# The Right to Be Let Alone: What to Do When COVID Strike Force Teams Come Knocking



## Natural Citizen (Jul 16, 2021)

With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.

John W. Whitehead’s weekly commentaries are available for publication to newspapers and web publications at no charge. Please contact staff@rutherford.org to obtain reprint permission.



Anyway. For the benefit of the casual passer-by...

The Right to Be Let Alone: What to Do When COVID Strike Force Teams Come Knocking​
By John W. Whitehead & Nisha Whitehead
July 13, 2021

_*“Experience teaches us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent.”—Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis*


''A federal COVID-19 vaccination strike force may soon be knocking on your door, especially if you live in a community with low vaccination rates. Will you let them in?

More to the point, are you required to open the door?

The Biden Administration has announced that it plans to send federal “surge response teams” on a “targeted community door-to-door outreach“ to communities with low vaccination rates in order to promote the safety and accessibility of the COVID-19 vaccines.

That’s all fine and good as far as government propaganda goes, but nothing is ever as simple or as straightforward as the government claims, especially not when armed, roving bands of militarized agents deployed by the Nanny State show up at your door with an agenda that is at odds with what Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis referred to as the constitutional “right to be let alone.”

Any attempt by the government to encroach upon the citizenry’s privacy rights or establish a system by which the populace can be targeted, tracked and singled out must be met with extreme caution. These door-to-door “visits” by COVID-19 surge response teams certainly qualify as a government program whose purpose, while seemingly benign, raises significant constitutional concerns.

First, there is the visit itself.

While government agents can approach, speak to and even question citizens without violating the Fourth Amendment, Americans have a right not to answer questions or even speak with a government agent.

Courts have upheld these “knock and talk” visits as lawful, reasoning that even though the curtilage of the home is protected by the Fourth Amendment, there is an implied license to approach a residence, knock on the door/ring the bell, and seek to contact occupants. However, the encounter is wholly voluntary and a person is under no obligation to speak with a government agent in this situation.

Indeed, you don’t even need to answer or open the door in response to knocking/ringing by a government agent, and if you do answer the knock, you can stop speaking at any time. You also have the right to demand that government agents leave the property once the purpose of the visit is established. Government officials would not be enforcing any law or warrant in this context, and so they don’t have the authority of law to remain on the property after a homeowner or resident specifically revokes the implied license to come onto the property.

When the government’s actions go beyond merely approaching the door and knocking, it risks violating the Fourth Amendment, which requires a warrant and probable cause of possible wrongdoing in order to search one’s property. A government agent would violate the Fourth Amendment if he snooped around the premises, peering into window and going to other areas in search of residents.

It should be pointed out that some judges (including Supreme Court Justice Gorsuch) believe that placing “No Trespassing” signs or taking other steps to impede access to the door is sufficient to negate any implied permission for government agents or others to approach your home, but this view does not have general acceptance.

While in theory one can refuse to speak with police or other government officials during a “knock and talk” encounter, as the courts have asserted as a justification for dismissing complaints about this police investigative tactic, the reality is far different. Indeed, it is unreasonable to suggest that individuals caught unaware by these tactics will not feel pressured in the heat of the moment to comply with a request to speak with government agents who display official credentials and are often heavily armed, let alone allow them to search one’s property. Even when such consent is denied, police have been known to simply handcuff the homeowner and conduct a search over his objections.

Second, there is the danger inherent in these knock-and-talk encounters.

Although courts have embraced the fiction that “knock and talks” are “voluntary” encounters that are no different from other door-to-door canvassing, these constitutionally dubious tactics are highly intimidating confrontations meant to pressure individuals into allowing police access to one’s home, which then paves the way for a warrantless search of one’s home and property.

The act of going to homes and taking steps to speak with occupants is akin to the “knock and talk” tactic used by police, which can be fraught with danger for homeowners and government agents alike. Indeed, “knock-and-talk” policing has become a thinly veiled, warrantless exercise by which citizens are coerced and intimidated into “talking” with heavily armed police who “knock” on their doors in the middle of the night.

“Knock-and-shoot” policing might be more accurate, however.

“Knock and talks” not only constitute severe violations of the privacy and security of homeowners, but the combination of aggression and surprise employed by police is also a recipe for a violent confrontation that rarely ends well for those on the receiving end of these tactics.

For example, although 26-year-old Andrew Scott had committed no crime and never fired a single bullet or threatened police, he was gunned down by police who knocked aggressively on the wrong door at 1:30 am, failed to identify themselves as police, and then repeatedly shot and killed Scott when he answered the door while holding a gun in self-defense. The police were investigating a speeding incident by engaging in a middle-of-the-night “knock and talk” in Scott’s apartment complex.

Carl Dykes was shot in the face by a county deputy who pounded on Dykes’ door in the middle of the night without identifying himself. Because of reports that inmates had escaped from a local jail, Dykes brought a shotgun with him when he answered the door.

As these and other incidents make clear, while Americans have a constitutional right to question the legality of a police action or resist an unlawful police order, doing so can often get one arrested, shot or killed.

Third, there is the question of how the government plans to use the information it obtains during these knock-and-talk visits.

Because the stated purpose of the program is to promote vaccination, homeowners and others who reside at the residence will certainly be asked if they are vaccinated. Again, you have a right not to answer this or any other question. Indeed, an argument could be made that even asking this question is improper if the purpose of the program is merely to ensure that Americans “have the information they need on how both safe and accessible the vaccine is.”

Under the Privacy Act, 5 U.S.C. 552a, an agency should only collect and maintain information about an individual as is “relevant and necessary to accomplish a purpose of the agency.” In this situation, the government agent could accomplish the purpose of assuring persons have information about the vaccine simply by providing that information (either in writing or orally) and would not need to know the vaccination status of the residents. To the extent the agents do request, collect and store information about residents’ vaccination status, this could be a Privacy Act violation.

Of course, there is always the danger that this program could be used for other, more nefarious, purposes not related to vaccination encouragement. As with knock-and-talk policing, government agents might misuse their appearance of authority to gain entrance to a residence and obtain other information about it and those who live there. Once the door is opened by a resident, anything the agents can see from their vantage point can be reported to law enforcement authorities.

Moreover, while presumably the targeting will be of areas with demonstrated low vaccination rates, there is no guarantee that this program would not be used as cover for conducting surveillance on areas deemed to be “high crime” areas as a way of obtaining intelligence for law enforcement purposes.

We’ve been down this road before, with the government sending its spies to gather intel on American citizens by questioning them directly, or by asking their neighbors to snitch on them.

Remember the egregiously invasive and intrusive American Community Survey?

Unlike the traditional census, which collects data every ten years, the American Community Survey (ACS) is sent to about 3 million homes per year at a reported cost of hundreds of millions of dollars. Moreover, while the traditional census is limited to ascertaining the number of persons living in each dwelling, their ages and ethnicities, the ownership of the dwelling and telephone numbers, the ACS is much more intrusive, asking questions relating to respondents’ bathing habits, home utility costs, fertility, marital history, work commute, mortgage, and health insurance, among other highly personal and private matters.

Individuals who receive the ACS must complete it or be subject to monetary penalties. Although no reports have surfaced of individuals actually being penalized for refusing to answer the survey, the potential fines that can be levied for refusing to participate in the ACS are staggering. For every question not answered, there is a $100 fine. And for every intentionally false response to a question, the fine is $500. Therefore, if a person representing a two-person household refused to fill out any questions or simply answered nonsensically, the total fines could range from upwards of $10,000 and $50,000 for noncompliance.

At 28 pages (with an additional 16-page instruction packet), the ACS contains some of the most detailed and intrusive questions ever put forth in a census questionnaire. These concern matters that the government simply has no business knowing, including questions relating to respondents’ bathing habits, home utility costs, fertility, marital history, work commute, mortgage, and health insurance, among others. For instance, the ACS asks how many persons live in your home, along with their names and detailed information about them such as their relationship to you, marital status, race and their physical, mental and emotional problems, etc. The survey also asks how many bedrooms and bathrooms you have in your house, along with the fuel used to heat your home, the cost of electricity, what type of mortgage you have and monthly mortgage payments, property taxes and so on.

However, that’s not all.

The survey also demands to know how many days you were sick last year, how many automobiles you own and the number of miles driven, whether you have trouble getting up the stairs, and what time you leave for work every morning, along with highly detailed inquiries about your financial affairs. And the survey demands that you violate the privacy of others by supplying the names and addresses of your friends, relatives and employer. The questionnaire also demands that you give other information on the people in your home, such as their educational levels, how many years of school were completed, what languages they speak and when they last worked at a job, among other things.

While some of the ACS’ questions may seem fairly routine, the real danger is in not knowing why the information is needed, how it will be used by the government or with whom it will be shared.

Finally, you have the right to say “no.”

Whether police are knocking on your door at 2 am or 2:30 pm, as long as you’re being “asked” to talk to a police officer who is armed to the teeth and inclined to kill at the least provocation, you don’t really have much room to resist, not if you value your life.

Mind you, these knock-and-talk searches are little more than police fishing expeditions carried out without a warrant.

The goal is intimidation and coercion.

Unfortunately, with police departments increasingly shifting towards pre-crime policing and relying on dubious threat assessments, behavioral sensing warnings, flagged “words,” and “suspicious” activity reports aimed at snaring potential enemies of the state, we’re going to see more of these warrantless knock-and-talk police tactics by which police attempt to circumvent the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement and prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures.

Here’s the bottom line.

These agents are coming to your home with one purpose in mind: to collect information on you.

It’s a form of intimidation, of course. You shouldn’t answer any questions you’re uncomfortable answering about your vaccine history or anything else. The more information you give them, the more it can be used against you. Just ask them politely but firmly to leave.

