# Republicans: Healthcare worse for Americans than 9-11



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

Virginia Foxx: Health Care Reform Is A Bigger Threat Than "Any Terrorist Right Now In Any Country" (VIDEO)

Are you afraid yet?



> Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) claimed on Monday that health care reform is a bigger threat than terrorism -- the latest incendiary comment from a Republican lawmaker on the supposedly dire consequences of the legislation.
> 
> Speaking on the House floor, the North Carolina lawmaker said:
> 
> ...


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.

It's an attack on the basic framework of our country and is the institution of Tyranny


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## DiamondDave (Nov 3, 2009)

1) Huffuington post... complete biased fishwrap used as backup... epic fail
2) Attacks on the constitution, such as this 'healthcare reform' are dangerous to the country... there is no other way to simply state it
3) Added security in our country has indeed lessened threat levels for terrorist attacks

Would I have personally put those things together in that context?? Nope.... I simply would have said that this 'socialized medicine', 'healthcare reform', 'government option', or whatever else you wish to call it today is a danger to the personal freedoms we have as citizens and is directly against what was intended in the Constitution for our government to do....


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

She does not have to even link it to 911 and just leave it for what it is: the latest  Democrat offensive on our founding principles


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## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

Republicans would rather have 3000 Americans killed by terrorists than 40,000 Americans saved by healthcare.

Shows where their priorities lie


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## rdean (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> 
> It's an attack on the basic framework of our country and is the institution of Tyranny



What about those that want health care but can't afford it?


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> 
> It's an attack on the basic framework of our country and is the institution of Tyranny


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans would rather have 3000 Americans killed by terrorists than 40,000 Americans saved by healthcare.
> 
> Shows where their priorities lie



But then again they had no problem spending 4000 lives bringing universal healthcare to Iraq.


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## Misty (Nov 3, 2009)

Give Iraqi healthcare a try. Lol


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## Misty (Nov 3, 2009)

If you need the government to pay for your healthcare, go on welfare. 

You get 100% coverage.


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## Misty (Nov 3, 2009)

If you need the government to pay for your healthcare, go on welfare. 

You get 100% coverage.


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## WillowTree (Nov 3, 2009)

desperate demoncwats are so amusing!


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## DiamondDave (Nov 3, 2009)

rdean said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> 
> > Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> ...



Get a second or third motherfucking job... get training and advance in your job... if you feel you need more help, approach the various charitable foundations that VOLUNTARILY offer help.. but when it comes down to it; your personal care, your personal responsibility


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## DiamondDave (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans would rather have 3000 Americans killed by terrorists than 40,000 Americans saved by healthcare.
> 
> Shows where their priorities lie



Nice stretch there armstrong 







Nobody wants any American to die in a terrorist attack...

and nobody wishes hardship on others.... but you are not owed something for your own personal care of your non-public domain body, at the expense of anyone else's personal freedoms


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## stevecox (Nov 3, 2009)

It's funny how liberals bitch about FOX News being biased, but eagerly gobble up the pandering garbage Huffington Post puts out.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

stevecox said:


> It's funny how liberals bitch about FOX News being biased, but eagerly gobble up the pandering garbage Huffington Post puts out.



Libruls aren't too fucking bright; many of them don't even know how far Left they actually are.


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## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

stevecox said:


> It's funny how liberals bitch about FOX News being biased, but eagerly gobble up the pandering garbage Huffington Post puts out.



No pandering here..

Its a direct quote from Rep Foxx

Are you disputing that she said it??


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 3, 2009)

Misty said:


> Give Iraqi healthcare a try. Lol



You might want to, we're building them hospitals with your tax money.  And the Iraqi Constitution our guys died to make possible guarantees Iraqis universal healthcare provided by the State.

Nice, huh?


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## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

> I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country



Worse than any terrorist in any country...

Why do we have our Army fighting in Afghanistan?  They should be back here fighting healthcare


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## Claudette (Nov 3, 2009)

If they pass anything that has a public option in it we are so screwed. By we, I mean the taxpayers. This is just another way to spread the wealth. You know. Take money from the folks that earn it and give it to those that didn't. Makes my blood boil. The bill they are looking at right now is full of cuts and hidden taxes and God knows what else is inside that 2,000 page document? This is scary stuff and the Clowns in DC haven't even read it.

Then we get to the part where the Federal Govt, that can't run anything cheaply or efficiently will be running healthcare for all of us. They say we can choose but what insurance company can compete with the Govt? Before you know it, we will all be in the public system. Where Pelosi and her left wing loon friends think the Govt can run 1/6th of our economy is beyond me. Of course the govt is exempted from the whole thing, That says it all for me. If this Public option is so great then our elected leaders should be the first ones front and center to take advantage of it. Oh yeah. These people are nuts. The only thing wrong with our system is the rising cost. Take out the regs, open the entire country up to all the insurance companies. Let them compete against each other. The free market will work if they only let it. Prices would go down because  Myself and every other el cheapo person and company in the country will be looking for the best coverage we can get at the lowest cost. Thats just common sense. Something that they have none of in DC.


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## amrchaos (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Virginia Foxx: Health Care Reform Is A Bigger Threat Than "Any Terrorist Right Now In Any Country" (VIDEO)
> 
> Are you afraid yet?
> 
> ...





So--the DNC are trying to pass a "Weapon of Mass Destruction" as a reform??

Hmmm---hey, Isn't there leader Hussein? How ironic, yes?


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## Soggy in NOLA (Nov 3, 2009)

> Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) claimed on Monday that health care reform is a bigger threat than terrorism -- the latest incendiary comment from a Republican lawmaker on the supposedly dire consequences of the legislation.



Well, didn;t Obama pretty much declare the terrorosm threat to be highly overrrated?

And BTW... some of us see this move to takeover the healthcare industry as pretty damned ominous.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Nov 3, 2009)

Some wonder why the need to turn 1/6 of  the U.S. economy on it's head for the benefit of 10 million citizens.  There is much more to this than meets the eye.


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## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

I hear they are even going to screen you at the airport for your healthcare card

Pass healthcare....the terrorists win


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## Soggy in NOLA (Nov 3, 2009)

> I hear they are even going to screen you at the airport for your healthcare card



As long as I don't have to take my shoes off.


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## amrchaos (Nov 3, 2009)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> > I hear they are even going to screen you at the airport for your healthcare card
> 
> 
> 
> As long as I don't have to take my shoes off.





Why not?  Remember that guy that tried to set his shoe on fire over in the UK?  The al Qaeda following Shoe bomber??  

I wonder will they give you a pedicure while they search your sole for explosives.....


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## MajikMyst (Nov 3, 2009)

Claudette said:


> If they pass anything that has a public option in it we are so screwed. By we, I mean the taxpayers. This is just another way to spread the wealth. You know. Take money from the folks that earn it and give it to those that didn't. Makes my blood boil. The bill they are looking at right now is full of cuts and hidden taxes and God knows what else is inside that 2,000 page document? This is scary stuff and the Clowns in DC haven't even read it.
> 
> Then we get to the part where the Federal Govt, that can't run anything cheaply or efficiently will be running healthcare for all of us. They say we can choose but what insurance company can compete with the Govt? Before you know it, we will all be in the public system. Where Pelosi and her left wing loon friends think the Govt can run 1/6th of our economy is beyond me. Of course the govt is exempted from the whole thing, That says it all for me. If this Public option is so great then our elected leaders should be the first ones front and center to take advantage of it. Oh yeah. These people are nuts. The only thing wrong with our system is the rising cost. Take out the regs, open the entire country up to all the insurance companies. Let them compete against each other. The free market will work if they only let it. Prices would go down because  Myself and every other el cheapo person and company in the country will be looking for the best coverage we can get at the lowest cost. Thats just common sense. Something that they have none of in DC.



You are such an idiot!!! The CEO of United Healthcare makes 102,000 dollars an hour!! What can he possibly do that is worth it?? 

What is wrong with sharing the wealth?? Should 3 quarters of the work force in america work harder than Joe CEO up there and barely make minimum wage, which you morons don't want to give a raise to either.. 

What do you have against American workers?? Or is it that you support slavery and really don't want to pay them at all?? 

Is healthcare a right or a privilege? I see it as a right and something that our government should provide, like a fire department, police department, a highway system, a post office.. Can you imagine how much it would cost to ship something if UPS didn't have to compete with the USPS?? Or had you morons considered that? 

Bottom line is this!! You are against fair wages for all.. You try working 20 hours or more a week and barely make enough to feed your family.. While management plays golf 3 days a week and pays themselves handsomely.. How bout tying CEO pay to the workers?? We need to share the wealth... That will help the economy.. It will also mean that more taxes will collected because the middle class is making money again.. Which would also mean no tax increase to pay for healthcare.. Or had you morons thought of that?? 

Health care is not a privilege for those that can pay for it.. It is a right for all!! Get used to it or move to another country.. We won the civil war, get used to it.. Pay your freaken employees and give them a raise.. 

If you love America then you do what is best for the American people and not just the rich and big business.. If you are a patriot then you vote for the people of this nation and what is better for them.. 

There is nothing unconstitutional about the health care bill.. We are required to by car insurance.. There is no difference.. 

Be a patriot.. Vote for your fellow americans..

Does it bother you that the Iraqi people have better healthcare than most americans?? Does it bother you that we paid in blood to give them that healthcare?? 

