# Glock



## Mr. P

Does anyone have good knowledge of Glock?
Im thinking of buying one but cant decide on the model or cal.

Im looking for a good all around, competition, personal protection model.


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## 5stringJeff

I don't particularly care for Glocks, but if you're looking for a personal protection pistol, I'd recommend the 9mm version (I think it's a Glock 17?).


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## Mr. P

5stringJeff said:


> I don't particularly care for Glocks, but if you're looking for a personal protection pistol, I'd recommend the 9mm version (I think it's a Glock 17?).



Yes there is a 17 and some other 9s. Why don't you like glocks?


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## 5stringJeff

Mr. P said:


> Yes there is a 17 and some other 9s. Why don't you like glocks?



I don't care for the feel of the grip.  I've never held one that felt comfortable.


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## Semper Fi

Glock 19's are a slightly smaller alternative to Glock 17's, both 9mm. I'm rather fond of the 19.


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## Mr. P

Semper Fi said:


> Glock 19's are a slightly smaller alternative to Glock 17's, both 9mm. I'm rather fond of the 19.



The 19 happens to be the one I'm leaning toward.


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## KarlMarx

OK, gun owners, I'm curious, what does it take to own a handgun? What I mean by this question is, what is the process for owning a handgun?

My guess is, send your fingerprints to local law enforcement (OK, not a problem, my fingerprints are already in Washington, DC, so another copy can't hurt), law enforcement checks for a criminal record, you have to take a gun safety course.... etc. What else is there? Plus what does a good handgun cost?

I don't own a handgun or any gun, for that matter. However, my neighborhood is slowly becoming kind of, shall we say, Brooklyn-ized. More crack houses, shootings and so forth are in the news.

I'm not seriously considering buying one right now, but if the day comes that I need one, I'd like to be prepared.


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## Mr. P

KarlMarx said:


> *OK, gun owners, I'm curious, what does it take to own a handgun? *What I mean by this question is, what is the process for owning a handgun?


 It all depends on the state, Karl. There are Fed procedures/laws to purchase that apply to all states. Here it takes a backround check, short waiting period and thats it.


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## archangel

KarlMarx said:


> OK, gun owners, I'm curious, what does it take to own a handgun? What I mean by this question is, what is the process for owning a handgun?
> 
> My guess is, send your fingerprints to local law enforcement (OK, not a problem, my fingerprints are already in Washington, DC, so another copy can't hurt), law enforcement checks for a criminal record, you have to take a gun safety course.... etc. What else is there? Plus what does a good handgun cost?
> 
> I don't own a handgun or any gun, for that matter. However, my neighborhood is slowly becoming kind of, shall we say, Brooklyn-ized. More crack houses, shootings and so forth are in the news.
> 
> I'm not seriously considering buying one right now, but if the day comes that I need one, I'd like to be prepared.




Just a little advice from a former law enforcement officer..if you are looking for home protection go with a revolver...stay away from the autos...they are more expensive and require alot more maintenance...I would suggest a S&W model 66...it is a 357 mag and has alot of stopping power as well as being reliable...just go to the range regularly...one bullet one kill is the best policy!

They can be purchased for around $350.00 on average!


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## Mr. P

Mr. P said:


> It all depends on the state, Karl. There are Fed procedures/laws to purchase that apply to all states. Here it takes a backround check, short waiting period and thats it.



I should add thisthat applies to purchase only. If you want to carry in public there are many more hoops to jump through.


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## CrimsonWhite

Mr. P said:


> The 19 happens to be the one I'm leaning toward.



Model 23, if I had to choose one. .40 cal. gives you more energy in close range social occasions. Most personal defense shootings occur within a distance of 10 feet. Though the 9mm parabellum round is excellent in terms accuracy and velocity, in close range situations it is overkill and has been known to enter and exit the target without even slowing down the threat. A forty cal will put them on their ass. 

Glocks are fine weapons, if you can get past the grip angle, the spongy trigger, and cheaper plastic by the year. Glocks aren't what they were ten years ago. I work at Academy Sports and Outdoors. I have had to sen three Glocks back to Smyrna to get front sights put back in them after they fell out during shipping. Like I said, If I had to choose, model 23. Just my 2 cents.


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## CrimsonWhite

Mr. P said:


> Does anyone have good knowledge of Glock?
> Im thinking of buying one but cant decide on the model or cal.
> 
> Im looking for a good all around, competition, personal protection model.



Look into this one as well.

I bought one and I like it alot.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...1&parent_category_rn=15708&top_category=15708

There many more good choices in polymer DAO(Double Action Only) handguns. The Beretta PX4 Storm comes to mind. The Springfield XD, the Taurus 24/7, and the H&K P2000 are all excellent handguns. Before you settle on Glock, look around. You might be surprised by what you find.


