# I've finally found my shotgun!



## Ringel05

The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)

Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun


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## waltky

Granny says keep it close at hand...

... never know when dem Hispexican drug cartels gonna bring their war up here.


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## Big Fitz

Oh hell!  That thing's so ugly it wrapped around to sexy!


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## Zona

Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.  

(and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)


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## Big Fitz

Zona said:


> Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.
> 
> (and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)


reminds me of the old Robin Williams joke about out of control gun ownership.

"I built this cruise missile to stop those damn kids from playing ZZ Top!"


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## C_Clayton_Jones

Thats so ugly its cool.


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## Sallow

Yikes.

Be careful with it. Keep it locked..especially if you drink.


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## Baruch Menachem

So, when is the wedding?


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## Sallow

Baruch Menachem said:


> So, when is the wedding?


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## Mr. H.

If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow. 
BTW- sweet.


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## xsited1

Ringel05 said:


> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> ...



I want one!  But $880?  Shouldn't you get an old East European knock-off for $112.82 instead?


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## Ringel05

Zona said:


> Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.
> 
> (and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)



After you're done..........
Home defense and hunting are the only two viable reasons for owning and 'collecting' firearms?


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## Ringel05

xsited1 said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want one!  But $880?  Shouldn't you get an old East European knock-off for $112.82 instead?
Click to expand...


The Chinese.  They make the knock offs.


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## Ringel05

Sallow said:


> Yikes.
> 
> Be careful with it. Keep it locked..especially if you drink.



I don't drink because of the anti-psychotic drugs......... 
(Wait for the explosion............)


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## Douger

Ringel05 said:


> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun


Tactical piece of shit. Set my alarm off and I'll introduce you to a Mossberg 500 marine.


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## Ringel05

Mr. H. said:


> If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow.
> BTW- sweet.



14 rounds in two tubes under the barrel.  load one side with buck for close proximity breach and the other side with slug for longer range encounters.  Use the thumb switch to select which you want to use.


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## Douger

Ringel05 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow.
> BTW- sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 rounds in two tubes under the barrel.  load one side with buck for close proximity breach and the other side with slug for longer range encounters.  Use the thumb switch to select which you want to use.
Click to expand...

If you think you'll need 14 just buy a single shot Savage and put it in your mouth and drop the hammer.
Get yourself a stainless pump with a fiber stock and knock off the bullshit. You can get the barrel with sights, a full choke, whatever you want.Buy 3 barrels. 
That thing you "want" is a piece of shit.Designed for murkinz.
I worked at the Colt custom shop.
Mossberg 500 marine is what you need. I'ts a fine piece , at a good price, and the Nazis won't look at you as some kind of lunatic.That piece of shit will land you on a "terrah list"
Understand ?
It aint the "land of duh free"> They just told you that. Look like a hunter.


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## Ernie S.

Zona said:


> Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.
> 
> (and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)



Overkill beats the shit out of underkill every time


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## Douger

Ernie S. said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.
> 
> (and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overkill beats the shit out of underkill every time
Click to expand...

At that point just get a belt feeder.
Like the bed made out of Guanacaste wood ?


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## Ernie S.

Douger said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow.
> BTW- sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 rounds in two tubes under the barrel.  load one side with buck for close proximity breach and the other side with slug for longer range encounters.  Use the thumb switch to select which you want to use.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you think you'll need 14 just by a single shot Savage and put it in your mouth and drop the hammer.
> Get yourself a stainless pump with a fiber stock and knock off the bullshit. You can get the barrel with sights, a full choke, whatever you want.Buy 3 barrels.
> That thing you "want" is a piece of shit.Designed for murkinz.
> I worked at the Colt custom shop.
> Mossberg 500 marine is what you need. I'ts a fine piece , at a good price, and the Nazis won't look at you as some kind of lunatic.That piece of shit will land you on a "terrah list"
> Understand ?
> It aint the "land of duh free"> They just told you that. Look like a hunter.
Click to expand...

I already cling to God and my guns, so I suppose I am on someone's list. That said, I think it's damned cool and if I expected more than 10 intruders, I might buy one. I have a Marlin 500 (6 rounds) a Remington auto loader (6 more) A Browning auto (another 5) and 2 Winchester doubles if I need to throw around some shot. The Marlin and Remington have scopes mounted and I can hit a 3" circle at 100 yards with either.


