# Cheating on your Lover



## Lumpy 1

Cheating .. defined as having sex, of any kind with someone other than your lover.

My point of few is that there is no good excuse for it.

Yet the question always comes down to this..

"Should we split up or stay together"

My answer for the victim .. "split up, I doubt you'll get over it but I'll support you either way"

My answer for the cheater.."Dumb Ass"


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## LuckyDan

Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?

Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single. 

Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)

If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.


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## JW Frogen

I am an honest man of integrity, if you are one of my lovers I will never cheat on you or the others.

Rock solid word on that.

Other parts are rock solid too.


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## Shadow

My point of view.

If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.


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## Lumpy 1

Shadow said:


> My point of view.
> 
> If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.



Sorry Guys.. going with the Lady on this one..


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## dilloduck

I've been on both ends of that one. It sure makes for some high drama. Maybe that's why some people like putting all their eggs in one basket.


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## JW Frogen

Lumpy 1 said:


> Sorry Guys.. going with the Lady on this one..



All right I can't stand it anymore, 

Will you marry me Lumpy?


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## Barb

Shadow said:


> My point of view.
> 
> If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.



So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.


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## Lumpy 1

LuckyDan said:


> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.



When you're single and you have an understanding of sexual loyalty and one of you breaks it .. that's it .. no trust.. it's over.. (still up to them.. I just wouldn't stand for it)

On the husband wife thing.. I'm not saying they should split up, I'm saying it up to them but the odds of trust being renewed.. pretty slim.

Also.. I think guys get just as emotionally involved as the ladies. There is something about guys ego's though.. they may not really want her but they don't want any other guy have her, I don't know if the Ladies feel the same way..


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## dilloduck

Lumpy 1 said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you're single and you have an understanding of sexual loyalty and one of you breaks it .. that's it .. no trust.. it's over.. (still up to them.. I just wouldn't stand for it)
> 
> On the husband wife thing.. I'm not saying they should split up, I'm saying it up to them but the odds of trust being renewed.. pretty slim.
> 
> Also.. I think guys get just as emotionally involved as the ladies. There is something about guys ego's though.. they may not really want her but they don't want any other guy have her, I don't know if the Ladies feel the same way..
Click to expand...


It's all chemistry Lumpy----get out your test tubes.


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## syrenn

alright lumpy, what are you REALLY asking?


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## LuckyDan

Lumpy 1 said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you're single and you have an understanding of sexual loyalty and one of you breaks it .. that's it .. no trust.. it's over.. (still up to them.. I just wouldn't stand for it)
> 
> On the husband wife thing.. I'm not saying they should split up, I'm saying it up to them but the odds of trust being renewed.. pretty slim.
> 
> Also.. I think guys get just as emotionally involved as the ladies. There is something about guys ego's though.. they may not really want her but they don't want any other guy have her, I don't know if the Ladies feel the same way..
Click to expand...

 
Ego? If a man doesn't want a woman why would he care who she sleeps with? Unless he's a control freak. Maybe that's what you meant.

I believe the sexual natures of men and women are worlds apart. Men have an innate desire for variety which makes monogamy more difficult for them than for women.

Edit - Not that men should get a pass for being unfaithful. It is a broken promise in a marriage and a painful one. I just disagree with you that if it happens once, the marriage should end. Not necessarily.


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## Lumpy 1

syrenn said:


> alright lumpy, what are you REALLY asking?



Oh.. I'm sssoooo lonely.... 

No hidden agenda here.. I just though it was worth discussion.. 

Okay.. I'll admit this.. politics IS getting boring...


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## dilloduck

Lumpy 1 said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> alright lumpy, what are you REALLY asking?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.. I'm sssoooo lonely....
> 
> No hidden agenda here.. I just though it was worth discussion..
> 
> Okay.. I'll admit this.. politics IS getting boring...
Click to expand...


Amen bro-------Dems and GOPs duking it out is some mighty stale shit


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## gslack

I am pretty sure I am no one to judge the workings of others minds or hearts... Or other parts for that matter... Nor am I one for absolutes especially in regards to the human heart or sexuality. 

In my opinion, if you can live with an incident of cheating and not make each others life hell or become a doormat with repeated offenses, and you want to try and make it work; go for it and let others decide their own fate and choices.

however if you cannot live with it, and or it will never change or stop; best get shut of the partner ASAP. As mentioned by another poster, I have been on both sides as well. This is why I feel the way I do about it... I have been saint and sinner and all points between, and I am no one to judge or criticize anyone's actions or behavior. 

I feel each relationship is just as unique as the partner, and should not be undertaken with any preconceptions or expectations.. Life is about living, and relationships are about living with another person. You never know what a person is capable of both good and bad, so its hard for me to say what I will or will not forgive with each person.


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## mudwhistle

Barb said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point of view.
> 
> If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.
Click to expand...


Unless the disabled partner agrees to let you have girlfriends.

Otherwise you can leave or stay and be celibate.


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## dilloduck

mudwhistle said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point of view.
> 
> If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless the disabled partner agrees to let you have girlfriends.
> 
> Otherwise you can leave or stay and be celibate.
Click to expand...


What would justify a disabled partner not letting you have girlfirends?


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## goldcatt

It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.


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## Shadow

Barb said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point of view.
> 
> If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.
Click to expand...


I don't know...is this something they have agreed to as a couple?  Or is one partner sneaking around behind the others back?


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## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.



Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?


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## Barb

mudwhistle said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point of view.
> 
> If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless the disabled partner agrees to let you have girlfriends.
> 
> Otherwise you can leave or stay and be celibate.
Click to expand...


That's a hard row to hoe mud. My mom left my father after many years of celibacy, and while it wasn't the only issue, it was definitely a factor. This happened when I was the same age as my daughter is now, and at 22, I was left to fail to convince a man who had no bait on his hook that life was worth living. He killed himself, and I felt responsible. She had every right to a full life, fully lived, and while that wasn't the only problem in their marriage, it might have been the basis for many of the others. So tell me, would it have been better for her to have an affair and find some happiness in life, or was it better for her to take his with her and run with it? Is a mate required to decompose at the same (sometimes accelerated rate), as their spouse or are they allowed to find some solace in this life while maintaining other responsibilities? 

In this case, I think the French have the better answer. The home, marriage and family, is the center of economic and social security, and the variables of life are taken as they come.


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## Lumpy 1

JW Frogen said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Guys.. going with the Lady on this one..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All right I can't stand it anymore,
> 
> Will you marry me Lumpy?
Click to expand...


I tell you what .. I'll think about it, how do look in fish net stockings and tight leather skirts?...


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## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
Click to expand...

 
Because most men are capable of it, and should be recognized and appreciated by their wives for remaining faithful. Surely you know people who are happy in their marriages.


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## Barb

Shadow said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point of view.
> 
> If they will cheat on you once...they will cheat on you again.  Not worth your time (learned this the hard way.)  Cheating is a definate deal breaker IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know...is this something they have agreed to as a couple?  Or is one partner sneaking around behind the others back?
Click to expand...


Neither. It is an issue that has not and cannot be addressed. There are only two choices, deprivation or deception. Which would you choose?


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## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because most men are capable of it, and should be recognized and appreciated by their wives for remaining faithful. Surely you know people who are happy in their marriages.
Click to expand...


they make the promise simply because they can ?


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## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because most men are capable of it, and should be recognized and appreciated by their wives for remaining faithful. Surely you know people who are happy in their marriages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they make the promise simply because they can ?
Click to expand...

 
They make the promise, I would assume, because they want to be married.


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## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because most men are capable of it, and should be recognized and appreciated by their wives for remaining faithful. Surely you know people who are happy in their marriages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they make the promise simply because they can ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They make the promise, I would assume, because they want to be married.
Click to expand...


There are many people married in this world that haven't made this promise.


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## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
Click to expand...


Making it? Ask 10 people you'll probably get five different answers ranging from pure possesiveness to helping their partner feel secure - and the rest blank stares because they never thought about why. Believing it? Because they want to, even in situations where it's probably not realistic.


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## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Making it? Ask 10 people you'll probably get five different answers ranging from pure possesiveness to helping their partner feel secure - and the rest blank stares because they never thought about why. Believing it? Because they want to, even in situations where it's probably not realistic.
Click to expand...


It's those that "never thought about why" that concerns me.


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## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Making it? Ask 10 people you'll probably get five different answers ranging from pure possesiveness to helping their partner feel secure - and the rest blank stares because they never thought about why. Believing it? Because they want to, even in situations where it's probably not realistic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's those that "never thought about why" that concerns me.
Click to expand...

 
Why?


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## Lumpy 1

LuckyDan said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you're single and you have an understanding of sexual loyalty and one of you breaks it .. that's it .. no trust.. it's over.. (still up to them.. I just wouldn't stand for it)
> 
> On the husband wife thing.. I'm not saying they should split up, I'm saying it up to them but the odds of trust being renewed.. pretty slim.
> 
> Also.. I think guys get just as emotionally involved as the ladies. There is something about guys ego's though.. they may not really want her but they don't want any other guy have her, I don't know if the Ladies feel the same way..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ego? If a man doesn't want a woman why would he care who she sleeps with? Unless he's a control freak. Maybe that's what you meant.
> 
> I believe the sexual natures of men and women are worlds apart. Men have an innate desire for variety which makes monogamy more difficult for them than for women.
> 
> Edit - Not that men should get a pass for being unfaithful. It is a broken promise in a marriage and a painful one. I just disagree with you that if it happens once, the marriage should end. Not necessarily.
Click to expand...


Ego..))) I don't think guys like to share.. it's competitive nature.. hell, if we liked to share we probably wouldn't get married in the first place..

innate desire for variety..I'm not sure if it's just the Guys... I'm thinking


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## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Making it? Ask 10 people you'll probably get five different answers ranging from pure possesiveness to helping their partner feel secure - and the rest blank stares because they never thought about why. Believing it? Because they want to, even in situations where it's probably not realistic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's those that "never thought about why" that concerns me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...


People who don't think about what they are doing or why they are doing it always bother me.


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## Shadow

Barb said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know...is this something they have agreed to as a couple?  Or is one partner sneaking around behind the others back?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither. It is an issue that has not and cannot be addressed. There are only two choices, deprivation or deception. Which would you choose?
Click to expand...


Depends on the person I guess.  If I loved them,I could be celibate.  Who is to say if the person found another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually...they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.


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## LuckyDan

Shadow said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know...is this something they have agreed to as a couple? Or is one partner sneaking around behind the others back?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither. It is an issue that has not and cannot be addressed. There are only two choices, deprivation or deception. Which would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depends on the person I guess. If I loved them,I could be celibate. Who is to say if the person found *another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually..*.they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.
Click to expand...

 
Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?

If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.


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## dilloduck

Shadow said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know...is this something they have agreed to as a couple?  Or is one partner sneaking around behind the others back?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither. It is an issue that has not and cannot be addressed. There are only two choices, deprivation or deception. Which would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depends on the person I guess.  If I loved them,I could be celibate.  Who is to say if the person found another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually...they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.
Click to expand...


so celibacy would be a choice that would be easy for you to make?


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## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's those that "never thought about why" that concerns me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People who don't think about what they are doing or why they are doing it always bother me.
Click to expand...

 
Alright. I just thought it odd that you would be concerned about whether someone to whom you are not married can give a reason as to why they wanted to be part of a monogamous relationship.

And this gets down to why anyone would marry, and the very value of marriage. For me, it's family. If I want to be a father, I'm gonna need a woman who wants to be a mother. And I believe that if you're gonna do the family thing right, the parents should be loving, faithful and, yes, married. 

Divorce is very painful for children, and that's another reason why adultery should not automatically lead to a split. 

Marriage wiithout kids has it's advantages, too. Not everyone wants to date all their life. The series of meeting, dating, breaking-up, getting over, then starting again becomes tiresome for some. Marriage ends that.


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## Barb

Shadow said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know...is this something they have agreed to as a couple?  Or is one partner sneaking around behind the others back?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither. It is an issue that has not and cannot be addressed. There are only two choices, deprivation or deception. Which would you choose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depends on the person I guess.  If I loved them,I could be celibate.  Who is to say if the person found another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually...they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.
Click to expand...


Forever? Forever is a long time. If a person had a history with someone, they'd be averse to throwing that someone away, especially if the damage, both immediate and collateral (family stability) would be unforgivable and unforgiven. Life is far from simple, and doing the right thing can have extremely unhealthy results for those doing the right thing. So who gets to live in a black and white world, and who is required to die?


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## goldcatt

LuckyDan said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither. It is an issue that has not and cannot be addressed. There are only two choices, deprivation or deception. Which would you choose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the person I guess. If I loved them,I could be celibate. Who is to say if the person found *another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually..*.they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?
> 
> If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.
Click to expand...


And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.


----------



## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People who don't think about what they are doing or why they are doing it always bother me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Alright. I just thought it odd that you would be concerned about whether someone to whom you are not married can give a reason as to why they wanted to be part of a monogamous relationship.
> 
> And this gets down to why anyone would marry, and the very value of marriage. For me, it's family. If I want to be a father, I'm gonna need a woman who wants to be a mother. And I believe that if you're gonna do the family thing right, the parents should be loving, faithful and, yes, married.
> 
> Divorce is very painful for children, and that's another reason why adultery should not automatically lead to a split.
> 
> Marriage wiithout kids has it's advantages, too. Not everyone wants to date all their life. The series of meeting, dating, breaking-up, getting over, then starting again becomes tiresome for some. Marriage ends that.
Click to expand...


and starts a whole new puzzling relationship to work out.
My question is should fidelity be the thing that it all hinges on and if it is--how did we get there when other countries didn't ?


----------



## Shadow

dilloduck said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither. It is an issue that has not and cannot be addressed. There are only two choices, deprivation or deception. Which would you choose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the person I guess.  If I loved them,I could be celibate.  Who is to say if the person found another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually...they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so celibacy would be a choice that would be easy for you to make?
Click to expand...


Yes,I could make that choice. Mainly because if I was to comit myself to someone, it would have to be based on a lot of things besides just the sexual aspects of the relationship.


----------



## dilloduck

Shadow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the person I guess.  If I loved them,I could be celibate.  Who is to say if the person found another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually...they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so celibacy would be a choice that would be easy for you to make?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes,I could make that choice. Mainly because if I was to comit myself to someone, it would have to be based on a lot of things besides just the sexual aspects of the relationship.
Click to expand...


so you would be sacrificing one need to preserve another ?


----------



## SpidermanTuba

LuckyDan said:


> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him?



Yes. If he's had one weak moment he will have others.


----------



## LuckyDan

goldcatt said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the person I guess. If I loved them,I could be celibate. Who is to say if the person found *another lover that met their needs both emotionally and sexually..*.they wouldn't leave anyway. Especially if they were feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in the relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?
> 
> If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
Click to expand...

 
Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.

In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.


----------



## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?
> 
> If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
Click to expand...


SOOOO  are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?


----------



## Cuyo

Meh.  There's full-blown swingers, and there's Amish.  And everything in between.  It's a matter of preference and trust, case-by-case.


----------



## Shadow

dilloduck said:


> Shadow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> so celibacy would be a choice that would be easy for you to make?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes,I could make that choice. Mainly because if I was to comit myself to someone, it would have to be based on a lot of things besides just the sexual aspects of the relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you would be sacrificing one need to preserve another ?
Click to expand...


Preserve what other need?  If I am committed emotionally to a person (which I would have to be,or we wouldn't be together) I wouldn't cheat...I doubt I would even think about cheating to be honest. I have been around enough to know that sex without some kind of emotional desire or love involved...isn't all that fulfilling to me.


----------



## Lumpy 1

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SOOOO  are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
Click to expand...


I think for a good marriage to last and grow emotionally the prime ingredient is trust for both parties. I thing the vows start you on the road of trusting each other in good and bad times..


----------



## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SOOOO are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
Click to expand...

 
_Vow_s give a woman no emotional security. A husband who keeps them and lives by them does, provided he remains attentive to her, beyond simply being faithful.


----------



## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOOOO are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Vow_s give a woman no emotional security. A husband who keeps them and lives by them does, provided he remains attentive to her, beyond simply being faithful.
Click to expand...


Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?


----------



## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOOOO are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vow_s give a woman no emotional security. A husband who keeps them and lives by them does, provided he remains attentive to her, beyond simply being faithful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
Click to expand...

 
A woman who feels ignored by her husband -be he faithful and benign in all respects, will be easy to pull.


----------



## goldcatt

LuckyDan said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?
> 
> If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
Click to expand...


That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.


----------



## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Vow_s give a woman no emotional security. A husband who keeps them and lives by them does, provided he remains attentive to her, beyond simply being faithful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A woman who feels ignored by her husband -be he faithful and benign in all respects, will be easy to pull.
Click to expand...


Is he ignoring her too much or is she too needy ?  Having your feelings hurt is no better of an excuse as wanting variety.


----------



## Barb

LuckyDan said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?
> 
> If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
Click to expand...


Honestly, I disagree. 
Sex is an emotional need. And the need for sex is based in an emotional impulse.


