# Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education?



## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mbJhjCbwo8]Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? - YouTube[/ame]

I am beyond tired of their shit.


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## Truthmatters (Aug 15, 2011)

uneducated people have to work for less money


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

They want to end it because it produces imbeciles like you and Truthmatters, idiot.


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

OMG I think TruthMatters and BDPOOP ( no not a spelling error in her name ) does google all day just to post threads!!


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## theHawk (Aug 15, 2011)

Why should government be envolved in education?

We have "separation of church and state", yet churches thrive.

We should have a separation of schools and state for the same reason.  Government should not be allowed to be in a position control our children and our education.  Education should be free of government corruption and inefficiency.


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## Truthmatters (Aug 15, 2011)

education is what helped make this country great.

killing education will make us a third world country


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## California Girl (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



People like you will make us a third world country. That is the goal of 'wealth redistribution'.


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## peach174 (Aug 15, 2011)

Because they want our children to be well educated and not indoctrinated to social ideology.
We want our children to know how to spell and to read.


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## WillowTree (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



Education hasn't done you any good. It's money pissed away.


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## Full-Auto (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sYH6npvlIo&feature=player_detailpage]Judge Judy Here&#39;s Who We Support With Our Tax Money - YouTube[/ame]

Another fine accomplishment from the department of education


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?


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## Dr.House (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?



No...

Are we going to see less of you when high school starts?


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?



I did.  My brother and sister-in-law teach in that area....I'm asking their opinion on this issue.


But it is indeed MORE in the best interest of an informed electorate to have public education.   I can understand Conservatives working against that.


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## Leweman (Aug 15, 2011)

Why does the public education system suck so bad?


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## California Girl (Aug 15, 2011)

Full-Auto said:


> Truthmatters said:
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I really wish I hadn't watched that. How absolutely depressing. What the fuck are we creating? 

I am gonna have to re-evaluate my support for public education.


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## Two Thumbs (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?



an 11 minut pile of shit from a bunch of liberals crying about the Koch brothers?

why the fuck would anyone do that?


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

Leweman said:


> Why does the public education system suck so bad?



It's run by government and staffed by union employees. 

How could anything that fucked-up function efficiently.


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## Trajan (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? - YouTube
> 
> I am beyond tired of their shit.



then stop reading this stupidity ( and posting it too, unless you have an opinion you'd like to discuss perhaps?)


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## Two Thumbs (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> BDBoop said:
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Being intentionally dim or hitting of boop? 

we just want the Fed back out of education.  We were ranked top 5 before them and now ~ 18th in the world.


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

What public school are Obama's children going to ?


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

We need highly educated young people to graduate and take on all those shovel-ready jobs created by our fearless leader.


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

theHawk said:


> Why should government be envolved in education?
> 
> We have "separation of church and state", yet churches thrive.
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> We should have a separation of schools and state for the same reason.  Government should not be allowed to be in a position control our children and our education.  Education should be free of government corruption and inefficiency.



Mainly because it insures only wealthy people get an education.

Silly, I know, but they don't seem to want to "Spread the wealth" for some odd reason.

And it's well known that educated people are generally productive people.

So..it seems a good idea to use government funds to make sure that poor people don't stay that way..and eventually wind up paying taxes.

Seems like a good investment..too.


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## California Girl (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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Nice theory. Apparently, it's not working out like that.


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## Two Thumbs (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


> theHawk said:
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What bullshit.

When was the last time only wealthy people got to go to school?

Besides, the states were doing a FAR bette job before central planning showed up.


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watch" waiting for superman" and see how ( at least Tenure teachers act)  Sometimes you can get more of an education by having your kids learn on an online school!!


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## Patrick2 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


> theHawk said:
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That government should pay for poor kids to get educated doesn't imply a government school system.  The government school system has particularly failed poor and minorities.  The system needs to be privatized, with government involvement limited to providing vouchers for those not able to pay.


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

Lovebears65 said:


> OMG I think TruthMatters and BDPOOP ( no not a spelling error in her name ) does google all day just to post threads!!



God, you guys are always good for a laugh. I continue to educate myself and remain aware, and you (speaking out your ignorant ass, as always) fault me for it.

Too funny.


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


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You're kidding.

This country had no real middle class for most of it's existence. It's only the last seven or so decades where there has been a strong and vibrant middle class.

Before that we look like any tin horn third world country. We had a small band of kazillionaires and an ocean of poor people. I can remember back when poor meant going without food for a week, no electricity from time to time. and wearing "holely" clothing everyday. That was my childhood. And I am sure it was worse for people older then me.


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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It hasn't "failed" anyone.

America's been failing the education system.


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Lovebears65 said:
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You post drivel from your trailer 24/7 on these boards. 

You come across as dense / a product of public schools. 

Get back to your box of Ding-Dongs and Mountain Dew.

Don't you have a scale to tip?


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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I remember the same - maybe not quite to the same degree, but I remember mom claiming she wasn't hungry, or she already ate. I had to be much older before I knew she was lying - there wasn't enough to feed all three of us, so she did without.


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

Lovebears65 said:


> Just watch" waiting for superman" and see how ( at least Tenure teachers act)  Sometimes you can get more of an education by having your kids learn on an online school!!



School is not just for "book" learning. It's for gaining socialization skills. It's for learning how to adhere to a daily schedule.

Both things are key in the work place.


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## Two Thumbs (Aug 15, 2011)

Lovebears65 said:


> Just watch" waiting for superman" and see how ( at least Tenure teachers act)  Sometimes you can get more of an education by having your kids learn on an online school!!



PA offers online K-12 now.

I'd opt for it except I don't want by kids to lose thier social skills that come from being around others.


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## Contumacious (Aug 15, 2011)

*



			Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education?
		
Click to expand...

*
Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state. 

*Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943) *


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## Two Thumbs (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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80 years ago was the start[ish] of the Great Depression.

so no, I'm not kidding.

remove the Dept of Ed and education will improve, remove the non-sense classes and our kids needed skills will improve.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

A public education ensures that an education is AVAILABLE to all....it does not mean that all will WANT to become educated.   There are the slackers, the selfish, the lazy, etc.   but at least it is offered to them and maybe, just maybe, they wake up and take part in their own education.  It doesn't always happen and those who CHOSE to not take their education seriously are the ones always held up as why our system fails.

In other countries, the lazy are weeded out early and are not measured in testing.  Furthermore, in other countries, the schools have more power to pick and choose their students and have more power to override the parents on educational choices.   

But...all in all, if people like vouchers, if people like school choice....let's try it first for about 12-13 years (one whole group of kids from Kindergarten to Graduation) in one state....say Texas...and see how it works there.  Or eliminate public education all together for 13 years in one state...say Texas...and see how it works.


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


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Yep..and after that was the real rise of a Middle Class. Before that there was no middle class.

And removing the department of education will insure that for a good amount of the people in this country..there would be no access to education..and no standards to speak of.

In other words..welcome to the third world.


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

What public school in D.C. are Obama's kids attending?


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Warrior102 said:


> What public school in D.C. are Obama's attended?



I'm sure the SS would appreciate that gesture.


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

Although Washington, D.C. public school students score very low in literature and math, they do excel in the "free food" category - 

"In 2009, 43% of all public school students were overweight or obese. This was one of the highest rates in the nation."


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## Contumacious (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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Our country is bankrupt, 50% of the electorate is dependent on the government for financial support - yep, we are a third world country indeed.

.


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## peach174 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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Never mind that it worked very well and we were in the top third in the world before the department.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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Riiiiiiiight - the US exists to serve the education establishment, not vice versa.  Never heard it put better.


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## Two Thumbs (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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If an entire region couldn't care about education, it should suffer.

Imagine states and counties competing to bring people to them by having the best schools.

With the Fed lording over, that can't really happen.



And the part middle class started up b/c there were more factory jobs needed and fewer people were needed to work the farms.  Not much education needed to work at Ford and put cars together.

And please cool it with the 3rd world non-sense.  Once you have seen one, you will know just how far we would have to fall.  Think pre-whiteman.


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## Two Thumbs (Aug 15, 2011)

Contumacious said:


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When we are killing each other for food, then we are 3rd world, but not a moment before.


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

Contumacious said:


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Yeah.

Go on.

Show me which third world country is like that?

Needless to say..we are not bankrupt, 50% of our country is not on financial support from the government (you may have a point if you meant the electorate, 41% of people in this country vote..and while I have no figures on it..seniors generally don't miss elections and are on financial support from the government, so show me a third world country with generous benefits for seniors?).

But feel free.

I don't know of any.


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Lovebears65 said:
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There are other places to socialize!! Most home schooled children  socialize they have place to get together for functions and field trips. You have sports that kids can socialize.  So dont give me you can only do it at schools!!  As a parent I can put  a daily schedule had to do it all the time when the kids were babies, in preschool, in grade school and highschool . Yeah! even in the summer so dont tell me parents cant put a child on a schedule to do course ect..
THINK OUTSIDE THE  BOX.