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## Ringel05

Douger said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow.
> BTW- sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 rounds in two tubes under the barrel.  load one side with buck for close proximity breach and the other side with slug for longer range encounters.  Use the thumb switch to select which you want to use.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you think you'll need 14 just buy a single shot Savage and put it in your mouth and drop the hammer.
> Get yourself a stainless pump with a fiber stock and knock off the bullshit. You can get the barrel with sights, a full choke, whatever you want.Buy 3 barrels.
> That thing you "want" is a piece of shit.Designed for murkinz.
> I worked at the Colt custom shop.
> Mossberg 500 marine is what you need. I'ts a fine piece , at a good price, and the Nazis won't look at you as some kind of lunatic.That piece of shit will land you on a "terrah list"
> Understand ?
> It aint the "land of duh free"> They just told you that. Look like a hunter.
Click to expand...


Yeah, whatever.  
And to think you were supposedly giving some other meathead grief about his ego.  Definitivamente no hay suficiente espacio en tu casa para ambos egos.
Acabo de decir.


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## Mr. H.

Douger said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow.
> BTW- sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 rounds in two tubes under the barrel.  load one side with buck for close proximity breach and the other side with slug for longer range encounters.  Use the thumb switch to select which you want to use.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you think you'll need 14 just buy a single shot Savage and put it in your mouth and drop the hammer.
> Get yourself a stainless pump with a fiber stock and knock off the bullshit. You can get the barrel with sights, a full choke, whatever you want.Buy 3 barrels.
> That thing you "want" is a piece of shit.Designed for murkinz.
> I worked at the Colt custom shop.
> Mossberg 500 marine is what you need. I'ts a fine piece , at a good price, and the Nazis won't look at you as some kind of lunatic.That piece of shit will land you on a "terrah list"
> Understand ?
> It aint the "land of duh free"> They just told you that. Look like a hunter.
Click to expand...


I believe this is the most verbose yet coherent string of sentences I've ever seen you post.


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## Big Fitz

Ringel05 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow.
> BTW- sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14 rounds in two tubes under the barrel.  load one side with buck for close proximity breach and the other side with slug for longer range encounters.  Use the thumb switch to select which you want to use.
Click to expand...

It is darn near a perfect "militia" weapon.


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## MikeK

This contraption is the archery equivalent of that shotgun in terms of commercial redundancy.  Believe it or not, that's a bow.  






And it does nothing this one doesn't do just as well -- maybe better.








Bottom line: it's not the song, it's the singer that makes it happen.


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## Zona

Douger said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tactical piece of shit. Set my alarm off and I'll introduce you to a Mossberg 500 marine.
Click to expand...

Ah, Mossberg.....old school.


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## Big Fitz

MikeK said:


> This contraption is the archery equivalent of that shotgun in terms of commercial redundancy.  Believe it or not, that's a bow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it does nothing this one doesn't do just as well -- maybe better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bottom line: it's not the song, it's the singer that makes it happen.


That's a beautiful compound re-curve.  I remember when they first came out with compounds for the broad commercial use back in the early 1980's.  They were so damn cool.  Nowadays, when I was last at the range a few years back, I'm seeing all sorts of contraptions that make archery so much better.  The sights are scary accurate glow in the dark things, the quick release triggers for drawing the string back so you don't throw them off with your fingers.  Just incredible.

You're right, that basic re-curve bow does what the other one does... basically.  The other one just does it far far better.


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## Ringel05

Zona said:


> Douger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tactical piece of shit. Set my alarm off and I'll introduce you to a Mossberg 500 marine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, Mossberg.....old school.
Click to expand...


Hell, I still have an Ithica M37.


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## Zona

Ringel05 said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Douger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tactical piece of shit. Set my alarm off and I'll introduce you to a Mossberg 500 marine.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, Mossberg.....old school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell, I still have an Ithica M37.
Click to expand...


Thats what you comment on?  Wow.

(Oh and that was Ice-T's wife.  Damn she was hot).


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## GunsBeerFreedom

Mr. H. said:


> If you needs sights to fire that thing, the bad guys are too far away to mess with anyhow.
> BTW- sweet.



No....Sights are useful if you want to hit your target.


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## boedicca

Ringel05 said:


> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun





Oooooooooo Pretty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ringel05

Zona said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, Mossberg.....old school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I still have an Ithica M37.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Thats what you comment on?*  Wow.
> 
> (Oh and that was Ice-T's wife.  Damn she was hot).
Click to expand...

