# 71 Years



## Unkotare

Another year since a pivotal moment in human history. 





Japan calls on leaders to follow Obama and visit Hiroshima


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## Penelope

That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died. 

But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".


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## Unkotare

Penelope said:


> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".




WWII was a horrible, global catastrophe. There are many important aspects of that terrible conflict that we must remember.


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## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Another year since a pivotal moment in human history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan calls on leaders to follow Obama and visit Hiroshima


Let's celebrate Hiroshima Day by reading from the book Unbroken:

Louie had been on Kwajalein for about a week when his cell door was thrown open and two guards pulled him out. He flushed with fear, thinking that he was being taken to the sword. As he was hustled toward what seemed to be an officers’ quarters, he passed two girls with Asian features, walking with heads down, eyes averted, as they retreated from the building. … The ranking officer stared coolly at his captive. How do American soldiers satisfy their sexual appetites? he asked. Louie replied that they don’t— they rely on willpower. The officer was amused. The Japanese military, he said, provides women for its soldiers, an allusion to the thousands of Chinese, Korean, Indonesian, and Filipino women whom the Japanese military had kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery. Louie thought of the girls outside. …

And then there was Gaga. Something about this affectionate little duck, perhaps the fact that he was beloved to the captives, provoked the guards. They tortured him mercilessly, kicking him and hurling him around. Then one day, in full view of the captives, Shithead opened his pants and violated the bird. Gaga died. Of all the things he witnessed in war, Louie would say, this was the worst. …

Raymond “Hap” Halloran was a navigator who parachuted into Tokyo after his B-29 was shot down. Once on the ground, Halloran was beaten by a mob of civilians, then captured by Japanese authorities, who tortured him, locked him in a pig cage, and held him in a burning horse stall during the firebombings. They stripped him naked and put him on display at Tokyo’s Ueno Zoo, tied upright in an empty tiger cage so civilians could gawk at his filthy, sore-encrusted body. He was starved so severely that he lost one hundred pounds. …

The Japanese military surrounded the city of Nanking, stranding more than half a million civilians and 90,000 Chinese soldiers. The soldiers surrendered and, assured of their safety, submitted to being bound. Japanese officers then issued a written order: ALL PRISONERS OF WAR ARE TO BE EXECUTED. What followed was a six-week frenzy of killing that defies articulation. Masses of POWs were beheaded, machine-gunned, bayoneted, and burned alive. The Japanese turned on civilians, engaging in killing contests, raping tens of thousands of people, mutilating and crucifying them, and provoking dogs to maul them. Japanese soldiers took pictures of themselves posing alongside hacked-up bodies, severed heads, and women strapped down for rape. The Japanese press ran tallies of the killing contests as if they were baseball scores, praising the heroism of the contestants. Historians estimate that the Japanese military murdered between 200,000 and 430,000 Chinese, including the 90,000 POWs, in what became known as the Rape of Nanking. …

Away from their officers, the guards told a different story, telling the POWs that the army had issued orders to kill them all in August. This might have been dismissed as a lie, but that July, a civilian worker known for his sympathy for POWs warned a prisoner that an execution date had been set. The date he gave was the same as one that had reportedly been mentioned to prisoners in at least two other camps. All of the Naoetsu POWs, the civilian said, would be killed on August 22. …

The POWs were so disturbed by the obvious famine among the civilians that they stopped stealing at the work sites. It was clear to them that Japan had long ago lost this war. But Japan was a long way from giving in. If a massively destructive air war would not win surrender, invasion seemed the only possibility. POWs all over the country were noticing worrisome signs. They saw women holding sharpened sticks, practicing lunges at stacks of rice straw, and small children being lined up in front of schools, handed wooden mock guns, and drilled. Japan, whose people deemed surrender shameful, appeared to be preparing to fight to the last man, woman, or child. …

In its rampage over the east, Japan had brought atrocity and death on a scale that staggers the imagination. In the midst of it were the prisoners of war. Japan held some 132,000 POWs from America, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Holland, and Australia. Of those, nearly 36,000 died, more than one in every four. Americans fared particularly badly; of the 34,648 Americans held by Japan, 12,935— more than 37 percent— died. By comparison, only 1 percent of Americans held by the Nazis and Italians died. Japan murdered thousands of POWs on death marches, and worked thousands of others to death in slavery, including some 16,000 POWs who died alongside as many as 100,000 Asian laborers forced to build the Burma-Siam Railway. Thousands of other POWs were beaten, burned, stabbed, or clubbed to death, shot, beheaded, killed during medical experiments, or eaten alive in ritual acts of cannibalism. And as a result of being fed grossly inadequate and befouled food and water, thousands more died of starvation and easily preventable diseases. Of the 2,500 POWs at Borneo’s Sandakan camp, only 6, all escapees, made it to September 1945 alive. Left out of the numbing statistics are untold numbers of men who were captured and killed on the spot or dragged to places like Kwajalein, to be murdered without the world ever learning their fate. …

In accordance with the kill-all order, the Japanese massacred all 5,000 Korean captives on Tinian, all of the POWs on Ballale, Wake, and Tarawa, and all but 11 POWs at Palawan. They were evidently about to murder all the other POWs and civilian internees in their custody when the atomic bomb brought their empire crashing down. On the morning of September 2, 1945, Japan signed its formal surrender. The Second World War was over.


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## Steven_R

We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.


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## Unkotare

MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb


"Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:



The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"



"Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:



The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"

"On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:

said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"



"On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:

[General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)



The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:


General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"


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## Unkotare

Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)


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## williepete

Today is the anniversary of the 2nd bombing.

Kokura Luck:
The Missions | The Story of Nagasaki | Tale of Two Cites: Hiroshima and Nagasaki | History of the Atomic Age | atomicarchive.com


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## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"


Totally hog slop.  I knew Marines who were in the Pacific at the time the bombs were dropped.  When they heard about the atomic bombs everyone knew the war was over.  The biggest problem for my buddies was keeping the men fighting as _battles were still being fought after the bombs were dropped.
_
Add to that after the bombs there was a coup attempt of the Emporer to keep from surrendering.


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## Weatherman2020

Penelope said:


> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".


Really pisses the Jew haters off.  ZEIG HEIL!


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## williepete

Weatherman2020 said:


> Add to that after the bombs there was a coup attempt of the Emporer to keep from surrendering.



Kyūjō incident

The Kyūjō Incident: A night-time coup in Tokyo


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## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally hog slop. .......
Click to expand...



Direct quotes from key military and political leaders is "hog slop"? Try again.


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## Penelope

Weatherman2020 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".
> 
> 
> 
> Really pisses the Jew haters off.  ZEIG HEIL!
Click to expand...


How they have made it all about them, is well sickening to say the least, but then aain, they are the "chosen ones"
LOL.


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## Weatherman2020

Penelope said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".
> 
> 
> 
> Really pisses the Jew haters off.  ZEIG HEIL!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How they have made it all about them, is well sickening to say the least, but then aain, they are the "chosen ones"
> LOL.
Click to expand...

This is a thread about the bombing of Japan.  The only one screaming about Jews is the racist bigot, you.


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## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally hog slop. .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Direct quotes from key military and political leaders is "hog slop"? Try again.
Click to expand...

I don't believe those are real quotes.


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## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally hog slop. .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Direct quotes from key military and political leaders is "hog slop"? Try again.
Click to expand...

And I can prove those are not real quotes.  The Japanese did not attempt to surrender prior Hiroshima.


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## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally hog slop. .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Direct quotes from key military and political leaders is "hog slop"? Try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't believe those are real quotes.
Click to expand...



By all means, disprove them if you can.


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally hog slop. .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Direct quotes from key military and political leaders is "hog slop"? Try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I can prove those are not real quotes.  ......
Click to expand...



Go ahead...


----------



## Unkotare

You're going to have to take it up with the Chicago Tribune, for one thing.


Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)


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## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally hog slop. .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Direct quotes from key military and political leaders is "hog slop"? Try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I can prove those are not real quotes.  ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead...
Click to expand...

i just did.  Japan did not state they would surrender.  Just 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima was Okinawa - 46,000 US casualties.  After Hiroshima still no contact for surrender.  Finally after Nagasaki they contacted us.  I own the Halsey files - everything he said and wrote in WW2.  While I have not read all of it that statement sounds out of character.

But if you want to insist fire bombing should have been continued instead, thats your cross to bear.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> You're going to have to take it up with the Chicago Tribune, for one thing.
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)


I can find paper articles from reporters about aliens, sea monsters and God, doesn't prove anything. The 46,000 American casualties and the extensive use of kamakazee pilots in that battle just 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima tells anyone where Japan stood.


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally hog slop. .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Direct quotes from key military and political leaders is "hog slop"? Try again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I can prove those are not real quotes.  ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just did.  .....
Click to expand...



Insistence is not proof. I provided links and direct quotes.


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to have to take it up with the Chicago Tribune, for one thing.
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> I can find paper articles from reporters about aliens, sea monsters and God, doesn't prove anything. The 46,000 American casualties and the extensive use of kamakazee pilots in that battle just 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima tells anyone where Japan stood.
Click to expand...



You have no proof at all. You are stomping your little feet and sticking your fingers in your ears.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to have to take it up with the Chicago Tribune, for one thing.
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> I can find paper articles from reporters about aliens, sea monsters and God, doesn't prove anything. The 46,000 American casualties and the extensive use of kamakazee pilots in that battle just 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima tells anyone where Japan stood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no proof at all. You are stomping your little feet and sticking your fingers in your ears.
Click to expand...

You have bogus quotes, I have historical facts and personal accounts.


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to have to take it up with the Chicago Tribune, for one thing.
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> I can find paper articles from reporters about aliens, sea monsters and God, doesn't prove anything. The 46,000 American casualties and the extensive use of kamakazee pilots in that battle just 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima tells anyone where Japan stood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no proof at all. You are stomping your little feet and sticking your fingers in your ears.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have bogus quotes....
Click to expand...








Prove the quotes are bogus. That is now YOUR claim.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to have to take it up with the Chicago Tribune, for one thing.
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> I can find paper articles from reporters about aliens, sea monsters and God, doesn't prove anything. The 46,000 American casualties and the extensive use of kamakazee pilots in that battle just 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima tells anyone where Japan stood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no proof at all. You are stomping your little feet and sticking your fingers in your ears.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have bogus quotes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove the quotes are bogus. That is now YOUR claim.
Click to expand...

It's your quotes. It's not my job.

Fact remains, on May 8 when Germany surrendered Japan issued a Decleration they had no intention of surrendering, 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima 46,000 American casualties on Okinawa, two weeks prior the Potsdam Decleration was issued for Japan to surrender which was ignored, 2 days after Hiroshima Russia declared war on Japan, and not until a week after Nagasaki did Japan declare they would surrender.  And that was only after a failed coup to keep the war going.

Your supposed quotes have no room to fit in the historical timeline.


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to have to take it up with the Chicago Tribune, for one thing.
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> I can find paper articles from reporters about aliens, sea monsters and God, doesn't prove anything. The 46,000 American casualties and the extensive use of kamakazee pilots in that battle just 6 weeks prior to Hiroshima tells anyone where Japan stood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no proof at all. You are stomping your little feet and sticking your fingers in your ears.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have bogus quotes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove the quotes are bogus. That is now YOUR claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's your quotes. It's not my job......
Click to expand...



It is now. I have provided, links, evidence, official reporting, and direct quotes. YOU have made the claim that these are false. I have given you all you need to check the sources. Now YOU have to support YOUR claim, you illogical, flightless fowl.


----------



## Unkotare

Was Hiroshima Necessary?

"General/President Dwight Eisenhower discusses this in his 1963 memoir, _The White House Years: Mandate for Change_, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313). When he was informed in mid-July 1945 by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson of the decision to use the atomic bomb, he was deeply troubled."

*“I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to [Stimson] my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’ ” *(source)

*“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” *(source)

Was Hiroshima Necessary?


"Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the_Washington Times_ on August 19th, 1945."

"Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye-opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:


Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war
Release of all prisoners of war and internees
Surrender of designated war criminals
Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders *“with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.” *(source)

Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:

*Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. *

*Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. *

*I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds. *(source)"


The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War



"Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:

*It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan … The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons … My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children. *(source)

There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:

On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a *“toy and they wanted to try it out…”* He further stated that *“the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment” *and that it was* “a mistake to ever drop it.” *(source)

He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try to encourage him not to drop the bomb."


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> "General/President Dwight Eisenhower discusses this in his 1963 memoir, _The White House Years: Mandate for Change_, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313). When he was informed in mid-July 1945 by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson of the decision to use the atomic bomb, he was deeply troubled."
> 
> *“I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to [Stimson] my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’ ” *(source)
> 
> *“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” *(source)
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> 
> "Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the_Washington Times_ on August 19th, 1945."
> 
> "Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye-opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees
> Surrender of designated war criminals
> Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders *“with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.” *(source)
> 
> Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:
> 
> *Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. *
> 
> *Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. *
> 
> *I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds. *(source)"
> 
> 
> The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War
> 
> 
> 
> "Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:
> 
> *It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan … The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons … My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children. *(source)
> 
> There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:
> 
> On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a *“toy and they wanted to try it out…”* He further stated that *“the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment” *and that it was* “a mistake to ever drop it.” *(source)
> 
> He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try to encourage him not to drop the bomb."


Your source, Institute for Historical Review, is a hate group that denies the holocaust and has links to neo Nazis. So yes, like I said, your supposed quotes have no room in the historical timeline.


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> "General/President Dwight Eisenhower discusses this in his 1963 memoir, _The White House Years: Mandate for Change_, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313). When he was informed in mid-July 1945 by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson of the decision to use the atomic bomb, he was deeply troubled."
> 
> *“I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to [Stimson] my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’ ” *(source)
> 
> *“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” *(source)
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> 
> "Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the_Washington Times_ on August 19th, 1945."
> 
> "Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye-opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees
> Surrender of designated war criminals
> Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders *“with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.” *(source)
> 
> Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:
> 
> *Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. *
> 
> *Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. *
> 
> *I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds. *(source)"
> 
> 
> The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War
> 
> 
> 
> "Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:
> 
> *It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan … The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons … My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children. *(source)
> 
> There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:
> 
> On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a *“toy and they wanted to try it out…”* He further stated that *“the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment” *and that it was* “a mistake to ever drop it.” *(source)
> 
> He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try to encourage him not to drop the bomb."
> 
> 
> 
> Your source, Institute for Historical Review, is a hate group that denies the holocaust and has links to neo Nazis. So yes, like I said, your supposed quotes have no room in the historical timeline.
Click to expand...



How about the University of Colorado, Boulder? You have still failed to support your claim in any way.


----------



## Unkotare

On the Sixty-Sixth Anniversary of the Bombing of Hiroshima - Gar Alperovitz


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> "General/President Dwight Eisenhower discusses this in his 1963 memoir, _The White House Years: Mandate for Change_, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313). When he was informed in mid-July 1945 by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson of the decision to use the atomic bomb, he was deeply troubled."
> 
> *“I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to [Stimson] my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’ ” *(source)
> 
> *“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” *(source)
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> 
> "Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the_Washington Times_ on August 19th, 1945."
> 
> "Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye-opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees
> Surrender of designated war criminals
> Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders *“with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.” *(source)
> 
> Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:
> 
> *Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. *
> 
> *Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. *
> 
> *I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds. *(source)"
> 
> 
> The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War
> 
> 
> 
> "Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:
> 
> *It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan … The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons … My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children. *(source)
> 
> There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:
> 
> On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a *“toy and they wanted to try it out…”* He further stated that *“the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment” *and that it was* “a mistake to ever drop it.” *(source)
> 
> He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try to encourage him not to drop the bomb."
> 
> 
> 
> Your source, Institute for Historical Review, is a hate group that denies the holocaust and has links to neo Nazis. So yes, like I said, your supposed quotes have no room in the historical timeline.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about the University of Colorado, Boulder? You have still failed to support your claim in any way.
Click to expand...

It's your quotes, not my job to prove a negative.


