# Still Haunted



## Unkotare (Apr 14, 2015)

70 years later and there are still survivors. Seems like something from a later era. 



Hiroshima survivors Haunted 70 years on determined to remember Japan Today Japan News and Discussion


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## gipper (Apr 14, 2015)

A tragic time in American and Japanese history.  A war crime that hopefully will never happen again...but I doubt it.  

You can take solace in knowing Truman is burning in Hell for eternity.


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## Impenitent (Apr 14, 2015)

Aboard Enola Gay I carry a curse
And to the world below I'll disperse
My half of a breeding pair
God please hear my prayer
From this Noah's Ark in reverse
__________________


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Me to, just like the rape of Nanking or what happened in Burma and  Unit 731. Japanese sort of brought it on them selves. Karma.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

And  Dec 7, I remember what happened then, let alone all the other crap they did. So when you think of Hiroshima, think of all those innocent Chinese  that died prior, and all the westerners they tried to slaughter but we stopped them...Jesus, are you kidding?


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## Unkotare (Apr 14, 2015)

The old bigot broad seems to be trying real hard to convince herself of something...


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

And  Dec 7, I remember what happened then, let alone all the other crap they did. So when you think of Hiroshima, think of all those innocent Chinese  that died prior, and all the westerners they tried to slaughter but we stopped them...Jesus, are you kidding?


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

And  Dec 7, I remember what happened then, let alone all the other crap they did. So when you think of Hiroshima, think of all those innocent Chinese  that died prior, and all the westerners they tried to slaughter but we stopped them...Jesus, are you kidding?


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Unkotare said:


> The old bigot broad seems to be trying real hard to convince herself of something...


And  Dec 7, I remember what happened then, let alone all the other crap they did. So when you think of Hiroshima, think of all those innocent Chinese  that died prior, and all the westerners they tried to slaughter but we stopped them...Jesus, are you kidding?  Are you this petty?


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

I get the feel you are Asian, no biggie.  But Defending TOJO is up there with defending Hitler, and either way or the other, they were going to get slammed by the Russian fist or American nukes. After what either  Japan or Germany did, don't play  the victim. Please.  Germany had the holocaust, japan, destroyed china,  tried to make it a colony, the greater  co prosperity  sphere or something like that, America cut off the petroleum supplies because we couldn't stand their atrocities in China, and we get bombed at Pearl Harbor. That makes Japan look like poor little innocent saints  after we nuke them?   Please.


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## Mr. H. (Apr 14, 2015)

gipper said:


> A tragic time in American and Japanese history.  A war crime that hopefully will never happen again...but I doubt it.
> 
> You can take solace in knowing Truman is burning in Hell for eternity.


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## gipper (Apr 14, 2015)

Pearl Harbor... Naval base populated by men of war.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki...two defenseless cities populated with women, children, and old men of a defeated nation.

Amazingly considered the same things to some Americans.


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## Unkotare (Apr 14, 2015)

MaryL said:


> I get the feel you are Asian, no biggie. ...




You're too stupid to guess well. Stop trying.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Hiroshima  and Nagasaki were terrible events. But they ended the war in short time. It's to bad the racist imperial fascist Japanese government couldn't have  been nice instead of perusing war and  caused this catastrophe to begin with. Invading  China needs lots of oil and America got a belly full of the atrocities. So we stopped  that, japan needs to do sneak attack on pearl harbor? Remember the precursors to Hiroshima/Nagasaki? Hell, given what happened at Fukashikma. Oh Boo hoo. Karma.


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## Unkotare (Apr 14, 2015)

Too bad the old bigoted broad is functionally illiterate as well as hopelessly stupid.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Ever read...slaughterhouse five? Dresden was firebombed, just like Tokyo. Tragic, just like Coventry in England. DAMN.  Damn  Fascists. start stuff, can't  take the ending. Hiroshima and Berlin got what their leaders created, end of story...


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## Gracie (Apr 14, 2015)

I hear those ships in Pearl Harbor are still haunted by the screams and cries of drowning BURNED men, too.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

I have known people that have passed on that lived through the sneak attack on Pearl, and my own father fought in the war and was shot  by a Japanese soldier on Attu island and survived. So ,I am not liking the  cause that drove Japanese during WWII. Tojo and the whole premise for war  against the west was driven by the Japanese to dominate China, and the fact America cut off petroleum to stop that. That   drove Japanese to saddle up with Hitler  and attack us on December 7, 1941. THAT is why the japs got nuked. Short story long....


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## Unkotare (Apr 14, 2015)

The word is "Japanese," you idiotic old bigot.