Yeah?  So? 
Of course she's hot, so are lots of women.  Ya want I should pound my pud and spew jisum all over my keyboard and screen while looking at that picture?  I don't think so.


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## Spoonman

Zona said:


> Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.
> 
> (and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)



i like my mossberg 500






but if i really want to take on a crowd i'll use the HK or the AR


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## uscitizen

That contraption will not fit in my holster.

my 1911 Remington Rand does fine for me.


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## Spoonman

uscitizen said:


> That contraption will not fit in my holster.
> 
> my 1911 Remington Rand does fine for me.



the m 9 goes in the holster


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## Big Fitz

spoonman said:
			
		

> but if i really want to take on a crowd i'll use the HK or the AR



Just remember:

"There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of high explosives."

For crowds, I recommend a Mark-19 fully automatic grenade launcher: vehicle mounted.


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## iggy pop

uscitizen said:


> That contraption will not fit in my holster.
> 
> my 1911 Remington Rand does fine for me.



An M1911A1, gray barrel, wood grain handle?


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## Ringel05

Big Fitz said:


> spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but if i really want to take on a crowd i'll use the HK or the AR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember:
> 
> "There is no problem that cannot be solved with the proper application of high explosives."
> 
> For crowds, I recommend a Mark-19 fully automatic grenade launcher: vehicle mounted.
Click to expand...


AC130U Hercules Spooky.......... Serious crowd control........


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## Zona

Ringel05 said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I still have an Ithica M37.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Thats what you comment on?*  Wow.
> 
> (Oh and that was Ice-T's wife.  Damn she was hot).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah?  So?
> Of course she's hot, so are lots of women.  Ya want I should pound my pud and spew jisum all over my keyboard and screen while looking at that picture?  I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Uh, ewwwww.


Spoonman said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.
> 
> (and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i like my mossberg 500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but if i really want to take on a crowd i'll use the HK or the AR
Click to expand...


Is your penis actually inverted its so small?


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## Spoonman

Zona said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thats what you comment on?*  Wow.
> 
> (Oh and that was Ice-T's wife.  Damn she was hot).
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah?  So?
> Of course she's hot, so are lots of women.  Ya want I should pound my pud and spew jisum all over my keyboard and screen while looking at that picture?  I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uh, ewwwww.
> 
> 
> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well worth the money.  I mean you never know when 25 people will break into your house.
> 
> (and before you start, I have a remington pump with a hand grip myself...but come on..overkill?)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i like my mossberg 500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but if i really want to take on a crowd i'll use the HK or the AR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is your penis actually inverted its so small?
Click to expand...

 not even in cold water


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## St.Blues

That Kel Tec is a nice design.. But, the quality of Kel Tec is not up to par.. 
You may want to keep looking.


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## St.Blues

Spoonman said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> That contraption will not fit in my holster.
> 
> my 1911 Remington Rand does fine for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the m 9 goes in the holster
> 
> 
> I carry a first year issue Kahr K9 with corbon plus p's.. Great gun. Never failed me.. not once.
Click to expand...


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## Ringel05

St.Blues said:


> That Kel Tec is a nice design.. But, the quality of Kel Tec is not up to par..
> You may want to keep looking.



Old school thinking, haven't been around the firearms market for a while, have ya. 
Kel-tec isn't the low quality junk it used to be.


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## St.Blues

Ringel05 said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> That Kel Tec is a nice design.. But, the quality of Kel Tec is not up to par..
> You may want to keep looking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old school thinking, haven't been around the firearms market for a while, have ya.
> Kel-tec isn't the low quality junk it used to be.
Click to expand...


I have been away for a while.. I have what I need, at least for now. a dealer near me sells kel Tec I'll stop in to see if he has that model. 
Are they still made in China?


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## Ringel05

St.Blues said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> That Kel Tec is a nice design.. But, the quality of Kel Tec is not up to par..
> You may want to keep looking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old school thinking, haven't been around the firearms market for a while, have ya.
> Kel-tec isn't the low quality junk it used to be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have been away for a while.. I have what I need, at least for now. a dealer near me sells kel Tec I'll stop in to see if he has that model.
> *Are they still made in China?*
Click to expand...


 Kel-tecs are made in Florida, always have been.


