# Border Agent's Sentence Commuted



## WillowTree

Bush Commutes Sentences for Two Former Border Patrol Agents



On his last full day in office, President Bush commuted the sentences of two former Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting a Mexican drug runner in 2005. 

The imprisonment of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean had sparked outcry from critics who said the two were just doing their jobs. They had been sentenced to 11- and 12-year sentences, respectively. 

Their prison sentences will now expire on March 20 of this year. 

The two were sentenced in connection with the shooting of Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, who was shot in the buttocks while trying to flee along the Texas border. He admitted smuggling several hundred pounds of marijuana on the day he was shot and pleaded guilty last year to drug charges related to two other smuggling attempts



Bush Commutes Sentences for Two Former Border Patrol Agents | Political News - FOXNews.com


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## Ravi

I'm glad he didn't pardon them. Hopefully, they'll never work in law enforcement again.


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## Modbert

Hooray! The Justice System fails again!


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## WillowTree

Bush will always be my hero! Always.


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## Terry

Good News, I just hope they are safe and are able to find decent paying jobs for they paid a heavy price to do their job!


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## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> Bush will always be my hero! Always.



Gee, if I shot a shot a fleeing, unarmed person and then lied about it, you'd think I could get my sentence commuted too?


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## WillowTree

Modbert said:


> Gee, if I shot a shot a fleeing, unarmed person and then lied about it, you'd think I could get my sentence commuted too?





not if I have any say so in the matter!


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## KMAN

Finally!  

Bush commutes sentences of former US border agents


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## strollingbones

lets see didnt these two guys...shot an guy in the ass or back...then cover it up...wow i am so glad bush pardoned them....what a fucking joke...just cause they are border agents doesnt make them above the law


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## DiamondDave

strollingbones said:


> lets see didnt these two guys...shot an guy in the ass or back...then cover it up...wow i am so glad bush pardoned them....what a fucking joke...just cause they are border agents doesnt make them above the law



_Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said. _


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## Sunni Man

Bush screwed up every decision he made during his 8 years in office.

So he just topped it of with one last bad one.


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## WillowTree

I already posted this STORY down in Immigration.. but in honor of President Bush let me post this


[YOUTUBE]kiEZCqTo1Bg[/YOUTUBE]


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## strollingbones

Compeán was patrolling a section of border with another agent (Ignacio Ramos) when they spotted a man crossing the border. They stopped him in a van containing 743 pounds of marijuana,[1] but he ran. Compeán said he thought the suspect had a gun and was going to shoot him so he fired at him first. His shot missed but his partner, hearing gunfire, fired in order to defend Compeán and hit the suspect in the buttocks. They lost sight of the man but said they saw him on the Mexican side of the border. They did not believe he had been injured so they did not report the incident.[2][3]

Jose Compean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After a two-week jury trial, Compeán was found guilty on 11 counts, including discharging a firearm during the commission of a violent crime, which by itself carries a federally mandated 10-year minimum sentence. Without that charge, both agents involved would have received far shorter sentences. Instead, Compeán was sentenced to 12 years in prison, and his partner, Ignacio Ramos, was sentenced to 11 years in prison.[2] Aldrete Dávila was granted immunity to testify against the two agents and received six border crossing visas to come to the United States and testify.[4]


them are some real heros


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## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> I already posted this STORY down in Immigration.. but in honor of President Bush let me post this
> 
> 
> [YOUTUBE]kiEZCqTo1Bg[/YOUTUBE]



Bush is not a cowboy. By far he isn't.


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## Sunni Man

DiamondDave said:


> _Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said. _


Doesn't every person in prison suffer form loss of freedom and reputation?


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## WillowTree

Sunni Man said:


> Bush screwed up every decision he made during his 8 years in office.
> 
> So he just topped it of with one last bad one.





The best decision he has ever made...


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## strollingbones

DiamondDave said:


> _Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said. _




point taken...still dont agree with it...and the fact that they are viewed as the nifoned ones....


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## WillowTree

Modbert said:


> Bush is not a cowboy. By far he isn't.






He's my cowboy hunny bunny,, he's my cowboy!

besides you little snot nosed twit you may not remember this, Bush's enemy's always called him "cowboy" with a smirk. I'm smirking now.


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## Terry

They shot to stop him not shoot to kill, hence why they got shot in the ass. 
They were "DOING THEIR JOB"  spin that however you want but the fact is they were doing their job.  

They were convicted because of a hyper sensitive political people who were trying to get illegal immagraition bill passed.  It was all a stunt if you ask me.  

I cannot wait until they get out and write a book to tell the entire story!  I'll buy that book just to contribute to helping them recoup earnings lost by a lying DA.


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## michiganFats

The problem I have with this is that Bush knew the facts 2 years ago. If Ramos and Campeon weren't worthy of a pardon then, why are they worthy of one now? Bush should be put on trial for this. You don't play with the freedom of American citizens.


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## WillowTree

michiganFats said:


> The problem I have with this is that Bush knew the facts 2 years ago. If Ramos and Campeon weren't worthy of a pardon then, why are they worthy of one now? Bush should be put on trial for this. You don't play with the freedom of American citizens.






True, but I'm just thankful they are set free. They can hug their wives again, see their children. and hopefully not be too bitter. Mercy, is a wonderful thing.


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## Terry

I think in my opinion anyway, that Bush is a very busy man and he wasn't up to speed about it all but rather had his advisor's inform him about this case.  My bet is he wasn't totally aware of it all.


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## auditor0007

strollingbones said:


> lets see didnt these two guys...shot an guy in the ass or back...then cover it up...wow i am so glad bush pardoned them....what a fucking joke...just cause they are border agents doesnt make them above the law




Apparently, idiocy can run rampant on these boards.  They weren't pardoned; they're sentences were commuted, meaning they will get out of jail after serving over two years each, but their convictions were upheld.  The sentences they received were extremely excessive.  

I do not go along with the idea that they were just doing their jobs.  They did try to cover things up and obviously knew they had stepped beyond the law, therefore, a pardon was not given.  As it turns out, the guy they shot wasn't just an innocent Mexican trying to find a better life.  He was a drug runner bringing over 750 pounds of contraband into this country.

Either way, this was a long time coming, and I'm glad Bush made the right decision.


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## auditor0007

Sunni Man said:


> Bush screwed up every decision he made during his 8 years in office.
> 
> So he just topped it of with one last bad one.



Surprise, surprise; more words of wisdom from Sunni Man.


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## michiganFats

Terry, I don't believe Bush didn't know. His press secretary spoke on this issue. He knew. He played with the freedom of American Citizens. He has to pay for it.


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## auditor0007

WillowTree said:


> The best decision he has ever made...



I don't know if I'd say it was his best decision, but it was the right decision.


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## WillowTree

Terry said:


> I think in my opinion anyway, that Bush is a very busy man and he wasn't up to speed about it all but rather had his advisor's inform him about this case.  My bet is he wasn't totally aware of it all.





I disagree. The man who prosecuted and imprisoned these men is one of Bush's good friends. He knew!


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## michiganFats

Willow, you're right. The most important thing is that these two men will no longer be in prison. My only question is, why wait until March 20?


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## Diuretic

Modbert said:


> Gee, if I shot a shot a fleeing, unarmed person and then lied about it, you'd think I could get my sentence commuted too?



It's about context Robert.  Provided you could demonise the person using a combination of his or her voluntary actions and possibly their membership of a despised underclass you'd be sitting pretty - I wouldn't advise it though, these things can be a bit fluid


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## Truthmatters

Im glad he did this , good one Bush.

so few and far inbetween.


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## ABikerSailor

It's about time that dumb fucker in the White House finally decided to do something right for a change.

Did you know that dirtbag drug runner was also given a cross the border free pass on several occasions BY THIS COUNTRY?

Nope....Ramos and Compean deserve to be free.  Too bad Bush only throws around full pardons for his cronies.


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## Lycurgus

DiamondDave said:


> _Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said. _




Exactly!


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## GHook93

Finally Bush did something right! The men were doing their job and some activist liberal open border judge went against his oath of upholding the constitution and put these 2 behind bars. This is a long time coming.

However, the damage is already done. From what I heard a lot of border partol officers are very afraid to do their job for fear of a similar treatment, not violent cartel and drug runners have a huge upper hand on America!


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## GHook93

Modbert said:


> Gee, if I shot a shot a fleeing, unarmed person and then lied about it, you'd think I could get my sentence commuted too?



Fleaing druge smuggler, who they had no idea he was unarmed!


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## GHook93

michiganFats said:


> The problem I have with this is that Bush knew the facts 2 years ago. If Ramos and Campeon weren't worthy of a pardon then, why are they worthy of one now? Bush should be put on trial for this. You don't play with the freedom of American citizens.



Exactly! Even though this is a long time coming, Bush still fucked up by waiting too long!


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## Annie

GHook93 said:


> Exactly! Even though this is a long time coming, Bush still fucked up by waiting too long!



He didn't pardon, he commuted. Perhaps for reasons stated? Thought terms were draconian, doesn't mean two years was.


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## Tech_Esq

They discharged their weapons and didn't make a report. That means they knew it wasn't right. That said, they were taking out the trash and they shouldn't have the 12 years put on them. It should have been a max of 3 and, of course, all of the administrative stuff (loss of job, never be a cop again etc etc).


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## indago

Tech_Esq said:


> They discharged their weapons and didn't make a report. That means they knew it wasn't right. That said, they were taking out the trash and they shouldn't have the 12 years put on them. It should have been a max of 3 and, of course, all of the administrative stuff (loss of job, never be a cop again etc etc).



So, who would want to "be a cop again" under those kinds of conditions?


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## WillowTree

Both wives are on Glenn Beck this afternoon. Their joy is overflowing. I am so happy for them.


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## Harry Dresden

ABikerSailor said:


> It's about time that dumb fucker in the White House finally decided to do something right for a change.
> 
> Did you know that dirtbag drug runner was also given a cross the border free pass on several occasions BY THIS COUNTRY?
> 
> Nope....Ramos and Compean deserve to be free.  Too bad Bush only throws around full pardons for his cronies.



i concur with ya Sailor......