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## Mr. P

onthefence said:


> Look into this one as well.
> 
> I bought one and I like it alot.
> 
> http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...1&parent_category_rn=15708&top_category=15708
> 
> There many more good choices in polymer DAO(Double Action Only) handguns. The Beretta PX4 Storm comes to mind. The Springfield XD, the Taurus 24/7, and the H&K P2000 are all excellent handguns. Before you settle on Glock, look around. You might be surprised by what you find.



Thanks, onthefence. Thats a nice looking Smith. 
How many malfunctions have you had while shooting it? 
Ive talked with glock owners that say they have shot hundreds of rounds in the same day and never had a mal. 

There are pros and cons with the 9 vs 40. The biggest for me is ammo cost.
Practice , practice, can be expensive, but its a MUST.
Although aware, Im not overly concerned with the pass-through potential of the 9 if loaded with a good JHP. I will admit the 40 is on my list. Much depends on if I elect to carry.

Heres something that may interest you, 45 vs 9
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm vs 45.htm

BTW what is your store price on the 19 an 23?


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## CrimsonWhite

Mr. P said:


> Thanks, onthefence. Thats a nice looking Smith.
> How many malfunctions have you had while shooting it?
> Ive talked with glock owners that say they have shot hundreds of rounds in the same day and never had a mal.
> 
> There are pros and cons with the 9 vs 40. The biggest for me is ammo cost.
> Practice , practice, can be expensive, but its a MUST.
> Although aware, Im not overly concerned with the pass-through potential of the 9 if loaded with a good JHP. I will admit the 40 is on my list. Much depends on if I elect to carry.
> 
> Heres something that may interest you, 45 vs 9
> http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm vs 45.htm
> 
> BTW what is your store price on the 19 an 23?



I've put around 2000 rounds through my Smith without a malfuntion. Glocks are the ame way in that sense. Comparatively, 9mm ammo is cheaper and you are right about a JHP. Gold dots or Silver tips are good. 

We have Glocks for $496.47. Most other polymer handguns are right around the the 450-500 dollar range. The H&K is of course more at $769. Good luck with whatever you decide on.


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## CrimsonWhite

What set the Smith M&P above the Glock for me is the steel chassis. The M&P has a steel chassis embedded in the polymer frame. Everything that makes a handgun a handgun is steel in the M&P. No other polymer handgun has this feature.


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## Mr. P

onthefence said:


> What set the Smith M&P above the Glock for me is the steel chassis. The M&P has a steel chassis embedded in the polymer frame. Everything that makes a handgun a handgun is steel in the M&P. No other polymer handgun has this feature.



I'm looking into the glock KBoom issue now, a bit scarey, I must say.....


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## CrimsonWhite

Mr. P said:


> I'm looking into the glock KBoom issue now, a bit scarey, I must say.....



I think that had more to do with the ammo than the weapon. Over pressurized ammo would do that to any firearm. The Navy Seals learned this a few years back when they were shooting sub ammo through M9's. However, if the damn things are flying apart, then I would look for a stronger platform.


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## Mr. P

onthefence said:


> I think that had more to do with the ammo than the weapon. Over pressurized ammo would do that to any firearm. The Navy Seals learned this a few years back when they were shooting sub ammo through M9's. However, if the damn things are flying apart, then I would look for a stronger platform.



Yes, glock says NO re-loaded ammo. all the KBs I've read about so far were from reloaded, except one.


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## Mr. P

onthefence, what is this lock thing?
 	 S&W M&P9 9mm NO LOCK 17RD


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## glockmail

Mr. P said:


> Does anyone have good knowledge of Glock?
> Im thinking of buying one but cant decide on the model or cal.
> 
> Im looking for a good all around, competition, personal protection model.


Years ago I decided on the Glock 27 for personal protection. It's small, light, unbreakable, and always goes boom when you squeeze the trigger- never when you don't. The 40 caliber round is superior in stopping power to the 9mm. The Glocks have had a lot of competition in the last few years with the acceptance of polymer frames and such really catching on, most notably S&W (link provided by another poster here), which is probably the best personal protection pistol out there. Find a gun shop with a range that lets you try several models out to decide.

Life is full of trade-offs, and guns are no exception. Your goals of personal protection and competition, IMO, are incompatible. The reason for this is that a protection weapon must be carried, usually concealed, which means you want it to be small and light, fixed sights and no levers or such to snag on your pocket. You also want a fool proof safety and a firm trigger pull. A competition pistol should have a longer barrel with more heft, for better accuracy and less felt recoil. Youll also want adjustable sights, an operable safety, and a light trigger.

