# Crimea votes to join Russia.



## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 16, 2014)

http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/

Congratulations to Crimea. I am a fan of the Ukranian Nationalists but I am also a huge fan of secession and independence movements.


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## Rozman (Mar 16, 2014)

Will the left look at this as another outstanding achievement for Obama?


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 16, 2014)

Had nothing to do with Obama. It was NONE of the US's business either way. Its between Ukraine/Russia/Crimea. End of the story.


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## USNavyVet (Mar 16, 2014)

Wow an illegal and rigged election goes to Russia. Anyone surprised? Even CNN caught a guy putting two ballots in the ballot box.


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

You would know if it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.

But now we know it isn't rigged. 

Glory to Russia!


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 16, 2014)

This is just the beginning. Bloodshed is coming


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 16, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/
> 
> Congratulations to Crimea. I am a fan of the Ukranian Nationalists but I am also a huge fan of secession and independence movements.



dissenters were picked up for questioning

only to appear days later, cured of their dessention.


yea democracy


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 16, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> You would know it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.
> 
> But now we know it isn't rigged.
> 
> Glory to Russia!



wow, you kinda suck at sarcasm.  but props for the effort


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## peach174 (Mar 16, 2014)

USNavyVet said:


> Wow an illegal and rigged election goes to Russia. Anyone surprised? Even CNN caught a guy putting two ballots in the ballot box.



They didn't need to rig it.
The vast majority of them are pro Russian because they are from Russian descendants.


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## The2ndAmendment (Mar 16, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/
> 
> Congratulations to Crimea. I am a fan of the Ukranian Nationalists but I am also a huge fan of secession and independence movements.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Excellent. That's how easy secession is, let's learn from it. After all, the 13 Colonies seceded from the UK.


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

The2ndAmendment said:


> O.R.I.O.N said:
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> > About 93% of Crimeans in referendum voted to join Russia - exit poll ? RT News
> ...



The Texas Nationalists, Southern Nationalists and the Alaskan Independence Party should be taking notes from this.

Secession is the most American of values.


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## Jughead (Mar 16, 2014)

Avatar4321 said:


> This is just the beginning. Bloodshed is coming


You ain't kidding.

Let's look at the ethnic breakdown of Crimea. It is comprised roughly of 58% Russian, 24% Ukranian, 12% Crimean Tatar, and 6% other. Now if Crimea does indeed break away from Ukraine to join Russia, armed conflict is unavoidable.

If the Ukraine is divisible, thus allowing Crimea to break away and join Russia, by that same logic, Crimea is also divisible. Pockets of Crimea where Ukranians form the majority will have their own referendums to partition themselves from Crimea and rejoin the Ukraine. Civil unrest will unfold and casualties will be high.


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## pvsi (Mar 16, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/
> 
> Congratulations to Crimea. I am a fan of the Ukranian Nationalists but I am also a huge fan of secession and independence movements.


I am for unity of nations, and I would normally be against any secession, but in the case of Ukraine, you and I know that the protests were hijacked by bankers, and Russia had to step in to stop all the killings of the police and protesters by snipers (who experts say fired from same weapons)
I hope all of Ukraine will join together with Russia and I hope Russia stops playing a game of international bankers and tells them to f off.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 16, 2014)

Didn't Germany claim rights to parts of other countries b/c Germans lived there?


It's not like history repeats itself or anything.


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## RoadVirus (Mar 16, 2014)

And now we will be honored with another rambling speech by Sec. of State Lurch, once again launching empty threats at Russia.


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

Two Thumbs said:


> Didn't Germany claim rights to parts of other countries b/c Germans lived there?
> 
> 
> It's not like history repeats itself or anything.



Yes, because heaven forbid people have the right of self-determination, it's *naht-zi*, lol.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

peach174 said:


> USNavyVet said:
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> > Wow an illegal and rigged election goes to Russia. Anyone surprised? Even CNN caught a guy putting two ballots in the ballot box.
> ...



Exactly. Demographically 60 % are ethnic Russians and Kiev is seriously anti Russian now with this interim government.

If I were Crimean I'd want Russia's protection big time. They know they are hated and reviled for just being of Russian descent and not pure Ukrainian.


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## USNavyVet (Mar 16, 2014)

peach174 said:


> USNavyVet said:
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> > Wow an illegal and rigged election goes to Russia. Anyone surprised? Even CNN caught a guy putting two ballots in the ballot box.
> ...



And yet it was rigged and illegal as well.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 16, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> peach174 said:
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This is exactly it. Now that Kiev has gone to the Ukrainian nationalists who hate Russians, why would a majority Russian area want to remain under that government? The question now is what is the U.S. government willing to do about it.