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## tinydancer (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? - YouTube
> 
> I am beyond tired of their shit.



I don't even have a clue what your video says. I can't run it.

But from the get go I'll say this. My daughter, bless her soul, always wanted to be a teacher.

And I made damn well sure that I gave her the funds to reach her goal. McMaster University out of Hamilton Ontario. MASTERS. A lot of years went into this. $$$$$

She became a teacher. And she's a freaking major lib. Hey I used to be as well. She starts teaching out in union territory (GM Oshawa turf) and she bails.

Why? As my darling girl so succintly put it " they're freaking commie mother fuckers mom and no way on the planet am I going to get killed trying to teach real world to their kids".

So whatever and please give me a transcript don't tell me about shit from teachers. Or teachers unions or whatever.

And all you ever do is just post an article. You can't even engage in a conversation. You are a robo lib.

Pathetic.


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> BDBoop said:
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> > Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?
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Thank you very much.


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## tinydancer (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> A public education ensures that an education is AVAILABLE to all....it does not mean that all will WANT to become educated.   There are the slackers, the selfish, the lazy, etc.   but at least it is offered to them and maybe, just maybe, they wake up and take part in their own education.  It doesn't always happen and those who CHOSE to not take their education seriously are the ones always held up as why our system fails.
> 
> In other countries, the lazy are weeded out early and are not measured in testing.  Furthermore, in other countries, the schools have more power to pick and choose their students and have more power to override the parents on educational choices.
> 
> But...all in all, if people like vouchers, if people like school choice....let's try it first for about 12-13 years (one whole group of kids from Kindergarten to Graduation) in one state....say Texas...and see how it works there.  Or eliminate public education all together for 13 years in one state...say Texas...and see how it works.



How does it work?

I'd really like to know. My daughter was thoroughly disgusted by the union she had to join.

We're talking serious lib kid here....I know....Mom's kookoo bye bye conservative but did spawn left winger child but always remember I knew Karenga before Karenga knew Karenga.

My daughter truly was disgusted by the teachers union and she told me that everything was about the union and the teachers and NOT the students.

What's going on for true? Or have we hit a point we can't get truth anymore?


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

tinydancer said:


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You can't discuss the video because you didn't watch it. None of you know what it's really about. And I'll be damned if I'll fill your tiny little minds in.


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

Lovebears65 said:


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That's fine.

I applaud that.

But kids need to socialize with people of different ethnicities, religions and socio-economic backgrounds.

I've seen poorly socialized people in my field (believe me IT is crowded with them) including one guy who broke down hysterically crying when asked to do a simple network task because he thought he was "over worked " (over coddled if you ask me).

And poorly socialized people do poorly.

True story.


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## Contumacious (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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5 Reasons Why American Riots Will Be the Worst in the World

by Silver Shield

Don't Tread On Me

Recently by Silver Shield: Death By A Thousand Cuts



I wrote an article called 5 Places NOT To Be When The Dollar Collapses. In it I wrote that societies that benefited the most from the dollar would be the worst places to be when it fell apart. While the dollar has not even collapsed yet, the strain in these areas is becoming more apparent. England is number 3 on the list has had 4 days of violent riots as people start to lose it. Israel is number 1 on that list has had massive protests. There is revolution in the air all over the world except in the US.

America is still in deep denial which is still the first stage of the Awakening. This denial will be wiped away when the dollar collapses. For now the economy is still functioning with food and fuel available. Americans still have the illusion of wealth and normalcy. They still are stuck in the false left right paradigm and think some other sock puppet will turn things around.

When the dollar collapses, all American illusions will collapse with it. Deep denial will turn into deep anger. The violence I expect in the other 3 areas on the list and all urban areas in the US, will make all other global riots pale in comparison. America is deeply infused with arrogance, denial, narcissism, drugs and violence. There is no other society that I know of that has the degree of intensity and combination of these factors.








5 Reasons Why American Riots Will Be the Worst in the World by Silver Shield


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## Avatar4321 (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



No. Pretending propaganda is education will destroy this nation.

BTW do you even know what a third world nation is?


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## ClosedCaption (Aug 15, 2011)

It's simple...

Once they moved all the manufacturing jobs overseas the only thing America produces is information.  In order to be in that field you need a college education which costs a ton of money.  If they destroy the public education system (which sucks but is better than no public education) then that lowers the amount of people who get into college.  Essentially making it a pay to play game.  The haves will have more and the have nots will have even less.


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## Warrior102 (Aug 15, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> It's simple...
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> Once they moved all the manufacturing jobs overseas the only thing America produces is information.  In order to be in that field you need a college education which costs a ton of money.  If they destroy the public education system (which sucks but is better than no public education) then that lowers the amount of people who get into college.  Essentially making it a pay to play game.  The haves will have more and the have nots will have even less.



Do you need a degree to fill one of those shovel-ready jobs Obama created ?


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## Sallow (Aug 15, 2011)

Contumacious said:


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So England is your answer?

Really?

I thought you were going to say Greece.. 

You'd at least be in the ballpark with that one..if you went there.


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

The Koch Brothers And The Battle Over Integration In Wake County's Schools

For all those too lazy-ass to watch the video.



> The stakes in the battle over the Wake County Public School System in North Carolina couldn&#8217;t be higher.
> 
> On one side are the billionaire brothers, Charles and David Koch, and the Tea Party and libertarian groups they fund. On the other, parents, students and community leaders who are bent on stopping measures passed by the conservative-led school board that they argue would re-segregate the county&#8217;s public schools, which had been a national model for diversity and integration.
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## tinydancer (Aug 15, 2011)

Contumacious said:


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I can draw a bead. 

Can you?

It only takes this reason why these riots will be the worst in the world.


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## tinydancer (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> The Koch Brothers And The Battle Over Integration In Wake County's Schools
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> For all those too lazy-ass to watch the video.
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Give me the transcript. I'm not lazy. I live in the middle of nowhere man. 

Don't hand me that crap. Lord almighty I've lived enough and been thru enough times to not have to eat shit off of the likes of you.


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## ClosedCaption (Aug 15, 2011)

Warrior102 said:


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No and you don't need a degree to deflect neither.  RePubs like to pretend that theres some perfect solution out there ONLY ONCE they've destroyed the thing we have now.  The budget, education, social security etc.  Their first goal is to destroy something that isn't perfect AND _then_ their idea (and it's only an idea) would work out perfectly. Except there is no proof of that being the case.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Warrior102 said:


> Although Washington, D.C. public school students score very low in literature and math, they do excel in the "free food" category -
> 
> "In 2009, 43% of all public school students were overweight or obese. This was one of the highest rates in the nation."



Do you think the schools made them fat?


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## Ame®icano (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



Corrected: 

Education is what helped make this country great.

Then government got involved.


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## ClosedCaption (Aug 15, 2011)

What is the alternative that repubs want to see replace public education?  Pay to learn?  Only some people get educated and others learn how to dig ditches?  what is it?


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

tinydancer said:


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> > A public education ensures that an education is AVAILABLE to all....it does not mean that all will WANT to become educated.   There are the slackers, the selfish, the lazy, etc.   but at least it is offered to them and maybe, just maybe, they wake up and take part in their own education.  It doesn't always happen and those who CHOSE to not take their education seriously are the ones always held up as why our system fails.
> ...



Your daughter should not have to join the teacher's union....I don't know of one state where she HAS to.   However, maybe if she offers in writing to NOT benefit from the teacher's union-negotiated contracts and to NOT use the Union representatives if she ends up with a conflict with the District....I'm sure she's down for that.  Suggest it to her.


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## Auxous (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't fully understand Republican hostility towards education.  Its unfortunate that they harbor such attitudes.


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## tinydancer (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Warrior102 said:
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> > Although Washington, D.C. public school students score very low in literature and math, they do excel in the "free food" category -
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I have to ask. Were you on the SFGate board over the Whipple issue? I always think I know you from different boards and you are always a champ, but I can never peg you.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

tinydancer said:


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Not heard of that board....and if you ever wonder, I ALWAYS go by "Bodecea".   No other names.


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## tinydancer (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


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Canada. She was toast. And don't get me wrong. I do believe in unions if run properly. but there is too much room for abuse these days.

Sad because I've been on both sides of issues. I've rocked both sides. Sad, Because I believe in both.


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


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Spamming the board with useless liberal BS, 24/7, is not educating oneself........It's called being a dumbass who obviously has no life or real ambitions in life.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


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Do you always lay out your life like that on messageboards?


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## Soggy in NOLA (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? - YouTube
> 
> I am beyond tired of their shit.



As we are of yours.


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


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WTF you babbling about now?


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Plasmaball said:


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Entitlement parents....who pass it on to their kids.


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


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And crappy teachers protected by corrupt unions.


