# Jonah Goldberg on the Similarities and Differences between T party and MOWS crowd



## Baruch Menachem (Oct 7, 2011)

I get Goldberg's weekly newsletter.    He has an interesting discussion on the similarities and differences between the March on Wall Street and Tea Party people.

Both hate the TARP and government subsides to big business.  Both sides are protesting the incestuous relations that impoverish normal people while the connected get fat on graft.

However.....


> Well, what's sort of fascinating about the Occupy Wall Street/Tea Party comparison is how much overlap there is between their complaints. Scrape off the 31 different kinds of Marxist mold growing on the surface of the 99 Percenters, hose off the stench of urine, bong water, and failure, and you'll find a complaint that many Tea Partiers can appreciate: disgust at corporate bailouts, crony capitalism, and economic mismanagement.
> 
> That's a major swath of agreement. The problem? The 99 Percenters' proposed solutions and the Tea Partiers' are absolutely incompatible with each other. The 99 Percenters aren't against taxpayer bailouts -- why would they be? They don't pay much in taxes -- they're just against taxpayer bailouts of the wrong constituencies. After all, if Obama somehow forgave their student loans tomorrow, most of them would go home happy. They want debt forgiveness -- and that's a bailout. Meanwhile, the Tea Parties formed in no small part because, as Rick Santelli put it, taxpayers didn't want to pay for their neighbors' mortgages.
> 
> It's really intriguing how the policy differences are informed by cultural differences. The twentysomethings haven't paid much, if anything, in taxes and have received more than they've given. The Tea Partiers tend to be older and have spent a lot of time paying into the system. They resent paying for handouts. The Occupy Wall Streeters resent not getting them. And their definition of greed is not merely wanting to keep your own money, but resisting when others try to take it from you.


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## Sallow (Oct 7, 2011)

Yes..if you scrape off the racist theocratic fascism of the tea party..you do find some common ground. But you have to hose off the stench from depends, jack daniels, old cigs and vicks.


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey, Jonah's metaphor is copyright.   If you are going to use it like that, you gotta pay a royalty.


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## Wiseacre (Oct 7, 2011)

When you have a lot of people out of work for an extended period of time, especially young people, resentment is going to grow until it spills out into the streets.   I think it's good that so many are protesting against the status quo, which is essentially what the TPers have been doing.

The problem is that the MOWSers have focused on the wrong people.   The Wall Street crowd operates under the rules as determined and regulated by the gov't.   If you can find somebody cheating or breaking the rules, fine, go after their asses and throw 'em in jail.   But if you ain't happy with the rules or the enforcement then you need to bitching at Washington, as the TPers are doing.

Now if you have a problem with free market capitalism, that's another story.  Then you need to go to Cuba or North Korea.  Good luck with that, socialism has been tried and always fails.


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## Sallow (Oct 7, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Hey, Jonah's metaphor is copyright.   If you are going to use it like that, you gotta pay a royalty.


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## Sallow (Oct 7, 2011)

Wiseacre said:


> When you have a lot of people out of work for an extended period of time, especially young people, resentment is going to grow until it spills out into the streets.   I think it's good that so many are protesting against the status quo, which is essentially what the TPers have been doing.
> 
> The problem is that the MOWSers have focused on the wrong people.   The Wall Street crowd operates under the rules as determined and regulated by the gov't.   If you can find somebody cheating or breaking the rules, fine, go after their asses and throw 'em in jail.   But if you ain't happy with the rules or the enforcement then you need to bitching at Washington, as the TPers are doing.
> 
> Now if you have a problem with free market capitalism, that's another story.  Then you need to go to Cuba or North Korea.  Good luck with that, socialism has been tried and always fails.



Well that's one way to look at it. Another way is that they used time, leverage and lots of money to get the rule book thrown out the window.

Then the threw the book on ethics and morals into a trashbin, poured kerosene in and lit it.

Then they got rakes for all the cash coming their way..


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## Wiseacre (Oct 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Wiseacre said:
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> > When you have a lot of people out of work for an extended period of time, especially young people, resentment is going to grow until it spills out into the streets.   I think it's good that so many are protesting against the status quo, which is essentially what the TPers have been doing.
> ...




Overstated, but somewhat true.   Free market capitalism can work to good advantage, there's no better economic system known to man.   But it does have to be monitored, to ensure there's no lying, stealing, and cheating.   We have to do better at promoting competition, and encouraging entrepeneurship.   We have to ensure enough accurate information is presented to the public and to businesses and investors, no pigs in a poke like we had with all those bundled subprime mortgages that lead to the housing bubble.  You canpoint the finger at Wall Street, and that's fine, they did things that were at least questionable.   But to me the real fault lies with the gov't for not ensuring the regs were proper and were enforced properly.   Instead, the emphasis was on getting too many voters into houses they really couldn't afford.