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## novasteve (Mar 16, 2014)

Ukraine crisis: Early results show Crimea votes to join Russia - CNN.com

Obama what will you do when Russia annexes it tonight or tomorrow?


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 16, 2014)

novasteve said:


> Obama what will you do when Russia annexes it tonight or tomorrow?



I'm sure you'll find a way to be upset regardless


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## Camp (Mar 16, 2014)

120% of Crimea voted in favor of Putin being boss and Crimea being part of Russia. 90% of RW conservative American's agreed. Observers will go to Crimea in the next week or two to insure the voting was fair. Military forces roaming the streets with machine guns and tanks were ordered to pretend to be invisible during the voting so as not to appear as a threat. Rumors were spread that Ukraninian dogs blown up in recently installed mine fields on the border meant to protect against a Ukranian invasion and not to be seen as an iron curtain meant to keep people in Crimea will be replaced by nicer Russian dogs if the vote went the way Putin wanted it to go.


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## theHawk (Mar 16, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> You would know if it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.
> 
> But now we know it isn't rigged.
> 
> Glory to Russia!



Yea, the EU is a "sinking ship" so it is better to join Russia?  Russia can't even provide hot water and electricity to all of its citizens 7 days a week. 

The elections there are a farce.  Anyone who isn't pro-Russia will find themselves victims of the mob or the Russian army.


Romney was right, Russia is our biggest geo-political foe.  It's too bad we have a spineless bafoon in office that only inspires asswipes like Putin to grab more power.


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## Geaux4it (Mar 16, 2014)

Another big win for Obama

-Geaux
====================================

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-16/us-vs-russia-3-cartoons

Sometimes a picture paints a thousand words... but on occasion, it takes three to get the full perspective...

How Russians see Putin...







How Americans see Obama.






How the rest of the world sees Obama..


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## theHawk (Mar 16, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> peach174 said:
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Just because people are of Russian decent doesn't mean they like Russia and Putin.

And of course Kiev would be seriously anti-Russian at this point, their country has been invaded by Russia.


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## RandallFlagg (Mar 16, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> You would know if it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.
> 
> But now we know it isn't rigged.
> 
> Glory to Russia!




The Russian economy is at it's lowest since the wall fell. The ruble is nearly useless. Yeah, I can see how Crimea would pick Russia over the EU - get a look at the voting form, skippy?

There were two choices - both involved Crimea being repatriated by Russia - that's one HELL of a choice.


"Glory to Russia" ?? That tells me all I need to know about you.


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## Pheonixops (Mar 16, 2014)

Jughead said:


> Avatar4321 said:
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> > This is just the beginning. Bloodshed is coming
> ...



I hope that they can sort this out in a peaceful manner, if they have an armed conflict, that's on them. We should have stayed out and we should stay out of that region and it's affairs. This region is right on Russia's doorstep, how we we like them interfering in our region? I don't even think that we should be threatening economic sanctions. We should have just left well enough alone.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

USNavyVet said:


> peach174 said:
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How is it illegal for an autonomous state to vote to secede from a government that overthrew a duly elected government?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 16, 2014)

theHawk said:


> Steinlight said:
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> > You would know if it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.
> ...



Entirely possible that the Tatars and ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea might suffer in some ways as a result, but it's just as possible, and maybe more likely, that the ethnic Russians in Crimea would suffer under the Ukrainian nationalist government in Kiev.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

Pheonixops said:


> Jughead said:
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I'm still in freaking shock at our governments thinking Putin/ Russia was just going to give up his multi million dollar naval port in Crimea for his Black Sea Fleet.(and as you know I have been slagging my own conservative government as well, I've been very bi partisan in my anger ).

Seriously, what the hell is every body smoking at NATO and the EU and in our Western capitals?


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## RandallFlagg (Mar 16, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Pheonixops said:
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Everyone at NATO and the EU have a very teeter-totter relationship with Russia. This is the logical outcome of of Russia being the largest supplier of oil to the EU. It's a similar deal to the US working so closely with China - selling off many of our assets to China (thanks Bill Clinton!). We become "dependent" on the goodwill of China just as the EU is now "depending on the goodwill" of Russia.

As long as everyone stays in their own "backyards" - the kiddies play well together. However, when the "bully" Russia decides that, because their economy is failing, to repatriate Crimea - what is the EU to do? And then, what is to stop them from repatriating the rest of the Ukraine? or Poland? or even the post war East Germany? Who's to stop them? Surely, the "red-line" in the sand by Obama hasn't had the intended result, now has it?