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.



So, Dan, if your spouse/partner/lover decided to have sex with someone else you would forgive her because ........... she still loves you, you still love her, etc.  My question is this?  If a relationship is rock solid and doing well, why would either partner even remotely think about having sex with someone else?  So, for me, when one person cheats it is usually just a symptom of some other underlying problem in the relationship.


----------



## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.
Click to expand...


Wiring----it doesn't make sense to a man either. Why do some feel so shitty about their behavior ?


----------



## LuckyDan

goldcatt said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.
Click to expand...

 
Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it. 

But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
Click to expand...


Because to some people their word is their honor.


----------



## dilloduck

LuckyDan said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
Click to expand...


Well that's the way a lot of people try to portray a male who cheats but a lot of people don't appreciate the libido in some men either.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which begs the question----why does ANYONE make this kind of a promise or believe it for that matter ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because to some people their word is their honor.
Click to expand...


Which is why vows to do things should be thought out VERY CAREFULLY.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Guys and I'm guessing Gals are funny in a way.. Rather than simply accepting the total commitment to another they hold back just a little piece, their individuality. I think they feel if they lose that they've lost themselves. So they go around with that little piece and explore and imagine all the possibilities that they feel they may be missing out on.

The beautiful Gal with the big knockers, the secretary with the nice ass... the young lady all fresh and pure..the offers of delicious pleasure their not getting at home. etc  (the Gals have to make up their own list.)

Some Guys bring that energy, ego boost, imagination.. etc, home to their wives.. others stray and if their emotionally equipped suffer the guilt..

There's more to this of course..


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
Click to expand...


So you are saying that men are incapable of controlling themselves ... that their word to another individual gets thrown under the bus in the name  of lust and he can just shrug it off as the male's sexual nature?


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's the way a lot of people try to portray a male who cheats but a lot of people don't appreciate the libido in some men either.
Click to expand...


Or in some women. Lust isn't exclusively male, you know.


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, Dan, if your spouse/partner/lover decided to have sex with someone else you would forgive her because ........... she still loves you, you still love her, etc. My question is this? If a relationship is rock solid and doing well, why would either partner even remotely think about having sex with someone else? So, for me, when one person cheats it is usually just a symptom of some other underlying problem in the relationship.
Click to expand...

 
Well, this is not the place for true confessions, but I would assume that if Mrs LD had an affair it is because she fell in love with the guy, in which case my forgiveness wouldn't matter. She would be gone.

But then, there is such a thing as "The Revenge Affair." If I believed she still loved me? Yes, keeping my family in tact is worth forgiving it.  

Why would either partner consider an affair if the relationship is solid and doing well?? Most wouldn't, but for some men the need for variety is strong. 

I would argue that part of the reason why your hypothetical relationship is stoing is because the woman understands the male's sexuality, caters to it, and lt's him know she appreciates his faithfulness.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are saying that men are incapable of controlling themselves ... that their word to another individual gets thrown under the bus in the name  of lust and he can just shrug it off as the male's sexual nature?
Click to expand...


no--in fact sometimes the guilt can haunt him forever.


----------



## PatekPhilippe

One must understand the inner machinations of our inherent instincts.  Man was never meant to be with one woman.  To insure the survival of dominant male genes in the species males had many partners.  With the advent of civilization and religion this behavior was seen as "bad".  Personally speaking I have been on both sides of that fence as well.  I have such a love for a woman's body, the different textures, the scents, the reactions to touch and stimulation, are all absolutely fascinating to me...... many times it's difficult to control myself...especially where I am right now.


----------



## LuckyDan

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's the way a lot of people try to portray a male who cheats but a lot of people don't appreciate the libido in some men either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or in some women. Lust isn't exclusively male, you know.
Click to expand...

 
I know. Again, I'm speaking generally. I'm well aware that some women have many, many lovers, and are faithful to none. 

But I do not believe it's simply lust with them. I think there are, forgive me, esteem and worth issues for some, maybe Daddy issues for others. The result is the same - sex without love - even if the motivation isn't.


----------



## Lumpy 1

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's the way a lot of people try to portray a male who cheats but a lot of people don't appreciate the libido in some men either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or in some women. Lust isn't exclusively male, you know.
Click to expand...


.. I can't help but want to hear more about this lust you speak of.. 

( strictly from an inspirational perspective of course..


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOOOO are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vow_s give a woman no emotional security. A husband who keeps them and lives by them does, provided he remains attentive to her, beyond simply being faithful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
Click to expand...


Disagree ..... vows do not provide emotional security, or the "promise" of emotional security.  How a man treats a woman is what provides the emotional security, both before and after the vows.  

I did not feel any more secure in my relationship with my husband after we said vows than I did before.


----------



## Barb

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Vow_s give a woman no emotional security. A husband who keeps them and lives by them does, provided he remains attentive to her, beyond simply being faithful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A woman who feels ignored by her husband -be he faithful and benign in all respects, will be easy to pull.
Click to expand...


That's kind of an over generalization. 
For four years, plenty of opportunity, and no interest.
BAM, walking down the street one day, and every system wakes up to full attention. 
One person was responsible for that, completely oblivious, and so out of the question that it defies reason. 
If there is a higher being, it has a wholly inappropriate sense of humor.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, Dan, if your spouse/partner/lover decided to have sex with someone else you would forgive her because ........... she still loves you, you still love her, etc.  My question is this?  If a relationship is rock solid and doing well, why would either partner even remotely think about having sex with someone else?  So, for me, when one person cheats it is usually just a symptom of some other underlying problem in the relationship.
Click to expand...


I think a lot of people feel that way and women will even question themselves as to their desirabilitly and adequacy. Sometimes it's just the wiring.


----------



## goldcatt

Lumpy 1 said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's the way a lot of people try to portray a male who cheats but a lot of people don't appreciate the libido in some men either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or in some women. Lust isn't exclusively male, you know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .. I can't help but want to hear more about this lust you speak of..
> 
> ( strictly from an inspirational perspective of course..
Click to expand...


If you don't already know about it maybe it's time to turn off the computer and go see what the better half is up to.


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> That seems to be the conventional wisdom. It's just hard to understand why a man would risk something valuable for nothing but physical gratification, it's irrational. If the realtionship isn't valuable in the first place or there's an emotional need also being met it at least makes more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are saying that men are incapable of controlling themselves ... that their word to another individual gets thrown under the bus in the name of lust and he can just shrug it off as the male's sexual nature?
Click to expand...

 
Sorry, I didin't see this one before. 

No, I do not say men are incapable of controllinjg themselves. I'm saying it is more difficult for them to battle lust, and women who recognize this and value it are themselves to be prized.


----------



## kurtsprincess

PatekPhilippe said:


> One must understand the inner machinations of our inherent instincts.  Man was never meant to be with one woman.  To insure the survival of dominant male genes in the species males had many partners.  With the advent of civilization and religion this behavior was seen as "bad".  Personally speaking I have been on both sides of that fence as well.  I have such a love for a woman's body, the different textures, the scents, the reactions to touch and stimulation, are all absolutely fascinating to me...... many times it's difficult to control myself...especially where I am right now.



If you know this about yourself, then why would you ever limit yourself to just one.  Stay out of a committed relationship so you are setting someone else to be hurt because you love the "different textures, scents, reactions, etc.".  Let your lovers know that you are incapable of fidelity.  

PS - women get bored too.


----------



## LuckyDan

Barb said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman who feels ignored by her husband -be he faithful and benign in all respects, will be easy to pull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's kind of an over generalization.
> For four years, plenty of opportunity, and no interest.
> BAM, walking down the street one day, and every system wakes up to full attention.
> One person was responsible for that, completely oblivious, and so out of the question that it defies reason.
> If there is a higher being, it has a wholly inappropriate sense of humor.
Click to expand...

 
It is a generalization, and was meant as something of a pun, but no, not necessarily BAM! She may take a little work.


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is irrational, but the male's sexual nature is not the least bit complicated. It's simply a matter of lust, a lack of self-control, and thinking he'll get away with it.
> 
> But, yes, as Lumpy said in the OP. Stupid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that men are incapable of controlling themselves ... that their word to another individual gets thrown under the bus in the name of lust and he can just shrug it off as the male's sexual nature?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didin't see this one before.
> 
> No, I do not say men are incapable of controllinjg themselves. I'm saying it is more difficult for them to battle lust, and women who recognize this and value it are themselves to be prized.
Click to expand...


What makes you think it's less difficult for women to battle lust?  How do you think we are able to control it and men are not?


----------



## dilloduck

Barb said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman who feels ignored by her husband -be he faithful and benign in all respects, will be easy to pull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's kind of an over generalization.
> For four years, plenty of opportunity, and no interest.
> BAM, walking down the street one day, and every system wakes up to full attention.
> One person was responsible for that, completely oblivious, and so out of the question that it defies reason.
> If there is a higher being, it has a wholly inappropriate sense of humor.
Click to expand...


  absolutely no doubt about it !


----------



## Amanda

Lumpy 1 said:


> Cheating .. defined as having sex, of any kind with someone other than your lover.
> 
> My point of few is that there is no good excuse for it.
> 
> Yet the question always comes down to this..
> 
> "Should we split up or stay together"
> 
> My answer for the victim .. "split up, I doubt you'll get over it but I'll support you either way"
> 
> My answer for the cheater.."Dumb Ass"



Isn't it only cheating if you try to do it without them knowing about it?


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, Dan, if your spouse/partner/lover decided to have sex with someone else you would forgive her because ........... she still loves you, you still love her, etc.  My question is this?  If a relationship is rock solid and doing well, why would either partner even remotely think about having sex with someone else?  So, for me, when one person cheats it is usually just a symptom of some other underlying problem in the relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think a lot of people feel that way and women will even question themselves as to their desirabilitly and adequacy. Sometimes it's just the wiring.
Click to expand...


I think there's a lot to the desirability and adequacy part. If what they already had was desirable, valuable and at least adequate, why would men feel the need to go elsewhere? Cheating seems like a sort of rejection and a statement about the worth maybe not of the partner, but definitely the relationship. Which gets interpreted personally.


----------



## Lumpy 1

goldcatt said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or in some women. Lust isn't exclusively male, you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. I can't help but want to hear more about this lust you speak of..
> 
> ( strictly from an inspirational perspective of course..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you don't already know about it maybe it's time to turn off the computer and go see what the better half is up to.
Click to expand...


Well played...the devil made me do it...

Although.. a little extra inspiration couldn't hurt..


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just get the hell out, huh? One and done?
> 
> Your thread title says "lover," not "spouse." Do you draw a distinction? I mean, two single people can easily choose to split over many different things. That's the beauty of being single.
> 
> Marrieds have to be a little more flexible. Then there's the male-female difference. Men can and often do have sex utterly devoid of any emotion or feeling with their partner. Women tend to be more emotionally invested before becoming a lover or spouse. (I know there are many who don't, but I'm speaking generally.)
> 
> If a husband has a weak moment, would you advise the wife to leave him? He may still love her, and she him, and their marriage may still be perfectly salvageable. I'd be careful about dishing out that kind of advice so quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, Dan, if your spouse/partner/lover decided to have sex with someone else you would forgive her because ........... she still loves you, you still love her, etc.  My question is this?  If a relationship is rock solid and doing well, why would either partner even remotely think about having sex with someone else?  So, for me, when one person cheats it is usually just a symptom of some other underlying problem in the relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think a lot of people feel that way and women will even question themselves as to their desirabilitly and adequacy. Sometimes it's just the wiring.
Click to expand...


My first husband had an affair and I didn't question myself or my desirability.  I'm a very desirable woman .... so I truly believe he had an affair because he is an adrenaline junkie.  He got off on the riskiness of it.  So, I decided I didn't want to play his game and left him.


----------



## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Dan, if your spouse/partner/lover decided to have sex with someone else you would forgive her because ........... she still loves you, you still love her, etc.  My question is this?  If a relationship is rock solid and doing well, why would either partner even remotely think about having sex with someone else?  So, for me, when one person cheats it is usually just a symptom of some other underlying problem in the relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of people feel that way and women will even question themselves as to their desirabilitly and adequacy. Sometimes it's just the wiring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think there's a lot to the desirability and adequacy part. If what they already had was desirable, valuable and at least adequate, why would men feel the need to go elsewhere? Cheating seems like a sort of rejection and a statement about the worth maybe not of the partner, but definitely the relationship. Which gets interpreted personally.
Click to expand...


again-----wiring. Discount the power of chemistry if you wish but pushing this all off on men being stupid or weak won't give you an answer.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Amanda said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheating .. defined as having sex, of any kind with someone other than your lover.
> 
> My point of few is that there is no good excuse for it.
> 
> Yet the question always comes down to this..
> 
> "Should we split up or stay together"
> 
> My answer for the victim .. "split up, I doubt you'll get over it but I'll support you either way"
> 
> My answer for the cheater.."Dumb Ass"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it only cheating if you try to do it without them knowing about it?
Click to expand...


Gads... you really want to confuse the issue don't you?


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Dan, if your spouse/partner/lover decided to have sex with someone else you would forgive her because ........... she still loves you, you still love her, etc.  My question is this?  If a relationship is rock solid and doing well, why would either partner even remotely think about having sex with someone else?  So, for me, when one person cheats it is usually just a symptom of some other underlying problem in the relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of people feel that way and women will even question themselves as to their desirabilitly and adequacy. Sometimes it's just the wiring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My first husband had an affair and I didn't question myself or my desirability.  I'm a very desirable woman .... so I truly believe he had an affair because he is an adrenaline junkie.  He got off on the riskiness of it.  So, I decided I didn't want to play his game and left him.
Click to expand...


Which is obviously one solution. It probably would have been a bit more difficult after 10 years of marriage and three kids, a house, in-laws etc etc.


----------



## PatekPhilippe

kurtsprincess said:


> PatekPhilippe said:
> 
> 
> 
> One must understand the inner machinations of our inherent instincts.  Man was never meant to be with one woman.  To insure the survival of dominant male genes in the species males had many partners.  With the advent of civilization and religion this behavior was seen as "bad".  Personally speaking I have been on both sides of that fence as well.  I have such a love for a woman's body, the different textures, the scents, the reactions to touch and stimulation, are all absolutely fascinating to me...... many times it's difficult to control myself...especially where I am right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you know this about yourself, then why would you ever limit yourself to just one.  Stay out of a committed relationship so you are setting someone else to be hurt because you love the "different textures, scents, reactions, etc.".  Let your lovers know that you are incapable of fidelity.
> 
> PS - women get bored too.
Click to expand...


Of course they do...when that happens...they move on as well.

and since you don't know a single thing about any relationship I've been in... how can you tell me what to do?  Don't judge me until you've walked in my shoes.


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying that men are incapable of controlling themselves ... that their word to another individual gets thrown under the bus in the name of lust and he can just shrug it off as the male's sexual nature?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didin't see this one before.
> 
> No, I do not say men are incapable of controllinjg themselves. I'm saying it is more difficult for them to battle lust, and women who recognize this and value it are themselves to be prized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think it's less difficult for women to battle lust? How do you think we are able to control it and men are not?
Click to expand...

 
You believe it's the same? No difference?

Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?


----------



## kurtsprincess

Lumpy 1 said:


> Guys and I'm guessing Gals are funny in a way.. Rather than simply accepting the total commitment to another they hold back just a little piece, their individuality. I think they feel if they lose that they've lost themselves. So they go around with that little piece and explore and imagine all the possibilities that they feel they may be missing out on.
> 
> The beautiful Gal with the big knockers, the secretary with the nice ass... the young lady all fresh and pure..the offers of delicious pleasure their not getting at home. etc  (the Gals have to make up their own list.)
> 
> Some Guys bring that energy, ego boost, imagination.. etc, home to their wives.. others stray and if their emotionally equipped suffer the guilt..
> 
> There's more to this of course..



You it the nail on the head Lumpy......some guys bring that energy home to their wives and are able to uphold their vows.  I also think that being in a committed relationship takes more work than the cheating.  A man who cheats knows that he's cheating and doesn't have to put anything into the relationship....and because he's cheating he can blame inadequacies on his committed relationship and then not put any energy into that either.  It's a lazy man's way out of exerting self-control and focusing his energies in one direction.


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didin't see this one before.
> 
> No, I do not say men are incapable of controllinjg themselves. I'm saying it is more difficult for them to battle lust, and women who recognize this and value it are themselves to be prized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think it's less difficult for women to battle lust? How do you think we are able to control it and men are not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Edit: Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
Click to expand...


