# A Canadian Town Offends Some Muslims



## Annie (Feb 2, 2007)

by doing the right thing:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/070130/canada/canada_stoning_col_2



> Quebec town to immigrants: you can't kill women
> 
> Tue Jan 30, 4:50 PM
> 
> ...


and on que:



> Salam Elmenyawi, president of the Muslim Council of Montreal, said the declaration had "set the clock back for decades" as far as race relations were concerned.
> 
> "I was shocked and insulted to see these kinds of false stereotypes and ignorance about Islam and our religion ... in a public document written by people in authority who discriminate openly," he told Reuters.


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## 90K (Feb 2, 2007)

This town has a set of balls I say:  You see the old saying when in Rome do as Romans anyone remember that one?  What the hell happened in the west when these people from muslims nations started invading our lands and pushing there lifestyles on us!  So this town stands up and says you'll act in accordance with our lifestyle ways.  Good for them keep your home and community in check we could learn from those liberal Canadians for once!   
I&#8217;m a immigrant from Ireland and even though I was young when we came to the US, our family always followed the rules in every community we lived in, it is just the rules back then and we as a Nation should stop being or hiding behind political correctness and offend these immigrants and make our stand that this is our country and you live by our rules. If you don&#8217;t like it then leave!
And if they are offended has anyone ever thought we are offended by there actions and ill natures they do?


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## Gurdari (Feb 2, 2007)

I guess that logic assumes, Toronto could post notice to all US visitors: 
"We do not allow child molestation, infanticide, rape, or the pouring of toxic waste into our waters. SO stay out of Canada if you want to bring that shit up here."

No one could get offended at that, could they? 
Only because there are SOME Americans who have done, and will do those nasty things - not all Americans do.


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## theHawk (Feb 6, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> I guess that logic assumes, Toronto could post notice to all US visitors:
> "We do not allow child molestation, infanticide, rape, or the pouring of toxic waste into our waters. SO stay out of Canada if you want to bring that shit up here."
> 
> No one could get offended at that, could they?
> Only because there are SOME Americans who have done, and will do those nasty things - not all Americans do.



Bad analogy, our laws don't allow such things.  Islamic law on the other hand does allow for the things that were mentioned.
Or are you actually going to tell us that places like Saudi Arabia don't allow such things?


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## 90K (Feb 6, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> I guess that logic assumes, Toronto could post notice to all US visitors:
> "We do not allow child molestation, infanticide, rape, or the pouring of toxic waste into our waters. SO stay out of Canada if you want to bring that shit up here."
> 
> No one could get offended at that, could they?
> Only because there are SOME Americans who have done, and will do those nasty things - not all Americans do.



I can't understand why some people bring up things that arent really on the same level.  Point being this story was about muslims and religious beliefs being forced on a community. Again I using a once well known theory of acting in foreign lands: 
*When in Rome do as the Romans  *


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## Gurdari (Feb 7, 2007)

90K said:


> Point being this story was about muslims and religious beliefs being forced on a community. Again I using a once well known theory of acting in foreign lands:
> *When in Rome do as the Romans  *



No muslim beliefs were being forced on this town, they made a pre-emptive and unnecessary set of rules that apply to nobody in the town... using cultural stereotypes that DO take place in some countries, yes, but not things that are actually Islamic... do Muslims in Toronto do these things? Don't we have laws that already state those things are illegal?

And nobody arriving in North America, including the white man ever completely respected the original inhabitants way of life... keep in mind the Roman hypocrisy of going to foreign lands and acting like THEY were still in Rome.


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## 90K (Feb 7, 2007)

Ancient history about the Indians, they truly got the bad end of the deal.  Middle Eastern folk arriving here in the Northern Hemisphere should respect our country or get out!  Need to take a trip to Detroit and get a birdseye view how things are going?  I personally have no issue with there religious views as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try and change my homeland in the process.  Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia?  If not you need to make a trip and see again first hand at the way things are done over there.  They may deserve to live in our parts but they must respect our land.  If they can't it will result in very negative results and everyone will feel it.


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## trobinett (Feb 7, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> No muslim beliefs were being forced on this town,



No, I believe your wrong, that was the reason for the action of the town fathers.



> they made a pre-emptive and unnecessary set of rules that apply to nobody in the town...



It called closing the gate BEFORE the cows get out, and, if you know the rules, then you play by the rules, seems simple enough.



> using cultural stereotypes that DO take place in some countries, yes, but not things that are actually Islamic...



I'm sure there is a point in this statement, it just escapes me. 



