# 100,000,000 Question Marks



## Flanders (Sep 4, 2014)

*In 2007 I posted a message that was very critical of the DESIGN, —— I repeat “THE DESIGN” —— of the Vietnam War Memorial. This excerpt from an article by Duncan Maxwell Anderson said it all for me: * 


> What these modern war memorials have in common with each other is nothing. They portray nothingness. They have no people in them, never mind men carrying guns or swords, statues of Winged Victory, or even doves of peace. Just death and names -- grief without glory.
> 
> November 11, 2007
> Monuments to Wimpdom
> ...


*I was always uncomfortable with the design of the Vietnam War Memorial but never said anything against it.  I felt that any criticism would be twisted by Lefties into a slur against the men and women whose names appear on the “Wall.”  The anti-Vietnam War traitors defending America’s fallen heroes because of something I said would have been more than I can bear. Unfortunately I was right. Whenever I broached the topic in the following years the Left’s perpetually outraged morality had a field day criticizing my objections.  

Parenthetically, since 2007, the worst people in our society have acquired more political power than they ever had since they worked so hard to give America’s enemy in Vietnam a victory at any cost.

Democrat contempt for the thousands who died in Vietnam, and, indeed, contempt for most men and women who serve in the military for this country was not a campaign issue in 2008, or in 2010, or in 2012. It should have been because the Democrats who came to power in 2008 are the very people who despise the military unless it can be used to fight for the United Nations. Much to my delight, and astonishment, Bill O’Reilly seems to be getting the message. Move the cursor tp 2:15 to hear what I mean:* 


> The O Reilly Factor Bill O Reilly Fox News


*There is a subliminal political message involved in Anderson’s “grief without glory” aspect of the Vietnam War Memorial’s design.  Traditional designs honor the sacrifice as well as those who made it. The Vietnam War Memorial is different in that the dead are listed, but the message is that their sacrifice was a waste. How many visiting the Wall remember that the Vietnam War was fought against Communism? That was not a waste.   

The political message incorporated in the Vietnam War Memorial also justifies the anti-Vietnam War demonstrations by American Communists who did not, and do not, care one iota about the men and women who gave their lives fighting against Communism. 

Peaceniks claim that the Wall’s design is an anti-war statement. Their message is that the men and woman listed on the Wall would be anti-war liberals  were they still alive. That’s an insult to those who knowingly sacrificed their lives fighting against Communist expansion in Southeast Asia.

There is a danger inherent for the Left in their anti-war rhetoric whenever Communism is threatened. All-encompassing anti-war messages must include anti-self-defense wars. That line of reasoning could easily grow to include anti-revolution sentiments. Then where would Communists be? 

NOTE: I’ve seen one small monument reminding people of the two million Christian Armenians slaughtered by Turkish Muslims in the waning days of the Ottoman Empire. There are probably more monuments in this country built to honor the victims of totalitarian government that I have not seen. If so, they are erected with private donations. There is no national monument reminding future generations of the horrors inflicted on mankind by government.  

Somebody agrees with me  

Many years ago I said that I would like to see a national monument dedicated to the tens of millions who were murdered by totalitarian governments in the last century alone. Perhaps a national day of remembrance, too.*


> August 25, 2014
> Never forget: A memorial to Communism's 100 million dead
> By Rick Moran
> 
> Blog Never forget A memorial to Communism s 100 million dead


*Such a monument copying the design of the Vietnam War Memorial would be acceptable because there is no glory in dying a victim. A monument containing all of the names murdered by their own government would dwarf the Great Wall of China.*





*Obviously, the names of more than 100,000,000 million murdered will never be known; so perhaps a wall depicting 100,000,000 plus question marks will suffice.  

Lady Liberty

I have always been critical of that foul plaque containing The New Colossus in the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. See this thread for a few comments on the topic:* 


> Hooray For Schlafly US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


*Finally, here’s an update on Ike’s memorial: * 


> “This memorial is effectively dead. This design will never get built,” says Shubow. “The challenge for opponents is: How do you kill a zombie?”
> 
> U.S. News
> 09.03.14
> ...


