# Official 2010 Baseball Thread



## Andrew2382

Ok ladies, the best time of year is almost upon us.  Get your gloves and bats and be safe out there!

Predictions:

AL East:
Yankees 100-62
Red Sox 95-67
Rays 88-74
Blue Jays 77-84
Orioles 70-92

AL Central:
Twins 84-79
Tigers 83-80
White Sox 75-87
Indians 68-94
Royals 65-97

AL West:
Mariners 88-74
Angels 87-75
Rangers 83-79
Athletics 77-85

Wild Card: Red Sox

National League

NL East:
Phillies 92-70
Marlins 86-76
Mets 85-77
Braves 83-79
Nationals 60-102

NL Central:
Cardinals 97-65
Reds 90-72
Cubs 82-80
Brewers 79-83
Astros 76-86
Pirates 69-93

NL West
Dodgers 94-68
Diamondbacks 91-71
Giants 88-74
Rockies 81-81
Padres 72-90

Wild Card: D-backs

ALDS: Yankees over Twins in 3
ALDS: Sox over Mariners in 4

NLDS: Phillies over Dodgers in 4
NLDS: Cardinals over D-backs in 4

ALCS: Yankees over Sox in 7

NLCS: Phillies over Cards in 6

World Series:
Yankees over Phillies in 6



I have a feeling about the Mariners taking the west this year...I am sure come july/august I will look back at this and say "WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING WITH SOME OF THESE PICKS"


Edit:  my NL west was all fucked up...


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## Oddball

If the Twins can play on grass at home, stay healthy in general and pitching in particular, and prove that they weren't merely beneficiaries of Domeball, they may well win 100 games.

Otherwise, they'll struggle to make .500 season out of it.


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## Article 15

Dude said:


> If the Twins can play on grass at home, stay healthy in general and pitching in particular, and prove that they weren't merely beneficiaries of Domeball, they may well win 100 games.
> 
> Otherwise, they'll struggle to make .500 season out of it.



Y'all need Baker and Slowey to step it up big time to reach that goal.

Is Liriano still all sixes and sevens?


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## Oddball

Slowey was on track to win 20 before he got hurt.  Baker is good enough to pull it off. Blackburn proved he's a very capable #3. Liriano better learn that he can't just blow people away anymore, or he'll go the way of Scott Erickson.

Mauer and Crede stay healthy, the defense stays as steady as usual, and the offense figures out what to do with runners on base and it could be a great year.


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## Article 15

Dude said:


> Slowey was on track to win 20 before he got hurt.  Baker is good enough to pull it off. Blackburn proved he's a very capable #3. Liriano better learn that he can't just blow people away anymore, or he'll go the way of Scott Erickson.
> 
> Mauer and Crede stay healthy, the defense stays as steady as usual, and the offense figures out what to do with runners on base and it could be a great year.



Wins are an awful stat to judge a pitcher by.  I know Slowey doesn't walk anybody but he's going to have to do better than a 1.4 WHIP and an ERA a kiss below 5 like he posted last before he is a legit #2 in this league.

Y'all will win a lot of games because of the division you are in but with that rotation I doubt there is a deep playoff run in the Twins' future.

Interested in Beckett + prospects for Morneau?  We got a bunch of noodle bats in my stable.


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## Andrew2382

I agree on Slowey, but I have a feeling he is going to have a good year this year...somewhere in the 3.7-4.10 era range.

The MnM brothers tho are such a sick combo tho...god i wish I had Mauer


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## Modbert

(For now): Just who I think is going to win everything.

AL East:
Red Sox

AL Central:
Tigers

AL West:
Angels

Wild Card: 
Yankees

NL East: 
Philly

NL Central:
Cardinals

NL West:
Dodgers

Wild Card: Marlins

Red Sox over Angels in a rematch.
Yankees over Tigers.

Red Sox over the Yankees.

Then on the NL Side:

Dodgers over Philly
Marlins over the Cards.

Dodgers over the Marlins.

WS: Red Sox vs Dodgers, Red Sox win in 6.


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## Andrew2382

man..you let the red sox get 2 rings and all of a sudden they are contenders every year!!! 



I miss the old red sox fan where failure was endured and expected!

lol

like I am with the Jets and Knicks and Rangers


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## Oddball

Andrew2382 said:


> I agree on Slowey, but I have a feeling he is going to have a good year this year...somewhere in the 3.7-4.10 era range.
> 
> The MnM brothers tho are such a sick combo tho...god i wish I had Mauer


He was already having a good year last year.

Run support and great defense will do that for a guy.


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## Article 15

Dogbert said:


> (For now): Just who I think is going to win everything.
> 
> AL East:
> Red Sox
> 
> AL Central:
> Tigers
> 
> AL West:
> Angels
> 
> Wild Card:
> Yankees
> 
> NL East:
> Philly
> 
> NL Central:
> Cardinals
> 
> NL West:
> Dodgers
> 
> Wild Card: Marlins
> 
> Red Sox over Angels in a rematch.
> Yankees over Tigers.
> 
> Red Sox over the Yankees.
> 
> Then on the NL Side:
> 
> Dodgers over Philly
> Marlins over the Cards.
> 
> Dodgers over the Marlins.
> 
> WS: Red Sox vs Dodgers, Red Sox win in 6.



I think the Angels are going to plummet this season ... expect Seattle to take the West.  

And I know that we are Red Sox fans, Dogbert, but unless the Sox get the bat we all want and need in July or the Yankees get crushed with the injury bug I don't see how we take the division this season.

In the playoffs all bets are off because of our superior rotation.


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## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> *I think the Angels are going to plummet this season ... expect Seattle to take the West.  *
> 
> And I know that we are Red Sox fans, Dogbert, but unless the Sox get the bat we all want and need in July or the Yankees get crushed with the injury bug I don't see how we take the division this season.
> 
> In the playoffs all bets are off because of our superior rotation.



I say that every year, and the Angels keep on winning. 

I think it will be close if they lose, but I doubt they will lose the AL West barring some injuries.

And with the Red Sox, it's all about whether our pitchers and hitters stay healthy for the most part. If our guys don't get the injury bug, I think we take it.

And you are correct on the playoffs.


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## Xenophon

Too early for predictions from me, haven't even had spring training yet.


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## Oddball

I predict the Tigers will fade in the stretch again...It's what they've rehearsed.


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## Xenophon

I supose I can make a preliminary guess at it:

AL East:
Yankees
AL Central:
Twins
AL West:
Angels
AL Wildcard:
Boston

NL East:
Phillies
NL Central:
Cardinls
NL West:
Giants
NL Wild card:
Colorado

Depending on injuries in the spring, this could change.

I don't like Seattle, every few years they do a make over and rarely does it work out, and the Angels still have 5 good starters

The twins are better then detroit, which got worse losing Granderson

The Yankees are still the class of baseball, adding a true CF and a real 4th Starter just makes them better

Boston has all that pitching, plus some sweet hitters, defense in Beantown could be suspect behind the plate and in the OF.

Phillies have Haladay, Nuff said.

Cards have two top starters and Pujols, more then enough to beat the Cubs.

I like the Giant's pitching to knock off LA this year.

Colorado can just flat out hit.


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## Andrew2382

mariners have the best 1-2 combo in the league for pitching...they are going to be competitive


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## Xenophon

They can compete all year, still won't get them in the post season.


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## Andrew2382

Angels ain't winning shit this year not with a rotation of:

Jered Weaver, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders and Scott Kazmir...not particulary in that order per say but there isn't one solid # 1 starter...it's filled with mediocre #2 starters and #3's


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## Xenophon

So they will lose to the other team's #1 and win the next 4 each time...


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## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> Angels ain't winning shit this year not with a rotation of:
> 
> Jered Weaver, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders and Scott Kazmir...not particulary in that order per say but there isn't one solid # 1 starter...it's filled with mediocre #2 starters and #3's



I'd take Kazmir.


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## Xenophon

I'd take any one of them, they are solid starters.


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## Paulie

I'd take Cliff Lee.


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## JWBooth

Astros are gonna....gonna....


awwww shit, never mind.


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## Andrew2382

Paulie said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Angels ain't winning shit this year not with a rotation of:
> 
> Jered Weaver, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders and Scott Kazmir...not particulary in that order per say but there isn't one solid # 1 starter...it's filled with mediocre #2 starters and #3's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take Kazmir.
Click to expand...



You'd take Kazmir as a #1?

I wouldn't...maybe in 4 more years when he is in his rime not righ tnow

Angels lost a lot more thus far then they have gained


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## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Angels ain't winning shit this year not with a rotation of:
> 
> Jered Weaver, Ervin Santana, Joe Saunders and Scott Kazmir...not particulary in that order per say but there isn't one solid # 1 starter...it's filled with mediocre #2 starters and #3's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take Kazmir.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You'd take Kazmir as a #1?
> 
> I wouldn't...maybe in 4 more years when he is in his rime not righ tnow
> 
> Angels lost a lot more thus far then they have gained
Click to expand...

Nah not as a #1, I'd just take him.

We had about 3 or 4 #1's last year tho as the season went along 

No question _this_ year, though.  I'm not 100% sold on our rotation at this point, and I have no idea who's going to be #5.  At this point, probably Moyer or Kendrick.  I'm over Moyer, and Kendrick doesn't have anything but a sinker.

So yeah, I'd take Kazmir.


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## Xenophon

Joba wants to be the #5 starter this year.

After last year's debacle he should just stay in the pen.


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## Andrew2382

Xenophon said:


> Joba wants to be the #5 starter this year.
> 
> After last year's debacle he should just stay in the pen.



where did you hear that...I read in the papers the other day he would be willing to set up for Mo and take over the reigns once MO retires


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## Xenophon

Andrew2382 said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joba wants to be the #5 starter this year.
> 
> After last year's debacle he should just stay in the pen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> where did you hear that...I read in the papers the other day he would be willing to set up for Mo and take over the reigns once MO retires
Click to expand...

From his mouth.

SNY played the clip at least 10 timnes yesterday.


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## Paulie

Very soon baby, very soon!


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## Article 15

Joba needs to understand that he will have much more success in the bullpen than as a starter.

And Kazmir?  Two or three years ago I he had one of the brightest futures of any young pitcher but
The kid has regressed and lost 4-6 mph off his fastball.

I'm very "meh" on Kazmir.


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## Andrew2382

now that Football is over onto the real important things in life....Spring training is rapidly approaching


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## Terry

Yankee's!!!!!!!!!!


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## Xenophon

Pitchers & Catchers...just 2 days away!!!


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## Paulie

Yeah I don't usually have anything too specific to care about on pitchers and catchers, but this year I do.

Btw, Cliff Lee had minor surgery and will probably miss a little bit of time...

But Roy Halladay is healthy and ready to pitch!


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## Xenophon

The long wait is almost ova...


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## Xenophon

Damon to Detroit for 8 mil...

About the same as Granderson would have gotten...

Source: Johnny Damon, Detroit Tigers agree to $8M contract - ESPN


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## Paulie

Halladay in mid-season form yesterday.

So far so good.


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## Xenophon

Almost there, under a month now.


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## Oddball

Joe Nathan blew out his elbow.

Joe Nathan of Minnesota Twins has torn elbow ligament - ESPN


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## Xenophon

Saw that before, he's done.


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## Bezukhov

Life will be good soon. Sitting by the lake with a fishing pole, a ballgame on the radio, and beers in the cooler...


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## Article 15

Dude said:


> Joe Nathan blew out his elbow.
> 
> Joe Nathan of Minnesota Twins has torn elbow ligament - ESPN



Ouch


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## elvis

anyone know the latest on Joe Mauer?  where he will sign?


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## Article 15

Mauer is going to be lifelong Twin, IMO


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## elvis

Article 15 said:


> Mauer is going to be lifelong Twin, IMO



yeah that seemed to be the consensus a couple weeks ago


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## Paulie

From what I understand, he's actually willing to take a significant cut in salary as opposed to what he can get on the open market, to stay in Minn.

He's the kind of player you don't see much of anymore.


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## Xenophon

We will see about that.

With Nathan gone, the Twins won't be a playoff team for years.

That has a way of changing a player's mind.


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## Paulie

It's a big loss but for a small market team, the Twins manage to surprise a lot.

Just when you think they're doomed for the basement, they make the playoffs instead.


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## Xenophon

I think they are in trouble now.


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## CrusaderFrank

Andrew2382 said:


> Ok ladies, the best time of year is almost upon us.  Get your gloves and bats and be safe out there!
> 
> Predictions:
> 
> AL East:
> Yankees 100-62
> Red Sox 95-67
> Rays 88-74
> Blue Jays 77-84
> Orioles 70-92
> 
> AL Central:
> Twins 84-79
> Tigers 83-80
> White Sox 75-87
> Indians 68-94
> Royals 65-97
> 
> AL West:
> Mariners 88-74
> Angels 87-75
> Rangers 83-79
> Athletics 77-85
> 
> Wild Card: Red Sox
> 
> National League
> 
> NL East:
> Phillies 92-70
> Marlins 86-76
> Mets 85-77
> Braves 83-79
> Nationals 60-102
> 
> NL Central:
> Cardinals 97-65
> Reds 90-72
> Cubs 82-80
> Brewers 79-83
> Astros 76-86
> Pirates 69-93
> 
> NL West
> Dodgers 94-68
> Diamondbacks 91-71
> Giants 88-74
> Rockies 81-81
> Padres 72-90
> 
> Wild Card: D-backs
> 
> ALDS: Yankees over Twins in 3
> ALDS: Sox over Mariners in 4
> 
> NLDS: Phillies over Dodgers in 4
> NLDS: Cardinals over D-backs in 4
> 
> ALCS: Yankees over Sox in 7
> 
> NLCS: Phillies over Cards in 6
> 
> World Series:
> Yankees over Phillies in 6
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling about the Mariners taking the west this year...I am sure come july/august I will look back at this and say "WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING WITH SOME OF THESE PICKS"
> 
> 
> Edit:  my NL west was all fucked up...



Yanks in 6.  Hello #28!!


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## Nonelitist

Let me just state that I am a KC Royals fan... but that they will suck yet once again and be an embarassment to the KC area.

Thank you for listening.


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## Paulie

Yeah, Greinke's pretty much just going to waste out there in KC.

What a shame.


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## Xenophon

Looks like Reyes will start the season on the DL.

2010 Mets starting to look a lot like the 2009 Mets.


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## Paulie

Xenophon said:


> Looks like Reyes will start the season on the DL.
> 
> 2010 Mets starting to look a lot like the 2009 Mets.


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## manifold

I have my doubts about the Sox this year.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters is how they match up against the Yankees.  First of all, they're in the same division, and second, if you match up well against the Yankees it's a solid bet you can hang with everyone else.

That said, the Sox do not match up well against the Yankees going into this season.  Perhaps slightly better pitching, but a much weaker line-up.

I hope I'm wrong, but I envision a tough road just to win the wildcard.




Go Pats!  Let's get some depth on defense with all those draft picks already!


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## JW Frogen

I have not been to a baseball game in 25 years.

My mother used to listen to the Angels on the radio; she died the year before they won the World Series.

My Dad loved the Giants. Both NY and San Fran. 

I played in Little League and High School. Truth be told I sucked. Though I could steal bases, I led our High School league at that. Broke a record. 

My coach used to tell me to just get beened so I could get on base because I could not hit the side of a barn with a cow in heat. But I could steal a base. 

Even third.

My last coach advised I go to track. But I stayed in baseball. Because my family loved baseball.

What I will never forget about baseball is my family in the bleachers, proud of me, happy; we were all playing baseball, playing together. 

In my memory, baseball is eternity.


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## JakeStarkey

Remember that summer is for baseball first romance second.  

My beloved became a baseball fan on our first date; we went to a Dodgers game.  

Love me, love da game.


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## Paulie

Being a fan of baseball is a requirement to win my heart.  It's total deal-breaker status.

If the girlfriend ever tried telling me she isn't actually a baseball fan I'd be packed and moved out before she could finish the sentence.  

Not before a couple blackened eyes though, of course


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## ProudTwoofer

Hope the Phils make it 2 out of 3 but their pitching sucks overall.


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## Paulie

ProudTwoofer said:


> Hope the Phils make it 2 out of 3 but their pitching sucks overall.



Have you followed their spring so far?

The starters are pitching around a 2 ERA so far, and we have the best starting pitcher in baseball.


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## manifold

Paulie said:


> ProudTwoofer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope the Phils make it 2 out of 3 but their pitching sucks overall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you followed their spring so far?
> 
> The starters are pitching around a 2 ERA so far, and we have the best starting pitcher in baseball.
Click to expand...


I expect them to run away with the triple A league.


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## Xenophon

Heard again today the twins are talking to NY about Mauer, the word is they want Montero, NY's top catching prospect and Hughes & Jaba.

Don't count on Joe being a twin for life.


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## tigerbob

Andrew2382 said:


> Ok ladies, the best time of year is almost upon us.  Get your gloves and bats and be safe out there!
> 
> Predictions:
> 
> AL East:
> Yankees 100-62
> Red Sox 95-67
> Rays 88-74
> Blue Jays 77-84
> Orioles 70-92
> 
> AL Central:
> Twins 84-79
> Tigers 83-80
> White Sox 75-87
> Indians 68-94
> Royals 65-97
> 
> AL West:
> Mariners 88-74
> Angels 87-75
> Rangers 83-79
> Athletics 77-85
> 
> Wild Card: Red Sox
> 
> National League
> 
> NL East:
> Phillies 92-70
> Marlins 86-76
> Mets 85-77
> Braves 83-79
> Nationals 60-102
> 
> NL Central:
> Cardinals 97-65
> Reds 90-72
> Cubs 82-80
> Brewers 79-83
> Astros 76-86
> Pirates 69-93
> 
> NL West
> Dodgers 94-68
> Diamondbacks 91-71
> Giants 88-74
> Rockies 81-81
> Padres 72-90
> 
> Wild Card: D-backs
> 
> ALDS: Yankees over Twins in 3
> ALDS: Sox over Mariners in 4
> 
> NLDS: Phillies over Dodgers in 4
> NLDS: Cardinals over D-backs in 4
> 
> ALCS: Yankees over Sox in 7
> 
> NLCS: Phillies over Cards in 6
> 
> World Series:
> Yankees over Phillies in 6
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling about the Mariners taking the west this year...I am sure come july/august I will look back at this and say "WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING WITH SOME OF THESE PICKS"
> 
> 
> Edit:  my NL west was all fucked up...



WTF???  Twinkies beating out the Tigers by a single game....again????

That would be too cruel.....


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## Article 15

Beckett is supposedly going to sign a four year $70 million extension soon and it looks like Mike Lowell will be traded to the Rangers (again).


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## elvis

Article 15 said:


> Beckett is supposedly going to sign a four year $70 million extension soon and it looks like Mike Lowell will be traded to the Rangers (again).



hope he keeps the blisters off his fingers, then.


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## Xenophon

Article 15 said:


> Beckett is supposedly going to sign a four year $70 million extension soon and it looks like Mike Lowell will be traded to the Rangers (again).


That is a lot of cash for a guy so inconsistant.


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## Oddball

April in Minneapolis and the Twins are on the teevee...All is right with the world.

First big league hit in the new park (albeit in a pre-season game) was a triple, hit by the Twins' lead off hitter in the bottom of the 1st.

Looks like a vast upgrade in the menu, over the schwaggy dome grub, too!

Target Field touches all bases with food and beverages


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## Paulie

Dude said:


> April in Minneapolis and the Twins are on the teevee...All is right with the world.
> 
> First big league hit in the new park (albeit in a pre-season game) was a triple, hit by the Twins' lead off hitter in the bottom of the 1st.
> 
> Looks like a vast upgrade in the menu, over the schwaggy dome grub, too!
> 
> Target Field touches all bases with food and beverages



The question is, will you guys still achieve the same level of success without the various different advantages you had with the dome...


----------



## Oddball

Don't know.

The Mainers and Astros had some of the same advantages and transitioned pretty well.


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## JWBooth

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU3a1PDtTYk"]YouTube - Field of Dreams - People Will Come[/ame]​


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## JakeStarkey

Dude said:


> Don't know.
> 
> The Mainers and Astros had some of the same advantages and transitioned pretty well.



The strohs did not have the great snow storms to contend with; however, a hurricance gave Zambrano a chance to no hit them at the end of a pennat race in a series that knocked the Houston boys out of contention.

Weather is fickle and affects the outcome of an entire season.


----------



## tigerbob

Dude said:


> Don't know.
> 
> The Mainers and Astros had some of the same advantages and transitioned pretty well.



I don't know a team in the AL that will rue the demise of the Metrodome.


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## manifold

I'm a little surprised that the Sox are starting Beckett instead of Lester opening day.  I fully expect Lester to be their number 1 ace this year.  I guess Tito doesn't want to bruise Beckett's ego, what with the contract talks and everything.


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## elvis

I have a feeling Johnny Damon is going to have a big year in Detroit.


----------



## Xenophon

Really?

I bet johhny goe son teh DL often and early.


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## tigerbob

elvis said:


> I have a feeling Johnny Damon is going to have a big year in Detroit.





Xenophon said:


> I bet johhny goe son teh DL often and early.



And the answer is.......Johnny will have a big year.


----------



## Paulie

tigerbob said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know.
> 
> The Mainers and Astros had some of the same advantages and transitioned pretty well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know a team in the AL that will rue the demise of the Metrodome.
Click to expand...


Except the Twins.


----------



## manifold

tigerbob said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling Johnny Damon is going to have a big year in Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet johhny goe son teh DL often and early.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the answer is.......Johnny will have a big year.
Click to expand...


The over/under on how many runners he throws out at the plate is 0.5, and i'm taking the under.


----------



## Article 15

manifold said:


> I'm a little surprised that the Sox are starting Beckett instead of Lester opening day.  I fully expect Lester to be their number 1 ace this year.  I guess Tito doesn't want to bruise Beckett's ego, what with the contract talks and everything.



Tito is loyal to a fault and Beckett is the leader of that staff.


----------



## Article 15

Xenophon said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beckett is supposedly going to sign a four year $70 million extension soon and it looks like Mike Lowell will be traded to the Rangers (again).
> 
> 
> 
> That is a lot of cash for a guy so inconsistant.
Click to expand...


It's basically the same deal the Yanks gave AJ Burnett.


----------



## manifold

Article 15 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a little surprised that the Sox are starting Beckett instead of Lester opening day.  I fully expect Lester to be their number 1 ace this year.  I guess Tito doesn't want to bruise Beckett's ego, what with the contract talks and everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tito is loyal to a fault and Beckett is the leader of that staff.
Click to expand...


Didn't he give Lester the ball in game 1 of the ALDS last year?


----------



## Article 15

manifold said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a little surprised that the Sox are starting Beckett instead of Lester opening day.  I fully expect Lester to be their number 1 ace this year.  I guess Tito doesn't want to bruise Beckett's ego, what with the contract talks and everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tito is loyal to a fault and Beckett is the leader of that staff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didn't he give Lester the ball in game 1 of the ALDS last year?
Click to expand...


He did ... Beckett was also still straightening himself out after a terrible August and Lester had been dealing for weeks at the time.


----------



## Xenophon

Article 15 said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beckett is supposedly going to sign a four year $70 million extension soon and it looks like Mike Lowell will be traded to the Rangers (again).
> 
> 
> 
> That is a lot of cash for a guy so inconsistant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's basically the same deal the Yanks gave AJ Burnett.
Click to expand...

AJ isn't the #1 on NY though.


----------



## Article 15

Xenophon said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is a lot of cash for a guy so inconsistant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's basically the same deal the Yanks gave AJ Burnett.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AJ isn't the #1 on NY though.
Click to expand...


True but I think Beckett is better than Burnett and I think we both agree that Lester is the real "ace" of the Red Sox staff and that CC is better than all of them.

This is how I see the top 5 Red Sox/Yankee pitchers:

1. CC
2. Lester
3. Beckett
4. Lackey
5. Burnett


----------



## Oddball




----------



## tigerbob

manifold said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elvis said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling Johnny Damon is going to have a big year in Detroit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet johhny goe son teh DL often and early.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the answer is.......Johnny will have a big year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The over/under on how many runners he throws out at the plate is 0.5, and i'm taking the under.
Click to expand...


That's a fair point.  Actually, I'd still take the under if he was playing shortstop.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tito is loyal to a fault and Beckett is the leader of that staff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't he give Lester the ball in game 1 of the ALDS last year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He did ... Beckett was also still straightening himself out after a terrible August and Lester had been dealing for weeks at the time.
Click to expand...


Yeah, who gets the ball in game 1 of a playoff series has way more to do with technicals like that, than who gets the ball on opening day.  Opening day tends to be more political, and there's a hell of a lot more margin for error.  Losing game 1 of the season doesn't mean shit compared to losing game 1 of the playoffs.  I think Charlie started Brett Myers 2 seasons in a row on opening day, when Hamels was clearly better.


----------



## Xenophon

Article 15 said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's basically the same deal the Yanks gave AJ Burnett.
> 
> 
> 
> AJ isn't the #1 on NY though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True but I think Beckett is better than Burnett and I think we both agree that Lester is the real "ace" of the Red Sox staff and that CC is better than all of them.
> 
> This is how I see the top 5 Red Sox/Yankee pitchers:
> 
> 1. CC
> 2. Lester
> 3. Beckett
> 4. Lackey
> 5. Burnett
Click to expand...

I don't believe AJ is even really NY's #2, although he rotation wise.

Petit is the better big game pitcher.

The difference between NY and Boston's staff is really not there, I give it mulligan on whether either staff is better, Boston has some real questions marks at 4 and 5 (aging knucklballer & injured walk machine) whereas NY has a top guy at #4 and a virtually untried kid at #5.

Bullpens are basically the same also, so it comes down to hitting and defense, so NY gets the edge in both, the bottom of Boston's BO could be a disaster with the oft injured Drew, a light hitting 3B Beltre, Cameron and his strikeouts and good ol Marco Scutaro.

Let's look postion by postion:

1B Tex Vs Youk
*Edge NY*: Better power hitter, switch hitter and gold glover vs better hitter for average and good defense

2B Cano Vs Pedroia
*Edge Even*: Both can field, both can flat out hit, Pedroia the better clutch hitter, cano the better power hitter

SS Jeets Vs Marco
*Edge NY*: Hall of famer beats out journeyman, not close

3B Arod Vs Beltre
*Edge NY*: Another no brainer, light hitting beltre may be a better fileder then Arod, but not by much, hitting its no contest

Catcher Posada Vs Martinez
*Edge NY*: Jorge better defensively, is aging but still has good power and hits for average. Martinez is no glove man, liability behind plate

CF Granderson Vs Cameron
*Edge NY*: 20 year old switch hitter with power vs aging veteran strikout king.

LF Gardner vs Ellsbury
*Edge Boston*: No brainer, unproven speedster vs veteran .300 hitter speedster

RF Swisher vs Drew
*Edge even*: If Drew ever stood healthy he would win easily, but that is the ticket, isn't it

DH Johnson vs big Papi
*Edge Boston*: Even though aging and lower BA, Big Papi still had the long ball and RBIs, oft injured Nick not a power hitter, but will get on base


----------



## Paulie

Opening day _tomorrow_, boys!

I'll be working but I'll DVR it and watch it as soon as I get home.  It'll be tempting to want to listen to it on the radio, but fuck that shit.  That would be a waste of my favorite day of the year.


----------



## Xenophon

Paulie said:


> Opening day _tomorrow_, boys!
> 
> I'll be working but I'll DVR it and watch it as soon as I get home.  It'll be tempting to want to listen to it on the radio, but fuck that shit.  That would be a waste of my favorite day of the year.


Wrongo Paulie, its about 25 minutes away.

NY vs Boston, be there or be square.


----------



## Paulie

Xenophon said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Opening day _tomorrow_, boys!
> 
> I'll be working but I'll DVR it and watch it as soon as I get home.  It'll be tempting to want to listen to it on the radio, but fuck that shit.  That would be a waste of my favorite day of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrongo Paulie, its about 25 minutes away.
> 
> NY vs Boston, be there or be square.
Click to expand...


I meant _my_ opening day, but I will of course be watching tonight.


----------



## Article 15

*Dustin mutha fuckin' Pedroia!!!

That's my boy!!!*


----------



## xotoxi

Article 15 said:


> *Dustin mutha fuckin' Pedroia!!!*
> 
> *That's my boy!!!*


 
Excellent.

However, all of the fears that the Sox wouldn't have any offensive firepower are coming true...only 7 runs in 7 innings.

That is an average of only ONE run per inning.


----------



## Article 15

*Hooray!!!*


----------



## Article 15

Red Sox 162-0
Yankees 0-162

Book it.

Done.


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> Red Sox 162-0
> Yankees 0-162
> 
> Book it.
> 
> Done.



Magic Number: 161 games.


----------



## sealybobo

Article 15 said:


> *Hooray!!!*



I hope the Yankees lost.  I'm a Tiger but enjoy watching both the Redsox & Yankees when they are on tv because both are good teams.  The difference is that I'm always rooting against the Yankees and for the Redsox.  Unless they are playing the Tigers of course.  But I will always root for Curtis Granderson.  

Did the Yankees lose?  I hope so.  The announcers on ESPN all just said they pick the Yankees to repeat this year.  Why would they say that if Boston won?  GULP.  I changed the channel and forgot to go back.  Please tell me the Yankees lost!  I'm checking sportscenter but they are taking forever!!!  Damn you American Pickers for being interesting!


----------



## Article 15

sealybobo said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hooray!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the Yankees lost.  I'm a Tiger but enjoy watching both the Redsox & Yankees when they are on tv because both are good teams.  The difference is that I'm always rooting against the Yankees and for the Redsox.  Unless they are playing the Tigers of course.  But I will always root for Curtis Granderson.
> 
> Did the Yankees lose?  I hope so.  The announcers on ESPN all just said they pick the Yankees to repeat this year.  Why would they say that if Boston won?  GULP.  I changed the channel and forgot to go back.  Please tell me the Yankees lost!  I'm checking sportscenter but they are taking forever!!!  Damn you American Pickers for being interesting!
Click to expand...


Settle down, Beavis, the Yankees lost.


----------



## Xenophon

NY losses 9-7 as poor bullpen work blew leads all night.

Just like last year, when NY lost its first 8 to boston, NY lead in the 6th and the bullpen blew it.

AJ is next, on tuesday.


----------



## Article 15

Gotta say I don't agree with Tito running out Ortiz against CC.  We have Lowell to DH when facing tough lefties.


----------



## manifold

So that's what winning with pitching and defense looks like huh?

Sweeeeeet!


----------



## tigerbob

And so it begins.........

Go TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## JWBooth

Cards @ Cincy...and Carpenter just gave up 2 homers.  Good thing I dont like either team.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> Gotta say I don't agree with Tito running out Ortiz against CC.  We have Lowell to DH when facing tough lefties.



May have been a move to help build confidence.  Ortiz' ego is hurting a little from last year, I'm sure.  It's the reason why Charlie started Myers on those couple Opening days when Hamels was our ace.


----------



## tigerbob

Greinke goes 6 against Tigers, gives up 2 runs, gets yanked, Tigers maul Royals bullpen.

Hehe-heh-heh.


----------



## Oddball

Hate the Twins' new road uniforms.


----------



## Paulie

The fucking web gem of the year already!

I highly doubt anything will beat this all season:

[youtube]gDIEp-xyOl0[/youtube]


----------



## Oddball

Totally killer play.

Prolly won't be a better this season.


----------



## Paulie

That's a trophy play for an _infielder_, let alone a friggin _pitcher_.


----------



## Article 15

Paulie said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta say I don't agree with Tito running out Ortiz against CC.  We have Lowell to DH when facing tough lefties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May have been a move to help build confidence.  Ortiz' ego is hurting a little from last year, I'm sure.  It's the reason why Charlie started Myers on those couple Opening days when Hamels was our ace.
Click to expand...


Yeah, that was the conclusion we came up with at the office otherwise there was no reason for it.


----------



## Oddball

Paulie said:


> That's a trophy play for an _infielder_, let alone a friggin _pitcher_.


Jim Katt used to make plays like that look easy.


----------



## tigerbob

Paulie said:


> The fucking web gem of the year already!
> 
> I highly doubt anything will beat this all season:
> 
> [youtube]gDIEp-xyOl0[/youtube]



Holy shit, that's outrageous!!!!


----------



## trams

WOW just WOW


----------



## manifold

bummer, video has been deleted.


----------



## xotoxi

manifold said:


> bummer, video has been deleted.


 
Here you go...

Buehrle's wizardry reaches another level | whitesox.com: News

INABSOMOTHERFUCKINLOOTLYCREDIBLE!


----------



## Paulie

There's no diving or homer robbing catch that beats that play.  The only thing in recent memory that was in that kind of league was Jeter's play in the '01 ALCS.


----------



## Xenophon

NY bounces back on 4 shutout innings of bullpen work to take game 2 of the boston series.

Nice to see this after the terrible first game for the pen.


----------



## Article 15

Gonna have to settle for 161-1.


----------



## Xenophon

Article 15 said:


> Gonna have to settle for 161-1.


Nonsense, I'm sure NY will lose more then one, but thanks for rooting for us!


----------



## Article 15

Dammit


----------



## Xenophon

Yankees take the series from Boston on fine work from pettit, park and Mo, 3-1 in 10 innings.

New yankee Curtiss Granderson tatooed a pabelbon pitch deep to right in the tenth to give NY the win.


----------



## Article 15

Xenophon said:


> Yankees take the series from Boston on fine work from pettit, park and Mo, 3-1 in 10 innings.
> 
> New yankee Curtiss Granderson tatooed a pabelbon pitch deep to right in the tenth to give NY the win.



Could John Sterling's pet call for Granderson's dingers be more lame?  I thought the "Text message" and "Swishlicious" was a new low ... boy was I wrong.

The Yankees have all the money and the world can't they hire a decent radio broadcast team?

Man, that guy and his shrill partner are terrible.


----------



## tigerbob

I feel kinda sick.  Did the Tigers learn nothing from Game 163?  Jeez I'm pissed off.


----------



## Xenophon

Article 15 said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yankees take the series from Boston on fine work from pettit, park and Mo, 3-1 in 10 innings.
> 
> New yankee Curtiss Granderson tatooed a pabelbon pitch deep to right in the tenth to give NY the win.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could John Sterling's pet call for Granderson's dingers be more lame?  I thought the "Text message" and "Swishlicious" was a new low ... boy was I wrong.
> 
> The Yankees have all the money and the world can't they hire a decent radio broadcast team?
> 
> Man, that guy and his shrill partner are terrible.
Click to expand...

He doesn't do TV so i don't have to hear him.


----------



## Paulie

Hamels is still looking shaky out there.

He's afraid of the new pitches he worked on in the spring.  

At least he had a smile on his face in the dugout after finishing up for the night.

He's gotta be willing to come at batters with something other than FB/CU.  The league kind of has him figured out at this point, and he's not making good adjustments.

Otherwise, our offense is SICK.


----------



## Oddball

_*OOPS!*_






Another year, another jersey FAIL


----------



## Paulie

Just another indication that people are getting progressively dumber in America.


----------



## tigerbob

Early MVP and triple crown candidate - Miguel Cabrera.

8 for 14, 2 HR and 7 RBI against the Royals.

Of course, that's against the Royals...    


Home Opener tomorrow with the family!!!!!


----------



## Andrew2382

well been gone for a bit...but it's nice to see Baseball is in full effect!  

Nothing made me happier then to see that redneck inbred fuck papsmear get lit up and get embarassed in front of his hometown. 

So far so good with Granderson, but honestly I shouldn't be having chest pains for the opening series of the season...can we get the royals next year please?


----------



## Article 15

Andrew2382 said:


> So far so good with Granderson,



Have _you_ heard Sterling's god awful gimmick call for Granderson homers yet?  