Maybe that's why men are able to use the phrase "it's harder for men to control themselves" because there is so much media focus on naked women.  I wonder how soon women would be using that phrase if media were to put the same amount of focus on naked men.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys and I'm guessing Gals are funny in a way.. Rather than simply accepting the total commitment to another they hold back just a little piece, their individuality. I think they feel if they lose that they've lost themselves. So they go around with that little piece and explore and imagine all the possibilities that they feel they may be missing out on.
> 
> The beautiful Gal with the big knockers, the secretary with the nice ass... the young lady all fresh and pure..the offers of delicious pleasure their not getting at home. etc  (the Gals have to make up their own list.)
> 
> Some Guys bring that energy, ego boost, imagination.. etc, home to their wives.. others stray and if their emotionally equipped suffer the guilt..
> 
> There's more to this of course..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You it the nail on the head Lumpy......some guys bring that energy home to their wives and are able to uphold their vows.  I also think that being in a committed relationship takes more work than the cheating.  A man who cheats knows that he's cheating and doesn't have to put anything into the relationship....and because he's cheating he can blame inadequacies on his committed relationship and then not put any energy into that either.  It's a lazy man's way out of exerting self-control and focusing his energies in one direction.
Click to expand...


So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?


----------



## kurtsprincess

PatekPhilippe said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PatekPhilippe said:
> 
> 
> 
> One must understand the inner machinations of our inherent instincts.  Man was never meant to be with one woman.  To insure the survival of dominant male genes in the species males had many partners.  With the advent of civilization and religion this behavior was seen as "bad".  *Personally speaking I have been on both sides of that fence as well.  I have such a love for a woman's body, the different textures, the scents, the reactions to touch and stimulation, are all absolutely fascinating to me...... many times it's difficult to control myself...especially where I am right now*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you know this about yourself, then why would you ever limit yourself to just one.  Stay out of a committed relationship so you are setting someone else to be hurt because you love the "different textures, scents, reactions, etc.".  Let your lovers know that you are incapable of fidelity.
> 
> PS - women get bored too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they do...when that happens...they move on as well.
> 
> and since you don't know a single thing about any relationship I've been in... how can you tell me what to do?  Don't judge me until you've walked in my shoes.
Click to expand...


I only know what you've revealed about yourself here.  I made my statement based upon what you said.......and that's my opinion about someone who says they find it difficult to control themselves.  

If I offended you I apologize.


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of people feel that way and women will even question themselves as to their desirabilitly and adequacy. Sometimes it's just the wiring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think there's a lot to the desirability and adequacy part. If what they already had was desirable, valuable and at least adequate, why would men feel the need to go elsewhere? Cheating seems like a sort of rejection and a statement about the worth maybe not of the partner, but definitely the relationship. Which gets interpreted personally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> again-----wiring. Discount the power of chemistry if you wish but pushing this all off on men being stupid or weak won't give you an answer.
Click to expand...


Who said anything about men being stupid or weak? I'm actually saying the opposite if you think about it. It's not just some impulse for physical gratification they're too weak to resist. There has to be something else, some reason why they don't want to resist. The same as women, although the reason may be different.


----------



## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys and I'm guessing Gals are funny in a way.. Rather than simply accepting the total commitment to another they hold back just a little piece, their individuality. I think they feel if they lose that they've lost themselves. So they go around with that little piece and explore and imagine all the possibilities that they feel they may be missing out on.
> 
> The beautiful Gal with the big knockers, the secretary with the nice ass... the young lady all fresh and pure..the offers of delicious pleasure their not getting at home. etc (the Gals have to make up their own list.)
> 
> Some Guys bring that energy, ego boost, imagination.. etc, home to their wives.. others stray and if their emotionally equipped suffer the guilt..
> 
> There's more to this of course..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You it the nail on the head Lumpy......some guys bring that energy home to their wives and are able to uphold their vows. I also think that being in a committed relationship takes more work than the cheating. A man who cheats knows that he's cheating and doesn't have to put anything into the relationship....and because he's cheating he can blame inadequacies on his committed relationship and then not put any energy into that either. It's a lazy man's way out of exerting self-control and focusing his energies in one direction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?
Click to expand...

 
Yeah, I caught that, too. Are lazy guys up to much? Do they even attract committed partners to cheat on?


----------



## Shadow

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOOOO are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vow_s give a woman no emotional security. A husband who keeps them and lives by them does, provided he remains attentive to her, beyond simply being faithful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
Click to expand...


If a woman is accusing a man of cheating without evidence,then trust is missing in the relationship between them.  Rather than her just seeking therapy,both partners may need to work on this aspect of their relationship.

Could be she is reacting to how you are responding to her,and whether or not that makes her feel secure in the relationship. Could be communication between partners is lacking.


----------



## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think there's a lot to the desirability and adequacy part. If what they already had was desirable, valuable and at least adequate, why would men feel the need to go elsewhere? Cheating seems like a sort of rejection and a statement about the worth maybe not of the partner, but definitely the relationship. Which gets interpreted personally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> again-----wiring. Discount the power of chemistry if you wish but pushing this all off on men being stupid or weak won't give you an answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who said anything about men being stupid or weak? I'm actually saying the opposite if you think about it. It's not just some impulse for physical gratification they're too weak to resist. There has to be something else, some reason why they don't want to resist. The same as women, although the reson may be different.
Click to expand...


It does ?  Really---now men cheat just for grins ??  They COULD resist but they choose not to ?


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys and I'm guessing Gals are funny in a way.. Rather than simply accepting the total commitment to another they hold back just a little piece, their individuality. I think they feel if they lose that they've lost themselves. So they go around with that little piece and explore and imagine all the possibilities that they feel they may be missing out on.
> 
> The beautiful Gal with the big knockers, the secretary with the nice ass... the young lady all fresh and pure..the offers of delicious pleasure their not getting at home. etc  (the Gals have to make up their own list.)
> 
> Some Guys bring that energy, ego boost, imagination.. etc, home to their wives.. others stray and if their emotionally equipped suffer the guilt..
> 
> There's more to this of course..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You it the nail on the head Lumpy......some guys bring that energy home to their wives and are able to uphold their vows.  I also think that being in a committed relationship takes more work than the cheating.  A man who cheats knows that he's cheating and doesn't have to put anything into the relationship....and because he's cheating he can blame inadequacies on his committed relationship and then not put any energy into that either.  It's a lazy man's way out of exerting self-control and focusing his energies in one direction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?
Click to expand...


Possibly .... there could be other reasons, like my ex.  He was an adrenaline junkie (raced cars, motorcycles, etc.) and liked the riskiness.  Do you have a list that you want to share?


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> You it the nail on the head Lumpy......some guys bring that energy home to their wives and are able to uphold their vows. I also think that being in a committed relationship takes more work than the cheating. A man who cheats knows that he's cheating and doesn't have to put anything into the relationship....and because he's cheating he can blame inadequacies on his committed relationship and then not put any energy into that either. It's a lazy man's way out of exerting self-control and focusing his energies in one direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I caught that, too. Are lazy guys up to much? Do they even attract committed partners to cheat on?
Click to expand...


It's not physical laziness ... it's emotional laziness.


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> again-----wiring. Discount the power of chemistry if you wish but pushing this all off on men being stupid or weak won't give you an answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about men being stupid or weak? I'm actually saying the opposite if you think about it. It's not just some impulse for physical gratification they're too weak to resist. There has to be something else, some reason why they don't want to resist. The same as women, although the reson may be different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does ?  Really---now men cheat just for grins ??  They COULD resist but they choose not to ?
Click to expand...


Isn't that how cheating happens, for both men and women? Sure they could resist, but they don't. Why?


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think it's less difficult for women to battle lust? How do you think we are able to control it and men are not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Edit: Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why men are able to use the phrase "it's harder for men to control themselves" because there is so much media focus on naked women. I wonder how soon women would be using that phrase if media were to put the same amount of focus on naked men.
Click to expand...

 
I'm not talking about "media focus." I'm talking about making money in porn. 

Men consume pix of naked girls voraciously, because they are lustful. If women are just as lustful, why aren't they consuming the same amount of male pornography? 

And I can't help but wonder how many male members (pardon me) have given you av rep so far.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> You it the nail on the head Lumpy......some guys bring that energy home to their wives and are able to uphold their vows.  I also think that being in a committed relationship takes more work than the cheating.  A man who cheats knows that he's cheating and doesn't have to put anything into the relationship....and because he's cheating he can blame inadequacies on his committed relationship and then not put any energy into that either.  It's a lazy man's way out of exerting self-control and focusing his energies in one direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Possibly .... there could be other reasons, like my ex.  He was an adrenaline junkie (raced cars, motorcycles, etc.) and liked the riskiness.  Do you have a list that you want to share?
Click to expand...


List of what?  We could also be asking why it's so difficult for a woman to forgive ?  Are they to weak, lazy or stupid ?


----------



## PatekPhilippe

kurtsprincess said:


> PatekPhilippe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you know this about yourself, then why would you ever limit yourself to just one.  Stay out of a committed relationship so you are setting someone else to be hurt because you love the "different textures, scents, reactions, etc.".  Let your lovers know that you are incapable of fidelity.
> 
> PS - women get bored too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they do...when that happens...they move on as well.
> 
> and since you don't know a single thing about any relationship I've been in... how can you tell me what to do?  Don't judge me until you've walked in my shoes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I only know what you've revealed about yourself here.  I made my statement based upon what you said.......and that's my opinion about someone who says they find it difficult to control themselves.
> 
> If I offended you I apologize.
Click to expand...


Thanks.....I'm not weak, nor stupid or lazy.  Sometimes I'm impulsive to a fault...but I wouldn't trade my life for anything.


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I caught that, too. Are lazy guys up to much? Do they even attract committed partners to cheat on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not physical laziness ... it's emotional laziness.
Click to expand...

 
I'm not sure what "emotional laziness" is, if not an absence of emotion. And in it's place, what? Lust?


----------



## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about men being stupid or weak? I'm actually saying the opposite if you think about it. It's not just some impulse for physical gratification they're too weak to resist. There has to be something else, some reason why they don't want to resist. The same as women, although the reson may be different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does ?  Really---now men cheat just for grins ??  They COULD resist but they choose not to ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't that how cheating happens, for both men and women? Sure they could resist, but they don't. Why?
Click to expand...


I think a combination of a lot of things but if we insist on ruling out wiring we are in severe denial.


----------



## Lumpy 1

kurtsprincess said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys and I'm guessing Gals are funny in a way.. Rather than simply accepting the total commitment to another they hold back just a little piece, their individuality. I think they feel if they lose that they've lost themselves. So they go around with that little piece and explore and imagine all the possibilities that they feel they may be missing out on.
> 
> The beautiful Gal with the big knockers, the secretary with the nice ass... the young lady all fresh and pure..the offers of delicious pleasure their not getting at home. etc  (the Gals have to make up their own list.)
> 
> Some Guys bring that energy, ego boost, imagination.. etc, home to their wives.. others stray and if their emotionally equipped suffer the guilt..
> 
> There's more to this of course..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You it the nail on the head Lumpy......some guys bring that energy home to their wives and are able to uphold their vows.  I also think that being in a committed relationship takes more work than the cheating.  A man who cheats knows that he's cheating and doesn't have to put anything into the relationship....and because he's cheating he can blame inadequacies on his committed relationship and then not put any energy into that either.  It's a lazy man's way out of exerting self-control and focusing his energies in one direction.
Click to expand...


Personally.. I find it rather easy to be in a committed relationship.. I imagine I would find it  much more difficult covering for lies, times unaccounted for and that whole guilt thing would suck..


----------



## PatekPhilippe

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about men being stupid or weak? I'm actually saying the opposite if you think about it. It's not just some impulse for physical gratification they're too weak to resist. There has to be something else, some reason why they don't want to resist. The same as women, although the reson may be different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does ?  Really---now men cheat just for grins ??  They COULD resist but they choose not to ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't that how cheating happens, for both men and women? Sure they could resist, but they don't. Why?
Click to expand...


I'm not buying that....I smile at women every day....that doesn't constitute a sexual relationship.


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does ?  Really---now men cheat just for grins ??  They COULD resist but they choose not to ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that how cheating happens, for both men and women? Sure they could resist, but they don't. Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think a combination of a lot of things but if we insist on ruling out wiring we are in severe denial.
Click to expand...


I'm not going to bother denying there are differences in the wiring, and not just sexually. I'm sure the reasoning is different. But I highly doubt either men or women cheat just because they can, or because they saw a nice ass. There's too much at stake, there has to be something else - some other need that needs to be met, or a lack of value in the relationship they're risking.


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Edit: Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why men are able to use the phrase "it's harder for men to control themselves" because there is so much media focus on naked women. I wonder how soon women would be using that phrase if media were to put the same amount of focus on naked men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about "media focus." I'm talking about making money in porn.
> 
> Men consume pix of naked girls voraciously, because they are lustful. If women are just as lustful, why aren't they consuming the same amount of male pornography?
> 
> And I can't help but wonder how many male members (pardon me) have given you av rep so far.
Click to expand...


Perhaps women are more attracted to female porn....

And how is my rep relevant?


----------



## goldcatt

PatekPhilippe said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does ?  Really---now men cheat just for grins ??  They COULD resist but they choose not to ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that how cheating happens, for both men and women? Sure they could resist, but they don't. Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not buying that....I smile at women every day....that doesn't constitute a sexual relationship.
Click to expand...


I was under the impression we all know "cheating" means sex. If smiling at somebody is cheating, boy would I be in big trouble.


----------



## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that how cheating happens, for both men and women? Sure they could resist, but they don't. Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a combination of a lot of things but if we insist on ruling out wiring we are in severe denial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not going to bother denying there are differences in the wiring, and not just sexually. I'm sure the reasoning is different. But I highly doubt either men or women cheat just because they can, or because they saw a nice ass. There's too much at stake, there has to be something else - some other need that needs to be met, or a lack of value in the relationship they're risking.
Click to expand...


Why does there have to be something other than wiring involved ?


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why men are able to use the phrase "it's harder for men to control themselves" because there is so much media focus on naked women. I wonder how soon women would be using that phrase if media were to put the same amount of focus on naked men.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about "media focus." I'm talking about making money in porn.
> 
> Men consume pix of naked girls voraciously, because they are lustful. If women are just as lustful, why aren't they consuming the same amount of male pornography?
> 
> And I can't help but wonder how many male members (pardon me) have given you av rep so far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps women are more attracted to female porn....
> 
> And how is my rep relevant?
Click to expand...


because it's erotic and we're discussing sex


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly .... there could be other reasons, like my ex.  He was an adrenaline junkie (raced cars, motorcycles, etc.) and liked the riskiness.  Do you have a list that you want to share?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> List of what?  We could also be asking why it's so difficult for a woman to forgive ?  Are they to weak, lazy or stupid ?
Click to expand...


Who says she doesn't forgive him for his weakness?  Just because a woman leaves her husband because he broke her vows doesn't mean she didn't forgive him.  But if he broke his vow in this instance, which is a very important vow, then who's to say he won't fail her in lesser things.

A man who keeps his vow shows that he has a value system.


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a combination of a lot of things but if we insist on ruling out wiring we are in severe denial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to bother denying there are differences in the wiring, and not just sexually. I'm sure the reasoning is different. But I highly doubt either men or women cheat just because they can, or because they saw a nice ass. There's too much at stake, there has to be something else - some other need that needs to be met, or a lack of value in the relationship they're risking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does there have to be something other than wiring involved ?
Click to expand...


Because that's just saying "Men can't help it, we were born this way, we can't resist". Which is bull, men are no more weak or powerless over their hormones than women. Of the two of us, if you think about it you're the one who's actually arguing men are inherently weak. Can anybody, male or female, have a weak moment? Sure. But I still say there has to be something else driving that decision.


----------



## Amanda

Lumpy 1 said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheating .. defined as having sex, of any kind with someone other than your lover.
> 
> My point of few is that there is no good excuse for it.
> 
> Yet the question always comes down to this..
> 
> "Should we split up or stay together"
> 
> My answer for the victim .. "split up, I doubt you'll get over it but I'll support you either way"
> 
> My answer for the cheater.."Dumb Ass"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it only cheating if you try to do it without them knowing about it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gads... you really want to confuse the issue don't you?
Click to expand...


No, trying to clarify. I've had sex with several other guys since I got together with my current SO, but he knows about it, and was there on more than 1 occasion. I never thought of that as cheating because it was all in the open, but your definition got me concerned. I'm not sure where the sex with other women would fit either, so if you could clarify that as well I would appreciate it.


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why men are able to use the phrase "it's harder for men to control themselves" because there is so much media focus on naked women. I wonder how soon women would be using that phrase if media were to put the same amount of focus on naked men.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about "media focus." I'm talking about making money in porn.
> 
> Men consume pix of naked girls voraciously, because they are lustful. If women are just as lustful, why aren't they consuming the same amount of male pornography?
> 
> And I can't help but wonder how many male members (pardon me) have given you av rep so far.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps women are more attracted to female porn....
> 
> And how is my rep relevant?
Click to expand...

 
Okay, maybe they are. I wouldn't blame them, but even so, I'm pretty sure they don't consume it to the degree that men do.

I mentioned your av because you and I are discussing media focus on women, or male consumption of images of them, and your av is an example of what I'm talking about - an alluing image of a woman's attractive legs. I noticed it right away.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly .... there could be other reasons, like my ex.  He was an adrenaline junkie (raced cars, motorcycles, etc.) and liked the riskiness.  Do you have a list that you want to share?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of what?  We could also be asking why it's so difficult for a woman to forgive ?  Are they to weak, lazy or stupid ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says she doesn't forgive him for his weakness?  Just because a woman leaves her husband because he broke her vows doesn't mean she didn't forgive him.  But if he broke his vow in this instance, which is a very important vow, then who's to say he won't fail her in lesser things.
> 
> A man who keeps his vow shows that he has a value system.
Click to expand...


ok--we're getting a great list here---a man who cheats is lazy, stupid, weak and doesn't have a value system.