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 7, 2011)

Essentially the MOWS crowd is saying the cure for this kind of thing is more of the same.    The Tea Party is saying we need to do something completely different.

Doing the same stupid, but for different beneficiaries leads to the same bad results.  Giving handouts to corrupt executives at Enron or giving handouts to corrupt executives at Solyndra is stil results in disastrous policies for the consumer.


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## Wicked Jester (Oct 7, 2011)

The main difference is, the Tea Party members actually work, bathe, wash their clothes, and actually know what the fuck they are talking about.

These liberals running around acting like a bunch of uneducated morons, don't work, bathe, wash their clothes, or know what the fuck they are talking about.........They are an embarrassment to all hard working, clean, educated americans.


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## California Girl (Oct 7, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Yes..if you scrape off the racist theocratic fascism of the tea party..you do find some common ground. But you have to hose off the stench from depends, jack daniels, old cigs and vicks.



More drunken ranting, swallow?

Seriously.... sober up occasionally. Sad lying old bastard.


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## California Girl (Oct 7, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> The main difference is, the Tea Party members actually work, bathe, wash their clothes, and actually know what the fuck they are talking about.
> 
> These liberals running around acting like a bunch of uneducated morons, don't work, bathe, wash their clothes, or know what the fuck they are talking about.........They are an embarrassment to all hard working, clean, educated americans.



The main difference between the two is that the OWS is a bunch of suckers getting played by the left.


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## Sallow (Oct 7, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Sallow said:
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> > Yes..if you scrape off the racist theocratic fascism of the tea party..you do find some common ground. But you have to hose off the stench from depends, jack daniels, old cigs and vicks.
> ...



Irony escapes ya don't it NaziGirl?

Cuddle up with your jackboots and gas another jew will ya?


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## Sallow (Oct 7, 2011)

Wiseacre said:


> Sallow said:
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Free market capitalism is the best system. But it needs to be well regulated. The inclination of entrepeneurs is to merge and remove competition, because in the long run it's cheaper and therefore more profitable. Once that happens..it's no longer capitalism.

And it's not "completely" the fault of government. Government was tainted by wealth. That really has to be addressed..or the system of government and capitalism we enjoy now will be history.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 7, 2011)

Have you guys SEEN the proposed list of demands of the Occupy Wall Street group?  (These were discussed at length by our No 1 local radio station here on Tuesday.)  Bear in mind these are proposals and not an official list.

But this sure doesn't look like Tea Party stuff to me.  Is the the same group as MOWS?




> Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement! | OccupyWallSt.org Forum
> 
> Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.
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## Wiseacre (Oct 7, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Have you guys SEEN the proposed list of demands of the Occupy Wall Street group?  (These were discussed at length by our No 1 local radio station here on Tuesday.)  Bear in mind these are proposals and not an official list.
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> But this sure doesn't look like Tea Party stuff to me.  Is the the same group as MOWS?
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> ...




This list of demands is from one person posting on an online forum like this one, I would assume this person speaks for anyone but him/herself.   However it does seem to be inline somewhat with what they are demonstraing about.   And no, this is nothing like what the Tea Party people want to do.


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 7, 2011)

The comparison is not with the proposals, which are wildly different, but with the frustrations and anxieties.   Mr Goldberg makes the point that the MOWS folks seem to be clueless as to the source of their frustration, and that their methods of solving problems seem to be designed to only exacerbate them


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## Foxfyre (Oct 7, 2011)

Wiseacre said:


> Foxfyre said:
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> > Have you guys SEEN the proposed list of demands of the Occupy Wall Street group?  (These were discussed at length by our No 1 local radio station here on Tuesday.)  Bear in mind these are proposals and not an official list.
> ...



You are correct that the list is what I believe to be a spoof the guy came up with re the MOWS group.  And I should have specified that when I posted it though it is obvious at the website.  Sorry about that.  But the MOWS group are so incoherant about what they seem to be marching for, the spoof is pretty funny I think.  There are rumors that many of the MOWS marchers were bribed, coerced, or otherwise paid to be there and many if not most don't know what it is all about.

Reminds me of decades ago, a young Barbra Streisand was enlisted by a N.O.W. group to attend a pro choice rally.  Somebody realized that Streisand, naturally a magnet for the media, was passionately arguing a pro life stance.  Somebody took her aside to inform her that she was supposed to be an advocate for women's right to an abortion.  That was okay with her and she went that way for the rest of the rally time.   Some commitment huh. 

