# The Solution for Preventing Illegal Immigration



## PhilipBrown

President Obama is unlawfully granting a form of "amnesty" to millions of illegal immigrants just by ignoring the current immigration law. It is very possible that future presidents will continue to follow in his footsteps and continue to neglect the law. We need to improve the way our immigration system works by giving state and local law enforcement agencies the authority to aggressively pursue their own enforcement policies rather than relying only on whomever or whatever happens to be president.

Here is a unique solution that would permanently prevent any future illegal immigration. In exchange for enacting 100 extremely tough immigration enforcement laws that mostly affect future illegal immigrants, we will grant "legal resident" status (but not citizenship) to most current illegal immigrants. The law needs to be a constitutional amendment to ensure that future congresses will not be able to repeal any of the enforcement laws or water them down. If this type of bill ever becomes law, the United States will never have an illegal immigration problem ever again. Below is the framework that both democrats and republicans will reluctantly vote for.

*ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM ACT OF 2015*​

*=========[ ENFORCEMENTS ]=========*​
* The state, county, and local governments can ENFORCE immigration law along with the federal government if they want, but they would be required to use the United States Congress’ definition for citizens, legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants. The enforcement can be handled like any other unlawful trespassing law within their borders. They can decide to give jail time, fines, and even deport anyone trespassing in the United States. The federal government is not allowed to prevent or penalize states, counties, and local governments for enforcing immigration law. The states are not allowed to prevent or penalize counties and local governments for enforcing immigration law. Counties are not allowed to prevent or penalize local governments for enforcing immigration law.

* The state, county, or local governments can deport anyone found illegally in the United States, and the federal government must pay 75% of the cost of the incarceration and deportation. If anyone harbors an illegal immigrant, that person can be required to pay the full cost of that person's incarceration and deportation.

* The federal, state, and local governments can seize the property (house, car, etc.) of anyone caught in the United States illegally and sell it for a profit. (This will be a very strong incentive for state and local governments to enforce immigration laws.)

* The military will be responsible for assisting the Border Patrol in protecting and securing the United States borders.

* Public schools, colleges, and universities will require students to be citizens or legal residents of the United States to attend. This will stop many future illegal immigrants from bring their families to the United States, because they know that their children will not get an education.

* Mandatory E-Verify for all businesses. Fines and jail time for any employers or human resource manager who does not comply can be levied by the federal, state, and local governments.

* The maximum number of people who can get citizenship or permanent residence is 150,000 a year. This is a dramatic drop from the current 1,000,000 a year. This will give the United States time to assimilate new comers into our culture before adding more. The maximum number of people who can be given refugee status will be 10,000 a year. All new residences will have their fingerprints and DNA permanently added into a federal database. The eligibility of a person to become a United States citizen or resident will be determined though laws passed by congress and will not be determined through policies or executive orders passed by the president.

* A maximum of 2 million foreign visitors into the United States will be allowed at any given time. Congress can change the percentage of how many people are allowed from each visa or legal permission through normal legislative law, but the maximum number of people is fixed at 2 million. Foreign visitors who have not been confirmed as leaving the United States will still be considered to be in the United States, and no new visitors cannot take their position in the queue until they leave or 10 years expire. All new foreign visitors will have their fingerprints permanently added into a federal database.

* A minimum of 80% of the people who are given citizenship or legal permanent residence every year must be able to work, take care of themselves, and must be between the years 18 to 25. This will help ensure that our country will have a good young workforce (rather than aging and dependent immigrants) into the future.

* One of the parents of a child must be an American citizen in order for the child to automatically be considered a citizen of the United States through birth. United States citizenship is never determined by the geographical location of a person's birth.

* Proof of citizenship or legal residency must be given in order to obtain a driver's licenses or ID cards.

* No more dual citizenship. In order for citizens of other countries to be recognized as American citizens, they must officially reject the citizenship of all other countries by officially notify their home country that they reject their citizenship. Congress can define up to 180 days after the person becomes an American citizen for them to submit proof that this has been done or the person’s citizenship will be suspended.

* Anyone who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voting in a political election in a foreign state.

* No federal, state, or local programs that use federal money or state money can give social or financial aid to anyone who is in the United States illegally other than emergency medical care.

* Every United States citizen or legal resident of the United States has legal standing to sue any government agency or official to compel them to implement the full enforcement of immigration laws and ensure that they make a reasonable attempt to verify that they are not giving services or financial aid to people in the United States illegally. If the legal resident wins, he or she will be reimbursed a reasonable amount for court costs and attorney's fees.

* Every government agency has the right to refuse their services to anyone who cannot prove that they are legal residents.

* A specific double-layered fence must protect 95 percent of our southern border or the legal status for people under this program will be suspended after 6 years, until this metric is met.

* An entry/exit system that requires foreign visitors to submit the cost of a return plane ticket to their home country plus an additional 10 percent more before they arrive in the United States. The payment is held by the United States government in exchange for travel ticket vouchers. When the visitors are ready to leave, they can exchange the vouchers for any type of non-refundable travel tickets which has destinations outside of the United States.

* English is the official language of the United States. All federal business with the federal government must be done in English. No government agency will be required or compelled to provide translators except when the person is suspected of a crime. No government agency other than law enforcement or the military is allowed to require knowledge of a foreign language as part of its job requirement, preference, or description.

* The United States will refuse to issue visas to the residents of other countries that refuse to accept their citizens who are being deported.

* No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to remain, even by the President of the United States. They must leave the United States for a minimum of 10 years before they can be eligible for lawful re-entry, with the limited exception of the 10,000 a year given refugee status.

* Neither the president nor any federal agencies is allowed to prioritize one group of deportable illegal immigrants over another group of deportable illegal immigrants. All deportable illegal immigrants must be equal in reference to removal priority.

* Anyone who is identified by law enforcements on two separate occasions as being in the United States illegally can never receive citizenship or permanent resident status. They may be eligible for temporary visas.

* No one who is in the United States illegally can be given permission to work, even by the President of the United States. Any higher education degree, professional license, or certification received by a person who is in the United States illegally is to be considered invalid and void.

* No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to vote in city, state, or national elections. Proof of citizenship or legal residence is required before an individual is allowed to vote.

* The FBI is required to investigate every candidate for President of the United States to verify that they meet the requirements of the Constitution to be President of the United States. Idealistically, the investigations will begin at least 180 days before Election Day unless the candidate request for it to be done earlier.

* No government agency or organization that is partly supported by federal, state, county, or local money can withhold information in their possession from any immigration enforcement government agency that can be used to identify or deport illegal immigrants.

* Whatever penalty a judge gives to legal residents who breaks a particular law, the penalty will AUTOMATICALLY be 3 times more for anyone who is in the United States illegally. In other words, if a fine is normally $100 for the average citizen, it will be $300 for anyone in the United States illegally. If a judge sentences anyone to 1 year in jail for a particular crime, the sentence will automatically be changed to 3 years if the person is illegally in the United States. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.

* Any federal, state, or local law enforcement agency can deny bail to anyone in the United States illegally if they choose to. The federal government is not allowed to prevent states and local governments from denying bail. The states are not allowed to prevent local governments from denying bail.

* Every person booked into jail by law enforcement will have their fingerprints run against federal immigration databases whenever reasonably possible to determine if they are in the United States illegally. (Similar to "Secure Communities" programs)

* If a person is in the United States and is convicted of committing murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, rape, or attempted rape while being in the United States illegally, they will AUTOMATICALLY receive a death sentence. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.

* No one who is in the United States illegally has the right to sue or receive punitive damages in lawsuits for civil crimes committed during the time they were in the United States illegally.

* If anyone proves that a business is knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, that person will receive 5% of any monetary judgment that the business must pay for committing the illegal hirings. Businesses will not hire illegal immigrants if they know the illegal immigrants they hire will squeal on them.

* A person under this program can never sponsor anyone to be a United States citizen or legal resident.

* Immigration judges are allowed to take only 2 issues into account when deciding if a defendant should be deported. 1) Is the defendant in the United States illegally based upon the United States congressionally passed immigration law? 2) Is the defendant a refugee or likely to obtain refugee status? No other factors matter. If anyone is in the United States illegally and is unlikely to be given refugee status, then that person should be deported. This should greatly speed up immigration trials.

* Congress has the power to fire anyone responsible for immigration enforcement if seventy percent of the congressmen in EITHER the House or the Senate sign a partition saying the person responsible is not properly enforcing our immigration laws. Since this only requires a signed petition, it does not have to go through the tougher process that laws go through. The person will never be eligible to hold any federal government job again.

<**** THESE ARE THE ONLY ENFORCEMENT LAWS THAT I COULD THINK OF, BUT IF ANYONE CAN THINK OF ADDITIONAL WAYS TO ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN APPEND YOUR IDEAS TO MY LIST. I WANT TO MAKE THIS THE TOUGHEST IMMIGRATION LAW IN THE WORLD. ****>


*============[ AMNESTY ]============*​
* We will give the 11 million illegal immigrants who register “legal resident status” and "work visas," but not direct citizenship. Most of the people who are in the United States illegally are more concerned about being able to work in the U.S. without fear of deportation than they are about citizenship. Most cherish the citizenship of their home country more. The registration period will last for only one year after the constitutional amendment becomes law. After that, no one else can register.


*=====[ RESTRICTIONS ON AMNESTY ]=====*​
The following are restrictions that can cancel an individual’s “legal resident status” and "work visa."

* Illegal immigrants cannot apply for “legal resident status” after they have been arrested by law enforcement and will potential be undergoing deportation proceedings. In other words, they do not get to apply after they get into trouble.

* Only people who can prove that they lived in the United States before January 1, 2013 qualify for legal residency under this program, else people will sneak across the border just to get “residency.”

* People under this program cannot use their "Legal Resident Status" to become U.S. citizens. The person must go back to their home country and follow the normal procedures that every other citizen of their country needs to follow to get U.S. citizenship. They cannot live in the United States during this process.

* People under this program cannot get federal assistance or Social Security, unless they become United States citizens.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of any felonies in the past, present, or future.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future misdemeanors.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future drunken driving violations.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, transporting, or distributing drugs.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they vote in a federal or state election while they are only legal residences.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they participate in any political protest rallies or political protest events.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of benefit fraud or tax fraud in the future.

* People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, using, possessing, or distributing fictitious or stolen identification information for illegal purposes in the future.


*=======[ QUESTIONS and ANSWERS ]=======*​

*WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
This bill gives them the ability to live in the United States without fear of deportation as long as they do not break any major criminal laws. This is something that they have been fighting for years to obtain. Since this bill mostly stops future illegal immigrants, I can see a situation where both the pro-amnesty and anti-amnesty groups join forces in order to make Congress pass this constitutional amendment.

*
WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
The Senate has voted three times to legalize illegal immigrants and we were BARLEY able to stop the legislation in the republican-controlled House of Representatives. If we continue down this same path, we may be able to block them for 2, 5, 10 or even 20 years, but eventually the democrats will regain control over the government and will offer them citizenship and voting rights. No amount of protesting that we do will be able to stop it. The only reason why it has not already passed is that Pres. Obama was more concerned about ObamaCare which became law without a single republican vote? We are going to be steamed-rolled because most republican congressmen are willing to vote for amnesty.

If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the First Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to free speech and religion a long time ago. If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the Second Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to bear arms a long time ago. If we do not have the wisdom to pass a bill with lots of enforcements in exchange for legal residence NOW, a future democrat-controlled Congress and White House will pass a bill which has no enforcements and gives illegal immigrants citizenship LATER. From that day forward, the United States will become an "open borders" community and THE ENTIRE WORLD will be given the right to live in the United States. We need to win this battle while we still have the leverage on our side. Trying to keep things like they are is a losing strategy.

I think it is safe to say that every future President of the United States will follow in the footsteps of President Obama and simply find it easier to simply ignore immigration law than to enforce it. This bill enforces illegal immigration on numerous levels, rather than hoping that any current President of the United States will enforce the laws. If this constitutional amendment becomes law, we will end up with A LOT LESS illegal immigrants within a few years. I consider this to be an anti-amnesty bill because it will eventually prevent a lot more amnesties than would occur once the democrats are in control. This type of constitutional amendment is a permanent fix to stopping all future illegal immigration problems.

*
WILL DEMOCRATS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
No. The democrat will demand that illegal immigrants be given “citizenship” rather than just “legal residency,” but most of their pro-amnesty supporters would be completely satisfied with “legal residency” and would be angry at the democrats if they rejected a deal that would do this. The democrats may fracture their support base if they oppose this bill.


*WILL REPUBLICANS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
No. The republicans will be getting an extremely strong immigration enforcement measure that will likely endure throughout all eternity because it is a constitutional amendment. Future generations will not have to fight over this same topic again. Even though offering the current illegal immigrants the privileges of legal residency is extremely regrettable, America will benefit over the years by defining our immigration law in solid stone NOW. Also, this will be one issue democrats will no longer be able to attack republicans with.

*
WHAT IF REPUBLICANS JUST CREATE A LAW THAT GIVES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS LEGAL RESIDENCY?*
Even if Republicans creates a simple law that just gives legal residency to illegal immigrants this year, democrats will simply push for a bill that will convert the legal residency into citizenship next year. This amendment will prevent illegal immigrants from becoming citizens or voters.


*WHY PASS MORE LAWS IF THE CURRENT ONES ARE BEING IGNORED?*
In the current system, ALL OF THE POWER to deport illegal immigrants rest with the President of the United States; which means that if he decides not to enforce the law, then there is nothing that Congress, the Supreme Court, or the People can do about it. My law will allow every law enforcement agencies to be able to deport illegal immigrants. There are only 5000 ICE agents nationwide, but there are 900,000 law enforcements officers nationwide. It is really difficult for 5000 ICE agents to round up 20 million illegal immigrants. This job would be handle better by the law enforcement officers.

Even if the federal government refuses to deport the illegal immigrants, the states, counties, and local cities can deport them on their own, and make a profit at the same time. A number of sections of the law do not even require the President or immigration officials to do anything, but only requires that the laws be in existents so that others can enforce them. These laws turn off ALL THE ENTICING MAGNETS that tempt illegal immigrants to break into United States. They will stop coming on their own.


*WOULN’T GIVING LEGAL STATUS ENCOURAGE MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?*
No. Congress would be prevented from granting legal status to any future illegal immigrants without overturning this constitutional amendment. There will never be another wave if illegal immigrants looking for amnesty.


*SHOULDN'T CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS BE BRIEF?*
Instead of making this a large constitutional amendment, I would make it a normal legislative bill called, "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015," and then create a constitutional amendment saying that "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015" is now constitutional law.

All constitutional amendments should be brief to avoid legal wrangling over its meanings. It would be more accurate to view this illegal immigration bill as having over 30 INDIVIDUAL Constitutional Amendments in the "Enforcement" section and that no section is in any way depended on the other sections. Each section is totally autonomous and do not interact with the other sections in any way other than they all address the subject of immigration.

Compare this to if the Bill of Rights would have been written as one single Constitutional Amendment, rather than ten. Each section operate by itself and does not require any other sections to operate correctly. The "Restriction" section merely puts limits on the "Amnesty" section, and thus does not modify already existing laws.


*IS THIS THE COMPLETE BILL?*

No. This bill is far from perfect. I created this bill as more of a "starting point" of ideas and hope that other people smarter than I would improve upon it. I currently have 40 immigration enforcements as part of this law, but I am completely in favor of adding more. This bill will enshrine tough enforcement principles into a solid constitutional amendment. It prevents future Congresses from being able to legalize the next wave of illegal immigrants and it removes the magnets that cause them to sneak to the United States in the first place.


*WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM OTHER “RIGHT MOVEMENTS”?*
Many groups that claim that their "Rights" are being violated will win over time. It often takes decades for the groups to reshape the minds of society and to get politicians to enact laws favorable to their worldviews, but eventually it does happen. Some of the most notable "Rights Movements" within the last 100 years are, "Women’s Right to Vote," "Black Civil Rights," "Abortion Rights," and "Gay Marriage Rights." All of these groups have fulfilled the bulk of their original goals, but it took decades for them to win. At the beginning of each movement, they encountered a lot of resistance from people who strongly opposed them and felt that if they would simply "stand strong for their principles," they would ultimately prevail against the “Rights Movements.” After several decades, the "Rights" groups would eventually convenience enough people to support their cause and influence enough politicians to enact supporting laws. I see the "Illegal Immigration Rights" groups as just another "Rights Movement" group that will eventually win citizenship for illegal immigrants and open borders for the rest of the world if the situation continues on its current course. Just "standing strong" against illegal immigration will not protect us forever. We need to change the laws NOW so that the pro-amnesty groups cannot change the laws LATER.

Philip Brown

YouTube Video link:

This document can be download in Microsoft Word, PDF, HTML, and text format at the following link:
Dropbox - Illegal Immigration Reform Act


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## pismoe

I didn't read through the whole thing .    So you know where I'm coming from I oppose ALL immigration into the USA .   That being said its looks to me that in the first couple sentences of your solution that you'd be building a 2 class society .    That'd never stand imo Philip !!


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## Moonglow

He will keep the illegals out by boring them to death with tyrannical edicts....