Rebuttlicans are worse than Terrorists.. Bin laden, (who is still roaming free) killed just over 3000 people in 9/11.. You have killed over 4000 and counting and accomplished nothing of benefit to this nation..


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

Soggy in NOLA said:


> > Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) claimed on Monday that health care reform is a bigger threat than terrorism -- the latest incendiary comment from a Republican lawmaker on the supposedly dire consequences of the legislation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Obama called it man made disaters, no? 

It's not a war in Afghanistan, its the Overseas Contingency Operation against perpetrators of Manmade Disasters


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> > I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country
> 
> 
> 
> ...



are you really as dumb as that statement indicates you are?


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> > I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The OathKeepers have their eye on the "...all enemies foreign or domestic" ball


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> 
> It's an attack on the basic framework of our country and is the institution of Tyranny



Right. Because I'd much rather have my head cut-off than have health insurance available when I need it.

P.S. you people are complete morons


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> 
> > Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> ...



I'm pretty sure health insurance is not going to help reattach your head.


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 3, 2009)

Well, at least we have socialized medicine for our veterans, much to the chagrin of conservatives.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
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Wow you must be a genius


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

NYcarbineer said:


> Well, at least we have socialized medicine for our veterans, much to the chagrin of conservatives.



At least we have Veterans, much to the chagrin of Libruls


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

MajikMyst said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> > If they pass anything that has a public option in it we are so screwed. By we, I mean the taxpayers. This is just another way to spread the wealth. You know. Take money from the folks that earn it and give it to those that didn't. Makes my blood boil. The bill they are looking at right now is full of cuts and hidden taxes and God knows what else is inside that 2,000 page document? This is scary stuff and the Clowns in DC haven't even read it.
> ...



How much was UnitedHealth worth when he got there? How much is it worth now? If you've looked up the answer to both those questions, you should know the answer to yours. He did that.

Why do you spread lies to impoverish yourself and your fellow citizens? Doesn't it bother you to sell yourself and everyone else into ever-lasting subjugation? Clearly not.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

NYcarbineer said:


> Well, at least we have socialized medicine for our veterans, much to the chagrin of conservatives.



And our elderly.

And our children.



I think the right just doesn't want to see middle-aged americans get socialized medicine. Apparently socialized medicine for middle aged American = TERRORISM - but giving it to our seniors is OK.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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Most plans have also a 2 lobotomy per patient cap, you may have to fly to Cuba for your third attempt


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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> 
> > Well, at least we have socialized medicine for our veterans, much to the chagrin of conservatives.
> ...



How does that work for veterans who are liberals? Or does their service not count?


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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> > Well, at least we have socialized medicine for our veterans, much to the chagrin of conservatives.
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Not to worry, Ezekiel Emanuel has Obama's Final Solution to our Elderly problem


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
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 If you'd just tell me who your doctor is I could get it done in one go.


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## HUGGY (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> 
> It's an attack on the basic framework of our country and is the institution of Tyranny



We are forced to pay for alot of things frank.  I never use most of the nations hyways yet I have to contribute to them.  Bummer!  Some things we pay for are of no use to me personally like illegal foreign invasions.  I think saving american lives is a smarter use of the money than unneccesarily killing people.  Singleing out health care as the "villian" is simpley moronic.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
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OMG Death Panels!!!

lol


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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Their service counts, but the politicians and Libruls who called Iraq for the Insurgency don't count


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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> > Well, at least we have socialized medicine for our veterans, much to the chagrin of conservatives.
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I am a veteran.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
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??? The Republicans are the ones saying we lost ???


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

NYcarbineer said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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If you voted for Obama your service no longer counts. Please turn in all your medals. Thank you.


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## HUGGY (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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Frank has found clear evidense in his own imagination.  Or did he find it in Sara Palins imagination?..no it was Grassly's imagination...no wait..Dick Army's imagination..........


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYZEGot-xU4]YouTube - Harry Reid: "The Iraq War is lost."[/ame]

Like I said, try Cuba for your third lobotomy


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> NYcarbineer said:
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Throw them over the fence like John Kerry (did/didn't)


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

HUGGY said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
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It was from reading the works of Josef Mengele's protege, Ezekiel Emanuel


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

*Obama Claims Credit for Iraq Win*

Doesn't sound like calling it a loss to me, when you claim credit for the win.

Obama Claims Credit for Iraq Win


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

NYcarbineer said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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Thank you for your service


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
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Excellent example!!! John Kerry served his country in Vietnam. Then he came home and was vocal about his liberal viewpoints. Therefore, his service no longer counts.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> *Obama Claims Credit for Iraq Win*
> 
> Doesn't sound like calling it a loss to me, when you claim credit for the win.
> 
> Obama Claims Credit for Iraq Win



Obama inherited Bush's successful Surge strategy, that Obama guaranteed would fail.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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You tend to make up stuff as you go along, is reality THAT mean to you?


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Well, at least we have socialized medicine for our veterans, much to the chagrin of conservatives.
> ...



OMG ...you're an idiot. You still think this is actually about health care. This is about one thing and one thing only.......CONTROL.

Why is the public option important? If it were just about cost the government would simply say to insurers, if you want offer health insurance, you will offer this minimum coverage and submit to regulation of profits as a regulated utility.

But that isn't what they want to do. They want to destroy the insurance industry with a public option like Canada did. Then, once they are the only game in town, they'll have single payer. Just like Canada does. 

Either you are incredibly slow or you think we are. Well, I can tell you, we aren't so there is no need to continue to hide the ball.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Obama inherited Bush's complete and utter mess.



Fixed it


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> *Obama Claims Credit for Iraq Win*
> 
> Doesn't sound like calling it a loss to me, when you claim credit for the win.
> 
> Obama Claims Credit for Iraq Win



Oopsies

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7e4uL95x1Y]YouTube - Obama VS. Robert Gibbs on the surge[/ame]


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## amrchaos (Nov 3, 2009)

MajikMyst said:


> Claudette said:
> 
> 
> > If they pass anything that has a public option in it we are so screwed. By we, I mean the taxpayers. This is just another way to spread the wealth. You know. Take money from the folks that earn it and give it to those that didn't. Makes my blood boil. The bill they are looking at right now is full of cuts and hidden taxes and God knows what else is inside that 2,000 page document? This is scary stuff and the Clowns in DC haven't even read it.
> ...





The problem with "sharing the wealth" is quite simple

My Wealth---why do I need to share with you?


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 3, 2009)

Conservatives support the socialized medicine that is the VA, because, as they will often tell you, 

they want nothing but the best for our veterans...


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > Obama inherited Bush's complete and utter mess.
> ...



TOS Violation, McMurphy.  I'll chalk it up to the second partial lobotomy


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> OMG ...you're an idiot. You still think this is actually about health care. This is about one thing and one thing only.......CONTROL.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

amrchaos said:


> The problem with "sharing the wealth" is quite simple
> 
> My Wealth---why do I need to share with you?





That's funny, nowhere in the 16th amendment does it state that we have to tell you why.  It just says:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Apparently Congress had broad Constitutional authority to tax income.

Doesn't say you have to like it or agree with the reasoning behind it.

If you don't like the U.S. Constitution, you're free to move.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> amrchaos said:
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> > The problem with "sharing the wealth" is quite simple
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Where does it compel anyone to buy health insurance?


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> amrchaos said:
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> > The problem with "sharing the wealth" is quite simple
> ...



Or amend it. Something you people have seemingly forgotten about.

What the people giveth, the people may take away.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Tech_Esq said:
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> 
> > OMG ...you're an idiot. You still think this is actually about health care. This is about one thing and one thing only.......CONTROL.



If you posted something here I can't see it, I'm behind a picture filtering content filter.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Where does it compel anyone to buy health insurance?





In the same place it compels people to submit to a military draft.


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## amrchaos (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> amrchaos said:
> 
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> > The problem with "sharing the wealth" is quite simple
> ...





Your reference to the Constitution almost made me think you were a Mark Levin/Michele Bachman following.

But you are a lefty, so that can not be the case, now can it? So let me put it very simple.

How does Universal Health care benefit me If I already have Health care that I am okay with?  Would not passing it increase my taxes?  Why I accept it.

Remember--this thing is not law yet.  So why should I support something that would "take away from my wealth"?

Also--this Health care bill do have Mandates--I would prefer the Dems expanding medicare and funding it properly than being forced to buy anything.  Hear me--Kucinch Leftism is better than Obamanism!!


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


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That's funny, I have yet to see a Republican submit an amendment to repeal the 16th amendment. Do you guy  just not know how that works?


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

amrchaos said:


> How does Universal Health care benefit me If I already have Health care that I am okay with?



Who says it has to benefit you?

Who says everyone is as greedy as you?


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## HUGGY (Nov 3, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
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So much for the good news...what is the down side again?

How is the health of Canadiens worse than ours again?  How many without health care in Canada again?  

47 million americans uninsured.  What exactly does it take to get your attention?

Here is another reason for single payer...  The HMOs and Pharms have spent several billion lying about health care reform..who do you think is going to pay for those ads? ... Not the public option people.  If there ever was a reason to cut those HMO fucks off at the knees it is thier missuse of the money they collect from americans paying thier premiums for what is supposed to be health care.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

HUGGY said:


> How is the health of Canadiens worse than ours again?



Doesn't matter. All that matter is its communism and we hate commies and OMG they're destroying out country!


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## HUGGY (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> HUGGY said:
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> > How is the health of Canadiens worse than ours again?
> ...