> but honestly I shouldn't be having chest pains for the opening series of the season...can we get the royals next year please?



Agreed.  This starting the season against the Skanks is for the birds, man.  Like Blue Jays or Orioles or some shit.


----------



## critter

ortiz is going to be fine.. people need to lay off him ... without him we would of never scored last night


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far so good with Granderson,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have _you_ heard Sterling's god awful gimmick call for Granderson homers yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but honestly I shouldn't be having chest pains for the opening series of the season...can we get the royals next year please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed.  This starting the season against the Skanks is for the birds, man.  Like Blue Jays or Orioles or some shit.
Click to expand...


Yeah we got the Nats, but it seems like we get them every year.  We open and close against them.

MLB of course needs to do what's best for MLB, so NY/Boston it is.


----------



## Xenophon

Paulie said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far so good with Granderson,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have _you_ heard Sterling's god awful gimmick call for Granderson homers yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but honestly I shouldn't be having chest pains for the opening series of the season...can we get the royals next year please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed.  This starting the season against the Skanks is for the birds, man.  Like Blue Jays or Orioles or some shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah we got the Nats, but it seems like we get them every year.  We open and close against them.
> 
> MLB of course needs to do what's best for MLB, so NY/Boston it is.
Click to expand...

That isn't best for baseball, the rivalry is dying from over exposure.

For years, the reds, the oldest team had the first game, a good tradition baseball burned.

I thought it sucked starting vs Boston, no drama, no buildup, nothing.

Years ago you didn't play the red sox until June, THAT was great, you couldn't wait for the BIG games.

Now its 18 times a year, ho hum.


----------



## Paulie

Xenophon said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have _you_ heard Sterling's god awful gimmick call for Granderson homers yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  This starting the season against the Skanks is for the birds, man.  Like Blue Jays or Orioles or some shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah we got the Nats, but it seems like we get them every year.  We open and close against them.
> 
> MLB of course needs to do what's best for MLB, so NY/Boston it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isn't best for baseball, the rivalry is dying from over exposure.
> 
> For years, the reds, the oldest team had the first game, a good tradition baseball burned.
> 
> I thought it sucked starting vs Boston, no drama, no buildup, nothing.
> 
> Years ago you didn't play the red sox until June, THAT was great, you couldn't wait for the BIG games.
> 
> Now its 18 times a year, ho hum.
Click to expand...


I don't know dude, NESN had its highest opening day ratings EVER.

I don't know about YES though, but you have to expect it was pretty close to the same.

When I say what's best for MLB, I don't mean what's best for baseball fans.  I mean what's best for ratings, and MONEY.


----------



## Andrew2382

Article 15 said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far so good with Granderson,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have _you_ heard Sterling's god awful gimmick call for Granderson homers yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but honestly I shouldn't be having chest pains for the opening series of the season...can we get the royals next year please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Agreed.  This starting the season against the Skanks is for the birds, man.  Like Blue Jays or Orioles or some shit.
Click to expand...


"Oooooh, Curtis, you're something sort of grandish"


yeah its pretty awful

but sterling and waldmen being awful is nothing that should surprise us


----------



## Andrew2382

I agree with Xeno, this starting the series against Boston is pretty awful.

I enjoy the buildup to play our most heated rival we have.  MLB is doing everything in their power to destroy the rivalry in my opinion


----------



## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> I agree with Xeno, this starting the series against Boston is pretty awful.
> 
> I enjoy the buildup to play our most heated rival we have.  MLB is doing everything in their power to destroy the rivalry in my opinion



Again though, the ratings set a record.

And that's all that matters to MLB.

The fans tuned in...they showed up to the park and filled it to capacity...they bought food, beer, merch, they paid for parking, etc.

That's what it's all about at the end of the day.  You can hate it all you want (and trust me, I agree with you), but you're still going to fill that stadium up every time those teams meet.  And the TV ratings are still going to be high, too.


----------



## Andrew2382

I know it's all about the ratings...and they are capitalizing on it...just sucks balls. But then again, it was nice to see papelbon get smacked around


----------



## Paulie

I don't really think it takes that much away from the rivalry.

You'll all be forgetting about it in a month when the division is heating up and you're both jockeying for the top.

It's still more likely than not, to come down to the wire at the end of the season.


----------



## Andrew2382

I think the main point here is the Mets suck balls


----------



## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> I think the main point here is the Mets suck balls



They also happen to lick _ass_, too.


----------



## Xenophon

Paulie said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah we got the Nats, but it seems like we get them every year.  We open and close against them.
> 
> MLB of course needs to do what's best for MLB, so NY/Boston it is.
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't best for baseball, the rivalry is dying from over exposure.
> 
> For years, the reds, the oldest team had the first game, a good tradition baseball burned.
> 
> I thought it sucked starting vs Boston, no drama, no buildup, nothing.
> 
> Years ago you didn't play the red sox until June, THAT was great, you couldn't wait for the BIG games.
> 
> Now its 18 times a year, ho hum.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know dude, NESN had its highest opening day ratings EVER.
> 
> I don't know about YES though, but you have to expect it was pretty close to the same.
> 
> When I say what's best for MLB, I don't mean what's best for baseball fans.  I mean what's best for ratings, and MONEY.
Click to expand...


They would make more the older way.


----------



## Paulie

Xenophon said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't best for baseball, the rivalry is dying from over exposure.
> 
> For years, the reds, the oldest team had the first game, a good tradition baseball burned.
> 
> I thought it sucked starting vs Boston, no drama, no buildup, nothing.
> 
> Years ago you didn't play the red sox until June, THAT was great, you couldn't wait for the BIG games.
> 
> Now its 18 times a year, ho hum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know dude, NESN had its highest opening day ratings EVER.
> 
> I don't know about YES though, but you have to expect it was pretty close to the same.
> 
> When I say what's best for MLB, I don't mean what's best for baseball fans.  I mean what's best for ratings, and MONEY.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They would make more the older way.
Click to expand...

Then how come the new way brought the highest ratings?

No matter what, the sox-yanks games are going to be sellouts.  Regardless of how MLB handles scheduling, the sheep are going to come out and open their wallets.


----------



## tigerbob

Andrew2382 said:


> well been gone for a bit...but it's nice to see Baseball is in full effect!
> 
> Nothing made me happier then to see that redneck inbred fuck papsmear get lit up and get embarassed in front of his hometown.
> 
> So far so good with Granderson, but honestly I shouldn't be having chest pains for the opening series of the season...can we get the royals next year please?



I wish Curtis lots of luck, even though he's moved to the dark side.  Hope he learns to hit southpaws regularly - he was close to an auto out last year.


----------



## tigerbob

I won't be on the board today because I'm just now leaving for the

HOME OPENER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Baseball's back!   Yahooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Porcello starts for the Tigers, mid 40's forecast for gametime (that's pretty good for a home opener) and we're playing the Tribe which is always a good local rivalry.

Outta here.  Have a good day y'all.


----------



## Andrew2382

just got back from the Marlins home opener....man what an atrocity....almost as bad Vasquez


----------



## Xenophon

CC had a no hitter 7 and a third, damn it was close.

NY bounces back and wins big in Tampa, crushing the Rays after the friday night debacle.


----------



## Modbert

Time for the Red Sox to get back on track tonight with Beckett.

Bad move pitching to Ankiel at all last night.


----------



## Andrew2382

Yankees pull out another nice win.  Big homer by Posada, swisher went deep and a good day at the  plate for A-rod.

Beckett looked good after the first 2 innings.

Mets got shelled.


----------



## tigerbob

Just got back from the Tigers game about half an hour ago.  Verlander gives up 5 in the first, but the Tigers just kept chipping away at it until a walk-off wild pitch decided it in the 9th.  Tigs win 9-8 and sweep.


----------



## Xenophon

NY took 4 of 6 on the road against division rivals.

Sweet.


----------



## Oddball

Twins look awesome in their old school home uniforms, for the opener at the Target.


----------



## Xenophon

NY wins another home opener, beating the Halos 7-5.

5-2 against the toughest league compitition so far, not bad.


----------



## tigerbob

Xenophon said:


> NY wins another home opener, beating the Halos 7-5.
> 
> 5-2 against the toughest league compitition so far, not bad.



Tigers beat up on the Royals pen yet AGAIN, winning 6-5, after being 5-0 down at the stretch!  

6 and 2 now, but this whole thing of not scoring against starters and hammering the pen is going to bite us in the ass sometime soon.

For now, I'll take it, but we're living on borrowed time.


----------



## Oddball

Liriano staked to an 8 run lead, throwing a 4-hit shutout, and they're going to lift him in the 8th.

God, how I loathe modern pitching strategy.


----------



## Paulie

Dude said:


> Liriano staked to an 8 run lead, throwing a 4-hit shutout, and they're going to lift him in the 8th.
> 
> God, how I loathe modern pitching strategy.



The shutout is the only reason why he should be allowed to stay in there.

Otherwise, 8 run lead, get him outta there.


----------



## Oddball

Well, exactly.

He gave up two hits in the first inning and the slider did the rest.

The guy deserved the SO.


----------



## Paulie

With a much tighter score, 1 or 2-0 for instance, I agree with the yank if there are visible signs that the starter is gassed...not locating pitches anymore, hanging his breaking balls, etc.

With an 8 run lead there's no reason in the world except if they noticed something that looked like he may have been hurt in some way.  A wince, a limp, etc.


----------



## Oddball

He was friggin' cruising.


----------



## Paulie

Yeah I don't know any of the details at all.

I'm just reacting to what you posted.  

That's the kind of move that pushes your players away, as a manager.  

How did Liriano seem to react to the move as he gave the ball up?


----------



## Oddball

Just fine...The Twins weed out drama queens  in the minors.


----------



## Xenophon

NY wins its third straight series, 6-2 behind Cano's 2 HR and nice pitching from the bull pen and starter Phil Hughes.


----------



## Article 15

Kazmir is terrible ... what a disappointment he's becoming.


----------



## Xenophon

Article 15 said:


> Kazmir is terrible ... what a disappointment he's becoming.


Back when the mets had him, the scouting report was he was too fragile.

Its showing now, the guy is just lame.


----------



## Paulie

I'm reserving excitement about the Phils for now, considering we've only played 2 of the worst teams in baseball so far.

We have a 10 game trip coming up with some tough teams, so we'll see what we're really made of very soon.  We miss Josh Johnson in Fla though, which is nice except for the fact that I'd just like to see us face a tough pitcher.

We only scored 2 runs against Oswalt, and that was the only game we DIDN'T bust out big, offensively.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> Kazmir is terrible ... what a disappointment he's becoming.



His atrocious World Series performance in 08 was _one_ giveaway...


----------



## Xenophon

NY wins in a rain shortened game 5-1 as CC is great.


----------



## Oddball

Looking good for a Thursday afternoon tilt for The Dude.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNWJooP8ycI&NR=1]YouTube - Twins TV Commercial "Handshake"[/ame]


----------



## Xenophon

NY wins again, 7-3 to take its 4th straight series.


----------



## Paulie

So we faced Nolasco last night, a good pitcher, and only scored 1.

So the only 2 pitchers we've faced that are good, Nolasco and Oswalt, we've scored a total of 2 runs against.

Interesting...


----------



## Xenophon

Losing Rollins doesn't help.


----------



## Paulie

Yeah but he wasn't hurt yet when we faced Oswalt, and still got nothing.  Plus, we still scored our almost 8 runs/game average against all the mediocre pitchers we faced after he got hurt.

Victorino can pretty much replace Rollins offense out of the leadoff spot.  And so far Juan Castro has been filling in nicely as well.

We have SF coming up.  Not sure if we'll see Lincecum, I'd have to go check the schedules.  But I'd like to at least see him or Cain.  It's time to find out how real this offense really is.


----------



## Xenophon

Jeets is out with a bad cold.


----------



## Xenophon

NY sweeps Texas, as Tex hits his first of the year.


----------



## Andrew2382

This Yankee team so far is a juggernaut


----------



## Article 15

4-9

Sheesh


----------



## tigerbob

tigerbob said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the answer is.......Johnny will have a big year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The over/under on how many runners he throws out at the plate is 0.5, and i'm taking the under.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a fair point.  Actually, I'd still take the under if he was playing shortstop.
Click to expand...


We both lose, Mani.  

Damon gunned an Angel last night trying to take 2nd on a sac fly to medium left.  That said, he's probably the only outfielder in the league whose arm they would have tried to run on from that depth.  I could have made the throw.

I DVRd it and watched it 3 or 4 times to check it really was Damon.


----------



## Xenophon

What is up with the Red Sox, swept in four at home by the Rays?

That ain't good.


----------



## Oddball

Looks like the Twins still remember how to strand RISP and not put any crooked numbers up in the process.


----------



## Article 15

Dude said:


> Looks like the Twins still remember how to strand RISP and not put any crooked numbers up in the process.



We just broke up an 0-32 with RISP streak tonight ...


----------



## Article 15

Xenophon said:


> What is up with the Red Sox, swept in four at home by the Rays?
> 
> That ain't good.



We got clobbered by a better team.


----------



## Article 15

9 steals given up tonight ... SO FAR!

How's that run prevention, pitching and defense working out for ya' Theo?


----------



## Oddball

Article 15 said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the Twins still remember how to strand RISP and not put any crooked numbers up in the process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We just broke up an 0-32 with RISP streak tonight ...
Click to expand...

Try 21 ABs with the bases juiced and only three hits....Counting the groundout Mauer just hit.


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> 9 steals given up tonight ... SO FAR!
> 
> How's that run prevention, pitching and defense working out for ya' Theo?



So how about those Celtics and Bruins?


----------



## elvis

Dogbert said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9 steals given up tonight ... SO FAR!
> 
> How's that run prevention, pitching and defense working out for ya' Theo?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how about those Celtics and Bruins?
Click to expand...


has Garnett had to contend with "Michael fuckin Jordan" recently?


----------



## Article 15

Dogbert said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9 steals given up tonight ... SO FAR!
> 
> How's that run prevention, pitching and defense working out for ya' Theo?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how about those Celtics and Bruins?
Click to expand...


*The Celtics are laying the wood to the Heat.*


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> *The Celtics are laying the wood to the Heat.*



They are. They blew a 10 point lead but got back up to 8 again. They're doing better than I thought they would so far without KG.


----------



## Xenophon

Article 15 said:


> 9 steals given up tonight ... SO FAR!
> 
> How's that run prevention, pitching and defense working out for ya' Theo?


Martinez is no defensive catcher, that's for sure.


----------



## Oddball

Lord, how I miss Halsey Hall.






*Play the sound clip.*


----------



## Paulie

Ryan Madson is not a closer.  I don't know why the philly media and the broadcasters keep trying to pretend he could be one.

Fucking 3 runs in the 9th to not only ruin Kendrick's goose egg, but blow the save and lead to an extra inning loss.

Bullshit.


----------



## Xenophon

NY keeps rolling, knocking off the As easily.


----------



## Oddball

> *Every time you look into center field at Twins Target Field, remember artist Ray Barton*
> 
> Ray Barton drew the picture of two baseball players, shaking hands across a river, for $15.
> 
> The well-known St. Paul cartoonist and illustrator knocked out the image as a side job in 1961, assuming it would grace the sides of Dixie cups at Metropolitan Stadium for the state's new baseball team, the Minnesota Twins.
> 
> But when team owner and notorious penny-pincher Calvin Griffith saw Barton's picture, he decided to turn it into the team's official logo  much to Barton's chagrin.
> 
> "He told me he never really liked it. It wasn't one of his crowning achievements," said Tony Barton, one of the illustrator's six children. "He was a cartoonist, a writer, a creative director, but he never really thought it was that great. And if you look at it close, it really isn't. Anyone out of art school could have done it. He just happened to be the one who did it."
> 
> Ray Barton, a native of St. Paul, died Sunday of cancer. He was 80 years old.



Every time you look into center field at Twins Target Field, remember artist Ray Barton - TwinCities.com

The original:


----------



## Paulie

Anyone see this play yet???

Not MLB, but so what!  

[youtube]RW0bb2wxH5Y&[/youtube]


----------



## Modbert

Paulie said:


> Anyone see this play yet???
> 
> Not MLB, but so what!
> 
> [youtube]RW0bb2wxH5Y&[/youtube]



This should of been the #1 play on Sportscenter last night. It was only #4.


----------



## Paulie

Dogbert said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone see this play yet???
> 
> Not MLB, but so what!
> 
> [youtube]RW0bb2wxH5Y&[/youtube]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This should of been the #1 play on Sportscenter last night. It was only #4.
Click to expand...


What the hell beat it?


----------



## Modbert

Paulie said:


> What the hell beat it?



#1 was the Braves extra inning HR.

#2 was some baseball play not as good.

#3 was a catch made with the glove in the stands. This play was superior to them all.


----------



## Article 15

Nancy hit a grand salami ...


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> Nancy hit a grand salami ...



Finally pulling his weight and earning that paycheck.


----------



## Paulie

Dogbert said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell beat it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #1 was the Braves extra inning HR.
> 
> #2 was some baseball play not as good.
> 
> #3 was a catch made with the glove in the stands. This play was superior to them all.
Click to expand...


A measly walk-off gets #1?

Gay.


----------



## Article 15

Dogbert said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nancy hit a grand salami ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally pulling his weight and earning that paycheck.
Click to expand...


Hardly ...


----------



## Modbert

Article 15 said:


> Hardly ...



It's a start.

Darnell McDonald should be starting after that.


----------



## Oddball

Liriano looks sharp again.

Tomorrow afternoon is soooo gonna kick ass!


----------



## Paulie

Dude said:


> Liriano looks sharp again.



Kendrick got yanked out from under a 3-0 shutout after the 8th, only to watch Madson blow it, last night.

This might be hindsight talking, but a 3 run lead is right on the borderline of just letting the dude keep the damn ball, if not actually being enough already.

If the starter goes 8 and gives up 0, 9 times out of 10 it should be his game to lose.


----------



## Paulie

Of course no one dares take the ball away from Halladay when _he's_ got one going.


----------



## Article 15

Paulie said:


> Of course no one dares take the ball away from Halladay when _he's_ got one going.



Halladay could throw 150+ pitches in a game like they used to barely 20 years ago.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course no one dares take the ball away from Halladay when _he's_ got one going.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halladay could throw 150+ pitches in a game like they used to barely 20 years ago.
Click to expand...


The guy gets _better_ in the late innings.  He's really fun to watch.  Worth every cent


----------



## Article 15

Paulie said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course no one dares take the ball away from Halladay when _he's_ got one going.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halladay could throw 150+ pitches in a game like they used to barely 20 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy gets _better_ in the late innings.  He's really fun to watch.  Worth every cent
Click to expand...


Preaching to the choir, my man ... I'm content with him the fuck out of my division and league.  I've seen quite enough of Doc over the years.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Halladay could throw 150+ pitches in a game like they used to barely 20 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guy gets _better_ in the late innings.  He's really fun to watch.  Worth every cent
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Preaching to the choir, my man ... I'm content with him the fuck out of my division and league.  I've seen quite enough of Doc over the years.
Click to expand...


I bet.

I never got to see much of him other than a couple innings during spring training because we play them a lot.

Otherwise, ESPN doesn't broadcast many Jays games, and god forbid they made the playoffs being in that division.


----------



## Xenophon

Time for Yankees baseball, excellent.


----------



## Oddball

Liriano skunks 'em thru 8 innings again.

Pulled him for the 9th...There oughtta be a law.


----------



## Xenophon

Phil Hughes had a no hitter through 7, and lost it on an infield comebacker which he thought went over his head but instead bounced back towards home.

NY still won its 6th in a row 3-1.


----------



## Xenophon

NY turns a triple play and CC goes the distance but NY still losses 4-2.

Off to play the halos.


----------



## Oddball

Pitching sucked, offense was offensive, but they still couldn't wreck a day of sunshine and the smell of freshly mown grass.


----------



## Article 15

> Terry Francona revealed today that after undergoing his first CT scan since injuring his ribs in a collision with Adrian Beltre in Kansas City on April 11th, Jacoby Ellsbury has hairline fractures on four of his ribs, which accounts for the pain he's been in.



Ellsbury has fractures; Dice-K set to join rotation - Extra Bases - Red Sox blog

Ugh ...


----------



## tigerbob

Xenophon said:


> NY turns a triple play and CC goes the distance but NY still losses 4-2.
> 
> Off to play the halos.



Tigers just split a 4 game set with Anaheim and are 3-4 so far on a west coast swing.  Now heading to TX for 4 before coming home to host the Twins.  All games against the Twins are likely to figure in the division race, so hopefully we can go in with some momentum.

Guillen tweaked a hammy rounding 3rd and will go to the 15 day.  Brebo coming up from AAA, where he was hitting about .350.......


----------



## Oddball

A really cool interactive Target Field page, complete with panorama views from every section of the park:

Target Field Stadium View | twinsbaseball.com: Ballpark


----------



## Oddball

So far, it's a double derby in KC tonight!


----------



## Xenophon

Pettit is great again as NY breaks a 2 game losing streak, and Cano collects 4 hits.


----------



## Andrew2382

Does the core ever age?


----------



## Xenophon

Affraid so, but new players come along to pick up the mantle.

Cano looks like a budding hall of famer doesn't he.


----------



## Paulie

Phils rotation has taken quite a beating with 2 guys out, Blanton rehabing in the minors and should be back soon.  Guys aren't stepping up in their absence and the lineup has gotten a bit cold lately, with us losing the 3 game set in Arizona, 2-1.

Arizona has like zero pitching, but that offense is sick.  If they can get something going with that rotation, or pick someone up, they could contend in the west.


----------



## Andrew2382

Javy vazquez picking up where he left off with the pinstripes.

What a bum this guy is


----------



## Paulie

We get Lincecum on Wednesday.  Hoping to give him his first L.

Too bad Halladay goes tomorrow, that would be a great matchup.


----------



## tigerbob

Tigs split in TX and end an 11 game road trip (M's, Halos, Rangers) 5-6.  Now back to Detroit for a 3 game set against the division leading Twinkies.


----------



## elvis

tigerbob said:


> Tigs split in TX and end an 11 game road trip (M's, Halos, Rangers) 5-6.  Now back to Detroit for a 3 game set against the division leading Twinkies.



5-6 is pretty good considering that long road trip.


----------



## Oddball

> *Bob Uecker to Undergo Heart Surgery*
> 
> The Milwaukee Brewers announced Tuesday that Hall of Fame broadcaster Bob Uecker is expected to undergo heart surgery this Friday and miss the next 10-12 weeks in recovery.
> 
> Dr. Jim Kleczka said at a press conference that Uecker has an enlarged aorta and an aortic valve that needs to be replaced.
> 
> "Something needs to be done," Kleczka said. "He's at high risk of something bad happening."
> 
> Kleczka has been monitoring Uecker's condition since last September, but the announcer noticed a turn for the worse when he had to change his breathing pattern while swimming on the Brewers' most recent road trip.


http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/04/27/bob-uecker-to-undergo-heart-surgery/

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw42jf-uQcY&feature=related]YouTube - Miller Lite Commercial with Bob Uecker[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc3UGda8T8c&feature=related]YouTube - Bob Uecker "Mr. Baseball" - Beer Commercial[/ame]


----------



## Oddball

Twins score 1 and leave the bases juiced..._*AGAIN!*_


----------



## Oddball

Liriano skunks the Tigers thru eight...Will they let him finish the job this time?

Nope...To hell with the most overrated statistic in all of sports....The save.


----------



## tigerbob

Dude said:


> *Bob Uecker to Undergo Heart Surgery*
> 
> The Milwaukee Brewers announced Tuesday that Hall of Fame broadcaster Bob Uecker is expected to undergo heart surgery this Friday and miss the next 10-12 weeks in recovery.
> 
> Dr. Jim Kleczka said at a press conference that Uecker has an enlarged aorta and an aortic valve that needs to be replaced.
> 
> "Something needs to be done," Kleczka said. "He's at high risk of something bad happening."
> 
> Kleczka has been monitoring Uecker's condition since last September, but the announcer noticed a turn for the worse when he had to change his breathing pattern while swimming on the Brewers' most recent road trip.
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Uecker to Undergo Heart Surgery -- MLB FanHouse
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw42jf-uQcY&feature=related]YouTube - Miller Lite Commercial with Bob Uecker[/ame]
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc3UGda8T8c&feature=related]YouTube - Bob Uecker "Mr. Baseball" - Beer Commercial[/ame]
Click to expand...


Wish him well.


----------



## tigerbob

Dude said:


> Liriano skunks the Tigers thru eight...Will they let him finish the job this time?
> 
> Nope...To hell with the most overrated statistic in all of sports....The save.



Ugly K to end the game.  Twinkies win, Tigers not good enough tonight.  

On a more positive note, my son's Little League team won their season opener tonight 12-0.


----------



## Xenophon

Lost to Baltimore today, Giradi freaked out in the 6th and over managed and teh game got out of hand.

Huges was ahead 2-1 and easily got 2 outs in the 6th, when Joe decides 110 pitches is enough (as if 5 more and his arm would fall off) and brings in a lefty to face a lefty.

Ol Boone walks the guy he's supposed to get out, and he's yanked for Robertson, who promptly hits a guy with a 0-2 pitch, followed by two straight singles and bye bye lead.

After another hit they finally pull him, but NY was now trailing 4-2 on the way to a 5-4 loss.


----------



## Paulie

Dude said:


> Liriano skunks the Tigers thru eight...Will they let him finish the job this time?
> 
> Nope...To hell with the most overrated statistic in all of sports....The save.



Wait a minute, so that's like 3 yanks in a row after 8 scoreless for him, right?

I don't agree about the save though.  The STATISTIC is over-rated, but it's a tough job closing out a game.


----------



## Oddball

Seven the first time and eight the last two.

23 scoreless innings and no CG shutout to show for it.


----------



## Paulie

I didn't notice that you mentioned the "statistic" part up there, I basically just made a redundant statement there about the save 

Wow though.  I'm speechless about the Liriano thing.


----------



## Oddball

Scott Baker stinks up the joint yet again...Gags up a 5-run lead.

He'd better get his poop in a group soon, or he's on the express bus to the bullpen.


----------



## Paulie

The Phils have gotta be the streakiest team in the league.


----------



## Oddball

Twins give up 6 in the bottom of the 6th, aided by a really, _*REALLY*_ horrible call.


----------



## Big Black Dog

Just one thing to say about baseball.  Go Phillies.  That about says it all.


----------



## Oddball

Thanks, Forrest.


----------



## Paulie

Linc shuts us down, and if not for late inning heroics we would have been swept.

I'm not real comfortable about our situation right now, except that some of our guys out are close to being back.

But hey, at least Howard got his 25 mil a year


----------



## tigerbob

Dude said:


> Twins give up 6 in the bottom of the 6th, aided by a really, _*REALLY*_ horrible call.



I've been on the Tigers m/b all game.  90% of Tigers fans say.......it was a catch.

Runs would still probably have scored since it was only the 2nd out, but Gardenhire is well within his rights to be massively pissed.


----------



## Oddball

The 4 runs after that play possibly wouldn't have scored.

Even though I'm the last guy on Earf who wants instant replay, the umpiring in baseball needs to improve somehow or another.


----------



## tigerbob

Dude said:


> The 4 runs after that play possibly wouldn't have scored.
> 
> Even though I'm the last guy on Earf who wants instant replay, the umpiring in baseball needs to improve somehow or another.



After the 'dropped' catch (which should have been the 2nd out), the walk to Maggs loaded the bases and the runs scored on a Cabrera HBP, then the 3 doubles.  Though I agree that any change potentially changes everything (I sound like Obama), so I guess we'll never know.

I'm going to the game tomorrow. Will be waiting anxiously to see which Dontrelle shows up.

Agree about the umpiring.


----------



## Xenophon

CC is the cure for a Yankees losing streak, NY beats the birds 8-3.


----------



## tigerbob

Just got back from Comerica Park.  Really, really good day.  

Dontrelle pitched 6+ very strong shutout innings, Maggs got his 2,000th career hit and Austin Jackson continues to impress.  For the Twins, Pavano pitched well, but the lack of offense has to be at least in part due to RG's decision to rest certain players.  Mauer pinch hit in the 8th for Butera (can you tell I was keeping score?) but Zumaya struck him out on 3 straight pitches.

3-0 Tigers, and the Tigs take 2 of 3 to close to within 1.5 of the Twins in the Central.

Angels visit for 3 starting tomorrow.  I'm taking the kids to the Sunday game.


----------



## Wicked Jester

Dude said:


> Twins score 1 and leave the bases juiced..._*AGAIN!*_


Don't feel bad. That seems to be my beloved Dodgers Modus Operandi this young season.


----------



## Xenophon

Jeets beat the pale hose almost single handed, 4 RBIs as NY wins 6-4.


----------



## tigerbob

Tigs take the opener against the Halos with an 8 run 4th, including Gerald Laird's first homer of the year, immediately followed by rookie Scott Sizemore's first big league home run, and capped by rookie Brendan Boesch's first big league homer - a Grand Slam.

Tigers players gave Sizemore the fake silent treatment after his round tripper - really funny.


----------



## tigerbob

Damon keeps the game close by throwing Matsui out at the plate in the 6th (WTF???), wins it with a solo walk off in the 9th and gets the Barbasol pie in the face during the post game interview.  That's a trifecta.

Tigs 3-2 over the halos for their 4th straight W.


----------



## Oddball

OK stat-a-holics...

Who has left the bases loaded more and hit into more DPs than the Twins so far?

They're killin' me!


----------



## elvis

Dude said:


> OK stat-a-holics...
> 
> Who has left the bases loaded more and hit into more DPs than the Twins so far?
> 
> They're killin' me!



I'd say the cubs, but then they'd actually have to get people on base to hit into the DPs.


----------



## Oddball

Well, well, well....They just performed both feats again.

They ever knock this choke crap off on offense and keep the pitching going, they're going to win 110 games.


----------



## Oddball

Now batting below .170  (3 for 36 = .166) with the bases loaded, as Cuddyer.........



.....wait for it.....






Grounds into a double play.


----------



## Oddball

Juiced 'em again with no out in the 9th....Fielding error allows the run to score.

No hit...No RBI.

Morneau pops out, Casilla & Young K.

Now 7-for-43 (.162) on the season.


----------



## tigerbob

Historically, Verlander has an ERA of well over 5 in April, and about 2.50 in May.

True to form, he's been pretty lousy this April.

But now it's May, and instantly he goes 9 1/3, giving up one run on 3 hits, with no BB and seven Ks, at one point retiring 23 straight.    Best pitching performance I've seen live since Clemens struck out 20 Tigers.

Tigs sweep the Halos, are now 16-10 and head into Minnesota 0.5 behind the Twinkies.


----------



## tigerbob

tigerbob said:


> Historically, Verlander has an ERA of well over 5 in April, and about 2.50 in May.
> 
> True to form, he's been pretty lousy this April.
> 
> But now it's May, and instantly he goes *9 1/3*, giving up one run on 3 hits, with no BB and seven Ks, at one point retiring 23 straight.    Best pitching performance I've seen live since Clemens struck out 20 Tigers.
> 
> Tigs sweep the Halos, are now 16-10 and head into Minnesota 0.5 behind the Twinkies.



9 1/3?  Clearly having so much fun they couldn't drag him off the mound!

Not so tonight.  Tigs waxed at Twins as Scherzer gets beat up early and often.  Win streak ends at 5.


----------



## tigerbob

Tigs lose 4-3 at the Twins.  Appropriate I guess since, with the announcement of Ernie Harwell's death, today is a sad day.

R.I.P Ernie.


----------



## Oddball

Twins finally sweep. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvfhmabHRv8]YouTube - Twins Territory Flagpole Commercial[/ame]


----------



## Wicked Jester

tigerbob said:


> Tigs lose 4-3 at the Twins.  Appropriate I guess since, with the announcement of Ernie Harwell's death, today is a sad day.
> 
> R.I.P Ernie.


RIP!

We're down to about one living legend play by play announcer now, Vin Scully.


----------



## tigerbob

Dude said:


> Twins finally sweep.



Tigers finally swept.


----------



## tigerbob

Wicked Jester said:


> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tigs lose 4-3 at the Twins.  Appropriate I guess since, with the announcement of Ernie Harwell's death, today is a sad day.
> 
> R.I.P Ernie.
> 
> 
> 
> RIP!
> 
> We're down to about one living legend play by play announcer now, Vin Scully.
Click to expand...


Yeah, other than him, who else is left of the "old guard"?


----------



## Wicked Jester

tigerbob said:


> Wicked Jester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tigerbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tigs lose 4-3 at the Twins.  Appropriate I guess since, with the announcement of Ernie Harwell's death, today is a sad day.
> 
> R.I.P Ernie.
> 
> 
> 
> RIP!
> 
> We're down to about one living legend play by play announcer now, Vin Scully.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, other than him, who else is left of the "old guard"?
Click to expand...

Can't really think of any except for Dick Enberg also.

It's still weird watching or listening to Lakers games without Chick Hearn. It's going to be a shock to the system once again when we lose Scully. Hopefully, it's a long time comin'.


----------



## Oddball

Does Ralph Kiner count?


----------



## Wicked Jester

Dude said:


> Does Ralph Kiner count?


Sure does!.....Forgot about Kiner.


----------



## Oddball

How about Uecker?


----------



## Wicked Jester

Dude said:


> How about Uecker?


As a color man, yes.

What is he, like 109 by now?


----------



## tigerbob

Wicked Jester said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about Uecker?
> 
> 
> 
> As a color man, yes.
> 
> What is he, like 109 by now?
Click to expand...


Nooooo, Uecker is _relatively_ young, which is why I don't think of him as old guard in the way that I think or Ernie, Harry Caray and (I stand corrected) Kiner.

Actually I just looked up Uecker and he is a bit older than I thought LOL!


----------



## Oddball

Said it before...I'll say it again...

God, how I miss Halsey Hall.


----------



## tigerbob

Dude said:


> Said it before...I'll say it again...
> 
> God, how I miss Halsey Hall.



Before my time I guess.

But....panty waste????


----------



## Oddball

Halsey was awesome...He was that uncle at family functions who drank and smoked just a little too much, yet had all the greatest stories.

Met him once, when I was but a young pup...Wish I had known what a true legend of broadcasting he was.



> During rain delays, Halsey was in demand from the opposing team's broadcast crew, as well. They put him on their stations and, as a result, Halsey developed a following in other American League cities.
> 
> And just as Halsey could tell stories, there were many stories told about Halsey.
> 
> Several revolve around his love of distilled beverages and the satchel full of liquor bottles that he lugged along on road trips. If asked about the contents of his bag, he would say it contained reference books. "If that was the case," said one colleague, "they were the only reference books I ever knew of that clinked."
> 
> Joe Soucheray said Halsey had so many bottles in his satchel that, when he stepped off a plane, he sounded like a glockenspiel.
> 
> And then there was the time a cub reporter once asked the venerable Mr. Hall why he bothered carrying his own liquor; after all, every town they visited had a bar. "My boy," Halsey replied, "you never know when you'll run into a local election."
> 
> <snip>
> 
> In 1961, Halsey became a member of the original broadcast crew for the Minnesota Twins. For many years his partners on Twins' broadcasts were Herb Carneal and Ray Scott. They both loved Halsey even though they may not of been too fond of some of his habits--particularly his copious consumption of green onions and his cigars.
> 
> "Halsey always enjoyed a good cigar," Herb Carneal once said. "Unfortunately, those weren't the kind he smoked."



Halsey Hall Chapter - SABR: Halsey Hall Biography


----------



## Paulie

Phils take 3 of 4 from St. Louis in the face of continuing injuries to key players.

Halladay continues to be worth every penny.


----------



## Oddball

A Kestrel has claimed the right field foul pole at Target Field as its gameday perch.