I disagree with the poster recommending a revolver for personal protection, unless it is to be stored in a drawer. The cylinder is too fat for a purse or pocket, and Im always worried about it collecting lint and such. Besides, theyre just too damn old-fashioned.

For fun and target shooting Id recommend either a 1911 style (classic, still modern nearly 100 years later, several great manufacturers), a single action Army type (Ruger makes a nice replica), or on-the-cheap, a Ruger .22 LR pistol (several versions available).

Ive seen 22LR conversion kits available for Glocks and 1911s, but the cost is about the same as getting a Ruger 22 LR, so Ive never tried to go that route.


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## glockmail

KarlMarx said:


> OK, gun owners, I'm curious, what does it take to own a handgun? What I mean by this question is, what is the process for owning a handgun?
> 
> My guess is, send your fingerprints to local law enforcement (OK, not a problem, my fingerprints are already in Washington, DC, so another copy can't hurt), law enforcement checks for a criminal record, you have to take a gun safety course.... etc. What else is there? Plus what does a good handgun cost?
> 
> I don't own a handgun or any gun, for that matter. However, my neighborhood is slowly becoming kind of, shall we say, Brooklyn-ized. More crack houses, shootings and so forth are in the news.
> 
> I'm not seriously considering buying one right now, but if the day comes that I need one, I'd like to be prepared.



It depends on where you live. If NY of LA- it would be easier to move.

In NC you buy a permit from the County Sherriff for 5 bucks then come back 3 days later while he checks you out. That lets you buy one, but you cant carry it concealed loaded, not even in your car unless its locked in the trunk. 

If you want to carry concealed you have to take a 16 hour course, then submit to a much more lengthy background check, which includes not just past criminal activity but also psych background, about a 3 month process. They also take your prints and such. A pleasant upside is the cops that I met during this process seemed to considered me as one of their own. It turns out they really appreciate citizens who legally carry.


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## Mr. P

I think I am going for the G19.
http://www.glockworld.com/glock_compact.htm#glock19


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## CrimsonWhite

Mr. P said:


> onthefence, what is this lock thing?
> S&W M&P9 9mm NO LOCK 17RD



Smith offers a safety lock that requires a key to physically lock the slide to the frame. You don't want it and it is mainly for countries like California and Canada, which have stricter gun laws.


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## CrimsonWhite

Mr. P said:


> I think I am going for the G19.
> http://www.glockworld.com/glock_compact.htm#glock19



Not a bad choice. Glock makes a fine handgun. I'm a shooter though. I put about 5000 rounds a month through the pistol that I carry and glock triggers are just to damn spongy for me. Also, beware of the front sights on a Glock. They are pinned instead of dovetailed. They have the tendancy to get caught on things and loosen up and possibly fall out. 

Good luck and happy shooting with whatever you decide to purchase.


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## glockmail

Mr. P said:


> I think I am going for the G19.
> http://www.glockworld.com/glock_compact.htm#glock19



That's a nice choice. The full size frame and 9mm round will make the recoil very manageable, and increase your ability to put a hole exactly where you want one. You shuld look into hollow point rounds for personal protection, and there are several manufacturers of inexpensive full jacket for practice.


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## Mr. P

onthefence said:


> Not a bad choice. Glock makes a fine handgun. I'm a shooter though. I put about 5000 rounds a month through the pistol that I carry and glock triggers are just to damn spongy for me. Also, beware of the front sights on a Glock. They are pinned instead of dovetailed. They have the tendancy to get caught on things and loosen up and possibly fall out.
> 
> Good luck and happy shooting with whatever you decide to purchase.



5000 rounds! Man! That's a bunch! When I was in competitive shooting I only shot 4500 a month!


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## Mr. P

glockmail said:


> That's a nice choice. The full size frame and 9mm round will make the recoil very manageable, and increase your ability to put a hole exactly where you want one. You shuld look into hollow point rounds for personal protection, and there are several manufacturers of inexpensive full jacket for practice.



Now I am looking for the best price. The local shop is $540. +tax.
Glockworld on the net, is $459, $18 shipping no tax.. I know an FFL that will receive it without charge to me.  I just need to checkout their rep.

Now, opinions on the trigger pull. Standard 5.5 lbs. Glockworld will install a 3.5lb trigger no charge except for the mod price. What do you guys with a glock think about the 5.5lb pull? Is it worth changing?


