# Psych exams for gun purchases



## YoursTruly (May 28, 2022)

The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave. 

The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats. 

So, I was thinking (Oh noooo. Here he goes again)
If the right came up with a law that states one must pass a psych exam in order to purchase a gun, what should applicants be disqualified for.

I know, I know. It's retarded. But doing nothing is the government allowing more mass killings. I get the point, because I'm pro 2A.  Laws don't stop crime. Gun laws aren't going to stop mass shooting.  I get all that.  So I'm asking for some common sense here.

Me personally, I didn't mind getting a gun permit. In fact, I bragged about it when I first got it. Even thought having to get one, meant I was allowing the state government to infringe upon my 2A. But in the end, I'm still able to carry. I'm still able to put myself in a position to save lives if the chance arises. 

So I'm thinking, the things that would disqualify someone from legally buying a gun would be the following. Please add your ideas. 

1. Anyone with a record of violence in their recent history. Say 5 years. (per 911 calls or provable reports)
2. Anyone who's committed any sort of crime, using a gun. Whether it was fired or not. (holstered doesn't count as using)
3. Anyone with a history of mental disorders in the last 5 years. Especially those on mental meds to control their behavior.

One thing that needs to be highly protected are decent gun owners from false accusations.  Decent gun owners pose no threat to society. In fact, in many instances, they've protected and saved many lives using their weapons.  Those peoples rights should in no way, shape or form, be infringed upon.  
People like Ramos, I could care less about their rights. 



Let's dance.


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## fncceo (May 28, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> If the right came up with a law that states one must pass a psych exam in order to purchase a gun, what should applicants be disqualified for.



Except that it's un-Constitutional.

Would we suggest mental health tests to exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed right?


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## scruffy (May 28, 2022)

You can't be a rightie.

Psych test? Srsly?


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 28, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


Psych exams for voting.

Poll tests before you vote.

Nobody without a high school education gets to live.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 28, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


Prior restraint of a Constitutionally Protected Right is by definition infringing upon that right.

Absolutely not.

The most likely outcome of such a proposal being made into law is that the people people who most need some help will not seek it.

Why not just fully enforce existing law?  If someone is nuts and dangerous get a court to deem them so after a proper evaluation which would then render them ineligible.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 28, 2022)

The left probably wants a license for free speech.


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## TroglocratsRdumb (May 28, 2022)

Did you vote for Obama twice?
Does AOC make sense to you?
Are there more than two genders?


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## Leo123 (May 28, 2022)

Mental health professionals are mostly mentally ill.


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## BackAgain (May 28, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The left probably wants a license for free speech.


Censorship is for your own good.


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## White 6 (May 28, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


On the " If the right came up with a law that states one must pass a psych exam in order to purchase a gun" thing, I have not seen a require psych exam from either of the two, in legislation, and certainly not from the Right.

The term "decent gun owner" it kind of nebulous and in the eye of the beholder, so I do not know what kind of protection could be assured using it.


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## Peace (May 28, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> Did you vote for Obama twice?
> Does AOC make sense to you?
> Are there more than two genders?


Voted Libertarian twice… I would sleep with AOC but she never makes sense… There are 57 States of confusion according to Obama…

Anyhoo, Psych tests ain’t happening…


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## night_son (May 28, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...



You sally forth under the *ass*umption guns themselves are responsible for the recent and ongoing spate of mass killings. Really? Assigning blame to inanimate objects? What you and many other Americans are missing or forgetting is the price _for_ great freedom Americans have always or rather, used to be willing to pay. Even in today's America I could walk out to my truck five minutes from now, start the engine and drive from the East Coast to the West. _That_ is a heady level of unparalleled freedom you won't find anywhere else on planet earth.

So, the price of freedom—of keeping great freedom and being able to still exercise it—includes rare but real risks. One of those risks we take to keep and enjoy our freedom is the rare chance of being shot at by some nutjob every time we leave our homes. Entreating the government to take away some inanimate object we've always lived with (and rely on for self-defense) is the same ask asking the government to take back a bit of our freedom. Do you really want to trade a percentage of your freedom for the illusion of better security? If so, you're not the kind of fellow American I can identify with.

Do I really need to state the obvious here? Criminals hellbent on killing people with guns will not submit to a psychological exam to get one. No, it sounds to me like you feel a sudden, overwhelming urge to pander to the ideological bent of the political left.

You know . . . cattle waiting for a ride to the slaughterhouse are also guarded by men with guns. Think about it. Will you put absolute faith in other men with guns when you yourself are not permitted to own one?


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## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

night_son said:


> You sally forth under the *ass*umption guns themselves are responsible for the recent and ongoing spate of mass killings. Really? Assigning blame to inanimate objects? What you and many other Americans are missing or forgetting is the price _for_ great freedom Americans have always or rather, used to be willing to pay. Even in today's America I could walk out to my truck five minutes from now, start the engine and drive from the East Coast to the West. _That_ is a heady level of unparalleled freedom you won't find anywhere else on planet earth.
> 
> So, the price of freedom—of keeping great freedom and being able to still exercise it—includes rare but real risks. One of those risks we take to keep and enjoy our freedom is the rare chance of being shot at by some nutjob every time we leave our homes. Entreating the government to take away some inanimate object we've always lived with (and rely on for self-defense) is the same ask asking the government to take back a bit of our freedom. Do you really want to trade a percentage of your freedom for the illusion of better security? If so, you're not the kind of fellow American I can identify with.
> 
> ...


"Freedom is mess and comes with a whole lot of risks".

For those who can't handle it there's a world of countries available to pick from where they can feel "Safe".

In reality the gov't isn't going to protect us, the police usually just show up in time to write reports and count the bodies. If you want protection you'd better be willing and able to handle it on your own.


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## Batcat (May 29, 2022)

Once I told a guy that I liked thunderstorms. 

He apparently had taken a college course in psychology and he told me that I was a very violent person.

I am now 75 and have owned firearms since I was in my teens and never have been arrested for anything. I have two or three traffic tickets (one for an out of date tag) but that is it. I have also legally carried a concealed weapon for a quarter of a century. Never had any reason to draw it. 

An anti-gun psychologist might give me a test and determine that I was a very violent person and suspend my rights to own a firearm. 

In passing I used to call thunderstorms in. (Fairly easy to do if your live in The Tampa Bay Area of Florida.) I was pretty good at it but my wife at the time raised hell when I called a storm in and a light bulb in the ceiling light fixture shattered from a close lighting strike.


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## frigidweirdo (May 29, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> Did you vote for Obama twice?
> Does AOC make sense to you?
> Are there more than two genders?



You're worried about people saying there are more than two genders. 

Others are worried their kids might get shot and killed at school. 

Can you imagine?


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## theHawk (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


People should need to pass a psych exam in order to vote.

If you don‘t qualify to own a gun, then you can’t vote.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 29, 2022)

frigidweirdo said:


> You're worried about people saying there are more than two genders.
> 
> Others are worried their kids might get shot and killed at school.


...by people who believe in 75 genders...


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## theHawk (May 29, 2022)

frigidweirdo said:


> You're worried about people saying there are more than two genders


That’s because those people are mentally unstable and/or mentally ill.


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## Leo123 (May 29, 2022)

Batcat said:


> Once I told a guy that I liked thunderstorms.
> 
> He apparently had taken a college course in psychology and he told me that I was a very violent person.
> 
> ...


Unless one can actually read minds, psychological evaluations are meaningless.   Hell, here we had a guy sending messages and TELLING people what he was going to do.   You don't need to be a 'shrink' to know the guy is loony-tuned.


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## jackflash (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


The psych field has its own built in lefty bias. Trusting the psych field for a non biased assessment of individuals mental stability is like trusting the foxes to guard the ole chicken coop. One would be far better off to hire an assessment of the crime problem within & outside the U.S. border by sociologists which WILL find out the negative factors that are contributing to the violence on America's streets.


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## jackflash (May 29, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> I have personal experience with the professional mental health community.   Most of them are mentally ill themselves.  I have a mentally handicapped son.   When he was little they told us (me and my wife) that our son would need to be put in an institution.   I found out that teachers for mentally handicapped students were mostly marking time until their pensions. as well.   Long story short, he's now 35, has a job and a daughter who is a straight A student.   I would NEVER trust any of them to come up with a mental assessment of anyone.


Leo 123 speakum truth!


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## Leo123 (May 29, 2022)

theHawk said:


> People should need to pass a psych exam in order to vote.
> 
> If you don‘t qualify to own a gun, then you can’t vote.


have personal experience with the professional mental health community.   Most of them are mentally ill themselves.  I have a mentally handicapped son.   When he was little they told us (me and my wife) that our son would need to be put in an institution.   I found out that teachers for mentally handicapped students were mostly marking time until their pensions. as well.   Long story short, he's now 35, has a job and a daughter who is a straight A student.   I would NEVER trust any of them to come up with a mental assessment of anyone.


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## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Except that it's un-Constitutional.
> 
> Would we suggest mental health tests to exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed right?



Guaranteed right for whacko's who kill 19 kids.


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## fncceo (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Guaranteed right for whacko's who kill 19 kids.



Guarantee the rights of any American don't get removed without due process.

Our country has struggled for more than two centuries to prevent that from happening.


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## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Guarantee the rights of any American don't get removed without due process.
> 
> Our country has struggled for more than two centuries to prevent that from happening.



We've been struggling for the wrong reasons, IMO.  Mass shooting are getting a lot worse.  I'm so pro life that I don't even hunt. I would if it was a matter of self preservation.  Nor would I have a problem drawing down on someone who's about to kill an innocent person.  In preservation of the innocent.

I'm a sane guy. And would have no problem taking a psych exam.  If I were to fail it, I'd get another test from a different psychologist. Someone who wasn't so left leaning, who was anti gun.  Maybe even a couple of them to prove the first one was bias and should not be giving psych exams. If a psychologist has a long record of denying folks, it'll be recorded and looked into and adjusted.

The conspiracy is that all shrinks are leftist anti gun liberals. That's not even close to being accurate.  Some, yes. All, no.


Lot's of scared people commenting on this thread. And some "surface level thinkers" who aren't really pro life.


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## fncceo (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> I'm a sane guy. And would have no problem taking a psych exam.



A psych exam isn't a math exam.  Whether you pass or fail depends more on the person evaluating your answers than the answers themselves.

I don't care how sane you are, there is no way you can guarantee with 100% accuracy you would pass or fail one.  The process of evaluating the questions is just too subjective.

Any overzealous anti-gun advocate would consider it his moral duty to fail as many applicants as he could.  

If a test were standardized (as would be a minimum legal requirement) there will quickly become a ready market in videos and pamphlets on what to say to pass such an exam.  There already is a market for such things to help people pass police psych exams.


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## sparky (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> I'm a* sane* guy. And would have no problem taking a psych exam. If I were to fail it, I'd get another test from a different psychologist.


well that's the _thing_ Truly

you're asking for some entity to* define* _sanity ,normalcy _

a rather _sisyphean_ feat , considering our _national_ gestalt ....

~S~


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## Canon Shooter (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> So, I was thinking (Oh noooo. Here he goes again)
> If the right came up with a law that states one must pass a psych exam in order to purchase a gun, what should applicants be disqualified for.



Why doesn't the left come up with something? Last time I checked they were in control of Congress.

But, I'll play along.

You want someone to have a psych eval before they can buy a gun? Fine.

I want you to have one before you vote.

I want you to have one before you exercise your 1st Amendment.

I want you to have one before you exercise your 5th Amendment.

I want you to have one before you get, or when you renew, your driver license. Hell, that one'll be easy because you have no Constitutional right to a driver license.

Would you be willing to undergo psych evals for those?


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## BluesLegend (May 29, 2022)

Fine, then illegals have to pass a psych exam otherwise they are immediately deported, deal?  Psych exam to get an abortion? Psych exam to mutilate yourself in a gender change surgery? Psych exam to register as a Democrat?


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## B. Kidd (May 29, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> Did you vote for Obama twice?
> Does AOC make sense to you?
> Are there more than two genders?



If so, then no gun for you!!


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## Rigby5 (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...



Except that those restriction from legal gun purchases already exist and have existed for decades.


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## Rigby5 (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Guaranteed right for whacko's who kill 19 kids.



Certainly.
For example, you should not be able to torture or rape them.

But the important thing is that BEFORE they killed anyone, that they should be equal under the law, to anyone.
What you seem to forget it that the single most dangerous people to arm in a democratic republic, are mercenaries who provide power in return for money.  That is the police and military.  They are the ones who threaten the democratic republic the most.


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## Rigby5 (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> We've been struggling for the wrong reasons, IMO.  Mass shooting are getting a lot worse.  I'm so pro life that I don't even hunt. I would if it was a matter of self preservation.  Nor would I have a problem drawing down on someone who's about to kill an innocent person.  In preservation of the innocent.
> 
> I'm a sane guy. And would have no problem taking a psych exam.  If I were to fail it, I'd get another test from a different psychologist. Someone who wasn't so left leaning, who was anti gun.  Maybe even a couple of them to prove the first one was bias and should not be giving psych exams. If a psychologist has a long record of denying folks, it'll be recorded and looked into and adjusted.
> 
> ...



But that is pointless because the criminally insane know perfectly well how to appear perfectly sane.
You can never tell by a one time test.

If you want to tell who is dangerous, you have to provide public health care that allow people to share inner problems early on, so that the professional can gain the whole progression over time.


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## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> But that is pointless because the criminally insane know perfectly well how to appear perfectly sane.
> You can never tell by a one time test.
> 
> If you want to tell who is dangerous, you have to provide public health care that allow people to share inner problems early on, so that the professional can gain the whole progression over time.



Again, there is no 100% perfection when it comes to humans.  No one is looking for perfection. Just trying to save lives. 

This "Kill my kids but don't take my guns" attitude is just stupid.


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## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Certainly.
> For example, you should not be able to torture or rape them.
> 
> But the important thing is that BEFORE they killed anyone, that they should be equal under the law, to anyone.
> What you seem to forget it that the single most dangerous people to arm in a democratic republic, are mercenaries who provide power in return for money.  That is the police and military.  They are the ones who threaten the democratic republic the most.



Stop with the "democrat republic."  We haven't been that since the lobbyist bought our politicians. That includes the NRA, big pharma, MIC etc etc etc  Our politicians represent them. Not us.


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## BluesLegend (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> This "Kill my kids but don't take my guns" attitude is just stupid.


Taking guns from law abiding citizens accomplishes what? Certified evil school shooters are 1 in a million minimum, tell us how gun control will fix that. Now go work on the real problem, gun control will do jack shit.


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## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

BluesLegend said:


> Taking guns from law abiding citizens accomplishes what? Certified evil school shooters are 1 in a million minimum, tell us how gun control will fix that. Now go work on the real problem, gun control will do jack shit.




That's exactly what I'd like to avoid.  How many times must I say it, "We can't have laws that restrict decent gun owners.  But we need a system in place, backed by laws, that prevent mentally ill people from LEGALLY buying guns.  The only way to reduce the threat is to force people to take some sort of legitimate psych exam before they're eligible to buy a gun. 
I don't like that idea, but until the people of this country calm the F down and stop shooting everyone, I don't see any other way.  
I can pass a psych test. Almost everyone I know can pass one.  

Is it a 100% solution? Of course not. Nothing is, when it comes to humans. No one is looking for perfection. It's stupid to even think perfection can be accomplished. 

The goal is to put the guns into the hands of decent people & reduce the amount of psycho's with guns. Psych exams can show signs of some mental or anger issues. 

A decent psychologist could've spent 5 minutes with this Ramos dude and discovered there was something wrong. Just the fact that he was living with his grandparents, instead of his parents showed something was wrong. An interview with his parents, to get both sides of the story would've undoubtedly put Ramos on the no buy list. 

Again, it's not 100%.  No one is looking for perfection.


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## CrusaderFrank (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...



...shall not be infringed


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## CrusaderFrank (May 29, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Except that it's un-Constitutional.
> 
> Would we suggest mental health tests to exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed right?



Civics test for voting.


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## iceberg (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


Let's not


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## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

CrusaderFrank said:


> ...shall not be infringed



The states have been infringing on the 2A since before the ink dried. 
The 2A doesn't say anything about ex cons on parole, felons not being able to buy a gun. So their rights have been infringed.  The 2A doesn't give states the authority to force permits on gun owners. But they do. 

And those people with permits, don't mind having them. People who pass a psych test won't mind showing your their card either.

Are you part of the "Kill my kids, but don't take my guns" crowd?


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## Missourian (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


As long as a psych exam is required to exercise the rest of peoples Constitutional rights...like the right to vote...the right to protest....the right to free speech...


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## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

Missourian said:


> As long as a psych exam is required to exercise the rest of peoples Constitutional rights...like the right to vote...the right to protest....the right to free speech...



Talking & voting never killed anyone. Neither did peaceful protests (actually peaceful)

P.S.  One problem at a time.  BTW, if voting worked, they wouldn't let us do it.


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## Pete7469 (May 29, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Except that it's un-Constitutional.
> 
> Would we suggest mental health tests to exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed right?


*How about a psyche eval to vote, which actually isn't a "right"?

There wouldn't be a democrook party if such a law was enacted.*


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## Rigby5 (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Again, there is no 100% perfection when it comes to humans.  No one is looking for perfection. Just trying to save lives.
> 
> This "Kill my kids but don't take my guns" attitude is just stupid.



No, its not stupid at all, but just looking at the bigger picture.
If you look at the biggest threats, it is not isolated criminals or crazies.
It is organized despots like Hitler, Mussolini, Napoleon, and about every single dictator or monarch who existed before the French Revolution.
The US as a democratic republic is a very new and fragile experiment.
So it is not at all stupid to fear the return of the autocratic dictatorship.
In fact, it is likely the US experiment in a democratic republic has already failed.
The evidence is how the federal government totally ignores the constitution, and we things like a federal War on Drugs, mandated sentences, asset forfeiture, etc.

We can protect kids by other means than draconian gun laws, but there is no way to maintain a democratic republic without an armed population.


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## Rigby5 (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The states have been infringing on the 2A since before the ink dried.
> The 2A doesn't say anything about ex cons on parole, felons not being able to buy a gun. So their rights have been infringed.  The 2A doesn't give states the authority to force permits on gun owners. But they do.
> 
> And those people with permits, don't mind having them. People who pass a psych test won't mind showing your their card either.
> ...