> I love Minnesota Twins baseball, and I love watching birds. Well, last night the two came together and I enjoyed both at the same time. From time to time throughout the game, the Twins' announcers, Dick Bremer and Bert Blyleven, commented about an American Kestrel that was perched on the right field foul pole. The camera operators showed the bird to the TV audience several times. Finally, late in the game we saw the kestrel actually catch a moth in mid-air and then eat it while perched on the foul pole. The Twins lost 2-0, so that little falcon was really the star of the game!



Target Field hawk eats moth, crowd goes wild [VIDEO] - Minneapolis / St. Paul News - The Blotter

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTvxeZsXa3g]YouTube - Video 2[/ame]


----------



## tigerbob

Tigs beat Yanks 5-4 on a really unusual pitching night.  Valverde Ks the heart of the Yankee lineup (and really pisses off Swisher) for his 9th save.


----------



## tigerbob

tigerbob said:


> Tigs beat Yanks 5-4 on a really unusual pitching night.  Valverde Ks the heart of the Yankee lineup (and really pisses off Swisher) for his 9th save.



Tigers shut out the Yanks twice, taking 3 of 4 at home.  BoSox up next.


----------



## Oddball

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvfhmabHRv8]YouTube - Twins Territory Flagpole Commercial[/ame]


----------



## tigerbob

Tigs take 2 of 3 from Boston!  Welcome back Armando Galarraga!

Bye fellow baseball fans, and Go Tigers!


----------



## Wicked Jester

My Dodgers are about to take out Houston for their 9th win in a row.

Go blue!


----------



## Oddball

Twins lead the lead in choking:

#1 in GIDP.

Last in the league in BA with the bases loaded.


----------



## Paulie

Phils games lately:


----------



## Truthspeaker

Jake Starkey says he'll trade me Matt Kemp for one of my front line starters on the Giants. 


I SAY


----------



## Jack Fate

Since this is the official baseball thread, here is a classic from the great Earl Weaver.

Solomonia: Saturday Night Profanity: The Great Earl Weaver


----------



## elvis

tigerbob said:


> Tigs take 2 of 3 from Boston!  Welcome back Armando Galarraga!
> 
> Bye fellow baseball fans, and Go Tigers!



any relation to Andres?


----------



## Oddball

Griffey jr. retires.


----------



## Oddball

Tigers (Armando Gallaraga) just had a perfect game stolen from them, on the 27th out,  by a totally awful call.


----------



## Samson




----------



## Jack Fate

Dude said:


> Griffey jr. retires.



He should have retired at the end of last season.  He only hit .220 as a DH with about 10 homers.  I told the GM not to bring him back, but they need to sell tickets.  I told him, what sells tickets is a winning team.  I don't know why they don't listen to the fans.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Dude said:


> Tigers (Armando Gallaraga) just had a perfect game stolen from them, on the 27th out,  by a totally awful call.



Saw it. Terrible! A true felony and worthy of arrest. At least he admitted it. Now I feel sorry for the ump. He's quoted saying with his head down, "I just cost that kid a perfect game. I really was convinced the batter beat the ball to the bag. Until I saw the replay....It was the biggest call of my life and I blew it..."


----------



## Truthspeaker

Jack Fate said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Griffey jr. retires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He should have retired at the end of last season.  He only hit .220 as a DH with about 10 homers.  I told the GM not to bring him back, but they need to sell tickets.  I told him, what sells tickets is a winning team.  I don't know why they don't listen to the fans.
Click to expand...


It's too bad. Really too bad. Such a great player....What might have been.


----------



## Jack Fate

Give the kid the perfecto.  Everyone wants him to have it including the ump.  He earned it so let him have it.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Jack Fate said:


> Give the kid the perfecto.  Everyone wants him to have it including the ump.  He earned it so let him have it.



But you see if Bud Selig overturned the call and gave the kid the perfect game, then he would break his own personal streak of perfection. A perfect streak of terrible decisions for who-knows-how-many years. That's right up there with DiMaggio's streak as far as unbreakable streaks in baseball..


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Jake Starkey says he'll trade me Matt Kemp for one of my front line starters on the Giants.
> 
> 
> I SAY



Dude, I wouldn't trade any of your front line starters for Kemp AND Ethier.


----------



## Jack Fate

Truthspeaker said:


> Jack Fate said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the kid the perfecto.  Everyone wants him to have it including the ump.  He earned it so let him have it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you see if Bud Selig overturned the call and gave the kid the perfect game, then he would break his own personal streak of perfection. A perfect streak of terrible decisions for who-knows-how-many years. That's right up there with DiMaggio's streak as far as unbreakable streaks in baseball..
Click to expand...


I agree.  For once, just once, I wish the commissioner was a baseball fan.


----------



## Paulie

Hey A-15, didn't I tell you Beltre would have a good year?



Paulie said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian Belte....
> 
> not a fan of that at all.
> 
> Mets interested in Carlos Delgado lmao.  How the fuck does Omar have a job.  He is awful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm glad we got Polanco over Beltre.
> 
> But I'm going to make a very strange prediction right here and now:  Beltre has a good year for the Sox in '10.
> 
> I'll be resurrecting this post whether I'm right or not.  I'll wait til about June to get a good idea, and go from there.
> 
> I don't know why I think that, other than I think he's got something left and he's due.  The other big contract was a lot of pressure.  This time around all eyes are not on him, other than the 'nation'.
Click to expand...


The glove leaves a lot to be desired though.

I'm still happy with Polanco over Beltre though.  He fits right in with us.

I also have to admit that I was dead WRONG about Franceour.  The guy is a bum.


----------



## Article 15

Yeah, man.  I HATED that signing but I'm wicked happy I was wrong.  He's much more productive at Fenway than at Safeco plus he's  raking to the tune of .366/.390/.598 on the road.  Sick!  Him and Youk have been by far the most consistent hitters in our line up.    I don't know what the deal is with all his defensive miscues so far ... it would really blow if that carries over, or heaven forbid gets worse in the postseason.   


Gotta wonder if he's on something though ....


----------



## Article 15

I had EMC Club seats to Saturday's game and managed to snap a couple of decent pics out of almost 200.  I'll post them either later tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## Truthspeaker

best off season signing of the year?

aubrey huff. paying him 3 million dollars.  hitting .312, 12 bombs, 43 ribs.

Of course the Giants would always sign a guy like this. Washed up star from years previous. Only this time the plan backfired. Huff is producing.


----------



## Article 15

The legends.






Mr. Gammons at the ballpark.






Manny's first base it.


----------



## Article 15

Timmy.






Pedey flying out.






Manny's home run.


----------



## Article 15

Papelbon.






Dusty leaving the field after his walk off base hit against Broxton with 2 outs to win the game!


----------



## Article 15

That's all I got.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> Yeah, man.  I HATED that signing but I'm wicked happy I was wrong.  He's much more productive at Fenway than at Safeco plus he's  raking to the tune of .366/.390/.598 on the road.  Sick!  Him and Youk have been by far the most consistent hitters in our line up.    I don't know what the deal is with all his defensive miscues so far ... it would really blow if that carries over, or heaven forbid gets worse in the postseason.
> 
> 
> Gotta wonder if he's on something though ....



I doubt he's on anything.  Look at HR totals around the league right now.  No one even has 20 yet.  The league leaders are on pace to hit _maybe_ 40 hr.  And the pitching is really great, with like 5 guys _under_ 2 era, and a bunch in the low 2's.  I'd say the bat speeds aren't what they used to be.  Guys seem like they're cycled off the juice/prohormones these days.  Too much to risk anymore.  Too many eyes are on them.

I'm POSITIVE he was juiced during his runner-up MVP year though.

Btw, those pics are cool.  How was it seeing and hearing the fans' reaction to Manny live?


----------



## Article 15

Paulie said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, man.  I HATED that signing but I'm wicked happy I was wrong.  He's much more productive at Fenway than at Safeco plus he's  raking to the tune of .366/.390/.598 on the road.  Sick!  Him and Youk have been by far the most consistent hitters in our line up.    I don't know what the deal is with all his defensive miscues so far ... it would really blow if that carries over, or heaven forbid gets worse in the postseason.
> 
> 
> Gotta wonder if he's on something though ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he's on anything.  Look at HR totals around the league right now.  No one even has 20 yet.  The league leaders are on pace to hit _maybe_ 40 hr.  And the pitching is really great, with like 5 guys _under_ 2 era, and a bunch in the low 2's.  I'd say the bat speeds aren't what they used to be.  Guys seem like they're cycled off the juice/prohormones these days.  Too much to risk anymore.  Too many eyes are on them.
> 
> I'm POSITIVE he was juiced during his runner-up MVP year though.
> 
> Btw, those pics are cool.  How was it seeing and hearing the fans' reaction to Manny live?
Click to expand...


It was an indifferent reaction where I was ... the EMC club tix are super high end but the peasants booed him every AB.  Personally, I wish they had gotten it all out of their systems this weekend but sure enough the usual jackasses over at WEEI were out bashing Manny again yesterday.  The Boston media and the Red Sox organization are the ones most responsible at this point for the fans' ire towards Manny.  The hammer the guy whenever they get the chance but but they all knew he was a headcase when they signed him and without him it's unlikely we win those two titles.


----------



## Modbert

Awesome pics Art, you must of been real happy about Pedey's walkoff hit.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, man.  I HATED that signing but I'm wicked happy I was wrong.  He's much more productive at Fenway than at Safeco plus he's  raking to the tune of .366/.390/.598 on the road.  Sick!  Him and Youk have been by far the most consistent hitters in our line up.    I don't know what the deal is with all his defensive miscues so far ... it would really blow if that carries over, or heaven forbid gets worse in the postseason.
> 
> 
> Gotta wonder if he's on something though ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt he's on anything.  Look at HR totals around the league right now.  No one even has 20 yet.  The league leaders are on pace to hit _maybe_ 40 hr.  And the pitching is really great, with like 5 guys _under_ 2 era, and a bunch in the low 2's.  I'd say the bat speeds aren't what they used to be.  Guys seem like they're cycled off the juice/prohormones these days.  Too much to risk anymore.  Too many eyes are on them.
> 
> I'm POSITIVE he was juiced during his runner-up MVP year though.
> 
> Btw, those pics are cool.  How was it seeing and hearing the fans' reaction to Manny live?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was an indifferent reaction where I was ... the EMC club tix are super high end but the peasants booed him every AB.  Personally, I wish they had gotten it all out of their systems this weekend but sure enough the usual jackasses over at WEEI were out bashing Manny again yesterday.  The Boston media and the Red Sox organization are the ones most responsible at this point for the fans' ire towards Manny.  The hammer the guy whenever they get the chance but but they all knew he was a headcase when they signed him and without him it's unlikely we win those two titles.
Click to expand...


It's funny becuase in Philly it doesn't even take media egging fans on to elicit that kind of reaction.  We've been booing JD Drew now for like 10 years  

Same with Scott Rolen, too.

We only boo the guys who left like assholes.  When someone like Thome or Burrell comes to town, they're treated like family.

When I say we I don't mean me though.  I personally don't go to games to boo people.

As far as Manny and the titles go, fans ought to realize that and just chill out.  Every damn one of you knows you'd do it all over again if you had the chance, if it meant getting the first one in 2003.


----------



## Paulie

I'd probably be _way_ more pissed off at Damon than Manny.  Manny left under different circumstances, and also didn't sell his soul to the 'devil' for a few extra bucks after a historic world series championship season like Damon did.


----------



## Article 15

Paulie said:


> I'd probably be _way_ more pissed off at Damon than Manny.  Manny left under different circumstances, and also didn't sell his soul to the 'devil' for a few extra bucks after a historic world series championship season like Damon did.



Exactly.

Damon remains on the shit list.


----------



## Article 15

And 2003 was hellacious ... Grady Little ... Aaron effing Boone.

We won it all in 2004.


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> And 2003 was hellacious ... Grady Little ... Aaron effing Boone.
> 
> We won it all in 2004.



Yeah, my bad.  Different color Sox won it in '03


----------



## Modbert

Paulie said:


> Yeah, my bad.  Different color Sox won it in '03



Marlins beat the Yankees in '03 thankfully, White Sox won it in '05.


----------



## Paulie

Modbert said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, my bad.  Different color Sox won it in '03
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marlins beat the Yankees in '03 thankfully, White Sox won it in '05.
Click to expand...


Dude, I'm really off these last couple days in multiple ways 

My game is off at work too.  I need a fucking vacation.


----------



## Paulie

When I'm messing up on my favorite extra curricular thing in the entire world, something's definitely not right.

I got a week off from work the week of july 5, which coincidentally is also my birthday week.

I'm taking some time away from here, and the real world, and rebooting 

Later.


----------



## Modbert

Paulie said:


> When I'm messing up on my favorite extra curricular thing in the entire world, something's definitely not right.
> 
> I got a week off from work the week of july 5, which coincidentally is also my birthday week.
> 
> I'm taking some time away from here, and the real world, and rebooting
> 
> Later.



We all need to reboot once in awhile.


----------



## Oddball

> If a triple is baseball's most exciting play, then Denard Span  was, by the power of three, the most exciting player in the major leagues Tuesday night.
> 
> The speedy Span hit three triples, tying a modern major league record, and drove in five runs to help push the Minnesota Twins back into first place in the AL Central with an 11-4 victory against the Detroit Tigers.
> 
> Three triples! He totally cubed them!


Twins trifecta: Denard Span hits three triples, ties record - Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

*Video here!*


----------



## Article 15

It looks like the Twins are hungry for Cliff Lee.  He makes their team instantly a lot better.

Meanwhile, we're missing like half our team and somehow a game out of first.


----------



## Oddball

What they're hungry for is consistency....From anyone.

Even money that this afternoon's game will either be a Detroit blowout or a 1-run game that could go either way.


----------



## Article 15

Dude said:


> What they're hungry for is consistency....From anyone.
> 
> Even money that this afternoon's game will either be a Detroit blowout or a 1-run game that could go either way.



Cliff Lee is freakin' zen, man.  I bet his presence has a positive effect on Baker and would do wonders in taking some pressure off Liriano and whatever other scrubs you guys got in your rotation


----------



## Oddball

Carl Pavano is no scrub...Poor schlubb can't buy run support.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Dude said:


> Carl Pavano is no scrub...Poor schlubb can't buy run support.



Same thing with Matt Cain.


----------



## Oddball

Jim Thome ties Harmon Killebrew for #10 on the all time HR list, in Minneapolis.


----------



## Oddball

All alone in #10th place, with 574, as he parks one into the bullpen. 

Killebrew had a pre-recorded congratulatory announcement for Thome and the crowd.


----------



## Paulie

Jim Thome is one of the last of a dying breed of class acts in baseball.


----------



## Oddball

And not a mg of "the juice" in any of those HRs.


----------



## Paulie

Yep.  Some guys actually didn't forget that bat speed isn't all just about muscle.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Yep.  Some guys actually didn't forget that bat speed isn't all just about muscle.



One of the more country strong dudes ever to smack the leather and laces around.


----------



## Andrew2382

sup fellas!

I know i have been gone for a bit, work is crazy.  Just wanted to say whats up.

Go Yankees.  I'm glad swish got that last spot on the all star team


----------



## 2Parties

Blue Jays are my team tonight.  Love watching them beat down the lowly Twinkies.  

Any way the Tigers gain games in the central I'm all for it...


----------



## Oddball

The Twins stink outright.

They haven't won three in a row since May, lead the league in GIDP, and other than Liriano and Pavano the starters are sucking ass.


----------



## 2Parties

The stink until they play the Tigers.  The Tigers are complete garbage when they play the Twins (and the Royals).  I'm hoping the Tigers can just take 1 this weekend at home against them...


----------



## Article 15

If the Yankees get Cliff Lee I'm gonna whig out a bit.

Dude, tell your Twinkies to get the deal done.  They know their catching prospect is obsolete because Mauer is locked up.  Throw in some trimmings that the Yankees can't match and do this!


----------



## 2Parties

I love it that the Rangers got Lee.  The Yankees didn't get him and neither did the Twins.


----------



## Paulie

2Parties said:


> I love it that the Rangers got Lee.  The Yankees didn't get him and neither did the Twins.



The Rangers just became a _huge_ threat in the AL.

They can beat anyone now in a playoff series.

If I'm a yanks fan, I'm worried.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Go Rangers!


----------



## Truthspeaker

Finally the Giants draft a hitter who actually comes up through their system and produces. He catches a great game, rakes, is 21 years old and actually came through our farm system. He will be an all star next year. Hail Buster Posey!


----------



## JakeStarkey

Truthspeaker, I actually think the Dodgers, now that Zander has been sent down to the fan minor leagues, have a chance to get into the World Series.  As always, it comes down to pitching, great defense, and solid hitting.  Da Bums are OK in 1, good in 2, and very good in 3.  We will see.  Next year may be your year for the Giants.


----------



## Truthspeaker

JakeStarkey said:


> Truthspeaker, I actually think the Dodgers, now that Zander has been sent down to the fan minor leagues, have a chance to get into the World Series.  As always, it comes down to pitching, great defense, and solid hitting.  Da Bums are OK in 1, good in 2, and very good in 3.  We will see.  Next year may be your year for the Giants.



When Pablo Sandoval starts hitting it will be lights out for the rest of the West, because we will have a solid 3-4-5 for the first time when that happens with Huff, Posey, Sandoval.


----------



## Paulie

Tough luck losing Pettite, yanks fans.  A groin injury ain't just gonna be a 15 day'er.


----------



## Valerie

Awww I'm all broken up over it.


----------



## Paulie

Valerie said:


> Awww I'm all broken up over it.



Yeah I'm not exactly shedding a bucket full of tears over here, either


----------



## JakeStarkey

Well, the Dodgers have lost steadily since the All Star game.  Time to call Zander back up.  He may have something.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Alright Jake,
This is the time for the Giants to step on the Dodgers throats. Payback begins tonight.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The Dodgers will show tonight why Lincecum should go back to the minors.  They will knock him out by the second inning.  Go Blue!  We have a chance because Zander got sent back down again.


----------



## Wicked Jester

JakeStarkey said:


> The Dodgers will show tonight why Lincecum should go back to the minors.  They will knock him out by the second inning.  Go Blue!  We have a chance because Zander got sent back down again.


The Dodgers made a good move in aquiring Podsednik a couple o' days back. A solid 300 hitter who can steal bases and play all 3 positions in the outfield. Although they did have to give up one of the top catching prospects in the major leagues, it was a good move.

I love it when people write the Dodgers off. Particularly Giants fans. It always seems to explode in their faces. Just ask Wry catcher. I've been dealing with him for a couple ' years now. Everytime he writes the Dodgers off, the Giants tank. He wrote the Dodgers off two days ago. Look for the Giants to start heading for the cellar now......LOL!

Loose lips sink ships!


----------



## JakeStarkey

Aw, the Giants can be bad, though, to the Dodgers.  Not this time!  Lincecum is going to be Linceabum tonight!!


----------



## 2Parties

Tigers are a joke.  This seasons over.  They need offense.  Some of it's bad luck (injuries to Ordonez/Guillen/Inge) but their catching, SS, and 2nd baseman haven't cut it at the plate all season.  Before they got Peralta their line-up was essentially the best hitter in the game surrounded by minor leaguers.  Now it's the best hitter in the game surrounded by an average hitter and the rest minor leaguers.

They aren't going to be shutting out every team.


----------



## Andrew2382

Yankees acquire Lance Berman apparently.  i don't understand the move personally.  Why do we need another firstbasemen/DH? 

I would have liked to see some more bull pen help


----------



## Paulie

I would've rather had Haren than Oswalt.

But we got Oswalt CHEAP.  We only pick up 13 mil of what he's owed thru 2011, which is a good price for him at this point in his career.  And we aren't forced to exercise his 2012 option.  We get him for a year and a half at an average of 8.5 per year.  That's friggin GREAT for a pitcher who still has the best curve ball in the business and a mid 90's fast ball.  

Not to mention, we only really lost Happ.  The 2 minor league prospects we gave up were not named Drabek or Brown.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Putting Berkman in the two hole as a DH and backup first baseman and right fielder is brilliant.  Jeter, Berkman, Rodriquez, Texiera, Cano, Posada, etc.  Where does the opposing pitcher hide?  He can't hide in the dugout or the bullpen forever.  These are great moves for the Yanks.


----------



## 2Parties

I liked the moves the Yankees made but I still hate them.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Hating the Yanks is as American as hating the wacky right in the GOP.


----------



## Paulie

The yanks better do SOMETHING to combat the Rangers, cause they gonna be gettin they ASSES handed to em in the playoffs.

And San Fran will win the west.  That fat ass Heath Bell will be SD's downfall.


----------



## Andrew2382

the reason i dont like the move is because if we were gonna get another bat I would have preferred a righty, not another lefty


----------



## JakeStarkey

Berkman is a switch hitter with more power from the left and a higher average from the right side.  He can play first, left and right fields.  He looked uncomfortable last night and went 0 for 4.  It will take a week or so for him to find his niche.  Why?  He is the Big Puma in Houston, and in NYC he is one of many super starts all who have earned their cred there.  Give him time, and he will be fine.


----------



## Paulie

I digress about Heath Bell, while Brad Lidge is currently doing everything he can to ruin our pennant chase.


----------



## Truthspeaker

'Dem bums in blue are feelin pretty great right now after gettin swept by Los Gigantes in San Francisco. Man it feels good to repay. Finally Matt Cain beats the bums.


----------



## JakeStarkey

More than 50 games left but you have to feeling good, Truthspeaker.  Enjoy it, for it won't last long, and if we don't catch the Padres, what we feel won't matter.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Andrew2382 said:


> the reason i dont like the move is because if we were gonna get another bat I would have preferred a righty, not another lefty



Spoiled ass Yankee fan. The guy hits bombs and especially in a park built for lefties you should be elated.

If the Giants could have just one of those big bats, we'd run and hide with the pennant.


----------



## JakeStarkey

No, you wouldn't, Truthspeaker.  Your Giants are cursed.  If all they had to do to win the pennant was to step on the field the last day, the team bus on the way to the stadium would fall in the Bay.


----------



## Truthspeaker

JakeStarkey said:


> No, you wouldn't, Truthspeaker.  Your Giants are cursed.  If all they had to do to win the pennant was to step on the field the last day, the team bus on the way to the stadium would fall in the Bay.



Oh I think we would. Look at the numbers last month. This is the month the Giants finally started scoring runs. They averaged 5.5 runs a game and we won 17 of 22 games. Add another bat(or wake Pablo Sandoval up) and we might have matched The A's winning streak from 2002.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Ah, the bliss of a fan.


----------



## Article 15

We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.

This year has been so full of suck.


----------



## maineman

Article 15 said:


> We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.
> 
> This year has been so full of suck.



or we could sweep and be right back in it.  I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away.  don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.


----------



## Article 15

maineman said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.
> 
> This year has been so full of suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or we could sweep and be right back in it.  I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away.  don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.
Click to expand...


Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of.  Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away.  I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching.  A split this weekend is a crushing blow.


----------



## maineman

Article 15 said:


> maineman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.
> 
> This year has been so full of suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or we could sweep and be right back in it.  I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away.  don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of.  Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away.  I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching.  A split this weekend is a crushing blow.
Click to expand...


keep the faith!  and keep your fingers crossed!!


----------



## Paulie

Article 15 said:


> maineman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We could get destroyed in the Bronx this weekend.
> 
> This year has been so full of suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or we could sweep and be right back in it.  I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away.  don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of.  Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away.  I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching.  A split this weekend is a crushing blow.
Click to expand...


Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.

And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino.  Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.

We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.

Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best.  Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats.  Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.

It ain't over til it's OVER.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maineman said:
> 
> 
> 
> or we could sweep and be right back in it.  I remember guys in my carpool in 2004 after game 3 of the alcs complaining about the damned yankees and about how the bosox had done it again.... gotten our hopes up only to piss it all away.  don't ever give up hope.... I think the team has great character.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of.  Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away.  I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching.  A split this weekend is a crushing blow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.
> 
> And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino.  Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.
> 
> We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.
> 
> Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best.  Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats.  Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.
> 
> It ain't over til it's OVER.
Click to expand...


You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.


----------



## maineman

Red Sox take game one of the series against the yankees on the back of a great performance by Clay.... one step at a time.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Outside of Bard and sometimes Papelbon this team doesn't have a bullpen to speak of.  Youk is gone for the season and Pedey is still weeks away.  I think it would be great to see them pull something like that off but if it happens it will have to be on the back of our starting pitching.  A split this weekend is a crushing blow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.
> 
> And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino.  Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.
> 
> We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.
> 
> Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best.  Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats.  Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.
> 
> It ain't over til it's OVER.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.
Click to expand...


I can't believe they made that into a national highlight.  Umps blow calls every day, so what?

The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other.  The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.

If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive.  You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.

They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.

But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker.  There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.


----------



## Article 15

maineman said:


> Red Sox take game one of the series against the yankees on the back of a great performance by Clay.... one step at a time.



Let's see if Kermit the Frog ... er .. I mean John Lackey can keep the momentum going.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, we just pulled our friggin bootstraps up and got our asses right back in the division race after being down 7 games and looking DISMAL.
> 
> And we're doing it without Howard, Utley, and Victorino.  Not to mention Polanco, Rollins, and Ruiz all at some point during the season.
> 
> We've only had our projected opening day lineup for like 11 games the entire season.
> 
> Major league players are in the majors because they're the best of the best.  Big names are SOMETIMES only good enough to fill seats.  Those guys who come in when the big names are out are just as capable of stepping up and pulling off wins with major league contributions.
> 
> It ain't over til it's OVER.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't believe they made that into a national highlight.  Umps blow calls every day, so what?
> 
> The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other.  The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.
> 
> If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive.  You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.
> 
> They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.
> 
> But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker.  There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.
Click to expand...


Of course you don't understand why it became a national lowlight. You're a Phillies Phan. It's to be expected. It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair. The umps defiance is the best. 

And oh yes! 1 game in a pennant race can make the difference, not to mention 2 blown calls that have given you guys wins that should have been losses. Every little bit counts.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are gonna always be in it if the umps keep blowing calls in your favor like they did last night and against the Giants at home plate. You SHOULD have some bad calls go your way for once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe they made that into a national highlight.  Umps blow calls every day, so what?
> 
> The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other.  The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.
> 
> If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive.  You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.
> 
> They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.
> 
> But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker.  There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course you don't understand why it became a national lowlight. You're a Phillies Phan. It's to be expected. It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair. The umps defiance is the best.
> 
> And oh yes! 1 game in a pennant race can make the difference, not to mention 2 blown calls that have given you guys wins that should have been losses. Every little bit counts.
Click to expand...


Fair or foul on a ground ball is judged based on what territory the ball was in as it passes the bag.

Where it ultimately lands is irrelevant, by virtue of that rule.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe they made that into a national highlight.  Umps blow calls every day, so what?
> 
> The thing is though, we were shown no replay angle that definitively proved it one way or the other.  The ball hits fair before going over the bag, and lands fair after it, so you would ASSUME that it stayed fair because it seems strange that it would curve around the bag foul and then come back fair again in that split second.
> 
> If that was the only angle that a potential replay review ump had in the event that they had that feature for that type of play, I would imagine they would come out saying it was inconclusive.  You need to physically see exactly where the ball was in relation to the line/bag.
> 
> They would need an overhead shot, or one that was right on the line rather than from the shortstop's perspective.
> 
> But really though dude, that was one game, and it's not like that was the deal breaker.  There was still more ball to be played, and it would have only given them a 1 run lead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you don't understand why it became a national lowlight. You're a Phillies Phan. It's to be expected. It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair. The umps defiance is the best.
> 
> And oh yes! 1 game in a pennant race can make the difference, not to mention 2 blown calls that have given you guys wins that should have been losses. Every little bit counts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair or foul on a ground ball is judged based on what territory the ball was in as it passes the bag.
> 
> Where it ultimately lands is irrelevant, by virtue of that rule.
Click to expand...


You sound like that ridiculous umpire! You know the guy that doesn't know the rule. Please quote the rule and let's examine it.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Flatly wrong.  Where the ball ends up with its first strike on the surface after passing either first or third base.  A ball can course through air in foul territory and if it lands in fair territory, then it is in play.  Look it up.


----------



## Paulie

You guys are both wrong.

A ground ball in this particular case, would denote the ball hitting the ground before passing first or third base.  The ball can literally bounce back and forth foul and fair a million times, but it's what territory the ball was in as it passed the base that matters.

Beyond the base means NOTHING.  The ball could bound directly over the bag and then slice foul landing over the line, and the only thing that mattered was that it passed the bag in fair territory.

You guys are arguing this situation on emotion rather than just reading the fucking rule.

I knew damn right well you'd come in here arguing about it without just reading it for yourself.

Baseball Rules Fair and Foul Balls



> INFIELD GROUND BALLS
> 
> Ground balls  that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. *The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.*
> 
> The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, *or goes past first or third base*.
> 
> THE ACTUAL RULE from the rule book
> 
> A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, *or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base*, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.
> 
> A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball. If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit.



The rule merely mentions the ball passing the base.  It says NOTHING about where the ball hits after it passes the base, only where it was as it passed it.

The only time it matters where the ball hits AFTER the base is on a fly ball, or line drive, or any batted ball that has not hit the ground before passing the bag.

The key part of the rule is the bag.


----------



## Paulie

JakeStarkey said:


> Flatly wrong.  Where the ball ends up with its first strike on the surface after passing either first or third base.  A ball can course through air in foul territory and if it lands in fair territory, then it is in play.  Look it up.



This is not the rule for a ground ball, that is how a fly ball is judged.  Two completely different rules.

Not for nothing, but I think the ump made a bad call.  I see the ball hit fair after the bag, and even though that is irrelevant based on the rule, it tells me that the ball must have been in fair territory as it passed third base, because it hit fair on its bounce before passing it as well.  So it must have been over the bag as it was in the air passing it.


----------



## Nosmo King

The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season.  I'm going to the Mets game Friday.  The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night.  I may be at the game that extends history!  No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season.  I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.

Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> You guys are both wrong.
> 
> A ground ball in this particular case, would denote the ball hitting the ground before passing first or third base.  The ball can literally bounce back and forth foul and fair a million times, but it's what territory the ball was in as it passed the base that matters.
> 
> Beyond the base means NOTHING.  The ball could bound directly over the bag and then slice foul landing over the line, and the only thing that mattered was that it passed the bag in fair territory.
> 
> You guys are arguing this situation on emotion rather than just reading the fucking rule.
> 
> I knew damn right well you'd come in here arguing about it without just reading it for yourself.
> 
> Baseball Rules Fair and Foul Balls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INFIELD GROUND BALLS
> 
> Ground balls  that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. *The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.*
> 
> The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, *or goes past first or third base*.
> 
> THE ACTUAL RULE from the rule book
> 
> A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, *or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base*, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.
> 
> A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball. If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rule merely mentions the ball passing the base.  It says NOTHING about where the ball hits after it passes the base, only where it was as it passed it.
> 
> The only time it matters where the ball hits AFTER the base is on a fly ball, or line drive, or any batted ball that has not hit the ground before passing the bag.
> 
> The key part of the rule is the bag.
Click to expand...


I think you're abusing the letter of the Law because you're a Phillies Phan. Everyone in the country knows it was a clearly blown call but you. What is clear here is that the letter of the law did not include a provision for balls that come back fair mid air like the one hit in this case. 

The rule makers had never seen a ball like this hit before which clearly deserves a fair call so they didn't make a provision for it. But common sense tells us all that it is a fair ball.

Anyway, the umps owe us two games against you guys in this series so let's get it on Paulie Phanatic.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Nosmo King said:


> The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season.  I'm going to the Mets game Friday.  The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night.  I may be at the game that extends history!  No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season.  I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.
> 
> Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?



I really have no answer for you, you poor poor Pirates fan. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us as to why your organization has been a model in futility for nearly 2 decades.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are both wrong.
> 
> A ground ball in this particular case, would denote the ball hitting the ground before passing first or third base.  The ball can literally bounce back and forth foul and fair a million times, but it's what territory the ball was in as it passed the base that matters.
> 
> Beyond the base means NOTHING.  The ball could bound directly over the bag and then slice foul landing over the line, and the only thing that mattered was that it passed the bag in fair territory.
> 
> You guys are arguing this situation on emotion rather than just reading the fucking rule.
> 
> I knew damn right well you'd come in here arguing about it without just reading it for yourself.
> 
> Baseball Rules Fair and Foul Balls
> 
> 
> 
> 
> INFIELD GROUND BALLS
> 
> Ground balls  that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. *The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.*
> 
> The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, *or goes past first or third base*.
> 
> THE ACTUAL RULE from the rule book
> 
> A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, *or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base*, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.
> 
> A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball. If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rule merely mentions the ball passing the base.  It says NOTHING about where the ball hits after it passes the base, only where it was as it passed it.
> 
> The only time it matters where the ball hits AFTER the base is on a fly ball, or line drive, or any batted ball that has not hit the ground before passing the bag.
> 
> The key part of the rule is the bag.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're abusing the letter of the Law because you're a Phillies Phan. Everyone in the country knows it was a clearly blown call but you. What is clear here is that the letter of the law did not include a provision for balls that come back fair mid air like the one hit in this case.
> 
> The rule makers had never seen a ball like this hit before which clearly deserves a fair call so they didn't make a provision for it. But common sense tells us all that it is a fair ball.
> 
> Anyway, the umps owe us two games against you guys in this series so let's get it on Paulie Phanatic.
Click to expand...


I said more than once here that he blew the call.

That doesn't change the fact that the rule for a ground ball is where the ball is in relation to the bag as it passes it.  Where it lands is irrelevant.

I give you the rule and you still deny it, because you 'lost 2 games' or whatever.  That's pretty stupid, my man.

Let me give you 2 illustrations showing you why you're wrong...







In this image, you can see that the batted ball bounces first in fair territory, goes past third base in fair territory, and then makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That ball is a FAIR BALL.  Where it landed made no difference, because it passed third base in FAIR TERRITORY.

Now let's look at the next image...






Here, the batted ball bounces first in fair territory as well, and proceeds past third base while in foul territory, and makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That is a FOUL BALL, because it passed third base in foul territory.

In neither of those scenarios did it matter that the ball landed in foul territory.

You don't seem to understand the rule.


----------



## Paulie

Now here's the scenario that happened in the Phils/Marlins game, according to what the ump claims he saw..






The ball bounced first in fair territory, and then wrapped its way around third base in foul territory, before making it's next bounce in fair territory again.

Assuming that was actually what the ball did, which I doubt it, that would be a FOUL BALL, because it passed third while in foul territory.  It doesn't matter in that case that it ended up bouncing again in fair territory, because the ruling was made as it passed the bag.

An ump doesn't need to look beyond the bag when ruling on a ground ball.  They NEVER have, so I'm not sure why you seem to think so now.


----------



## Nosmo King

Truthspeaker said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season.  I'm going to the Mets game Friday.  The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night.  I may be at the game that extends history!  No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season.  I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.
> 
> Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really have no answer for you, you poor poor Pirates fan. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us as to why your organization has been a model in futility for nearly 2 decades.
Click to expand...

Four words: free agency, stingy ownership.

Xavier Nady, Jason Bay, Nate McClouth.  All left in their option year.  The ownership built a beautiful ballpark here, arguably the prettiest park in the majors.  The ownership throws in all the bells and whistles (Pittsburghers LOVE fireworks) with give-a-ways and promotions.

They simply won't pay for talented ball players.

It all started in 1993 with the loss of Bobby Bonilla, Barry Bonds and Andy VanSlyke.  It's been a nightmare ever since.  Believe it or not, I have gone from vital young man to middle aged crank by simply following the demise of my Pittsburgh Pirates since the first year of the Clinton administration.


