# How to Deal with the Family Criminal?...



## Anathema (Oct 4, 2016)

I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.

If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.

Some of you know that my wife was raped and sexually assaulted on multiple occasions as a pre-teen. She still suffers the PTSD effects of those incidents even after nearly a decade of counseling (she repressed the memories for over a decade).

Assuming my uncle is released, there is a very high probability that he will be at certain family events that my wife and I also attend.

My wife has made it extremely clear that she wants nothing to do with him. I agree and feel the same way. However, my mother has made it very clear that she wants and expects me (not my wife) to at least be cordial to him at these events. I'd rather simply avoid him completely. If for no other reason than keeping me from causing a scene when I kick his ass.

What do you folks think? Any advice or suggestions on how to handle this sort of situation?


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Just treat him with civility and forget the bullshit. 

If a situation develops, it would be because you created it.


----------



## Pumpkin Row (Oct 4, 2016)

_Avoid him like airborne herpes. If he goes out of his way to speak to you, you don't have to outright say it for him to know that you want to cave his skull in. Your attitude can say it without words._


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Pumpkin Row said:


> _ If he goes out of his way to speak to you, you don't have to outright say it for him to know that you want to cave his skull in. Your attitude can say it without words._



Could we stop with the suburban savagery?

Anathema was not slighted and he is not a victim. He is acting like one.


----------



## Pumpkin Row (Oct 4, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Pumpkin Row said:
> 
> 
> > _ If he goes out of his way to speak to you, you don't have to outright say it for him to know that you want to cave his skull in. Your attitude can say it without words._
> ...


_Someone doesn't have to wrong you specifically to be a piece of trash._


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Pumpkin Row said:


> _Someone doesn't have to wrong you specifically to be a piece of trash._



It does make you annoyingly judgmental. Society needs less self righteous crusaders.

The person in reference is not Earl Bradley. The weight the OP assigns to the word criminal is silly as hell.


----------



## westwall (Oct 4, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.
> 
> If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.
> 
> ...








Any function he attends I simply would not.  He's a pariah and he will do nothing but harm to your family.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 4, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.
> 
> If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.
> 
> ...



I would tell your Mom to enjoy his company, that you will not be in attendance.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

westwall said:


> Any function he attends I simply would not.  He's a pariah and he will do nothing but harm to your family.



He is only a pariah when you have self righteous crusaders acting like they are any better.

This guys crimes all seem like they _should_ be misdemeanors.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> I would tell your Mom to enjoy his company, that you will not be in attendance.



So stay 5000 feet away from any convicted criminals?

Tell me what I am not understanding. A man goes to jail and he suddenly becomes equated to a child killing satanist?


----------



## Pumpkin Row (Oct 4, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Pumpkin Row said:
> 
> 
> > _Someone doesn't have to wrong you specifically to be a piece of trash._
> ...


_As far as you know. In his position, I'd shun the guy, too._


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 4, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > I would tell your Mom to enjoy his company, that you will not be in attendance.
> ...



Try reading the OP.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Pumpkin Row said:


> _As far as you know. In his position, I'd shun the guy, too._



So you block off all communication with anybody that has been locked up by the Federal Government?

Not only that, but you judge them as bad people for that simple fact alone? Create drama and silliness to establish a pariah which does not need to exist?


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Try reading the OP.



I did.

What did I miss in the OP?


----------



## Pumpkin Row (Oct 4, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Pumpkin Row said:
> 
> 
> > _As far as you know. In his position, I'd shun the guy, too._
> ...


_It's not drama if you avoid them, and show you prefer not to deal with them. _


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Pumpkin Row said:


> _It's not drama if you avoid them, and show you prefer not to deal with them. _



It is definitely drama.

Everything being advocated for is using overt drama to create a black sheep which does not need to exist. It is not only silly, but quite cruel as well.


----------



## Pumpkin Row (Oct 4, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Pumpkin Row said:
> 
> 
> > _It's not drama if you avoid them, and show you prefer not to deal with them. _
> ...


_Serves him right for what he did._


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

Pumpkin Row said:


> _Serves him right for what he did._



What he did?

So you never once invaded anybodies privacy? Never peeked through a diary or perved on anybody? Do you believe that behavior warrants being exiled and punished by your own family members?

Or were you referring to child endangerment? You better believe there is not a single parent who has not been reckless around their child


----------



## westwall (Oct 4, 2016)

Onyx said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Any function he attends I simply would not.  He's a pariah and he will do nothing but harm to your family.
> ...






Wrong.  Any contact with him will be a constant source of irritation to the wife.  The dude's a pedophile.  They have a 100% recidivism rate.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

This thread represents the same error in the honor systems in Eastern countries.

The amount of drama the offended party instigates is always a lot worse than the conjectural disgrace brought against them.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 4, 2016)

westwall said:


> Wrong.  Any contact with him will be a constant source of irritation to the wife.  The dude's a pedophile.



