# 'Palestinian'



## abu afak

"Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda... 
As has been noted many times before, *prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis, 
the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews,* with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation. 
- David Basch 


"...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. *They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s. 
Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," *while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs." 
The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes. 
It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources. 
Far better to Invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," - 
a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..." 
- westerndefense.org 


"There is NO language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture. 
*There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. 
Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)*, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass. 
But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. 
No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough...."" 
- Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist 


So before the creation of the State of Israel, who were the Palestinians?
ANSWER:
Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST; 
the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE;
Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK; 
the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY; 
there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and.... the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC. 
*All these were JEWISH organizations. *
In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG" 
In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions. 
"Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine. 
*The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a Recent phenomenon. 
Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another Decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.*
- 'Palestinians' - The Peace FAQ
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## P F Tinmore

> They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.



Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa 1937, flying Palestinian flag.






You need to get off that propaganda.


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## abu afak

Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*


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## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*



Foreigners!

Is there a point here?


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## Jos




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## Jos

Jos said:


>



The Red Ensign is used for Merchant ships, Not on land. Maybe Palestine had a Merchent Navy in 1927?
Red Ensign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## abu afak

http://reviews.ebay.com/Palestine-C...or-eBay-collectors_W0QQugidZ10000000000770353

*What are "Palestine coins"?*

*The only world coins minted for general circulation that bear the name 'Palestine' were issued from 1927 to 1947 under the British Mandate to govern Palestine, 
which was granted to Great Britain by the League of Nations in 1923.*

  Under the auspices of the Palestine Currency Board, 59 different coins were minted for circulation in Palestine during the period from 1927 through 1946. 
[......]
*Each coin is tri-lingual, bearing legends in three languages: English, Arabic, and Hebrew.*
[......]
What dates and denominations are available to collect?

The denominations of the 59 Palestine coins issued for circulation from 1927 to 1946 range from 1 Mil to 100 Mils.  
Each Mil represents 1/1000th of a Palestine Pound, equivalent to one British Pound Sterling, thus the 100 Mils coins was equivalent in value to 1/10 of a Pound, or to a British Florin or Two Shillings coin. 
[.....]

*What's the history of the period when these coins were issued?*

Here's a very, very brief history:*The empire of the Ottoman Turks ruled the area of historic Palestine for 400 years, until their military defeat by the British in 1917.

  In turn, the British occupation, and subsequent Mandate - which led to the issuance of these coins - occurred from 1917 to 1947.*

  This period ended with the United Nations vote to partition Palestine in 1947, the formal departure of the British in 1948, and the Arab-Israeli War of 1948-49,  
variously known as the War of Independence (or Liberation) or 'The Catastrophe' ('al Nakba' in transliterated Arabic).​


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## abu afak

File:Half Shekel.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

500 Years before the Birth of Big Mo.






JUDAEA, First Jewish War. *66-70 CE.* AR Shekel (22mm, 13.19 g, 12h). Dated year 3 (68/9 CE). 
*"Shekel of Israel,"* Omer cup with pearled rim; date above / *"Jerusalem the Holy,"* (That's ancient Hebrew) sprig of three pomegranates. 
Meshorer 202; Hendin 662.
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## Epsilon Delta

abu afak said:


> "Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967
> 
> "There is NO language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
> There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
> Palestinians are Arabs, *indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)*, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
> Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
> But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness.
> No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""
> - Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist



Yeah, yeah "Palestinians don't exist" argument. It's irrelevant when the name "Palestinian" began to be used. "Israelis" didn't exist either before 1948 - how does that make them any less "real"? The assertion that a "Palestinian is indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)" is retarded, and wouldn't hold up anywhere else - What's the difference between an American and a Canadian? Mexico and Central America were all one spanish viceroyalty in colonial times, then balkanizing into different states, there was no such thing as a Salvadoran or a Honduran, but that was 190 years ago so now they're "real" - or maybe you think they're not real, so I guess it'd be legitimate to take over one of them and tell them all to move over, since they speak the same language and have the same "ethnic makeup." 

And I'm assuming Austrians are "just Germans" right? Hitler probably should have had his Anschluss, then, eh? I mean, really, what is the difference between a German and an Austrian? Taking Poland was probably ok too, I mean, the Slavs have a _huge_ percentage of the land of Europe, compared to Germany =/, and Poland didn't even exist for hundreds of years until 1919.

No, obviously none of this would be ok, it's no different with the Palestinians. The name Palestinian _may _be new, but it nevertheless denotes Arab inhabitants of the region in question, in which every historical single census ever taken were a ridiculously vast majority of the population. That a properly "Palestinian" identity is new doesn't mean anything, and it's not up to _you_ to say to say whose identities are legitimate or not. The fact that 13 million people identify themselves as "Palestinian" _is_ what gives the identity legitimacy - who are _iyou_ to claim what culture is "distinct enough" or not? It's the same thing as when people try to "delegtimize" Jews by claiming most are converts, or they sneak into Israel pretending to be Jews or whatever. It's irrelevant whether this is true or not - the fact that another 13 million people consider themselves Jews make the identity legitimate regardless and if somebody claims to be a Jew, who the fuck am I to say otherwise? If someone claims to be a Palestinian, who the fuck am I to say otherwise?

In any case, identity is not a static thing and it's not mutually exclusive. A Palestinian is usually also an Arab, just like an Israeli is usually also a Jew, but he's not "just a Jew." Just because there's a larger group of people who think of themselves as Arab doesn't make "Palestinian" any less real - by the same logic, most people who consider themselves Jews don't even live in Israel - so what? This doesn't make an Israel identity any less "legitimate" or compromised. But of course that's "us," not "them" so the standards don't apply.


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## alexa

I think the name Palestinian is a red herring. It is queried to confuse.  My own country is quietly changing it's name back to Alba.  The name is not important.  Having your feet on the ground is. Recent genetic research suggests that Palestinian arabs are probably the closest descendants of the original Jews...so I think if anyone has the right to claim historic Palestine, it is them.  Not only are they the closest descendants of the original Jews, they have stayed there - and many may be descended from people prior to even that. 

So the problem is on the one hand we have a people who have lived there for over 3000 years and so believe it is their land and on the other hand we have a people who believe they used to live there 3000 years ago and because of this believe they have the right to throw the people who always have lived there off their land.

That's the argument.  I understand the area has quite a history of being called Palestine.  I have also heard the people were not very nationalistic but that certainly does not mean they do not feel that where they have their roots, where they have lived for thousands of years, where there ancestors have worked, played, lived and died is not their home whatever they choose to call it and for the meantime that is Palestine.


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## Douger

None of this follows the script.
Go get the script and focus closely on The Chosen going back Home to IsNtReal.
You're going to make your masters mad with this rhetoric.


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## docmauser1

alexa said:


> _Recent genetic research suggests that Palestinian arabs are probably the closest descendants of the original Jews..._


Monsanto research suggested DDT was harmless too, of course.


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## peach174

Until Palestinians acknowledge the right to live for Israeli's nothing is going to be solved.


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## abu afak

Epsilon Delta said:


> Yeah, yeah "Palestinians don't exist" argument. It's irrelevant when the name "Palestinian" began to be used. "Israelis" didn't exist either before 1948 - how does that make them any less "real"?
> The assertion that a "Palestinian is indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)" is retarded, and wouldn't hold up anywhere else -


Zionism was  100 Year old Nationalist revival Movement of the Jews. Reviving one of 3200 years and existed for 1400 years,
'Palestinianism' was NOT. 
Not only did they Not accept the partition creating 'Palestine' in 1948, but for 20 years subsequent the land was Annexed by Jordan and there was NO 'Palestine' nor even really 'palestinians', 
as Arabs never really bought that crap until about the time they lost the WB to Israel in the 1967 War. Otherwise there would still be passport-carrying Jordanians.
Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian' (whatever that is) as it's Queen.
In fact, in 'Black September' (1970), Arafat & co. tried to Make Jordan the Palestinian state it is/was by overthrowing King Hussein. 
But they lost-- and it was back to 'Israel' and wanting the West Bank which was renounced in the 1964 PLO Charter.




> What's the difference between an American and a Canadian? Mexico and Central America were all one spanish viceroyalty in colonial times, ..


Very Little between American and Canadian.. perhaps except Shared 300+ years histories of each.
Much bigger between Americans and Mexicans who are a different ethnicity/language/culture (which is why you Didn't make THAT comparison) and part of whose Land we Americans now sit.
Jews are Just Jews, while Arabs have 22 states, many arbitrarily bordered by the Ottoman Break up.
*'Iraqis', 'Jordanians', 'Palestinians' were conqueror constructs, NOT peoples.*
Re-read what you quoted.
Of course people only whine about one tiny part of this giant allocation in which Arabs were the big winners.



> No, obviously none of this would be ok, it's no different with the Palestinians. The name Palestinian [Imay [/I]be new, but it nevertheless denotes Arab inhabitants of the region in question, in which every historical single census ever taken were a ridiculously vast majority of the population.


And they, those local-and-Transient-left-over-non-Jordan-arabs got/were offered the vast majority of the Land.
The Jews only got 13% of British Mandate 'Palestine'. 
Jordan (Given to a Hashemite SAUDI Prince as spoils) was/is 77%; 'Palestine 10%. Meaning Arabs/Palestinians got 87% of the Mandate.
And Half of the Jews 13% was the thought-useless Negev Desert. (and 2/3 including the Half of Israel that is the Negev Desert was Ottoman/British STATE LAND, owned by NO Arab)



> That a properly "Palestinian" identity is new doesn't mean anything, and it's not up to [Iyou[/I] to say to say whose identities are legitimate or not.
> The fact that 13 million people identify themselves as "Palestinian" _is_ what gives the identity legitimacy -


It does but only now. But let's not kid ourselves about "some great country called Palestine being overrun by the Jews".
What makes a 'people' is Culture, Language, Ethnicity/Race, shared History, etc and they know it.
Jews know they are a people. Tibetans, Mongols, Turks, Kurds... and Arabs. (Nicht Palestinians, until lately)



> In any case, identity is not a static thing and it's not mutually exclusive. A Palestinian is usually also an Arab, just like an Israeli is usually also a Jew, but he's not "just a Jew."
> Just because there's a larger group of people who think of themselves as Arab doesn't make "Palestinian" any less real - by the same logic, most people who consider themselves Jews don't even live in Israel - so what?
> This doesn't make an Israel identity any less "legitimate" or compromised. But of course that's "us," not "them" so the standards don't apply.


Continuing...
Jews only have and have had only/"Just" One national movement, Zionism/Israel for 3200 years.
Arabs are indeed a People. Thus Pan-Arabism.
'Palestinian' like 'Jordanian' (or 'Iraqi') Not so historically. 
And Arabs under various new, made-up, misgrouped (ie 'Iraq'), and old names got 99% of the Ottoman Break up.

The problem, as you unwitting quoted above, was they wanted 100%.
But Arabs overall did very well in the Break-up. Perhaps ruling 110% of their 'original Range'.
The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.
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## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah "Palestinians don't exist" argument. It's irrelevant when the name "Palestinian" began to be used. "Israelis" didn't exist either before 1948 - how does that make them any less "real"? The assertion that a "Palestinian is indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)" is retarded, and wouldn't hold up anywhere else -
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism was  100 Year old Nationalist revival Movement of the Jews. Reviving one of 3200 years and existed for 1400 years,
> 'Palestinianism' was NOT.
> Not only did they Not accept the partition creating 'Palestine' in 1948, but for 20 years subsequent the land was Annexed by Jordan and there was NO 'Palestine' nor even really 'palestinians', as Arabs never really bought that crap until app they lost the WB to Israel in the 1967 War. Otherwise there would still be Jordainians.
> Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian' (whatever that is)
> In fact, in 'Black September' (1970), Arafat and co tried to Make Jordan the Palestinian state it is/as by overthrowing King Hussein. But they lost-- and it was back to 'Israel' and wanting the West Bank which was renounced in the 1964 PLO Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference between an American and a Canadian? Mexico and Central America were all one spanish viceroyalty in colonial times, ..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Little between American and Canadian.. perhaps except Shared 300+ years histories of each.
> Much bigger between Americans and Mexicans who are a different Race and part of whose Land Americans now sit.
> Jews are Just Jews, while Arabs have 22 states, many arbitrarily bordered by the Ottoman Break up.
> 'Iraqis', 'Jordanians', 'Palestinians' were conqueror constructs, NOT peoples.
> 
> 
> And they got/were offered the vast majority of the Land.
> The Jews only got 13% of British Mandate 'Palestine'.
> Jordan (Given to a Hashemite SAUDI Prince as spoils) was/is 77%,'Palestine 10%. Meaning Arabs/Palestinians got 87% of the Mandate.
> And half of the Jews 13% was the Negev Desert. (and 2/3 including the Half of Israel that is the Negev Desert was Ottoman/British STATE LAND, owned by NO Arab)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That a properly "Palestinian" identity is new doesn't mean anything, and it's not up to [Iyou[/I] to say to say whose identities are legitimate or not. The fact that 13 million people identify themselves as "Palestinian" _is_ what gives the identity legitimacy -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does but only now. But let's not kid ourselves about "some great country called Palestine being overrun by the Jews".
> What makes a 'people' is culture, Language, Race, shared History, etc and they know it.
> Jews know they are a people. Tibetans, Mongols, Turks, Kurds... and Arabs. (Nicht Palestinians)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, identity is not a static thing and it's not mutually exclusive. A Palestinian is usually also an Arab, just like an Israeli is usually also a Jew, but he's not "just a Jew." Just because there's a larger group of people who think of themselves as Arab doesn't make "Palestinian" any less real - by the same logic, most people who consider themselves Jews don't even live in Israel - so what? This doesn't make an Israel identity any less "legitimate" or compromised. But of course that's "us," not "them" so the standards don't apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Continuing...
> Arabs are indeed a People. Thus Pan-Arabism.
> 'Palestinian' like 'Jordanian' were Not.
> And Arabs under various new, made-up, misgrouped (ie 'Iraq'), and old names got 99% of the Ottoman Break up.
> 
> The problem,as you unwitting quoted above was they wanted 100%.
> But Arabs overall did very well in the Break-up. Perhaps ruling 110% of their original 'Range'.
> The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
> But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.
> -
> -
Click to expand...




> (and was Ottoman/British STATEE LAND, owned by NO Arab)



Britain administered Palestine it did not take possession.



> The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## abu afak

Tinhead.
This is how it's done.
You don't have to 'quote' my whole comprehensive post to add your Dumb 8 words.
One assumes you are responding to the post immediately above.
(altho I could quote you here, but only because of page change/continuity)

If unlikely, someone should intervene in between then you can edit in the quote.
Quoting a Long Muliquote reply you are Not going to do the same with is a giant waste of space and makes the string needlessly long and UNREADABLE.
Got it Tinhead?

Many boards wisely only quote the post of one/last poster--preventing the 6 or 8 quote-within-quote-within-quote disasters here.
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## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa 1937, flying Palestinian flag._


Then Jordan is "palestine" for all intents and purposes, a palistani vaterland to drum and trumpet a return to, that is, because the flag is the jordanian al Urdun, adopted in 1928, while the palistanian das plagiat rag flag originates in 1994.


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## Epsilon Delta

You seem to have entirely missed the point. =/ But I'll go through it again anyway.



abu afak said:


> Zionism was  100 Year old Nationalist revival Movement of the Jews. Reviving one of 3200 years and existed for 1400 years,
> 'Palestinianism' was NOT.
> Not only did they Not accept the partition creating 'Palestine' in 1948, but for 20 years subsequent the land was Annexed by Jordan and there was NO 'Palestine' nor even really 'palestinians',
> as Arabs never really bought that crap until about the time they lost the WB to Israel in the 1967 War. Otherwise there would still be passport-carrying Jordanians.
> Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian' (whatever that is) as it's Queen.
> In fact, in 'Black September' (1970), Arafat & co. tried to Make Jordan the Palestinian state it is/was by overthrowing King Hussein.
> But they lost-- and it was back to 'Israel' and wanting the West Bank which was renounced in the 1964 PLO Charter.
> Very Little between American and Canadian.. perhaps except Shared 300+ years histories of each.



Again, the main point of this is LAND. Palestinians are linguistically and culturally "Arab" peoples, the key point of their identity is the fact that they or their ancestors lived in the region of historic Palestine. All that you can claim is that they're "just Arabs," which is false and, frankly, stupid - a Yemeni is an Arab too, so is a Moroccan, yet they're not the _same_, and they live thousands of miles from each other. Again, someone from Canada might have the exact same language, exact same skin color, exact same white anglo-protestant ethno-religious background as someone from the US, it doesn't give anybody the right to come to Canada and cleanse it because "they're the same as Americas [according to me]." What separates a Canadian from an American is the fact that one LIVES in the LAND of Canada and another LIVES in the LAND of America, hence they subscribe to different national identities and are not the same - a Canadian does not consider himself an American, just like Palestinians don't consider themselves Iraqis. Even WITHIN countries the culture varies - New York has a different "culture" from Texas, even if they both share American culture. 

And just because America became a country 200 years ago but most Arab countries became countries 70 years ago doesn't make a difference, unless you're willing to sit down now and explain to everyone here at what arbitrary point in time (in years) does an identity become "legitimate" enough for you - is it 20 years? 40 years? 200 years? 2000 years? And WHY?

That half of Jordan identifies itself as Palestinian is, again, irrelevant. Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right? Or what, is it because it's not ruled by Jews that it's not appropriate? Neither is Jordan, so I guess it's not appropriate either. That is, if we're being honest and holding everyone to the same standard.  



> Much bigger between Americans and Mexicans who are a different ethnicity/language/culture (which is why you Didn't make THAT comparison) and part of whose Land we Americans now sit.



Don't see the relevance. Explain.



> Jews are Just Jews, while Arabs have 22 states, many arbitrarily bordered by the Ottoman Break up.
> *'Iraqis', 'Jordanians', 'Palestinians' were conqueror constructs, NOT peoples.* Of course people only whine about one tiny part of this giant allocation in which Arabs were the big winners.



Nearly every country in the world today, including most of the Americas, Africa, and Oceania are based on conqueror constructs thanks to a history of imperialism and colonialism. There is absolutely no "ethnic" differences between New Zealanders and Australians and Britons and Canadians, yet they're not all the same [again] or any less legitimate. In reality, all borders are illegitimate arbitrary creations that don't follow any real logic, but that is the way the world is ordered and hence the reality we have to deal with. I don't know if you have ever seen a map of the US, but there's a suspiciously long straight line running from the great lakes to the pacific that surely respects no ethnic, linguistic, or cultural divisions and resulted from the US bargaining with Britain, and is the only reason people in norther Minnesota and N Dakota today aren't Canadian. That's the way it is and it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. The fact is that TODAY Iraqis, Jordanians, and Palestinians are people, specifically Arab people who live in the land spaces that today are called those names, no different from any other country.  



> And they, those local-and-Transient-left-over-non-Jordan-arabs got/were offered the vast majority of the Land.
> The Jews only got 13% of British Mandate 'Palestine'.
> Jordan (Given to a Hashemite SAUDI Prince as spoils) was/is 77%; 'Palestine 10%. Meaning Arabs/Palestinians got 87% of the Mandate.
> And Half of the Jews 13% was the thought-useless Negev Desert. (and 2/3 including the Half of Israel that is the Negev Desert was Ottoman/British STATE LAND, owned by NO Arab)



This is exactly what I'm talking about. The British Mandate of Palestine itself was entirely arbitrarily constructed in the 1920s by a caretaker colonial administration. During Ottoman times what is now Jordan was entirely a different province and what is now Israel/OPTs were separated into three or four Ottoman Seljuks, all of which had a huge majority of Arabs and only a tiny percentage of Jews. And that's what the point is - whether _they _were _there_, they LIVED there, not in Algeria or in Kuwait, but THERE. That's why they're not "just Arabs." That's why Israelis are not "just Jews" anymore, because they live THERE. 

That's why it's irrelevant how you frame it, what it comes down to is advocating ethnic cleansing: you want to claim that there is no such thing as palestinians so that you can legitimize your belief that Israel is justified in kicking every Palestinian out of where they've always lived and their ancestors lived because they're "just Arabs"  and so they can go live in any other Arab place. Until you go ahead and explain that this would be legitimate for any other country - that anybody can walk into Austria because theyre "just Germans" or that anybody can take over Singapore because they're "just Chinese" we know that you're just fulfilling the role of a propagandist for one side's violence.   



> It does but only now. But let's not kid ourselves about "some great country called Palestine being overrun by the Jews".
> What makes a 'people' is Culture, Language, Ethnicity/Race, shared History, etc and they know it.
> Jews know they are a people.



No, actually they're not, by YOUR own arbitrary standards they would not qualify as a people for most of the past 2000 years. This is just sad. By your own arbitrary definition of what makes a "people", not mine (I don't have one, I'm so naive that I assume that when millions of people define themselves as something, I should be inclined to believe them).  

Jews did not have the same language until the 1900s. Hebrew was a dead language only used for liturgical purposes, just like Latin, for over 1500 years. The vast majority of Jews did not speak Hebrew. Jews are not all of the same race or ethnicity - there's Slavic Jews, Western European Jews, Black Ethiopian Jews, Arab Jews. They did not have a shared history - there was a hugely spread out diaspora living all over the world with their own individual histories - and there still are to a degree. That's why all your "parameters" are useless. The only relevant thing is that Jews KNOW they are a people. Hence, they are a people - like Palestinians feel that they are a people. Whether they speak different languages, have different histories, or are of different races is entirely irrelevant. 



> And Arabs under various new, made-up, misgrouped (ie 'Iraq'), and old names got 99% of the Ottoman Break up.The problem, as you unwitting quoted above, was they wanted 100%.
> But Arabs overall did very well in the Break-up. Perhaps ruling 110% of their 'original Range'.



"Arabs" got countries where they lived under Ottoman rule. Turks got Turkey, where they lived. The Kurds did get screwed over, but at least they're still where they lived, not getting bulldozed out of their land anymore. Again, what happened elsewhere is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

What is relevant is that the Arabs of historic Palestine, today known as Palestinians, wanted 100% because they basically were 100% until mass immigration of Jews began in the 1920s; their population began doubling every 10 years, it began to be overrun by Jews basically. Even in 48, Jews were only a third of the population, and they also wanted 100%. 

I think most people, Israelis and Jews, know they will not have 100%. But those that do on either side, regardless of all the false justifications they can give, whether you with your "palestinians aren't real" or "palestinians don't deserve to live there" or people on the other side with their "Jews aren't real" or "Jews stole all the land so they must be driven out" - it's pathetic. They can see very clearly the other sides terrible propositions, but cannot come to terms with the fact that they're advocating the same exact thing. It's called ethnic cleansing. Both sides propose it, both are wrong. Everything else is just a veil to justify it - there is no justification for it, so stop trying.   



> The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
> But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.



Sure that Kurds are a people. I'm not going to deny that. If Kurds want a state, they should have one, Britain should've carved a Kurdish state. If they wanted to separate from Iraq/Turkey/Syria/Iran, I'd be all for it, and if they were oppressed (as they have been for ages by all of those regimes) I'll be the first to condemn it. This thread isn't about Kurds though. Feel free to make one and I'll go right to it.


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## P F Tinmore

Epsilon Delta.

Well said.


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## mudwhistle

Isn't Palestine derived from Philistine?


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## abu afak

Epsilon Delta said:
			
		

> You seem to have entirely missed the point. =/ But I'll go through it again anyway.


I not only didn't miss the point I refuted you Thoroughly.
Thus below salvage attempt.. which doesn't answer my posts directly and deflects/mischaracterizes their cogent portions



			
				E-D said:
			
		

> Again, the main point of this is LAND. Palestinians are linguistically and culturally "Arab" peoples,


Good.
now you have been TAUGHT what a 'people' is. But you unwittingly impeached yourself.



			
				E-D said:
			
		

> the key point of their identity is the fact that they or their ancestors lived in the region of historic Palestine. All that you can claim is that they're "just Arabs," which is false and, frankly, stupid - a Yemeni is an Arab too, so is a Moroccan, yet they're not the same, and they live thousands of miles from each other...


Of course I compared their arbitrariness with Jordanians and other closer groups, Not Moroccans. You, of course CANNOT handle/quote that distinction/non-distinction

Further


i.beletesri said:


> *Palestine inhabited by a Mixed population*
> 
> The "Chauvinist Arab version of history," then--so important to the current claim of "Palestinian" rights to "Arab Palestine," which Arab Palestinians *PURPORTEDLY inhabited for "Thousands of years*" --omits several relevant, situation-altering facts.
> 
> History did not begin with the Arab conquest in the seventh century.
> The people whose nation was destroyed by the Romans were the Jews.
> 
> *There were no Arab Palestinians then* -- not until 700 years later would an Arab rule prevail, and then _Briefly_. And not by people known as "Palestinians." The short Arab rule would be reigning over Christians and Jews, who had been there to languish under various other foreign conquerors, -- Roman, Byzantine, Persian, to name just three in the centuries between the Roman and Arab conquests. The peoples who conquered under the banner of the invading Arabians from the desert were often hired mercenaries who remained on the land as soldiers -- not Arabians, but others who were enticed by the promise of the booty of conquest.
> 
> From the time the Arabians, along with their non-Arabian recruits, entered Palestine and Syria, they found and themselves added to what was "_ethnologically a chaos of all the possible human combinations to which, when Palestine became a land of pilgrimage, a new admixture was added."1_  Among the peoples who have been counted as "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" are Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, and Tartars. John of Wurzburg lists for the middle era of the kingdom, Latins, Germans, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, Armenians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians,Egyptians, Copts, Maronites and natives from the Nile Delta. The list might be much extended, for it was the period of the great self-willed city-states in Europe, and Amalfi, Pisans, Genoese, Venetians, and Marseillais, who had quarters in all  the bigger cities, owned villages, and had trading rights, would, in all probability, have submitted to any of the above designations, only under pressure. Besides all these, Norsemen, Danes, Frisians, Tartars, Jews, Arabs, Russians, Nubians, and Samaritans, can be safely added to the greatest human agglomeration drawn together in one small area of the globe."2​*Greeks fled the Muslim rule in Greece, and landed in Palestine.
> By the mid-17 century, the Greeks lived everywhere in the Holy Land--constituting about 20% of the population-and their authority dominated the villages.3 *Between 1750 and 1766 Jaffa had been rebuilt, and had some 500 houses. Turks, Arabs, Greeks and Armenians and a solitary Latin monk lived there, to attend to the wants of the thousands of pilgrims who had to be temporarily housed in the port before proceeding to Jerusalem.4​*"In some cases villages [in Palestine] are populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire within the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Druzes, Circassians and Egyptians," one historian has reported. 5 *
> 
> Another source, the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1911 edition (before the "more chauvinist Arab history" began to prevail with the encouragement of the British), finds the *"population" of Palestine composed of so "widely differing" a group of "inhabitants" -- whose "ethnological affinities" create "early in the 20th century a list of no less than 50 languages"* (see below)  -- *that "it is therefore no easy task to write concisely ... on the ethnology of Palestine."*
> In addition to the "Assyrian, Persian and Roman" elements of ancient times, "the short-lived Egyptian government introduced into the population an element from that country which still persists in the villages." . . . There are very Large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy . . . Turkoman settlements ... a number of Persians and a fairly large Afghan colony . . . Motawila ... long settled immigrants from Persia ... tribes of Kurds ... German "Templar" colonies ... a Bosnian colony ... and the Circassian settlements placed in certain centres ... by the Turkish government in order to keep a restraint on the Bedouin ... a large Algerian element in the population ... still maintain(s) [while] the Sudanese have been reduced in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century.​In the late 18th century, 3,000 Albanians recruited by Russians were settled in Acre.
> The Encyclopaedia Britannica finds "most interesting all the non-Arab communities in the country . . . the Samaritan sect in Nablus (Shechem); a gradually disappearing body" once "settled by the Assyrians to occupy the land left waste by the captivity of the Kingdom of Israel."6
> 
> *The Disparate peoples recently assumed and purported to be "settled Arab indigenes, for a thousand years" were in fact a "Heterogeneous" community 7 With NO "Palestinian" identity, and according to an official British historical analysis in 1920, NO Arab identity either:
> "The people west of the Jordan are Not Arabs, but Only Arabic-speaking. The bulk of the population are fellahin.... In the Gaza district they are mostly of Egyptian origin; elsewhere they are of the most mixed race." 8*
> 
> Palestine inhabited by a mixed population


One could in fact argue Gazans are closer to Egyptians than fellow WB 'palestinians'. 




			
				E-D said:
			
		

> Again, someone from Canada might have the exact same language, exact same skin color, exact same white anglo-protestant ethno-religious background as someone from the US, it doesn't give anybody the right to come to Canada and cleanse it because "they're the same as Americas [according to me]."


What? :^)
Get a grip. We're not talking about "cleansing", we're talking about what makes a people.
You want to try the 'Cleansing' slander-- try another string.
Hint: it won't work either.




			
				E-D said:
			
		

> What separates a Canadian from an American is the fact that one LIVES in the LAND of Canada and another LIVES in the LAND of America, hence they subscribe to different national identities and are not the same - a Canadian does not consider himself an American, just like Palestinians don't consider themselves Iraqis. Even WITHIN countries the culture varies - New York has a different "culture" from Texas, even if they both share American culture.


The main thing that separates American from Canadian, AS I SAID, is 300+ years of different history AS peoples.
NO such difference between 'Jordanians' and 'palestinians'. No Cultural or lingual difference either.
And one notes you don't know/haven't absorbed Both Jordan (77% of the Mandate, and Iraq) were both given To Saudi/Hashemite Princes as spoils. (STOLEN) The former.. er.. 'Palestinian' land. 
Where's your indignence?
Having to bring in Moroccans just shows the weakness of your position.




			
				E-D said:
			
		

> And just because America became a country 200 years ago but most Arab countries became countries 70 years ago doesn't make a difference, unless you're willing to sit down now and explain to everyone here at what arbitrary point in time (in years) does an identity become "legitimate" enough for you - is it 20 years? 40 years? 200 years? 2000 years? And WHY?


This would be true (ooops) if there was ONE Arabia instead of many bogus countries, but is NOT true of the fake mini-constructs resulting from Ottoman break up.
Iraqis, Jordanians, Palestinians have no shared sense of Individualness/History/Raison. Americans did at the time of the Constitution.
The defeat of the Ottomans just left a lot of Sheikdoms/Emirates/Tribes and a few kingdoms. Only the latter close to a 'people' or Nation. UNLIKE Zionists.



			
				E-D said:
			
		

> That half of Jordan identifies itself as Palestinian is, again, irrelevant. Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right? Or what, is it because it's not ruled by Jews that it's not appropriate? Neither is Jordan, so I guess it's not appropriate either. That is, if we're being honest and holding everyone to the same standard.


I said 70% NOT half. Dishonest quote.
And a laughable point/NOT analogous since Jews are claiming the USA as a Second state.



			
				E-D said:
			
		

> This is exactly what I'm talking about. The British Mandate of Palestine itself was entirely arbitrarily constructed in the 1920s by a caretaker colonial administration.


Quite right. That's because there was NO existing Nationalist Peoples ready form a country. Thus a Mandate period was needed for the area's Arabs to be divided. UNLIKE the Zionists.



			
				E-D said:
			
		

> During Ottoman times what is now Jordan was entirely a different province and what is now Israel/OPTs were separated into three or four Ottoman Seljuks, all of which had a huge majority of Arabs and only a tiny percentage of Jews..


That's "Sanjaks" NOT "Seljuks"
Seljuks were a 1000 year old Islamic (Turkish) Dynasty.
LOL.

and as explained in my last. Jews only got a Tiny percent of the land. (13% of Mandate of which half was desert/ and 1% of Ottomania)
And unlike their neighbors Jordan and [rejected] palestine, Jews were expected (and do) share their land even though a majority in it as of of 1947. (thus it's borders)
-
-


----------



## mudwhistle

abu afak said:


> Tinhead.
> This is how it's done.
> You don't have to 'quote' my whole comprehensive post to add your Dumb 8 words.
> One assumes you are responding to the post immediately above.
> (altho I could quote you here, but only because of page change/continuity)
> 
> If unlikely, someone should intervene in between then you can edit in the quote.
> Quoting a Long Muliquote reply you are Not going to do the same with is a giant waste of space and makes the string needlessly long and UNREADABLE.
> Got it Tinhead?
> 
> Many boards wisely only quote the post of one/last poster--preventing the 6 or 8 quote-within-quote-within-quote disasters here.
> -
> -



If the thread is hot most of the time that doesn't work because in the time it takes to post your own comment somebody else has already commented before you. Doing what you want would be confusing.


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> i.beletesri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine inhabited by a Mixed population
> 
> The "Chauvinist Arab version of history," then--so important to the current claim of "Palestinian" rights to "Arab Palestine," which Arab Palestinians PURPORTEDLY inhabited for "Thousands of years" --omits several relevant, situation-altering facts.
> 
> History did not begin with the Arab conquest in the seventh century.
> The people whose nation was destroyed by the Romans were the Jews.
> 
> There were no Arab Palestinians then -- not until 700 years later would an Arab rule prevail, and then Briefly. And not by people known as "Palestinians." The short Arab rule would be reigning over Christians and Jews, who had been there to languish under various other foreign conquerors, -- Roman, Byzantine, Persian, to name just three in the centuries between the Roman and Arab conquests. The peoples who conquered under the banner of the invading Arabians from the desert were often hired mercenaries who remained on the land as soldiers -- not Arabians, but others who were enticed by the promise of the booty of conquest.
> 
> From the time the Arabians, along with their non-Arabian recruits, entered Palestine and Syria, they found and themselves added to what was "ethnologically a chaos of all the possible human combinations to which, when Palestine became a land of pilgrimage, a new admixture was added."1 Among the peoples who have been counted as "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" are Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, and Tartars.
> John of Wurzburg lists for the middle era of the kingdom, Latins, Germans, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, Armenians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians,Egyptians, Copts, Maronites and natives from the Nile Delta. The list might be much extended, for it was the period of the great self-willed city-states in Europe, and Amalfi, Pisans, Genoese, Venetians, and Marseillais, who had quarters in all the bigger cities, owned villages, and had trading rights, would, in all probability, have submitted to any of the above designations, only under pressure. Besides all these, Norsemen, Danes, Frisians, Tartars, Jews, Arabs, Russians, Nubians, and Samaritans, can be safely added to the greatest human agglomeration drawn together in one small area of the globe."2
> Greeks fled the Muslim rule in Greece, and landed in Palestine.
> By the mid-17 century, the Greeks lived everywhere in the Holy Land--constituting about 20% of the population-and their authority dominated the villages.3
> Between 1750 and 1766 Jaffa had been rebuilt, and had some 500 houses. Turks, Arabs, Greeks and Armenians and a solitary Latin monk lived there, to attend to the wants of the thousands of pilgrims who had to be temporarily housed in the port before proceeding to Jerusalem.4
> "In some cases villages [in Palestine] are populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire within the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Druzes, Circassians and Egyptians," one historian has reported. 5
> 
> Another source, the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1911 edition (before the "more chauvinist Arab history" began to prevail with the encouragement of the British), finds the "population" of Palestine composed of so "widely differing" a group of "inhabitants" -- whose "ethnological affinities" create "early in the 20th century a list of no less than 50 languages" (see below) -- that "it is therefore no easy task to write concisely ... on the ethnology of Palestine."
> In addition to the "Assyrian, Persian and Roman" elements of ancient times, "the short-lived Egyptian government introduced into the population an element from that country which still persists in the villages."
> . . . There are very Large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy . . . Turkoman settlements ... a number of Persians and a fairly large Afghan colony . . . Motawila ... long settled immigrants from Persia ... tribes of Kurds ... German "Templar" colonies ... a Bosnian colony ... and the Circassian settlements placed in certain centres ... by the Turkish government in order to keep a restraint on the Bedouin ... a large Algerian element in the population ... still maintain(s) [while] the Sudanese have been reduced in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century.
> In the late 18th century, 3,000 Albanians recruited by Russians were settled in Acre.
> The Encyclopaedia Britannica finds "most interesting all the non-Arab communities in the country . . . the Samaritan sect in Nablus (Shechem); a gradually disappearing body" once "settled by the Assyrians to occupy the land left waste by the captivity of the Kingdom of Israel."6
> 
> The Disparate peoples recently assumed and purported to be "settled Arab indigenes, for a thousand years" were in fact a "Heterogeneous" community 7 With NO "Palestinian" identity, and according to an official British historical analysis in 1920, NO Arab identity either:
> "The people west of the Jordan are Not Arabs, but Only Arabic-speaking. The bulk of the population are fellahin.... In the Gaza district they are mostly of Egyptian origin; elsewhere they are of the most mixed race." 8
> 
> Palestine inhabited by a mixed population
Click to expand...


Thank you for this link. I have always tried to avoid calling the Palestinians "the Arabs." Palestine is Arab like the US is English. What has been called Palestine since its borders were defined in 1922 has been in constant flux since the beginning of time. What does this mean? Different people have come and gone but there have always been some who stayed and put down roots. They mixed in with the existing peoples and became the core population for the place now called Palestine.

These are the Palestinians, the normal inhabitants, the permanent population of Palestine. They are the ones who have the right to their country. They are the ones who have the right to self determination.

Foreigners do not have those rights.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i.beletesri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestine inhabited by a Mixed population
> 
> The "Chauvinist Arab version of history," then--so important to the current claim of "Palestinian" rights to "Arab Palestine," which Arab Palestinians PURPORTEDLY inhabited for "Thousands of years" --omits several relevant, situation-altering facts.
> 
> History did not begin with the Arab conquest in the seventh century.
> The people whose nation was destroyed by the Romans were the Jews.
> 
> There were no Arab Palestinians then -- not until 700 years later would an Arab rule prevail, and then Briefly. And not by people known as "Palestinians." The short Arab rule would be reigning over Christians and Jews, who had been there to languish under various other foreign conquerors, -- Roman, Byzantine, Persian, to name just three in the centuries between the Roman and Arab conquests. The peoples who conquered under the banner of the invading Arabians from the desert were often hired mercenaries who remained on the land as soldiers -- not Arabians, but others who were enticed by the promise of the booty of conquest.
> 
> From the time the Arabians, along with their non-Arabian recruits, entered Palestine and Syria, they found and themselves added to what was "ethnologically a chaos of all the possible human combinations to which, when Palestine became a land of pilgrimage, a new admixture was added."1 Among the peoples who have been counted as "indigenous Palestinian Arabs" are Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudanese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, and Tartars.
> John of Wurzburg lists for the middle era of the kingdom, Latins, Germans, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, Armenians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians,Egyptians, Copts, Maronites and natives from the Nile Delta. The list might be much extended, for it was the period of the great self-willed city-states in Europe, and Amalfi, Pisans, Genoese, Venetians, and Marseillais, who had quarters in all the bigger cities, owned villages, and had trading rights, would, in all probability, have submitted to any of the above designations, only under pressure. Besides all these, Norsemen, Danes, Frisians, Tartars, Jews, Arabs, Russians, Nubians, and Samaritans, can be safely added to the greatest human agglomeration drawn together in one small area of the globe."2
> Greeks fled the Muslim rule in Greece, and landed in Palestine.
> By the mid-17 century, the Greeks lived everywhere in the Holy Land--constituting about 20% of the population-and their authority dominated the villages.3
> Between 1750 and 1766 Jaffa had been rebuilt, and had some 500 houses. Turks, Arabs, Greeks and Armenians and a solitary Latin monk lived there, to attend to the wants of the thousands of pilgrims who had to be temporarily housed in the port before proceeding to Jerusalem.4
> "In some cases villages [in Palestine] are populated wholly by settlers from other portions of the Turkish Empire within the 19th century. There are villages of Bosnians, Druzes, Circassians and Egyptians," one historian has reported. 5
> 
> Another source, the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1911 edition (before the "more chauvinist Arab history" began to prevail with the encouragement of the British), finds the "population" of Palestine composed of so "widely differing" a group of "inhabitants" -- whose "ethnological affinities" create "early in the 20th century a list of no less than 50 languages" (see below) -- that "it is therefore no easy task to write concisely ... on the ethnology of Palestine."
> In addition to the "Assyrian, Persian and Roman" elements of ancient times, "the short-lived Egyptian government introduced into the population an element from that country which still persists in the villages."
> . . . There are very Large contingents from the Mediterranean countries, especially Armenia, Greece and Italy . . . Turkoman settlements ... a number of Persians and a fairly large Afghan colony . . . Motawila ... long settled immigrants from Persia ... tribes of Kurds ... German "Templar" colonies ... a Bosnian colony ... and the Circassian settlements placed in certain centres ... by the Turkish government in order to keep a restraint on the Bedouin ... a large Algerian element in the population ... still maintain(s) [while] the Sudanese have been reduced in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century.
> In the late 18th century, 3,000 Albanians recruited by Russians were settled in Acre.
> The Encyclopaedia Britannica finds "most interesting all the non-Arab communities in the country . . . the Samaritan sect in Nablus (Shechem); a gradually disappearing body" once "settled by the Assyrians to occupy the land left waste by the captivity of the Kingdom of Israel."6
> 
> The Disparate peoples recently assumed and purported to be "settled Arab indigenes, for a thousand years" were in fact a "Heterogeneous" community 7 With NO "Palestinian" identity, and according to an official British historical analysis in 1920, NO Arab identity either:
> "The people west of the Jordan are Not Arabs, but Only Arabic-speaking. The bulk of the population are fellahin.... In the Gaza district they are mostly of Egyptian origin; elsewhere they are of the most mixed race." 8
> 
> Palestine inhabited by a mixed population
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for this link. I have always tried to avoid calling the Palestinians "the Arabs." Palestine is Arab like the US is English. What has been called Palestine since its borders were defined in 1922 has been in constant flux since the beginning of time. What does this mean? Different people have come and gone but there have always been some who stayed and put down roots. They mixed in with the existing peoples and became the core population for the place now called Palestine.
> 
> These are the Palestinians, the normal inhabitants, the permanent population of Palestine. They are the ones who have the right to their country. They are the ones who have the right to self determination.
> 
> Foreigners do not have those rights.
Click to expand...


Mr. Tinmore, you are squatting on Native American land.  Please move out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

I think there are equitable arrangements that should be made.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> I think there are equitable arrangements that should be made.



Finally, the first response to me in a long time, Mr. Terrorist and Hypocrite.  You once said you would concentrate your "personal attention" to any direct question to you, but that hasn't happened recently.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are equitable arrangements that should be made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, the first response to me in a long time, Mr. Terrorist and Hypocrite.  You once said you would concentrate your "personal attention" to any direct question to you, but that hasn't happened recently.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I have a family, a job, and a part time business. Contrary to popular opinion, I do not live on this board.


----------



## Epsilon Delta

Considering that you couldn't even answer half my post, I shouldn't bother... but I will nonetheless. 



abu afak said:


> Of course I compared their arbitrariness with Jordanians and other closer groups, Not Moroccans. You, of course CANNOT handle/quote that distinction/non-distinction
> And one notes you don't know/haven't absorbed Both Jordan (77% of the Mandate, and Iraq) were both given To Saudi/Hashemite Princes as spoils. (STOLEN) The former.. er.. 'Palestinian' land.
> Where's your indignence?
> Having to bring in Moroccans just shows the weakness of your position.



Oh man, you just keep missing it, bud. I bring up Moroccans and Yemenis for the simple reason that in your own post that's what you keep saying - that Palestinians are "just Arabs," I bring up Morocco because here we have an example of people who are Arabs, yet, they are different! And you seem to agree, what a surprise. So Palestinians are "just Arabs"... but Moroccans are not "just Arabs"? So Syrians, Iraqis, Jordanians, and Palestinians are all "fake," they are only Arabs... but Moroccans are not "fake"? Or are they not Arabs? Hope you're reading to go down the list, how about Egyptians? Are they "just Arabs"? Which countries are "just Arab" and which countries are "not just Arab," Abu? Which countries of the middle east are made up of a "real" people? 

Nearly all of the current countries of the Middle East were spoils given to different monarchic allies of Britain - - the Sauds, the Hashemites, etc. I am not disputing that. Almost the same is true of most arbitrary lines of African states, or the countries that today are Latin America - which were really just different provinces awarded to different ruling classes in each respective territory. What YOU seem to be saying is that none of these could ever be "a people," which doesn't take into account things like 70 years of nation-building  and self rule by most of these Middle Eastern states. 

The argument that you're making is no different from the argument Saddam would use to justify his invasion and attempted annexation of Kuwait - they're not a "real people", they're just like us, according to you, he's probably right. If Britain had carved up Iraq for it to include Kuwait, Kuwaitis might consider themselves Iraqis today - but they didn't, they've been leading "separate histories" since their inceptions as countries, and therefore, there's millions of people today who consider themselves KUWAITIS, not IRAQIS and not just "Arab." The same is true of the US, where everyone was simply a British subject until barely decades before independence, and a lot of them considered themselves so afterwards too - it took a short period of nation-building for an American identity to be forged. By your standards, Britain would be perfectly justified to impress US sailors in the lead-up to the War of 1812, because they hadn't even been a country for 36 years, not enough time to forge their own identity _according to you_ - they were just British soldiers. 

The act of forming a polity that views itself differently necessarily leads to the creation of "a people" as a separate identity, maybe not everyone accepts the identity immediately, but eventually every people today who consider themselves something, or part of a particular polity, necessarily form a "people" themselves, regardless of YOUR arbitrary parameters. The problem here is that any other example is irrelevant: To YOU it doesn't matter whether Central American states each have their own people, or whether Americans were a "real people" when they were a young nation, or whether Austrians are a "real people" vis-a-vis the Germans. None of this is relevant to you, because you either take it as a given or simply never thought about it and don't care. Your entire purpose rests on this one particular people, the Palestinian people, to delegitimize them and justify violence and oppression against them by a polity that you yourself support.  




> What? :^)
> Get a grip. We're not talking about "cleansing", we're talking about what makes a people.
> You want to try the 'Cleansing' slander-- try another string.
> Hint: it won't work either.



I assume this is what you take issue with: 

"That's why it's irrelevant how you frame it, what it comes down to is advocating ethnic cleansing: you want to claim that there is no such thing as palestinians so that you can legitimize your belief that Israel is justified in kicking every Palestinian out of where they've always lived and their ancestors lived because they're "just Arabs" and so they can go live in any other Arab place. Until you go ahead and explain that this would be legitimate for any other country - that anybody can walk into Austria because theyre "just Germans" or that anybody can take over Singapore because they're "just Chinese" we know that you're just fulfilling the role of a propagandist for one side's violence."

I'm sorry, if this is incorrect. Let me rephrase. Let's assume, as you do, then, that Palestinians are not a "people," as you claim. The question is: *So what is the implication of that, as you see it, as it relates to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?* 

Happy? 



> The main thing that separates American from Canadian, AS I SAID, is 300+ years of different history AS peoples.
> NO such difference between 'Jordanians' and 'palestinians'. No Cultural or lingual difference either.



What separates an American and Canadian is 300 hundred years of different history AS peoples? Well, actually it's closer to 235, but ok. Let's then say you're right and that there was no difference between Jordanians and Palestinians until 44 years ago, when their different histories began, according to you.

I posit the question again, Professor: at which point, between 44 years of "different histories" and 235 years of "different histories," can a 'potential people' become a real people? How many years should elapse according to you, before it's legitimate for people to call themselves a people? 



> This would be true (ooops) if there was ONE Arabia instead of many bogus countries, but is NOT true of the fake mini-constructs resulting from Ottoman break up.
> Iraqis, Jordanians, Palestinians have no shared sense of Individualness/History/Raison. Americans did at the time of the Constitution.
> The defeat of the Ottomans just left a lot of Sheikdoms/Emirates/Tribes and a few kingdoms. Only the latter close to a 'people' or Nation. UNLIKE Zionists.



Again, you keep making the mistake that a people have to have some sort of millenary history for it to be "real." As I've said before [which you totally ignored] the entire thing with the borders is no more or less legitimate than any other border. I'll repost, since you ignored it:

"Nearly every country in the world today, including most of the Americas, Africa, and Oceania are based on conqueror constructs thanks to a history of imperialism and colonialism. There is absolutely no "ethnic" differences between New Zealanders and Australians and Britons and Canadians, yet they're not all the same [again] or any less legitimate. In reality, all borders are illegitimate arbitrary creations that don't follow any real logic, but that is the way the world is ordered and hence the reality we have to deal with. I don't know if you have ever seen a map of the US, but there's a suspiciously long straight line running from the great lakes to the pacific that surely respects no ethnic, linguistic, or cultural divisions and resulted from the US bargaining with Britain, and is the only reason people in norther Minnesota and N Dakota today aren't Canadian. That's the way it is and it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. The fact is that TODAY Iraqis, Jordanians, and Palestinians are people, specifically Arab people who live in the land spaces that today are called those names, no different from any other country." 

Like I said before which you ignored, Central America was part of Mexico at independence - same language, similar customs, same "ethnicity" in a way, yet they separated and became a different people. Then the 5 constituent provinces themselves separated. What you claim is that none of these countries are a "people" because _you_ consider them 'too similar' to their neighbors to be a different people - if you feel that way about the Middle East because of the reasons you describe, there's little reason for you to think any differently of the Spanish colonies in the Americas, unless of course, they satisfy your hitherto undisclosed "time requirement for peopledom" (10? 100? 1000 years was it, Abu?)  



> I said 70% NOT half. Dishonest quote.
> And a laughable point/NOT analogous since Jews are claiming the USA as a Second state.



It's not a dishonest quote, dickwad. I was correcting you. 50% of Jordanians are Palestinians (or "West Bankers"), not 70%. "LOL" 



> That's "Sanjaks" NOT "Seljuks"
> Seljuks were a 1000 year old Islamic (Turkish) Dynasty.
> LOL.



Yeah well, was in a rush, honest mistake. 



> And unlike their neighbors Jordan and [rejected] palestine, Jews were expected (and do) share their land even though a majority in it as of of 1947. (thus it's borders)
> -



I'm not denying that Israelis are a majority in the 1948 lines, or that they should give any of the pre 67-land land back. Thought I made that pretty clear in my post.

Anyway, here's the rest, you seem to have missed it:



			
				Epsilon Delta said:
			
		

> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does but only now. But let's not kid ourselves about "some great country called Palestine being overrun by the Jews".
> What makes a 'people' is Culture, Language, Ethnicity/Race, shared History, etc and they know it.
> Jews know they are a people.
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually they're not, by YOUR own arbitrary standards they would not qualify as a people for most of the past 2000 years. This is just sad. By your own arbitrary definition of what makes a "people", not mine (I don't have one, I'm so naive that I assume that when millions of people define themselves as something, I should be inclined to believe them).
> 
> Jews did not have the same language until the 1900s. Hebrew was a dead language only used for liturgical purposes, just like Latin, for over 1500 years. The vast majority of Jews did not speak Hebrew. Jews are not all of the same race or ethnicity - there's Slavic Jews, Western European Jews, Black Ethiopian Jews, Arab Jews. They did not have a shared history - there was a hugely spread out diaspora living all over the world with their own individual histories - and there still are to a degree. That's why all your "parameters" are useless. The only relevant thing is that Jews KNOW they are a people. Hence, they are a people - like Palestinians feel that they are a people. Whether they speak different languages, have different histories, or are of different races is entirely irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
> But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure that Kurds are a people. I'm not going to deny that. If Kurds want a state, they should have one, Britain should've carved a Kurdish state. If they wanted to separate from Iraq/Turkey/Syria/Iran, I'd be all for it, and if they were oppressed (as they have been for ages by all of those regimes) I'll be the first to condemn it. This thread isn't about Kurds though. Feel free to make one and I'll go right to it.
Click to expand...


----------



## abu afak

Actually you keep being humiliated by facts.
I post Facts and History you post increasingly long/defensive replies.
Full of nonsense argumentation.
It's clear [only] ONE of us knows the subject matter (Seljuks/Sanjaks/I-P-history) while you try and BLUFF your way through.
So this is shorter, sweeter, (the longhand above) and to the point I (as the truth can be) for everyone else. 
(since you know you're Fullof it/have lost)
But thanks for this Showcase/Being my foil, if a poor one.



> Oh man, you just keep missing it, bud. I bring up Moroccans and Yemenis for the simple reason that in your own post that's what you keep saying - that Palestinians are "just Arabs," I bring up Morocco because here we have an example of people who are Arabs, yet, they are different! And you seem to agree, what a surprise. So Palestinians are "just Arabs"... but Moroccans are not "just Arabs"? ...


Now you got it! Unwittingly as always but that's a true statement even if in the form of an anti-true ironic one.

*I suggest You google/Wiki 'Morocco' (which is why you used it Instead of the More appropriate/analogous Iraq or Jordan) and you'll see, that UNLIKE Palestinians, Morocco  (Like, Jews/Zionists, Turks, Egyptians, etc) has a long history of being an independent country/people. 
And unlike Kurds, Palestinians are NOT a unique Ethnology/Language/Culture either...
and Unlike Americans not a group with even a Raison/Declaration of Independence.
IOW... No way at all.

They were Leftover Arabs that could have become part of Jordan, Syria, or Egypt (especially more closely related Gazans for the latter). And would have staid such were it not for the fact Arabs lost the 1967 War.
They were not a people.*

Your posts get Longer (baffle em with BS) in desperate hope they will intimidate.. but you can't refute this Single fact. Palestinians were NOT a people.
Thus (again) even from 1948-1967 when Arabs controlled the land there was NO 'palestine.
They are NOT Like Moroccans, Kurds, or Americans.

In fact, even your only single tiny arguable claim, that they are unique within Arabs.. is UNTRUE/I Refuted.
They had not only not any "National"/Palestinian Identity but "Not Arab either". (link in last)

Yet Further...



> _"...Arab activist Musa Alami despaired: as he saw the problem, "how can people struggle for their nation, when most of them do not know the meaning of the word? ... *The people are in great need of a 'Myth' to fill their consciousness and imagination. . . ." According to Alami, an indoctrination of the "Myth" of Nationality would create "identity" and "self-respect."8
> 
> However, Alami's proposal was confounded by the realities: between 1948 and 1967, the Arab state of Jordan claimed Annexation of the territory west of the Jordan River, the "West Bank" area of Palestine -- *the SAME area that would LATER be forwarded by Arab "moderates" as a "mini-state" for the "Palestinians."
> 
> Thus, that area was, between 1948 and 1967, called "Arab land," the peoples were Arabs, and yet the "myth" that Musa Alami prescribed-the cause of "Palestine" for the "Palestinians" -- remained Unheralded, Unadopted by the Arabs during two decades.
> According to Lord Caradon, "Every Arab assumed the Palestinians [Refugees] would go *Back to Jordan*.9.."_
> 
> Same link/website as in last That You Couldn't Even Touch!


So Again thanks.
I Love amateurs.
Now your next post will have to try and Bury the truth with a yet longer one.
But I'm done with you now BOY.
Unless it's to hold you up for further embarrassment to make a point.
-


----------



## Epsilon Delta

I do love the way you spin the fact that you can't respond to simple examples and have to make an excuse that the post is "too long" to respond instead of facing up to your obvious intellectual incapacity.  You can't even answer the most elementary questions on your 'parameters' for "Peopledom". It's pathetic, but admittedly amusing.



> I posit the question again [FOR THE THIRD TIME], Professor: at which point, between 44 years of "different histories" and 235 years of "different histories," can a 'potential people' become a real people? How many years should elapse according to you, before it's legitimate for people to call themselves a people?



To be honest I'm just hoping for you to enlighten me, Professor Abak. You see, I come from a small country that also speaks the same language as its neighbors, that also had the same imperial history for many centuries, that also had a similar "ethnic make up" and that is also shaped by supposedly illegitimate imperial constructed borders... You've put some great doubt in my mind, Abu. All this time I thought the Costa Rican people were a people... but now I'm not sure, bud. Cuz I'm not sure if we meet the "time lapsed" requirement or the [this one's great] "RAISON" requirement that you obviously cannot answer, because you're a pathetic idiot who's entire point with this thread is to legitimize genocide and ethnic cleansing, but then denies it. 

"Raison"/declaration of independence... you realize that's the part where you give away the fact that you are a complete moron, right? Funny, cuz Kurds never had a declaration of independence, or self rule - most of the indigenous peoples of the Americas haven't had declarations of independence or self-rule in, at least, 500 years... Guess they're not a people either. Oh, but the Kurds ARE a people, because they're all the same ethnicity and speak the same language... But then... Americans don't all have the same ethnicity, and there is such a thing as "the American people," I presume. Canadians don't really have a unique ethnicity or language either, but they are "independent" from Great Britain, so... Hmmm, I dunno, as I said before too, which you conveniently ignored, Jewish people did not have a single history, or a single language, or a declaration of independence, or a single ethnicity for thousands of years and even today... but THEY qualify as people.... how can that be?? I'm getting very confused. It seems like the requirements needed by some are not met by others, yet they remain people... Everyone... Hmmm... Except for Palestinians!! How fucking convenient for you!!

Oh, that's right! Because the whole point is that there is no single definition for what constitutes a people, all that we can tell from your examples and your "parameters" is that everyone that you don't have a problem with can be a people for any of the above listed reasons, except Palestinians, because you say so. _You_, Abu Afak, USBM poster, reserve yourself the right to decide who is a people and who isn't. Do you keep a record? Abu Afak's "People Compendium: A guide to peoples who are a people and people who aren't a people"? Do people around the world come to you, so that they can learn when they're allowed to be a people or not? Do you have an office in town? Or is this really all just the fact that everyone is a people, _except_ Palestinians. Can I have other examples of "fake people" other than the Palestinians, Jordanians, Iraqis? Give us more fake people. I wanna know who they are.

As a side note: I'm not interested in your silly propaganda links.  EretzYsrael.org? Really? I can see that it's written for the intellectually challenged, like yourself, but please. Don't insult me with "EretzYsrael.org," I think that's beneath even _you_. A "myth" of nationality to create "identity" and "self respect" is basically a description of every state that has ever existed, Israel AND the United States included. But again, the point is that you have an irrational hatred of Palestinian people and thus have to delegitimize them as a people, they're not a people, they're cockroaches and dogs who should be cast out if not exterminated. We know the story. Thanks for sharing, but no thanks.


----------



## P F Tinmore

> Palestinians were NOT a people.



Now all you have to do is convince the Palestinians of that pantload.

There is no Palestine.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFhgYo5ahs]YouTube - &#x202a;86 a Sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians were NOT a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now all you have to do is convince the Palestinians of that pantload._


In the words of Bruce Thornton: "What constitutes a people are a shared language, culture, customs, traditions, and history distinct enough to set them apart from others. By these criteria, there is no such thing as "Palestinians"."
So, it's evident that outside of the affirmative action perennial arab loser support and pestering of jews there're no other reasons for existence of the "palistani people".


----------



## P F Tinmore

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians were NOT a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now all you have to do is convince the Palestinians of that pantload._
> 
> 
> 
> In the words of Bruce Thornton: "What constitutes a people are a shared language, culture, customs, traditions, and history distinct enough to set them apart from others. By these criteria, there is no such thing as "Palestinians"."
> So, it's evident that outside of the affirmative action perennial arab loser support and pestering of jews there're no other reasons for existence of the "palistani people".
Click to expand...


The Palestinians have all that. What is your point?


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _
> Now all you have to do is convince the Palestinians of that pantload._
> 
> 
> 
> In the words of Bruce Thornton: "What constitutes a people are a shared language, culture, customs, traditions, and history distinct enough to set them apart from others. By these criteria, there is no such thing as "Palestinians"."
> So, it's evident that outside of the affirmative action perennial arab loser support and pestering of jews there're no other reasons for existence of the "palistani people".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _The Palestinians have all that._
Click to expand...

They believe they have all that. Not enough, of course. Nothing sets them apart from other general arabs from the hood.


----------



## P F Tinmore

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the words of Bruce Thornton: "What constitutes a people are a shared language, culture, customs, traditions, and history distinct enough to set them apart from others. By these criteria, there is no such thing as "Palestinians"."
> So, it's evident that outside of the affirmative action perennial arab loser support and pestering of jews there're no other reasons for existence of the "palistani people".
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians have all that._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They believe they have all that. Not enough, of course. Nothing sets them apart from other general arabs from the hood.
Click to expand...


Sure they do. Who else has *two* prime ministers?


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The Palestinians have all that._
> 
> 
> 
> They believe they have all that. Not enough, of course. Nothing sets them apart from other general arabs from the hood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Sure they do. Who else has *two* prime ministers?_
Click to expand...

Indeed, one thief-in-chief is never enough in palistan.


----------



## P F Tinmore

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They believe they have all that. Not enough, of course. Nothing sets them apart from other general arabs from the hood.
> 
> 
> 
> _Sure they do. Who else has *two* prime ministers?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, one thief-in-chief is never enough in palistan.
Click to expand...


Only one of them is a thief. The one the US likes.


----------



## JStone

Jos said:


> :usa_whistle::eusa_histle:



Coin ca. 1927 AD.  LOL

*Israel Stele, ca. 1200 BCE*.: http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/03/the-merenptah-stela.aspx#Article

I win by 3,000+ years.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestinians were NOT a people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now all you have to do is convince the Palestinians of that pantload.
> 
> There is no Palestine.
Click to expand...


Arabs were convinced there has never been a "Palestine" 50+ years ago...

Philip Hitti, Arab historian, Princeton Univ. professor, advisor to the Arab delegation which established the United Nations representing  the Institute of Arab American Affairs testifying before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946...


> The Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us, becauseby smearing the walls of the rooms with maps of Palestine, they areassociating it in the mind of the average American--and I may say perhaps the Englishman too---with the Jews. *Sir, there is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.*


Source: Hearing before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, Washington D.C., State Department, Jan. 11, 1946, Central Zionist Archive (Jerusalem),  p. 6.


----------



## hortysir

P F Tinmore said:


> They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> 
> 
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa 1937, flying Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get off that propaganda.
Click to expand...




abu afak said:


> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*


Compared to HOW MANY centuries of Israelites?


----------



## JStone

hortysir said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> 
> 
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa 1937, flying Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get off that propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Compared to HOW MANY centuries of Israelites?
Click to expand...


At least 3200 years of Israelite history, verified by the archaeological record.

Arabs first began calling themselves Palestinians in 1967


----------



## JStone

Epsilon Delta said:


> You seem to have entirely missed the point. =/ But I'll go through it again anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism was  100 Year old Nationalist revival Movement of the Jews. Reviving one of 3200 years and existed for 1400 years,
> 'Palestinianism' was NOT.
> Not only did they Not accept the partition creating 'Palestine' in 1948, but for 20 years subsequent the land was Annexed by Jordan and there was NO 'Palestine' nor even really 'palestinians',
> as Arabs never really bought that crap until about the time they lost the WB to Israel in the 1967 War. Otherwise there would still be passport-carrying Jordanians.
> Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian' (whatever that is) as it's Queen.
> In fact, in 'Black September' (1970), Arafat & co. tried to Make Jordan the Palestinian state it is/was by overthrowing King Hussein.
> But they lost-- and it was back to 'Israel' and wanting the West Bank which was renounced in the 1964 PLO Charter.
> Very Little between American and Canadian.. perhaps except Shared 300+ years histories of each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the main point of this is LAND. Palestinians are linguistically and culturally "Arab" peoples, the key point of their identity is the fact that they or their ancestors lived in the region of historic Palestine. All that you can claim is that they're "just Arabs," which is false and, frankly, stupid - a Yemeni is an Arab too, so is a Moroccan, yet they're not the _same_, and they live thousands of miles from each other. Again, someone from Canada might have the exact same language, exact same skin color, exact same white anglo-protestant ethno-religious background as someone from the US, it doesn't give anybody the right to come to Canada and cleanse it because "they're the same as Americas [according to me]." What separates a Canadian from an American is the fact that one LIVES in the LAND of Canada and another LIVES in the LAND of America, hence they subscribe to different national identities and are not the same - a Canadian does not consider himself an American, just like Palestinians don't consider themselves Iraqis. Even WITHIN countries the culture varies - New York has a different "culture" from Texas, even if they both share American culture.
> 
> And just because America became a country 200 years ago but most Arab countries became countries 70 years ago doesn't make a difference, unless you're willing to sit down now and explain to everyone here at what arbitrary point in time (in years) does an identity become "legitimate" enough for you - is it 20 years? 40 years? 200 years? 2000 years? And WHY?
> 
> That half of Jordan identifies itself as Palestinian is, again, irrelevant. Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right? Or what, is it because it's not ruled by Jews that it's not appropriate? Neither is Jordan, so I guess it's not appropriate either. That is, if we're being honest and holding everyone to the same standard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much bigger between Americans and Mexicans who are a different ethnicity/language/culture (which is why you Didn't make THAT comparison) and part of whose Land we Americans now sit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't see the relevance. Explain.
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly every country in the world today, including most of the Americas, Africa, and Oceania are based on conqueror constructs thanks to a history of imperialism and colonialism. There is absolutely no "ethnic" differences between New Zealanders and Australians and Britons and Canadians, yet they're not all the same [again] or any less legitimate. In reality, all borders are illegitimate arbitrary creations that don't follow any real logic, but that is the way the world is ordered and hence the reality we have to deal with. I don't know if you have ever seen a map of the US, but there's a suspiciously long straight line running from the great lakes to the pacific that surely respects no ethnic, linguistic, or cultural divisions and resulted from the US bargaining with Britain, and is the only reason people in norther Minnesota and N Dakota today aren't Canadian. That's the way it is and it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. The fact is that TODAY Iraqis, Jordanians, and Palestinians are people, specifically Arab people who live in the land spaces that today are called those names, no different from any other country.
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I'm talking about. The British Mandate of Palestine itself was entirely arbitrarily constructed in the 1920s by a caretaker colonial administration. During Ottoman times what is now Jordan was entirely a different province and what is now Israel/OPTs were separated into three or four Ottoman Seljuks, all of which had a huge majority of Arabs and only a tiny percentage of Jews. And that's what the point is - whether _they _were _there_, they LIVED there, not in Algeria or in Kuwait, but THERE. That's why they're not "just Arabs." That's why Israelis are not "just Jews" anymore, because they live THERE.
> 
> That's why it's irrelevant how you frame it, what it comes down to is advocating ethnic cleansing: you want to claim that there is no such thing as palestinians so that you can legitimize your belief that Israel is justified in kicking every Palestinian out of where they've always lived and their ancestors lived because they're "just Arabs"  and so they can go live in any other Arab place. Until you go ahead and explain that this would be legitimate for any other country - that anybody can walk into Austria because theyre "just Germans" or that anybody can take over Singapore because they're "just Chinese" we know that you're just fulfilling the role of a propagandist for one side's violence.
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually they're not, by YOUR own arbitrary standards they would not qualify as a people for most of the past 2000 years. This is just sad. By your own arbitrary definition of what makes a "people", not mine (I don't have one, I'm so naive that I assume that when millions of people define themselves as something, I should be inclined to believe them).
> 
> Jews did not have the same language until the 1900s. Hebrew was a dead language only used for liturgical purposes, just like Latin, for over 1500 years. The vast majority of Jews did not speak Hebrew. Jews are not all of the same race or ethnicity - there's Slavic Jews, Western European Jews, Black Ethiopian Jews, Arab Jews. They did not have a shared history - there was a hugely spread out diaspora living all over the world with their own individual histories - and there still are to a degree. That's why all your "parameters" are useless. The only relevant thing is that Jews KNOW they are a people. Hence, they are a people - like Palestinians feel that they are a people. Whether they speak different languages, have different histories, or are of different races is entirely irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Arabs under various new, made-up, misgrouped (ie 'Iraq'), and old names got 99% of the Ottoman Break up.The problem, as you unwitting quoted above, was they wanted 100%.
> But Arabs overall did very well in the Break-up. Perhaps ruling 110% of their 'original Range'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Arabs" got countries where they lived under Ottoman rule. Turks got Turkey, where they lived. The Kurds did get screwed over, but at least they're still where they lived, not getting bulldozed out of their land anymore. Again, what happened elsewhere is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
> 
> What is relevant is that the Arabs of historic Palestine, today known as Palestinians, wanted 100% because they basically were 100% until mass immigration of Jews began in the 1920s; their population began doubling every 10 years, it began to be overrun by Jews basically. Even in 48, Jews were only a third of the population, and they also wanted 100%.
> 
> I think most people, Israelis and Jews, know they will not have 100%. But those that do on either side, regardless of all the false justifications they can give, whether you with your "palestinians aren't real" or "palestinians don't deserve to live there" or people on the other side with their "Jews aren't real" or "Jews stole all the land so they must be driven out" - it's pathetic. They can see very clearly the other sides terrible propositions, but cannot come to terms with the fact that they're advocating the same exact thing. It's called ethnic cleansing. Both sides propose it, both are wrong. Everything else is just a veil to justify it - there is no justification for it, so stop trying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
> But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure that Kurds are a people. I'm not going to deny that. If Kurds want a state, they should have one, Britain should've carved a Kurdish state. If they wanted to separate from Iraq/Turkey/Syria/Iran, I'd be all for it, and if they were oppressed (as they have been for ages by all of those regimes) I'll be the first to condemn it. This thread isn't about Kurds though. Feel free to make one and I'll go right to it.
Click to expand...


Jews have inhabited Israel for 3000+ years and ruled in Israel for 500+ years, according Jews prior possession of their ancestral land.  