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

Sallow said:


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 So your saying that if I homeschool in the county and my kids play sports in the same county they wont be with the  same social groups as the ones in the school If you give your child a well rounded things to do including sports, other activities  you will be in the same group of kids doing after school activities. In most districts you can play highschool sports  if you pay taxes even if you home school  And for the record I did not home school my children but I would if they had started these days with the access to the internet as we do now.  Plus my children are military kids and if I had home schooled them they would not only have their activities  they would have their military friends kids which is very diverse bunch of people!


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## midcan5 (Aug 15, 2011)

There are three pieces to this assault on public education. Private vs public, educational material control, and a particular power they want removed from the federal government so they control it locally. In a sense they are closely tied together. Private school vouchers support an elitist worldview that believes they know best what education should consist of, and they want to remove government controls so they can control curriculum. Consider the recent and continuing banning of Vonnegut's 'Slaughterhouse Five.' Conservatives have a worldview that requires isolation from the openness of a liberal education. They have fought it for many years now. It is this mixture of elements and values that make the issue so hard to fathom.

Slaughterhouse-Five banned by US school | Books | guardian.co.uk

http://www.usmessageboard.com/education/113858-what-makes-us-human.html

.... Generational knowledge and shared values are lost, education and emigration no longer function as unifying tools. As history is revised the base of youth change and they do not learn or know the past. Schools become more conservative as funding goes to voucher systems and schools with diverse points of view are marginalized. Students learn revisionist history. Already today conservative youth repeat the CTT interpretations. Recent examples, the Great Depression was caused by government control. Joseph McCarthy was unfairly castigated by the left. Foreign conflicts were lost because of opposing ideologies. Focus centralizes on the values of the elitist conservatives only. All actions are viewed through a narrow self congratulatory perspective. http://www.usmessageboard.com/writing/50779-end-of-democracy.html


"The Nordic countries maintain their dynamism despite high taxation in several ways. Most important, they spend lavishly on research and development and higher education. All of them, but especially Sweden and Finland, have taken to the sweeping revolution in information and communications technology and leveraged it to gain global competitiveness. Sweden now spends nearly 4 percent of GDP on R&D, the highest ratio in the world today. On average, the Nordic nations spend 3 percent of GDP on R&D, compared with around 2 percent in the English-speaking nations." Jeffrey D. Sachs  The Social Welfare State, beyond Ideology: Scientific American


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## WillowTree (Aug 15, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Full-Auto said:
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I like that judge. "Seventy thousand dollars just pissed away" and then she mutters  "moron"


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

Just go to YOUTUBE and watch  WAITING FOR SUPERMAN. and you will see how the schools are not doing good and its a teacher problem . We throw so much money into the schools because the teachers say that they need more money and we are getting the same results.  The Tenure teachers can not be fired. If a person tries to fire them they go to their union and get rehired pretty much no matter what they do. In the documentary kids took in hidden cameras and the kids sat in the class and played  craps,cards  run around while the teacher is reading a paper or talking on a  cell phone.  I am not saying all tenure teachers are bad but they need to be able to fire the bad teachers period!!


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## ClosedCaption (Aug 15, 2011)

Lovebears65 said:


> Just go to YOUTUBE and watch  WAITING FOR SUPERMAN. and you will see how the schools are not doing good and its a teacher problem . We throw so much money into the schools because the teachers say that they need more money and we are getting the same results.  The Tenure teachers can not be fired. If a person tries to fire them they go to their union and get rehired pretty much no matter what they do. In the documentary kids took in hidden cameras and the kids sat in the class and played  craps,cards  run around while the teacher is reading a paper or talking on a  cell phone.  I am not saying all tenure teachers are bad but they need to be able to fire the bad teachers period!!



I agree but the whole school system shouldnt be attacked because of a few bad teachers.  And just because the guy in that video is a POS doesnt mean no one should have access to welfare.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


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Define a crappy teacher.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Aug 15, 2011)

Full-Auto said:


> Truthmatters said:
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> > education is what helped make this country great.
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All these cement headed libs should be forced to watch this... like 100 times.  By the time this nitwit graduates, we Will have spent well over $100,000 to create one more idiot who spends his life on the dole.

Pathetic.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> Full-Auto said:
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And tell us that no good teachers ever had this student in 13 years of school.   Tell me it's ALL the teachers' and schools' fault.

I'm sure that this knucklehead's teachers have all had as much success with him as Judge Judy has.   And I'm SURE the parents were SOOOOO helpful.


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## pete (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



What hurt the education in this country?
dumb down the masses and they wonder now why we fell behind, They dont wonder they know exactly why we are behind and whos behind it


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
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Can ANYONE define a crappy teacher for us?


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## Stephanie (Aug 15, 2011)

Dr.House said:


> BDBoop said:
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> > Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?
> ...


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## freetek (Aug 15, 2011)

The Koch Brothers are capitalists and may be concerned that the public schools have become indoctrination camps for the 'social justice' crowd.
Or, maybe they are opposed to _pubic_ education, something I learned quite well on my own.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 15, 2011)

midcan5 said:


> There are three pieces to this assault on public education. Private vs public, educational material control, and a particular power they want removed from the federal government so they control it locally. In a sense they are closely tied together. Private school vouchers support an elitist worldview that believes they know best what education should consist of, and they want to remove government controls so they can control curriculum.



That garbage is straight out of the teachers union propaganda playbook.  Vouchers have NOTHING to do with elitism - they assure that a student doesn't have to stay in a failed government school, and can attend schools which do the job.  In fact, the above statement turns truth on its head - its leftwingers who are the elitists, and they want to take advantage of their captive audience to instill leftwing ideas in children from their earliest years, instead of focussing on trhe real education that they were chartered to teach.



> Consider the recent and continuing banning of Vonnegut's 'Slaughterhouse Five.' Conservatives have a worldview that requires isolation from the openness of a liberal education. They have fought it for many years now. It is this mixture of elements and values that make the issue so hard to fathom.



Leftwingers have snatched a wide range of books from school shelves, including (gasp!) the always dangerous Mark Twain.   Leftwingers have also snatched a lot from school history books about america's achievements, focussing on failures and persons critical of the US.




> Schools become more conservative as funding goes to voucher systems and schools with diverse points of view are marginalized.



NONSENSE.  In a universally privatized system, a wide variety of schools would exist - and again this is standing truth on its head - leftwingers want only ideologically pure leftwing Pee See viewpoints in school books.



> Students learn revisionist history.



........in liberal schoolbooks - the infamous culling of "dead white males" from history books, in favor of minorities, just because they are minorities - look at it as a kind of "historical affirmative action".


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## Soggy in NOLA (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Soggy in NOLA said:
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I'd bet this is more and more the norm coming out of public schools.... for whatever reason.  I didn't let my kids get anywhere near a public school.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> bodecea said:
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Well, if you're going to bet, sure....I'll take a piece of that.

Now...prove that the norm is like that guy on Judge Judy.


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## Political Junky (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? - YouTube
> 
> I am beyond tired of their shit.


They can have the majority working so cheap they won't have to go offshore to find cheap labor.


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > Just go to YOUTUBE and watch  WAITING FOR SUPERMAN. and you will see how the schools are not doing good and its a teacher problem . We throw so much money into the schools because the teachers say that they need more money and we are getting the same results.  The Tenure teachers can not be fired. If a person tries to fire them they go to their union and get rehired pretty much no matter what they do. In the documentary kids took in hidden cameras and the kids sat in the class and played  craps,cards  run around while the teacher is reading a paper or talking on a  cell phone.  I am not saying all tenure teachers are bad but they need to be able to fire the bad teachers period!!
> ...


Yeah if it was just one teacher.  It was more then one .. Several superintendents  were on there saying the same thing watch the movie. ever heard of the lemon dance!!


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

Because they are the haves.   ANd the more "haves" that are out there the more they are threatened.   The Koch brothers are a threat to this country.


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## Full-Auto (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> Because they are the haves.   ANd the more "haves" that are out there the more they are threatened.   The Koch brothers are a threat to this country.



A big threat!!!!

They employ unions.  OH MY!!!


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> California Girl said:
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The guy in that video is a prime example why  our entitlements are out of control. He still not understand why the judge was upset he wasnt paying his rent money for rent and he spent in on his self and the way he rubbed his nose I am suspected not something legal


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? - YouTube
> ...



Think they'll get away with it? I think they're screwed, thanks to the internet. Their secret games aren't so secret anymore.


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

I watched waiting for superman.   Yes blame the teachers.   They are easy scapegoats.   Truth is the american public  is too STUPID to know a good one from a bad one.


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## Full-Auto (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> I watched waiting for superman.   Yes blame the teachers.   They are easy scapegoats.   Truth is the american public  is too STUPID to know a good one from a bad one.



Thats BS too!


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## NYcarbineer (Aug 15, 2011)

theHawk said:


> Why should government be envolved in education?
> 
> We have "separation of church and state", yet churches thrive.
> 
> We should have a separation of schools and state for the same reason.  Government should not be allowed to be in a position control our children and our education.  Education should be free of government corruption and inefficiency.