Tea Partiers on the other hand are pretty clear what they are rallying for and most can articulate it quite competently.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 7, 2011)

It is interesting however, that though the folks on the website made clear the list wasn't theirs, I didn't see where they objected to the content.  Nor have any of the anti-Tea Party and/or pro MOWS folks posting on this thread.  Nor have any of the pro MOWS folks posting on an intended-to-be-light thread I started re that spoof list.  

My guess is, not a single Tea Partier would agree to anything on that list of 'proposals' but some in the MOWS group would.


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## Wicked Jester (Oct 7, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> It is interesting however, that though the folks on the website made clear the list wasn't theirs, I didn't see where they objected to the content.  Nor have any of the anti-Tea Party and/or pro MOWS folks posting on this thread.  Nor have any of the pro MOWS folks posting on an intended-to-be-light thread I started re that spoof list.
> 
> My guess is, not a single Tea Partier would agree to anything on that list of 'proposals' but some in the MOWS group would.


Actually, O'Reilly's producer has interviewed many of the OWS loons.....Their demands mirror exactly what was posted........As if these fools actually think any of those demands are feasible.


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## Zander (Oct 7, 2011)

The main differences are the Tea Partiers are non violent, employed,  bathe regularly, and shit in toilets.  The COWS are violent, unemployed, filthy stink bombs, that shit in the streets.


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## Wiseacre (Oct 7, 2011)

Funny how much the left denigrated and demagogued the TP when they burst on the scene, but now they're gushing all over the MOWS.   I'm all for freedom of speech and I'm good with protesting the income inequality issue even though I think it's overblown and they're attacking the wrong people.   Making money and being successful is not a crime, but these people seem to think it is.


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 10, 2011)

Making money is cool, as long as you give it over to the folks who don't earn it.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 10, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Foxfyre said:
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> > It is interesting however, that though the folks on the website made clear the list wasn't theirs, I didn't see where they objected to the content.  Nor have any of the anti-Tea Party and/or pro MOWS folks posting on this thread.  Nor have any of the pro MOWS folks posting on an intended-to-be-light thread I started re that spoof list.
> ...



Yes I know.  All humor must include an element of truth, yes?

Another difference between Tea Party rallies is those who organize Tea Party Rallies constantly encourage those participating to be respectful of private property, to carry out all trash, to the leave the premises as spotless as possible.  Glen Beck's rally in DC was the same.  And every one I have seen or read about have operated just that way.

But here is an account by a NY Times writer.  Much different suggesting a much different class of people participating:



> Politics
> October 09, 2011
> By CARA BUCKLEY, NY Times
> 
> ...


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## Cecilie1200 (Oct 10, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Foxfyre said:
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> > It is interesting however, that though the folks on the website made clear the list wasn't theirs, I didn't see where they objected to the content.  Nor have any of the anti-Tea Party and/or pro MOWS folks posting on this thread.  Nor have any of the pro MOWS folks posting on an intended-to-be-light thread I started re that spoof list.
> ...



I pointed out on another thread that TIME Magazine ALSO posted a similar list of demands in an article about OWS.

If they're going to keep disavowing any and all demands presented as theirs, they might want to consider producing a list of their own.  That, or go the fuck home and stop wasting everyone's time.  Piss or get off the pot.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 10, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Wicked Jester said:
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They are on record at their website as having made no demands.

What do they want?
They don't know.
When do they want it?
They want it now!

I mean really, what kind of numbnut protests like that without having a clue about what they are protesting?


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## Jos (Oct 10, 2011)

Maybe they should just take a dump on Wall ST. after all Wall ST has been taking a dump on Americans for how long now?


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 10, 2011)

Why should they respect property and the rights of others?   After all, property is theft, therefore  theft is property.


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## Avatar4321 (Oct 11, 2011)

They are Robbers. And if we don't make an effort to stop them, they _will_ destroy our civilization.


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## chanel (Oct 11, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


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My son attends college in Phila. where the Occupy Phila. group is in its sixth day of protesting.  I asked if any of his friends attended and he said "no".  But he did witness a near fistfight between two students en route to City Hall.  One was dressed as a zombie and the other told him "Crazies are not welcome"  and "You are making us look like a joke".  I suspect there is too much division in their "demands" and that will end up being the end of them.  I just hope it fizzles without violence.


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## California Girl (Oct 11, 2011)

chanel said:


> Foxfyre said:
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Well, they appear to now have Lloyd Hart acting as their spokesperson. Interestingly, Mr Hart used to be a fundraiser for Al Sharpton, and since has worked at the Tides Foundation... and yet, we are told there is no connection to Tides.. Soros and Watermelon Man... The facts do not support the left's argument about OWS. Nope, they do not. Facts. Love 'em or hate 'em.