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## Oldglory1

PhilipBrown said:


> President Obama is unlawfully granting a form of "amnesty" to millions of illegal immigrants just by ignoring the current immigration law. It is very possible that future presidents will continue to follow in his footsteps and continue to neglect the law. We need to improve the way our immigration system works by giving state and local law enforcement agencies the authority to aggressively pursue their own enforcement policies rather than relying only on whomever or whatever happens to be president.
> 
> Here is a unique solution that would permanently prevent any future illegal immigration. In exchange for enacting 100 extremely tough immigration enforcement laws that mostly affect future illegal immigrants, we will grant "legal resident" status (but not citizenship) to most current illegal immigrants. The law needs to be a constitutional amendment to ensure that future congresses will not be able to repeal any of the enforcement laws or water them down. If this type of bill ever becomes law, the United States will never have an illegal immigration problem ever again. Below is the framework that both democrats and republicans will reluctantly vote for.
> 
> *ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM ACT OF 2015*​
> 
> *=========[ ENFORCEMENTS ]=========*​
> * The state, county, and local governments can ENFORCE immigration law along with the federal government if they want, but they would be required to use the United States Congress’ definition for citizens, legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants. The enforcement can be handled like any other unlawful trespassing law within their borders. They can decide to give jail time, fines, and even deport anyone trespassing in the United States. The federal government is not allowed to prevent or penalize states, counties, and local governments for enforcing immigration law. The states are not allowed to prevent or penalize counties and local governments for enforcing immigration law. Counties are not allowed to prevent or penalize local governments for enforcing immigration law.
> 
> * The state, county, or local governments can deport anyone found illegally in the United States, and the federal government must pay 75% of the cost of the incarceration and deportation. If anyone harbors an illegal immigrant, that person can be required to pay the full cost of that person's incarceration and deportation.
> 
> * The federal, state, and local governments can seize the property (house, car, etc.) of anyone caught in the United States illegally and sell it for a profit. (This will be a very strong incentive for state and local governments to enforce immigration laws.)
> 
> * The military will be responsible for assisting the Border Patrol in protecting and securing the United States borders.
> 
> * Public schools, colleges, and universities will require students to be citizens or legal residents of the United States to attend. This will stop many future illegal immigrants from bring their families to the United States, because they know that their children will not get an education.
> 
> * Mandatory E-Verify for all businesses. Fines and jail time for any employers or human resource manager who does not comply can be levied by the federal, state, and local governments.
> 
> * The maximum number of people who can get citizenship or permanent residence is 150,000 a year. This is a dramatic drop from the current 1,000,000 a year. This will give the United States time to assimilate new comers into our culture before adding more. The maximum number of people who can be given refugee status will be 10,000 a year. All new residences will have their fingerprints and DNA permanently added into a federal database. The eligibility of a person to become a United States citizen or resident will be determined though laws passed by congress and will not be determined through policies or executive orders passed by the president.
> 
> * A maximum of 2 million foreign visitors into the United States will be allowed at any given time. Congress can change the percentage of how many people are allowed from each visa or legal permission through normal legislative law, but the maximum number of people is fixed at 2 million. Foreign visitors who have not been confirmed as leaving the United States will still be considered to be in the United States, and no new visitors cannot take their position in the queue until they leave or 10 years expire. All new foreign visitors will have their fingerprints permanently added into a federal database.
> 
> * A minimum of 80% of the people who are given citizenship or legal permanent residence every year must be able to work, take care of themselves, and must be between the years 18 to 25. This will help ensure that our country will have a good young workforce (rather than aging and dependent immigrants) into the future.
> 
> * One of the parents of a child must be an American citizen in order for the child to automatically be considered a citizen of the United States through birth. United States citizenship is never determined by the geographical location of a person's birth.
> 
> * Proof of citizenship or legal residency must be given in order to obtain a driver's licenses or ID cards.
> 
> * No more dual citizenship. In order for citizens of other countries to be recognized as American citizens, they must officially reject the citizenship of all other countries by officially notify their home country that they reject their citizenship. Congress can define up to 180 days after the person becomes an American citizen for them to submit proof that this has been done or the person’s citizenship will be suspended.
> 
> * Anyone who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voting in a political election in a foreign state.
> 
> * No federal, state, or local programs that use federal money or state money can give social or financial aid to anyone who is in the United States illegally other than emergency medical care.
> 
> * Every United States citizen or legal resident of the United States has legal standing to sue any government agency or official to compel them to implement the full enforcement of immigration laws and ensure that they make a reasonable attempt to verify that they are not giving services or financial aid to people in the United States illegally. If the legal resident wins, he or she will be reimbursed a reasonable amount for court costs and attorney's fees.
> 
> * Every government agency has the right to refuse their services to anyone who cannot prove that they are legal residents.
> 
> * A specific double-layered fence must protect 95 percent of our southern border or the legal status for people under this program will be suspended after 6 years, until this metric is met.
> 
> * An entry/exit system that requires foreign visitors to submit the cost of a return plane ticket to their home country plus an additional 10 percent more before they arrive in the United States. The payment is held by the United States government in exchange for travel ticket vouchers. When the visitors are ready to leave, they can exchange the vouchers for any type of non-refundable travel tickets which has destinations outside of the United States.
> 
> * English is the official language of the United States. All federal business with the federal government must be done in English. No government agency will be required or compelled to provide translators except when the person is suspected of a crime. No government agency other than law enforcement or the military is allowed to require knowledge of a foreign language as part of its job requirement, preference, or description.
> 
> * The United States will refuse to issue visas to the residents of other countries that refuse to accept their citizens who are being deported.
> 
> * No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to remain, even by the President of the United States. They must leave the United States for a minimum of 10 years before they can be eligible for lawful re-entry, with the limited exception of the 10,000 a year given refugee status.
> 
> * Neither the president nor any federal agencies is allowed to prioritize one group of deportable illegal immigrants over another group of deportable illegal immigrants. All deportable illegal immigrants must be equal in reference to removal priority.
> 
> * Anyone who is identified by law enforcements on two separate occasions as being in the United States illegally can never receive citizenship or permanent resident status. They may be eligible for temporary visas.
> 
> * No one who is in the United States illegally can be given permission to work, even by the President of the United States. Any higher education degree, professional license, or certification received by a person who is in the United States illegally is to be considered invalid and void.
> 
> * No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to vote in city, state, or national elections. Proof of citizenship or legal residence is required before an individual is allowed to vote.
> 
> * The FBI is required to investigate every candidate for President of the United States to verify that they meet the requirements of the Constitution to be President of the United States. Idealistically, the investigations will begin at least 180 days before Election Day unless the candidate request for it to be done earlier.
> 
> * No government agency or organization that is partly supported by federal, state, county, or local money can withhold information in their possession from any immigration enforcement government agency that can be used to identify or deport illegal immigrants.
> 
> * Whatever penalty a judge gives to legal residents who breaks a particular law, the penalty will AUTOMATICALLY be 3 times more for anyone who is in the United States illegally. In other words, if a fine is normally $100 for the average citizen, it will be $300 for anyone in the United States illegally. If a judge sentences anyone to 1 year in jail for a particular crime, the sentence will automatically be changed to 3 years if the person is illegally in the United States. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.
> 
> * Any federal, state, or local law enforcement agency can deny bail to anyone in the United States illegally if they choose to. The federal government is not allowed to prevent states and local governments from denying bail. The states are not allowed to prevent local governments from denying bail.
> 
> * Every person booked into jail by law enforcement will have their fingerprints run against federal immigration databases whenever reasonably possible to determine if they are in the United States illegally. (Similar to "Secure Communities" programs)
> 
> * If a person is in the United States and is convicted of committing murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, rape, or attempted rape while being in the United States illegally, they will AUTOMATICALLY receive a death sentence. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.
> 
> * No one who is in the United States illegally has the right to sue or receive punitive damages in lawsuits for civil crimes committed during the time they were in the United States illegally.
> 
> * If anyone proves that a business is knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, that person will receive 5% of any monetary judgment that the business must pay for committing the illegal hirings. Businesses will not hire illegal immigrants if they know the illegal immigrants they hire will squeal on them.
> 
> * A person under this program can never sponsor anyone to be a United States citizen or legal resident.
> 
> * Immigration judges are allowed to take only 2 issues into account when deciding if a defendant should be deported. 1) Is the defendant in the United States illegally based upon the United States congressionally passed immigration law? 2) Is the defendant a refugee or likely to obtain refugee status? No other factors matter. If anyone is in the United States illegally and is unlikely to be given refugee status, then that person should be deported. This should greatly speed up immigration trials.
> 
> * Congress has the power to fire anyone responsible for immigration enforcement if seventy percent of the congressmen in EITHER the House or the Senate sign a partition saying the person responsible is not properly enforcing our immigration laws. Since this only requires a signed petition, it does not have to go through the tougher process that laws go through. The person will never be eligible to hold any federal government job again.
> 
> <**** THESE ARE THE ONLY ENFORCEMENT LAWS THAT I COULD THINK OF, BUT IF ANYONE CAN THINK OF ADDITIONAL WAYS TO ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN APPEND YOUR IDEAS TO MY LIST. I WANT TO MAKE THIS THE TOUGHEST IMMIGRATION LAW IN THE WORLD. ****>
> 
> 
> *============[ AMNESTY ]============*​
> * We will give the 11 million illegal immigrants who register “legal resident status” and "work visas," but not direct citizenship. Most of the people who are in the United States illegally are more concerned about being able to work in the U.S. without fear of deportation than they are about citizenship. Most cherish the citizenship of their home country more. The registration period will last for only one year after the constitutional amendment becomes law. After that, no one else can register.
> 
> 
> *=====[ RESTRICTIONS ON AMNESTY ]=====*​
> The following are restrictions that can cancel an individual’s “legal resident status” and "work visa."
> 
> * Illegal immigrants cannot apply for “legal resident status” after they have been arrested by law enforcement and will potential be undergoing deportation proceedings. In other words, they do not get to apply after they get into trouble.
> 
> * Only people who can prove that they lived in the United States before January 1, 2013 qualify for legal residency under this program, else people will sneak across the border just to get “residency.”
> 
> * People under this program cannot use their "Legal Resident Status" to become U.S. citizens. The person must go back to their home country and follow the normal procedures that every other citizen of their country needs to follow to get U.S. citizenship. They cannot live in the United States during this process.
> 
> * People under this program cannot get federal assistance or Social Security, unless they become United States citizens.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of any felonies in the past, present, or future.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future misdemeanors.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future drunken driving violations.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, transporting, or distributing drugs.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they vote in a federal or state election while they are only legal residences.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they participate in any political protest rallies or political protest events.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of benefit fraud or tax fraud in the future.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, using, possessing, or distributing fictitious or stolen identification information for illegal purposes in the future.
> 
> 
> *=======[ QUESTIONS and ANSWERS ]=======*​
> 
> *WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
> This bill gives them the ability to live in the United States without fear of deportation as long as they do not break any major criminal laws. This is something that they have been fighting for years to obtain. Since this bill mostly stops future illegal immigrants, I can see a situation where both the pro-amnesty and anti-amnesty groups join forces in order to make Congress pass this constitutional amendment.
> 
> *
> WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
> The Senate has voted three times to legalize illegal immigrants and we were BARLEY able to stop the legislation in the republican-controlled House of Representatives. If we continue down this same path, we may be able to block them for 2, 5, 10 or even 20 years, but eventually the democrats will regain control over the government and will offer them citizenship and voting rights. No amount of protesting that we do will be able to stop it. The only reason why it has not already passed is that Pres. Obama was more concerned about ObamaCare which became law without a single republican vote? We are going to be steamed-rolled because most republican congressmen are willing to vote for amnesty.
> 
> If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the First Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to free speech and religion a long time ago. If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the Second Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to bear arms a long time ago. If we do not have the wisdom to pass a bill with lots of enforcements in exchange for legal residence NOW, a future democrat-controlled Congress and White House will pass a bill which has no enforcements and gives illegal immigrants citizenship LATER. From that day forward, the United States will become an "open borders" community and THE ENTIRE WORLD will be given the right to live in the United States. We need to win this battle while we still have the leverage on our side. Trying to keep things like they are is a losing strategy.
> 
> I think it is safe to say that every future President of the United States will follow in the footsteps of President Obama and simply find it easier to simply ignore immigration law than to enforce it. This bill enforces illegal immigration on numerous levels, rather than hoping that any current President of the United States will enforce the laws. If this constitutional amendment becomes law, we will end up with A LOT LESS illegal immigrants within a few years. I consider this to be an anti-amnesty bill because it will eventually prevent a lot more amnesties than would occur once the democrats are in control. This type of constitutional amendment is a permanent fix to stopping all future illegal immigration problems.
> 
> *
> WILL DEMOCRATS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
> No. The democrat will demand that illegal immigrants be given “citizenship” rather than just “legal residency,” but most of their pro-amnesty supporters would be completely satisfied with “legal residency” and would be angry at the democrats if they rejected a deal that would do this. The democrats may fracture their support base if they oppose this bill.
> 
> 
> *WILL REPUBLICANS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
> No. The republicans will be getting an extremely strong immigration enforcement measure that will likely endure throughout all eternity because it is a constitutional amendment. Future generations will not have to fight over this same topic again. Even though offering the current illegal immigrants the privileges of legal residency is extremely regrettable, America will benefit over the years by defining our immigration law in solid stone NOW. Also, this will be one issue democrats will no longer be able to attack republicans with.
> 
> *
> WHAT IF REPUBLICANS JUST CREATE A LAW THAT GIVES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS LEGAL RESIDENCY?*
> Even if Republicans creates a simple law that just gives legal residency to illegal immigrants this year, democrats will simply push for a bill that will convert the legal residency into citizenship next year. This amendment will prevent illegal immigrants from becoming citizens or voters.
> 
> 
> *WHY PASS MORE LAWS IF THE CURRENT ONES ARE BEING IGNORED?*
> In the current system, ALL OF THE POWER to deport illegal immigrants rest with the President of the United States; which means that if he decides not to enforce the law, then there is nothing that Congress, the Supreme Court, or the People can do about it. My law will allow every law enforcement agencies to be able to deport illegal immigrants. There are only 5000 ICE agents nationwide, but there are 900,000 law enforcements officers nationwide. It is really difficult for 5000 ICE agents to round up 20 million illegal immigrants. This job would be handle better by the law enforcement officers.
> 
> Even if the federal government refuses to deport the illegal immigrants, the states, counties, and local cities can deport them on their own, and make a profit at the same time. A number of sections of the law do not even require the President or immigration officials to do anything, but only requires that the laws be in existents so that others can enforce them. These laws turn off ALL THE ENTICING MAGNETS that tempt illegal immigrants to break into United States. They will stop coming on their own.
> 
> 
> *WOULN’T GIVING LEGAL STATUS ENCOURAGE MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?*
> No. Congress would be prevented from granting legal status to any future illegal immigrants without overturning this constitutional amendment. There will never be another wave if illegal immigrants looking for amnesty.
> 
> 
> *SHOULDN'T CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS BE BRIEF?*
> Instead of making this a large constitutional amendment, I would make it a normal legislative bill called, "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015," and then create a constitutional amendment saying that "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015" is now constitutional law.
> 
> All constitutional amendments should be brief to avoid legal wrangling over its meanings. It would be more accurate to view this illegal immigration bill as having over 30 INDIVIDUAL Constitutional Amendments in the "Enforcement" section and that no section is in any way depended on the other sections. Each section is totally autonomous and do not interact with the other sections in any way other than they all address the subject of immigration.
> 
> Compare this to if the Bill of Rights would have been written as one single Constitutional Amendment, rather than ten. Each section operate by itself and does not require any other sections to operate correctly. The "Restriction" section merely puts limits on the "Amnesty" section, and thus does not modify already existing laws.
> 
> 
> *IS THIS THE COMPLETE BILL?*
> 
> No. This bill is far from perfect. I created this bill as more of a "starting point" of ideas and hope that other people smarter than I would improve upon it. I currently have 40 immigration enforcements as part of this law, but I am completely in favor of adding more. This bill will enshrine tough enforcement principles into a solid constitutional amendment. It prevents future Congresses from being able to legalize the next wave of illegal immigrants and it removes the magnets that cause them to sneak to the United States in the first place.
> 
> 
> *WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM OTHER “RIGHT MOVEMENTS”?*
> Many groups that claim that their "Rights" are being violated will win over time. It often takes decades for the groups to reshape the minds of society and to get politicians to enact laws favorable to their worldviews, but eventually it does happen. Some of the most notable "Rights Movements" within the last 100 years are, "Women’s Right to Vote," "Black Civil Rights," "Abortion Rights," and "Gay Marriage Rights." All of these groups have fulfilled the bulk of their original goals, but it took decades for them to win. At the beginning of each movement, they encountered a lot of resistance from people who strongly opposed them and felt that if they would simply "stand strong for their principles," they would ultimately prevail against the “Rights Movements.” After several decades, the "Rights" groups would eventually convenience enough people to support their cause and influence enough politicians to enact supporting laws. I see the "Illegal Immigration Rights" groups as just another "Rights Movement" group that will eventually win citizenship for illegal immigrants and open borders for the rest of the world if the situation continues on its current course. Just "standing strong" against illegal immigration will not protect us forever. We need to change the laws NOW so that the pro-amnesty groups cannot change the laws LATER.
> 
> Philip Brown
> 
> YouTube Video link:
> 
> This document can be download in Microsoft Word, PDF, HTML, and text format at the following link:
> Dropbox - Illegal Immigration Reform Act




You lost me with this.  " In exchange for enacting 100 extremely tough immigration enforcement laws that mostly affect future illegal immigrants, we will grant "legal resident" status (but not citizenship) to most current illegal immigrants".    No way should amnesty be a bargaining tool for enforcement.      We need these people out of our workforce and out of our country.