----------



## Luissa

Amanda said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it only cheating if you try to do it without them knowing about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gads... you really want to confuse the issue don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, trying to clarify. I've had sex with several other guys since I got together with my current SO, but he knows about it, and was there on more than 1 occasion. I never thought of that as cheating because it was all in the open, but your definition got me concerned. I'm not sure where the sex with other women would fit either, so if you could clarify that as well I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...


It may not be cheating, but your relationship will never last. Dr Dru says if you have to do things like that, there is something wrong with your relationship.


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I caught that, too. Are lazy guys up to much? Do they even attract committed partners to cheat on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not physical laziness ... it's emotional laziness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what "emotional laziness" is, if not an absence of emotion. And in it's place, what? Lust?
Click to expand...


Expending sexual energy outside of a committed relationship is emotional laziness.  Cheating and saying it's because I can't control myself is laziness because it's too hard to put extra energy and time into control one's self.  It takes focus and work to bring that energy home and make the relationship work.  Cheating is exactly that .... it cheats the one who is being faithful of having all their partners focus and energy.

Lust does not have to end in having sex.


----------



## kurtsprincess

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that how cheating happens, for both men and women? Sure they could resist, but they don't. Why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a combination of a lot of things but if we insist on ruling out wiring we are in severe denial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not going to bother denying there are differences in the wiring, and not just sexually. I'm sure the reasoning is different. But I highly doubt either men or women cheat just because they can, or because they saw a nice ass. There's too much at stake, there has to be something else - some other need that needs to be met, or a lack of value in the relationship they're risking.
Click to expand...


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about "media focus." I'm talking about making money in porn.
> 
> Men consume pix of naked girls voraciously, because they are lustful. If women are just as lustful, why aren't they consuming the same amount of male pornography?
> 
> And I can't help but wonder how many male members (pardon me) have given you av rep so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps women are more attracted to female porn....
> 
> And how is my rep relevant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> because it's erotic and we're discussing sex
Click to expand...


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not physical laziness ... it's emotional laziness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what "emotional laziness" is, if not an absence of emotion. And in it's place, what? Lust?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Expending sexual energy outside of a committed relationship is emotional laziness.  Cheating and saying it's because I can't control myself is laziness because it's too hard to put extra energy and time into control one's self.  It takes focus and work to bring that energy home and make the relationship work.  Cheating is exactly that .... it cheats the one who is being faithful of having all their partners focus and energy.
> 
> Lust does not have to end in having sex.
Click to expand...


I guess masturbation is cheating then too ?


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about "media focus." I'm talking about making money in porn.
> 
> Men consume pix of naked girls voraciously, because they are lustful. If women are just as lustful, why aren't they consuming the same amount of male pornography?
> 
> And I can't help but wonder how many male members (pardon me) have given you av rep so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps women are more attracted to female porn....
> 
> And how is my rep relevant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Okay, maybe they are. I wouldn't blame them, but even so, I'm pretty sure they don't consume it to the degree that men do.
> 
> I mentioned your av because you and I are discussing media focus on women, or male consumption of images of them, and your av is an example of what I'm talking about - an alluing image of a woman's attractive legs. I noticed it right away.
Click to expand...


How very asute of you!  I purposefully changed my av after I got involved in this thread.  I felt that it would create a softer connection.  It is one of my favorites because I think the female body is beautiful and one's avatar can convey a subtle message that words cannot.

As for the consumption of female porn by females ... have you noticed that a good portion of the porn these days is lesbian....I don't think that is just to satisfy male's sexual fantasies.


----------



## Amanda

Luissa said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gads... you really want to confuse the issue don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, trying to clarify. I've had sex with several other guys since I got together with my current SO, but he knows about it, and was there on more than 1 occasion. I never thought of that as cheating because it was all in the open, but your definition got me concerned. I'm not sure where the sex with other women would fit either, so if you could clarify that as well I would appreciate it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It may not be cheating, but your relationship will never last. Dr Dru says if you have to do things like that, there is something wrong with your relationship.
Click to expand...


 Dr Dru???? 

OMFG... Dr Dru. There's a whole other thread right there. 

Ok, so back to reality. Who said "have to"? How about... enjoy?

We've been together more than a year and things are only getting better. You need a ton of trust to do what we do and we have it. I'd give my relationship better odds than most because we're so open with each other. I've never, EVER felt to connected to someone, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Amanda said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it only cheating if you try to do it without them knowing about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gads... you really want to confuse the issue don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, trying to clarify. I've had sex with several other guys since I got together with my current SO, but he knows about it, and was there on more than 1 occasion. I never thought of that as cheating because it was all in the open, but your definition got me concerned. I'm not sure where the sex with other women would fit either, so if you could clarify that as well I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...


 If there's no sexual exclusively understanding then it's kind of difficult to cheat..


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> List of what?  We could also be asking why it's so difficult for a woman to forgive ?  Are they to weak, lazy or stupid ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who says she doesn't forgive him for his weakness?  Just because a woman leaves her husband because he broke her vows doesn't mean she didn't forgive him.  But if he broke his vow in this instance, which is a very important vow, then who's to say he won't fail her in lesser things.
> 
> A man who keeps his vow shows that he has a value system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ok--we're getting a great list here---a man who cheats is lazy, stupid, weak and doesn't have a value system.
Click to expand...


Yep ... but to be honest, I would say that women that cheat would fit the list too.


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not physical laziness ... it's emotional laziness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what "emotional laziness" is, if not an absence of emotion. And in it's place, what? Lust?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Expending sexual energy outside of a committed relationship is emotional laziness. Cheating and saying it's because I can't control myself is laziness because it's too hard to put extra energy and time into control one's self. It takes focus and work to bring that energy home and make the relationship work. Cheating is exactly that .... it cheats the one who is being faithful of having all their partners focus and energy.
> 
> Lust does not have to end in having sex.
Click to expand...

 
I think we agree, but what you are calling emotional laziness, I might call self-indulgence.

And let me say ONE MORE TIME that I do not say men can't help themselves. Any man who claims he just couldn't help it is a child at heart, not a man.

I say only that it is more difficult for men than women - generally - to control their lust.

Lust doesn't end with sex, but for men it is temporarily sated. How is it with women?


----------



## Luissa

Amanda said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, trying to clarify. I've had sex with several other guys since I got together with my current SO, but he knows about it, and was there on more than 1 occasion. I never thought of that as cheating because it was all in the open, but your definition got me concerned. I'm not sure where the sex with other women would fit either, so if you could clarify that as well I would appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may not be cheating, but your relationship will never last. Dr Dru says if you have to do things like that, there is something wrong with your relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dr Dru????
> 
> OMFG... Dr Dru. There's a whole other thread right there.
> 
> Ok, so back to reality. Who said "have to"? How about... enjoy?
> 
> We've been together more than a year and things are only getting better. You need a ton of trust to do what we do and we have it. I'd give my relationship better odds than most because we're so open with each other. I've never, EVER felt to connected to someone, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same.
Click to expand...


You are talking about having sex with other men, and you want to talk about reality?
ANd PS DR Dru isn't the only one who says that. 
And like I said, if you need to seek sex elsewhere there is something wrong with the relationship, even if you SO knows about.


----------



## PatekPhilippe

kurtsprincess said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly .... there could be other reasons, like my ex.  He was an adrenaline junkie (raced cars, motorcycles, etc.) and liked the riskiness.  Do you have a list that you want to share?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of what?  We could also be asking why it's so difficult for a woman to forgive ?  Are they to weak, lazy or stupid ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says she doesn't forgive him for his weakness?  Just because a woman leaves her husband because he broke her vows doesn't mean she didn't forgive him.  But if he broke his vow in this instance, which is a very important vow, then who's to say he won't fail her in lesser things.
> 
> A man who keeps his vow shows that he has a value system.
Click to expand...


Not all people value the same things


----------



## Amanda

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps women are more attracted to female porn....
> 
> And how is my rep relevant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, maybe they are. I wouldn't blame them, but even so, I'm pretty sure they don't consume it to the degree that men do.
> 
> I mentioned your av because you and I are discussing media focus on women, or male consumption of images of them, and your av is an example of what I'm talking about - an alluing image of a woman's attractive legs. I noticed it right away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How very asute of you!  I purposefully changed my av after I got involved in this thread.  I felt that it would create a softer connection.  It is one of my favorites because I think the female body is beautiful and one's avatar can convey a subtle message that words cannot.
> 
> As for the consumption of female porn by females ... have you noticed that a good portion of the porn these days is lesbian....I don't think that is just to satisfy male's sexual fantasies.
Click to expand...


I really don't enjoy much porn but it's because I have a sex life that makes porn pale in comparison and so much of professional porn just feels so contrived. I do like some lesbian porn, but even a lot of that feels like it was made for male consumption. It doesn't often show what I feel is hot, but instead male ideas of what is hot about 2 women together. YMMV


----------



## elvis

I've never understood the whole swinger deal.


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what "emotional laziness" is, if not an absence of emotion. And in it's place, what? Lust?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expending sexual energy outside of a committed relationship is emotional laziness.  Cheating and saying it's because I can't control myself is laziness because it's too hard to put extra energy and time into control one's self.  It takes focus and work to bring that energy home and make the relationship work.  Cheating is exactly that .... it cheats the one who is being faithful of having all their partners focus and energy.
> 
> Lust does not have to end in having sex.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess masturbation is cheating then too ?
Click to expand...


Good question!  Hmmmm... I think I would rather my husband masturbate and use that energy to satisfy himself if I were unavailable, than to put that energy into a third party.


----------



## dilloduck

I would think that women who experience menstrual cycles, pregnancy and menapause could at least make a stab at understanding the effects of hormones. It certainly makes it more difficult to maintain your normal, everyday composure and mood. Why is it so hard to believe that men aren't also affected by their hormones?


----------



## PatekPhilippe

elvis said:


> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.



Me either....when I lived in NYC Plato's Retreat was a big thing back then.


----------



## LuckyDan

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps women are more attracted to female porn....
> 
> And how is my rep relevant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, maybe they are. I wouldn't blame them, but even so, I'm pretty sure they don't consume it to the degree that men do.
> 
> I mentioned your av because you and I are discussing media focus on women, or male consumption of images of them, and your av is an example of what I'm talking about - an alluing image of a woman's attractive legs. I noticed it right away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How very asute of you! I purposefully changed my av after I got involved in this thread. I felt that it would create a softer connection. It is one of my favorites because I think the female body is beautiful and one's avatar can convey a subtle message that words cannot.
> 
> As for the consumption of female porn by females ... have you noticed that a good portion of the porn these days is lesbian....I don't think that is just to satisfy male's sexual fantasies.
Click to expand...

 
That's not new, Princess. I have, er, I mean I know a guy who has a book of 1920s porn with girl-girl stuff in it. Or so he says.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Expending sexual energy outside of a committed relationship is emotional laziness.  Cheating and saying it's because I can't control myself is laziness because it's too hard to put extra energy and time into control one's self.  It takes focus and work to bring that energy home and make the relationship work.  Cheating is exactly that .... it cheats the one who is being faithful of having all their partners focus and energy.
> 
> Lust does not have to end in having sex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess masturbation is cheating then too ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good question!  Hmmmm... I think I would rather my husband masturbate and use that energy to satisfy himself if I were unavailable, than to put that energy into a third party.
Click to expand...


and you ?


----------



## kurtsprincess

LuckyDan said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what "emotional laziness" is, if not an absence of emotion. And in it's place, what? Lust?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Expending sexual energy outside of a committed relationship is emotional laziness. Cheating and saying it's because I can't control myself is laziness because it's too hard to put extra energy and time into control one's self. It takes focus and work to bring that energy home and make the relationship work. Cheating is exactly that .... it cheats the one who is being faithful of having all their partners focus and energy.
> 
> Lust does not have to end in having sex.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we agree, but what you are calling emotional laziness, I might call self-indulgence.
> 
> And let me say ONE MORE TIME that I do not say men can't help themselves. Any man who claims he just couldn't help it is a child at heart, not a man.
> 
> I say only that it is more difficult for men than women - generally - to control their lust.
> 
> Lust doesn't end with sex, but for men it is temporarily sated. How is it with women?
Click to expand...


How does lust end with women?  Well, for me sometimes it ends in a totally spontaneous orgasm.  That's what I love about being a woman .... we can have a rush of lust just watching a man walk into a room, experience the physical thrill, follow it through to orgasm and then shrug it off as a "hot flash".

And, it's good to know that you believe males that can't control themselves are just a child at heart.  And we know that children are mature enough to be in a committed relationship.


----------



## Shai

I believe that cheating is more then sex when you cheat you broke youe partner truss and without truss there is no good relationship how can you truss someone who prove to be unreliable .


----------



## kurtsprincess

PatekPhilippe said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> List of what?  We could also be asking why it's so difficult for a woman to forgive ?  Are they to weak, lazy or stupid ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who says she doesn't forgive him for his weakness?  Just because a woman leaves her husband because he broke her vows doesn't mean she didn't forgive him.  But if he broke his vow in this instance, which is a very important vow, then who's to say he won't fail her in lesser things.
> 
> A man who keeps his vow shows that he has a value system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not all people value the same things
Click to expand...


True....but hopefully if one is in a committed relationship both parties value fidelity and vows if they've been said.


----------



## JW Frogen

Life is remarkable easy.

All you have to do is be honest, and pay the hard price.


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> Expending sexual energy outside of a committed relationship is emotional laziness. Cheating and saying it's because I can't control myself is laziness because it's too hard to put extra energy and time into control one's self. It takes focus and work to bring that energy home and make the relationship work. Cheating is exactly that .... it cheats the one who is being faithful of having all their partners focus and energy.
> 
> Lust does not have to end in having sex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think we agree, but what you are calling emotional laziness, I might call self-indulgence.
> 
> And let me say ONE MORE TIME that I do not say men can't help themselves. Any man who claims he just couldn't help it is a child at heart, not a man.
> 
> I say only that it is more difficult for men than women - generally - to control their lust.
> 
> Lust doesn't end with sex, but for men it is temporarily sated. How is it with women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How does lust end with women?  Well, for me sometimes it ends in a totally spontaneous orgasm.  That's what I love about being a woman .... we can have a rush of lust just watching a man walk into a room, experience the physical thrill, follow it through to orgasm and then shrug it off as a "hot flash".
> 
> And, it's good to know that you believe males that can't control themselves are just a child at heart.  And we know that children are mature enough to be in a committed relationship.
Click to expand...


I think if men could do that as easily as you do there would be no need to cheat. Cheating in your mind works wonders.


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> I would think that women who experience menstrual cycles, pregnancy and menapause could at least make a stab at understanding the effects of hormones. It certainly makes it more difficult to maintain your normal, everyday composure and mood. Why is it so hard to believe that men aren't also affected by their hormones?



OK Dillo .... I will admit that hormones are burdensome.  I just wonder how forgiving the world would be if women started using the hormonal excuse for murder....because that's what we feel like doing when our hormones take over....but somehow, and sometimes with the help of meds, we are able to control ourselves.


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess masturbation is cheating then too ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good question!  Hmmmm... I think I would rather my husband masturbate and use that energy to satisfy himself if I were unavailable, than to put that energy into a third party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and you ?
Click to expand...


of course .... ....


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think we agree, but what you are calling emotional laziness, I might call self-indulgence.
> 
> And let me say ONE MORE TIME that I do not say men can't help themselves. Any man who claims he just couldn't help it is a child at heart, not a man.
> 
> I say only that it is more difficult for men than women - generally - to control their lust.
> 
> Lust doesn't end with sex, but for men it is temporarily sated. How is it with women?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does lust end with women?  Well, for me sometimes it ends in a totally spontaneous orgasm.  That's what I love about being a woman .... we can have a rush of lust just watching a man walk into a room, experience the physical thrill, follow it through to orgasm and then shrug it off as a "hot flash".
> 
> And, it's good to know that you believe males that can't control themselves are just a child at heart.  And we know that children are mature enough to be in a committed relationship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think if men could do that as easily as you do there would be no need to cheat. Cheating in your mind works wonders.
Click to expand...


Very true!!


----------



## dilloduck

kurtsprincess said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think that women who experience menstrual cycles, pregnancy and menapause could at least make a stab at understanding the effects of hormones. It certainly makes it more difficult to maintain your normal, everyday composure and mood. Why is it so hard to believe that men aren't also affected by their hormones?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK Dillo .... I will admit that hormones are burdensome.  I just wonder how forgiving the world would be if women started using the hormonal excuse for murder....because that's what we feel like doing when our hormones take over....but somehow, and sometimes with the help of meds, we are able to control ourselves.
Click to expand...


