# Historic Notre-Dame cathedral on fire



## airplanemechanic

Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online

What a beautiful old building!


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## EvilEyeFleegle

Some video--https://www.pscp.tv/w/1yNGavoByLgJj

The good views of the fire itself starts at 16:25


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## boedicca

This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.

_It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._

Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames


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## depotoo

I just saw that.  So sad.  The flames currently coming out of the Cathedral is awful!


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## depotoo

I agree, airplanemechanic posted about it just before you

Historic Notre-Dame cathedral on fire


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## depotoo

From bbc


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## depotoo

Live
Watch France 24 Live


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## Pilot1

That damn Quasimodo again!  Wow that does not look good.


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## depotoo




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## depotoo

They say renovations were under way.


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## mdk

How awful! I hope no one is injured and they can save the building.


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## EvilEyeFleegle

Enquirer Headline:  Demons burn Notre Dame!


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## airplanemechanic

I thought they got that church burnin' dude. Guess they got the wrong one.


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## boedicca

This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.


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## airplanemechanic

Apparently it was under renovation and that's what they believe caused the fire.


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## boedicca

I'm just devastated.  This is such a relic of Western Civilization - I can't believe it is burning up.


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## boedicca

They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.

I can't believe it.


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## airplanemechanic

The entire roof has collapsed. This building is a write-off.


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## boedicca

WHY DIDN'T THEY TRY TO SAVE IT?


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

The next person to troll and attempt to derail this thread with anti-Muslim bullshit is getting infracted and thread banned


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## bodecea

boedicca said:


> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.


Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?


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## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
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> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
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> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
Click to expand...


Just go away and take your hate with you.


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## Lysistrata

There are no words. There is only sorrow and hope. This cathedral is an integral part of world heritage and one of several monuments to the search of humans to discover the devine.


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## Aletheia4u

*Huge Fire Breaks Out in Paris' Famous Notre Dame Cathedral*

*French President Emmanuel Macron postponed a televised speech to the nation because of the stunning blaze. Macron's pre-recorded speech was set to be aired Monday evening, to lay out his long-awaited answers to the yellow vest crisis that has rocked the country since last November.*
_*Live: Paris police say the cause of massive fire at Notre Dame is unknown*_
_*







*_


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## bodecea

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
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> boedicca said:
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> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
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> I can't believe it.
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> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Just go away and take your hate with you.
Click to expand...

How is it hate to question the assertion that they are not trying to save it?   That's a lie that needs to be called out.


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## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
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> bodecea said:
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> boedicca said:
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> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
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> I can't believe it.
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> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
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> Click to expand...
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> Just go away and take your hate with you.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> How is it hate to question the assertion that they are not trying to save it?   That's a lie that needs to be called out.
Click to expand...



Go away.  Just go away and take your nastiness elsewhere.


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## there4eyeM

We're watching a horrible sight on the television. The roof of the most celebrated church in France is totally enveloped in flames. A national treasure is in the course of being destroyed. It is a profoundly sad moment for the world's history.


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## bodecea

Seriously?   Donald Trump encourages France to use 'flying water tankers' as Notre Dame Cathedral burns


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## boedicca

bodecea said:


> Seriously?   Donald Trump encourages France to use 'flying water tankers' as Notre Dame Cathedral burns




Go away.


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## bodecea

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
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> Seriously?   Donald Trump encourages France to use 'flying water tankers' as Notre Dame Cathedral burns
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> Go away.
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The Paris firefighters are still valiantly working to save what they can of Notre Dame....not standing around letting it burn.


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## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
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> bodecea said:
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> Seriously?   Donald Trump encourages France to use 'flying water tankers' as Notre Dame Cathedral burns
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> Go away.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> The Paris firefighters are still valiantly working to save what they can of Notre Dame....not standing around letting it burn.
Click to expand...



They didn't show up for 2 hours.  I've been watching the news - no water until after the fire had been burning for 2 hours.   This is beyond incompetent - and their efforts now are far too little far too late.


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## iceberg

depotoo said:


> They say renovations were under way.


well will be a bit more than that now.

this is sad to think how much history is lost today because of all this. not just the building, but everything inside they could not get out in time.


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## JimH52

Such a tragedy....Police are treating it as an accident at this point.


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## gallantwarrior

Heartrending.  One of the most significant and beautiful architectural structures produced by Western civilization.  I hope they can at least salvage the artworks.


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## basquebromance

C’est le symbole de notre France et notre histoire qui pars en fumée, c’est horrible ce qui arrive, un grand soutient aux pompiers et aux autres secouristes qui font de leur possible pour sauver une partie de notre patrimoine

the symbol of our france and our history is on fire. love to the firefighters who did everything possible to save our culture!


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## pismoe

BlackFlag said:


> pismoe said:
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> but interesting on Christian Easter Week  BFlag , who would do such a thing eh ??
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> They say it was related to the ongoing renovations happening there, piss, but who knows maybe your hopes and dreams will come true.
Click to expand...

--------------------------------  hope so but who knows at this point in time plus it is my experience that Western news media , governments , officials MAY not report the facts even when they know the facts .    ---------------   i can only guess and speculate as 'sheepherd smiff' on FOX makes mumbling sounds  BFlag .


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## Biff_Poindexter

Aletheia4u said:


> *Huge Fire Breaks Out in Paris' Famous Notre Dame Cathedral*
> 
> *French President Emmanuel Macron postponed a televised speech to the nation because of the stunning blaze. Macron's pre-recorded speech was set to be aired Monday evening, to lay out his long-awaited answers to the yellow vest crisis that has rocked the country since last November.*
> _*Live: Paris police say the cause of massive fire at Notre Dame is unknown
> 
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> 
> View attachment 256009
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> *_


I think this is terrorism -- whether it actually is or not....


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## basquebromance

christianity will prevail. Truth wins all the time.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

Nothing lasts forever


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## boedicca

iceberg said:


> depotoo said:
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> They say renovations were under way.
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> well will be a bit more than that now.
> 
> this is sad to think how much history is lost today because of all this. not just the building, but everything inside they could not get out in time.
Click to expand...



All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.


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## rightwinger

What a horrible thing to see

Such an iconic historic structure


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## boedicca

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Nothing lasts forever




That's not exactly helpful, bub.


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## iceberg

boedicca said:


> iceberg said:
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> depotoo said:
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> They say renovations were under way.
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> well will be a bit more than that now.
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> this is sad to think how much history is lost today because of all this. not just the building, but everything inside they could not get out in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> 
> All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.
Click to expand...

someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.


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## iceberg

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Nothing lasts forever


and we both know hearts can change.


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## basquebromance

Oh my heart breaks seeing Notre Dame in flames. But all things will fade except the Lord eternal who makes all thing new.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

boedicca said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
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> Nothing lasts forever
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> That's not exactly helpful, bub.
Click to expand...


Posting on an Internet message board isn’t helpful, period, so what’s your point?


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## Biff_Poindexter

basquebromance said:


> Biff_Poindexter said:
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> basquebromance said:
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> christianity will prevail. Truth wins all the time.
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> Therefore, there is no need to freak out and wet your bed over muslims....
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> Click to expand...
> 
> that remains to be seen
Click to expand...

So all of that "Christianity will prevail" is just shit you said that you don't believe until you see it?

You are not very good at this "faith" thing are you....


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## DigitalDrifter

Damn.


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## bodecea

FIrst responders are working desperately to save works of art as firefighters from the entire city try to put the fire out.  Notre-Dame cathedral on fire in Paris


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## bendog

Fire wrecks Notre-Dame Cathedral, centuries-old Parisian landmark

damn.


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## DigitalDrifter

All of that artwork inside. How damn sad.


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## boedicca

iceberg said:


> boedicca said:
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> iceberg said:
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> depotoo said:
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> They say renovations were under way.
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> 
> well will be a bit more than that now.
> 
> this is sad to think how much history is lost today because of all this. not just the building, but everything inside they could not get out in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.
Click to expand...


Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.


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## iceberg

DigitalDrifter said:


> All of that artwork inside. How damn sad.


they're trying to save what they can - hopefully they got a lot out. can you imagine being a first responder and running in to start getting things out?


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## boedicca

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> boedicca said:
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> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
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> Nothing lasts forever
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> That's not exactly helpful, bub.
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> Click to expand...
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> Posting on an Internet message board isn’t helpful, period, so what’s your point?
Click to expand...



I hope you're not a doctor because your bedside manner would be sorely lacking.


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## Eric Arthur Blair

Too many chain smoking French workmen, most likely.


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## Coyote

Oh my god...that is a huge loss for history, and the world....I'm crying


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## EvilCat Breath

One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.


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## Marion Morrison

That's very sad. I have pictures of it somewhere.


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## basquebromance

Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.


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## basquebromance

"Whether by design or accident, the great and glorious history of Christianity is being eradicated from the face of the “new” Europe"


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## basquebromance

"Trump says ‘to be honest’ the Notre Dame fire ‘puts a damper’ on fun presidential events"


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## basquebromance

"I just went next door to our own beloved Cathedral, Saint Patrick’s, to ask the intercession of Notre Dame, our Lady, for the Cathedral at the heart of Paris, and of civilization, now in flames!  God preserve this splendid house of prayer, and protect those battling the blaze." - Cardinal Dolan


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## Coyote

boedicca said:


> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.




It is an incredible, irreplaceable peace of architecture .... absolutely irreplaceable.  I visited it once and it was, as you say, "a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual"...


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## Aletheia4u

BlackFlag said:


> Aletheia4u said:
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> JimH52 said:
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> Such a tragedy....Police are treating it as an accident at this point.
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> I believe that the Yellow vest protesters has started it. MSM has been censoring the protest. And so I believe that this is their way that the protesters want the international community to know what is going on in France. To put them on the map.
> 
> 
> * French News Channel Caught Doctoring & Changing Sign Of Yellow Vest Protester
> *
> *https://www.thelocal.fr/20190113/nothing-but-lies-yellow-vests-reveal-why-they-dont-believe-the-media*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You’d love that wouldn’t you.  Sick.
Click to expand...


Paris goes up in flames as the Eiffel Tower is shrouded by a pall of black smoke | Daily Mail Online


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## basquebromance

FIREMAN: Chief we just got a emergency call, the Notre Dame Cathedral is on fire, should I send all our TRUCKS??

 FIRE CHIEF: No, not yet. First - somebody get on Twitter and check Donald Trump's Twitter feed, he may have the answer, but be quick with it, there isn't much TIME!!!


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## Rambunctious

I have worked in old buildings like this before and fire safety is taught before you even step into the structure...inspections are performed daily to prevent stuff like this.....old buildings are a tinder box....if it wasn't an accident we may never know it....


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## JimH52

basquebromance said:


> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.



WHO IS BLAMING TRUMP?  He is a POS...but no arsonist...


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## Rambunctious

Tipsycatlover said:


> One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.


I've pretty much had enough of Shep Smith...Fox news turns into CNN for an hour every day....


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## basquebromance

"Macron will go down in history as the man who led France as Notre Dame burned" - Posobiec


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## Coyote

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
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> boedicca said:
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> bodecea said:
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> Seriously?   Donald Trump encourages France to use 'flying water tankers' as Notre Dame Cathedral burns
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> 
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> 
> Go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Paris firefighters are still valiantly working to save what they can of Notre Dame....not standing around letting it burn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't show up for 2 hours.  I've been watching the news - no water until after the fire had been burning for 2 hours.   This is beyond incompetent - and their efforts now are far too little far too late.
Click to expand...



I don't think we know everything they've been doing...jmo


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## basquebromance

"My heart goes out to Paris. Notre Dame is a symbol of our ability as human beings to unite for a higher purpose—to build breathtaking spaces for worship that no one person could have built on their own. I wish France strength and shared purpose as they grieve and rebuild." - Hillary

Trump, take notes!


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## Coyote

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Nothing lasts forever



True...and sadly we have lost the desire to create buildings like that anymore.


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## xyz

JimH52 said:


> basquebromance said:
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> 
> 
> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO IS BLAMING TRUMP?  He is a POS...but no arsonist...
Click to expand...

He's an internationally renown fire fighting expert.


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## Pilot1

This is very sad.  I hate to see historical landmarks destroyed.  That building was 850 years old.


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## basquebromance

this is a loss for all the world not just france, this is a loss for human history not just french history


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## bendog

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Too many chain smoking French workmen, most likely.


And drinking wine at lunch. 

It's a great site for a new TRUMP TOWER!


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## dannyboys

Rambunctious said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
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> 
> 
> One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.
> 
> 
> 
> I've pretty much had enough of Shep Smith...Fox news turns into CNN for an hour every day....
Click to expand...

The French official started to claim the fire was set on purpose Smith immediately cut him off.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Omar and her muslim friend's office. Do they drink champagne?
I wonder how many muslims are crying tears of grief today?


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## bodecea

boedicca said:


> iceberg said:
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> boedicca said:
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> iceberg said:
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> depotoo said:
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> They say renovations were under way.
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> 
> well will be a bit more than that now.
> 
> this is sad to think how much history is lost today because of all this. not just the building, but everything inside they could not get out in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
Click to expand...

Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.


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## boedicca

dannyboys said:


> Rambunctious said:
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> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
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> 
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> One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.
> 
> 
> 
> I've pretty much had enough of Shep Smith...Fox news turns into CNN for an hour every day....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French official started to claim the fire was set on purpose Smith immediately cut him off.
> I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Omar and her muslim friend's office. Do they drink champagne?
> I wonder how many muslims are crying tears of grief today?
Click to expand...



I heard the exchange between the official and Shep Smith. Shep was perfectly correct in shutting down speculation.


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## bodecea

Tipsycatlover said:


> One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.


What are you inferring?


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## Eric Arthur Blair

Thugs set fire to churches and smear poo on walls amid warnings France's Christian heritage is under attack from 'militant secularism'
It's a bad time for churches in France in general.


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## Claudette

OMG Such a huge piece of French history.

Doesn't look good. Sure hope it wasn't the death cult that set the fire.


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## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
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> depotoo said:
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> They say renovations were under way.
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> well will be a bit more than that now.
> 
> this is sad to think how much history is lost today because of all this. not just the building, but everything inside they could not get out in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
Click to expand...



Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz

The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.


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## bodecea

basquebromance said:


> "My heart goes out to Paris. Notre Dame is a symbol of our ability as human beings to unite for a higher purpose—to build breathtaking spaces for worship that no one person could have built on their own. I wish France strength and shared purpose as they grieve and rebuild." - Hillary
> 
> Trump, take notes!


I think he was too busy making it about him.


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## Death Angel

basquebromance said:


> "I just went next door to our own beloved Cathedral, Saint Patrick’s, to ask the intercession of Notre Dame, our Lady, for the Cathedral at the heart of Paris, and of civilization, now in flames!  God preserve this splendid house of prayer, and protect those battling the blaze." - Cardinal Dolan


God's not listening.


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## basquebromance

"Good news: all the works of art were saved. The treasure of the Cathedral is intact, the Crown of thorns, the Holy sacraments. #NOTRE_DAME" - Marine Le Pen


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## Anathema

The loss of La Cathedral de Norte Dame is a world tragedy. The art, history, and architecture that will be/has been lost cannot be measured. It can be rebuilt but it will never replace what has been lost. 

My deepest sympathies to the people of France, Catholics, and lovers of art, history, and architecture around the world.


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## Eric Arthur Blair

bodecea said:


> Well, of course, it has to be all about him.


About that comment...where is the sourcing for it? Because you accept it at face value doesn't make it legitimate.
In fact, just the opposite.


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## Death Angel

BlackFlag said:


> pismoe said:
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> i have HOPES but No Fears  BFlag .
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> You hope terrorists successfully pulled off an attack, piss?  Damn.
Click to expand...

Some actually THINK while other go thru life with blinders, ignoring the obvious.


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## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
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> iceberg said:
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> boedicca said:
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> All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.
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> someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
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> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
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> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how did they fail in their duty to combat the fire?   Tell us all what should and could have been done.   We're listening to your expert advise.
Click to expand...



It's been destroyed. That's pretty much an epic failure.


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## Death Angel

It was a very fast fire, which leads to the obvious speculation.


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## boedicca

Death Angel said:


> It was a very fast fire, which leads to the obvious speculation.



The interior was mostly tons of old wood.  It was a match waiting to be lit.


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## CrusaderFrank

I've completely many rehab and several historic rehabilitation and this is, well, unusual out in six sigma territory for this to happen on this scale


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## boedicca

CrusaderFrank said:


> I've completely many rehab and several historic rehabilitation and this is, well, unusual out in six sigma territory for this to happen on this scale




It's impossible to renovate - so much of it was hand-artisan work from centuries ago.  Nobody does that type of work today.


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## bendog

bodecea said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
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> One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.
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> 
> What are you inferring?
Click to expand...

I smell …… MUSLIMS.  LOL


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## Anathema

Death Angel said:


> It was a very fast fire, which leads to the obvious speculation.



900 year old buildings with wood frames burn very quickly, no matter how the fire starts. Why don’t we let the experts do their jobs before we start suggesting criminal motives to the blaze.


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## basquebromance

"Everything is burning, nothing will remain from the frame," Notre Dame spokesman Andre Finot told French media. The 12th-century cathedral is home to incalculable works of art and is one of the world's most famous tourist attractions


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## Death Angel

bendog said:


> bodecea said:
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> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you inferring?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I smell …… MUSLIMS.  LOL
Click to expand...

There was the failed ISIS attack in 2016.


----------



## basquebromance

Mgr Michel Aupetit, the archbishop of Paris, tweets, "The firefighters are still fighting to save the towers of Notre-Dame of Paris. The frame, the roof and the spire are consumed."


----------



## pismoe

dannyboys said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> One spokesman said that there were reports that this was no accident.   Shep Smith shut that down right away.
> 
> 
> 
> I've pretty much had enough of Shep Smith...Fox news turns into CNN for an hour every day....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French official started to claim the fire was set on purpose Smith immediately cut him off.
> I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Omar and her muslim friend's office. Do they drink champagne?
> I wonder how many muslims are crying tears of grief today?
Click to expand...

------------------------------------------   yep , i heard that 'sheepherd' miumbling .   'sheepherd' would not allow the guys info to be heard .  'sheepherd' is a censor


----------



## Biff_Poindexter

Claudette said:


> OMG Such a huge piece of French history.
> 
> Doesn't look good. Sure hope it wasn't the death cult that set the fire.


Yes you do...


----------



## depotoo

They had proposed it, but sadly, said itcould make it worse, according to France24, but as we see, it is pretty much gone now.





xyz said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO IS BLAMING TRUMP?  He is a POS...but no arsonist...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's an internationally renown fire fighting expert.
> View attachment 256026
Click to expand...


----------



## basquebromance

French analyst Philippe Karsenty: “Even the Nazis didn’t dare to destroy Notre Dame, and for the past year we have had churches desecrated each and every week across France”


----------



## Claudette

Biff_Poindexter said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> 
> OMG Such a huge piece of French history.
> 
> Doesn't look good. Sure hope it wasn't the death cult that set the fire.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you do...
Click to expand...


Oh no I don't. I love history and France has a thousand years of history.

Sure hope the death cult didn't set that fire and destroy part of that history.


----------



## bendog

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iceberg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iceberg said:
> 
> 
> 
> well will be a bit more than that now.
> 
> this is sad to think how much history is lost today because of all this. not just the building, but everything inside they could not get out in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
Click to expand...

Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages" 

Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:


----------



## basquebromance

It's like watching someone you love die


----------



## depotoo

I just heard all the Cardinals of Paris are buried in the bottom of the Cathedral.


----------



## Death Angel

basquebromance said:


> French analyst Philippe Karsenty: “Even the Nazis didn’t dare to destroy Notre Dame, and for the past year we have had churches desecrated each and every week across France”


So it DOES go on and even tards admit it


----------



## Death Angel

basquebromance said:


> It's like watching someone you love die


No. It's NOT.


----------



## james bond

Anathema said:


> The loss of La Cathedral de Norte Dame is a world tragedy. The art, history, and architecture that will be/has been lost cannot be measured. It can be rebuilt but it will never replace what has been lost.
> 
> My deepest sympathies to the people of France, Catholics, and lovers of art, history, and architecture around the world.



+1,000,000


----------



## boedicca

bendog said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iceberg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> All the woodwork is pretty much gone - which is most of ceiling and interior.
> 
> 
> 
> someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
Click to expand...



It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.

And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.


----------



## Mindful

Never mind. There's an exact replica of it in Famagusta, Cyprus.

But it has a minaret sticking out of one of the towers. Having been Islamised by the Turks.


----------



## pismoe

Death Angel said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have HOPES but No Fears  BFlag .
> 
> 
> 
> You hope terrorists successfully pulled off an attack, piss?  Damn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some actually THINK while other go thru life with blinders, ignoring the obvious.
Click to expand...

                                                                                                                                     ------------------------------------   Christian Easter Week , i'd bet 10 bucks i know how the fire started .     The way this Historic building fire is being reported this is a pretty significant event and i'm also sure that there is lots of cheering going on in certain areas of the world and probably in France by certain groups .    And as i said earlier , i don't trust the media , governments , officials to report the facts .  Heck , just about every terrorist event the claim is made that the perpetrator was off kilter , off his meds and upset .  Anyway , lets see what happens .


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Death Angel said:


> So it DOES go on and even tards admit it


I put in a link about it. Churches are under attack in France.


----------



## EvilCat Breath

basquebromance said:


> French analyst Philippe Karsenty: “Even the Nazis didn’t dare to destroy Notre Dame, and for the past year we have had churches desecrated each and every week across France”



Muslims even killed a priest.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ca...shed-in-series-of-french-church-attacks-94505


----------



## boedicca

French fire chiefs have just announced that they're "not sure if the fire can be stopped".

That's quite an understatement.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

It's not like it Christian Holy Week or anything


----------



## Death Angel

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it DOES go on and even tards admit it
> 
> 
> 
> I put in a link about it. Churches are under attack in France.
Click to expand...

I know. The tards insist we ignore the reality of events in Europe. We dont know in THIS case but speculation isnt baseless.


----------



## iceberg

boedicca said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iceberg said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone said the firemen has switched to saving as much of the paintings/artifacts as they can at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
Click to expand...

i was born and raised roman catholic. however, over 1/2 my life ago i gave up religion for lent and it's never meant the same to me. that said, this hurts from a mankind history perspective overall.  the loss people feel who do have ties to this is unfathomable at times.


----------



## there4eyeM

It is still burning, but the worst has occurred. The damage is inestimable. A monument to human creativity unexcelled anywhere is in ruins.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

Death Angel said:


> I know. The tards insist we ignore the reality of events in Europe. We dont know in THIS case but speculation isnt baseless.


Yes. I'm not claiming that Notre Dame was intentionally destroyed. No one can know that at this point.

What I am saying is France is suffering from a recent spate of vandalism. Macron's France: Average of Three Church Attacks Per Day

In fact over *thousands* of cases of arson, vandalism and destruction in the last few years to religious targets such as churches and cemeteries. 

Something sinister and evil is loose in France. If there can be said that something good has come out of the Notre Dame
fire perhaps this will finally get the attention of the international news media and some rocks will start being turned over.


----------



## bendog

Death Angel said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it DOES go on and even tards admit it
> 
> 
> 
> I put in a link about it. Churches are under attack in France.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. The tards insist we ignore the reality of events in Europe. We dont know in THIS case but speculation isnt baseless.
Click to expand...

Well yes, there's no basis for your speculation.  LOL

I just hope Trump doesn't get any ideas about collecting of fire and casualty insurance for failed casinos.


----------



## boedicca

pismoe said:


> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have HOPES but No Fears  BFlag .
> 
> 
> 
> You hope terrorists successfully pulled off an attack, piss?  Damn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some actually THINK while other go thru life with blinders, ignoring the obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ------------------------------------   Christian Easter Week , i'd bet 10 bucks i know how the fire started .     The way this Historic building fire is being reported this is a pretty significant event and i'm also sure that there is lots of cheering going on in certain areas of the world and probably in France by certain groups .    And as i said earlier , i don't trust the media , governments , officials to report the facts .  Heck , just about every terrorist event the claim is made that the perpetrator was off kilter , off his meds and upset .  Anyway , lets see what happens .
Click to expand...



