# Christians United For Israel



## MJB12741 (Dec 23, 2013)

On this peaceful, blessed event of Christmas, let us all join together in thanking our Christian brothers for their united support for Israel in their battle against Palestinian terrorists.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Welcome - Christians United for Israel


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## MJB12741 (Dec 23, 2013)

With every terrorist attack on Israel, Chritian support for Israel continues to grow even stronger.  CUFI in action for Israel.  

The Jewish Press » » ?Where Are Israel?s Enemies Of Centuries Past?? An Interview with Pastor John Hagee




MJB12741 said:


> On this peaceful, blessed event of Christmas, let us all join together in thanking our Christian brothers for their united support for Israel in their battle against Palestinian terrorists.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> Welcome - Christians United for Israel


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## aris2chat (Dec 23, 2013)

Kassam rockets and bus bomb
not exactly the way you want support.

I'd rather support the film makers.  I have SAG movies to watch and consider to night
I'd rather support designers and architects.  Students studying medicine and science need support.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 23, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> On this peaceful, blessed event of Christmas, let us all join together in thanking our Christian brothers for their united support for Israel...


Not if the Knesset declares Jerusalem the capital of Israel.


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## Indeependent (Dec 23, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > On this peaceful, blessed event of Christmas, let us all join together in thanking our Christian brothers for their united support for Israel...
> ...



Wouldn't be much of a difference as the Mossad is probably thwarting numerous terrorist attacks on a daily basis.
I'd like to see Israel piss off the US State Department.

And before I forget, what exactly is the relationship between Islam and Jerusalem?
Oh, that's right, there isn't any.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 23, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Wouldn't be much of a difference as the Mossad is probably thwarting numerous terrorist attacks on a daily basis.
> I'd like to see Israel piss off the US State Department.
> 
> And before I forget, what exactly is the relationship between Islam and Jerusalem?
> Oh, that's right, there isn't any.


All 3 religions have holy sites in Jerusalem.


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## Indeependent (Dec 23, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
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> 
> > Wouldn't be much of a difference as the Mossad is probably thwarting numerous terrorist attacks on a daily basis.
> ...



Nope; only 2.
In fact, I challenge you to find ONE EXPLICIT reference to Jerusalem in the Quaran...One.
And if you think the Arabs are going to allow Christians free reign to their Holy Sites, well, they DIDN'T for several centuries.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 23, 2013)

Mecca is holy in Islam, not Jerusalem.  Wouldn't a Palestinian State in Mecca be wonderful?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


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## WillReadmore (Dec 23, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Mecca is holy in Islam, not Jerusalem.  Wouldn't a Palestinian State in Mecca be wonderful?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!



So, what's your proposal for representative government in West Bank?

Are you agreeing with Israel that ethnic cleansing is the answer?

Do you see morality in "peace through ethnic cleansing"?


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## SAYIT (Dec 23, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> 
> > Mecca is holy in Islam, not Jerusalem.  Wouldn't a Palestinian State in Mecca be wonderful?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> ...



Ethnic cleansing? These peeps live within each others skin. That "ethnic cleansing" camel crap is unadulterated. Over 20% of Israel's CITIZENS identify themselves as Arab.


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## Mr. H. (Dec 23, 2013)

Jews believe in Christ. 

Yeah, right.


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## Mr. H. (Dec 23, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> On this peaceful, blessed event of Christmas, let us all join together in thanking our Christian brothers for their united support for Israel in their battle against Palestinian terrorists.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> Welcome - Christians United for Israel



Pandering fuck.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 23, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
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Your historic and religious text comments are of highly limited value in political decisions today.

For example, they simply don't justify the crimes of land theft or ethnic cleansing of a population.

Telling some other religion that they don't have holy sites is about as stupid an idea as I've heard on this board.  Besides, Islam very definitely has ancient holy sites in Jerusalem.


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## Indeependent (Dec 23, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > Billo_Really said:
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Here's value...If they want it, let them come and take it.
I guess you value UN Resolutions...If they are Anti-Israel.
Ethnic Cleansing...Can you tell me EXACTLY where this is happening so I can ask one of my many friends and relatives in Israel to check it out?
And once again, show me any EXPLICIT reference to Jerusalem in the Koran.

If a religion is to be taken seriously, it can't just conjure up sound-bites when it's scripture is available all over the Internet.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 23, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> WillReadmore said:
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17% of Israel's population is Muslim.  While Arabs in Israel live under Israel's mild apartheid regime, the problems there are not what I'm referring to.

In West Bank, private property is being stolen on a daily basis and the owners are being eliminated from these stolen land tracts - ethnic cleansing.

It's gotten to the point where West Bank is essentially divided in half, with Palestinians in the north unable to visit Palestinians in the south without Israeli facilitation.  In other words, significant portions of West Bank have been ethnically cleansed to date.


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## SAYIT (Dec 23, 2013)

Mr. H. said:


> Jews believe in Christ.
> 
> Yeah, right.



I take your ad hominem opening salvo to mean you're well into tonight's bottle.
Are you gonna go all Mel Gibson again tonight?


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## Indeependent (Dec 23, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> SAYIT said:
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REALLY?  Private property? REALLY?
I know, you saw it on YouTube.


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## SAYIT (Dec 23, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


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The pity is the rest of your post had something we could have discussed but your "apartheid regime" camel crap coupled with your "ethnic cleasing" BS has exposed you as a pointless propagandist and therefore of no redeeming social value.
You are dismissed.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 23, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Nope; only 2.
> In fact, I challenge you to find ONE EXPLICIT reference to Jerusalem in the Quaran...One.
> And if you think the Arabs are going to allow Christians free reign to their Holy Sites, well, they DIDN'T for several centuries.


You're a fucking idiot!

Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem...


> _*Jerusalem is considered a sacred site in Sunni Islamic tradition*, along with Mecca and Medina.
> 
> The *Dome of the Rock is an Islamic sacred shrine in Jerusalem*, built on the Temple Mount.
> 
> ...


Care to make any other dumbass statements?


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## WillReadmore (Dec 23, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> WillReadmore said:
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There doesn't need to be any reference to ANYTHING in the Qur'an in order to justify Palestinian property owners retaining their property.  International law states that changes in national boundary do NOT affect private property ownership.  And, there is no justification for the ethnic cleansing that is being performed to allow settlements (including settlements even Israel considers illegal) to grow - to the benefit of civilian Israelis.  

Even the Bush "road map" plan pointed this out, and called for Israel to remove these settlements.

Ethnic cleansing is being carried out in a multitude of locations all across West Bank.

Take a look at the routing plans for the Wall.  The Wall route is under constant change, with it meandering up river valleys and through various other types of land in a manner that can not possibly have ANYTHING to do with security of Israel within the Green Line.

Have you EVER looked at a map of West Bank?  Even the Israeli maps show the incredible progress of their program of land theft and ethnic cleansing.  Why do you think Palestinians are upset to the point of suicide attacks???  

When they have their farms and homes stolen and when their families are chased off their land, what is their recourse?  Whose law protects them?  How do they get new land to farm when these families are in a relocation camps having had the Israelis steal their possessions?


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## Indeependent (Dec 23, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > Nope; only 2.
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Un hem...an EXPLICIT reference in Islamic canon will do just fine.
Oh!  You can't find one!

The references you have as Jerusalem are IMPLIED in the writings WAY PAST the closing of the Suras of the Koran.
Next!


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Indeependent said:
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Here's a concrete plan of action.
It's a fact that new settlements are being built on unused land closer and closer to the West Bank Jordanian.
Create or find a map that DISTINCTLY indicates inhabited West Bank Jordanian settlements dating back 3 years, or maybe even longer, and indicate EXPLICITLY where West Bank Jordanians have been dislocated from their homes.

Caveat...A West Bank Jordanian settlement in which bomb factories have been exposed CANNOT be used for this map.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Here's a concrete plan of action.
> It's a fact that new settlements are being built on unused land closer and closer to the West Bank Jordanian.
> Create or find a map that DISTINCTLY indicates inhabited West Bank Jordanian settlements dating back 3 years, or maybe even longer, and indicate EXPLICITLY where West Bank Jordanians have been dislocated from their homes.
> 
> Caveat...A West Bank Jordanian settlement in which bomb factories have been exposed CANNOT be used for this map.


What the heck is a "West Bank Jordanian"?

Let's remember that this was a key issue even back in the Bush administration when Bush43 made his "road map" for peace.  The primary task assigned to Palestine (to be executed before negotiations started) was for them to get their security situation under control.  Since then, Israel has turned over significant portions of security to West Bank even though West Bank has been allowed limited policing equipment to carry out the task - in other words, a notable accomplishment recognized even by Israel.

Israel's "road map" task (to be executed as their requirement for entering negotiations) was to eliminate illegal Israeli settlements in West Bank.  Israel started to do this, but the internal politics ended that task and Israel has been on a constant program of illegally EXPANDING settlements since then.  These expansions very definitely involve stealing land from Palestinians and chasing them away as per ethnic cleansing.

Here's one report from 2006:



> JERUSALEM, Nov. 21 -- An Israeli advocacy group has found that 39 percent of the land used by Jewish settlements in the West Bank is private Palestinian property, which the organization contends is a violation of international and Israeli law guaranteeing property rights in the occupied territories.
> 
> The report's authors, Dror Etkes and Hagit Ofran, note that "it is difficult to assess all of the political and legal implications" of their findings. But "it is clear," they write, "that the settlement enterprise has, since its inception, ignored Israeli law and undermined not only the collective property rights of the Palestinians as a people, but also the private property rights of individual Palestinian landowners." The report states that the settlements occupy a total of 15,271 acres of private Palestinian land.
> 
> West Bank Settlements Often Use Private Palestinian Land, Study Says


 
This was from 2006.  The "progress" Israeli ethnic cleansing programs have made over the last 6 years is dramatic and can be seen in Israeli maps of West Bank.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Un hem...an EXPLICIT reference in Islamic canon will do just fine.
> Oh!  You can't find one!
> 
> The references you have as Jerusalem are IMPLIED in the writings WAY PAST the closing of the Suras of the Koran.
> Next!


Asking you about Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem, is like asking the KKK what they think about African-American contributions to the New World.

Your racist bullshit doesn't negate any muslim holy sites in Jerusalem.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Here's a concrete plan of action.
> It's a fact that new settlements are being built on unused land closer and closer to the West Bank Jordanian.
> Create or find a map that DISTINCTLY indicates inhabited West Bank Jordanian settlements dating back 3 years, or maybe even longer, and indicate EXPLICITLY where West Bank Jordanians have been dislocated from their homes.
> 
> Caveat...A West Bank Jordanian settlement in which bomb factories have been exposed CANNOT be used for this map.


Here's a better plan.

The Israeli's need to get their shit, IOF and settler insurgents out of the West Bank.  They have only two options:

do it voluntarily
or be forced to
That's all they got!