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> "General/President Dwight Eisenhower discusses this in his 1963 memoir, _The White House Years: Mandate for Change_, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313). When he was informed in mid-July 1945 by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson of the decision to use the atomic bomb, he was deeply troubled."
> 
> *“I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to [Stimson] my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’ ” *(source)
> 
> *“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” *(source)
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> 
> "Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the_Washington Times_ on August 19th, 1945."
> 
> "Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye-opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees
> Surrender of designated war criminals
> Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders *“with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.” *(source)
> 
> Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:
> 
> *Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. *
> 
> *Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. *
> 
> *I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds. *(source)"
> 
> 
> The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War
> 
> 
> 
> "Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:
> 
> *It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan … The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons … My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children. *(source)
> 
> There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:
> 
> On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a *“toy and they wanted to try it out…”* He further stated that *“the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment” *and that it was* “a mistake to ever drop it.” *(source)
> 
> He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try to encourage him not to drop the bomb."
> 
> 
> 
> Your source, Institute for Historical Review, is a hate group that denies the holocaust and has links to neo Nazis. So yes, like I said, your supposed quotes have no room in the historical timeline.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about the University of Colorado, Boulder? You have still failed to support your claim in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's your quotes, not my job to prove a negative.
Click to expand...



You fail logic again. I have supported my claim, you cannot.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> On the Sixty-Sixth Anniversary of the Bombing of Hiroshima - Gar Alperovitz


More BS revisionism void of fact.

I'll stick to the eye witness accounts of those there preparing for the invasion of the homeland and those on Okinawa.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> "General/President Dwight Eisenhower discusses this in his 1963 memoir, _The White House Years: Mandate for Change_, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313). When he was informed in mid-July 1945 by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson of the decision to use the atomic bomb, he was deeply troubled."
> 
> *“I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to [Stimson] my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’ ” *(source)
> 
> *“The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing… I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.” *(source)
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?
> 
> 
> "Another great example comes from General Douglas MacArthur, who sent a 40-page memorandum to President Roosevelt that clearly outlines five different surrender overtures from high ranking Japanese officials. This memo was also revealed on the front page of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the_Washington Times_ on August 19th, 1945."
> 
> "Again, the memo unequivocally states that the Japanese were offering to surrender. What is even more eye-opening is the fact that the surrender terms were practically identical to what was ultimately accepted by the Americans after the bomb had dropped. The memo (source) stated these terms:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea, and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees
> Surrender of designated war criminals
> Japan also made multiple attempts to end the war through Sweden and Portugal, who were neutral at the time. They also approached Soviet Russia’s leaders *“with a view of terminating the war if possible by September.” *(source)
> 
> Here is a quote from Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence, Ellis Zacharias:
> 
> *Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia. *
> 
> *Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb. *
> 
> *I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds. *(source)"
> 
> 
> The Real Reason America Dropped The Atomic Bomb. It Was Not To End The War
> 
> 
> 
> "Similarly, Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:
> 
> *It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan … The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons … My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children. *(source)
> 
> There have also been some disturbing remarks like this one:
> 
> On September 9, 1945, Admiral William F. Halsey, commander of the Third Fleet, was publicly quoted as stating that the atomic bomb was used because the scientists had a *“toy and they wanted to try it out…”* He further stated that *“the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment” *and that it was* “a mistake to ever drop it.” *(source)
> 
> He said this despite the fact that most prominent scientists were completely against it. The scientists involved with the Manhattan project even wrote to the Secretary of Defense to try to encourage him not to drop the bomb."
> 
> 
> 
> Your source, Institute for Historical Review, is a hate group that denies the holocaust and has links to neo Nazis. So yes, like I said, your supposed quotes have no room in the historical timeline.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about the University of Colorado, Boulder? You have still failed to support your claim in any way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's your quotes, not my job to prove a negative.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You fail logic again. I have supported my claim, you cannot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you supported it with a holocaust denying Nazi group as your source.


----------



## Unkotare

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-re...-was-not-to-end-the-war-or-save-lives/5308192


----------



## Unkotare

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the Sixty-Sixth Anniversary of the Bombing of Hiroshima - Gar Alperovitz
> 
> 
> 
> More BS revisionism void of fact.
> 
> I'll stick to the eye witness accounts of those there preparing for the invasion of the homeland and those on Okinawa.
Click to expand...




I have provided page after page of direct quotes from military and political leaders of the day. I have provided mountains of evidence. You have provided jack shit. Support your position or put your head back up your ass and STFU.


----------



## Unkotare

John Pilger: The lessons that should be learnt from Hiroshima


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-re...-was-not-to-end-the-war-or-save-lives/5308192


Quoting the same book over and over proves nothing.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Unkotare said:


> John Pilger: The lessons that should be learnt from Hiroshima


Now an opinion article from the hard left Guardian.  

Have a good day.  You're a time suck.


----------



## westwall

Steven_R said:


> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.








The WWI Purple Hearts ran out during the Vietnam War.  Now our soldiers get the new made, really crappy medals.  The WWII medals were very high quality.


----------



## Unkotare




----------



## Unkotare




----------



## Unkotare




----------



## Unkotare

I note the penguin never even_ tried_ to prove his claim.


----------



## Steven_R

westwall said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The WWI Purple Hearts ran out during the Vietnam War.  Now our soldiers get the new made, really crappy medals.  The WWII medals were very high quality.
Click to expand...


Not according to Stars and Stripes.
Are Purple Hearts from 1945 still being awarded?


----------



## Vastator

Weatherman2020 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another year since a pivotal moment in human history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan calls on leaders to follow Obama and visit Hiroshima
> 
> 
> 
> Let's celebrate Hiroshima Day by reading from the book Unbroken:
> 
> Louie had been on Kwajalein for about a week when his cell door was thrown open and two guards pulled him out. He flushed with fear, thinking that he was being taken to the sword. As he was hustled toward what seemed to be an officers’ quarters, he passed two girls with Asian features, walking with heads down, eyes averted, as they retreated from the building. … The ranking officer stared coolly at his captive. How do American soldiers satisfy their sexual appetites? he asked. Louie replied that they don’t— they rely on willpower. The officer was amused. The Japanese military, he said, provides women for its soldiers, an allusion to the thousands of Chinese, Korean, Indonesian, and Filipino women whom the Japanese military had kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery. Louie thought of the girls outside. …
> 
> And then there was Gaga. Something about this affectionate little duck, perhaps the fact that he was beloved to the captives, provoked the guards. They tortured him mercilessly, kicking him and hurling him around. Then one day, in full view of the captives, Shithead opened his pants and violated the bird. Gaga died. Of all the things he witnessed in war, Louie would say, this was the worst. …
> 
> Raymond “Hap” Halloran was a navigator who parachuted into Tokyo after his B-29 was shot down. Once on the ground, Halloran was beaten by a mob of civilians, then captured by Japanese authorities, who tortured him, locked him in a pig cage, and held him in a burning horse stall during the firebombings. They stripped him naked and put him on display at Tokyo’s Ueno Zoo, tied upright in an empty tiger cage so civilians could gawk at his filthy, sore-encrusted body. He was starved so severely that he lost one hundred pounds. …
> 
> The Japanese military surrounded the city of Nanking, stranding more than half a million civilians and 90,000 Chinese soldiers. The soldiers surrendered and, assured of their safety, submitted to being bound. Japanese officers then issued a written order: ALL PRISONERS OF WAR ARE TO BE EXECUTED. What followed was a six-week frenzy of killing that defies articulation. Masses of POWs were beheaded, machine-gunned, bayoneted, and burned alive. The Japanese turned on civilians, engaging in killing contests, raping tens of thousands of people, mutilating and crucifying them, and provoking dogs to maul them. Japanese soldiers took pictures of themselves posing alongside hacked-up bodies, severed heads, and women strapped down for rape. The Japanese press ran tallies of the killing contests as if they were baseball scores, praising the heroism of the contestants. Historians estimate that the Japanese military murdered between 200,000 and 430,000 Chinese, including the 90,000 POWs, in what became known as the Rape of Nanking. …
> 
> Away from their officers, the guards told a different story, telling the POWs that the army had issued orders to kill them all in August. This might have been dismissed as a lie, but that July, a civilian worker known for his sympathy for POWs warned a prisoner that an execution date had been set. The date he gave was the same as one that had reportedly been mentioned to prisoners in at least two other camps. All of the Naoetsu POWs, the civilian said, would be killed on August 22. …
> 
> The POWs were so disturbed by the obvious famine among the civilians that they stopped stealing at the work sites. It was clear to them that Japan had long ago lost this war. But Japan was a long way from giving in. If a massively destructive air war would not win surrender, invasion seemed the only possibility. POWs all over the country were noticing worrisome signs. They saw women holding sharpened sticks, practicing lunges at stacks of rice straw, and small children being lined up in front of schools, handed wooden mock guns, and drilled. Japan, whose people deemed surrender shameful, appeared to be preparing to fight to the last man, woman, or child. …
> 
> In its rampage over the east, Japan had brought atrocity and death on a scale that staggers the imagination. In the midst of it were the prisoners of war. Japan held some 132,000 POWs from America, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Holland, and Australia. Of those, nearly 36,000 died, more than one in every four. Americans fared particularly badly; of the 34,648 Americans held by Japan, 12,935— more than 37 percent— died. By comparison, only 1 percent of Americans held by the Nazis and Italians died. Japan murdered thousands of POWs on death marches, and worked thousands of others to death in slavery, including some 16,000 POWs who died alongside as many as 100,000 Asian laborers forced to build the Burma-Siam Railway. Thousands of other POWs were beaten, burned, stabbed, or clubbed to death, shot, beheaded, killed during medical experiments, or eaten alive in ritual acts of cannibalism. And as a result of being fed grossly inadequate and befouled food and water, thousands more died of starvation and easily preventable diseases. Of the 2,500 POWs at Borneo’s Sandakan camp, only 6, all escapees, made it to September 1945 alive. Left out of the numbing statistics are untold numbers of men who were captured and killed on the spot or dragged to places like Kwajalein, to be murdered without the world ever learning their fate. …
> 
> In accordance with the kill-all order, the Japanese massacred all 5,000 Korean captives on Tinian, all of the POWs on Ballale, Wake, and Tarawa, and all but 11 POWs at Palawan. They were evidently about to murder all the other POWs and civilian internees in their custody when the atomic bomb brought their empire crashing down. On the morning of September 2, 1945, Japan signed its formal surrender. The Second World War was over.
Click to expand...

The Japanese didn't mess around with "rules of war". If we face a real enemy today who fights as hard as they did; our millennial, pussy generation would probably surrender.


----------



## MaryL

Every August rolls around, Unko trots this old dead horse. And the fact it took  2 A bombs, not one, to impress upon the fascist Japanese militarists  the futility of their cause, speaks for itself. Hubris is a *BITCH,* isn't it?


----------



## westwall

Steven_R said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The WWI Purple Hearts ran out during the Vietnam War.  Now our soldiers get the new made, really crappy medals.  The WWII medals were very high quality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not according to Stars and Stripes.
> Are Purple Hearts from 1945 still being awarded?
Click to expand...





"One historian says yes".  The DLA says "maybe".  They also say they are refurbished.  It sounds like a nice bit of hype to sell his book on the planned invasion of Japan.  Other historians think otherwise.


The Purple Heart


----------



## Steven_R

Half A Million Purple Hearts | American History Lives at American Heritage


----------



## westwall

Steven_R said:


> Half A Million Purple Hearts | American History Lives at American Heritage








I don't understand how you think a 16 year old article is pertinent.


----------



## Unkotare

Vastator said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another year since a pivotal moment in human history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan calls on leaders to follow Obama and visit Hiroshima
> 
> 
> 
> Let's celebrate Hiroshima Day by reading from the book Unbroken:
> 
> Louie had been on Kwajalein for about a week when his cell door was thrown open and two guards pulled him out. He flushed with fear, thinking that he was being taken to the sword. As he was hustled toward what seemed to be an officers’ quarters, he passed two girls with Asian features, walking with heads down, eyes averted, as they retreated from the building. … The ranking officer stared coolly at his captive. How do American soldiers satisfy their sexual appetites? he asked. Louie replied that they don’t— they rely on willpower. The officer was amused. The Japanese military, he said, provides women for its soldiers, an allusion to the thousands of Chinese, Korean, Indonesian, and Filipino women whom the Japanese military had kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery. Louie thought of the girls outside. …
> 
> And then there was Gaga. Something about this affectionate little duck, perhaps the fact that he was beloved to the captives, provoked the guards. They tortured him mercilessly, kicking him and hurling him around. Then one day, in full view of the captives, Shithead opened his pants and violated the bird. Gaga died. Of all the things he witnessed in war, Louie would say, this was the worst. …
> 
> Raymond “Hap” Halloran was a navigator who parachuted into Tokyo after his B-29 was shot down. Once on the ground, Halloran was beaten by a mob of civilians, then captured by Japanese authorities, who tortured him, locked him in a pig cage, and held him in a burning horse stall during the firebombings. They stripped him naked and put him on display at Tokyo’s Ueno Zoo, tied upright in an empty tiger cage so civilians could gawk at his filthy, sore-encrusted body. He was starved so severely that he lost one hundred pounds. …
> 
> The Japanese military surrounded the city of Nanking, stranding more than half a million civilians and 90,000 Chinese soldiers. The soldiers surrendered and, assured of their safety, submitted to being bound. Japanese officers then issued a written order: ALL PRISONERS OF WAR ARE TO BE EXECUTED. What followed was a six-week frenzy of killing that defies articulation. Masses of POWs were beheaded, machine-gunned, bayoneted, and burned alive. The Japanese turned on civilians, engaging in killing contests, raping tens of thousands of people, mutilating and crucifying them, and provoking dogs to maul them. Japanese soldiers took pictures of themselves posing alongside hacked-up bodies, severed heads, and women strapped down for rape. The Japanese press ran tallies of the killing contests as if they were baseball scores, praising the heroism of the contestants. Historians estimate that the Japanese military murdered between 200,000 and 430,000 Chinese, including the 90,000 POWs, in what became known as the Rape of Nanking. …
> 
> Away from their officers, the guards told a different story, telling the POWs that the army had issued orders to kill them all in August. This might have been dismissed as a lie, but that July, a civilian worker known for his sympathy for POWs warned a prisoner that an execution date had been set. The date he gave was the same as one that had reportedly been mentioned to prisoners in at least two other camps. All of the Naoetsu POWs, the civilian said, would be killed on August 22. …
> 
> The POWs were so disturbed by the obvious famine among the civilians that they stopped stealing at the work sites. It was clear to them that Japan had long ago lost this war. But Japan was a long way from giving in. If a massively destructive air war would not win surrender, invasion seemed the only possibility. POWs all over the country were noticing worrisome signs. They saw women holding sharpened sticks, practicing lunges at stacks of rice straw, and small children being lined up in front of schools, handed wooden mock guns, and drilled. Japan, whose people deemed surrender shameful, appeared to be preparing to fight to the last man, woman, or child. …
> 
> In its rampage over the east, Japan had brought atrocity and death on a scale that staggers the imagination. In the midst of it were the prisoners of war. Japan held some 132,000 POWs from America, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Holland, and Australia. Of those, nearly 36,000 died, more than one in every four. Americans fared particularly badly; of the 34,648 Americans held by Japan, 12,935— more than 37 percent— died. By comparison, only 1 percent of Americans held by the Nazis and Italians died. Japan murdered thousands of POWs on death marches, and worked thousands of others to death in slavery, including some 16,000 POWs who died alongside as many as 100,000 Asian laborers forced to build the Burma-Siam Railway. Thousands of other POWs were beaten, burned, stabbed, or clubbed to death, shot, beheaded, killed during medical experiments, or eaten alive in ritual acts of cannibalism. And as a result of being fed grossly inadequate and befouled food and water, thousands more died of starvation and easily preventable diseases. Of the 2,500 POWs at Borneo’s Sandakan camp, only 6, all escapees, made it to September 1945 alive. Left out of the numbing statistics are untold numbers of men who were captured and killed on the spot or dragged to places like Kwajalein, to be murdered without the world ever learning their fate. …
> 
> In accordance with the kill-all order, the Japanese massacred all 5,000 Korean captives on Tinian, all of the POWs on Ballale, Wake, and Tarawa, and all but 11 POWs at Palawan. They were evidently about to murder all the other POWs and civilian internees in their custody when the atomic bomb brought their empire crashing down. On the morning of September 2, 1945, Japan signed its formal surrender. The Second World War was over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Japanese didn't mess around with "rules of war". If we face a real enemy today who fights as hard as they did; our millennial, pussy generation would probably surrender.
Click to expand...