Whenever a catastrophe happens, the news for the first 48 hours is utter bullshit.  I'll wait until a proper investigation can take place...although I am also skeptical regarding the honesty of the French government.


----------



## WillowTree

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> The next person to troll and attempt to derail this thread with anti-Muslim bullshit is getting infracted and thread banned


Neil Cavuto just cut a phone in guest off when he tried to relate the anti Christian activities going on in Paris! So it’s worth keeping an open mind don’t you think?


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

bendog said:


> Well yes, there's no basis for your speculation. LOL


Actually, there is. LOL. 
France has been plagued with endless attacks on churches and cemeteries in the last few years. There may be no connection here but speculation in this matter is not unreasonable or unfounded. Grow up. 



> I just hope Trump doesn't get any ideas about collecting of fire and casualty insurance for failed casinos.


 Whatever you say.


----------



## irosie91

there4eyeM said:


> It is still burning, but the worst has occurred. The damage is inestimable. A monument to human creativity unexcelled anywhere is in ruins.



I is confused-----it BURNED down?   That is not the result of an unquenched cigarette---do they suspect ARSON?


----------



## Aletheia4u




----------



## Anathema

Death Angel said:


> I know. The tards insist we ignore the reality of events in Europe. We dont know in THIS case but speculation isnt baseless.



There will be plenty of time for speculation AFTER the flames are out and the initial emotional reactions are over. 

Until then, let’s not get everyone’s emotions even more enflamed and create unnecessary chaos which may lead to unpleasant reactions.


----------



## basquebromance

"Water-dropping aircraft have not been used at Notre Dame because dumping water on the building could cause the whole structure to collapse, France's civil security agency says"

This isn't the first time a nation facing a disaster has had to take time out of managing it to respond to an uninformed (and unsolicited) opinion by President Trump.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Stupid French. I had Airbus as one of my customers for years and while the French act all high and mighty and superior, they are at best where America was in 1940 concerning safety and the environment.


----------



## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
Click to expand...

It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!


----------



## WillowTree

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes, there's no basis for your speculation. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, there is. LOL.
> France has been plagued with endless attacks on churches and cemeteries in the last few years. There may be no connection here but speculation in this matter is not unreasonable or unfounded. Grow up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just hope Trump doesn't get any ideas about collecting of fire and casualty insurance for failed casinos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever you say.
Click to expand...

They have had multiple riots and burnings in Paris for weeks!


----------



## Darkwind

A damn shame.


----------



## Death Angel

boedicca said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have HOPES but No Fears  BFlag .
> 
> 
> 
> You hope terrorists successfully pulled off an attack, piss?  Damn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some actually THINK while other go thru life with blinders, ignoring the obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ------------------------------------   Christian Easter Week , i'd bet 10 bucks i know how the fire started .     The way this Historic building fire is being reported this is a pretty significant event and i'm also sure that there is lots of cheering going on in certain areas of the world and probably in France by certain groups .    And as i said earlier , i don't trust the media , governments , officials to report the facts .  Heck , just about every terrorist event the claim is made that the perpetrator was off kilter , off his meds and upset .  Anyway , lets see what happens .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever a catastrophe happens, the news for the first 48 hours is utter bullshit.  I'll wait until a proper investigation can take place...although I am also skeptical regarding the honesty of the French government.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I will even accept their "official" explanation. We've seen many times how they play fast and loose with the facts.


----------



## basquebromance

"You can see how upset the anchors are about this disaster, because it's forcing them to stop attacking President Trump for a few hours."


----------



## boedicca

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
Click to expand...


Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.


----------



## Faun

Unbelievably devastating.


----------



## bendog

WillowTree said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes, there's no basis for your speculation. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, there is. LOL.
> France has been plagued with endless attacks on churches and cemeteries in the last few years. There may be no connection here but speculation in this matter is not unreasonable or unfounded. Grow up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just hope Trump doesn't get any ideas about collecting of fire and casualty insurance for failed casinos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever you say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They have had multiple riots and burnings in Paris for weeks!
Click to expand...

If it rained you'd blame Muslims … unless there was a drought.  LOL


----------



## WillowTree

bendog said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes, there's no basis for your speculation. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, there is. LOL.
> France has been plagued with endless attacks on churches and cemeteries in the last few years. There may be no connection here but speculation in this matter is not unreasonable or unfounded. Grow up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just hope Trump doesn't get any ideas about collecting of fire and casualty insurance for failed casinos.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever you say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They have had multiple riots and burnings in Paris for weeks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it rained you'd blame Muslims … unless there was a drought.  LOL
Click to expand...

I did not blame anyone asshole. I said keep an open mind are you too goddamn stupid to read?


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Semms to me to be 2 sides of this...

1) A crying shame. A tremendous loss for the entire Western civilization.
2) Is France broke or something? Hours went by and pretty much nothing was done to put the flames out...they don't have high-rise fire fighting equipment there?


----------



## WillowTree

boedicca said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
Click to expand...

I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?


----------



## Lastamender

WillowTree said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next person to troll and attempt to derail this thread with anti-Muslim bullshit is getting infracted and thread banned
> 
> 
> 
> Neil Cavuto just cut a phone in guest off when he tried to relate the anti Christian activities going on in Paris! So it’s worth keeping an open mind don’t you think?
Click to expand...

We never got an answer on Las Vegas. European news is censored and it will be how much news we will get.
determined by the French government. If Islamists are behind it we may never know.


----------



## basquebromance

"Notre Dame has just begun a €150m restoration when tonight’s fire broke out, after much squabbling between church and state over who would fit the bill."


----------



## boedicca

WillowTree said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
Click to expand...


Yes.  There are two islands (on the Seine) in the heart of Paris. Notre Dame is on the one called Île de la Cité.   The other is Île Saint-Louis.


----------



## Eric Arthur Blair

WillowTree said:


> I did not blame anyone asshole. I said keep an open mind are you too goddamn stupid to read?


I think you may be on to something. The cognitive shortcomings in this one is strong.


----------



## WillowTree

basquebromance said:


> "Notre Dame has just begun a €150m restoration when tonight’s fire broke out, after much squabbling between church and state over who would fit the bill."


It was reported that the money for restoration had all been raised. Money was not an issue!


----------



## Mindful

Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.


Daily Telegraph.


----------



## boedicca

WillowTree said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Notre Dame has just begun a €150m restoration when tonight’s fire broke out, after much squabbling between church and state over who would fit the bill."
> 
> 
> 
> It was reported that the money for restoration had all been raised. Money was not an issue!
Click to expand...



In any case, that's an orthogonal issue.  The funds for renovation have nothing to do with the inadequate public safety response to the fire.


----------



## Anathema

WillowTree said:


> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!



Apparently because Parisians would rather stand in the street and gawk than get out of the way to allow emergency vehicles to get through.


----------



## Dick Foster

airplanemechanic said:


> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!


It's a crying shame and a loss for the entire world. I'm thankful that I got to see it for myself. I hope they are able to save some of the incredible stained glass. It looks like some of it had been removed for the restoration work that was under way. 
They're saying it took two hours for firemen to get to work on it. Hopefully that's not true as there is no viable excuse for that much delay. Not even for the French.


----------



## pismoe

Death Angel said:


> Eric Arthur Blair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it DOES go on and even tards admit it
> 
> 
> 
> I put in a link about it. Churches are under attack in France.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. The tards insist we ignore the reality of events in Europe. We dont know in THIS case but speculation isnt baseless.
Click to expand...

-------------------------------------    SPECULATION based on past experience , observation and past events is the way i approach things and i think its the correct way to go .   ' WHO ' is it that destroys  'budhist statues' carved in a mountain or cliff , think it was in 'afghanistan' or other zhithole and they destroy the Statues with Artillery just for grins eh ??


----------



## Mindful

WillowTree said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
Click to expand...


Yes. You can take a boat trip round there.


----------



## pismoe

Eric Arthur Blair said:


> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know. The tards insist we ignore the reality of events in Europe. We dont know in THIS case but speculation isnt baseless.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I'm not claiming that Notre Dame was intentionally destroyed. No one can know that at this point.
> 
> What I am saying is France is suffering from a recent spate of vandalism. Macron's France: Average of Three Church Attacks Per Day
> 
> In fact over *thousands* of cases of arson, vandalism and destruction in the last few years to religious targets such as churches and cemeteries.
> 
> Something sinister and evil is loose in France. If there can be said that something good has come out of the Notre Dame
> fire perhaps this will finally get the attention of the international news media and some rocks will start being turned over.
Click to expand...

---------------------------------------------are they Christian Church's ??   And why is it VANDALISM rather than terrorism eh ??  [average of 3 church attacks everyday]   Sounds like terrorism to me .


----------



## OldLady

boedicca said:


> I'm just devastated.  This is such a relic of Western Civilization - I can't believe it is burning up.
> 
> View attachment 256007


That's what I call a rose window.  Holy crow.  If I were there, I'd never be able to focus on the sermon.  Too much pretty stuff to look at.


----------



## pismoe

irosie91 said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is still burning, but the worst has occurred. The damage is inestimable. A monument to human creativity unexcelled anywhere is in ruins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I is confused-----it BURNED down?   That is not the result of an unquenched cigarette---do they suspect ARSON?
Click to expand...

---------------------------------  probably won't report Arson if they do suspect Rosie .


----------



## boedicca

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just devastated.  This is such a relic of Western Civilization - I can't believe it is burning up.
> 
> View attachment 256007
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I call a rose window.  Holy crow.  If I were there, I'd never be able to focus on the sermon.  Too much pretty stuff to look at.
Click to expand...



That is what it's called.  There were three (north, south and west).  They were stunning in person.


----------



## bodecea

basquebromance said:


> "Good news: all the works of art were saved. The treasure of the Cathedral is intact, the Crown of thorns, the Holy sacraments. #NOTRE_DAME" - Marine Le Pen


Sad to see the rose stained glass window gone


----------



## pismoe

CrusaderFrank said:


> It's not like it Christian Holy Week or anything


------------------------------  no matter the speculation , this is a historic bit of propaganda .


----------



## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And how did they fail in their duty to combat the fire?   Tell us all what should and could have been done.   We're listening to your expert advise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's been destroyed. That's pretty much an epic failure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still waiting for you to tell us what should and could have been done.....as opposed to you just criticizing those firefighters doing their best from the safety of your keyboard....
Click to expand...


Simple:  Show up much earlier with proper equipment.  It's clear they didn't even have a plan on how to address such a fire.


----------



## Coyote

Mindful said:


> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.



That article is from 2016.
Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears


----------



## depotoo

One firefighter has been seriously injured according to france24.


----------



## Mr Natural

This is sad.

I’m glad I got to see when I did.


----------



## pismoe

basquebromance said:


> "Water-dropping aircraft have not been used at Notre Dame because dumping water on the building could cause the whole structure to collapse, France's civil security agency says"
> 
> This isn't the first time a nation facing a disaster has had to take time out of managing it to respond to an uninformed (and unsolicited) opinion by President Trump.


---------------------------   Maybe the French don't understand American style FREE SPEECH  BBro


----------



## depotoo

Coyote said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article is from 2016.
> Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears
Click to expand...

Let’s pray there was not an attempt.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

WillowTree said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
Click to expand...

I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
Why not water cannons from ships?
I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??


----------



## bodecea

WillowTree said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
Click to expand...

Riiiiiiiight..........


----------



## bodecea

Death Angel said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have HOPES but No Fears  BFlag .
> 
> 
> 
> You hope terrorists successfully pulled off an attack, piss?  Damn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some actually THINK while other go thru life with blinders, ignoring the obvious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ------------------------------------   Christian Easter Week , i'd bet 10 bucks i know how the fire started .     The way this Historic building fire is being reported this is a pretty significant event and i'm also sure that there is lots of cheering going on in certain areas of the world and probably in France by certain groups .    And as i said earlier , i don't trust the media , governments , officials to report the facts .  Heck , just about every terrorist event the claim is made that the perpetrator was off kilter , off his meds and upset .  Anyway , lets see what happens .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever a catastrophe happens, the news for the first 48 hours is utter bullshit.  I'll wait until a proper investigation can take place...although I am also skeptical regarding the honesty of the French government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not sure I will even accept their "official" explanation. We've seen many times how they play fast and loose with the facts.
Click to expand...

Well groomed....very very well groomed.


----------



## HenryBHough

In  the 1960s another church named "Notre Dame" - a huge old landmark gothic structure- burned.

Notre Dame de Lourdes Church (Fall River, Massachusetts) - Wikipedia

It was started when a workman repairing the old lead roof overheated an area and the tinder-dry wood under it smoldered but did not burst into flame until hours later when there was nobody around to detect it.

The famous "Notre Dame" was undergoing renovations which included repairs to the lead roof which was supported byk tinder-dry ancient timbers.

Not saying that was the cause; merely pointing out the similarity and pondering whether anybody learns anything through experience.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....

2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??


----------



## bodecea

iamwhatiseem said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
Click to expand...

THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

bodecea said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> 
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
Click to expand...

From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
I don't know that, just from what I have seen.


----------



## Mindful

depotoo said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article is from 2016.
> Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let’s pray there was not an attempt.
Click to expand...


There have already been two foiled terror plots against the Strasbourg cathedral. The last one as recent as Christmas 2018.


----------



## gallantwarrior

rightwinger said:


> What a horrible thing to see
> 
> Such an iconic historic structure


What have we lost?  So much history, so much culture...


----------



## depotoo

They are saying the structure will be salvageable, and the crown of thorns, as well as other art and statues were saved.


----------



## rightwinger

pismoe said:


> WHO started the fire , did he have a BEARD and a wierd name ??


Santa Claus?


----------



## rightwinger

gallantwarrior said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a horrible thing to see
> 
> Such an iconic historic structure
> 
> 
> 
> What have we lost?  So much history, so much culture...
> 
> View attachment 256040 View attachment 256040 View attachment 256041
Click to expand...

Such beauty .......sad


----------



## boedicca

bodecea said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> 
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
Click to expand...



Hours late and after much of Notre Dame had already been destroyed.

Big Government in action!


----------



## boedicca

iamwhatiseem said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
Click to expand...



That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.


----------



## OldLady

boedicca said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
Click to expand...

Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

airplanemechanic said:


> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!



I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.

DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::

Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news

I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING, I am superstitious and I am not the ONLY one who see this as a TERRIBLE OMEN for France, this is UNBELIEVABLE what is happening, I am VERY upset as I think MILLIONS of Europeans are right now this is worse than DEATH, Notre Dame means so much to us ALL, this is so fucked up and WRONG:

Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame


----------



## gallantwarrior

Coyote said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing lasts forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True...and sadly we have lost the desire to create buildings like that anymore.
Click to expand...

I am not sure we've lost the desire.  I think it is human nature to create things like that.  But with the way governments run our nations now, with laws and regulations, etc., I'm not sure the plan to build such an edifice would meet the standards of years of studies and litigation.


----------



## gallantwarrior

xyz said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO IS BLAMING TRUMP?  He is a POS...but no arsonist...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's an internationally renown fire fighting expert.
> View attachment 256026
Click to expand...

Why would you find any suggestion offensive?  Oh, wait, President Trump made that suggestion so it must be condemned.


----------



## Bush92

Lucy Hamilton said:


> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
Click to expand...

Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.


----------



## Bush92

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
Click to expand...

They’re  French firefighters. They may have been on strike today.


----------



## boedicca

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
Click to expand...



I've been watching the news coverage on Fox.    The fire equipment didn't show up until after two hours - and that's when they were able to start spraying the building with water.  Note, if you try to check out timelines in the news, they start at 7:30pm Paris time, so the spin is in to try to cover this up.


----------



## boedicca

Bush92 said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> 
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There French firefighters. They may have been on strike today.
Click to expand...



More likely bureaucratic incompetence.   The fire started a bit before 6pm.  The approved unionized government bureaucrat who could put the emergency response plan into action had already left the office.


----------



## Bush92

Mindful said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article is from 2016.
> Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let’s pray there was not an attempt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There have already been two foiled terror plots against the Strasbourg cathedral. The last one as recent as Christmas 2018.
Click to expand...

I would not be surprised if this wasn’t an act of a terrorist. Why you can’t have open borders. If this was the act of an ISIS affiliate then France must blame themselves for not providing border security.


----------



## bodecea

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
Click to expand...

It's one of the lies being spread by CRCs.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

Bush92 said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.
Click to expand...


Yes and yes, we are going now to visit our Priest we need an impromptu Mini Mass for Notre Dame, for our French Christian brothers and sisters I do not care that it is near to Midnight, this is like part of our Collective Soul being destroyed.

Our Lord, please have Mercy on us Sinners, please help us to continue to see The Light and please request of The Blessed Raphael the Archangel the Patron Saint of Healing to somehow WRAP his Emerald Light around Notre Dame tonight to heal what of it he can. Amen.


----------



## bodecea

Bush92 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article is from 2016.
> Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let’s pray there was not an attempt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There have already been two foiled terror plots against the Strasbourg cathedral. The last one as recent as Christmas 2018.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would not be surprised if this wasn’t an act of a terrorist. Why you can’t have open borders. If this was the act of an ISIS affiliate then France must blame themselves for not providing border security.
Click to expand...

Of course you wouldn't be surprised.....just like the federal building in Oklahoma City, right?


----------



## rightwinger

Seems they may be able to save the towers


----------



## boedicca

bodecea said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> 
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's one of the lies being spread by CRCs.
Click to expand...



Who are you going to believe?   French bureaucrats covering their asses or your own lying eyes?

I know what I saw, and it doesn't speak well for massive government bureaucracies.


----------



## bodecea

gallantwarrior said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO IS BLAMING TRUMP?  He is a POS...but no arsonist...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's an internationally renown fire fighting expert.
> View attachment 256026
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you find any suggestion offensive?  Oh, wait, President Trump made that suggestion so it must be condemned.
Click to expand...

So you too think air tankers would have been a good idea.....


----------



## Lastamender

rightwinger said:


> Seems they may be able to save the towers


We lost ours.


----------



## Mindful

Bush92 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article is from 2016.
> Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let’s pray there was not an attempt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There have already been two foiled terror plots against the Strasbourg cathedral. The last one as recent as Christmas 2018.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would not be surprised if this wasn’t an act of a terrorist. Why you can’t have open borders. If this was the act of an ISIS affiliate then France must blame themselves for not providing border security.
Click to expand...


Well, we shall see. There was a threat that German cathedrals were on the "list".


----------



## Bush92

bodecea said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article is from 2016.
> Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let’s pray there was not an attempt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There have already been two foiled terror plots against the Strasbourg cathedral. The last one as recent as Christmas 2018.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would not be surprised if this wasn’t an act of a terrorist. Why you can’t have open borders. If this was the act of an ISIS affiliate then France must blame themselves for not providing border security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you wouldn't be surprised.....just like the federal building in Oklahoma City, right?
Click to expand...

We’ve come a long way since then and that was an isolated incident. Fundamentalist Islamic extremism has been on the rise for decades now. So I don’t see your point.


----------



## WillowTree

850 year old timbers equal bad bad fire. It took 57 acres of timber to build the cathedral and 200 years to complete it! It’s gone now.


----------



## Lastamender

bodecea said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> The next person to troll and attempt to derail this thread with anti-Muslim bullshit is getting infracted and thread banned
> 
> 
> 
> Neil Cavuto just cut a phone in guest off when he tried to relate the anti Christian activities going on in Paris! So it’s worth keeping an open mind don’t you think?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well...we should never forget what the muslims did in Oklahoma City to the Federal building.....for sure.
Click to expand...

In a rush to defend a faith that teaches hate? Gutless wonder.


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's one of the lies being spread by CRCs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you going to believe?   French bureaucrats covering their asses or your own lying eyes?
> 
> I know what I saw, and it doesn't speak well for massive government bureaucracies.
Click to expand...

I'm watching what's going on there.....are you?   But please DO keep digging....


----------



## Mindful

depotoo said:


> They are saying the structure will be salvageable, and the crown of thorns, as well as other art and statues were saved.



I'm sure there will be restoration. There has to be.

They did a good job on Windsor Castle.

A Day That Shook The World: Windsor Castle fire


----------



## Lastamender

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's one of the lies being spread by CRCs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you going to believe?   French bureaucrats covering their asses or your own lying eyes?
> 
> I know what I saw, and it doesn't speak well for massive government bureaucracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm watching what's going on there.....are you?   But please DO keep digging....
Click to expand...

You just ate up three years of lies, careful what you wish for.


----------



## rightwinger

boedicca said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There French firefighters. They may have been on strike today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More likely bureaucratic incompetence.   The fire started a bit before 6pm.  The approved unionized government bureaucrat who could put the emergency response plan into action had already left the office.
Click to expand...

Maybe if Trump was their fire chief they could have saved the cathedral

Trump knows more than the fire chief


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

Bush92 said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.
Click to expand...


I cannot explain how SHOCKING and DISTRESSING this is to peoples like me and my ENTIRE family on this Continent, this is the most SHOCKING and DISTRESSING thing that has happened in my short life on this earth, I can only explain how to Americans as if you think how YOU ALL feel when September 11th happened it is THAT SHOCKING and DISTRESSING to us. I am VERY angry now at GOD HIMSELF, WHY did he allow this to occur, why if he can work miracles did he not STOP the Satanic force that cause this inferno. God understands that we do get angry with him sometimes and this IS one of those times.

Mr. Lucy called our Priest and he agree and so we are now going to get into the auto to go and COLLECTIVELY ask for a miracle in a Mini Mass.


----------



## depotoo

Preliminary investigation, it’s an accident.


----------



## Lastamender

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There French firefighters. They may have been on strike today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More likely bureaucratic incompetence.   The fire started a bit before 6pm.  The approved unionized government bureaucrat who could put the emergency response plan into action had already left the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe if Trump was their fire chief they could have saved the cathedral
> 
> Trump knows more than the fire chief
Click to expand...

Trump has nothing to do with this. And what is he doing different than half the internet? You run your mouth all day.


----------



## boedicca

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's one of the lies being spread by CRCs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you going to believe?   French bureaucrats covering their asses or your own lying eyes?
> 
> I know what I saw, and it doesn't speak well for massive government bureaucracies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm watching what's going on there.....are you?   But please DO keep digging....
Click to expand...



You sad hag.  I watched it live.  The building was allowed to burn for two hours before equipment arrived that enabled applying water.   If you think that's efficient, you must go to the DMV for entertainment.


----------



## boedicca

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There French firefighters. They may have been on strike today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More likely bureaucratic incompetence.   The fire started a bit before 6pm.  The approved unionized government bureaucrat who could put the emergency response plan into action had already left the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe if Trump was their fire chief they could have saved the cathedral
> 
> Trump knows more than the fire chief
Click to expand...



It's so sad that you think this passes for wit.


----------



## gallantwarrior

WillowTree said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> They're just letting it burn.  They haven't even tried to save it.
> 
> I can't believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   No one is fighting the fire?   You standing with that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It took firefighters *two hours* to get there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
Click to expand...

Probably the only reason that the immensity of the disaster will be limited.  At least the fire will not spread readily to the surrounding city structures.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

bodecea said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> 
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's one of the lies being spread by CRCs.
Click to expand...


Do you NEVER stop Trolling threads, your Trolling in this thread is very inappropriate and it illustrate you have ZERO respect for ANYTHING.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There French firefighters. They may have been on strike today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More likely bureaucratic incompetence.   The fire started a bit before 6pm.  The approved unionized government bureaucrat who could put the emergency response plan into action had already left the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe if Trump was their fire chief they could have saved the cathedral
> 
> Trump knows more than the fire chief
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's so sad that you think this passes for wit.
Click to expand...


Leftists are devoid of ALL humour their version of humour is always bitchy and NASTY.


----------



## Polishprince

I have no idea whether this is an act of Christophobic terror, or not.

However, the replacement should definitely be a lot more fire resistant.  It would be great, IMHO, to replace it with a steel and glass superstructure which could include a large auditorium for church services as well as housing, a kitchen, child care facilities and a gift shop.    Let's look at the positivity here, and what can be put on the lot.