In this case, as in so many interactions with government agents, the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments (and your cell phone recording the encounter) are your best protection.

Under the First Amendment, you don’t have to speak (to government officials or anyone else). The Fourth Amendment protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures by the government. And under the Fifth Amendment, you have a right to remain silent and not say anything which might be used against you.

You can also post a “No Trespassing” sign on your property to firmly announce that you are exercising your right to be left alone. If you see government officials wandering around your property and peering through windows, in my opinion, you have a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Government officials can ring the doorbell, but once you put them on notice that it’s time for them to leave, they can’t stay on your property.

It’s important to be as clear as possible and inform them that you will call the police if they don’t leave. You may also wish to record your encounter with the government agent. If they still don’t leave, immediately call the local police and report a trespasser on your property.

Remember, you have rights.

The government didn’t want us to know about—let alone assert—those rights during this whole COVID-19 business.

After all, for years now, the powers-that-be—those politicians and bureaucrats who think like tyrants and act like petty dictators regardless of what party they belong to—have attempted to brainwash us into believing that we have no right to think for ourselves, make decisions about our health, protect our homes and families and businesses, act in our best interests, demand accountability and transparency from government, or generally operate as if we are in control of our own lives.

But we have every right, and you know why?

Because as the Declaration of Independence states, we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights—to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness—that no government can take away from us.

Unfortunately, that hasn’t stopped the government from constantly trying to usurp our freedoms at every turn. Indeed, the nature of government is such that it invariably oversteps its limits, abuses its authority, and flexes its totalitarian muscles.

Take this COVID-19 crisis, for example.

What started out as an apparent effort to prevent a novel coronavirus from sickening the nation (and the world) has become yet another means by which world governments (including our own) can expand their powers, abuse their authority, and further oppress their constituents.

The government has made no secret of its plans.

Just follow the money trail, and you’ll get a sense of what’s in store: more militarized police, more SWAT team raids, more surveillance, more lockdowns, more strong-armed tactics aimed at suppressing dissent and forcing us to comply with the government’s dictates.

It’s chilling to think about, but it’s not surprising.

In many ways, this COVID-19 state of emergency has invested government officials (and those who view their lives as more valuable than ours) with a sanctimonious, self-righteous, arrogant, Big Brother Knows Best approach to top-down governing, and the fall-out can be seen far and wide.

It’s an ugly, self-serving mindset that views the needs, lives and rights of “we the people” as insignificant when compared to those in power.

That’s how someone who should know better such as Alan Dershowitz, a former Harvard law professor, can suggest that a free people—born in freedom, endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights, and living in a country birthed out of a revolutionary struggle for individual liberty—have no rights to economic freedom, to bodily integrity, or to refuse to comply with a government order with which they disagree.

According to Dershowitz, who has become little more than a legal apologist for the power elite, “You have no right not to be vaccinated, you have no right not to wear a mask, you have no right to open up your business… And if you refuse to be vaccinated, the state has the power to literally take you to a doctor’s office and plunge a needle into your arm.”

Dershowitz is wrong: as I make clear in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, while the courts may increasingly defer to the government’s brand of Nanny State authoritarianism, we still have rights._

The government may try to abridge those rights, it may refuse to recognize them, it may even attempt to declare martial law and nullify them, but it cannot litigate, legislate or forcefully eradicate them out of existence.''









						The Right to Be Let Alone: What to Do When COVID Strike Force Teams Come Knocking | By John W. Whitehead & Nisha Whitehead
					

A federal COVID-19 vaccination strike force may soon be knocking on your door, especially if you live in a community with low vaccination rates. Will you let them in? More to the point, are you required to open the door?




					www.rutherford.org


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## alang1216 (Jul 16, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> 
> John W. Whitehead’s weekly commentaries are available for publication to newspapers and web publications at no charge. Please contact staff@rutherford.org to obtain reprint permission.
> 
> ...


"Strike Force"??  Will they have bullet-proof vests or just flyers with vaccination info?


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## Pete7469 (Jul 16, 2021)

Dress up and fuck with them...


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## Mac1958 (Jul 16, 2021)

alang1216 said:


> "Strike Force"??  Will they have bullet-proof vests or just flyers with vaccination info?


It's probably what these folks are being told in their universe.


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## alang1216 (Jul 16, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> alang1216 said:
> 
> 
> > "Strike Force"??  Will they have bullet-proof vests or just flyers with vaccination info?
> ...


And the Right accuses the Left of scare tactics.


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## Tax Man (Jul 16, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> 
> John W. Whitehead’s weekly commentaries are available for publication to newspapers and web publications at no charge. Please contact staff@rutherford.org to obtain reprint permission.
> 
> ...


llWhat a load of crap! Someone rings your doorbell and you answer the door. They ask if you are vaccinated and respond appropriately to your reply. end of story


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## Mac1958 (Jul 16, 2021)

alang1216 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > alang1216 said:
> ...


These people are absolutely petrified of needles, imagined commies and darker-skinned immigrants.

It's a state of perpetual paranoia, courtesy of talk radio and their internet.


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## JackOfNoTrades (Jul 16, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> 
> John W. Whitehead’s weekly commentaries are available for publication to newspapers and web publications at no charge. Please contact staff@rutherford.org to obtain reprint permission.
> 
> ...



Sooo, going around house to house combatting misinformation and asking people to get vaccinated is a "strike force"? Somebody's been watching a few too many action movies. 
Here's the bottom line. You have individual rights. However, those rights, essentially end at the tip of your nose. As has been pointed out
multiple times, you don't have the individual right to spread a virus and infect and affect your fellow citizen. Plus, you should be all in on
getting the vax because it will allow you to get back to the "normal" you knuckleheads have been bitching about for the last 1.5 years.


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## EvilCat Breath (Jul 16, 2021)

For one thing the strike force is very careful not to be government agents.  They are all volunteer activists.  They have been trained to carefully skirt actual questions.  They are there to inform the hesitant.  Recently  I learned that they will be empowered to actually administer the injections.  Uh uh. No way.


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## Ringtone (Jul 16, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> alang1216 said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...


Leftist Gaslighting Alert!


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## Alan Stallion (Jul 16, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Unlike the traditional census, which collects data every ten years, the American Community Survey (ACS) is sent to about 3 million homes per year at a reported cost of hundreds of millions of dollars. Moreover, while the traditional census is limited to ascertaining the number of persons living in each dwelling, their ages and ethnicities, the ownership of the dwelling and telephone numbers, the ACS is much more intrusive, asking questions relating to respondents’ bathing habits, home utility costs, fertility, marital history, work commute, mortgage, and health insurance, among other highly personal and private matters.
> 
> Individuals who receive the ACS must complete it or be subject to monetary penalties...


Got one of those prior to Census2020. Got filed appropriately, in the trash bin. Have yet to be fined for that, nor for only answering the only legitimate question of the last three decennial censuses, # of people (for apportionment purposes for representation). Everything else falls under "right to privacy."


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## pknopp (Jul 16, 2021)

One thing I've learned to do to reduce stress is to not stress over something I will never actually have to deal with.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 16, 2021)

Relevant reading...


_"If there is one rule liberty minded people need to remember, it is that the establishment does not like losing control of the narrative. And when they do, noticeably weird things start to happen. For example, it is becoming painfully obvious that the narrative on the experimental mRNA “vaccines” has slipped right through the fingers of the Biden Administration, and as a consequence they are now in a scramble to get millions of vaccines injected into as many skeptical arms as possible before the public organizes for a full push-back against the agenda..."_


Continued _- _Biden’s Vaccine “Strike Force” Plan Stinks Of Desperation


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 16, 2021)

Alan Stallion said:


> Got one of those prior to Census2020. Got filed appropriately, in the trash bin. Have yet to be fined for that, nor for only answering the only legitimate question of the last three decennial censuses, # of people (for apportionment purposes for representation). Everything else falls under "right to privacy."



Yeah, same here.


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## Alan Stallion (Jul 16, 2021)

Mac1958:


> These people are absolutely petrified of needles


Projection.



> imagined commies


Whilst "volunteers" may have their perceived altruistic reasons for going door-to-door on this issue, many I'm sure would fall into the category of progressive collectivists and would have no problem with putting unresponsive or those who are refusing to get this vaccination on a list. What they will do with this "list," you and I don't know. But I'm sure it'll be justified as for "our best interests", whether we want it or not. I choose freedom.



> and darker-skinned immigrants.


Projection, and dishonesty at that. 

Please try harder at making arguments.


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## EvilCat Breath (Jul 16, 2021)

Tell the activists that you know they are communist democrats and fuck off someplace else.


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## Alan Stallion (Jul 16, 2021)




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## Pete7469 (Jul 16, 2021)

Alan Stallion said:


> Mac1958:
> 
> 
> > These people are absolutely petrified of needles
> ...


Bed wetters like Mac would have no problem with commissars going door to door taking your food.

Just not HIS food, so he'd join the NKVD and make sure he was protected.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 16, 2021)

Alan Stallion said:


> Mac1958:
> 
> 
> > These people are absolutely petrified of needles
> ...



Well said, Alan.

Putting that aside, it seems like this will more likely be focused on election canvassing with the medical stuff serving as a trojan horse.

I say this because I've done that in two general elections and am familiar with the scope of questions they're asking.

That's something I haven't seen mentioned on the board. Of course, I haven't been hanging around here lately either. Maybe it has. I dunno. But that's largely what this is about. It's clear to anyone with experience doing that.


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## Hellbilly (Jul 16, 2021)

Its this simple.


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## Alan Stallion (Jul 16, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Alan Stallion said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958:
> ...



I hadn't thought about tying it in with election canvassing, but that's a good point.

