He thinks if he labels his ignorant vapid opinion as "fact" that it somehow becomes a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its pretty clear for anyone reading this thread that this post represents your level of debate which is nothing more than personal insults without a single factual reference or link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It remains crystal clear that you are nothing more than an id-eot who mistakes your YouTube based opinions for "facts."
Click to expand...


Youtubes are the tool's tool for burying moronic posts born from an occasional misfiring neuron that passes for eot's brain activity.


----------



## eots

blah  blah,blah,blah ??..so are there any of these facts you wish to question or are you just going to name call and build your youtube strawmen


----------



## eots

liability said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liability said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ what a stupid twat.  He thinks if he labels his ignorant vapid opinion as "fact" that it somehow becomes a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its pretty clear for anyone reading this thread that this post represents your level of debate which is nothing more than personal insults without a single factual reference or link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it remains crystal clear that you are nothing more than an id-eot who mistakes your youtube based opinions for "facts."
Click to expand...


many of the youtube videos posted have been from large mainstream news sources and from american psychiatric board meetings ..as well as from congress ..all you do, is what you do in this post.. Display your ignorance and the weakness of your position


----------



## eots

samson said:


> mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> once someone has taken anti-psychotics its a almost sure bet they will go nuts on a sudden withdraw..then this perpetuates the belief the medications are required and without them the person would be in psychosis. Going off medications should be done slowly under a doctors care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think weaning a bi-polar from meds would result in behavior any different from going cold turky. Or cold turducken either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> turducken suffers from multiple personality disorder....another diagnosed mental problem that doesn't have "verifiable medical tests" applicable for identifying symptoms.
> 
> Obviously we need a turducken video to understand.
Click to expand...


 personality disorders are not claimed to be a medical illness so why would they have a medical test ?


Multiple Personality Disorder is commonly caused by trauma or abuse in the early years of ones life (I.e. rape,abuse


----------



## eots

Treatment for most personality disorders usually involves a course of psychological therapy. This normally lasts at least six months,  often longer, depending on the severity of the condition and other co-existing problems.
Personality disorder - Treatment - NHS Choices


----------



## Samson

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



With your _son in special programs since before he was two_, ....._with a sensory perception disorder _ I would be surprised you're not already accessing all the appropriate medical and social resources available.

At any rate, it doesn't sound like the run-of-the-mill ADHD. I would contact those associated with the sensory perception disorder diagnosis, and have them refer you to a specialist if necessary. They will be able to pass on the valuable information they have regarding the disorder he already has, and how it (and any meds he may be on already) may be effecting ADHD symptoms.


Now, for the run-of-the-mill cases, I have two comments:

1. ADHD is over-diagnosed by females in an increasingly feminized society: Boys to not act like Girls, and sitting in classes for long periods of time during which they are inactive is often very difficult for boys because they are MALES. Put the kid on a treadmill.

2. Medication administered to children over a period of years must be re-evaluated, particularly as the child enters puberty. ADHD perscriptions that worked perfectly well when the child is 10, might cause some weird shit when they are 13.


----------



## koshergrl

Mr. H. said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most sufferers of Schizophrenia can't make rational decisions. Certainly not when they are off their meds.
> I've acted as my younger brother's court-appointed guardian for the past 20 years. He's been doing great these last few years but oh man has he had his moments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once someone has taken anti-psychotics its a almost sure bet they will go nuts on a sudden withdraw..then this perpetuates the belief the medications are required and without them the person would be in psychosis. going off medications should be done slowly under a doctors care
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think weaning a bi-polar from meds would result in behavior any different from going cold turky. Or cold turducken either.
Click to expand...


So they could potentially have seizures, a psychotic break, or die.


----------



## Annie

I think it's interesting that those that have driven off any discussion of the possible help that meds may give to a child are the same folks that continue to perpetuate the discredited 'science' of the ills of vaccinations is scary indeed.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With your _son in special programs since before he was two_, ....._with a sensory perception disorder _ I would be surprised you're not already accessing all the appropriate medical and social resources available.
> 
> At any rate, it doesn't sound like the* run-of-the-mill ADHD*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> run of the mill ADHD ?? could you elaborate on how you determined it was not ru_n of the mill ADHD ?_  you would not happen to have a credible link or youtube video discussing _run of the mill _ADHD.would you ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would contact those associated with the sensory perception disorder diagnosis, and have them refer you to a specialist if necessary. They will be able to pass on the valuable information they have regarding the disorder he already has, and how it (and any meds he may be on already) may be effecting ADHD symptoms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, for the run-of-the-mill cases, I have two comments:
> 
> 1. *ADHD is over-diagnosed by females *in an increasingly feminized society: Boys to not act like Girls, and sitting in classes for long periods of time during which they are inactive is often very difficult for boys because they are MALES. Put the kid on a treadmill.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so is _run of the mill _ADHD also a medical brain disorder ?
> and are you saying that most psychiatrist are female ? or are you saying female teachers are making the diagnosis and psychiatrist rubber stamping them based on the teachers subjective observations ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Medication administered to children over a period of years must be re-evaluated, particularly as the child enters puberty. ADHD perscriptions that worked perfectly well when the child is 10, might cause some weird shit when they are 13
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> or 11 or 12 even sudden death..suicide ...murder..and it will with out question show medically verifiable shrinkage of the frontal lobe after prolonged use
Click to expand...


----------



## eots

Annie said:


> I think it's interesting that those that have driven off any discussion of the possible help that meds may give to a child are the same folks that continue to perpetuate the discredited 'science' of the ills of vaccinations is scary indeed.



red herrings now ?.vaccinations is another subject


----------



## eots

_great little documentary.._

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8k0iw1Kon4]Louis Theroux Documentary. America's Medicated Kids- Full Movie - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## eots

*The Next Attention Deficit Disorder?*

SPD research so far is provocative but limited. "It's hard to get grants for a disorder that doesn't exist," laments Miller, whose recent book, Sensational Kids, offers a guide to both research and treatment. Many studies are flawed by vague criteria for identifying the condition, samples that include kids with other disorders, and an utter lack of standardized treatment.
The Next Attention Deficit Disorder? - TIME
Read more: The Next Attention Deficit Disorder? - TIME


----------



## eots

*Why "Sensory Integration Disorder" Is a Dubious Diagnosis

Peter L. Heilbroner, MD, PhD
*
Anecdotal evidence from parents is often used to support the existence of SID and the effectiveness of treatment. A review of the literature on sensory integration disorder reveals mostly poorly designed studies and flawed methodology. Studies with tiny sample sizes (as small as one patient!) are common [3-7]. Other studies investigate sensory symptoms in children with a serious underlying disorder such as autism [8-12], or mental retardation [13-16], and are therefore unlikely to be especially relevant to more normal children. Still other research assesses sensory therapies in the treatment of tangentially related conditions, like learning disability [17-23] or neuromotor delays [24-27]. In some cases where treatment appears to benefit, the therapies may simply be a calming influence on a nervous child. However, there are no adequate controlled studies either supporting the existence of SID as a distinct and definable entity, or clearly demonstrating the effectiveness of the therapies used for SID compared to no treatment at all [28-30]. In my experience, children diagnosed with "SID" are simply very anxious and come from a family that includes others who suffer from an anxiety disorder.

It should be remembered that most children develop and improve their behavior spontaneously. Given the fact that few (if any) adult patients have sensory integration disorder, it is reasonable to question whether costly interventions are really necessary for what is a most likely a self-limiting problem of neurodevelopmental immaturity and anxiety. I also believe that children or families whose behavioral or anxiety disorders could benefit treatment would be better off seeking standard treatment than wasting time and money on unproven or irrational approaches.

Well-designed scientific studies are needed to determine whether or not SID is indeed a disorder, and even if so, whether the treatments currently prescribed are effective or necessary. Until studies along these lines are conducted, the diagnosis of SID should prompt a healthy degree of skepticism.

Why "Sensory Integration Disorder" Is a Dubious Diagnosis


----------



## Mr. H.

I've got a friend who is very dubious of the medical field. In his late 50's never had health insurance on himself, wife, or two kids. Cheap to the point of denying his wife needed treatment and medicines. What an idiot.


----------



## koshergrl

Lol...that is foolish but I think *diagnosing* little kids with behavior disorders before they've even gotten out of gradeschool is a risky venture.