Because every country that is kicking our ass educationally is even more involved governmentally in education than we are.


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> I watched waiting for superman.   Yes blame the teachers.   They are easy scapegoats.   Truth is the american public  is too STUPID to know a good one from a bad one.



Well, its not all teachers . I really blame the unions because we cant WEED out the bad ones.My son wants to be a teacher( in college now preparing for it)  and god bless him. He also wants to be one for middle school kids. He feels he can make a difference in their life before they head off to highschool


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

No it really isnt.  Sadly.   Parents today want the schools to raise their kids too.  Teach them to read, write, all of that also.   Provide everything.    Combine that with the downward stability of the american family and you have the recipe for disaster.   If america doesnt get the family unit fixed you can FORGET high achieving students.  Dont get me wrong, I believe all kids need to get a college education or technical training that way the jobs are alot higher paying.   Tell the low paying job producers to get out.  But I for one am not going to blame the teachers.   I have two kids now in the job world both of who got top notch public educations.   But then again they didnt grow up in a trashy AMERICAN city.


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## Full-Auto (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> No it really isnt.  Sadly.   Parents today want the schools to raise their kids too.  Teach them to read, write, all of that also.   Provide everything.    Combine that with the downward stability of the american family and you have the recipe for disaster.   If america doesnt get the family unit fixed you can FORGET high achieving students.  Dont get me wrong, I believe all kids need to get a college education or technical training that way the jobs are alot higher paying.   Tell the low paying job producers to get out.  But I for one am not going to blame the teachers.   I have two kids now in the job world both of who got top notch public educations.   But then again they didnt grow up in a trashy AMERICAN city.



Its fair to say some do.  Just remember it was the left that championed the single parent household. It now stands at 40% of all births in the US.

QUITE AN ACHIEVEMENT.


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

Lovebears I commend your son for going into a profession where wages are stagnant and becoming wealthy is not a practical goal.   But he can make the difference.  My kids had several teachers who have made a difference.    Good for him!


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## Political Junky (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Political Junky said:
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They *are* getting away with it so far, with help from poor and middle class cons.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Aug 15, 2011)

> Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education?



For the same reason theyre opposed to most manifestations of the public sector: it conflicts with conservative dogma. 

Per the dogma public education is a disincentive to do better. The quality of ones education  or whether one receives an education at all  should be predicated on ones income. 

And then theres the inane canard that public education teaches godless liberalism.  Its as if these people never got out of the 19th Century.


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

I too love the comparison of public education to "nazi indoctrination camps."   My kids survived their education without being indoctrinated.   Another extremist wacko position.  They said the pledge every morning and were proud of it.   Heck I could care less about the pledge.


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## Steelplate (Aug 15, 2011)

peach174 said:


> Because they want our children to be well educated and not indoctrinated to social ideology.
> We want our children to know how to spell and to read.



You may want YOUR children to know how to spell and read, but they don't want OUR(collectively) children to know how to spell and read.

Besides, yeah.... that's what we need... and entire generation as fucked up and heartless as you assholes.


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## Google (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



Public education has failed the black community.  The left has unanimously opposed any and all substantive reforms to the educations system.  Here in Atlanta (Investigation into APS cheating finds unethical behavior across every level *| ajc.com) the public education system has robbed countless youths of a future.  Ten minutes outside Atlanta, Clayton County lost its accreditation (Georgia's Clayton County Schools Lose Accreditation : NPR).  Detroit has a 47% illiteracy rate (http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/10/c...ious-causes-of-detroits-high-illiteracy-rate/). 

The United States is already on its way to becoming a third world country, and it isn't because of the Koch Brothers.


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
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You actually need it defined?....Maybe you need to look back at your own education to figure out why you need it defined.

Your problem is, all you can say is it's the parents fault.......Yep, substandard teachers have nothing to do with it......Crappy teachers protected by unions have nothing to do with it........Nope, it's all on the parents........The falling high school graduation rates are the fault of the parents. Teachers hold no responsibility whatsoever.

So, there's no sense in defining it for you, you'll just shove your fingers in your ears......Even though there is statistiucal eveidence all over the web that show incomptetent teachers do share a large part of the blame, and it's not all on the parents.


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

And it isnt because the of teachers either.   And the teachers in Georgia were under pressure to teach to the test and provide higher test scores on tests probably produced by the right wing extremists who want to destroy public education.   You cant make chicken salad out of chicken blank.   If you get a poor parts you make a poor product.


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## Political Junky (Aug 15, 2011)

Google said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
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> > education is what helped make this country great.
> ...


Really, who do you think will benefit from an uneducated citizenry? It's corporations.


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## Google (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> And it isnt because the of teachers either.   And the teachers in Georgia were under pressure to teach to the test and provide higher test scores on tests probably produced by the right wing extremists who want to destroy public education.   You cant make chicken salad out of chicken blank.   If you get a poor parts you make a poor product.



Are you serious?  

Public education routinely produces sub-par students in standardized tests, yet for some reason private schools are able to teach their student mandatory material AND have them perform on tests.  

Yes, the tests are the problem.  The teachers that cheated are victims.  You are an idiot.


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## Google (Aug 15, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> Google said:
> 
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Focus.  Do you have a point?


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## Full-Auto (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> And it isnt because the of teachers either.   And the teachers in Georgia were under pressure to teach to the test and provide higher test scores on tests probably produced by the right wing extremists who want to destroy public education.   You cant make chicken salad out of chicken blank.   If you get a poor parts you make a poor product.



PROBABLY? That is damn pathetic. So your homies rather try to improve education took the easy way out and cheated for students.

I live in a blue state bud. My grandchildren attend the number one elementary school in the state. The reasons are clear why they are number one.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
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Yes, I want it defined.  If we are going to get rid of crappy teachers, it needs to be defined.


Something you just showed you are unable to do.   Color me surprised that you rant about something so much....and you CAN'T EVEN DEFINE IT!


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## Full-Auto (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
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Ineffective - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Google said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> > And it isnt because the of teachers either.   And the teachers in Georgia were under pressure to teach to the test and provide higher test scores on tests probably produced by the right wing extremists who want to destroy public education.   You cant make chicken salad out of chicken blank.   If you get a poor parts you make a poor product.
> ...



Ours is the ONLY country that tests everyone on standardized tests and publishes the results for all...instead of just testing the higher levels and publishing only that.

We test special ed, non-english speakers, emotionally disturbed and throw that data in with everyone else's....and then we bitch about it.


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

Google said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> > And it isnt because the of teachers either.   And the teachers in Georgia were under pressure to teach to the test and provide higher test scores on tests probably produced by the right wing extremists who want to destroy public education.   You cant make chicken salad out of chicken blank.   If you get a poor parts you make a poor product.
> ...


Our kids private school kicks the crap out of every public school in the area......The quality of education, and abilities of the teachers isn't even comparable.......Our teachers don't get summers off. They are required to attend classes on the subjects they teach. Are required to show their teaching ability, in real time, in front of the chancellor. They are required to have their daily lesson plans for the entire year submitted before the school year begins, too include all home work that will be assigned. That is then passed on to the parents, so the parents know exactly what the curriculum will be for the year.

Yes, there are many parents out there who share in the responsibility. But these lib's up here who try to claim that a high number of incompetent teachers don't also share in the resposibility, are friggin' idiots.


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

"Are you serious? 

Public education routinely produces sub-par students in standardized tests, yet for some reason private schools are able to teach their student mandatory material AND have them perform on tests. 

Yes, the tests are the problem. The teachers that cheated are victims. You are an idiot.  "


You are comparing those who can afford to send their kids to private schools to those who cannot.   So its a whole different clientel.   Second, give me,  a 74 year old has been, a group of upscale economically advantaged kids and I could teach as well as anyone in their school.   I am not saying the teachers are victims.   But to teach a bunch of kids who come from economically disadvantaged areas is a difficult task at best.   Yes there are bad teachers.  There are bad doctors.   There are bad in every profession.   So lets send all the behavioral and academically challenged kids to the private schools.   Then if those test scores come down then its the teachers fault correct?   Secondly, if we are going to look at standardized tests, then if I were a teacher I would DEMAND to know every single problem on the test.   Then I could spend the whole time teaching to the test.   Anything less is setting me and the students up to failure.   Third, be very very careful who you call idiot.


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## uscitizen (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? - YouTube
> 
> I am beyond tired of their shit.



Why?  Because it would route billions of tax dollars to private hands.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Aug 15, 2011)

Test scores have little to do with the quality of a teacher; teaching to the test isnt teaching, its training.


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

But thats what most people judge teachers by.  Test scores.   Too bad most people cant see through this.   I shall also add that if you are going to judge by the test scores should teachers not have the right to teach to the test?    I mean if I am being judged by the number of cars I sell then should I not be trying to sell the most cars?   If I am being judged by test scores then should I not be teaching SOLELY to the test?  SAME EXACT SCENARIOS.