You stupid asshole.  You miss spelled "our".  Therefore everyhing you have said is useless and wrong.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

HUGGY said:


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lol!


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

*We are required to by car insurance.. There is no difference..*


My god- the stupidity on these boards is astounding


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> > Where does it compel anyone to buy health insurance?
> ...



No, actually not. The Congress is specifically empowered to raise and army and a navy in Article I, Section 8. 

It does not say anything about health or health care or that Congress has any power over the health of the country in any way, shape, manner or form.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

*I see it as a right and something that our government should provide, like a fire department, police department, a highway system, a post office..*

Holy hell- the post office is a right to the left now.... typical liberal idiocy...


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


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That's funny, I had no idea the word "raise" meant "force into service". You must be interpreting the Constitution, which makes you an activist judge.


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Tech_Esq said:
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> ...



We'll see.....

I did see that your side didn't forget how to seek an amendment to repeal presidential term limits.......Sounds like a Chavez/Zelaya move to me......just sayin'


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> *I see it as a right and something that our government should provide, like a fire department, police department, a highway system, a post office..*
> 
> Holy hell- the post office is a right to the left now.... typical liberal idiocy...



"To establish post offices and post roads;"


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

*Who says it has to benefit you?

Who says everyone is as greedy as you?*

Why is it that individuals that believe it is fine to appropriate monies from those that earned to give to those that did not, always feel the need to lecture others on greed?


----------



## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Tech_Esq said:
> 
> 
> > SpidermanTuba said:
> ...



I'm sure we could fill volumes with what you have "no idea" about. 

It's called the "necessary and proper" clause. The Congress is allowed to use means that are necessary and proper to effectuate their legislation. So, if Congress has the power to legislate in an area, they have great latitude in how they do it. The draft is a "necessary and proper" method to raise an army/navy at some times.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> I did see that your side didn't forget how to seek an amendment to repeal presidential term limits.......Sounds like a Chavez/Zelaya move to me......just sayin'




Your ignorance is astounding. Before this year, The Democrats tried to repeal the 22nd amendment in 2005, when George W. Bush was in office. Kind of hard to pull a Chavez when your guy isn't in the White House, don't you think? ts clear that some of them are just against the 22nd amendment, no matter who is in office.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Why is it that individuals that believe it is fine to appropriate monies from those that earned to give to those that did not, always feel the need to lecture others on greed?



What lecture? I was asking a question.


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

"*To establish post offices and post roads;" [/B


Article 1, section 8, clause 7 does not confer a right to a post office, you miserable little tickterd.  It merely grants the power of Congress to establish it.  Your ignorance demands a liberal perspective- you are too ill-informed to be anything else.*


----------



## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Tech_Esq said:
> 
> 
> > I did see that your side didn't forget how to seek an amendment to repeal presidential term limits.......Sounds like a Chavez/Zelaya move to me......just sayin'
> ...



You can link that if its true. The amendment I'm talking about was submitted in 2009 by Congressman Serrano of NY.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> It's called the "necessary and proper" clause. The Congress is allowed to use means that are necessary and proper to effectuate their legislation. So, if Congress has the power to legislate in an area, they have great latitude in how they do it. The draft is a "necessary and proper" method to raise an army/navy at some times.




Yet public health is in no way "necessary and proper" to  "promote the general Welfare"

OK

So when are the Republicans going to repeal medicare?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

thepickledpunk said:


> "*to establish post offices and post roads;" [/b
> 
> 
> article 1, section 8, clause 7 does not confer a right to a post office, you miserable little tickterd.  It merely grants the power of congress to establish it.  Your ignorance demands a liberal perspective- you are too ill-informed to be anything else.*


*



ok.*


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

*What lecture? I was asking a question.* 

you are the one that would confiscate from the earners, to provide for those that have not earned.  Which is greed.  If I do not share my lunch money with you- that has little to do with greed.  If you reach into my pocket and take my lunch money- different story


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

*ok. *

you are not tremendously bright, nor well-reasoned, but you are capable of being taught.  Kudos.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

thepickledpunk said:


> *ok. *
> 
> you are not tremendously bright, nor well-reasoned, but you are capable of being taught.  Kudos.




ok.

Now can I teach you? Do you know how to use the "quote" function, or are you a complete moron?


----------



## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Tech_Esq said:
> 
> 
> > It's called the "necessary and proper" clause. The Congress is allowed to use means that are necessary and proper to effectuate their legislation. So, if Congress has the power to legislate in an area, they have great latitude in how they do it. The draft is a "necessary and proper" method to raise an army/navy at some times.
> ...



The general welfare clause is a general statement given specific meaning by the subsequent clauses. You'll notice that the two are separated by a semi-colon not a period. Perhaps if you were familiar with the English language, this would be meaningful to you. But why be excoriated by me when Madison does it so much more eloquently. From The Federalist 41:



> Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms "to raise money for the general welfare."
> 
> *But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?* If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars. But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning, and can have no other effect than to confound and mislead, is an absurdity, which, as we are reduced to the dilemma of charging either on the authors of the objection or on the authors of the Constitution, we must take the liberty of supposing, had not its origin with the latter.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 3, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> Perhaps if you were familiar with the English language, this would be meaningful to you.



Perhaps if you weren't such a condescedning prick, I'd actually care what you have to say and would have read the rest of your post.

But you are a condescending prick, therefore your opinion is meaningless to me, goodbye....


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

*ok.

Now can I teach you? Do you know how to use the "quote" function, or are you a complete moron? *

touche.  I'll take "I'm a complete moron" for $500


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## Tech_Esq (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Tech_Esq said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps if you were familiar with the English language, this would be meaningful to you.
> ...



PWNED!!


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## amrchaos (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> > How does Universal Health care benefit me If I already have Health care that I am okay with?
> ...



Look at me, I am greedy!! I ask a simple question and the leftwinger gets emotional!!

Not my fault if your "dear Leaders" forgot to program you on how to answer that question!!


----------



## amrchaos (Nov 3, 2009)

This Constitutional arguemtn everyone keeps talking about is kind of wierd.

The Congress do have the policy to legislate and set up laws--thus the power granted to them by the Constituition.  The question that the leftwinger should pose is "How is it unconstitutional?"

A law that is not unconstitutional can be empowered and kept.  You guys that keep asking "where is it in the constitution" already know this and your arguement lacks some merit.  Tell us, including me, how this horrible idea for UHC is not constitutional?  Do not rely on our Forefathers inability to see the future as an arguement.


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## HUGGY (Nov 3, 2009)

amrchaos said:


> This Constitutional arguemtn everyone keeps talking about is kind of wierd.
> 
> The Congress do have the policy to legislate and set up laws--thus the power granted to them by the Constituition.  The question that the leftwinger should pose is "How is it unconstitutional?"
> 
> A law that is not unconstitutional can be empowered and kept.  You guys that keep asking "where is it in the constitution" already know this and your arguement lacks some merit.  Tell us, including me, how this horrible idea for UHC is not constitutional?  Do not rely on our Forefathers inability to see the future as an arguement.



The it's not in the constitution "constitutional" argument is the weakest of all.  There is nothing in the constitution prohibiting health care.


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## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

amrchaos said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
> 
> 
> > amrchaos said:
> ...



Thats what makes the plan so appealing, if you like your plan, you keep it.

How can it help you? Competition can help keep down costs, Small businesses can provide afordable healthcare, it assures that you cannot be dropped if you become sick, if you lose your job you still have healtcare option

Win...Win


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## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.  

It is our version of domestic terrorism...and the republicans say, nothing is wrong, keep it the way it is?


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## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

Zona said:


> If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.
> 
> It is our version of domestic terrorism...and the republicans say, nothing is wrong, keep it the way it is?



Its worse than that Zona..

Rep Foxx wants to send supporters of healthcare to Gitmo!


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> > SpidermanTuba said:
> ...



I wonder why the President has not offered to explain how this is so, when common sense dictates that businesses will dump employees into the cheaper public option.  Obfuscation-devoid of honesty.


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## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.
> ...



Well, keep in mind her name....lol


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

Zona said:


> If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.
> 
> It is our version of domestic terrorism...and the republicans say, nothing is wrong, keep it the way it is?



Christ- you libs are true morons.  The failure of our government to provide insurance is an act of domestic terror.  Did you finish middle school?


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

Cancer kills thousands too, Zona.  Perhaps in your world- where government is the solution and people are the problem, it is an act of terror not to have a cure for cancer.  Being a lib must be easy- no thinking involved.


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## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Cancer kills thousands too, Zona.  Perhaps in your world- where government is the solution and people are the problem, it is an act of terror not to have a cure for cancer.  Being a lib must be easy- no thinking involved.



Well, if things work out, perhaps some of the people who have cancer can now actually be treated or better yet, caught in time to stop it.

If we have a system that allows a person to get cancer, go to their insurance company and not be dropped.....well then we all win.

Its not about welfare queens here guys, it about people like you who get sick, go to the their insurance company and get dropped at THEIR whim.


Get it now?

If you get fired, you and your family will be dropped right now.  If one of your family members has a long term illness, you may NEVER be able to get insurance because you have a pre existing condition.   If they find you had surgery on your toe in high school, they could determine you have a pre existing condition and get dropped.  etc etc etc.

Get it now?


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

Zona said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Cancer kills thousands too, Zona.  Perhaps in your world- where government is the solution and people are the problem, it is an act of terror not to have a cure for cancer.  Being a lib must be easy- no thinking involved.
> ...