> do Muslims in Toronto do these things?



Yes, constantly.



> Don't we have laws that already state those things are illegal?



Not sure, but they sure have them NOW, and they are crystal clear, wouldn't you agree?



> And nobody arriving in North America, including the white man ever completely respected the original inhabitants way of life...



Now, THAT is a lame statement.  Kinda follow the leader kind of thing.  So if everybody has been committing suicide in the town, then it's OK for new comers  to KEEP committing suicide?

Besides, pre-emptive would insure against someone NOT respecting your customs, and laws, wouldn't you agree?



> keep in mind the Roman hypocrisy of going to foreign lands and acting like THEY were still in Rome.



Which is what the Muslim's do, which is wrong, and that was the reason for the city fathers to take the action they did.


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## Gurdari (Feb 8, 2007)

trobinett said:


> No, I believe your wrong, that was the reason for the action of the town fathers.
> 
> ~As stated, there are no immigrants (except white euro) in the town, so reacting with rules for people who aren't even present is less about protection, more about sending a message.
> 
> ...



~Okay - I didn't realise ALL Muslims did that, seems like an exhaustive research project, recording the actions of almost a billion people. Kudos, unless you were stereotyping...


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## Gurdari (Feb 8, 2007)

Also, the cultural practices of honor killings, acid throwing, etc have moro to do with the COUNTRY, or REGION involved, than Islam... that is what I meant. Much like the culture of christian nations differs, so does that of muslim nations...


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## Gurdari (Feb 8, 2007)

90K said:


> Ancient history about the Indians, they truly got the bad end of the deal.  Middle Eastern folk arriving here in the Northern Hemisphere should respect our country or get out!  Need to take a trip to Detroit and get a birdseye view how things are going?  I personally have no issue with there religious views as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try and change my homeland in the process.  Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia?  If not you need to make a trip and see again first hand at the way things are done over there.  They may deserve to live in our parts but they must respect our land.  If they can't it will result in very negative results and everyone will feel it.



I agree Suadi Arabia (not exactly a true Islamic country) is horrible, human rights violations, and autocratic government make that place an example of rigid religion gone worse. ANy country that cares about human rights should distance themselves, or apply international presure on them to treat their citizens humanely. Same goes for a host of others too. 

However, the make up of a country is dependent on those who live there, and as America's make up changes - so will America. That is only a bad thing if you believe your way is supreme, but maybe there is room for several interpretations of 'nation', as long as its democratic, things will hopefully work out.


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## 90K (Feb 8, 2007)

I don't believe our way is the supreme way. I just don't agree we as a nation should be required to bend and contort to other lifestyes other than ours.  It is wrong and should not be tolerated.  Maybe too simple for some but if a line isn't drawn then what do we stand for?


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## Gurdari (Feb 8, 2007)

Why do you see this as some war? Some clash of cultures, right now you live in a mix of different cultures and its great. Less xenophobia, and you might not view things as a line in the sand.


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## 90K (Feb 8, 2007)

It is a war of sorts because we don't fully know who is about living with us or causing strife among us.  This is way more than religious freedom here; their whole twisted life style has effects on us as a culture. I'm a immigrant from Ireland and I lived my life up to age nine in constant fear of the Brits and we lived in a IRA controlled neighborhood. The Brits would break our door down in the middle of the night and accuse us of being on the take, constant hassle and we are protestant too boot in a Catholic hood. So yeah I'm hip to understand following rules being part of the solution and keeping my cultural beliefs from hindering others whom are in the majority.


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## Gurdari (Feb 8, 2007)

90K said:


> It is a war of sorts because we don't fully know who is about living with us or causing strife among us.  This is way more than religious freedom here; their whole twisted life style has effects on us as a culture. I'm a immigrant from Ireland and I lived my life up to age nine in constant fear of the Brits and we lived in a IRA controlled neighborhood. The Brits would break our door down in the middle of the night and accuse us of being on the take, constant hassle and we are protestant too boot in a Catholic hood. So yeah I'm hip to understand following rules being part of the solution and keeping my cultural beliefs from hindering others whom are in the majority.



Not sure I understand, sounds like the British, were pretty heavy handed, and your family was in an oppressive situation. Why would you think it was your responsibility to fit in with that? ("I'm hip to understand following rules being part of the solution and keeping my cultural beliefs from hindering others whom are in the majority")

Why would you want to treat others that way after you lived it?