Keep your eyes on China and North Korea. This is just the beginning........


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

theHawk said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
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> > You would know if it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.
> ...



Which *con*-servative radio talk show host told you that, or did you get the crap from the left wing homo media and their darling dyke Rachel Maddow?

Russia is the 5th largest economy in the world by purchasing power parity.

Russia consistently since 1999 has had higher gdp growth per year than the United States.

GDP growth (annual %) | Data | Table

Russia also has a unemployment rate of 5.6%, far lower than the US, where unemployment is 12.5% at least. 
Russia Unemployment Rate | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast
Table A-15. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

Russia doesn't have a fake economy based on funny money from the FED. They didn't ship their industry overseas with free trade and high taxes, and actually tap into their natural resources. They broke from the IMF under Putin, refusing to pay debts to the global loan sharks and are now prospering because of it.

Crimeans know this and aren't stupid.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

theHawk said:


> tinydancer said:
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The opposition has been seriously anti Russian before the issue of Crimea came up.

That's why they overthrew the duly elected government. Svoboda who has been given key posts have a most interesting "pure ethnically Ukrainian view"

Their party platform includes stripping ethnic Russians of their Ukrainian citizenship. One of the first bills passed was to ban the Russian language but it was vetoed by the new interim President after pressure from the EU. Oh and to strip Crimea of its autonomy. 

Shall I go on?


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

theHawk said:


> tinydancer said:
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If by kiev you mean the hired protestors of the US, Zionists and EU and the "right wing nationalist" NATO trained thugs of Right Sector, yes they are anti-Russian. But they wouldn't dare try their bullshit if Putin rolled through Kiev. They would pack up their crap with their tail between their legs and beg for mercy from Tsar Putin. They took advantage of a weakness and corruption in Yanukovych that Putin doesn't have.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

RandallFlagg said:


> Steinlight said:
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> > You would know if it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.
> ...



With all due respect, the World Bank has Russia doing ok at this point in time. And the Ukraine is desperately in financial ruin. 

And if you want to talk totalitarian regime you really should check out the EU 

Hell's bells Britain isn't even allowed to deport terrorists because the EU says they can't.


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## paulitician (Mar 16, 2014)

Good for them. I wish em well. Now can we mind our own business and move on?


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

First Crimea has their referendum, now we need referendums throughout to EU and let the people break up this behemoth that destroys national sovereignty and identity. But the EU doesn't want to do that, because they know many nations like including United Kingdom, Ireland, France etc could break away and break it's back.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

Just to back up my comments regarding Svoboda the uber Nationalists:

*Criminal prosecution for &#8220;Ukrainophobia&#8221;

Only those born in Ukraine can become Ukrainian citizens, with the exceptions for those who have lived in Ukraine for more than 15 years, know the Ukrainian language, culture and Ukrainian Constitution
Renunciation of the 2010 Kharkiv agreements

 Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children

Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions

Abolition of Crimean autonomy******ding ding ding******

*

Svoboda (political party) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> theHawk said:
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Svoboda is considered a pariah by European nationalists across the continent, from the UK and France to Greece and Bulgaria, and Serbian, Polish, and Hungarian Nationalists have condemned them as agents of NATO, EU and Zionism.


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## paulitician (Mar 16, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> First Crimea has their referendum, now we need referendums throughout to EU and let the people break up this behemoth that destroys national sovereignty and identity. But the EU doesn't want to do that, because they know many nations like including United Kingdom, Ireland, France etc could break away and break it's back.



I wonder how the meddling Brits feel about Scotland getting ready to break away? That's gonna get pretty interesting. Stay tuned.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Good for them. I wish em well. Now can we mind our own business and move on?



And not send one thin dime to the Ukraine. Let the EU pay off their debts. They wanted the Ukraine.

And what the heck is going on with the bill that now Kerry wants America to fund the IMF?
Have you heard about that?


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## Steinlight (Mar 16, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Steinlight said:
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> > First Crimea has their referendum, now we need referendums throughout to EU and let the people break up this behemoth that destroys national sovereignty and identity. But the EU doesn't want to do that, because they know many nations like including United Kingdom, Ireland, France etc could break away and break it's back.
> ...



That is another interesting facet, break-ups within nations. Look to Catalonia breaking from Spain as well.


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## blackhawk (Mar 16, 2014)

And if Putin and Russia don't stop with the Crimea what then?


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## paulitician (Mar 16, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> paulitician said:
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Yeah, i think the meddling Brits are in for a rude awakening. Scotland's about to dump em. I love it.