Palestinians, not so much.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to have entirely missed the point. =/ But I'll go through it again anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism was  100 Year old Nationalist revival Movement of the Jews. Reviving one of 3200 years and existed for 1400 years,
> 'Palestinianism' was NOT.
> Not only did they Not accept the partition creating 'Palestine' in 1948, but for 20 years subsequent the land was Annexed by Jordan and there was NO 'Palestine' nor even really 'palestinians',
> as Arabs never really bought that crap until about the time they lost the WB to Israel in the 1967 War. Otherwise there would still be passport-carrying Jordanians.
> Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian' (whatever that is) as it's Queen.
> In fact, in 'Black September' (1970), Arafat & co. tried to Make Jordan the Palestinian state it is/was by overthrowing King Hussein.
> But they lost-- and it was back to 'Israel' and wanting the West Bank which was renounced in the 1964 PLO Charter.
> Very Little between American and Canadian.. perhaps except Shared 300+ years histories of each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the main point of this is LAND. Palestinians are linguistically and culturally "Arab" peoples, the key point of their identity is the fact that they or their ancestors lived in the region of historic Palestine. All that you can claim is that they're "just Arabs," which is false and, frankly, stupid - a Yemeni is an Arab too, so is a Moroccan, yet they're not the _same_, and they live thousands of miles from each other. Again, someone from Canada might have the exact same language, exact same skin color, exact same white anglo-protestant ethno-religious background as someone from the US, it doesn't give anybody the right to come to Canada and cleanse it because "they're the same as Americas [according to me]." What separates a Canadian from an American is the fact that one LIVES in the LAND of Canada and another LIVES in the LAND of America, hence they subscribe to different national identities and are not the same - a Canadian does not consider himself an American, just like Palestinians don't consider themselves Iraqis. Even WITHIN countries the culture varies - New York has a different "culture" from Texas, even if they both share American culture.
> 
> And just because America became a country 200 years ago but most Arab countries became countries 70 years ago doesn't make a difference, unless you're willing to sit down now and explain to everyone here at what arbitrary point in time (in years) does an identity become "legitimate" enough for you - is it 20 years? 40 years? 200 years? 2000 years? And WHY?
> 
> That half of Jordan identifies itself as Palestinian is, again, irrelevant. Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right? Or what, is it because it's not ruled by Jews that it's not appropriate? Neither is Jordan, so I guess it's not appropriate either. That is, if we're being honest and holding everyone to the same standard.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't see the relevance. Explain.
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly every country in the world today, including most of the Americas, Africa, and Oceania are based on conqueror constructs thanks to a history of imperialism and colonialism. There is absolutely no "ethnic" differences between New Zealanders and Australians and Britons and Canadians, yet they're not all the same [again] or any less legitimate. In reality, all borders are illegitimate arbitrary creations that don't follow any real logic, but that is the way the world is ordered and hence the reality we have to deal with. I don't know if you have ever seen a map of the US, but there's a suspiciously long straight line running from the great lakes to the pacific that surely respects no ethnic, linguistic, or cultural divisions and resulted from the US bargaining with Britain, and is the only reason people in norther Minnesota and N Dakota today aren't Canadian. That's the way it is and it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. The fact is that TODAY Iraqis, Jordanians, and Palestinians are people, specifically Arab people who live in the land spaces that today are called those names, no different from any other country.
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I'm talking about. The British Mandate of Palestine itself was entirely arbitrarily constructed in the 1920s by a caretaker colonial administration. During Ottoman times what is now Jordan was entirely a different province and what is now Israel/OPTs were separated into three or four Ottoman Seljuks, all of which had a huge majority of Arabs and only a tiny percentage of Jews. And that's what the point is - whether _they _were _there_, they LIVED there, not in Algeria or in Kuwait, but THERE. That's why they're not "just Arabs." That's why Israelis are not "just Jews" anymore, because they live THERE.
> 
> That's why it's irrelevant how you frame it, what it comes down to is advocating ethnic cleansing: you want to claim that there is no such thing as palestinians so that you can legitimize your belief that Israel is justified in kicking every Palestinian out of where they've always lived and their ancestors lived because they're "just Arabs"  and so they can go live in any other Arab place. Until you go ahead and explain that this would be legitimate for any other country - that anybody can walk into Austria because theyre "just Germans" or that anybody can take over Singapore because they're "just Chinese" we know that you're just fulfilling the role of a propagandist for one side's violence.
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually they're not, by YOUR own arbitrary standards they would not qualify as a people for most of the past 2000 years. This is just sad. By your own arbitrary definition of what makes a "people", not mine (I don't have one, I'm so naive that I assume that when millions of people define themselves as something, I should be inclined to believe them).
> 
> Jews did not have the same language until the 1900s. Hebrew was a dead language only used for liturgical purposes, just like Latin, for over 1500 years. The vast majority of Jews did not speak Hebrew. Jews are not all of the same race or ethnicity - there's Slavic Jews, Western European Jews, Black Ethiopian Jews, Arab Jews. They did not have a shared history - there was a hugely spread out diaspora living all over the world with their own individual histories - and there still are to a degree. That's why all your "parameters" are useless. The only relevant thing is that Jews KNOW they are a people. Hence, they are a people - like Palestinians feel that they are a people. Whether they speak different languages, have different histories, or are of different races is entirely irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> "Arabs" got countries where they lived under Ottoman rule. Turks got Turkey, where they lived. The Kurds did get screwed over, but at least they're still where they lived, not getting bulldozed out of their land anymore. Again, what happened elsewhere is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
> 
> What is relevant is that the Arabs of historic Palestine, today known as Palestinians, wanted 100% because they basically were 100% until mass immigration of Jews began in the 1920s; their population began doubling every 10 years, it began to be overrun by Jews basically. Even in 48, Jews were only a third of the population, and they also wanted 100%.
> 
> I think most people, Israelis and Jews, know they will not have 100%. But those that do on either side, regardless of all the false justifications they can give, whether you with your "palestinians aren't real" or "palestinians don't deserve to live there" or people on the other side with their "Jews aren't real" or "Jews stole all the land so they must be driven out" - it's pathetic. They can see very clearly the other sides terrible propositions, but cannot come to terms with the fact that they're advocating the same exact thing. It's called ethnic cleansing. Both sides propose it, both are wrong. Everything else is just a veil to justify it - there is no justification for it, so stop trying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
> But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure that Kurds are a people. I'm not going to deny that. If Kurds want a state, they should have one, Britain should've carved a Kurdish state. If they wanted to separate from Iraq/Turkey/Syria/Iran, I'd be all for it, and if they were oppressed (as they have been for ages by all of those regimes) I'll be the first to condemn it. This thread isn't about Kurds though. Feel free to make one and I'll go right to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews have inhabited Israel for 3000+ years and ruled in Israel for 500+ years, according Jews prior possession of their ancestral land.
> 
> Palestinians, not so much.
Click to expand...


Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. The native Jews were opposed to the creation of a Jewish state.

There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to have entirely missed the point. =/ But I'll go through it again anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the main point of this is LAND. Palestinians are linguistically and culturally "Arab" peoples, the key point of their identity is the fact that they or their ancestors lived in the region of historic Palestine. All that you can claim is that they're "just Arabs," which is false and, frankly, stupid - a Yemeni is an Arab too, so is a Moroccan, yet they're not the _same_, and they live thousands of miles from each other. Again, someone from Canada might have the exact same language, exact same skin color, exact same white anglo-protestant ethno-religious background as someone from the US, it doesn't give anybody the right to come to Canada and cleanse it because "they're the same as Americas [according to me]." What separates a Canadian from an American is the fact that one LIVES in the LAND of Canada and another LIVES in the LAND of America, hence they subscribe to different national identities and are not the same - a Canadian does not consider himself an American, just like Palestinians don't consider themselves Iraqis. Even WITHIN countries the culture varies - New York has a different "culture" from Texas, even if they both share American culture.
> 
> And just because America became a country 200 years ago but most Arab countries became countries 70 years ago doesn't make a difference, unless you're willing to sit down now and explain to everyone here at what arbitrary point in time (in years) does an identity become "legitimate" enough for you - is it 20 years? 40 years? 200 years? 2000 years? And WHY?
> 
> That half of Jordan identifies itself as Palestinian is, again, irrelevant. Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right? Or what, is it because it's not ruled by Jews that it's not appropriate? Neither is Jordan, so I guess it's not appropriate either. That is, if we're being honest and holding everyone to the same standard.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't see the relevance. Explain.
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly every country in the world today, including most of the Americas, Africa, and Oceania are based on conqueror constructs thanks to a history of imperialism and colonialism. There is absolutely no "ethnic" differences between New Zealanders and Australians and Britons and Canadians, yet they're not all the same [again] or any less legitimate. In reality, all borders are illegitimate arbitrary creations that don't follow any real logic, but that is the way the world is ordered and hence the reality we have to deal with. I don't know if you have ever seen a map of the US, but there's a suspiciously long straight line running from the great lakes to the pacific that surely respects no ethnic, linguistic, or cultural divisions and resulted from the US bargaining with Britain, and is the only reason people in norther Minnesota and N Dakota today aren't Canadian. That's the way it is and it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. The fact is that TODAY Iraqis, Jordanians, and Palestinians are people, specifically Arab people who live in the land spaces that today are called those names, no different from any other country.
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I'm talking about. The British Mandate of Palestine itself was entirely arbitrarily constructed in the 1920s by a caretaker colonial administration. During Ottoman times what is now Jordan was entirely a different province and what is now Israel/OPTs were separated into three or four Ottoman Seljuks, all of which had a huge majority of Arabs and only a tiny percentage of Jews. And that's what the point is - whether _they _were _there_, they LIVED there, not in Algeria or in Kuwait, but THERE. That's why they're not "just Arabs." That's why Israelis are not "just Jews" anymore, because they live THERE.
> 
> That's why it's irrelevant how you frame it, what it comes down to is advocating ethnic cleansing: you want to claim that there is no such thing as palestinians so that you can legitimize your belief that Israel is justified in kicking every Palestinian out of where they've always lived and their ancestors lived because they're "just Arabs"  and so they can go live in any other Arab place. Until you go ahead and explain that this would be legitimate for any other country - that anybody can walk into Austria because theyre "just Germans" or that anybody can take over Singapore because they're "just Chinese" we know that you're just fulfilling the role of a propagandist for one side's violence.
> 
> 
> 
> No, actually they're not, by YOUR own arbitrary standards they would not qualify as a people for most of the past 2000 years. This is just sad. By your own arbitrary definition of what makes a "people", not mine (I don't have one, I'm so naive that I assume that when millions of people define themselves as something, I should be inclined to believe them).
> 
> Jews did not have the same language until the 1900s. Hebrew was a dead language only used for liturgical purposes, just like Latin, for over 1500 years. The vast majority of Jews did not speak Hebrew. Jews are not all of the same race or ethnicity - there's Slavic Jews, Western European Jews, Black Ethiopian Jews, Arab Jews. They did not have a shared history - there was a hugely spread out diaspora living all over the world with their own individual histories - and there still are to a degree. That's why all your "parameters" are useless. The only relevant thing is that Jews KNOW they are a people. Hence, they are a people - like Palestinians feel that they are a people. Whether they speak different languages, have different histories, or are of different races is entirely irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> "Arabs" got countries where they lived under Ottoman rule. Turks got Turkey, where they lived. The Kurds did get screwed over, but at least they're still where they lived, not getting bulldozed out of their land anymore. Again, what happened elsewhere is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
> 
> What is relevant is that the Arabs of historic Palestine, today known as Palestinians, wanted 100% because they basically were 100% until mass immigration of Jews began in the 1920s; their population began doubling every 10 years, it began to be overrun by Jews basically. Even in 48, Jews were only a third of the population, and they also wanted 100%.
> 
> I think most people, Israelis and Jews, know they will not have 100%. But those that do on either side, regardless of all the false justifications they can give, whether you with your "palestinians aren't real" or "palestinians don't deserve to live there" or people on the other side with their "Jews aren't real" or "Jews stole all the land so they must be driven out" - it's pathetic. They can see very clearly the other sides terrible propositions, but cannot come to terms with the fact that they're advocating the same exact thing. It's called ethnic cleansing. Both sides propose it, both are wrong. Everything else is just a veil to justify it - there is no justification for it, so stop trying.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure that Kurds are a people. I'm not going to deny that. If Kurds want a state, they should have one, Britain should've carved a Kurdish state. If they wanted to separate from Iraq/Turkey/Syria/Iran, I'd be all for it, and if they were oppressed (as they have been for ages by all of those regimes) I'll be the first to condemn it. This thread isn't about Kurds though. Feel free to make one and I'll go right to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have inhabited Israel for 3000+ years and ruled in Israel for 500+ years, according Jews prior possession of their ancestral land.
> 
> Palestinians, not so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. The native Jews were opposed to the creation of a Jewish state.
> 
> There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.
Click to expand...


Jews were the predominant People in ancient Canaan/Israel for 1,000 years until the Roman conquest.

Jews are the only People to survive 3000 continual years in Israel.

Jews are the only People to have had a nation in Canaan/Israel.

So-called Palestinians didn't even exist before 1967.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.



*University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology: Canaan and Israel*
Penn Museum - Canaan and Ancient Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews have inhabited Israel for 3000+ years and ruled in Israel for 500+ years, according Jews prior possession of their ancestral land.
> 
> Palestinians, not so much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. The native Jews were opposed to the creation of a Jewish state.
> 
> There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews were the predominant People in ancient Canaan/Israel for 1,000 years until the Roman conquest.
> 
> Jews are the only People to survive 3000 continual years in Israel.
> 
> Jews are the only People to have had a nation in Canaan/Israel.
> 
> So-called Palestinians didn't even exist before 1967.
Click to expand...


What page of Israel's bullshit manual is that on?


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there. The native Jews were opposed to the creation of a Jewish state.
> 
> There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the predominant People in ancient Canaan/Israel for 1,000 years until the Roman conquest.
> 
> Jews are the only People to survive 3000 continual years in Israel.
> 
> Jews are the only People to have had a nation in Canaan/Israel.
> 
> So-called Palestinians didn't even exist before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What page of Israel's bullshit manual is that on?
Click to expand...


I didn't think you could dispute me.  I'm not disappointed.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.



*Cambridge University Press [Cambridge University]: "The World of Ancient Israel"*
The World of Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were the predominant People in ancient Canaan/Israel for 1,000 years until the Roman conquest.
> 
> Jews are the only People to survive 3000 continual years in Israel.
> 
> Jews are the only People to have had a nation in Canaan/Israel.
> 
> So-called Palestinians didn't even exist before 1967.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What page of Israel's bullshit manual is that on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't think you could dispute me.  I'm not disappointed.
Click to expand...




> So-called Palestinians didn't even exist before 1967.



No problem. I already posted a photo of a Palestinian flag flying in Jaffa in 1937. You must have missed it.

The PLO (*Palestine *Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964. I believe that was *before* 1967. The PLO was formed by groups of Palestinians that were active in the 1950s.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> What page of Israel's bullshit manual is that on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't think you could dispute me.  I'm not disappointed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So-called Palestinians didn't even exist before 1967.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No problem. I already posted a photo of a Palestinian flag flying in Jaffa in 1937. You must have missed it.
> 
> The PLO (*Palestine *Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964. I believe that was *before* 1967. The PLO was formed by groups of Palestinians that were active in the 1950s.
Click to expand...


Jews were known as Palestinians during the British Mandate, 1918--1948.  Arabs didn't want to be associated with the Jews and did not call themselves Palestinians until 1967.

Palestine didn't even exist prior to World War I during 400 years of Ottoman rule, when the British named the land Palestine.

Palestine is an English word, not an Arabic, Hebrew or Semitic language. 

The Arabs stole the flag of Jordan, so, there's really no Palestinian flag.

Cambridge University Press...


> In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.



Palestine Boundaries 1833&#8211;1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't think you could dispute me.  I'm not disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No problem. I already posted a photo of a Palestinian flag flying in Jaffa in 1937. You must have missed it.
> 
> The PLO (*Palestine *Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964. I believe that was *before* 1967. The PLO was formed by groups of Palestinians that were active in the 1950s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews were known as Palestinians during the British Mandate, 1918--1948.  Arabs didn't want to be associated with the Jews and did not call themselves Palestinians until 1967.
> 
> Palestine didn't even exist prior to World War I during 400 years of Ottoman rule, when the British named the land Palestine.
> 
> Palestine is an English word, not an Arabic, Hebrew or Semitic language.
> 
> The Arabs stole the flag of Jordan, so, there's really no Palestinian flag.
> 
> Cambridge University Press...
> 
> 
> 
> In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine Boundaries 18331947 - Cambridge Archive Editions
Click to expand...


Relevance?


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No problem. I already posted a photo of a Palestinian flag flying in Jaffa in 1937. You must have missed it.
> 
> The PLO (*Palestine *Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964. I believe that was *before* 1967. The PLO was formed by groups of Palestinians that were active in the 1950s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were known as Palestinians during the British Mandate, 1918--1948.  Arabs didn't want to be associated with the Jews and did not call themselves Palestinians until 1967.
> 
> Palestine didn't even exist prior to World War I during 400 years of Ottoman rule, when the British named the land Palestine.
> 
> Palestine is an English word, not an Arabic, Hebrew or Semitic language.
> 
> The Arabs stole the flag of Jordan, so, there's really no Palestinian flag.
> 
> Cambridge University Press...
> 
> 
> 
> In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine Boundaries 18331947 - Cambridge Archive Editions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Relevance?
Click to expand...


I just shredded your nonsense about your mythical land of "Palestine"


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> The PLO (*Palestine *Liberation Organization) was formed in 1964. I believe that was *before* 1967. The PLO was formed by groups of Palestinians that were active in the 1950s.



In 1964, Arabs in the West Bank were Jordanian and those in Gaza were Egyptian.

In the aftermath of the '67 war, Arabs began calling themselves Palestinians.

In earlier years, Arabs bitterly denied the existence of Palestine for fear it represented a Western device to sever Syria, of which "Palestine" was part.

Philip Hitti, Arab historian, advisor to the Arab delegation which established the United Nations representing  the Institute of Arab American Affairs testifying before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946...


> The Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us, becauseby smearing the walls of the rooms with maps of Palestine, they areassociating it in the mind of the average American--and I may say perhaps the Englishman too---with the Jews. *Sir, there is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not*.


Hearing before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, Washington D.C., State Department, Jan. 11, 1946, Central Zionist Archive (Jerusalem),  p. 6.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jews were known as Palestinians during the British Mandate, 1918--1948.  Arabs didn't want to be associated with the Jews and did not call themselves Palestinians until 1967.
> 
> Palestine didn't even exist prior to World War I during 400 years of Ottoman rule, when the British named the land Palestine.
> 
> Palestine is an English word, not an Arabic, Hebrew or Semitic language.
> 
> The Arabs stole the flag of Jordan, so, there's really no Palestinian flag.
> 
> Cambridge University Press...
> 
> Palestine Boundaries 1833&#8211;1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just shredded your nonsense about your mythical land of "Palestine"
Click to expand...


1911
Feb.: Palestinian newspaper "Filastin" begins addressing its readers as "Palestinians" and it warns them about consequences of Zionist colonisation.

http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/chronology/14001962.htm


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just shredded your nonsense about your mythical land of "Palestine"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1911
> Feb.: Palestinian newspaper "Filastin" begins addressing its readers as "Palestinians" and it warns them about consequences of Zionist colonisation.
> 
> 1400 - 1962
Click to expand...


LOL  Filastin is just the Arabic pronunciation of Palestine---There is no letter p in Arabic.

Palestine is an English word created by the British after WW I.  Before that time, no Palestine.

The correct historical name of the land is Israel for the past 3000 years.

*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel*
The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum


----------



## abu afak

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Relevance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just shredded your nonsense about your mythical land of "Palestine"  :theclap2:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1911
> Feb.: Palestinian newspaper "Filastin" begins addressing its readers as "Palestinians" and it warns them about consequences of Zionist colonisation.
> 
> 1400 - 1962
Click to expand...

Did that include 'Jordanians'/Jordanian Palestinians who got 77% of the Mandate?


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just shredded your nonsense about your mythical land of "Palestine"  :theclap2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1911
> Feb.: Palestinian newspaper "Filastin" begins addressing its readers as "Palestinians" and it warns them about consequences of Zionist colonisation.
> 
> 1400 - 1962
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did that include 'Jordanians'/Jordanian Palestinians who got 77% of the Mandate?
Click to expand...


A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1911
> Feb.: Palestinian newspaper "Filastin" begins addressing its readers as "Palestinians" and it warns them about consequences of Zionist colonisation.
> 
> 1400 - 1962
> 
> 
> 
> Did that include 'Jordanians'/Jordanian Palestinians who got 77% of the Mandate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


The League of Nations established borders for the "Jewish National Home" in "Palestine" roughly equivalent to those specified in the Hebrew Bible, from the Galilee to the Negev, from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea.

The League of Nations created Syria, Lebanon and Jordan as homelands for the Arabs in the Levant


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did that include 'Jordanians'/Jordanian Palestinians who got 77% of the Mandate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The League of Nations established borders for the "Jewish National Home" in "Palestine" roughly equivalent to those specified in the Hebrew Bible, from the Galilee to the Negev, from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea.
> 
> The League of Nations created Syria, Lebanon and Jordan as homelands for the Arabs in the Levant
Click to expand...


The Jewish National home was not to be a Jewish state. It was to assist the Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship in Palestine.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The League of Nations established borders for the "Jewish National Home" in "Palestine" roughly equivalent to those specified in the Hebrew Bible, from the Galilee to the Negev, from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea.
> 
> The League of Nations created Syria, Lebanon and Jordan as homelands for the Arabs in the Levant
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jewish National home was not to be a Jewish state. It was to assist the Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship in Palestine.
Click to expand...


False.  Woodrow Wilson, who founded the League of Nations, has stated the intent for a Jewish state...


> I am persuaded that the Allied nations, with the fullest concurrence of our own government and people, are agreed that in Palestine shall be laid the foundation of a Jewish Commonwealth [1919]


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> The League of Nations established borders for the "Jewish National Home" in "Palestine" roughly equivalent to those specified in the Hebrew Bible, from the Galilee to the Negev, from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea.
> 
> The League of Nations created Syria, Lebanon and Jordan as homelands for the Arabs in the Levant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish National home was not to be a Jewish state. It was to assist the Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False.  Woodrow Wilson, who founded the League of Nations, has stated the intent for a Jewish state...
> 
> 
> 
> I am persuaded that the Allied nations, with the fullest concurrence of our own government and people, are agreed that in Palestine shall be laid the foundation of a Jewish Commonwealth [1919]
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Wilson was a foreigner who had no legitimate say in the status of Palestine.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish National home was not to be a Jewish state. It was to assist the Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> False.  Woodrow Wilson, who founded the League of Nations, has stated the intent for a Jewish state...
> 
> 
> 
> I am persuaded that the Allied nations, with the fullest concurrence of our own government and people, are agreed that in Palestine shall be laid the foundation of a Jewish Commonwealth [1919]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wilson was a foreigner who had no legitimate say in the status of Palestine.
Click to expand...


The Allies liberated "Palestine" from the Ottoman Turks in WW I and obtained sovereignty over the land when the Turks forfeited it.  They had every right.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> False.  Woodrow Wilson, who founded the League of Nations, has stated the intent for a Jewish state...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson was a foreigner who had no legitimate say in the status of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Allies liberated "Palestine" from the Ottoman Turks in WW I and obtained sovereignty over the land when the Turks forfeited it.  They had every right.
Click to expand...


The British Palestine Mandate was merely an administrative position. It did not follow the League of Nations charter starting a war that has lasted a hundred years.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wilson was a foreigner who had no legitimate say in the status of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Allies liberated "Palestine" from the Ottoman Turks in WW I and obtained sovereignty over the land when the Turks forfeited it.  They had every right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The British Palestine Mandate was merely an administrative position. It did not follow the League of Nations charter starting a war that has lasted a hundred years.
Click to expand...


Pay attention, champ---Had the Allies not liberated the Ottoman Empire, there would be no "Palestine"  There would be no independent Arab countries.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Allies liberated "Palestine" from the Ottoman Turks in WW I and obtained sovereignty over the land when the Turks forfeited it.  They had every right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine Mandate was merely an administrative position. It did not follow the League of Nations charter starting a war that has lasted a hundred years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay attention, champ---Had the Allies not liberated the Ottoman Empire, there would be no "Palestine"  There would be no independent Arab countries.
Click to expand...


The mandate was to assist the inhabitants in creating a government for an independent state. The world's criminal class violated that basic internationally recognized right.

Israel has political recognition but it has no legal standing.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine Mandate was merely an administrative position. It did not follow the League of Nations charter starting a war that has lasted a hundred years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention, champ---Had the Allies not liberated the Ottoman Empire, there would be no "Palestine"  There would be no independent Arab countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The mandate was to assist the inhabitants in creating a government for an independent state. The world's criminal class violated that basic internationally recognized right.
> 
> Israel has political recognition but it has no legal standing.
Click to expand...


Wrong, champ.

Winston Churchill, Colonial Secretary of Palestine...


> The conception of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was undoubtedly that if the absorptive capacity over a number of years and the breeding over a number of years, all guided by the British government, gave an increasing Jewish population, that population should not in any way be restricted from reaching a majority position. Certainly, we committed ourselves to the idea that some day, there might well be a great Jewish State there, numbered by millions.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention, champ---Had the Allies not liberated the Ottoman Empire, there would be no "Palestine"  There would be no independent Arab countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mandate was to assist the inhabitants in creating a government for an independent state. The world's criminal class violated that basic internationally recognized right.
> 
> Israel has political recognition but it has no legal standing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong, champ.
> 
> Winston Churchill, Colonial Secretary of Palestine...
> 
> 
> 
> The conception of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was undoubtedly that if the absorptive capacity over a number of years and the breeding over a number of years, all guided by the British government, gave an increasing Jewish population, that population should not in any way be restricted from reaching a majority position. Certainly, we committed ourselves to the idea that some day, there might well be a great Jewish State there, numbered by millions.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




> Winston Churchill, *Colonial* Secretary of Palestine...



Israel is a foreign colonial project violating the internationally recognized rights of the Palestinian's self determination. This is the part of the League of Nations charter that they violated. Israel is an illegal enterprise.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mandate was to assist the inhabitants in creating a government for an independent state. The world's criminal class violated that basic internationally recognized right.
> 
> Israel has political recognition but it has no legal standing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, champ.
> 
> Winston Churchill, Colonial Secretary of Palestine...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Winston Churchill, *Colonial* Secretary of Palestine...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial project violating the internationally recognized rights of the Palestinian's self determination. This is the part of the League of Nations charter that they violated. Israel is an illegal enterprise.
Click to expand...


Wrong, again.  Israel existed as a sovereign state 3000 years ago, verified by the archaeological record: Tel Zayit stone containing ancient Hebrew alphabet, ca. 1000 BC
Zayit Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

You got any evidence of an ancient Palestinian presence in Israel?  No, I didn't think so


----------



## idb

> Joel 3:1-4 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink. Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompense? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompense upon your own head;


The Bible and Palestine

I assume this is right...I forgot to go to Sunday School that day I think.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, champ.
> 
> Winston Churchill, Colonial Secretary of Palestine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Winston Churchill, *Colonial* Secretary of Palestine...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial project violating the internationally recognized rights of the Palestinian's self determination. This is the part of the League of Nations charter that they violated. Israel is an illegal enterprise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong, again.  Israel existed as a sovereign state 3000 years ago, verified by the archaeological record: Tel Zayit stone containing ancient Hebrew alphabet, ca. 1000 BC
> Zayit Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You got any evidence of an ancient Palestinian presence in Israel?  No, I didn't think so
Click to expand...


Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times"

Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## idb

abu afak said:


> "Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda...
> As has been noted many times before, *prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis,
> the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews,* with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.
> - David Basch
> 
> 
> "...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. *They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," *while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
> The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
> It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
> Far better to Invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," -
> a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."
> - westerndefense.org
> 
> 
> "There is NO language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
> *There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
> Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)*, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
> Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
> But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness.
> No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""
> - Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist
> 
> 
> So before the creation of the State of Israel, who were the Palestinians?
> ANSWER:
> Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST;
> the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE;
> Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK;
> the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY;
> there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and.... the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC.
> *All these were JEWISH organizations. *
> In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG"
> In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions.
> "Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine.
> *The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a Recent phenomenon.
> Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another Decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.*
> - 'Palestinians' - The Peace FAQ
> -
> -



So, presumably, it was OK for the Jews to acknowledge the existence of Palestinians until they didn't want to call themselves that anymore?
Suddenly, when they prefer to call themselves 'Israelis', there is no such thing as a Palestinian.
Is that right?


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial project violating the internationally recognized rights of the Palestinian's self determination. This is the part of the League of Nations charter that they violated. Israel is an illegal enterprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, again.  Israel existed as a sovereign state 3000 years ago, verified by the archaeological record: Tel Zayit stone containing ancient Hebrew alphabet, ca. 1000 BC
> Zayit Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You got any evidence of an ancient Palestinian presence in Israel?  No, I didn't think so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times"
> 
> Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


You have any archaeological evidence for Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago, champ?
No, I didn't think so.

Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE...http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=347


----------



## P F Tinmore

idb said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda...
> As has been noted many times before, *prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis,
> the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews,* with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.
> - David Basch
> 
> 
> "...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. *They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," *while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
> The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
> It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
> Far better to Invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," -
> a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."
> - westerndefense.org
> 
> 
> "There is NO language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
> *There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
> Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)*, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
> Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
> But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness.
> No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""
> - Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist
> 
> 
> So before the creation of the State of Israel, who were the Palestinians?
> ANSWER:
> Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST;
> the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE;
> Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK;
> the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY;
> there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and.... the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC.
> *All these were JEWISH organizations. *
> In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG"
> In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions.
> "Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine.
> *The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a Recent phenomenon.
> Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another Decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.*
> - 'Palestinians' - The Peace FAQ
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, presumably, it was OK for the Jews to acknowledge the existence of Palestinians until they didn't want to call themselves that anymore?
> Suddenly, when they prefer to call themselves 'Israelis', there is no such thing as a Palestinian.
> Is that right?
Click to expand...


It is part of Israel's name game. Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians. The Palestinians are the people of the place. The name does not matter.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, again.  Israel existed as a sovereign state 3000 years ago, verified by the archaeological record: Tel Zayit stone containing ancient Hebrew alphabet, ca. 1000 BC
> Zayit Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You got any evidence of an ancient Palestinian presence in Israel?  No, I didn't think so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times"
> 
> Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence for Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago, champ?
> No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE...http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=347
Click to expand...


Do you have any proof that Israelites were the *only* people there 3000 years ago?

I didn't think so.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times"
> 
> Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence for Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago, champ?
> No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE...http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=347
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof that Israelites were the *only* people there 3000 years ago?
> 
> I didn't think so.
Click to expand...


You have any archaeological evidence Palestinians existed in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.

Ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=349


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence for Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago, champ?
> No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE...http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=347
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof that Israelites were the *only* people there 3000 years ago?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Palestinians existed in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=349
Click to expand...


Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times"

Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You seemed to have missed it the first time. What do you want? A cave drawing that says "Palestine" on it?


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times"
> 
> Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence for Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago, champ?
> No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE...http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=347
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof that Israelites were the *only* people there 3000 years ago?
> 
> I didn't think so.
Click to expand...


The archaeological record verifies King David, who presided over the ancient Israelite Davidic Kingdom ca. 3000 years ago, existed:  Tel Dan Stele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

Can you provide archaeological evidence of any Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof that Israelites were the *only* people there 3000 years ago?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Palestinians existed in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=349
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times"
> 
> Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You seemed to have missed it the first time. What do you want? A cave drawing that says "Palestine" on it?
Click to expand...


Ancient Israelite artifact, ca 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=70&indicator=9 

You have any archaeological evidence Palestinians existed in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence for Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago, champ?
> No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE...http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=347
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof that Israelites were the *only* people there 3000 years ago?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The archaeological record verifies King David, who presided over the ancient Israelite Davidic Kingdom ca. 3000 years ago, existed:  Tel Dan Stele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Can you provide archaeological evidence of any Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so
Click to expand...


You still have not provided any proof that the Israelis were the *only* people there at that time.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any proof that Israelites were the *only* people there 3000 years ago?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The archaeological record verifies King David, who presided over the ancient Israelite Davidic Kingdom ca. 3000 years ago, existed:  Tel Dan Stele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Can you provide archaeological evidence of any Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You still have not provided any proof that the Israelis were the *only* people there at that time.
Click to expand...


The archaeological record verifies the existence of King David's Monarchy, which controlled Israel 3000 years ago.

Eminent archaeologist William Dever...


> In 1993 an inscription was found at Tel Dan. It mentions a dynasty of David. And on the Mesha stone found in the last century in Moab there is also a probable reference to David. So there is textual evidence outside the Bible for these kings of the United Monarchy, at least David.


 

You have any archaeological evidence of Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> The archaeological record verifies King David, who presided over the ancient Israelite Davidic Kingdom ca. 3000 years ago, existed:  Tel Dan Stele - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Can you provide archaeological evidence of any Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still have not provided any proof that the Israelis were the *only* people there at that time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The archaeological record verifies the existence of King David's Monarchy, which controlled Israel 3000 years ago.
> 
> Eminent archaeologist William Dever...
> 
> 
> 
> In 1993 an inscription was found at Tel Dan. It mentions a dynasty of David. And on the Mesha stone found in the last century in Moab there is also a probable reference to David. So there is textual evidence outside the Bible for these kings of the United Monarchy, at least David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence of Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.
Click to expand...


I am not arguing that point. You claim that there were no Palestinians there 3000 years ago.

You have failed to post anything to back up that claim. I posted evidence that they have been there since the beginning of time.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You still have not provided any proof that the Israelis were the *only* people there at that time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The archaeological record verifies the existence of King David's Monarchy, which controlled Israel 3000 years ago.
> 
> Eminent archaeologist William Dever...
> 
> 
> 
> In 1993 an inscription was found at Tel Dan. It mentions a dynasty of David. And on the Mesha stone found in the last century in Moab there is also a probable reference to David. So there is textual evidence outside the Bible for these kings of the United Monarchy, at least David.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence of Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not arguing that point. You claim that there were no Palestinians there 3000 years ago.
> 
> You have failed to post anything to back up that claim. I posted evidence that they have been there since the beginning of time.
Click to expand...


Still waiting for direct archaeological evidence for Palestinians in ancient Israel.  Don't keep us waiting forever.  You're looking very foolish.   

Ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=384


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> The archaeological record verifies the existence of King David's Monarchy, which controlled Israel 3000 years ago.
> 
> Eminent archaeologist William Dever...
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence of Palestinian kings and kingdoms in Israel 3000 years ago?  No, I didn't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not arguing that point. You claim that there were no Palestinians there 3000 years ago.
> 
> You have failed to post anything to back up that claim. I posted evidence that they have been there since the beginning of time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still waiting for direct archaeological evidence for Palestinians in ancient Israel.  Don't keep us waiting forever.  You're looking very foolish.
> 
> Ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=384
Click to expand...


You post nothing and say I look foolish?


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not arguing that point. You claim that there were no Palestinians there 3000 years ago.
> 
> You have failed to post anything to back up that claim. I posted evidence that they have been there since the beginning of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for direct archaeological evidence for Palestinians in ancient Israel.  Don't keep us waiting forever.  You're looking very foolish.
> 
> Ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=384
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You post nothing and say I look foolish?
Click to expand...


Another ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=383 

You have any archaeological evidence of Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago.  No, I didn't think so


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for direct archaeological evidence for Palestinians in ancient Israel.  Don't keep us waiting forever.  You're looking very foolish.
> 
> Ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=384
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You post nothing and say I look foolish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=383
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence of Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago.  No, I didn't think so
Click to expand...


You consistently duck the question.

Good night.


----------



## JStone

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> You post nothing and say I look foolish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another ancient Israelite artifact, ca. 1000 BCE: http://www.antiquities.org.il/t/item_en.aspx?CurrentPageKey=383
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence of Palestinians in Israel 3000 years ago.  No, I didn't think so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You consistently duck the question.
> 
> Good night.
Click to expand...


You lost the debate a long time ago.  Good idea to run and hide, jackass.


----------



## idb

> Hatshepsut was the daughter of Pharaoh Thutmose I (a.k.a. Thutmosis) of XVIII th Dynasty during the New Kingdom, Egypt's Golden Age. Her reign was in ca. 1490 - 1468 B.C..............In the twenty-one years that Hatshepsut ruled, there were no great military campaigns. Egypt's armies did not conquer new lands as it had under her father Thutmose I. He had conquered Palestine and lands as far north as the Euphrates River and south into Nubia.


Queen Hatshepsut



> king of ancient Egypt (Egypt, ancient) (reigned c. 153914 BCE) and founder of the 18th dynasty (Egypt, ancient) who completed the expulsion of the Hyksos (Asiatic rulers of Egypt), invaded Palestine, and re-exerted Egypt's hegemony over northern Nubia, to the south.


Ahmose I



> With the Rohl chronology, the Amarna period is contemporary with the United Monarchy (195-231). The political landscape described in the Amarna Letters , however, is much different that that during the United Monarchy. In the Amarna period, Canaan was dominated by many independent city-states in vassalage to Egypt, along with the troublesome Apiru. Palestine in the United Monarchy period , with the exception of Philistia, was politically united under one king, with the chief adversary during the reigns of Saul and David being the Philistines.


David Rohl's Revised Egyptian Chronology: A View From Palestine


----------



## JStone

idb said:


> Hatshepsut was the daughter of Pharaoh Thutmose I (a.k.a. Thutmosis) of XVIII th Dynasty during the New Kingdom, Egypt's Golden Age. Her reign was in ca. 1490 - 1468 B.C..............In the twenty-one years that Hatshepsut ruled, there were no great military campaigns. Egypt's armies did not conquer new lands as it had under her father Thutmose I. He had conquered Palestine and lands as far north as the Euphrates River and south into Nubia.
> 
> 
> 
> Queen Hatshepsut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> king of ancient Egypt (Egypt, ancient) (reigned c. 1539&#8211;14 BCE) and founder of the 18th dynasty (Egypt, ancient) who completed the expulsion of the Hyksos (Asiatic rulers of Egypt), invaded Palestine, and re-exerted Egypt's hegemony over northern Nubia, to the south.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahmose I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the Rohl chronology, the Amarna period is contemporary with the United Monarchy (195-231). The political landscape described in the Amarna Letters , however, is much different that that during the United Monarchy. In the Amarna period, Canaan was dominated by many independent city-states in vassalage to Egypt, along with the troublesome Apiru. Palestine in the United Monarchy period , with the exception of Philistia, was politically united under one king, with the chief adversary during the reigns of Saul and David being the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> David Rohl's Revised Egyptian Chronology: A View From Palestine
Click to expand...


The Amarna Tablets preceded the establishment of the Davidic Kingdom, which controlled Israel, by 300 years, during which time came the disappearance of the Canaanites, Jebusites, Amalekites, Hittites and other tribes in Canaan which eventuated into the Kingdom of Israel.

the Israelites remained the predominant People in Israel until the Roman conquest 1000 years later.  The Israelites were the only nation ever established in Canaan/Israel


----------



## Jos

In sixty years time people will look back at the country that was once called "Israel"


----------



## idb

JStone said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hatshepsut was the daughter of Pharaoh Thutmose I (a.k.a. Thutmosis) of XVIII th Dynasty during the New Kingdom, Egypt's Golden Age. Her reign was in ca. 1490 - 1468 B.C..............In the twenty-one years that Hatshepsut ruled, there were no great military campaigns. Egypt's armies did not conquer new lands as it had under her father Thutmose I. He had conquered Palestine and lands as far north as the Euphrates River and south into Nubia.
> 
> 
> 
> Queen Hatshepsut
> 
> 
> Ahmose I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the Rohl chronology, the Amarna period is contemporary with the United Monarchy (195-231). The political landscape described in the Amarna Letters , however, is much different that that during the United Monarchy. In the Amarna period, Canaan was dominated by many independent city-states in vassalage to Egypt, along with the troublesome Apiru. Palestine in the United Monarchy period , with the exception of Philistia, was politically united under one king, with the chief adversary during the reigns of Saul and David being the Philistines.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> David Rohl's Revised Egyptian Chronology: A View From Palestine
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Amarna Tablets preceded the establishment of the Davidic Kingdom, which controlled Israel, by 300 years, during which time came the disappearance of the Canaanites, Jebusites, Amalekites, Hittites and other tribes in Canaan which eventuated into the Kingdom of Israel.
> 
> the Israelites remained the predominant People in Israel until the Roman conquest 1000 years later.  The Israelites were the only nation ever established in Canaan/Israel
Click to expand...


Meaning that the Palestinians preceded the Israelis - I presume that's your point?


----------



## docmauser1

Jos said:


> _In sixty years time people will look back at the country that was once called "Israel"_


So much hate!


----------



## docmauser1

idb said:


> _Meaning that the Palestinians preceded the Israelis_


If the former abuse some potent stuff, they certainly may come to that state, indeed.


----------



## abu afak

Jos said:


> In sixty years time people will look back at the country that was once called "Israel"


But alas for you, and miraculously, People look back and marvel that it is Israel Again.

The Only people ever to make anything of the land, twice, in 3000+ years.

-
-


----------



## JStone

> Quote: Originally Posted by Jos
> In sixty years time people will look back at the country that was once called "Israel"



Shouldn't you be taking a siesta or slaughtering a bull, lazy, backward Spaniard?

Bill Gates, Chairman, Microsoft
I'd say that the quality of education is one of the key factors
that's made Israel so unique and the great companies and partners we have here 

Safra Catz, President, Oracle [3rd largest software company in the world] 
Israel is an incredible source of entrepreneurship and brilliant ideas  Many of the companies that grow in Israel become global players and if we can start with them early, as they grow globally they can become some of the most powerful companies in the world

Richard Lampman, Senior Vice President of Research and Director of HP Labs
What we have here in Israel are really masters of image science and informatoin theory, the whole concept of how we manipulate information for greater efficiency   This is a cutting-edge community. If you look around the world,  many countries that you visit you feel like they're a few steps behind the cutting-edge---When you come to Israel, you feel like youre right there

Stephen Bolze, President & CEO, GE Healthcare Technologies Worldwide [$14 billion]
GE is committed to technology innovation around the world and one of the high tech centers of the world we see is in Israel

What sets it apart is the spirit of the people and the commitment to inovation.  We're going to continue to invest there because the opportunities that we see will help us grow our business around the world

Promod Haque, Managing Partner, Norwest Venture Partners
The whole ecosystem of high technology is very well-developed in Israel
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5pJELgG9yk]&#x202a;INVEST In Israel&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos

No today is Tuesday, I'm off to watch  "The running of the Jew"
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Q2MBhHHxw]&#x202a;Borat - The Running of the Jew&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## docmauser1

Jos said:


> _No today is Tuesday, I'm off to watch  "The running of the Jew"_


An arab-muslim escapist high?


----------



## abu afak

A Palestinian "refugee", according to the UNRWA definition everyone today does use, is anyone who lived in Palestine for 2 years consecutively prior to 1948.

IOW, many Arab Migrant workers are considered "refugees", "Palestinians."
Imagine if you will, by the same standard, the 400,000 'Palestinians' Kicked out of Kuwait aftre Gulf War 1, would be considered "Kuwaiti refugees" and entitled... to anything.

Only on Israel would they try and pull this shit.
-
-


----------



## Monnagonna

abu afak said:


> A Palestinian "refugee", according to the UNRWA definition everyone today does use, is anyone who lived in Palestine for 2 years consecutively prior to 1948.
> 
> IOW, many Arab Migrant workers are considered "refugees", "Palestinians."
> Imagine if you will, by the same standard, the 400,000 'Palestinians' Kicked out of Kuwait aftre Gulf War 1, would be considered "Kuwaiti refugees" and entitled... to anything.
> 
> Only on Israel would they try and pull this shit.
> -
> -



abu, why didn't you guys just PAY the Palestinians for their land? Isn't that what's usually done in a democracy?


----------



## jillian

Monnagonna said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian "refugee", according to the UNRWA definition everyone today does use, is anyone who lived in Palestine for 2 years consecutively prior to 1948.
> 
> IOW, many Arab Migrant workers are considered "refugees", "Palestinians."
> Imagine if you will, by the same standard, the 400,000 'Palestinians' Kicked out of Kuwait aftre Gulf War 1, would be considered "Kuwaiti refugees" and entitled... to anything.
> 
> Only on Israel would they try and pull this shit.
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu, why didn't you guys just PAY the Palestinians for their land? Isn't that what's usually done in a democracy?
Click to expand...


why would they?

the pals are jordanian. but jordan doesn't want them either.

ignorant twit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

jillian said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian "refugee", according to the UNRWA definition everyone today does use, is anyone who lived in Palestine for 2 years consecutively prior to 1948.
> 
> IOW, many Arab Migrant workers are considered "refugees", "Palestinians."
> Imagine if you will, by the same standard, the 400,000 'Palestinians' Kicked out of Kuwait aftre Gulf War 1, would be considered "Kuwaiti refugees" and entitled... to anything.
> 
> Only on Israel would they try and pull this shit.
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu, why didn't you guys just PAY the Palestinians for their land? Isn't that what's usually done in a democracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would they?
> 
> the pals are jordanian. but jordan doesn't want them either.
> 
> ignorant twit.
Click to expand...


What about all the Palestinians who have never been to Jordan?


----------



## Monnagonna

jillian said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Palestinian "refugee", according to the UNRWA definition everyone today does use, is anyone who lived in Palestine for 2 years consecutively prior to 1948.
> 
> IOW, many Arab Migrant workers are considered "refugees", "Palestinians."
> Imagine if you will, by the same standard, the 400,000 'Palestinians' Kicked out of Kuwait aftre Gulf War 1, would be considered "Kuwaiti refugees" and entitled... to anything.
> 
> Only on Israel would they try and pull this shit.
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu, why didn't you guys just PAY the Palestinians for their land? Isn't that what's usually done in a democracy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would they?
> 
> the pals are jordanian. but jordan doesn't want them either.
> 
> ignorant twit.
Click to expand...


Jillian, am I talking too fast for ya?

I'm saying: why didn't/don't they just buy the land from each individual arab who had a house or land in what is now Israel? That's what we do in democracies, we buy each others property.


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> In sixty years time people will look back at the country that was once called "Israel"
> 
> 
> 
> But alas for you, and miraculously, People look back and marvel that it is Israel Again.
> 
> The Only people ever to make anything of the land, twice, in 3000+ years.
> 
> -
> -
Click to expand...


Not so. Palestine was self sufficient before Israel invaded.

Now we have two countries on welfare.

*Good plan!*


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _What about all the Palestinians who have never been to Jordan?_


Indeed, Jordan hasn't been the only place those major immigrants came from, there're other countries in the hood, like Egypt, Syria, even Algeria, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _Not so. Palestine was self sufficient before Israel invaded._


That and other arab delusions, of course.


----------



## docmauser1

Monnagonna said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> _A Palestinian "refugee", according to the UNRWA definition everyone today does use, is anyone who lived in Palestine for 2 years consecutively prior to 1948. IOW, many Arab Migrant workers are considered "refugees", "Palestinians." Imagine if you will, by the same standard, the 400,000 'Palestinians' Kicked out of Kuwait aftre Gulf War 1, would be considered "Kuwaiti refugees" and entitled... to anything. Only on Israel would they try and pull this shit._
> 
> 
> 
> _abu, why didn't you guys just PAY the Palestinians for their land?_The problem is palistanians had to exist and to "own land" in the first place.
Click to expand...


----------



## abu afak

docmauser1 said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> _A Palestinian "refugee", according to the UNRWA definition everyone today does use, is anyone who lived in Palestine for 2 years consecutively prior to 1948. IOW, many Arab Migrant workers are considered "refugees", "Palestinians." Imagine if you will, by the same standard, the 400,000 'Palestinians' Kicked out of Kuwait aftre Gulf War 1, would be considered "Kuwaiti refugees" and entitled... to anything. Only on Israel would they try and pull this shit._
> 
> 
> 
> _abu, why didn't you guys just PAY the Palestinians for their land?[size]_
> [size="]The problem is palistanians had to exist and to "own land" in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First, I am an America. "You guys" does NOT apply.
> 
> Second... THAT is what DID happen.
> Land prices in arid palestine in the early 20th century were selling for 10x what GOOD land in Iowa was selling for because of Zionist demand.
> Many arabs to this day are Forbidden from selling to Jews under threat of Death.
> 
> And you Need to read my other string:
> *http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/105824-myth-1-israel-is-stolen-land.html *
> You know, the one YOU posted in a few hours ago.
> 
> 2/3 of what became Israel was STATE land belong to NO arab; passing from the Ottomans to the British to the Jews.
> And they bought some of the Rest they hadn't already purchased back into the 19th century.
> The Bulk of Arab land/land owners were Very large and Absentee. You didn't live in Stinking Palestine if you had any moola. You/they lived in Cairo, Damascus, Beirut.
> 
> Most of the Balance coming after Arab abandonment/Losing the 1948 (and 1967) WarS to wipe out Israel and the Jews in it.
> They could have/Intended To win, and claim the spoils/All the Jewish land and property.
> But they lost. War is a two-sided gamble. No "Do overs".
> Some stayed and are still land-owning citizens of Israel.
> 
> *This all Rehash because you haven't read what's already been presented on a silver platter in the above linked string and others.*
> -
> -
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> abu, why didn't you guys just PAY the Palestinians for their land?[size][/i]
> [size="]The problem is palistanians had to exist and to "own land" in the first place.[/size]
> 
> 
> 
> First, I am an America. "You guys" does NOT apply.
> 
> Second... THAT is what DID happen.
> Land prices in arid palestine in the early 20th century were selling for 10x what GOOD land in Iowa was selling for because of Zionist demand.
> Many arabs to this day are Forbidden from selling to Jews under threat of Death.
> 
> And you Need to read my other string:
> *http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/105824-myth-1-israel-is-stolen-land.html *
> You know, the one YOU posted in a few hours ago.
> 
> 2/3 of what became Israel was STATE land belong to NO arab; passing from the Ottomans to the British to the Jews.
> And they bought some of the Rest they hadn't already purchased back into the 19th century.
> The Bulk of Arab land/land owners were Very large and Absentee. You didn't live in Stinking Palestine if you had any moola. You/they lived in Cairo, Damascus, Beirut.
> 
> Most of the Balance coming after Arab abandonment/Losing the 1948 (and 1967) WarS to wipe out Israel and the Jews in it.
> They could have/Intended To win, and claim the spoils/All the Jewish land and property.
> But they lost. War is a two-sided gamble. No "Do overs".
> Some stayed and are still land-owning citizens of Israel.
> 
> *This all Rehash because you haven't read what's already been presented on a silver platter in the above linked string and others.*
> -
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Several inaccuracies here.
> 
> By 1947 the Jews only owned about 7% of the land.
> 
> Britain Administered Palestine. It did not take possession. Ottoman land was ceded to the government of Palestine.
> 
> No "Arab" country lost the 1948 war. No "Arab" country lost any land.
Click to expand...


----------



## abu afak

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, I am an America. "You guys" does NOT apply.
> 
> Second... THAT is what DID happen.
> Land prices in arid palestine in the early 20th century were selling for 10x what GOOD land in Iowa was selling for because of Zionist demand.
> Many arabs to this day are Forbidden from selling to Jews under threat of Death.
> 
> And you Need to read my other string:
> *http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/105824-myth-1-israel-is-stolen-land.html *
> You know, the one YOU posted in a few hours ago.
> 
> 2/3 of what became Israel was STATE land belong to NO arab; passing from the Ottomans to the British to the Jews.
> And they bought some of the Rest they hadn't already purchased back into the 19th century.
> The Bulk of Arab land/land owners were Very large and Absentee. You didn't live in Stinking Palestine if you had any moola. You/they lived in Cairo, Damascus, Beirut.
> 
> Most of the Balance coming after Arab abandonment/Losing the 1948 (and 1967) WarS to wipe out Israel and the Jews in it.
> They could have/Intended To win, and claim the spoils/All the Jewish land and property.
> But they lost. War is a two-sided gamble. No "Do overs".
> Some stayed and are still land-owning citizens of Israel.
> 
> *This all Rehash because you haven't read what's already been presented on a silver platter in the above linked string and others.*
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several inaccuracies here.
> 
> By 1947 the Jews only owned about 7% of the land.
> 
> Britain Administered Palestine. It did not take possession. Ottoman land was ceded to the government of Palestine.
> 
> No "Arab" country lost the 1948 war. No "Arab" country lost any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you a LIAR, Persistent Anti-semite..  or Just STUPID?
> NO "Inaccuracies".
> There was no/Never an Arab Govt of Palestine.. Only British Run Palestine
> Arab CountrieS STARTED AND LOST the War to Block the Partition of Palestine (Res 181) and try and Take all of it.
> The Arabs, local and otherwise, REJECTED the partition and any land thereof.
> The Jews accepted it and The land within.. thereof.
> Israel Was about 2/3 State Land.
> You don't deny this- just make Irrelevant Other claims and inferences because you Cannot debate ON point.
> 
> As to %..
> WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS Recently:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...-the-zionists-on-palestine-4.html#post3850064
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CitizenPained said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> *By 1947, The Jews only owned about 7% of Palestine.* It could hardly be said that the land was bought. Vere little of it was bought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who owned the rest, Tin Man? Did the Muslims, Christians, Druze, Bedouin - did they have land titles? Hmmm? Uh...no.
> 
> But what about East J'lem? The Jews were expelled after the war. Can we agree its ours now? Are you OK with the fact that the British started to restrict land sold to Jews (and only Jews - isn't that called bigotry?!) because Muslims were complaining? The Turks restricted land sales as well, since they were scared they'd lose hold of Palestine if Jews had their own government. (They weren't worried about Arab farmers.) Are you OK that they started confiscating (aka stealing what Jews had legally paid for) the land that Jews were on?
> 
> Hmmm?
> 
> MOST OF THE LAND BELONGED TO FOREIGN GOVERNMENT. So are you telling me that Muslim communal property is legit and Jewish communal property and government isn't?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeedy .....
> The Negev Desert alone, the then thought-useless HALF of Israel, was owned by NO Arab.
> See my (""Myth #1..." string)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CAMERA.org said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=4&x_outlet=28&x_article=291
> 
> Once again Philip Mattar was featured, repeating some of the same falsehoods he had uttered in the previous segment:The Jews were being offered 55% of Palestine when in fact they had owned only 7% of the country. Four-hundred-fifty thousand Palestinians were going to end up within the Jewish state, and they did not see any reason why they should go along with that kind of inequality, that kind of injustice.​*Mattar's clear, and false, implication is that if Jews owned only some small percentage of the land, then Arabs must have owned the rest, in this case more than 93% of the country.
> 
> But this is nonsense &#8211; in Mandate Palestine the Arabs owned little more land than did the Jews.* Indeed, going back to Ottoman times, *most of the country was state-owned land*, not under any individual ownership. Thus, under the Ottoman code one of the main land categories was* miri*, meaning land belonging to the Emir.
> 
> During the Mandate, the British carried out detailed land surveys, marking off who owned what, and according to figures in the 'British Survey of Palestine' (republished and endorsed by Mattar's Institute for Palestine Studies), *at least 65% of the country was state land, and probably much More than that.*
> [......]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Got it yet, you 40 IQ anti-semite Schmuck?*
> -
> -
Click to expand...


----------



## P F Tinmore

The Ottoman Empire had a "land rights" system. These land rights could be bought, sold, leased, or inherited. The Palestinians *owned* the rights to their land. After the fall of the empire the land was ceded to Palestine as the successor state. The ownership of these rights was converted to land ownership. This land was not up for grabs. It went to the people who *owned* the rights.

The government owned, or communal land, was not up for grabs. It was owned collectively by Palestine's Muslim, Christian, and Jewish inhabitants.

Look it up.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _Several inaccuracies here._


As per arab agitprop, of course, and their delusions are of the clinical nature.


P F Tinmore said:


> _By 1947 the Jews only owned about 7% of the land._


And arabs owned only a meager 8% of it. Absentee landlords, mostly churches owned 16%. The remainder, comprised by state lands, owned previously by the sultan, was owned by the mandate government.


P F Tinmore said:


> _Britain Administered Palestine. It did not take possession. Ottoman land was ceded to the government of Palestine._


Of course, not. The ottomans just lost the war and their imperial real estate.


P F Tinmore said:


> _No "Arab" country lost the 1948 war. No "Arab" country lost any land._


Cool, then they have nothing to bitch about.


----------



## abu afak

Jordan is Palestine .com









> An Arab Palestine is a fallacy &#8211; it is based on lies and misconceptions. There has never, in the history of the world, been a nation of Palestine.
> Is this just a radical pro-Israel viewpoint or is it a universal truth that can be proven in many ways? This website is inspired by Geert Wilders, a Dutch Parliamentarian, who said in June 2010 that &#8220;Jordan is Palestine&#8221;.
> 
> Okay, so where is this proof? The most important proofs for this are historic maps of Palestine, and quotes from so-called &#8220;Palestinian&#8221; leaders over the years, showing that Palestine, as a distinct identity, never existed
> &#8211; EVER!
> There were times of Muslim rule over Palestine at several points in history, but Palestine was always part of a larger entity and it&#8217;s inhabitants never had anything that distinguished them from others in the vicinity &#8211;
> they had the same language, names, monetary system, government, culture and artifacts of those in neighbouring areas.
> This website explores the question of just who the Palestinians are and why Jordan should be called Palestine, and NOT the West Bank or Gaza.


-
-


----------



## P F Tinmore

It is funny watching people try and explain how foreigners have more right to Palestine than the Palestinians.


----------



## abu afak

P F Tinmore said:


> It is funny watching people try and explain how foreigners have more right to Palestine than the Palestinians.


It is indeed!


"One Always finds in Palestine Arabs who have been in the country only a Few Weeks or a Few Months...
Since They are themselves Strangers in a Strange land, They are the Loudest to cry: 'Out with the Jews!...
Amongst them are to be found representatives of every Arab country: Arabs from Transjordan, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt, the Sudan and Iraq."

 - Ladislas Farago, Palestine at the Crossroads (New York: Putnam 1937) p17
-
-


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny watching people try and explain how foreigners have more right to Palestine than the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> It is indeed!
> 
> 
> "One Always finds in Palestine Arabs who have been in the country only a Few Weeks or a Few Months...
> Since They are themselves Strangers in a Strange land, They are the Loudest to cry: 'Out with the Jews!...
> Amongst them are to be found representatives of every Arab country: Arabs from Transjordan, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt, the Sudan and Iraq."
> 
> - Ladislas Farago, Palestine at the Crossroads (New York: Putnam 1937) p17
> -
> -
Click to expand...


Surely there were some recent Arab immigrants. Of course they were a drop in the bucket compared to the Jewish immigration.

However, a few recent immigrants do not negate the rights of the Palestinians whose ancestry goes back hundreds sometimes thousands of years.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _It is funny watching people try and explain how foreigners have more right to Palestine than the Palestinians._


That's what arab delusions are for, of course.


----------



## abu afak

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is funny watching people try and explain how foreigners have more right to Palestine than the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> It is indeed!
> 
> 
> *"One Always finds in Palestine Arabs who have been in the country only a Few Weeks or a Few Months...
> Since They are themselves Strangers in a Strange land, They are the Loudest to cry: 'Out with the Jews!...
> Amongst them are to be found representatives of every Arab country: Arabs from Transjordan, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt, the Sudan and Iraq."
> 
> - Ladislas Farago, Palestine at the Crossroads (New York: Putnam 1937) p17
> -
> -*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> Surely there were some recent Arab immigrants. Of course they were a drop in the bucket compared to the Jewish immigration.*
> 
> However, a few recent immigrants do not negate the rights of the Palestinians whose ancestry goes back hundreds sometimes thousands of years.
Click to expand...

Disagree.
Immigration to Palestine was large... following the Zionists in for Jobs they created.
Just as 'Palestinians' Traditionally and Still flock by the Tens/Hundreds of Thousands to Job in places like Kuwait, Iraq, Israel, etc.
-
-


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is indeed!
> 
> 
> *"One Always finds in Palestine Arabs who have been in the country only a Few Weeks or a Few Months...
> Since They are themselves Strangers in a Strange land, They are the Loudest to cry: 'Out with the Jews!...
> Amongst them are to be found representatives of every Arab country: Arabs from Transjordan, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt, the Sudan and Iraq."
> 
> - Ladislas Farago, Palestine at the Crossroads (New York: Putnam 1937) p17
> -
> -*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Surely there were some recent Arab immigrants. Of course they were a drop in the bucket compared to the Jewish immigration.*
> 
> However, a few recent immigrants do not negate the rights of the Palestinians whose ancestry goes back hundreds sometimes thousands of years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disagree.
> Immigration to Palestine was large... following the Zionists in for Jobs they created.
> Just as 'Palestinians' Traditionally and Still flock by the Tens/Hundreds of Thousands to Job in places like Kuwait, Iraq, Israel, etc.
> -
> -
Click to expand...


The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.

The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth. The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures._


An honest account, presented by W. Churchill - "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied until their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." - confirms that it wasn't so, of course.


----------



## abu afak

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Surely there were some recent Arab immigrants. Of course they were a drop in the bucket compared to the Jewish immigration.[/b]
> 
> However, a few recent immigrants do not negate the rights of the Palestinians whose ancestry goes back hundreds sometimes thousands of years.
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree.
> Immigration to Palestine was large... following the Zionists in for Jobs they created.
> Just as 'Palestinians' Traditionally and Still flock by the Tens/Hundreds of Thousands to Job in places like Kuwait, Iraq, Israel, etc.
> -
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.
> 
> The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.
Click to expand...

Nonsense.

They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
-
-


----------



## Monnagonna

abu afak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree.
> Immigration to Palestine was large... following the Zionists in for Jobs they created.
> Just as 'Palestinians' Traditionally and Still flock by the Tens/Hundreds of Thousands to Job in places like Kuwait, Iraq, Israel, etc.
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.
> 
> The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
> -
> -
Click to expand...


Donald Trump said he's ready to help out.


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree.
> Immigration to Palestine was large... following the Zionists in for Jobs they created.
> Just as 'Palestinians' Traditionally and Still flock by the Tens/Hundreds of Thousands to Job in places like Kuwait, Iraq, Israel, etc.
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.
> 
> The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
> -
> -
Click to expand...


WOW, you really *don't* know much about this conflict.


----------



## Moonglow

semite, the word describes a group of people that speak the language. Semite is spoken by Jews and Arabs.


----------



## P F Tinmore

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.
> 
> The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
> -
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WOW, you really *don't* know much about this conflict.
Click to expand...


Excellent example of ethnic cleansing and how it is done, in this case affecting over one hundred Palestinians by destroying this years crop and stopping future crops by cutting off water.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qbRSPN3RJg&feature=related]&#x202a;Israeli Police destroy villagers vegetable crop and cut off water supply&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## LebanonPride

abu afak said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree.
> Immigration to Palestine was large... following the Zionists in for Jobs they created.
> Just as 'Palestinians' Traditionally and Still flock by the Tens/Hundreds of Thousands to Job in places like Kuwait, Iraq, Israel, etc.
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.
> 
> The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
> -
> -
Click to expand...


Oh yes, that has nothing to do with Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza which has crippled the Gazan economy to virtually nothing. Because with a weak economy, clearly there will be a high number of jobs available. That's just common sense 

Why is it supporters of the Zionist state are all extremely ignorant?


----------



## abu afak

LebanonPride said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.
> 
> The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
> -
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yes, that has nothing to do with Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza which has crippled the Gazan economy to virtually nothing. Because with a weak economy, clearly there will be a high number of jobs available. That's just common sense
> 
> Why is it supporters of the Zionist state are all extremely ignorant?
Click to expand...

Speaking OF "ignorant".. what have we here?
19 yr old Hezbollah?

In FACT, even more Palestinians worked in Israel before the 2000 Intifada they started. Many more. It is THEY who cut off their own wallets for bigotry.
And of course Again with the election of Hamas 6 years later.

Israel is the main private employer of 'Palestinians' and Always has been. That's why those Arabs who now call themselves 'palestinian' came to the area in the first place.

I see you got a gratuitous thx from one the boards stupid anti-semites- alexa- for that partisan but goofy post.
-


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> LebanonPride said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
> -
> -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, that has nothing to do with Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza which has crippled the Gazan economy to virtually nothing. Because with a weak economy, clearly there will be a high number of jobs available. That's just common sense
> 
> Why is it supporters of the Zionist state are all extremely ignorant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Speaking OF "ignorant".. what have we here?
> 19 yr old Hezbollah?
> 
> In FACT, even more Palestinians worked in Israel before the 2000 Intifada they started. Many more. It is THEY who cut off their own wallets for bigotry.
> And of course Again with the election of Hamas 6 years later.
> 
> Israel is the main private employer of 'Palestinians' and Always has been. That's why those Arabs who now call themselves 'palestinian' came to the area in the first place.
> 
> I see you got a gratuitous thx from one the boards stupid anti-semites- alexa- for that partisan but goofy post.
> -
Click to expand...


What about those 25 greenhouses?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JI-axaRF4]&#x202a;Rachel Corrie - Interview&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Monnagonna

Donald Trump supports the Palestinians.


----------



## abu afak

Monnagonna said:


> Donald Trump supports the Palestinians.



LOL Fraud Sig guy.

LINK?
-
-


----------



## Monnagonna

Israelis just can't admit when they're in the wrong.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Monnagonna said:


> Israelis just can't admit when they're in the wrong.



ANKARA, (PIC)-- Israel has offered to double compensation to the families of those killed in the May 2010 Mavi Marmara attack instead of officially apologizing for the attack as demanded by Turkey, the Israeli daily Maariv reported on Thursday, quoting an Israeli political official.

The new proposal states that the amount to be paid to each of the nine Turkish victims families would be raised from US $50,000 to $100,000 in a bid to dodge the apology demand.

The official said Turkey has yet to respond to the offer which Israel hopes would end the diplomatic crisis between the two countries that followed the attack.

According to Maariv, a meeting between Israeli and Turkish representatives is expected to be held in Washington next week in an effort to restore peace and end the crisis before the UNs Palmer report based on investigations of what happened on the Mavi Marmara ship would be released.

Turkey has reiterated time and again its demands for an official apology, compensation, and an end to the Gaza siege before restoring damaged relations with Israel.

Israel offers to double restitution instead of apology to Turkey


----------



## docmauser1

P F Tinmore said:


> _ANKARA, (PIC)-- Israel has offered to double compensation to the families of those killed in the May 2010 Mavi Marmara attack instead of officially apologizing for the attack as demanded by Turkey, the Israeli daily Maariv reported on Thursday, quoting an Israeli political official._


Well, the standing of that turkish at home doesn't seem to be all that cool, as evidenced by his need to make perpetual barking noises to prove his top-dogness.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Donald Trump supports the Palestinians.



Trump sides with the Jews, like most Americans.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump supports the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump sides with the Jews, like most Americans.
Click to expand...


The two reason Americans like jews is because they need armaggedon to happen in the middle east (so jesus can come back), which wouldn't be possible without heebs. Second reason is so that the arabs and their oil will need protection.

Trump supports the palies. Always has, always will.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Trump supports the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trump sides with the Jews, like most Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The ONLY reason Americans like jews is because they need armaggedon to happen in the middle east, which wouldn't be possible without heebs.
> 
> Trump supports the palies. Always has, always will.
Click to expand...


Americans like Jews because America is based on Jewish precepts that form the basis of America and of Western civilization.

There is a park in Israel named in Trump's honor, reflecting Trump's support for Israel.


----------



## JStone

LebanonPride said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The immigration of "Arabs" was insignificant in the increase in population. The vast majority was natural growth.
> 
> The Palestinians go other places for work because Israel has stolen or destroyed their economic infrastructures.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> They go looking for work because they breed like rabbits and have few entrepeneurs.
> -
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yes, that has nothing to do with Israel's illegal blockade of Gaza which has crippled the Gazan economy to virtually nothing. Because with a weak economy, clearly there will be a high number of jobs available. That's just common sense
> 
> Why is it supporters of the Zionist state are all extremely ignorant?
Click to expand...


Another troll equipped with a kindergarten law degree.  Israel's blockade of Gaza is entirely lawful.

Can you post links to Turkey's illegal blockade of Armenia?  No, I didn't think so.  allahu fucku


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump sides with the Jews, like most Americans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ONLY reason Americans like jews is because they need armaggedon to happen in the middle east, which wouldn't be possible without heebs.
> 
> Trump supports the palies. Always has, always will.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Americans like Jews because America is based on Jewish precepts that form the basis of America and of Western civilization.
> 
> There is a park in Israel named in Trump's honor, reflecting Trump's support for Israel.
Click to expand...


Americans like jews, lol, good one, is that why they turned boatloads of jews away who were escaping WWII? The reason Britain and the US set up izzyrael in the first place was so that they wouldn't have to accept any heebs in their countries after the war. Boy, you sure are dense.

I could name a park in Hitler's name, doesn't mean he likes me.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ONLY reason Americans like jews is because they need armaggedon to happen in the middle east, which wouldn't be possible without heebs.
> 
> Trump supports the palies. Always has, always will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans like Jews because America is based on Jewish precepts that form the basis of America and of Western civilization.
> 
> There is a park in Israel named in Trump's honor, reflecting Trump's support for Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Americans like jews, lol, good one, is that why they turned boatloads of jews away who were escaping WWII? The reason Britain and the US set up izzyrael in the first place was so that they wouldn't have to accept any heebs in their countries after the war. Boy, you sure are dense.
> 
> I could name a park in Hitler's name, doesn't mean he likes me.
Click to expand...


Israel was set up 3000 years ago.  Open a history book.

The Founding Fathers praised the Jews for giving America their civilized belief system, not the Muhammadan.

US President John Adams...


> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
> 
> Amazon.com: Roots Of American Order (9781882926992): Russell Kirk, Forrest McDonald: Books


----------



## Monnagonna

Adams was an alcoholic.

What does izzyrael being set up 3000 years ago have to do with anything? We all descend from Lucy, who was from Africa, you gonna claim all of Africa too?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Adams was an alcoholic.
> 
> What does izzyrael being set up 3000 years ago have to do with anything? We all descend from Lucy, who was from Africa, you gonna claim all of Africa too?



Israel was set up 3000 years ago, 2000 years before there was a Mahomet or even an Arab.

Jews are the only surviving People from ancient Canaan and own Israel, today.

Arabs and Mahometans pound sand.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adams was an alcoholic.
> 
> What does izzyrael being set up 3000 years ago have to do with anything? We all descend from Lucy, who was from Africa, you gonna claim all of Africa too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was set up 3000 years ago, 2000 years before there was a Mahomet or even an Arab.
> 
> Jews are the only surviving People from ancient Canaan and own Israel, today.
> 
> Arabs and Mahometans pound sand.
Click to expand...


So every people who had land 3000 years ago has a right to go claim it now?