----------



## Paulie

Nosmo King said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season.  I'm going to the Mets game Friday.  The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night.  I may be at the game that extends history!  No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season.  I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.
> 
> Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really have no answer for you, you poor poor Pirates fan. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us as to why your organization has been a model in futility for nearly 2 decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Four words: free agency, stingy ownership.
> 
> Xavier Nady, Jason Bay, Nate McClouth.  All left in their option year.  The ownership built a beautiful ballpark here, arguably the prettiest park in the majors.  The ownership throws in all the bells and whistles (Pittsburghers LOVE fireworks) with give-a-ways and promotions.
> 
> They simply won't pay for talented ball players.
> 
> It all started in 1993 with the loss of Bobby Bonilla, Barry Bonds and Andy VanSlyke.  It's been a nightmare ever since.  Believe it or not, I have gone from vital young man to middle aged crank by simply following the demise of my Pittsburgh Pirates since the first year of the Clinton administration.
Click to expand...


Your salary base is right around what you receive in revenue sharing ALONE.

That's pathetic.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys are both wrong.
> 
> A ground ball in this particular case, would denote the ball hitting the ground before passing first or third base.  The ball can literally bounce back and forth foul and fair a million times, but it's what territory the ball was in as it passed the base that matters.
> 
> Beyond the base means NOTHING.  The ball could bound directly over the bag and then slice foul landing over the line, and the only thing that mattered was that it passed the bag in fair territory.
> 
> You guys are arguing this situation on emotion rather than just reading the fucking rule.
> 
> I knew damn right well you'd come in here arguing about it without just reading it for yourself.
> 
> Baseball Rules Fair and Foul Balls
> 
> 
> 
> The rule merely mentions the ball passing the base.  It says NOTHING about where the ball hits after it passes the base, only where it was as it passed it.
> 
> The only time it matters where the ball hits AFTER the base is on a fly ball, or line drive, or any batted ball that has not hit the ground before passing the bag.
> 
> The key part of the rule is the bag.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're abusing the letter of the Law because you're a Phillies Phan. Everyone in the country knows it was a clearly blown call but you. What is clear here is that the letter of the law did not include a provision for balls that come back fair mid air like the one hit in this case.
> 
> The rule makers had never seen a ball like this hit before which clearly deserves a fair call so they didn't make a provision for it. But common sense tells us all that it is a fair ball.
> 
> Anyway, the umps owe us two games against you guys in this series so let's get it on Paulie Phanatic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said more than once here that he blew the call.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that the rule for a ground ball is where the ball is in relation to the bag as it passes it.  Where it lands is irrelevant.
> 
> I give you the rule and you still deny it, because you 'lost 2 games' or whatever.  That's pretty stupid, my man.
> 
> Let me give you 2 illustrations showing you why you're wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this image, you can see that the batted ball bounces first in fair territory, goes past third base in fair territory, and then makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That ball is a FAIR BALL.  Where it landed made no difference, because it passed third base in FAIR TERRITORY.
> 
> Now let's look at the next image...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, the batted ball bounces first in fair territory as well, and proceeds past third base while in foul territory, and makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That is a FOUL BALL, because it passed third base in foul territory.
> 
> In neither of those scenarios did it matter that the ball landed in foul territory.
> 
> You don't seem to understand the rule.
Click to expand...


Dude, everyone understands the visuals and the rule you posted. I've known this rule since I was in little league. but you're next graphic shows a situation that hasn't happened before and therefore the rule book didn't cover it. So either you think he blew the call or he didn't. According to you, you say by rule the ball was foul.  Yet you contradict yourself saying the ump blew the call. Which side are you on?


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Now here's the scenario that happened in the Phils/Marlins game, according to what the ump claims he saw..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ball bounced first in fair territory, and then wrapped its way around third base in foul territory, before making it's next bounce in fair territory again.
> 
> Assuming that was actually what the ball did, which I doubt it, that would be a FOUL BALL, because it passed third while in foul territory.  It doesn't matter in that case that it ended up bouncing again in fair territory, because the ruling was made as it passed the bag.
> 
> An ump doesn't need to look beyond the bag when ruling on a ground ball.  They NEVER have, so I'm not sure why you seem to think so now.



I agree that the ball probably didn't take such a route but if it did, the rule needs to include a provision for this unnatural type of bounce and be amended immediately.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Nosmo King said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Pittsburgh Pirates are about to endure their 18th consecutive losing season.  I'm going to the Mets game Friday.  The Pirates have currently lost 79 games this season and won their 40th game last night.  I may be at the game that extends history!  No professional franchise has ever had 17 straight losing season.  I could be there when the Pirates lose their 81 game and extend that dubious record to 18 seasons.
> 
> Why, in such a great sports town like Pittsburgh, must we suffer with incompetent, stingy ownership?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really have no answer for you, you poor poor Pirates fan. Perhaps you could enlighten all of us as to why your organization has been a model in futility for nearly 2 decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Four words: free agency, stingy ownership.
> 
> Xavier Nady, Jason Bay, Nate McClouth.  All left in their option year.  The ownership built a beautiful ballpark here, arguably the prettiest park in the majors.  The ownership throws in all the bells and whistles (Pittsburghers LOVE fireworks) with give-a-ways and promotions.
> 
> They simply won't pay for talented ball players.
> 
> It all started in 1993 with the loss of Bobby Bonilla, Barry Bonds and Andy VanSlyke.  It's been a nightmare ever since.  Believe it or not, I have gone from vital young man to middle aged crank by simply following the demise of my Pittsburgh Pirates since the first year of the Clinton administration.
Click to expand...


Well that was more than 4 words but I get your point. Does management make excuses or cry poor?

It's true and it doesn't make much sense to me. Although I of course am partial to the most beautiful park ever built in San Francisco, I understand the PNC is as pretty and nice as they come. It's hitter friendly, not overly pitcher unfriendly and the skyline is awesome. The facility is top notch and the fan base is obviously in the top 3 in loyalty to keep coming out to view the inferior product. Pirate fans must be like Golden state Warrior fans, and battered women: No matter how hard  or how often you slap them around, they keep coming back for more because of their condition.

So I guess Pirates ownership is like Warriors ownership, pimps and abusive men.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're abusing the letter of the Law because you're a Phillies Phan. Everyone in the country knows it was a clearly blown call but you. What is clear here is that the letter of the law did not include a provision for balls that come back fair mid air like the one hit in this case.
> 
> The rule makers had never seen a ball like this hit before which clearly deserves a fair call so they didn't make a provision for it. But common sense tells us all that it is a fair ball.
> 
> Anyway, the umps owe us two games against you guys in this series so let's get it on Paulie Phanatic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said more than once here that he blew the call.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that the rule for a ground ball is where the ball is in relation to the bag as it passes it.  Where it lands is irrelevant.
> 
> I give you the rule and you still deny it, because you 'lost 2 games' or whatever.  That's pretty stupid, my man.
> 
> Let me give you 2 illustrations showing you why you're wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this image, you can see that the batted ball bounces first in fair territory, goes past third base in fair territory, and then makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That ball is a FAIR BALL.  Where it landed made no difference, because it passed third base in FAIR TERRITORY.
> 
> Now let's look at the next image...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, the batted ball bounces first in fair territory as well, and proceeds past third base while in foul territory, and makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That is a FOUL BALL, because it passed third base in foul territory.
> 
> In neither of those scenarios did it matter that the ball landed in foul territory.
> 
> You don't seem to understand the rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, everyone understands the visuals and the rule you posted. I've known this rule since I was in little league. but you're next graphic shows a situation that hasn't happened before and therefore the rule book didn't cover it. So either you think he blew the call or he didn't. According to you, you say by rule the ball was foul.  Yet you contradict yourself saying the ump blew the call. Which side are you on?
Click to expand...


Apparently you've lost a handle on the discussion here.

You originally started out by saying the ball was fair because it bounced in fair territory after passing the bag.  All I was saying was that is not how the ball is judged based on the rule.

The only angle we ever saw was one that doesn't show where the ball actually was in relation to the bag as it passed it.  All we can see is that it bounces fair before passing it, and bounces fair after passing it.  So one would conclude that it was fair because it seems impossible for it to have swerved around the bag foul, in that split second.

I'm only saying I think he blew it based on what seems most logical.  The fact is, I don't have definitive proof, and neither does anyone else unless they have a replay of it from above, or from right on the line in front of the ball's travel.

There doesn't need to be any special rule for this play.  It's so simple, and you're making it so complex for no reason.  The ump merely looks at the bag as the ball is passing it, and judges fair or foul based on where the ball is while it passes.  

That's it.  

Nothing brand new happened here at all.  It's just another close call out of the BILLIONS throughout baseball history.

The only thing it MIGHT make a case for, is reviews on those kinds of plays.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now here's the scenario that happened in the Phils/Marlins game, according to what the ump claims he saw..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ball bounced first in fair territory, and then wrapped its way around third base in foul territory, before making it's next bounce in fair territory again.
> 
> Assuming that was actually what the ball did, which I doubt it, that would be a FOUL BALL, because it passed third while in foul territory.  It doesn't matter in that case that it ended up bouncing again in fair territory, because the ruling was made as it passed the bag.
> 
> An ump doesn't need to look beyond the bag when ruling on a ground ball.  They NEVER have, so I'm not sure why you seem to think so now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that the ball probably didn't take such a route but if it did, the rule needs to include a provision for this unnatural type of bounce and be amended immediately.
Click to expand...


Why does there need to be a provision? 

I don't get it.

If the ball really did swerve around the bag foul in between two fair territory bounces, it doesn't change how the ball is judged based on the rule.

It would simply be ruled FOUL, because it passed the bag in foul territory.

Again, it doesn't matter where it lands after the bag.  That's what you don't seem to be getting.


----------



## Modbert

Is that play still seriously being debated?


----------



## Paulie

I'm not debating the play.  I'm trying to make him understand how a ground ball is judged, and why the ump called it the way he did.

The ump says he saw the ball in foul territory while it passed the bag.  That's the reason he ruled it foul, and that's the proper way to judge the ball whether he was right about where the ball was or not.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said more than once here that he blew the call.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that the rule for a ground ball is where the ball is in relation to the bag as it passes it.  Where it lands is irrelevant.
> 
> I give you the rule and you still deny it, because you 'lost 2 games' or whatever.  That's pretty stupid, my man.
> 
> Let me give you 2 illustrations showing you why you're wrong...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this image, you can see that the batted ball bounces first in fair territory, goes past third base in fair territory, and then makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That ball is a FAIR BALL.  Where it landed made no difference, because it passed third base in FAIR TERRITORY.
> 
> Now let's look at the next image...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here, the batted ball bounces first in fair territory as well, and proceeds past third base while in foul territory, and makes its next bounce in foul territory.  That is a FOUL BALL, because it passed third base in foul territory.
> 
> In neither of those scenarios did it matter that the ball landed in foul territory.
> 
> You don't seem to understand the rule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, everyone understands the visuals and the rule you posted. I've known this rule since I was in little league. but you're next graphic shows a situation that hasn't happened before and therefore the rule book didn't cover it. So either you think he blew the call or he didn't. According to you, you say by rule the ball was foul.  Yet you contradict yourself saying the ump blew the call. Which side are you on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you've lost a handle on the discussion here.
> 
> You originally started out by saying the ball was fair because it bounced in fair territory after passing the bag.  All I was saying was that is not how the ball is judged based on the rule.
> 
> The only angle we ever saw was one that doesn't show where the ball actually was in relation to the bag as it passed it.  All we can see is that it bounces fair before passing it, and bounces fair after passing it.  So one would conclude that it was fair because it seems impossible for it to have swerved around the bag foul, in that split second.
> 
> I'm only saying I think he blew it based on what seems most logical.  The fact is, I don't have definitive proof, and neither does anyone else unless they have a replay of it from above, or from right on the line in front of the ball's travel.
> 
> There doesn't need to be any special rule for this play.  It's so simple, and you're making it so complex for no reason.  The ump merely looks at the bag as the ball is passing it, and judges fair or foul based on where the ball is while it passes.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> Nothing brand new happened here at all.  It's just another close call out of the BILLIONS throughout baseball history.
> 
> The only thing it MIGHT make a case for, is reviews on those kinds of plays.
Click to expand...


obviously we need replay in baseball. Getting it right is more important than "Tradition". The ump is lying if he says the ball passed over 3rd base foul. But what makes sense logically is that you could say if the ball bounces fair and lands fair it must be fair. The ump has no way out. He's probably got philles underwear on.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now here's the scenario that happened in the Phils/Marlins game, according to what the ump claims he saw..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ball bounced first in fair territory, and then wrapped its way around third base in foul territory, before making it's next bounce in fair territory again.
> 
> Assuming that was actually what the ball did, which I doubt it, that would be a FOUL BALL, because it passed third while in foul territory.  It doesn't matter in that case that it ended up bouncing again in fair territory, because the ruling was made as it passed the bag.
> 
> An ump doesn't need to look beyond the bag when ruling on a ground ball.  They NEVER have, so I'm not sure why you seem to think so now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that the ball probably didn't take such a route but if it did, the rule needs to include a provision for this unnatural type of bounce and be amended immediately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why does there need to be a provision?
> 
> I don't get it.
> 
> If the ball really did swerve around the bag foul in between two fair territory bounces, it doesn't change how the ball is judged based on the rule.
> 
> It would simply be ruled FOUL, because it passed the bag in foul territory.
> 
> Again, it doesn't matter where it lands after the bag.  That's what you don't seem to be getting.
Click to expand...


Well it should matter first of all, second of all if a ball starts and finishes fair, it's a slippery slope for an umpire to go down if he's bold enough to claim it went foul in the air. 
That's why the provision must be made to make it clear cut.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> I'm not debating the play.  I'm trying to make him understand how a ground ball is judged, and why the ump called it the way he did.
> 
> The ump says he saw the ball in foul territory while it passed the bag.  That's the reason he ruled it foul, and that's the proper way to judge the ball whether he was right about where the ball was or not.



Dude, I know how to judge a ball. I know the rule regarding it. What I'm now saying is that if a ball starts and stops fair it should overrule the over-the-bag provision.
 I also believe the umpire was lying and that was the only way he could try to justify his call. Rather than admit his mistake he'd rather lie about it.

Let's also not rule out corruption among umpires. If it has happened in professional sports nothing makes umpires immune to corruption as well.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, everyone understands the visuals and the rule you posted. I've known this rule since I was in little league. but you're next graphic shows a situation that hasn't happened before and therefore the rule book didn't cover it. So either you think he blew the call or he didn't. According to you, you say by rule the ball was foul.  Yet you contradict yourself saying the ump blew the call. Which side are you on?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently you've lost a handle on the discussion here.
> 
> You originally started out by saying the ball was fair because it bounced in fair territory after passing the bag.  All I was saying was that is not how the ball is judged based on the rule.
> 
> The only angle we ever saw was one that doesn't show where the ball actually was in relation to the bag as it passed it.  All we can see is that it bounces fair before passing it, and bounces fair after passing it.  So one would conclude that it was fair because it seems impossible for it to have swerved around the bag foul, in that split second.
> 
> I'm only saying I think he blew it based on what seems most logical.  The fact is, I don't have definitive proof, and neither does anyone else unless they have a replay of it from above, or from right on the line in front of the ball's travel.
> 
> There doesn't need to be any special rule for this play.  It's so simple, and you're making it so complex for no reason.  The ump merely looks at the bag as the ball is passing it, and judges fair or foul based on where the ball is while it passes.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> Nothing brand new happened here at all.  It's just another close call out of the BILLIONS throughout baseball history.
> 
> The only thing it MIGHT make a case for, is reviews on those kinds of plays.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> obviously we need replay in baseball. Getting it right is more important than "Tradition". The ump is lying if he says the ball passed over 3rd base foul. But what makes sense logically is that you could say if the ball bounces fair and lands fair it must be fair. The ump has no way out. He's probably got philles underwear on.
Click to expand...


He's not lying, he blew the call and is covering his ass.  Big deal.

How can you expect an ump to judge based on where the ball lands after the bag?  That's not the RULE!!  No one's talking about "tradition", dude.  It's simply THE RULE.

Why don't you get that?  In that case, you would expect the ump to watch where the ball is at the bag, and also where it lands?  On a play like that where the ball is bounding so fast and frequently, it's impossible to catch both of those and be able to get it right.

So yes, replay would be a good option.  I'd be in favor of it but there would have to be limitations.  I don't care so much about the time issue as much as I do about the human element being removed from the equation.

If instant replay is so perfect a solution, let's just get rid of 3 of the 4 umpires and only have one umpire who judges trivial things like balks, runners out of base paths, interference, etc.?

We can just computerize the balls and strikes process, and judging close call plays.

I like the human element, personally.  I'm ok with plays being blown occasionally.  It's not like I haven't been a part of just as many that went against my team.

Earlier in the year MLB did a study over a 2 week span, and they concluded that calls were made properly almost 70% of the time, with the other 30% split between the wrong call, and inconclusive evidence.

70% right vs. 15% wrong isn't bad.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Dude, I know how to judge a ball. I know the rule regarding it.



You only know it now because I showed it to you.

The other day, you didn't have a clue:



Truthspeaker said:


> It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair.



Those were your words.

Anyway, our 3 game set against you guys starts right now.

I'm out.  Good luck


----------



## Truthspeaker

[


> He's not lying, he blew the call and is covering his ass.  Big deal.


If he's "covering his ass" then he's lying.



> How can you expect an ump to judge based on where the ball lands after the bag?  That's not the RULE!!  No one's talking about "tradition", dude.  It's simply THE RULE.


I already said I know the rule. But in this case the rule is wrong. It needs to be amended. Rules need to be made as time goes on and new situations arise.




> Why don't you get that?


I do. and only too well since my team is on the butt end and yours is on the winning end.



> In that case, you would expect the ump to watch where the ball is at the bag, and also where it lands?


Oh so difficult. How dare we ask professionals to do their job? How can we expect them to keep an eye on the ball? Outrageous, walking AND chewing gum? Forget it.



> On a play like that where the ball is bounding so fast and frequently, it's impossible to catch both of those and be able to get it right.


Dude it's not that hard. It ain't rocket science. Plus they already have a home plate umpire who can judge fair past the bag as well as the 3rd base dude. The 3rd base guy is only necessary for the "over the bag" plays. Plus they can confer together.



> So yes, replay would be a good option.  I'd be in favor of it but there would have to be limitations.


I agree with limitations.



> I don't care so much about the time issue as much as I do about the human element being removed from the equation.


Screw the "human element." Let's get it right. I don't even know what people mean by "human element." I think people are afraid of umpires losing their jobs or not hearing the umpire yell his unique version of strike three. That's never going to be lost no matter how computerized the game gets. It's really not an issue. We could over computerize it and _still_ need all 4 umps. They're still going to make all the calls but would just be corrected by replay or instant notification. The human element is always going to be there because it will always be played by humans. I don't hear people complaining about how bad tennis, cricket, or other sports suck now that the calls are made right by computers. It's not like we're replacing the players with robots. 

But my limitations would include for now: 
1. Umpire calls all balls and strikes.(I'm fine with this for now, but as a hitter, I know the strike zone and usually the errors an umpire makes only benefit the pitcher. If I knew the strikezone was computerized, I'd have taken a lot more ball fours in high school and college and you'd see a heck of a lot more in the bigs. You'd see averages go up and find out who the truly great pitchers are and which guys truly have a good eye. As it is the strikezone is completely different each game, so I'd be open to computerized strikezones. they'd have to be custom made for each player before the season starts because not all guys are the same height.But not ready to open that can of worms.)
2. Replay on Homeruns
3. Replay on fair foul balls that get challenged.(Here is an opportunity for an umpire to be an umpire and make a judgment call on who should have scored and which bases runners should be on. You see we still need umps.)





> If instant replay is so perfect a solution, let's just get rid of 3 of the 4 umpires and only have one umpire who judges trivial things like balks, runners out of base paths, interference, etc.?


You'd still need all four umpires forever because the replay would only be needed when calls get questioned. I think a rule should be implemented where each manager gets a red ball to throw on the field to challenge a call. If he loses his challenge, he loses the right to challenge for the rest of the game. If he wins his challenge he can keep challenging. This seems like a perfect solution to me. That way we don't challenge every play.



> We can just computerize the balls and strikes process, and judging close call plays.


We could but I don't think we need to. Just have the umps watch the play closer on replay and be an ump from there.



> I like the human element, personally.  I'm ok with plays being blown occasionally.  It's not like I haven't been a part of just as many that went against my team.


I like the human element but I don't like errors in judgment. The human element is the voice of the players and officials and the smell of the grass and hotdogs. the human element is the crack of the bat and the cheering of the crowd. All those will stay but mistakes will be drastically lessened. We'd never acheive perfection but near perfection is way better than what we have.

I'm NOT ok with blown calls. The injustice of your team losing is just wrong. And if you win because of a bad call, it's like kissing your sister, yeah you wanna kiss the girl but not if it's your sister. I HONESTLY truly would rather lose if I deserve to lose rather than win because of a blown call. Screw that, let's have the truth. Give Armando Gallarraga the Perfecto and be done with it.




> Earlier in the year MLB did a study over a 2 week span, and they concluded that calls were made properly almost 70% of the time, with the other 30% split between the wrong call, and inconclusive evidence.


That is a horrendous percentage  omg is it THAT bad? You do know how bad that is right?


> 70% right vs. 15% wrong isn't bad.


If you're a hitter there's nothing better but as an umpire, you need to be fired. I simply don't believe it's that bad. I think umps are way better than that as a whole.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I know how to judge a ball. I know the rule regarding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You only know it now because I showed it to you.
> 
> The other day, you didn't have a clue:
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those were your words.
> 
> Anyway, our 3 game set against you guys starts right now.
> 
> I'm out.  Good luck
Click to expand...


I think I'm right too. Because I think it's impossible for a ball to curve from fair to foul to fair after hitting fair in the first place.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I know how to judge a ball. I know the rule regarding it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You only know it now because I showed it to you.
> 
> The other day, you didn't have a clue:
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if it curves mid air and does whatever. If it both starts and ends fair it doesn't matter, it's fair.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those were your words.
> 
> Anyway, our 3 game set against you guys starts right now.
> 
> I'm out.  Good luck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think I'm right too. Because I think it's impossible for a ball to curve from fair to foul to fair after hitting fair in the first place.
Click to expand...

Assuming that it is physically impossible for the ball to do that, then the ump blew the call and it was a fair ball.

Assuming that is IS physically possible, then there doesn't need to be any "provision" in the rule.  The rule clearly states that the ball would be considered foul, simply because it passed third base in foul territory.

You still don't seem to be getting that part.  You're making no sense when you keep saying the rule needs to be amended. 

It doesn't matter how whacky of a movement the ball potentially takes, the ruling is simple:  Ball is in fair territory while passing bag: FAIR ... Ball is in foul territory while passing bag: FOUL.  It's friggin black and white, dude.  

I see you SAYING you understand the rule, but calling for rule provisions because of this type of play tells me that you don't.  

The only thing I can take from this is that you think they need to make a provision where if a ground ball swerves around the bag through foul territory but bounced fair before and after it, that it should be considered fair.

I can't agree with that if that's what you're saying, and it's really a ridiculous request on your part because it clearly skirts the rule.  You're talking about a round ball that has laces on it, and is spinning wildly...it's going to occasionally do some crazy things when it's in motion.  That's part of the game.  It's ridiculous to go amending the rule to accomodate all the different crazy things the ball might do while in motion. The only thing that should matter is what territory the ball is in. 

You're only saying this crap because you feel robbed of a game and want a special rule that would have potentially had you tied with us in the WC race at the moment instead of down a game


----------



## Jeremy

Man that Twins / Sox game was freakin sweet last night.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You only know it now because I showed it to you.
> 
> The other day, you didn't have a clue:
> 
> 
> 
> Those were your words.
> 
> Anyway, our 3 game set against you guys starts right now.
> 
> I'm out.  Good luck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm right too. Because I think it's impossible for a ball to curve from fair to foul to fair after hitting fair in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Assuming that it is physically impossible for the ball to do that, then the ump blew the call and it was a fair ball.
> 
> Assuming that is IS physically possible, then there doesn't need to be any "provision" in the rule.  The rule clearly states that the ball would be considered foul, simply because it passed third base in foul territory.
> 
> You still don't seem to be getting that part.  You're making no sense when you keep saying the rule needs to be amended.
> 
> It doesn't matter how whacky of a movement the ball potentially takes, the ruling is simple:  Ball is in fair territory while passing bag: FAIR ... Ball is in foul territory while passing bag: FOUL.  It's friggin black and white, dude.
> 
> I see you SAYING you understand the rule, but calling for rule provisions because of this type of play tells me that you don't.
> 
> The only thing I can take from this is that you think they need to make a provision where if a ground ball swerves around the bag through foul territory but bounced fair before and after it, that it should be considered fair.
> 
> I can't agree with that if that's what you're saying, and it's really a ridiculous request on your part because it clearly skirts the rule.  You're talking about a round ball that has laces on it, and is spinning wildly...it's going to occasionally do some crazy things when it's in motion.  That's part of the game.  It's ridiculous to go amending the rule to accomodate all the different crazy things the ball might do while in motion. The only thing that should matter is what territory the ball is in.
> 
> You're only saying this crap because you feel robbed of a game and want a special rule that would have potentially had you tied with us in the WC race at the moment instead of down a game
Click to expand...


I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that if a ball starts and finishes fair it should be fair. So a provision makes sense. Not to you because you're the beneficiary. You'll find that if I were in your shoes I'd be agreeing with someone like me. I believe in getting the call right. You believe in allowing bad calls. I think my rep is better than yours based on that alone. 
I do understand the 3rd base rule. But it should be amended to give a guy a hit when he deserves one.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Jeremy said:


> Man that Twins / Sox game was freakin sweet last night.



Yeah especially since Delmon Young is in my fantasy outfield. He was a huge boost to my fantasy win yesterday.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm right too. Because I think it's impossible for a ball to curve from fair to foul to fair after hitting fair in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming that it is physically impossible for the ball to do that, then the ump blew the call and it was a fair ball.
> 
> Assuming that is IS physically possible, then there doesn't need to be any "provision" in the rule.  The rule clearly states that the ball would be considered foul, simply because it passed third base in foul territory.
> 
> You still don't seem to be getting that part.  You're making no sense when you keep saying the rule needs to be amended.
> 
> It doesn't matter how whacky of a movement the ball potentially takes, the ruling is simple:  Ball is in fair territory while passing bag: FAIR ... Ball is in foul territory while passing bag: FOUL.  It's friggin black and white, dude.
> 
> I see you SAYING you understand the rule, but calling for rule provisions because of this type of play tells me that you don't.
> 
> The only thing I can take from this is that you think they need to make a provision where if a ground ball swerves around the bag through foul territory but bounced fair before and after it, that it should be considered fair.
> 
> I can't agree with that if that's what you're saying, and it's really a ridiculous request on your part because it clearly skirts the rule.  You're talking about a round ball that has laces on it, and is spinning wildly...it's going to occasionally do some crazy things when it's in motion.  That's part of the game.  It's ridiculous to go amending the rule to accomodate all the different crazy things the ball might do while in motion. The only thing that should matter is what territory the ball is in.
> 
> You're only saying this crap because you feel robbed of a game and want a special rule that would have potentially had you tied with us in the WC race at the moment instead of down a game
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that if a ball starts and finishes fair it should be fair. So a provision makes sense. Not to you because you're the beneficiary. You'll find that if I were in your shoes I'd be agreeing with someone like me. I believe in getting the call right. You believe in allowing bad calls. I think my rep is better than yours based on that alone.
> I do understand the 3rd base rule. But it should be amended to give a guy a hit when he deserves one.
Click to expand...


So you think if a ground ball manages to swerve around a bag foul during a bounce, it should be actually be ruled fair, simply because it started and ended the bounce in fair territory?

You're going to have to enlighten me on why the rule should be completely skirted just because the ball happened to do something strange while in motion.


----------



## Oddball

Jeremy said:


> Man that Twins / Sox game was freakin sweet last night.



I may watch this video for the rest of the season:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Clutch: Thome blasts first walk-off at Target - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia


----------



## Article 15

Last night's game was just ... just ...


----------



## Nosmo King

*18 YEARS!*


*18 YEARS!*


*18 YEARS!*


*18 YEARS!*

That's how long since the Pittsburgh Pirates fielded a team capable of NOT losing at least 82 games a season!  I was there to witness history last night.  The Mets had four count 'em, four consecutive two out base hits in the top of the first.

And yet, paid attendance?  23,487.


----------



## Missourian

We're getting Braves/Cubs here...Chicago is lookin' good.

5-0 Cubs, mid 4th.


----------



## 2Parties

NLCS: Padres vs Reds
ALCS: Twins vs Rangers
World Series: Padres vs Rangers
Champions: San Diego Padres


----------



## Paulie

2Parties said:


> NLCS: Padres vs Reds
> ALCS: Twins vs Rangers
> World Series: Padres vs Rangers
> Champions: San Diego Padres



You must be a Padres fan because only a padres fan would think this.

They don't match up against this now healthy Phillies team.  The only 2 teams besides the phils that have a decent shot at getting somewhere in the NL are St Louis and SF, and that's because they have the rotations to win playoff series'.

It's all about the pitching come playoff time, and SD's rotation is a bunch of 'who the fuck is that!?!" with zero experience and there's no reason to automatically assume they can handle the playoff pressure.

Let me see here...

Latos/Garland or Wainright/Carpenter...

Latos/Garland or Halladay/Oswalt...


----------



## 2Parties

That's just what I want to see based on teams that will realistically be in the playoffs.  It will probably be Yankees and Phillies...


----------



## Paulie

2Parties said:


> That's just what I want to see based on teams that will realistically be in the playoffs.  It will probably be Yankees and Phillies...



I hope you're right about Texas though.  I'd love to see Hamilton win a WS as long as it's not against my phils.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming that it is physically impossible for the ball to do that, then the ump blew the call and it was a fair ball.
> 
> Assuming that is IS physically possible, then there doesn't need to be any "provision" in the rule.  The rule clearly states that the ball would be considered foul, simply because it passed third base in foul territory.
> 
> You still don't seem to be getting that part.  You're making no sense when you keep saying the rule needs to be amended.
> 
> It doesn't matter how whacky of a movement the ball potentially takes, the ruling is simple:  Ball is in fair territory while passing bag: FAIR ... Ball is in foul territory while passing bag: FOUL.  It's friggin black and white, dude.
> 
> I see you SAYING you understand the rule, but calling for rule provisions because of this type of play tells me that you don't.
> 
> The only thing I can take from this is that you think they need to make a provision where if a ground ball swerves around the bag through foul territory but bounced fair before and after it, that it should be considered fair.
> 
> I can't agree with that if that's what you're saying, and it's really a ridiculous request on your part because it clearly skirts the rule.  You're talking about a round ball that has laces on it, and is spinning wildly...it's going to occasionally do some crazy things when it's in motion.  That's part of the game.  It's ridiculous to go amending the rule to accomodate all the different crazy things the ball might do while in motion. The only thing that should matter is what territory the ball is in.
> 
> You're only saying this crap because you feel robbed of a game and want a special rule that would have potentially had you tied with us in the WC race at the moment instead of down a game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that if a ball starts and finishes fair it should be fair. So a provision makes sense. Not to you because you're the beneficiary. You'll find that if I were in your shoes I'd be agreeing with someone like me. I believe in getting the call right. You believe in allowing bad calls. I think my rep is better than yours based on that alone.
> I do understand the 3rd base rule. But it should be amended to give a guy a hit when he deserves one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think if a ground ball manages to swerve around a bag foul during a bounce, it should be actually be ruled fair, simply because it started and ended the bounce in fair territory?
> 
> You're going to have to enlighten me on why the rule should be completely skirted just because the ball happened to do something strange while in motion.
Click to expand...


It's the same principal that goes into the ruling of a fly ball that starts foul and remains foul past third base but curves back and lands fair. Nobody seems to have a problem with that one. That's been done many times before. Why should it be different?


----------



## Truthspeaker

2Parties said:


> That's just what I want to see based on teams that will realistically be in the playoffs.  It will probably be Yankees and Phillies...



Los Padres will get zero respect until they stick it through October. They're still the Padres and that's a heavy burden.

That being said, they're freakin annoyingly good this year.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say that if a ball starts and finishes fair it should be fair. So a provision makes sense. Not to you because you're the beneficiary. You'll find that if I were in your shoes I'd be agreeing with someone like me. I believe in getting the call right. You believe in allowing bad calls. I think my rep is better than yours based on that alone.
> I do understand the 3rd base rule. But it should be amended to give a guy a hit when he deserves one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you think if a ground ball manages to swerve around a bag foul during a bounce, it should be actually be ruled fair, simply because it started and ended the bounce in fair territory?
> 
> You're going to have to enlighten me on why the rule should be completely skirted just because the ball happened to do something strange while in motion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the same principal that goes into the ruling of a fly ball that starts foul and remains foul past third base but curves back and lands fair. Nobody seems to have a problem with that one. That's been done many times before. Why should it be different?
Click to expand...


Because the rules for each type of batted ball are different.  With a fly ball it's ruled based on where it lands, with a ground ball it's ruled based on where it is in relation to the bag.  That's just the way it is.  You only think it needs to be changed because it has now had a personal impact on your team's position in the race.

The ground ball can swerve in and out of foul territory a million times before it passes the bag. It isn't ruled until it either stops, passes the bag, or touches a player.  The friggin rule has to stop somewhere otherwise theoretically the ball can just move forever and never be ruled upon.

That's the main reason for the bag being used.  It gives the ball a point at which an official ruling can now be made.  If the bag wasn't used, then in your scenario that ball could just keep bouncing past the bag in and out of foul territory all the way to the wall.  Is that where the ruling should be made?  Where it last touched before it hits the wall?  I mean come on dude, be reasonable here.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> 2Parties said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's just what I want to see based on teams that will realistically be in the playoffs.  It will probably be Yankees and Phillies...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're right about Texas though.  I'd love to see Hamilton win a WS as long as it's not against my phils.
Click to expand...


Dam Phillies! Dam Cardinals! Dam Giants!!!!!!!
Giants suddenly can't pitch. Great.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you think if a ground ball manages to swerve around a bag foul during a bounce, it should be actually be ruled fair, simply because it started and ended the bounce in fair territory?
> 
> You're going to have to enlighten me on why the rule should be completely skirted just because the ball happened to do something strange while in motion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same principal that goes into the ruling of a fly ball that starts foul and remains foul past third base but curves back and lands fair. Nobody seems to have a problem with that one. That's been done many times before. Why should it be different?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because the rules for each type of batted ball are different.  With a fly ball it's ruled based on where it lands, with a ground ball it's ruled based on where it is in relation to the bag.  That's just the way it is.  You only think it needs to be changed because it has now had a personal impact on your team's position in the race.
> 
> The ground ball can swerve in and out of foul territory a million times before it passes the bag. It isn't ruled until it either stops, passes the bag, or touches a player.  The friggin rule has to stop somewhere otherwise theoretically the ball can just move forever and never be ruled upon.
> 
> That's the main reason for the bag being used.  It gives the ball a point at which an official ruling can now be made.
Click to expand...


If they're gonna use the bag that way they should have an electronic call on that because it's beyond the umpire's capability to accurately call that from the side. Either way I don't see why such a ball should be punished for it's weird spin. It's pretty easy to say that if a ball both starts and finishes fair and NEVER bounces foul(to hell with 3rd base) it should be fair. I don't care if my team loses because of it. I would rather have the honest victor. I prefer to say "they won because they performed better." Not "they won because the call was blown and they were gifted the game."