Burdensome. Good word and I think that's the point here. A man's hormonal burden takes on a different form than a woman's. Men are immoral, lazy etc when they are wrestling with theirs. Women's are understood as normal and even met with sympathy. If I could orgasm like you do when a woman walked into the room there would be no need to worry about me screwing another woman.


----------



## Amanda

elvis said:


> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.



What's not to understand?

Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.

Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.

Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.

* She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.


----------



## Lumpy 1

.............


----------



## kurtsprincess

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would think that women who experience menstrual cycles, pregnancy and menapause could at least make a stab at understanding the effects of hormones. It certainly makes it more difficult to maintain your normal, everyday composure and mood. Why is it so hard to believe that men aren't also affected by their hormones?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK Dillo .... I will admit that hormones are burdensome.  I just wonder how forgiving the world would be if women started using the hormonal excuse for murder....because that's what we feel like doing when our hormones take over....but somehow, and sometimes with the help of meds, we are able to control ourselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Burdensome. Good word and I think that's the point here. A man's hormonal burden takes on a different form than a woman's. Men are immoral, lazy etc when they are wrestling with theirs. Women's are understood as normal and even met with sympathy. If I could orgasm like you do when a woman walked into the room there would be no need to worry about me screwing another woman.
Click to expand...


You can ... it takes practice though.


----------



## LuckyDan

dilloduck said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is totally insane. How can you say you can do that over a man whom, by the way you do not know, and tell these men on this forum that they are bad???
> 
> That is totally manipulative on your part...JMHO
> 
> Learn to control yourself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK.....I never told anyone on this forum that they were bad.....no one here has said they are cheaters. I think everyone, up until you posted, is mature enough to discuss this subject honestly. Guess it's time to close up shop cause the kids are here.
> 
> Nite Lucky, Nite Dillo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nite KP----thanks for the honest chat! I'm outta here too
> you too Dan ! Thanks!
Click to expand...

 
This was fun. Sweet dreams all.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Amanda said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
Click to expand...


I can't quite understand how it would work out but I hardly consider myself a fragile, emotionally weak person. I was simply brought up with a different perspective. I  
don't see the necessity. Now part of me wants to make a judgment on your point of view, I guess because it's different and out of the norm I'm familiar with.. But it seems to be working for you so why should I..best to you.. I say..


----------



## Amanda

Lumpy 1 said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't quite understand how it would work out but I hardly consider myself a fragile, emotionally weak person. I was simply brought up with a different perspective. I
> don't see the necessity. Now part of me wants to make a judgment on your point of view, I guess because it's different and out of the norm I'm familiar with.. But it seems to be working for you so why should I..best to you.. I say..
Click to expand...


To be honest with you, it's not the "norm" I was brought up with. It's not something I think I would have considered "normally".

But.... well... It came up. And when I thought about it I couldn't see anything inherently wrong with it.

I decided to go with it and see where things ended up.

I have to report that I couldn't have been more surprised. I'm so happy with sharing my man. I don't think I could have imagined how well I'd deal with all of this. When you get past the social norms it's an exhilarating idea. You don't have to worry or think about what your SO will do. Why would they "cheat" when they can have it just by being honest? 

Sure, I can imagine if my guy weren't getting what he needs emotionally from me that he might cheat. But we're so open. I can't imagine how he could feel he wasn't getting what he needed without talking to me about it.

I feel really bad for any one not in a situation like mine. What I live everyday is how a relationship should be, IMO.


----------



## Shadow

kurtsprincess said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> So every man that has ever cheated is lazy, stupid or weak ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I caught that, too. Are lazy guys up to much? Do they even attract committed partners to cheat on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not physical laziness ... it's emotional laziness.
Click to expand...


I agree with this.  It's the thrill of the new and exciting relationship (the chase...the aspect of being with someone who is trying to flatter and impress etc)...instead of having to work on the relationship that is now older, more settled and caught in a routine.


----------



## editec

Never say never.

The world is way more complex than some of you imagine it to be.


----------



## jillian

doesn't matter... they'll pass judgment anyway.


----------



## Intense

Barb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barb said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what if one or the other is on the disabled list long term (like forever, and only where sex is concerned) and they are in a committed relationship, and the other is not on the disabled list? Does the non disabled have to stare down the barrel of a lifetime of celibacy even if she or he feels a financial and emotional responsibility to stay in said committed relationship? Its a hard world for cut and dried pronouncements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless the disabled partner agrees to let you have girlfriends.
> 
> Otherwise you can leave or stay and be celibate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a hard row to hoe mud. My mom left my father after many years of celibacy, and while it wasn't the only issue, it was definitely a factor. This happened when I was the same age as my daughter is now, and at 22, I was left to fail to convince a man who had no bait on his hook that life was worth living. He killed himself, and I felt responsible. She had every right to a full life, fully lived, and while that wasn't the only problem in their marriage, it might have been the basis for many of the others. So tell me, would it have been better for her to have an affair and find some happiness in life, or was it better for her to take his with her and run with it? Is a mate required to decompose at the same (sometimes accelerated rate), as their spouse or are they allowed to find some solace in this life while maintaining other responsibilities?
> 
> In this case, I think the French have the better answer. The home, marriage and family, is the center of economic and social security, and the variables of life are taken as they come.
Click to expand...


That's a hard nut to crack Barb. You are mixing multiple issues here. Of course you were not responsible for your dad's issues or choices. The failure was not yours. That is an unfair burden. 

Had I been in a position where my spouse was incapable of intimacy, be it temporal or what ever, I would still try to make the relationship work. Infidelity, is probably a deal breaker for me. Still, it's hard to predetermine.  I would probably consider giving a year of celibacy on both our parts, and see how we both felt about it after that. Words are one thing, what we actually choose when gut punched is another matter. I would respect a person and their decision no matter which way it goes.


----------



## goldcatt

editec said:


> Never say never.
> 
> The world is way more complex than some of you imagine it to be.



No, the world is incredibly complex. And I'd like to think if I were in a relationship that I valued for every other reason, whether married or not, that I could both keep a promise of exclusivity and try at least to work out the issues with a well-meaning partner who has a "weak moment". I've never had a problem with the former, for me personally I'll admit the latter would be difficult - I don't know about impossible. There are just too many emotions bound up in sex within a relationship for me, as there are with a lot of people. Some people would mock that itself as weak, I can't imagine it any other way. But it does make exclusivity more of an issue. When oone person cheats, there's more than one thing of value being betrayed.


----------



## Sherry

Wow, you guys have some mighty deep conversations after midnight. Good job, Lump.


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> Wow, you guys have some mighty deep conversations after midnight. Good job, Lump.



I'm still recovering----it's almost like a hangover.


----------



## Sherry

dilloduck said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you guys have some mighty deep conversations after midnight. Good job, Lump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still recovering----it's almost like a hangover.
Click to expand...


Yeah, good thing I wasn't around and drinking, or one of your posts might have inspired me to say things that I would regret in the morning.


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you guys have some mighty deep conversations after midnight. Good job, Lump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still recovering----it's almost like a hangover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, good thing I wasn't around and drinking, or one of your posts might have inspired me to say things that I would regret in the morning.
Click to expand...


You wouldn't be the first one who has done that  ----actually it was pretty fun and thought provoking.


----------



## strollingbones

i am always amused at people who value sexuality in thier relationship more than the finer thing of the relationship...or perhaps i should say forced fidelity...cause that is what it is...its human nature to have more than one sexual partner....mongonomy....is forced....by religion etc...

my motto...if i dont know about it...i dont care....he goes out of town....he can do whatever he wants...as long as he is not stupid and flaunts it...he has had a vas for 28 years....and never brought home any diseases..etc..

i, myself, love a good trip out of town on occasion


----------



## strollingbones

and yes, frogen, that is exactly why you love me....lol


----------



## goldcatt

hellbitch said:


> i am always amused at people who value sexuality in thier relationship more than the finer thing of the relationship...or perhaps i should say forced fidelity...cause that is what it is...its human nature to have more than one sexual partner....mongonomy....is forced....by religion etc...
> 
> my motto...if i dont know about it...i dont care....he goes out of town....he can do whatever he wants...as long as he is not stupid and flaunts it...he has had a vas for 28 years....and never brought home any diseases..etc..
> 
> i, myself, love a good trip out of town on occasion



That's up to you, and if it works for you that's fine. It's just that some people aren't as able to separate the sexuality from what you call the finer things. You're right about fidelity being forced though, it should never be an ultimatum. But if it matters to me I doubt I'd be happy long term with somebody who wasn't willing to make that choice.


----------



## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> hellbitch said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am always amused at people who value sexuality in thier relationship more than the finer thing of the relationship...or perhaps i should say forced fidelity...cause that is what it is...its human nature to have more than one sexual partner....mongonomy....is forced....by religion etc...
> 
> my motto...if i dont know about it...i dont care....he goes out of town....he can do whatever he wants...as long as he is not stupid and flaunts it...he has had a vas for 28 years....and never brought home any diseases..etc..
> 
> i, myself, love a good trip out of town on occasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's up to you, and if it works for you that's fine. It's just that some people aren't as able to separate the sexuality from what you call the finer things. You're right about fidelity being forced though, it should never be an ultimatum. But if it matters to me I doubt I'd be happy long term with somebody who wasn't willing to make that choice.
Click to expand...


I think the concept of having one sexual partner is basically sound but I'm certainly not going to be devasted if a partner "strays" when the realtionship is solid in other areas. It's no different that a partner agreeing to stay within a budget and then spending to much one day. It happens. Expecting people to be perfect is a sure fire way to be disappointed.


----------



## Shadow

goldcatt said:


> hellbitch said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am always amused at people who value sexuality in thier relationship more than the finer thing of the relationship...or perhaps i should say forced fidelity...cause that is what it is...its human nature to have more than one sexual partner....mongonomy....is forced....by religion etc...
> 
> my motto...if i dont know about it...i dont care....he goes out of town....he can do whatever he wants...as long as he is not stupid and flaunts it...he has had a vas for 28 years....and never brought home any diseases..etc..
> 
> i, myself, love a good trip out of town on occasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's up to you, and if it works for you that's fine. It's just that some people aren't as able to separate the sexuality from what you call the finer things. You're right about fidelity being forced though, it should never be an ultimatum.* But if it matters to me I doubt I'd be happy long term with somebody who wasn't willing to make that choice*.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't either...that would be like telling someone "anyone will do".  I would want my relationship to be more meaningful than that to both of us.  But, if others agree to that kind of set up,and can handle the fall out...more power to them.


----------



## Sherry

I envy men. I wish my emotions wouldn't get in the way sometimes.


----------



## Anguille

Question for dilloduck :  Have you shared my toothbrush with anyone else?


----------



## Anguille

LuckyDan said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?
> 
> If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
Click to expand...

Do you base that opinion on personal experience and observation or on what popular culture would have us believe?


----------



## RadiomanATL

Thread is useless without pics...


----------



## FLGoldilocks

I'm still relatively new to the forums, and I haven't read all the answers to this, but I wanted to give my two cents anyway. 

I was married to a man who couldn't keep it in his pants if you held a gun to his head, cocked and ready to fire. He just couldn't do it. I gave him chance after chance after chance, all to no avail. I finally ended up divorcing him and moving on. 

I now have a boyfriend that I love very much. Our relationship has had its rough moments, and probably will again. It's a work in progress, just like everyone else's. If he cheated on me once, and was honest with me; if he came to me and confessed and admitted remorse and didn't try to blame me and swore he'd never see or talk to her again and really showed me he still wanted to be with me and make it work, it would be hard, but I would forgive him. That's what you do when you love someone. You let mistakes go. Serial cheating is NOT a mistake. 

And as for being disabled/unable to have sex...if that's really all your relationship is worth to you, then it seems to me your partner is better off without you anyway. I committed to loving my boyfriend no matter what, not loving him as long as he gets me off X times a week. Yes, sex is a wonderful part of any relationship, but there should be so much more to the relationship. There should be friendship, conversation, shared interests, a common foundation that you built the relationship on. And if that foundation is a bed...well, we all know how soft beds can be, and that's not really a solid foundation, is it? 

If my boyfriend could never have sex again, I'd still be here. My love for him goes well beyond the physical. He gives me so many other things that are much more important. And I think it's safe to say he feels the same. 

Cheating is wrong, no matter what the reason. Sex should never be that important to you that you would betray someone you love that way. 

I also have to say that while I agree that sex itself is obviously cheating, I think there are many other things that could constitute cheating.


----------



## dilloduck

Anguille said:


> Question for dilloduck :  Have you shared my toothbrush with anyone else?



If I have are you going to hate me ?


----------



## Sherry

FLGoldilocks said:


> I'm still relatively new to the forums, and I haven't read all the answers to this, but I wanted to give my two cents anyway.
> 
> I was married to a man who couldn't keep it in his pants if you held a gun to his head, cocked and ready to fire. He just couldn't do it. I gave him chance after chance after chance, all to no avail. I finally ended up divorcing him and moving on.
> 
> I now have a boyfriend that I love very much. Our relationship has had its rough moments, and probably will again. It's a work in progress, just like everyone else's. If he cheated on me once, and was honest with me; if he came to me and confessed and admitted remorse and didn't try to blame me and swore he'd never see or talk to her again and really showed me he still wanted to be with me and make it work, it would be hard, but I would forgive him. That's what you do when you love someone. You let mistakes go. Serial cheating is NOT a mistake.
> 
> And as for being disabled/unable to have sex...if that's really all your relationship is worth to you, then it seems to me your partner is better off without you anyway. I committed to loving my boyfriend no matter what, not loving him as long as he gets me off X times a week. Yes, sex is a wonderful part of any relationship, but there should be so much more to the relationship. There should be friendship, conversation, shared interests, a common foundation that you built the relationship on. And if that foundation is a bed...well, we all know how soft beds can be, and that's not really a solid foundation, is it?
> 
> If my boyfriend could never have sex again, I'd still be here. My love for him goes well beyond the physical. He gives me so many other things that are much more important. And I think it's safe to say he feels the same.
> 
> Cheating is wrong, no matter what the reason. Sex should never be that important to you that you would betray someone you love that way.
> 
> I also have to say that while I agree that sex itself is obviously cheating, I think there are many other things that could constitute cheating.



Very insightful. Would you mind expanding on the last sentence??


----------



## strollingbones

o i love the....my emotions are stronger bullmal....no they are not...you are just willing to bail...

its all up to what you want and what you are willing to do...or not do....i love that...willing to have anyone...o yes...if you dont walk the straight and narrow you must do everyone blah blah fucking blah...

do you realize what most people engage in now is serial mongonomy.....stay with someone for 3 years and move on...look at the divorce rate


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hellbitch said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am always amused at people who value sexuality in thier relationship more than the finer thing of the relationship...or perhaps i should say forced fidelity...cause that is what it is...its human nature to have more than one sexual partner....mongonomy....is forced....by religion etc...
> 
> my motto...if i dont know about it...i dont care....he goes out of town....he can do whatever he wants...as long as he is not stupid and flaunts it...he has had a vas for 28 years....and never brought home any diseases..etc..
> 
> i, myself, love a good trip out of town on occasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's up to you, and if it works for you that's fine. It's just that some people aren't as able to separate the sexuality from what you call the finer things. You're right about fidelity being forced though, it should never be an ultimatum. But if it matters to me I doubt I'd be happy long term with somebody who wasn't willing to make that choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the concept of having one sexual partner is basically sound but I'm certainly not going to be devasted if a partner "strays" when the realtionship is solid in other areas. It's no different that a partner agreeing to stay within a budget and then spending to much one day. It happens. Expecting people to be perfect is a sure fire way to be disappointed.
Click to expand...


That's just a matter of priority and what value you, personally, place on different things. Which is why it's such an individual thing, and I hate to make a one size fits all rule. To me, physical and emotional intimacy are just that much more important and tied to the soundness of the relationship than external things like money. If I were like those of you who see them more separately that might not be the case. But I don't make commitments lightly, so it's hard to say exactly how I'd react. I just know how I see it and that it would be difficult, and painful.


----------



## Anguille

LuckyDan said:


> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didin't see this one before.
> 
> No, I do not say men are incapable of controllinjg themselves. I'm saying it is more difficult for them to battle lust, and women who recognize this and value it are themselves to be prized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think it's less difficult for women to battle lust? How do you think we are able to control it and men are not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
Click to expand...

The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?


----------



## strollingbones

Anguille said:


> Question for dilloduck :  Have you shared my toothbrush with anyone else?



that is just flat nasty


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> I envy men. I wish my emotions wouldn't get in the way sometimes.



Don't be too envious---unfortunately our emotions kick in after the fact and guilt/shame sucks.


----------



## strollingbones

dilloduck said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I envy men. I wish my emotions wouldn't get in the way sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be too envious---unfortunately our emotions kick in after the fact and guilt/shame sucks.
Click to expand...


you have no shame


----------



## dilloduck

hellbitch said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I envy men. I wish my emotions wouldn't get in the way sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be too envious---unfortunately our emotions kick in after the fact and guilt/shame sucks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you have no shame
Click to expand...