Pedophile?  That is nowhere in the OP. You are just making stuff up that you had not read.

 Child endangerment and invasion of privacy are something like 1 year sentences on their own. The sex offender registry probably refers to the invasion of privacy charge, and the OP provided no details on what that constituted, but if it has been a child he would of been locked up for more than 8 years.



> They have a 100% recidivism rate.



That's false, but not relevant to this thread either way.

The OP said nothing about the person in question being a pedophile or having the appropriate charges.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 5, 2016)

I work with a sex offender.

He was 20, had too much Corona, and took a whiz in some shrubbery.


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong.  Any contact with him will be a constant source of irritation to the wife.  The dude's a pedophile.
> ...








I think you did not read the OP very well.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> I would tell your Mom to enjoy his company, that you will not be in attendance.



That concept has been considered, but it cuts,us off from a large percentage of family activities that we enjoy because my mother and two of my second cousins (my uncle's cousins) have decided to try and rehabilitate this man's standing in the family and reintegration him into family activities.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

Rather than replying to a dozen comments individually, let me put some additional info out there......

Yes, he is a pedophile. He was charged with 38 counts pertaining get to taking video of 25 young girls (ages 11-14) changing clothes in his home photography studio and/or exposing himself to them during photo shoots. There was never any reported physical contact. He plead guilty to the charges.

That's why this is such an issue for my wife and me. As I mentioned, my wife was sexually abused as a child, and I get to see the long term repercussions of that every day. 

My mother, and 2 of my uncle's cousins have been corresponding with him in prison. He's supposedly turned his,life around and they want to try to reintegration him into the family. I don't believe in second chances for sex offenders. He'll, I'd be more open to this if he was a murderer instead of a pedophile. 

Total avoidance is probably not an option. I wish it was, but that would simply ensure we don't get to see large portions of my family or attend most family events.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> I think you did not read the OP very well.



Clearly you did not.

You just said the person in question was a pedophile, although the OP does not validate that.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Clearly you did not.
> 
> You just said the person in question was a pedophile, although the OP does not validate that.



If you'd read all the way to the bottom before posting, you would have seen my comment this morning confirming Westwall's correctness in this matter.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Yes, he is a pedophile. He was charged with 38 counts pertaining get to taking video of 25 young girls (ages 11-14) changing clothes in his home photography studio and/or exposing himself to them during photo shoots. There was never any reported physical contact. He plead guilty to the charges.
> 
> That's why this is such an issue for my wife and me. As I mentioned, my wife was sexually abused as a child, and I get to see the long term repercussions of that every day.



Okay, thanks for providing more information.

I just want to note that there is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester, and it is possible that your uncle is actually ashamed of his actions and his attractions. I believe you should not give up on family, and his past convictions signify that he needs help and not hatred.

Due to the circumstances in your own life (involving your wife), I believe it would actually be a good idea to avoid contact. What I would not do is intentionally create a toxic environment which does not need to exist. It would not help any of the involved parties.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> If you'd read all the way to the bottom before posting, you would have seen my comment this morning confirming Westwall's correctness in this matter.



I just noticed, although I am not going to applaud Westwall for making baseless assumptions without knowing all the information.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.
> 
> If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.
> 
> ...



if the uncle was the perp 

have the courts *if they havent already *

place a distance restraining order 

from the victim(s)


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Jarlaxle said:


> I work with a sex offender.
> 
> He was 20, had too much Corona, and took a whiz in some shrubbery.



This is a huge problem with the sex offender registry. 

It is easy to get on, but impossible to get off.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

jon_berzerk said:


> if the uncle was the perp.....



He was not. If he had been, he'd already be dead. As will the man who did rape her, if I ever catch up with him.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> He was not. If he had been, he'd already be dead. As will the man who did rape her, if I ever catch up with him.



Don't you think it is strange that your wife is still manifesting troubled psyche for something that had happened 40-60 years ago (considering you self identify as a crotchety old man)

She clearly never got proper closure.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> I just want to note that there is a difference between a pedophile and a child molester, and it is possible that your uncle is actually ashamed of his actions and his attractions. I believe you should not give up on family, and his past convictions signify that he needs help and not hatred.



Being remorseful doesn't take away what the victims have to deal with for the rest of their lives. I don't hate him; I just want to forget he even exists. 



Onyx said:


> Due to the circumstances in your own life (involving your wife), I believe it would actually be a good idea to avoid contact. What I would not do is intentionally create a toxic environment which does not need to exist. It would not help any of the involved parties.



I would love to totally avoid contact. That was our initial plan. However, I don't want to throw away our ability to congregate with the rest of the family because of him.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Don't you think it is strange that your wife is still manifesting troubled psyche for something that had happened 40-60 years ago (considering you self identify as a crotchety old man)
> 
> She clearly never got proper closure.