The states doing anything, does not infringe upon the 2nd amendment.
The 2nd amendment only restricts the feds.


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## Michelle420 (May 29, 2022)

Hold people legally accountable if they are aware of someone's mentally ill or unstable state and don't report the concerns. How many times have these mass shooter nutters said it all on youtube or Facebook, or Instagram about their plans prior to the incident. Prevention starts with those closest to the nutter.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

frigidweirdo said:


> You're worried about people saying there are more than two genders.
> 
> Others are worried their kids might get shot and killed at school.
> 
> Can you imagine?


Statistically your kid is more likely to be raped by a teacher than to ever witness a school shooting much less be the victim of one.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

jackflash said:


> The psych field has its own built in lefty bias. Trusting the psych field for a non biased assessment of individuals mental stability is like trusting the foxes to guard the ole chicken coop. One would be far better off to hire an assessment of the crime problem within & outside the U.S. border by sociologists which WILL find out the negative factors that are contributing to the violence on America's streets.


You don't necessarily even need a degree of any kind to understand why we are becoming ever more violent as a society.


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## bripat9643 (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


Clear violation of the 2nd Amendment.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Guaranteed right for whacko's who kill 19 kids.


And for the 329,999,999 who didn't and never will.

If we're going to start stripping All Americans of their most basic rights because some will abuse them and commit crimes we won't have any rights left at all.


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## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> We've been struggling for the wrong reasons, IMO.  Mass shooting are getting a lot worse.  I'm so pro life that I don't even hunt. I would if it was a matter of self preservation.  Nor would I have a problem drawing down on someone who's about to kill an innocent person.  In preservation of the innocent.
> 
> I'm a sane guy. And would have no problem taking a psych exam.  If I were to fail it, I'd get another test from a different psychologist. Someone who wasn't so left leaning, who was anti gun.  Maybe even a couple of them to prove the first one was bias and should not be giving psych exams. If a psychologist has a long record of denying folks, it'll be recorded and looked into and adjusted.
> 
> ...


Might want to educate yourself on that subject.









						Psychologists Looked In The Mirror … And Saw A Bunch Of Liberals
					

When New York University psychologist Jonathan Haidt asked about a thousand attendees at the annual meeting of the Society for Personality and Social Psychology…




					fivethirtyeight.com
				












						Are Psychologists Too Politically Close-Minded Today?
					

And how this might affect our capacities to heal divides.




					www.psychologytoday.com


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Lot's of scared people commenting on this thread. And some "surface level thinkers" who aren't really pro life.


"Pro Life" has never been about anything but abortion.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

fncceo said:


> I don't care how sane you are, there is no way you can guarantee with 100% accuracy you would pass or fail one. The process of evaluating the questions is just too subjective.


I once had a psychologist say flatly that 90% of people who think they need to carry for self defense are too paranoid to be trusted with a gun.

That level of thinking and judgementalism permeates both psychiatry and psychology.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The states have been infringing on the 2A since before the ink dried.
> The 2A doesn't say anything about ex cons on parole, felons not being able to buy a gun. So their rights have been infringed.  The 2A doesn't give states the authority to force permits on gun owners. But they do.
> 
> And those people with permits, don't mind having them. People who pass a psych test won't mind showing your their card either.
> ...



When you say things like that it tells me who and what you are and you're not worthy of a reply. 

Get yourself right with the Lord.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 29, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The states doing anything, does not infringe upon the 2nd amendment.
> The 2nd amendment only restricts the feds.


Except for that clumsy 14th Amendment which makes the 2nd apply to the states too, but as originally intended (before the stupid 14th) it was a ban on federal authority.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I once had a psychologist say flatly that 90% of people who think they need to carry for self defense are too paranoid to be trusted with a gun.
> 
> That level of thinking and judgementalism permeates both psychiatry and psychology.


They should have no say.  Only treat.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> This "Kill my kids but don't take my guns" attitude is just stupid.


And yet that is the product of only your own mind.

Might want to reconsider your position.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> But we need a system in place, backed by laws, that prevent mentally ill people from LEGALLY buying guns


That is covered by existing law.  How about we just fully enforce existing law?


----------



## 2aguy (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


 
The typical anti-gun response……give us the useless gun laws we want now or we will take all guns…..

Next mass public shooting happens because the useless gun laws did nothing….

Anti-gun fanatics?

Give us more anti-gun laws that don’t work, or we will take all of your guns


That you don’t understand this makes you part of the problem.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The states have been infringing on the 2A since before the ink dried.
> The 2A doesn't say anything about ex cons on parole, felons not being able to buy a gun. So their rights have been infringed. The 2A doesn't give states the authority to force permits on gun owners. But they do.


Well that's a lie.  Those who have been convicted of felonies or certified by a court as mentally defective lost their rights through due process.  All rights, even the right to life itself may be lost through due process.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...



That'd be an infringement

/ Thread


----------



## 2aguy (May 29, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Except that it's un-Constitutional.
> 
> Would we suggest mental health tests to exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed right?



See….now you gave away the real goal……yes, yes, just like the socialists in Russia used mental health against resistors and political opposition they would love to use mental health as a weapon


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Talking & voting never killed anyone. Neither did peaceful protests (actually peaceful)
> 
> P.S.  One problem at a time.  BTW, if voting worked, they wouldn't let us do it.


Talking and voting have resulted in the deaths of millions.  That's how you motivate a nation to do unspeakable things.

Had Hitler not been a great orator he could have never steered Germany down the path of Nazism.


----------



## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> *Talking and voting have resulted in the deaths of millions.*  That's how you motivate a nation to do unspeakable things.
> 
> Had Hitler not been a great orator he could have never steered Germany down the path of Nazism.



That's like saying spoons and forks cause obesity.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> See….now you gave away the real goal……yes, yes, just like the socialists in Russia used mental health against resistors and political opposition they would love to use mental health as a weapon


With the end result being that millions of people who own guns or would like to in the future would be afraid to seek counseling when they do have problems.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> That's like saying spoons and forks cause obesity.


Only to the mentally deficient. 

How many wives and husbands have been beaten, stabbed, or shot and killed because someone told their spouse they were cheating on them?

Words are the most powerful weapons on earth.


----------



## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

SassyIrishLass said:


> That'd be an infringement
> 
> / Thread



So it killing 19 children and two teachers.  A medical/psychological exam would really infringe on anything other than a few hours out of my day. And maybe a few bucks. 
The end result, 18yr olds would have to buy guns illegally. They'd take the risk of buying them from an under cover cop and getting arrest. They'd have to pay a lot more for them because of the black market that would be created.  As well as some of the other safeguards that society itself has in place, that don't require laws. Just decent people ratting out bad guys.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Except that it's un-Constitutional.
> 
> Would we suggest mental health tests to exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed right?


Alright, so we do nothing on either end. We don't require psych evaluations for gun purchases because it's unconstitutional, and we don't harden the schools because we're too afraid of subjecting the kids to a prison-like environment. 

There WILL be more shootings like this until someone let's go of their pride and actually puts the kids at the forefront of their decision making process. 

I am thoroughly convinced neither party wishes to do that.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> So it killing 19 children and two teachers.  A medical/psychological exam would really infringe on anything other than a few hours out of my day. And maybe a few bucks.
> The end result, 18yr olds would have to buy guns illegally. They'd take the risk of buying them from an under cover cop and getting arrest. They'd have to pay a lot more for them because of the black market that would be created.  As well as some of the other safeguards that society itself has in place, that don't require laws. Just decent people ratting out bad guys.


And in the end that requirement not only strips every American of their most basic rights, it would have exactly the opposite result you claim you want.

Millions of those who need help would avoid ever getting it for fear of losing their right to keep and bear.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> Alright, so we do nothing on either end. We don't require psych evaluations for gun purchases because it's unconstitutional, and we don't harden the schools because we're too afraid of subjecting the kids to a prison-like environment.
> 
> There WILL be more shootings like this until someone let's go of their pride and actually puts the kids at the forefront of their decision making process.
> 
> I am thoroughly convinced neither party wishes to do that.


Just fully enforce existing law and most of these issues could be solved.


----------



## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> With the end result being that millions of people who own guns or would like to in the future would be afraid to seek counseling when they do have problems.



Scared of what? Getting help? Getting treatment and getting through what ever is troubling them, so they can get their minds clear and put their troubles behind them? 

I wished my dad would've gotten that kind of help before he shot my brother.  He's still be alive.


----------



## Thinker101 (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


Get back to us after you require a Psych exam for politicians.


----------



## 2aguy (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> So it killing 19 children and two teachers.  A medical/psychological exam would really infringe on anything other than a few hours out of my day. And maybe a few bucks.
> The end result, 18yr olds would have to buy guns illegally. They'd take the risk of buying them from an under cover cop and getting arrest. They'd have to pay a lot more for them because of the black market that would be created.  As well as some of the other safeguards that society itself has in place, that don't require laws. Just decent people ratting out bad guys.



Yeah, for you….but the democrats already showed their hand when their shrinks tried to bar soldiers from owning guns because they had cases of insomnia…….


----------



## flan327 (May 29, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> The left probably wants a license for free speech.


Why are you LYING?


----------



## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> And in the end that requirement not only strips every American of their most basic rights, it would have exactly the opposite result you claim you want.
> 
> Millions of those who need help would avoid ever getting it for fear of losing their right to keep and bear.



You're letting fear control you mind.   You're not scared that someone's going to shoot up another school. You're just scared someone might find you mentally incompetent and take your guns.

That's sick, bro. Really sick.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Just fully enforce existing law and most of these issues could be solved.


What happens when nobody wants to? Because that's where we are.


----------



## SassyIrishLass (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> So it killing 19 children and two teachers.  A medical/psychological exam would really infringe on anything other than a few hours out of my day. And maybe a few bucks.
> The end result, 18yr olds would have to buy guns illegally. They'd take the risk of buying them from an under cover cop and getting arrest. They'd have to pay a lot more for them because of the black market that would be created.  As well as some of the other safeguards that society itself has in place, that don't require laws. Just decent people ratting out bad guys.



Shall not be infringed. Your idea is an infringement


----------



## 2aguy (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Scared of what? Getting help? Getting treatment and getting through what ever is troubling them, so they can get their minds clear and put their troubles behind them?
> 
> I wished my dad would've gotten that kind of help before he shot my brother.  He's still be alive.




Yep….before you write a book that could lead to 200 millions deaths around the world, you should also get
A psych exam…….Right?

Before the nuts in the democrat party can run for office, they should get psych exams from Republican shrinks….right?

That is where what you want leads


----------



## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah, for you….but the democrats already showed their hand when their shrinks tried to bar soldiers from owning guns because they had cases of insomnia…….




PTSD can cause insomnia.  Amongst other things. Like violent outrage, killing your spouse.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> What happens when nobody wants to? Because that's where we are.


That isn't true.  A whole lot of people do.  Getting it done however will take a concerted and sustained effort.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> PTSD can cause insomnia.  Amongst other things. Like violent outrage, killing your spouse.


So can any number of other things such as an annoying spouse.


----------



## 2aguy (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Scared of what? Getting help? Getting treatment and getting through what ever is troubling them, so they can get their minds clear and put their troubles behind them?
> 
> I wished my dad would've gotten that kind of help before he shot my brother.  He's still be alive.



No….we know that leftists would weaponize mental health care against gun owners and republicans


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> So it killing 19 children and two teachers.  A medical/psychological exam would really infringe on anything other than a few hours out of my day. And maybe a few bucks.
> The end result, 18yr olds would have to buy guns illegally. They'd take the risk of buying them from an under cover cop and getting arrest. They'd have to pay a lot more for them because of the black market that would be created.  As well as some of the other safeguards that society itself has in place, that don't require laws. Just decent people ratting out bad guys.


Apply that to every right. It's only a few minutes of infringement, right?

But you're not willing to do that because you're a shit. You don't value some rights.

I have already said that I am willing to allocate tax dollars to free mental health care for everyone, but that will not be exclusive on the right. We defeat the purpose.


----------



## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep….before you write a book that could lead to 200 millions deaths around the world, you should also get
> A psych exam…….Right?
> 
> Before the nuts in the democrat party can run for office, they should get psych exams from Republican shrinks….right?
> ...




If you're going to stretch this out of proportion, just admit you're a surface level thinker. You're incapable of having a rational thought or discussion. And that topics that involve listening to both sides and then coming to a conclusion, is something you're also not capable of. 

Mark my words, if the GOP approaches this topic this way (ignoring it) in the coming months, you can kiss your red flood goodbye.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> That isn't true.  A whole lot of people do.  Getting it done however will take a concerted and sustained effort.



I'm not sure who those people are.


----------



## YoursTruly (May 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No….we know that leftists would weaponize mental health care against gun owners and republicans



The fear mongering is strong with you.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> I'm not sure who those people are.


You need to pay a lot more attention then.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> If you're going to stretch this out of proportion, just admit you're a surface level thinker. You're incapable of having a rational thought or discussion. And that topics that involve listening to both sides and then coming to a conclusion, is something you're also not capable of.
> 
> Mark my words, if the GOP approaches this topic this way (ignoring it) in the coming months, you can kiss your red flood goodbye.


We're not going to capitulate and we're still going to see the biggest red wave since 1984 in November.


----------



## 2aguy (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> If you're going to stretch this out of proportion, just admit you're a surface level thinker. You're incapable of having a rational thought or discussion. And that topics that involve listening to both sides and then coming to a conclusion, is something you're also not capable of.
> 
> Mark my words, if the GOP approaches this topic this way (ignoring it) in the coming months, you can kiss your red flood goodbye.



You idiots accuse others of being what you are….

You react to emotion, not reason…..I gave you a concrete example of leftists using mental health treatment for a non-critical case of insomnia to ban veterans their ability to own guns……

Then you have the rest of the psychiatrists who would ban any individual for fear of being sued….

You are a non- critical thinker with no understanding of who, and what the democrats are and what they will do to get their way.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The fear mongering is strong with you.


That's rich.



> Mark my words, if the GOP approaches this topic this way (ignoring it) in the coming months, you can kiss your red flood goodbye.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You need to pay a lot more attention then.



Well the vagueness of your post didn't lend itself to telling me who they were...


----------



## toobfreak (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue


Look, Ace, let me tell you a few things:

The one group of people who have NEVER ignored gun violence is the right, just that you progs don't want to hear about REAL causes and solutions because your real intent behind it all is just to advance a gun-grabbing agenda.
You don't know the first thing about psychology nor psychological testing whereas I do.  Not only have I studied testing methods most of my life, I've devoted a book toward psychological evaluation, and I'd be the first person here to tell you-- THERE AIN'T NO RELIABLE TEST.
All you'd end up with is a hundred people whose rights you'd curtail savagely for doing absolutely nothing wrong, for MAYBE every one person you actually stopped.  Of course, no one can even be sure of that since you can't identify nor count events that never occurred!

Back to the drawing board for you.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> We're not going to capitulate and we're still going to see the biggest red wave since 18984 in November.


The great red wave of November, 18984 BC


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> Well the vagueness of your post didn't lend itself to telling me who they were...


You didn't ask for details.

Listen to those such as Ted Cruz and millions of citizens who have been making this argument for decades.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> The great red wave of November, 18984 BC


Damnit!


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The fear mongering is strong with you.


Speak for yourself. You're the folks who act like guns are possessed objects that kill people. You never blame the person but an inanimate object that requires manipulation to operate.

Fear? Do you wish to lecture us on fear?


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Damnit!


Busted!


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You didn't ask for details.
> 
> Listen to those such as Ted Cruz and millions of citizens who have been making this argument for decades.



Ted Cruz, granted.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

Imagine just how many people at or near the edge will be motivated to violence if a new requirement for passing a phycological test or loss of their firearms will be pushed over the edge by such a requirement and the carnage that would follow.


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Again, there is no 100% perfection when it comes to humans.  No one is looking for perfection. Just trying to save lives.
> 
> This "Kill my kids but don't take my guns" attitude is just stupid.



I'll ask you again: On what basis would you have denied Ramos the right to purchase a firearm?

You've mentioned his age and "past crimes", neither of which is valid. The law says a person must be 18. Ramos was. If you don't like that, change the law. But you can't deny someone a Constitutional right because you don't like the law. Then you mentioned his past crimes, although it's not even clear that he had a juvenile record.

So, given that those two reasons you gave are wholly invalid, on what basis do you deny him his Constitutional right?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> Busted!


I always admit being human and never claim perfection.  The only way to never make a mistake is to never try.


----------



## toobfreak (May 29, 2022)

Leo123 said:


> Unless one can actually read minds, psychological evaluations are meaningless.



At best, psych evaluations can suggest TRAITS and TENDENCIES, but no testing can predict definite, specific future actions, that is why many of the most gruesome serial murders are often described as "model citizens" by people that knew them before the crime.


----------



## Missourian (May 29, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin. If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.



Those who trade liberty for security deserve neither.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> At best, psych evaluations can suggest TRAITS and TENDENCIES, but no testing can predict definite, specific future actions, that is why many of the most gruesome serial murders are often described as "model citizens" by people that knew them before the crime.


Imagine a "character test" be applied before you can purchase a firearm.

You must get 10 people to certify your good character before you can purchase a firearm.

Those ten people would sign with the knowledge if you ever committed a crime with said firearm they would be held criminally and civilly liable.

How do you think that would end?

Preconditions are by design going to infringe on the rights of otherwise law abiding Americans, it's inevitable.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I always admit being human and never claim perfection.  The only way to never make a mistake is to never try.



I like you. I wouldn't tease in that manner if I didn't.


----------



## toobfreak (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> How do you think that would end?



Badly.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I always admit being human and never claim perfection.  The only way to never make a mistake is to never try.


In all seriousness, I wouldn't ask for anything less. If I offended, please accept my apologies.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> In all seriousness, I wouldn't ask for anything less. If I offended, please accept my apologies.


Nor did you.  No problem.


----------



## toobfreak (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> I always admit being human and never claim perfection.


Well that does it.  You can never be accepted as a democrat now.



Big Bend Texas said:


> The only way to never make a mistake is to never try.


A profound truth.  Worse, never trying itself would count as making a mistake!  Just don't ever hold your breath waiting for a leftie to admit that they were ever wrong about -- -- ANYTHING.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

So... what would be a constitutional way to resolve this? There's enforcing all the 20,000 laws we already passed on the matter, or hope law 20,001 will do the trick. 

