# 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools



## Lakhota

> _By Deanna Pan_
> 
> Slave masters were nice, the KKK is A-OK, and the Great Depression is a liberal fantasy. Thanks, Gov. Jindal!
> 
> Thanks to a new law privatizing public education in Louisiana, Bible-based curriculum can now indoctrinate young, pliant minds with the good news of the Lordall on the state taxpayers' dime.
> 
> Under Gov. Bobby Jindal's voucher program, considered the most sweeping in the country, Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education. While the governor's plan sounds great in the glittery parlance of the state's PR machine, the program is rife with accountability problems that actually haven't been solved by the new standards the Louisiana Department of Education adopted two weeks ago.
> 
> For one, of the 119 (mostly Christian) participating schools, Zack Kopplin, a gutsy college sophomore who's taken to Change.org to stonewall the program, has identified at least 19 that teach or champion creationist nonscience and will rake in nearly $4 million in public funding from the initial round of voucher designations.
> 
> Many of these schools, Kopplin notes, rely on Pensacola-based A Beka Book curriculum or Bob Jones University Press textbooks to teach their pupils Bible-based "facts," such as the existence of Nessie the Loch Ness Monster and all sorts of pseudoscience that researcher Rachel Tabachnick and writer Thomas Vinciguerra have thankfully pored over so the rest of world doesn't have to.
> 
> Here are some of my favorite lessons:
> 
> *1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out:* "Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007



More holy shit stuff to make sane people cringe: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones


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## Moonglow

Wow, Loiusiana can't go much lower on the education rating scale, so what do they have to loose?


----------



## bripat9643

Lakhota said:


> _By Deanna Pan_
> 
> Slave masters were nice, the KKK is A-OK, and the Great Depression is a liberal fantasy. Thanks, Gov. Jindal!
> 
> Thanks to a new law privatizing public education in Louisiana, Bible-based curriculum can now indoctrinate young, pliant minds with the good news of the Lord&#8212;all on the state taxpayers' dime.
> 
> Under Gov. Bobby Jindal's voucher program, considered the most sweeping in the country, Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education. While the governor's plan sounds great in the glittery parlance of the state's PR machine, the program is rife with accountability problems that actually haven't been solved by the new standards the Louisiana Department of Education adopted two weeks ago.
> 
> For one, of the 119 (mostly Christian) participating schools, Zack Kopplin, a gutsy college sophomore who's taken to Change.org to stonewall the program, has identified at least 19 that teach or champion creationist nonscience and will rake in nearly $4 million in public funding from the initial round of voucher designations.
> 
> Many of these schools, Kopplin notes, rely on Pensacola-based A Beka Book curriculum or Bob Jones University Press textbooks to teach their pupils Bible-based "facts," such as the existence of Nessie the Loch Ness Monster and all sorts of pseudoscience that researcher Rachel Tabachnick and writer Thomas Vinciguerra have thankfully pored over so the rest of world doesn't have to.
> 
> Here are some of my favorite lessons:
> 
> *1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out:* "Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."&#8212;Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More holy shit stuff to make sane people cringe: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones
Click to expand...


That stuff isn't half as absurd as the horseshit they learn in government schools like "values clarification."


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## Steelplate

no matter how bad it gets...they defend it...wow.


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## Lakhota

This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.


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## rightwinger

Red State education at it's best

They will make good Republicans


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## AmyNation

I can't imagine trying to get a higher education with that as my basic foundation.


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## Steelplate

I lived in Louisiana for 2 years....This does not surprise me. I remember when I lived there, a guy running for state congress told his potential constituents that "all it takes to make Louisianians happy is a pickup truck with a gun rack"......he won.


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## Dissent

19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.


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## whitehall

Y'all left wing bigots believe everything Huffington blogs and then you criticize Louisiana's education system? Those Cajuns make you look like fools.


----------



## syrenn

lets see...... 

private education......vs..... public education. 


ill take private over public any day of the week.


----------



## bodecea

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _By Deanna Pan_
> 
> Slave masters were nice, the KKK is A-OK, and the Great Depression is a liberal fantasy. Thanks, Gov. Jindal!
> 
> Thanks to a new law privatizing public education in Louisiana, Bible-based curriculum can now indoctrinate young, pliant minds with the good news of the Lordall on the state taxpayers' dime.
> 
> Under Gov. Bobby Jindal's voucher program, considered the most sweeping in the country, Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education. While the governor's plan sounds great in the glittery parlance of the state's PR machine, the program is rife with accountability problems that actually haven't been solved by the new standards the Louisiana Department of Education adopted two weeks ago.
> 
> For one, of the 119 (mostly Christian) participating schools, Zack Kopplin, a gutsy college sophomore who's taken to Change.org to stonewall the program, has identified at least 19 that teach or champion creationist nonscience and will rake in nearly $4 million in public funding from the initial round of voucher designations.
> 
> Many of these schools, Kopplin notes, rely on Pensacola-based A Beka Book curriculum or Bob Jones University Press textbooks to teach their pupils Bible-based "facts," such as the existence of Nessie the Loch Ness Monster and all sorts of pseudoscience that researcher Rachel Tabachnick and writer Thomas Vinciguerra have thankfully pored over so the rest of world doesn't have to.
> 
> Here are some of my favorite lessons:
> 
> *1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out:* "Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More holy shit stuff to make sane people cringe: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That stuff isn't half as absurd as the horseshit they learn in government schools like "values clarification."
Click to expand...


Link the State Framework that is part of.


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## LordBrownTrout

syrenn said:


> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.



Same here!!


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Lakhota said:


> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.



That qualifies him to run for guv and he'd be a shoo-in for pub prez candidate. 

Oh wait, he doesn't have money. 

Never mind.


----------



## bodecea

syrenn said:


> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.



Why?  (serious question)


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## saveliberty

Since its a school of choice, what makes you think it will survive without turning out more successful students.


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## LordBrownTrout

Dissent said:


> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.



They have the freedom to send them to govt indoctrination camps.  Hey, but at least they'll know how to roll a condom over a cucumber during government sex hour.


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## Lakhota




----------



## Luddly Neddite

whitehall said:


> Y'all left wing bigots believe everything Huffington blogs and then you criticize Louisiana's education system? Those Cajuns make you look like fools.



Didn't read the link, didja. 

Its not HuffPo but it IS another intellectual, education oriented, LEFT wing, fact based link.

Prove that its incorrect.


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## saveliberty

Lakhota said:


>



^^^^

Thinks that is historically and spiritually correct.  Is worried about others making mistakes.


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## Luddly Neddite

LordBrownTrout said:


> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have the freedom to send them to govt indoctrination camps.  Hey, but at least *they'll know how to roll a condom* over a cucumber during government sex hour.
Click to expand...


O gawd, we can only hope. 

Is there a fund where I can contribute to the condom fund? cuz these are folks we really don't want to be reproducing, if you get my drift.


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## Mr.Nick

Lakhota said:


> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.



I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.


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## whitehall

Lefties live in a genuine fantasy world of Hollywood pop and crazy left wing socialist conspiracies and they read a Huffington blog and become hysterical about about Louisiana school vouchers. The freaking world is upside down in the liberal mind.


----------



## bodecea

Mr.Nick said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
Click to expand...


Whaaaa?


----------



## Steelplate

Mr.Nick said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
Click to expand...


Nick, I have worked with the Developmentally disabled for just about 25 years. 61 is actually mild. We have people where I work in the single digits, teens, and on up. All are below 70... which is the cutoff IQ.


----------



## Dick Tuck

syrenn said:


> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.



Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.


----------



## Mr.Nick

bodecea said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whaaaa?
Click to expand...


I suppose it depends on the test of which there are several standardized tests...

Every test has a different standard...


----------



## syrenn

bodecea said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  (serious question)
Click to expand...



Behavior of the student body for one. Private schools are just that....private. They don't have to keep anyone who is a problem or has disciplined issues. 

In my opinion the quality of education in general terms in private schools is far superior to public schooling.  

Do i agree with some of the crazy crap that parochial school teach... oh hell no. But i still would prefer my child be in that environment over the zoo battle ground they call public schools.


----------



## syrenn

Dick Tuck said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
Click to expand...



 At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.


----------



## Mr.Nick

Steelplate said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nick, I have worked with the Developmentally disabled for just about 25 years. 61 is actually mild. We have people where I work in the single digits, teens, and on up. All are below 70... which is the cutoff IQ.
Click to expand...


It all depends on the test.... 

There is not one test there are many and individuals will score differently on different tests.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Mr.Nick said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
Click to expand...


Not true but if it were, would that make it okay to kill human beings?

(I'm in favor of the death penalty in certain cases.)


----------



## whitehall

Dick Tuck said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
Click to expand...


It's a shame that left wingers don't even understand what Louisiana is doing or maybe the blind bigotry and hatred sparked by left wing sites like Huffington influences their opinion. States have the legal responsibility to use taxpayer money to educate children. The dirty little secret is that radical lefties are afraid of freedom and information is the left's greatest enemy. Does anyone really believe that Louisiana kids will be mentally impaired by an alternate discussion of creationism? Think about it lefties. Will the entire shrimping industry fail if Louisiana kids get an education that includes the option to believe Christian values? Check your bigotry at the door.


----------



## Dick Tuck

syrenn said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
Click to expand...


So you have personal experience.  Is this what you think we should teach?



> 3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994


----------



## Dick Tuck

whitehall said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a shame that left wingers don't even understand what Louisiana is doing or maybe the blind bigotry and hatred sparked by left wing sites like Huffington influences their opinion. States have the legal responsibility to use taxpayer money to educate children. The dirty little secret is that radical lefties are afraid of freedom and information is the left's greatest enemy. Does anyone really believe that Louisiana kids will be mentally impaired by an alternate discussion of creationism? Think about it lefties. Will the entire shrimping industry fail if Louisiana kids get an education that includes the option to believe Christian values? Check your bigotry at the door.
Click to expand...


It's a Christian value to teach absolute lies and keep kids stupid?


----------



## Moonglow

whitehall said:


> Y'all left wing bigots believe everything Huffington blogs and then you criticize Louisiana's education system? Those Cajuns make you look like fools.



I don't read huffington blogs, please try harder.


----------



## Listening

Is Lakhota, the moron, really trying to make a case that he wants to "save" kids from private schools ?

Seriously ?


----------



## Mr.Nick

luddly.neddite said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not true but if it were, would that make it okay to kill human beings?
> 
> (I'm in favor of the death penalty in certain cases.)
Click to expand...


In adults an individual with an IQ of 61 would probably be pissing all over oneself..

They certainly wouldn't be functional in society...

I don't believe in the death penalty (not for the same reasons of most) and I don't believe in abortion so why would I believe in killing an individual that is mentally disabled.

I believe in the death penalty in some cases where there is absolute evidence of a horrific crime and there is more than enough evidence to prove guilt (like a video)....

Some people should die for their crimes - those who are/were sane and understood what they were doing....

I don't trust our judicial system one bit to draw those conclusions, and I don't want to see innocent individuals be put to death for crimes they didn't commit - so I'm generally against the death penalty....

There are too many individuals being vindicated via DNA these days to have any sort of faith in the judicial system. Not to mention a lot of them turned out to be framed for crimes they didn't commit...


----------



## driveby

Crazy, next thing you know they'll be singing "mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama"......


----------



## Lakhota

Mr.Nick said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
Click to expand...


Texas uses the Steinbeck test to evaluate mental competency...

Texas Bases Execution Decisions on John Steinbeck Novel | Mother Jones


----------



## syrenn

Dick Tuck said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you have personal experience.  Is this what you think we should teach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive? 

I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Here's a Louisiana Charter school (not a religious school) that forces girls to take prenancy tests, and bounces them if they're pregnant.

http://www.delhicharterschool.org/w...sting/Delhi_Charter_school_policy_manual.html



> If an administrator or teacher suspects a student is pregnant, a parent conference will be held. The school reserves the right to require any female student to take a pregnancy test to confirm whether or not the suspected student is in fact pregnant. The school further reserves the right to refer the suspected student to a physician of its choice. If the test indicates that the student is pregnant, the student will not be permitted to attend classes on the campus of Delhi Charter School.
> 
> If a student is determined to be pregnant and wishes to continue to attend Delhi Charter School, the student will be required to pursue a course of home study that will be provided by the schoolAny student who is suspected of being pregnant and who refuses to submit to a pregnancy test shall be treated as a pregnant student and will be offered home study opportunities. If home study opportunities are not acceptable, the student will be counseled to seek other educational opportunities.



Infuckingsane.


----------



## Moonglow

whitehall said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a shame that left wingers don't even understand what Louisiana is doing or maybe the blind bigotry and hatred sparked by left wing sites like Huffington influences their opinion. States have the legal responsibility to use taxpayer money to educate children. The dirty little secret is that radical lefties are afraid of freedom and information is the left's greatest enemy. Does anyone really believe that Louisiana kids will be mentally impaired by an alternate discussion of creationism? Think about it lefties. Will the entire shrimping industry fail if Louisiana kids get an education that includes the option to believe Christian values? Check your bigotry at the door.
Click to expand...


I have hired kids from The Seventh Day adventist school(where they have to earn money to pay for thier private religious education)in Gentry, Arkansas(Home of Little Debbies , where the kids work there for min wage). The kids were basically not able to function in the real world. Less than the abilities of all the 100's of kids I have hired from public schools.
The contractors/builders that were Seventh Day Adventist, the majority were obnoxious and rude to people not like them, but, there is a sub-culture which exists there and I got along with them just fine, they were friendly, not judgemental.


----------



## Listening

Dick Tuck said:


> Here's a Louisiana Charter school (not a religious school) that forces girls to take prenancy tests, and bounces them if they're pregnant.
> 
> http://www.delhicharterschool.org/w...sting/Delhi_Charter_school_policy_manual.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an administrator or teacher suspects a student is pregnant, a parent conference will be held. The school reserves the right to require any female student to take a pregnancy test to confirm whether or not the suspected student is in fact pregnant. The school further reserves the right to refer the suspected student to a physician of its choice. If the test indicates that the student is pregnant, the student will not be permitted to attend classes on the campus of Delhi Charter School.
> 
> If a student is determined to be pregnant and wishes to continue to attend Delhi Charter School, the student will be required to pursue a course of home study that will be provided by the schoolAny student who is suspected of being pregnant and who refuses to submit to a pregnancy test shall be treated as a pregnant student and will be offered home study opportunities. If home study opportunities are not acceptable, the student will be counseled to seek other educational opportunities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infuckingsane.
Click to expand...


Hey dumbass,

That is the way it used to be in public schools.

To bad we don't get back to it.


----------



## Moonglow

Dick Tuck said:


> Here's a Louisiana Charter school (not a religious school) that forces girls to take prenancy tests, and bounces them if they're pregnant.
> 
> http://www.delhicharterschool.org/w...sting/Delhi_Charter_school_policy_manual.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an administrator or teacher suspects a student is pregnant, a parent conference will be held. The school reserves the right to require any female student to take a pregnancy test to confirm whether or not the suspected student is in fact pregnant. The school further reserves the right to refer the suspected student to a physician of its choice. If the test indicates that the student is pregnant, the student will not be permitted to attend classes on the campus of Delhi Charter School.
> 
> If a student is determined to be pregnant and wishes to continue to attend Delhi Charter School, the student will be required to pursue a course of home study that will be provided by the school&#8230;Any student who is suspected of being pregnant and who refuses to submit to a pregnancy test shall be treated as a pregnant student and will be offered home study opportunities. If home study opportunities are not acceptable, the student will be counseled to seek other educational opportunities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infuckingsane.
Click to expand...


They don't bounce them out!They have the opportunity to have a home schooling program. The pregnant student is better off doing it this way.


----------



## Dick Tuck

syrenn said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have personal experience.  Is this what you think we should teach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive?
> 
> I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.
Click to expand...


I attended a Catholic grade school and University.  They never tried to teach the shit that the bible thumper schools are teaching.   People and dinosaurs coexisted???  The Trail of Tears was God's attempt to convert Indians???  The KKK was a respected organization that went after bootleggers???  Slave owners were usually kind????

These are some fucked up people.


----------



## Mr.Nick

Lakhota said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Texas uses the Steinbeck test to evaluate mental competency...
> 
> Texas Bases Execution Decisions on John Steinbeck Novel | Mother Jones
Click to expand...


IMO, I find no flaws in most tests, however different tests conclude different results...

The guy could have an IQ of 41 or an IQ of 81....

Besides, it's not that difficult to score an 81 or 41 on an IQ test - just wait a really long time then answer the "puzzle."

It is certainly not a lie-detector test.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Listening said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a Louisiana Charter school (not a religious school) that forces girls to take prenancy tests, and bounces them if they're pregnant.
> 
> http://www.delhicharterschool.org/w...sting/Delhi_Charter_school_policy_manual.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an administrator or teacher suspects a student is pregnant, a parent conference will be held. The school reserves the right to require any female student to take a pregnancy test to confirm whether or not the suspected student is in fact pregnant. The school further reserves the right to refer the suspected student to a physician of its choice. If the test indicates that the student is pregnant, the student will not be permitted to attend classes on the campus of Delhi Charter School.
> 
> If a student is determined to be pregnant and wishes to continue to attend Delhi Charter School, the student will be required to pursue a course of home study that will be provided by the schoolAny student who is suspected of being pregnant and who refuses to submit to a pregnancy test shall be treated as a pregnant student and will be offered home study opportunities. If home study opportunities are not acceptable, the student will be counseled to seek other educational opportunities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infuckingsane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass,
> 
> That is the way it used to be in public schools.
> 
> To bad we don't get back to it.
Click to expand...


Before Title IX of  the Education Amendments of 1972.  I guess you want to take us back to the Dark Ages.  Damn you're fucking stupid.


----------



## buckeye45_73

Lakhota said:


> This nonsense is why America is going to shit. Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.


 

Did he kill people? Then I dont give a fuck what his IQ is, so dont commit murders in Texas, Lakhota, your low IQ wont save you!


----------



## buckeye45_73

I love it you liberal atheists talk about abusurdity. You guys think the universe was an atom and just blew up..just cuz. your "scietific" theories hold up as well as Greek Mythology. And as for science, I bet I can name more heavy hitting Christian scientists than you can atheist...just sayin


----------



## Dick Tuck

buckeye45_73 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit. Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did he kill people? Then I dont give a fuck what his IQ is, so dont commit murders in Texas, Lakhota, your low IQ wont save you!
Click to expand...


Compared to you, this guy sounds like Einstein.


----------



## Lakhota

buckeye45_73 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit. Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did he kill people? Then I dont give a fuck what his IQ is, so dont commit murders in Texas, Lakhota, your low IQ wont save you!
Click to expand...


Texas determined that he was smarter than Lennie Small in Steinbeck's 1937 novel _Of Mice and Men_.  No shit...


----------



## Moonglow

Dick Tuck said:


> Listening said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a Louisiana Charter school (not a religious school) that forces girls to take prenancy tests, and bounces them if they're pregnant.
> 
> http://www.delhicharterschool.org/w...sting/Delhi_Charter_school_policy_manual.html
> 
> 
> 
> Infuckingsane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass,
> 
> That is the way it used to be in public schools.
> 
> To bad we don't get back to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Before Title IX of  the Education Amendments of 1972.  I guess you want to take us back to the Dark Ages.  Damn you're fucking stupid.
Click to expand...


I was in OKC public schools from 1966-1979. We had to do group prayer in football, but there was no 10 commandments or religious overtones


----------



## Lakhota

Red states are scary...


----------



## syrenn

Dick Tuck said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have personal experience.  Is this what you think we should teach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive?
> 
> I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I attended a Catholic grade school and University.  They never tried to teach the shit that the bible thumper schools are teaching.   People and dinosaurs coexisted???  The Trail of Tears was God's attempt to convert Indians???  The KKK was a respected organization that went after bootleggers???  Slave owners were usually kind????
> 
> These are some fucked up people.
Click to expand...



I am not saying i agree with what they are teaching. I am saying that what they are teaching other then the crazy is what you are sending your kid there for.


----------



## Moonglow

buckeye45_73 said:


> I love it you liberal atheists talk about abusurdity. You guys think the universe was an atom and just blew up..just cuz. your "scietific" theories hold up as well as Greek Mythology. And as for science, I bet I can name more heavy hitting Christian scientists than you can atheist...just sayin



The Universe still creates star stuff , planets and galaxies. The proof is in the pudding so to spreak, about the big bang theory.
I am not and athiest.


----------



## Dick Tuck

buckeye45_73 said:


> I love it you liberal atheists talk about abusurdity. You guys think the universe was an atom and just blew up..just cuz. your "scietific" theories hold up as well as Greek Mythology. And as for science, I bet I can name more heavy hitting Christian scientists than you can atheist...just sayin



I'm not an atheist, asswipe.  And I gather you choose to believe the disproven things that the Louisiana schools are teaching, because sometimes science doesn't have every answer.  And I don't tend to care about a scientists religious values, dipshit.  I care if they do good science.  

So you're a young Earther?  In spite of volumes of evidence that shows you wrong.  You certainly seem to enjoy celebrating your ignorance.


----------



## Mr.Nick

buckeye45_73 said:


> I love it you liberal atheists talk about abusurdity. You guys think the universe was an atom and just blew up..just cuz. your "scietific" theories hold up as well as Greek Mythology. And as for science, I bet I can name more heavy hitting Christian scientists than you can atheist...just sayin



The best part is they believe in String Theory/M-Theory and they deny there is a God?

Yeah they will refuse to believe in God but will believe in vibrating strings and potential connections to other universes.

Quantum physics thus far has proven God more real than most scientists expected - many just wont admit it.


----------



## Avatar4321

saveliberty said:


> Since its a school of choice, what makes you think it will survive without turning out more successful students.



They aren't worried about that. Nevermind you can choose to send your children to another school, they dont have control over things anymore. That's the problem.


----------



## Lakhota

Mr.Nick said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love it you liberal atheists talk about abusurdity. You guys think the universe was an atom and just blew up..just cuz. your "scietific" theories hold up as well as Greek Mythology. And as for science, I bet I can name more heavy hitting Christian scientists than you can atheist...just sayin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best part is they believe in String Theory/M-Theory and they deny there is a God?
> 
> Yeah they will refuse to believe in God but will believe in vibrating strings and potential connections to other universes.
> 
> Quantum physics thus far has proven God more real than most scientists expected - many just wont admit it.
Click to expand...


Yeah, scientists are so stupid...


----------



## buckeye45_73

Dick Tuck said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love it you liberal atheists talk about abusurdity. You guys think the universe was an atom and just blew up..just cuz. your "scietific" theories hold up as well as Greek Mythology. And as for science, I bet I can name more heavy hitting Christian scientists than you can atheist...just sayin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not an atheist, asswipe. And I gather you choose to believe the disproven things that the Louisiana schools are teaching, because sometimes science doesn't have every answer. And I don't tend to care about a scientists religious values, dipshit. I care if they do good science.
> 
> So you're a young Earther? In spite of volumes of evidence that shows you wrong. You certainly seem to enjoy celebrating your ignorance.
Click to expand...

 
Dude you dont know what I believe ass hat.....so if you're not an atheist what are you?

I didnt read the crap of Lousiana, blah blah blah, the same crap liberals troll up to take down vouchers....If liberals had a real curriculum people would learn....History, civics and such are woefully inadequate and very politicized in schools.....and kids get bad information.


I'm a huge fan of real science. PROVABLE science, like hard science. I scoff at psycology and fake science, especially the ones with studies that try to "fix" problems...like this one
Chlorine in the bathwater is linked to cancer | Mail Online

As for the age of the Earth, no I dont believe it's 6000 years old, but I also dont believe in evolution.....escpecially from one species to another


----------



## ladyliberal

whitehall said:


> It's a shame that left wingers don't even understand what Louisiana is doing or maybe the blind bigotry and hatred sparked by left wing sites like Huffington influences their opinion. States have the legal responsibility to use taxpayer money to educate children. The dirty little secret is that radical lefties are afraid of freedom and information is the left's greatest enemy. Does anyone really believe that Louisiana kids will be mentally impaired by an alternate discussion of creationism? Think about it lefties. Will the entire shrimping industry fail if Louisiana kids get an education that includes the option to believe Christian values? Check your bigotry at the door.



Yes, I believe that the curriculum described in the link will mentally impair students. There are good curricula and bad curricula, just as there are good teachers and bad teachers. A student learns more (true things) from a good curriculum than a bad one. A life science curriculum that teaches "Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time" or a history curriculum that says that "The majority of [American] slave holders treated their slaves well" is a bad curriculum.

"Freedom" doesn't mean that teachers should teach kids whatever they want. The duty to instill critical thinking skills is in no way license to praise Nazism or to teach that 2+2 can be five. And I don't accept that "will this cause the entire shrimping industry to fail?" should be the sole criterion by which Louisiana's system is judged.

And for the record, I do not believe for a minute that most Christians actually believe anything like many of the assertions contained in the link.


----------



## Avatar4321

Dick Tuck said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame that left wingers don't even understand what Louisiana is doing or maybe the blind bigotry and hatred sparked by left wing sites like Huffington influences their opinion. States have the legal responsibility to use taxpayer money to educate children. The dirty little secret is that radical lefties are afraid of freedom and information is the left's greatest enemy. Does anyone really believe that Louisiana kids will be mentally impaired by an alternate discussion of creationism? Think about it lefties. Will the entire shrimping industry fail if Louisiana kids get an education that includes the option to believe Christian values? Check your bigotry at the door.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a Christian value to teach absolute lies and keep kids stupid?
Click to expand...


Of course not. If it was we would be encouraging kids to stay in Public school.


----------



## Lakhota

If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.

Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament


----------



## Avatar4321

Dick Tuck said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have personal experience.  Is this what you think we should teach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive?
> 
> I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I attended a Catholic grade school and University.  They never tried to teach the shit that the bible thumper schools are teaching.   People and dinosaurs coexisted???  The Trail of Tears was God's attempt to convert Indians???  The KKK was a respected organization that went after bootleggers???  Slave owners were usually kind????
> 
> These are some fucked up people.
Click to expand...


And what evidence, other than the word of an unknown author with a clear political agenda, do we have that anyone is actually teaching these things?


----------



## Avatar4321

Lakhota said:


> Red states are scary...



I know. The audacity of having to make your own choices and hold yourself accountable for your actions and education. Such crazy ideas. Much easier to give all responsibility to someone else.


----------



## Lakhota

Avatar4321 said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive?
> 
> I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I attended a Catholic grade school and University.  They never tried to teach the shit that the bible thumper schools are teaching.   People and dinosaurs coexisted???  The Trail of Tears was God's attempt to convert Indians???  The KKK was a respected organization that went after bootleggers???  Slave owners were usually kind????
> 
> These are some fucked up people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what evidence, other than the word of an unknown author with a clear political agenda, do we have that anyone is actually teaching these things?
Click to expand...


The OP link is full of live links to support it.


----------



## Avatar4321

Lakhota said:


> Yeah, scientists are so stupid...



Pride makes alot of smart people do and say stupid things. Look at the President.


----------



## Avatar4321

Lakhota said:


> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament



Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.


----------



## Lakhota

Avatar4321 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, scientists are so stupid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pride makes alot of smart people do and say stupid things. Look at the President.
Click to expand...


Which one?


----------



## Lakhota

Avatar4321 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
Click to expand...


HE didn't do shit for me.  What is your prayer success rate?  Charles Manson isn't as creepy as the God portrayed in the Old Testament.


----------



## Avatar4321

Lakhota said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, scientists are so stupid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pride makes alot of smart people do and say stupid things. Look at the President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which one?
Click to expand...


Pick one. I am sure youll find a smart man who does or says something stupid.


----------



## Avatar4321

Lakhota said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HE didn't do shit for me.  What is your prayer success rate?  Charles Manson isn't as creepy as the God portrayed in the Old Testament.
Click to expand...


He provides you with the air you breath, the water you drink, the food you eat. He gave you your mind, your heart, your eyes, your ears. He gave you your skills, He gave you the unique attributes that make you you. He gave you your family. Your friends. 

He has given you so much you don't even see. And He will continue to do so forever.


----------



## Charles_Main

bodecea said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  (serious question)
Click to expand...


Because Private Schools have to Compete for Students. If they keep pumping out kids who can not pass tests, nobody will send their fucking kids there. While Public Schools just keep sucking, and nobody has a choice. 

Why do you think people pay so much to send kids to some of these private schools? Because they are Better at Teaching kids. Period.


----------



## Charles_Main

Lakhota said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HE didn't do shit for me.  What is your prayer success rate?  Charles Manson isn't as creepy as the God portrayed in the Old Testament.
Click to expand...