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same principal that goes into the ruling of a fly ball that starts foul and remains foul past third base but curves back and lands fair. Nobody seems to have a problem with that one. That's been done many times before. Why should it be different?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the rules for each type of batted ball are different.  With a fly ball it's ruled based on where it lands, with a ground ball it's ruled based on where it is in relation to the bag.  That's just the way it is.  You only think it needs to be changed because it has now had a personal impact on your team's position in the race.
> 
> The ground ball can swerve in and out of foul territory a million times before it passes the bag. It isn't ruled until it either stops, passes the bag, or touches a player.  The friggin rule has to stop somewhere otherwise theoretically the ball can just move forever and never be ruled upon.
> 
> That's the main reason for the bag being used.  It gives the ball a point at which an official ruling can now be made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they're gonna use the bag that way they should have an electronic call on that because it's beyond the umpire's capability to accurately call that from the side. Either way I don't see why such a ball should be punished for it's weird spin. It's pretty easy to say that if a ball both starts and finishes fair and NEVER bounces foul(to hell with 3rd base) it should be fair. I don't care if my team loses because of it. I would rather have the honest victor. I prefer to say "they won because they performed better." Not "they won because the call was blown and they were gifted the game."
Click to expand...


Have you seen a replay angle that proves that the ball didn't swerve foul between those 2 bounces?  Because I haven't.

I understand that it seems unlikely, but if it DID happen, the rule is clear.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the rules for each type of batted ball are different.  With a fly ball it's ruled based on where it lands, with a ground ball it's ruled based on where it is in relation to the bag.  That's just the way it is.  You only think it needs to be changed because it has now had a personal impact on your team's position in the race.
> 
> The ground ball can swerve in and out of foul territory a million times before it passes the bag. It isn't ruled until it either stops, passes the bag, or touches a player.  The friggin rule has to stop somewhere otherwise theoretically the ball can just move forever and never be ruled upon.
> 
> That's the main reason for the bag being used.  It gives the ball a point at which an official ruling can now be made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they're gonna use the bag that way they should have an electronic call on that because it's beyond the umpire's capability to accurately call that from the side. Either way I don't see why such a ball should be punished for it's weird spin. It's pretty easy to say that if a ball both starts and finishes fair and NEVER bounces foul(to hell with 3rd base) it should be fair. I don't care if my team loses because of it. I would rather have the honest victor. I prefer to say "they won because they performed better." Not "they won because the call was blown and they were gifted the game."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you seen a replay angle that proves that the ball didn't swerve foul between those 2 bounces?  Because I haven't.
> 
> I understand that it seems unlikely, but if it DID happen, the rule is clear.
Click to expand...


another reason for replay to be instituted.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they're gonna use the bag that way they should have an electronic call on that because it's beyond the umpire's capability to accurately call that from the side. Either way I don't see why such a ball should be punished for it's weird spin. It's pretty easy to say that if a ball both starts and finishes fair and NEVER bounces foul(to hell with 3rd base) it should be fair. I don't care if my team loses because of it. I would rather have the honest victor. I prefer to say "they won because they performed better." Not "they won because the call was blown and they were gifted the game."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen a replay angle that proves that the ball didn't swerve foul between those 2 bounces?  Because I haven't.
> 
> I understand that it seems unlikely, but if it DID happen, the rule is clear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> another reason for replay to be instituted.
Click to expand...


I'm ok with it.  I think it works well in football.

The irony of this whole argument between us though, is that if there's replay reviews, then there's no need to 'amend' the ground ball rule.  If the replay happened to show the ball in fact swerving around the bag foul there, then the rule is the rule and the ball would be foul.

Do you agree?


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen a replay angle that proves that the ball didn't swerve foul between those 2 bounces?  Because I haven't.
> 
> I understand that it seems unlikely, but if it DID happen, the rule is clear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> another reason for replay to be instituted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm ok with it.  I think it works well in football.
> 
> The irony of this whole argument between us though, is that if there's replay reviews, then there's no need to 'amend' the ground ball rule.  If the replay happened to show the ball in fact swerving around the bag foul there, then the rule is the rule and the ball would be foul.
> 
> Do you agree?
Click to expand...


No, In that case I think the rule should be changed with regards to balls that bounce fair and land fair. That way an ump who blows a call can't fall back on that lame excuse and claim a ball did something which is virtually impossble.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> another reason for replay to be instituted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm ok with it.  I think it works well in football.
> 
> The irony of this whole argument between us though, is that if there's replay reviews, then there's no need to 'amend' the ground ball rule.  If the replay happened to show the ball in fact swerving around the bag foul there, then the rule is the rule and the ball would be foul.
> 
> Do you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, In that case I think the rule should be changed with regards to balls that bounce fair and land fair. That way an ump who blows a call can't fall back on that lame excuse and claim a ball did something which is virtually impossble.
Click to expand...


Yeah but I'm assuming it did happen just for the sake of argument, and that the replay review showed conclusive evidence.

You gotta understand, the ball isn't always going to make an expected movement.  It's got laces that catch wind resistance, it might hit a lump on the ground, what have you.  It's part of the game.  I don't see why a rule needs to be amended over an extremely rare act of god.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm ok with it.  I think it works well in football.
> 
> The irony of this whole argument between us though, is that if there's replay reviews, then there's no need to 'amend' the ground ball rule.  If the replay happened to show the ball in fact swerving around the bag foul there, then the rule is the rule and the ball would be foul.
> 
> Do you agree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, In that case I think the rule should be changed with regards to balls that bounce fair and land fair. That way an ump who blows a call can't fall back on that lame excuse and claim a ball did something which is virtually impossble.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah but I'm assuming it did happen just for the sake of argument, and that the replay review showed conclusive evidence.
> 
> You gotta understand, the ball isn't always going to make an expected movement.  It's got laces that catch wind resistance, it might hit a lump on the ground, what have you.  It's part of the game.  I don't see why a rule needs to be amended over an extremely rare act of god.
Click to expand...


so that truth prevails!


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, In that case I think the rule should be changed with regards to balls that bounce fair and land fair. That way an ump who blows a call can't fall back on that lame excuse and claim a ball did something which is virtually impossble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but I'm assuming it did happen just for the sake of argument, and that the replay review showed conclusive evidence.
> 
> You gotta understand, the ball isn't always going to make an expected movement.  It's got laces that catch wind resistance, it might hit a lump on the ground, what have you.  It's part of the game.  I don't see why a rule needs to be amended over an extremely rare act of god.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so that truth prevails!
Click to expand...

If the truth is that the ball did in fact swerve around the bag foul, and replay showed this, then you're still not explaining why the rule needs to change.

The ball is judged where it was at the bag.  It's so damn _simple_, dude!


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but I'm assuming it did happen just for the sake of argument, and that the replay review showed conclusive evidence.
> 
> You gotta understand, the ball isn't always going to make an expected movement.  It's got laces that catch wind resistance, it might hit a lump on the ground, what have you.  It's part of the game.  I don't see why a rule needs to be amended over an extremely rare act of god.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so that truth prevails!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the truth is that the ball did in fact swerve around the bag foul, and replay showed this, then you're still not explaining why the rule needs to change.
> 
> The ball is judged where it was at the bag.  It's so damn _simple_, dude!
Click to expand...


Jeez. I get it. I've gotten it for 25 years!

I know what the rule IS. I'm stating that it should change. Baseball has changed rules many times before. In this case the ball SHOULD be fair if it bounces fair and lands fair. Not too difficult to understand WHY I think so.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> so that truth prevails!
> 
> 
> 
> If the truth is that the ball did in fact swerve around the bag foul, and replay showed this, then you're still not explaining why the rule needs to change.
> 
> The ball is judged where it was at the bag.  It's so damn _simple_, dude!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jeez. I get it. I've gotten it for 25 years!
> 
> I know what the rule IS. I'm stating that it should change. Baseball has changed rules many times before. In this case the ball SHOULD be fair if it bounces fair and lands fair. Not too difficult to understand WHY I think so.
Click to expand...

Because it can bounce fair and foul a million times until it passes the bag.

At some point you have to cut it off and make the call, and the bag happens to be where the call is made.

There's been many rule changes or amendments that I understood and agreed with, but yours I do not.

I like that intangibles like acts of god can affect the outcome of the game.  If we just make tiny little rules to remedy all those situations it ruins it.

Let the ball do what it will, and judge based on the rule that exists.  It's simple.  Sometimes a bounce goes your way, sometimes it doesn't.  That's just sports _IN GENERAL_.


----------



## Paulie

Alright dude, I'd say you were vindicated now after last night's terrible call against the Phils in the 8th.

Howard goes to make a tag on Michael Bourn running down the first base line and Bourn clearly runs way out of the base path to avoid it, and is called safe.  Never in my life have I seen a runner that far into foul territory on the base line and not be called out:







Now THIS is a rule that needs to be re-done, because it's too vague:



> 7.08
> 
> Any runner is out when --
> 
> (a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner&#8217;s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;



But I bet since the Phils lost because of it, you think THIS rule is just fine the way it is, right?


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the truth is that the ball did in fact swerve around the bag foul, and replay showed this, then you're still not explaining why the rule needs to change.
> 
> The ball is judged where it was at the bag.  It's so damn _simple_, dude!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeez. I get it. I've gotten it for 25 years!
> 
> I know what the rule IS. I'm stating that it should change. Baseball has changed rules many times before. In this case the ball SHOULD be fair if it bounces fair and lands fair. Not too difficult to understand WHY I think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it can bounce fair and foul a million times until it passes the bag.
> 
> At some point you have to cut it off and make the call, and the bag happens to be where the call is made.
> 
> There's been many rule changes or amendments that I understood and agreed with, but yours I do not.
> 
> I like that intangibles like acts of god can affect the outcome of the game.  If we just make tiny little rules to remedy all those situations it ruins it.
> 
> Let the ball do what it will, and judge based on the rule that exists.  It's simple.  Sometimes a bounce goes your way, sometimes it doesn't.  That's just sports _IN GENERAL_.
Click to expand...


Only in this case the ball never bounced foul. All it ever did was bounce in fair territory.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Alright dude, I'd say you were vindicated now after last night's terrible call against the Phils in the 8th.
> 
> Howard goes to make a tag on Michael Bourn running down the first base line and Bourn clearly runs way out of the base path to avoid it, and is called safe.  Never in my life have I seen a runner that far into foul territory on the base line and not be called out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now THIS is a rule that needs to be re-done, because it's too vague:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.08
> 
> Any runner is out when --
> 
> (a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner&#8217;s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I bet since the Phils lost because of it, you think THIS rule is just fine the way it is, right?
Click to expand...


You see I think he should have been called out. It was a blown call but we're not even yet. You still need to endure one more of those. But I agree with you on this one. I don't know how umpires miss something as obvious as this. It's freakin easy to see. The guy's on the grass. Last time I checked, the grass is not the basepath. If you're that blind, you're first clue that the guy is out is that the 6'5" long first baseman is IN the basepath diving for the runner and misses.


----------



## Missourian

Cards are going to need to rally in the ninth if their going to overcome their 3 run deficit and defeat the Nationals.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Missourian said:


> Cards are going to need to rally in the ninth if their going to overcome their 3 run deficit and defeat the Nationals.



Cards, Giants and Phillies all having tough times with weak teams lately.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Truthspeaker said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cards are going to need to rally in the ninth if their going to overcome their 3 run deficit and defeat the Nationals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cards, Giants and Phillies all having tough times with weak teams lately.
Click to expand...


Padres finally sliding, Phillies looking good, Giants now just 3 back. If this is the lincecum we see the rest of the year, The Padres will be fighting the Phillies for the Wild Card.

Cardinals phone in season. wtf


----------



## Truthspeaker

Padres slide increases to 8 games. Giants just 3 back.


----------



## Paulie

We're not even CONTEMPLATING the wild card my man.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> We're not even CONTEMPLATING the wild card my man.



Of course, because you don't want to accept the FACT that the Braves are a better team.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're not even CONTEMPLATING the wild card my man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, because you don't want to accept the FACT that the Braves are a better team.
Click to expand...


This makes no sense. 

Hudson lowe jurrjens doesn't match up against Halladay oswalt hamels, first of all. In a playoff series it would take a ton of luck for them to overcome that.  

Then u got no chipper, who normally kills us.  Lee not better than howard. A rookie in the outfield. Prado is good but hes no utley.  Gonzalez is good but he's no rollins.

The only edge I'd give them is mccann, even tho ruiz is mr clutch this year and having a career year.  But ruiz has been to the playoffs 3 times with 2 WS including a ring. He knows how to win.

You're out of your mind.  Talk to me after these upcoming meetings between the 2 of us.  That will help get things figured out.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're not even CONTEMPLATING the wild card my man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, because you don't want to accept the FACT that the Braves are a better team.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This makes no sense.
> 
> Hudson lowe jurrjens doesn't match up against Halladay oswalt hamels, first of all. In a playoff series it would take a ton of luck for them to overcome that.
> 
> Then u got no chipper, who normally kills us.  Lee not better than howard. A rookie in the outfield. Prado is good but hes no utley.  Gonzalez is good but he's no rollins.
> 
> The only edge I'd give them is mccann, even tho ruiz is mr clutch this year and having a career year.  But ruiz has been to the playoffs 3 times with 2 WS including a ring. He knows how to win.
> 
> You're out of your mind.  Talk to me after these upcoming meetings between the 2 of us.  That will help get things figured out.
Click to expand...


I knew that would get you fired up.

Comparisons:
C-McCann vs Ruiz= no comparison. We won't waste time there= +1 Braves
1b-Derek Lee .250, 16hr, 63rbi vs Ryan Howard.277,24,85= even
2b-Martin Prado-.317, 15,60, vs Chase what hav u done for me LUtley-.270,11,43=+1 Braves
SS-Omar Infante-.346,7,39 and hot as blazes vs. Jimmy not the same Rollins-.244,7,35=+2 Braves
3b-Troy Glaus-.240,16,70 vs Placido Polanco-.306,6,43=Glaus more productive so +3Braves
OF-Erick Hinske-.254,10,46 vs Shane Victorino-2.52,16,59,24sb's= +2 Braves
OF-Melkey Cabrera-.259,4,38 vs Jayson Werth-.293,18,63=+1 Braves
OF-Jason Heyward-.284,16,65 vs Raul Ibanez-.258,12,64=+2 Braves
Better lineup? Advantage Braves.

Better Staff?
Tim Hudson(15-5), 2.24ERA vs Roy Halladay(16-10)2.27ERA=+3 Braves
Tommy Hanson(9-10) 3.60 vs Roy Oswalt (10-13) 3.01= +2 Braves
Derek Lowe(11-12) 4.53 vs Cole Hamels (8-10) 3.31= +1 Braves
Kris Medlen(6-2)3.68 vs Kyle Kendrick (9-7)4.72= +2 Braves
Jair Jurrgens(6-4)4.38 vs Joe Blanton(6-6) 5.15=+3 Braves

While numbers can change, numbers don't lie and the most important number is wins in which the Phillies are trailing the Braves.

Don't step in to my statistical world son with your hometown emotions.
I just proved from an objective standpoint that the Braves are better than the Phillies. I'm not a fan of either.


----------



## Oddball

Featured | DET@MIN: Valencia wins it with a walk-off single - Video | twinsbaseball.com: Multimedia


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, because you don't want to accept the FACT that the Braves are a better team.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This makes no sense.
> 
> Hudson lowe jurrjens doesn't match up against Halladay oswalt hamels, first of all. In a playoff series it would take a ton of luck for them to overcome that.
> 
> Then u got no chipper, who normally kills us.  Lee not better than howard. A rookie in the outfield. Prado is good but hes no utley.  Gonzalez is good but he's no rollins.
> 
> The only edge I'd give them is mccann, even tho ruiz is mr clutch this year and having a career year.  But ruiz has been to the playoffs 3 times with 2 WS including a ring. He knows how to win.
> 
> You're out of your mind.  Talk to me after these upcoming meetings between the 2 of us.  That will help get things figured out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I knew that would get you fired up.
> 
> Comparisons:
> C-McCann vs Ruiz= no comparison. We won't waste time there= +1 Braves
> 1b-Derek Lee .250, 16hr, 63rbi vs Ryan Howard.277,24,85= even
> 2b-Martin Prado-.317, 15,60, vs Chase what hav u done for me LUtley-.270,11,43=+1 Braves
> SS-Omar Infante-.346,7,39 and hot as blazes vs. Jimmy not the same Rollins-.244,7,35=+2 Braves
> 3b-Troy Glaus-.240,16,70 vs Placido Polanco-.306,6,43=Glaus more productive so +3Braves
> OF-Erick Hinske-.254,10,46 vs Shane Victorino-2.52,16,59,24sb's= +2 Braves
> OF-Melkey Cabrera-.259,4,38 vs Jayson Werth-.293,18,63=+1 Braves
> OF-Jason Heyward-.284,16,65 vs Raul Ibanez-.258,12,64=+2 Braves
> Better lineup? Advantage Braves.
> 
> Better Staff?
> Tim Hudson(15-5), 2.24ERA vs Roy Halladay(16-10)2.27ERA=+3 Braves
> Tommy Hanson(9-10) 3.60 vs Roy Oswalt (10-13) 3.01= +2 Braves
> Derek Lowe(11-12) 4.53 vs Cole Hamels (8-10) 3.31= +1 Braves
> Kris Medlen(6-2)3.68 vs Kyle Kendrick (9-7)4.72= +2 Braves
> Jair Jurrgens(6-4)4.38 vs Joe Blanton(6-6) 5.15=+3 Braves
> 
> While numbers can change, numbers don't lie and the most important number is wins in which the Phillies are trailing the Braves.
> 
> Don't step in to my statistical world son with your hometown emotions.
> I just proved from an objective standpoint that the Braves are better than the Phillies. I'm not a fan of either.
Click to expand...


My god dude, there's so much wrong with all of that 

How you gave the edge to the braves on a lot of them, first of all.

Oswalt and Hamels both now have sub-3 ERA's and losing records because they lead the league in worst run support.  Wins and losses are not really all that important in determining a pitcher's value. If your defense is committing errors and your offense isn't scoring runs, it doesn't matter how well you pitch, you will lose.  You know that VERY WELL being a Giants fan.

Oswalt's been a BEAST since coming to Philly.  He has a _*sub-2*_ ERA and is something like 5 or 6 and 1.  You can't count the guy's record after being in Houston most of the year.  Giving Hanson the edge on that is just STUPID.

And Derek Lowe gets the edge on Hamels?  

4.53 era vs. Hamels sub-3 ERA?  And Lowe gets the edge?  Are you fucking kidding me?  

And you're probably the only non-braves fan that thinks Hudson gets the edge over Halladay.  That isn't even worth debating.

I don't know how you came up with so many edges to the Braves on that offensive comparison, either.  Glaus more productive than Polanco?  You're high on crack my man.  Polanco has been a fucking STUD for us this year at 3rd.  He puts the ball in play and consistently hits for .300 every season.  Glaus is having a mediocre season, for him.  I'll give you EVEN on that comparison, only because he's driven in more runs.

I'll give you Infante, even though Rollins provides the intangible for us that we seriously lack without him - the spark plug and the leadership.  We win way more ball games with him than without him, regardless of how sexy his numbers are.

And I don't even know what the fuck you're thinking on these:

OF-Erick Hinske-.254,10,46 vs Shane Victorino-2.52,16,59,24sb's= +2 Braves
OF-Melkey Cabrera-.259,4,38 vs Jayson Werth-.293,18,63=+1 Braves

Vic has 6 more HR and almost 15 more RBI, plus the SB's and the gold glove.  How the fuck does the edge go to ATL???

And how the FUCK does Cabrera get the edge over Werth?  Werth has 5 times the HR and twice the RBI, and 40 more points in AVG.  Explain how the braves get the edge there 

1b-Derek Lee .250, 16hr, 63rbi vs Ryan Howard.277,24,85= even

Even?  Howards numbers are all better than Lee's, so how is it even?

I've always enjoyed talking baseball with you on here, but I'm starting to wonder about you now...


----------



## Oddball

Thome crushes two more, to take sole possession of #9 on the all-time HR list.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11722343&topic_id=8877600&c_id=min

Those old school ivory jerseys are friggin' magical.


----------



## Truthspeaker

> My god dude, there's so much wrong with all of that


AU CONTRAIRE. I'd say it's right on the money.



> How you gave the edge to the braves on a lot of them, first of all.



My dear, poor Pauli Phanatic. I did not give the Braves the advantage in every category. I was counting points for one team or the next. You missed my whole point. When I say plus one it was only referring to that position comparison. At the end of the day the comparison showed that the Braves were 3 total points better if you were comparing position by position. I'll redo it for you to clear up.



> Oswalt and Hamels both now have sub-3 ERA's and losing records because they lead the league in worst run support.


Poor run support is a reason why the Phillies are not better than the Braves. The Braves hitters support their pitchers slightly better than the Phillies.



> Wins and losses are not really all that important in determining a pitcher's value. If your defense is committing errors and your offense isn't scoring runs, it doesn't matter how well you pitch, you will lose.  You know that VERY WELL being a Giants fan.


Truly stated. I know but I'm not going to hash all the stats. I'm also going on this years stats alone. All reputations thrown out the window.



> Oswalt's been a BEAST since coming to Philly.  He has a _*sub-2*_ ERA and is something like 5 or 6 and 1.  You can't count the guy's record after being in Houston most of the year.  Giving Hanson the edge on that is just STUPID.


As per my first explanation I did give Oswalt the edge. He's clearly better in every way. Especially considering the bulk of his stats coming from Houston.



> And Derek Lowe gets the edge on Hamels?


No Hamels got the edge.



> 4.53 era vs. Hamels sub-3 ERA?  And Lowe gets the edge?  Are you fucking kidding me?


No Hamels got the edge. He's a better pitcher.



> And you're probably the only non-braves fan that thinks Hudson gets the edge over Halladay.  That isn't even worth debating.


Now this is worth debating. And I'm not saying that in the end Hudson will go down as a greater historical pitcher than Halladay. Halladay is and will go down a the superior, but not this year. I gave the edge to Hudson because he is having a slightly better season. The numbers don't lie. Hudson could end up with the Cy Young. Check every one of his stats. He's having a ridiculous year. Even more ridiculous than Halladay. That's why I gave him the nod. Below in red are the edges which the pitcher has the advantage. You'll see the stats are very similar, nearly identical but in the most critical stats, Hudson has the slight edge, ERA, Batting average against, Wins. Where Halladay, a favorite if we're talking last year, is the leader in the sexier stats like strikeouts and complete games.
1. Tim Hudson 	
1. 	T Hudson
	ATL 	15W 6L 2.30era 	28g 	28gs 1cg	1sho 	191.2ip 	152h 51r 49er 12hr 	6hbp 	59bb 	113k  1.10whip .222baa 5.39k/9 


2. 	R Halladay
	PHI 	17W 	10L 	2.36ERA 	29G 	29GS  8CG 3sho 221.0ip 	204h	 64r 	58er 	21hr 	5hbp 28bb 196K 1.05whip .245oba 7.98k/9




> I don't know how you came up with so many edges to the Braves on that offensive comparison, either.


I'm sure you get me now.



> Glaus more productive than Polanco?  You're high on crack my man.  Polanco has been a fucking STUD for us this year at 3rd.  He puts the ball in play and consistently hits for .300 every season.  Glaus is having a mediocre season, for him.  I'll give you EVEN on that comparison, only because he's driven in more runs.


At the end of the day the measure of a more productive hitter is always runs scored or rbi. Glaus leads Polanco in both. Runs and hits that drive in runs are ultimately more important than any other stat. All other states are mere indicators but not absolute. Runs are absolute. Runs cannot be denied and also show the clutch ability of a player.


I'll give you Infante, even though Rollins provides the intangible for us that we seriously lack without him - the spark plug and the leadership.  We win way more ball games with him than without him, regardless of how sexy his numbers are.

And I don't even know what the fuck you're thinking on these:



> OF-Erick Hinske-.254,10,46 vs Shane Victorino-2.52,16,59,24sb's= +2 Braves
> OF-Melkey Cabrera-.259,4,38 vs Jayson Werth-.293,18,63=+1 Braves


I would be insane if I gave the edge to the braves on either of these two. That's why the edge went down from 3 with Shane and down from 2 with Werth.

Philadelphia is plus one in the outfield because they take two out of the three matchups.






> 1b-Derek Lee .250, 16hr, 63rbi vs Ryan Howard.277,24,85= even
> 
> Even?  Howards numbers are all better than Lee's, so how is it even?


Howard is the clear edge this year. The braves started off up one matchup with Mcann getting the edge over the phillies catcher. It went back even when Howard took the matchup with Lee.
Even Lee's best season is not better than Howard's best season.



> I've always enjoyed talking baseball with you on here, but I'm starting to wonder about you now...


It's ok, you can put your shirt back on now.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> My god dude, there's so much wrong with all of that
> 
> 
> 
> AU CONTRAIRE. I'd say it's right on the money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How you gave the edge to the braves on a lot of them, first of all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My dear, poor Pauli Phanatic. I did not give the Braves the advantage in every category. I was counting points for one team or the next. You missed my whole point. When I say plus one it was only referring to that position comparison. At the end of the day the comparison showed that the Braves were 3 total points better if you were comparing position by position. I'll redo it for you to clear up.
> 
> 
> Poor run support is a reason why the Phillies are not better than the Braves. The Braves hitters support their pitchers slightly better than the Phillies.
> 
> 
> Truly stated. I know but I'm not going to hash all the stats. I'm also going on this years stats alone. All reputations thrown out the window.
> 
> 
> As per my first explanation I did give Oswalt the edge. He's clearly better in every way. Especially considering the bulk of his stats coming from Houston.
> 
> 
> No Hamels got the edge.
> 
> 
> No Hamels got the edge. He's a better pitcher.
> 
> 
> Now this is worth debating. And I'm not saying that in the end Hudson will go down as a greater historical pitcher than Halladay. Halladay is and will go down a the superior, but not this year. I gave the edge to Hudson because he is having a slightly better season. The numbers don't lie. Hudson could end up with the Cy Young. Check every one of his stats. He's having a ridiculous year. Even more ridiculous than Halladay. That's why I gave him the nod. Below in red are the edges which the pitcher has the advantage. You'll see the stats are very similar, nearly identical but in the most critical stats, Hudson has the slight edge, ERA, Batting average against, Wins. Where Halladay, a favorite if we're talking last year, is the leader in the sexier stats like strikeouts and complete games.
> 1. Tim Hudson
> 1. 	T Hudson
> ATL 	15W 6L 2.30era 	28g 	28gs 1cg	1sho 	191.2ip 	152h 51r 49er 12hr 	6hbp 	59bb 	113k  1.10whip .222baa 5.39k/9
> 
> 
> 2. 	R Halladay
> PHI 	17W 	10L 	2.36ERA 	29G 	29GS  8CG 3sho 221.0ip 	204h	 64r 	58er 	21hr 	5hbp 28bb 196K 1.05whip .245oba 7.98k/9
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you get me now.
> 
> 
> At the end of the day the measure of a more productive hitter is always runs scored or rbi. Glaus leads Polanco in both. Runs and hits that drive in runs are ultimately more important than any other stat. All other states are mere indicators but not absolute. Runs are absolute. Runs cannot be denied and also show the clutch ability of a player.
> 
> 
> I'll give you Infante, even though Rollins provides the intangible for us that we seriously lack without him - the spark plug and the leadership.  We win way more ball games with him than without him, regardless of how sexy his numbers are.
> 
> And I don't even know what the fuck you're thinking on these:
> 
> 
> I would be insane if I gave the edge to the braves on either of these two. That's why the edge went down from 3 with Shane and down from 2 with Werth.
> 
> Philadelphia is plus one in the outfield because they take two out of the three matchups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1b-Derek Lee .250, 16hr, 63rbi vs Ryan Howard.277,24,85= even
> 
> Even?  Howards numbers are all better than Lee's, so how is it even?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Howard is the clear edge this year. The braves started off up one matchup with Mcann getting the edge over the phillies catcher. It went back even when Howard took the matchup with Lee.
> Even Lee's best season is not better than Howard's best season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've always enjoyed talking baseball with you on here, but I'm starting to wonder about you now...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok, you can put your shirt back on now.
Click to expand...


I don't have time right now to get into this but I will say that I stand corrected on the way you scored the comparisons.  I thought you were giving a 1 for a small edge and 2 or 3 for a bigger edge.  I didn't catch on to the fact that you were just adding or subtracting 1 as you went along.  I see now that you gave phi the edge on a lot of those.

I will be back later to debate the rest though


----------



## Truthspeaker

Padres monumental collapse continues. Giants just 1 game back now.


----------



## Oddball

Thome hits the shit out of another one...Three of 'em over for the weekend.

Somebody sign this dude up!

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Crushed: Thome hits a mammoth home run - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia


----------



## Truthspeaker

That was a man sized homer. 480 feet is awesome power. I wish they would post the distances of every homer that gets hit. 

Padres finally win a game after 10 game skid. Giants win again after shutout of Snakes. 1 game back in division and 1 and a half back of wild card. Lincecum tonight versus Barry Enright of the D-backs. Tiny Tim regains his form and we'll run away with the  division.


----------



## Oddball

Thome...is...on...fire...Crushes another one out to the RF plaza, to tie Frank Robinson on the all-time list.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news..._id=14417490&vkey=news_min&fext=.jsp&c_id=min


----------



## Truthspeaker

Looks like Twins will definitely be in the postseason. Braves give up the booty and let Phillies overtake them by losing to the miserable Pirates.

Tim Lincecum regains form and beats snakes. Giants go for sweep of D-backs. Today is the day the Giants move into tie for first place when they sweep the snakes and the Dog-germs beat the Fathers.


----------



## Oddball

Magic number = 10.


----------



## Nosmo King

I sure wish we had major league baseball in Pittsburgh.  We used to!  Back when I was a vibrant young man, not a middle aged curmudgeon.

The question today is:  With the Pittsburgh Pirates at 48 wins and 97 losses, will they lose their 100th game before they win their 50th?

The question used to be: Why are the Pirates trading away all their best prospects?  Now we know the answer.  Cheap, stupid and greedy ownership.

Anyone want to trade an NBA frachise for the Pirates?


----------



## Paulie

Here's the case for Halladay to get the NL Cy Young this year:

The sub-3 ERA pitchers with more than 15 wins:

Halladay
Jimenez
Hudson
Wainwright

Out of those 4, Halladay has the most wins with 19.  He also has the most K's, most IP, by far the most CG, and the most shutouts.  Not to mention, his ERA happens to be the lowest of the 4.

He's given up the most hits, but when you couple that with his league-leading ERA, it shows that he's well focused in pressure situations.  He's also given up the most HR, by a pretty big margin, but again, when you look at his ERA it says a lot. Plus he pitches in Citizens Bank Park, a known band box.

Only Wainwright has a lower WHIP than Halladay, by only .01.  Halladay has walked FAR less batters than any of those 4.  He's about 50% less than Wainwright, and about 75% less than the other 2.

The man is a beast, and to top it off, his team is leading the NL East by 3 games.

There's a couple weeks left, but he looks like the clear favorite right now.


----------



## Oddball

_*SWEEEEEEEEEEEP!*_ IN CHICAGO!

Magic number: 8.

Put _*that*_ one on the board, Ken Harrelson, you insufferable dickweed!


----------



## Truthspeaker

Braves are no longer better than Phillies. Halladay has pushed forward while Hudson slumps back. He may very well win the cy young but with 2 starts left it's still up for grabs.

Giant finally move into first place and the weary Padres are in danger of falling out of the race. Jonathan Sanchez fires another gem striking out 12 pitiful Bums in Blue. Damn it feels good to say that!


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Braves are no longer better than Phillies. Halladay has pushed forward while Hudson slumps back. He may very well win the cy young but with 2 starts left it's still up for grabs.
> 
> Giant finally move into first place and the weary Padres are in danger of falling out of the race. Jonathan Sanchez fires another gem striking out 12 pitiful Bums in Blue. Damn it feels good to say that!



Hudson's numbers aren't good enough.

It's between Halladay and Wainwright. 

_Maybe_ Jimenez.


----------



## Oddball

Twins win while Sox lose.... Twins are AL Central Champs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Now, to keep on winning and snatch home field from those awful Skankees.


----------



## Paulie

Oddball said:


> Twins win while Sox lose.... Twins are AL Central Champs!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, to keep on winning and snatch home field from those awful Skankees.



Congrats man!

I don't know how you guys pull it off every year.

Our magic number is 6, and we're indisputably the hottest team in the majors right now.


----------



## 2Parties

Tigers are swimming in a sea of mediocrity but I'm ok with it.  .500 teams are 100x more fun to watch than those that lose 100/season.


----------



## Oddball

I can't figger it out...

Twins are even with the Skankees and Rays for home field throughout the playoffs, yet Gardenhire keeps plugging three and four AAA ham-n-eggers into the lineups.

He's killin' me!


----------



## 2Parties

Oddball said:


> I can't figger it out...
> 
> Twins are even with the Skankees and Rays for home field throughout the playoffs, yet Gardenhire keeps plugging three and four AAA ham-n-eggers into the lineups.
> 
> He's killin' me!



That umpiring tonight was absolutely atrocious.

How Casper Wells ended up with a triple after the fan touched it was an absolute joke.     Some guys wouldn't have made it to 2nd on that play...


----------



## Oddball

Didn't see it.

I'm stuck watching the MLB Gameday simulations, unless I venture out to a sports bar that has the Fox Sports package.


----------



## 2Parties

Gardenhire got thrown out after that play.

Tigers had guys on 1st and 2nd.  Casper Wells hit a nice shot down the 3rd base line, and then a fan reached out and touched the ball.  Originally the umpires ruled 2 bases and held the runner who moved from 1st base to 3rd.  Leyland came out to argue and the umpires changed their mind.  Not only was the runner from 3rd allowed to score, but Wells was given 3rd.

I've never seen a batter get 3rd on a play like that in my life.


----------



## Oddball

OMG...I've never seen a manager argument actually win and get a call reversed.

Sheesh.


----------



## 2Parties

Also, since I'm not in Michigan anymore I'd die without MLB Extra Innings or MLB.tv

I'd have to get an actual life and do something productive like a real person.


----------



## 2Parties

Oddball said:


> OMG...I've never seen a manager argument actually win and get a call reversed.
> 
> Sheesh.



A week ago or so the Tigers were playing at Texas.  Can't remember who but the guy blasts one down the 1st base line.  Umpire rules "home run".  It's clearly foul by at least 3 or 4 feet.

The pitcher and entire Tigers dugout sitting on the 3rd base line see it's clearly foul.  No big deal, Leyland goes out to argue so they'll go to the good old "instant replay".  

TV shows view after view showing without question it's foul.  Umpire comes back after several minutes and rules it a home run.  

Instant replay rules (*cue Calvin Johnson's catch in the endzone video*)


----------



## Oddball

I was, of course, referring to calls not made under instant replay.

Really...I've never seen an umpiring crew reverse a bad call, no matter how blatantly bad it was.


----------



## 2Parties

Oddball said:


> Really...I've never seen an umpiring crew reverse a bad call, no matter how blatantly bad it was.



It just doesn't happen, you are right.


----------



## Paulie

Oddball said:


> I can't figger it out...
> 
> Twins are even with the Skankees and Rays for home field throughout the playoffs, yet Gardenhire keeps plugging three and four AAA ham-n-eggers into the lineups.
> 
> He's killin' me!



Especially considering your huge home advantage.  Some of the talking heads think you guys have a shot at the title, but one thing they all agree on is that you need home field advantage or you're toast.


----------



## Missourian

Cards 8,  Cubs 7,  Bottom of the 8th,  2 outs.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/scoreboard/index.jsp


----------



## Missourian

Cardinals held on!  8 to 7.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Looks like here will be your National League playoffs. 
East Champ Phillies vs Wild Card San Diego
West Champ Giants vs Central Champ Reds.

The Rockies are finally toast and the Braves are grasping for air.

Giants staff in the playoffs finally combined with decent offense ...Very scary!!!!!

Phillies will beat Padres in 5
Giants beat Reds in 5

Phillies/Giants go seven with Lincecum beating Halladay in Philadelphia. Pat Burrell game winning homer vs former team.