Me personally, I would mandate a certain amount of time, say 100 hours, in gun safety classes with an exam at the end.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

The problem with psych evaluations is twofold:

HIPAA and the 4th Amendment


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> Well that does it. You can never be accepted as a democrat now.



Dammit toob, you had one job. You forgot to tell him his decoder ring is in the mail!


----------



## toobfreak (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> So... what would be a constitutional way to resolve this?



*There ARE no overnight solutions.*  DC cannot wave a magic wand and make gun crime just "go away."  The only REAL solution is somehow for everyone to admit that progressivism doesn't work and to gradually revert our society back to its formerly morally-driven, ethical state as it still was 40+ years ago and become less of an industrial culture and move back in part to an agrarian one.

Ironic that our culture's real downward slide began right around the same time as the Clintons were in the White House getting his dick sucked while Hillary priced out what she could steal and resell.

I'm sure it is all just a coincidence.


----------



## toobfreak (May 29, 2022)

TemplarKormac said:


> Dammit toob, you had one job. You forgot to tell him his decoder ring is in the mail.



My profuse appologies.  I was off getting sloshed and hammered with Nancy.


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> My profuse appologies.  I was off getting sloshed and hammered with Nancy.


Oooh, burn.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 29, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> My profuse appologies.  I was off getting sloshed and hammered with Nancy.


Just don't get sloshed enough to actually hammer Nancy!


----------



## TemplarKormac (May 29, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> *There ARE no overnight solutions.*  DC cannot wave a magic wand and make gun crime just "go away."  The only REAL solution is somehow for everyone to admit that progressivism doesn't work and to gradually revert our society back to its formerly morally-driven, ethical state as it still was 40+ years ago and become less of an industrial culture and move back in part to an agrarian one.
> 
> Ironic that our culture's real downward slide began right around the same time as the Clintons were in the White House getting his dick sucked while Hillary priced out what she could steal and resell.
> 
> I'm sure it is all just a coincidence.


Can't argue with that mate.


----------



## toobfreak (May 29, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Just don't get sloshed enough to actually hammer Nancy



I'd sooner french kiss a dead fly-covered half-eaten wildebeest laying partly in a Namibian animal drinking pond.


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> You're incapable of having a rational thought or discussion.



Boy, that's certainly the pot calling the kettle black.

When I asked you the basis on which you would deny Ramos the right to buy a gun, you gave me two ivalid answers. The first answer had to do with his age. Well, you can't deny someone that Constitutional right because it's perfectly lawful for an 18 year old to buy a rifle. If you don't like that, change the law, but you can't deny someone their right because you don't happen to agree with it.

The second reason you gave was his past criminal history. Well, as of right now it's not even clear whether or not he eve had a juvenile record. You can't deny someone their Constitutional right based on your fear that he may have a juvenile record.

So, you want to have a discussion, let's have it: On _what _valid basis would you have denied Ramos the right to buy a rifle?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 30, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Boy, that's certainly the pot calling the kettle black.
> 
> When I asked you the basis on which you would deny Ramos the right to buy a gun, you gave me two ivalid answers. The first answer had to do with his age. Well, you can't deny someone that Constitutional right because it's perfectly lawful for an 18 year old to buy a rifle. If you don't like that, change the law, but you can't deny someone their right because you don't happen to agree with it.
> 
> ...


Juvenile records are also sealed when you turn 18 and are not used against you as an adult on background checks.


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 30, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Juvenile records are also sealed when you turn 18 and are not used against you as an adult on background checks.



Oh, I'm well aware.

I just don't think YoursTruly knows that...


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 30, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Oh, I'm well aware.
> 
> I just don't think YoursTruly knows that...


Nor apparently much of anything else.


----------



## YoursTruly (May 30, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Boy, that's certainly the pot calling the kettle black.
> 
> When I asked you the basis on which you would deny Ramos the right to buy a gun, you gave me two ivalid answers. The first answer had to do with his age. Well, you can't deny someone that Constitutional right because it's perfectly lawful for an 18 year old to buy a rifle. If you don't like that, change the law, but you can't deny someone their right because you don't happen to agree with it.
> 
> ...




You can't deny those things because of the current laws that needs to be addressed to cover people who are actually not mentally stable. The only way to find out is by a psych exam.


----------



## YoursTruly (May 30, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> Oh, I'm well aware.
> 
> I just don't think YoursTruly knows that...



Yes I am.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> You can't deny those things because of the current laws that needs to be addressed to cover people who are actually not mentally stable. The only way to find out is by a psych exam.


We have laws to deal with them already, just enforce them.  You don't then have to infringe on the rights of the other 300,000,000 Americans to accomplish something that might make a difference.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Yes I am.


Then what in this young man's record would have prevented him from purchasing a firearm?


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No….we know that leftists would weaponize mental health care against gun owners and republicans



We know Trump and his cult has been weaponizing mental health against Americans.

November 6 2017
On Sunday morning, a man opened fire on a congregation at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. According to the most recent count, the gunman killed at least 26 people. The attack, which is the 378th mass shooting in 2017, was met online with a mixture of sadness and cynicism. 

President Trump, who is currently traveling in Asia, explained why he thinks gun control is definitely not the problem when he answered questions about the shooting on Monday morning:





> Mental health is your problem here. This was a very—based on preliminary reports—a very deranged individual. A lot of problems over a long period of time. We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries. But this isn’t a guns situation. I mean, we could go into it, but it’s a little bit soon to go into it. … But this is a mental health problem at the highest level. It’s a very, very sad event. It’s—these are great people, and a very, very sad event. But that’s the way I view it.



February 15 2018
President Donald Trump offered some solemn remarks Thursday addressing the mass shooting at a Florida high school which left at least 17 dead. Trump laid the blame on the mental health of the shooter and declined to mention the issues of gun violence or gun control.

“We are committed to working with state and local leaders to help secure our schools and tackle the difficult issue of mental health,” said Trump. “Later this month, I will be meeting with the nation’s governors and attorney generals, where making our schools and our children safer will be our top priority.”

August 5 2019
Last week, *Donald Trump* responded to the mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, by saying that “mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger, not the gun.” 


During his speech at the NRA convention in Houston, former President Donald Trump said the U.S. needs to “drastically change” its approach to mental health and called for more school security. Trump’s comments come in the wake of a shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, where 19 students and two teachers were killed.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 30, 2022)

But the orange retard, granted them the right to own them.

August 5 2019
President Donald Trump responded to the El Paso and Dayton mass shootings by insisting Monday that “mental illness pulls the trigger not the gun,” but shortly after taking office he quietly rolled back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it harder for people with mental illness to buy guns.

Trump did so without any fanfare. In fact, the news that Trump had signed the bill was at the bottom of a White House email that alerted the media to other legislation signed by the president.

"It has been the NRA’s long-standing position that those who have been adjudicated as a danger to themselves or others should not have access to firearms and should be admitted for treatment," it said.

But two years ago, the NRA insisted the Obama rule infringed on Second Amendment rights to buy guns, even though the regulation specifically targeted people who were diagnosed with mental illness.

The NRA “applauded” Trump’s action at the time and then-executive director Chris Cox said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”


----------



## there4eyeM (May 30, 2022)

There are no "rights" that exist out of the context of responsibility, with perhaps the exception of the right to remain silent.
One has the right to powerful projectile weapons when one demonstrates requisite responsibility. Those who wrote the Constitution knew that so well that writing it didn't occur to them. It is brainless to provide unlimited firepower to the witless.


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> You can't deny those things because of the current laws that needs to be addressed to cover people who are actually not mentally stable. The only way to find out is by a psych exam.



So, would you then agree that, at the time he purchased the gun he used, that there was legal reason to _not _sell him the firearm?


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Yes I am.



You just don't care.

That's even worse than not knowing...


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 30, 2022)

there4eyeM said:


> One has the right to powerful projectile weapons when one demonstrates requisite responsibility.



Perhaps in some jurisdictions, but that's simply not true for all jurusdictions...


----------



## SweetSue92 (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...



I am a Christian conservative. So half this country (liberals) already think I am mentally ill. 

So no. There's your answer. No.


----------



## CommieKillingMommy (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Psych exams for gun purchases



YOU need an exam. All you do is whine like a little girl about guns. My God, grow a pai will you? You are embarrassing.


----------



## BluesLegend (May 30, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> That's exactly what I'd like to avoid.  How many times must I say it, "We can't have laws that restrict decent gun owners.  But we need a system in place, backed by laws, that prevent mentally ill people from LEGALLY buying guns.  The only way to reduce the threat is to force people to take some sort of legitimate psych exam before they're eligible to buy a gun.
> I don't like that idea, but until the people of this country calm the F down and stop shooting everyone, I don't see any other way.
> I can pass a psych test. Almost everyone I know can pass one.
> 
> ...


^^^ THIS is how you solve the problem, by focusing on the root cause. Well done sir!  

It's not the instrument of their evil act, it's that they are f'ed up in the head. Take away one instrument and they will find another. Bomb, truck, small plane instruments are plenty.


----------



## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> We know Trump and his cult has been weaponizing mental health against Americans.
> 
> November 6 2017
> On Sunday morning, a man opened fire on a congregation at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. According to the most recent count, the gunman killed at least 26 people. The attack, which is the 378th mass shooting in 2017, was met online with a mixture of sadness and cynicism.
> ...




How does Trump have anything to do with any of that, you dumb ass?

The guy who tried to murder the Republican baseball team?  A left wing democrat supporter of Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren.......

Black racist ran over Whites at the Christmas parade in Waukesha...

Blm Supporter murdered  6 police officer in Dallas...

Left wing racist just murdered 10 people in Buffalo.....

Communist Chinese man murdered 6 Taiwanese Americans in California.....


----------



## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> But the orange retard, granted them the right to own them.
> 
> August 5 2019
> President Donald Trump responded to the El Paso and Dayton mass shootings by insisting Monday that “mental illness pulls the trigger not the gun,” but shortly after taking office he quietly rolled back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it harder for people with mental illness to buy guns.
> ...




Nope.....Trump stopped assholes like you from weaponizing mental health against gun owners.....and he did so with the ACLU and 23 other mental health groups supporting him....you dumb ass

Gun Control Laws Should Be Fair

But gun control laws, like any law, should be fair, effective and not based on prejudice or stereotype. This rule met none of those criteria.

In this era of “alternative facts,” we must urge politicians to create laws based on reliable evidence and solid data.

The thousands of Americans whose disability benefits are managed by someone else range from young people with depression and financial inexperience to older adults with Down syndrome needing help with a limited budget. But no data — none — show that these individuals have a propensity for violence in general or gun violence in particular.

To the contrary, studies show that people with mental disabilities are _less_ likely to commit firearm crimes than to be the _victims_of violence by others.

--------------------------
*The ACLU and 23 national disability groups did not oppose this rule because we want more guns in our community. *This is about more than guns. Adding more innocent Americans to the National Instant Criminal Background database because of a mental disability is a disturbing trend — one that could be applied to voting, parenting or other rights dearer than gun ownership. We opposed it because it would do little to stem gun violence but do much to harm our civil rights.


----------



## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> So, would you then agree that, at the time he purchased the gun he used, that there was legal reason to _not _sell him the firearm?




Yeah....but the gun store didn't know it because his family, his school, and the police didn't do anything that would have flagged him on his background check...

Government failed...again, as they do in too many of these cases....

Normal gun owners?   Didn't do anything wrong that day.


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 30, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....but the gun store didn't know it because his family, his school, and the police didn't do anything that would have flagged him on his background check...
> 
> Government failed...again, as they do in too many of these cases....
> 
> Normal gun owners?   Didn't do anything wrong that day.



You're really not making a great deal of sense.

Why would the police have been involved? There's currently no evidence that he had a juvenile record. If he didn't that would certainly explain the lack of action taken by law enforcement. His family? His school? What did he do that should've been reported to the authorities by his family or teachers?


----------



## 2aguy (May 30, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> You're really not making a great deal of sense.
> 
> Why would the police have been involved? There's currently no evidence that he had a juvenile record. If he didn't that would certainly explain the lack of action taken by law enforcement. His family? His school? What did he do that should've been reported to the authorities by his family or teachers?



They were called over domestic issues.....and they saw first hand that he had issues....

He didn't have a juvenile record but he had mental issues ...... which could have been used to involuntarily commit him for actual care, and that would have popped on his background checks.....

He was involved in actual fights and threats, reported self mutilation......domestic issues that resulted in the police being called.....

As more comes out you will see....he was known to the police and the school


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> How does Trump have anything to do with any of that, you dumb ass?


Just like your moron dear leader, the point flew right over your head.

The orange mental patient blames mental illness entirely, for the shootings, idiot.


2aguy said:


> The guy who tried to murder the Republican baseball team?  A left wing democrat supporter of Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren.......
> 
> Black racist ran over Whites at the Christmas parade in Waukesha...
> 
> ...


Sure, they were, Q NUT.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope.....Trump stopped assholes like you from weaponizing mental health against gun owners.....and he did so with the ACLU and 23 other mental health groups supporting him....you dumb ass


What a fucking retard, perfect Trumphumper.

November 6 2017
On Sunday morning, a man opened fire on a congregation at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. According to the most recent count, the gunman killed at least 26 people. The attack, which is the 378th mass shooting in 2017, was met online with a mixture of sadness and cynicism.

President Trump, who is currently traveling in Asia, explained why he thinks gun control is definitely not the problem when he answered questions about the shooting on Monday morning:

February 15 2018
President Donald Trump offered some solemn remarks Thursday addressing the mass shooting at a Florida high school which left at least 17 dead. Trump laid the blame on the mental health of the shooter and declined to mention the issues of gun violence or gun control.

“We are committed to working with state and local leaders to help secure our schools and tackle the difficult issue of mental health,” said Trump. “Later this month, I will be meeting with the nation’s governors and attorney generals, where making our schools and our children safer will be our top priority.”

August 5 2019
Last week, *Donald Trump* responded to the mass shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, by saying that “mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger, not the gun.”


During his speech at the NRA convention in Houston, former President Donald Trump said the U.S. needs to “drastically change” its approach to mental health and called for more school security. Trump’s comments come in the wake of a shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, where 19 students and two teachers were killed.

"Weaponizing mental health is all the idiot did for years.


2aguy said:


> Gun Control Laws Should Be Fair
> 
> But gun control laws, like any law, should be fair, effective and not based on prejudice or stereotype. This rule met none of those criteria.
> 
> ...


Then why does Trump and his cult blame the mentally ill, for all the shootings?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 31, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


🖕


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Just like your moron dear leader, the point flew right over your head.
> 
> The orange mental patient blames mental illness entirely, for the shootings, idiot.
> 
> Sure, they were, Q NUT.


Orange man triggered the mentally challenged SMH


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Orange man triggered the mentally challenged SMH


He sure does, and his mentally challenged, cult supports, defends, and loves him.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> He sure does, and his mentally challenged, cult supports, defends, and loves him.


You're the mentally challenged.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You're the mentally challenged.


I'm not the one who thinks Mexico paid for Trump's wall.

“We won the evangelicals,” Trump said. “We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”

Trump *Really *loves you.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> I'm not the one who thinks Mexico paid for Trump's wall.
> 
> “We won the evangelicals,” Trump said. “We won with young. We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”
> 
> Trump *Really *loves you.


You're the one that's so easily triggered by the orange man. You're the one that believes in conspiracy theories.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You're the one that's so easily triggered by the orange man. You're the one that believes in conspiracy theories.


Calling the competitive, orange, liar out isn't being triggered.
Defending the moron is.

 *Dec. 26: *Trump tweeted: "The ‘Justice’ Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th."

"WE HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT!!!" Trump said in another tweet.

*Jan, 6: *"We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women," Trump told his supporters shortly before the Capitol assault. "We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong."

*Dec. 26:*. "@senatemajldr and Republican Senators have to get tougher, or you won’t have a Republican Party anymore. We won the Presidential Election, by a lot. FIGHT FOR IT. Don’t let them take it away!" Trump tweeted Dec. 18.

*Jan. 4: *At a rally in Georgia the day before the Senate runoffs, Trump repeated his grievances about his own election. He spoke about a continued fight, both for himself and the Senate.

"If the liberal Democrats take the Senate and the White House — and they’re not taking this White House — we’re going to fight like hell, I’ll tell you right now," Trump said.

"We’re going to take it back," Trump said.


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> What a fucking retard, perfect Trumphumper.
> 
> November 6 2017
> On Sunday morning, a man opened fire on a congregation at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. According to the most recent count, the gunman killed at least 26 people. The attack, which is the 378th mass shooting in 2017, was met online with a mixture of sadness and cynicism.
> ...




And you forgot to add....

*On Sunday morning, a man opened fire on a congregation at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. According to the most recent count, the gunman killed at least 26 people. The attack, which is the 378th mass shooting in 2017, was met online with a mixture of sadness and cynicism.

The attack was stopped, and 26 people were saved, by an NRA instructor with his own AR-15 rifle, who stopped the attack by calling out to the attacker, who left the church to engage the NRA instructor, who then shot the attacker, and the attacker fled the scene, dying down the road, as the NRA instructor and another man pursued him...long before the police arrived...*


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And you forgot to add....
> 
> *On Sunday morning, a man opened fire on a congregation at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. According to the most recent count, the gunman killed at least 26 people. The attack, which is the 378th mass shooting in 2017, was met online with a mixture of sadness and cynicism.
> 
> The attack was stopped, and 26 people were saved, by an NRA instructor with his own AR-15 rifle, who stopped the attack by calling out to the attacker, who left the church to engage the NRA instructor, who then shot the attacker, and the attacker fled the scene, dying down the road, as the NRA instructor and another man pursued him...long before the police arrived...*


26 people killed but were "saved"?

You're FOS..................as usual.



The *Sutherland Springs church shooting* occurred on November 5, 2017, when Devin Patrick Kelley, age 26, of New Braunfels, Texas, perpetrated a mass shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Kelley killed 26 people, including an unborn child, wounded 22 others, and killed HIMSELF. The attack is the deadliest mass shooting in Texas history, and the fifth-deadliest in the United States.

