# Tea Party Free Market; Explain why it's a good thing



## AntiParty (Mar 26, 2014)

Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 26, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



What's a totally free market?

Where does such a thing exist?


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## AntiParty (Mar 26, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> AntiParty said:
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You should make your own post on those questions. I'm simply questioning the Tea Party Platform. Different questions ..........heh.

(Note; I made this question because I knew the Tea Party would crumble when asked a question about their platform. Same thing happened to Libertarians. They fought HARD for recognition and then when they got it they just exposed the *buffoons* they are)

Or maybe you can just answer it


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 26, 2014)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVkbr0LSTg0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVkbr0LSTg0[/ame]


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 26, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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Well why should anybody bother answering? Doesn't really look like you're interested in what anybody has to say.


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## AntiParty (Mar 27, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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Oh yea. I really need to make a post about the small brains that don't answer questions and use phrases such as, "I reject the premise of your question" in order not to answer them (I reject the premise of your question is a Fox News go-to. You see, if you believe in the Free Market, you should be able to debate it. If you can't debate it, why would you believe in it?

More proof the people that repeat "The free market is good" don't know a thing about the free market....


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## AntiParty (Mar 27, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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Free Market's is in your signature. Tell me more  Why so scared?


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## Lonestar_logic (Mar 27, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



A free market allows competition dumbass. Without competition prices would be a lot higher. 

Damn you people are stupid!


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 27, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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I don't reject the premise of your question, I simply don't see how any real discussion is possible when you've already said anybody who thinks the free market is a good thing is essentially an idiot. You don't want to discuss the free market, you want to insult people. That's boring.


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## AntiParty (Mar 27, 2014)

Lonestar_logic said:


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The regulated market allows competition. We have what is called a "highly regulated market" by some today and we still see competition. 

The funny thing is you probably back Citizens United because you think "corporations are people" yet hate regulations like lead paint in childrens toys. 

Sure, when you compete with a Country that has no regulation, their prices are lower. That's not rocket science, that's just basics. What you have to ask yourself is what should your family and Country be exposed to or live like. 

The Uniteded States Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) Commerce claus. The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States,"

So do you back the Constitution or Free Markets? Your "party" seems to be at an impass on their platform.


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## jc456 (Mar 28, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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So why are you here? Go away and play with your own ball.


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## bripat9643 (Mar 28, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



First you explain why having government tell you what you can do and what you can't do is good.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 28, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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Clearly you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about


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## Toddsterpatriot (Mar 28, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



I like pudding.


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## AntiParty (Apr 3, 2014)

bripat9643 said:


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Well the Constitution has a Commerce Clause that says government can regulate Commerce. 

Are you against the Constitution?


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## AntiParty (Apr 3, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


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I asked the question. You failed and you trolled. Deal with it.


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 3, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



Because you don't like it.


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 3, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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It does?

The regulated market for taxis  limits the number of taxis, and prohibits anyone form competing with them. 

The regulated cable market  makes it illegal for any other cable company to offer a competing service.

I must be missing something, perhaps it is your ability to completely ignore reality.


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 3, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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Except it doesn't actually say that.



> To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;



Since I am not a foreign nation, a state, or an Indian tribe, Congress should have no say over any commercing I do.


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## AntiParty (Apr 3, 2014)

Quantum Windbag said:


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Well that screams education. 

I believe in something because someone I'm not fond of doesn't. It explains America today but let's get back to the point.


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## AntiParty (Apr 3, 2014)

Quantum Windbag said:


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You are certainly missing something. You are missing Citizens United. You don't seem to know a thing about politics or the reason Big Buisness is squashing small business.


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 3, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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You didn't ask me to explain why you are wrong, or why I support free markets, you wanted to know what makes it a good thing. One of the things that makes it good is you don't like it, just like one of the things that makes free speech good is you don't like it.


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 3, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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I know exactly why big business is squashing small business, regulations. I could write a 50 page essay on it, and provide multiple sources to prove my thesis. The problem is, you wouldn't understand a word of it because you can't think outside that box that was handed to you by the Democrats.