----------



## Monnagonna

So the US should give all its land back to the spear chuckers?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adams was an alcoholic.
> 
> What does izzyrael being set up 3000 years ago have to do with anything? We all descend from Lucy, who was from Africa, you gonna claim all of Africa too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was set up 3000 years ago, 2000 years before there was a Mahomet or even an Arab.
> 
> Jews are the only surviving People from ancient Canaan and own Israel, today.
> 
> Arabs and Mahometans pound sand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So every people who had land 3000 years ago has a right to go claim it now?
Click to expand...


Egyptians haven't owned Egypt for 5000 years, dumbbell?


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel was set up 3000 years ago, 2000 years before there was a Mahomet or even an Arab.
> 
> Jews are the only surviving People from ancient Canaan and own Israel, today.
> 
> Arabs and Mahometans pound sand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So every people who had land 3000 years ago has a right to go claim it now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egyptians haven't owned Egypt for 5000 years, dumbbell?
Click to expand...


That's just ONE example of a people who've OCCUPIED THAT LAND FOR 5000 YEARS!!! Geez, get a real argument.

So the US should give all its land back to the spear chuckers?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> So every people who had land 3000 years ago has a right to go claim it now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptians haven't owned Egypt for 5000 years, dumbbell?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just ONE example of a people who've OCCUPIED THAT LAND FOR 5000 YEARS!!! Geez, get a real argument.
> 
> So the US should give all its land back to the spear chuckers?
Click to expand...


Arabians haven't occupied Arabia for 1400 years, dumbass?


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egyptians haven't owned Egypt for 5000 years, dumbbell?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just ONE example of a people who've OCCUPIED THAT LAND FOR 5000 YEARS!!! Geez, get a real argument.
> 
> So the US should give all its land back to the spear chuckers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabians haven't occupied Arabia for 1400 years, dumbass?
Click to expand...


Arabians? The horses? Or do you mean Saudi Arabians? 

So you didn't answer, should the US give back all its land to the indians, since the indians were here 3000 years ago?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just ONE example of a people who've OCCUPIED THAT LAND FOR 5000 YEARS!!! Geez, get a real argument.
> 
> So the US should give all its land back to the spear chuckers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabians haven't occupied Arabia for 1400 years, dumbass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arabians? The horses? Or do you mean Saudi Arabians?
> 
> So you didn't answer, should the US give back all its land to the indians, since the indians were here 3000 years ago?
Click to expand...


Iraqis haven't occupied Iraq since it was called Mesopotamia 5000 years ago, dumbass?


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabians haven't occupied Arabia for 1400 years, dumbass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arabians? The horses? Or do you mean Saudi Arabians?
> 
> So you didn't answer, should the US give back all its land to the indians, since the indians were here 3000 years ago?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Iraqis haven't occupied Iraq since it was called Mesopotamia 5000 years ago, dumbass?
Click to expand...


Now that's totally irrelevant, you must be new to debating.

And anyways, Irak has a few jews, why don't you go claim their land as well?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arabians? The horses? Or do you mean Saudi Arabians?
> 
> So you didn't answer, should the US give back all its land to the indians, since the indians were here 3000 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iraqis haven't occupied Iraq since it was called Mesopotamia 5000 years ago, dumbass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's totally irrelevant, you must be new to debating.
> 
> And anyways, Irak has a few jews, why don't you go claim their land as well?
Click to expand...


You need to get a brain transplant before attempting to debate.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Iraqis haven't occupied Iraq since it was called Mesopotamia 5000 years ago, dumbass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's totally irrelevant, you must be new to debating.
> 
> And anyways, Irak has a few jews, why don't you go claim their land as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You need to get a brain transplant before attempting to debate.
Click to expand...


Hey! Canada has some jews and jews have been on earth for 3000 years, why don't you go claim Canada?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's totally irrelevant, you must be new to debating.
> 
> And anyways, Irak has a few jews, why don't you go claim their land as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get a brain transplant before attempting to debate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey! Canada has some jews and jews have been on earth for 3000 years, why don't you go claim Canada?
Click to expand...


Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get a brain transplant before attempting to debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Canada has some jews and jews have been on earth for 3000 years, why don't you go claim Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.
Click to expand...


Florida and NYC are the jewish homeland.There are probably 10 times more jews in the US than in israel. Shows what you know.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Canada has some jews and jews have been on earth for 3000 years, why don't you go claim Canada?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Florida and NYC are the jewish homeland.There are probably 10 times more jews in the US than in israel. Shows what you know.
Click to expand...


Israel is the 3000 year Jewish homeland, psycho.


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get a brain transplant before attempting to debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Canada has some jews and jews have been on earth for 3000 years, why don't you go claim Canada?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.
Click to expand...


Egypt is your homeland, dink.  Remember from whence you came, slave of the Pharaoh.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Canada has some jews and jews have been on earth for 3000 years, why don't you go claim Canada?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt is your homeland, dink.  Remember from whence you came, slave of the Pharaoh.
Click to expand...


Remember, your Mahomet was a pedophile married to a 6 year old girl when he was 53


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is your homeland, dink.  Remember from whence you came, slave of the Pharaoh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember, your Mahomet was a pedophile married to a 6 year old girl when he was 53
Click to expand...


guess again!

I'm not a muslim.



Back to Egypt with you, slave!





ps, go tell your funny jokes to the ghosts of the homosexual David and Jonathan.  I'm pretty sure we ALL know why Saul threw his spear.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is your homeland, dink.  Remember from whence you came, slave of the Pharaoh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, your Mahomet was a pedophile married to a 6 year old girl when he was 53
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> guess again!
> 
> I'm not a muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> Back to Egypt with you, slave!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ps, go tell your funny jokes to the ghosts of the homosexual David and Jonathan.  I'm pretty sure we ALL know why Saul threw his spear.
Click to expand...


Your Mahomet molesting a 6 year old child was no joke.  Sucks being you


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Canada has some jews and jews have been on earth for 3000 years, why don't you go claim Canada?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Egypt is your homeland, dink.  Remember from whence you came, slave of the Pharaoh.
Click to expand...


You have archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho?  No, I didn't think so


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, your Mahomet was a pedophile married to a 6 year old girl when he was 53
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guess again!
> 
> I'm not a muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> Back to Egypt with you, slave!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ps, go tell your funny jokes to the ghosts of the homosexual David and Jonathan.  I'm pretty sure we ALL know why Saul threw his spear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your Mahomet molesting a 6 year old child was no joke.  Sucks being you
Click to expand...


not really.  You see, jew, I don't care how much shit you talk about mohammed.  I'M not one of your ****** class that you can pick on.

Rather, I'm one of those white americans whose collective asses you find yourself kissing in order to maintain zion.

pucker up, lover boy!


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel, not Canada, is the Jewish homeland.  You're so dumb, it's not even funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt is your homeland, dink.  Remember from whence you came, slave of the Pharaoh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho?  No, I didn't think so
Click to expand...


read your own history, jew.  Before your ghost in the sky promised you canaan (another land ironically already occupied) you were slaves from Egypt.




fool.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> guess again!
> 
> I'm not a muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> Back to Egypt with you, slave!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ps, go tell your funny jokes to the ghosts of the homosexual David and Jonathan.  I'm pretty sure we ALL know why Saul threw his spear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your Mahomet molesting a 6 year old child was no joke.  Sucks being you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> not really.  You see, jew, I don't care how much shit you talk about mohammed.  I'M not one of your ****** class that you can pick on.
> 
> Rather, I'm one of those white americans whose collective asses you find yourself kissing in order to maintain zion.
> 
> pucker up, lover boy!
Click to expand...


LOL, the US deploys Israeli military technology in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You're not the brightest bulb in the bunch, dumbass.


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your Mahomet molesting a 6 year old child was no joke.  Sucks being you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not really.  You see, jew, I don't care how much shit you talk about mohammed.  I'M not one of your ****** class that you can pick on.
> 
> Rather, I'm one of those white americans whose collective asses you find yourself kissing in order to maintain zion.
> 
> pucker up, lover boy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, the US deploys Israeli military technology in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> You're not the brightest bulb in the bunch, dumbass.
Click to expand...



And isreal thrives on the cash flow of American taxes.  Otherwise, you'd be a dry husk ready to be sheared.


but, do tell me more about which of us is a dumbass while insisting that I'm a muslim, german kindling.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> not really.  You see, jew, I don't care how much shit you talk about mohammed.  I'M not one of your ****** class that you can pick on.
> 
> Rather, I'm one of those white americans whose collective asses you find yourself kissing in order to maintain zion.
> 
> pucker up, lover boy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, the US deploys Israeli military technology in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> You're not the brightest bulb in the bunch, dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And isreal thrives on the cash flow of American taxes.  Otherwise, you'd be a dry husk ready to be sheared.
> 
> 
> but, do tell me more about which of us is a dumbass while insisting that I'm a muslim, german kindling.
Click to expand...


Two thirds of US foreign aid goes to your Muzzies and Arabs who hate the Great Satan America.

Meanwhile, Israelis buy upwards of $15 billion in American products each year, making Israel one of the US's 20 largest export markets, while poor people like you buy cheap shit from China


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, the US deploys Israeli military technology in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> 
> You're not the brightest bulb in the bunch, dumbass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And isreal thrives on the cash flow of American taxes.  Otherwise, you'd be a dry husk ready to be sheared.
> 
> 
> but, do tell me more about which of us is a dumbass while insisting that I'm a muslim, german kindling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Two thirds of US foreign aid goes to your Muzzies and Arabs who hate the Great Satan America.
> 
> Meanwhile, Israelis buy upwards of $15 billion in American products each year, making Israel one of the US's 20 largest export markets, while poor people like you buy cheap shit from China
Click to expand...


yea right, jew.  If it weren't for foreign aid to jew-land your kind couldn't afford to water a single olive tree on stolen land.  Besides, you are no better, mr. Isreal or bust.


tell me more about being poor after having lamps made from your skin, joojoo.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> And isreal thrives on the cash flow of American taxes.  Otherwise, you'd be a dry husk ready to be sheared.
> 
> 
> but, do tell me more about which of us is a dumbass while insisting that I'm a muslim, german kindling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two thirds of US foreign aid goes to your Muzzies and Arabs who hate the Great Satan America.
> 
> Meanwhile, Israelis buy upwards of $15 billion in American products each year, making Israel one of the US's 20 largest export markets, while poor people like you buy cheap shit from China
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yea right, jew.  If it weren't for foreign aid to jew-land your kind couldn't afford to water a single olive tree on stolen land.  Besides, you are no better, mr. Isreal or bust.
> 
> 
> tell me more about being poor after having lamps made from your skin, joojoo.
Click to expand...


Israel has a $200 billion GDP, the 40th largest economy in the world, psycho.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and uneducated


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two thirds of US foreign aid goes to your Muzzies and Arabs who hate the Great Satan America.
> 
> Meanwhile, Israelis buy upwards of $15 billion in American products each year, making Israel one of the US's 20 largest export markets, while poor people like you buy cheap shit from China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yea right, jew.  If it weren't for foreign aid to jew-land your kind couldn't afford to water a single olive tree on stolen land.  Besides, you are no better, mr. Isreal or bust.
> 
> 
> tell me more about being poor after having lamps made from your skin, joojoo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel has a $200 billion GDP, the 40th largest economy in the world, psycho.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and uneducated
Click to expand...


You know nothing about me.  Coincidentally, you seem to know nothing about foreign aid to isreal.

You can't brag about your economy when you are propped up by the US like a puppet with a hand up its ass.


Go fight over a penny, you fucking lampshade.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea right, jew.  If it weren't for foreign aid to jew-land your kind couldn't afford to water a single olive tree on stolen land.  Besides, you are no better, mr. Isreal or bust.
> 
> 
> tell me more about being poor after having lamps made from your skin, joojoo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a $200 billion GDP, the 40th largest economy in the world, psycho.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and uneducated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know nothing about me.  Coincidentally, you seem to know nothing about foreign aid to isreal.
> 
> You can't brag about your economy when you are propped up by the US like a puppet with a hand up its ass.
> 
> 
> Go fight over a penny, you fucking lampshade.
Click to expand...


LOL, Israel receives 3 times more venture capital per person than the US.  You're so fucking dumb, no wonder America is doomed.


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel has a $200 billion GDP, the 40th largest economy in the world, psycho.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and uneducated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing about me.  Coincidentally, you seem to know nothing about foreign aid to isreal.
> 
> You can't brag about your economy when you are propped up by the US like a puppet with a hand up its ass.
> 
> 
> Go fight over a penny, you fucking lampshade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, Israel receives 3 times more venture capital per person than the US.  You're so fucking dumb, no wonder America is doomed.
Click to expand...


monies taken strait from the tit of the American tax payer.  Again, we both know that without zionist embezzlement of the US you'd have just about what you walked away from the concentration camp with: a tattoo and broken dreams.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know nothing about me.  Coincidentally, you seem to know nothing about foreign aid to isreal.
> 
> You can't brag about your economy when you are propped up by the US like a puppet with a hand up its ass.
> 
> 
> Go fight over a penny, you fucking lampshade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, Israel receives 3 times more venture capital per person than the US.  You're so fucking dumb, no wonder America is doomed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> monies taken strait from the tit of the American tax payer.  Again, we both know that without zionist embezzlement of the US you'd have just about what you walked away from the concentration camp with: a tattoo and broken dreams.
Click to expand...


Israel receives no "monies," loser.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> a tattoo and broken dreams.



Projecting, loser?


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> a tattoo and broken dreams.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Projecting, loser?
Click to expand...


go ask your grandparents, lampshade.


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, Israel receives 3 times more venture capital per person than the US.  You're so fucking dumb, no wonder America is doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> monies taken strait from the tit of the American tax payer.  Again, we both know that without zionist embezzlement of the US you'd have just about what you walked away from the concentration camp with: a tattoo and broken dreams.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel receives no "monies," loser.
Click to expand...


Sure it does.  Feel free to stop suckling the American tax payer like a baby drinking milk, jew.


We both know you won't though.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> monies taken strait from the tit of the American tax payer.  Again, we both know that without zionist embezzlement of the US you'd have just about what you walked away from the concentration camp with: a tattoo and broken dreams.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel receives no "monies," loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure it does.  Feel free to stop suckling the American tax payer like a baby drinking milk, jew.
> 
> 
> We both know you won't though.
Click to expand...


Israel receives no "monies," loser.

Warren Buffett...
We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve.  Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world.  It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that.  They feel good about societies that are on the move.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN_2nFqFtI]Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Shogun

I&#8217;ll tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. It&#8217;s addictive. And there&#8217;s fantastic brand loyalty.
&#8212;Warren Buffett





so much for Buffet quotes...


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> Ill tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. Its addictive. And theres fantastic brand loyalty.
> Warren Buffett
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so much for Buffet quotes...



Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a shoe box


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ill tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. Its addictive. And theres fantastic brand loyalty.
> Warren Buffett
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so much for Buffet quotes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a shoe box
Click to expand...


Your fragile self esteem would need to think so.  But hey, your kind also think that the sun rises and sets according to jewish permission so...


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ill tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. Its addictive. And theres fantastic brand loyalty.
> Warren Buffett
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so much for Buffet quotes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a shoe box
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your fragile self esteem would need to think so.  But hey, your kind also think that the sun rises and sets according to jewish permission so...
Click to expand...


Projecting, again, trash?


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a shoe box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your fragile self esteem would need to think so.  But hey, your kind also think that the sun rises and sets according to jewish permission so...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Projecting, again, trash?
Click to expand...


telling it like it is, baked jew.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your fragile self esteem would need to think so.  But hey, your kind also think that the sun rises and sets according to jewish permission so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Projecting, again, trash?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> telling it like it is, baked jew.
Click to expand...


Suffering from Jew Envy, poor trash?


----------



## Monnagonna

jews couldn't go back to egypt anyways, egypt is a US ally, which makes them an ally of egypt as well since they both receive a ton of money from the good ol' USA.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> jews couldn't go back to egypt anyways, egypt is a US ally, which makes them an ally of egypt as well since they both receive a ton of money from the good ol' USA.



You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser?  No, I didn't think so


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Projecting, again, trash?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> telling it like it is, baked jew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Suffering from Jew Envy, poor trash?
Click to expand...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!@

yea, right!  You say that like the ugly girl who never got a prom date!



poor guy.  it must suck to have the cultural relevance of a parasite.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> jews couldn't go back to egypt anyways, egypt is a US ally, which makes them an ally of egypt as well since they both receive a ton of money from the good ol' USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser?  No, I didn't think so
Click to expand...


You were slaves of the pharoahs. Ever seen the movie the Ten Commandments?


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> jews couldn't go back to egypt anyways, egypt is a US ally, which makes them an ally of egypt as well since they both receive a ton of money from the good ol' USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser?  No, I didn't think so
Click to expand...


Your own holy book tells us exactly where you escaped from, Hiburu.  Moreso, it tells us exactly how you took land from an indigenous population THEN just like you are doing now.


Truly, nothing new under the sun.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> jews couldn't go back to egypt anyways, egypt is a US ally, which makes them an ally of egypt as well since they both receive a ton of money from the good ol' USA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser?  No, I didn't think so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were slaves of the pharoahs. Ever seen the movie the Ten Commandments?
Click to expand...


You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser? No, I didn't think so


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser?  No, I didn't think so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were slaves of the pharoahs. Ever seen the movie the Ten Commandments?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser? No, I didn't think so
Click to expand...


when you have nothing else to retort with then REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT.





that vacuous echo we hear must be coming from that mudhole stomped in jstone's ass.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were slaves of the pharoahs. Ever seen the movie the Ten Commandments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser? No, I didn't think so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> when you have nothing else to retort with then REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that vacuous echo we hear must be coming from that mudhole stomped in jstone's ass.
Click to expand...


I win.


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have any archaeological evidence Jews inhabited Egypt, psycho loser? No, I didn't think so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when you have nothing else to retort with then REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that vacuous echo we hear must be coming from that mudhole stomped in jstone's ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I win.
Click to expand...


Your mommy says so but she's the only one.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> when you have nothing else to retort with then REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that vacuous echo we hear must be coming from that mudhole stomped in jstone's ass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I win.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your mommy says so but she's the only one.
Click to expand...


Coming from uneducated, unemployed, poor trailer trash


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> I win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your mommy says so but she's the only one.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coming from uneducated, unemployed, poor trailer trash
Click to expand...


Jstone: "DddDdDDderrrr II"mmm  Ujummicated becuz uym  JEWITCH!"


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your mommy says so but she's the only one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from uneducated, unemployed, poor trailer trash
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jstone: "DddDdDDderrrr II"mmm  Ujummicated becuz uym  JEWITCH!"
Click to expand...


Psycho loser


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coming from uneducated, unemployed, poor trailer trash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jstone: "DddDdDDderrrr II"mmm  Ujummicated becuz uym  JEWITCH!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Psycho loser
Click to expand...


poor, impotent jew.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jstone: "DddDdDDderrrr II"mmm  Ujummicated becuz uym  JEWITCH!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Psycho loser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> poor, impotent jew.
Click to expand...


Warren Buffett...
We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve.  Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world.  It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that.  They feel good about societies that are on the move.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Psycho loser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> poor, impotent jew.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Warren Buffett...
> We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve.  Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world.  It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that.  They feel good about societies that are on the move.
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN_2nFqFtI]Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Warren Buffet is only interested in accumulating more pennies, no wonder he likes jews.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> poor, impotent jew.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warren Buffett...
> We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve.  Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world.  It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that.  They feel good about societies that are on the move.
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN_2nFqFtI]Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Warren Buffet is only interested in accumulating more pennies, no wonder he likes jews.
Click to expand...


Israel is the first foreign country Buffett invested in.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a slum


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Warren Buffett...
> We believe generally in the United States, we believe in ourselves and what a young country can achieve.  Israel, since 1948, now a major factor in commerce and in the world.  It's a smaller replica of what has been accomplished here and I think Americans admire that.  They feel good about societies that are on the move.
> Warren Buffet Supports the U.S.-Israel Relationship - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Warren Buffet is only interested in accumulating more pennies, no wonder he likes jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is the first foreign country Buffett invested in.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a slum
Click to expand...


What's it like to be wrong all the time. WB invested first in the US. Now the 3 periods are up, time to change your pad.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Warren Buffet is only interested in accumulating more pennies, no wonder he likes jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the first foreign country Buffett invested in.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a slum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's it like to be wrong all the time. WB invested first in the US. Now the 3 periods are up, time to change your pad.
Click to expand...


Meanwhile, you're an unemployed high school dropout living in a trailer.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is the first foreign country Buffett invested in.  Meanwhile, you're unemployed and living in a slum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's it like to be wrong all the time. WB invested first in the US. Now the 3 periods are up, time to change your pad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, you're an unemployed high school dropout living in a trailer.
Click to expand...


And you have such an important high paying job that you can spend all day repeating the same thing over and over?

btw, izrael is chock full of trailer parks.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's it like to be wrong all the time. WB invested first in the US. Now the 3 periods are up, time to change your pad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, you're an unemployed high school dropout living in a trailer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you have such an important high paying job that you can spend all day repeating the same thing over and over?
> 
> btw, izrael is chock full of trailer parks.
Click to expand...


Israel is full of lavish villas on the Mediterranean owned by entrepreneurs.  You, OTOH, are an unemployed high school dropout living in a slum


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, you're an unemployed high school dropout living in a trailer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you have such an important high paying job that you can spend all day repeating the same thing over and over?
> 
> btw, izrael is chock full of trailer parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Israel is full of lavish villas on the Mediterranean owned by entrepreneurs.  You, OTOH, are an unemployed high school dropout living in a slum
Click to expand...


How luxurious they are! They even have their own barbed wire!

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=mobil...art=0&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&tx=104&ty=76


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you have such an important high paying job that you can spend all day repeating the same thing over and over?
> 
> btw, izrael is chock full of trailer parks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel is full of lavish villas on the Mediterranean owned by entrepreneurs.  You, OTOH, are an unemployed high school dropout living in a slum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't drool in your keyboard, trailer trash
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rhcu7lNvaU]Meier On Rothschild - 3D Tour - Real Estate in Tel Aviv - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


----------



## Monnagonna

Where did I say that israel didn't have nice places to live? All I said was that israel has its fair share of trailer parks, that's all.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Where did I say that israel didn't have nice places to live? All I said was that israel has its fair share of trailer parks, that's all.



You would have saved a lot of people a lot of despair had you been aborted.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Where did I say that israel didn't have nice places to live? All I said was that israel has its fair share of trailer parks, that's all.



Your picture on facebook is hilarious.  How'd you get soooo fucking ugly?


----------



## Monnagonna

Facebook is for children, that's why I'm not even on it, but you are.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Facebook is for children, that's why I'm not even on it, but you are.



LOL, you are on facebook and you have one uglyass face, you freak


----------



## Monnagonna

Palestinian broads are hot, JAPs not so much.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Palestinian broads are hot, JAPs not so much.



Coming from the uglyass freak who looks like Elephant Man on Facebook who couldn't get laid in a whore house with a fistful of 100 dollar bills


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> How luxurious they are! They even have their own barbed wire!



America as its own barbed wire fence, Elephant Man Barbed concertina wire for U.S./Mexico border fence | Government Security News


----------



## Shogun

Never gonna get it, never gonna get it... NEVER gonna get it, never gonna get it....


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> Never gonna get it, never gonna get it... NEVER gonna get it, never gonna get it....



You live in the US of Torah, psycho.  

US President John Adams...
I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.


----------



## Shogun

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never gonna get it, never gonna get it... NEVER gonna get it, never gonna get it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You live in the US of Torah, psycho.
> 
> US President John Adams...
> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
Click to expand...


No, we enjoy all of our ethnic peoples, jew face.  Muslims AND kikes evenly.  

Now, go quote some silly ass ramble about John Quincy Adams again, comma master.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never gonna get it, never gonna get it... NEVER gonna get it, never gonna get it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You live in the US of Torah, psycho.
> 
> US President John Adams...
> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, we enjoy all of our ethnic peoples, jew face.  Muslims AND kikes evenly.
> 
> Now, go quote some silly ass ramble about John Quincy Adams again, comma master.
> 
> 
> fl:
Click to expand...


You enjoy living in the US of Torah, psycho 

Torah inscribed in Liberty Bell, Philadelphia: "Proclaim Liberty Throughout The Land" 
Independence National Historical Park - Liberty Bell Center (U.S. National Park Service)


----------



## Shogun

Your JIDF paycheck must be paid in pesos if that is all you can retort with, hebe.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> Your JIDF paycheck must be paid in pesos if that is all you can retort with, hebe.
> 
> 
> :rol:



Says the unemployed loser living in a trailer


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> How luxurious they are! They even have their own barbed wire!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America as its own barbed wire fence, Elephant Man Barbed concertina wire for U.S./Mexico border fence | Government Security News
Click to expand...


The US fence is for keeping out beaners and jews.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> How luxurious they are! They even have their own barbed wire!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America as its own barbed wire fence, Elephant Man Barbed concertina wire for U.S./Mexico border fence | Government Security News
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US fence is for keeping out beaners and jews.
Click to expand...


Too bad there isn't a fence to keep your ugly ass off facebook


----------



## P F Tinmore

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> How luxurious they are! They even have their own barbed wire!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America as its own barbed wire fence, Elephant Man Barbed concertina wire for U.S./Mexico border fence | Government Security News
Click to expand...


[


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> America as its own barbed wire fence, Elephant Man Barbed concertina wire for U.S./Mexico border fence | Government Security News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US fence is for keeping out beaners and jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Too bad there isn't a fence to keep your ugly ass off facebook
Click to expand...


The fence keeping out beaners and jews will be enough, but thanks anyways, better luck next time.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US fence is for keeping out beaners and jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad there isn't a fence to keep your ugly ass off facebook
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fence keeping out beaners and jews will be enough, but thanks anyways, better luck next time.
Click to expand...


When will facebook put up a fence to keep out your uglyass face?


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad there isn't a fence to keep your ugly ass off facebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fence keeping out beaners and jews will be enough, but thanks anyways, better luck next time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When will facebook put up a fence to keep out your uglyass face?
Click to expand...


Bro, can't you think of anything else to say? I thought you had a couple of PHDs.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fence keeping out beaners and jews will be enough, but thanks anyways, better luck next time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When will facebook put up a fence to keep out your uglyass face?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bro, can't you think of anything else to say? I thought you had a couple of PHDs.
Click to expand...


Bro, you are one ugly mofo on facebook.  Sucks being you.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> When will facebook put up a fence to keep out your uglyass face?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, can't you think of anything else to say? I thought you had a couple of PHDs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bro, you are one ugly mofo on facebook.  Sucks being you.
Click to expand...


I guess 2 PHDs isn't worth much is izzyrael.

If you have 2 PHDs, what do most people have, 9?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, can't you think of anything else to say? I thought you had a couple of PHDs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, you are one ugly mofo on facebook.  Sucks being you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess 2 PHDs isn't worth much is izzyrael.
> 
> If you have 2 PHDs, what do most people have, 9?
Click to expand...


Sucks being you, ugly mofo on facebook


----------



## docmauser1

Shogun said:


> _No, we enjoy all of our ethnic peoples, jew face.  Muslims AND kikes evenly._


Funny drivel.


----------



## Shogun

docmauser1 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _No, we enjoy all of our ethnic peoples, jew face.  Muslims AND kikes evenly._
> 
> 
> 
> Funny drivel.
Click to expand...


Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall.


----------



## JStone

Shogun said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _No, we enjoy all of our ethnic peoples, jew face.  Muslims AND kikes evenly._
> 
> 
> 
> Funny drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall.
Click to expand...


You don't even know what apartheid is, jackass.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't even know what apartheid is, jackass.
Click to expand...


If you live in israel you do.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even know what apartheid is, jackass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you live in israel you do.
Click to expand...


If you live in Israel, you have more companies listed on NASDAQ than lame Canada.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't even know what apartheid is, jackass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you live in israel you do.
Click to expand...


If you live in Canada, you know what apartheid is, dipshit: The Globe and Mail: Canada's Apartheid - Main page


----------



## docmauser1

Shogun said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _No, we enjoy all of our ethnic peoples, jew face.  Muslims AND kikes evenly._
> 
> 
> 
> Funny drivel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall._
Click to expand...

This drivel is even funnier.


----------



## Monnagonna

docmauser1 said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> _Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This drivel is even funnier.
Click to expand...


doc, he's right though.


----------



## docmauser1

Monnagonna said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall._
> 
> 
> 
> This drivel is even funnier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _doc, he's right though._
Click to expand...

Doc's always right, of course!


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Enjoy the truth of my post as you walk the streets of America today and don't find yourself behind a checkpoint road on the other side of an aparthied wall._
> 
> 
> 
> This drivel is even funnier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> doc, he's right though.
Click to expand...


Shouldn't you be out persecuting aboriginals, instead of posting on the internet?[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8do5BVTkYfI]Hidden from history...The Canadian Genocide - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This drivel is even funnier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> doc, he's right though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shouldn't you be out persecuting aboriginals, instead of posting on the internet?
Click to expand...


Here, I'll do my civic duty for today and teach you something: the aboriginals in North America signed treaties with the white man, so they have not much to complain about. Not so with the Palies and heebs.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> doc, he's right though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't you be out persecuting aboriginals, instead of posting on the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here, I'll do my civic duty for today and teach you something: the aboriginals in North America signed treaties with the white man, so they have not much to complain about. Not so with the Palies and heebs.
Click to expand...


Your civic duty is to persecute the aboriginals. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8do5BVTkYfI]Hidden from history...The Canadian Genocide - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Monnagonna

Dude, I'm not even Canadian.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Dude, I'm not even Canadian.



Don't deny your complicity in genocide of aboriginals, ugly face


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm not even Canadian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't deny your complicity in genocide of aboriginals, ugly face
Click to expand...


So what you're trying to say is that I should mind my own genocidal activities and you'll wory about the israeli's ethnic cleansing of arabs from Palestine? 

Gotcha.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I'm not even Canadian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't deny your complicity in genocide of aboriginals, ugly face
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So what you're trying to say is that I should mind my own genocidal activities and you'll wory about the israeli's ethnic cleansing of arabs from Palestine?
> 
> Gotcha.
Click to expand...


Go out and genocide your aboriginals, ugly face [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8do5BVTkYfI]Hidden from history...The Canadian Genocide - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone, did some pallies rape you in the ass? You seem afraid of them.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone, did some pallies rape you in the ass? You seem afraid of them.



Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara... 


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU]Professor Azmi Bishara: There Is No "Palestinian Nation", Never Was ! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Monnagonna

Do you have a reason why I should give a fuck about a Pally nation?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> Do you have a reason why I should give a fuck about a Pally nation?



Shouldn't you be genociding the aboriginals instead of posting in chat rooms, ugly face? 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8do5BVTkYfI]Hidden from history...The Canadian Genocide - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a reason why I should give a fuck about a Pally nation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't you be genociding the aboriginals instead of posting in chat rooms, ugly face?
> Hidden from history...The Canadian Genocide - YouTube
Click to expand...


So you have none, why am I not surprised?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a reason why I should give a fuck about a Pally nation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't you be genociding the aboriginals instead of posting in chat rooms, ugly face?
> Hidden from history...The Canadian Genocide - YouTube
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you have none, why am I not surprised?
Click to expand...


So you have an ugly face on facebook


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't you be genociding the aboriginals instead of posting in chat rooms, ugly face?
> Hidden from history...The Canadian Genocide - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have none, why am I not surprised?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you have an ugly face on facebook:ll:
Click to expand...


What does that even mean?


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you have none, why am I not surprised?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you have an ugly face on facebook:ll:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does that even mean?
Click to expand...


You have an ugly face on facebook


----------



## docmauser1

Monnagonna said:


> _Do you have a reason why I should give a fuck about a Pally nation?_


Why should we give that about anything "palisturdian" that hasn't existed in the first place?


----------



## Monnagonna

docmauser1 said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Do you have a reason why I should give a fuck about a Pally nation?_
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we give that about anything "palisturdian" that hasn't existed in the first place?
Click to expand...


I don't even like arabs.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Do you have a reason why I should give a fuck about a Pally nation?_
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we give that about anything "palisturdian" that hasn't existed in the first place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't even like arabs.
Click to expand...


You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html


----------



## JStone

alexa said:


> I Recent genetic research suggests that Palestinian arabs are probably the closest descendants of the original Jews



Comic books aren't really "genetic research" hun 

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence.  Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.  

The major movements of those Arabs into the region [of Israel] occurred after 600 CE, more than 1,600 years after David and the Israelites had vanquished the original inhabitants of the land


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why should we give that about anything "palisturdian" that hasn't existed in the first place?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even like arabs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html
Click to expand...


but seriously, you should stop jewing everyone and help jews get their shit together.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even like arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but seriously, you should stop jewing everyone and help jews get their shit together.
Click to expand...


You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053535-post240.html


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but seriously, you should stop jewing everyone and help jews get their shit together.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4055588-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4054535-post240.html
Click to expand...


Stop jewing me.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> but seriously, you should stop jewing everyone and help jews get their shit together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4055588-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4054535-post240.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop jewing me.
Click to expand...


You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053535-post240.html


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4055588-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4054535-post240.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop jewing me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4022228-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053225-post240.html
Click to expand...


So stop jewing me then.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop jewing me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4022228-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053225-post240.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So stop jewing me then.
Click to expand...


You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053535-post240.html

Owned.


----------



## Monnagonna

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4022228-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053225-post240.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So stop jewing me then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056511-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053445-post240.html
> 
> Ow.
Click to expand...


At least I'm not a faggot jew. Move to Canada.


----------



## JStone

Monnagonna said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> So stop jewing me then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056511-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053445-post240.html
> 
> Ow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least I'm not a faggot jew. Move to Canada.
Click to expand...


You're mentally ill, ugly face
http://www.usmessageboard.com/4057331-post48.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/4057316-post46.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053535-post240.html

OWNED


----------



## abu afak

JStone said:


> Monnagonna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JStone said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056511-post453.html http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053445-post240.html
> 
> Ow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least I'm not a faggot jew. Move to Canada.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're mentally ill, ugly face
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/4057331-post48.html
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/4057316-post46.html
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/4056588-post453.html
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/4053535-post240.html
> 
> OWNED
Click to expand...

Thankfully he's a Gonna now.
Not even responsive in strings. Just a flamer.


----------



## abu afak

How True Rosie, How true.



irosie91 said:


> the term  PALESTINIAN  has been in use for many many centuries ---it applied to people LIVING IN PALESTINE-----who  were jews.    No arab was called a
> "palestinian"    until the mid 20th century------codger is a liar      In fact it precedes  the  "MANDATE"   The word  'palestinian"  also referred to jews
> living in palestine when it was ruled by the Ottomans-----at that time ---only jews      Palestine is simply another word for   Israel/Judea        no matter how the gutless slobs like codger twist and turn-----Palestine = Israel/judea
> and PALESTINIAN----means   JEW  until the word became MISAPPLIED   in the mid 20th century


----------



## Hossfly

artfulcodger said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> How True Rosie, How true.
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the term  PALESTINIAN  has been in use for many many centuries ---it applied to people LIVING IN PALESTINE-----who  were jews.    No arab was called a
> "palestinian"    until the mid 20th century------codger is a liar      In fact it precedes  the  "MANDATE"   The word  'palestinian"  also referred to jews
> living in palestine when it was ruled by the Ottomans-----at that time ---only jews      Palestine is simply another word for   Israel/Judea        no matter how the gutless slobs like codger twist and turn-----Palestine = Israel/judea
> and PALESTINIAN----means   JEW  until the word became MISAPPLIED   in the mid 20th century
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> pity you have no proof of this idiotic claim ratsy-rose...pose the most undemanding of questions here: why would a tiny Jewish minority within a sprawling Arab majority adopt the title "Palestinians"???...face the sobering facts Nazi-lady...you cannot shuffle and re-shape living history to conform to the nefarious Zionist agenda...the Arabs lived on and cultivated the land for centuries...the thuggish Ashkenazi Euro-trash had zero claim or tile...live with it Mrs Gestopo
Click to expand...

Ach, Du lieber Gott, the beloved little Schatzi of the Nazi Bund which meets in the Yorkville section of Manhattan is calling someone Mrs. Gestapo!!!  If Skitzo had only been born sooner,  he would gladly have joined up with the Gestapo during World War II so that he could have had a chance to round up the Jews.  Meanwhile, let me re-post what a retired State Department employee said.
Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.


----------



## abu afak

(Assist AbeBird)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7z0iTIUOoM]Islam's Greatest Invention - Palestinian people - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## toastman

arty the troll with his usual attention whoring !! haha


----------



## longknife

Is this author and website ever going to be attacked? How dare they make such an assertion? It goes against everything the anti-Israel forces have been saying since the '40s. Next thing you know, they will claim the area is such a mess because of outside forces (Israel) and not their own corruption and ineptitude.

_They are a mix of Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Sudanese etc. who settled within the area known as the British Mandate of Palestine. This land encompassed 43,000 square miles and was promised to the Jews as a national homeland in the 1917 Balfour Declaration. Yet, in 1922 the British turned over 75% of it to create the nation of Transjordan, (today’s Jordan). This left roughly 25% or 11,000 square miles of land to be dealt with._

_In 1947 the British decided to leave the area and turned the issue over to the United Nations, which by a 72% majority voted to partition two separate states, one Jewish and one Arab. However, the surrounding Arab nations rejected the vote and attacked the new Jewish state one day after its independence, intending to destroy it. This is all indisputable fact._

Much more of this heretical essay @ Articles: 'Palestinian' Is a Fabricated Nationality


----------



## louie888

You crazy kids and your conspiracy theories. And how many threads do we really need where y'all pretend this crap?


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> You crazy kids and your conspiracy theories. And how many threads do we really need where y'all pretend this crap?



Sorry, clueless. "Pal'istanians" as a national identity was the invention of Yassir Arafat back in the late 1960's.

You need to stick with cutting and pasting cartoons.


----------



## Shusha

"Palestinian" is a fabricated nationality.  But so were all nationalities at the time of their coming into being.  It doesn't matter how or when a nationality is created -- once it is that nationality, and the people who it belongs, has just as much right to it as any other nationality.  None of us gets to choose which nationalities are "valid" and which are not.  Its the self-defining that matters.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

All nationalities are fabricated.


----------



## louie888

Yes, Arafat was behind this grand conspiracy that dated from centuries before Christ.

The discovery of a Philistine cemetery in Israel that was there centuries before Christ

You really need a new conspiracy theory to wrap your mind around as this one is clearly dead.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Yes, Arafat was behind this grand conspiracy that dated from centuries before Christ.
> 
> The discovery of a Philistine cemetery in Israel that was there centuries before Christ
> 
> You really need a new conspiracy theory to wrap your mind around as this one is clearly dead.



You're confused. It's been gone over in excruciating detail but your confusion is expected. Pal'istan was a geographic area. There was never a "country of Pali'land" as you and others would believe.

You need a new conspiracy theory to maintain your delusions.


----------



## fncceo

Luddly Neddite said:


> All nationalities are fabricated.



Not so much fabricated as redefined in the case of Palestinians.

The term Palestinian has had many definitions over the millennia. Originally the Greek word for the Kingdom of Israel during the Hellenic Period.  It was used by the Romans to refer to the Kingdom of Judea, by the Turks and Franks to refer to the occupants of region in general, and during the British Mandate of Palestine, the term referred to any resident of the region .. regardless of religion, race, or ethnicity.  Jews were Palestinians, as were Copts and Arabs and anyone else living there.

It wasn't until the rise of a Palestinian resistance movement (separate from the Arab States) that the term Palestinian took on it's current definition of Arab only.

So, to say there was never a nation called Palestine isn't technically true.  Palestine did exist as a sovereign Jewish nation from the 2nd Century BCE until the Roman Conquest of culminating in 70CE.  Since then, until 1948, the region called Palestine was territory occupied for centuries by a dozen different kingdoms, not sovereign, but the territory of those kingdoms.  The people in it were, for all that time, referred to as 'Palestinians'.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You crazy kids and your conspiracy theories. And how many threads do we really need where y'all pretend this crap?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, clueless. "Pal'istanians" as a national identity was the invention of Yassir Arafat back in the late 1960's.
> 
> You need to stick with cutting and pasting cartoons.
Click to expand...

1960's? Israel's usual bullshit.
------------------------
The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens."​




Geographical designation, not nationality arising from a distinct people.  As evidenced by the ensuing conflict.  There was certainly a Jewish nationality at the time.  But in the 1920's there was no specific Arab Palestinian nationality as distinct from general regional Arab nationality.  

Had there been no Jewish influence at all, it seems to me that the Palestinians would have had no cause to differentiate themselves from Syria and/or Jordan, but would have contentedly joined one or the other.  Easily evidenced by the common assertion from Palestinians that there is no difference between them and their neighboring Syrians and Jordanians.​


----------



## montelatici

The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.



Was that after the invasion by the colonizing xtian Crusaders?


----------



## P F Tinmore

fncceo said:


> during the British Mandate of Palestine, the term referred to any resident of the region .. regardless of religion, race, or ethnicity. Jews were Palestinians, as were Copts and Arabs and anyone else living there.


Indeed, and it was all settled after WWI when everyone living there (Muslims, Christians, and Jews) became citizens of the new state.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that after the invasion by the colonizing xtian Crusaders?
Click to expand...


What hypocricy by monte!!  The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal country but not the modern state of Israel?  The current Jews are colonizers but the Christian Crusaders were not?  

As for your other assertion, Lebanon was separated from Syria because of its large Christian population (which the Muslims have since decimated), but that was not the case with Palestine.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that after the invasion by the colonizing xtian Crusaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What hypocricy by monte!!  The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal country but not the modern state of Israel?  The current Jews are colonizers but the Christian Crusaders were not?
> 
> As for your other assertion, Lebanon was separated from Syria because of its large Christian population (which the Muslims have since decimated), but that was not the case with Palestine.
Click to expand...


Where have I said that the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal state and Israel is not?  You must be confusing me with someone else.

The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.  The Zionists expelled the native inhabitants, to settle their population there.  There is a difference. 

Palestine had a large Christian population before the Zionists arrived, as many as 20% were Christian.  And, the Kudus Special District (Palestine) was ruled directly from Istanbul, unlike Syria.  It's just an historical fact.  

Lebanon was split from Syria by the French, not the Ottomans, get your history straight.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.



Wait, what?!  Ruling over the existing native inhabitants is legit? Cool.  Then you can no longer complain about "apartheid".  Jew rule, as you call it, is totally legit, right?


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  Ruling over the existing native inhabitants is legit? Cool.  Then you can no longer complain about "apartheid".  Jew rule, as you call it, is totally legit, right?
Click to expand...


Apartheid South Africa was a legal state recognized by other states.  And, of course the manner in which the Jews invaded and colonized Palestine, evicting and.or murdering the native population,  was just as despicable as other settler colonial invasions, e.g. Algeria, Rhodesia, South Africa, etc.


----------



## yiostheoy

longknife said:


> Is this author and website ever going to be attacked? How dare they make such an assertion? It goes against everything the anti-Israel forces have been saying since the '40s. Next thing you know, they will claim the area is such a mess because of outside forces (Israel) and not their own corruption and ineptitude.
> 
> _They are a mix of Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Sudanese etc. who settled within the area known as the British Mandate of Palestine. This land encompassed 43,000 square miles and was promised to the Jews as a national homeland in the 1917 Balfour Declaration. Yet, in 1922 the British turned over 75% of it to create the nation of Transjordan, (today’s Jordan). This left roughly 25% or 11,000 square miles of land to be dealt with._
> 
> _In 1947 the British decided to leave the area and turned the issue over to the United Nations, which by a 72% majority voted to partition two separate states, one Jewish and one Arab. However, the surrounding Arab nations rejected the vote and attacked the new Jewish state one day after its independence, intending to destroy it. This is all indisputable fact._
> 
> Much more of this heretical essay @ Articles: 'Palestinian' Is a Fabricated Nationality


So why are you repeating their drivel ??

Ignore list.


----------



## Roudy

longknife said:


> Is this author and website ever going to be attacked? How dare they make such an assertion? It goes against everything the anti-Israel forces have been saying since the '40s. Next thing you know, they will claim the area is such a mess because of outside forces (Israel) and not their own corruption and ineptitude.
> 
> _They are a mix of Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Sudanese etc. who settled within the area known as the British Mandate of Palestine. This land encompassed 43,000 square miles and was promised to the Jews as a national homeland in the 1917 Balfour Declaration. Yet, in 1922 the British turned over 75% of it to create the nation of Transjordan, (today’s Jordan). This left roughly 25% or 11,000 square miles of land to be dealt with._
> 
> _In 1947 the British decided to leave the area and turned the issue over to the United Nations, which by a 72% majority voted to partition two separate states, one Jewish and one Arab. However, the surrounding Arab nations rejected the vote and attacked the new Jewish state one day after its independence, intending to destroy it. This is all indisputable fact._
> 
> Much more of this heretical essay @ Articles: 'Palestinian' Is a Fabricated Nationality


Arab leaders and respected historians and figures said exactly that, back then.  They shunned the idea of the existence of a Palestine or Palestinian people, because up to the 1960's the term "Palestinian" meant that you're a Jew, which was insulting to the Arabs!


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what?!  Ruling over the existing native inhabitants is legit? Cool.  Then you can no longer complain about "apartheid".  Jew rule, as you call it, is totally legit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apartheid South Africa was a legal state recognized by other states.  And, of course the manner in which the Jews invaded and colonized Palestine, evicting and.or murdering the native population,  was just as despicable as other settler colonial invasions, e.g. Algeria, Rhodesia, South Africa, etc.
Click to expand...

Yawn, same repetitive shitspam, different thread.  Was the topic "apartheid", no it wasn't.


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that after the invasion by the colonizing xtian Crusaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What hypocricy by monte!!  The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal country but not the modern state of Israel?  The current Jews are colonizers but the Christian Crusaders were not?
> 
> As for your other assertion, Lebanon was separated from Syria because of its large Christian population (which the Muslims have since decimated), but that was not the case with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where have I said that the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal state and Israel is not?  You must be confusing me with someone else.
> 
> The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.  The Zionists expelled the native inhabitants, to settle their population there.  There is a difference.
> 
> Palestine had a large Christian population before the Zionists arrived, as many as 20% were Christian.  And, the Kudus Special District (Palestine) was ruled directly from Istanbul, unlike Syria.  It's just an historical fact.
> 
> Lebanon was split from Syria by the French, not the Ottomans, get your history straight.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha!  It said "the Crusaders 'arrived' to rule over..."!  
Never in my life have I seen  someone so full of ignorance and hate.


----------



## Lipush

louie888 said:


> Yes, Arafat was behind this grand conspiracy that dated from centuries before Christ.
> 
> The discovery of a Philistine cemetery in Israel that was there centuries before Christ
> 
> You really need a new conspiracy theory to wrap your mind around as this one is clearly dead.



Stop with the conspiracy theories! calls the guy who *said The Mossad is the one firing rockets on Israeli civilians and blaming Hamas.*


----------



## Lipush

And to the point, sadly, they're here now, and they're not walking away, just like we won't. So let's hope Israel will get both a wise and fearless leader to solve this conflict once and for all.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that after the invasion by the colonizing xtian Crusaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What hypocricy by monte!!  The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal country but not the modern state of Israel?  The current Jews are colonizers but the Christian Crusaders were not?
> 
> As for your other assertion, Lebanon was separated from Syria because of its large Christian population (which the Muslims have since decimated), but that was not the case with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where have I said that the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal state and Israel is not?  You must be confusing me with someone else.
> 
> The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.  The Zionists expelled the native inhabitants, to settle their population there.  There is a difference.
> 
> Palestine had a large Christian population before the Zionists arrived, as many as 20% were Christian.  And, the Kudus Special District (Palestine) was ruled directly from Istanbul, unlike Syria.  It's just an historical fact.
> 
> Lebanon was split from Syria by the French, not the Ottomans, get your history straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha ha!  It said "the Crusaders 'arrived' to rule over..."!
> Never in my life have I seen  someone so full of ignorance and hate.
Click to expand...


What do you think the Crusaders did?  You are so blinded by propaganda you deny the most basic historical facts.

Fortunately, reports of the status of the Holy Land were regularly sent to Rome wherein the Latin crusader rulers reported on the indigenous people they ruled over. That's how we also know who the indigenous people were, i.e. the people that had converted to Eastern Orthodox Christianity centuries before. It is called source documentation from official reports.  Something you know nothing of.

 "It is also from the late 12th century onward that we start to see textual categorizations of the *subject peoples.* Latin pilgrimage accounts had already from midcentury drawn attention to the multiplicity of confessions and faiths to be found in the Holy Land. A text probably written in response to a request for information about the current state of the Holy Land from the papal curia in the 1180s, the Tractatus de statu et populo terrae sanctae, lists the indigenous Christian peoples according to theology, language, custom and also to some extent appearance: hair styles and head-coverings being particularly significant."

http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/normaned...ranks and Natives in the Crusader States'.pdf


----------



## abu afak

Penelope said:


> I do believe Palestinians are real people  even include some Jews. The jews came from Europe, Germany, Poland, Russia and Ukraine. The Palestinians never left. How would you like the Indians to take the US back and say us European whites do not belong here? Israel was to be set up as a secular state, not a jewish one, Russia is the third most spoken language in Israel.





abu afak said:


> "Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda...
> As has been noted many times before, *prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis,
> the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews,* with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.
> - David Basch
> 
> 
> "...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. *They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," *while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
> The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
> It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
> Far better to Invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," -
> a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."
> - westerndefense.org
> 
> 
> "There is NO language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
> *There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
> Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)*, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
> Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
> But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness.
> No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""
> - Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist
> 
> 
> So before the creation of the State of Israel, who were the Palestinians?
> ANSWER:
> Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST;
> the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE;
> Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK;
> the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY;
> there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and.... the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC.
> *All these were JEWISH organizations. *
> In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG"
> In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions.
> "Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine.
> *The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a Recent phenomenon.
> Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another Decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.*
> - 'Palestinians' - The Peace FAQ
> -
> -


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> How True Rosie, How true.
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the term  PALESTINIAN  has been in use for many many centuries ---it applied to people LIVING IN PALESTINE-----who  were jews.    No arab was called a
> "palestinian"    until the mid 20th century------codger is a liar      In fact it precedes  the  "MANDATE"   The word  'palestinian"  also referred to jews
> living in palestine when it was ruled by the Ottomans-----at that time ---only jews      Palestine is simply another word for   Israel/Judea        no matter how the gutless slobs like codger twist and turn-----Palestine = Israel/judea
> and PALESTINIAN----means   JEW  until the word became MISAPPLIED   in the mid 20th century
Click to expand...


There were Palestine was populated with Christians from when Christianity became the state religion of Rome around 350 AD through to the Muslim conquest.  After which most of the population converted to Islam over the centuries, except for a century when Palestine reverted to Christianity during the reign of the Latin Kingdon of Jerusalem.  You people are dimwits.


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> How True Rosie, How true.
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the term  PALESTINIAN  has been in use for many many centuries ---it applied to people LIVING IN PALESTINE-----who  were jews.    No arab was called a
> "palestinian"    until the mid 20th century------codger is a liar      In fact it precedes  the  "MANDATE"   The word  'palestinian"  also referred to jews
> living in palestine when it was ruled by the Ottomans-----at that time ---only jews      Palestine is simply another word for   Israel/Judea        no matter how the gutless slobs like codger twist and turn-----Palestine = Israel/judea
> and PALESTINIAN----means   JEW  until the word became MISAPPLIED   in the mid 20th century
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were Palestine was populated with Christians from when Christianity became the state religion of Rome around 350 AD through to the Muslim conquest.  After which most of the population converted to Islam over the centuries, except for a century when Palestine reverted to Christianity during the reign of the Latin Kingdon of Jerusalem.  You people are dimwits.
Click to expand...

And Palestine had reached 25% Jewish in the late 16th/early 17th Century.
The Ottomans decided to move some around for settlement purpose. Crete, etc.
`


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> How True Rosie, How true.
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the term  PALESTINIAN  has been in use for many many centuries ---it applied to people LIVING IN PALESTINE-----who  were jews.    No arab was called a
> "palestinian"    until the mid 20th century------codger is a liar      In fact it precedes  the  "MANDATE"   The word  'palestinian"  also referred to jews
> living in palestine when it was ruled by the Ottomans-----at that time ---only jews      Palestine is simply another word for   Israel/Judea        no matter how the gutless slobs like codger twist and turn-----Palestine = Israel/judea
> and PALESTINIAN----means   JEW  until the word became MISAPPLIED   in the mid 20th century
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were Palestine was populated with Christians from when Christianity became the state religion of Rome around 350 AD through to the Muslim conquest.  After which most of the population converted to Islam over the centuries, except for a century when Palestine reverted to Christianity during the reign of the Latin Kingdon of Jerusalem.  You people are dimwits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Palestine had reached 25% Jewish in the late 16th/early 17th Century.
> The Ottomans decided to move some around for settlement purpose. Crete, etc.
> `
Click to expand...


Palestine had no Jews to speak of in the 16th or 17th century you idiot.


----------



## Hossfly

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> How True Rosie, How true.
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the term  PALESTINIAN  has been in use for many many centuries ---it applied to people LIVING IN PALESTINE-----who  were jews.    No arab was called a
> "palestinian"    until the mid 20th century------codger is a liar      In fact it precedes  the  "MANDATE"   The word  'palestinian"  also referred to jews
> living in palestine when it was ruled by the Ottomans-----at that time ---only jews      Palestine is simply another word for   Israel/Judea        no matter how the gutless slobs like codger twist and turn-----Palestine = Israel/judea
> and PALESTINIAN----means   JEW  until the word became MISAPPLIED   in the mid 20th century
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were Palestine was populated with Christians from when Christianity became the state religion of Rome around 350 AD through to the Muslim conquest.  After which most of the population converted to Islam over the centuries, except for a century when Palestine reverted to Christianity during the reign of the Latin Kingdon of Jerusalem.  You people are dimwits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And Palestine had reached 25% Jewish in the late 16th/early 17th Century.
> The Ottomans decided to move some around for settlement purpose. Crete, etc.
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestine had no Jews to speak of in the 16th or 17th century you idiot.
Click to expand...

How d'ya like my new sig, Goombah?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Hossfly said:


> artfulcodger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> How True Rosie, How true.
> 
> 
> 
> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the term  PALESTINIAN  has been in use for many many centuries ---it applied to people LIVING IN PALESTINE-----who  were jews.    No arab was called a
> "palestinian"    until the mid 20th century------codger is a liar      In fact it precedes  the  "MANDATE"   The word  'palestinian"  also referred to jews
> living in palestine when it was ruled by the Ottomans-----at that time ---only jews      Palestine is simply another word for   Israel/Judea        no matter how the gutless slobs like codger twist and turn-----Palestine = Israel/judea
> and PALESTINIAN----means   JEW  until the word became MISAPPLIED   in the mid 20th century
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> pity you have no proof of this idiotic claim ratsy-rose...pose the most undemanding of questions here: why would a tiny Jewish minority within a sprawling Arab majority adopt the title "Palestinians"???...face the sobering facts Nazi-lady...you cannot shuffle and re-shape living history to conform to the nefarious Zionist agenda...the Arabs lived on and cultivated the land for centuries...the thuggish Ashkenazi Euro-trash had zero claim or tile...live with it Mrs Gestopo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ach, Du lieber Gott, the beloved little Schatzi of the Nazi Bund which meets in the Yorkville section of Manhattan is calling someone Mrs. Gestapo!!!  If Skitzo had only been born sooner,  he would gladly have joined up with the Gestapo during World War II so that he could have had a chance to round up the Jews.  Meanwhile, let me re-post what a retired State Department employee said.
> Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.
Click to expand...

That's right.


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> *Palestine had no Jews to speak of in the 16th or 17th century you idiot.*


Wrong/Stupid/anti-semitic.. as usual

History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia

*"...The 16th-century nevertheless saw a resurgence of Jewish life in Palestine. *Palestinian rabbis were instrumental producing a universally accepted manual of Jewish law and some of the most beautiful liturgical poems. Much of this activity occurred at Safed which had become a spiritual centre, a haven for mystics. Joseph Karo's comprehensive guide to Jewish law, the _Shulchan Aruch_, was considered so authoritative that the variant customs of German-Polish Jewry were merely added as supplement glosses.[125] Some of the most celebrated hymns were written in Safed by poets such as Israel Najara and Solomon Alkabetz.[126] The town was also a centre of Jewish mysticism, notable kabbalists included Moses Cordovero and the German-born Naphtali Hertz ben Jacob Elhanan.[127][ A new method of understanding the kabbalah was developed by Palestinian mystic Isaac Luria, and espoused by his student Chaim Vital. In Safed, the Jews developed a number of branches of trade, especially in grain, spices, textiles and dyeing.

In 1577, a Hebrew printing press was established in Safed. *The 8,000 or 10,000 Jews in Safed in 1555 grew to 20,000 or 30,000 by the end of the century.*

*In around 1563, Joseph Nasi secured permission from Sultan Selim II to acquire Tiberias and seven surrounding villages to create a Jewish city-state.* [130] He hoped that large numbers of Jewish refugees and Marranos would settle there, free from fear and oppression; indeed, the persecuted Jews of Cori, Italy, numbering about 200 souls, decided to emigrate to Tiberias.[131] Nasi had the walls of the town rebuilt by 1564 and attempted to turn it into a self-sufficient textile manufacturing center by planting mulberry trees for the cultivation of silk. Nevertheless, a number of factors during the following years contributed to the plan's ultimate failure. Nasi's aunt, Doña Gracia Mendes Nasi supported a _yeshiva_ in the town for many years until her death in 1569.[133]

In 1567, a Yemenite scholar and Rabbi, Zechariah Dhahiri, visited Safed and wrote of his experiences in a book entitled _Sefer Ha-Musar_. His vivid descriptions of the town Safed and of Rabbi Joseph Karo's _yeshiva_ are of primary importance to historians, seeing that they are a first-hand account of these places, and the only extant account which describes the _yeshiva_ of the great Sephardic Rabbi, Joseph Karo.[134]

In 1576, the Jewish community of Safed faced an expulsion order: 1,000 prosperous families were to be deported to Cyprus, "for the good of the said island", with another 500 the following year.[135] The order was later rescinded due to the realisation of the financial gains of Jewish rental income.[136] In 1586, the Jews of Istanbul agreed to build a fortified _khan_ to provide a refuge for Safed's Jews against "night bandits and armed thieves."[135]
[.....]​And it grew further
cont'd

In 1610, the Yochanan ben Zakai Synagogue in Jerusalem was completed.[137] It became the main synagogue of the Sephardic Jews, the place where their chief rabbi was invested. The adjacent study hall which had been added by 1625 later became the Synagogue of Elijah the Prophet.[137]

In the 1648–1654 Khmelnytsky Uprising in Ukraine over 100,000 Jews were massacred, leading to some migration to Israel. In 1660 (or 1662), the majorly Jewish towns of Safed and Tiberias are destroyed by the Druze, following a power struggle in Galilee.[138][139][140][141][142][143][144].....​


----------



## abu afak

Pt 2 of Destruction of Mont-al-Cheeti.



abu afak said:


> *And Palestine had reached 25% Jewish in the late 16th/early 17th Century.
> ....*





montelatici said:


> *Palestine had no Jews to speak of in the 16th or 17th century you idiot.*


Formerly Wikipedia, now on many of it's Mirror Websites.
History of the Southern Levant

*Ottoman Period 1517-1917*

In 1516 the Ottoman Turks occupied Palestine.[14] The country became part of the Ottoman Empire. Constantinople appointed local governors. Public works, including the city walls, were rebuilt in Jerusalem by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. An area around Tiberias was given to Don Joseph HaNasi for a Jewish enclave. 
*Following the expulsions from Spain, the Jewish population of Palestine rose to around 25%* (includes non-Ottoman citizens, excludes Bedouin) and regained its former stronghold of Eastern Galilee. That ended in 1660 when they were massacred at Safed and Jerusalem. During the reign of Dahar al Omar, Pasha of the Galilee, Jews from Ukraine began to resettle Tiberias.".."​

That's what 100% Rebuttal looks like.
It's such a Monumental Misimpression/Fundamental error/LIE, Mont-al-cheeti should change his opinion of the conflict!
*As I always say Cheeti...*
*You CANNOT Debate me. *
*Period.*
*`*


----------



## esthermoon

abu afak said:


> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*


The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine had no Jews to speak of in the 16th or 17th century you idiot.*
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong/Stupid/anti-semitic.. as usual
> 
> History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> *"...The 16th-century nevertheless saw a resurgence of Jewish life in Palestine. *Palestinian rabbis were instrumental producing a universally accepted manual of Jewish law and some of the most beautiful liturgical poems. Much of this activity occurred at Safed which had become a spiritual centre, a haven for mystics. Joseph Karo's comprehensive guide to Jewish law, the _Shulchan Aruch_, was considered so authoritative that the variant customs of German-Polish Jewry were merely added as supplement glosses.[125] Some of the most celebrated hymns were written in Safed by poets such as Israel Najara and Solomon Alkabetz.[126] The town was also a centre of Jewish mysticism, notable kabbalists included Moses Cordovero and the German-born Naphtali Hertz ben Jacob Elhanan.[127][ A new method of understanding the kabbalah was developed by Palestinian mystic Isaac Luria, and espoused by his student Chaim Vital. In Safed, the Jews developed a number of branches of trade, especially in grain, spices, textiles and dyeing.
> 
> In 1577, a Hebrew printing press was established in Safed. *The 8,000 or 10,000 Jews in Safed in 1555 grew to 20,000 or 30,000 by the end of the century.*
> 
> *In around 1563, Joseph Nasi secured permission from Sultan Selim II to acquire Tiberias and seven surrounding villages to create a Jewish city-state.* [130] He hoped that large numbers of Jewish refugees and Marranos would settle there, free from fear and oppression; indeed, the persecuted Jews of Cori, Italy, numbering about 200 souls, decided to emigrate to Tiberias.[131] Nasi had the walls of the town rebuilt by 1564 and attempted to turn it into a self-sufficient textile manufacturing center by planting mulberry trees for the cultivation of silk. Nevertheless, a number of factors during the following years contributed to the plan's ultimate failure. Nasi's aunt, Doña Gracia Mendes Nasi supported a _yeshiva_ in the town for many years until her death in 1569.[133]
> 
> In 1567, a Yemenite scholar and Rabbi, Zechariah Dhahiri, visited Safed and wrote of his experiences in a book entitled _Sefer Ha-Musar_. His vivid descriptions of the town Safed and of Rabbi Joseph Karo's _yeshiva_ are of primary importance to historians, seeing that they are a first-hand account of these places, and the only extant account which describes the _yeshiva_ of the great Sephardic Rabbi, Joseph Karo.[134]
> 
> In 1576, the Jewish community of Safed faced an expulsion order: 1,000 prosperous families were to be deported to Cyprus, "for the good of the said island", with another 500 the following year.[135] The order was later rescinded due to the realisation of the financial gains of Jewish rental income.[136] In 1586, the Jews of Istanbul agreed to build a fortified _khan_ to provide a refuge for Safed's Jews against "night bandits and armed thieves."[135]
> [.....]​And it grew further
> cont'd
> 
> In 1610, the Yochanan ben Zakai Synagogue in Jerusalem was completed.[137] It became the main synagogue of the Sephardic Jews, the place where their chief rabbi was invested. The adjacent study hall which had been added by 1625 later became the Synagogue of Elijah the Prophet.[137]
> 
> In the 1648–1654 Khmelnytsky Uprising in Ukraine over 100,000 Jews were massacred, leading to some migration to Israel. In 1660 (or 1662), the majorly Jewish towns of Safed and Tiberias are destroyed by the Druze, following a power struggle in Galilee.[138][139][140][141][142][143][144].....​
Click to expand...


You are nuts.  Do you think anyone believes the Hasbara edited Wiki entries regarding Jews and Zionism?

That's just Hasbara propaganda.  There were hardly any Jews in Ottoman Palestine until the Zionist invasion. Those that practiced Judaism had  converted to Christianity centuries before.


----------



## P F Tinmore

esthermoon said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
Click to expand...

Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag


----------



## Challenger

Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant

The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced. 

This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of otal households registered).


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Palestine had no Jews to speak of in the 16th or 17th century you idiot.*
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong/Stupid/anti-semitic.. as usual
> 
> History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia
> 
> *"...The 16th-century nevertheless saw a resurgence of Jewish life in Palestine. *Palestinian rabbis were instrumental producing a universally accepted manual of Jewish law and some of the most beautiful liturgical poems. Much of this activity occurred at Safed which had become a spiritual centre, a haven for mystics. Joseph Karo's comprehensive guide to Jewish law, the _Shulchan Aruch_, was considered so authoritative that the variant customs of German-Polish Jewry were merely added as supplement glosses.[125] Some of the most celebrated hymns were written in Safed by poets such as Israel Najara and Solomon Alkabetz.[126] The town was also a centre of Jewish mysticism, notable kabbalists included Moses Cordovero and the German-born Naphtali Hertz ben Jacob Elhanan.[127][ A new method of understanding the kabbalah was developed by Palestinian mystic Isaac Luria, and espoused by his student Chaim Vital. In Safed, the Jews developed a number of branches of trade, especially in grain, spices, textiles and dyeing.
> 
> In 1577, a Hebrew printing press was established in Safed. *The 8,000 or 10,000 Jews in Safed in 1555 grew to 20,000 or 30,000 by the end of the century.*
> 
> *In around 1563, Joseph Nasi secured permission from Sultan Selim II to acquire Tiberias and seven surrounding villages to create a Jewish city-state.* [130] He hoped that large numbers of Jewish refugees and Marranos would settle there, free from fear and oppression; indeed, the persecuted Jews of Cori, Italy, numbering about 200 souls, decided to emigrate to Tiberias.[131] Nasi had the walls of the town rebuilt by 1564 and attempted to turn it into a self-sufficient textile manufacturing center by planting mulberry trees for the cultivation of silk. Nevertheless, a number of factors during the following years contributed to the plan's ultimate failure. Nasi's aunt, Doña Gracia Mendes Nasi supported a _yeshiva_ in the town for many years until her death in 1569.[133]
> 
> In 1567, a Yemenite scholar and Rabbi, Zechariah Dhahiri, visited Safed and wrote of his experiences in a book entitled _Sefer Ha-Musar_. His vivid descriptions of the town Safed and of Rabbi Joseph Karo's _yeshiva_ are of primary importance to historians, seeing that they are a first-hand account of these places, and the only extant account which describes the _yeshiva_ of the great Sephardic Rabbi, Joseph Karo.[134]
> 
> In 1576, the Jewish community of Safed faced an expulsion order: 1,000 prosperous families were to be deported to Cyprus, "for the good of the said island", with another 500 the following year.[135] The order was later rescinded due to the realisation of the financial gains of Jewish rental income.[136] In 1586, the Jews of Istanbul agreed to build a fortified _khan_ to provide a refuge for Safed's Jews against "night bandits and armed thieves."[135]
> [.....]​And it grew further
> cont'd
> 
> In 1610, the Yochanan ben Zakai Synagogue in Jerusalem was completed.[137] It became the main synagogue of the Sephardic Jews, the place where their chief rabbi was invested. The adjacent study hall which had been added by 1625 later became the Synagogue of Elijah the Prophet.[137]
> 
> In the 1648–1654 Khmelnytsky Uprising in Ukraine over 100,000 Jews were massacred, leading to some migration to Israel. In 1660 (or 1662), the majorly Jewish towns of Safed and Tiberias are destroyed by the Druze, following a power struggle in Galilee.[138][139][140][141][142][143][144].....​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are nuts.  Do you think anyone believes the Hasbara edited Wiki entries regarding Jews and Zionism?
> 
> That's just Hasbara propaganda.  There were hardly any Jews in Ottoman Palestine until the Zionist invasion. Those that practiced Judaism had  converted to Christianity centuries before.
Click to expand...


There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee. 
Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
Click to expand...


No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
Palestinians don't have their own flag.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant
> 
> The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced.
> 
> This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of otal households registered).




So after centuries of wars and inner struggles in Palestine, the Jews were still present?

Those Palestinian Jews...


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
Click to expand...

Arab revolt flag.





Palestinian flag.





The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arab revolt flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.
Click to expand...


Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arab revolt flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
> Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?
Click to expand...

Deflection. What I posted is correct.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arab revolt flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
> Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
Click to expand...


So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?

Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arab revolt flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
> Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
Click to expand...

Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
> 
> 
> 
> Arab revolt flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
> Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
Click to expand...


Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.

So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.

Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.


----------



## abu afak

Challenger said:


> Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant
> The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced.
> This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of otal households registered).


My posts are sourced and Footnoted. Even the one you acknowledge, says the Jews in Safed alone were up to 30,000 of app 200,000 population/15% by 1600, and there were other Jewish areas, and it of course grewe further until 1660...
Completely validating my numbers.

But just using Safed-1600 alone, your Lying number "3%" would make Palestine's population at least 1 Million instead of the 200,000 it was.
It didn't hit 1 Million until 1930!
LOFL Adolph.
That's what JOO HATE does to you Adolph. Makes an obvious Liar.
I Hate Liars like you and Mont _el _tici (who said there were virtually No Jews), and I'm Porking your Lying asses.
`


----------



## montelatici

You are just posting Hasbara propaganda.  There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion. Source documents are great, they show how everything the ZioNazis post is fake news.

*"AN INTERIM REPORT*​*ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF​*​*PALESTINE,​*​*during the period
1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921.​*

*AN INTERIM REPORT*​*ON THE
CIVIL ADMINISTRATION
OF
PALESTINE.​*
*I.--THE CONDITION OF PALESTINE AFTER THE WAR.*


The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."


https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/349B02280A930813052565E90048ED1C


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arab revolt flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
> Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
Click to expand...

The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
> Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
Click to expand...


Citizens of the Magical Kingdom of Disney  PallyLand.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
Click to expand...


Erm...the flag of the Arab revolt was bands of Black Green and White from top to bottom with a Red triangle at the staff end. Flag of the Arab Revolt - Wikipedia

The flag in the photo, although in monochrome, there is no way the bottom band is white, so I think you are mistaken.