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## editec (Oct 11, 2011)

Both groups are frustrated with the status quo.

Both groups recognize that our government is failing the people.

_That_ they share in common.

In that respect the similarities between these populist movements protesting against the status quo and that of Germany's populist movements in the 30's is rather similar.

Add to that similarity the fact that the two populist movements hate the other in the USA nearly as much as they did during the Germany period of unrest that eventually lead to the takeover by NAZIs.

Kind of creepy, isn't it?

Here's what I know...neither of these groups speak for me.

Neither has a CLUE how to solve this problem.

If either group achieves power, the government either of them forges won't be one that most Americans will be happy with.

Neither of them, in my opinion has a plan that will work.

Both of them, again in my opinion, has plans that will actually make things worse.


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## Zander (Oct 11, 2011)

editec said:


> Both groups are frustrated with the status quo.
> 
> Both groups recognize that our government is failing the people.
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I see it far differently.

The Tea party is about one thing - fiscal responsibility from our government.  They aren't demanding a new constitution- they are happy with the one we have.  They just want  a return to sanity with regards to spending, taxation, and entitlements. Yes, I know, it would be just horrible if the budget was balanced, citizens were personally responsible,  and we started paying down the national debt. Oh the horror!! 


These SOWS are another story entirely. They are a sloppy miasma of Marxist rhetoric, stupidity, and incoherence.  They see themselves as modern day hippies- content to shit in the streets, go weeks without bathing, and reeking of hypocrisy. They have no real message other than "eat the rich".


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## Bfgrn (Oct 11, 2011)

Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripps cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was vice-president of his moms company. But through his moms hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldbergs son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job:

    Jonah, agent fatale Lucianne Goldbergs 29-year-old son, entered the national stage when he listened to the Linda Tripp tapes with his mom. . . . .

    From an early age, his mother, who has acknowledged being an undercover Republican political operative during the McGovern campaign, exposed her son to feisty right-wing hi-jinks  and instilled in him a strong sense of family loyalty and affection. Indeed, Goldberg says he first entered the media fray to defend my mom from those who deemed her the money-grubbing Wicked Witch of the Upper West Side.

    National Review, like Jonah, hates handouts, believes strongly in the glorious virtues of self-sufficiency and pulling oneself up by ones bootstraps (and, apparently, by ones unsevered umbilical cords); demands meritocratic policies; and is filled with spine-stiffening courage and toughness. Theyre the people who hate affirmative action because of how unfair and un-meritocratic it is, but who thrive on legacy admissions to college and have their moms and dads get them jobs and make their careers.

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
Friedrich Nietzsche


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## Sallow (Oct 11, 2011)

Zander said:


> editec said:
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> > Both groups are frustrated with the status quo.
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You're kidding. The tea party elected people that wanted to add a brand spanking new ammendment to require government to have balanced budgets. They also wanted to get rid of the citizenship clause by birth in the 14th Amendment. They also wanted to toss the 17th Amendment. Yeah..they were "happy" with it all right.

And none of these folks were protesting Bush. In fact they tried to tie TARP to Obama.

The Tea Baggers (which they named themselves) was a ridiculous movement. They had every right to protest, however. But it was hardly a homegrown, "natural", grass roots thing. Dick Armey and FOX co-opted the whole thing for the GOP.


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## OldUSAFSniper (Oct 11, 2011)

The Tea Party stands for FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY and an END to Big Government.  The bottom line is, unlike the nuts on Wall Street, the Tea Party understands that government is the PROBLEM.  It's too big, too expensive, too intrusive, and too damn ignorant to do anything well.  And unlike the nuts on Wall Street, it's the Tea Party members that actually PAY for government.  So, although the left-leaning media in this country would like you to believe that the two things are similar, they are so incredibly full of manure, that they can't see straight.

One of the issues that the people on Wall Street have is that they do not want PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  If you want to go to Columbia University and you run up $200,000 in debt, then partner, you've got to pay it back!  They want people to pay that for them.  Horse dookey!  That is just like something that a 12 year old would want.  How about one of the hundreds of STATE COLLEGES across this country, OR you could even go to a Junior College to begin with.  I know, I know, that wouldn't let you sit around with all the goof-balls and theorize about karma or some other crap, but it would give you an education.

Here this:  We're tired of paying.  Enough is enough.  You want to take more and more to fund these stupid give-aways, it ain't happening.  There are ways to hide your money.  Going overseas is one of them.  Keep pushing and you're going to see such a massive exodus of capital that it will make your head spin.


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## OldUSAFSniper (Oct 11, 2011)

Sallow said:


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I like you Sallow.  Sometimes you can make a point that is so ingenious that it scares me.  But this ain't one of these times.

