# "They Made Them Speak English Only at Home"



## Unkotare

In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts. 

Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?


----------



## The Irish Ram

Yeah, Germans.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

There are far too many hateful bigots who believe such rot.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

The Irish Ram said:


> Yeah, Germans.


And this would be one of those hateful bigots.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Shut up.

Oh look!!  A Germany full of bigots, protesting the flood of immigrants, and the violence that accompanies them:






They get it, you don't.  Lovely night tonight in NY, NJ. MN. and DC, don't ya think? 
Get it yet?


----------



## Vastator

There are far too many ignorant morons who can't recognize what they see before thier very eyes.


----------



## Weatherman2020

I thought this was a thread about my great grandparents.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Yeah, Germans.



Yeah Germans what?


----------



## Unkotare

Vastator said:


> There are far too many ignorant morons who can't recognize what they see before thier very eyes.



_You_ can at least _try_ to improve.


----------



## Vastator

Germans sind wutend.


----------



## Unkotare

So, anyway, the thread is about outdated, mistaken notions about how immigrant children acquire English, and what role the family dynamic plays in this process.


----------



## Vastator

Unkotare said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are far too many ignorant morons who can't recognize what they see before thier very eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _You_ can at least _try_ to improve.
Click to expand...


----------



## The Irish Ram

Unkotare said:


> So, anyway, the thread is about outdated, mistaken notions about how immigrant children acquire English, and what role the family dynamic plays in this process.



How incredibly ignorant.  Every one of those kids could speak their parent's language, but spoke English in the home so their parents could learn the language of their new homeland.  They wanted to be considered Americans.  English is our language.  Anybody living here should learn to speak it.  Those parents must have done something right.  Their children became the greatest generation to live on this earth.

Your method produces whiny, fragile little cream puffs that need safey rooms to prevent being offended.  Yeah,  that dynamic is working out great.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, anyway, the thread is about outdated, mistaken notions about how immigrant children acquire English, and what role the family dynamic plays in this process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How incredibly ignorant.  Every one of those kids could speak their parent's language, but spoke English in the home so their parents could learn the language of their new homeland. .....
Click to expand...



You are mistaken in several ways.


----------



## The Irish Ram

No, I am not.  Greatest generation vs cream puffs.  Those parents raised the greatest generation, you raised snowflakes with your, "I have the right to never be offended.  I saw chalk, quick, get the smelling salts" generation. Your marshmallows can't hold a candle to the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here, which  for some stupid reason you consider cruel.   Your kids don't even know how to write.  
Thank God for the generation that saved the world from Hitler.  Your generation would have flown him here and pinned medals on his chest for the fundamental change he was bringing to Europe....  

Why the need to start a new thread, instead of finishing the one you referenced in this thread?  Now you have 2 threads that you can't win.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ...... you raised snowflakes with your, "I have the right to never be offended.  I saw chalk, quick, get the smelling salts" generation. .....




??????????????????


What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......



They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.


----------



## The Irish Ram

They sure as hell did.  My father grew up with those kids.  I grew up with their grandkids.  I knew those very people we are discussing very well.  One of those children whose parents insisted he speak English became our Russian language teacher in high school.  Bi lingual, war hero, college honor grad, whose parents never took a dime in Gov. assistance.  They got it right.  You don't know what you are talking about. Just like you didn't get, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, or Alexander Graham Bell. You are out of your league  here.    Quit while you are ahead.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> They sure as hell did.  .....




Nope. Some few anomalous cases aside, the fairy tale of "you shall not speak Italian in this house!" from parents who spoke only Italian themselves (for example) did not - of course - happen. The inevitable success of the children or second generation in acquiring English became, over time, part of a family myth clung to by generations far removed. Young children who came here/come here eventually and inevitably learned English. The parents, depending on their age, circumstances, and prior education will eventually acquire English to an extent, but not often full fluency. If the family arrives with grandparents, they usually say "screw it" and rely on their grandchildren for interpretation. By a second generation, fluency is almost always achieved (then as now), and by the third most speak English only at home as a matter of course.


