# Armed Teachers...



## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.

I believe we should.

I'm not advocating that _every _teacher be armed. The last thing I would want to have is someone who, for whatever reason, either cannot or will not use a gun properly. If a teacher doesn't want to be armed, I can respect that. What I can't respect, though, is when those who choose to be unarmed want to insist that others should not be allowed to be armed.

Opponents of this idea are quick to say that it's a bad idea, yet, thus far, every single one has failed to offer a valid reason as to why it would be a bad idea. Apparently, opponents are of the belief that a teacher can't be properly trained in the use of a firearm, or in the use of deadly force. I reject that idea. Once upon a time, every single person who is a cop today did not know how use a firearm. They _learned _how to use a firearm. If a teacher is smart enough to teach, doesn't it fit that the teacher should be smart enough to learn, too?

Let those who wish to be armed be armed, and those who don't wish to be armed can remain unarmed.

Often mentioned is the idea of "crossfire". Let's discuss that for a minute, because it's really an invalid concern.

In order for crossfire to occur, a minimum of two people need to be shooting at the same target, which is between them. Now, I'm not entirely sure why, but opponents seem to believe that once law enforcement shows up, an armed teacher will still be blasting away. That's simply not the case. A simple doctrine would be that the teacher secures his or her weapon when police arrive. That way there's no chance that the teacher is misidentified as the active shooter, and the teacher can get to the task of comforting students instead of protecting them.

Opponents will also often say that the teachers aren't police officers, and that police officers should be allowed to do their jobs. Well, that sounds nice, doesn't it? Unfortunately, at Robb Elementary, the police were on hand yet they failed to do their job for 78 minutes. That means, for well over an hour, Salvador Ramos was able to kill. The police made a bad call and it resulted in 21 deaths. Could an armed teacher have stopped Ramos? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know. What we _do _know is that the police didn't. Isn't having a _slight _chance at stopping an active shooter better than having _no _chance to stop an active shooter?

Or how about Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida? That's another example of police being on the scene but failing to do their jobs. As a result, 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was able to walk through the school, killing people along the way, simply because there was no one to challenge him, and no one to stop him.

In 2001 my daughter was a freshman at Santana High School in Santee, California. Her classmate, Andy Williams, shot 15 people, killing two of them. A 23 year old security officer, Peter Ruiz, was shot three times in the back as he was going for help. Peter is still a dear friend to this day. He doesn't mince words when he speaks of the incident. He told me once "Steve, if I had a gun I could've stopped him."

And not that it was a school shooting, but it shows how an ordinary person with a gun can have an impact: In December of 2012 I was living in Portland, Oregon and was in a store not far from the food court at Clackamas Town Center when 22 year old Jacob Roberts entered the shopping mall and started shooting. A shopper in the food court, who was legally carrying a concealed weapon (a Glock), drew his weapon and aimed it at Roberts. Roberts saw the man, ran into a stairwell, and blew his brains out.

You don't have to be a police officer to stop a shooter...


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## Moonglow (Jun 3, 2022)

Arm the teachers, disarm the cops.


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## Darkwind (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.
> 
> I believe we should.
> 
> ...


I think that arming teachers is a bad idea.  However; if a teacher is properly trained and willing, I don't have a problem with it.

In My opinion, we need to harden our schools, in much the same way we harden all the other things we value in this society.  Banks, Political Power, Courthouses, Airports.

After all, it is a matter of prioritizing the things we value the most.   

IF that isn't our children, then God help us.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.
> 
> I believe we should.
> 
> ...


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> I think that arming teachers is a bad idea.  However; if a teacher is properly trained and willing, I don't have a problem with it.



And that would be absolutely mandatory, with no exceptions...



Darkwind said:


> In My opinion, we need to harden our schools, in much the same way we harden all the other things we value in this society.  Banks, Political Power, Courthouses, Airports.



Unfortunately it's coming down to that.

My high school, on Long Island, was wide the fuck open all day long. But we also didn't have these first person shooter games that give kids some odd sense of glory when they win. While I would come short of blaming them, I do think that a certain mindset can be adversely affected by playing those games.

I'd like to see a study of mass shooters, and see if they played those types of games. I'm only about a month away from 60, so I can't relate to those. Our play time included being outside with our friends almost all the time...



Darkwind said:


> After all, it is a matter of prioritizing the things we value the most.
> 
> IF that isn't our children, then God help us.



No argument there...


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> View attachment 653611



Well, we know that being unarmed doesn't work. If you have any doubt about that you can ask Irma Garcia's children.

But I have a question for you: If your child were in a classroom when a shooter entered the room, would you prefer your child's teacher be in a position to protect your child, or would you prefer that the shooter murder your child?

Because that's what happened to Irma Garcia and her students...


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## Darkwind (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> And that would be absolutely mandatory, with no exceptions...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm of the same age as you, 61; and you bring up an interesting thing I hadn't thought about in a very long time.

When I was in school when we were permitted to put down the clay tablets and go outside to play, the school was enclosed in a fence so that we could not go out (a blessing to the local neighborhood, to be sure) but that nothing could enter except through approved entry points.

Then I remember we went to 'open campus' everywhere sometime in the mid-70s.  

Maybe we need to return to that kind of model.


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## Moonglow (Jun 3, 2022)

You do know you will have to pay the teachers more to work armed?


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## Hellbilly (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Well, we know that being unarmed doesn't work. If you have any doubt about that you can ask Irma Garcia's children.
> 
> But I have a question for you: If your child were in a classroom when a shooter entered the room, would you prefer your child's teacher be in a position to protect your child, or would you prefer that the shooter murder your child?
> 
> Because that's what happened to Irma Garcia and her students...


I would prefer the school hire armed security. Its not the teachers job.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> You do know you will have to pay the teachers more to work armed?



Maybe, maybe not.

My former sister in law is a middle school teacher, and she carries a concealed weapon. She doesn't get paid more because of that.

That said, if it means paying them more, I would be completely okay with that...


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I would prefer the school hire armed security. Its not the teachers job.



Why are you afraid to answer my question?


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## White 6 (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> View attachment 653611


Some maybe, but not others, whether they would want to or not.  Who would make the decision?  I saw some unusual teachers on occasion, even way back in my school days.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Why are you afraid to answer my question?


I’m not afraid. It’s a dumb question. No one wants their child murdered. If the government is not going to do anything to get guns out of the hands of these people, they should have armed security in every school.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> Teachers are not your God damn sacrificial lambs so that you can keep your AR-15.
> They are there to teach and educate children — not fucking storm Normandy.


We're keeping our AR-15s whether you like it or not.

You can have "armed teachers and live schoolchildren" or "unarmed teachers and dead schoolchildren".

I really don't care which you choose.  But if you choose poorly, don't bother whining at me for sympathy.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> View attachment 653611


So you'd rather see dead children than see one qualified person in each school armed.  

You really *ARE* a leftist ghoul.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I’m not afraid. It’s a dumb question. No one wants their child murdered. If the government is not going to do anything to get guns out of the hands of these people, they should have armed security in every school.



Well, the reality is that they don't. But, if they did, how many security personnel would be sufficient? One? A dozen? My high school had a total of 74 teachers. Imagine having 74 people determined to protect your child.

And of course no one wants their child to be murdered. But if the only thing that's going to prevent that is a teacher with a gun, wouldn't you want there to be a teacher with a gun in your child's classroom?


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## citygator (Jun 3, 2022)

500 people every year die from accidental shootings. Let’s put guns in the hands of amateurs around kids. Amazing idea.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 3, 2022)

citygator said:


> 500 people every year die from accidental shootings. Let’s put guns in the hands of amateurs around kids. Amazing idea.


So fuck it.  Let the little rugrats keep dying.


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## Darkwind (Jun 3, 2022)

citygator said:


> 500 people every year die from accidental shootings. Let’s put guns in the hands of amateurs around kids. Amazing idea.


Yeah, but no one is saying that.  Literally, no one is saying that.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> We're keeping our AR-15s whether you like it or not.


I couldn't care less about you or your guns. 
It's par for the course that you believe your right to own one is more important that children's lives.


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## bodecea (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.
> 
> I believe we should.
> 
> ...


Parent/Teacher con-ferences would be interesting.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 3, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Well, the reality is that they don't. But, if they did, how many security personnel would be sufficient? One? A dozen? My high school had a total of 74 teachers. Imagine having 74 people determined to protect your child.


Two on every entrance, checking everyone who enters the school.


Canon Shooter said:


> But if the only thing that's going to prevent that is a teacher with a gun, wouldn't you want there to be a teacher with a gun in your child's classroom?


If that was the only way, yes. It's not the only only way.
My question to you is why do you think the only people who can stop these mass shootings are teachers?


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## Open Bolt (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I couldn't care less about you or your guns.


Nonetheless, I'm still keeping all my guns.




Hellbilly said:


> It's par for the course that you believe your right to own one is more important that children's lives.


That's because my right to own them _is_ more important than children's lives.

More to the point though, my right to own them doesn't cost any lives, children or otherwise.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 3, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Nonetheless, I'm still keeping all my guns.


Cool. I'll keep mine as well.


Open Bolt said:


> That's because my right to own them _is_ more important than children's lives.


Thanks for admitting it.


Open Bolt said:


> More to the point though, my right to own them doesn't cost any lives, children or otherwise.


Until you start using them to kill children.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I couldn't care less about you or your guns.
> It's par for the course that you believe your right to own one is more important that children's lives.


When the left -- you -- starts actually giving a fuck about children's lives, we may be interested in talking.  When drama and the crocodile victim tears cease and the adult buried deep inside decides to actually listen, possibly for the first time ever, we'll talk.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> why do you think the only people who can stop these mass shootings are teachers?


Who said that?  Post number and quote.


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## citygator (Jun 3, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> So fuck it.  Let the little rugrats keep dying.


more guns is not the answer.  That’s moronic. Fucking insane even.


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 3, 2022)

They should offer higher pay for those who would carry.  They would have to be trained and qualified by a professional to make sure they are qualified.

And for the pay some range time.  Guns and bullets provided.  How many per school.......depends on budget and those willing.

Better to have some armed should it happen than none.  School shootings in the past show the police have a habit of being very late.


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## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I would prefer the school hire armed security. Its not the teachers job.



The security guard in Parkland ran away, I believe a teacher would not abandon their students.


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## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

citygator said:


> more guns is not the answer.  That’s moronic. Fucking insane even.



If more guns are not the answer to crime, then why do we arm police?
I would much rather have armed teachers or ANYONE, rather than armed police.
Police are trained in military rules of engagement, which is to kill anything remotely associated with the enemy.
Teachers would refrain unless it was absolutely necessary.


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## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I couldn't care less about you or your guns.
> It's par for the course that you believe your right to own one is more important that children's lives.



The only way to save any lives is to have good guys with guns.
The bad guys will always have guns because they do not mind breaking minor laws in order to get their guns.

The reason we arm police and the military is that the only way to stop bad guys with guns is to have good guys with guns.


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## Rigby5 (Jun 3, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Yeah, but no one is saying that.  Literally, no one is saying that.



It takes about 15 minutes for people in the military to train people enough to be extremely safe with guns.

Accidental shootings are mostly from things like infants finding a loaded pistol.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> Two on every entrance, checking everyone who enters the school.
> 
> If that was the only way, yes. It's not the only only way.
> My question to you is why do you think the only people who can stop these mass shootings are teachers?



They're probably not the only ones, but they're certainly the most present...


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## Slade3200 (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.
> 
> I believe we should.
> 
> ...


Arm the Groomers!!


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## fncceo (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> View attachment 653611



I haven't met many teachers who could *FIND *Normandy on a map.


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## fncceo (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I couldn't care less about you or your guns.



Good, then you don't mind if I keep mine.

I promise to return the favor and not care about the stuff you have lying around your rec room.


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> I couldn't care less about you or your guns.
> It's par for the course that you believe your right to own one is more important that children's lives.



How does a law abiding citizen with an AR-15 threaten the lives of children?


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## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> more guns is not the answer.  That’s moronic. Fucking insane even.



So, if your child was in a classroom and a shooter entered that room, you wouldn't want the teacher to be armed and may, just maybe, save the life of your child?

Alrighty, then...


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## fncceo (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> you wouldn't want the teacher to be armed



Where will they keep their gun in the drag queen costume?


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Armed Teachers


Is a dreadful idea.

Reckless and irresponsible, armed teachers would only result in more dead children, killed by teachers devoid of the skill, experience, and training to be proficient with a firearm during an active shooter event.

Indeed, there are sworn officers who lack the skill and experience to effectively neutralize an active shooter situation.

Clearly those who advocate for arming teachers have no experience with shooting handguns – semi-auto handguns in particular; shooting at stationary targets in the controlled setting of a pistol range in no manner prepares someone for an active shooter crisis.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Well, we know that being unarmed doesn't work. If you have any doubt about that you can ask Irma Garcia's children.
> 
> But I have a question for you: If your child were in a classroom when a shooter entered the room, would you prefer your child's teacher be in a position to protect your child, or would you prefer that the shooter murder your child?
> 
> Because that's what happened to Irma Garcia and her students...


‘Good guy with a gun’ is a myth.

“It's also not a common outcome in previous active shooter episodes, according to the FBI. From 2000-2019, 119 of 345 active shooters committed suicide, the bureau said in a long-trend report. Another 119 were apprehended by police, 67 were killed by police, and five are at large. *In only four cases did citizens kill the shooters – and none of those four happened at an educational setting*.”



			https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2022-05-27/uvalde-buffalo-shootings-expose-the-myth-of-the-good-guy-with-a-gun


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## fncceo (Jun 4, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Is a dreadful idea.
> 
> Reckless and irresponsible, armed teachers would only result in more dead children, killed by teachers devoid of the skill, experience, and training to be proficient with a firearm during an active shooter event.
> 
> ...



There are a couple of reasons why teachers (or any competent adult) would have tactical advantage over an LEO in a active shooter scenario.

First, a classroom is a relatively secure environment -- typical one or two entrances.  The teacher already knows who should, and who should not, be in the room.  No one is saying teachers should gear up and then start clearing rooms.  The teacher would lock the door, take a firearm they've been trained to use, hunker down behind a desk and shoot the first thing that pokes its head inside that door, hoping it's not a first responder.

LEOs entering a active shooter scenario would not be familiar with the layout.  They would not know exactly who should, or should not be there, they will have to move from room to room offensively seeking the shooter.  As opposed to the teacher who is only defending a secure position.

It's not a perfect situation, but a minimally trained, and willing, teacher, could put up a decent defense while waiting for tactical forces to neutralize the threat.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> more guns is not the answer.  That’s moronic. Fucking insane even.


Not more guns.  One gun is all it takes to stop a killer.

I'm not surprised you couldn't figure that out all on your own.

Obtuse.


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## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> If more guns are not the answer to crime, then why do we arm police?
> I would much rather have armed teachers or ANYONE, rather than armed police.
> Police are trained in military rules of engagement, which is to kill anything remotely associated with the enemy.
> Teachers would refrain unless it was absolutely necessary.


If more guns are the answer then why… with more guns than anywhere…do we have more gun deaths than any first world nation by FAR?  

We need less access to guns. Less mass shooter guns. Less not more. Only a brain washed coward would think we need more guns.


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> If more guns are the answer then why… with more guns than anywhere…do we have more gun deaths than any first world nation by FAR?
> 
> We need less access to guns. Less mass shooter guns. Less not more. Only a brain washed coward would think we need more guns.