I just don't buy the whole widespread adhd thing. Kids are too diverse in their impulse control/nervous system development/behavior to be able to say "this kid needs to be medicated because he won't sit still and be quiet". There's plenty of time to dope them later, after their brains and nerves have finished developing.

Take juvenile seizure disorder...some kids, for no known reason, will start having seizures as they enter adolescence; around 8-10 years of age. That's what happened to my kid...he probably had them before that, but they weren't obvious..though he had a preschool teacher who noticed he had trouble tracking letters on a chart...anyway, he outgrew the seizures. Their nervous systems develop out of whack with their ability to control the impulses...(that's a really non-scientific explanation, but it gives a picture) so they have these *break through* seizures...and then eventually, they *catch up* and the seizures stop breaking through. It's like there's a brake on brain activity that some kids outdistance, and it takes some time for the brakes to catch up/get enough muscles to control the impulses.....

It just takes some kids longer to *catch up* and be able to control their impulses, brain activity and process input, I think. So people find them annoying, so they're a little disruptive. Too flipping bad. If they can't deal, then just find a different environment. It takes work, and modifications, and then more work on the part of the parent and the teachers; but I think it's all about buying time, to allow the kid to develop, unhindered by chemicals. Until you, as a mother, become convinced there's something wrong, and it's wrong ENOUGH that you're willing to risk the side effects of meds to adjust it. Because nothing is a given...meds can make things worse, or cause different issues. In fact, they almost always do. For me to put that poison in my kid, I would have to see evidence that his well being and safety were in danger. I wouldn't dose my kid with ritalin just because he's a little difficult and doesn't want to mind. I'd try everything else in the world first. I'd buy time to allow him to develop past it...or for it to get so bad there is just no denying there is a big, fat problem.


----------



## Liability

koshergrl said:


> Lol...that is foolish but I think *diagnosing* little kids with behavior disorders before they've even gotten out of gradeschool is a risky venture.
> 
> I just don't buy the whole widespread adhd thing. * * * *



and you are entitled to that opinion.

But having it doesn't make you right.

I know a nice woman who lost her mom and became very bitter in denouncing any belief in God.

A pal of ours calmly told her, "That's ok ______, God believes in you."

Same principle involved.  If ADHD is indeed a malady that actually exists, then your belief or disbelief in it doesn't change the fact that it exists.

On the other hand, I happen to agree with part of your thought process.  It is problematical that it can be "diagnosed" or mis-diagnosed too readily and too easily.  And this is compounded to the extent that such a diagnosis can lead to prescriptions for strong drugs used as chemical babysitters.  That part of the problem is all too real.


----------



## eots

Liability said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol...that is foolish but I think *diagnosing* little kids with behavior disorders before they've even gotten out of gradeschool is a risky venture.
> 
> I just don't buy the whole widespread adhd thing. * * * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you are entitled to that opinion.
> 
> But having it doesn't make you right.
> 
> I know a nice woman who lost her mom and became very bitter in denouncing any belief in God.
> 
> A pal of ours calmly told her, "That's ok ______, God believes in you."
> 
> Same principle involved.  If ADHD is indeed a malady that actually exists, then your belief or disbelief in it doesn't change the fact that it exists.
> 
> On the other hand, I happen to agree with part of your thought process.  It is problematical that it can be "diagnosed" or mis-diagnosed too readily and too easily.  And this is compounded to the extent that such a diagnosis can lead to prescriptions for strong drugs used as chemical babysitters.  That part of the problem is all too real.
Click to expand...


 So the scientific method  you are employing is...I do not believe in god but god believes in me ? or I do not believe in ADHD but ADHD believes I my child ?.


----------



## thanatos144

Liability said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol...that is foolish but I think *diagnosing* little kids with behavior disorders before they've even gotten out of gradeschool is a risky venture.
> 
> I just don't buy the whole widespread adhd thing. * * * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you are entitled to that opinion.
> 
> But having it doesn't make you right.
> 
> I know a nice woman who lost her mom and became very bitter in denouncing any belief in God.
> 
> A pal of ours calmly told her, "That's ok ______, God believes in you."
> 
> Same principle involved.  If ADHD is indeed a malady that actually exists, then your belief or disbelief in it doesn't change the fact that it exists.
> 
> On the other hand, I happen to agree with part of your thought process.  It is problematical that it can be "diagnosed" or mis-diagnosed too readily and too easily.  And this is compounded to the extent that such a diagnosis can lead to prescriptions for strong drugs used as chemical babysitters.  That part of the problem is all too real.
Click to expand...


So joey doesn't behave like susie you answer is we medicate him ?


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> Lol...that is foolish but I think *diagnosing* little kids with behavior disorders before they've even gotten out of gradeschool is a risky venture..





And that's why on our planet you must have a medical license to do it.



What are they doing on eot's planet?


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damn, you're slow...and my sarcasm is clearly wasted on you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> facts and empirical evidence are clearly wasted on you
Click to expand...


You haven't presented any facts.

Stick to watching YouTube and the Cartoon Channel, eots. Posting on a message board is clearly to difficult a task for your severely limited intellectual skills.

The ADHD Molecular Genetics Network. Report from the third international meeting of the attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder molecular genetics network. *American Journal of Medical Genetics, 2002, 114:272-277.*

Facts About ADHD



> ADHD is one of the most common neurobehavioral disorders of childhood. It is usually first diagnosed in childhood and often lasts into adulthood. Children with ADHD may have trouble paying attention, controlling impulsive behaviors (may act without thinking about what the result will be), or be overly active.


----------



## eots

samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> damn, you're slow...and my sarcasm is clearly wasted on you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> facts and empirical evidence are clearly wasted on you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you haven't presented any facts.
> 
> Stick to watching youtube and the cartoon channel, eots. Posting on a message board is clearly to difficult a task for your severely limited intellectual skills.
> 
> The adhd molecular genetics network. Report from the third international meeting of the attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder molecular genetics network. *american journal of medical genetics, 2002, 114:272-277.*
> 
> facts about adhd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> adhd is one of the most common neurobehavioral disorders of childhood. It is usually first diagnosed in childhood and often lasts into adulthood. Children with adhd may have trouble paying attention, controlling impulsive behaviors (may act without thinking about what the result will be), or be overly active.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


why are posting a copy of your previously debunked post retard ??


----------



## eots

Facts About ADHD
ADHD is one of the most common neurobehavioral disorders of childhood. It is usually first diagnosed in childhood and often lasts into adulthood. Children with ADHD may have trouble paying attention, controlling impulsive behaviors (may act without thinking about what the result will be), or be overly active.[1]

Signs and Symptoms
It is normal for children to have trouble focusing and behaving at one time or another. However, children with ADHD do not just grow out of these behaviors. The symptoms continue and can cause difficulty at school, at home, or with friends.
A child with ADHD might:

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others
*
THESE ARE THE SO CALLED FACTS FROM HIS LINK*

CDC - ADHD, Facts - NCBDDD


----------



## eots

FACT...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD

FACT..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are

have a hard time paying attention
daydream a lot
not seem to listen
be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
forget things
be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
squirm or fidget
talk too much
not be able to play quietly
act and speak without thinking
have trouble taking turns
interrupt others

FACT..Drug companies have a long history of knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages

*
THIS IS WHAT SAMSON CAN NOT DISPUTE*


----------



## eots

And I am still waiting for your link to ..._run of the mill _ADHD study or atleast youtube video


----------



## thanatos144

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol...that is foolish but I think *diagnosing* little kids with behavior disorders before they've even gotten out of gradeschool is a risky venture..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's why on our planet you must have a medical license to do it.
Click to expand...

 That doesn't give anyone the right to feel good about doping a kid up cause they are to lazy to parent or teach.


----------



## Samson

Jeremiah said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a huge push to diagnose children with ADHD and many do not have anything more than a very active and lively nature that teachers would prefer to be toned down rather than accepting their job may be a bit more challenging.
> 
> They tried to diagnose my own son years ago with ADHD and I refused to allow them to put him on medicine.  today?  He is fine!  How did I know he wasn't ADHD?  He was very hyper active but he was also a chess champion.  If that isn't attention abundance I don't know what is.  So do not worry too much about this but rather google some stories about the overmedicating of our youth today.
Click to expand...


Correct: Their is no questioning the link between feminization of society and the explosion of ADHD disorder among boys.

Boys are simply more active than girls.