----------



## Challenger

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Filealestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> File: *Palestine-Mandate-Ensign-1927-1948.svg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The British Palestine "national" flag was the blue one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa, 1937, flying Palestinian flag
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, this is a flag of the Arab Revolt, designed by the British diplomat Sir Mark Sykes.
> This same flag was used by the Sharif and Emir of Mecca some 21 years before that.
> Palestinians don't have their own flag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arab revolt flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The flag on the Al Hambra is Palestinian. It is black, white, green.
Click to expand...

Got there before me, darn it!  Another Hasbara fail!


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
> Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.



This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Citizens of the Magical Kingdom of Disney  PallyLand.
Click to expand...


Another hollow post from Hollie, nothing of substance, moving on...


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant
> 
> The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced.
> 
> This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of total households registered).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So after centuries of wars and inner struggles in Palestine, the Jews were still present?
> 
> Those Palestinian Jews...
Click to expand...


No-one has ever said that judaism was completely eradicated from the region; it's impossible to eradicate an idea. That said, most of the Jewish population in the 16th and 17th Centuries were religious immigrants from Spain and other parts of Europe,so were never actually indigenous then, just like now. The whole Zionist concept of "return" and "redemption" is a just myth used to justify the appropriation of territory.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Citizens of the Magical Kingdom of Disney  PallyLand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another hollow post from Hollie, nothing of substance, moving on...
Click to expand...

More pointless taqiyya from the spammer.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?



Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant
> 
> The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced.
> 
> This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of total households registered).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So after centuries of wars and inner struggles in Palestine, the Jews were still present?
> 
> Those Palestinian Jews...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No-one has ever said that judaism was completely eradicated from the region; it's impossible to eradicate an idea. That said, most of the Jewish population in the 16th and 17th Centuries were religious immigrants from Spain and other parts of Europe,so were never actually indigenous then, just like now. The whole Zionist concept of "return" and "redemption" is a just myth used to justify the appropriation of territory.
Click to expand...


".... because the prayer leader at the madrassah told me so."

There. Fixed that for you, muhammud.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
Click to expand...


How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions. 

You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.


----------



## Challenger

abu afak said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant
> The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced.
> This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of otal households registered).
> 
> 
> 
> My posts are sourced and Footnoted. Even the one you acknowledge, says the Jews in Safed alone were up to 30,000 of app 200,000 population/15% by 1600, and there were other Jewish areas, and it of course grewe further until 1660...
> Completely validating my numbers.
> 
> But just using Safed-1600 alone, your Lying number "3%" would make Palestine's population at least 1 Million instead of the 200,000 it was.
> It didn't hit 1 Million until 1930!
> LOFL Adolph.
> That's what JOO HATE does to you Adolph. Makes an obvious Liar.
> I Hate Liars like you and Mont _el _tici (who said there were virtually No Jews), and I'm Porking your Lying asses.
> `
Click to expand...


Nice try attempting to extrapolate figures for Tiberias and Safed, throughout the whole region. Those two cities were the main population centres; Jerusalem itself only had  0.06%  of total households registered as "Jewish", Hebron 0.03%, Nablus 0.0009%, and Acre 0.0016%

The number of households registered as Jewish by the Ottomans overall, comprised 0.03% of all households registered in the region.

Your post may well be sourced and footnoted, but the article itself failed to live up to Wikipedia standards on *reliable* references and there was no supporting data presented to quatify the assertion that 25% of the population of Palestine were Jewish at that time.


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Citizens of the Magical Kingdom of Disney  PallyLand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another hollow post from Hollie, nothing of substance, moving on...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More pointless taqiyya from the spammer.
Click to expand...

Whatever...moving on.


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
Click to expand...

Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease! 

Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
Click to expand...

Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists. 

As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
Click to expand...

The most unique thing about Palestine is its diversity in race, religion, and culture.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The most unique thing about Palestine is its diversity in race, religion, and culture.
Click to expand...


As the self-designated spokes-turban for the arabs-moslems, you need to keep up. The most unique thing about middle Eastern Islamist fascism is its relation to Arab'ism. Just ask your heroes in the PLO. 

From the 1968 charter:

*Article 1:*
Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.


Not much allowance there for your phony claims to "diversity...."


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
Click to expand...


...and straight back to the vacuous and insubstantial hate filled drivel Hollie is famous for posting, hey-ho. Clearly she has nothing of substance to contribute. Next.


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The most unique thing about Palestine is its diversity in race, religion, and culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the self-designated spokes-turban for the arabs-moslems, you need to keep up. The most unique thing about middle Eastern Islamist fascism is its relation to Arab'ism. Just ask your heroes in the PLO.
> 
> From the 1968 charter:
> 
> *Article 1:*
> Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
> 
> 
> Not much allowance there for your phony claims to "diversity...."
Click to expand...


Looks like "Stuck in the sixties" is not the only Hasbara troll here stuck in the 60's; now we have Hollie too. Next.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...and straight back to the vacuous and insubstantial hate filled drivel Hollie is famous for posting, hey-ho. Clearly she has nothing of substance to contribute. Next.
Click to expand...

And here you are, as usual, unable to substantiate your baseless claims so you're left to childish tantrums.

Time out for, Mo'. Off to your room. Scoot.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The most unique thing about Palestine is its diversity in race, religion, and culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the self-designated spokes-turban for the arabs-moslems, you need to keep up. The most unique thing about middle Eastern Islamist fascism is its relation to Arab'ism. Just ask your heroes in the PLO.
> 
> From the 1968 charter:
> 
> *Article 1:*
> Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
> 
> 
> Not much allowance there for your phony claims to "diversity...."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looks like "Stuck in the sixties" is not the only Hasbara troll here stuck in the 60's; now we have Hollie too. Next.
Click to expand...


Looks like the angry, self-hater is left befuddled and unable to do anything but copy and paste slogans.


----------



## abu afak

Challenger said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant
> The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced.
> This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of otal households registered).
> 
> 
> 
> My posts are sourced and Footnoted. Even the one you acknowledge, says the Jews in Safed alone were up to 30,000 of app 200,000 population/15% by 1600, and there were other Jewish areas, and it of course grewe further until 1660...
> Completely validating my numbers.
> 
> But just using Safed-1600 alone, your Lying number "3%" would make Palestine's population at least 1 Million instead of the 200,000 it was.
> It didn't hit 1 Million until 1930!
> LOFL Adolph.
> That's what JOO HATE does to you Adolph. Makes an obvious Liar.
> I Hate Liars like you and Mont _el _tici (who said there were virtually No Jews), and I'm Porking your Lying asses.
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try attempting to extrapolate figures for Tiberias and Safed, throughout the whole region. Those two cities were the main population centres; Jerusalem itself only had  0.06%  of total households registered as "Jewish", Hebron 0.03%, Nablus 0.0009%, and Acre 0.0016%
> 
> The number of households registered as Jewish by the Ottomans overall, comprised 0.03% of all households registered in the region.
> 
> Your post may well be sourced and footnoted, but the article itself failed to live up to Wikipedia standards on *reliable* references and there was no supporting data presented to quatify the assertion that 25% of the population of Palestine were Jewish at that time.
Click to expand...

My posts are sourced and Footnoted. Even the one you acknowledge, says the Jews in Safed alone were up to 30,000 of app 200,000 population/15% by 1600, and there were other Jewish areas, and it of course grewe further until 1660...
Completely validating my numbers.

But just using Safed-1600 alone, your Lying number "3%" would make Palestine's population at least 1 Million instead of the 200,000 it was.
It didn't hit 1 Million until 1930!
LOFL Adolph.
That's what JOO HATE does to you Adolph. Makes an obvious Liar.
I Hate Liars like you and Mont _el _tici (who said there were virtually No Jews), and I'm Porking your Lying asses.


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm...not so much. Your argument is based on an ex-wikipedia article categorised as in "need of cleaning up" and "lacking reliable references from November 2008", without any supporting data presented History of the Southern Levant
> The current Wikipedia article on the Demographic History of Palestine, Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia goes into a lot more detail and is fully referenced.
> This article completely contradicts your hypothesis of the Jewish population of the region being anywhere close to 25%. The data is clear that in terms of total population Jewish people comprised at best 3% in the 16th Century which dwindled to around 0.8% in the 17th century. The only parts of Palestine where there was a Jewish population anywhere close to your 25%, could be found in the cities of Tiberias (35% of total households registered) and Safad (28% of otal households registered).
> 
> 
> 
> My posts are sourced and Footnoted. Even the one you acknowledge, says the Jews in Safed alone were up to 30,000 of app 200,000 population/15% by 1600, and there were other Jewish areas, and it of course grewe further until 1660...
> Completely validating my numbers.
> 
> But just using Safed-1600 alone, your Lying number "3%" would make Palestine's population at least 1 Million instead of the 200,000 it was.
> It didn't hit 1 Million until 1930!
> LOFL Adolph.
> That's what JOO HATE does to you Adolph. Makes an obvious Liar.
> I Hate Liars like you and Mont _el _tici (who said there were virtually No Jews), and I'm Porking your Lying asses.
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try attempting to extrapolate figures for Tiberias and Safed, throughout the whole region. Those two cities were the main population centres; Jerusalem itself only had  0.06%  of total households registered as "Jewish", Hebron 0.03%, Nablus 0.0009%, and Acre 0.0016%
> 
> The number of households registered as Jewish by the Ottomans overall, comprised 0.03% of all households registered in the region.
> 
> Your post may well be sourced and footnoted, but the article itself failed to live up to Wikipedia standards on *reliable* references and there was no supporting data presented to quatify the assertion that 25% of the population of Palestine were Jewish at that time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My posts are sourced and Footnoted. Even the one you acknowledge, says the Jews in Safed alone were up to 30,000 of app 200,000 population/15% by 1600, and there were other Jewish areas, and it of course grewe further until 1660...
> Completely validating my numbers.
> 
> But just using Safed-1600 alone, your Lying number "3%" would make Palestine's population at least 1 Million instead of the 200,000 it was.
> It didn't hit 1 Million until 1930!
> LOFL Adolph.
> That's what JOO HATE does to you Adolph. Makes an obvious Liar.
> I Hate Liars like you and Mont _el _tici (who said there were virtually No Jews), and I'm Porking your Lying asses.
Click to expand...


Your sources are Hasbara sources.  There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> *
> Your sources are Hasbara sources.  There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.*


Be Glad to PORK you again Akhmed.
Neither you nor Adolph/Challenger has any COUNTER sources.
None. You are Both Empty Anti-Semite Clowns
AGAIN:

History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia

*"...The 16th-century nevertheless saw a resurgence of Jewish life in Palestine. *
Palestinian rabbis were instrumental producing a universally accepted manual of Jewish law and some of the most beautiful liturgical poems. Much of this activity occurred at Safed which had become a spiritual centre, a haven for mystics. Joseph Karo's comprehensive guide to Jewish law, the _Shulchan Aruch_, was considered so authoritative that the variant customs of German-Polish Jewry were merely added as supplement glosses.[125] Some of the most celebrated hymns were written in Safed by poets such as Israel Najara and Solomon Alkabetz.[126] The town was also a centre of Jewish mysticism, notable kabbalists included Moses Cordovero and the German-born Naphtali Hertz ben Jacob Elhanan.[127][ A new method of understanding the kabbalah was developed by Palestinian mystic Isaac Luria, and espoused by his student Chaim Vital. In Safed, the Jews developed a number of branches of trade, especially in grain, spices, textiles and dyeing.

In 1577, a Hebrew printing press was established in Safed. *The 8,000 or 10,000 Jews in Safed in 1555 grew to 20,000 or 30,000 by the end of the century.*

*In around 1563, Joseph Nasi secured permission from Sultan Selim II to acquire Tiberias and seven surrounding villages to create a Jewish city-state.* [130] He hoped that large numbers of Jewish refugees and Marranos would settle there, free from fear and oppression; indeed, the persecuted Jews of Cori, Italy, numbering about 200 souls, decided to emigrate to Tiberias.[131] Nasi had the walls of the town rebuilt by 1564 and attempted to turn it into a self-sufficient textile manufacturing center by planting mulberry treesfor the cultivation of silk. Nevertheless, a number of factors during the following years contributed to the plan's ultimate failure. Nasi's aunt, Doña Gracia Mendes Nasi supported a _yeshiva_ in the town for many years until her death in 1569.[133]

In 1567, a Yemenite scholar and Rabbi, Zechariah Dhahiri, visited Safed and wrote of his experiences in a book entitled _Sefer Ha-Musar_. His vivid descriptions of the town Safed and of Rabbi Joseph Karo's _yeshiva_are of primary importance to historians, seeing that they are a first-hand account of these places, and the only extant account which describes the _yeshiva_ of the great Sephardic Rabbi, Joseph Karo.[134]

In 1576, the Jewish community of Safed faced an expulsion order: 1,000 prosperous families were to be deported to Cyprus, "for the good of the said island", with another 500 the following year.[135] The order was later rescinded due to the realisation of the financial gains of Jewish rental income.[136] In 1586, the Jews of Istanbul agreed to build a fortified _khan_ to provide a refuge for Safed's Jews against "night bandits and armed thieves."[135]
[.....]
And it grew further
cont'd

In 1610, the Yochanan ben Zakai Synagogue in Jerusalem was completed.[137] It became the main synagogue of the Sephardic Jews, the place where their chief rabbi was invested. The adjacent study hall which had been added by 1625 later became the Synagogue of Elijah the Prophet.[137]

In the 1648–1654 Khmelnytsky Uprising in Ukraine over 100,000 Jews were massacred, leading to some migration to Israel. In 1660 (or 1662), the majorly Jewish towns of Safed and Tiberias are destroyed by the Druze, following a power struggle in Galilee.[138][139][140][141][142][143][144]....​*
Thanks for the Bump, Page Top, and a reason to show everyone MontelCiti is a SICK Jew-Hating FRAUD.*


----------



## abu afak

Montelatici said:
			
		

> *Your sources are Hasbara sources. There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.*




Formerly Wikipedia, now on many of it's Mirror Websites.
History of the Southern Levant

*Ottoman Period 1517-1917*

In 1516 the Ottoman Turks occupied Palestine.[14] The country became part of the Ottoman Empire. Constantinople appointed local governors. Public works, including the city walls, were rebuilt in Jerusalem by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. An area around Tiberias was given to Don Joseph HaNasi for a Jewish enclave.
*Following the expulsions from Spain, the Jewish population of Palestine rose to around 25%* (includes non-Ottoman citizens, excludes Bedouin) and regained its former stronghold of Eastern Galilee. That ended in 1660 when they were massacred at Safed and Jerusalem. During the reign of Dahar al Omar, Pasha of the Galilee, Jews from Ukraine began to resettle Tiberias.".."​

That's what 100% Rebuttal looks like.
It's such a Monumental Misimpression/Fundamental error/LIE, Mont-al-cheeti should change his opinion of the conflict!
*As I always say Cheeti... You're a FRAUD
You CANNOT Debate me. 
Period.
Your-last-wording has only brought you More embarrassment.
NO rebuttal, just "hasbara" accusation BS.
I'm done with you now BOY, you can pull up your pants.
`*


----------



## montelatici

Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself. 

Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century.  Grow up you silly little twit.

Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)


----------



## abu afak

montelatici said:


> Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
> Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century.  Grow up you silly little twit.
> Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)


You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.

And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
:^)
AS I always say
Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my Bitch.
`


----------



## rylah

abu afak said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
> Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century.  Grow up you silly little twit.
> Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)
> 
> 
> 
> You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
> There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
> You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.
> 
> And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
> :^)
> AS I always say
> Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my Bitch.
> `
Click to expand...


You can look up the special occasions when monte used the "hasbara card' attacking a Palestinian lawyer, advisor to the PLO, who crushed his 'arguments' on the same issue...or being caught photoshoping documents, just to claim later he has "the only true source'.
Some delightful calls for genocide of all non-Christians in Israel and Palestine are there too- just look it up, he enjoys being reminded of that.

BTW did You know our monte has also proclaimed to being "a professor" -serious stuff!
Enjoy


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...and straight back to the vacuous and insubstantial hate filled drivel Hollie is famous for posting, hey-ho. Clearly she has nothing of substance to contribute. Next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And here you are, as usual, unable to substantiate your baseless claims so you're left to childish tantrums.
> 
> Time out for, Mo'. Off to your room. Scoot.
Click to expand...


Probably best you do the same since you are incapable of forming a coherent argument (or post for that matter) that contributes to the discussion in any meaningful way. Just another deluge of hollow Hasbara from Hollie, along with her projection of her own failings on to others, nothing to see here, moving on.


----------



## Challenger

abu afak said:


> There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!



....so how do you arrive at your figure of 30,000 in Safed in 1600?


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.



You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here.  IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted.  *Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.  *


----------



## Challenger

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here.  IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted.  *Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.  *
Click to expand...


No he isn't.

There was no, "removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion" of the native population of Palestine. Empires don't work that way as a rule; they may "remove" trouble makers and threats to public order, i.e. religious zealots, from time to time, so they can govern the majority of the population with varying degrees of authoritarian control and more importantly, from an imperial perspective, continue to obtain tax revenue. Those parts of the population that followed Judaism, often descendants of forced converts themselves, merely changed religions as it suited them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.


They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.

What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Challenger said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here.  IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted.  *Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.  *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No he isn't.
> 
> There was no, "removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion" of the native population of Palestine. Empires don't work that way as a rule; they may "remove" trouble makers and threats to public order, i.e. religious zealots, from time to time, so they can govern the majority of the population with varying degrees of authoritarian control and more importantly, from an imperial perspective, continue to obtain tax revenue. Those parts of the population that followed Judaism, often descendants of forced converts themselves, merely changed religions as it suited them.
Click to expand...

That is true. Colonialism, when an area is conquered, the political and intellectual elites are removed and the rest stay to be exploited.

In settler colonialism, like in Israel, the people are removed and replaced by another people. However, since the advent of international law in the last 100 to 200 years, this practice has become illegal.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were no Jews to speak of in Palestine until the Zionist invasion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fail to understand the premise you are supporting here.  IF there were no Jews to speak of in (territory) -- it is because the Jewish people were (in some arguable combination) pushed out, removed, expelled, cleansed, killed or converted.  *Thus every time you make this argument you are supporting the concept that removal, expulsion, cleansing, genocide or forced conversion is a valid and acceptable method of taking ownership or sovereignty of territory.  *
Click to expand...


There was no expulsion, most of the inhabitants of Palestine converted to Christianity as it was convenient to do so.  Most of the pre-Muslim conquest Christians, who were the overwhelming majority in Palestine, gradually converted to Islam.  Also because it was convenient. Changing religion doesn't change the DNA, don't you get it?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
> Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century.  Grow up you silly little twit.
> Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)
> 
> 
> 
> You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
> There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
> You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.
> 
> And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
> :^)
> AS I always say
> Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my Bitch.
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can look up the special occasions when monte used the "hasbara card' attacking a Palestinian lawyer, advisor to the PLO, who crushed his 'arguments' on the same issue...or being caught photoshoping documents, just to claim later he has "the only true source'.
> Some delightful calls for genocide of all non-Christians in Israel and Palestine are there too- just look it up, he enjoys being reminded of that.
> 
> BTW did You know our monte has also proclaimed to being "a professor" -serious stuff!
> Enjoy
Click to expand...


Yes, look it up.  You are just making things up because the facts overwhelmingly demonstrate that all you know is Zionist propaganda.  My "arguments" have never been "crushed" because I just state the facts.  And, you lying piece of crap, if anyone photoshops documents it is you.  The 2005 map purporting to be a pre-partition map showing Jordan as Arab Palestine, now that was a good one.


----------



## montelatici

abu afak said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
> Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century.  Grow up you silly little twit.
> Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)
> 
> 
> 
> You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
> There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
> You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.
> 
> And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
> :^)
> AS I always say
> Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my Bitch.
> `
Click to expand...


You lost terribly again.  Even moderate Hasbara sources make you look like a fool. But keep it up, you are an entertaining dimwit.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How odd that the taqiyya'ist shuffles around "Pal'istanian" being colonists from Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon and earlier from Turkey, the Roman / European Crusader invasions and even the Mongol invasions.
> 
> You silly madrassah graduates are a hoot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief! Something from Hollie actualy worth a passing serious response, wonders will never cease!
> 
> Perhaps Hollie can provide evidence to corroborate that Mongols actually settled in Palestine after their defeat at Ain Jalut? Or that there was any mass migration of Christian Europeans during the Crudades period, given the Crusader States were always short of manpower and most if not all left when the states were finally conquered? The Romans indeed, ruled the area so there must be records of mass Roman settlement Hollie can cite, as opposed to just military garrisons and administrative elites, all of whom left after the Arab Conquest in any event. Oh yes, the Turks; Ottoman administration of their empire, like those empires that preceeded it relied on installing a thin veneer of administration, along with whatever military force that was required to keep order and defend the territory from external threats, they relied on indigenous populations to govern ithemselves through their own elites who were co-opted into the "government" in some form or other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my. Muhammud has been scouring wiki again for his history lessons. I note with amusement that Mo's taqiyya has failed him again. Even Mo's wiki version of history delineates the geographic area of his invented "country of Pal'istan" as an area that cultural, has been churned by various invasions, settlers and colonists.
> 
> As expected, little Mo' can't cite a single source for "Pal'istanian" as a unique culture, community or nation-state. There never was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The most unique thing about Palestine is its diversity in race, religion, and culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the self-designated spokes-turban for the arabs-moslems, you need to keep up. The most unique thing about middle Eastern Islamist fascism is its relation to Arab'ism. Just ask your heroes in the PLO.
> 
> From the 1968 charter:
> 
> *Article 1:*
> Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.
> 
> 
> Not much allowance there for your phony claims to "diversity...."
Click to expand...

OK, but that does not explain how some Palestinians are blonde with blue eyes and others dark with kinky hair and the varieties in between.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny You actually think it contradicts my statement...
> Or are You saying that a flag of another 10 countries, designed by Britain is unique to Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
Click to expand...


Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
> Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?
Click to expand...


Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:

_The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants). _
_
*Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*





_


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
> Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
> But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
Click to expand...


Funny that you would post this, and feel comfortable doing so.  If anyone posted similar anthropological treatises about Jews, they would say just about the same thing about Jews.  Of course, if Jews are the subject of racist attacks it is called antisemitism, but when racist attacks on other peoples are posted, it is just fine.  Like being in that sort of position don't you.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
> So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?
Click to expand...


Yes, the British promoted the invasion/colonization of Palestine by assigning Jews citizenship as soon as they arrived and they became Palestinians. Atbthe expense of the native Muslims and Christians.  The unwritten plan was to put insure that the native Muslims and Christians, in time, would become subservient to Jews.  The British were successful.  Being the colonial power that they were in the early 20th century, they could not conceive that native people would resist European rule for long.  They didn't find out until after WW2.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything "Israeli" comes from places and cultures foreign to Palestine, so what's your point?
Click to expand...


My point is simple:

Flag of Israel





Talit






Israel emblem





Israeli currency









------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All this is of the land. 
What Palestinian heritage is distinct to this land?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Repeated posting of Hasbara edited wiki nonsense does not make your falsehoods any truer. I think we all know who is embarassing himself.
> Even the Jewish Virtual Library, known for propagating Zionist propaganda, claims that there were only 5,000 Jews (1.7% of the population) in Palestine in the 16th century.  Grow up you silly little twit.
> Jewish & Non-Jewish Population of Israel/Palestine (1517-Present)
> 
> 
> 
> You Lying Taqiyyah Fraud.
> There's NO Numbers between 1517 and 1882!
> You DISHONEST stink bomb, it doesn't even touch the meat I posted: 1550-1660.
> 
> And BTW Akhmed, YOU are using a reliable Jewish source, aka, "Hasbara."
> :^)
> AS I always say
> Montel-chiti CANNOT debate me. He's my Bitch.
> `
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can look up the special occasions when monte used the "hasbara card' attacking a Palestinian lawyer, advisor to the PLO, who crushed his 'arguments' on the same issue...or being caught photoshoping documents, just to claim later he has "the only true source'.
> Some delightful calls for genocide of all non-Christians in Israel and Palestine are there too- just look it up, he enjoys being reminded of that.
> 
> BTW did You know our monte has also proclaimed to being "a professor" -serious stuff!
> Enjoy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, look it up.  You are just making things up because the facts overwhelmingly demonstrate that all you know is Zionist propaganda.  My "arguments" have never been "crushed" because I just state the facts.  And, you lying piece of crap, if anyone photoshops documents it is you.  The 2005 map purporting to be a pre-partition map showing Jordan as Arab Palestine, now that was a good one.
Click to expand...


Oh "zionistiche porpaganda". In other words LAME.

 You admitted to editing documents after I pointed at it.
More to the point it was on a similar subject. You tried to deny Jews existed in Palestine. Even called a PA advisor, a lawyer in the UN a "hasbara propaganda".

Should I present it again with Your other nonsense, calling for a genocide of all non Christians in the holy land?


----------



## montelatici

I never edited a document you idiot. Please present it again.


----------



## rylah

I like Your arguments desperate. Why all the stress?

Here You admitted to editing a document that in the 1st place looked fishy, because You cut and used pieces of it...

_"I aligned the left and right pages correctly as the single scan had them unaligned. Another lying Zionist complained about it and I aligned them, you lying Zionist scum. "_
*Judaism and zionism are extreme opposites - post #26


You see You just can't do so and claim that You have 
"THE ONLY TRUE SOURCE". *


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deflection. What I posted is correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
> So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?
Click to expand...

Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
> So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.
Click to expand...


Ok so that time Palestinians gained citizenship under British rule.
Were Jews Palestinians then?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
> So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok so that time Palestinians gained citizenship under British rule.
> Were Jews Palestinians then?
Click to expand...

Sure, the Jews who held Turkish citizenship became Palestinians.

This is in accordance with the rule of state succession in international law.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
> Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
> But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
Click to expand...


Well that's interesting, but you still haven't provided any evidence to answer my actual question, "...perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?"

As for Kant's comment, it's also interesting he seems to differentiate between "Palestinians" and "Jews"


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
> Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
> But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's interesting, but you still haven't provided any evidence to answer my actual question, "...perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?"
> 
> As for Kant's comment, it's also interesting he seems to differentiate between "Palestinians" and "Jews"
Click to expand...


You question was a deflection, therefore irrelevant.
I've made my point and provided the evidence.

Why would Europeans call Jews "Palestinians among us" some 100 years before the 1st Zionist immigration to Palestine?

_The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants). 

*Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*_


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
> So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok so that time Palestinians gained citizenship under British rule.
> Were Jews Palestinians then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, the Jews who held Turkish citizenship became Palestinians.
> 
> This is in accordance with the rule of state succession in international law.
Click to expand...


So this happened decades after political Zionism was brought to Palestine. The idea of self determination as a people came from Jews and Britain.

In other words here too, those who call themselves today Palestinians took the idea of being a distinct nation from others. Otherwise they'd still call themselves Syrians or Egyptians.

Palestinians are a result of foreign occupation and rules, not the wish for distinct self determination.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
> Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
> But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's interesting, but you still haven't provided any evidence to answer my actual question, "...perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?"
> 
> As for Kant's comment, it's also interesting he seems to differentiate between "Palestinians" and "Jews"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You question was a deflection, therefore irrelevant.
> I've made my point and provided the evidence.
> 
> Why would Europeans call Jews "Palestinians among us" some 100 years before the 1st Zionist immigration to Palestine?
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*_
Click to expand...


All you've demonstrated is that Emannual Kant called Jewish Palestinians, Palestinians; not that this was widespread terminology in use in the 18th Century in Europe outside of Prussia. In the 16th and 17th Centuries the Spanish referred to Protestant Christian churches as Mosques, didn't make Protestant Christians, Muslims. My question asked you to, " provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?" This is the assertion made by the Hasbara Trolls here and elsewhere, Kant has never been mentioned until now.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> I like Your arguments desperate. Why all the stress?
> 
> Here You admitted to editing a document that in the 1st place looked fishy, because You cut and used pieces of it...
> 
> _"I aligned the left and right pages correctly as the single scan had them unaligned. Another lying Zionist complained about it and I aligned them, you lying Zionist scum. "_
> *Judaism and zionism are extreme opposites - post #26
> 
> 
> You see You just can't do so and claim that You have
> "THE ONLY TRUE SOURCE". *



Ahhh, aligning pages on a scanner is editing.  That's the Zionist mentality.


----------



## yiostheoy

abu afak said:


> "Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda...
> As has been noted many times before, *prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis,
> the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews,* with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.
> - David Basch
> 
> 
> "...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. *They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," *while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
> The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
> It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
> Far better to Invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," -
> a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."
> - westerndefense.org
> 
> 
> "There is NO language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
> *There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
> Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)*, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
> Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
> But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness.
> No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""
> - Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist
> 
> 
> So before the creation of the State of Israel, who were the Palestinians?
> ANSWER:
> Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST;
> the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE;
> Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK;
> the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY;
> there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and.... the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC.
> *All these were JEWISH organizations. *
> In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG"
> In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions.
> "Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine.
> *The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a Recent phenomenon.
> Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another Decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.*
> - 'Palestinians' - The Peace FAQ
> -
> -


Really old cold dead thread.

I wonder who resurrected this ??


----------



## yiostheoy

abu afak said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do believe Palestinians are real people  even include some Jews. The jews came from Europe, Germany, Poland, Russia and Ukraine. The Palestinians never left. How would you like the Indians to take the US back and say us European whites do not belong here? Israel was to be set up as a secular state, not a jewish one, Russia is the third most spoken language in Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Palestinians" [are an] Arab people No one heard of before 1967 before Israeli governments certified this piece of Propaganda...
> As has been noted many times before, *prior to 1948, that is before Jews had begun to call themselves Israelis,
> the ONLY persons known as "Palestinians" were Jews,* with the Arabs much preferrring to identify themselves as part of the great Arab nation.
> - David Basch
> 
> 
> "...Palestine does not belong to the "Palestinians" and never did. *They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> Before that, the word "Palestinian" meant "Jewish," *while the local Arabs called themselves simply "Arabs."
> The creation of the PLO by Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1964 was a brilliant ploy to distort the parameters of the dispute, largely for propaganda purposes.
> It was inconvenient to have a conflict between 20-odd Arab states with an area 530 times greater than Israel, a population more than 30 times greater than Israel's and enormously richer natural resources.
> Far better to Invent a "Palestinian" nation that would be the eternal "underdog," -
> a nation consisting partly of Immigrants from Syria and other Arab countries who came to benefit from the rapidly growing economy Zionist Jews created..."
> - westerndefense.org
> 
> 
> "There is NO language known as Palestinian. - There is NO distinct Palestinian culture.
> *There has NEVER been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians.
> Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)*, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
> Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9% of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1% of the landmass.
> But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness.
> No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough....""
> - Joseph Farah, Arab-American journalist
> 
> 
> So before the creation of the State of Israel, who were the Palestinians?
> ANSWER:
> Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST;
> the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE;
> Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK;
> the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY;
> there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and.... the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC.
> *All these were JEWISH organizations. *
> In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG"
> In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions.
> "Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine.
> *The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a Recent phenomenon.
> Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another Decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.*
> - 'Palestinians' - The Peace FAQ
> -
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Bump !!

Hahaha !!


----------



## yiostheoy

iggy list.


----------



## yiostheoy

most of these spammers and trolls were already on my iggy list -- but I let them off for Lent -- but now most of them have ended up back on it ... .


----------



## yiostheoy

Epsilon Delta said:


> You seem to have entirely missed the point. =/ But I'll go through it again anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism was  100 Year old Nationalist revival Movement of the Jews. Reviving one of 3200 years and existed for 1400 years,
> 'Palestinianism' was NOT.
> Not only did they Not accept the partition creating 'Palestine' in 1948, but for 20 years subsequent the land was Annexed by Jordan and there was NO 'Palestine' nor even really 'palestinians',
> as Arabs never really bought that crap until about the time they lost the WB to Israel in the 1967 War. Otherwise there would still be passport-carrying Jordanians.
> Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian' (whatever that is) as it's Queen.
> In fact, in 'Black September' (1970), Arafat & co. tried to Make Jordan the Palestinian state it is/was by overthrowing King Hussein.
> But they lost-- and it was back to 'Israel' and wanting the West Bank which was renounced in the 1964 PLO Charter.
> Very Little between American and Canadian.. perhaps except Shared 300+ years histories of each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, the main point of this is LAND. Palestinians are linguistically and culturally "Arab" peoples, the key point of their identity is the fact that they or their ancestors lived in the region of historic Palestine. All that you can claim is that they're "just Arabs," which is false and, frankly, stupid - a Yemeni is an Arab too, so is a Moroccan, yet they're not the _same_, and they live thousands of miles from each other. Again, someone from Canada might have the exact same language, exact same skin color, exact same white anglo-protestant ethno-religious background as someone from the US, it doesn't give anybody the right to come to Canada and cleanse it because "they're the same as Americas [according to me]." What separates a Canadian from an American is the fact that one LIVES in the LAND of Canada and another LIVES in the LAND of America, hence they subscribe to different national identities and are not the same - a Canadian does not consider himself an American, just like Palestinians don't consider themselves Iraqis. Even WITHIN countries the culture varies - New York has a different "culture" from Texas, even if they both share American culture.
> 
> And just because America became a country 200 years ago but most Arab countries became countries 70 years ago doesn't make a difference, unless you're willing to sit down now and explain to everyone here at what arbitrary point in time (in years) does an identity become "legitimate" enough for you - is it 20 years? 40 years? 200 years? 2000 years? And WHY?
> 
> That half of Jordan identifies itself as Palestinian is, again, irrelevant. Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right? Or what, is it because it's not ruled by Jews that it's not appropriate? Neither is Jordan, so I guess it's not appropriate either. That is, if we're being honest and holding everyone to the same standard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much bigger between Americans and Mexicans who are a different ethnicity/language/culture (which is why you Didn't make THAT comparison) and part of whose Land we Americans now sit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't see the relevance. Explain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jews are Just Jews, while Arabs have 22 states, many arbitrarily bordered by the Ottoman Break up.
> *'Iraqis', 'Jordanians', 'Palestinians' were conqueror constructs, NOT peoples.* Of course people only whine about one tiny part of this giant allocation in which Arabs were the big winners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nearly every country in the world today, including most of the Americas, Africa, and Oceania are based on conqueror constructs thanks to a history of imperialism and colonialism. There is absolutely no "ethnic" differences between New Zealanders and Australians and Britons and Canadians, yet they're not all the same [again] or any less legitimate. In reality, all borders are illegitimate arbitrary creations that don't follow any real logic, but that is the way the world is ordered and hence the reality we have to deal with. I don't know if you have ever seen a map of the US, but there's a suspiciously long straight line running from the great lakes to the pacific that surely respects no ethnic, linguistic, or cultural divisions and resulted from the US bargaining with Britain, and is the only reason people in norther Minnesota and N Dakota today aren't Canadian. That's the way it is and it doesn't make it any more or less legitimate. The fact is that TODAY Iraqis, Jordanians, and Palestinians are people, specifically Arab people who live in the land spaces that today are called those names, no different from any other country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they, those local-and-Transient-left-over-non-Jordan-arabs got/were offered the vast majority of the Land.
> The Jews only got 13% of British Mandate 'Palestine'.
> Jordan (Given to a Hashemite SAUDI Prince as spoils) was/is 77%; 'Palestine 10%. Meaning Arabs/Palestinians got 87% of the Mandate.
> And Half of the Jews 13% was the thought-useless Negev Desert. (and 2/3 including the Half of Israel that is the Negev Desert was Ottoman/British STATE LAND, owned by NO Arab)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I'm talking about. The British Mandate of Palestine itself was entirely arbitrarily constructed in the 1920s by a caretaker colonial administration. During Ottoman times what is now Jordan was entirely a different province and what is now Israel/OPTs were separated into three or four Ottoman Seljuks, all of which had a huge majority of Arabs and only a tiny percentage of Jews. And that's what the point is - whether _they _were _there_, they LIVED there, not in Algeria or in Kuwait, but THERE. That's why they're not "just Arabs." That's why Israelis are not "just Jews" anymore, because they live THERE.
> 
> That's why it's irrelevant how you frame it, what it comes down to is advocating ethnic cleansing: you want to claim that there is no such thing as palestinians so that you can legitimize your belief that Israel is justified in kicking every Palestinian out of where they've always lived and their ancestors lived because they're "just Arabs"  and so they can go live in any other Arab place. Until you go ahead and explain that this would be legitimate for any other country - that anybody can walk into Austria because theyre "just Germans" or that anybody can take over Singapore because they're "just Chinese" we know that you're just fulfilling the role of a propagandist for one side's violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does but only now. But let's not kid ourselves about "some great country called Palestine being overrun by the Jews".
> What makes a 'people' is Culture, Language, Ethnicity/Race, shared History, etc and they know it.
> Jews know they are a people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, actually they're not, by YOUR own arbitrary standards they would not qualify as a people for most of the past 2000 years. This is just sad. By your own arbitrary definition of what makes a "people", not mine (I don't have one, I'm so naive that I assume that when millions of people define themselves as something, I should be inclined to believe them).
> 
> Jews did not have the same language until the 1900s. Hebrew was a dead language only used for liturgical purposes, just like Latin, for over 1500 years. The vast majority of Jews did not speak Hebrew. Jews are not all of the same race or ethnicity - there's Slavic Jews, Western European Jews, Black Ethiopian Jews, Arab Jews. They did not have a shared history - there was a hugely spread out diaspora living all over the world with their own individual histories - and there still are to a degree. That's why all your "parameters" are useless. The only relevant thing is that Jews KNOW they are a people. Hence, they are a people - like Palestinians feel that they are a people. Whether they speak different languages, have different histories, or are of different races is entirely irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Arabs under various new, made-up, misgrouped (ie 'Iraq'), and old names got 99% of the Ottoman Break up.The problem, as you unwitting quoted above, was they wanted 100%.
> But Arabs overall did very well in the Break-up. Perhaps ruling 110% of their 'original Range'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Arabs" got countries where they lived under Ottoman rule. Turks got Turkey, where they lived. The Kurds did get screwed over, but at least they're still where they lived, not getting bulldozed out of their land anymore. Again, what happened elsewhere is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
> 
> What is relevant is that the Arabs of historic Palestine, today known as Palestinians, wanted 100% because they basically were 100% until mass immigration of Jews began in the 1920s; their population began doubling every 10 years, it began to be overrun by Jews basically. Even in 48, Jews were only a third of the population, and they also wanted 100%.
> 
> I think most people, Israelis and Jews, know they will not have 100%. But those that do on either side, regardless of all the false justifications they can give, whether you with your "palestinians aren't real" or "palestinians don't deserve to live there" or people on the other side with their "Jews aren't real" or "Jews stole all the land so they must be driven out" - it's pathetic. They can see very clearly the other sides terrible propositions, but cannot come to terms with the fact that they're advocating the same exact thing. It's called ethnic cleansing. Both sides propose it, both are wrong. Everything else is just a veil to justify it - there is no justification for it, so stop trying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
> But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure that Kurds are a people. I'm not going to deny that. If Kurds want a state, they should have one, Britain should've carved a Kurdish state. If they wanted to separate from Iraq/Turkey/Syria/Iran, I'd be all for it, and if they were oppressed (as they have been for ages by all of those regimes) I'll be the first to condemn it. This thread isn't about Kurds though. Feel free to make one and I'll go right to it.
Click to expand...

Looks like you swallowed the troll bait.


----------



## yiostheoy

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa 1937, flying Palestinian flag._
> 
> 
> 
> Then Jordan is "palestine" for all intents and purposes, a palistani vaterland to drum and trumpet a return to, that is, because the flag is the jordanian al Urdun, adopted in 1928, while the palistanian das plagiat rag flag originates in 1994.
Click to expand...

The unfortunate Kingdom Of Jordan has inherited the refugee problem.

The UN should relocate them to Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi's have more money and should spend some of it on their brother Muslims rather than all on harem girls.


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## yiostheoy

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, yeah "Palestinians don't exist" argument. It's irrelevant when the name "Palestinian" began to be used. "Israelis" didn't exist either before 1948 - how does that make them any less "real"? The assertion that a "Palestinian is indistinguishable from Jordanians (another Recent Invention)" is retarded, and wouldn't hold up anywhere else -
> 
> 
> 
> Zionism was  100 Year old Nationalist revival Movement of the Jews. Reviving one of 3200 years and existed for 1400 years,
> 'Palestinianism' was NOT.
> Not only did they Not accept the partition creating 'Palestine' in 1948, but for 20 years subsequent the land was Annexed by Jordan and there was NO 'Palestine' nor even really 'palestinians', as Arabs never really bought that crap until app they lost the WB to Israel in the 1967 War. Otherwise there would still be Jordainians.
> Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian' (whatever that is)
> In fact, in 'Black September' (1970), Arafat and co tried to Make Jordan the Palestinian state it is/as by overthrowing King Hussein. But they lost-- and it was back to 'Israel' and wanting the West Bank which was renounced in the 1964 PLO Charter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the difference between an American and a Canadian? Mexico and Central America were all one spanish viceroyalty in colonial times, ..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very Little between American and Canadian.. perhaps except Shared 300+ years histories of each.
> Much bigger between Americans and Mexicans who are a different Race and part of whose Land Americans now sit.
> Jews are Just Jews, while Arabs have 22 states, many arbitrarily bordered by the Ottoman Break up.
> 'Iraqis', 'Jordanians', 'Palestinians' were conqueror constructs, NOT peoples.
> 
> 
> And they got/were offered the vast majority of the Land.
> The Jews only got 13% of British Mandate 'Palestine'.
> Jordan (Given to a Hashemite SAUDI Prince as spoils) was/is 77%,'Palestine 10%. Meaning Arabs/Palestinians got 87% of the Mandate.
> And half of the Jews 13% was the Negev Desert. (and 2/3 including the Half of Israel that is the Negev Desert was Ottoman/British STATE LAND, owned by NO Arab)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That a properly "Palestinian" identity is new doesn't mean anything, and it's not up to [Iyou[/I] to say to say whose identities are legitimate or not. The fact that 13 million people identify themselves as "Palestinian" _is_ what gives the identity legitimacy -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does but only now. But let's not kid ourselves about "some great country called Palestine being overrun by the Jews".
> What makes a 'people' is culture, Language, Race, shared History, etc and they know it.
> Jews know they are a people. Tibetans, Mongols, Turks, Kurds... and Arabs. (Nicht Palestinians)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, identity is not a static thing and it's not mutually exclusive. A Palestinian is usually also an Arab, just like an Israeli is usually also a Jew, but he's not "just a Jew." Just because there's a larger group of people who think of themselves as Arab doesn't make "Palestinian" any less real - by the same logic, most people who consider themselves Jews don't even live in Israel - so what? This doesn't make an Israel identity any less "legitimate" or compromised. But of course that's "us," not "them" so the standards don't apply.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Continuing...
> Arabs are indeed a People. Thus Pan-Arabism.
> 'Palestinian' like 'Jordanian' were Not.
> And Arabs under various new, made-up, misgrouped (ie 'Iraq'), and old names got 99% of the Ottoman Break up.
> 
> The problem,as you unwitting quoted above was they wanted 100%.
> But Arabs overall did very well in the Break-up. Perhaps ruling 110% of their original 'Range'.
> The only real loser the Larger True People (Culture, Language, Ethicity) KURDS.
> But you don't here much about that, and certainly You aren't/haven't going to make an issue of that.
> -
> -
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (and was Ottoman/British STATEE LAND, owned by NO Arab)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Britain administered Palestine it did not take possession.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Looks like you took the troll bait too.


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## yiostheoy

Boyz and girlz, when you feed a troll you nourish it.

Bad, bad, bad !!!


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## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> So a British desined flag is actually a Palestinian flag of a nation claiming to inhabit the land for millenias...and no distinct symbol?
> 
> Why is everything portrayed as 'palestinian' comes from foreign places and cultures?
> 
> 
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
> So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.
Click to expand...


So You say they were 'Palestinian Jews'?


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## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shit like that happens when you are born under occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or when You have no significant cultural or historic connection to the land.
> 
> So much that You have to wait centuries before a foreign power decides to invent a flag for You...so much for native people.
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine in 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Under British occupation. And I think Jews for some strange reasons were included too.
> So were Jews 'Palestinians' as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, all of the people in Palestine who had Turkish citizenship became Palestinians. This included everybody without distinction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So You say they were 'Palestinian Jews'?
Click to expand...

Sure. I have always said that.

As for the Arab and Jewish Turks who were residing in Palestine, another calculation is required. In mid-1925, the number of Arabs in the total population was 717,006 inhabitants: 641,494 Muslims and 75,512 Christians.145 There were also 8,507 persons who were classified as _Others,_146 mainly Druze, Baha’i and Samiritans – all were Arabs in fact. The number of Arab immigrants who entered Palestine and registered therein as residents from 1920 to 1925 was 2,783.147 Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507) – 2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel​


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## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were thousands of (registered) Jews mainly in Judea Samaria and the Galilee.
> Jews were called Palestinians, even by Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
> But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's interesting, but you still haven't provided any evidence to answer my actual question, "...perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?"
> 
> As for Kant's comment, it's also interesting he seems to differentiate between "Palestinians" and "Jews"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You question was a deflection, therefore irrelevant.
> I've made my point and provided the evidence.
> 
> Why would Europeans call Jews "Palestinians among us" some 100 years before the 1st Zionist immigration to Palestine?
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you've demonstrated is that Emannual Kant called Jewish Palestinians, Palestinians; not that this was widespread terminology in use in the 18th Century in Europe outside of Prussia. In the 16th and 17th Centuries the Spanish referred to Protestant Christian churches as Mosques, didn't make Protestant Christians, Muslims. My question asked you to, " provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?" This is the assertion made by the Hasbara Trolls here and elsewhere, Kant has never been mentioned until now.
Click to expand...


Kant was talking about '_Palestinians living among us_' then referred to _'Jews in Poland' _as an example. Not a word about "Jewish Palestinians', just the Jews in Europe. No other references were given.
Why would anyone refer to Jews in Europe as 'Palestinians' 200 years before Arabs decided to define themselves as 'Palestinian' in reaction to Jews' self determination?

And as if I remember correctly Tinmore pointed out that Jews in Palestine were referred to as 'Palestinian citizens' as of 1924.

You see there's no way You can talk about what is a 'Palestinian' - without first referring to Jews, simple chronology.


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## montelatici

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This assertion keeps cropping up time after time, but when I ask for corroborating evidence that this was in fact the case, I get no response; perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
> But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that's interesting, but you still haven't provided any evidence to answer my actual question, "...perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?"
> 
> As for Kant's comment, it's also interesting he seems to differentiate between "Palestinians" and "Jews"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You question was a deflection, therefore irrelevant.
> I've made my point and provided the evidence.
> 
> Why would Europeans call Jews "Palestinians among us" some 100 years before the 1st Zionist immigration to Palestine?
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you've demonstrated is that Emannual Kant called Jewish Palestinians, Palestinians; not that this was widespread terminology in use in the 18th Century in Europe outside of Prussia. In the 16th and 17th Centuries the Spanish referred to Protestant Christian churches as Mosques, didn't make Protestant Christians, Muslims. My question asked you to, " provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?" This is the assertion made by the Hasbara Trolls here and elsewhere, Kant has never been mentioned until now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kant was talking about '_Palestinians living among us_' then referred to _'Jews in Poland' _as an example. Not a word about "Jewish Palestinians', just the Jews in Europe. No other references were given.
> Why would anyone refer to Jews in Europe as 'Palestinians' 200 years before Arabs decided to call themselves using that name?
> 
> And as if I remember correctly Tinmore pointed out that Jews in Palestine were referred to as 'Palestinian citizens' as of 1924.
> 
> You see there's no way You can talk about what is a 'Palestinian' - without first referring to Jews, simple chronology.
Click to expand...


You make absolutely no sense.  As early as 1921 the European Jews, in official communications with the British Colonial Office  referred to themselves as Zionists and the Muslims and Christians, in the same exchange of communications, referred to themselves as the People of Palestine.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well You can deflect to whatever You see clever.
> But for some reason this is what Emmanuel Kant wrote:
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's interesting, but you still haven't provided any evidence to answer my actual question, "...perhaps you can provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?"
> 
> As for Kant's comment, it's also interesting he seems to differentiate between "Palestinians" and "Jews"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You question was a deflection, therefore irrelevant.
> I've made my point and provided the evidence.
> 
> Why would Europeans call Jews "Palestinians among us" some 100 years before the 1st Zionist immigration to Palestine?
> 
> _The Palestinians living among us have, for the most part, earned a not unfounded reputation for being cheaters, because of their spirit of usury since their exile. Certainly, it seems strange to conceive of a nation of cheaters; but it is just as odd to think of a nation of merchants, the great majority of whom, bound by an ancient superstition that is recognized by the State they live in, seek no civil dignity and try to make up for this loss by the advantage of duping the people among whom they find refuge, and even one another. The situation could not be otherwise, given a whole nation of merchants, as non-productive members of society (for example, the Jews in Poland). So their constitution, which is sanctioned by ancient precepts and even by the people among whom they live (since we have certain sacred writings in common with them), cannot consistently be abolished — even though the supreme principle of their morality in trading with us is "Let the buyer beware." I shall not engage in the futile undertaking of lecturing to these people, in terms of morality, about cheating and honesty. Instead, I shall present my conjectures about the origin of this peculiar constitution (the constitution, namely, of a nation of merchants).
> 
> *Kant: Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All you've demonstrated is that Emannual Kant called Jewish Palestinians, Palestinians; not that this was widespread terminology in use in the 18th Century in Europe outside of Prussia. In the 16th and 17th Centuries the Spanish referred to Protestant Christian churches as Mosques, didn't make Protestant Christians, Muslims. My question asked you to, " provide contemporary evidence that Jewish immigrants and settlers in Palestine after WW1 were referred to as Palestinians?" This is the assertion made by the Hasbara Trolls here and elsewhere, Kant has never been mentioned until now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kant was talking about '_Palestinians living among us_' then referred to _'Jews in Poland' _as an example. Not a word about "Jewish Palestinians', just the Jews in Europe. No other references were given.
> Why would anyone refer to Jews in Europe as 'Palestinians' 200 years before Arabs decided to call themselves using that name?
> 
> And as if I remember correctly Tinmore pointed out that Jews in Palestine were referred to as 'Palestinian citizens' as of 1924.
> 
> You see there's no way You can talk about what is a 'Palestinian' - without first referring to Jews, simple chronology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You make absolutely no sense.  As early as 1921 the European Jews, in official communications with the British Colonial Office  referred to themselves as Zionists and the Muslims and Christians, in the same exchange of communications, referred to themselves as the People of Palestine.
Click to expand...


You really going to play the game as if history began in the 1920's?
At least 100 years before that Jews in Europe were already recognized as _"Palestinians among us". _But the origin of Jews was of course common knowledge- You strongly try to deny.

Edit- why can't one be a Zionist and A Palestinian Jew? Still doesn't negate the fact there were Palestinian Jews long before political Zionism.


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## montelatici

Europeans, by definition, cannot be Palestinians.  Europe is on a different continent. The origin of the Europeans that practiced Judaism was European, not Middle Eastern.


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## rylah

montelatici said:


> Europeans, by definition, cannot be Palestinians.  Europe is on a different continent. The origin of the Europeans that practiced Judaism was European, not Middle Eastern.



The question of 'origin' is very simple.
Where did Jews begin originally?

Surely they didn't appear first in Europe


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## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans, by definition, cannot be Palestinians.  Europe is on a different continent. The origin of the Europeans that practiced Judaism was European, not Middle Eastern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question of 'origin' is very simple.
> Where did Jews begin originally?
> 
> Surely they didn't appear first in Europe
Click to expand...


European converts to Judaism appeared first in Europe, just as Europeans that converted to Christianity  did.


----------



## montelatici

Does an Inuit convert to Judaism have ancestral origins in the Middle East?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans, by definition, cannot be Palestinians.  Europe is on a different continent. The origin of the Europeans that practiced Judaism was European, not Middle Eastern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question of 'origin' is very simple.
> Where did Jews begin originally?
> 
> Surely they didn't appear first in Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> European converts to Judaism appeared first in Europe, just as Europeans that converted to Christianity  did.
Click to expand...


False equivalence doesn't make an argument.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans, by definition, cannot be Palestinians.  Europe is on a different continent. The origin of the Europeans that practiced Judaism was European, not Middle Eastern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question of 'origin' is very simple.
> Where did Jews begin originally?
> 
> Surely they didn't appear first in Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> European converts to Judaism appeared first in Europe, just as Europeans that converted to Christianity  did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False equivalence doesn't make an argument.
Click to expand...


It's just a fact.  There is no argument.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Does an Inuit convert to Judaism have ancestral origins in the Middle East?



When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Europeans, by definition, cannot be Palestinians.  Europe is on a different continent. The origin of the Europeans that practiced Judaism was European, not Middle Eastern.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question of 'origin' is very simple.
> Where did Jews begin originally?
> 
> Surely they didn't appear first in Europe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> European converts to Judaism appeared first in Europe, just as Europeans that converted to Christianity  did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False equivalence doesn't make an argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's just a fact.  There is no argument.
Click to expand...


Well for it to be a fact it at least has to be backed by some authoritative source. You're not one.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does an Inuit convert to Judaism have ancestral origins in the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
> Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.
Click to expand...


They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does an Inuit convert to Judaism have ancestral origins in the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
> Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.
Click to expand...


How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?

But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.


----------



## abu afak

rylah said:


> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.


Though there is no universal 'right', many countries extend privileges to Ethnics of that Nation.
When 'Palestink' becomes a country (choke), they can, and no doubt will, extend those privileges to 'palestinians' of every stripe/multiple ancestry.


----------



## rylah

abu afak said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> Though there is no universal 'right', many countries extend privileges to Ethnics of that Nation.
> When 'Palestink' becomes a country (choke), they can, and no doubt will, extend those privileges to 'palestinians' of every stripe/multiple ancestry.
Click to expand...


*So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—*

Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.

*Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?*

Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after.

*The Palestinian ambassador to Washington*


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does an Inuit convert to Judaism have ancestral origins in the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
> Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?
> 
> But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.
Click to expand...


What are you talking about.  A non-Catholic goes through a process of conversion to become a Catholic.  

So, a European who had one ancestor 2,000 years who came from the Middle East married a European woman, who subsequently had children that married other Europeans for generations, have more rights to Palestine than descendants of the indigenous people that left Judaism.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does an Inuit convert to Judaism have ancestral origins in the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
> Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?
> 
> But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about.  A non-Catholic goes through a process of conversion to become a Catholic.
> 
> So, a European who had one ancestor 2,000 years who came from the Middle East married a European woman, who subsequently had children that married other Europeans for generations, have more rights to Palestine than descendants of the indigenous people that left Judaism.
Click to expand...


What?? What a mess have You done. Ancestry and religion are different things.

We have been over this before.
You Yourself provided the proofs that Jews of any diaspora are the closest  to Palestinians, before any other ME community.


----------



## Sixties Fan

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does an Inuit convert to Judaism have ancestral origins in the Middle East?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
> Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?
> 
> But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about.  A non-Catholic goes through a process of conversion to become a Catholic.
> 
> So, a European who had one ancestor 2,000 years who came from the Middle East married a European woman, who subsequently had children that married other Europeans for generations, have more rights to Palestine than descendants of the indigenous people that left Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What?? What a mess have You done. Ancestry and religion are different things.
> 
> We have been over this before.
> You Yourself provided the proofs that Jews of any diaspora are the closest  to Palestinians, before any other ME community.
Click to expand...


Except for the few Jews who have married Arabs willfully, or were forced into marriages or conversion to Islam, the Palestinian Arabs are exactly that.  Arabs.
Why should Arabs be the closest to Jews, and not the indigenous Egyptians, Assyrians, and others who have also had contact and a small or higher number of integration for the past 2500 years.
How about the Romans, or the Greeks.  

This "Jews and Palestinians" are closely related is nothing but a way to continue to delegitimize and basically wipe out any Jewish vestige as he just did above.

Jews disappeared into converting to Christianity and Islam.

No matter what the proof to the contrary he will continue to try to sell this "saying" of his, because he "knows more than anyone and we will never learn what he knows", something to that effect.

In a few words:

He Knows Nothing
He is into delegitimizing and recruiting more people to attack Israel and the Jews.
Jew hatred makes people like Monte deny that Jews even exist, or if they do they are connected to the "Palestinian Arabs", AND
Theodore Herzl and all other Jews who happened to come from Europe are Europeans.  Of course it does not make any other people European if they spent a few centuries in Europe.  
ONLY THE JEWS.

AND never mind all the other Jews who make up the Jewish people, from Mesopotamia, Iran, and all over the world.

Monte and CO.  zero in on Herzl and all the Jews who came from Europe and returned to their ancient homeland and have decided that they are "Converted Jews" .  ALL OF THEM.

Monte does not believe what he tries to sell.
He knows that all he is posting on the threads are lies, which have been debunked several time by several people, by the facts themselves. 

Keep repeating what you love to peddle.

Jews are Jews.

If Jews are not Jews, than Arabs are not Arabs, and Palestinian Arabs are most definitely NOT the indigenous people of ancient Canaan, because their ancestors, unlike the Jewish People's ancestors, did not inhabit ancient Canaan until the Muslim invasion of 1400 years ago.
Jews were inhabiting that land long before 1400 years ago.  Never stopped inhabiting it, and will continue to inhabit their indigenous Ancient Homeland for perpetuity.


Sure, Monte does not like this facts, and neither do others like him.

But such is life.

L'Echaim


----------



## montelatici

Sixties Fan said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
> Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?
> 
> But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about.  A non-Catholic goes through a process of conversion to become a Catholic.
> 
> So, a European who had one ancestor 2,000 years who came from the Middle East married a European woman, who subsequently had children that married other Europeans for generations, have more rights to Palestine than descendants of the indigenous people that left Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What?? What a mess have You done. Ancestry and religion are different things.
> 
> We have been over this before.
> You Yourself provided the proofs that Jews of any diaspora are the closest  to Palestinians, before any other ME community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the few Jews who have married Arabs willfully, or were forced into marriages or conversion to Islam, the Palestinian Arabs are exactly that.  Arabs.
> Why should Arabs be the closest to Jews, and not the indigenous Egyptians, Assyrians, and others who have also had contact and a small or higher number of integration for the past 2500 years.
> How about the Romans, or the Greeks.
> 
> This "Jews and Palestinians" are closely related is nothing but a way to continue to delegitimize and basically wipe out any Jewish vestige as he just did above.
> 
> Jews disappeared into converting to Christianity and Islam.
> 
> No matter what the proof to the contrary he will continue to try to sell this "saying" of his, because he "knows more than anyone and we will never learn what he knows", something to that effect.
> 
> In a few words:
> 
> He Knows Nothing
> He is into delegitimizing and recruiting more people to attack Israel and the Jews.
> Jew hatred makes people like Monte deny that Jews even exist, or if they do they are connected to the "Palestinian Arabs", AND
> Theodore Herzl and all other Jews who happened to come from Europe are Europeans.  Of course it does not make any other people European if they spent a few centuries in Europe.
> ONLY THE JEWS.
> 
> AND never mind all the other Jews who make up the Jewish people, from Mesopotamia, Iran, and all over the world.
> 
> Monte and CO.  zero in on Herzl and all the Jews who came from Europe and returned to their ancient homeland and have decided that they are "Converted Jews" .  ALL OF THEM.
> 
> Monte does not believe what he tries to sell.
> He knows that all he is posting on the threads are lies, which have been debunked several time by several people, by the facts themselves.
> 
> Keep repeating what you love to peddle.
> 
> Jews are Jews.
> 
> If Jews are not Jews, than Arabs are not Arabs, and Palestinian Arabs are most definitely NOT the indigenous people of ancient Canaan, because their ancestors, unlike the Jewish People's ancestors, did not inhabit ancient Canaan until the Muslim invasion of 1400 years ago.
> Jews were inhabiting that land long before 1400 years ago.  Never stopped inhabiting it, and will continue to inhabit their indigenous Ancient Homeland for perpetuity.
> 
> 
> Sure, Monte does not like this facts, and neither do others like him.
> 
> But such is life.
> 
> L'Echaim
Click to expand...


1. Arab is not a racial or ethnic construct, it is the appellation given to people who have adopted Arabic as a language.
2. The Palestinians are predominately the descendants of the indigenous people of the territory. The impact of Arabian DNA was minimal as the Arabians did not transfer a population to Palestine, them came to rule over the native people, much like the Romans and later the Ottomans.
3. People in Palestine that had not already converted to Christianity (and many had already) that practiced many different religions including Roman religions, Judaism, Samaritanism, Mithraism etc., overwhelmingly converted to Christianity after Christianity became the state religion of Rome.  This happened all over the Empire, not just in Palestine.
4. No one has denied the existence of Jews.  A Jew is anyone that practices Judaism.  There are Inuits that practice Judaism, there are Asians that practice Judaism.  It's a religion that people of different ethnicites and races practice. 

What we are denying is the right that those that practiced Judaism in Europe had, to invade a place on another continent, expropriate the land from the native people of Palestine, expel hundreds of thousands, kill we don't know how many but surely in the tens of thousands and continue to oppress and rule over several million of them to this day.

I see that the facts are driving Mr. Propaganda (60s  fan) nuts.  Nothing I have stated has been debunked, facts cannot be debunked. You can find Hasbara sources that try to deflect the facts, but that's it.

Ciao, cioa.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?
> 
> But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about.  A non-Catholic goes through a process of conversion to become a Catholic.
> 
> So, a European who had one ancestor 2,000 years who came from the Middle East married a European woman, who subsequently had children that married other Europeans for generations, have more rights to Palestine than descendants of the indigenous people that left Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What?? What a mess have You done. Ancestry and religion are different things.
> 
> We have been over this before.
> You Yourself provided the proofs that Jews of any diaspora are the closest  to Palestinians, before any other ME community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the few Jews who have married Arabs willfully, or were forced into marriages or conversion to Islam, the Palestinian Arabs are exactly that.  Arabs.
> Why should Arabs be the closest to Jews, and not the indigenous Egyptians, Assyrians, and others who have also had contact and a small or higher number of integration for the past 2500 years.
> How about the Romans, or the Greeks.
> 
> This "Jews and Palestinians" are closely related is nothing but a way to continue to delegitimize and basically wipe out any Jewish vestige as he just did above.
> 
> Jews disappeared into converting to Christianity and Islam.
> 
> No matter what the proof to the contrary he will continue to try to sell this "saying" of his, because he "knows more than anyone and we will never learn what he knows", something to that effect.
> 
> In a few words:
> 
> He Knows Nothing
> He is into delegitimizing and recruiting more people to attack Israel and the Jews.
> Jew hatred makes people like Monte deny that Jews even exist, or if they do they are connected to the "Palestinian Arabs", AND
> Theodore Herzl and all other Jews who happened to come from Europe are Europeans.  Of course it does not make any other people European if they spent a few centuries in Europe.
> ONLY THE JEWS.
> 
> AND never mind all the other Jews who make up the Jewish people, from Mesopotamia, Iran, and all over the world.
> 
> Monte and CO.  zero in on Herzl and all the Jews who came from Europe and returned to their ancient homeland and have decided that they are "Converted Jews" .  ALL OF THEM.
> 
> Monte does not believe what he tries to sell.
> He knows that all he is posting on the threads are lies, which have been debunked several time by several people, by the facts themselves.
> 
> Keep repeating what you love to peddle.
> 
> Jews are Jews.
> 
> If Jews are not Jews, than Arabs are not Arabs, and Palestinian Arabs are most definitely NOT the indigenous people of ancient Canaan, because their ancestors, unlike the Jewish People's ancestors, did not inhabit ancient Canaan until the Muslim invasion of 1400 years ago.
> Jews were inhabiting that land long before 1400 years ago.  Never stopped inhabiting it, and will continue to inhabit their indigenous Ancient Homeland for perpetuity.
> 
> 
> Sure, Monte does not like this facts, and neither do others like him.
> 
> But such is life.
> 
> L'Echaim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. Arab is not a racial or ethnic construct, it is the appellation given to people who have adopted Arabic as a language.
> 2. The Palestinians are predominately the descendants of the indigenous people of the territory. The impact of Arabian DNA was minimal as the Arabians did not transfer a population to Palestine, them came to rule over the native people, much like the Romans and later the Ottomans.
> 3. People in Palestine that had not already converted to Christianity (and many had already) that practiced many different religions including Roman religions, Judaism, Samaritanism, Mithraism etc., overwhelmingly converted to Christianity after Christianity became the state religion of Rome.  This happened all over the Empire, not just in Palestine.
> 4. No one has denied the existence of Jews.  A Jew is anyone that practices Judaism.  There are Inuits that practice Judaism, there are Asians that practice Judaism.  It's a religion that people of different ethnicites and races practice.
> 
> What we are denying is the right that those that practiced Judaism in Europe had, to invade a place on another continent, expropriate the land from the native people of Palestine, expel hundreds of thousands, kill we don't know how many but surely in the tens of thousands and continue to oppress and rule over several million of them to this day.
> 
> I see that the facts are driving Mr. Propaganda (60s  fan) nuts.  Nothing I have stated has been debunked, facts cannot be debunked. You can find Hasbara sources that try to deflect the facts, but that's it.
> 
> Ciao, cioa.
Click to expand...



<<What we are denying is the right that those that practiced Judaism in Europe had, to invade a place on another continent, expropriate the land from the native people of Palestine, expel hundreds of thousands, kill we don't know how many but surely in the tens of thousands and continue to oppress and rule over several million of them to this day.>>>

Never mind the rest.

YOU ARE SO FULLLLLL  OF IT  !!!!!!

Returning to one's indigenous homeland is not "Invading", no matter how many times you repeat it.

And Israel did not expel thousands of Arabs before, during and after the 1948 war, as proven by the hundreds of Arab tribes which remained on the land during and after the war.

And Israel does not "Rule" over the people of Gaza or the PA.  They 
have their own governments and are ruled by those governments.
All those governments have to do and put their weapons down, destroy their charters, and sign a Peace Treaty with Israel as Egypt and Jordan have done.

It is Ramadan.

Israel is under no obligation to allow Muslims to come to the Temple Mount to pray at their Mosques. But it does so every time.
Muslims did not allow Jews access to their Holy  Sites for centuries.

Show us proof that the Hashemites allowed Jews access to their holy sites between 1948 and 1967.

Show us that the Hashemites, who have no rights to any lands  in TransJordan or Judea and Samaria (being indigenous of Arabia and moved to TransJordan only around WWI when the Said Clan of Yemen made them run)  did not murder and/or  expel ALL the Jews of Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem in 1948.
Jews who were living there for centuries, even before the Arabs invaded in the 7th Century.

Arabs are not a race or an ethnicity, just as Jews are?
Only a language?
Then there are no British people, only people who speak English?
No Spaniards, Spanish people, only people who speak Spanish.
Sure.  If you say so.


What you do need to start 'denying' is the "right" of Muslims to want all Jews to continue to be dhimmis to Muslims, and never, ever be allowed to be sovereign of their own fate.
Or give the Muslims the 'right' to lose and not feel ashamed, that their 'honor' has been compromised and they must reconquer, even if it means killing all, just to have their "Honor" back.

What you do need to start doing is giving Jews (They have been a People Nation for the past 3000 years) the right to their ancient homeland.  It is called The Land of Israel, and falls exactly where the whole Mandate for Palestine did in 1920.

That land which got suddenly shrunk by the British when they gave the foreigners Hashemites Arabs 77% of that land.

That land which got even smaller when Israel retreated from Gaza in 2006.

It does not matter if you are an Arab, a Muslim or a Christian.

You do not have the right to tell any Jew that the Land of Israel is not their, that they have 'stolen" that land from any other native people, as they did not steal it from the Jews who were already living there (the only ones who were native to the land).

The Jews have not expelled any 'native' people from the Land of Israel, or kept them under 'occupation', ruling over them.

As you do speak fluent Arabic, you know very well what the Arab leaders say.  That there are no Palestinian People.
That the idea of a Palestinian People is being used only to destroy Israel and take the land Israel is on right now.

Deny it if you will.  Arabs telling lies?
Not Mohammad, not Husseini, not Arafat, not Abbas, Mashall, or any other Arab leader, Imam, professor, etc.

Arabs do not lie, isn't that right?


----------



## montelatici

You are hilarious and it demonstrates why you people can't be taken seriously.
_
"Returning to one's indigenous homeland is not "Invading", no matter how many times you repeat it."
_
Europeans are not indigenous to the Middle East.  Even if the European Zionists had a some ancestry in the Middle East, after 2,000 years they would have no right to expel the indigenous and native people, descendants of ancestors had lived there for 3-4 thousand years. The Roma are indigenous to Northwestern India/Pakistan and have remained far more closed as a society than the European Jews.  They even look like Indians.  How do you think the people in India would feel about the UN partitioning an Indian state to make room for the Roma?  And they left northwestern India less than 1500 years ago.

_"And Israel did not expel thousands of Arabs before, during and after the 1948 war,"
_
That's the problem with you people.  Basic facts that don't coincide with your propaganda are just denied by you. 
_
"The Jews have not expelled any 'native' people from the Land of Israel, or kept them under 'occupation', ruling over them."
_
You are out of your mind. Again, you deny facts that no one disputes except maniacs like you.

By the way, I have the right to state the truth to Jews or anyone else.  Who do you think you are, punk.


----------



## Sixties Fan

montelatici said:


> You are hilarious and it demonstrates why you people can't be taken seriously.
> _
> "Returning to one's indigenous homeland is not "Invading", no matter how many times you repeat it."
> _
> Europeans are not indigenous to the Middle East.  Even if the European Zionists had a some ancestry in the Middle East, after 2,000 years they would have no right to expel the indigenous and native people, descendants of ancestors had lived there for 3-4 thousand years. The Roma are indigenous to Northwestern India/Pakistan and have remained far more closed as a society than the European Jews.  They even look like Indians.  How do you think the people in India would feel about the UN partitioning an Indian state to make room for the Roma?  And they left northwestern India less than 1500 years ago.
> 
> _"And Israel did not expel thousands of Arabs before, during and after the 1948 war,"
> _
> That's the problem with you people.  Basic facts that don't coincide with your propaganda are just denied by you.
> _
> "The Jews have not expelled any 'native' people from the Land of Israel, or kept them under 'occupation', ruling over them."
> _
> You are out of your mind. Again, you deny facts that no one disputes except maniacs like you.
> 
> By the way, I have the right to state the truth to Jews or anyone else.  Who do you think you are, punk.