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## glockmail

I'd buy from a local shop, as they can provide advice and service when you need it. They'd also likely be willing to negotiate price. My local shop replaced a sight in 2 minutes for free one time. They also showed me how to field strip the weapon, and gave advice on cleaning and lubrication which I found to be invaluable. My shop also has a range where you can try out several models for $5 each plus ammo, and I ended up taking the required course for concealed carry there as well.

You should also talk to them about the custom trigger option. I've heard several people say that Glock triggers could be improved, not for reliability, but for feel and hence, accuracy. My stock trigger tends to be a little "notchy", which is improved with careful lubrication, but not eliminated. 

Happy shooting. :firing:


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## misterblu

onthefence said:


> I've put around 2000 rounds through my Smith without a malfuntion. Glocks are the ame way in that sense. Comparatively, 9mm ammo is cheaper and you are right about a JHP. Gold dots or Silver tips are good.
> 
> We have Glocks for $496.47. Most other polymer handguns are right around the the 450-500 dollar range. The H&K is of course more at $769. Good luck with whatever you decide on.



What is your opinion on Kimber?

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/

I don't know much about guns in general, but my brother loves his.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/eclipse/eclipseprotarget.php


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## Mr. P

misterblu said:


> What is your opinion on Kimber?
> 
> http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/
> 
> I don't know much about guns in general, but my brother loves his.



? not for me but....I see lots of posts by people that love the Kimber. I don't know a thing about it myself.


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## glockmail

misterblu said:


> What is your opinion on Kimber?
> 
> ....



I've been told that Kimber makes one of the finest 1911 pistols that money can buy, and that you need a lot of it.


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## CrimsonWhite

misterblu said:


> What is your opinion on Kimber?
> 
> http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/
> 
> I don't know much about guns in general, but my brother loves his.
> 
> http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/eclipse/eclipseprotarget.php



I have a Kimber Pro Carry. It is possibly the best 1911 I have ever fired. They are expensive, but worth it. If you buy a Colt or Springfield and have it customized, it would cost you more than buying the Kimber. Excellent handgun. The only thing that even compares, in my opinion, is the Sig Sauer GSR. 

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/gsr_0401/


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## Ninja

Internal or external extractor?


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## Ninja

Mr. P said:


> Does anyone have good knowledge of Glock?
> Im thinking of buying one but cant decide on the model or cal.
> 
> Im looking for a good all around, competition, personal protection model.



They sure are durable: http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=462537


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## Kagom

KarlMarx said:


> OK, gun owners, I'm curious, what does it take to own a handgun? What I mean by this question is, what is the process for owning a handgun?
> 
> My guess is, send your fingerprints to local law enforcement (OK, not a problem, my fingerprints are already in Washington, DC, so another copy can't hurt), law enforcement checks for a criminal record, you have to take a gun safety course.... etc. What else is there? Plus what does a good handgun cost?
> 
> I don't own a handgun or any gun, for that matter. However, my neighborhood is slowly becoming kind of, shall we say, Brooklyn-ized. More crack houses, shootings and so forth are in the news.
> 
> I'm not seriously considering buying one right now, but if the day comes that I need one, I'd like to be prepared.


I often wondered the same thing, but now I shouldn't bother.  I live in Cali, no guns for me :/


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## sitarro

There is nothing like the very familiar sound of a shotgun's slide that makes an intruder want to leave without firing a shot.


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## Ninja

Kagom said:


> I often wondered the same thing, but now I shouldn't bother.  I live in Cali, no guns for me :/



Uh, we're still allowed to own handguns in KKKalifornia, provided that the CA DOJ has approved them for sale: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/



			
				California Department of Justice said:
			
		

> *What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?*
> 
> All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process.  California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee.  A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun.  To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and either 1) possess an HSC plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or 2) qualify for an HSC exemption.
> 
> As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles.  A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.
> 
> If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.
> 
> Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).
> 
> (PC Section 12071)



http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php?PHPSESSID=1b4715d9d5e68e023aa1b10eaa142b30#7

You might also want to check out http://calguns.net/


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## glockmail

sitarro said:


> There is nothing like the very familiar sound of a shotgun's slide that makes an intruder want to leave without firing a shot.


 Maybe Kagom and the other Californians can have soe tape recordings made and scare away the bad guys.


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## Mr. P

snowman said:


> They sure are durable: http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=462537



Thanks, snowman.
I've seen that and picked up a lot of good information at that site in the past.
Amazing the gun would still function after all that abuse.


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## Kagom

snowman said:


> Uh, we're still allowed to own handguns in KKKalifornia, provided that the CA DOJ has approved them for sale: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
> 
> 
> 
> http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php?PHPSESSID=1b4715d9d5e68e023aa1b10eaa142b30#7
> 
> You might also want to check out http://calguns.net/


Great.  I have to wait another 3 years to own a gun.  Oh well.