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

So called, self proclaimed Christians who support stealing, killing, and lying. Weren't those things mentioned in the ten commandments?

No thank you. I would rather be a real Christian not one of those fake ass Christians who support Israel.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 24, 2013)

Get serious.  What "Palestinian property" are you talking about?   Who owns the deed to these properties?  Truly it's long overdue for Israel to find a way to send the Palestinian squatters back to their indigenous homelands.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!



QUOTE=WillReadmore;8346173]





Indeependent said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > Your historic and religious text comments are of highly limited value in political decisions today.
> ...


There doesn't need to be any reference to ANYTHING in the Qur'an in order to justify Palestinian property owners retaining their property.  International law states that changes in national boundary do NOT affect private property ownership.  And, there is no justification for the ethnic cleansing that is being performed to allow settlements (including settlements even Israel considers illegal) to grow - to the benefit of civilian Israelis.  

Even the Bush "road map" plan pointed this out, and called for Israel to remove these settlements.

Ethnic cleansing is being carried out in a multitude of locations all across West Bank.

Take a look at the routing plans for the Wall.  The Wall route is under constant change, with it meandering up river valleys and through various other types of land in a manner that can not possibly have ANYTHING to do with security of Israel within the Green Line.

Have you EVER looked at a map of West Bank?  Even the Israeli maps show the incredible progress of their program of land theft and ethnic cleansing.  Why do you think Palestinians are upset to the point of suicide attacks???  

When they have their farms and homes stolen and when their families are chased off their land, what is their recourse?  Whose law protects them?  How do they get new land to farm when these families are in a relocation camps having had the Israelis steal their possessions?[/QUOTE]


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

The Palestinians are cut off by walls, settlements and Jewish-only roads.. They are cut off from their farms and olive groves, mosques, schools and relatives.

There is no room for a two state solution .. That window closed many years ago..


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## irosie91 (Dec 24, 2013)

MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran  ------in fact,,    read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!

    How is land ownership attained?      -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
    in the land mass called   "CANAAN" ------Abraham  PURCHASED    hebron----for 
    something called  "money" -------at that time  "money"    consisted of   gold  &/or 
    silver----------usually shapped into rings------and evaluated by WEIGHT-------
    the   "SHEKEL"  is a weight.        Ownership of land by  PURCHASE------has been 
    known in the middle east for  MILLENIA !!!!!!!         but-----ownership of land----
    according to the    "isa-respecters" -------is based on invasion and rape and killing 
    and enslavement.       FACE REALITY   MJB--------the isa-respecters from mecca 
    and rome------OWN IT ALL                             Now do you understand?  
    Even today-----KHARTROUM   claims   southern sudan based on  "LAW"-----the 
    law of rape and killing and enslavement

    (PS-----all of the indian subcontinent is  OWNED ---by the meccaists----by the 
     same principle-------invaision,  rape and killing and enslavement......)


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Get serious.  What "Palestinian property" are you talking about?   Who owns the deed to these properties?  Truly it's long overdue for Israel to find a way to send the Palestinian squatters back to their indigenous homelands.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Pre-1948 mass murdering of Jews in the land currently known as Israel...Rationale?
1948-Tanks roll in from Jordan, Egypt and Jordan...Rationale?
1967-Tanks roll in from etc
1974-ditto

The bottom line is that Arabs are a bunch of murderous scum and even the British, French, Germans, US, etc....armed the Jews to the teeth in 1948 because nobody wanted a unified Arab world power to emerge.

So everybody, including all the Arab nations, stand by whilst their "helpless" murderous scum "Palestinians" and Gazans brethren continue to build their bombs to strap around the waists of their children.
So I guess every nation on earth is aiding and abetting this ethnic cleansing of murderous scum.

Good.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > Here's a concrete plan of action.
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I think you're right.
The mighty Irish military is working on a plan at this very moment.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 24, 2013)

LOL!  Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like,  For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay.  And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!





irosie91 said:


> MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran  ------in fact,,    read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!
> 
> How is land ownership attained?      -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
> in the land mass called   "CANAAN" ------Abraham  PURCHASED    hebron----for
> ...


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> The Palestinians are cut off by walls, settlements and Jewish-only roads.. They are cut off from their farms and olive groves, mosques, schools and relatives.
> 
> There is no room for a two state solution .. That window closed many years ago..


Two very strong points.

With the first, I'd add that Israel considers farmland as vacant if the owner can't get their to do a productive job of farming.  Thus, these access limitations lead farmers having their farms stolen.


On the second, it seems much more logical at this point to include all West Bank as part of Israel.  By international law, that would make ALL residents of West Bank full citizens of Israel.  From there, it would become a fight for equality, much as it is in any apartheid nation.

That would be a touch sell for Palestinians who have UN recognition, a viable state (according to the UN Security Council) and national aspirations.

For Israel, they would have to come to the understanding that their nation is a secular democratic state (such as the USA) - not a religious state.  After all, the majority would probably be Islamic within the foreseeable future.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> LOL!  Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like,  For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay.  And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your new excuse for ethnic cleansing is even more pathetic than the current excuses.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

The three different categories of land in Israel are: those which may not be purchased by foreign citizens; those which may be purchased by foreign citizens, yet are subject to various conditions; and those which may be purchased by foreign citizens not subject to any conditions.

The overwhelming majority of land is Israel is owned by the State and only a small minority is under private ownership. A negligible portion of land in Israel has not yet been categorized into either of these two areas.

Approximately 7% of the allocated land in Israel is privately owned. The rest, i.e. 93%, is owned by the State and is known as &#8220;Israeli Land&#8221;. Israel&#8217;s Basic Law on real estate states that Israel&#8217;s Land is jointly owned by the State (69%), the Development Authority (12%), and the Jewish National Fund (12%). While the law expressly forbids transferring of such land either by sale or other means, it does imply that a long term lease would be permitted.


I can't post links yet.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Shaarona said:
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> > The Palestinians are cut off by walls, settlements and Jewish-only roads.. They are cut off from their farms and olive groves, mosques, schools and relatives.
> ...



While, of course, the rest of the Arab nations remain non-secular...cute.
Not gonna happen in a million years, but cute.
You realize the overwhelming number of Jews moving to Israel now are Modern Orthodox?
And they LOVE guns.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 24, 2013)

Bless you for brining up this issue of "ethnic cleansing" so even those Zionists can see the truth.  In 1948 there were approximarely 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  Let the truth be known to all & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org




WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL!  Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like,  For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay.  And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!
> ...


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran  ------in fact,,    read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!
> 
> How is land ownership attained?      -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
> in the land mass called   "CANAAN" ------Abraham  PURCHASED    hebron----for
> ...



Now please count for us the number of times scripture records a land purchase and WHY these particular purchases are recorded.
And in whose favor those purchases were recorded.
You're NOT gonna like the answer.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL!  Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like,  For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay.  And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!
> ...



Abraham purchased a field in Hebron, not the whole town.

Genesis 23: 7-9


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

And while everyone's at it...
Please recount for us, from scripture, whether or not Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were told to PURCHASE the Land of Israel or if their children were going to INHERIT the Land of Israel.
And just exactly HOW the Children of Israel, led by Joshua, INHERITED the Land of Israel.

And if you reject all of this you also have to reject your Christianity since TNT is based on TNT.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


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This is the level of discourse one must deal with when having a discussion with someone whose knowledge base is Cut and Paste anti-Jew sites.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Pre-1948 mass murdering of Jews in the land currently known as Israel...Rationale?


Tell that to the arabs who were massacred at Deir Yessin.  There was murder on both sides, but mostly it was Zionists murdering innocent arabs.



Indeependent said:


> 1948-Tanks roll in from Jordan, Egypt and Jordan...Rationale?


To stop Zionists from taking land that wasn't given to them in the Mandate.



Indeependent said:


> 1967-Tanks roll in from etc


Tanks rolled from Israel into Egypt.



Indeependent said:


> 1974-ditto


That one arabs attacked first.



Indeependent said:


> The bottom line is that Arabs are a bunch of murderous scum and even the British, French, Germans, US, etc....armed the Jews to the teeth in 1948 because nobody wanted a unified Arab world power to emerge.
> 
> So everybody, including all the Arab nations, stand by whilst their "helpless" murderous scum "Palestinians" and Gazans brethren continue to build their bombs to strap around the waists of their children.
> So I guess every nation on earth is aiding and abetting this ethnic cleansing of murderous scum.
> ...


Israel murders arabs at a rate of 10-1.

I wouldn't be calling others "murderous scum" with Israel's track history.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
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> > MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran  ------in fact,,    read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!
> ...



Doubtful.  It is you who will not like the answer, Shaaron.  You have missed the point entirely.  Abraham received Israel as an inheritance to give to his son, Isaac, and his descendants...  the land was not "purchased" by contract but rather inherited by "covenant".  There is a huge difference between a "contract" which can be broken or expire vs. a "covenant" which has no expiration date and cannot be broken under any condition.   Let me know how many scriptures you'll need to prove that to you.  

Note*  The Arabs own 99.4% of the middle east while Israel owns .6%.


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## irosie91 (Dec 24, 2013)

learn a bit of history----BILGE-----your kith and kin dance on the murdered bodies of 
hundreds of millions------with  PRIDE IN ISA-ALLAHUABARRRRRRRR.......


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## Book of Jeremiah (Dec 24, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Shaarona said:
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> > The Palestinians are cut off by walls, settlements and Jewish-only roads.. They are cut off from their farms and olive groves, mosques, schools and relatives.
> ...



Wrong.  Israel is a Jewish State and if you don't like that you can go to another nation - even an Islamic State - there are many to choose from.  - Jeri


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

The three different categories of land in Israel are: those which may not be purchased by foreign citizens; those which may be purchased by foreign citizens, yet are subject to various conditions; and those which may be purchased by foreign citizens not subject to any conditions.

The overwhelming majority of land is Israel is owned by the State and only a small minority is under private ownership. A negligible portion of land in Israel has not yet been categorized into either of these two areas.

Approximately 7% of the allocated land in Israel is privately owned. The rest, i.e. 93%, is owned by the State and is known as &#8220;Israeli Land&#8221;. Israel&#8217;s Basic Law on real estate states that Israel&#8217;s Land is jointly owned by the State (69%), the Development Authority (12%), and the Jewish National Fund (12%). While the law expressly forbids transferring of such land either by sale or other means, it does imply that a long term lease would be permitted.


I can't post links yet.


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## Truthseeker420 (Dec 24, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig]Rapture Ready: The Christians United for Israel Tour - YouTube[/ame]


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> Indeependent said:
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Well.. look who wrote the book.. Abraham is a fictional character.. like Moses and Noah.. All those stories were borrowed from Sumer and the Ugarit.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


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Prove it.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > Pre-1948 mass murdering of Jews in the land currently known as Israel...Rationale?
> ...