Giants beat Yankees in game seven in San Francisco.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Looks like here will be your National League playoffs.
> East Champ Phillies vs Wild Card San Diego
> West Champ Giants vs Central Champ Reds.
> 
> The Rockies are finally toast and the Braves are grasping for air.
> 
> Giants staff in the playoffs finally combined with decent offense ...Very scary!!!!!
> 
> Phillies will beat Padres in 5
> Giants beat Reds in 5
> 
> Phillies/Giants go seven with Lincecum beating Halladay in Philadelphia. Pat Burrell game winning homer vs former team.
> 
> 
> Giants beat Yankees in game seven in San Francisco.



You need last year's rotation with this year's offense.  You don't have what it takes this year, sorry bud.

And Halladay wouldn't pitch game 7, he'd pitch game 6 with regular rest.  This assumes he's the game 1 starter, which I think is a pretty safe bet.

Game 2 is a toss-up between Hamels and Oswalt judging on stats alone, but with your righty-heavy lineup I would have to assume Oswalt gets game 2.

That would mean Oswalt would start game 7 with regular rest, with a possibility of Hamels available out of the pen.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like here will be your National League playoffs.
> East Champ Phillies vs Wild Card San Diego
> West Champ Giants vs Central Champ Reds.
> 
> The Rockies are finally toast and the Braves are grasping for air.
> 
> Giants staff in the playoffs finally combined with decent offense ...Very scary!!!!!
> 
> Phillies will beat Padres in 5
> Giants beat Reds in 5
> 
> Phillies/Giants go seven with Lincecum beating Halladay in Philadelphia. Pat Burrell game winning homer vs former team.
> 
> 
> Giants beat Yankees in game seven in San Francisco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need last year's rotation with this year's offense.  You don't have what it takes this year, sorry bud.
> 
> And Halladay wouldn't pitch game 7, he'd pitch game 6 with regular rest.  This assumes he's the game 1 starter, which I think is a pretty safe bet.
> 
> Game 2 is a toss-up between Hamels and Oswalt judging on stats alone, but with your righty-heavy lineup I would have to assume Oswalt gets game 2.
> 
> That would mean Oswalt would start game 7 with regular rest, with a possibility of Hamels available out of the pen.
Click to expand...


I'll definitely take this years rotation especially with the historic september they've had. 19 out of 20 games they held their opponents to 3 runs or less. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY  since 1917 has done that. that's 93 friggin years. Best pitching staff and hottest pitching staff in the majors. I'll take this years. Giants are the only staff that can slow down the phillies. It's gonna be fun we'll have a lot to talk about in the NLCS. You can bet your firstborn child that's who's gonna be playin in the nlcs. Giants Phillies.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like here will be your National League playoffs.
> East Champ Phillies vs Wild Card San Diego
> West Champ Giants vs Central Champ Reds.
> 
> The Rockies are finally toast and the Braves are grasping for air.
> 
> Giants staff in the playoffs finally combined with decent offense ...Very scary!!!!!
> 
> Phillies will beat Padres in 5
> Giants beat Reds in 5
> 
> Phillies/Giants go seven with Lincecum beating Halladay in Philadelphia. Pat Burrell game winning homer vs former team.
> 
> 
> Giants beat Yankees in game seven in San Francisco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need last year's rotation with this year's offense.  You don't have what it takes this year, sorry bud.
> 
> And Halladay wouldn't pitch game 7, he'd pitch game 6 with regular rest.  This assumes he's the game 1 starter, which I think is a pretty safe bet.
> 
> Game 2 is a toss-up between Hamels and Oswalt judging on stats alone, but with your righty-heavy lineup I would have to assume Oswalt gets game 2.
> 
> That would mean Oswalt would start game 7 with regular rest, with a possibility of Hamels available out of the pen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll definitely take this years rotation especially with the historic september they've had. 19 out of 20 games they held their opponents to 3 runs or less. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY  since 1917 has done that. that's 93 friggin years. Best pitching staff and hottest pitching staff in the majors. I'll take this years. Giants are the only staff that can slow down the phillies. It's gonna be fun we'll have a lot to talk about in the NLCS. You can bet your firstborn child that's who's gonna be playin in the nlcs. Giants Phillies.
Click to expand...


That's only slightly better than our rotation at this point.  Our 1-2-3 are 13-0 with an ERA under 3 in their last 13, and Blanton's been solid as well since the break.

Our lineup also has much more potential against your staff than your lineup does against ours.

We also have the playoff experience, whereas you have a roster consisting mostly of first-timers.

I'm not being a homer here when I say you are out-matched.  It's just the way it is.  

But we still have to not only get to that point, but play the games as well.  I'd like to see you guys in the NLCS.  This is the first year so far that I'm not worried about any of the AL teams.


----------



## Andrew2382

ugly fukin game by my yanks....i see an early playoff depature the way this team is playing


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need last year's rotation with this year's offense.  You don't have what it takes this year, sorry bud.
> 
> And Halladay wouldn't pitch game 7, he'd pitch game 6 with regular rest.  This assumes he's the game 1 starter, which I think is a pretty safe bet.
> 
> Game 2 is a toss-up between Hamels and Oswalt judging on stats alone, but with your righty-heavy lineup I would have to assume Oswalt gets game 2.
> 
> That would mean Oswalt would start game 7 with regular rest, with a possibility of Hamels available out of the pen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll definitely take this years rotation especially with the historic september they've had. 19 out of 20 games they held their opponents to 3 runs or less. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY  since 1917 has done that. that's 93 friggin years. Best pitching staff and hottest pitching staff in the majors. I'll take this years. Giants are the only staff that can slow down the phillies. It's gonna be fun we'll have a lot to talk about in the NLCS. You can bet your firstborn child that's who's gonna be playin in the nlcs. Giants Phillies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's only slightly better than our rotation at this point.  Our 1-2-3 are 13-0 with an ERA under 3 in their last 13, and Blanton's been solid as well since the break.
> 
> Our lineup also has much more potential against your staff than your lineup does against ours.
> 
> We also have the playoff experience, whereas you have a roster consisting mostly of first-timers.
> 
> I'm not being a homer here when I say you are out-matched.  It's just the way it is.
> 
> But we still have to not only get to that point, but play the games as well.  I'd like to see you guys in the NLCS.  This is the first year so far that I'm not worried about any of the AL teams.
Click to expand...



not gonna argue with you on that front. The Phillies unquestionably have the superior experience. At least as far as their lineup goes. the rotation is largely unexperienced in the playoffs though, however good they are. It will be interesting to see the great pitching matchups. But I'll say this: They're two very good teams right now. The Giants are fully healthy and beaming with confidence. and I honestly don't see the reds or the padres getting past the first round. so All I'm saying is that it will be a good series and either team could win. But you will find the Giants to be anything but overmatched!


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll definitely take this years rotation especially with the historic september they've had. 19 out of 20 games they held their opponents to 3 runs or less. NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY  since 1917 has done that. that's 93 friggin years. Best pitching staff and hottest pitching staff in the majors. I'll take this years. Giants are the only staff that can slow down the phillies. It's gonna be fun we'll have a lot to talk about in the NLCS. You can bet your firstborn child that's who's gonna be playin in the nlcs. Giants Phillies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's only slightly better than our rotation at this point.  Our 1-2-3 are 13-0 with an ERA under 3 in their last 13, and Blanton's been solid as well since the break.
> 
> Our lineup also has much more potential against your staff than your lineup does against ours.
> 
> We also have the playoff experience, whereas you have a roster consisting mostly of first-timers.
> 
> I'm not being a homer here when I say you are out-matched.  It's just the way it is.
> 
> But we still have to not only get to that point, but play the games as well.  I'd like to see you guys in the NLCS.  This is the first year so far that I'm not worried about any of the AL teams.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> not gonna argue with you on that front. The Phillies unquestionably have the superior experience. At least as far as their lineup goes. the rotation is largely unexperienced in the playoffs though, however good they are. It will be interesting to see the great pitching matchups. But I'll say this: They're two very good teams right now. The Giants are fully healthy and beaming with confidence. and I honestly don't see the reds or the padres getting past the first round. so All I'm saying is that it will be a good series and either team could win. But you will find the Giants to be anything but overmatched!
Click to expand...


Only one in our rotation who hasn't seen playoff action is Halladay, and I'm pretty sure he's going to handle it ok.


----------



## Missourian

Cardinal have to win all seven remaining games to make the playoffs.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Well that was an interesting turn of events. I didn't see the padres missing the playoffs.... I can't even imagine the agony in San Diego right now after the season they had. they just became last years Giants. but even worse because they choked in September with huge iron clad lead of 71/2 games going into september. Now it's outski and they let a struggling Braves team that was trying to miss the playoffs get in.

I'm glad we get the Braves in the first round. I'll take my fresh and rested starting staff and bullpen in 4 games. maybe a sweep. I'll take lincecum over Derek Lowe to start game 1. The only game the braves should win is the Tim Hudson start, but that's assuming he doesn't get outpitched by Matt Cain.

Phillies will likely sweep


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Well that was an interesting turn of events. I didn't see the padres missing the playoffs.... I can't even imagine the agony in San Diego right now after the season they had. they just became last years Giants. but even worse because they choked in September with huge iron clad lead of 71/2 games going into september. Now it's outski and they let a struggling Braves team that was trying to miss the playoffs get in.
> 
> I'm glad we get the Braves in the first round. I'll take my fresh and rested starting staff and bullpen in 4 games. maybe a sweep. I'll take lincecum over Derek Lowe to start game 1. The only game the braves should win is the Tim Hudson start, but that's assuming he doesn't get outpitched by Matt Cain.
> 
> Phillies will likely sweep



I'm not optimistic about a sweep.  We haven't seen Volquez in a long time.  I wouldn't be surprised if he baffles us a bit.  It may be a pitching duel in game 1.


----------



## Paulie

Roy Halladay throws 2nd no-hitter in postseason history!

I've watched more baseball games than I can even comprehend, and I've seen several no-hitters including Halladay's perfect game earlier this year, and I've NEVER seen a pitching performance as good as this one tonight.

That was just NASTY.


----------



## Article 15

Paulie said:


> Roy Halladay throws 2nd no-hitter in postseason history!
> 
> I've watched more baseball games than I can even comprehend, and I've seen several no-hitters including Halladay's perfect game earlier this year, and I've NEVER seen a pitching performance as good as this one tonight.
> 
> That was just NASTY.



I watched the entire game riveted.


----------



## Modbert

Roy Halladay must be part machine. That is ridiculously nasty.


----------



## Paulie

It's just that much sweeter that it was against the NL's top offense too.

Votto stepping out like that's gonna do SHIT


----------



## 2Parties

Now I can root for the Twinkies again.


----------



## Wry Catcher

My son and I went to the Giants-Braves opener last night.  55 was on all night; two hit, one walk complete game shutout.  
We got to AT&T two hours early to watch BP; since it's Fleet Week the Blue Angeles are in town and for one hour before the game we were treated to fly overs - maybe a dozen.
After the NA four planes flew right over our heads and they might have been 10 feet apart.
If anyone is going tonight, bring a good camera.  We had only our cell phones, big mistake.

Matt Cain tonight, it's pizza and salad and (maybe a beer or two).

Oh, I'd be remiss not to shoutout to Wicked Jester, "How 'bout them Dodgers".


----------



## Ragnar

Here comes the 9th and the Reds have gone form 4-zip to getting creamed 4-7 and lucky it's only that.



sheesh 






farking baseball, lol, oh well then. Still get to watch the Bungles get creamed for a few more months at least.


----------



## Paulie

Ragnar said:


> Here comes the 9th and the Reds have gone form 4-zip to getting creamed 4-7 and lucky it's only that.
> 
> 
> 
> sheesh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> farking baseball, lol, oh well then. Still get to watch the Bungles get creamed for a few more months at least.



I'm sorry you're a reds fan


----------



## Paulie

Texas doesn't want it.

But it'll be Lee in game 5, so the Rays better bring their bats.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Roy who?

Tim Lincecum fans a giants playoff record 14 batters in one game. Matt Cain baffles Braves, Sanchez owns Braves, Rookie Bumgarner grew up in his first season in the playoffs. Giants hold Braves to an 0.39 era in NLDS. 

Giants also have highest postseason batting average so far. So you say the Giants will be overmatched eh, Paulie?

(not serious about the Roy who)


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Roy who?
> 
> Tim Lincecum fans a giants playoff record 14 batters in one game. Matt Cain baffles Braves, Sanchez owns Braves, Rookie Bumgarner grew up in his first season in the playoffs. Giants hold Braves to an 0.39 era in NLDS.
> 
> Giants also have highest postseason batting average so far. So you say the Giants will be overmatched eh, Paulie?
> 
> (not serious about the Roy who)



You're lucky you put the not serious thing at the end 

I saw the talking heads trying to pull that one all week.  I don't care if you strike out 26 batters and the last one gets a hit.  It still doesn't beat a no-hitter.

But anyway, I don't think your run total was the same.  You can get all the hits you want, as long as you're not driving in runs.

You have the toughest task in the MLB playoffs right now, facing our pitching.  

But our task is pretty tough too against yours.  Whoever outpitches will win, it's that simple.  I'm really looking forward to it.  There's too much time off right now.

Saturday??

They should just move the damn schedule up accordingly.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roy who?
> 
> Tim Lincecum fans a giants playoff record 14 batters in one game. Matt Cain baffles Braves, Sanchez owns Braves, Rookie Bumgarner grew up in his first season in the playoffs. Giants hold Braves to an 0.39 era in NLDS.
> 
> Giants also have highest postseason batting average so far. So you say the Giants will be overmatched eh, Paulie?
> 
> (not serious about the Roy who)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're lucky you put the not serious thing at the end
> 
> I saw the talking heads trying to pull that one all week.  I don't care if you strike out 26 batters and the last one gets a hit.  It still doesn't beat a no-hitter.
> 
> But anyway, I don't think your run total was the same.  You can get all the hits you want, as long as you're not driving in runs.
> 
> You have the toughest task in the MLB playoffs right now, facing our pitching.
> 
> But our task is pretty tough too against yours.  Whoever outpitches will win, it's that simple.  I'm really looking forward to it.  There's too much time off right now.
> 
> Saturday??
> 
> They should just move the damn schedule up accordingly.
Click to expand...


au contraire, the Giants are the only team to beat Oswalt(3 times), Halladay(chased in 4 innings), and Hamels this year. 
However good that staff is, it's not better than our 4 starters who are historically hot even above the phillies. 
No my friend, you have the toughest task ahead. The Giants are confident against the phillies. I'm sure the phillies are confident too. But the numbers don't lie. Jonathan Sanchez will be the death of you when we get one of those two games in Philly at least. The Phils don't hit lefties well and flounder against sanchez.

No my dear Paulie,
The Giants are the real favorite in this series.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roy who?
> 
> Tim Lincecum fans a giants playoff record 14 batters in one game. Matt Cain baffles Braves, Sanchez owns Braves, Rookie Bumgarner grew up in his first season in the playoffs. Giants hold Braves to an 0.39 era in NLDS.
> 
> Giants also have highest postseason batting average so far. So you say the Giants will be overmatched eh, Paulie?
> 
> (not serious about the Roy who)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're lucky you put the not serious thing at the end
> 
> I saw the talking heads trying to pull that one all week.  I don't care if you strike out 26 batters and the last one gets a hit.  It still doesn't beat a no-hitter.
> 
> But anyway, I don't think your run total was the same.  You can get all the hits you want, as long as you're not driving in runs.
> 
> You have the toughest task in the MLB playoffs right now, facing our pitching.
> 
> But our task is pretty tough too against yours.  Whoever outpitches will win, it's that simple.  I'm really looking forward to it.  There's too much time off right now.
> 
> Saturday??
> 
> They should just move the damn schedule up accordingly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> au contraire, the Giants are the only team to beat Oswalt(3 times), Halladay(chased in 4 innings), and Hamels this year.
> However good that staff is, it's not better than our 4 starters who are historically hot even above the phillies.
> No my friend, you have the toughest task ahead. The Giants are confident against the phillies. I'm sure the phillies are confident too. But the numbers don't lie. Jonathan Sanchez will be the death of you when we get one of those two games in Philly at least. The Phils don't hit lefties well and flounder against sanchez.
> 
> No my dear Paulie,
> The Giants are the real favorite in this series.
Click to expand...


If you guys beat us out, I will come back here and congratulate you on a job well done.  I will even be rooting for you as long as Texas isn't in the WS.

But if we beat you, I'm going to make you cry


----------



## 2Parties

2010 World Series:  Rangers vs Giants


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're lucky you put the not serious thing at the end
> 
> I saw the talking heads trying to pull that one all week.  I don't care if you strike out 26 batters and the last one gets a hit.  It still doesn't beat a no-hitter.
> 
> But anyway, I don't think your run total was the same.  You can get all the hits you want, as long as you're not driving in runs.
> 
> You have the toughest task in the MLB playoffs right now, facing our pitching.
> 
> But our task is pretty tough too against yours.  Whoever outpitches will win, it's that simple.  I'm really looking forward to it.  There's too much time off right now.
> 
> Saturday??
> 
> They should just move the damn schedule up accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> au contraire, the Giants are the only team to beat Oswalt(3 times), Halladay(chased in 4 innings), and Hamels this year.
> However good that staff is, it's not better than our 4 starters who are historically hot even above the phillies.
> No my friend, you have the toughest task ahead. The Giants are confident against the phillies. I'm sure the phillies are confident too. But the numbers don't lie. Jonathan Sanchez will be the death of you when we get one of those two games in Philly at least. The Phils don't hit lefties well and flounder against sanchez.
> 
> No my dear Paulie,
> The Giants are the real favorite in this series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you guys beat us out, I will come back here and congratulate you on a job well done.  I will even be rooting for you as long as Texas isn't in the WS.
> 
> But if we beat you, I'm going to make you cry
Click to expand...


I guess that's why we play the game, because none of this talk matters. I tell you what tho. you should warn some of those arrogant Phillies fans to have a little respect for their opponent. We are vastly respectful of the battle tested phillies, so we aren't taking them lightly. But if the Phillies players are like the majority of their boastful fans, they will probably get swept. It is a real possibility for either team with how talented their staffs are.
But I'm sure the Phillies didn't get where they are by taking their opponent for granted. I guess that's why they're on the field and the meatheads are in the stands. I was born in Philadelphia so I was glad when they won if the Giants couldn't. I was sad when they got screwed over by umps in the series against the Yanks.

But Phillie phans shouldn't take these fat years for granted. Remember the empty seats at memorial stadium. It could always happen again. it's a rare privilege to have your city represented in the playoffs. It seems only Yankee fans can actually take it for granted. Be carefull Philly or it could come back and bite you. I anticipate a 1-0 game in extra innings in game one. toss up as to who will win with two cy young winners on the mound. 

Game 2 will go to the Giants because of Jonathan Sanchez dominance of the phillies and the Giants ownage of Oswalt.

Game 3 will go to the giants taking Cain over Hamels. a 4-3 game.

Game 4 will go to the phillies since Halladay will pitch again against the giants Bumgarner(but the kid is no walk in the park. He's highly tallented, smooth, competetive and as cool as the other side of the pillow at 21)

Beyond that I just can't predict.

I believe either team is capable of sweeping the other because their pitching has the potential to be lock down.

It's such an interesting series because both teams are so evenly matched. It will come down to pitching, especially bullpen pitching and 1 or 2 big homeruns each game. that's how the runs will be scored. I don't see 5 runs being scored in any of these games.

This series could end in a sweep of one team winning 4 one run games. But no matter if it goes 4 or seven. they will all be 2 run games or less.


----------



## Truthspeaker

and why do you hate Texas Paulie?


----------



## Truthspeaker

Advantage matchups. Phillies vs. Giants:

Catcher:

Buster Posey .305 avg, 18hrs, 47 rbi added just before all star break, phenomenal defensive stud. throws out everyone who tries to steal. blocks everything. Manages game incredibly well. Pitching staff adores him. Likely rookie of the year. Hitting .375 in the playoffs.
vs.
Charlie Ruiz .302 avg, 8 hrs, 53 rbi. A respectable player. Excellent receiver, equally adored by his pitching staff.

advantage Buster Posey, Giants +1

3rd base:

Pablo Sandoval .268, 13 hrs, 63 rbi, a down year compared to his incredible season last year hitting .330,25, 90. But the panda is a wild card who can really carry a team. much like Jimmy Rollins when hot. But that is a big ? right now. is susceptible to defensive miscues, but decent defensively.
vs.
Placido Polanco ..298, 6, 52rbi, a serviceable big league third baseman. better defensively than sandoval and hit for a higher average but with less power.

Wash. giants remain +1

Shortstop. Interesting matchup
Juan Uribe .248 avg, 24 hrs, 85rbi. Had a down year for average, but a huge year in the clutch. All his biggest hits came with two outs or the giants trailing. Hit 3 walk off homers this year and drove in a ton of runs for a shortstop. solid defensively with a cannon arm. His experience is a huge plus having won a title with the White sox as their ss in 06.
vs.
Jimmy Rollins .241, 8 hrs, 41rbi. By all accounts had a poor year by his standards. But this is the playoffs so he may be able to turn it around. He's the Phillies Pablo Sandoval this year. Big ? for the phillies. Which Rollins will they see? the mvp or the fraction of himself in 2010. Due to the experience of Uribe, Rollins loses the matchup.
Advantage Giants now +2

2nd Base:
Freddy Sanchez .292, 7, 47. After a slow start coming back from wrist surgery hitting just .227 on Aug 1st, the 06 batting champ went berzerk in August and september hitting .410 to raise his average to .292 with 7 homers and 47 rbi. Likely to win the gold glove this year with his flawless defense. Also was huge in the clutch during the stretch run and in the nlds vs. Atlanta. His continued hot streak will be key if he can keep it up.
vs.
Chase Utley .275, 16 hrs, 65rbi. Had limited at bats this year due to injury but appears to be back to normal again which means as good as Freddy has been, still gives the edge to Utley because of his pure power and run driving ability. But freddy's no pushover and it's likely that defense may player a bigger role than offense in this series.
But I confess advantage Phillies. Giants ad down to +1

First Base:
Aubrey Huff .290, 26 hrs, 86 rbi. The veteran resurrected his career and was nothing short of fabulous in the clutch all year and in his first ever playoffs as well. Has played very solid defense all year and is the club leader. Couldn't have asked for more.
vs.

Ryan Howard .276, 31 hrs, 108. a solid season but by his standards a down year. Unfortunately he's still Ryan Howard so he gets the nod but not in a landslide.

Advantage Phillies. Now even.

Left Field:

Pat Burrell .266, 18 hrs, 57rbi in just 289 abs. Pat Burrell has been nothing short of spectacular from the moment his got to san francisco. His ability to hit the big three run homer has been so consistent. Remember the half year Ryan Howard had to win the rookie of the year? That's what he's done in his half year with the Giants. He's been unbelieveable. Clutch homers. Late homers. You guys know all about it.
vs
Raul Ibanez .275,16hrs, 83rbi. A down year for Ibanez. Unfortunately tho Ibanez is solid. you gotta take Burrell right now.

Advantage Giants +1

Centerfield

Andres Torres. .268, 16hr, 8 3bs, 43 2bs, 63rbi, 26sb, .347obp, .479slg, 507abs. Has been a huge success this year in the leadoff hole. Has been able to get on base, hit for power, in the clutch and distract pitchers with his stealing ability. speedy and solid defense with a good arm.

vs.

Shane Victorino .259, 18 hrs, 10 3bs, 26 2bs, 68rbi, 34sbs, .327 obp, 587 abs
These guys are virtually the same guy, though Torres has slightly better stats considering his at bats and drives the ball for extra bases a little better than Victorino. Victorino is proven and tested in the playoffs.

This is a wash. giants plus 1 still

right field

Cody Ross .269, 14hrs, 65 rbi. The happy go lucky guy has been unfazed by pressure in the playoffs and stretch drive with huge late homers to take the starting job away from Aaron rowand who had mighty struggles this year.

vs
Jason Werth. .296, 27hrs, 85rbi. The clear favorite.

advantage Phillies Team wash again

Phils starting pitching 
vs
Giants starting pitching

Giants had better team era but in more pitcher friendly park so a wash.

Giants Bullpen
vs
Phillies Bullpen

Advantage Giants bullpen because of Brian Wilson alone.

That's why I have an overall plus one for the Giants. so if it's that close, it's anybody's game baby


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> and why do you hate Texas Paulie?



I don't.  I said if the Giants beat us I'll root for them UNLESS Texas is there.

I like the Rangers a lot.  I don't think there's a more deserving player of a ring than Hamilton.

Oh, and Halladay won't be pitching game 4.  We're going with a 4-man.  It would be Blanton.

You make too many predictions.  That's what gets hearts broken.  I got my WS in 2008, and if we don't win it won't hurt like it did before that.

You, on the other hand, are dying for one, I'm sure.  Just when you think you've got the whole series figured out, it can blow up in your face.

This whole "past ownage" thing doesn't mean crap.  Nothing is guaranteed.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Man I cant believe that batter waved that runner home.That is his own ballpark.He should know too well that the ball would have bounced back to Posada like it did.I just knew that mistake would come back and cost them the game.His teammates should all have beat the shit out of him after the game.I dont give the rangers a prayer of winning this series now.this was a game they had to have.


----------



## Paulie

9/11 inside job said:


> Man I cant believe that batter waved that runner home.That is his own ballpark.He should know too well that the ball would have bounced back to Posada like it did.I just knew that mistake would come back and cost them the game.His teammates should all have beat the shit out of him after the game.I dont give the rangers a prayer of winning this series now.this was a game they had to have.



That play was WAY less influential in the final score than when CJ Wilson hesitated breaking for 1st to cover on that Gardner grounder.

Or when Michael Young tried scooping that hot shot from A-rod to his side, instead of getting in front of it.  A fucking major league third baseman in a playoff game and he doesn't put his body in front of the ball.

Those were actual fuck-ups that gave away runs.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Paulie said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man I cant believe that batter waved that runner home.That is his own ballpark.He should know too well that the ball would have bounced back to Posada like it did.I just knew that mistake would come back and cost them the game.His teammates should all have beat the shit out of him after the game.I dont give the rangers a prayer of winning this series now.this was a game they had to have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That play was WAY less influential in the final score than when CJ Wilson hesitated breaking for 1st to cover on that Gardner grounder.
> 
> Or when Michael Young tried scooping that hot shot from A-rod to his side, instead of getting in front of it.  A fucking major league third baseman in a playoff game and he doesn't put his body in front of the ball.
> 
> Those were actual fuck-ups that gave away runs.
Click to expand...


yeah I knew it was a screwup there,that shoud have been a routine out and i could not believe it either that Young was such a coward that he wouldnt put his body in front of it like A-rod was willing to do when one was hit at him.

Man this is the playoffs.they always taught us in little league put your body in front of the ball so you can knock it down if it takes a bad hop. those fuck ups hurt them no doubt, but getting tagged out was the turning point.

You have GOT to capitalize and take advantage of a great opportunity right there.unless the rangers somehow turn it around and get a three to one lead,i wont watch the rest of this series. Thats why I wanted the rays to win because this team blew the chance to sweep that series when they were up two nothing.The Rays gave the yankees more problems in the regular season.they would not have made those kind of mistakes.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Game 1 went as swimmingly as possbible. Getting ready to watch game 2


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Game 1 went as swimmingly as possbible. Getting ready to watch game 2



So much for Sanchez's ownage of Philly.

You guys would be offensively bankrupt without Ross.  You're going to need more contribution than that if you want to win this series.  He hit 8th and 6th in the lineup, and every homer so far has been a solo.

I'm not gonna talk too much shit, because it's still early as hell, but you guys are in some trouble if this is all the offense you can muster.  Howard's swinging the bat great right now whether it's lefties or righties.  It's only a matter of time before he gets a hold of one, and guys are getting on base in front of him.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Game 1 went as swimmingly as possbible. Getting ready to watch game 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much for Sanchez's ownage of Philly.
> 
> You guys would be offensively bankrupt without Ross.  You're going to need more contribution than that if you want to win this series.  He hit 8th and 6th in the lineup, and every homer so far has been a solo.
> 
> I'm not gonna talk too much shit, because it's still early as hell, but you guys are in some trouble if this is all the offense you can muster.  Howard's swinging the bat great right now whether it's lefties or righties.  It's only a matter of time before he gets a hold of one, and guys are getting on base in front of him.
Click to expand...


Actually if you paid attention, Sanchez did a great job allowing only 1 earned run in 6 innings. the other scored on an error by Fontenot(who should not be starting over Pablo).

Sanchez did continue to own the Phillies collectively. But of course you are right. Cody Ross can't do it all himself.

Torres is killing us by refusing to put the ball in play and swinging for the fences in the leadoff spot. He's so fast why doesn't he just take a little swing out? Aubrey Huff finally put a good swing on the ball in the ninth but right at Victorino. Gotta get more outta him.

Buster Posey's been solid, either getting a walk or a hit or getting robbed by Victorino, but no ones on base in front of him. 
A couple managerial mistakes in this game were #1 starting Fontenot instead of Pablo Sandoval(who has hit Oswalt well this year and has homerun power). The other was taking out lefty Jeremey Affelt who just struck out Howard, in order to turn Jimmy Rollins to the left side of the plate. I don't care what his numbers are. He's better from the left side of the plate. He's used to hitting left handed more often and is a dangerous hitter. Shoulda kept affelt in and pitched him agains the right handed Rollins.



Bottom line, Oswalt was on his game and there was no beating him last night. I guess you can't continue to own a great pitcher every time.


 and the Giants bullpen has not done it's job. No big deal though. We knew we weren't gonna sweep, so we're happy drawing first blood and heading home for 3 in San Francisco where we are VERY tough to beat. It's a pretty good thing you guys won that game though or there would be early suicides in Philly before the series was even over.

On to the next level of attrition!!!!!!


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Game 1 went as swimmingly as possbible. Getting ready to watch game 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much for Sanchez's ownage of Philly.
> 
> You guys would be offensively bankrupt without Ross.  You're going to need more contribution than that if you want to win this series.  He hit 8th and 6th in the lineup, and every homer so far has been a solo.
> 
> I'm not gonna talk too much shit, because it's still early as hell, but you guys are in some trouble if this is all the offense you can muster.  Howard's swinging the bat great right now whether it's lefties or righties.  It's only a matter of time before he gets a hold of one, and guys are getting on base in front of him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually if you paid attention, Sanchez did a great job allowing only 1 earned run in 6 innings. the other scored on an error by Fontenot(who should not be starting over Pablo).
> 
> Sanchez did continue to own the Phillies collectively. But of course you are right. Cody Ross can't do it all himself.
> 
> Torres is killing us by refusing to put the ball in play and swinging for the fences in the leadoff spot. He's so fast why doesn't he just take a little swing out? Aubrey Huff finally put a good swing on the ball in the ninth but right at Victorino. Gotta get more outta him.
> 
> Buster Posey's been solid, either getting a walk or a hit or getting robbed by Victorino, but no ones on base in front of him.
> A couple managerial mistakes in this game were #1 starting Fontenot instead of Pablo Sandoval(who has hit Oswalt well this year and has homerun power). The other was taking out lefty Jeremey Affelt who just struck out Howard, in order to turn Jimmy Rollins to the left side of the plate. I don't care what his numbers are. He's better from the left side of the plate. He's used to hitting left handed more often and is a dangerous hitter. Shoulda kept affelt in and pitched him agains the right handed Rollins.
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line, Oswalt was on his game and there was no beating him last night. I guess you can't continue to own a great pitcher every time.
> 
> 
> and the Giants bullpen has not done it's job. No big deal though. We knew we weren't gonna sweep, so we're happy drawing first blood and heading home for 3 in San Francisco where we are VERY tough to beat. It's a pretty good thing you guys won that game though or there would be early suicides in Philly before the series was even over.
> 
> On to the next level of attrition!!!!!!
Click to expand...


Unless they changed the scoring on the pop up, it was scored a hit because several players had a shot at it and no one touched it, there wasn't a specific player to charge an error to.  Those runs are earned.  It was a stupid play, but it's still runs.

What gets me, and Buck mentioned this several times last night, is why the fuck is a pitcher barred from just catching that ball?  

Also, his job is to direct traffic.  He just stood there and didn't say a thing.  So he's pretty responsible for those runs no matter how you look at it.

He was wild, but effectively wild as they say.  Werth and Ibanez got themselves out several times with opportunities to pick up runs.  I wouldn't necessarily say Sanchez baffled us.  (I'm not giving you an _inch_ here )

I like Hamels in SF, too.  Bigger park, more room to allow a guy to possibly get a hold of one and not clear the fence.  Sometimes he has a tendency to give up a bomb.  Some of Ross's shots might not have made it out of AT&T.

It's going to be extremely difficult to beat Halladay twice, too.  Meanwhile, Lincecum is due for a loss.

You know you're scared


----------



## Andrew2382

Good thing Brian Cashman didn't pull the trigger on that Cliff Lee deal in July...I don't know where the Yankees would be without Ivan Nova and Eduardo Nunez


----------



## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> Good thing Brian Cashman didn't pull the trigger on that Cliff Lee deal in July...I don't know where the Yankees would be without Ivan Nova and Eduardo Nunez



CC on 3 days or AJ?


----------



## Andrew2382

who the fuck knows, I'd prob throw CC out there on 3 days, Burnett is a head case and hasn't pitched in 5 years it feels like.  This team is just brutal to fucking watch


----------



## Paulie

The only thing though, is that it puts Hughes and Pettite a day ahead on rest as well.

So then the question would become, Hughes on short rest or AJ?


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So much for Sanchez's ownage of Philly.
> 
> You guys would be offensively bankrupt without Ross.  You're going to need more contribution than that if you want to win this series.  He hit 8th and 6th in the lineup, and every homer so far has been a solo.
> 
> I'm not gonna talk too much shit, because it's still early as hell, but you guys are in some trouble if this is all the offense you can muster.  Howard's swinging the bat great right now whether it's lefties or righties.  It's only a matter of time before he gets a hold of one, and guys are getting on base in front of him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually if you paid attention, Sanchez did a great job allowing only 1 earned run in 6 innings. the other scored on an error by Fontenot(who should not be starting over Pablo).
> 
> Sanchez did continue to own the Phillies collectively. But of course you are right. Cody Ross can't do it all himself.
> 
> Torres is killing us by refusing to put the ball in play and swinging for the fences in the leadoff spot. He's so fast why doesn't he just take a little swing out? Aubrey Huff finally put a good swing on the ball in the ninth but right at Victorino. Gotta get more outta him.
> 
> Buster Posey's been solid, either getting a walk or a hit or getting robbed by Victorino, but no ones on base in front of him.
> A couple managerial mistakes in this game were #1 starting Fontenot instead of Pablo Sandoval(who has hit Oswalt well this year and has homerun power). The other was taking out lefty Jeremey Affelt who just struck out Howard, in order to turn Jimmy Rollins to the left side of the plate. I don't care what his numbers are. He's better from the left side of the plate. He's used to hitting left handed more often and is a dangerous hitter. Shoulda kept affelt in and pitched him agains the right handed Rollins.
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line, Oswalt was on his game and there was no beating him last night. I guess you can't continue to own a great pitcher every time.
> 
> 
> and the Giants bullpen has not done it's job. No big deal though. We knew we weren't gonna sweep, so we're happy drawing first blood and heading home for 3 in San Francisco where we are VERY tough to beat. It's a pretty good thing you guys won that game though or there would be early suicides in Philly before the series was even over.
> 
> On to the next level of attrition!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless they changed the scoring on the pop up, it was scored a hit because several players had a shot at it and no one touched it, there wasn't a specific player to charge an error to.  Those runs are earned.  It was a stupid play, but it's still runs.
> 
> What gets me, and Buck mentioned this several times last night, is why the fuck is a pitcher barred from just catching that ball?
> 
> Also, his job is to direct traffic.  He just stood there and didn't say a thing.  So he's pretty responsible for those runs no matter how you look at it.
> 
> He was wild, but effectively wild as they say.  Werth and Ibanez got themselves out several times with opportunities to pick up runs.  I wouldn't necessarily say Sanchez baffled us.  (I'm not giving you an _inch_ here )
> 
> I like Hamels in SF, too.  Bigger park, more room to allow a guy to possibly get a hold of one and not clear the fence.  Sometimes he has a tendency to give up a bomb.  Some of Ross's shots might not have made it out of AT&T.
> 
> It's going to be extremely difficult to beat Halladay twice, too.  Meanwhile, Lincecum is due for a loss.
> 
> You know you're scared
Click to expand...