Yes, I get that your likening of the current lack of national nanny-care to terrorism is so fuckin stupid that you cant explain it.  I definately get that.


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## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

If this country is allowing it so that 40 thousand people are dying IN OUR COUNTRY because they cant get insurance, there is something wrong with this.

This is domestic terrorism provided by the insurance companies.

We are the only large country in the world who does this and its crap and its all about money.  What kind of crap is this?

This new bill doesn't affect you.  If you want to pay that exuberant amount, then pay it.  THIS DOES NOT AFFECT YOU...it affect people who cant get affordable health care because YOUR insurance company dropped them.  AGAIN, THIS DOESNT AFFECT YOU.

Pay, pay, pay...and then they will raise it...and continue paying to make them rich.  Good for you.

AGAIN, THIS DOESNT AFFECT YOU. 

(and before you start with the ..you only want everything free...crap...I am on Tricare.  I am speaking about this because I know so many people in a situation that is just wrong.  They did nothing wrong.  

OH and everyone loves their insurance as long as they dont have to use it.  I hope it never happens to you, but if you need it, and they drop you because they can, then you will understand.  I know someone in that situation.


----------



## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



its not a nanny thing, its a money thing.  How can anyone be against competition for the insurance company?  The way the sytem is now, we are killing 40k people a year....FOURTY THOUSAND A YEAR.  What do you call it?


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

[quoteIf this country is allowing it so that 40 thousand people are dying IN OUR COUNTRY because they cant get insurance][/quote]

It is not lack of treatment that kills people, dipshit.  It is illness and injury that kills people.



> This is domestic terrorism provided by the insurance companies.



Really.  You think it is an act of terror by insurance companies not to insure everybody.  You are fucking dumb, Zona.



> I know so many people in a situation that is just wrong. They did nothing wrong.



Life isn't fair.  Look at the defective brain God gave you.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

Its not just domestic terrorism allowing 40,000 people to die and not even caring. Its the economic terrorism of our healthcare system. Healthcare costs are the leading reason for bankruptcies. No other industrialized nation allows its people to lose their homes because you got sick.
republicans treat you like freeloaders


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Its not just domestic terrorism allowing 40,000 people to die and not even caring. Its the economic terrorism of our healthcare system. Healthcare costs are the leading reason for bankruptcies. No other industrialized nation allows its people to lose their homes because you got sick.
> republicans treat you like freeloaders



Another genius that believes the lack of healthcare for everyone- even the millions that do not want it and can afford it, is somehow an act of terrorism.  Pathetic.  I'm guessin, with such dramatic hysteria, that you are a drag queen.


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## Maple (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Republicans would rather have 3000 Americans killed by terrorists than 40,000 Americans saved by healthcare.
> 
> Shows where their priorities lie



Can you prove to me where 40,000 people are going to be saved by healthcare?? NO ONE, NOT ANYONE, NOT EVER, EVER, NEVER is denied healthcare, not illegals, NOT ANYONE1111111 It is called the Hypocratic oath that all physicians know well, no one is EVER turned away from our emergency rooms, people who can't afford to go to the doctor office go to the emergency rooms and they see doctors there. The doctor will perform the same tests that he runs on people who have insurance, he will do the same surgery that he performs on people who have insurance, he will diagnose, prescribe all of it the same as he would with someone who has insurance. AND IF, that person can not afford to pay for the care, there is a system in place to make sure that person gets the care. It's called MEDICAID. Stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

[quoteNo other industrialized nation allows its people to lose their homes because you got sick.][/quote]

you clearly know nothing about bankruptcy law.  Google "Homestead exemption" and educate yourself, Corky.

[quoterepublicans treat you like freeloaders ][/quote]

Well, I am not sure how else freeloaders should be treated.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

Maple said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans would rather have 3000 Americans killed by terrorists than 40,000 Americans saved by healthcare.
> ...



Maple- these are parasites that will not do for themselves as they expect the government to do for them.  The sad thing is, for people like this, their lives will be just as miserable and problematic if the government does everything for them.  Their shortcomings are always the result of someone's unfairness towards them.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Maple said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



These are working Americans who have been overwhelmed by increasinghealthcare  bills and decreasing coverage.  How do you pay for a $200,000 hospital bill or a $100 a pill prescription?   Freeloaders?    republicans say let them die


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

*republicans say let them die *

perhaps you could provide an example of such a statement by a republican.  Or admit that you are too fucking stupid to matter.


----------



## Maple (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Its not just domestic terrorism allowing 40,000 people to die and not even caring. Its the economic terrorism of our healthcare system. Healthcare costs are the leading reason for bankruptcies. No other industrialized nation allows its people to lose their homes because you got sick.
> republicans treat you like freeloaders



If you can afford to own a home, you can afford to own a health insurance policy for protection against catastrophic losses. If they purchase a home before they purchase an inexpensive, high deductible, catastrophic plan they are too stupid to be buying a home in the first place.

 It is estimated that 15 million Americans can afford health insurance but choose not to buy it. They end up in our emergency rooms and we get to pay in higher and higher fee's for service and higher insurance premiums.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> *republicans say let them die *
> 
> perhaps you could provide an example of such a statement by a republican.  Or admit that you are too fucking stupid to matter.



Actions speak louder than words

Republicans had complete control oer the Congress and presidency for 6 years. They passed no significant healthcare legislation. And the legislation they passed (Plan D) barred competition.

Every industrialized country in the world laughs at the mighty US for allowing its own citizens to lose their homes because of healthcare costs


----------



## Maple (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Maple said:
> ...



It's called being smart enough to purchase an inexpensive high deductible catastrophic plan that will pay for that 200,000 hospital stay and having a HSA pre- tax dollars to cover that 100 pill, doctor's visits, dental visits etc.  There are solutions, you are just looking for a hand out from hard working tax paying citizens. It's called redistribution of wealth, the hard working responsible people are being robbed to take care of the irresponsible people who are parasites on this country.


----------



## Maple (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Maple said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I agree, they are victims, and victims always blame someone else. They have no iniative, no self responsibility, they look to have their every need taken care of by someone else. Plus they could care less what a bill like this would do to small business which employs over 70 percent of Americans when we currently have 15 million unemployed. We will have health insurance, but we sure won't have a roof over our heads, food to eat, clothes on our back, but boy we got that government option. whoppee.

"A government big enough to give you everything you NEED is big enough to TAKE everything that you have. " Thomas Jefferson.

Thomas Jefferson must have known Rightwinger and Zona.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

Maple said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



And if you have a pre existing condition, who will cover you? There are solutions if you are poor, old, a child..
But if you are working and struggling to pay your bills, a major health issue will bankrupt you

But at least the republicans are trying to change the bankruptcy laws to keep you from doing that


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > *republicans say let them die *
> ...



soooo, when you said that "Republicans say let them die" knowing you couldn't back it up, you were lying....


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

rdean said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> ...



then set up a program to help them get it....not all those who already have it and are content with what they have....besides it would be a lot cheaper and easier to help 15 million people than shoving something down the throats of 300 million.......


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

> And if you have a pre existing condition, who will cover you?



Does the stupidity ever end for you?  Should you be able to get insurance coverage for a car accident after it happens?  Do you have any idea what insurance is?


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

[quoteBut if you are working and struggling to pay your bills, a major health issue will bankrupt you
][/quote]

In my twenties I suffered a catastrophic injury without insurance.  Ended up with thirty-five thousand dollars in medical bills.  And instead of livin high on the hog, I saved my beer and ciggarrette money, sold my car and bought a motorcycle, and paid the bills off.  I know responsibility is a foreign concept to you, but damn, lady...


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> [quoteBut if you are working and struggling to pay your bills, a major health issue will bankrupt you
> ]



In my twenties I suffered a catastrophic injury without insurance.  Ended up with thirty-five thousand dollars in medical bills.  And instead of livin high on the hog, I saved my beer and ciggarrette money, sold my car and bought a motorcycle, and paid the bills off.  I know responsibility is a foreign concept to you, but damn, lady...[/QUOTE]





And you hold that up as a model?


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

HUGGY said:


> So much for the good news...what is the down side again?
> 
> How is the health of Canadiens worse than ours again?  How many without health care in Canada again?
> 
> ...



Huggy.....this number was destroyed in another thread.....MANY of those Millions are Illegals.....many are young people who dont want ins....many are people making good money and just pay cash to see a doc......when it was all broken down....it came to around 15-20 mill....give or take a few....


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > [quoteBut if you are working and struggling to pay your bills, a major health issue will bankrupt you
> ...







And you hold that up as a model?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.  I rolled the dice and gambled.  For a decade I went without insurance and saved a lot of money.  And when that gamble stopped payin off, I did not cry about how the government failed to protect me from myself.  

I wonder how many people could afford health insurance, but instead choose to drive a car and live in a nicer pad.   And how many are gambling-as I was.


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 3, 2009)

47 million are uninsured?   Figures dont lie, but liars can figure....


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> Tech_Esq said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps if you were familiar with the English language, this would be meaningful to you.
> ...



well i guess he could not take the heat.....so he got out of the kitchen....


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.
> ...



so they can get free health care.....why else....


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

Zona said:


> If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.
> 
> It is our version of domestic terrorism...and the republicans say, nothing is wrong, keep it the way it is?



your a lying sack of shit Zona....most repubs want REFORM....not the shit that is being thrown around......if you cant distinguish between the two then you are just another left wing hack....im sorry.....what am i saying....you are just another left wing hack....