At present time in California, we have two months until the Recall Election of Governor Gavin Newsom. Even though some Democrats had signed the recall petition, Newsom's supporters can at least use this trojan horse to try to shore up his base.


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## Infallible Arbiter (Jul 16, 2021)

how fun, toying with communists - 

_That's Entertainment!_


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## Billy_Kinetta (Jul 16, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> ...


My reply will be "The information you seek is between me and my doctor.  Goodbye."


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## JackOfNoTrades (Jul 16, 2021)

Alan Stallion said:


> View attachment 513573



Umm...that should read...Have You Accepted Donald John Trump as your savior? LOL.


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## EvilCat Breath (Jul 16, 2021)

Sorry I don't talk to communists.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Jul 16, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> ...


You still answer your door?


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## alang1216 (Jul 16, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Relevant reading...
> 
> 
> _"If there is one rule liberty minded people need to remember, it is that the establishment does not like losing control of the narrative. And when they do, noticeably weird things start to happen. For example, it is becoming painfully obvious that the narrative on the experimental mRNA “vaccines” has slipped right through the fingers of the Biden Administration, and as a consequence they are now in a scramble to get millions of vaccines injected into as many skeptical arms as possible before the public organizes for a full push-back against the agenda..."_
> ...


Why would Biden care if people got the mRNA vaccines?  What would he gain?


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## Infallible Arbiter (Jul 17, 2021)

Tell the commies, "I don't believe in your covid conspiracy theory".


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## Infallible Arbiter (Jul 17, 2021)

alang1216 said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > Relevant reading...
> ...


the whore-clown is a sock-puppet of the pharma globalist pimps. 
he will tow the line


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## Tax Man (Jul 17, 2021)

Yes, I answer the door. I also have my vaccine passport in hand.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 17, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> 
> John W. Whitehead’s weekly commentaries are available for publication to newspapers and web publications at no charge. Please contact staff@rutherford.org to obtain reprint permission.
> 
> ...


The thread premise is a lie, unreliable source,  strawman fallacy.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 17, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> Yes, I answer the door. I also have my vaccine passport in hand.


Or don't answer the door.

The end.

Non-issue.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 17, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The thread premise is a lie, unreliable source,  strawman fallacy.



The source is a highy respected constitutional attorney. And the material precisely germane to the isue at hand, particularly to those unlike yourself who actually possess some semblance of a grasp on constitutional issues and the whole of their Individual liberties.


You're certainly free to go hold up your sign some place, though.


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## Natural Citizen (Jul 17, 2021)

Anyway. As I'd mentioned , I'm fairly confident that this is nothing more than a trojan horse, community organizer type of agenda for election canvassing and further ballot harvesting moving into the next cycle.

The whole of the questions they're asking make it perfectly clear what they're actually doing.

Anyone with even minimal experience in elections can spot what they're up to from a mile away. It's actually rather clever, irrelevant of the transparency of not allowing  yet another perfectly good crisis go to waste.


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## justoffal (Jul 17, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> ...


There is no need to respond at all.  Indeed the knowledge of a person's vaccination status is a private matter and there is absolutely no reason to answer either yes or no.  Since either answer can come with some adverse effect a person is well within in their rights to politely decline any conversation about it.

JO


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## alang1216 (Jul 17, 2021)

Infallible Arbiter said:


> alang1216 said:
> 
> 
> > Why would Biden care if people got the mRNA vaccines?  What would he gain?
> ...


So many accusations, accompanied by no evidence whatsoever.  I see who you are a sock-puppet of.


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## Infallible Arbiter (Jul 17, 2021)

alang1216 said:


> Infallible Arbiter said:
> 
> 
> > alang1216 said:
> ...


how long has your brain been a whore pimped-out by globalist chickenshit?


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## alang1216 (Jul 17, 2021)

Infallible Arbiter said:


> alang1216 said:
> 
> 
> > Infallible Arbiter said:
> ...


Sticks and stones my friend.  You'd get more respect if you could back up what you say and not just parrot what you've been told.  You need to grow up.


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## freyasman (Jul 18, 2021)

This could be fun actually; answer no questions and refuse to confirm anything, not even your name, then ask them to show some ID, film the entire encounter, find out _their_ addresses (if it's on the ID they show, great. If not, it's not hard to get from a little time on the internet), and then go to _their_ houses and ask _them_ a bunch of questions.
*"Do all your smoke alarms work?"*, "*When was the last time you tested them?*", and *"Do you have a guard dog?"* are always fun ones, IMO.


If going to people's homes and asking intrusive questions is okay, then it's okay for everyone to do it, right?


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## justinacolmena (Jul 23, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> that is at odds with what Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis referred to as the constitutional “right to be let alone.”


So you get buggered in the butt by your prison cell mate if they don't hold you in solitary confinement.


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## miketx (Jul 26, 2021)




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## WTF19 (Jul 26, 2021)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Sooo, going around house to house combatting misinformation and asking people to get vaccinated is a "strike force"? Somebody's been watching a few too many action movies.
> Here's the bottom line. You have individual rights. However, those rights, essentially end at the tip of your nose. As has been pointed out
> multiple times, you don't have the individual right to spread a virus and infect and affect your fellow citizen. Plus, you should be all in on
> getting the vax because it will allow you to get back to the "normal" you knuckleheads have been bitching about for the last 1.5 years.


well, you don't have the right to make anybody's mind up...you are 'vaccinated'  you can't contract the chinese flu (lol)
MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS
you are worse than a knucklehead, you are a pathetic piece of  shit...anti-AMERICA brain dead reject


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## TheParser (Jul 26, 2021)

This is a very serious topic.

I am not yet vaccinated.

It's due to a  fear of side effects & just simple inertia.

Actually, I am inching closer to getting vaccinated.

We are being told by the powers-that-be that October will be the crunch.

Then maybe the numbers will decrease until a few months later another variant appears and the numbers rise again. And the hospitals will see more cases and deaths.

So if the agents knock on my door and politely ask me to get vaccinated, I might readily agree -- especially if there's a mobile unit with them so that I can just walk into the van and get a vaccine.

*****


P.S. What I am waiting for is  the introduction of a pill that one can take instead of getting a shot in the arm. A pill that can be sent to one's home.  But I guess that is far off or never.



P.P.S.  Yes, a "few" people will have serious side effects or maybe even die, but I guess that is the risk that we are expected to take for the sake of the country.

P.P.P.S. I hope Mr. Biden would stop the entry of so many ladies and gentlemen and children at the southern border, for some of them -- I hear -- already have COVID.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jul 26, 2021)

TheParser said:


> This is a very serious topic.
> 
> I am not yet vaccinated.
> 
> ...


People should be able to make their own decision. I've no issue with what people choose to do. It's none of my business. That's genuinely how I feel about it.

Thing about these so-called covid vaccinations is that they're the reason the variants are evolving. The so-called vaccines are why herd immunity can't be achieved. People who consume the products are still carrying the virus around, They're still transmitting it. What's disturbing is that they have effectively stopped counting 'vaccinated' people in the death counts so we see a lot of propaganda being regurgitated about people who haven't taken the covid shot being the issue, when the polar opposite scenario is actually the case. And I believe these so-called vacccines only work for around 7 months. Face it, there;s no money in curing anything any more. We just treat things these days. Of course, we won't see much discussed about that on mainstream echo chambers like this.

But whatever. Like I said, people can do what they want. It's none of my business.

I shook over two hundred hands in a closed environment the other day.  I think one person had a mask on. Maybe two. No idea whether anyone had been administered any of these pharmaceutical products or not.  Does it really matter when they can still carry it around and transmit it anyway?And masks tell you right on the box tha tthey donlt protect against covid.

Variants are going to continue evolving as long as these temporary products are being administered. That's the science of it.

It's like a revolving door.

Nice gig to have going on if one is in the business and are provided a captive market at the barrel of a government gun. Mandates certainly do encourage these companies to use their political influence to expand the amount of vaccine mandates. Or if one is in the business of government run health care system like the fascist Obamacare thing. Fascists are always gonna try to fascist, no matter what. If you give em an inch they'll fir sure take a mile. This is the difference between political science and actual science.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jul 26, 2021)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> As has been pointed out multiple times, you don't have the individual right to spread a virus and infect and affect your fellow citizen.



Educate yourself. Your'e a carrier whether you've consumed the product or not. As was mentioned, you're actually the reason for the variants.



JackOfNoTrades said:


> Plus, you should be all in on
> getting the vax because it will allow you to get back to the "normal" you knuckleheads have been bitching about for the last 1.5 years.



I never stopped living normally.

Perhaps consider a re-evaluation of the company you keep. Heh heh.


----------



## TheParser (Jul 26, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> People should be able to make their own decision. I've no issue with what people choose to do. It's none of my business. That's genuinely how I feel about it.
> 
> Thing about these so-called covid vaccinations is that they're the reason the variants are evolving. The so-called vaccines are why herd immunity can't be achieved. People who consume the products are still carrying the virus around, They're still transmitting it. What's disturbing is that they have effectively stopped counting 'vaccinated' people in the death counts so we see a lot of propaganda about people who haven't taken the covid shot being the issue. And I blieve these so-called vacccines only work for around 7 months. Of course, we won't see much discused about that on mainstream echo chambers like this.
> 
> ...



I found your second paragraph *very* thought-provoking. You stated some ideas that I have never heard before.

I am glad that you were allowed to post those comments here.

I hear that at places like Facebook and Twitter (both of which I have never visited), your comments might be considered "misinformation" and thus prohibited.

I admit that the powers-that-be are convincing me that I should get vaccinated.  They seem to be very sincere people who do not want anyone to unnecessarily suffer hospitalization (including a respirator) or death.