Lincecum's not due for a loss. He already had some shakiness in Philly and with 5 days rest, he'll be back to normal at at&t park. But that's 2 starts from now. It's all about Matt Cain tonight. I trust him with my life. He's a true stud. The Giants will be thrilled to see Hamels and Blanton opposite Cain and Bumgarner, two very hot pitchers. 

No Sanchez didn't dominate but he was fine. The blame was ultimately the offense getting pwned by Oswalt, another stud.

If you hadn't noticed though, of course you guys are all asleep when we're playing our games, The Giants only had 4 less homers all year than the Phils. So the offense isn't as terrible as all the ignorant east coast "experts" realize. This series has gone exactly the way our entire season has gone:
Win 1 or 2 low scoring 1 run games. lay an egg and get shut out, then have 1 game per series with an offensive explosion. 

The Giants are due for the explosion. I think Hamels will lay an egg and will give up 2 runs in the first. It will be all over and the Giants win this game 7-2.

No not scared even if you win the next 2 games. because our pitching staff can do the same thing to your offense any time. It is likely we'll see a 7 game series.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually if you paid attention, Sanchez did a great job allowing only 1 earned run in 6 innings. the other scored on an error by Fontenot(who should not be starting over Pablo).
> 
> Sanchez did continue to own the Phillies collectively. But of course you are right. Cody Ross can't do it all himself.
> 
> Torres is killing us by refusing to put the ball in play and swinging for the fences in the leadoff spot. He's so fast why doesn't he just take a little swing out? Aubrey Huff finally put a good swing on the ball in the ninth but right at Victorino. Gotta get more outta him.
> 
> Buster Posey's been solid, either getting a walk or a hit or getting robbed by Victorino, but no ones on base in front of him.
> A couple managerial mistakes in this game were #1 starting Fontenot instead of Pablo Sandoval(who has hit Oswalt well this year and has homerun power). The other was taking out lefty Jeremey Affelt who just struck out Howard, in order to turn Jimmy Rollins to the left side of the plate. I don't care what his numbers are. He's better from the left side of the plate. He's used to hitting left handed more often and is a dangerous hitter. Shoulda kept affelt in and pitched him agains the right handed Rollins.
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line, Oswalt was on his game and there was no beating him last night. I guess you can't continue to own a great pitcher every time.
> 
> 
> and the Giants bullpen has not done it's job. No big deal though. We knew we weren't gonna sweep, so we're happy drawing first blood and heading home for 3 in San Francisco where we are VERY tough to beat. It's a pretty good thing you guys won that game though or there would be early suicides in Philly before the series was even over.
> 
> On to the next level of attrition!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless they changed the scoring on the pop up, it was scored a hit because several players had a shot at it and no one touched it, there wasn't a specific player to charge an error to.  Those runs are earned.  It was a stupid play, but it's still runs.
> 
> What gets me, and Buck mentioned this several times last night, is why the fuck is a pitcher barred from just catching that ball?
> 
> Also, his job is to direct traffic.  He just stood there and didn't say a thing.  So he's pretty responsible for those runs no matter how you look at it.
> 
> He was wild, but effectively wild as they say.  Werth and Ibanez got themselves out several times with opportunities to pick up runs.  I wouldn't necessarily say Sanchez baffled us.  (I'm not giving you an _inch_ here )
> 
> I like Hamels in SF, too.  Bigger park, more room to allow a guy to possibly get a hold of one and not clear the fence.  Sometimes he has a tendency to give up a bomb.  Some of Ross's shots might not have made it out of AT&T.
> 
> It's going to be extremely difficult to beat Halladay twice, too.  Meanwhile, Lincecum is due for a loss.
> 
> You know you're scared
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lincecum's not due for a loss. He already had some shakiness in Philly and with 5 days rest, he'll be back to normal at at&t park. But that's 2 starts from now. It's all about Matt Cain tonight. I trust him with my life. He's a true stud. The Giants will be thrilled to see Hamels and Blanton opposite Cain and Bumgarner, two very hot pitchers.
> 
> No Sanchez didn't dominate but he was fine. The blame was ultimately the offense getting pwned by Oswalt, another stud.
> 
> If you hadn't noticed though, of course you guys are all asleep when we're playing our games, The Giants only had 4 less homers all year than the Phils. So the offense isn't as terrible as all the ignorant east coast "experts" realize. This series has gone exactly the way our entire season has gone:
> Win 1 or 2 low scoring 1 run games. lay an egg and get shut out, then have 1 game per series with an offensive explosion.
> 
> The Giants are due for the explosion. I think Hamels will lay an egg and will give up 2 runs in the first. It will be all over and the Giants win this game 7-2.
> 
> No not scared even if you win the next 2 games. because our pitching staff can do the same thing to your offense any time. It is likely we'll see a 7 game series.
Click to expand...


You trust Cain with your life?  The same Cain you were ready to sell out for one measly bat last year?


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless they changed the scoring on the pop up, it was scored a hit because several players had a shot at it and no one touched it, there wasn't a specific player to charge an error to.  Those runs are earned.  It was a stupid play, but it's still runs.
> 
> What gets me, and Buck mentioned this several times last night, is why the fuck is a pitcher barred from just catching that ball?
> 
> Also, his job is to direct traffic.  He just stood there and didn't say a thing.  So he's pretty responsible for those runs no matter how you look at it.
> 
> He was wild, but effectively wild as they say.  Werth and Ibanez got themselves out several times with opportunities to pick up runs.  I wouldn't necessarily say Sanchez baffled us.  (I'm not giving you an _inch_ here )
> 
> I like Hamels in SF, too.  Bigger park, more room to allow a guy to possibly get a hold of one and not clear the fence.  Sometimes he has a tendency to give up a bomb.  Some of Ross's shots might not have made it out of AT&T.
> 
> It's going to be extremely difficult to beat Halladay twice, too.  Meanwhile, Lincecum is due for a loss.
> 
> You know you're scared
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lincecum's not due for a loss. He already had some shakiness in Philly and with 5 days rest, he'll be back to normal at at&t park. But that's 2 starts from now. It's all about Matt Cain tonight. I trust him with my life. He's a true stud. The Giants will be thrilled to see Hamels and Blanton opposite Cain and Bumgarner, two very hot pitchers.
> 
> No Sanchez didn't dominate but he was fine. The blame was ultimately the offense getting pwned by Oswalt, another stud.
> 
> If you hadn't noticed though, of course you guys are all asleep when we're playing our games, The Giants only had 4 less homers all year than the Phils. So the offense isn't as terrible as all the ignorant east coast "experts" realize. This series has gone exactly the way our entire season has gone:
> Win 1 or 2 low scoring 1 run games. lay an egg and get shut out, then have 1 game per series with an offensive explosion.
> 
> The Giants are due for the explosion. I think Hamels will lay an egg and will give up 2 runs in the first. It will be all over and the Giants win this game 7-2.
> 
> No not scared even if you win the next 2 games. because our pitching staff can do the same thing to your offense any time. It is likely we'll see a 7 game series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You trust Cain with your life?  The same Cain you were ready to sell out for one measly bat last year?
Click to expand...


Not a measley bat. A Pujols. It doesn't lessen my opinion of him on the mound. Case in point right now he's mowin em down. Good Lord I hope the Giants can hold this one. 2-0 in the bottom of the 5th.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Oh my!!!!! remember what I said about defense being more important than offense at the second base position. The giants are now a plus one with Freddy Sanchez over Chase Utley thus far. Here's hoping it remains that way. A very strong position for the Giants right now. fingers crossed still


----------



## Truthspeaker

Come on Brian Wilson!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Truthspeaker

Huge Game 3 win!!!!!


----------



## Truthspeaker




----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lincecum's not due for a loss. He already had some shakiness in Philly and with 5 days rest, he'll be back to normal at at&t park. But that's 2 starts from now. It's all about Matt Cain tonight. I trust him with my life. He's a true stud. The Giants will be thrilled to see Hamels and Blanton opposite Cain and Bumgarner, two very hot pitchers.
> 
> No Sanchez didn't dominate but he was fine. The blame was ultimately the offense getting pwned by Oswalt, another stud.
> 
> If you hadn't noticed though, of course you guys are all asleep when we're playing our games, The Giants only had 4 less homers all year than the Phils. So the offense isn't as terrible as all the ignorant east coast "experts" realize. This series has gone exactly the way our entire season has gone:
> Win 1 or 2 low scoring 1 run games. lay an egg and get shut out, then have 1 game per series with an offensive explosion.
> 
> The Giants are due for the explosion. I think Hamels will lay an egg and will give up 2 runs in the first. It will be all over and the Giants win this game 7-2.
> 
> No not scared even if you win the next 2 games. because our pitching staff can do the same thing to your offense any time. It is likely we'll see a 7 game series.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You trust Cain with your life?  The same Cain you were ready to sell out for one measly bat last year?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not a measley bat. A Pujols. It doesn't lessen my opinion of him on the mound. Case in point right now he's mowin em down. Good Lord I hope the Giants can hold this one. 2-0 in the bottom of the 5th.
Click to expand...


Dude...I would have taken Pujols being in your lineup today over facing Cain.

Some day you'll realize the virtues of good pitching over good hitting.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Today, it didn't matter who was in the box. Just like when Oswalt pitched against us. if Cain woulda pitched like this versus Oswalt, who knows what woulda happened. Probly an extra inning game.


but I know it's only 1 game. I think win or lose tomorrow will be the most fun to watch when finally a couple of non-elite pitchers will be on the mound. Though I've seen blanton and bumgarner pitch elite level games before, we may finally see some runs scored tomorrow.

A Very interesting matchup with Joe Blanton versus the Rookie Madison Bumgarner. 

The Phillies will show up tomorrow. Will the Giants match it? I view this as a must win for the Giants. They should treat this like game 7, knowing you got Halladay and Oswalt next.

By the way, just so you know, we're all just as shocked as you are about CODY ROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To the point where even we pay him the utmost of compliments by asking the question:    "Who IS that guy?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Andrew2382 said:


> Good thing Brian Cashman didn't pull the trigger on that Cliff Lee deal in July...I don't know where the Yankees would be without Ivan Nova and Eduardo Nunez



Lol.Thank god he didnt get Lee.The Rangers have him for now,but trust me,when his contract runs out,the yankees will snatch him then.They always get the players they want.Money talks.When Johnny Damon was in his last year with The Royals, a fellow Royals fan was talking with me about him saying-small market teams like the royals cant compete with these big market teams.

Look at Damon,they dont have the money to resign him.just watch,he will sign with and hook up with another team,it'll probably be the yankees.Sure enough thats what happened.First he went to red sox and when they couldnt resign him,the yankees having the money,went after him and snatched him.they'll get lee as well eventually down the road.thats a given.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Andrew2382 said:


> who the fuck knows, I'd prob throw CC out there on 3 days, Burnett is a head case and hasn't pitched in 5 years it feels like.  This team is just brutal to fucking watch



totally agree.If I was Girardi,I would go with CC in a second.it would be a no brainer.I would take my chances with Pettit and Hughes on three days rest instead of taking them with Burnett is I were him.


----------



## Andrew2382

season....done


----------



## Truthspeaker

Andrew2382 said:


> season....done



You mean to tell me it's impossible that a superior team, the Yankees, can't win three games in a row? My how you pampered Yankee fans have no fighting spirit. You just expect everybody to lay down and give up the series so the mighty Yankees can get what's owed to them? Jeez Yankee fans put the TITLE in enTITLEd.

Didn't the Red Sox teach you guys anything? and you're not even down 3-0 like they were. Good thing the players don't think like fans. That's why they're players and not fans. The Yankees are better than the Rangers and won't see Cliff Lee again. This series is only over if the players believe it's over. Way to help your team out, way to motivate them with all your negativity. I never thought I'd say this but go Yankees!


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> season....done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean to tell me it's impossible that a superior team, the Yankees, can't win three games in a row? My how you pampered Yankee fans have no fighting spirit. You just expect everybody to lay down and give up the series so the mighty Yankees can get what's owed to them? Jeez Yankee fans put the TITLE in enTITLEd.
> 
> Didn't the Red Sox teach you guys anything? and you're not even down 3-0 like they were. Good thing the players don't think like fans. That's why they're players and not fans. The Yankees are better than the Rangers and won't see Cliff Lee again. This series is only over if the players believe it's over. Way to help your team out, way to motivate them with all your negativity. I never thought I'd say this but go Yankees!
Click to expand...


Dude, Lee pitched game 3.  He'll be available for a potential game 7 with regular rest.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Truthspeaker said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> season....done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean to tell me it's impossible that a superior team, the Yankees, can't win three games in a row? My how you pampered Yankee fans have no fighting spirit. You just expect everybody to lay down and give up the series so the mighty Yankees can get what's owed to them? Jeez Yankee fans put the TITLE in enTITLEd.
> 
> Didn't the Red Sox teach you guys anything? and you're not even down 3-0 like they were. Good thing the players don't think like fans. That's why they're players and not fans. The Yankees are better than the Rangers and won't see Cliff Lee again. This series is only over if the players believe it's over. Way to help your team out, way to motivate them with all your negativity. I never thought I'd say this but go Yankees!
Click to expand...


 well done.funny how he could forget those 94 red sox. with the yankees,I never get relaxed about them not going to the world series even down 3-1,thats nothing for them.In fact Im still worried that tag out at home plate in the home opener will cost them.you cant expect Lee to go out and throw another shutout.Pettit is a pretty damn good pitcher as well and it looks like they will go into texas only down 3-2 the way todays game is going.I would put my money on the yankees before i would ever relax and think the Rangers will make it after their blunders in the opener.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> season....done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean to tell me it's impossible that a superior team, the Yankees, can't win three games in a row? My how you pampered Yankee fans have no fighting spirit. You just expect everybody to lay down and give up the series so the mighty Yankees can get what's owed to them? Jeez Yankee fans put the TITLE in enTITLEd.
> 
> Didn't the Red Sox teach you guys anything? and you're not even down 3-0 like they were. Good thing the players don't think like fans. That's why they're players and not fans. The Yankees are better than the Rangers and won't see Cliff Lee again. This series is only over if the players believe it's over. Way to help your team out, way to motivate them with all your negativity. I never thought I'd say this but go Yankees!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude, Lee pitched game 3.  He'll be available for a potential game 7 with regular rest.
Click to expand...


yeah but like i said,you cant expect him to go out and throw another shutout and Pettit is pretty damn good as well.


----------



## Andrew2382

is it possible?  of course, anything is possible. 

However, I don't like my chances knowing that I have to face Lee and we have to get there with Hughes winning game 6. I fully expected to win today with CC on the mound.

I obviously will still be rooting for them, but if I had to bet, I'm gonna bet season over


----------



## 2Parties

I'm glad the Giants won but I hate Aubrey Huff.


----------



## Truthspeaker

my bad on not being able to see Lee again. but come on, If it gets to a game 7 you have to like the Yankees' chances against Lee with momentum, confidence and the Yankee atmosphere. Yes Lee is great, but he's still beatable. It would be anybody's game if it got to game 7. 


I'm SOOOOO glad they finally put Pablo Sandoval back in his starting position. It's time for him to take his job back. Giants have got some kinda magic right now. Gargantuan pitching matchup again with the rematch of Lincecum Halladay. How awesome is this right now?!!!


----------



## Truthspeaker

2Parties said:


> I'm glad the Giants won but I hate Aubrey Huff.



Aubrey Huff is the man. and he's a freakin great human being as far as I'm concerned. Why don't you like him? Long live the rally thong!!


----------



## Paulie

Nobody talk to me today


----------



## Truthspeaker

I'll give u space Paulie. But by no means is this over. We still have to beat one of your aces to finish it off. I am not jumping the gun at all.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> I'll give u space Paulie. But by no means is this over. We still have to beat one of your aces to finish it off. I am not jumping the gun at all.



Yeah but we have to beat all 3 of yours.

I'm with Andrew.  Season....OVER.


----------



## Truthspeaker

This is too much fun!! I love a good war. Big ups to Philly answering the bell. this was nearly a carbon copy of game one, but the phillies were the giants this time. putting pressure on the defense and Halladay pitching slightly better than lincecum. this time it was the Phillies playing great defense and the Giants playing hackey sack with the baseball. This was a pitching and defense game like game 1. Halladay and Lincecum have been a wash this series. Does Does Oswalt beat Sanchez twice? If so does Cain beat Hamels twice? I have a feeling the answer to this question is yes but I hope not.

Bottom line, Sanchez vs. Oswalt, toss up, Cain vs. Hamels, cain slight edge. It's anybody's game. u guys are in Philly now with the unphriendly conphines. So that's gotta help your chances. 

Here's hopin we wrap it up in 6 but if not. I'd love to see Cain pitch a game 7. I think he's built for that moment


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> This is too much fun!! I love a good war. Big ups to Philly answering the bell. this was nearly a carbon copy of game one, but the phillies were the giants this time. putting pressure on the defense and Halladay pitching slightly better than lincecum. this time it was the Phillies playing great defense and the Giants playing hackey sack with the baseball. This was a pitching and defense game like game 1. Halladay and Lincecum have been a wash this series. Does Does Oswalt beat Sanchez twice? If so does Cain beat Hamels twice? I have a feeling the answer to this question is yes but I hope not.
> 
> Bottom line, Sanchez vs. Oswalt, toss up, Cain vs. Hamels, cain slight edge. It's anybody's game. u guys are in Philly now with the unphriendly conphines. So that's gotta help your chances.
> 
> Here's hopin we wrap it up in 6 but if not. I'd love to see Cain pitch a game 7. I think he's built for that moment



You REEEAAAALLLLLY don't want a game 7 in Philly.  

I'm just sayin.


----------



## elvis

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is too much fun!! I love a good war. Big ups to Philly answering the bell. this was nearly a carbon copy of game one, but the phillies were the giants this time. putting pressure on the defense and Halladay pitching slightly better than lincecum. this time it was the Phillies playing great defense and the Giants playing hackey sack with the baseball. This was a pitching and defense game like game 1. Halladay and Lincecum have been a wash this series. Does Does Oswalt beat Sanchez twice? If so does Cain beat Hamels twice? I have a feeling the answer to this question is yes but I hope not.
> 
> Bottom line, Sanchez vs. Oswalt, toss up, Cain vs. Hamels, cain slight edge. It's anybody's game. u guys are in Philly now with the unphriendly conphines. So that's gotta help your chances.
> 
> Here's hopin we wrap it up in 6 but if not. I'd love to see Cain pitch a game 7. I think he's built for that moment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You REEEAAAALLLLLY don't want a game 7 in Philly.
> 
> I'm just sayin.
Click to expand...

I do.  complete with Rocky theme. but I want Philly to win.


----------



## Paulie

Poor Joe Buck and Tim Mccarver didn't get to head down to the Giants club house and spray champagne with them last night.

They'll have to wait another day to possibly celebrate.


----------



## Andrew2382

Cashman and Girardi need to be exiled to Siberia.


----------



## 2Parties

Nice job Texas.  Hope they take it all.


----------



## Dr.House

Thuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Skankies Lose....

Thuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Skankies Lose....


----------



## Oddball

Paulie said:


> Poor Joe Buck and Tim Mccarver didn't get to head down to the Giants club house and spray champagne with them last night.
> 
> They'll have to wait another day to possibly celebrate.


Ummm...I thought the series was on TBS, not Fox.


----------



## 2Parties

World Series and NLCS are on Fox, everything else is on TBS.


----------



## Oddball

Well...It's in that other league, so I guess I missed it.


----------



## Oddball

Brian Wilson and Mad Dog Vachon...Separated at birth?


----------



## 2Parties

2Parties said:


> 2010 World Series:  Rangers vs Giants



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

These are the teams I wanted.


----------



## Andrew2382

good game, at least the phillies put up a fight unlike my gutless sack of shit team.

I am also guessing  Bochy didn't sniff the first base line in celebration like Washington when the Rangers won


----------



## Oddball

Andrew2382 said:


> good game, at least the phillies put up a fight unlike my gutless sack of shit team.


What?...I didn't know you're a Twins fan.


----------



## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> I am also guessing  Bochy didn't sniff the first base line in celebration like Washington when the Rangers won



Eh, Washington's seen fatter rails than that on his coffee table


----------



## Andrew2382

recipe for a title?

claim bankruptcy and sign cliff lee!


----------



## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> recipe for a title?
> 
> claim bankruptcy and sign cliff lee!



Yeah and maybe they can fill their left field need with Jayson Werth this offseason too.

They can fucking have that bastard as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Andrew2382

whats your thoughts on howard at the moment?


----------



## Paulie

25 mil for 0 rbi's and looking at strike 3?

I'm ecstatic!


----------



## Andrew2382

kinda sounds like arod! lol


----------



## Oddball

Andrew2382 said:


> whats your thoughts on howard at the moment?


I've watched pitches go by in that situation, in the box.

It's not in your wheelhouse, you can't react quickly enough to chip it off foul , so you hope you get the call that never comes.

I'm here to tell you...It sucks, man.


----------



## Paulie

3.5 months til pitchers and catchers.

Eagles are winning right now in the face of adversity, so I guess I have SOMETHING.

But I'm a Rex Ryan fan, I like the Jets these days.  I'm pulling for you guys.


----------



## Andrew2382

yeah, I never thought I'd ever say the words "at least I have the Jets"...my god the end of the world can't be far if this is the case.

Jets are looking good so far but I don't keep my hopes up with this team, too many disappointment. Steelers are the team that scare me the most


----------



## Paulie

Oddball said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> whats your thoughts on howard at the moment?
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched pitches go by in that situation, in the box.
> 
> It's not in your wheelhouse, you can't react quickly enough to chip it off foul and you hope you get the call that never comes.
> 
> I'm here to tell you...It sucks, man.
Click to expand...


You don't take a pitch that close with 2 strikes.  Wilson lives and dies by the heater, you already know it's coming.

Howard flinches at just about every other pitch he's ever seen in his major league career, but he watches that one go by without even contemplating it.

The moment was obviously too big for him.


----------



## Paulie

I gotta get some sleep.  

Day 2 of my prep course seminar tomorrow morning for the police test, andrew.

I test next month.  I'm gonna ace this mother fucker.  But I'm probably going to languish on the list forever while NJ figures out the budgets and starts to hire again.

Later guys.


----------



## Oddball

Paulie said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> whats your thoughts on howard at the moment?
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched pitches go by in that situation, in the box.
> 
> It's not in your wheelhouse, you can't react quickly enough to chip it off foul and you hope you get the call that never comes.
> 
> I'm here to tell you...It sucks, man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't take a pitch that close with 2 strikes.  Wilson lives and dies by the heater, you already know it's coming.
> 
> Howard flinches at just about every other pitch he's ever seen in his major league career, but he watches that one go by without even contemplating it.
> 
> The moment was obviously too big for him.
Click to expand...

That pitch was a cutter --and a damned good one at that-- not a Brand X fastball.

I'm tellin' ya...You can't get the bat around to even get a piece of it.

It looks like it's going to hit you in the thigh, then slides back.

That's a product of superior scouting.


----------



## Andrew2382

nice bro! you'll make it bro.  Just get a good score and get your self high on that list of eligibility.  There are departments here in S. Florida hiring also, message me if you want more info


----------



## Truthspeaker

Andrew2382 said:


> good game, at least the phillies put up a fight unlike my gutless sack of shit team.
> 
> I am also guessing  Bochy didn't sniff the first base line in celebration like Washington when the Rangers won



Now that was funny


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> recipe for a title?
> 
> claim bankruptcy and sign cliff lee!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and maybe they can fill their left field need with Jayson Werth this offseason too.
> 
> They can fucking have that bastard as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...


You're kidding right, Jayson Werth played well in the season and in the playoffs. it seemed like he was the only guy who got any big hits. Plus he was solid defensively. The Giants could use him. Are u crazy? 

The guy you should be dismembering is Raul Ibanez. That guy completely phoned in the series. He made one good defensive play, one bad one and couldn't have hit a beach ball on a tee during this series.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Oddball said:


> Well...It's in that other league, so I guess I missed it.



that other league had the two top teams in baseball this year.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> 25 mil for 0 rbi's and looking at strike 3?
> 
> I'm ecstatic!



yeah i didn't understand it. you gotta expand the zone 4 inches off the plate in that situation. u just gotta swing.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Oddball said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> whats your thoughts on howard at the moment?
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched pitches go by in that situation, in the box.
> 
> It's not in your wheelhouse, you can't react quickly enough to chip it off foul , so you hope you get the call that never comes.
> 
> I'm here to tell you...It sucks, man.
Click to expand...


You gotta make your mind up that you're going down swinging.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Andrew2382 said:


> yeah, I never thought I'd ever say the words "at least I have the Jets"...my god the end of the world can't be far if this is the case.
> 
> Jets are looking good so far but I don't keep my hopes up with this team, too many disappointment. Steelers are the team that scare me the most



Well it's a damn good thing I have the Giants cuz the piss poor niners suck the hole of an ass. They are literally trying to lose. but of course even if you part the red sea for the raiders running backs, they still can't get through it. they failed in their attempt to go "all-defeated" to the raiders but I'm sure they'll succeed against the rest of the league. 

Damn it feels good to still be watching baseball. Glad part of the series is in texas too where the weather will be nice. Giants in 5 games. Matt Cain will beat Cliff Lee in game one. The man is beatable. Cliff Lee is not God.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> recipe for a title?
> 
> claim bankruptcy and sign cliff lee!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and maybe they can fill their left field need with Jayson Werth this offseason too.
> 
> They can fucking have that bastard as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're kidding right, Jayson Werth played well in the season and in the playoffs. it seemed like he was the only guy who got any big hits. Plus he was solid defensively. The Giants could use him. Are u crazy?
> 
> The guy you should be dismembering is Raul Ibanez. That guy completely phoned in the series. He made one good defensive play, one bad one and couldn't have hit a beach ball on a tee during this series.
Click to expand...


I'm not so much ragging on his production as I am his attitude.  He's got a chip on his shoulder and he's just fucking selfish.  He never catches a fly ball with 2 hands, while every other player on the team does.  The fans wanted a curtain call a little while back after a bomb, and he never came out for it.

I don't like players like that.  Dominic Brown has all the potential to be Jayson Werth, and MORE.  

Someone is going to HIGHLY overpay for Werth too, and I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off about it.

Anyway, congrats on a tough series.  I wish I could say I'm rooting for you, but I gotta see my man Hamilton get a much deserved ring.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

yahoo!!! The Spankees miss the world series.That so much makes my year.The Spankees always have it easy in the opening round against the twinkees.That organization is a joke.They only win the division every year because that division is so weak and pathetic.they should have to play a REAL baseball team during the opening round instead of those pushover twinkees qll the time.

what really sucks though is USA TODAY is already talking about if the yankees will make a serious run at Cliff Lee or not next year.I was surprised to hear the broadcasters say they will have a really greeat pitching staff IF they bring back Lee next year.IF? thats not very encouraging.

The Yankees will get him.they always get whoever they want. I remember when the last year Johnny Damon was with the royals a fellow royals fan was debating with me on who has a better chance of going to the world series or the superbowl in the future,the royals or the chiefs.He made a good point that  the chiefs do much better cause in the NFL,you have revenue sharing.Because of that,everybody is playing on the same level playing field.If there wasnt revenue sharing in the NFL,no way in hell would teams like the steelers,rams or packers be able to compete or have a chance because they wouldnt have any money to spend to keep good quality players.

He correctly called it that Johnny Damon would wind up with the yankees eventually.He said back then,he'll go off and sign with some big market team,it'll probably be the yankees.Well sure enough,he called it.He first went off and signed with another big market team with a high payroll the red sox and then they could not keep him anymore so he became a yankee cause they "COULD" afford to sigh him.just like they are the only team out there who is able to afford A-rod.

its not a fair level playing field for these small market teams like the royals,twins and pirates because they cant afford to develop and keep good quality players like Derek Jeeter.The Tampa Bay Devil Rays are already saying they probably wont be able to keep one of their high quality players who was a major impact on them to get to the playoffs and win the division this year.


----------



## Andrew2382

2009 Owners Worth  + Baseball Payrolls: 

Nationals - Theodore Lerner (3.2 Billion)   Payroll 2009: 59.3 million (27th in MLB) 
Reds: Carl Linder (1.4 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 70.9 million (20th in MLB) 
Athletics: John Fisher (1.2 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 62.3 million (26th in MLB) 
Rangers: Tom Hicks (1 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 68.7 million (22nd in MLB) 

last I checked the Steinbrenners are not the wealthiest owners in the game....don't hate the Yankees because they are one of the few franchises that invests in their own product instead of pocketing the money.

Lets not forget the Forbes article that pointed out the Marlins were the most profitable team a few years back and they RAPED the city of miami for a stadium


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and maybe they can fill their left field need with Jayson Werth this offseason too.
> 
> They can fucking have that bastard as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding right, Jayson Werth played well in the season and in the playoffs. it seemed like he was the only guy who got any big hits. Plus he was solid defensively. The Giants could use him. Are u crazy?
> 
> The guy you should be dismembering is Raul Ibanez. That guy completely phoned in the series. He made one good defensive play, one bad one and couldn't have hit a beach ball on a tee during this series.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not so much ragging on his production as I am his attitude.  He's got a chip on his shoulder and he's just fucking selfish.  He never catches a fly ball with 2 hands, while every other player on the team does.  The fans wanted a curtain call a little while back after a bomb, and he never came out for it.
> 
> I don't like players like that.  Dominic Brown has all the potential to be Jayson Werth, and MORE.
> 
> Someone is going to HIGHLY overpay for Werth too, and I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off about it.
> 
> Anyway, congrats on a tough series.  I wish I could say I'm rooting for you, but I gotta see my man Hamilton get a much deserved ring.
Click to expand...


You see him on a more regular basis than I do but it would have been wrong for him to come out for a curtain call during that game in game 1 because they were losing and it was a close ballgame. That's why I wouldn't take a curtain call in that situation. I would absolutely take the curtain call if it was late and tied or put the team ahead, if it was a grand slam or if it was the second homer of the day and the game was at least tied. But not in the 3rd inning and you're still down 2 runs. 

btw, Werth bears a striking resemblance to Chester Cheetah.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Do they still play the World Series after the Yankees bust out or do they just pick a team out of a hat?

Has anyone actually watched a World Series without the Yankees in it?


----------



## Truthspeaker

CrusaderFrank said:


> Do they still play the World Series after the Yankees bust out or do they just pick a team out of a hat?
> 
> Has anyone actually watched a World Series without the Yankees in it?



Yeah people who aren't just casual fans who actually care about baseball always watch the world series. There's plenty of us out there.


----------



## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> 2009 Owners Worth  + Baseball Payrolls:
> 
> Nationals - Theodore Lerner (3.2 Billion)   Payroll 2009: 59.3 million (27th in MLB)
> Reds: Carl Linder (1.4 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 70.9 million (20th in MLB)
> Athletics: John Fisher (1.2 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 62.3 million (26th in MLB)
> Rangers: Tom Hicks (1 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 68.7 million (22nd in MLB)
> 
> last I checked the Steinbrenners are not the wealthiest owners in the game....don't hate the Yankees because they are one of the few franchises that invests in their own product instead of pocketing the money.
> 
> Lets not forget the Forbes article that pointed out the Marlins were the most profitable team a few years back and they RAPED the city of miami for a stadium



Lets not forget about teams like the Pirates whose payroll about matches what they receive in revenue sharing ALONE.

Gee, I wonder where the rest of the revenue is going?  I just have _no_ fucking idea where


----------



## Paulie

Andrew2382 said:


> good game, at least the phillies put up a fight unlike my gutless sack of shit team.
> 
> *I am also guessing  Bochy didn't sniff the first base line* in celebration like Washington when the Rangers won



That's why they moved Hamilton out to center


----------



## Andrew2382

dear cliff lee


you aren't wearing pinstripes yet, you aren't suppose to be dissapointing


----------



## Paulie

Dude was due at this point.


----------



## Truthspeaker

He was sooooo due to give up a bad outing. You can't keep pitching 0.79 era against any team. He missed his spots and the Giants made him pay. Giants played defense if they finally didn't pitch that great but it's about the time the offense bailed out the pitching for once. UUUUUUUU-REEEEEEEBAAAAAAY!!!!!!
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/photogallery/post_season/year_2010/month_10/day_27/cf15863240.html


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Andrew2382 said:


> 2009 Owners Worth  + Baseball Payrolls:
> 
> Nationals - Theodore Lerner (3.2 Billion)   Payroll 2009: 59.3 million (27th in MLB)
> Reds: Carl Linder (1.4 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 70.9 million (20th in MLB)
> Athletics: John Fisher (1.2 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 62.3 million (26th in MLB)
> Rangers: Tom Hicks (1 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 68.7 million (22nd in MLB)
> 
> last I checked the Steinbrenners are not the wealthiest owners in the game....don't hate the Yankees because they are one of the few franchises that invests in their own product instead of pocketing the money.
> 
> Lets not forget the Forbes article that pointed out the Marlins were the most profitable team a few years back and they RAPED the city of miami for a stadium



I will stop hating the yankees when those fucking steinbrenners stop being greedy and selfish and encourage revenue sharing and getting rid of free agency.The second highest salaried team the red sox dont even come close to the payroll the yankees have.
2010 Baseball Team Payrolls - Total and Average Salaries for Major League Baseball Players

AGAIN,something you yankee apologists always ignore is the yankees are the ONLY team that can afford to keep a-rod at his salary he has.A few years ago when he was struggling in the playoffs against the indians and he was voicing how he would like to be traded because of how the fans were getting on him,the announcers themselves came on and said the yankees are the only team who could afford to sign him. AGAIN teams like the royals cannot afford to develop a player such as Johnny Damon and keep him because of payrolls.They dont have the luxary of developing and keeping players like Derek Jeeter like the yankees do. The Rangers have done an outstanding job of getting to the series on a low payroll but look for free agency to break up those players in the next couple of  years because they dont have the payroll to keep them.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Paulie said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 Owners Worth  + Baseball Payrolls:
> 
> Nationals - Theodore Lerner (3.2 Billion)   Payroll 2009: 59.3 million (27th in MLB)
> Reds: Carl Linder (1.4 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 70.9 million (20th in MLB)
> Athletics: John Fisher (1.2 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 62.3 million (26th in MLB)
> Rangers: Tom Hicks (1 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 68.7 million (22nd in MLB)
> 
> last I checked the Steinbrenners are not the wealthiest owners in the game....don't hate the Yankees because they are one of the few franchises that invests in their own product instead of pocketing the money.
> 
> Lets not forget the Forbes article that pointed out the Marlins were the most profitable team a few years back and they RAPED the city of miami for a stadium
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets not forget about teams like the Pirates whose payroll about matches what they receive in revenue sharing ALONE.
> 
> Gee, I wonder where the rest of the revenue is going?  I just have _no_ fucking idea where
Click to expand...


good point.Lets also not forget that A-rods salary almost matches the ENTIRE salary for the pirates team.Like i said before,if the NFL had to go the same way major league baseball does,no way in hell would teams like the packers,steelers or rams be able to compete or have a chance at making the playoffs every year.

expect Cliff Lee to be a yankee next year everybody.This guy has no loyalty to his team or the fans.He left the indians to go play for the Phillies for the money,then the phillies for the rangers for the money,the guy only plays the game for the love of the money.Its a given he will be with the yankees next year.He was teammates with Sabathia when they played for The Indians.The only thing that might stop him is if his wife stands up to him and insist that he doesnt go because of how she was spat on and cursed by some yankee fans.Hopefully that will keep him from signing with them,dont count on it though.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Great to see both these teams in the world series this year the Giants and The Rangers since The Giants have never won a world series as the San Francisco Giants before and of course this is the first year The Rangers have made it to the world series so either way,whoever wins,it will be the first time for one of these franchises which will be nice.