----------



## High_Gravity

eots said:


> FACT...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> FACT..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> *have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others*
> FACT..Drug companies have a long history of knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages
> 
> *
> THIS IS WHAT SAMSON CAN NOT DISPUTE*



I still have a hard time believing all boys behave that way.


----------



## koshergrl

Not all, but a lot. I had two who were perfectly behaved...and then I have my youngest.

My youngest does much better academically than the two older boys ever did. He cares nothing about what other people think of him...and he's the one that so many advised me to *test*.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said it yourself, it was a problem in school.  He's adjusted and he's living with it in the real world, that doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.  He's turned it into a gift but few people can get jobs if they can't get an education and they can't get an education if they can't sit still enough to learn.
> 
> Guess what? Savant-ism is a neurological disorder too.  Do you know what that is?  It's what gives certain people talents like photographic memories, etc.  The fact that it's a good thing doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.
> 
> Interesting that you've gone from arguing that it doesn't exist to claiming it's not a disorder.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions
Click to expand...


For something that _does not exists as a medical condition_ it certainly has the attention of the CDC.

As you have no credentials to know anymore about the subject than the ballon of hot air that is your credablity, whether or not You believe it is a medical condition is irrelevant.


----------



## Mr. H.

Againsheila said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that with the drug, it only works if the child IS ADHD.  That's why the blind study.  So the teachers nor the parents or even the doctor know if they are getting the drug that week or the placebo.  After the test, they determine which week they did best, if it matches up with the drug then they are ADHD.  Some people try the test again to be sure, I have no problems with that.  My son couldn't sit still for 5 minutes without the drug when he was in 1st grade.  I took him off it in 3rd grade due to side effects.  There are other things to do to help, like behavioral modification and making sure they get plenty of exercise during recess, etc.  My son's school didn't know and didn't suspect anything when I took him off the drug but boy were they made when a year and a 1/2 later they found out he was no longer on the drug.  I was a pariah as far as they were concerned.  And suddenly my son started having behavior problems again, problems he didn't have when they thought he was on the drug.  I ended up removing him from that school and homeschooling him for a few years.
> 
> BTW, when my son was in 7th grade, I took him to a private psychiatrist and he was diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.  Something I suspected back when he was in 2nd grade but of course, because I suggested it, he couldn't possibly have it.  Oh, and hyperactivity, he still had that.  So did my other Autistic son.  For him, we paid a lot of money for a drug patch to keep him from being so hyper because it wasn't designed for that reason and the insurance company refused to pay for it even with a letter from his pediatric neurologist.
> 
> So we know Hyperactivity exists.  Is it just the ADD part of it you believe is made up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms
> in a school setting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said it yourself, it was a problem in school.  He's adjusted and he's living with it in the real world, that doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.  He's turned it into a gift but few people can get jobs if they can't get an education and they can't get an education if they can't sit still enough to learn.
> 
> Guess what? Savant-ism is a neurological disorder too.  Do you know what that is?  It's what gives certain people talents like photographic memories, etc.  The fact that it's a good thing doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.
> 
> Interesting that you've gone from arguing that it doesn't exist to claiming it's not a disorder.....
Click to expand...


Both of my sister's sons have been through multiple diagnoses over the years. They went from ADHD ( their school insisted on drugs) to Tourettes ( their school insisted on drugs) to Autism ( their school insisted on drugs) to Savant ( their school insisted on drugs) to Asperger ( their school insisted on drugs). 

Every step of the way she has insisted on a no-drug approach. And to this day she has prevailed. But not without a ferocious battle. My nephews have both tested at genius level intelligence. The younger is being courted by MENSA. The elder has his sights set on M.I.T. and will settle for nothing less. 

Stick to your dogs, Ms. A. It is not you or your child who must bend.

YOU must fight to bend authority.


----------



## eots

High_Gravity said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> FACT...There is no valid diagnostic test for ADHD
> 
> FACT..ADHD is diagnosed by a subjective observation and judgement of behaviorism which are
> 
> *have a hard time paying attention
> daydream a lot
> not seem to listen
> be easily distracted from schoolwork or play
> forget things
> be in constant motion or unable to stay seated
> squirm or fidget
> talk too much
> not be able to play quietly
> act and speak without thinking
> have trouble taking turns
> interrupt others*
> FACT..Drug companies have a long history of knowingly falsifying studies and withholding studies of drug dangers and ineffectiveness of psych drugs while promoting their use in children and have paid out billions in damages
> 
> *
> THIS IS WHAT SAMSON CAN NOT DISPUTE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still have a hard time believing all boys behave that way.
Click to expand...


not all do ..some even get awards for their unusually "good behavior"


----------



## Samson

Katzndogz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms in a school setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normalcy is a mental disorder.  Especially in boys.   Boys are not independent.  They are actually dysfunctional girls and must be medicated to act more like girls.
> 
> Your experience is quite common.  The ones who need to be drugged are often the most imaginative and creative.   They are the hardest workers.  But then being a "workaholic" is also a mental disorder that must be drugged out.    Children that like to run or climb are hyperactive.   Those that use creative ways of problem solving have ADD.
> 
> If you are a workaholic who likes to work.  Never fear.  There are drugs that can make you as lazy as the next guy.
> 
> The TRUTH About Workaholics | CareerCast.com
Click to expand...


This is certainly true in MANY diagnosis of ADHD, but it does not mean ADHD does not exist.


----------



## Samson

Mr. H. said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms
> in a school setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You said it yourself, it was a problem in school.  He's adjusted and he's living with it in the real world, that doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.  He's turned it into a gift but few people can get jobs if they can't get an education and they can't get an education if they can't sit still enough to learn.
> 
> Guess what? Savant-ism is a neurological disorder too.  Do you know what that is?  It's what gives certain people talents like photographic memories, etc.  The fact that it's a good thing doesn't make it less of a brain disorder.
> 
> Interesting that you've gone from arguing that it doesn't exist to claiming it's not a disorder.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Both of my sister's sons have been through multiple diagnoses over the years. They went from ADHD ( their school insisted on drugs) to Tourettes ( their school insisted on drugs) to Autism ( their school insisted on drugs) to Savant ( their school insisted on drugs) to Asperger ( their school insisted on drugs).
> 
> Every step of the way she has insisted on a no-drug approach. And to this day she has prevailed. But not without a ferocious battle. My nephews have both tested at genius level intelligence. The younger is being courted by MENSA. The elder has his sights set on M.I.T. and will settle for nothing less.
> 
> Stick to your dogs, Ms. A. It is not you or your child who must bend.
> 
> YOU must fight to bend authority.
Click to expand...


I'm curious: how did the _school insist on drugs_?

Was it a teacher, or the entire staff, or evey member of the school district from the school janitor to the superintendent?

I have no doubt that she may have run up against an over-zealous individual; however its difficult to believe that the entire school insisted on anything without due process (diagnosis from medical profesionals), and even then it would not be possible to _insist_ on anything without an overwhelming body of documented evidence.

This is often the case, however: Parents believe that one person, a teacher, or councellor or even a principal, can _insist_ anything, and they think they must do it because as a student they were compliant. The fact is, as a adult and parent, nothing could be further from the truth.


----------



## Mr. H.

It was the janitor. He needed the extra income.


----------



## Samson

Mr. H. said:


> It was the janitor. He needed the extra income.



Ah, they know eots.


----------



## Mr. H.

^


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was the janitor. He needed the extra income.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, they know eots.
Click to expand...


Is this your lame attempt at wit ?...how sad for you


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> the part that is made up is that it is a brain disorder..my sons so called hyperactivity..that was a problem in school is a gift in the real world..he often works 6 days a week..he comes home after a full days work  at 3 has the house clean dinner ready for his girlfriend getting home ..then he  ready to go out or work on a project..he will talk to anyone anywhere and always has something to say.. employers love him..all the qualities he is praised for his outgoing ways his out the box thinking, his humor.his high energy and talkativeness..his mufti-tasking..are all the traits they called his symptoms in a school setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normalcy is a mental disorder.  Especially in boys.   Boys are not independent.  They are actually dysfunctional girls and must be medicated to act more like girls.
> 
> Your experience is quite common.  The ones who need to be drugged are often the most imaginative and creative.   They are the hardest workers.  But then being a "workaholic" is also a mental disorder that must be drugged out.    Children that like to run or climb are hyperactive.   Those that use creative ways of problem solving have ADD.
> 
> If you are a workaholic who likes to work.  Never fear.  There are drugs that can make you as lazy as the next guy.
> 
> The TRUTH About Workaholics | CareerCast.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is certainly true in MANY diagnosis of ADHD, but it does not mean ADHD does not exist.
Click to expand...


and it does not mean that it does...back to the drawing board sigmund


----------



## Samson

[





eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> For something that _does not exists as a medical condition_ it certainly has the attention of the CDC.
> 
> As you have no credentials to know anymore about the subject than the ballon of hot air that is your credablity, whether or not You believe it is a medical condition is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and 40 years a go they  all knowingly drove ice picks in peoples brains ,listed homosexuality as a neurological disorder and appeal to authority types like yourself chimed very much the same responses to he critics as you do now
Click to expand...