Also, the media have carried stories about people who were so-called anti-vaxxers but got sick and now confess that they were wrong.

Our local TV stations are featuring local doctors imploring people to get vaccinated.

We are told that we need at least 70% to get vaccinated before reaching something like herd immunity, many sources say.

Here in Los Angeles, a local radio station has been giving air time to a doctor (whom some people call a quack, although Twitter apparently allows her to post there) called Dr. Kelly Victory. She is NOT an anti-vaxxer, but she disagrees strongly with some measures mandated by the powers-that-be.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jul 26, 2021)

TheParser said:


> I found your second paragraph very thought-provoking. You stated some ideas that I have never heard before.
> 
> I am glad that you were allowed to post those comments here.
> 
> ...



I don't normally post an entire article. The author just happens to be a constitutional attorney who frequents the same circles. It's not so hard to shoot an email and ask for permission to reprint. It's not like he's going to say no. And verifying it would be a waste of time given that fact. 

I believe the forum rule exists in order to discourage copywrite infringement. Not to censor debatable content.

Still, though, I don't make a habit out of it. 

Anyway. I've never doubted the reality of the virus itself. It's certainly real.

The fact that the Biden administration is functioning in synergy with social media platforms with regard to what is and isnlt permitted in terms of information is disturbing to me in so far as they're actually deleting and banning actual professionals in the field. Even the creators of some of these procedures, oddly enough.

They're certainly not very interested in encouraging substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view, to steal a quote from the late Sagan. In fact, they're actively shutting it down. What would people say if the administration told Amazon what books they could and couldn't sell? That's a serious question. Is it any different than what's going on with these social media platforms? Not at all.

I don't pay much attention to the white noise out in the wild, wild web, to be honest. Seem like just a bunch of dick waving back and forth. Nothing good can come from it. Nor will it.

The biggest issue for me in all of this is not really the medical argument anyway.

For me it's a matter of keeping the government 'strictly limited' as the founders intended. That's really all I talk about if anyone actually reads what I type.

I don't get into the "vaxxer'' vs ''anti-vaxxer'' smut. And that's almost always what it is. It's a bunch of smut.

Whatever you decide to do, don't feel like you owe it to anyone. Do it because you believe you should or should not. It's nobody elses business.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jul 26, 2021)

Probably one of the best reads on the topic of "The Science"

A few rules borrowed from Carl Sagan's book  "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" in a chapter titled "The Fine Art of Baloney Detection," Sagan reflects on the many types of deception to which we’re susceptible.

The Baloney Detection Kit: Carl Sagan’s Rules for Bullshit-Busting and Critical Thinking


Read through these warning signs of deception and really think about how many times in the course of a day on the web that people employ these deceptive tactics in order to own a narrative or whatever. Particularly with this issue since so many professional and arm chair political scientists have effectively bastardized actual science by invoking politically loaded terms of controversy with regard to "following the science."


----------



## freyasman (Jul 26, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> People should be able to make their own decision. I've no issue with what people choose to do. It's none of my business. That's genuinely how I feel about it.
> 
> Thing about these so-called covid vaccinations is that they're the reason the variants are evolving. The so-called vaccines are why herd immunity can't be achieved. People who consume the products are still carrying the virus around, They're still transmitting it. What's disturbing is that they have effectively stopped counting 'vaccinated' people in the death counts so we see a lot of propaganda being regurgitated about people who haven't taken the covid shot being the issue, when the polar opposite scenario is actually the case. And I believe these so-called vacccines only work for around 7 months. Face it, there;s no money in curing anything any more. We just treat things these days. Of course, we won't see much discussed about that on mainstream echo chambers like this.
> 
> ...


----------



## freyasman (Jul 26, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Probably one of the best reads on the topic of "The Science"
> 
> A few rules borrowed from Carl Sagan's book  "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" in a chapter titled "The Fine Art of Baloney Detection," Sagan reflects on the many types of deception to which we’re susceptible.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link.


----------



## JackOfNoTrades (Jul 26, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Educate yourself. Your'e a carrier whether you've consumed the product or not. As was mentioned, you're actually the reason for the variants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, no idea what reality you live in. Stop consuming alt-right media. Shit rots your brain.
The *unvaccinated *serve as vectors for the virus and petri dishes to make new variants.
If you choose not to believe it, that's not our issue.


----------



## freyasman (Jul 26, 2021)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Again, no idea what reality you live in. Stop consuming alt-right media. Shit rots your brain.
> The *unvaccinated *serve as vectors for the virus and petri dishes to make new variants.
> If you choose not to believe it, that's not our issue.


I never locked down; I was out and about, roaming around and going about my business, throughout this entire shit-show. And I worked in a hospital, in the ER, in downtown Houston, so I had a front row seat for all the festivities....... and you know what I saw?

Nothing much.

I never saw a bunch of sick or dying people everywhere, coughing their lives away, like the TV told me were all over the place.
I didn't even see any increase in the ER, to speak of.


I saw a lot of scared people freaking out and spazzing about masks and hand sanitizer, though. But I never saw any _actual_ reason for any of it, just lots and lots of stories about this is what *"they" *said.

And after about the first month of this nonsense, I started questioning why, if this is a real "pandemic", and we don't know anything about it, *then why weren't they testing the ER personnel?*
If you lack data and are _really_ trying to figure this out, in regards to transmission, and severity, and even lethality, wouldn't that be some pretty useful information to have?

And if they're _not_ doing it, then what does _that_ tell you?






So I don't believe the bullshit that so many of you are getting from the news and spreading everywhere. I believe what I see with my own eyes, and what I see, is that there is nothing to be afraid of.

Except for maybe the people who are working so hard to scare us all. We should probably keep an eye on _those_ fuckers.

Just saying.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jul 27, 2021)

Well said.  Sad that so many people have begun outsourcing their every waking thought to the MSM.


----------



## petro (Jul 27, 2021)




----------



## petro (Jul 27, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Educate yourself. Your'e a carrier whether you've consumed the product or not. As was mentioned, you're actually the reason for the variants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Short of wearing a mask for ten minutes only to respect the businesses that were forced into hysterical policies by Nanny Statists, my life went on as normal. Worked everyday as essential in construction, had gatherings with friends and relatives, went on camping and on fishing trips, hugged people and (gasp) still shook hands, and never felt any concern about my health. 
The stores didn't frighten me, I felt no need to vigorously scrub my cart with wipes or hand sanitize till my skin was raw.
Frankly my life is in far more danger during my daily commute from idiots not paying attention.
They are probably posting on their phones lecturing others about putting people in danger.

None of this barrage of propaganda is convincing people. Jesus, the news was just on and they are just pouring on the messaging. Immediately repeated in endless threads, word for word by the shills here. I want more information, all of it. Not just the government narrative.


----------



## petro (Jul 27, 2021)

freyasman said:


> I never locked down; I was out and about, roaming around and going about my business, throughout this entire shit-show. And I worked in a hospital, in the ER, in downtown Houston, so I had a front row seat for all the festivities....... and you know what I saw?
> 
> Nothing much.
> 
> ...


Why, if this was so hazardous, were used masks not considered a biohazard and red bagged for disposal in an incinerator?
Instead, they were tossed in the trash or on the street with everything else.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jul 28, 2021)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Again, no idea what reality you live in. Stop consuming alt-right media. Shit rots your brain.
> The *unvaccinated *serve as vectors for the virus and petri dishes to make new variants.
> If you choose not to believe it, that's not our issue.



I just go by what your own so-called experts are saying, winger.

They just issued mandatory homeland security masking based on CDC 'recommendations' btw.

Wanna know why? Well, you're in luck...

*CDC Director Rochelle Walensky defended the new mask guidance on Tuesday by stating that officials believe vaccinated people infected with the delta variant of the coronavirus can still spread it to others, *_*and may carry higher levels of the virus than the unvaccinated.*_


Ever hear the one about the hunter and the bear, JackOf? 









						A hunter goes into the woods to hunt a bear. He... - Unijokes.com
					

See whole joke: A hunter goes into the woods to hunt a bear. He ...continued on Unijokes.com




					unijokes.com
				




Heh heh.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jul 28, 2021)

Amateurs. Gosh love em...


----------



## Rigby5 (Jul 29, 2021)

alang1216 said:


> "Strike Force"??  Will they have bullet-proof vests or just flyers with vaccination info?



Or will they unknowingly be carrying the virus with them, as they go from infected homes to uninfected homes, touching door knobs and spraying mucus while talking to people?


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jul 29, 2021)

A "NO TRESPASSING" sign and the option of just not answering the door.  Yep, sounds right.


----------



## alang1216 (Jul 29, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Or will they unknowingly be carrying the virus with them, as they go from infected homes to uninfected homes, touching door knobs and spraying mucus while talking to people?


I'm sure they'll be well protected.


----------



## Ben Thomson (Aug 2, 2021)

alang1216 said:


> "Strike Force"??  Will they have bullet-proof vests or just flyers with vaccination info?


I think someone decided to use the term 'strike force' to identify the response teams that will go to high infection areas to help coordinate efforts to track infections and get as many people vaccinated as possible. The anti-vaxers have portrayed this into fear mongering scenario of black helicopters with masked men forcing their way into your home to hold you down while they vaccinate you.


----------



## Pellinore (Aug 3, 2021)

TheParser said:


> I found your second paragraph *very* thought-provoking. You stated some ideas that I have never heard before.
> 
> I am glad that you were allowed to post those comments here.
> 
> I hear that at places like Facebook and Twitter (both of which I have never visited), your comments might be considered "misinformation" and thus prohibited.


Be careful.  He just rattled off a bunch of unverified, unsupported ideas that are, to say the least, a minority opinion (to say the most, life-threatening quackery), and you seem to have accepted it with no question, and then criticized others for limiting its reach.  I encourage you to insist on science.