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.
> ...



If they wanted reform, why didn't they pass healthcare reform while they were in control??


----------



## PatekPhilippe (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



Why didn't the Democrats?


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

PatekPhilippe said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



They are..

Thanks for your concern


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

Zona said:


> Well, if things work out, perhaps some of the people who have cancer can now actually be treated or better yet, caught in time to stop it.
> 
> If we have a system that allows a person to get cancer, go to their insurance company and not be dropped.....well then we all win.
> 
> ...



hey Zona...is the Govt going to cover EVERYONE no matter what their problem,no matter how expensive their treatment......is the govt going to send health care workers to someones house to take care of someone who needs professional help.....are they going to cover catastrophic illnesses....surgeries that cost 6 figures.....are they going to help the elderly cover costs if they need to go to a home OR are they going to ask for their house to be signed over to them.....and one final question.....if this plan that Pelosi thinks is so hot....is that great.....is Congress going to join the peasants and be on this plan also....


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



im not talking about the assholes who are in congress.....im talking People who live in the real world....and ill ask you this RW.....are the people in Congress who are touting this going to give up what they now have and join us?....


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



I don't see why not

I have the same healthcare plan as Congress does, its not so great. Want to see my out of pocket medical bills this year?


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




You get nearly free medical and dental? You have a private health clinic to go to? I doubt it.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 3, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



Where did you ever get the idea that Congress gets nearly free healthcare and dental?
They get the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan, same as millions of federal workers

You have to stop watching Fox to get your facts


----------



## Harry Dresden (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



out of pocket?.....i get the fed health plan and the only expenses i have are the co-pays....NEVER pay for anything else.... and my wife sees nothing but specialists....i think its a great plan....


----------



## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

These "freeloaders" are losing their homes after they have to go bankrupt because of health issues.  How is this right?  

Why is there no competition against the health care providers.


----------



## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Dresden said:
> ...



Then keep it.  Pay what you pay, and keep it.  Good for you.


----------



## PatekPhilippe (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> PatekPhilippe said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



No they're not...all they are doing is fighting over it.


----------



## PatekPhilippe (Nov 3, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



What plan are you on in FEHB...?


----------



## Zona (Nov 3, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > If over 40 thousand people die yearly because they dont have health care, this is actually worse than 9/11.
> ...



Really, then explain their "plan" they produced today.....THAT IS NOT REFORM, ITS THE SAME CRAP THEY SPEWED FOR YEARS, NOTHING NEW.

No protection against being dropped
No cometition for the insurance companies
No protection against not being accepted because of pre existing conditions.

NOTHING.  

Oh yeah, great reform from the republicans.  Sir, you are a s lying sack of shit. 

oh and god bless...


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

amrchaos said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
> 
> 
> > amrchaos said:
> ...



you are very funny


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> The failure of our government to provide insurance is an act of domestic terror.



Why do you say that?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> government is the solution and people are the problem



Really?

I thought the government was the people. This is America, right? The Constitution starts off "we the People", right?


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> it is an act of terror by insurance companies not to insure everybody.





I wouldn't go that far.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> the lack of healthcare for everyone- even the millions that do not want it and can afford it, is somehow an act of terrorism.



How is it?


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Google "Homestead exemption" and educate yourself, Corky.



Varies widely by states. Some states don't have it at all. You are really looking dumb.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

Maple said:


> If you can afford to own a home, you can afford to own a health insurance policy for protection against catastrophic losses.



Not if you have cancer.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> In my twenties I suffered a catastrophic injury without insurance.  Ended up with thirty-five thousand dollars in medical bills.  And instead of livin high on the hog, I saved my beer and ciggarrette money, sold my car and bought a motorcycle, and paid the bills off.  I know responsibility is a foreign concept to you, but damn, lady...






What a coincidence, I have a friend who was in a similar situation.


Except he was in a coma for 6 months and wound up owing $750,000. 


This was in the 90's. He still hasn't paid it off, imagine that.



You should be thanking sweet Jesus your *moronic uninsured idiotic* self was fortunate enough to wind up with a relatively minor hospital bill instead of one that would take a lifetime to pay off. Instead you self righteously brag about how you were so stupid you didn't get insurance but were able to pay off your tiny hospital bill anyway.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 4, 2009)

Zona said:


> Then keep it.  Pay what you pay, and keep it.  Good for you.



thats not my point.....if RW has the same federal health plan that i have,i just dont see how he has big out of pocket expenses....AND how he can think its not so great.....since its better than what everyone else seems to have....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 4, 2009)

Zona said:


> Really, then explain their "plan" they produced today.....THAT IS NOT REFORM, ITS THE SAME CRAP THEY SPEWED FOR YEARS, NOTHING NEW.
> 
> No protection against being dropped
> No cometition for the insurance companies
> ...



if your talking the assholes in Congress then thats your opinion....i am talking about the GREAT majority of Republicans who live in the real world Zona.....they agree about REFORM....just not what is being thrown around....AND if the feds control it...
and you did not bother to answer post 138.....


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## Douger (Nov 4, 2009)

Misty said:


> Give Iraqi healthcare a try. Lol


Iraq had a damn good health care system before we took them our style of " FreeDumb and DemoNcracy" and "saved' them from Evil Saddam.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 4, 2009)

Douger said:


> Misty said:
> 
> 
> > Give Iraqi healthcare a try. Lol
> ...



who is WE?....you live in a jungle in CR....or so you have said....


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## amrchaos (Nov 4, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> amrchaos said:
> 
> 
> > SpidermanTuba said:
> ...



Does the current Bill does that.  Also, what about the "mandates" to purchase a policy that the right wingers keep yelling about?

I have a better question--where is the copy of the draft to the Bill?


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 4, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > In my twenties I suffered a catastrophic injury without insurance.  Ended up with thirty-five thousand dollars in medical bills.  And instead of livin high on the hog, I saved my beer and ciggarrette money, sold my car and bought a motorcycle, and paid the bills off.  I know responsibility is a foreign concept to you, but damn, lady...
> ...



And it is this type of situation for which BK protection is extended.  As for being "my idiotic self" being uninsured- you are correct.  My point exactly.  I made the choice- and I dealt with the consequences- in a responsible manner.  I did not expect the government to rescue me.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 4, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > The failure of our government to provide insurance is an act of domestic terror.
> ...



Good question.  Why do idiots like Zona and Right-Winger spew this shit?


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## Zona (Nov 4, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > In my twenties I suffered a catastrophic injury without insurance.  Ended up with thirty-five thousand dollars in medical bills.  And instead of livin high on the hog, I saved my beer and ciggarrette money, sold my car and bought a motorcycle, and paid the bills off.  I know responsibility is a foreign concept to you, but damn, lady...
> ...



The system works just fine....of course the majority of bankruptcies are health care related, but the system works just fine.  Ask Liebermann and any republican.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 4, 2009)

Zona said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



Who said the system works perfectly and does not need some changes?   The mistake you libterds continually make about health insurance, and indeed about America, is that is needs _*transformation*_...


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 4, 2009)

In any event, ZONA, the opinion of someone that believes an individual without health insurance is a victim of terror, cannot be very well reasoned...


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## Zona (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> In any event, ZONA, the opinion of someone that believes an individual without health insurance is a victim of terror, cannot be very well reasoned...



over 40 thousand Americans die yearly because of the system we have now, the majority of bankruptcies that occur is because of this great system.....if that is not some sort of terrorism, I don't know what is.

3000 died on 9/11, more than that will die next month because of this great system we have.  

Still backing up the insurance companies?  Beyond reasoning indeed.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 4, 2009)

Zona said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > In any event, ZONA, the opinion of someone that believes an individual without health insurance is a victim of terror, cannot be very well reasoned...
> ...



Well, we do agree on the idea in bold.  

Health Insurance never killed anyone.  Grow up.


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## Zona (Nov 4, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



Health insurance didnt kill anyone, lack of it did.  Because of lack of it, bankruptcies happen and so does death.  

Grow up indeed.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 4, 2009)

Zona said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



Lack of insurance does not kill people.  Illness and injury do.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 4, 2009)

Zona said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



you dance as well as Rocks Zona....answer post 138....


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## Zona (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...




so if a person has an accident, or an illness, and doesnt have insurance, it wont kill him?  Cancer, car accidents...oh hell, who needs insurance...home remedy's are the best!

What sense does this make?


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## Zona (Nov 5, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > Well, if things work out, perhaps some of the people who have cancer can now actually be treated or better yet, caught in time to stop it.
> ...





Harry Dresden said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



Dance with that.  Every single thing you just mentioned happens now to people with insurance and those insurance companies can drop people for those reasons.  How is this fair?  

If they have competition, cant not accept you because of pre existing conditions, then we win.  Do you think the system works now?  If so, stay with your company, pay what you pay and leave the uninsured alone.  

This bill has nothing, NOTHING to do with you.  Keep your insurance.  $$$


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

Zona said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



No, the lack of insurance wont kill them.  Lets someone gets injured, has insurance, but does not get treatment and dies.  It is not the lack of insurance that killed them.  There are exactly two things that kill people.  Injury and illness.  

In other words, if lack of insurance killed people, We'd be short 50 million people right now.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

Zona said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



What wont kill him?  The ilnness or injury?  It might.  The lack of insurance?  Dont be stupid.    Who needs insurance?  Nobody.  You need food and water.  You need air.  Insurance is a want.