Kelley was then confronted by and traded fire with Stephen Willeford, a local resident and former NRA firearms instructor who was armed with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. Willeford had taken cover behind a truck across the street from the church and shot Kelley twice, once in the leg and once in the upper left torso under his tactical gear.
Kelley, who had dropped his rifle during the initial firefight with Willeford, fired back with a handgun before fleeing in his Ford Expedition. Willeford fired one more round as Kelley sped north on FM 539.
Willeford then noticed a pickup truck parked at the intersection of 4th St. and FM 539, driven by Johnnie Langendorff.

Kelly was in the parking lot.
AFTER killing and wounding all those people.

Willeford didn't "save' anyone.


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> 26 people killed but were "saved"?
> 
> You're FOS..................as usual.
> 
> ...




You dumb ass...do your fucking research...

'Be quiet! It's him!' Survivors say shooter walked pew by pew looking for people to shoot - CNN

*As the massacre continued, Ramirez made eye contact with Annabelle Pomeroy -- the 14-year-old daughter of the church's pastor. She was crying for help, Ramirez told KSAT.
Realizing Annabelle might get shot, Ramirez motioned with his finger for her to stay quiet. It didn't work. Annabelle was killed.

The gunman eventually made his way to the back pew, where Brown's mother was hiding, "and started shooting the lady next to her multiple times," Brown said.

Brown's mother was certain she would be next, "and her life was about to end."

"Then somebody with a gun showed up at the front of the church (and) caught the shooter's attention," Brown said. "And he left, and that was the end of the ordeal."*


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> 26 people killed but were "saved"?
> 
> You're FOS..................as usual.
> 
> ...




Church shootings stopped, and not stopped....


Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

Charleston church shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 9 dead)

26 dead in shooting at church in Sutherland Springs, Texas  (26 dead)


vs.


Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

Psychiatrist v. patient with gun, in gun free zone

**********



> *No guns: 41 dead*
> 
> Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)
> 
> ...


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> 26 people killed but were "saved"?
> 
> You're FOS..................as usual.
> 
> ...




Willeford caused him to stop murdering the wounded, you dumb ass......22 lives saved because he showed up with his rifle........an AR-15....


----------



## JoeB131 (May 31, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Except that it's un-Constitutional.
> 
> Would we suggest mental health tests to exercise any other Constitutionally guaranteed right?



No one is stopping you from joining a well-regulated militia.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They were called over domestic issues.....and they saw first hand that he had issues....
> 
> He didn't have a juvenile record but he had mental issues ...... which could have been used to involuntarily commit him for actual care, and that would have popped on his background checks.....
> 
> ...



So here's a crazy idea.  Instead of waiting until AFTER a mass shooter has left a pile of bodies to find out why he never should have been sold a gun. 

Let's find this stuff out before hand and not sell him a gun to start with.  


Oh, Ramos was arrested four years ago for threatening to do a school shooting, but he was 14 and treated as a juvenile offender. 









						Salvador Ramos Arrested 4 Years Ago for Planning Attack at 18—Texas Rep.
					

Texas Rep. Tony Gonzales claimed the Uvalde shooter had been arrested for planning a school shooting once he turned 18.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You dumb ass...do your fucking research...
> 
> 'Be quiet! It's him!' Survivors say shooter walked pew by pew looking for people to shoot - CNN
> 
> ...



Yeah, in the parking lot.

By the end of the massacre, 26 people were dead including an unborn child, authorities said. The fatalities included eight members of the same family and Kelley’s own grandmother-in-law.

Caught the shooters "attention", it wasn't with a bullet, he drove away.

Regardless, the guy did good in my book.

But you're still deflecting.

November 6 2017
President Donald Trump blamed the Texas church shooting that left at least 26 dead on mental health problems, but experts say that it's much more complicated than that.

Trump, who’s visiting Japan, spoke about the shooting in a press conference Monday.

“We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries, but this isn't a guns situation,” said Trump in Tokyo. “This is a mental health problem at the highest level. It’s a very, very sad event.”


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Willeford caused him to stop murdering the wounded, you dumb ass......22 lives saved because he showed up with his rifle........an AR-15....


Deflection derail.

November 6 2017
President Donald Trump blamed the Texas church shooting that left at least 26 dead on mental health problems, but experts say that it's much more complicated than that.

Trump, who’s visiting Japan, spoke about the shooting in a press conference Monday.

“We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries, but this isn't a guns situation,” said Trump in Tokyo. “This is a mental health problem at the highest level. It’s a very, very sad event.”


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Yeah, in the parking lot.
> 
> By the end of the massacre, 26 people were dead including an unborn child, authorities said. The fatalities included eight members of the same family and Kelley’s own grandmother-in-law.
> 
> ...



And the rest were saved not by the police….they were saved by an NRA instructor and his AR-15 rifle…..the police didnt
Save those 12 people… he did


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Yeah, in the parking lot.
> 
> By the end of the massacre, 26 people were dead including an unborn child, authorities said. The fatalities included eight members of the same family and Kelley’s own grandmother-in-law.
> 
> ...



Moron, read the story….willeford shot him and he ran away…… you doofus


----------



## JoeB131 (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And the rest were saved not by the poooce….they were saved by an NRA instructor and his AR-15 rifle…..the police didnt
> Save those 12 people… he did



And if he was prevented from buying guns  NOBODY would have died.


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So here's a crazy idea.  Instead of waiting until AFTER a mass shooter has left a pile of bodies to find out why he never should have been sold a gun.
> 
> Let's find this stuff out before hand and not sell him a gun to start with.
> 
> ...



Dumb ass… if the family, friends, school or police did something, he would have been refused the rifle because he didn’t pass the background check… your god….government….failed…again


----------



## JoeB131 (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Dumb ass… if the family, friends, school or police did something, he would have been refused the rifle because he didn’t pass the background check… your god….government….failed…again



Was the government allowed to talk to his friends, family, etc.?  

Nope.  Because the NRA weakened the background system to just being an incomplete database. 

So let's try this. 

When I got my last job, I had a THOROUGH background check.  They checked with all my former employers, they talked to previous co-workers, they even checked my credit history.  

So if you are a first time gun buyer, let's do the same. 

An investigator goes back and talks to your employer, your family and friends, your school if you graduated in the last five years, to see if you are the kind of nut who might shoot something up.  

Can't really apply it to the 21% of the population who own guns, but that's fine, as most mass shooters buy their guns within days of their rampage, so let's actually start there, with new gun owners.


----------



## fncceo (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No one is stopping you from joining a well-regulated militia.



As a proficient gun-owner, I'm already part of a well-regulated militia.  When my state calls, I will answer.


----------



## fncceo (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Was the government allowed to talk to his friends, family, etc.?



We had a talk with yours.  I don't suggest you get a firearm.

Of course, because a Constitutional right isn't a guarantee of employment, your employer can legally do that.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Calling the competitive, orange, liar out isn't being triggered.
> Defending the moron is.
> 
> *Dec. 26: *Trump tweeted: "The ‘Justice’ Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th."
> ...


Yep we know how the democrat controlled media munipulated your weak ass tarded mind.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Yep we know how the democrat controlled media munipulated your weak ass tarded mind.


Sure Q NUT Trumptard.

July 24 2018
“Don’t believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news,” Trump said, pointing at reporters as the crowd broke out in boos. “Just remember, what you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.”

“Sick with us,” he pleaded. “Just stick with us.”

*“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears*. It was their final, most essential command.” ― George Orwell, 1984


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Sure Q NUT Trumptard.
> 
> July 24 2018
> “Don’t believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news,” Trump said, pointing at reporters as the crowd broke out in boos. “Just remember, what you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.”
> ...


Oh the mind of the Trump derangement people they need to be institutionalized.


----------



## Flash (May 31, 2022)




----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Oh the mind of the Trump derangement people they need to be institutionalized.


You got that right, but Trump wouldn't have anyone attending his pity rallies.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> You got that right, but Trump wouldn't have anyone attending his pity rallies.
> 
> View attachment 652234


Poor little TDSer


----------



## Burgermeister (May 31, 2022)

We've got a senile old moron controlling the largest nuclear weapons capability on the planet. How about we start with him first.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Poor little TDSer


You're the one who supports and defends the retard.
Just like this idiot.


----------



## bripat9643 (May 31, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


I'll vote for that after we pass I.Q. tests for voters.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

bripat9643 said:


> I'll vote for that after we pass I.Q. tests for voters.


I'll vote for I.Q. test in order to vote.

Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart. Crooked Hillary Clinton also played these cards very hard and, as everyone knows, went down in flames. I went from VERY successful businessman, to top T.V. Star, to President of the United States (on my first try). I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 6, 2018

Trump described having to repeat five words — "person, woman, man, camera, TV" — and then later on in the test remember the words to repeat again.

"They said nobody gets it in order, it's actually not that easy," Trump claimed. "But for me, it was easy. And that's not an easy question."

“You go, 'person, woman, man, camera, TV,'” he said. “They say, ‘That's amazing. How did you do that?’ I have, like, a good memory ... I’m cognitively there.”

 So they say, ‘Could you repeat that?' So I said, ‘Yeah. So it's person, woman, man, camera, TV.’ ‘Okay, that's very good. If you get it in order you get extra points.’

Sure, I vote for the retard who raised his I.Q. from one to three................because the moron got "extra" points".


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So here's a crazy idea.  Instead of waiting until AFTER a mass shooter has left a pile of bodies to find out why he never should have been sold a gun.
> 
> Let's find this stuff out before hand and not sell him a gun to start with.
> 
> ...



So what should've been done?

Should the rantings of a child preclude him from ever owning a firearm?


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Was the government allowed to talk to his friends, family, etc.?
> 
> Nope.  Because the NRA weakened the background system to just being an incomplete database.
> 
> ...



Moron, the family should have sought help…..the school should have sought help….the police should have pressed for an involuntary commitment which they have in Texas…

The gun store had no part in the mistakes of all those others and had his name popped in the background check, they would have refused  the purchase


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

Canon Shooter said:


> So what should've been done?
> 
> Should the rantings of a child preclude him from ever owning a firearm?



No, the rantings and the self mutilation and the violence at home and at school and the friends who knew he was mutilating animals……..

That combination of warning signs should have led to the authorities stepping in…..

He isn’t the first to show these warning signs…..and he isn’t the first to have them ignored by the school and police


----------



## 2aguy (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Was the government allowed to talk to his friends, family, etc.?
> 
> Nope.  Because the NRA weakened the background system to just being an incomplete database.
> 
> ...




Yes…..the police who responded to the violence at home, at school and in public as well as the animal mutilations would allow the police to act and take what they knew to a judge


----------



## Canon Shooter (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No, the rantings and the self mutilation and the violence at home and at school and the friends who knew he was mutilating animals…



What violence? What mutilating?

The only place I've read about any of that is here on USMB, in the rantings of various posters. Do you have anything at all to support the statements you're making?



2aguy said:


> That combination of warning signs should have led to the authorities stepping in…



You're assuming their crystal ball was properly calibrated...



2aguy said:


> He isn’t the first to show these warning signs…..and he isn’t the first to have them ignored by the school and police



Again, you're going to need to provide something to support your claims...


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> We know Trump and his cult has been weaponizing mental health against Americans.
> 
> November 6 2017
> On Sunday morning, a man opened fire on a congregation at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. According to the most recent count, the gunman killed at least 26 people. The attack, which is the 378th mass shooting in 2017, was met online with a mixture of sadness and cynicism.
> ...


Do perfectly sane, rational people shoot up schools and work places?  Cite your source.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> But the orange retard, granted them the right to own them.
> 
> August 5 2019
> President Donald Trump responded to the El Paso and Dayton mass shootings by insisting Monday that “mental illness pulls the trigger not the gun,” but shortly after taking office he quietly rolled back an Obama-era regulation that would have made it harder for people with mental illness to buy guns.
> ...


The rule that was rolled back stripped people never adjudicated as mentally defective of their 2nd Amendment rights without any due process or even appeal.

There are a lot of people who for various reasons can't handle their own finances that are perfectly rational and sane.

Rolling that rule back played absolutely no role in this guy's ability to legally purchase a firearm.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> But two years ago, the NRA insisted the Obama rule infringed on Second Amendment rights to buy guns, even though the regulation specifically targeted people who were diagnosed with mental illness.


This is an outright lie.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Do perfectly sane, rational people shoot up schools and work places?


"Perfectly"?
Not in my book, they aren't.

However, what did they grab first to do these shootings?
MOST drove a vehicle to the location, why didn't they use THAT?


Big Bend Texas said:


> Cite your source.


Me.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> "Perfectly"?
> Not in my book, they aren't.
> 
> However, what did they grab first to do these shootings?
> ...


It's pretty hard to get a vehicle into a classroom.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The rule that was rolled back stripped people never adjudicated as mentally defective of their 2nd Amendment rights without any due process or even appeal.


WTF?
They applied to Social Security for a mental issue, went to court in front of a Social Security judge, it was granted.

How much "due process" do you fucking need?
"Appeal"?
What?


Big Bend Texas said:


> There are a lot of people who for various reasons can't handle their own finances that are perfectly rational and sane.


Sure, but they applied for SSDI for MENTAL issues, NOT because they couldn't balance a checkbook.


Big Bend Texas said:


> Rolling that rule back played absolutely no role in this guy's ability to legally purchase a firearm.


It wasn't even that.
It was entering that person into the National Crime Database.


----------



## Smokin' OP (May 31, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> It's pretty hard to get a vehicle into a classroom.


Then they didn't do that.
Didn't grab a pool cue.
Didn't grab a chain.
Didn't grab a tree branch.
Didn't grab a molotov cocktail.
Didn't grab a fire extinguisher.
Didn't grab a beer bottle and beak it, into shards.
Didn't grab a baseball bat.


----------



## there4eyeM (May 31, 2022)

Do rights have corresponding responsibilities?


----------



## Rogue AI (May 31, 2022)

Lefty think 101: you need a psyche exam to purchase a gun, you are unable to purchase a gun because you are so unstable you needed a psyche exam.


----------



## Nostra (May 31, 2022)

jackflash said:


> Leo 123 speakum truth!


Cool.

Let's do psych exams for voting. It would be quick and simple:

Are you a Republican or Democrat?

Anyone saying he/she is a Democrat is clearly nuts, so no vote for  you!


----------



## JoeB131 (May 31, 2022)

fncceo said:


> We had a talk with yours. I don't suggest you get a firearm.
> 
> Of course, because a Constitutional right isn't a guarantee of employment, your employer can legally do that.



I'm self-employed.


----------



## JoeB131 (May 31, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron, the family should have sought help…..the school should have sought help….the police should have pressed for an involuntary commitment which they have in Texas…
> 
> The gun store had no part in the mistakes of all those others and had his name popped in the background check, they would have refused the purchase



Wow, he should have gotten help, but all that money went to give tax cuts to billionaires... Those Dressage Horsies aren't going buy themselves.  


Like I said, let victims of gun violence sue the gun stores and manufactuerers, and you would be AMAZED how fast the gun industry creates an effective background check that's going to look at everything.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> Then they didn't do that.
> Didn't grab a pool cue.
> Didn't grab a chain.
> Didn't grab a tree branch.
> ...


You made the asinine statement, deflecting won't change that fact.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, he should have gotten help, but all that money went to give tax cuts to billionaires... Those Dressage Horsies aren't going buy themselves.
> 
> 
> Like I said, let victims of gun violence sue the gun stores and manufactuerers, and you would be AMAZED how fast the gun industry creates an effective background check that's going to look at everything.


Are you smoking the Crystal Draino again?

Sue them for how a criminal chooses to use their product?  You won't be able to buy a car in the US anymore if that becomes the rule.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

there4eyeM said:


> Do rights have corresponding responsibilities?


Yes, if you are a gun owner you have a responsibility to use them lawfully and responsibly.

You aren't responsible for how someone else uses a similar firearm.


----------



## Kosh (May 31, 2022)

Provision four limits the ability to determine rates or eligibility for health insurance based on gun ownership. Now why is that even in there? Title I of the ACA states that insurance will be guaranteed issue so no one can be turned down. Even if they own enough guns to hunt every squirrel in the United States, they will qualify for health insurance. Just so the gun owners have the correct information, rates are based on only four factors – age, location, number of family members, and smoking status. Wait – guns smoke, so maybe they thought that was meant for gun owners.









						Gun Owner Rights and Obamacare - Yes It Is In The Law
					

The National Rifle Association even had a hand in writing two pages devoted to gun owner’s protection in the Affordable Care Act.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Nope. Because the NRA weakened the background system to just being an incomplete database.


You are of course lying.  The background check we have today was in fact the brain child of the NRA.

The problem is there's no follow up on those who fail a background check.

In the age of swatting and other types of false reports the kind of system you propose would make most people ineligible because anyone can make any claim they want they felt might disqualify you.

We have a right to equal protection and equal treatment under law so whatever restrictions you want to put on the right to keep and bear can also be put on voting rights, the right to free speech and expression as well.

Be very careful what you wish for.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Can't really apply it to the 21% of the population who own guns, but that's fine, as most mass shooters buy their guns within days of their rampage, so let's actually start there, with new gun owners.


Your numbers are more than just a bit off.













						What Percentage of Americans Own Guns?
					

Read Gallup's short answer to this common question about gun ownership, including what percentages of major demographic subgroups own guns.




					news.gallup.com
				
















						Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2021 | Statista
					

The share of American households owning at least one firearm has remained relatively steady since 1972, hovering between 37 percent and 47 percent.




					www.statista.com
				




Considering how many Americans would be reticent to answer yes you're probably off by at least 2/3's.

Such a scheme as you propose would be a clear violation of our rights as well placing preconditions on one's right to to keep and bear.


----------



## justoffal (May 31, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Psych exams for voting.
> 
> Poll tests before you vote.
> 
> Nobody without a high school education gets to live.


Yep...that's what will happen


----------



## Nostra (May 31, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm self-employed.


Is that what you call standing on a street corner holding a cardboard sign?


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You made the asinine statement, deflecting won't change that fact.



Deflecting?
So, what did Ramos purchase before he tried to murder his grandmother?

Waited all that time, saved all that $$$ when he could have used a knife or shovel.

Instead, Ramos used one of the AR's he recently purchased.

How convenient.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You are of course lying.  The background check we have today was in fact the brain child of the NRA.
> 
> The problem is there's no follow up on those who fail a background check.
> 
> ...


For the clueless idiots like Smok'n OP.