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## Gracie (Apr 14, 2015)

I admire the Japanese. But sometimes shit happens. Not all germans are nazis, not all japanese are murderers and rapists. Let's put this in perspective. What happened at Hiroshima was no worse than what happened at Pearl Harbor. Quid pro quo. War sucks.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Reap what you sow, Berlin, Hiroshima bombed to shit, and you think it matters how? Fascism lost.  So all the fawning over Hiroshima, are  you celebrating lost fascism, not innocent  dead victims of wars? Because Hiroshima  is one  thing,  not the end to the Holocaust and the genocide against innocent Chinese or Jews, not feeling the love here. Not feeling guilt here.


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## Unkotare (Apr 14, 2015)

Gracie said:


> . What happened at Hiroshima was no worse than what happened at Pearl Harbor. ...




Whatever your position on the use of the atomic bomb, that statement makes no sense.^^^


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## Unkotare (Apr 14, 2015)

MaryL said:


> Reap what you sow, Berlin, Hiroshima bombed to shit, and you think it matters how? Fascism lost.  So all the fawning over Hiroshima, are  you celebrating lost fascism, not innocent  dead victims of wars? Because Hiroshima  is one  thing,  not the end to the Holocaust and the genocide against innocent Chinese or Jews, not feeling the love here. Not feeling guilt here.




"fawning"?

???

Hiroshima survivors Haunted 70 years on determined to remember Japan Today Japan News and Discussion

"“My leg slid deep into one of them. Then it was very hard to pull my leg out ... To escape, I had no choice,” said Harada, the 75-year-old former head of an atomic bomb museum."

"Shuntaro Hida, 98, was an army surgeon at the time of the bombing. When he first went out after the explosion, he saw a woman with what he thought were tattered clothes hanging from her torso. Then he realised he was seeing her sloughed-off skin."

" “The cruelest aspect of a nuclear attack is not the savage destruction of human bodies or visible burns, but its life-destroying after-effects,” said Hida, who treated and advised some 10,000 atomic bomb survivors.

Hiroshima began to see an increased number of leukemia patients five year after the bombing."


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Unkotare said:


> Gracie said:
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Oh, it makes perfect sense if you actually read it and stop being prejudiced  and condescending. You are over your head here.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Right. And Japan didn't start this  goddamn  stupid war and American involvement, they weren't in an obscene war in China  since the frigin 30's and didn't kill god knows how many  innocent  Chinese. Nooooo, it's all about (ME ME ME Japanese with a guilt complex) Hiroshima! Ok, is  that  all there  is to this  thread,  superficial "factoids" and damn us if we know better. I like how you avoid  the fact JAPAN started the war. Get all insulting. ADDRESS THAT. Japan started the war.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

What do you expect if Japan or Germany had a nuke? think they will play
pinochle or something? They (Japanese too here) were  also
 exterminating innocent people, split hairs? Being pedantic or a prig, still, Japan  started the war. Japan Started the war. Can I say that yet again, is that to subtle? Japan started the war. Japan started the War  JAPAN STARTED THE WAR. So they weren't the victims YOU make them out to be. They were the major perpetrators, so stop splitting infinitives and look and the simple facts.


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 14, 2015)

The Japanese are a great people, but in the 30's and 40's they were duped by warmongers into committing atrocities across China and the Philippines....

...and then Pearl Harbor.  They wrote a check their asses couldn't cash.  Japan could be ruling over swaths of China and the pacific right now, but they made the mistake of fucking with the red, white and blue. 

Sorry America didn't want anymore of it's sons to die in the war the Japanese started.


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## MaryL (Apr 14, 2015)

Actua


TheOldSchool said:


> The Japanese are a great people, but in the 30's and 40's they were duped by warmongers into committing atrocities across China and the Philippines....
> 
> ...and then Pearl Harbor.  They wrote a check their asses couldn't cash.  Japan could be ruling over swaths of China and the pacific right now, but they made the mistake of fucking with the red, white and blue.
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> Sorry America didn't want anymore of it's sons to die in the war the Japanese started.


Bonzai! I think they  relished it, Kamikaze. Death for the emperor and all that, are you that ignorant?


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 14, 2015)

MaryL said:


> Actua
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Uh, what?


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## Gracie (Apr 14, 2015)

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
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> > Reap what you sow, Berlin, Hiroshima bombed to shit, and you think it matters how? Fascism lost.  So all the fawning over Hiroshima, are  you celebrating lost fascism, not innocent  dead victims of wars? Because Hiroshima  is one  thing,  not the end to the Holocaust and the genocide against innocent Chinese or Jews, not feeling the love here. Not feeling guilt here.
> ...