No I don't think it's strange that a horrific set of events that happened 20-25 years ago still affects her psyche. Her mind repressed these memories from her preteen years until she was 25 years old. Her own family refused to support her when the memories came to the surface. Even after a decade there are still new memories and details that she is just remembering. 

Her assailant was never punished for his crimes. She and I deal with this without any emotional support from most of her family. It's us and her therapist against her own mind and memories.


----------



## Papageorgio (Oct 5, 2016)

Tough situation. I would go to the functions and if he tries to start up a conversation, simply excuse yourself. He will figure it out and then be smart enough to leave you alone.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I would love to totally avoid contact. That was our initial plan. However, I don't want to throw away our ability to congregate with the rest of the family because of him.



It is easy to emphasize with someone in a situation like yours.

My advice would be to forget about it and have a good time with the rest of your family. I would avoid making the situation toxic, because the only way to resolve a toxic situation is through hard confrontation, which is not something most people desire.

Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide to do. Thanks for sharing about what is going on in your life.


----------



## G.T. (Oct 5, 2016)

I think the fact that your wife is a victim of abuse, and you proudly advised this board that you strike your wife, you belong in prison with him and neither of you stone ages feral savages belong at anyone's family gatherings.


----------



## Compost (Oct 5, 2016)

You might consider holding a separate family gathering at your house, inviting only those you and your wife want to visit with.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> Onyx said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Link?  Seems high.

But I know, I know, it's the era of Trump.  Facts need not apply.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Onyx said:
> 
> 
> > Don't you think it is strange that your wife is still manifesting troubled psyche for something that had happened 40-60 years ago (considering you self identify as a crotchety old man)
> ...



Then you should harbor more ill-will toward her family members than to someone else convicted of a sex crime that in no way involved your wife.

Your animosity for your uncle just seems bizarre to me.  Avoid the guy.  No big deal.  Don't engage.  If he wants to, politely make your position clear. 

We have an unhealthy animosity toward anyone locked up in this country.  If you do time for most any offense, we vilify you.  You're irredeemable.  Hell, your uncle may have been abused himself.  That's typically what sparks an abuser.  Perhaps he may share that and in that way have something in COMMON with your wife?  We need more empathy and less hatred.  And not just for you.  For your wife, as well.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

G.T. said:


> I think the fact that your wife is a victim of abuse, and* you proudly advised this board that you strike your wife*, you belong in prison with him and neither of you stone ages feral savages belong at anyone's family gatherings.



Did I miss something?


----------



## G.T. (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> G.T. said:
> 
> 
> > I think the fact that your wife is a victim of abuse, and* you proudly advised this board that you strike your wife*, you belong in prison with him and neither of you stone ages feral savages belong at anyone's family gatherings.
> ...


Yes, Anathema hits his wife but thinks its "ok" because she "agrees" to it as a form of corporal punishment.


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > If you'd read all the way to the bottom before posting, you would have seen my comment this morning confirming Westwall's correctness in this matter.
> ...








My wife is a PhD psychologist.  I am very adept at reading between the lines, added to the extraordinary length of time he had to serve in prison it was a no brainer.  Every study done about the recidivism rates are based on incredibly poor factual data.  Thus you get wildly variable estimates of recidivism.  However, one of my wifes friends is the head of the Denver area (Arapahoe Country) mental health division, and according to her internal numbers there is a 100% recidivism rate.  The reason being the perpetrators truly believe the children love them.  There are other studies that show it to be incurable, once again because of the underlying belief that they are completely normal and do not understand that children are incapable of making those sorts of decisions.

There is loads of research available but it is all behind paywalls so I am unable to link you to it.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Then you should harbor more ill-will toward her family members than to someone else convicted of a sex crime that in no way involved your wife.



My frustration and annoyance with my in-laws is well known in the family. I find sex crimes and other Moral deviance to be inexcusable. There are no excuses or harsh enough punishments for such people in my mind.



GaryDog said:


> Your animosity for your uncle just seems bizarre to me.  Avoid the guy.  No big deal.  Don't engage.  If he wants to, politely make your position clear.



The problem is that avoiding him will likely mean having to avoid other family members whom I like, as well. We don't get together often as we're spread over the entire Northeast at this point.



GaryDog said:


> We have an unhealthy animosity toward anyone locked up in this country.  If you do time for most any offense, we vilify you.  You're irredeemable.  Hell, your uncle may have been abused himself.  That's typically what sparks an abuser.  Perhaps he may share that and in that way have something in COMMON with your wife?  We need more empathy and less hatred.  And not just for you.  For your wife, as well.



He was likely molested himself. That's not an excuse for doing it to others. My wife doesn't even want to see him, never mind converse.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > Then you should harbor more ill-will toward her family members than to someone else convicted of a sex crime that in no way involved your wife.
> ...