----------



## Bush92

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot explain how SHOCKING and DISTRESSING this is to peoples like me and my ENTIRE family on this Continent, this is the most SHOCKING and DISTRESSING thing that has happened in my short life on this earth, I can only explain how to Americans as if you think how YOU ALL feel when September 11th happened it is THAT SHOCKING and DISTRESSING to us. I am VERY angry now at GOD HIMSELF, WHY did he allow this to occur, why if he can work miracles did he not STOP the Satanic force that cause this inferno. God understands that we do get angry with him sometimes and this IS one of those times.
> 
> Mr. Lucy called our Priest and he agree and so we are now going to get into the auto to go and COLLECTIVELY ask for a miracle in a Mini Mass.
Click to expand...

The Blessed Virgin will be there for you and help you with your pain.


----------



## Jarlaxle

boedicca said:


> Death Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a very fast fire, which leads to the obvious speculation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The interior was mostly tons of old wood.  It was a match waiting to be lit.
Click to expand...

And probably oil-based paint and stain on most of it, along with (flammable) wall hangings.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

Bush92 said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot explain how SHOCKING and DISTRESSING this is to peoples like me and my ENTIRE family on this Continent, this is the most SHOCKING and DISTRESSING thing that has happened in my short life on this earth, I can only explain how to Americans as if you think how YOU ALL feel when September 11th happened it is THAT SHOCKING and DISTRESSING to us. I am VERY angry now at GOD HIMSELF, WHY did he allow this to occur, why if he can work miracles did he not STOP the Satanic force that cause this inferno. God understands that we do get angry with him sometimes and this IS one of those times.
> 
> Mr. Lucy called our Priest and he agree and so we are now going to get into the auto to go and COLLECTIVELY ask for a miracle in a Mini Mass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Blessed Virgin will be there for you and help you with your pain.
Click to expand...


Yes we hope this, we are in pain, the soul is in pain. It is not a good situation.


----------



## Bush92

During Lent and just days before Good Friday.


----------



## depotoo

My son has friends visiting there now.  Yesterday they decided to visit the Cathedral, and today the Eiffel Tower.  They are so glad they made that choice.  They told him they saw it when the smoke started.  Said it is awful.


----------



## OldLady

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> 
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been watching the news coverage on Fox.    The fire equipment didn't show up until after two hours - and that's when they were able to start spraying the building with water.  Note, if you try to check out timelines in the news, they start at 7:30pm Paris time, so the spin is in to try to cover this up.
Click to expand...

What we know so far about the devastating Notre-Dame fire and how it started
There is no cover up.  The firefighters have done a dangerous and miraculous job saving as much as they have.  It did not take them two hours to respond.  Yes, they had heavy traffic and the fire started in the spire, which is hard to reach.  It does not mean that they weren't working on it.   Why must you be so miserable to the French on such a sad day?  Your claim is not true.


----------



## boedicca

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been watching the news coverage on Fox.    The fire equipment didn't show up until after two hours - and that's when they were able to start spraying the building with water.  Note, if you try to check out timelines in the news, they start at 7:30pm Paris time, so the spin is in to try to cover this up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What we know so far about the devastating Notre-Dame fire and how it started
> There is no cover up.  The firefighters have done a dangerous and miraculous job saving as much as they have.  It did not take them two hours to respond.  Yes, they had heavy traffic and the fire started in the spire, which is hard to reach.  It does not mean that they weren't working on it.   Why must you be so miserable to the French on such a sad day?  Your claim is not true.
Click to expand...



I watched it live.  The equipment to enable fighting the fire took two hours to arrive. The spire and roof had collapsed in the first two hours - then they started spraying water on it.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

Bush92 said:


> During Lent and just days before Good Friday.



EVEN the Leftist Guardian of London is with us in our GRIEF, sharing our European Collective loss and they are correct this is going to cause scarring of our soul,  it is The Omen that Our Lord Jesus Christ forewarned us about IF as a Historically Christian Continent we TURNED AWAY from Him, this is the beginning of the end, this WILL come now to America as so much of America has TURNED AWAY from Our Lord Jesus Christ and are lost souls, we ask if our American Christian brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ please pray for your European Christian brothers and sisters tonight:

*The Guardian view on the Notre Dame fire: we share France’s terrible loss*

Editorial

*One of the great symbols of France has suffered terrible fire damage. The whole of Europe is scarred too

"It feels as though the very heart of France and the soul of Europe have been suddenly and viciously ripped out. The fire that coursed through large sections of Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris on Monday evening was an act of blind and terrible destruction that causes a great stab of emotional pain to us all.

In a frighteningly short time, it gutted and humbled one of the great buildings of Paris, in an act of annihilation of one of the emblematic places of Europe that had survived the brutality of the French revolution and the world wars of the 20th century."*


Notre Dame Cathedral: spire collapses in huge fire
The Guardian view on the Notre Dame fire: we share France’s terrible loss

Also I add for those who suggest flying water tanks used to put inferno out, they CANNOT do that the structure is now fragile and that would result in the COLLAPSE of the ENTIRE Notre Dame Cathedral. Now we go to our Priest.


----------



## gallantwarrior

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just devastated.  This is such a relic of Western Civilization - I can't believe it is burning up.
> 
> View attachment 256007
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I call a rose window.  Holy crow.  If I were there, I'd never be able to focus on the sermon.  Too much pretty stuff to look at.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is the Rose Window.  And lots of people go there who are there to look at the pretty stuff.  At least you won't fall asleep during the sermon, heh?


----------



## pismoe

boedicca said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.  That is an epic fail right there. Most of it had been torched by the time they showed up with fire fighting equipment.   Some first responders showed up earlier on site, but stood around watching due to lack of equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven’t been there but they said it sits on an island! Is that true?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe the water is on three sides of it, but there are several roads and land all around it.
> Why not water cannons from ships?
> I cannot imagine France doesn't have solid fire fighting capability??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> THere are....if you watch the reporting, they are very clear to see....pumping away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
Click to expand...

------------------------------------   does it matter .   French are secular with a big muslim population that have no use for Christianity or its symbols .  And much of the population French and worldwide are probably cheering the fire .   What did the French  do , put up 150 million 'euro' or whatever they are to renovate a 800 year old building and that sounds like walking around money or a pittance .  From what i hear the scaffolding has taken a long time to erect .  Yep , just another Christian 'icon' that can easily be replaced by a much cheaper Brass Plaque .


----------



## gallantwarrior

rightwinger said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a horrible thing to see
> 
> Such an iconic historic structure
> 
> 
> 
> What have we lost?  So much history, so much culture...
> 
> View attachment 256040 View attachment 256040 View attachment 256041
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such beauty .......sad
Click to expand...

So much more than that, and the immensity of the structure itself.  The effort it took to build it... 
Sad beyond imagining.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes and yes, we are going now to visit our Priest we need an impromptu Mini Mass for Notre Dame, for our French Christian brothers and sisters I do not care that it is near to Midnight, this is like part of our Collective Soul being destroyed.
> 
> Our Lord, please have Mercy on us Sinners, please help us to continue to see The Light and please request of The Blessed Raphael the Archangel the Patron Saint of Healing to somehow WRAP his Emerald Light around Notre Dame tonight to heal what of it he can. Amen.
Click to expand...

Given the state of society in general, I could understand why a religious person might view this as more than a shot across the bow.  When such symbols and icons fall to the degradation we are wallowing in, a believer might see where their Almighty God was expressing his displeasure and disappointment.  If this proves to be an act of interlopers, beware the backlash.  "God" has proven anything but benevolent and kind.  Rather "he" is vengeful and full of wrath.  His followers will know what they must do.


----------



## gallantwarrior

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I saw in videos, that was hours later.
> I don't know that, just from what I have seen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. The fire fighters with proper equipment showed up 2 hours after the fire started - but which time it was too late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would the fire department in a huge city like Paris show up 2 hours after their most famous cathedral caught fire?  I don't believe this.  Why?  Give me a link to your source, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There French firefighters. They may have been on strike today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> More likely bureaucratic incompetence.   The fire started a bit before 6pm.  The approved unionized government bureaucrat who could put the emergency response plan into action had already left the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe if Trump was their fire chief they could have saved the cathedral
> 
> Trump knows more than the fire chief
Click to expand...

Let it go!  Trump is trying to be diplomatic.  This tragedy should transcend even TDS.  He made a suggestion based on recent experiences in this country.  You should acknowledge President Trump knows less than a fire chief.  Seriously.


----------



## Bush92

depotoo said:


> My son has friends visiting there now.  Yesterday they decided to visit the Cathedral, and today the Eiffel Tower.  They are so glad they made that choice.  They told him they saw it when the smoke started.  Said it is awful.


Good timing.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot explain how SHOCKING and DISTRESSING this is to peoples like me and my ENTIRE family on this Continent, this is the most SHOCKING and DISTRESSING thing that has happened in my short life on this earth, I can only explain how to Americans as if you think how YOU ALL feel when September 11th happened it is THAT SHOCKING and DISTRESSING to us. I am VERY angry now at GOD HIMSELF, WHY did he allow this to occur, why if he can work miracles did he not STOP the Satanic force that cause this inferno. God understands that we do get angry with him sometimes and this IS one of those times.
> 
> Mr. Lucy called our Priest and he agree and so we are now going to get into the auto to go and COLLECTIVELY ask for a miracle in a Mini Mass.
Click to expand...

I have cried for this as I cried the day I witnessed the fall of the Towers.  While the loss of human life is yet undetermined, the loss of human history is inestimable.


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames


shit happens--it's a building 
I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building


----------



## gallantwarrior

depotoo said:


> Preliminary investigation, it’s an accident.


Preliminary investigation...while the fire is still raging?  Yup!  An accident, no doubt.  Jury's still out, Junior.


----------



## boedicca

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
Click to expand...



How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.


why is it so sad?


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

airplanemechanic said:


> TroglocratsRdumb said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Some people seem to be enjoying watching a western civilization monument burn.*
> View attachment 256051
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have no idea what the context of that photo was.
Click to expand...

that is true, and we don't know who those people are


----------



## boedicca

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
Click to expand...



If you grokked, you wouldn't have to ask.


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
Click to expand...

MANY historical buildings were destroyed in WW2
they rebuilt/etc 
whole historic towns/areas/etc were destroyed 
that's life 
Monte Cassino --destroyed ......
...life is short and then you die--no big deal if a building is gone


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you grokked, you wouldn't have to ask.
Click to expand...

MANY historical buildings were destroyed in WW2
they rebuilt/etc 
whole historic towns/areas/etc were destroyed 
that's life 
Monte Cassino --destroyed ......
...life is short and then you die--no big deal if a building is gone


----------



## boedicca

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MANY historical buildings were destroyed in WW2
> they rebuilt/etc
> whole historic towns/areas/etc were destroyed
> that's life
> Monte Cassino --destroyed ......
> ...life is short and then you die--no big deal if a building is gone
Click to expand...



Seriously?  If you want to be that dismissive of this tragedy, then go pollute another thread.


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
Click to expand...

what's ''sad'' is when people lose their HOMES


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MANY historical buildings were destroyed in WW2
> they rebuilt/etc
> whole historic towns/areas/etc were destroyed
> that's life
> Monte Cassino --destroyed ......
> ...life is short and then you die--no big deal if a building is gone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?  If you want to be that dismissive of this tragedy, then go pollute another thread.
Click to expand...

dismissive??  hahahha
realistic


----------



## KGB

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
Click to expand...


If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.


----------



## basquebromance

C’est notre histoire, notre identité et notre culture qui sont frappées en plein cœur.
Boulversé.

Ma Grande Dame ,vous êtes la beauté de notre pays ,le monde entier pleure ,vous avez ouvert les bras et accueillis tant de monde que personne ne vous laissera tomber !!!! Amen

THIS IS OUR HISTORY!


----------



## boedicca

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what's ''sad'' is when people lose their HOMES
Click to expand...



If that's all you've got, it sure ain't much.

It's not impossible to lament both the destruction of Notre Dame and people's HOMES.


----------



## harmonica

KGB said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
Click to expand...

it is not 
how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
that's STUPID


----------



## boedicca

harmonica said:


> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is not
> how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
> you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
> that's STUPID
Click to expand...



If you have any friends here, they would tell you to back away from this discussion now instead of digging yourself a deeper hole.

But that's a big IF.


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what's ''sad'' is when people lose their HOMES
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If that's all you've got, it sure ain't much.
> 
> It's not impossible to lament both the destruction of Notre Dame and people's HOMES.
Click to expand...

no no--it's MUCH more sad when people lose their homes


----------



## rightwinger

gallantwarrior said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a horrible thing to see
> 
> Such an iconic historic structure
> 
> 
> 
> What have we lost?  So much history, so much culture...
> 
> View attachment 256040 View attachment 256040 View attachment 256041
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such beauty .......sad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So much more than that, and the immensity of the structure itself.  The effort it took to build it...
> Sad beyond imagining.
Click to expand...

Hard to believe it is 800 years old
What a loss


----------



## boedicca

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what's ''sad'' is when people lose their HOMES
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If that's all you've got, it sure ain't much.
> 
> It's not impossible to lament both the destruction of Notre Dame and people's HOMES.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no no--it's MUCH more sad when people lose their homes
Click to expand...



You are beyond dull.


----------



## pismoe

gallantwarrior said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire breaks out at historic Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris  | Daily Mail Online
> 
> What a beautiful old building!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was about to post a thread I did not know if you in America and Canada were getting this news.
> 
> DEPRESSING X 1000 news from this Continent tonight the MAJESTIC Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris is burning to the ground they do not know if they can save it. The French are literally ON THEIR KNEES outside it PRAYING AND CRYING RIGHT NOW. This is SO TERRIBLE I am going to cry, Notre Dame means SO MUCH to SO MANY, this is as if a family member is dying, it has been there for 850 YEARS through and SURVIVED WARS and now this::
> 
> Notre Dame fire: horrific damage but main structure saved – live news
> 
> I cannot believe this is even HAPPENING:
> 
> Firefighters battle to save Notre-Dame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Horrendous. Such a beautiful symbol of France and the Christian faith.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I cannot explain how SHOCKING and DISTRESSING this is to peoples like me and my ENTIRE family on this Continent, this is the most SHOCKING and DISTRESSING thing that has happened in my short life on this earth, I can only explain how to Americans as if you think how YOU ALL feel when September 11th happened it is THAT SHOCKING and DISTRESSING to us. I am VERY angry now at GOD HIMSELF, WHY did he allow this to occur, why if he can work miracles did he not STOP the Satanic force that cause this inferno. God understands that we do get angry with him sometimes and this IS one of those times.
> 
> Mr. Lucy called our Priest and he agree and so we are now going to get into the auto to go and COLLECTIVELY ask for a miracle in a Mini Mass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have cried for this as I cried the day I witnessed the fall of the Towers.  While the loss of human life is yet undetermined, the loss of human history is inestimable.
Click to expand...

---------------------------------   that'd be WESTERN Human History .


----------



## harmonica

boedicca said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is not
> how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
> you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
> that's STUPID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you have any friends here, they would tell you to back away from this discussion now instead of digging yourself a deeper hole.
> 
> But that's a big IF.
Click to expand...

why--you are so entertaining with a post like that
hahahahhahahahahahahhaahahahah
life is not eternal
buildings are not eternal
.....we've had very historic buildings torn down in my city----it's not sad--it's the way of the world--that's life


----------



## gallantwarrior

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
Click to expand...

Seriously?


----------



## KGB

harmonica said:


> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is not
> how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
> you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
> that's STUPID
Click to expand...


What the hell are you even babbling about???


----------



## skye

"Some people did something"


----------



## harmonica

gallantwarrior said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously?
Click to expand...

fires don't happen?
wars don't happen??
earthquakes/tornadoes don't happen??
??!!!


----------



## gallantwarrior

boedicca said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
Click to expand...

I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?


----------



## boedicca

KGB said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is not
> how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
> you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
> that's STUPID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell are you even babbling about???
Click to expand...



I'll hazard a guess:  he's just attention whoring.  Best to ignore.


----------



## harmonica

KGB said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is not
> how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
> you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
> that's STUPID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell are you even babbling about???
Click to expand...

jesus --I have to explain it???
you people make a BIG deal out of a building on fire--but not people dying !!!!


----------



## boedicca

gallantwarrior said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?
Click to expand...



It's a code word for intelligent, well-read people.


----------



## gallantwarrior

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
Click to expand...

If you don't know you don't deserve the waste of time and words to explain.  Seriously...


----------



## boedicca

gallantwarrior said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you don't know you don't deserve the waste of time and words to explain.  Seriously...
Click to expand...



I'll clear this up for you:  it doesn't deserve the time and words.


----------



## gallantwarrior

harmonica said:


> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is not
> how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
> you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
> that's STUPID
Click to expand...

YOU are stupid, you are ignorant.  Go away troll.


----------



## gallantwarrior

I was on Okinawa recently.  I visited Shuri Castle.  I was saddened that so many of the "artifacts" on display were replicas.  Why?  Because the place was devastated  during the battle between the Japanese and US during WWII.  How tragic when an entire civilization is destroyed.  How BEYOND sad...


----------



## Mindful




----------



## airplanemechanic

The thing survives 850 years of war, weather and wear and what brings it down is some no-name moron with a tig welder.


----------



## basquebromance

Ça fait mal au cœur, un trésor pareil. C'est l'âme de Paris

this hurts my heart, my soul!


----------



## KGB

harmonica said:


> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it so sad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you have to ask that question, then clearly you have no sense of culture...this is a terrible loss to world civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is not
> how come you cry babies never say this about HUMANS that are killed EVERYDAY??
> you love buildings more than innocent kids/etc?????!!!!!!!
> that's STUPID
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell are you even babbling about???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> jesus --I have to explain it???
> you people make a BIG deal out of a building on fire--but not people dying !!!!
Click to expand...


Who is dying??  How are these two even remotely related?  It’s like comparing an elephant to an amoeba.  It makes zero sense.  

This building is a symbol of Western civilization.  Of culture.  It’s incredibly sad.  Sorry you are too damn ignorant to understand that.


----------



## gallantwarrior

boedicca said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a code word for intelligent, well-read people.
Click to expand...

Guess I've read the right stuff then.  You like Valentine Michael Smith?


----------



## boedicca

gallantwarrior said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a code word for intelligent, well-read people.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess I've read the right stuff then.  You like Valentine Michael Smith?
Click to expand...


I like the book - the character is a bit questionable.


----------



## ptbw forever

airplanemechanic said:


> The thing survives 850 years of war, weather and wear and what brings it down is some no-name moron with a tig welder.


I highly doubt it.


----------



## skye

ptbw forever said:


> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing survives 850 years of war, weather and wear and what brings it down is some no-name moron with a tig welder.
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt it.
Click to expand...


----------



## gallantwarrior

boedicca said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a code word for intelligent, well-read people.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess I've read the right stuff then.  You like Valentine Michael Smith?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I like the book - the character is a bit questionable.
Click to expand...

Have you read much Heinlein?


----------



## ptbw forever

iamwhatiseem said:


> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??


This is all Macron’s doing.


----------



## skye

The Cross still standing, inside Notre Dame.


----------



## boedicca

gallantwarrior said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> 
> 
> I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a code word for intelligent, well-read people.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess I've read the right stuff then.  You like Valentine Michael Smith?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I like the book - the character is a bit questionable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you read much Heinlein?
Click to expand...


Some - mr. boe is a huge fan, so we have quite a collection of his works.  I love "Time Enough for Love" in particular.


----------



## gallantwarrior

boedicca said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a code word for intelligent, well-read people.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Guess I've read the right stuff then.  You like Valentine Michael Smith?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I like the book - the character is a bit questionable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Have you read much Heinlein?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some - mr. boe is a huge fan, so we have quite a collection of his works.  I love "Time Enough for Love" in particular.
Click to expand...

One of my favs!  Heinlein has shaped my life to a great extent.  I've actually used several Heinlein quotes here on the USMB.


----------



## bodecea

skye said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing survives 850 years of war, weather and wear and what brings it down is some no-name moron with a tig welder.
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

What's wrong with what you posted?   Nothing.


----------



## gallantwarrior

ptbw forever said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> here is the PERFECT example of you nazis
> ....this NAZI bastard just *murdered* a bunch of innocent civilians and he tells Burt Lancaster he can never/can't understand the BEAUTY of the art treasures he's trying to steal --JUST like what you NAZIS are saying..Harmonica is an ignorant fool for not seeing the beauty ''''
> ....Burt looks at the dead, and then the jackass like ---''YOU are the bastard dumbass'''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nazis understood how valuable the artifacts were.
Click to expand...

And spared them.


----------



## harmonica

and for all of you nazis---
post # 14 [ and my other posts ] 
this will teach you to discuss civilly and not be jackasses--
this post # 14 CLOSES the case

Churches and cathedrals (Pictures)


----------



## harmonica

gallantwarrior said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I rest my case
> 
> 
> 
> Good, go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> too much fun
> I always have fun tearing you people up
> I love historic buildings
> I love being in them/etc
> etc
> but life is life--people die--buildings burn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, right...you haven't convinced me.  Anyone else convinced that dipshit here loves historic buildings?  Or what they might mean?  And, just for clarification...I'm not feeling very torn up.  Hard to feel torn up by a shithead moron whose declared goal is to do so when something like the Notre Dame Cathedral goes up in flames...
> Just me, I guess.
> Suck my ass, harmonica.  You are sludge.
Click to expand...

and check out my other posts in that HISTORIC *cathedral* thread
Churches and cathedrals (Pictures)


----------



## harmonica

gallantwarrior said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I rest my case
> 
> 
> 
> Good, go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> too much fun
> I always have fun tearing you people up
> I love historic buildings
> I love being in them/etc
> etc
> but life is life--people die--buildings burn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, right...you haven't convinced me.  Anyone else convinced that dipshit here loves historic buildings?  Or what they might mean?  And, just for clarification...I'm not feeling very torn up.  Hard to feel torn up by a shithead moron whose declared goal is to do so when something like the Notre Dame Cathedral goes up in flames...
> Just me, I guess.
> Suck my ass, harmonica.  You are sludge.
Click to expand...

just so you got the communication--check out ALL my posts in the CATHEDRAL thread
Churches and cathedrals (Pictures)


----------



## Dekster

Just a building.  It can be fixed or replaced.


----------



## bodecea

ptbw forever said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
Click to expand...

Riiiiiiight


----------



## ptbw forever

bodecea said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Riiiiiiight
Click to expand...

The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.

So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.


----------



## ptbw forever

Dekster said:


> Just a building.  It can be fixed or replaced.


If it is “just a building” then why fix or replace it?


----------



## bodecea

ptbw forever said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> here is the PERFECT example of you nazis
> ....this NAZI bastard just *murdered* a bunch of innocent civilians and he tells Burt Lancaster he can never/can't understand the BEAUTY of the art treasures he's trying to steal --JUST like what you NAZIS are saying..Harmonica is an ignorant fool for not seeing the beauty ''''
> ....Burt looks at the dead, and then the jackass like ---''YOU are the bastard dumbass'''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nazis understood how valuable the artifacts were.
Click to expand...

^ pro-Nazi


----------



## bodecea

ptbw forever said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Riiiiiiight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.
> 
> So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.
Click to expand...

What expertise do you base that statement on?


----------



## ptbw forever

bodecea said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> here is the PERFECT example of you nazis
> ....this NAZI bastard just *murdered* a bunch of innocent civilians and he tells Burt Lancaster he can never/can't understand the BEAUTY of the art treasures he's trying to steal --JUST like what you NAZIS are saying..Harmonica is an ignorant fool for not seeing the beauty ''''
> ....Burt looks at the dead, and then the jackass like ---''YOU are the bastard dumbass'''
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nazis understood how valuable the artifacts were.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ pro-Nazi
Click to expand...

What I am is pro European culture and identity.

And both the Nazis and the European allied forces were also pro European culture and identity.


----------



## ptbw forever

bodecea said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Riiiiiiight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.
> 
> So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What expertise do you base that statement on?
Click to expand...

Start a fire in any building you want and watch as it fails to burn even an entire room.