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## Ninja

glockmail said:


> Maybe Kagom and the other Californians can have soe tape recordings made and scare away the bad guys.



And some origami handguns  




			
				Mr. P said:
			
		

> Thanks, snowman.
> I've seen that and picked up a lot of good information at that site in the past.
> Amazing the gun would still function after all that abuse.



No problem. In addition to Glocks I love the Springfield XD, but I'm really a 1911 guy at heart. 

What did you end up going with? Or, which way are you leaning?




			
				kagom said:
			
		

> Great. I have to wait another 3 years to own a gun. Oh well.



Then you should get some rifles to help pass the time (You're already 18 right?)


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## Mr. P

snowman said:


> No problem. In addition to Glocks I love the Springfield XD, but I'm really a 1911 guy at heart.
> 
> What did you end up going with? Or, which way are you leaning?



Leaning toward the Glock 19. A 9mm is effective and the ammo is cheaper for practice. I have a S&W Model 19-4 .357 but shooting it a lot is expensive.


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## glockmail

Mr. P said:


> Leaning toward the Glock 19. A 9mm is effective and the ammo is cheaper for practice. I have a S&W Model 19-4 .357 but shooting it a lot is expensive.


 I'd recomend looking carefully at the G23, same frame size but in 0.40 S&W. Check the local prices- the ammo is not much more than 9mm, but was designed in 1999 by Smith and Wesson specifically for its stopping power.


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## Ninja

I'm not sure where you guys live but here in KKKalifornia .40 S&W runs about $2 more per box of 50 if you're comparing within the same brand.

Usually I buy the Remington UMC 250 round value packs at Wally World if I'm just going out plinking. On the Cheaper Then Dirt website there's a pretty steep price differential: 9mm $46/250 rounds,  40S&W $58/250 rounds.

Glockmail, I'm with you 100&#37; on the effectiveness of .40 S&W as a personal protection round. But for me the difference in price isn't that small. 

Anyway, whether Mr. P goes with the G19 of the G23 he'll have an excellent weapon. I'm partial to the G17, but I have fairly large hands.


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## glockmail

snowman said:


> I'm not sure where you guys live but here in KKKalifornia .40 S&W runs about $2 more per box of 50 if you're comparing within the same brand.
> 
> Usually I buy the Remington UMC 250 round value packs at Wally World if I'm just going out plinking. On the Cheaper Then Dirt website there's a pretty steep price differential: 9mm $46/250 rounds,  40S&W $58/250 rounds.
> 
> Glockmail, I'm with you 100&#37; on the effectiveness of .40 S&W as a personal protection round. But for me the difference in price isn't that small.
> 
> Anyway, whether Mr. P goes with the G19 of the G23 he'll have an excellent weapon. I'm partial to the G17, but I have fairly large hands.



Honestly I have not checked out the price difference, only that the FMJ rounds I buy at the range are fairly cheap, but those are only for making holes in paper and getting the feel of the weapon back into my hand. I keep hollow points behind plastic tipped pre-frags in my magazine when I carry, and neither of those are cheap in any caliber. But since I haven't had to use any of them, on an annualized basis they are very cheap.

Is the 17 a large frame? I have a 27, which in my big hand is a two finger job.


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## Ninja

Yes, the G17 is the full-size 9mm and the G22 is the full-size .40 S&W. 

Does the 27 have the same size frame as the 26? If so, two finger job for me too.


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## glockmail

Yes. I the 26 and 27 are the same gun, different chambers.


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## Kagom

snowman said:


> Then you should get some rifles to help pass the time (You're already 18 right?)


Eh, they're usually more expensive.  But I'm 19, therefore it's actually 2 years


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## Mr. P

So how are your the trigger pulls, glockmail/snowman?

I dry fired a G19 and the pull was 'clicky' or 'ratchety'. I understand this is common with glock and the .25 cent fix takes care of it. Alittle filing on the trigger bar from what I remember reading smooths it out.


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## glockmail

Mr. P said:


> So how are your the trigger pulls, glockmail/snowman?
> 
> I dry fired a G19 and the pull was 'clicky' or 'ratchety'. I understand this is common with glock and the .25 cent fix takes care of it. Alittle filing on the trigger bar from what I remember reading smooths it out.


 I had that problem once, but fixed it with a drop of oil in what I expect is that same mechanism. It is a mass produced piece, after all.


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## Annie

Kagom said:


> Eh, they're usually more expensive.  But I'm 19, therefore it's actually 2 years



Baby. Maybe that's what brings out my maternal instincts?