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## HUGGY (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...




You are a fool.  A willfull one at that.


----------



## Mike458877 (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Virginia Foxx: Health Care Reform Is A Bigger Threat Than "Any Terrorist Right Now In Any Country" (VIDEO)
> 
> Are you afraid yet?
> 
> ...




*What a completely ridiculous and childish title. 

I won't waste my time reading this one!

Mike*


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## HUGGY (Nov 5, 2009)

Mike458877 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Virginia Foxx: Health Care Reform Is A Bigger Threat Than "Any Terrorist Right Now In Any Country" (VIDEO)
> ...



How did you guess what the title said if you didn't read it?  Can you do any other tricks?


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

HUGGY said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > Zona said:
> ...



Another genius that believes somehow a lack of insurance has the ability to kill.  I was uninsured for fifteen years.  My lack of insurance never even tried to kill me.


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## HUGGY (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



20% of the population is nonempathetic..or in other words sociopathic.  About the same number and group that still claims to be republican.  You are not alone.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

HUGGY said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



You are either paranoid or drunk if you think people are killed by lack of insurance.  Of course, you might just be stupid.  It is illness and/or injury that kills people.


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## HUGGY (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



I don't mind so much that you promote policies that are against your own best interest ..I just find it troubling that you go out of your way to hurt good americans.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

HUGGY said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



perhaps you can show me a single individual that was killed by health insurance, or lack of it, as opposed to being killed by illness or injury


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> And it is this type of situation for which BK protection is extended.  As for being "my idiotic self" being uninsured- you are correct.  My point exactly.  I made the choice- and I dealt with the consequences- in a responsible manner.  I did not expect the government to rescue me.




And who was going to have to pay for it if you weren't able to pay it back?

Money's got to come from somewhere.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > And it is this type of situation for which BK protection is extended.  As for being "my idiotic self" being uninsured- you are correct.  My point exactly.  I made the choice- and I dealt with the consequences- in a responsible manner.  I did not expect the government to rescue me.
> ...



I was able to.  And if I hadn't- the providers would have.  And that would have passed on as higher prices.  

Lots of people buy cars they cant afford, which then ends up in a repo and a deficiency after sale, which is a loss to the car dealers and finance companies.  Perhaps we should have government force everyone to buy a car to help offset those costs....


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> 
> It's an attack on the basic framework of our country and is the institution of Tyranny



Do they force seniors to take medicare?  

Amazing how hard you guys work for the drug companies and healthcare providers regardless of how far they push.  And after 8 years of allowing them to run amock, now you want to defend them?  And then you'll say you know how to fix them?  Who trusts you?  So all you do is undermine our efforts.  Reminds me of when you guys defended the oil companies at $4 a gallon.  

Democracy, not Capitism, is what makes this country great.  

Miss Foxx is a dumb ass.  Yes her constituents are afraid and confused, because she scared and confused them.


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## HUGGY (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



Your repeticious mantra does little to obscure your hatred of americans.


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



The other day a survivor went on Thom Hartmann to say her sister was denied $ for her cancer treatment.  They fought for 4 months and finally got approval for the $.  By that time it was too late.  

And how about the people who have been bankrupted because of a lack of insurance?  You don't want to solve that problem?  Can't happen to you?  Think again.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

HUGGY said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



and your poor spelling does little to obscure your shallow intellect.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



Killed by cancer, not lack of insurance.  And what about the people bankrupted because they didn't buy insiurance?  Bankruptcy provides solid protection in such cases.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



if a lack of insurance killed people we wouldnt have to reform health insurance at all.  The uninsured would be dead, and that would be that.  But clearly, lack of health insurance does not kill people, as millions of people go years without insurance with no ill effects.  People die with insurance.  Why?  Because of illness and injury.


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



Denied treatment that would have cured her cancer.  The insurance companies killed her.  If you can't see that, I can't help you.  

So if an insurance CEO shoots you, his lawyer will say his client didn't kill you, the bullet did.  

Bankruptsy laws were changed during the Bush era so that it would be much harder for us but much easier for corporations to go bankrupt.  

Your solution to these problems are no solution at all.  Your position on issues like this are why you aren't winning elections.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...




Arguments like this are just a distraction from the real problems/solutions.  Thank God the Dems are in charge now.  When the GOP were the majority, arguments like this were actually taken seriously.  Its arguments like this that the GOP made for 8 years while the insurance companies were raising their rates 191%.  

So your solution is for us to not get sick.  Got it.


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Denied treatment that might have cured what was killing her.  Big difference.  And if an insurance CEO shoots me- he killed me.    And BK is not hard.  At all.  You might have to do a 13 as opposed to a 7, but so what?     As for solutions- what solutions have I offered?


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



No.  My argument on this thread is that a lack of insurance does not kill people, injury and illness do.  My solution?  Tort reform.  Allow for the purchase of insurance across state lines.  Expand medicare to cover the roughly ten million people that need it.  DONT TURN THE INDUSTRY OVER TO GOVERNMENT CONTROL.  Expect people to take responsibility for themselves.  Change incrementally to see what works, and avoid creating larger problems.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



LOL...Its the same...Guns don't kill people argument

Sure, if people didn't get sick, they wouldn't need health insurance


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



Ok, so treatment only cures 7 in 10.  So the insurance companies practices kills 7 in 10.  

Bankruptsy is a lot less attractive today than it was before the GOP passed laws making it harder for people but easier for corporations.  Saying it is not hard doesn't make you right.  How do you know?  Explain to me the process?  Explain you understand what changes were made to the laws in the last 8 years.  Do you even know?  

The point is, healthcare should not be bankrupting as many Americans as it does now.  Its not healthy/good for America.  We must solve this.  You might not want it solved, but enough of us do.  Hell, even people with insurance are being bankrupted with healthcare costs, or being denied because of pre existing conditions.  

Basically we needed to solve these problems when Hillary tried to fix healthcare and NOW we need to undo a lot of the things the GOP did in the last 8 years that made things even worse.  I know you won't agree, just like you probably approved of what the GOP did the last 8 years when I was complaining.  And CLEARLY I was right.  The Bush/Delay run government was horrible for the masses but great for the mega rich.  You probably fit somewhere in the middle so you don't care as much as people like me.  I do feel like the GOP's policies will negatively affect me.  Maybe you don't, and that's great.  So then vote for the rich believing that you are one of them.  But many just like you have realized, "hey, I'm getting screwed too".  And that's why Obama won and the Dems took more seats in both houses.    

So you can continue to side with the GOP on healthcare, drill baby drill, outsourcing jobs, wallmart, tax breaks for the rich and less regulations.  I hope you do.  It is what cost you the election.


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Guns dont kill people.  People kil people using guns.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



Tort reform is just a right wing distraction to get us off topics like CEO pay, pre existing conditions or the fact that pooling us all together would reduce costs dramatically.    That lame old argument again?  LOL.  Ok, so you just saved us each a nickle on our healthcare costs.  What else you got?  Reminds me of Drill Baby Drill when the GOP wanted to give the oil companies all our land and natural resources for NOTHING.  

Tort costs take up less than 1% of healthcare costs.  

You guys would love to shift the focus away from the real problems and start talking about tort reform.

PS.  When they say tort reform, they mean they don't want you to be able to sue when you are wronged.  What's good about that?  Just like the bankrupsy laws.  Harder for you to use the courts?  Again they got right wing voters arguing against their own self interests.

And guarantee they won't limit the corporations ability to sue and/or use the legal system to their advantage.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



If I have the antidote to a snake bite and you get bit and I don't give you the medicine, did I kill you or did the snake bite kill you?  

In a  court of law, you would be negligable.  Just like if you knew CPR and didn't help me and I died, you could be prosecuted under the good semeritan law.


----------



## amrchaos (Nov 5, 2009)

stevecox said:


> It's funny how liberals bitch about FOX News being biased, but eagerly gobble up the pandering garbage Huffington Post puts out.





That is because Huffington Post is always fair and balanced---Fox leans so far to the right that they can call Ron Paul a liberal!!


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Thats some leap you made there, froggie.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Dead is dead

Not having proper healthcare causes people to die.   Yet republicans compare those who try to obtain healthcare for Americans to terrorists


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



You righties are funny.  We are seeing the consequences of 8 years of Bush/GOP/Tom Delay run government.  The unemployment and every other problem we have right now is due to policies put in place by Reagan/Bush1/GOP run House and Senate, Clinton & Bush 2.

Start listening to Thom Hartmann on AM radio at Noon.  Air America.  Once you have both sides of the story, then you can decide who's right and who's wrong.  

And its funny you guys think the sky is falling now because of Dem policies, which is the same thing they said back during the New Deal.  People didn't want the CCC coming to their states, and it turned out to be a great idea.  They called it socialism, communism, too much government intervention.  Wrong then, wrong now.   

Anyways, the best argument you guys have is that Dems are no better than Reps when it comes to special interest.  But then you would have to address that fact your entire party is run by lobbyists.  And you can't really say Dems are the same, because you say the Dems are pushing a very radical left wing agenda that is different than the GOP.


----------



## Political Junky (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> Virginia Foxx: Health Care Reform Is A Bigger Threat Than "Any Terrorist Right Now In Any Country" (VIDEO)
> 
> Are you afraid yet?
> 
> ...