----------



## Unkotare

Not only is "Thou shalt speak English only at home, even though we don't speak English ourselves!" a myth, research has proven that attempts at transitioning from the home language to English-only before the child has achieved significant acquisition of the L1 actually hinders the child's acquisition of English, hampering them throughout their education. 

It's all much ado about nothing anyway, as the much more common concern for immigrant parents is that their (eventual) teenagers don't want to talk to them at home in the family's heritage language. Now as then.


----------



## The Irish Ram

How stupid to try to convince someone who grew up in the environment that they are wrong.    If your parents are from Italy, and speak Italian only,  their child will also be able to speak Italian.  It is how the children know what their parents are saying.

It is how Mr. Mahalic was able to teach his classes Russian.  He parents spoke to him in Russian.  He learned English in school and spoke it at home.  It is how his parents learned English.   What's wrong with you?


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> How stupid to try to convince someone who grew up in the environment that they are wrong.   ....



You didn't say you "grew up in the environment," but that you knew people who did. Did you share a house with the people in your myth?


----------



## The Irish Ram

I most certainly DID say I grew up in that environment.  My father grew up with those immigrant's children, and I with their grandchildren.  Ate dinner many many times at Bubba/Bubja/Bubbie's table.  Same table my Dad ate at with their kids.  Immigrants came to this valley to work in the steel mills. Some of the best food on earth here. And people.
So, know it all:
Tell me about Mrs. Melilo's spaghetti, and how she learned English and how to write.  Tell me about the Urich family, and Bobby Urich's mom's kapusta rolls.  Who taught Utsel how to speak English?   One of us knows the answer to those questions because one of grew up in that environment.  And one has no idea what they are talking about.

Aunt Annie Urich became a millionaire selling cabbage rolls to the power plant nearby.  I grew up with her kids.  My mom grew up with her.   She was one of 13 children.  Their parents immigrated.  They spoke no English.  The kids taught them.  Annie had to wash the kitchen ceiling every sat. morning before she and my mom could go out and play. Fast forward to the next generation and  Bobby  took his piano lesson right after me.  And we always went to midnight mass and then to Aunt Aggie's for cabbage rolls. (And what pretty grand children those immigrants had!)





But you tell me, in all your wisdom, what language his studdabubba spoke...

You're not going to win this,  hulye < (then spit on the floor like Bubba Crouch used to do.)


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> I most certainly DID say I grew up in that environment. ....





The family adopted you? You lived with them 24/7? Let the myth go.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> They sure as hell did.  .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Some few anomalous cases aside, the fairy tale of "you shall not speak Italian in this house!" from parents who spoke only Italian themselves (for example) did not - of course - happen. The inevitable success of the children or second generation in acquiring English became, over time, part of a family myth clung to by generations far removed. Young children who came here/come here eventually and inevitably learned English. The parents, depending on their age, circumstances, and prior education will eventually acquire English to an extent, but not often full fluency. If the family arrives with grandparents, they usually say "screw it" and rely on their grandchildren for interpretation. By a second generation, fluency is almost always achieved (then as now), and by the third most speak English only at home as a matter of course.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Not only is "Thou shalt speak English only at home, even though we don't speak English ourselves!" a myth, research has proven that attempts at transitioning from the home language to English-only before the child has achieved significant acquisition of the L1 actually hinders the child's acquisition of English, hampering them throughout their education.
> 
> It's all much ado about nothing anyway, as the much more common concern for immigrant parents is that their (eventual) teenagers don't want to talk to them at home in the family's heritage language. Now as then.


.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?


.


----------



## The Irish Ram

You know you've lost and are just flailing now, so give it up.   You don't know your ass from page 8 about immigrants, and I was raised with them, so......