You want all guns gone.  Stop playing stupid games.  Your politicians who have armed security slip up and show their true colors all the time.  They ever pack SCOTUS they will try and do it.  They lost SCOTUS and lost their minds because this set them back decades on their agenda.

GOOD.


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## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Not more guns.  One gun is all it takes to stop a killer.
> 
> I'm not surprised you couldn't figure that out all on your own.
> 
> Obtuse.


That’s moronic. Your 11th grade education lead you to that conclusion?  Let’s meet in an ally… I’ll have an AR 15 and body Armour…. You wear a 3rd grade teacher’s dress, heels, and carry a 9mm while protecting your kids. Awesome. Great solution. Moron.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> That’s moronic. Your 11th grade education lead you to that conclusion? * Let’s meet in an ally*… I’ll have an AR 15 and body Armour…. You wear a 3rd grade teacher’s dress, heels, and carry a 9mm while protecting your kids. Awesome. Great solution. Moron.


"Let's meet in an ally".

We'll talk about education.


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## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> You want all guns gone.  Stop playing stupid games.  Your politicians who have armed security slip up and show their true colors all the time.  They ever pack SCOTUS they will try and do it.  They lost SCOTUS and lost their minds because this set them back decades on their agenda.
> 
> GOOD.


Absolutely. We want all the guns because obviously there is no middle solution where restricting mass murderer weapons and making it harder to get a gun to catch 18 year old unbalanced fuckers is acceptable.


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## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> "Let's meet in an ally".
> 
> We'll talk about education.


Awesome.  Typo callout. Your moronic point stands as moronic. Arming teachers is as dumb as voting for Trump.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 4, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The security guard in Parkland ran away, I believe a teacher would not abandon their students.


You're right. They wouldn't.
She didn't.



and now she's dead.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Awesome.  Typo callout. Your moronic point stands as moronic. Arming teachers is as dumb as voting for Trump.


Quote me saying "Arm teachers".

And then when you start proofreading your own vapid posts, we'll talk.


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Absolutely. We want all the guns because obviously there is no middle solution where restricting mass murderer weapons and making it harder to get a gun to catch 18 year old unbalanced fuckers is acceptable.


Then come and take them and lets get this over with.  Your not taking them.  If you want them .........BRING IT.

The 2nd shall not be infringed.  If you want to go full Tyrant on this.............Then we can just go to War with you.  Anytime you feel skippy.


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## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> If more guns are the answer then why… with more guns than anywhere…do we have more gun deaths than any first world nation by FAR?
> 
> We need less access to guns. Less mass shooter guns. Less not more. Only a brain washed coward would think we need more guns.


More guns is a response by Americans who see crime rising to unprecedented levels as a direct result of Democrat policies that promote crime. 

Less democrats is a better policy.


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Awesome.  Typo callout. Your moronic point stands as moronic. Arming teachers is as dumb as voting for Trump.


LOL

 Coming from a known gun grabbing bitch.

Listen to gator and DIE ON YOUR KNEES.


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## Hellbilly (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> They're probably not the only ones, but they're certainly the most present...


So, it makes more sense to you to let the gunman all the way into the classroom, where the children are, rather than stopping them at the front door?


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## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

If states and/or districts do not offer the kind of immunity police officers get, I'm here to tell you that teachers will not arm. Not even teachers I personally know who are very proficient with firearms. 

And who would blame them?


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## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Quote me saying "Arm teachers".
> 
> And then when you start proofreading your own vapid posts, we'll talk.


It’s a thread about arming teachers and you said all it takes is one gun to stop them.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> It’s a thread about arming teachers and you said all it takes is one gun to stop them.


So, no quote.


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## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> If more guns are the answer then why… with more guns than anywhere…do we have more gun deaths than any first world nation by FAR?
> 
> We need less access to guns. Less mass shooter guns. Less not more. Only a brain washed coward would think we need more guns.


More recently?

1) the democrat party war on police…they have attacked The police to the point the police have backed off doing their jobs for fear of persecution by the democrat party…they only respond to actual 911 calls, and have stopped pro active police work……..the most experienced officers are retiring early and the younger officers are quiting or going to friendlier departments out of democrat party controlled cities and states…..

this is allowing criminals to run wild.

2) democrat party prosecutors are refusing to press charges against criminals caught with guns….even with actual video of their gun crimes…they are dropping the gun charges even on felons caught with illegal guns…the democrat party judges are releasing felons with long criminal histories of gun violence with no bail required putting them back on the streets within days of capture…..democrat party politicians are getting rppassing laws that allow repeat gun offenders to walk free…

3) for 7 months the democrat party ordered their briwnshitprts…blm\ antics to burn, loot and kill in black neighborhoods, ordering the police to stand don and do nothing….

Criminals have received the message from the democrats and now are no longer afraid of getting caught or even pursued by the cops….

Longer term?

Our gun crime is isolated to tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities…….in these areas the out of wedlock birth rate in black neighborhoods is over 75%……fatherless homes are the breeding ground for violent criminals…fatherless boys who turn to gangs and crime because they have had no guidance….

As to Europe….?

They experienced culture shocks that we did not….Two World wars that devastated their societies….while our country was experiencing the family destruction of the Great Society…Europe had to rebuild after the destruction of the Two World Wars…..because of this destruction, their social welfare states have taken longer to create the family destruction that leads to young fatherless by poi’s and the violence they create.

Those reasons are just the beginning……..


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## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> If states and/or districts do not offer the kind of immunity police officers get, I'm here to tell you that teachers will not arm. Not even teachers I personally know who are very proficient with firearms.
> 
> And who would blame them?



14 states already arm their teachers…so far no problems that you claim….


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## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> More recently?
> 
> 1) the democrat party war on police…they have attacked The police to the point the police have backed off doing their jobs for fear of persecution by the democrat party…they only respond to actual 911 calls, and have stopped pro active police work……..the most experienced officers are retiring early and the younger officers are quiting or going to friendlier departments out of democrat party controlled cities and states…..
> 
> ...


All made up bullshit. You make ridiculous claims with no links for me to pound you into submission with. Weak. 

You slippery slope motherfuckers are the worst. So, wanting cops to be accountable for mistakes (not cover them up) and recognize that their actions are biased on many incidents means democrats don’t like police or policing? Fuck off.

How about recognizing moderation and nuance in shit instead of cowardly running to the extremes?


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> All made up bullshit. You make ridiculous claims with no links for me *to pound you into submission* with. Weak.
> 
> You slippery slope motherfuckers are the worst. So, wanting cops to be accountable for mistakes (not cover them up) and recognize that their actions are biased on many incidents means democrats don’t like police or policing? Fuck off.
> 
> How about recognizing moderation and nuance in shit instead of cowardly running to the extremes?


Chest thumping. 

Oh, pound me into submission, you big manly beast!  

Do you wonder why people don't like talking to you?


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## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> All made up bullshit. You make ridiculous claims with no links for me to pound you into submission with. Weak.
> 
> You slippery slope motherfuckers are the worst. So, wanting cops to be accountable for mistakes (not cover them up) and recognize that their actions are biased on many incidents means democrats don’t like police or policing? Fuck off.
> 
> How about recognizing moderation and nuance in shit instead of cowardly running to the extremes?


Tell me about your party's DEFUND THE POLICE MOVEMENT.........hmmm.

You are one to talk ..........lmao


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> 14 states already arm their teachers…so far no problems that you claim….


 Again. Do they encourage and/or support teachers being armed, or do they simply say yeah we have no right to take your guns on school property? That's for starters.

For enders those are no doubt states with strong 2A support. Now if you implement in states that are purple or blue, you're going to have more sue-happy parents.


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Chest thumping.
> 
> Oh, pound me into submission, you big manly beast!
> 
> Do you wonder why people don't like talking to you?


Intellectually disputing your claims… but you have to back them up first. You didn’t.


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Tell me about your party's DEFUND THE POLICE MOVEMENT.........hmmm.
> 
> You are one to talk ..........lmao


96% of the summer protests were peaceful.  You don’t look at any of that video.  None of them tried to overthrow a duly elected president.  There are plenty of bad actors in America you fuck. How about you look at the leaders and policies put forth?  Can’t you read? No democratic movement to defund. Minneapolis had a crisis for sure from the raw effect of that nasty murder.  But police budgets are way the fuck up.  Way up. Not down.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> 96% of the summer protests were peaceful.  You don’t look at any of that video.  None of them tried to overthrow a duly elected president.  There are plenty of bad actors in America you fuck. How about you look at the leaders and policies put forth?  Can’t you read? No democratic movement to defund. Minneapolis had a crisis for sure from the raw effect of that nasty murder.  But police budgets are way the fuck up.  Way up. Not down.


BS.  And your party DA's made sure too many walked.......Same as your side didn't arrest those recently harassing the Justices at their homes.

Police WERE MURDERED...........In blue shit holes your beloved party threw piss and shit at Federal officers because MOONBATS saw a Federal Court house as evil.

Sorry...........there is NO COMPARISON to the 2 events...........And they sure as hell weren't Peaceful.


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> BS.  And your party DA's made sure too many walked.......Same as your side didn't arrest those recently harassing the Justices at their homes.
> 
> Police WERE MURDERED...........In blue shit holes your beloved party threw piss and shit at Federal officers because MOONBATS saw a Federal Court house as evil.
> 
> Sorry...........there is NO COMPARISON to the 2 events...........And they sure as hell weren't Peaceful.


NATIONWIDE DEMONSTRATIONS​While the US has long been home to a vibrant protest environment, demonstrations surged to new levels in 2020. Between 24 May and 22 August, ACLED records more than 10,600 demonstration events across the country. Over 10,100 of these — or nearly 95% — involve peaceful protesters. Fewer than 570 — or approximately 5% — involve demonstrators engaging in violence. Well over 80% of all demonstrations are connected to the Black Lives Matter movement or the COVID-19 pandemic. 












						Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020
					

Preliminary analysis of key trends from May to August.




					acleddata.com


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> NATIONWIDE DEMONSTRATIONS​While the US has long been home to a vibrant protest environment, demonstrations surged to new levels in 2020. Between 24 May and 22 August, ACLED records more than 10,600 demonstration events across the country. Over 10,100 of these — or nearly 95% — involve peaceful protesters. Fewer than 570 — or approximately 5% — involve demonstrators engaging in violence. Well over 80% of all demonstrations are connected to the Black Lives Matter movement or the COVID-19 pandemic.
> View attachment 653831
> 
> 
> ...


LOL

Show a nationwide map and go SEE THE 200 CITIES WE BURNED IN DIDN'T MATTER...........In red states there were protests...........but they understood that if they go postal they will get hammered............not so much is blue cities.

Mostly peaceful my ass.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Intellectually disputing your claims… but you have to back them up first. You didn’t.


I don't need to.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> vibrant protest environment


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> So, it makes more sense to you to let the gunman all the way into the classroom, where the children are, rather than stopping them at the front door?



I never suggested such a thing, so don't be an idiot..

Apparently, though, you're fine with their being only a single layer of defense.

How stupid of you...


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> If states and/or districts do not offer the kind of immunity police officers get, I'm here to tell you that teachers will not arm. Not even teachers I personally know who are very proficient with firearms.
> 
> And who would blame them?



And I know of at least one which does.

Try not painting with such a wide brush...


----------



## Hellbilly (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> I never suggested such a thing, so don't be an idiot..
> 
> Apparently, though, you're fine with their being only a single layer of defense.


It's been a while since I was in school. When I went the teachers were inside the classroom with the children.



Canon Shooter said:


> How stupid of you...


Comments like this will end the discussion.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> It's been a while since I was in school. When I went the teachers were inside the classroom with the children.
> 
> 
> Comments like this will end the discussion.


They aren't glued to their seats.......they are capable of moving to engage if the need happens.............The best thing that can happen is that just perps knowing teachers are armed that they will not attack that school.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Is a dreadful idea.
> 
> Reckless and irresponsible, armed teachers would only result in more dead children, killed by teachers devoid of the skill, experience, and training to be proficient with a firearm during an active shooter event.



No one is ever really ready for an active shooter event.

But, if you read my initial post, you'll see where I do discuss training, etc. Also, I'm quite clear about the only teachers being armed are the ones who want to go through a proper COI in order to do it...



C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Indeed, there are sworn officers who lack the skill and experience to effectively neutralize an active shooter situation.



Why do you think a 22 year old rookie cop is better suited to using a firearm than, say, a 45 year old man who's been around guns all his life?



C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Clearly those who advocate for arming teachers have no experience with shooting handguns – semi-auto handguns in particular; shooting at stationary targets in the controlled setting of a pistol range in no manner prepares someone for an active shooter crisis.



I absolutely have experience with shooting handguns. I shot my first hand gun over 50 years ago. So, your comment is stupid.
So is your comment about shooting at stationary targets. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that when police train they shoot at... wait for it...
























Stationary targets.

What _would _get someone ready to train for an active shooter scenario?


----------



## Hellbilly (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> They aren't glued to their seats.......they are capable of moving to engage if the need happens.............The best thing that can happen is that just perps knowing teachers are armed that they will not attack that school.


So no children will die in a classroom with a shooter with automatic weapon against 1 teacher with a pistol?


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> ‘Good guy with a gun’ is a myth.



No, it's really not...



C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “It's also not a common outcome in previous active shooter episodes, according to the FBI. From 2000-2019, 119 of 345 active shooters committed suicide, the bureau said in a long-trend report. Another 119 were apprehended by police, 67 were killed by police, and five are at large. *In only four cases did citizens kill the shooters – and none of those four happened at an educational setting*.”
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2022-05-27/uvalde-buffalo-shootings-expose-the-myth-of-the-good-guy-with-a-gun



Well, of _course _there were hardly any citizens who killed mass shooters in an educational setting. 

Wanna' know why?

Because, by and large, teachers aren't armed.

An armed teacher at Robb Elementary could've saved a lot of lives. But, because it doesn't happen that often, you make it clear that you're willing to accept the alternative...


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> They aren't glued to their seats.......they are capable of moving to engage if the need happens.............*The best thing that can happen is that just perps knowing teachers are armed that they will not attack that school.*


That's the point.  My Constitutional Carry state is a pretty quiet place.  I think this is because no one knows who has the capability to drop them on the spot.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Absolutely. We want all the guns because obviously there is no middle solution where restricting mass murderer weapons and making it harder to get a gun to catch 18 year old unbalanced fuckers is acceptable.



This is the one great failing of the anti-gun crowd.

You want something which you will never achieve: the banning of all firearms. It will never, ever happen. Ever. There would never be enough votes to repeal the 2nd Amendment. If your IQ exceeded your shoe size you would know this.

Instead, why not try to work with the the pro-2nd Amendment crowd on formulating some ideas that are actually viable. As long as you insist on getting "all the guns" you're going to get nothing but pushback...


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Again. Do they encourage and/or support teachers being armed, or do they simply say yeah we have no right to take your guns on school property? That's for starters.



A school district can absolutely keep guns off of school property.

If you were really a teacher you would know that...


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> So no children will die in a classroom with a shooter with automatic weapon against 1 teacher with a pistol?


You didn't know that automatic weapons require a specific FFL? The license and the automatic weapon are expensive and difficult to obtain.

It's generally thought to be a good idea to know facts when arguing matters you don't seem to understand.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> So no children will die in a classroom with a shooter with automatic weapon against 1 teacher with a pistol?