----------



## Beachboy

Like other posters, I am not going to read this entire OP.  Bottom line, you either support deportation, or you want a "pathway to citizenship."  I can support pathway to citizenship because the requirements are so tough, very, very few will find citizenship.  So, basically they are the same providing good reasons to dump them all back over the border.

We are missing the point here.  Let's dumb it down for all concerned.  I break into your house while you are not home.  I help myself to food, your computer and take a nap.  You come home and find me asleep.  Do you call Welfare Services or a police officer?  Well duh!  This is a no brainer, deport them all.  There is no discussion here.  U. S. Laws are being broken.

The current immigration policy is really pretty good, it presents a series of roadblocks to illegals, any way they go.  It works for me until we again implement "Operation Wetback."  Operation Wetback - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia










​


----------



## TheOldSchool

PhilipBrown said:


> President Obama is unlawfully granting a form of "amnesty" to millions of illegal immigrants just by ignoring the current immigration law. It is very possible that future presidents will continue to follow in his footsteps and continue to neglect the law. We need to improve the way our immigration system works by giving state and local law enforcement agencies the authority to aggressively pursue their own enforcement policies rather than relying only on whomever or whatever happens to be president.
> 
> Here is a unique solution that would permanently prevent any future illegal immigration. In exchange for enacting 100 extremely tough immigration enforcement laws that mostly affect future illegal immigrants, we will grant "legal resident" status (but not citizenship) to most current illegal immigrants. The law needs to be a constitutional amendment to ensure that future congresses will not be able to repeal any of the enforcement laws or water them down. If this type of bill ever becomes law, the United States will never have an illegal immigration problem ever again. Below is the framework that both democrats and republicans will reluctantly vote for.
> 
> *ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM ACT OF 2015*​
> 
> *=========[ ENFORCEMENTS ]=========*​
> * The state, county, and local governments can ENFORCE immigration law along with the federal government if they want, but they would be required to use the United States Congress’ definition for citizens, legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants. The enforcement can be handled like any other unlawful trespassing law within their borders. They can decide to give jail time, fines, and even deport anyone trespassing in the United States. The federal government is not allowed to prevent or penalize states, counties, and local governments for enforcing immigration law. The states are not allowed to prevent or penalize counties and local governments for enforcing immigration law. Counties are not allowed to prevent or penalize local governments for enforcing immigration law.
> 
> * The state, county, or local governments can deport anyone found illegally in the United States, and the federal government must pay 75% of the cost of the incarceration and deportation. If anyone harbors an illegal immigrant, that person can be required to pay the full cost of that person's incarceration and deportation.
> 
> * The federal, state, and local governments can seize the property (house, car, etc.) of anyone caught in the United States illegally and sell it for a profit. (This will be a very strong incentive for state and local governments to enforce immigration laws.)
> 
> * The military will be responsible for assisting the Border Patrol in protecting and securing the United States borders.
> 
> * Public schools, colleges, and universities will require students to be citizens or legal residents of the United States to attend. This will stop many future illegal immigrants from bring their families to the United States, because they know that their children will not get an education.
> 
> * Mandatory E-Verify for all businesses. Fines and jail time for any employers or human resource manager who does not comply can be levied by the federal, state, and local governments.
> 
> * The maximum number of people who can get citizenship or permanent residence is 150,000 a year. This is a dramatic drop from the current 1,000,000 a year. This will give the United States time to assimilate new comers into our culture before adding more. The maximum number of people who can be given refugee status will be 10,000 a year. All new residences will have their fingerprints and DNA permanently added into a federal database. The eligibility of a person to become a United States citizen or resident will be determined though laws passed by congress and will not be determined through policies or executive orders passed by the president.
> 
> * A maximum of 2 million foreign visitors into the United States will be allowed at any given time. Congress can change the percentage of how many people are allowed from each visa or legal permission through normal legislative law, but the maximum number of people is fixed at 2 million. Foreign visitors who have not been confirmed as leaving the United States will still be considered to be in the United States, and no new visitors cannot take their position in the queue until they leave or 10 years expire. All new foreign visitors will have their fingerprints permanently added into a federal database.
> 
> * A minimum of 80% of the people who are given citizenship or legal permanent residence every year must be able to work, take care of themselves, and must be between the years 18 to 25. This will help ensure that our country will have a good young workforce (rather than aging and dependent immigrants) into the future.
> 
> * One of the parents of a child must be an American citizen in order for the child to automatically be considered a citizen of the United States through birth. United States citizenship is never determined by the geographical location of a person's birth.
> 
> * Proof of citizenship or legal residency must be given in order to obtain a driver's licenses or ID cards.
> 
> * No more dual citizenship. In order for citizens of other countries to be recognized as American citizens, they must officially reject the citizenship of all other countries by officially notify their home country that they reject their citizenship. Congress can define up to 180 days after the person becomes an American citizen for them to submit proof that this has been done or the person’s citizenship will be suspended.
> 
> * Anyone who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voting in a political election in a foreign state.
> 
> * No federal, state, or local programs that use federal money or state money can give social or financial aid to anyone who is in the United States illegally other than emergency medical care.
> 
> * Every United States citizen or legal resident of the United States has legal standing to sue any government agency or official to compel them to implement the full enforcement of immigration laws and ensure that they make a reasonable attempt to verify that they are not giving services or financial aid to people in the United States illegally. If the legal resident wins, he or she will be reimbursed a reasonable amount for court costs and attorney's fees.
> 
> * Every government agency has the right to refuse their services to anyone who cannot prove that they are legal residents.
> 
> * A specific double-layered fence must protect 95 percent of our southern border or the legal status for people under this program will be suspended after 6 years, until this metric is met.
> 
> * An entry/exit system that requires foreign visitors to submit the cost of a return plane ticket to their home country plus an additional 10 percent more before they arrive in the United States. The payment is held by the United States government in exchange for travel ticket vouchers. When the visitors are ready to leave, they can exchange the vouchers for any type of non-refundable travel tickets which has destinations outside of the United States.
> 
> * English is the official language of the United States. All federal business with the federal government must be done in English. No government agency will be required or compelled to provide translators except when the person is suspected of a crime. No government agency other than law enforcement or the military is allowed to require knowledge of a foreign language as part of its job requirement, preference, or description.
> 
> * The United States will refuse to issue visas to the residents of other countries that refuse to accept their citizens who are being deported.
> 
> * No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to remain, even by the President of the United States. They must leave the United States for a minimum of 10 years before they can be eligible for lawful re-entry, with the limited exception of the 10,000 a year given refugee status.
> 
> * Neither the president nor any federal agencies is allowed to prioritize one group of deportable illegal immigrants over another group of deportable illegal immigrants. All deportable illegal immigrants must be equal in reference to removal priority.
> 
> * Anyone who is identified by law enforcements on two separate occasions as being in the United States illegally can never receive citizenship or permanent resident status. They may be eligible for temporary visas.
> 
> * No one who is in the United States illegally can be given permission to work, even by the President of the United States. Any higher education degree, professional license, or certification received by a person who is in the United States illegally is to be considered invalid and void.
> 
> * No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to vote in city, state, or national elections. Proof of citizenship or legal residence is required before an individual is allowed to vote.
> 
> * The FBI is required to investigate every candidate for President of the United States to verify that they meet the requirements of the Constitution to be President of the United States. Idealistically, the investigations will begin at least 180 days before Election Day unless the candidate request for it to be done earlier.
> 
> * No government agency or organization that is partly supported by federal, state, county, or local money can withhold information in their possession from any immigration enforcement government agency that can be used to identify or deport illegal immigrants.
> 
> * Whatever penalty a judge gives to legal residents who breaks a particular law, the penalty will AUTOMATICALLY be 3 times more for anyone who is in the United States illegally. In other words, if a fine is normally $100 for the average citizen, it will be $300 for anyone in the United States illegally. If a judge sentences anyone to 1 year in jail for a particular crime, the sentence will automatically be changed to 3 years if the person is illegally in the United States. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.
> 
> * Any federal, state, or local law enforcement agency can deny bail to anyone in the United States illegally if they choose to. The federal government is not allowed to prevent states and local governments from denying bail. The states are not allowed to prevent local governments from denying bail.
> 
> * Every person booked into jail by law enforcement will have their fingerprints run against federal immigration databases whenever reasonably possible to determine if they are in the United States illegally. (Similar to "Secure Communities" programs)
> 
> * If a person is in the United States and is convicted of committing murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, rape, or attempted rape while being in the United States illegally, they will AUTOMATICALLY receive a death sentence. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.
> 
> * No one who is in the United States illegally has the right to sue or receive punitive damages in lawsuits for civil crimes committed during the time they were in the United States illegally.
> 
> * If anyone proves that a business is knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, that person will receive 5% of any monetary judgment that the business must pay for committing the illegal hirings. Businesses will not hire illegal immigrants if they know the illegal immigrants they hire will squeal on them.
> 
> * A person under this program can never sponsor anyone to be a United States citizen or legal resident.
> 
> * Immigration judges are allowed to take only 2 issues into account when deciding if a defendant should be deported. 1) Is the defendant in the United States illegally based upon the United States congressionally passed immigration law? 2) Is the defendant a refugee or likely to obtain refugee status? No other factors matter. If anyone is in the United States illegally and is unlikely to be given refugee status, then that person should be deported. This should greatly speed up immigration trials.
> 
> * Congress has the power to fire anyone responsible for immigration enforcement if seventy percent of the congressmen in EITHER the House or the Senate sign a partition saying the person responsible is not properly enforcing our immigration laws. Since this only requires a signed petition, it does not have to go through the tougher process that laws go through. The person will never be eligible to hold any federal government job again.
> 
> <**** THESE ARE THE ONLY ENFORCEMENT LAWS THAT I COULD THINK OF, BUT IF ANYONE CAN THINK OF ADDITIONAL WAYS TO ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN APPEND YOUR IDEAS TO MY LIST. I WANT TO MAKE THIS THE TOUGHEST IMMIGRATION LAW IN THE WORLD. ****>
> 
> 
> *============[ AMNESTY ]============*​
> * We will give the 11 million illegal immigrants who register “legal resident status” and "work visas," but not direct citizenship. Most of the people who are in the United States illegally are more concerned about being able to work in the U.S. without fear of deportation than they are about citizenship. Most cherish the citizenship of their home country more. The registration period will last for only one year after the constitutional amendment becomes law. After that, no one else can register.
> 
> 
> *=====[ RESTRICTIONS ON AMNESTY ]=====*​
> The following are restrictions that can cancel an individual’s “legal resident status” and "work visa."
> 
> * Illegal immigrants cannot apply for “legal resident status” after they have been arrested by law enforcement and will potential be undergoing deportation proceedings. In other words, they do not get to apply after they get into trouble.
> 
> * Only people who can prove that they lived in the United States before January 1, 2013 qualify for legal residency under this program, else people will sneak across the border just to get “residency.”
> 
> * People under this program cannot use their "Legal Resident Status" to become U.S. citizens. The person must go back to their home country and follow the normal procedures that every other citizen of their country needs to follow to get U.S. citizenship. They cannot live in the United States during this process.
> 
> * People under this program cannot get federal assistance or Social Security, unless they become United States citizens.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of any felonies in the past, present, or future.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future misdemeanors.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future drunken driving violations.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, transporting, or distributing drugs.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they vote in a federal or state election while they are only legal residences.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they participate in any political protest rallies or political protest events.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of benefit fraud or tax fraud in the future.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, using, possessing, or distributing fictitious or stolen identification information for illegal purposes in the future.
> 
> 
> *=======[ QUESTIONS and ANSWERS ]=======*​
> 
> *WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
> This bill gives them the ability to live in the United States without fear of deportation as long as they do not break any major criminal laws. This is something that they have been fighting for years to obtain. Since this bill mostly stops future illegal immigrants, I can see a situation where both the pro-amnesty and anti-amnesty groups join forces in order to make Congress pass this constitutional amendment.
> 
> *
> WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
> The Senate has voted three times to legalize illegal immigrants and we were BARLEY able to stop the legislation in the republican-controlled House of Representatives. If we continue down this same path, we may be able to block them for 2, 5, 10 or even 20 years, but eventually the democrats will regain control over the government and will offer them citizenship and voting rights. No amount of protesting that we do will be able to stop it. The only reason why it has not already passed is that Pres. Obama was more concerned about ObamaCare which became law without a single republican vote? We are going to be steamed-rolled because most republican congressmen are willing to vote for amnesty.
> 
> If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the First Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to free speech and religion a long time ago. If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the Second Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to bear arms a long time ago. If we do not have the wisdom to pass a bill with lots of enforcements in exchange for legal residence NOW, a future democrat-controlled Congress and White House will pass a bill which has no enforcements and gives illegal immigrants citizenship LATER. From that day forward, the United States will become an "open borders" community and THE ENTIRE WORLD will be given the right to live in the United States. We need to win this battle while we still have the leverage on our side. Trying to keep things like they are is a losing strategy.
> 
> I think it is safe to say that every future President of the United States will follow in the footsteps of President Obama and simply find it easier to simply ignore immigration law than to enforce it. This bill enforces illegal immigration on numerous levels, rather than hoping that any current President of the United States will enforce the laws. If this constitutional amendment becomes law, we will end up with A LOT LESS illegal immigrants within a few years. I consider this to be an anti-amnesty bill because it will eventually prevent a lot more amnesties than would occur once the democrats are in control. This type of constitutional amendment is a permanent fix to stopping all future illegal immigration problems.
> 
> *
> WILL DEMOCRATS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
> No. The democrat will demand that illegal immigrants be given “citizenship” rather than just “legal residency,” but most of their pro-amnesty supporters would be completely satisfied with “legal residency” and would be angry at the democrats if they rejected a deal that would do this. The democrats may fracture their support base if they oppose this bill.
> 
> 
> *WILL REPUBLICANS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
> No. The republicans will be getting an extremely strong immigration enforcement measure that will likely endure throughout all eternity because it is a constitutional amendment. Future generations will not have to fight over this same topic again. Even though offering the current illegal immigrants the privileges of legal residency is extremely regrettable, America will benefit over the years by defining our immigration law in solid stone NOW. Also, this will be one issue democrats will no longer be able to attack republicans with.
> 
> *
> WHAT IF REPUBLICANS JUST CREATE A LAW THAT GIVES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS LEGAL RESIDENCY?*
> Even if Republicans creates a simple law that just gives legal residency to illegal immigrants this year, democrats will simply push for a bill that will convert the legal residency into citizenship next year. This amendment will prevent illegal immigrants from becoming citizens or voters.
> 
> 
> *WHY PASS MORE LAWS IF THE CURRENT ONES ARE BEING IGNORED?*
> In the current system, ALL OF THE POWER to deport illegal immigrants rest with the President of the United States; which means that if he decides not to enforce the law, then there is nothing that Congress, the Supreme Court, or the People can do about it. My law will allow every law enforcement agencies to be able to deport illegal immigrants. There are only 5000 ICE agents nationwide, but there are 900,000 law enforcements officers nationwide. It is really difficult for 5000 ICE agents to round up 20 million illegal immigrants. This job would be handle better by the law enforcement officers.
> 
> Even if the federal government refuses to deport the illegal immigrants, the states, counties, and local cities can deport them on their own, and make a profit at the same time. A number of sections of the law do not even require the President or immigration officials to do anything, but only requires that the laws be in existents so that others can enforce them. These laws turn off ALL THE ENTICING MAGNETS that tempt illegal immigrants to break into United States. They will stop coming on their own.
> 
> 
> *WOULN’T GIVING LEGAL STATUS ENCOURAGE MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?*
> No. Congress would be prevented from granting legal status to any future illegal immigrants without overturning this constitutional amendment. There will never be another wave if illegal immigrants looking for amnesty.
> 
> 
> *SHOULDN'T CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS BE BRIEF?*
> Instead of making this a large constitutional amendment, I would make it a normal legislative bill called, "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015," and then create a constitutional amendment saying that "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015" is now constitutional law.
> 
> All constitutional amendments should be brief to avoid legal wrangling over its meanings. It would be more accurate to view this illegal immigration bill as having over 30 INDIVIDUAL Constitutional Amendments in the "Enforcement" section and that no section is in any way depended on the other sections. Each section is totally autonomous and do not interact with the other sections in any way other than they all address the subject of immigration.
> 
> Compare this to if the Bill of Rights would have been written as one single Constitutional Amendment, rather than ten. Each section operate by itself and does not require any other sections to operate correctly. The "Restriction" section merely puts limits on the "Amnesty" section, and thus does not modify already existing laws.
> 
> 
> *IS THIS THE COMPLETE BILL?*
> 
> No. This bill is far from perfect. I created this bill as more of a "starting point" of ideas and hope that other people smarter than I would improve upon it. I currently have 40 immigration enforcements as part of this law, but I am completely in favor of adding more. This bill will enshrine tough enforcement principles into a solid constitutional amendment. It prevents future Congresses from being able to legalize the next wave of illegal immigrants and it removes the magnets that cause them to sneak to the United States in the first place.
> 
> 
> *WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM OTHER “RIGHT MOVEMENTS”?*
> Many groups that claim that their "Rights" are being violated will win over time. It often takes decades for the groups to reshape the minds of society and to get politicians to enact laws favorable to their worldviews, but eventually it does happen. Some of the most notable "Rights Movements" within the last 100 years are, "Women’s Right to Vote," "Black Civil Rights," "Abortion Rights," and "Gay Marriage Rights." All of these groups have fulfilled the bulk of their original goals, but it took decades for them to win. At the beginning of each movement, they encountered a lot of resistance from people who strongly opposed them and felt that if they would simply "stand strong for their principles," they would ultimately prevail against the “Rights Movements.” After several decades, the "Rights" groups would eventually convenience enough people to support their cause and influence enough politicians to enact supporting laws. I see the "Illegal Immigration Rights" groups as just another "Rights Movement" group that will eventually win citizenship for illegal immigrants and open borders for the rest of the world if the situation continues on its current course. Just "standing strong" against illegal immigration will not protect us forever. We need to change the laws NOW so that the pro-amnesty groups cannot change the laws LATER.
> 
> Philip Brown
> 
> YouTube Video link:
> 
> This document can be download in Microsoft Word, PDF, HTML, and text format at the following link:
> Dropbox - Illegal Immigration Reform Act


Man these conservative theories on how to stop illegal immigration keep getting kookier and kookier.