----------



## Two Thumbs

Unkotare said:


> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?


my Great Grandfather did it for his kids.

he, his wife and the oldest 3 didn't speak English, so to adapt, he insisted that everyone learn and speak it.

My Dad never heard any of them speak anything else.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ..... I was raised with them, so......






So you were adopted by them? You did live with them 24/7? You haven't answered clearly.


----------



## Unkotare

Two Thumbs said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> my Great Grandfather did it for his kids.
> 
> he, his wife and the oldest 3 didn't speak English, so to adapt, he insisted that everyone learn and speak it.
> 
> ....
Click to expand...


Read the OP and thread title carefully.


----------



## bodecea

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.
Click to expand...

Agreed...adult immigrants speaking homeland language...little English...2nd gen kids speak English at school and in the street...but aren't really fluent in either language...3rd Gen English only...may not be able to communicate well with grandparents.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ... You don't know your ass from page 8 about immigrants.........




It's not your fault that you don't know how ridiculous what you just posted is.


----------



## Unkotare

bodecea said:


> ...2nd gen kids speak English at school and in the street...but aren't really fluent in either language........




2nd generation usually refers to the children born in the US of 1st generation immigrant parents. In that case, the kids will become fluent in English. If the children were born abroad, they will likely be fluent in the family heritage and achieve a high degree of English acquisition (depending on circumstances).


----------



## MaryL

The Irish Ram said:


> Yeah, Germans.





Unkotare said:


> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?


Funny, English is a Germanic language. That being said, 40 years ago I never heard ANY foreign language, ever. It's funny,  now its SPANISH this, SPANISH that. Like it always was there. It wasn't. When people that speak Spanish now, it  is more like form of disrespect. They where never  part of American culture. And the fact we ALL are posting in English, that says it all.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> When people that speak Spanish now, it  is more like form of disrespect. .......





Here we go again with the ridiculous bullshit....


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> When people that speak Spanish now, it  is more like form of disrespect. .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again with the ridiculous bullshit....
Click to expand...

No we aren't


----------



## MaryL

Que?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ..... Like it always was there. It wasn't. ......





MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> When people that speak Spanish now, it  is more like form of disrespect. .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again with the ridiculous bullshit....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we aren't
Click to expand...




Very much so. There have been many languages spoken in the US for our entire history, and before.

Ridiculous is imagining some fantasy past where no one in the US spoke Spanish just because some dizzy broad hates Mexican people.

Disrespect is thinking its anybody's fucking business what language people are speaking when not speaking to you, or what language they speak in their own home, or how private businesses choose to cater to their customers, etc.


----------



## MaryL

Unko, you think it's a bad  thing to want everyone to be able to communicate with each other?  Why? I had to help a Hispanic  gal running away from her abusive boyfriend, he would have killed us both. There is sort of a international language there you wouldn't understand. But it might have made things a little easier if she spoke freeinkin ENGLISH!


----------



## eflatminor

Unkotare said:


> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?



My mother's great grandmother thought it was a good idea.  

What am I missing?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unko, you think it's a bad  thing to want everyone to be able to communicate with each other?  ..!




Leaving aside the fact you immediately contradict yourself, did I say what you are claiming I said?


----------



## Unkotare

eflatminor said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother's great grandmother thought it was a good idea.
> ....
Click to expand...


Probably not.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... There is sort of a international language there you wouldn't understand. ...




It is extremely unlikely there is _anything_ about language you understand better than I.


----------



## The Irish Ram

bodecea said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed...adult immigrants speaking homeland language...little English...2nd gen kids speak English at school and in the street...but aren't really fluent in either language...3rd Gen English only...may not be able to communicate well with grandparents.
Click to expand...