Indeed, he was a victim.  It's pathological that victims often become abusers.  To throw them out with the trash is to perpetuate the cycle of abuse, and make sure it carries on.  Your attitude in no way helps your wife, or people like her.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> Onyx said:
> 
> 
> > Anathema said:
> ...



I see, so you're citing third-hand anecdotal evidence about one county in Colorado.  Great.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Indeed, he was a victim.  It's pathological that victims often become abusers.  To throw them out with the trash is to perpetuate the cycle of abuse, and make sure it carries on.  Your attitude in no way helps your wife, or people like her.



I'm not throwing anyone out. I'm simply suggesting that I have no interest in associating with a convicted sex offender. He's gone from prey to predator. THAT is the difference between him and my wife, and why I have little to no compassion for him. 

On the other hand my wife is still a victim. I have the greatest respect and compassion for what she went through and is still going through. I'm pretty much the only one there to help her deal with it.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, he was a victim.  It's pathological that victims often become abusers.  To throw them out with the trash is to perpetuate the cycle of abuse, and make sure it carries on.  Your attitude in no way helps your wife, or people like her.
> ...



Sounds like she could use FAR better help.


----------



## Compost (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema owes his loyalty to his wife first.  If his wife's difficulties are likely to be exacerbated by the presence of Uncle Ex-convict, it makes no sense that Anathema would bring his wife to a gathering where Uncle Ex-convict is present.


----------



## IsaacNewton (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.
> 
> If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.
> 
> ...



Are you kidding, for you wife you just don't go. With all the toxic history there it would be best to avoid contact.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 5, 2016)

*Thread has been moved to The Lounge, as it's a better fit - please remember Lounge Rules apply *


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Onyx said:
> ...








No, I also mentioned all of the studies that are behind paywalls so can't provide a link.  Please read my posts fully instead of trying to pick stupid fights for no reason.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 5, 2016)

If family gatherings are infrequent, and you would like to go to see other members, can you go and simply avoid him?

It sounds like a tricky situation.  I believe in second chances, once one has served prison time - but - it's hugely different when it is a member of your own family that's at the heart of it.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Sounds like she could use FAR better help.



What she really needs is for certain members of her family to get over their egos and personal pride so she can bring them into her healing process. Unfortunately, I don't see either of her parents or her sisters doing that. They would rather ignore, forget, or downplay what happened for their own benefit, even if it prolongs my wife's suffering.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

Compost said:


> Anathema owes his loyalty to his wife first.  If his wife's difficulties are likely to be exacerbated by the presence of Uncle Ex-convict, it makes no sense that Anathema would bring his wife to a gathering where Uncle Ex-convict is present.



True. That's been considered as an option and is still on the table. Unfortunately that means essentially cutting ourselves off from most of my family relative to holidays and family gatherings (weddings, funerals, reunions, etc...) which we don't really want to do.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like she could use FAR better help.
> ...


 
One of my best friends was molested by her brother and it continues to mess with her, even with therapy and a lot of insight.  Her family downplayed it, and he passed away at a young age in a motorcycle accident so it was never resolved.  Things like that never really go away.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 5, 2016)

Coyote said:


> If family gatherings are infrequent, and you would like to go to see other members, can you go and simply avoid him?
> 
> It sounds like a tricky situation.  I believe in second chances, once one has served prison time - but - it's hugely different when it is a member of your own family that's at the heart of it.



We can go and see people individually. What this really affects are group outings like holidays, weddings, funerals, our yearly reunion, etc....


----------



## Papageorgio (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Onyx said:
> ...


Even when it's not about politics, some nutjob makes it political.


----------



## Papageorgio (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be cured. They are a very manipulative group.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 5, 2016)

I'd go to the events but pull him aside and tell him to stay away from you and your wife. Carry some pepper spray in case he forgets.


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...







Indeed they are.  That's why they are able to molest so many kids before they are ever caught.  I don't remember the exact number but it was around 35 victims per perp before they were caught.  Truly sad.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> Worked as a minister in the prison system and what you are saying is pretty much what the staff, medical and non medical will tell you. Most of the abuser will tell you they will never be *cured*. They are a very manipulative group.



You cannot cure pedophilia. It is the same broken theory behind homosexual conversion therapy.

Molesters have a high recidivism rate because they already surpassed the threshold. They have already proven that the drive to satiate their desires outweighs their empathy for the victim.

There is no correlation between subconscious sexual desires and behavioral psychology, so accusing the group as a whole of being manipulative is as silly as accusing all homosexuals of being flamboyant and girly.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



No, I rightly ignored those, since they produced no content from you.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...



I don't know how that's much different from drug addicts or other kinds of criminals.  The only difference is we place an ENORMOUS stigma on sexual offenders, so in the event any of them wants to seek help, we're only ready to offer it in the form of "pepper spray"  (as one poster suggested), vigilante murder (as others have suggested), or shunning (as is the main thrust of this thread from the OP).

Our country has rejected the idea that people who have been convicted of crimes are human beings.  And it has clearly been a philosophy that has failed us.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...