----------



## Dekster

ptbw forever said:


> Dekster said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a building.  It can be fixed or replaced.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is “just a building” then why fix or replace it?
Click to expand...


So people will have somewhere to go in hailstorms to keep from getting clunked in the head.


----------



## MarathonMike

The 850 year old iconic cathedral burned like the Hindenberg today. Very sad. The official cause is described as "accidental". 

Notre Dame Cathedral fire in Paris — live updates


----------



## depotoo

You can’t be serious.





ptbw forever said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Riiiiiiight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.
> 
> So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What expertise do you base that statement on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start a fire in any building you want and watch as it fails to burn even an entire room.
Click to expand...


----------



## bodecea

ptbw forever said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Riiiiiiight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.
> 
> So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What expertise do you base that statement on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start a fire in any building you want and watch as it fails to burn even an entire room.
Click to expand...

In an 800 year old building with 800 year old wood all around the inside and roof and spire?


----------



## bodecea

depotoo said:


> You can’t be serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> 
> 
> Riiiiiiight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.
> 
> So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What expertise do you base that statement on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Start a fire in any building you want and watch as it fails to burn even an entire room.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It's a sad thing to see how the European race (race?) can breed such stupidity, eh?


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

harmonica said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
Click to expand...


It is NOT just a building, it is a symbol of something that MEANS something and also it was 850 years old, I understand that some in America cannot respect our European Heritage when your oldest buildings are only a few hundred years old, Notre Dame, Our Lady of Paris was there for nearly 1,000 years and it was for ALL that time a symbol of something that means A LOT to MANY MANY MILLIONS of peoples not ONLY Roman Catholic but our other Christian brothers and sisters.

Your comments the Islamists and those who are Anti-Christian would SUPPORT they are HAPPY but you are a MINORITY on this day, HUNDREDS of MILLIONS across the planet this day MOURN with we Europeans and share OUR GRIEF at this immense trauma to our collective soul. We will NEVER be the SAME after this, something will have departed from us.


----------



## McRocket

Some old building burned down and no one (apparently) was hurt. So why the fuck should I give a shit? Mild interest is all it evokes from me.

People are murdered and raped today...no one gives a fuck.
Yet some old, religious building burns down - everyone freaks.

I listened to NPR in my car and the two lead stories were this pile of junk burning down and Lori Loughlin pleading not guilty to that college nonsense.
 I barely care about the building burning and don't care AT ALL about Loughlin's plea.

No wonder the world is so fucked up. Humanity's sense of priorities are all screwed up. And if you don't at least partially agree with me on this...so are yours.


----------



## depotoo

Actually, a firefighter was seriously hurt.

You don’t have to, and you don’t have to post it here that you don’t.  That is done only to be vicious.


McRocket said:


> Some old building burned down and no one (apparently) was hurt. So why the fuck should I give a shit?
> 
> 
> People are murdered and raped today...no one gives a fuck.
> 
> Some old, religious building burns down - everyone freaks.
> 
> 
> No wonder the world is so fucked up. A religious building means more to most people than great, human suffering.


----------



## francoHFW

boedicca said:


> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames


I saw on CNN with Gloria Vanderbilt's son what's his name that the damage is not that bad the roof is gone but they said it turned to ashes -it didn't hit the floor hard and the fire took everything up we'll see-there is a great picture of the interior with the statues and the altar and the stonework not damaged-just a lot of ash on the floor -weird the fireman expert said and was very appreciative of the Paris fire men who turn out to be military -good way of doing things. I am crazy about Paris and Notre Dame.... Franco stands for Francophile- Vive La France the other great Republic. They will rebuild but maybe this time with metal No doubt.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

boedicca said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is heartbreaking.  Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire - and is likely beyond repair.
> 
> _It's unclear how it started or what, exactly, is going on, but the historic Notre Dame cathedral caught fire on Monday, and photos and video circulating on social media suggest that conflagration has engulfed the historic monument._
> 
> Stunning Images Show France's Historic Notre Dame Cathedral Engulfed In Flames
> 
> 
> 
> shit happens--it's a building
> I enjoy old buildings/architecture/etc --but it's just a building
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How sad that you don't grok it as more than just a building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love the "grok" reference.  Who else might understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a code word for intelligent, well-read people.
Click to expand...


Picture from INSIDE Notre Dame first with BRAVE firefighter in view, so it seem to look TERRIBLE outside but NOT that terrible inside:






But LOOK what they FAIL to DESTROY, they fail to destroy OUR Christian Cross:






They will NEVER DESTROY Christianity. It and WE are 1000% STRONG it and we cannot ever be destroyed.

FEAR this symbol of our Christian Heritage:


----------



## mdk

We almost lost a world treasure today. I am so pleased many artifacts, items, and the main structure of the cathedral were saved.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

mdk said:


> We almost lost a world treasure today. I am so pleased many artifacts, items, and the main structure of the cathedral were saved.



As you are a very cultured man who appreciates Beauty and Art I knew you would comment something like that.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

keepitreal said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm watching what's going on there.....are you?   But please DO keep digging....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sad hag.  I watched it live.  The building was allowed to burn for two hours before equipment arrived that enabled applying water.   If you think that's efficient, you must go to the DMV for entertainment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Fallen Souls are already claimed by Satan they are on this earth doing Satan's Work, TRASHING Jesus Christ, TRASHING Christianity, but we who have faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ will NOT be forsaken by Him in our time of need, we have some HEAVY HITTERS on Our Team as ALL Practicing Christians know we have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel
> 
> St. Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle
> Be our protection against the malice
> and snares of the Devil;
> May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
> and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
> by the Divine Power,
> Cast into Hell Satan and all the evil spirits
> who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls.
> Amen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What religion are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am Roman Catholic, but I accept ALL other Christians as my brothers and sisters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am Roman Catholic, but I accept ALL other Christians as my brothers and sisters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do not deal with seeds of satan
Click to expand...


It's okay I do not.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

keepitreal said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> keepitreal said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are facing spiritual warfare people
> Let those with eyes, see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we are facing spiritual warfare the type of which has NOT been experienced for perhaps 1,000 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because we are living in the end times
Click to expand...


I think we are also, there have been so many things that have happened across perhaps 15 years now, signs that if you know Our Bible they do seem to be the little signs and some big signs that Our Lord forewarned us about to look out for. I am ready though for whatever happens, I have my Faith in Our Lord and I will NEVER RENOUNCE Him, I will NEVER turn AGAINST Him, He is my Light and my Saviour and I put my trust in Him. What has happened to Notre Dame is a BIG SIGN, it is an Omen of what is to come. We must be brave, we must reaffirm our Faith in Jesus Christ Our Lord and STAY STRONG and STAY TOGETHER.


----------



## keepitreal

Lucy Hamilton said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> somebody did something on Friday....
> 
> but ...probably just another coincidence.....right?
> 
> April 15, 2019
> BREAKING: ON FRIDAY Female Jihadi Jailed Over Attempted Car Bombing Outside Notre Dame Cathedral
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be. I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian, we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
Click to expand...




Lucy Hamilton said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> somebody did something on Friday....
> 
> but ...probably just another coincidence.....right?
> 
> April 15, 2019
> BREAKING: ON FRIDAY Female Jihadi Jailed Over Attempted Car Bombing Outside Notre Dame Cathedral
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be. I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian, we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
Click to expand...




Lucy Hamilton said:


> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be.


That is exactly what has been happening...
God is creating the circumstances 
which will bring about what He has planned 


Lucy Hamilton said:


> I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian,





Lucy Hamilton said:


> we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.


Darling, the harlot of Revelation is the Catholic Church 
and a Pope will be an anti christ


----------



## keepitreal

Lucy Hamilton said:


> What has happened to Notre Dame is a BIG SIGN, it is an Omen of what is to come.


Why though do you think it is a BIG SIGN?

What do you see as an omen, of things to come?

You first, then I'll answer


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

keepitreal said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> somebody did something on Friday....
> 
> but ...probably just another coincidence.....right?
> 
> April 15, 2019
> BREAKING: ON FRIDAY Female Jihadi Jailed Over Attempted Car Bombing Outside Notre Dame Cathedral
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be. I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian, we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> somebody did something on Friday....
> 
> but ...probably just another coincidence.....right?
> 
> April 15, 2019
> BREAKING: ON FRIDAY Female Jihadi Jailed Over Attempted Car Bombing Outside Notre Dame Cathedral
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be. I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian, we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is exactly what has been happening...
> God is creating the circumstances
> which will bring about what He has planned
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Darling, the harlot of Revelation is the Catholic Church
> and a Pope will be an anti christ
Click to expand...


*"Darling, the harlot of Revelation is the Catholic Church 
and a Pope will be an anti christ"*

I respectfully disagree, but I think the Anti-Pope Francis a good candidate for The False Prophet, I do not think the next Pope or ANY Pope will be The Anti-Christ, that character as I read Our Bible will be a political-military leader, he is very probably with us NOW but has NOT yet announced himself for the variety of reasons Our Bible says. Our Lord also forewarned us about this time that there would many MANY false prophets and MANY anti-christs, I myself feel that many of those false prophets are in the American Evangelical Church. There is to be though only ONE False Prophet and ONE Anti-Christ note capitals I am using there. I myself am waiting for the next BIG BIG SIGN that will be The Fall of Damascus which is specifically mentioned as THE catalyst in Our Bible, when that occur ALL the other Prophecies begin to happen pretty rapidly.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

keepitreal said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened to Notre Dame is a BIG SIGN, it is an Omen of what is to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Why though do you think it is a BIG SIGN?
> 
> What do you see as an omen, of things to come?
> 
> You first, then I'll answer
Click to expand...


I will have to respond to this post sleep, I am emotionally exhausted and I am getting a migraine this TRAUMATISING event of Notre Dame has affected me in a way I never thought I would ever be affected.


----------



## keepitreal

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Our Lord also forewarned us about this time that there would many MANY false prophets and MANY anti-christs, I myself feel that many of those false prophets are in the American Evangelical Church.


Why the Evangelical Church?

The Catholic hierarchy has placed themselves 
above God and made the sacrifice of Jesus insufficient


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

keepitreal said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened to Notre Dame is a BIG SIGN, it is an Omen of what is to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Why though do you think it is a BIG SIGN?
> 
> What do you see as an omen, of things to come?
> 
> You first, then I'll answer
Click to expand...


Well in brief here is ANOTHER BIG SIGN, at the SAME time the inferno got to Notre Dame a fire got into the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. The Man of Sin is among us my Christian brother, he is among us:

Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque burns at the same time as fire engulfs Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

Another weird happening is that Skye has just posted a thread about this as I was getting ready to post my comment about it to you in this thread. Here is Skye's thread:

A fire broke out also, at the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem.

Now I go to the bed, to sleep, I will say another three Hail Mary's before sleep this for Notre Dame and for our European Soul that has been so terribly wounded last night.


----------



## keepitreal

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Now I go to the bed, to sleep, I will say another three Hail Mary's


Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.'"

Luke 11:2-4


----------



## Faun

Lucy Hamilton said:


> keepitreal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> somebody did something on Friday....
> 
> but ...probably just another coincidence.....right?
> 
> April 15, 2019
> BREAKING: ON FRIDAY Female Jihadi Jailed Over Attempted Car Bombing Outside Notre Dame Cathedral
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be. I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian, we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> somebody did something on Friday....
> 
> but ...probably just another coincidence.....right?
> 
> April 15, 2019
> BREAKING: ON FRIDAY Female Jihadi Jailed Over Attempted Car Bombing Outside Notre Dame Cathedral
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be. I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian, we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Skye sometimes things happen for a reason to act as a catalyst for something that is destined to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is exactly what has been happening...
> God is creating the circumstances
> which will bring about what He has planned
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally PRAY for the DEATH of The Anti-Pope Francis who is Anti-Christian,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> we NEED a new Pope a Holy Pope a Holy Father, the Pope after Francis will be OUR Pope and that would be a good time to resurrect for one FINAL time OUR Glorious Holy Roman Empire and one FINAL Crusade against the forces of Satan HIMSELF.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Darling, the harlot of Revelation is the Catholic Church
> and a Pope will be an anti christ
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *"Darling, the harlot of Revelation is the Catholic Church
> and a Pope will be an anti christ"*
> 
> I respectfully disagree, but I think the Anti-Pope Francis a good candidate for The False Prophet, I do not think the next Pope or ANY Pope will be The Anti-Christ, that character as I read Our Bible will be a political-military leader, he is very probably with us NOW but has NOT yet announced himself for the variety of reasons Our Bible says. Our Lord also forewarned us about this time that there would many MANY false prophets and MANY anti-christs, I myself feel that many of those false prophets are in the American Evangelical Church. There is to be though only ONE False Prophet and ONE Anti-Christ note capitals I am using there. I myself am waiting for the next BIG BIG SIGN that will be The Fall of Damascus which is specifically mentioned as THE catalyst in Our Bible, when that occur ALL the other Prophecies begin to happen pretty rapidly.
Click to expand...

Vicarius filii dei


----------



## Polishprince

Unfortunately, President Macron failed to act quickly with flying water tankers that President Trump suggested, so the building will probably have to be razed.

But the good news is that there outstanding contractors out there who can build a tremendous new cathedral and it will be a net positive for the Catholic Church.    The old Notre Dame building was old and drafty, and was clearly in need of replacement.


----------



## peach174

The good news is no lives were lost and all of the priceless art and scared relics were saved.
The Church will be rebuilt.


----------



## peach174

The different colors burning is a clue that it might have been some type of chemical fire.
Makes since for it to burn so hot and quick as it did.


----------



## Polishprince

peach174 said:


> The good news is no lives were lost and all of the priceless art and scared relics were saved.
> The Church will be rebuilt.




The church will definitely be rebuilt.   I think the new Notre Dame Cathedral will make the one lost today look pathetic in comparison.  This is an excellent opportunity to install a state of the art video and sound system, first class seating to provide more room for 21st Century rear ends.   People were a lot skinnier when ND was originally built with the regular famines and that they had.    An automated bell ringing system will eliminate the need to hire bell ringers.   The HVAC system can be upgraded, as well as building a nice driveway and entrance so that worshippers can be dropped off at the front door and not get wet.


----------



## peach174

Polishprince said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is no lives were lost and all of the priceless art and scared relics were saved.
> The Church will be rebuilt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The church will definitely be rebuilt.   I think the new Notre Dame Cathedral will make the one lost today look pathetic in comparison.  This is an excellent opportunity to install a state of the art video and sound system, first class seating to provide more room for 21st Century rear ends.   People were a lot skinnier when ND was originally built with the regular famines and that they had.    An automated bell ringing system will eliminate the need to hire bell ringers.   The HVAC system can be upgraded, as well as building a nice driveway and entrance so that worshippers can be dropped off at the front door and not get wet.
Click to expand...


For me, the 800 year old wood carved pews was a great loss.
I really loved the carvings and how thick and beautiful the wood was.


----------



## peach174

Lucy Hamilton said:


> keepitreal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened to Notre Dame is a BIG SIGN, it is an Omen of what is to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Why though do you think it is a BIG SIGN?
> 
> What do you see as an omen, of things to come?
> 
> You first, then I'll answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well in brief here is ANOTHER BIG SIGN, at the SAME time the inferno got to Notre Dame a fire got into the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. The Man of Sin is among us my Christian brother, he is among us:
> 
> Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque burns at the same time as fire engulfs Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris
> 
> Another weird happening is that Skye has just posted a thread about this as I was getting ready to post my comment about it to you in this thread. Here is Skye's thread:
> 
> A fire broke out also, at the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem.
> 
> Now I go to the bed, to sleep, I will say another three Hail Mary's before sleep this for Notre Dame and for our European Soul that has been so terribly wounded last night.
Click to expand...


Totally agree with you.
Satan has made his arrival today with the church burning and the mosque .


----------



## keepitreal

peach174 said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> keepitreal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened to Notre Dame is a BIG SIGN, it is an Omen of what is to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Why though do you think it is a BIG SIGN?
> 
> What do you see as an omen, of things to come?
> 
> You first, then I'll answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well in brief here is ANOTHER BIG SIGN, at the SAME time the inferno got to Notre Dame a fire got into the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. The Man of Sin is among us my Christian brother, he is among us:
> 
> Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque burns at the same time as fire engulfs Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris
> 
> Another weird happening is that Skye has just posted a thread about this as I was getting ready to post my comment about it to you in this thread. Here is Skye's thread:
> 
> A fire broke out also, at the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem.
> 
> Now I go to the bed, to sleep, I will say another three Hail Mary's before sleep this for Notre Dame and for our European Soul that has been so terribly wounded last night.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you.
> Satan has made his arrival today with the church burning and the mosque .
Click to expand...




peach174 said:


> Totally agree with you.
> Satan has made his arrival today with the church burning and the mosque .


Why would satan create a situation 
that, in one form or another, draws people to God?

He wouldn't 

As far as a mosque goes...those are his houses of worship


----------



## buttercup

What's the latest? (I don't have a TV, and the clips I'm seeing online are not recent.)

This thread is disappointing....  trolls who wouldn't give it a rest, and people quickly trying to politicize it.


----------



## keepitreal

peach174 said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is no lives were lost and all of the priceless art and scared relics were saved.
> The Church will be rebuilt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The church will definitely be rebuilt.   I think the new Notre Dame Cathedral will make the one lost today look pathetic in comparison.  This is an excellent opportunity to install a state of the art video and sound system, first class seating to provide more room for 21st Century rear ends.   People were a lot skinnier when ND was originally built with the regular famines and that they had.    An automated bell ringing system will eliminate the need to hire bell ringers.   The HVAC system can be upgraded, as well as building a nice driveway and entrance so that worshippers can be dropped off at the front door and not get wet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For me, the 800 year old wood carved pews was a great loss.
> I really loved the carvings and how thick and beautiful the wood was.
Click to expand...




peach174 said:


> For me, the 800 year old wood carved pews was a great loss.
> I really loved the carvings and how thick and beautiful the wood was.


How many homeless people slept on them every night?


----------



## there4eyeM

Reports are that the major stained glass windows were saved, as well as the "treasure". In doubt are the paintings and other interior appointments. 
France is determined to rebuild.


----------



## keepitreal

there4eyeM said:


> Reports are that the major stained glass windows were saved, as well as the "treasure". In doubt are the paintings and other interior appointments.
> France is determined to rebuild.


The stained glass windows were *saved*...awesome 

Unfortunately, stained glass windows 
don't need to be concerned with eternity


----------



## keepitreal

Just saw a headline on google news page...

Investigation begins into Notre Dame Cathedral fire

Ummm, why did they already rule out
arson or terrorists?


----------



## SweetSue92

So tragic. Think about a building for which construction starting in the 1100s. The mind boggles. And I hesitate to admit this but, I was in Paris in 1987 in my late teens and have vivid memories of the Louvre, the parks, the Seine, the cafes, the Tuilleries--but I do not remember visiting Notre Dame. I know we DID, but we had just come off a two week trip in England in which we visited cathedral after cathedral and so....yeah. In my defense I wasn't even twenty yet so.....


----------



## xband

SweetSue92 said:


> So tragic. Think about a building for which construction starting in the 1100s. The mind boggles. And I hesitate to admit this but, I was in Paris in 1987 in my late teens and have vivid memories of the Louvre, the parks, the Seine, the cafes, the Tuilleries--but I do not remember visiting Notre Dame. I know we DID, but we had just come off a two week trip in England in which we visited cathedral after cathedral and so....yeah. In my defense I wasn't even twenty yet so.....



I never been to France let alone Europe and most of my adventures were in the Far East. South East Asia.


----------



## SweetSue92

xband said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So tragic. Think about a building for which construction starting in the 1100s. The mind boggles. And I hesitate to admit this but, I was in Paris in 1987 in my late teens and have vivid memories of the Louvre, the parks, the Seine, the cafes, the Tuilleries--but I do not remember visiting Notre Dame. I know we DID, but we had just come off a two week trip in England in which we visited cathedral after cathedral and so....yeah. In my defense I wasn't even twenty yet so.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never been to France let alone Europe and most of my adventures were in the Far East.
Click to expand...


Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.


----------



## xband

keepitreal said:


> Just saw a headline on google news page...
> 
> Investigation begins into Notre Dame Cathedral fire
> 
> Ummm, why did they already rule out
> arson or terrorists?



The Sheriff of Paris did it.


----------



## keepitreal

Polishprince said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is no lives were lost and all of the priceless art and scared relics were saved.
> The Church will be rebuilt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The church will definitely be rebuilt.   I think the new Notre Dame Cathedral will make the one lost today look pathetic in comparison.  This is an excellent opportunity to install a state of the art video and sound system, first class seating to provide more room for 21st Century rear ends.   People were a lot skinnier when ND was originally built with the regular famines and that they had.    An automated bell ringing system will eliminate the need to hire bell ringers.   The HVAC system can be upgraded, as well as building a nice driveway and entrance so that worshippers can be dropped off at the front door and not get wet.
Click to expand...




Polishprince said:


> The church will definitely be rebuilt. I think the new Notre Dame Cathedral will make the one lost today look pathetic in comparison.


Talk about pathetic 


Polishprince said:


> This is an excellent opportunity to install a state of the art video and sound system, first class seating to provide more room for 21st Century rear ends. People were a lot skinnier when ND was originally built with the regular famines and that they had. An automated bell ringing system will eliminate the need to hire bell ringers. The HVAC system can be upgraded, as well as building a nice driveway and entrance so that worshippers can be dropped off at the front door and not get wet.


WAKE UP...WTF is wrong with you people


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

SweetSue92 said:


> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.



Why?  I go to Europe for work all the time.  In fact, I'm here right now.  Never had a problem with anyone


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

I'll say it again, since it apparently wasn't clear the first time since I've had to remove five people from this thread so far.  If you attempt to turn this into a Muslim conspiracy you will be banned from the thread and receive points for ignoring warnings.


----------



## Pilot1

SweetSue92 said:


> xband said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So tragic. Think about a building for which construction starting in the 1100s. The mind boggles. And I hesitate to admit this but, I was in Paris in 1987 in my late teens and have vivid memories of the Louvre, the parks, the Seine, the cafes, the Tuilleries--but I do not remember visiting Notre Dame. I know we DID, but we had just come off a two week trip in England in which we visited cathedral after cathedral and so....yeah. In my defense I wasn't even twenty yet so.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never been to France let alone Europe and most of my adventures were in the Far East.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.
Click to expand...


Me too.  I travelled extensively in Europe for business in the 80's, and 90's, and glad I got to see it then when it was still European.  I don't know if I would recognize it today, but I do think the media tends to distort things so I'd like to see it again and decide for myself.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Pilot1 said:


> Me too.  I travelled extensively in Europe for business in the 80's, and 90's, and glad I got to see it then when it was still European.  I don't know if I would recognize it today, but I do think the media tends to distort things so I'd like to see it again and decide for myself.



It's hardly that different.  I go all the time for work.


----------



## MAGAman

Biff_Poindexter said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> christianity will prevail. Truth wins all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Therefore, there is no need to freak out and wet your bed over muslims....
Click to expand...

Oh, Great...

I thought there was going to be a thread without a whiney leftist trying to turn it in to something else.

My mistake.


----------



## MAGAman

basquebromance said:


> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.


Or Global Warming


----------



## SweetSue92

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  I go to Europe for work all the time.  In fact, I'm here right now.  Never had a problem with anyone
Click to expand...


Well since you asked: in a word, terrorism. I don't feel it's safe anymore.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

SweetSue92 said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  I go to Europe for work all the time.  In fact, I'm here right now.  Never had a problem with anyone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well since you asked: in a word, terrorism. I don't feel it's safe anymore.
Click to expand...


The worst terrorist attack happened in the USA, not Europe


----------



## SweetSue92

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  I go to Europe for work all the time.  In fact, I'm here right now.  Never had a problem with anyone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well since you asked: in a word, terrorism. I don't feel it's safe anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The worst terrorist attack happened in the USA, not Europe
Click to expand...


I understand that but they're very pervasive there now. I wouldn't go there and wouldn't let my minor kids go on school trips there. I wasn't alone--pretty much every school trip to Europe in my district was canceled. No one wanted to send their kids. 

I'm just tell you how it is.