Our Russian teacher was born here to 2 people that came from Russia.  He spoke English as well as any body else in town. Well enough to teach Russian< that he knew very well, in our high school.  None of the 1st. generation children of the immigrants in the valley even had an accent.  Their parents did have accents but were able to speak English and read it and write it.  They were taught here, by their children speaking it in the home.  THAT is why the parents wanted them to speak English at home.  Not as some form of punishment as you have twisted it.    Those are the immigrants of old.
The illegals of today are not the same.  The immigrants of old were very proud to become legal citizens.  That is not what is crossing our border today.  You have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unko, you think it's a bad  thing to want everyone to be able to communicate with each other?  ..!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leaving aside the fact you immediately contradict yourself, did I say what you are claiming I said?
Click to expand...

So WHAT are you saying, lets un-muddy the water here. Disambiguate the ambiguity.  All those illegals that wont  learn English and flaunt it in our faces and that isn't disrespectful? Like a little kid that  refuses to be potty trained and just poops where ever he wants? Spanish speakers are like THAT.  They  AREN'T 3 YEAR OLDS. .Hispanics can learn English . Get over it and grow up. Please.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... There is sort of a international language there you wouldn't understand. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is extremely unlikely there is _anything_ about language you understand better than I.
Click to expand...


You had to have others make the correlation between Edison and light, Ford and automobiles, and Graham and phones, but your going to school me?  LOL.  I don't think so...


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ....
> 
> Our Russian teacher was born here to 2 people that came from Russia.  He spoke English as well as any body else in town. ....




Of course, he was born and raised in the US. What would you expect?


----------



## The Irish Ram

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... You don't know your ass from page 8 about immigrants.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not your fault that you don't know how ridiculous what you just posted is.
Click to expand...


Ridiculous is you trying to tell me how I grew up.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ...They were taught here, by their children speaking it in the home.  .....




To a very small extent. Adult language input comes from many sources when one lives in a given language environment.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... You don't know your ass from page 8 about immigrants.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not your fault that you don't know how ridiculous what you just posted is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ridiculous is you trying to tell me how I grew up.
Click to expand...



"Tell you"? I asked you a question twice and you have refused to answer.


----------



## MaryL

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... There is sort of a international language there you wouldn't understand. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is extremely unlikely there is _anything_ about language you understand better than I.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You had to have others make the correlation between Edison and light, Ford and automobiles, and Graham and phones, but your going to school me?  LOL.  I don't think so...
Click to expand...

What  language did your great grand parents speak before they immigrated here?  But you still  post in English on this board, because you want to communicate here. My take away from Spanish only speakers, disrespect, and they don't care what you or I have to say in English . They are so disrespectful, and  you think THEY care what YOU think?  They are like QUE?  Spanish is a new language here in the US. I will be damned if I learn Spanish just to enable  illegal aliens. Not happening.


----------



## bodecea

MaryL said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... There is sort of a international language there you wouldn't understand. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is extremely unlikely there is _anything_ about language you understand better than I.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You had to have others make the correlation between Edison and light, Ford and automobiles, and Graham and phones, but your going to school me?  LOL.  I don't think so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What  language did your great grand parents speak before they immigrated here?  But you still  post in English on this board, because you want to communicate here. My take away from Spanish only speakers, disrespect, and they don't care what you or I have to say in English . They are so disrespectful, and  you think THEY care what YOU think?  They are like QUE?  Spanish is a new language here in the US. I will be damned if I learn Spanish just to enable  illegal aliens. Not happening.
Click to expand...

What Spanish speakers are you referring to?   Immigrants? 1st gen? 2nd gen?


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ... THAT is why the parents wanted them to speak English at home.  .....




What the parents wanted very likely had little to do with it. The couple undoubtedly spoke to each other in Russian. The children acquired English from living in the US and attending school. As they get older, many such children begin to resist the family's heritage language when they reach an age of self-consciousness about what they see as 'fitting in' with their native-born peers. As young adults, many will regret what they have lost but profit from what they have gained.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Those are the immigrants of old.
> The illegals of today are not the same.  ....



Are you claiming that all immigrants today are illegals?


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ... The immigrants of old were very proud to become legal citizens.  ....