Scarecrow much?

Try to focus on the subject......interesting this seems to be your issue in a thread about ADHD.


----------



## barry1960

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Normalcy is a mental disorder.  Especially in boys.   Boys are not independent.  They are actually dysfunctional girls and must be medicated to act more like girls.
> 
> Your experience is quite common.  The ones who need to be drugged are often the most imaginative and creative.   They are the hardest workers.  But then being a "workaholic" is also a mental disorder that must be drugged out.    Children that like to run or climb are hyperactive.   Those that use creative ways of problem solving have ADD.
> 
> If you are a workaholic who likes to work.  Never fear.  There are drugs that can make you as lazy as the next guy.
> 
> The TRUTH About Workaholics | CareerCast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is certainly true in MANY diagnosis of ADHD, but it does not mean ADHD does not exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and it does not mean that it does...back to the drawing board sigmund
Click to expand...


I do agree that ADHD is over diagnosed (your position would be by 100% since in your opinion the condition does not exist). I also agree that there should be concern over providing medication to children.

I was curious what your thoughts are on the diagnosis of autism. The rate of autism has increased dramatically. Do your feel that the condition is over diagnosed or that perhaps it does not exist at all. Although there are symptoms related to autism, there is no definitive test to confirm a diagnosis. The diagnosis is usually made by ruling out other disorders and by the obervations of multiple symptoms.

I am asking since your position on ADHD would appear extreme and I was wondering if you held a similiar position in regards to autism.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> For something that _does not exists as a medical condition_ it certainly has the attention of the CDC.
> 
> As you have no credentials to know anymore about the subject than the ballon of hot air that is your credablity, whether or not You believe it is a medical condition is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and 40 years a go they  all knowingly drove ice picks in peoples brains ,listed homosexuality as a neurological disorder and appeal to authority types like yourself chimed very much the same responses to he critics as you do now
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Scarecrow much?
> 
> Try to focus on the subject......interesting this seems to be your issue in a thread about ADHD.
Click to expand...


what kind of loser repeatedly re-post his old post from the Beginning of the thread minus my reply ??


----------



## eots

barry1960 said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is certainly true in MANY diagnosis of ADHD, but it does not mean ADHD does not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and it does not mean that it does...back to the drawing board sigmund
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do agree that ADHD is over diagnosed (your position would be by 100% since in your opinion the condition does not exist). I also agree that there should be concern over providing medication to children.
> 
> I was curious what your thoughts are on the diagnosis of autism. The rate of autism has increased dramtically. Do your feel that the condition is over diagnosed or that perhaps it does not diagnosed at all. Although there are symptoms related to autism, there is no definitive test to confirm a diagnosis. The diagnosis is usually made by ruling out other disorders and by the obervations of multiple symptoms.
> 
> I am asking since your position on ADHD would appear extreme and I was wondering if you held a similiar position in regards to autism.
Click to expand...


lets ask Dr Francis chairman of the dsm V

In support of the criticisms  *Dr Frances wrote: **&#8216;We are already in the midst of a false epidemic of ADD. *Rates in kids that were 3-5% when DSM IV was published in 1994 have now jumped to 10%. In part this came from changes in DSM IV, *but most of the inflation was caused by a marketing blitz to practitioners that accompanied new on-patent drugs amplified by new regulations that also allowed direct to consumer advertising to parents and teachers. *In a sensible world, DSM 5 would now offer much tighter criteria for ADD and much clearer advice on the steps needed in its differential diagnosis&#8230;&#8230;. *The DSM 5 child and adolescent work group has perversely gone just the other way. It proposes to make an already far too easy diagnosis much looser. How puzzling and troubling.&#8217; (*Full blog by Dr Frances available at DSM 5 Will Further Inflate The ADD Bubble | Psychology Today )
*
He had previously (February 2010) raised concerns about the DSM5 proposal for ADHD along with 18 other DSM5 proposals *including; Psychosis Risk Syndrome, Mixed Anxiety Depressive Disorder, Minor Neurocognitive Disorder, Binge Eating Disorder, Temper Dysfunctional Disorder, Paraphilic Coercive Disorder, Hypersexuality Disorder, Behavioral Addiction Conditions, Addiction Disorder,* Autism Spectrum Disorder,* Pedohebephilia* and medicalising normal grief. *(see Opening Pandora?s Box: The 19 Worst Suggestions For DSM5 - Psychiatric Times )

5, Dr Frances has identified that the DSMIV process he lead* inadvertently helped &#8216;trigger three false epidemics. One for Autistic Disorder&#8230; *another for the *childhood diagnosis of Bi-Polar Disorder* and the third for the *wild over-diagnosis of Attention Deficit Disorder.&#8217;1 *

*&#8216;The putative diagnoses presented in DSM-V are clearly based largely on social norms, with &#8216;symptoms&#8217; that all **rely on subjective judgements*, with* little confirmatory *physical &#8216;signs&#8217; or *evidence of biological causation.* The *criteria are not value-free, but rather reflect current normative social expectations.* *Many researchers have pointed out that psychiatric diagnoses are plagued by problems of reliability, validity, prognostic value, and co-morbidity.&#8217;*

Dr Allen Frances, the lead author of DSMIV, and the British Psychological Association, lead the chorus of opposition to disease mongering proposals in DSM5 | Speed Up & Sit Still


----------



## Samson

Si modo said:


> ADHD Is Over-Diagnosed, Experts Say
> 
> Mar. 30, 2012 &#8212; What experts and the public have already long suspected is now supported by representative data collected by researchers at Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) and University of Basel: ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is over-diagnosed. The study showed that child and adolescent psychotherapists and psychiatrists tend to give a diagnosis based on heuristics, unclear rules of thumb, rather than adhering to recognized diagnostic criteria. Boys in particular are substantially more often misdiagnosed compared to girls.
> 
> ....​
> Science Daily



No one ever disputed that it was over diagnosed.

What was in dispute was the moronic position that it simply did not exist.



eots said:


> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ADHD Is Over-Diagnosed, Experts Say
> 
> Mar. 30, 2012 &#8212; What experts and the public have already long suspected is now supported by representative data collected by researchers at Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) and University of Basel: ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is over-diagnosed. The study showed that child and adolescent psychotherapists and psychiatrists tend to give a diagnosis based on heuristics, unclear rules of thumb, rather than adhering to recognized diagnostic criteria. Boys in particular are substantially more often misdiagnosed compared to girls.
> 
> ....​
> Science Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one ever disputed that it was over diagnosed.
> 
> What was in dispute was the moronic position that it simply did not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> it does not exists as a medical condition..it is a non-existent brain disorder
> and i have not said otherwise..there a personality we describe with words like hyper..of course all kinds of complex personalities exists..but they are not medical conditions
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


_That is absolutely correct there is no evidence that ADHD exists as a brain disorder_..

 &#8216;The putative diagnoses presented in DSM-V are clearly based n social norms, with &#8216;symptoms&#8217; that all rely on subjective judgements, with little confirmatory physical &#8216;signs&#8217; or evidence of biological causation. The criteria are not value-free, but rather reflect current normative social expectations. Many researchers have pointed out that psychiatric diagnoses are plagued by problems of reliability, validity, prognostic value, and co-morbidity.&#8217;

Dr Alan Francis chairman dsm 4


----------



## Samson

thanatos144 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be very careful.....there is a reason mostly boys are on these drugs. It should be called chemical babysitter cause what it does is make you feel slow and zombie like....How do I know this? Cause some 30 years ago I had to take these drugs cause the teachers couldnt handle boys. Attention deficit disorder just mean the teacher doesn't have the attention to to give the student and the deficit causes her class to be in disorder.....
> 
> Self control. This is something the boy needs to learn. Most definitely before you put him on amphetamines that are damn dangerous to his heart. These drugs are not aspirin even if the teachers use them as such. They are controlled substances....They are illegal to posses without a prescription and now ask yourself do you really want your son to take that twice a day every day?
Click to expand...