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## Dante

DiamondDave said:


> _*Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences* because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said. _



Pardoned and commuted are two very different things with different criteria. 

The agents would not have been pardoned since they have no admitted guilt or remorse. Excessive sentences and suffering? Sounds like the Libby justification.


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## Dante

auditor0007 said:


> Apparently, idiocy can run rampant on these boards.  They weren't pardoned; they're sentences were commuted, meaning they will get out of jail after serving over two years each, but their convictions were upheld.





auditor0007 said:


> The sentences they received were extremely excessive.



how so?



auditor0007 said:


> I do not go along with the idea that they were just doing their jobs.  They did try to cover things up and obviously knew they had stepped beyond the law, therefore, a pardon was not given.  As it turns out, the guy they shot wasn't just an innocent Mexican trying to find a better life.  He was a drug runner bringing over 750 pounds of contraband into this country.
> 
> Either way, this was a long time coming, and I'm glad Bush made the right decision.


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## Anguille

DiamondDave said:


> _Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said. _



Yeah, losing your job and getting a bad rep is tough enough. Let's let every murderer out of prison. They've suffered enough.


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## Ravi

WillowTree said:


> Both wives are on Glenn Beck this afternoon. Their joy is overflowing. I am so happy for them.


Yep, they get to welcome their slightly used felons home with open arms.


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## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> Yep, they get to welcome their slightly used felons home with open arms.





They were in solitary you evil pervert!


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## RetiredGySgt

Anguille said:


> Yeah, losing your job and getting a bad rep is tough enough. Let's let every murderer out of prison. They've suffered enough.



Well except for the fact they did not murder anyone, you sure nailed that one.


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## Dante

RetiredGySgt said:


> Well except for the fact they did not murder anyone, you sure nailed that one.



OMG!  

Stop making fun out of Mrs. Anguille Kravitz. She means well ya know?


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## Gunny

strollingbones said:


> lets see didnt these two guys...shot an guy in the ass or back...then cover it up...wow i am so glad bush pardoned them....what a fucking joke...just cause they are border agents doesnt make them above the law




So?  If I think someone is shooting at me I could care less where they get hit when I fire back.  

The sentences were too harsh.  Period.  Commuting them was the right thing to do.


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## alan1

Gunny said:


> So?  If I think someone is shooting at me I could care less where they get hit when I fire back.
> 
> The sentences were too harsh.  Period.  Commuting them was the right thing to do.



Lets not forget, they shot somebody that was in the act of committing a crime and refusing to follow simple directions (halt, stop) from a law enforcement officer.

One of the most messed up things in this country is we all of the sudden started treating the criminals as if they were victims.


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## Anguille

BatBoy said:


> Lets not forget, they shot somebody that was in the act of committing a crime and refusing to follow simple directions (halt, stop) from a law enforcement officer.
> 
> One of the most messed up things in this country is we all of the sudden started treating the criminals as if they were victims.


So why did they not report what they did? Why did they try to cover it up?
Because they shot an unarmed man in the back.


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## Harry Dresden

Anguille said:


> So why did they not report what they did? Why did they try to cover it up?
> Because they shot an unarmed man in the back.



an unarmed guy transporting 700 ponds of pot across the border working for the Cartel?.....yea right....


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## dilloduck

BatBoy said:


> Lets not forget, they shot somebody that was in the act of committing a crime and refusing to follow simple directions (halt, stop) from a law enforcement officer.
> 
> One of the most messed up things in this country is we all of the sudden started treating the criminals as if they were victims.



Half the damn border agents are on the take down there anyway and help the lawbreakers more than they harm them. Give them a medal for at least shooting at the bad guys instead of getting paid to look the other way.

Bush haters can just put this on their long list of bitches but I'm glad he gave these guys some slack.


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## WillowTree

dilloduck said:


> Hald the damn border agents are on the take down there anyway and help the lawbreakers more than they harm them. Give them a medal for at least shooting at the bad guys instead of getting paid to loo kthe other way.
> 
> Bush haters can just put this on their long list of bitches but I'm glad he gave these guys some slack.






 


Really, as if the Bush haters needed a reason.


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## alan1

Anguille said:


> So why did they not report what they did? Why did they try to cover it up?
> Because they shot an unarmed man in the back.



They shot a criminal in the ass,

How about this for you,
if the criminal wasn't committing a crime, what do you think would have happened?


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## Anguille

dilloduck said:


> Half the damn border agents are on the take down there anyway and help the lawbreakers more than they harm them. Give them a medal for at least shooting at the bad guys instead of getting paid to look the other way.



Sounds like you're saying they killed the guy because he wouldn't pay them a bribe. 

I would not be surprised if that was so. Someone who would shoot an unarmed guy in the back is low enough to do that.

No one deserves to die for smuggling marijuana.


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## WillowTree

Anguille said:


> Sounds like you're saying they killed the guy because he wouldn't pay them a bribe.
> 
> I would not be surprised if that was so. Someone who would shoot an unarmed guy in the back is low enough to do that.
> 
> No one deserves to die for smuggling marijuana.





yeah? maybe, but look at all the folks who die cause they do smuggle drugs! What about them? Huh? What about them?


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## DiveCon

Anguille said:


> Sounds like you're saying they killed the guy because he wouldn't pay them a bribe.
> 
> I would not be surprised if that was so. Someone who would shoot an unarmed guy in the back is low enough to do that.
> 
> No one deserves to die for smuggling marijuana.


ang, you're doing it again

they didnt kill anyone
the guy they shot is still alive and he actually was used to testify against them
a clear outrage that a mexican drug runner got away with that should piss you off


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## Ravi

WillowTree said:


> They were in solitary you evil pervert!


Why would they have been in solitary?


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## strollingbones

BatBoy said:


> Lets not forget, they shot somebody that was in the act of committing a crime and refusing to follow simple directions (halt, stop) from a law enforcement officer.
> 
> One of the most messed up things in this country is we all of the sudden started treating the criminals as if they were victims.



if it was a good shot why did they cover it up?  remember its never the crime....its the cover up


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## RetiredGySgt

michiganFats said:


> The problem I have with this is that Bush knew the facts 2 years ago. If Ramos and Campeon weren't worthy of a pardon then, why are they worthy of one now? Bush should be put on trial for this. You don't play with the freedom of American citizens.



Once again for the stupid and slow, he did not Pardon them, he commuted their sentence. He decided that 2 years in prison was enough of a punishment.


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## RetiredGySgt

michiganFats said:


> Terry, I don't believe Bush didn't know. His press secretary spoke on this issue. He knew. He played with the freedom of American Citizens. He has to pay for it.



Retard alert, RETARD ALERT.


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## RetiredGySgt

GHook93 said:


> Fleaing druge smuggler, who they had no idea he was unarmed!



No proof other then his word he WAS unarmed. The wound was consistant with him turning to fire.


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## RetiredGySgt

Anguille said:


> So why did they not report what they did? Why did they try to cover it up?
> Because they shot an unarmed man in the back.



Their supervisor was there and TOLD them not to report it.


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## RetiredGySgt

Anguille said:


> Sounds like you're saying they killed the guy because he wouldn't pay them a bribe.
> 
> I would not be surprised if that was so. Someone who would shoot an unarmed guy in the back is low enough to do that.
> 
> No one deserves to die for smuggling marijuana.



Hey stupid, he did not get shot in the back and HE DID NOT DIE. But you keep being ignorant of facts, we all know you can not figure things out anyway.


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> No proof other then his word he WAS unarmed.



Where's the gun then?



> The wound was consistant with him turning to fire.



The cops fired like 14 shots before they hit the guy.  Do ya think with 14 shots whizzing by him that the suspect might begin to zig-zag or run erratically?

Sorry but the whole "turning to fire" thing just doesn't hold water.


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## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> Where's the gun then?
> 
> 
> 
> The cops fired like 14 shots before they hit the guy.  Do ya think with 14 shots whizzing by him that the suspect might begin to zig-zag or run erratically?
> 
> Sorry but the whole "turning to fire" thing just doesn't hold water.



Lets see the guy made it back into Mexico. The gun got left at home when the DA came calling. The wound was not consistant with zig zagging but consistant with a man twisting his body to turn to fire.


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## RetiredGySgt

The idea that a guy smuggling hundreds of pounds of MJ would be unarmed makes perfect sense? Right? I mean him not having to worry about crooked cops, other smugglers, other crooks, NOPE being unarmed makes perfect sense.


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> Lets see the guy made it back into Mexico. The gun got left at home when the DA came calling.



Can you prove that?



> The wound *was not consistant with zig zagging* but consistant with a man twisting his body to turn to fire.



Was that documented?


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> The idea that a guy smuggling hundreds of pounds of MJ would be unarmed makes perfect sense? Right? I mean him not having to worry about crooked cops, other smugglers, other crooks, NOPE being unarmed makes perfect sense.



It doesn't matter what you think "makes sense" it's what can be proven.


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## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> Can you prove that?
> 
> 
> 
> Was that documented?



LOL can you prove he did not have a gun, since he was never apprehended?

And yes the medical professional that examined the wound made the statement.


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## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> It doesn't matter what you think "makes sense" it's what can be proven.



Wrong again. One does not have to prove he had a gun, one need only show evidence that it made sense he would have a gun. Since he was never apprehended that would be all that was needed, the preponderance of evidence suggests he would have been armed.


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL can you prove he did not have a gun, since he was never apprehended?



I'm not the one asserting that he had a gun.  You want a gun in the scenario.  The burden of proof is on you, my friend.



> And yes the medical professional that examined the wound made the statement.



I don't doubt that he made the "turning to fire" statement, I was just curious to see if "zig zagging" or "erratic running" was brought up by the defense.