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## Swagger (Mar 16, 2014)

Good. People are beginning to wake up to the E.U's culture of deceit and promotion of cultural degeneracy. I look forward to the day their tentacles are clipped and heads are on spikes.


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## paulitician (Mar 16, 2014)

Swagger said:


> Good. People are beginning to wake up to the E.U's culture of deceit and promotion of cultural degeneracy. I look forward to the day their tentacles are clipped and heads are on spikes.



Yup, illegal coups are now 'Democracy' and Referendums are 'illegal and illegitimate.' Well, that's their take today anyway. It changes year to year. Most of the Warmongers here are conveniently forgetting this whole thing started with an illegal coup in Kiev. The U.S. and Great Britain should no longer be allowed to be the sole deciders on what's legal/illegal, or what is or isn't 'Democracy.' They just don't have the moral high ground on such issues. They shouldn't have been in such a rush to support the illegal coup in Kiev. This isn't worth a major conflict with Russia.


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## theHawk (Mar 16, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> USNavyVet said:
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It's not necessarily illegal, but can you take an election/vote seriously when armed thugs are around you?

Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99% of the vote, doesn't make it legitimate.


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## paulitician (Mar 16, 2014)

theHawk said:


> tinydancer said:
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Armed thugs just overthrew the Government in Kiev. They aren't legitimate. We shouldn't be supporting and funding them.


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## tinydancer (Mar 16, 2014)

theHawk said:


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The Crimea has always been pro Russian. You have to understand the province/state was given as a gift to the Ukraine in the mid 50's by Nikita K and demographically they are 60% ethnic Russian.

Oh and they know that western Ukraine hates their guts.  ETA: especially those that overthrew the government. 

It's a no brainer that Crimeans would seek the protection of Russia.


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## B. Kidd (Mar 16, 2014)

RandallFlagg said:


> Steinlight said:
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> > You would know if it were rigged if the Ukraine and EU won the vote. No rational person(unless they are bought off by the US State Department, EU, and IMF) wants to join the sinking ship of the EU with it's economic decline through debt and unemployment and social decline through promoted homosexuality, feminism, and third world mass immigration.
> ...




Putin could require that the EU pay for Russian gas and oil only in rubles and/or gold.


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## 1776 (Mar 16, 2014)

It was rigged because the Russian military was standing around the election booths with guns. If you think it is ok for a foreign military show up in your country and call for an election.....then you are fucking insane.


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## 1776 (Mar 16, 2014)

Oh wait.....the kooks here believe "Putin." Their hero said the Russian military is not in Crimea....


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## 1776 (Mar 16, 2014)

The joke is I heard it will cost Russia $3B a year to support Crimea.....Putin might be regretting this move even if the US and EU don't hammer his ass with sanctions.


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## LonBabby (Mar 16, 2014)

novasteve said:


> Ukraine crisis: Early results show Crimea votes to join Russia - CNN.com
> 
> Obama what will you do when Russia annexes it tonight or tomorrow?



The US has no fiscal interest. If he's worth his own salt as an isolationist and a president he won't give two shits.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 16, 2014)

Avatar4321 said:


> This is just the beginning. Bloodshed is coming


That's fine with me as long as its not American's blood being spilled. Its none of our business.



blackhawk said:


> And if Putin and Russia don't stop with the Crimea what then?


Why does it matter? Let Russia and whoever they invade/attack deal with it.


1776 said:


> It was rigged because the Russian military was standing around the election booths with guns. If you think it is ok for a foreign military show up in your country and call for an election.....then you are fucking insane.



Like the US Military did in Afghanistan and Iraq?


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## blackhawk (Mar 16, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> Avatar4321 said:
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> > This is just the beginning. Bloodshed is coming
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Thank your the Neville Chamberlain perspective.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 16, 2014)

No problem.


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## blackhawk (Mar 16, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> No problem.



As history shows that perspective turned out to be quite a problem but whatever.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 16, 2014)

Depends on your point of view really. I say Churchill and Roosevelt provoked a war with Germany. Chamberlain knew better than to get involved in a war that had no affect on him or his country. Hitler wanted peace with England and said that many times.England may have won the war but it lost its entire empire.


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## Bill Angel (Mar 16, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> Depends on your point of view really. I say Churchill and Roosevelt provoked a war with Germany. Chamberlain knew better than to get involved in a war that had no affect on him or his country. Hitler wanted peace with England and said that many times.England may have won the war but it lost its entire empire.



Did Churchill and Roosevelt provoke Hitler into invading Poland? I don't think so!