Like I said...war sucks. But Japan is what opened the pandora box. And they paid for it. Many died. You can't pick and choose which was more atrocious. Well, you can, but it makes you look pretty silly.


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## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2015)

MaryL said:


> Right. And Japan didn't start this  goddamn  stupid war and American involvement, they weren't in an obscene war in China  since the frigin 30's and didn't kill god knows how many  innocent  Chinese. ...



Are you really suggesting that the US dropped atomic bombs on Japanese civilians out of revenge for what happened in China?


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## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2015)

Gracie said:


> You can't pick and choose which was more atrocious. ..




Current topic aside, of course you can.


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## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2015)

MaryL said:


> Actua...
> Bonzai! I think they  relished it, Kamikaze. Death for the emperor and all that, are you that ignorant?




..................

Old broad got into the cooking sherry....


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## Gracie (Apr 15, 2015)

Unkotare said:


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Of course. But some will disagree with you on which atrocity was/is worse than another. Any way you look at it...Japan "started it" and we finished it. Japan and the USA get along pretty darn well now, so....why keep the crusted over shit stirred up? Both lost innocent people and not so innocent people. Both suffered loss. Both did what they thought was a good idea at the time and ONE won in the end. Lesson learned by all.


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## there4eyeM (Apr 15, 2015)

Yes, the Nazis and the militarists in power in Japan started the war. They committed horrendous acts that demean humanity. Fighting them led, unfortunately, to acts very similar to theirs; i.e., ethnic hatred and indiscriminate killing. 
There is no justification for using the atomic bombs, only excuses. It haunts America to have been the first to use them.


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## Unkotare (Apr 15, 2015)

Gracie said:


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Not among reasonable people. If one soldier sneaks up on another solider and kills him, sparking a war, reasonable people can recognize that action as causal but still realize that slaughtering thousands of civilians is still a moral outrage of another order.


Even current topic aside.


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## gipper (Apr 15, 2015)

Americans need to read about conditions Japanese civilians endured in 1945.  Americans have no clue how bad things were.  They need to read about the horrendous conditions in Hiroshima and Nagasaki following the a-bombings.  Until they do, they are ignorant of the facts.  

Killing innocent civilians on a massive scale, because of the acts of their despotic government over which they had no control, is a war crime and entirely unjustified.  It is no different than what the tyrannical regimes of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan committed.


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## Gracie (Apr 15, 2015)

Atrocities happen all over the world. I ain't gonna pick one and say it was the worst. But, everyone has their own decisions on what to focus on.

Kinda like some people donate to cancer or childrens hospitals or pizza parlors. Some leave all their money to dog pounds, the aspca, zoos. Whatever floats whomevers boat. *shrug*


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


> A tragic time in American and Japanese history.  A war crime that hopefully will never happen again...but I doubt it.
> 
> You can take solace in knowing Truman is burning in Hell for eternity.


exactly,as you well know,thats another lie  about our history our corrupt schools have conditioned and programmed americans into thinking in our propaganda history classes always leaving out the key detail that Japen had offered to surrender and our corrupt government and that bastard Truman ignored the plea.


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## Pop23 (Apr 16, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> The Japanese are a great people, but in the 30's and 40's they were duped by warmongers into committing atrocities across China and the Philippines....
> 
> ...and then Pearl Harbor.  They wrote a check their asses couldn't cash.  Japan could be ruling over swaths of China and the pacific right now, but they made the mistake of fucking with the red, white and blue.
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> Sorry America didn't want anymore of it's sons to die in the war the Japanese started.



My father was wounded on Utah beach. As a sailor of an LCI, after Germany surrendered he was sure he would be shipped off to the Pacific for the final push on Japan.

What happened there is tragic, yet it likely did save in overall deaths.


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

Pop23 said:


> TheOldSchool said:
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I use to believe that too...that the a-bombs saved American lives.  It is bullshit and used to justify the incineration of innocent Japanese women, children, and old men.  Logically there can be no justification for the cold blooded murder of innocents.

You like most Americans are uninformed on this issue.


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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What do you think the Japanese would have done if they'd managed to invade us?  What did they do to the Chinese and Filipino's?  They were prepared to fight to the last man.  Not even a nuclear bomb deterred them from continuing to fight.  So we had to drop a second one.


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


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So now you justify Truman's heinous act, by claiming our enemies would do it to us.  

And killing civilians who have no say in the actions of their government, is foolish.


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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That didn't stop ANYBODY in WW2.  Every single country involved targeted civilians.  It's easy to be self-righteous from your comfy computer chair 70 years later when your side's casualty count isn't currently in the millions.