The Tea Party started as a result of Obamacare being rammed through Congress.  It started with the meetings that Congressmen and Senators were having back home during the summer recess.  Those got so heated that they stopped having the meetings with their constituents.  So we got together and the Tea Party was formed.  Claire McCaskill (SP??) from Missouri was one of those.  She cancelled her meetings with constituents that year because they were hammering her.  Now she's pretty much understanding that because she wouldn't listen to Missourians, she's toast.

You're absolutely right.  We want, no we demand, a balanced budget amendment that can ONLY be violated during a time of declared war.  You're right about the citizenship clause to the 14th Amendment.  We want that gone.  Just look at the wife of the Mexican drug cartel leader that came to San Diego to have their child last month.  He's on the FBI's most wanted list and she trips to the USA because she knows that if the kids born here, he will have citizenship.  Now that kid is technically an American citizen.  When dad gets a bullet to the brain, she takes her kid "home."  The 17th Amendment not so much (I've NEVER heard anyone gripe about it at a Tea Party event).

As for the teabagger thing, it was Jeanine Garafallo (SP??) that first started it.  I'd never heard it before and quite frankly it was like being called a pig when I was a cop.  Yawn.  Saying that Fox News and Dick Armey aggitated the movement is fantasy.  They piled on perhaps, just like the unions with the OWS nuts.


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 11, 2011)

Bfgrn said:


> Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripps cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was vice-president of his moms company. But through his moms hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldbergs son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job:
> 
> Jonah, agent fatale Lucianne Goldbergs 29-year-old son, entered the national stage when he listened to the Linda Tripp tapes with his mom. . . . .
> 
> ...



How does any of this relate to his argument?   Who Jonah Goldberg is, or who his parents are have no relevance to this discussion.     His argument is valid or not valid based on his facts and his reasoning, not because of his employer or his parents.

I only included his name because I stole the text from his newsletter.   You aren't allowed to present other people's ideas as your own.   You would realize that if you actually had any ideas.

Returning to his basic thesis, there is a huge amount of disgust over government -big business incest.   It is the basis for the slavish devotion of the adherents of Ron Paul, Sarah Palin and Denis Kusinich.   There is a huge amount of disgust over this.

Goldberg is not saying this annoyance is wrong.   He is saying the Tea Party folks have a better understanding of the fundamental issue, and the remedies of the OWS are worse than the disease because they want to compound the problem and move it to their personal advantage rather than fix it.


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## Bfgrn (Oct 11, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Bfgrn said:
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> > Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripps cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was vice-president of his moms company. But through his moms hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldbergs son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job:
> ...



How does it relate? REALLY??? If Jonah hadn't pulled 'himself up' by his mother's umbilical cord and wasn't afforded legacy admissions to college and have his mom get him jobs, he wouldn't have the forum to make his argument, now would he? Maybe he'd be sleeping on Wall Street.


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## Cecilie1200 (Oct 11, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


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Oh, they know what they're protesting.  They're protesting the fact that all of their lives are giant shit sandwiches.  However, if they knew what to do about it, they wouldn't be sitting around in a park, making fools of themselves.


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## Cecilie1200 (Oct 11, 2011)

Bfgrn said:


> Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripps cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was vice-president of his moms company. But through his moms hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldbergs son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job:
> 
> Jonah, agent fatale Lucianne Goldbergs 29-year-old son, entered the national stage when he listened to the Linda Tripp tapes with his mom. . . . .
> 
> ...



I wondered when the King of Irrelevancy would show up and treat us all to a nice long post about fuck-all that's _apropos _of nothing whatsoever.


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## amrchaos (Oct 11, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Wicked Jester said:
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> > The main difference is, the Tea Party members actually work, bathe, wash their clothes, and actually know what the fuck they are talking about.
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I don't know about that.

It looks as if the lefties are tired of their phony leaders talking the talk but not walking the walk.

Kind of like how tea partiers are tired of talking the talk but not walking the walk.

But, Dear lady, am neither a left winger nor right winger.  I am tired of our elected officials talking the talk and then screwing up royally!!

By the way, Isn't the OWS actually the coffee party on LSD??


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## Bfgrn (Oct 11, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Bfgrn said:
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> > Jonah Goldberg, of course, was foisted on the nation by his mom during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when she milked the attention she received as Linda Tripps cohort to push Jonah into the spotlight and into publishing, where he has remained ever since. At the time, Jonah, 29, was vice-president of his moms company. But through his moms hard work exploiting their joint dirt-mongering in that scandal, he quickly became a National Review Editor. As recorded by this superb and darkly amusing 1998 Salon profile, entitled The Jester of Monicagate: How Lucianne Goldbergs son Jonah has turned his 15 minutes of fame into a full-time job:
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The 'King of Irrelevancy' is Jonah Goldberg. A pampered life where mommy gets you a job is not a frame of reference.