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## Lonestar_logic (Apr 3, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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Yes I hate burdensome and redundant regulations. 

I'm for an unfettered free market.

 The Commerce Clause is a grant of power to Congress, not an express limitation on the power of the states to regulate the economy.


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## Darkwind (Apr 3, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



Get back to Me when you've read it.


[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465022529/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0465022529&linkCode=as2&tag=pahostingcom-20"]Amazon.com: Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy (9780465022526): Thomas Sowell: Books[/ame]


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## AntiParty (Apr 5, 2014)

Quantum Windbag said:


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You are certainly missing something. You are missing the difference between Corporate Interest and Common Sense Regulation. 

Welcome to Politics! I'm your Father!


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## AntiParty (Apr 5, 2014)

Quantum Windbag said:


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Clearly you don't know a thing about me. Im not a Democrat but I'm fully aware you think Democrats are the contrast of "Bush's fault". 

The Tea Party in writing is the Corporate profit party. It's other platform agenda's are in other parties. The free market is a Tea Party and Libertarian party standard. 

Again. The Constitution regulates the Free Market. Why is this bad Mr. Party lines?


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## AntiParty (Apr 5, 2014)

The Party Bias people today understand the problem they just don't understand their party is part of the problem and more generally, their party IS the problem. Even third party. 

Yes. Big Corporations are the problem. Citizens United made them that problem. Who stands against Citizens United? 

The Citizens that are smart and decide to Unite.


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## Crystalclear (Apr 5, 2014)

Because a free market means more competition, no regulations that help big businesses, so easier to set up a small business and compete with the bigger ones. 
And more competition means lower cost.
And things like child labor and low wages will be solved by the market, since people do not support those businesses.


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## AntiParty (Apr 5, 2014)

Crystalclear said:


> Because a free market means more competition, no regulations that help big businesses, so easier to set up a small business and compete with the bigger ones.
> And more competition means lower cost.
> And things like child labor and low wages will be solved by the market, since people do not support those businesses.



People don't support Aspertame. In today's regulated business, Aspertame is in lot's of things even though it's been banned by the FDA twice. The free market isn't going to tell you what Phenanenaline is. The *REGULATED MARKET* that forces Corporations to put it on the label allow people to stick to the American tradition, buyer beware "rarely, people still don't know what these terms mean unless they actually research them"

 I'm fully aware that you or I can make a fortune if we stop screening toys for Lead Paint. I just lean towards United We Stand, not For Profits We Stand.


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## AntiParty (Apr 5, 2014)

You have to decide what you accept for yourself as an American. 

China has "smog days" like our snow days where they get out of school because of too much Industrial smog. It's certainly free market, but is it freedom?


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 5, 2014)

A free market is a good thing, because it encourages those who are selling a service to do so at the lowest possible prices while still maintaining a profit for the company.

Sadly...............that is not what it is today.

Free Market today means getting the most profit for the least amount of liability, which is why so many companies are joining with others and forming monopolies.

Sorry, but now the "free market" is only for those with enough money to buy their way in, and have enough to keep their place.

Small businesses built this country, but the sad thing is, big business ended up taking over, which is why the small businesses are failing.

Me?  I can illustrate it in a simple way..................yes, Colorado Cyclist and other online retailers can offer me the same product that I can buy in my local bicycle store at a cheaper price, however, I can get service from local merchants that I cannot get from the mail order stores.

I choose to allow the local bike store the chance at my business first.  If they can meet it within 15 percent or less, I will choose the local bike store, because even though it may cost me a couple of bucks more, I know that my patronage will be rewarded.

Also, if I tell them that I can get it for a lot less (sometimes as much as 50 percent less) from a mail order site, they are usually willing to work on the price with me.