----------



## Esdraelon (Aug 9, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> Yes, I answer the door. I also have my vaccine passport in hand.


You sound quite chuffed with yourself.  Tell me something... if Trump had been re-elected and it was HIS CDC and NIH that was putting out feelers to see the public mood for vaccine mandates, would you still be cheerfully waiting to comply when they said:
*Zeig mir deine Papiere! ?*

If these canvassers knock on my door I will greet them courteously and briefly explain that their time will be spent more productively, somewhere else.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

Pellinore said:


> I encourage you to insist on science.



I would encourage your group to actually provide a scientific record of any kind.

In fact, what is_ never _mentioned in mainstream media in the West or almost anywhere in the world is the scientific record of the major global vaccine making pharmaceutical giants.

To say our CDC director has been in her field for twenty years isn't what we'd all call a scientific record, but does routinely seem to be the fallback response when asked for the scientific record.

So. That said. "The Science"

Where is it? What is it? What is the science?

Do you even understand the very nature of science itself?

Given the stark reality that the very nature of science emands that there are always more questions to be askerd, it seems to me, and anyone with an ounce of common sense, that there is no such thing as "the science". It's being used as nothing more than a catch phrase by what are effectively tenured political scientists.

The only real thing they're a acomplishing in that is bastadizing genuine science and driving people to lose trust in genuine science.

Anyway. Placing all of this aside, which doesn't by any means forward the notion that I'm done with those terms of controversy, I'll ask again.

Please provide for the group the scientific record of the major global vaccine making pharmaceutical giants. 

Thanks!


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> These people are absolutely petrified of needles, imagined commies and darker-skinned immigrants.
> 
> It's a state of perpetual paranoia, courtesy of talk radio and their internet.


Versus those other people whom are too emotional and too ignorant to know they should be "petrified" of experimental vaccines, people in power pushing/supporting commie shit and dark ILLEGAL immigrants whom destroy EVERY place they inhabit?


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> Versus those other people whom are too emotional and too ignorant to know they should be "petrified" of experimental vaccines, people in power pushing/supporting commie shit and dark ILLEGAL immigrants whom destroy EVERY place they inhabit?


Yes!


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> Yes!


Oh, hey, it's Mac. 

Mac, will you provide for the group the scientific record of the major global vaccine making pharmaceutical giants?

Thanks!


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Oh, hey, it's Mac.
> 
> Mac, will you provide for the group the scientific record of the major global vaccine making pharmaceutical giants?
> 
> Thanks!


He can't...so he won't ofcourse.
But his extreme case of FEELZ tells him he should follow Father Governments orders on this one....right Mac1958 ?


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

The door to door thing is not armed gov't agents forcing anyone to get the vaccine.

It is volunteers putting out information, and possibly offering the vaccine.    Talk about making mountains out of molehills.   This kind of fear mongering is disgusting.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> The door to door thing is not armed gov't agents forcing anyone to get the vaccine.
> 
> It is volunteers putting out information, and possibly offering the vaccine.    Talk about making mountains out of molehills.   This kind of fear mongering is disgusting.



I'm afraid it's a tad deeper than that, WB.

In fact, it's almost as if it's an election canvassing campaign, judging by some of the questions. That's a bit of a different discusion, but it is directly germane here since we have political scientists functioning in the name of science.

For the moment, however, I'm content to keep the topical relevant to the former rather than the latter.


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

I can see this turning bad due to the fear mongering.

Volunteers going around knocking on doors trying to convince people to get vaccinated.    No armed gov't agents, just volunteers.    And the work is to convince people, not force them.

But some lunatic will end up shooting one of these volunteers.    And the real shit will start.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> The door to door thing is not armed gov't agents forcing anyone to get the vaccine.
> 
> It is volunteers putting out information, and possibly offering the vaccine.    Talk about making mountains out of molehills.   This kind of fear mongering is disgusting.


That's an awfully myopic perspective....just the way Father Government likes it I'm sure.


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> I'm afraid it's a tad deeper than that, WB.



Is it?   I have seen nothing from any reputable source saying that the people going door to door will be armed gov't agents.   Do you have a reputable source that says that?


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> But some lunatic will end up shooting one of these volunteers. And the real shit will start.


I pray to God that you are right.


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 9, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Oh, hey, it's Mac.
> 
> Mac, will you provide for the group the scientific record of the major global vaccine making pharmaceutical giants?
> 
> Thanks!


I don't know what you mean.

And why would I do whatever that is, precisely?


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> That's an awfully myopic perspective....just the way Father Government likes it I'm sure.



Myopic?   I am going by the articles I have read.     "Armed agents" is not mentioned.


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> I pray to God...


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> I pray to God that you are right.



I pray to God I am wrong.    You should too.   It will mean your people will be going to prison.


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> He can't...so he won't ofcourse.
> But his extreme case of FEELZ tells him he should follow Father Governments orders on this one....right Mac1958 ?


I don't know why you guys are so pissy, when I support your right to not get vaccinated and I'm against mandates.

You're terribly sensitive.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> And why would I do whatever that is, precisely?


Playing stupid again I see...I'll play along 
He's asking you to share the reports from the completed clinical trials from the vaccine makers?
I mean, only a rat would volunteer to be a lab rat...right?


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> I pray to God that you are right.



And this is why the DHS is worried about violence from Trump supporters without having any specific intel to supports it.

Praying to God that there will be people shooting at volunteers trying to *convince* people to get the vaccine???


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> And this is why the DHS is worried about violence from Trump supporters without having any specific intel to supports it.
> 
> Praying to God that there will be people shooting at volunteers trying to *convince* people to get the vaccine???


I'm hoping for anything to incite the clash that needs to happen, that has to happen.


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> Playing stupid again I see...I'll play along
> He's asking you to share the reports from the completed clinical trials from the vaccine makers?
> I mean, only a rat would volunteer to be a lab rat...right?


I support your right to not get vaccinated, and I'm against mandates.

Anything else?  Or you do want to keep pretending that I'm fighting you on something?


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

I've been spending a great deal of time researching the history, and in some cases literal crimes, of these pharmaceutical companies lately.

I'm likely going to outline these some time in the near future. Oh, it's gonna be a real hoot. Oh yes indeed!

But in the mean time, did you all know that Moderna, unlike J&J or Pfizer, has yet to be sued for illegal practices?

True story.

*The fact of the matter is that before its EUA for its mRNA experimental vaccine, in its entire ten years existence since 2010, Moderna has failed to get FDA approval to market a single medicine, despite repeated failed attempts.*


However....

Moderna and Fauci’s NIAID have collaborated on development of vaccines using Moderna’s mRNA platform and NIAID of Fauci on coronaviruses including MERS, since at least November, 2015.

On January 13, 2020, before the first case of a supposed Wuhan, China “novel coronavirus” was even detected in the United States, Fauci’s NIAID and Moderna signed an updated cooperation agreement which described them as co-owners of a mRNA based coronavirus and that they had finalized a sequence for mRNA-1273, the vaccine now being given to millions for supposedly averting the novel coronavirus. That means that Fauci’s NIAID and perhaps Fauci personally (it’s allowed in the US) stood to reap huge financial benefits from emergency approval of the Moderna jab, yet Fauci has never admitted to the conflict publicly when he was Trump corona adviser, nor as Biden’s.

Ten days later on January 23, 2020 Moderna announced it was granted funding by CEPI, a vaccine fund created by Bill Gates’ foundation along with Davos WEF among others, to develop an mRNA vaccine for the Wuhan virus.


Which brings us back full circle to President Trump's Mr. Operation Warp Speed.


Or should we rather refer to it as Operation Foreknowledge?


Here's why...

Up to its receiving EUA approval for its covid mRNA product in December 2020 Moderna had only made losses since its founding. Then curiously, following a March 2020 personal meeting with then-President Trump where Bancel told the president Moderna could have a vaccine ready in a matter of months Moderna luck changed.

On May 15, Trump announced creation of Operation Warp Seed to rollout a COVID-19 vaccine by December. The head of the Presidential group was a 30-year R&D veteran of the large UK drug firm GSK, Moncef Slaoui. In 2017 Slaoui had resigned from GSK and joined the board of none other than Moderna. Under Slaoui’s Warp Speed, some $22 billion of US taxpayer money was thrown at different vaccine makers. Moderna was a prime recipient, a brazen conflict of interest but nobody seemed to care. Slaoui funneled some $2 billion in government funds to his old company, Moderna, to develop the mRNA covid vaccine. Only under public criticism did Slaoui sell his stock in Moderna, making millions in profit from Moderna’s role as a covid vaccine leading candidate. Shortly after resigning at the end of the Trump presidency, Slaoui was fired by his old firm GSK from a company subsidiary following charges of sexual harassment of a female employee.

In February 2020 Trump Secretary of Health and Human Services, Alex Azar, invoked the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (PREP) to exempt Moderna, Pfizer, J&J and any future covid makers from any and all liability arising from damage or death caused by their vaccines for the Wuhan coronavirus. The legal protection lasts until 2024. _*If the vaccines are so good and safe, why is such a measure needed?*_


Here's a link for that , btw... And We Should Trust ‘The Science’ of the Pharma Industry?


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> I support your right to not get vaccinated, and I'm against mandates.
> 
> Anything else?  Or you do want to keep pretending that I'm fighting you on something?


Playing coy?
I may be seeing things but I thought you just said this:
_*"These people are absolutely petrified of needles, imagined commies and darker-skinned immigrants.*_
*It's a state of perpetual paranoia, courtesy of talk radio and their internet."*

Are you not inferring that one is petrified if they don't partake in a lab experiment?
It seems the other way around to me....only a petrified individual would willingly take an experimental vaccine...right?