Not a chance.


----------



## MaryL

Unko is right, America never needed to use  the Atomic bomb. Nope, and Japan never needed to attack America, Britain, Holland and French interests and destabilize the entire area, either, Or invade China and slaughter millions of innocent Chinese. Manchuria and  slaughter civilians to expand their imaginary "co prosperity sphere". None of this ever ever needed to happen. They where just poor misunderstood fascists that killed countless non combatants for a better facist Japan and the emperor. Bonzi!


----------



## Vastator

War is hell...


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Every August rolls around, Unko trots this old dead horse. ....




"Dead horse"? One of the pivotal events in human history? I'm sure if it were a thread about what a poor little victim you are of the Mexican people you hate so much you would find it quite compelling.


----------



## Vastator

The japs knew how subjugate thier enemies good and proper. We coulda learned a thing or ten from them. If we had. We likely could have avoided some of the conflicts we've dealt with since.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... Bonzi!




What the hell is that?


----------



## MaryL

Bonsai? Spelling is the center of your moral universe? The Japanese Imperial government invaded China and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people before Japan aligned itself with Nazi Germany. You know what the hell they did, and it took 2 atomic bombs to stop them...Um, boo hoo.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Bonsai? ....



No, still wrong.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ...Spelling is the center of your moral universe?.....




Ignorance is the center of yours?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Spelling is the center of your moral universe?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorance is the center of yours?
Click to expand...

You have the market sewn up for that one, along with condescension. Hands down. The Japanese started American involvement in WWII, and your petty over concern on this issue makes me wonder if you are capable of informed and unbiased opinion on...anything. Misogynist are like that.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> .... your petty over concern on this issue .....





What's "petty" about the deaths of over 200,000 civilians? What is "petty" about the only actual wartime use of atomic weapons in human history? Maybe your attempt at defending your inability to spell words you tried to use is what's really "petty" here.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... your petty over concern on this issue .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's "petty" about the deaths of over 200,000 civilians? What is "petty" about the only actual wartime use of atomic weapons in human history? Maybe your attempt at defending your inability to spell words you tried to use is what's really "petty" here.
Click to expand...

Never said that, lets ask the japanese imperial government that slaughtered MILLIONS  of innocent Chinese, Koreans and others in pursuit of their war mongering. The deaths of all japanese civilians lay at the feet of their own emperor and their ambitions.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... your petty over concern on this issue .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's "petty" about the deaths of over 200,000 civilians? What is "petty" about the only actual wartime use of atomic weapons in human history? Maybe your attempt at defending your inability to spell words you tried to use is what's really "petty" here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never said that,......
Click to expand...



Did you, or did  you not, use the word "petty"?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> [... lets ask the japanese imperial government that slaughtered MILLIONS  of innocent Chinese, Koreans and others in pursuit of their war mongering. The deaths of all japanese civilians lay at the feet of their own emperor and their ambitions.





So, the dropping of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people? Got some evidence that this was the reasoning behind Truman's decision?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> [... lets ask the japanese imperial government that slaughtered MILLIONS  of innocent Chinese, Koreans and others in pursuit of their war mongering. The deaths of all japanese civilians lay at the feet of their own emperor and their ambitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dropping of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people? Got some evidence that this was the reasoning behind Truman's decision?
Click to expand...

Um, you really don't understand any of this, do you?  The japanese military needlessly and without remorse killed at least 3 to 10 million innocent civilians. I will quote from R.J. Rummel's site on the subject: "From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture (such as the view that those enemy soldiers who surrender while still able to resist were criminals."
The people that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were a drop in the bucket, and the fact it took TWO A bombs to get the attention  of the japanese government, says more about the power of denial and blind authoritarianism  of japanese culture than the use of brutal force by the American military. We are beating a dead horse here.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> [... lets ask the japanese imperial government that slaughtered MILLIONS  of innocent Chinese, Koreans and others in pursuit of their war mongering. The deaths of all japanese civilians lay at the feet of their own emperor and their ambitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dropping of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people? Got some evidence that this was the reasoning behind Truman's decision?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um, you really don't understand any of this, do you? ....
Click to expand...



I understand just fine. Now answer the question: So, the dropping of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people? Got some evidence that this was the reasoning behind Truman's decision?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> [... lets ask the japanese imperial government that slaughtered MILLIONS  of innocent Chinese, Koreans and others in pursuit of their war mongering. The deaths of all japanese civilians lay at the feet of their own emperor and their ambitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dropping of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people? Got some evidence that this was the reasoning behind Truman's decision?
Click to expand...

Um, you really don't understand any of this, do you?  The japanese military needlessly and without remorse killed at least 3 to 10 million innocent civilians. I will quote from R.J. Rummel's site on the subject: "From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture (such as the view that those enemy soldiers who surrender while still able to resist were criminals."
The people that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were a drop in the bucket, and the fact it took TWO A bombs to get the attention japanese government, says more about the power of denial and blind authoritarianism  of japanese culture than the use of brutal force by the American military. We are beating a dead horse here.


Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> [... lets ask the japanese imperial government that slaughtered MILLIONS  of innocent Chinese, Koreans and others in pursuit of their war mongering. The deaths of all japanese civilians lay at the feet of their own emperor and their ambitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the dropping of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people? Got some evidence that this was the reasoning behind Truman's decision?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um, you really don't understand any of this, do you? ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I understand just fine. Now answer the question: So, the dropping of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people? Got some evidence that this was the reasoning behind Truman's decision?
Click to expand...

You are fixated on that revenge thing. You will have to ask Truman that. I can only presume that was a secondary if not irrelevant issue. The A bomb was developed by a mixed group, a lot of them were Europeans, with the intention of nuking Berlin and stopping fascism in Europe. And the fascist Japanese government could just as well capitulated when Germans did. No, they chose to hang on. Um, would you care to speculate as to why? That put the nuclear target on Japan. They could have quite at any time after Berlin folded. The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. Peal harbor and 4 years  latter, BANG. Karma kicks your ass every time.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> .....
> You are fixated on that revenge thing......




No, YOU are. YOU are the one who keeps presenting the issue in that context. So, when you get a moment of clarity, answer the question.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......



I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> You are fixated on that revenge thing......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, YOU are. YOU are the one who keeps presenting the issue in that context. So, when you get a moment of clarity, answer the question.
Click to expand...

No, the Japanese weren't poor little victims here, and you always seem to mislead yourself as to whom is the perpetrator on just about any issue. I will leave you to think that one through, because that's all I have to say this year on this issue  this time. Behave yourself, kid.


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## Unkotare

Why are you afraid to answer a simple question? 


Was the dropping of the atomic bombs an act of revenge on behalf of Chinese and Korean people?


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## whitehall

Surely the Japanese people who are old enough to remember Hiroshima are smart enough not to buy into another propaganda issue of Obama's fake concern for nuclear weapons after he authorized and paid for the terrorist based country of Iran to construct nuclear reactors.


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## Ringel05

Looks like we found Unk's Cause Celebre, his windmills to tilt at........


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## Unkotare

Ringel05 said:


> Looks like we found Unk's Cause Celebre, his windmills to tilt at........




?????????????????????????????


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## Ringel05

Unkotare said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like we found Unk's Cause Celebre, his windmills to tilt at........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?????????????????????????????
Click to expand...

????????????????????????????? Back atcha.......


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## regent

The bombs were dropped to end the war. They did the job. Imagine the wrath of the American people if after the invasions the people learned we had the means to end the war and didn't use them. If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.


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## Unkotare

regent said:


> ... If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.





Not a chance.


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## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a chance.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that the American people would sit quietly after three and a half years of war, and facing an enemy that plays a surrender game, but won't surrender. Add to that facing, the biggest massacre of Americans of  the war, all on the supposition that some people might worry seventy years later that some people would object to the answer for the surrender of the enemy?


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## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are saying that the American people would sit quietly after three and a half years of war, and facing an enemy that plays a surrender game, but won't surrender. Add to that facing, the biggest massacre of Americans of  the war, all on the supposition that some people might worry seventy years later that some people would object to the answer for the surrender of the enemy?
Click to expand...



Knowing we would be deliberately targeting and incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians at a shot in a country that was already militarily defeated and looking for terms of surrender? No, Americans would not put up with that any more than they would put up with most of that scumbag fdr's outrages against the Constitution, the American people, and our very form of government. No.


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## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are saying that the American people would sit quietly after three and a half years of war, and facing an enemy that plays a surrender game, but won't surrender. Add to that facing, the biggest massacre of Americans of  the war, all on the supposition that some people might worry seventy years later that some people would object to the answer for the surrender of the enemy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing we would be deliberately targeting and incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians at a shot in a country that was already militarily defeated and looking for terms of surrender? No, Americans would not put up with that any more than they would put up with most of that scumbag fdr's outrages against the Constitution, the American people, and our very form of government. No.
Click to expand...

Japan had our terms.


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## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are saying that the American people would sit quietly after three and a half years of war, and facing an enemy that plays a surrender game, but won't surrender. Add to that facing, the biggest massacre of Americans of  the war, all on the supposition that some people might worry seventy years later that some people would object to the answer for the surrender of the enemy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing we would be deliberately targeting and incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians at a shot in a country that was already militarily defeated and looking for terms of surrender? No, Americans would not put up with that any more than they would put up with most of that scumbag fdr's outrages against the Constitution, the American people, and our very form of government. No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Japan had our terms.
Click to expand...



You would sacrifice every civilian on earth (including, if not specifically, Americans) to please the cock of the corpse of your deity fdr. You've let partisanship go so far as to make you less than human at this point.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you are saying that the American people would sit quietly after three and a half years of war, and facing an enemy that plays a surrender game, but won't surrender. Add to that facing, the biggest massacre of Americans of  the war, all on the supposition that some people might worry seventy years later that some people would object to the answer for the surrender of the enemy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing we would be deliberately targeting and incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians at a shot in a country that was already militarily defeated and looking for terms of surrender? No, Americans would not put up with that any more than they would put up with most of that scumbag fdr's outrages against the Constitution, the American people, and our very form of government. No.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Japan had our terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You would sacrifice every civilian on earth (including, if not specifically, Americans) to please the cock of the corpse of your deity fdr. You've let partisanship go so far as to make you less than human at this point.
Click to expand...

The Japanese made war on us, and war involves casualties, and Japan knowing it would not win, made American casualties their bargaining point.


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## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
Click to expand...

The Japanese ATTACKED the US because we stood in their way, we embargoed critical war supplies, ironically enough, to stop the *Japanese slaughter of innocent civilians.* Hiroshima gave the Japanese a taste of what they where dealing. Don't give me that "poor little victim" Bullshit.Karma. Hubris. Payback. The japanese reaped what they sowed.With interest come due.


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## Divine Wind

Penelope said:


> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".


Dropping bombs to end a war which cost the US over 300 lives a day is worth it.  Any President who didn't do their best to stop the carnage would be worse than remiss, they'd be negligent and careless.


----------



## Divine Wind

MaryL said:


> The Japanese ATTACKED the US because we stood in their way, we embargoed critical war supplies, ironically enough, to stop the *Japanese slaughter of innocent civilians.* Hiroshima gave the Japanese a taste of what they where dealing. Don't give me that "poor little victim" Bullshit.Karma. Hubris. Payback. The japanese reaped what they sowed.With interest come due.


Agreed.


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## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
Click to expand...

DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.


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## williepete

regent said:


> The bombs were dropped to end the war. They did the job. *Imagine the wrath of the American people if after the invasions the people learned we had the means to end the war and didn't use them*. If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.



Bingo!

I highly recommend the excellent historical work of David McCullough and his Pulitzer Prize–winning biography of Harry S. Truman.

Revisionists hold the false belief that the A-Bomb was something special in 1945. In fact, it was just another weapon that had been in development for years and made up a huge percentage of the cost of the war SO FAR. At the time, there was no promise it would work or the Japanese would quit because of it.

The bomb was to be used as soon as it was ready. It was just another weapon. There was no reason not to use it. Every day cost the lives of hundreds if not thousands of Americans-sons of tax payers and voters who were screaming to get their sons home alive as soon as possible.

The Japanese weren't defeated. That's revisionist bullshit.

They had to be put down. The Japan of today bears no resemblance to the murderous psychopaths that slaughtered their way through Asia in the 30's. Two A-Bombs has a way of changing a culture.

I lived in Japan for two years in the mid 80's. I was stunned to see first hand Japanese kids were taught in school that America attacked them. They were taught they were the victims of WW2. Saw it first hand.

Here's another book:  "The Rising Sun" by John Toland. Toland's work is unique in Western histories of WW2 in that he has as many post war interviews of Japanese Generals and Admirals as he does with their Western counterparts. What is really sick about the Japanese that made the Americans crazy after the war is that when they interrogated the Japanese officers and asked them when they KNEW the war lost, they all said, "After Guadalcanal". Yet they decided to fight for 30 more months. You can imagine how dumbfounded the American interrogators were upon learning this, looking back at the recent loss of blood and treasure. 30 frigging months at hundreds or thousands a day and the Japanese were OK with that.

It was a sick society that needed to be defeated. It was and has been reborn into a peaceful, productive society and a valuable ally.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
Click to expand...



So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?


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## williepete

Get off the revenge kick. It's not working. We wanted our boys home. We wanted to end the war YOU STARTED.

*No apology: Japan deserved Enola Gay's visit *
By Neil Steinberg

_There's a museum in Tokyo dedicated to Japan's ample history of warfare. But if you visit the plainly named Military Museum, you'll find no reference to the grotesque medical experiments the Japanese army conducted in World War II or the sex slaves it kidnapped.

The Rape of Nanking, when rampaging Japanese troops raped and murdered hundreds of thousands of Chinese, is airbrushed into the "Nanking Incident,'' and the facts are said to be uncertain._

_Civilian deaths aren't mentioned at all until the Americans begin firebombing Tokyo in 1944.

This is par for the course. In Japanese textbooks, the relentless quest for military domination that so marked that nation's conduct in the 20th century gently morphs into a brave struggle for independence against a hostile world._

_This essay originally appeared in the_ _Chicago Sun-Times_.

No apology: Japan deserved Enola Gay's visit


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
Click to expand...

The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?


----------



## whitehall

regent said:


> The bombs were dropped to end the war. They did the job. Imagine the wrath of the American people if after the invasions the people learned we had the means to end the war and didn't use them. If the situation were the same today, would we use them? In a minute.


"The means to end the war". God help us if another democrat administration that suspends the 1st Amendment and convinces Americans that the best "means" to end the war" is to incinerate the (sub human?) civilian population of two cities while their leaders were seeking surrender terms. Imagine what the mainstream media can convince idiot low information idiots to do next.


----------



## williepete

whitehall said:


> Americans that the best "means" to end the war" is to incinerate the (*sub human*?) civilian population of two cities while their leaders were seeking surrender terms.



Why the sub human insert? A Truman quote?

The leaders were seeking a cease fire, not a surrender. Their proposals with the Soviets were a fools errand. Stalin passed few if any of their proposals to Truman. Stalin looked to gain ground in lost Japanese territory.

Again, why the sub human insert? We wanted our boys home. We wanted to stop the hundreds to thousands of killed/maimed that was going on every day ON BOTH SIDES.


----------



## MaryL

The Japanese were racist as well as fascist, they invaded Manchuria because they were the "superior' race . Just like Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia, and the similarities don't end there, either. Eisnatzastgroupen, Unit 731.


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## Vandalshandle

My step father was at Okinawa, and knew he would soon be involved in the invasion of the home islands. He did not expect to live through it. Suddenly, the Japanese no longer needed a way to "save face" before surrendering, and he was on his way home.

In addition to that, the nightly incendiary bombing  by LeMay killed many more civilians than the atomic bombs.

I have been known to lose up to 5 minutes of sleep over the whole issue.


----------



## Likkmee

Penelope said:


> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".


UM. HoloHOAX.
You're welcome


----------



## MaryL

My farther was shot by a Japanese soldier, at the battle of Attu. He used to tell me " you better watch them japs, they will stab you in the back".Where there peaceful Japanese that never intended to start WWII anyway?  Naping?


