# Philosophers! Which Philosopher do you think was most effective!



## ThatDude30

Out of the choices choose 1 Philosopher you think was most effective and most productive.


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## Moonglow

effective at what?


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## Moonglow




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## Ringel05

Mel Brooks........


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## cnelsen

You are missing Socrates, the smartest human who ever lived, and the biggest impact (through his heirs) on the world, if that's what you mean by "effective".


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## Pogo

My mentor is Joachin Andujar.

He famously said, "Baseball can be summed up in one word, and that one word is, 'you never know'".


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## Pogo

ThatDude30 said:


> Out of the choices choose 1 Philosopher you think was most effective and most productive.



But seriously --- Laozi.


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## Moonglow

Pogo said:


> My mentor is Joachin Andujar.
> 
> He famously said, "Baseball can be summed up in one word, and that one word is, 'you never know'".


Damn pastoral misgivings...


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## Billy_Kinetta

Buckaroo Banzai.


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## Unkotare




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## IsaacNewton

Ralph Waldo Emerson


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## ThatDude30

Moonglow said:


> effective at what?


 Effective at being a Philosopher. There are certain things that make a good Philosopher. Not just anyone can be one. Which one do you think was most effective at being the definition of a philosopher. Effective at doing what made them a great Philosopher.


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## ThatDude30

cnelsen said:


> You are missing Socrates, the smartest human who ever lived, and the biggest impact (through his heirs) on the world, if that's what you mean by "effective".


 I felt everyone would pick Socrates. A lot of people only know Socrates, Aristotle, And Plato. I just want to know who people would pick out of the choices. I'm not saying they are the best just want to know who people would choose out of the choices.


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## ThatDude30

IsaacNewton said:


> Ralph Waldo Emerson


Emerson was a very good Philosopher, writer, and poet. My girlfriend is actually related to him.


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## ThatDude30

Unkotare said:


>


 I'm so so sooooo sorry you feel that way. next time I post something I will consider your feelings.


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## Billy_Kinetta

ThatDude30 said:


> Emerson was a very good Philosopher, writer, and poet. My girlfriend is actually related to him.



Lake and Palmer weren't too shabby either.

As you have probably assessed, I don't hold most philosophers in particular high regard.


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## Unkotare

ThatDude30 said:


> Unkotare said:
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> I'm so so sooooo sorry you feel that way. next time I post something I will consider your feelings.
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## cnelsen

ThatDude30 said:


> cnelsen said:
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> You are missing Socrates, the smartest human who ever lived, and the biggest impact (through his heirs) on the world, if that's what you mean by "effective".
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> I felt everyone would pick Socrates. A lot of people only know Socrates, Aristotle, And Plato. I just want to know who people would pick out of the choices. I'm not saying they are the best just want to know who people would choose out of the choices.
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OK, then Plato, Socrates' student, by proxy. Bacon was a philosopher who revolutionized the world by coming up with modern science. DesCartes was a philosopher who also revolutionized the world, but in mathematics, while his flawed philosophy did untold harm. Nietzsche, and the Scotsman, John MacMurray were two of the most powerful, in my view, but one is famous, one is not. Aristotle, Plato's student, and the teacher of Alexander the Great, had an enormous impact and was a philosopher. Marx and Confucius had enormous impacts as well, but weren't, strictly speaking, philosophers. Like the great philosopher, Jesus, neither Socrates, nor Confucius ever wrote anything down, though all three can claim to be founders of civilizations. Socrates was the earliest, and when he was put to death by his own people (like Jesus) at the age of 70-something (Jesus was in his 30s--a shame), Aristotle was just a little boy, and it would be more than three centuries before the three wise men would follow the star to Bethlehem. Dostoevsky, who took Jesus seriously, was probably the greatest novelist to ever live. He wasn't a philosopher, but went philosophically deep in his novels, as did Kafka. Locke probably had the biggest direct impact on us Americans. There, that's my two cents.


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## ThatDude30

Unkotare said:


> ThatDude30 said:
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> Unkotare said:
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 Samuel Jackson is that dude!


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## Moonglow

ThatDude30 said:


> Moonglow said:
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> effective at what?
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> Effective at being a Philosopher. There are certain things that make a good Philosopher. Not just anyone can be one. Which one do you think was most effective at being the definition of a philosopher. Effective at doing what made them a great Philosopher.
Click to expand...

A philosophy is merely the perceptions of a human...Some ramble, some dart and some try to abstain...I did like Confucius the best early on in life...


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## ThatDude30

Moonglow said:


> ThatDude30 said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> effective at what?
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> Effective at being a Philosopher. There are certain things that make a good Philosopher. Not just anyone can be one. Which one do you think was most effective at being the definition of a philosopher. Effective at doing what made them a great Philosopher.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A philosophy is merely the perceptions of a human...Some ramble, some dart and some try to abstain...I did like Confucius the best early on in life...
Click to expand...