Nonsense. They are treated pretty well and often given a second chance. and third. And fourth.  That doesn't mean we ignore the nature of the crime though, pedophiles need to be kept on a short leash. The dama ge they do may be irreparable and like has been said, may continue the cycle of abuse.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



Compared to the resources we provide in terms of treatment for drug addicts and even spousal abuser, do, we do not "treat them pretty well."


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...








Only because you're not smart enough to understand the basics.  It's OK.  You might catch up.  Keep trying!


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



YOU'RE unable to produce the evidence and you put it on me for "not understanding the basics."

LMAO, you're an idiot.


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...








No, I provided you the experience of one professional, and if you wish to pay the fees I will be happy to provide you with the studies.



Here's one I found that is not paywalled.

http://www.paedofiles.com/main/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/12/pedophiles.pdf


Oh, lookey.  Here's another one.  Not as current as I would like but no pesky pay wall...

"*Research has demonstrated that repeat offenders account for a disproportionate amount of crime and that offenders released from prison are arrested at rates 30 to 45 times higher than the general population (Rosenfeld, Wallman, & Formango, 2005).* As a result, there is widespread recognition today that recidivism has a direct impact on public safety and that recidivism reduction should be a key goal of the criminal justice system. This is particularly true with regard to crimes that are sexual in nature, given their impact on individual victims and the larger community (see chapter 1, "Incidence and Prevalence of Sexual Offending," in the Adult section)."


Chapter 5: Adult Sex Offender Recidivism | Sex Offender Management Assessment and Planning Initiative


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...


Sure we do. They aren't curable and we don't pump bullets into their brain pans like we ought to.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



And what's your expertise in this matter?  Judging by your choice of words, my guess is you're no smarter than the OP.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...


What's yours? Personal experience? I've heard from many sources for many years they MAY alter behavior but the desire stays.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 5, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...




 So in other words it's exactly like drug and alcohol addiction. Thank you for conceding the point finally


----------



## Dragonlady (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Any function he attends I simply would not.  He's a pariah and he will do nothing but harm to your family.
> ...



Sex offences against children from a photographer are NOT misdemeanours.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Dragonlady said:


> Sex offences against children from a photographer are NOT misdemeanours.



That information was not presented when my comment was made.


----------



## Papageorgio (Oct 5, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...



We treat them fine, they get extensive counseling. The court system tries to rehab this group, how ever sexual deviants very rarely reform because the things that sexually excites them, power and control, does not change inside their minds.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> We treat them fine, they get extensive counseling. The court system tries to rehab this group, how ever sexual deviants very rarely reform because the things that sexually excites them, power and control, does not change inside their minds.



All sex is based on power and control. 

The problem is not their psyche. It is the fact that they have proven that their sexual desires outweigh their empathy for the victim.


----------



## esthermoon (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.
> 
> If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.
> 
> ...


We all make mistakes.
Treat him like you would treat another person.
At the end he's not Charles Manson


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

esthermoon said:


> At the end he's not Charles Manson



Not a bad guy by the way. Probably would be one of the best folk artists of our time if he had some good recording equipment in prison.


----------



## esthermoon (Oct 5, 2016)

I read something about him. Some people say he didn't do anything against the law. I hope for him this is not true because if he's not guilty he's spending all his life behind bars 
Maybe I should have said "at the end he's not Ted Bundy" 
He was a bad guy for sure 
(I really like his voice. I didn't know he could sing )


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

esthermoon said:


> I read something about him. Some people say he didn't do anything against the law. I hope for him this is not true because if he's not guilty he's spending all his life behind bars



I believe he committed mercenary for hire. He could of been paroled many times, but they always deemed him too crazy to be released. 



> (I really like his voice. I didn't know he could sing )



Yeah, he is actually a pretty inspired artist in my opinion. Here is a more upbeat song.


----------



## esthermoon (Oct 5, 2016)

I read that every five years they deny him parole because they think he's crazy.
but if he's really crazy why don't they send him to a mental asylum?
that could be a proper decision I guess


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Oct 5, 2016)

What you don't say leaves too much room for conjecture.   You make it appear that your wife was raped by this guy and gets triggered when she sees him.  Is that true?

From the charges and circumstances, photography business, child endangerment, did he go to prison for kiddie porn?

I can't fill in the blanks but if those things are true, don't go.  You don't need the heartburn.


----------



## Dragonlady (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > Sex offences against children from a photographer are NOT misdemeanours.
> ...



I got it from the original post.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 5, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.
> 
> If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.
> 
> ...


One day when your mother is gone you'll never see him again. And if he visits her Saturday ID visit on Sunday.

When you have to see him I'm sure other people will be around so you can avoid him

Also consider he paid his dues. He served his time. He owes you and your wife nothing. If he didn't rape your wife then she's punishing him for something he didn't do. 