<after 2,000 years they would have no right to expel the indigenous and native people, descendants of ancestors had lived there for 3-4 thousand years.>

Arabs have not been in Ancient Canaan for 4000 years.  That is your lie.

Arabs have never been native of any other region except the Arabian Peninsula.

Palestinians are Arabs

This punk has the right to call you on all of your lies, designed to discredit, delegitimize the indigenous people of Ancient Canaan, who have been mistreated for the past 1400 years by the murderous Arab Muslims who invaded and committed endless crimes against the indigenous people of the Land.  The Jews.

And this "punk" will continue to do so.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> So, a European who had one ancestor 2,000 years who came from the Middle East married a European woman, who subsequently had children that married other Europeans for generations ...



That is a silly claim.  If a "European" had only one ancestor who came 2000 years ago from Israel, it is unlikely in the extreme that the Jewish culture would be preserved, intact, over the course of those 2000 years.  The fact that the Jewish culture was preserved over such a long period of time supports the idea that many generations of Jewish people invested in preserving it.  

But at least we've got you to accept that there WAS a Jewish diaspora into Europe.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> ... the European Zionists had a some ancestry in the Middle East, after 2,000 years they would have no right to expel the ... people, descendants of ancestors had lived there for 3-4 thousand years. The Roma are indigenous to Northwestern India/Pakistan and have remained far more closed as a society than the European Jews.  They even look like Indians.  How do you think the people in India would feel about the UN partitioning an Indian state to make room for the Roma?  And they left northwestern India less than 1500 years ago.



Well, international law and the moral codes it is based on isn't based on "feelings" now, is it?  ISIS "feels" like we should all be living under an Arab Muslim Caliphate, right?  

And besides that, PLENTY of new nations have developed over the past hundred years or so to give sovereignty to ethnic/cultural groups who have a history in their territory of origin.  And there are several groups still working toward that goal who have not yet achieved it.  

If you want to argue that once a ethnic/cultural group has been successfully expelled from their territory -- they no longer have rights to it, go ahead.  But you can't have it both ways.  It means you are arguing that the Arab Palestinians have no rights to Israel.


----------



## rylah

Sixties Fan said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> When a convert marries a Jew and live in the community, after 3-5 generations they certainly become part of the family.
> Converts don't go through the process of conversion to marry Catholics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They never miraculously develop ancestors from the Middle East.  They are Europeans and have European ancestors.  The descendants of the the Jews of Palestine are the current Muslims and Christians of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How is that in every thread You come to Eugenics?
> 
> But anyway, let's say Your daughter marries a Mongol, has a child. Then Your grandchild marries another Mongol. And so on with natural variations of life.
> Where did the Mongol line disappear? And I haven't even mention the usual ethnic signs... The offspring carries both ancestry, the location of birth is irrelevant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you talking about.  A non-Catholic goes through a process of conversion to become a Catholic.
> 
> So, a European who had one ancestor 2,000 years who came from the Middle East married a European woman, who subsequently had children that married other Europeans for generations, have more rights to Palestine than descendants of the indigenous people that left Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What?? What a mess have You done. Ancestry and religion are different things.
> 
> We have been over this before.
> You Yourself provided the proofs that Jews of any diaspora are the closest  to Palestinians, before any other ME community.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the few Jews who have married Arabs willfully, or were forced into marriages or conversion to Islam, the Palestinian Arabs are exactly that.  Arabs.
> Why should Arabs be the closest to Jews, and not the indigenous Egyptians, Assyrians, and others who have also had contact and a small or higher number of integration for the past 2500 years.
> How about the Romans, or the Greeks.
> 
> This "Jews and Palestinians" are closely related is nothing but a way to continue to delegitimize and basically wipe out any Jewish vestige as he just did above.
> 
> Jews disappeared into converting to Christianity and Islam.
> 
> No matter what the proof to the contrary he will continue to try to sell this "saying" of his, because he "knows more than anyone and we will never learn what he knows", something to that effect.
> 
> In a few words:
> 
> He Knows Nothing
> He is into delegitimizing and recruiting more people to attack Israel and the Jews.
> Jew hatred makes people like Monte deny that Jews even exist, or if they do they are connected to the "Palestinian Arabs", AND
> Theodore Herzl and all other Jews who happened to come from Europe are Europeans.  Of course it does not make any other people European if they spent a few centuries in Europe.
> ONLY THE JEWS.
> 
> AND never mind all the other Jews who make up the Jewish people, from Mesopotamia, Iran, and all over the world.
> 
> Monte and CO.  zero in on Herzl and all the Jews who came from Europe and returned to their ancient homeland and have decided that they are "Converted Jews" .  ALL OF THEM.
> 
> Monte does not believe what he tries to sell.
> He knows that all he is posting on the threads are lies, which have been debunked several time by several people, by the facts themselves.
> 
> Keep repeating what you love to peddle.
> 
> Jews are Jews.
> 
> If Jews are not Jews, than Arabs are not Arabs, and Palestinian Arabs are most definitely NOT the indigenous people of ancient Canaan, because their ancestors, unlike the Jewish People's ancestors, did not inhabit ancient Canaan until the Muslim invasion of 1400 years ago.
> Jews were inhabiting that land long before 1400 years ago.  Never stopped inhabiting it, and will continue to inhabit their indigenous Ancient Homeland for perpetuity.
> 
> 
> Sure, Monte does not like this facts, and neither do others like him.
> 
> But such is life.
> 
> L'Echaim
Click to expand...


Totally with You on that!
I'm just using Montelatici's sources to show his hypocrisy.
He doesn't read what his sources say, and they usually contradict him


----------



## rylah

This is NOT to say that Arabs shouldn't live here, but:

Jund Filastin

Let's see:
جند فلسطين‎‎, "military district of Palestine" was one of the military districts of the Ummayad and Abbasid Caliphate province of Bilad al-Sham (*Syria*), organized soon after the Muslim conquest of the Levant in the 630s.

Jund Filastin, which encompassed most of Palaestina Prima and Palaestina Tertia, included the newly established city of Ramla as its capital. *(No Jerusalem?)*

According to al-Biladhuri, the main towns of the district, following its conquest by the Rashidun Caliphate, were Gaza, Sebastia, Nablus, Caesarea, Ludd, Yibna, Imwas, Jaffa, Rafah, and Bayt Jibrin.
*(Again No Jerusalem??)*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's even more interesting:

The Arab tribes that settled Jund Filastin after the Muslim conquest were the Lakhm, Kindah, Qais, Amilah, Judham and the Kinanah;[2]


----------



## rylah

*Khalil Ibrahim al-Wazir *aka 'Abu Jihad' -  the organizer of the *Coastal Road massacre**, *leader and co founder of Fatah







The *Wazirs* or *Waziris* (Pashto: وزير‎) are a Karlani Pashtun tribe found in Pakistan and on its border with Afghanistan. The tribe comprises two geographically separate subgroups and are found in the Waziristan region that takes its name from them. The Utmanzai are settled in the North Waziristan Agency and the Ahmadzai are in the South Waziristan Agency.[1][2][3] Those subgroups are in turn divided further, for example into Utmanzai tribes such as the Bakka Khel and Jani Khel.[4]

The common ancestor of the Ahmadzai and Utmanzai is believed by them to be the eponymous Wazir, who is also ancestor to the Mehsud tribe that has since taken a distinct and divergent path. Through Wazir, the tribes trace their origins to Karlani and thence to the founder of the Pashtun lineage, Qais Abdur Rashid.[5] Some western ethnologists consider them of being mix of Scythian or Tatar ethnicity.[1]


----------



## montelatici

The Hasbara plants continue to make things up.  There own sources contradict their claims or make them appear ridiculous.   Forgetting that there was no place called Jeruslaem when the Muslims conquered Palestine as it was called Aelia Capitolina and was an exclusively Christian city.

The only Arabian tribes to "settle" in Palestine were nomadic Bedouins which, pursuant to the small populations the desert could support were always small in number.  The Arabians arrived as rulers made up a very small part of the invading armies, essentially the officer corps.  The "Arabs" in Palestine are the descendants of the indigenous people who converted to Christianity during later Roman rule and then many of whom converted to Islam during Muslim rule.  

The Hasbara financed fantasists can make things up all they want.  It doesn't change the fact that Europeans of the Judaic faith, with the help and support of the world's most powerful colonial empire, invaded  Palestine, colonized it  and now rule over the native people.  The native people rightfully are fighting to regain their rights and land, something all colonized people do, sometimes successfully and sometimes unsuccessfully.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> The Hasbara plants continue to make things up.  There own sources contradict their claims or make them appear ridiculous.   Forgetting that there was no place called Jeruslaem when the Muslims conquered Palestine as it was called Aelia Capitolina and was an exclusively Christian city.
> 
> The only Arabian tribes to "settle" in Palestine were nomadic Bedouins which, pursuant to the small populations the desert could support were always small in number.  The Arabians arrived as rulers made up a very small part of the invading armies, essentially the officer corps.  The "Arabs" in Palestine are the descendants of the indigenous people who converted to Christianity during later Roman rule and then many of whom converted to Islam during Muslim rule.
> 
> The Hasbara financed fantasists can make things up all they want.  It doesn't change the fact that Europeans of the Judaic faith, with the help and support of the world's most powerful colonial empire, invaded  Palestine, colonized it  and now rule over the native people.  The native people rightfully are fighting to regain their rights and land, something all colonized people do, sometimes successfully and sometimes unsuccessfully.



Oh, my. The boy is cutting and pasting all of his usual slogans and clichés.


----------



## rylah

_"One of Arafat's first presidential measures was to establish the
*Tribal Affairs Department* through Presidential decree no. 161 for the year 1994. This is considered the* reconsolidation of the role of the informal justice system*. 
Birzeit University Institute of Law, 2006a: 37. International attention was focused on the relationship between the Authority and the Islamist opposition movement and, to an extent, accusations of corruption in the PA"
_

_





Women and War in the Middle East_


----------



## Roudy

P F Tinmore said:


> They did not even call themselves Palestinians until the middle 1960s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al Hambra Theatre, Jaffa 1937, flying Palestinian flag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to get off that propaganda.
Click to expand...

That's the flag of the Arab league liar, which later became the Jordanian flag,

The Paletinian flag circa 1960's, is a total knock off of the Jordanian flag.  Another reason why Palestinian is a hoax and a made up identity.


----------



## rylah

By looking through the wrong end of the telescope, many in the Western world think of tribal people as nomads, riding camels and living in harsh and remote desert areas. This is not the reality in the Arab Middle East, where the distinction between tribal and non-tribal does not correspond in any significant way between nomadic and settled populations. The majority of Middle Eastern tribes do not move. 

Tribal populations, for instance, in Iraq and Yemen are settled farmers, who plant fruits and vegetables beside their sorghum and mill et. Remarkably, tribal identity in the region is still alive in the socio-political consciousness of millions of Arabs residing in modern globalising cities. This unique phenomenon is one of the excellent mirrors to reflect how tribalism in the Arab world is not a way of life.  

Rather, it is an identity, which is grounded in cultural psychology and politics. In other words, tribalism in the Middle East is culturally rooted and politically shaped. It’s uneven development and strength in the region is the outcome of the divergent and changing types of state formation, colonial penetration, economic growth and societal changes. 

It is also important to note that the relationships between political administrations, whether foreign or indigenous, and tribes in the region were never fixed. Instead, they were always subject to adjustments in response to alterations in security, economic and political circumstances. 

The only fixed feature in these relations is that tribes become strong when political administrations are weak. In other words, the strength of the tribes is closely linked to the weakness of the state. In light of this, the role of tribes in state building in the Middle East is balanced by the role of the state in destroying tribes...

*The exercise of power by tribes and their leaders should not be seen, however, as a tribally-motivated attempt to overthrow modern state institutions and replace them by a traditional tribal political order. Rather, Arab tribal leaders prefer the extraction of maximum political concessions and economic benefits from the state, without being directly involved in the complex management of state affairs.*
*
Tribes and tribalism in the Arab Spring




*


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> _"One of Arafat's first presidential measures was to establish the
> *Tribal Affairs Department* through Presidential decree no. 161 for the year 1994. This is considered the* reconsolidation of the role of the informal justice system*.
> Birzeit University Institute of Law, 2006a: 37. International attention was focused on the relationship between the Authority and the Islamist opposition movement and, to an extent, accusations of corruption in the PA"
> _
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women and War in the Middle East_


*SUMMARY

The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed that Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists, giving serious cause for concern.*
*
*
"Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine boycotted the elections on the grounds that they were held in the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip. Hamas refused to hold the elections in Gaza in protest against the Palestinian High Court of Justice’s calling off in September 2016 of the local elections that were scheduled for the next month, as well as in protest of President Mahmoud Abbas’ formation of the Local Elections Court on Jan. 10 without consulting the Palestinian factions....

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign manager for the tribal National Alliance list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. Independent lists won the other three seats.

*Nashar said that in many of the West Bank governorates and villages, voters opted for independent and tribal lists because they are tired of the Palestinian parties and their political affiliations, which he said have a negative impact on the interests of citizens. *Also, he added, voters have become convinced that partisan lists never implement their electoral programs....

Abdel Sattar Qassem, a professor of political science at An-Najah National University in Nablus, told Al-Monitor* that the victory of the tribal lists in many municipal councils in the local elections poses a threat to the Palestinian people because of the return of what he called "tribal reunification" at the expense of the national public interest.* He attributed this to the people’s loss of confidence in political parties.

He told Al-Monitor, “There is a great leadership vacuum in the Palestinian arena — both socially and politically — and someone had to fill this vacuum, so families and tribes managed to do so.”

He added, “Tribes are a separatist social structure, not a unitary one. Each family works to preserve its own interests, regardless of the public interest, and this is why a great danger is lurking. Social and political division will come to affect individuals and families in one town, whereas it has been *until now only confined to Hamas and Fatah.”*

The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism


----------



## rylah

*Palestine Liberation Organization*
During the January 1964 Arab League summit,  Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser decided to establish an organization to represent the Palestinians. In May 1964, the Palestine Liberation Organization or PLO was established with the purpose of the "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle, with much of its violence aimed at Israeli civilians.
*



*


The original Palestinian National Covenant stated in 1964:

*Article 1.* Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which* together form the large Arab homeland.*

*Article 11. *The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity, and in order to play its role in realizing this goal, it must, at this stage of its struggle preserve its Palestinian personality and all its constituents. It must strengthen the consciousness of its existence and stand against any attempt or plan that may weaken or disintegrate its personality.

*Article 12. Arab unity and the liberation of Palestine are two complementary goals; each prepares for the attainment of the other. Arab unity leads to the liberation of Palestine, and the liberation of Palestine leads to Arab unity. Working for both must go side by side.*
https://books.google.co.il/books?id...UAhULKlAKHd75C-oQ6AEIODAC#v=onepage&q&f=false


Yasser Arafat (left), Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser (center) and King Hussein of Jordan (right).


----------



## montelatici

Are you trying to make some sort of point?  Of course the Palestinians want the liberation of Palestine.  Why wouldn't they?


----------



## rylah

All I see is 'Arab homeland', 'Arab Nation' and 'Arab unity' and Palestine being just a small puzzle piece in one large Arab country throughout the whole of ME, the one Arafat was talking about:


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> All I see is 'Arab homeland', 'Arab Nation' and 'Arab unity' and Palestine being just a small puzzle piece in one large Arab country throughout the whole of ME, the one Arafat was talking about:



So what?  Palestine was inhabited by Muslim and Christians that believed that a unified Arab state was a good thing.  It doesn't mean that they were not Palestinian nationalists.  Again, what is your point.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I see is 'Arab homeland', 'Arab Nation' and 'Arab unity' and Palestine being just a small puzzle piece in one large Arab country throughout the whole of ME, the one Arafat was talking about:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  Palestine was inhabited by Muslim and Christians that believed that a unified Arab state was a good thing.  It doesn't mean that they were not Palestinian nationalists.  Again, what is your point.
Click to expand...


Actually, it's quite obvious why you don't speak on behalf of Moslems and xtians who occupied the Ottoman controlled land area called Pal'istan. 

Quite obviously, those Moslems and xtians didn't think enough of the idea to make any concerted effort toward a unified Arab state. 

Have you considered that xtians, being a minority in an Arab state would face the same discrimination and oppression heaped on all minority religions in Arab-Islamist majority nations? 

No, of course you never think things through.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I see is 'Arab homeland', 'Arab Nation' and 'Arab unity' and Palestine being just a small puzzle piece in one large Arab country throughout the whole of ME, the one Arafat was talking about:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what?  Palestine was inhabited by Muslim and Christians that believed that a unified Arab state was a good thing.  It doesn't mean that they were not Palestinian nationalists.  Again, what is your point.
Click to expand...


Point? I just present what I learn about the Palestinians and their supporters.
You conclude on Yourself...

Montelatici wrote (post #139)
_"Yes, Jerusalem should be 100% Christian. We have the power, why should we allow non-believers to have any authority in Jerusalem? Why do we need to be fair or accommodating? Throw out the troublemakers. Deus Vult."_

Why Montelatici* 'doesn't  'understand'* I wonder?


----------



## montelatici

What's to conclude?  That the Palestinians were subjected to colonialism and now occupation?  Everyone that's a neutral knows that.


----------



## rylah

Who cares what a parrot thinks, especially when talking for "EVERYONE"...


----------



## rylah

*Will tribalism dominate upcoming Palestinian elections?*

*Summary:*
_As electoral lists form in the runup to the local Palestinian elections, various political factions worry that tribal and family loyalties will trump political affiliations._


Hamas' representative to the Central Elections Commission, Sami Abu Zuhri, told Al-Monitor, “Hamas will not take part in local elections through partisan lists in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Rather, it will support lists consisting of competent and professional candidates and some family figures. Hamas does not overlook family affiliations in local elections, provided that this factor does not overshadow the candidates’ competence, professionalism and political affiliation. This is because local elections concern local councils in each town, village or city. *Family and tribal affiliations are strongly present, but should not be a major criterion in the formation of electoral lists.”*

Iyad Qarnaz, Fatah’s representative in the Central Elections Commission, told Al-Monitor, *“The tribal affiliations were taken into account during the formation of Fatah’s lists — as tribes consist of a key component of Palestinian society *— but not at the expense of competency-related criteria. This is because competencies are important for the furthering of the citizens’ interests, and Fatah is striving to form an electoral list guaranteeing fair representation of all Palestinian social groups. On election day, Fatah members will be voting for those candidates selected by the movement, rather than candidates based on tribal affiliation, *in a way that is satisfactory to the families* and that serves the people’s interests at the same time.”

*Tribes and families have opposed candidates suggested by factions and promoted their own candidates despite their rejection by the parties’ leadership and popular base.* Many electoral lists are thus being formed based on familial and tribal factors. In some cases a single family has placed multiple candidates in a single list, and in others, the same family nominated candidates in competing lists to guarantee a win.

Will tribalism dominate upcoming Palestinian elections?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*What tribe was Yasser Arafat from?*


----------



## montelatici

Again, Hasbara tactics.  I said "everyone that's a neutral".  You Hasbara types think you are more clever than us gentiles, but that is not the case.  Many of us gentiles have been brainwashed, but there are many us that have not.  More importantly, many Jews, if not the majority, agree with us.


----------



## montelatici

I find it extremely humorous that Zionist Jews complain about tribalism.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Again, Hasbara tactics.  I said "everyone that's a neutral".  You Hasbara types think you are more clever than us gentiles, but that is not the case.  Many of us gentiles have been brainwashed, but there are many us that have not.  More importantly, many Jews, if not the majority, agree with us.



_The Monty_ speaks "for us", because _The Monty_ says so.


----------



## rylah

Interesting, why do Palestinians choose their representatives to be of certain elite Arabian tribes?


----------



## rylah

*al-Masri (Arabic: المصري‎‎) or el-Masri is Arabic for "Egyptian" or "the Egyptian"






*
Munib al-Masri (left) and HAMAS Prime minister  Ismail Hanneyah (right)
*


Munib Rashid al-Masri* (Arabic: *منيب المصري*‎‎), also known as the "Duke of Nablus", "the Godfather",[1] and the "Palestinian Rothschild"[2](b. 1934), is a Palestinian industrialist, statesman, and patriarch of the al-Masri family, currently serving as chairman of the Edgo Group, a multinational energy and engineering conglomerate, and of PADICO, a holding company which controls thirty-five companies spanning industries as diverse as telecommunications, construction, tourism, energy, banking and other finance, and agriculture.[3] al-Masri is widely described as the world's richest Palestinian,[4][5][6] with personal holdings that reportedly account for a third of the Palestinian economy.[7]





al-Masri (left) with Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not saying al-Masri's are all terrorists but for reference on that clan:

Abu Ayyub al-Masri - Wikipedia


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Interesting, why do Palestinians choose their representatives to be of certain elite Arabian tribes?



Because they are not Arabian tribes.  They are Levantines.  Just as the Nassers, the Habbash,the Sunnunu, the Ashrawi, etc. Who happen to be Christians. LOL


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> What's to conclude?  That the Palestinians were subjected to colonialism and now occupation?  Everyone that's a neutral knows that.



You don't yet seem to be able to comprehend that the Arab-Moslem squatters were themselves colonists.


----------



## rylah

Let's look:


montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, why do Palestinians choose their representatives to be of certain elite Arabian tribes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because they are not Arabian tribes.  They are Levantines.  Just as the Nassers, the Habbash,the Sunnunu, the Ashrawi, etc. Who happen to be Christians. LOL
Click to expand...


Well You said so - it must be real. Nahhh

Let's take a deeper look:
*Gamal Abdel Nasser* - an Egyptian president
*Chris Sununu, John E. Sununu and John H. Sununu* - are all in the US govt. not Palestine. 

John E. is the Governor of New Hampshire and John H. was the WH Chief of Staff under George Bush.

So much for "Palestinian elected representatives" so far...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Dr. Mahmoud *Habbash*, *Supreme Sharia Judge in the Palestinian Authority* and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s advisor on religious and Islamic affairs.

*Al-Habash* was an ancient region in the Horn of Africa. Situated in the northern highlands of modern-day Eritrea and Ethiopia,[1] it was inhabited by the _Habash_ or Abyssinians, who were the forebears of the Habesha people.[2]


But does it contradict the fact tribes and hamullah's (clans of families) among Palestinians are still stronger than modern political structures?
Tribalism is alive and kicking in th Arab world.


----------



## rylah

*Dalal Mughrabi* (Arabic: دلال المغربي‎‎, Dalāl al-Muɣrabī; _c._ 1959 – 11 March 1978) was a Palestinian militant who was a member of the Fatah faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and participated in the 1978 Coastal Road massacre in Israel. The attack resulted in the death of 38 Israeli civilians, including 13 children.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Maghrebis* or *Maghrebians* are the native inhabitants of the Maghreb in Northwest Africa. Maghrebis were known in medieval times as Moors. This ethnocultural group was autochthonous to the Greater Maghreb and the western part of the Islamic world, an area stretching from Tunisia to Spain.[11] The term _Moor_ is derived from _Mauri_, the name given by the Romans to the Berber inhabitants of northern Morocco and Algeria.


----------



## rylah

The Bosnian Palestinians aka 'Bushnaks', the Ridwan clan was among the most prominent rulers of Gaza:


*Ri̊ḍwān Pas̲h̲a*

, a 10th/16th-century Ottoman _beylerbeyi_ (governor) of Yemen largely responsible for the collapse of Ottoman authority there during 974-6/1566-8. He was the son of Muṣṭafā Pas̲h̲a Ḳara S̲h̲āhīn [_q.v._], a previous governor of Yemen (963-7/1556-60), and the brother of Bahrām Pas̲h̲a, a later one (977-83/1570-5). When appointed to Yemen in Rabīʿ- II 972/November 1564, *he was sand̲j̲aḳ beyi of G̲h̲azza.*





Ri̊ḍwān Pas̲h̲a - Brill Reference

"Behram Pasha's father,*Kara Sahin Mustafa Pasha* (d.1564), was a Bosnian recruited through the _divesirme _who served as a governor of Yemen..."





The Image of an Ottoman City


----------



## rylah

From the infamous far-left Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper pro-Palestinians like to quote:

"_The field that was being worked by the Israeli tractor is owned by the Bushnak family, from Nablus. It has leased the field for decades to residents of Akrabeh and Yanun. In the past two years, the farmers say, Israelis have prevented them from planting wheat in this plot, as they have traditionally done.

*The origins of the Bushnak families that live in Palestine are in Bosnia. They were Muslim soldiers who were brought here to reinforce the Turkish army at the end of the 19th century and settled in various places in the country, including Yanun.* Although they were not originally from one family, they adopted a common surname that attests to their extraction. When they moved to Nablus from Yanun, they leased their land to the residents of Akrabeh, who gradually began to leave their village and settle in the wadi, the plateau and the hill of Yanun. Payment for leasing the land could be made in the form of wheat, olive oil or cash. About three-quarters of Yanun's 16,000 dunams (4,000 acres) of land is leased."_

It's the pits


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

mudwhistle said:


> Isn't Palestine derived from Philistine?



The earliest mention of the Land as Palestine (probably in reference to the Philistines, a non-Arabic, non-Semitic people from the Greek Isles who invaded the southern coast of the Land in the 2nd half of the 12th Century BCE) is by the Greek historian Herodotus in the 5th Century BCE.
In contrast, one of the earliest mention of the Land as Israel can be found four hundred years earlier in the 9th Century BCE archaeological find the Mesha Stele commissioned by the king of Moab (present-day Jordan) which mentions Israel and a king of Israel, namely, Omri. The Mesha Stele aka Moabite Stone is housed at The Louvre in Paris, France.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Epsilon Delta said:


> Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right?



Guy, get a clue.  Most Jews live in Israel.


----------



## Ria_Longhorn

Even UNGA resolution 181 (Partition Resolution) doesn't call the Arabs "Palestinians" but simply Arabs.  That body would not call the Arabs "Palestinians" until 1970.


----------



## Challenger

Ria_Longhorn said:


> Epsilon Delta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most Jews live in the US, so I guess Israel is not needed right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, get a clue.  Most Jews live in Israel.
Click to expand...

Take your own advice. If the world's Jewish population is 14.2 million and only 6.4 million live in the Zionist Paradise, most Jewish people live anywhere but Zionist Israel.


----------



## montelatici

Ria_Longhorn said:


> Even UNGA resolution 181 (Partition Resolution) doesn't call the Arabs "Palestinians" but simply Arabs.  That body would not call the Arabs "Palestinians" until 1970.



It is clear that the Hasbara brainwashing has been effective on the American morons.

From 1922, how many times do the Christians and Muslims of the Palestinian Delegation to London (in 1922) have to call themselves the People of Palestine?

*"PALESTINE.*

*CORRESPONDENCE *
*WITH THE*
*PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION*
*AND THE *
*ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*

*Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.*
*JUNE, 1922.*
*LONDON:*




*PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.*
*To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the*
*following address:*
*Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:*
*York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;*
*15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller*


*1922.*
*[Reprinted 1929]*
*Price 1s. od.net.*

*[Cmd. 1700.]*
*PALESTINE.*
CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB 
DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.


No. 1.
*The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.*


HOTEL CECIL,
London, W.C.,
_February 21st, _1922.

If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant *the People of Palestine* — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day* the People of Palestine *assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.

We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—


https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/48A7E5584EE1403485256CD8006C3FBE


----------



## P F Tinmore

montelatici said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even UNGA resolution 181 (Partition Resolution) doesn't call the Arabs "Palestinians" but simply Arabs.  That body would not call the Arabs "Palestinians" until 1970.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that the Hasbara brainwashing has been effective on the American morons.
> 
> From 1922, how many times do the Christians and Muslims of the Palestinian Delegation to London (in 1922) have to call themselves the People of Palestine?
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
> To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
> following address:
> Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
> York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
> 15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller*
> 
> 
> *1922.
> [Reprinted 1929]
> Price 1s. od.net.*
> 
> *[Cmd. 1700.]
> PALESTINE.*
> CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB
> DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.
> 
> 
> No. 1.
> *The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.*
> 
> 
> HOTEL CECIL,
> London, W.C.,
> _February 21st, _1922.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant *the People of Palestine* — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day* the People of Palestine *assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.
> 
> We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—
> 
> 
> https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/48A7E5584EE1403485256CD8006C3FBE
Click to expand...

And besides, they were the same people no matter the name.


----------



## abu afak

Ria_Longhorn said:


> Even UNGA resolution 181 (Partition Resolution) doesn't call the Arabs "Palestinians" but simply Arabs.  That body would not call the Arabs "Palestinians" until 1970.


EVEN *Resolutioin 242 - of 1967 - does Not mention 'Palestinians!'* Only refers to 'refugees.'

There was No 'palestine' from 1948-1967 as Arabs didn't buy that made up crap. Jordan had annexed the rejected state during that period.
Israel won the territories from Jordan, not Palestink.
!


----------



## P F Tinmore

abu afak said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even UNGA resolution 181 (Partition Resolution) doesn't call the Arabs "Palestinians" but simply Arabs.  That body would not call the Arabs "Palestinians" until 1970.
> 
> 
> 
> EVEN *Resolutioin 242 - of 1967 - does Not mention 'Palestinians!'* Only refers to 'refugees.'
> 
> There was No 'palestine' from 1948-1967 as Arabs didn't buy that made up crap. Jordan had annexed the rejected state during that period.
> Israel won the territories from Jordan, not Palestink.
> !
Click to expand...

Since it is illegal to annex occupied territory, Jordan could not annex the West Bank. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even UNGA resolution 181 (Partition Resolution) doesn't call the Arabs "Palestinians" but simply Arabs.  That body would not call the Arabs "Palestinians" until 1970.
> 
> 
> 
> EVEN *Resolutioin 242 - of 1967 - does Not mention 'Palestinians!'* Only refers to 'refugees.'
> 
> There was No 'palestine' from 1948-1967 as Arabs didn't buy that made up crap. Jordan had annexed the rejected state during that period.
> Israel won the territories from Jordan, not Palestink.
> !
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since it is illegal to annex occupied territory, Jordan could not annex the West Bank. It remained occupied Palestinian territory. It is still occupied Palestinian territory.
Click to expand...


You haven't answered the question of why Resolution 242 refers to those Arabs as refugees and not as Palestinians.  Hint:  Because the Palestinian nationality had not emerged yet.  Even the Palestinian flag is a rip-off of Jordan's flag.  They are one people.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Ria_Longhorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even UNGA resolution 181 (Partition Resolution) doesn't call the Arabs "Palestinians" but simply Arabs.  That body would not call the Arabs "Palestinians" until 1970.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is clear that the Hasbara brainwashing has been effective on the American morons.
> 
> From 1922, how many times do the Christians and Muslims of the Palestinian Delegation to London (in 1922) have to call themselves the People of Palestine?
> 
> *"PALESTINE.*
> 
> *CORRESPONDENCE
> WITH THE
> PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION
> AND THE
> ZIONIST ORGANISATION.*
> 
> *Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
> JUNE, 1922.
> LONDON:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PUBLISHED BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE.
> To be purchased directly from H.M. STATIONERY OFFICE, at the
> following address:
> Adastra House, Kingsway, London, W.C. 2; 120, George Street, Edinburgh:
> York Street, Manchester; 1, St. Andre's Crescent, Cardiff;
> 15, Donegall Square West, Belfast; or through any Bookseller*
> 
> 
> *1922.
> [Reprinted 1929]
> Price 1s. od.net.*
> 
> *[Cmd. 1700.]
> PALESTINE.*
> CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB
> DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.
> 
> 
> No. 1.
> *The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.*
> 
> 
> HOTEL CECIL,
> London, W.C.,
> _February 21st, _1922.
> 
> If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist _con-dominium, _put a stop to all alien immigration and grant *the People of Palestine* — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day* the People of Palestine *assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration.
> 
> We, therefore, hold that the proposed constitution is wholly unsatisfactory, because:—
> 
> 
> UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)
Click to expand...


But initially "the people of Palestine" identified as *Syrians*.
Just 3 years prior to the delegation the Palestine Arab Congress stated this:

_1 .* "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria *as it has never been separated from it at any time. *We are connected with it by national*, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. "

3. "In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection."

First Palestinian Arab Congress
_
The key here is to understand the use of the word 'Arab' in all those documents, as in 'Arab Syria' and 'Palestine Arab delegation'.
No 'Palestinian' nationalism until many decades later.


----------



## rylah

The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi 






The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.

Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi 

Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine. 


Dynasties

The Aghlabid dynasty
The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
*


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *


My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?
Click to expand...


You can't be a hypocrite and talk out of both sides of your mouth.  (I mean, you can do that but it's not right to do.)  If Arabs can migrate to the Holy Land from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Egypt, then Jews can also migrate there from Russia, Poland and Yemen.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?
Click to expand...


Does that mean Jews have no rights to self determination in that land?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't be a hypocrite and talk out of both sides of your mouth.  (I mean, you can do that but it's not right to do.)  If Arabs can migrate to the Holy Land from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Egypt, then Jews can also migrate there from Russia, Poland and Yemen.
Click to expand...

Not to kick out the people who already live there and park your fat ass on their land.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that mean Jews have no rights to self determination in that land?
Click to expand...

*Nobody* has the right to violate the rights of others.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that mean Jews have no rights to self determination in that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Nobody* has the right to violate the rights of others.
Click to expand...


This is childish, what are governments and police for?


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that mean Jews have no rights to self determination in that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Nobody* has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is childish, what are governments and police for?
Click to expand...

To protect the 1%?

Nice deflection though.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The poster child of Palestine - *Ahed Tamimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties
> *
> 
> 
> *
> 
> The Aghlabid dynasty
> 
> The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)
> 
> The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My family is from England, Scotland, and Germany. Does that mean I am not American?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that mean Jews have no rights to self determination in that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Nobody* has the right to violate the rights of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is childish, what are governments and police for?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To protect the 1%?
> 
> Nice deflection though.
Click to expand...


Tell that to Yazidis, Kurds and other minorities throughout the Arab world.


----------



## rylah

pft Timore, are You saying

Saudi Emirs have a right to self determination in Palestine, al-Masris and al-Maghrebis have the right, Bosnians and Bedouins all deserve it  too...but not the Jews?


----------



## montelatici

The only people that had the legal right to self determination in Palestine, pursuant to the LoN, were the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of signing of the LoN. The inhabitants of Palestine practiced different religions at the time, Judaism included. People that practiced these religions that were not inhabitants, did not have the right to self-determination in Palestine. It's really quite simple,  the LoN did not envision the colonization of Palestine by Europeans, for example.


----------



## rylah

The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.


Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
Click to expand...

The Zionists called it colonialism until colonialism got a bad name then they changed their shtick to self determination.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism until colonialism got a bad name then they changed their shtick to self determination.
Click to expand...


The Arabs-Moslems called their conquest a holy Mandate to subjugate the  kuffar, and still do.


----------



## Challenger

P F Tinmore said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Zionists called it colonialism until colonialism got a bad name then they changed their shtick to self determination.
Click to expand...

True.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> The only people that had the legal right to self determination in Palestine, pursuant to the LoN, were the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of signing of the LoN. The inhabitants of Palestine practiced different religions at the time, Judaism included. People that practiced these religions that were not inhabitants, did not have the right to self-determination in Palestine. It's really quite simple,  the LoN did not envision the colonization of Palestine by Europeans, for example.



You haven't been keeping up with the discussion on this thread.  rylah brought all kinds of proofs and links to prove that the Arabs of Palestine came from different Arab tribes from Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, etc.  All the proof was so overwhelming that Tinmore claimed that he was an American despite the fact that his grandparents came from Scotland and Germany; therefore Palestinians whose grandparents came from Egypt are still Palestinians.  I then called Tinmore a hypocrite and asked why then can't my cousins, whose grandparents came from Poland after WW2, not be called Israelis?  Then you come along and say that the Palestinians are direct descendants from the Canaanites of long ago.  Tinmore had already conceded, by that point, that the Arabs of Palestine came from all over Arabia and the Middle East.  Try to keep up!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
Click to expand...


The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only people that had the legal right to self determination in Palestine, pursuant to the LoN, were the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of signing of the LoN. The inhabitants of Palestine practiced different religions at the time, Judaism included. People that practiced these religions that were not inhabitants, did not have the right to self-determination in Palestine. It's really quite simple,  the LoN did not envision the colonization of Palestine by Europeans, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been keeping up with the discussion on this thread.  rylah brought all kinds of proofs and links to prove that the Arabs of Palestine came from different Arab tribes from Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, etc.  All the proof was so overwhelming that Tinmore claimed that he was an American despite the fact that his grandparents came from Scotland and Germany; therefore Palestinians whose grandparents came from Egypt are still Palestinians.  I then called Tinmore a hypocrite and asked why then can't my cousins, whose grandparents came from Poland after WW2, not be called Israelis?  Then you come along and say that the Palestinians are direct descendants from the Canaanites of long ago.  Tinmore had already conceded, by that point, that the Arabs of Palestine came from all over Arabia and the Middle East.  Try to keep up!
Click to expand...

You are obviously confused. That is no surprise because Israel does it best to keep people confused.

One of the core principles of international law is that the people are "married" to the land. The land cannot be taken from the people and the people cannot be taken from the land. They are the people of the place. Race, religion, color, or national origin are irrelevant. They are all the people of that place.

Immigration is the act of moving to a place to become a part of that place, to live among the people as one of those people.

Zionist colonialism was not immigration. There was no intent of being Palestinian or living with the existing population. The intent was to live separate from, and eventually in place of, the existing population. This is illegal on many fronts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only people that had the legal right to self determination in Palestine, pursuant to the LoN, were the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of signing of the LoN. The inhabitants of Palestine practiced different religions at the time, Judaism included. People that practiced these religions that were not inhabitants, did not have the right to self-determination in Palestine. It's really quite simple,  the LoN did not envision the colonization of Palestine by Europeans, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been keeping up with the discussion on this thread.  rylah brought all kinds of proofs and links to prove that the Arabs of Palestine came from different Arab tribes from Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, etc.  All the proof was so overwhelming that Tinmore claimed that he was an American despite the fact that his grandparents came from Scotland and Germany; therefore Palestinians whose grandparents came from Egypt are still Palestinians.  I then called Tinmore a hypocrite and asked why then can't my cousins, whose grandparents came from Poland after WW2, not be called Israelis?  Then you come along and say that the Palestinians are direct descendants from the Canaanites of long ago.  Tinmore had already conceded, by that point, that the Arabs of Palestine came from all over Arabia and the Middle East.  Try to keep up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are obviously confused. That is no surprise because Israel does it best to keep people confused.
> 
> One of the core principles of international law is that the people are "married" to the land. The land cannot be taken from the people and the people cannot be taken from the land. They are the people of the place. Race, religion, color, or national origin are irrelevant. They are all the people of that place.
> 
> Immigration is the act of moving to a place to become a part of that place, to live among the people as one of those people.
> 
> Zionist colonialism was not immigration. There was no intent of being Palestinian or living with the existing population. The intent was to live separate from, and eventually in place of, the existing population. This is illegal on many fronts.
Click to expand...


The above describes the Islamist conquest and colonization of the area.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only people that had the legal right to self determination in Palestine, pursuant to the LoN, were the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of signing of the LoN. The inhabitants of Palestine practiced different religions at the time, Judaism included. People that practiced these religions that were not inhabitants, did not have the right to self-determination in Palestine. It's really quite simple,  the LoN did not envision the colonization of Palestine by Europeans, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been keeping up with the discussion on this thread.  rylah brought all kinds of proofs and links to prove that the Arabs of Palestine came from different Arab tribes from Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, etc.  All the proof was so overwhelming that Tinmore claimed that he was an American despite the fact that his grandparents came from Scotland and Germany; therefore Palestinians whose grandparents came from Egypt are still Palestinians.  I then called Tinmore a hypocrite and asked why then can't my cousins, whose grandparents came from Poland after WW2, not be called Israelis?  Then you come along and say that the Palestinians are direct descendants from the Canaanites of long ago.  Tinmore had already conceded, by that point, that the Arabs of Palestine came from all over Arabia and the Middle East.  Try to keep up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are obviously confused. That is no surprise because Israel does it best to keep people confused.
> 
> One of the core principles of international law is that the people are "married" to the land. The land cannot be taken from the people and the people cannot be taken from the land. They are the people of the place. Race, religion, color, or national origin are irrelevant. They are all the people of that place.
> 
> Immigration is the act of moving to a place to become a part of that place, to live among the people as one of those people.
> 
> Zionist colonialism was not immigration. There was no intent of being Palestinian or living with the existing population. The intent was to live separate from, and eventually in place of, the existing population. This is illegal on many fronts.
Click to expand...


You basically described the long struggle of the Jews in that land.
They remained as the people of the place for thousands of years, kept the culture of the place, religion, and close connection to their holiest places in that land.

The Arabs represented the domination of foreign people and their culture. There was no Palestinian nationalism but  Arab nationalism first, and it was to continue the domination over a variety of different nations in the ME. There was the domination of the Arab culture, not any distinct Palestinian culture. The language was Arabic - not the language of the place.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
Click to expand...



All this disregard for the Jews and their heritage, is because You try to justify the continuation of the Arab colonial agenda. The people You're defending have no heritage or distinct culture connecting them to that land. They identify as Arabs or Syrians first before any territorial question arises. More than that, their culture justifies the Jewish connection to that land, and justifies their resettlement in it.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only people that had the legal right to self determination in Palestine, pursuant to the LoN, were the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of signing of the LoN. The inhabitants of Palestine practiced different religions at the time, Judaism included. People that practiced these religions that were not inhabitants, did not have the right to self-determination in Palestine. It's really quite simple,  the LoN did not envision the colonization of Palestine by Europeans, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been keeping up with the discussion on this thread.  rylah brought all kinds of proofs and links to prove that the Arabs of Palestine came from different Arab tribes from Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, etc.  All the proof was so overwhelming that Tinmore claimed that he was an American despite the fact that his grandparents came from Scotland and Germany; therefore Palestinians whose grandparents came from Egypt are still Palestinians.  I then called Tinmore a hypocrite and asked why then can't my cousins, whose grandparents came from Poland after WW2, not be called Israelis?  Then you come along and say that the Palestinians are direct descendants from the Canaanites of long ago.  Tinmore had already conceded, by that point, that the Arabs of Palestine came from all over Arabia and the Middle East.  Try to keep up!
Click to expand...


There was no proof at all, just Zionist propaganda.  But it really doesn't matter, the LoN was clear that the inhabitants were to be protected and receive the tutelage to achieve self-determination.  The inhabitants were 95% Christians and Muslims.  The Europeans were not inhabitants.  Get it?


----------



## Challenger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
Click to expand...


The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.

As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
Click to expand...


So basically what you are saying is that there were no Kingdoms of Israel and Judah during Biblical times, and furthermore that there was no Maccabean Kingdom of Judea prior to it being turned into a Roman puppet state during the time of King Herod.  OK.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only people that had the legal right to self determination in Palestine, pursuant to the LoN, were the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of signing of the LoN. The inhabitants of Palestine practiced different religions at the time, Judaism included. People that practiced these religions that were not inhabitants, did not have the right to self-determination in Palestine. It's really quite simple,  the LoN did not envision the colonization of Palestine by Europeans, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't been keeping up with the discussion on this thread.  rylah brought all kinds of proofs and links to prove that the Arabs of Palestine came from different Arab tribes from Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, etc.  All the proof was so overwhelming that Tinmore claimed that he was an American despite the fact that his grandparents came from Scotland and Germany; therefore Palestinians whose grandparents came from Egypt are still Palestinians.  I then called Tinmore a hypocrite and asked why then can't my cousins, whose grandparents came from Poland after WW2, not be called Israelis?  Then you come along and say that the Palestinians are direct descendants from the Canaanites of long ago.  Tinmore had already conceded, by that point, that the Arabs of Palestine came from all over Arabia and the Middle East.  Try to keep up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was no proof at all, just Zionist propaganda.  But it really doesn't matter, the LoN was clear that the inhabitants were to be protected and receive the tutelage to achieve self-determination.  The inhabitants were 95% Christians and Muslims.  The Europeans were not inhabitants.  Get it?
Click to expand...


Of course Europeans were inhabitants too, Bushnaks are Bosnian Palestinians and they were the ruling class, as other notable families of Arabian tribes and North African immigrants. These people are still dominating the Palestinian ruling class today.

The LoN was also clear on the establishing a national home for the Jews, there was no mention of a 'Palestinian national home' as far as I know, because the Arabs did not want another country for their own, they identified as Syrians and wanted to continue their colonial project in the ME.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
Click to expand...


Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
Click to expand...


Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
Click to expand...


I understand rylah's logic very well.  Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc.  A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.


----------



## montelatici

That's like saying that a Colombian does not have a distinct heritage because a Colombian's heritage and language is not that distinct from 20 or so other Latin American countries.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> That's like saying that a Colombian does not have a distinct heritage because a Colombian's heritage and language is not that distinct from 20 or so other Latin American countries.



Um.  If Colombia's heritage is NOT distinct from its neighbors, how are you going to claim it has a distinct heritage?


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand rylah's logic very well.  Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc.  A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.
Click to expand...

And besides that, what difference does it make?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
Click to expand...


Now that's pretty darn funny. Since when at what point did invading Turks, invaders / squatters from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon, and invaders / colonists from Europe - invading Christian Crusaders become the "native inhabitants"?


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand rylah's logic very well.  Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc.  A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides that, what difference does it make?
Click to expand...


Quite clearly, "Pal'istanian" is an invented national identity, invented by an Egyptian as a label for an invented people.


----------



## Eloy

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
Click to expand...

You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.


----------



## Hollie

Eloy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
Click to expand...


No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.
Click to expand...

The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.
Click to expand...


Such an angry Islamist. Yet, despite your _ipso facto'ing, _there was never any materialization of your invented "country of Palistan"

Why would Arafat need to invent "Pal'istanians" if they already existed?

_Ipso facto_, an Egyptian invented a national identity for an invented people.

Indeed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist. Yet, despite your _ipso facto'ing, _there was never any materialization of your invented "country of Palistan"
> 
> Why would Arafat need to invent "Pal'istanians" if they already existed?
> 
> _Ipso facto_, an Egyptian invented a national identity for an invented people.
> 
> Indeed.
Click to expand...

So you post an Israeli invention.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist. Yet, despite your _ipso facto'ing, _there was never any materialization of your invented "country of Palistan"
> 
> Why would Arafat need to invent "Pal'istanians" if they already existed?
> 
> _Ipso facto_, an Egyptian invented a national identity for an invented people.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli invention.
Click to expand...


Arafat, the inventor of 'Pal'istanians", was Egyptian. 

Try paying attention.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist. Yet, despite your _ipso facto'ing, _there was never any materialization of your invented "country of Palistan"
> 
> Why would Arafat need to invent "Pal'istanians" if they already existed?
> 
> _Ipso facto_, an Egyptian invented a national identity for an invented people.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli invention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arafat, the inventor of 'Pal'istanians", was Egyptian.
> 
> Try paying attention.
Click to expand...

Israeli bullshit.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.
> 
> 
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such an angry Islamist. Yet, despite your _ipso facto'ing, _there was never any materialization of your invented "country of Palistan"
> 
> Why would Arafat need to invent "Pal'istanians" if they already existed?
> 
> _Ipso facto_, an Egyptian invented a national identity for an invented people.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you post an Israeli invention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Arafat, the inventor of 'Pal'istanians", was Egyptian.
> 
> Try paying attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Israeli bullshit.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
Click to expand...


The Jews keep the culture OF THE PLACE, speak the language OF THE PLACE, the religion OF THE PLACE, Jews occupied the land or parts of it for millenias, Jewish holiest sites are in Israel not in Saudi Arabia.

On the other hand Arabs speak the language of Arabia, keep the religion of Arabia (majority), their holiest sites are in Arabia, keep the culture of Arabia, identify as being members of Arabian tribes, or just as 'Syrians', there's no distinc Palestinian culture or tradition of the place that they follow.


All this makes Jews more 'Palestinian' than any Arabian or Bosnian tribe.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand rylah's logic very well.  Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc.  A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And besides that, what difference does it make?
Click to expand...


Well You're fighting occupation, this should make all the difference, only if Arab Muslim occupation and subjugation are not Your only preferred way of rulling over the many nations in the ME.


----------



## rylah

Eloy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
Click to expand...

You've got to open a book someday.

Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.

Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabs in Palestine at the time were still pursuing the the Syrian self determination, Jews were pursuing self determination in Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
Click to expand...


Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.

*The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*

Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed tha*t Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists*, giving serious cause for concern.

Yousef Tamiza, a campaign *manager for the tribal **National Alliance* list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included *an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. *Independent lists won the other three seats.



Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one ever heard of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity before 1967 when it was invented by Arafat, an Egyptian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The automatic, _ipso facto_, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:
> 
> “Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​
> You are full of Israeli shit, as usual.
Click to expand...


Was this the identitiy Arab Palestinians chose for themselves?? The British invented the Palestinian citizenship, the Arabs identified as Syrians and wanted the continuation of the Arab Muslim colonialism:

_1 .* "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria *as it has never been separated from it at any time. *We are connected with it by national*, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. "

3. "In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection."

First Palestinian Arab Congress_


----------



## Challenger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand rylah's logic very well.  Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc.  A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.
Click to expand...


Heritage? No more than 70 years to create one I suppose, language was made up in the 1890's, foods largely stolen from their native countries' cultures, flag, since October 1948, customs? based on religious rituals maybe. Palestinians had a distinct heritage for centuries until the Zionists destroyed their society and ethnically cleansed them, so modern Zionist Israeli heritage is one of myth-history, brutal aggression, oppression and disposession of a native people, nothing to be proud of.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.



Maybe, but unfortunately in the case of the Zionist so called "Jewish People" the "ethnic group" IS the myth and the "heritage" IS an invention.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zionists were pursuing a nationalist colonialst agenda disguised as a persuit of "self-determination" for a religious group composed of varying European ethnicities with only a very tenuous link to Palestine, based on their book of fables.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.
> 
> *The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*
> 
> Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed tha*t Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists*, giving serious cause for concern.
> 
> Yousef Tamiza, a campaign *manager for the tribal **National Alliance* list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included *an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. *Independent lists won the other three seats.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
Click to expand...


When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Was this the identitiy Arab Palestinians chose for themselves??



They weren't allowed to chose and those comments are taken out of context. The whole point was to prevent Britain and France carving up the region into colonies for their respective empires; the only alternative at the time, in 1919, was the unitary Arabic state the Arabic Ottoman citizens had rebelled to create and that was what they were trying to save, nothing to do with Palestinian nationalism, which some delegates were prepared to temporarily subsume for the greater good. Read the whole artice you cited First Palestinian Arab Congress


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was this the identitiy Arab Palestinians chose for themselves??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't allowed to chose and those comments are taken out of context. The whole point was to prevent Britain and France carving up the region into colonies for their respective empires; the only alternative at the time, in 1919, was the unitary Arabic state the Arabic Ottoman citizens had rebelled to create and that was what they were trying to save, nothing to do with Palestinian nationalism, which some delegates were prepared to temporarily subsume for the greater good. Read the whole artice you cited First Palestinian Arab Congress
Click to expand...


The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.

 But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.
> 
> *The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*
> 
> Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed tha*t Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists*, giving serious cause for concern.
> 
> Yousef Tamiza, a campaign *manager for the tribal **National Alliance* list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included *an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. *Independent lists won the other three seats.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism
Click to expand...


Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.



Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.



rylah said:


> But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.



Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link is very intense, not "tenuous."  And when you say "book of fables" what are you talking about?  If you're talking about the Garden of Eden, the Flood or the Tower of Babel, then that's a matter of debate between believers and unbelievers.  If you're saying that there was no Kingdom of Judea that was defeated by the Romans in 70 CE, then you're out of your mind, as history contradicts you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand rylah's logic very well.  Israelis have a very distinct heritage--language, foods, flag, anthem, customs, etc.  A Palestinian's heritage isn't distinct from 22 others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Heritage? No more than 70 years to create one I suppose, language was made up in the 1890's, foods largely stolen from their native countries' cultures, flag, since October 1948, customs? based on religious rituals maybe. Palestinians had a distinct heritage for centuries until the Zionists destroyed their society and ethnically cleansed them, so modern Zionist Israeli heritage is one of myth-history, brutal aggression, oppression and disposession of a native people, nothing to be proud of.
Click to expand...


No amount of Zionist revisionism will erase the connection between Jews and Israel.


The Hebrew language was invented in the 18th century? Give me a break. It's a semitic language based on the ancient Hebrew, a combination of Aramaic and other Canaanite languages.

Matza and an apple in honey are the Jewish national foods, Israelis don't say they invented hummus or falafel.

The Israeli flag is the Talit, a traditional Jewish veil. The national emblem is the Menorah. All these came FROM THE LAND, and was there for millenias before the Arabs colonized and dominated the area culturally.


Now what is this distinct 'Palestinian' culture You were talking about?


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link was made up by Zionists creating the myth of a Jewish "nation" in Palestine, cynically using biblical mythology and perverting the tenets of Judaism to invent a link between European converts to Judaism to a place they had no historical or ethnic ties to.
> 
> As for history, there was no "Kingdom of Judea" to be defeated by Romans, it was a Roman province in which a group of religious extremist terrorists fomented a rebellion which was crushed...a bit like IS today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.
> 
> *The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*
> 
> Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed tha*t Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists*, giving serious cause for concern.
> 
> Yousef Tamiza, a campaign *manager for the tribal **National Alliance* list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included *an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. *Independent lists won the other three seats.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
> If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?
Click to expand...

How does this relate in any way to what I posted?


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".
Click to expand...




Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".
Click to expand...


Why is it so hard to show evidence of Palestinian nationalism prior to their self identification as Syrians?


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mythology and heritage are among the main properties that define an ethnic group.
> Is there any distinct 'Palestinian heritage' that connects the Arabs to this land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.
> 
> *The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*
> 
> Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed tha*t Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists*, giving serious cause for concern.
> 
> Yousef Tamiza, a campaign *manager for the tribal **National Alliance* list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included *an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. *Independent lists won the other three seats.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
> If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does this relate in any way to what I posted?
Click to expand...


If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism, what unites them into a nation,
Arabic culture, Islam, a dominating tribe?


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> No amount of Zionist revisionism will erase the connection between Jews and Israel.



Zionist revisionism of history *created* a connection between Jewish Europeans and Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that's as funny as your Arab "tribe" propaganda. How colonists from other continents can have a stronger tie to the land than the native inhabitants is logic only Rylah can espouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.
> 
> *The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*
> 
> Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed tha*t Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists*, giving serious cause for concern.
> 
> Yousef Tamiza, a campaign *manager for the tribal **National Alliance* list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included *an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. *Independent lists won the other three seats.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
> If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does this relate in any way to what I posted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism, what unites them into a nation,
> Arabic culture, Islam, a dominating tribe?
Click to expand...

They were all citizen of Palestine.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,



I never said that.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No amount of Zionist revisionism will erase the connection between Jews and Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist revisionism of history *created* a connection between Jewish Europeans and Palestine.
Click to expand...


No.
You're just deflecting from discussing Palestinian identity.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
Click to expand...


Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
Click to expand...

What is your point?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tribalism is still alive and kicking in the Palestinian society, or the Arab society in general.
> 
> *The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism*
> 
> Summary-The Palestinian local elections held May 13 showed tha*t Palestinians voted for tribal and independent lists instead of political lists*, giving serious cause for concern.
> 
> Yousef Tamiza, a campaign *manager for the tribal **National Alliance* list in the town of Idna in Hebron, in the south of the West Bank, told Al-Monitor that the National Alliance list won 10 out of 13 seats, and included *an alliance of seven families in the city of Hebron, namely the Tamiza, Islimiya, Abu Jahisha, Khalawah, Abu Zeltah, Awad and Abu Asaad families. *Independent lists won the other three seats.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: The resurgence of Palestinian tribalism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
> If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does this relate in any way to what I posted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism, what unites them into a nation,
> Arabic culture, Islam, a dominating tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were all citizen of Palestine.
Click to expand...


An identity forced on them by the powers they are still fighting today.
Britain decided to give them this identity, it didn't come from them.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the will of the people is thwarted time after time by a corrupt, collaborationist regime, and the only real opposition to it boycotts the "democratic" process that just confirms the status quo whoever wins, is it any surprise that people turn to those they trust most; their extended family. Tribalism isn't only resurging in Palestine, only it's called something else when talking about so called more advanced societies; there it's called Nationalism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tribes by their nature need a higher authority/structure to fuse them into a nation. This was the goal of Islam - to unite the many tribes of Arabia.
> If Arab nationalism is not Islam, then tell me who is the ruling tribe or clan, who is the higher authority for the Palestinian Arabs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does this relate in any way to what I posted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism, what unites them into a nation,
> Arabic culture, Islam, a dominating tribe?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were all citizen of Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An identity forced on them by the powers they are still fighting today.
> Britain decided to give them this identity, it didn't come from them.
Click to expand...

The same for Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan.

So? I never hear you question their identity.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
Click to expand...


My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard to show evidence of Palestinian nationalism prior to their self identification as Syrians?
Click to expand...

It's not, you just have to read the books I mentioned, and they didn't; as I said, "Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited."


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No amount of Zionist revisionism will erase the connection between Jews and Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zionist revisionism of history *created* a connection between Jewish Europeans and Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.
> You're just deflecting from discussing Palestinian identity.
Click to expand...

I was just responding to your deflection.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
Click to expand...

They did not self identify as Arab Syrians, read your own article.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did not self identify as Arab Syrians, read your own article.
Click to expand...


Sure they did.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
> Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".
Click to expand...


Palestinian society was destroyed by the Zionist creation of their "state", most Palestinian archives and records were either destroyed or are suppressed by the Zionist regime, all that's left are memories, (oral history), photographs and some newsreels which have been posted elsewhere. Archaeology in Zionist Israel has also been politicised to the extent that artifacts not relating to Judaism have been destroyed, dismissed or suppressed, so it's not that simple.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did not self identify as Arab Syrians, read your own article.
Click to expand...


1 .* We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. *

2. The Declaration made by M. Pichon, Minister for Foreig Affairs for France, that* France had rights in our country *based on the desires and aspirations of the inhabitants has no foundation and we reject all the declarations made in his speech of 29th December 1918, as our wishes and aspirations are only in Arab unity and complete independence.

3. In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection.

4. In accordance with the rule laid down by President Wilson and approved by most of the Great Powers we consider that every promise or treaty concluded in respect of our country and its future as null and void and reject the same.

5. The Government of the country will apply for help to its friend Great Britain in case of need for the improvement and development of the country provided that this will not affect its independence and Arab unity in any way and will keep good relations with the Allied Powers. 78

*The Palestine Conference also decided to send a delegation to Damascus 'to inform Arab patriots there of the decision to call Palestine Southern Syria and unite it with Northern Syria '.79 *

Another delegation of three was named 'as possible representatives to go to Paris'. 80

The decisions of the Conference were presented in writing to the British, French, Italian and Spanish representatives in Jerusalem. It was apparent that the young elements, with the help of Palestinian pressure from outside, prevailed on the Conference. Before adjourning, the Conference agreed to meet again at Nablus three months hence, but failed to elect an executive Committee to the Conference.

First Palestinian Arab Congress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stop lying


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> The declaration clearly shows that the Arabs initially identified as Syrians, and declared the land a part of Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited.
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> But show me this Palestinian nationalism they 'abandoned'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read Rashid Khalidi's "Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness" or Haim Gerber's "Palestine and other territorial concepts in the 17th century".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why is it so hard to show evidence of Palestinian nationalism prior to their self identification as Syrians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not, you just have to read the books I mentioned, and they didn't; as I said, "Only when taken out of context. Read the whole article you cited."
Click to expand...


In other words You have nothing.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
> Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian society was destroyed by the Zionist creation of their "state", most Palestinian archives and records were either destroyed or are suppressed by the Zionist regime, all that's left are memories, (oral history), photographs and some newsreels which have been posted elsewhere. Archaeology in Zionist Israel has also been politicised to the extent that artifacts not relating to Judaism have been destroyed, dismissed or suppressed, so it's not that simple.
Click to expand...


Still nothing.... just the usual "it's all Israel's fault" 

I think it's becoming clearer where the root of this 'Palestinian' culture and identity sprouts from


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
> Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".
Click to expand...

So? What difference does it make?


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> In other words You have nothing.





rylah said:


> Still nothing.... just the usual "it's all Israel's fault"



On the contrary. If you Google "Palestinian Culture" you'll get around 28.3 million results. I have neither the time nor the inclination to fuel your stawmen assertions as you've clearly not read your own article, nor I suspect, will you read the two works I mentioned.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
> Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian society was destroyed by the Zionist creation of their "state", most Palestinian archives and records were either destroyed or are suppressed by the Zionist regime, all that's left are memories, (oral history), photographs and some newsreels which have been posted elsewhere. Archaeology in Zionist Israel has also been politicised to the extent that artifacts not relating to Judaism have been destroyed, dismissed or suppressed, so it's not that simple.
Click to expand...


On the contrary, the Muslim Wakf on the Temple Mount have done all they could to dispose of important archaeological artifacts in that area.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words You have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing.... just the usual "it's all Israel's fault"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the contrary. If you Google "Palestinian Culture" you'll get around 28.3 million results. I have neither the time nor the inclination to fuel your stawmen assertions as you've clearly not read your own article, nor I suspect, will you read the two works I mentioned.
Click to expand...


On the contrary, you can Google "space aliens" and get millions of hits. So what? 

You can find outlandish claims for all sorts of nonsense.

Just ask the space alien guy:

space aliens guy with big hair - Google Search


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Arab tribalism is Palestinian nationalism,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
> Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So? What difference does it make?
Click to expand...


It shows that 'Palestinian nationalism' is a recent new name for Arab Muslim colonialism.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words You have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing.... just the usual "it's all Israel's fault"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the contrary. If you Google "Palestinian Culture" you'll get around 28.3 million results. I have neither the time nor the inclination to fuel your stawmen assertions as you've clearly not read your own article, nor I suspect, will you read the two works I mentioned.
Click to expand...


You joined a conversation about 'Palestinian' with Your usual deflections about Jews.....why Jews have to reappear each time we talk about Palestinians and their identity?

But then, when we asked  You about Palestinians and their distinct culture...all of a sudden You have no time


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
> Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So? What difference does it make?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It shows that 'Palestinian nationalism' is a recent new name for Arab Muslim colonialism.
Click to expand...

So? What difference does it make?


----------



## Eloy

rylah said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
Click to expand...

No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.


----------



## June 7 2017

Eloy said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
Click to expand...

The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.


----------



## Eloy

June 7 2017 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
Click to expand...

There are no gods.


----------



## June 7 2017

Eloy said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no gods.
Click to expand...

There is one God and it bothers me not that you disagree.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Eloy said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and there still aren't any. There is no Israeli nationality.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and there still aren't any. There is no Israeli nationality.
Click to expand...



Hmm.. again Jews reappear when talking about Palestinian identity. Interesting phenomenon.


----------



## P F Tinmore

June 7 2017 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it wasn't Y'hoodlihm?


----------



## rylah

Eloy said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
Click to expand...


You're so funny and naive. But  I get it - difficulties in translation.

There're no 2 separate words for 'Israelite and Israeli' in the Hebrew language. It's just ישראלי
As there're no 3 separate  words for 'Jew', 'Judean' or 'Jewish'. 
It's just יהודי

Actually Jews in Europe were referred to as_ 'Palestinians among us' _decades before Syrian Arabs identified as Palestinians.
But Jews were of course referred most as Jews.


----------



## rylah

I don't get it, why does team Palestine deflect to Jews and their heritage when discussing Palestinian identity.
Are they suggesting something?

I merely wanted to see some distinct 'Palestinian' culture


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're so funny and naive. But  I get it - difficulties in translation.
> 
> There're no 2 separate words for 'Israelite and Israeli' in the Hebrew language. It's just ישראלי
> As there're no 3 separate  words for 'Jew', 'Judean' or 'Jewish'.
> It's just יהודי
> 
> Actually Jews in Europe were referred to as_ 'Palestinians among us' _decades before Syrian Arabs identified as Palestinians.
> But Jews were of course referred most as Jews.
Click to expand...


Why do constantly post falsehoods? You are an incredible propagandist.  You just make things up as you go along.

The Palestinians (then Christians) were referred to as Palestinians centuries before Jews were referred to as such.

Eusebio of Cesarea wrote the manuscript "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) in 411 AD.

Il _De martyribus Palestinae_ di Eusebio di Cesarea è un opuscolo apologetico che racconta i martirii subiti da alcuni cristiani durante la persecuzione di Diocleziano1. Se ne conservano oggi due redazioni di diversa lunghezza, entrambe d’autore. Quella più breve è inserita da alcuni manoscritti all’interno dei libri VIII o X dell’_Historia Ecclesiastica_, mentre la redazione lunga è testimoniata da alcuni frammenti tramandati in collezioni agiografiche e dalla traduzione in siriaco conservata in un manoscritto datato al 411. Nonostante nessuna delle due redazioni, per quanto ne sappiamo, sia mai stata tradotta interamente in latino prima dell’età moderna, degli oltre quaranta martiri ivi menzionati almeno quattro erano conosciuti e venerati nell’Occidente medievale. Per ognuno di essi si conserva almeno un testo agiografico in lingua latina, che, nella maggioranza dei casi, è anonimo e di origine ignota4. Si tratta delle _Passiones_ di san Procopio di Cesarea (_BHL_ 6949-6951) di san Pietro Balsamo (_BHL_ 6702)6, di san Romano d’Antiochia (_BHL_ 7297-7304) e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea (_BHL_ 8090-8091). Saranno presentati in questo contributo i primi risultati di un’indagine comparativa sull’origine e la prima circolazione delle _Passiones_ di san Romano d'Antiochia e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea, con l’auspicio di proseguire la ricerca prendendo in considerazione i dossier agiografici di san Procopio di Cesarea e di san Pietro Balsamo.

Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and there still aren't any. There is no Israeli nationality.
Click to expand...


Of course there is.  Just like the American nationality started in 1776, the Israeli nationality started in 1948.  And the South Sudanese nationality started only a couple of years ago.


----------



## P F Tinmore

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and there still aren't any. There is no Israeli nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there is.  Just like the American nationality started in 1776, the Israeli nationality started in 1948.  And the South Sudanese nationality started only a couple of years ago.
Click to expand...

None of the ID cards in Israel have "Israeli" stated as the nationality.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're so funny and naive. But  I get it - difficulties in translation.
> 
> There're no 2 separate words for 'Israelite and Israeli' in the Hebrew language. It's just ישראלי
> As there're no 3 separate  words for 'Jew', 'Judean' or 'Jewish'.
> It's just יהודי
> 
> Actually Jews in Europe were referred to as_ 'Palestinians among us' _decades before Syrian Arabs identified as Palestinians.
> But Jews were of course referred most as Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do constantly post falsehoods? You are an incredible propagandist.  You just make things up as you go along.
> 
> The Palestinians (then Christians) were referred to as Palestinians centuries before Jews were referred to as such.
> 
> Eusebio of Cesarea wrote the manuscript "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) in 411 AD.
> 
> Il _De martyribus Palestinae_ di Eusebio di Cesarea è un opuscolo apologetico che racconta i martirii subiti da alcuni cristiani durante la persecuzione di Diocleziano1. Se ne conservano oggi due redazioni di diversa lunghezza, entrambe d’autore. Quella più breve è inserita da alcuni manoscritti all’interno dei libri VIII o X dell’_Historia Ecclesiastica_, mentre la redazione lunga è testimoniata da alcuni frammenti tramandati in collezioni agiografiche e dalla traduzione in siriaco conservata in un manoscritto datato al 411. Nonostante nessuna delle due redazioni, per quanto ne sappiamo, sia mai stata tradotta interamente in latino prima dell’età moderna, degli oltre quaranta martiri ivi menzionati almeno quattro erano conosciuti e venerati nell’Occidente medievale. Per ognuno di essi si conserva almeno un testo agiografico in lingua latina, che, nella maggioranza dei casi, è anonimo e di origine ignota4. Si tratta delle _Passiones_ di san Procopio di Cesarea (_BHL_ 6949-6951) di san Pietro Balsamo (_BHL_ 6702)6, di san Romano d’Antiochia (_BHL_ 7297-7304) e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea (_BHL_ 8090-8091). Saranno presentati in questo contributo i primi risultati di un’indagine comparativa sull’origine e la prima circolazione delle _Passiones_ di san Romano d'Antiochia e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea, con l’auspicio di proseguire la ricerca prendendo in considerazione i dossier agiografici di san Procopio di Cesarea e di san Pietro Balsamo.
> 
> Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)
Click to expand...


Although very interesting, but it refers to Palestine as a geographical region, rather than Palestinian people. 
And who calls this area 'Palestine'? A GREEK historian polemicist.

Give me something 'Palestinian'


----------



## montelatici

Don't you people know anything about Israel?  There is no Israeli nationality. It would mean that non-Jews could become Israelis.  The Jews can't have that.

*Supreme Court rejects ‘Israeli’ nationality status*
*Allowing citizens to relinquish ethnic or religious identity in the population registry would undermine Israel’s Jewishness, ruling says*

Supreme Court rejects ‘Israeli’ nationality status


----------



## June 7 2017

P F Tinmore said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you sure it wasn't Y'hoodlihm?
Click to expand...