No one has said that. Why do you insist on stupidly trying to put words into the mouths of others?

Ad _no one_ is going to be walking into a classroom with an automatic weapon. I'm getting the impression that you're out of your depth here. You simply don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

21 people were killed in Texas. Wouldn't it have been better if a teacher would've been able to get off a shot or two and, maybe, killing the shooter before he got to #21?


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> 96% of the summer protests were peaceful.  You don’t look at any of that video.  None of them tried to overthrow a duly elected president.  There are plenty of bad actors in America you fuck. How about you look at the leaders and policies put forth?  Can’t you read? No democratic movement to defund. Minneapolis had a crisis for sure from the raw effect of that nasty murder.  But police budgets are way the fuck up.  Way up. Not down.




It was the other percent of blm/antifa that burned, looted, and murdered about 40 people over 7 months while the democrat party, their political masters......ordered the police to stand back and do nothing....and then, with kamala harris, bailed out the worst of the worst...causing close to 2 billion dollars in damage.....


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> It's been a while since I was in school. When I went the teachers were inside the classroom with the children.



And?



Hellbilly said:


> Comments like this will end the discussion.



Then stop being stupid. Stop trying to put words in the mouths of others and stop talking about automatic weapons. You're making it glaringly clear that you're clueless. Why you insist on putting that on display is a mystery...


----------



## Hellbilly (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Then stop being stupid.


Have it your way then.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> Have it your way then.



Good.

You're far too intellectually bankrupt to enter into a discussion such as this...


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> So no children will die in a classroom with a shooter with automatic weapon against 1 teacher with a pistol?




The shooter did not have an automatic weapon.........he had a normal rifle.......The AR-15 is a civilian rifle......the police also use it.

And yes.....someone with a pistol can stop someone armed with an AR015 rifle...the only advantage the rifle has is at long distances........50 to 400 yards.....

For example.....likely you don't know about this because the media didn't give it coverage....not the 24/7 coverage of the mass public shooting.....why?   Because the woman with her pistol stopped the mass public shooter with his AR-15.........that would have deflated some of the joy for the democrat party anti-gunners.....and their celebration of the school shooting opportunity...

This happened the same week as the school shooting, but because this woman had a gun, the killer was stopped dead....literally stopped dead...West Virginia mass shooting stopped...


*People like this *
*
West Virginia woman who stopped 

what could have become a mass shooting just a day after Uvalde.

Police said a woman who was lawfully carrying a pistol shot and killed a man who began shooting at a crowd of people Wednesday night in Charleston.
Dennis Butler was killed after allegedly shooting at dozens of people attending a graduation party Wednesday near the Vista View Apartment complex. No injuries were reported from those at the party.
Investigators said Butler was warned about speeding in the area with children present before he left. He later returned with an AR-15-style firearm and began firing into the crowd before he was shot and killed.
“Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night,” Charleston Police Department Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett said.
Officers did not go into detail, but said Butler did have an extensive criminal history.*


> *
> 
> *


*Now, doesn’t that sound like an attempted mass shooting to you?
But it wasn’t.
It wasn’t because the woman was there, had a gun, and had the will to use it at that crucial moment. Hazelett noted the woman won’t be facing any charges, which she shouldn’t.*


----------



## SweetSue92 (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> A school district can absolutely keep guns off of school property.
> 
> If you were really a teacher you would know that...



Yes I know. A school district allowing guns on property is different from one actively encouraging teachers to get trained and armed.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> Yes I know. A school district allowing guns on property is different from one actively encouraging teachers to get trained and armed.



I don't know of a single school district in the country that does that. But, if a teacher wants to be armed in a district which allows it, yes, the school should very much insist on that teacher being trained...


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> I don't know of a single school district in the country that does that. But, if a teacher wants to be armed in a district which allows it, yes, the school should very much insist on that teacher being trained...




Yes......if they want better security, arming some teachers and support staff would act as 1. a deterrent against attack, and 2. a last line of defense...

I think support staff would be the better option....a Teacher's responsibilty is the kids in their classroom....while an administrator, a clerk, a librarian, .....the shooter won't know exactly where they are in the building at any particular time....therefore this random threat will act as a deterrent for any attack.....


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I think support staff would be the better option....a Teacher's responsibilty is the kids in their classroom....while an administrator, a clerk, a librarian, .....the shooter won't know exactly where they are in the building at any particular time....therefore this random threat will act as a deterrent for any attack.....



Likewise, with armed teachers, the shooter won't know which teachers are armed and which ones aren't...


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Likewise, with armed teachers, the shooter won't know which teachers are armed and which ones aren't...




True....

The only thing is a teacher with a gun will need to stay in their classroom with their own children....if the shooter knows the schedule for the building he will know when teachers are in their classrooms....support staff could be anywhere in the building, creating an unknown factor that will deter attack more...


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Likewise, with armed teachers, the shooter won't know which teachers are armed and which ones aren't...




Of course........this is all really moot.......

A determined killer, in the face of armed staff, and a secure building, will attack before the kids go into the building, or at the end of the day when they are leaving the building...

If they are really determined to kill a lot of kids and adults...they will simply rent a truck.....


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> LOL
> 
> Show a nationwide map and go SEE THE 200 CITIES WE BURNED IN DIDN'T MATTER...........In red states there were protests...........but they understood that if they go postal they will get hammered............not so much is blue cities.
> 
> Mostly peaceful my ass.


You’re a moron who arrives without fact. Peace out turd.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> If they are really determined to kill a lot of kids and adults...they will simply rent a truck.


Definitely something which shouldn't be lost in this whole debate...


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> It was the other percent of blm/antifa that burned, looted, and murdered about 40 people over 7 months while the democrat party, their political masters......ordered the police to stand back and do nothing....and then, with kamala harris, bailed out the worst of the worst...causing close to 2 billion dollars in damage.....


The narrative your masters get you to believe is insane.  People saw a vicious murder by police on video and protested all summer…. Very few incidents were violent. All you do is focus on the few outliers because your masters want you to be all for police brutality so when the time comes you won’t object to the authoritarian in time. “When they came for my neighbor I said nothing…”


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> This is the one great failing of the anti-gun crowd.
> 
> You want something which you will never achieve: the banning of all firearms. It will never, ever happen. Ever. There would never be enough votes to repeal the 2nd Amendment. If your IQ exceeded your shoe size you would know this.
> 
> Instead, why not try to work with the the pro-2nd Amendment crowd on formulating some ideas that are actually viable. As long as you insist on getting "all the guns" you're going to get nothing but pushback...


That was sarcasm. There is no middle ground with 2A crowd. They assume every little thing is a step towards banning guns so they oppose everything…. So we might as well come for them all!


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> That was sarcasm. There is no middle ground with 2A crowd. They assume every little thing is a step towards banning guns so they oppose everything…. So we might as well come for them all!


But you're never going to achieve that.

Every single gun owner I know is in favor of a common sense approach to addressing gun violence. Unfortunately, the anti-gun crowd does not want that. They don't want people to have guns, period.

Again, that's a pipe dream. That will never happen.

And, yes, I certainly acknowledge that there are some serious whack-jobs on the far right who are vehemently opposed to any type of law or restriction on any type of weapon. Those people are an extreme minority, though...


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> That was sarcasm. There is no middle ground with 2A crowd. They assume every little thing is a step towards banning guns so they oppose everything…. So we might as well come for them all!


Bring it.


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> But you're never going to achieve that.
> 
> Every single gun owner I know is in favor of a common sense approach to addressing gun violence. Unfortunately, the anti-gun crowd does not want that. They don't want people to have guns, period.
> 
> ...


Link one piece of legislation proposed by a democrat or one single serious leader in the dem party coming for everyone’s guns?  Remember when Obama was coming for them?  It’s a ruse. The right wingers scare you with the slippery slope and you’ve bought it. Answer my questions please.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Link one piece of legislation proposed by a democrat or one single serious leader in the dem party coming for everyone’s guns?  Remember when Obama was coming for them?  It’s a ruse. The right wingers scare you with the slippery slope and you’ve bought it. Answer my questions please.



I remember Irish Bob saying "Hell yes, we want to take your" guns.

That's good enough for me.

If that stupid sonofabitch had gotten into office, he would've gone for confiscation. He fucking admitted it..

And what questions are you referring to. I responded to this post by you:

"That was sarcasm. There is no middle ground with 2A crowd. They assume every little thing is a step towards banning guns so they oppose everything…. So we might as well come for them all!"

I don't see a question there.

What I do see is you being a hypocrite. You accuse the 2nd Amendment supporters as having no middle ground while, in the same breath, prove that you don't, either.

Propose something from a common sense perspective and see what happens...


----------



## citygator (Jun 4, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> I remember Irish Bob saying "Hell yes, we want to take your" guns.
> 
> That's good enough for me.
> 
> If that stupid sonofabitch had gotten into office, he would've gone for confiscation. He fucking admitted it...


Like I thought. Nothing-burger.  Sigh. Honestly why do you even try to debate when you clearly have no grounding in facts? You’re an emotional irrational lemming led around by your balls that the GOP squeezes tight.  You should be embarrassed.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Like I thought. Nothing-burger.  Sigh. Honestly why do you even try to debate when you clearly have no grounding in facts? You’re an emotional irrational lemming led around by your balls that the GOP squeezes tight.  You should be embarrassed.



You're retarded.

A Presidential candidate from the left said he would go after them. Of course democrats haven't put forth such a bill, simply because they know that decent Americans would never stand for it. But when Irish Bob stands up and says what he said, and the crowd goes nuts for it, good, decent Americans should take notice...


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

citygator said:


> Link one piece of legislation proposed by a democrat or one single serious leader in the dem party coming for everyone’s guns?  Remember when Obama was coming for them?  It’s a ruse. The right wingers scare you with the slippery slope and you’ve bought it. Answer my questions please.


Biden's agenda.









						Joe Biden's Plan to End Gun Violence | Joe Biden for President
					

Joe Biden's plan to end gun violence will tackle America's gun violence head on, and treat it as the public health epidemic it is.




					joebiden.com
				




Biden's executive orders









						Biden's Executive Actions on Guns - Guns and Ammo
					

It should be no surprise that the nation's executive branch is taking unilateral action against firearms.




					www.gunsandammo.com


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 4, 2022)

Biden and union worker get into it.  Over AR 15.  Union officials tell him that's enough.  Biden saying AR15s are illegal.


----------



## citygator (Jun 5, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> You're retarded.
> 
> A Presidential candidate from the left said he would go after them. Of course democrats haven't put forth such a bill, simply because they know that decent Americans would never stand for it. But when Irish Bob stands up and says what he said, and the crowd goes nuts for it, good, decent Americans should take notice...


Thank you for admitting you have no ground to stand on for your position. Most people lie but you just feel comfy being in quicksand. 

I have no idea what an Irish bob is you toad. Use English. The fucking sub culture you guys on the right carve out via name calling is indicative of your lack of intellect and maturity.


----------



## citygator (Jun 5, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Biden's agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


all really good policy and zero initiative to take all guns away from Americans.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 5, 2022)

citygator said:


> all really good policy and zero initiative to take all guns away from Americans.


Come and take them bitch


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 5, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Come and take them bitch


I can't wait to see the zombies coming up my front walk!


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 5, 2022)

citygator said:


> Thank you for admitting you have no ground to stand on for your position. Most people lie but you just feel comfy being in quicksand.



It's laughable.

You're whining like a little bitch because I don't provide a link to any proposed legislation, when the fact of the matter is that I never claimed there was proposed legislation.

But when Irish Bob, the darling of the left, says he's going to take the guns, it's enough to be worrisome...



citygator said:


> I have no idea what an Irish bob is you toad. Use English.



It's not a "what", dipshit, it's a "who".

And the fact that you don't know who he is tells me just how uninformed you really are...



citygator said:


> The fucking sub culture you guys on the right carve out via name calling is indicative of your lack of intellect and maturity.



This from the side who refers to a former President as "Drumpf".

'Da fuck outta' with your bullshit, pissant...


----------



## citygator (Jun 5, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> It's laughable.
> 
> You're whining like a little bitch because I don't provide a link to any proposed legislation, when the fact of the matter is that I never claimed there was proposed legislation.
> 
> ...


That a lot of nothing to simply reinforce you have  nothing backing up of your claim. You guys are priceless and clueless.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 5, 2022)

citygator said:


> That a lot of nothing to simply reinforce you have  nothing backing up of your claim. You guys are priceless and clueless.



Right.

A candidate for the office of President of the United States said he wanted to confiscate guns.

And you're mentally retarded...


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 6, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Is a dreadful idea.


Not if you want to stop massacres.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Reckless and irresponsible, armed teachers would only result in more dead children, killed by teachers devoid of the skill, experience, and training to be proficient with a firearm during an active shooter event.


Nonsense.

And no one is opposing giving the teachers a bit of training.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Clearly those who advocate for arming teachers have no experience with shooting handguns – semi-auto handguns in particular; shooting at stationary targets in the controlled setting of a pistol range in no manner prepares someone for an active shooter crisis.


What do handguns have to do with anything?  Arm the teachers with rifles.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 6, 2022)

citygator said:


> If more guns are the answer then why… with more guns than anywhere…do we have more gun deaths than any first world nation by FAR?


Who cares?  People who are killed with guns are not "more dead" than people who are killed with some other weapon.




citygator said:


> We need less access to guns. Less mass shooter guns. Less not more. Only a brain washed coward would think we need more guns.


No.  America chooses to remain free.




citygator said:


> That’s moronic. Your 11th grade education lead you to that conclusion?  Let’s meet in an ally… I’ll have an AR 15 and body Armour…. You wear a 3rd grade teacher’s dress, heels, and carry a 9mm while protecting your kids. Awesome. Great solution. Moron.


Why are you limiting the teachers' firepower to handguns?




citygator said:


> Absolutely. We want all the guns because obviously there is no middle solution where restricting mass murderer weapons and making it harder to get a gun to catch 18 year old unbalanced fuckers is acceptable.


Mass murder weapons have been restricted for 90 years now.

We're living in the 21st century now.




citygator said:


> Your moronic point stands as moronic.


His point is not moronic in any way.




citygator said:


> Arming teachers is as dumb as voting for Trump.


Both are very good ideas.




citygator said:


> Link one piece of legislation proposed by a democrat or one single serious leader in the dem party coming for everyone’s guns?


Traitor Joe.




citygator said:


> Remember when Obama was coming for them?


Yes.  It is a good thing that the NRA defeated his attempt to do so.




citygator said:


> all really good policy and zero initiative to take all guns away from Americans.


You don't get it.  Taking away AR-15s is just as bad as taking away all guns.  One thing is just as bad as the other thing.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 6, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> You're right. They wouldn't.
> She didn't.
> View attachment 653787
> and now she's dead.


It's a shame she didn't have a rifle.




Hellbilly said:


> So no children will die in a classroom with a shooter with automatic weapon against 1 teacher with a pistol?


What an absurd example.  No full-auto weapon has ever been used in a school shooting.  And why are you limiting the teacher to a handgun?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 6, 2022)

SweetSue92 said:


> If states and/or districts do not offer the kind of immunity police officers get, I'm here to tell you that teachers will not arm. Not even teachers I personally know who are very proficient with firearms.
> And who would blame them?


I'm fine with offering teachers such immunity.