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## Mr. P

glockmail said:


> I had that problem once, but fixed it with a drop of oil in what I expect is that same mechanism. It is a mass produced piece, after all.


Yup, stamped I think.


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## glockmail

Mr. P said:


> Yup, stamped I think.


Sure. As few castings/ machinings as possible, hardened steels where needed, plastic where not. That's the name of the game with modern manufacturing. It all starts with the design.


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## Ninja

Kagom said:


> Eh, they're usually more expensive.  But I'm 19, therefore it's actually 2 years



Ruger 10/22 dude. The funnest little rifle there ever was.... $200

Great first firearm.



			
				Mr. P said:
			
		

> So how are your the trigger pulls, glockmail/snowman?
> 
> I dry fired a G19 and the pull was 'clicky' or 'ratchety'. I understand this is common with glock and the .25 cent fix takes care of it. Alittle filing on the trigger bar from what I remember reading smooths it out.



The overtravel/reset takes a bit of getting used to (very noticeable if you fire it side by side with a 1911) but I personally don't find it to be unbearable. As Glockmail said, a few drops of oil should do the trick. If you end up deciding that you'd like to modify the trigger, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have a gunsmith do it unless you've completely disassembled a Glock frame before and have prior gunsmithing experience.


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## glockmail

snowman said:


> Ruger 10/22 dude. The funnest little rifle there ever was.... $200
> 
> Great first firearm.
> .....



Yes, and in general, rifles are cheaper than pistols, probably due to the anti-gunners and lawsuits.


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## Mr. P

snowman said:


> Ruger 10/22 dude. The funnest little rifle there ever was.... $200
> 
> Great first firearm.
> 
> 
> 
> The overtravel/reset takes a bit of getting used to (very noticeable if you fire it side by side with a 1911) but I personally don't find it to be unbearable. As Glockmail said, a few drops of oil should do the trick. *If you end up deciding that you'd like to modify the trigger, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have a gunsmith do it *unless you've completely disassembled a Glock frame before and have prior gunsmithing experience.



No gunsmith, that's why it's called the .25 cent fix.

Read about how-to. Simple really.


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## glockmail

Mr. P said:


> No gunsmith, that's why it's called the .25 cent fix.
> 
> Read about how-to. Simple really.


  I'd be up for it. The wost that can happen is that you mess up ione 25 cent part, and have a gunsmith replace it.

But then again, I use old milk jugs and a houshold iron to repair gouges in my skis. And strings and oak blocks to align the wheels on my car.


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## Ninja

Sorry guys, I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud.

I've read about the $0.25 trigger job and was going to do one but was worried that it might void the warranty (I get paranoid about my guns).

I'm just playing the Devil's advocate


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## Gunny

snowman said:


> Sorry guys, I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud.
> 
> I've read about the $0.25 trigger job and was going to do one but was worried that it might void the warranty (I get paranoid about my guns).
> 
> I'm just playing the Devil's advocate



I modify my own M1911A1's, a FAR superior weapon to a Glock, IMO, and I will agree with snowman .... if you don't have any education/experience as a gunsmith, let a gunsmith do it.  It's little enough piece of mind for the price.


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## Mr. P

The way I see it, and always have, is, if you have the tools half a brain the library and now the net, theres nothing you cant do repair wise for the most part. I seldom pay anyone for a repair of any kind.

 Ill admit though getting older, Im growing tired of fixing stuff.


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## Kagom

snowman said:


> Ruger 10/22 dude. The funnest little rifle there ever was.... $200
> 
> Great first firearm.


Maybe...


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## glockmail

GunnyL said:


> I modify my own M1911A1's, a FAR superior weapon to a Glock, IMO, and I will agree with snowman .... if you don't have any education/experience as a gunsmith, let a gunsmith do it.  It's little enough piece of mind for the price.


  No question, the M1911 is the Standard for which all other pistols aspire to. However, a plastic gun like the Glock fullfills a need. Sort of like the sports car- pick up truck analogy.


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## Ninja

So Mr. P, you pick up that G19 yet?


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## Mr. P

snowman said:


> So Mr. P, you pick up that G19 yet?



Not yet..still on the 'to do' list just not at the top .


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## glockmail

Better hurry before Hillary gets in.


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## Gunny

Mr. P said:


> The way I see it, and always have, is, if you have the tools half a brain the library and now the net, theres nothing you cant do repair wise for the most part. I seldom pay anyone for a repair of any kind.
> 
> Ill admit though getting older, Im growing tired of fixing stuff.