Today that might apply on Wall Street.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're so funny and naive. But  I get it - difficulties in translation.
> 
> There're no 2 separate words for 'Israelite and Israeli' in the Hebrew language. It's just ישראלי
> As there're no 3 separate  words for 'Jew', 'Judean' or 'Jewish'.
> It's just יהודי
> 
> Actually Jews in Europe were referred to as_ 'Palestinians among us' _decades before Syrian Arabs identified as Palestinians.
> But Jews were of course referred most as Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do constantly post falsehoods? You are an incredible propagandist.  You just make things up as you go along.
> 
> The Palestinians (then Christians) were referred to as Palestinians centuries before Jews were referred to as such.
> 
> Eusebio of Cesarea wrote the manuscript "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) in 411 AD.
> 
> Il _De martyribus Palestinae_ di Eusebio di Cesarea è un opuscolo apologetico che racconta i martirii subiti da alcuni cristiani durante la persecuzione di Diocleziano1. Se ne conservano oggi due redazioni di diversa lunghezza, entrambe d’autore. Quella più breve è inserita da alcuni manoscritti all’interno dei libri VIII o X dell’_Historia Ecclesiastica_, mentre la redazione lunga è testimoniata da alcuni frammenti tramandati in collezioni agiografiche e dalla traduzione in siriaco conservata in un manoscritto datato al 411. Nonostante nessuna delle due redazioni, per quanto ne sappiamo, sia mai stata tradotta interamente in latino prima dell’età moderna, degli oltre quaranta martiri ivi menzionati almeno quattro erano conosciuti e venerati nell’Occidente medievale. Per ognuno di essi si conserva almeno un testo agiografico in lingua latina, che, nella maggioranza dei casi, è anonimo e di origine ignota4. Si tratta delle _Passiones_ di san Procopio di Cesarea (_BHL_ 6949-6951) di san Pietro Balsamo (_BHL_ 6702)6, di san Romano d’Antiochia (_BHL_ 7297-7304) e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea (_BHL_ 8090-8091). Saranno presentati in questo contributo i primi risultati di un’indagine comparativa sull’origine e la prima circolazione delle _Passiones_ di san Romano d'Antiochia e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea, con l’auspicio di proseguire la ricerca prendendo in considerazione i dossier agiografici di san Procopio di Cesarea e di san Pietro Balsamo.
> 
> Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Although very interesting, but it refers to Palestine as a geographical region, rather than Palestinian people.
> And who calls this area 'Palestine'? A GREEK historian polemicist.
> 
> Give me something 'Palestinian'
Click to expand...


The word "_Palestinae" _means Palestinian you idiot. You've been found out as a lying huckster. No amount of clown dancing will change that. 

Eusebio of Cesarea was born in Palestine in Cesarea and was a Roman citizen. He was a Palestinian long before any Jew was called a Palestinian.  Give it up propagandist.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and there still aren't any. There is no Israeli nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there is.  Just like the American nationality started in 1776, the Israeli nationality started in 1948.  And the South Sudanese nationality started only a couple of years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of the ID cards in Israel have "Israeli" stated as the nationality.
Click to expand...


Yeah there's no nationality in the Israeli ID. It's just '*****'.
You can be a Palestinian, Arab Israeli, Jew,Jewish, Judean, Arab, Muslim...identify as You want.

Bureaucracy is not what makes Jews - 'Israelis'.
It's given in the word itself. Jew= of Israel


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, and there still aren't any. There is no Israeli nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there is.  Just like the American nationality started in 1776, the Israeli nationality started in 1948.  And the South Sudanese nationality started only a couple of years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of the ID cards in Israel have "Israeli" stated as the nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah there's no nationality in the Israeli ID. It's just '*****'.
> You can be a Palestinian, Arab Israeli, Jew,Jewish, Judean, Arab, Muslim...identify as You want.
> 
> Bureaucracy is not what makes Jews - 'Israelis'.
> It's given in the word itself. Jew= of Israel
Click to expand...


Yeah, right.  You people are so brainwashed that you can't understand how racist (in the broad definition) Israeli is.  It's no different than Apartheid South Africa.

"Residents cannot identify themselves as Israelis in the national registry because the move could have far-reaching consequences for the country’s Jewish character, the Israeli Supreme Court wrote in documents obtained Thursday."

Supreme Court rejects ‘Israeli’ nationality status


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're so funny and naive. But  I get it - difficulties in translation.
> 
> There're no 2 separate words for 'Israelite and Israeli' in the Hebrew language. It's just ישראלי
> As there're no 3 separate  words for 'Jew', 'Judean' or 'Jewish'.
> It's just יהודי
> 
> Actually Jews in Europe were referred to as_ 'Palestinians among us' _decades before Syrian Arabs identified as Palestinians.
> But Jews were of course referred most as Jews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do constantly post falsehoods? You are an incredible propagandist.  You just make things up as you go along.
> 
> The Palestinians (then Christians) were referred to as Palestinians centuries before Jews were referred to as such.
> 
> Eusebio of Cesarea wrote the manuscript "_De martyribus Palestinae" _(Palestinian Martyrs) in 411 AD.
> 
> Il _De martyribus Palestinae_ di Eusebio di Cesarea è un opuscolo apologetico che racconta i martirii subiti da alcuni cristiani durante la persecuzione di Diocleziano1. Se ne conservano oggi due redazioni di diversa lunghezza, entrambe d’autore. Quella più breve è inserita da alcuni manoscritti all’interno dei libri VIII o X dell’_Historia Ecclesiastica_, mentre la redazione lunga è testimoniata da alcuni frammenti tramandati in collezioni agiografiche e dalla traduzione in siriaco conservata in un manoscritto datato al 411. Nonostante nessuna delle due redazioni, per quanto ne sappiamo, sia mai stata tradotta interamente in latino prima dell’età moderna, degli oltre quaranta martiri ivi menzionati almeno quattro erano conosciuti e venerati nell’Occidente medievale. Per ognuno di essi si conserva almeno un testo agiografico in lingua latina, che, nella maggioranza dei casi, è anonimo e di origine ignota4. Si tratta delle _Passiones_ di san Procopio di Cesarea (_BHL_ 6949-6951) di san Pietro Balsamo (_BHL_ 6702)6, di san Romano d’Antiochia (_BHL_ 7297-7304) e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea (_BHL_ 8090-8091). Saranno presentati in questo contributo i primi risultati di un’indagine comparativa sull’origine e la prima circolazione delle _Passiones_ di san Romano d'Antiochia e di santa Teodosia di Cesarea, con l’auspicio di proseguire la ricerca prendendo in considerazione i dossier agiografici di san Procopio di Cesarea e di san Pietro Balsamo.
> 
> Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Although very interesting, but it refers to Palestine as a geographical region, rather than Palestinian people.
> And who calls this area 'Palestine'? A GREEK historian polemicist.
> 
> Give me something 'Palestinian'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word "_Palestinae" _means Palestinian you idiot. You've been found out as a lying huckster. No amount of clown dancing will change that.
> 
> Eusebio of Cesarea was born in Palestine in Cesarea and was a Roman citizen. He was a Palestinian long before any Jew was called a Palestinian.  Give it up propagandist.
Click to expand...


I don't know Greek or Latin, but when I translated it into 4 languages it got me 'of Palestine'.
I don't know, and I obviously can't trust You,
 so I go to the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA and it writes:

_"*Concerning Eusebius's parentage we know absolutely nothing*; but the fact that he escaped with a short term of imprisonment during the terrible Diocletianpersecution, when his master Pamphilus and others of his companions suffered martyrdom, suggests that he belonged to a family of some influence and importance. His relations, later on, with the Emperor Constantine point to the same conclusion. At some time during the last twenty years of the third century he visited Antioch, where he made the acquaintance of the priest Dorotheus, and heard him expound the Scriptures (Church History VII.32). By a slip of the pen or the memory, Lightfoot (p. 309) makes Dorotheus a priest of the Church of Cæsarea. In 296 he saw for the first time the future Emperor Constantine, as he passed through Palestine in the company of Diocletian (Vit. Const., I, 19)."_

and:

_(3) *On the Martyrs of Palestine.* There are two distinct forms of this work, both drawn up by Eusebius. The longer is only extant in a Syriac version which was first edited and translated by Cureton in 1861._
_
(43) "In Praise of the Martyrs". This oration is preserved in the same manuscript as the *"Theophania" and "Martyrs of Palestine".* It was published and translated in the "Journal of Sacred Literature" by Mr. H. B. Cowper (New Series, V, pp. 403 sqq., and ibid. VI, pp. 129 sqq.).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Eusebius of Caesarea_


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, and there still aren't any. There is no Israeli nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course there is.  Just like the American nationality started in 1776, the Israeli nationality started in 1948.  And the South Sudanese nationality started only a couple of years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of the ID cards in Israel have "Israeli" stated as the nationality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah there's no nationality in the Israeli ID. It's just '*****'.
> You can be a Palestinian, Arab Israeli, Jew,Jewish, Judean, Arab, Muslim...identify as You want.
> 
> Bureaucracy is not what makes Jews - 'Israelis'.
> It's given in the word itself. Jew= of Israel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, right.  You people are so brainwashed that you can't understand how racist (in the broad definition) Israeli is.  It's no different than Apartheid South Africa.
> 
> "Residents cannot identify themselves as Israelis in the national registry because the move could have far-reaching consequences for the country’s Jewish character, the Israeli Supreme Court wrote in documents obtained Thursday."
> 
> Supreme Court rejects ‘Israeli’ nationality status
Click to expand...

Nahh.. Deflection.
We talk about 'Palestinian'


You too fixated on Jews when talking about 'Palestinian' identity?
Fascinating.


----------



## montelatici

Just put the word in Google translate you moron. Since I have studied Latin, I know the difference between Palestinae the people and Palaestina the country.

You are too much of a propagandist, a huckster.


----------



## Eloy

*Paisley* (Scotland) *SNP* hold
*West Bromwich* *Labour* hold

*Labour* 22
*Conservative* 10
*Independent* 3
*Scottish National Party* 2

Ha ha Wrong thread.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Just put the word in Google translate you moron. Since I have studied Latin, I know the difference between Palestinae the people and Palaestina the country.
> 
> You are too much of a propagandist, a huckster.



This is exactly what I did, 4 languages. Then the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA gave me the same result -* 'of Palestine'.*

But You of course always know better...


----------



## montelatici

It's the Latin language. De martyribus Palestinae means the Palestinian Martyrs.  

 Eusebio of Caesarea was called that name because he was from Caesarea.

Plus there are numerous latin texts from the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem that called the native Christians, Palestinians. What else would they be called.  Your dog won't hunt.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> It's the Latin language. De martyribus Palestinae means the Palestinian Martyrs.
> 
> Eusebio of Caesarea was called that name because he was from Caesarea.
> 
> Plus there are numerous latin texts from the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem that called the native Christians, Palestinians. What else would they be called.  Your dog won't hunt.



CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA translates it as - "of Palestine". Google translates it the same.

Weren't the original Christians Israelites?
What culture is Christianity based upon?


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> It's the Latin language. De martyribus Palestinae means the Palestinian Martyrs.
> 
> Eusebio of Caesarea was called that name because he was from Caesarea.
> 
> Plus there are numerous latin texts from the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem that called the native Christians, Palestinians. What else would they be called.  Your dog won't hunt.



Your invented "country of Pal'istan".

What a silly joke.


----------



## rylah

Let me help You a bit, see if You find anything of interest


----------



## montelatici

Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.

That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.



It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.

Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
Click to expand...


The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
Click to expand...


A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.

Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.
> 
> Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha
Click to expand...


Just facts.  The native people at the time of Christ are the ancestors of the Palestinians.  King Herod for example, was a native Edomite, a native, whose father converted to Judaism.


----------



## June 7 2017

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.
> 
> Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts.  The native people at the time of Christ are the ancestors of the Palestinians.  King Herod for example, was a native Edomite, a native, whose father converted to Judaism.
Click to expand...

Very few residents at the time had Philistine ancestors.


----------



## montelatici

June 7 2017 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.
> 
> Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts.  The native people at the time of Christ are the ancestors of the Palestinians.  King Herod for example, was a native Edomite, a native, whose father converted to Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very few residents at the time had Philistine ancestors.
Click to expand...


Who is talking about Philistines?


----------



## June 7 2017

montelatici said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.
> 
> Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts.  The native people at the time of Christ are the ancestors of the Palestinians.  King Herod for example, was a native Edomite, a native, whose father converted to Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very few residents at the time had Philistine ancestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is talking about Philistines?
Click to expand...

Palestinians after the destruction of the 2nd Temple?
Are you *trying* to look like a Jackass or does it come naturally?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.
> 
> Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts.  The native people at the time of Christ are the ancestors of the Palestinians.  King Herod for example, was a native Edomite, a native, whose father converted to Judaism.
Click to expand...


So Jews are now the ancestors of  Arabian tribes, Bosnians, Moroccans and Egyptians.

Fascinating. Monte You should write comics.


----------



## June 7 2017

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the original Christians were Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that lived in the Roman Province of Judea, renamed Palestine. The inhabitants of Palestine, when the Muslims conquered it, were Christians descendants of those people.   Many of them slowly converted to Islam, with a small stop during the rule of the Latin (Crusader) Kingdom for a little over a century.
> 
> That's the problem.  The Europeans have reduced the descendants of the native people of Palestine to an oppressed population under European colonial military occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.
> 
> Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts.  The native people at the time of Christ are the ancestors of the Palestinians.  King Herod for example, was a native Edomite, a native, whose father converted to Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Jews are now the ancestors of  Arabian tribes, Bosnians, Moroccans and Egyptians.
> 
> Fascinating.
Click to expand...

Monty is mentally disturbed.


----------



## rylah

June 7 2017 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the Jews who were reduced by European colonialists, then Arab Muslim colonialists.
> Nevertheless Jews were the people of the place and remained them.
> 
> Any  Arab or Christian connection to this land goes through Jews.
> But that said, it doesn't mean they can't live there. And their rights come from a different category.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews of Palestine converted to Christianity long before the Europeans that happened to have converted to Judaism in Europe colonized the place.  There were no Arabian colonists.  The Arabians came as rulers, the Arabian desert could not support populations.  The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are Arabs because they adopted Arabic as a language and converted to Islam.  Just like the Berbers in North Africa.  They were Christians beforehand and Jews before that.  They remain the native people. The European Jews are foreign invader/colonists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of usual anti-Zionist blabbing.
> 
> Sure al-Masris, al-Maghrebis, Yamani's, Tamimi's , Banu Abbas are all 'native Palestinian' tribes and families....sure they're also indigenous..agha
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just facts.  The native people at the time of Christ are the ancestors of the Palestinians.  King Herod for example, was a native Edomite, a native, whose father converted to Judaism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Jews are now the ancestors of  Arabian tribes, Bosnians, Moroccans and Egyptians.
> 
> Fascinating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Monty is mentally disturbed.
Click to expand...


Monty wants another crusade...


----------



## montelatici

So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?

The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancestral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.


----------



## June 7 2017

montelatici said:


> So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?
> 
> The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancstral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.


You are so fucking insane.


----------



## montelatici

June 7 2017 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?
> 
> The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancstral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so fucking insane.
Click to expand...


Facts are insane?


----------



## June 7 2017

montelatici said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?
> 
> The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancstral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so fucking insane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are insane?
Click to expand...

Try learning history in both directions.
From Beginning to Now and from Now to Beginning and your nonsense becomes impossible to maintain.
Jews have published way too much from the Mishnaic Period to let anybody get away with your revisionist lies.


----------



## montelatici

June 7 2017 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?
> 
> The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancstral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so fucking insane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are insane?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try learning history in both directions.
> From Beginning to Now and from Now to Beginning and your nonsense becomes impossible to maintain.
> Jews have published way too much from the Mishnaic Period to let anybody get away with your revisionist lies.
Click to expand...


I see, so the Zionists did not invade Palestine.  And they were not Europeans. Talk about revisionism.


----------



## June 7 2017

montelatici said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?
> 
> The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancstral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so fucking insane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are insane?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try learning history in both directions.
> From Beginning to Now and from Now to Beginning and your nonsense becomes impossible to maintain.
> Jews have published way too much from the Mishnaic Period to let anybody get away with your revisionist lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see, so the Zionists did not invade Palestine.  And they were not Europeans. Talk about revisionism.
Click to expand...

How exactly did the 19th & 2oth Zionists invade Palestine?
The Jew were by far outnumbered and underarmed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

June 7 2017 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?
> 
> The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancstral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so fucking insane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are insane?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try learning history in both directions.
> From Beginning to Now and from Now to Beginning and your nonsense becomes impossible to maintain.
> Jews have published way too much from the Mishnaic Period to let anybody get away with your revisionist lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see, so the Zionists did not invade Palestine.  And they were not Europeans. Talk about revisionism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How exactly did the 19th & 2oth Zionists invade Palestine?
> The Jew were by far outnumbered and underarmed.
Click to expand...

They mooched Britain's military.


----------



## rylah

All this talk about 'invasion of Jews', but for anyone who speaks a language native to the land, knows that "Palestine' is "the land of Philistines" or 'Pleshet'.
And a 'Philistine' (Pleshti) simply means INVADER.

Good day.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you morons believe that the Christians of Palestine.  And, Palestine was Christian before the Muslim invasion disappeared?
> 
> The people of Palestine, before the European Jew invasion, were mostly the same people as their Christian ancestors.  Who in turn were Jewish, Samaritan and Pagan converts to Christianity.  What you clowns don't seem to understand is that the Jews/Zionists that colonized Palestine, were European with little ancstral relationship to the Middle East.  But keep believing the Zionist myth.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so fucking insane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts are insane?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try learning history in both directions.
> From Beginning to Now and from Now to Beginning and your nonsense becomes impossible to maintain.
> Jews have published way too much from the Mishnaic Period to let anybody get away with your revisionist lies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see, so the Zionists did not invade Palestine.  And they were not Europeans. Talk about revisionism.
Click to expand...

You dont see and you don't understand. Your pointless "invasion" slogan is as pointless in this instance as it has been at every other time you have cut and pasted that slogan.

If want to learn the history of the area, you need to look at the Islamist invasion and that of the European Christian crusaders. 

Bleating out ignorant slogans just makes you appear.....well....ignorant.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words You have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing.... just the usual "it's all Israel's fault"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the contrary. If you Google "Palestinian Culture" you'll get around 28.3 million results. I have neither the time nor the inclination to fuel your stawmen assertions as you've clearly not read your own article, nor I suspect, will you read the two works I mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You joined a conversation about 'Palestinian' with Your usual deflections about Jews.....why Jews have to reappear each time we talk about Palestinians and their identity?
> 
> But then, when we asked  You about Palestinians and their distinct culture...all of a sudden You have no time
Click to expand...

On the contrary, I challenged your assertions about Jewish self-determination which led to your subsequent deflections about tribalism and I gave you references to sources which you chose  to ignore. Clearly you want to be spoon fed, when all you have to do is Google "Palestinian Culture" to obtain 28.3 million examples, which again, you chose to ignore. Don't ask the questions if you can't be bothered to look up the information yourself, when given more than enough sources. Spoon feed yourself, I assume you're old enough to know how to use a spoon.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> All this talk about 'invasion of Jews', but for anyone who speaks a language native to the land, knows that "Palestine' is "the land of Philistines" or 'Pleshet'.
> And a 'Philistine' (Pleshti) simply means INVADER.
> 
> Good day.


...or "traveller/nomad" or "migrant", Just like 'Hebrew' (Habiru) can mean "thug", "mercenary", "killer for hire", "outlaw", "invader", etc. 

Good day back at you.


----------



## Challenger

June 7 2017 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Palestinians 'became a people' as a result of the occupation- not in spite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
Click to expand...


No, the land was called Canaan, the "Israelites" chose to call themselves that as a sign of their devotion to their god "El"
No. Judeans were called that as derived from the tribe of Judah, which settled in the highlands which derive their name from that settlement. They may or may not have followed the monotheistic religion that eventually became known as "Judaism" the followers of which are now called "Jews"
No, the word comes from Latin and Greek transliterations from Aramaic or ancient Hebrew.

Happy to help.


----------



## Challenger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, then show me Palestinian nationalism (or any distinct culture) prior to their self identification as Arab Syrians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is simple - show me the distinct Palestinian culture.
> Should be simple for the indigenous people who "have been there since before the Hebrews came".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian society was destroyed by the Zionist creation of their "state", most Palestinian archives and records were either destroyed or are suppressed by the Zionist regime, all that's left are memories, (oral history), photographs and some newsreels which have been posted elsewhere. Archaeology in Zionist Israel has also been politicised to the extent that artifacts not relating to Judaism have been destroyed, dismissed or suppressed, so it's not that simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the contrary, the Muslim Wakf on the Temple Mount have done all they could to dispose of important archaeological artifacts in that area.
Click to expand...

...allegedly, yet the Zionist ahnenerbe seems to uneath a number of "artifacts" from rubbish piles on the site.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words You have nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still nothing.... just the usual "it's all Israel's fault"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> On the contrary. If you Google "Palestinian Culture" you'll get around 28.3 million results. I have neither the time nor the inclination to fuel your stawmen assertions as you've clearly not read your own article, nor I suspect, will you read the two works I mentioned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You joined a conversation about 'Palestinian' with Your usual deflections about Jews.....why Jews have to reappear each time we talk about Palestinians and their identity?
> 
> But then, when we asked  You about Palestinians and their distinct culture...all of a sudden You have no time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On the contrary, I challenged your assertions about Jewish self-determination which led to your subsequent deflections about tribalism and I gave you references to sources which you chose  to ignore. Clearly you want to be spoon fed, when all you have to do is Google "Palestinian Culture" to obtain 28.3 million examples, which again, you chose to ignore. Don't ask the questions if you can't be bothered to look up the information yourself, when given more than enough sources. Spoon feed yourself, I assume you're old enough to know how to use a spoon.
Click to expand...


Rap songs in Arabic is not "Palestinian distinct culture'
So 28.3 million examples of 'Palestinian culture' and You still didn't present ANYTHING  'Palestinian'.
But when You do, please show us how this distinct Palestinian culture hass been expressed through centuries.
Remember we are not looking for Arab fabrications of other cultures, we want to see something distinctly 'Palestinian' the Arabs express and identify with.


----------



## June 7 2017

Challenger said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> They became Palestinians in 1924. They were the same people before that but had a different name.
> 
> What were Native Americans called before it was America? Weren't they the same people who were there before the name change?
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the land was called Canaan, the "Israelites" chose to call themselves that as a sign of their devotion to their god "El"
> No. Judeans were called that as derived from the tribe of Judah, which settled in the highlands which derive their name from that settlement. They may or may not have followed the monotheistic religion that eventually became known as "Judaism" the followers of which are now called "Jews"
> No, the word comes from Latin and Greek transliterations from Aramaic or ancient Hebrew.
> 
> Happy to help.
Click to expand...

I presume you never studied Torah.
Happy to help.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about 'invasion of Jews', but for anyone who speaks a language native to the land, knows that "Palestine' is "the land of Philistines" or 'Pleshet'.
> And a 'Philistine' (Pleshti) simply means INVADER.
> 
> Good day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...or "traveller/nomad" or "migrant", Just like 'Hebrew' (Habiru) can mean "thug", "mercenary", "killer for hire", "outlaw", "invader", etc.
> 
> Good day back at you.
Click to expand...



Hebrew comes from the root 'E -B(v) - R' - to cross, pass, or just 'a shore'.

Migrant is of the root H-G-R. Migration is 'hagira'
Nomand is of the root N-V-D. Nomands are "navadim'
Mercenary is of the roots S-H(k)-R and H-R-V. A mercenary is "sahir herev"
Outlaw comes from the P-S-A as in 'poshea' or from the root P-R-A and H-K as in 'porea hok'

Palestine comes from the root P-L-S(h). TO INVADE. Plis(h)ti  literrally means -of invaders.

But please, You're welcome to show us Your great knowledge of the Palestinian distinct culture


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about 'invasion of Jews', but for anyone who speaks a language native to the land, knows that "Palestine' is "the land of Philistines" or 'Pleshet'.
> And a 'Philistine' (Pleshti) simply means INVADER.
> 
> Good day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...or "traveller/nomad" or "migrant", Just like 'Hebrew' (Habiru) can mean "thug", "mercenary", "killer for hire", "outlaw", "invader", etc.
> 
> Good day back at you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hebrew comes from the root 'E -B(v) - R' - to cross, pass, or just 'a shore'.
> 
> Migrant is of the root H-G-R. Migration is 'hagira'
> Nomand is of the root N-V-D. Nomands are "navadim'
> Mercenary is of the roots S-H(k)-R and H-R-V. A mercenary is "sahir herev"
> Outlaw comes from the P-S-A as in 'poshea' or from the root P-R-A and H-K as in 'porea hok'
> 
> Palestine comes from the root P-L-S(h). TO INVADE. Plis(h)ti  literrally means -of invaders.
> 
> But please, You're welcome to show us Your great knowledge of the Palestinian distinct culture
Click to expand...


Yes, Abraham was the first Hebrew because he "crossed" or "passed over" the Euphrates River to come to the Land of Canaan.  Midrashically, Abraham "crossed over" to one side of the world with his monotheism, while all the idolaters stood on the other side.  It could also be because Abraham was a descendant of Eber, of the family of Noah and Shem (hence Semite).


----------



## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about 'invasion of Jews', but for anyone who speaks a language native to the land, knows that "Palestine' is "the land of Philistines" or 'Pleshet'.
> And a 'Philistine' (Pleshti) simply means INVADER.
> 
> Good day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...or "traveller/nomad" or "migrant", Just like 'Hebrew' (Habiru) can mean "thug", "mercenary", "killer for hire", "outlaw", "invader", etc.
> 
> Good day back at you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hebrew comes from the root 'E -B(v) - R' - to cross, pass, or just 'a shore'.
> 
> Migrant is of the root H-G-R. Migration is 'hagira'
> Nomand is of the root N-V-D. Nomands are "navadim'
> Mercenary is of the roots S-H(k)-R and H-R-V. A mercenary is "sahir herev"
> Outlaw comes from the P-S-A as in 'poshea' or from the root P-R-A and H-K as in 'porea hok'
> 
> Palestine comes from the root P-L-S(h). TO INVADE. Plis(h)ti  literrally means -of invaders.
> 
> But please, You're welcome to show us Your great knowledge of the Palestinian distinct culture
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, Abraham was the first Hebrew because he "crossed" or "passed over" the Euphrates River to come to the Land of Canaan.  Midrashically, Abraham "crossed over" to one side of the world with his monotheism, while all the idolaters stood on the other side.  It could also be because Abraham was a descendant of Eber, of the family of Noah and Shem (hence Semite).
Click to expand...



Priceless. POST OF THE DAY.
Shabat Shalom ahi .


----------



## Eloy

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about 'invasion of Jews', but for anyone who speaks a language native to the land, knows that "Palestine' is "the land of Philistines" or 'Pleshet'.
> And a 'Philistine' (Pleshti) simply means INVADER.
> 
> Good day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...or "traveller/nomad" or "migrant", Just like 'Hebrew' (Habiru) can mean "thug", "mercenary", "killer for hire", "outlaw", "invader", etc.
> 
> Good day back at you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hebrew comes from the root 'E -B(v) - R' - to cross, pass, or just 'a shore'.
> 
> Migrant is of the root H-G-R. Migration is 'hagira'
> Nomand is of the root N-V-D. Nomands are "navadim'
> Mercenary is of the roots S-H(k)-R and H-R-V. A mercenary is "sahir herev"
> Outlaw comes from the P-S-A as in 'poshea' or from the root P-R-A and H-K as in 'porea hok'
> 
> Palestine comes from the root P-L-S(h). TO INVADE. Plis(h)ti  literrally means -of invaders.
> 
> But please, You're welcome to show us Your great knowledge of the Palestinian distinct culture
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, Abraham was the first Hebrew because he "crossed" or "passed over" the Euphrates River to come to the Land of Canaan.  Midrashically, Abraham "crossed over" to one side of the world with his monotheism, while all the idolaters stood on the other side.  It could also be because Abraham was a descendant of Eber, of the family of Noah and Shem (hence Semite).
Click to expand...

Sounds like something made-up.


----------



## Challenger

June 7 2017 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Similarly, no-one ever heard of Israelis before 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the land was called Canaan, the "Israelites" chose to call themselves that as a sign of their devotion to their god "El"
> No. Judeans were called that as derived from the tribe of Judah, which settled in the highlands which derive their name from that settlement. They may or may not have followed the monotheistic religion that eventually became known as "Judaism" the followers of which are now called "Jews"
> No, the word comes from Latin and Greek transliterations from Aramaic or ancient Hebrew.
> 
> Happy to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I presume you never studied Torah.
> Happy to help.
Click to expand...

Never been much into fantasy novels.


----------



## June 7 2017

Challenger said:


> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've got to open a book someday.
> 
> Jacob is Israel, the Jews are sons of Israel and have identified so for millenias. The whole world has heard of Israelis, a big portion of Your western culture is based on it.
> The knowledge of Israel-Jacob was the reason the LoN recognized the homeland of the Jews in that land. This isn't new and You cannot deny Your own culture which has a big portion of it borrowed from the Israelis.
> 
> Then again is there a Palestinian distinct culture other than the culture of the Jews?
> 
> 
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the land was called Canaan, the "Israelites" chose to call themselves that as a sign of their devotion to their god "El"
> No. Judeans were called that as derived from the tribe of Judah, which settled in the highlands which derive their name from that settlement. They may or may not have followed the monotheistic religion that eventually became known as "Judaism" the followers of which are now called "Jews"
> No, the word comes from Latin and Greek transliterations from Aramaic or ancient Hebrew.
> 
> Happy to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I presume you never studied Torah.
> Happy to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never been much into fantasy novels.
Click to expand...

And still you tried to lie your way through something of which you know nothing.


----------



## Shusha

I'm just going to leave this here.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> I'm just going to leave this here.


You are just going to leave this here why?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> I'm just going to leave this here.


Is there some legal requirement that each country have a different culture??

Link?


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> I'm just going to leave this here.



Shusa believes that Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Venezuelans, Uruguayans, Bolivians and other Latin Americans (except the Brazilians) are the same because they share the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.  For Shusa Latin America is made up of two countries Brazil and Hispania Americana.  The lengths at wich these Zionist clowns will go to delegitimize the Palestinians is hilarious.  Especially when their badly thought through memes get debunked.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusa believes that Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Venezuelans, Uruguayans, Bolivians and other Latin Americans (except the Brazilians) are the same because they share the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.  For Shusa Latin America is made up of two countries Brazil and Hispania Americana.  The lengths at wich these Zionist clowns will go to delegitimize the Palestinians is hilarious.  Especially when their badly thought through memes get debunked.
Click to expand...


So, it would appear that aside from your blustering, you agree that Pal'istanian is nothing more than a label used by Arafat to assign an invented national identity to an invented people, most of whom were Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusa believes that Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Venezuelans, Uruguayans, Bolivians and other Latin Americans (except the Brazilians) are the same because they share the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.  For Shusa Latin America is made up of two countries Brazil and Hispania Americana.  The lengths at wich these Zionist clowns will go to delegitimize the Palestinians is hilarious.  Especially when their badly thought through memes get debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, it would appear that aside from your blustering, you agree that Pal'istanian is nothing more than a label used by Arafat to assign an invented national identity to an invented people, most of whom were Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters.
Click to expand...

Not really. It was a legal designation since 1924.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusa believes that Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Venezuelans, Uruguayans, Bolivians and other Latin Americans (except the Brazilians) are the same because they share the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.  For Shusa Latin America is made up of two countries Brazil and Hispania Americana.  The lengths at wich these Zionist clowns will go to delegitimize the Palestinians is hilarious.  Especially when their badly thought through memes get debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, it would appear that aside from your blustering, you agree that Pal'istanian is nothing more than a label used by Arafat to assign an invented national identity to an invented people, most of whom were Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. It was a legal designation since 1924.
Click to expand...


Not really. You are obviously not qualified to render legal opinions.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusa believes that Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Venezuelans, Uruguayans, Bolivians and other Latin Americans (except the Brazilians) are the same because they share the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.  For Shusa Latin America is made up of two countries Brazil and Hispania Americana.  The lengths at wich these Zionist clowns will go to delegitimize the Palestinians is hilarious.  Especially when their badly thought through memes get debunked.
Click to expand...


Funny that You compare Spanish colonialism with Arab Muslim colonialism, but anyway it's apples and oranges.

What Shusha or You think is irrelevant, those who just recently self-identified as Arab Syrians, today choose to identify as 'Palestinians'.

However today the Palestinians themselves still say they're the same people as Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese, Egyptians and Saudis.
The majority of their leaders have direct connections to Arabian royalty.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some legal requirement that each country have a different culture??
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...


It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.

Palestinians have Arabian culture, speak Arabian language and are still ruled by Arabian royalty.
Abbas, Arafat, Huseini, Tamimi are all Arabian royalty.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusa believes that Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Venezuelans, Uruguayans, Bolivians and other Latin Americans (except the Brazilians) are the same because they share the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.  For Shusa Latin America is made up of two countries Brazil and Hispania Americana.  The lengths at wich these Zionist clowns will go to delegitimize the Palestinians is hilarious.  Especially when their badly thought through memes get debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, it would appear that aside from your blustering, you agree that Pal'istanian is nothing more than a label used by Arafat to assign an invented national identity to an invented people, most of whom were Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. It was a legal designation since 1924.
Click to expand...


So British colonialism becomes 'legal' when it suits Palestinians' ever-changing agenda...


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some legal requirement that each country have a different culture??
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> Palestinians have Arabian culture, speak Arabian language and are still ruled by Arabian royalty.
> Abbas, Arafat, Huseini are all Arabian royalty.
Click to expand...


So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one. 

So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez. 







You are hilarious.

House of Enriquez.

House of Enríquez - Wikipedia


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some legal requirement that each country have a different culture??
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> Palestinians have Arabian culture, speak Arabian language and are still ruled by Arabian royalty.
> Abbas, Arafat, Huseini are all Arabian royalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one.
> 
> So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez.
> 
> View attachment 132139
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.
> 
> House of Enriquez.
> 
> House of Enríquez - Wikipedia
Click to expand...


No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some legal requirement that each country have a different culture??
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> Palestinians have Arabian culture, speak Arabian language and are still ruled by Arabian royalty.
> Abbas, Arafat, Huseini are all Arabian royalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one.
> 
> So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez.
> 
> View attachment 132139
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.
> 
> House of Enriquez.
> 
> House of Enríquez - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.
Click to expand...


The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once. 

The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.

The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some legal requirement that each country have a different culture??
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> Palestinians have Arabian culture, speak Arabian language and are still ruled by Arabian royalty.
> Abbas, Arafat, Huseini are all Arabian royalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one.
> 
> So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez.
> 
> View attachment 132139
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.
> 
> House of Enriquez.
> 
> House of Enríquez - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once.
> 
> The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.
> 
> The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.
Click to expand...


That's of course a lie that has been debunked here on many levels.
Just one of many example:

Tarabin has an advantage over other tribes like Byada and Ababda tribes through its ownership of land in northern, southern and middle Sinai.
The tribe is spread throughout* Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Gaza *and is involved in smuggling weapons and aid to fellow tribe members in Gaza, Hussein said.
“A Bedouin's first allegiance is for his tribe then comes the country in second place,” he added.
Metropolitan Bedouins: Tarabin tribe living in Cairo between urbanization and Bedouin traditions


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there some legal requirement that each country have a different culture??
> 
> Link?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> Palestinians have Arabian culture, speak Arabian language and are still ruled by Arabian royalty.
> Abbas, Arafat, Huseini are all Arabian royalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one.
> 
> So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez.
> 
> View attachment 132139
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.
> 
> House of Enriquez.
> 
> House of Enríquez - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once.
> 
> The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.
> 
> The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's of course a lie that has been debunked here on many levels.
> Just one of many example:
> 
> Tarabin has an advantage over other tribes like Byada and Ababda tribes through its ownership of land in northern, southern and middle Sinai.
> The tribe is spread throughout* Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Gaza *and is involved in smuggling weapons and aid to fellow tribe members in Gaza, Hussein said.
> “A Bedouin's first allegiance is for his tribe then comes the country in second place,” he added.
> Metropolitan Bedouins: Tarabin tribe living in Cairo between urbanization and Bedouin traditions
Click to expand...


Nothing I have stated was debunked. Fact can't be debunked.  Your attempts to delegitimize the Palestinians through propaganda is futile.  Because I have the facts.

But, your post is a non-sequitur as usual.  What do Bedouins have  to do with Palestinians, most were Hashemite followers and live in Jorda. Their population was not even considered for Palestine partition purposes.   Had they been considered as part of the Palestinian population, the non-Jews would have out numbered the Jews in the Jew partition as well as in the non-Jewish partition.


----------



## Shusha

rylah said:


> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.



This needs to be emphasized.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This needs to be emphasized.
Click to expand...


That is ridiculous and would not apply to the European Jews anyway, who were culturally European.  

A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> Palestinians have Arabian culture, speak Arabian language and are still ruled by Arabian royalty.
> Abbas, Arafat, Huseini are all Arabian royalty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one.
> 
> So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez.
> 
> View attachment 132139
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.
> 
> House of Enriquez.
> 
> House of Enríquez - Wikipedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once.
> 
> The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.
> 
> The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's of course a lie that has been debunked here on many levels.
> Just one of many example:
> 
> Tarabin has an advantage over other tribes like Byada and Ababda tribes through its ownership of land in northern, southern and middle Sinai.
> The tribe is spread throughout* Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Gaza *and is involved in smuggling weapons and aid to fellow tribe members in Gaza, Hussein said.
> “A Bedouin's first allegiance is for his tribe then comes the country in second place,” he added.
> Metropolitan Bedouins: Tarabin tribe living in Cairo between urbanization and Bedouin traditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing I have stated was debunked. Fact can't be debunked.  Your attempts to delegitimize the Palestinians through propaganda is futile.  Because I have the facts.
> 
> But, your post is a non-sequitur as usual.  What do Bedouins have  to do with Palestinians, most were Hashemite followers and live in Jorda. Their population was not even considered for Palestine partition purposes.   Had they been considered as part of the Palestinian population, the non-Jews would have out numbered the Jews in the Jew partition as well as in the non-Jewish partition.
Click to expand...


You must be thinking these people of Hebron are indigenous to the land:
*




(Ahed Tamimi- the Palestinian poster child)


The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.

Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi 

Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine. 


Dynasties*

*The Aghlabid dynasty*
*The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)*
*The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).*

Her relatives must be "indigenous Palestinians" too:

The Emir of Qatar of the Al Thani dynasty of the Banu Tamim tribe.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This needs to be emphasized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous and would not apply to the European Jews anyway, who were culturally European.
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
Click to expand...


You simply don't know what 'indigenous' means. Colonizers don't become indigenous, especially when after centuries of residence they don't show any properties of indigenousness.

However it doesn't mean they don't have a right to live in the land, it's just that their rights come from a different category.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one.
> 
> So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez.
> 
> View attachment 132139
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.
> 
> House of Enriquez.
> 
> House of Enríquez - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once.
> 
> The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.
> 
> The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's of course a lie that has been debunked here on many levels.
> Just one of many example:
> 
> Tarabin has an advantage over other tribes like Byada and Ababda tribes through its ownership of land in northern, southern and middle Sinai.
> The tribe is spread throughout* Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Gaza *and is involved in smuggling weapons and aid to fellow tribe members in Gaza, Hussein said.
> “A Bedouin's first allegiance is for his tribe then comes the country in second place,” he added.
> Metropolitan Bedouins: Tarabin tribe living in Cairo between urbanization and Bedouin traditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing I have stated was debunked. Fact can't be debunked.  Your attempts to delegitimize the Palestinians through propaganda is futile.  Because I have the facts.
> 
> But, your post is a non-sequitur as usual.  What do Bedouins have  to do with Palestinians, most were Hashemite followers and live in Jorda. Their population was not even considered for Palestine partition purposes.   Had they been considered as part of the Palestinian population, the non-Jews would have out numbered the Jews in the Jew partition as well as in the non-Jewish partition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be thinking these people of Hebron are indigenous to the land:
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Ahed Tamimi- the Palestinian poster child)
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties*
> 
> *The Aghlabid dynasty*
> *The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)*
> *The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).*
> 
> Her relatives must be "indigenous Palestinians" too:
> 
> The Emir of Qatar of the Al Thani dynasty of the Banu Tamim tribe.
Click to expand...


The theater of the absurd from Rylah. Now, an Indio from Colombia with the last name of Pizarro, is a descendent of the conquistadores.  

You are making a fool of yourself.  You could have picked someone other than  a blonde, blue eyed Palestinian to be descendant of an Arabian. I was stationed in Saudi Arabia while in the Army, I never saw one blonde Saudi. LOL


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once.
> 
> The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.
> 
> The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's of course a lie that has been debunked here on many levels.
> Just one of many example:
> 
> Tarabin has an advantage over other tribes like Byada and Ababda tribes through its ownership of land in northern, southern and middle Sinai.
> The tribe is spread throughout* Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Gaza *and is involved in smuggling weapons and aid to fellow tribe members in Gaza, Hussein said.
> “A Bedouin's first allegiance is for his tribe then comes the country in second place,” he added.
> Metropolitan Bedouins: Tarabin tribe living in Cairo between urbanization and Bedouin traditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing I have stated was debunked. Fact can't be debunked.  Your attempts to delegitimize the Palestinians through propaganda is futile.  Because I have the facts.
> 
> But, your post is a non-sequitur as usual.  What do Bedouins have  to do with Palestinians, most were Hashemite followers and live in Jorda. Their population was not even considered for Palestine partition purposes.   Had they been considered as part of the Palestinian population, the non-Jews would have out numbered the Jews in the Jew partition as well as in the non-Jewish partition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be thinking these people of Hebron are indigenous to the land:
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Ahed Tamimi- the Palestinian poster child)
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties*
> 
> *The Aghlabid dynasty*
> *The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)*
> *The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).*
> 
> Her relatives must be "indigenous Palestinians" too:
> 
> The Emir of Qatar of the Al Thani dynasty of the Banu Tamim tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The theater of the absurd from Rylah. Now, an Indio from Colombia with the last name of Pizarro, is a descendent of the conquistadores.
> 
> You are making a fool of yourself.  You could have picked someone other than  a blonde, blue eyed Palestinian to be descendant of an Arabian. I was stationed in Saudi Arabia while in the Army, I never saw one blonde Saudi. LOL
Click to expand...


Nice bait and switch...however Abbas, al-Husayni, al-Masri, Yamani, al-Maghrebi, Tamimi...and Your beloved Hashemite Arafat never became indigenous. They're simply Arabians with close ties to Arabian royalty.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This needs to be emphasized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous and would not apply to the European Jews anyway, who were culturally European.
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You simply don't know what 'indigenous' means. Colonizers don't become indigenous, especially when after centuries of residence they don't show any properties of indigenousness.
Click to expand...


You are simply making things up. The Muslims and Christians of Palestine were Christians, indigenous to Palestine,  when they were conquered by the Arabs.  The Arab armies conquered, left Muslim administrators and went on and conquered other lands.  They had no people to do the settler colonization thing.   Try to read something other than bullshit propaganda. Maybe something from Oxford.

"Muslim commanders left the social structure of the conquered territories almost intact by appointing local Muslim governors and relying on local administrative and financial systems. The populations were not converted _en masse_ but in time the frequency of conversions increased. The reasons for embracing Islam ranged from a desire to come closer to the new masters and share their privileges, to an acknowledgment of, or belief in, the tolerant and syncretistic nature of the new faith. Tolerance, however, could only be granted to the _Ahl al Kitab_ (‘the people of the Book’) that is, those people whom the Qur'an cites as having received revealed scripture: Jews, Christians and the ‘Sabians’. These could not, in principle, be forcibly converted (as could polytheists and disbelievers), and were guaranteed protection and religious autonomy against the payment of a special tax."

Spread of Islam, The - Oxford Islamic Studies Online


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once.
> 
> The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.
> 
> The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's of course a lie that has been debunked here on many levels.
> Just one of many example:
> 
> Tarabin has an advantage over other tribes like Byada and Ababda tribes through its ownership of land in northern, southern and middle Sinai.
> The tribe is spread throughout* Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Gaza *and is involved in smuggling weapons and aid to fellow tribe members in Gaza, Hussein said.
> “A Bedouin's first allegiance is for his tribe then comes the country in second place,” he added.
> Metropolitan Bedouins: Tarabin tribe living in Cairo between urbanization and Bedouin traditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing I have stated was debunked. Fact can't be debunked.  Your attempts to delegitimize the Palestinians through propaganda is futile.  Because I have the facts.
> 
> But, your post is a non-sequitur as usual.  What do Bedouins have  to do with Palestinians, most were Hashemite followers and live in Jorda. Their population was not even considered for Palestine partition purposes.   Had they been considered as part of the Palestinian population, the non-Jews would have out numbered the Jews in the Jew partition as well as in the non-Jewish partition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be thinking these people of Hebron are indigenous to the land:
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Ahed Tamimi- the Palestinian poster child)
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties*
> 
> *The Aghlabid dynasty*
> *The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)*
> *The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).*
> 
> Her relatives must be "indigenous Palestinians" too:
> 
> The Emir of Qatar of the Al Thani dynasty of the Banu Tamim tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The theater of the absurd from Rylah. Now, an Indio from Colombia with the last name of Pizarro, is a descendent of the conquistadores.
> 
> You are making a fool of yourself.  You could have picked someone other than  a blonde, blue eyed Palestinian to be descendant of an Arabian. I was stationed in Saudi Arabia while in the Army, I never saw one blonde Saudi. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice bait and switch...however Abbas, al-Husayni, al-Masri, Yamani, al-Maghrebi, Tamimi...and Your beloved Hashemite Arafat never became indigenous. They're simply Arabians with close ties to Arabian royalty.
Click to expand...


Palestinians with Arabian names have as close a tie to Arabian "royalty" as a Mexican of Aztec origin named Jimenez has to the Spanish Jimenez noble family.

Your dog just won't hunt, give it up.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Rylah*
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> *Arabians* and Africans *didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization*.





> Originally posted by *Rylah*
> You simply don't know what 'indigenous' means. *Colonizers don't become indigenous*, especially if they after centuries of residence don't show any properties of indigenousness.



*Reverend Dr. James William Parkes

1896 – 1981










*​


> English theologian and historian.
> 
> Parkes collaborated with many Jewish organizations and was president of the Jewish Historical Society of England (1949–51).
> 
> James Parkes was one of the most sincere, outspoken, and influential Christian philo-semites of 20th century Britain.
> 
> Parkes, James William°



Yes, you read it right... The source above is indeed, the Jewish Virtual Library, that strongly pro-Israel, pro-Jew website.



> According to one historian, Parkes "*devoted his whole life to fighting anti-Judaism and promoting tolerance of Jews*".[2] In that endeavor, for twenty years *his was a lone clerical voice against the missionizing of Jews*, and he would be the driving force in the founding of the Council of Christians and Jews.
> 
> James Parkes (priest) - Wikipedia


----------



## José

> According to the historian James William Parkes, during the 1st century after the Arab conquest (640–740), the caliph and governors of Syria and the Holy Land ruled entirely over Christian and Jewish subjects. *He further states that apart from the Bedouin in the earliest days, the only Arabs west of the Jordan were the garrisons.*[5]
> 
> Islamization of Palestine - Wikipedia


----------



## José

*José punishing his little son Rylah, for having tried to fool the entire Board lying about a mass arab immigration wave to Palestine that never existed in the real world, only in zionist propaganda.
*
*



*​


----------



## rylah

One of Mntelatici's links:

44% of Lebanese are Arabians 

Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation


----------



## rylah

Bani Tamim settled after the Islamic conquests in Egypt and most of them spread in Upper Egypt. There are famous villages of Bani Tamim, such as Tal Bani Tamim, Shebin El Qanater Center, Qalubia Directorate in Lower Egypt, and Beni Mer village in Upper Egypt 

معلومات  عن قبيلة بـني تـميم


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation



And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
Click to expand...


It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Bani Tamim settled after the Islamic conquests in Egypt and most of them spread in Upper Egypt. There are famous villages of Bani Tamim, such as Tal Bani Tamim, Shebin El Qanater Center, Qalubia Directorate in Lower Egypt, and Beni Mer village in Upper Egypt
> 
> معلومات  عن قبيلة بـني تـميم



The absurdity, why do you insist on making a fool of yourself.  People did not assume surnames until around the 13th century anyway FFS.  Plus now you are using Egypt, whose people have less than 17% Arabian DNA. You are just making a fool of yourself.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bani Tamim settled after the Islamic conquests in Egypt and most of them spread in Upper Egypt. There are famous villages of Bani Tamim, such as Tal Bani Tamim, Shebin El Qanater Center, Qalubia Directorate in Lower Egypt, and Beni Mer village in Upper Egypt
> 
> معلومات  عن قبيلة بـني تـميم
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The absurdity, why do you insist on making a fool of yourself.  People did not assume surnames until around the 13th centiry anyway FFS.  Plus now you are using Egypt, whose people have less than 7% Arabian DNA. You are just making a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...

You really should choose Your lies more carefully, it's according to Your link:

Egyptians 17% Arabian DNA, Lebanese 44%.
Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
Click to expand...


----------



## rylah

Absurdity is to claim that Palestine is an isolated land, where nobody passed and people never changed aka "THEY"RE ALL CANAANITES'

Just think of the many conquests, from Mongols, Romans, Greeks to Arabians.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to leave this here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusa believes that Colombians, Argentines, Chileans, Venezuelans, Uruguayans, Bolivians and other Latin Americans (except the Brazilians) are the same because they share the Spanish language and Hispanic culture.  For Shusa Latin America is made up of two countries Brazil and Hispania Americana.  The lengths at wich these Zionist clowns will go to delegitimize the Palestinians is hilarious.  Especially when their badly thought through memes get debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, it would appear that aside from your blustering, you agree that Pal'istanian is nothing more than a label used by Arafat to assign an invented national identity to an invented people, most of whom were Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really. It was a legal designation since 1924.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So British colonialism becomes 'legal' when it suits Palestinians' ever-changing agenda...
Click to expand...

Not really. That was a treaty obligation that followed international law.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> Absurdity is to claim that Palestine is an isolated land, where nobody passed and people never changed aka "THEY"RE ALL CANAANITES'
> 
> Just think of the many conquests, from Mongols, Romans, Greeks to Arabians.


Who ever said that?
It is an Israeli straw man argument.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, the indios and meztizos of Latin America who speak Spanish, are Roman Catholics and have adopted the Hispanic culture cease to be indigenous.  That's a new one.
> 
> So, Jorge Enriquez, a Mexican footballer, comes from the Spanish noble house of Enriquez.
> 
> View attachment 132139
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.
> 
> House of Enriquez.
> 
> House of Enríquez - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it's apples and oranges. Aztecs, Incas etc are indigenous.
> Arabians and Africans didn't become indigenous to the land by mere colonization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Arabians arrived as rulers, they did not colonize, they didn't have the population to do so.  Deserts don't support large populations.  Try to use a little logic, for once.
> 
> The people that now speak Arabic and now are Muslims and Christians are the indigenous people of the area, their ancestors once practiced Judaism, Samaratinism, Paganism and spoke Aramiac. Greek and Latin.  Just as the descendants of the Maya, Inca, Aztecs and others now practice Roman Catholicism and speak Spanish.
> 
> The Jews that invaded Palestine came from Europe, spoke European languages and were culturally European.  There were no bagels, smoked salmon or gifilte in Palestine before the Europeans arrived.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's of course a lie that has been debunked here on many levels.
> Just one of many example:
> 
> Tarabin has an advantage over other tribes like Byada and Ababda tribes through its ownership of land in northern, southern and middle Sinai.
> The tribe is spread throughout* Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Gaza *and is involved in smuggling weapons and aid to fellow tribe members in Gaza, Hussein said.
> “A Bedouin's first allegiance is for his tribe then comes the country in second place,” he added.
> Metropolitan Bedouins: Tarabin tribe living in Cairo between urbanization and Bedouin traditions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing I have stated was debunked. Fact can't be debunked.  Your attempts to delegitimize the Palestinians through propaganda is futile.  Because I have the facts.
> 
> But, your post is a non-sequitur as usual.  What do Bedouins have  to do with Palestinians, most were Hashemite followers and live in Jorda. Their population was not even considered for Palestine partition purposes.   Had they been considered as part of the Palestinian population, the non-Jews would have out numbered the Jews in the Jew partition as well as in the non-Jewish partition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You must be thinking these people of Hebron are indigenous to the land:
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Ahed Tamimi- the Palestinian poster child)
> 
> 
> The tribe of Banu Tamim (Arabic: بـنـو تـمـيـم‎‎) or Bani Tamim (Arabic: بـني تـمـيـم‎‎) is one of the main tribes of Arabia.
> 
> Today, descendants from the tribe live in the Arabian Peninsula and neighboring countries such as Saudi
> 
> Arabia, Egypt,[1][2]Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Qatar, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Morocco, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> 
> Dynasties*
> 
> *The Aghlabid dynasty*
> *The Al Thani, ruling family of Qatar. (See House of Thani)*
> *The Al ash-Sheikh family of the Grand Muftis of the Emirate of Diriyah, then the Emirate of Najd and now modern day Saudi Arabia (Religious Dynasty).*
> 
> Her relatives must be "indigenous Palestinians" too:
> 
> The Emir of Qatar of the Al Thani dynasty of the Banu Tamim tribe.
Click to expand...

Indeed,this whole argument is ridiculous.


----------



## montelatici

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17% 

There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians. 

"12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"


DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bani Tamim settled after the Islamic conquests in Egypt and most of them spread in Upper Egypt. There are famous villages of Bani Tamim, such as Tal Bani Tamim, Shebin El Qanater Center, Qalubia Directorate in Lower Egypt, and Beni Mer village in Upper Egypt
> 
> معلومات  عن قبيلة بـني تـميم
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The absurdity, why do you insist on making a fool of yourself.  People did not assume surnames until around the 13th centiry anyway FFS.  Plus now you are using Egypt, whose people have less than 7% Arabian DNA. You are just making a fool of yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really should choose Your lies more carefully, it's according to Your link:
> 
> Egyptians 17% Arabian DNA, Lebanese 44%.
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
Click to expand...


No lies, a typo 17 vs. 7. Corrected.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absurdity is to claim that Palestine is an isolated land, where nobody passed and people never changed aka "THEY"RE ALL CANAANITES'
> 
> Just think of the many conquests, from Mongols, Romans, Greeks to Arabians.
> 
> 
> 
> Who ever said that?
> It is an Israeli straw man argument.
Click to expand...


Palestinians themselves


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
Click to expand...


Aaaand....Palestinians identify as BOTH Egyptians and Lebanese.
But also Saudis, Syrians, Yemenites...

You already know all this


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
Click to expand...


And that's just Arabian DNA...we know there're Bosnian Palestinians, Kurdish and many more.
It's simple, the area has been a crossing point between 3 continents for millenias.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that's just Arabian DNA...we know there're Bosnian Palestinians, Kurdish and many more.
> It's simple, the area has been a crossing point between 3 continents for millenias.
Click to expand...


You are hilarious.  Somehow, you are trying to convince others that people that have always lived in Palestine are less indigenous than people that colonized the place starting in the late 19th century.  

Do you not see how ridiculous that is.  Just to support a myth.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that's just Arabian DNA...we know there're Bosnian Palestinians, Kurdish and many more.
> It's simple, the area has been a crossing point between 3 continents for millenias.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.  Somehow, you are trying to convince others that people that have always lived in Palestine are less indigenous than people that colonized the place starting in the late 19th century.
> 
> Do you not see how ridiculous that is.  Just to support a myth.
Click to expand...


So...what you're trying to represent is that Arab-Islamist colonizers and European Christian Crusaders colonists / invaders, people that you claim "have always lived in Palestine", are somehow the indigenous people. 

I'm sure you dont understand that such clown dancing makes you look like a total buffoon but people are pointing at you and laughing for a reason.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that's just Arabian DNA...we know there're Bosnian Palestinians, Kurdish and many more.
> It's simple, the area has been a crossing point between 3 continents for millenias.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.  Somehow, you are trying to convince others that people that have always lived in Palestine are less indigenous than people that colonized the place starting in the late 19th century.
> 
> Do you not see how ridiculous that is.  Just to support a myth.
Click to expand...



There's no 'less' or 'more' indigenous, You're either indigenous or not. To be considered indigenous You have to show something that connects You the land through generations. Speak its' language. Have AT LEAST something in common with the land, otherwise You're just an occupier.

Prolonged occupation does not make one indigenous.
There're some Palestinians of indigenous ancestry, like the Karmi family, Kwuzeba family...but interestingly many of them cherish their Jewish origins.

They circumcise on the 8th day (unlike Arabians), they light candles on Friday evening. Have distinct Jewish tombs of their family, or simply have Mezuza's hidden. Not many though.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that's just Arabian DNA...we know there're Bosnian Palestinians, Kurdish and many more.
> It's simple, the area has been a crossing point between 3 continents for millenias.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.  Somehow, you are trying to convince others that people that have always lived in Palestine are less indigenous than people that colonized the place starting in the late 19th century.
> 
> Do you not see how ridiculous that is.  Just to support a myth.
Click to expand...


How do You know if someone "always" lived in Palestine?
Jews have lived in the land for millenias, however they diminished to small communities  through the conquests,and left a long thread of their presence and culture there that is kept to this days.
It's really hard to grasp how any BIG communities of Canaanites could remain in the same land, even less to become a majority and then totally deny their own traditions in favor of colonizing cultures.

The example of Latin America...the indigenous people are not the majority. And mind You Americas compared Palestine is a (relatively) isolated place.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a requirement that indigenous people have a culture of the place, not the culture of the colonizers. By definition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This needs to be emphasized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is ridiculous and would not apply to the European Jews anyway, who were culturally European.
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
Click to expand...


Actually, Native Americans aren't totally Americanized.  From documentaries that I've seen, many of them participate in cultural events where they put on feather headresses and do rain-dances.  But Palestinians have no distinct culture.  The first paragraphs in their charters already state that they are part of the larger Arab Nation.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
Click to expand...


Again why lie? - the link states:

Ashkenazi Jews 3% Arabian, 2% E. European.
The rest 95% Jewish diaspora.
Not 10% and 5%. But that's typical of Your compulsive Photoshop tactics.

*"This reference population is based on groups with cultural and religious affinities with Judaism in Eastern and Central Europe, as well as in the Americas. These groups trace their deep ancestry to Israel and the region of the Middle East. However, most of these groups have been living in diaspora for centuries, and in some cases millennia."

Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation

Lebanese - *are still 44% Arabians, and 14% Jews


----------



## June 7 2017

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of Mntelatici's links:
> 
> 44% of Lebanese are Arabians
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And? What does that have to do with Palestinians?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same area. One country according to Palestinians themselves.
> In Egypt there 17% Arabians, in Lebanon 44%...You do the logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tunisians have 4% Arabian DNA.  Egyptians 17%
> 
> There is no logic you haven't a clue what the percentage of Arabian DNA Palestinians have maybe 4% maybe 17%.  From the same NG study Ashkenazi Jews have 10% Arabian DNA, they are more Arabian than "Arab" Tunisians.
> 
> "12. Ashkenazi Jews (Jews who originated in Eastern Europe): 10 percent"
> 
> 
> DNA analysis proves Arabs aren't entirely Arab
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again why lie? - the link states:
> 
> Ashkenazi Jews 3% Arabian, 2% E. European.
> The rest 95% Jewish diaspora.
> Not 10% and 5%. But that's typical of Your compulsive Photoshop tactics.
> 
> *"This reference population is based on groups with cultural and religious affinities with Judaism in Eastern and Central Europe, as well as in the Americas. These groups trace their deep ancestry to Israel and the region of the Middle East. However, most of these groups have been living in diaspora for centuries, and in some cases millennia."
> 
> Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation
> 
> Lebanese - *are still 44% Arabians, and 14% Jews
Click to expand...

Monty is not knowingly lying; she is mentally ill.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> You are hilarious.  Somehow, you are trying to convince others that people that have always lived in Palestine are less indigenous ....



Actually, you are trying to convince us that people with absolutely no cultural markers of a connection to the place have "always lived" in the place.  

While at the same time claiming that the people with ALL the cultural markers of being from that place have no connection to that place.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.



The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).

Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.  

Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.


----------



## Shusha

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are hilarious.  Somehow, you are trying to convince others that people that have always lived in Palestine are less indigenous ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you are trying to convince us that people with absolutely no cultural markers of a connection to the place have "always lived" in the place.
> 
> While at the same time claiming that the people with ALL the cultural markers of being from that place have no connection to that place.
Click to expand...



Adding to this.  You are also claiming that an entire population can have its culture wiped out, eradicated and adopt another entirely different culture without being "colonized".


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).
> 
> Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.
> 
> Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> The test of indigeneity is NOT, blah, blah, blah.


Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.

However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.

I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).
> 
> Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.
> 
> Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
Click to expand...


What "core group of people". You claim "they" did many things but offer nothing more than "because I say so" as evidence.

Link?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).
> 
> Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.
> 
> Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
Click to expand...


How about indigenous right to self-determination, right to be free of discrimination, right to self defense, right to safeguard the heritage and culture?

All these rights are impossible under Arab Muslim colonialism.
Ask the Kurds, Yazidis and many other indigenous people subjugated under the Arab Muslim colonialism.
You say You're against colonialism, but actually You're all for it and for the continuation of discrimination.

However I appreciate Your honesty about the identity of 'Palestinian'


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).
> 
> Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.
> 
> Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about indigenous right to self-determination, right to be free of discrimination, right to self defense, right to safeguard the heritage and culture?
> 
> All these rights are impossible under Arab Muslim colonialism.
> Ask the Kurds, Yazidis and many other indigenous people subjugated under the Arab Muslim colonialism.
> You say You're against colonialism, but actually You're all for it and for the continuation of discrimination.
> 
> However I appreciate Your honesty about the identity of 'Palestinian'
Click to expand...

That does not address my post.

I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).
> 
> Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.
> 
> Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about indigenous right to self-determination, right to be free of discrimination, right to self defense, right to safeguard the heritage and culture?
> 
> All these rights are impossible under Arab Muslim colonialism.
> Ask the Kurds, Yazidis and many other indigenous people subjugated under the Arab Muslim colonialism.
> You say You're against colonialism, but actually You're all for it and for the continuation of discrimination.
> 
> However I appreciate Your honesty about the identity of 'Palestinian'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not address my post.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
Click to expand...


Don't You see the hypocrisy in Your statement?
You're justifying a brutal colonialism that eradicates indigenous people, while saying rights cannot be taken from people.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Native American in the U.S. that is a Christian, speaks English, eats at MacDonalds and runs a casino dressed in an Italian suit, is still indigenous to the Americas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).
> 
> Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.
> 
> Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about indigenous right to self-determination, right to be free of discrimination, right to self defense, right to safeguard the heritage and culture?
> 
> All these rights are impossible under Arab Muslim colonialism.
> Ask the Kurds, Yazidis and many other indigenous people subjugated under the Arab Muslim colonialism.
> You say You're against colonialism, but actually You're all for it and for the continuation of discrimination.
> 
> However I appreciate Your honesty about the identity of 'Palestinian'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not address my post.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You see the hypocrisy in Your statement?
> You're justifying a brutal colonialism that eradicates indigenous people, while saying rights cannot be taken from people.
Click to expand...

So, where have these eradicated indigenous people file a legitimate claim?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT whether someone has adopted the colonial culture (most do, most are forced to), but whether or not they have retained their own culture.  (Communally, not individually).
> 
> Thus, as rylah pointed out, those who retained the Jewish culture and continue to self-identify as Jewish are indigenous to the place of origin of the Jewish people (Israel, Judea, Samaria).  Those who have lost that culture are not indigenous.
> 
> Though, as rylah also pointed out, they have rights for other reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The test of indigeneity is NOT, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about indigenous right to self-determination, right to be free of discrimination, right to self defense, right to safeguard the heritage and culture?
> 
> All these rights are impossible under Arab Muslim colonialism.
> Ask the Kurds, Yazidis and many other indigenous people subjugated under the Arab Muslim colonialism.
> You say You're against colonialism, but actually You're all for it and for the continuation of discrimination.
> 
> However I appreciate Your honesty about the identity of 'Palestinian'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not address my post.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You see the hypocrisy in Your statement?
> You're justifying a brutal colonialism that eradicates indigenous people, while saying rights cannot be taken from people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, where have these eradicated indigenous people file a legitimate claim?
Click to expand...

Do You have any legitimate claim to eradicate indigenous people?


----------



## rylah

Anyway all this deflection to legal issues is irrelevant and can be interpreted in many ways.

If You have anything of substance about the definition of 'Palestinian' You're welcome.


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about indigenous right to self-determination, right to be free of discrimination, right to self defense, right to safeguard the heritage and culture?
> 
> All these rights are impossible under Arab Muslim colonialism.
> Ask the Kurds, Yazidis and many other indigenous people subjugated under the Arab Muslim colonialism.
> You say You're against colonialism, but actually You're all for it and for the continuation of discrimination.
> 
> However I appreciate Your honesty about the identity of 'Palestinian'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not address my post.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You see the hypocrisy in Your statement?
> You're justifying a brutal colonialism that eradicates indigenous people, while saying rights cannot be taken from people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, where have these eradicated indigenous people file a legitimate claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do You have any legitimate claim to eradicate indigenous people?
Click to expand...

*Do You have any legitimate claim to eradicate indigenous people?*


----------



## rylah

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even cave men probably trekked in from someplace else.
> Palestine has been invaded, occupied, and conquered many times. It was the crossroad of the world for... well...forever. Many people came and went for thousands of years.
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots. They built the cities, factories and homes. They planted the trees and picked the fruit. They worked the farms. Most have been there for hundreds of years if not more.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about indigenous right to self-determination, right to be free of discrimination, right to self defense, right to safeguard the heritage and culture?
> 
> All these rights are impossible under Arab Muslim colonialism.
> Ask the Kurds, Yazidis and many other indigenous people subjugated under the Arab Muslim colonialism.
> You say You're against colonialism, but actually You're all for it and for the continuation of discrimination.
> 
> However I appreciate Your honesty about the identity of 'Palestinian'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That does not address my post.
> 
> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't You see the hypocrisy in Your statement?
> You're justifying a brutal colonialism that eradicates indigenous people, while saying rights cannot be taken from people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, where have these eradicated indigenous people file a legitimate claim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do You have any legitimate claim to eradicate indigenous people?
Click to expand...


Of course not. But You simply don't know what 'indigenous' means.
And I'm not saying Arabs don't have a right to live in the land.

But 'Palestinian' is by definition NOT indigenous. They have longstanding occupation, and yet it's not enough to be defined as indigenous. They have to present ANY connection to this land beside colonization. They don't - they still identify as Arab Syrians or members of Arabian and N. African tribes.


----------



## louie888

Sure, no people are indigenous anywhere unless you say so.


----------



## Hollie

louie888 said:


> Sure, no people are indigenous anywhere unless you say so.



At what point did the muhammedan invaders / colonists become the indigenous people?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Hollie said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, no people are indigenous anywhere unless you say so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At what point did the muhammedan invaders / colonists become the indigenous people?
Click to expand...


1967.  Or so they say.


----------



## Hollie

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, no people are indigenous anywhere unless you say so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At what point did the muhammedan invaders / colonists become the indigenous people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1967.  Or so they say.
Click to expand...


Yep. An Egyptian managed to convince Arabs-Moslems that an invented people with an invented national identity were "Pal'istanians".


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> I don't see where anyone can claim the right to take that away from them.



Exactly.  Exactly.  

No one has the right to take away the land from either the Arab Palestinian people *nor from the Jewish people*.  The Arab Palestinian people, because they are very long-term residents and the Jewish people because they are the indigenous peoples.  

Its that simple.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.



There are two problems with this.  

1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?

2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?


The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
Click to expand...


Yes, Tinmore, it really is time for you to get over this thing already.


----------



## Shusha

Adding to my post above.  There actually IS one way to tell if people belong in that core group:  do they have the cultural markers of the pre-invasion, pre-colonized peoples?


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> Adding to my post above.  There actually IS one way to tell if people belong in that core group:  do they have the cultural markers of the pre-invasion, pre-colonized peoples?



Certainly that would exclude people that were culturally European insofar as a culture in the Middle East is concerned.  

But, it's a silly concept to be used as a basis after thousands ot years, as it would give Romanians, for example,  a claim to Rome and Italy as their ancestral homeland and the right to settle there.  They could claim that Romanian is the closest to Latin because of the retention of declension in their grammar so they are the cultural heirs of Rome.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adding to my post above.  There actually IS one way to tell if people belong in that core group:  do they have the cultural markers of the pre-invasion, pre-colonized peoples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly that would exclude people that were culturally European insofar as a culture in the Middle East is concerned.
Click to expand...

Not if they also had the cultural markers of the pre-invasion, pre-colonized people (ie were culturally Jewish).

Again, it doesn't matter what they have adopted.  It matters what they have retained.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adding to my post above.  There actually IS one way to tell if people belong in that core group:  do they have the cultural markers of the pre-invasion, pre-colonized peoples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly that would exclude people that were culturally European insofar as a culture in the Middle East is concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not if they also had the cultural markers of the pre-invasion, pre-colonized people (ie were culturally Jewish).
> 
> Again, it doesn't matter what they have adopted.  It matters what they have retained.
Click to expand...


No, Europeans that converted to Judaism do not become indigenous to a place on another continent. That's just ridiculous. A black Nigerian, who may even have some Englishman/woman as an ancestor, that converts to the Church of England does not become indigenous to England. You are so intent on sustaining a myth that you are turning logic upside down.


----------



## Shusha

No, you are the one turning logic on its head by insisting that being Jewish is only a religion and not a full culture.  Its a silly argument which defies any reasonable or objective definition of culture or ethnicity.  This is especially true when contrasted with the definition used to determine whether or not someone is culturally  "Palestinian".


----------



## Shusha

I challenge anyone to give me a definition of "culture" and we'll test the Jewish people and the Palestinian people against your definition.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
Click to expand...

There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.

For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
Click to expand...


OK, so that's 2 ppl.  Who knows where all the others came from.  And even they don't go back all the way to the Canaanites.  Lipush's family goes back to the early 1800's.  Is that Ali guy Jewish?  Many Sephardic Jews came to Israel from Spain in 1492.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?



Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?

Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?



The Susan Abulhawa who was born in Kuwait?  The Susan Abulhawa who tweets, with no apparent irony at all, "How many times must we become refugees?"


----------



## Hollie

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Susan Abulhawa who was born in Kuwait?  The Susan Abulhawa who tweets, with no apparent irony at all, "How many times must we become refugees?"
Click to expand...


Yep. That Susan Albulhawa. The Susan Abulhawa who lives in the Great Satan™ where she is protected from the very Islamic Death Cultists she so admires.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
Click to expand...