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## Trajan (Oct 11, 2011)

Bfgrn said:


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you're non answer is noted. I for one and shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Trajan (Oct 11, 2011)

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leave Arthur Sulzberger Jr out of this...oh, oops, I mean....


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## Bfgrn (Oct 11, 2011)

Trajan said:


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> > Cecilie1200 said:
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Well, if Arthur opens his trap about OWS we'll shoe him away too...


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## jillian (Oct 11, 2011)

Trajan said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...



nice non-sequitur... 

but don't you mean like rupert murdoch's kid?


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 11, 2011)

The identity of a particular columnist's mom does not change the truth of the facts or the quality of the analysis.  You can disagree with Jonah or not based on whether you think he is right or not, but Lucianne is not part of the discussion  on wether  the OWS folks have a clue, could find their asses with both hands tied behind them or have the economic literacy of a flea that has been dropped on its head once too often.


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## Cecilie1200 (Oct 12, 2011)

amrchaos said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



One of our local talk show hosts calls them the Flea Party.  I like it.


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## chanel (Oct 12, 2011)

Message from the "53 percent"


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## Bfgrn (Oct 12, 2011)

chanel said:


> Message from the "53 percent"








Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government.
Edmund Burke


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## editec (Oct 12, 2011)

> The problem? The 99 Percenters' proposed solutions and the Tea Partiers' are absolutely incompatible with each other


 
Bingo.

The TPM and OWS are two expressions of the popular discontent.

They both intuit the problem but neither of them understands the details well enough to know who to blame.

Naturally, therefore, both arrive with solutions that can not work.

GIGO, know what I mean?

FYI, that means: *Garbage in garbage out.*


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## California Girl (Oct 23, 2011)

OldUSAFSniper said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Zander said:
> ...



You like people who trample over the bodies of six million victims of genocide just to make a 'joke'? How odd. 

Personally, I think Swallow is as thick as pig shit. He's also an unemployed drunk.


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## editec (Oct 23, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Essentially the MOWS crowd is saying the cure for this kind of thing is more of the same.


 
Total Nonsense, Baruch, I am surprised to read _you _are so misinformed

Essantially the MOWS crowd is proposing a RADICAL change in the way this society works.

The number one change they propose is an END TO CORPORATE PERSONHOOD.

That is why they're on WALL STREET instead of in WASHINGTON.

To emphasise where the root cause of this problem REALLY rests.

(I might have pro0posed that they occupy K Street, but WALL STREET is an capitalist incon that more people can understand) 



> The Tea Party is saying we need to do something completely different.


 
Yes, they too have a plan. 



> Doing the same stupid, but for different beneficiaries leads to the same bad results. Giving handouts to corrupt executives at Enron or giving handouts to corrupt executives at Solyndra is stil results in disastrous policies for the consumer.


 

Believe me, changing the social contract regarding CORPORATIONS is hardly DOING THE SAME THING, amigo.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 23, 2011)

I don't know anybody who is in the OWS protest, but I have watched interview after interview on Fox, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and NBC and their affiliates and I have yet to find ANYBODY interviewed who had a clue what he or she was actually protesting or what he or she expected anybody to do about it or provide.

I have been actively involved in the Tea Party movement however, know a LOT of people who have been actively involved in that movement, and I don't know a SOUL who is actively involved in that movement who doesn't have a very clear idea of what they want to happen and who is to blame for it not happening.


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## Baruch Menachem (Oct 23, 2011)

editec said:


> Baruch Menachem said:
> 
> 
> > Essentially the MOWS crowd is saying the cure for this kind of thing is more of the same.
> ...



Making corporations the scapegoat is not the same as having  a clue.   Corporation personhood makes them easy to sue, tax and organize.  it is a nice little legal fiction that makes modern commerce function.

The essential trouble is the MOWS people know that government handouts to favored "persons" is the trouble.  The mistake in thinking that who it is that gets the handouts is relevant.  Passing out money to Solyndra, Citibank or unemployable college students is all equally evil wastes of working people's money.   It is the extraction of money from productive pockets to the hands that scratch the back of entrenched politicians that is the issue. Not the enemy de jour of those following the anarchists handbook.


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## Bfgrn (Oct 24, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> I don't know anybody who is in the OWS protest, but I have watched interview after interview on Fox, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and NBC and their affiliates and I have yet to find ANYBODY interviewed who had a clue what he or she was actually protesting or what he or she expected anybody to do about it or provide.
> 
> I have been actively involved in the Tea Party movement however, know a LOT of people who have been actively involved in that movement, and I don't know a SOUL who is actively involved in that movement who doesn't have a very clear idea of what they want to happen and who is to blame for it not happening.