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## Crystalclear (Apr 5, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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With lower costs, I did also mean lower costs for the costumers, not just for business alone. In fact, free market isn't good for big business. Because they have to keep prices low, which generates less profit. And free market will take care of the Aspertane and other poisonous substances. This is because concurrents will notice the low prices from the business for the same product. Then the concurrents can ask for explanation publicly and if they may ise dangerous, cheap substances. If the business doesn't give a good or clear answer, people will stip buying. Problem solved without regulation.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 5, 2014)

Ten Thousand Commandments: Federal Regulation - The Updates

809 final rules in 2014
18949 pages in the Federal Registry.

3659 rules 2013
80330 pages in the Federal Registry.

Welcome to the nanny state.....................


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 5, 2014)

Mr. Anti Party...............

Do we need more regulations......................

How many pages a year in CFR's are enough.................

Your not anti party you continue to spout the Pravda of the left, and claim to be without party.  Yet you sound like their mouth piece.  Why is that when you claim not to support any particular party........................

I support Free Market competition............but I also understand the dangers of Monopolies...........but both parties are tools of their favorite donors.  Quite frankly we have politicians who are whores to the highest bidder.  The TEA Party is attempting to take out Rhino's, so I support them.  I don't consider myself to be a member of the Libertarian party, but believe in a lot of their platform.  The TEA Party doesn't consider itself the Libertarian party.  It is a grass roots party on a Conservative platform.  Since their are many branches of the party, you may very well be misquoting this entire subject.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 5, 2014)

Economic Freedom | Tea Party Patriots

Washington has made it very difficult [1] for the average person to get ahead and it has been very poor stewards of our tax dollars. [2] Many of its policies, no matter what the initial intent might have been, often end up restricting economic opportunities and job growth, the encumbrance of additional taxes and regulations [3] are sure means to failure.

With lower taxes, individuals and families will have greater resources and opportunity. It is in keeping with the principles of the American Dream: Working hard and being rewarded; keeping more of what you earn, and using it as you believe is in your best interest without harming others.   The surest road to this economic growth and the freedom from our looming debt is through a tax policy that is fair, flat, and fixed. If it were, individual Americans would best determine the use of their money, and businesses would be afforded the predictability of tax rates, allowing them to grow and hire more employees.

While America&#8217;s founding principles began as a beacon to anyone running from tyranny, today&#8217;s permanent political class has become a significant roadblock to pursuing and achieving the American Dream. This has resulted in a lower standard of living for too many, [4] and the general feeling of financial uncertainty and despair among those who used to believe in hope, sensing that their American Dream is far out of reach.   Tea Party Patriots support greater competition among producers and providers, which will compel competitive pricing for goods and services. We support policies that empower individual citizens, not Washington&#8217;s insiders, thus reducing what Washington spends so more can remain in your hands; empowering you to decide the best use of your money.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 5, 2014)

So, Mr. Fake anti party...................in this site's mission...............where does it say that they are against all regulations.......................

It doesn't.  Yet the left's PRAVDA machine states the same alarmist BS that says they would remove all regulations, like making sure our food is safe to eat and BS like that.

That is the PRAVDA of a LIE...............and you are now pushing the lying agenda of the left while claiming to be independent.............

You are an arrogant hypocrite.


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## editec (Apr 5, 2014)

Nobody has ever seen a free market.

They're like unicorns, only unicorns  that only the Republicans believe in.


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## PredFan (Apr 5, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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So basically you aren't looking for an answer.

See my signature.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> The Party Bias people today understand the problem they just don't understand their party is part of the problem and more generally, their party IS the problem. Even third party.
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> Yes. Big Corporations are the problem. Citizens United made them that problem. Who stands against Citizens United?
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> The Citizens that are smart and decide to Unite.



*Big Corporations are the problem. Citizens United made them that problem. Who stands against Citizens United? *

Unions spend money on politics, why shouldn't corporations be allowed to do the same?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 5, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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*People don't support Aspertame. *

Sales of Aspertame show your error.

*Aspertame is in lot's of things even though it's been banned by the FDA twice.*

Link?


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## RandomVariable (Apr 5, 2014)

Is it fair to say lawyers for individuals are the equivalent of regulations for industries?