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## LA RAM FAN (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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amen. so very true on all counts.


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## peach174 (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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If they had believed the warning flyiers dropped a few days ahead of time and had left, but no they chose to believe their lying leader.
It is not cold blooded when you warn them and they choose not to leave.


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

peach174 said:


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Yeah...we warned them and they failed to listen, so killing them is cool.

When will these silly justifications for history's greatest war crime, ever stop.


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


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Again....since everybody is doing it, we can too.

You can't justify mass murder of innocents, so you resort to strawman tactics.


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## peach174 (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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You are the one who said cool not me.
It is not cool at all.
The Japanese started the war with us and we ended it.
The Japanese who lived through those horrible bombs never blamed us they blamed their leader.
They got it and still do get it, but you younger Americans refuse to get it and try to blame America.
It's pathetic.


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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You are not in a war that's cost millions of lives.  You have no idea what conditions were like then.  Like I said, it's easy to be self-righteous from your comfy computer chair 70 years later.


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

peach174 said:


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You know not what you speak.  I am not a younger American.  I believed the statist tripe you do, but then I educated myself.  You should try it.

And to think the Japanese do not blame Truman, is foolish.


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


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Bullshit.

By your "logic"...since one is not alive at the time, one can't analyze and make conclusions on the actions taken by our leaders.  Could you get more silly?


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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I'm sure they do.  Much like the Chinese blame the Japanese for the brutal tortures inflicted upon them.  I bet they had no problem with the bomb.


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## peach174 (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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And believing Internet lies is not education.

I watched interviews of them when they were flown here to America to be treated for their burns. They were very well educated, spoke English and they knew that their Emperor started the war with us.

How about you educating yourself and read some books written and interviewed by the survivors?


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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Put yourselves in their shoes.  You have a secret weapon that can completely end the war against brutal people that have killed millions.  They suicide bomb your ships, they torture captives, they kill innocents and soldiers alike, and THEY STARTED IT.  You either risk millions of American casualties invading the mainland of Japan, all the while causing mass civilian casualties and bombing their cities because that was the norm for WW2; or you drop a bomb showing your superiority to end the war in one swift move.  Oh wait, they are absolutely hell bent on killing as many Americans as they can before they're defeated so they still don't surrender after one bomb.  So you drop 2.  War over, we learn how bad nukes are, and Japan goes on to become one of the wealthiest and most important countries in the world.


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## williepete (Apr 16, 2015)

*American POWs used for live experiments in Japan, according to new museum *
*Eight crew of a US bomber shot down in May 1945 used in medical experiments in a case that Japan has tried to forget *
American POWs used for live experiments in Japan according to new museum - Telegraph

I lived in Japan for two years where I developed an admiration of modern Japanese society and a genuine fondness for the Japanese people that will last to the end of my days. The militaristic Japan of the 20's, 30's and 40's was a far cry from the civilized people of today's Japan.

Still haunted? Good. The lesson should stick for several more generations to the benefit of Japan, her neighbors and her allies.


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

peach174 said:


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And you think that justifies massive murder...


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## gipper (Apr 16, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


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You are uninformed.

The war was over long before the a-bombs dropped.

Truman dropped them because he was a racist and he wanted to impress the mass murderer Stalin.


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## TheOldSchool (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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The war was long over? 

Interesting you bring up Stalin.  So how many Japanese, American, and Russian casualties _do_ you think that Truman prevented by scaring Stalin?  In the tens of millions?  Or just millions?


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## peach174 (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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There is no justification in Wars. War is hell and you fight to win rather than losing it and becoming part of country who wins if you lose.
I personally would not want have wanted to be part of Japan or Nazi Germany if either of them had won.
Thinking like you do is what makes Americans lose our Wars. It must be fought fairly and must be justified is bullshit.
From the actual thoughts of one of the many survivors.
Tomiko Morimoto  believes that only a total unequivocal victory by the Allies would have convinced the Japanese population that their war effort was hopeless, that they must lay down their arms and try to move on.
Many survivors if not all believes this.
This comes from a book and not the internet so there is no link.
If you actually listen to our WWII vets they all say they fought like a savage and then became human again after the battle. This type of thinking is what wins our Wars.
Not the Political Correct bullshit of today of, we must fight fairly and it must be justified. If this type of thinking is not changed, it's going to get us all killed.
PC is exactly why we had the Boston bombing.


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## peach174 (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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You should stop reading the lies on the internet and go to a library near you and read real history books about this subject.
You are making a fool of yourself.


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## Gracie (Apr 16, 2015)

It's official. Gipper gibbers. On iggie he goes.