----------



## braalian (Jun 7, 2022)

Trained and armed professional security is what’s needed.

Relatively few teachers have the desire, temperament or ability to function as armed defenders. Trying to force them to do so will only result in a worse teacher shortage than there already is.

Low wages for all staff in public schools plays a huge role in any attempt to make these school secure. Most schools already have security staff (not sure if most are armed or not). But schools do this on the cheap. They outsource to shitty security agencies that pay $10-$15 an hour, the same rent-a-cops that man Wal Mart exits.

Pay shitty wages, you usually get shitty employees. How many trained, experienced security professionals are you gonna get at the same wage fast food workers make?

We need to bite the bullet and actually *pay* for adequate armed security staff. But I guess our kids aren’t worth the tax increase…..


----------



## Pellinore (Jun 8, 2022)

braalian said:


> Trained and armed professional security is what’s needed.
> 
> Relatively few teachers have the desire, temperament or ability to function as armed defenders. Trying to force them to do so will only result in a worse teacher shortage than there already is.
> 
> ...


I agree.  I think it should be another branch of the Sheriff's Department.

They should be specially trained in child psychology, de-escalation, and other specialized aspects of training for the school environment, and their mission should be clearly defined so that they are not used for discipline, intimidation, and so on.  They should be members of their own community whenever possible, and should be equal in pay, prestige, and equipment as the rest of the force.  Schools should also be required to have a full compliment of counselors, nurses, administrators, and psychologists; other departments should not be defunded to provide the SROs.

I think most people would be OK with their taxes going up by a few dollars a year or so to afford this.  I wouldn't mind.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 14, 2022)

braalian said:


> Relatively few teachers have the desire, temperament or ability to function as armed defenders.



Why do you believe that?



braalian said:


> Trying to force them to do so will only result in a worse teacher shortage than there already is.



No one is talking about forcing anyone to do anything so, please, dispense with the left-wing rhetoric....


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 17, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> View attachment 653611


The children are the sacrificial lambs because teachers refuse to protect them. And the teachers sacrifice themselves along with the lambs.

By not being prepared to protect the kids they are "teaching" them that they have no responsibility for their own safety but must always rely on someone else to protect them. That people are arming themselves by the millions (as adults) shows that they have finally come to their senses and have rejected their teacher's past (tacit) instructions in this regard.


----------



## Hellbilly (Jun 17, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> The children are the sacrificial lambs because teachers refuse to protect them.


It’s the teachers job to teach children, not to kill for them.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 17, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> It’s the teachers job to teach children, not to kill for them.


Yes.  Those teachers who died trying to confront school shooters were bad teachers.  A good teacher would have stayed out of the shooters' way and let them continue their massacres unimpeded.

Unfortunately I think I need to point out that this post is sarcasm.  Consider it pointed out.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 17, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> It’s the teachers job to teach children, not to kill for them.


And to die with them if need be?


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 17, 2022)

Hellbilly said:


> It’s the teachers' job to teach children...


That would be an interesting debate as well.


----------



## initforme (Jun 18, 2022)

Want teachers to carry?   No problem.  Add a yearly stipend of at least 10 grand per year as a start.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 18, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Armed Teachers..


...is still an idiotic idea.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Jun 18, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.
> 
> I believe we should.
> 
> ...


*Liberalism Is a Death Wish, Which Quickly Turns Into a Kill Wish*

It would be a bad idea except that we live in bad times, which makes it a good idea.  We can't live in the liberal fantasy that there are no bad people except THOSE HORRIBLE WHITE PEOPLE.  Under that perspective, they turned the fake-victimized bad people loose on us and also, with their creation of toxic entertainment, made harmless depressed losers into excited predators.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 18, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> You're retarded.
> 
> A Presidential candidate from the left said he would go after them. Of course democrats haven't put forth such a bill, simply because they know that decent Americans would never stand for it. But when Irish Bob stands up and says what he said, and the crowd goes nuts for it, good, decent Americans should take notice...


You’re a liar.

There is no legislation proposed by Democrats that seeks to ‘ban’ guns or ‘confiscate’ firearms; there is no serious leader in the Democratic Party advocating for ‘banning’ guns or ‘confiscating’ firearms.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 18, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> The children are the sacrificial lambs because teachers refuse to protect them. And the teachers sacrifice themselves along with the lambs.
> 
> By not being prepared to protect the kids they are "teaching" them that they have no responsibility for their own safety but must always rely on someone else to protect them. That people are arming themselves by the millions (as adults) shows that they have finally come to their senses and have rejected their teacher's past (tacit) instructions in this regard.


Clearly you don’t know anything about handguns – semi-automatic pistols in particular.

It takes years of training and experience to be proficient with a semi-auto; shooting at a stationary target in the controlled environment of a pistol range in no manner prepares someone for the chaos of an actual active shooter event.

Not only will armed teachers fail to prevent a mass school shooting, but unqualified, inexperienced teachers would end up killing children and other innocent bystanders.

Arming teachers is unmitigated idiocy.


----------



## flan327 (Jun 18, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> Arm the teachers, disarm the cops.


Wow 

Wow

WOW


----------



## flan327 (Jun 18, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> So fuck it.  Let the little rugrats keep dying.


What is WRONG WITH YOU?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 18, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Opponents of this idea are quick to say that it's a bad idea, yet, thus far, every single one has failed to offer a valid reason as to why it would be a bad idea.



It's a bad idea for a number of reasons:

1. Literally no person went into teaching elementary school so they could act as a first-responder gunslinger

2. There is no value in turning America into an armed encampment.  If you can't solve the problem without adding MORE GUNS then your solution is a sign of mental illness.

3. This happens almost NO WHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET with the frequency it does here.  Yet every other place on earth has exactly the same type of creatures (humans) with the full set of evils and mental illnesses.  The big difference is America LOVES GUNS.  We need to fix that, not just bring more guns into ridiculous places.

I honestly wish gun advocates would wake up one day and realize how fucked up it is to suggest ARMING TEACHERS as a SOLUTION!

The gun advocates have now turned America into a hellscape that is NOT worthy of respect, NOT worthy of defense.  It is quickly becoming a killing field.

Let's GROW UP.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 18, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> So fuck it.  Let the little rugrats keep dying.



...because the answer you would never consider might actually work.  So of course the only other option is to let kids continue dying because America can't possibly give up its guns.

They give us "freedom"

The freedom to die at the grocery store.
The freedom to die at the school.
The freedom to die at the theater.
The freedom to die at church.
The freedom to die on the road to work.

America is a deathcult.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 18, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's a bad idea for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. Literally no person went into teaching elementary school so they could act as a first-responder gunslinger
> 
> ...


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 18, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ...because the answer you would never consider might actually work.  So of course the only other option is to let kids continue dying because America can't possibly give up its guns.
> 
> They give us "freedom"
> 
> ...


No.  The American left is a death cult.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 18, 2022)

flan327 said:


> What is WRONG WITH YOU?


You're still here.


----------



## Zincwarrior (Jun 18, 2022)

I am confused. Are they Marxists grooming your kids with CRT, or are they Rambo mercenaries ready to shoot it out with Spetznatz?


----------



## flan327 (Jun 18, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ...because the answer you would never consider might actually work.  So of course the only other option is to let kids continue dying because America can't possibly give up its guns.
> 
> They give us "freedom"
> 
> ...


Then MOVE


----------



## Winco (Jun 18, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.
> 
> I believe we should.
> 
> ...


Flash bangs in every classroom


----------



## flan327 (Jun 18, 2022)

Winco said:


> Flash bangs in every classroom


No thanks


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 18, 2022)

citygator said:


> The narrative your masters get you to believe is insane.  People saw a vicious murder by police on video and protested all summer…. Very few incidents were violent. All you do is focus on the few outliers because your masters want you to be all for police brutality so when the time comes you won’t object to the authoritarian in time. “When they came for my neighbor I said nothing…”



40 people were murdered, businesses were burned and looted for 7 months…..police statins were burned and gutted, police were wounded, court houses were burned

2 billion dollars in damage to black and other minority owned businesses

They weren’t “mostly peaceful.”


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 18, 2022)

citygator said:


> That was sarcasm. There is no middle ground with 2A crowd. They assume every little thing is a step towards banning guns so they oppose everything…. So we might as well come for them all!



We only know that the things the anti- gunners want, which do nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters but only harm normal gun owners …are steps toward banning and confiscating guns….

As one article points out….there is never “compromise,” there is only taking by anti- gunners…


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 18, 2022)

citygator said:


> The narrative your masters get you to believe is insane.  People saw a vicious murder by police on video and protested all summer…. Very few incidents were violent. All you do is focus on the few outliers because your masters want you to be all for police brutality so when the time comes you won’t object to the authoritarian in time. “When they came for my neighbor I said nothing…”



There was no murder….a drug addict with a cocktail of illegal guns with 3 clogged arteries died of his life choices…..he was
Dead before the cops showed up, he just hadn’t stopped moving


----------



## Zincwarrior (Jun 18, 2022)

flan327 said:


> No thanks


Bangs in every classroom? Sounds like a certain film genre.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 18, 2022)

flan327 said:


> Then MOVE



Because YOUR types have fucked up MY COUNTRY?  

So if I come to your house and shit all over the furniture will you simply "move"?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 18, 2022)

Zincwarrior said:


> I am confused. Are they Marxists grooming your kids with CRT, or are they Rambo mercenaries ready to shoot it out with Spetznatz?



Don't worry, the "arm the teachers" camp is equally confused.  They hate teachers 99% of the time but when it comes down to defending their GUNS they will side with anyone, even a CRT-spouting groomer.

It is truly confusing, bordering on the mentally ill.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 18, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> No.  The American left is a death cult.



You guys never seem to have an "original" come-back.  Is it because you lack education or you're just really slow?


----------



## flan327 (Jun 18, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We only know that the things the anti- gunners want, which do nothing to stop criminals or mass shooters but only harm normal gun owners …are steps toward banning and confiscating guns….
> 
> As one article points out….there is never “compromise,” there is only taking by anti- gunners…


You are LYING


----------



## flan327 (Jun 18, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys never seem to have an "original" come-back.  Is it because you lack education or you're just really slow?


Both?


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 18, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys never seem to have an "original" come-back.  Is it because you lack education or you're just really slow?


Oh, are you still here?


----------



## flan327 (Jun 18, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Oh, are you still here?


Are EWE?


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 18, 2022)

flan327 said:


> Are EWE?


Baaaaaaah-baaah.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 18, 2022)

Winco said:


> Flash bangs in every classroom


Sure.  Tennis ball and a bunch of match sticks and a fuse.  yes that would be cheap.

lol


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 18, 2022)

Zincwarrior said:


> I am confused. Are they Marxists grooming your kids with CRT, or are they Rambo mercenaries ready to shoot it out with Spetznatz?


Put the broad brush down ...........and stop drinking til you stop seeing blurry.


----------



## Winco (Jun 18, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Sure.  Tennis ball and a bunch of match sticks and a fuse.  yes that would be cheap.
> 
> lol


What could go wrong?

You guys have all kinds of crazy solutions 
I thought I’d throw out another crazy idea.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 18, 2022)

Winco said:


> What could go wrong?
> 
> You guys have all kinds of crazy solutions
> I thought I’d throw out another crazy idea.


And I mocked your crazy idea.  She how that shit works............BTW........disregard the formula given.......lol


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 18, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Clearly you don’t know anything about handguns – semi-automatic pistols in particular.
> 
> It takes years of training and experience to be proficient with a semi-auto; shooting at a stationary target in the controlled environment of a pistol range in no manner prepares someone for the chaos of an actual active shooter event.
> 
> ...


I have already suggested shoulder-fired weapons for teachers. More stable and more accurate. Accuracy training is easy. It's the mindset that can be difficult.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 18, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's a bad idea for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. Literally no person went into teaching elementary school so they could act as a first-responder gunslinger
> 
> ...


  No one wants to arm teachers but it has become necessary.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 18, 2022)

Zincwarrior said:


> I am confused. Are they Marxists grooming your kids with CRT, or are they Rambo mercenaries ready to shoot it out with Spetznatz?


Teachers are called on to wear many hats as it is. What's one more?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 18, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> No one wants to arm teachers but it has become necessary.



Actually it ISN'T necessary!  We can restrict guns dramatically and probably see a SIGNIFICANT decrease in these types of mass killings.

The only reason we are even THINKING this stupid, stupid thought is because we can't IMAGINE limiting guns.

We honestly can't even imagine it, so instead we imagine everything else.

It's bizarre!


----------



## Leo123 (Jun 18, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> Arm the teachers, disarm the cops.


Stupid troll ^^^^^^^^


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

initforme said:


> Want teachers to carry?   No problem.  Add a yearly stipend of at least 10 grand per year as a start.


Nah.  Just let the kids keep dying.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

flan327 said:


> What is WRONG WITH YOU?


Nothing is wrong with him.  If the left would rather have kids die, that's on them.




flan327 said:


> You are LYING


No he isn't.  Everything he said is true.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> It's a bad idea for a number of reasons:
> 1. Literally no person went into teaching elementary school so they could act as a first-responder gunslinger


That does not make it a bad idea.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> 2. There is no value in turning America into an armed encampment.  If you can't solve the problem without adding MORE GUNS then your solution is a sign of mental illness.


That is flat out untrue.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> 3. This happens almost NO WHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET with the frequency it does here.  Yet every other place on earth has exactly the same type of creatures (humans) with the full set of evils and mental illnesses.  The big difference is America LOVES GUNS.  We need to fix that, not just bring more guns into ridiculous places.


That is a case of faulty logic leading to an erroneous conclusion.

Further, no one will be giving up their guns.

So.  I guess arming teachers isn't a bad idea after all.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I honestly wish gun advocates would wake up one day and realize how fucked up it is to suggest ARMING TEACHERS as a SOLUTION!


We don't tend to "realize" things that are not true.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> The gun advocates have now turned America into a hellscape that is NOT worthy of respect, NOT worthy of defense.  It is quickly becoming a killing field.
> Let's GROW UP.


We have nothing to do with causing the problem.  But we're not going to let you take advantage of the problem to violate our civil liberties for no reason.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ...because the answer you would never consider might actually work.


Your proposal to violate people's civil liberties for no reason will not do anything but violate people's civil liberties for no reason.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> So of course the only other option is to let kids continue dying because America can't possibly give up its guns.


Not at all.  We could always arm teachers so they can defend the kids instead of dying along with them.


----------



## braalian (Jun 19, 2022)

Hire qualified armed security guards.

Teachers are teachers and security is security. You can’t just mash the two jobs together.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Actually it ISN'T necessary!  We can restrict guns dramatically and probably see a SIGNIFICANT decrease in these types of mass killings.


Well first, you are wrong.  Restricting guns will not prevent prevent school massacres in any way whatsoever.  The massacres would just be committed using different weapons.

And second, you can't restrict guns.  We will not allow you to do that.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> The only reason we are even THINKING this stupid, stupid thought is because we can't IMAGINE limiting guns.


No.

It is true that we will not allow you to violate our civil liberties.  However, that is not why we are thinking about arming teachers.

We are thinking about arming teachers because that will actually stop school massacres.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

braalian said:


> Hire qualified armed security guards.
> Teachers are teachers and security is security. You can’t just mash the two jobs together.


I've nothing against hiring guards, but emergency self defense is not the same thing as a job dedicated to security.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> ...is still an idiotic idea.