 I should of said, not just anyone can be considered to be one of the great philosophers


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## Picaro

Of those on the list, Aristotle is the obvious choice. My personal favorite is Alfred Ayer, in particular his great book *Language, Truth, and Logic*.


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## ThatDude30

I'm going to have to check that book out. I like John Locke. He believed that knowledge is determined only by experience derived from sense perception.  " whatever I write, as soon as I discover it not to be true, my hand shall be the forwardest to throw it into the fire."


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## Unkotare

Empiricists are dopes. The senses are easily deceived.


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## ThatDude30

Unkotare said:


> Empiricists are dopes. The senses are easily deceived.


So are people in general.


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## ThatDude30

cnelsen said:


> ThatDude30 said:
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> cnelsen said:
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> You are missing Socrates, the smartest human who ever lived, and the biggest impact (through his heirs) on the world, if that's what you mean by "effective".
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> I felt everyone would pick Socrates. A lot of people only know Socrates, Aristotle, And Plato. I just want to know who people would pick out of the choices. I'm not saying they are the best just want to know who people would choose out of the choices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK, then Plato, Socrates' student, by proxy. Bacon was a philosopher who revolutionized the world by coming up with modern science. DesCartes was a philosopher who also revolutionized the world, but in mathematics, while his flawed philosophy did untold harm. Nietzsche, and the Scotsman, John MacMurray were two of the most powerful, in my view, but one is famous, one is not. Aristotle, Plato's student, and the teacher of Alexander the Great, had an enormous impact and was a philosopher. Marx and Confucius had enormous impacts as well, but weren't, strictly speaking, philosophers. Like the great philosopher, Jesus, neither Socrates, nor Confucius ever wrote anything down, though all three can claim to be founders of civilizations. Socrates was the earliest, and when he was put to death by his own people (like Jesus) at the age of 70-something (Jesus was in his 30s--a shame), Aristotle was just a little boy, and it would be more than three centuries before the three wise men would follow the star to Bethlehem. Dostoevsky, who took Jesus seriously, was probably the greatest novelist to ever live. He wasn't a philosopher, but went philosophically deep in his novels, as did Kafka. Locke probably had the biggest direct impact on us Americans. There, that's my two cents.
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 I agree. My choice is Locke.


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## Darkwind

Well, if by effective you mean to have the greatest number of believers in their philosophy, then you'd have to go with Jesus Christ followed by Muhammad.   You seem to have left off Augustine as well.  Of those listed, I'd go with Locke.


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## Vastator

ThatDude30 said:


> Out of the choices choose 1 Philosopher you think was most effective and most productive.


You forgot George Carlin.


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## ThatDude30

Darkwind said:


> Well, if by effective you mean to have the greatest number of believers in their philosophy, then you'd have to go with Jesus Christ followed by Muhammad.   You seem to have left off Augustine as well.  Of those listed, I'd go with Locke.


I'm just curious about who people would choose out of the choices I had listed.


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## ThatDude30

ThatDude30 said:


> Darkwind said:
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> Well, if by effective you mean to have the greatest number of believers in their philosophy, then you'd have to go with Jesus Christ followed by Muhammad.   You seem to have left off Augustine as well.  Of those listed, I'd go with Locke.
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> I'm just curious about who people would choose out of the choices I had listed.
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I go with Locke too.


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## Picaro

Unkotare said:


> Empiricists are dopes. The senses are easily deceived.



In many respects, yes. You might like F.A. Hayek's opinions on the value of tradition compared to the spectacular failure of 'rational' humanism; I don't agree with a lot of his extensions of his philosophy into economics, but his exegeses on the absurdities and fantasies of 'rationalism' are spot on. Empiricism is itself a philosophy, and very useful in limited applications, like chemistry and the like, but it's merely circular reasoning beyond its limited usefulness, certainly not at all useful to social sciences or greater cultural problems.


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## Picaro

ThatDude30 said:


> I'm going to have to check that book out. I like John Locke. He believed that knowledge is determined only by experience derived from sense perception.  " whatever I write, as soon as I discover it not to be true, my hand shall be the forwardest to throw it into the fire."



The so-called 'Enlightenment' thinkers usually rank high with many, at least in the U.S. anyway, because of their influence. I don't think they were all that vastly 'enlightened', except in a small incremental sense; they were certainly good propagandists, and excellent writers, though, Locke especially. I like reading him occasionally myself. Many Catholic scholars covered much of the same territory they did, in many cases they merely 'secularized' much of that work to make it more palatable to Protestant tastes.