Damn something we agree on. The Old Testament god was a fucking asshole for sure lol


----------



## Mr.Nick

Lakhota said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love it you liberal atheists talk about abusurdity. You guys think the universe was an atom and just blew up..just cuz. your "scietific" theories hold up as well as Greek Mythology. And as for science, I bet I can name more heavy hitting Christian scientists than you can atheist...just sayin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best part is they believe in String Theory/M-Theory and they deny there is a God?
> 
> Yeah they will refuse to believe in God but will believe in vibrating strings and potential connections to other universes.
> 
> Quantum physics thus far has proven God more real than most scientists expected - many just wont admit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, scientists are so stupid...
Click to expand...


I wouldn't say they're stupid but someone has to be wrong....

There is only one truth and multiple theories in many scientific fields - who holds the right theory (or truth) and who are the idiots?

Some scientist has to be wrong and some will have to be right.... 

I suppose my point is scientists of any breed will most certainly be wrong more often than not...

Presently science is not an open minded field - many clinch their theories like an old man clinches his cane with white knuckles....

It's almost a spectator sport instead of a voyage to find the truth...... 

Every scientist today wants to be the next Einstein - they're right and everyone else is wrong........

Yeah they are idiots given their childish behavior.....

Not to mention many go out of their way to prove a theory instead of utilizing the scientific method....


----------



## bodecea

Avatar4321 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
Click to expand...


God died?


----------



## ladyliberal

Avatar4321 said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive?
> 
> I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I attended a Catholic grade school and University.  They never tried to teach the shit that the bible thumper schools are teaching.   People and dinosaurs coexisted???  The Trail of Tears was God's attempt to convert Indians???  The KKK was a respected organization that went after bootleggers???  Slave owners were usually kind????
> 
> These are some fucked up people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what evidence, other than the word of an unknown author with a clear political agenda, do we have that anyone is actually teaching these things?
Click to expand...


Well, firstly the publication (Mother Jones) is fairly well-known and has clear editorial policies.

Secondly, the author of the piece is supplying direct quotes from published works. Anyone who has a copy of the textbook (which I certainly don't) in question can test the accuracy of the quote. The introduction to the Life Science textbook is free online (Life Science Student Text (3rd ed.) | BJU Press) and it does make it quite clear that the authors are relying on their interpretation of the Bible to provide scientific facts, though dinosaurs are not specifically addressed. The table of contents does make it clear that dinosaurs are discussed right after Noah's Ark.


----------



## Avatar4321

bodecea said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God died?
Click to expand...


Will someone please give her a New Testament?

and Bodecea, i promise you wont burst into flames or anything if you read it.


----------



## thereisnospoon

syrenn said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
Click to expand...

Public education has been boiled down to one thing. Testing. Event the best public school districts have removed critical thinking from the process. Now it's all about "teaching the test"..
Public schools no longer turn out thinkers. Public schools release kids who have no idea how to think for themselves. They have been told they must go to college or they are worthless. If those kids do not have the grades or did not test well, they are screwed. The Public schools have been failing children ever since some left wing educrat invented "outcome based education".


----------



## Mr.Nick

thereisnospoon said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Public education has been boiled down to one thing. Testing. Event the best public school districts have removed critical thinking from the process. Now it's all about "teaching the test"..
> Public schools no longer turn out thinkers. Public schools release kids who have no idea how to think for themselves. They have been told they must go to college or they are worthless. If those kids do not have the grades or did not test well, they are screwed. The Public schools have been failing children ever since some left wing educrat invented "outcome based education".
Click to expand...


I call it brainwashing but the more scientific term is called "whole language" - it's a pretty slippery slope...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_language


----------



## Lakhota

Avatar4321 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HE didn't do shit for me.  What is your prayer success rate?  Charles Manson isn't as creepy as the God portrayed in the Old Testament.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He provides you with the air you breath, the water you drink, the food you eat. He gave you your mind, your heart, your eyes, your ears. He gave you your skills, He gave you the unique attributes that make you you. He gave you your family. Your friends.
> 
> He has given you so much you don't even see. And He will continue to do so forever.
Click to expand...


I'm happy that you believe that, because it obviously gives you comfort.  Seriously, I am.


----------



## Harry Dresden

luddly.neddite said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have the freedom to send them to govt indoctrination camps.  Hey, but at least *they'll know how to roll a condom* over a cucumber during government sex hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> O gawd, we can only hope.
> 
> Is there a fund where I can contribute to the condom fund? cuz these are folks we really don't want to be reproducing, if you get my drift.
Click to expand...


they were to late for you though.....if you get my drift.....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Dick Tuck said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
Click to expand...


come to California Dick if you want to see Left Wingers who are complete unthinking idiots.....got a whole bunch for you to observe......lots of them are in Sacramento....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Lakhota said:


> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament



God will get you for that.....


----------



## Sinjorri

Dick Tuck said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have personal experience.  Is this what you think we should teach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive?
> 
> I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I attended a Catholic grade school and University.  They never tried to teach the shit that the bible thumper schools are teaching.   People and dinosaurs coexisted???  The Trail of Tears was God's attempt to convert Indians???  The KKK was a respected organization that went after bootleggers???  Slave owners were usually kind????
> 
> These are some fucked up people.
Click to expand...




and people wonder why others leave the left.    they just take bits of selected history and run with it and once again  if you dont agree with them,  guess whos wrong?  its never the left.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Avatar4321 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
Click to expand...


God did or Jesus?.....


----------



## NYcarbineer

Dinosaurs and humans have co-existed for years.  However we normally refer to the former as conservatives.


----------



## Avatar4321

NYcarbineer said:


> Dinosaurs and humans have co-existed for years.  However we normally refer to the former as conservatives.



Dinosaurs believe in the Constitution of the United States? Who knew?


----------



## buckeye45_73

Dick Tuck said:


> buckeye45_73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> This nonsense is why America is going to shit. Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61, and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did he kill people? Then I dont give a fuck what his IQ is, so dont commit murders in Texas, Lakhota, your low IQ wont save you!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Compared to you, this guy sounds like Einstein.
Click to expand...

 
Well I think the average IQ of an Obamabot is say 50. The average human is 100, and I'm a little above that....so thanks man
Oh and Dick, I still want to know, do you advocate small government since you created a thread on it. WHY do you duck the question?


----------



## buckeye45_73

Harry Dresden said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite. Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid. It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> come to California Dick if you want to see Left Wingers who are complete unthinking idiots.....got a whole bunch for you to observe......lots of them are in Sacramento....
Click to expand...

 
It's projection...that's why the Lousisna public schools suck in the first place, they teach liberalism and not reality.


----------



## buckeye45_73

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzfJb3NKE8Y&feature=related]Sen James Meeks (D) Supporting School Vouchers for Chicago Public Schools - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## buckeye45_73

You know why liberals hate vouchers. They dont want black kids comming in their precious schools with the rich white folks. Why do they try so hard to deny minorities and the economically disavantaged to be able to attend a decent school?


----------



## buckeye45_73

bodecea said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is a God, he sure is an evil bastard according to the Old Testament.
> 
> Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, He still sacrificed his life for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God died?
Click to expand...

 
That would be Jesus, so he was talking New Testament, but nice snarky reply.
Old Testamen is some goood shit....It gets real up in that land of Caanan, Joshua puts some might beatdowns on the "natives"


----------



## bripat9643

ladyliberal said:


> "Freedom" doesn't mean that teachers should teach kids whatever they want.



No, but it does mean that teachers will teach what parents want their kids taught and not what a bunch of bureaucrats and government employees want to teach them.



ladyliberal said:


> The duty to instill critical thinking skills is in no way license to praise Nazism or to teach that 2+2 can be five.



What "duty to teach critical thinking skills?"  Teachers have a duty to teach what parents want them to teach, and not a iota more.


----------



## Lakhota

Sooo, Jesus was God's son but also God himself.  Okay, then why was he such a mild-mannered hippie community organizer on the ground and such a prick in the sky?  That's some serious Jekyll and Hyde shit.


----------



## MeBelle

Lakhota said:


> Sooo, Jesus was God's son but also God himself.  Okay, then why was he such a mild-mannered hippie community organizer on the ground and such a prick in the sky?  That's some serious Jekyll and Hyde shit.



He wasn't a community organizer. He only had one mission.

It appears as though you are trying to talk about the Trinity, but have left out one part.


----------



## Steelplate

Mr.Nick said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against the death penalty but an IQ of 61 is almost impossible for a human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whaaaa?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suppose it depends on the test of which there are several standardized tests...
> 
> Every test has a different standard...
Click to expand...


Yep...that's why most States don't rely on IQ tests alone. They use observational tests too. They look at conceptual skills, functional skills, etc.

Conceptual skills would include thing like the concept of money and what it's used for.

Functional skills would include basic ADL(activities of daily living) skills. Like dressing bone's self, putting your shoes on the right feet, and correcting it if the person gets it wrong(knowing that it feels wrong).

There's more to it than just an IQ test. I'm not a Psychologist, so I don't know everything that goes into it, but as an aide, I have assisted in many of them.


----------



## Steelplate

Listening said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a Louisiana Charter school (not a religious school) that forces girls to take prenancy tests, and bounces them if they're pregnant.
> 
> http://www.delhicharterschool.org/w...sting/Delhi_Charter_school_policy_manual.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If an administrator or teacher suspects a student is pregnant, a parent conference will be held. The school reserves the right to require any female student to take a pregnancy test to confirm whether or not the suspected student is in fact pregnant. The school further reserves the right to refer the suspected student to a physician of its choice. If the test indicates that the student is pregnant, the student will not be permitted to attend classes on the campus of Delhi Charter School.
> 
> If a student is determined to be pregnant and wishes to continue to attend Delhi Charter School, the student will be required to pursue a course of home study that will be provided by the schoolAny student who is suspected of being pregnant and who refuses to submit to a pregnancy test shall be treated as a pregnant student and will be offered home study opportunities. If home study opportunities are not acceptable, the student will be counseled to seek other educational opportunities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infuckingsane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass,
> 
> That is the way it used to be in public schools.
> 
> To bad we don't get back to it.
Click to expand...


yeah....because that's what we need more girls with a mouth to feed with no education....and you call him a dumbass?


----------



## Steelplate

thereisnospoon said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Public education has been boiled down to one thing. Testing. Event the best public school districts have removed critical thinking from the process. Now it's all about "teaching the test"..
> Public schools no longer turn out thinkers. Public schools release kids who have no idea how to think for themselves. They have been told they must go to college or they are worthless. If those kids do not have the grades or did not test well, they are screwed. The Public schools have been failing children ever since some left wing educrat invented "outcome based education".
Click to expand...


I agree, and NCLB was a huge factor in that.


----------



## NYcarbineer

buckeye45_73 said:


> You know why liberals hate vouchers. They dont want black kids comming in their precious schools with the rich white folks. Why do they try so hard to deny minorities and the economically disavantaged to be able to attend a decent school?



All of the sudden conservatives support a new big government taxpayer funded social spending program for the poor, while at the same time they want to cut Medicaid, food stamps, school lunches, college tuition assistance, etc., etc., etc.?

Why do you suppose that is?


----------



## NYcarbineer

Charles_Main said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  (serious question)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Private Schools have to Compete for Students. If they keep pumping out kids who can not pass tests, nobody will send their fucking kids there. While Public Schools just keep sucking, and nobody has a choice.
> 
> Why do you think people pay so much to send kids to some of these private schools? Because they are Better at Teaching kids. Period.
Click to expand...


Private schools can turn away anyone they choose to.  Public schools are mandated to try to educate any child out there.


----------



## Jackson

syrenn said:


> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.



My son went to private schools all hs life and his class was consistently in the 98th percentile of the nation in reading and math.  They have standards there that are hard to beat!


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Liberals had a good run fucking over our educational system and practicing their unique brand of intellectual paedophilia on our kids but their time is up. Time to close the department of education, disband the UFT and turn education back to communities parents businesses and whoever else thinks they have something of value


----------



## rightwinger

CrusaderFrank said:


> Liberals had a good run fucking over our educational system and practicing their unique brand of intellectual paedophilia on our kids but their time is up. Time to close the department of education, disband the UFT and turn education back to communities parents businesses and whoever else thinks they have something of value



How many liberals are in Louisiana?


----------



## thereisnospoon

Mr.Nick said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Public education has been boiled down to one thing. Testing. Event the best public school districts have removed critical thinking from the process. Now it's all about "teaching the test"..
> Public schools no longer turn out thinkers. Public schools release kids who have no idea how to think for themselves. They have been told they must go to college or they are worthless. If those kids do not have the grades or did not test well, they are screwed. The Public schools have been failing children ever since some left wing educrat invented "outcome based education".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call it brainwashing but the more scientific term is called "whole language" - it's a pretty slippery slope...
> 
> Whole language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


When the school administrations across the country changed "English" to "Language studies", I knew we were in big trouble.
There is just a small part of the study of English devoted to grammar, sentence construction, spelling, vocabulary and creative writing.
History is called "social studies"...There is little training in geography. Most HS grads cannot point out on a map the state in which they live. Many cannot name all 50 states.
Few can name the three branches of the federal government. Now are they taught the number of associate justices on the Supreme Court. Hell, most kids cannot read a road map.
Earth Sciences? Forget it. Kids are not taught the process by which rain or even clouds form. Now are they taught the layers which make up the atmosphere or the Earth.
Math?..Beyond the four basic functions, only the achievers can perform advanced math which is critical in engineering and the sciences.
Outcome based education( you did not answer correctly but tried real hard) and standardized testing have ruined public education. 
The most galling aspect is the educrats keep pleading for more money.


----------



## Political Junky

Dick Tuck said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shame that left wingers don't even understand what Louisiana is doing or maybe the blind bigotry and hatred sparked by left wing sites like Huffington influences their opinion. States have the legal responsibility to use taxpayer money to educate children. The dirty little secret is that radical lefties are afraid of freedom and information is the left's greatest enemy. Does anyone really believe that Louisiana kids will be mentally impaired by an alternate discussion of creationism? Think about it lefties. Will the entire shrimping industry fail if Louisiana kids get an education that includes the option to believe Christian values? Check your bigotry at the door.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a Christian value to teach absolute lies and keep kids stupid?
Click to expand...

Apparently so.


----------



## Katzndogz

Since the article is from Mother Jones, it is hardly credible.  It's likely the same as the rest of democrat propaganda.


----------



## Political Junky

syrenn said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are teaching stupid....as opposed of not being taught anything at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have personal experience.  Is this what you think we should teach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the best HS here in the city is a catholic school.... which jews attend in droves. Are they going for the religious crap...or the education they receive?
> 
> I dont think any religion should be taught in school. But as i have said before.... i would take a parochial school over a public school any day.
Click to expand...

I'll bet they don't teach about the Loch Ness monster, or that people co-existed with dinosaurs, or that the KKK was good.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Steelplate said:


> Listening said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a Louisiana Charter school (not a religious school) that forces girls to take prenancy tests, and bounces them if they're pregnant.
> 
> http://www.delhicharterschool.org/w...sting/Delhi_Charter_school_policy_manual.html
> 
> 
> 
> Infuckingsane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass,
> 
> That is the way it used to be in public schools.
> 
> To bad we don't get back to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah....because that's what we need more girls with a mouth to feed with no education....and you call him a dumbass?
Click to expand...


The OP did not state nor imply that a pregnant girl be denied educational opportunities. She just cannot study in class at the Charter School. She can be home schooled or placed in a public school where such behavior is tolerated.
The problem here is the breakdown of morality. 
When I was in school, pregnant girls were held in shame. In other words, the community viewed teen pregnancy as "wrong". Now, a pregnant teen is showered with sympathy. "Oh, sweetie it's not your fault".....Really? Who was there when the egg and sperm met? Someone else?...The sad fact is we are not held accountable for our actions. Someone else can always be blamed.
The Charter School policy is correct. 
No need for you to reply. You are not changing my mind. I have my core beliefs. Move along.


----------



## thereisnospoon

NYcarbineer said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  (serious question)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because Private Schools have to Compete for Students. If they keep pumping out kids who can not pass tests, nobody will send their fucking kids there. While Public Schools just keep sucking, and nobody has a choice.
> 
> Why do you think people pay so much to send kids to some of these private schools? Because they are Better at Teaching kids. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Private schools can turn away anyone they choose to.  Public schools are mandated to try to educate any child out there.
Click to expand...


And your point is?


----------



## Katzndogz

What is taught in liberal public schools?

That homosexuality is normal.  Half the United States was stolen from mexico.  Democrats freed the slaves.   One Honor Student from a local high school learned that Hitler was a bad man who hated black people.  America is now and always was an imperial power.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Jackson said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My son went to private schools all hs life and his class was consistently in the 98th percentile of the nation in reading and math.  They have standards there that are hard to beat!
Click to expand...


Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children. 
The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.


----------



## rightwinger

thereisnospoon said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My son went to private schools all hs life and his class was consistently in the 98th percentile of the nation in reading and math.  They have standards there that are hard to beat!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children.
> The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.
Click to expand...


Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states

You get what you pay for.


----------



## Mr.Nick

rightwinger said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son went to private schools all hs life and his class was consistently in the 98th percentile of the nation in reading and math.  They have standards there that are hard to beat!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children.
> The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...


What a crock of shit..........

Why don't you come to Chicago and see these fucking little retards they're churning out. 

Hell, half the teachers are fucking retarded themselves..

8th grade has become the new 12th grade...... Oh and that is why progressives are against standardized tests - they know the kids they're allegedly educating are a bunch of idiots.... They know their intent isn't to educate but rather brainwash students with progressive bullshit... That's why progressives want them at school 24-7-365 so they can keep them away from their families and brainwash them as much as possible...

Yeah that is education in Chicago - focus less on teaching a 15-year-old 7th grader how to spell cat and focus on teaching how great democrats are and how everything Obama says is right and anyone who says otherwise is a racist.

Of course these POS teachers get away with it a) because they're unionized and b) the union agrees with their position of brainwashing kids with progressive bullshit.

There are plenty of good schools with good teachers - they just happen to be in the suburbs. 

I bet I could put a suburban 7th grader up against an inner city 12th grader and the 7th grader would destroy the 12th grader in any subject...

As a matter of fact it is so bad here in Chicago they have to take the smart kids out of most public schools and put them in charter schools so they don't fall through the cracks and turn out like the retards 90% of the CPS teachers shit.


----------



## Katzndogz

Mr.Nick said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children.
> The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock of shit..........
> 
> Why don't you come to Chicago and see these fucking little retards they're churning out.
> 
> Hell, half the teachers are fucking retarded themselves..
> 
> 8th grade has become the new 12th grade...... Oh and that is why progressives are against standardized tests - they know the kids they're allegedly educating are a bunch of idiots.... They know their intent isn't to educate but rather brainwash students with progressive bullshit... That's why progressives want them at school 24-7-365 so they can keep them away from their families and brainwash them as much as possible...
> 
> Yeah that is education in Chicago - focus less on teaching a 15-year-old 7th grader how to spell cat and focus on teaching how great democrats are and how everything Obama says is right and anyone who says otherwise is a racist.
> 
> Of course these POS teachers get away with it a) because they're unionized and b) the union agrees with their position of brainwashing kids with progressive bullshit.
> 
> There are plenty of good schools with good teachers - they just happen to be in the suburbs.
> 
> I bet I could put a suburban 7th grader up against an inner city 12th grader and the 7th grader would destroy the 12th grader in any subject...
> 
> As a matter of fact it is so bad here in Chicago they have to take the smart kids out of most public schools and put them in charter schools so they don't fall through the cracks and turn out like the retards 90% of the CPS teachers shit.
Click to expand...


You could have described California as well.


----------



## thereisnospoon

rightwinger said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son went to private schools all hs life and his class was consistently in the 98th percentile of the nation in reading and math.  They have standards there that are hard to beat!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children.
> The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...



So can I extrapolate from that comment that you believe the only good teacher is a union teacher?
That students in the 24 right to work states ALL get substandard educations?
And here are a few facts for you.....in many of those union states the kids graduating from those fine and well funded schools cannot afford to live in their home towns because property taxes are the highest in the nation. That the massive increases in wages for public workers in places where unions and civil service protect public workers have made salaries under $75k per year obsolete. That's right..Try making a $2500 per month mortgage payment and $10k per year in property taxes in a middle class Bergen County NJ town on $75k and then get back to me. Meanwhile no appreciable commensurate increase in test scores or graduation rates are in evidence. 
That suburban schools have performed the best and urban schools ( which have those same unionized teachers and VERY high taxes) continue to perform poorly even though these districts have much higher per pupil spending ratios than their suburban counterparts.
That is your beat down for the day. 
When you make blanket statements with nothing in terms of support statements, I will rip them to shreds. 
Here..take a look at what the typical full time public worker in NJ earns. Mind you this does NOT include pension and medical benefit value
New Jersey by the Numbers - NJ.com
Then use this site to randomly find property tax rates and amounts on NJ properties.....
Note: Roughly 80% of tax monies go to funding schools. Most of that goes to funding teacher and administrator wages  pensions and benefits.
NJ Assessment Records Search
Here is just one example..Here is a typical home in north central NJ. Twon of Newfoundland which is about 40 miles NW of mid town Manhattan. The tax value of this home is $255k....His annual property tax is nearly $9,300 per year. For comparison's sake, a home of that value in my town here in NC would pay about $1400 per year. We have no unions for public employees. We have limited government. The Mayor and council members are not paid a salary. Most services are contracted out to private firms. So what. We get adequate services and the town employees are accountable to the residents. As opposed to NJ where if a city employee gets shitty with a taxpayer, the union will protect that worker. Down here if that happened the worker would be out the door no questions asked. Accountability.


----------



## rightwinger

Mr.Nick said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children.
> The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock of shit..........
> 
> Why don't you come to Chicago and see these fucking little retards they're churning out.
> 
> Hell, half the teachers are fucking retarded themselves..
> 
> 8th grade has become the new 12th grade...... Oh and that is why progressives are against standardized tests - they know the kids they're allegedly educating are a bunch of idiots.... They know their intent isn't to educate but rather brainwash students with progressive bullshit... That's why progressives want them at school 24-7-365 so they can keep them away from their families and brainwash them as much as possible...
> 
> Yeah that is education in Chicago - focus less on teaching a 15-year-old 7th grader how to spell cat and focus on teaching how great democrats are and how everything Obama says is right and anyone who says otherwise is a racist.
> 
> Of course these POS teachers get away with it a) because they're unionized and b) the union agrees with their position of brainwashing kids with progressive bullshit.
> 
> There are plenty of good schools with good teachers - they just happen to be in the suburbs.
> 
> I bet I could put a suburban 7th grader up against an inner city 12th grader and the 7th grader would destroy the 12th grader in any subject...
> 
> As a matter of fact it is so bad here in Chicago they have to take the smart kids out of most public schools and put them in charter schools so they don't fall through the cracks and turn out like the retards 90% of the CPS teachers shit.
Click to expand...


Look up the term demographics


----------



## Ernie S.

rightwinger said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals had a good run fucking over our educational system and practicing their unique brand of intellectual paedophilia on our kids but their time is up. Time to close the department of education, disband the UFT and turn education back to communities parents businesses and whoever else thinks they have something of value
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many liberals are in Louisiana?
Click to expand...


Been to New Orleans lately?


----------



## thereisnospoon

rightwinger said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a crock of shit..........
> 
> Why don't you come to Chicago and see these fucking little retards they're churning out.
> 
> Hell, half the teachers are fucking retarded themselves..
> 
> 8th grade has become the new 12th grade...... Oh and that is why progressives are against standardized tests - they know the kids they're allegedly educating are a bunch of idiots.... They know their intent isn't to educate but rather brainwash students with progressive bullshit... That's why progressives want them at school 24-7-365 so they can keep them away from their families and brainwash them as much as possible...
> 
> Yeah that is education in Chicago - focus less on teaching a 15-year-old 7th grader how to spell cat and focus on teaching how great democrats are and how everything Obama says is right and anyone who says otherwise is a racist.
> 
> Of course these POS teachers get away with it a) because they're unionized and b) the union agrees with their position of brainwashing kids with progressive bullshit.
> 
> There are plenty of good schools with good teachers - they just happen to be in the suburbs.
> 
> I bet I could put a suburban 7th grader up against an inner city 12th grader and the 7th grader would destroy the 12th grader in any subject...
> 
> As a matter of fact it is so bad here in Chicago they have to take the smart kids out of most public schools and put them in charter schools so they don't fall through the cracks and turn out like the retards 90% of the CPS teachers shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look up the term demographics
Click to expand...


Please tell us you do not imply that minority students are academically inferior.
And please don't play the money for education card. Washington Dc has the highest per pupil spending ratio of any school district in the US and yet the graduation rate and test scores are comparatively poor.
In fact, most large centralized school districts have poorer student performance than smaller lower cost districts. 
The best example of throwing money at a problem to make it go away being an abject failure is public education.


----------



## uscitizen

It is comforting to know that Louisiana will be graduating all the lawn care labor we will need for  the next generation.


----------



## Steelplate

thereisnospoon said:


> Steelplate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listening said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dumbass,
> 
> That is the way it used to be in public schools.
> 
> To bad we don't get back to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah....because that's what we need more girls with a mouth to feed with no education....and you call him a dumbass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The OP did not state nor imply that a pregnant girl be denied educational opportunities. She just cannot study in class at the Charter School. She can be home schooled or placed in a public school where such behavior is tolerated.
> The problem here is the breakdown of morality.
> When I was in school, pregnant girls were held in shame. In other words, the community viewed teen pregnancy as "wrong". Now, a pregnant teen is showered with sympathy. "Oh, sweetie it's not your fault".....Really? Who was there when the egg and sperm met? Someone else?...The sad fact is we are not held accountable for our actions. Someone else can always be blamed.
> The Charter School policy is correct.
> No need for you to reply. You are not changing my mind. I have my core beliefs. Move along.
Click to expand...


well....aren't you the snarky asshole? take your core beliefs and stick them up your ass. God would not approve of your judgmentalism. God loves us and decides our fate....not people. Our job is to work together, accept each others' faults and help those in need. Judgmentalism and acting superior is not the work of God. People fall short of God all the time....people have sexual urges, they succumb to all sorts of temptations....Lust, greed, avarice, gluttony, drunkenness....all of those things are sins and go against God.

Just in writing this I find myself at odds with MY core beliefs... Just remember "let those without sin cast the first stone. I am certainly not without sin and am in no position to cast judgment upon anyone. 

So, no..... I have no intention of "changing your mind".  Do what you think is right...But God judges us all, not just the people you don't like.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Steelplate said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steelplate said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah....because that's what we need more girls with a mouth to feed with no education....and you call him a dumbass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OP did not state nor imply that a pregnant girl be denied educational opportunities. She just cannot study in class at the Charter School. She can be home schooled or placed in a public school where such behavior is tolerated.
> The problem here is the breakdown of morality.
> When I was in school, pregnant girls were held in shame. In other words, the community viewed teen pregnancy as "wrong". Now, a pregnant teen is showered with sympathy. "Oh, sweetie it's not your fault".....Really? Who was there when the egg and sperm met? Someone else?...The sad fact is we are not held accountable for our actions. Someone else can always be blamed.
> The Charter School policy is correct.
> No need for you to reply. You are not changing my mind. I have my core beliefs. Move along.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well....aren't you the snarky asshole? take your core beliefs and stick them up your ass. God would not approve of your judgmentalism. God loves us and decides our fate....not people. Our job is to work together, accept each others' faults and help those in need. Judgmentalism and acting superior is not the work of God. People fall short of God all the time....people have sexual urges, they succumb to all sorts of temptations....Lust, greed, avarice, gluttony, drunkenness....all of those things are sins and go against God.
> 
> Just in writing this I find myself at odds with MY core beliefs... Just remember "let those without sin cast the first stone. I am certainly not without sin and am in no position to cast judgment upon anyone.
> 
> So, no..... I have no intention of "changing your mind".  Do what you think is right...But God judges us all, not just the people you don't like.
Click to expand...


You are now a spokesperson for the almighty?
We all make judgements. That's what separates us from the animals.
We deal in terms of right and wrong. And it is wrong for a girl in school to become pregnant. Period. We do not condemn her. We shame her to instill the notion that what she has done is unacceptable. It is not however a condemnation or a death sentence. That  shame is designed to alert her to never do it again and serves as a warning that being 16 and carrying baby is a horrible idea.
".people have sexual urges, they succumb to all sorts of temptations".....Again, we have rules set up because those temptations should be just that. They should not be acted upon with reckless abandon. If so, there should be consequences.
Just because people make deliberate and conscious errors does not mean we throw our hands in the sir as if to say "surrender". 
God does indeed judge us all. Including the people YOU like or excuse for poor behavior.