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> Wrong again. One does not have to prove he had a gun, one need only show evidence that it made sense he would have a gun. Since he was never apprehended that would be all that was needed, the preponderance of evidence suggests he would have been armed.



Oh, okay I see what you are saying.

Is that true?  

It seems kinda flimsy to me that a gun can be concocted without any hard evidence.  If it is then I can't imagine it being weighted all that heavily.


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## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> Oh, okay I see what you are saying.
> 
> Is that true?
> 
> It seems kinda flimsy to me that a gun can be concocted without any hard evidence.  If it is then I can't imagine it being weighted all that heavily.


The border agents disposed of all shell casings, failed to file a report and lied to their supervisors. Seems rather obvious they were covering up their misdeeds.


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## strollingbones

and were convicted by a jury of their peers...


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## Article 15

Ravi said:


> The border agents disposed of all shell casings, failed to file a report and lied to their supervisors. Seems rather obvious they were covering up their misdeeds.



Oh yeah, these pigs stink for sure.

It's just that people want to put a gun in this dude's hand and I haven't seen anything to confirm it.


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## RetiredGySgt

strollingbones said:


> and were convicted by a jury of their peers...



And OJ was released by a Jury of his peers as was Michael Jackson. Which is it dear? All Juries are right every time? Or sometimes they get it wrong?


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## RetiredGySgt

Once again for the slow and stupid. The Supervisor was at the scene and ordered them not to file a report and to police the area. The DA turned to a KNOWN drug smuggler as a witness.


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## Ravi

Article 15 said:


> Oh yeah, these pigs stink for sure.
> 
> It's just that people want to put a gun in this dude's hand and I haven't seen anything to confirm it.


I imagine if he had one they wouldn't have gotten rid of the bullet shells. None of them belonged to him would be my bet.


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## Article 15

Ravi said:


> I imagine if he had one they wouldn't have gotten rid of the bullet shells. None of them belonged to him would be my bet.



Mine too.


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## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> Mine too.



Are you two really this dumb? There would be no casings near the Border agents from the other guys firearm. And no one said he fired, they said he appeared to have a weapon and was attempting to fire. Further if he did fire , finding the BULLET would have been impossible given the fact there was nothing for it to strike and embed in except dirt, no telling where it came to earth.


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> Are you two really this dumb?



I don't know.  Can you provide some kind of metric we can work with here?



> There would be no casings near the Border agents from the other guys firearm. And no one said he fired, they said he appeared to have a weapon and was attempting to fire. Further if he did fire , finding the BULLET would have been impossible given the fact there was nothing for it to strike and embed in except dirt, no telling where it came to earth.



If he fired the gun all they would have to do is search the area around his tracks to find the casing.


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## Article 15

And who turns to fire and then doesn't?


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## Ravi

Maybe RGS thinks the guy was shooting at them from 20 miles away.


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## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> I don't know.  Can you provide some kind of metric we can work with here?
> 
> 
> 
> If he fired the gun all they would have to do is search the area around his tracks to find the casing.



He was in the river. You two are hilarious.


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## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> And who turns to fire and then doesn't?



Some hit in the ass doesn't.


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> He was in the river.



The whole time?


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## Ravi

lol, now they shot a guy swimming away from them? He wasn't in the river, he was running toward the river.


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## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> Some hit in the ass doesn't.



So now we have fleeing suspect in a river, close enough for the cops to claim he was turning to fire on them, and close enough for them to hit his butt with a shot but this guy still got away.

Yeah


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## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> So now we have fleeing suspect in a river, close enough for the cops to claim he was turning to fire on them, and close enough for them to hit his butt with a shot but this guy still got away.
> 
> Yeah



Makes as much and more sense then a drug smuggler was unarmed coming out of Mexico. Further if he had a revolver there would be no shell cases at all. But again neither agent claimed he fired, they stated they believed he was going to fire after he refused to halt and ran. They further stated he turned as if to fire.

Tell ya what bucky? You believe a criminal and I will believe two Border Agents that were honest enough not to be on the take.

And Ravi I am waiting for an answer to my question on Juries always being right?


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## RetiredGySgt

Ravi said:


> lol, now they shot a guy swimming away from them? He wasn't in the river, he was running toward the river.



Hey dumb shit the river was shallow enough for him to drive a truck across no swimming needed. But nice attempt to spin it. After being hit in the ass he still managed to get into Mexico, I would say he had to be damn close when he got hit.


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## Ravi

RetiredGySgt said:


> Makes as much and more sense then a drug smuggler was unarmed coming out of Mexico. Further if he had a revolver there would be no shell cases at all. But again neither agent claimed he fired, they stated they believed he was going to fire after he refused to halt and ran. They further stated he turned as if to fire.
> 
> Tell ya what bucky? You believe a criminal and I will believe two Border Agents that were honest enough not to be on the take.
> 
> And Ravi I am waiting for an answer to my question on Juries always being right?


Never said they were. 

The border patrol agents are cowards. Nothing else explains them picking up their shells and covering up their misdeeds. I'm happy their record of conviction stands and hope they have a very difficult time finding employment. What a lesson to teach their kids.


----------



## Ravi

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hey dumb shit the river was shallow enough for him to drive a truck across no swimming needed. But nice attempt to spin it. After being hit in the ass he still managed to get into Mexico, I would say he had to be damn close when he got hit.


He wasn't in the river.


----------



## Article 15

RetiredGySgt said:


> Makes as much and more sense then a drug smuggler was unarmed coming out of Mexico. Further if he had a revolver there would be no shell cases at all. But again neither agent claimed he fired, they stated they believed he was going to fire after he refused to halt and ran. They further stated he turned as if to fire.



And that brings us back from whatever tangent we were on and to the point that you can't prove that he had a gun in his hand.



> Tell ya what bucky? You believe a criminal and I will believe two Border Agents that were honest enough not to be on the take.



I'll believe the court's decision.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> And that brings us back from whatever tangent we were on and to the point that you can't prove that he had a gun in his hand.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll believe the court's decision.



Once again since he was not apprehended at the time one does not have to prove he had a weapon, only that the preponderance of evidence shows he had a weapon at the time.


----------



## Anguille

DiveCon said:


> ang, you're doing it again
> 
> they didnt kill anyone
> the guy they shot is still alive and he actually was used to testify against them
> a clear outrage that a mexican drug runner got away with that should piss you off



Yes, I did mix this story up with another one. 

But that doesn't change the fact that they tried to cover up what they did. They hid the evidence and lied. No reason to think they weren't looking for a bribe and decided to make an example of the guy. 

The guy was smuggling marijuana not cocaine or illegal weapons.


----------



## WillowTree

I'm glad on this day of all days it pisses you liberals off that you lost this round. The good guys catch a break. Go compean, Go Ramos.


----------



## Ravi

WillowTree said:


> I'm glad on this day of all days it pisses you liberals off that you lost this round. The good guys catch a break. Go compean, Go Ramos.


I'm happy with the commutation. A pardon would have been wrong. Reducing their sentence while leaving them with their record--for once ex-president Bush got one right.


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> I'm happy with the commutation. A pardon would have been wrong. Reducing their sentence while leaving them with their record--for once ex-president Bush got one right.




President Bush got it right many more times than once.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Hey Ravi, have you ever been trained to shoot?  If so, you would understand (like the military does) to collect your brass (you know....the shell casings), after you fire them.  They can be reloaded.  Ask a military sniper sometime.

As far as only smuggling pot?  Well.......guess what......he's not only smuggled pot, but cocaine, weapons, illegals, and a whole lot of other bad shit.  Ramos and Compean were simply doing their jobs, and defending this country.

Or......would you like to see a border like another poster posted?  They'd said that the US/Mexican border would soon end up like the border between Gaza and Israel.

Oh yeah........it's already started to happen.......might wanna check the news sometime......Ever hear about the Native American border patrol agents?  They are used because they know how to track.  Weapons, cocaine, crime.....it's all coming in via Texas, Arizona, and California.  New Mexico on occasion.......

Might wanna start learning how to shoot and be accurate.  Ammo may end up in short supply soon.


----------



## ABikerSailor

WillowTree said:


> President Bush got it right many more times than once.



Really?

Then please explain why EVERYONE at the ceremony in the Mall, was singing "Kiss Them Goodbye" by Steam?

True story...........

When I was on my last ship (USNS CONCORD (T-AFS-5)), we had a Commander who was in charge.  Biggest, stupidest, and most arrogant prick I've ever had the displeasure to work with.

When we were in Greece?  He was transferred (his rotation was up), and everyone on the boat, military and civilian mariners, all gathered on the side of the ship and started to sing that song.

Good times........


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey Ravi, have you ever been trained to shoot?  If so, you would understand (like the military does) to collect your brass (you know....the shell casings), after you fire them.  They can be reloaded.  Ask a military sniper sometime.
> 
> As far as only smuggling pot?  Well.......guess what......he's not only smuggled pot, but cocaine, weapons, illegals, and a whole lot of other bad shit.  Ramos and Compean were simply doing their jobs, and defending this country.
> 
> Or......would you like to see a border like another poster posted?  They'd said that the US/Mexican border would soon end up like the border between Gaza and Israel.
> 
> Oh yeah........it's already started to happen.......might wanna check the news sometime......Ever hear about the Native American border patrol agents?  They are used because they know how to track.  Weapons, cocaine, crime.....it's all coming in via Texas, Arizona, and California.  New Mexico on occasion.......
> 
> Might wanna start learning how to shoot and be accurate.  Ammo may end up in short supply soon.


In the case of a non-military shooting, and that's basically what this was, the evidence should be treated as if it was part of a crime scene...in other words, left for the investigators to draw their conclusions.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> In the case of a non-military shooting, and that's basically what this was, the evidence should be treated as if it was part of a crime scene...in other words, left for the investigators to draw their conclusions.



Wrong.........what part of "border patrol" do you keep forgetting?  They're a specialized portion of the police, kinda like SWAT.

Nope.....they are supposed to follow military protocol.