Your sound-bite historical knowledge would be a delight in court.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


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You mean that the cuneiform tablets from Sumer, Ugarit and Dilmun predate Judaism by a few thousand years... or that there is NO archeological evidence for a GLOBAL Flood or the Exodus??


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## Truthseeker420 (Dec 24, 2013)

John Hagee is a terrorist, un American and is one of the top ten worst Americans.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
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You haven't studied the verses that deal with the dispersion of Noah's sons and his sons children and their tribes.
Ham, Shem and Yefes each went their separate ways and recorded various versions of their families histories, much like the media does today on a daily basis.
Of course, those civilizations are all gone since they had no unifying personalities or a covenant with God.
It's interesting the information to be culled from a careful reading of the Bible and archeological finds.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


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Abraham, Moses and Noah are not fictional characters.   The Bible is not a fictional book.  If you do not believe in G-d why did you use scriptures as your defense?


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > Shaarona said:
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The Bible doesn't state that the Flood was a global event; it doesn't even hint at it.
Did you think even for a moment that the Exodus would be recorded by any nation except for the Children of Israel?
The Bible is rather clear that every nation surrounding Egypt was terrified.
I doubt any of these nations would record anything glorifying this event.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



THAT's A good question.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...




I do  believe in God.. I don't believe the Bible is a history or science book.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Your sound-bite historical knowledge would be a delight in court.


Yeah, because I'd win my case and you'd be forced to pay all my legal bills.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...




I have read the Bible many times.. The flood story is taken from a much earlier myths.. Read Samuel Noah Kramer... He spent his whole life translating the texts.

There is no archeologist or geologist in the world that believes in a Global Flood or the Exodus.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



If you believed in G-d, you'd believe His Book.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



So have I.
That's like saying FoxNews is getting it right and MSNBC is getting it wrong while the person next to you says the exact opposite.
I usually go by who's still around.
The other civilizations are far gone.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 24, 2013)

Isn't it ironic how Israel's enemies refer to the Bible as a book of fairy tales first written by Jews & then by Christians.  But the Koran is the real deal.  Ya gotta loive 'em.  Heh Heh.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



There is ample evidence for all those earlier civilizations... Have you ever been to the ME?

This isn't about one news channel versus another .. its about morality tales and teaching narratives. There have been a number of charlatans along the way.. like Ron Wyatt and his laughable claims.. 

The themes of the OT repeat themselves... over and over again as a history of the Hebrews.. creating their own rich mythos taken from earlier civilizations. The story is disobedience, God's mercy and redemption.

Do a little research about the Red Sea.. or the Reed Sea if you prefer... about Sodom and Gomorrah .. There's not a shred of evidence for that.. There is ample evidence that the Sinai and Canaan were controlled by Egypt.. and that they had garrisons stationed there.

Look at the topology and size of Sinai.. Its only 135 miles from east to west.

None of the facts should shake your faith ... As for the Tower of Babel.. There were and still are towers all over the ME.. They were watch towers during the day and signal towers at night.


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## Truthseeker420 (Dec 24, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Isn't it ironic how Israel's enemies refer to the Bible as a book of fairy tales first written by Jews & then by Christians.  But the Koran is the real deal.  Ya gotta loive 'em.  Heh Heh.



Really? who has said that?


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Isn't it ironic how Israel's enemies refer to the Bible as a book of fairy tales first written by Jews & then by Christians.  But the Koran is the real deal.  Ya gotta loive 'em.  Heh Heh.



The Koran has the very same stories... all about the patriarchs ... however educated Muslims know the stories are didactic literature.. and not history or science.


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## Hossfly (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


Do you know how many posters here were born or raised in the M.E. or do you think they have never been out of their county and only completed the 3d grade? Myself, why, I've been clean to St. Louis once.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Well that's great. Does the board have any geologists or archeologists?

The history of the civilizations .. the movement of people and the geologic formations of the ME are far more complex and actually thrilling than the Bible stories. ... 

IMO the Bible stories have huge value but they aren't history or science.

Take a stab at it.. Sinai can't support 2 million people and their herds even today.


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## Hossfly (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


The bible stories give people belief and faith. Archeology and geologly have a way of reinforcing peoples belief, not always disproving it. Get real.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
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> > Hossfly said:
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Faith is spiritual.. its not science.. Archeology and Geology ground us in natural law and reality.

A scientist doesn't pervert scientific findings to reinforce spiritual mythos.

Do you know any geologists? Have you studied tectonic plates? How about just narrow your focus to Jericho? Its 900 feet below sea level... its 11,000 years old and there is NO flood sediment.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Abraham purchased a field in Hebron, not the whole town.
> 
> Genesis 23: 7-9


This penchant for going back to the Bible or the Qur'an or whatever in order to make property claims is absolute nonsense from top to bottom. 

America doesn't value that direction in any way.  And, we NEVER have.  Nor is that seen as legitimate by the nations of the UN.

Private property doesn't belong to a religion and it doesn't become free for the stealing simply because some ancient text says someone of a different ethnicity, religion, or whatever once lived there.


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## Hossfly (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


The only plates I study are dinner plates. I believe in the Great Flood. Archeology doesn't prove otherwise. Maybe Jericho had a big dome over the city. Or they swept up the debris.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Isn't it ironic how Israel's enemies refer to the Bible as a book of fairy tales first written by Jews & then by Christians.  But the Koran is the real deal.  Ya gotta loive 'em.  Heh Heh.


Nonsense.  The Bible gets high respect in Islam.  Islam sees Jesus as one of the most important prophets.

Neither the Jews nor the Muslims see Jesus as being a god or part of a god.  In that quite significant respect, Muslims and Jews are more closely related than are Christians and Jews.

Beyond that, it's really stupid for us to focus on religious differences.  Religious differences are very difficult to solve, obviously.  Plus, our nation is founded on the belief that those differences are to be ignored when we work together in the context of government.

What we have to offer is ideas on secular government, humanitarianism and possibly economics.  If you want to laugh about religious differences, go find a comedy board.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...




Both archeology and geology prove there was no global flood.. It was very likely a severe flood in the River Basin of the Tigris and Euphrates .. which is very flat.. and happened in 2900 BC.

There is a lot of sediment evidence of a major flood event in the spring.. fed by snow melt from the mountains and unseasonable rains.. The flood footprint is 150  miles wide and 350 miles long to the south.

The King's lists from the time indicate there was a king of Sumer who hauled grain, beer and livestock downriver on barges... Evidently it last six days and the Barges ended up in the Persian Gulf since the estuaries south of Basra were at flood stage.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



The Bible in it's original Hebrew is a far richer text than the rather poor King James "translation".
There are still plenty of technologies to be developed in the science of archeology and interpreting texts of the ancients.
The interesting facet of this discussion is that you see a lack of evidence as a fact as opposed to a lack of evidence being exactly that...a lack.
The findings in medicine in the last 10 years have totally changes our view of things as simple as being a personal trainer to things as complicated as being a brain surgeon.

And you are correct in that people, individuals and groups, make the same mistakes over and over.
If God's creation were perfect, it would be Godlike.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



Yes, I like this thinking out of the box...much more talmudic than following dogma.
The Bible describes what happened and people keep inserting their own facts as opposed to keeping to the text.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> Wrong.  Israel is a Jewish State and if you don't like that you can go to another nation - even an Islamic State - there are many to choose from.  - Jeri


America doesn't believe in that direction.

We believe in stuff like our first amendment, the notion of equal representation, etc.

Today, there are nearly 2M non-Jews in Israel and America stands for the proposition that they have full rights of equality.

My point was that if Israel and West Bank are unified, there would be one nation with 6m Jews and 4m non-Jews, with the non-Jew population growing at a faster rate than the Jewish population.

Any apartheid laws related to being a "Jewish nation" will be seen for what they are and there will be continued pressure for their removal.  It may be a long fight for freedom, but in America our black minorities have made progress even though they are a far smaller minority than would be Muslims in a greater Israel.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



The Jewish sages said that when science trumps scripture.. science wins.. That's as far back as Rambam.. as far as I know...Those old guys were not fools.

Faith should NOT be threatened by science.........


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



And the sages themselves were rather well versed in the sciences as they always need the latest information to answer the questions of their contemporaries.
That's why we have always embraced technology.
There's actually lots of science that changes our laws, especially when it comes to the technology of cooking.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong.  Israel is a Jewish State and if you don't like that you can go to another nation - even an Islamic State - there are many to choose from.  - Jeri
> ...



And I'm sure that Syria, Jordan and Egypt will welcome Jews with open arms.
But first they have to welcome Christians with open arms.


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## Shaarona (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



 I take it that you are Jewish...  Intellect should not be squashed by mythos. Bravo.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



I am.
We have customs that are second layers of law that is determined by current knowledge.
When technology exposes a new layer of truth, the custom slowly but surely adapts to the new.
In a few decades, for instance, rice and corn will be at everybody's Passover table.
One of the reasons we hold onto customs is because we are taught to respect our parents and what they went through.
Plus customs are rather cute and remind us of our parents when they're gone.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 24, 2013)

Isn't it heartwarming to know there is a steady increase of Arab Christians joining with Israel & even fighting with Israel against Palestinian terrorists?

Arab Christians: Israel only state worth fighting for - Israel Today | Israel News


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## aris2chat (Dec 24, 2013)

US has recognized Israel as a jewish state since '48




WillReadmore said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong.  Israel is a Jewish State and if you don't like that you can go to another nation - even an Islamic State - there are many to choose from.  - Jeri
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> *US has recognized Israel as a jewish state since '48*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Should the Palestinians lower themselves to US standards?


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Why would Christians be united for Israel, when the Knesset won't allow any Christmas celebrations or symbols (like a Christmas tree)?



> _Israels war on Christmas rages on
> 
> In what has become a yearly holiday tradition, *Israeli politicians are attempting to quash official attempts to recognize Christmas.* The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports:
> 
> ...


Apparently, there's no celebrating Christmas in the jewish state.

_Happy Hanukkah _


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> *Why would Christians be united for Israel,* when the Knesset won't allow any Christmas celebrations or symbols (like a Christmas tree)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They are easily duped.


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## irosie91 (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > *Why would Christians be united for Israel,* when the Knesset won't allow any Christmas celebrations or symbols (like a Christmas tree)?
> ...





No  christmas tree in the  KNESSET BUILDING   equals     the rendering of 
celebration of christmas   "ILLEGAL"?????          gee---------ok       if you say so 
Mr tin--------got anything else to say?------------did you light lamps for  DIVALI in 
your house?      or did you render the celebrating of DIVALI   "illegal"????     I have 
to admit--------I did not hang my stocking up by the fire place tonight-------but I 
have no doubt that there are stocking hanging in-----the local mosque next to the 
christmas tree with the ANGEL UP TOP


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## aris2chat (Dec 24, 2013)

Christmas tree are pagan.  

History of Christmas Trees ? History.com Articles, Video, Pictures and Facts


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Why would Christians be united for Israel, when the Knesset won't allow any Christmas celebrations or symbols (like a Christmas tree)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why would a non-Christian nation officially recognize a Christian holiday?