----------



## Harry Dresden

rightwinger said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> My son went to private schools all hs life and his class was consistently in the 98th percentile of the nation in reading and math.  They have standards there that are hard to beat!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children.
> The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...


explain California?.....top 5 to bottom 5.........


----------



## jillian

bripat9643 said:


> That stuff isn't half as absurd as the horseshit they learn in government schools like "values clarification."



yes, go around telling people that dinosaurs and humans existed at the same time and the world is 5,000 years old.

moron.


----------



## Harry Dresden

jillian said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That stuff isn't half as absurd as the horseshit they learn in government schools like "values clarification."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, go around telling people that dinosaurs and humans existed at the same time and the world is 5,000 years old.
> 
> moron.
Click to expand...


Jill ......when i went to  Catholic Catechism...we were told that Civilization is that old....not the Earth......even the Jehovah's Witness i shared a house with in the 70's told me that.....as a matter of fact he was an Amateur Astronomer......but was able to quote scripture like know one i have ever met since then,including so called Christians....


----------



## Steelplate

thereisnospoon said:


> Steelplate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP did not state nor imply that a pregnant girl be denied educational opportunities. She just cannot study in class at the Charter School. She can be home schooled or placed in a public school where such behavior is tolerated.
> The problem here is the breakdown of morality.
> When I was in school, pregnant girls were held in shame. In other words, the community viewed teen pregnancy as "wrong". Now, a pregnant teen is showered with sympathy. "Oh, sweetie it's not your fault".....Really? Who was there when the egg and sperm met? Someone else?...The sad fact is we are not held accountable for our actions. Someone else can always be blamed.
> The Charter School policy is correct.
> No need for you to reply. You are not changing my mind. I have my core beliefs. Move along.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well....aren't you the snarky asshole? take your core beliefs and stick them up your ass. God would not approve of your judgmentalism. God loves us and decides our fate....not people. Our job is to work together, accept each others' faults and help those in need. Judgmentalism and acting superior is not the work of God. People fall short of God all the time....people have sexual urges, they succumb to all sorts of temptations....Lust, greed, avarice, gluttony, drunkenness....all of those things are sins and go against God.
> 
> Just in writing this I find myself at odds with MY core beliefs... Just remember "let those without sin cast the first stone. I am certainly not without sin and am in no position to cast judgment upon anyone.
> 
> So, no..... I have no intention of "changing your mind".  Do what you think is right...But God judges us all, not just the people you don't like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are now a spokesperson for the almighty?
> We all make judgements. That's what separates us from the animals.
> We deal in terms of right and wrong. And it is wrong for a girl in school to become pregnant. Period. We do not condemn her. We shame her to instill the notion that what she has done is unacceptable. It is not however a condemnation or a death sentence. That  shame is designed to alert her to never do it again and serves as a warning that being 16 and carrying baby is a horrible idea.
> ".people have sexual urges, they succumb to all sorts of temptations".....Again, we have rules set up because those temptations should be just that. They should not be acted upon with reckless abandon. If so, there should be consequences.
> Just because people make deliberate and conscious errors does not mean we throw our hands in the sir as if to say "surrender".
> God does indeed judge us all. Including the people YOU like or excuse for poor behavior.
Click to expand...


Shame? That's what God means to you? You do realize that God sent his son down to Earth because we always fall short, correct? You do realize that one sin is no different from another in God's eyes? It is even written that if you LOOK at a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery. Let's not even talk about greed. A sin that most conservatives seem to dismiss out of hand. Where's their shame? You can't pick and choose what is sin.....we all sin and a teen that succumbs to a natural urge is no more of a sinner than any other person....they just have a lifetime reminder of their mistake.


----------



## rightwinger

Harry Dresden said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep..And liberal educrats are incensed over this. Especially in states where teachers are unionized. These teachers have been brainwashed by their union reps that they and ONLY they can and should be educating children.
> The big lie. All teachers unions care about is increasing the number of union teaching jobs. Watch closely in the next few weeks how many teacher's unions will go on strike delaying the opening of the new school term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> explain California?.....top 5 to bottom 5.........
Click to expand...


Demographic shift


----------



## Dissent

LordBrownTrout said:


> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have the freedom to send them to govt indoctrination camps.  Hey, but at least they'll know how to roll a condom over a cucumber during government sex hour.
Click to expand...


Its the parents choice,fuck off out of it and let them choose.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Moonglow said:


> Wow, Loiusiana can't go much lower on the education rating scale, so what do they have to loose?



lose


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

bripat9643 said:


> Lakhota said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _By Deanna Pan_
> 
> Slave masters were nice, the KKK is A-OK, and the Great Depression is a liberal fantasy. Thanks, Gov. Jindal!
> 
> Thanks to a new law privatizing public education in Louisiana, Bible-based curriculum can now indoctrinate young, pliant minds with the good news of the Lordall on the state taxpayers' dime.
> 
> Under Gov. Bobby Jindal's voucher program, considered the most sweeping in the country, Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education. While the governor's plan sounds great in the glittery parlance of the state's PR machine, the program is rife with accountability problems that actually haven't been solved by the new standards the Louisiana Department of Education adopted two weeks ago.
> 
> For one, of the 119 (mostly Christian) participating schools, Zack Kopplin, a gutsy college sophomore who's taken to Change.org to stonewall the program, has identified at least 19 that teach or champion creationist nonscience and will rake in nearly $4 million in public funding from the initial round of voucher designations.
> 
> Many of these schools, Kopplin notes, rely on Pensacola-based A Beka Book curriculum or Bob Jones University Press textbooks to teach their pupils Bible-based "facts," such as the existence of Nessie the Loch Ness Monster and all sorts of pseudoscience that researcher Rachel Tabachnick and writer Thomas Vinciguerra have thankfully pored over so the rest of world doesn't have to.
> 
> Here are some of my favorite lessons:
> 
> *1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out:* "Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More holy shit stuff to make sane people cringe: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That stuff isn't half as absurd as the horseshit they learn in government schools like "values clarification."
Click to expand...


Which Louisiana public schools do they teach "values clarification" at?


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Dissent said:


> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.



I gotta pay taxes so people can be taught dragons are real and the KKK wasn't so bad?

Really?


----------



## Katzndogz

I gotta pay taxes so kids will learn that Kings kiss Kings, Heather has two mommies and the US was stolen from mexico.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Katzndogz said:


> I gotta pay taxes so kids will learn that Kings kiss Kings, Heather has two mommies and the US was stolen from mexico.



They don't teach any of that in Louisiana public schools, sorry.


----------



## Dissent

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta pay taxes so people can be taught dragons are real and the KKK wasn't so bad?
> 
> Really?
Click to expand...


So don't pay taxes. I think they are illegal anyways. But those people sending their kids to these schools pay taxes as well.


----------



## blimpo

Charles_Main said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  (serious question)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Private Schools have to Compete for Students. If they keep pumping out kids who can not pass tests, nobody will send their fucking kids there. While Public Schools just keep sucking, and nobody has a choice.
> 
> Why do you think people pay so much to send kids to some of these private schools? Because they are Better at Teaching kids. Period.
Click to expand...




Wrong.

I've taught at both. Basically all teachers are trained the same way in the same education programs. Licenses come from that state.

2 types of people teach in private schools (what I observed).

1. The woman who is married to a man that makes good money and has great benefits through his work (something many private schools lack).
Typically, this person will sacrifice higher pay and benefits to avoid the behavioral problems public school teachers must handle.
They want to teach, they just don't want the crap that teachers must deal with in public schools. 
2. Teachers that have many applications turned in to public schools yet have seen no interest in being hired. Most are young and feel they can handle a few years with no health insurance and time on the job will add to their resume for the next round of applications.

The MAIN difference in private vs. public is what comes in the door in the morning in the form of students.
Private schools can pick and choose the students they want while public schools are like animal shelters, taking whatever is brought in the door.  BIG DIFFERENCE

Imagine a school that recruits and chooses football players vs the school that fields a team from the student body. That is what is happening to states that have class sports. The private schools are mopping up the championships in most classes.
It's not that much different in regard to results in the classroom.

Schools that can "cherry pick" students are always going to have better academic records than schools that must take whatever the cat drags in...

To try and compare the two is ignorant at best.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Dissent said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta pay taxes so people can be taught dragons are real and the KKK wasn't so bad?
> 
> Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So don't pay taxes. I think they are illegal anyways. But those people sending their kids to these schools pay taxes as well.
Click to expand...


Taxes are illegal? LOL! OK!


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

blimpo said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  (serious question)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because Private Schools have to Compete for Students. If they keep pumping out kids who can not pass tests, nobody will send their fucking kids there. While Public Schools just keep sucking, and nobody has a choice.
> 
> Why do you think people pay so much to send kids to some of these private schools? Because they are Better at Teaching kids. Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> I've taught at both. Basically all teachers are trained the same way in the same education programs. Licenses come from that state.
> 
> 2 types of people teach in private schools (what I observed).
> 
> 1. The woman who is married to a man that makes good money and has great benefits through his work (something many private schools lack).
> Typically, this person will sacrifice higher pay and benefits to avoid the behavioral problems public school teachers must handle.
> They want to teach, they just don't want the crap that teachers must deal with in public schools.
> 2. Teachers that have many applications turned in to public schools yet have seen no interest in being hired. Most are young and feel they can handle a few years with no health insurance and time on the job will add to their resume for the next round of applications.
> 
> The MAIN difference in private vs. public is what comes in the door in the morning in the form of students.
> Private schools can pick and choose the students they want while public schools are like animal shelters, taking whatever is brought in the door.  BIG DIFFERENCE
> 
> Imagine a school that recruits and chooses football players vs the school that fields a team from the student body. That is what is happening to states that have class sports. The private schools are mopping up the championships in most classes.
> It's not that much different in regard to results in the classroom.
> 
> Schools that can "cherry pick" students are always going to have better academic records than schools that must take whatever the cat drags in...
> 
> To try and compare the two is ignorant at best.
Click to expand...


3. Former public school teachers that are willing to take a cut to pay and benefits to teach in a better environment.


----------



## Harry Dresden

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> explain California?.....top 5 to bottom 5.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Demographic shift
Click to expand...


so are you saying Latinos are stupid OR part of the problem?......because everytime i mention how California's Immigration problem has brought the Education system down here i get a bunch of shit from the Lefties here,to the point of being called a BIGOT......


----------



## bodecea

Harry Dresden said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> explain California?.....top 5 to bottom 5.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demographic shift
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so are you saying Latinos are stupid OR part of the problem?......because everytime i mention how California's Immigration problem has brought the Education system down here i get a bunch of shit from the Lefties here,to the point of being called a BIGOT......
Click to expand...


No, you are right...in a way.  

For example....the school district next to where I live.   There is one middle school where 80% of the parents are illiterate...in any language.   It is the smallest area because of high density housing in apartments, homes with as many at 20 living in a house, etc.  High turnover because where the migrants live.  Held to the same standard and punished by the state if their scores don't rise.


----------



## blimpo

OohPooPahDoo said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because Private Schools have to Compete for Students. If they keep pumping out kids who can not pass tests, nobody will send their fucking kids there. While Public Schools just keep sucking, and nobody has a choice.
> 
> Why do you think people pay so much to send kids to some of these private schools? Because they are Better at Teaching kids. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> I've taught at both. Basically all teachers are trained the same way in the same education programs. Licenses come from that state.
> 
> 2 types of people teach in private schools (what I observed).
> 
> 1. The woman who is married to a man that makes good money and has great benefits through his work (something many private schools lack).
> Typically, this person will sacrifice higher pay and benefits to avoid the behavioral problems public school teachers must handle.
> They want to teach, they just don't want the crap that teachers must deal with in public schools.
> 2. Teachers that have many applications turned in to public schools yet have seen no interest in being hired. Most are young and feel they can handle a few years with no health insurance and time on the job will add to their resume for the next round of applications.
> 
> The MAIN difference in private vs. public is what comes in the door in the morning in the form of students.
> Private schools can pick and choose the students they want while public schools are like animal shelters, taking whatever is brought in the door.  BIG DIFFERENCE
> 
> Imagine a school that recruits and chooses football players vs the school that fields a team from the student body. That is what is happening to states that have class sports. The private schools are mopping up the championships in most classes.
> It's not that much different in regard to results in the classroom.
> 
> Schools that can "cherry pick" students are always going to have better academic records than schools that must take whatever the cat drags in...
> 
> To try and compare the two is ignorant at best.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 3. Former public school teachers that are willing to take a cut to pay and benefits to teach in a better environment.
Click to expand...



That's another one.


----------



## Stephanie

well DON'T MOVE to that state 

problem SOLVED or just bitch about something..

good grief more hufferpost and Mother Jones troll shit


----------



## Dissent

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta pay taxes so people can be taught dragons are real and the KKK wasn't so bad?
> 
> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So don't pay taxes. I think they are illegal anyways. But those people sending their kids to these schools pay taxes as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Taxes are illegal? LOL! OK!
Click to expand...


Yes. Theft is illegal. We don't voluntarily give part of our paychecks to the government they take it. That's called theft.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Dissent said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So don't pay taxes. I think they are illegal anyways. But those people sending their kids to these schools pay taxes as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taxes are illegal? LOL! OK!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. Theft is illegal. We don't voluntarily give part of our paychecks to the government they take it. That's called theft.
Click to expand...


You're a moron.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Lakhota said:


> More holy shit stuff to make sane people cringe: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones



Yeah, too bad virtually none of it is true.

But hey, you're leftists, you HAVE to lie...


----------



## Dissent

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Taxes are illegal? LOL! OK!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Theft is illegal. We don't voluntarily give part of our paychecks to the government they take it. That's called theft.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're a moron.
Click to expand...


Coming from an anonymous jack ass on the internet I am truly crushed by your words.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Moonglow said:


> Wow, Loiusiana can't go much lower on the education rating scale, so what do they have to loose?



The anti-Christian bigotry of you morons is astounding.

Of course you are RIGHT to fear, because what REALLY happened is that parents have CHOICE. Parents can choose the best education for their children, and that sure the fuck won't help the failed public schools.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Lakhota said:


> This nonsense is why America is going to shit.  Texas executed a guy today with an IQ of 61,



Joe Biden was executed? 



> and he was probably smarter than these religious nuts running around loose.



Choice, the greatest fear of the left...


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Why?  (serious question)



So Shortbus

Students from ________ schools consistently perform better on standardized testing.

A.) Public
B.) Private

Any of you shit fer brains leftists, which is the correct answer?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dick Tuck said:


> Not quite.  Jindal is using the states tax money to teach kids how to be stupid.  It's no wonder that most right wingers are complete unthinking idiots.



No, Jindal is offering CHOICE to parents, so that kids can get high quality education, something public schools are not capable of providing.

You morons love abortion, but you fear and loath choice.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dick Tuck said:


> I attended a Catholic grade school and University.  They never tried to teach the shit that the bible thumper schools are teaching.   People and dinosaurs coexisted???  The Trail of Tears was God's attempt to convert Indians???  The KKK was a respected organization that went after bootleggers???  Slave owners were usually kind????
> 
> These are some fucked up people.



Look, you're a fucking moron - and you never attended a university. The Mother Jones libel didn't actually claim that any school was teaching the bullshit they posted. Instead they culled out of context snippets from a supposed text book found at Bob Jones University.

Mother Jones is a sleazy publication, and this is low for even their almost non-existent standards.

The left is in full melt down.


----------



## squeeze berry

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta pay taxes so people can be taught dragons are real and the KKK wasn't so bad?
> 
> Really?
Click to expand...


the article in the OP has yet to convince me that is actually happening.

I'm..... well, skeptical.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Political Junky said:


> I'll bet they don't teach about the Loch Ness monster, or that people co-existed with dinosaurs, or that the KKK was good.



I'll bet you can't find any school, anywhere that does, either.

But hey, Mother Jones has an agenda, and it ain't disseminating facts.


----------



## Uncensored2008

rightwinger said:


> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states



Utter fucking bullshit.



> You get what you pay for.



The lies you tell are jaw dropping.

New York and California have some of the worst schools in the nation, and pay union thugs the highest wages.


----------



## Uncensored2008

rightwinger said:


> Look up the term demographics



Look up the term "fucking liar."


----------



## Uncensored2008

jillian said:


> yes, go around telling people that dinosaurs and humans existed at the same time and the world is 5,000 years old.
> 
> moron.



Or we could tell them that soda pop is making the oceans rise.

Moron.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Leftists despise anything that threatens the public school status quo.
There are several factions. First, the teacher's unions. Those people care only about increasing the number of jobs for teachers and expanding benefits. One benefit teachers obsess over is tenure. Tenure is a virtual guarantee of absolute job security and if in the event the teacher is fired, they cannot lose their benefits or pension.
This kind of guarantee does not exist in the private sector. It should NEVER exist in the public sector. 
Second, school boards. These people enjoy their status as having absolute taxing authority. In many states, school boards can and do approve budgets for schools without regard to public input. That is outrageous. Too often, school board members are lobbied by teacher's unions who then in turn promise to support candidates favorable to teacher's union demands.
Third. Educrats. These are professional public worker/administrators which dream up stuff such as outcome based education, eliminating grades and other garbage. These are the people who like to say to certain constituents "see what I am doing for you!!"
Long ago public education stopped being about the students.


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look up the term demographics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look up the term "fucking liar."
Click to expand...


I believe you missed the guy's point


----------



## thereisnospoon

Uncensored2008 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Utter fucking bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You get what you pay for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The lies you tell are jaw dropping.
> 
> New York and California have some of the worst schools in the nation, and pay union thugs the highest wages.
Click to expand...

Even in union states, most private school teachers are non union. They are paid more because it is logical to do so, but there are no union thugs lurking about to muck up the works. There are no teachers strikes or any other nonsense.


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> I believe you missed the guy's point



The guy, "Right Winger" is what we commonly term a "fucking liar." What he claims is utterly false, but he doesn't care. He formulates what he says to serve his shameful party, and has no regard for whether it happens to be true or not.

The demographics of California are a matter of choice. We choose to encourage illegal immigration. We are not getting Mexico's best and brightest - quite the opposite.


----------



## buckeye45_73

Lakhota said:


> Sooo, Jesus was God's son but also God himself. Okay, then why was he such a mild-mannered hippie community organizer on the ground and such a prick in the sky? That's some serious Jekyll and Hyde shit.


 
Who said Jesus was a hippie? Now hippies may have wanted to be like Jesus, although I dont think he was an atheist or into free love...


----------



## buckeye45_73

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you missed the guy's point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy, "Right Winger" is what we commonly term a "fucking liar." What he claims is utterly false, but he doesn't care. He formulates what he says to serve his shameful party, and has no regard for whether it happens to be true or not.
> 
> The demographics of California are a matter of choice. We choose to encourage illegal immigration. We are not getting Mexico's best and brightest - quite the opposite.
Click to expand...

 
To liberals they are the brightest....which is all you need to know


----------



## buckeye45_73

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students in states where teachers are unionized perform better than students in right to work states
> 
> You get what you pay for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> explain California?.....top 5 to bottom 5.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Demographic shift
Click to expand...

 

*sniff* *sniff*......well the fake righty may be correct, but in his mind he's a racist.....lol


----------



## buckeye45_73

Steelplate said:


> Mr.Nick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whaaaa?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose it depends on the test of which there are several standardized tests...
> 
> Every test has a different standard...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yep...that's why most States don't rely on IQ tests alone. They use observational tests too. They look at conceptual skills, functional skills, etc.
> 
> Conceptual skills would include thing like the concept of money and what it's used for.
> 
> Functional skills would include basic ADL(activities of daily living) skills. Like dressing bone's self, putting your shoes on the right feet, and correcting it if the person gets it wrong(knowing that it feels wrong).
> 
> There's more to it than just an IQ test. I'm not a Psychologist, so I don't know everything that goes into it, but as an aide, I have assisted in many of them.
Click to expand...

 

So do gays fail the observational tests? I mean they cant put the right things in the right holes.


----------



## buckeye45_73

buckeye45_73 said:


> You know why liberals hate vouchers. They dont want black kids comming in their precious schools with the rich white folks. Why do they try so hard to deny minorities and the economically disavantaged to be able to attend a decent school?


 

so liberals why do you have black kids so much?


----------



## hortysir

Moonglow said:


> Wow, Loiusiana can't go much lower on the education rating scale, so what do they have to loose?


23rd, actually

Education Week: Quality Counts 2012 - State Report Cards


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994
> 
> Gay people "have no more claims to special rights than child molesters or rapists."Teacher's Resource Guide to Current Events for Christian Schools, 1998-1999, Bob Jones University Press, 1998



Thus Louisiana will remain a Third World country.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Dissent said:


> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.



Tax monies in vouchers should not be going to religious private schools.


----------



## JakeStarkey

driveby said:


> Crazy, next thing you know they'll be singing "mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussein Obama"......



As bad as that or as bad as "mmm mmmm mmm  . . . Willard Mitt Romney". . . far worse is "Jesus and Dinosaurs were buddies in pre-school."


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you missed the guy's point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy, "Right Winger" is what we commonly term a "fucking liar." What he claims is utterly false, but he doesn't care. He formulates what he says to serve his shameful party, and has no regard for whether it happens to be true or not.
> 
> The demographics of California are a matter of choice. We choose to encourage illegal immigration. *We are not getting Mexico's best and brightest - quite the opposite*.
Click to expand...


wasn't that his point?


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tax monies in vouchers should not be going to religious private schools.
Click to expand...


The money goes to fund an education that less fortunate people to which said quality education is financially out of reach.


----------



## hortysir

hortysir said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, Loiusiana can't go much lower on the education rating scale, so what do they have to loose?
> 
> 
> 
> 23rd, actually
> 
> Education Week: Quality Counts 2012 - State Report Cards
Click to expand...




Ranked above the nation's average, DE, ME, IL, NH, and even CA


----------



## squeeze berry

Lakhota said:


>



Is this from a textbook or are you being dishonest?


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  (serious question)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Shortbus
> 
> Students from ________ schools consistently perform better on standardized testing.
> 
> A.) Public
> B.) Private
> 
> Any of you shit fer brains leftists, which is the correct answer?
Click to expand...


read Blimpo's post. That's all you need to know.

BTW,  Blimpo is not a leftist so don't go there.


----------



## Lakhota

Bobby Jindal School Voucher System Blasted As 'Destruction Of Education' By Religious Group


----------



## Stephanie

Lakhota said:


> Bobby Jindal School Voucher System Blasted As 'Destruction Of Education' By Religious Group



oh man you are a real yawner..and troll


----------



## JakeStarkey

Here is another useful tool of the progressive and statist Far Right: redistribution of taxes for religious schooling.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dissent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 19 out of 119. SO DON'T SEND YOUR KIDS THERE FUCKHEAD! Jesus h christ...liberals bitch and moan fest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tax monies in vouchers should not be going to religious private schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The money goes to fund an education that less fortunate people to which said quality education is financially out of reach.
Click to expand...


----------



## Harry Dresden

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you missed the guy's point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy, "Right Winger" is what we commonly term a "fucking liar." What he claims is utterly false, but he doesn't care. He formulates what he says to serve his shameful party, and has no regard for whether it happens to be true or not.
> 
> The demographics of California are a matter of choice. We choose to encourage illegal immigration.* We are not getting Mexico's best and brightest - quite the opposite*.
Click to expand...


i cant argue with that.....and i know plenty of Mexicans who would agree with that.....


----------



## Harry Dresden

squeeze berry said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you missed the guy's point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy, "Right Winger" is what we commonly term a "fucking liar." What he claims is utterly false, but he doesn't care. He formulates what he says to serve his shameful party, and has no regard for whether it happens to be true or not.
> 
> The demographics of California are a matter of choice. We choose to encourage illegal immigration. *We are not getting Mexico's best and brightest - quite the opposite*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wasn't that his point?
Click to expand...


whenever i have said that as a reason Cal has gone downhill in Education.....many here on the left have insinuated im a .......bigot.....and have something against the Brown folk.....RW says it.....those same people dont say shit.....


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Here is another useful tool of the progressive and statist Far Right: redistribution of taxes for religious schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tax monies in vouchers should not be going to religious private schools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The money goes to fund an education that less fortunate people to which said quality education is financially out of reach.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

What is your objection to offering poor and middle class kids an extraordinary educational opportunity? And please spare me the separation of church and state bullshit.


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, Loiusiana can't go much lower on the education rating scale, so what do they have to loose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The anti-Christian bigotry of you morons is astounding.
> 
> Of course you are RIGHT to fear, because what REALLY happened is that parents have CHOICE. Parents can choose the best education for their children, and that sure the fuck won't help the failed public schools.
Click to expand...



If your kid has your attitude, be prepared for the public school, the place where private schools send their problems. This is called competition?


----------



## Zoom

Steelplate said:


> no matter how bad it gets...they defend it...wow.


----------



## Lakhota

Southern inbreeding is getting totally out of control.

Missouri 'Right To Pray' Amendment Allows Students To Reject School Assignments That 'Violate His Or Her Religious Beliefs'


----------



## JakeStarkey

To be taught that Jesus rode dinosaurs?



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another useful tool of the progressive and statist Far Right: redistribution of taxes for religious schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The money goes to fund an education that less fortunate people to which said quality education is financially out of reach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your objection to offering poor and middle class kids an extraordinary educational opportunity? And please spare me the separation of church and state bullshit.
Click to expand...


----------



## Political Junky

Lakhota said:


> Bobby Jindal School Voucher System Blasted As 'Destruction Of Education' By Religious Group


Gaddy is a good guy. That was quite the letter he wrote to Jindal, scolding him.
Jindal was a Rhodes Scholar, and is doing this for no other reason than to appeal to the teabaggers.
He graduated from Brown, and a Masters from Oxford.


----------



## squeeze berry

Lakhota said:


> Southern inbreeding is getting totally out of control.
> 
> Missouri 'Right To Pray' Amendment Allows Students To Reject School Assignments That 'Violate His Or Her Religious Beliefs'



says the unbiased tolerant "progressive"


----------



## squeeze berry

JakeStarkey said:


> To be taught that Jesus rode dinosaurs?
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another useful tool of the progressive and statist Far Right: redistribution of taxes for religious schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your objection to offering poor and middle class kids an extraordinary educational opportunity? And please spare me the separation of church and state bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


can you prove that is actually happening?


----------



## hortysir

JakeStarkey said:


> To be taught that Jesus rode dinosaurs?
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another useful tool of the progressive and statist Far Right: redistribution of taxes for religious schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your objection to offering poor and middle class kids an extraordinary educational opportunity? And please spare me the separation of church and state bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God.



In this passage, "the Word" is Jesus Christ.
He was there "In the beginning".

Can you prove He did NOT ride a dinosaur?


----------



## Uncensored2008

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Thus Louisiana will remain a Third World country.



Yet still ahead of California, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Illinois in educational excellence...


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> wasn't that his point?



No.

Why do you ask?


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Tax monies in vouchers should not be going to religious private schools.



That you are anti-Choice is no surprise.

What's a brain-dead democrat like you to do?


----------



## Uncensored2008

hortysir said:


> Ranked above the nation's average, DE, ME, IL, NH, and even CA



In all fairness, only one state is ranked below CA. (Arkansas)


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> Is this from a textbook or are you being dishonest?



You know that "the textbook" isn't actually used in any schools, that Mother Jones is just running libel in hopes of stopping school choice. Their article, had you read it, simply said that this TYPE of textbook MIGHT be used, since private schools are allowed.


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Here is another useful tool of the progressive and statist Far Right: redistribution of taxes for religious schooling.



It's called "freedom," Fakey. You leftists can't grasp the concept. Parents actually being able to decide what school to send their children to.

Hey fakey, which has consistently higher standardized test scores, public, or private schools?

Dumbass.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Harry Dresden said:


> i cant argue with that.....and i know plenty of Mexicans who would agree with that.....



Mexico has the 7th most prosperous economy in the world. They have plenty of smart and prosperous people.


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> If your kid has your attitude, be prepared for the public school, the place where private schools send their problems. This is called competition?



Public schools are a conflict of interest. That they perform poorly is only one aspect or the problem. Public schools are by nature there to serve the interest of the government, not the student. Children are prepared in public schools to obey authority, to not question rulers, to recite mantras, and mostly how to be institutionalized so that should they graduate to prison, they will know how to act.