----------



## Andrew2382

9/11 inside job said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 Owners Worth  + Baseball Payrolls:
> 
> Nationals - Theodore Lerner (3.2 Billion)   Payroll 2009: 59.3 million (27th in MLB)
> Reds: Carl Linder (1.4 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 70.9 million (20th in MLB)
> Athletics: John Fisher (1.2 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 62.3 million (26th in MLB)
> Rangers: Tom Hicks (1 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 68.7 million (22nd in MLB)
> 
> last I checked the Steinbrenners are not the wealthiest owners in the game....don't hate the Yankees because they are one of the few franchises that invests in their own product instead of pocketing the money.
> 
> Lets not forget the Forbes article that pointed out the Marlins were the most profitable team a few years back and they RAPED the city of miami for a stadium
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will stop hating the yankees when those fucking steinbrenners stop being greedy and selfish and encourage revenue sharing and getting rid of free agency.The second highest salaried team the red sox dont even come close to the payroll the yankees have.
> 2010 Baseball Team Payrolls - Total and Average Salaries for Major League Baseball Players
> 
> AGAIN,something you yankee apologists always ignore is the yankees are the ONLY team that can afford to keep a-rod at his salary he has.A few years ago when he was struggling in the playoffs against the indians and he was voicing how he would like to be traded because of how the fans were getting on him,the announcers themselves came on and said the yankees are the only team who could afford to sign him. AGAIN teams like the royals cannot afford to develop a player such as Johnny Damon and keep him because of payrolls.They dont have the luxary of developing and keeping players like Derek Jeeter like the yankees do. The Rangers have done an outstanding job of getting to the series on a low payroll but look for free agency to break up those players in the next couple of  years because they dont have the payroll to keep them.
Click to expand...



the rangers have done an outstanding job?

are you smoking crack?

they claimed bankruptcy and signed cliff lee...how is that fiscally responsible?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Andrew2382 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2009 Owners Worth  + Baseball Payrolls:
> 
> Nationals - Theodore Lerner (3.2 Billion)   Payroll 2009: 59.3 million (27th in MLB)
> Reds: Carl Linder (1.4 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 70.9 million (20th in MLB)
> Athletics: John Fisher (1.2 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 62.3 million (26th in MLB)
> Rangers: Tom Hicks (1 Billion)  Payroll 2009: 68.7 million (22nd in MLB)
> 
> last I checked the Steinbrenners are not the wealthiest owners in the game....don't hate the Yankees because they are one of the few franchises that invests in their own product instead of pocketing the money.
> 
> Lets not forget the Forbes article that pointed out the Marlins were the most profitable team a few years back and they RAPED the city of miami for a stadium
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will stop hating the yankees when those fucking steinbrenners stop being greedy and selfish and encourage revenue sharing and getting rid of free agency.The second highest salaried team the red sox dont even come close to the payroll the yankees have.
> 2010 Baseball Team Payrolls - Total and Average Salaries for Major League Baseball Players
> 
> AGAIN,something you yankee apologists always ignore is the yankees are the ONLY team that can afford to keep a-rod at his salary he has.A few years ago when he was struggling in the playoffs against the indians and he was voicing how he would like to be traded because of how the fans were getting on him,the announcers themselves came on and said the yankees are the only team who could afford to sign him. AGAIN teams like the royals cannot afford to develop a player such as Johnny Damon and keep him because of payrolls.They dont have the luxary of developing and keeping players like Derek Jeeter like the yankees do. The Rangers have done an outstanding job of getting to the series on a low payroll but look for free agency to break up those players in the next couple of  years because they dont have the payroll to keep them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the rangers have done an outstanding job?
> 
> are you smoking crack?
> 
> they claimed bankruptcy and signed cliff lee...how is that fiscally responsible?
Click to expand...


they made it to the world series despite one of the lowest payrolls in the major leagues.I would say thats an outstanding job. it payed off,got them to their first world series ever. again like all yankee apologist do,you avoid the points on how its not fair the way they have it set up in the major leagues unlike it is in the NFL.


----------



## Andrew2382

9/11 inside job said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will stop hating the yankees when those fucking steinbrenners stop being greedy and selfish and encourage revenue sharing and getting rid of free agency.The second highest salaried team the red sox dont even come close to the payroll the yankees have.
> 2010 Baseball Team Payrolls - Total and Average Salaries for Major League Baseball Players
> 
> AGAIN,something you yankee apologists always ignore is the yankees are the ONLY team that can afford to keep a-rod at his salary he has.A few years ago when he was struggling in the playoffs against the indians and he was voicing how he would like to be traded because of how the fans were getting on him,the announcers themselves came on and said the yankees are the only team who could afford to sign him. AGAIN teams like the royals cannot afford to develop a player such as Johnny Damon and keep him because of payrolls.They dont have the luxary of developing and keeping players like Derek Jeeter like the yankees do. The Rangers have done an outstanding job of getting to the series on a low payroll but look for free agency to break up those players in the next couple of  years because they dont have the payroll to keep them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the rangers have done an outstanding job?
> 
> are you smoking crack?
> 
> they claimed bankruptcy and signed cliff lee...how is that fiscally responsible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they made it to the world series despite one of the lowest payrolls in the major leagues.I would say thats an outstanding job. it payed off,got them to their first world series ever. again like all yankee apologist do,you avoid the points on how its not fair the way they have it set up in the major leagues unlike it is in the NFL.
Click to expand...


You talk about avoiding points yet you totally disregarded the fact that the rangers FILED BANKRUPTCY, then proceeded to sign Cliff Lee.  

The Yankees play by the rules, do you hear the Pirates, Marlins, and Royals cry woe is me when they recieves their millions from Revenue sharing?

Also, i don't know if you have noticed but Major League Baseball in their unfair system has provided just as much if not more diversity in champions then NFL and WAYYYYYY more then the NBA.

The NBA is a joke, it's the same teams over and over again, you go back 30 years and its like 7 teams that have won the championship.

Throughout the past 10 years Baseball has given you many different championship teams from large to small market.


Yankees is a large market in 2000
Diamondback were small in 2001
Angels were a small market when they won it in 2002
Marlins in 2003 were small in 03
Red Sox t in 04
White Sox in 05
Cardnials in 06
Red Sox in 07
Phillies in 08
Yankees in 09
Giants or Rangers in 2010

Thats pretty god damn diverse if you ask me, and mixed with small market clubs and large.

Not to mention you had very small payroll teams in the playoffs such as the oakland A's, Twins, Marlins, Padres etc...


NFL in the past 10 years you had the Patriots appear in 4 of those superbowls winning 3 of them...The Colts in one and always in the playoffs year in and year out, winning 1 superbowl and losing another.  

Steelers winning 2 superbowls.

so please spare me, Major League baseball I will argue has provided more diversity in champions ranging from large and small market teams then the NFL has


----------



## Truthspeaker

Rangers are in big trouble. And what if the Giants keep hitting?


----------



## Paulie

Dude...

You were 1 out away from a potential nail biter of a 9th, and then the Rangers bullpen collapsed and walked the whole ball park.

That win was handed to you.  CJ did his job, but Cain was just a little better.  

Speaking of Cain, too bad you didn't have Albert Pujols so far in the playoffs instead of Cain, huh?  Maybe then, you guys might have made it to the world series.


----------



## Andrew2382

pfft

hitting over pitching paulie....don't you know this?


----------



## Andrew2382

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sports/72963-the-2009-baseball-season-thread-59.html#post1432197

ahhh memories

"I wouldn't take Howard because he strikes out too much. It would need to be a Prince Fielder or Albert Pujols."

"The Giants are the exception to the "don't trade aces" rule."


----------



## Truthspeaker

Last year I would have done it and if the offense was as terrible as last year I'd still do it. But this year the offense is a full run per game better than last year so it makes no sense to trade pitching for hitting. 
Ah yes memories...

Speaking of which i'm close to winning a $500 dollar bet that an A's fan made with me over the series. He told me I must be an idiot for betting on the Giants over the Rangers. He said "You must not watch baseball. You ain't seen Rangers hitting before and their pitching will shut you down."
What a sucker!!!
Easy money so far. 
So basically he's telling me the Rangers offense and pitching are both better than the Phillies. I might say slightly better this year on offense but not even close on pitching. Cliff Lee my ass!!!


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Dude...
> 
> You were 1 out away from a potential nail biter of a 9th, and then the Rangers bullpen collapsed and walked the whole ball park.
> 
> That win was handed to you.  CJ did his job, but Cain was just a little better.
> 
> Speaking of Cain, too bad you didn't have Albert Pujols so far in the playoffs instead of Cain, huh?  Maybe then, you guys might have made it to the world series.



No doubt CJ did a superb job. But that's part of the world series. somebody's gonna get deer in the headlights syndrome and it turned out to be the Rangers bullpen. Can't blame the Giants for punishing Rangers mistakes after taking their walks. I declared instant victory when Ron Washington left that guy in after walking two batters on 8 pitches. Bad managing and bad pitching.
Aside from Sanchez's mental breakdown in Philly last start he's been very big in big games and I guarantee he'll be ready to pitch tonight in texas.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude...
> 
> You were 1 out away from a potential nail biter of a 9th, and then the Rangers bullpen collapsed and walked the whole ball park.
> 
> That win was handed to you.  CJ did his job, but Cain was just a little better.
> 
> Speaking of Cain, too bad you didn't have Albert Pujols so far in the playoffs instead of Cain, huh?  Maybe then, you guys might have made it to the world series.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt CJ did a superb job. But that's part of the world series. somebody's gonna get deer in the headlights syndrome and it turned out to be the Rangers bullpen. Can't blame the Giants for punishing Rangers mistakes after taking their walks. I declared instant victory when Ron Washington left that guy in after walking two batters on 8 pitches. Bad managing and bad pitching.
> Aside from Sanchez's mental breakdown in Philly last start he's been very big in big games and I guarantee he'll be ready to pitch tonight in texas.
Click to expand...


I don't know how you can make any guarantees about a guy who walks that many batters.  Walks are runs, bro.

And also, if you had Pujols this year instead of Cain, you might have increased the run production even a little more, but you would have completely given it right back away without Cain's RUN-PREVENTING pitching.

Where would you be right now without his spot during these playoffs?

That's the whole point of the argument...the PLAYOFFS.  All you guys needed to do was sneak in however you could.  After that, all bets were expected to be off.

You guys ain't in the WS right now with Pujols instead of Cain.  You're delusional if you think otherwise.


----------



## Andrew2382

i'm having deja vu


----------



## Paulie

You better hope you win this game 4, truth.

You don't want Cliff Lee tied 2-2 in the series.  

You beat him once, but you know damn well it's going to take a lot of luck for him to be that bad again.  

What the hell is the deal with Cody Ross?  I always thought he was one of the most underrated players in the NL, but has this guy gone 0-for yet in the playoffs???

I haven't looked at the stats, but his slugging % has got to be somewhere in the 8 or 9's.

EDIT:  just checked.  I was off a bit.  .775.   But his NLCS was .950 and his NLDS sucked.  He'd be in the 8's if not for that.


----------



## Article 15

Congrats Giants fan(s)!

I'm guessing Renteria will get the MVP.


----------



## FRAGO 242

Nice win for Giants fans.  My grandpa I'm sure is loving this.  He's been a big Giants fan his whole life.


----------



## Truthspeaker

For the next year, all you east coast biased ass bums can kiss my ass!





Funny thing is, you're dumb asses for the most part will still think east coast baseball is better solely based on the fact that it's east coast. 
Damn it feels good to be a winner finally! Yankees fans, we'll see you and Cliff Lee again next year in the world series. Jayson Werth will probably be a Giant next year. Will be very interesting.


----------



## elvis

yankees/giants will get better ratings.


----------



## Sheldon

That would be a good one. Last Yankees/Giants world series was in 1951, I think. That era had the best teams--Dodgers, Giants, Yankees.


----------



## FRAGO 242

I realized how much I hate the Giants in this World Series for 2 reasons:  Edgar Renteria and Aubrey Huff.

These guys were complete flops and worthless in Detroit.


----------



## elvis

FRAGO 242 said:


> I realized how much I hate the Giants in this World Series for 2 reasons:  Edgar Renteria and Aubrey Huff.
> 
> These guys were complete flops and worthless in Detroit.



Edgar Diarrhea?


----------



## FRAGO 242

no, Gonorrhea.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Well Renteria was worthless for us all year too until he summoned the demons of youth for the world series. I think he'll retire now. It's not gonna get any better than this for him.

Yankees Giants would be awesome because of the history. I wanted the Yankees to come back and beat the rangers but it didn't happen. shucks. they woulda went down too.


----------



## Truthspeaker

And Aubrey Huff was nothing short of "the man" this year. all I know about him was we got 26 jacks, and 86 rbi and clutch all year. All for just 3 million dollars.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> For the next year, all you east coast biased ass bums can kiss my ass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, you're dumb asses for the most part will still think east coast baseball is better solely based on the fact that it's east coast.
> Damn it feels good to be a winner finally! Yankees fans, we'll see you and Cliff Lee again next year in the world series. Jayson Werth will probably be a Giant next year. Will be very interesting.



You're gloating while simultaneously hoping for Jayson Werth?

I hope you bastards waste the same amount of money on him as you did Aaron Rowand 

Word is, he wants Matt Holliday money.

Good Riddance.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the next year, all you east coast biased ass bums can kiss my ass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, you're dumb asses for the most part will still think east coast baseball is better solely based on the fact that it's east coast.
> Damn it feels good to be a winner finally! Yankees fans, we'll see you and Cliff Lee again next year in the world series. Jayson Werth will probably be a Giant next year. Will be very interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're gloating while simultaneously hoping for Jayson Werth?
> 
> I hope you bastards waste the same amount of money on him as you did Aaron Rowand
> 
> Word is, he wants Matt Holliday money.
> 
> Good Riddance.
Click to expand...


Then if that's the case, the Giants will not overpay for Werth. they'll probably offer him in the realm of 8-10 million for 4 years. If he seeks more money, he's not gonna get it unless he goes to the Yankees or Red Sox. He's not that kind of player, especially outside Philly. If that's the case then good riddance before we ever get him. I think he's capable of hitting .300 30 homers and 100 rbi outside Philly, but I sure hope we don't pay him like a 50 homer guy. Adam Dunn is a real Possibility too.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the next year, all you east coast biased ass bums can kiss my ass!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, you're dumb asses for the most part will still think east coast baseball is better solely based on the fact that it's east coast.
> Damn it feels good to be a winner finally! Yankees fans, we'll see you and Cliff Lee again next year in the world series. Jayson Werth will probably be a Giant next year. Will be very interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're gloating while simultaneously hoping for Jayson Werth?
> 
> I hope you bastards waste the same amount of money on him as you did Aaron Rowand
> 
> Word is, he wants Matt Holliday money.
> 
> Good Riddance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then if that's the case, the Giants will not overpay for Werth. they'll probably offer him in the realm of 8-10 million for 4 years. If he seeks more money, he's not gonna get it unless he goes to the Yankees or Red Sox. He's not that kind of player, especially outside Philly. If that's the case then good riddance before we ever get him. I think he's capable of hitting .300 30 homers and 100 rbi outside Philly, but I sure hope we don't pay him like a 50 homer guy. Adam Dunn is a real Possibility too.
Click to expand...


Truth...

His agent is Scott Boras.

Werth WILL get the current market rate for his position and production, which is very similar to Holliday's, who is also a Scott Boras client.

Werth and Holliday are very similar in production, and I would argue that Werth even has some tools that Holliday doesn't.

Holliday got 7/120.  17 mil a year.

Werth will get no less than 15 a year.

If he does, I'll come in here and proclaim that I don't know jack shit about baseball.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're gloating while simultaneously hoping for Jayson Werth?
> 
> I hope you bastards waste the same amount of money on him as you did Aaron Rowand
> 
> Word is, he wants Matt Holliday money.
> 
> Good Riddance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then if that's the case, the Giants will not overpay for Werth. they'll probably offer him in the realm of 8-10 million for 4 years. If he seeks more money, he's not gonna get it unless he goes to the Yankees or Red Sox. He's not that kind of player, especially outside Philly. If that's the case then good riddance before we ever get him. I think he's capable of hitting .300 30 homers and 100 rbi outside Philly, but I sure hope we don't pay him like a 50 homer guy. Adam Dunn is a real Possibility too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Truth...
> 
> His agent is Scott Boras.
> 
> Werth WILL get the current market rate for his position and production, which is very similar to Holliday's, who is also a Scott Boras client.
> 
> Werth and Holliday are very similar in production, and I would argue that Werth even has some tools that Holliday doesn't.
> 
> Holliday got 7/120.  17 mil a year.
> 
> Werth will get no less than 15 a year.
> 
> If he does, I'll come in here and proclaim that I don't know jack shit about baseball.
Click to expand...


that's ridiculous. I think Holliday got that contract in anticipation that his numbers would be similar to his numbers in colorado, in the ballpark of .330 40 homers, 120 rbis. Holliday is not getting paid "market value". He's over paid. Just like Barry Zito is not getting paid market value. 

I don't think it's impossible with Scott Boras as his agent but I don't think he can command more than 10 million a year. He's just not that good.

Plus the Giants have been burned by Boras before so they will not overpay for Werth that's for damn sure. So maybe it's less likely than I thought that he will become a Giant. Who I'd rather have is Paul Konerko. That's intriguing.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then if that's the case, the Giants will not overpay for Werth. they'll probably offer him in the realm of 8-10 million for 4 years. If he seeks more money, he's not gonna get it unless he goes to the Yankees or Red Sox. He's not that kind of player, especially outside Philly. If that's the case then good riddance before we ever get him. I think he's capable of hitting .300 30 homers and 100 rbi outside Philly, but I sure hope we don't pay him like a 50 homer guy. Adam Dunn is a real Possibility too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth...
> 
> His agent is Scott Boras.
> 
> Werth WILL get the current market rate for his position and production, which is very similar to Holliday's, who is also a Scott Boras client.
> 
> Werth and Holliday are very similar in production, and I would argue that Werth even has some tools that Holliday doesn't.
> 
> Holliday got 7/120.  17 mil a year.
> 
> Werth will get no less than 15 a year.
> 
> If he does, I'll come in here and proclaim that I don't know jack shit about baseball.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that's ridiculous. I think Holliday got that contract in anticipation that his numbers would be similar to his numbers in colorado, in the ballpark of .330 40 homers, 120 rbis. Holliday is not getting paid "market value". He's over paid. Just like Barry Zito is not getting paid market value.
> 
> I don't think it's impossible with Scott Boras as his agent but I don't think he can command more than 10 million a year. He's just not that good.
> 
> Plus the Giants have been burned by Boras before so they will not overpay for Werth that's for damn sure. So maybe it's less likely than I thought that he will become a Giant. Who I'd rather have is Paul Konerko. That's intriguing.
Click to expand...


This isn't how things work in the MLB.

Market value is not subjective.  It's directly related to your peers.  Peers being those who perform around the same as you do.

If someone with similar numbers gets a contract for 120 million, that's now the new precedent at that moment.  If your numbers are around the same, and ESPECIALLY if you have the same agent that got that original 120 for the first guy, then you are now considered to have that same market value.

Boras can, and WILL, land Werth a contract very similar to Holliday's.  That's what he does.

And how can one expect Holliday to produce the same as he did in Colorado's band box?

It's interesting you mention Konerko too, because Rowand's contract was just about the same as Konerko's except for the way it was broken down.


----------



## Truthspeaker

We'll see. you could be right. But we won't make the same mistake we made with rowand and zito. I could forsee a maximum 3 year deal with Konerko because of his age. To the tune of 9 or 10 million should suffice. But who knows anything


----------



## Andrew2382

all i want to know is if you still trade matt cain for albert pujols


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> We'll see. you could be right. But we won't make the same mistake we made with rowand and zito. I could forsee a maximum 3 year deal with Konerko because of his age. To the tune of 9 or 10 million should suffice. But who knows anything



Your mistake with Rowand is only realized in hindsight, though.

The guy looked like a potential star.  He gives up the body, he hits for average, he's got a gold glove, and he can hit for power and drive in runs.  He can even steal some bases too.

5/60 wasn't a bad contract at all.  He just turned out to be a fraud who stepped it up only when the money was on the line.

Zito's problem is that he's a surfer FIRST, and then a baseball player.  He wanted to stay in the bay area so he could still surf.

He should have gone somewhere where there were no waves and he had no other choice but to focus on baseball.  But he wouldn't have allowed that anyway.  

He actually started out pretty well this year.  I thought maybe he was coming around.  But I just don't think his heart is really in baseball.

Why are you so quick to pass on Huff, though?  Just out of curiosity.  You could probably have him cheaper than Konerko.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Andrew2382 said:


> all i want to know is if you still trade matt cain for albert pujols



I already said no to this. I said yes in 2009 because the everyday offense wasn't good enough to get them  TO THE playoffs. Now the offense is good enough so we don't need to trade pitching for bats.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> We'll see. you could be right. But we won't make the same mistake we made with rowand and zito. I could forsee a maximum 3 year deal with Konerko because of his age. To the tune of 9 or 10 million should suffice. But who knows anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your mistake with Rowand is only realized in hindsight, though.
> 
> The guy looked like a potential star.  He gives up the body, he hits for average, he's got a gold glove, and he can hit for power and drive in runs.  He can even steal some bases too.
> 
> 5/60 wasn't a bad contract at all.  He just turned out to be a fraud who stepped it up only when the money was on the line.
> 
> Zito's problem is that he's a surfer FIRST, and then a baseball player.  He wanted to stay in the bay area so he could still surf.
> 
> He should have gone somewhere where there were no waves and he had no other choice but to focus on baseball.  But he wouldn't have allowed that anyway.
> 
> He actually started out pretty well this year.  I thought maybe he was coming around.  But I just don't think his heart is really in baseball.
> 
> Why are you so quick to pass on Huff, though?  Just out of curiosity.  You could probably have him cheaper than Konerko.
Click to expand...


 I'm not passing on Huff. We're gonna keep him and move him to the outfield if we get Konkerko or Dunn. He's actually solid out there and runs well despite what people think. He went on record saying he loved playing the outfield and played 40 games there for us this year.


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## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> all i want to know is if you still trade matt cain for albert pujols
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already said no to this. I said yes in 2009 because the everyday offense wasn't good enough to get them  TO THE playoffs. Now the offense is good enough so we don't need to trade pitching for bats.
Click to expand...


You don't get it though.

If you had gotten to the playoffs and then didn't have that same pitching prowess, your chances of winning it all greatly diminish.

In the playoffs it's all about the pitching.

You can sneak INTO the playoffs without it, but it's hard to win 5 and 7 game series when the other team that has better pitching is shutting down your lineup.

You didn't score a whole hell of a lot of runs against us.  It was your PITCHING that won you the NLCS.


----------



## Paulie

What are you guys gonna do with Ross?

He's arb eligible.  You gonna offer him a contract or let him go to arb?


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## Paulie

MLBTradeRumors has the Giants offering him a contract this offseason, and Ross has been pressing Uggla to sign there as well.

You could move Sanchez to SS, and let Uribe go.

Thoughts?


----------



## Wry Catcher

Andrew2382 said:


> Ok ladies, the best time of year is almost upon us.  Get your gloves and bats and be safe out there!
> 
> Predictions:
> 
> AL East:
> Yankees 100-62
> Red Sox 95-67
> Rays 88-74
> Blue Jays 77-84
> Orioles 70-92
> 
> AL Central:
> Twins 84-79
> Tigers 83-80
> White Sox 75-87
> Indians 68-94
> Royals 65-97
> 
> AL West:
> Mariners 88-74
> Angels 87-75
> Rangers 83-79
> Athletics 77-85
> 
> Wild Card: Red Sox
> 
> National League
> 
> NL East:
> Phillies 92-70
> Marlins 86-76
> Mets 85-77
> Braves 83-79
> Nationals 60-102
> 
> NL Central:
> Cardinals 97-65
> Reds 90-72
> Cubs 82-80
> Brewers 79-83
> Astros 76-86
> Pirates 69-93
> 
> NL West
> Dodgers 94-68
> Diamondbacks 91-71
> Giants 88-74
> Rockies 81-81
> Padres 72-90
> 
> Wild Card: D-backs
> 
> ALDS: Yankees over Twins in 3
> ALDS: Sox over Mariners in 4
> 
> NLDS: Phillies over Dodgers in 4
> NLDS: Cardinals over D-backs in 4
> 
> ALCS: Yankees over Sox in 7
> 
> NLCS: Phillies over Cards in 6
> 
> World Series:
> Yankees over Phillies in 6
> 
> 
> 
> I have a feeling about the Mariners taking the west this year...I am sure come july/august I will look back at this and say "WHAT THE FUCK WAS I THINKING WITH SOME OF THESE PICKS"
> 
> 
> Edit:  my NL west was all fucked up...



I wouldn't say "fucked up".  No one, not even a Giants fan would have predicted a World Series Win over Texas this year.  Isn't Baseball Grand!


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew2382 said:
> 
> 
> 
> all i want to know is if you still trade matt cain for albert pujols
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already said no to this. I said yes in 2009 because the everyday offense wasn't good enough to get them  TO THE playoffs. Now the offense is good enough so we don't need to trade pitching for bats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it though.
> 
> If you had gotten to the playoffs and then didn't have that same pitching prowess, your chances of winning it all greatly diminish.
> 
> In the playoffs it's all about the pitching.
> 
> You can sneak INTO the playoffs without it, but it's hard to win 5 and 7 game series when the other team that has better pitching is shutting down your lineup.
> 
> You didn't score a whole hell of a lot of runs against us.  It was your PITCHING that won you the NLCS.
Click to expand...


No I think you're the one not "getting it". What does any of it matter if you can't get TO the playoffs? I'd rather be this years Reds playing than last year's Giants fishing.
Fortunately we added just enough offense last year to get to the playoffs. No we don't need to trade pitching.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> What are you guys gonna do with Ross?
> 
> He's arb eligible.  You gonna offer him a contract or let him go to arb?



Definitely gonna offer him a contract. No question about that.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> MLBTradeRumors has the Giants offering him a contract this offseason, and Ross has been pressing Uggla to sign there as well.
> 
> You could move Sanchez to SS, and let Uribe go.
> 
> Thoughts?



If there were any chance of Uggla coming to sf, I'd be over the moon. But we would be asking Sandoval to step down. I'm keepin Uribe no matter what. Sanchez or Uggla would play third tho and Uribe plays short. If i'm gonna lose a guy, it would be sandoval, not uribe. But Uggla's not gonna come here and the Panda is gonna get back on track so it's gonna be fine.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already said no to this. I said yes in 2009 because the everyday offense wasn't good enough to get them  TO THE playoffs. Now the offense is good enough so we don't need to trade pitching for bats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it though.
> 
> If you had gotten to the playoffs and then didn't have that same pitching prowess, your chances of winning it all greatly diminish.
> 
> In the playoffs it's all about the pitching.
> 
> You can sneak INTO the playoffs without it, but it's hard to win 5 and 7 game series when the other team that has better pitching is shutting down your lineup.
> 
> You didn't score a whole hell of a lot of runs against us.  It was your PITCHING that won you the NLCS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I think you're the one not "getting it". What does any of it matter if you can't get TO the playoffs? I'd rather be this years Reds playing than last year's Giants fishing.
> Fortunately we added just enough offense last year to get to the playoffs. No we don't need to trade pitching.
Click to expand...


Yeah, and last year I was suggesting that instead of offing Cain, you simply pick up a decent mid-range bat that wouldn't cost and arm and a leg.

I'm not exactly sure what you added from last year dollar-wise, but it wasn't a whole hell of a lot.

The whole point is that you were trying to get rid of the one thing you needed in the playoffs...a stellar arm.  

You can sneak into the playoffs much easier than you can get all the way through them.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Truthspeaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it though.
> 
> If you had gotten to the playoffs and then didn't have that same pitching prowess, your chances of winning it all greatly diminish.
> 
> In the playoffs it's all about the pitching.
> 
> You can sneak INTO the playoffs without it, but it's hard to win 5 and 7 game series when the other team that has better pitching is shutting down your lineup.
> 
> You didn't score a whole hell of a lot of runs against us.  It was your PITCHING that won you the NLCS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I think you're the one not "getting it". What does any of it matter if you can't get TO the playoffs? I'd rather be this years Reds playing than last year's Giants fishing.
> Fortunately we added just enough offense last year to get to the playoffs. No we don't need to trade pitching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, and last year I was suggesting that instead of offing Cain, you simply pick up a decent mid-range bat that wouldn't cost and arm and a leg.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what you added from last year dollar-wise, but it wasn't a whole hell of a lot.
> 
> The whole point is that you were trying to get rid of the one thing you needed in the playoffs...a stellar arm.
> 
> You can sneak into the playoffs much easier than you can get all the way through them.
Click to expand...


Giants may bring up another stud bat. Highl touted and highly productive AAA kid named Brandon Belt. Clubbing all kinds of homers, triples and doubles down there. They say he could be as good as Buster Posey. That would be great at first base! Then we could move Huff to Left Field.


----------



## Sheldon

Anybody have an educated guess as to who's going to sign Cliff Lee? MLB trade rumors says that Cashman is meeting with Lee today... but god I hope he doesn't go with the Yanks. 

Can't believe Jeter won a Gold Glove this year.


----------



## Paulie

Sheldon said:


> Anybody have an educated guess as to who's going to sign Cliff Lee? MLB trade rumors says that Cashman is meeting with Lee today... but god I hope he doesn't go with the Yanks.
> 
> Can't believe Jeter won a Gold Glove this year.



Jeter's defense this season was not his best.  His fielding pct was great, but his range is falling off.  His UZR, the stat that measures how your defense prevented runs vs. allowed runs, was the worst of his career.  Something like negative 4.5.  

There HAD to be a better SS this season in the AL.

Far as Lee, it's kind of cliche' at this point to say NY, but there's only a couple teams that are going to pay what he demands.  I don't necessarily count out Philly, but it's a LONG shot.

Truth, I've heard of your boy in the minors.  He's comin' on.  I hope he does well for you.  I'm hoping we let Werth go and move on to Dominic Brown.


----------



## Paulie

Hey Truth, check this out:

Just like I was saying!

Scott Boras is looking for Matt Holliday money for Jayson Werth | HardballTalk



> According to Todd Zolecki of MLB.com, the belief is that Jayson Werth could seek a contract similar to the seven-year, $120 million deal Matt Holliday received from the Cardinals last winter.
> 
> Scott Boras stated his new client&#8217;s case for big dollars on Friday.
> 
> &#8220;We have, in my mind, probably the most coveted offensive player in the free-agent market,&#8221; Boras said. &#8220;Carl Crawford is a really great player, but the truth of the matter is, Werth scores as many runs, and his on-base percentage is the same. Werth is a guy that can play center field and has played center field recently. He&#8217;s a Gold Glove-type outfielder. Crawford is, too. But the big difference is that Werth has 87 home runs over the last three years and Crawford has 42. Werth is really a middle-of-the-lineup guy. I think when he bats third, he&#8217;ll be a 110-to-120-runs-scored guy and a 100-RBI guy. And I think teams that are looking for a right-handed bat view Werth as a middle-of-the-lineup guy.&#8221;



  He drives a hard bargain!!

What a waste of money that's going to be!!!


----------



## Truthspeaker

If teams would just play a little hardball for once with these slimy agents, they could actually drive the prices down to reasonable numbers. Instead they're so afraid of losing them that they bend over and take it from these agents, especially Scott Boras. 

These teams should confer among themselves and secretly agree that no one gets paid more than 10 million a year. Players only make ridiculous amounts of money when owners are willing/dumb enough/desperate enough to get screwed by these agents.

Werth for more than 10 million? insane. "Going market" my ass! Doesn't the economy affect baseball at least a little?

Scott Boras has screwed the Giants with no lube of any kind, with his right leg and boots still on with the criminal contract of Barry Zito. I imagine he's raped owners all over the country similarly. But you can't blame him one little bit. Only the puppets dressed in suits, labeled owners.


----------



## Truthspeaker

Paulie said:


> Hey Truth, check this out:
> 
> Just like I was saying!
> 
> Scott Boras is looking for Matt Holliday money for Jayson Werth | HardballTalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Todd Zolecki of MLB.com, the belief is that Jayson Werth could seek a contract similar to the seven-year, $120 million deal Matt Holliday received from the Cardinals last winter.
> 
> Scott Boras stated his new clients case for big dollars on Friday.
> 
> We have, in my mind, probably the most coveted offensive player in the free-agent market, Boras said. Carl Crawford is a really great player, but the truth of the matter is, Werth scores as many runs, and his on-base percentage is the same. Werth is a guy that can play center field and has played center field recently. Hes a Gold Glove-type outfielder. Crawford is, too. But the big difference is that Werth has 87 home runs over the last three years and Crawford has 42. Werth is really a middle-of-the-lineup guy. I think when he bats third, hell be a 110-to-120-runs-scored guy and a 100-RBI guy. And I think teams that are looking for a right-handed bat view Werth as a middle-of-the-lineup guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He drives a hard bargain!!
> 
> What a waste of money that's going to be!!!
Click to expand...







This statement by Boras is an insult to everyone's intelligence. He's lying his ass off!!!
Werth hit 5th for the slugging and dangerous Phillies in the tennis court known as Citizens Bank Park.  He had a solid season with 27 homers and 85 rbi. He had good players on base in front of him all year.
So for Boras to say that a guy who has never driven in 100 runs even in his career high 2009 is going to have better numbers in a different park just because he moves up 2 spots in the lineup? I never knew such affrontery!!! Lies I say and off with his head!!

This is a plug to other teams that would bat him 3rd. Oviously he's not plugging Philadelphia to resign him because they know Werth's worth. They know he's not going to bat 3rd over Utley so he's trying to pull the wool over other potential suitors. Slick move Scotty!

 If he leaves the phillies, he'll certainly be going to a team that is offensively inferior with less protection and more difficult surroundings in which to homer. Unless it's New York or Colorado, his numbers will certainly drop off. Could he drive in 100 runs and hit 30 homers? The answer is yes. But that's not what Boras said. Boras said he "will" drive in 100 runs and hit 30 homers. Even though he's never had that combination in his entire career. He hit 30 or more homers just once in 8 years and never drove in 100 runs. Slick move Scotty!

Boras must really think we're idiots. He knows the owners are idiots, he's been eating them for breakfast for 15 years.


----------



## Paulie

I don't know, he might have a point about the RBI's if moved up in the lineup.

You have to figure with Utley and Howard hitting in front of you, you're left fighting for scraps by the time you get to the plate.

Something I'm sure Boras will conveniently leave out also, is Werth's sub-Mendoza Line avg. with runners in SCORING POSITION this year.

So even _WITH_ Utley and Howard batting ahead of him, he screwed _HIMSELF_ out of getting to 100.


----------



## G.T.

Yankees are gunna go all the.........

oh wait.


----------



## Truthspeaker

trust me, the high on base percentages of Utley and Howard will mean somebody is usually on base every time Werth comes up.


----------



## Paulie

Truthspeaker said:


> trust me, the high on base percentages of Utley and Howard will mean somebody is usually on base every time Werth comes up.



Yeah, and he didn't knock them in when they were in scoring position.

.185 or somewhere close to that with RISP.

He's too busy trying to knock the ball out of the city.


----------