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
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> > bodecea said:
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If you need it defined, then you are abjectly stupid

But here, just because you need to be educated yet again:

Inability to motivate students. High number of failings. Can't control the classroom. Lack of knowledge on the subject they teach. Inability to recognize why a student is failing., and correcting it. Inability to recognize students with clinical learning disabilities. Etc. etc. etc.

But in your lil' liberal world, this all doesn't take place across the country, when failings across the country are on the rise.....Nope, it's all the parents fault. Those teachers are not culpable for their own failings.

Blame the students, blame the parents, excuse any obvious.......It's easier for you that way.


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## BDBoop (Aug 15, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
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> > Political Junky said:
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To my knowledge, it's only been a year or so that the Koches have been on the radar. And they've been at this shit since the 80's.


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## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
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> > Wicked Jester said:
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Still not seeing a definition....and yes I DO want it defined.   If you want to whine about "crappy teachers", the least you can do is define what a crappy teacher is......something you can't do.   How pathetic.....you can't even put your finger on what you want to rant and rave about.     It's just a rightwing mantra to you....gods forbid you actually KNOW what you are talking about.


Edited to add....1.  Inability to motivate students....you want entertainers not educators.   2.  High number of failings....so a teacher with high expectations is a crappy teacher, should just let the little darlings slide no matter how much effort they put out.  3.  Lack of knowledge in the subject they teach...agreed on that one...do you know of any math teachers who don't know math, science teachers who don't know science, etc.   Point them out for us.  4.   Inability to recognize why a student is failing...most teachers I know know damn well why students fail, however they have no power for change.  Assign homework, they don't do it...make they stay after, they don't come...have parent conferences, parents don't show or else say they can't control their children either, and so on and so forth.  5.  Inability to recognize students with clinical learning disabilities....teachers can refer but they cannot force parents to get students tested...nor are they the ones who can make such calls.  I know teachers who have been repremanded for suggesting to parents that they have their child tested.   Does that make them a good teacher and all teachers who follow school policy the crappy ones?


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## initforme (Aug 15, 2011)

"Inability to motivate students. High number of failings. Can't control the classroom. Lack of knowledge on the subject they teach. Inability to recognize why a student is failing., and correcting it. Inability to recognize students with clinical learning disabilities. Etc. etc. etc.

But in your lil' liberal world, this all doesn't take place across the country, when failings across the country are on the rise.....Nope, it's all the parents fault. Those teachers are not culpable for their own failings.

Blame the students, blame the parents, excuse any obvious.......It's easier for you that way. "

So the student has no responsiblility at all for failing?   And the parents have no responsibility in this either?   Wow you are in a dream world.   Lala land.   If YOUR kid is failing then YOU had better take some action too.   

Who is going to judge whether a teacher is bad?  An administrator?   So  now,

the administrator needs to base his opinion on

1)  which teachers the parents like
2)  which teachers the students like
3)  which teachers produce the highest test scores
4)  which teachers the administrators like

with the four above a highly effective teacher who demands discipline is OUT THE DOOR because AMERICAN parents want someone to coddle their kids or the teacher is bad.  Either way the teacher loses.   How do you fix that?   I'm all for getting rid of bad teachers but you WANT TO GET RID OF THE GOOD ONES with them.


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## Flopper (Aug 15, 2011)

Public schools are inclusive, bringing together kids of all classes, races, and ethnic backgrounds.  Private schools do just the opposite. They are exclusive.  They separate the rich from poor, blacks from whites, Jews from gentiles, Christians from Muslims, and the disabled from the mainstream.  The last thing this nation needs is more separation and division of it's people.


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## Flopper (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> "Inability to motivate students. High number of failings. Can't control the classroom. Lack of knowledge on the subject they teach. Inability to recognize why a student is failing., and correcting it. Inability to recognize students with clinical learning disabilities. Etc. etc. etc.
> 
> But in your lil' liberal world, this all doesn't take place across the country, when failings across the country are on the rise.....Nope, it's all the parents fault. Those teachers are not culpable for their own failings.
> 
> ...


You should have stopped after the first paragraph.  What's your point?


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## Salt Jones (Aug 15, 2011)

I pay for my grandkids to go to private school. Public schools in Arizona suck. The Kochs want to push their conservative agenda into schools, the same as politicians here in Arizona.


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...


Just fully defined it...You just refuse to accept the fact that there are many crappy teachers out there.

It's just too easy for you to dismiss facts. it's just too easy for you to declare that it's all the parents and students fault, and never admit that there's culpability on many teachers, as well as many students and parents.

You live with liberal blinders on, in which you prove everytime this subject comes up....In your narrow minded liberal world, stating that there are MANY crappy teachers out there, equals an attack on all teachers......And that you cannot deny.

Edited to add regarding:

1) Any teacher worth their salt motivates a student to learn. Your stupid "you want entertainers" just shows how simple minded you truly are.

2) Many teachers with high failure rates, experience those high rates because they are crappy teachers.

3) There are undoubtedly teachers who are not proficient in the subjects they teach. Which is exactl;y why summer breaks should be shortened, and all teachers required to attend classes on the subjects  teach, too include real time teaching in front of administrators to ensure they are proficient....One of the main reasons why our kids private school puts out educated kids who are far above their peers in public school.

4) Obvioulsy, many teachers don't recognize why students fail.....And don't give me that shit that they don't have any power to do anything. That's what school administrators are for. That's what CPS is all about when a notified parent does nothing.......Nice try at a cop out.....you failed.

5) See above #4


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Aug 15, 2011)

> You should have stopped after the first paragraph. What's your point?



It would have been better to stop before the first paragraph.


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## Contumacious (Aug 15, 2011)

Flopper said:


> Public schools are inclusive, bringing together kids of all classes, races, and ethnic backgrounds.  Private schools do just the opposite. They are exclusive.  They separate the rich from poor, blacks from whites, Jews from gentiles, Christians from Muslims, and the disabled from the mainstream. * The last thing this nation needs is more separation and division of it's people*.



Doesn't fascism/socialism separate the rich from poor, blacks from whites, Jews from gentiles, Christians from Muslims, and the disabled from the mainstream?

I mean fascism/socialism want to enslave the producers and the taxpayers.

.


----------



## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

initforme said:


> "Inability to motivate students. High number of failings. Can't control the classroom. Lack of knowledge on the subject they teach. Inability to recognize why a student is failing., and correcting it. Inability to recognize students with clinical learning disabilities. Etc. etc. etc.
> 
> But in your lil' liberal world, this all doesn't take place across the country, when failings across the country are on the rise.....Nope, it's all the parents fault. Those teachers are not culpable for their own failings.
> 
> ...



If we measure teachers purely by test scores, who will we get to teach the special ed students?  The chronic low achievers?   The English Second Language Students?   The students in a school (like one we have here) where 80% of the parents are illiterate?


----------



## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

This explains a lot....Of course the lib's who think that there aren not many incompetent teachers out there, and it's always the fault of the students or parents,  will pitch their usual whiney liberal hissy fits over it.

When the former president of the American Federation Of Teachers, Al Sahanker admits, " a lot of people who have been hired as teachers are basically not competent", clearly shows there is a problem with incompetency across this nation.

Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts


----------



## Steelplate (Aug 15, 2011)

Contumacious said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Public schools are inclusive, bringing together kids of all classes, races, and ethnic backgrounds.  Private schools do just the opposite. They are exclusive.  They separate the rich from poor, blacks from whites, Jews from gentiles, Christians from Muslims, and the disabled from the mainstream. * The last thing this nation needs is more separation and division of it's people*.
> ...



Fascism and Socialism are not NECESSARILY the same thing. They can be... but they aren't the same definition. Capitalism and Fascism can be the same thing too. 

Let's examine this for a second.... Which side is actually trying to separate the rich from the poor(as evident of the history of the past 30 years)?, which side separates blacks from whites, Christians from Muslims, Gay from Straight, disabled from the mainstream?

Think before you post. Your side is on the wrong side of history. Truth of the matter is, there is no GOP candidate for President worth their weight in salt other than Ron Paul.


----------



## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



What do you do when kids are motivated by nothing but video games and 'hanging out'?     No teacher does boring drill and kill anymore...like they did in those times when everyone says teaching and education was "better".



> 2) Many teachers with high failure rates, experience those high rates because they are crappy teachers.



No, a truely crappy teacher will find a way to pass everyone...a principled teacher will give students the grades they deserve...and teachers with truely high standards will get failures.  Teachers with high demands are loved by parents and students who ALREADY are motivated...they are hated by those parents and students who don't want to be bothered.  If they are vocal enough, that's your so-called "crappy" teacher.  I have friends in a school near here who saw 8th graders brag one year of "gun-decking" one teacher cause they didn't like her.   They all pencil-whipped the state test in her subject cause someone told them they could get her fired by doing that.  They had nothing to lose since the test doesn't count towards grades.   Is she a crappy teacher?