Hardly.  It would put an end to school massacres.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> You’re a liar.


Wrong.  Everything that he said is true.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> There is no legislation proposed by Democrats that seeks to ‘ban’ guns or ‘confiscate’ firearms; there is no serious leader in the Democratic Party advocating for ‘banning’ guns or ‘confiscating’ firearms.


That is incorrect.  Many on the left mean to do exactly that.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Clearly you don’t know anything about handguns – semi-automatic pistols in particular.
> It takes years of training and experience to be proficient with a semi-auto; shooting at a stationary target in the controlled environment of a pistol range in no manner prepares someone for the chaos of an actual active shooter event.


First of all, no one said anything about semi-automatic pistols, or even handguns.

And second, nonsense.  It does not take long to learn the fundamentals of self defense.  When the bad guy charges into your classroom, shoot the bad guy.

And use a rifle.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Not only will armed teachers fail to prevent a mass school shooting, but unqualified, inexperienced teachers would end up killing children and other innocent bystanders.


Nonsense.




C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Arming teachers is unmitigated idiocy.


Not if you want to prevent kids from being slaughtered.


----------



## braalian (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I've nothing against hiring guards, but emergency self defense is not the same thing as a job dedicated to security.


Allow teachers who are already responsible gun owners to be armed at school if they so choose. But arming all teachers as policy is a bad idea.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

braalian said:


> Allow teachers who are already responsible gun owners to be armed at school if they so choose. But arming all teachers as policy is a bad idea.


Agreed.


----------



## alexa (Jun 19, 2022)

Moonglow said:


> Arm the teachers, disarm the cops.


Are you talking about not wanting armed police in Schools.  Living in the UK I find the idea of having people with guns prowling around schools horrendous.  I also hear the police can arrest the kids at school which was described as one of the stresses which increases these school shootings.  They need to be stopped.  I don't know how much different it is for kids being brought up in the US or being  brought up in a war zone.


----------



## alexa (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Well, the reality is that they don't. But, if they did, how many security personnel would be sufficient? One? A dozen? My high school had a total of 74 teachers. Imagine having 74 people determined to protect your child.
> 
> And of course no one wants their child to be murdered. But if the only thing that's going to prevent that is a teacher with a gun, wouldn't you want there to be a teacher with a gun in your child's classroom?


I would not want my child going to a school which they know is so unsafe that they need people with guns to protect them.  Americans go on about their right to have guns but these people never think about kids right to have a childhood.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> After every school shooting the conversation, sooner or later, becomes a discussion of whether or not we should allow teachers to be armed.
> 
> I believe we should.
> 
> ...


Arm the teachers ?


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> Are you talking about not wanting armed police in Schools.  Living in the UK I find the idea of having people with guns prowling around schools horrendous.  I also hear the police can arrest the kids at school which was described as one of the stresses which increases these school shootings.  They need to be stopped.  I don't know how much different it is for kids being brought up in the US or being  brought up in a war zone.



Jewish schools in Britain all have heavily armed security…….they are doing fine………..


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I would not want my child going to a school which they know is so unsafe that they need people with guns to protect them.  Americans go on about their right to have guns but these people never think about kids right to have a childhood.


Like the girls your government allowed to be raped……was it over a thousand?

Why does your government allow Jewish schools to be under such threat that they have to have armed security at all times?

And don’t forget synagogues…..heavily armed security there too


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I would not want my child going to a school which they know is so unsafe that they need people with guns to protect them.  Americans go on about their right to have guns but these people never think about kids right to have a childhood.


Why not let the kids speak for themselves.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 19, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Actually it ISN'T necessary!  We can restrict guns dramatically and probably see a SIGNIFICANT decrease in these types of mass killings.
> 
> The only reason we are even THINKING this stupid, stupid thought is because we can't IMAGINE limiting guns.
> 
> ...


The problem isn't too many guns. 

The problem is that there is no one to stop a shooter once he enters a classroom full of kids.

To solve a problem you focus on the point of the problem, which in this case is the defenselessness of a room full of kids and their teacher. It has already been demonstrated that all the other security measures have failed, with horrific consequences.

If you asked a teacher what will happen once a shooter enters a classroom they must necessarily respond, "We will all die". What she or he is saying is that "It's better for my students and me to die than to defend ourselves by use of a gun."

The teacher also might be asked if when a shooter appears do they continue teaching the kids. In other words are they still _a teacher_, or are they_ victims_ waiting to killed? Wouldn't it be better if they assumed the role of_ defender_ of themselves and their students?


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I would not want my child going to a school which they know is so unsafe that they need people with guns to protect them.  Americans go on about their right to have guns but these people never think about kids right to have a childhood.



Was Robb Elementary School known to be unsafe? Not even a little bit. It's the kind of school that you, as a parent, would look at and say "Yeah, I'd send my kid here." And then some whackjob shows up with a gun and starts shooting.

Columbine High School wasn't known to be unsafe at all. Santana High School was one of the better high schools in San Diego County. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School had a reputation as a good school with relatively few problems. Yet, children at these schools were denied the right to _their _childhoods because of someone who went through their schools unchallenged.

A teacher with a gun may have been able to secure those children their childhoods...


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Arm the teachers ?



Feel free to explain why you think it's a bad idea...


----------



## alexa (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Was Robb Elementary School known to be unsafe? Not even a little bit. It's the kind of school that you, as a parent, would look at and say "Yeah, I'd send my kid here." And then some whackjob shows up with a gun and starts shooting.
> 
> Columbine High School wasn't know to be unsafe at all. Santana High School was one of the better high schools in San Diego County. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School had a reputation as a good school with relatively few problems. Yet, children at these schools were denied the right to _their _childhoods because of someone who went through their schools unchallenged.
> 
> A teacher with a gun may have been able to secure those children their childhoods...


I am not American and I can see you have a problem with guns and schools and I do understand that you cannot say this school is safe and this school is not.  We had one shooting in a school in Dunblane and that pretty much took all the guns away which weren't needed. No one would have expected that of Dunblane. I don't think there has been another since.

I just find it horrific that you have become a country where the shooting of children at school has become a norm.  I hope the people of the US act to change that and that that change is one that does not necessitate more and more guns interfering with the right of children to a safe and free childhood.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I am not American and I can see you have a problem with guns and schools and I do understand that you cannot say this school is safe and this school is not.  We had one shooting in a school in Dunblane and that pretty much took all the guns away which weren't needed. No one would have expected that of Dunblane. I don't think there has been another since.
> 
> I just find it horrific that you have become a country where the shooting of children at school has become a norm.  I hope the people of the US act to change that and that that change is one that does not necessitate more and more guns interfering with the right of children to a safe and free childhood.


It's not the norm. People shooting each other in the streets is the norm.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I am not American and I can see you have a problem with guns and schools and I do understand that you cannot say this school is safe and this school is not.  We had one shooting in a school in Dunblane and that pretty much took all the guns away which weren't needed. No one would have expected that of Dunblane. I don't think there has been another since.
> 
> I just find it horrific that you have become a country where the shooting of children at school has become a norm.  I hope the people of the US act to change that and that that change is one that does not necessitate more and more guns interfering with the right of children to a safe and free childhood.



It's estimated that over 80 million Americans own guns.

School shootings aren't the norm. People not exacting violence on anyone is the norm. School shootings are the anomaly...


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

Guns in the situation are like a smoke detector and sprinkler system.  You hope to hell you never need them, but should a fire happen your damn glad they are there.

Some being armed as a precaution shouldn't even be argued now.  Those who don't want a gun will not be forced to have them.  Those willing should be given Free training and MONEY....as an INCREASE IN PAY FOR IT.........And that would be the cheapest way to offer some sort of protection.

Doesn't mean we will know when the time comes it will win or lose...........but just the fact that schools have armed teachers will give a shooter pause to target it.

It's not rocket science............and it's not complicated........But the LEFT IS LOUD OVER IT..........

Because they Don't REALLY CARE ABOUT THOSE KIDS.........they want the guns..........and that is all they care about.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> It's estimated that over 80 million Americans own guns.
> 
> School shootings aren't the norm. People not exacting violence on anyone is the norm. School shootings are the anomaly...


We carried guns in our trucks to school a long time ago.  In Elementary school I stayed after for NRA training with guns........Was a Safety Training class and got to shoot BB's at first then 22 LR later...........We got awards and stuff and we didn't have what we have today.

The break down of the family, morals, ethics in this country is causing this.............and the fact the dollar is dying and our country is in decline.  We are now facing what brought down the USSR as our Reserver currency status will soon be over.................It will get worse.


----------



## alexa (Jun 19, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> It's not the norm. People shooting each other in the streets is the norm.





Canon Shooter said:


> It's estimated that over 80 million Americans own guns.
> 
> School shootings aren't the norm. People not exacting violence on anyone is the norm. School shootings are the anomaly...


I can see how you would think that living with it but from the outside one shooting is a shock but when they keep coming, police are brought into schools and then people want teachers to have guns as well because the idea of a gunman, woman or child coming into the school and killing people has become an accepted part of American life.  That is why I am calling it a norm and I think I am correct in that though I do accept it does not happen every day.  Every day however is a preparation in case it happens.  That is children's norm now.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I can see how you would think that living with it but from the outside one shooting is a shock but when they keep coming, police are brought into schools and then people want teachers to have guns as well because the idea of a gunman, woman or child coming into the school and killing people has become an accepted part of American life.  That is why I am calling it a norm and I think I am correct in that though I do accept it does not happen every day.  Every day however is a preparation in case it happens.  That is children's norm now.



It's not the norm. The fact of the matter is that a fraction of a percentage of American children will ever be affected by a school shooting.

You can think you're correct all you want, but you're not.

By the way, my daughter and I visited Edinburgh three years ago. Gorgeous country you have yourself there...


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I can see how you would think that living with it but from the outside one shooting is a shock but when they keep coming, police are brought into schools and then people want teachers to have guns as well because the idea of a gunman, woman or child coming into the school and killing people has become an accepted part of American life.  That is why I am calling it a norm and I think I am correct in that though I do accept it does not happen every day.  Every day however is a preparation in case it happens.  That is children's norm now.


With our population the chances that it happens in your school is minimal..........It's not that large.........it's just HYPED TO HELL AND BACK NOW..........

There are too many schools to turn them into fortress America ..............That is not feasible............so some simple training and a few armed in the schools is the ONLY VIABLE CHEAPEST SOLUTION............

Those few may be the difference between a slaughtered classroom or a dead shooter next time...........Each State and local community should decide this.  And fund it themselves.

I would have no problem locally even though my kids are no longer in school to pay for this in school.  Not MAKE THEM..........for the teachers to decide what simple measures they can deal with and think tank solutions......................That way we don't step on their toes.


----------



## Woodznutz (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I can see how you would think that living with it but from the outside one shooting is a shock but when they keep coming, police are brought into schools and then people want teachers to have guns as well because the idea of a gunman, woman or child coming into the school and killing people has become an accepted part of American life.  That is why I am calling it a norm and I think I am correct in that though I do accept it does not happen every day.  Every day however is a preparation in case it happens.  That is children's norm now.


 We have proven that a 'last line of defense' is needed. That would be an armed teacher in the classroom with the kids. The kids greatest fear is that no one will protect them, and sadly their teachers have confirmed this to them.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> The break down of the family, morals, ethics in this country is causing this.............and the fact the dollar is dying and our country is in decline.  We are now facing what brought down the USSR as our Reserver currency status will soon be over.................It will get worse.


The dollar will be fine.  The inflation was caused by Biden pushing too much stimulus during the pandemic.  The Federal Reserve will quickly get it back under control, although doing so will cost us a recession.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I am not American and I can see you have a problem with guns and schools and I do understand that you cannot say this school is safe and this school is not.  We had one shooting in a school in Dunblane and that pretty much took all the guns away which weren't needed. No one would have expected that of Dunblane. I don't think there has been another since.


Actually you did nothing to prevent massacres.  All you guys did was give up your freedom for no reason at all.




alexa said:


> I just find it horrific that you have become a country where the shooting of children at school has become a norm.  I hope the people of the US act to change that and that that change is one that does not necessitate more and more guns interfering with the right of children to a safe and free childhood.


No change that matches your description exists.  The only thing that will change it is more guns to protect the kids.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The dollar will be fine.  The inflation was caused by Biden pushing too much stimulus during the pandemic.  The Federal Reserve will quickly get it back under control, although doing so will cost us a recession.


Look at the back door of Russia.  They are now trading oil outside the dollar.  We will eventually lose the reserve currency status.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Look at the back door of Russia.  They are now trading oil outside the dollar.  We will eventually lose the reserve currency status.


Our reserve currency status has never depended on oil being traded using dollars.  That is just a silly conspiracy theory.


----------



## alexa (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> It's not the norm. The fact of the matter is that a fraction of a percentage of American children will ever be affected by a school shooting.
> 
> You can think you're correct all you want, but you're not.
> 
> By the way, my daughter and I visited Edinburgh three years ago. Gorgeous country you have yourself there...


If all schools have to go through this process then all schools are affected.  The kids know what it is for. They know all their childhood that they may be shot at school.  Do you never wonder what that makes them think of adults.


----------



## alexa (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> With our population the chances that it happens in your school is minimal..........It's not that large.........it's just HYPED TO HELL AND BACK NOW..........
> 
> There are too many schools to turn them into fortress America ..............That is not feasible............so some simple training and a few armed in the schools is the ONLY VIABLE CHEAPEST SOLUTION............
> 
> ...



Out of interest was your school like that.  I just think kids growing up knowing that it is necessary to have security in place to keep them safe is sad.  That you need to talk about slaughtered classrooms is sad.  I am glad my grand children do not have to go through that.  I have also heard it suggested that having police in schools is also not good for children particularly when they arrest them as you send children who have broken the law to prison.  If the cops were not in the school the kids could get over their mistake with a detention or something and get on with their lives.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I have also heard it suggested that having police in schools is also not good for children particularly when they arrest them as you send children who have broken the law to prison.  If the cops were not in the school the kids could get over their mistake with a detention or something and get on with their lives.


Perhaps private security like the armed security guards in banks.  I don't think they have arrest power (although I guess it's not a matter that I've looked into so I could be wrong).


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> If all schools have to go through this process then all schools are affected.



What "process" are you talking about?

There are over 97,000 public schools in the United States. The overwhelming majority will _never _be affected by gun violence...



alexa said:


> The kids know what it is for. They know all their childhood that they may be shot at school.  Do you never wonder what that makes them think of adults.



Well, it is what it is. Yes, we're a society where, sadly, nut-cases can get a hold of a gun and shoot up a school. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, though. To one degree or another, we will always be that society.

Now, you don't think we should arm teachers. Fair enough; I respect that your opinion differs from mine.

What would you suggest be done to combat someone walking through a school shooting at kids? What would _you _do?

You talked about your grandchildren. If a shooter stepped into your grandchild's classroom intent on killing everyone in the room, wouldn't you want your grandchild's teacher to be in a position to, eprhaps, save your grandchild's life?


----------



## alexa (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> What "process" are you talking about?
> 
> There are over 97,000 public schools in the United States. The overwhelming majority will _never _be affected by gun violence...



But do they not all have to go through the process of protecting themselves.  You or someone else pointed out you cannot tell who is going to be attacked.