We like to give that impression


----------



## Intense

dilloduck said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I envy men. I wish my emotions wouldn't get in the way sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be too envious---unfortunately our emotions kick in after the fact and guilt/shame sucks.
Click to expand...


The question is what does it teach you??? We live in a world fallen from grace with the hope of redemption. How many times does one stick it into a live electrical socket before one learns???


----------



## dilloduck

Anguille said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think it's less difficult for women to battle lust? How do you think we are able to control it and men are not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
Click to expand...


so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?


----------



## Anguille

Amanda said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it only cheating if you try to do it without them knowing about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gads... you really want to confuse the issue don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, trying to clarify. I've had sex with several other guys since I got together with my current SO, but he knows about it, and was there on more than 1 occasion. I never thought of that as cheating because it was all in the open, but your definition got me concerned. I'm not sure where the sex with other women would fit either, so if you could clarify that as well I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

TMI about your sex life, Amanda. But you do make an important point. We shouldn't assume that sexual fidelity is important in all relationships nor that if it isn't in some, they are automatically not worthwhile or meaningful.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Anguille said:


> TMI about your sex life, Amanda.



No no no....keep going....


Need to borrow my camera?


----------



## LuckyDan

Anguille said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you base that opinion on personal experience and observation or on what popular culture would have us believe?
Click to expand...

 
I'm not sure popular culture shares my opinion, but I'm not the first to make the observation.


----------



## Sherry

dilloduck said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?
Click to expand...


There is porn in pics and porn in words.


----------



## dilloduck

RadiomanATL said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> TMI about your sex life, Amanda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No no no....keep going....
> 
> 
> Need to borrow my camera?
Click to expand...


seriously---there is no such thing as TMI as long as it's honest.


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is porn in pics and porn in words.
Click to expand...


Is that a yes ?


----------



## Sherry

dilloduck said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is porn in pics and porn in words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that a yes ?
Click to expand...


Yes.


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is porn in pics and porn in words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a yes ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes.
Click to expand...


so women just think men should satisfy their lust the same way women do and it is just evil if they don't ?


----------



## Anguille

hellbitch said:


> i am always amused at people who value sexuality in thier relationship more than the finer thing of the relationship...or perhaps i should say forced fidelity...cause that is what it is...its human nature to have more than one sexual partner....mongonomy....is forced....by religion etc...
> 
> my motto...if i dont know about it...i dont care....he goes out of town....he can do whatever he wants...as long as he is not stupid and flaunts it...he has had a vas for 28 years....and never brought home any diseases..etc..
> 
> i, myself, love a good trip out of town on occasion


You pagans sure have more fun.


----------



## Anguille

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hellbitch said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am always amused at people who value sexuality in thier relationship more than the finer thing of the relationship...or perhaps i should say forced fidelity...cause that is what it is...its human nature to have more than one sexual partner....mongonomy....is forced....by religion etc...
> 
> my motto...if i dont know about it...i dont care....he goes out of town....he can do whatever he wants...as long as he is not stupid and flaunts it...he has had a vas for 28 years....and never brought home any diseases..etc..
> 
> i, myself, love a good trip out of town on occasion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's up to you, and if it works for you that's fine. It's just that some people aren't as able to separate the sexuality from what you call the finer things. You're right about fidelity being forced though, it should never be an ultimatum. But if it matters to me I doubt I'd be happy long term with somebody who wasn't willing to make that choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the concept of having one sexual partner is basically sound but I'm certainly not going to be devasted if a partner "strays" when the realtionship is solid in other areas. It's no different that a partner agreeing to stay within a budget and then spending to much one day. It happens. *Expecting people to be perfect is a sure fire way to be disappointed.*
Click to expand...


True


----------



## Sherry

dilloduck said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a yes ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so women just think men should satisfy their lust the same way women do and it is just evil if they don't ?
Click to expand...


Are we just talking about porn?? If so, then whatever works for the individual, or it wouldn't be very satisfying. I don't think porn and/or masturbating is cheating.


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so women just think men should satisfy their lust the same way women do and it is just evil if they don't ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are we just talking about porn?? If so, then whatever works for the individual, or it wouldn't be very satisfying. I don't think porn and/or masturbating is cheating.
Click to expand...


good thing cuz you sure post a lot of naughty looking food.


----------



## Anguille

dilloduck said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that the porn industry is geared more towards providing a product that men will buy. Because men have more money than women and because it's more socially accepted for men to indulge in porn. Porn doesn't do much for me. Not that I've given it much opportunity. My real life and my imagination pretty much give me what I need to feel satisfied.


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> hellbitch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be too envious---unfortunately our emotions kick in after the fact and guilt/shame sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you have no shame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We like to give that impression
Click to expand...


Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.


----------



## dilloduck

goldcatt said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hellbitch said:
> 
> 
> 
> you have no shame
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We like to give that impression
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.
Click to expand...


Ever know a woman who just set out to get laid some weekend ? If so--did she feel shame afterwards or jsut accept it as a natural part of beign a woman ?


----------



## Sherry

Anguille said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm saying that the porn industry is geared more towards providing a product that men will buy. Because men have more money than women and because it's more socially accepted for men to indulge in porn. Porn doesn't do much for me. Not that I've given it much opportunity. My real life and my imagination pretty much give me what I need to feel satisfied.
Click to expand...


I disagree with the money aspect. Some women get pleasure from spending hundreds of dollars on a freakin' purse.


----------



## Sherry

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> We like to give that impression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever know a woman who just set out to get laid some weekend ? If so--did she feel shame afterwards or jsut accept it as a natural part of beign a woman ?
Click to expand...


Again, I envy men.


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> We like to give that impression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever know a woman who just set out to get laid some weekend ? If so--did she feel shame afterwards or jsut accept it as a natural part of beign a woman ?
Click to expand...


Of course. Hell, I've done it myself. And if I were single, there's sure as hell no shame in it. If I were in a relationship where there was no expectation of fidelity, there's no shame in it. If I were in a committed relationship and went out to just get laid?  I don't think I'd be ashamed of wanting sex, but I probably would feel guilty as hell for breaking my word and ashamed of hurting my partner, of course. But to live in guilt and shame forever? Why?


----------



## LuckyDan

Anguille said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kurtsprincess said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think it's less difficult for women to battle lust? How do you think we are able to control it and men are not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
Click to expand...

 
No, I don't. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about infidelity. 

My point about the porn is that most men find it to be the most readily available means of relieving frustration, or more appropriately, finding some gratification, because it gets right to the point - sex.

If women had just as difficult a time with lust as men do, it seems they would seek the same directly sexual outlet. 

By contrast, the romance novel market is pretty big - has been for years. Who buys them?


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying that the porn industry is geared more towards providing a product that men will buy. Because men have more money than women and because it's more socially accepted for men to indulge in porn. Porn doesn't do much for me. Not that I've given it much opportunity. My real life and my imagination pretty much give me what I need to feel satisfied.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree with the money aspect. Some women get pleasure from spending hundreds of dollars on a freakin' purse.
Click to expand...


orgasmic shopping---suddenly everything is clear


----------



## Anguille

hellbitch said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question for dilloduck :  Have you shared my toothbrush with anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is just flat nasty
Click to expand...

It was you, wasn't it, that he shared my toothbrush with. 

I knew just it!


----------



## goldcatt

LuckyDan said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> You believe it's the same? No difference?
> 
> Consider the porn industry. How many video makers and magazines and websites thrive on selling images of naked girls to men? How many on selling pics of naked men to women?
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I don't. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about infidelity.
> 
> My point about the porn is that most men find it to be the most readily available means of relieving frustration, or more appropriately, finding some gratification, because it gets right to the point - sex.
> 
> If women had just as difficult a time with lust as men do, it seems they would seek the same directly sexual outlet.
> 
> By contrast, the romance novel market is pretty big - has been for years. Who buys them?
Click to expand...


Sherry said it, porn doesn't have to be pictures.


----------



## mudwhistle

Sherry said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever know a woman who just set out to get laid some weekend ? If so--did she feel shame afterwards or jsut accept it as a natural part of beign a woman ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I envy men.
Click to expand...


I'm sure men feel the same guilt as women do.


----------



## Sherry

goldcatt said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about infidelity.
> 
> My point about the porn is that most men find it to be the most readily available means of relieving frustration, or more appropriately, finding some gratification, because it gets right to the point - sex.
> 
> If women had just as difficult a time with lust as men do, it seems they would seek the same directly sexual outlet.
> 
> By contrast, the romance novel market is pretty big - has been for years. Who buys them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sherry said it, porn doesn't have to be pictures.
Click to expand...


Words, both written and spoken, can be very stimulating. Is phone sex cheating??


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about infidelity.
> 
> My point about the porn is that most men find it to be the most readily available means of relieving frustration, or more appropriately, finding some gratification, because it gets right to the point - sex.
> 
> If women had just as difficult a time with lust as men do, it seems they would seek the same directly sexual outlet.
> 
> By contrast, the romance novel market is pretty big - has been for years. Who buys them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said it, porn doesn't have to be pictures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Words, both written and spoken, can be very stimulating. Is phone sex cheating??
Click to expand...


I would assume so if you have promised someone that you will be "loyal".


----------



## Anguille

Sherry said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about infidelity.
> 
> My point about the porn is that most men find it to be the most readily available means of relieving frustration, or more appropriately, finding some gratification, because it gets right to the point - sex.
> 
> If women had just as difficult a time with lust as men do, it seems they would seek the same directly sexual outlet.
> 
> By contrast, the romance novel market is pretty big - has been for years. Who buys them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said it, porn doesn't have to be pictures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Words, both written and spoken, can be very stimulating. Is phone sex cheating??
Click to expand...

I'd say none of it is cheating unless it starts to crowd out the other person. For example, someone with a porn addiction so strong it starts to take over their life is cheating in a way.


----------



## LuckyDan

Sherry said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about infidelity.
> 
> My point about the porn is that most men find it to be the most readily available means of relieving frustration, or more appropriately, finding some gratification, because it gets right to the point - sex.
> 
> If women had just as difficult a time with lust as men do, it seems they would seek the same directly sexual outlet.
> 
> By contrast, the romance novel market is pretty big - has been for years. Who buys them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said it, porn doesn't have to be pictures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Words, both written and spoken, can be very stimulating. Is phone sex cheating??
Click to expand...

 
True. Men tend to be more easily stimulated by the visual, where women require something more...what? mental? How to characterize it, I'm not sure.


----------



## Sherry

LuckyDan said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said it, porn doesn't have to be pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Words, both written and spoken, can be very stimulating. Is phone sex cheating??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True. Men tend to be more easily stimulated by the visual, where women require something more...what? mental? How to characterize it, I'm not sure.
Click to expand...


1. foreplay
2. fucking
3. snuggling


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words, both written and spoken, can be very stimulating. Is phone sex cheating??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. Men tend to be more easily stimulated by the visual, where women require something more...what? mental? How to characterize it, I'm not sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
Click to expand...


Does it HAVE to be in that order ?


----------



## Sherry

dilloduck said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. Men tend to be more easily stimulated by the visual, where women require something more...what? mental? How to characterize it, I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does it HAVE to be in that order ?
Click to expand...


Nah, switch it up to keep it interesting.


----------



## Paulie

I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.

Why is that?  What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?


----------



## LuckyDan

Sherry said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Words, both written and spoken, can be very stimulating. Is phone sex cheating??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. Men tend to be more easily stimulated by the visual, where women require something more...what? mental? How to characterize it, I'm not sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
Click to expand...

 
#3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience. I was talking about porn and romance lit as substituutes for that, and using them as examples of the male-female differences.


----------



## Anguille

Paulie said:


> I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.
> 
> Why is that?  What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?


I think it's because in the past, before modern birth control methods, sex entailed more complications than it does today. People's attitudes just haven't evolved yet.


----------



## dilloduck

Paulie said:


> I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.
> 
> Why is that?  What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?



welcome---we've been exploring that very topic. Give it your best shot. There are some pretty honest women here who are assisting too. It's appreciated.


----------



## Anguille

LuckyDan said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. Men tend to be more easily stimulated by the visual, where women require something more...what? mental? How to characterize it, I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> #3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience.  I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.
Click to expand...

You place a lot of emphasis on the alleged differences between men and women. I just don't see it. I think the differences are negligible and I find more differences between personality types than between the sexes.


----------



## Anguille

Paulie said:


> I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.
> 
> Why is that?  What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?


Paulie, what would you do if your girlfriend made a sammich for another guy?


----------



## Sherry

LuckyDan said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> True. Men tend to be more easily stimulated by the visual, where women require something more...what? mental? How to characterize it, I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> #3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience.  I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.
Click to expand...


A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.


----------



## Sherry

Paulie said:


> I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.
> 
> Why is that?  What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?



Because it makes some people feel vulnerable in a way other things do not.


----------



## goldcatt

Sherry said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience.  I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.
Click to expand...


Exactly!


----------



## LuckyDan

Anguille said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience. I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You place a lot of emphasis on the alleged differences between men and women. I just don't see it. I think the differences are negligible and I find more differences between personality types than between the sexes.
Click to expand...

 
I'm generalizing yes, but I believe the male-female differences are much greater than many want to admit - especially women. 

What is interesting is that I've noticed that those women who see little difference between the sexes (or claim to) tend to have sexual attitudes similar to those of men. Whether it's more of the lip than of the heart, I'm not sure.

When we get down to the individual, of course the generalizations become fuzzier, but I think they provide a good starting point.


----------



## dilloduck

dilloduck said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> We like to give that impression
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever know a woman who just set out to get laid some weekend ? If so--did she feel shame afterwards or jsut accept it as a natural part of beign a woman ?
Click to expand...


bump


----------



## LuckyDan

Sherry said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience. I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.
Click to expand...

 
We don't disagree, but what do you mean by closure?


----------



## Amanda

Luissa said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may not be cheating, but your relationship will never last. Dr Dru says if you have to do things like that, there is something wrong with your relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Dru????
> 
> OMFG... Dr Dru. There's a whole other thread right there.
> 
> Ok, so back to reality. Who said "have to"? How about... enjoy?
> 
> We've been together more than a year and things are only getting better. You need a ton of trust to do what we do and we have it. I'd give my relationship better odds than most because we're so open with each other. I've never, EVER felt to connected to someone, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are talking about having sex with other men, and you want to talk about reality?
> ANd PS DR Dru isn't the only one who says that.
> And like I said, if you need to seek sex elsewhere there is something wrong with the relationship, even if you SO knows about.
Click to expand...


And like I said and you ignored twice... Who said "need"?


----------



## Sherry

LuckyDan said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> #3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience. I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't disagree, but what do you mean by closure?
Click to expand...


I think for men, it is ejaculation. For women, it is how they are handled after reaching climax. Men don't bask in the glow for anywhere near as long.


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Contrary to some of what you seem to be getting from my posts I don't think people have to be perfect. And while I'd certainly want a man who made a commitment to keep it, being imperfect is nothing to live in shame over. Like every other part of life it's something to learn from, and maybe fix or maybe move on depending on the situation and the people involved. But shame solves nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever know a woman who just set out to get laid some weekend ? If so--did she feel shame afterwards or jsut accept it as a natural part of beign a woman ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bump
Click to expand...


Asked and answered. 



			
				goldcatt said:
			
		

> Of course. Hell, I've done it myself. And if I were single, there's sure as hell no shame in it. If I were in a relationship where there was no expectation of fidelity, there's no shame in it. If I were in a committed relationship and went out to just get laid? I don't think I'd be ashamed of wanting sex, but I probably would feel guilty as hell for breaking my word and ashamed of hurting my partner, of course. But to live in guilt and shame forever? Why?



It's situational. But I fail to see how feeling shame forever is necessary. If it's that negative an experience, it's certainly something to learn from. How is perpetual shame constructive?


----------



## FLGoldilocks

Sherry said:


> Very insightful. Would you mind expanding on the last sentence??



I'd be happy to. Just didn't want to sound like a know it all or anything. lol 

Ok, so before I start, my boyfriend, D and I, agreed before we started dating on how we, for our relationship, define cheating: Basically, anything we wouldn't want the other to know about, is cheating. Of course, as you can see by our broad wording, technically, buying shoes at wallyworld or a new computer game and then hiding it could, theoretically, be cheating. So, I guess for us it's better to say that we just have a rule that if we would hide it, it's wrong, and it applies across the board. 

But, given that our feelings is "if we wouldn't want the other to know" that leaves it pretty open. It really boils down to intent. 

Sex, obviously, is cheating. All the little variations on sex, oral, anal, heavy petting, french kissing, those are all the obvious ones. 

But what about a kiss? Just a closed mouth peck on the lips or the cheek? Well, what's the intent? If I'm kissing my kid, my mom or dad, my cousin Joe, clearly my intent is just to greet my family member or express my affection for them, so that's not cheating. But that same kiss, given to, say my friend Steve whom I once dated and had a sexual relationship with, could be cheating. Is my intent behind that kiss just to greet an old friend that I haven't seen in however long? Or is my intent to see if he still has feelings for me? That defines if it's cheating or not. 