----------



## williepete

MaryL said:


> Where there peaceful Japanese that never intended to start WWII anyway?



Yes. Quite a few but none in power. One very influential voice who knew America, who had lived in America was ignored.

*A Reluctant Enemy*

"_By a peculiar twist of fate, the Japanese admiral who masterminded the attack had persistently warned his government not to fight the United States. Had his countrymen listened, the history of the 20th century might have turned out much differently."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/07/opinion/a-reluctant-enemy.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=opinion_


----------



## williepete

MaryL said:


> Where there peaceful Japanese that never intended to start WWII anyway?  Naping?



Prince Fumimaro Konoye, the Prime Minister before Tojo was trying to demilitarize the military's influence in government affairs. He was a day late and a dollar short. By that time, the military held tremendous sway over the government. Tojo's purges of the military "insured support" in much the same way as the Brown Shirts "insured support" in Germany.

Prince Fumimaro Konoye was also trying to deescalate tensions with the United States over the ongoing war in China. It's one of those great "what ifs" of history. Had Prince Fumimaro Konoye had more backing and Tojo less, the entire Pacific war could have been averted. But that was not to be.

...which brings us to Hirohito.


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## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?
Click to expand...







I believe I asked you a question. Answer it.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> The Japanese were racist as well as fascist, they invaded Manchuria because they were the "superior' race . Just like Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia, and the similarities don't end there, either. Eisnatzastgroupen, Unit 731.






So, the bombs were dropped in protest against racism? You really think fdr - of all people - gave a moment's thought about the evils of racism?


----------



## Unkotare

Likkmee said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".
> 
> 
> 
> UM. HoloHOAX.
> You're welcome
Click to expand...





You're lost. Go back to stormfront.


----------



## Penelope

MaryL said:


> My farther was shot by a Japanese soldier, at the battle of Attu. He used to tell me " you better watch them japs, they will stab you in the back".Where there peaceful Japanese that never intended to start WWII anyway?  Naping?



It was a war. The side your fighting is always the evil ones.


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## Divine Wind

Penelope said:


> It was a war. The side your fighting is always the evil ones.


While that is often the claim, such as ISIS claiming the US is "the Great Satan", honest people know the difference between truth and bullshit.

The US was right to protest the "rape of Nanking" and right to worry about Japan's expansion into other nations just as the West was right to protest and fight the expansion of Saddam into Kuwait in 1990.   When the US protested Japan's actions and refused to trade with them, Japan attacked us.  Once attacked, anyone, be they a nation or an individual, has the right of self-defense.  

Japan started the war and we finished it.  People can claim both sides were evil or equate Japan's actions with those of the US, but I'll never agree on that part.  Japan was truly a fascist, brutal power that needed to be stopped.  They attacked and invaded several countries.  They would have invaded Australia if we hadn't beaten them at the Battle of the Coral Sea and, later, the Battle of Midway.


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## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
Click to expand...





Again, no answer.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is really the most important thing we should remember about WWII, the dropping of 2 atomic bombs, not to mention over 65 million people died.
> 
> But no , what is WWII known about the most , the "jewish holocaust".
> 
> 
> 
> Dropping bombs to end a war which cost the US over 300 lives a day is worth it.  Any President who didn't do their best to stop the carnage would be worse than remiss, they'd be negligent and careless.
Click to expand...


And if a real leader could have brought about an end to the war without incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians with the most terrible weapon ever devised? Would you be for or against that?


----------



## Unkotare

williepete said:


> ....
> 
> Revisionists hold the false belief that the A-Bomb was something special in 1945. In fact, it was just another weapon that had been in development for years and made up a huge percentage of the cost of the war SO FAR. At the time, there was no promise it would work or the Japanese would quit because of it.......




It was "special" then, and it is "special" now. We knew it would 'work' (obviously) and that it would be more terrible than any weapon ever developed prior.


----------



## Unkotare

williepete said:


> .....
> 
> The Japanese weren't defeated. That's revisionist bullshit......





Military leaders _at the time_ disagree with you.


----------



## Unkotare

williepete said:


> .....
> 
> They had to be put down. The Japan of today bears no resemblance to the murderous psychopaths that slaughtered their way through Asia in the 30's. Two A-Bombs has a way of changing a culture.......




So, the bombs were dropped as an act of revenge and specifically to 'change the culture'? Do you have any evidence or documentation to support that claim?


----------



## Unkotare

williepete said:


> Get off the revenge kick. It's not working. .....




It's not _my_ "kick." You and Mexico Mary are the ones who keep bringing it up.


----------



## Unkotare

williepete said:


> ....... We wanted to end the war YOU STARTED.
> .......





Oh, now *I* started WWII? That's a new one...


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?
Click to expand...



It's clear you are afraid (or mentally incapable) of answering questions, but I'll try again anyway. Do you have any proof or documentation that the bombs were dropped as an act of revenge on behalf of China?


----------



## Unkotare

williepete said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans that the best "means" to end the war" is to incinerate the (*sub human*?) civilian population of two cities while their leaders were seeking surrender terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the sub human insert? A Truman quote?.....
Click to expand...



We know that's how fdr felt.


----------



## Unkotare

williepete said:


> ...
> 
> The leaders were seeking a cease fire, not a surrender. ......




False.


Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> williepete said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> The Japanese weren't defeated. That's revisionist bullshit......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Military leaders _at the time_ disagree with you.
Click to expand...

For some military leaders it was their only war, and some seemed unable to read the message Japan was sending them with Okinawa and Iwo Jima.


----------



## Vandalshandle

I have always suspected that if the US had not fought the imperialist war with Spain, and ended up with the Philippines, the Japanese would have bombed Manila instead of Pearl Harbor.I have absolutely no idea what that would have lead too, but I suspect that it would have been a problem for the US, since we really needed a reason to go to war against Hitler, and Japan gave it to us. Frankly, the whole Japanese war plan was doomed from the start, and only their racist view of Japanese superiority could have lead them to such a foolish action; not that we were not equally racist. One does not have to be a military genius to know that it is a much better idea to sink the enemy's fleet in the ocean, than to sink it in water so shallow that almost all the ships could be salvaged.


----------



## Penelope

Divine.Wind said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a war. The side your fighting is always the evil ones.
> 
> 
> 
> While that is often the claim, such as ISIS claiming the US is "the Great Satan", honest people know the difference between truth and bullshit.
> 
> The US was right to protest the "rape of Nanking" and right to worry about Japan's expansion into other nations just as the West was right to protest and fight the expansion of Saddam into Kuwait in 1990.   When the US protested Japan's actions and refused to trade with them, Japan attacked us.  Once attacked, anyone, be they a nation or an individual, has the right of self-defense.
> 
> Japan started the war and we finished it.  People can claim both sides were evil or equate Japan's actions with those of the US, but I'll never agree on that part.  Japan was truly a fascist, brutal power that needed to be stopped.  They attacked and invaded several countries.  They would have invaded Australia if we hadn't beaten them at the Battle of the Coral Sea and, later, the Battle of Midway.
Click to expand...


Big money in war, they found that out after the 1st world war.  Actually when you sanction a country you start the war.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... The Japanese weren't the poor little victims  you make them out to be. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's clear you are afraid (or mentally incapable) of answering questions, but I'll try again anyway. Do you have any proof or documentation that the bombs were dropped as an act of revenge on behalf of China?
Click to expand...

It's  clear you don't understand cause and effect. Japan precipitated American involvement in WWII.  And despite your inane rhetoric, nobody LIKES what happened as a result. Does that shock you?  We didn't wan't it.  We didn't want japan to start a war to support oriental fascism. Address THAT.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have done no such thing. Military on both sides died in shocking numbers. The US military prevailed. Here's another question for you: Were the 200,000+ civilians incinerated by atomic bombs legitimate military targets? Is that what America's about?
> 
> 
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's clear you are afraid (or mentally incapable) of answering questions, but I'll try again anyway. Do you have any proof or documentation that the bombs were dropped as an act of revenge on behalf of China?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's  clear you don't understand cause and effect. Japan precipitated American involvement in WWII.  And despite your inane rhetoric, nobody LIKES what happened as a result. Does that shock you?  We didn't wan't it.  We didn't want japan to start a war to support oriental fascism. Address THAT.
Click to expand...





Do you seriously have a mental condition that prevents you from answering questions?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> DESPICABLE. It's vile. Germans bombed Coventry and it opened the door in Europe to mass indiscriminate bombings of civilians. Japan opened that door at Nanking slaughtering  as many as 300,000 people at one time. In 1937. The japanese didn't give a feather or fig about civilians until Hiroshima. Then you show up as their national conscious? Rather late, buko.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's clear you are afraid (or mentally incapable) of answering questions, but I'll try again anyway. Do you have any proof or documentation that the bombs were dropped as an act of revenge on behalf of China?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's  clear you don't understand cause and effect. Japan precipitated American involvement in WWII.  And despite your inane rhetoric, nobody LIKES what happened as a result. Does that shock you?  We didn't wan't it.  We didn't want japan to start a war to support oriental fascism. Address THAT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a mental condition that prevents you from answering questions?
Click to expand...

Yes I do, it's called Unkartism. You now, ignore the obvious and split hairs and pretend to have a point long after somebody contradicted it. Sorry, it's catching.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are saying that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done as an act of revenge on the behalf of China? Is that your position? Can you produce any documents supporting that claim?
> 
> 
> 
> The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's clear you are afraid (or mentally incapable) of answering questions, but I'll try again anyway. Do you have any proof or documentation that the bombs were dropped as an act of revenge on behalf of China?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's  clear you don't understand cause and effect. Japan precipitated American involvement in WWII.  And despite your inane rhetoric, nobody LIKES what happened as a result. Does that shock you?  We didn't wan't it.  We didn't want japan to start a war to support oriental fascism. Address THAT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a mental condition that prevents you from answering questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I do, it's called Unkartism. You now, ignore the obvious and split hairs and pretend to have a point long after somebody contradicted it. Sorry, it's catching.
Click to expand...








Let me know when you get some new medication that enables you to answer questions. Until then, shut the fuck up.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The deaths of millions of innocent civilians lay at the feet of  the japanese government. Are you denying that? That was the prelude to Hiroshima. Do you deny THAT?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's clear you are afraid (or mentally incapable) of answering questions, but I'll try again anyway. Do you have any proof or documentation that the bombs were dropped as an act of revenge on behalf of China?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's  clear you don't understand cause and effect. Japan precipitated American involvement in WWII.  And despite your inane rhetoric, nobody LIKES what happened as a result. Does that shock you?  We didn't wan't it.  We didn't want japan to start a war to support oriental fascism. Address THAT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a mental condition that prevents you from answering questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I do, it's called Unkartism. You now, ignore the obvious and split hairs and pretend to have a point long after somebody contradicted it. Sorry, it's catching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know when you get some new medication that enables you to answer questions. Until then, shut the fuck up.
Click to expand...

You are so adorable when you're pissed off. Japan  actually started WWII, you realize  somewhere in the back of your reptilian brainstem, that's sort of the the point. It isn't that hard, buckaroo. And they murdered countless million civilians. They deserved hiroshima, yes indeed. Was it revenge? Can't say, but it WAS necessary. That I say with confidence.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... Was it revenge? Can't say....




Why can't you say?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ..... it WAS necessary. That I say with confidence.




It has been proven here several times that it was not "necessary."


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> .... Japan  actually started WWII..... they murdered countless million civilians. .....





Points not in contention. You suck at building straw men.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... it WAS necessary. That I say with confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has been proven here several times that it was not "necessary."
Click to expand...

Really. And japan didn't need to bomb Pearl harbor, by that same standard. Funny, Unko, you don't understand mathematics, there are two parts to an equation.  But you emphasize one side and devalue the other side. You CAN do that emotionally, YOU can't do that logically. japan started the war at pearl harbor, the west ended it at Nagasaki. There isn't much else you can say.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... it WAS necessary. That I say with confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has been proven here several times that it was not "necessary."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really. ........
Click to expand...





Really.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... it WAS necessary. That I say with confidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has been proven here several times that it was not "necessary."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really. ........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really.
Click to expand...

When all else fails, condescension will?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ....... japan started the war at pearl harbor, the west ended it at Nagasaki. ......







So you ARE claiming that the atomic bombs WERE an act of revenge. Just come out and say so. Then you can try to find any documentation supporting your claim. You will fail, but at least you'll try for once.


----------



## MaryL

I just wonder why it took took *2* A- Bombs to  stop the monsters that thought facist  japan could do anything it wanted and run amuck in asia, commit innumerable   atrocities and war crimes murdering innocent civilians and then they are horrified when they get a taste of their own medicine? Are you KIDDING me?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... then they are horrified when they get a taste of their own medicine? Are you KIDDING me?




How about just one document or direct quote from a high ranking political or military leader showing that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China and SEA?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... then they are horrified when they get a taste of their own medicine? Are you KIDDING me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about just one document or direct quote from a high ranking political or military leader showing that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China and SEA?
Click to expand...

Do you have a document that shows WHY Japan attacked the US, to begin with? Don't be stuoopid. Where  are you going with this?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... then they are horrified when they get a taste of their own medicine? Are you KIDDING me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about just one document or direct quote from a high ranking political or military leader showing that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China and SEA?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a document that shows WHY Japan attacked the US, to begin with?....
Click to expand...



Red herring. That is not the topic at hand. Start a thread on that and you can learn about that - separate - topic.


----------



## MaryL

We all morn the innocent dead of all nations from  Guernica , Nan King, Coventry to Nagasaki. Perhaps we should leave it at that, yes?


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... then they are horrified when they get a taste of their own medicine? Are you KIDDING me?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about just one document or direct quote from a high ranking political or military leader showing that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China and SEA?
Click to expand...




Come on, Mexico Mary, get to it.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> We all morn the innocent dead of all nations from  Guernica , Nan King, Coventry to Nagasaki. Perhaps we should leave it at that, yes?




If you can't - ever - so much as _try_ to support your claims, why don't you just keep your yap shut?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> We all morn the innocent dead of all nations from  Guernica , Nan King, Coventry to Nagasaki. Perhaps we should leave it at that, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't - ever - so much as _try_ to support your claims, why don't you just keep your yap shut?
Click to expand...

Wow, are you kidding? You have the internet and YOU need to search all the facts as well as you conscience. japan really truly DID start American involvement in WWII. and you KNOW that Japan really truly murdered  millions of innocent civilians, you can confirm that your self. You don't need me to hold your hand and point out websites. YOU can do that YOURSELF. Why are you defending the indefensible? WHY? You don't support facist japan as some sort of poor poor misunderstood little victims, are you?  Now I want an answer to THAT, Mister. NOW. You have SOME nerve.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> YOU need to search all the facts .....





What facts, Mexico Mary?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU need to search all the facts .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts, Mexico Mary?
Click to expand...

Don't go there, misogynist Unko. Ugly little man you are. I wash my hands of your idiocy and your thread. Have a nice day.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ...... japan really truly DID start American involvement in WWII. and you KNOW that Japan really truly murdered  millions of innocent civilians.......





Facts not in contention. You've been told this before, Mexico Mary. Try to pay attention and string together a few moments of clarity.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU need to search all the facts .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What facts, Mexico Mary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't go there, misogynist Unko. ........
Click to expand...



What facts, Mexico Mary?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... Why are you defending the indefensible? WHY? .......




What, in the fog of your dotage, do you imagine me to be defending, Mexico Mary?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> You don't support facist [sic] japan [sic] as some sort of poor poor misunderstood little victims, are [sic] you?  ....





No, and I never have. See how easy it is to answer a question, MM?


----------



## whitehall

williepete said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans that the best "means" to end the war" is to incinerate the (*sub human*?) civilian population of two cities while their leaders were seeking surrender terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the sub human insert? A Truman quote?
> 
> The leaders were seeking a cease fire, not a surrender. Their proposals with the Soviets were a fools errand. Stalin passed few if any of their proposals to Truman. Stalin looked to gain ground in lost Japanese territory.
> 
> Again, why the sub human insert? We wanted our boys home. We wanted to stop the hundreds to thousands of killed/maimed that was going on every day ON BOTH SIDES.
Click to expand...