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## Crystalclear (Apr 5, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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And if the FDA has banned aspertame and still businesses  use it, why can't the free market do this better?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 5, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> You have to decide what you accept for yourself as an American.
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> China has "smog days" like our snow days where they get out of school because of too much Industrial smog. It's certainly free market, but is it freedom?



And now China has a free market.


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## peach174 (Apr 5, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



Tell me where any Tea Party has made it their platform of a totally free market?
Tell me where the word totally free is. I have not seen one in any of them.
Free Market does not mean totally free market.
There has to be a balance of some regulations, but not over the top, overbearing regulations that stifle the free market.
There will always be some companies or businesses that abuse and needs some regulations.
What we are getting now it totally cost prohibitive and making businesses go out of business.
The more we have with ridiculous regulations, that cost is put on to the consumer.
The TEA Party wants limited common sense regulations not no regulations.


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 5, 2014)

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I get it now, you think regulations can make sense if you are in charge.

Funny thing, WalMart actually supports increasing the minimum wage, which falls under the category you call common sense regulations. They support it because they know it increases the cost of doing business, and drives the little people out of the market.

Big companies always support "common sense" regulations, and you support big business every time you support new regulations.

As for you being my father, he would be 90 if he were still alive, you ain't smart enough to be that old.


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 5, 2014)

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You are fully aware that I think something that I never heard before today?

If you go back and reread my post you will see I never said you are a Democrat, I said you cannot think outside the box that was handed you by Democrats. If you were half as smart as you think I am you would understand what that means.

For the record, the Constitution regulates the government.

Let me repeat that for those that have problems with complex ideas, the Constitution regulates the government. 

The Constitution does not regulate the market, it regulates the government. Why is that a bad thing, oh he who hates all parties, yet has never said anything bad about Democrats?


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 5, 2014)

ABikerSailor said:


> A free market is a good thing, because it encourages those who are selling a service to do so at the lowest possible prices while still maintaining a profit for the company.
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Like GM getting a deal that eliminates them from being liable for a faulty ignition switch that causes the air bags not to deploy, and not actually having to set up the usual fund to cover faulty products because Obama was more concerned with protecting the unions than the people?


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## AntiParty (Apr 8, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Ten Thousand Commandments: Federal Regulation - The Updates
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> 809 final rules in 2014
> 18949 pages in the Federal Registry.
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Your post talks about how the Commerce Clause as a "Nanny State" Do you hate the constitution or do you agree with it?

Or did you just repeat a profit media source?


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## AntiParty (Apr 8, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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I never proposed more regulations I simply exposed the regulations the Constitution stated. if you can't handle America then you should learn to adapt or get out.


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## AntiParty (Apr 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Link is right here Let me google that for you


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## AntiParty (Apr 8, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> Is it fair to say lawyers for individuals are the equivalent of regulations for industries?



It's directly fact, not just fair. 

*Lawyers and Doctors are the 1%

Lawyers and Doctors corrupt medicine and justice for money. Another fact. *


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## AntiParty (Apr 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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We covered that earlier. But the small brains don't read. You are basically stating, "Hey, I'm going to jusify this because they justify that!

Try to stand for what YOU stand for. Not your party, not your corporation.


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## AntiParty (Apr 8, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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We should compete with them (R)ight? Let's put lead paint in our toys and put smog in our air because people don't matter anymore, profit does. Maybe our kids will get "Smog days out of School" like China does. 

Maybe we will suffer the same Chinese Cancer towns but let's face it, we are already there. They drop obvious hazardous material and we use dangerous poisons to lubricate drills in oil fracking. 

Again. Do we care about profit or people?


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## AntiParty (Apr 8, 2014)

Quantum Windbag said:


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Wal-Mart supports the increase of Minimum wage because it will squash small business. Stop trying to profile me as a Leftist just because I don't fall in line with your cult. 

All parties are paid to work for Corporations, not the people. 

19/20 Politicians with the most money win debates. 