No, it's not impossible with proper information.  My point is really that unlike fixing the leaky faucet downstairs, if you DON'T know what you're doing with a firearm you can create a potentially dangerous situation.  

I agree that if you have the tools, time and patience, the info is there.


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## Mr. P

GunnyL said:


> No, it's not impossible with proper information.  My point is really that unlike fixing the leaky faucet downstairs, if you DON'T know what you're doing with a firearm you can create a potentially dangerous situation.
> 
> I agree that if you have the tools, time and patience, the info is there.



The catch is the half a brain part.


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## Ninja

glockmail said:


> Better hurry before Hillary gets in.



Hitlery knows better.

She remembers the bitch slap America gave her hubby in 1994 in response to his completely useless ban on so-called "assault weapons."


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## glockmail

snowman said:


> Hitlery knows better.
> 
> She remembers the bitch slap America gave her hubby in 1994 in response to his completely useless ban on so-called "assault weapons."


 I'm sure she does, but Bill also got away with his ban. The confiscation of privately owned firearms is crucial to turning America into a socialist/ communist State, and thus it will always be as high as possible on the Liberal Agenda.


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## AVIDARCHER

snowman said:


> Hitlery knows better.
> 
> She remembers the bitch slap America gave her hubby in 1994 in response to his completely useless ban on so-called "assault weapons."




I am new here and was just reading through some posts and saw this and I thought I would point you guys towards HR 1022, the verbage of the bill is almost exactly the same as the 94 ban...call your congressman now. I would post a link but since this is my first post it wont allow me to do so.


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## Tarantulas

When I first joined the Sheriff's Posse, there was an orientation class where they talked about the training required to qualify to carry a firearm. Almost everyone left afterward, but I hung around because I didn't have a pistol and wanted to ask about them. One of the instructors had brought in several, including Glocks and Sig Sauers, so I asked which was better. He had me pick up the Glock and hold it like I was going to shoot. Then he had me pick a spot on the wall, close my eyes, and try to aim the Glock at it. When I opened my eyes, the Glock was pointed way high, because the grip is at an unnatural angle (as 5stringJeff said). I tried the same thing with a Sig Sauer, and it was right on target. He had several Sigs there, and the P230 fit my rather small hand perfectly. So I got one of those for $500 on sale, which at that time was a bargain. I love it and I have never had a failure caused by the pistol (once a round failed to fire, but I just cycled the slide and kept shooting). I have seen Glocks have their extractors break off at the range. I have seen one that a guy put a rubber grip on, and it caused the magazine to fail to drop when the release was pushed. And once a Glock had something break on it, and it went full auto. That was exciting, but not something I want to happen when I'm shooting. That's why I will never buy a Glock.

I would never buy a revolver either. With my Sig, I can have one in the chamber and 13 in the magazine, and if I shoot all 14 it's a matter of click, snap, and I have a new 13-round magazine ready to go. With a revolver you have six shots, and then if you can manipulate your speed loader in the dark, you can get six more. If I'm in a firefight I want those extra rounds available to load at warp speed.

Sig Saur's motto is "Engineered Reliability" and their performance matches their motto.


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## AVIDARCHER

Anyone who spends enough time shooting will see any brand of gun do some kind of funky malfunction. Glock, HK, Sig...which is better??? Ford, Chevy, Dodge?? Which is better??/ All depends on who you ask. Truth be told, they are all very good guns. I own several of each and have never had a malfucntion of any kind. But, I have seen all of them malfunction with other shooters. ANY polymer framed handgun will fail to feed if you limpwrist it when you shoot. There are pros and cons to EVERY gun on the market. HK's magazine release is very easy to hit during normal fire, Glocks seem most suseptable to limpwristing, Sig's safety switch is too far for many shooters to reach comfortably. Semi-autos are very easy to re-load, revolvers WILL fire when you pull the trigger...this list could go on and on but my point is this. NO one gun is better than the next, get one that feels good in your hand, one that you will practice like hell with and one that will do the job that you intend it to do.