Sent from my BNTV600 using Tapatalk


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## Steinlight (Mar 17, 2014)

theHawk said:


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Fuck you and your neo-con zionist bs. You just can't stand the fact that people so roundly reject the EU, IMF, NATO, and thus by extension American Imperialism.

95% of the vote was in favor of joining Russia, and there was 85% voter turnout. Even a majority of Tatars participated, voting majority in favor of joining Russia. 
http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/

International observers found not violations of voting laws or voter intimidation.
http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 17, 2014)

Bill Angel said:


> O.R.I.O.N said:
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> > Depends on your point of view really. I say Churchill and Roosevelt provoked a war with Germany. Chamberlain knew better than to get involved in a war that had no affect on him or his country. Hitler wanted peace with England and said that many times.England may have won the war but it lost its entire empire.
> ...



1. Part of "poland" was Germany's that was stolen from them during the first world war.
2. "poland" was committing mass murder against German civilians in parts of "poland" 
He was justified.


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## Bleipriester (Mar 17, 2014)

So if the west would have encouraged the Ukrainians to determine whether they want to "belong" to the west or the east instead of supporting a violent aggression against stability and order, things would have taken a different direction.
At first the west couldn´t wait for the next elections to achieve his goal, probably due his long odds, second he declared not to accept the democratic referendum in the Crimea. 

Now we know their definition of democracy, it is not even a cheap phrase but a fraud per se.


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## rightwinger (Mar 17, 2014)

O.R.I.O.N said:


> http://rt.com/news/crimea-vote-join-russia-210/
> 
> Congratulations to Crimea. I am a fan of the Ukranian Nationalists but I am also a huge fan of secession and independence movements.



I don't understand these Communist and former Communist countries when it comes to fixing a vote. They seem to think that a unanamous vote gives them some credibility. 95.7% vote to join Russsia?    How do you get 95.7% of the people to agree on anything?  You have to figure 30% of the public has some financial ties to the Ukrainian government and would vote to save their jobs or fortune

Reminds me of the recent vote in N Korea where Kim got 99.9% of the vote with 100% turnout


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## Bleipriester (Mar 17, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> O.R.I.O.N said:
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Given that the Crimea people still feel Russian I don´t wonder. And the need for officials doesn´t decrease.


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## rightwinger (Mar 17, 2014)

Bleipriester said:


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I call bullshit

No way 95.7% of voters would agree. Someone has to have a legitimate interest in maintaining the status quo

Even the American Revolution would have a hard time getting 60% of the people to vote for it


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## paulitician (Mar 17, 2014)

1776 said:


> It was rigged because the Russian military was standing around the election booths with guns. If you think it is ok for a foreign military show up in your country and call for an election.....then you are fucking insane.



It's all rigged. The U.S. and Great Britain should have dealt with the illegal coup honestly and fairly. But they didn't do that. They forced Russia's hand instead. They helped create this mess. They were not honest neutral brokers. They were only thinking about what was best for themselves. And now Russia is doing the same. It is what it is.


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## paulitician (Mar 17, 2014)

1776 said:


> The joke is I heard it will cost Russia $3B a year to support Crimea.....Putin might be regretting this move even if the US and EU don't hammer his ass with sanctions.



And how much Taxpayer Cash are we gonna give the new illegitimate Government in Kiev? Bet it's a whole bunch. What do you think?


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## Camp (Mar 17, 2014)

paulitician said:


> 1776 said:
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> > It was rigged because the Russian military was standing around the election booths with guns. If you think it is ok for a foreign military show up in your country and call for an election.....then you are fucking insane.
> ...



You continuously comment about the illegal government in Kiev and the illegal coup sounding like a good transmitter of Russian disinformation. Whats up with that? Do you not recognize the legally elected parliamentary government of Ukraine that impeached Yanukovich and called for a new election under the constitution of Ukraine? They were specifically enforcing Article 108 Part 3 and Aritcle 111 of their constitution which gave them the duty and responsibility to impeach and set a date for a new election. On what grounds do you claim the parliament acted illegally?


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

Camp said:


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> > 1776 said:
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Doesn't justify our involvement. We have enough problems right here at home. I'm tired of my country and Great Britain meddling all over the World. How many $Billions in Tax Dollars are gonna get flushed on this one? And for what? Greed, and pissing off the Russians? Well, no thanks. Let's get our $Billion back and mind our own damn business.


