# "Thomas Jefferson's Qur'an"



## jon_berzerk (Oct 5, 2013)

anyone want to read some lefty propaganda 


check it out 

a rewrite of history 

SATURDAY, OCT 5, 2013 01:00 PM CDT
Our Founding Fathers included Islam
Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims

Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com


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## Old Rocks (Oct 5, 2013)

Ever hear of the Jefferson Bible?


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## Political Junky (Oct 6, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> Ever hear of the Jefferson Bible?


Yes, the one he wrote, omitting all references to "miracles".


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 6, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> Ever hear of the Jefferson Bible?



yes but what does that have to with the revisionist history displayed 

in the book


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## Old Rocks (Oct 6, 2013)

Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com

He] sais &#8220;neither Pagan nor Mahamedan [Muslim] nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.&#8221;&#8232; &#8212; Thomas Jefferson, quoting John Locke, 1776&#8232; 

At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur&#8217;an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson&#8217;s Qur&#8217;an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America&#8217;s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.

That he owned a Qur&#8217;an reveals Jefferson&#8217;s interest in the Islamic religion, but it does not explain his support for the rights of Muslims. Jefferson first read about Muslim &#8220;civil rights&#8221; in the work of one of his intellectual heroes: the seventeenth-century English philosopher John Locke. Locke had advocated the toleration of Muslims&#8212;and Jews&#8212;following in the footsteps of a few others in Europe who had considered the matter for more than a century before him. Jefferson&#8217;s ideas about Muslim rights must be understood within this older context, a complex set of transatlantic ideas that would continue to evolve most markedly from the sixteenth through the nineteenth centuries.


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 6, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com
> 
> He] sais neither Pagan nor Mahamedan [Muslim] nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.&#8232;  Thomas Jefferson, quoting John Locke, 1776&#8232;
> 
> ...



thanks for re posting the propaganda i originally posted 

got anything else


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 6, 2013)

&#8220;neither Pagan nor Mahamedan [Muslim] nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.&#8221;&#8232; &#8212; Thomas Jefferson, quoting John Locke, 1776&#8232; 

Not propaganda or revisionism.  But Jon is engaged in such.


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## MuadDib (Oct 6, 2013)

Jefferson was an advocate for religious freedom as evidenced by the Virginia Statutes for Religious Freedom. He was also an advocate for the separation of church and state, as evidenced by his letter to the Danbury Baptists. 

I think we would find that many of the things the progressives and atheists are doing these days violate his beliefs on religious freedom. It was never his intent to exclude religious displays. The Founders simply didn't want an official state religion that would repeat the problems with the Anglican church.


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## Sallow (Oct 6, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> anyone want to read some lefty propaganda
> 
> 
> check it out
> ...



Yeah..it's not like the Prophet Mohammed doesn't appear on a relief in the Supreme court or anything.

Court's Depiction of Muhammad Assailed - Los Angeles Times

Oh wait..


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## peach174 (Oct 6, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com
> 
> He] sais &#8220;neither Pagan nor Mahamedan [Muslim] nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.&#8221;&#8232; &#8212; Thomas Jefferson, quoting John Locke, 1776&#8232;
> 
> ...




What a bunch of lies and revisionist of history.

Jefferson bought a Koran because he could not believe that a religious holy book would tell their followers to kill if you did not become a Muslim.

In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they inquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:


It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave & kill; and that every Muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of Foreign Affairs John Jay, who submitted the Ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks. Although John Adams agreed with Jefferson, he believed that circumstances forced the U.S. to pay tribute until an adequate navy could be built. The U.S. had just fought an exhausting war, which put the nation deep in debt. Federalist and Anti-Federalist forces argued over the needs of the country and the burden of taxation. Jefferson's own Democratic-Republicans and anti-navalists believed that the future of the country lay in westward expansion, with Atlantic trade threatening to siphon money and energy away from the new nation on useless wars in the Old World. The U.S. paid Algiers the ransom, and continued to pay up to $1 million per year over the next 15 years for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages. A $1 million payment in ransom and tribute to the privateering states would have amounted to approximately ten percent of the U.S. government's annual revenues in 1800.

Jefferson continued to argue for cessation of the tribute, with rising support from George Washington and others. With the recommissioning of the American navy in 1794 and the resulting increased firepower on the seas, it became increasingly possible for America to refuse paying tribute, although by now the long-standing habit was hard to overturn.

In short we went to war with the same type of Muslim Jihadist ideology that we have today.
We won that war.

Jefferson knew nothing about the Koran until he went to negotiate with the Ambassador in 1785.
He could not believe what the ambassador had  told him. He then bought the Koran to learn more about the book.


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## Sunshine (Oct 6, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> Ever hear of the Jefferson Bible?



Yes, I own one.


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## Sunshine (Oct 6, 2013)

MuadDib said:


> Jefferson was an advocate for religious freedom as evidenced by the Virginia Statutes for Religious Freedom. He was also an advocate for the separation of church and state, as evidenced by his letter to the Danbury Baptists.
> 
> I think we would find that many of the things the progressives and atheists are doing these days violate his beliefs on religious freedom. It was never his intent to exclude religious displays. The Founders simply didn't want an official state religion that would repeat the problems with the Anglican church.



Actually, Jefferson found religion to be threatening.  He struggled with it.  And given what we know about his life today, we should understand why.


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## Sunshine (Oct 6, 2013)

Sallow said:


> jon_berzerk said:
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Got a picture?  I can't find one online.


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## Sallow (Oct 6, 2013)

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
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The bible advocates for the very same thing.


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## Sallow (Oct 6, 2013)

Sunshine said:


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Your google broke again?

Mohammed Image Archive

Maybe you just don't know how to use it.

Let me google that for you


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 6, 2013)

Sunshine said:


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Morning Sunshine 

there certainly is likeness of mohammad on the supreme court building 

unfortunately  for sallows argument  the building was built in 1935 

not 1800s when Jefferson was fighting with the muslims 

after he refused to continue to pay the ransom payments

which was about 20 percent of the federal budget 

i wouldnt say he was exactly embracing them with open arms


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## peach174 (Oct 6, 2013)

The figure of Muhammad depicts the history of law & justice.
Not about the religion it's self.

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist rejected the request by the Muslims, saying the Muhammad sculpture "was intended only to recognize him, among many other lawgivers, as an important figure in the history of law; it is not intended as a form of idol worship."

The friezes, overall, reflect the ideal of certainty in the law.


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## peach174 (Oct 6, 2013)

Sallow said:


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No it doesn't.
The Bible does not say kill everyone that does not convert to Christianity. The Koran does.
Mankind did that, like the Spanish Inquisition.
Crusaders where trying to take back control over holy cites controlled by Muslims. They were not killing to those who refused to become Christians.


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## BecauseIKnow (Oct 6, 2013)

peach174 said:


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Tell us how you follow Jesus.


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## peach174 (Oct 6, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


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With Love


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 6, 2013)

peach174 said:


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The Crusaders slaughtered most of the inhabitants of Jerusalem and most Antioch when they captured those cities.

The revisionism needs to be kept to a minimum, guys.


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## BecauseIKnow (Oct 6, 2013)

peach174 said:


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Tell how you characteristics compare to the characteristics of Jesus. How many beers do you drink a week?

And what does that mean with love? I'm not talking about a belief in your head only. 

I'm asking about your daily life. Do you know how Jesus used to live his life?


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## MuadDib (Oct 6, 2013)

BecauseIKnow said:


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Love God? Love your fellow man.

It's that simple.


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