What public schools do NOT prepare children for is critical thought, investigative curiosity, questioning dogma, developing a standard of ethics, valuing integrity above authority.

Yes, it's true that public schools fail to teach math, science, music, legitimate history, etc. But that is a symptom of the issue. The actual issue is that public schools are intended to indoctrinate a subservient populace, not educate a free people.


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> To be taught that Jesus rode dinosaurs?



Instead they should be taught that soda pop bubbles make Gaea cry and the oceans rise.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Political Junky said:


> Gaddy is a good guy. That was quite the letter he wrote to Jindal, scolding him.
> Jindal was a Rhodes Scholar, and is doing this for no other reason than to appeal to the teabaggers.
> He graduated from Brown, and a Masters from Oxford.



You truly fear freedom of choice in education. 

Clearly you know that socialized schools can't compete in an open system.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gaddy is a good guy. That was quite the letter he wrote to Jindal, scolding him.
> Jindal was a Rhodes Scholar, and is doing this for no other reason than to appeal to the teabaggers.
> He graduated from Brown, and a Masters from Oxford.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You truly fear freedom of choice in education.
> 
> Clearly you know that socialized schools can't compete in an open system.
Click to expand...


You like the system they use in Mexico, eh?   How's that working for them?


----------



## Katzndogz

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta pay taxes so kids will learn that Kings kiss Kings, Heather has two mommies and the US was stolen from mexico.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't teach any of that in Louisiana public schools, sorry.
Click to expand...


Not yet anyway.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> You like the system they use in Mexico, eh?   How's that working for them?



Short bus, don't try to keep up with adult conversations.

Mexico has nationalized education. It is controlled at the federal level.


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> i cant argue with that.....and i know plenty of Mexicans who would agree with that.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexico has the 7th most prosperous economy in the world. They have plenty of smart and prosperous people.
Click to expand...


if they are that prosperous, then why don't they stay home?


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> if they are that prosperous, then why don't they stay home?



Because Mexico is a social democracy (Euro socialist) and has a caste system that excludes the darker skinned portions of the population from economic success. So the Mestizos flee to the USA for a combination of easy welfare and more opportunity in the job market.

This has destroyed the entry level job market. A 35 year old illegal and a 16 year old America both want to work at McDonalds for the same wage. But the illegal is an adult who will be more reliable, so who is going to get the job? Same thing with paper routs, mowing lawns, and a thousand other low end jobs.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> To be taught that Jesus rode dinosaurs?
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is another useful tool of the progressive and statist Far Right: redistribution of taxes for religious schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> What is your objection to offering poor and middle class kids an extraordinary educational opportunity? And please spare me the separation of church and state bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


One who answers a question with a question has no rebuttal.
I asked you a direct question. A direct answer is requested.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Lakhota said:


> Southern inbreeding is getting totally out of control.
> 
> Missouri 'Right To Pray' Amendment Allows Students To Reject School Assignments That 'Violate His Or Her Religious Beliefs'


This applies to ALL religions. 
Now go put some ice on your chin after your ridiculous knee jerk reaction.


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your kid has your attitude, be prepared for the public school, the place where private schools send their problems. This is called competition?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Public schools are a conflict of interest. That they perform poorly is only one aspect or the problem. Public schools are by nature there to serve the interest of the government, not the student. Children are prepared in public schools to obey authority, to not question rulers, to recite mantras, and mostly how to be institutionalized so that should they graduate to prison, they will know how to act.
> 
> What public schools do NOT prepare children for is critical thought, investigative curiosity, questioning dogma, developing a standard of ethics, valuing integrity above authority.
> 
> Yes, it's true that public schools fail to teach math, science, music, legitimate history, etc. But that is a symptom of the issue. The actual issue is that public schools are intended to indoctrinate a subservient populace, not educate a free people.
Click to expand...




How is the temperature on Mars?

Is the equipment functional?


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> i cant argue with that.....and i know plenty of Mexicans who would agree with that.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexico has the 7th most prosperous economy in the world. They have plenty of smart and prosperous people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if they are that prosperous, then why don't they stay home?
Click to expand...

Because Mexico is by and large a nation of uneducated people. The government has made laws where the government gives the appearance of benevolence to the people. But the ruling elite class with ties to or is pert of the government collects all wealth then redistributes just enough to the people to keep them miserable.
Sort of what the libs here want to see.


----------



## hortysir

Uncensored2008 said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ranked above the nation's average, DE, ME, IL, NH, and even CA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In all fairness, only one state is ranked below CA. (Arkansas)
Click to expand...


I was using the rankings from this site:

Education Week: Quality Counts 2012 - State Report Cards


----------



## Political Junky

In recently released rankings of how states' primary education systems are preparing students for careers in engineering, *Massachusetts, Minnesota and New Jersey top the list.* *Mississippi trails as the worst in the country, following West Virginia and Louisiana.*

State Education Rankings: The Best And Worst For Math And Science


----------



## hortysir

Political Junky said:


> In recently released rankings of how states' primary education systems are preparing students for careers in engineering, *Massachusetts, Minnesota and New Jersey top the list.* *Mississippi trails as the worst in the country, following West Virginia and Louisiana.*
> 
> State Education Rankings: The Best And Worst For Math And Science




Shows to Go ya, how Huffers will dig and dig until they find a source that supports the skewed data they want to promote.

Take a look at the list of Funders at the site I linked, then wonder why any left-leaning progressive wouldn't want to use their data:

Philanthropy


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> How is the temperature on Mars?
> 
> Is the equipment functional?



I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess that you collect a government paycheck.....


----------



## Uncensored2008

hortysir said:


> I was using the rankings from this site:
> 
> Education Week: Quality Counts 2012 - State Report Cards



Apparently the test results are uncomfortable for educrats, so a new measure of ranking has been devised that includes spending as a positive metric, giving states like California a boost due to the high number of dollars spent per student, even though test scores remain at the bottom of the heap.

I must modify my earlier statement, California has improved from 49th to 43rd in actual testing metrics.

{California ranked:

47th for fourth-grade reading

45th for fourth-grade math

49th for eighth-grade reading

48th for eighth -grade math }

IWF - Eyebrow-Raising Education Rankings in California


----------



## Ariux

Kakhota gets to move to the front of the class for shitheads.  The fucktard thinks private school teach wacky things (relative to the public schools).  How f-ing stupid!  And, even if private schools were wackier, only a fascist shithead (that's Kakhota and his fellow fags) would think it's the government's job to tell people's kids what they're to believe about things.


----------



## Harry Dresden

hortysir said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be taught that Jesus rode dinosaurs?
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your objection to offering poor and middle class kids an extraordinary educational opportunity? And please spare me the separation of church and state bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> John 1:1
> 
> In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God.
> 
> 
> 
> In this passage, "the Word" is Jesus Christ.
> He was there "In the beginning".
> 
> Can you prove He did NOT ride a dinosaur?
Click to expand...

i dont think he meant on the Earth Horty.......just sayin....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Uncensored2008 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> i cant argue with that.....and i know plenty of Mexicans who would agree with that.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mexico has the 7th most prosperous economy in the world. They have plenty of smart and prosperous people.
Click to expand...


oh i agree....but most of them stayed in Mexico.....


----------



## hortysir

Harry Dresden said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be taught that Jesus rode dinosaurs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John 1:1
> 
> In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God.
> 
> 
> 
> In this passage, "the Word" is Jesus Christ.
> He was there "In the beginning".
> 
> Can you prove He did NOT ride a dinosaur?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i dont think he meant on the Earth Horty.......just sayin....
Click to expand...



Not so sure, Harry.

Did you know Jesus was at Jericho when the walls fell?


----------



## Harry Dresden

hortysir said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> 
> John 1:1
> 
> In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God.
> 
> 
> 
> In this passage, "the Word" is Jesus Christ.
> He was there "In the beginning".
> 
> Can you prove He did NOT ride a dinosaur?
> 
> 
> 
> i dont think he meant on the Earth Horty.......just sayin....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not so sure, Harry.
> 
> Did you know Jesus was at Jericho when the walls fell?
Click to expand...


so that was him.....his hair was darker.....he looked different.....


----------



## hortysir

the Son was shining


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is the temperature on Mars?
> 
> Is the equipment functional?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess that you collect a government paycheck.....
Click to expand...



I taught at one time and I'm flabergasted at all the misinformation out there about what goes on in a classroom on a day to day basis.

if you haven't been there you have no idea...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Some of the extreme conservative religionists here demonstrate the difference between faith hope and understanding empirical data.

Thank heavens for public schools, I am sure Jesus is saying.


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> I taught at one time and I'm flabergasted at all the misinformation out there about what goes on in a classroom on a day to day basis.
> 
> if you haven't been there you have no idea...



You seek to protect the public employee unions, not to provide a quality education to children.

Just as the food served in school cafeterias is costly, yet inferior, the education provided is costly and inferior, because there is no competition and the schools are run to benefit teachers and administrators, not to provide an education. After all, why should public schools focus on providing the service they are paid for? The have a captive customer.

This is why you fear choice, once there is competition, the inferior performance of public schools will be taken into account by the customers, who will choose higher quality. Further, you KNOW the public schools are inferior, or you would be confident that any parent would choose them. Instead, you fear that none will, not even left wingers - because ultimately, the product is inferior and even leftists want their children to do well.


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Some of the extreme conservative religionists here demonstrate the difference between faith hope and understanding empirical data.
> 
> Thank heavens for public schools, I am sure Jesus is saying.



You understand Fakey, that with choice, you'll still be free to send your kids to public school so they can read Chomsky and Zinn, and praise Gaea for forgiving their carbon sins.

You just won't be able to force OTHER people's kids into the same sub-standard schools.


----------



## regent

The parents and others pay for the schools, and it is their children they send off to the schools to be educated, but the problem seems to be, should schools, teach what the school believes to be true or what the parents believe to be true?


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I taught at one time and I'm flabergasted at all the misinformation out there about what goes on in a classroom on a day to day basis.
> 
> if you haven't been there you have no idea...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You seek to protect the public employee unions, not to provide a quality education to children.
> 
> Just as the food served in school cafeterias is costly, yet inferior, the education provided is costly and inferior, because there is no competition and the schools are run to benefit teachers and administrators, not to provide an education. After all, why should public schools focus on providing the service they are paid for? The have a captive customer.
> 
> This is why you fear choice, once there is competition, the inferior performance of public schools will be taken into account by the customers, who will choose higher quality. Further, you KNOW the public schools are inferior, or you would be confident that any parent would choose them. Instead, you fear that none will, not even left wingers - because ultimately, the product is inferior and even leftists want their children to do well.
Click to expand...




Look, I've taught in both private and public and your basis for the cause of failure is way off base.

In a car race, what drivers are using the most effort and skill?

1. Guys up front that have a great setup with the car balanced and little turning of the steering wheel--
2. Guys in the back with cars that are loose (want to spin out) or tight, (won't turn) must constantly fight to keep the car straight, and are jerking the steering wheel all over the place--

From what I've seen and experienced, the guys in the rear are using extreme skill levels just to try and keep up. The guys up front could smoke a cigarette and drive with one hand.

If these were classrooms (cars) and teachers (drivers), which one do you think is working harder? 

(Leaving out the fact that the car can't talk so a disruption example can't be used. But if it could, in what classroom is the teacher working hardest trying to maintain control?

What it boils down to is mostly what gets off the busses in the morning.


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> Look, I've taught in both private and public and your basis for the cause of failure is way off base.
> 
> In a car race, what drivers are using the most effort and skill?
> 
> 1. Guys up front that have a great setup with the car balanced and little turning of the steering wheel--
> 2. Guys in the back with cars that are loose (want to spin out) or tight, (won't turn) must constantly fight to keep the car straight, and are jerking the steering wheel all over the place--
> 
> From what I've seen and experienced, the guys in the rear are using extreme skill levels just to try and keep up. The guys up front could smoke a cigarette and drive with one hand.



That must be why none of them ever crash...

I strongly urge that you stand next to the podium and shout at the driver, with your best Obama arrogance, "You didn't win that, someone else did."



> If these were classrooms (cars) and teachers (drivers), which one do you think is working harder?
> 
> (Leaving out the fact that the car can't talk so a disruption example can't be used. But if it could, in what classroom is the teacher working hardest trying to maintain control?
> 
> What it boils down to is mostly what gets off the busses in the morning.



If the only element is the student, then we should do away with teachers, use guards to keep the inmates, er students, in line, and employe electronic learning programs.

Although, I have experiences where teachers have challenged and inspired me to excel. I have had students tell me that I inspired them to put forth a bit more effort.

Perhaps your approach explains a great deal of the failure of the public schools.


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, I've taught in both private and public and your basis for the cause of failure is way off base.
> 
> In a car race, what drivers are using the most effort and skill?
> 
> 1. Guys up front that have a great setup with the car balanced and little turning of the steering wheel--
> 2. Guys in the back with cars that are loose (want to spin out) or tight, (won't turn) must constantly fight to keep the car straight, and are jerking the steering wheel all over the place--
> 
> From what I've seen and experienced, the guys in the rear are using extreme skill levels just to try and keep up. The guys up front could smoke a cigarette and drive with one hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That must be why none of them ever crash...
> 
> I strongly urge that you stand next to the podium and shout at the driver, with your best Obama arrogance, "You didn't win that, someone else did."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If these were classrooms (cars) and teachers (drivers), which one do you think is working harder?
> 
> (Leaving out the fact that the car can't talk so a disruption example can't be used. But if it could, in what classroom is the teacher working hardest trying to maintain control?
> 
> What it boils down to is mostly what gets off the busses in the morning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> {If the only element is the student, then we should do away with teachers, use guards to keep the inmates, er students, in line, and employe electronic learning programs.
> 
> Although, I have experiences where teachers have challenged and inspired me to excel. I have had students tell me that I inspired them to put forth a bit more effort.
> 
> Perhaps your approach explains a great deal of the failure of the public schools}.
Click to expand...



{That must be why none of them ever crash...

I strongly urge that you stand next to the podium and shout at the driver, with your best Obama arrogance, "You didn't win that, someone else did."}


What the hell does winning the race have to do with what I said? I'm talking about effort in comparing teaching situations.




Perhaps your approach explains a great deal as to why logic classes should be manditory for posters.

You just blew off my legitimate anology with more hot air than has been assalting the Midwest over the last few months.

Let me simplify, teachers in 'failing schools' (what we're talking about are inner-city schools) have jobs that might force them to actually work harder than teachers in the affluent suburban schools while trying to get results the suburban schools take for granted.
Simply that.
Instead of discussing what I said you bring in Obama. What the hell does he have to do with what I was trying to explain?
My approach? What approach. I was explaining real world situations.
You have no idea where, what, or how I taught. My approach isn't involved in the examples I used. 
Debate the theory I proposed. I hear enough political crap from the ads on TV.


----------



## initforme

"Public schools are a conflict of interest. That they perform poorly is only one aspect or the problem. Public schools are by nature there to serve the interest of the government, not the student. Children are prepared in public schools to obey authority, to not question rulers, to recite mantras, and mostly how to be institutionalized so that should they graduate to prison, they will know how to act.

What public schools do NOT prepare children for is critical thought, investigative curiosity, questioning dogma, developing a standard of ethics, valuing integrity above authority.

Yes, it's true that public schools fail to teach math, science, music, legitimate history, etc. But that is a symptom of the issue. The actual issue is that public schools are intended to indoctrinate a subservient populace, not educate a free people. "


The indoctrination rhetoric again.   The biggest problem facing schools is the complete lack of parenting by a large percentage of american parents.  You want kids to question rulers correct?  Thats fine, but the minute somone questions or says something negative about the US you are the first to cry out thats anti american.   Well take a look from my aspect.  If I have a teacher spouting off about how great the us is then I am going to the school board right now COMPLAINING about indoctrination.
__________________


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> What the hell does winning the race have to do with what I said? I'm talking about effort in comparing teaching situations.



You brought up race car drivers, sparky. I urge you to tell them they didn't win - they didn't do that, someone (Obama) else did.



> Perhaps your approach explains a great deal as to why logic classes should be manditory for posters.
> 
> You just blew off my legitimate anology with more hot air than has been assalting the Midwest over the last few months.



Actually, I refuted your poorly chosen analogy in simile. (It means, "in the same line of reasoning.")



> Let me simplify, teachers in 'failing schools' (what we're talking about are inner-city schools) have jobs that might force them to actually work harder than teachers in the affluent suburban schools while trying to get results the suburban schools take for granted.
> Simply that.



Work harder in what way? As jailers? Trying to keep peace in the inmates who have no interest in education?

One may question compulsory education in that case.



> Instead of discussing what I said you bring in Obama. What the hell does he have to do with what I was trying to explain?



I'm urging you to tell race car drivers up at the podium that they didn't win the race. It's Obama's line, but you can borrow it.



> My approach? What approach. I was explaining real world situations.
> You have no idea where, what, or how I taught. My approach isn't involved in the examples I used.
> Debate the theory I proposed. I hear enough political crap from the ads on TV.



The fact is that public schools are a failure, and the providing parents CHOICE in education is the only rational approach. Those who oppose choice are driven by knowledge that public schools are inferior and will NOT be chosen by the majority of parents.


----------



## Uncensored2008

initforme said:


> The indoctrination rhetoric again.



Fact remains fact.



> The biggest problem facing schools is the complete lack of parenting by a large percentage of american parents.



Why would they parent their children? There is no consequence to poor parenting, besides, the government has taken the role of parent.



> You want kids to question rulers correct?  Thats fine, but the minute somone questions or says something negative about the US you are the first to cry out thats anti american.



Izzatrite?



> Well take a look from my aspect.  If I have a teacher spouting off about how great the us is then I am going to the school board right now COMPLAINING about indoctrination.
> __________________



What if you have a teacher that is using Zinn as a text for rewriting history in a more progressive manner? Should the student shut up, or challenge the open distortion and propaganda involved?


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell does winning the race have to do with what I said? I'm talking about effort in comparing teaching situations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You brought up race car drivers, sparky. I urge you to tell them they didn't win - they didn't do that, someone (Obama) else did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps your approach explains a great deal as to why logic classes should be manditory for posters.
> 
> You just blew off my legitimate anology with more hot air than has been assalting the Midwest over the last few months.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I refuted your poorly chosen analogy in simile. (It means, "in the same line of reasoning.")
> 
> 
> 
> Work harder in what way? As jailers? Trying to keep peace in the inmates who have no interest in education?
> 
> One may question compulsory education in that case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of discussing what I said you bring in Obama. What the hell does he have to do with what I was trying to explain?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm urging you to tell race car drivers up at the podium that they didn't win the race. It's Obama's line, but you can borrow it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My approach? What approach. I was explaining real world situations.
> You have no idea where, what, or how I taught. My approach isn't involved in the examples I used.
> Debate the theory I proposed. I hear enough political crap from the ads on TV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fact is that public schools are a failure, and the providing parents CHOICE in education is the only rational approach. Those who oppose choice are driven by knowledge that public schools are inferior and will NOT be chosen by the majority of parents.
Click to expand...




Your generalization of 'public schools are failures' is not valid.

When compared (which is a favorite slanted ploy) with other nations, when the special ed and all others that don't do well are excluded from test taking and tracked in vocational directions U.S. schools do quite well.

Our system is not like other nations' systems.

The drivers on the podium know they won, but the "drivers" that finished in the back of the pack could have possibly put more effort into finishing somewhere toward the back and are catching all the grief for not doing anything to succeed. There is a lot more factors they can't control...but they are blamed by the uninformed.


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> Your generalization of 'public schools are failures' is not valid.



In that case, they will do just fine in a competitive environment. The public schools can explain how they offer excellence in education and won't lose any students to parochial or other private schools.



> When compared (which is a favorite slanted ploy) with other nations, when the special ed and all others that don't do well are excluded from test taking and tracked in vocational directions U.S. schools do quite well.



Ah, a straw man, how clever.

Of course, special ed has never been part of the scores used to determine academic competency. You're just blowing smoke in hopes of obscuring the facts.



> Our system is not like other nations' systems.



Actually, ours is modeled on the Prussian system of the 19th century and is pretty well an exact duplicate. Most post-Soviet nations have abandoned the Prussian model, but not American educrats.



> The drivers on the podium know they won, but the "drivers" that finished in the back of the pack could have possibly put more effort into finishing somewhere toward the back and are catching all the grief for not doing anything to succeed.



Ah yes, OBE - effort is more important than performance. 

Of course this is idiocy, the incompetent may expend more effort than the master builder, but that will be scant comfort when the roof crashes in about you. 



> There is a lot more factors they can't control...but they are blamed by the uninformed.



They are blamed when they engage in idiocy like OBE and other fad methods that continually render poor results.


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your generalization of 'public schools are failures' is not valid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, they will do just fine in a competitive environment. The public schools can explain how they offer excellence in education and won't lose any students to parochial or other private schools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When compared (which is a favorite slanted ploy) with other nations, when the special ed and all others that don't do well are excluded from test taking and tracked in vocational directions U.S. schools do quite well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, a straw man, how clever.
> 
> Of course, special ed has never been part of the scores used to determine academic competency. You're just blowing smoke in hopes of obscuring the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, ours is modeled on the Prussian system of the 19th century and is pretty well an exact duplicate. Most post-Soviet nations have abandoned the Prussian model, but not American educrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The drivers on the podium know they won, but the "drivers" that finished in the back of the pack could have possibly put more effort into finishing somewhere toward the back and are catching all the grief for not doing anything to succeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah yes, OBE - effort is more important than performance.
> 
> Of course this is idiocy, the incompetent may expend more effort than the master builder, but that will be scant comfort when the roof crashes in about you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a lot more factors they can't control...but they are blamed by the uninformed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are blamed when they engage in idiocy like OBE and other fad methods that continually render poor results.
Click to expand...


Blimpo is right on the money.

You don't know shit from shinola and everyone that is not as ignorant as you knows it.

Quit making an ass of yourself.


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> Blimpo is right on the money.
> 
> You don't know shit from shinola and everyone that is not as ignorant as you knows it.
> 
> Quit making an ass of yourself.



What a compelling argument you make.. 

So, they use OBE at your Jr. High, don't they?


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blimpo is right on the money.
> 
> You don't know shit from shinola and everyone that is not as ignorant as you knows it.
> 
> Quit making an ass of yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a compelling argument you make..
> 
> So, they use OBE at your Jr. High, don't they?
Click to expand...


OBE has nothing to do with the fact that you could not distiguish a grapheme from a phoneme


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> OBE has nothing to do with the fact that you could not distiguish a grapheme from a phoneme



Oh come now, this is about you protecting your little union, and there is NO WAY you can compete on a level playing field. Competition is the end of the fat cat educrats.


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> OBE has nothing to do with the fact that you could not distiguish a grapheme from a phoneme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come now, this is about you protecting your little union, and there is NO WAY you can compete on a level playing field. Competition is the end of the fat cat educrats.
Click to expand...


what union?

I'm in a right to work stste.

BTW, you would be no competition for me.


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> what union?
> 
> I'm in a right to work stste.
> 
> BTW, you would be no competition for me.



You turn to ad hominem attack because you cannot defend the prohibition of educational choice. Your only choice is to engage in logical fallacy in hopes of focusing the discussion on me, personally.

I have no problem taking you on in that regard: I'm clearly better educated and smarter than you - but that has zero bearing on the efficacy of educational choice.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Come on, Uncensored, you are the queen of ad hom on the board, second only to your king, Mr. Nick.


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> what union?
> 
> I'm in a right to work stste.
> 
> BTW, you would be no competition for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You turn to ad hominem attack because you cannot defend the prohibition of educational choice. Your only choice is to engage in logical fallacy in hopes of focusing the discussion on me, personally.
> 
> I have no problem taking you on in that regard: I'm clearly better educated and smarter than you - but that has zero bearing on the efficacy of educational choice.
Click to expand...




what are your qualifications to teach in any school much less  have an informed opinion on what happens in one?


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Come on, Uncensored, you are the queen of ad hom on the board, second only to your king, Mr. Nick.



I'll keep that in mind, fakey.


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> what are your qualifications to teach in any school much less  have an informed opinion on what happens in one?



What relevance does the educational instruction credentials of someone you met on the internet have to do with the viability of educational choice in America?

You seem bitterly confused by the subject.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Uncensored says he has taught in night school at community school.  Mebbe so.  But that does not make him acceptable as a critic on public education issues.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Uncensored just blew himself up as a critic of anything.

You need to think before you write.



Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> what are your qualifications to teach in any school much less  have an informed opinion on what happens in one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What relevance does the educational instruction credentials of someone you met on the internet have to do with the viability of educational choice in America?
> 
> You seem bitterly confused by the subject.
Click to expand...


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored says he has taught in night school at community school.  Mebbe so.  But that does not make him acceptable as a critic on public education issues.



You have a hard time keeping simple facts straight.

Of course then, you can't keep it straight that you're a far left demagoguecrat, and not a Republican....


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, Uncensored, you are the queen of ad hom on the board, second only to your king, Mr. Nick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll keep that in mind, fakey.
Click to expand...


gotta love it

Jerky and Cankersore going at it


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Uncensored just blew himself up as a critic of anything.
> 
> You need to think before you write.



ROFL

Hitting the bottle pretty heavy today, eh fakey?


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> gotta love it
> 
> Jerky and Cankersore going at it





I would have figured you and the fraud for best buds....


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> what are your qualifications to teach in any school much less  have an informed opinion on what happens in one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What relevance does the educational instruction credentials of someone you met on the internet have to do with the viability of educational choice in America?
> 
> You seem bitterly confused by the subject.
Click to expand...


you seem unable to read and comprehend Blimpo's posts 

that's all anyone needs to know.


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> you seem unable to read and comprehend Blimpo's posts
> 
> that's all anyone needs to know.



I understand that you can't defend your position. Opposition to educational choice is indefensible. Those like you, flaccidly spewing nonsense, do so to protect the positions of public employees without regard to the detriment to the students involved.


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> you seem unable to read and comprehend Blimpo's posts
> 
> that's all anyone needs to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you can't defend your position. Opposition to educational choice is indefensible. Those like you, flaccidly spewing nonsense, do so to protect the positions of public employees without regard to the detriment to the students involved.
Click to expand...



I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know. You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans. 

the difference between us is that we have  seen the elephant and recognize it for what it is. We  have informed opinions and don't recite G.G. Liddy garbage from rote.

People can send their little angels to private schools as far as I'm concerned. but when they get to private school they are not necessarily getting the best teachers. 
What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage. 


There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know.



Son, this thread is an attack on the use of vouchers to provide educational choice in Louisianan schools. Further, your buddy, whom you decided to pinch hit for, was directly attacking educational choice.



> You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans.



No, what I observe is that you fear competition and fight to keep a government supported monopoly. I also agree with you, that you're right to fear. If choice is offered to parents, you will not be the choice.

You're like AT&T in the 80's - once choice was available, they were doomed. Paying $4 a minute to talk to the next state didn't appeal to customers who could pay pennies on the dollar by switching to Sprint or Alltel.

You offer an extremely expensive product of marginal quality. You know it, and you know that the moment people have a choice, the whole thing is over.



> the difference between us is that we have  seen the elephant and recognize it for what it is. We  have informed opinions and don't recite G.G. Liddy garbage from rote.



Liddy?

Is it 1975?



> People can send their little angels to private schools as far as I'm concerned.



Sure, as long as they continue to pay for public school as well as private.

It's as if McDonalds proclaimed "We don't mind if people go to Taco Bell, but they have to PAY for a Big Mac along with that burrito."



> but when they get to private school they are not necessarily getting the best teachers.



Then they have the option of taking their educational dollars elsewhere.



> What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage.



The bell curve works from top to bottom, not left to right, hence the name. The concept is that the sample group widens as performance declines, with several dramatic points, ergo a plot in the shape of a bell.









> There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.



Then you have nothing to worry about. Oh, and I agree, special ed will probably be the domain of public schools for the foreseeable future.

BTW, what Fakey Jake was bumbling to say is that I do teach. I am a working professional who teaches a 300 level economics class for the largest private University system in the nation.


----------



## JakeStarkey

I see you project as much as Uncensored.

Two fools dueling. . . 



squeeze berry said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> what are your qualifications to teach in any school much less  have an informed opinion on what happens in one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What relevance does the educational instruction credentials of someone you met on the internet have to do with the viability of educational choice in America?
> 
> You seem bitterly confused by the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you seem unable to read and comprehend Blimpo's posts
> 
> that's all anyone needs to know.
Click to expand...