Canon Shooter said:


> Well, it is what it is. Yes, we're a society where, sadly, nut-cases can get a hold of a gun and shoot up a school. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, though. To one degree or another, we will always be that society.


or you might change 



Canon Shooter said:


> Now, you don't think we should arm teachers. Fair enough; I respect that your opinion differs from mine.
> 
> What would you suggest be done to combat someone walking through a school shooting at kids? What would _you _do?



I would do something about what makes it so easy for them to do it and that is the guns.  I understand you needing them in the old days but now you have police.  Also in the old days you could not just move it about and several people fall down dead.  Obviously the other thing is to look at why people are choosing schools and see if something can be done there.


Canon Shooter said:


> You talked about your grandchildren. If a shooter stepped into your grandchild's classroom intent on killing everyone in the room, wouldn't you want your grandchild's teacher to be in a position to, eprhaps, save your grandchild's life?


Of course.  I just am glad they do not have the stress of any of that.  They never think someone would come to their school and kill them.  It could happen but it is soo unlikely they do not need to ever think about it.  There has not been a situation of copy cat school shooting here and it did come about with the change in guns laws so that very few people now have them.  Prior to that we had had several of these shootings of random people on the street. It was becoming not a surprise.  Then there was the Dunblane mass murder of primary school children, an almost immediate change in our gun laws, no more school shootings and the end of the random shootings in the street.  Well worth it to me.  We made the right choice.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> Out of interest was your school like that.  I just think kids growing up knowing that it is necessary to have security in place to keep them safe is sad.  That you need to talk about slaughtered classrooms is sad.  I am glad my grand children do not have to go through that.  I have also heard it suggested that having police in schools is also not good for children particularly when they arrest them as you send children who have broken the law to prison.  If the cops were not in the school the kids could get over their mistake with a detention or something and get on with their lives.


Long ago kids being trained safety on guns was normal here.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> But do they not all have to go through the process of protecting themselves.  You or someone else pointed out you cannot tell who is going to be attacked.



All schools take security measures, yes. I would be willing to bet my last nickel that they do that in Scotland, too...



alexa said:


> or you might change



I'm not sure what I would change. I haven't done anything...




alexa said:


> I would do something about what makes it so easy for them to do it and that is the guns.



What would you do?



alexa said:


> I understand you needing them in the old days but now you have police.



Seriously?

During the shooting in Texas, the police waited almost an hour to confront the shooter. 

An _hour_.

The only way the police can stop a school shooter is to already be on school grounds before the shooting starts, and you've already said you don't want the police in schools...



alexa said:


> Also in the old days you could not just move it about and several people fall down dead.  Obviously the other thing is to look at why people are choosing schools and see if something can be done there.



Because schools are soft targets. Schools are "gun free" zones. As such, someone who wakes up and decides to go on a shooting spree knows that the odds of him being thwarted are lowest at a school. If it was understood that teachers can be armed if they choose, it's likely fewer maniacs would choose schools as their target...




alexa said:


> Of course.



Okay, so no guns in the classroom unless a shooter enters _your _grandchild's classroom, is that right?

Got it.

It's hypocritical, but I got it...




alexa said:


> I just am glad they do not have the stress of any of that.  They never think someone would come to their school and kill them.  It could happen but it is soo unlikely they do not need to ever think about it.



It's also "soo unlikely" here, too. Again, there are over 97,000 public schools in the United States. We have over 3,000,000 public school teachers. That's more than half of your entire population. Imagine 3,000,000 people who are prepared and ready to defend someone's life...



alexa said:


> *There has not been a situation of copy cat school shooting here and it did come about*...



You're somewhat confusing here.

There has not been a case or there has been one?



alexa said:


> Prior to that we had had several of these shootings of random people on the street. It was becoming not a surprise.  Then there was the Dunblane mass murder of primary school children, an almost immediate change in our gun laws, no more school shootings and the end of the random shootings in the street.  Well worth it to me.  We made the right choice.



And that works for Scotland.

We have cities with larger poulations than Scotland. What is workable there may not be workable here. Gun confiscation in this country would lead to a civil war. It'll never happen...


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

alexa said:


> I would do something about what makes it so easy for them to do it and that is the guns.


That is incorrect.  Guns have nothing to do with it.  Massacre victims are just as dead if they are killed with some other kind of weapon.




alexa said:


> I understand you needing them in the old days


You are speaking from the perspective of a serf, which stands to reason because you are no longer free.  But free people don't have guns because we need them.  We have guns because we choose to have them.




alexa said:


> but now you have police.


The existence of police does not change the reality that people use guns for self defense.




alexa said:


> Also in the old days you could not just move it about and several people fall down dead.


Your suggestion that school shootings are carried out with full-auto weapons is completely untrue.  No school shooter has ever used a full-auto weapon.




alexa said:


> There has not been a situation of copy cat school shooting here and it did come about with the change in guns laws so that very few people now have them.


That is incorrect.  Giving up your freedom had nothing to do with it.  You guys gave up your freedom for nothing.




alexa said:


> Prior to that we had had several of these shootings of random people on the street. It was becoming not a surprise.  Then there was the Dunblane mass murder of primary school children, an almost immediate change in our gun laws, no more school shootings and the end of the random shootings in the street.


That is incorrect.  The number of random killings in your country was not reduced by your loss of freedom.




alexa said:


> Well worth it to me.  We made the right choice.


If you are happy to no longer be free, that is your business.  I'll leave you to it.

But do note that America will *never* give up our freedom.


----------



## citygator (Jun 19, 2022)

2aguy said:


> 40 people were murdered, businesses were burned and looted for 7 months…..police statins were burned and gutted, police were wounded, court houses were burned
> 
> 2 billion dollars in damage to black and other minority owned businesses
> 
> They weren’t “mostly peaceful.”


Yes they were.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> Yes they were.


Then so were the January 6 protests.


----------



## citygator (Jun 19, 2022)

2aguy said:


> There was no murder….a drug addict with a cocktail of illegal guns with 3 clogged arteries died of his life choices…..he was
> Dead before the cops showed up, he just hadn’t stopped moving


Your absolute lunacy is why there is no hope for America. i suspect you're likely an angry incel.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> Your absolute lunacy is why there is no hope for America. i suspect you're likely an angry incel.


I notice that you are offering lots of name-calling, but no facts or logic to support your position.


----------



## citygator (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Then so were the January 6 protests.


Protest all you want. If violent you will be prosecuted for your transgressions just like any protest. However, try to interrupt the peaceful transition of power for the US and you should be shot as a traitor.


----------



## citygator (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I notice that you are offering lots of name-calling, but no facts or logic to support your position.


I’m not dignifying his response that the Floyd case was suicide. Fuck off. You want to debate issues?  Great, no issues but that crap isn’t welcome.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> However, try to interrupt the peaceful transition of power for the US and you should be shot as a traitor.


The left often forgets that America is not the tyranny that the left wishes it was.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> I’m not dignifying his response that the Floyd case was suicide.


I don't think he said it was a suicide.  It's more that he was saying the guy was due for a heart attack at any moment.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Feel free to explain why you think it's a bad idea...


Your car has an alternator (gun culture), it's broken. So the battery goes flat and suffers (injuries and deaths). So the solution proposed is to fix the battery. So the battery goes flat and suffers (injuries and and deaths). The proposed solution is to fix the battery.........

But why not fix the problem, the alternator (gun culture). There's nothing wrong with the battery (innocent people), they're suffering from a faulty alternator. They want the garage (government) to fix the alternator (gun culture).

I hope that was in simple enough terms.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Long ago kids being trained safety on guns was normal here.


Reality has shown it didn't work


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Reality has shown it didn't work


How so.  This shit didn't happen back then.  It's the new breed of brain washed kids doing this crap.  Not us.

Fail bro.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> How so.  This shit didn't happen back then.  It's the new breed of brain washed kids doing this crap.  Not us.
> 
> Fail bro.


I was reading up on mass shootings in American history, I think you can  go back to July 26, 1764, and possibly before.

Although none died, several kids in the playground were filled with lead from an old guys shotgun on April 10, 1891. There's hundreds throughout the ages since then, Wikipedia can't keep up.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Your car has an alternator (gun culture), it's broken.


Except it isn't broken.




Captain Caveman said:


> So the battery goes flat and suffers (injuries and deaths).


Nothing to do with guns or gun culture.




Captain Caveman said:


> But why not fix the problem, the alternator (gun culture).


Because it isn't the problem.

And because we value our freedom so much that we'd choose freedom even if it actually had been the problem.




Captain Caveman said:


> There's nothing wrong with the battery (innocent people), they're suffering from a faulty alternator. They want the garage (government) to fix the alternator (gun culture).


They aren't innocent, or suffering.  They merely enjoy violating people's civil liberties and want to continue doing so.




Captain Caveman said:


> Reality has shown it didn't work


Reality shows no such thing.




Captain Caveman said:


> I was reading up on mass shootings in American history, I think you can  go back to July 26, 1764, and possibly before.
> Allow none died, several kids in the playground were filled with lead from an old guys shotgun on April 10, 1891. There's hundreds throughout the ages since then, Wikipedia can't keep up.


They'd be just as dead if they were murdered with some other kind of weapon.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Your car has an alternator (gun culture), it's broken. So the battery goes flat and suffers (injuries and deaths). So the solution proposed is to fix the battery. So the battery goes flat and suffers (injuries and and deaths). The proposed solution is to fix the battery.........
> 
> But why not fix the problem, the alternator (gun culture). There's nothing wrong with the battery (innocent people), they're suffering from a faulty alternator. They want the garage (government) to fix the alternator (gun culture).
> 
> I hope that was in simple enough terms.



It was, but it was a ridiculously stupid analogy...


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> It was, but it was a ridiculously stupid analogy...


I didn't mind the analogy itself.  But the underlying claims were flatly untrue.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I didn't mind the analogy itself.  But the underlying claims were flatly untrue.



The suggestion that, if you can fix a car we should be able to fix our gun violence problem, is what I found ludicrous...


----------



## flan327 (Jun 19, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Baaaaaaah-baaah.


Brain dead


----------



## flan327 (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> Protest all you want. If violent you will be prosecuted for your transgressions just like any protest. However, try to interrupt the peaceful transition of power for the US and you should be shot as a traitor.


So no DUE PROCESS?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Except it isn't broken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go grab a dictionary and look up the word, "Analogy"

If someone believes gun culture is tickety boo in America, the words "nuts" is apt.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> Protest all you want. If violent you will be prosecuted for your transgressions just like any protest. However, try to interrupt the peaceful transition of power for the US and you should be shot as a traitor.



Unless you are a democrat party brownshirt, blm or antifa...then you will be bailed out by the Vice President of the U.S....kamala...


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> It was, but it was a ridiculously stupid analogy...


It hit the nail on the head. Fix the problem, the gun culture.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> It hit the nail on the head. Fix the problem, the gun culture.




No...we need to fix the democrat party, the party creating the gun violence.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> It hit the nail on the head. Fix the problem, the gun culture.



It was stupid.

It's like saying you can fix your alternator problem by buying a Tesla...


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No...we need to fix the democrat party, the party creating the gun violence.


You need to fix the gun culture, that's the problem.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> It was stupid.
> 
> It's like saying you can fix your alternator problem by buying a Tesla...


I agree, you would have fixed the alternator (gun culture) by changing it to a Tesla (changing the culture, done away with the faulty culture).


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You need to fix the gun culture, that's the problem.


Mentally ill people are the problem.  Guns don't shoot themselves. 

And you forget a wacko just driving over people in a Christmas parade who didn't have a gun.  You are nothing more than a gun grabber pretending to be reasonable.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Mentally ill people are the problem.  Guns don't shoot themselves.
> 
> And you forget a wacko just driving over people in a Christmas parade who didn't have a gun.  You are nothing more than a gun grabber pretending to be reasonable.


Mental illness only covers about 3% of shootings, studies have found that those that are mentally ill are suffer more from gun violence.

Best thing to do is, before posting an opinion or hunch, do some research first. I know you need to defend an agenda, but.........


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Mental illness only covers about 3% of shootings, studies have found that those that are mentally ill are suffer more from gun violence.
> 
> Best thing to do is, before posting an opinion or hunch, do some research first. I know you need to defend an agenda, but.........


Almost all mass shooters are mentally ill.  Try again.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jun 19, 2022)

flan327 said:


> Brain dead


Oh, are you still here?  If you had half a brain you'd have skulked off into a corner to wallow in embarrassment.

But whatever gets you out of bed and bellied up to the keyboard with your Krispy Kremes and a bag of Cheetos, right?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Go grab a dictionary and look up the word, "Analogy"


I understood your analogy.

Your claims are all factually wrong.




Captain Caveman said:


> If someone believes gun culture is tickety boo in America, the words "nuts" is apt.


Not when our gun culture is perfectly fine.

We're not going to give up our freedom no matter how much you complain about it.




Captain Caveman said:


> It hit the nail on the head. Fix the problem, the gun culture.


Our gun culture is not a problem.




Captain Caveman said:


> You need to fix the gun culture, that's the problem.


Wrong.  There is no problem whatsoever with our gun culture.

We're going to keep our freedom no matter how much you don't like it.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> You are nothing more than a gun grabber pretending to be reasonable.


I must have missed his pretend reasonableness.  To me, anti-freedom posts are 100% unreasonable.


----------



## citygator (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> The left often forgets that America is not the tyranny that the left wishes it was.


The left… you speak of it like it’s some unified entity. You guys are nuts.  Jan 6 was an attempt to overthrow the peaceful transition of power because, you know, boat rallies and Trump flag wavers means 81M Americans weren’t disgusted by Trump and everything his supporters stand for: pettiness, cruelty, divisiveness, pessimism, and above all else hypocrisy. I hope there’s a God so you jack asses have to explain yourselves.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Mental illness only covers about 3% of shootings, studies have found that those that are mentally ill are suffer more from gun violence.


Most mass shooters do not have a serious mental illness like schizophrenia.  And people with serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia are indeed much more likely to be victims and not perpetrators.

But... most mass shooters do suffer from a lot of problems that psychiatric help could sort out for them.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> The left… you speak of it like it’s some unified entity.


One intolerant leftist is much the same as another.




citygator said:


> Jan 6 was an attempt to overthrow the peaceful transition of power


Nonsense.  The protests were never any threat to Biden's assumption of office on January 20th.  The left are all wannabe tyrants who try to crush anyone who questions them.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 19, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys never seem to have an "original" come-back.  Is it because you lack education or you're just really slow?


Both.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 19, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Actually it ISN'T necessary!  We can restrict guns dramatically and probably see a SIGNIFICANT decrease in these types of mass killings.
> 
> The only reason we are even THINKING this stupid, stupid thought is because we can't IMAGINE limiting guns.
> 
> ...


Not ‘we’ – it’s conservatives who advocate for such stupidity.

And conservatives advocate for such stupidity because they lack the courage and honesty to address and do something about mass shootings having nothing to do with the regulation of firearms.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Hardly.  It would put an end to school massacres.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another conservative who knows nothing about shooting handguns.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Another conservative who knows nothing about shooting handguns.


I know more about shooting handguns than you know about everything in the universe.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 19, 2022)

citygator said:


> 500 people every year die from accidental shootings. Let’s put guns in the hands of amateurs around kids. Amazing idea.