I have a sex offender former friend. I told him sorry but I can never hang out with you again. 

You are the sum of the five people you hang out with the most. One of my five can't be a sex offender.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Dragonlady said:


> I got it from the original post.



Impossible. That information was not available in the OP.


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Dragonlady said:
> 
> 
> > I got it from the original post.
> ...






Yes, it was.  Color me usurprised that you think Manson is a good guy.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> Color me usurprised that you think Manson is a good guy.



I have a different idea of morality than you. 

Charles Manson fought for something he believed in. That instantly makes him better than most people in my book. I do not agree with his theories, but I respect him for playing the game. It is of no consequence that he lost.


----------



## westwall (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Color me usurprised that you think Manson is a good guy.
> ...









Rational morality.  Nope.  I have ethics.  Ethics don't change like the wind.  It is wrong to murder people who have nothing to do with what you are fighting about.  The fact that you support such idiocy merely reinforces my low opinion of you.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

westwall said:


> It is wrong to murder people who have nothing to do with what you are fighting about.



I do not believe in ethics so much as I believe in respecting the human condition.



> The fact that you support such idiocy merely reinforces my low opinion of you.



I do not support what Charles Manson did (mercenary for hire), but I respect him for doing it.

Understand?


----------



## Papageorgio (Oct 5, 2016)

Onyx said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Color me usurprised that you think Manson is a good guy.
> ...



Hitler fought for something he believed in.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 5, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> Hitler fought for something he believed in.



Yeah, but Hitler did not respect the human condition. 

There was no growth. He died overwhelmed by hatred for his fellow man. I do not buy that Hitler really bought into his own bullshit. Especially with all the scapegoating and backstabbing.


----------



## westwall (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > It is wrong to murder people who have nothing to do with what you are fighting about.
> ...







The human condition IS ethics.  You feel that Manson played the "game" well.  The problem with that is real people died, so it really wasn't a "game" now was it.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...


What point did I concede? You make up arguments and victories so you can live with your pathetic self? People do overcome drugs and alcohol in this reality but they have nothing to do with seeing a sex object when looking at a child. That means your brain is corrupt and as far as I am concerned, can be disposed of.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > We treat them fine, they get extensive counseling. The court system tries to rehab this group, how ever sexual deviants very rarely reform because the things that sexually excites them, power and control, does not change inside their minds.
> ...


That's stupid. You can only speak for yourself. If sex is about power and control that's you acting out on your shortcomings.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> I'd go to the events but pull him aside and tell him to stay away from you and your wife. Carry some pepper spray in case he forgets.



That's kind do of where I think we're going to end up with this. Not really where I want to be, but probably where we'll end up.


----------



## Toro (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > We treat them fine, they get extensive counseling. The court system tries to rehab this group, how ever sexual deviants very rarely reform because the things that sexually excites them, power and control, does not change inside their minds.
> ...



Sex is about feeling really, really, really good.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > I'd go to the events but pull him aside and tell him to stay away from you and your wife. Carry some pepper spray in case he forgets.
> ...


Just remember to turn away before you spray. FOX is good stuff but Sabre has some good ones, watch some youtube's, puts people down for a while.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Toro said:


> Sex is about feeling really, really, really good.


You don't use a red cape?


----------



## Anathema (Oct 6, 2016)

esthermoon said:


> We all make mistakes.
> Treat him like you would treat another person.



Honestly, I don't have much use for most people. Given the option, I'd go out of my WY to ensure my wife and I never see my uncle. Apparently my mother is not going good to allow that to happen.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 6, 2016)

Tipsycatlover said:


> What you don't say leaves too much room for conjecture.   You make it appear that your wife was raped by this guy and gets triggered when she sees him.  Is that true?



No. My wife's assailant is not my uncle. Two totally different criminals doing very different things to different girls in different parts of the world. She and I just make it a point to try and a out socializing with criminals in general and sexual criminals particularly. We're funny like thst.



Tipsycatlover said:


> From the charges and circumstances, photography business, child endangerment, did he go to prison for kiddie porn?



No. There were no pornography charges levied in his case. He taped girls changing clothes and exposure get himself to underage girls. No physical contact was ever alleged.


----------



## Toro (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Sex is about feeling really, really, really good.
> ...



Only on Superhero night!


----------



## Anathema (Oct 6, 2016)

sealybobo said:


> One day when your mother is gone you'll never see him again. And if he visits her Saturday ID visit on Sunday.



We will never see him in a private setting goals. That's already been decided. It's larger gatherings..... weddings, funerals, family reunions that are the issue.



sealybobo said:


> Also consider he paid his dues. He served his time. He owes you and your wife nothing. If he didn't rape your wife then she's punishing him for something he didn't do



We obviously have different ideas about what Justice is when it comes to this type of crime.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Just remember to turn away before you spray. FOX is good stuff but Sabre has some good ones, watch some youtube's, puts people down for a while.