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Son, this thread is an attack on the use of vouchers to provide educational choice in Louisianan schools. Further, your buddy, whom you decided to pinch hit for, was directly attacking educational choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, what I observe is that you fear competition and fight to keep a government supported monopoly. I also agree with you, that you're right to fear. If choice is offered to parents, you will not be the choice.
> 
> You're like AT&T in the 80's - once choice was available, they were doomed. Paying $4 a minute to talk to the next state didn't appeal to customers who could pay pennies on the dollar by switching to Sprint or Alltel.
> 
> You offer an extremely expensive product of marginal quality. You know it, and you know that the moment people have a choice, the whole thing is over.
> 
> 
> 
> Liddy?
> 
> Is it 1975?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, as long as they continue to pay for public school as well as private.
> 
> It's as if McDonalds proclaimed "We don't mind if people go to Taco Bell, but they have to PAY for a Big Mac along with that burrito."
> 
> 
> 
> Then they have the option of taking their educational dollars elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *The bell curve works from top to bottom, not left to right,* hence the name. The concept is that the sample group widens as performance declines, with several dramatic points, ergo a plot in the shape of a bell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then you have nothing to worry about. Oh, and I agree, special ed will probably be the domain of public schools for the foreseeable future.
> 
> BTW, what Fakey Jake was bumbling to say is that I do teach. I am a working professional who teaches a 300 level economics class for the largest private University system in the nation.
Click to expand...


stating that a bell curve works from top to bottom proves that you are at the left side of the bell curve


----------



## JakeStarkey

Strange folks the both of you.  Oh, anyone with a brain could teach econ.  Teaching spec ed is something else.  You might be a dork, otherwise, but hats off to you for that.


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is the temperature on Mars?
> 
> Is the equipment functional?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess that you collect a government paycheck.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I taught at one time and I'm flabergasted at all the misinformation out there about what goes on in a classroom on a day to day basis.
> 
> if you haven't been there you have no idea...
Click to expand...

Oh? Which misinformation is THAT?
In my family there are over 35 years of public education experience. As students and as volunteers. 
So don't go thinking that we do not know just because we do not posses a teaching certificate.
Public education fails for two main reasons. 
One, lack of parental input/involvement/guidance.
Two, out of touch educrats who are more interested in justifying their sometimes unnecessary paychecks.
Notice how no blame is in my post regarding teachers.
Now, I do have a 100 objection to unionized teachers who claim to be there for the kids but when the taxpayers who have spoken loudly about out of control wages and benefits packages with little additional apparent value, these very same unionized teachers suddenly forget the kids and and protest about how tough it is to make a living. Bullshit.
In most states where teachers have unions and tenure to protect them, it is almost impossible to fire them and even if they are fired, the taxpayers are STILL stuck paying these people for as long as they live. 
Now what kind of shit is THAT?
Each year, more states see increasing numbers of school districts with falling percentages of graduating seniors. People are generally results oriented. And people are tired of hearing the "horse to water" analogy excuse from teacher's unions and other teacher's organizations.
Eventually teachers are going to be held to pay for performance. Whether that is fair or not is a question that may never be answered. 
I think the teachers must be held accountable for the performance of their students, but not to the point where one size fits all.


----------



## squeeze berry

teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^


gotcha  

35 years as students and volunteers? 

but not one lesson planned or delivered


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> stating that a bell curve works from top to bottom proves that you are at the left side of the bell curve



In all fairness, I have to post that you are correct and I was wrong on the plot pattern of this chart.


----------



## JakeStarkey

So says demagogue boy.

Your econ class must not be given learner surveys, or you have suppressed or altered them, if you are still teaching.



Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored says he has taught in night school at community school.  Mebbe so.  But that does not make him acceptable as a critic on public education issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a hard time keeping simple facts straight.
> 
> Of course then, you can't keep it straight that you're a far left demagoguecrat, and not a Republican....
Click to expand...


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> So says demagogue boy.
> 
> Your econ class must not be given learner surveys, or you have suppressed or altered them, if you are still teaching.



Aren't you supposed to be out stumping for Obama, fakey? Maybe telling lies about Paul Ryan?


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^
> 
> 
> gotcha
> 
> 35 years as students and volunteers?
> 
> but not one lesson planned or delivered


Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
"We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> you seem unable to read and comprehend Blimpo's posts
> 
> that's all anyone needs to know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you can't defend your position. Opposition to educational choice is indefensible. Those like you, flaccidly spewing nonsense, do so to protect the positions of public employees without regard to the detriment to the students involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know. You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans.
> 
> the difference between us is that we have  seen the elephant and recognize it for what it is. We  have informed opinions and don't recite G.G. Liddy garbage from rote.
> 
> People can send their little angels to private schools as far as I'm concerned. but when they get to private school they are not necessarily getting the best teachers.
> What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage.
> 
> 
> There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.
Click to expand...

Private schools do not "avoid" anything. Those schools have the freedom to accept those students which they believe would meet their standards. And of course who's parents have the means to afford the tuition. 
Many private schools offer scholarships to bright and/or talented students who otherwise would not due to financial issues be able to attend.
THe far left end of the bell curve? Please explain.
"Element"...Please clarify in detail. 
"Not necessarily getting the best teachers.".....I have heard/read this nonsense before. It comes from teacher's union reps, unionized teachers and pro labor politicians.
The union mantra that has been part of the narrative. That narrative is that only those who are members of unions can provide skilled workers. 
 92% of US workers say different.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that you can't defend your position. Opposition to educational choice is indefensible. Those like you, flaccidly spewing nonsense, do so to protect the positions of public employees without regard to the detriment to the students involved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know. You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans.
> 
> the difference between us is that we have  seen the elephant and recognize it for what it is. We  have informed opinions and don't recite G.G. Liddy garbage from rote.
> 
> People can send their little angels to private schools as far as I'm concerned. but when they get to private school they are not necessarily getting the best teachers.
> What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage.
> 
> 
> There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Private schools do not "avoid" anything. Those schools have the freedom to accept those students which they believe would meet their standards. And of course who's parents have the means to afford the tuition.
> Many private schools offer scholarships to bright and/or talented students who otherwise would not due to financial issues be able to attend.
> THe far left end of the bell curve? Please explain.
> "Element"...Please clarify in detail.
> "Not necessarily getting the best teachers.".....I have heard/read this nonsense before. It comes from teacher's union reps, unionized teachers and pro labor politicians.
> The union mantra that has been part of the narrative. That narrative is that only those who are members of unions can provide skilled workers.
> 92% of US workers say different.
Click to expand...


Do private schools, excepting reform schools, accept the criminal element?
Hell no
Do you understand that there are no special education services in private schools? Huh?

Public school teachers are required to jump through qualification hoop after qualification hoop. 

As a sped teacher I'm required to have a MEd at the very least as well as several endorsements and HQT in several areas.

If you think it's so easy, you should be the one doing it.

PS I have never talked to a union rep


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^
> 
> 
> gotcha
> 
> 35 years as students and volunteers?
> 
> but not one lesson planned or delivered
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
> Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
> Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
> The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
> Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
> "We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".
Click to expand...


the horse to water argument is not a union rep statement. They are more politically correct believe it or not.

It's the people in the trenches that have to deal with students that simply are not motivated to do the work, are disruptive and cannot grasp concepts.

what do you expect?

the teacher to do the work for the kid?

No amount of accounability and browbeating a teacher will turn a kid into a competent student.

You do understand that, right?


----------



## blimpo

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^
> 
> 
> gotcha
> 
> 35 years as students and volunteers?
> 
> but not one lesson planned or delivered
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
> Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
> Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
> The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
> Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
> "We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".
Click to expand...




Man, that's a great little inspiring paragraph.

Instead of trying- I should do.  "Ok students. Instead of trying to do the work we are going to do the work. Everyone be busy. That's nice."

That's so simple, why didn't I think of that...


----------



## JakeStarkey

What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.

Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.

Happy days are here again.



Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says demagogue boy.
> 
> Your econ class must not be given learner surveys, or you have suppressed or altered them, if you are still teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't you supposed to be out stumping for Obama, fakey? Maybe telling lies about Paul Ryan?
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not opposed to educational choice at all and neither is any educator that posts at USMB as far as I know. You just ASSume that since we are public school teachers we are radical left-wing union members. A number of us are right of center republicans.
> 
> the difference between us is that we have  seen the elephant and recognize it for what it is. We  have informed opinions and don't recite G.G. Liddy garbage from rote.
> 
> People can send their little angels to private schools as far as I'm concerned. but when they get to private school they are not necessarily getting the best teachers.
> What private schools avoid is the far left end of the bell curve students and parents as well as the "element". Private schools have that advantage.
> 
> 
> There will always be public schools for one reason or another. I'm a special ed teacher. I'll always be employed. We don't grow on trees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Private schools do not "avoid" anything. Those schools have the freedom to accept those students which they believe would meet their standards. And of course who's parents have the means to afford the tuition.
> Many private schools offer scholarships to bright and/or talented students who otherwise would not due to financial issues be able to attend.
> THe far left end of the bell curve? Please explain.
> "Element"...Please clarify in detail.
> "Not necessarily getting the best teachers.".....I have heard/read this nonsense before. It comes from teacher's union reps, unionized teachers and pro labor politicians.
> The union mantra that has been part of the narrative. That narrative is that only those who are members of unions can provide skilled workers.
> 92% of US workers say different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do private schools, excepting reform schools, accept the criminal element?
> Hell no
> Do you understand that there are no special education services in private schools? Huh?
> 
> Public school teachers are required to jump through qualification hoop after qualification hoop.
> 
> As a sped teacher I'm required to have a MEd at the very least as well as several endorsements and HQT in several areas.
> 
> If you think it's so easy, you should be the one doing it.
> 
> PS I have never talked to a union rep
Click to expand...


No..That's the point. Private schools offer exceptional educational opportunities. Why on earth would a private school admin invite an applicant with a criminal history and thus a propensity to commit MORE crime? Don't be ridiculous.
What do "special ed services" have to do with anything?
Qualification hoops? So what? Nature of the beast. Do you not think it possible that private schools screen their candidates just as if not more tightly? After all, the parents of the students are spending their hard earned money to have their kids attend. Surely you must realize that one slip up on the part of the school's hiring manager could result in a mass exodus of students. To imply that private schools do not fully vet their teachers is just ludicrous and smacks of envy.
I never stated nor implied teaching was "easy"..
This is the problem with you people. At any question or challenge you circle the wagons and accuse the person doing the questioning of impugning the teaching profession.
Last question...Why do you find it necessary to offer up your resume ? It's impertinent to the discussion. 
You have never talked to a union rep...Ok. So what. Most union members never have a need to do so. Your point in stating that is...?


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^
> 
> 
> gotcha
> 
> 35 years as students and volunteers?
> 
> but not one lesson planned or delivered
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
> Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
> Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
> The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
> Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
> "We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the horse to water argument is not a union rep statement. They are more politically correct believe it or not.
> 
> It's the people in the trenches that have to deal with students that simply are not motivated to do the work, are disruptive and cannot grasp concepts.
> 
> what do you expect?
> 
> the teacher to do the work for the kid?
> 
> No amount of accounability and browbeating a teacher will turn a kid into a competent student.
> 
> You do understand that, right?
Click to expand...


Demanding results instead of the past where we taxpayers were expected to accept excuses is not browbeating. It's a change in the mindset which is going to force a change in the public school business model. 
We taxpayers do not expect miracles. We expect accountability.
I agree there are kids who go to school with ZERO motivation to be there. These are kids that teachers unfortunately must endure. What's more it is the administrations which are perhaps the biggest culprits in the failure of public schools which tie the hands of classroom discipline.
The rules, regulations, threats of copious and frivolous law suits from parents, all the BS combined with political correctness and idiotic laws such as NC's "Sound and basic education" law. This law has essentially taken the weapon of expulsion away. For example, in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools, kids convicted of crimes cannot be expelled. Even if the student has assaulted or committed another felony to a faculty member.
The parents complain to the school board and their local school admin about "predatory students". The reply is always the same.."Our hands are tied by the state".
So please, don't tell me I think teaching is easy BUT...teachers must have some kind of scrutiny over their performance and the performance of their students.


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^
> 
> 
> gotcha
> 
> 35 years as students and volunteers?
> 
> but not one lesson planned or delivered
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
> Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
> Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
> The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
> Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
> "We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, that's a great little inspiring paragraph.
> 
> Instead of trying- I should do.  "Ok students. Instead of trying to do the work we are going to do the work. Everyone be busy. That's nice."
> 
> That's so simple, why didn't I think of that...
Click to expand...


Correct. In all aspects of life we are expected to accomplish our assigned tasks. Try to accomplish doesn't cut it.
If a doctor tells his patient after the appendectomy that "he tried to remove the organ but didn't quite get there, what happens? Or if I tell my employer " I tired real hard to do the task I was assigned" guess what? I get to go find another form of employment.
Look, school is not just about academics and extracurricular activities. It's about preparing children for life as adults. Preparing them for disappointment and reality. Perhaps you should not be so snarky when presented with the realities of the facts.


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> teachers to be held accountable but not students and parents ^
> 
> 
> gotcha
> 
> 35 years as students and volunteers?
> 
> but not one lesson planned or delivered
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter. We are well versed on how the process works. Especially in light of the fact that since we became homeowners 15 years ago, we think it is our job to keep the fire lit under the asses of the school board as well as the administration and faculty of this county's school district. They are spending OUR money.
> Based on that fact, yes by all means we demand accountability on the part of the very people who are with our kids and spending our money. We want results. We demand return on our investment.
> Oh, I never intended to imply there is no accountability on the part of the parents/guardians and students. Quite the contrary. I have stated in the past and as a matter of fact in this thread that parental involvement in their child's education or lack of it, is a main reason for success or failure.
> The " horse to water" excuse used by mainly teacher's union reps and many teachers themselves does not wash any longer. As previously stated, taxpayers are now demanding results. They are tired of having more of their earnings confiscated based on the cries of school boards and administrations with their tired mantra of "if we just had this next budget( tax) increase, we could improve (fill in the blank)...Guess what? It never happens.
> Tell me, would you keep pouring your hard earned money into something with little or no return on investment or few positive results?
> "We're trying" doesn't cut it any longer. There is no "try". There is only "do".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, that's a great little inspiring paragraph.
> 
> Instead of trying- I should do.  "Ok students. Instead of trying to do the work we are going to do the work. Everyone be busy. That's nice."
> 
> That's so simple, why didn't I think of that...
Click to expand...

It was not meant to be inspiring. What makes you think you should always be inspired? 
Have you been raised to believe there is no such thing as disappointment?


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.
> 
> Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.
> 
> Happy days are here again.
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> So says demagogue boy.
> 
> Your econ class must not be given learner surveys, or you have suppressed or altered them, if you are still teaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't you supposed to be out stumping for Obama, fakey? Maybe telling lies about Paul Ryan?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..


----------



## Uncensored2008

thereisnospoon said:


> Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..



Fakey Jake believes that government on every level should be run exclusively for the benefit of unionized government employees. 

Just as Obama does.


----------



## JakeStarkey

4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.
> 
> Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.
> 
> Happy days are here again.
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't you supposed to be out stumping for Obama, fakey? Maybe telling lies about Paul Ryan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..
Click to expand...


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> 4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.



Fakey you fraud you, you're mentally retarded.


----------



## squeeze berry

Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fakey you fraud you, you're mentally retarded.
Click to expand...


hey, I teach mentally retarded students. 

you are insulting my students


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> 4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> What amazes me is that we are going to win with Romney with all of you scabs hanging onto the campaign.
> 
> Once Romney wins, you losers are gone.
> 
> Happy days are here again.
> 
> 
> 
> Scabs? Yes 92% of us are "scabs"....For Christ's sake, get out of the 50's..
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Right. Unions, like the South, will rise again!
Ahh Boy!


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4% of you are scabs, not mainstream, and you are gone, gone, gone after the election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fakey you fraud you, you're mentally retarded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey, I teach mentally retarded students.
> 
> you are insulting my students
Click to expand...


No...You perpetually offended nattering nabob, if he had stated "YOUR" students are retarded, you might have a case.


----------



## blimpo

thereisnospoon said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. In all aspects of life we are expected to accomplish our assigned tasks. Try to accomplish doesn't cut it.
> If a doctor tells his patient after the appendectomy that "he tried to remove the organ but didn't quite get there, what happens? Or if I tell my employer " I tired real hard to do the task I was assigned" guess what? I get to go find another form of employment.
> Look, school is not just about academics and extracurricular activities. It's about preparing children for life as adults. Preparing them for disappointment and reality. Perhaps you should not be so snarky when presented with the realities of the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer to your first question is the patient is sent the bill.
> 
> Answer to the second question is in a doubt an employer would assign a task and expect perfection where there are multiple factors his employee can't control.
> 
> My inspiring post was sarcastic. The old "just do it" or "git'er done" looks great on paper, but it isn't that simple in the real world.
> 
> If you want to use the thought of factories- If a company keeps getting inferior raw material from different sources, they stop using those sources and look elsewhere. That is the advantage of  private schools.
> 
> Being forced to take anything that walks through the door and demanding success is admirable but totally unrealistic.
> If we recruited them, well, that's a different matter.
> 
> Jesus didn't convert all he talked to, but teachers are supposed to be held to a higher standard than that?
> 
> If you spend many days in a jr. high classroom you soon see the gap between "just do it" and reality. Believe me, it's a big one.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Answer to your first question is the patient is sent the bill.
> 
> Answer to the second question is in a doubt an employer would assign a task and expect perfection where there are multiple factors his employee can't control.
> 
> My inspiring post was sarcastic. The old "just do it" or "git'er done" looks great on paper, but it isn't that simple in the real world.
> 
> If you want to use the thought of factories- If a company keeps getting inferior raw material from different sources, they stop using those sources and look elsewhere. That is the advantage of  private schools.
> 
> Being forced to take anything that walks through the door and demanding success is admirable but totally unrealistic.
> If we recruited them, well, that's a different matter.
> 
> Jesus didn't convert all he talked to, but teachers are supposed to be held to a higher standard than that?
> 
> If you spend many days in a jr. high classroom you soon see the gap between "just do it" and reality. Believe me, it's a big one.
> 
> 
> 
> No one expects perfection. I used those examples in the hopes you and others here who seem to have this defeatist attitude, would realize that in the real world most workers have to perform and get results. Otherwise they are looking for employment elsewhere.
> On the other hand, public school employees are employed by the public. Which means they are accountable to the taxpayers. These are the people who are tired of paying more while being promised improvements but are not getting the "bang for their buck"..They are now demanding answers. And demanding more accountability. That is the business moving forward. That is the way it is. Those are the conditions under one who wishes to work with the public must abide. If not, they are free to pursue other endeavors.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## blimpo

thereisnospoon said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one expects perfection. I used those examples in the hopes you and others here who seem to have this defeatist attitude, would realize that in the real world most workers have to perform and get results. Otherwise they are looking for employment elsewhere.
> On the other hand, public school employees are employed by the public. Which means they are accountable to the taxpayers. These are the people who are tired of paying more while being promised improvements but are not getting the "bang for their buck"..They are now demanding answers. And demanding more accountability. That is the business moving forward. That is the way it is. Those are the conditions under one who wishes to work with the public must abide. If not, they are free to pursue other endeavors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am pursuing other endeavors. I feel for the friends I have that work really hard teaching.
> 
> Unfortunately, many of them are scouting around for something else to do. The turnover rate is going to be a future concern, count on it.
> 
> My answer to this future problem is...duh.
> 
> Having taught for many years, it pains me to try my best to steer former students away from a career in education...but I do.
> 
> Some of those same taxpayers that are demanding results are probably some of the same people that send rude, self-centered, materialistic kids to school every day.
> 
> If I was a parent of some of these kids I'd be ashamed to let them out in public. Each year we see more and more kids that aren't ready for prime time.
> 
> You can't make chicken soup from chicken poop- is an old line I learned long ago. It still holds true except when it comes to education.
> 
> As Andy Rooney said years ago, we are raising some really dumb kids.
> Video games, cell phones, texting, raging hormones, poor parenting might be lame excuses to some; but you still are going to have horses that won't drink. I think the things I've mentioned may be a big reason why they aren't "thirsty".
> 
> I feel blessed to be away from it all.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Barb

the most offensive:



> 3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994





> 4. Africa needs religion: "Africa is a continent with many needs. It is still in need of the gospel





> 5. Slave masters were nice guys: [...]United States History for Christian Schools, 2nd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 1991





> 6. The KKK was A-OK: "[The Ku Klux] Klan in some areas of the country tried to be a means of reform, fighting the decline in morality and using the symbol of the cross. Klan targets were bootleggers, wife-beaters, and immoral movies. In some communities it achieved a certain respectability as it worked with politicians."United States History for Christian Schools, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2001





> 7. The Great Depression wasn't as bad as the liberals made it sound:





> 8. SCOTUS enslaved fetuses: "Ignoring 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian civilization, religion, morality, and law, the Burger Court held that an unborn child was not a living person but rather the "property" of the mother (much like slaves were considered property in the 1857 case of Dred Scott v. Sandford)."American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed., A Beka Book, 1997
> 
> 9. The Red Scare isn't over yet: "It is no wonder that Satan hates the family and has hurled his venom against it in the form of Communism." American Government in Christian Perspective, 2nd ed., A Beka Book, 1997





> 10. Mark Twain and Emily Dickinson were a couple of hacks:





> 12. Gay people "have no more claims to special rights than child molesters or rapists."Teacher's Resource Guide to Current Events for Christian Schools, 1998-1999, Bob Jones University Press, 1998


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one expects perfection. I used those examples in the hopes you and others here who seem to have this defeatist attitude, would realize that in the real world most workers have to perform and get results. Otherwise they are looking for employment elsewhere.
> On the other hand, public school employees are employed by the public. Which means they are accountable to the taxpayers. These are the people who are tired of paying more while being promised improvements but are not getting the "bang for their buck"..They are now demanding answers. And demanding more accountability. That is the business moving forward. That is the way it is. Those are the conditions under one who wishes to work with the public must abide. If not, they are free to pursue other endeavors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no one, including you, could possibly live up to those standards
> 
> BTW, I have worked in the "real world" for many years. Teaching is a different kettle of fish and it's more difficult.
> 
> But I'm certain that none of anyone else says will make a difference to you. You are a know-it-all.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am pursuing other endeavors. I feel for the friends I have that work really hard teaching.
> 
> Unfortunately, many of them are scouting around for something else to do. The turnover rate is going to be a future concern, count on it.
> 
> My answer to this future problem is...duh.
> 
> Having taught for many years, it pains me to try my best to steer former students away from a career in education...but I do.
> 
> Some of those same taxpayers that are demanding results are probably some of the same people that send rude, self-centered, materialistic kids to school every day.
> 
> If I was a parent of some of these kids I'd be ashamed to let them out in public. Each year we see more and more kids that aren't ready for prime time.
> 
> You can't make chicken soup from chicken poop- is an old line I learned long ago. It still holds true except when it comes to education.
> 
> As Andy Rooney said years ago, we are raising some really dumb kids.
> Video games, cell phones, texting, raging hormones, poor parenting might be lame excuses to some; but you still are going to have horses that won't drink. I think the things I've mentioned may be a big reason why they aren't "thirsty".
> 
> I feel blessed to be away from it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes "some" kids are not ready for prime time and I blame "self esteem" and I blame "helicopter parents"...Most of these kids come from upper middle class families who can't quite get to the level of private school finances. These are the kids who are told by their parents that they are the greatest thing on the planet. The parents do everything in their power to prevent their kid from ever experiencing disappointment. That includes ripping into the school principal because the math teacher had the gall to give their little cupcake a "C".
> Yes, I realize there are kids who are just pure evil.
> That however is not the thrust of my point.
> I am referring to the everyday working stiff parents that are being fleeced by greedy politicians.Fleeced in the form of property taxes to pay for the schools.  Invariably, no one wants to be accountable for when those schools do not perform.  And of course no one wants to step forward and explain why the school needs even more money.
> Please, I have three friends that are teachers. They have a tough job, but please do not give the impression that teachers in general are somehow above the fray. As though they are not part of the failing system. They are.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes "some" kids are not ready for prime time and I blame "self esteem" and I blame "helicopter parents"...Most of these kids come from upper middle class families who can't quite get to the level of private school finances. These are the kids who are told by their parents that they are the greatest thing on the planet. The parents do everything in their power to prevent their kid from ever experiencing disappointment. That includes ripping into the school principal because the math teacher had the gall to give their little cupcake a "C".
> Yes, I realize there are kids who are just pure evil.
> That however is not the thrust of my point.
> I am referring to the everyday working stiff parents that are being fleeced by greedy politicians.Fleeced in the form of property taxes to pay for the schools.  Invariably, no one wants to be accountable for when those schools do not perform.  And of course no one wants to step forward and explain why the school needs even more money.
> Please, I have three friends that are teachers. They have a tough job, *but please do not give the impression that teachers in general are somehow above the fray. As though **they are not part of the failing system. They are*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all schools are failures and all teachers are failures too?
> 
> You are not part of the failing system?
> 
> You sound as if you believe you are above the fray
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.


----------



## tjvh

JakeStarkey said:


> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.



I think you summed it up nicely.


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.



That's not what the California Teachers Association keeps saying. They claim success is entirely dependent on how much taxpayer money goes to the union.

Unfunded pension liabilities directly lead to poor test scores.


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what the California Teachers Association keeps saying. They claim success is entirely dependent on how much taxpayer money goes to the union.
> 
> Unfunded pension liabilities directly lead to poor test scores.
Click to expand...




Well, they're wrong.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Link, Uncensored.

We cannot trust you to tell the truth.

Give us a direct, unadulterated link that says the CTA claims "success is entirely dependent on" taxpayer money and the amount spent.



Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what the California Teachers Association keeps saying. They claim success is entirely dependent on how much taxpayer money goes to the union.
> 
> Unfunded pension liabilities directly lead to poor test scores.
Click to expand...


----------



## DGS49

There can be no doubt that most teachers are competent, but there are three or four factors that prevent the taxpayers from seeing the value for which they pay:

(1) it is impossible to get rid of a bad teacher.  The teachers' unions have effectively won the argument by claiming that no teacher can be held accountable for the learning of their students because of other factors over which they have no control.  While this is generally true, it is also true that if the teachers themselves participated in developing useful and efficacious measuring methods, the worst teachers could be identified and let go.  It would not take many firings to dramatically improve the system.  It would improve EVERYONE's performance, because they would understand that they are no longer untouchable.

(2)  Effective student discipline is almost impossible.  The kids know they cannot be touched, the administrators have become extremely risk-averse, and teachers in many systems work in fear every day.  Chicago has had over 4,000 assaults of teachers in the past five years.  Nobody can learn in an uncontrolled classroom.  Our beloved president has launched a new initiative that will pursue and punish any school system which punishes "minorities" in greater proportion than "whites."  This flies in the face of a mountain of evidence indicating that Black students are not disciplined enough - not the other way around.  My (Catholic) high school had a "Prefect of Discipline," whose only job was to deal with student misbehavior.  He was one of the football coaches.  He seldom actually struck anyone, but he didn't have to - we knew that if he did our parents would back him 100%.

(3)  Home work cannot be forced.  The failure of some kids to keep up slows down the entire student population.

(4)  Too many parents are stupid and lazy.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Parents.  All of which comes back to the parents.  That's why vouchers mean little if nothing.  Voucher schools only have to take the students they want, while excluding the losers.

Either parents wake up, or we are going to be in super trouble.

As if the far right knuckle draggers have any idea of what is going on.



DGS49 said:


> There can be no doubt that most teachers are competent, but there are three or four factors that prevent the taxpayers from seeing the value for which they pay:
> 
> (1) it is impossible to get rid of a bad teacher.  The teachers' unions have effectively won the argument by claiming that no teacher can be held accountable for the learning of their students because of other factors over which they have no control.  While this is generally true, it is also true that if the teachers themselves participated in developing useful and efficacious measuring methods, the worst teachers could be identified and let go.  It would not take many firings to dramatically improve the system.  It would improve EVERYONE's performance, because they would understand that they are no longer untouchable.
> 
> (2)  Effective student discipline is almost impossible.  The kids know they cannot be touched, the administrators have become extremely risk-averse, and teachers in many systems work in fear every day.  Chicago has had over 4,000 assaults of teachers in the past five years.  Nobody can learn in an uncontrolled classroom.  Our beloved president has launched a new initiative that will pursue and punish any school system which punishes "minorities" in greater proportion than "whites."  This flies in the face of a mountain of evidence indicating that Black students are not disciplined enough - not the other way around.  My (Catholic) high school had a "Prefect of Discipline," whose only job was to deal with student misbehavior.  He was one of the football coaches.  He seldom actually struck anyone, but he didn't have to - we knew that if he did our parents would back him 100%.
> 
> (3)  Home work cannot be forced.  The failure of some kids to keep up slows down the entire student population.
> 
> (4)  Too many parents are stupid and lazy.