Obviously before a teacher was allowed to carry a handgun there would be a training requirement that would involve gun safety as well as tactics to be used if there was a shooter in the school.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 19, 2022)

braalian said:


> Allow teachers who are already responsible gun owners to be armed at school if they so choose. But arming all teachers as policy is a bad idea.


Many male high school students could overpower a female teacher to obtain the weapon she was carrying. That’s why requiring all teachers to carry would be a bad idea. The students would know the teacher was armed. 

Overpower the teacher. Take her pistol. Shoot classmates. 

Let the male Phys-ed teacher or the big janitor pack heat with training.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Many male high school students could overpower a female teacher to obtain the weapon she was carrying. That’s why requiring all teachers to carry would be a bad idea. The students would know the teacher was armed.


I favor a rifle in a gun safe inside the classroom.  Students will not be able to get the gun from the safe.  The rifle will be much better than a handgun if some psycho tries to shoot up the school.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jun 19, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Not ‘we’ – it’s conservatives who advocate for such stupidity.
> 
> And conservatives advocate for such stupidity because they lack the courage and honesty to address and do something about mass shootings having nothing to do with the regulation of firearms.


aka........they will not give up guns like we want.


----------



## Batcat (Jun 19, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I favor a rifle in a gun safe inside the classroom.  Students will not be able to get the gun from the safe.  The rifle will be much better than a handgun if some psycho tries to shoot up the school.


An AR-15 might be the perfect weapon in that situation. Low recoil, 30 round magazine, light weight. Wall penetration might pose a problem. Specialized fragmenting ammo could be developed but the shooter could be wearing a vest. So the first few round could fragment and the next rounds standard.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 19, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> aka........they will not give up guns like we want.


Your post is perfect.  Bravo!


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 20, 2022)

eagle1462010 said:


> Almost all mass shooters are mentally ill.  Try again.


Not according to your stats. Also, it's well known that symptoms of mental illness by themselves rarely cause violent behaviour.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 20, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I understood your analogy.
> 
> Your claims are all factually wrong.
> 
> ...


Hears another one. In a brick house, you have rising damp. So you rub the inside plaster down and paint it. The damp problem comes back through. So you replaster and paint it. The damp eventually comes back through. So you foil line it, lining paper it, and then paint it. Eventually the damp comes back through.

Why not fix the cause, the damp proof course (gun culture).

Just start fixing the gun culture, and incidents will reduce. It's not rocket science.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 20, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Most mass shooters do not have a serious mental illness like schizophrenia.  And people with serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia are indeed much more likely to be victims and not perpetrators.
> 
> But... most mass shooters do suffer from a lot of problems that psychiatric help could sort out for them.


Did you know that 0.5% of homicides in the US were due to indiscriminate shooting in public places, yet 71% (that includes you) fear mass shootings because they believe mental illness as the simplified explanation.

I know you didn't, but I thought I would start it by saying, "Did you know".

That's why you don't know who will do what.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 20, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Why not fix the cause, the damp proof course (gun culture).


Because gun culture is not the cause of massacres.

And because our guns are more important than saving lives even if they actually had been the cause of massacres.




Captain Caveman said:


> Just start fixing the gun culture,


It's not broken.




Captain Caveman said:


> and incidents will reduce.


Massacres won't reduce, because gun culture has nothing to do with massacres.

All you would achieve is having people be massacred using a different kind of weapon.




Captain Caveman said:


> It's not rocket science.


Your claims however are completely untrue.




Captain Caveman said:


> Did you know that 0.5% of homicides in the US were due to indiscriminate shooting in public places,


I knew the number was pretty small.  I never cared enough to learn the exact number.

I'm sure you looked up reliable data, but don't expect me to remember it.




Captain Caveman said:


> yet 71% (that includes you) fear mass shootings because they believe mental illness as the simplified explanation.


No.  People fear mass shootings because they don't want to be killed.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 20, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Because gun culture is not the cause of massacres.
> 
> And because our guns are more important than saving lives even if they actually had been the cause of massacres.
> 
> ...


The problem in America is it's gun culture, and the gun nuts want to fix everything that suffers from it.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 20, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The problem in America is it's gun culture, and the gun nuts want to fix everything that suffers from it.


Only Freedom Haters think that our gun culture is a problem.

It's certainly no problem for people who don't hate freedom.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 20, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Only Freedom Haters think that our gun culture is a problem.
> 
> It's certainly no problem for people who don't hate freedom.


I'm not aware of any freedom haters, I only know of freedom retards that think it's to do with a gun.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 20, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I'm not aware of any freedom haters,


Look in the mirror.




Captain Caveman said:


> I only know of freedom retards that think it's to do with a gun.


You engage in childish name-calling because you can't defend your demented ideology with facts or logic.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 20, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Look in the mirror.
> 
> 
> 
> You engage in childish name-calling because you can't defend your demented ideology with facts or logic.


No, I just copy 2aguy. I hoped you looked in the mirror too.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 20, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> I hoped you looked in the mirror too.


When I look in the mirror I see someone who speaks out in defense of freedom and civil liberties.

It's a good feeling knowing that I am one of the good guys.


----------



## ding (Jun 20, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> We can restrict guns dramatically


You mean like a ban and a confiscation?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> You mean like a ban and a confiscation?



Catastrophize much?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It's a good feeling knowing that I am one of the good guys.



"THANKS!"


----------



## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Catastrophize much?


You said, we can restrict guns dramatically, right?  My asking you the question "you mean like a ban and a confiscation" seemed like an appropriate question to ask.  So... are you going to answer it or not?


----------



## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> "THANKS!"


How many times are you going to feast upon their dead bodies to serve your political agenda?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


>


Is there anything good on TV tonight?

I hear that more episodes of Wisting will be up on AMC+ next week.  But this is still this week.

I can't wait for fall and a new season of Asimov's Foundation, plus the launch of the Lord of the Rings series set in the second age when the rings were being crafted.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> Is there anything good on TV tonight?
> 
> I hear that more episodes of Wisting will be up on AMC+ next week.  But this is still this week.
> 
> I can't wait for fall and a new season of Asimov's Foundation, plus the launch of the Lord of the Rings series set in the second age when the rings were being crafted.



Wow.  It is not unlike conversing with Oscar Wilde himself!


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> How many times are you going to feast upon their dead bodies to serve your political agenda?



UNTIL YOU ALL CHOKE.

Is that good enough?  Until you guys get TIRED of seeing dead kids.  *Until you gun enthusiasts grow something akin to human compassion.*


----------



## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> UNTIL YOU ALL CHOKE.
> 
> Is that good enough?  Until you guys get TIRED of seeing dead kids.  *Until you gun enthusiasts grow something akin to human compassion.*


Pretty sure your soul will rot before mine.  I'm not using their deaths for political agendas.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 21, 2022)

citygator said:


> The left… you speak of it like it’s some unified entity. You guys are nuts.  Jan 6 was an attempt to overthrow the peaceful transition of power because, you know, boat rallies and Trump flag wavers means 81M Americans weren’t disgusted by Trump and everything his supporters stand for: pettiness, cruelty, divisiveness, pessimism, and above all else hypocrisy. I hope there’s a God so you jack asses have to explain yourselves.




It is funny the way you guys pretend Jan. 6 was an actual thing.........

Yeah...I'll see you there and we'll see how things turn out......


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> UNTIL YOU ALL CHOKE.
> 
> Is that good enough?  Until you guys get TIRED of seeing dead kids.  *Until you gun enthusiasts grow something akin to human compassion.*




Says the guy who supports the democrat party, the political party that releases violent killers into black neighborhoods so they can murder young black men in their thousands.......


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Wow.  It is not unlike conversing with Oscar Wilde himself!


You didn't answer my question.  Is there anything good on TV tonight?




Cardinal Carminative said:


> UNTIL YOU ALL CHOKE.
> Is that good enough?  Until you guys get TIRED of seeing dead kids.


I'm a bit tired of your pointless nonsense posts already.  It would be far more interesting if you posted something worthwhile.

Like information on anything that is good on TV tonight.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> *Until you gun enthusiasts grow something akin to human compassion.*


We already have compassion.  It is you who lacks compassion.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Pretty sure your soul will rot before mine.  I'm not using their deaths for political agendas.



...no, what you are doing is far worse:  you are simply staring at the bodies and shrugging.

You are part of the problem until you start to CARE about those kids whose bodies were SO MANGLED by the Uvalde shooter's guns *that they had to be identified by DNA*.  Their faces were DESTROYED AND THEY COULDN'T BE IDENTIFIED.

Until you lot take that shit SERIOUSLY you will have to watch it.  You will have to look.  If I had it my way we'd have post mortem pictures in the newspapers.

*JUST TO MAKE YOU GUYS LOOK AT WHAT YOUR HOBBY DOES.*

I know you guys are all too tough to care, but not everyone is like that.  The more horrors that guns bring that are shown the less time your lot has to enjoy your guns.


Here's the biggest question:  How can you look at all those kids and feel NOTHING???  *WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?*


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> You didn't answer my question.  Is there anything good on TV tonight?



I don't know.  I don't watch your kind of TV.  I have taste.



Open Bolt said:


> I'm a bit tired of your pointless nonsense posts already.  It would be far more interesting if you posted something worthwhile.



Dead kids getting boring?



Open Bolt said:


> We already have compassion.  It is you who lacks compassion.



Just saying it doesn't make it so.

Now let's look at some more dead kids your hobby has helped provide:






You like that?  Yeah?  Do you?


----------



## The Sage of Main Street (Jun 21, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Your car has an alternator (gun culture), it's broken. So the battery goes flat and suffers (injuries and deaths). So the solution proposed is to fix the battery. So the battery goes flat and suffers (injuries and and deaths). The proposed solution is to fix the battery.........
> 
> But why not fix the problem, the alternator (gun culture). There's nothing wrong with the battery (innocent people), they're suffering from a faulty alternator. They want the garage (government) to fix the alternator (gun culture).
> 
> I hope that was in simple enough terms.


*Don't Let These Elevated Retards Define What the Problem Is*

Despite the media's simple-minded obsession and their opponents being thereby tricked into defending gun rights, which illogically affirms that as the issue, these psycho thrill-killers have no relation to "gun culture."  It is both our degenerate sicko entertainment culture and tolerance for the weirdos who have been mutated by it that lead to these unprecedented mass murders of helpless innocents.

The sissy pearl-clutching attitude towards bullying freaks (as exemplified by the disgusting and dangerous movie _Joker) _strengthens a weirdo's ego, whereas a normal and protective culture would harass him mercilessly and cripple his strange sense of self-identity.

 He easily sees signs everywhere in the Death Wish putrid culture that he is acceptable.  He proudly follows through on his vicious urges.  A stable, sane, and restrictive culture would numb those urges and de-activate such subhuman killing machines


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

The Sage of Main Street said:


> *Don't Let These Elevated Retards Define What the Problem Is*



You're classy.



The Sage of Main Street said:


> Despite the media's simple-minded obsession and their opponents being thereby tricked into defending gun rights, which illogically affirms that as the issue, these psycho thrill-killers have no relation to "gun culture."  It is both our degenerate sicko entertainment culture and tolerance for the weirdos who have been mutated by it that lead to these unprecedented mass murders of helpless innocents.
> 
> The sissy pearl-clutching attitude towards bullying freaks (as exemplified by the disgusting and dangerous movie _Joker) _strengthens a weirdo's ego, whereas a normal and protective culture would harass him mercilessly and cripple his strange sense of self-identity.



Are you really making a case in FAVOR of bullying?????



The Sage of Main Street said:


> He easily sees signs everywhere in the Death Wish putrid culture that he is acceptable.  He proudly follows through on his vicious urges.  A stable, sane, and restrictive culture would numb those urges and de-activate such subhuman killing machines



At the very least it wouldn't ARM THEM.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ...no, what you are doing is far worse:  you are simply staring at the bodies and shrugging.


I can offer to piss on the corpses if you like.  Then you can display some histrionics and pretend to be outraged.

Do note though that progressive phony outrage is subject to ridicule.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You are part of the problem until you start to CARE about those kids


Spare us the hypocrisy.  You are a poser who is only pretending to CARE.

If you actually CARED you would be willing to burn down your own home as a statement showing how much you CARE.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> JUST TO MAKE YOU GUYS LOOK AT WHAT YOUR HOBBY DOES.


Now you're just lying.  Our hobby has nothing to do with it.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Here's the biggest question:  How can you look at all those kids and feel NOTHING???


We're just not into virtue signaling.  And we're not phonies who pretend to CARE like you do.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I don't know.  I don't watch your kind of TV.


What kind of TV shows do you like?




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I have taste.


No you don't.  If you did you'd be interested in quality TV.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Dead kids getting boring?


Irrelevant posts like that are often boring.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Just saying it doesn't make it so.


The nice thing about reality is the fact that it doesn't have to be "made true".

I do not have to make it true that you are a fake who doesn't actually CARE.

You _are_ a fake who doesn't actually CARE.

If you CARED you would already have burned down your house as a statement to demonstrate how much you CARE.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Now let's look at some more dead kids your hobby has helped provide:


Another lie on your part.  My hobby has nothing to do with it.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You like that?  Yeah?  Do you?


What I'd like is some quality TV recommendations for tonight.


----------



## westwall (Jun 21, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> I think that arming teachers is a bad idea.  However; if a teacher is properly trained and willing, I don't have a problem with it.
> 
> In My opinion, we need to harden our schools, in much the same way we harden all the other things we value in this society.  Banks, Political Power, Courthouses, Airports.
> 
> ...





How about we do all of the above.  Harden the schools, and allow those teachers who wish to be armed, be armed.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I can offer to piss on the corpses if you like.  Then you can display some histrionics and pretend to be outraged.



I think you are doing just fine!



Open Bolt said:


> Do note though that progressive phony outrage is subject to ridicule.



I guess we'll have to see how "phony" it is.



Open Bolt said:


> Spare us the hypocrisy.  You are a poser who is only pretending to CARE.



You can always hope.  *At least I care enough to remember the dead.  You have to run away from their memory.*



Open Bolt said:


> If you actually CARED you would be willing to burn down your own home as a statement showing how much you CARE.



Is this a meaningful sentence or did you use auto-complete?



Open Bolt said:


> Now you're just lying.  Our hobby has nothing to do with it.



Now you're just lying.



Open Bolt said:


> We're just not into virtue signaling.



Or basic human compassion, it seems.



Open Bolt said:


> And we're not phonies who pretend to CARE like you do.



Yup.  You are not phony.  You just don't care.

Want some more dead people?







Enjoy!


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> What kind of TV shows do you like?



Anything that makes fun of trailer trash like you.



Open Bolt said:


> Irrelevant posts like that are often boring.



You mean like the one where you asked about TV Shows?



Open Bolt said:


> What I'd like is some quality TV recommendations for tonight.



I'm sure there's a Kardashian something or other on there for dimbulbs.  Enjoy!


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ...no, what you are doing is far worse:  you are simply staring at the bodies and shrugging.
> 
> You are part of the problem until you start to CARE about those kids whose bodies were SO MANGLED by the Uvalde shooter's guns *that they had to be identified by DNA*.  Their faces were DESTROYED AND THEY COULDN'T BE IDENTIFIED.
> 
> ...




You guys.......the bodies were damaged because the cops refused to go in....had they gone in immediately, he might have been stopped.....the government gave him 90 minutes to mutilate the bodies....you dumb ass.