*For those who are interested in learning how national disgraces are born, you can view some pictures and read some background about the Eisenhower Memorial in this thread:*


> Memorials Hoodies Peckers US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


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## Flanders (Sep 11, 2014)

*I wonder if the Russians got the idea from the Vietnam War Memorial:*





   Valentina Savelyeva spent her life trying to find out about her father​


> Now her father's name, TT Ponomarev, has been inscribed long with 17,000 other new names on a section of the memorial that has been added for the 70th anniversary.
> 
> "They have only started putting up these plaques now," she complained, the tears running down her cheeks.
> 
> ...


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## jwoodie (Sep 23, 2014)

History is written by the (political) victors.


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## Mad Scientist (Sep 23, 2014)

I don't like the Vietnam Memorial either. It's like walking into a grave.


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## Flanders (Jun 29, 2015)

*Senator Pat Roberts is hanging tough for the wrong thing. Now if only Republicans would hang in there to stop destructive Democrat legislation:*

A lone senator is still pursuing the construction of a controversial memorial to the 34th president despite a lack of support from his fellow Republicans and the family of Dwight Eisenhower.​
Senator Pat Roberts (R., Kan.) says he was disappointed that the Senate Interior Appropriations Subcommittee reduced construction funding for the monument to zero last week, . . .

Senator Alone In Eisenhower Memorial Fight
Critics: Pat Roberts ‘delusional,’ has left Kansas for ‘the land of Oz’
BY: Thomas Novelly
June 29, 2015 4:00 pm

Senator Alone In Eisenhower Memorial Fight Washington Free Beacon​


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## Thunderbird (Jun 29, 2015)

We should never forget the millions killed by Communist dictators.  We should never forget the millions killed by the Young Turks.


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## konradv (Jul 1, 2015)

Mad Scientist said:


> I don't like the Vietnam Memorial either. It's like walking into a grave.


The wall is only part of the memorial.

The Three Soldiers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## regent (Jul 1, 2015)

Yeah a war memorial is supposed to be a general riding on a horse.


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## Flanders (Jul 1, 2015)

konradv said:


> The wall is only part of the memorial.


*To konradv: Three Soldiers represents heroism. The Vietnam Wall represents a war that was fought to stop the spread of Communism, but media gives the Wall the publicity because it represents liberal's hatred of the Vietnam War.

The phonies who love war when it is fought for Communism pretend they care about the men and women who fought and died fighting against Communism in SE Asia.  If the U.S. military was fighting FOR Communism do you honestly believe that  that piece of garbage in the White House would lead the country to defeat as he is doing in the war against Islam?

This book and movie must have made you and your kind more sick with hatred than usual:*

“Ride the Thunder” main characters Marine legend John Ripley and Vietnamese hero, Major Le Ba Binh

   “I’ve been waiting 40 years for this film!” was a common refrain among the Vietnam War veterans and the South Vietnamese Americans – most with tears streaming down their faces – who gathered to witness their powerful story finally making it onto the big screen at the wildly popular premiere of “Ride the Thunder: A Vietnam War Story of Victory and Betrayal” – and now the cutting-edge film is expanding with showings in at least four states in May.

   As WND reported, the vividly accurate film about one of the most shockingly misunderstood wars in American history took Westminster, California, by storm when it premiered in from March 27 to April 2, selling more than $30,000 in tickets in just three days during its limited release at a single movie theater. The film soared to No. 1 in the nation for box office revenue from March 27-29 on a per-theater basis.

Vietnam War story takes America by storm
       Posted By Chelsea Schilling On 05/17/2015 @ 7:53 pm

Vietnam War story takes America by storm​
*Anybody interested in learning more about the real Vietnam War and how Lefties still portray it see this thread:*

Watch Read Learn US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


regent said:


> Yeah a war memorial is supposed to be a general riding on a horse.