----------



## OnePercenter

Remove the reason illegals come here. Money. Remove the cause, employers. One million and tens years for every illegal hired.


----------



## Oldglory1

TheOldSchool said:


> PhilipBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> President Obama is unlawfully granting a form of "amnesty" to millions of illegal immigrants just by ignoring the current immigration law. It is very possible that future presidents will continue to follow in his footsteps and continue to neglect the law. We need to improve the way our immigration system works by giving state and local law enforcement agencies the authority to aggressively pursue their own enforcement policies rather than relying only on whomever or whatever happens to be president.
> 
> Here is a unique solution that would permanently prevent any future illegal immigration. In exchange for enacting 100 extremely tough immigration enforcement laws that mostly affect future illegal immigrants, we will grant "legal resident" status (but not citizenship) to most current illegal immigrants. The law needs to be a constitutional amendment to ensure that future congresses will not be able to repeal any of the enforcement laws or water them down. If this type of bill ever becomes law, the United States will never have an illegal immigration problem ever again. Below is the framework that both democrats and republicans will reluctantly vote for.
> 
> *ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM ACT OF 2015*​
> 
> *=========[ ENFORCEMENTS ]=========*​
> * The state, county, and local governments can ENFORCE immigration law along with the federal government if they want, but they would be required to use the United States Congress’ definition for citizens, legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants. The enforcement can be handled like any other unlawful trespassing law within their borders. They can decide to give jail time, fines, and even deport anyone trespassing in the United States. The federal government is not allowed to prevent or penalize states, counties, and local governments for enforcing immigration law. The states are not allowed to prevent or penalize counties and local governments for enforcing immigration law. Counties are not allowed to prevent or penalize local governments for enforcing immigration law.
> 
> * The state, county, or local governments can deport anyone found illegally in the United States, and the federal government must pay 75% of the cost of the incarceration and deportation. If anyone harbors an illegal immigrant, that person can be required to pay the full cost of that person's incarceration and deportation.
> 
> * The federal, state, and local governments can seize the property (house, car, etc.) of anyone caught in the United States illegally and sell it for a profit. (This will be a very strong incentive for state and local governments to enforce immigration laws.)
> 
> * The military will be responsible for assisting the Border Patrol in protecting and securing the United States borders.
> 
> * Public schools, colleges, and universities will require students to be citizens or legal residents of the United States to attend. This will stop many future illegal immigrants from bring their families to the United States, because they know that their children will not get an education.
> 
> * Mandatory E-Verify for all businesses. Fines and jail time for any employers or human resource manager who does not comply can be levied by the federal, state, and local governments.
> 
> * The maximum number of people who can get citizenship or permanent residence is 150,000 a year. This is a dramatic drop from the current 1,000,000 a year. This will give the United States time to assimilate new comers into our culture before adding more. The maximum number of people who can be given refugee status will be 10,000 a year. All new residences will have their fingerprints and DNA permanently added into a federal database. The eligibility of a person to become a United States citizen or resident will be determined though laws passed by congress and will not be determined through policies or executive orders passed by the president.
> 
> * A maximum of 2 million foreign visitors into the United States will be allowed at any given time. Congress can change the percentage of how many people are allowed from each visa or legal permission through normal legislative law, but the maximum number of people is fixed at 2 million. Foreign visitors who have not been confirmed as leaving the United States will still be considered to be in the United States, and no new visitors cannot take their position in the queue until they leave or 10 years expire. All new foreign visitors will have their fingerprints permanently added into a federal database.
> 
> * A minimum of 80% of the people who are given citizenship or legal permanent residence every year must be able to work, take care of themselves, and must be between the years 18 to 25. This will help ensure that our country will have a good young workforce (rather than aging and dependent immigrants) into the future.
> 
> * One of the parents of a child must be an American citizen in order for the child to automatically be considered a citizen of the United States through birth. United States citizenship is never determined by the geographical location of a person's birth.
> 
> * Proof of citizenship or legal residency must be given in order to obtain a driver's licenses or ID cards.
> 
> * No more dual citizenship. In order for citizens of other countries to be recognized as American citizens, they must officially reject the citizenship of all other countries by officially notify their home country that they reject their citizenship. Congress can define up to 180 days after the person becomes an American citizen for them to submit proof that this has been done or the person’s citizenship will be suspended.
> 
> * Anyone who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voting in a political election in a foreign state.
> 
> * No federal, state, or local programs that use federal money or state money can give social or financial aid to anyone who is in the United States illegally other than emergency medical care.
> 
> * Every United States citizen or legal resident of the United States has legal standing to sue any government agency or official to compel them to implement the full enforcement of immigration laws and ensure that they make a reasonable attempt to verify that they are not giving services or financial aid to people in the United States illegally. If the legal resident wins, he or she will be reimbursed a reasonable amount for court costs and attorney's fees.
> 
> * Every government agency has the right to refuse their services to anyone who cannot prove that they are legal residents.
> 
> * A specific double-layered fence must protect 95 percent of our southern border or the legal status for people under this program will be suspended after 6 years, until this metric is met.
> 
> * An entry/exit system that requires foreign visitors to submit the cost of a return plane ticket to their home country plus an additional 10 percent more before they arrive in the United States. The payment is held by the United States government in exchange for travel ticket vouchers. When the visitors are ready to leave, they can exchange the vouchers for any type of non-refundable travel tickets which has destinations outside of the United States.
> 
> * English is the official language of the United States. All federal business with the federal government must be done in English. No government agency will be required or compelled to provide translators except when the person is suspected of a crime. No government agency other than law enforcement or the military is allowed to require knowledge of a foreign language as part of its job requirement, preference, or description.
> 
> * The United States will refuse to issue visas to the residents of other countries that refuse to accept their citizens who are being deported.
> 
> * No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to remain, even by the President of the United States. They must leave the United States for a minimum of 10 years before they can be eligible for lawful re-entry, with the limited exception of the 10,000 a year given refugee status.
> 
> * Neither the president nor any federal agencies is allowed to prioritize one group of deportable illegal immigrants over another group of deportable illegal immigrants. All deportable illegal immigrants must be equal in reference to removal priority.
> 
> * Anyone who is identified by law enforcements on two separate occasions as being in the United States illegally can never receive citizenship or permanent resident status. They may be eligible for temporary visas.
> 
> * No one who is in the United States illegally can be given permission to work, even by the President of the United States. Any higher education degree, professional license, or certification received by a person who is in the United States illegally is to be considered invalid and void.
> 
> * No one who is illegally in the United States can be given permission to vote in city, state, or national elections. Proof of citizenship or legal residence is required before an individual is allowed to vote.
> 
> * The FBI is required to investigate every candidate for President of the United States to verify that they meet the requirements of the Constitution to be President of the United States. Idealistically, the investigations will begin at least 180 days before Election Day unless the candidate request for it to be done earlier.
> 
> * No government agency or organization that is partly supported by federal, state, county, or local money can withhold information in their possession from any immigration enforcement government agency that can be used to identify or deport illegal immigrants.
> 
> * Whatever penalty a judge gives to legal residents who breaks a particular law, the penalty will AUTOMATICALLY be 3 times more for anyone who is in the United States illegally. In other words, if a fine is normally $100 for the average citizen, it will be $300 for anyone in the United States illegally. If a judge sentences anyone to 1 year in jail for a particular crime, the sentence will automatically be changed to 3 years if the person is illegally in the United States. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.
> 
> * Any federal, state, or local law enforcement agency can deny bail to anyone in the United States illegally if they choose to. The federal government is not allowed to prevent states and local governments from denying bail. The states are not allowed to prevent local governments from denying bail.
> 
> * Every person booked into jail by law enforcement will have their fingerprints run against federal immigration databases whenever reasonably possible to determine if they are in the United States illegally. (Similar to "Secure Communities" programs)
> 
> * If a person is in the United States and is convicted of committing murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, rape, or attempted rape while being in the United States illegally, they will AUTOMATICALLY receive a death sentence. The judge cannot lower the penalty to a lesser sentence.
> 
> * No one who is in the United States illegally has the right to sue or receive punitive damages in lawsuits for civil crimes committed during the time they were in the United States illegally.
> 
> * If anyone proves that a business is knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, that person will receive 5% of any monetary judgment that the business must pay for committing the illegal hirings. Businesses will not hire illegal immigrants if they know the illegal immigrants they hire will squeal on them.
> 
> * A person under this program can never sponsor anyone to be a United States citizen or legal resident.
> 
> * Immigration judges are allowed to take only 2 issues into account when deciding if a defendant should be deported. 1) Is the defendant in the United States illegally based upon the United States congressionally passed immigration law? 2) Is the defendant a refugee or likely to obtain refugee status? No other factors matter. If anyone is in the United States illegally and is unlikely to be given refugee status, then that person should be deported. This should greatly speed up immigration trials.
> 
> * Congress has the power to fire anyone responsible for immigration enforcement if seventy percent of the congressmen in EITHER the House or the Senate sign a partition saying the person responsible is not properly enforcing our immigration laws. Since this only requires a signed petition, it does not have to go through the tougher process that laws go through. The person will never be eligible to hold any federal government job again.
> 
> <**** THESE ARE THE ONLY ENFORCEMENT LAWS THAT I COULD THINK OF, BUT IF ANYONE CAN THINK OF ADDITIONAL WAYS TO ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN APPEND YOUR IDEAS TO MY LIST. I WANT TO MAKE THIS THE TOUGHEST IMMIGRATION LAW IN THE WORLD. ****>
> 
> 
> *============[ AMNESTY ]============*​
> * We will give the 11 million illegal immigrants who register “legal resident status” and "work visas," but not direct citizenship. Most of the people who are in the United States illegally are more concerned about being able to work in the U.S. without fear of deportation than they are about citizenship. Most cherish the citizenship of their home country more. The registration period will last for only one year after the constitutional amendment becomes law. After that, no one else can register.
> 
> 
> *=====[ RESTRICTIONS ON AMNESTY ]=====*​
> The following are restrictions that can cancel an individual’s “legal resident status” and "work visa."
> 
> * Illegal immigrants cannot apply for “legal resident status” after they have been arrested by law enforcement and will potential be undergoing deportation proceedings. In other words, they do not get to apply after they get into trouble.
> 
> * Only people who can prove that they lived in the United States before January 1, 2013 qualify for legal residency under this program, else people will sneak across the border just to get “residency.”
> 
> * People under this program cannot use their "Legal Resident Status" to become U.S. citizens. The person must go back to their home country and follow the normal procedures that every other citizen of their country needs to follow to get U.S. citizenship. They cannot live in the United States during this process.
> 
> * People under this program cannot get federal assistance or Social Security, unless they become United States citizens.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of any felonies in the past, present, or future.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future misdemeanors.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of two future drunken driving violations.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, transporting, or distributing drugs.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they vote in a federal or state election while they are only legal residences.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they participate in any political protest rallies or political protest events.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of benefit fraud or tax fraud in the future.
> 
> * People under this program will lose their “legal resident status” if they are found guilty of making, using, possessing, or distributing fictitious or stolen identification information for illegal purposes in the future.
> 
> 
> *=======[ QUESTIONS and ANSWERS ]=======*​
> 
> *WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
> This bill gives them the ability to live in the United States without fear of deportation as long as they do not break any major criminal laws. This is something that they have been fighting for years to obtain. Since this bill mostly stops future illegal immigrants, I can see a situation where both the pro-amnesty and anti-amnesty groups join forces in order to make Congress pass this constitutional amendment.
> 
> *
> WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE AMNESTY APPROVE OF THIS BILL?*
> The Senate has voted three times to legalize illegal immigrants and we were BARLEY able to stop the legislation in the republican-controlled House of Representatives. If we continue down this same path, we may be able to block them for 2, 5, 10 or even 20 years, but eventually the democrats will regain control over the government and will offer them citizenship and voting rights. No amount of protesting that we do will be able to stop it. The only reason why it has not already passed is that Pres. Obama was more concerned about ObamaCare which became law without a single republican vote? We are going to be steamed-rolled because most republican congressmen are willing to vote for amnesty.
> 
> If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the First Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to free speech and religion a long time ago. If the Founding Fathers would not have had the wisdom to create the Second Amendment, most citizens would have lost the right to bear arms a long time ago. If we do not have the wisdom to pass a bill with lots of enforcements in exchange for legal residence NOW, a future democrat-controlled Congress and White House will pass a bill which has no enforcements and gives illegal immigrants citizenship LATER. From that day forward, the United States will become an "open borders" community and THE ENTIRE WORLD will be given the right to live in the United States. We need to win this battle while we still have the leverage on our side. Trying to keep things like they are is a losing strategy.
> 
> I think it is safe to say that every future President of the United States will follow in the footsteps of President Obama and simply find it easier to simply ignore immigration law than to enforce it. This bill enforces illegal immigration on numerous levels, rather than hoping that any current President of the United States will enforce the laws. If this constitutional amendment becomes law, we will end up with A LOT LESS illegal immigrants within a few years. I consider this to be an anti-amnesty bill because it will eventually prevent a lot more amnesties than would occur once the democrats are in control. This type of constitutional amendment is a permanent fix to stopping all future illegal immigration problems.
> 
> *
> WILL DEMOCRATS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
> No. The democrat will demand that illegal immigrants be given “citizenship” rather than just “legal residency,” but most of their pro-amnesty supporters would be completely satisfied with “legal residency” and would be angry at the democrats if they rejected a deal that would do this. The democrats may fracture their support base if they oppose this bill.
> 
> 
> *WILL REPUBLICANS OPPOSE THIS BILL?*
> No. The republicans will be getting an extremely strong immigration enforcement measure that will likely endure throughout all eternity because it is a constitutional amendment. Future generations will not have to fight over this same topic again. Even though offering the current illegal immigrants the privileges of legal residency is extremely regrettable, America will benefit over the years by defining our immigration law in solid stone NOW. Also, this will be one issue democrats will no longer be able to attack republicans with.
> 
> *
> WHAT IF REPUBLICANS JUST CREATE A LAW THAT GIVES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS LEGAL RESIDENCY?*
> Even if Republicans creates a simple law that just gives legal residency to illegal immigrants this year, democrats will simply push for a bill that will convert the legal residency into citizenship next year. This amendment will prevent illegal immigrants from becoming citizens or voters.
> 
> 
> *WHY PASS MORE LAWS IF THE CURRENT ONES ARE BEING IGNORED?*
> In the current system, ALL OF THE POWER to deport illegal immigrants rest with the President of the United States; which means that if he decides not to enforce the law, then there is nothing that Congress, the Supreme Court, or the People can do about it. My law will allow every law enforcement agencies to be able to deport illegal immigrants. There are only 5000 ICE agents nationwide, but there are 900,000 law enforcements officers nationwide. It is really difficult for 5000 ICE agents to round up 20 million illegal immigrants. This job would be handle better by the law enforcement officers.
> 
> Even if the federal government refuses to deport the illegal immigrants, the states, counties, and local cities can deport them on their own, and make a profit at the same time. A number of sections of the law do not even require the President or immigration officials to do anything, but only requires that the laws be in existents so that others can enforce them. These laws turn off ALL THE ENTICING MAGNETS that tempt illegal immigrants to break into United States. They will stop coming on their own.
> 
> 
> *WOULN’T GIVING LEGAL STATUS ENCOURAGE MORE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?*
> No. Congress would be prevented from granting legal status to any future illegal immigrants without overturning this constitutional amendment. There will never be another wave if illegal immigrants looking for amnesty.
> 
> 
> *SHOULDN'T CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS BE BRIEF?*
> Instead of making this a large constitutional amendment, I would make it a normal legislative bill called, "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015," and then create a constitutional amendment saying that "The Illegal Immigration Reform Act of 2015" is now constitutional law.
> 
> All constitutional amendments should be brief to avoid legal wrangling over its meanings. It would be more accurate to view this illegal immigration bill as having over 30 INDIVIDUAL Constitutional Amendments in the "Enforcement" section and that no section is in any way depended on the other sections. Each section is totally autonomous and do not interact with the other sections in any way other than they all address the subject of immigration.
> 
> Compare this to if the Bill of Rights would have been written as one single Constitutional Amendment, rather than ten. Each section operate by itself and does not require any other sections to operate correctly. The "Restriction" section merely puts limits on the "Amnesty" section, and thus does not modify already existing laws.
> 
> 
> *IS THIS THE COMPLETE BILL?*
> 
> No. This bill is far from perfect. I created this bill as more of a "starting point" of ideas and hope that other people smarter than I would improve upon it. I currently have 40 immigration enforcements as part of this law, but I am completely in favor of adding more. This bill will enshrine tough enforcement principles into a solid constitutional amendment. It prevents future Congresses from being able to legalize the next wave of illegal immigrants and it removes the magnets that cause them to sneak to the United States in the first place.
> 
> 
> *WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM OTHER “RIGHT MOVEMENTS”?*
> Many groups that claim that their "Rights" are being violated will win over time. It often takes decades for the groups to reshape the minds of society and to get politicians to enact laws favorable to their worldviews, but eventually it does happen. Some of the most notable "Rights Movements" within the last 100 years are, "Women’s Right to Vote," "Black Civil Rights," "Abortion Rights," and "Gay Marriage Rights." All of these groups have fulfilled the bulk of their original goals, but it took decades for them to win. At the beginning of each movement, they encountered a lot of resistance from people who strongly opposed them and felt that if they would simply "stand strong for their principles," they would ultimately prevail against the “Rights Movements.” After several decades, the "Rights" groups would eventually convenience enough people to support their cause and influence enough politicians to enact supporting laws. I see the "Illegal Immigration Rights" groups as just another "Rights Movement" group that will eventually win citizenship for illegal immigrants and open borders for the rest of the world if the situation continues on its current course. Just "standing strong" against illegal immigration will not protect us forever. We need to change the laws NOW so that the pro-amnesty groups cannot change the laws LATER.
> 
> Philip Brown
> 
> YouTube Video link:
> 
> This document can be download in Microsoft Word, PDF, HTML, and text format at the following link:
> Dropbox - Illegal Immigration Reform Act
> 
> 
> 
> Man these conservative theories on how to stop illegal immigration keep getting kookier and kookier.
Click to expand...