Swaid's sweeping statement makes good anti-Israel press for the weak-minded.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Muslim decorates Christmas tree in Gaza.






Gaza Mom » Blog Archive » I?m dreaming of a Gaza Christmas?


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## irosie91 (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




a muslim decorates a tree?       so?     I sang and played the violin in my high school 
CHRISTMAS SHOW     -----------no doubt    there was a  MENORAH IN MECCA this year---
one of those big giant    CHABAD things

   ------Oh   HOLY NIGHT----the stars are brightly shiningggggggg    la la la


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## aris2chat (Dec 24, 2013)

the blog mentions a palestinian man, it does not say he is muslim only that he owns a flower shop, and that was back in 2005.  Things in gaza have changed since then.





irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> the blog mentions a palestinian man, it does not say he is muslim only that he owns a flower shop, and that was back in 2005.  Things in gaza have changed since then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Laila
12/21/2005 at 8:08 am

Ibraham, what is your problem? The post is meant to show how fond and proud I am that we celebrate religios diversity in gaza. I am JOKING about the tree. FYI this man is muslim, not christian, so are 99% of gazans, but it is a tradition we have in gaza to celebrate xmas together, eid together, etc.

Gaza Mom » Blog Archive » I?m dreaming of a Gaza Christmas?


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Why would a non-Christian nation officially recognize a Christian holiday?
> 
> Swaid's sweeping statement makes good anti-Israel press for the weak-minded.


Why would Christian's support a non-Christian state?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Why would a non-Christian nation officially recognize a Christian holiday?
> ...



Correction: anti Christian state.


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## aris2chat (Dec 24, 2013)

Hamas is anti christian

Israel in their basic law provides freedom of religion for all.



P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Hamas is anti christian
> 
> Israel in their basic law provides freedom of religion for all.
> 
> ...



Israel is bulldozing Christian homes and businesses. Israel is destroying Christian crops and trees. Israel is ethnic cleansing Christians out of the holy land. Israel shoots at Christians killing some. Israel denies their access to their holy sites.

I would call that anti Christian.

Freedom of religion? *BS*


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Why would a non-Christian nation officially recognize a Christian holiday?
> ...



That's a personal choice.
For example, after studying European history I support Ireland's position over England's intrusion.

That's also the difference between an official recognition and support.
I can support Ireland's authentic gripe against England but I cannot do anything official about it.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



OK, after studying history I support the Palestinians.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Hamas is anti christian
> ...



Hmmm...Horse hockey.
Do you know anyone PERSONALLY who has suffered at the hands of these devilish Jews?
Have you ever been fired by a JEW?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



We can start at the beginning:



> At the time of the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, it is estimated that the Christians of Palestine numbered some 350,000. Almost 20 percent of the total population at the time, they constituted a vibrant and ancient community; their forbears had listened to St. Peter in Jerusalem as he preached at the first Pentecost. Yet Zionist doctrine held that Palestine was a land without a people for a people without a land. Of the 750,000 Palestinians that were forced from their homes in 1948, some 50,000 were Christians7 percent of the total number of refugees and 35 percent of the total number of Christians living in Palestine at the time.
> 
> In the process of Judaizing Palestine, numerous convents, hospices, seminaries, and churches were either destroyed or cleared of their Christian owners and custodians. In one of the most spectacular attacks on a Christian target, on May 17, 1948, the Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate was shelled with about 100 mortar roundslaunched by Zionist forces from the already occupied monastery of the Benedictine Fathers on Mount Zion. The bombardment also damaged St. Jacobs Convent, the Archangels Convent, and their appended churches, their two elementary and seminary schools, as well as their libraries, killing eight people and wounding 120.
> 
> Forgotten Christians | The American Conservative



Israels attitude toward Christians has not changed since then.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> US has recognized Israel as a jewish state since '48


 
We've been terrific backers of Israel.

Unfortunately, we've even ignored our own fundamental principles in doing so.

Today, 130 nations recognize the state of Palestine.  Yet, the US vetoes that progress in the UN and supports Israel in its program of land theft and ethnic cleansing.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Anders Strindberg...2004...Interesting.


CAMERA: Anders Strindberg Turns Truth on its Head in Christian Science Monitor
2006


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## SAYIT (Dec 24, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Bless you for brining up this issue of "ethnic cleansing" so even those Zionists can see the truth.  In 1948 there were approximarely 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  Let the truth be known to all & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org
> 
> ...



Some genocide, eh?


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## aris2chat (Dec 24, 2013)

You have been reading too many propaganda site.  You believe these things because you want them to be true not because they are.
You are really out of touch with what is happening in the region.
Israel does not target christians or christian businesses because they are christian.  Even if there were a case or two, there are likely other circumstances involved that you either do not know or are not stating.  Christians are persecuted for being christian.  Christians populations in the PA and Gaza have drastically diminished and those that remain have a great deal of difficulty because of their religion.  Israel has no control over that.
Even Christians in Jordan and Lebanon have been targeted by Islamists and businesses that some consider haram have been bombed, burned or trashed.





P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Hamas is anti christian
> ...


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

The Sudanese are murdering Christians as a protest against Israel's occupation of Tel Aviv.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 24, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Bless you for brining up this issue of "ethnic cleansing" so even those Zionists can see the truth.  In 1948 there were approximarely 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  Let the truth be known to all & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> ...



You laugh at genocide??

Regardless, please note that your comment isn't relevant to this thread.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> You have been reading too many propaganda site.  You believe these things because you want them to be true not because they are.
> You are really out of touch with what is happening in the region.
> Israel does not target christians or christian businesses because they are christian.  Even if there were a case or two, there are likely other circumstances involved that you either do not know or are not stating.  Christians are persecuted for being christian.  Christians populations in the PA and Gaza have drastically diminished and those that remain have a great deal of difficulty because of their religion.  Israel has no control over that.
> Even Christians in Jordan and Lebanon have been targeted by Islamists and businesses that some consider haram have been bombed, burned or trashed.
> ...





> Israel does not target christians or christian businesses because they are christian.



That is almost true. Israel targets Christians because they are not Jews.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > You have been reading too many propaganda site.  You believe these things because you want them to be true not because they are.
> ...



I'm going to play the game.
You're right!  The Jews are blood thirsty for Christian blood, which they save in jars for their EVIL PASSOVER CEREMONY.
I need some of that blood now!  Where is it?
It must cost a fortune in bullets, labor and body bags; where do those f*ing Jews get all that money from?
I know!  From the bank accounts of those stupid, stubborn Christians who would rather be slaughtered en masse than leave Israel.
The Jews MUST DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



You're sick.


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## SAYIT (Dec 24, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Silly girl. In light of the facts I find the claim of genocide to be laughable.


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## Sally (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > You have been reading too many propaganda site.  You believe these things because you want them to be true not because they are.
> ...



It is very strange that Mr. Tinmore, who "claims he is a Christian" appears to not be interested at all in the enormous amount of Christians who have been murdered and are still being murdered in the Middle East by the Muslims and wants the readers to think that the Jews target Christians just because they are non Jews.  

Historian: Israel safest place in Mideast for Christians - Israel Today | Israel News


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Acts of genocide do not have to be successful to be illegal.

Destroying food and water sources, and shelter are all illegal acts of genocide.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I paraphrase you and you see how sick you appear to be.

However..
WE MUST STOP THE EVER BLOODTHIRSTY JEWS WHO ARE MASS MURDERING ALL NON-JEWS IN ISRAEL.

Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it.
Well, that's what YOU post all day long.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> That's a personal choice.
> For example, after studying European history I support Ireland's position over England's intrusion.
> 
> That's also the difference between an official recognition and support.
> I can support Ireland's authentic gripe against England but I cannot do anything official about it.


I don't have a problem with Israel existing, but I do have a problem with them doing it on someone else's land.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > That's a personal choice.
> ...



At best it is physically impossible for a new nation not to be on land previously occupied by people.
Most of the Middle-East was divided in WWI and WWII against the wishes of the majority of their residents.
Most of these residents have been at war for over 1,000 years.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> I paraphrase you and you see how sick you appear to be.


You didn't paraphrase, you went off on some emotional rant.



Indeependent said:


> However..
> WE MUST STOP THE EVER BLOODTHIRSTY JEWS WHO ARE MASS MURDERING ALL NON-JEWS IN ISRAEL.


Fortunately, there are more choices than that.  

How about some Israeli's murdering some Christian's?

It doesn't have to be all or nothing.




Indeependent said:


> Sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it.
> Well, that's what YOU post all day long.


What's stupid is this black or white, either/or, all or nothing, crap you people keep pushing.  Either Israeli's are peace loving people, or their all bloodthirsty jews. Looking at things in just those terms, is pretty stupid.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> At best it is physically impossible for a new nation not to be on land previously occupied by people.
> Most of the Middle-East was divided in WWI and WWII against the wishes of the majority of their residents.
> Most of these residents have been at war for over 1,000 years.


Israel exists back past the Green Line.

It doesn't exist in the West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Sally said:


> It is very strange that Mr. Tinmore, who "claims he is a Christian" appears to not be interested at all in the enormous amount of Christians who have been murdered and are still being murdered in the Middle East by the Muslims and wants the readers to think that the Jews target Christians just because they are non Jews.
> 
> Historian: Israel safest place in Mideast for Christians - Israel Today | Israel News


There she goes, the lady troll trying to hijack the thread into a different subject.


----------



## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > I paraphrase you and you see how sick you appear to be.
> ...



Ah, but I am NOT the one presenting a Black and White situation where Israelis mindlessly slaughter non-Jews in Israel on a daily basis.

The Arabs cannot live with each other, as amply demonstrated by their neighbors, yet you expect Israel to welcome their lack of value of life with open arms.
Jews are lots of things but they can't be described as stupid.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



It does, but I never said anything like that.


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



REALLY?
You NEVER say...
WE MUST STOP THE EVER BLOODTHIRSTY JEWS WHO ARE MASS MURDERING ALL NON-JEWS IN ISRAEL.

You post this EXACT stuff all day long.


----------



## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > At best it is physically impossible for a new nation not to be on land previously occupied by people.
> ...



Israel won a war.
If the losers want it back, let them start another war.
Oh, that's right...they did.
Israel won that war and yet didn't take another inch of land because everyone told Israel that if they held back there would never be another war.
Then, mostly under Clinton, 300+ Jews were blown up by suicide bombers.

You figure out Israel's next move.
I know, leave Israel for New York.  I get it.


----------



## Sally (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > It is very strange that Mr. Tinmore, who "claims he is a Christian" appears to not be interested at all in the enormous amount of Christians who have been murdered and are still being murdered in the Middle East by the Muslims and wants the readers to think that the Jews target Christians just because they are non Jews.
> ...