> 3) There are undoubtedly teachers who are not proficient in the subjects they teach. Which is exactl;y why summer breaks should be shortened, and all teachers required to attend classes on the subjects  teach, too include real time teaching in front of administrators to ensure they are proficient....One of the main reasons why our kids private school puts out educated kids who are far above their peers in public school.



Teachers do that...where have YOU been.   As for private schools, wouldn't it be nice if Public schools could pick and chose their clientele too?



> 4) Obvioulsy, many teachers don't recognize why students fail.....And don't give me that shit that they don't have any power to do anything. That's what school administrators are for. That's what CPS is all about when a notified parent does nothing.......Nice try at a cop out.....you failed.



Oh, they know alright...people like you don't like to here when your kids can't cut it, are lazy (I know TONS of teachers who would LOVE to tell parents the truth)  but they have no power...the MAIN reason 50% of teachers leave the field in the first 5 years....and because of people like you who use teachers as scapegoats for your own failings.


> 5) See above #4



See my answer to #4.


----------



## Steelplate (Aug 15, 2011)

Amen Bodecea....

That's the problem with Public Education. It's not the teachers as much as it is the kids, who have always tried to get away with doing less(or nothing) and still pass.... and the parents, who are overworked, underpaid, stressed out and don't have the time or energy to kick their kids' asses like my parents did my generation. You see, my parents had good paying jobs, a solid roof over our heads, food in our stomachs and time enough to help us with our homework or to kick our asses when we needed it.

Not to say that there aren't bad teachers out there. There are. But that's not the main problem.


----------



## uscitizen (Aug 15, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



As I have been posting the real power in the USA has finally started coming out of the woodwork.  Our transition to the dark side is almost complete.


----------



## uscitizen (Aug 15, 2011)

Steelplate said:


> Amen Bodecea....
> 
> That's the problem with Public Education. It's not the teachers as much as it is the kids, who have always tried to get away with doing less(or nothing) and still pass.... and the parents, who are overworked, underpaid, stressed out and don't have the time or energy to kick their kids' asses like my parents did my generation. You see, my parents had good paying jobs, a solid roof over our heads, food in our stomachs and time enough to help us with our homework or to kick our asses when we needed it.
> 
> Not to say that there aren't bad teachers out there. There are. But that's not the main problem.



Our parents focused on what was important in life, not the frivolities.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...


Your abject refusal to admit that there are many crappy teachers out there, and insist on placing all the blame for this country's public schools failings on students and parents, clearly deems you as part of the problem.

Sad but true....And as long as there are people like you out there who refuse to hold those many crappy teachers accountable, there will never be a solution to the problem.

And yes, they do have power. They have the power to report it to the proper authorities.....Knock it off with the cop out crap.


----------



## uscitizen (Aug 15, 2011)

What changed things?

Television and all the advertising, etc it programmed us with.

You deserve a break today....


----------



## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> What changed things?
> 
> Television and all the advertising, etc it programmed us with.
> 
> You deserve a break today....



I agree....students expecting INSTANT gratification...INSTANT entertainment.

It actually makes me chuckle to think that if our teachers and schools went back to the way we were taught in the 50s/60s with the drill n' kill and corporal punishment and schools actually having a say on failing students ...  with today's students and today's parents, grades would be even MORE in the crapper.   They don't want to work for it, and parents don't want to work as parents...I would say a very large majority of public school parents are looking for a daytime baby sitter FIRST.   Grades are nice, but the place to plink the kid for 8 hours is more important to them.


----------



## ClosedCaption (Aug 15, 2011)

The funny thing is that the right can only find ONE problem with something as complex as the public school system.  Teachers!  Thats some deep thinking right there.

sad


----------



## Steelplate (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't forget "Unions", closed captioned.


----------



## uscitizen (Aug 15, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> The funny thing is that the right can only find ONE problem with something as complex as the public school system.  Teachers!  Thats some deep thinking right there.
> 
> sad



But those evil teachers have unions!


----------



## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> The funny thing is that the right can only find ONE problem with something as complex as the public school system.  Teachers!  Thats some deep thinking right there.
> 
> sad


Yeah right, and here I am stating that it's a problem within all three entitites, parents students and teachers. And yes, there are many incompetent teachers out there.

Ya' see, the funny thing about you lib's, is the FACT that you only try to whitewash the problem because most of those incompetent teachers are members of the corrupt unions that you lib's worship. If that weren't the case, you lib's wouldn't give a damn about those incompetent teachers.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

Gotta throw this out again, 'cause it's ineteresting watching you lib's avoid like the plague. Particularly since one of your beloved former union president admits it's a damn problem.

Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts


----------



## ClosedCaption (Aug 15, 2011)

#147 you blame everyone but in #148 you're back to your old self.  #148 is what you show most often and I wasnt addressing you specifically anyway so stop being a sensitive Sally.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 15, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.



Horseshit.  If that were true, the Soviet Union would have won the Cold War.



Truthmatters said:


> killing education will make us a third world country



Killing government education is not the same as "killing education."  In fact, its how you save education.


----------



## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

bripat9643 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > education is what helped make this country great.
> ...



For only the "truely worthy", right?


----------



## uscitizen (Aug 15, 2011)

Wicked Jester said:


> Gotta throw this out again, 'cause it's ineteresting watching you lib's avoid like the plague. Particularly since one of your beloved former union president admits it's a damn problem.
> 
> Keeping Bad Teachers in Front of Students | Teachers Union Facts



And that is no different from my generation.
go for something else that HAS changed.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Aug 15, 2011)

uscitizen said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> > Gotta throw this out again, 'cause it's ineteresting watching you lib's avoid like the plague. Particularly since one of your beloved former union president admits it's a damn problem.
> ...



Whatever, my kids went to private school.


----------



## Flopper (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> > "Inability to motivate students. High number of failings. Can't control the classroom. Lack of knowledge on the subject they teach. Inability to recognize why a student is failing., and correcting it. Inability to recognize students with clinical learning disabilities. Etc. etc. etc.
> ...


Teachers are not evaluated primarily by test scores.  The principal is the primary factor.  Test scores are used much more to determine how well a school is doing and where improvement is needed.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Killing government education is not the same as "killing education."  In fact, its how you save education.
> ...



What's the point of arguing with morons who only know how to spout slogans?


----------



## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

Flopper said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > initforme said:
> ...



But there are forces that want that to change.


----------



## bodecea (Aug 15, 2011)

I still say, try all those wonderful right wing ideas about education on one state...Texas would be good...for about 13 years and see how it works out.


----------



## Wicked Jester (Aug 15, 2011)

bodecea said:


> I still say, try all those wonderful right wing ideas about education on one state...Texas would be good...for about 13 years and see how it works out.


So, what's your idea.......Continue to coddle the crappy teachers who are definitely a part of the problem?

Oh, that's right, it's all the fault of the parents and students. The crappy teachers bear no responsibility.......They're the bestest teachers in da' whole wide worlds.

Like I said, you are part of the damn problem.


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 16, 2011)

initforme said:


> I too love the comparison of public education to "nazi indoctrination camps."   My kids survived their education without being indoctrinated.   Another extremist wacko position.



Remember

"barack hussein obama - mmmm, mmmm, mmmmm"


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 16, 2011)

bodecea said:


> I still say, try all those wonderful right wing ideas about education on one state...Texas would be good...for about 13 years and see how it works out.



Unfortunately, the libs and the teachers unions will do everything they possibly can to prevent it.  

Why is that?


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 16, 2011)

Flopper said:


> Public schools are inclusive, bringing together kids of all classes, races, and ethnic backgrounds.  Private schools do just the opposite. They are exclusive.  They separate the rich from poor, blacks from whites, Jews from gentiles, Christians from Muslims, and the disabled from the mainstream.  The last thing this nation needs is more separation and division of it's people.



True, but a universal privatized system would include mostly non-parochial schools which had to admit students by law as a public accomodation.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 16, 2011)

initforme said:


> I too love the comparison of public education to "nazi indoctrination camps."   My kids survived their education without being indoctrinated.   Another extremist wacko position.  They said the pledge every morning and were proud of it.   Heck I could care less about the pledge.



That's what every brainwashed tool says.


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 16, 2011)

Salt Jones said:


> I pay for my grandkids to go to private school. Public schools in Arizona suck. The Kochs want to push their conservative agenda into schools, the same as politicians here in Arizona.



Leftwingers are the ones who have actually succeeded in pushing their political agenda into schools.


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 16, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> Really, who do you think will benefit from an uneducated citizenry? It's corporations.



They all support public education, don't they?