_My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry._ <-Fox News is all about that (R)ight? Or are they the exact polar opposite?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 8, 2014)

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Maybe if China protected property rights in their supposed "free market," then they wouldn't have state-run companies polluting on everybody's property.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 8, 2014)

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Riddle me this..........Does the CFR exist and does it have ten's of thousands of regulations per year posted.........................

Which brings me to the abuse of the commerce clause through massive Gov't Red Tape and Regulations.

If you believe this is the intent of the Constitution then you are beyond reason.  By the way your skirt is showing your true colors of the Party you spout PRAVDA FOR.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 8, 2014)

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Typical response of a Tyrant.  Used often on these boards trying to justify the massive regulations of the Gov't as normal every day business.  Regulations that have far exceeded the powers of the ACTs they intend to serve.

Any person familiar and who supports the Constitution would understand that the Constitution gave LIMITED POWERS to the Federal Gov't.  Any other interpretation of the intent is utter BS or quite simply someone inept at actually reading the true meaning of the Constitution.  aka the Federalist papers explain the purpose very well.

So, do you ignore these writings, or do you reading comprehension problems............


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## Quantum Windbag (Apr 8, 2014)

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 If I was asked to use one word to describe you it would be idiot , not leftist. Stop trying to make me look like  a hack just because I point out how stupid your position is.

By the way, did you know that, thanks to common sense regulations, there are actually fewer taxis in NYC now than there were when they first started regulating taxis in 1937?


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 8, 2014)

*Tea Party Free Market; Explain why it's a good thing 
Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..  *

Why?  The corporations won't permit it.  They want to regulate the economy, not market forces.


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## Crystalclear (Apr 8, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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This, if everyone has private property they can press charges on companies polluting their land.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 8, 2014)

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Exactly. Which makes the free market, based on private property rights, a much more stringent and effective regulator than the government. 



Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## AntiParty (Apr 9, 2014)

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Since when is Air "property"? Nice try, but a swing and a miss. 

I'll assume you are saying they are "State Run" because they are Socialists. In Socialism, as far as I know, the government controls pay. The Corporation controls the business.

 Are you stating that the state should control the pollution put out by the Coal plants there or are you stating that it's the Governments fault for the polluted air?


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## AntiParty (Apr 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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The COMMERCE CLAUSE IS THE CONSTITUTION. You are openly stating that you support what your party supports, but not part of it. What are your values?


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## AntiParty (Apr 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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I quoted the Constitution and you called me a tyrant! This is epic.....

Keep talkin kiddo.


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## AntiParty (Apr 9, 2014)

Crystalclear said:


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We can and do press charges on Corporations polluting the land. Just not the air. 

The Lubricants in Oil Fracking contaminate water sources everywhere they are doing it in America. The people are getting very sick, some don't even make it. There are actual leaked documents where Big Oil bought the silence of families including the small children that were like 8 years old. 

How do you buy the silence of a child?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 9, 2014)

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Air within the bounds of my property is also my property. Thus, if somebody is polluting the air within the bounds of my property then they are violating my property rights.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 9, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



it sure beats standing in line for hours on end 

in the hopes of getting a roll of rationed toilet paper


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## percysunshine (Apr 10, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..




What incredible timing...a primer for the wayward.


"Just to clarify, the difference between being pro-business and pro-market is categorical. A politician who is a friend of business is exactly that, a guy who does favors for his friends. A politician who is pro-market is a referee who will refuse to help protect his friends (or anyone else) from competition unless the competitors have broken the rules. The friend of business supports industry-specific or even business-specific loans, grants, tariffs, or tax breaks. The pro-market referee opposes special treatment for anyone."

Pro-Business or Pro-Market | National Review Online


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## AntiParty (Apr 10, 2014)

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I'm kind of at a laughing point here. 

I understand that you think the people should own the air they live on. 

Are you stating that Corporations shouldn't be able to do anything that affects the air of the American citizens? Because it seems like you are jumping from the smog issue in china to stating, "Any citizen can manage a local factory's air pollutants if they desire". What if a Large Soda Liberal decided they couldn't deal with any pollutants at all?