----------



## sky dancer

I'm happy for Ramos and Compean that their sentences were _commuted_ rather than their crimes pardoned.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Wrong.........what part of "border patrol" do you keep forgetting?  They're a specialized portion of the police, kinda like SWAT.
> 
> Nope.....they are supposed to follow military protocol.


Link?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> Link?



No link dear.......my service in the military isn't on the 'net.

Do your own research.


----------



## DiveCon

ABikerSailor said:


> No link dear.......my service in the military isn't on the 'net.
> 
> Do your own research.


well, to ravi, and many others, if it isnt on the internets, it didnt happen


----------



## ABikerSailor

Maybe she should expand her horizons and meet someone outside her experience level.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Maybe she should expand her horizons and meet someone outside her experience level.


Or maybe you should back up your claims. Just a thought.


----------



## Ravi

The border patrol is federal law enforcement, not the military. Just like the FBI, they don't have sweeping military powers...and guess what, we aren't at war with Mexico so even the military wouldn't be allowed to tamper with evidence if they had shot at the drug dealer.


----------



## DiveCon

Ravi said:


> Or maybe you should back up your claims. Just a thought.


not everyones personal life is available on the internet
why dont you just say you don't believe him and be done with it
because that is essentially what you are saying


----------



## Ravi

DiveCon said:


> not everyones personal life is available on the internet
> why dont you just say you don't believe him and be done with it
> because that is essentially what you are saying


I'm not asking him to back up his personal life. I'm asking him to back up his claim that the border patrol is above the law.


----------



## DiveCon

Ravi said:


> I'm not asking him to back up his personal life. I'm asking him to back up his claim that the border patrol is above the law.


where did he claim they were above the law?


----------



## Ravi

When he said they didn't need to preserve a crime scene.


----------



## Againsheila

Ravi said:


> The border patrol is federal law enforcement, not the military. Just like the FBI, they don't have sweeping military powers...and guess what, we aren't at war with Mexico so even the military wouldn't be allowed to tamper with evidence if they had shot at the drug dealer.



The Mexican military has crossed the border more than 200 times in the past few years AND fired on our border patrol agents as well as our national guard...what else would you call it if not a war?


----------



## DiveCon

Ravi said:


> When he said they didn't need to preserve a crime scene.


and where did he say that?
or are you assuming he meant that when he said something else?


----------



## Ravi

Here: _If so, you would understand (like the military does) to collect your brass (you know....the shell casings), after you fire them. They can be reloaded. Ask a military sniper sometime._

They aren't the military. But if you agree they should preserve a crime scene then you must agree they were guilty.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> Here: _If so, you would understand (like the military does) to collect your brass (you know....the shell casings), after you fire them. They can be reloaded. Ask a military sniper sometime._
> 
> They aren't the military. But if you agree they should preserve a crime scene then you must agree they were guilty.



No you stupid woman, I said that the border patrol is a SPECIALIZED PART OF THE POLICE FORCE LIKE SWAT.  THEY FOLLOW SOME OF THE SAME FUCKING PROTOCOLS.

Pull your head out of your ass dear, and quit twisting other people's words.

I was in Security Forces for the Navy for over 4 years, and kinda had to get familiar with procedures.  You, on the other hand, have zip point squat practical experience, and therefore have nothing to contribute other than hearsay and bullshit.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> No you stupid woman, I said that the border patrol is a SPECIALIZED PART OF THE POLICE FORCE LIKE SWAT.  THEY FOLLOW SOME OF THE SAME FUCKING PROTOCOLS.
> 
> Pull your head out of your ass dear, and quit twisting other people's words.
> 
> I was in Security Forces for the Navy for over 4 years, and kinda had to get familiar with procedures.  You, on the other hand, have zip point squat practical experience, and therefore have nothing to contribute other than hearsay and bullshit.


The Navy isn't border patrol, dear. SWAT teams are held accountable to the law, you stupid woman. Get your head out of your ass and quit pretending that the border patrol is part of the military.


----------



## manifold

What's all this then?

Looks like an interesting discussion, but I'm already 8 pages behind.  Can anyone catch me up in 75 words or less...in return for some pos rep?


----------



## Harry Dresden

strollingbones said:


> and were convicted by a jury of their peers...



juries are pretty stupid sometimes,like the lady who put a cup of hot coffee between her legs while driving,it spills,burns her,and she sues McDonalds and wins.....yea jury of your peers,sometimes stupid peers.....


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> The Navy isn't border patrol, dear. SWAT teams are held accountable to the law, you stupid woman. Get your head out of your ass and quit pretending that the border patrol is part of the military.



Okay............

Listen you twat faced ****, I didn't say that they were part of it, I said that they FOLLOW SOME OF THE SAME FUCKING PROTOCOLS.

Is it hard only being able to see out of your belly button?

Figures......you're probably a college chick who is scamming for a rich hubby, if you don't have one already.

You're almost as stupid as Elizabeth HasselBITCH from the View.

Oh yeah.......seen my fucking avatar bitch?  I'm a dude.

You're just a ****.


----------



## ABikerSailor

manifold said:


> What's all this then?
> 
> Looks like an interesting discussion, but I'm already 8 pages behind.  Can anyone catch me up in 75 words or less...in return for some pos rep?



Okay then.......short version......

Ravi the bitch says that the border patrol agents were trying to cover up a crime scene, and, also was wondering why there wasn't tape around where they shot him, as well as is inferring that she knows more than those that have actually been in the situations.  Doesn't she realize that THEY WERE ON THE FUCKING BORDER?  Oh yeah......it's also kinda hard to put police tape up over a river.

She thinks Bush Jr. was wrong for commuting their sentences.

Did that catch you up enough?  If so, send the payment.........


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> What's all this then?
> 
> Looks like an interesting discussion, but I'm already 8 pages behind.  Can anyone catch me up in 75 words or less...in return for some pos rep?


When Ravi addresses someone as "dear"  then you know she's really getting PO'ed. 

There, I caught you up in only 13 words.

I'll take my rep now, please.


----------



## Anguille

ABikerSailor said:


> Okay then.......short version......
> 
> Ravi the bitch says that the border patrol agents were trying to cover up a crime scene, and, also was wondering why there wasn't tape around where they shot him, as well as is inferring that she knows more than those that have actually been in the situations.  Doesn't she realize that THEY WERE ON THE FUCKING BORDER?  Oh yeah......it's also kinda hard to put police tape up over a river.
> 
> She thinks Bush Jr. was wrong for commuting their sentences.
> 
> Did that catch you up enough?  If so, send the payment.........



Why did you down grade Ravi from **** to bitch?

Just wondering.


----------



## michiganFats

I still stand by what I said before. It's a good thing that these two men are no longer in jail, but Bush knew the facts two years ago, and deserves to be tried for it. If anyone doubts that he knew two years ago, I direct you to the KFI640AM website. Plenty of interviews, lot's of interesting facts regarding who knew what at the time. You do not play with the freedom of American citizens, and Bush needs to answer for it. And, RetGySgt, just because you're a latent homo doesn't mean you need to resort to calling people retards.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

michiganFats said:


> I still stand by what I said before. It's a good thing that these two men are no longer in jail, but Bush knew the facts two years ago, and deserves to be tried for it. If anyone doubts that he knew two years ago, I direct you to the KFI640AM website. Plenty of interviews, lot's of interesting facts regarding who knew what at the time. You do not play with the freedom of American citizens, and Bush needs to answer for it. And, RetGySgt, just because you're a latent homo doesn't mean you need to resort to calling people retards.



The only latent anything is you. A Retard indeed. These men were tried and convicted by the LEGAL authority of the Government. I believe they were wrongly convicted. However the President does not. What he believed was that they had spent enough time in jail and so COMMUTED the sentence. He did not Pardon them. He did not overturn their conviction. He simple decided they had spent enough time in Prison for the crime.

Your moronic claim that Bush should somehow be tried is ignorant and , well, RETARDED. Thus making YOU a Retard.


----------



## michiganFats

RetGySgt, we all know you're gay. I think it's sad that you're the last one to figure it out. Here are your options: You can continue to posit straw men and ad hominem attacks(which make you look silly, or should I say thilly?), or you can just do us all a favor and go to the bathhouse you obviously want to visit.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

michiganFats said:


> RetGySgt, we all know you're gay. I think it's sad that you're the last one to figure it out. Here are your options: You can continue to posit straw men and ad hominem attacks(which make you look silly, or should I say thilly?), or you can just do us all a favor and go to the bathhouse you obviously want to visit.



No strawman at all. You made a claim that on its face is wrong and ignorant. Bush did not PARDON the men. So your claim that he should have Pardoned them 2 years ago is erroneous and ignores the FACTS in evidence. As for attacks you seem quite capable of them yourself. So tell ya what Bucky? Go fuck your boyfriend.


----------



## michiganFats

You do know that you have proved my point. First of all, our fellow posters will decide who is guilty of fallacious arguments(and no, fallacious doesn't mean what you think it means, you old queen), and...as for attack, yep,I'm better at it then you are, but just remember this, you hit me first, and you will get what you deserve.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

michiganFats said:


> You do know that you have proved my point. First of all, our fellow posters will decide who is guilty of fallacious arguments(and no, fallacious doesn't mean what you think it means, you old queen), and...as for attack, yep,I'm better at it then you are, but just remember this, you hit me first, and you will get what you deserve.



Ya cause well on an internet board where we do not know each other, you can sure hurt me. I am trembling in my boots.

Again for the stupid and slow ( that would be you). Bush did not pardon them, he did not say they should not have been convicted, he did not say they should be forgiven for the crime they were convicted of. He said they had served enough time for that crime.

Further you dumb shit, a Pardon is not somehow a criminal action, if it were we would have strung up Clinton when he pardon a criminal that had never served a day in jail because he ran away to another Country. A man that paid Clinton to Pardon him. Your ignorant claim is most definately RETARDED.