Very well stated;

While the ends (self control) might not justify the means (perscriptions), what other means are available?

Teachers are dealing with larger class sizes, and a wide variety of social issues (ESL, Special Education, etc.) than they had 30 years ago.

Single parent homes are more common than 30 years ago.

Electronic "Social Media" that requires not physical participation, much less exertion, is much more common than 30 years ago.


----------



## Againsheila

Samson said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be very careful.....there is a reason mostly boys are on these drugs. It should be called chemical babysitter cause what it does is make you feel slow and zombie like....How do I know this? Cause some 30 years ago I had to take these drugs cause the teachers couldnt handle boys. Attention deficit disorder just mean the teacher doesn't have the attention to to give the student and the deficit causes her class to be in disorder.....
> 
> Self control. This is something the boy needs to learn. Most definitely before you put him on amphetamines that are damn dangerous to his heart. These drugs are not aspirin even if the teachers use them as such. They are controlled substances....They are illegal to posses without a prescription and now ask yourself do you really want your son to take that twice a day every day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very well stated;
> 
> While the ends (self control) might not justify the means (perscriptions), what other means are available?
> 
> *Teachers are dealing with larger class sizes,* and a wide variety of social issues (ESL, Special Education, etc.) than they had 30 years ago.
> 
> Single parent homes are more common than 30 years ago.
> 
> Electronic "Social Media" that requires not physical participation, much less exertion, is much more common than 30 years ago.
Click to expand...


Yeah, right.  Where do you live?  Around here, when I was in highschool I tutored in a 4th grade class with 36 students.  Fourth grade classes around here now don't have more than 28 students.  I'll give you the rest, but not the class size.


----------



## Samson

Againsheila said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be very careful.....there is a reason mostly boys are on these drugs. It should be called chemical babysitter cause what it does is make you feel slow and zombie like....How do I know this? Cause some 30 years ago I had to take these drugs cause the teachers couldnt handle boys. Attention deficit disorder just mean the teacher doesn't have the attention to to give the student and the deficit causes her class to be in disorder.....
> 
> Self control. This is something the boy needs to learn. Most definitely before you put him on amphetamines that are damn dangerous to his heart. These drugs are not aspirin even if the teachers use them as such. They are controlled substances....They are illegal to posses without a prescription and now ask yourself do you really want your son to take that twice a day every day?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very well stated;
> 
> While the ends (self control) might not justify the means (perscriptions), what other means are available?
> 
> *Teachers are dealing with larger class sizes,* and a wide variety of social issues (ESL, Special Education, etc.) than they had 30 years ago.
> 
> Single parent homes are more common than 30 years ago.
> 
> Electronic "Social Media" that requires not physical participation, much less exertion, is much more common than 30 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, right.  Where do you live?  Around here, when I was in highschool I tutored in a 4th grade class with 36 students.  Fourth grade classes around here now don't have more than 28 students.  I'll give you the rest, but not the class size.
Click to expand...


You should start a tread in the Education Forum.


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OdQGbVNa4]The Effects of Emasculation, Part I - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Caroljo

Mr. H. said:


> My youngest boy was quite hyperactive. He was 6 when we divorced and the ex promptly had him taking Ritalin. I withheld them on my weekend visits. I'd rather have had him bouncing around than staring like a zombie.
> 
> Anhow- I'd grind up his Rit and snort it.
> Pretty damn good speed.



Well I never tried my sons meds...but i know it's supposed to give you the opposite effects if you don't need them!  They would help my younger son concentrate because he needed them, but my oldest son told me he tried the ritalin (knowing it could speed him up!) and he couldn't sleep for 2 days! Lol!


----------



## Caroljo

Samson said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With your _son in special programs since before he was two_, ....._with a sensory perception disorder _ I would be surprised you're not already accessing all the appropriate medical and social resources available.
> 
> At any rate, it doesn't sound like the run-of-the-mill ADHD. I would contact those associated with the sensory perception disorder diagnosis, and have them refer you to a specialist if necessary. They will be able to pass on the valuable information they have regarding the disorder he already has, and how it (and any meds he may be on already) may be effecting ADHD symptoms.
> 
> 
> Now, for the run-of-the-mill cases, I have two comments:
> 
> 1. ADHD is over-diagnosed by females in an increasingly feminized society: Boys to not act like Girls, and sitting in classes for long periods of time during which they are inactive is often very difficult for boys because they are MALES. Put the kid on a treadmill.
> 
> 2. Medication administered to children over a period of years must be re-evaluated, particularly as the child enters puberty.* ADHD perscriptions that worked perfectly well when the child is 10, might cause some weird shit when they are 13.*
Click to expand...


I believe that....my son started Ritalin in 2nd grade, and our Dr was very good about watching him closely.  My Dr's son had (has) a VERY BAD case of ADHD plus some other disorders, so he stayed up to date on all treatments and was really knowledgible about it.  When my son got into 8th grade he started getting into sports, football and wrestling, and he didn't like how the ritalin made him feel and it would slow him down.


----------



## Caroljo

boedicca said:


> I've read that in some schools, 90% of the boys are on drugs for ADHD.   I'll bet that the majority are being treated for behaving like normal active boys...and the mostly female staff call them ADHD so they can drug them into behaving like girls.   The parents are then pressured to do something about their boys.  Hence the drugs.
> 
> Yet another reason to avoid public schools.



My son had ADD, not ADHD (he was not hyperactive).  His teachers never had a problem with him disrupting others or acting out....he just couldn't concentrate on things he needed to concentrate on.  When i started him on ritalin, like i said in my other post, it was just what he needed!  He started learning how to read and could actually do his school work without a problem.  It was good for him when he was younger, and he knew when he'd had enough and wanted to do it on his own.  He stopped taking it on his own and never once let his grades slip and was always eligible to play in his HS sports.  Now he's training in PSY OPS which has been a real trial for him, but he made it and graduates in 2 weeks.  I think ritalin helped him to "learn" how to cope with it and luckily he had the determination to not let it slow him down.


----------



## Caroljo

bayoubill said:


> I've always had trouble fitting into the various expectations of others...
> 
> I was a spacy kid growing up... parents and school folks kept telling me "we know you can do better"...
> 
> 
> here I am now at 60 years old...
> 
> been a bumpy road...
> 
> 
> last few years, I've had folks tell me they think I may have been "ADD" all along, or "high-functioning autistic"... or sumpin' else along those same lines...
> 
> back 50 years ago, if they had a fancy name for the way I was, they'd a' prolly called it sumpin' like "lazy white boy syndrome"...



I think i understand!  We're sure my husband has ADD and always has.  He always struggled in school, but back then they just figured you weren't too smart!  He had a lot of social issues and still today (he's also 60 yrs old) there's times i'd like to sneak him a pill!  Lol!  He has a very hard time concentrating and always has, I have to do most everything when it comes to paying bills, etc because he just can't do it.  This is also why i believe ADD is heriditary since my son also has it, and i believe my father in law did too.


----------



## eots

caroljo said:


> mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> my youngest boy was quite hyperactive. He was 6 when we divorced and the ex promptly had him taking ritalin. I withheld them on my weekend visits. I'd rather have had him bouncing around than staring like a zombie.
> 
> Anhow- i'd grind up his rit and snort it.
> Pretty damn good speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well i never tried my sons meds...but i know* it's supposed to give you the opposite effects if you don't need them! * they would help my younger son concentrate because he needed them, but my oldest son told me he tried the ritalin (knowing it could speed him up!) and he couldn't sleep for 2 days! Lol!
Click to expand...


bullshit


----------



## Caroljo

eots said:


> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> my youngest boy was quite hyperactive. He was 6 when we divorced and the ex promptly had him taking ritalin. I withheld them on my weekend visits. I'd rather have had him bouncing around than staring like a zombie.
> 
> Anhow- i'd grind up his rit and snort it.
> Pretty damn good speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well i never tried my sons meds...but i know* it's supposed to give you the opposite effects if you don't need them! * they would help my younger son concentrate because he needed them, but my oldest son told me he tried the ritalin (knowing it could speed him up!) and he couldn't sleep for 2 days! Lol!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bullshit
Click to expand...