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 16, 2011)

ClosedCaption said:


> The funny thing is that the right can only find ONE problem with something as complex as the public school system.  Teachers!  Thats some deep thinking right there.
> 
> sad



Yeah.  Imagine if a farm turned out rotten crops, and someone tried to blame the FARMER!  There's just no justice, i tell ya.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Aug 16, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> *Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education?*


It's very simple!!​


> "Since a spoiled child finds that all his needs are met without question he expects life to treat him the same when he becomes an adult."
> 
> *The Maturity-Free Lifestyle*


----------



## bripat9643 (Aug 16, 2011)

initforme said:


> But thats what most people judge teachers by.  Test scores.   Too bad most people cant see through this.   I shall also add that if you are going to judge by the test scores should teachers not have the right to teach to the test?    I mean if I am being judged by the number of cars I sell then should I not be trying to sell the most cars?   If I am being judged by test scores then should I not be teaching SOLELY to the test?  SAME EXACT SCENARIOS.



Without testing, how do you know if students are learning anything?  

The answer is:  you don't.  That's why the defenders of the government education boondoggle hate tests.

I would really like to know how you numskulls intend to evaulate teacher performance without student testing.


----------



## Steelplate (Aug 16, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> > I too love the comparison of public education to "nazi indoctrination camps."   My kids survived their education without being indoctrinated.   Another extremist wacko position.
> ...



Wow... reach much? Hell, you must have pulled your shoulders out of your sockets trying to grab that one.


----------



## Steelplate (Aug 16, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > The funny thing is that the right can only find ONE problem with something as complex as the public school system.  Teachers!  Thats some deep thinking right there.
> ...



as opposed to the hail storm that blew through and smashed them to smithereens... or the drought that caused them to wilt, or......

Yeah... I guess it's just easier to blame the farmer.


----------



## editec (Aug 16, 2011)

> *Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? *


 
*Any time people get together that frightens social bullies.*


----------



## ClosedCaption (Aug 16, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > The funny thing is that the right can only find ONE problem with something as complex as the public school system.  Teachers!  Thats some deep thinking right there.
> ...



I see education has failed you as well


----------



## Seawytch (Aug 16, 2011)

If unions are the problem with our education system, why is South Carolina at the bottom of the US education rankings? They are a non union state. 

If unions were the problem with our education system, Vermont would not be at the top of the US rankings and Finland, which has 100% union participation, would not be at the top of the world rankings. 

Sorry "conservatives", it ain't the unions.


----------



## Warrior102 (Aug 16, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> If unions are the problem with our education system, why is South Carolina at the bottom of the US education rankings? They are a non union state.
> 
> If unions were the problem with our education system, Vermont would not be at the top of the US rankings and Finland, which has 100% union participation, would not be at the top of the world rankings.
> 
> Sorry "conservatives", it ain't the unions.



Where are you seeing South Carolina at the bottom ?  I always figured it would be Washington, D.C. - you know, our nation's capitol. Probably the WORST public school system in America. One would think these schools would be the "shining star" example for places like South Carolina to follow, as an example. 

Source please ?


----------



## Seawytch (Aug 16, 2011)

Warrior102 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > If unions are the problem with our education system, why is South Carolina at the bottom of the US education rankings? They are a non union state.
> ...



Student Performance
 Top

 1. Vermont
 2. Massachusetts
 3. Florida
 4. New Hampshire
 5. New York

Bottom 
 51. South Carolina
 50. West Virginia
 49. Michigan
 48. New Mexico
 47. Louisiana

State Education Ranking Shows Vermont #1, South Carolina Last


----------



## editec (Aug 16, 2011)

Tyrants and tryant wannbes like Koch do not like an educated public.

This is not obvious?

They focus on dismantling public education because the teachers unions in public schools typically vote to support candidates that people like Koch fear.

These people HATE anything remotely democratic.

Democracies demand an educated public to function well.

Again, this is not _obvious_ to all of us?


----------



## Warrior102 (Aug 16, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



S.C. is in the top ranking for grades, according to your link. 
Why did you fail to mention that ?


----------



## bodecea (Aug 16, 2011)

bripat9643 said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> > But thats what most people judge teachers by.  Test scores.   Too bad most people cant see through this.   I shall also add that if you are going to judge by the test scores should teachers not have the right to teach to the test?    I mean if I am being judged by the number of cars I sell then should I not be trying to sell the most cars?   If I am being judged by test scores then should I not be teaching SOLELY to the test?  SAME EXACT SCENARIOS.
> ...



I dont' think most of us have objections to testing...but what we see now, is some form of standardized testing that all must take (one size fits all), that does NOT count for a grade (kids have no buy in to do well), and is it a true measurement or just a feel good measure?

New York's Regents is the way to go, IMO....they've been around for at least 60 years...the test changes every year and IT COUNTS.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Aug 16, 2011)

Truthmatters said:


> education is what helped make this country great.
> 
> killing education will make us a third world country



All the more reason to get government OUT of education.


----------



## Steelplate (Aug 16, 2011)

Warrior102 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...



So... grades equal performance? Heck, there are illiterate Football players have college degrees... doesn't mean they can read.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Aug 16, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?



Did anybody give a rat's ass what mindless twaddle you managed to find on YouTube to get yourself worked up about?

::listens to the sound of crickets::

That's what I thought.

Like I think you leftist dipshits know anything about the Koch brothers, anyway.  They're just the most handy rich Republicans you could find to divert attention away from George Soros.


----------



## Steelplate (Aug 16, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> BDBoop said:
> 
> 
> > Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?
> ...



I know that their Daddy was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society, an anti-civil rights group in the 60's, and they are taking up where their father left off.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Aug 16, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > OMG I think TruthMatters and BDPOOP ( no not a spelling error in her name ) does google all day just to post threads!!
> ...



Educate yourself?  Remain aware?  You watched a bunch of idiots bitch on YouTube, and then couldn't even post an opinion about it other than "I hate the targets I've been told to hate".

You're right.  That IS too funny.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Aug 16, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > Just watch" waiting for superman" and see how ( at least Tenure teachers act)  Sometimes you can get more of an education by having your kids learn on an online school!!
> ...



So enroll them in Scouting, or some other sort of extra-curricular activity.

Honestly, school is the only time in a person's life when they socialize with people with whom they have nothing whatsoever in common except age.  I never saw much practical value to it, even aside from the fact that one is not supposed to be socializing in a classroom, anyway.


----------



## Contumacious (Aug 16, 2011)

editec said:


> Tyrants and tryant wannbes like Koch do not like an educated public.



Really, so Koch is a member of the communist party? 




> They focus on dismantling public education because the teachers unions in public schools typically vote to support candidates that people like Koch fear.



So if he is not a communist, wouldn't you expect him to fear communists?


----------



## JMadison (Aug 16, 2011)

Full-Auto said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > education is what helped make this country great.
> ...



What's the chance of education being killed?


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 16, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> If unions are the problem with our education system, why is South Carolina at the bottom of the US education rankings? They are a non union state.
> 
> If unions were the problem with our education system, Vermont would not be at the top of the US rankings and Finland, which has 100% union participation, would not be at the top of the world rankings.
> 
> Sorry "conservatives", it ain't the unions.



Here's a source that ranks overall student K12 achievement for highly unionized washington DC at 46 out of 50, and California, whose teachers' unions are among the most powerful unions in this country, ranked 49 out of 50.  

http://www.edweek.org/media/ew/qc/2011/QualityCounts2011_PressRelease.pdf

Sorry, your assertion fails.


----------



## Seawytch (Aug 16, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > If unions are the problem with our education system, why is South Carolina at the bottom of the US education rankings? They are a non union state.
> ...



No actually, it doesn't. I'm saying it's not the unions and your link did nothing to prove it is. The top states on your list are union states.


----------



## BDBoop (Aug 16, 2011)

editec said:


> Tyrants and tryant wannbes like Koch do not like an educated public.
> 
> This is not obvious?
> 
> ...



Thank you. I've been getting information by PM as well so I can form a complete picture of what's going on here.


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 16, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> Patrick2 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



The bottom ones on the list are unioin states too.  You offer evidence that unions have nothing to do with the failure, then discount equivalent evidence that shows they do. Uhhhhh, OK!


----------



## Seawytch (Aug 16, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Patrick2 said:
> ...



If non union states are at the top and bottom as well as union states, that leaves a logically thinking person to conclude that it isn't the unions.


----------



## tinydancer (Aug 16, 2011)

bodecea said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Wicked Jester said:
> ...



Very simply put, a crappy teacher is one that thinks they have a day job instead of a mission to embrace young minds and take them on a journey where no one else can.

I'll give you my version of an awesome teacher. They are out there and bless their souls, I had them.

Miss Jewel. World History Grade 10. She knew that the Napoleonic wars were boring as all get out so to spice it up she made us all wear period costumes in the class. 

I got to play Josephine at one point  Then she had us dress up for battle. I loved history classes.

Seriously, this woman was a genius. She made history come alive. And that was without all the tools teachers have at their disposal today. There was no internet. No tv in the classroom. 