----------



## blimpo

DGS49 said:


> There can be no doubt that most teachers are competent, but there are three or four factors that prevent the taxpayers from seeing the value for which they pay:
> 
> (1) it is impossible to get rid of a bad teacher.  The teachers' unions have effectively won the argument by claiming that no teacher can be held accountable for the learning of their students because of other factors over which they have no control.  While this is generally true, it is also true that if the teachers themselves participated in developing useful and efficacious measuring methods, the worst teachers could be identified and let go.  It would not take many firings to dramatically improve the system.  It would improve EVERYONE's performance, because they would understand that they are no longer untouchable.
> 
> (2)  Effective student discipline is almost impossible.  The kids know they cannot be touched, the administrators have become extremely risk-averse, and teachers in many systems work in fear every day.  Chicago has had over 4,000 assaults of teachers in the past five years.  Nobody can learn in an uncontrolled classroom.  Our beloved president has launched a new initiative that will pursue and punish any school system which punishes "minorities" in greater proportion than "whites."  This flies in the face of a mountain of evidence indicating that Black students are not disciplined enough - not the other way around.  My (Catholic) high school had a "Prefect of Discipline," whose only job was to deal with student misbehavior.  He was one of the football coaches.  He seldom actually struck anyone, but he didn't have to - we knew that if he did our parents would back him 100%.
> 
> (3)  Home work cannot be forced.  The failure of some kids to keep up slows down the entire student population.
> 
> (4)  Too many parents are stupid and lazy.




I don't know what the answer is but,

as long as we have "voluntary learning" classrooms it is unfair to evaluate teachers on test scores. The best they can hope for is the disruptions be a minimum and over half are listening.


----------



## Peach

Steelplate said:


> no matter how bad it gets...they defend it...wow.



Lots of Bush voters went to school there it appears.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Barb said:


> the most offensive:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. "God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ."America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Africa needs religion: "Africa is a continent with many needs. It is still in need of the gospel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10. Mark Twain and Emily Dickinson were a couple of hacks:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12. Gay people "have no more claims to special rights than child molesters or rapists."Teacher's Resource Guide to Current Events for Christian Schools, 1998-1999, Bob Jones University Press, 1998
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Hey genius, here a little tip, when you post, try writing something relevant to the discussion for TODAY!

Go back to crocheting or quilting will you please..Or join a morning tea club. Or learn to fly model airplanes. Anything but post here. 
Tell ya what...Here's a wet paper bag. Try to find your way out. I'll spot you the open end.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> no one, including you, could possibly live up to those standards
> 
> BTW, I have worked in the "real world" for many years. Teaching is a different kettle of fish and it's more difficult.
> 
> But I'm certain that none of anyone else says will make a difference to you. You are a know-it-all.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah well get used to it. Living up to those standards is becoming the new norm.
> The taxpayers are tired of hearing excuses as to why with more and more money going to education, the situation has actually regressed.
> I give you the Kansas City School system and the Washington DC school system.
> Both of them shining lights on what NOT to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> all schools are failures and all teachers are failures too?
> 
> You are not part of the failing system?
> 
> You sound as if you believe you are above the fray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I state "all"?
> Stop making up shit as you go.
> You aren't even doing a good job covering your weak position.
> Indirectly all taxpyers are "part of the system".
> However, we give them our money but we don't get a seat at the table where the decisions on how to spend our money are made.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> all schools are failures and all teachers are failures too?
> 
> You are not part of the failing system?
> 
> You sound as if you believe you are above the fray
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever asked yourself why public schools in Western Europe, Korea, and Japan turn out more educated and better prepared for life students than here in the US?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.



Hmmm I'd say it's one third of the problem. One third goes to school boards/administrations, the other third goes on the teachers who do not perform.
Although I believe parental involvement is a part of creating an advantaged educational experience.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah well get used to it. Living up to those standards is becoming the new norm.
> The taxpayers are tired of hearing excuses as to why with more and more money going to education, the situation has actually regressed.
> I give you the Kansas City School system and the Washington DC school system.
> Both of them shining lights on what NOT to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you become a teacher and save our schools?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever asked yourself why public schools in Western Europe, Korea, and Japan turn out more educated and better prepared for life students than here in the US?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because those countries do not have the same demographic challenges you bone head
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Having been a school board president, I can state, at least for our district and region, the major problem of the three are parents who just don't care.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm I'd say it's one third of the problem. One third goes to school boards/administrations, the other third goes on the teachers who do not perform.
> Although I believe parental involvement is a part of creating an advantaged educational experience.
Click to expand...


----------



## Two Thumbs

funny stuff, some of it plain creepy

Like being taought Pop culture, or learning about monsters, or how to cook, or that voting more McCain will cause the war to last 100 years.

yeah, the public edjimukashun is way better.


----------



## Two Thumbs

JakeStarkey said:


> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.



The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.

they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.


----------



## squeeze berry

Two Thumbs said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
Click to expand...


I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is

so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.

thanks for your help


----------



## JakeStarkey

I hope you are sharing your opinions in appropriate manner, dutiful and respectful.

We had one parent say she would "kill a teacher" if said teacher ever restrained her child if he physically acted out.

As school board president, I and the board approved the superintendent's directive that she be arrested and led out in handcuffs in front of the other parents.

She was placed under bond for good behavior, and she did behave herself.



Two Thumbs said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
Click to expand...


----------



## squeeze berry

JakeStarkey said:


> I* hope you are sharing your opinions in appropriate manner, dutiful and respectful.*We had one parent say she would "kill a teacher" if said teacher ever restrained her child if he physically acted out.
> 
> As school board president, I and the board approved the superintendent's directive that she be arrested and led out in handcuffs in front of the other parents.
> 
> She was placed under bond for good behavior, and she did behave herself.
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



 he is probablly not 

I have had some parents that are quite nice. I would do anything they asked.

but there have been others that think that since they are a tax payer and you are working with their child they can treat you like dirt and demand special treatment.


----------



## JakeStarkey

We instructed our teachers to always try to work with parents, but if they instead on playing the fool we would have them escorted off campus with a warning that when they came back they would come back to help not hinder the educational process.

Some of them tried the TPM shout out process in board meetings until they found themselves in jail for the night.

Some parents don't get they are not in charge of the day to day school process.



squeeze berry said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I* hope you are sharing your opinions in appropriate manner, dutiful and respectful.*We had one parent say she would "kill a teacher" if said teacher ever restrained her child if he physically acted out.
> 
> As school board president, I and the board approved the superintendent's directive that she be arrested and led out in handcuffs in front of the other parents.
> 
> She was placed under bond for good behavior, and she did behave herself.
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> he is probablly not
> 
> I have had some parents that are quite nice. I would do anything they asked.
> 
> but there have been others that think that since they are a tax payer and you are working with their child they can treat you like dirt and demand special treatment.
Click to expand...


----------



## blimpo

The parents I needed to talk to never showed up, even after calls to remind them of the open house or conferences.
The ones that showed up, I didn't really need to see them. Their kids were doing fine.

I wonder if there is a message in this.....


----------



## JakeStarkey

Having children should not be a "right".


----------



## BrutalTruth

squeeze berry said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is
> 
> so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.
> 
> thanks for your help
Click to expand...


It's your job as a teacher to provide and set forth a curriculum that both engages and inspires students to learn. School counselors are paid a salary because "supposedly" they have the ability to offset anything that might be deterring a child from learning.

Clearly wasted salaries and tax payers dollars on both accounts. As well, grammar as a teacher is second nature, and a peeve when not performed properly. You are no teacher, but troll?


----------



## JakeStarkey

nah, brutaltroll, you are not in charge here

you walk into our schools with a chip on your shoulder, you will leave with it knocked off

support your schools and teachers, and do you children a favor, hmmm?


----------



## BrutalTruth

JakeStarkey said:


> nah, brutaltroll, you are not in charge here
> 
> you walk into our schools with a chip on your shoulder, you will leave with it knocked off
> 
> support your schools and teachers, and do you children a favor, hmmm?



Lol, I had one teacher, such as yourself, terminated from employment just last year. Fact is, the "our schools" quite frankly just isn't how it works. Perhaps some study into the rapid increase of children being home schooled would be in order for you, and some preparations made into a more "stable" field of employment wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Brutal Troll, you are talking nonsense, and you know it.  If you walked into our schools, you would have toed the line. period.  I was the school board president, not a teacher, and I backed the superintendent and his policies.  His first policy was to back the teachers, particularly against parents, like you, who had not a clue about education.  Our students went to LSU, A&M, USC, Stanford, and Duke.  I am not in the least concerned that you have any idea about what good educational administration or good pedagogy requires.  You don't.

My family members and I own a chain of businesses across the lower south, we are very successful, and we all recognize trolls like you in a heartbeat.  We discharge them immediately when they act out.

So beat your mouth off all you want here.  For you, it is enjoyable, like masturbation, but also is just as sterile.


----------



## squeeze berry

BrutalTruth said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> nah, brutaltroll, you are not in charge here
> 
> you walk into our schools with a chip on your shoulder, you will leave with it knocked off
> 
> support your schools and teachers, and do you children a favor, hmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I had one teacher, such as yourself, terminated from employment just last year. Fact is, the "our schools" quite frankly just isn't how it works. Perhaps some study into the rapid increase of children being home schooled would be in order for you, and some preparations made into a more "stable" field of employment wouldn't hurt either.
Click to expand...


you had a teacher terminated?


----------



## wjmacguffin

BrutalTruth said:


> Lol, I had one teacher, such as yourself, terminated from employment just last year. Fact is, the "our schools" quite frankly just isn't how it works. Perhaps some study into the rapid increase of children being home schooled would be in order for you, and some preparations made into a more "stable" field of employment wouldn't hurt either.


From what I understand, the recent increase in home schooling is due to religious objections, not educational reasons. This is due, in part, to the rise of fundamentalism in the US objecting to things like evolution. 

"Fact is, the 'our schools' quite frankly just isn't how it works." If you're a product of public schools, I agree. Your grammar is atrocious.  Just kidding!

You have to remember that public schools do more than just educate. They culturalize and socialize, turning individuals into citizens and members of our communities, both local and national. That's extremely valuable. 

And as a former teacher and principal of private schools, I can tell you first-hand that they can be better AND worse than public schools. It more depends on funding, local culture, quality of parenting, and quality of instruction. Private schools do not have a lock on any of that.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The far religious right gets pissy that public schools teach critical thinking, which, in fact, undermines church and parental teachings.  So the private school or home school their children.  The children, who write well to the 2nd level of analysis, freak when they get to college and encounter critical thinking.  Once they get through that heart break, they do fairly well.


----------



## squeeze berry

BrutalTruth said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is
> 
> so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.
> 
> thanks for your help
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *It's your job as a teacher to provide and set forth a curriculum that both engages and **inspires students to learn*. School counselors are paid a salary because "supposedly" they have the ability to offset anything that might be deterring a child from learning.
> 
> Clearly wasted salaries and tax payers dollars on both accounts. As well, grammar as a teacher is second nature, and a peeve when not performed properly. You are no teacher, but troll?
Click to expand...


how the hell old are you anyway?

you sound like a spoiled teenager.  Should I get in front of the class and do a song and dance about fractions?

Stand on my head and recite the Kama Sutra? 


What are the guidance counselors going to do, inject 50 IQ points into their brains or do a song and dance to that will get them to magicallly give a shit? 



BTW, why isn't your post in APA format?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Just so, sb.  Birthcontrol Troll is just being a pill and a good HS teacher will jack him up this fall.



squeeze berry said:


> BrutalTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is
> 
> so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.
> 
> thanks for your help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It's your job as a teacher to provide and set forth a curriculum that both engages and **inspires students to learn*. School counselors are paid a salary because "supposedly" they have the ability to offset anything that might be deterring a child from learning.
> 
> Clearly wasted salaries and tax payers dollars on both accounts. As well, grammar as a teacher is second nature, and a peeve when not performed properly. You are no teacher, but troll?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how the hell old are you anyway?
> 
> you sound like a spoiled teenager.  Should I get in front of the class and do a song and dance about fractions?
> 
> Stand on my head and recite the Kama Sutra?
> 
> 
> What are the guidance counselors going to do, inject 50 IQ points into their brains or do a song and dance to that will get them to magicallly give a shit?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, why isn't your post in APA format?
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> The parents I needed to talk to never showed up, even after calls to remind them of the open house or conferences.
> The ones that showed up, I didn't really need to see them. Their kids were doing fine.
> 
> I wonder if there is a message in this.....



Of course. Those parents who are involved have better students.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students and school systems, generally, succeed or fail on the involvement or not of parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is
> 
> so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.
> 
> thanks for your help
Click to expand...

You may do this. But just be diplomatic about it.
That's a problem many teachers have with meeting with parents. They do not want to say things to parents that the parents do not want to hear.
However, there are teachers who will try to blow sunshine up your ass. That to me is "bullshit".


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I* hope you are sharing your opinions in appropriate manner, dutiful and respectful.*We had one parent say she would "kill a teacher" if said teacher ever restrained her child if he physically acted out.
> 
> As school board president, I and the board approved the superintendent's directive that she be arrested and led out in handcuffs in front of the other parents.
> 
> She was placed under bond for good behavior, and she did behave herself.
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> he is probablly not
> 
> I have had some parents that are quite nice. I would do anything they asked.
> 
> but there have been others that think that since they are a tax payer and you are working with their child they can treat you like dirt and demand special treatment.
Click to expand...

When I met with teachers I would use the "tis easier to attract bees with honey than with vinegar" approach.
People wish to treat others with respect. Therefore I go on that premise.
It worked miracles getting extra help and mentoring for my son. He was not the best student on the planet for sure. Once the teachers he had go to know me, it resulted in smooth sailing, for the most part.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> We instructed our teachers to always try to work with parents, but if they instead on playing the fool we would have them escorted off campus with a warning that when they came back they would come back to help not hinder the educational process.
> 
> Some of them tried the TPM shout out process in board meetings until they found themselves in jail for the night.
> 
> Some parents don't get they are not in charge of the day to day school process.
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I* hope you are sharing your opinions in appropriate manner, dutiful and respectful.*We had one parent say she would "kill a teacher" if said teacher ever restrained her child if he physically acted out.
> 
> As school board president, I and the board approved the superintendent's directive that she be arrested and led out in handcuffs in front of the other parents.
> 
> She was placed under bond for good behavior, and she did behave herself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he is probablly not
> 
> I have had some parents that are quite nice. I would do anything they asked.
> 
> but there have been others that think that since they are a tax payer and you are working with their child they can treat you like dirt and demand special treatment.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Well, that's true but not accurate. Parents get the final say when they vote on school budgets, use their voices to pressure administrators and of course involve themselves in the overall process.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Having children should not be a "right".



Ouch....That opens a rather large can of worms.
Read this quote from the movie "Parenthood"...
Keanu Reeves:....
"Ya know what Mrs. Buckman? You have to get a license to catch a fish. They make you have a license for your dog, but they will let any sorry jerk have a kid."


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> nah, brutaltroll, you are not in charge here
> 
> you walk into our schools with a chip on your shoulder, you will leave with it knocked off
> 
> support your schools and teachers, and do you children a favor, hmmm?



A chip, yes. With a legitimate concern/complaint yes by all means.
As long as the schools take our taxpayer dollars, that money comes with strings attached.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Brutal Troll, you are talking nonsense, and you know it.  If you walked into our schools, you would have toed the line. period.  I was the school board president, not a teacher, and I backed the superintendent and his policies.  His first policy was to back the teachers, particularly against parents, like you, who had not a clue about education.  Our students went to LSU, A&M, USC, Stanford, and Duke.  I am not in the least concerned that you have any idea about what good educational administration or good pedagogy requires.  You don't.
> 
> My family members and I own a chain of businesses across the lower south, we are very successful, and we all recognize trolls like you in a heartbeat.  We discharge them immediately when they act out.
> 
> So beat your mouth off all you want here.  For you, it is enjoyable, like masturbation, but also is just as sterile.



Look, you have experience in the area of public education. That's fine. You decided to serve on a school board. Beautiful. What is frightening is your "back up" commentary.
That is WRONG. School boards are supposed to be neutral. These bodies are supposed to represent the taxpayers on issues regarding the public schools. School board members would be unethical should they as you had done, which was to take sides.
And why did you find it necessary to post your resume? What you do for a living is irrelevant to the subject matter of the thread.


----------



## thereisnospoon

wjmacguffin said:


> BrutalTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I had one teacher, such as yourself, terminated from employment just last year. Fact is, the "our schools" quite frankly just isn't how it works. Perhaps some study into the rapid increase of children being home schooled would be in order for you, and some preparations made into a more "stable" field of employment wouldn't hurt either.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand, the recent increase in home schooling is due to religious objections, not educational reasons. This is due, in part, to the rise of fundamentalism in the US objecting to things like evolution.
> 
> "Fact is, the 'our schools' quite frankly just isn't how it works." If you're a product of public schools, I agree. Your grammar is atrocious.  Just kidding!
> 
> You have to remember that public schools do more than just educate. They culturalize and socialize, turning individuals into citizens and members of our communities, both local and national. That's extremely valuable.
> 
> And as a former teacher and principal of private schools, I can tell you first-hand that they can be better AND worse than public schools. It more depends on funding, local culture, quality of parenting, and quality of instruction. Private schools do not have a lock on any of that.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should do a little more research. Parents remove their kids from the public schools for many reasons. Religion being just one.
These reasons include: ridiculous bus schedules, poor discipline, poor test scores, low teacher performance expectations, substandard curriculum, unresponsive school administrators.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> The far religious right gets pissy that public schools teach critical thinking, which, in fact, undermines church and parental teachings.  So the private school or home school their children.  The children, who write well to the 2nd level of analysis, freak when they get to college and encounter critical thinking.  Once they get through that heart break, they do fairly well.



In what state are kids taught critical thinking skills? Please tell me where this educational utopia exists!
I maintain that critical thinking is suppressed in favor of learning "the test".
Standardized testing has ruined public education. 
I have three friends that teach. One is a private school teacher. There is no teaching the test in that school( 95% of graduates attend college). The other two are public school teachers. They will tell me they are not supposed to "teach the test". But they ALL tell me that is precisely what they teach.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> BrutalTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is
> 
> so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.
> 
> thanks for your help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *It's your job as a teacher to provide and set forth a curriculum that both engages and **inspires students to learn*. School counselors are paid a salary because "supposedly" they have the ability to offset anything that might be deterring a child from learning.
> 
> Clearly wasted salaries and tax payers dollars on both accounts. As well, grammar as a teacher is second nature, and a peeve when not performed properly. You are no teacher, but troll?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how the hell old are you anyway?
> 
> you sound like a spoiled teenager.  Should I get in front of the class and do a song and dance about fractions?
> 
> Stand on my head and recite the Kama Sutra?
> 
> 
> What are the guidance counselors going to do, inject 50 IQ points into their brains or do a song and dance to that will get them to magicallly give a shit?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, why isn't your post in APA format?
Click to expand...

You are expressing the same rhetoric that gives the general public the perception that educators look to blame every one else for the problems that exist.
Quite frankly, the taxpayers have grown tired of the excuses and the constant demands for more in tax dollars to "fix" the problems.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> The teachers are always stunned to see my wife AND me at meetings.
> 
> they suffer for it, since I don't tolerate bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is
> 
> so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.
> 
> thanks for your help
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You may do this. But just be diplomatic about it.
> That's a problem many teachers have with meeting with parents. They do not want to say things to parents that the parents do not want to hear.
> However, there are teachers who will try to blow sunshine up your ass. That to me is "bullshit".
Click to expand...


in the past i have been quite diplomatic not wanting to give the parents an excuse to go to the superintendant saying I was rude to them. 

As a result i have taken quite a bit of shit from parents without responding.

Those kind of parents aren't the norm, but they still get away with it because they are not held accountable by the school board.

Our principle told us that a school board member will almost always side with the parent. the SB member wants their vote.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrutalTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It's your job as a teacher to provide and set forth a curriculum that both engages and **inspires students to learn*. School counselors are paid a salary because "supposedly" they have the ability to offset anything that might be deterring a child from learning.
> 
> Clearly wasted salaries and tax payers dollars on both accounts. As well, grammar as a teacher is second nature, and a peeve when not performed properly. You are no teacher, but troll?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how the hell old are you anyway?
> 
> you sound like a spoiled teenager.  Should I get in front of the class and do a song and dance about fractions?
> 
> Stand on my head and recite the Kama Sutra?
> 
> 
> What are the guidance counselors going to do, inject 50 IQ points into their brains or do a song and dance to that will get them to magicallly give a shit?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, why isn't your post in APA format?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are expressing the same rhetoric that gives the general public the perception that educators look to blame every one else for the problems that exist.
> Quite frankly, the taxpayers have grown tired of the excuses and the constant demands for more in tax dollars to "fix" the problems.
Click to expand...


how many threads do you seen on USMB blaming teachers for everything under the sun ? 

Compare that to how many  threads are started by teachers that blame students or parents? 

I'll be waiting for your answer.

PS it's attitudes like yours that makes many teachers want to quit


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a teacher and I would like to know what your idea of "bullshit" is
> 
> so that next time I speak with a parent maybe I can dispense with the bullshit and tell them straightforward that their kid is doing poorly because he is stupid and lazy just like them.
> 
> thanks for your help
> 
> 
> 
> You may do this. But just be diplomatic about it.
> That's a problem many teachers have with meeting with parents. They do not want to say things to parents that the parents do not want to hear.
> However, there are teachers who will try to blow sunshine up your ass. That to me is "bullshit".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> in the past i have been quite diplomatic not wanting to give the parents an excuse to go to the superintendant saying I was rude to them.
> 
> As a result i have taken quite a bit of shit from parents without responding.
> 
> Those kind of parents aren't the norm, but they still get away with it because they are not held accountable by the school board.
> 
> Our principle told us that a school board member will almost always side with the parent. the SB member wants their vote.
Click to expand...

As I stated, school board members should be neutral. To make decisions and determinations without passion or prejudice.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> how the hell old are you anyway?
> 
> you sound like a spoiled teenager.  Should I get in front of the class and do a song and dance about fractions?
> 
> Stand on my head and recite the Kama Sutra?
> 
> 
> What are the guidance counselors going to do, inject 50 IQ points into their brains or do a song and dance to that will get them to magicallly give a shit?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, why isn't your post in APA format?
> 
> 
> 
> You are expressing the same rhetoric that gives the general public the perception that educators look to blame every one else for the problems that exist.
> Quite frankly, the taxpayers have grown tired of the excuses and the constant demands for more in tax dollars to "fix" the problems.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> how many threads do you seen on USMB blaming teachers for everything under the sun ?
> 
> Compare that to how many  threads are started by teachers that blame students or parents?
> 
> I'll be waiting for your answer.
> 
> PS it's attitudes like yours that makes many teachers want to quit
Click to expand...

That is not my concern. As matter of fact, I don't care about other threads. 
I believe the number of good people involved with public education far outnumber the drones and dregs. 
The point is, whining and moaning among the few and then the excuses and support of the whining and moaning get all the attention.
At the end of the day however, nobody cares anymore. The taxpayers are now demanding results and no longer want to hear excuses.
If that is unpalatable, then those who cannot cope or keep their professionalism out front, can leave teaching/administration.
For every teacher/administrator that threaten to leave the business, there are many times that number of hungry and willing to do the job and do it well.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Threatening a teacher is not a legitimate reason for visiting on parent/teachers night, kiddo.

Hint: parents are not in charge of public education.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> nah, brutaltroll, you are not in charge here
> 
> you walk into our schools with a chip on your shoulder, you will leave with it knocked off
> 
> support your schools and teachers, and do you children a favor, hmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A chip, yes. With a legitimate concern/complaint yes by all means.
> As long as the schools take our taxpayer dollars, that money comes with strings attached.
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

School boards do take sides: the side of public education and the welfare of children's education.

So, yes, when parents get out of hand, they are dealt with as a public hazard.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brutal Troll, you are talking nonsense, and you know it.  If you walked into our schools, you would have toed the line. period.  I was the school board president, not a teacher, and I backed the superintendent and his policies.  His first policy was to back the teachers, particularly against parents, like you, who had not a clue about education.  Our students went to LSU, A&M, USC, Stanford, and Duke.  I am not in the least concerned that you have any idea about what good educational administration or good pedagogy requires.  You don't.
> 
> My family members and I own a chain of businesses across the lower south, we are very successful, and we all recognize trolls like you in a heartbeat.  We discharge them immediately when they act out.
> 
> So beat your mouth off all you want here.  For you, it is enjoyable, like masturbation, but also is just as sterile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, you have experience in the area of public education. That's fine. You decided to serve on a school board. Beautiful. What is frightening is your "back up" commentary.
> That is WRONG. School boards are supposed to be neutral. These bodies are supposed to represent the taxpayers on issues regarding the public schools. School board members would be unethical should they as you had done, which was to take sides.
> And why did you find it necessary to post your resume? What you do for a living is irrelevant to the subject matter of the thread.
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

All of those are true reasons but the most relevant one is the religious far right unhappiness with evolution and critical thinking.



thereisnospoon said:


> wjmacguffin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrutalTruth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I had one teacher, such as yourself, terminated from employment just last year. Fact is, the "our schools" quite frankly just isn't how it works. Perhaps some study into the rapid increase of children being home schooled would be in order for you, and some preparations made into a more "stable" field of employment wouldn't hurt either.
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand, the recent increase in home schooling is due to religious objections, not educational reasons. This is due, in part, to the rise of fundamentalism in the US objecting to things like evolution.
> 
> "Fact is, the 'our schools' quite frankly just isn't how it works." If you're a product of public schools, I agree. Your grammar is atrocious.  Just kidding!
> 
> You have to remember that public schools do more than just educate. They culturalize and socialize, turning individuals into citizens and members of our communities, both local and national. That's extremely valuable.
> 
> And as a former teacher and principal of private schools, I can tell you first-hand that they can be better AND worse than public schools. It more depends on funding, local culture, quality of parenting, and quality of instruction. Private schools do not have a lock on any of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps you should do a little more research. Parents remove their kids from the public schools for many reasons. Religion being just one.
> These reasons include: ridiculous bus schedules, poor discipline, poor test scores, low teacher performance expectations, substandard curriculum, unresponsive school administrators.
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

And all three have told you, if you asked, that they try to teach critical thinking.  Ask them.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The far religious right gets pissy that public schools teach critical thinking, which, in fact, undermines church and parental teachings.  So the private school or home school their children.  The children, who write well to the 2nd level of analysis, freak when they get to college and encounter critical thinking.  Once they get through that heart break, they do fairly well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In what state are kids taught critical thinking skills? Please tell me where this educational utopia exists!
> I maintain that critical thinking is suppressed in favor of learning "the test".
> Standardized testing has ruined public education.
> I have three friends that teach. One is a private school teacher. There is no teaching the test in that school( 95% of graduates attend college). The other two are public school teachers. They will tell me they are not supposed to "teach the test". But they ALL tell me that is precisely what they teach.
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

The parents, in our school district, participate but do not run the school district or make administrative and disciplinary decisions.