That senile old woman, Foxx, can't stop making a fool of herself.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

Bottom line, is the GOP and their politics/policies cost them a generation in voters.  They pushed too far with their devisive politics.  Hate only wins for so long.  Eventually rational people realize that gays should be allowed to marry, just like most whites knew slavery was wrong.  

The GOP completely lost the blind patriotism vote.  They didn't kick ass in Afganistan, and yet they want to call out Obama for what he does over there?  Pahleez.  

And you can only defend the oil companies and insurance companies and capitalism and free trade and tea bagging for so long before people wake up and realize they are twisting the issues.  And we are more informed with cable documentaries and the internet.    

Amazing how far the GOP will allow corporations to go.  Remember Haloburton/KBR made employees sign a waver that they wouldn't sue the company if they were gang raped?  And the GOP argued in favor of that?  They can defend anything.  But I love it because it makes them seem rediculous.  

Anyways, glad to see the GOP is getting desperate and running out of good arguments against single payer/public option.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

Political Junky said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Virginia Foxx: Health Care Reform Is A Bigger Threat Than "Any Terrorist Right Now In Any Country" (VIDEO)
> ...



I haven't been on USMB for awhile.  I'm glad to see more people on here that get it.


----------



## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



You clearly dont understand good samaritan laws, which protect individuals from liability that come to the aid of others.   And unless I was under some obligation to render you assistance, I would be well within my rights to pour the antivenin on your chest while you slowly died.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...



not receiving proper healthcare contributes to people deaths.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



*Cant stay on topic, can you...*


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...




 Brilliant analogy. When's the last time you unexpectedly had to buy a $35,000 car - or die?


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 5, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Having a Congress that says they have the Constitutional authority to FORCE people to buy health care IS worse than a terrorist attack.
> ...




No. But they force all of us to pay for it. Interesting how Republicans are fine with being force to pay for health care they don't receive.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > SpidermanTuba said:
> ...



non-responsive idiocy.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> SpidermanTuba said:
> 
> 
> > ThePickledPunk said:
> ...





So how many bankruptcies you think are due to car notes?


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > SpidermanTuba said:
> ...



Lots of bankruptcies include debts on vehicles.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
> 
> 
> > SpidermanTuba said:
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for some time this thread has been about forcing individuals to buy insurance to defray the costs of a public option.  Because the non-insured that dont pay their medical bills contribute to higher costs.  As do those that default on car loans- which is no reason to get the government involved in forcing people to purchase cars.  Or insurance that the individual, who is in the best position to determine what he needs, decides is unnecessary.  In short- what you want is for the government to make personal decisions for us.  Because apparently you dont believe people should make their own decisions when it comes to health insurance.


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


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They make a decision not to buy health insurance up until the time they show up at the emergency room wanting critical treatment.
Then it is up to the taxpayers to pay the bill


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


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But car notes aren't the main reason for bankruptsy.  Medical bills is the straw that breaks peoples backs.  Medical bills is more often "the reason" when people are asked why they went bankrupt.  And what about the people that suck it up, don't go bankrupt and just spend the rest of their lives paying off that $50K hospital visit?  

You guys don't care and won't do anything about it even though it is happening to way too many of your "constituents".  Now you'll call the Dems communists if they try to put your precious corporations in check?  Gotta protect the Corporations and CEO's of our country. 

If Obama and the Dems fail, we all lose.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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no, its not up to the taxpayers.  The uninsured that do not pay have no effect on your taxes.  The costs are passed on to consumers.  Just as they are in my car example.


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


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Its unaffordable for people who don't have an employer paying for it.  Even then sometimes its not enough.  Pre existing conditions or your insurance doesn't cover certain things.  Its a monopoly and needs to be put into check.  CEO's who want to make $45 billion a year don't want to cover you when you get sick.  Wake up!  

And for you Republicans.  What about your love of corporations who are paying crazy amounts of $ on healthcare.  We're the only country that makes our companies pay.  We want them to be competitive, right?  This must make right wingers heads explode.  Decisions, decisions.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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Legal judgements and unpaid taxes "break people's backs" too.  BK is a way to resolve those debts.  

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

Your statement that "you guys dont care" is about as informed as your belief that good samaritan laws create an obligation on my behalf to render you aid.  It shows just how much you understand about the world in which we live.  I don't care to see the government telling me or you or anyone else how to appropriate their budgets.  It would be more accurate for you to say that I care about the rights of everybody.  What I dont care for are the underachieving and self-righteous leftists that believe our government is better situated to make personal decisions for individual than the individuals themselves.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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Appears your parents have made some poor ones regarding your education.


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

> As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.



How callous

Take responsibility for yourself?

If you have a child that has leukemia, you expect people to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment?
If you get cancer and can no longer work, it is OK with you that people lose their insurance and their homes in trying to pay the bills?

The US is the only industrialized nation that allows people to go into poerty because of healthcare bills. People in other countries are amazed at how little we care for our own.

And we are the richest nation on  earth


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

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That stuff about government making your personal decisions is bs.  I hope you know that.  That's just Rush/Fox puttin the fear in you about liberal/progressives.  When you get into the specifics, that's just downright a distraction to the real problems.    

The issues are these.

1.  The insurance companies are FOR PROFIT and they are gouging us and we need to put them in check.  It may be better that government run single payer than FOR PROFITS because they are corrupt/greedy.

2.  They are denying people healthcare to maximize their profits.

3.  They aren't covering pre existing conditions.  

4.  Healthcare is not affordable enough and government might need to regulate this.

There is no question that these things are true.  And most likely, you can even argue that these things are ok.  I wouldn't be surprised.  Republicans/Righties can argue anything.  Luckily, we run the government now.  This is the New Deal and you righties argued with FDR too.  

Your lobbyists have even gotten to many of our Democrats.  But we will lean on them and get er done.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> > As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.
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*yet the line to get in here stretches for miles and miles...*


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> > As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.
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Can you imagine how expensive water would be if we let private for profit companies run our water system?


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

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Yes, with people who are willing to work for much less than you, and employers/corporations who are willing to hire them on the DL.  

And they get free healthcare.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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*God help us.  We will destroy a system that works for 200 million+ people.*


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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I just cant believe you are older than ten.


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

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How many of those 200 million could leave an employer and end up with a pre existing condition that their new employers healthcare provider won't cover?  

And most of you who are arguing to "leave your healthcare alone", won't be able to afford it in 10 years.  

PS.  If I'm 10, I bet you aren't smarter than a 5th grader.


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

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Well you wanted to brag about the line to get in.  If you want to discuss the people coming in, I'm more than willing.  And they get free healthcare in our emergency rooms.  You want to talk about tort reform.  Drop in the bucket compared to the free healthcare you provide illegals.  

PS.  Look into all the people/corporations leaving.  Haloburton moved its HQ to the Arab Emerits.  Took their Bush tax cuts out of the country.  No trickle down there.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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What are good samaritan laws again?   HAHAHAHAHA


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that.   Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

> And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.



Ummmmm....how did we do with those "pro-business" republicans in control for eight years?

Stock Market lost 33%

Unemployment doubled

Fact is American business is at a disadvantage worldwide because they have to pay healthcare, Nationalized healtcare would be good for all businesses except for the insurance companies who make billions denying coverage


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

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You don't care that our corporations can't compete globally because they are forced to pay for healthcare.  Why aren't you anti corporation?  All of the sudden you care about jobs staying in America?  You didn't when it was manufacturing, now you cry for the healthcare industry?  Don't threaten jobs leaving when we know you want cheap foreign labor regardless.  Arguing with righties is like wack a mole.  I squash one bad argument, you come up with another, and so on.....

Healthcare providers can leave to another country and we can come up with new providers to pay for them or have the government run healthcare if its too much of a burden on your precious corporations.  

And remember, you would fight any regulations that deal with those companies that decide to offshore.  And of course they would leave if free trade isn't fair.  Every other country protects its labor.  Only we haven't since Reagan.  

In your world, the corporations make the rules.  If they don't get their way, they'll leave.  And we wouldn't have a government with the power to regulate them.  What's the end game?


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> > And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.
> 
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They hate having their own arguments thrown back at them.  

Fact, this would make our companies more competitive on a global market.  

I bet this is a bigger issue than tort reform that they seem to want to focus on.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> > And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.
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In what eight years did Republicans have both the white house and congress?


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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*Whats your argument?* *And can you please explain why such an erudite and informed thinker such as yourself believes that good samaritan laws compel me to come to your aid?*  I mean, aside from the obvious....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 5, 2009)

Zona said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > hey Zona...is the Govt going to cover EVERYONE no matter what their problem,no matter how expensive their treatment (if they have insurance with them, yes.)......is the govt going to send health care workers to someones house to take care of someone who needs professional help (perhaps, depends on the situation).....are they going to cover catastrophic illnesses(yes)....surgeries that cost 6 figures.....are they going to help the elderly cover costs if they need to go to a home OR are they going to ask for their house to be signed over to them(the way the sytem works now is, people give up their hoses or die because of the caps, you do know this right?  Bankruptcies, lose houses etc etc).....and one final question.....if this plan that Pelosi thinks is so hot....is that great.....is Congress going to join the peasants and be on this plan also(they already have insurance, why would they, why would you?)....
> ...



hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 5, 2009)

*quote=Harry Dresden*...is the Govt going to cover EVERYONE no matter what their problem,no matter how expensive their treatment .*..QUOTE=Zona*-if they have insurance with them, yes.
*quote=Harry Dresden*.....what if they cant afford the Ins...now what?.......