Yeah, the Democrats solution makes so much more sense (insert rolling eyes here) by granting amnesty.      This will just encourage the next 10 million to come here waiting for the next amnesty.    When does it end?    When the entire third world's poor and illiterate are here outnumbering our own citizens?   Yeah, that makes perfect sense.....NOT!


----------



## Oldglory1

Beachboy said:


> Like other posters, I am not going to read this entire OP.  Bottom line, you either support deportation, or you want a "pathway to citizenship."  I can support pathway to citizenship because the requirements are so tough, very, very few will find citizenship.  So, basically they are the same providing good reasons to dump them all back over the border.
> 
> We are missing the point here.  Let's dumb it down for all concerned.  I break into your house while you are not home.  I help myself to food, your computer and take a nap.  You come home and find me asleep.  Do you call Welfare Services or a police officer?  Well duh!  This is a no brainer, deport them all.  There is no discussion here.  U. S. Laws are being broken.
> 
> The current immigration policy is really pretty good, it presents a series of roadblocks to illegals, any way they go.  It works for me until we again implement "Operation Wetback."  Operation Wetback - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Nice try but no cigar.   There is no "operation w*tback" on the table.   Remove the incentives for them to remain here and they will leave on their own. And by the way, it isn't only Mexicans here illegally.


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> I oppose ALL immigration into the USA .



In other words you aren't a real American.


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## PhilipBrown

I actually agree with all the previous posts that say it is a bad idea to give people who broke into our country legal status.  The only reason why I even considered it is that I believe the illegal immigrants will get amnesty within the next 10 years; no matter how hard the pro-enforcement community protest against it.  It will most likely happen when the democrats have control over both Houses of Congress and it would not matter if the president is a democrat or republican.  Rather than waiting for congress to pass another bill similar to the Senate Immigration Bill that gives citizenship to all illegal immigrants and no real enforcements, I would rather pass a bill that gives very strict enforcements on many levels and prevents the president or congress from legalizing any future waves of illegal immigrants.

Like I said, from my viewpoint, they are going to get citizenship no matter what we do.  I am just trying to minimize the damage.


----------



## Oldglory1

PhilipBrown said:


> I actually agree with all the previous posts that say it is a bad idea to give people who broke into our country legal status.  The only reason why I even considered it is that I believe the illegal immigrants will get amnesty within the next 10 years; no matter how hard the pro-enforcement community protest against it.  It will most likely happen when the democrats have control over both Houses of Congress and it would not matter if the president is a democrat or republican.  Rather than waiting for congress to pass another bill similar to the Senate Immigration Bill that gives citizenship to all illegal immigrants and no real enforcements, I would rather pass a bill that gives very strict enforcements on many levels and prevents the president or congress from legalizing any future waves of illegal immigrants.
> 
> Like I said, from my viewpoint, they are going to get citizenship no matter what we do.  I am just trying to minimize the damage.



You're wrong,  they aren't going to get amnesty or citizenship.   Doing so would not minimize the damage anyway it would increase it.


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## EatMorChikin

Unkotare said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I oppose ALL immigration into the USA .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you aren't a real American.
Click to expand...


Real Americans want our laws enforced. Where the fuck do you stand?


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## pismoe

Unkotare said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I oppose ALL immigration into the USA .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you aren't a real American.
Click to expand...

oh geez , then again its just UNKATORE !!


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## pismoe

Unkatore is pro illegal and pro immigration 'eat more' !!


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## C_Clayton_Jones

“President Obama is unlawfully granting a form of "amnesty" to millions of illegal immigrants just by ignoring the current immigration law.”

This is a lie and factually wrong – consequently the entire premise of your thread fails.

“The state, county, and local governments can ENFORCE immigration law along with the federal government if they want...”

Wrong.

See _Arizona v. US_.

An undocumented immigrant is not 'illegal' until such time as he as been found guilty of unauthorized entry into the country in a court of law. All persons in the United States are entitled to due process of the law, including those undocumented. 

Indeed, the president's deferred prosecution policy recognizes the due process rights of immigrants, as well as being perfectly lawful and Constitutional.


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> Unkatore is pro illegal




Wrong, you lying sack of shit.


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## Unkotare

EatMorChikin said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I oppose ALL immigration into the USA .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you aren't a real American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Real Americans want our laws enforced. Where the fuck do you stand?
Click to expand...



Our laws don't prohibit ALL immigration, genius.


----------



## EatMorChikin

Unkotare said:


> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I oppose ALL immigration into the USA .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you aren't a real American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Real Americans want our laws enforced. Where the fuck do you stand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our laws don't prohibit ALL immigration, genius.
Click to expand...


I wasn't referencing legal immigration. Again I ask. where do you stand?


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## pismoe

if asking me , well I oppose ALL types of immigration 'eatmore' , I mean sure if you want to import a Warner Von Braun then that single scientist , well that's ok .   If asking Unkatore , well he likes immigration , he thinks that the USA owes immigration favors to everyone in the world . I get this impression from talking to him in earlier threads about all forms of immigration  .     He likes diversity and dissolution of the USA or something .   ----------------  Me , I mainly oppose All immigration because I don't like seeing population growth in the USA !!


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## Unkotare

EatMorChikin said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EatMorChikin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I oppose ALL immigration into the USA .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words you aren't a real American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Real Americans want our laws enforced. Where the fuck do you stand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our laws don't prohibit ALL immigration, genius.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't referencing legal immigration.
Click to expand...



And I wasn't addressing the original post to you. Keep your nose out of other people's discussions if it confuses you.


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## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> Me , I mainly oppose All immigration because I don't like seeing population growth in the USA !!




Because you're an idiot.


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## pismoe

like I said earlier  ' its just that name caller 'unkatore' as I roll my eyes 'eatmore' and everyone else !!    Sorta like a dawg barkin or a cat yowlin !!


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## Unkotare

Like I've explained to the idiot many times, we would have fallen below replacement level by now in the absence of immigration. He won't or can't understand the ramifications of that.


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## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> like I said earlier  ' its just that name caller 'unkatore' as I roll my eyes 'eatmore' and everyone else !!    Sorta like a dawg barkin or a cat yowlin !!



That's why that uncivil person is on my ignore list.    He cannot debate without insults.   Adults don't have to do that if they feel confident in their views.


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## pismoe

right on Old Glory , I ignore him with my replies that I am ignoring him . I say , oh geez , its that name calling 'unkatore' as I smile !!


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## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> if asking me , well I oppose ALL types of immigration 'eatmore' , I mean sure if you want to import a Warner Von Braun then that single scientist , well that's ok .   If asking Unkatore , well he likes immigration , he thinks that the USA owes immigration favors to everyone in the world . I get this impression from talking to him in earlier threads about all forms of immigration  .     He likes diversity and dissolution of the USA or something .   ----------------  Me , I mainly oppose All immigration because I don't like seeing population growth in the USA !!



I have no problem with legal immigration in the numbers we actually need based on job availability and resources to support them and of course keeping our population growth in check.  However, today there is a job shortage and shortages of natural and social resources  and our schools, jails, and hospitals are being overcrowded.    Any "immigrant" that could replace an American on their job simply by working for less we don't need,  IMO.

The problem is that we don't have diversity in our immigration numbers today like we used to.   Those from south of our border hold the highest quotas for legal immigration and are here by the millions illegally.    That's not diversity and leads to colonization not assimilation.  I have a problem with any ethnic group that thinks they should be above our immigration laws.     Are those the types of "immigrants" we want here?


----------



## Oldglory1

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> “President Obama is unlawfully granting a form of "amnesty" to millions of illegal immigrants just by ignoring the current immigration law.”
> 
> This is a lie and factually wrong – consequently the entire premise of your thread fails.
> 
> “The state, county, and local governments can ENFORCE immigration law along with the federal government if they want...”
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> See _Arizona v. US_.
> 
> An undocumented immigrant is not 'illegal' until such time as he as been found guilty of unauthorized entry into the country in a court of law. All persons in the United States are entitled to due process of the law, including those undocumented.
> 
> Indeed, the president's deferred prosecution policy recognizes the due process rights of immigrants, as well as being perfectly lawful and Constitutional.



Obama isn't granting them due process he is merely giving them a pass on our immigration laws by EO.   WTH is an "undocumented " anyway?    Our immigration laws refer to them as illegal aliens.


----------



## pismoe

you might like Growth but I don't OLDGLORY , I grew up when USA population was 'about' 190 million , everything was fine .  No widespread welfare , Dads working and supporting families on one paycheck , moms staying at home if they wanted too .   Things started to go to heck in the late 80s and have been getting worse since those 1990s in my opinion .  The immigration of all types just adds to the problems in my opinion .


----------



## Oldglory1

pismoe said:


> you might like Growth but I don't OLDGLORY , I grew up when USA population was 'about' 190 million , everything was fine .  No widespread welfare , Dads working and supporting families on one paycheck , moms staying at home if they wanted too .   Things started to go to heck in the late 80s and have been getting worse since those 1990s in my opinion .  The immigration of all types just adds to the problems in my opinion .



I didn't say I like growth.   For Pete's sake re-read my post.   What I said is that we have to keep population growth in check while considering any immigration into our country.   I am a senior and I remember how much better it was with fewer people here.   Even the experts have said that our population growth should have stabilized around 200 million.


----------



## pismoe

well , stop ALL immigration , the spin nowadays is that we owe foreigners the ability to immigrate  . Gotta stop it !!


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> Even the experts have said that our population growth should have stabilized around 200 million.




Link? or did you forget to pull that part out of your ass?


----------



## Unkotare

pismoe said:


> well , stop ALL immigration...




Not going to happen, fool.


----------



## Teddy Pollins

I think the best course of action would be to step up border security and limit the flow of illegal immigrants while at the same time trying to make legal immigration more attractive.
I'm not sure if ICE is worth keeping. Though I don't mind deporting convicted criminals.


----------



## Oldglory1

Teddy Pollins said:


> I think the best course of action would be to step up border security and limit the flow of illegal immigrants while at the same time trying to make legal immigration more attractive.
> I'm not sure if ICE is worth keeping. Though I don't mind deporting convicted criminals.



The problem is though that those who are coming here illegally are doing so because they can't come here legally and rightly so!   They are the poor, unskilled and uneducated and we don't need them as they are a burden to our country.  So there is no way to make legal immigration more attractive to them.   We just need to remove all the incentives for them to come here like jobs and benefits.   We should be attracting legal immigrants that offer something to our country while not replacing Americans on their jobs either.


----------



## PhilipBrown

Just out of curiosity, suppose you are a congressman the next day after the November 2016 elections.  The democrats had just gained control of the House of Representatives, the Senate with a 60 vote majority, and a pro-amnesty White House.  They are prepared to take control in January 2017.  There are two bills that will soon be considered by Congress:


_[DEMOCRAT BILL TO BE INTRODUCED IN JANUARY 2017]_
* AUTOMATICALLY give every illegal immigrant complete citizenship
* Make it easier for future waves of illegal immigrants to become citizens


_[BILL CURRENTLY BEING CONSIDERED AFTER THE NOVEMBER 2016 ELECTIONS]_
* Allows most current illegal immigrants to have limited legal status that can be revoked under certain conditions
* Give states and local governments immigration enforcements powers
* Creates many tough laws to prevent future waves of illegal immigration
* Takes away Congress's authority to give legal residency to future waves of illegal immigrants


If you knew that the democrats were planning to ram-through the democrat bill when they come into power in January 2017, would everyone here still be against using my bill to stop them?  Just curious!


----------



## Oldglory1

PhilipBrown said:


> Just out of curiosity, suppose you are a congressman the next day after the November 2016 elections.  The democrats had just gained control of the House of Representatives, the Senate with a 60 vote majority, and a pro-amnesty White House.  They are prepared to take control in January 2017.  There are two bills that will soon be considered by Congress:
> 
> 
> _[DEMOCRAT BILL TO BE INTRODUCED IN JANUARY 2017]_
> * AUTOMATICALLY give every illegal immigrant complete citizenship
> * Make it easier for future waves of illegal immigrants to become citizens
> 
> 
> _[BILL CURRENTLY BEING CONSIDERED AFTER THE NOVEMBER 2016 ELECTIONS]_
> * Allows most current illegal immigrants to have limited legal status that can be revoked under certain conditions
> * Give states and local governments immigration enforcements powers
> * Creates many tough laws to prevent future waves of illegal immigration
> * Takes away Congress's authority to give legal residency to future waves of illegal immigrants
> 
> 
> If you knew that the democrats were planning to ram-through the democrat bill when they come into power in January 2017, would everyone here still be against using my bill to stop them?  Just curious!



No, on both of these bills.   Anything that allows illegal aliens to stay here is not in the best interests of our own citizens and makes a mockery out of our immigration laws and soveirgn borders.


----------



## OnePercenter

Remove the reason illegals come here. Money. Remove the cause, employers. One million and tens years for every illegal hired.


----------



## PhilipBrown

>> No, on both of these bills. Anything that allows illegal aliens to stay here is not in the best interests of our
>> own citizens and makes a mockery out of our immigration laws and soveirgn borders.


Old Glory,

Actually, I totally agree with you that my bill is not what is in the best interest of our own citizens.  The best bill would be one that has lots of illegal immigration enforcements and absolutely no amnesty in it.  The only reason why I would even consider this bill is that I believe if we stay on our current course we will lose.  One day we will eventually hit an iceburg and sink.  Future presidents will simply stop enforcing immigration laws.  Congress will not do anything about it.  More illegals will continue to break into the country.  Eventually, the spineless congressmen will embrace amnesty, illegal immigrants, and their votes.  Then open borders will be just around the corner.  Does anyone see a brighter vision of the future?

It would be wonderful if we had congressmen who cared more about serving the American citizens more than serving themselves, but that is not going to happen.