*To regent: You obviously love grief without glory:*

From the OP
   What these modern war memorials have in common with each other is nothing. They portray nothingness. They have no people in them, never mind men carrying guns or swords, statues of Winged Victory, or even doves of peace. Just death and names -- grief without glory.​


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## konradv (Jul 1, 2015)

Flanders said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> > The wall is only part of the memorial.
> ...


What was to love about the Vietnam War?  Hatred of war is a given for most people.  You're distracting from my message which was that the wall is only part of the memorial, PERIOD!


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## Flanders (Nov 3, 2015)

*Of all the WWII generals Eisenhower is the only one being honored with a major memorial. The problem is: The damn thing is a national disgrace:*

July 25, 2014
   Saving General Eisenhower
   By Andrew E. Harrod

Articles: Saving General Eisenhower​
*See this thread for more details:*

Memorials, Hoodies, & Peckers | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

*Happy to report that veterans might have success in stopping a monstrosity:*



http://s1.freebeacon.com/up/2015/11/Eisenhower-Memorial.jpg

Dwarfing the memorial’s statuary is a 400-foot-long steel tapestry “artfully woven and welded” to depict a grey landscape from Eisenhower’s hometown of Abilene, Kansas. The steel mesh is held aloft by unadorned limestone columns eight stories tall and 10 feet in diameter.

   Much of the criticism directed at Gehry’s design has focused on its steel screens and columns, which are a departure from other memorials in the D.C. area. The backdrop, the group said, is inappropriate for the memorial of a legendarily modest subject.

   Justin Shubow, president of the National Civic Art Society and a leading critic of Gehry’s design, said that the bare trees depicted on the steel tapestry suggest “permanent winter—a bad allegory” for Eisenhower’s life. The tapestry, Shubow added, is larger than the Hollywood sign in Los Angeles.

Veterans Group Calls for New Design of Eisenhower Memorial
       Pressure grows to reject Frank Gehry’s design, hold new comp
       BY: Blake Seitz  
       November 3, 2015 5:00 am

Veterans Group Calls for New Design of Eisenhower Memorial​


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## Thunderbird (Nov 3, 2015)

Wow that is ugly and inappropriate.


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## Steven_R (Nov 6, 2015)

I don't see what the problem is except that the Vietnam War Memorial humanizes the dead Americans. It isn't just some statue of a general atop a horse, or some archway, or some abstract piece of art. Each name on that memorial was an actual person, cut down in a war none of them chose to start, and each of whom had dreams, hopes, fears, loved ones left behind, and someone who will mourn their loss forever.

I used to go along with the war is great and glorious and a good time will be had by all mindset when I was much younger, but now I'm at the point where I can see the necessity of war at times, but still think it is stupid and wasteful and should be avoided if at all possible. If it can't be, let the old men and ideologues who want to start wars fight them and let the average Joe just live out his life in peace.


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## Flanders (Nov 6, 2015)

Steven_R said:


> I don't see what the problem is except that the Vietnam War Memorial humanizes the dead Americans.


*To Steven_R: The Vietnam Wall is a political statement that is an insult to the men and women who gave their lives fighting Communism. Note that the anti-war Left never admitted they were demonstrating for Communism, To this day American Communists claim they opposed an unjust war. 

The worst of it is that the design implies that those men and women did not know what they were fighting against. Not a one of them agreed to use their sacrifice for anti-America propaganda. The truth is: *

Author Tom Wolfe called it “a tribute to [anti-war activist] Jane Fonda,” Vietnam veteran Jim Webb, a future U.S. Senator, referred to it as “a nihilistic slab of stone,” and political commentator Pat Buchanan accused one of the design judges of being a communist. Some critics even resorted to racially insulting Lin, the daughter of Chinese immigrants. Eventually, a compromise was reached—against Lin’s wishes—under which a U.S. flag and a statue of three servicemen were dedicated near the wall in 1984.