The sub human insert is based on real evidence that the FDR administration relied on racist stereotypes before the war to convince themselves that the Japanese were a warlike little yellow race incapable of building a ship that would float or a plane that would fly because they had an inherent balance and vision problem. Don't laugh, it was the prevailing intelligence before Pearl Harbor and probably the reason that the FDR administration was blindsided by the "Day of Infamy". The initial stated mission for taking the tiny stinking island of Iwo Jima was to stop Japanese fighters from harassing American bombers on daylight raids of Japan. The stinking atol could have been bombed into oblivion and it's survivors left to starve but the real mission was to sacrifice Marines to encourage public support for using the Atomic Bomb.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> And if a real leader could have brought about an end to the war without incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians with the most terrible weapon ever devised? Would you be for or against that?


For it.  However, anyone who says that could have been done in August 1945 is a fucking revisionist moron.


----------



## Divine Wind

MaryL said:


> We all morn the innocent dead of all nations from  Guernica , Nan King, Coventry to Nagasaki. Perhaps we should leave it at that, yes?


Not the Japanese.  They figure taking China and massacring tens of thousands was their God-given right.


----------



## regent

I think FDR was well aware of the strength of the Japanese armed forces. Iwo was needed as a base closer to Japan so it could be used as a base for the coming invasions.


----------



## Divine Wind

regent said:


> I think FDR was well aware of the strength of the Japanese armed forces. Iwo was needed as a base closer to Japan so it could be used as a base for the coming invasions.


Agreed about FDR.  

Iwo was necessary for the airfield as a landing spot for damaged B-29s returning from raids over Japan.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if a real leader could have brought about an end to the war without incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians with the most terrible weapon ever devised? Would you be for or against that?
> 
> 
> 
> For it.  However, anyone who says that could have been done in August 1945 is a fucking revisionist moron.
Click to expand...



EVIDENCE suggests otherwise.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> We all morn the innocent dead of all nations from  Guernica , Nan King, Coventry to Nagasaki. Perhaps we should leave it at that, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> Not the Japanese.  They figure taking China and massacring tens of thousands was their God-given right.
Click to expand...



Did you fight in WWII?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And if a real leader could have brought about an end to the war without incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians with the most terrible weapon ever devised? Would you be for or against that?
> 
> 
> 
> For it.  ......
Click to expand...



So you would support the incineration of hundreds of thousands of civilians if not (as it was not) militarily necessary?


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> EVIDENCE suggests otherwise.


Evidence suggests you're wrong.....again.

If Japan hadn't taken up fascism and embarked on a campaign to conquer or destroy those who were in their way, would the US have nuked them?


Unkotare said:


> Did you fight in WWII?


No.  Did you? 



Unkotare said:


> So you would support the incineration of hundreds of thousands of civilians if not (as it was not) militarily necessary?


No.  Do you support the "Rape of Nanking"?  Do you support the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor?  Do you support the enslavement of Korean girls for "comfort houses"?  Do you support all of the numerous atrocities committed by Japanese troops such as the massacre of 22 Australian nurses and their patients on Bangka Island? 

Bangka, the Indonesian island haunted by a massacre
_By the morning of the February 16, there were around 90 survivors gathered on this beach. They included allied servicemen, stretcher cases, civilians and 22 of the Australian nurses. A delegation set off for the nearest village, accompanied by the civilian women and children. They were intercepted by a Japanese patrol, which refused their surrender. The civilians were told to walk into Muntok but the others were marched back to the beach.

The able-bodied servicemen was the first group to be taken behind the headland and killed. The Japanese soldiers then returned and set up a machine-gun. Along with one elderly British civilian, who had refused to leave her wounded husband, the nurses were ordered to walk into the sea and then shot. Then it was the turn of the stretcher cases, one of whom included a British soldier, Private Patrick Kingsley.

Although suffering from terrible injuries, Kingsley survived and so did one nurse, Sister Vivian Bullwinkel. Shot in the hip, the bullet went straight through her, missing her vital organs. Vivian lay in the shallows for up to two days, where the salt water cleaned her wounds._



Ten of Japan's worst War Crimes


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> EVIDENCE suggests otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence suggests you're wrong.....again....
Click to expand...



I have provided ample evidence to the contrary.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ... Do you support all of the numerous atrocities committed by Japanese troops ...?
> 
> ...




Of course not, and the facts of those atrocities have never been in contention here despite what you and Mexico Mary keep trying to insist. Are you, like her, trying to claim the atomic bombings were acts of revenge for those atrocities on behalf of the people of China, Korea, and SEA? If so, can you support that claim with evidence?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> We all morn the innocent dead of all nations from  Guernica , Nan King, Coventry to Nagasaki. Perhaps we should leave it at that, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> Not the Japanese.  They figure taking China and massacring tens of thousands was their God-given right.
Click to expand...



Let's see, you did not fight in the war, so why write this in the present tense?


----------



## Divine Wind

regent said:


> For some military leaders it was their only war, and some seemed unable to read the message Japan was sending them with Okinawa and Iwo Jima.


Not sure I follow you here.   Iwo Jima and Okinawa were intensely opposed battles by the Japanese.  They literally fought to the death.  This intensity had increased the closer the US approached Japan.   There was no doubt landing on mainland Japan would not only be intensely fought by the military, but also by much of the population.  The casualty figures were extrapolated from both Iwo and Okinawa, especially Okinawa since it had a civilian population, and those figures were enormous.   Ending the war as fast as possible with a Japanese surrender was of paramount importance.  Since the US had a weapon which could possibly accomplish this task, the decision was made to use it.

Many people don't know that we only had 3 bombs, the test bomb at Trinity and the two dropped on Japan.  We were bluffing when we implied there were more.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Of course not, *and the facts of those atrocities have never been in contention here despite what you and Mexico Mary keep trying to insist. *Are you, like her, trying to claim the atomic bombings were acts of revenge for those atrocities on behalf of the people of China, Korea, and SEA? If so, can you support that claim with evidence?


Ahh, so you only want to discuss dropping an atomic bomb on Hiroshima out of context with the war itself?  Interesting. 

No, the firebombing of Tokyo and the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of war done in order to force Japan to cease and desist in their war against us.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Let's see, you did not fight in the war, so why write this in the present tense?


Because they still feel that way.  You know, like you do.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> [... the firebombing of Tokyo and the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of war done in order to force Japan to cease and desist in their war against us.




You fail to address all the copious evidence I have provided that the atomic bombing was not "necessary" to end the war.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, you did not fight in the war, so why write this in the present tense?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they still feel that way.  ......
Click to expand...



Upon what do you base this ridiculous claim?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ..... You know, like you do.





???????????????????????

What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ... out of context with the war itself? ....




Of course not.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> You fail to address all the copious evidence I have provided that the atomic bombing was not "necessary" to end the war.


Wrong, I did address it.   Scroll up.  Look for words like "revisionist moron".



Unkotare said:


> Of course not.


Thanks for the flip flop.  Agreed the entire war, from beginning to end should be taken into context.  Ergo, the use of atomic weapons to end the war must be taken in the context of a land invasion of the Japanese home islands.



Unkotare said:


> ???????????????????????
> 
> What the hell are you talking about?


Wow!  An evasion.  Interesting.

Your defense of Japan's actions and your attacks on the US for not "playing fair" or words to that effect.



Unkotare said:


> Upon what do you base this ridiculous claim?


If you keep wanting me to answer the same fucking questions over and over again until you get the answers you want, you're going to be disappointed.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ...  There was no doubt landing on mainland Japan would not only be intensely fought by the military, but also by much of the population.  ....




The population that was starving to death? The women, elderly, and children who were about the only folks yet to be conscripted?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You fail to address all the copious evidence I have provided that the atomic bombing was not "necessary" to end the war.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, I did address it.   Scroll up.  Look for words like "revisionist moron".....
Click to expand...



Your subjective declarations are not "support" for a "claim." Do you understand the terms?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ...
> Thanks for the flip flop.  ....




There has been no flip-flop.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ...Wow!  An evasion.  Interesting......




What "evasion"? I have defended no atrocities at all. Are you backing into the corner of dishonesty now?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ....
> If you keep wanting me to answer the same fucking questions over and over again......




Try answering once. Just once. What exactly did you mean by "like you do"? Answer once, not "over and over again."


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Your subjective declarations are not "support" for a "claim." Do you understand the terms?


Disagreed.  Yes.  Do you?



Unkotare said:


> What "evasion"? I have defended no atrocities at all. Are you backing into the corner of dishonesty now?


Yes.  Disagreed.  No, but I think you are very dishonest....


Unkotare said:


> Try answering once. Just once. What exactly did you mean by "like you do"? Answer once, not "over and over again."


....and a bit of a whining nag too.



Unkotare said:


> There has been no flip-flop.


Disagreed.  You want it both ways and often want to gloss over anything detrimental to Japan.  This thread is but one of dozens of examples by you.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ...  Do you?.....




Yes I do. That's why I have provided links, facts, and direct quotes from political and military leaders of the day. You have provided nothing but emotion and faulty logic.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Yes I do. That's why I have provided links, facts, and direct quotes from political and military leaders of the day. ..


Dude, a link to someone elses opinion is still an opinion, but you are free to believe whatever revisionist crap you like.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ..... I think you are very dishonest.........




How, specifically?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I do. That's why I have provided links, facts, and direct quotes from political and military leaders of the day. ..
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, a link to someone elses opinion is still an opinion, but you are free to believe whatever revisionist crap you like.
Click to expand...



Hiroshima: Quotes


Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ..... You want it both ways......




That is a false accusation. Support it with evidence or withdraw it at once.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> How, specifically?


Several ways, but the one that comes to mind is your continual habit of accusing others of being dishonest while denying any of your own.  You use the common, immature tactic of "read all my others posts" as a defense before you launch into a full on emotional outburst against others such as calling them Nazis or supportive of atrocities.  

I think the basis is this is due to your deep realization, but never admitted, that you know you are wrong.  You remind me of the political partisans who exaggerate their points in order to move the opposition toward the middle, which is where they want things to be.  It's a common tactic, but, let's be honest, it's also dishonest since it uses lies AKA exaggerations to make a point.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> That is a false accusation. Support it with evidence or withdraw it at once.


Disagreed, but this is tiresome.  Argue with yourself.  You've got the two-faced part down.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> How, specifically?
> 
> 
> 
> Several ways, but the one that comes to mind is your continual habit of accusing others of being dishonest while denying any of your own. .....
Click to expand...



So, show me where you consider me as having been dishonest and I'll address it directly.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is a false accusation. Support it with evidence or withdraw it at once.
> 
> 
> 
> Disagreed, but this is tiresome.  Argue with yourself.
Click to expand...



You mean to say you _cannot_ support your position at all. Is that it? Be honest enough to admit it before you run away.


----------



## Unkotare

Well, ran away completely.  Figures.


----------



## regent

When Japan finally decided to surrender it found the means to communicate with America, rather quickly. Two bombs and the war was over.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I do. That's why I have provided links, facts, and direct quotes from political and military leaders of the day. ..
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, a link to someone elses opinion is still an opinion, but you are free to believe whatever revisionist crap you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hiroshima: Quotes
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Theowl32

Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.

As highlighted by the baby on a bayonet in the picture below.







I do not shed one single tear.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.
> 
> .......






So you're saying the use of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China? Can you support that claim with evidence?


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.
> 
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying the use of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China? Can you support that claim with evidence?
Click to expand...

They reaped exactly what they had coming to them.  They asked for the thunder and they got it. Their false worship and their wicked ways. They got precisely what was coming to them. 

Their atrocities are very well documented.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.
> 
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying the use of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China? Can you support that claim with evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They reaped exactly what they had coming to them.  They asked for the thunder and they got it. Their false worship and their wicked ways. They got precisely what was coming to them.
> 
> Their atrocities are very well documented.
Click to expand...




I asked you a question.


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.
> 
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying the use of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China? Can you support that claim with evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They reaped exactly what they had coming to them.  They asked for the thunder and they got it. Their false worship and their wicked ways. They got precisely what was coming to them.
> 
> Their atrocities are very well documented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you a question.
Click to expand...

And I answered your fucking question


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.
> 
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying the use of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China? Can you support that claim with evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They reaped exactly what they had coming to them.  They asked for the thunder and they got it. Their false worship and their wicked ways. They got precisely what was coming to them.
> 
> Their atrocities are very well documented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I answered your fucking question
Click to expand...




You most certainly did not.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.
> 
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying the use of the atomic bombs was an act of revenge on behalf of China? Can you support that claim with evidence?
Click to expand...






Yes or no?


----------



## CultureCitizen

Steven_R said:


> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.



So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.


----------



## xband

Theowl32 said:


> Fucking japs reaped the whirlwind for their long list of atrocities leading up to WWII.
> 
> As highlighted by the baby on a bayonet in the picture below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not shed one single tear.



There is truth in that picture. My girlfriend was from the Philippines and her mom said that Japanese soldiers would toss up babies and catch them on bayonets. I was in the Navy and just came from the gunline in Vietnam and went to Sake Town in Sasebo that is not too far from Hiroshima. I saw a neon sign of a battleship and went in. The walls were painted with Japanese ships and airplanes shooting up American ships. I turned around and started to walk out when I was grabbed by both arms and insisted that I sit at their low table on rice mats and shoes off. Free sake and food and found out it was a Japanese Officer VFW, for lack of a better term. We all had a good time telling war stories.


----------



## Theowl32

CultureCitizen said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.
Click to expand...

Actually it was not. Let me give you the three choices Truman actually had along with the timeline of events. 

In February of 1945 the USSR and US officially started the COLD WAR after the Yalta Conference. Look it up. 

USSR showed they had no desire to be allies and Stalin was looking into expanding their territory and expanding communism. They began to encroach into the middle east and they had a desire to take over the trade routes of the middle east. 

Stalin was declaring his desire to take over the region, even after the Potsdam Conferences in July of 1945. 

August 8th, the day before Nagasaki, the USSR had declared war on Japan. On August 9th Nagasaki bomb dropped. USSR backs off and Japan surrenders. 

So, if you are Truman, here are the three choices. 

1. Allow Stalin to take over the region, allow Japan to surrender to the USSR where Japan through propaganda could save face instead of a humiliating surrender to the US. How would that play out with the American people after the years of the Pacific campaign that cost thousands of American lives, where the USSR did not commit anything to that campaign? 

2. Declare war on the USSR like Patton wanted. Logistically it made some sense as Patton said. The US hardware was already there. The US war factories were in good working order. The USSR were very weary after a long drawn out battle with Hitler. However, they were still formidable. Stalin had moved most of their factories east and far away from Hitler's reach. They had a formidable airforce and navy. A war with the USSR would have been devastating and the US would have had to go it alone. The UK would not have joined us. It would have been an almost impossible to sell to the American people. 

3. Drop the bombs to force the USSR (Stalin) to back off, or else. 

Those are the choices. Explain why the USSR declared war after Hiroshima on August 8th and then backed off after the second bomb was dropped.


----------



## xband

Theowl32 said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it was not. Let me give you the three choices Truman actually had along with the timeline of events.
> 
> In February of 1945 the USSR and US officially started the COLD WAR after the Yalta Conference. Look it up.
> 
> USSR showed they had no desire to be allies and Stalin was looking into expanding their territory and expanding communism. They began to encroach into the middle east and they had a desire to take over the trade routes of the middle east.
> 
> Stalin was declaring his desire to take over the region, even after the Potsdam Conferences in July of 1945.
> 
> August 8th, the day before Nagasaki, the USSR had declared war on Japan. On August 9th Nagasaki bomb dropped. USSR backs off and Japan surrenders.
> 
> So, if you are Truman, here are the three choices.
> 
> 1. Allow Stalin to take over the region, allow Japan to surrender to the USSR where Japan through propaganda could save face instead of a humiliating surrender to the US. How would that play out with the American people after the years of the Pacific campaign that cost thousands of American lives, where the USSR did not commit anything to that campaign?
> 
> 2. Declare war on the USSR like Patton wanted. Logistically it made some sense as Patton said. The US hardware was already there. The US war factories were in good working order. The USSR were very weary after a long drawn out battle with Hitler. However, they were still formidable. Stalin had moved most of their factories east and far away from Hitler's reach. They had a formidable airforce and navy. A war with the USSR would have been devastating and the US would have had to go it alone. The UK would not have joined us. It would have been an almost impossible to sell to the American people.
> 
> 3. Drop the bombs to force the USSR (Stalin) to back off, or else.
> 
> Those are the choices. Explain why the USSR declared war after Hiroshima on August 8th and then backed off after the second bomb was dropped.
Click to expand...