There goes the moron who also doesn't particularly concern himself with the thousands and thousands of Christians murdered.  I would think that as someone who said he went to Catholic school, he would be keeping up on what is happening to the Christians in the Middle East.  By only concerning himself with what goes on in the Israel/Palestine conflict tells an awful lot about him.


Persecution of Christians in the Middle East is a crime against humanity | Tom Holland | Comment is free | theguardian.com


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

All this crap about Israel treating Christians respectfully, is a bunch of bullshit!



> _The myth of Israels favorable treatment of Palestinian Christians
> 
> *Israels Christian minority is marginalized in much the same manner as its Muslim *one
> 
> Israels fundamental basis is as a racist state built for Jews only, and the majority of the Jewish population doesnt really care what religion we are if were not Jewish._


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



When did Israel ever win any Palestinian land?

Link?


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## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> All this crap about Israel treating Christians respectfully, is a bunch of bullshit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're right, those Israelis are the biggest bastards on earth.
They should be wiped out.
Heil Hitler!


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Sally said:


> There goes the moron who also doesn't particularly concern himself with the thousands and thousands of Christians murdered.  I would think that as someone who said he went to Catholic school, he would be keeping up on what is happening to the Christians in the Middle East.  By only concerning himself with what goes on in the Israel/Palestine conflict tells an awful lot about him.
> 
> 
> Persecution of Christians in the Middle East is a crime against humanity | Tom Holland | Comment is free | theguardian.com


Wipe your ass with that bullshit!

Your only goal is to derail any conversation on Israel.

That's all you're doing.


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> You're right, those Israelis are the biggest bastards on earth.
> They should be wiped out.
> Heil Hitler!


See what I mean?  This emotional mood swing to the extreme, is not the response of a rational adult.  But it is typical of some punk kid, trying to act like he knows shit.


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## irosie91 (Dec 24, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > WillReadmore said:
> ...




good point----economic boycotts are  ACTS OF GENOCIDE.


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Here's how Israel treats Christians...



> _Israeli occupation, not Islam, forcing Palestinian Christians out of the West Bank
> 
> One third of Abouds open space has been turned into a buffer zone.
> *Hundreds of olive trees have been uprooted to make way for a dirt road
> ...


----------



## aris2chat (Dec 24, 2013)

Exodus of Christians is regional and nothing to do with Israel.  It has to do with Muslim tolerance or lack of.


    Muslims Continue Pushing Christians Out of Bethlehem
Israel News | Israel's #1 News Site - Israel National News  News*
    Dec 9, 2008 - Muslims Continue Pushing Christians Out of Bethlehem ... torture, kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion," he said.
    Palestinians are Pushing Christians Out of Bethlehem - YouTube
    &#9658; 2:09&#9658; 2:09
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjnywPRmAX8*
    Jul 18, 2012 - Uploaded by Redemption1948
    Muslims Continue Pushing Christians Out of Bethlehem Muslims in Judea ... In late 2007 an evangelical ...
    Muslims Drive out Christians from "Disputed" Territories, Bethlehem ...
    atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.../muslims-drive-out-christians-from-disp...*
    Dec 19, 2011 - Op-Ed: Muslims Drive out Christians from PA Territories Arutz Sheva "The ... kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion.
    O, Muslim town of Bethlehem... | Mail Online - Daily Mail
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article.../O-Muslim-town-Bethlehem-.html*
    Dec 16, 2006 - Christians flee persecution in Jesus's birthplace leaving Islam so dominant ... The stars were out in force to cheer on Rafael Nadal and Novak ...
    Disappearing Christians in the Middle East :: Daniel Pipes
www.danielpipes.org/1050/disappearing-christians-in-the-middle-east*
    "Christian leaders are being forced to abandon their followers to the forces of ... Today Ramallah is a large Islamic city and Bethlehem's Christians are near ...
    War on Christmas Comes to Muslim-Run Bethlehem (VIDEO ...
War on Christmas Comes to Muslim-Run Bethlehem (VIDEO) | FrontPage Magazine
    Dec 26, 2012 - Christians have been forced out of Bethlehem and the city went from a Christian majority under the Israelis to a Muslim majority under ...



Billo_Really said:


> Here's how Israel treats Christians...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Exodus of Christians is regional and nothing to do with Israel.  It has to do with Muslim tolerance or lack of.
> 
> 
> Muslims Continue Pushing Christians Out of Bethlehem
> ...



Oh jees, a who's who of Israeli propaganda sites.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Exodus of Christians is regional and nothing to do with Israel.  It has to do with Muslim tolerance or lack of.


Nothing ever has anything to do with Israel. That's Israel's biggest problem.  You never take responsibility for anything you do.  It's always someone else.  Israel is never at fault for anything and I think that's a bunch of bullshit!


----------



## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > You're right, those Israelis are the biggest bastards on earth.
> ...



I'm mocking you.
And getting quite a good laugh out of it.
You post this and you think you're being mature.

You do realize that the ONLY reason the Arabs who lived in Israel in 1948 are perhaps still alive, or who have surviving children, is because they were locked out of their neighbors borders.
If they breached those borders they would have been shot dead.


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> I'm mocking you.
> And getting quite a good laugh out of it.
> You post this and you think you're being mature.
> 
> ...


What the hell does that mean?

You're not making any sense.


----------



## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > I'm mocking you.
> ...



The VERY sad fact is that NO Arab nations want these Bedouins; they bring nothing to the table except as political pawns.
They are NOT allowed into Jordan.
If they crossed the border they would be shot dead to rot in the sun.


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> The VERY sad fact is that NO Arab nations want these Bedouins; they bring nothing to the table except as political pawns.
> They are NOT allowed into Jordan.
> If they crossed the border they would be shot dead to rot in the sun.


Why should they want them?

Their ancestral homeland is right where they are.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



They do not want foreigners in their country any more than the Palestinians want foreigners in theirs.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 24, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > The VERY sad fact is that NO Arab nations want these Bedouins; they bring nothing to the table except as political pawns.
> ...




Wrong again     In fact --etymologists and anthropologists have determined 
that the  BEDOUINS  of the Negev are MIGRANTS FROM ARABIA -----Bedoouins --
have roamed over   LARGE AREAS for centuries----ignoring national borders----
they have no actual  "HOMELAND" ---except for many who migrated fairly recently---
ie in the approximately the past 1500 years  FROM ARABIA -------the same is true of 
bedouins of SINAI    ----and---of course---of Jordan.    Your notion that Bedouins have 
STAYED PUT   for thousands of years   is  actually   ludicrous.      Bedouins are 
nothing new------they are described in the bible and talmud------caravan robbers and 
SLAVE TRADERS-----arabians.     -----they followed their herds and the caravan 
trails.     As caravans traveled from the east  ------to west----even as far as Libya---
they moved along the same trails and back and forth ----etc etc.     They are DEFINED 
in the talmud as having -----NO HOMES-----nomads    (also illiterate and dangerous)

Their language is arabic-----they did not LEARN arabic because of arab invasion---
it is their native tongue because they ORIGINATED IN ARABIA        For the record---
the muslims of  SUDAN----also orginated in ARABIA------they are arabs who developed 
sudan as a slave trading outpost more than 2000 years ago.    The muslims of KHARTOUM---
identify themselves as  "ARABS"     and they are right------they are true arabs originating 
in arabia


----------



## Indeependent (Dec 24, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Oh, come on!
KILL THE JEWS!


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 24, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...




Today?     It's christmas day----what would tiny tim say?


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 24, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Wrong again     In fact --etymologists and anthropologists have determined
> that the  BEDOUINS  of the Negev are MIGRANTS FROM ARABIA -----Bedoouins --
> have roamed over   LARGE AREAS for centuries----ignoring national borders----
> they have no actual  "HOMELAND" ---except for many who migrated fairly recently---
> ...


Bullshit propaganda.


----------



## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

A dream of a flying horse



Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> A dream of a flying horse


That's not as stupid as thinking God "chose" you.


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You are partially right.. But the migrations north out of Arabia began over six thousand years ago.. and many settled in towns, villages and oases. Bedouin groups have close relations with settled groups... often taking the live stock of the townspeople in search of pasture. The Bedu depend on settled people for grain, pottery, textiles, date and various other goods.

The settled people depend on the Bedu for meat, leather, trade goods, salt, etc. Most Bedu tribes had symbiotic relationships with towns and villages all over the West Bank.

They were robbers and herders  and also traders from Mesopotamia to the Levant to Egypt to Bahrain.

The reason they speak Arabic in northern Sudan is because the Arabs have traded with the Sudanese for thousands of years.


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> A dream of a flying horse
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There were Arabs in Jerusalem as early as the end of the Babylonian exile.. and there were Arab tribes in Samaria as early as 700 BC.


----------



## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

Jesus believed in and taught the torah, but you don't?
Chosen to carry for a purpose, to be the prophets and preserve the torah.  Chosen to prepare the next temple.  It is not about superiority, but part of the binding agreement between god and the jewish people was returning the jews to their homeland and housing the torah and commandments in Jerusalem.
Abraham's other seven children were sent to find a place elsewhere in the world.  Issac was to inherit Abraham's tribe and lands, and Jacob inherited the lands and promises from Issac, and the jewish people from the tribes of Jacob.  Moses returned the people to land of their forefathers.
Neither the bible nor the quran dispute this, except that Ishmael was the one Abraham was going to sacrifice as first born, but tribal law of the time, even arabic tribal law, the illegitimate son, offspring of a concubine or servant, does not inherit before the true son.  Ishmael would have been fifth in line not even second let alone first.   There were three other legitimate sons beside Issac.





Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > A dream of a flying horse
> ...


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > A dream of a flying horse
> ...




really?     a few arabs wandered into   Jerusalem?       how do you know?      It is not 
at all impossible----by then jews had lived in arabia for many centuries---and in 
ethiopia and in Yemen-----in fact jews had already been in Afghanistan and in  India ----and   asians had gotten into North america via the Bering straits -----what is your point---
HUMANS MOVE AROUND? -------so???         nope---there were no  "arab tribes"  in samaria------you are confused--------arab tribes were in arabia.      That is why they were  called  "arab tribes"       What language did those   'samarian arab tribes'  of your 'imagination speak?


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



The spoke Western Semitic and South Semetic...

The Torah speaks of Arabs in Jerusalem at the end of the Babylonian exile.

Joseph's brothers sold him to the Ishmaelites.

Sargon 2 settled four Arab tribes that he had conquered in Samaria.



2 Kings 17:24 The king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Avva, and from Hamath and Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel; and they possessed Samaria, and lived in the cities of it


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## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

Joseph was sold to traveling traders.
and Sargon II settled nomadic Chaldean and Aramaean tribes, from northern Syria and eastern Turkey.




Shaarona said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


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## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Joseph was sold to traveling traders.
> and Sargon II settled nomadic Chaldean and Aramaean tribes, from northern Syria and eastern Turkey.
> 
> 
> ...



The Bible says the traders were Ishmaelites.