How would you know?  Why would i lie about that?  Sorry to inform you, i am not making this up.....but you can think what you want.


----------



## eots

caroljo said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> well i never tried my sons meds...but i know* it's supposed to give you the opposite effects if you don't need them! * they would help my younger son concentrate because he needed them, but my oldest son told me he tried the ritalin (knowing it could speed him up!) and he couldn't sleep for 2 days! Lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how would you know?  Why would i lie about that?  Sorry to inform you, i am not making this up.....but you can think what you want.
Click to expand...


meth is meth while some may tolerate it better than others but that does not equate to it has "the opposite effect if you do not need it " and there is  no evidence adhd or add are medical conditions and not simply individual personality and character,I do not think you are lying..but I do think you are very illinformed


----------



## Caroljo

eots said:


> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> bullshit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how would you know?  Why would i lie about that?  Sorry to inform you, i am not making this up.....but you can think what you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> meth is meth while some may tolerate it better than others but that does not equate to it has "the opposite effect if you do not need it " and there is  no evidence adhd or add are medical conditions and not simply individual personality and character,I do not think you are lying..but I do think you are very illinformed
Click to expand...



Then explain this..........

Because of its stimulant properties, however, in recent years there have been reports of its abuse by people for whom it is not a medication. These prescription tablets can create powerful *stimulant* effects and serious health risks when crushed and then snorted like cocaine, or injected like heroin.

Ritalin | The Partnership at Drugfree.org


----------



## eots

Caroljo said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> how would you know?  Why would i lie about that?  Sorry to inform you, i am not making this up.....but you can think what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meth is meth while some may tolerate it better than others but that does not equate to it has "the opposite effect if you do not need it " and there is  no evidence adhd or add are medical conditions and not simply individual personality and character,I do not think you are lying..but I do think you are very illinformed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain this..........
> 
> Because of its stimulant properties, however, in recent years there have been reports of its abuse by people for whom it is not a medication. These prescription tablets can create powerful *stimulant* effects and serious health risks when crushed and then snorted like cocaine, or injected like heroin.
> 
> Ritalin | The Partnership at Drugfree.org
Click to expand...


explain what ? meth is a powerful stimulate for ever person..nowhere here does it say that "if you need it the effects are different" as you claim and like any drug if its snorted or especially injected it goes directly to the blood stream and is therefore more potent in its effect..all this does is confirm its a powerful cocaine like drug that junkies like...a good rule of thumb...if junkies want it its not good for kids


----------



## Samson

Caroljo said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> well i never tried my sons meds...but i know* it's supposed to give you the opposite effects if you don't need them! * they would help my younger son concentrate because he needed them, but my oldest son told me he tried the ritalin (knowing it could speed him up!) and he couldn't sleep for 2 days! Lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How would you know?  Why would i lie about that?  Sorry to inform you, i am not making this up.....but you can think what you want.
Click to expand...


eots uses essays written by high school juniors, youtube videos, and internet poets to support his claims.

Everyone else uses data from the Center for Disease Control and World-wide health organizations.

Figuring out who has credability is not difficult.


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are only going to treat symptoms based on "valid medical tests?"
> 
> 
> 
> Try getting an X-ray of schizophenia
> 
> Anyone who believes there is some magic test for all brain disorders has a brain disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is a big difference between treating symptoms and claiming something is a medical condition..... _medication_
Click to expand...




Huh? ANY condition manifests itself with SYMPTOMS.

moron.


----------



## Samson

koshergrl said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.
> 
> Neither do I.
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
Click to expand...


Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:

About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.


----------



## Againsheila

eots said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> meth is meth while some may tolerate it better than others but that does not equate to it has "the opposite effect if you do not need it " and there is  no evidence adhd or add are medical conditions and not simply individual personality and character,I do not think you are lying..but I do think you are very illinformed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain this..........
> 
> Because of its stimulant properties, however, in recent years there have been reports of its abuse by people for whom it is not a medication. These prescription tablets can create powerful *stimulant* effects and serious health risks when crushed and then snorted like cocaine, or injected like heroin.
> 
> Ritalin | The Partnership at Drugfree.org
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> explain what ? meth is a powerful stimulate for ever person..nowhere here does it say that "if you need it the effects are different" as you claim and like any drug if its snorted or especially injected it goes directly to the blood stream and is therefore more potent in its effect..all this does is confirm its a powerful cocaine like drug that junkies like...a good rule of thumb...if junkies want it its not good for kids
Click to expand...


Actually yes, a stimulant has the opposite effect on a person with hyperactivity.  I don't know why, I just know it does.


----------



## Caroljo

koshergrl said:


> I think eots is completely insane but I tend to agree with him (cautiously) on this subject.
> 
> I have never seen much good come of medicating children for ADHD. I think the cure is worse than the *disease*...which really isn't a disease at all, it's BEHAVIOR, genetics, environment, patterning...or a combination of them all.
> 
> My youngest is 9 years old. He has been in cosntant motion since birth. He tends to jump up and throw himself into physical activity just at the point of sleep...as a baby he would roll in a circle for hours if we didn't stop him, physically. He would watch Pinnochio straight through from the age of 6 months.
> 
> He jumps and bounces continually; I couldn't take him to church until he was about 7 because I couldn't effectively restrain him, and it was just too exhausting to manage him.
> 
> He has a hitch in his getalong...people can't see it unless they're pretty darned observant but it causes him to fall and not be as fast as he might be; he wears glasses.
> 
> He's smart, though..and he doesn't have any trouble concentrating. He likes to make really obnoxious, loud, senseless noises (waAAAAAHHHHHHHHH) over and over, he has a tendency to shout but doesn't have any hearing issues.
> 
> So he's a hyperactive kid.
> 
> My daughter is supremely hyperactive...she doesn't quit moving from the time she wakes up until she falls asleep. She doesn't have any difficulty sleeping though...but right up until the time she falls asleep, she is up and racing around doing stuff.
> 
> I had many people suggest I have the kids tested, and many people say "oh my gosh, what is WRONG with them?"...including my MOTHER, who is a NURSE. I maintained that there's nothing wrong with THEM. They are themselves, different, and unique, and very active and inquisitive and physical...they each have different things that can be considered *faults* or *disorders*...if I chose to seek diagnosis. But those very faults and disorders can be CHANNELED into positive character traits, and that is what I have been busting my ass to do since they were born.
> 
> I've aged. I don't have time to go to the gym or date, and I don't have the energy or the desire to. All my (considerable) focus, attention and concentration is on shaping them, with all their *faults*..into successful, productive members of society...without saddling them with the stigma of a diagnosis at a young age that will seriously curtail any chance they have of being successful or productive.
> 
> Don't get the diagnosis. Don't medicate him, unless he's having seizures (and even then, unless they're grand mal, medication isn't always the way to go). He doesn't need that shit. He needs to learn to cope with the issues he has. Tell the teachers to fuck themselves, they have no business suggesting anybody get kids treated for behavior disorders, unless they're attacking other children or cutting up cats on the playground. If they are pressuring you, pull him out of that school and get him in somewhere else.
> 
> That's my advice, as a mother I expect you to make up your own mind and I have no personal stake in it and won't presume to second guess you if you choose a different path. But keep in mind that my advice is based on working with special needs men and youth (who have years and years of medications under their belt), and as a parent of  3 absolutely challenging children, one of which had seizure disorder.
> 
> I know very well if I had taken my children into the doctor at the ages of 3 and 4, or even last year, I could easily have gotten a prescription from them, based on my statements and the statements of teachers/care providers etc. I chose not to, and I am thankful every single day that I didn't. They are developing into strong, bright individuals, and they are learning to cope with the issues they have...the impulse control issues (yup, we have that) and the sleep issues (yup) and the manic behavior (uh huh) and the racing thoughts (mm hmm)...
> 
> But it will age you. You're the one who is going to bear the brunt of their issues, if you choose to cope with your son's problems rather than medicate them. Because you're going to constantly be addressing various and assorted issues...giving him work arounds, staying up with him, walking him through difficulties, all that...it's going to land straight on you and you're not going to get any sleep. You'd get to sleep once in a while if you get the meds, because there will be times when he's completely doped up. And he will always know there's something wrong with him, because that medication will be there every single day, and there will always be people monitoring him, and drawing his blood, and adjusting his meds...
> 
> Make the world adjust to him, and help him to adjust as he must to the world. *But don't medicate him at the behest of teachers, and for the sake of getting a little sleep*.