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## St.Blues

Ringel05 said:


> St.Blues said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Old school thinking, haven't been around the firearms market for a while, have ya.
> Kel-tec isn't the low quality junk it used to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been away for a while.. I have what I need, at least for now. a dealer near me sells kel Tec I'll stop in to see if he has that model.
> *Are they still made in China?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kel-tecs are made in Florida, always have been.
Click to expand...


I think Florida is just the importer. Lets both look into it. If that's US made and now up to standard I may be a buyer. too. Cool Gun.


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## GHook93

Douger said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tactical piece of shit. Set my alarm off and I'll introduce you to a Mossberg 500 marine.
Click to expand...


You know Jews created the Mossberg. Doesn't that mean you need to give it back? You can't accept anything from those dirty Jews!


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## Jos

GHook93 said:


> You know Jews created the Mossberg. Doesn't that mean you need to give it back? You can't accept anything from those dirty Jews!


I bought a jewish shotgun -10% off


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## JackDan

Ringel05 said:


> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun



/adds to wish list


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## GHook93

Baddest gun in the world!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c]&#x202a;AA-12. World&#39;s deadliest shotgun!&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


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## Divine Wind

xsited1 said:


> I want one!  But $880?  Shouldn't you get an old East European knock-off for $112.82 instead?


A little steep for my blood too, but good pump shotgun is a great, all around weapon for both hunting and home defense. 

I'm a bit old school with a Mossberg 500 in camo with sling and the plug removed even though I only keep 3 rounds in the magazine to save the spring.  Besides, the sound of me working the action is sure to send most punks running.


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## CoolBreeze

Mine are a Mossburg 500 Turkey gun in 12 guage and an American Arms single tuber in 410.


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## freedombecki

My shots are fired from this little caveat:


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## Ringel05

freedombecki said:


> My shots are fired from this little caveat:



"There are only two forces in the world, the sword and the spirit. In the long run the sword will always be conquered by the spirit." 
     Napoleon Bonaparte


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## The Infidel

GHook93 said:


> Baddest gun in the world!
> 
> &#x202a;AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun!&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube



Dear Santa,

I want one !!!!!!!


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## freedombecki

Ringel05 said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> 
> My shots are fired from this little caveat:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There are only two forces in the world, the sword and the spirit. In the long run the sword will always be conquered by the spirit."
>  Napoleon Bonaparte
Click to expand...


Ringel, you are a man of many surprises, and you just shot a bull's eye.

Kudos and g'night.


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## Mad Scientist

Ringel05 said:


> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun


Looks like a lot of stuff to fail you when you really need it. I like my weapons to be like me: Big and Simple! 

I'll stick with my Remington 870.


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## Ringel05

Mad Scientist said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Kel-tec KSG (Bull-pump)
> 
> Kel-Tec KSG 14 + 1 Pump Bull-Pup Tactical Shotgun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a lot of stuff to fail you when you really need it. I like my weapons to be like me: Big and Simple!
> 
> I'll stick with my Remington 870.
Click to expand...


Really no more than a typical pump action, the only extra part seems to be the feed tube select mechanism.


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## Dabs

Spoonman said:


> i like my mossberg 500



I'll pass on the guns, I'm not a gun gal....but I have a set of seashell windchimes just like these pictured!


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## St.Blues

Dabs said:


> Spoonman said:
> 
> 
> 
> i like my mossberg 500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll pass on the guns, I'm not a gun gal....but I have a set of seashell windchimes just like these pictured!
Click to expand...


You could stop a charging Buffalo with those chimes.


Blues


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## turtledude

If you want the best combat shotgun going buy one from Will Hayden (shown on Sons of Guns)

ONe of my friends works at a local range and through him I get the best stuff Will makes

Like this
AK Type Shotguns

for pure speed though, I have a couple Benelli M-1s

I've been shooting shotguns for 40 years.  was a world class ISU skeet shooter.  The Red Jacket jobs are about as good as they get

for competition I shoot a Beretta 391 in Sporting clays (gas gun).  I Beretta 682 with Briley's best tubes in American Skeet, a K-80 Olympic Skeet in ISU skeet, and  Remington 3200 in Olympic Trap.