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## cnelsen

Vastator said:


> ThatDude30 said:
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> Out of the choices choose 1 Philosopher you think was most effective and most productive.
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> You forgot George Carlin.
Click to expand...

And Rodney "Can't we all get along" King.


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## Unkotare

Picaro said:


> Unkotare said:
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> Empiricists are dopes. The senses are easily deceived.
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> In many respects, yes. You might like F.A. Hayek's opinions on the value of tradition compared to the spectacular failure of 'rational' humanism; I don't agree with a lot of his extensions of his philosophy into economics, but his exegeses on the absurdities and fantasies of 'rationalism' are spot on.....
Click to expand...


It's more complicated than you may appreciate.


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## Picaro

Unkotare said:


> Picaro said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Empiricists are dopes. The senses are easily deceived.
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> In many respects, yes. You might like F.A. Hayek's opinions on the value of tradition compared to the spectacular failure of 'rational' humanism; I don't agree with a lot of his extensions of his philosophy into economics, but his exegeses on the absurdities and fantasies of 'rationalism' are spot on.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's more complicated than you may appreciate.
Click to expand...


More than likely not, but then I don't go in for 'complicated stuff' like FDR conspiracy theories and other rubbish, as you do.


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## Unkotare

Picaro said:


> Unkotare said:
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> Picaro said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Empiricists are dopes. The senses are easily deceived.
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> In many respects, yes. You might like F.A. Hayek's opinions on the value of tradition compared to the spectacular failure of 'rational' humanism; I don't agree with a lot of his extensions of his philosophy into economics, but his exegeses on the absurdities and fantasies of 'rationalism' are spot on.....
> 
> Click to expand...
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> It's more complicated than you may appreciate.
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> Click to expand...
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> More than likely not, but then I don't go in for 'complicated stuff' like FDR conspiracy theories and other rubbish, as you do.
Click to expand...



What "conspiracy theories"?


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## phaethon

Aristotle.

The greater mass of people have no interest in the theoretical concepts, they only care for the practical.

Aristotle prepared a temporary working hypothesis, which was bound to collapse in the long run, for people with such an attitude, even going so far as to deviate from Plato by only treating the matter aspect. As a student of Plato, he would have been familiar with the theoretical concepts. He has a parallel in Democritus, who was a student of Pythagoras, but mainly emphasized the matter aspect with his atomic theory.

In order to successfully effect this system, Aristotle represented the pre-Socratic philosophers (i.e. Thales) as the first primitive thinkers of ancient Greece. The fact that much of our knowledge of them has come from him should have been an indication that he would have been familiar with their theoretical concepts and what they really intended. Thales, as a teacher and admirer of Pythagoras, who taught a spherical earth, would not have maintained a flat earth. His concept of the earth resting on water is thoroughly symbolic. Aristotle even called it the oldest known theory. Aristotle would have to explain to his materialistic readers how Thales could have possibly arrived at this view from a natural, physical observation.

The prediction of eclipses has been attributed to Thales and he was said to have been the first among the Greeks to inquire into the universe. He also taught that magnets had a soul, an interesting argument which William Gilbert worked upon and paid homage to in his work on electricity. Plato listed him as one of the Lacedaemonian type philosophers, which should be distinguished from the later speculation of sophists, including Socrates, Kant, Hegel, etc.

That we only possess fragments of the pre-Socratic sayings should have enjoined caution in assessing them. It's my opinion that even one preserved quote from one of these pre-Socratic philosophers has greater relevancy than an entire "holy" book.

All things are changing, no man can step into the same river twice. This is in accord with the laws of science.


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## Picaro

Of those listed, Aristotle by a long shot. The best ever, and in fact is the author of the best introductory book that should be required reading is Alfred Ayer, and his excellent *Language, Truth, and Logic*, which is available in its entirety over at archive.org, and at other sites around the web.

Alfred Ayer - Language, Truth and Logic : Alfred Ayer : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

see also ...

A. J. Ayer - Wikipedia

His 'death' experience is noteworthy, given his career before that.


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## Picaro

Another plug for Ayer.


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## Quentin111

*Bertrand* *Russell, of course!*


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## Pogo

I see the poll has closed.  It seemed like a narrow range of choices which is why I plugged in Lao-Tze but if I had to confine to the confinements I guess I'd go with Kung Fu Tze as the next closest thing.

Odd that such a question would have a closing date though.  "Fast food filosophy"?


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## Circe

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Buckaroo Banzai.


Right ---- "Wherever you go, there you are."


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## Circe

I'd say Jeremy Bentham (Utilitarianism) and Kant (the Categorical Imperative) are the most influential in Ethics.


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## Lulllaboo

I really love Schopenhauer.


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## Darkwind

Al Bundy...

Don't be a fat fucking slob and you won't have to wear gunboat shoes!