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## Mr. P

Tarantulas said:


> When I first joined the Sheriff's Posse, there was an orientation class where they talked about the training required to qualify to carry a firearm. Almost everyone left afterward, but I hung around because I didn't have a pistol and wanted to ask about them. One of the instructors had brought in several, including Glocks and Sig Sauers, so I asked which was better. He had me pick up the Glock and hold it like I was going to shoot. Then he had me pick a spot on the wall, close my eyes, and try to aim the Glock at it. When I opened my eyes, the Glock was pointed way high, because the grip is at an unnatural angle (as 5stringJeff said). I tried the same thing with a Sig Sauer, and it was right on target. He had several Sigs there, and the P230 fit my rather small hand perfectly. So I got one of those for $500 on sale, which at that time was a bargain. I love it and I have never had a failure caused by the pistol (once a round failed to fire, but I just cycled the slide and kept shooting). I have seen Glocks have their extractors break off at the range. I have seen one that a guy put a rubber grip on, and it caused the magazine to fail to drop when the release was pushed. And once a Glock had something break on it, and it went full auto. That was exciting, but not something I want to happen when I'm shooting. That's why I will never buy a Glock.
> 
> I would never buy a revolver either. With my Sig, I can have one in the chamber and 13 in the magazine, and if I shoot all 14 it's a matter of click, snap, and I have a new 13-round magazine ready to go. With a revolver you have six shots, and then if you can manipulate your speed loader in the dark, you can get six more. If I'm in a firefight I want those extra rounds available to load at warp speed.
> 
> Sig Saur's motto is "Engineered Reliability" and their performance matches their motto.



Well geeezzzzzz,  I should start opening my eyes before I shoot I guess. T this close your eyes thing and point,  is part of the method used to learn to point and shoot, it is not a reflection on the firearm. IMO

As far as the rest goes..anyone can modify a gun and screw it-up or use ammo that causes problems.


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## Gunny

Tarantulas said:


> When I first joined the Sheriff's Posse, there was an orientation class where they talked about the training required to qualify to carry a firearm. Almost everyone left afterward, but I hung around because I didn't have a pistol and wanted to ask about them. One of the instructors had brought in several, including Glocks and Sig Sauers, so I asked which was better. He had me pick up the Glock and hold it like I was going to shoot. Then he had me pick a spot on the wall, close my eyes, and try to aim the Glock at it. When I opened my eyes, the Glock was pointed way high, because the grip is at an unnatural angle (as 5stringJeff said). I tried the same thing with a Sig Sauer, and it was right on target. He had several Sigs there, and the P230 fit my rather small hand perfectly. So I got one of those for $500 on sale, which at that time was a bargain. I love it and I have never had a failure caused by the pistol (once a round failed to fire, but I just cycled the slide and kept shooting). I have seen Glocks have their extractors break off at the range. I have seen one that a guy put a rubber grip on, and it caused the magazine to fail to drop when the release was pushed. And once a Glock had something break on it, and it went full auto. That was exciting, but not something I want to happen when I'm shooting. That's why I will never buy a Glock.
> 
> I would never buy a revolver either. With my Sig, I can have one in the chamber and 13 in the magazine, and if I shoot all 14 it's a matter of click, snap, and I have a new 13-round magazine ready to go. With a revolver you have six shots, and then if you can manipulate your speed loader in the dark, you can get six more. If I'm in a firefight I want those extra rounds available to load at warp speed.
> 
> Sig Saur's motto is "Engineered Reliability" and their performance matches their motto.



The two best point of aim point of impact handguns IMO are the Colt Model 1873 Single Action Army, and the Browning Hi Power followed closely by the M1911A! model.

Sinble action autos have a lower profile than DA autos, which is crucial to point of aim point of impact sighting.

The Sig Sauer is an exellent choice fo a DA auto, and probably one of the best.

If you are trained to use a revolver, it can be operated just as fast as an autoloader.  The key word being training.  

And if you hit your target with your first shot, all those extra rounds are just gravy.


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## Gunny

Mr. P said:


> Well geeezzzzzz,  I should start opening my eyes before I shoot I guess. T this close your eyes thing and point,  is part of the method used to learn to point and shoot, it is not a reflection on the firearm. IMO
> 
> As far as the rest goes..anyone can modify a gun and screw it-up or use ammo that causes problems.



Actually, it is a refelction in the firearm, as I previously stated.  The lower the profile of the weapon, the closer to natural point of aim point of impact will be the strike of the round.

It's not something that cannot be easily overcome by a little training, and the difference it makes is like a swimmer shaving his entire body.  When you're competing for those hundredths of a second at the world class level it matters.  In the real world, technical and tactical proficiency with firearm is more important.


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## CrimsonWhite

snowman said:


> Internal or external extractor?



internal

The external extractors had too many problems. Plus who the hell needs a load chamber indicator?


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## CrimsonWhite

This is the only way to go when it comes to DAO pistols:

S&W M&P auto

It comes chambered in 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .45 ACP.

Low profile frame(feels like a polymer 1911), high cap mags(15 rnds in .40 S&W), stainless steel chassis imbedded in the frame. Makes a Glock look like the toy it is. This is the only polymer handgun that I have fired that is actually worth carrying.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...angId=-1&parent_category_rn=15711&isFirearm=Y


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