6 Things You May Not Know About the Vietnam Veterans Memorial - History in the Headlines​


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## Thunderbird (Nov 7, 2015)

Steven_R said:


> I don't see what the problem is except that the Vietnam War Memorial humanizes the dead Americans. It isn't just some statue of a general atop a horse, or some archway, or some abstract piece of art. Each name on that memorial was an actual person, cut down in a war none of them chose to start, and each of whom had dreams, hopes, fears, loved ones left behind, and someone who will mourn their loss forever.
> 
> I used to go along with the war is great and glorious and a good time will be had by all mindset when I was much younger, but now I'm at the point where I can see the necessity of war at times, but still think it is stupid and wasteful and should be avoided if at all possible. If it can't be, let the old men and ideologues who want to start wars fight them and let the average Joe just live out his life in peace.


I think you are missing the point. Don't you think fighting Communism, which killed about 94 million people, was a worthy cause?  If you are saying war is brutal or that Johnson was a poor strategist I don't disagree, but people who died fighting totalitarian Communism died in a noble cause.


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## Thunderbird (Nov 7, 2015)

Frank Gehry is responsible for a lot of ugly buildings.

Here's one:





Looks like something thrown together by a hyperactive toddler.


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## Flanders (Nov 7, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Looks like something thrown together by a hyperactive toddler.


*To Thunderbird: It looks like a bird’s-eye view of a scrap yard.*


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## Flanders (Nov 28, 2015)

*This is a great World War One memorial: *





Liberty Memorial in Kansas City, Missouri​
http://s3.freebeacon.com/up/2015/11/Liberty-Memorial.jpg

*Let’s all hope that liberalism’s ideology will not dominate the design of a WW I memorial in the hopper for Washington as it did with the Vietnam War Memorial and Ike’s:* 

Today history is repeating itself, as another memorial commission—for the Eisenhower—is locked in a bitter war of attrition with Congress over funding. The outlook for a national World War I memorial in the nation’s capital is brighter. Spurred by the death of the last American veteran of World War I, Frank Buckles, in 2011, plans are underway to complete a memorial by November 11, 2018, the 100 year anniversary of the war’s end. An open design competition has already concluded. Five finalists have been selected.​
The Battle for America’s World War One Memorial
       Essay: A design competition with high moral stakes
       BY: Blake Seitz  
       November 28, 2015 5:00 am

The Battle for America’s World War One Memorial​


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## regent (Nov 28, 2015)

Thunderbird said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see what the problem is except that the Vietnam War Memorial humanizes the dead Americans. It isn't just some statue of a general atop a horse, or some archway, or some abstract piece of art. Each name on that memorial was an actual person, cut down in a war none of them chose to start, and each of whom had dreams, hopes, fears, loved ones left behind, and someone who will mourn their loss forever.
> ...


Fighting communism may have been a noble cause but what does it have to do with Vietnam? At the end of WWII when Ho Chi Minh asked the US for help to be free of colonization as in our own Declaration of Independence we made the  decision to help the French keep their colony.


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## Flanders (Nov 28, 2015)

regent said:


> Fighting communism may have been a noble cause but what does it have to do with Vietnam? At the end of WWII when Ho Chi Minh asked the US for help to be free of colonization as in our own Declaration of Independence


*To regent: I see you are still pushing the sewer rat’s brand of Communism:*

All I wanted to do last week was enjoy my vacation. Instead, I was assaulted by another breathtaking statement from the president of the United States, provided courtesy of an official White House press release. The occasion was a July 25 meeting between President Obama and the leader of communist Vietnam. Obama stated: “President Sang shared with me a copy of a letter sent by Ho Chi Minh to Harry Truman. And we discussed the fact that Ho Chi Minh was actually inspired by the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and the words of Thomas Jefferson.”

   This, of course, is utter nonsense. Ho Chi Minh was a committed Marxist-Leninist revolutionary who cut his teeth at Moscow’s Lenin School. He became one of the Soviet Comintern’s most successful agents. Among the testimonies to his efforts are the countless boat people from Vietnam who now live in America (many of whom voted for Obama).