----------



## Pilot1

SweetSue92 said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  I go to Europe for work all the time.  In fact, I'm here right now.  Never had a problem with anyone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well since you asked: in a word, terrorism. I don't feel it's safe anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The worst terrorist attack happened in the USA, not Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that but they're very pervasive there now. I wouldn't go there and wouldn't let my minor kids go on school trips there. I wasn't alone--pretty much every school trip to Europe in my district was canceled. No one wanted to send their kids.
> 
> I'm just tell you how it is.
Click to expand...


You're much more likely to win the Powerball Lottery, or be struck by lightning than being a victim of terrorism, here or in Europe.  The Media sells FEAR to make you watch more.  Don't believe it.  Do I think Europe is going down the wrong path with flooding their country with refugees?  Yes, but that doesn't mean it is unsafe to travel there.  

I am more concerned with Europe losing its native culture, country by country than I am with the threat of being a victim of terrorism.


----------



## JoeB131

SweetSue92 said:


> I understand that but they're very pervasive there now. I wouldn't go there and wouldn't let my minor kids go on school trips there. I wasn't alone--pretty much every school trip to Europe in my district was canceled. No one wanted to send their kids.
> 
> I'm just tell you how it is.



Yes, you folks in Jesus-land are pretty ignorant.  

The chances of being caught in a terrorist incident in the US (and by Terrorist, you mean those icky Muslims, not white people, who commit a lot more violence) or Europe is actually about the same- pretty small.


----------



## Mindful

JoeB131 said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that but they're very pervasive there now. I wouldn't go there and wouldn't let my minor kids go on school trips there. I wasn't alone--pretty much every school trip to Europe in my district was canceled. No one wanted to send their kids.
> 
> I'm just tell you how it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you folks in Jesus-land are pretty ignorant.
> 
> The chances of being caught in a terrorist incident in the US (and by Terrorist, you mean those icky Muslims, not white people, who commit a lot more violence) or Europe is actually about the same- pretty small.
Click to expand...


Only because the secret service police in Europe is so good at surveillance in preventing them.


----------



## Mindful




----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

SweetSue92 said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  I go to Europe for work all the time.  In fact, I'm here right now.  Never had a problem with anyone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well since you asked: in a word, terrorism. I don't feel it's safe anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The worst terrorist attack happened in the USA, not Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that but they're very pervasive there now. I wouldn't go there and wouldn't let my minor kids go on school trips there. I wasn't alone--pretty much every school trip to Europe in my district was canceled. No one wanted to send their kids.
> 
> I'm just tell you how it is.
Click to expand...


That viewpoint is based in irrational paranoia.  There is no reason whatsoever to be fearful of coming to Europe.  You're safer in most places here than you are in most major American cities.


----------



## Weatherman2020

French are way to quick to call it an accident. Arson investigation takes weeks, sometimes months to determine cause.


----------



## rightwinger

Weatherman2020 said:


> French are way to quick to call it an accident. Arson investigation takes weeks, sometimes months to determine cause.


If the fire started high in the ceiling, it is difficult for an arsonist to access


----------



## Mindful

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> French are way to quick to call it an accident. Arson investigation takes weeks, sometimes months to determine cause.
> 
> 
> 
> If the fire started high in the ceiling, it is difficult for an arsonist to access
Click to expand...


It was difficult for the fire fighters to access, also.


----------



## depotoo

buttercup said:


> What's the latest? (I don't have a TV, and the clips I'm seeing online are not recent.)
> 
> This thread is disappointing....  trolls who wouldn't give it a rest, and people quickly trying to politicize it.



Hey, buttercup, france24 online is reporting on it.  I just found this info-

"Now we're in the phase of investigating," fire service spokesman Gabriel Plus told reporters, declaring only at around 10am on Tuesday that the fire had finally been extinguished.

And this-

Regarding the precious artwork inside, Culture Minister Franck Riester said no one had yet been able to fully inspect the extent of the fire and water damage inside.

"We'll have to wait for a while to do a full inventory," he said, adding that the organ appeared to have been "badly damaged" as had many paintings and frescos.

The Holy Crown of Thorns and a sacred tunic worn by 13th-century French king Louis, two irreplaceable artefacts, had been rescued along with the church's main crucifix, and placed with others at the Paris town hall.

Notre-Dame Cathedral - FRANCE24


----------



## Weatherman2020

Mindful said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> French are way to quick to call it an accident. Arson investigation takes weeks, sometimes months to determine cause.
> 
> 
> 
> If the fire started high in the ceiling, it is difficult for an arsonist to access
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was difficult for the fire fighters to access, also.
Click to expand...

The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.


----------



## Mindful

SweetSue92 said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grateful I went in the late 80s to be honest. I surely would not want to go to Europe now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  I go to Europe for work all the time.  In fact, I'm here right now.  Never had a problem with anyone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well since you asked: in a word, terrorism. I don't feel it's safe anymore.
Click to expand...


I live in Europe; and we feel safe (relatively) because we are on the whole well protected. Concrete  road blocks and armed police presence have become the norm. Can you imagine that? Getting used to it? They even get the American MP's in as backup sometimes.

Parts of Berlin are too dangerous to venture out in. Some areas of the city, even the police won't go there.

There was a truck ramming into pedestrians incident in Sweden the other week.


----------



## Mindful

depotoo said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the latest? (I don't have a TV, and the clips I'm seeing online are not recent.)
> 
> This thread is disappointing....  trolls who wouldn't give it a rest, and people quickly trying to politicize it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, buttercup, france24 online is reporting on it.  I just found this info-
> 
> "Now we're in the phase of investigating," fire service spokesman Gabriel Plus told reporters, declaring only at around 10am on Tuesday that the fire had finally been extinguished.
> 
> And this-
> 
> Regarding the precious artwork inside, Culture Minister Franck Riester said no one had yet been able to fully inspect the extent of the fire and water damage inside.
> 
> "We'll have to wait for a while to do a full inventory," he said, adding that the organ appeared to have been "badly damaged" as had many paintings and frescos.
> 
> The Holy Crown of Thorns and a sacred tunic worn by 13th-century French king Louis, two irreplaceable artefacts, had been rescued along with the church's main crucifix, and placed with others at the Paris town hall.
> 
> Notre-Dame Cathedral - FRANCE24
Click to expand...



Well that's something to be thankful for.


----------



## rightwinger

Weatherman2020 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> French are way to quick to call it an accident. Arson investigation takes weeks, sometimes months to determine cause.
> 
> 
> 
> If the fire started high in the ceiling, it is difficult for an arsonist to access
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was difficult for the fire fighters to access, also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
Click to expand...

Conservatives can't stop the hate


----------



## Weatherman2020

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> French are way to quick to call it an accident. Arson investigation takes weeks, sometimes months to determine cause.
> 
> 
> 
> If the fire started high in the ceiling, it is difficult for an arsonist to access
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was difficult for the fire fighters to access, also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
Click to expand...

Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.


----------



## OldLady

keepitreal said:


> Just saw a headline on google news page...
> 
> Investigation begins into Notre Dame Cathedral fire
> 
> Ummm, why did they already rule out
> arson or terrorists?





Lucy Hamilton said:


> keepitreal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has happened to Notre Dame is a BIG SIGN, it is an Omen of what is to come.
> 
> 
> 
> Why though do you think it is a BIG SIGN?
> 
> What do you see as an omen, of things to come?
> 
> You first, then I'll answer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I will have to respond to this post sleep, I am emotionally exhausted and I am getting a migraine this TRAUMATISING event of Notre Dame has affected me in a way I never thought I would ever be affected.
Click to expand...

Lucy, we are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame, no matter what our religion.  It was a beauty of a church and so historic.  But remember it is only a building, however precious, and not the real Church. 
_Matthew 18-20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”_


----------



## rightwinger

Not 


Weatherman2020 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> French are way to quick to call it an accident. Arson investigation takes weeks, sometimes months to determine cause.
> 
> 
> 
> If the fire started high in the ceiling, it is difficult for an arsonist to access
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was difficult for the fire fighters to access, also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
Click to expand...


Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories


----------



## Weatherman2020

rightwinger said:


> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the fire started high in the ceiling, it is difficult for an arsonist to access
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was difficult for the fire fighters to access, also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
Click to expand...

Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.


----------



## rightwinger

Weatherman2020 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was difficult for the fire fighters to access, also.
> 
> 
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
Click to expand...

Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
What an ass


----------



## Weatherman2020

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
Click to expand...

Why would anyone blame Muslims?  It was Paris and Holy Week.


----------



## Weatherman2020

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Corinthians 5:1


----------



## pismoe

Mindful said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that but they're very pervasive there now. I wouldn't go there and wouldn't let my minor kids go on school trips there. I wasn't alone--pretty much every school trip to Europe in my district was canceled. No one wanted to send their kids.
> 
> I'm just tell you how it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you folks in Jesus-land are pretty ignorant.
> 
> The chances of being caught in a terrorist incident in the US (and by Terrorist, you mean those icky Muslims, not white people, who commit a lot more violence) or Europe is actually about the same- pretty small.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only because the secret service police in Europe is so good at surveillance in preventing them.
Click to expand...

-----------------------------------------   its pretty much a Police State in 'euro land' eh Mindful .   Good to hear [chuckle] !!    ------------  Most everyone is SAFE eh ??


----------



## basquebromance

the French are seeking emotional catharsis over financial stability. they will rebuild Notre Dame no matter how much it costs. it will cost 150 million dollars. that's ok!


----------



## pismoe

xband said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So tragic. Think about a building for which construction starting in the 1100s. The mind boggles. And I hesitate to admit this but, I was in Paris in 1987 in my late teens and have vivid memories of the Louvre, the parks, the Seine, the cafes, the Tuilleries--but I do not remember visiting Notre Dame. I know we DID, but we had just come off a two week trip in England in which we visited cathedral after cathedral and so....yeah. In my defense I wasn't even twenty yet so.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never been to France let alone Europe and most of my adventures were in the Far East. South East Asia.
Click to expand...

------------------------------------------   i just messed around in the USA .   I was Coast to Coast by thumb and by motorcycle during the mid and late 60s .


----------



## pismoe

bodecea said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Riiiiiiight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.
> 
> So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What expertise do you base that statement on?
Click to expand...

------------------------------------   no expertise or special info but just '  Common Sense ' to think that it MIGHT be 'muslim' terrorism  .   Especially this Easter week and because it was this Particular building .  After all , this building is a Special Christian and Western Civilization Symbol isn't it   Bode ??


----------



## pismoe

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
Click to expand...

-------------------------------------   aw man , you are a funny guy  RW as you say Fire not even out and he blames 'muslims' .   I ask , why not if that is his / her suspicion  RWinger .


----------



## pismoe

basquebromance said:


> the French are seeking emotional catharsis over financial stability. they will rebuild Notre Dame no matter how much it costs. it will cost 150 million dollars. that's ok!


--------------------------   ok with me but isn't 150 million Dollars a pittance to rebuild this ICON of Christianity .  [just asking . maybe French tradesmen work for cheap]   But i think that President Trump carries that much money as walking around money BBro .


----------



## pismoe

skye said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> airplanemechanic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing survives 850 years of war, weather and wear and what brings it down is some no-name moron with a tig welder.
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

--------------------------------------------    yeah , right on Skye !!!


----------



## Faun

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The French should have planned ahead, and if a worker can access the roof so can an arsonist. Probably half the workers were Muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
Click to expand...

Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.


----------



## pismoe

Faun said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
Click to expand...

-----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun


----------



## Faun

pismoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
Click to expand...

Bigotry is not healthy speculation.


----------



## depotoo

Live


----------



## pismoe

Faun said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> 
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
Click to expand...

--------------------------------------------   you are a silly 'boi - boy' and that slight insult is not Speculation  Faun !!


----------



## Polishprince

Faun said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> 
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
Click to expand...



Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?


----------



## Faun

Polishprince said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> 
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
Click to expand...

Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.

See how stupid that is?


----------



## bodecea

pismoe said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONE COMMENT ON CAUSE.....
> 
> 2 hours after the blaze was going, when building was fully engulfed... French officials were already saying they "believe it was an accident".
> Now...how the hell could they possibly know anything before  investigators were within 100 yards of it, let alone make claims to how it started??
> 
> 
> 
> This is all Macron’s doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Riiiiiiight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The fire spread too fast and grew too big to be an accident.
> 
> So that leaves either Muslim terrorists who most likely would have done it before the renovations, or somebody connected to the failing French government desperate to defeat the yellow vests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What expertise do you base that statement on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ------------------------------------   no expertise or special info but just '  Common Sense ' to think that it MIGHT be 'muslim' terrorism  .   Especially this Easter week and because it was this Particular building .  After all , this building is a Special Christian and Western Civilization Symbol isn't it   Bode ??
Click to expand...

Just like the federal building in Oklahoma City, right?  And.....no building has ever ever burned due to carelessness when repairing/welding, right?


----------



## bodecea

So.....is that "2 hours to respond" lie still spinning around the CRC social media sphere?


----------



## MAGAman

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, you folks in Jesus-land are pretty ignorant.
> 
> The chances of being caught in a terrorist incident in the US (and by Terrorist, you mean those icky Muslims, not white people, who commit a lot more violence) or Europe is actually about the same- pretty small.


You folks in Fascist land are just plain silly.

Both of those are more likely than being murdered by an NRA member in an open carry state.


----------



## Mindful

depotoo said:


> Live



Have you seen the Arabic version?


----------



## pismoe

Faun said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
Click to expand...

--------------------------------  Speculate about the 'mosk' burning all you like .   Unless you are trying to change topic , who cares about a 'mosk' burning in Jerusalem or a USA Federal Building  Faun and Bode ??


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Polishprince said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> 
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
Click to expand...



Heck -- the destruction of indigenous religious buildings is a well established pattern of Islamic conquest since Mohammad invented Islam. 

 This has been a steady component of Islamic expansion for 1400 years absolutely without fail. Authoritarians who know absolutely nothing about Islam and seek to protect it from criticism (which they do NOT do when Judaism or Christianity are the target) are not only doing so to favor Islam, but ignoring 1400 years of history.


----------



## pismoe

but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .


----------



## rightwinger

pismoe said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -------------------------------------   aw man , you are a funny guy  RW as you say Fire not even out and he blames 'muslims' .   I ask , why not if that is his / her suspicion  RWinger .
Click to expand...

Until there is evidence to the contrary

Accident......save your hate


----------



## pismoe

Dogmaphobe said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Heck -- the destruction of indigenous religious buildings is a well established pattern of Islamic conquest since Mohammad invented Islam.
> 
> This has been a steady component of Islamic expansion for 1400 years absolutely without fail. Authoritarians who know absolutely nothing about Islam and seek to protect it from criticism (which they do NOT do when Judaism or Christianity are the target) are not only doing so to favor Islam, but ignoring 1400 years of history.
Click to expand...

------------------------------------   absolutely correct , good post  . thank you Dogma .


----------



## rightwinger

pismoe said:


> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .


May have been spaceships from mars
We can't be sure


----------



## Cosmos

OldLady said:


> Lucy, we are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame, no matter what our religion. It was a beauty of a church and so historic. But remember it is only a building, however precious, and not the real Church.



What an idiotic statement.  This is one of the oldest, most famous, and iconic symbols of Christianity in the world.  It's not "just a building".


Ilhan Omar's Response To Notre Dame Cathedral Burning Down Draws Criticism


----------



## Dogmaphobe

pismoe said:


> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .



In a similar vein, if I hear that a child was killed by a dog, I find myself thinking that there may be the teensiest weensiest little probability that it involved a pit bull instead of a dachshund.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

rightwinger said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> May have been spaceships from mars
> We can't be sure
Click to expand...



You should have one of the older kids explain to you the notion of probability some day.


----------



## pismoe

Faun said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
Click to expand...

--------------------------------------------------  Not stupid , there MAY have been Lefty Westerners that started the fire .  Many  Lefty Westerners sure do hate Western Civilization    Faun .      [remember the anti Western chant from the 60s that you were chanting as a young college 'feck' Faun ]


----------



## depotoo

Mindful said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the Arabic version?
Click to expand...

No


----------



## rightwinger

Dogmaphobe said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> May have been spaceships from mars
> We can't be sure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You should have one of the older kids explain to you the notion of probability some day.
Click to expand...

LOL

High probability among anti Muslim bigots
Tragic accident to everyone else

Sad that you use such a tragic event to spread your hate
Not what cathedrals are about


----------



## Faun

pismoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------  Speculate about the 'mosk' burning all you like .   Unless you are trying to change topic , who cares about a 'mosk' burning in Jerusalem or a USA Federal Building  Faun and Bode ??
Click to expand...

I care about bigotry. It's what motivated the Nazi's and it's what motivates conservatives.


----------



## Mindful

Faun said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> 
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------  Speculate about the 'mosk' burning all you like .   Unless you are trying to change topic , who cares about a 'mosk' burning in Jerusalem or a USA Federal Building  Faun and Bode ??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I care about bigotry. It's what motivated the Nazi's and it's what motivates conservatives.
Click to expand...


No it wasn't, and no it isn't

You're just using this tragic event to promote your own bias and bigotry.


----------



## Faun

pismoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------  Not stupid , there MAY have been Lefty Westerners that started the fire .  Many  Lefty Westerners sure do hate Western Civilization    Faun .      [remember the anti Western chant from the 60s that you were chanting as a young college 'feck' Faun ]
Click to expand...

Moron, I wasn't in college in the 60's. Or the 70's, for that matter. Meanwhile, you're speculating without an ounce of evidence.

Your bigotry compels you to do so.


----------



## Polishprince

It could have been libs, of course.  Jesse Jackson likes to lead liberals with the chant "hey ho hey ho, western civ has got to go", and the Paris cathedral is a true symbol of our civilization.  

Liberals would like to transform us to get rid of this kind of thing, civilizations they love, like in the Middle East and deepest, darkest Africa don't go for things like Notre Dame


----------



## OldLady

Cosmos said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy, we are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame, no matter what our religion. It was a beauty of a church and so historic. But remember it is only a building, however precious, and not the real Church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an idiotic statement.  This is one of the oldest, most famous, and iconic symbols of Christianity in the world.  It's not "just a building".
Click to expand...

I know that.  The complexity of what I was trying to say to Lucy is lost on you.  Lucy's reaction was deeper than losing an icon--it seemed as if to her Christianity itself took a huge hit.  Or maybe I misunderstood her.


----------



## bodecea

Dogmaphobe said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a similar vein, if I hear that a child was killed by a dog, I find myself thinking that there may be the teensiest weensiest little probability that it involved a pit bull instead of a dachshund.
Click to expand...

True, but the only dog I've ever had issues with its viciousness has been dachshunds.


----------



## Mindful

bodecea said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a similar vein, if I hear that a child was killed by a dog, I find myself thinking that there may be the teensiest weensiest little probability that it involved a pit bull instead of a dachshund.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True, but the only dog I've ever had issues with its viciousness has been dachshunds.
Click to expand...


Corgis are worse. Nasty little creatures.


----------



## basquebromance

we may stumble and fall, but shall rise again, it should be enough if we did not run away from the battle!


----------



## bodecea

pismoe said:


> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .


It may also have been some smoker flicking his cig in the wrong place too......much much more likely.


----------



## Cosmos

OldLady said:


> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy, we are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame, no matter what our religion. It was a beauty of a church and so historic. But remember it is only a building, however precious, and not the real Church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an idiotic statement.  This is one of the oldest, most famous, and iconic symbols of Christianity in the world.  It's not "just a building".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know that.  The complexity of what I was trying to say to Lucy is lost on you.  Lucy's reaction was deeper than losing an icon--it seemed as if to her Christianity itself took a huge hit.  Or maybe I misunderstood her.
Click to expand...


She's right.  Christianity itself did take a huge hit.  That's what this is about.  To see it trivialized as nothing more than "art and architecture" is an enormous slap in the face.


----------



## Mindful

A seemingly innocuous reason caused the devastating fire of Windsor Castle.

The *fire* started in the Queen's private chapel when a curtain that was pressed up against a spotlight burst into flames. It *caused* an estimated £37 million of damage and took months to restore the palace, in particular the St George chapel, to its former glory.


----------



## pismoe

Faun said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> 
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------  Not stupid , there MAY have been Lefty Westerners that started the fire .  Many  Lefty Westerners sure do hate Western Civilization    Faun .      [remember the anti Western chant from the 60s that you were chanting as a young college 'feck' Faun ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moron, I wasn't in college in the 60's. Or the 70's, for that matter. Meanwhile, you're speculating without an ounce of evidence.
> 
> Your bigotry compels you to do so.
Click to expand...

--------------------------------------   I'll do as i like on a FREE SPEECH message board in the USA , the Land of Free Speech Faun me boy - boi   [and a college 'feck' poser wearing a 'beret' and a 'che' t-shirt , probably hanging in the Cafeteria !!]  [chuckle]  Can you dig it eh Faun ??


----------



## Faun

pismoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------  Not stupid , there MAY have been Lefty Westerners that started the fire .  Many  Lefty Westerners sure do hate Western Civilization    Faun .      [remember the anti Western chant from the 60s that you were chanting as a young college 'feck' Faun ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moron, I wasn't in college in the 60's. Or the 70's, for that matter. Meanwhile, you're speculating without an ounce of evidence.
> 
> Your bigotry compels you to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------------   I'll do as i like on a FREE SPEECH message board in the USA , the Land of Free Speech Faun me boy - boi   [and a college 'feck' poser wearing a 'beret' and a 'che' t-shirt , probably hanging in the Cafeteria !!]  [chuckle]  Can you dig it eh Faun ??
Click to expand...

LOLOL

You dumbshit. Who said you can't be a bigot??


----------



## pismoe

and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .


----------



## Polishprince

bodecea said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> It may also have been some smoker flicking his cig in the wrong place too......much much more likely.
Click to expand...



That's certainly a possibility, to be fair.

However, when ever a church or an abortuary burns in America, libs always immediately look to blame it on 'racist conservative hate'.   Instead of careless smokers, electrical problems, lightning or even insurance fraud.


----------



## Dick Foster

I'm happy to hear that the three rose windows escaped the fire for the most part.
Since everyone is guessing what caused the fire, I will hazard my guess.
Since there were lots of workers on the site for restoration work and it was the end of the day my guess is a power tool battery undergoing recharge may have been the cause of the fire. Everyone knows how volatile lithium batteries can be and they were working on that old dried out wood that made up the forest which framed and supported the roof. So that's my guess. It's not hard to imagine that a worker dropped a power tool battery into a charger to recharge over night as is a very familiar and common practice.


----------



## pismoe

Faun said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------   whats wrong with Healthy speculation , questioning and thinking about this burning of this Famous Christian Building .   And who is Casting Blame Faun
> 
> 
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------  Not stupid , there MAY have been Lefty Westerners that started the fire .  Many  Lefty Westerners sure do hate Western Civilization    Faun .      [remember the anti Western chant from the 60s that you were chanting as a young college 'feck' Faun ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moron, I wasn't in college in the 60's. Or the 70's, for that matter. Meanwhile, you're speculating without an ounce of evidence.
> 
> Your bigotry compels you to do so.
Click to expand...

----------------------------------------   and that is the definition of SPECULATION .   It is thinking and questioning because a person has NO Evidence .   Do a google on definition of Speculation  Faun and all yew other good people .


----------



## Coyote

bodecea said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that.  Given that the walls have burned, I doubt much art can be saved.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
Click to expand...

Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.


----------



## boedicca

Coyote said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, unlike the claim that they are doing nothing and just letting it burn, they are trying....and not all artwork is/was wall paintings.   It isn't the Sistine Chapel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
Click to expand...


B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.


----------



## depotoo

It was just reported there were no workers onsite when the fire started.  They had all left earlier after their work day.   The fire started at 6:30.