Guns are not a hobby, you dumb ass.....they keep actual criminals like that mass shooter from hurting innocent people...like the woman in West Virginia, in the exact same week, who used her legal, concealed carry pistol to actually stop a mass public shooter who was also armed with an AR-15...

She and her gun stopped him, unlike the government at Uvalde....


----------



## westwall (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Anything that makes fun of trailer trash like you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





You are more likely to watch the Kardashian clown show than us.

We actually do stuff.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I think you are doing just fine!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You only use the dead...you don't care about them....

I care about those kids, and I care about the 1.1 million Americans who use their guns to save lives every year....lives saved from brutal rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, and yes, even mass public shooters....

You don't have their pictures because a majority of them stopped the attack...the victims were saved with their legal guns.....

You also don't see the hundreds of millions of people murdered by their governments.....you don't have their photos because you don't care about those dead...


----------



## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> ...no, what you are doing is far worse: you are simply staring at the bodies and shrugging.


Hardly.  I tolerate their deaths no differently than you do.  You won't even admit you want to ban and confiscate guns.  How else will you save ALL of the children unless you ban and confiscate guns?  In fact, according to you there is an acceptable rate of gun deaths you will tolerate before you will ban and confiscate guns.  You're a monster.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Hardly.  I tolerate their deaths no differently than you do.



I'm guessing that is not 100% true.



ding said:


> You won't even admit you want to ban and confiscate guns.



Because we might be able to fix some of the problems by simply restricting.  




ding said:


> How else will you save ALL of the children unless you ban and confiscate guns?



And here's where we see the "opaque point" you kept trying to go after, but because I KNEW you were going to try to twist my words I didn't respond directly to it.  Now you just go ahead and LIE about my posts.  LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO.

Just stop lying.  



ding said:


> In fact, according to you there is an acceptable rate of gun deaths you will tolerate before you will ban and confiscate guns.  You're a monster.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> You're a monster.



At least I'm not you.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

westwall said:


> You are more likely to watch the Kardashian clown show than us.


Unfortunately he can only recommend what he himself thinks is good.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I guess we'll have to see how "phony" it is.


Progressive outrage is 100% phony.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You can always hope.


No.  You really are a poser who is only pretending to CARE.

Someone who really CARED would be willing to burn down his home to make a statement demonstrating how much he CARED.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> At least I care enough to remember the dead.


Fake.

Someone who CARED for real would burn down their home to make a statement showing the world just how much they really CARE.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You have to run away from their memory.


That's a lie.  I am perfectly willing to piss on their corpses.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Is this a meaningful sentence or did you use auto-complete?


It is a meaningful sentence.  If you are unable to understand it that is due to your own deficiencies.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Now you're just lying.


Nope.  You are the only one here who is lying.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Or basic human compassion, it seems.


Says the phony who won't even burn down his home to make a statement about how much he CARES.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Yup.  You are not phony.  You just don't care.


Hey you finally got something right.  Bravo!

If you do it again today you will be as accurate as a broken clock.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I'm sure there's a Kardashian something or other on there for dimbulbs.  Enjoy!


I guess that's what I get for asking a dimbulb for TV recommendations.

Unfortunately I'm not interested in your sort of TV.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Anything that makes fun of trailer trash like you.


I live in a nicer house than you do.

And you are the one who just recommended the Kardashians as good TV.  Don't go projecting your trashiness on me.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Want some more dead people?


No.  I want some good TV recommendations for tonight.  But not from a tasteless rube like you.


----------



## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> At least I'm not you.


You are as long as there is an acceptable level of gun violence you will tolerate before you call for banning and confiscating guns.


----------



## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Because we might be able to fix some of the problems by simply restricting.


Whatever might that mean?


Cardinal Carminative said:


> I'm guessing that is not 100% true.


It is as long as there is an acceptable level of gun violence you will tolerate before you call for banning and confiscating guns.


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Whatever might that mean?


I was mildly curious about that too.  Although due to his name-calling I decided not to bother asking.  It'll be interesting to see if he actually answers you.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> You are as long as there is an acceptable level of gun violence you will tolerate before you call for banning and confiscating guns.



What is your acceptable level of gun violence?  Is it all good for you now?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Whatever might that mean?



IT MEANS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO JUST BAN AND CONFISCATE.

Are you really this stupid in real life?  WHO DRESSES YOU?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> That's a lie.  I am perfectly willing to piss on their corpses.



You want to piss on the corpses of innocent children who were gunned down in an elementary school?

Are you sure you want to be "that guy"?


----------



## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> IT MEANS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO JUST BAN AND CONFISCATE.


I knew you wouldn't answer.  You don't actually have an answer to his question.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Are you sure you want to be "that guy"?


Of course I'm sure.  I _am_ that guy.

Remember that progressive phony outrage will be mocked.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I knew you wouldn't answer.



It's either a free fire range with you guys or it's banning!  You can't imagine a world where there's significant oversight but you still have your precious, precious guns.  There's a lot of middle ground.



Open Bolt said:


> You don't actually have an answer to his question.



I do.  And I"ve presented it a number of times.  I can't help you guys to actually be "honest" for a change.





Open Bolt said:


> I am perfectly willing to piss on their corpses.



Then get to pissin'.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> There's a lot of middle ground.


No there isn't.  If there was, you could have described your proposal.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I do.


Your failure to even try to describe your proposal says that you don't.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> And I"ve presented it a number of times.


Link to one of these alleged presentations of yours then.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I can't help you guys to actually be "honest" for a change.


You're the one who is not being honest here.


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## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I was mildly curious about that too.  Although due to his name-calling I decided not to bother asking.  It'll be interesting to see if he actually answers you.


She.  He's a she.

I don't believe she can help herself.  She has an external locus of control.  She can't control her behavior.


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## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> What is your acceptable level of gun violence?  Is it all good for you now?


Zero.  That's why we have laws against it.


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## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> IT MEANS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO JUST BAN AND CONFISCATE.
> 
> Are you really this stupid in real life?  WHO DRESSES YOU?


So what are the options to "drastically restrict" (your words from another thread) guns?


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> Zero.  That's why we have laws against it.



So what do you propose we do given that you are NOT at zero and we DO have laws.

Sounds like you have a pretty serious problem.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

ding said:


> So what are the options to "drastically restrict" (your words from another thread) guns?



I'd take yours away from you.  Just based on IQ testing alone.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> So what do you propose we do


You're the one who says they already have a proposal.

What's this mythical proposal then?




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I'd take yours away from you.  Just based on IQ testing alone.


Given your posts I'd say you shouldn't be too cocky about IQ scores.

I guess your claim that you aren't out to take away people's guns is just so much BS.


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## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> So what do you propose we do given that you are NOT at zero and we DO have laws.
> 
> Sounds like you have a pretty serious problem.


Why?  Because some crazy person decided to commit a horrific one off crime.  I hear that gun violence is out of control.  Funny thing is that I've never personally witnessed any of this out of control gun violence.  Have you?


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## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I'd take yours away from you.  Just based on IQ testing alone.


I am 100% certain that you wouldn't.  You aren't the type of person who actually produces results.  You have an external locus of control.  Fortune 500 companies have interviewing techniques specifically designed to weed out people like you.


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## ding (Jun 21, 2022)

There's actually a simple solution.  Have the police do their job faster.


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## Darkwind (Jun 21, 2022)

westwall said:


> How about we do all of the above.  Harden the schools, and allow those teachers who wish to be armed, be armed.


I have no problem with it.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 21, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> You're the one who says they already have a proposal.



So you got nothing?  You are excused from the conversation then. 



Open Bolt said:


> What's this mythical proposal then?



Read.



Open Bolt said:


> Given your posts I'd say you shouldn't be too cocky about IQ scores.



I've interacted with that poster before.  



Open Bolt said:


> I guess your claim that you aren't out to take away people's guns is just so much BS.



I honestly don't care one way or the other what happens to you and your guns.  I hope they get taken (especially from the choads on THIS forum) but I'm willing just to have much more oversight.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 21, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> So you got nothing?


I'm not the one who talked about "restricting" and then refused to explain what that means.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> You are excused from the conversation then.


I am still here, and am still waiting for an explanation of what "restricting" means.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Read.


You have to post what it means before I can read about it.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> I hope they get taken (especially from the choads on THIS forum)


All progressives are like that.  The only real reason for gun control is because progressives think it is fun to violate people's civil liberties.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> but I'm willing just to have much more oversight.


I'm guessing you also wont explain what "much more oversight" means.


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## ding (Jun 22, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> I'm guessing you also wont explain what "much more oversight" means.


Of course she won't.  She's a political activist troll.  Long on emotion, short on facts and details.


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## ding (Jun 22, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I honestly don't care one way or the other what happens to you and your guns.


That's a lie.  You care a great deal.  So much so that it clouds your ability to reason.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 22, 2022)

ding said:


> Why?  Because some crazy person decided to commit a horrific one off crime.  I hear that gun violence is out of control.  Funny thing is that I've never personally witnessed any of this out of control gun violence.  Have you?



Actually I haven't.  Which is kind of why I am dubious about the MANY posters on here who claim they need guns for "self defense".  

Somehow America is a crime-infested gang-battleground requiring we all be armed and vigilant while simultaneously also the greatests most freeest bestest country on earth for all living creatures.

In all seriousness this is where I sit with respect to guns.  Guns are a great tool.  Hunting is a legitimate and valuable sport and there's even a role for guns in self-defense.  The key is that there is no real need for us to have so many guns that literally every man, woman and child can have a gun maybe 2.  That's the problem.  We've developed a fucked up relationship with guns in no small part because some gun enthusiasts spend all day screaming about the horrors of OTHER PEOPLE and our society has decided that the ONLY way to solve ANY conflict is with a gun that we've become pathological with regards to guns.

We actually could be a fine country with people having access to guns.  But we could do with a LOT more oversight of those guns.  And it should be a bit harder to get guns.  Maybe even a lot harder.

We have to do a reset with our relationship to guns.

Now I also know a lot of folks on here see nothing wrong with living in abject terror and carrying a loaded gun all the time.  I disagree.  That isn't the country we should want.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 22, 2022)

ding said:


> That's a lie.  You care a great deal.  So much so that it clouds your ability to reason.



No, you misunderstand: I don't care if someone takes your guns from you or puts you on a watch list because of your guns.  I would actually be fine with that.

The key is that you don't actually matter at all in any of this.  Your "opinion" on guns is noted and your lack of any real meaningful way to address the gun violence in our country is noted and as such you are no longer an integral part of the conversation of what happens to your guns.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 22, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> All progressives are like that.  The only real reason for gun control is because progressives think it is fun to violate people's civil liberties.



Uh huh.  (Well, YOURS specifically)


Open Bolt said:


> I'm guessing you also wont explain what "much more oversight" means.



Registry for all guns/owners in any given town.
Re-apply for registration and license for your gun every single year along with a mental health check (mandatory)
Much more difficult to purchase guns (limits on how many guns someone can purchase over a period of time, limits on ammunition, longer background check time)
Mandatory gun safety training every few years
Close the boyfriend loophole and other domestic violence loopholes that might exist
Eliminate open and concealed carry outright
Added surcharge to each gun and ammo purchase to go toward a national mental health program for improved access


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## Open Bolt (Jun 22, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Much more difficult to purchase guns (limits on how many guns someone can purchase over a period of time, limits on ammunition, longer background check time)
> Eliminate open and concealed carry outright


These two are outright unconstitutional.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Registry for all guns/owners in any given town.
> Re-apply for registration and license for your gun every single year along with a mental health check (mandatory)


The left's abuse of registration lists means that the American people will never allow it.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Added surcharge to each gun and ammo purchase to go toward a national mental health program for improved access


If we're going to tax rights, we should start by taxing the right to vote.

Let's tax the right to a speedy trial too.  And definitely tax abortions.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Mandatory gun safety training every few years


That's one that you could probably get people to agree to.

But before we pass any new gun laws, progressives should really pay reparations for all the times they deliberately violated people's civil liberties for no reason.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Close the boyfriend loophole and other domestic violence loopholes that might exist


That's another that you might get people to agree to as long as there are suitable protections against false accusations.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 22, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Actually I haven't.  Which is kind of why I am dubious about the MANY posters on here who claim they need guns for "self defense".


You don't get it.  Free people don't have to need guns.  We have the right to have them regardless of need.

If we choose to carry guns for self defense, that is our right.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> In all seriousness this is where I sit with respect to guns.  Guns are a great tool.  Hunting is a legitimate and valuable sport and there's even a role for guns in self-defense.  The key is that there is no real need for us to have so many guns that literally every man, woman and child can have a gun maybe 2.


There doesn't have to be a need.  If someone chooses to have 50 guns, that is their choice.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> And it should be a bit harder to get guns.  Maybe even a lot harder.


Unconstitutional.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> We have to do a reset with our relationship to guns.


No we don't.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Now I also know a lot of folks on here see nothing wrong with living in abject terror and carrying a loaded gun all the time.  I disagree.  That isn't the country we should want.


People who carry guns are not living in abject terror.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 22, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> No, you misunderstand: I don't care if someone takes your guns from you or puts you on a watch list because of your guns.  I would actually be fine with that.


Gun control is always about violating people's civil liberties.

It's never about saving lives.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> The key is that you don't actually matter at all in any of this.  Your "opinion" on guns is noted and your lack of any real meaningful way to address the gun violence in our country is noted and as such you are no longer an integral part of the conversation of what happens to your guns.


That is incorrect.  America is a democracy.  We all have a say in preventing you from violating our civil liberties.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 22, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> These two are outright unconstitutional.



That can be changed.



Open Bolt said:


> The left's abuse of registration lists means that the American people will never allow it.



Just like with cars, eh?  (Remember, cars are easily used to conduct mass killings too!)



Open Bolt said:


> If we're going to tax rights, we should start by taxing the right to vote.



You already pay surchages on your gun purchases that go to hunting organizations.  I don't see you guys losing it over THAT.  



Open Bolt said:


> But before we pass any new gun laws, progressives should really pay reparations for all the times they deliberately violated people's civil liberties for no reason.



Why so much hatred for folks who disagree with you?  Do you see why it is troubling to see people blather on non-stop about how much they neeeeeeeed guns and also see how much UNDYING HATRED they also have for people who disagree with them?

Do you see how that looks like an analogue to any given mass shooters' psychology?  Angry at some nebulous "other" and packin' heat.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Jun 22, 2022)

Open Bolt said:


> It's never about saving lives.



Let's see what YOU THINK:


Open Bolt said:


> I am perfectly willing to piss on their corpses.



Yup.


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## Open Bolt (Jun 22, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> That can be changed.


It won't be changed.  America is not going to abolish our freedom.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Just like with cars, eh?


I am not aware of progressives having a history of abusing car registration.  Should such a history come to pass, people will begin opposing car registration as well.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Why so much hatred for folks who disagree with you?


Requiring you to pay damages for your atrocities is not hatred.  If you didn't want to pay damages for atrocities, then you shouldn't have committed atrocities.




Cardinal Carminative said:


> Do you see why it is troubling to see people blather on non-stop about how much they neeeeeeeed guns and also see how much UNDYING HATRED they also have for people who disagree with them?


It is the left who tend to hate people who disagree with them.

It is also the left who tend to blather about need.  Free people have guns because we choose to have them.


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## miketx (Jun 26, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Imagine having 74 people determined to protect your child.


Great way to keep kids safe.


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## miketx (Sep 13, 2022)

All my teachers had arms.


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