   But not only is Obama’s statement nonsense; it’s also the product of communist propaganda.

   In 2010, I published a book called Dupes: How America’s Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century. There, I shared numerous lines cooked up by Communist Party USA (CPUSA) to dupe liberals. One of them was precisely the line Obama echoed on July 25. CPUSA and its mouthpieces regularly compared Ho Chi Minh to the American Founders, claiming he was fighting for the ideas not of the Bolshevik Revolution but of the American Revolution. This line was employed constantly, and it worked magically with wide-eyed liberals. In Dupes, I gave several examples, including Dr. Benjamin Spock, a leftist dupe easily manipulated by American communists.

Ho Chi Minh, Obama’s Freedom Fighter
       By Paul Kengor on 8.7.13 @ 6:08AM
       Our president echoes the Party line on Vietnam.

Ho Chi Minh, Obama's Freedom Fighter​


regent said:


> we made the decision to help the French keep their colony.


*To regent: Had the French won at Dien Bien Phu this country would not have had to fight the Vietnam War to stop Communism: *

​
*Incidentally, Ho Chi Minh died in 1969 —— after the Vietnam War was well underway. So how come Communists did not adopt America’s founding liberties after they won the war?

And in case you did not notice it, Communists love to associate their ideology with America’s freedoms. Saul Alinsky in his novel  Reveille for Radicals uses the word radicals when he means Communists:*

The American Radicals were in the colonies grimly forcing the addition of the Bill of Rights to our Constitution. _Saul Alinsky_​*Does anybody really believe that Communists would force liberty on anyone? *


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## regent (Nov 28, 2015)

Did a war over the domino analogy ever have to take place? Could America have extended a helping hand for Vietnam's freedom instead of supporting the colonization practice of the French? Britain recognized that it had to give up many colonies and it seems as if we missed a chance to support our own Declaration philosophy.


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## Thunderbird (Nov 28, 2015)

regent said:


> Thunderbird said:
> 
> 
> > Steven_R said:
> ...


Ho Chi Minh had a long record of devotion to Communism dating back to the 1920s.  Unfortunately the U.S. has helped a number of Communist states.

Some information about Ho Chi Minh's atrocities: The Blood-Red Hands of Ho Chi Minh


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## Flanders (Nov 29, 2015)

regent said:


> Did a war over the domino analogy ever have to take place? Could America have extended a helping hand for Vietnam's freedom instead of supporting the colonization practice of the French? Britain recognized that it had to give up many colonies and it seems as if we missed a chance to support our own Declaration philosophy.


*To regent: You better do some research before you talk about European colonies. 

You obviously believe that colonies were a great evil; so let me remind you that Soviet Union satellites were nothing more than contiguous colonies. Ditto China’s satellites/colonies.

NOTE: Colonies gaining independence from a foreign power would have been a good thing if they all turned out like America in its first hundred or so years. Unfortunately, independence in the modern world means Communism and Islamic theocracies labeled democracies 
*
*BRIEFLY*
*
At the end of WWII the State Department was committed to dismantling colonial empires. By the time Eisenhower took office, State Department foreign policy extended to toppling dictators in favor of Muslim extremists. The Shah of Iran was the first casualty; Muammar Gaddifi was more recent. Removing Syria’s Assad is not working out so well.   

State Department people implementing disastrous policies were either Communists themselves, or they were so blinded by Communism (useful idiots) they operated on the belief that Communism was better than European empires around the globe. America’s defeat in Vietnam was State Department’s greatest victory. COMMUNISM WON —— WHILE KOREA ENDED IN A DRAW. 

Just to set the record straight America sent no troops to fight with the French in Vietnam. Ike did provide some military aid after it was too late. Had the French held Vietnam a transition to independence would have come about gradually. Instead, the result moved every Communist country closer to Communist China than they are to the West.  

Note that China was not a colony. Communist China came about through violent revolution as did Communism in Czarist Russia. 