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> I don't know what you mean.
> 
> And why would I do whatever that is, precisely?



Of course, you don't.

It's why it's so disturbing when armchair political pundits pop off about "the science' around here.

And don't worry about why you would or wouldn't do that?

Reason being is that you can't. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. 

I just wanted the group to see that you had no idea what the scientific record actually meant in relation to the critical nature of the topical.

Thanks, Mac! You're swell!


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Myopic?   I am going by the articles I have read.     "Armed agents" is not mentioned.


Government is force!

We want as little of it ass possible.

The Founders agree.

In fact, they wrote it down as the very model for our Republic's heathy existence.

"Strictly limited"


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> Playing coy?
> I may be seeing things but I thought you just said this:
> _*"These people are absolutely petrified of needles, imagined commies and darker-skinned immigrants.*_
> *It's a state of perpetual paranoia, courtesy of talk radio and their internet."*
> ...


Absolutely!


----------



## Mac1958 (Aug 9, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Of course, you don't.
> 
> It's why it's so disturbing when armchair political pundits pop off about "the science' around here.
> 
> ...


You're so welcome!

And I still support your right to not get vaccinated and I'm still against mandates, too!


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Is it?   I have seen nothing from any reputable source saying that the people going door to door will be armed gov't agents.   Do you have a reputable source that says that?



Yeah. In time. At the moment, they're scrambling because the questions got out to some of our senators and congressmen. I guess they thought they were just gonna do wha tthey wanted and that nobody was going to question them about it.

So let's wait and see what they end up keeping and tossing, now that the question has been proposed to them why they're asking those specific questions.

I wouldn't post anything unless the sources were accurate, WB.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Aug 9, 2021)

Ah well. I have to do a proposal on a reconfig. Smell yuns later.


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> I'm hoping for anything to incite the clash that needs to happen, that has to happen.



Has to happen?   No, it doesn't.


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Government is force!
> 
> We want as little of it ass possible.
> 
> ...



And you think having volunteers come around to TALK to people about getting vaccinated is making the gov't bigger???

I am all for smaller gov't too.    But fear mongering about volunteers going around trying to convince people to get vaccinated is just pitiful.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Has to happen?   No, it doesn't.


Oh believe me it does....Core Americans want their country back from the filthy fucks in power who are working against them and their interests.


----------



## WinterBorn (Aug 9, 2021)

BrokeLoser said:


> Oh believe me it does....Core Americans want their country back from the filthy fucks in power who are working against them and their interests.



So you want American citizens to die because they volunteered to go door to door to talk about vaccinations?    And you have the audacity to call anyone else "filthy fucks"?

Yeah, I know what you want.    I am also willing to bet that you want someone else to start it, so you can stand by and see how it goes before you commit to it.   

I am not a fan of most of the elected officials in DC.   But I will stand against ANY one who thinks opening fire on volunteers is a good thing.   I will also happily weapon and stand against a coup by the lunatic fringe.


----------



## BrokeLoser (Aug 9, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> But I will stand against ANY one who thinks opening fire on volunteers is a good thing


I never said it was a "good thing".
Look, I'm thoroughly convinced that some crazy-ass chaotic shit has to happen in order to force change...I don't know what that may be, but I know good, real Americans are fed the fuck up...they're backed in the corner and ready to take a by any means necessary approach to this shit. Keep your popcorn close.


----------



## justoffal (Aug 9, 2021)

JackOfNoTrades said:


> Sooo, going around house to house combatting misinformation and asking people to get vaccinated is a "strike force"? Somebody's been watching a few too many action movies.
> Here's the bottom line. You have individual rights. However, those rights, essentially end at the tip of your nose. As has been pointed out
> multiple times, you don't have the individual right to spread a virus and infect and affect your fellow citizen. Plus, you should be all in on
> getting the vax because it will allow you to get back to the "normal" you knuckleheads have been bitching about for the last 1.5 years.


House to house is an intrusion upon privacy.  One simply needs to place a NO TRESSPASSING sign up to make legal action possible.  Unless of course the legislators decide to give the canvassing body the same type of immunity that the postal carriers have.....somehow I doubt that will happen.

JO


----------



## M14 Shooter (Aug 11, 2021)

What to Do When COVID Strike Force Teams Come Knocking​"No."
- Smith and Wesson


----------



## wamose (Aug 15, 2021)

We'll all be better off when Biden stops getting these wacked out ideas. Better yet, just give the Presidency back to the man who won it.


----------



## Flopper (Aug 21, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> 
> John W. Whitehead’s weekly commentaries are available for publication to newspapers and web publications at no charge. Please contact staff@rutherford.org to obtain reprint permission.
> 
> ...


First of all the state must request this assistance from the federal government.  I think the plan is for the task force to work with local public health personnel to provide information and help to people that are likely unvaccinated and maybe sick.  If I was unvaccinated and sick, I would certain open the door to these people to get a covid test and help if I tested positive.  Of course I'm really not concerned about tracking bots in the test kits or mind control substances in medications, nor secret government agendas.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Sep 10, 2021)

My old bass player lives in Montana. His two grown suns live not far from him.

None of them plan on getting the vaccine. My buddy has a mountain cabin where he vows they'll go once the government reps start knocking on people's doors, ensuring compliance.

This is the kind of guy who'll end up on the news when that happens...


----------



## Flopper (Sep 10, 2021)

Canon Shooter said:


> My old bass player lives in Montana. His two grown suns live not far from him.
> 
> None of them plan on getting the vaccine. My buddy has a mountain cabin where he vows they'll go once the government reps start knocking on people's doors, ensuring compliance.
> 
> This is the kind of guy who'll end up on the news when that happens...


It's not going to happen.  Biden's executive order is probably unconstitutional but there are many large employers, school districts, and universities  who will demand employees or students be vaccinated.   Even thou the constitutional foundation for the order is probably shaky at best, and it will be almost impossible to enforce, it will reduce the number unvaccinated significantly which is the plan.


----------



## Baron Von Murderpaws (Sep 10, 2021)

Billyboom said:


> View attachment 513574
> Its this simple.


*Yes it is...........

Don't open your door.*


----------



## Baron Von Murderpaws (Sep 10, 2021)

*I hear the Dementorats coming down the street!!!!!*


----------



## Ivan88 (Sep 28, 2021)

"The government may try to abridge those rights, it may refuse to recognize them, it may even attempt to declare martial law and nullify them, but it cannot litigate, legislate or forcefully eradicate them out of existence.'' (from post #1 by Natural Citizen)  Nice avatar  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



In their "war on drugs" they do all those things.  They even sue property, and confiscate it when it does not defend itself.
We have no Rights any more, We have privileges that can be revoked at will by bully crats. ps government comes from governedmen American Men had the right to regulate their public servants who consented to being regulated in order to get an official job.


----------



## Flopper (Oct 1, 2021)

Ivan88 said:


> "The government may try to abridge those rights, it may refuse to recognize them, it may even attempt to declare martial law and nullify them, but it cannot litigate, legislate or forcefully eradicate them out of existence.'' (from post #1 by Natural Citizen)  Nice avatar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The government is not making you take a vaccine now and it probably never will.  However, there is a price to pay if you go against the will of the goverment and vast the majority of the American people who have taken the vaccine and are encourage others to do so.  The price may be not being able to work for some employers or not being admitted to certain public events or retail establishments or using certainly public transports.

There are lots of things that government and society encourage you to do but don't require it by law such as registering with social security, registering to vote, getting and carrying identification, personal hygiene, reporting a crime, helping your neighbors.  However, like not getting a vaccination there is cost.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> llWhat a load of crap! Someone rings your doorbell and you answer the door. They ask if you are vaccinated and respond appropriately to your reply. end of story


Bwahahaha!! Look at the little obedient communist.

Why are they asking if I'm vaccinated? What business is it of the federal government? Please site the Article & Section of the US Constitution that places healthcare under the purview of the federal government.

Don't give me some bullshit "court precedence" answer. Courts don't make law. Tell me the Article and Section of the US Constitution that places healthcare under the purview of the federal government.

If you can't, STFU and delete your account.


----------



## Tax Man (Oct 24, 2021)

P@triot said:


> Bwahahaha!! Look at the little obedient communist.
> 
> Why are they asking if I'm vaccinated? What business is it of the federal government? Please site the Article & Section of the US Constitution that places healthcare under the purview of the federal government.
> 
> ...


"To promote the general welfare". Now you may have a problem with vaccines but you did take polio and rubella and flu vaccines. How do you feel now little boy?


----------



## Flopper (Oct 24, 2021)

P@triot said:


> Bwahahaha!! Look at the little obedient communist.
> 
> Why are they asking if I'm vaccinated? What business is it of the federal government? Please site the Article & Section of the US Constitution that places healthcare under the purview of the federal government.
> 
> ...


The government can ask the question and you are free not to answer.   The government can require masks and vaccinations to work for the government and you are free to work elsewhere.  The same applies to private businesses.  You have choice.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 24, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> "To promote the general welfare"


“To promote the general welfare” is *not* one of the 18 enumerated powers of the federal government. 

I asked for the Article & Section and you couldn’t provide it. Instead you picked 5 words out of context and tried to pass it off. But since you mentioned those 5 little words, please allow me to educate your ignorant ass on them:


> “Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action” - Thomas Jefferson in 1817


See? They do not have unlimited power. The “General Welfare Clause” applies only to their 18 enumerated powers. And healthcare isn’t one of those powers. But just in case you’re _still_ confused (you are pretty low-IQ), we’ll clarify further:


> “[We] disavow, and *declare to be most false and unfounded, the doctrine that the *[Constitution], in authorizing its federal branch to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and *general welfare of the United States, has given them thereby a power to do whatever they may think, or pretend, would promote the general welfare–which construction would make that of itself a complete government, without limitation of powers*.… The plain sense and obvious meaning were that they might levy the taxes necessary to provide for the general welfare by the various acts of power therein specified and delegated to them, and by no others. ” - Thomas Jefferson in 1825


So thanks for playing, Tax Man. Once again you’ve been _thoroughly_ defeated!