Just like immigrants today.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ... You have no idea what you are talking about.




I know very well what I'm talking about.


----------



## MaryL

There is something broken about our culture if we have to enable  non English speaking foreigners, and their religion that would destroy  our culture.  Why are we doing this? Unko wants to enable these invaders, why?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> .....  All those illegals that wont  learn English and flaunt it in our faces and that isn't disrespectful?......




This is what comes from seeing yourself as a poor little victim_ all the time_. Where an individual may be in the process of acquiring English has nothing to do with oh-so-important *you*. Really.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... Like it always was there. It wasn't. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> When people that speak Spanish now, it  is more like form of disrespect. .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here we go again with the ridiculous bullshit....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No we aren't
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very much so. There have been many languages spoken in the US for our entire history, and before.
> 
> Ridiculous is imagining some fantasy past where no one in the US spoke Spanish just because some dizzy broad hates Mexican people.
> 
> Disrespect is thinking its anybody's fucking business what language people are speaking when not speaking to you, or what language they speak in their own home, or how private businesses choose to cater to their customers, etc.
Click to expand...


Unk, You know that game where you whisper in someone's ear and pass it on down the row to see what actually comes out at the end?  You do that to people's posts.  By the time you mangle them there is no resemblance to what the person actually said.  You do it because you can't come up with a viable response,  so you lean the post toward some defect you think the poster has.   You're wasting my time.  
Прощай


----------



## MaryL

Immigrants come here legally, and are aware they must learn English. Why does that threaten some of you?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> .Hispanics can learn English .......





And most Latino immigrants do learn English, better than you could ever learn another language. Don't feel too bad.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... There is sort of a international language there you wouldn't understand. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is extremely unlikely there is _anything_ about language you understand better than I.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You had to have others make the correlation between Edison and light, Ford and automobiles, and Graham and phones...
Click to expand...



I did? When was that?


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> your going to school me? .....




About language acquisition? Yes, if I thought you had any hope of learning.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Spanish is a new language here in the US.....




Completely false.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....  All those illegals that wont  learn English and flaunt it in our faces and that isn't disrespectful?......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what comes from seeing yourself as a poor little victim_ all the time_. Where an individual may be in the process of acquiring English has nothing to do with oh-so-important *you*. Really.
Click to expand...


Like I just said.  ^
That post never mentions the poster, but you do.  
It makes_* you: *_
vlákas


----------



## MaryL

Funny how some peeps are so picky about, stuff like  grammar, spelling and all that. Funny how they overlook little things  like  ILLEGALS violating numerous immigration laws, let alone THEIR  failure  adopt the language of the culture they are "immigrating" to. Picky pick picky.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> your going to school me? .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About language acquisition? Yes, if I thought you had any hope of learning.
Click to expand...

As soon as you learn about Edison, Ford, and Bell.....


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> .... You're wasting my time. ...




You could answer the question I've asked twice.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> ...
> As soon as you learn about Edison, Ford, and Bell.....




All set. Next?


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....  All those illegals that wont  learn English and flaunt it in our faces and that isn't disrespectful?......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what comes from seeing yourself as a poor little victim_ all the time_. Where an individual may be in the process of acquiring English has nothing to do with oh-so-important *you*. Really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I just said.  ^
> That post never mentions the poster....
Click to expand...



I quoted the poster to whom I was responding. Is this a difficult concept for you?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....  All those illegals that wont  learn English and flaunt it in our faces and that isn't disrespectful?......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what comes from seeing yourself as a poor little victim_ all the time_. Where an individual may be in the process of acquiring English has nothing to do with oh-so-important *you*. Really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I just said.  ^
> That post never mentions the poster....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I quoted the poster to whom I was responding. Is this a difficult concept for you?
Click to expand...