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

US to violate own laws by financially aiding Ukraine&#8217;s coup-installed Govt

Washington&#8217;s decision to provide financial aid to the coup-appointed government of Ukraine goes against the US laws, Russia&#8217;s Foreign Ministry said, urging American politicians to think about the consequences of supporting the radicals in Kiev.

Ukraine&#8217;s ousted president, Viktor Yanukovich, said on Tuesday that the US plans to loan $1 billion to the country&#8217;s new authorities are illegal.

&#8220;Indeed, in accordance with the amendments introduced to the 1961 law (Foreign Assistance Act) a few years ago the provision of foreign assistance is prohibited to &#8216;the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree.&#8217; The relevant provision is contained in 22 US Code § 8422,&#8221; the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

&#8220;Thus, by all criteria the provision of funds to the illegitimate [Kiev] regime, which seized power by force, is unlawful and goes beyond the boundaries of the US legal system,&#8221; the statement added.

However, the ministry said it realizes that the American side &#8220;would hardly recognize this obvious fact&#8221; due to the stance it has already taken in the Ukrainian crisis.

&#8220;The US administration will most probably continue to close its eyes on the dominance of the ultranationalist forces in Kiev, which have launched a hunt for dissidents across the country, increasing pressure on the Russian-speaking population and our compatriots, threatening the people in the Crimea with punishment for their desire for self-determination,&#8221; the ministry stressed.

Moscow has also urged the decision makers in the US to think hard about the possible consequences of &#8220;reckless indulgence of radical Nazi-oriented elements in Ukraine.&#8221;

Prohibition of American financial support to governments, which came to power via a coup, &#8220;isn&#8217;t some esoteric issue&#8221; as it has been applied just recently, he stressed.

US Code § 8422 saw the US Congress freezing financial aid to Egypt, following the 2013 military coup, which resulted in the ousting of president, Mohamed Morsi...

Read More:
US to violate own laws by financially aiding Ukraine?s coup-installed govt ? Moscow ? RT News


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

For crying out loud Crimea was Russian till Nikita gave the country as a present to the Ukraine in the mid 50's. Demographically it is still a majority of ethnic Russians.

Considering the whack jobs in Kiev who overthrew the duly elected pro Russian President absolutely HATE ethnic Russians and as part of their party platform state plain out that they were going to take away Crimea's autonomy and ban the Russian language and strip certain ethnic Russians of citizenship it is a freaking no brainer how the vote went.


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

Camp said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > 1776 said:
> ...



Svoboda and Right Sector were the muscle. This was a coup. Members of the duly elected government left for their own safety and others quite simply voted to save their ass.

You obviously don't really understand who these goons are that took over. And it's not Russian propaganda to state that Svoboda and the Right Sector are "uber Ukrainians"  and are anti Jew and anti Russian. 

When one's party platform includes "making Ukrainaphobia a crime" aka you shoot your mouth off about the new government and you go to jail sure you can't be construed as a democracy loving party.


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> For crying out loud Crimea was Russian till Nikita gave the country as a present to the Ukraine in the mid 50's. Demographically it is still a majority of ethnic Russians.
> 
> Considering the whack jobs in Kiev who overthrew the duly elected pro Russian President absolutely HATE ethnic Russians and as part of their party platform state plain out that they were going to take away Crimea's autonomy and ban the Russian language and strip certain ethnic Russians of citizenship it is a freaking no brainer how the vote went.



It's already a done-deal. They'll end up agreeing to split the country in half. America, Great Britain, and some allies will own one half, and Russia will own the other half. There won't be War over this one. However, there could be quite a bit of bloodshed in the divvying up process. Possibly like what happened in India when Pakistan was created. There could be some ethnic cleansing. It might get pretty ugly.  

But personally, i don't want to own any part of Ukraine. It'll likely end up costing American Taxpayers far more than it's worth. We should have just stayed out of it. But greed is a powerful thing. We couldn't help ourselves. It's pretty sad.


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

paulitician said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > For crying out loud Crimea was Russian till Nikita gave the country as a present to the Ukraine in the mid 50's. Demographically it is still a majority of ethnic Russians.
> ...



This whole thing is just insane to me. I get that the EU wanted and pushed for the new government and I know about Nuland and the monies already spent.

Okey dokey. What was done was done and water under the bridge. But to now financially back the new government is crazy. The EU wanted them the EU can pay for them. 

I am so angry. 

I elected my freaking government to govern my country. Not try to govern the world.
Fix my economy and fix my pot holes.

Sorries. I'm spitting bullets as you can tell.


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

Now for those that think that Putin is just laying "propaganda" out there by calling these goons for what they are check this out.

This is from BBC 2012. Long before the coup.