The Chaldean's homeland was in the relatively poor country in the far south of Mesopotamia, at the head of the Persian Gulf. They first came to prominence in the late 8th Century BC. 

Remember that both Moses and Abraham had Arab wives.

Arabs were in Syria very early.

The Book of Jubilees, in the other hand, claims that the sons of Ishmael intermingled with the 6 sons of Keturah, from Abraham, and their descendants were called Arabs and Ishmaelites: 

Book of Jubilees 20:13 And Ishmael and his sons, and the sons of Keturah and their sons, went together and dwelt from Paran to the entering in of Babylon in all the land which is towards the East facing the desert. And these mingled with each other, and their name was called Arabs, and Ishmaelites.


The first written evidence of  "Arab" occurs in an Assyrian inscription of 853 BCE, where Shalmaneser III lists a King Gindibu of mâtu arbâi (Arab land) as among the people he defeated at the Battle of Karkar.


----------



## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

Babylonians back then were not distiguished as arab, and Chaldean were Assyrians and more closely related to armenians and kurds of north eastern syria than to arabs, who invaded Sassanid territory in what is now Iraq in 633 AD.







Shaarona said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Joseph was sold to traveling traders.
> ...


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Babylonians back then were not distiguished as arab, and Chaldean were Assyrians and more closely related to armenians and kurds of north eastern syria than to arabs, who invaded Sassanid territory in what is now Iraq in 633 AD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Arabs mixed with Assyrians and Chaldeans very early because they began leaving Arabia very early.. As the well-watered Savannah of Arabian peninsula became more and more arid between 10,000 and 6,000 BC they migrated in waves.

Even assuming that Abraham and Moses were fictional characters or some sort of literary devices...  they probably represented a true history of the movement of people... that is backed up by archeology, changes in language and geologic changes in the region.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Babylonians back then were not distiguished as arab, and Chaldean were Assyrians and more closely related to armenians and kurds of north eastern syria than to arabs, who invaded Sassanid territory in what is now Iraq in 633 AD.
> ...





right----humans move lots and MIX lots-------but that does not make them  "arabs"  -----

arabs back then -lived in ARABIA   and spoke arabic.      "sons of ishmael"  is not       
synonymous with "arabs"          chaldeans lived in  mesopotamia----not arabia 

who was the  "arab"  wife of moses?         no doubt-----the stories of the bible 
do represent migrations of people--------generally peoples of  mesopotamia and 
egypt and canaan-----not particularly arabia.    ------arabia is ON THE WAY TO THE 
EAST -----and sorta to ethiopia ---------        it was wilderness -----without literacy 
until   about 300  AD   

you are confusing that which is called  "arabs"  today with-----the arabs of arabia ----
2500 years ago


----------



## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

Sasanians were persian not arab and to call one the other would be an insult


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Sasanians were persian not arab and to call one the other would be an insult




even back then-?       oh   ok       Long ago when I was young-----and had a weekend 
job in a large hospital-------evening receptionist----saturday nite when nothing was 
happening.  ---------A new doc from "OVERSEAS"   showed up -----told me his name---
and  said sharply      "I AM NOT AN ARAB"-----------sheeeesh      I did not accuse him 
of being an arab......            well-----he was Iranian------it was my intro to the 
utter hatred iranians have for arabs ------as it turned out -----he also despised 
his pakistani room-mate.     ------somethings never change.    There is more---
even SHIITES  from  pakistan and india-------got dirty looks from the Iranians 

    ????          some things never change,      I cannot figure out how 
    HEZBOLLAH  functions -----in today's " arab"  lands       Iranians I knew back then 
    mocked anything  now called  "arab"      from the music to the cuisine


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



It is referred to as Arbah or Aribi.. They were trading with and intermarrying with people all along their rather extensive trade routes.. and they were not illiterate.  There are thousands of cuneiform tablets all over Arabia.

The 9,000 year old Maqar civilization was very sophisticated. you should see the artifacts... and Wall paintings.


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Jesus believed in and taught the torah, but you don't?
> Chosen to carry for a purpose, to be the prophets and preserve the torah.  Chosen to prepare the next temple.  It is not about superiority, but part of the binding agreement between god and the jewish people was returning the jews to their homeland and housing the torah and commandments in Jerusalem.
> Abraham's other seven children were sent to find a place elsewhere in the world.  Issac was to inherit Abraham's tribe and lands, and Jacob inherited the lands and promises from Issac, and the jewish people from the tribes of Jacob.  Moses returned the people to land of their forefathers.
> Neither the bible nor the quran dispute this, except that Ishmael was the one Abraham was going to sacrifice as first born, but tribal law of the time, even arabic tribal law, the illegitimate son, offspring of a concubine or servant, does not inherit before the true son.  Ishmael would have been fifth in line not even second let alone first.   There were three other legitimate sons beside Issac.


Yeah, but according to the Torah, the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back down to earth.  Granted, I'm no expert on Judaism, but isn't that what the *Three Strong Oaths* say?


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Sasanians were persian not arab and to call one the other would be an insult
> ...



Very true.. the Iranians consider themselves to be Persians..

I am not Arab, but I made many trips to Iran back in the day.


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## irosie91 (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





you are very confused       the  MAQAR    civilization did not  -----progress into the 
   ARABIAN CIVILIZATION-------it died           --------the language of ancient egypt 
   did not  progress into the  ARABIC of egypt today----either. 

   the  "arab culture"  of arabia-------2500 years ago------was arabic speaking and 
   unlettered.  ----------'other people'   residing in arabia------like zoroastrians, 
   christians and  jews-------were lettered ------the zoroastrians,   jews  and 
   christians residing in arabia-----were not  "arabs"

   humans in proximity-----always   "mix"-------but they can maintain 
   separate cultures.      and often do-------as they did in arabia.     In fact 
   if they had not----the followers of muhummad would not have known whom 
   to KILL OFF

   BTW    what are you calling   "arabia"???  ----another vague term-------like  
   SYRIA/PALESTINA


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



The Arabian peninsula is Arabia..... There were few Jewish tribes in Arabia.. Seems they migrated mostly from Jericho. There were some Nestorian Christians in the East and on Tarut Island... also in Najran who were protected under Islam and exempt from Jizya.. The Jewish king of Yemen.. an Arab convert..  is famous for the burning of the Christians of Najran.

The al Maqar didn't "die out".. they dispersed...


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## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

Magar lived in cental arabia before it as desert

Saudi Aramco World : Discovery at al-Magar


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Magar lived in cental arabia before it as desert
> 
> Saudi Aramco World : Discovery at al-Magar



Do you get Aramco World too?


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...




LOL      Now I understand-----you are a victim of   islamo revisionist history.    Yemenis are not "arabs"  ------they are YEMENIS------Yemen is not part of the arabian peninsula----its people  were and are not nomads pushing sheep around.   Yemen is a fertile land----
albeit rendered a disaster today by the INVADERS FROM THE PENINSULA-----that country was invaded by meccaist dogs after-----the rapist pig died       
The burning of christians is-----an islamicist myth---
a kind of cover for the filth that took place in arabia at the behest of the rapist pig.  
and later on was reprised in yemen by the meccaist dogs  
There were christians in Yemen until ------the meccaist dogs got there and took over---
on a sea of blood

"dispersed"   ???    LOL      right----the culture died out----is no longer extant----
 something like   TROY  

PS    my husband is a yemeni-----call him an "arab"  and he will spit.


----------



## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

Well I guess you did not get high marks in class.  Do you even know what the torah is?  
When do you think the exile occurred?





Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus believed in and taught the torah, but you don't?
> ...


----------



## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Yes, Yemen is part of the Arabian peninsula as are Qatar, the UAE and Oman.

I am sorry you husband feels that way..

The existence of a Christian community in Najran is attested by several historical sources of the Arabic peninsula, where it recorded as having been created in the 5th century CE or perhaps a century earlier. According to the Arab Muslim historian, Ibn Ishaq, Najran was the first place where Christianity took root in South Arabia.

Christians built a church there in Yemen in Zafar in 354 AD.

To stop the advance of Christianity, in the 5th century individual Arab kings initially converted to Judaism.

 there was a terrible drought in the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula in the middle of the 6th century. There was also a plague epidemic that began in 541. 

So there were three Abrahamic religions vying for dominance.

How do you like Yemen?


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> Well I guess you did not get high marks in class.  Do you even know what the torah is?


My, aren't we the rude one?

Are you saying there's no such thing as the _*"Three Strong Oaths"?*_





aris2chat said:


> When do you think the exile occurred?


I don't believe the exile ever happened.  The diaspora is a myth.  If it actually happened, how come no one can find any evidence of it occurring?


----------



## aris2chat (Dec 25, 2013)

The three oaths you refer to are from the talmud, which contain debates, pro an con, on  the laws and commentaries.  The torah are the five books of moses.  The exile was ended by Cyrus and he paid to rebuild the temple 516bce.




Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Well I guess you did not get high marks in class.  Do you even know what the torah is?
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 25, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> The three oaths you refer to are from the talmud, which contain debates, pro an con, on  the laws and commentaries.  The torah are the five books of moses.  The exile was ended by Cyrus and he paid to rebuild the temple 516bce.


Okay, fine.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Dec 25, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong.  Israel is a Jewish State and if you don't like that you can go to another nation - even an Islamic State - there are many to choose from.  - Jeri
> ...



You are speaking as if you are the spokesman for all America.  You are not.  You are merely sharing an opinion and Israel is a Jewish state whether that agrees with your opinion or not.  

note*  African Americans are a race - not a religion.   The only fight for freedom the Muslims need to concern themselves with is their own.  ( from Islam )   - Jeri


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## irosie91 (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





OH gee-----you are a  BAATHIST  ARABIST ISLAMICIST NATIONALIST 
      thanks for the lesson in idiot arab nationalist revisionist history----

     "ALL THE WORLD IS   ARAAAAABBBBB"  

        reminds me of the muslims from southeast asia I have known----
                  "ALL OF SOUTHEAST ASIA IS THE MUGHAL EMPIRE" ---and the 
                       MUGHALS INVENTED    chappatis and dhal

 now for real history------Jews were in Yemen LONG before christianity came 
   about.       and already in a considerable level of power-----the fights that did 
   come about  generally involved   ETHIOPIANS   ---yemen had close 
   economic and cultural ties with  ethiopians------and----it was in ETHIOPIA 
   that christianity also became prominent.      Ethnic ethiopians are still 
   oppressed in yemen by  muslims   (now called arabs since they now 
   speak arabic and are muslims).    Christianity was wiped out in Yemen---
   by    arab/muslims        In fact---even in Ethiopia ----muslims exert deadly 
   force to impose islam


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## Indeependent (Dec 25, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus believed in and taught the torah, but you don't?
> ...



I believe that's from TNT's final tome, Revelatons.
TNT, chronoligically starting from The Book Of James, and Cannonically starting with The Gospel According To Matthew, is NOT part of The Jewish Scripture.