We have such STRICT criteria WHO can do what, that's what immigration law is about, ironic as hell. Criticize spelling and grammar and dictate terms as to whom can reply to your posts? But people that sneak in over the border and violate various laws, ignore the dominate culture, no problem with you? I don't think our Spanish only sneaks care about misspellings or bad grammar. Do you?


----------



## MaryL

Funny that, unko. Spanish speakers don't even care what YOU say, either. And being that illegal aliens won't learn English, they won't understand a single word you post. Because that's what being multicultural and multilingual  means. Babble babel babel. In your own country, even. Foreigners dictating what is good because it suits THEM, got to love it.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> .... ignore the dominate culture....




Meaning what?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... Spanish only sneaks.....




What the hell is that?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ..... Spanish speakers don't even care what YOU say, either. .....




Which Spanish speakers?


----------



## MaryL

Your outrage is so hollow, almost sounds like you are outside the issue. If I have to spell this out for you one MORE time...Who the hell  WERE we talking about here? Grow a brain, context . CONTEXT.  Ancient Egyptians?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ....And being that illegal aliens won't learn English.....




That's not true.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....And being that illegal aliens won't learn English.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not true.
Click to expand...

Yes it is.


----------



## MaryL

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....And being that illegal aliens won't learn English.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is.
Click to expand...

So many Walmart shoppers  bumbling around speaking Spanish pretending they are still in Mexico. Mexicans and their handlers are sooo good at ignoring English and Americans, probably why we Americans are  so antagonized and  angry at "Hispanic" immigrants, think?


----------



## MaryL

That might be a slight possibility,  all those so called "immigrants" that just speak Spanish pretend they are still in Mexico, that sort of bullshit pisses  the rest of us off. Plenty of immigrants from Europe learned English and acclimated, they even payed lawyers and various fees to get in here, too. It is amazing, isn't it? Mexicans can't DO THAT? WHY NOT? Why are we enabling Hispanic illegals?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....And being that illegal aliens won't learn English.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So many Walmart shoppers  bumbling around speaking Spanish pretending they are still in Mexico. Mexicans and their handlers are sooo good at ignoring English and Americans, probably why we Americans are  so antagonized and  angry at "Hispanic" immigrants, think?
Click to expand...



There we go. Always comes back to your hatred of Mexicans.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....And being that illegal aliens won't learn English.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So many Walmart shoppers  bumbling around ...
Click to expand...



"Bumbling"? What do you mean?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ...
> So many Walmart shoppers ....... speaking Spanish pretending they are still in Mexico. .....





Are these shoppers speaking to you? If not, what the hell business is it of yours?

How does speaking Spanish mean "pretending they are still in Mexico"? ???  You do know that Mexico is not the world's only Spanish-speaking country, right?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... we Americans are  so antagonized and  angry at "Hispanic" immigrants,





Are you "pretending" to speak for all Americans now? 


Do you realize that lots of Americans speak Spanish, and may even dare to do so in your exulted presence?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... Plenty of immigrants from Europe learned English and acclimated, they even payed lawyers and various fees to get in here, too......




And lots of immigrants from all over the world are doing the same today.


----------



## eflatminor

Unkotare said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother's great grandmother thought it was a good idea.
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.
Click to expand...


Again, I'm not following.  I assure you it was the case that when my mother's family arrived in America no so long ago, the matriarch decided everyone would assimilate by not speaking German and by joining the local Episcopalian church despite it not being the religion on which they were raised.  I heard this directly from the people that where there.  

Why are you not believing this?


----------



## Unkotare

eflatminor said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother's great grandmother thought it was a good idea.
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I'm not following.  I assure you it was the case that when my mother's family arrived in America no so long ago, the matriarch decided everyone would assimilate by not speaking German and by joining the local Episcopalian church despite it not being the religion on which they were raised.  I heard this directly from the people that where there.
> 
> Why are you not believing this?
Click to expand...




Because it's a myth.