Well You chose an easy case - 2 angry Arab anti-Zionists.
Are there reasons to give the son of Hassan Nasrallah a house in Jerusalem his grandfather owned?

But that of course was an exaggeration. 

*I'd do* a thorough background investigation, check for possible solutions, and some kind of documented 'pledge of allegiance' where they Identify as Israelis, accept and recognize the sovereignty and right's of the indigenous people in that land, and swear not to participate in actions against the nation.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
Click to expand...


A Jew is a person that practices Judaism.  The home of a Chinese person that practices Judaism is  China.  The home of an Argentine person that practices Judaism is Argentina. The home of an Irish-American whether he practices Judaism or Catholicism is the United States, not Ireland. What is so difficult to understand.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> No, you are the one turning logic on its head by insisting that being Jewish is only a religion and not a full culture.  Its a silly argument which defies any reasonable or objective definition of culture or ethnicity.  This is especially true when contrasted with the definition used to determine whether or not someone is culturally  "Palestinian".



Jewish is just a religion.  A Jew who converts to Christianity ceases to be a Jew. Just as a Christian that converts to Judaism ceases to be a Christian.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are the one turning logic on its head by insisting that being Jewish is only a religion and not a full culture.  Its a silly argument which defies any reasonable or objective definition of culture or ethnicity.  This is especially true when contrasted with the definition used to determine whether or not someone is culturally  "Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish is just a religion.  A Jew who converts to Christianity ceases to be a Jew. Just as a Christian that converts to Judaism ceases to be a Christian.
Click to expand...


'Jewish' doesn't exist separately in the Hebrew language - from Jew or Judean.

It's all one word 'יהודי'


You should not tell lies about people and  their identity, if You don't know basic things.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
Click to expand...

If there is any evidence that those Europeans have any ancestors from the holy land I would like to see it.

You can't "go back" to someplace you have never been


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there is any evidence that those Europeans have any ancestors from the holy land I would like to see it.
> 
> You can't "go back" to someplace you have never been
Click to expand...


Is this some kind of blood purity test? Seriously. There's plenty. But seriously?

Why not let Jews decide for themselves?


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are the one turning logic on its head by insisting that being Jewish is only a religion and not a full culture.  Its a silly argument which defies any reasonable or objective definition of culture or ethnicity.  This is especially true when contrasted with the definition used to determine whether or not someone is culturally  "Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish is just a religion.  A Jew who converts to Christianity ceases to be a Jew. Just as a Christian that converts to Judaism ceases to be a Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'Jewish' doesn't exist separately in the Hebrew language - from Jew or Judean.
> 
> It's all one word 'יהודי'
> 
> 
> You should not tell lies about people and  their identity, if You don't know basic things.
Click to expand...


So an Inuit that converts to Judaism becomes a Jew, right.  What if he/she reconverts to Christianity, is he/she still a Jew.  You know the answer, and proves you are full of crap.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are the one turning logic on its head by insisting that being Jewish is only a religion and not a full culture.  Its a silly argument which defies any reasonable or objective definition of culture or ethnicity.  This is especially true when contrasted with the definition used to determine whether or not someone is culturally  "Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish is just a religion.  A Jew who converts to Christianity ceases to be a Jew. Just as a Christian that converts to Judaism ceases to be a Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'Jewish' doesn't exist separately in the Hebrew language - from Jew or Judean.
> 
> It's all one word 'יהודי'
> 
> 
> You should not tell lies about people and  their identity, if You don't know basic things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So an Inuit that converts to Judaism becomes a Jew, right.  What if he/she reconverts to Christianity, is he/she still a Jew.  You know the answer, and proves you are full of crap.
Click to expand...


From theological perspective too - he's a Jew. He circumcised and accepted 613 laws.
But how much generations will this family keep this baggage depends on their identity.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there is any evidence that those Europeans have any ancestors from the holy land I would like to see it.
> 
> You can't "go back" to someplace you have never been
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is this some kind of blood purity test? Seriously. There's plenty. But seriously?
> 
> Why not let Jews decide for themselves?
Click to expand...





rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are the one turning logic on its head by insisting that being Jewish is only a religion and not a full culture.  Its a silly argument which defies any reasonable or objective definition of culture or ethnicity.  This is especially true when contrasted with the definition used to determine whether or not someone is culturally  "Palestinian".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish is just a religion.  A Jew who converts to Christianity ceases to be a Jew. Just as a Christian that converts to Judaism ceases to be a Christian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'Jewish' doesn't exist separately in the Hebrew language - from Jew or Judean.
> 
> It's all one word 'יהודי'
> 
> 
> You should not tell lies about people and  their identity, if You don't know basic things.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So an Inuit that converts to Judaism becomes a Jew, right.  What if he/she reconverts to Christianity, is he/she still a Jew.  You know the answer, and proves you are full of crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From theological perspective too - he's a Jew. He circumcised and accepted 613 laws.
> But how much generations will this family keep this baggage depends on their identity.
Click to expand...


An Inuit Jew is a Jew because he/she practices Judaism.  Once he converts to Christianity or another religion he/she ceases to be a Jew. Hence, it's the religion not anything else.


----------



## rylah

That baggage means circumcision of all males, and retaining heritage.
A big part of retaining heritage was by studying the Torah. Jews from Yemen to Poland studied from the same books.* There's a difference in 1 letter. *But it doesn't  mean a person has to be religious or something. 
Ben Gurion studied in a heider, as other Jews in Babylon or Yemen.
You study heritage, Torah, Mishna, Talmud. You study LAWS and CONVERSATIONS between Jewish sages.

The grand grand nanny of King David, Ruth , was a Moabite. Israelites were not allowed to mix with Moabites, but her seed are righteous Jews.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> That baggage means circumcision of all males, and retaining heritage.
> A big part of retaining heritage was by studying the Torah. Jews from Yemen to Poland studied from the same books.* There's a difference in 1 letter. *But it doesn't  mean a person has to be religious or something.
> Ben Gurion studied in a heider, as other Jews in Babylon or Yemen.
> You study heritage, Torah, Mishna, Talmud. You study LAWS and CONVERSATIONS between Jewish sages.
> 
> The grand grand nanny of King David, Ruth , was a Moabite. Israelites were not allowed to mix with Moabites, but her seed are righteous Jews.



Stop the mumbo jumbo.  When a Jew converts to Roman Catholicism, he/she ceases to be a Jew.  He/she becomes a Roman Catholic. It's the religion that is the determining factor.

Of course we have our own process to become a Roman Catholic.  It's not a simple process.

"The first formal step to Catholicism begins with the rite of reception into the _order of catechumens_, in which the unbaptized express their desire and intention to become Christians. "Catechumen" is a term the early Christians used to refer to those preparing to be baptized and become Christians. 

The period of the catechumenate varies depending on how much the catechumen has learned and how ready he feels to take the step of becoming a Christian. However, the catechumenate often lasts less than a year. 

The catechumenate’s purpose is to provide the catechumens with a thorough background in Christian teaching. "A thoroughly comprehensive catechesis on the truths of Catholic doctrine and moral life, aided by approved catechetical texts, is to be provided during the period of the catechumenate" (U.S. Conference of Bishops, _National Statutes for the Catechumenate_, Nov. 11, 1986). The catechumenate also is intended to give the catechumens the opportunity to reflect upon and become firm in their desire to become Catholic, and to show that they are ready to take this serious and joyful step (cf. Luke 14:27–33; 2 Pet. 2:20–22). 

The second formal step is taken with the _rite of election_, in which the catechumens’ names are written in a book of those who will receive the sacraments of initiation. At the rite of election, the catechumen again expresses the desire and intention to become a Christian, and the Church judges that the catechumen is ready to take this step. Normally, the rite of election occurs on the first Sunday of Lent, the forty-day period of preparation for Easter. 

After the rite of election, the candidates undergo a period of more intense reflection, purification, and enlightenment, in which they deepen their commitment to repentance and conversion. During this period the catechumens, now known as the elect, participate in several further rituals. 

The three chief rituals, known as _scrutinies_, are normally celebrated at Mass on the third, fourth, and fifth Sundays of Lent. The scrutinies are rites for self-searching and repentance. They are meant to bring out the qualities of the catechumen’s soul, to heal those qualities which are weak or sinful, and to strengthen those that are positive and good. 

During this period, the catechumens are formally presented with the Apostles’ Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, which they will recite on the night they are initiated. 

The _initiation_ itself usually occurs on the Easter Vigil, the evening before Easter Day. That evening a special Mass is celebrated at which the catechumens are baptized, then given confirmation, and finally receive the holy Eucharist. At this point the catechumens become Catholics and are received into full communion with the Church. 

Ideally the bishop oversees the Easter Vigil service and confers confirmation upon the catechumens, but often—due to large distances or numbers of catechumens—a local parish priest will perform the rites. 

The final state of Christian initiation is known as _mystagogy_, in which the new Christians are strengthened in the faith by further instruction and become more deeply rooted in the local Catholic community. The period of mystagogy normally lasts throughout the Easter season (the fifty days between Easter and Pentecost Sunday)."


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You chose an easy case - 2 angry Arab anti-Zionists.
> Are there reasons to give the son of Hassan Nasrallah a house in Jerusalem his grandfather owned?
> 
> But that of course was an exaggeration.
> 
> *I'd do* a thorough background investigation, check for possible solutions, and some kind of documented 'pledge of allegiance' where they Identify as Israelis, accept and recognize the sovereignty and right's of the indigenous people in that land, and swear not to participate in actions against the nation.
Click to expand...

Your usual deflection.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That baggage means circumcision of all males, and retaining heritage.
> A big part of retaining heritage was by studying the Torah. Jews from Yemen to Poland studied from the same books.* There's a difference in 1 letter. *But it doesn't  mean a person has to be religious or something.
> Ben Gurion studied in a heider, as other Jews in Babylon or Yemen.
> You study heritage, Torah, Mishna, Talmud. You study LAWS and CONVERSATIONS between Jewish sages.
> 
> The grand grand nanny of King David, Ruth , was a Moabite. Israelites were not allowed to mix with Moabites, but her seed are righteous Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop the mumbo jumbo.  When a Jew converts to Roman Catholicism, he/she ceases to be a Jew.  He/she becomes a Roman Catholic. It's the religion that is the determining factor.
> 
> Of course we have our own process to become a Roman Catholic.  It's not a simple process.
> 
> "The first formal step to Catholicism begins with the rite of reception into the _order of catechumens_, in which the unbaptized express their desire and intention to become Christians. "Catechumen" is a term the early Christians used to refer to those preparing to be baptized and become Christians.
> 
> The period of the catechumenate varies depending on how much the catechumen has learned and how ready he feels to take the step of becoming a Christian. However, the catechumenate often lasts less than a year.
> 
> The catechumenate’s purpose is to provide the catechumens with a thorough background in Christian teaching. "A thoroughly comprehensive catechesis on the truths of Catholic doctrine and moral life, aided by approved catechetical texts, is to be provided during the period of the catechumenate" (U.S. Conference of Bishops, _National Statutes for the Catechumenate_, Nov. 11, 1986). The catechumenate also is intended to give the catechumens the opportunity to reflect upon and become firm in their desire to become Catholic, and to show that they are ready to take this serious and joyful step (cf. Luke 14:27–33; 2 Pet. 2:20–22).
> 
> The second formal step is taken with the _rite of election_, in which the catechumens’ names are written in a book of those who will receive the sacraments of initiation. At the rite of election, the catechumen again expresses the desire and intention to become a Christian, and the Church judges that the catechumen is ready to take this step. Normally, the rite of election occurs on the first Sunday of Lent, the forty-day period of preparation for Easter.
> 
> After the rite of election, the candidates undergo a period of more intense reflection, purification, and enlightenment, in which they deepen their commitment to repentance and conversion. During this period the catechumens, now known as the elect, participate in several further rituals.
> 
> The three chief rituals, known as _scrutinies_, are normally celebrated at Mass on the third, fourth, and fifth Sundays of Lent. The scrutinies are rites for self-searching and repentance. They are meant to bring out the qualities of the catechumen’s soul, to heal those qualities which are weak or sinful, and to strengthen those that are positive and good.
> 
> During this period, the catechumens are formally presented with the Apostles’ Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, which they will recite on the night they are initiated.
> 
> The _initiation_ itself usually occurs on the Easter Vigil, the evening before Easter Day. That evening a special Mass is celebrated at which the catechumens are baptized, then given confirmation, and finally receive the holy Eucharist. At this point the catechumens become Catholics and are received into full communion with the Church.
> 
> Ideally the bishop oversees the Easter Vigil service and confers confirmation upon the catechumens, but often—due to large distances or numbers of catechumens—a local parish priest will perform the rites.
> 
> The final state of Christian initiation is known as _mystagogy_, in which the new Christians are strengthened in the faith by further instruction and become more deeply rooted in the local Catholic community. The period of mystagogy normally lasts throughout the Easter season (the fifty days between Easter and Pentecost Sunday)."
Click to expand...



That's Your MAIN symptom of any argument - You project Christianity on Jews. There's no Christian nation. There's a Jewish nation.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You chose an easy case - 2 angry Arab anti-Zionists.
> Are there reasons to give the son of Hassan Nasrallah a house in Jerusalem his grandfather owned?
> 
> But that of course was an exaggeration.
> 
> *I'd do* a thorough background investigation, check for possible solutions, and some kind of documented 'pledge of allegiance' where they Identify as Israelis, accept and recognize the sovereignty and right's of the indigenous people in that land, and swear not to participate in actions against the nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual deflection.
Click to expand...


I gave You all the reasons. Indigenous people have a right of self determination and a right to protect themselves from Arab Muslim colonialism.

You keep dancing around it. Doesn't look smart, kinda like a parrot.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there is a core group of people who stayed and put down roots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You chose an easy case - 2 angry Arab anti-Zionists.
> Are there reasons to give the son of Hassan Nasrallah a house in Jerusalem his grandfather owned?
> 
> But that of course was an exaggeration.
> 
> *I'd do* a thorough background investigation, check for possible solutions, and some kind of documented 'pledge of allegiance' where they Identify as Israelis, accept and recognize the sovereignty and right's of the indigenous people in that land, and swear not to participate in actions against the nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I gave You all the reasons. Indigenous people have a right of self determination and a right to protect themselves from Arab Muslim colonialism.
> 
> You keep dancing around it. Doesn't look smart, kinda like a parrot.
Click to expand...

By indigenous people do you mean those Europeans who have no ancestors from the holy land?


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You chose an easy case - 2 angry Arab anti-Zionists.
> Are there reasons to give the son of Hassan Nasrallah a house in Jerusalem his grandfather owned?
> 
> But that of course was an exaggeration.
> 
> *I'd do* a thorough background investigation, check for possible solutions, and some kind of documented 'pledge of allegiance' where they Identify as Israelis, accept and recognize the sovereignty and right's of the indigenous people in that land, and swear not to participate in actions against the nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I gave You all the reasons. Indigenous people have a right of self determination and a right to protect themselves from Arab Muslim colonialism.
> 
> You keep dancing around it. Doesn't look smart, kinda like a parrot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By indigenous people do you mean those Europeans who have no ancestors from the holy land?
Click to expand...


Oh let's first go through the 1st round where You and Montelatici tryto prove that.
 This exactly proves my point - 'Palestinian' is Arab Muslim colonialism. 
I'm glad that we clear that out.

Let's discuss BLOOD PURITY OF JEWS in the thread about *the definition of 'Palestinian'*


----------



## rylah

And then You go teach me about RIGHTS  and LAWS


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there is any evidence that those Europeans have any ancestors from the holy land I would like to see it.
> 
> You can't "go back" to someplace you have never been
Click to expand...


By any definition of culture or ethnicity the Jewish people came from Israel, Judea and Samaria.  What the hell definition are you using that they don't?

You know, like Chinese people come from China.  And you know this because they are culturally Chinese.


----------



## Eloy

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there is any evidence that those Europeans have any ancestors from the holy land I would like to see it.
> 
> You can't "go back" to someplace you have never been
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By any definition of culture or ethnicity the Jewish people came from Israel, Judea and Samaria.  What the hell definition are you using that they don't?
> 
> You know, like Chinese people come from China.  And you know this because they are culturally Chinese.
Click to expand...

Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't. Until the last century the Jews were part of the European and American culture, speaking European languages and fully part of European political and cultural life. They did not speak Hebrew but German, French, English, etc. Some impoverished Jews in the Polish shtetls spoke a mixture of Polish and German known as Yiddish. Some others were settled in North African and the Middle Eastern regions and speaking local languages. Judaism is a religion, not a culture or an ethnicity.


----------



## Shusha

Eloy said:


> Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't.



Really?  How do you define "culture and ethnicity" in an objective way which includes Chinese and Palestinian but excludes Jewish.

I have challenged people on this board over and over again with this simple question.  No one has ever answered me.  Wanna give it a try?


Simple test.  Define "culture and ethnicity".


----------



## Eloy

Shusha said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  How do you define "culture and ethnicity" in an objective way which includes Chinese and Palestinian but excludes Jewish.
> 
> I have challenged people on this board over and over again with this simple question.  No one has ever answered me.  Wanna give it a try?
> 
> 
> Simple test.  Define "culture and ethnicity".
Click to expand...

It is simple. Culture as in German culture. The culture of German Jewish homes and families in Munich in 1930 were indistinguishable from Catholic ones. They read the same newspapers, spoke German, entered the same professions, played the same sports, joined the same army, ate sausages, drank beer, and greeted their colleagues and children in the schools with "Guten Morgen." Ethnicity? They were white.
As if you did not know this.


----------



## Shusha

The simple test was to define culture.  You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.

Is that your definition, then?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  How do you define "culture and ethnicity" in an objective way which includes Chinese and Palestinian but excludes Jewish.
> 
> I have challenged people on this board over and over again with this simple question.  No one has ever answered me.  Wanna give it a try?
> 
> 
> Simple test.  Define "culture and ethnicity".
Click to expand...

Why? What difference does it make?


----------



## Eloy

Shusha said:


> The simple test was to define culture.  You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.
> 
> Is that your definition, then?


Yes, don't forget the music too.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Why? What difference does it make?



So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.


----------



## Eloy

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? What difference does it make?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.
Click to expand...

"Land of Israel"? Are you including the occupied Palestine Territories, I wonder.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? What difference does it make?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.
Click to expand...

Actually it is the land of Palestine. The foreign government of Israel never legally acquired any land.


----------



## Shusha

Eloy said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The simple test was to define culture.  You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.
> 
> Is that your definition, then?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, don't forget the music too.
Click to expand...


So, by your own definition if a people has a distinctive language, professions, sports, food, drink and music then they have a culture.  Professions and sports are kind of hard but...

German, sausages, beer.

Mandarin, chow mein, tea.

Hebrew, matzah, kosher wine.


----------



## Eloy

Shusha said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The simple test was to define culture.  You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.
> 
> Is that your definition, then?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, don't forget the music too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, by your own definition if a people has a distinctive language, professions, sports, food, drink and music then they have a culture.  Professions and sports are kind of hard but...
> 
> German, sausages, beer.
> 
> Mandarin, chow mein, tea.
> 
> Hebrew, matzah, kosher wine.
Click to expand...

Stop your shallow nonsense.
It was Hitler who claimed that Jews were not German.
He was wrong.


----------



## Shusha

Huh.  You know who doesn't fit Eloy's definition of culture?  The Palestinians.


----------



## louie888

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
Click to expand...

Right, get the hell out of Palestine and back to the ghettos in Europe where they came from.


----------



## rylah

Eloy said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?
> 
> Of course not.  Not for either.  Let's get on with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there is any evidence that those Europeans have any ancestors from the holy land I would like to see it.
> 
> You can't "go back" to someplace you have never been
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By any definition of culture or ethnicity the Jewish people came from Israel, Judea and Samaria.  What the hell definition are you using that they don't?
> 
> You know, like Chinese people come from China.  And you know this because they are culturally Chinese.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't. Until the last century the Jews were part of the European and American culture, speaking European languages and fully part of European political and cultural life. They did not speak Hebrew but German, French, English, etc. Some impoverished Jews in the Polish shtetls spoke a mixture of Polish and German known as Yiddish. Some others were settled in North African and the Middle Eastern regions and speaking local languages. Judaism is a religion, not a culture or an ethnicity.
Click to expand...


We have been over this before, when You tried to claim that Torah scrolls written in Hebrew did not belong to Jews and their heritage.

In every local language that was combined with Hebrew, whether it's Babylonian witch gave us big parts of the language in the Talmud, Aramaic which is in the Hebrew bible, Judeo-Spanish which is influenced directly by the songs in Tehilim and Song of Songs, Yiddish or Judeo- Arabic...they all retained Hebrew.

That's why the works of our sages in the diaspora and in Israel were so coordinated. When two Rabbis from distant diaspora countries met or spoke through letters, it was Hebrew that connected them.

That's why when an  Ashkenazi Rabbi meets a Rabbi from the Babylonian diaspora they can speak freely and discuss the Jerusalem Talmud. In Hebrew.


Hebrew classical song:


That's another traditional song based on Psalms '_*My Joy Return to My Homeland*_'. You hear Arabic influences and Spanish, but it's all the Hebrew language. The traditional melody starts at 2:27

Shabbat song:


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? What difference does it make?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it is the land of Palestine. The foreign government of Israel never legally acquired any land.
Click to expand...


Actually, it was the land of the Islamist Turk colonists / invaders. The geographic area of Palestine (as opposed to your invented "country of Pally'land), was just a loosely defined land area under the control of the Ottomans.


----------



## rylah

And this is the source of all those melodies above:


----------



## rylah

Israel national instrument:


----------



## ForeverYoung436

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are two problems with this.
> 
> 1.  There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years.  And where do you cut it off?  A hundred years of being part of that core group?  Five hundred?  A thousand?  Four thousand?
> 
> 2.  What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?
> 
> 
> The whole argument is silly.  Both peoples have rights.  Both peoples should be entitled to those rights.  Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.
> 
> For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well You chose an easy case - 2 angry Arab anti-Zionists.
> Are there reasons to give the son of Hassan Nasrallah a house in Jerusalem his grandfather owned?
> 
> But that of course was an exaggeration.
> 
> *I'd do* a thorough background investigation, check for possible solutions, and some kind of documented 'pledge of allegiance' where they Identify as Israelis, accept and recognize the sovereignty and right's of the indigenous people in that land, and swear not to participate in actions against the nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your usual deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I gave You all the reasons. Indigenous people have a right of self determination and a right to protect themselves from Arab Muslim colonialism.
> 
> You keep dancing around it. Doesn't look smart, kinda like a parrot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By indigenous people do you mean those Europeans who have no ancestors from the holy land?
Click to expand...


No ancestors?  That's funny.  I have visited the tombs of my ancestors--those of Abraham, Rachel, Joseph, King David, etc.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> Huh.  You know who doesn't fit Eloy's definition of culture?  The Palestinians.


 
Eloy, it is the Palestinians who don't fit your definition of a nationality, not the Israelis.  Israel has a distinctive language--Hebrew.  The Palestinian language, Arabic, is shared by 22 other countries.  Israelis have distinctive food--gefilte fish, cholent, latkes, kugel, matza, etc.  The Palestinians' food are shared by 22 others--falafel, hummus, schwarma, etc.  Israelis have distinctive music--klezmer, folk songs, the hora.  Palestinian Arab music is shared by 22 others.  Israelis have distinctive clothing--tallit, Hasidic garb, kippas.  Palestinian Arab hijabs and burqas are shared by 22 others.  Even the Palestinian flag is a rip-off of Jordan's, while the beautiful Star of David flag is representative of the Jewish and Israeli people.  So Eloy, aside from sports (international soccer, basketball, and judo), it is the Israelis who meet all your qualifications for a nationality, not the Palestinians at all.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Eloy said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  How do you define "culture and ethnicity" in an objective way which includes Chinese and Palestinian but excludes Jewish.
> 
> I have challenged people on this board over and over again with this simple question.  No one has ever answered me.  Wanna give it a try?
> 
> 
> Simple test.  Define "culture and ethnicity".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is simple. Culture as in German culture. The culture of German Jewish homes and families in Munich in 1930 were indistinguishable from Catholic ones. They read the same newspapers, spoke German, entered the same professions, played the same sports, joined the same army, ate sausages, drank beer, and greeted their colleagues and children in the schools with "Guten Morgen." Ethnicity? They were white.
> As if you did not know this.
Click to expand...


Eloy, please read post  #672 on this thread.  It answers all your questions and definitions.


----------



## teddyearp




----------



## fanger

Mark Halawa   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








Mark Halawa was born in Kuwait and lived in Jordan and Syria, but after learning that he is Jewish, he came to Jerusalem to study in a Talmudic college. Now, even after advocating for Israel around the world, Israel's Chief Rabbinate doesn't acknowledge his conversion and the state is denying him citizenship.
Ynetnews Jewish Scene - Born Muslim, converted to Judaism and fighting for residency


----------



## fanger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huh.  You know who doesn't fit Eloy's definition of culture?  The Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy, it is the Palestinians who don't fit your definition of a nationality, not the Israelis.  Israel has a distinctive language--Hebrew.  The Palestinian language, Arabic, is shared by 22 other countries.  Israelis have distinctive food--gefilte fish, cholent, latkes, kugel, matza, etc.  The Palestinians' food are shared by 22 others--falafel, hummus, schwarma, etc.  Israelis have distinctive music--klezmer, folk songs, the hora.  Palestinian Arab music is shared by 22 others.  Israelis have distinctive clothing--tallit, Hasidic garb, kippas.  Palestinian Arab hijabs and burqas are shared by 22 others.  Even the Palestinian flag is a rip-off of Jordan's, while the beautiful Star of David flag is representative of the Jewish and Israeli people.  So Eloy, aside from sports (international soccer, basketball, and judo), it is the Israelis who meet all your qualifications for a nationality, not the Palestinians at all.
Click to expand...

America doesn't have a distinctive language, or a distinctive food


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> We have been over this before, when You tried to claim that Torah scrolls written in Hebrew did not belong to Jews and their heritage.


So?



rylah said:


> In every local language that was combined with Hebrew, whether it's Babylonian witch gave us big parts of the language in the Talmud, Aramaic which is in the Hebrew bible, Judeo-Spanish which is influenced directly by the songs in Tehilim and Song of Songs, Yiddish or Judeo- Arabic...they all retained Hebrew.


So?



rylah said:


> That's why the works of our sages in the diaspora and in Israel were so coordinated. When two Rabbis from distant diaspora countries met or spoke through letters, it was Hebrew that connected them.


Yes, and, asshole, not one traditional Jewish Rabbi nor any of our Sages ever even thought of, let alone discussed taking the Holy land by force... or any land for that matter. At the very beginning of our essence in our covenant with G-d, it is clear that not only are we to remain in our diaspora until He and only He returns us to our promised land, but also we are to remain loyal citizens to whatever country we reside in during our diaspora. <---- FACT!


----------



## ForeverYoung436

longknife said:


> Is this author and website ever going to be attacked? How dare they make such an assertion? It goes against everything the anti-Israel forces have been saying since the '40s. Next thing you know, they will claim the area is such a mess because of outside forces (Israel) and not their own corruption and ineptitude.
> 
> _They are a mix of Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Sudanese etc. who settled within the area known as the British Mandate of Palestine. This land encompassed 43,000 square miles and was promised to the Jews as a national homeland in the 1917 Balfour Declaration. Yet, in 1922 the British turned over 75% of it to create the nation of Transjordan, (today’s Jordan). This left roughly 25% or 11,000 square miles of land to be dealt with._
> 
> _In 1947 the British decided to leave the area and turned the issue over to the United Nations, which by a 72% majority voted to partition two separate states, one Jewish and one Arab. However, the surrounding Arab nations rejected the vote and attacked the new Jewish state one day after its independence, intending to destroy it. This is all indisputable fact._
> 
> Much more of this heretical essay @ Articles: 'Palestinian' Is a Fabricated Nationality



It's about time that this lie is exposed.  The Palestinians are a mixture of nomads from Arabia and Crusader colonialists.  Jews=Judea, Arabs=Arabia.


----------



## fanger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this author and website ever going to be attacked? How dare they make such an assertion? It goes against everything the anti-Israel forces have been saying since the '40s. Next thing you know, they will claim the area is such a mess because of outside forces (Israel) and not their own corruption and ineptitude.
> 
> _They are a mix of Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Sudanese etc. who settled within the area known as the British Mandate of Palestine. This land encompassed 43,000 square miles and was promised to the Jews as a national homeland in the 1917 Balfour Declaration. Yet, in 1922 the British turned over 75% of it to create the nation of Transjordan, (today’s Jordan). This left roughly 25% or 11,000 square miles of land to be dealt with._
> 
> _In 1947 the British decided to leave the area and turned the issue over to the United Nations, which by a 72% majority voted to partition two separate states, one Jewish and one Arab. However, the surrounding Arab nations rejected the vote and attacked the new Jewish state one day after its independence, intending to destroy it. This is all indisputable fact._
> 
> Much more of this heretical essay @ Articles: 'Palestinian' Is a Fabricated Nationality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's about time that this lie is exposed.  The Palestinians are a mixture of nomads from Arabia and Crusader colonialists.  Jews=Judea, Arabs=Arabia.
Click to expand...

Yes that is a big lie, Israelis are descended from illegal immigrants, true story  
here's one   Golda Meir - Wikipedia

Golda Mabovitch (Ukrainian: Ґольда Мабович) was born on May 3, 1898, in Kiev, Russian Empire, present-day Ukraine,


----------



## rylah

louie888 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been over this before, when You tried to claim that Torah scrolls written in Hebrew did not belong to Jews and their heritage.
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In every local language that was combined with Hebrew, whether it's Babylonian witch gave us big parts of the language in the Talmud, Aramaic which is in the Hebrew bible, Judeo-Spanish which is influenced directly by the songs in Tehilim and Song of Songs, Yiddish or Judeo- Arabic...they all retained Hebrew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the works of our sages in the diaspora and in Israel were so coordinated. When two Rabbis from distant diaspora countries met or spoke through letters, it was Hebrew that connected them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, and, asshole, not one traditional Jewish Rabbi nor any of our Sages ever even thought of, let alone discussed taking the Holy land by force... or any land for that matter. At the very beginning of our essence in our covenant with G-d, it is clear that not only are we to remain in our diaspora until He and only He returns us to our promised land, but also we are to remain loyal citizens to whatever country we reside in during our diaspora. <---- FACT!
Click to expand...



Tell me as a Jew  .... have You heard of Moses? Or Yehoshua Bin Nun, or King David , or maybe Nahmonides and Rashi.

Let's start with Moses Our Rabi :

_"[Thereupon,] Moses said to the descendants of Gad and the descendants of Reuben, "Shall your brethren go to war while you stay here?
*
Why do you discourage the children of Israel from crossing over to the land which the Lord has given them?*_
_
And behold, you have now risen in place of your fathers as a society of sinful people, to add to the wrathful anger of the Lord against Israel.

...We will then arm ourselves quickly [and go] before the children of Israel until we have brought them to their place. Our children will reside in the fortified cities on account of the inhabitants of the land.
We shall not return to our homes until each of the children of Israel has taken possession of his inheritance...

Moses said to them, "If you do this thing, if you arm yourselves for battle before the Lord,
and your armed force crosses the Jordan before the Lord until He has driven out His enemies before Him,
and the Land will be conquered before the Lord, afterwards you may return, and you shall be freed [of your obligation] from the Lord and from Israel, and this land will become your heritage before the Lord."_

Bamidbar 32 (heart)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Louie You should know by now that every thing You've said about Jews so far was completely the opposite of fact. You couldn't be further from it. You're planets away.


----------



## rylah

fanger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huh.  You know who doesn't fit Eloy's definition of culture?  The Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy, it is the Palestinians who don't fit your definition of a nationality, not the Israelis.  Israel has a distinctive language--Hebrew.  The Palestinian language, Arabic, is shared by 22 other countries.  Israelis have distinctive food--gefilte fish, cholent, latkes, kugel, matza, etc.  The Palestinians' food are shared by 22 others--falafel, hummus, schwarma, etc.  Israelis have distinctive music--klezmer, folk songs, the hora.  Palestinian Arab music is shared by 22 others.  Israelis have distinctive clothing--tallit, Hasidic garb, kippas.  Palestinian Arab hijabs and burqas are shared by 22 others.  Even the Palestinian flag is a rip-off of Jordan's, while the beautiful Star of David flag is representative of the Jewish and Israeli people.  So Eloy, aside from sports (international soccer, basketball, and judo), it is the Israelis who meet all your qualifications for a nationality, not the Palestinians at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> America doesn't have a distinctive language, or a distinctive food
Click to expand...


You're making a good point here...clear this up for me:

_"America doesn't have distinctive language, or a distinctive food"
_

Are You suggesting that Palestinian nationalism can be compared to USA, or that Americans are the indigenous people?


----------



## louie888

rylah said:


> louie888 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been over this before, when You tried to claim that Torah scrolls written in Hebrew did not belong to Jews and their heritage.
> 
> 
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> In every local language that was combined with Hebrew, whether it's Babylonian witch gave us big parts of the language in the Talmud, Aramaic which is in the Hebrew bible, Judeo-Spanish which is influenced directly by the songs in Tehilim and Song of Songs, Yiddish or Judeo- Arabic...they all retained Hebrew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So?
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the works of our sages in the diaspora and in Israel were so coordinated. When two Rabbis from distant diaspora countries met or spoke through letters, it was Hebrew that connected them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, and, asshole, not one traditional Jewish Rabbi nor any of our Sages ever even thought of, let alone discussed taking the Holy land by force... or any land for that matter. At the very beginning of our essence in our covenant with G-d, it is clear that not only are we to remain in our diaspora until He and only He returns us to our promised land, but also we are to remain loyal citizens to whatever country we reside in during our diaspora. <---- FACT!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me as a Jew  .... have You heard of Moses? Or Yehoshua Bin Nun, or King David , or maybe Nahmonides and Rashi.
> 
> Let's start with Moses Our Rabi :
> 
> _"[Thereupon,] Moses said to the descendants of Gad and the descendants of Reuben, "Shall your brethren go to war while you stay here?
> *
> Why do you discourage the children of Israel from crossing over to the land which the Lord has given them?*
> 
> And behold, you have now risen in place of your fathers as a society of sinful people, to add to the wrathful anger of the Lord against Israel.
> 
> ...We will then arm ourselves quickly [and go] before the children of Israel until we have brought them to their place. Our children will reside in the fortified cities on account of the inhabitants of the land.
> We shall not return to our homes until each of the children of Israel has taken possession of his inheritance...
> 
> Moses said to them, "If you do this thing, if you arm yourselves for battle before the Lord,
> and your armed force crosses the Jordan before the Lord until He has driven out His enemies before Him,
> and the Land will be conquered before the Lord, afterwards you may return, and you shall be freed [of your obligation] from the Lord and from Israel, and this land will become your heritage before the Lord."_
> 
> Bamidbar 32 (heart)
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Louie You should know by now that every thing You've said about Jews so far was completely the opposite of fact. You couldn't be further from it. You're planets away.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with my post, tool.
Read it again.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> It's about time that this lie is exposed. The Palestinians are a mixture of nomads from Arabia and Crusader colonialists. Jews=Judea, Arabs=Arabia.



What about a bunch of blond, blue eyed, pink skinned Russians, Germans and Poles like this jewish ukrainian couple:






pathetically trying to trick the whole world into believing they are the offspring of a people who looked more or less like this guy:





​in order to justify the dispossession and murder of the real descendants of the ancient semitic peoples of the land.

If the whole story were just the case of a bunch of batshit crazy albinos trying to be what they aren't, the state of Israel would be just a mildly amusing joke that would draw little to no criticism from the rest of the world because as they say "*if you look close enough nobody is normal*".

But since the collective, socially accepted madness involves the discrimination, exile and murder of the real "Jews" who inhabit the land it becomes a sad, tragic, bloody joke.

Six decades after its creation, it is now a recurring nightmare more than a bad joke.


----------



## rylah

fanger said:


> Mark Halawa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Halawa was born in Kuwait and lived in Jordan and Syria, but after learning that he is Jewish, he came to Jerusalem to study in a Talmudic college. Now, even after advocating for Israel around the world, Israel's Chief Rabbinate doesn't acknowledge his conversion and the state is denying him citizenship.
> Ynetnews Jewish Scene - Born Muslim, converted to Judaism and fighting for residency



Another good point for Montelatici  and his fixation on conversion.

As I've said earlier - THOROUGH BACKGROUND INVESTIGATION.
You can read documents of certain cases online (without names).


----------



## rylah

But seriously people, moving from the motion to check the blood purity of Jews, proposed by team-Palestine...we're again discussing the indigenous Jewish culture.

So can Palestine be compared to one of the smaller states in the USA...as it sounds from fanger's previous post?

Sorry if it offends anyone or something


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> It's about time that this lie is exposed. The Palestinians are a mixture of nomads from Arabia and Crusader colonialists. Jews=Judea, Arabs=Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about a bunch of blond, blue eyed, pink skinned Russians, Germans and Poles like this jewish ukrainian couple:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pathetically trying to trick the whole world into believing they are the offspring of a people who looked more or less like this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​in order to justify the dispossession and murder of the real descendants of the ancient semitic peoples of the land.
> 
> If the whole story were just the case of a bunch of batshit crazy albinoes trying to be what they aren't, the state of Israel would be just a mildly amusing joke that would draw little to no criticism from the rest of the world because as they say "*if you look close enough nobody is normal*".
> 
> But since the collective, socially accepted madness involves the discrimination, exile and murder of the real "Jews" who inhabited the land it becomes a sad, tragic, bloody joke.
> 
> Six decades after its creation, it is now a recurring nightmare more than a bad joke.
Click to expand...


The reason that Israel "draws criticism from the rest of the world" is for no other reason than anti-Semitism.  40 years ago, the Italian-American hoodlums in Brooklyn were yelling at my dad,  "Go back to Palestine!"  Now they're yelling at the Jews,  "Get out of Palestine!"  The Arch of Titus in Rome shows Jewish slaves being brought to Western Europe.  It's not such a long voyage from there to Eastern Europe.  And, FYI, I met a light-haired Palestinian at the Tomb of Abraham in Hebron.  He took me on a little tour of the place before we say down and chatted and I found out he was an Arab, and not a Jew.  The Arabs can share half of 1% of the Middle East with their Jewish cousins.  And please don't save this post, in order to release it in 5 years, as is your practice to do.


----------



## Hollie

fanger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this author and website ever going to be attacked? How dare they make such an assertion? It goes against everything the anti-Israel forces have been saying since the '40s. Next thing you know, they will claim the area is such a mess because of outside forces (Israel) and not their own corruption and ineptitude.
> 
> _They are a mix of Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Sudanese etc. who settled within the area known as the British Mandate of Palestine. This land encompassed 43,000 square miles and was promised to the Jews as a national homeland in the 1917 Balfour Declaration. Yet, in 1922 the British turned over 75% of it to create the nation of Transjordan, (today’s Jordan). This left roughly 25% or 11,000 square miles of land to be dealt with._
> 
> _In 1947 the British decided to leave the area and turned the issue over to the United Nations, which by a 72% majority voted to partition two separate states, one Jewish and one Arab. However, the surrounding Arab nations rejected the vote and attacked the new Jewish state one day after its independence, intending to destroy it. This is all indisputable fact._
> 
> Much more of this heretical essay @ Articles: 'Palestinian' Is a Fabricated Nationality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's about time that this lie is exposed.  The Palestinians are a mixture of nomads from Arabia and Crusader colonialists.  Jews=Judea, Arabs=Arabia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes that is a big lie, Israelis are descended from illegal immigrants, true story
> here's one   Golda Meir - Wikipedia
> 
> Golda Mabovitch (Ukrainian: Ґольда Мабович) was born on May 3, 1898, in Kiev, Russian Empire, present-day Ukraine,
Click to expand...


Yassir Arafat, the inventor of "Pal'istanian" as a national identity was Egyptian.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

José said:


> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> It's about time that this lie is exposed. The Palestinians are a mixture of nomads from Arabia and Crusader colonialists. Jews=Judea, Arabs=Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about a bunch of blond, blue eyed, pink skinned Russians, Germans and Poles like this jewish ukrainian couple:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pathetically trying to trick the whole world into believing they are the offspring of a people who looked more or less like this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​in order to justify the dispossession and murder of the real descendants of the ancient semitic peoples of the land.
> 
> If the whole story were just the case of a bunch of batshit crazy albinoes trying to be what they aren't, the state of Israel would be just a mildly amusing joke that would draw little to no criticism from the rest of the world because as they say "*if you look close enough nobody is normal*".
> 
> But since the collective, socially accepted madness involves the discrimination, exile and murder of the real "Jews" who inhabit the land it becomes a sad, tragic, bloody joke.
> 
> Six decades after its creation, it is now a recurring nightmare more than a bad joke.
Click to expand...


The Palestinians aren't "the real Jews."  Israel was conquered by the Arabians, under Mohammed, like the rest of the Mideast.  And a document from the 1920's says the population of Palestine was constantly being replenished by the nomads of Arabia.


----------



## montelatici

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that after the invasion by the colonizing xtian Crusaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What hypocricy by monte!!  The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal country but not the modern state of Israel?  The current Jews are colonizers but the Christian Crusaders were not?
> 
> As for your other assertion, Lebanon was separated from Syria because of its large Christian population (which the Muslims have since decimated), but that was not the case with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where have I said that the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal state and Israel is not?  You must be confusing me with someone else.
> 
> The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.  The Zionists expelled the native inhabitants, to settle their population there.  There is a difference.
> 
> Palestine had a large Christian population before the Zionists arrived, as many as 20% were Christian.  And, the Kudus Special District (Palestine) was ruled directly from Istanbul, unlike Syria.  It's just an historical fact.
> 
> Lebanon was split from Syria by the French, not the Ottomans, get your history straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha ha!  It said "the Crusaders 'arrived' to rule over..."!
> Never in my life have I seen  someone so full of ignorance and hate.
Click to expand...


What do you think the Crusaders did, if not rule?  What do you think the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem did, organize picnics?  You continue to make a fool of yourself.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung436*
> It's about time that this lie is exposed. The Palestinians are a mixture of nomads from Arabia and Crusader colonialists. Jews=Judea, Arabs=Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about a bunch of blond, blue eyed, pink skinned Russians, Germans and Poles like this jewish ukrainian couple:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pathetically trying to trick the whole world into believing they are the offspring of a people who looked more or less like this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​in order to justify the dispossession and murder of the real descendants of the ancient semitic peoples of the land.
> 
> If the whole story were just the case of a bunch of batshit crazy albinoes trying to be what they aren't, the state of Israel would be just a mildly amusing joke that would draw little to no criticism from the rest of the world because as they say "*if you look close enough nobody is normal*".
> 
> But since the collective, socially accepted madness involves the discrimination, exile and murder of the real "Jews" who inhabited the land it becomes a sad, tragic, bloody joke.
> 
> Six decades after its creation, it is now a recurring nightmare more than a bad joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The reason that Israel "draws criticism from the rest of the world" is for no other reason than anti-Semitism.  40 years ago, the Italian-American hoodlums in Brooklyn were yelling at my dad,  "Go back to Palestine!"  Now they're yelling at the Jews,  "Get out of Palestine!"  The Arch of Titus in Rome shows Jewish slaves being brought to Western Europe.  It's not such a long voyage from there to Eastern Europe.  And, FYI, I met a light-haired Palestinian at the Tomb of Abraham in Hebron.  He took me on a little tour of the place before we say down and chatted and I found out he was an Arab, and not a Jew.  The Arabs can share half of 1% of the Middle East with their Jewish cousins.  And please don't save this post, in order to release it in 5 years, as is your practice to do.
Click to expand...


They aren't Jewish slaves carrying the spoils.  They are Roman soldiers with pillows on their backs carrying the spoils into Rome.

"The Romans are in triumphal procession wearing laurel crowns and the ones carrying the Menorah have pillows on their shoulders."

Arch of Titus - Biblical Archaeology in Rome (Bible History  Online)


----------



## montelatici

When they start reverting to their bible as historical evidence, they have lost.


----------



## Shusha

José said:


> What about a bunch of blond, blue eyed, pink skinned Russians, Germans and Poles like this jewish ukrainian couple: ...



Wait.  So we are using hair color as the definitive factor of who has rights?








Sorry, Shirley Temper, you do not belong here.  Get thee gone.  

​


----------



## rylah

Wait, what? I referred to music, language, law.
And I didn't even start yet...You know we can go for month's on just the works written in the land.
What do You have accept for blood purity agendas?


----------



## montelatici

There is one basic fact.  The land was inhabited overwhelmingly by native Christians and Muslims (more than 95%) until Europeans that practiced Judaism invaded the land, colonized it and evicted a large number of the native people.

No mumbo jumbo can change that basic fact.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> There is one basic fact.  The land was inhabited overwhelmingly by native Christians and Muslims (more than 95%) until Europeans that practiced Judaism invaded the land, colonized it and evicted a large number of the native people.
> 
> No mumbo jumbo can change that basic fact.



Get over it already.  There were extenuating circumstances involved.


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is one basic fact.  The land was inhabited overwhelmingly by native Christians and Muslims (more than 95%) until Europeans that practiced Judaism invaded the land, colonized it and evicted a large number of the native people.
> 
> No mumbo jumbo can change that basic fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get over it already.  There were extenuating circumstances involved.
Click to expand...


There were no "extenuating circumstances" that could justify the invasion, colonization and expropriation of a people inhabiting a land.  Unless, like the Nazis, the Zionists considered the non-Jews "untermenschen" who could be eliminated because "Lebensraum" for the Jews was more important than the lives of non-Jews.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *FY*
> And please don't save this post, in order to release it in 5 years, as is your practice to do.



ForeverYoung, it was not my intention to embarass you in front of Eloy by quoting that message of yours that said exactly the opposite of what you were saying.

It was not the purpose of that message even if you mistakenly interpreted this way.

If you reread the message you can see its REAL purpose: to express my deep sorrow and understanding towards the tragedy that struck your family in the 40's.

I said something like this:

*You have to cut him some slack, he lost half of his family in WWII.*

I was expressing my empathy towards you not trying to embarrass you.... but I can see how I inadvertently ended up embarrasing you so I appologise.


----------



## José

I cited Ahed Tamimi in my next post but Shusha was faster than me and managed to completely ruin my humourous reference to the young lady.


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *ForeverYoung462*
> It's not such a long voyage from there to Eastern Europe. And, FYI, I met a light-haired Palestinian at the Tomb of Abraham in Hebron. He took me on a little tour of the place before we say down and chatted and I found out he was an Arab, and not a Jew.



I'm gonna try to dispel once and for all the enormous confusion that you have regarding this subject.

Think with me for a moment, FY:

Are all european Jews blond, blue-eyed people with pink skin?

Of course, they aren't!!

And the photo of the jewish ukrainian family I posted above is itself the evidence of this.

If you pay attention you're gonna see that the husband-father, although much more white than the arab guy I posted below, is clearly less white than his wife and children. I can't see the color of his eyes but he's definitely not blond.

But now ask yourself the same question about the christian population of Europe:

Are all european Gentiles blond, blue-eyed people with pink skin?

Just like the european Jews, they aren't either.

And if you do a comparative anlysis you'll see that both populations Jews and Gentiles have the same proportion of people with dark hair, brown eyes *VS* blond, blue eyed individuals.

So you cannot tell who is a Gentile and who is a Jew based on their physical traits.

In other words, *genetically* christian and jewish europeans are exactly the same people who happen to profess different religions.

The Askhenazi matches the physical traits of the christian population of Europe perfectly.

The same can be said about the light-haired tourist guide you met in the West Bank.

You have palestinians who have blond hair, blue eyes and fair skin.

Ahed Tamimi, the young lady of the notorious, very militant palestinian clan Tamimi (that Hollie derisively calls Shirley Temper ) is another example.

But when you look at the *AVERAGE* palestinian arab (not Palestinian A, Palestinian B or Palestinian C), but the *AVERAGE *Palestinian, what you see is clearly a semitic people.

The *AVERAGE* you obtain when you consider all Palestinians combined is clearly that of a people of the Middle East.

The Askhenazi is the average european and the Palestinian Arab is the average semitic people.

Trying to deny this reality regarding the perfect match between the phenotype of Askhenazis and other europeans and the semitic traits of the *AVERAGE* Palestinian is absolute insanity.


----------



## Shusha

The very essence racism is using physical characteristics to define people.

Its repulsive.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> The very essence racism is using physical characteristics to define people.
> 
> Its repulsive.



Just as trying to claim that Jews are a people and not adherents to a religion.

"This dangerous religion-equals-race ideology lumps Latin American Catholics with Irish Catholics; puts Moroccan Jews in the same genetic bin with my ancestors from Lithuanian, Polish, and German _shtetls_; and erases racial differences between Indonesian Muslims and Lebanese Muslims. Doesn't make much sense, does it?.......there is no such thing as Muslim blood. Neither is there any such thing as Catholic blood nor Jewish blood."

Confusing race and religion is dangerous


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> There were no "extenuating circumstances" that could justify the invasion, colonization and expropriation of a people inhabiting a land.



You are on a ROLL today!  Thank you!


----------



## José

> Originally posted by *Shusha*
> The very essence racism is using physical characteristics to define people.
> 
> Its repulsive.



The very essence of colonialism is creating foundational myths that use religion and other cultural traits to postulate a fake indigeneity in order to legitimize the colonization and dispossession of the native population.

Its repulsive.


----------



## Shusha

montelatici said:


> Just as trying to claim that Jews are a people and not adherents to a religion.


Claiming that Jews are a people is repulsive?  Is claiming the Irish are a people repulsive?  Is claiming the Koreans are a people repulsive?  Is claiming that the Inuit are a people repulsive?  Why do you apply different standards to the Jewish people that you would apply to no other people?  Your antisemitic slip is showing again.  

Is it repulsive to claim that the Palestinians are NOT a people, because, after all, by their own admission, they are the same as Syrians and Jordanians.


"This dangerous religion-equals-race ideology lumps Latin American Catholics with Irish Catholics;... [/quote]

Oh, give me a break, it does not.

It defines people by their culture.  If you speak Gaelic, and drink whiskey and eat colcannon you're are probably Irish (though you may be Scots).  If you speak Portuguese and drink cachaca and eat something like feijoada you are probably Brazilian.  If you speak Hebrew and drink kosher wine and eat matzah, hey guess what -- you are probably Jewish.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were no "extenuating circumstances" that could justify the invasion, colonization and expropriation of a people inhabiting a land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are on a ROLL today!  Thank you!
Click to expand...


Why are you thanking me?  The inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force became law on 26 June 1945. Thank you!


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as trying to claim that Jews are a people and not adherents to a religion.
> 
> 
> 
> Claiming that Jews are a people is repulsive?  Is claiming the Irish are a people repulsive?  Is claiming the Koreans are a people repulsive?  Is claiming that the Inuit are a people repulsive?  Why do you apply different standards to the Jewish people that you would apply to no other people?  Your antisemitic slip is showing again.
> 
> Is it repulsive to claim that the Palestinians are NOT a people, because, after all, by their own admission, they are the same as Syrians and Jordanians.
> 
> 
> "This dangerous religion-equals-race ideology lumps Latin American Catholics with Irish Catholics;...
Click to expand...


Oh, give me a break, it does not.

It defines people by their culture.  If you speak Gaelic, and drink whiskey and eat colcannon you're are probably Irish (though you may be Scots).  If you speak Portuguese and drink cachaca and eat something like feijoada you are probably Brazilian.  If you speak Hebrew and drink kosher wine and eat matzah, hey guess what -- you are probably Jewish.[/QUOTE]

If you speak Gaelic, and drink whiskey and eat colcannon you're are probably Irish and you could practice Judaism.  You are still Irish that practices Judaism.  

Judaism is a religion, anyone, of any race and people, can practice Judaism. There is no Jewish people.


----------



## Shusha

The Jewish people gained sovereignty over their historical, ancestral and indigenous lands in 1922 by force of treaty and international agreement and law.  Phew.  

Good thing the Arab armies which attacked in 1948 didn't win any territory, since they wouldn't have been allowed to keep it.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> The Jewish people gained sovereignty over their historical, ancestral and indigenous lands in 1922 by force of treaty and international agreement and law.  Phew.
> 
> Good thing the Arab armies which attacked in 1948 didn't win any territory, since they wouldn't have been allowed to keep it.



There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people gained sovereignty over their historical, ancestral and indigenous lands in 1922 by force of treaty and international agreement and law.  Phew.
> 
> Good thing the Arab armies which attacked in 1948 didn't win any territory, since they wouldn't have been allowed to keep it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
Click to expand...


Says the same Montelatici who openly calls for expulsion of all non Christians from the land.

Better be called an invader or outsider in Your homeland than in any other country.

Those Christians and Muslims didn't become a majority by peaceful means. 
And when did the expulsion or eradication against Jews ever stop under their control in that land?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Shusha said:


> José said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about a bunch of blond, blue eyed, pink skinned Russians, Germans and Poles like this jewish ukrainian couple: ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  So we are using hair color as the definitive factor of who has rights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, Shirley Temper, you do not belong here.  Get thee gone.
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


Well, Jose, would you agree that this blond-haired Arab girl does not belong in Palestine then?  And, ironically, she is the poster child for their "resistance."


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.



Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.

Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.

S/766 of 22 May 1948

What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.

(h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?


Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.



https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf


----------



## José

LOL.

Blond people in Palestine-Israel don't have to leave their homeland anymore than blond people in South Africa did, FY.

Despite the terrifying scenes of thousands of black South Africans singing "Kill the white!!", "Kill the white!!" that used to frighten white South Africans so much during the last years of Apartheid, the only ones who left the country in the last 25 years were those who thought they could make a better living elsewhere.

The only thing that doesn't belong in Palestine-Israel are the walls and razor-wire fences.


----------



## rylah

So we're back at discussing Jews in a thread about the definition of 'Palestinian'....


What a surprise  Seems like anything 'palestinian' is in escence foreign to the land or comes from the Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> So we're back at discussing Jews in a thread about the definition of 'Palestinian'....
> 
> 
> What a surprise  Seems like anything 'palestinian' is in escence foreign to the land or comes from the Jews.


You can't really discuss the Palestinians without Zionist settler colonialism. It has been their life for a hundred years.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people gained sovereignty over their historical, ancestral and indigenous lands in 1922 by force of treaty and international agreement and law.  Phew.
> 
> Good thing the Arab armies which attacked in 1948 didn't win any territory, since they wouldn't have been allowed to keep it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the same Montelatici who openly calls for expulsion of all non Christians from the land.
> 
> Better be called an invader or outsider in Your homeland than in any other country.
> 
> Those Christians and Muslims didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> And when did the expulsion or eradication against Jews ever stop under their control in that land?
Click to expand...


The Christians became a majority because the Jews, Samaritans and others of Palestine converted to Christianity.  Making it legally necessary to be a Christian to reside within Palestine is not necessarly a violent action. The Muslim rulers were actually less insistent that the Christians convert to Islam, as Christians were a source of funding through special taxation on Christians.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Jewish people gained sovereignty over their historical, ancestral and indigenous lands in 1922 by force of treaty and international agreement and law.  Phew.
> 
> Good thing the Arab armies which attacked in 1948 didn't win any territory, since they wouldn't have been allowed to keep it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the same Montelatici who openly calls for expulsion of all non Christians from the land.
> 
> Better be called an invader or outsider in Your homeland than in any other country.
> 
> Those Christians and Muslims didn't become a majority by peaceful means.
> And when did the expulsion or eradication against Jews ever stop under their control in that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Christians became a majority because the Jews, Samaritans and others of Palestine converted to Christianity.  Making it legally necessary to be a Christian to reside within Palestine is not necessarly a violent action. The Muslim rulers were actually less insistent that the Christians convert to Islam, as Christians were a source of funding through special taxation on Christians.
Click to expand...

It's fine to speak the truth about the Christian dhimmis under the Islamist invaders / colonists. 

Similarly, it's appropriate to acknowledge the actions of the muhammedan invaders / colonists. 

Neither the European xtian Crusaders nor the Islamist invaders / colonists were encouraged to immigrate to the area as the Jewish people were.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> The Christians became a majority because the Jews, Samaritans and others of Palestine converted to Christianity.  *Making it legally necessary to be a Christian to reside within Palestine is not necessarly a violent action..*


----------



## Shusha

Does that mean monte would not be opposed to making it legally necessary to be a Jew to reside in Israel, Judea and Samaria?  I mean, its not like its a violent action or anything.


----------



## rylah

It's not that it's a violent action to demand a Jew free Palestine...not at all...never was




*So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—*

_"Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state."_

*Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?*

_"Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after."

*MAEN RASHID AREIKAT*
*The Palestinian ambassador to Washington*_


----------



## Shusha

Does that mean all the Arabs "Palestinians" who are inside the borders of Israel will have to leave?


----------



## Challenger

June 7 2017 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> June 7 2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No-one mentioned the word _Israelis_ until 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> The land was call Yis-rah-al by God.
> The Jews were called Y'hoodihm after the tribe of Judah.
> Israel is yet another in a long series of Anglicized bad translations of Hebrew words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the land was called Canaan, the "Israelites" chose to call themselves that as a sign of their devotion to their god "El"
> No. Judeans were called that as derived from the tribe of Judah, which settled in the highlands which derive their name from that settlement. They may or may not have followed the monotheistic religion that eventually became known as "Judaism" the followers of which are now called "Jews"
> No, the word comes from Latin and Greek transliterations from Aramaic or ancient Hebrew.
> 
> Happy to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I presume you never studied Torah.
> Happy to help.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Never been much into fantasy novels.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And still you tried to lie your way through something of which you know nothing.
Click to expand...

Zionists lie, period.


----------



## rylah

*"The land was never called Israel until 1948"  *






Judaea, Bar Kochba Revolt Large Bronze, AE30 mm. Year 1 (132/3 CE). Hebrew inscription Shim'on, Prince of Israel in wreath / Hebrew inscription Year One of the Redemption of Israel, two-handled amphora with fluted body.




*COINS OF THE BAR-KOHBA WAR AGAINST THE ROMANS, INSCRIBED "SHIMON PRINCE OF ISRAEL" DATING 132-3 AD*


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.
> 
> Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.
> 
> S/766 of 22 May 1948
> 
> What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.
> 
> (h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
> 
> 
> Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf
Click to expand...


Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> *"The land was never called Israel until 1948"  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judaea, Bar Kochba Revolt Large Bronze, AE30 mm. Year 1 (132/3 CE). Hebrew inscription Shim'on, Prince of Israel in wreath / Hebrew inscription Year One of the Redemption of Israel, two-handled amphora with fluted body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COINS OF THE BAR-KOHBA WAR AGAINST THE ROMANS, INSCRIBED "SHIMON PRINCE OF ISRAEL" DATING 132-3 AD*


Proves nothing. Alexander the Great minted coins stating he was the son of Zeus-Ammon, it was a tradition in antiquity to invoke religion to legitimise a regime or or give the ruler more "street cred". Much like ISIS today, declaring the restoration of the Caliphate  to legitimise their "state"


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The land was never called Israel until 1948"  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judaea, Bar Kochba Revolt Large Bronze, AE30 mm. Year 1 (132/3 CE). Hebrew inscription Shim'on, Prince of Israel in wreath / Hebrew inscription Year One of the Redemption of Israel, two-handled amphora with fluted body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COINS OF THE BAR-KOHBA WAR AGAINST THE ROMANS, INSCRIBED "SHIMON PRINCE OF ISRAEL" DATING 132-3 AD*
> 
> 
> 
> Proves nothing. Alexander the Great minted coins stating he was the son of Zeus-Ammon, it was a tradition in antiquity to invoke religion to legitimise a regime or or give the ruler more "street cred". Much like ISIS today, declaring the restoration of the Caliphate  to legitimise their "state"
Click to expand...


So you're saying there was no Maccabean Kingdom?  No King John Hyrcanus, no Queen Salome Alexandra, no Prince Aristobulus?  No civil war between rivals to the throne which allowed Rome to take over?  So whoever wrote all of that into the history books had a wild imagination, I guess.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"The land was never called Israel until 1948"  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judaea, Bar Kochba Revolt Large Bronze, AE30 mm. Year 1 (132/3 CE). Hebrew inscription Shim'on, Prince of Israel in wreath / Hebrew inscription Year One of the Redemption of Israel, two-handled amphora with fluted body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COINS OF THE BAR-KOHBA WAR AGAINST THE ROMANS, INSCRIBED "SHIMON PRINCE OF ISRAEL" DATING 132-3 AD*
> 
> 
> 
> Proves nothing. Alexander the Great minted coins stating he was the son of Zeus-Ammon, it was a tradition in antiquity to invoke religion to legitimise a regime or or give the ruler more "street cred". Much like ISIS today, declaring the restoration of the Caliphate  to legitimise their "state"
Click to expand...


Proves the land was called Israel long before 1948. Long long before Syrian Arabs decided to identify as 'Palestinians'
You try to deflect, switch and bait because You 'HAVE NOTHING ON PALESTINIAN'.
Your bogus lies about Jews are so easily refuted, please keep on, it's a good platform to show the indigenous culture.


----------



## montelatici

Τώρα από την περσική χώρα στη Φοινίκη υπάρχει μια ευρεία και τεράστια έκταση γης. Και από τη Φοινίκη αυτή η χερσόνησος τρέχει δίπλα στη θάλασσα μας μέσω της Συριακής Παλαιστίνης και της Αιγύπτου, η οποία βρίσκεται στο τέλος της. Σε αυτή τη χερσόνησο υπάρχουν μόνο τρία έθνη.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.
> 
> Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.
> 
> S/766 of 22 May 1948
> 
> What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.
> 
> (h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
> 
> 
> Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?
Click to expand...


Curious that those belching out the Islamist taqiyya attempt to define terms which they know nothing of.


----------



## Eloy

rylah said:


> *"The land was never called Israel until 1948"  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judaea, Bar Kochba Revolt Large Bronze, AE30 mm. Year 1 (132/3 CE). Hebrew inscription Shim'on, Prince of Israel in wreath / Hebrew inscription Year One of the Redemption of Israel, two-handled amphora with fluted body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *COINS OF THE BAR-KOHBA WAR AGAINST THE ROMANS, INSCRIBED "SHIMON PRINCE OF ISRAEL" DATING 132-3 AD*


Notwithstanding the inscription, "Shimon Prince of Israel", the coin you reproduce is dated 132-3 CE and was minted in the Roman province of *Judea* under the prefecture of Gargilius Antigues. Some Jews regarded the rebel Simon as the Messiah and referred to him as the Prince of Israel. The revolt was put down within a couple of years. Given that it was a time of revolt by some Jews which was unsuccessful, the "Israel" referred to is similar to how some Islamists refer to areas they control today in Syria and Iraq as the Islamic State. Using a similar view that such an Islamic State does not in reality exist, it is probably more correct to speak of Shimon Prince of _so-called_ Israel. Sorry.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.
> 
> Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.
> 
> S/766 of 22 May 1948
> 
> What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.
> 
> (h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
> 
> 
> Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?
Click to expand...

Good point. Israel never has, and still does not have, a defined territory.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.
> 
> Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.
> 
> S/766 of 22 May 1948
> 
> What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.
> 
> (h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
> 
> 
> Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. Israel never has, and still does not have, a defined territory.
Click to expand...


Except for the territory that defines its sovereignty and the borders it defends to maintain that sovereignty. 

Another of your failed attempts at trying to make a point.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.
> 
> Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.
> 
> S/766 of 22 May 1948
> 
> What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.
> 
> (h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
> 
> 
> Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. Israel never has, and still does not have, a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the territory that defines its sovereignty and the borders it defends to maintain that sovereignty.
> 
> Another of your failed attempts at trying to make a point.
Click to expand...

Except that Israel still legally has no land. Just a military occupation.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was no international treaty, that gave Europeans sovereignty in the Middle East.  The Arab League did not intervene into any part of the Jew partition or subsequently Israel.  What are you talking about.  The Arab League entered the Arab and International sectors to try to prevent the Jews from evicting and killing the Christians and Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.
> 
> Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.
> 
> S/766 of 22 May 1948
> 
> What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.
> 
> (h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
> 
> 
> Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. Israel never has, and still does not have, a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the territory that defines its sovereignty and the borders it defends to maintain that sovereignty.
> 
> Another of your failed attempts at trying to make a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except that Israel still legally has no land. Just a military occupation.
Click to expand...



Except that you can whine as you wish. Your legal opinions are taken with a chuckle.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your limited education and inability to research the source documents leaves you at a disadvantage.
> 
> Israel was attacked by Arab-Moslem armies. Your silly babbling to the contrary is nonsensical.
> 
> S/766 of 22 May 1948
> 
> What follows is one of several questions posed on behalf of the UN and the Israeli response.
> 
> (h) Have Arab forces penetrated into the territory over which you claim to have authority?
> 
> 
> Answer to Question (h): Arab forces have penetrated into the territory of the State of Israel in certain corners of the Northern Negev and in the Jordan Valley south of Lake Tiberias. In addition, planes of the Royal Egyptian Air Force have repeatedly raided Tel Aviv and southern Jewish settlements, while Iraqi air-force planes have been raiding settlements in the Northern Jordan Valley and artillery of the Syrian and Lebanese armies have been shelling settlements in Upper Galilee from across the frontier.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/HIST351-10.4.3-1948-Arab-Israeli-War.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point. Israel never has, and still does not have, a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the territory that defines its sovereignty and the borders it defends to maintain that sovereignty.
> 
> Another of your failed attempts at trying to make a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except that Israel still legally has no land. Just a military occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Except that you can whine as you wish. Your legal opinions are taken with a chuckle.
Click to expand...

It's true. Look it up.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, Zionist Hasbara mythology always tries to claim that Zionist Israel never declared any borders when it declared statehood. If that's the case, how is it possible for Arab forces to penetrate the "territory of the state of Israel"?
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Israel never has, and still does not have, a defined territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the territory that defines its sovereignty and the borders it defends to maintain that sovereignty.
> 
> Another of your failed attempts at trying to make a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except that Israel still legally has no land. Just a military occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Except that you can whine as you wish. Your legal opinions are taken with a chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's true. Look it up.
Click to expand...


Deflection.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Israel never has, and still does not have, a defined territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the territory that defines its sovereignty and the borders it defends to maintain that sovereignty.
> 
> Another of your failed attempts at trying to make a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except that Israel still legally has no land. Just a military occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Except that you can whine as you wish. Your legal opinions are taken with a chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's true. Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection.
Click to expand...

Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the territory that defines its sovereignty and the borders it defends to maintain that sovereignty.
> 
> Another of your failed attempts at trying to make a point.
> 
> 
> 
> Except that Israel still legally has no land. Just a military occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Except that you can whine as you wish. Your legal opinions are taken with a chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's true. Look it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Deflection.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
Click to expand...


Deflection. 

The _angry Islamist_ thingy is a hoot.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.



Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.
Click to expand...

Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.
Click to expand...


Indeed, funny. There is a thread dedicated to issues surrounding the creation of Israel where your whining about that event and your attempts to re-write history have been addressed repeatedly and tediously.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.



"Jewish National Homeland".  The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine.  They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty.  Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory.    Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government.  And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations. 

historical indigenous right + realization + recognition.    Done deal.  Get on with it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland".  The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine.  They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty.  Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory.    Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government.  And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition.    Done deal.  Get on with it.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> in the territory of Mandate Palestine.


The Mandate had no territory. It was a trustee.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate had no territory. It was a trustee.



Don't be daft.  You are arguing for the pennies while the dollars escape you.  We both know what territory we are talking about.  Pick whatever nomenclature you want for it.  

The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in THAT territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate had no territory. It was a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be daft.  You are arguing for the pennies while the dollars escape you.  We both know what territory we are talking about.  Pick whatever nomenclature you want for it.
> 
> The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in THAT territory.
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> We both know what territory we are talking about.


Indeed, it did not belong to the Mandate. They had no authority to give it away.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate had no territory. It was a trustee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be daft.  You are arguing for the pennies while the dollars escape you.  We both know what territory we are talking about.  Pick whatever nomenclature you want for it.
> 
> The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in THAT territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> We both know what territory we are talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, it did not belong to the Mandate. They had no authority to give it away.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the Mandatory did not give anything away. You're whining about something that didn't occur. 

Indeed, you just like to whine. .


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, it did not belong to the Mandate. They had no authority to give it away.



They had every right to divide the old Ottoman territory into new States.  That's how ALL the States in the area were formed.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it did not belong to the Mandate. They had no authority to give it away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had every right to divide the old Ottoman territory into new States.  That's how ALL the States in the area were formed.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and the people of each state became the citizens of their state. A state belongs to its citizens. They are the sovereigns of their territory.


----------



## Shusha

The Tinmore Vortex strikes again.  So your last several posts are absolutely meaningless.  And we've come back full circle.

A State does belong to its citizens. The citizens are the sovereigns of their territory.  That includes the JEWISH citizens. 

"Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the legal right to *re-constitute* their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as had legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations. 


historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> The Tinmore Vortex strikes again.  So your last several posts are absolutely meaningless.  And we've come back full circle.
> 
> A State does belong to its citizens. The citizens are the sovereigns of their territory.  That includes the JEWISH citizens.
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the legal right to *re-constitute* their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as had legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.


Britain flopped in creating a Jewish National home and the UN flopped in creating a Jewish state. Neither of them had anything to do with the creation of Israel.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Tinmore Vortex strikes again.  So your last several posts are absolutely meaningless.  And we've come back full circle.
> 
> A State does belong to its citizens. The citizens are the sovereigns of their territory.  That includes the JEWISH citizens.
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the legal right to *re-constitute* their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as had legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Britain flopped in creating a Jewish National home and the UN flopped in creating a Jewish state. Neither of them had anything to do with the creation of Israel.
Click to expand...


Obviously incorrect. The purpose of the Mandate was to reconstitute the Jewish National Home. That happened. The Mandate was fulfilled. 

Your whining is for naught, except to make you feel better about your insensate Joooo hatreds.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Tinmore Vortex strikes again.  So your last several posts are absolutely meaningless.  And we've come back full circle.
> 
> A State does belong to its citizens. The citizens are the sovereigns of their territory.  That includes the JEWISH citizens.
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the legal right to *re-constitute* their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as had legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Britain flopped in creating a Jewish National home and the UN flopped in creating a Jewish state. Neither of them had anything to do with the creation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously incorrect. The purpose of the Mandate was to reconstitute the Jewish National Home. That happened. The Mandate was fulfilled.
> 
> Your whining is for naught, except to make you feel better about your insensate Joooo hatreds.
Click to expand...