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## Darkwind




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## Darkwind

LMAO


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## SobieskiSavedEurope

I'm sensing an anti-German flare here.

Many of the best philosophers were German, like Kant, Leibniz, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Christian Wolff etc.


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## irosie91

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> I'm sensing an anti-German flare here.
> 
> Many of the best philosophers were German, like Kant, Leibniz, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Christian Wolff etc.



what happened to your    POLACK-PHOBIA  delusion?.  
Have you ever noticed REAL  polock-phobia----amongst
GERMANS?


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## zaangalewa

ThatDude30 said:


> Out of the choices choose 1 Philosopher you think was most effective and most productive.



Aristotle. Aristotle is the founding father of all universities.


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## Mindful

None of them.

Well maybe Aristotle.


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## Vastator

The list is way too incomplete. 
I’m a fan of Ralph Waldo Emerson myself. I particularly like his treatises on Anarchy, and poems which speak of the value of self reliance.


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## Unkotare

ThatDude30 said:


> Out of the choices choose 1 Philosopher you think was most effective and most productive.




Was “effective” ever defined as relates to the op?


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## Votto

cnelsen said:


> You are missing Socrates, the smartest human who ever lived, and the biggest impact (through his heirs) on the world, if that's what you mean by "effective".



Look, just because Plato looked up to the man and was one of his pupils does not mean he should be on the list

LMAO!


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## midcan5

Effective?   Odd word, but Locke for western culture and Confucius for eastern culture.

Personally, a few that impressed or made me think through these years are:

Albert Camus
Bernard Williams
Derek Parfit
Erich Fromm
Friedrich Nietzsche
Harry Frankfort
Herbert Marcuse
Jean-Paul Sartre
Jeremy Waldron
John Rawls
Karl Popper
Ludwig Wittgenstein
Michel Foucault
Noam Chomsky
Roland Barthes
Theodor Adorno
Walter Benjamin

All worth your time.  Eric Hoffer too although more a social observer.

Edit:  Add Samuel Beckett one of my favorites, another philosopher of life. "I'm like that. Either I forget right away or I never forget."  Samuel Beckett

"A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people’s business."  Eric Hoffer

"The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto." Eric Hoffer


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## Picaro

Only three votes? Well, maybe that's a good sign, really; most 'philosophy' is total rubbish anyway, just bourgeoisie navel gazing. Locke for instance basically just ripped off a lot of Catholic intellectuals and stole credit for their ideas, as did most of the 'Enlightenment' types.


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## Votto

Picaro said:


> Only three votes? Well, maybe that's a good sign, really; most 'philosophy' is total rubbish anyway, just bourgeoisie navel gazing. Locke for instance basically just ripped off a lot of Catholic intellectuals and stole credit for their ideas, as did most of the 'Enlightenment' types.



Killjoy


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## Picaro

Jefferson made a lot of noise name-dropping assorted philosophers, they all did, since it was the popular parlor game of the middle and upper classes of the era, but the one who influenced his real life mentality was Viscount Bolingbroke and 'Bolingbrokism'; his real attitudes came directly out of *The Craftman* pamphlets of the early 18th century, and from him to many of the other 'anti-Federalists'.

Henry St John, 1st Viscount Bolingbroke - Wikipedia

*Republicanism in America*
*In the late 20th century, Bolingbroke was rediscovered by historians as a major influence on Voltaire, and on the American patriots John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Adams said that he had read all of Bolingbroke's works at least five times; indeed, Bolingbroke's works were widely read in the American colonies, where they helped provide the foundation for the emerging nation's devotion to republicanism in the United States. His vision of history as cycles of birth, growth, decline and death of a republic was influential in the colonies,[20] as was his contention on liberty: that one is "free not from the law, but by the law".[21]*

Forrest McDonald's succinct little book covers Jefferson's real politics better than almost all the large bios do.

The Presidency of Thomas Jefferson by Forrest McDonald


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## Karl Rand

ThatDude30 said:


> Out of the choices choose 1 Philosopher you think was most effective and most productive.


Maybe because I’m a new member I can’t see any way to vote. Doesn’t matter, I’m not all that impressed by the offerings other than to say I find Plato the most entertaining and Aristotle in parts the most effective. (whatever effective might mean)


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## Jonathan McCreevey

Missed the vote. Out of that list I would give the most credit to Confucius. At least he offered a more positive perspective to humans. He was short sighted compared to Jesus however IMO.


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## Picaro

Jonathan McCreevey said:


> Missed the vote. Out of that list I would give the most credit to Confucius. At least he offered a more positive perspective to humans. He was short sighted compared to Jesus however IMO.



The Christian theology and its applications certainly were better than the alternatives, definitely, which is why it became so popular.


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