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## turtledude

Bull pup shotguns tend to have crappy triggers.  that is the main weakness in the design


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## Ringel05

turtledude said:


> Bull pup shotguns tend to have crappy triggers.  that is the main weakness in the design



I have a Polish P64 pistol, the DA trigger pull is atrocious with the stock #24 mainspring.  For less than 20 dollars and 10 minutes of work I replaced it with a #19 mainspring.  The trigger is no longer crappy but that's not really relevant to this shotgun since Kel-tek was aware of the problems with the bull pup design when they developed this one.  Progress, ain't it great.


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## turtledude

Ringel05 said:


> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bull pup shotguns tend to have crappy triggers.  that is the main weakness in the design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Polish P64 pistol, the DA trigger pull is atrocious with the stock #24 mainspring.  For less than 20 dollars and 10 minutes of work I replaced it with a #19 mainspring.  The trigger is no longer crappy but that's not really relevant to this shotgun since Kel-tek was aware of the problems with the bull pup design when they developed this one.  Progress, ain't it great.
Click to expand...


 I admit that Keltec is one of the few brands I don't own.  The common wisdom on them is good designs with sometimes sloppy manufacturing  --at least when it comes to their pistols. One gun shop owner noted that once you send one back for repair it will always work well after that

I think for most people a semi auto shotgun is better than a pump.  As Massaad Ayoob noted in at least a couple of his books, he trusts the engineers at Remington more than he trusted sweat covered hands in a critical situation.  I grew up shooting skeet with pump guns.  I have seen lots of people short stroke a pump gun shooting clays etc.


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## Ringel05

turtledude said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> turtledude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bull pup shotguns tend to have crappy triggers.  that is the main weakness in the design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a Polish P64 pistol, the DA trigger pull is atrocious with the stock #24 mainspring.  For less than 20 dollars and 10 minutes of work I replaced it with a #19 mainspring.  The trigger is no longer crappy but that's not really relevant to this shotgun since Kel-tek was aware of the problems with the bull pup design when they developed this one.  Progress, ain't it great.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit that Keltec is one of the few brands I don't own.  The common wisdom on them is good designs with sometimes sloppy manufacturing  --at least when it comes to their pistols. One gun shop owner noted that once you send one back for repair it will always work well after that
> 
> I think for most people a semi auto shotgun is better than a pump.  As Massaad Ayoob noted in at least a couple of his books, he trusts the engineers at Remington more than he trusted sweat covered hands in a critical situation.  I grew up shooting skeet with pump guns.  I have seen lots of people short stroke a pump gun shooting clays etc.
Click to expand...


Kel-tec has come a long way in the last 7, 8 plus years and most of the bad you'll hear about them is from their earlier productions which were pretty much junk.  Today, however, is a different story, they fixed their problems and are now producing pretty high quality products at reasonable prices and I'm getting this information from the gun dealers I know who.  I believe they (Kel-tec) are now the 2nd or 3rd largest firearms manufacturer in the country.    
As for pump vs auto, not everyone shoots skeet and everyone has their favorite weapons, I don't presume to tell people which ones they should think is best for them, I provide options and let them choose,  Oh and I prefer pump because I'm trained tactically in it's use, believe it or not but I have a Chinese knock off of an Ithica that I've used for years without one single problem.  Go figure.


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## Sunni Man

It has sites ?!?!

 That's retarded.


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## Ringel05

Sunni Man said:


> It has sites ?!?!
> 
> That's retarded.



Web sites?  why is that retarded? 

I guess you've never shot slug before and you'd be surprised how tight a number 4 buck will will stay over a distance of 10 yards.  One of my requirements when looking for a shotgun is ghost sights or the ability to mount ghost sights.


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## Sunni Man

I would venture to say that the barrel is too short for slugs to accuratly hunt game animals.

 And is more suited to tactical or home defense.


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## Ringel05

Sunni Man said:


> I would venture to say that the barrel is too short for slugs to accuratly hunt game animals.
> 
> And is more suited to tactical or home defense.



Most indoor ranges only allow slugs and if it's the only place to practice.............
What's cool is when when we're doing requal, we shoot from downrange and can use buck.  We also shoot in low light situations with the ghost sights, they're extremely helpful.


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## BoycottTheday

Nice idea with the dual tubes butt i like the bayonet my 590 has.

I can load a shotgun pretty fast so im not really worried about capacity.


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## Divine Wind

My Mossberg 500 and sidearm, a family heirloom Ithaca 1911A1 of WWII vintage.


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