Philip Brown


----------



## Oldglory1

PhilipBrown said:


> >> No, on both of these bills. Anything that allows illegal aliens to stay here is not in the best interests of our
> >> own citizens and makes a mockery out of our immigration laws and soveirgn borders.
> 
> 
> Old Glory,
> 
> Actually, I totally agree with you that my bill is not what is in the best interest of our own citizens.  The best bill would be one that has lots of illegal immigration enforcements and absolutely no amnesty in it.  The only reason why I would even consider this bill is that I believe if we stay on our current course we will lose.  One day we will eventually hit an iceburg and sink.  Future presidents will simply stop enforcing immigration laws.  Congress will not do anything about it.  More illegals will continue to break into the country.  Eventually, the spineless congressmen will embrace amnesty, illegal immigrants, and their votes.  Then open borders will be just around the corner.  Does anyone see a brighter vision of the future?
> 
> It would be wonderful if we had congressmen who cared more about serving the American citizens more than serving themselves, but that is not going to happen.
> 
> Philip Brown



Amnesty will never solve the problem.    All it would do is encourage more to come to get in on the next amnesty.   We did this back in 1986 remember and now we have at least quadruple the number of illegal aliens today.   At some point we are going to go bankrupt supporting these leaches and there will only be these poor peons contributing to our tax coffers while they take out way more than they pay in as they are doing now.     Much of the middle class and working poor will be unemployed.   Is that what you want?   We already have open borders with the constant promises of amnesty and lack of enforcement.  Just think of what our population growth would be also.   No, your solution is just plain wrong!

I'd take Bill #2 without the first criteria.


----------



## charwin95

You can introduce any kind of bill you want but the flow of illegals coming from the south will never stop. They will keep coming. 
It doesn't matter who's the president democrat or republican. illegals has been coming here long before Obama but people making it sounds that it's only happening now. 
Remember Bush pushed hard for immigration reform but his own republicans abandoned him. Rubio tried to pushed it and he got in trouble with his own group. So tell me. What can the republicans do about immigration? 
No link and I can't prove it but I firmly believed that if you removed the number of illegals coming from South America (non borders with US ) the number of illegals from Mexico are way down. 
I live here in California and I can see how these illegals rape my state. Sick of it. 
As I mentioned, you can do whatever you want "BUT IF YOU DO NOT SECURE THE BORDER influx of illegals will never stop. It's impossible to seal the border like north and South Korea. 
My suggestion is improve our current border security program.


----------



## Oldglory1

charwin95 said:


> You can introduce any kind of bill you want but the flow of illegals coming from the south will never stop. They will keep coming.
> It doesn't matter who's the president democrat or republican. illegals has been coming here long before Obama but people making it sounds that it's only happening now.
> Remember Bush pushed hard for immigration reform but his own republicans abandoned him. Rubio tried to pushed it and he got in trouble with his own group. So tell me. What can the republicans do about immigration?
> No link and I can't prove it but I firmly believed that if you removed the number of illegals coming from South America (non borders with US ) the number of illegals from Mexico are way down.
> I live here in California and I can see how these illegals rape my state. Sick of it.
> As I mentioned, you can do whatever you want "BUT IF YOU DO NOT SECURE THE BORDER influx of illegals will never stop. It's impossible to seal the border like north and South Korea.
> My suggestion is improve our current border security program.





charwin95 said:


> You can introduce any kind of bill you want but the flow of illegals coming from the south will never stop. They will keep coming.
> It doesn't matter who's the president democrat or republican. illegals has been coming here long before Obama but people making it sounds that it's only happening now.
> Remember Bush pushed hard for immigration reform but his own republicans abandoned him. Rubio tried to pushed it and he got in trouble with his own group. So tell me. What can the republicans do about immigration?
> No link and I can't prove it but I firmly believed that if you removed the number of illegals coming from South America (non borders with US ) the number of illegals from Mexico are way down.
> I live here in California and I can see how these illegals rape my state. Sick of it.
> As I mentioned, you can do whatever you want "BUT IF YOU DO NOT SECURE THE BORDER influx of illegals will never stop. It's impossible to seal the border like north and South Korea.
> My suggestion is improve our current border security program.



The Republicans have already offered a solution to the illegal immigration problem.  Along with better border security we need to remove all of the incentives for them to remain  here and continue to come here.  Jobs, benefits and birthright citizenship for their kids are the magnets that draw them here.   It's really that simple.


----------



## charwin95

Oldglory1 said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can introduce any kind of bill you want but the flow of illegals coming from the south will never stop. They will keep coming.
> It doesn't matter who's the president democrat or republican. illegals has been coming here long before Obama but people making it sounds that it's only happening now.
> Remember Bush pushed hard for immigration reform but his own republicans abandoned him. Rubio tried to pushed it and he got in trouble with his own group. So tell me. What can the republicans do about immigration?
> No link and I can't prove it but I firmly believed that if you removed the number of illegals coming from South America (non borders with US ) the number of illegals from Mexico are way down.
> I live here in California and I can see how these illegals rape my state. Sick of it.
> As I mentioned, you can do whatever you want "BUT IF YOU DO NOT SECURE THE BORDER influx of illegals will never stop. It's impossible to seal the border like north and South Korea.
> My suggestion is improve our current border security program.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can introduce any kind of bill you want but the flow of illegals coming from the south will never stop. They will keep coming.
> It doesn't matter who's the president democrat or republican. illegals has been coming here long before Obama but people making it sounds that it's only happening now.
> Remember Bush pushed hard for immigration reform but his own republicans abandoned him. Rubio tried to pushed it and he got in trouble with his own group. So tell me. What can the republicans do about immigration?
> No link and I can't prove it but I firmly believed that if you removed the number of illegals coming from South America (non borders with US ) the number of illegals from Mexico are way down.
> I live here in California and I can see how these illegals rape my state. Sick of it.
> As I mentioned, you can do whatever you want "BUT IF YOU DO NOT SECURE THE BORDER influx of illegals will never stop. It's impossible to seal the border like north and South Korea.
> My suggestion is improve our current border security program.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Republicans have already offered a solution to the illegal immigration problem.  Along with better border security we need to remove all of the incentives for them to remain  here and continue to come here.  Jobs, benefits and birthright citizenship for their kids are the magnets that draw them here.   It's really that simple.
Click to expand...

I might have missed it. Can you refresh my memory what republican had offered? Actually Obama keep saying "pass the bill". 
Aside from that I am with you on all your comments. 
The sad part is even if we remove all the incentives and benefits that will not stop them from coming. Because there are jobs such as agriculture, janitorial or other dirty jobs that americans don't want. I do not expect any other race that will filled these jobs when they are gone.


----------



## Oldglory1

charwin95 said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can introduce any kind of bill you want but the flow of illegals coming from the south will never stop. They will keep coming.
> It doesn't matter who's the president democrat or republican. illegals has been coming here long before Obama but people making it sounds that it's only happening now.
> Remember Bush pushed hard for immigration reform but his own republicans abandoned him. Rubio tried to pushed it and he got in trouble with his own group. So tell me. What can the republicans do about immigration?
> No link and I can't prove it but I firmly believed that if you removed the number of illegals coming from South America (non borders with US ) the number of illegals from Mexico are way down.
> I live here in California and I can see how these illegals rape my state. Sick of it.
> As I mentioned, you can do whatever you want "BUT IF YOU DO NOT SECURE THE BORDER influx of illegals will never stop. It's impossible to seal the border like north and South Korea.
> My suggestion is improve our current border security program.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can introduce any kind of bill you want but the flow of illegals coming from the south will never stop. They will keep coming.
> It doesn't matter who's the president democrat or republican. illegals has been coming here long before Obama but people making it sounds that it's only happening now.
> Remember Bush pushed hard for immigration reform but his own republicans abandoned him. Rubio tried to pushed it and he got in trouble with his own group. So tell me. What can the republicans do about immigration?
> No link and I can't prove it but I firmly believed that if you removed the number of illegals coming from South America (non borders with US ) the number of illegals from Mexico are way down.
> I live here in California and I can see how these illegals rape my state. Sick of it.
> As I mentioned, you can do whatever you want "BUT IF YOU DO NOT SECURE THE BORDER influx of illegals will never stop. It's impossible to seal the border like north and South Korea.
> My suggestion is improve our current border security program.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Republicans have already offered a solution to the illegal immigration problem.  Along with better border security we need to remove all of the incentives for them to remain  here and continue to come here.  Jobs, benefits and birthright citizenship for their kids are the magnets that draw them here.   It's really that simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I might have missed it. Can you refresh my memory what republican had offered? Actually Obama keep saying "pass the bill".
> Aside from that I am with you on all your comments.
> The sad part is even if we remove all the incentives and benefits that will not stop them from coming. Because there are jobs such as agriculture, janitorial or other dirty jobs that americans don't want. I do not expect any other race that will filled these jobs when they are gone.
Click to expand...


Romney just for starters.  Just what dirty jobs wont' Americans do?   Once e-verify were to be in place the employers would not even attempt to hire them for those so-called dirty jobs which removes the job incentive for them to come here.    The only job that most Americans won't do for a living is crop picking but for that there are unlimited H-2A visas for Legal, foreign ag workers.   Only 3% of illegal are picking crops anyway.  So you were sayin?   Americans have always done janitorial work.   Are you kidding me?


----------



## charwin95

Yes I do agree that there are americans that do janitorial jobs but at very low numbers. About 60% of my customers are hospitals all over the country. So I visit all of them every year and this where I noticed about these employees. 
H2a visa is worst than illegals coming from south. Let me explain. 
1. Farmers from countries like Asia, Central America or other continents are very poor and uneducated unless you are a land owners. Most likely they will send their best educated kids to US that has little or no agricultural experience. When they get here you have to cage or quarantine them. Nobody wants to be poor forever so as soon as they get here farming is the least jobs they want. So they scape, disappear and seek better opportunity. Now they are illegals that will take advantage of these incentives. Remember these people are required to speak English. They will also get smarter and take american jobs. 
2. Remember when you hired these H visas you are responsible for their safety plus board and lodging. Agriculture is a hard living and if you are in this business Why would you let your profits go down the drain when you can hire hispanic farmers that you don't have to worry about their board and lodging. 
In not sure where you got the 3%. Owners of the businesses that clean both of my houses are asian and Caucasian but 100% of their employees are from equador, mexico and Honduras. I also asked them about their competitors and they told me its very rare you can get an American worker. And if you find one they complain a lot, demand higher wages and they last long. 

If you ask me I don't like H visas. These people take American jobs.


----------



## Unkotare

The above poster is not a native born American, but someone with an axe to grind. ^^^


----------



## Oldglory1

charwin95 said:


> Yes I do agree that there are americans that do janitorial jobs but at very low numbers. About 60% of my customers are hospitals all over the country. So I visit all of them every year and this where I noticed about these employees.
> H2a visa is worst than illegals coming from south. Let me explain.
> 1. Farmers from countries like Asia, Central America or other continents are very poor and uneducated unless you are a land owners. Most likely they will send their best educated kids to US that has little or no agricultural experience. When they get here you have to cage or quarantine them. Nobody wants to be poor forever so as soon as they get here farming is the least jobs they want. So they scape, disappear and seek better opportunity. Now they are illegals that will take advantage of these incentives. Remember these people are required to speak English. They will also get smarter and take american jobs.
> 2. Remember when you hired these H visas you are responsible for their safety plus board and lodging. Agriculture is a hard living and if you are in this business Why would you let your profits go down the drain when you can hire hispanic farmers that you don't have to worry about their board and lodging.
> In not sure where you got the 3%. Owners of the businesses that clean both of my houses are asian and Caucasian but 100% of their employees are from equador, mexico and Honduras. I also asked them about their competitors and they told me its very rare you can get an American worker. And if you find one they complain a lot, demand higher wages and they last long.
> 
> If you ask me I don't like H visas. These people take American jobs.



You can make all the excuses in the world for hiring illegal aliens to pick crops but the fact is that they are breaking the law and that's  all that counts.   I said only 3% of illegals are picking crops not 3% are cleaning houses.   It's just lying BS that these businesses can't find a good American worker for a fair wage.   That's what they all say but in truth they can pay an illegal alien less money and that's the real reason for it.    Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.   H-2A visas are not taking job opportunities from Americans because it is seasonal work that hardly any American would want to make a career out of.  Only the young and fit can work bent over in  the sun all day.   Most Americans want real careers with a future.    We value education in this country also.


----------



## charwin95

OG, I'm telling you the reality. H2A is only seasonal that is right. Do you expect these people to go home after the harvest season? You've got to be kidding me. Do you really expect a farmer from other countries to just leave their farm and work here? No they send their kids for other opportunities. 
I never said I favor illegals to do crop picking. I hate illegals just like you are. All I'm telling you is H2 visa is no better than illegals from the south. In my opinion it's worst. 
I still want to know how you come up with all these 3 percenter. 
The truth is these H2 people will take American jobs that's the reality. Remember these are not really farmers but are educated people not just a wetback. Even tourists that comes here they violated their visa and settled here. Even at home care center for old people you do not see american workers but mostly illegal asian or hispanic. 
I don't drink koolaids


----------



## Oldglory1

charwin95 said:


> OG, I'm telling you the reality. H2A is only seasonal that is right. Do you expect these people to go home after the harvest season? You've got to be kidding me. Do you really expect a farmer from other countries to just leave their farm and work here? No they send their kids for other opportunities.
> I never said I favor illegals to do crop picking. I hate illegals just like you are. All I'm telling you is H2 visa is no better than illegals from the south. In my opinion it's worst.
> I still want to know how you come up with all these 3 percenter.
> The truth is these H2 people will take American jobs that's the reality. Remember these are not really farmers but are educated people not just a wetback. Even tourists that comes here they violated their visa and settled here. Even at home care center for old people you do not see american workers but mostly illegal asian or hispanic.
> I don't drink koolaids



Janitorial work use to be done by many poor blacks and whites but illegal aliens have taken over those jobs also.

Why shouldn't these people go home after the harvest season?  Isn't that the way the Bracero program worked.?   If the H-2A visas need fine tuning then so be it but that still doesn't excuse the farmers for breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens.   If you think they aren't doing so just to increase their profits then you aren't dealing in reality.

Here are the stats on the percentages of illegals picking crops.   There are actually less than 3%.

 Illegal Alien Facts vs. the Truth-O-Meter PolitiFact

So how is picking crops with an H-2A visa taking jobs from Americans when Americans have no desire to pick crops for a living?   Visa over stayers need to go also as once their visas expire they are here illegally also.

How do you know that these minority workers at some Home Care Center are here illegally and just what is a Home Care Center anyway?  Home means home, doesn't it?   Anyone in the health care business would have to pass strict background checks so it is likely they are not illegal aliens.     As for the race or ethnic makeup of healthcare providers  I see just as many whites in that business as minorities.    It's not an illegal immigration issue.


----------



## charwin95

Oldglory1 said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OG, I'm telling you the reality. H2A is only seasonal that is right. Do you expect these people to go home after the harvest season? You've got to be kidding me. Do you really expect a farmer from other countries to just leave their farm and work here? No they send their kids for other opportunities.
> I never said I favor illegals to do crop picking. I hate illegals just like you are. All I'm telling you is H2 visa is no better than illegals from the south. In my opinion it's worst.
> I still want to know how you come up with all these 3 percenter.
> The truth is these H2 people will take American jobs that's the reality. Remember these are not really farmers but are educated people not just a wetback. Even tourists that comes here they violated their visa and settled here. Even at home care center for old people you do not see american workers but mostly illegal asian or hispanic.
> I don't drink koolaids
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janitorial work use to be done by many poor blacks and whites but illegal aliens have taken over those jobs also.
> 
> Why shouldn't these people go home after the harvest season?  Isn't that the way the Bracero program worked.?   If the H-2A visas need fine tuning then so be it but that still doesn't excuse the farmers for breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens.   If you think they aren't doing so just to increase their profits then you aren't dealing in reality.
> 
> Here are the stats on the percentages of illegals picking crops.   There are actually less than 3%.
> 
> Illegal Alien Facts vs. the Truth-O-Meter PolitiFact
> 
> So how is picking crops with an H-2A visa taking jobs from Americans when Americans have no desire to pick crops for a living?   Visa over stayers need to go also as once their visas expire they are here illegally also.
> 
> How do you know that these minority workers at some Home Care Center are here illegally and just what is a Home Care Center anyway?  Home means home, doesn't it?   Anyone in the health care business would have to pass strict background checks so it is likely they are not illegal aliens.     As for the race or ethnic makeup of healthcare providers  I see just as many whites in that business as minorities.    It's not an illegal immigration issue.
Click to expand...