I'm more of a firearm user than aerosol sprays.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Oct 6, 2016)

Anathema said:


> I got word from my mother this evening that the Black Sheep of our family (my father's youngest brother) will likely be getting out of prison next April.
> 
> If so, he will have served 8 years of a 15 year sentence for multiple Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy charges he plead guilty to in 2009. These were related to a home photography business he ran. He will have to register as a sex offender and will be on lifetime parole.
> 
> ...


Just don't go to any events he attends.  Your wife's wishes trump those of your mother

Easy.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Just remember to turn away before you spray. FOX is good stuff but Sabre has some good ones, watch some youtube's, puts people down for a while.
> ...


Mom will get pissed if you spray his brains on her.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

westwall said:


> The human condition IS ethics.



Uh, no.

They are two entirely different philosophical concepts.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> That's stupid. You can only speak for yourself. If sex is about power and control that's you acting out on your shortcomings.



No, actually it is a simple fact that applies to all sexual attraction.

Rather than acting out on my shortcomings, I am building upon thousands of years of established sexual thought.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > That's stupid. You can only speak for yourself. If sex is about power and control that's you acting out on your shortcomings.
> ...


You're building a steamy pile of shit. Not everyone is a power freak. Human sexuality is an expression of who you really are. It's clear that you think you are King Kong. I imagine many a gal told you to go fuck yourself.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Not everyone is a power freak.



Never said everyone was.

There are three categories. Dominant and submissive, and one more to describe a compromise between the two.



> Human sexuality is an expression of who you really are.



False.

It is an expression of sexual hormones. You can put personality into it all you want, but it wont make a difference. Sex is driven by the subconscious.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Not everyone is a power freak.
> ...


The subconscious doesn't make one wear leather ass chaps and arm themselves with a riding crop. You are talking out of your ass.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> The subconscious doesn't make one wear leather ass chaps and arm themselves with a riding crop. You are talking out of your ass.



 So you believe sexual attraction and fetishes are determined by the conscious level of the brain?

You are going to get an ass whipping trying to promote that junk theory to sex scientists


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > The subconscious doesn't make one wear leather ass chaps and arm themselves with a riding crop. You are talking out of your ass.
> ...


Junk theory? You think the subconscience is responsible for bondage, pedophilia, beastiality, etc? So therefore perverts are merely victims of their hormones?


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Junk theory? You think the subconscience is responsible for bondage, pedophilia, beastiality, etc?



Yes, this is commonly accepted knowledge.

Why do you obsess over ass, titties, and missionary position? My guess is that you cannot rationalize why tits turn you on, hence the subconscious.



> So therefore perverts are merely victims of their hormones?



We are all victims of hormones.

It is why sex generally constitutes as an addiction. If there were no sex hormones there would be no urge to have sex (or ejaculation for that matter).


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Junk theory? You think the subconscience is responsible for bondage, pedophilia, beastiality, etc?
> ...


No, you can't bluff your away around. Sex is an addiction? You don't even have grade school word knowledge. We all have hormones but most of us have brains too. some people use those brains to delve into some perverted shit. It isn't predetermined and you can't begin to support it.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> No, you can't bluff your away around.



On the contrary, I cannot keep espousing established sex psychology with someone uneducated on sex psychology.



> Sex is an addiction?



Not necessarily. It is however addictive.



> You don't even have grade school word knowledge.



Deflection. 



> We all have hormones but most of us have brains too. some people use those brains to delve into some perverted shit.



In our brains is a subconscious. You do not choose to apply "perversion," but rather "perversion" naturally dwells at the edges of your mind



> It isn't predetermined and you can't begin to support it.



Never said it was. I stated that it was subconscious.

Again, rationalize why you fixate on tits (presumably)


----------



## Anathema (Oct 6, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Just don't go to any events he attends.  Your wife's wishes trump those of your mother



True. Unfortunately that means effectively alienating myself from my entire family.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 6, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > GaryDog said:
> ...


Just a thought. Keep in mind a Peeping Tom is a lot different than a rapist. So if this relative of yours was a flasher or a Peeping Tom he's not really a rapist he's just a pervert and your wife needs to be reminded that all guys are a little perverted. If you didn't hurt anyone which I'm not sure if you did or didn't then don't act like he's raping women


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 6, 2016)

Anathema said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > One day when your mother is gone you'll never see him again. And if he visits her Saturday ID visit on Sunday.
> ...


Remind me what exactly did he do?


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

sealybobo said:


> Remind me what exactly did he do?



Took pictures of teenagers.


----------



## Anathema (Oct 6, 2016)

sealybobo said:


> Just a thought. Keep in mind a Peeping Tom is a lot different than a rapist. So if this relative of yours was a flasher or a Peeping Tom he's not really a rapist he's just a pervert and your wife needs to be reminded that all guys are a little perverted. If you didn't hurt anyone which I'm not sure if you did or didn't then don't act like he's raping women



He pled guilty to Child Endangerment and Invasion of Privacy related to secretly taping underage girls getting changed in his home photography studio and exposing himself to some of those girls. No physical contact was ever alleged to have occured.