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## 90K (Feb 8, 2007)

My point is I go with the flow and I worship the same God that my country American was initially founded under.  I don't have a huge Cross in my yard, although I could because it is my freedom.  But my point is about this town and these foreigners are they need to step up and denounce terror. Practice what they preach and all would be better. But it is totally obvious that all Middle Eastern people are spineless in this area and this is why many don't trust them and find them all guilty or being terror subjects.  I'm honest and I know this to be somewhat true.  If a KKK cross is burning in a Black persons yard, I'd stand up against it because it not only reflects fear if I don't but not all white folks are part of that very non-sense.  That is my point and until muslims as a whole step up and denounce terror it isn't gonna change.  And one other fact is we here in the US actually have accepted muslims even though we keep having some say that muslim beliefs are peaceful. Wasn't mohammad a warrior?  Where is the peace in that?

 My example maybe considered on the edge but it was the point of the situation I am making and a town or community has the right to speak up and against things they don't agree on.  As the Middle Eastern folks call us infidel so we don't trust them same~same


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## Gurdari (Feb 12, 2007)

90K said:


> But my point is about this town and these foreigners are they need to step up and denounce terror. Practice what they preach and all would be better.
> 
> But it is totally obvious that all Middle Eastern people are spineless in this area and this is why many don't trust them and find them all guilty or being terror subjects.  I'm honest and I know this to be somewhat true.
> 
> ...



The trick is for the west to stop supporting terror - then maybe we would have a little credibility on denouncing violence, would we think muslims were peaceful if it was THEIR troops all over north america? for OUR protection and THEIR 'interests'? I think I'd react violently to any nation that bombs mine, no matter what that nation and their friends think is 'right'. Be careful - saying ALL muslims, is like saying all christians, or all jews... unless you've personally interviewed a billion people, it sounds far fetched (and prejudiced).

Muslims DO denounce terror though - all the time. Remember that massive car bomb in Lebabnon, timed to kill the most worshippers possible right when people were exiting the mosque? Scary civillian deaths, very terrifying... no news play here maybe, but denounced by muslims just the same...


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## 90K (Feb 12, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> The trick is for the west to stop supporting terror - then maybe we would have a little credibility on denouncing violence, would we think muslims were peaceful if it was THEIR troops all over north america? for OUR protection and THEIR 'interests'? I think I'd react violently to any nation that bombs mine, no matter what that nation and their friends think is 'right'. Be careful - saying ALL muslims, is like saying all christians, or all jews... unless you've personally interviewed a billion people, it sounds far fetched (and prejudiced).
> 
> Muslims DO denounce terror though - all the time. Remember that massive car bomb in Lebabnon, timed to kill the most worshippers possible right when people were exiting the mosque? Scary civillian deaths, very terrifying... no news play here maybe, but denounced by muslims just the same...



I have a person who denouces it openly like no other I've heard of.
http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/
First hand experience this woman has, she knows both sides all too well.


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## Gurdari (Feb 12, 2007)

If she was born MUSLIM instead of Christian, and it was her refugee camp that was massacred by Christian militia during the first Lebanon/Israelie punch-up, she would still denounce terrorism I guess... but with very different points of view, maybe different 'enemies' too. She would be better to denounce the thing she hates, rather than only when 'others' do it.


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## Gurdari (Feb 12, 2007)

90K said:


> I have a person who denouces it openly like no other I've heard of.
> http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/
> First hand experience this woman has, she knows both sides all too well.



We don't hear a whole lot about Muslims denouncing terror, only waving AKs and chanting in huge marches, in fact the Iraqi Democracy movement was something I only heard about after the latest invasion... even though they were around, begging for help to make Iraq more democratic for years. Where was the liberal media on that one...? If only they'd told Bush he had allies!


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## 90K (Feb 12, 2007)

Again I say it takes the muslim community around the world to stand up against terror, if they can't then who in there right minds could actually respect them as a culture and second as a religious sect in the world.  Are the majority of the muslims living a lesser life than these radicals?  if that is the case then it is fully understood why the majority of the muslims can't speak out against jihad or terror.


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## Gurdari (Feb 12, 2007)

90K said:


> Again I say it takes the muslim community around the world to stand up against terror, if they can't then who in there right minds could actually respect them as a culture and second as a religious sect in the world.  QUOTE]
> 
> Again, it takes the secular, Christian, and western people to stand up and STOP commiting teror, and start denouncing it, if they can't, who in their right mind could respect them as a culture?


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## Gurdari (Feb 12, 2007)

We don't like terror committed against us, neither do they. Nobody seems to have much trouble when their friends or themselves commit anything...