> The NICS – set up by the permanent provisions of the Brady Act, which frankly should have been called the NRA Act – is run by the FBI and is constitutional because Congress has power to tell federal employees what to do. Congress also has power to offer financial assistance to the States to enable them to report criminal convictions, mental commitments, and other disabilities that render a person ineligible to obtain a firearm.  The States’ ability to make these reports to federal authorities was enhanced by the NRA-supported NICS Improvements Act of 2007.
> 
> *The Fact Checker further states:* “The NRA for years has claimed credit for the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), a database established in 1998 to conduct background checks on gun buyers. We looked at this claim previously, and the evidence was thin.”  But it posts a law review article by Richard E. Gardiner and Stephen P. Halbrook that demonstrates the legitimacy of NRA’s claimed credit for NICS.
> The NRA opposed the original Brady bill because it was nothing but a waiting period with a mandate to the States to conduct background checks only on handgun buyers. The NRA originated the idea of and supported an instant background check by the FBI on all firearm buyers. That became NICS.











						NRA & National Instant Criminal Background System: Fact Checking WAPO's Facts
					

Perhaps Fact Checker deserves some Pinocchios for suggesting that NRA argued that the NICS is unconstitutional, when in fact it was the NRA that conceived of the NICS




					www.ammoland.com


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You are of course lying.  The background check we have today was in fact the brain child of the NRA.


Of course, you're the one lying.....................Again.

The *National Instant Criminal Background Check System* (*NICS*) is a background check system in the United States created by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Law) of 1993 to prevent firearm sales to people prohibited under the Act. The system was launched by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 1998. 

Background checks of firearm buyers was discussed as early as the 1930s.[4] The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) mandated that individual and corporate firearms dealers hold a Federal Firearms License (FFL). It also created a system for keeping prohibited persons (e.g. a person determined to be prohibited of possessing a weapon due to criminal history or immigration status) from buying guns.




Big Bend Texas said:


> The problem is there's no follow up on those who fail a background check.
> 
> In the age of swatting and other types of false reports the kind of system you propose would make most people ineligible because anyone can make any claim they want they felt might disqualify you.
> 
> We have a right to equal protection and equal treatment under law so whatever restrictions you want to put on the right to keep and bear can also be put on voting rights, the right to free speech and expression as well.


Sure, the gun control act of 1934 had no effect on voting rights, the right to free speech or expression.

The *National Firearms Act* (*NFA*), 73rd Congress, Sess. 2, ch. 757, 48 Stat. 1236 was enacted on June 26, 1934, and currently codified and amended as I.R.C. ch. 53. The law is an Act of Congress in the United States that, in general, imposes an excise tax on the manufacture and transfer of certain firearms and mandates the registration of those firearms. The NFA is also referred to as Title II of the federal firearms laws, with the Gun Control Act of 1968 ("GCA") as Title I.

All transfers of ownership of registered NFA firearms must be done through the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (the "NFA registry").[2] The NFA also requires that the permanent transport of NFA firearms across state lines by the owner must be reported to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

The only ones imposing on voting rights and freedom of expression are republican governors over the last two years.


Big Bend Texas said:


> Be very careful what you wish for.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> For the clueless idiots like Smok'n OP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure, clueless moron.

You stated brainchild of the NRA, like they created it.

The *Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act* (Pub.L. 103–159, 107 Stat. 1536, enacted November 30, 1993), often referred to as the *Brady Act* or the *Brady Bill*, is an Act of the United States Congress that mandated federal background checks on firearm purchasers in the United States, and imposed a five-day waiting period on purchases, until the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) was implemented in 1998.

 The act was appended to the end of Section 922 of title 18, United States Code. The intention of the act was to prevent persons with previous serious convictions from purchasing firearms.

The original legislation was introduced into the House of Representatives by Representative Chuck Schumer in March 1991, but was never brought to a vote. The bill was reintroduced by Rep. Schumer on February 22, 1993, and the final version was passed on November 11, 1993. It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993, and the law went into effect on February 28, 1994. The Act was named after James Brady, who was shot and wounded by John Hinckley Jr. during an attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan on March 30, 1981.

The Supreme Court agreed with the NRA in _Sheriff Jay Printz v. U.S. _(1997), holding that the federal mandate to local sheriffs and police violated the Tenth Amendment.

Just because they agreed with a provision of the bill 6 years later, doesn't make the NICS, NRA's "brainchild".


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Are you smoking the Crystal Draino again?
> 
> Sue them for how a criminal chooses to use their product? You won't be able to buy a car in the US anymore if that becomes the rule.



Cars aren't designed to kill people.  But if you want to compare cars to guns, that's fine. Let's have licensing, mandatory insurance, registration, and a large portion of police resources focused on enforcement.  

(Pssst... this is the part where you start whining about how the Founding Slave Rapists GAVE you the right to a gun!!!!)  



Big Bend Texas said:


> You are of course lying. The background check we have today was in fact the brain child of the NRA.



And that's exactly the problem.  The NRA works for the gun industry.  They want to make it EASY for guns to be sold.  No delays.  No restrictions! 



Big Bend Texas said:


> The problem is there's no follow up on those who fail a background check.



Why should there be?  We barely have enough resources to lock up real criminals, not "You forgot about that pot conviction you got in 92 when you applied for a gun permit." 



Big Bend Texas said:


> In the age of swatting and other types of false reports the kind of system you propose would make most people ineligible because anyone can make any claim they want they felt might disqualify you.



And why would that be a bad thing?  It seems to me that if someone is scared enough of you having a gun, there's probably a good reason.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> We have a right to equal protection and equal treatment under law so whatever restrictions you want to put on the right to keep and bear can also be put on voting rights, the right to free speech and expression as well.



You can't kill someone with a vote or a speech, so, um.. no.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Cars aren't designed to kill people. But if you want to compare cars to guns, that's fine. Let's have licensing, mandatory insurance, registration, and a large portion of police resources focused on enforcement.


Operating a car is a heavily regulated privilege.

To Keep and Bear arms is not only a constitutionally protected right, it is the one right that comes with the special prohibition on gov't, Shall not be infringed.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And that's exactly the problem. The NRA works for the gun industry. They want to make it EASY for guns to be sold. No delays. No restrictions!


Well that of course is a lie.  The NRA supports every restriction listed on the Form 4473 and was in fact a big part of revising it to include the restrictions it has today.

What the NRA wants is to make it easy for law abiding eligible Americans to exercise their 2nd Rights with the least possible interference hence the "instant background check".

We also support opening the system to private individuals so we can ensure that any private transfers are completely lawful but the democrats keep fighting that.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Why should there be? We barely have enough resources to lock up real criminals, not "You forgot about that pot conviction you got in 92 when you applied for a gun permit."


No felon or wife beater forgets they can't buy legally.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> And why would that be a bad thing? It seems to me that if someone is scared enough of you having a gun, there's probably a good reason.


Right just like nobody ever makes a swatting call on someone unless they are actually doing something to warrant it.

Right?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You can't kill someone with a vote or a speech, so, um.. no.


Over 100,000,000 people in the last century were killed as a result of a few inspirational speeches.

Words have been driving people to kill since we first developed language.


----------



## Flash (Jun 1, 2022)

Liberals need to have a mental exam before they are allowed to vote.  Of course then they all would fail.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Operating a car is a heavily regulated privilege.
> 
> To Keep and Bear arms is not only a constitutionally protected right, it is the one right that comes with the special prohibition on gov't, Shall not be infringed.



See, I said that was going to be your go-to. 

BUT THE FOUNDING SLAVE RAPISTS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!! you whine like a five year old who has been given a time out.  

The Founding Fathers shit in chamber pots and thought bleeding people was a valid medical treatment.  How about instead of using the reasoning of 18th century slave rapists, we follow sense and reason today.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> Well that of course is a lie. The NRA supports every restriction listed on the Form 4473 and was in fact a big part of revising it to include the restrictions it has today.
> 
> What the NRA wants is to make it easy for law abiding eligible Americans to exercise their 2nd Rights with the least possible interference hence the "instant background check".



But that's the problem.  "Instant Background Checks" means stuff is going to get missed.   The Buffalo and Uvalde Shooters passed "instant background checks", but if anyone had looked into these two losers, they would have seen they had no business having a gun.  

When I got my current job, they did a thorough background check.  When I got my last condo loan, they did a much more thorough background check than they did in 2004 when I got my last one.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> No felon or wife beater forgets they can't buy legally.


They don't?  I bet most guys forgot their ex-girlfriend they haven't seen since the early Aughts got a restraining order against them.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> Right just like nobody ever makes a swatting call on someone unless they are actually doing something to warrant it.
> 
> Right?



Well, you see, that's why you do a thorough background check, to tell the legitimate complaints from the "Swatting".  If that takes a couple of weeks, then it takes a couple of weeks.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 1, 2022)

Flash said:


> Liberals need to have a mental exam before they are allowed to vote. Of course then they all would fail.



Really?  It seems that the people who need mental exams are working class conservatives who keep voting for less rights at work.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> See, I said that was going to be your go-to.
> 
> BUT THE FOUNDING SLAVE RAPISTS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!! you whine like a five year old who has been given a time out.
> 
> ...


How about you try amending the constitution.

Ideas and Ideals that are old are not necessarily bad and some are never outdated.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> But that's the problem. "Instant Background Checks" means stuff is going to get missed. The Buffalo and Uvalde Shooters passed "instant background checks", but if anyone had looked into these two losers, they would have seen they had no business having a gun.


The background checks worked, neither was ineligible to purchase or possess firearms.

Just how many of our rights do you want to violate to prevent us from exercising our 2nd Amendment Rights?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> They don't? I bet most guys forgot their ex-girlfriend they haven't seen since the early Aughts got a restraining order against them.


A TRO doesn't prevent one from being eligible after it expires and nobody other than someone higher than a kite or suffering a severe head wound is going to forget being convicted of a felony or domestic violence.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Really?  It seems that the people who need mental exams are working class conservatives who keep voting for less rights at work.


And there we have it and why we'll never submit to such bullshit to exercise our rights.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> How about you try amending the constitution.
> 
> Ideas and Ideals that are old are not necessarily bad and some are never outdated.



Actually, they are when technology changes.   When the Slave Rapists wrote the Militia Amendment, state of the art was a muzzle loaded musket that took three minutes to reload. 

Now we have semi-automatic rifles that can fire 30 rounds a minute.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> The background checks worked, neither was ineligible to purchase or possess firearms.
> 
> Just how many of our rights do you want to violate to prevent us from exercising our 2nd Amendment Rights?



No, guy, if a crazy person buys a gun and shoots a bunch of people, THEN BACKGROUND CHECKS DID NOT WORK!!!!  

Everyone in their lives knew they were crazy.  A real background check would have alerted someone.  




Big Bend Texas said:


> A TRO doesn't prevent one from being eligible after it expires and nobody other than someone higher than a kite or suffering a severe head wound is going to forget being convicted of a felony or domestic violence.



Well, that's a problem, isn't it?  People really don't know when things expire, do they?  



Big Bend Texas said:


> And there we have it and why we'll never submit to such bullshit to exercise our rights.



But you vote for that all the time, dummy, whenever you put Republicans in office, they take all sorts of rights away from you.  

I would love to enjoy the kinds of rights at work my Dad had back in the 1970's...


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Flash said:


> Liberals need to have a mental exam before they are allowed to vote.  Of course then they all would fail.


Sure, we would.

Republicans RE elected this.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, they are when technology changes. When the Slave Rapists wrote the Militia Amendment, state of the art was a muzzle loaded musket that took three minutes to reload.
> 
> Now we have semi-automatic rifles that can fire 30 rounds a minute.


How does that make any difference?  Do you think the threats we face like home invaders are limited to single shots?

Do you think in the event of an invasion, we'd only face people with muskets?

Do you think when you find yourself confronting cartel drug runners in the desert they will only be carrying cap and ball single shot pistols?

They were really smart guys who understood that the biggest reason we were able to win the revolution was the fact militiamen were armed with rifles that could shoot accurately at 3 times the range the enemy could even lob rounds by volley.

The whole point was that we be able to arm and equip ourselves well enough to resist any force including that of our own gov't should it ever become tyrannical which of course is exactly where folks like yourself are trying to take us.

By the way dumbass, if you know what' you're doing you can get off 30 rounds a minute at an aimed target with a bolt action hundred year old rifle with just a bit of practice.


People who have no clue what they are talking about should learn to shut up and listen.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> How does that make any difference?  Do you think the threats we face like home invaders are limited to single shots?
> 
> Do you think in the event of an invasion, we'd only face people with muskets?
> 
> ...


You think you do?

"if you know what' you're doing you can get off 30 rounds a minute at an aimed target with a bolt action hundred year old rifle with just a bit of practice".

If you know what you're doing a person would only, at the maximum, need 1/6th of that to hit anything.

If you need 30 rounds to wound someone, you deserve to die.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> You think you do?
> 
> "if you know what' you're doing you can get off 30 rounds a minute at an aimed target with a bolt action hundred year old rifle with just a bit of practice".
> 
> ...


Spoken like one utterly clueless about gun fighting and engaging multiple threats.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Spoken like one utterly clueless about gun fighting and engaging multiple threats.



"if you know what' you're doing you can get off 30 rounds a minute at an aimed target with a bolt action hundred year old rifle with just a bit of practice".

You stated TARGET.


----------



## Likkmee (Jun 1, 2022)

Is this taget racist ?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> "if you know what' you're doing you can get off 30 rounds a minute at an aimed target with a bolt action hundred year old rifle with just a bit of practice".
> 
> You stated TARGET.


The Mad Minute is shot on targets rather than live people as are most challenges and contests.

The point was to make a British infantryman so well skilled he could at least approximate the same performance in the field facing any number of threats.

You are an idiot.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Likkmee said:


> Is this taget racist ?


 
I don't know.
Are you asking the target?
Or the girl?


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The Mad Minute is shot on targets rather than live people as are most challenges and contests.
> 
> The point was to make a British infantryman so well skilled he could at least approximate the same performance in the field facing any number of threats.
> 
> You are an idiot.


You're the idiot. 
You changed your BS from TARGET to TARGETS, now?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

Smokin' OP said:


> You're the idiot.
> You changed your BS from TARGET to TARGETS, now?


You can't really be this dense, it has to be an act.

A man shoots at a target to qualify.

Men shoot at targets to qualify.

You're a blithering idiot.


----------



## Smokin' OP (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You can't really be this dense, it has to be an act.


You're the moron who needs to shoot at something 30 times to hit it.


Big Bend Texas said:


> A man shoots at a target to qualify.


OK.


Big Bend Texas said:


> Men shoot at targets to qualify


So, 30 "rounds"?
Ammo or beers?


Big Bend Texas said:


> You're a blithering idiot.


I don't need 30 chances to hit something, even after 30 beers.
Only a blithering idiot would............................YOU.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> If the right came up with a law that states one must pass a psych exam in order to purchase a gun, what should applicants be disqualified for.


How does this get past "shall not be infringed"?


----------



## YoursTruly (Jun 1, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> How does this get past "shall not be infringed"?



We're so far passed that now, not sure why the 2A supporters still cry about it?  
Gun Permits
Gun registration
Felons who aren't allowed to buy or carry or even be around a gun
Federal Background checks
Waiting periods.
Age requirements


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jun 1, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> We're so far passed that now, not sure why the 2A supporters still cry about it?


So...  you can't answer the question.
Thanks.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 1, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> How does that make any difference? Do you think the threats we face like home invaders are limited to single shots?
> 
> Do you think in the event of an invasion, we'd only face people with muskets?
> 
> Do you think when you find yourself confronting cartel drug runners in the desert they will only be carrying cap and ball single shot pistols?



By that logic, we should all be allowed to own tanks and howitzers... because hey, if we were invaded that's what the other side would be packing.  

You kind of hint at why the Second Amendment needs to be shitcanned.  In 1776, a citizen militia in an agrarian society kind of made sense.   In 2022, it doesn't.  We have professional armies and police forces.   We don't need citizens armed like soldiers.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> They were really smart guys who understood that the biggest reason we were able to win the revolution was the fact militiamen were armed with rifles that could shoot accurately at 3 times the range the enemy could even lob rounds by volley.
> 
> The whole point was that we be able to arm and equip ourselves well enough to resist any force including that of our own gov't should it ever become tyrannical which of course is exactly where folks like yourself are trying to take us.



Uh, we were able to win the revolution because France and Spain intervened on our side to stick it to the Brits...  

Today we have tanks, howitzers, fighters, bombers, and fucking NUKES.    We aren't going to arm ourselves well enough to resist anyone..  Certainly not worth the 43,000 deaths we have every year from the gun culture.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Cars aren't designed to kill people.  But if you want to compare cars to guns, that's fine. Let's have licensing, mandatory insurance, registration, and a large portion of police resources focused on enforcement.
> 
> (Pssst... this is the part where you start whining about how the Founding Slave Rapists GAVE you the right to a gun!!!!)
> 
> ...



Cars are so mich more deadly than guns, cars kill more people accidentally than guns do intentionally, you idiot….

It doesn’t matter how many violent criminals you put in prison if you keep letting them back out…you idiot.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, they are when technology changes.   When the Slave Rapists wrote the Militia Amendment, state of the art was a muzzle loaded musket that took three minutes to reload.
> 
> Now we have semi-automatic rifles that can fire 30 rounds a minute.
> 
> ...



You actually vote for the slave rapist, slave murdering political party…….the democrat party was created by two slave rapists……..and you vote for them


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Cars are so mich more deadly than guns, cars kill more people accidentally than guns do intentionally, you idiot….



Cars aren't designed to kill people.   If you want to treat cars like guns, let's have licensing, registration, mandentory insurance AND a large section of police manpower to enforce it.  

"But the Founding Fathers SAAAAAID I can have guns!"   



2aguy said:


> It doesn’t matter how many violent criminals you put in prison if you keep letting them back out…you idiot.



Except we can't lock up everyone.  There are 100 million Americans with a police record.  We have 7 million on probation or parole.   Eventually, you have to make a decision who to let out.  




2aguy said:


> You actually vote for the slave rapist, slave murdering political party…….the democrat party was created by two slave rapists……..and you vote for them


Do you just have macros where you repeat the same phrases?  Does the NRA pay you by the word?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 1, 2022)

fncceo said:


> Except that it's un-Constitutional.


No it isn't.