BTW,The chronoligically earliest The Book Of James was Cannonized to the END of the TNT because James, either the brother or contemporary of Yeshu, states emphatically that the Commandments are NOT to be abandoned.
But the reality is that Paul, via his Epistles, was a better salesman.
But don't tale my word for it, read The Book Of James.


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## Indeependent (Dec 25, 2013)

Three Strong Oaths are a Midrash...these are not laws, they are fokelore intended to make people think about how God wants us to behave.


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## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



Well apparently James and Paul had a disagreement.. James thought you had to become Jewish and follow Jewish law before you could become a Christian.. Paul disagreed and Paul won. Politics is not new in religion.

The Commandments weren't abandoned.. just the laws and rituals of the Levites that set Jews apart from others .. That was about identity.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 25, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


You're the one who brought up genocide.

I'm the one who said you are on the wrong thread.


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## Indeependent (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Huh?  Can you provide some concrete examples of that immensely vague sentence?


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## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Its not vague at all.. Leviticus was written during and after the Babylonian exile.. Deuteronomy was written later and presented verbally to the people.. 

During the exile.. and not all returned... many began to marry foreign wives as they always had since Moses, Abraham, David and Solomon.. but according to the Bible that became a burning issue.. That's when the shift to matrilineal linage began.

They were told to dump their foreign wives and children of those unions. Of course many wouldn't do that.. The result was the first Diaspora.


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## Indeependent (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



OMG!
Leviticus, Deuteronomy.
When's the last time you actually read 10 verses in a row from these 2 of the 5 books of Moshe?
You are very quickly starting to lose your validity on this issue.
These two Books of the Torah have, "And God said to Moshe", written in them HUNDREDS of times.
Moshe died BEFORE entering Israel.
If these books were written after the Babylonian exile, THE FIRST TEMPLE COULDN'T FUNCTION!
The Jews COULDN'T BE KOSHER before the Babylonian exile!

Take a step back; you're a nice person but your historical perspective is preposterous.


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## SAYIT (Dec 25, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > WillReadmore said:
> ...



That's a bit disingenuous of you Will. Evidently integrity isn't part of your character. You charged me with laughing at genocide and as the reconstructed thread below reveals, I was responding to your bogus ethnic cleansing claims. 

Quote: Originally Posted by MJB12741
Bless you for brining up this issue of "ethnic cleansing" so even those Zionists can see the truth. In 1948 there were approximarely 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just under 6 million of them left. Let the truth be known to all & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

Quote: Originally Posted by WillReadmore 
Your new excuse for ethnic cleansing is even more pathetic than the current excuses.

Quote: Originally Posted by SAYIT  
Some genocide, eh?


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## Shaarona (Dec 25, 2013)

Indeependent said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
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Read the Jewish prophets on good figs and bad figs.

Animal sacrifice was just a temple money maker. Moses lived 800 years before the "laws and rituals" were written.

Genesis and Exodus were written after Deuteronomy. .. different  versions  and lifted from the rich mythos they learned in Babylon...

One version from Judah.. another version from Israel.. They were cobbled together under King Omri who was trying to reunite the two... when Israel was a vassal state under Egypt.


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## Indeependent (Dec 25, 2013)

Shaarona said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



Where is the scientific research on this pile of mis-information?
I'm starting to see a "The Jews copied everything they have from everybody else" pattern going on here.
Are you a self-hating Jew?
Once again, where's the research?

"Read the Jewish prophets on good figs and bad figs."...We'll leave the Prophets on the side for now; the Prophets are NOT the Five Books Of Moshe.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 25, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


I'm not speaking as a "spokesman" for America - I'm simply pointing out what America has stood for from the start as expressed in our founding documents.

This isn't merely an opinion.

The fact that Israel is a Jewish state is a statement of apartheid, obviously.  We don't accept apartheid - we accept democracy.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 25, 2013)

Yes & the Persians deeply resent Arabs calling themselves Persians after the Muslims stole the land of the indigenius Zoroastrians & all but totally annihilated their people off the face of the earth.




Shaarona said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Dec 25, 2013)

Israel is so "apartheid" it is the only country in the entire Middle East to have citizens of nearlly all living faiths.  Just curious what percentage of Christians & Jews are citizens in the non apartheid Arab countries?   And do they have equal voting rights in the government like the Palestinians do in the Israeli Knesset?




WillReadmore said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > WillReadmore said:
> ...


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## WillReadmore (Dec 26, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Israel is so "apartheid" it is the only country in the entire Middle East to have citizens of nearlly all living faiths.  Just curious what percentage of Christians & Jews are citizens in the non apartheid Arab countries?   And do they have equal voting rights in the government like the Palestinians do in the Israeli Knesset?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you want to discuss those other nations with horrible governments, start a thread.

Finding someone worse is NOT an excuse.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 26, 2013)

You make no sense at all.





WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel is so "apartheid" it is the only country in the entire Middle East to have citizens of nearlly all living faiths.  Just curious what percentage of Christians & Jews are citizens in the non apartheid Arab countries?   And do they have equal voting rights in the government like the Palestinians do in the Israeli Knesset?
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Dec 26, 2013)

My objection to the Israeli government is over their treatment of Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep them in Israel rather than finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant the Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.





MJB12741 said:


> You make no sense at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## WillReadmore (Dec 26, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> You make no sense at all.
> 
> 
> WillReadmore said:
> ...



How are you confused?

This idea that there might be worse nations somewhere makes no difference.  It's as illogical as saying that 70 years ago the quite bigotry we held against Jews in America was OK, because what was going on in Germany was worse.

Being better than some other horrible case isn't what gets you heavenly reward.  St. Peter doesn't care if you can point to someone worse than you.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 26, 2013)

Well I certainly agree Israel must stop provoking Palestinians by keeping them in Israel with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions.




WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > You make no sense at all.
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Dec 26, 2013)

Which is worse for Israel's enemies?  Jewish Zionists or Christian Zionists?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Dec 26, 2013)

I THINK A MORE appropriate name for this John Hagee led organization would be Christians United For Satan.

A perfect description of a cult leader and his obedient followers.


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## Sally (Dec 26, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> I THINK A MORE appropriate name for this John Hagee led organization would be Christians United For Satan.
> 
> A perfect description of a cult leader and his obedient followers.



Why, Mrs. Sherri, I think those who want to kill the Infidels are certainly followers of Mr. Lucifier.  Did you have coffee with him this morning?


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## Lipush (Dec 26, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > WillReadmore said:
> ...



This isn't even an opinion. Its a mockery of intelligence.

Iran and Saudi are apartheids? They declair themselves.muslim countries.

Israel is the only light in the darkness.of the.mideast, and what you say is hogwash which you cannot prove or back your claim of.


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## Lipush (Dec 26, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> Which is worse for Israel's enemies?  Jewish Zionists or Christian Zionists?



Delusional leftists


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## WillReadmore (Dec 26, 2013)

Lipush said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...


Theft of property from Palestinian residents of West Bank can be seen in the press all the time.  There have been cases in the last couple weeks. 

The US press doesn't cover it.  Possibly, because it's old news.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 26, 2013)

MJB12741 said:


> My objection to the Israeli government is over their treatment of Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep them in Israel rather than finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant the Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.


Surrounding Arab countries already have relocation camps full of Palestinians who are citizens of West Bank and Gaza as well as Israel (by international law).

Besides, why are you suggesting ways for Israel to better accomplish their crime of ethnic cleansing?  Friends of Israel should be working towards Israel being a upstanding, legal nation respected throughout the world.


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## Kondor3 (Dec 26, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > My objection to the Israeli government is over their treatment of Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep them in Israel rather than finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant the Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.
> ...


Israel can be an upstanding, legal, respected nation, just as soon as they've completed their necessary objective of chasing the last of the Muslim-Arabs out of the lands between the river and the sea.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 26, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Thank you - it needs to be recognized that THAT is there objective.

Only then can Israel's criminality be effectively opposed.


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## Kondor3 (Dec 26, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > WillReadmore said:
> ...


Their intentions have been obvious to any blind man since 1948; certainly since 1967.

And The West is going to let them do it.

Why?

Because we like Jews better than we like Muslims.

Because the Christians have a lot of land, and the Muslims have a lot of land, and the Hindus have a lot of land, and the Buddhists have a lot of land, but the Jews have none, and they need a little sliver of land to call their own after 2000 years.

So, we're (The West) letting them re-take their old ancestral and spiritual homeland.

They lost 6,000,000 of their men, women and children within Living Memory and we (The West) did not stop it.

We are letting them re-take the land of their old Kingdom because we feel guilty about the Holocaust.

We are letting them re-take the Holy Land as collective penance for not stopping the Holocaust.

Populations get shifted-around all the time.

The Muslims have stolen much of Africa and the Middle East and Western Asia, and for centuries, even pieces of Europe (Spain, Sicily, Albania, Greece, etc.) from their owners and populations.

It's the Muslims turn to be pushed-around and pushed-out, as they've done so often to so many others in the past.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 26, 2013)

AMEN!  Let there be peace already.







Kondor3 said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


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## irosie91 (Dec 26, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel is so "apartheid" it is the only country in the entire Middle East to have citizens of nearlly all living faiths.  Just curious what percentage of Christians & Jews are citizens in the non apartheid Arab countries?   And do they have equal voting rights in the government like the Palestinians do in the Israeli Knesset?
> ...




wrong again-----Israel consists of people who escaped filth like you and the people 
who created  what you call "horrible govenments"      It is that very same filth 
that  seeks to destroy israel and replace it with filth like you and them.     Citing that filth 
is absolutely LOGICAL       As a prime example----the filth of the CESSPITS ---saudi 
arabia  and Iran is precisely what filth like you and they wish to RE IMPOSE  on jews---
and----in fact,   on the rest of the world.    All people  have a right to cite your filth and 
resist it        The US has traditionally  PROTECTED itself  and has continues to do so.  
That is why we have HOMELAND  SECURITY      to protect against your filth.   We 
also have immigration law and we deprive HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of liberty----lock 
them up in jail-----because of the danger they are to US.     Your comment is as idiotic 
as a suggestion that no one should be jailed-----because it is not nice to imprison people.

It not nice to  DESTROY LIFE-----so never use an anti biotic        

   the definition of  "anti bioltic" -----is   "against a living thing"


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## MJB12741 (Dec 26, 2013)

You mentioned the filth in Iran.  Yes indeed.  What a tragedy is Iran. Once the greatest nation on earth.  The land of Cyrus the Great.  The very heart of the Persian empire.  

From the grandeur & glory of Persepolis under Zoroastrian rule to the slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.  So much for Sherri to be proud of.




irosie91 said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Dec 27, 2013)

After the Muslim invasion of Persia, gone are all that was the greatness of Persia.  And to make matters even more tragic is the fact that today's Muslim Iranians call themselves "Persians."  LOL!