----------



## michiganFats

Oh OK, now you want to play it like I decided to attack you? You're a pussy. You hit and ran, and then couldn't man up, and I won't forget it.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

michiganFats said:


> Oh OK, now you want to play it like I decided to attack you? You're a pussy. You hit and ran, and then couldn't man up, and I won't forget it.



LOL, RETARD alert RETARD ALERT.

Hey dumb as rocks, you made an ignorant claim and keep making it. The one that needs to man up, is your tired ass. You claim a sitting President should be tried for "Pardoning" someone. When in fact he did not pardon them and even if he had one can not make that into some kind of crime.


----------



## michiganFats

I understand the difference between pardoning and commuting. I also stand by my assertion that you don't mess with the freedom of American citizens for political,or any other,reasons. If you are into keeping dudes in jail just because it's convenient for you, I guess that says a lot about you. I also stand by my assertion that you are a pussy. you fell for the gay trap, you called me retard twice today, you even resorted to talking about a hypothetical "face to face" meeting where you would teach me a lesson. I give the admins permission to give you my home address, and I forfeit my right to claim they are liable for anything that results due to that action. You're a pussy.


----------



## michiganFats

The invitation in my last post in this thread applies only to the user known as "RetiredGySgt".


----------



## RetiredGySgt

michiganFats said:


> I understand the difference between pardoning and commuting. I also stand by my assertion that you don't mess with the freedom of American citizens for political,or any other,reasons. If you are into keeping dudes in jail just because it's convenient for you, I guess that says a lot about you. I also stand by my assertion that you are a pussy. you fell for the gay trap, you called me retard twice today, you even resorted to talking about a hypothetical "face to face" meeting where you would teach me a lesson. I give the admins permission to give you my home address, and I forfeit my right to claim they are liable for anything that results due to that action. You're a pussy.



You will need to quote where I said I wanted to meet you face to face. But who cares. You will find threats are not tolerated on this board. So go ahead make some more.

Once again on the point. No one "messed" with anyone's freedom. The men were convicted and sent to jail and President Bush decided that 2 years was long enough to serve for the crime they were convicted off.  Further it is the sole power of the President to commute or Pardon anyone at ANY time he chooses. And you nor anyone else can claim it is a crime cause they did not do it when YOU thought they should have.

Like I said RETARD ALERT.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Okay then.......short version......
> 
> Ravi the bitch says that the border patrol agents were trying to cover up a crime scene, and, also was wondering why there wasn't tape around where they shot him, as well as is inferring that she knows more than those that have actually been in the situations.  Doesn't she realize that THEY WERE ON THE FUCKING BORDER?  Oh yeah......it's also kinda hard to put police tape up over a river.
> 
> She thinks Bush Jr. was wrong for commuting their sentences.
> 
> Did that catch you up enough?  If so, send the payment.........


Whatever, you poor sap. You can't provide evidence that the border patrol is free to pick up their shell casings and operate like the military in a war zone so you have a meltdown. The law, the courts, and the jury disagree with you. The border patrol is not the military, else this would have never been tried in civilian court.


----------



## Ravi

michiganFats said:


> I still stand by what I said before. It's a good thing that these two men are no longer in jail, but Bush knew the facts two years ago, and deserves to be tried for it. If anyone doubts that he knew two years ago, I direct you to the KFI640AM website. Plenty of interviews, lot's of interesting facts regarding who knew what at the time. You do not play with the freedom of American citizens, and Bush needs to answer for it. And, RetGySgt, just because you're a latent homo doesn't mean you need to resort to calling people retards.


Traditionally presidents issue pardons on their last days in office. These men were judged guilty and Bush's commutation doesn't make them less guilty. Perhaps he agreed with the judgment but disagreed with the harsh sentence. At least that is how I judge the case. They were guilty but their sentence was unduly harsh.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Ravi said:


> Traditionally presidents issue pardons on their last days in office. These men were judged guilty and Bush's commutation doesn't make them less guilty. Perhaps he agreed with the judgment but disagreed with the harsh sentence. At least that is how I judge the case. They were guilty but their sentence was unduly harsh.



This guy is brain dead. He can not grasp that fact Ravi. He actually thinks that one can put on trial a President for commuting a sentence or as he originally thought, a Pardon. The President has the power to do either for any or no reason at all. It is a power he has and can not be limited. Hell Clinton sold several Pardons and no one batted an eye. The Constitution rests that power in the President.


----------



## Anguille

Ravi said:


> Whatever, you poor sap. You can't provide evidence that the border patrol is free to pick up their shell casings and operate like the military in a war zone so you have a meltdown. The law, the courts, and the jury disagree with you. The border patrol is not the military, else this would have never been tried in civilian court.



I would venture that even the military police know not to tamper with a crime scene. 

I wonder if Biker is the the new Soggy? 

Perhaps he will tell us all about military procedures concerning the paving of military driveways by undocumented contractors?


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> Traditionally presidents issue pardons on their last days in office. These men were judged guilty and Bush's commutation doesn't make them less guilty. Perhaps he agreed with the judgment but disagreed with the harsh sentence. At least that is how I judge the case. They were guilty but their sentence was unduly harsh.





exactly, Bush showed them a little mercy. That is all.


----------



## catzmeow

Ravi said:


> Whatever, you poor sap. You can't provide evidence that the border patrol is free to pick up their shell casings and operate like the military in a war zone so you have a meltdown. The law, the courts, and the jury disagree with you. The border patrol is not the military, else this would have never been tried in civilian court.



I did find ABS's meltdown pretty funny.  So, which are you, Ravi?  A ****-faced bitch?  Or a bitch-faced ****?  Or Twatty McBitchycunt?

Why do men always think that calling women expletives that reference female genitalia will send us into a generalized meltdown?

Are they that sensitive about having their man-parts critiqued?


----------



## Ravi

catzmeow said:


> I did find ABS's meltdown pretty funny.  So, which are you, Ravi?  A ****-faced bitch?  Or a bitch-faced ****?  Or Twatty McBitchycunt?
> 
> Why do men always think that calling women expletives that reference female genitalia will send us into a generalized meltdown?
> 
> Are they that sensitive about having their man-parts critiqued?


Not all men, surely. ABS, IIRC, lost his balls in the Navy. Something to do with a mop mishap with a frigate...not a pretty story.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> Not all men, surely. ABS, IIRC, lost his balls in the Navy. Something to do with a mop mishap with a frigate...not a pretty story.



Never have lost my stones, and no, never been on a frigate.  WTF......are you talking to the sailors that you've been blowing on the waterfront, so that you can (in your own little misguided myopic way), try to figure out why I don't like you?

The answer is simple.  You and I were having a discussion, and I was being civil about it, at least, up until you decided to start calling me nasty names.

No....I don't call most women ****, bitch, or whatever.  I only call those names to some idiot bitch like yourself that doesn't have a clue.

You ain't never been where I've been, nor would you have the intestinal fortitude or the Thatchers to get through.  You're soft, weak and quite a bit narrow minded.

Sorry dear.......your perceived upper crust attitude is gonna kill ya.

Good luck bitch, you're gonna need it.


----------



## Ravi

Maybe you were drunk, ABS, but you are the one that started the name calling--



> No you stupid woman, I said that the border patrol is a SPECIALIZED PART OF THE POLICE FORCE LIKE SWAT. THEY FOLLOW SOME OF THE SAME FUCKING PROTOCOLS.
> 
> Pull your head out of your ass dear, and quit twisting other people's words.
> 
> I was in Security Forces for the Navy for over 4 years, and kinda had to get familiar with procedures. You, on the other hand, have zip point squat practical experience, and therefore have nothing to contribute other than hearsay and bullshit.



I don't care that you don't like me. I know why you don't though, because I asked you to back something up and you couldn't do it.


----------



## catzmeow

Ravi said:


> Maybe you were drunk, ABS, but you are the one that started the name calling--
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care that you don't like me. I know why you don't though, because I asked you to back something up and you couldn't do it.



I have to say:  I worked for a police department for 5 years, and have subsequently worked on law enforcement programs for the past 10, and I have NEVER known an officer on the scene of an officer-involved shooting to remove shell casings from the scene.

Major NO NO.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> Maybe you were drunk, ABS, but you are the one that started the name calling--
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care that you don't like me. I know why you don't though, because I asked you to back something up and you couldn't do it.



No bitch, I don't get drunk like you do when you post.  Why do you think my spelling is generally accurate?

And no.....you should really read the thread again.  You threw the first shot, I just responded.

Go back to blowing Sailors for candy bars and spare change ya fat cow.


----------



## Ravi

catzmeow said:


> I have to say:  I worked for a police department for 5 years, and have subsequently worked on law enforcement programs for the past 10, and I have NEVER known an officer on the scene of an officer-involved shooting to remove shell casings from the scene.
> 
> Major NO NO.


Yep. Not that the moron will ever admit it.

The funny thing is, if these guys had followed proper procedure they would have never been charged with anything. And that's why I think they are guilty...they didn't follow procedure because they had something to hide.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> And no.....you should really read the thread again.  You threw the first shot, I just responded.


Prove it. Show me where I called you a name before you called me one.


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> Maybe you were drunk,* ABS, but you are the one that started the name calling--*
> 
> 
> I don't care that you don't like me. I know why you don't though, because I asked you to back something up and you couldn't do it.






oopsie!


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ravi said:


> Prove it. Show me where I called you a name before you called me one.



Post 118.

I'm not a stupid woman, or are you too fucking blind to see my avatar?

Then......it got worse from there.

I just told you to pull your head out of your ass DEAR.


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Post 118.
> 
> I'm not a stupid woman, or are you too fucking blind to see my avatar?
> 
> Then......it got worse from there.
> 
> I just told you to pull your head out of your ass DEAR.