Your entire perspective is flawed.


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## AntiParty (Apr 10, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


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> > Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..
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So smart it has no 

In a country with the worlds largest petroleum reserves and oil prices at nearly $95 a barrel, everyone would expect more. What you have to learn about is the American Petrol Dollar system. 

Some think we are printing money out of thin air. Someone is working for that money and not getting it. I'll leave you with that. I'll be surprised if you get somewhere with that information.


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## AntiParty (Apr 10, 2014)

percysunshine said:


> AntiParty said:
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So business needs politicians in a Free Market?


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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I guess you've never heard of mineral rights.  They can mine the land under you if they want, and they can also pollute the air above you.

Face it.....................according to the corporations and those in the government who support them, you only have rights to the surface, not the minerals under you, nor the air above you, just what is on the surface.

The government only supports pundits, or those who have sway with the politicians, known as the lobbyists, who happen to have a bunch of money given to them by the corporations.

I used to joke that the United States of America was the best government that money could buy.

Sad to see that it came true.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> jon_berzerk said:
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Venezuela In Turmoil For Lack Of Flour, Milk And Diapers : Parallels : NPR


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## AntiParty (Apr 10, 2014)

ABikerSailor said:


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Very informed perspective. Thank you for doing your homework.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

ABikerSailor said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
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*according to the corporations and those in the government who support them, you only have rights to the surface, not the minerals under you*

my brothers and sister and myself 

inherited 1000 acres of mineral rights 

in Minnesota


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## AntiParty (Apr 10, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


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I didn't really need the link....I debated you above because I knew where you were talking about. Somehow you missed it.


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## ABikerSailor (Apr 10, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


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You may have been lucky enough to get the mineral rights for your land, however, mineral rights are much different from land rights..................



> Ownership of mineral rights (more properly "mineral interest") is an estate in real property. Technically it is known as a mineral estate, although often referred to as mineral rights. *It is the right of the owner to exploit, mine, and/or produce any or all of the minerals lying below the surface of the property.*
> 
> The mineral estate of the land includes all organic and inorganic substances that form a part of the soil. Exceptions include sand, gravel, limestone, and subsurface waterwhich are normally considered part of the surface estate.



Mineral rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry..............but in the eyes of many, you may own the topsoil and the ground above the mineral rights, but you don't necessarily own the mineral rights themselves.

If owning the land from top to the center of the earth was in the equation, many people wouldn't have fracking done on their lands.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

ABikerSailor said:


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no we own the mineral rights 

in Minnesota about 70 percent of the mineral rights 

are privately owned 

from time to time we get offers from various mining companies 

we have had offers to buy the rights 

we all agreed long ago not to let it get mined 

they say it has copper 

our cousins got the surface land and timbered some of it years ago 

the area is just too pristine to let it get mined


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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Is your point here that corporations should be able to pollute other people's property to a certain percentage? If so, it would seem ironic considering you were just blaming the free market for the smog issue in China, whereas now you're making excuses for polluters.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

ABikerSailor said:


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So what you're saying is that the government helps corporations violate property rights? Tell me something I don't know. The problem is when people try to portray this as being the free market, which is not the case.


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## AntiParty (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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Nice reflection. (Not really)

YOU believe in the free market. The free market is the cornerstone of pollution profit. 
A  market that has to set standards such as keeping lead paint off of baby toys isn't a free market. 

Welcome to politics


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## AntiParty (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


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You are clearly one of the simple thinkers that think no regulation works best. Yet we have high regulation and it needs more regulation. 

Libertarian is a good movement. But it's not always correct. Not everyone should have the Liberty to do everything. Your news says Liberty no matter what, common sense stands in the way. 

"Liberty" should be a cornerstone of every party. But this movement of Liberty no matter what the consequences is an ignorant movement.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 11, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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Yes, apparently the government giving corporations permission to violate private property rights, the very foundation of free market capitalism, is somehow "free market" in your mind. Welcome to politics indeed, where we can just redefine terms to mean whatever we want, apparently.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 11, 2014)

AntiParty said:


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Well this is such a convincing post I've changed my mind completely.