I bet that I am the only one on the board who has shook hands with Harry Truman in his private office inside the Truman Library. The year was 1963 when I was 12 years old. Harry Truman was a short man that I did not know and I was a little taller than him that he pointed out. Harry Truman told me to study History.


----------



## Vastator

After reading the entirety of this thread; I am shocked to see how many people fail to grasp the concept of "Unrestricted Warfare". In warfare, there is no moral high ground. Only victory, or defeat. War means shaking off the shackles of civility; and using any means one can conceive of to implement domination over your enemies.


----------



## Theowl32

Vastator said:


> After reading the entirety of this thread; I am shocked to see how many people fail to grasp the concept of "Unrestricted Warfare". In warfare, there is no moral high ground. Only victory, or defeat. War means shaking off the shackles of civility; and using any means one can conceive of to implement domination over your enemies.


If you are paying attention (not even that close of attention) you will notice the left AROUND THE WORLD only hold America to the lofty ideals of the Geneva convention.

Notice how there is only feigned outrage over what the torturers and murderers of isis (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of brown colored people) are doing around the world. Really not much as far as hype. Throwing gays off of rooftops for being gay, stoning women for showing skin or being raped, burning prisoners alive, burying children alive, systematically killing Christians (they actually love that), boiling prisoners in hot oil to death, or hijacking passenger airliners and using those planes with ALL of those civilians as missiles. In fact they blame America (of course they do) for those actions.

Oh, but when America waterboards (not torture) 5 of those stink apes who planned those 911 attacks, all of a sudden the entire world reaction is....






In fact they still try their best to under report or obfuscate titles. Like when that "truck" killed all of those people in France.

It is not just this country.


----------



## Unkotare

xband said:


> ..... I was in the Navy and just came from the gunline in Vietnam and went to Sake Town in Sasebo that is not too far from Hiroshima. I saw a neon sign of a battleship and went in. The walls were painted with Japanese ships and airplanes shooting up American ships. I turned around and started to walk out when I was grabbed by both arms and insisted that I sit at their low table on rice mats and shoes off. Free sake and food and found out it was a Japanese Officer VFW, for lack of a better term. We all had a good time telling war stories.





That was the worst fake story written here in a long time.


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare
unkotare \ woon-ko-ta-re \ , noun;

Japanese. Roughly translated as dripping poop. This word is used to describe a pornographic genre commonly known as Scat.
"Hey Bro checkout this sweet unkotare video I found... it is super kawaii-desu"


----------



## Divine Wind

Theowl32 said:


> ...Those are the choices. Explain why the USSR declared war after Hiroshima on August 8th and then backed off after the second bomb was dropped.


1) The Soviets didn't back off, they took the Sakhalin islands on 11AUG45.   Sakhalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2)  Like Nazi scientists, the Japanese may have prefered submission to the Americans rather than domination by the Soviets; ergo just another reason to surrender quickly.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> .... (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of *brown colored people*) .... those stink apes .....





And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of *brown colored people*) .... those stink apes .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.
Click to expand...

Took you long enough you poop dripping pervert.


----------



## Unkotare

Vastator said:


> After reading the entirety of this thread; I am shocked to see how many people fail to grasp the concept of "Unrestricted Warfare". In warfare, there is no moral high ground. Only victory, or defeat. War means shaking off the shackles of civility; and using any means one can conceive of to implement domination over your enemies.




So, when we began military action in Afghanistan in 2001, you think we should have targeted schools and hospital specifically "to implement domination"? Is that what you think America should be?


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of *brown colored people*) .... those stink apes .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took you long enough .......
Click to expand...



Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of *brown colored people*) .... those stink apes .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took you long enough .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.
Click to expand...

The JAPS got exactly what they had coming to them. They reaped the whirlwind from the disgusting seeds they planted.

Not one tear.

I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> So, when we began military action in Afghanistan in 2001, you think we should have targeted schools and hospital specifically "to implement domination"? Is that what you think America should be?


Typical Dripping Poop tactics: goal post moving and straw man arguments.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of *brown colored people*) .... those stink apes .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took you long enough .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The JAPS [sic] got exactly what they had coming to them. They reaped the whirlwind from the disgusting seeds they planted.
> 
> Not one tear.
> 
> I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.
Click to expand...



You reveal your ignorance with every post. And once again, where is the documentation that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> [... goal post moving and straw man arguments.





How, specifically?


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of *brown colored people*) .... those stink apes .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took you long enough .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The JAPS [sic] got exactly what they had coming to them. They reaped the whirlwind from the disgusting seeds they planted.
> 
> Not one tear.
> 
> I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You reveal your ignorance with every post. And once again, where is the documentation that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge?
Click to expand...

Good Lord you japs are easy to fuck with.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> [... goal post moving and straw man arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How, specifically?
Click to expand...

You've dodged at least a half dozen salient points on your own thread in a pursuit to avoid accepting the Japanese Empire's responsibilities for their own destruction in WWII.

The basic reason for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is summed up in the picture below.  If the Japanese hadn't attacked the US in December 1941, we wouldn't have bombed them in August 1945.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Took you long enough .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The JAPS [sic] got exactly what they had coming to them. They reaped the whirlwind from the disgusting seeds they planted.
> 
> Not one tear.
> 
> I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You reveal your ignorance with every post. And once again, where is the documentation that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good Lord you japs [sic] are easy to fuck with.
Click to expand...


What the hell are you talking about, fool?


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took you long enough .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The JAPS [sic] got exactly what they had coming to them. They reaped the whirlwind from the disgusting seeds they planted.
> 
> Not one tear.
> 
> I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You reveal your ignorance with every post. And once again, where is the documentation that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good Lord you japs [sic] are easy to fuck with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell are you talking about, fool?
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> [... goal post moving and straw man arguments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How, specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've dodged at least a half dozen salient points .....
Click to expand...





I have "dodged" exactly nothing.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.
> 
> 
> 
> The JAPS [sic] got exactly what they had coming to them. They reaped the whirlwind from the disgusting seeds they planted.
> 
> Not one tear.
> 
> I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You reveal your ignorance with every post. And once again, where is the documentation that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good Lord you japs [sic] are easy to fuck with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell are you talking about, fool?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...












Can't (or are afraid to) answer? Figures.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> ........
> 
> I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.





Some 'people' ^^^^^^ are completely shameless about their ignorance. It must be the only way they can live with themselves.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"


.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)


.


----------



## CultureCitizen

Theowl32 said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it was not. Let me give you the three choices Truman actually had along with the timeline of events.
> 
> In February of 1945 the USSR and US officially started the COLD WAR after the Yalta Conference. Look it up.
> 
> USSR showed they had no desire to be allies and Stalin was looking into expanding their territory and expanding communism. They began to encroach into the middle east and they had a desire to take over the trade routes of the middle east.
> 
> Stalin was declaring his desire to take over the region, even after the Potsdam Conferences in July of 1945.
> 
> August 8th, the day before Nagasaki, the USSR had declared war on Japan. On August 9th Nagasaki bomb dropped. USSR backs off and Japan surrenders.
> 
> So, if you are Truman, here are the three choices.
> 
> 1. Allow Stalin to take over the region, allow Japan to surrender to the USSR where Japan through propaganda could save face instead of a humiliating surrender to the US. How would that play out with the American people after the years of the Pacific campaign that cost thousands of American lives, where the USSR did not commit anything to that campaign?
> 
> 2. Declare war on the USSR like Patton wanted. Logistically it made some sense as Patton said. The US hardware was already there. The US war factories were in good working order. The USSR were very weary after a long drawn out battle with Hitler. However, they were still formidable. Stalin had moved most of their factories east and far away from Hitler's reach. They had a formidable airforce and navy. A war with the USSR would have been devastating and the US would have had to go it alone. The UK would not have joined us. It would have been an almost impossible to sell to the American people.
> 
> 3. Drop the bombs to force the USSR (Stalin) to back off, or else.
> 
> Those are the choices. Explain why the USSR declared war after Hiroshima on August 8th and then backed off after the second bomb was dropped.
Click to expand...


At that time? Hard to tell. Information hardly traveled with the speed and accuracy it does today. It is likely they found about the real devastation of the bomb a couple of days later.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

In any case after the second bomb Japan managed to surrender quickly. Perhaps Hirohito needed to assume command earlier?


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In any case after the second bomb Japan managed to surrender quickly. Perhaps Hirohito needed to assume command earlier?
Click to expand...


Some people never read links before responding to them.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In any case after the second bomb Japan managed to surrender quickly. Perhaps Hirohito needed to assume command earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some people never real links before responding to them.
Click to expand...

The Japanese were trying to negotiate terms which would give them some of the    things they wanted which had led to Pearl Harbor. Truman was having none of it,


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In any case after the second bomb Japan managed to surrender quickly. Perhaps Hirohito needed to assume command earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some people never real links before responding to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Japanese were trying to negotiate terms ......
Click to expand...




Which turned out to be the same terms we ultimately agreed to anyway. But to idol-worshipers like you, the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians don't matter, do they?


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> ... Truman was having none of it,




Truman was there to do what fdr would have done, and he obeyed.


----------



## Unkotare

"In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the _Washington Times-Herald_, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86_Journal_, pp. 508-512.)

This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor. Specifically, the terms of these peace overtures included:


Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
Surrender of designated war criminals."

Was Hiroshima Necessary?


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In any case after the second bomb Japan managed to surrender quickly. Perhaps Hirohito needed to assume command earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some people never real links before responding to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Japanese were trying to negotiate terms ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which turned out to be the same terms we ultimately agreed to anyway. But to idol-worshipers like you, the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians don't matter, do they?
Click to expand...

What I idolize is that we didn't have to invade Japan and lose all those American lives. As for the terms, they were America's terms. If we allowed Japan to keep the emperor and not have any of the possessions they had captured it was our decision. It goes with winning a war.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> "In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the _Washington Times-Herald_, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86_Journal_, pp. 508-512.)
> 
> This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor. Specifically, the terms of these peace overtures included:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
> Surrender of designated war criminals."
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?


.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> I have "dodged" exactly nothing.


You did it again in the post of mine you quoted.  You know, the part you truncated out.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> ]Was Hiroshima Necessary?


From the link: "_On the night of March 9-10, 1945, a wave of 300 American bombers struck Tokyo, *killing 100,000 people*. Dropping nearly 1,700 tons of bombs, the war planes ravaged much of the capital city, completely *burning out 16 square miles* and destroying a quarter of a million structures. A million residents were left homeless.

On May 23, eleven weeks later, came the greatest air raid of the Pacific War, when 520 giant B-29 "Superfortress" bombers unleashed 4,500 tons of incendiary bombs on the heart of the already battered Japanese capital. Generating gale-force winds, the exploding incendiaries obliterated Tokyo's commercial center and railway yards, and consumed the Ginza entertainment district. Two days later, on May 25, a second strike of 502 "Superfortress" planes roared low over Tokyo, raining down some 4,000 tons of explosives. Together these two B-29 raids *destroyed 56 square miles of the Japanese capital*._"

What the article doesn't do is list the casualties of all the fire bombing raids on Japan that year?  Why?  Could it be because more died in some of those raids than at Hiroshima or Nagasaki?  Why the outcry over 90,000 dead and 4 square miles of city center destroyed when twice that number died and a lot more area was destroyed in a single the fire raid on Tokyo?  Not to mention the 66 other fire bombing raids on Imperial Japan.  War is bad.  Next time Japan shouldn't start one. 

Japanese Cities

The Tokyo Fire Raids, 1945

Firebombing of Tokyo - Mar 09, 1945 - HISTORY.com


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have "dodged" exactly nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> You did it again in the post of mine you quoted.  You know, the part you truncated out.
Click to expand...



Not at all. Be specific if you need to be corrected.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Not at all. Be specific if you need to be corrected.


I'm betting you were the dodge ball champ of your high school.


----------



## Steven_R

CultureCitizen said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.
Click to expand...


Not at all. After Hiroshima and the Japanese failed to respond to the surrender response, we had to assume they either A) hadn't gotten the message or B) were still going to make a last stand.

So Nagasaki A) reinforced the message, effectively saying we were going to keep it up (they had no way of knowing we were out of bombs) or B) took out a shipyard and a Headquarters for the defense.

Sucks for the locals, but that's war.


----------



## Vastator

A nations soldiers, are strongly motivated to fight for their people. When engaging in unrestricted warfare; it makes sense to destroy your opponents motivation. War is hell. Civilians are "fair game" if you wish to see your adversary completely destroyed, or subjugated. Imperial Japan knew this well, and used it to great advantage. However as Hiroshima, and Nagasaki proved they were ill equipped to withstand the same.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. Be specific if you need to be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm betting you were the dodge ball champ of your high school.
Click to expand...



No. Now, do you have something specific you need correction on?


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> "In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the _Washington Times-Herald_, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86_Journal_, pp. 508-512.)
> 
> This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor. Specifically, the terms of these peace overtures included:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
> Surrender of designated war criminals."
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?


.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In any case after the second bomb Japan managed to surrender quickly. Perhaps Hirohito needed to assume command earlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Some people never real links before responding to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Japanese were trying to negotiate terms ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which turned out to be the same terms we ultimately agreed to anyway. But to idol-worshipers like you, the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians don't matter, do they?
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... (or whatever stink smelly terror group that consists mainly of *brown colored people*) .... those stink apes .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now we see the real motivation behind your commenting here at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took you long enough .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trolling the history forum and go back to the race forum. Better yet, go back to stromfront and stay there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The JAPS [sic] got exactly what they had coming to them. They reaped the whirlwind from the disgusting seeds they planted.
> 
> Not one tear.
> 
> I only wished they dropped them sooner, and a few more than two. Especially right in the middle of Tokyo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You reveal your ignorance with every post. And once again, where is the documentation that the dropping of the bombs was an act of revenge?
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading the entirety of this thread; I am shocked to see how many people fail to grasp the concept of "Unrestricted Warfare". In warfare, there is no moral high ground. Only victory, or defeat. War means shaking off the shackles of civility; and using any means one can conceive of to implement domination over your enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, when we began military action in Afghanistan in 2001, you think we should have targeted schools and hospital specifically "to implement domination"? Is that what you think America should be?
Click to expand...





Well?


----------



## CultureCitizen

Steven_R said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all. After Hiroshima and the Japanese failed to respond to the surrender response, we had to assume they either A) hadn't gotten the message or B) were still going to make a last stand.
> 
> So Nagasaki A) reinforced the message, effectively saying we were going to keep it up (they had no way of knowing we were out of bombs) or B) took out a shipyard and a Headquarters for the defense.
> 
> Sucks for the locals, but that's war.
Click to expand...


Let's see:
  Hiroshima bomb - August 6
  Call for surrender - August 6 ( 16 hours after bomb explosion ) . 
  Nagasiaki bomb - August 9 
  Hirohito capitulation announcement - August 14. 

If that was the case why didn't they drop another bomb in August 12? ... logistics , probably. 
Even after the second bombing it took them 5 days to surrender. It is clear that 2.5 days were not nearly enough for the bad news to sink in... I stand by my position: pure sadism.


----------



## Vastator

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading the entirety of this thread; I am shocked to see how many people fail to grasp the concept of "Unrestricted Warfare". In warfare, there is no moral high ground. Only victory, or defeat. War means shaking off the shackles of civility; and using any means one can conceive of to implement domination over your enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, when we began military action in Afghanistan in 2001, you think we should have targeted schools and hospital specifically "to implement domination"? Is that what you think America should be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well?
Click to expand...

Afghanistan is a whole nuther thread. But without leaving you hanging; and as to not derail this thread; I'll simply say this. I believe our country should not invade another country unless we have decided in advance to keep the real estate for ourselves. For revenge purposes carpet bombing and such will do just fine.