First the "thuggery". You bet they intimidated whoever was left in the government to impeach the President. 


*Meeting for its first two sessions in mid-December, the Rada - as it has a number of times in the past - degenerated into scenes that resembled not so much a legislative process as an ice hockey brawl, involving dozens of shoving, punching and kicking parliamentarians.

Svoboda's newly installed deputies, clad in traditional Ukrainian embroidered shirts, were in the thick of the melee, when not actually leading the charge.

They helped attack and drive from the opposition's ranks two deputies - a father and son - who were accused of preparing to defect to the ruling party. 

Then they joined a massive free-for-all around the speaker's rostrum, in protest at alleged illegal absentee-voting by deputies from the governing party.*







BBC News - Svoboda: The rise of Ukraine's ultra-nationalists


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

And here is a great representation of the anti jew sentiment of Svoboda (you have to remember they were rewarded with plum positions for being the muscle)

This is who we are freaking backing?

*The open letter (2005)





    Title - Stop the Criminal Activities of Organised Jewry

    Signed by Tyahnybok and 17 others

    Lists Jewish businessmen, who got rich in the 1990s, and claims they control Ukrainian media

    Describes Zionism as "Jewish Nazism" and warns of "genocide" through the impoverishment of Ukrainians

    Demands investigation into the activities of Jewish organisations headed by people "suspected of serious crimes"
*

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20824693


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Now for those that think that Putin is just laying "propaganda" out there by calling these goons for what they are check this out.
> 
> This is from BBC 2012. Long before the coup.
> 
> ...



We are all Ukrainians now. Oh goody. Happy days are here again.


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

Oh and it gets better. I don't have a warm and fuzzy about this new government. 

*Other Svoboda members have also courted controversy.

Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn, a parliamentary deputy considered one of the party's ideologues, liberally quotes from former Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, along with other National-Socialist leaders.*

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20824693


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

paulitician said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Now for those that think that Putin is just laying "propaganda" out there by calling these goons for what they are check this out.
> ...



You would think that any party that believes in an "ethnically pure Ukraine" and was part of the take over would set off some alarms.

I know when I first started checking into Svoboda and Right Sector I was thunderstruck by how history was repeating itself in western Ukraine.


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



Just another sad & costly misadventure. Hopefully one day Americans will tire of these interventionist follies. I still have hope. But I have to admit that hope is fading. Endless Wars and interventions is all most Americans know now.


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

paulitician said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
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I guess what shakes me to my core is how easily duped everyone is with the "now democracy comes to the Ukraine" lie. And falling for the "Putin bad/ Russia bad" garbage they are fed by our media and our politicians. 

Cripes I'm fighting conservatives and liberals at every turn over Crimea. It's crazy. And so many just don't ask the basic question.

"Why do we have to pay for this?"

Aye carumba. When will it end?


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## Steinlight (Mar 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> And here is a great representation of the anti jew sentiment of Svoboda (you have to remember they were rewarded with plum positions for being the muscle)
> 
> This is who we are freaking backing?
> 
> ...



Why would "neo-nazis" put in President Yatsenyuk, a Jew, the Israeli Dual Citizen Kolomoysky(an oligarch) as governor of Donetsk, and take money from the zionist Victoria Nuland at the State Department?

It is a very odd convergence of interests in Ukraine.


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## RandallFlagg (Mar 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> paulitician said:
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> > tinydancer said:
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Darlin, that "basic" question should have been asked a million times before...Japan, Germany, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, Poland, China, Yugoslavia (and then Croatia), England, France, Spain, El Salvador, et al.

The United States has paid out TRILLIONS of dollars to foreign countries for the last 150 years - and to liberals, we are the "bad guy".

And yes, Putin is a scumbag. Russia is nothing more than a country. A country of people just like anywhere else. Yet, during the height of the Cold War - rather that allow millions to starve, we supplied millions of bushels of wheat to their starving people so they might eat.

The same thing with countless other countries.  And WE are the bad guy.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Mar 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Oh and it gets better. I don't have a warm and fuzzy about this new government.
> 
> *Other Svoboda members have also courted controversy.
> 
> ...



And yet, it's ironically Putin and Russia who are the newest Hitler to so many people taking the U.S. government line. Never mind the actual Nazis in power in Kiev.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> And here is a great representation of the anti jew sentiment of Svoboda (you have to remember they were rewarded with plum positions for being the muscle)
> 
> This is who we are freaking backing?
> 
> ...



Truth hurts eh? Oh and Svoboda is pro israel.