I was repeating your insults back at you, you stupid crybaby. I'll keep in mind that calling you a stupid women causes you a meltdown. It didn't bother me at all to be called one by an idiot like you.

lol


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> No you stupid woman, I said that the border patrol is a SPECIALIZED PART OF THE POLICE FORCE LIKE SWAT.  THEY FOLLOW SOME OF THE SAME FUCKING PROTOCOLS.
> 
> Pull your head out of your ass dear, and quit twisting other people's words.
> 
> I was in Security Forces for the Navy for over 4 years, and kinda had to get familiar with procedures.  You, on the other hand, have zip point squat practical experience, and therefore have nothing to contribute other than hearsay and bullshit.


Here you go, dimwit.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Did that justify calling me a shithead?


----------



## Ravi

ABikerSailor said:


> Did that justify calling me a shithead?


Can you read? I called you exactly what you called me...a stupid woman, dear, and get your head out of your ass. Which launched you into calling me a bitch and a **** and whatever else you called me. 

You're waaaayyyy too emotional for words.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Read the posts afterwards you dumb whore.

And.......for the longest time since I've been here on this board, whenever I heard others talking about what a bitch and stupid person you were, I kinda ignored it, because on occasion, you've got something decent to say.

But now?  I think of you like they do........not worth a bucket of warm dog spit.


----------



## indago

Why don't you two get a room...


----------



## DiveCon

indago said:


> Why don't you two get a room...


what for???
to kill eachother?


----------



## Ravi

awww....that really breaks my heart. 

Help me out here. You can call me all the names you wish but I am not allowed to return the favor in kind? Here is exactly how the conversation went. 

You're an idiot, seriously.


ABikerSailor said:


> Hey Ravi, have you ever been trained to shoot?  If so, you would understand (like the military does) to collect your brass (you know....the shell casings), after you fire them.  They can be reloaded.  Ask a military sniper sometime.
> 
> As far as only smuggling pot?  Well.......guess what......he's not only smuggled pot, but cocaine, weapons, illegals, and a whole lot of other bad shit.  Ramos and Compean were simply doing their jobs, and defending this country.
> 
> Or......would you like to see a border like another poster posted?  They'd said that the US/Mexican border would soon end up like the border between Gaza and Israel.
> 
> Oh yeah........it's already started to happen.......might wanna check the news sometime......Ever hear about the Native American border patrol agents?  They are used because they know how to track.  Weapons, cocaine, crime.....it's all coming in via Texas, Arizona, and California.  New Mexico on occasion.......
> 
> Might wanna start learning how to shoot and be accurate.  Ammo may end up in short supply soon.





Ravi said:


> In the case of a non-military shooting, and that's basically what this was, the evidence should be treated as if it was part of a crime scene...in other words, left for the investigators to draw their conclusions.





ABikerSailor said:


> Wrong.........what part of "border patrol" do you keep forgetting?  They're a specialized portion of the police, kinda like SWAT.
> 
> Nope.....they are supposed to follow military protocol.





Ravi said:


> Link?





ABikerSailor said:


> No link dear.......my service in the military isn't on the 'net.
> 
> Do your own research.





Ravi said:


> Or maybe you should back up your claims. Just a thought.





ABikerSailor said:


> No you stupid woman, I said that the border patrol is a SPECIALIZED PART OF THE POLICE FORCE LIKE SWAT.  THEY FOLLOW SOME OF THE SAME FUCKING PROTOCOLS.
> 
> Pull your head out of your ass dear, and quit twisting other people's words.
> 
> I was in Security Forces for the Navy for over 4 years, and kinda had to get familiar with procedures.  You, on the other hand, have zip point squat practical experience, and therefore have nothing to contribute other than hearsay and bullshit.





Ravi said:


> The Navy isn't border patrol, dear. SWAT teams are held accountable to the law, you stupid woman. Get your head out of your ass and quit pretending that the border patrol is part of the military.





ABikerSailor said:


> Okay............
> 
> Listen you twat faced ****, I didn't say that they were part of it, I said that they FOLLOW SOME OF THE SAME FUCKING PROTOCOLS.
> 
> Is it hard only being able to see out of your belly button?
> 
> Figures......you're probably a college chick who is scamming for a rich hubby, if you don't have one already.
> 
> You're almost as stupid as Elizabeth HasselBITCH from the View.
> 
> Oh yeah.......seen my fucking avatar bitch?  I'm a dude.
> 
> You're just a ****.


----------



## Ravi

indago said:


> Why don't you two get a room...


Okay, fine. I should just ignore the moron.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Yeah......put me on ignore.....

That actually works!


----------



## Anguille

Ravi said:


> awww....that really breaks my heart.
> 
> Help me out here. You can call me all the names you wish but I am not allowed to return the favor in kind? Here is exactly how the conversation went.
> 
> You're an idiot, seriously.




I don't think that means he dislikes you Ravi.

If he was really really mad at you for so succinctly  correcting him on police procedure, he would have called you a Muslim ****.


----------



## Ravi

Anguille said:


> I don't think that means he dislikes you Ravi.
> 
> If he was really really mad at you for so succinctly  correcting him on police procedure, he would have called you a Muslim ****.




He's a wussy one, that's for sure.


----------



## Ravi

Border Agent's Sentence...  01-21-2009 05:03 PM  ABikerSailor  Fuck you.
All this because you couldn't prove your assertion. Pretty lame.


----------



## indago

*CNN  LOU DOBBS TONIGHT  Aired January 21, 2009 - 19:00 ET*

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush this week commuting the prison sentences of former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. We on this broadcast have been reporting on this gross miscarriage of justice against these agents and their families for years. In this outrageous miscarriage of justice, Ramos and Compean were convicted of shooting a Mexican illegal alien drug smuggler who prosecutors both claimed was unarmed and to whom they gave immunity for his testimony against those agents. 

The Justice Department, in giving the illegal alien drug smuggler immunity also sought to seal and succeeded in sealing evidence that many consider exculpatory against those agents. And as Casey Wian now reports after spending nearly two years behind bars these agents have to wait two more months to win their release. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean may have to wait another two months to be reunited with their families. After two years behind bars, mostly in solitary confinement, their clemency does not become effective until March 20th. 

MONICA RAMOS, WIFE OF IGNACIO RAMOS: I think 60 days right now, we'll get through them. It's going to be very tough and to him, who's still sitting in segregation, he said 60 days is going to feel like a lifetime. 

WIAN: Before dealing with this case, President Bush had commuted just nine prison sentences during his eight years in office. Former White House official "Scooter" Libby received a commutation before serving any time, others took as long as four months to be released. A spokeswoman for the Bureau of Prisons tells LOU DOBBS TONIGHT it's possible the men could be out sooner than 60 days. They could be eligible for good behavior credit and could be sent to a halfway house. Those decisions are up to the prison where the former agents are incarcerated. 

Their attorneys are pursuing both those options. Still unclear why Mr. Bush waited so long to grant clemency to the agents, despite repeated demands for their release by more than 150 lawmakers and nearly half a million Americans. Last week, Congressman Walter Jones tried a different approach, appealing to the president's faith. 

REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I said, Mr. President, you profess to be a man of faith. Please get down on your knees and ask God if you should commute or pardon these two men and listen to God and I believe he will tell you yes. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but I think God did quite frankly. 

WIAN: Attorneys are continuing to pursue a Supreme Court reversal of their convictions or a full presidential pardon for Ramos and Compean. 

(END VIDEOTAPE) 

WIAN: And not everyone is applauding their impending release. At a news conference this week, Mexico's Deputy Secretary of Foreign Relations Carlos Rico (ph) said, quote, "this is a message of impunity, it's difficult to understand." He also acknowledged that Mexican officials had lobbied hard to prevent the former Border Patrol agent's release. Lou. 

DOBBS: A message of impunity, what in the world could he have meant by that? 

WIAN: I guess he's trying to get across the idea that if these agents were released from prison, it's going to give a license to other Border Patrol agents to shoot unarmed Mexican illegal aliens anytime they want to, which of course is a ridiculous notion. It's amazing that the Mexican government would criticize the Bush administration for finally releasing these two men who have served two years in prison. I think you'll remember the case of Border Patrol agent Luis Aguilera (ph) who was killed last year. The Mexican government released his alleged murderer on bail and we don't know where he is, Lou.

DOBBS: And they did so with impunity, I believe would be the word, according to the deputy foreign minister. But further at issue here is whether or not that drug smuggler was in point of fact armed or unarmed. Secondly, no question that he was a blatant and professional drug smuggler, third, the claims that he has been armed in previous drug runs. 

Fourth, the fact that the evidence that was  that he was in point of fact a professional drug smuggler was sealed from the jury. This is a gross miscarriage of justice. And now we hear from the Mexican government what we have suspected and what we have been reporting on this broadcast for two years now, that Mexican government direct interference with the U.S. government is the reason these two men went to prison. 

This is blatant. It is disgusting and for the government to act with such impunity and for their deputy foreign minister to come up with this position today is all the more galling. 

WIAN: Yes, Lou, and it also reminds me  and I'm sure you'll remember back in 2006 when the Department of Homeland Security's inspector general was Richard Skinner (ph), some of his officials went over to meet with members of Congress to address their concerns about the prosecution of these two agents.

Those Department of Homeland Security officials told members of Congress in a private meeting that they had evidence that these two Border Patrol agents said that they were out to shoot some Mexicans. That later proved not to be true. And the inspector general had to apologize to those members of Congress. It now seems like it's likely we know where that notion came from, Lou.

DOBBS: Richard, to put it more directly, Richard Skinner (ph) lied through his teeth to United States congressmen. He, to go back to the word of the deputy foreign minister of Mexico, he lied with impunity and he carried out, in large measure, this gross miscarriage of justice. In fact, the Department of Homeland Security, with the behest of the Mexican government, it now appears, led the investigation against these two agents, which is highly, highly irregular, rather than the Justice Department, correct? 

WIAN: Absolutely. You know, we asked Congressman Walter Jones of North Carolina, who's been involved in this case since the very beginning, trying to get these agents freed, what he thought of this admission by the Mexican foreign ministry, that they've been actively lobbying to keep these agents in jail, and he said, tell the Mexican government to keep the drug smugglers on their side of the border. 

DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. We're going to be following this story rigorously and, yes, relentlessly. Until this story is concluded with what we hope will be a very happy ending for these border patrol agents, their families and, frankly, this country. This is an extraordinary, an extraordinary development, the statements of the deputy foreign minister of Mexico, and the fact that it appears quite clear now that the Bush administration if his statements are true, that the Bush administration was nothing more than a witting tool of the Mexican government, a deplorable development. Thank you very much, Casey. We look forward to your reporting on this until the days and weeks ahead. Thank you.


----------



## Ravi

IMO, Dobbs is the tool.

Why have they been in solitary? Or is that even true.


----------



## indago

Ravi said:


> IMO, Dobbs is the tool.
> 
> Why have they been in solitary? Or is that even true.



AGENTS 1

AGENTS 2

AGENTS 3

AGENTS 4


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> IMO, Dobbs is the tool.
> 
> Why have they been in solitary? Or is that even true.





because the general population (which happen to be illegals) tried to beat the shit out of one of them. best as I can remember.


----------



## Sky Dancer

The general prison population often has a grudge on LE types who end up in prison.


----------



## Ravi

indago said:


> AGENTS 1
> 
> AGENTS 2
> 
> AGENTS 3
> 
> AGENTS 4


Thanks. I researched it and found out that it is common practice to put convicted law enforcement officers in solitary.


----------



## catzmeow

Ravi said:


> He's a wussy one, that's for sure.



Can't we take up a collection to buy ABS some pamprin?


----------



## indago

Ravi said:


> Thanks. I researched it and found out that it is common practice to put convicted law enforcement officers in solitary.



Ramos was not put in solitary until *AFTER* the attack.


----------



## Ravi

indago said:


> Ramos was not put in solitary until *AFTER* the attack.


He's the one that didn't want to be segregated. I'm kind of surprised the prison granted him that wish.



> Ramos was beaten up in February 2007 when he began serving his sentence at Yazoo City Federal Correctional Complex in Mississippi, after being recognized by inmates from a popular television program. At that time, he had been imprisoned for less than a week and had requested not to be segregated. He was transferred later to the Federal Correctional Institution in Phoenix, where he has remained segregated.


Washington Times - Backers of jailed border agents appeal to Bush


----------



## Mr. Jones

Modbert said:


> Gee, if I shot a shot a fleeing, unarmed person and then lied about it, you'd think I could get my sentence commuted too?


 It was said they were framed by the prosecutor? "The case added fuel to the heated immigration debate in 2006 as conservatives and border security groups rallied behind the two former agents. CNN&#8217;s Lou Dobbs and other media pundits have demanded their release, as have some members of Congress from both parties." Why such an outcry of injustice especially if they tried to cover up the shooting? I dont get it.


----------



## Ravi

Mr. Jones said:


> It was said they were framed by the prosecutor? "The case added fuel to the heated immigration debate in 2006 as conservatives and border security groups rallied behind the two former agents. CNNs Lou Dobbs and other media pundits have demanded their release, as have some members of Congress from both parties." Why such an outcry of injustice especially if they tried to cover up the shooting? I dont get it.


Because people hate Mexicans more than they hate bad cops.


----------



## catzmeow

Ravi said:


> Because people hate Mexicans more than they hate bad cops.



SOME people.  I don't particularly like illegal immigrants, and I've dealt with a shit-ton of them, many of whom were here for the express purposes of trafficking methamphetamine, cocaine, and marijuana, but...

Dirty cops undermine public confidence in our entire system of justice.

Our nation is one that is built upon a foundation of the rule of law (hence, we're a republic).

Undermining that foundation is detrimental to all of us, and causes grievous harm.

We can't tolerate dirty cops, regardless of their political motivations.  We have to be able to trust that those who have the role of enforcing our roles are themselves law-abiding.

This is basic, fundamental stuff here.


----------



## DiveCon

Ravi said:


> Because people hate Mexicans more than they hate bad cops.


Ravi, do you not understand the difference between hating Mexicans and hating illegal immigration?
(btw, up until recently, the largest group of illegals were WHITE EUROPEANS)


----------



## Ravi

catzmeow said:


> SOME people.  I don't particularly like illegal immigrants, and I've dealt with a shit-ton of them, many of whom were here for the express purposes of trafficking methamphetamine, cocaine, and marijuana, but...
> 
> Dirty cops undermine public confidence in our entire system of justice.
> 
> Our nation is one that is built upon a foundation of the rule of law (hence, we're a republic).
> 
> Undermining that foundation is detrimental to all of us, and causes grievous harm.
> 
> We can't tolerate dirty cops, regardless of their political motivations.  We have to be able to trust that those who have the role of enforcing our roles are themselves law-abiding.
> 
> This is basic, fundamental stuff here.


Yuh, I should have said some, but in reality I think it is most. I honestly can't think of another reason that so many would be willing to excuse the criminal behavior of cops.


----------



## Ravi

DiveCon said:


> Ravi, do you not understand the difference between hating Mexicans and hating illegal immigration?
> (btw, up until recently, the largest group of illegals were WHITE EUROPEANS)


Sometimes. Other times I don't think there's a big difference. How often do we have cops shooting at Canadian border crossers, for instance? Or your white europeans?


----------



## Sky Dancer

Which white illegal immigrants were hated, dive?


----------



## DiveCon

Ravi said:


> Sometimes. Other times I don't think there's a big difference. How often do we have cops shooting at Canadian border crossers, for instance? Or your white europeans?


maybe the ones that were sumggling drugs


----------



## DiveCon

Jalu said:


> Which white illegal immigrants were hated, dive?


all of them


actually, hate is the wrong word
but wanting them to be sent back where they came from under our immigration laws


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Ravi said:


> Yuh, I should have said some, but in reality I think it is most. I honestly can't think of another reason that so many would be willing to excuse the criminal behavior of cops.



It has NOTHING to do with the criminals nationality you ditz it is because he is a CRIMINAL that smuggles drugs into the country. And he did not JUST cross the border to be in America , he crossed to deliver DRUGS illegally to be sold in America. You know, he is a fucking CRIMINAL.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Ravi said:


> Sometimes. Other times I don't think there's a big difference. How often do we have cops shooting at Canadian border crossers, for instance? Or your white europeans?



The ones smuggling drugs and resisting arrest get shot at no matter which border dumb shit.


----------



## Sky Dancer

DiveCon said:


> all of them
> 
> 
> actually, hate is the wrong word
> but wanting them to be sent back where they came from under our immigration laws



I don't remember this as a big issue.  Public outcry for the deportation of white illegal immigrants.  It's those brown skinned folks we seem to be up in arms about.

I remember knowing Greek immigrants that had come into the US illegally.  It didn't seem such a big deal.  I don't remember anyone suggesting they should be deported or shot at when they jumped ship.


----------



## DiveCon

Jalu said:


> I don't remember this as a big issue.  Public outcry for the deportation of white illegal immigrants.  It's those brown skinned folks we seem to be up in arms about.
> 
> I remember knowing Greek immigrants that had come into the US illegally.  It didn't seem such a big deal.


then either you havent been paying attention, or you hang out with a shit load of racists


----------



## Sky Dancer

I don't understand the comment, dive.


----------



## DiveCon

Jalu said:


> I don't understand the comment, dive.


if you only knew people that wanted just mexican illegals deported, then those people are RACISTS
the people i talk to want ALL illegals deported reguardless of where they came from


----------



## Sky Dancer

DiveCon said:


> if you only knew people that wanted just mexican illegals deported, then those people are RACISTS
> the people i talk to want ALL illegals deported reguardless of where they came from




It's been a big deal to deport illegal immigrants since they arrive in large numbers and happen to be brown.

My point is that it wasn't a problem for illegal white Europeans to sneak into the US without all this ugly brouhahaha.

Chances are it's still not a big deal for whites to sneak in and fly under the radar.


----------



## Tech_Esq

Jalu said:


> It's been a big deal to deport illegal immigrants since they arrive in large numbers and happen to be brown.
> 
> My point is that it wasn't a problem for illegal white Europeans to sneak into the US without all this ugly brouhahaha.
> 
> Chances are it's still not a big deal for whites to sneak in and fly under the radar.



I don't understand. What is the "not a big deal" standard?


----------



## DiveCon

Jalu said:


> It's been a big deal to deport illegal immigrants since they arrive in large numbers and happen to be brown.
> 
> My point is that it wasn't a problem for illegal white Europeans to sneak into the US without all this ugly brouhahaha.
> 
> Chances are it's still not a big deal for whites to sneak in and fly under the radar.


well, then maybe its YOU that has the racist tendencies if you dont think it was a "big deal" to have whites breaking the law


----------



## Harry Dresden

Jalu said:


> It's been a big deal to deport illegal immigrants since they arrive in large numbers and happen to be brown.



only just recently ( with the brownies).....20-30 years ago this was no big deal,but since there are now 10 fucking million of them,and most in the last 10-15 years,it has a big  effect on the local economy,its somewhat more noticable....dont ya think....and a big negative to this is,many are taking from the system and are either not putting anything OR very little back in.....


----------



## indago

*CNN  LOU DOBBS TONIGHT  Aired January 22, 2009 - 19:00 ET*

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Rising anger tonight over Mexico's government's outright meddling in U.S. affairs. The government of Mexico blasted the commutation of the prison sentences of former Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Compean. They've been in prison since January of 2007 for shooting and wounding a Mexican illegal alien drug smuggler who was given immunity to testify against those agents. Casey Wian now reports on the government of Mexico's outright intervention and meddling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The government of Mexico has been involved in the case of former U.S. Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean from the beginning. The agents shot and wounded Mexican illegal alien Oswaldo Aldreti-Davila in February of 2004 after he abandoned this van filled with more than 700 pounds of marijuana.