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## Hagbard Celine (Feb 12, 2007)

90K said:


> Again I say it takes the muslim community around the world to stand up against terror, if they can't then who in there right minds could actually respect them as a culture and second as a religious sect in the world.  Are the majority of the muslims living a lesser life than these radicals?  if that is the case then it is fully understood why the majority of the muslims can't speak out against jihad or terror.



They speak out, but not nearly enough. The vocal minority of Islamic extremists drowns the rest of the Muslim community out. The extremists make up a very small minority of Muslims world wide. I half way agree with you. To get rid of Muslim extremism we need the entire Muslim nation to stand up against extremism. I get the feeling that the reason they haven't is because deep down most Muslims are apologists for the behavior.


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## Gurdari (Feb 12, 2007)

Hagbard Celine said:


> They speak out, but not nearly enough. The vocal minority of Islamic extremists drowns the rest of the Muslim community out. The extremists make up a very small minority of Muslims world wide. I half way agree with you. To get rid of Muslim extremism we need the entire Muslim nation to stand up against extremism. I get the feeling that the reason they haven't is because deep down most Muslims are apologists for the behavior.



Sounds like the small, very vocal minorities in North America.


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## Hagbard Celine (Feb 12, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> Sounds like the small, very vocal minorities in North America.



Who might you be referring to?


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## Gurdari (Feb 12, 2007)

Well, in Canada, only about five entities control all media... and down south it's about the same or worse. Now, before I sound paranoid, I know there are tons of poor, working-class lefties that sit on the board of directors of national media and their biggest advertisers, I just think they let the right-wing, moneyed, militaristic elements run the show.

Even the left-leaning pubs like the Toronto Star have righty writers and called the Iraq situation a 'war'.


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## Said1 (Feb 16, 2007)

People, people, people. This QUEBEC we're talking about. I mean really, they're against EVERYTHING that isn't FRENCH. Really. It's true.


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## Said1 (Feb 16, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> Well, in Canada, only about five entities control all media... and down south it's about the same or worse. Now, before I sound paranoid, I know there are tons of poor, working-class lefties that sit on the board of directors of national media and their biggest advertisers, I just think they let the right-wing, moneyed, militaristic elements run the show.
> 
> Even the left-leaning pubs like the Toronto Star have righty writers and called the Iraq situation a 'war'.



Heh? What five entities? What are you taking about?


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## Gurdari (Feb 17, 2007)

Said1 said:


> Heh? What five entities? What are you taking about?



From wikipedia

Apart from the public Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, commercial media in Canada are primarily owned by a small number of companies, including *CTVglobemedia, Canwest Global, CHUM, Rogers, Standard, Shaw, Astral, Newcap and Quebecor*. Each of these companies holds a diverse mix of television, cable television, radio, newspaper, magazine and/or internet operations. Some smaller media companies also exist.


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## Gurdari (Feb 17, 2007)

My mistake, it wasn't five, it's a few more. (see above post)


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## Said1 (Feb 17, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> From wikipedia
> 
> Apart from the public Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, commercial media in Canada are primarily owned by a small number of companies, including *CTVglobemedia, Canwest Global, CHUM, Rogers, Standard, Shaw, Astral, Newcap and Quebecor*. Each of these companies holds a diverse mix of television, cable television, radio, newspaper, magazine and/or internet operations. Some smaller media companies also exist.




Where's the link?

Actually, up until recently one person owned most of it. He still owns the Jersalem times, and possibly a few other venues, not sure at this point.

Anyway, what does this have to do with your original point about vocal minorities in the first place? The majority of those companies listed above broadcast American sitcoms, dramas, all news stations such as CNN and FOX. Aside from local stations, which feed off the lager outlets for major news stories, we see what you see.

CBC, no make that Canada, is nortoriously left leaning regardless of media ownership. That I do know.


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## Said1 (Feb 17, 2007)

Gurdari said:


> My mistake, it wasn't five, it's a few more. (see above post)



Did you Al Gore's company owns our all news station?


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## Gurdari (Feb 18, 2007)

Said1 said:


> Where's the link?
> 
> Actually, up until recently one person owned most of it. He still owns the Jersalem times, and possibly a few other venues, not sure at this point.
> 
> ...



No link - sorry, it was tough to find and I forgot, anyway my original point was roughly that, about small numbers controlling what the rest see/hear about, what gets debated, what doesn't, even who GETS to debate (see Green party vs CTV in Canada). Then I got onto the media thing and so on...

Lastly, news that reviews ugly truths about military ventures, or big business is not automatically 'left leaning'.


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