We could ALL know 'what they (Tea Party movement) want to happen and who is to blame for it not happening' by watching Glenn Beck for a week.

It just doesn't make it TRUE...


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## jillian (Oct 25, 2011)

Sallow said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



*sigh*

i truly, seriously and from the bottom of my heart wish people (especially people i like and generally agree with) would stop calling people nazis. only nazis are nazis.

*banging head against desk*

and CG, he's not ranting, hon.

y'all make me sad.


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## California Girl (Oct 26, 2011)

jillian said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. No sober, decent, honorable individual says things like that about another individual just for the craic of it, mo chara. They just don't. It is a measure of the individual. It's one thing to say that shit when you're drunk.... that's understandable, however unjustifiable..... but if that's what he's actually like.... then he is a sick freak. An individual without morals. That makes me sad too.


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## editec (Oct 26, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Baruch Menachem said:
> ...


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## KSigMason (Oct 26, 2011)

> *Occupy Wall Street Is Certainly No Tea Party
> *By Matt Kibbe
> 
> The Occupy Wall Street movement desperately wants to be compared to the Tea Party, because such a comparison would give the fledgling, misguided movement unearned legitimacy. But there are three key characteristics that separate OWS from the Tea Party: First, the Occupy protesters pride themselves on provocative resistance to law enforcement and in some cases violence. Second, they disrespect public and private property. Third, and most important, the Occupy movement lacks a coherent guiding philosophy.
> ...


There are some huge differences...violence, focused direction, crime, and decency.


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## Bfgrn (Oct 27, 2011)

KSigMason said:


> > *Occupy Wall Street Is Certainly No Tea Party
> > *By Matt Kibbe
> >
> > The Occupy Wall Street movement desperately wants to be compared to the Tea Party, because such a comparison would give the fledgling, misguided movement unearned legitimacy. But there are three key characteristics that separate OWS from the Tea Party: First, the Occupy protesters pride themselves on provocative resistance to law enforcement and in some cases violence. Second, they disrespect public and private property. Third, and most important, the Occupy movement lacks a coherent guiding philosophy.
> ...



Matt Kibbe, President and CEO of FreedomWorks??? You mean the astroturfing organization that runs the tea party...


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## KSigMason (Oct 27, 2011)

Bfgrn said:


> KSigMason said:
> 
> 
> > > *Occupy Wall Street Is Certainly No Tea Party
> ...


Does he not make valid points?


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## Bfgrn (Oct 27, 2011)

KSigMason said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > KSigMason said:
> ...



Well let's break it down, shall me? Kibbe's asrtoturf group who call themselves the tea party claim to be a reincarnation of the Boston Tea Party.

The original Boston Tea Partiers prided themselves on provocative resistance to law enforcement and in some cases violence. Second, they disrespect public and private property.

They illegally boarded privately owned vessels and dumped property owned by the largest transnational corporation into the Boston Harbor.







On the other hand, this group had a coherent guiding philosophy, picked up after themselves and were well behaved.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 27, 2011)

Sorry, but the modern Tea Party in no way sees itself as the reincarnation of the Boston Tea Party.  The modern Tea Party rather discourages any form of civil disobedience and encourages the finest of good citizenship and conduct.  The modern Tea Party, however, draws its same strength from the same desire for personal liberty and resistance to an oppressive, too encroaching, too powerful, and too unresponsive government which was the impetus driving the Boston Tea Party.


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## chanel (Oct 28, 2011)




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## Bfgrn (Oct 28, 2011)

chanel said:


>



Why would Wall Street and the government want to silence these people?





Astroturfing tea party, sponsored by:
FreedomWorks
Koch Industries
Insurance cartels
Dirty energy cartels
Massey Energy Company







Meet Don Blankenship, CEO of Massey Energy Company. Blankenship is also on the Board of Directors of the US Chamber of Commerce. 

Massey Energy Company, Blankenship's highly successful strip-mining and mountaintop removal operation is the parent company of Performance Coal Co, where a tragic explosion occurred on April 5th. 29 miners have died. One single violent event in a coal mine run by a company so obsessed with profit it runs roughshod over employees' and neighbors' health and safety.

Here's something else about Don Blankenship and Massey Energy Company: Blankenship spent over $1 million dollars along with other US Chamber buddies like Verizon to sponsor last year's Labor Day Tea Party, also known as the "Friends of America Rally."