It wasn't a teacher that requested this, because my son was not a problem in class, other than if he wasn't interested in what was going on he'd wander off and do his own thing.  The big problem was, he was about 6 or 7, wasn't learning to read and struggling with all his assignments.  He would cry in the morning because he didn't want to go to school!  My Dr. has studied ADD for years because his son has a combination of that and a few other problems, so he stayed up on all of it, he knew how to treat it.  

Ritalin did help my son a LOT, it helped him to learn to cope and concentrate when he needed to.  We didn't give it to him on weekends or summer, only when he went to school.  Children shouldn't stay on it for years and years, and he knew when he was ready to stop.  It helped him excel in school, and when he stopped taking it, he was able to continue to overcome it.  

Some kids can't take these drugs at all, my son had no side effects besides it would kinda slow him down, and he did get so he hated that....especially because he loved sports.  My nephew couldn't take it.  I actually think he was misdiagnosed, but his system seemed to reject anything they tried, almost to a point where he was mean.  He's close to 30 yrs old now, and still has troubles...getting into trouble, and he's not very social.

It's not for everyone....but all i can say is i didn't fry my sons brain with it....otherwise he wouldn't be where he is today.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> bullshit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How would you know?  Why would i lie about that?  Sorry to inform you, i am not making this up.....but you can think what you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> eots uses essays written by high school juniors, youtube videos, and internet poets to support his claims.
> 
> Everyone else uses data from the Center for Disease Control and World-wide health organizations.
> 
> Figuring out who has credability is not difficult.
Click to expand...


Samson  uses ad hominem  attacks to avoid addressing any of the indisputable facts I just presented...


----------



## eots

Againsheila said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain this..........
> 
> Because of its stimulant properties, however, in recent years there have been reports of its abuse by people for whom it is not a medication. These prescription tablets can create powerful *stimulant* effects and serious health risks when crushed and then snorted like cocaine, or injected like heroin.
> 
> Ritalin | The Partnership at Drugfree.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> explain what ? meth is a powerful stimulate for ever person..nowhere here does it say that "if you need it the effects are different" as you claim and like any drug if its snorted or especially injected it goes directly to the blood stream and is therefore more potent in its effect..all this does is confirm its a powerful cocaine like drug that junkies like...a good rule of thumb...if junkies want it its not good for kids
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually yes, a stimulant has the opposite effect on a person with hyperactivity.  I don't know why, I just know it does.
Click to expand...


actually... no it does not...LINK ?


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you really don't know shit about the medical condition of anyone, unless you are a DR and have examined them.
> 
> Neither do I.
> no link ..no credibility not even a youtube video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah...so what is the test for ADHD? It's not a brain disorder. It's a condition that consists of a variety of "symptoms" that, each taken alone or even in groups, signify nothing. It's when they are all evident in the body of one child that they want to medicate.
> 
> They're difficult behaviors. That's no reason to fry your kid's brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you know more than the entire Center for Disease Control and World Health Organization:
> 
> About half of mental disorders begin before the age of 14. Around 20% of the world's children and adolescents are estimated to have mental disorders or problems, with similar types of disorders being reported across cultures.
Click to expand...



*Bible of Psychiatry  the DSM-5,*
*
The DSM i*s used in the *United States and to various degrees around the world. It is used or relied upon by clinicians, researchers, psychiatric drug regulation agencies, health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and policy makers.* The current version is the DSM-IV-TR (fourth edition, text revision). The current DSM is organized into a five-part axial system. The first axis incorporates 'clinical disorders. The second axis covers personality disorders and intellectual disabilities. *The remaining axes cover medical, psychosocial, environmental, and childhood factors functionally necessary to provide diagnostic criteria for health care assessments.*



*So lets ask Dr Francis chairman of the dsm V*

In support of the criticisms Dr Frances wrote: We are already in the midst of a false epidemic of ADD. Rates in kids that were 3-5% when DSM IV was published in 1994 have now jumped to 10%. In part this came from changes in DSM IV, but most of the inflation was caused by a marketing blitz to practitioners that accompanied new on-patent drugs amplified by new regulations that also allowed direct to consumer advertising to parents and teachers. In a sensible world, DSM 5 would now offer much tighter criteria for ADD and much clearer advice on the steps needed in its differential diagnosis. The DSM 5 child and adolescent work group has perversely gone just the other way. It proposes to make an already far too easy diagnosis much looser. How puzzling and troubling. (Full blog by Dr Frances available at DSM 5 Will Further Inflate The ADD Bubble | Psychology Today )

He had previously (February 2010) raised concerns about the DSM5 proposal for ADHD along with 18 other DSM5 proposals including; Psychosis Risk Syndrome, Mixed Anxiety Depressive Disorder, Minor Neurocognitive Disorder, Binge Eating Disorder, Temper Dysfunctional Disorder, Paraphilic Coercive Disorder, Hypersexuality Disorder, Behavioral Addiction Conditions, Addiction Disorder, Autism Spectrum Disorder, Pedohebephilia and medicalising normal grief. (see Opening Pandora?s Box: The 19 Worst Suggestions For DSM5 - Psychiatric Times )

5, Dr Frances has identified that the DSMIV process he lead inadvertently helped trigger three false epidemics. One for Autistic Disorder another for the childhood diagnosis of Bi-Polar Disorder and the third for the wild over-diagnosis of Attention Deficit Disorder.1 

The putative diagnoses presented in DSM-V are clearly based largely on social norms, with symptoms that all rely on subjective judgements, with little confirmatory physical signs or evidence of biological causation. The criteria are not value-free, but rather reflect current normative social expectations. Many researchers have pointed out that psychiatric diagnoses are plagued by problems of reliability, validity, prognostic value, and co-morbidity.


----------



## Samson

Here's the other side, from the National Library of Medicine.



An update on central nervous system stimulant formulations in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.

Chavez B, Sopko MA Jr, Ehret MJ, Paulino RE, Goldberg KR, Angstadt K, Bogart GT.

*CONCLUSIONS: 




			Stimulants are effective medications to treat the symptoms of ADHD. The multiple available dosage forms allow for individualization of treatment.
		
Click to expand...

*


> *OBJECTIVE: *
> 
> To review recent literature on the different stimulant preparations regarding efficacy and safety in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and describe advantages and disadvantages of the many available dosage formulations.
> 
> *DATA SOURCES:*
> 
> Literature retrieval was performed through PubMed/MEDLINE (2005-December 2008) using the terms methylphenidate, amphetamines, central nervous system stimulants, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. In addition, reference citations from publications identified were reviewed and drug manufacturers were contacted for any possible additional references.
> 
> *STUDY SELECTION AND DATA EXTRACTION:*
> 
> Double-blind clinical trials found using the search criteria listed above were included for review. Open-label studies and studies prior to 2005 were included if no double-blind trials were published for that formulation within the time period reviewed.
> 
> *DATA SYNTHESIS: *
> 
> The literature reviewed here demonstrates the efficacy and safety of stimulant medications in children and adolescents with ADHD. However, there are 19 different formulations of stimulants, leading to confusion and errors in prescribing and dispensing of these drugs. Knowing and understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the different formulations can lead to individualized treatment. Formulations like *Concerta, Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, and Vyvanse provide the convenience of once-daily dosing*. Each of these provides varying amount of stimulants at different times of the day. Vyvanse has a unique delivery system that may lower the risk of patients abusing their medication. *Daytrana* gives patients more control over their dosing by being able to choose when the patch is removed; it is also a feasible alternative for children who cannot swallow pills. For patients who cannot swallow tablets or capsules, the capsules of *Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, Metadate-CD, and Ritalin-LA* can be opened and sprinkled on applesauce.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Here's the other side, from the National Library of Medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> An update on central nervous system stimulant formulations in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.
> 
> Chavez B, Sopko MA Jr, Ehret MJ, Paulino RE, Goldberg KR, Angstadt K, Bogart GT.
> 
> *CONCLUSIONS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stimulants are effective medications to treat the symptoms of ADHD. The multiple available dosage forms allow for individualization of treatment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *OBJECTIVE: *
> 
> To review recent literature on the different stimulant preparations regarding efficacy and safety in children and adolescents with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and describe advantages and disadvantages of the many available dosage formulations.
> 
> *DATA SOURCES:*
> 
> *Literature retrieval was performed through PubMed/MEDLINE (2005-December 2008) *using the terms methylphenidate, amphetamines, central nervous system stimulants, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. In addition, reference citations from publications identified were reviewed and *drug manufacturers were contacted for any possible additional references.*
> 
> *STUDY SELECTION AND DATA EXTRACTION:*
> 
> Double-blind clinical trials found u*sing the search criteria listed above *were included for review. Open-label studies and studies prior to 2005 were included_ *if no double-blind trials were published* for that formulation within the time period reviewed._
> 
> *DATA SYNTHESIS: *
> 
> The literature reviewed here demonstrates the efficacy and safety of stimulant medications in children and adolescents with ADHD.* However, there are 19 different formulations of stimulants, leading to confusion and errors in prescribing and dispensing of these drugs. *Knowing and understanding the advantages and disadvantages of the different formulations can lead to individualized treatment. Formulations like *Concerta, Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, and Vyvanse provide the convenience of once-daily dosing*. Each of these provides varying amount of stimulants at different times of the day. Vyvanse has a unique delivery system that may lower the risk of patients abusing their medication. *Daytrana* gives patients more control over their dosing by being able to choose when the patch is removed; it is also a feasible alternative for children who cannot swallow pills. For patients who cannot swallow tablets or capsules, the capsules of *Focalin-XR, Adderall-XR, Metadate-CD, and Ritalin-LA* can be opened and sprinkled on applesauce.
Click to expand...