That was easy.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Cars aren't designed to kill people.   If you want to treat cars like guns, let's have licensing, registration, mandentory insurance AND a large section of police manpower to enforce it.
> 
> "But the Founding Fathers SAAAAAID I can have guns!"
> 
> ...



Cars accidentally kill more people than guns do when criminals intentionally shoot people….so that means, you dumb ass…cars are more dangerous than guns and need to be banned.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Cars accidentally kill more people than guns do when criminals intentionally shoot people….so that means, you dumb ass…cars are more dangerous than guns and need to be banned.


Yes, let's compare car regulation and gun regulation ALL DAY.

You guys step in it every time, with that silly argument.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, we were able to win the revolution because France and Spain intervened on our side to stick it to the Brits...


The war would have been over in the first year, two at the outside without armed militias and we'd still be speaking Th Queen's English.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Yes, let's compare car regulation and gun regulation ALL DAY.
> 
> You guys step in it every time, with that silly argument.


Owning and driving cars are heavily restricted privileges, not rights.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Cars aren't designed to kill people. If you want to treat cars like guns, let's have licensing, registration, mandentory insurance AND a large section of police manpower to enforce it.


Guns aren't designed to kill people either, they are simply made to deliver projectiles with varying rates of fire and accuracy to whatever target the user chooses.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Today we have tanks, howitzers, fighters, bombers, and fucking NUKES. We aren't going to arm ourselves well enough to resist anyone..


Fabricated BS.  Try telling that to the VC and Taliban and watch them laugh you out of the room just before executing you.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> It doesn’t matter how many violent criminals you put in prison if you keep letting them back out…you idiot.


There be the key point.

We saw a steady, rapid and pronounced drop in violent crime during the period such laws as 3 strikes were in force and drug trafficking laws that landed people in prison for 20 years or more.

If you want to reduce any kind of crime the place to start is with making punishments so severe the risk of committing a given crime simply isn't worth the potential pay off.

Of course, citizens being armed themselves is also a huge deterrent.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Cars accidentally kill more people than guns do when criminals intentionally shoot people….so that means, you dumb ass…cars are more dangerous than guns and need to be banned.



Actually, you keep trying to qualify numbers. 

We have 45,222 gun deaths a year in this country. This includes suicides, domestic violence and accidents, not just criminals. 














						What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
					

In 2020, the U.S. experienced a record number of gun murders, as well as a near-record number of gun suicides.




					www.pewresearch.org
				




We have 42,915 automobile deaths a year. 









						Motor vehicle fatality rate in U.S. by year - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




But let's look at cars. 

Every year, the Auto industry puts in new features to make cars safer.  We have mandatory licensing, insurance, registration, safety checks, air quality checks in order to be able to operate a car.  We have thousands of police whose job it is to drive out there on the roads to make sure that people are operating their cars safely.   In short, we have a lot of government regulation into car ownership.  You might even call it "Well-regulated".  

And the Auto industry welcomes this.  They don't want their products associated with fiery death.  

NOW- 

The Gun industry is exactly the opposite.  They produce products that are more dangerous every year, they push back against every gun law, no matter how sensible.  They specifically market to the most fringe characters, which is why you have 3% of the population with 50% of the guns.


----------



## fncceo (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> But let's look at cars.



I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure the privilege to drive isn't a Constitutional Right.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Fabricated BS. Try telling that to the VC and Taliban and watch them laugh you out of the room just before executing you.



Really?  When did they "defeat us".  We kept beating them senseless for years until we realized there wasn't much point to any of it.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> There be the key point.
> 
> We saw a steady, rapid and pronounced drop in violent crime during the period such laws as 3 strikes were in force and drug trafficking laws that landed people in prison for 20 years or more.
> 
> ...



We saw a drop in violent crime because after 1990, the Baby Boomers started aging out of the "Committing dumb ass crime" demographic.  

If armed citizens were a deterent, Crime wouldn't be shooting through the roof now.  

I go back to my point.  We have 100 million Americans with a police record.   How many of them are we going to lock up rather than just stop handing out guns to the ones we don't.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

fncceo said:


> I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure the privilege to drive isn't a Constitutional Right.



Neither is gun ownership.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> The war would have been over in the first year, two at the outside without armed militias and we'd still be speaking Th Queen's English.



Actually, most of the fighting was done between loyalists and rebels.   The British didn't start sending regular troops until later, and they never sent all that many of them.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> Owning and driving cars are heavily restricted privileges, not rights.



And so should owning guns. 

Here's the thing.  Cars are actually necessary.  We need them to go to work, shop, get from place to place.  

There's really no good reason to own a gun.   Other countries ban private gun ownership, and they have nowhere near the problems we have. 







Big Bend Texas said:


> Guns aren't designed to kill people either, they are simply made to deliver projectiles with varying rates of fire and accuracy to whatever target the user chooses.



Wow....  I think you just broke the stupid meter...


----------



## fncceo (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Neither is gun ownership.



You're actually wrong ...

“*A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*”


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Really?  When did they "defeat us".  We kept beating them senseless for years until we realized there wasn't much point to any of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We left when we figured out that we could never win in either place without such losses as to make Americans rise up in revolt to stop those wars.

Rates are relative to total population so your claim is bogus on it's face Boomers started aging out of the ages where most commit crimes in the seventies and ourselves and our kids have been producing fewer children since that time with each successive generation. 

Crime isn't shooting through the roof anywhere except in blue cities and primarily in states that make lawful carry heavily restricted.

We say just a few days ago a woman stop a mass shooting in progress with her PC weapon so don't tell me carry does not stop crimes or that it isn't a deterrent.

Start locking up the worst violent and drug offenders for 3-5 decades or more and we won't have to worry long about a growing prison population because eventually the consequences become enough of a deterrent you have far fewer new offenders.

It worked from 94-09 when such things as 3 Strikes laws started being repealed so we know we can make it work again.

Nobody is "giving" guns to criminals so stop lying.

Lawful licensed and concealed carry work as very effective tools with very few and very rare negative consequences and even those far outweigh the risk of even more violent crime in their Absence.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow.... I think you just broke the stupid meter...


No, as usual that would be yourself.  No gun is designed to kill people, they are all simply manufactured to fire different rounds, at varying rates of fire and accuracy.

How they are used is always determined by the person holding them.

Even our military rifles and pistols are not designed to kill, just to stop the enemy and arguably a wounded enemy soldier or terrorist is far more valuable than a dead one because nobody is going to waste lives trying to rescue the dead.

Self defense is the most basic right we have and without firearms that becomes exponentially more difficult particularly for the old, sick, weak, and small.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, most of the fighting was done between loyalists and rebels. The British didn't start sending regular troops until later, and they never sent all that many of them.


There were more than 10,000 British Regulars in "The Colonies" at the outbreak of hostilities and their loyalists militias were always under British control through British Officers using British Military Tactics.

At any given time they had more than 20 warships either patrolling the east coast or directly supporting campaigns on coastal cities in what became the US.

You seem to know as little about history as you do firearms.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Neither is gun ownership.


Rabid lefties and their ''.... because I say so'', arguments. Pretty darn funny.










						Supreme Court: Gun Ownership an Individual Right
					

In a 5-4 vote Thursday, the U.S. Supreme Court declared for the first time that the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees the right of individual Americans to keep and bear arms. The court said gun ownership is an individual right, not connected with military service, and that it can...




					www.npr.org
				




In a 5-4 vote Thursday, the U.S. Supreme Court declared for the first time that the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees the right of individual Americans to keep and bear arms. The court said gun ownership is an individual right, not connected with military service, and that it can be regulated in some ways.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> We left when we figured out that we could never win in either place without such losses as to make Americans rise up in revolt to stop those wars.



No, we left when we realized our government lied to us about why we were over there to start with.  



Big Bend Texas said:


> There were more than 10,000 British Regulars in "The Colonies" at the outbreak of hostilities and their loyalists militias were always under British control through British Officers using British Military Tactics.
> 
> At any given time they had more than 20 warships either patrolling the east coast or directly supporting campaigns on coastal cities in what became the US.
> 
> You seem to know as little about history as you do firearms.



Actually, those are pretty minimal numbers compared to the military strengths in Europe at the time.  10K soliders and 20 ships?  That's kind of a joke. 

The reality is, the British never controlled that much of the country during the war.  They took New York, they held Philadelphia for a time, a few other ports and that was kind of it.  They didn't flood the country with troops because they didn't have them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Rabid lefties and their ''.... because I say so'', arguments. Pretty darn funny.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So if it was that obvious, why did it take until 2010 for a bare majority of the court to determine that?  

This is the problem with legislating from the bench, whether it be Heller or Roe v. Wade.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So if it was that obvious, why did it take until 2010 for a bare majority of the court to determine that?
> 
> This is the problem with legislating from the bench, whether it be Heller or Roe v. Wade.



Why do post meaningless comments about matters you know nothing about and then make meaningless excuses and sidesteps for those false and innacurate comments?


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, you keep trying to qualify numbers.
> 
> We have 45,222 gun deaths a year in this country. This includes suicides, domestic violence and accidents, not just criminals.
> 
> ...




Qualifying?

No, telling the truth....the majority of gun deaths are suicide.

The majority of gun murder victims are criminals, not normal people.

The majority of the non-criminal murder victims are the friends, family and associates of criminals hit by mistake.....

Americans use their legal guns to stop rape, robbery, murder, beatings, stabbings, and even mass public shootings....like in West Virginia this week.....1.1 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease Control...1.5 million according to the Centers for Disease Control, or 2.5 million according to the most thorough research by Gary Kleck back in the 1990s....


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So if it was that obvious, why did it take until 2010 for a bare majority of the court to determine that?
> 
> This is the problem with legislating from the bench, whether it be Heller or Roe v. Wade.




Moron, up until fascists like you tried to ban guns, there was no reason to state the fucking obvious......now, we have to explain everything at the level of a 5 year old so dumb asses like you can't fool uninformed Americans..


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Owning and driving cars are heavily restricted privileges, not rights.


So? I don't care what you call them. Rights can be regulated, too.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So? I don't care what you call them. Rights can be regulated, too.




Yes....the national socialists regulated all kinds of Rights in Germany......


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yes....the national socialists regulated all kinds of Rights in Germany......


As has every modern country. Sorry, your specious emotional appeal won't work on me.


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So? I don't care what you call them. Rights can be regulated, too.


According to the Supreme Court such regulations are limited to time, manner, and place.

What part of, "Shall not be infringed" is so damned difficult for you folks to wrap your head's around?


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> As has every modern country. Sorry, your specious emotional appeal won't work on me.


You are going to be extremely disappointed and will be left in tears come November 3rd when your hopes and dreams take a dive off into the Rio Grande Gorge.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> According to the Supreme Court such regulations are limited to time, manner, and place.
> 
> What part of, "Shall not be infringed" is so damned difficult for you folks to wrap your head's around?


What part of "gun control laws are constitutional" and "the second amendment does not guarantee the right of anyone to own any weapon at any time" do you not get? I mean, it's been 83 years for fuck's sake. Need another 83 to puzzle it out?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> You are going to be extremely disappointed and will be left in tears come November 3rd when your hopes and dreams take a dive off into the Rio Grande Gorge.


Not really. You make this mistake a lot. I am not a squealing cultist, beholden to demagogues. You are. So naturally, you assume others are like you.

I am not like you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Qualifying?
> 
> No, telling the truth....the majority of gun deaths are suicide.
> 
> The majority of gun murder victims are criminals, not normal people.



Ah, so the UNTERMENSCHEN are dying, so it doesn't matter, right...

Hey, maybe THIS should be your avatar.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron, up until fascists like you tried to ban guns, there was no reason to state the fucking obvious......now, we have to explain everything at the level of a 5 year old so dumb asses like you can't fool uninformed Americans..



Actually, up until 1977, everyone kind of understood what common sense gun laws were, and no one ever tried to take your guns, buddy.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, up until 1977, everyone kind of understood what common sense gun laws were, and no one ever tried to take your guns, buddy.


Uh oh. Whenever I read rabid leftists using the "everyone kind of understood", slogan, it really means "we rabid leftists have 100% certainty with 0% facts.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Uh oh. Whenever I read rabid leftists using the "everyone kind of understood", slogan, it really means "we rabid leftists have 100% certainty with 0% facts.


In other words, you have no counterpoint or contrary facts.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 2, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> In other words, you have no counterpoint or contrary facts.


In other words, you have no facts, details or evidence to support the "everyone kind of understood", nonsense. 

Who is "everyone". 

What, precisely, was "kind of understood"?

Everyone "kind of understands you dont know what you're talking about".


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Jun 2, 2022)

Hollie said:


> In other words, you have no facts, details or evidence to support the "everyone kind of understood", nonsense.


Hmm, I think I kind of do. This refers to the little resistance to the gun control laws up to that time. Gun control laws supported by both parties and even the NRA.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, up until 1977, everyone kind of understood what common sense gun laws were, and no one ever tried to take your guns, buddy.



Nope.....you could buy Thompson submachine guns through catalogs.......you doofus.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 3, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Uh oh. Whenever I read rabid leftists using the "everyone kind of understood", slogan, it really means "we rabid leftists have 100% certainty with 0% facts.



Okay, if you want some facts.  In 1968, the passed the Gun Control Act.  The NRA, rather than rabidly opposing it, fully supported it.   When JFK was murdered with a mail order rifle, that was banned.   When the Black Panthers started walking around with shotguns after the cops murdered some of their leaders, Ronald Reagan and other governors passed laws to prevent that sort of thing, and the NRA supported it.  



Hollie said:


> In other words, you have no facts, details or evidence to support the "everyone kind of understood", nonsense.
> 
> Who is "everyone".
> 
> ...



I just gave you a list of examples... 



2aguy said:


> Nope.....you could buy Thompson submachine guns through catalogs.......you doofus.



Until Gangsters started using them in drive by shootings, and then you couldn't.    See, that's how it worked in the pre-crazy days.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, if you want some facts.  In 1968, the passed the Gun Control Act.  The NRA, rather than rabidly opposing it, fully supported it.   When JFK was murdered with a mail order rifle, that was banned.   When the Black Panthers started walking around with shotguns after the cops murdered some of their leaders, Ronald Reagan and other governors passed laws to prevent that sort of thing, and the NRA supported it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And the criminals still used them....you idiot........

The original gun control laws in New York were created to protect the democrat party thugs rousting businesses in New York....gun control is always about disarming the victims of criminals and government...as we have seen all throughout history......


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And the criminals still used them....you idiot........
> 
> The original gun control laws in New York were created to protect the democrat party thugs rousting businesses in New York....gun control is always about disarming the victims of criminals and government...as we have seen all throughout history......



Most gun violence is self-inflicted.  - Suicide, Domestic Violence and accidents.  

Yeah, part of the reason why you had that was you had people shooting at any black person who looked at them funny.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, if you want some facts.  In 1968, the passed the Gun Control Act.  The NRA, rather than rabidly opposing it, fully supported it.   When JFK was murdered with a mail order rifle, that was banned.   When the Black Panthers started walking around with shotguns after the cops murdered some of their leaders, Ronald Reagan and other governors passed laws to prevent that sort of thing, and the NRA supported it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You might want to consider some facts. The 1968 Gun Control Act was not the sweeping ban on firearms and crippling demolition of individual rights proposed by the rabid dems.








						House Dem declares gun control will happen even if it means abolishing filibuster or expanding Supreme Court
					

A House Democrat Thursday said his party will abolish the Senate filibuster and pack the Supreme Court to pass gun legislation.




					www.foxnews.com
				





What we have now are extremist leftists with a single-minded focus of authoritarianism.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Most gun violence is self-inflicted.  - Suicide, Domestic Violence and accidents.
> 
> Yeah, part of the reason why you had that was you had people shooting at any black person who looked at them funny.




Yeah.....so banning guns for people who don't commit suicide or beat their wives won't stop suicide or guys beating their wives....they can commit suicide like the Japanese, South Koreans, or Chinese do, or they can stab their wives to death or beat them with hammers....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You might want to consider some facts. The 1968 Gun Control Act was not the sweeping ban on firearms and crippling demolition of individual rights proposed by the rabid dems.



Yawn...  I'm all for a less sweeping law that keeps guns out of the hands of people like Salvador Ramos... 

but if you think the only way to keep guns out of his hands is to take them out of yours, too... I'm down with that.  

My point was, the NRA used to support sensible gun control.  Today, they go around suing any town that even tries MODERATE laws to keep guns out of the hands of the crazies. 



2aguy said:


> Yeah.....so banning guns for people who don't commit suicide or beat their wives won't stop suicide or guys beating their wives....they can commit suicide like the Japanese, South Koreans, or Chinese do, or they can stab their wives to death or beat them with hammers....



Those Asian cultures accept suicide as normal... we don't.  

Most of us are getting pretty sick and tired of being held hostage to the Ammosexuals.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yawn...  I'm all for a less sweeping law that keeps guns out of the hands of people like Salvador Ramos...
> 
> but if you think the only way to keep guns out of his hands is to take them out of yours, too... I'm down with that.
> 
> ...


The NRA and, for that matter, responsible, legal gun owners support sensible gun control. It's senseless to presume that the rabid leftist version of gun confiscation and outright bans is in any way sensible. 

If you think the only way to impose leftist authoritarianism is to strip away portions of the Constitution, you can flail your ''I'll confiscate your Firearms" Pom Poms before the Supreme court. I'm down with that.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> The NRA and, for that matter, responsible, legal gun owners support sensible gun control. It's senseless to presume that the rabid leftist version of gun confiscation and outright bans is in any way sensible.
> 
> If you think the only way to impose leftist authoritarianism is to strip away portions of the Constitution, you can flail your ''I'll confiscate your Firearms" Pom Poms before the Supreme court. I'm down with that.



What sensible gun control is that. 

An 18 year old kid with mental problems and a juvenile record was able to walk into a gun store and LEGALLY buy two military grade weapons, which he used to murder 21 people. 

What part of that is sensible to you?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> What sensible gun control is that.
> 
> An 18 year old kid with mental problems and a juvenile record was able to walk into a gun store and LEGALLY buy two military grade weapons, which he used to murder 21 people.
> 
> What part of that is sensible to you?


Leftists / gun fetishists insist that legal, responsible gun owners be punished for the crimes of the mentally disturbed. That is not a principle of law that applies in this country.