----------



## charwin95

charwin95 said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OG, I'm telling you the reality. H2A is only seasonal that is right. Do you expect these people to go home after the harvest season? You've got to be kidding me. Do you really expect a farmer from other countries to just leave their farm and work here? No they send their kids for other opportunities.
> I never said I favor illegals to do crop picking. I hate illegals just like you are. All I'm telling you is H2 visa is no better than illegals from the south. In my opinion it's worst.
> I still want to know how you come up with all these 3 percenter.
> The truth is these H2 people will take American jobs that's the reality. Remember these are not really farmers but are educated people not just a wetback. Even tourists that comes here they violated their visa and settled here. Even at home care center for old people you do not see american workers but mostly illegal asian or hispanic.
> I don't drink koolaids
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janitorial work use to be done by many poor blacks and whites but illegal aliens have taken over those jobs also.
> 
> Why shouldn't these people go home after the harvest season?  Isn't that the way the Bracero program worked.?   If the H-2A visas need fine tuning then so be it but that still doesn't excuse the farmers for breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens.   If you think they aren't doing so just to increase their profits then you aren't dealing in reality.
> 
> Here are the stats on the percentages of illegals picking crops.   There are actually less than 3%.
> 
> Illegal Alien Facts vs. the Truth-O-Meter PolitiFact
> 
> So how is picking crops with an H-2A visa taking jobs from Americans when Americans have no desire to pick crops for a living?   Visa over stayers need to go also as once their visas expire they are here illegally also.
> 
> How do you know that these minority workers at some Home Care Center are here illegally and just what is a Home Care Center anyway?  Home means home, doesn't it?   Anyone in the health care business would have to pass strict background checks so it is likely they are not illegal aliens.     As for the race or ethnic makeup of healthcare providers  I see just as many whites in that business as minorities.    It's not an illegal immigration issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Why H2A visas don't return home after season harvest? Why return to same hard way of living. This is the only option they have to hide then seek better and other opportunities. The are now called illegals. As I mentioned previously these are not real seasonal or farmers. These are educated (nurses, engineers, X-ray tech. accountant etc. carpenters, auto mechanic, plumbers) people. 
Companies do all sorts of back ground checks but there are small companies that deal with cash that do any kind of b- check. Like gas stations, motels, cashiers, construction workers, plumbing etc. This is where they take American jobs. 
How I know because I know. This is the reality. 
Home care center is similar to convalescent. These are houses converted to handle old patients with good or minimal health problems. I became aware of this home care since 1998. This is s very lucrative business all over US and very surprised that you haven't heard it. Their workers are illegal aliens these is where H2a illegal nurses from Philippines end up. How I know? Because I know. Forgive the resource. 
You see whites, asian or other races working in health care like hospitals, clinics, urgent care. You are right these are not illegal aliens most are US citizens or immigrant. 
I own business but I do not have H1 employee nor illegal aliens working for me.


----------



## Oldglory1

charwin95 said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OG, I'm telling you the reality. H2A is only seasonal that is right. Do you expect these people to go home after the harvest season? You've got to be kidding me. Do you really expect a farmer from other countries to just leave their farm and work here? No they send their kids for other opportunities.
> I never said I favor illegals to do crop picking. I hate illegals just like you are. All I'm telling you is H2 visa is no better than illegals from the south. In my opinion it's worst.
> I still want to know how you come up with all these 3 percenter.
> The truth is these H2 people will take American jobs that's the reality. Remember these are not really farmers but are educated people not just a wetback. Even tourists that comes here they violated their visa and settled here. Even at home care center for old people you do not see american workers but mostly illegal asian or hispanic.
> I don't drink koolaids
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Janitorial work use to be done by many poor blacks and whites but illegal aliens have taken over those jobs also.
> 
> Why shouldn't these people go home after the harvest season?  Isn't that the way the Bracero program worked.?   If the H-2A visas need fine tuning then so be it but that still doesn't excuse the farmers for breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens.   If you think they aren't doing so just to increase their profits then you aren't dealing in reality.
> 
> Here are the stats on the percentages of illegals picking crops.   There are actually less than 3%.
> 
> Illegal Alien Facts vs. the Truth-O-Meter PolitiFact
> 
> So how is picking crops with an H-2A visa taking jobs from Americans when Americans have no desire to pick crops for a living?   Visa over stayers need to go also as once their visas expire they are here illegally also.
> 
> How do you know that these minority workers at some Home Care Center are here illegally and just what is a Home Care Center anyway?  Home means home, doesn't it?   Anyone in the health care business would have to pass strict background checks so it is likely they are not illegal aliens.     As for the race or ethnic makeup of healthcare providers  I see just as many whites in that business as minorities.    It's not an illegal immigration issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why H2A visas don't return home after season harvest? Why return to same hard way of living. This is the only option they have to hide then seek better and other opportunities. The are now called illegals. As I mentioned previously these are not real seasonal or farmers. These are educated (nurses, engineers, X-ray tech. accountant etc. carpenters, auto mechanic, plumbers) people.
> Companies do all sorts of back ground checks but there are small companies that deal with cash that do any kind of b- check. Like gas stations, motels, cashiers, construction workers, plumbing etc. This is where they take American jobs.
> How I know because I know. This is the reality.
> Home care center is similar to convalescent. These are houses converted to handle old patients with good or minimal health problems. I became aware of this home care since 1998. This is s very lucrative business all over US and very surprised that you haven't heard it. Their workers are illegal aliens these is where H2a illegal nurses from Philippines end up. How I know? Because I know. Forgive the resource.
> You see whites, asian or other races working in health care like hospitals, clinics, urgent care. You are right these are not illegal aliens most are US citizens or immigrant.
> I own business but I do not have H1 employee nor illegal aliens working for me.
Click to expand...


Here they are called Assisted Living Places.   Never heard of the term Home Care Centers.    In order for a home to qualify to care for the elderly they also much undergo a certain critieria and so does their staff.    My mother in-law was in one and there weren't just minorities working there either.  You have no proof that they hire illegal aliens.    I talked to various members of their staff and they all spoke perfect English.


----------



## charwin95

Maybe I'm talking to myself. Yes they speak English. As I said repeatedly these are educated people. How do you know they are not illegals? 
How do I know what Ive said about illegals. I can proved to my satisfaction but I can't proved to you via link. I know people that has these kinds of business.


----------



## Oldglory1

charwin95 said:


> Maybe I'm talking to myself. Yes they speak English. As I said repeatedly these are educated people. How do you know they are not illegals?
> How do I know what Ive said about illegals. I can proved to my satisfaction but I can't proved to you via link. I know people that has these kinds of business.



If those places are employing illegals then they are doing so because they work cheap not because they can't find Americans to do those jobs at a fair wage and that is the bottom line here.


----------



## charwin95

Oldglory1 said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm talking to myself. Yes they speak English. As I said repeatedly these are educated people. How do you know they are not illegals?
> How do I know what Ive said about illegals. I can proved to my satisfaction but I can't proved to you via link. I know people that has these kinds of business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If those places are employing illegals then they are doing so because they work cheap not because they can't find Americans to do those jobs at a fair wage and that is the bottom line here.
Click to expand...


Agree. God bless America.


----------



## Obiwan

Actually, since the Liberals want to turn us into another Mexico, I think we should appease them and adopt Mexico's immigration policy.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=461











*MEXICAN IMMIGRATION POLICIES*
This section of DiscoverTheNetworks examines the immigration policies of Mexico. Though that nation's government has long criticized U.S. efforts to curtail the heavy northward flow of Mexican illegals, Mexico itself takes a hard line against those who would violate _its_ immigration laws.

As Professor Michael Waller of the Institute of World Politics points out,Mexico deports more illegal aliens than the United States does. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien residing anywhere in the country. Mexican immigration authorities keep detailed records of all foreign visitors. These visitors are explicitly banned from interfering in the nation's internal politics. Those who enter the country under false pretenses (e.g., with fake papers) are summarily incarcerated or deported, and those who aid in illegal immigration are also sent to prison.

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society. According to the nation's central immigration law:


Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress."
Immigration officials must "ensure" that immigrants will not only be useful additions to Mexico, but that they have the necessary funds to sustain themselves and their dependents.
Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics"; if they are deemed to be detrimental to "economic or national interests"; if they have broken Mexican laws; and if they are not found to be “physically or mentally healthy."
The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners” if he determines such action to be in the national interest."


----------



## Abishai100

*Capitalism Coaster*


There are arguably two relics of modern-age consumerism that future archaeologists will mark as totem symbols of 'capitalism culture' or free market 'couture.'

1. the compact audio cassette (the first portable audio media storage-playback toy)

2. the authentic Chinese soup bowl-and-ladlespoon set (found in many Chinatown restaurants)

These two items, if 'advertised' well, can reveal our consumerism lifestyle appreciation of mercantilism-gauged etiquette.

If we market capitalism through the lens of professionalism and histrionics, then people will feel less 'motivated' to come to America as illegal immigrants.  In other words, the proverbial American Dream will look more like a labor trophy and less like a lottery fantasy.






Chinatown

Samsung Electronics


----------



## Unkotare

This is your brain on drugs ... ^^^


----------



## PhilipBrown

Ok.  It is clear that no one here is interested in supporting a bill if it allow illegal immigrants to have legal residents.  Let me try "sweeting the pot."  How about if the bill would give legal residency for a LIMITED TIME ONLY.  Let's change the amnesty section of the bill to:

================[ AMNESTY SECTION OF BILL ]================

We will give the illegal immigrants who register “legal resident status” and "work visas" FOR ONLY 10 YEARS, but not citizenship.  THE LEGAL RESIDENT STATUS AND WORK VISAS WILL ONLY BE IN AFFECT FOR 10 YEARS, AND AFTERWARDS, EVERYONE WHO REGISTERED WILL LOSE THEIR RESIDENT STATUS.  NO ONE UNDER THIS PROGRAM CAN APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP.  The registration period will last for only one year after the constitutional amendment becomes law.  After that, no one else can register.​
=======================[ END OF BILL ]======================

So, we will get a lot of powerful pro-enforcement laws on the books.  The illegal immigrants will only be allowed to stay 10 years and then they will lose their legal status.  We will have their names, addresses, and fingerprints which will make them easier to find and deport.  We will end up deporting a lot more people under this program than we would without it.  We would only have to suffer for 10 years.  If this could be done, would anyone support this new version of the bill?

Philip Brown


----------



## Alystyr

One thing that I didn't see mentioned is somehow curtailing the sending of money back to the home country. If this outflow could be slowed, or even stopped, that would eliminate one of the big draws attracting foreign workers. It would also help local businesses, since the money flowing out of the U.S. isn't helping anyone except the destination countries.
Where I live, it seems that I'm right between Little Mexico and Little Somalia. On the first of the month (other paydays aren't _quite_ as bad), it's getting so a person doesn't want to go anywhere near a business that offers Western Union. Nearly everyone in line (and the lines are *long*) appears to be foreign-born, and most of them each have a stack of cash that they're sending out of the U.S. The most recent one I witnessed was about $700, but the average seems to be around $300-$500.
Some time ago, I did some research - it's actually *cheaper* on average to send money to another country than it is to a neighboring state, and it appears that it's still the case. Checking just now, it costs $6.99-$8.00 to send $100 to Mexico, $8-$11 to India, and $9.99 to Somalia, yet it costs $10-$12 to send it anywhere in the U.S. I'd imagine that it's because there are so many more out-of-country transactions happening than in-country that WU doesn't need to charge as much per transaction in order to make their profits.
Barring a complete ban on sending money out of the U.S., it needs to be made either much more difficult (currently, it's one form and about 5 minutes) or *much* more expensive. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.


----------



## Oldglory1

PhilipBrown said:


> Ok.  It is clear that no one here is interested in supporting a bill if it allow illegal immigrants to have legal residents.  Let me try "sweeting the pot."  How about if the bill would give legal residency for a LIMITED TIME ONLY.  Let's change the amnesty section of the bill to:
> 
> ================[ AMNESTY SECTION OF BILL ]================
> 
> We will give the illegal immigrants who register “legal resident status” and "work visas" FOR ONLY 10 YEARS, but not citizenship.  THE LEGAL RESIDENT STATUS AND WORK VISAS WILL ONLY BE IN AFFECT FOR 10 YEARS, AND AFTERWARDS, EVERYONE WHO REGISTERED WILL LOSE THEIR RESIDENT STATUS.  NO ONE UNDER THIS PROGRAM CAN APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP.  The registration period will last for only one year after the constitutional amendment becomes law.  After that, no one else can register.​
> =======================[ END OF BILL ]======================
> 
> So, we will get a lot of powerful pro-enforcement laws on the books.  The illegal immigrants will only be allowed to stay 10 years and then they will lose their legal status.  We will have their names, addresses, and fingerprints which will make them easier to find and deport.  We will end up deporting a lot more people under this program than we would without it.  We would only have to suffer for 10 years.  If this could be done, would anyone support this new version of the bill?
> 
> Philip Brown



Absolutely not!  That just means Americans who lost their jobs to illegal aliens will be unemployed for another 10 years.  It means another 10 years of overcrowded schools, jails and hospitals.   10 more years of added demands on our social and natural resources.   10 more years of the anchor baby fiasco.


----------



## imawhosure

Oldglory1 said:


> PhilipBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok.  It is clear that no one here is interested in supporting a bill if it allow illegal immigrants to have legal residents.  Let me try "sweeting the pot."  How about if the bill would give legal residency for a LIMITED TIME ONLY.  Let's change the amnesty section of the bill to:
> 
> ================[ AMNESTY SECTION OF BILL ]================
> 
> We will give the illegal immigrants who register “legal resident status” and "work visas" FOR ONLY 10 YEARS, but not citizenship.  THE LEGAL RESIDENT STATUS AND WORK VISAS WILL ONLY BE IN AFFECT FOR 10 YEARS, AND AFTERWARDS, EVERYONE WHO REGISTERED WILL LOSE THEIR RESIDENT STATUS.  NO ONE UNDER THIS PROGRAM CAN APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP.  The registration period will last for only one year after the constitutional amendment becomes law.  After that, no one else can register.​
> =======================[ END OF BILL ]======================
> 
> So, we will get a lot of powerful pro-enforcement laws on the books.  The illegal immigrants will only be allowed to stay 10 years and then they will lose their legal status.  We will have their names, addresses, and fingerprints which will make them easier to find and deport.  We will end up deporting a lot more people under this program than we would without it.  We would only have to suffer for 10 years.  If this could be done, would anyone support this new version of the bill?
> 
> Philip Brown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely not!  That just means Americans who lost their jobs to illegal aliens will be unemployed for another 10 years.  It means another 10 years of overcrowded schools, jails and hospitals.   10 more years of added demands on our social and natural resources.   10 more years of the anchor baby fiasco.
Click to expand...



And I agree with Old Glory.  When are we going to remember what Ross Perot said, "we are the owners of the country."  Not the politicians, not the illegals, not Mexico, Germany, Russia, or anywhere else.  It is "We the People!"  And it is "We the People" who are citizens that it belongs to.

If you are a republican or a democrat and are against this nonsense, then the number 1 priority for you is to vote for a candidate in the primary who is against giving any kind of amnesty whatsoever.

Look at it this way........lets pretend Obama is right about his economic course (which he is not, but that is a topic for another discussion) and next year we have a bang out year creating job and make 5 million!

Well, if you are out of a job today, sounds good doesn't it!  But what if they close their eyes and let 6 million more illegals over the border?  Guess what!  After the policy allowed 5 million MORE jobs to be created, it will be harder for you to get a job next year than it was this year; and monies going to social services will have to rise because we just added 1 million more people who are NOT working.

As an American, I do not care if you are a democrat, a republican, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, gay, straight, or transgender.  If you are an American, it is YOUR job 1st!  But to insure your taxes do not rise so you can INVEST in our economy, WE need to keep pressure off the budget; and since YOU deserve the jobs, if we allow 5 million in, they will need help; help out of YOUR pocket. 

It is really your choice.  You can't bitch about evil corporations who won't give a decent wage, while you let illegals in who take jobs for less because they are illegal.  You can't worry about them 1st, you need to worry about yourselves, and your fellow Americans.

After you do these things, you want to revisit the debate, fine!  But right now, you have to worry about your extended American family, period.


----------



## Unkotare

Oldglory1 said:


> 10 more years of the anchor baby fiasco.




You are talking about people who are every bit as much US citizens as you.


----------



## imawhosure

Unkotare said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 more years of the anchor baby fiasco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking about people who are every bit as much US citizens as you.
Click to expand...


Yes, but not the people that can come here because of them.  We are going to fix that pretty quick, watch and see!


----------



## Unkotare

imawhosure said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 more years of the anchor baby fiasco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking about people who are every bit as much US citizens as you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, but not the people that can come here because of them.  We are going to fix that pretty quick, watch and see!
Click to expand...



When exactly?


----------



## charwin95

Unkotare said:


> imawhosure said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 10 more years of the anchor baby fiasco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking about people who are every bit as much US citizens as you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, but not the people that can come here because of them.  We are going to fix that pretty quick, watch and see!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> When exactly?
Click to expand...

I just talked to him. He said Nov. 2016 with a tolerance of + 125 years. That's pretty quick for me.


----------



## imawhosure

Go ahead and make light of the situation.  So did Yamamoto, and what you are going to find out is..........you have awakened the American populace, and things are going to change.

That doesn't mean if you are illegal you get a free airplane ride back to where you came from.  What it does mean is that you might.


----------



## Unkotare

imawhosure said:


> Go ahead and make light of the situation.  So did Yamamoto, and what you are going to find out is..........you have awakened the American populace, and things are going to change.




That hysterical little post was inapplicable, inaccurate, irrational and illogical.


----------



## Gen0

Without immigration... no one would have good jobs to pay for their big houses,their ten meals a day, and dont forget those lemon drop drinks on fridays!

1.Heres the bottom line. Sooner will be so interconnected that it will destroy most of the cultures and languages. 
2.Citizen of the world would be inevitable 
3.We will all learn to understand one another or destroy each other - if not both some huge rock from space will do it or we will gas our selves caused by global warming.