----------



## Faun

pismoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bigotry is not healthy speculation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims have burned other Christian buildings in Europe in past- what's "bigoted" about looking at those with a history of this kind of thing first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Christians have attacked Mosques... employing the brain-dead bigoted logic of the right, Christians probably started yesterday's fire in the Jerusalem mosque.
> 
> See how stupid that is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --------------------------------------------------  Not stupid , there MAY have been Lefty Westerners that started the fire .  Many  Lefty Westerners sure do hate Western Civilization    Faun .      [remember the anti Western chant from the 60s that you were chanting as a young college 'feck' Faun ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Moron, I wasn't in college in the 60's. Or the 70's, for that matter. Meanwhile, you're speculating without an ounce of evidence.
> 
> Your bigotry compels you to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ----------------------------------------   and that is the definition of SPECULATION .   It is thinking and questioning because a person has NO Evidence .   Do a google on definition of Speculation  Faun and all yew other good people .
Click to expand...

No, speculating with no evidence, as you are doing, is based on your own bigotry since you are speculating while there is evidence it was started by nothing more than an accident by the folks working on the restoration.


----------



## depotoo

bodecea said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> It may also have been some smoker flicking his cig in the wrong place too......much much more likely.
Click to expand...

All the workers had previously left for their work day, it is being reported.  The fire started at 6:30, also.


----------



## Coyote

gallantwarrior said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing lasts forever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True...and sadly we have lost the desire to create buildings like that anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not sure we've lost the desire.  I think it is human nature to create things like that.  But with the way governments run our nations now, with laws and regulations, etc., I'm not sure the plan to build such an edifice would meet the standards of years of studies and litigation.
Click to expand...

I think it is more a factor of efficiency and cost over beauty


----------



## depotoo




----------



## Coyote

Bush92 said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas tanks and documents in Arabic were found in an unmarked car next to Notre Dame cathedral, sparking fresh terror fears and at least four arrests, according to French reports.
> 
> 
> Daily Telegraph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That article is from 2016.
> Gas tanks and Arabic documents found in unmarked car by Paris' Notre Dame cathedral spark terror fears
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let’s pray there was not an attempt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There have already been two foiled terror plots against the Strasbourg cathedral. The last one as recent as Christmas 2018.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would not be surprised if this wasn’t an act of a terrorist. Why you can’t have open borders. If this was the act of an ISIS affiliate then France must blame themselves for not providing border security.
Click to expand...

No evidence of that just a dumbass article from 2016 that some One posted as if it were current news.


----------



## boedicca

depotoo said:


> It was just reported there were no workers onsite when the fire started.  They had all left earlier after their work day.   The fire started at 6:30.




The fire started earlier than that.  I've noticed a shifting in the reporting to make it later and later.   The original reports said 5:50pm


----------



## OldLady

Cosmos said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy, we are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame, no matter what our religion. It was a beauty of a church and so historic. But remember it is only a building, however precious, and not the real Church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an idiotic statement.  This is one of the oldest, most famous, and iconic symbols of Christianity in the world.  It's not "just a building".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know that.  The complexity of what I was trying to say to Lucy is lost on you.  Lucy's reaction was deeper than losing an icon--it seemed as if to her Christianity itself took a huge hit.  Or maybe I misunderstood her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's right.  Christianity itself did take a huge hit.  That's what this is about.  To see it trivialized as nothing more than "art and architecture" is an enormous slap in the face.
Click to expand...

I didn't "trivialize" it.  _We are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame._
You still don't get what I'm saying.  It is, in the end, a building, not the faith itself.


----------



## boedicca

OldLady said:


> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy, we are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame, no matter what our religion. It was a beauty of a church and so historic. But remember it is only a building, however precious, and not the real Church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an idiotic statement.  This is one of the oldest, most famous, and iconic symbols of Christianity in the world.  It's not "just a building".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know that.  The complexity of what I was trying to say to Lucy is lost on you.  Lucy's reaction was deeper than losing an icon--it seemed as if to her Christianity itself took a huge hit.  Or maybe I misunderstood her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's right.  Christianity itself did take a huge hit.  That's what this is about.  To see it trivialized as nothing more than "art and architecture" is an enormous slap in the face.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't "trivialize" it.  _We are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame._
> You still don't get what I'm saying.  It is, in the end, a building, not the faith itself.
Click to expand...


The building is far more than a building.  It's an enduring symbol of the Catholic faith that took nearly two centuries to build by hand.  The very construction was a great act of devotion.  Symbols Have Meaning.


----------



## OldLady

boedicca said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was just reported there were no workers onsite when the fire started.  They had all left earlier after their work day.   The fire started at 6:30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fire started earlier than that.  I've noticed a shifting in the reporting to make it later and later.   The original reports said 5:50pm
Click to expand...

A local group of high school students is in Paris right now, and it was on the front page of the paper this morning.  One of the teachers with them said that they were on their way to the Eiffel Tower at about 6 p.m. when they got the news of the fire at Notre Dame.
The last article I read said that the initial fire alarm went off at 6 p.m. and they checked but found no fire.  It went off again at 6:23 p.m. when fire was found.
So there's a little confusion, I guess, but it was around then.


----------



## OldLady

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lucy, we are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame, no matter what our religion. It was a beauty of a church and so historic. But remember it is only a building, however precious, and not the real Church.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an idiotic statement.  This is one of the oldest, most famous, and iconic symbols of Christianity in the world.  It's not "just a building".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know that.  The complexity of what I was trying to say to Lucy is lost on you.  Lucy's reaction was deeper than losing an icon--it seemed as if to her Christianity itself took a huge hit.  Or maybe I misunderstood her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She's right.  Christianity itself did take a huge hit.  That's what this is about.  To see it trivialized as nothing more than "art and architecture" is an enormous slap in the face.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't "trivialize" it.  _We are all mourning the destruction of Notre Dame._
> You still don't get what I'm saying.  It is, in the end, a building, not the faith itself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The building is far more than a building.  It's an enduring symbol of the Catholic faith that took nearly two centuries to build by hand.  The very construction was a great act of devotion.  Symbols Have Meaning.
Click to expand...

Of course they do.  I guess I'm not making myself clear, so I give up.


----------



## Cosmos

OldLady said:


> You still don't get what I'm saying. It is, in the end, a building, not the faith itself



And I'm saying, "What an idiotic and insensitive thing to say".


How about if somebody "accidentally" blew this abomination to smithereens?  Would it just be "a building"?


----------



## OldLady

boedicca said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
Click to expand...

That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.


----------



## OldLady

Cosmos said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> You still don't get what I'm saying. It is, in the end, a building, not the faith itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm saying, "What an idiotic and insensitive thing to say".
> 
> 
> How about if somebody "accidentally" blew this abomination to smithereens?  Would it just be "a building"?
> 
> View attachment 256151
Click to expand...

Sorry you took it that way, and I have a feeling no matter how well I explain what I meant, you won't want to hear it.
The destruction of the cathedral was very sad to all of us.  As I said before.
Take it as you will.


----------



## boedicca

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
Click to expand...



I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.

Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online


----------



## rightwinger

Polishprince said:


> It could have been libs, of course.  Jesse Jackson likes to lead liberals with the chant "hey ho hey ho, western civ has got to go", and the Paris cathedral is a true symbol of our civilization.
> 
> Liberals would like to transform us to get rid of this kind of thing, civilizations they love, like in the Middle East and deepest, darkest Africa don't go for things like Notre Dame


Jesse Jackson said that?

Linky, Linky


----------



## rightwinger

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...


Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks 
What would you have done?


----------



## OldLady

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...

Whatever.

Believe whatever floats your boat, which in your case is to attack the Paris authorities.


----------



## Polishprince

rightwinger said:


> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?



President Trump was very clear on what could have been done.   But apparently President Macron unwilling to take advice.



*Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 23h23 hours ago
So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!


----------



## boedicca

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
Click to expand...


Oh puhleeze.   Fire engines with sirens can maneuver through traffic.


----------



## bendog

Polishprince said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Trump was very clear on what could have been done.   But apparently President Macron unwilling to take advice.
> 
> 
> 
> *Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 23h23 hours ago
> So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
Click to expand...

AIRTANKERS, AND PRESIDENT TRUMP OFFERED TO FLY THEM OVER


----------



## boedicca

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Believe whatever floats your boat, which in your case is to attack the Paris authorities.
Click to expand...



I believe what I personally observed.  I realize that making your own assessments based on direct observation is beyond your scope, but que sera sera.


----------



## depotoo

The Chaplain of the fire brigade ran in and saved the Crown of Thorns and the Blessed Sacrament.
The famous statue of Mary and Jesus appears undamaged-


----------



## Cosmos

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...


What's the matter with the French?  I know they're cheap, but seriously?  No fire suppression equipment installed in Notre Dame?  How about the dozens of other irreplaceable buildings in Paris?  Are we going to led to believe that Notre Dame burned down because of a cigarette butt and there wasn't even a smoke detector in the place?


----------



## bendog

Cosmos said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the matter with the French?  I know they're cheap, but seriously?  No fire suppression equipment installed in Notre Dame?  How about the dozens of other irreplaceable buildings in Paris?  Are we going to led to believe that Notre Dame burned down because of a cigarette butt and there wasn't even a smoke detector in the place?
Click to expand...

Yeah
Trump Tower fire leaves man dead and 6 firefighters injured  - CNN


----------



## bendog

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Believe whatever floats your boat, which in your case is to attack the Paris authorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe what I personally observed.  I realize that making your own assessments based on direct observation is beyond your scope, but que sera sera.
Click to expand...

I think the French will figure out what happened.  Fortunately it seems repairs can fix the damage.  Remember when a very similar thing happened at Buckingham Palace?  As I recall some of the art was a total loss.


----------



## Dick Foster

bendog said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> 
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Believe whatever floats your boat, which in your case is to attack the Paris authorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe what I personally observed.  I realize that making your own assessments based on direct observation is beyond your scope, but que sera sera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the French will figure out what happened.  Fortunately it seems repairs can fix the damage.  Remember when a very similar thing happened at Buckingham Palace?  As I recall some of the art was a total loss.
Click to expand...

I think you're thinking of Winsor Castle not Buckingham Palace.


----------



## bendog

Dick Foster said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Believe whatever floats your boat, which in your case is to attack the Paris authorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe what I personally observed.  I realize that making your own assessments based on direct observation is beyond your scope, but que sera sera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the French will figure out what happened.  Fortunately it seems repairs can fix the damage.  Remember when a very similar thing happened at Buckingham Palace?  As I recall some of the art was a total loss.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you're thinking of Winsor Castle not Buckingham Palace.
Click to expand...

Thanks.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

pismoe said:


> and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .


Every time something like this happens, the same thing happen .Knowlegible people speculate on whether it might be Islamic terrorism .  Right on cue, a group of profoundly ignorant posters hurl abuse at those who are making an educated guess .

In 9 times out of 10, it turns out to be Islamic terrorism whereupon none of the attackers admit they were wrong, fail to learn a damn thing and then repeat the same process the next time, safe in the knowledge that they are favored over those who oppose Islam.


----------



## depotoo

They had sprinklers installed, from what I heard on france24





Cosmos said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the matter with the French?  I know they're cheap, but seriously?  No fire suppression equipment installed in Notre Dame?  How about the dozens of other irreplaceable buildings in Paris?  Are we going to led to believe that Notre Dame burned down because of a cigarette butt and there wasn't even a smoke detector in the place?
Click to expand...


----------



## bendog

Dogmaphobe said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .
> 
> 
> 
> Every time something like this happens, the same thing happen .Knowlegible people speculate on whether it might be Islamic terrorism .  Right on cue, a group of profoundly ignorant posters hurl abuse at those who are making an educated guess .
> 
> In 9 times out of 10, it turns out to be Islamic terrorism whereupon none of the attackers admit they were wrong, fail to learn a damn thing and then repeat the same process the next time, safe in the knowledge that they are favored over those who oppose Islam.
Click to expand...

It's not an "educated guess."


----------



## Dogmaphobe

bendog said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .
> 
> 
> 
> Every time something like this happens, the same thing happen .Knowlegible people speculate on whether it might be Islamic terrorism .  Right on cue, a group of profoundly ignorant posters hurl abuse at those who are making an educated guess .
> 
> In 9 times out of 10, it turns out to be Islamic terrorism whereupon none of the attackers admit they were wrong, fail to learn a damn thing and then repeat the same process the next time, safe in the knowledge that they are favored over those who oppose Islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not an "educated guess."
Click to expand...

Of course it is.  That is why it is correct in the large majority of instances.


----------



## pismoe

Dogmaphobe said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .
> 
> 
> 
> Every time something like this happens, the same thing happen .Knowlegible people speculate on whether it might be Islamic terrorism .  Right on cue, a group of profoundly ignorant posters hurl abuse at those who are making an educated guess .
> 
> In 9 times out of 10, it turns out to be Islamic terrorism whereupon none of the attackers admit they were wrong, fail to learn a damn thing and then repeat the same process the next time, safe in the knowledge that they are favored over those who oppose Islam.
Click to expand...

----------------------------   they never learn , and thats why i says that as time goes on it looks to me that they and their kids will get what the DESERVE  Dogma .


----------



## pismoe

course i don't trust the media , the [cowardly] 'western governments'  and its officials to speak or report facts and reality .


----------



## bodecea

pismoe said:


> and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .


You are absolutely correct...but let us not forget, we have free speech also.


----------



## bodecea

Polishprince said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> It may also have been some smoker flicking his cig in the wrong place too......much much more likely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's certainly a possibility, to be fair.
> 
> However, when ever a church or an abortuary burns in America, libs always immediately look to blame it on 'racist conservative hate'.   Instead of careless smokers, electrical problems, lightning or even insurance fraud.
Click to expand...

Oh really?   Share with us that libs "always immediately look to blame...."


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> The politicians are already spinning that the delay was due to rush hour congestion.   In Realityland, they failed in their duty to combat the fire.   So now the excuses will flow.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
Click to expand...

See?   There's that lie again.


----------



## bodecea

depotoo said:


> It was just reported there were no workers onsite when the fire started.  They had all left earlier after their work day.   The fire started at 6:30.


Ever heard of smoldering?   We had one of the worst wildfires here in San Diego over 10 years ago due to a campfire that "had been put out" that burst into flames over 24 hours later.


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was just reported there were no workers onsite when the fire started.  They had all left earlier after their work day.   The fire started at 6:30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fire started earlier than that.  I've noticed a shifting in the reporting to make it later and later.   The original reports said 5:50pm
Click to expand...

It's a conspiracy, I tell you!   The fire department was IN ON IT!!!!!!


----------



## bodecea

OldLady said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bendog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it may have been "rush hour."  But how could civil service types have approved any reconstruction without precautions.  I mean there IS a ready source of water, and pumps aren't hard to come by.  A failure for "the ages"
> 
> Personally, I thought it over rated among Paris touristey sites, and we'll always have the Disney movie.  (-:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
Click to expand...

I know, right?   But for some odd reason, it's a CRC lie being spread.


----------



## pismoe

bodecea said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct...but let us not forget, we have free speech also.
Click to expand...

-------------------------------------   AGREE , plus its a good thing as it keeps the thread going plus your replies demonstrate YOUR ignorance and nonthinking   Bode  .   No Offense Girl !!


----------



## boedicca

bodecea said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, right?   But for some odd reason, it's a CRC lie being spread.
Click to expand...



Oh blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz

You only believe what your msm masters tell you.  How sad, but fitting.


----------



## Polishprince

bodecea said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> but as regards the Notre Dame burning , it MAY have been an act of terrorism in my opinion  Ladies and Gents .
> 
> 
> 
> It may also have been some smoker flicking his cig in the wrong place too......much much more likely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's certainly a possibility, to be fair.
> 
> However, when ever a church or an abortuary burns in America, libs always immediately look to blame it on 'racist conservative hate'.   Instead of careless smokers, electrical problems, lightning or even insurance fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh really?   Share with us that libs "always immediately look to blame...."
Click to expand...



I'm talking about fires like the one at Hopewell Missionary Baptist Church in Greenville, MS.

initially blamed on President Trump, the lib mayor of the city demanded hate crime investigations.

Of course it did turn out to be arson, a liberal burned the place to raise awareness of church burnings.

But the point is that Libs were real quick to blame this on their political enemies before any investigation whatsoever.

Mississippi man pleads guilty in ‘Vote Trump’ church arson


----------



## Vastator

pismoe said:


> i'm simply going by Common Sense as to the POSSIBILITY of 'muslim' terrorism in burning this Iconic Western symbol and Christian Church .  Heck , 'muslims' have treatened the 'vatican' and they refer to it as the Land or Place of the CROSS Bode .  And 'media' or USA 'msm' in the USA will not mention muslim terrorism in this case , so far Bode .


Like has been said... “It’s to soon to jump to any conclusions”. Including concluding this was an accident...


----------



## iceberg




----------



## basquebromance

"White supremacists are literally fanning the flames of Islamophobia after the accidental fire at Notre Dame Cathedral. They use tragedy, social media, and disinformation to spread their hateful ideology."


----------



## WillowTree

it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.



Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims


The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”


----------



## depotoo

Govts never seem to be able to find money for historical monuments, or infrastructure, but they can for their pet projects and salaries.


----------



## Bleipriester

Yeah, that is today´s France. Do you know only every second official gets replaced?


----------



## pismoe

Vastator said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm simply going by Common Sense as to the POSSIBILITY of 'muslim' terrorism in burning this Iconic Western symbol and Christian Church .  Heck , 'muslims' have treatened the 'vatican' and they refer to it as the Land or Place of the CROSS Bode .  And 'media' or USA 'msm' in the USA will not mention muslim terrorism in this case , so far Bode .
> 
> 
> 
> Like has been said... “It’s to soon to jump to any conclusions”. Including concluding this was an accident...
Click to expand...

----------------------------------   AGREED , as for me though , i jump to no conclusion or final verdict .   I simply speculate knowing a little bit of 'muslim' actions in their 1400 hundred year past and then think about what caused this Church burning  VTator .


----------



## Polishprince

basquebromance said:


> "White supremacists are literally fanning the flames of Islamophobia after the accidental fire at Notre Dame Cathedral. They use tragedy, social media, and disinformation to spread their hateful ideology."




I have not seen any proof at all that the Notre Dame fire was truly accidental.  Before you can accuse anyone of the High Crime of "Islamophobia" ,   you really have to provide actual proof IMHO.


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a rather dramatic and emblematic failure of our governing elites.  They spend time and resources on nonsense (climate change, social engineering), and fail in their basic responsibilities of public and national safety.
> 
> And personally, I love Notre Dame and am horrified at what has happened to it.
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...

Sure you did......


----------



## depotoo

basquebromance said:


> "White supremacists are literally fanning the flames of Islamophobia after the accidental fire at Notre Dame Cathedral. They use tragedy, social media, and disinformation to spread their hateful ideology."


Oh, please basque, don’t be so dramatic, dear.


----------



## pismoe

its the assembled Boneheads that seem to be sure that this was an accident as some guy threw away his Gauloise   VTator .


----------



## bodecea

Polishprince said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Trump was very clear on what could have been done.   But apparently President Macron unwilling to take advice.
> 
> 
> 
> *Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 23h23 hours ago
> So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
Click to expand...

So...you would have followed donnie's advice and destroyed the cathedral completely...with the nearby tankers.....There WERE nearby tankers, right?


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Believe whatever floats your boat, which in your case is to attack the Paris authorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe what I personally observed.  I realize that making your own assessments based on direct observation is beyond your scope, but que sera sera.
Click to expand...

Suuuuuure......because you saw it on TV....everything....absolutely everything......


----------



## pismoe

depotoo said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> "White supremacists are literally fanning the flames of Islamophobia after the accidental fire at Notre Dame Cathedral. They use tragedy, social media, and disinformation to spread their hateful ideology."
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, please basque, don’t be so dramatic, dear.
Click to expand...

---------------------  [chuckle] , keep'er going eh BBro !!


----------



## Polishprince

bodecea said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Trump was very clear on what could have been done.   But apparently President Macron unwilling to take advice.
> 
> 
> 
> *Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 23h23 hours ago
> So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So...you would have followed donnie's advice and destroyed the cathedral completely...with the nearby tankers.....There WERE nearby tankers, right?
Click to expand...



The flying water tankers would have just put out the fire, not destroyed anything.   The key, as President Trump made clear, was to ACT QUICKLY.


----------



## bodecea

bendog said:


> Cosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's the matter with the French?  I know they're cheap, but seriously?  No fire suppression equipment installed in Notre Dame?  How about the dozens of other irreplaceable buildings in Paris?  Are we going to led to believe that Notre Dame burned down because of a cigarette butt and there wasn't even a smoke detector in the place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah
> Trump Tower fire leaves man dead and 6 firefighters injured  - CNN
Click to expand...

Interesting.


----------



## depotoo

What the heck is wrong with people??
Twitter







notre dame on fire is the most aesthetically pleasing visually i’ve ever seen


----------



## bodecea

bendog said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> 
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> Believe whatever floats your boat, which in your case is to attack the Paris authorities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I believe what I personally observed.  I realize that making your own assessments based on direct observation is beyond your scope, but que sera sera.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the French will figure out what happened.  Fortunately it seems repairs can fix the damage.  Remember when a very similar thing happened at Buckingham Palace?  As I recall some of the art was a total loss.
Click to expand...

Windsor Castle


----------



## rightwinger

Polishprince said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Trump was very clear on what could have been done.   But apparently President Macron unwilling to take advice.
> 
> 
> 
> *Donald J. Trump*‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 23h23 hours ago
> So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
Click to expand...

Our President knows nothing about fighting fires, knows nothing about the architecture and structural integrity of Notre Dame, knew nothing about the scope of the fire 

Just Monday morning quarterbacking


----------



## pismoe

maybe the French fire fighters were all on break smoking Gauloise's


----------



## ABikerSailor

WillowTree said:


> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”



Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.

From the OP's link...........................

*The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*


----------



## rightwinger

depotoo said:


> The Chaplain of the fire brigade ran in and saved the Crown of Thorns and the Blessed Sacrament.
> The famous statue of Mary and Jesus appears undamaged-
> 
> View attachment 256157
> 
> View attachment 256155


Amazing that much remained intact


----------



## rightwinger

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh puhleeze.   Fire engines with sirens can maneuver through traffic.
Click to expand...

Not gridlock in a major city

No place to pull over


----------



## WillowTree

ABikerSailor said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
Click to expand...



Correct! I read an article that said Victor Hugo wrote the novel in 1851 partly to highlight the need to restore the cathedral. So this has been a long time coming.


----------



## aaronleland

ABikerSailor said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
Click to expand...


Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.


----------



## ABikerSailor

aaronleland said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
Click to expand...


Careful how many times you say that.  Say it too many times, and some nutjobs on these boards will claim that the French set fire to it themselves to raise the money to refurbish it.


----------



## bodecea

pismoe said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and asking questions , thinking , speculating is the Western Way way to do things   Faun and Bode .    And NOTHING is Off Limits to speculate or ask questions on .
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely correct...but let us not forget, we have free speech also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -------------------------------------   AGREE , plus its a good thing as it keeps the thread going plus your replies demonstrate YOUR ignorance and nonthinking   Bode  .   No Offense Girl !!
Click to expand...

No offense taken...I always consider the source first.


----------



## WillowTree

aaronleland said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
Click to expand...

I read they would not be able to restore it to it’s original state because France did not have the tall trees it had back in the 12th century.


----------



## boedicca

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> 
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh puhleeze.   Fire engines with sirens can maneuver through traffic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not gridlock in a major city
> 
> No place to pull over
Click to expand...



B'loney.


----------



## bodecea

boedicca said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So.....this is the fault of climate change and social engineering.......................okay....
> 
> 
> 
> Ya....that is silly. Lets not make this political for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> B'loney. This tragedy was exacerbated by an incompetent response on the part of the government.   There was no fire fighting equipment used on site until 2 hours after the fire started.   Calling for "non-political" comments only is a call for a cover-up of bureaucratic malfeasance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know, right?   But for some odd reason, it's a CRC lie being spread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzzz
> 
> You only believe what your msm masters tell you.  How sad, but fitting.
Click to expand...

Very ironic by someone repeating the lie that the Paris firefighters didn't do anything for 2 hours.


----------



## westwall

boedicca said:


> This is so sad.  I have visited (and even attended Mass) at Notre Dame quite a few times.  It's such a beautiful place - quite a testament to human achievement and powerfully spiritual. Quite devastating to see it destroyed.