----------



## P@triot (Oct 24, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> Now you may have a problem with vaccines *but you did take* polio and rubella and *flu vaccines*. How do you feel now little boy?


Bwahahaha!! I have _literally_ *never* had a “flu vaccine”. Ever. Not one.

How do _you_ feel now, little boy?


----------



## P@triot (Oct 24, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > Now you may have a problem with vaccines *but you did take* polio and rubella and *flu vaccines*. How do you feel now little boy?
> ...


Folks, can you imagine the _profound_ ignorance and arrogance required to tell total strangers what they did and didn’t do with regards to their own private healthcare?

I’ve never had a flu shot in my entire life. I just haven’t.

This flawlessly illustrates the left. In their fascist dictatorial tizzies, they declare that which just isn’t so in an attempt to defend a bat-shit crazy position that never should have been taken in the first place.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 24, 2021)

Flopper said:


> The government can ask the question and you are free not to answer.


And _why_ am I “free not to answer”? Because the federal government has absolutely 0 power/authority over healthcare. None.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 24, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> P@triot said:
> 
> 
> > Don't give me some bullshit "court precedence" answer. Courts don't make law. Tell me the Article and Section of the US Constitution that places healthcare under the purview of the federal government.
> ...


Welp, you couldn’t do it! Time for you to STFU and delete your account!

Buh-bye, Tax Man! Buh-bye! 👋


----------



## Tax Man (Oct 25, 2021)

P@triot said:


> Welp, you couldn’t do it! Time for you to STFU and delete your account!
> 
> Buh-bye, Tax Man! Buh-bye! 👋


Have you noticed no one else is even looking at you self aggrandizement? Perhaps it is because you are so pathetic.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 25, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> "To promote the general welfare". Now you may have a problem with vaccines but you did take polio and rubella and flu vaccines.


That was my parent's decision, not mine.   They did have the option of not doing do.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 25, 2021)

Flopper said:


> The government can ask the question and you are free not to answer.   The government can require masks and vaccinations to work for the government and you are free to work elsewhere.  The same applies to private businesses.  You have choice.


Just like the women of TX have the choice to go to Oklahoma or New Mexico for an abortion.
Right?


----------



## Captain Caveman (Oct 25, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> Have you noticed no one else is even looking at you self aggrandizement? Perhaps it is because you are so pathetic.


Natural immunity is 13 times better than vaccinated.

Before you rant, I'm vaccinated, but it looks like I would have been better off not. The sample population was 'extremely' high. Interesting video.


----------



## Baron Von Murderpaws (Oct 26, 2021)

If they come a knocking, you can start a shootin.

I'm just sayin...............


----------



## emilynghiem (Oct 27, 2021)

Don't wait for them to knock. Proactively organize with your local
* HOA or civic associations
* school district PTO and board members
* party precinct chairs and members
* city or county council reps
To set up your own democratically managed medical cooperatives with partnerships to pay service providers and clinics directly

Model programs to replicate:
www.pdmpwebsite.org Nonprofit Cooperative benefits at half cost plus NO deductibles copays or exclusions for preexisting conditions all covered. Developed by Donald McCormick www.tbt.org and Bret Schulte, Libertarian legal advisor who set up all the documents, licensing and contracts for this program to operate in TX.

AtlasMD in Wichita KS, promoted by Sean Hannity

Kaiser Permanente and other similar associations

Www.firstprimarycare.com

Or you can sign up for a Health Share ministry like Medishare or CHM, then use the Cooperative model combined with it to reduce costs to Medicare priced contracts with each provider.

The point is: get off govt health care. Set up your own locally through direct associations at Medicare pricing. So you have your own system for deciding policy directly between you and your doctors and clinic on retainer.

Www.drstellamd.com is one doctor promoting faster treatment instead of vaccines. Find local doctors who support the same approach you believe in, and set up your own cooperative around that.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Oct 28, 2021)

Billyboom said:


> View attachment 513574
> Its this simple.


No it not.  If someone comes to my door asking about my vaccination status, I’ll say “none of your business” and close the door in their face.  By the way I am vaccinated.


----------



## Hellbilly (Oct 28, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No it not.  If someone comes to my door asking about my vaccination status, I’ll say “none of your business” and close the door in their face.  By the way I am vaccinated.


I guess the difference between us is I cooperate, which is what I should do according to folks around here.


----------



## Flopper (Oct 28, 2021)

P@triot said:


> Folks, can you imagine the _profound_ ignorance and arrogance required to tell total strangers what they did and didn’t do with regards to their own private healthcare?
> 
> I’ve never had a flu shot in my entire life. I just haven’t.
> 
> This flawlessly illustrates the left. In their fascist dictatorial tizzies, they declare that which just isn’t so in an attempt to defend a bat-shit crazy position that never should have been taken in the first place.


In epidemics, governments or those in authority have always taken dictatorial actions for the protection of the public.  Those actions have ranged from killing the sick, transporting the sick, locking them up, and mandating public protection. 

Government vaccine mandates are as old as the country.  They are very much part of US culture and tradition dating back to the colonial era, even before Edward Jenner’s 1796 discovery of cowpox vaccinia. George Washington required smallpox inoculations for the Continental Army in 1777, writing that “we should have more to dread from smallpox, than from the sword of the enemy.” He condemned a Virginia law restricting inoculations, saying he would rather move for a law to compel inoculation of all children “under severe penalties.” Massachusetts enacted the first law mandating immunization in 1809.  States began requiring childhood vaccinations as a condition of school entry by the mid-19th century.   Vaccines are often mandated for military service members, new immigrants seeking permanent US residence, college and university students,  health care workers, and the public in many epidemics around the country.  Balancing individual freedoms with public safety is nothing new.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 28, 2021)

Flopper said:


> In epidemics, governments or those in authority have always taken dictatorial actions for the protection of the public.  Those actions have ranged from killing the sick, transporting the sick, locking them up, and mandating public protection.


That's what China did for Covid.   Never happen here.


Flopper said:


> Government vaccine mandates are as old as country.


When has the federal government, by executive order or regulation, mandated a vaccine for the general public?


----------



## Flopper (Oct 28, 2021)

Billyboom said:


> I guess the difference between us is I cooperate, which is what I should do according to folks around here.The most important aspect of stopping an epidemic is public cooperation, willingly or mandated.





Billyboom said:


> The United States has less than 4% of world population, yet we have 18% of the cases and 15% of the deaths.  We lead the world in deaths and number of cases followed by Brazil and India.  The common elements between all 3 countries has been the lack of cooperation with government and healthcare authorizes in preventing the spread of the virus and emphasizing economic recovery and growth over controlling the virus.   Countries that have done the best job at controlling the virus are those countries with a  high level of cooperation from the public, either voluntary or mandated.











						COVID Live Update: 261,475,525 Cases and 5,215,099 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer
					

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...




					www.worldometers.info


----------



## Flopper (Oct 28, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> That's what China did for Covid.   Never happen here.
> 
> When has the federal government, by executive order or regulation, mandated a vaccine for the general public?


The federal government is not wow mandating a vaccine for general public nor have they ever done so.


----------



## Hellbilly (Oct 28, 2021)

Flopper 
On most messages boards it is against the rules to alter a post to make it say something I did not say.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 28, 2021)

Flopper said:


> The federal government is not wow mandating a vaccine for general public nor have they ever done so.


And so, when you say "Government vaccine mandates are as old as the country" you mean legislatively, at the state and local level.

What precedeent, then, is there for the proposed federal regulatory mandate for private companies with 100 or more employees?


----------



## Circe (Oct 28, 2021)

AZrailwhale said:


> No it not.  If someone comes to my door asking about my vaccination status, I’ll say “none of your business” and close the door in their face.  By the way I am vaccinated.


I won't tell anyone this sort of information. I'm sick of being datamined. And people asking inappropriate questions. I always think it's so weird that people get told by employers they have to be vaccinated ---- where is that step where they ask if you are? They would never get past that with me. 

Do you see that employers saying you have to be vaccinated also means you have to answer them when they ask you if you are, and show them papers? None of any of that should be happening, and with me, it won't.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 28, 2021)

Flopper said:


> In epidemics, governments or those in authority have always taken dictatorial actions for the protection of the public.


“In societies, women have _always_ been raped. Going all the way back to the caveman days”.

Sorry, Flop. Just can’t get onboard with your “logic” here. Just because something has always happened, doesn’t mean it’s right or ok.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 28, 2021)

Flopper in post #124:


Flopper said:


> Government vaccine mandates are as old as the country.


And then Flopper just three posts later in post #127:


Flopper said:


> The federal government is *not* wow *mandating a vaccine* for general public *nor have they ever done so*.


These fuck’n people are just amazing. Let a leftist talk more than 30 seconds and they will inevitably contradict themselves.


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 28, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> ]


That's a whole lotta paranoid bullshit, right there.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Oct 28, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> That's a whole lotta paranoid bullshit, right there.



Does it bother you to be stranded in my shadow? 

It does, doesn't it. Heh heh...


----------



## Crepitus (Oct 29, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> Does it bother you to be stranded in my shadow?
> 
> It does, doesn't it. Heh heh...


Wow, delusions of grandeur, even.

Does your psychiatrist know about this?