Ukraine Right Sector Leader Rails Against ?Jewish Oligarchs? -- News from Antiwar.com

I am pulling for Right Sector. TRUE NATIONALISTS. Not Kosher ones.


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

Just another costly misadventure. This was't our business. There was no need to meddle. The U.S. and Great Britain are just meddling too much around the World. And much of the World is beginning to resent that. This particular misadventure is gonna cost American Taxpayers plenty. What a shame.


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

Americans should be very wary about what their Leaders are telling them about those who carried out the Coup in Kiev. Be careful what you wish for America. In my humble opinion, we should get our $Billion back and stay out of this. 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_38CaoUbE]Anti-Russians Display Controversial U.S. Confederate Flag In Kiev - YouTube[/ame]


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## Uncensored2008 (Mar 18, 2014)




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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

For the Obamabots especially, i suspect they hate Putin and Russia just because their Dear Leader told them they were supposed to. Their arguments for supporting our involvement in this are pretty incoherent and weak. I'm guessing it's more of that 'Because Obama' stuff...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-sdO6pwVHQ]Help Obama Kickstart World War III! - YouTube[/ame]


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## JakeStarkey (Mar 18, 2014)

The obamahaters will get on him if he acts or if he does not act.

So dismiss them as most mainstream Republicans do.

My personal opinion is that the US has no dog in the hunt for Crimea.


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## paulitician (Mar 18, 2014)

What if Scotland and Venice choose Secession? What will the U.S. and Great Britain do about it? Will they declare those Referendums 'illegal' too? It could get pretty sticky.


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## Uncensored2008 (Mar 18, 2014)

paulitician said:


> What if Scotland and Venice choose Secession? What will the U.S. and Great Britain do about it? Will they declare those Referendums 'illegal' too? It could get pretty sticky.



I didn't know Venice was moving that way. Scotland is a very sticky situation. I would HOPE the USA would be neutral, regardless of the outcome.


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## RandallFlagg (Mar 18, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > What if Scotland and Venice choose Secession? What will the U.S. and Great Britain do about it? Will they declare those Referendums 'illegal' too? It could get pretty sticky.
> ...




Can't ever tell about Scotland....they've been asking for their freedom for the last 1200 years....who knows? Maybe this time?


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## Camp (Mar 18, 2014)

RandallFlagg said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



I thought Mel Gibson took care of that.


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## RandallFlagg (Mar 18, 2014)

Camp said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Good old Mel fought his butt off, but it was for naught. Mel didn't understand that Longshanks had already (secretly) signed an executive order placing Scotland under British rule for eternity.....:bad grin:


After all - Longshanks DID have a "pen and a phone".....


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## Vikrant (Mar 18, 2014)

On YouTube, I found this speech of Putin on the referendum. It is long, detailed and covers lots of history. 

---

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDLwu4E35us]Putin: Crimea similar to Kosovo, West is rewriting its own rule book (FULL SPEECH) - YouTube[/ame]


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## tinydancer (Mar 18, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > And here is a great representation of the anti jew sentiment of Svoboda (you have to remember they were rewarded with plum positions for being the muscle)
> ...



They agreed to his appointment for a trade off for very powerful positions in the new interim government. No brainer. 

Politics has always made very strange bedfellows.


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## paulitician (Mar 19, 2014)

So what have we learned?...Referendums are only considered 'Legal' by the U.S. and Great Britain if they benefit them in some way. Otherwise, they're bad and definitely 'Illegal.' Bout sum this one up?


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## RandallFlagg (Mar 19, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> The obamahaters will get on him if he acts or if he does not act.
> 
> So dismiss them as most mainstream Republicans do.
> 
> My personal opinion is that the US has no dog in the hunt for Crimea.




Link?


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## paulitician (Mar 19, 2014)

Looks like we'll be experiencing some serious Blowback on this one. The perpetrators of the Coup in Kiev are beginning to look like some very unsavory characters. Why are we giving them several $Billion in Tax Dollars again? I'm still not getting it.


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## paulitician (Mar 19, 2014)

Yeah unfortunately, this one does look like it's gonna go the Syrian route. We've been supporting Terrorist psychos there. And now it looks like we're supporting Nazi psychos in Ukraine. Americans need to research who the perpetrators of the coup in Kiev really are. Here's a hint, they're not pleasant people.


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 19, 2014)

The US is supporting Right Sector in the Ukraine?


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## O.R.I.O.N (Mar 19, 2014)

both official and academic sources state he was born t&#1086; a family of ethnic Jewish-Ukrainians

That's the PM of Ukraine. HIGHLY doubt he is a "nazi" LOL


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