It's a failing of those same Leftists / gun fetishists who use terms such as ''military grade'' weapons when they hear slogans spewed from the wailing, screeching liberal media talking heads. What, exactly, is ''military grade'' about an AR-15? Describe what makes any commonly purchased civilian firearm ''military grade''. You can't. You simply repeat leftist slogans because you know nothing of firearms and the leftist script is not to be veered from.

Why isn't your dtivers license suspended until you take a drivers education course because someone else was drinking and driving and caused an accident?


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yawn...  I'm all for a less sweeping law that keeps guns out of the hands of people like Salvador Ramos...
> 
> but if you think the only way to keep guns out of his hands is to take them out of yours, too... I'm down with that.
> 
> ...




The NRA actually supports sensible gun laws....no guns for violent felons, no guns for the dangerously mentally ill.......

You want to take guns from people who committed no crime...

I know, you play games with the suicide rate and pretend that Japan having a higher suicide rate vs. the U.S. is related to their culture...while denying the criminal culture of the U.S........but you can't explain how it is they commit suicide more often without guns than Americans do with guns.....


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> What sensible gun control is that.
> 
> An 18 year old kid with mental problems and a juvenile record was able to walk into a gun store and LEGALLY buy two military grade weapons, which he used to murder 21 people.
> 
> What part of that is sensible to you?




He didn't have a juvenile record...you liar...if he had, it would have popped on the Federal Background check that they did on him.....

You just lied right there....because the truth doesn't support anything you believe.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Leftists / gun fetishists insist that legal, responsible gun owners be punished for the crimes of the mentally disturbed. That is not a principle of law that applies in this country.



Really, then why do I have to put my shoes in an X-ray machine every time I go through the airport because 20 years ago, some idiot tried to light his shoes on fire? 
Why do I have to pull off three levels of protective seals because 40 years ago, some idiot poisoned some Tylenol. 



Hollie said:


> It's a failing of those same Leftists / gun fetishists who use terms such as ''military grade'' weapons when they hear slogans spewed from the wailing, screeching liberal media talking heads. What, exactly, is ''military grade'' about an AR-15? Describe what makes any commonly purchased civilian firearm ''military grade''. You can't. You simply repeat leftist slogans because you know nothing of firearms and the leftist script is not to be veered from.



Here's what makes it "military grade" - other than a sear that keeps it from firing on full automatic, the AR-15 is IDENTICAL to the M-16 I used to carry in the army.  It was specifically designed to meet standards put down by the US Army.   



2aguy said:


> He didn't have a juvenile record...you liar...if he had, it would have popped on the Federal Background check that they did on him.....
> 
> You just lied right there....because the truth doesn't support anything you believe.











						Salvador Ramos Arrested 4 Years Ago for Planning Attack at 18—Texas Rep.
					

Texas Rep. Tony Gonzales claimed the Uvalde shooter had been arrested for planning a school shooting once he turned 18.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Really, then why do I have to put my shoes in an X-ray machine every time I go through the airport because 20 years ago, some idiot tried to light his shoes on fire?
> Why do I have to pull off three levels of protective seals because 40 years ago, some idiot poisoned some Tylenol.
> 
> 
> ...




Wrong....the M-16 you carried had the ability to fire fully automatic.......big fucking difference.....

The AR-15 is no different from any other rifle in this country.....it fires one bullet, for each pull of the trigger, just like every other rifle that is a semi-auto rifle....

You assholes think you can use it to scare uninformed Americans into giving you the power to ban guns....

*The FOIA request itself was prompted from a Nov. 2017 article in The Atlantic in which the magazine, unsurprisingly to anyone familiar with its anti-gun bent, attempted to bolster a claim that “these rifles were meant for the military, not civilians.”*

*“Colt sent a pilot model rifle (serial no. GX4968) to the BATF for civilian sale approval on Oct. 23, 1963. It was approved on Dec. 10, 1963, and sales of the ‘Model R6000 Colt AR-15 SP1 Sporter Rifle’ began on Jan 2, 1964,”

one critic of the article contended. “The M16 wasn’t issued to infantry units until 1965 (as the XM16E1), wasn’t standardized as the M16A1 until 1967, and didn’t officially replace the M14 until 1969.”*




Original ATF AR-15 Classification Refutes Claim that Rifle ‘Not Meant’ for Civilians


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wrong....the M-16 you carried had the ability to fire fully automatic.......big fucking difference.....
> 
> The AR-15 is no different from any other rifle in this country.....it fires one bullet, for each pull of the trigger, just like every other rifle that is a semi-auto rifle....



Except it has a longer range than most firearms, and a higher rate of fire, and can do more damage when it hits someone, which is why it's the gun of choice for mass shooters. 

The M-16's ability to fire full auto wasn't really that useful, which is why it was replaced by the M249 for the auto-gunners in infantry squads.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Except it has a longer range than most firearms, and a higher rate of fire, and can do more damage when it hits someone, which is why it's the gun of choice for mass shooters.
> 
> The M-16's ability to fire full auto wasn't really that useful, which is why it was replaced by the M249 for the auto-gunners in infantry squads.




It isn't longer range than most firearms you idiot......it is a rifle......just like any other rifle...you doofus....in fact, it is less accurate than bolt action rifles at long distances..which is why you will come for bolt action rifles too...

*The M-16's ability to fire full auto wasn't really that useful, which is why it was replaced by the M249 for the auto-gunners in infantry squads.*

It doesn't matter ........ the AR-15 is a regular rifle just like all the other rifles out there...it was patented as a civilian rifle and like a lot of technology first created for civilian use, the military adopted a modified version of it.....

Ever Watch the show Practical to Tactical on cable....where the host takes you through civilian things the military took on and vice versa...you moroon...


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Really, then why do I have to put my shoes in an X-ray machine every time I go through the airport because 20 years ago, some idiot tried to light his shoes on fire?
> Why do I have to pull off three levels of protective seals because 40 years ago, some idiot poisoned some Tylenol.
> 
> 
> ...


I have no reason to believe you ever got close to an M-16. At any rate your stuttering and mumbling about airport security has no connection with this thread. 

''Other than a sear''... Well, yeah. Other than a sear and other an FFL is required for a civilian to own an automatic weapon and other than they look similar..... 

What other nonsensical attempts at comparisons can you offer?

You offered nothing about ''military grade'' weapons that magically tranforns an AR-15 to a M-16. Its just a nonsensical attempt at a pointless comparison. 

I suppose a .308 Remington magically transforms into an M-40 because it kinda', sorta' looks the same.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> I have no reason to believe you ever got close to an M-16. At any rate your stuttering and mumbling about airport security has no connection with this thread.
> 
> ''Other than a sear''... Well, yeah. Other than a sear and other an FFL is required for a civilian to own an automatic weapon and other than they look similar.....
> 
> ...




Yeah......if joe isn't lying he isn't posting.....

The AR-15 has never been used by the military.....bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns...the guns we are told are o.k.?  They are actual, current military weapons used by militaries all round the world....

And that fact will be how the anti-gun fanatics go after them after they get semi-automatic rifles....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> It isn't longer range than most firearms you idiot......it is a rifle......just like any other rifle...you doofus....in fact, it is less accurate than bolt action rifles at long distances..which is why you will come for bolt action rifles too...



Bolt rifles don't have that kind of fire rate.. 

Which is why the army hasn't used them since WWII. 



2aguy said:


> It doesn't matter ........ the AR-15 is a regular rifle just like all the other rifles out there...it was patented as a civilian rifle and like a lot of technology first created for civilian use, the military adopted a modified version of it.....
> 
> Ever Watch the show Practical to Tactical on cable....where the host takes you through civilian things the military took on and vice versa...you moroon...



I don't watch Ammosexual Porn like you do...  frankly, how  much time do you spend thinking about guns?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Except it has a longer range than most firearms, and a higher rate of fire, and can do more damage when it hits someone, which is why it's the gun of choice for mass shooters.
> 
> The M-16's ability to fire full auto wasn't really that useful, which is why it was replaced by the M249 for the auto-gunners in infantry squads.



That was terrible.

Did you know the Army has contracted with Sig Sauer for a new rifle and cartridge intended to address some perceived shortcomings of the M-16 cartridge in terms of range and 'knock down' power?

Did you know the M-16 is not a 'long range' firearm due to reasons which preceded the Army's decision?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> That was terrible.
> 
> Did you know the Army has contracted with Sig Sauer for a new rifle and cartridge intended to address some perceived shortcomings of the M-16 cartridge in terms of range and 'knock down' power?
> 
> Did you know the M-16 is not a 'long range' firearm due to reasons which preceded the Army's decision?



Actually, the M16 is an awesome weapon.   I've talked to Special Forces guys who can't stop praising it for it's efficiency.  

Now that said, we are talking about a 50 year old design.  I honestly can't think of any other assault rifle that has had that long of a service life.  I'm actually kind of surprised that the Army hasn't looked towards replacing it. 

By comparison, the M-14 rifle was the standard issue for the army for only about five years.  The M-1 Garand was only standard issue for 22 years.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Bolt rifles don't have that kind of fire rate..
> 
> Which is why the army hasn't used them since WWII.
> 
> ...




The army uses bolt action rifles.........every branch of the services.......

I don't think about guns.....I think about human rights and the way idiots like you are willing to take them away.


----------



## 2aguy (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, the M16 is an awesome weapon.   I've talked to Special Forces guys who can't stop praising it for it's efficiency.
> 
> Now that said, we are talking about a 50 year old design.  I honestly can't think of any other assault rifle that has had that long of a service life.  I'm actually kind of surprised that the Army hasn't looked towards replacing it.
> 
> By comparison, the M-14 rifle was the standard issue for the army for only about five years.  The M-1 Garand was only standard issue for 22 years.




The reason they were replaced was weight, difficulty cleaning them, and the weight of the ammo.

The army went with the lighter rifle, and the lighter ammo....

They are now looking to replace the M-4 with a weapon with more firepower...

So soon....the M-4 will no longer be a military weapon....what will you assholes say then....?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, the M16 is an awesome weapon.   I've talked to Special Forces guys who can't stop praising it for it's efficiency.
> 
> Now that said, we are talking about a 50 year old design.  I honestly can't think of any other assault rifle that has had that long of a service life.  I'm actually kind of surprised that the Army hasn't looked towards replacing it.
> 
> By comparison, the M-14 rifle was the standard issue for the army for only about five years.  The M-1 Garand was only standard issue for 22 years.


"Assault rifle". Now that's pretty darn funny. Typical for leftist wind-up dolls. Pull a string and a monotone voice recites a slogan. 

What is an "assault rifle"? I never saw one a section for those in a firearms store. 

Otherwise, yes, your nonsense claim about an AR-15 being a long range rifle suggests you have no experience with that rifle. 

I've also spoken with special forces guys. They never recall speaking with you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I don't think about guns.....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Otherwise, yes, your nonsense claim about an AR-15 being a long range rifle suggests you have no experience with that rifle.



You mean other than 11 years in the Army firing the M16? 

Maximum Effective range of 420 meters... That's a number that sticks with me, even 40 years later.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You mean other than 11 years in the Army firing the M16?
> 
> Maximum Effective range of 420 meters... That's a number that sticks with me, even 40 years later.



Aren't the interwebs great? A poser like you who thinks an AR is a long range rifle can make believe he knows the first thing about firearms.

Do you also spend your weekends commanding the French forces at Waterloo?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Aren't the interwebs great? A poser like you who thinks an AR is a long range rifle can make believe he knows the first thing about firearms.
> 
> Do you also spend your weekends commanding the French forces at Waterloo?



Again, my MOS in the army - 76Y.   Unit Supply Specialist/Small Arms repair.  Thanks for asking.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, my MOS in the army - 76Y.   Unit Supply Specialist/Small Arms repair.  Thanks for asking.


Again. Isn't the internet great when posers like you can be anythig you want?

How is that Waterloo campaign going?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Again. Isn't the internet great when posers like you can be anythig you want?
> 
> How is that Waterloo campaign going?



Wouldn't know..  

If I publish pictures of myself in uniform, will it get you to admit you were wrong?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Wouldn't know..
> 
> If I publish pictures of myself in uniform, will it get you to admit you were wrong?


Are you going to scour the web for photos?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 4, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Are you going to scour the web for photos?


Don't have to, I can post one right now. 

And a picture of myself today giving you the finger.  

But before I do, will you admit that you were wrong if I do?


----------



## Hollie (Jun 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Don't have to, I can post one right now.
> 
> And a picture of myself today giving you the finger.
> 
> But before I do, will you admit that you were wrong if I do?


So, yes. You're going to scour the web for photos. 

I can use Photoshop, too.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> So, yes. You're going to scour the web for photos.
> 
> I can use Photoshop, too.



So you'll admit you have no integrity.. 

Got it.  

Not that I expected anything less.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 5, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


A generation is approx 20 to 30 years, the average being 25 years. The gun problem is the current generation. So why not scrap the 2nd Amendment in 40 years time. Many older gun nuts will be dead by then, the not so older ones will probably be into retirement. Then the rest have 40 years to adjust, and the unborn will enjoy the new gun culture, as it gets safer. Then simply start adopting gun laws and regs that other Western civilized countries have


----------



## Big Bend Texas (Jun 5, 2022)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> What part of "gun control laws are constitutional" and "the second amendment does not guarantee the right of anyone to own any weapon at any time" do you not get? I mean, it's been 83 years for fuck's sake. Need another 83 to puzzle it out?


Again, those would be the time, manner, and place limitations on where the right may be exercised.

The decision in no way left room for broad bans on guns or carry limiting the rights, of, "The People".

Individuals through due process may lose any or all of their rights up to and including the right to life.

The original NFA was gutted by the SCOTUS and lower courts so try again.


----------



## Hollie (Jun 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So you'll admit you have no integrity..
> 
> Got it.
> 
> Not that I expected anything less.


Admit you're a fraud. You will feel better about yourself,


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 5, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Admit you're a fraud. You will feel better about yourself,



I don't have to, I know what I've done...


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 5, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Again, those would be the time, manner, and place limitations on where the right may be exercised.
> 
> The decision in no way left room for broad bans on guns or carry limiting the rights, of, "The People".
> 
> ...



And look how well that's worked out for us.   We can't even send kids to school without bullet proof backpacks.


----------



## YoursTruly (Jun 5, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> A generation is approx 20 to 30 years, the average being 25 years. The gun problem is the current generation. So why not scrap the 2nd Amendment in 40 years time. Many older gun nuts will be dead by then, the not so older ones will probably be into retirement. Then the rest have 40 years to adjust, and the unborn will enjoy the new gun culture, as it gets safer. Then simply start adopting gun laws and regs that other Western civilized countries have



That's probably the way it'll go down.  It's gonna take decades.

I think the psych test is unconstitutional. But in todays climate, you have to wonder why these psycho's are able to buy a gun legally.  It's because no one knew how much of a psycho they were until after the triggers were pulled. 
And throw in the fact that there's rarely a decent gun owner around to take out the psycho before the bodies start dropping.

It's a huge mess. A lot more armed decent gun owners, more gun restrictions or something along the lines of a psych test isn't an absolute solution, by any means.   The radicals on both sides of this issue need not be part of this discussion. The radical left wants to keep decent gun owners from carrying. And the radical right will protect a psycho's right to buy and carry.<<< Retarded. Both of them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 5, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> That's probably the way it'll go down. It's gonna take decades.
> 
> I think the psych test is unconstitutional. But in todays climate, you have to wonder why these psycho's are able to buy a gun legally. It's because no one knew how much of a psycho they were until after the triggers were pulled.



Bullshit.  

James Holmes was in the process of being expelled from his school because of his mental issues. 
Adam Lanza's mom was in the process of institutionalizing him before he went on his rampage (with her guns)
Seung-Hui Cho (the VA Tech Shooter) was sent to a mental hospital (after months of anti-social behavior on campus) and found to be a danger to himself and others. 
Nicholas Cruz had a long history of mental illness and incidents with the police. 
Jared Loughner was suspended from his college after numerous disruptive incidents on campus. 

I'm sure once we get Salvador Ramos' juvey records unsealed, we are going to find out all sorts of shit about him, too! 
​


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 5, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> That's probably the way it'll go down.  It's gonna take decades.
> 
> I think the psych test is unconstitutional. But in todays climate, you have to wonder why these psycho's are able to buy a gun legally.  It's because no one knew how much of a psycho they were until after the triggers were pulled.
> And throw in the fact that there's rarely a decent gun owner around to take out the psycho before the bodies start dropping.
> ...


Decent or not, there's no reason for anyone to walk about in public with a gun, concealed or not. If they try that in the UK, the arms unit of the police will be on them like a ton of bricks because the public would have rang the cops. Then they'll be in deep shit.

And the crux of the matter is, how do we know if  someone buying the gun is decent? Presumed because the 2A gives them the Right?


----------



## YoursTruly (Jun 5, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Decent or not, there's no reason for anyone to walk about in public with a gun, concealed or not. If they try that in the UK, the arms unit of the police will be on them like a ton of bricks because the public would have rang the cops. Then they'll be in deep shit.
> 
> And the crux of the matter is, how do we know if  someone buying the gun is decent? Presumed because the 2A gives them the Right?



67 billion people in the UK.
330 million  the USA. 

Pretty easy to regulate guns with so few people.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jun 5, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> *67 billion people in the UK.*
> 330 million the USA.
> 
> Pretty easy to regulate guns with so few people.


Billion, really? 

67 Million (which is what I am guessing you were trying to say) is still a fairly large group.  Yet they make gun laws work just fine.  Japan has 110 Million, they make gun laws work just fine.  

I'm not even suggesting we go as far as Japan or the UK.   Going as far as Germany (Gun ownership, but highly regulated) would probably be fine.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 6, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> 67 billion people in the UK.
> 330 million  the USA.
> 
> Pretty easy to regulate guns with so few people.


Personally, I think 67 billion is quite a lot 

How many gun owners are they in both countries and what's that per capita. That'll give you a more realistic comparison


----------



## YoursTruly (Jun 6, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Personally, I think 67 billion is quite a lot
> 
> How many gun owners are they in both countries and what's that per capita. That'll give you a more realistic comparison



Our history of guns in this country is deeply rooted. We used them to kick the Brit's butt out of our country. 

Our 2A was fine and dandy until the criminal element found ways of getting their hands on them, easily. Now we have a problem with ONLY the criminals getting them. We don't have a problem with decent, responsible gun owners. 
The democrats here want to control the rights of decent, responsible gun owners, because we're the only ones they think they can control. 
This is unacceptable because we need our guns to defend ourselves from criminals. 