State Department’s policy centered on a global government administered by the United Nations. In the beginning there was one Communist country on the UN Security Council, the USSR. Then there were two when Communist China was seated in 1971. Russian Communists are now closer to Communist China than it was when Russia was the USSR. 

In every instance, Communist governments should have been exterminated the minute they came to power.

Finally, Democrats always help Communist governments under the guise of calling for  democracy, while there is not one movement anywhere in the world that is advocating a limited government similar to the one that made America great. Indeed, Democrats oppose limited government, and they sure as hell do not defend the Constitution. In fact, Democrats are incrementally dismantling the original Bill of Rights as they move the country towards totalitarian Communism.  *


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## regent (Nov 29, 2015)

Flanders said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > Did a war over the domino analogy ever have to take place? Could America have extended a helping hand for Vietnam's freedom instead of supporting the colonization practice of the French? Britain recognized that it had to give up many colonies and it seems as if we missed a chance to support our own Declaration philosophy.
> ...


So if only America had offered limited government to the world's colonies, today those former colonies would be in our corner.


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## Flanders (Nov 30, 2015)

regent said:


> So if only America had offered limited government to the world's colonies, today those former colonies would be in our corner.


*To regent: It is not America’s responsibility to offer anything to foreign countries, and certainly not democracy which is a mass movement embracing all of the evils Eric Hoffer laid out in The True Believer. America’s founders had no use for democracy. This is the foreign policy that served this country well until the busybodies stuck their goddamned noses into every foreign country’s business:* 

Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none. _Thomas Jefferson_, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801​


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## regent (Dec 1, 2015)

Flanders said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > So if only America had offered limited government to the world's colonies, today those former colonies would be in our corner.
> ...


True, some of the framers were afraid of democracy, yet some  believed, as Madison, that it could be done because faction would cancel faction. Most of the framers also believed that the people had to be behind the new nation, not a king, and so democracy was added to the Constitution: "We the people." States were given the power to allow citizens to vote for the House at least and decide what offices in their states were to be voted on. Democracy gradually became more accepted and today look at the people added to the voter roles since 1789, and we now vote the president's electors and House and Senate.  It was the age of enlightenment and we are still working on the enlightenment part. I doubt if Americans would take kindly to America giving up democracy despite all the problems that go with that type of government.


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## whitehall (Dec 1, 2015)

There was a time when Military memorials featured statues depicting heroic battles or figures that made you feel proud. To me the Korean War monument looks like a lost  platoon on the way to the mess hall and the three Soldiers in the Vietnam memorial (I wonder if Christopher Walken modeled for the white guy) leave you wondering if it's raining. Bar none, the Iwo Jima statue is the greatest memorial ever done for any conflict.


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## Flanders (Dec 2, 2015)

regent said:


> True, some of the framers were afraid of democracy,


*To regent: Not true. They correctly distrusted democracy for intellectual reasons. Throughout history democracy has been the parasite’s  preferred form of government.*


regent said:


> democracy was added to the Constitution: "We the people."


*To regent: You will need a lot help to sell that one. There is no proof, implied or stated, that men who had no use for democracy would begin their constitution with a plug for democracy.*


regent said:


> Democracy gradually became more accepted and today look at the people added to the voter roles since 1789,


*To regent: Democracy is a movement being funded by the global government crowd. The Electoral College stands in its way:*

Article II, Section 1, Clause 3​
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.​*At the very least learn how it works:*

Scheme to neutralize 36 states' votes advances
   Lawmakers line up behind plan that dumps Electoral College without constitutional amendment
   Published: 04/09/2014 at 8:43 PM
   by Aaron Klein

Scheme to neutralize 36 states’ votes advances

*XXXXX*​
   Al Gore calls for an end to the Electoral College
   By Mario Trujillo - 08/31/12 03:36 PM EDT

Al Gore calls for an end to the Electoral College 

*XXXXX*​
   Illegal Immigrants Could Elect Hillary
   How noncitizens decrease Republican chances of winning the White House next year.
   By Paul Goldman and Mark J. Rozell
   October 03, 2015

Illegal Immigrants Could Elect Hillary​


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## regent (Dec 2, 2015)

Flanders said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > True, some of the framers were afraid of democracy,
> ...