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## Pop23 (Apr 16, 2015)

gipper said:


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I'm uninformed on the issue?

Let's see, Father wounded on Utah beach? Check

Uncle fought about everywhere in the Pacific. Check

A second uncle survived the Battaan death march. Check

I think I had some excellent teachers chump!

You can't make this chit up.


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## gipper (Apr 17, 2015)

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Illogical.  Because family members served, you are informed.  I think not.  

My father and uncle served in Europe too...and I thought like you that the a-bombs saved them from an invasion of Japan and possible death....but then I got informed.  My father was in southern France preparing for transit to Japan, when the war ended.

It is not anti-American to know the truth.  You will find no one more pro-american than I.


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## gipper (Apr 17, 2015)

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If you are man enough, read this one article.  Then...if you can handle it, I will assign further reading for you to complete, but I doubt you are man enough.
Mises Daily Mises Institute


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## gipper (Apr 17, 2015)

If that is too much reading for you, try this short column that details the horrors and nearly all Americans don't about...if you can stomach it...

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance180.html


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## peach174 (Apr 17, 2015)

gipper said:


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Well I hope I'm not because I'm female. 

Of course Austria is going to want to rewrite the history of it.
These types are always preying on the gullible, when all they want is to make the horrors of the Nazi Regime and what the Japanese did, not as bad as they really were.
Too many are buying into this BS hook line and sinker.
Like I said you should read the diaries from the actual people who did survive those bombs. That is the actual truth right from the witnesses themselves. Not the blame America game.


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## Moonglow (Apr 17, 2015)

Had the Japs developed a nuclear or atom bomb, make no mistake they would have used it on their enemies also...Japan should not have started something they couldn't finish...


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## peach174 (Apr 17, 2015)

gipper said:


> If that is too much reading for you, try this short column that details the horrors and nearly all Americans don't about...if you can stomach it...
> 
> http://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance180.html


 
Well this article proves that he does not know his history very well, because it was not just all about bombing pearl harbor.
They used cutthroat trade practices to sell textiles and other light industrial goods in the East Asian and U.S. markets, severely undercutting British and European manufacturers. They also developed sources of raw materials and heavy industry in the colonies they established in Korea, Taiwan and Manchuria. Japan used high tariffs to limit imports of American and European industrial products.
The Japanese military faced a particular tactical problem in that certain critical raw materials — *especially oil and rubber* but lets just forget this little detail and what they did to get those items.
Americans were not the bad guys, the Japs and Nazi's were.


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## gipper (Apr 17, 2015)

Moonglow said:


> Had the Japs developed a nuclear or atom bomb, make no mistake they would have used it on their enemies also...Japan should not have started something they couldn't finish...


Stupid as usual.  When Truman committed his war crimes Japan was defeated and had been trying to surrender.  And again dummy, because they would nuke us does not justify nuking them.


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## gipper (Apr 17, 2015)

peach174 said:


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Yeah let's forget FDR deceitfully maneuvering Japan to strike first by denying raw materials oil and freezing they assets. Plus knowing they would strike Pearl days before it happened and not warning commanders there...then scapegoating them.
Americans are not the bad guys, but their leadership is...just like today.


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## Moonglow (Apr 17, 2015)

gipper said:


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They were warned over thirty days in advance of a possible attack, yet no one knew the exact date and time..


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## Moonglow (Apr 17, 2015)

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Wrong sex..


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## gipper (Apr 17, 2015)

Moonglow said:


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Stupid again...since we warned them it is okay to nuke woman and children...can't fix stupid.


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## peach174 (Apr 17, 2015)

gipper said:


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Those women and children who wrote about their experiences said that is was necessary because of the way the regime was.


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## Moonglow (Apr 17, 2015)

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Nuke or fire bombing we did it, it's called industrialized warfare...The war was horrendous as the show cause for man's inhumanity to man, yet we didn't attack Japan nor did we attack Germany, they made that decision....So all types of weaponry were used..so??


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## peach174 (Apr 17, 2015)

Moonglow said:


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I guess that they wanted Japan or Germany to win.


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## Old Rocks (May 6, 2015)

Unkotare said:


> 70 years later and there are still survivors. Seems like something from a later era.
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> Hiroshima survivors Haunted 70 years on determined to remember Japan Today Japan News and Discussion


Next Friday we have a memorial service for one of my uncle's. He was in one of the first waves of Marines to hit the beach in Okinawa. And fought the whole campaign. For him, Hiroshima saved his life. Had they had to continue to invade the islands with the kind of loses that we sustained on Okinawa, it is not likely that he would have made it home. Hiroshima was terrible and neccessary.


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