Upper Big Branch mine disaster






On April 5, 2010, an explosion at Massey owned Performance Coal Co. mine in Montcoal, West Virginia resulted in the deaths of 29 miners. The explosion, which has become known as the Upper Big Branch Mine disaster, is the worst mining disaster in 40 years, with a greater loss of life than in any mining accident since the 1970s. Mine safety investigators are still searching for an exact cause, though the methane explosion, largely preventable by proper ventilation, is being closely examined. Investigators are also reviewing the historical record of safety violations at the Upper Big Branch mine, which amassed more than 1,100 violations in the past three years, many of them serious, including 50 of them in March 2010 for violations including improper ventilation of methane and poor escape routes. Federal regulators had ordered portions of the mine closed 60 times over the year preceding the explosion. In addition, the FBI has reportedly also launched a probe, investigating possible criminal wrongdoing at the mine, including criminal negligence and possible bribery of federal regulators. Questions about Massey Energy's mining safety practices, along with questions about CEO Don Blankenship's excessive spending on court appointment campaigns, are coming from the public, the Dept of Labor, and President Obama.

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus


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## Wicked Jester (Oct 28, 2011)

Here's the main differences between the Tea Party, and this motley collection of dirty, unbathed, ignorant liberals calling theselves the OWS.

1) The Tea Party is respectful of the community. They conduct themselves in a civil manner, pick up after themselves, and don't destroy public property.

2) The Tea Party knows what they stand for, and can articulate their points of view, consisely and accurately.

3) The Tea Party doesn't engage in violence. Therefore, you won't see Tea Partiers getting clocked in the head with tear gas cannisters like the moronic OWS idiot did.......Shit happens when you get violent with the police. No sympathy for that moron is necessary.

4) The Tea Party isn't doing drugs and peddling them out in public......Nor does theTea Party shit and piss on public streets, sidewalks, or lawns.

5) The Tea Party conducts themselves like decent human beings.....The OWS loons are nothing but dirty animals.


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## Cecilie1200 (Oct 28, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Here's the main differences between the Tea Party, and this motley collection of dirty, unbathed, ignorant liberals calling theselves the OWS.
> 
> 1) The Tea Party is respectful of the community. They conduct themselves in a civil manner, pick up after themselves, and don't destroy public property.
> 
> ...



My local "Occupy" branch was quite proud of the fact that they weren't going to bother with any "steenkeeng" permits to protest, and have happily flouted the law closing all local parks at 10:30, stating, "But we're a legitimate protest movement; that's the difference", because apparently that makes them special and above the laws the rest of us must follow.  NOW they're pissed off because the Tucson Police Department has been faithfully arresting and citing them every night for being in the park after hours, and want other people to contribute money to pay for their fines.

Here are some quotes from certain "Occupy Tucson" organizers of my acquaintance:

"The method of 'breaking up' the protest here in tucson is insidious and going to be even more effective than the thuggish actions taken in phoenix.

TPD is going to be citing everyone who stays, every night. Doubtless the fines for the citations are going to be at least a couple hundred dollars per night, possibly short jail time for people who stay multiple nights. Yet no nice photo ops for go viral about police brutality, no easy talking points. Very effective."

"There is a simple ploy to foil the pigs. Don't sign the citations. That will force the pigs to arrest them.  the system cannot handle a few hundred additional arrests everyday. They will be released in a few hours without charge."

Charming, no?  I especially like how basic enforcement of the loitering laws are "insidious" because they aren't violent.  And "pigs".  Classy, classy.  I'll bet that California transplant twink is the first person to scream for the cops for help when he gets in trouble, though.


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## chanel (Oct 29, 2011)

"Occupy Madison Loses Permit due to Public Masturbation"



> City officials temporarily denied Occupy Madison a new street use permit Wednesday after protesters violated public health and safety conditions and failed to follow the correct processes to renew or amend a permit.
> 
> The permit, which expired Wednesday at noon, required Occupy Madison protesters to relocate from their current space at 30 West Mifflin Street, also called 30 on the Square.
> 
> A neighboring hotel's staff alleged voiced concerns about having to recently escort hotel employees to and from bus stops late at night due to *inappropriate behavior, such as public masturbation, from street protesters*.



Occupy Madison loses permit - News - The Daily Cardinal - University of Wisconsin-Madison

Maybe they should add public circle jerking to their list of demands.


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## chanel (Oct 29, 2011)

Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally



> MANCHESTER - A city woman is accused of pimping a 16-year-old girl she met in Victory Park during the Occupy NH demonstrations.
> 
> Justina Jensen, 23, of 341 Hanover St., is charged with felony prostitution. Police allege Jensen met a teen at the local protest, which is an offshoot of Occupy Wall Street, and used the Internet to arrange a first liaison for the girl with a man who turned out to be an undercover police officer.



Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally | New Hampshire NEWS03


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