One only needs to look at our past and realize the changes that have taken place in our democratic way of life. If you prefer to not look at our history just look at the Constitutional amendments for a clue. Who elects the electors?


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## Steven_R (Dec 2, 2015)

whitehall said:


> There was a time when Military memorials featured statues depicting heroic battles or figures that made you feel proud. To me the Korean War monument looks like a lost  platoon on the way to the mess hall and the three Soldiers in the Vietnam memorial (I wonder if Christopher Walken modeled for the white guy) leave you wondering if it's raining. Bar none, the Iwo Jima statue is the greatest memorial ever done for any conflict.



Maybe that was the whole intention of those memorials. WW2 and the Civil War had all those great memorials and the wars did what they did, but with Korea and Vietnam it's really very easy for everyone from the soldiers to the taxpayers to the families of the dead, wounded, and missing to ask "what the hell was the point?" We didn't really want to fight, certainly didn't fight to win, and we accomplished nothing except spending a crap ton of money and almost 60,000 dead American kids in each of those wars.

Why shouldn't our memorials remind us of the mistakes as well as the glories?


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## Flanders (Dec 2, 2015)

regent said:


> One only needs to look at our past and realize the changes that have taken place in our democratic way of life.


*To regent: Your democratic way of life means democracy. Democracy is always going towards something worse; never towards liberty. Changing the country from a free people in a Republic, to democracy, to a totalitarian government is nothing to brag about.  Note the democracy movement’s incrementalism:*

Democracy is the road to socialism.  _Karl Marx_

   The goal of socialism is communism. _Vladimir Lenin _​


regent said:


> If you prefer to not look at our history just look at the Constitutional amendments for a clue.


*To regent: Try this clue.

The original Bill of Rights was ratified to protect a free people from government abuse. The First and Second Amendments specifically. Later amendments became a government bill of rights —— most notably the XVI and XVII Amendments. *


regent said:


> Who elects the electors?


*To regent: Welfare state parasites in many congressional districts. It will only improve for  Americans when American are the only citizens counted in the 2020 census and every census thereafter. That is not as good as deporting all of the illegals, but it is a good start if you are American.

Incidentally, NOT counting illegal aliens in the census is far more important to Americans than is stopping Democratic party registration schemes. Every black American who wants to vote can vote; so why is Clinton bullshitting black Americans about who she wants to vote?  It seems that Democrats want to register illegal alien as much as they want to register every gun:*

“I thought we’d solved that problem,” Clinton said about voting access. “Unfortunately, there is mischief afoot. Some people are just determined to keep other Americans from voting.”

   Clinton cited the closing of some DMV offices in Alabama, as part of necessary budget cuts, as a vote-suppressing plot, despite evidence to the contrary.

Hillary Clinton To Black Audience: ‘There Is Mischief Afoot’ With Voter ID Laws
       by Patrick Howley
       1 Dec 2015

Hillary Clinton To Black Audience: 'There Is Mischief Afoot' With Voter ID Laws - Breitbart​


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## regent (Dec 2, 2015)

One comment at a time would help. To answer your first: I don't believe Karl Marx's predictions, nor his communism. If you do, explain why Marx's dialectical materialism never came to pass, or why the US nor England never went communistic even with degrees of socialism?  
The USSR was composed of Republics.
With the Constitution, our second government, our framers created a democratic/republic and defined neither term in the Constitution.  The democracy part has since been enlarged since that time. As you may know, the Constitution was a liberal document, created in the Age of Enlightenment.
Next.