----------



## Gen0

imawhosure said:


> Go ahead and make light of the situation.  So did Yamamoto, and what you are going to find out is..........you have awakened the American populace, and things are going to change.
> 
> That doesn't mean if you are illegal you get a free airplane ride back to where you came from.  What it does mean is that you might.


 DO you realize how many immigrants USA businesses take advantage of? These poor people who can barely squeeze out a word in the fear of being deported, so they pay and settle on anything offered to them. they are simply glad to be in america where there are laws to protect them and health care given if needed.


----------



## skye

There is no politically correct   way of  preventing illegal immigration

well


there is I guess


build a wall


but you see.....cokroaches get through ... it's so difficult to keep them out

poor US of A.....


----------



## Gen0

skye said:


> There is no politically correct   way of  preventing illegal immigration
> 
> well
> 
> 
> there is I guess
> 
> 
> build a wall
> 
> 
> but you see.....cokroaches get through ... it's so difficult to keep them out
> 
> poor US of A.....


 
i agree.... they get through because those cockroaches were heading back home.


----------



## skye

fumigate the scum


----------



## OnePercenter

Alystyr said:


> One thing that I didn't see mentioned is somehow curtailing the sending of money back to the home country. If this outflow could be slowed, or even stopped, that would eliminate one of the big draws attracting foreign workers. It would also help local businesses, since the money flowing out of the U.S. isn't helping anyone except the destination countries.
> Where I live, it seems that I'm right between Little Mexico and Little Somalia. On the first of the month (other paydays aren't _quite_ as bad), it's getting so a person doesn't want to go anywhere near a business that offers Western Union. Nearly everyone in line (and the lines are *long*) appears to be foreign-born, and most of them each have a stack of cash that they're sending out of the U.S. The most recent one I witnessed was about $700, but the average seems to be around $300-$500.
> Some time ago, I did some research - it's actually *cheaper* on average to send money to another country than it is to a neighboring state, and it appears that it's still the case. Checking just now, it costs $6.99-$8.00 to send $100 to Mexico, $8-$11 to India, and $9.99 to Somalia, yet it costs $10-$12 to send it anywhere in the U.S. I'd imagine that it's because there are so many more out-of-country transactions happening than in-country that WU doesn't need to charge as much per transaction in order to make their profits.
> Barring a complete ban on sending money out of the U.S., it needs to be made either much more difficult (currently, it's one form and about 5 minutes) or *much* more expensive. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.


Arrest, fine, and incarcerate yours good Republican employers that employ illegal aliens.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk


----------



## Alystyr

OnePercenter said:


> Arrest, fine, and incarcerate yours good Republican employers that employ illegal aliens.


I don't think that it's limited to only Republican employers. It's more a case of it being any employer that values maximizing the bottom line in general, and dividends to stockholders in particular, over anything else. Behavior like that transcends party lines - any way that they can decrease an expenditure (in this case labor costs) and get away with it, they're going to do it.
Also, if it's not _illegals_ they're hiring, they're abusing the visa process if they're an international company.

Putting that aside, I wholeheartedly agree that drastic measures need to be taken against anyone that employs illegals.
I'd even go so far to say that, if there was a way to somehow bypass the 14th Amendment (which, because of case law, grants most of a citizen's rights to illegals), then housing and other services that enable illegals to stay here comfortably should be denied as well.


----------



## Unkotare

Gen0 said:


> Sooner will be so interconnected that it will destroy most of the cultures and languages....




When?


----------



## Oldglory1

OnePercenter said:


> Alystyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing that I didn't see mentioned is somehow curtailing the sending of money back to the home country. If this outflow could be slowed, or even stopped, that would eliminate one of the big draws attracting foreign workers. It would also help local businesses, since the money flowing out of the U.S. isn't helping anyone except the destination countries.
> Where I live, it seems that I'm right between Little Mexico and Little Somalia. On the first of the month (other paydays aren't _quite_ as bad), it's getting so a person doesn't want to go anywhere near a business that offers Western Union. Nearly everyone in line (and the lines are *long*) appears to be foreign-born, and most of them each have a stack of cash that they're sending out of the U.S. The most recent one I witnessed was about $700, but the average seems to be around $300-$500.
> Some time ago, I did some research - it's actually *cheaper* on average to send money to another country than it is to a neighboring state, and it appears that it's still the case. Checking just now, it costs $6.99-$8.00 to send $100 to Mexico, $8-$11 to India, and $9.99 to Somalia, yet it costs $10-$12 to send it anywhere in the U.S. I'd imagine that it's because there are so many more out-of-country transactions happening than in-country that WU doesn't need to charge as much per transaction in order to make their profits.
> Barring a complete ban on sending money out of the U.S., it needs to be made either much more difficult (currently, it's one form and about 5 minutes) or *much* more expensive. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Arrest, fine, and incarcerate yours good Republican employers that employ illegal aliens.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


What about the Democrats that hire them?   Don't be naive


----------



## imawhosure

Gen0 said:


> imawhosure said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead and make light of the situation.  So did Yamamoto, and what you are going to find out is..........you have awakened the American populace, and things are going to change.
> 
> That doesn't mean if you are illegal you get a free airplane ride back to where you came from.  What it does mean is that you might.
> 
> 
> 
> DO you realize how many immigrants USA businesses take advantage of? These poor people who can barely squeeze out a word in the fear of being deported, so they pay and settle on anything offered to them. they are simply glad to be in america where there are laws to protect them and health care given if needed.
Click to expand...


1. How many immigrants we let in is stated by law.  What you are talking about is ILLEGALS, period.

2. Nobody is stopping you from helping them.  Go HELP them, just don't make the rest of us do it if we do not want to.

3. I am extremely happy you forsee utopia.  Didn't you lefties try to make that in California?  Exactly how is that working out for you!


----------



## prison/con.net

why waste the money on prisons? just horsewhip those who are convicted of hiring illegals, on pubic TV.  why gas about what's politically correct?   Not a wall, takes too long. Need a double fence, of stretched coils of razor wire,  3 coils, 2 atop them, 1 atop the 2.  With rifle towers every  1/4 mile. walls mean nothing without riflemen backing them up.  We could buiild such a fence in a month, if we really wanted to do so. Plenty of guys would sign up to man the rifle towers (can't fire at anyone not caught between the fences)


----------



## OnePercenter

Alystyr said:


> I don't think that it's limited to only Republican employers. It's more a case of it being any employer that values maximizing the bottom line in general, and dividends to stockholders in particular, over anything else. Behavior like that transcends party lines - any way that they can decrease an expenditure (in this case labor costs) and get away with it, they're going to do it.
> Also, if it's not _illegals_ they're hiring, they're abusing the visa process if they're an international company.
> 
> Putting that aside, I wholeheartedly agree that drastic measures need to be taken against anyone that employs illegals.
> I'd even go so far to say that, if there was a way to somehow bypass the 14th Amendment (which, because of case law, grants most of a citizen's rights to illegals), then housing and other services that enable illegals to stay here comfortably should be denied as well.



I've never met or known any Democrat employers that are big enough ass-holes to do such a thing.


----------



## Oldglory1

OnePercenter said:


> Alystyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that it's limited to only Republican employers. It's more a case of it being any employer that values maximizing the bottom line in general, and dividends to stockholders in particular, over anything else. Behavior like that transcends party lines - any way that they can decrease an expenditure (in this case labor costs) and get away with it, they're going to do it.
> Also, if it's not _illegals_ they're hiring, they're abusing the visa process if they're an international company.
> 
> Putting that aside, I wholeheartedly agree that drastic measures need to be taken against anyone that employs illegals.
> I'd even go so far to say that, if there was a way to somehow bypass the 14th Amendment (which, because of case law, grants most of a citizen's rights to illegals), then housing and other services that enable illegals to stay here comfortably should be denied as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never met or known any Democrat employers that are big enough ass-holes to do such a thing.
Click to expand...


LOL!   How about Nancy Pelosi who hired them to work in her vineyards?    How about all those Mexican restaurants are you stupid enough to think they don't hire illegal aliens?   Hispanics are mostly Democrats and these restaurant owners certainly do hire them.   That's just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## OnePercenter

Oldglory1 said:


> LOL!   How about Nancy Pelosi who hired them to work in her vineyards?    How about all those Mexican restaurants are you stupid enough to think they don't hire illegal aliens?   Hispanics are mostly Democrats and these restaurant owners certainly do hire them.   That's just the tip of the iceberg.



So you're going with the Nancy Pelosi smear started by Deadbeat, er Deadbart? 

Which Mexican Restaurants? How do you know that the owners are Democrats? Aren't there 'Hispanics' running on the GOP ticket?


----------



## Oldglory1

OnePercenter said:


> Oldglory1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!   How about Nancy Pelosi who hired them to work in her vineyards?    How about all those Mexican restaurants are you stupid enough to think they don't hire illegal aliens?   Hispanics are mostly Democrats and these restaurant owners certainly do hire them.   That's just the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're going with the Nancy Pelosi smear started by Deadbeat, er Deadbart?
> 
> Which Mexican Restaurants? How do you know that the owners are Democrats? Aren't there 'Hispanics' running on the GOP ticket?
Click to expand...


How do YOU know that at least some of these Mexican restaurant owners aren't Democrats and don't hire illegal aliens?    Come on, get real here.   The point is that if you think it is only Republican business owners that hire illegal aliens you are being a bi-partisan hack and not dealing in reality.   WTH does any Hispanics running on the GOP ticket have to do with any of this?


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Could mine the border. Seems to work keeping North Koreans on their side of the line.


----------



## Abishai100

*Tijuana Factory*

We need to talk about the bordertown Tijuana (Mexico), since it sees a great deal of traffic with illegal immigrants, tourists, street merchants, narcotics-smugglers, commissioned police patrols, and California college students.

When one area is not managed well, we find it easier to normalize or neglect overall national administrative attention towards mass immigration (be it legal or illegal).

Where did the romance go with immigration?  Once upon a time, people talked romantically about cross-country drives across the USA or about G.I.s stopping in Las Vegas during vacations or about Italians and Irish starting up grocery stores in Philadelphia and Chicago.  Now, economy-frustration created by mismanaged immigration seems to be all the focused talk surrounding populist traffic in America.

What if Nike opened up a shoe-making factory in Tijuana which welcomed tourists and guided tours for tourists and photographers and which hired immigrants and natives alike seeking respectable and reliable minimum-wage employment?

There must be a way to coordinate capitalism with immigration propaganda.




Traffic (Film)


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## imawhosure

The solution is simple..........if we keep discussing the issue and the facts come to the forefront, they are mostly toast.  Use the internet to  prove that statistically they are a drag on the economy, and watch how fast Americans change sides; from 71% for closing the border, to 99%!

We have enough trouble with the libs trying to drag us into the sewer, why would we let anybody help them?  Maybe that is the generational question.  Saving yourself is easy, compared to saving your whole family!

If politicians try to convince you otherwise, make them walk the plank!!!!!!!!


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## Abishai100

*Specter Socialism*

It's all about marketing.  Globalization since the days of Teddy Roosevelt has been wed to advertising and campaigning.  How we present the American Dream affects the world's view on the 'ethics' of profiteerism as it is related to immigration.

Imagine you turn on the television in Mexico City and see a political ad by the Obama administration that reads, "There was a ghost walking the streets of Chinatown, San Francisco, and the only part of this specter you actually saw was a pair of Velcro sneakers."

In other words, folk stories such as that of the Headless Horseman (Legend of Sleepy Hollow) create an aura of pedestrianism friendship.





Headless Horseman


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## PhilipBrown

Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:

1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.

2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.

Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.

After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.


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## Unkotare

PhilipBrown said:


> Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:
> 
> 1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.
> 
> 2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.
> 
> Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.
> 
> After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.




Wow, where is the "dumb" button?


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## pismoe

PhilipBrown said:


> Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:
> 
> 1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.
> 
> 2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.
> 
> Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.
> 
> After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.


------------------------------  not ok with me , we need to deport the enemy with a vengeance .   Why give work to mexicans that can be done for profit that will benefit American labor and construction companies ??    Plus  why give mexicans a chance to sabotage the wall that you suggest that they build Phillip Brown ??


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## charwin95

Unkotare said:


> PhilipBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:
> 
> 1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.
> 
> 2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.
> 
> Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.
> 
> After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, where is the "dumb" button?
Click to expand...


Dumb buffoon is you dude.


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## Unkotare

charwin95 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PhilipBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:
> 
> 1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.
> 
> 2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.
> 
> Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.
> 
> After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, where is the "dumb" button?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dumb buffoon is you dude.
Click to expand...




Why do you say that?


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## Unkotare

Do people really still say "dude"?


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## charwin95

Unkotare said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PhilipBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:
> 
> 1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.
> 
> 2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.
> 
> Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.
> 
> After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, where is the "dumb" button?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dumb buffoon is you dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
Click to expand...


Because you a silly monkey.


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## Unkotare

charwin95 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PhilipBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:
> 
> 1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.
> 
> 2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.
> 
> Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.
> 
> After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, where is the "dumb" button?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dumb buffoon is you dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you a silly monkey.
Click to expand...




Seems you've given up on ever having any self-respect.


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## charwin95

Unkotare said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PhilipBrown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are my thoughts on how Pres. Donald Trump can discourage illegal immigration and reduce the cost of building the wall at the same time.  He can ask congress to pass two laws:
> 
> 1) Illegal immigration is a criminal offense that gives up to six months in jail.
> 
> 2) Every day that an illegal immigrant works to help build the border fence will represent four days of his prison sentence.
> 
> Illegal immigrants who want to be free sooner will help to build the wall.  Immigrants who do not help build the border fence will face 180 days in prison, but those that do help build the fence will server 45 days in prison.
> 
> After the fence is build, I would have this “chain gang” build a “wall” using the local natural resources (materials).  Villages in Mexico build walls for their houses using the local material on the land such as rocks and clay.  Illegal immigrants who agree to help build the wall can use the materials that they find to construct it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, where is the "dumb" button?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dumb buffoon is you dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you a silly monkey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems you've given up on ever having any self-respect.
Click to expand...


And you do you even respect yourself glorified kinder GARMENT school teacher? 
You insulted and disrespected me first. Start with that moron.


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## Unkotare

charwin95 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, where is the "dumb" button?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb buffoon is you dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you a silly monkey.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems you've given up on ever having any self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you do you even respect yourself ....
Click to expand...



Yes, thank you for asking.


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## PhilipBrown

pismoe said:


> not ok with me , we need to deport the enemy with a vengeance .   Why give work to mexicans that can be done for profit that will benefit American labor and construction companies ??    Plus  why give mexicans a chance to sabotage the wall that you suggest that they build Phillip Brown ??



Thanks for your comments Pismoe.  The problem with just deporting illegal immigrants is that there is no reason for them to not just sneak back into the United States.  Making illegal immigration a criminal offense will discourage other people from entering and getting a criminal record.

An American construction company would be contracted to build the fence and would have American inspectors to verify that they were being constructed correctly. If any prisoner appears to be sabotaging the project, the inspectors have the authority to return him back to the regular prison without reducing in his prison sentence.

There would be American technicians from the company to install any high tech equipment. All of them would be United States citizens.

The prisoners will not be able to "run" across the border. Some of them will be enclosed in the "tent city" making bricks for the wall. Everyone outside of the city will be wearing a ball-in-chains or tethered to a post in the ground.

After spending 30 days in the hot sun, from early morning to night time, I do not believe we will see a lot of returning illegal immigrants. Most of them would not want to go through that experience again. And even if they do, they will have a wall and two fences to deal with. Each time we catch them in the United States illegally, their prison sentence will double the previous sentence. One year, two years, four years, more??? Yes, I know, I am wicked.


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## Unkotare

Again we get infantile emoting instead of serious discussion...


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## charwin95

PhilipBrown said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> not ok with me , we need to deport the enemy with a vengeance .   Why give work to mexicans that can be done for profit that will benefit American labor and construction companies ??    Plus  why give mexicans a chance to sabotage the wall that you suggest that they build Phillip Brown ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your comments Pismoe.  The problem with just deporting illegal immigrants is that there is no reason for them to not just sneak back into the United States.  Making illegal immigration a criminal offense will discourage other people from entering and getting a criminal record.
> 
> An American construction company would be contracted to build the fence and would have American inspectors to verify that they were being constructed correctly. If any prisoner appears to be sabotaging the project, the inspectors have the authority to return him back to the regular prison without reducing in his prison sentence.
> 
> There would be American technicians from the company to install any high tech equipment. All of them would be United States citizens.
> 
> The prisoners will not be able to "run" across the border. Some of them will be enclosed in the "tent city" making bricks for the wall. Everyone outside of the city will be wearing a ball-in-chains or tethered to a post in the ground.
> 
> After spending 30 days in the hot sun, from early morning to night time, I do not believe we will see a lot of returning illegal immigrants. Most of them would not want to go through that experience again. And even if they do, they will have a wall and two fences to deal with. Each time we catch them in the United States illegally, their prison sentence will double the previous sentence. One year, two years, four years, more??? Yes, I know, I am wicked.
Click to expand...


Aside from over crowding. Average cost of incarceration is $31k a year. Some states range from $49k to 60k/year.


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