Or let's say D and I are having problems (for the record, we're fine! This is all hypothetical just to make my point. ), and I start talking to that old friend Steve. If all I'm doing is asking Steve to be a sounding board to let me vent a bit, or to give me a guy's perspective to help me understand better where D is coming from, that's probably cool. But, if I'm telling Steve things that I won't share with D, then that is emotional cheating. I'm sharing things with someone outside my relationship that should be shared with my partner. I'm depriving my partner of something he deserves and needs in our relationship. If I'm talking to Steve in hopes that he'll meet those needs that D isn't, or in hopes that those conversations might turn to more, that's cheating. Those are things I should be expecting from D, and/or telling D that I need. 

Basically, I think cheating is really anytime you take something that should be directed to, or a part of your relationship, and put it elsewhere, with another person, that's cheating. I'm not talking about sharing your drag racing hobby with your buddy, or going to book club, but things that most people would define as being "relationship stuff". The emotions, the sexual aspect, the close sharing, the commitment, intimacy, those things directed toward someone other than your partner all constitute cheating.

Oh, let me add...things that start out as "not cheating" can turn into "cheating". For example, let's say that a couple decides they want to have a threesome. If both parties have agreed, and are comfortable with it, that's not cheating. But, if one partner ends up being completely ignored during said threesome, that is cheating. Or if one partner later hooks up with the third person without their partner's knowledge or consent, that's cheating. This is why I think it's good for couples to discuss things like this and determine their position on these types of issues before they get together. D and I agreed from well before we officially began dating that neither of us likes to share, nor do we want to be shared. This eliminates any confusion, doubts, or possibilities of anyone getting hurt later by feeling forced to do something like that when they don't really want to.


----------



## LuckyDan

Sherry said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't disagree, but what do you mean by closure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think for men, it is ejaculation. For women, it is how they are handled after reaching climax. Men don't bask in the glow for anywhere near as long.
Click to expand...

 
Ah. Again we agree. Thanks.


----------



## Amanda

RadiomanATL said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> TMI about your sex life, Amanda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No no no....keep going....
> 
> 
> Need to borrow my camera?
Click to expand...




Actually we have a water proof camera which comes in handy for more reasons than 1 might imagine without thinking about it a bit...


----------



## Shadow

Paulie said:


> I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.
> 
> Why is that?  What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?



What would you describe as "any other offense"?  Because, not taking care of your family is also a deal breaker for me.  So, I'm wondering what you view as a deal breaker..if it's not fidelity?


----------



## Amanda

dilloduck said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> TMI about your sex life, Amanda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No no no....keep going....
> 
> 
> Need to borrow my camera?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> seriously---there is no such thing as TMI as long as it's honest.
Click to expand...


I really didn't think it was TMI... I didn't go into any details at all.


----------



## Shadow

Sherry said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. foreplay
> 2. fucking
> 3. snuggling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #3 is a _very_ female thing, I think, but you're describing a romantic/sexual experience.  I was talking about porn and romance lit as a substituute for that, and using them a examples of the male-female differences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A romance novel can provide a mental sort of "snuggling". It provides the COMPLETE fantasy, and I think that's what women crave more than men. Men can look at a pic and just jump into the middle of it and be satisfied, with no closure necessary.
Click to expand...


I agree with this.  It's the whole story in the romance novel...not just the juicy parts that women respond to.


----------



## AquaAthena

LuckyDan said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bam! Right there! Key words "needs" and "emotionally." That's the difference between the sexes that I'm talking about. How many women have you heard say those words? How many men?
> 
> If a woman is cheating, chance are she's in love.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, *while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.*
Click to expand...



LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.

LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. _You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women_.


----------



## Sherry

AquaAthena said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, *while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.
> 
> LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. _You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women_.
Click to expand...


Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??


----------



## AquaAthena

Sherry said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, *while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.
> 
> LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. _You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women_.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??
Click to expand...


Lol, Sherry, _nada! _ And that crush was not a _reality crush_, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I_ do love, like and understand...men. _ *W00*


----------



## dilloduck

AquaAthena said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]
> 
> LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.
> 
> LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. _You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol, Sherry, _nada! _ And that crush was not a _reality crush_, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I_ do love, like and understand...men. _ *W00*
Click to expand...


You've been lying to me ?


----------



## Sherry

AquaAthena said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]
> 
> LuckyDan, I believe that to be a truism for those who do betray the confidence their spouses presumably have in them. I personally would leave a commitment before I would betray a loved one's trust in me. I have proven myself incapable of having an affair, while married. I also would not do that to myself.
> 
> LuckyDan, I would like to say something to you I have thought for some time. _You have an appreciation for the female gender in many ways. I love the way you love women. And while I can't speak for all women, I would hope that they would perceive your enjoyment of them as I, and that your attitude towards women, is a huge compliment to all women_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol, Sherry, _nada! _ And that crush was not a _reality crush_, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I_ do love, like and understand...men. _ *W00*
Click to expand...


What was his name again??


----------



## AquaAthena

dilloduck said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a man doesn't have emotional needs? And sex is always some emotionless mechanical act to them? I find that hard to believe. The wiring is a little different, but not that different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> SOOOO  are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
Click to expand...


There are many reasons for marriage vows. Tradition, religion, etc., but only one matters to me and that is....._it confirms in my mind that the man who professes his love for me, really means it, otherwise he would not risk taking this legal and binding chance on love and possibly having it ruin him, in one way or another, down the line. _


----------



## AquaAthena

Sherry said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, Sherry, _nada! _ And that crush was not a _reality crush_, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I_ do love, like and understand...men. _ *W00*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What was his name again??
Click to expand...


Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it?  Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!


----------



## dilloduck

AquaAthena said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course men have emotional needs, but I'm speaking generally. Men who cheat may be looking for intimacy to some degree, but I maintain that more men than women can cheat with no emotional attachment to their lover.
> 
> In other words, men will stray for sexual gratification, and emotional attachment may well follow, while women will stray to have their emotional needs met, with sex to follow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOOOO  are marriage vows primarily to give the woman the emotional security she so longs for ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for marriage vows. Tradition, religion, etc., but only one matters to me and that is....._it confirms in my mind that the man who professes his love for me, really means it, otherwise he would not risk taking this legal and binding chance on love and possibly having it ruin him, in one way or another, down the line. _
Click to expand...


ie  reassurance----legal even


----------



## AquaAthena

dilloduck said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Dan your USMB crush that you had a thread on awhile back, in which you teased us all mercilessly??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, Sherry, _nada! _ And that crush was not a _reality crush_, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I_ do love, like and understand...men. _ *W00*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've been lying to me ?
Click to expand...


----------



## Sherry

AquaAthena said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, Sherry, _nada! _ And that crush was not a _reality crush_, just something I thought would be fun to do online at USMB. I have no crushes on any one here as of this writing, but I would like to say, as I have once before, that I_ do love, like and understand...men. _ *W00*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was his name again??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it?  Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!
Click to expand...


Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. Now I have to go masturbate.


----------



## dilloduck

Sherry said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was his name again??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it?  Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. Now I have to go masturbate.
Click to expand...


You must resist those evil desires--be strong woman !


----------



## AquaAthena

Sherry said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was his name again??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it?  Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. *Now I have to go masturbate*.
Click to expand...


 *Always a good thing...*.


----------



## dilloduck

AquaAthena said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> Umm....lessee....wasn't it Dane? Lol. Remember his fist name had four letters and incoporated one or more common first names in it?  Lol...Sherry...you are so damn much fun! Love it!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. *Now I have to go masturbate*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Always a good thing...*.
Click to expand...


I think you sent everyone off into privacy !


----------



## Paulie

dilloduck said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting that most people will be willing to offer someone an opportunity for redemption for just about ANY offense, but for some reason the issue of fidelity seems to be a deal breaker in a most absolute sense.
> 
> Why is that?  What the fuck is so important about the act of sex that it's put on some kind of pedestal like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> welcome---we've been exploring that very topic. Give it your best shot. There are some pretty honest women here who are assisting too. It's appreciated.
Click to expand...


Well I guess I should clarify by saying that I do find sex to be important in a relationship, but in other ways.  Good or bad sex can be a deal breaking situation, but I'm just no sure why a one-time cheat is considered so horrible.

The whole "once a cheat, always a cheat" thing is bullshit.  It's a cop out for someone who simply can't admit that they're insecure with themselves.

People make mistakes by virtue of being human.  That we have the capacity to forgive is one of the things that makes us special.  

There's no mistake that can't be redeemed for.


----------



## Lumpy 1

Sherry said:


> Wow, you guys have some mighty deep conversations after midnight. Good job, Lump.



Thanks.. this thread has turned out rather interesting, great twists and turns...


----------



## dilloduck

Lumpy 1 said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you guys have some mighty deep conversations after midnight. Good job, Lump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.. this thread has turned out rather interesting, great twists and turns...
Click to expand...


 I was just thinking about you.  We've come a long way from melons !
You should be ashamed of yourself !


----------



## AquaAthena

dilloduck said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Damnit woman, you are frustrating me. *Now I have to go masturbate*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Always a good thing...*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you sent everyone off into privacy !
Click to expand...


When we're hot we're HOT!!!


----------



## Lumpy 1

Anguille said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> The porn industry and how it makes money is not really a very good indicator of whether women have trouble controlling lust. Do you think porn is the only outlet for sexual frustration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so you are saying that women may do other things as a result of their hard wired lust ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm saying that the porn industry is geared more towards providing a product that men will buy. Because men have more money than women and because it's more socially accepted for men to indulge in porn. Porn doesn't do much for me. Not that I've given it much opportunity. My real life and my imagination pretty much give me what I need to feel satisfied.
Click to expand...


 Porn doesn't do much for me. Not that I've given it much opportunity. My real life and my imagination pretty much give me what I need to feel satisfied.[/QUOTE]

I'm with you on this.. add some memories and were there.


----------



## Lumpy 1

dilloduck said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you guys have some mighty deep conversations after midnight. Good job, Lump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.. this thread has turned out rather interesting, great twists and turns...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just thinking about you.  We've come a long way from melons !
> You should be ashamed of yourself !
Click to expand...


Ashamed.. Thank goodness your around.. I can always say,"hey, he's worse"..
and feel only slightly better..

This thread has given me some great ideas for posts/threads .. even the, "Great Dilloduck" could end up blushing...


----------



## Lumpy 1

Hey what happened to this thread..

I suspect everyone is now  caught up in the Glow..

I suppose now they'll just be relaxed and hungry...


----------



## LuckyDan

The ladies got bored.

Quick, Lump. Post something romantic.


----------



## Lumpy 1

LuckyDan said:


> The ladies got bored.
> 
> Quick, Lump. Post something romantic.



Sounds good... I'll give it a shot


----------



## Lumpy 1

AquaAthena said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Always a good thing...*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you sent everyone off into privacy !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When we're hot we're HOT!!!
Click to expand...


You're up for re-evaluation... better and better..


----------



## gslack

LOL, sorry for the delay my bathroom was occupied by my son....


----------



## RadiomanATL

Amanda said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> TMI about your sex life, Amanda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No no no....keep going....
> 
> 
> Need to borrow my camera?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually we have a water proof camera which comes in handy for more reasons than 1 might imagine without thinking about it a bit...
Click to expand...


@gmail.com


----------



## JW Frogen

LuckyDan said:


> Quick, Lump. Post something romantic.



Calgon take me away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## gslack

JW Frogen said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick, Lump. Post something romantic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calgon take me away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


Dam Jdub, you are one romantic guy....


----------



## dilloduck

gslack said:


> JW Frogen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick, Lump. Post something romantic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calgon take me away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dam Jdub, you are one romantic guy....
Click to expand...


I love him now


----------



## gslack

dilloduck said:


> gslack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JW Frogen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calgon take me away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dam Jdub, you are one romantic guy....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love him now
Click to expand...


----------



## xotoxi

Amanda said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
Click to expand...


That story is so moving...it touched me to my soul.


----------



## elvis

xotoxi said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That story is so moving...it touched me to my soul.
Click to expand...


in the immortal words of Robert Plant,  you (her post) hurt me to my soul.


----------



## Modbert

This has probably already been posted, but what the hey.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5--Sje98jI]YouTube - 4 Paul Simon BBC TV (50 Ways To Leave Your Lover)[/ame]


----------



## Ringel05

*Cheating on your Lover*

If you're married that would be having sex with your wife.  It's best not to tell your lover.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Hush you two. Don't ruin the chance at pics.


----------



## Modbert

RadiomanATL said:


> Hush you two. Don't ruin the chance at pics.



As they say, pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Now (pours a nice glass of white wine)....

Where were we Amanda....? Discussing lighting techniques and styles?


----------



## xotoxi

elvis said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That story is so moving...it touched me to my soul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> in the immortal words of Robert Plant,  you (her post) hurt me to my soul.
Click to expand...


Amanda can squeeze my lemon until the juice runs down my leg any day of the week.


----------



## RadiomanATL

RadiomanATL said:


> Now (pours a nice glass of white wine)....
> 
> Where were we Amanda....? Discussing lighting techniques and styles?



I am assuming that you are old enough to drink....right? If not, we'll talk about photographing bowls of fruit or Grandpa on the porch or something...


----------



## JW Frogen

xotoxi said:


> Amanda can squeeze my lemon until the juice runs down my leg any day of the week.




Pablo Neruda would have loved that line.


----------



## gslack

I just realized... I am older than many good wines now.....LOL


----------



## Luissa

Amanda said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
Click to expand...


You really need help, and I am being completely serious.


----------



## gslack

Luissa said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really need help, and I am being completely serious.
Click to expand...


Yeah I think some things should remain a fantasy....


----------



## geauxtohell

Amanda said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*.....
Click to expand...


Hmmm.  I am really tossed up on which response is more appropriate.  

This:






Or this:


----------



## Luissa




----------



## geauxtohell

And now I'd like to regale you all with personal stories about my relationship.....

Oh wait.

No one gives a fuck.*




*Except perverts.


----------



## Luissa

geauxtohell said:


> And now I'd like to regale you all with personal stories about my relationship.....
> 
> Oh wait.
> 
> No one gives a fuck.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Except perverts.



I am going to cry!


----------



## Frank

Luissa said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*. A good time was had by all. Everyone went home with their mate. Or stayed over in the room.
> 
> Trust is very important, but in a weird way it's also easier to give. Why would I want to cheat (have sex without my partner's knowledge) when I can have any man I want? Why would he ever cheat when he can have any woman he wants? Sex is fun, but it's different for us when it's between us or with other people. When I'm with my guy it's a deep emotional connection as well as a gratifying physical experience. When we're "playing" it's different. It's just fun. That's all. Mature people can do this and it can work. Fragile, emotionally weak people can't imagine how it can work. If you're counting on some social contract to keep your mate faithful then I pity you. You have NOTHING. My guy and I have something so much better. We have real trust. We talk about everything. We share what we enjoyed about our other partners. There's no jealousy, just learning how to please each other better and becoming so much closer for our ability to just open up and share.
> 
> Sometimes I have these dreams where my insecurities come out. I tell him about how I'm fearful of him getting back together with his ex, or how he'll be with someone that satisfies him better than I can. And he holds me close and tells me how I'm being silly, that no 1 could satisfy him better. We are THAT free to tell each other anything. He tells me how he sometimes worries I'll want some hardbody boy with a 9" cock instead of him. It's all so beautiful because we can truly share anything with each other. I don't know if it's because we swing or not, but I feel I have the best relationship EVER. I feel bad for anyone that can't be as free as we are with each other.
> 
> * She's part of a couple but her guy in in the Army and he's in Cali right now but they are ok with playing apart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really need help, and I am being completely serious.
Click to expand...


To each their own, but I've never been able to look at sex/swinging as "playing" or some game to act out.  Old fashioned, I suppose....


----------



## geauxtohell

Frank said:


> To each their own, but I've never been able to look at sex/swinging as "playing" or some game to act out.  Old fashioned, I suppose....



Or pragmatic enough to know that it's eventually going to wreck a relationship.  I am fairly young, but the only impression I have of the "lifestyle" is by observing others who are.  From that, my general impression is that rarely are both partners as enthusiastic about the ordeal and the less-than-enthusiastic one is usually the woman who is going through with this whole thing in a sad effort to try and hold on to their man.

People can live the lives they want.  I am just dubious that it's ever so rosey as it's portrayed.


----------



## Frank

geauxtohell said:


> Frank said:
> 
> 
> 
> To each their own, but I've never been able to look at sex/swinging as "playing" or some game to act out.  Old fashioned, I suppose....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or pragmatic enough to know that it's eventually going to wreck a relationship.  I am fairly young, but the only impression I have of the "lifestyle" is by observing others who are.  From that, my general impression is that rarely are both partners as enthusiastic about the ordeal and the less-than-enthusiastic one is usually the woman who is going through with this whole thing in a sad effort to try and hold on to their man.
> 
> People can live the lives they want.  I am just dubious that it's ever so rosey as it's portrayed.
Click to expand...