Those districts that demand and hold parents accountable succeed, and those who cater to whiners and the dregs do not succeed.



thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are expressing the same rhetoric that gives the general public the perception that educators look to blame every one else for the problems that exist.
> Quite frankly, the taxpayers have grown tired of the excuses and the constant demands for more in tax dollars to "fix" the problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how many threads do you seen on USMB blaming teachers for everything under the sun ?
> 
> Compare that to how many  threads are started by teachers that blame students or parents?
> 
> I'll be waiting for your answer.
> 
> PS it's attitudes like yours that makes many teachers want to quit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not my concern. As matter of fact, I don't care about other threads.
> I believe the number of good people involved with public education far outnumber the drones and dregs.
> The point is, whining and moaning among the few and then the excuses and support of the whining and moaning get all the attention.
> At the end of the day however, nobody cares anymore. The taxpayers are now demanding results and no longer want to hear excuses.
> If that is unpalatable, then those who cannot cope or keep their professionalism out front, can leave teaching/administration.
> For every teacher/administrator that threaten to leave the business, there are many times that number of hungry and willing to do the job and do it well.
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> School boards do take sides: the side of public education and the welfare of children's education.
> 
> So, yes, when parents get out of hand, they are dealt with as a public hazard.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brutal Troll, you are talking nonsense, and you know it.  If you walked into our schools, you would have toed the line. period.  I was the school board president, not a teacher, and I backed the superintendent and his policies.  His first policy was to back the teachers, particularly against parents, like you, who had not a clue about education.  Our students went to LSU, A&M, USC, Stanford, and Duke.  I am not in the least concerned that you have any idea about what good educational administration or good pedagogy requires.  You don't.
> 
> My family members and I own a chain of businesses across the lower south, we are very successful, and we all recognize trolls like you in a heartbeat.  We discharge them immediately when they act out.
> 
> So beat your mouth off all you want here.  For you, it is enjoyable, like masturbation, but also is just as sterile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, you have experience in the area of public education. That's fine. You decided to serve on a school board. Beautiful. What is frightening is your "back up" commentary.
> That is WRONG. School boards are supposed to be neutral. These bodies are supposed to represent the taxpayers on issues regarding the public schools. School board members would be unethical should they as you had done, which was to take sides.
> And why did you find it necessary to post your resume? What you do for a living is irrelevant to the subject matter of the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I think you are attempting to convey your message as if it were a perfect world.
Too often the relationship between school boards and the taxpayers is adversarial.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> And all three have told you, if you asked, that they try to teach critical thinking.  Ask them.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The far religious right gets pissy that public schools teach critical thinking, which, in fact, undermines church and parental teachings.  So the private school or home school their children.  The children, who write well to the 2nd level of analysis, freak when they get to college and encounter critical thinking.  Once they get through that heart break, they do fairly well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In what state are kids taught critical thinking skills? Please tell me where this educational utopia exists!
> I maintain that critical thinking is suppressed in favor of learning "the test".
> Standardized testing has ruined public education.
> I have three friends that teach. One is a private school teacher. There is no teaching the test in that school( 95% of graduates attend college). The other two are public school teachers. They will tell me they are not supposed to "teach the test". But they ALL tell me that is precisely what they teach.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

They would like to teach in terms of critical thinking. It is not permitted. They have no reason to make up a story like that. The bottom line is making sure the kids are prepared for testing. Reason...Test scores is where officials look when it comes to funding in the next year's budget. Test scores are what people look for when choosing a neighborhood in which to buy a home. Test scores are what are reported in the news. Test scores are the one item school board members and school administrators get to crow about. Test scores are what this state uses when rating schools with descriptors such as "School of Excellence". "Outstanding" or "Merit".


----------



## JakeStarkey

Thank you, thereisnospoon, for bringing rationality to the discussion.

Of course problems exist in school boards and with tax payer groups and with parents good and bad.

To suggest somehow, though, that school boards are out to screw over parents and taxpayer groups, _ipso facto,_ is simply not true.  In my school board, that was not the case.  My business was the one of the largest taxpayers in the counties of five adjoining school districts, and we never moved for lower rates and supported the two hikes while I was president.

I know how hard we worked, how hard our teachers worked, and how hard several bad parents made it for everybody.  Still, the school districts turned out superior students for a number of years.  They still do well today.  They are among the few in our region.


----------



## JakeStarkey

I can't speak for those schools, only for ours.  Our teachers were encouraged, coached, etc, on critical thinking and how to teach it.  All of us were better for it.

My pastor was concerned that having students think for themselves and clearly would somehow undermine his daughter's faith.  I told him that if the church and the family were doing the job they should in our communities, no one would have any worry about faith matters.





thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all three have told you, if you asked, that they try to teach critical thinking.  Ask them.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> In what state are kids taught critical thinking skills? Please tell me where this educational utopia exists!
> I maintain that critical thinking is suppressed in favor of learning "the test".
> Standardized testing has ruined public education.
> I have three friends that teach. One is a private school teacher. There is no teaching the test in that school( 95% of graduates attend college). The other two are public school teachers. They will tell me they are not supposed to "teach the test". But they ALL tell me that is precisely what they teach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They would like to teach in terms of critical thinking. It is not permitted. They have no reason to make up a story like that. The bottom line is making sure the kids are prepared for testing. Reason...Test scores is where officials look when it comes to funding in the next year's budget. Test scores are what people look for when choosing a neighborhood in which to buy a home. Test scores are what are reported in the news. Test scores are the one item school board members and school administrators get to crow about. Test scores are what this state uses when rating schools with descriptors such as "School of Excellence". "Outstanding" or "Merit".
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> The parents, in our school district, participate but do not run the school district or make administrative and disciplinary decisions.
> 
> Those districts that demand and hold parents accountable succeed, and those who cater to whiners and the dregs do not succeed.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> how many threads do you seen on USMB blaming teachers for everything under the sun ?
> 
> Compare that to how many  threads are started by teachers that blame students or parents?
> 
> I'll be waiting for your answer.
> 
> PS it's attitudes like yours that makes many teachers want to quit
> 
> 
> 
> That is not my concern. As matter of fact, I don't care about other threads.
> I believe the number of good people involved with public education far outnumber the drones and dregs.
> The point is, whining and moaning among the few and then the excuses and support of the whining and moaning get all the attention.
> At the end of the day however, nobody cares anymore. The taxpayers are now demanding results and no longer want to hear excuses.
> If that is unpalatable, then those who cannot cope or keep their professionalism out front, can leave teaching/administration.
> For every teacher/administrator that threaten to leave the business, there are many times that number of hungry and willing to do the job and do it well.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I did not state the parents "ran" the schools. I stated they get the last say with their votes.
Big difference.
Taxpayers are either turning over school boards, when permitted vote down school budgets or if necessary, vote with their feet.
The latter is happening here. People are moving out of the nearby city due to high taxes, dissatisfaction with the way the schools are being operated or they are just fed up with the constant bickering and unprofessionalism of the school board.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> I can't speak for those schools, only for ours.  Our teachers were encouraged, coached, etc, on critical thinking and how to teach it.  All of us were better for it.
> 
> My pastor was concerned that having students think for themselves and clearly would somehow undermine his daughter's faith.  I told him that if the church and the family were doing the job they should in our communities, no one would have any worry about faith matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all three have told you, if you asked, that they try to teach critical thinking.  Ask them.
> 
> 
> 
> They would like to teach in terms of critical thinking. It is not permitted. They have no reason to make up a story like that. The bottom line is making sure the kids are prepared for testing. Reason...Test scores is where officials look when it comes to funding in the next year's budget. Test scores are what people look for when choosing a neighborhood in which to buy a home. Test scores are what are reported in the news. Test scores are the one item school board members and school administrators get to crow about. Test scores are what this state uses when rating schools with descriptors such as "School of Excellence". "Outstanding" or "Merit".
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Someone should haul your pastor into the classroom and allow him to witness critical thinking. Instead it seems he has his mind made up that such a concept is negative.
Closed mindedness no matter on which side of the ideological spectrum is a bad thing. It's ok to have core beliefs and standards. Being a stick in the mud is not.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> All of those are true reasons but the most relevant one is the religious far right unhappiness with evolution and critical thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wjmacguffin said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand, the recent increase in home schooling is due to religious objections, not educational reasons. This is due, in part, to the rise of fundamentalism in the US objecting to things like evolution.
> 
> "Fact is, the 'our schools' quite frankly just isn't how it works." If you're a product of public schools, I agree. Your grammar is atrocious.  Just kidding!
> 
> You have to remember that public schools do more than just educate. They culturalize and socialize, turning individuals into citizens and members of our communities, both local and national. That's extremely valuable.
> 
> And as a former teacher and principal of private schools, I can tell you first-hand that they can be better AND worse than public schools. It more depends on funding, local culture, quality of parenting, and quality of instruction. Private schools do not have a lock on any of that.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should do a little more research. Parents remove their kids from the public schools for many reasons. Religion being just one.
> These reasons include: ridiculous bus schedules, poor discipline, poor test scores, low teacher performance expectations, substandard curriculum, unresponsive school administrators.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


If you want to debate an issue, stop insisting you are the only one who is correct.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Haven't said anything of the sort.  But I do know what I am talking about.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of those are true reasons but the most relevant one is the religious far right unhappiness with evolution and critical thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should do a little more research. Parents remove their kids from the public schools for many reasons. Religion being just one.
> These reasons include: ridiculous bus schedules, poor discipline, poor test scores, low teacher performance expectations, substandard curriculum, unresponsive school administrators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you want to debate an issue, stop insisting you are the only one who is correct.
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Thank you, thereisnospoon, for bringing rationality to the discussion.
> 
> Of course problems exist in school boards and with tax payer groups and with parents good and bad.
> 
> To suggest somehow, though, that school boards are out to screw over parents and taxpayer groups, _ipso facto,_ is simply not true.  In my school board, that was not the case.  My business was the one of the largest taxpayers in the counties of five adjoining school districts, and we never moved for lower rates and supported the two hikes while I was president.
> 
> I know how hard we worked, how hard our teachers worked, and how hard several bad parents made it for everybody.  Still, the school districts turned out superior students for a number of years.  They still do well today.  They are among the few in our region.


I never stated "All" school boards. Unfortunately, where legal, school boards that have taxing authority( the ability to write and vote on budgets) show little if any accountability to the taxpayers. That is until the year before the next election. 
In my home state and many others in the Northeast and some in other areas of the country, the voters decide via referendum. IMO This is the correct way to decide. It places the power to tax into the hands of the people being taxed. I can tell you this. In my home town a school budget was never voted down. Why? Because the school board knew they had to write a reasonable budget. Smooth sailing.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Wacky Facts taught in the USA

The New Deal save the US economy

Joe McCarthy's House Unamerican Activities Committee started a Red Scare and blacklisted innocent people

LBJ was a Civil Right hero

Obamacare does not cut Medicare


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Haven't said anything of the sort.  But I do know what I am talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of those are true reasons but the most relevant one is the religious far right unhappiness with evolution and critical thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to debate an issue, stop insisting you are the only one who is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


You most likely do know your area. However, please do not imply the reasons I listed while probable are not as 'important' as your lone reason.
I have no idea where you are. I live in the 'buckle of the Bible Belt' And i can tell you that while religion is a concern of home schooling parents, it is not the only or the main reason for home schooling.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Our tax payers had to approve the board requests for hikes or bonds, and I agree that is absolutely correct.

The board before ours learned never to lead a bond with "this is for improving athletics."  Bury any sports stuff deep in the bond.  

We were out of compliance in our stadium on access.  Would have cost us a million or some to come into code.  Every year I had to fight to make sure we had the board votes to pay the $25K fine instead, so we had $$$ for other things.  We did create handicap free of charge entrance and front, level seating for those who are impaired.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Don't teach that about the ND in our districts.  You are wrong about McCarthy and FDR, and that has been completely proven to you many times.  I happen to agree with you on number 4, but Romney does not.



CrusaderFrank said:


> Wacky Facts taught in the USA
> 
> The New Deal save the US economy
> 
> Joe McCarthy's House Unamerican Activities Committee started a Red Scare and blacklisted innocent people
> 
> LBJ was a Civil Right hero
> 
> Obamacare does not cut Medicare


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are expressing the same rhetoric that gives the general public the perception that educators look to blame every one else for the problems that exist.
> Quite frankly, the taxpayers have grown tired of the excuses and the constant demands for more in tax dollars to "fix" the problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how many threads do you seen on USMB blaming teachers for everything under the sun ?
> 
> Compare that to how many  threads are started by teachers that blame students or parents?
> 
> I'll be waiting for your answer.
> 
> PS it's attitudes like yours that makes many teachers want to quit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not my concern. As matter of fact, I don't care about other threads.
> I believe the number of good people involved with public education far outnumber the drones and dregs.
> 
> 
> The point is, whining and moaning among the few and then the excuses and support of the whining and moaning get all the attention.
> At the end of the day however, nobody cares anymore. The taxpayers are now demanding results and no longer want to hear excuses.
> If that is unpalatable, then those who cannot cope or keep their professionalism out front, can leave teaching/administration.
> For every teacher/administrator that threaten to leave the business, there are many times that number of hungry and willing to do the job and do it well.
Click to expand...


 families are moving to my  school district cluster so that I can be their kid's  teacher. In the end I doubt if anyone gives a fuck about your ignorant opinion anyway.

Go ahead , replace me. Make my friggin day asshole

Edit: that  ^ isn't exactly true

Families are asking special permission to have their child  bussed to my school so that I can be their teacher. Again, go ahead, make my friggin day


----------



## JakeStarkey

In my area, they aren't.  But that is what I have observed generally in my region.  I have no doubt that you are reporting clearly what you are seeing you region.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't said anything of the sort.  But I do know what I am talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to debate an issue, stop insisting you are the only one who is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You most likely do know your area. However, please do not imply the reasons I listed while probable are not as 'important' as your lone reason.
> I have no idea where you are. I live in the 'buckle of the Bible Belt' And i can tell you that while religion is a concern of home schooling parents, it is not the only or the main reason for home schooling.
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Our tax payers had to approve the board requests for hikes or bonds, and I agree that is absolutely correct.
> 
> The board before ours learned never to lead a bond with "this is for improving athletics."  Bury any sports stuff deep in the bond.
> 
> We were out of compliance in our stadium on access.  Would have cost us a million or some to come into code.  Every year I had to fight to make sure we had the board votes to pay the $25K fine instead, so we had $$$ for other things.  We did create handicap free of charge entrance and front, level seating for those who are impaired.


Good move.. In many areas, the school board would have caved and spent the hundreds of thousands of dollars to remodel the stadium.
On athletics. This is a sore spot for me. Here in the south there is IMO far too much emphasis on school sports. 
Number one. Every school, even elementary schools have athletic fields. That is ridiculous.
Every high school has to have a football stadium. Here  is a comparison I have a hard time making. Where I come from less than 20% of the annual budget is spent on sports. Where I live in central NC , athletics make up well over 1/3 rd of the budget. Where I come from HS football does not start until two weeks after classes begin. Here in NC the HS football season started YESTERDAY....When do classes begin? Next Monday. 
In NJ football coaches cannot be on the field with the players until the week classes begin. 
If caught, the school is forced to forfeit all games that season and the offending coaches can be fined or banned from coaching. 
Anyway.. If it were up to me, education and academics would get first priority no matter what. BTW, I was a HS athlete. We had no pass no play. Way back in the 70's...They are just getting to that here only recently.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> how many threads do you seen on USMB blaming teachers for everything under the sun ?
> 
> Compare that to how many  threads are started by teachers that blame students or parents?
> 
> I'll be waiting for your answer.
> 
> PS it's attitudes like yours that makes many teachers want to quit
> 
> 
> 
> That is not my concern. As matter of fact, I don't care about other threads.
> I believe the number of good people involved with public education far outnumber the drones and dregs.
> The point is, whining and moaning among the few and then the excuses and support of the whining and moaning get all the attention.
> At the end of the day however, nobody cares anymore. The taxpayers are now demanding results and no longer want to hear excuses.
> If that is unpalatable, then those who cannot cope or keep their professionalism out front, can leave teaching/administration.
> For every teacher/administrator that threaten to leave the business, there are many times that number of hungry and willing to do the job and do it well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> families are moving to my  school district cluster so that I can be their kid's  teacher. In the end I doubt if anyone gives a fuck about your ignorant opinion anyway.
> 
> Go ahead , replace me. Make my friggin day asshole
Click to expand...


Your demeanor here which is demonstrating your intolerance to facts which controvert your point of view. 
Now, please do not tell me people are selling their homes and buying in the area where you teach just so their kid can be in your classroom. Do not be ridiculous.
Now, if you want to discuss ignorance and for that matter intolerance, remember this, it was not I who decided to hurl insults. Remember that on opening day of this upcoming school year when you look into the eyes of your students. Tell them exactly what you posted here. Verbatim and uncensored. Yeah, right.
Oh, I have no say whether or not you get replaced. You will do that to yourself.
One more thing..Apparently you think my "ignorant opinion" was important enough that not only did you feel compelled to respond, you could not control yourself. 
That's on you, pal.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> In my area, they aren't.  But that is what I have observed generally in my region.  I have no doubt that you are reporting clearly what you are seeing you region.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't said anything of the sort.  But I do know what I am talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You most likely do know your area. However, please do not imply the reasons I listed while probable are not as 'important' as your lone reason.
> I have no idea where you are. I live in the 'buckle of the Bible Belt' And i can tell you that while religion is a concern of home schooling parents, it is not the only or the main reason for home schooling.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Jake, it's been a pleasure. It is good that people on opposite sides of an issue can discuss rationally.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is not my concern. As matter of fact, I don't care about other threads.
> I believe the number of good people involved with public education far outnumber the drones and dregs.
> The point is, whining and moaning among the few and then the excuses and support of the whining and moaning get all the attention.
> At the end of the day however, nobody cares anymore. The taxpayers are now demanding results and no longer want to hear excuses.
> If that is unpalatable, then those who cannot cope or keep their professionalism out front, can leave teaching/administration.
> For every teacher/administrator that threaten to leave the business, there are many times that number of hungry and willing to do the job and do it well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> families are moving to my  school district cluster so that I can be their kid's  teacher. In the end I doubt if anyone gives a fuck about your ignorant opinion anyway.
> 
> Go ahead , replace me. Make my friggin day asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your demeanor here which is demonstrating your intolerance to facts which controvert your point of view.
> Now, please do not tell me people are selling their homes and buying in the area where you teach just so their kid can be in your classroom. Do not be ridiculous.
> Now, if you want to discuss ignorance and for that matter intolerance, remember this, it was not I who decided to hurl insults. Remember that on opening day of this upcoming school year when you look into the eyes of your students. Tell them exactly what you posted here. Verbatim and uncensored. Yeah, right.
> Oh, I have no say whether or not you get replaced. You will do that to yourself.
> One more thing..Apparently you think my "ignorant opinion" was important enough that not only did you feel compelled to respond, you could not control yourself.
> That's on you, pal.
Click to expand...


what is your occupation?


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> families are moving to my  school district cluster so that I can be their kid's  teacher. In the end I doubt if anyone gives a fuck about your ignorant opinion anyway.
> 
> Go ahead , replace me. Make my friggin day asshole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your demeanor here which is demonstrating your intolerance to facts which controvert your point of view.
> Now, please do not tell me people are selling their homes and buying in the area where you teach just so their kid can be in your classroom. Do not be ridiculous.
> Now, if you want to discuss ignorance and for that matter intolerance, remember this, it was not I who decided to hurl insults. Remember that on opening day of this upcoming school year when you look into the eyes of your students. Tell them exactly what you posted here. Verbatim and uncensored. Yeah, right.
> Oh, I have no say whether or not you get replaced. You will do that to yourself.
> One more thing..Apparently you think my "ignorant opinion" was important enough that not only did you feel compelled to respond, you could not control yourself.
> That's on you, pal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what is your occupation?
Click to expand...

I drink alcohol, fondle women and I am my own boss....
What difference does it make what I do for a living? You made YOUR occupation an issue by advertising to the board what it is you do.


----------



## dblack

Moonglow said:


> Wow, Loiusiana can't go much lower on the education rating scale, so what do they have to loose?



Spelling.


----------



## blimpo

The longer I think about it, the more I think schools should get out of the sports business..


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> Having children should not be a "right".



Forced abortions would really run your PP stock up, eh Fakey?


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> The parents I needed to talk to never showed up, even after calls to remind them of the open house or conferences.
> The ones that showed up, I didn't really need to see them. Their kids were doing fine.
> 
> I wonder if there is a message in this.....



Sounds like expulsion should be common. Leave school for those who want an education. The Prussian model of compulsory education is a clear failure.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Actually, fascists like you Uncensored love abortions of the "unwanted."

My point is that because folks can copulate does not make them ready to be parents.


----------



## Uncensored2008

BrutalTruth said:


> Lol, I had one teacher, such as yourself, terminated from employment just last year. Fact is, the "our schools" quite frankly just isn't how it works. Perhaps some study into the rapid increase of children being home schooled would be in order for you, and some preparations made into a more "stable" field of employment wouldn't hurt either.



Fakey is no teacher. Fakey is a paid DNC operative.

Interesting that you claimed you had a teacher fired. Out here in California, that simply isn't possible.  If a teacher is bad enough, they will remove them from the classroom, but the teacher will still receive full pay.

In all fairness though, I think the majority of teachers want to do a good job, but the deck is stacked against them. We force every child into school, despite the fact that many of them and their parents, don't want the child in school.  School need to be a privilege. Behave or be gone. If the state worries about warehousing the rest and preparing them for prison, then be honest and open work camps for those who refuse to engage in the educational system. 

Too many teachers are reduced to the status of prison guards, and denied even basic disciplinary options. We have a  broken system, blaming teachers won't fix anything.


----------



## JakeStarkey

This has already been discussed.

UncensoredFascist has no idea what he is talking about as a teacher, because he is a mere adjunct at a vo-tech school teaching welding.


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> This has already been discussed.
> 
> UncensoredFascist has no idea what he is talking about as a teacher, because he is a mere adjunct at a vo-tech school teaching welding.



ROFL

You make me laugh Fakey - but not for the reasons you imagine.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Uncensored2008 said:


> Interesting that you claimed you had a teacher fired. Out here in California, that simply isn't possible.




Simply not true.


> ALBERT LEA, Minn. -- An Albert Lea High School English teacher and girls' basketball coach has been dismissed for what the district called immoral conduct.
> 
> Read more here: Albert Lea teacher fired for 'immoral conduct' - AP State Wire News - The Sacramento Bee


----------



## Uncensored2008

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Simply not true.
> 
> 
> 
> ALBERT LEA, Minn. -- An Albert Lea High School English teacher and girls' basketball coach has been dismissed for what the district called immoral conduct.
> 
> Read more here: Albert Lea teacher fired for 'immoral conduct' - AP State Wire News - The Sacramento Bee
Click to expand...


Minnesota is California? When did that happen?

{Districts are also hamstrung by the dismissal process, forced to complete 10 complex steps that can last years.  Once a district moves to terminate, appeals may be filed to a review panel and the courts. 

Commissions on Professional Competence are often difficult to convene and can hinder the termination process altogether.  They are comprised of an administrative law judge, and 2 educators, 1 appointed by the district and 1 appointed by the accused.  It is often tough even to find panelists to serve.  Even when there is merit, these panels can overturn findings of wrongdoing and termination orders.  Violations of notification requirements and technicalities can also lead to a case being dismissed.5}

California Fact Check

It is virtually impossible to fire a teacher in California.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Yes, you are laughable. 





Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> This has already been discussed.
> 
> UncensoredFascist has no idea what he is talking about as a teacher, because he is a mere adjunct at a vo-tech school teaching welding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> You make me laugh Fakey - but not for the reasons you imagine.
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

OODA is right, UncensoredFascist is wrong about teachers unable to be fired in California.

But since he made the affirmation, he can offer proof for it.


----------



## Uncensored2008

JakeStarkey said:


> OODA is right, UncensoredFascist is wrong about teachers unable to be fired in California.



ROFL

Well, that's a convincing argument...



> But since he made the affirmation, he can offer proof for it.



The underlined words, you lying cocksucker. It's called a "hyperlink."


----------



## blimpo

Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> OODA is right, UncensoredFascist is wrong about teachers unable to be fired in California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> Well, that's a convincing argument...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But since he made the affirmation, he can offer proof for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The underlined words, you lying cocksucker. It's called a "hyperlink."
Click to expand...



Potty mouth..


----------



## Uncensored2008

blimpo said:


> Potty mouth..



Damned right.


----------



## Katzndogz

JakeStarkey said:


> OODA is right, UncensoredFascist is wrong about teachers unable to be fired in California.
> 
> But since he made the affirmation, he can offer proof for it.



It is not impossible to fire a teacher in California.  It is exeedingly difficult and costs thousands of dollars.

Firing teachers can be a costly and tortuous task - Los Angeles Times

This child predator was never actually fired!  He had to be arrested.

Mark Berndt, Ex-California Teacher, Faces Charges For Child Molesting 23 Students (VIDEO)


----------



## JakeStarkey

Here is some advice for UncensoredFascist from Augustine of Hippo to start avoiding the bad company of the far fascist right.

_Bad company is like a nail driven into a post, which, after the first and second blow, may be drawn out with little difficulty; but being once driven up to the head, the pincers cannot take hold to draw it out, but which can only be done by the destruction of the wood._
Read more at Augustine of Hippo Quotes - BrainyQuote

Stop, little fascist, or you will be forever corrupted and lost.




Uncensored2008 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> OODA is right, UncensoredFascist is wrong about teachers unable to be fired in California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> Well, that's a convincing argument...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But since he made the affirmation, he can offer proof for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The underlined words, you lying cocksucker. It's called a "hyperlink."
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Thank you for bring balance to this discussion.



Katzndogz said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> OODA is right, UncensoredFascist is wrong about teachers unable to be fired in California.
> 
> But since he made the affirmation, he can offer proof for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not impossible to fire a teacher in California.  It is exeedingly difficult and costs thousands of dollars.
> 
> Firing teachers can be a costly and tortuous task - Los Angeles Times
> 
> This child predator was never actually fired!  He had to be arrested.
> 
> Mark Berndt, Ex-California Teacher, Faces Charges For Child Molesting 23 Students (VIDEO)
Click to expand...


----------



## Uncensored2008

Fakey Jake Starkey, you've eaten enough paint chips, chasing them with rubbing alcohol, for one day.

Seriously.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Grow up, UncensoredFascist, and join the normal pace and pattern of your normal fellow human beings.

Your stupidity has painted you as one of the most weirdo posters here.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Uncensored2008 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply not true.
> 
> 
> 
> ALBERT LEA, Minn. -- An Albert Lea High School English teacher and girls' basketball coach has been dismissed for what the district called immoral conduct.
> 
> Read more here: Albert Lea teacher fired for 'immoral conduct' - AP State Wire News - The Sacramento Bee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Minnesota is California? When did that happen?
> 
> {Districts are also hamstrung by the dismissal process, forced to complete 10 complex steps that can last years.  Once a district moves to terminate, appeals may be filed to a review panel and the courts.
> 
> Commissions on Professional Competence are often difficult to convene and can hinder the termination process altogether.  They are comprised of an administrative law judge, and 2 educators, 1 appointed by the district and 1 appointed by the accused.  It is often tough even to find panelists to serve.  Even when there is merit, these panels can overturn findings of wrongdoing and termination orders.  Violations of notification requirements and technicalities can also lead to a case being dismissed.5}
> 
> California Fact Check
> 
> It is virtually impossible to fire a teacher in California.
Click to expand...



I thought you just said it wasn't possible to fire a teacher in California. Why would they convene a commission to determine whether or not to fire a teacher when firing them isn't allowed?


----------



## squeeze berry

story about a teacher firing

an administrator confiscated a cell phone from a boy that refused to put the thing away when asked.

What the administrator did not know is that the cell phone had pics on it of the boy's GF in scanty attire

The parents complained and the administrator was accused of possessing child pornography. Remember, this was the kid's phone.

Administrator was fired.

Then there was the criminal trial. Administrator was cleared of all charges. 

Sounds to me like it's too easy to fire a teacher. Just make false accusations.


----------



## JakeStarkey

squeez, please give us the whole story.  Give us a link.  Any administrator immediately would have had the police on the boy for possessing child pornography and had the parents in court for slander and damaging his good name.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> story about a teacher firing
> 
> an administrator confiscated a cell phone from a boy that refused to put the thing away when asked.
> 
> What the administrator did not know is that the cell phone had pics on it of the boy's GF in scanty attire
> 
> The parents complained and the administrator was accused of possessing child pornography. Remember, this was the kid's phone.
> 
> Administrator was fired.
> 
> Then there was the criminal trial. Administrator was cleared of all charges.
> 
> Sounds to me like it's too easy to fire a teacher. Just make false accusations.



Happens all the time. Stuff like this makes me want to beat the shit out somebody.
The guarantee to due process gets thrown out of the window.
I HATE political correctness. This is one of the examples of why.
Political correctness is destroying the very fabric of this nation.
The administrator should have sued the local school board jointly and severally. Sued the parents of the rotten son of a bitch that made the stink about the confiscated phone.
If it were me ( the administrator) I would have made these people want to wish they were never born. 
Yes, there are far too many incidents of teachers taking advantage of students. Of sexual misconduct. However that is no reason to throw common sense out of the window. 
Today, with our highly litigious and risk averse society, the mere accusation of misconduct can ruin a career. There is no balance.
In states where teachers belong to unions, they are virtually untouchable. In states where there are few protections, there is no due process, no review, no one to stand with the accused. 
The whole system is garbage.Thing is most times when teachers are wrongly accused, they refuse to fight back.