This was all from her mind.

We loved her to death and looked forward to going to her classes. 

Now that's a teacher!!!


----------



## tinydancer (Aug 16, 2011)

Oh and definition of a crappy teacher. I can't remember her name but I can see her face. Whoa geeze and boy oh boy can I see her face.

Grade 3. She had taken the month of September to confiscate bubble gum from all of us chewing it.
What we didn't know is that she had kept all our bubble gum in a giant mason jar. 

I was the unlucky soul caught chewing bazooka bubble gum on October 1st.  She brings out this mason jar and asks me how much do I like chewing gum in her class.

This is a ruh roh moment of a lifetime. For my punishment for chewing dubble bubble, she takes out the giant wad of gum from the mason jar and makes me chew it with the gum already in my mouth.

The humiliation was beyond. Not the gum. Not the gum chewing. It's what that bitch did to me. 

Yuppers, I think she fits the bill of a crappy teacher.


----------



## tinydancer (Aug 16, 2011)

Steelplate said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...





Well then please take a moment out and look at your left foot because you just shot yourself in it.

By your logic by this post Obama must be a communist loving anti civil society individual.

You know. Taking up where his father left off. Oh and Obama must love polygamy as much as his dad did.


----------



## bodecea (Aug 16, 2011)

tinydancer said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



That sounds like a great class....now the teachers I know used to have great lessons like that but they had to dump them in order to follow the district directed calendar to make sure everything was covered before testing in early May....even tho school doesn't end til mid-June.  Wouldn't surprise me if the district allows one-two lecture days to cover the Napoleonic period now.    I know the U.S. Civil War needs to be covered from causes to Reconstruction in 2 weeks.


----------



## Cecilie1200 (Aug 16, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Tyrants and tryant wannbes like Koch do not like an educated public.
> ...



Oh, good.  You've been getting information from people who are stupid enough to want to be in contact with you personally and directly.  THAT should work out well.


----------



## rdean (Aug 16, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > education is what helped make this country great.
> ...



Finally we can agree on something.  Wealth redistribution from the middle class to the top 1% has certainly made us closer to a "Third World Country".  Republicans are actually proud their policies have worked so well.


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> Patrick2 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Nooooooo....... because a logically thinking person would look at more than just such simple-minded correlations - eg, the TIMSS tests, which regularly show the US low in  performance in math and science compared to other industrial countries.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 17, 2011)

rdean said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



A leftwinger's dimwitted non-grasp of economics in only maxist class warfare terms is always good for a laugh.


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 17, 2011)

Steelplate said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > BDBoop said:
> ...



And which left-wing blog do you "know" that from?


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## BDBoop (Aug 21, 2011)

And the whining continues. Christ! Man up, you two. Strap on a pair.



> Like their Tea Party group Americans for Prosperity, the Kochs are changing the subject rather than trying to rebut our video point-for-point. And now Americans for Prosperity has told journalists that there's pending litigation against us. These reporters were also told there could be litigation against them too if they continue writing about us.
> 
> What are the Kochs so defensive about? Our video doesn't say they broke any laws. The press reports about the Koch brothers' influence in Wake County doesn't report that either, although this photo is worth 1,000 words.
> 
> ...



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-greenwald/are-the-koch-brothers-afr_b_932001.html


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## Political Junky (Aug 21, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Steelplate said:
> 
> 
> > Cecilie1200 said:
> ...


John Birch Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Origins
The society was established in Indianapolis, Indiana, on December 9, 1958, by a group of 12 led by Robert Welch, Jr., a retired candy manufacturer from Belmont, Massachusetts. Welch named the new organization after John Birch, an American Baptist missionary and U.S. military intelligence officer who was killed by communist forces in China in August 1945, shortly after the conclusion of World War II. Welch claimed that Birch was an unknown but dedicated anti-communist,[6] and the first American casualty, Welch contended, of the Cold War.
*One of the founding members[21][22][23] was Fred Koch,[24] founder of Koch Industries, one of the largest private corporations in America.[25*


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## CrusaderFrank (Aug 21, 2011)

Public education needs to die a quick death. Progressive have used their control of eduction to totally sabotage this country. The vast majority of our students have no idea about our government, our founding and our founding principles. In NYC, even after spending a college tuition of $18K per student, only 1 in 6 high school graduates can perform in college. And not Harvard either, any college.

Our students are ignorant and dependent, that's the Democrat base.

This is why the 2012 election is so important. When we win it all back the Department of Education needs to be terminated like something from the Corleone Baptism


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## Woyzeck (Aug 21, 2011)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Public education needs to die a quick death. Progressive have used their control of eduction to totally sabotage this country. The vast majority of our students have no idea about our government, our founding and our founding principles. In NYC, even after spending a college tuition of $18K per student, only 1 in 6 high school graduates can perform in college. And not Harvard either, any college.
> 
> Our students are ignorant and dependent, that's the Democrat base.
> 
> This is why the 2012 election is so important. When we win it all back the Department of Education needs to be terminated like something from the Corleone Baptism



What does the Department of Education do that's so evil, Frank?


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## whitehall (Aug 21, 2011)

Why pick on the Koch brothers? They aren't elected representatives. They aren't even teachers like the former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers and his wife. They are Jewish. Is that the problem?


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 21, 2011)

Political Junky said:


> Cecilie1200 said:
> 
> 
> > Steelplate said:
> ...



I love it when liberals enthusiastically rush in to prove me right about them.  I rest my case.


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 21, 2011)

Woyzeck said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Public education needs to die a quick death. Progressive have used their control of eduction to totally sabotage this country. The vast majority of our students have no idea about our government, our founding and our founding principles. In NYC, even after spending a college tuition of $18K per student, only 1 in 6 high school graduates can perform in college. And not Harvard either, any college.
> ...



Aside from violating Article I of the US Constitution by existing?


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## KissMy (Aug 21, 2011)

California Girl said:


> I really wish I hadn't watched that. How absolutely depressing. What the fuck are we creating?
> 
> I am gonna have to re-evaluate my support for public education.



This video will piss you off even more!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE"]College Conspiracy[/ame]


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## Wicked Jester (Aug 21, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> And the whining continues. Christ! Man up, you two. Strap on a pair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You throw up what will no doubt be some loony liberal BS from huffpost, and actually think a clear thinking person would even bother opening it?



Seriously, you need to start gearig up for the school year, lil' girl........You offer up nothing on this board, and only make yourself look completely young and ignorant.


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## KissMy (Aug 22, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McolzELI_dU&feature=relmfu"]Ted Kennedy on taxes[/ame]


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## editec (Aug 22, 2011)

> *Why do the Koch brothers want to end public education? *


 
*Because the TEACHERS UNIONS traditionally supported Democrats.*

*Had they been supporting Republicans, all along, you wouldn't hear a peep out of the right.*

*This isn't obvious?*


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## M.D. Rawlings (Aug 27, 2011)

theHawk said:


> Why should government be envolved in education?
> 
> We have "separation of church and state", yet churches thrive.
> 
> We should have a separation of schools and state for the same reason.  *Government should not be allowed to be in a position control our children and our education.*  Education should be free of government corruption and inefficiency.



Exactly!

*The Year of School Choice*


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## JoeB131 (Aug 28, 2011)

What has always amazed me is that the same Democrats who so solidly support Public Education are the same ones who would never subject their own children to it.  

I went to the Catholic Schools in Chicago.  In grammer School, I rubbed elbows with the kids of the local congressman.  No way was he sending his spawn to the Public Schools.  In High School, all the Democratic Machine kids went to De La Salle.   A great taunt was, "Your dad's under indictment..ha ha."   

The Clintons and Obamas sent their kids to private schools in Washington, where the PUblic schools are considered the worst in the country.


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## bripat9643 (Aug 29, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?



I've never seen such a tawdry piece of propaganda in my life.  The sinister music every time the Koch brothers are mentioned was the killer!


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## JoeB131 (Aug 29, 2011)

BDBoop said:


> Did anybody watch the video. Anybody. Bueller?



As about as much of it as I can stomach. 

Whether it's lefties seeing a Koch Brother under their bed or a right winger seeing Soros in their closet, I'm always amazed that people think voters are such weak creatures that they can be tricked into voting for evil.  

Let's recap here.  The complaint is that this county abandoned busing kids around the county to achieve integration.  Boo-hoo.  I mean, are people still arguing for that at this point?  

They abandoned that in the urban centers decades ago when they realized all the white people had already gotten out, either by moving to the 'burbs or putting their kids in private schools. (This includes, of course, Democratic Politicians, who put their kids in private schools. "Sidwell Liberals".) 

So "School Choice" is already there, if you have the affluence to enroll your kid in a private school or move to a nicer neighborhood.  

20% of Public School graduates can't read their diplomas.   BUt as long as the NEA and AFT keep issuing those big checks to the DNC, then you guys are all for them.


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