My wife and I both understand that these activities don't constitute rape. We just don't care. He's a six offender and we don't want anything to do with him if possible.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Oct 6, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Just don't go to any events he attends.  Your wife's wishes trump those of your mother
> ...



They will either respect your choice or they you wouldn't be alienating them they would be turning their backs n you simple because you stood by your wife

It's all on them because you are doing the right thing by standing by your wife


----------



## Coyote (Oct 6, 2016)

Is it possible to attend family events and ask that he stay away from you and your wife?  Would your wife be willing if so?


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > No, you can't bluff your away around.
> ...


You made stupid assertions and then tried to pretend they were based on science. Then you tried to bluff your way out of it. You are either trolling or off the charts stupid. Sex is way more than subconsciously driven. Find one other human being on Earth that agrees with you.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Remind me what exactly did he do?
> ...


LOL. You don't even know what the thread is about.


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> You made stupid assertions and then tried to pretend they were based on science. Then you tried to bluff your way out of it. You are either trolling or off the charts stupid.



Insults signify deflection.

You are tripping.



> Sex is way more than subconsciously driven. Find one other human being on Earth that agrees with you.



About every sexual scientist and sexual philosopher. No joke.

Do not be intentionally moronic. Your dick does not get hard by choice.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Onyx (Oct 6, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> LOL. You don't even know what the thread is about.



You just demonstrated that you do not know what the thread is about. 

He asked what the guy in question did. He took pictures of teenagers. That is a factually correct statement.


----------



## Iceweasel (Oct 6, 2016)

Onyx said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > You made stupid assertions and then tried to pretend they were based on science. Then you tried to bluff your way out of it. You are either trolling or off the charts stupid.
> ...


Wrong moron. Insults that are well deserved are purposeful. You make stupid statements you can't begin to back up then insult people's intelligence by claiming it's science. If it's science, where is it? My dick isn't sex. Different words, different meanings. Some perverts get turned on with animals. That seems natural to you?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Oct 6, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


Dude...check the poster.  They might be LOOKING for an excuse to write off his psychotic ass.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 6, 2016)

Anathema said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Just a thought. Keep in mind a Peeping Tom is a lot different than a rapist. So if this relative of yours was a flasher or a Peeping Tom he's not really a rapist he's just a pervert and your wife needs to be reminded that all guys are a little perverted. If you didn't hurt anyone which I'm not sure if you did or didn't then don't act like he's raping women
> ...


My buddy was just as creepy and he didn't even serve a year. Your boy did 8 years? He served his time.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 7, 2016)

westwall said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



Still not seeing anything that supports 100% recidivism.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 7, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> GaryDog said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



Drug and alcohol addicts continue to have desire for drugs and alcohol.  They're addicts for life.  That's no different than what you described for sex offenders, and it is totally in line with my argument this entire time.  The nature of their addiction isn't relevant to our conversation.

Again, thanks for conceding the point.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 7, 2016)

Anathema said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > What you don't say leaves too much room for conjecture.   You make it appear that your wife was raped by this guy and gets triggered when she sees him.  Is that true?
> ...



And you and Jesus disagree on that.


----------



## GaryDog (Oct 7, 2016)

Anathema said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Just a thought. Keep in mind a Peeping Tom is a lot different than a rapist. So if this relative of yours was a flasher or a Peeping Tom he's not really a rapist he's just a pervert and your wife needs to be reminded that all guys are a little perverted. If you didn't hurt anyone which I'm not sure if you did or didn't then don't act like he's raping women
> ...



So don't.  But also don't be surprised if your family is more forgiving and less callous and hateful than you.  From your posts, it seems most people are.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 7, 2016)

GaryDog said:


> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


Well we also don't have to deal with the guy either.  I might feel different if it was me.  I have this neighbor who's on the sex offenders list.  I don't have any more conversation with the guy than hello.  Maybe I asked him about paddle boards because I saw he had one and I was carrying mine.  So I'll be nice, but I don't want to be his buddy.

Anathema and his wife don't feel comfortable pretending nothing happened.  The guy creeps them out and it doesn't seem like they are capable of hiding it.  So what to do?  Do you cause a scene?  It sounds like eventually his wife will take out what happened to her on the guy eventually.  And Anathema will lash out and the poor guy, who really didn't hurt anyone and for god sakes he spent 8 years in jail.

But we all believe time in jail makes you a better criminal.  It's not about rehabilitation.  AND, we all know once a slime ball always a slime ball.  You may not act on it but you know he's a perv.

If women could read our minds they wouldn't want anything to do with any of us.  If my boss knew I loved her perfectly painted toes, or that I wanted to put her feet in my mouth, do you think she could work with me?  LOL.


----------