The creation of Israel was a unilateral move by the Zionists. It had nothing to do with the Mandate or the UN.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Tinmore Vortex strikes again.  So your last several posts are absolutely meaningless.  And we've come back full circle.
> 
> A State does belong to its citizens. The citizens are the sovereigns of their territory.  That includes the JEWISH citizens.
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the legal right to *re-constitute* their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as had legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Britain flopped in creating a Jewish National home and the UN flopped in creating a Jewish state. Neither of them had anything to do with the creation of Israel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously incorrect. The purpose of the Mandate was to reconstitute the Jewish National Home. That happened. The Mandate was fulfilled.
> 
> Your whining is for naught, except to make you feel better about your insensate Joooo hatreds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move by the Zionists. It had nothing to do with the Mandate or the UN.
Click to expand...


The inability of the Islamists to create an Islamist state was their unilateral failure. 

Get a canoe and paddle down the de'Nile while crying a flood of crocodile tears. 

You do realize that all of your whining in this thread and every other thread you spam, was the reason why there was a specific thread created for your incessant whining.


----------



## Eloy

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.
Click to expand...

Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.


----------



## Hollie

Eloy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.
Click to expand...


Pompous blathering from the Internet gee-hadee.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> Britain flopped in creating a Jewish National home and the UN flopped in creating a Jewish state. Neither of them had anything to do with the creation of Israel.



Duh.  Neither had the ability to create a State.  That's why* I* didn't bring them up.  

The only reason you bring them up is because somehow, weirdly, you think that if you bring them up and prove that they were ineffective at doing something that they had no legal power to do, and actually failed to do what it was that they had no legal power to do, that Israel is just a figment of the world's imagination.  Its Tinmore Vortex at its finest.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Eloy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.
Click to expand...


Why do you say that?


----------



## Shusha

Eloy said:


> Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.



Eloy, you have said this, and many things like it before.  I am going to take you at face value and see you as an existential threat. 

This is what the Jewish people are fighting against -- a threat to our existence.


----------



## Shusha

P F Tinmore said:


> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move by the Zionists. It had nothing to do with the Mandate or the UN.



Oh, give me a break. 

Jewish National Home/Jewish State.  You know full well those words are included in both Mandate and UN documents.  What was it, magic?  Some sort of Jewish power which gives us the ability to put words in legal documents unilaterally, without the author's and signatories knowledge?  Bamn!  Abracadabra, after everything was drafted, read, signed and ratified, suddenly those words appeared?  Are you auditioning to help write J.K. Rowling's new book?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move by the Zionists. It had nothing to do with the Mandate or the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break.
> 
> Jewish National Home/Jewish State.  You know full well those words are included in both Mandate and UN documents.  What was it, magic?  Some sort of Jewish power which gives us the ability to put words in legal documents unilaterally, without the author's and signatories knowledge?  Bamn!  Abracadabra, after everything was drafted, read, signed and ratified, suddenly those words appeared?  Are you auditioning to help write J.K. Rowling's new book?
Click to expand...




Shusha said:


> Jewish National Home. You know full well those words are included in both Mandate and UN documents.


Indeed, and they both flopped.


----------



## Shusha

Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.

Let's go back to this:

"Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations. 

historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.


Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
Click to expand...


You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate. 

Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.

It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
Click to expand...

The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.

Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
Click to expand...


Tissue?


Give us your best cut and paste diatribe on the muhammedan colonists who invaded your invented "country of Pal'istan. 

Obviously, you believe Arab-Islamist invaders / colonists have an entitlement.


----------



## Shusha

And hey, we all know that human rights should only apply to majorities.  Jeez, the next thing you know women will want to vote or something.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
Click to expand...


The legitimacy came from the Jews themselves, and the recognition of their historical rights on that land.

You have a problem with the National Homeland for Jews. That's all.
Don't dance around it.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> 
> Give us your best cut and paste diatribe on the muhammedan colonists who invaded your invented "country of Pal'istan.
> 
> Obviously, you believe Arab-Islamist invaders / colonists have an entitlement.
Click to expand...

For hundreds of years there was no settler colonialism. During that time nobody made any claim to regain their lost land.

It looks like you are promoting a hoax.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
Click to expand...


Your 'foreign' card doesn't work. Everything 'Palestinian' is foreign to the land, it's Arab Muslim colonialism, Palestinians are still ruled by foreign Arabian royalty.

Everything about the term 'Palestinian' is synonymous with the continuation of colonialism, Arab or European whatever.
National Home for Jews is the antidote. And a good example for the many indigenous minorities living under Arab Muslim rule.


----------



## P F Tinmore

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your 'foreign' card doesn't work. Everything 'Palestinian' is foreign to the land, it's Arab Muslim colonialism, Palestinians are still ruled by foreign Arabian royalty.
> 
> Everything about the term 'Palestinian' is synonymous with the continuation of colonialism, Arab or European whatever.
> National Home for Jews is the antidote. And a good example for the many indigenous minorities living under Arab Muslim rule.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't have links to all that crap?

I didn't think so.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> 
> Give us your best cut and paste diatribe on the muhammedan colonists who invaded your invented "country of Pal'istan.
> 
> Obviously, you believe Arab-Islamist invaders / colonists have an entitlement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For hundreds of years there was no settler colonialism. During that time nobody made any claim to regain their lost land.
> 
> It looks like you are promoting a hoax.
Click to expand...


The hoax is yours. The history of your Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land is one of Turkish Islamist and Arab-Islamist invasion and colonialism. For hundreds of years, there certainly was settler colonialism and it was Arab-Islamist. 

I can attribute your refusal to acccept that not merely as ignorance; it has been explained to you in excruciating detail, but also as strident and willful denial on your part to accept reality.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your 'foreign' card doesn't work. Everything 'Palestinian' is foreign to the land, it's Arab Muslim colonialism, Palestinians are still ruled by foreign Arabian royalty.
> 
> Everything about the term 'Palestinian' is synonymous with the continuation of colonialism, Arab or European whatever.
> National Home for Jews is the antidote. And a good example for the many indigenous minorities living under Arab Muslim rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have links to all that crap?
> 
> I didn't think so.
Click to expand...


I need a link to what, that 'Palestinian' = Jews have no right to this land?


Tell us who were the nations that voted against it?


----------



## montelatici

Orwellian for sure.  Self described colonists, the Zionist Jews from Europe, are the colonized while the colonized native people are the colonized according to Rylah, hilarious.  You couldn't make this stuff up.


----------



## Hollie

montelatici said:


> Orwellian for sure.  Self described colonists, the Zionist Jews from Europe, are the colonized while the colonized native people are the colonized according to Rylah, hilarious.  You couldn't make this stuff up.



It really is comical how you attempt to portray the Turkish invaders / colonists, the European xtian invaders / colonists and the Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese squatters / land grabbers as the "native people". 

Only _The Monty_ can make that stuff up.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> 
> Give us your best cut and paste diatribe on the muhammedan colonists who invaded your invented "country of Pal'istan.
> 
> Obviously, you believe Arab-Islamist invaders / colonists have an entitlement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For hundreds of years there was no settler colonialism. During that time nobody made any claim to regain their lost land.
> 
> It looks like you are promoting a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The hoax is yours. The history of your Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land is one of Turkish Islamist and Arab-Islamist invasion and colonialism. For hundreds of years, there certainly was settler colonialism and it was Arab-Islamist.
> 
> I can attribute your refusal to acccept that not merely as ignorance; it has been explained to you in excruciating detail, but also as strident and willful denial on your part to accept reality.
Click to expand...

So, how many people attempted to reclaim their land in the last few hundred years?

My understanding it that it is none.


----------



## Eloy

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
Click to expand...

What I mean is that the democracies such as the European Union will shun or boycott Israel when its true apartheid nature is understood. 

When the USA was the leading democracy, other advanced countries were in its orbit. Because the Israel Lobby is so strong in the United States, I believe European democracies and Australia were led into the trap of treating Israel as a free and democratic state, one like the rest of us. Political cover was provided for Israel by the USA and the Europeans did not kick up a fuss when the Palestinian civilians were being massacred in Gaza or Jewish settlements continued to steal Palestinian land in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. 

The USA will never go against its Jewish protegé but sometime (I do not know when) the other democracies which people call the "West" nowadays, will act independently and quit looking to America for permission to hold contrary policies. With the election of Donald Trump, this development will be sped up. Freed from America, the Free World will not be afraid to face up to the apartheid nature of Zionism and its creation, the Jewish State of Israel (including Judea and Sumeria as well as Gaza). Moral support for the Israeli Occupation of Palestine, the massacres of the people in Gaza and the restriction of Muslims to reservations in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, will be replaced by a resolve to cut all ties with the Jewish state and leave it to the USA alone to back it up. I am positive the Americans feel capable enough to do that. 

But this idea of Apartheid Israel as a Jewish satellite of the USA is not sustainable in the long run. The Americans will eventually come to their senses. In any event, the rest of us will stop the pretense that Israel is a normal country and that will be that.


----------



## Eloy

Shusha said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy, you have said this, and many things like it before.  I am going to take you at face value and see you as an existential threat.
> 
> This is what the Jewish people are fighting against -- a threat to our existence.
Click to expand...

Please read Post #756 to understand that the threat to the Jewish State of Israel comes from within. Yes, it is just like the movie on the horror channel when the telephone operator says, "That call comes from inside the house."


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> 
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tissue?
> 
> 
> Give us your best cut and paste diatribe on the muhammedan colonists who invaded your invented "country of Pal'istan.
> 
> Obviously, you believe Arab-Islamist invaders / colonists have an entitlement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For hundreds of years there was no settler colonialism. During that time nobody made any claim to regain their lost land.
> 
> It looks like you are promoting a hoax.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The hoax is yours. The history of your Magical Kingdom of Disney Pally'land is one of Turkish Islamist and Arab-Islamist invasion and colonialism. For hundreds of years, there certainly was settler colonialism and it was Arab-Islamist.
> 
> I can attribute your refusal to acccept that not merely as ignorance; it has been explained to you in excruciating detail, but also as strident and willful denial on your part to accept reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, how many people attempted to reclaim their land in the last few hundred years?
> 
> My understanding it that it is none.
Click to expand...


The Arab-Islamist invades / colonizers have not attempted to reclaim the land the land they are still occupying.


----------



## Hollie

Eloy said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you won't look it up. The one thing that is consistent about Zionists is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious from the guy who keeps saying "Israel has no land", despite mountains of evidence against that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, show me one piece of evidence that Israel legally acquired any land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What I mean is that the democracies such as the European Union will shun or boycott Israel when its true apartheid nature is understood.
> 
> When the USA was the leading democracy, other advanced countries were in its orbit. Because the Israel Lobby is so strong in the United States, I believe European democracies and Australia were led into the trap of treating Israel as a free and democratic state, one like the rest of us. Political cover was provided for Israel by the USA and the Europeans did not kick up a fuss when the Palestinian civilians were being massacred in Gaza or Jewish settlements continued to steal Palestinian land in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.
> 
> The USA will never go against its Jewish protegé but sometime (I do not know when) the other democracies which people call the "West" nowadays, will act independently and quit looking to America for permission to hold contrary policies. With the election of Donald Trump, this development will be sped up. Freed from America, the Free World will not be afraid to face up to the apartheid nature of Zionism and its creation, the Jewish State of Israel (including Judea and Sumeria as well as Gaza). Moral support for the Israeli Occupation of Palestine, the massacres of the people in Gaza and the restriction of Muslims to reservations in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, will be replaced by a resolve to cut all ties with the Jewish state and leave it to the USA alone to back it up. I am positive the Americans feel capable enough to do that.
> 
> But this idea of Apartheid Israel as a Jewish satellite of the USA is not sustainable in the long run. The Americans will eventually come to their senses. In any event, the rest of us will stop the pretense that Israel is a normal country and that will be that.
Click to expand...


I'm guessing you're hoping to suggest that Islamist theocratic totalitarianism represents a "normal country".


----------



## Challenger

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, it did not belong to the Mandate. They had no authority to give it away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They had every right to divide the old Ottoman territory into new States.  That's how ALL the States in the area were formed.
Click to expand...

...except Zionist Israel


----------



## Challenger

Shusha said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not to worry; Israel, including its occupation of Palestinian Territories, is on borrowed time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy, you have said this, and many things like it before.  I am going to take you at face value and see you as an existential threat.
> 
> This is what the Jewish people are fighting against -- a threat to our existence.
Click to expand...

Jewish people are doing just fine in the USA, the UK, France and many other countries and they're not fighting for their existance, the only people having problems are the racist Zionist settler colonists in their Zionist paradise. That's what's on borrowed time, depite all the Hasbara asttempts to conflate Judaism with Zionism.


----------



## Challenger

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move by the Zionists. It had nothing to do with the Mandate or the UN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, give me a break.
> 
> Jewish National Home/Jewish State.  You know full well those words are included in both Mandate and UN documents.  What was it, magic?  Some sort of Jewish power which gives us the ability to put words in legal documents unilaterally, without the author's and signatories knowledge?  Bamn!  Abracadabra, after everything was drafted, read, signed and ratified, suddenly those words appeared?  Are you auditioning to help write J.K. Rowling's new book?
Click to expand...

A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.


----------



## Shusha

Challenger said:


> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.



Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.  

That's why terminology like THIS was used:

_Jewish State
Government of each State
reconstituting their national home
Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
(Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_

(And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)


That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:

_I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
  (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....

If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._


That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:

_The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine. 

It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._


And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:

_The General Assembly,
Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._





Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.


----------



## rylah

P F Tinmore said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Flopped how?  Um.  You ARE aware that Israel is actually a State, right?  In every possible sense of the word.
> 
> Let's go back to this:
> 
> "Jewish National Homeland". The Jewish people acquired the right to re-constitute their national homeland in the territory of Mandate Palestine. They were one of the peoples in the Mandate territory and as such as a legal right to hold sovereignty. Indeed, they were the only peoples to acquire rights in that specific territory. Further, they realized that right, as required by the Mandate, by developing the ability to stand alone, create a government. And further, that right was recognized by the international community by acceptance into the UN and enter into diplomatic relations with other sovereign nations.
> 
> historical indigenous right + realization + recognition. Done deal. Get on with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your 'foreign' card doesn't work. Everything 'Palestinian' is foreign to the land, it's Arab Muslim colonialism, Palestinians are still ruled by foreign Arabian royalty.
> 
> Everything about the term 'Palestinian' is synonymous with the continuation of colonialism, Arab or European whatever.
> National Home for Jews is the antidote. And a good example for the many indigenous minorities living under Arab Muslim rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have links to all that crap?
> 
> I didn't think so.
Click to expand...


Palestinian = Kingdom of Syria

_"1 . We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. "

"3. In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection. "_
First Palestinian Arab Congress

*Who was the king of Syria and Iraq?*






*Faisal I bin Hussein bin Ali al-Hashimi*, (Arabic: فيصل بن الحسين بن علي الهاشمي‎‎, _Fayṣal al-Awwal ibn al-Ḥusayn ibn ‘Alī al-Hāshimī_; 20 May 1885[1][2][5] – 8 September 1933) was King of the Arab Kingdom of Syria or Greater Syria in 1920, and was King of Iraq from 23 August 1921 to 1933. He was a member of the Hashemite dynasty.

*Who rules the eastern part of Palestine?*






*Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein* (Arabic: عبد الله الثاني بن الحسين‎‎, _ʿAbdullāh aṯ-ṯānī ibn Al-Ḥusayn_, born 30 January 1962) has been king of Jordan since the 1999 death of his father, King Hussein. According to Abdullah, he is a 41st-generation direct descendant of Muhammad as he belongs to the Hashemite family—who have ruled Jordan since 1921.

*Who is the most famous Palestinian leader, also a Hashemite?





*
Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa(/ˈærəˌfæt, ˈɑːrəˌfɑːt/;[2] Arabic: محمد ياسر عبد الرحمن عبد الرؤوف عرفات‎‎‎; 24 August 1929 – 11 November 2004), popularly known as Yasser Arafat(Arabic: ياسر عرفات‎‎ , _Yāsir `Arafāt_) or by his kunya Abu Ammar (Arabic: أبو عمار‎‎ , _'Abū `Ammār_), was a Palestinian political leader. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The majority of Palestinian key figures are of Arabian royalty.




OR did You need a link to show that Jews too have rights?


----------



## Eloy

Shusha said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
Click to expand...

Your post is sprawling all over the place and lacks concise meaning. It is impossible to make sense of it. Sorry.


----------



## montelatici

Shusha said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
Click to expand...



Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.



"The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."

The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your 'foreign' card doesn't work. Everything 'Palestinian' is foreign to the land, it's Arab Muslim colonialism, Palestinians are still ruled by foreign Arabian royalty.
> 
> Everything about the term 'Palestinian' is synonymous with the continuation of colonialism, Arab or European whatever.
> National Home for Jews is the antidote. And a good example for the many indigenous minorities living under Arab Muslim rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have links to all that crap?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian = Kingdom of Syria
> 
> _"1 . We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. "
> 
> "3. In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection. "_
> First Palestinian Arab Congress
> 
> *Who was the king of Syria and Iraq?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Faisal I bin Hussein bin Ali al-Hashimi*, (Arabic: فيصل بن الحسين بن علي الهاشمي‎‎, _Fayṣal al-Awwal ibn al-Ḥusayn ibn ‘Alī al-Hāshimī_; 20 May 1885[1][2][5] – 8 September 1933) was King of the Arab Kingdom of Syria or Greater Syria in 1920, and was King of Iraq from 23 August 1921 to 1933. He was a member of the Hashemite dynasty.
> 
> *Who rules the eastern part of Palestine?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein* (Arabic: عبد الله الثاني بن الحسين‎‎, _ʿAbdullāh aṯ-ṯānī ibn Al-Ḥusayn_, born 30 January 1962) has been king of Jordan since the 1999 death of his father, King Hussein. According to Abdullah, he is a 41st-generation direct descendant of Muhammad as he belongs to the Hashemite family—who have ruled Jordan since 1921.
> 
> *Who is the most famous Palestinian leader, also a Hashemite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa(/ˈærəˌfæt, ˈɑːrəˌfɑːt/;[2] Arabic: محمد ياسر عبد الرحمن عبد الرؤوف عرفات‎‎‎; 24 August 1929 – 11 November 2004), popularly known as Yasser Arafat(Arabic: ياسر عرفات‎‎ , _Yāsir `Arafāt_) or by his kunya Abu Ammar (Arabic: أبو عمار‎‎ , _'Abū `Ammār_), was a Palestinian political leader.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The majority of Palestinian key figures are of Arabian royalty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OR did You need a link to show that Jews too have rights?
Click to expand...


And don't forget that the "George Washington" of the Palestinians, Arafart, was actually born in Egypt.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
Click to expand...


The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.


----------



## Eloy

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
Click to expand...

"*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Eloy said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*
Click to expand...


How many countries do the Arabs need?  Too greedy.


----------



## Eloy

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries do the Arabs need?  Too greedy.
Click to expand...

Europeans have more countries than Arabs and so do Latin Americans. It is a feature of demographics, not greed.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I have heard all of that crap before.
> The creation of Israel was a unilateral move with no legitimacy from anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have heard all that crap before and you choose to ignore history. The creation of Israel was the fulfillment of the Mandate.
> 
> Your insensate anger is a reflection of Islamist ideology: revulsion for Jews  and the ability of the Jewish people to define their future via self-determination.
> 
> It is Arab incompetence and their inability form a functioning government that causes you such angst.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The government of Israel was created by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization against he wishes of the vast majority of the people. Of the 37 people who signed the declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of settlers. They were all foreign colonial settlers.
> 
> Israel is a foreign colonial power occupying Palestine. It is still rejected by a vast majority of the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your 'foreign' card doesn't work. Everything 'Palestinian' is foreign to the land, it's Arab Muslim colonialism, Palestinians are still ruled by foreign Arabian royalty.
> 
> Everything about the term 'Palestinian' is synonymous with the continuation of colonialism, Arab or European whatever.
> National Home for Jews is the antidote. And a good example for the many indigenous minorities living under Arab Muslim rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wouldn't have links to all that crap?
> 
> I didn't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Palestinian = Kingdom of Syria
> 
> _"1 . We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. "
> 
> "3. In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection. "_
> First Palestinian Arab Congress
> 
> *Who was the king of Syria and Iraq?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Faisal I bin Hussein bin Ali al-Hashimi*, (Arabic: فيصل بن الحسين بن علي الهاشمي‎‎, _Fayṣal al-Awwal ibn al-Ḥusayn ibn ‘Alī al-Hāshimī_; 20 May 1885[1][2][5] – 8 September 1933) was King of the Arab Kingdom of Syria or Greater Syria in 1920, and was King of Iraq from 23 August 1921 to 1933. He was a member of the Hashemite dynasty.
> 
> *Who rules the eastern part of Palestine?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein* (Arabic: عبد الله الثاني بن الحسين‎‎, _ʿAbdullāh aṯ-ṯānī ibn Al-Ḥusayn_, born 30 January 1962) has been king of Jordan since the 1999 death of his father, King Hussein. According to Abdullah, he is a 41st-generation direct descendant of Muhammad as he belongs to the Hashemite family—who have ruled Jordan since 1921.
> 
> *Who is the most famous Palestinian leader, also a Hashemite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa(/ˈærəˌfæt, ˈɑːrəˌfɑːt/;[2] Arabic: محمد ياسر عبد الرحمن عبد الرؤوف عرفات‎‎‎; 24 August 1929 – 11 November 2004), popularly known as Yasser Arafat(Arabic: ياسر عرفات‎‎ , _Yāsir `Arafāt_) or by his kunya Abu Ammar (Arabic: أبو عمار‎‎ , _'Abū `Ammār_), was a Palestinian political leader.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The majority of Palestinian key figures are of Arabian royalty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OR did You need a link to show that Jews too have rights?
Click to expand...


You need a history lesson.  The Arab Kingdom of Syria never included Palestine.  It included Trans-Jordania where the royal family of the Arab Kingdom of Syria fled to after the French occupied Damascus.

There is no "Arab royalty" associated with Arafat you idiot.  Arafat's father was a poor Palestinian who immigrated to Egypt but was unsuccessful and returned to Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

Eloy said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries do the Arabs need?  Too greedy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Europeans have more countries than Arabs and so do Latin Americans. It is a feature of demographics, not greed.
Click to expand...


Pretty clueless. Your attempt at comparison fails due to the very demographics you don't understand. Europeans are not a virtually monolithic culture of forced religion under theocratic totalitarianism that so often defines your Islamic paradises.

Religion as practiced in Western cultures is largely a personal and private matter. Religion is not forced by government Mandate and it is not dragged into the public arena. In Western style democracy, you can believe (or not) as you wish without fear of Islamic goon squads threatening you with death or conversion to Islamism and you can expect that belief to be honored (even if grudgingly) and protected by law. 

I do wish people like you would spend some time in your fascist Islamic paradises to learn of the benefits of western society as opposed to the horrors of third world Islamist backwaters.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Shusha said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
Click to expand...

Britain's stupid plan flopped, so...


Shusha said:


> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:


They proposed partition. (two state solution) And that stupid plan flopped too.



Shusha said:


> Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable.


Britain left Palestine accomplishing nothing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain's stupid plan flopped, so...
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They proposed partition. (two state solution) And that stupid plan flopped too.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain left Palestine accomplishing nothing.
Click to expand...


Nothing except their "Mandate": to reestablish the Jewish National Home.

Still holding a grudge, obviously. The Zionistas'™ managed to defend that home in spite of attacking Islamist armies and attacks by your Islamist terrorist heroes.

How does it feel to be flailing your Pom Poms for Arab-islamist failure, ineptitude and incompetence?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain's stupid plan flopped, so...
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They proposed partition. (two state solution) And that stupid plan flopped too.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain left Palestine accomplishing nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing except their "Mandate": to reestablish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Still holding a grudge, obviously. The Zionistas'™ managed to defend that home in spite of attacking Islamist armies and attacks by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> How does it feel to be flailing your Pom Poms for Arab-islamist failure, ineptitude and incompetence?
Click to expand...

The Mandate flopped and had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. Israel was created by foreigners in Palestine.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain's stupid plan flopped, so...
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They proposed partition. (two state solution) And that stupid plan flopped too.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain left Palestine accomplishing nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing except their "Mandate": to reestablish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Still holding a grudge, obviously. The Zionistas'™ managed to defend that home in spite of attacking Islamist armies and attacks by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> How does it feel to be flailing your Pom Poms for Arab-islamist failure, ineptitude and incompetence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate flopped and had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. Israel was created by foreigners in Palestine.
Click to expand...


One of the goals of the Mandate was to re establish the Jewish National Home. 

Success. 



Have you considered that your Magical Kingdom of Disney Islam'istan, was created by foreignen Turks, Arabs and European Christian Crusaders?

Failure.


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain's stupid plan flopped, so...
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They proposed partition. (two state solution) And that stupid plan flopped too.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain left Palestine accomplishing nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing except their "Mandate": to reestablish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Still holding a grudge, obviously. The Zionistas'™ managed to defend that home in spite of attacking Islamist armies and attacks by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> How does it feel to be flailing your Pom Poms for Arab-islamist failure, ineptitude and incompetence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate flopped and had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. Israel was created by foreigners in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of the goals of the Mandate was to re establish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Success.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered that your Magical Kingdom of Disney Islam'istan, was created by foreignen Turks, Arabs and European Christian Crusaders?
> 
> Failure.
Click to expand...

Not so. Israel went into 1948 with nothing.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> 
> 
> Britain's stupid plan flopped, so...
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They proposed partition. (two state solution) And that stupid plan flopped too.
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain left Palestine accomplishing nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing except their "Mandate": to reestablish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Still holding a grudge, obviously. The Zionistas'™ managed to defend that home in spite of attacking Islamist armies and attacks by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> How does it feel to be flailing your Pom Poms for Arab-islamist failure, ineptitude and incompetence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate flopped and had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. Israel was created by foreigners in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of the goals of the Mandate was to re establish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Success.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered that your Magical Kingdom of Disney Islam'istan, was created by foreignen Turks, Arabs and European Christian Crusaders?
> 
> Failure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Israel went into 1948 with nothing.
Click to expand...


Nothing except a national identity and success against the invading muhammedan hordes. 

Arabs-Moslems have only a welfare fraud system and a legacy of failure to define themselves. 

Alia Akbar?


----------



## P F Tinmore

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Britain's stupid plan flopped, so...
> They proposed partition. (two state solution) And that stupid plan flopped too.
> 
> Britain left Palestine accomplishing nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing except their "Mandate": to reestablish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Still holding a grudge, obviously. The Zionistas'™ managed to defend that home in spite of attacking Islamist armies and attacks by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> How does it feel to be flailing your Pom Poms for Arab-islamist failure, ineptitude and incompetence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Mandate flopped and had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. Israel was created by foreigners in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of the goals of the Mandate was to re establish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Success.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered that your Magical Kingdom of Disney Islam'istan, was created by foreignen Turks, Arabs and European Christian Crusaders?
> 
> Failure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Israel went into 1948 with nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing except a national identity and success against the invading muhammedan hordes.
> 
> Arabs-Moslems have only a welfare fraud system and a legacy of failure to define themselves.
> 
> Alia Akbar?
Click to expand...

You have Israel's bullshit talking points down pat.

Good girl.


----------



## Hollie

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing except their "Mandate": to reestablish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Still holding a grudge, obviously. The Zionistas'™ managed to defend that home in spite of attacking Islamist armies and attacks by your Islamist terrorist heroes.
> 
> How does it feel to be flailing your Pom Poms for Arab-islamist failure, ineptitude and incompetence?
> 
> 
> 
> The Mandate flopped and had nothing to do with the creation of Israel. Israel was created by foreigners in Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One of the goals of the Mandate was to re establish the Jewish National Home.
> 
> Success.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered that your Magical Kingdom of Disney Islam'istan, was created by foreignen Turks, Arabs and European Christian Crusaders?
> 
> Failure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so. Israel went into 1948 with nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing except a national identity and success against the invading muhammedan hordes.
> 
> Arabs-Moslems have only a welfare fraud system and a legacy of failure to define themselves.
> 
> Alia Akbar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have Israel's bullshit talking points down pat.
> 
> Good girl.
Click to expand...


You have cut and pasted your usual slogans.

Good muhammud.


----------



## rylah

Who was Sayed *Arafat* bin Yusef *al-Qudwa *?


----------



## Challenger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A "national home" *in* Palestine, is not the same thing as a "Jewish state" in Palestine; that was never the intention of the LoN or the UN; that was pure Zionist settler colonialism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries do the Arabs need?  Too greedy.
Click to expand...


The palestinians just want to live in theirs, that's not greedy. The greed came from the Zionist settler colonists; not content with living as good neighbours they stole what wan't theirs to begin with and drove out the native inhabitants.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Who was Sayed *Arafat* bin Yusef *al-Qudwa *?



Who cares.  Arafat's father couldn't support his family, he was about as royal as Donald Duck.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sure, so when everyone was talking about a Jewish National Home between 1917 and 1949, and all those legal documents were being created, they envisioned an Arab Palestinian State, under Arab sovereignty, with solely Arab self-determination in which it was permissible for Jews to simply reside.
> 
> That's why terminology like THIS was used:
> 
> _Jewish State
> Government of each State
> reconstituting their national home
> Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for the purpose of advising ... in economic, social and other matters
> (Jewish agency) shall take steps (toward) the establishment of the Jewish national home
> Jewish agency ... to construct or operate any public works, services, utilities and to develop any natural resources in the county_
> 
> (And please also note the ABSENCE of this kind of language with respect to the Arab population in some of these documents)
> 
> 
> That's why speeches like this were made in the US Congress:
> 
> _I want to make at this time, Mr. Speaker and gentlemen of the House, my attitude and views upon the Arab question in Palestine very clear and emphatic. I am in favor of carrying out one of the three following policies, to be preferred in the order in which they are named:
> (1) That the Arabs shall be permitted to remain in Palestine under Jewish government and domination, and with their civil and religious rights guaranteed to them through the British mandate and under terms of the Balfour declaration....
> 
> If this is not a condensed and at the same time a complete bill of rights both for the Arabs of Palestine and for the Jews who intend to remain in their present homelands outside of Palestine, I have never read or seen one._
> 
> 
> That's why the White Paper of 1939 was forced to attempt to devise an alternative policy:
> 
> _The Royal Commission and previous commissions of Enquiry have drawn attention to the ambiguity of certain expressions in the Mandate, such as the expression `a national home for the Jewish people', and they have found in this ambiguity and the resulting uncertainty as to the objectives of policy a fundamental cause of unrest and hostility between Arabs and Jews. His Majesty's Government are convinced that in the interests of the peace and well being of the whole people of Palestine a clear definition of policy and objectives is essential. The proposal of partition recommended by the Royal Commission would have afforded such clarity, but the establishment of self supporting independent Arab and Jewish States within Palestine has been found to be impracticable. It has therefore been necessary for His Majesty's Government to devise *an alternative policy* which will, consistent with their obligations to Arabs and Jews, meet the needs of the situation in Palestine.
> 
> It has been urged that the expression "a national home for the Jewish people" offered a prospect that Palestine might in due course become a Jewish State or Commonwealth. His Majesty's Government do not wish to contest the view, which was expressed by the Royal Commission, that the Zionist leaders at the time of the issue of the Balfour Declaration recognised that an ultimate Jewish State was not precluded by the terms of the Declaration._
> 
> 
> And finally, we have this little gem written by the UN:
> 
> _The General Assembly,
> Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
> 1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
> 2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your claim that there was never an intent to create an independent, self-governing, self-determining Jewish State as a homeland for the Jewish people in the territory by right of their historical connection is blatantly disingenuous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries do the Arabs need?  Too greedy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestinians just want to live in theirs, that's not greedy. The greed came from the Zionist settler colonists; not content with living as good neighbours they stole what wan't theirs to begin with and drove out the native inhabitants.
Click to expand...


You extreme Jew haters really do live in an alternate reality.

The Hamas charter is not about the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" "wanting to live in theirs". The Hamas charter is a virulent statement of Islamic fascism and Islamist colonialism. 

Study your koranology lessons and learn the islamo-definition of _waqf._


----------



## Challenger

Hollie said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  In 1922 the Colonial Office made this statement to calm the fears of the native people.
> 
> 
> 
> "The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain sections of the population. After consultation with the High Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine, which has been for some time in England, and it states the further conclusions which have since been reached............statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. *Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. *They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."
> 
> The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries do the Arabs need?  Too greedy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestinians just want to live in theirs, that's not greedy. The greed came from the Zionist settler colonists; not content with living as good neighbours they stole what wan't theirs to begin with and drove out the native inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You extreme Jew haters really do live in an alternate reality.
> 
> The Hamas charter is not about the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" "wanting to live in theirs". The Hamas charter is a virulent statement of Islamic fascism and Islamist colonialism.
> 
> Study your koranology lessons and learn the islamo-definition of _waqf._
Click to expand...

*sigh* Someone really needs to catch up with current events and stop clinging to a defunct document cobbled together 29 years ago during an uprising of an occupied and disposessed native population, sick and tired of 30 years of brutal Zionist rule. Still that's the sort of hollow post we expect from Hollie; nothing of substance, just venom and vitriol.


----------



## Hollie

Challenger said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "Arabic population, language, or culture" is in no danger of "disappearance."  They have 22 countries.
> 
> 
> 
> "*Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many countries do the Arabs need?  Too greedy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The palestinians just want to live in theirs, that's not greedy. The greed came from the Zionist settler colonists; not content with living as good neighbours they stole what wan't theirs to begin with and drove out the native inhabitants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You extreme Jew haters really do live in an alternate reality.
> 
> The Hamas charter is not about the Arabs-Moslems masquerading as "Pal'istanians" "wanting to live in theirs". The Hamas charter is a virulent statement of Islamic fascism and Islamist colonialism.
> 
> Study your koranology lessons and learn the islamo-definition of _waqf._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *sigh* Someone really needs to catch up with current events and stop clinging to a defunct document cobbled together 29 years ago during an uprising of an occupied and disposessed native population, sick and tired of 30 years of brutal Zionist rule. Still that's the sort of hollow post we expect from Hollie; nothing of substance, just venom and vitriol.
Click to expand...


How interesting that the extreme Jew hater has been assigned the role of Head Spokesbeard in Charge for the Hamas Ministry of Propaganda. Gee whiz. Such a weighty burden you bear.

But, all seriousness aside, the fact is, the Hamas charter has never been abandoned by your Islamic terrorist heroes and more importantly, actions speak with the utmost clarity. In both words and actions, those of us not in thrall to your Islamic terrorist heroes can see that the Hamas charter is still a working ideology.


----------



## rylah

Ok for Arafat family...or the Qudwa clan, aka al- Qudwa al-Husseini:
_
Born Abdel-Rahman Abdel-Raouf Arafat *al-Qudwa al-Husseini*. His date and place of birth are disputed; while he claims to have been born August 4, 1929, in Jerusalem, a birth certificate gives the date as August 24, 1929, in Cairo, Egypt. One of seven children of a wealthy merchant, Arafat is related on his mother�s side to the Husseini family, a prominent Sunni Muslim family in Jerusalem._
_Abdel-Rahman Abdel-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini

_






_"Husseinis are primarily found in the Arab world, South Asia, Iran and Iraq. Because of their lineage, the Husseini family is considered one to be respected, honored and are given the title of Sayyid. This title represents a person who is a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad and his grandson Husain ibn Ali. This title is normally used by the shia sector."_

_House of Al-Qudwa family members were prominent figures since the seventeenth century. The family traces its origins to two brothers, Sayed Mohammad bin Yusef al-Qudwa and Sayed Arafat bin Yusef al-Qudwa (the first), who settled in Gaza in 1658 AD. They had moved from Aleppo (Arabic: حلب‎‎), Syria where the family was also known as "al-Nabhani" and where branches still exist in that city till today, and known as "al-Nabhani al-Qudwa al-Hussieni" since 1200 AD. The family very quickly established itself as notables in Gaza through extensive endowments made by Sayed Mohammad bin Arafat al-Qudwa around 1688 AD, and then later by his descendants. The Qudwas were always known as notables by belonging to the Ashraf class, the highest hereditary title of nobility to the highest social/political class in the Muslim World; also known in pre-modern society as the Hashemites- belonging to the Quraish tribe, Hashim branch/Al-Hussieni line (Al-Hussien is the second son of Sayedah Fatimah daughter of prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali the Fourth Caliph in Islam; both are Hashimites). A Hashemite is the Latinate version of the (Arabic: هاشمي, transliteration: Hāšimī) and traditionally refers to those belonging to the Banu Hashim, or "clan of Hashim", a clan within the larger Quraish tribe._
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Mohammed Amin al-Husseini* (Arabic: محمد أمين الحسيني‎‎;[5] c. 1897[6][7] – 4 July 1974) was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader in Mandatory Palestine.[8]

Al-Husseini was the scion of a family of Jerusalemite notables,[9] who trace their origins to the eponymous grandson of Muhammad.[10] After receiving an education in Islamic, Ottoman, and Catholic schools, he went on to serve in the Ottoman army in World War I. At war's end he stationed himself in Damascus as a supporter of the Arab Kingdom of Syria.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> Ok for Arafat family...or the Qudwa clan, aka al- Qudwa al-Husseini:
> _
> Born Abdel-Rahman Abdel-Raouf Arafat *al-Qudwa al-Husseini*. His date and place of birth are disputed; while he claims to have been born August 4, 1929, in Jerusalem, a birth certificate gives the date as August 24, 1929, in Cairo, Egypt. One of seven children of a wealthy merchant, Arafat is related on his mother�s side to the Husseini family, a prominent Sunni Muslim family in Jerusalem.
> Abdel-Rahman Abdel-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Husseinis are primarily found in the Arab world, South Asia, Iran and Iraq. Because of their lineage, the Husseini family is considered one to be respected, honored and are given the title of Sayyid. This title represents a person who is a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad and his grandson Husain ibn Ali. This title is normally used by the shia sector."_
> 
> _House of Al-Qudwa family members were prominent figures since the seventeenth century. The family traces its origins to two brothers, Sayed Mohammad bin Yusef al-Qudwa and Sayed Arafat bin Yusef al-Qudwa (the first), who settled in Gaza in 1658 AD. They had moved from Aleppo (Arabic: حلب‎‎), Syria where the family was also known as "al-Nabhani" and where branches still exist in that city till today, and known as "al-Nabhani al-Qudwa al-Hussieni" since 1200 AD. The family very quickly established itself as notables in Gaza through extensive endowments made by Sayed Mohammad bin Arafat al-Qudwa around 1688 AD, and then later by his descendants. The Qudwas were always known as notables by belonging to the Ashraf class, the highest hereditary title of nobility to the highest social/political class in the Muslim World; also known in pre-modern society as the Hashemites- belonging to the Quraish tribe, Hashim branch/Al-Hussieni line (Al-Hussien is the second son of Sayedah Fatimah daughter of prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali the Fourth Caliph in Islam; both are Hashimites). A Hashemite is the Latinate version of the (Arabic: هاشمي, transliteration: Hāšimī) and traditionally refers to those belonging to the Banu Hashim, or "clan of Hashim", a clan within the larger Quraish tribe._
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mohammed Amin al-Husseini* (Arabic: محمد أمين الحسيني‎‎;[5] c. 1897[6][7] – 4 July 1974) was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader in Mandatory Palestine.[8]
> 
> Al-Husseini was the scion of a family of Jerusalemite notables,[9] who trace their origins to the eponymous grandson of Muhammad.[10] After receiving an education in Islamic, Ottoman, and Catholic schools, he went on to serve in the Ottoman army in World War I. At war's end he stationed himself in Damascus as a supporter of the Arab Kingdom of Syria.



No relation to Husseini.  Father was an usuccessful merchant.  And the coup de grace to your propaganda, from Time magazine, not from fiction sites.

"Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat Al Qudua Al Husseini, on Aug. 24, 1929 in Cairo, where his father, a textile merchant from Gaza, had moved the family two years before. I*n his early years, Arafat claimed to be a member of the prominent al-Husseini clan of Jerusalem, the family of Hajj Amin Al Husseini, then the Mufti of Palestine, but that was also a fantasy...."

Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com*


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok for Arafat family...or the Qudwa clan, aka al- Qudwa al-Husseini:
> _
> Born Abdel-Rahman Abdel-Raouf Arafat *al-Qudwa al-Husseini*. His date and place of birth are disputed; while he claims to have been born August 4, 1929, in Jerusalem, a birth certificate gives the date as August 24, 1929, in Cairo, Egypt. One of seven children of a wealthy merchant, Arafat is related on his mother�s side to the Husseini family, a prominent Sunni Muslim family in Jerusalem.
> Abdel-Rahman Abdel-Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Husseinis are primarily found in the Arab world, South Asia, Iran and Iraq. Because of their lineage, the Husseini family is considered one to be respected, honored and are given the title of Sayyid. This title represents a person who is a direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad and his grandson Husain ibn Ali. This title is normally used by the shia sector."_
> 
> _House of Al-Qudwa family members were prominent figures since the seventeenth century. The family traces its origins to two brothers, Sayed Mohammad bin Yusef al-Qudwa and Sayed Arafat bin Yusef al-Qudwa (the first), who settled in Gaza in 1658 AD. They had moved from Aleppo (Arabic: حلب‎‎), Syria where the family was also known as "al-Nabhani" and where branches still exist in that city till today, and known as "al-Nabhani al-Qudwa al-Hussieni" since 1200 AD. The family very quickly established itself as notables in Gaza through extensive endowments made by Sayed Mohammad bin Arafat al-Qudwa around 1688 AD, and then later by his descendants. The Qudwas were always known as notables by belonging to the Ashraf class, the highest hereditary title of nobility to the highest social/political class in the Muslim World; also known in pre-modern society as the Hashemites- belonging to the Quraish tribe, Hashim branch/Al-Hussieni line (Al-Hussien is the second son of Sayedah Fatimah daughter of prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali the Fourth Caliph in Islam; both are Hashimites). A Hashemite is the Latinate version of the (Arabic: هاشمي, transliteration: Hāšimī) and traditionally refers to those belonging to the Banu Hashim, or "clan of Hashim", a clan within the larger Quraish tribe._
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Mohammed Amin al-Husseini* (Arabic: محمد أمين الحسيني‎‎;[5] c. 1897[6][7] – 4 July 1974) was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader in Mandatory Palestine.[8]
> 
> Al-Husseini was the scion of a family of Jerusalemite notables,[9] who trace their origins to the eponymous grandson of Muhammad.[10] After receiving an education in Islamic, Ottoman, and Catholic schools, he went on to serve in the Ottoman army in World War I. At war's end he stationed himself in Damascus as a supporter of the Arab Kingdom of Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No relation to Husseini.  Father was an usuccessful merchant.  And the coup de grace to your propaganda, from Time magazine, not from fiction sites.
> 
> "Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat Al Qudua Al Husseini, on Aug. 24, 1929 in Cairo, where his father, a textile merchant from Gaza, had moved the family two years before. I*n his early years, Arafat claimed to be a member of the prominent al-Husseini clan of Jerusalem, the family of Hajj Amin Al Husseini, then the Mufti of Palestine, but that was also a fantasy...."
> 
> Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com*
Click to expand...


 Well the Husseinis and al- Qudwa's are of the Ashraf class, notables who trace their ancestry to Arabia, directly to Quraish tribe. 

 The al-Husseinis ruled Jerusalem, Syria and other regions.
Abdel Raouf al-Qudwa al-Husseini father of Yasser Arafat fought the Egyptian courts for 'familial' lands...

I think people of this clan weren't simply chosen to guard the Waqf or rule over key areas in the region.


----------



## montelatici

None are Arabian royalty you idiot.  They are former Christians that took on names of their rulers, much like you have African-Americans named Jefferson and Washington.

Your dog won't hunt, it's just deflection.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> None are Arabian royalty you idiot.  They are former Christians that took on names of their rulers, much like you have African-Americans named Jefferson and Washington.
> 
> Your dog won't hunt, it's just deflection.



Deflection from what? That these people still identify with Arab Muslim colonialism?

That they preferred Greek and Arabic over their own language...while Jews kept writing volumes of books in Hebrew...in the same land?


----------



## montelatici

Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.




This is silly the original Chistians were a sect of Jews, they wrote in Hebrew. They didn't need Greek translations of the Torah. 

But when was the first translation of the Quran to Hebrew written?


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.



And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.


----------



## montelatici

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is silly the original Chistians were a sect of Jews, they wrote in Hebrew. They didn't need Greek translations of the Torah.
> 
> But when was the first translation of the Quran to Hebrew written?
Click to expand...


Only the clerics knew Hebrew.  The language spoken was Aramaic. the Christians did not need to translate the Torah.  

The Bible, Hebrews 8:13

"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
Click to expand...


The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is silly the original Chistians were a sect of Jews, they wrote in Hebrew. They didn't need Greek translations of the Torah.
> 
> But when was the first translation of the Quran to Hebrew written?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the clerics knew Hebrew.  The language spoken was Aramaic. the Christians did not need to translate the Torah.
> 
> The Bible, Hebrews 8:13
> 
> "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
Click to expand...


*And what language was the book of Hebrews written in?*

You repeat the same verse everywhere but don't understand that the book of Hebrews is the easiest to show that it was written for those who knew no Aramaic or Hebrew, for those who could NOT read the original Hebrew Torah.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
Click to expand...


And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.

While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
Click to expand...


Hebrew doesn't owe anything to Arabic.  They are both Semitic languages with similar words and phrasing (Shalom Aleichem, Salaam Aleikum), but who's to say which one is older?  (I tend to think Hebrew is older.)  Modern Hebrew has borrowed more words from English.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
Click to expand...


Eliezer Ben-Yehuda revived Hebrew as a widely-spoken language, but that doesn't mean that Hebrew was completely dead and used only in prayer.  Correspondences and religious texts were still written by rabbis such as Maimonides and Nachmonides throughout the long years of Exile.


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
Click to expand...


And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?

As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.


----------



## Challenger

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eliezer Ben-Yehuda revived Hebrew as a widely-spoken language, but that doesn't mean that Hebrew was completely dead and used only in prayer.  Correspondences and religious texts were still written by rabbis such as Maimonides and Nachmonides throughout the long years of Exile.
Click to expand...


His real name was Eliezer Perlman, a newspaperman who became a Zionist and invented a new version of "hebrew", much of which was based on standard modern Arabic. It wasn't widely spoken until it became compulsory for all immigrants to Palestine, and there was no exile; that's yet another Zionist myth, debunked long ago.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?
> 
> As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.
Click to expand...


I think it's widely known that the Jews of Europe spoke Yiddish and not Hebrew.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

montelatici said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is silly the original Chistians were a sect of Jews, they wrote in Hebrew. They didn't need Greek translations of the Torah.
> 
> But when was the first translation of the Quran to Hebrew written?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the clerics knew Hebrew.  The language spoken was Aramaic. the Christians did not need to translate the Torah.
> 
> The Bible, Hebrews 8:13
> 
> "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
Click to expand...


You keep on quoting that ONE verse from the New Testament.  How about the multitude of verses in the New Testament that refer back to stories and personalities from the Old Testament?


----------



## montelatici

ForeverYoung436 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is silly the original Chistians were a sect of Jews, they wrote in Hebrew. They didn't need Greek translations of the Torah.
> 
> But when was the first translation of the Quran to Hebrew written?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the clerics knew Hebrew.  The language spoken was Aramaic. the Christians did not need to translate the Torah.
> 
> The Bible, Hebrews 8:13
> 
> "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep on quoting that ONE verse from the New Testament.  How about the multitude of verses in the New Testament that refer back to stories and personalities from the Old Testament?
Click to expand...


I suspect you are not familiar with the Bible.  It is not just that verse, there are many others. For example:

"Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him." And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:14-19)"


----------



## rylah

montelatici said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is silly the original Chistians were a sect of Jews, they wrote in Hebrew. They didn't need Greek translations of the Torah.
> 
> But when was the first translation of the Quran to Hebrew written?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only the clerics knew Hebrew.  The language spoken was Aramaic. the Christians did not need to translate the Torah.
> 
> The Bible, Hebrews 8:13
> 
> "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You keep on quoting that ONE verse from the New Testament.  How about the multitude of verses in the New Testament that refer back to stories and personalities from the Old Testament?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I suspect you are not familiar with the Bible.  It is not just that verse, there are many others. For example:
> 
> "Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him." And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:14-19)"
Click to expand...


The same Mark that used to quote from *Malachi, Isaiah, Exodus, Leviticus , Genesis, Psalms *and more which You claim to be 'fairytale'?

Indeed there's a lot to quote from the New Testament that's against the Jews. All church fathers were against Jews and they wrote whole books using forged verses from the Torah to justify it.
In some occasions they even left the fingerprints...like the book of Hebrews.

Anyway trying to push Greco-Roman culture as 'Palestinian' culture - simply proves my point - that anything presented as 'PALESTINIAN', is foreign to the land, either Roman, Greek or Arabian.


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?
> 
> As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.
Click to expand...


You're fighting straw-men here. Nobody is saying Hebrew was widely spoken among the diaspora. However the Hebrew alphabet was used on a daily basis, from Yemen to Russia in writing the local languages, be it Judeo-Arabic or Yiddish.

It's not that_ 'every language has borrowed words'_, every local language Jews used was fused with Hebrew alphabet and words that didn't exist in those languages. Some Hebrew words even became the slang in the countries of the diaspora.

Here are some examples of legal documents written in both English and Hebrew, that deal with legal and financial issues:



 

_"A record of testimony which took place before us, the undersigned, on Tuesday, on the twenty third day of the month | 2 of Sivan of the year five thousand twenty two of the creation of the world according to the computation that we count here, in the town of Nottingham. | 3 How Abraham ben R. Jacob came before us and said to us: Be my witnesses, perform with me a qinyan, write and sign according to | 4 all the right terms of law, and give to my grandfather, R. Abraham ben Master Joseph Crespin"_



 

_" I, Solomon ben Yose release the prior and the priests of St. Trinity | 2 of Canterbury three measures and a half of land called ‘acres’, which lie | 3 in the town of Ickham, that they have acquired from Yves de Molin and from Mabila his wife, and I and my heirs | 4 cannot claim anything on this aforementioned land, by reason of any debt that this | 5 Yves and Mabila owe to me from the creation of the world until its end."_

Hebrew and Hebrew-Latin Documents from Medieval England: A Diplomatic and Palaeographical Study 
_
_


----------



## Roudy

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was an independent state in Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. There is not much to differentiate a Colombian from a Panamanian, yet they are separate nationalities.  Same for Tunisia and Libya.  However, the people of Palestine were different enough from the surrounding people (a large Christian population) so that the Ottomans created the Kudus Special District (encompassing Palestine) ruled directly from Istanbul rather than from the Syrian administrative district.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that after the invasion by the colonizing xtian Crusaders?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What hypocricy by monte!!  The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal country but not the modern state of Israel?  The current Jews are colonizers but the Christian Crusaders were not?
> 
> As for your other assertion, Lebanon was separated from Syria because of its large Christian population (which the Muslims have since decimated), but that was not the case with Palestine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where have I said that the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was a legal state and Israel is not?  You must be confusing me with someone else.
> 
> The Crusaders were not settler colonists, they arrived to rule over the existing native inhabitants, like the Arabs and Romans did.  The Zionists expelled the native inhabitants, to settle their population there.  There is a difference.
> 
> Palestine had a large Christian population before the Zionists arrived, as many as 20% were Christian.  And, the Kudus Special District (Palestine) was ruled directly from Istanbul, unlike Syria.  It's just an historical fact.
> 
> Lebanon was split from Syria by the French, not the Ottomans, get your history straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha ha!  It said "the Crusaders 'arrived' to rule over..."!
> Never in my life have I seen  someone so full of ignorance and hate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you think the Crusaders did, if not rule?  What do you think the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem did, organize picnics?  You continue to make a fool of yourself.
Click to expand...

The crusaders didn't "arrive", they INVADED, raped, looted, pillaged, enslaved, destroyed, and basically did everything that Arab Muslim invaders did.  You didn't know?


----------



## Challenger

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the native people preferred languages that were widely spoken over their native Aramaic. (Hebrew was a liturgical language like Latin is today).  They converted to Christianity, why would they want to learn Hebrew.  Very few people practiced anything but Christianity in the Empire once it became the required state religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?
> 
> As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're fighting straw-men here. Nobody is saying Hebrew was widely spoken among the diaspora. However the Hebrew alphabet was used on a daily basis, from Yemen to Russia in writing the local languages, be it Judeo-Arabic or Yiddish.
> 
> It's not that_ 'every language has borrowed words'_, every local language Jews used was fused with Hebrew alphabet and words that didn't exist in those languages. Some Hebrew words even became the slang in the countries of the diaspora.
> 
> Here are some examples of legal documents written in both English and Hebrew, that deal with legal and financial issues:
> 
> View attachment 135296
> 
> _"A record of testimony which took place before us, the undersigned, on Tuesday, on the twenty third day of the month | 2 of Sivan of the year five thousand twenty two of the creation of the world according to the computation that we count here, in the town of Nottingham. | 3 How Abraham ben R. Jacob came before us and said to us: Be my witnesses, perform with me a qinyan, write and sign according to | 4 all the right terms of law, and give to my grandfather, R. Abraham ben Master Joseph Crespin"_
> 
> View attachment 135295
> 
> _" I, Solomon ben Yose release the prior and the priests of St. Trinity | 2 of Canterbury three measures and a half of land called ‘acres’, which lie | 3 in the town of Ickham, that they have acquired from Yves de Molin and from Mabila his wife, and I and my heirs | 4 cannot claim anything on this aforementioned land, by reason of any debt that this | 5 Yves and Mabila owe to me from the creation of the world until its end."_
> 
> Hebrew and Hebrew-Latin Documents from Medieval England: A Diplomatic and Palaeographical Study
Click to expand...


Talking of strawmen, what alphabet are you using to type your posts in English? Latin. Persians adopted the Arabic alphabet but still wrote in Farsi. All languages evolve, except modern "hebrew" which is an artificial construct invented in the late 19th century.


----------



## louie888

Challenger said:


> ...All languages evolve, except modern "hebrew" which is an artificial construct invented in the late 19th century.


I have not read this whole thread as it is yet another of their attempts to erase Palestine and the Palestinian people, but would you be kind enough to explain to me what you mean here?


----------



## rylah

Challenger said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews kept Hebrew as the basis for all those 'widely spoken' languages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?
> 
> As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're fighting straw-men here. Nobody is saying Hebrew was widely spoken among the diaspora. However the Hebrew alphabet was used on a daily basis, from Yemen to Russia in writing the local languages, be it Judeo-Arabic or Yiddish.
> 
> It's not that_ 'every language has borrowed words'_, every local language Jews used was fused with Hebrew alphabet and words that didn't exist in those languages. Some Hebrew words even became the slang in the countries of the diaspora.
> 
> Here are some examples of legal documents written in both English and Hebrew, that deal with legal and financial issues:
> 
> View attachment 135296
> 
> _"A record of testimony which took place before us, the undersigned, on Tuesday, on the twenty third day of the month | 2 of Sivan of the year five thousand twenty two of the creation of the world according to the computation that we count here, in the town of Nottingham. | 3 How Abraham ben R. Jacob came before us and said to us: Be my witnesses, perform with me a qinyan, write and sign according to | 4 all the right terms of law, and give to my grandfather, R. Abraham ben Master Joseph Crespin"_
> 
> View attachment 135295
> 
> _" I, Solomon ben Yose release the prior and the priests of St. Trinity | 2 of Canterbury three measures and a half of land called ‘acres’, which lie | 3 in the town of Ickham, that they have acquired from Yves de Molin and from Mabila his wife, and I and my heirs | 4 cannot claim anything on this aforementioned land, by reason of any debt that this | 5 Yves and Mabila owe to me from the creation of the world until its end."_
> 
> Hebrew and Hebrew-Latin Documents from Medieval England: A Diplomatic and Palaeographical Study
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking of strawmen, what alphabet are you using to type your posts in English? Latin. Persians adopted the Arabic alphabet but still wrote in Farsi. All languages evolve, except modern "hebrew" which is an artificial construct invented in the late 19th century.
Click to expand...


You're trying to blur the fact that Jews throughout the diaspora kept using Hebrew, retained its' alphabet and basic form. The fact that Hebrew fused Aramaic, Arabic or Western words is irrelevant. It's what has been retained, and that is the basic Hebrew language, in structure and form.

The same documents I've presented can be read by the average Israeli kid with ease, as any other Jewish kid in the diaspora who learned both Hebrew, Aramaic AND the local language. It's just how Jews taught their kids. Even Ben-Gurion studied in a Heider like most Jewish kids in the diaspora.

It's a Jewish tradition to teach Your kids Hebrew letters using honeyץ You put some honey on a picture of a letter, and let the kid lick it after pronouncing it - on the first day of Jewish school.


----------



## ForeverYoung436

rylah said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The modern Israeli "Hebrew" language was invented in the late 19th century by a Jewish Belarussian Zionist who thought it would help in the creation of a "Jewish national identity". Modern "Hebrew" owes more to modern standard Arabic than any other language.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?
> 
> As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're fighting straw-men here. Nobody is saying Hebrew was widely spoken among the diaspora. However the Hebrew alphabet was used on a daily basis, from Yemen to Russia in writing the local languages, be it Judeo-Arabic or Yiddish.
> 
> It's not that_ 'every language has borrowed words'_, every local language Jews used was fused with Hebrew alphabet and words that didn't exist in those languages. Some Hebrew words even became the slang in the countries of the diaspora.
> 
> Here are some examples of legal documents written in both English and Hebrew, that deal with legal and financial issues:
> 
> View attachment 135296
> 
> _"A record of testimony which took place before us, the undersigned, on Tuesday, on the twenty third day of the month | 2 of Sivan of the year five thousand twenty two of the creation of the world according to the computation that we count here, in the town of Nottingham. | 3 How Abraham ben R. Jacob came before us and said to us: Be my witnesses, perform with me a qinyan, write and sign according to | 4 all the right terms of law, and give to my grandfather, R. Abraham ben Master Joseph Crespin"_
> 
> View attachment 135295
> 
> _" I, Solomon ben Yose release the prior and the priests of St. Trinity | 2 of Canterbury three measures and a half of land called ‘acres’, which lie | 3 in the town of Ickham, that they have acquired from Yves de Molin and from Mabila his wife, and I and my heirs | 4 cannot claim anything on this aforementioned land, by reason of any debt that this | 5 Yves and Mabila owe to me from the creation of the world until its end."_
> 
> Hebrew and Hebrew-Latin Documents from Medieval England: A Diplomatic and Palaeographical Study
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking of strawmen, what alphabet are you using to type your posts in English? Latin. Persians adopted the Arabic alphabet but still wrote in Farsi. All languages evolve, except modern "hebrew" which is an artificial construct invented in the late 19th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to blur the fact that Jews throughout the diaspora kept using Hebrew, retained its' alphabet and basic form. The fact that Hebrew fused Aramaic, Arabic or Western words is irrelevant. It's what has been retained, and that is the basic Hebrew language, in structure and form.
> 
> The same documents I've presented can be read by the average Israeli kid with ease, as any other Jewish kid in the diaspora who learned both Hebrew, Aramaic AND the local language. It's just how Jews taught their kids. Even Ben-Gurion studied in a Heider like most Jewish kids in the diaspora.
> 
> It's a Jewish tradition to teach Your kids Hebrew letters using honeyץ You put some honey on a picture of a letter, and let the kid lick it after pronouncing it - on the first day of Jewish school.
Click to expand...


Why?  Because learning the Hebrew letters and alphabet is as sweet as honey.


----------



## THAI EXPAT

Even the Nazi's thought a Jewish homeland was a good idea!

The Madagascar plan was a suggested policy of the Third Reich government of Nazi Germany to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar.[14]




Madagascar lies off the east coast of Africa
The evacuation of European Jewry to the island of Madagascar was not a new concept. Henry Hamilton Beamish, Arnold Leese, Lord Moyne, German scholar Paul de Lagarde and the British, French, and Polish governments had all contemplated the idea.[14] Nazi Germany seized upon it, and in May 1940, in his _Reflections on the Treatment of Peoples of Alien Races in the East_, Heinrich Himmler declared: "I hope that the concept of Jews will be completely extinguished through the possibility of a large emigration of all Jews to Africa or some other colony."

Although some discussion of this plan had been brought forward from 1938 by other well-known Nazi ideologues, such as Julius Streicher, Hermann Göring, and Joachim von Ribbentrop, it was not until June 1940 that the plan was actually set in motion. As victory in France was imminent, it was clear that all French colonies would soon come under German control, and the Madagascar Plan could be realized. It was also felt that a potential peace treaty with Great Britain would put the British navy at Germany's disposal for use in the evacuation.

With Adolf Hitler's approval, Adolf Eichmann released a memorandum on 15 August 1940 calling for the resettlement of a million Jews per year for four years, with the island governed as a police state under the SS. The plan was postponed after the Germans failed to defeat the British in the Battle of Britain later in 1940 and was permanently shelved in 1942 with the commencement of the Final Solution.
Proposals for a Jewish state - Wikipedia


----------



## louie888

THAI EXPAT said:


> Even the Nazi's thought a Jewish homeland was a good idea!


Not only that, they conspired directly with the zionists to accomplish this!

No joke...





51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis: Lenni Brenner: 9781569804339: Amazon.com: Books

All the above documents were collected and compiled by the well respected Jewish author/historian, Lenni Brenner.


----------



## rylah

All this Nazi memorabilia is so relevant to the definition of 'Palestinian'.
I'm glad this appears here on every other page.

Should we also discuss the most famous foreign bestseller (the one with the funny mustache on the cover) in the Arab  world?


----------



## ForeverYoung436

ForeverYoung436 said:


> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rylah said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Jews have libraries full of books written throughout millenias using the language You claim was invented just recently.
> 
> While Jews kept fusing Hebrew with all local languages in the diaspora, Palestinians somehow easily and instantaneously forgot about it, preferring Greek and Arabic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?
> 
> As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're fighting straw-men here. Nobody is saying Hebrew was widely spoken among the diaspora. However the Hebrew alphabet was used on a daily basis, from Yemen to Russia in writing the local languages, be it Judeo-Arabic or Yiddish.
> 
> It's not that_ 'every language has borrowed words'_, every local language Jews used was fused with Hebrew alphabet and words that didn't exist in those languages. Some Hebrew words even became the slang in the countries of the diaspora.
> 
> Here are some examples of legal documents written in both English and Hebrew, that deal with legal and financial issues:
> 
> View attachment 135296
> 
> _"A record of testimony which took place before us, the undersigned, on Tuesday, on the twenty third day of the month | 2 of Sivan of the year five thousand twenty two of the creation of the world according to the computation that we count here, in the town of Nottingham. | 3 How Abraham ben R. Jacob came before us and said to us: Be my witnesses, perform with me a qinyan, write and sign according to | 4 all the right terms of law, and give to my grandfather, R. Abraham ben Master Joseph Crespin"_
> 
> View attachment 135295
> 
> _" I, Solomon ben Yose release the prior and the priests of St. Trinity | 2 of Canterbury three measures and a half of land called ‘acres’, which lie | 3 in the town of Ickham, that they have acquired from Yves de Molin and from Mabila his wife, and I and my heirs | 4 cannot claim anything on this aforementioned land, by reason of any debt that this | 5 Yves and Mabila owe to me from the creation of the world until its end."_
> 
> Hebrew and Hebrew-Latin Documents from Medieval England: A Diplomatic and Palaeographical Study
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking of strawmen, what alphabet are you using to type your posts in English? Latin. Persians adopted the Arabic alphabet but still wrote in Farsi. All languages evolve, except modern "hebrew" which is an artificial construct invented in the late 19th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to blur the fact that Jews throughout the diaspora kept using Hebrew, retained its' alphabet and basic form. The fact that Hebrew fused Aramaic, Arabic or Western words is irrelevant. It's what has been retained, and that is the basic Hebrew language, in structure and form.
> 
> The same documents I've presented can be read by the average Israeli kid with ease, as any other Jewish kid in the diaspora who learned both Hebrew, Aramaic AND the local language. It's just how Jews taught their kids. Even Ben-Gurion studied in a Heider like most Jewish kids in the diaspora.
> 
> It's a Jewish tradition to teach Your kids Hebrew letters using honeyץ You put some honey on a picture of a letter, and let the kid lick it after pronouncing it - on the first day of Jewish school.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?  Because learning the Hebrew letters and alphabet is as sweet as honey.
Click to expand...


Really rylah, I read that's how the custom originated.


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## rylah

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
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> rylah said:
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> Challenger said:
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> rylah said:
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> 
> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> And there are whole libraries of books in Europe written in Latin and Greek, a language only used by clerics and scholars, not the general populations of te countries that house them, it's another Zionist myth that "Hebrew" was widely spoken amongst the Jewish populations of Europe and elsewhere. Immigrants to the new Zionist paradise had to learn modern Hebrew from scratch. Why would Palestinians "easily and instantaneously" forget a language that hadn't been in use for centuries?
> 
> As for fusing Hebrew with local languages, please. Every language has "loan words" from other languages, English has many, many, words derived from Latin and Greek, for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're fighting straw-men here. Nobody is saying Hebrew was widely spoken among the diaspora. However the Hebrew alphabet was used on a daily basis, from Yemen to Russia in writing the local languages, be it Judeo-Arabic or Yiddish.
> 
> It's not that_ 'every language has borrowed words'_, every local language Jews used was fused with Hebrew alphabet and words that didn't exist in those languages. Some Hebrew words even became the slang in the countries of the diaspora.
> 
> Here are some examples of legal documents written in both English and Hebrew, that deal with legal and financial issues:
> 
> View attachment 135296
> 
> _"A record of testimony which took place before us, the undersigned, on Tuesday, on the twenty third day of the month | 2 of Sivan of the year five thousand twenty two of the creation of the world according to the computation that we count here, in the town of Nottingham. | 3 How Abraham ben R. Jacob came before us and said to us: Be my witnesses, perform with me a qinyan, write and sign according to | 4 all the right terms of law, and give to my grandfather, R. Abraham ben Master Joseph Crespin"_
> 
> View attachment 135295
> 
> _" I, Solomon ben Yose release the prior and the priests of St. Trinity | 2 of Canterbury three measures and a half of land called ‘acres’, which lie | 3 in the town of Ickham, that they have acquired from Yves de Molin and from Mabila his wife, and I and my heirs | 4 cannot claim anything on this aforementioned land, by reason of any debt that this | 5 Yves and Mabila owe to me from the creation of the world until its end."_
> 
> Hebrew and Hebrew-Latin Documents from Medieval England: A Diplomatic and Palaeographical Study
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Talking of strawmen, what alphabet are you using to type your posts in English? Latin. Persians adopted the Arabic alphabet but still wrote in Farsi. All languages evolve, except modern "hebrew" which is an artificial construct invented in the late 19th century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're trying to blur the fact that Jews throughout the diaspora kept using Hebrew, retained its' alphabet and basic form. The fact that Hebrew fused Aramaic, Arabic or Western words is irrelevant. It's what has been retained, and that is the basic Hebrew language, in structure and form.
> 
> The same documents I've presented can be read by the average Israeli kid with ease, as any other Jewish kid in the diaspora who learned both Hebrew, Aramaic AND the local language. It's just how Jews taught their kids. Even Ben-Gurion studied in a Heider like most Jewish kids in the diaspora.
> 
> It's a Jewish tradition to teach Your kids Hebrew letters using honeyץ You put some honey on a picture of a letter, and let the kid lick it after pronouncing it - on the first day of Jewish school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?  Because learning the Hebrew letters and alphabet is as sweet as honey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really rylah, I read that's how the custom originated.
Click to expand...


I laughed and agreed because it reminded me of my teacher who used to tell us "Oh, just listen to the Hebrew words, they're so delicious, a honey to our ears."


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## abu afak

Efraim Karsh:
Rethinking the Middle East
and
What Occupation?

"...As the eminent Arab-American historian Philip Hitti described the common Arab view to an Anglo-American commission of inquiry in 1946, "There is No such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely Not."

This fact was keenly recognized by the British authorities on the eve of their departure. *As one official observed in mid-December 1947, "it does not appear that Arab Palestine will be an entity, but rather that the Arab countries will each claim a portion in return for their assistance*_ [in the war against Israel], unless [Transjordan's] King Abdallah takes rapid and firm action as soon as the British withdrawal is completed." _
A couple of months later, the British high commissioner for Palestine, General Sir Alan Cunningham, informed the colonial secretary, Arthur Creech Jones, that _"the most likely arrangement seems to be Eastern Galilee to Syria, Samaria and Hebron to Abdallah, and the south to Egypt."_

*The British proved to be prescient. Neither Egypt nor Jordan ever allowed Palestinian self-determination in Gaza and the West Bank -- *which were, respectively, the parts of Palestine conquered by them during the 1948-49 war. 

Indeed, even *UN Security Council Resolution 242*, which after the Six-Day war of 1967 established the principle of "land for peace" as the cornerstone of future Arab-Israeli peace negotiations, *did Not envisage the creation of a Palestinian state. To the contrary: since the Palestinians were still not viewed as a distinct nation, it was assumed that any territories evacuated by Israel, would be returned to their pre-1967 Arab occupiers* -- Gaza to Egypt, and the West Bank to Jordan.
The resolution *did not even mention the Palestinians by name*, affirming instead the necessity "for achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem" -- a clause that applied not just to the Palestinians but to the hundreds of thousands of Jews expelled from the Arab states following the 1948 war.

At this time -- we are speaking of the late 1960's -- Palestinian nationhood was Rejected by the entire international community, including the Western democracies, the Soviet Union (the foremost supporter of radical Arabism), and the Arab world itself. "Moderate" Arab rulers like the Hashemites in Jordan viewed an independent Palestinian state as a mortal threat to their own kingdom, while the Saudis saw it as a potential source of extremism and instability. ..."
[......]​
*`*


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