----------



## Meathead

eflatminor said:


> Again, I'm not following.  I assure you it was the case that when my mother's family arrived in America no so long ago, the matriarch decided everyone would assimilate by not speaking German and by joining the local Episcopalian church despite it not being the religion on which they were raised.  I heard this directly from the people that where there.
> 
> Why are you not believing this?


There were those who sought assimilation and invested heavily in their families and worked for success to achieve the American Dream. The welfare state ushered in by LBJ's Great Society brought in another "class" of immigrants who figured there was free stuff to be had that their own countries could not offer.

These Johnny-Come-Latelys did not immigrate with the intention of quick assimilation into American society for that very obvious reason. A self-righteous prick like Unk will invariably rage at the thought, but that does not make it any less true.


----------



## Unkotare

Meathead said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I'm not following.  I assure you it was the case that when my mother's family arrived in America no so long ago, the matriarch decided everyone would assimilate by not speaking German and by joining the local Episcopalian church despite it not being the religion on which they were raised.  I heard this directly from the people that where there.
> 
> Why are you not believing this?
> 
> 
> 
> There were those who sought assimilation and invested heavily in their families and worked for success to achieve the American Dream. .....
Click to expand...




Just like today.


----------



## eflatminor

Unkotare said:


> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother's great grandmother thought it was a good idea.
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I'm not following.  I assure you it was the case that when my mother's family arrived in America no so long ago, the matriarch decided everyone would assimilate by not speaking German and by joining the local Episcopalian church despite it not being the religion on which they were raised.  I heard this directly from the people that where there.
> 
> Why are you not believing this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's a myth.
Click to expand...


Never pegged you for one of those that believes he knows what's in the hearts and minds of others...like Progressives tend to think. You're calling me and my family liars with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.  Also a tactic of social justice warriors and other meddlers.  That's some company you're keeping.

I can only surmise YOU are the liar.  Never thought I'd put you on ignore, but there's little else to do with lying trolls.  Just can't believe you'd stoop to such a level.  Guess I pegged you incorrectly.  Sad.


----------



## Jarlaxle

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> They sure as hell did.  .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Some few anomalous cases aside, the fairy tale of "you shall not speak Italian in this house!" from parents who spoke only Italian themselves (for example) did not - of course - happen. The inevitable success of the children or second generation in acquiring English became, over time, part of a family myth clung to by generations far removed. Young children who came here/come here eventually and inevitably learned English. The parents, depending on their age, circumstances, and prior education will eventually acquire English to an extent, but not often full fluency. If the family arrives with grandparents, they usually say "screw it" and rely on their grandchildren for interpretation. By a second generation, fluency is almost always achieved (then as now), and by the third most speak English only at home as a matter of course.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.  My mother was FORBIDDEN to learn Portuguese. Her father grew up with English, her grandparents learned English.


----------



## Jarlaxle

bodecea said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed...adult immigrants speaking homeland language...little English...2nd gen kids speak English at school and in the street...but aren't really fluent in either language...3rd Gen English only...may not be able to communicate well with grandparents.
Click to expand...

My immigrant wife speaks fluent English, mostly notable for NOT having any New England accent.  Her father speake equally-fluent English, though with a notable accent. Her best friend immigrated as an adult and speaks fluent, slightly-accented English.  Care to jam your OTHER foot in your mouth?


----------



## Unkotare

Jarlaxle said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the ones whose parents had them speak English when they got here......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't. That's a myth. The process of language acquisition and generational family dynamic throughout assimilation is essentially the same today as it has always been.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed...adult immigrants speaking homeland language...little English...2nd gen kids speak English at school and in the street...but aren't really fluent in either language...3rd Gen English only...may not be able to communicate well with grandparents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My immigrant wife speaks fluent English, mostly notable for NOT having any New England accent.  Her father speake equally-fluent English, though with a notable accent. Her best friend immigrated as an adult and speaks fluent, slightly-accented English.  Care to jam your OTHER foot in your mouth?
Click to expand...





None of that has anything to do with the topic.