----------



## thereisnospoon

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Simply not true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minnesota is California? When did that happen?
> 
> {Districts are also hamstrung by the dismissal process, forced to complete 10 complex steps that can last years.  Once a district moves to terminate, appeals may be filed to a review panel and the courts.
> 
> Commissions on Professional Competence are often difficult to convene and can hinder the termination process altogether.  They are comprised of an administrative law judge, and 2 educators, 1 appointed by the district and 1 appointed by the accused.  It is often tough even to find panelists to serve.  Even when there is merit, these panels can overturn findings of wrongdoing and termination orders.  Violations of notification requirements and technicalities can also lead to a case being dismissed.5}
> 
> California Fact Check
> 
> It is virtually impossible to fire a teacher in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you just said it wasn't possible to fire a teacher in California. Why would they convene a commission to determine whether or not to fire a teacher when firing them isn't allowed?
Click to expand...

As in New York, the teacher is dismissed from their teaching position. They are paid their salary and benefits and do not lose their pension if vested. 
Google "rubber room". In New York City this is where "fired" or otherwise disciplined teachers go so that they can continue to paid their salary and assure their benefits.
In other words, bad teachers can not teach but the taxpayers are still paying them. What a deal!!!!


----------



## squeeze berry

JakeStarkey said:


> squeez, please give us the whole story.  Give us a link.  Any administrator immediately would have had the police on the boy for possessing child pornography and had the parents in court for slander and damaging his good name.



'Sexting' Hysteria Falsely Brands Educator as Child Pornographer | Threat Level | Wired.com

not quite as I described, but close enough

The mom made the porn possession accusation because the administrator would not drop the suspension for the other incident. Nevermind the image was from the kid's phone to begin with.

PS  that is why I belong to a union, which is actually an association. For legal protection if there is ever a false accusation. 

Parents in the county love to  make accusations.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Minnesota is California? When did that happen?
> 
> {Districts are also hamstrung by the dismissal process, forced to complete 10 complex steps that can last years.  Once a district moves to terminate, appeals may be filed to a review panel and the courts.
> 
> Commissions on Professional Competence are often difficult to convene and can hinder the termination process altogether.  They are comprised of an administrative law judge, and 2 educators, 1 appointed by the district and 1 appointed by the accused.  It is often tough even to find panelists to serve.  Even when there is merit, these panels can overturn findings of wrongdoing and termination orders.  Violations of notification requirements and technicalities can also lead to a case being dismissed.5}
> 
> California Fact Check
> 
> It is virtually impossible to fire a teacher in California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you just said it wasn't possible to fire a teacher in California. Why would they convene a commission to determine whether or not to fire a teacher when firing them isn't allowed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As in New York, the teacher is dismissed from their teaching position. They are paid their salary and benefits and do not lose their pension if vested.
> Google "rubber room". In New York City this is where "fired" or otherwise disciplined teachers go so that they can continue to paid their salary and assure their benefits.
> In other words, bad teachers can not teach but the taxpayers are still paying them. What a deal!!!!
Click to expand...


NYC is not the whole country and the rubber room is defunt over two years. Never lasted that long. 
One instance of this and the"teachers can't be fired " myth is borrn.SMH


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html?_r=1


----------



## JakeStarkey

Thanks.  We always advised as a Board that the Supe and the administrators and staff and teachers immediately consult counsel and counter-sue parental suits.

We as a district counter-sued a parent's suit.

The guy went almost crazy but did drop the suit.



squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you just said it wasn't possible to fire a teacher in California. Why would they convene a commission to determine whether or not to fire a teacher when firing them isn't allowed?
> 
> 
> 
> As in New York, the teacher is dismissed from their teaching position. They are paid their salary and benefits and do not lose their pension if vested.
> Google "rubber room". In New York City this is where "fired" or otherwise disciplined teachers go so that they can continue to paid their salary and assure their benefits.
> In other words, bad teachers can not teach but the taxpayers are still paying them. What a deal!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NYC is not the whole country and the rubber room is defunt over two years. Never lasted that long.
> One instance of this and the"teachers can't be fired " myth is borrn.SMH
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html?_r=1
Click to expand...


----------



## AVG-JOE

LordBrownTrout said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets see......
> 
> private education......vs..... public education.
> 
> 
> ill take private over public any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same here!!
Click to expand...


It's fortunate for me that The People were willing to invest in educating the masses when I was growing up.  My family would not have been able to afford a private education for myself and my siblings.

I'm lucky and I know it.  I'm a grown-up now, I pay taxes and I'm thankful for the opportunities my measly public education opened for me.


----------



## Uncensored2008

squeeze berry said:


> NYC is not the whole country and the rubber room is defunt over two years. Never lasted that long.
> One instance of this and the"teachers can't be fired " myth is borrn.SMH
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html?_r=1



I specified "California."

Some areas of the country have different rules; such as  South Riding, Virginia - per your anecdote.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you just said it wasn't possible to fire a teacher in California. Why would they convene a commission to determine whether or not to fire a teacher when firing them isn't allowed?
> 
> 
> 
> As in New York, the teacher is dismissed from their teaching position. They are paid their salary and benefits and do not lose their pension if vested.
> Google "rubber room". In New York City this is where "fired" or otherwise disciplined teachers go so that they can continue to paid their salary and assure their benefits.
> In other words, bad teachers can not teach but the taxpayers are still paying them. What a deal!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NYC is not the whole country and the rubber room is defunt over two years. Never lasted that long.
> One instance of this and the"teachers can't be fired " myth is borrn.SMH
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html?_r=1
Click to expand...


New Jersey teachers once tenured cannot be fired save for a few very serious infractions and then a lengthy process must be endured before the teacher is discharged. Discharged with benefits and pension intact. 
I am guessing NJ is not the only state where such rules can be found.
In any event, how you could take my post and turn it into a point on which to argue is a mystery.
Have you EVER carried on a conversation without arguing or bickering? Jesus Christ.


----------



## Uncensored2008

thereisnospoon said:


> New Jersey teachers once tenured cannot be fired save for a few very serious infractions and then a lengthy process must be endured before the teacher is discharged. Discharged with benefits and pension intact.
> I am guessing NJ is not the only state where such rules can be found.
> In any event, how you could take my post and turn it into a point on which to argue is a mystery.
> Have you EVER carried on a conversation without arguing or bickering? Jesus Christ.



So the "Dark Blue" states, where public employee unions run everything, make it virtually impossible to fire teachers - or any public master in any job.

In California, the public masters know that the public is THEIR servant, and will serve them without question.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> As in New York, the teacher is dismissed from their teaching position. They are paid their salary and benefits and do not lose their pension if vested.
> Google "rubber room". In New York City this is where "fired" or otherwise disciplined teachers go so that they can continue to paid their salary and assure their benefits.
> In other words, bad teachers can not teach but the taxpayers are still paying them. What a deal!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYC is not the whole country and the rubber room is defunt over two years. Never lasted that long.
> One instance of this and the"teachers can't be fired " myth is borrn.SMH
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html?_r=1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> New Jersey teachers once tenured cannot be fired save for a few very serious infractions and then a lengthy process must be endured before the teacher is discharged. Discharged with benefits and pension intact.
> I am guessing NJ is not the only state where such rules can be found.
> In any event, how you could take my post and turn it into a point on which to argue is a mystery.
> Have you EVER carried on a conversation without arguing or bickering? Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...


the problem is that you are not as informed as you believe


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> NYC is not the whole country and the rubber room is defunt over two years. Never lasted that long.
> One instance of this and the"teachers can't be fired " myth is borrn.SMH
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html?_r=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Jersey teachers once tenured cannot be fired save for a few very serious infractions and then a lengthy process must be endured before the teacher is discharged. Discharged with benefits and pension intact.
> I am guessing NJ is not the only state where such rules can be found.
> In any event, how you could take my post and turn it into a point on which to argue is a mystery.
> Have you EVER carried on a conversation without arguing or bickering? Jesus Christ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the problem is that you are not as informed as you believe
Click to expand...


Oh? If one of your students offered an answer to a question or as a response to an observation such as the one you just gave me you would...?


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> NYC is not the whole country and the rubber room is defunt over two years. Never lasted that long.
> One instance of this and the"teachers can't be fired " myth is borrn.SMH
> 
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/education/29rubber.html?_r=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Jersey teachers once tenured cannot be fired save for a few very serious infractions and then a lengthy process must be endured before the teacher is discharged. Discharged with benefits and pension intact.
> I am guessing NJ is not the only state where such rules can be found.
> In any event, how you could take my post and turn it into a point on which to argue is a mystery.
> Have you EVER carried on a conversation without arguing or bickering? Jesus Christ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the problem is that you are not as informed as you believe
Click to expand...


Should teachers get tenure?
Dues and Don&rsquo;ts | Teachers Union Facts
http://www.njea.org/news/2012/08/06/a win-win for students teachers and the public....\
Know your role.


----------



## squeeze berry

thereisnospoon said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> New Jersey teachers once tenured cannot be fired save for a few very serious infractions and then a lengthy process must be endured before the teacher is discharged. Discharged with benefits and pension intact.
> I am guessing NJ is not the only state where such rules can be found.
> In any event, how you could take my post and turn it into a point on which to argue is a mystery.
> Have you EVER carried on a conversation without arguing or bickering? Jesus Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the problem is that you are not as informed as you believe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Should teachers get tenure?
> Dues and Don&rsquo;ts | Teachers Union Facts
> http://www.njea.org/news/2012/08/06/a win-win for students teachers and the public....\
> Know your role.
Click to expand...


anyone can link to articles.


----------



## thereisnospoon

squeeze berry said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> 
> the problem is that you are not as informed as you believe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should teachers get tenure?
> Dues and Don&rsquo;ts | Teachers Union Facts
> http://www.njea.org/news/2012/08/06/a win-win for students teachers and the public....\
> Know your role.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> anyone can link to articles.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It kind of sucks when the facts leave you without a rebuttal, doesn't it?
Hey genius, it appears my links to the facts trump your one liner bullshit.
Case closed. End of story.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Nonsense, spoon.  Those facts are spun opinions.  Teachers associations of workers have their place in the system.  A slick business model for schools that place cost efficiency at the cost of learning is a greater loss because the students lose.


----------



## regent

Anyone know why states passed tenure laws?


----------



## Uncensored2008

regent said:


> Anyone know why states passed tenure laws?



Stupidity.

Tenure is a tradition in Universities that was designed to encourage academic freedom, allowing professors to explore topics that may not be popular with the public without fear that they would lose their positions.

Clearly, tenure is absurd when dealing with primary education.


----------



## regent

Uncensored2008 said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know why states passed tenure laws?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupidity.
> 
> Tenure is a tradition in Universities that was designed to encourage academic freedom, allowing professors to explore topics that may not be popular with the public without fear that they would lose their positions.
> 
> Clearly, tenure is absurd when dealing with primary education.
Click to expand...


So is tenure similar to civil service, and was civil service an answer to academic freedom?


----------



## Uncensored2008

regent said:


> So is tenure similar to civil service, and was civil service an answer to academic freedom?



So, you're under the influence of psychoactive drugs at this very moment, then?


----------



## Dr.Traveler

regent said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know why states passed tenure laws?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stupidity.
> 
> Tenure is a tradition in Universities that was designed to encourage academic freedom, allowing professors to explore topics that may not be popular with the public without fear that they would lose their positions.
> 
> Clearly, tenure is absurd when dealing with primary education.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So is tenure similar to civil service, and was civil service an answer to academic freedom?
Click to expand...


Civil Service, as well as tenure, is meant to insulate government employees from political considerations.  It's a benefit of the job.  Like any benefit, if you want qualified young people to take up the profession, you'll either have to offer the benefit or offer monetary recompense to make up for it.

The biggest issue I see in education right now is _why on Earth would anyone go into it at the primary education level?_  Between required lesson plans, paperwork, grading, and assigned extra curricular activities (which does happen now that teacher unions are weakened), the job is a 60-90 hour a week job.  With weakened tenure, there's no real job security.  You're vulnerable to lawsuits from parents.  The starting pay is a joke.  There is literally no community respect for the position and you're a constant bad guy for politicians looking to score points.  Who on Earth wants to go into the job?

It's little wonder the burn out rate is so high for teachers.


----------



## blimpo

Dr.Traveler said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupidity.
> 
> Tenure is a tradition in Universities that was designed to encourage academic freedom, allowing professors to explore topics that may not be popular with the public without fear that they would lose their positions.
> 
> Clearly, tenure is absurd when dealing with primary education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is tenure similar to civil service, and was civil service an answer to academic freedom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Civil Service, as well as tenure, is meant to insulate government employees from political considerations.  It's a benefit of the job.  Like any benefit, if you want qualified young people to take up the profession, you'll either have to offer the benefit or offer monetary recompense to make up for it.
> 
> The biggest issue I see in education right now is _why on Earth would anyone go into it at the primary education level?_  Between required lesson plans, paperwork, grading, and assigned extra curricular activities (which does happen now that teacher unions are weakened), the job is a 60-90 hour a week job.  With weakened tenure, there's no real job security.  You're vulnerable to lawsuits from parents.  The starting pay is a joke.  There is literally no community respect for the position and you're a constant bad guy for politicians looking to score points.  Who on Earth wants to go into the job?
> 
> It's little wonder the burn out rate is so high for teachers.
Click to expand...



Those are the reasons, plus a couple more-

Assigning grades with tenure separates the teacher from pressure applied by parents or coaches within the system to keep someone elligilbe. That commonly occurs.

Enforcing rules and assigning discipline is no place to be without tenure. The wrong people in a small community can have you axed in a heartbeat.

Without tenure, when a kid says, "I'll have my mom come in and she'll have your job," it no longer is an empty threat. The fact that the kid is right erases any chance of a career in this field. 
You are dealing with kids that have hormone spikes and mood swings every 5 minutes. They also don't have enough experience to handle anger.

Sound like your kind of job? I'm sure there'll be plenty of openings in the coming years..


----------



## regent

It seems the way to please the parents is to give out more A's, more compliments, make the parents feel good, after all they are they pay the teachers. Why do teachers seem to think the grades are theirs to give out like candy or they are giving money away? The grades are cost-free, and if a parent believes their child deserves a better grade why not? The end result would be a happier school, happier parents, happier adminsistration, happier community, happier kids and eventually happier teachers. Everybody happy, but the union thugs.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Nonsense, spoon.  Those facts are spun opinions.  Teachers associations of workers have their place in the system.  A slick business model for schools that place cost efficiency at the cost of learning is a greater loss because the students lose.



Umm, they are either facts or opinions. Cannot be both. 
You just don't like what you've read. Does not make it any less factual.
And please spare me the "it's for the kids" mantra.
In every contract impasse, teachers strike 100% of the time. They may say they are dedicated to the kids, but when it comes down to their wallets, unionized teachers are business people just like everyone else.
Looking out for number one.


----------



## thereisnospoon

regent said:


> Anyone know why states passed tenure laws?



Go back a few posts and read the links I posted.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Dr.Traveler said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupidity.
> 
> Tenure is a tradition in Universities that was designed to encourage academic freedom, allowing professors to explore topics that may not be popular with the public without fear that they would lose their positions.
> 
> Clearly, tenure is absurd when dealing with primary education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is tenure similar to civil service, and was civil service an answer to academic freedom?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Civil Service, as well as tenure, is meant to insulate government employees from political considerations.  It's a benefit of the job.  Like any benefit, if you want qualified young people to take up the profession, you'll either have to offer the benefit or offer monetary recompense to make up for it.
> 
> The biggest issue I see in education right now is _why on Earth would anyone go into it at the primary education level?_  Between required lesson plans, paperwork, grading, and assigned extra curricular activities (which does happen now that teacher unions are weakened), the job is a 60-90 hour a week job.  With weakened tenure, there's no real job security.  You're vulnerable to lawsuits from parents.  The starting pay is a joke.  There is literally no community respect for the position and you're a constant bad guy for politicians looking to score points.  Who on Earth wants to go into the job?
> 
> It's little wonder the burn out rate is so high for teachers.
Click to expand...


You are interviewing for the position of teacher union delegate?


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is tenure similar to civil service, and was civil service an answer to academic freedom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Civil Service, as well as tenure, is meant to insulate government employees from political considerations.  It's a benefit of the job.  Like any benefit, if you want qualified young people to take up the profession, you'll either have to offer the benefit or offer monetary recompense to make up for it.
> 
> The biggest issue I see in education right now is _why on Earth would anyone go into it at the primary education level?_  Between required lesson plans, paperwork, grading, and assigned extra curricular activities (which does happen now that teacher unions are weakened), the job is a 60-90 hour a week job.  With weakened tenure, there's no real job security.  You're vulnerable to lawsuits from parents.  The starting pay is a joke.  There is literally no community respect for the position and you're a constant bad guy for politicians looking to score points.  Who on Earth wants to go into the job?
> 
> It's little wonder the burn out rate is so high for teachers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the reasons, plus a couple more-
> 
> Assigning grades with tenure separates the teacher from pressure applied by parents or coaches within the system to keep someone elligilbe. That commonly occurs.
> 
> Enforcing rules and assigning discipline is no place to be without tenure. The wrong people in a small community can have you axed in a heartbeat.
> 
> Without tenure, when a kid says, "I'll have my mom come in and she'll have your job," it no longer is an empty threat. The fact that the kid is right erases any chance of a career in this field.
> You are dealing with kids that have hormone spikes and mood swings every 5 minutes. They also don't have enough experience to handle anger.
> 
> Sound like your kind of job? I'm sure there'll be plenty of openings in the coming years..
Click to expand...


Oh puhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze....Cry me a river.
You make it appear this type of thing is commonplace....Does it happen? Sure does.
Often? No.


----------



## blimpo

thereisnospoon said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Civil Service, as well as tenure, is meant to insulate government employees from political considerations.  It's a benefit of the job.  Like any benefit, if you want qualified young people to take up the profession, you'll either have to offer the benefit or offer monetary recompense to make up for it.
> 
> The biggest issue I see in education right now is _why on Earth would anyone go into it at the primary education level?_  Between required lesson plans, paperwork, grading, and assigned extra curricular activities (which does happen now that teacher unions are weakened), the job is a 60-90 hour a week job.  With weakened tenure, there's no real job security.  You're vulnerable to lawsuits from parents.  The starting pay is a joke.  There is literally no community respect for the position and you're a constant bad guy for politicians looking to score points.  Who on Earth wants to go into the job?
> 
> It's little wonder the burn out rate is so high for teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the reasons, plus a couple more-
> 
> Assigning grades with tenure separates the teacher from pressure applied by parents or coaches within the system to keep someone elligilbe. That commonly occurs.
> 
> Enforcing rules and assigning discipline is no place to be without tenure. The wrong people in a small community can have you axed in a heartbeat.
> 
> Without tenure, when a kid says, "I'll have my mom come in and she'll have your job," it no longer is an empty threat. The fact that the kid is right erases any chance of a career in this field.
> You are dealing with kids that have hormone spikes and mood swings every 5 minutes. They also don't have enough experience to handle anger.
> 
> Sound like your kind of job? I'm sure there'll be plenty of openings in the coming years..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh puhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze....Cry me a river.
> You make it appear this type of thing is commonplace....Does it happen? Sure does.
> Often? No.
Click to expand...



Kids don't go home and tattle stupid untrue stuff?
Parents don't charge in raising hell about something that didn't occur?
Kids don't have hormone spikes and mood swings?
I can name many instances where pressure kept an F off an athlete's report card.
Why do these kids (athletes) pass classes and then bomb on ECAs, SATs, and ACTs?

If it happens at all it's too much...

I'm glad you have probably never taught. You'd have had one hell of a time dealing with reality.


----------



## Dr.Traveler

thereisnospoon said:


> You are interviewing for the position of teacher union delegate?



You have a meaningful response?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Facts can be spun into one's opinion, and that is what you are doing.

You are right.  I value teachers more than you, and I value teachers' associations, who are the bulwark between good learning and the forces of ignorance.

No, teachers do not strike 100% of the time during confronation.  That is silly to say that.

Yup, teachers are concerned about their wallets, just like you and me, but the fact remains that too many teachers, in numbers, are more concerned about the kids' education than are the children's parents.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense, spoon.  Those facts are spun opinions.  Teachers associations of workers have their place in the system.  A slick business model for schools that place cost efficiency at the cost of learning is a greater loss because the students lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, they are either facts or opinions. Cannot be both.
> You just don't like what you've read. Does not make it any less factual.
> And please spare me the "it's for the kids" mantra.
> In every contract impasse, teachers strike 100% of the time. They may say they are dedicated to the kids, but when it comes down to their wallets, unionized teachers are business people just like everyone else.
> Looking out for number one.
Click to expand...


----------



## PoliticalChic

Lakhota said:


> _By Deanna Pan_
> 
> Slave masters were nice, the KKK is A-OK, and the Great Depression is a liberal fantasy. Thanks, Gov. Jindal!
> 
> Thanks to a new law privatizing public education in Louisiana, Bible-based curriculum can now indoctrinate young, pliant minds with the good news of the Lord&#8212;all on the state taxpayers' dime.
> 
> Under Gov. Bobby Jindal's voucher program, considered the most sweeping in the country, Louisiana is poised to spend tens of millions of dollars to help poor and middle-class students from the state's notoriously terrible public schools receive a private education. While the governor's plan sounds great in the glittery parlance of the state's PR machine, the program is rife with accountability problems that actually haven't been solved by the new standards the Louisiana Department of Education adopted two weeks ago.
> 
> For one, of the 119 (mostly Christian) participating schools, Zack Kopplin, a gutsy college sophomore who's taken to Change.org to stonewall the program, has identified at least 19 that teach or champion creationist nonscience and will rake in nearly $4 million in public funding from the initial round of voucher designations.
> 
> Many of these schools, Kopplin notes, rely on Pensacola-based A Beka Book curriculum or Bob Jones University Press textbooks to teach their pupils Bible-based "facts," such as the existence of Nessie the Loch Ness Monster and all sorts of pseudoscience that researcher Rachel Tabachnick and writer Thomas Vinciguerra have thankfully pored over so the rest of world doesn't have to.
> 
> Here are some of my favorite lessons:
> 
> *1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out:* "Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years."&#8212;Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More holy shit stuff to make sane people cringe: 14 Wacky "Facts" Kids Will Learn in Louisiana's Voucher Schools | Mother Jones
Click to expand...




"The Left says of the Right, &#8220;You fools, it is demonstrable that dinosaurs lived one hundred million years ago, I can prove it to you, how can you say the earth was created in 4000BCE?&#8221;  

But this supposed intransigence on the part of the Religious Right is far less detrimental to the health of the body politic than *the Left&#8217;s love affair with Marxism, Socialism, Racialism, the Command Economy, all of which have been proven via one hundred years of evidence shows only shortages, despotism and murder.*"
David Mamet: "The Secret Knowledge: On the Dismantling of American Culture."


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> Facts can be spun into one's opinion, and that is what you are doing.
> 
> You are right.  I value teachers more than you, and I value teachers' associations, who are the bulwark between good learning and the forces of ignorance.
> 
> No, teachers do not strike 100% of the time during confronation.  That is silly to say that.
> 
> Yup, teachers are concerned about their wallets, just like you and me, but the fact remains that too many teachers, in numbers, are more concerned about the kids' education than are the children's parents.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense, spoon.  Those facts are spun opinions.  Teachers associations of workers have their place in the system.  A slick business model for schools that place cost efficiency at the cost of learning is a greater loss because the students lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, they are either facts or opinions. Cannot be both.
> You just don't like what you've read. Does not make it any less factual.
> And please spare me the "it's for the kids" mantra.
> In every contract impasse, teachers strike 100% of the time. They may say they are dedicated to the kids, but when it comes down to their wallets, unionized teachers are business people just like everyone else.
> Looking out for number one.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Facts are facts there Sunshine. Deal with it.
As for the rest of your retort. Try reading the entire post the way it was written. Not in the way you interpret it.


----------



## thereisnospoon

blimpo said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is tenure similar to civil service, and was civil service an answer to academic freedom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Civil Service, as well as tenure, is meant to insulate government employees from political considerations.  It's a benefit of the job.  Like any benefit, if you want qualified young people to take up the profession, you'll either have to offer the benefit or offer monetary recompense to make up for it.
> 
> The biggest issue I see in education right now is _why on Earth would anyone go into it at the primary education level?_  Between required lesson plans, paperwork, grading, and assigned extra curricular activities (which does happen now that teacher unions are weakened), the job is a 60-90 hour a week job.  With weakened tenure, there's no real job security.  You're vulnerable to lawsuits from parents.  The starting pay is a joke.  There is literally no community respect for the position and you're a constant bad guy for politicians looking to score points.  Who on Earth wants to go into the job?
> 
> It's little wonder the burn out rate is so high for teachers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those are the reasons, plus a couple more-
> 
> Assigning grades with tenure separates the teacher from pressure applied by parents or coaches within the system to keep someone elligilbe. That commonly occurs.
> 
> Enforcing rules and assigning discipline is no place to be without tenure. The wrong people in a small community can have you axed in a heartbeat.
> 
> Without tenure, when a kid says, "I'll have my mom come in and she'll have your job," it no longer is an empty threat. The fact that the kid is right erases any chance of a career in this field.
> You are dealing with kids that have hormone spikes and mood swings every 5 minutes. They also don't have enough experience to handle anger.
> 
> Sound like your kind of job? I'm sure there'll be plenty of openings in the coming years..
Click to expand...

Earlier in this thread I stated there must be a balance to the one size fits all concept of tenure.
Balance. Understand?


----------



## JakeStarkey

You have no facts, sunshine. I wrote to your post, and if you don't like the answer, then look at your post, not my answer, because it was correct.



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Facts can be spun into one's opinion, and that is what you are doing.
> 
> You are right.  I value teachers more than you, and I value teachers' associations, who are the bulwark between good learning and the forces of ignorance.
> 
> No, teachers do not strike 100% of the time during confronation.  That is silly to say that.
> 
> Yup, teachers are concerned about their wallets, just like you and me, but the fact remains that too many teachers, in numbers, are more concerned about the kids' education than are the children's parents.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, they are either facts or opinions. Cannot be both.
> You just don't like what you've read. Does not make it any less factual.
> And please spare me the "it's for the kids" mantra.
> In every contract impasse, teachers strike 100% of the time. They may say they are dedicated to the kids, but when it comes down to their wallets, unionized teachers are business people just like everyone else.
> Looking out for number one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are facts there Sunshine. Deal with it.
> As for the rest of your retort. Try reading the entire post the way it was written. Not in the way you interpret it.
Click to expand...


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> You have no facts, sunshine. I wrote to your post, and if you don't like the answer, then look at your post, not my answer, because it was correct.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Facts can be spun into one's opinion, and that is what you are doing.
> 
> You are right.  I value teachers more than you, and I value teachers' associations, who are the bulwark between good learning and the forces of ignorance.
> 
> No, teachers do not strike 100% of the time during confronation.  That is silly to say that.
> 
> Yup, teachers are concerned about their wallets, just like you and me, but the fact remains that too many teachers, in numbers, are more concerned about the kids' education than are the children's parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facts are facts there Sunshine. Deal with it.
> As for the rest of your retort. Try reading the entire post the way it was written. Not in the way you interpret it.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Oy vay....First my posts contained facts that are spun into opinions( your words). Now the posts contain no facts at all.
You are grasping at straws.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Dr.Traveler said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are interviewing for the position of teacher union delegate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a meaningful response?
Click to expand...


Yeah..Here it is...Stick to studying mathematics. Political debate is not your forte.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Your opinionated posts are not facts.  Simple, spoon.  Right to the subject.

We will do this all day if you wish and you will continue to look stupid. 



thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no facts, sunshine. I wrote to your post, and if you don't like the answer, then look at your post, not my answer, because it was correct.
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Facts are facts there Sunshine. Deal with it.
> As for the rest of your retort. Try reading the entire post the way it was written. Not in the way you interpret it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oy vay....First my posts contained facts that are spun into opinions( your words). Now the posts contain no facts at all.
> You are grasping at straws.
Click to expand...


----------



## JakeStarkey

And not yours, as you quickly found out.

But . . . you keep trying.

But . . . like Billy Beane facing major league pitching . . . you will never succeed.



thereisnospoon said:


> Dr.Traveler said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are interviewing for the position of teacher union delegate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a meaningful response?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah..Here it is...Stick to studying mathematics. Political debate is not your forte.
Click to expand...


----------