Persepolis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





MJB12741 said:


> You mentioned the filth in Iran.  Yes indeed.  What a tragedy is Iran. Once the greatest nation on earth.  The land of Cyrus the Great.  The very heart of the Persian empire.
> 
> From the grandeur & glory of Persepolis under Zoroastrian rule to the slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.  So much for Sherri to be proud of.
> 
> ...


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## WillReadmore (Dec 27, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...


Partly true.  The process by which Israel got Israel wasn't entirely peaceful or legal, but it did happen and it did come from some emotional source.

But, Israel ended up with the land on their side of the green line, and now they are taking parts of Palestine - which is ABSOLUTELY illegal.  There isn't any question about that.  You can't find a nation that thinks it is legal.  Bush believed it was illegal.  Even ISRAEL sees it as illegal!

Besides, even if they were to annex West Bank, it would STILL be illegal to perform ethnic cleansing operations on it.  Ethnic cleansing IS a crime.

Plus, ALL those residents of West Bank have rights to their private property - which is being stolen from them.


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## WillReadmore (Dec 27, 2013)

Kondor3 said:


> Israel can be an upstanding, legal, respected nation, just as soon as they've completed their necessary objective of chasing the last of the Muslim-Arabs out of the lands between the river and the sea.
> [/SIZE]


No, I highly doubt that.

Israel can't expect to be forgiven and considered "upstanding" after perpetrating a crime of this magnitude.  Ethnic cleansing, the theft of property, chasing families into relocation camps in other nations where they languish for generations - these are not things that warrant easy forgiveness, and the related problems will be perpetual.


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## aris2chat (Dec 27, 2013)

The construction Israel want to get bids on, after they release 1400 palestinian prisoners, are in two established settlement.
Settlement that Israel is trading land for.


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## Billo_Really (Dec 27, 2013)

aris2chat said:


> The construction Israel want to get bids on, after they release 1400 palestinian prisoners, are in two established settlement.
> Settlement that Israel is trading land for.


You can't trade, what you don't have.

And Israel does not own that land.


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## aris2chat (Dec 27, 2013)

Most land might not be owned by private citizens but Israel certainly has the right to state land and can exchange land for land in order to reach a mutual agreement with the PA.  
Israel withdrew and gave Sinai to Egypt, Jordan handed over the WB , which it had annexed, to Israel.  Now Israel is in the process of handing over the rest of the WB they still control to the PA.  Some of the settlements will remain part of Israel and Israel will give land to the PA in exchange.
You could say the PA does own land till Israel gives it to them.  How much and were is part of the negotiations.  Israel gave the palestinians gaza, and hamas now operates it's own islamic government separate from the PA.
Hamas is still at war with Israel, while the PA was trying to talk peace.




Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > The construction Israel want to get bids on, after they release 1400 palestinian prisoners, are in two established settlement.
> ...


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## irosie91 (Dec 27, 2013)

for those who do not know------the unwavring PARTY-LINE----is 
   "ALL OF THE MIDDLE EAST IS MUSLIM LAND"

I learned that fact almost 50 years ago from the son of a pakistani 
diplomate.       Later on I learned from a muslim from New Dehli----
ALL OF THE INDIAN SUBCONTINENT IS REALLY THE MUGHAL EMPIRE---
and  "MUSLIM LAND"   

the GOOD NEWS IS----neither jews nor hindus nor christians need worry 
about  their sacred shrines----MUSLIMS CAN TAKE CARE OF THEM
   (sorry---no one mentioned buddhists back then)


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## irosie91 (Dec 27, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > My objection to the Israeli government is over their treatment of Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep them in Israel rather than finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant the Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.
> ...




Israel was formed as a refuge for jews who escaped genocide from your kith and 
kin in countries that include ----just about all the other countries of north africa ---
besides others in the rest of the world        Demographic shifts and border 
shifts for the protection of the victims of the kind of filth your kith and kin perpetuate 
is neither new nor ENDED      In fact notables in history-----INSISTED ON IT-----
   GOOD OLE'   ZIA    is one such gentleman

There are demographic shifts going on right now-------in the OLD PART OF 
"PALESTINE"   called   "SYRIA"   

There are hundreds of thousands of people lining the gutters of   kolkata (the erstwhile 
CALCUTTA)    who according to your reasoning are   "BY INTERNATIONAL LAW"---
citizens of  PAKISTAN  and OWN the land now called  "BANGLE DESH"
---------I have relatives who are citizens----according to 
your reasoning of some of the richest  OIL PRODUCING LANDS in the world----in fact 
they should OWN THE LAND based on length of residence.  of their ancestors 


be careful of that which you wish for

   (when did I get my oil well???)


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## WillReadmore (Dec 27, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


Well, now isn't that sweet!  

As it turns out, my relatives are Dutch.  They were members of the Dutch resistance during the war.  They hid a fairly large Jewish family successfully throughout much of the war, finally helping them escape.

Your reaction to your own experiences hits me as incredibly strange.  

If you have the kind of knowledge you claim, how can you possibly be in favor of continuing such atrocities when you see them happen to others?

Problems such as you mention and as exist in West Bank today make me want to scream, "ENOUGH!"

What does it take for us to learn?


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## irosie91 (Dec 27, 2013)

WillReadmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > WillReadmore said:
> ...



What atrocities?        I have been to Israel a few times and I live in the USA---
very near a very large enclave of arabs---arabs love me.       I do know about 
LOTS of atrocities however and have even seen lots of the victims of past atrocities---
one of my patients was a clear victim of gross medical neglect in  saudi arabia ----
another ---not mine-----a victim of gross neglect in Yemen     ------another ---one sorta
  mine---a victim of the gross neglect of gazans prior to  1967     His father came to the USA 
to take the poor kid home so he could get him into  Hadassah Hospital in Israel ---but---
the jewish doctors managed him well over here. ----the head of the department got 
invited to gaza----as did I-----we both laughed and the father said  "don't worry--I 
will take care of you"

oh yes----and then there was the Egyptian general------gross medical neglect in Egypt---
that really hot shot----head of nephrology at the univeristy hospital---the Orthodox 
jew------cured him

getting back to atrocities-----I am not over 90 years old---but old enough to remember 
the  genocide of Biafrans        remember that one?      and the genocide of hindus in 
east pakistan and the rape of   1/4 million girls---both hindu and muslims-----remember? 
and all those african things    remember?        Idi Amin was named an ISLAMIC HERO 
by the leaders of  the islamic "holy land" ----saudi arabi and awarded the retirement of a 
PRINCE-------he was famous for eating some of his torture victims

to what atrocities were you referring?     the current mess in Syria ?------be patient---
there will be more in  other places   ----maybe even Turkey

DUTCH?      one of my teachers in high school-----was of dutch background----
he used to say    'IF YOU'RE   NOT DUTCH,,    YOU'RE NOT MUCH"


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## MJB12741 (Dec 27, 2013)

So true.  The Syrian massacre crises has now spread into Lebanon as well.  Muslims have their ways of settling disagreements among themselves.  Let us all join together & pray for the innocent children who are victims of their own people.  




irosie91 said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Dec 27, 2013)

Here is the latest on this abominable tragedy.


World must help Lebanon handle Syrian refugee flood: UNICEF | Reuters


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## MJB12741 (Dec 28, 2013)

Is it any wonder why Christians are united for Israel when we consider what Israel's enemies are doing?





MJB12741 said:


> Here is the latest on this abominable tragedy.
> 
> 
> World must help Lebanon handle Syrian refugee flood: UNICEF | Reuters


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## aris2chat (Dec 28, 2013)

It was not just palestinians killing christians.
Palestinians did trigger the war with their drive by shooting at people coming out of a  church killing four people.
They massacred christians in several villages.
They kidnapped and tortured christian children
The occupied homes and whole buildings around the park that became their camps.
Dealing in drugs, weapons, ransom, assassinations, terrorist training, money laundering, bank robbery an intimidation is just a part of life for them.  Unfortunately they don't make themselves welcome or respectful guests in any country.  Jordan through a lot of the out an withdrew citizenship for most of them.  Syria and Iraq used them but kept an iron grip on their movement and activities.
For many Egyptians they are swine and their occupation of gaza was brutal.
They have long since over stayed their welcome.  Most remained in camps because the host did not want them integrating and influencing the citizens into their activities. 
Camps were arab ghettos, there but separate.  Thought building was limited the palestinians still built high rise apartments, homes and stores both inside and around the edges outside the perimeter.  Beggars and disabled (some real some acted).  Mother hold their child pleading at car windows.  But offer them a job, for the day or longer, at you risk getting spat at.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 28, 2013)

No one who knows anything of Middle East history can deny the Arab countries brutal treatment of their Palestinians.  And now to make matters even worse for the Palestinians, Israel makes peace offerings to them, builds a security fence & concedes land to the Palestinians so they remain in Israel instead of helping to free the Palestianins back to their indigenous homelands.  Is it any wonder why the Palestinians hate Israel when you consider their Palestinian mentality?




aris2chat said:


> It was not just palestinians killing christians.
> Palestinians did trigger the war with their drive by shooting at people coming out of a  church killing four people.
> They massacred christians in several villages.
> They kidnapped and tortured christian children
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Dec 29, 2013)

Instead of dedicating themselves to the destruction of Israel, Palestinians should strive for peace, build their own infrastructure & fend for themselves instead of leaching off of Israel to provide for their needs.


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## TannieLve (Dec 29, 2013)

*Well, not much has changed I see, MJB. You're still quoting your infamous, "Let there be Peace already"  ... mantra.....


Lordy loo .....*


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## Hossfly (Dec 29, 2013)

TannieLve said:


> *Well, not much has changed I see, MJB. You're still quoting your infamous, "Let there be Peace already"  ... mantra.....
> 
> 
> Lordy loo .....*


Well shet my mouf if it ain't ol' Tanniepoo! Bout time, Injun. Welcome to the board.


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## Bloodrock44 (Dec 29, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> TannieLve said:
> 
> 
> > *Well, not much has changed I see, MJB. You're still quoting your infamous, "Let there be Peace already"  ... mantra.....
> ...



There goes the neighborhood.


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## Hossfly (Dec 29, 2013)

Bloodrock44 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > TannieLve said:
> ...


But she's a Christian united for Israel now. Be nice.


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## Bloodrock44 (Dec 29, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



If that's true I can take credit.


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## MJB12741 (Dec 29, 2013)

Well well, lookie here.  It must be love.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





TannieLve said:


> *Well, not much has changed I see, MJB. You're still quoting your infamous, "Let there be Peace already"  ... mantra.....
> 
> 
> Lordy loo .....*


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## MJB12741 (Dec 30, 2013)

So, what are your thoughts on Christians United For Israel?




Bloodrock44 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Bloodrock44 said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Dec 30, 2013)

Even South African Christians rally for Israel.  

Bridges for Peace » Publications » Dispatch from Jerusalem » October 2012 · Vol. 37 No. 5 » South African Christians Stand Up for Israel


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