Yes, I'm not religious at all, but whenever I am in Paris (we have a flat a couple of hundred yards from Notre-Dame) I always attend a Latin Mass just to watch the pageantry.  This is a tremendous loss for mankind.


----------



## depotoo

A miracle.





rightwinger said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Chaplain of the fire brigade ran in and saved the Crown of Thorns and the Blessed Sacrament.
> The famous statue of Mary and Jesus appears undamaged-
> 
> View attachment 256157
> 
> View attachment 256155
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing that much remained intact
Click to expand...


----------



## ABikerSailor

According to a lot of news reports this morning, there was quite a bit of stuff that was able to be saved and moved to a safe location.  That was good news as far as I was concerned.


----------



## westwall

Faun said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
Click to expand...






So is global warming hysteria, but this thread is about Notre-Dame.  That was a magnificent building, with centuries of history.  History that is now lost.  Yes, it will be rebuilt, but it is forever changed.


----------



## aaronleland

WillowTree said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read they would not be able to restore it to it’s original state because France did not have the tall trees it had back in the 12th century.
Click to expand...


I say they import the wood from the Amazon rain forest. Those savages aren't using it.


----------



## WillowTree

aaronleland said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read they would not be able to restore it to it’s original state because France did not have the tall trees it had back in the 12th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I say they import the wood from the Amazon rain forest. Those savages aren't using it.
Click to expand...

Yes they are! They are making charcoal out of their trees so ewe can grill yer steaks!


----------



## Polishprince

WillowTree said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read they would not be able to restore it to it’s original state because France did not have the tall trees it had back in the 12th century.
Click to expand...



I am sure that they will be using modern materials instead of wood when the new Notre Dame is built.  

Macron said he wants it built in 5 years.   It took 182 years to build it the first time, using the original building materials.    

Something is going to have to give- the French can use steel and glass and space age polymors and finish it on time.

Or they use stone and wood and hope its done by the dawn of the 23rd Century.


----------



## aaronleland

WillowTree said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read they would not be able to restore it to it’s original state because France did not have the tall trees it had back in the 12th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I say they import the wood from the Amazon rain forest. Those savages aren't using it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes they are! They are making charcoal out of their trees so ewe can grill yer steaks!
Click to expand...


Maybe they do have one saving grace. Who grills with gas? Commies! That's who!


----------



## basquebromance

Cavuto Hangs Up On Bill Donohue After He Links Notre Dame Fire To Recent Paris Church Attacks


----------



## WillowTree

basquebromance said:


> Cavuto Hangs Up On Bill Donohue After He Links Notre Dame Fire To Recent Paris Church Attacks


I told ewe that yesterday!


----------



## basquebromance

Just ask Ilhan Omar... She knows who burned it down.


----------



## Coyote

Notre Dame Rose Windows Are Safe, Paris Officials Say

* Notre Dame Rose Windows Are Safe, Paris Officials Say *


----------



## pismoe

basquebromance said:


> Cavuto Hangs Up On Bill Donohue After He Links Notre Dame Fire To Recent Paris Church Attacks


---------------------------------------   aw haw haw , i love it , 'cavuto' is a 'dhimmi' same as 'shep smiff'' who did the same thing to another guest .  Thanks BBro !!


----------



## Dick Foster

aaronleland said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I read they would not be able to restore it to it’s original state because France did not have the tall trees it had back in the 12th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I say they import the wood from the Amazon rain forest. Those savages aren't using it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes they are! They are making charcoal out of their trees so ewe can grill yer steaks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe they do have one saving grace. Who grills with gas? Commies! That's who!
Click to expand...


I went to a pellet grill. I found it a lot easier than getting up in the middle of the night to add wood and charcoal for a long smoke. It does such a good job I use it for both grilling and smoking so I retired my Weber kettle although I still have it, just in case. It starts with electricity. All you have to do is fill the hopper with pellets, turn it on, set the temperature and that's it other than loading in the food you're cooking.


----------



## Coyote

What was lost, what was saved from the Notre Dame fire?


----------



## basquebromance

Notre Dame Cathedral Fire Conspiracy Theories Flourish After Investigators Say There’s No Proof of Terrorism


----------



## mdk

These statues were removed from the spire just days earlier for repair and cleaning. It’s doubtful they would have survived the blaze, but I am so happy they will once again adorn the cathedral in the future.


----------



## WillowTree

Coyote said:


> What was lost, what was saved from the Notre Dame fire?


Ask Bodecca, she has the facts and everyone else is lying.


----------



## ABikerSailor

mdk said:


> View attachment 256175
> 
> These statues were removed from the spire just days earlier for repair and cleaning. It’s doubtful they would have survived the blaze, but I am so happy they will once again adorn the cathedral in the future.



Nothing like fortunate timing, eh?


----------



## Dogmaphobe

mdk said:


> View attachment 256175
> 
> These statues were removed from the spire just days earlier for repair and cleaning. It’s doubtful they would have survived the blaze, but I am so happy they will once again adorn the cathedral in the future.


Who decapitated those poor statues?  

Hmmmmmm


----------



## WillowTree

Dogmaphobe said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 256175
> 
> These statues were removed from the spire just days earlier for repair and cleaning. It’s doubtful they would have survived the blaze, but I am so happy they will once again adorn the cathedral in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Who decapitated those poor statues?
> 
> Hmmmmmm
Click to expand...



Warning! Very Graphic Image of the last public execution by guillotine in France 1939


----------



## mdk

Dogmaphobe said:


> mdk said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 256175
> 
> These statues were removed from the spire just days earlier for repair and cleaning. It’s doubtful they would have survived the blaze, but I am so happy they will once again adorn the cathedral in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Who decapitated those poor statues?
> 
> Hmmmmmm
Click to expand...


St. Paul is used to it by now.


----------



## Coyote

WillowTree said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mdk said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 256175
> 
> These statues were removed from the spire just days earlier for repair and cleaning. It’s doubtful they would have survived the blaze, but I am so happy they will once again adorn the cathedral in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Who decapitated those poor statues?
> 
> Hmmmmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Warning! Very Graphic Image of the last public execution by guillotine in France 1939
Click to expand...



At least it's quicker than hanging or frying....


----------



## Death Angel

Coyote said:


> At least it's quicker than hanging or frying....


How do you know?


----------



## boedicca

Coyote said:


> Notre Dame Rose Windows Are Safe, Paris Officials Say
> 
> * Notre Dame Rose Windows Are Safe, Paris Officials Say *




This is inaccurate.   The South and West window were destroyed; the North one was damaged, but an be restored.  The trio of smaller ones were saved.


----------



## Natural Citizen

There's been quite a lot of church fires and church attacks recently. The media hasn't really been reporting on them and they've been shutting down any discussion about it. I think the reason is because they donlt want the public to be aware of the extent of the global trend and to be able to place it all into context and start asking tougher questions. 

And surprisingly the mainstream cable news entertainment programming platforms  n whole have been very hesitant to blame any groups, there's been a crackdown at FOX particularly since the recent PA Synagague. Then they also suspended Pirro immediately after her criticism of Omar.

Here, FOX News cuts off any discussion about them...Cavuto in the first one and Smith in the second one. Clearly they're running interference for the State Department, even if this particular incident has quickly been publicly abeled an accident. They're still investigating it, no doubt about it. With churches and synagogues under attack all over the world, you bet they are. That's  likely why the media is shutting down and avoiding any deeper discussion about it. And it's likely why they have been hesitant to blame ay specific groups with this one.


----------



## bodecea

ABikerSailor said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Careful how many times you say that.  Say it too many times, and some nutjobs on these boards will claim that the French set fire to it themselves to raise the money to refurbish it.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.....like the nutjob lie that it took two hours to start fighting the fire/that the firefighters let it burn.


----------



## Natural Citizen

Here's a question. Who is responsible for putting out fires if the Cathedral would have been under attack?


----------



## bodecea

Natural Citizen said:


> Here's a question. Who is responsible for puttng out fires if the Cathedral would have been attacked?


Apparently, not god....he's not powerful enough....or else he doesn't care enough.


----------



## WillowTree

bodecea said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> it had been badly neglected. Now the French will expect donations to rebuild it.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame’s destruction was ‘bound to happen’ after years of neglect and lack of keep up, expert claims
> 
> 
> The lack of real upkeep and daily attention to such a major building is the cause of this catastrophe,” Jean-Michel Leniaud, president of the scientific council at the national Heritage Institute told AFP. “This is not about looking for people to blame. The responsibility is collective because this is the most loved monument in the country.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally?  I think that the fire probably originated in an area that was undergoing renovation.  And, Notre Dame was currently undergoing renovations.
> 
> From the OP's link...........................
> 
> *The cathedral – immortalized in Victor Hugo’s 1831 novel “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – was undergoing a massive $6.8 million renovation project when the blaze broke out. It was an effort to turn back the clock on centuries of neglect of the beloved monument.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in a way the blaze was a blessing in disguise. $6.8 million, versus the over $700 million they've raised in a matter of hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Careful how many times you say that.  Say it too many times, and some nutjobs on these boards will claim that the French set fire to it themselves to raise the money to refurbish it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Totally agree.....like the nutjob lie that it took two hours to start fighting the fire/that the firefighters let it burn.
Click to expand...

We didn’t lie you dumbassed troll. We reported what was being reported on the news!


----------



## rightwinger

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is bullshit and I'm still waiting for a link saying no firefighting equipment was on site until 8 p.m.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh puhleeze.   Fire engines with sirens can maneuver through traffic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not gridlock in a major city
> 
> No place to pull over
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney.
Click to expand...

Never been in a city, have ya?


----------



## Natural Citizen

WillowTree said:


> We reported what was being reported on the news!



This is darned sig worthy right here, lolol.


----------



## boedicca

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched it live.  The cathedral burned for nearly two hours before any water was applied; and the reports were that first responders were standing around because they had not equipment on site.  The reports then discussed the congestion of rush hour traffic.  So, you can shove your opinion where it belongs.
> 
> Questions for Paris fire brigade as Notre Dame inferno burns out of control for hours | Daily Mail Online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gridlock and the isolation on an island blocked the fire trucks
> What would you have done?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh puhleeze.   Fire engines with sirens can maneuver through traffic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not gridlock in a major city
> 
> No place to pull over
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> B'loney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never been in a city, have ya?
Click to expand...



I've lived in cities my entire adult life, and have had to pull my car over to the side of the street IN RUSH HOUR TRAFFIC to let emergency vehicles pass.   Such things are quite common occurrences all over the world.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Faun said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Conservatives can't stop the hate
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, pointing out a cause of a failure is hate in Leftardia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not even a day and you are starting hate inspired conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only a liar can claim it was an accident before the fire is even out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fire was still burning and you are blaming Muslims
> What an ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Conservatism is a cult. They blame Muslims for many of the world's problems just like Nazi's blamed Jews. It's the same mindset that feels compelled to cast blame on their enemies.
Click to expand...

That’s a good one. Muslims are persecuted just like the Jews throughout history. Did you go to a university to learn such stupidity?


----------



## Dick Foster

I 


boedicca said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame Rose Windows Are Safe, Paris Officials Say
> 
> * Notre Dame Rose Windows Are Safe, Paris Officials Say *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is inaccurate.   The South and West window were destroyed; the North one was damaged, but an be restored.  The trio of smaller ones were saved.
Click to expand...

Think you may be wrong on that one. Pictures showing the interior after fire show the fire was in the center of the church and well away from all the big stained glass rose windows which are located out on the ends and we'll away from the center of the cross. The cathedral floorplan forms a cross when viewed from above. The steeple and the fire were dead center of the cross. Even the organ is OK.


----------



## rightwinger

So what is the verdict of USMB Conservatives after a devastating fire in an internationally admired landmark?

1. Must have been set by Muslims
2. The French are too inept to put out fires


----------



## Lastamender

rightwinger said:


> So what is the verdict of USMB Conservatives after a devastating fire in an internationally admired landmark?
> 
> 1. Must have been set by Muslims
> 2. The French are too inept to put out fires


Google it.


----------



## WillowTree

rightwinger said:


> So what is the verdict of USMB Conservatives after a devastating fire in an internationally admired landmark?
> 
> 1. Must have been set by Muslims
> 2. The French are too inept to put out fires


Ask Bodecca.


----------



## miketx

basquebromance said:


> C’est le symbole de notre France et notre histoire qui pars en fumée, c’est horrible ce qui arrive, un grand soutient aux pompiers et aux autres secouristes qui font de leur possible pour sauver une partie de notre patrimoine
> 
> the symbol of our france and our history is on fire. love to the firefighters who did everything possible to save our culture!


Everything except get there promptly.


----------



## rightwinger

Lastamender said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the verdict of USMB Conservatives after a devastating fire in an internationally admired landmark?
> 
> 1. Must have been set by Muslims
> 2. The French are too inept to put out fires
> 
> 
> 
> Google it.
Click to expand...


I did, some clown movie came up

Google


----------



## rightwinger

WillowTree said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the verdict of USMB Conservatives after a devastating fire in an internationally admired landmark?
> 
> 1. Must have been set by Muslims
> 2. The French are too inept to put out fires
> 
> 
> 
> Ask Bodecca.
Click to expand...

Ewe do it


----------



## Aletheia4u

*Notre Dame Fire: SHOCK CLAIM Nostradamus Predicted the Disaster*
*
*


----------



## beautress

pismoe said:


> WHO started the fire , did he have a BEARD and a wierd name ??


The report I read said the French police were looking into some careless thing due to renovations, but it was hours ago I read that, but I'm sure the French will leave no stone unturned when all is said and done. They did assert there was no evidence of intentional setting fire to the place by anyone else. We'll see.


----------



## beautress

Oh, and one other thing. My heart goes out to the French people on the brink of losing a symbol of France's past. When I was growing up, France was thought of as not only the fashion center of the world, but a country who encouraged art and innovation, medical cures of bad problems


Weatherman2020 said:


> beautress said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> WHO started the fire , did he have a BEARD and a wierd name ??
> 
> 
> 
> The report I read said the French police were looking into some careless thing due to renovations, but it was hours ago I read that, but I'm sure the French will leave no stone unturned when all is said and done. They did assert there was no evidence of intentional setting fire to the place by anonw else. We'll see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They declare it’s not arson before the investigation even started.
> 
> Kind of like when San Bernardino was not terrorism until it was.
Click to expand...

I saw some early enthusiasm about its site becoming a Muslim stronghold in another thread. It wouldn't be fitting to blame the wrong people before forensics evidence is even given a chance to come up with. If it is as police suspect, Joe Careless was working away at working away, with no motivation to decimate such a wonderful house of worship and an endearment to the local communities.  Best to let the sleuths find out what happened and pray for those whose life was changed by the good things that took place in that church--faith in goodness of mankind who is given the opportunity to find within himself what he wants to do with his life.


----------



## beautress

Prayers up for the faithful in France. Bone tired after a day at charity bees sewing effort. Finished a pink quilt for a sweet baby girl, and now I'm paying the price for working like I thought I was 20 again. lol  It's so early, too. Y'all play nice, now.


----------



## ABikerSailor

francoHFW said:


> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ON NOTRE DAME- FROM MAXIME LEPANTE A FRIEND IN PARIS *
> Posted By Ruth King on April 16th, 2019
> 
> Notre-Dame was one of the most important jewels of all human history. It started the “gothic” architecture revolution, that was, from 12th to 15th century called “francigenum opus” (“French art”) before being called “gothic” by the Italians. It’s the epitome of Western civilization and Christian art. The framing of the roof, which was one of the biggest masterpieces of human carpentry, is permanently destroyed. The stained glasses (biggest and most ancient rose windows in Europe) are probably saved.
> In 2016, 2 veiled Muslim women tried to detonate a car filled with explosives in front of Notre-Dame (Notre-Dame de Paris bombing attempt - Wikipedia).
> At the beginning of March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the Saint-Sulpice church (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> At mid-March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the organ of the Saint-Denis basilica (another jewel) and destroyed stained glass (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> On Twitter, thousands of Muslims are rejoycing and saying that they are happy that Notre-Dame was destroyed ! (Des réactions de joie suite à l'incendie de Notre-Dame (MàJ) - Fdesouche)
> And when our churches, our cathedrals, our cemetaries, our monuments, are destroyed by Muslim immigrants, Macron uses our policemen to protect… the mosques !!! (La surveillance des lieux de culte renforcée en France après l'attaque terroriste en Nouvelle-Zélande)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2019/04/16/on-notre-dame-from-maxime-lepante-a-friend-in-paris/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your post is basically garbage propaganda and the kind of innuendo that right wing propaganda uses to get people the wrong impression, in this case that Notre Dame was fired by Muslims.
> 
> The lack of damage at Notre Dame is basically a miracle. All they lost really was the roof, not even much of the ceiling. I suggest that use metal this time to hold up the roof.... Vive la France!
Click to expand...


They're gonna more than likely have to use metal.  Seems that there are no longer any trees big enough in France to rebuild it like it was.


----------



## OldLady

depotoo said:


> A miracle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Chaplain of the fire brigade ran in and saved the Crown of Thorns and the Blessed Sacrament.
> The famous statue of Mary and Jesus appears undamaged-
> 
> View attachment 256157
> 
> View attachment 256155
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing that much remained intact
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It was great work by the Paris fire department.  They risked their lives to go in there and remove irreplaceable items and to keep the fire from taking the entire structure.  Looking at some of the "after" pictures, it amazes me so much was saved.


----------



## OldLady

Natural Citizen said:


> There's been quite a lot of church fires and church attacks recently. The media hasn't really been reporting on them and they've been shutting down any discussion about it. I think the reason is because they donlt want the public to be aware of the extent of the global trend and to be able to place it all into context and start asking tougher questions.
> 
> And surprisingly the mainstream cable news entertainment programming platforms  n whole have been very hesitant to blame any groups, there's been a crackdown at FOX particularly since the recent PA Synagague. Then they also suspended Pirro immediately after her criticism of Omar.
> 
> Here, FOX News cuts off any discussion about them...Cavuto in the first one and Smith in the second one. Clearly they're running interference for the State Department, even if this particular incident has quickly been publicly abeled an accident. They're still investigating it, no doubt about it. With churches and synagogues under attack all over the world, you bet they are. That's  likely why the media is shutting down and avoiding any deeper discussion about it. And it's likely why they have been hesitant to blame ay specific groups with this one.


You don't think it is partly not to encourage copy cats?


----------



## Polishprince

Macron says he wants to rebuild Notre Dame in just 5 years, but it took Louis VII 182 years to build the joint in the first place.   I don't think his goal is realistic.

Further, at the time ND was built, Paris France was a Christian town. Now is mostly jihadi and atheist.  The Notre Dame property is owned by the French Government.

Should the replacement structure continue to embrace the sectarianism of Notre Dame, or should it  become more oecumenical in its mission?   Seems like Notre Dame as it was violated the wall of separation.


----------



## Desperado

The Same People did Something Again


----------



## rightwinger

ABikerSailor said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ON NOTRE DAME- FROM MAXIME LEPANTE A FRIEND IN PARIS *
> Posted By Ruth King on April 16th, 2019
> 
> Notre-Dame was one of the most important jewels of all human history. It started the “gothic” architecture revolution, that was, from 12th to 15th century called “francigenum opus” (“French art”) before being called “gothic” by the Italians. It’s the epitome of Western civilization and Christian art. The framing of the roof, which was one of the biggest masterpieces of human carpentry, is permanently destroyed. The stained glasses (biggest and most ancient rose windows in Europe) are probably saved.
> In 2016, 2 veiled Muslim women tried to detonate a car filled with explosives in front of Notre-Dame (Notre-Dame de Paris bombing attempt - Wikipedia).
> At the beginning of March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the Saint-Sulpice church (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> At mid-March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the organ of the Saint-Denis basilica (another jewel) and destroyed stained glass (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> On Twitter, thousands of Muslims are rejoycing and saying that they are happy that Notre-Dame was destroyed ! (Des réactions de joie suite à l'incendie de Notre-Dame (MàJ) - Fdesouche)
> And when our churches, our cathedrals, our cemetaries, our monuments, are destroyed by Muslim immigrants, Macron uses our policemen to protect… the mosques !!! (La surveillance des lieux de culte renforcée en France après l'attaque terroriste en Nouvelle-Zélande)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2019/04/16/on-notre-dame-from-maxime-lepante-a-friend-in-paris/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your post is basically garbage propaganda and the kind of innuendo that right wing propaganda uses to get people the wrong impression, in this case that Notre Dame was fired by Muslims.
> 
> The lack of damage at Notre Dame is basically a miracle. All they lost really was the roof, not even much of the ceiling. I suggest that use metal this time to hold up the roof.... Vive la France!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're gonna more than likely have to use metal.  Seems that there are no longer any trees big enough in France to rebuild it like it was.
Click to expand...

Makes no sense to use wood just because they didn’t have steel 700 years ago


----------



## Polishprince

rightwinger said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ON NOTRE DAME- FROM MAXIME LEPANTE A FRIEND IN PARIS *
> Posted By Ruth King on April 16th, 2019
> 
> Notre-Dame was one of the most important jewels of all human history. It started the “gothic” architecture revolution, that was, from 12th to 15th century called “francigenum opus” (“French art”) before being called “gothic” by the Italians. It’s the epitome of Western civilization and Christian art. The framing of the roof, which was one of the biggest masterpieces of human carpentry, is permanently destroyed. The stained glasses (biggest and most ancient rose windows in Europe) are probably saved.
> In 2016, 2 veiled Muslim women tried to detonate a car filled with explosives in front of Notre-Dame (Notre-Dame de Paris bombing attempt - Wikipedia).
> At the beginning of March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the Saint-Sulpice church (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> At mid-March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the organ of the Saint-Denis basilica (another jewel) and destroyed stained glass (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> On Twitter, thousands of Muslims are rejoycing and saying that they are happy that Notre-Dame was destroyed ! (Des réactions de joie suite à l'incendie de Notre-Dame (MàJ) - Fdesouche)
> And when our churches, our cathedrals, our cemetaries, our monuments, are destroyed by Muslim immigrants, Macron uses our policemen to protect… the mosques !!! (La surveillance des lieux de culte renforcée en France après l'attaque terroriste en Nouvelle-Zélande)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2019/04/16/on-notre-dame-from-maxime-lepante-a-friend-in-paris/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your post is basically garbage propaganda and the kind of innuendo that right wing propaganda uses to get people the wrong impression, in this case that Notre Dame was fired by Muslims.
> 
> The lack of damage at Notre Dame is basically a miracle. All they lost really was the roof, not even much of the ceiling. I suggest that use metal this time to hold up the roof.... Vive la France!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're gonna more than likely have to use metal.  Seems that there are no longer any trees big enough in France to rebuild it like it was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Makes no sense to use wood just because they didn’t have steel 700 years ago
Click to expand...




We've had steel since antiquity, RW.  They just customarily didn't use it for construction when Notre Dame was initially built.


----------



## Polishprince

rightwinger said:


> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huge black market in guns in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yet they have only a few hundred gun homicides a year compared to the tens of thousands we have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We only have "tens of" thousands if you factor in suicides as well. Also, Europe doesn't have such a large african minority group to worry about. They're well on their way. They'll learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Suicide is still dead
Click to expand...


So?

If someone wants to off themselves, and they don't have a firearm available, jumping off tall buildings, slashing one's wrist or immolating oneself are still available.

Including the number of gun suicides as gun deaths doesn't mean shit as those people are still dead whether they eat a bullet or commit hari-kari.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Weatherman2020 said:


> . Did you go to a university to learn such stupidity?




First things first, my friend.

He needs to finish middle school first, then high school and THEN college.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

This thread is not about guns


----------



## Mindful

Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now


----------



## depotoo

It is now being reported the first fire truck arrived 30 minutes after the first report, and the second, the  crane truck, arrived an hour after that.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Mindful said:


> Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now




And the source is patently obvious, yet people fear to name it.


----------



## depotoo

Officials dispute an arsonist being seen, as rumors fly, of man in yellow vest.  They state it was a fire official checking on the firemen and the job they were doing.


----------



## WillowTree

depotoo said:


> It is now being reported the first fire truck arrived 30 minutes after the first report, and the second, the  crane truck, arrived an hour after that.