----------



## Pellinore (Oct 29, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> And so, when you say "Government vaccine mandates are as old as the country" you mean legislatively, at the state and local level.
> 
> What precedeent, then, is there for the proposed federal regulatory mandate for private companies with 100 or more employees?


I can answer these.

The federal government doesn't issue public health emergency mandates for the simple reason that the Constitution does not give it that power, so the 10th Amendment says that that power lies in the hands of the states.  Check your State Constitution; mine gives the Governor and legislature the power to enforce public health mandates.  While these won't include shooting infected people in the head, it easily covers vaccine and mask mandates.  

The power to enforce the OSHA workplace vaccination laws comes from the law that established OSHA in 1970 (by a bipartisan Congress, signed by a Republican President).  OSHA gets its authority from Article I, Section 8, Clause 3, which gives Congress the power to pass laws to regulate interstate commerce.  The Supreme Court (which was conservative-led at the time) has agreed numerous times since then that this includes governing workplace safety, as long as it is based on a legitimate health concern.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 29, 2021)

Pellinore said:


> I can answer these.
> 
> The federal government doesn't issue public health emergency mandates for the simple reason that the Constitution does not give it that power, so the 10th Amendment says that that power lies in the hands of the states.
> 
> The power to enforce the OSHA workplace vaccination laws comes from the law that established OSHA in 1970 (by a bipartisan Congress, signed by a Republican President).  OSHA gets its authority from Article I, Section 8, Clause 3, which gives Congress the power to pass laws to regulate interstate commerce.


Seems to me, you contradict yourself.


----------



## danielpalos (Oct 30, 2021)

Flopper said:


> The federal government is not wow mandating a vaccine for general public nor have they ever done so.


The federal Congress is delegated the (social) power to fix Standards for the Union.


----------



## Pellinore (Oct 30, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Seems to me, you contradict yourself.


I don't.  The 10th Amendment applies to powers that aren't specifically granted to the federal government in the Constitution.  The OSHA mandate is derived from a power specifically granted to the federal government in the Constitution, so the 10th doesn't apply.


----------



## Ivan88 (Oct 31, 2021)

Pellinore said:


> I don't.  The 10th Amendment applies to powers that aren't specifically granted to the federal government in the Constitution.


Ha Ha, dream on. Lincoln used that "constitution" to make war on the Southern States, turn Washington into a private cororation and the states into subsidiaries.  Lincoln was advised by Karl Marx, appointed Communists escaped from the failed 1849 Communist revolution in Europe to high positions in the Washington DC corporation named The United States of America, no longer These United States of America. Everything is rigged for the Rich man.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Oct 31, 2021)

Pellinore said:


> I don't.  The 10th Amendment applies to powers that aren't specifically granted to the federal government in the Constitution.  The OSHA mandate is derived from a power specifically granted to the federal government in the Constitution, so the 10th doesn't apply.


First, you say there's no federal power.
Then you say there is.
Contradiction.


----------



## Pellinore (Oct 31, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> First, you say there's no federal power.
> Then you say there is.
> Contradiction.


The federal government has power to do some things, but not others.  Here, I'll try once more, with different wording. 

The Constitution grants a bunch of specific powers to the federal government.  The Tenth Amendment says that anything that the Constitution doesn't specifically grant to the federal government, belongs to the state government, so that's how it works.  

So who has the power to enforce public health mandates?  The Constitution does not specifically give that power to the federal government, so according to the Tenth, it belongs to the states.  Check your State Constitution for who can set which public health mandates; it's not a federal power.

However, the US Constitution (Art I, Sect 8, Clause 3) does specifically say that Congress may pass laws to regulate interstate commerce.  Because that is a power that the Constitution specifically grants to the federal government, the Tenth does not apply.  

In 1971, Congress used their power over interstate commerce to create a law that established OSHA, giving it the ability to make rules about occupational health and safety.  Congress (who passed the law), the President (who signed it), and the Supreme Court (through rulings that have supported that OSHA's power includes establishing health-related workplace rules) all supported it.  

I hope that's clear enough.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 1, 2021)

Pellinore said:


> The federal government has power to do some things, but not others.  Here, I'll try once more, with different wording.
> 
> The Constitution grants a bunch of specific powers to the federal government.  The Tenth Amendment says that anything that the Constitution doesn't specifically grant to the federal government, belongs to the state government, so that's how it works.
> 
> ...


Oh, I understand what you said the first time.
Its still a contradiction.

No power:
_So who has the power to enforce public health mandates?  The Constitution does not specifically give that power to the federal government, so according to the Tenth, it belongs to the states. _

Power:
_However, the US Constitution (Art I, Sect 8, Clause 3) does specifically say that Congress may pass laws to regulate interstate commerce...In 1971, Congress used their power over interstate commerce to create a law that established OSHA_

I hope that's clear enough.


----------



## danielpalos (Nov 1, 2021)

Our federal Congress has this power in federal districts:

_To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;-And_





__





						National Health Services Corps | doh
					

The National Health Service Corps (NHSC) is a Federal program of the Health Resources and Services Administration that provides scholarships and loan repayment to primary care providers practicing at approved sites located in/or serving Health Professional Shortage Areas (HPSAs) throughout the...




					dchealth.dc.gov


----------



## Pellinore (Nov 2, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> Oh, I understand what you said the first time.
> Its still a contradiction.
> 
> No power:
> ...


Ah, I see.  I'm talking about more than one power.  There's the power to enforce public health mandates, and then there's a separate power to regulate interstate commerce.  They are two different powers.  

Think of them like licenses.  You probably have a license to drive, and then you may have a separate license to fish.  It's not just generic "license" to do anything; each different one allows you to do a different thing. 

Same with Constitutional powers.  The Constitution doesn't just give "power" to do anything, it grants specific powers to different branches and levels of government.  Interstate commerce explicitly goes to the federal government, but because it doesn't mention public health, the Tenth says that means that power is reserved for the States.


----------



## Colin norris (Nov 2, 2021)

Natural Citizen said:


> With respect to forum rules, permission to republish artice in full has been requested by me and granted by its author.
> 
> John W. Whitehead’s weekly commentaries are available for publication to newspapers and web publications at no charge. Please contact staff@rutherford.org to obtain reprint permission.
> 
> ...


It always comes down to republicans  not wanting to take the jab because if some filthy con apiracy they heard about the democrats .  
But it is your right to die how you choose but not to infect others while doing it. 

I said before, eventually th ef government will make er government services etc, more difficult to access, benefits will be restricted and  probably driver's licences cancelled. 

You will eventually conform no matter what government  is there.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 2, 2021)

Pellinore said:


> Ah, I see.  I'm talking about more than one power.  There's the power to enforce public health mandates, and then there's a separate power to regulate interstate commerce.  They are two different powers.


And you're arguing the ICC gives the federal government the power to create and enforce public health mandates.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 2, 2021)

Colin norris said:


> It always comes down to republicans  not wanting to take the jab because if some filthy con apiracy they heard about the democrats .


^^^
Unsupportable nonsense.


Colin norris said:


> But it is your right to die how you choose but not to infect others while doing it.


People who have been vaccinated spread the virus and infect people.
The vaccine is there to protect you, and no one else.


Colin norris said:


> I said before, eventually th ef government will make er government services etc, more difficult to access, benefits will be restricted and  probably driver's licences cancelled.


Why do you think the federal government can cancel drivers' licenses?
Given the push-back from the current vaccine mandates, why do you think the draconian steps you suggest will be tolerated?


Colin norris said:


> You will eventually conform no matter what government  is there.


What happened to "my body my choice"?


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Nov 3, 2021)

Tax Man said:


> "To promote the general welfare". Now you may have a problem with vaccines but you did take polio and rubella and flu vaccines. How do you feel now little boy?


To promote the general welfare of the United States.   You left that part off.  The clause was never intended to govern individual behavior.  Otherwise the government could order you to trim your toenails.


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## danielpalos (Nov 4, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> To promote the general welfare of the United States.   You left that part off.  The clause was never intended to govern individual behavior.  Otherwise the government could order you to trim your toenails.


It has to be about health and safety.  The End must justify the Means.


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## Pellinore (Nov 4, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> And you're arguing the ICC gives the federal government the power to create and enforce public health mandates.


Okay.  You're repeatedly stating exactly the opposite of what tenth graders can understand with few problems. 

Points to you for the Squad Leader token, and best of luck in your future endeavors.


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## Baron Von Murderpaws (Nov 5, 2021)

Some assholes came around EARLY one Saturday morning, BANGING the fucking hell out of peoples front doors.
Woke me up and scared the shit out of me!!  They were screaming something, the one doing the screaming was obviously doing it in ebonics or whatever the F it's called.  Couldn't understand WTF he was screaming.

Looked out my peephole, and some black guy and black girl in red shirts and tan pants with clipboards.

1. If I don't know who you are, I don't open the door.
2. If you don't have any fucking MANNERS, I SURE AS HELL don't open the door!!
3. You put your own life in jeopardy when waking me up that early in the morning!!!  I will rip your trachea out without even thinking about it or flinching.

Still don't know who the fuck they were.  Can only assume they were the Vile Villainous Vax Brigade.


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## danielpalos (Nov 6, 2021)

Illegals will be themselves.


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## M14 Shooter (Nov 6, 2021)

Toffeenut Baconsmuggler said:


> Some assholes came around EARLY one Saturday morning, BANGING the fucking hell out of peoples front doors.
> Woke me up and scared the shit out of me!!  They were screaming something, the one doing the screaming was obviously doing it in ebonics or whatever the F it's called.  Couldn't understand WTF he was screaming.
> Still don't know who the fuck they were.  Can only assume they were the Vile Villainous Vax Brigade.


This is how people get shot.


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