----------



## Unkotare

Jarlaxle said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> They sure as hell did.  .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Some few anomalous cases aside, the fairy tale of "you shall not speak Italian in this house!" from parents who spoke only Italian themselves (for example) did not - of course - happen. The inevitable success of the children or second generation in acquiring English became, over time, part of a family myth clung to by generations far removed. Young children who came here/come here eventually and inevitably learned English. The parents, depending on their age, circumstances, and prior education will eventually acquire English to an extent, but not often full fluency. If the family arrives with grandparents, they usually say "screw it" and rely on their grandchildren for interpretation. By a second generation, fluency is almost always achieved (then as now), and by the third most speak English only at home as a matter of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit.  My mother was FORBIDDEN to learn Portuguese. .....
Click to expand...


That's stupid, but also has nothing to do with the topic.


----------



## Unkotare

eflatminor said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eflatminor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> In another thread someone actually made this (false) claim in one of those "immigrants used to be good, but now they scare me" posts.
> 
> Are there still people out there who even think such an approach would be a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mother's great grandmother thought it was a good idea.
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I'm not following.  I assure you it was the case that when my mother's family arrived in America no so long ago, the matriarch decided everyone would assimilate by not speaking German and by joining the local Episcopalian church despite it not being the religion on which they were raised.  I heard this directly from the people that where there.
> 
> Why are you not believing this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's a myth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never pegged you for one of those that believes he knows what's in the hearts and minds of others...like Progressives tend to think. You're calling me and my family liars with absolutely no evidence whatsoever.  Also a tactic of social justice warriors and other meddlers.  That's some company you're keeping.
> 
> I can only surmise YOU are the liar.  Never thought I'd put you on ignore, but there's little else to do with lying trolls.  Just can't believe you'd stoop to such a level.  Guess I pegged you incorrectly.  Sad.
Click to expand...





You seem to have something incorrect.


----------



## Unkotare

Everyone knows how reliable " back in my day"   stories are. Now take it back two or three generations and.....


----------



## The Irish Ram

Experience is the best teacher.  If you don't know what happened back in the day, you are the least qualified to explain it.  You're out of your league here pup. 
You don't know shit from Shinola.
^ google it. lol.


----------



## Unkotare

If two people are not native or highly fluent English speakers but speak the same L1, the chances of them never speaking their L1 to each other in their own home is extremely unlikely. 

If those two people have a child and neglect the L1 in their raising of the child throughout the critical period, that child may eventually abandon the family heritage language for affective reasons. However, if that child is raised in the environment of the parents L1 (which will likely be the case given the circumstances outlined above), in early childhood but transitioned to English (the L2 at that point) before establishing a base level of literacy in the L1, it may impede the child's English acquisition upon enrolling in formal schooling.


----------



## Unkotare

And if a student arrives in the US after an L1 is firmly established but literacy is not, behavior as in these family myths could really interfere with English acquisition, depending on circumstances.


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Experience is the best teacher.  If you don't know what happened back in the day, you are the least qualified to explain it.  You're out of your league here pup.
> You don't know shit from Shinola.
> ^ google it. lol.




Actually, I know it very well.


----------



## Arianrhod

MaryL said:


> ....And being that illegal aliens won't learn English.....



"Being that"? 

Ironic, given the context.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Unkotare said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> Experience is the best teacher.  If you don't know what happened back in the day, you are the least qualified to explain it.  You're out of your league here pup.
> You don't know shit from Shinola.
> ^ google it. lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I know it very well.
Click to expand...


And I doubt it very much.  We're done here. Have a good one..


----------



## Unkotare

The Irish Ram said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> Experience is the best teacher.  If you don't know what happened back in the day, you are the least qualified to explain it.  You're out of your league here pup.
> You don't know shit from Shinola.
> ^ google it. lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I know it very well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I doubt it very much.  ...
Click to expand...



Your doubts are misleading you.


----------