Be careful, someone will jump up and call you a liar!


----------



## Coyote

Ubfi


Natural Citizen said:


> There's been quite a lot of church fires and church attacks recently. The media hasn't really been reporting on them and they've been shutting down any discussion about it. I think the reason is because they donlt want the public to be aware of the extent of the global trend and to be able to place it all into context and start asking tougher questions.
> 
> And surprisingly the mainstream cable news entertainment programming platforms  n whole have been very hesitant to blame any groups, there's been a crackdown at FOX particularly since the recent PA Synagague. Then they also suspended Pirro immediately after her criticism of Omar.
> 
> Here, FOX News cuts off any discussion about them...Cavuto in the first one and Smith in the second one. Clearly they're running interference for the State Department, even if this particular incident has quickly been publicly abeled an accident. They're still investigating it, no doubt about it. With churches and synagogues under attack all over the world, you bet they are. That's  likely why the media is shutting down and avoiding any deeper discussion about it. And it's likely why they have been hesitant to blame ay specific groups with this one.


Mosques have been under attack as well as churches and synagogues.


----------



## boedicca

This is lovely.


----------



## Natural Citizen

Coyote said:


> Mosques have been under attack as well as churches and synagogues.




Yeah. I mentioned the synagogues, I purposefully left out the mosques, there's already a couple threads around here talkin about hey lets go kill us some em r fukin muslims. lol. Gosh. Ya know?

But, yeah, that's certainly significant.


----------



## ABikerSailor

You know, the firefighters were surprised to see how much had survived.  One of the more surprising finds was that the organ was pretty much still whole, just a bit of smoke damage. 

And, the fire fighters said that if there had been an air drop of water on the building, it would have collapsed the whole structure.  There were people inside pulling stuff out and trying to put out the flames.  If water had been air dropped, the church would have been damage even worse than it was.

Still think Trump was smart to suggest air dropping water to put out the fire?


----------



## WillowTree

ABikerSailor said:


> You know, the firefighters were surprised to see how much had survived.  One of the more surprising finds was that the organ was pretty much still whole, just a bit of smoke damage.
> 
> And, the fire fighters said that if there had been an air drop of water on the building, it would have collapsed the whole structure.  There were people inside pulling stuff out and trying to put out the flames.  If water had been air dropped, the church would have been damage even worse than it was.
> 
> Still think Trump was smart to suggest air dropping water to put out the fire?


I think he was trying to help and as always you bitches take an opportunity to slam him.


----------



## ABikerSailor

WillowTree said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the firefighters were surprised to see how much had survived.  One of the more surprising finds was that the organ was pretty much still whole, just a bit of smoke damage.
> 
> And, the fire fighters said that if there had been an air drop of water on the building, it would have collapsed the whole structure.  There were people inside pulling stuff out and trying to put out the flames.  If water had been air dropped, the church would have been damage even worse than it was.
> 
> Still think Trump was smart to suggest air dropping water to put out the fire?
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was trying to help and as always you bitches take an opportunity to slam him.
Click to expand...


Trying to help by throwing out stupid suggestions isn't help at all.


----------



## WillowTree

ABikerSailor said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the firefighters were surprised to see how much had survived.  One of the more surprising finds was that the organ was pretty much still whole, just a bit of smoke damage.
> 
> And, the fire fighters said that if there had been an air drop of water on the building, it would have collapsed the whole structure.  There were people inside pulling stuff out and trying to put out the flames.  If water had been air dropped, the church would have been damage even worse than it was.
> 
> Still think Trump was smart to suggest air dropping water to put out the fire?
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was trying to help and as always you bitches take an opportunity to slam him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trying to help by throwing out stupid suggestions isn't help at all.
Click to expand...

Just any old reason to bash him jerk!


----------



## rightwinger

Polishprince said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ON NOTRE DAME- FROM MAXIME LEPANTE A FRIEND IN PARIS *
> Posted By Ruth King on April 16th, 2019
> 
> Notre-Dame was one of the most important jewels of all human history. It started the “gothic” architecture revolution, that was, from 12th to 15th century called “francigenum opus” (“French art”) before being called “gothic” by the Italians. It’s the epitome of Western civilization and Christian art. The framing of the roof, which was one of the biggest masterpieces of human carpentry, is permanently destroyed. The stained glasses (biggest and most ancient rose windows in Europe) are probably saved.
> In 2016, 2 veiled Muslim women tried to detonate a car filled with explosives in front of Notre-Dame (Notre-Dame de Paris bombing attempt - Wikipedia).
> At the beginning of March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the Saint-Sulpice church (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> At mid-March, an illegal Muslim immigrant tried to burn down the organ of the Saint-Denis basilica (another jewel) and destroyed stained glass (http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/p...n-etait-pas-accidentel-18-03-2019-8034678.php).
> On Twitter, thousands of Muslims are rejoycing and saying that they are happy that Notre-Dame was destroyed ! (Des réactions de joie suite à l'incendie de Notre-Dame (MàJ) - Fdesouche)
> And when our churches, our cathedrals, our cemetaries, our monuments, are destroyed by Muslim immigrants, Macron uses our policemen to protect… the mosques !!! (La surveillance des lieux de culte renforcée en France après l'attaque terroriste en Nouvelle-Zélande)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2019/04/16/on-notre-dame-from-maxime-lepante-a-friend-in-paris/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your post is basically garbage propaganda and the kind of innuendo that right wing propaganda uses to get people the wrong impression, in this case that Notre Dame was fired by Muslims.
> 
> The lack of damage at Notre Dame is basically a miracle. All they lost really was the roof, not even much of the ceiling. I suggest that use metal this time to hold up the roof.... Vive la France!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're gonna more than likely have to use metal.  Seems that there are no longer any trees big enough in France to rebuild it like it was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Makes no sense to use wood just because they didn’t have steel 700 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've had steel since antiquity, RW.  They just customarily didn't use it for construction when Notre Dame was initially built.
Click to expand...


Thank Andrew Carnegie


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## skye

Mindful said:


> Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now




875 churches  to be more exact.....











Notre-Dame Cathedral Fire Not Arson But 875 French Churches Vandalized In 2018


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## francoHFW

skye said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 875 churches  to be more exact.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notre-Dame Cathedral Fire Not Arson But 875 French Churches Vandalized In 2018
Click to expand...

in the United States we had three black churches burned down,  feces and graffiti is something different we had thousands of those. Thanks right-wingers and Nazis.



Notre Dame is the most beautiful Gothic cathedral in the world and the first amazingly... And considering the way the fire looked, it was very lucky miraculous one might say. Most beautiful light thin flying buttresses ever. I'm surprised they didn't force the walls in once the weight of the roof was gone....


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## Polishprince

rightwinger said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lastamender said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2019/04/16/on-notre-dame-from-maxime-lepante-a-friend-in-paris/
> 
> 
> 
> Your post is basically garbage propaganda and the kind of innuendo that right wing propaganda uses to get people the wrong impression, in this case that Notre Dame was fired by Muslims.
> 
> The lack of damage at Notre Dame is basically a miracle. All they lost really was the roof, not even much of the ceiling. I suggest that use metal this time to hold up the roof.... Vive la France!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They're gonna more than likely have to use metal.  Seems that there are no longer any trees big enough in France to rebuild it like it was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Makes no sense to use wood just because they didn’t have steel 700 years ago
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've had steel since antiquity, RW.  They just customarily didn't use it for construction when Notre Dame was initially built.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank Andrew Carnegie
Click to expand...



Bigger thanks really go to Carnegie's partner, Henry Clay Frick.  Frick's willingness to speak Truth to Power and his defeat of Big Labor in Homestead allowed structural steel to be produced at a price where it became preferable to masonry construction.

Getting rid of Big Labor allowed new innovations to manufacture steel in the quantities needed for construction.


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## Mindful

francoHFW said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 875 churches  to be more exact.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notre-Dame Cathedral Fire Not Arson But 875 French Churches Vandalized In 2018
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in the United States we had three black churches burned down,  feces and graffiti is something different we had thousands of those. Thanks right-wingers and Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame is the most beautiful Gothic cathedral in the world and the first amazingly... And considering the way the fire looked, it was very lucky miraculous one might say. Most beautiful light thin flying buttresses ever. I'm surprised they didn't force the walls in once the weight of the roof was gone....
Click to expand...


For some impressive Gothic, the German cathedrals are worth a visit. In particular, Cologne, which suffered considerable  bomb damage during WW2.

Regarding restoration.

*HASN’T NOTRE DAME SUFFERED ENOUGH?*

France is to invite architects from around the world to submit their designs for a new spire to sit atop a renovated Notre-Dame cathedral.

Prime Minister Edouard Philippe told reporters they hoped for “a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era”.

The heart sinks. Can you imagine the modernist monstrosity which will rise on the Île de la Cité? Some funky architect with PR skills and no sense of space, history or respect will probably put a rocket ship up there. The French won’t mind. For all their bluster this week about the loss, they’re modernist vandals at heart. Any bunch who can defile the glorious Louvre Palace courtyard with a glass pyramid is capable of anything. A sensible people would _restore_ the Gothic grace and architecture. But we’re not talking sensible people here. These are politicians and bureaucrats. They’re the most dangerous people. They want to be known for something.

Posted in ATW


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## francoHFW

Mindful said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 875 churches  to be more exact.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notre-Dame Cathedral Fire Not Arson But 875 French Churches Vandalized In 2018
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in the United States we had three black churches burned down,  feces and graffiti is something different we had thousands of those. Thanks right-wingers and Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame is the most beautiful Gothic cathedral in the world and the first amazingly... And considering the way the fire looked, it was very lucky miraculous one might say. Most beautiful light thin flying buttresses ever. I'm surprised they didn't force the walls in once the weight of the roof was gone....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For some impressive Gothic, the German cathedrals are worth a visit. In particular, Cologne, which suffered considerable  bomb damage during WW2.
> 
> Regarding restoration.
> 
> *HASN’T NOTRE DAME SUFFERED ENOUGH?*
> 
> France is to invite architects from around the world to submit their designs for a new spire to sit atop a renovated Notre-Dame cathedral.
> 
> Prime Minister Edouard Philippe told reporters they hoped for “a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era”.
> 
> The heart sinks. Can you imagine the modernist monstrosity which will rise on the Île de la Cité? Some funky architect with PR skills and no sense of space, history or respect will probably put a rocket ship up there. The French won’t mind. For all their bluster this week about the loss, they’re modernist vandals at heart. Any bunch who can defile the glorious Louvre Palace courtyard with a glass pyramid is capable of anything. A sensible people would _restore_ the Gothic grace and architecture. But we’re not talking sensible people here. These are politicians and bureaucrats. They’re the most dangerous people. They want to be known for something.
> 
> Posted in ATW
Click to expand...

Cologne is amazing but I believe was built over the course of 700 years lol. Those spires are amazing if you stand as close as you can and look up at them, they appear to be columns that reach infinity LOL. I don't mind the glass pyramid so much, they needed it or something to organize all the tourists...I think they should use metal to rebuild the roof and perhaps the spire, which may have been a bit of a nineteenth-century overreach.... But there will certainly be enough people watching what they do LOL...


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## Mindful

francoHFW said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 875 churches  to be more exact.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notre-Dame Cathedral Fire Not Arson But 875 French Churches Vandalized In 2018
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in the United States we had three black churches burned down,  feces and graffiti is something different we had thousands of those. Thanks right-wingers and Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame is the most beautiful Gothic cathedral in the world and the first amazingly... And considering the way the fire looked, it was very lucky miraculous one might say. Most beautiful light thin flying buttresses ever. I'm surprised they didn't force the walls in once the weight of the roof was gone....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For some impressive Gothic, the German cathedrals are worth a visit. In particular, Cologne, which suffered considerable  bomb damage during WW2.
> 
> Regarding restoration.
> 
> *HASN’T NOTRE DAME SUFFERED ENOUGH?*
> 
> France is to invite architects from around the world to submit their designs for a new spire to sit atop a renovated Notre-Dame cathedral.
> 
> Prime Minister Edouard Philippe told reporters they hoped for “a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era”.
> 
> The heart sinks. Can you imagine the modernist monstrosity which will rise on the Île de la Cité? Some funky architect with PR skills and no sense of space, history or respect will probably put a rocket ship up there. The French won’t mind. For all their bluster this week about the loss, they’re modernist vandals at heart. Any bunch who can defile the glorious Louvre Palace courtyard with a glass pyramid is capable of anything. A sensible people would _restore_ the Gothic grace and architecture. But we’re not talking sensible people here. These are politicians and bureaucrats. They’re the most dangerous people. They want to be known for something.
> 
> Posted in ATW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cologne is amazing but I believe was built over the course of 700 years lol. Those spires are amazing if you stand as close as you can and look up at them, they appear to be columns that reach infinity LOL. I don't mind the glass pyramid so much, they needed it or something to organize all the tourists...I think they should use metal to rebuild the roof and perhaps the spire, which may have been a bit of a nineteenth-century overreach.... But there will certainly be enough people watching what they do LOL...
Click to expand...


The roof of the Cologne Cathedral  is made of IRON. In 1860 the masterbuilder threw traditional wood out the window, and made the Cathedral roof the 2nd largest Iron Structure in the world. It's pretty safe from fire.


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## Polishprince

Mindful said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether or not Notre Dame's fire was an accident, there is an awful lot of Church destruction going on in Europe right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 875 churches  to be more exact.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notre-Dame Cathedral Fire Not Arson But 875 French Churches Vandalized In 2018
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in the United States we had three black churches burned down,  feces and graffiti is something different we had thousands of those. Thanks right-wingers and Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> Notre Dame is the most beautiful Gothic cathedral in the world and the first amazingly... And considering the way the fire looked, it was very lucky miraculous one might say. Most beautiful light thin flying buttresses ever. I'm surprised they didn't force the walls in once the weight of the roof was gone....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For some impressive Gothic, the German cathedrals are worth a visit. In particular, Cologne, which suffered considerable  bomb damage during WW2.
> 
> Regarding restoration.
> 
> *HASN’T NOTRE DAME SUFFERED ENOUGH?*
> 
> France is to invite architects from around the world to submit their designs for a new spire to sit atop a renovated Notre-Dame cathedral.
> 
> Prime Minister Edouard Philippe told reporters they hoped for “a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era”.
> 
> The heart sinks. Can you imagine the modernist monstrosity which will rise on the Île de la Cité? Some funky architect with PR skills and no sense of space, history or respect will probably put a rocket ship up there. The French won’t mind. For all their bluster this week about the loss, they’re modernist vandals at heart. Any bunch who can defile the glorious Louvre Palace courtyard with a glass pyramid is capable of anything. A sensible people would _restore_ the Gothic grace and architecture. But we’re not talking sensible people here. These are politicians and bureaucrats. They’re the most dangerous people. They want to be known for something.
> 
> Posted in ATW
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cologne is amazing but I believe was built over the course of 700 years lol. Those spires are amazing if you stand as close as you can and look up at them, they appear to be columns that reach infinity LOL. I don't mind the glass pyramid so much, they needed it or something to organize all the tourists...I think they should use metal to rebuild the roof and perhaps the spire, which may have been a bit of a nineteenth-century overreach.... But there will certainly be enough people watching what they do LOL...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The roof of the Cologne Cathedral  is made of IRON. In 1860 the masterbuilder threw traditional wood out the window, and made the Cathedral roof the 2nd largest Iron Structure in the world. It's pretty safe from fire.
Click to expand...



The Cologne Cathedral should be fortunate that it had the iron roof.  The traditional wood might not have let the building survive WWII when it took several attacks


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## francoHFW

Amazing photos of Cologne cathedral surrounded by total ruin... See also saint Paul's in London....
The Cologne Cathedral stands tall amidst the ruins of the city after Allied bombings, 1944


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## boedicca

francoHFW said:


> Amazing photos of Cologne cathedral surrounded by total ruin... See also saint Paul's in London....
> The Cologne Cathedral stands tall amidst the ruins of the city after Allied bombings, 1944




Wow - that is an incredible photo.


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## francoHFW

To the left is the railroad station... We walked over to the cathedral and looked up and then joined carnival. I only remember they had schnapps to go with the beer, and the wonderful bumper cars that you could stay in forever if you bought enough chips to stick in the coin slot on the car. I had schnapps on the rocks with my beer for years after, then anisette and sambuca, and Anis dulce in Fuengirola...


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## Mindful

francoHFW said:


> To the left is the railroad station... We walked over to the cathedral and looked up and then joined carnival. I only remember they had schnapps to go with the beer, and the wonderful bumper cars that you could stay in forever if you bought enough chips to stick in the coin slot on the car. I had schnapps on the rocks with my beer for years after, then anisette and sambuca, and Anis dulce in Fuengirola...



I've been to Fuengirola. You're walking  in my footsteps.


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## francoHFW

francoHFW said:


> To the left is the railroad station... We walked over to the cathedral and looked up and then joined carnival. I only remember they had schnapps to go with the beer, and the wonderful bumper cars that you could stay in forever if you bought enough chips to stick in the coin slot on the car. I had schnapps on the rocks with my beer for years after, then anisette and sambuca, and Anis dulce in Fuengirola...


Perhaps my favorite place to smoke pot or hashish is across the river from Notre Dame, between bouquiniste or bookseller stalls, between bouts at Polly Magoo's on rue saint Jacques or the cafes at the bottom of boulevard Saint-Michel.... Those flying buttresses are what get me. And it still looks just as good, the roof was not the attraction....


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## xyz

gallantwarrior said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO IS BLAMING TRUMP?  He is a POS...but no arsonist...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's an internationally renown fire fighting expert.
> View attachment 256026
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you find any suggestion offensive?  Oh, wait, President Trump made that suggestion so it must be condemned.
Click to expand...

Offensive? No.

Stupid? Yes. They even put out a statement later that using aircraft to put out the fire could do a lot more damage to the cathedral.


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## francoHFW

Mindful said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the left is the railroad station... We walked over to the cathedral and looked up and then joined carnival. I only remember they had schnapps to go with the beer, and the wonderful bumper cars that you could stay in forever if you bought enough chips to stick in the coin slot on the car. I had schnapps on the rocks with my beer for years after, then anisette and sambuca, and Anis dulce in Fuengirola...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Fuengirola. You're walking  in my footsteps.
Click to expand...

I was first there in 1964. My wonderful crazy aunt Margot built bar Casa Blanca and was partners with Lew hoad the tennis player on his tennis club. My father the doctor got involved when they ran out of money lol. Unfortunately she was killed in a car crash in 1971. I wanted that bar and in 1976 her boyfriend promised he would die within a year and had three letters from doctors backing him up. He lasted 15 more years and by that time the EU had ruined me. I was there for a year trying to find an EU citizen to marry but ended up selling it... when she built it it was the tallest building in town basically. The population was 1500 and it was basically a fishing village LOL. by the time I got back it was 50,000 and had 1000 bars.


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## Mindful

francoHFW said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the left is the railroad station... We walked over to the cathedral and looked up and then joined carnival. I only remember they had schnapps to go with the beer, and the wonderful bumper cars that you could stay in forever if you bought enough chips to stick in the coin slot on the car. I had schnapps on the rocks with my beer for years after, then anisette and sambuca, and Anis dulce in Fuengirola...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Fuengirola. You're walking  in my footsteps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was first there in 1964. My wonderful crazy aunt Margot built bar Casa Blanca and was partners with Lew hoad the tennis player on his tennis club. My father the doctor got involved when they ran out of money lol. Unfortunately she was killed in a car crash in 1971. I wanted that bar and in 1976 her boyfriend promised he would die within a year and had three letters from doctors backing him up. He lasted 15 more years and by that time the EU had ruined me. I was there for a year trying to find an EU citizen to marry but ended up selling it... when she built it it was the tallest building in town basically. The population was 1500 and it was basically a fishing village LOL. by the time I got back it was 50,000 and had 1000 bars.
Click to expand...


Nice harbour, and a lot of crooks selling timeshares.

I did manage a day trip to the Alhambra, and a visit to  Tangiers by ferry.


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## francoHFW

xyz said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> Award to first loony liberal who blames disastrous Notre Dame fire on Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHO IS BLAMING TRUMP?  He is a POS...but no arsonist...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's an internationally renown fire fighting expert.
> View attachment 256026
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you find any suggestion offensive?  Oh, wait, President Trump made that suggestion so it must be condemned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Offensive? No.
> 
> Stupid? Yes. They even put out a statement later that using aircraft to put out the fire could do a lot more damage to the cathedral.
Click to expand...

Add that was the only statement they put out in English. Got to love the Big Orange boob LOL...


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## francoHFW

Mindful said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the left is the railroad station... We walked over to the cathedral and looked up and then joined carnival. I only remember they had schnapps to go with the beer, and the wonderful bumper cars that you could stay in forever if you bought enough chips to stick in the coin slot on the car. I had schnapps on the rocks with my beer for years after, then anisette and sambuca, and Anis dulce in Fuengirola...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Fuengirola. You're walking  in my footsteps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was first there in 1964. My wonderful crazy aunt Margot built bar Casa Blanca and was partners with Lew hoad the tennis player on his tennis club. My father the doctor got involved when they ran out of money lol. Unfortunately she was killed in a car crash in 1971. I wanted that bar and in 1976 her boyfriend promised he would die within a year and had three letters from doctors backing him up. He lasted 15 more years and by that time the EU had ruined me. I was there for a year trying to find an EU citizen to marry but ended up selling it... when she built it it was the tallest building in town basically. The population was 1500 and it was basically a fishing village LOL. by the time I got back it was 50,000 and had 1000 bars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice harbour, and a lot of crooks selling timeshares.
> 
> I did manage a day trip to the Alhambra, and a visit to  Tangiers by ferry.
Click to expand...

Me too back in the 60s... We stayed at the old Alhambra Please Hotel. There was some really dumb Americans there who thought it was the palace  itself LOL. One guy was trying to send a telegram back home toto te people how great the palace was lol. His name was Don so that really confused people LOL... At any rate it is a lot less scary than it used to be under generalissimo Francisco Franco. If you had an accident with a pedestrian you were gone, and there were cops every three hundred yards with submachine machine guns. I got two tickets 4 silly traffic mistakes and both times I just paid the cops. And we were a lot better off than the Spanish! 6 years and a day in prison for a marijuana seed.... Sort of like Texas.


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## JimH52

Sorry CONSPIRACY NUTS!

The Latest: Short-circuit 'likely caused' Notre Dame fire


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## Polishprince

JimH52 said:


> Sorry CONSPIRACY NUTS!
> 
> The Latest: Short-circuit 'likely caused' Notre Dame fire





Investigators "think"??   LOL, Jim

Maybe they are keeping their real thoughts to themselves, because they got a beat on the arsonist and want him to relax?

To me, it just looks like Islamonazi terror.


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## skye

For another perspective on the  Notre-Dame fire,  I always  like to listen to all sides of a story, not only one. That way I can draw  my own conclusions.

*Steve R. Pieczenik*  was  born Havana, (December 7, 1943) is an American writer, former United States Department of State official, psychiatrist, and publisher.


 Apr 17, 2019


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## toobfreak

JimH52 said:


> Sorry CONSPIRACY NUTS!
> The Latest: Short-circuit 'likely caused' Notre Dame fire




YEP.  Heard that story in the news too.  Now, since my principle background is in electrical and electronic engineering, let me just say that if I wanted to burn down Notre Dame and make it LOOK like an accident, there would be no easier or more logical way than to create a short in the wiring inducing electrical overload and fire.

*NOW THE FIRST QUESTION* is that any reasonable circuit should preclude such an incident through the use of circuit breakers, but then, a circuit breaker is the easiest thing to also bypass.  Why didn't the breakers prevent the fire?

*THE SECOND QUESTION* would be as to the design of the wiring to meet code should preclude contact with combustible materials such as being in metal conduit, BX cabling, wire mold, etc.

*THE THIRD QUESTION* is that considering the incident only took place a few days ago, it seems unlikely in a tower that large and badly damaged that they could have reached a conclusion this fast not only to the absolute cause but to also rule out tampering. And if they have, then, WHERE IS THE DETAILED ANALYSIS AND REPORT?


----------