there is no link to the study and it was clearly funded by the drug companies
you have no Idea what you just posted do you ?...and the chairman of The DSM
Is not the "other side..' he is honorable man admitting his errors


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> Delia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a fact, and we'll be right with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ritalin, or methylphenidate, is often used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity
> disorder (ADHD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD). Some of the many long-term
> effects of Ritalin use are reduced cerebral blood flow, increased energy consumption in
> many areas of the brain, permanent loss of brain tissue, life-long increased sensitivity to
> cocaine, and life-long increased rates of depression and anxiety.
Click to expand...


Wow, a drug with side effects.

No shit, Sherlock.


----------



## Samson

Intense said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, a drug with side effects.
> 
> No shit, Sherlock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want to live with those side effects?
Click to expand...


Well first I'd need to take RITALIN from a Doctor willing to be sued for malpractice.

If there was any credance to the moronic claim, then no physcian in his right mind would be perscribing RITILAN, and the FDA would pull it from the market.

However, given the fact that eots posted this, and has no credability, I wouldn't be too concerned if a reputable doctor perscribed this medication, and followed up (like they all do) with regular examinations, blood work, or whatever other proceedures are necessary.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, a drug with side effects.
> 
> No shit, Sherlock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want to live with those side effects?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well first I'd need to take RITALIN from a Doctor willing to be sued for malpractice.
> 
> If there was any credance to the moronic claim, then no physcian in his right mind would be perscribing RITILAN, and* the FDA would pull it from the market.*
> 
> However, given the fact that eots posted this, and has no credability, I wouldn't be too concerned if a reputable doctor perscribed this medication, and followed up (like they all do) with regular examinations, blood work, or whatever other proceedures are necessary.
Click to expand...


*you mean this FDA ?*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxWDsgBx4rk]FDA Whistleblower Spying Scandal - YouTube[/ame]


BILLIONS HAVE BEEN PAID OUT BY DRUG COMPANIES FOR PSYCH DRUG CLAIMS THEY HAVE BEEN FOUND CRIMINAL LIABLE..AND IT CHANGED NOTHING AND IS JUST A COST OF DOING BUSINESS

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHolKz6SZDs]Eli Lilly $1.42 Billion Zyprexa Settlement - Stephen Sheller on Fox News - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Samson

eots said:


> *On The Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories*
> 
> On the Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories by Dean Blehert



"Dean Blehert" wrote an essay and put it online.

Who the fuck is Dean Blehert?



I present information from the World Health Organization and Center for Disease Control, and eots posts an essay written by a high school junior.


----------



## eots

Samson said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> *On The Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories*
> 
> On the Validity of Brain Scans as Proofs of Psychiatric Theories by Dean Blehert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Dean Blehert" wrote an essay and put it online.
> 
> Who the fuck is Dean Blehert?
> 
> 
> 
> I present information from the World Health Organization and Center for Disease Control, and eots posts an essay written by a high school junior.
Click to expand...


so this is how you avoid the  congress condemnation of your beloved  FDA ?? the criminal liability resulting in billions in settlements in psych drug claims..how very lame of you


----------



## waltky

eots wrote: _There is no such thing as ADHD_

Granny says, "Dat's right - just give `em a lil' swat onna behind - dat'll stop dat ADHD crap...

*Research raises questions over ADHD drug effects*
_24 Nov.`15  - Researchers voiced concern on Wednesday about poor quality studies on the popular ADHD treatment Ritalin, saying evidence of some benefits, but also of sleep problems and appetite loss, suggests the drug should be prescribed with caution._


> Ritalin is sold by Swiss pharmaceutical firm Novartis NOVN.VX, known generically as methylphenidate and also sold under the brand names Concerta, Medikinet and Equasym. It has been used to treat Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)for more than 50 years.  The Cochrane Review researchers, who conducted a full assessment of studies on the benefits and harms of the Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) drug, said evidence on its use in children was poor.  "Our expectations of this treatment are probably greater than they should be," said Morris Zwi, a London-based consultant child and adolescent psychiatrist, who worked on the review.  "Whilst our review shows some evidence of benefit, we should bear in mind that this finding was based on very low-quality evidence. What we still need are large, well-conducted trials to clarify the risks versus the benefits."
> 
> Cochrane Reviews are conducted by international panels of independent researchers and considered as studies of the best available science on a topic.  Jonathan Green, a professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at Britain's Manchester University who was asked to comment on the Cochrane Review, said it would be "wrong to draw the conclusion ... that methylphenidate is ineffective.  "In fact, clinical level evidence strongly supports the effectiveness of methylphenidate for many children with ADHD."  The Cochrane Review included data from 185 randomized controlled trials involving more than 12,000 children or adolescents. The studies were conducted mainly in the United States, Canada and Europe, and each one compared Ritalin with either a placebo dummy pill or no intervention.
> 
> ADHD is one of the most commonly diagnosed childhood disorders and can continue through adolescence into adulthood.  Symptoms include difficulty focusing, impulsive behavior, and extreme hyperactivity. It is estimated to affect about 5 percent of children.  In their review, the Cochrane researchers found that Ritalin led to modest improvements in ADHD symptoms, general behavior, and quality of life, but that side-effects included a higher risk of sleep problems and loss of appetite.  The researchers added, however, that their confidence in the evidence was low since many of the trials were not conducted with sufficient rigor and results reporting was not complete.  "Clinicians prescribing methylphenidate must take account of the poor quality of the evidence, monitor treatment carefully, and weigh up the benefits and adverse effects," they said.
> 
> Research raises questions over ADHD drug effects


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.




Should read this before anything else,

Why French Kids Don't Have ADHD


----------



## Zoom-boing

I think the aliens took eots and terral.


----------



## IlarMeilyr

Luissa said:


> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.



Be very wary.

The so-called experts often try to medicate this problem.  Ritalin (and so forth) is not necessarily a solution.


----------



## Sarah G

IlarMeilyr said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a meeting with my son's teacher's and school psychologist, and they recommended I take him to a pediatrician that specializes in ADHD etc to be tested for ADHD. Many of you have might already know I have had my son in special programs since before he was two, and that they had diagnosed him with a sensory perception disorder when all this first started.
> 
> II have read some on it, but not a lot. The whole thing is scary at this point, for one I have no clue how I feel about medication, how to treat it, and even the diagnoses of ADHD. Feedback, recommendations, stories would be great. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be very wary.
> 
> The so-called experts often try to medicate this problem.  Ritalin (and so forth) is not necessarily a solution.
Click to expand...

This thread was from 2013 but I hope she found this advice back then checked into all of their options.


----------



## IlarMeilyr

Sarah:

I did miss the time and date stamp.

thank you.


----------