----------



## Steven_R

CultureCitizen said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all. After Hiroshima and the Japanese failed to respond to the surrender response, we had to assume they either A) hadn't gotten the message or B) were still going to make a last stand.
> 
> So Nagasaki A) reinforced the message, effectively saying we were going to keep it up (they had no way of knowing we were out of bombs) or B) took out a shipyard and a Headquarters for the defense.
> 
> Sucks for the locals, but that's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see:
> Hiroshima bomb - August 6
> Call for surrender - August 6 ( 16 hours after bomb explosion ) .
> Nagasiaki bomb - August 9
> Hirohito capitulation announcement - August 14.
> 
> If that was the case why didn't they drop another bomb in August 12? ... logistics , probably.
> Even after the second bombing it took them 5 days to surrender. It is clear that 2.5 days were not nearly enough for the bad news to sink in... I stand by my position: pure sadism.
Click to expand...

 
The 8th was when the Soviets declared war on the Nips. We didn't drop a bomb on the 12th because we didn't have another bomb to drop.The 14th is when the hard liners tried to throw a coup. The 15th is when Hirohito announced the surrender.


----------



## Unkotare

Vastator said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading the entirety of this thread; I am shocked to see how many people fail to grasp the concept of "Unrestricted Warfare". In warfare, there is no moral high ground. Only victory, or defeat. War means shaking off the shackles of civility; and using any means one can conceive of to implement domination over your enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, when we began military action in Afghanistan in 2001, you think we should have targeted schools and hospital specifically "to implement domination"? Is that what you think America should be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Afghanistan is a whole nuther thread. But without leaving you hanging; and as to not derail this thread; I'll simply say this. I believe our country should not invade another country unless we have decided in advance to keep the real estate for ourselves. For revenge purposes carpet bombing and such will do just fine.
Click to expand...







So you would support targeting and destroying a school or a hospital for no military purpose? Just to 'punish' the civilians?


----------



## Theowl32

CultureCitizen said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're still giving out Purple Heart medals made for the expected casualties that we would have suffered in an invasion of Japan. Think about that for a moment, the sheer number of killed and wounded we've suffered in Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other battles along we way and with all those casualties, we've still not exceeded the number of casualties from one expected WW2 campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So even assuming the first bomb was necesary... the second bomb was pure sadism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all. After Hiroshima and the Japanese failed to respond to the surrender response, we had to assume they either A) hadn't gotten the message or B) were still going to make a last stand.
> 
> So Nagasaki A) reinforced the message, effectively saying we were going to keep it up (they had no way of knowing we were out of bombs) or B) took out a shipyard and a Headquarters for the defense.
> 
> Sucks for the locals, but that's war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's see:
> Hiroshima bomb - August 6
> Call for surrender - August 6 ( 16 hours after bomb explosion ) .
> Nagasiaki bomb - August 9
> Hirohito capitulation announcement - August 14.
> 
> If that was the case why didn't they drop another bomb in August 12? ... logistics , probably.
> Even after the second bombing it took them 5 days to surrender. It is clear that 2.5 days were not nearly enough for the bad news to sink in... I stand by my position: pure sadism.
Click to expand...

Typical American hating left wing ass. 

Here research all of these. 

Following Japan's brutal invasion of China in 1937, Japanese soldiers frequently rounded up Chinese to provide them with bayonet practice. After the fall of Nanking (Nanjing), these unfortunate Chinese were herded into one of many slaughter pits and are shown providing Japanese soldiers with bayonet practice using live victims. This photograph was taken by a Japanese and processed in a Japanese-owned photographic shop. A Chinese photographic technician made copies that were smuggled out of China.

*INDEX TO SELECTED IMPERIAL JAPANESE ARMY WAR CRIMES*

The Rape of Nanking (1937), also known as the Nanjing Massacre

The Bangka Island Massacre (1942): Slaughter of Australian Army Nurses

The Bataan Death March (1942)

The Sandakan Death March (1945)

Murder and cannibalism on the Kokoda Track (1942)

Conscripting women for sexual slavery in Japanese Army brothels (1937-1945)

Mutilation and murder of Dutch civilians in Borneo

Murder and cannibalism - captured American pilots

Go ahead and start with the cannibalism of our pilots. You can also start with the mass rape of Nanking. 






Here, the Bangka Island Massacre of 1942. 






Bodies of massacred Chinese. 






Thousands of babies thrown into the air and caught on a bayonet in front of the mothers. They then raped the mothers before killing them. Read the archived incidents. 

----------------------

I have a feeling I could list and post photo after photo of things they did medically to prisoners where they systematically executed them before doing all sorts of experiments. The japs were ruthless, merciless animals who worshiped their false gods. They reaped EXACTLY what they sowed. 

Period. 

Take your academic temptation to blame everything and flame America and shove it. I know you wont read it, and even if you did, it will have no effect.


----------



## Vastator

Unkotare said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading the entirety of this thread; I am shocked to see how many people fail to grasp the concept of "Unrestricted Warfare". In warfare, there is no moral high ground. Only victory, or defeat. War means shaking off the shackles of civility; and using any means one can conceive of to implement domination over your enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, when we began military action in Afghanistan in 2001, you think we should have targeted schools and hospital specifically "to implement domination"? Is that what you think America should be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Afghanistan is a whole nuther thread. But without leaving you hanging; and as to not derail this thread; I'll simply say this. I believe our country should not invade another country unless we have decided in advance to keep the real estate for ourselves. For revenge purposes carpet bombing and such will do just fine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you would support targeting and destroying a school or a hospital for no military purpose? Just to 'punish' the civilians?
Click to expand...

Never without military purpose... That would become too expensive.


----------



## CultureCitizen

Theowl32 said:


> Typical American hating left wing ass.
> 
> Here research all of these.
> 
> Following Japan's brutal invasion of China in 1937, Japanese soldiers frequently rounded up Chinese to provide them with bayonet practice. After the fall of Nanking (Nanjing), these unfortunate Chinese were herded into one of many slaughter pits and are shown providing Japanese soldiers with bayonet practice using live victims. This photograph was taken by a Japanese and processed in a Japanese-owned photographic shop. A Chinese photographic technician made copies that were smuggled out of China.



American hating? Just for saying one atomic bomb was enough? Really? There is no logic to the way you reason.


----------



## Theowl32

CultureCitizen said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical American hating left wing ass.
> 
> Here research all of these.
> 
> Following Japan's brutal invasion of China in 1937, Japanese soldiers frequently rounded up Chinese to provide them with bayonet practice. After the fall of Nanking (Nanjing), these unfortunate Chinese were herded into one of many slaughter pits and are shown providing Japanese soldiers with bayonet practice using live victims. This photograph was taken by a Japanese and processed in a Japanese-owned photographic shop. A Chinese photographic technician made copies that were smuggled out of China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American hating? Just for saying one atomic bomb was enough? Really? There is no logic to the way you reason.
Click to expand...

You have no grasp on history.  You obviously have totally ignored the fact that the USSR was a clear factor.


----------



## CultureCitizen

Theowl32 said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical American hating left wing ass.
> 
> Here research all of these.
> 
> Following Japan's brutal invasion of China in 1937, Japanese soldiers frequently rounded up Chinese to provide them with bayonet practice. After the fall of Nanking (Nanjing), these unfortunate Chinese were herded into one of many slaughter pits and are shown providing Japanese soldiers with bayonet practice using live victims. This photograph was taken by a Japanese and processed in a Japanese-owned photographic shop. A Chinese photographic technician made copies that were smuggled out of China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American hating? Just for saying one atomic bomb was enough? Really? There is no logic to the way you reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no grasp on history.  You obviously have totally ignored the fact that the USSR was a clear factor.
Click to expand...


That doesn't make me an "American hater".
Certainly the japanese army perpetrated terrible crimes. But that doesn't mean the rest of the japanese should be punished with such a terrible weapon: most of the casualties were civilians.
Yes, the USSR was a factor : they were ready to enter China... some argue that such invasion was the real reason why Japanese surrendered and not the bomb.

"...it was only in a gradual manner that the horrible wreckage which had been of hiroshima had been known.."

General Masakazu Kawabe

Skip to minute 31


----------



## Divine Wind

Vastator said:


> A nations soldiers, are strongly motivated to fight for their people. When engaging in unrestricted warfare; it makes sense to destroy your opponents motivation. War is hell. Civilians are "fair game" if you wish to see your adversary completely destroyed, or subjugated. Imperial Japan knew this well, and used it to great advantage. However as Hiroshima, and Nagasaki proved they were ill equipped to withstand the same.


Another factor is that the civilian population, whether they wanted to do so or not, and most were willing, supported the war effort through cottage industries.

The Fire Raids on Japan - History Learning Site
_LeMay decided that Tokyo would be the first target for a massive raid on Japan itself. The raid was planned for the night of March 10th and the B-29’s were to fly at between 5,000 and 8,000 feet. As Japan was not expected to send up night fighters, the guns from the planes were taken off as was anything that was deemed not useful to the raid. By effectively stripping the plane of non-essentials, more bombs could be carried for the raid. *Along with Tokyo, Kobe, Osaka and Nagoya were also targeted. As each had flourishing cottage industries that fed the factories of each city,* LeMay hoped to starve these factories of required parts. He also hoped that the fires that would be started would also destroy the larger factories as well. As the target for the raid was so large – a city area – the B-29’s did not have to fly in strict formation, especially as little resistance was expected from the Japanese.

The incendiary bombs dropped were known as M-69’s. These weighed just 6 lbs each and were dropped in a cluster of 38 within a container. One B-29 usually carried 37 of these containers, which equated to just over 1,400 bombs per plane. The bombs were set free from the container at 5,000 feet by a time fuse and then exploded on contact with the ground. When they did this, they spread a jelly-petrol compound that was highly inflammable.

For the attack on Tokyo, over 300 B-29’s were involved. They took off for a flight that would get them to Tokyo just before dawn, thus giving them the cover of darkness, but with daylight for the return journey to the Marianas. They flew at 7,000 feet. This in itself may have baffled the city’s defenders as they would have been used to the B-29’s flying at 30,000 feet.

The raid had a massive impact on Tokyo. Photo-reconnaissance showed that 16 square miles of the city had been destroyed. *Sixteen major factories – ironically scheduled for a future daylight raid – were destroyed along with many cottage industries.* In parts of the city, the fires joined up to create a firestorm. The fires burned so fiercely and they consumed so much oxygen, that people in the locality suffocated. It is thought that 100,000 people were killed in the raid and another 100,000 injured. The Americans lost 14 B-29’s; under the 5% rate of loss that was considered to be ‘acceptable’._


----------



## Unkotare

CultureCitizen said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical American hating left wing ass.
> 
> Here research all of these.
> 
> Following Japan's brutal invasion of China in 1937, Japanese soldiers frequently rounded up Chinese to provide them with bayonet practice. After the fall of Nanking (Nanjing), these unfortunate Chinese were herded into one of many slaughter pits and are shown providing Japanese soldiers with bayonet practice using live victims. This photograph was taken by a Japanese and processed in a Japanese-owned photographic shop. A Chinese photographic technician made copies that were smuggled out of China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American hating? Just for saying one atomic bomb was enough? Really? There is no logic to the way you reason.
Click to expand...







He wouldn't know logic if it picked him up and dropped him on his face.


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical American hating left wing ass.
> 
> Here research all of these.
> 
> Following Japan's brutal invasion of China in 1937, Japanese soldiers frequently rounded up Chinese to provide them with bayonet practice. After the fall of Nanking (Nanjing), these unfortunate Chinese were herded into one of many slaughter pits and are shown providing Japanese soldiers with bayonet practice using live victims. This photograph was taken by a Japanese and processed in a Japanese-owned photographic shop. A Chinese photographic technician made copies that were smuggled out of China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American hating? Just for saying one atomic bomb was enough? Really? There is no logic to the way you reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wouldn't know logic if it picked him up and dropped him on his face.
Click to expand...

I love how the two of you ignore the atrocities committed by those fucking stink zipper heads.  Yeah, you are so fucking ignorant about history. Especially about the fucking japs.

I mean cannibalism? The stink sandapes in the middle east don't even do that. Oh, but a bunch of pathetic small japs? 

Fucking japs. 

Tell us again how John Adams did not sign the sedition act into law. That was pretty funny, even when I showed you the documented proof.

I notice too how you don't deny what your name is. Dripping poop.

Holy shit.

The fucking japs got what was coming to them. If they were not the fucking animals they were, those two cities would still be there.

Oh, and all of those zipper heads that lived there were cheering their country and their barbarism.  All of them got what they deserved.

I only wish more were dropped on that fucking island.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> .....
> I love how the two of you ignore the atrocities......





Here again you prove the point that you have no idea what logic is. No atrocities have been denied here by anyone. You keep repeating points not in contention because you have NOTHING of substance to say about the actual topic.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> ....
> 
> Tell us again how John Adams did not sign the sedition act into law........




I never said that, you dishonest turd. YOU said that Adams "passed" the law, because you do not understand how our form of government works, moron.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> .......
> 
> I only wish more were dropped on that fucking island.







Once again revealing your juvenile ignorance.


----------



## Theowl32

Holy shit


----------



## Divine Wind

CultureCitizen said:


> Hiroshima bomb - August 6
> Call for surrender - August 6 ( 16 hours after bomb explosion ) .
> Nagasiaki bomb - August 9
> Hirohito capitulation announcement - August 14.
> 
> *If that was the case why didn't they drop another bomb in August 12*? ... logistics , probably.
> Even after the second bombing it took them 5 days to surrender. It is clear that 2.5 days were not nearly enough for the bad news to sink in... I stand by my position: pure sadism.


They didn't have one.

If you think it's logistics (either inability to transport/deliver or out of supply (it was the latter)), how could you possibly logically assert it was sadism?  Is it because you are a LW anti-American ass or simply an apologist for the Empire of Japan?


----------



## Divine Wind

CultureCitizen said:


> American hating? Just for saying one atomic bomb was enough? Really? There is no logic to the way you reason.


It was probably both your sadism comments against the USA.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hiroshima bomb - August 6
> Call for surrender - August 6 ( 16 hours after bomb explosion ) .
> Nagasiaki bomb - August 9
> Hirohito capitulation announcement - August 14.
> 
> *If that was the case why didn't they drop another bomb in August 12*? ... logistics , probably.
> Even after the second bombing it took them 5 days to surrender. It is clear that 2.5 days were not nearly enough for the bad news to sink in... I stand by my position: pure sadism.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't have one.
> 
> If you think it's logistics (either inability to transport/deliver or out of supply (it was the latter)), how could you possibly logically assert it was sadism?  Is it because you are a LW anti-American ass or simply an apologist for the Empire of Japan?
Click to expand...



Maybe you could quote one of these mythical posts apologizing for or denying any atrocities on this thread?


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Maybe you could quote one of these mythical posts apologizing for or denying any atrocities on this thread?


When you stop lying and start posting honestly, I'll be happy to do so.  For now, I'm tired of reposting shit you've denied only to see you cut and run.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you could quote one of these mythical posts apologizing for or denying any atrocities on this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> When you stop lying and start posting honestly,......
Click to expand...



Point out a lie. Just one.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you could quote one of these mythical posts apologizing for or denying any atrocities on this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> When you stop lying and start posting honestly,......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Point out a lie. Just one.
Click to expand...



Can't do it? As I thought.


----------



## Theowl32

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you could quote one of these mythical posts apologizing for or denying any atrocities on this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> When you stop lying and start posting honestly,......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Point out a lie. Just one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Can't do it? As I thought.
Click to expand...

Holy shit.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you could quote one of these mythical posts apologizing for or denying any atrocities on this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> When you stop lying and start posting honestly,......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Point out a lie. Just one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Can't do it? As I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holy shit.
Click to expand...






Still nothing? Yeah...


----------



## Divine Wind

Theowl32 said:


> Holy shit.


He does that.....a lot.  He'll act all tough and logical, then when confronted with facts will disappear for a day.  Upon reappearance, he'll feign ignorance of the posts refuting him.  A day or so later he'll start the game over again asking questions like "_Prove the quotes are bogus_" and "_Point out a lie. Just one._"

Oddly, like a child or a schoolyard bully, he'll claim victory when people tire of his bullshit.  I've found it best to just let him rant and walk away from his bullshit.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy shit.
> 
> 
> 
> He does that.....a lot.  He'll act all tough and logical, then when confronted with facts will disappear for a day.  ....
Click to expand...




Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.


Great!  Start with the 6+ posts with links and facts I've previously posted.  I'll wait.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Great!  Start with the 6+ posts with links and facts I've previously posted.  I'll wait.
Click to expand...




Pick one and quote it right here right now. Any facts that have been in dispute. Hurry up.


----------



## Theowl32

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Great!  Start with the 6+ posts with links and facts I've previously posted.  I'll wait.
Click to expand...

You ever hear of the myth of Sisyphus? 






That is kind of what you are engaging in with this guy. You keep pushing that rock up the hill, and then you do it all over again. 

That is what WE have been doing. Dude is weird.


----------



## Unkotare

Still waiting....


----------



## Divine Wind

Theowl32 said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Great!  Start with the 6+ posts with links and facts I've previously posted.  I'll wait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You ever hear of the myth of Sisyphus?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is kind of what you are engaging in with this guy. You keep pushing that rock up the hill, and then you do it all over again.
> 
> That is what WE have been doing. Dude is weird.
Click to expand...

Agreed.  As with most nutjobs or dishonest posters, I don't try to convince them of anything since they'll never admit error or fault.  My posts are geared to refute them and prove them wrong to _other_ readers of the thread.


----------



## Theowl32

Divine.Wind said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Great!  Start with the 6+ posts with links and facts I've previously posted.  I'll wait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You ever hear of the myth of Sisyphus?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is kind of what you are engaging in with this guy. You keep pushing that rock up the hill, and then you do it all over again.
> 
> That is what WE have been doing. Dude is weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agreed.  As with most nutjobs or dishonest posters, I don't try to convince them of anything since they'll never admit error or fault.  My posts are geared to refute them and prove them wrong to _other_ readers of the thread.
Click to expand...

I sort of feel sorry for him. I do. I was messing with him with vulgarity. Some people get my sense of humor, but I think I am starting to feel sorry for him.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> ... I don't try to convince them of anything ....




Because you are incapable of supporting a position, or understanding basic logic.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Great!  Start with the 6+ posts with links and facts I've previously posted.  I'll wait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick one and quote it right here right now. Any facts that have been in dispute. Hurry up.
Click to expand...



Still waiting...


----------



## CultureCitizen

Theowl32 said:


> I love how the two of you ignore the atrocities committed by those fucking stink zipper heads. Yeah, you are so fucking ignorant about history. Especially about the fucking japs.
> 
> I mean cannibalism? The stink sandapes in the middle east don't even do that. Oh, but a bunch of pathetic small japs?
> 
> Fucking japs.



That is the same line of thought followed by terrorists:
True , the army commited unforrgiven attrocities, but why in the world should you punish the civilian population ( which did none of that) for the attrocities made by the army? 

Your words convince me that people with the same mindset dropped on purpose both bombs, even when they were largely unnecesary.


----------



## Theowl32

CultureCitizen said:


> Theowl32 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love how the two of you ignore the atrocities committed by those fucking stink zipper heads. Yeah, you are so fucking ignorant about history. Especially about the fucking japs.
> 
> I mean cannibalism? The stink sandapes in the middle east don't even do that. Oh, but a bunch of pathetic small japs?
> 
> Fucking japs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is the same line of thought followed by terrorists:
> True , the army commited unforrgiven attrocities, but why in the world should you punish the civilian population ( which did none of that) for the attrocities made by the army?
> 
> Your words convince me that people with the same mindset dropped on purpose both bombs, even when they were largely unnecesary.
Click to expand...

God I hate liberals


----------



## CultureCitizen

Divine.Wind said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> American hating? Just for saying one atomic bomb was enough? Really? There is no logic to the way you reason.
> 
> 
> 
> It was probably both your sadism comments against the USA.
Click to expand...


No. None of my comments imply that any harm should be done to the US soldiers or civilian population. 
If anything my position is that after dropping the first bomb the US should have waited one week before dropping a second bomb. No harm there, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Divine Wind

CultureCitizen said:


> That is the same line of thought followed by terrorists:
> True , the army commited unforrgiven attrocities, but why in the world should you punish the civilian population ( which did none of that) for the attrocities made by the army?
> 
> Your words convince me that people with the same mindset dropped on purpose both bombs, even when they were largely unnecesary.


Scroll up.  This has all been covered multiple times.  Even today.

You are free to believe the only reason the US bombed Japan was "sadism", but  that only goes to show you have a very narrow view of the history of WWII.

If you want to discuss why the civilized world moved away from "total war", that's a good question, but it has obvious answers.

If you want to discuss Eisenhower's laments about using nukes, that's another good topic, but be sure to include the context of the Cold War with the Soviet Union and how letting the nuclear genie out of the bottle threatened annihilation of the entire human race.

The good news is we, as a species, survived our own self-destruction.  The bad news is there are actors in play today who won't hesitate to use a nuke on a city.   Odds are, it will be a former Soviet nuke.


----------



## Unkotare

Theowl32 said:


> .....
> God I hate liberals




You've posted that empty spam about a thousand times so far. Try commenting on the topic of the thread.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's find out. Confront me with facts, any facts in dispute. I'm waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> Great!  Start with the 6+ posts with links and facts I've previously posted.  I'll wait.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pick one and quote it right here right now. Any facts that have been in dispute. Hurry up.
Click to expand...



And.............................still nothing...


----------



## Divine Wind

CultureCitizen said:


> No. None of my comments imply that any harm should be done to the US soldiers or civilian population.
> If anything my position is that after dropping the first bomb the US should have waited one week before dropping a second bomb. No harm there, as far as I can tell.


How many Americans were dying every single day the war dragged on?  While you sit cozily at your computer pining about how we should have waited four extra days, do you have any idea how many lives that would have cost?  How many American lives would you be willing to sacrifice to avoid bombing a strategic enemy seaport and steel works? 

Try reading up on something more than just the anti-US propaganda you are regurgitating.  Let me help you get a start: Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## CultureCitizen

Divine.Wind said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. None of my comments imply that any harm should be done to the US soldiers or civilian population.
> If anything my position is that after dropping the first bomb the US should have waited one week before dropping a second bomb. No harm there, as far as I can tell.
> 
> 
> 
> How many Americans were dying every single day the war dragged on?  While you sit cozily at your computer pining about how we should have waited four extra days, do you have any idea how many lives that would have cost?  How many American lives would you be willing to sacrifice to avoid bombing a strategic enemy seaport and steel works?
> 
> Try reading up on something more than just the anti-US propaganda you are regurgitating.  Let me help you get a start: Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


The same number that died even after the second bomb was dropped , because it took ten days for japan to surrender. 
1945 wasn't the information age. News traveled slowly ... sometimes even by horseback.


----------



## Divine Wind

CultureCitizen said:


> The same number that died even after the second bomb was dropped , because it took ten days for japan to surrender.
> 1945 wasn't the information age. News traveled slowly ... sometimes even by horseback.


Hence an answer to your question on why we didn't drop a third bomb to end the carnage; we didn't have one.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. None of my comments imply that any harm should be done to the US soldiers or civilian population.
> If anything my position is that after dropping the first bomb the US should have waited one week before dropping a second bomb. No harm there, as far as I can tell.
> 
> 
> 
> How many Americans were dying every single day the war dragged on? ...
Click to expand...



In that case, why were overtures for surrender ignored in January of '45?


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. None of my comments imply that any harm should be done to the US soldiers or civilian population.
> If anything my position is that after dropping the first bomb the US should have waited one week before dropping a second bomb. No harm there, as far as I can tell.
> 
> 
> 
> How many Americans were dying every single day the war dragged on? ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, why were overtures for surrender ignored in January of '45?
Click to expand...



Well?


----------



## Divine Wind

See what I mean, Vern?   Just from today:



Unkotare said:


> He wouldn't know logic if it picked him up and dropped him on his face.





Unkotare said:


> Once again revealing your juvenile ignorance.





Unkotare said:


> Still nothing? Yeah...





Unkotare said:


> Can't do it? As I thought.





Unkotare said:


> Still waiting...





Unkotare said:


> I'm waiting.





Unkotare said:


> And.............................still nothing...





Unkotare said:


> Well?


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> See what I mean, Vern?   Just from today:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wouldn't know logic if it picked him up and dropped him on his face.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again revealing your juvenile ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing? Yeah...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't do it? As I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm waiting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And.............................still nothing...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



If you have a point to make, now would be a good time.


----------



## Divine Wind

Unkotare said:


> If you have a point to make, now would be a good time.


Same point as before:  You are a dishonest poster who runs from facts presented, then nags people over the same points over and over again until you can declare yourself victor when they leave.


----------



## Unkotare

Divine.Wind said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a point to make, now would be a good time.
> 
> 
> 
> Same point as before:  You are a dishonest poster who runs from facts presented........
Click to expand...



Test your theory. Present some facts and see if they are run from. To save time, try to present some facts that have been disputed anywhere in this thread.


----------



## Unkotare

Hello?


----------



## Unkotare

HelllloooooOOOOOooooo?


----------



## J&K

Yes. I can explaine more.

You did like Nazi Germany very much or nowadays Nazism like GB and Poland and Finland.

But I know. I like Racism.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"


Nimitz, MacArthur, Halsey would not be doing the dying on the beaches,  it would be infantry and marines. The brass could now start to  write their books.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nimitz, MacArthur, Halsey would not be doing the dying on the beaches,  it would be infantry and marines. The brass could now start to  write their books.
Click to expand...



Lamest attempt at avoiding historical FACT ever.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nimitz, MacArthur, Halsey would not be doing the dying on the beaches,  it would be infantry and marines. The brass could now start to  write their books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lamest attempt at avoiding historical FACT ever.
Click to expand...

Many American young men lived to have  a full life, and that's the historical fact.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nimitz, MacArthur, Halsey would not be doing the dying on the beaches,  it would be infantry and marines. The brass could now start to  write their books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lamest attempt at avoiding historical FACT ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many American young men lived to have  a full life, and that's the historical fact.
Click to expand...



Logical fallacy upon logical fallacy.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> MILITARY VIEWS About Dropping the Atomic Bomb
> 
> 
> "Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet stated in a public address given at the Washington Monument on October 5, 1945:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 329, Chapter 26) . . . [Nimitz also stated: "The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military standpoint, in the defeat of Japan. . . ."]"
> 
> 
> 
> "Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet, stated publicly in 1946:
> 
> 
> 
> The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before. (See p. 331, Chapter 26)"
> 
> "On September 20, 1945 the famous "hawk" who commanded the Twenty-First Bomber Command, Major General Curtis E. LeMay (as reported in _The New York Herald Tribune_) publicly:
> 
> said flatly at one press conference that the atomic bomb "had nothing to do with the end of the war." He said the war would have been over in two weeks without the use of the atomic bomb or the Russian entry into the war. (See p. 336, Chapter 27)"
> 
> 
> 
> "On the 40th Anniversary of the bombing former President Richard M. Nixon reported that:
> 
> [General Douglas] MacArthur once spoke to me very eloquently about it, pacing the floor of his apartment in the Waldorf. He thought it a tragedy that the Bomb was ever exploded. MacArthur believed that the same restrictions ought to apply to atomic weapons as to conventional weapons, that the military objective should always be limited damage to noncombatants. . . . MacArthur, you see, was a soldier. He believed in using force only against military targets, and that is why the nuclear thing turned him off. . . . (See p. 352, Chapter 28)
> 
> 
> 
> The day after Hiroshima was bombed MacArthur's pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary:
> 
> 
> General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster [the bomb]. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa. . . . (See p. 350, Chapter 28)"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nimitz, MacArthur, Halsey would not be doing the dying on the beaches,  it would be infantry and marines. The brass could now start to  write their books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Lamest attempt at avoiding historical FACT ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Many American young men lived to have  a full life, and that's the historical fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Logical fallacy upon logical fallacy.
Click to expand...

Wow, that must have really hurt, but you will recover.


----------



## Divine Wind

regent said:


> Wow, that must have really hurt, but you will recover.


He loves the attention even though he'll never refute your facts with his own. He'll either deny the facts, as you've just seen, or nag you with proving him wrong while simultaneously ignoring any facts you've presented.  It's very immature on his part.

FWIW

Operation Downfall - History Learning Site
_The main concern for the Americans was the potential for huge casualty rates. Nearly every senior officer involved in the planning did his own research regarding American casualties – this was based on the experience America had fighting the Japanese sincePearl Harbour.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff estimated that Olympic alone would cost 456,000 men, including 109,000 killed. Including Coronet, it was estimated that America would experience 1.2 million casualties, with 267,000 deaths.

Staff working for Chester Nimitz, calculated that the first 30 days of Olympic alone would cost 49,000 men.MacArthur’s staff concluded that America would suffer 125,000 casualties after 120 days, a figure that was later reduced to 105,000 casualties after his staff subtracted the men who when wounded could return to battle.

General Marshall, in conference with President Truman, estimated 31,000 in 30 days after landing in Kyushu. Admiral Leahy estimated that the invasion would cost 268,000 casualties. Personnel at the Navy Department estimated that the total losses to America would be between 1.7 and 4 million with 400,000 to 800,000 deaths. The same department estimated that there would be up to 10 million Japanese casualties. The ‘Los Angeles Times’ estimated that America would suffer up to 1 million casualties.

Regardless of which figures were used, it was an accepted fact that America would lose a very large number of men. This was one of the reasons why President Truman authorised the use of the atomic bomb in an effort to get Japan to surrender. On August 6th, ‘Little Boy’ was dropped on Hiroshima and on August 9th, ‘Fat Man’ was dropped on Nagasaki. On September 2nd, Japan surrendered and America and her allies were spared the task of invading Japan with the projected massive casualties this would entail._


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CultureCitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. None of my comments imply that any harm should be done to the US soldiers or civilian population.
> If anything my position is that after dropping the first bomb the US should have waited one week before dropping a second bomb. No harm there, as far as I can tell.
> 
> 
> 
> How many Americans were dying every single day the war dragged on? ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, why were overtures for surrender ignored in January of '45?
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> "In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the _Chicago Tribune_ and the _Washington Times-Herald_, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86_Journal_, pp. 508-512.)
> 
> This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor. Specifically, the terms of these peace overtures included:
> 
> 
> Complete surrender of all Japanese forces and arms, at home, on island possessions, and in occupied countries.
> Occupation of Japan and its possessions by Allied troops under American direction.
> Japanese relinquishment of all territory seized during the war, as well as Manchuria, Korea and Taiwan.
> Regulation of Japanese industry to halt production of any weapons and other tools of war.
> Release of all prisoners of war and internees.
> Surrender of designated war criminals."
> 
> Was Hiroshima Necessary?


.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Divine.Wind said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I do. That's why I have provided links, facts, and direct quotes from political and military leaders of the day. ..
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, a link to someone elses opinion is still an opinion, but you are free to believe whatever revisionist crap you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hiroshima: Quotes
> 
> 
> Ignored Japanese Peace Bids Plague U. S., West, with What Might Have Been (August 14, 1965)
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese were racist as well as fascist, they invaded Manchuria because they were the "superior' race . Just like Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia, and the similarities don't end there, either. Eisnatzastgroupen, Unit 731.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the bombs were dropped in protest against racism? You really think fdr - of all people - gave a moment's thought about the evils of racism?
Click to expand...

.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese were racist as well as fascist, they invaded Manchuria because they were the "superior' race . Just like Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia, and the similarities don't end there, either. Eisnatzastgroupen, Unit 731.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the bombs were dropped in protest against racism? You really think fdr - of all people - gave a moment's thought about the evils of racism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...

To use your type of argument I would say: so that's your argument "FDR was racist."


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese were racist as well as fascist, they invaded Manchuria because they were the "superior' race . Just like Hitler when he invaded Czechoslovakia, and the similarities don't end there, either. Eisnatzastgroupen, Unit 731.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the bombs were dropped in protest against racism? You really think fdr - of all people - gave a moment's thought about the evils of racism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To use your type of argument I would say: so that's your argument "FDR was racist."
Click to expand...



Are you denying that he was?


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## J&K

Racism aren't evil.

Nazi Germany are evil.

Nazi Germany only.

Dumb drop atomic bomb in Japan.


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## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> On the Sixty-Sixth Anniversary of the Bombing of Hiroshima - Gar Alperovitz


.


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