As a guy, I would be "less than enthusiastic" about it.  I saw this show on Discovery or something about swinging and I supposed, if both are OK with it, then so be it.  Like I said, it's just not for me and if I were with a woman who was into it, then that relationship would be very short lived.


----------



## George Costanza

goldcatt said:


> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.



Trust can be reestablished.  But getting rid of the bitterness is another matter.


----------



## Frank

George Costanza said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust can be reestablished.  But getting rid of the bitterness is another matter.
Click to expand...


Honestly, I don't even know that trust can be built back up again.  There may always be that nagging "voice in the back of one's mind"....


----------



## jillian

geauxtohell said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never understood the whole swinger deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmmm.  I am really tossed up on which response is more appropriate.
> 
> This:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or this:
Click to expand...


----------



## George Costanza

Frank said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust can be reestablished.  But getting rid of the bitterness is another matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Honestly, I don't even know that trust can be built back up again.  There may always be that nagging "voice in the back of one's mind"....
Click to expand...


Oh it can be.  It's called a short leash.  A VERY, VERY short leash.


----------



## George Costanza

jillian said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's not to understand?
> 
> Tonight we went to a party and ended up in a room with 3 other couples plus a single female*.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm.  I am really tossed up on which response is more appropriate.
> 
> This:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



I prefer the top picture.


----------



## fedup

I would like to hear everyone's definition of "cheating" other than the obvious "sex". I know of a few people that have been in relationships and have "met" people of the opposite sex online. Talked for months and even years...exchanged nude pictures and have even went to that person's house for a movie (although they claim no sex...whatever) and to them this is not cheating. I say any time your significant other is unaware of certain conversations, meetings and pictures. It is considered CHEATING! Am I crazy for thinking that way??


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Should merge this with the "Sex in a moving car" Thread and name it: 

"Have you ever cheated by having sex in a moving car"?


----------



## Lumpy 1

fedup said:


> I would like to hear everyone's definition of "cheating" other than the obvious "sex". I know of a few people that have been in relationships and have "met" people of the opposite sex online. Talked for months and even years...exchanged nude pictures and have even went to that person's house for a movie (although they claim no sex...whatever) and to them this is not cheating. I say any time your significant other is unaware of certain conversations, meetings and pictures. It is considered CHEATING! Am I crazy for thinking that way??



Judging by this thread people have rationalized different levels of defining cheating.

 My rationalization level includes some of what I consider innocent flirting, some non-threatening innuendo with some understanding that I'm happy married guy and things will go no where, just playful fun. Honestly.. I don't think my wife would even appreciate that but she is full of surprises, so who knows.

In general I'd say anything that effects trust between a couple could be considered cheating at some level. Seems to me though, you can't just expect your partner to know without some direct discussion on the subject or where you've learned their general attitude over time. 

For what you described and my criteria.. .I'd be seriously pissed... etc.


----------



## George Costanza

fedup said:


> I would like to hear everyone's definition of "cheating" other than the obvious "sex". I know of a few people that have been in relationships and have "met" people of the opposite sex online. Talked for months and even years...exchanged nude pictures and have even went to that person's house for a movie (although they claim no sex...whatever) and to them this is not cheating. I say any time your significant other is unaware of certain conversations, meetings and pictures. It is considered CHEATING! Am I crazy for thinking that way??



Not at all.  Never mind the nude pics, never mind meeting the person face to face - I submit that merely conducting an ongoing, regular relationship with someone of the opposite sex is cheating.  It isn't cheating in the same sense as an ongoing affair where you are banging your lover twice a week, but it is still cheating.

There's a simple test.  Are you disclosing everything you say and do with this other person online, to your spouse?  Can your spouse open your email and read it any time he/she wants?  Do you encourage him/her to do so?  No?  Why not?

Another simple test: If your spouse was as involved with some guy/gal as you are with your "online friend," how would YOU feel about it?  Be honest, now.

Jealousy is a touchy subject on Internet message boards such as this, because it seems everyone has a different tolerance level for it.  And then the subject of "trust" always gets injected into the conversation, which is a total red herring.

But I have strong views on this one.  Been there, done that.  No longer.


----------



## Lumpy 1

George Costanza said:


> fedup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to hear everyone's definition of "cheating" other than the obvious "sex". I know of a few people that have been in relationships and have "met" people of the opposite sex online. Talked for months and even years...exchanged nude pictures and have even went to that person's house for a movie (although they claim no sex...whatever) and to them this is not cheating. I say any time your significant other is unaware of certain conversations, meetings and pictures. It is considered CHEATING! Am I crazy for thinking that way??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all.  Never mind the nude pics, never mind meeting the person face to face - I submit that merely conducting an ongoing, regular relationship with someone of the opposite sex is cheating.  It isn't cheating in the same sense as an ongoing affair where you are banging your lover twice a week, but it is still cheating.
> 
> There's a simple test.  Are you disclosing everything you say and do with this other person online, to your spouse?  Can your spouse open your email and read it any time he/she wants?  Do you encourage him/her to do so?  No?  Why not?
> 
> Another simple test: If your spouse was as involved with some guy/gal as you are with your "online friend," how would YOU feel about it?  Be honest, now.
> 
> Jealousy is a touchy subject on Internet message boards such as this, because it seems everyone has a different tolerance level for it.  And then the subject of "trust" always gets injected into the conversation, which is a total red herring.
> 
> But I have strong views on this one.  Been there, done that.  No longer.
Click to expand...


Damn.. I feel impugned...... you have impugned Sir and I demand satisfaction..

 (And then the subject of "trust" always gets injected into the conversation, which is a total red herring.)

Well... ?  splain


----------



## dilloduck

seriously---trust factor is a red herring ?


----------



## goldcatt

dilloduck said:


> seriously---trust factor is a red herring ?



It's everything.


----------



## Coyote

hmmm....first we have a topic on Fat Asses, then we have a topic on Melons....now it's Cheating on your Spouse......



Lumpy....is there something you'd like to share with us? (taps foot)


----------



## Lumpy 1

For the young and uninformed including George Costanza... it would seem..

# Red herring (idiom), a deliberate attempt to divert attention
# Red herring (logical fallacy), a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument

Red herring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Anguille

George Costanza said:


> fedup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to hear everyone's definition of "cheating" other than the obvious "sex". I know of a few people that have been in relationships and have "met" people of the opposite sex online. Talked for months and even years...exchanged nude pictures and have even went to that person's house for a movie (although they claim no sex...whatever) and to them this is not cheating. I say any time your significant other is unaware of certain conversations, meetings and pictures. It is considered CHEATING! Am I crazy for thinking that way??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all.  Never mind the nude pics, never mind meeting the person face to face - I submit that merely conducting an ongoing, regular relationship with someone of the opposite sex is cheating.  It isn't cheating in the same sense as an ongoing affair where you are banging your lover twice a week, but it is still cheating.
> 
> There's a simple test.  Are you disclosing everything you say and do with this other person online, to your spouse?  Can your spouse open your email and read it any time he/she wants?  Do you encourage him/her to do so?  No?  Why not?
> 
> Another simple test: If your spouse was as involved with some guy/gal as you are with your "online friend," how would YOU feel about it?  Be honest, now.
> 
> Jealousy is a touchy subject on Internet message boards such as this, because it seems everyone has a different tolerance level for it.  And then the subject of "trust" always gets injected into the conversation, which is a total red herring.
> 
> But I have strong views on this one.  Been there, done that.  No longer.
Click to expand...

You both make good points however I think it's important to remember that your spouse cannot be everything for you. It's not healthy or even realistic to depend on one person to be your closest friend in every single aspect of your life.


----------



## xotoxi

George Costanza said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust can be reestablished.  But getting rid of the bitterness is another matter.
Click to expand...


How about getting rid of the bitterness that is left in your mouth after licking envelopes?


----------



## Lumpy 1

Coyote said:


> hmmm....first we have a topic on Fat Asses, then we have a topic on Melons....now it's Cheating on your Spouse......
> 
> 
> 
> Lumpy....is there something you'd like to share with us? (taps foot)



Let's see Fat Asses..Sweet Luscious Melons.. Cheating on your Lover...  followed by ...Where's the Romance.... and ending with the...Rubber Room...

Hey .... well .. ah....damn .....


----------



## JW Frogen

You are on a roll Lump.


----------



## George Costanza

xotoxi said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's up to the individuals and the relationship. For some people it's a real dealbreaker, for others it's salvageable. I can't imagine it ever being painless though, and for me at least trust would be very hard to re-establish. In general I'd say if you're going to give your word, keep it. Or don't give it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust can be reestablished.  But getting rid of the bitterness is another matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about getting rid of the bitterness that is left in your mouth after licking envelopes?
Click to expand...


I miss Susan.  Wanna go to a movie?


----------



## George Costanza

Anguille said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fedup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to hear everyone's definition of "cheating" other than the obvious "sex". I know of a few people that have been in relationships and have "met" people of the opposite sex online. Talked for months and even years...exchanged nude pictures and have even went to that person's house for a movie (although they claim no sex...whatever) and to them this is not cheating. I say any time your significant other is unaware of certain conversations, meetings and pictures. It is considered CHEATING! Am I crazy for thinking that way??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all.  Never mind the nude pics, never mind meeting the person face to face - I submit that merely conducting an ongoing, regular relationship with someone of the opposite sex is cheating.  It isn't cheating in the same sense as an ongoing affair where you are banging your lover twice a week, but it is still cheating.
> 
> There's a simple test.  Are you disclosing everything you say and do with this other person online, to your spouse?  Can your spouse open your email and read it any time he/she wants?  Do you encourage him/her to do so?  No?  Why not?
> 
> Another simple test: If your spouse was as involved with some guy/gal as you are with your "online friend," how would YOU feel about it?  Be honest, now.
> 
> Jealousy is a touchy subject on Internet message boards such as this, because it seems everyone has a different tolerance level for it.  And then the subject of "trust" always gets injected into the conversation, which is a total red herring.
> 
> But I have strong views on this one.  Been there, done that.  No longer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You both make good points however I think it's important to remember that your spouse cannot be everything for you. It's not healthy or even realistic to depend on one person to be your closest friend in every single aspect of your life.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you are probably right.  So, um, you wanna PM me your email address . . . . ?


----------



## gslack

This thread went and got all moral and lost me LOL


----------



## RadiomanATL

24 hours and no pics.

Y'all suck.


----------



## Samson

RadiomanATL said:


> 24 hours and no pics.
> 
> Y'all suck.




OK:







Happy?


----------



## gslack

Aaaaaahhhhhh!


----------



## RadiomanATL

Samson said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 24 hours and no pics.
> 
> Y'all suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy?
Click to expand...



If thats a personal pic of you and your wife...


I'm sorry.


----------



## DH1390

Damn paparazzi, letting these close, personal, intimate moments get out into the world.


----------



## Frank

Samson said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 24 hours and no pics.
> 
> Y'all suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy?
Click to expand...


That's wrong.


----------



## Intense

Samson said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 24 hours and no pics.
> 
> Y'all suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy?
Click to expand...


Help!!!!!


----------



## fedup

After 5 yrs. of being with someone and having discussed cheating, we both knew where we stood (or so I thought). As far as having the password to the email...I did (he gave me the password to one of his emails) but the one he was emailing this "whore" from was a secret email. I found it by accident. To top it all of he met this person on an online website for sex! 

I have learned you never really know a person. The hurt is unbearable but I try to put it behind me and move on. As they say "live and learn".


----------



## Intense

fedup said:


> After 5 yrs. of being with someone and having discussed cheating, we both knew where we stood (or so I thought). As far as having the password to the email...I did (he gave me the password to one of his emails) but the one he was emailing this "whore" from was a secret email. I found it by accident. To top it all of he met this person on an online website for sex!
> 
> I have learned you never really know a person. The hurt is unbearable but I try to put it behind me and move on. As they say "live and learn".



It always amazed me growing up, how the girl's generally fell for the biggest asshole's in the group. 
Hint, if he spends more time in the bath room, standing in front of mirrors, or getting dressed than you, move on.  
If he's prettier than you, move on. 
If your undies get mysteriously stretched out all the time, move on. 
If he spends more time talking on the phone, move on. If he is too cheap to order a drink and fries with his meal, then devours yours, move on. 
If You have not been able to see the first 10 minutes of every movie you have gone to in the last 5 years because he is late, move on. 
If he is the exception to every rule, move on.


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## Shadow

Intense said:


> fedup said:
> 
> 
> 
> After 5 yrs. of being with someone and having discussed cheating, we both knew where we stood (or so I thought). As far as having the password to the email...I did (he gave me the password to one of his emails) but the one he was emailing this "whore" from was a secret email. I found it by accident. To top it all of he met this person on an online website for sex!
> 
> I have learned you never really know a person. The hurt is unbearable but I try to put it behind me and move on. As they say "live and learn".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It always amazed me growing up, how the girl's generally fell for the biggest asshole's in the group.
> Hint, if he spends more time in the bath room, standing in front of mirrors, or getting dressed than you, move on.
> If he's prettier than you, move on.
> If your undies get mysteriously stretched out all the time, move on.
> If he spends more time talking on the phone, move on. If he is too cheap to order a drink and fries with his meal, then devours yours, move on.
> If You have not been able to see the first 10 minutes of every movie you have gone to in the last 5 years because he is late, move on.
> *If he is the exception to every rule, move on.*
Click to expand...


Don't they all think this though.


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## Intense

Shadow said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fedup said:
> 
> 
> 
> After 5 yrs. of being with someone and having discussed cheating, we both knew where we stood (or so I thought). As far as having the password to the email...I did (he gave me the password to one of his emails) but the one he was emailing this "whore" from was a secret email. I found it by accident. To top it all of he met this person on an online website for sex!
> 
> I have learned you never really know a person. The hurt is unbearable but I try to put it behind me and move on. As they say "live and learn".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It always amazed me growing up, how the girl's generally fell for the biggest asshole's in the group.
> Hint, if he spends more time in the bath room, standing in front of mirrors, or getting dressed than you, move on.
> If he's prettier than you, move on.
> If your undies get mysteriously stretched out all the time, move on.
> If he spends more time talking on the phone, move on. If he is too cheap to order a drink and fries with his meal, then devours yours, move on.
> If You have not been able to see the first 10 minutes of every movie you have gone to in the last 5 years because he is late, move on.
> *If he is the exception to every rule, move on.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't they all think this though.
Click to expand...


Before or after puberty?


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## George Costanza

Intense said:


> It always amazed me growing up, how the girl's generally fell for the biggest asshole's in the group.



Every day I walk into court and every day, there is at least one STONE fox sitting there in the audience.  Who do you think she is there to see?

Hint: It isn't me.


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## George Costanza

Barb said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree---vows provide a woman with the *promise* of emotional security and that promise will sustain most women as long as she doesn't have evidence to the contrary. Some women accuse men of cheating after vows even if there is no evidence. I guess they need more than vows--therapy maybe ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman who feels ignored by her husband -be he faithful and benign in all respects, will be easy to pull.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's kind of an over generalization.
> For four years, plenty of opportunity, and no interest.
> BAM, walking down the street one day, and every system wakes up to full attention.
> One person was responsible for that, completely oblivious, and so out of the question that it defies reason.
> If there is a higher being, it has a wholly inappropriate sense of humor.
Click to expand...


Thank you.  There is still hope . . .


----------



## Frank

George Costanza said:


> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amazed me growing up, how the girl's generally fell for the biggest asshole's in the group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every day I walk into court and every day, there is at least one STONE fox sitting there in the audience.  Who do you think she is there to see?
> 
> Hint: It isn't me.
Click to expand...


It's the "good guy" syndrome.  You know, the one where women are always attracted to "bad boys".


----------



## Sherry

Frank said:


> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intense said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amazed me growing up, how the girl's generally fell for the biggest asshole's in the group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every day I walk into court and every day, there is at least one STONE fox sitting there in the audience.  Who do you think she is there to see?
> 
> Hint: It isn't me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the "good guy" syndrome.  You know, the one where women are always attracted to "bad boys".
Click to expand...


Is there a male equivalent??


----------



## Frank

Sherry said:


> Frank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Costanza said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every day I walk into court and every day, there is at least one STONE fox sitting there in the audience.  Who do you think she is there to see?
> 
> Hint: It isn't me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the "good guy" syndrome.  You know, the one where women are always attracted to "bad boys".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there a male equivalent??
Click to expand...


Is she breathing?


----------



## Samson

Frank said:


> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frank said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the "good guy" syndrome.  You know, the one where women are always attracted to "bad boys".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a male equivalent??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is she breathing?
Click to expand...


Picky.


----------



## JW Frogen

Samson said:


> Frank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sherry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a male equivalent??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is she breathing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Picky.
Click to expand...


Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ZippyDippyDoo

Are these the 'symptoms' of cheaters?

cheating boy friend girfriend


----------



## Lumpy 1

ZippyDippyDoo said:


> Are these the 'symptoms' of cheaters?
> 
> cheating boy friend girfriend



Your link.. well.. it sucks...


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## jaw2929

Been cheated ON, never been the one to do the cheating. I'm more straight-forward & honest than to do the bullshit "behind the back" game.


----------