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## Flanders (Dec 2, 2015)

regent said:


> One comment at a time would help. To answer your first: I don't believe Karl Marx's predictions, nor his communism. If you do, explain why Marx's dialectical materialism never came to pass, or why the US nor England never went communistic even with degrees of socialism?
> The USSR was composed of Republics.
> With the Constitution, our second government, our framers created a democratic/republic and defined neither term in the Constitution.  The democracy part has since been enlarged since that time. As you may know, the Constitution was a liberal document, created in the Age of Enlightenment.
> Next.


*To regent:*

​


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## regent (Dec 4, 2015)

Flanders said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > One comment at a time would help. To answer your first: I don't believe Karl Marx's predictions, nor his communism. If you do, explain why Marx's dialectical materialism never came to pass, or why the US nor England never went communistic even with degrees of socialism?
> ...


Probably a little too much for Porky


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## namvet (Dec 4, 2015)

what if they put one up of big ears???


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## Flanders (Feb 18, 2016)

*UPDATE*​
*What else can I say that I have not already covered in this thread except that is a lot of money to pay for an eyesore: *

Commission Requests *$84 Million* to Build Eisenhower Memorial
    Controversial memorial design has already cost taxpayers $66 million

Commission Requests $84 Million to Build Eisenhower Memorial​


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## regent (Feb 18, 2016)

Mad Scientist said:


> I don't like the Vietnam Memorial either. It's like walking into a grave.


Yeah, memorials should be spunky, filled with politics, upbeat, sort of like when we were kids and shooting everything in sight. Memorials are sort of the negative side of a war.


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## Flanders (Mar 22, 2016)

Flanders said:


> Today history is repeating itself, as another memorial commission—for the Eisenhower—is locked in a bitter war of attrition with Congress over funding.


*Maybe Congress should accept the Eisenhower Memorial as is lest the anti-America crowd replace it  with one similar to this design: *



 
http://s2.freebeacon.com/up/2016/01/Credit-Twitter-user-Hassanvand-copy.png

Report: Iran to Commemorate Capture of American Sailors with Monument
   BY: Morgan Chalfant   
   March 21, 2016 5:35 pm

Report: Iran to Commemorate Capture of American Sailors with Monument​


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## Flanders (Sep 14, 2016)

*UPDATE*​
Fifty-eight generals and admirals signed a letter calling for a new design competition for the Dwight Eisenhower memorial in Washington, D.C.

   The letter was delivered last week to the House and Senate subcommittees that appropriate funds for the memorial.

   “As flag officers who have been honored to serve our country in war and peace, just as Eisenhower was, we call on our elected political leaders to honor him properly by mandating a new, fair, and public competition to design his memorial,” the letter states.​
58 Generals, Admirals Sign Letter Opposing Design of Eisenhower Memorial
           BY: Blake Seitz  
           September 13, 2016 5:20 pm

58 Generals, Admirals Sign Letter Opposing Design of Eisenhower Memorial​


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## regent (Sep 14, 2016)

I  guess it's only fair that Generals get to pick memorials for generals, but I wonder who picks the memorials for the enlisted pukes?


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## whitehall (Sep 14, 2016)

There was a time when war memorials displayed heroic images but those days are gone. Now the powers that approve the designs want to pretend that Americans aren't capable of  heroic acts in defense of their Country and war is merely an act of universal suffering. About 50,000 Americans died during the three year Korean War, sometimes in fierce fighting, but the Korean War memorial looks like a bunch of grunts headed to the chow hall or the latrine, ditto the three racially correct grunts in the Vietnam memorial who seem to be lost. The Wall is a different deal but it memorializes only death instead of valor.


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## whitehall (Sep 14, 2016)

The politics behind federally sponsored memorials is interesting. It seems that the media and the federal government was satisfied to forget the "forgotten war" because it was so grossly mishandled by the Truman administration and they didn't get around to a Korean War memorial until 40 years after the event. We ended up with a field of ghost like statues going nowhere. The most recognized war memorial is the Iwo Jima Flag raising because it tells a story and it depicts duty, honor and country. The blank faced bronze of three Vietnam grunts is entirely forgettable and maybe that was the intent.


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