*quote=Harry Dresden*.....is the govt going to send health care workers to someones house to take care of someone who needs professional help?.........* quote=Zona..*...perhaps, depends on the situation.....*quote=Harry Dresden*.....WHOM gets to make that call?

*quote=Harry Dresden*....are they going to cover catastrophic illnesses and surgeries that cost 6 figures?......*quote=Zona*.....yes.....*quote=Harry Dresden.*....over in the other threads the Pro-UHC people were saying NO....expense has got to be figured in...the high cost stuff NO....they said only the "affordable illnesses.....mmmm....

*quote=Harry Dresden*.......are they going to help the elderly cover costs if they need to go to a home OR are they going to ask for their house to be signed over to them...*...QUOTE=Zona*......the way the sytem works now is, people give up their hoses or die because of the caps, you do know this right?  Bankruptcies, lose houses etc etc.......*quote=Harry Dresden*....that was my question....you did not answer it.....are they going to have to give the Govt their assets to be cared for?....this is the same as a Bankruptcy,only the govt is taking everything......


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > > And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.
> ...




Oh excuse us.  You had Bush for 8 and the GOP ran everything for 6 of 8.  

You also had Reagan for 8, Bush 1 for 4 and Clinton was just as bad with things like NAFTA for his 8 years.  

And now we see the lobbyists/special interest own a bunch of our "blue dogs".  

Bottom line is that on every issue, the GOP have been anti people and pro corporations.  Perfect example is John Roberts of the Supreme Court.  He sides with corporations and against people every time he makes a ruling.  

Deregulations was the GOP's puppy, no?  And we now know that the things they deregulated are the very things that led to the housing and job market and the stock market collapses?  Whether it was the Newt GOP of the 90's or the Tom Delay's of the 2000's, we know the GOP ruined the American way for millions of Americans.  

Now we must lean on the "blue dog Democrats" to stop siding with the GOP and special interest.


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 5, 2009)

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Yeah.  it will be a great day when another 1/6 of our economy is turned from the hands of the private sector over to the public sector.


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## rightwinger (Nov 5, 2009)

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> rightwinger said:
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> ...



Come on Punk...stop ducking

Where are all those jobs the Bush tax cuts were going to bring?

How bout the "trickle down" from tax cuts and deregulation of business?

I thought your party was good for business....why do we only get economic surges during Democratic control?


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

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Everyone will be covered.  We will be spreading the risk so the masses will bear the expense.  If one person goes to the doctor a lot, consider 9 out of 10 people rarely go.  

Think about how insane medicare for seniors is.  They lump all the oldest people together in a plan.  So the costs must be outragous.  They all use the doctors a lot.  Let young people buy in and pay about $100 a month and they can get exactly what you old farts get.  They won't use it as much as you old folks do so they will actually bring down the costs.  

And the insurance companies will have to lower their prices to try to gain new customers.  Its brilliant.


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## sealybobo (Nov 5, 2009)

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Why is it you condemn Barnie Frank for doing what he did but you don't mind that Republicans do the same things?

And do you know why you don't outsource war to For profits?  They never want the war to end.  It would be bad for business.

What's my point?  Some things should not be run by for profits.  Healthcare is one of those things.  At least not unregulated for profits.  Same for oil.  It should be regulated.  And the oil companies pushed too far too and we almost had to socialize them too.  Notice they don't try to charge $4 on the Dems watch.  

So the Dems are $1.50 a gallon better than the GOP.  You can actually put a number on it now.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 5, 2009)

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How many?


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> for some time this thread has been about forcing individuals to buy insurance to defray the costs of a public option.



The government already forces us to buy health insurance. We just can't use it till we're old. Its called Medicare.



> In short- what you want is for the government to make personal decisions for us.


Like who one gets to marry? Or what drugs an adult may do in the privacy of their own home? Or how much of our income we have to pay in taxes (see the 16th amendment)?



> Because apparently you dont believe people should make their own decisions when it comes to health insurance.



Apparently, you have no brain.


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## SpidermanTuba (Nov 5, 2009)

ThePickledPunk said:


> no, its not up to the taxpayers.  The uninsured that do not pay have no effect on your taxes.  The costs are passed on to consumers.



I dunno about you, but I'm both a taxpayer and a consumer, and a dollar taken from me is a dollar taken from me. Why do I care whether its passed to me the consumer or me the taxpayer - we're the same person!



> Just as they are in my car example.



You have yet to provide any evidence that unpaid car notes are anywhere close to the level of unpaid medical bills in this country. I don't know ANYONE with an unpaid $750,000 car note!


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## sealybobo (Nov 6, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
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> ...



I bet Republicans would not have been for the war in Iraq if it was passed on them as consumers rather than how Bush just put it on the debt and/or borrowed the money from China.  

So clearly republicans prefer the government take on the costs rather than us consumers, right?


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 6, 2009)

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*
More than likely, business will simply dump employee coverage to save money.    Great plan*


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 6, 2009)

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*Such a rudimentary understanding of economics.  Do not try to start your own business. Always be an employee.  Its the only chance you have in life.*


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 6, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
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> > for some time this thread has been about forcing individuals to buy insurance to defray the costs of a public option.
> ...




*Well, I least I have the balls to make my own decisions and the courage to take responsibility for those decisions.  I will take that over your spineless, gutless, and irresponsible "intellectualism" (translate: emasculation) any day.*


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## ThePickledPunk (Nov 6, 2009)

SpidermanTuba said:


> ThePickledPunk said:
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> ...


*
What difference does that make, if your premise is that government should make decisions for all of us if poor decision making causes price increases?  If you want to take over 1/6 of the economy- why not just take the whole damn thing and be done?  Is it that some personal decisions are just too important to make?  Do you need health insurance so badly that I cannot be trusted to make that determination for myself?  Why should any of your needs be so important as to dictate what my needs are?  I really need a car.  Maybe you should have to buy one too.  *


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 6, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> Harry Dresden said:
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> > hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....
> ...


sure about that Bo....EVERYONE?.....NO exceptions....no matter how expensive their condition is?......


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## sealybobo (Nov 6, 2009)

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It didn't happen in Canada overnight, or everywhere all at once.  It started in one province, worked, and then other provinces copies it.


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## sealybobo (Nov 6, 2009)

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I understand I'm an employee, so I am pro labor/union.  I totally understand the employers position on every issue.  I just disagree.  I understand they think they deserve more of the profits.  It is in the companies nature to want to push too far on this.  That's why we have government/labor laws.  

And today we aren't organized, so wages have gone down, or flatlined.  But the cost of everything went up.  So technically, you make less.  Millions have experienced this.  Even at my company, we all took a % cut.  What are we going to do, go to the competition?  Their doing it too.  

And I don't mind in bad times, but they were cutting wages when corporate profits were up, like in 2005 and 06 and 07.  Then they purposely tanked the economy.  

So either one of three things has to happen.  

1.  The liberals pass pro labor bills to increase wages.  Fix what is wrong for the middle class.  People going further into debt just to maintain a basic standard of living.  Fix NAFTA and put tariffs back on some imports.  Not all, but on things that are important to american manufacuturing.  Basically do what every other country is doing.  Only America has zero protections.  

2.  Free healthcare so it free's up disposable income

3.  Unions become more popular again.  They've been crushed since Reagan and are almost irrelivent.  

4.  More jobs.  If there are more jobs than there are workers, then wages go up.  Greenspan said part of his job was to keep unemployment at a certain level because of wages.  So he admits it.  That means illegals go home.  That means we bring some manufacturing jobs home too.  I hope Obama/Pelosi/Reed deal with this next year.


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## sealybobo (Nov 6, 2009)

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You don't make any decision.  The company you work for decides who your insurance provider is.  Take it or leave it.  And there is no other option.  Its not like you get a pick of providers.  

Now maybe you are self employeed?  Ok, you can still pick.  Pay $2000 a month for private insurance or $150 for the Government plan.  

I wonder why large companies like GE or Ford who have thousands of workers aren't more vocally supporting the idea of single payer/gov run healthcare???  It would take a huge cost off their plates.  They want to be competitive with other nations who all provide their citizens with healthcare.  I love throwing this back in conservatives faces.  

But the Corporate media wouldn't tell us that if they were in favor of this, just like they really don't show Americans that Canadians are offended at the right wing spin being put on Canada's healthcare.  Its pretty damn good and they are proud.  THey prefer theirs to ours.


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## sealybobo (Nov 6, 2009)

Harry Dresden said:


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That's right.  And if you put us all in a pool together, those people don't add up to much.  There are millions who won't use it at all.  And we are all paying in.  

I'm assuming you know how insurance pools work?


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 6, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> I hope Obama/Pelosi/Reed deal with this next year.



you expect the 3 stooges to get this done?.....you put too much faith in these people Bo....too many of them are out of touch with reality....they have these big wonderful ideas that are going to cost people who are already hurting or not working more of what they dont have....the bubble is going to burst and then you are going to see many people going berserk towards these people.....my state is the foremost example of prosperity gone bad.....learn from it......


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 6, 2009)

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well you better visit the other threads about this Bo....those pro-UHC people over there are saying that the so called "expensive" diseases will probably not be covered ...just the nice and affordable ones....UNLESS as Zona said you are carrying a private plan along side the Public one.....of course he did not answer the question of....what if you cant afford the private one?...as apparently many cant....shit out of luck i guess.......


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