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## Anonymous1776 (Apr 12, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain to me why a totally free market is a good thing..



The primary reason free markets are desirable is inherent in the name -- freedom. Participants in a free market experience mutual benefit through voluntary exchange. If they didn't benefit, they wouldn't participate. Free markets pair those who desire a good or service with those who can produce that good or service. Free markets provide consumers with the best quality product for the lowest price due to competition among producers.

Contrary to the claims of free market opponents, free market advocates openly acknowledge the important role of government in the market. Government is necessary to keep the market free through prosecution of fraud and coercion and as an impartial mediator in disputes.

To the degree societies stray from freedom and free markets, the standard of living suffers. While no system is perfect, the free market system has proven to be the most efficient, beneficial economic system devised by man. I don't think it's any mistake that the best system is also the most free. Just as people are most happy when free, their markets are most efficient and beneficial when they are free as well. That anyone would oppose freedom in economics or other areas defies logic and reason. Therefore, those who value freedom should always be very suspicious of those who do not, as they are usually motivated by a narrow self-interest rather than the general interest of their fellow man.


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## Anonymous1776 (Apr 12, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> The regulated market allows competition. We have what is called a "highly regulated market" by some today and we still see competition.



Sure, some regulations, provided they are applied evenly, don't inhibit competition. However, when applied unevenly or not at all, such as with businesses in foreign countries, competition can be affected greatly. The minimum wage comes to mind as a glaring example. In any case, they do increase costs, usually unnecessarily.



AntiParty said:


> The funny thing is you probably back Citizens United because you think "corporations are people" . . .



Corporations are groups of people who should have a voice in how they are governed, just like an individual. We make laws and regulations that corporations must adhere to, yet they should have no voice in the matter? That's tyrannical. Not to mention corporations are subject to a separate tax. As our founding fathers discovered, taxation without representation is fundamentally unjust and unfree.



AntiParty said:


> . . . yet hate regulations like lead paint in childrens toys.



That's a strawman argument. While I've yet to find anyone who favors lead paint in childrens' toys, many free market advocates find regulations designed to outlaw lead paint in childrens' toys unnecessary. Retailers and independent consumer advocate groups have an interest to insure consumer products are safe and of good quality, and toy manufacturers have an interest to not tarnish their brand.



AntiParty said:


> The Uniteded States Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) Commerce claus. The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States,"
> 
> So do you back the Constitution or Free Markets? Your "party" seems to be at an impass on their platform.



The two are not mutually exclusive. Much of the constitution is supportive of the free market, while other parts are not. I would argue that parts of the Commerce Clause are not.


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## Anonymous1776 (Apr 12, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Since when is Air "property"? Nice try, but a swing and a miss.



Since when is it not? How can one own land without owning the air above it? If the air above the land wasn't apart of the property, it would be impossible to build a structure, such as a house or building, on the land.

Miss indeed!


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## AntiParty (Apr 13, 2014)

Anonymous1776 said:


> AntiParty said:
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> > Since when is Air "property"? Nice try, but a swing and a miss.
> ...



American Government has always owned our land. Ever read a history book? I have a book dated 1902 that clearly states, "The government owns all of the land in America"

If you think you are special then you have a lot in common with the Indians that were here before us. 

Could this be a minority/power connection? Or will it just be another Fox News junkie farting ignorance. We will see.


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## Anonymous1776 (Apr 13, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Anonymous1776 said:
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Wrong. Individuals can privately own property in the United States. Further, private property is a fundamental element of the free market.

Again:



Anonymous1776 said:


> How can one own land without owning the air above it? If the air above the land wasn't apart of the property, it would be impossible to build a structure, such as a house or building, on the land.





AntiParty said:


> Could this be a minority/power connection? Or will it just be another Fox News junkie farting ignorance. We will see.



What we will see is if anyone aside from you can make sense of this . . .


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