Davila escaped across the Rio Grande. Weeks later, a friend of his family contacted the Border Patrol. And the U.S. Department of Homeland Security began an investigation that led to the convictions of Ramos and Compean. They were sentenced to 11 and 12 years in prison. Chief prosecutor has repeatedly denied the Mexican government influenced the case.

DOBBS: The Mexican Consulate contacted who?

JOHNNY SUTTON, U.S. ATTORNEY: The Mexican Consulate wrote the standard letter they always write in these cases.

DOBBS: You sure it is a standard letter?

SUTTON: I don't know. The letter was sent to the Homeland Security. But I can tell you that this case originated like any other case that we try in El Paso.

WIAN: Mexican authorities located Davila who was initially reluctant to cooperate with U.S. Homeland Security investigators.

Eventually the U.S. Justice Department offered Davila medical care and immunity from prosecution to testify against Ramos and Compean. Prosecutors said he was unarmed when shot. In July 2007, a House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee held hearings on Mexico's role in the case. The Departments of Homeland Security and Justice declined to appear. The State Department sent two deputy assistant secretaries who were unable to provide definitive answers.

REP. BILL DELAHUNT, (D) MA: Are you aware of any other U.S. government agencies' communications with the Mexican government?

GREG STARR, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: There were not notes exchange, that's correct.

CHARLES SHAPIRO, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: I mean, I've seen them because I've pulled them out of the case file. And your staff sent me stuff. Other folks have sent me stuff. In fact, I've seen communications between the Mexican Consul in El Paso, and if I'm not mistaken, Border Patrol.

STARR: Correct.

SHAPIRO: Where they asked to have consular access to this individual.

WIAN: After former President Bush commuted the sentences of Ramos and Compean Monday, Mexico's deputy secretary for foreign relations Carlos Rico said, "It send a message of impunity." Rico added his government lobbied to keep the agents in prison. But the efforts of what he called anti-immigrant groups had more influence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's clearly unfounded. And it really demonstrates the ignorance of American justice.

WIAN: The National Border Patrol Council said in a statement while it is "not surprised in the least by the admission of the Mexican government that it lobbied long and hard for the prosecution of Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean and against clemency for them, it is sickened by the fact that our own government acceded to those outrageous demands."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN (on camera): The Border Patrol union also called on President Obama and Congress to immediately begin an investigation. The Mexican Embassy did not respond to our request for a comment. Lou?

DOBBS: Now, talk about impunity. The fact that the deputy foreign minister would have the impunity to make such a statement, and that the government should conduct itself, the government of Mexico, conduct itself  I mean, this is truly ignorance. But the ignorance is such a mild degree of ignorance as compared to that of the Bush administration, through its Departments of Justice, its Department of Homeland Security, that I mean, it is absolutely unimaginable that George W. Bush, the president of the United States, and his administration, tolerated such interference.

WIAN: The key question that we'd really like to get answered, Lou, is when did this admitted lobbying by the Mexican government begin. Did it just start once the agents got into prison and border security activists and others were calling for their release? Did it start at the very beginning? They're not answering those questions now, Lou. Perhaps it's going to take the subpoena power of someone in Congress to find out the answers from the U.S. side.

DOBBS: Congressman Delahunt has done his level best, as have a number of congressmen, trying to get some answers. And the fact is they've been stone walled by their own party, their own government and the Bush administration has much to answer for.

I appreciate that George Bush commuted the sentences of these two agents. But man, are there still important questions to be answered here. And they are answers that the American people deserve. Thank you very much, Casey. Casey Wian.


----------



## indago

*CNN  LOU DOBBS TONIGHT  Aired January 22, 2009 - 19:00 ET*

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me now with more, four congressman who fought hard and who continue to fight to clear the names of Ramos and Compean, Congressman Ted Poe and Congressman Walter Jones join us, as does Congressman John Culberson and Congressman Dana Rohrabacher. It's good to have you all here. Thank you very much. I've got to say, put it this way. The fact that a government official of Mexico has admitted their intrusion into the affairs of the United States government in this case, working against the processes of both the investigation, prosecution, and ultimately pardon or commutation of sentences, how do each of you feel? I want to start with you Congressman Rohrabacher.

REP. DANA ROHRABACHER, (R) CA: Well, take a look at the answer Mr. Sutton gave you. People should look at the clip that you just presented to the public. When you asked him specifically about the Mexican government's involvement, the answer he gave you was a lie.

Now, technically if you studied the words, maybe those words can be construed as being true. But in reality, they were put together to create a false impression that the Mexican government wasn't involved.

Mr. Sutton, this is the way they prosecuted these two Border Patrol agents from day one. It's been a lie from day one. The Mexican government has been involved. We need to know the details.

And why is the Mexican government involved? Hey, remember, they have troubles with the drug cartel influencing government down there. So their government that influences our government to prosecute the Border Patrol agents when they stop a drug dealer? There's a lot of questions that need to be answered.

DOBBS: Congressman Culberson and Congressman Poe, both of you signed on for the letter for the Texas congressional delegation asking for the commutation of these agents. What are your thoughts tonight, and the way it appears tonight that the Bush administration acceded to the government of Mexico in very important affairs of its own citizens?

REP. JOHN CULBERSON, (R) TX: Lou, I can tell you, I serve on the Appropriations Subcommittee with responsibility for funding the Department of Justice and Homeland Security, and I intend to vigorously pursue this through my subcommittee. I'm going to make sure we get these questions answered. We know, for example, as Judge Poe will tell you, that a deputy sheriff in South Texas was prosecuted at the request of the Mexican government.

We now know Ramos and Compean were persecuted, prosecuted, hounded because of the Mexican government. It is unacceptable. It is outrageous for any foreign nation to be able to direct the prosecution of our own law enforcement officers. Lou, I'm not going to stand for it and I'm going to get answers.

DOBBS: Congressman Poe?

REP. TED POE, (R) TX: We've always thought the Mexican government was involved in this case ever since the U.S. Attorney's office made the back room deal with the drug dealer. I thought that they made a backroom deal with the Mexican government at the same time. It looks like that all throughout this case.

We certainly want to find out their involvement. You know, frankly, I don't care what the Mexican government thinks about cases that are prosecuted in the United States. They should have no impact on our justice system, of all things, influencing our courts on who ought to be prosecuted, and who shouldn't be.

So we're going to investigate it, serve on the Judiciary Committee. We'll look into the involvement and the lobbying of the Mexican government.

DOBBS: And Congressman Jones, just your thoughts here tonight? I mean, the idea that the Bush administration had so little principles, so little guts and so little regard for the rights and the well-being of two of its citizens serving the nation in uniform, protecting our border, I mean, your thoughts here tonight?

REP. WALTER JONES, (R) NC: Yes, sir. Lou, I'm going to tell you, to the question you asked the American people, I will give you my answer, yes, they should be investigated. And I believe sincerely that the Congress has the responsibility to look into any relationship that the past administration has with Mexico, or any other country to the detriment of the American people. And in this case, I would say to the Mexican government, keep your drug dealers in Mexico, and let us take care of our border agents.

DOBBS: All right. Thank you very much. Congressman, I appreciate it. We're out of time. I hope you'll come back as we continue to explore this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lou? Thank you for your leadership to make this possible.


----------



## catzmeow

Ravi said:


> Sometimes. Other times I don't think there's a big difference. How often do we have cops shooting at Canadian border crossers, for instance? Or your white europeans?



In all fairness, the attempts by the Mexican government to subvert our border is an inherently hostile act.  I have never seen similar attempts coming from Canada.

Nor is the Canadian government heavily involved in protecting drug dealers and thugs who are attempting to cross the border.  The mexican army has been.

I don't believe it's racism, I think that a hostile act, i.e. actively supporting your citizens in breaking the laws of another country tends to create a fairly hostile response.


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## Agnapostate

I would welcome any attempts to destroy the Mexican government and army if only because the EZLN might gain a foothold. Even the PRD and Lopez Obrador's faction may be willing to aid a Zapatista takeover.


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## andrewwang

Maybe they shouldnt have been released.


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## OpenJumper1

WillowTree said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, if I shot a shot a fleeing, unarmed person and then lied about it, you'd think I could get my sentence commuted too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not if I have any say so in the matter!
Click to expand...



Well if the unarmed person is a dangerous druggie and drug dealer who if armed would have shot to kill and not even think about it?
They should have gotten a dang commendation for their heroic acts.  When you listen to the blathering of a corrupt DA hired by a corrupt POTUS.........then you drink kool aid with your sheeple lips!


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## catzmeow

OpenJumper1 said:


> Well if the unarmed person is a dangerous druggie and drug dealer who if armed would have shot to kill and not even think about it?
> They should have gotten a dang commendation for their heroic acts.  When you listen to the blathering of a corrupt DA hired by a corrupt POTUS.........then you drink kool aid with your sheeple lips!



How exactly is a police officer supposed to know, from a distance, that a person is "a dangerous druggie and drug dealer"?

Do you think that the average officer is able to make that sort of distinction prior to having contact with a suspect and running an NCIC check?

Speaking of drinking the kool aid....


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## ABikerSailor

catzmeow said:


> OpenJumper1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well if the unarmed person is a dangerous druggie and drug dealer who if armed would have shot to kill and not even think about it?
> They should have gotten a dang commendation for their heroic acts.  When you listen to the blathering of a corrupt DA hired by a corrupt POTUS.........then you drink kool aid with your sheeple lips!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How exactly is a police officer supposed to know, from a distance, that a person is "a dangerous druggie and drug dealer"?
> 
> Do you think that the average officer is able to make that sort of distinction prior to having contact with a suspect and running an NCIC check?
> 
> Speaking of drinking the kool aid....
Click to expand...


Well, considering that they were border agents, and knew the type of MO as well as they types of vehicles, movement patterns and all that.....they were probably drug dealers.

It was proven when they were told to stop, and then turned around and boogied.  If they were just illegals, they would have asked for a meal and a ride back to the border.

That is why that prick was shot.  Oh yeah.......they also had a file on him, and it wasn't the first time that he'd ran drugs across the border.

Try again.


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