You've heard of the US democrats wanting to defund our police? Giving criminals shorter prison sentencing? Some prosecutors not even indicting violent criminals.  

Just last year, one of these violent thugs ran his car through a parade. The guy had a rap sheet as long as your leg. And was still out in our society. 
George Floyd was allowed into our society even after he robbed and beat a woman at gun point. And now he's a martyr for the left. 
Those of us who aren't democrats see this issue for what it is. The left is too lenient on violent thugs.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jun 6, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> Our history of guns in this country is deeply rooted. We used them to kick the Brit's butt out of our country.


Why did you omit that the forefather's butts were getting kicked, so the French came in to save the day for America?

Can you explain that?


----------



## YoursTruly (Jun 6, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Why did you omit that the forefather's butts were getting kicked, so the French came in to save the day for America?
> 
> Can you explain that?



We won the war.  Period. End of story. Regardless of how it happened. The Brits went home with their tails tucked. The help we got from France is irrelevant. This wasn't a detailed history lesson. It was a comment about guns. 
Why would you even mention the French if you wasn't trying to just change the subject.


----------



## miketx (Jul 7, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


Achtung Kommunisten sind hier!


----------



## Rogue AI (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> A generation is approx 20 to 30 years, the average being 25 years. The gun problem is the current generation. So why not scrap the 2nd Amendment in 40 years time. Many older gun nuts will be dead by then, the not so older ones will probably be into retirement. Then the rest have 40 years to adjust, and the unborn will enjoy the new gun culture, as it gets safer. Then simply start adopting gun laws and regs that other Western civilized countries have


So scrap a system that worked just fine for ten generations because one generation is a problem? Stay on your side of the pond you idiot.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 7, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> We won the war.  Period. End of story. Regardless of how it happened. The Brits went home with their tails tucked. The help we got from France is irrelevant. This wasn't a detailed history lesson. It was a comment about guns.
> Why would you even mention the French if you wasn't trying to just change the subject.


He still chapped ass over the ass kicking his country got from a bunch of farmers.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 7, 2022)

Rogue AI said:


> So scrap a system that worked just fine for ten generations because one generation is a problem? Stay on your side of the pond you idiot.


Those 10 generations have been doing well shooting the public. Thank goodness you're on that side of the pond with that gun mentality, you idiot.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Those 10 generations have been doing well shooting the public. Thank goodness you're on that side of the pond with that gun mentality, you idiot.




No...we are already on your side of the pond with our guns....keeping you guys from murdering each other in another war, and keeping the Russians from taking over the whole cesspool .........

American guns keep you safe, and allow you to pay for your welfare states....

I'd say, you are welcome, but you are too ungrateful for that....


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## Failzero (Jul 7, 2022)

Drug Screenings too (Especially SSRIs & Chronic )


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## Rogue AI (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Those 10 generations have been doing well shooting the public. Thank goodness you're on that side of the pond with that gun mentality, you idiot.


Not really, you said yourself the problem is recent. Or are you too stupid to remember that? Either way, your voice had no say in the issue. Run along, your government is in shambles, no doubt you have plenty of stupidity to offer to muck it more.


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## miketx (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Those 10 generations have been doing well shooting the public. Thank goodness you're on that side of the pond with that gun mentality, you idiot.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No...we are already on your side of the pond with our guns....keeping you guys from murdering each other in another war, and keeping the Russians from taking over the whole cesspool .........
> 
> American guns keep you safe, and allow you to pay for your welfare states....
> 
> I'd say, you are welcome, but you are too ungrateful for that....


Thank you for keeping us safe......oh.....hang on......would you like to try and keep yourselves safe first because you're blasting kids heads off and killing people watching fireworks. Once you've mastered then, then by all means carry on dreaming thinking you're keeping the planet safe.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 7, 2022)

Rogue AI said:


> Not really, you said yourself the problem is recent. Or are you too stupid to remember that? Either way, your voice had no say in the issue. Run along, your government is in shambles, no doubt you have plenty of stupidity to offer to muck it more.


The Tory party is changing it's leader. If you want a shambles, look who's in the White House.


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## miketx (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Thank you for keeping us safe......oh.....hang on......would you like to try and keep yourselves safe first because you're blasting kids heads off and killing people watching fireworks. Once you've mastered then, then by all means carry on dreaming thinking you're keeping the planet safe.


We have to many spineless leftists in to many positions of power to stop it now. You know people like you.


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## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Thank you for keeping us safe......oh.....hang on......would you like to try and keep yourselves safe first because you're blasting kids heads off and killing people watching fireworks. Once you've mastered then, then by all means carry on dreaming thinking you're keeping the planet safe.




Without the U.S. you guys would have been murdering each other by the end of the 1950s......and then Russia would have come in and your Queen and the royal family would have received the same treatment as the Tsar..........


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## miketx (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The Tory party is changing it's leader. If you want a shambles, look who's in the White House.


Yup people like you voted for Biden.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 7, 2022)

miketx said:


> We have to many spineless leftists in to many positions of power to stop it now. You know people like you.



People like me, what, a Conservative that voted to leave the EU and voted for the Tories. Hmm, me thinks you no thinky properly.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 7, 2022)

miketx said:


> Yup people like you voted for Biden.


So you think a Tory voter in the UK voted for Biden 🤔


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 7, 2022)

miketx said:


> View attachment 667459


Is that your party emblem !!

That's what the gun nuts will be doing in the future when the disastrous Right to Bear Arms part is scrapped.


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## Rogue AI (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The Tory party is changing it's leader. If you want a shambles, look who's in the White House.


Fair point, Biden is a disaster.  Never denied that.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 7, 2022)

Rogue AI said:


> Fair point, Biden is a disaster.  Never denied that.


And the Conservative party is full of wannabee pussy politicians with no testicles, and they keep changing the only useful one out of the lot of them. Hand on heart, I wish we had someone like Trump to sort out the pansy shit over here.


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## toobfreak (Jul 7, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.



Do what?  Just what do you expect congress to do to stop stupid people?  Do you have any idea that psych exams fail miserably at this sort of thing?  99.9% of the people who might fail such a test as mentally impaired or unstable, etc., will never pick up a gun and go shooting people while people can pass such a test with flying colors and be model citizens of the community then get up the next day and commit a serial killing.  Psych exams are not that exact, precise or revealing.


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## miketx (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> So you think a Tory voter in the UK voted for Biden 🤔


Lol you vermin never stop lying do you? I said people like him!


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## miketx (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Is that your party emblem !!
> 
> That's what the gun nuts will be doing in the future when the disastrous Right to Bear Arms part is scrapped.


Nope fits you scum to a t.


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## Deplorable Yankee (Jul 7, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


Uhhh no ...

Ssri  bans


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## toobfreak (Jul 7, 2022)

miketx said:


> Lol you vermin never stop lying do you? I said people like him!



Mike, Demtards are the same EVERYWHERE you go.  Europe set the model by which Demtards here set their watches.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Those 10 generations have been doing well shooting the public. Thank goodness you're on that side of the pond with that gun mentality, you idiot.


Stay in your lane boy and you won't get hurt


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

miketx said:


> Lol you vermin never stop lying do you? I said people like him!


Ok, so you think conservatives voted for Biden  🤔


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> .....I know, I know. It's retarded. But doing nothing is the government allowing more mass killings. I get the point, because I'm pro 2A.  Laws don't stop crime. Gun laws aren't going to stop mass shooting.  I get all that.  So I'm asking for some common sense here.....


Correct, laws don't stop crime, they reduce crime. Correct, gun laws won't stop mass shootings, they reduce them.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Stay in your lane boy and you won't get hurt


Stay in your lane girl cos you couldn't handle living in the UK.


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## para bellum (Jul 8, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> So I'm thinking, the things that would disqualify someone from legally buying a gun would be the following. Please add your ideas.
> 
> 1. Anyone with a record of violence in their recent history. Say 5 years. (per 911 calls or provable reports)
> 2. Anyone who's committed any sort of crime, using a gun. Whether it was fired or not. (holstered doesn't count as using)
> 3. Anyone with a history of mental disorders in the last 5 years. Especially those on mental meds to control their behavior.


The existing law already covers all that, and a lot more. It's on the 4473



			https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Stay in your lane girl cos you couldn't handle living in the UK.


Who in their right mind would want to live in that shithole country? Have you kissed the ass of the queen?


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## miketx (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Ok, so you think conservatives voted for Biden  🤔


Keep twisting and lying scum. It's all you do.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Who in their right mind would want to live in that shithole country? Have you kissed the ass of the queen?


Because we pipped you at the post with better freedoms and liberties. Check that thread out.

How did Biden's ass taste after you kissed his?


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## there4eyeM (Jul 8, 2022)

As certain arms can kill at kilometers' distance, serious levels of responsibility are required.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

miketx said:


> Keep twisting and lying scum. It's all you do.


You guys are coming up with the statements, I simply apply the lack of logic of those to reality.

This just highlights the fact that when your backsides get spanked in a debate, the usual childish rhetoric statements come flying out of your mouths. Apparently that's my fault, lol.

What you need to understand is, a "Conservative" can be conservative, but at the same time, enjoy a safe gun culture and national healthcare. This boils your piss because it's engraved into your brain that anyone wanting sensible gun regulations and a safe gun culture "must" be Left Wing. Your problem is, binary thinking and zero logical thinking skills.


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## miketx (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You guys are coming up the statements, I simply apply the lack of logic of those to reality.
> 
> This just highlights the fact that when your backsides get spanked in a debate, the usual childish rhetoric statements come flying out of your mouths. Apparently that's my fault, lol.
> 
> What you need to understand is, a "Conservative" can be conservative, but at the same time, enjoy a safe gun culture and national healthcare. This boils your piss because it's engraved into your brain that anyone wanting sensible gun regulations and a safe gun culture "must" be Left Wing. Your problem is, binary thinking and zero logical thinking skills.


Your desperation and lying is hilarious. You people are insane.


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## miketx (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Because we pipped you at the post with better freedoms and liberties. Check that thread out.
> 
> How did Biden's ass taste after you kissed his?


Lol,this guy is so free he will be in prison if he gets caught with a pocket knife.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

miketx said:


> Lol,this guy is so free he will be in prison if he gets caught with a pocket knife.


Go check the thread out, the list of indices are included in the link.

It debunks your rhetoric.


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## miketx (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Go check the thread out, the list of indices are included in the link.
> 
> It debunks your rhetoric.


Why? I don't read much leftist bullcrap.


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## Captain Caveman (Jul 8, 2022)

miketx said:


> Why? I don't read much leftist bullcrap.


Well, if you don't wish to educate yourself, then by all means stay ignorant. It reflects in your posts.

If you believe the indices from the countries across the globe were only done by "lefties", you certainly banged your head on every branch on the way down when you fell out of the tree.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Because we pipped you at the post with better freedoms and liberties. Check that thread out.
> 
> How did Biden's ass taste after you kissed his?


Go kiss the asshole of the queen some more


----------



## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

Big Bend Texas said:


> Prior restraint of a Constitutionally Protected Right is by definition infringing upon that right.
> 
> Absolutely not.
> 
> ...



The truth is that nobody wants existing laws enforced. 

Remember the crap over the lawyers in St. Louis. They were outside brandishing their weapons. This was illegal. In Georgia it’s called Aggravated Assault. Nobody on the right wanted the laws enforced because these fine people were standing up to BLM. 

Time after time. Incident after incident. Nobody wants the laws fully enforced. They want the laws enforced on the other side. They are the bad guys. Not our side. 

And fully enforced is not as easy as it sounds. Twenty years ago I heard of a case. A retired Army Officer owned an AR. He had fired it tens of thousands of time. The Sear had become worn through normal wear and tear. 

This man let his friend borrow the rifle. It was taken to the range. The Sear failed and the rifle went runaway. That is to say it did not reset and wait for the trigger to be pulled before it fired again. It was a malfunction. 

The Retired Army Officer was charged. Tried. And convicted. His crime? Transferring a fully automatic weapon without proper authorization or tax stamp. 

A worn out Sear got a man sent to prison. 

And the same people don’t want the same laws applied. Juveniles in Chicago with guns are criminals. Juvenile with a gun in Kenosha is a hero. 

That is the problem. The laws are viewed as something that needs to be used to control the other side. Leave our side alone. We are the good guys.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Well, if you don't wish to educate yourself, then by all means stay ignorant. It reflects in your posts.
> 
> If you believe the indices from the countries across the globe were only done by "lefties", you certainly banged your head on every branch on the way down when you fell out of the tree.


Incorrect information doesn't make it right just makes it propaganda.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> The truth is that nobody wants existing laws enforced.
> 
> Remember the crap over the lawyers in St. Louis. They were outside brandishing their weapons. This was illegal. In Georgia it’s called Aggravated Assault. Nobody on the right wanted the laws enforced because these fine people were standing up to BLM.
> 
> ...


They were on their property within rights of using their firearms


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## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> They were on their property within rights of using their firearms



No. They were not. 

Pointing a weapon at another person without a reasonable fear for your life is not legal. 

Look it up. At the time it happened I said it was dumb legally and it was dumb tactically. 

And the proof of that is that they plead guilty to a misdemeanor as part of a plea bargain. The very action the Right derides when a person on the left does it.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> No. They were not.
> 
> Pointing a weapon at another person without a reasonable fear for your life is not legal.
> 
> ...


They were on their front entrance to there castle stand your ground. And a mob is reasonable fear.


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## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> They were on their front entrance to there castle stand your ground. And a mob is reasonable fear.



Thank you for proving my point. Nobody wants the existing laws enforced. I rest my case.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Thank you for proving my point. Nobody wants the existing laws enforced. I rest my case.


That didn't make your case. It destroyed it. But because a leftists activist da ignored the law he charged the homeowner.


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## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> That didn't make your case. It destroyed it. But because a leftists activist da ignored the law he charged the homeowner.



Then why did these two lawyers not demand a trial? Why did they not risk the felony charges?


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## miketx (Jul 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Well, if you don't wish to educate yourself, then by all means stay ignorant. It reflects in your posts.
> 
> If you believe the indices from the countries across the globe were only done by "lefties", you certainly banged your head on every branch on the way down when you fell out of the tree.


You spelled indoctrinate wrong, zombie.


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## Cellblock2429 (Jul 8, 2022)

YoursTruly said:


> The times are uh changin.  If the right doesn't do something about the lefts newly attempts to dismantle the 2A, the red flood coming in Nov. won't be much more than a small wave.
> 
> The right better do something besides ignore this situation that's upon them. Speaking from a political strategy stand point, if the right tries to ignore this gun violence issue, they won't gain near as many seats.
> 
> ...


/----/ Nice try Gun Grabber. You don't fool anyone. Hows abouts psych exams for other Constitutional Rights like Free Speech and Voting?

Wanna move from a high-tax Blue State to a low-tax Red State? Not without a head shrink giving you the OK.

Even switching political parties from the DNC to GOP would require a check-up from the neck up.

And of course, you would guarantee the exams would be 100% unbiased.
BWHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Then why did these two lawyers not demand a trial? Why did they not risk the felony charges?


Probably because they were given the choice of a misdemeanor vs the cost of going to trail and face a woke jury.


----------



## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Probably because they were given the choice of a misdemeanor vs the cost of going to trail and face a woke jury.



So they stood before a Judge. They said. “We are guilty.” And surrendered the weapons they had used to the Cops. 

Now. I don’t know how it works in your little mind. But once you plead Guilty. You are admitting that you committed a crime. At least that is how it works with the rest of the Country.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> So they stood before a Judge. They said. “We are guilty.” And surrendered the weapons they had used to the Cops.
> 
> Now. I don’t know how it works in your little mind. But once you plead Guilty. You are admitting that you committed a crime. At least that is how it works with the rest of the Country.


They pled down to a lesser charge.


----------



## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> They pled down to a lesser charge.



They plead guilty. Didn’t they?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 8, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> They plead guilty. Didn’t they?


To a lesser charge because they knew they never would get a fair trial


----------



## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> To a lesser charge because they knew they never would get a fair trial



Out in Nevada. The Bundy’s got a lot of legal trouble. They fought the charges. They were acquitted in all be trial. They had the charges dismissed in another. The only people who went to prison were those who accepted the deal to plead guilty to lesser charges. 

For months we heard how the Kyle Rittenhouse would never get a fair trial. He’s walking free now isn’t he? 

Being lawyers. The couple knew that a trial. Any trial is a coin toss. They took the deal. 

They admitted guilt. They said we are guilty of this charge. 

But a fair trial isn’t based upon outcome. It is based upon process. A murderer just had his conviction overturned here in Georgia. The reason? Some of the evidence used against him was improper. The trial was unfair. The prosecutor broke the rules. A child died. And the man who killed the kid will stay in prison on other charges. But he won’t spend life in Prison. He will probably get out in a few more years. 

A fair trial is about the process. Not the outcome.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> The truth is that nobody wants existing laws enforced.
> 
> Remember the crap over the lawyers in St. Louis. They were outside brandishing their weapons. This was illegal. In Georgia it’s called Aggravated Assault. Nobody on the right wanted the laws enforced because these fine people were standing up to BLM.
> 
> ...



Wow…so much lying and distortion in just one post.

The Couple were on their own property and the democrat party brown shirts were threatening them

Gang bangers in Chicago are not kyle rittenhouse you moron…

And that officer shouldn’t have been convicted of anything…..

You anti-gun fanatics just can’t tell the truth


----------



## SavannahMann (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wow…so much lying and distortion in just one post.
> 
> The Couple were on their own property and the democrat party brown shirts were threatening them
> 
> ...



Actually. You just proved my point. You want the laws applied to them. But not to us. Whoever you think us is.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 9, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Out in Nevada. The Bundy’s got a lot of legal trouble. They fought the charges. They were acquitted in all be trial. They had the charges dismissed in another. The only people who went to prison were those who accepted the deal to plead guilty to lesser charges.
> 
> For months we heard how the Kyle Rittenhouse would never get a fair trial. He’s walking free now isn’t he?
> 
> ...


Horseshit


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## bigrebnc1775 (Jul 9, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Actually. You just proved my point. You want the laws applied to them. But not to us. Whoever you think us is.


Again wrong mob trespassers will be shot on sight.


----------

