# What is there to learn from history?



## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 1, 2012)

Simple, that history changed after millions of years when Jefferson discovered that freedom from liberal government was the missing element that had held humanity back for millions of years!!


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 1, 2012)

That's why Jefferson owned human beings, including his mistress and their children.

Edward, why are you so weird?


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## rightwinger (Sep 1, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Simple, that history changed after millions of years when Jefferson discovered that freedom from liberal government was the missing element that had held humanity back for millions of years!!



Jefferson was one of our best Democratic Presidents


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## edthecynic (Sep 1, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Simple, that history changed after millions of years when Jefferson discovered that freedom from liberal government was the missing element that had held humanity back for millions of years!!


Too stupid and 100% CON$ervoFascist. What does your fear tell you?


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## rightwinger (Sep 1, 2012)

As a Democrat, Jefferson valued liberty and freedom

Values Democrats still value


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## gipper (Sep 2, 2012)

What is there to learn from history?

I think the great Lord Acton summed it up rather well with this, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Man is a weak and fallible being.  Giving one or several people the power to control the rest of us, leads to disaster over and over again.  

Pretty much explains centuries of murder, suffering, and destruction committed by the powers that be.  You would think the people would learn, but no.  

Today power in America and around the world continues to be centralized into the hands of a few, who have and will cause great harm.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 2, 2012)

Gipper, all of that is true.

However, democracy with an enforcement of  minority rights, remains the best form of government.

This talk of communism or libertarianism in America would only bring even more suffering.


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## gipper (Sep 2, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Gipper, all of that is true.
> 
> However, democracy with an enforcement of  minority rights, remains the best form of government.
> 
> This talk of communism or libertarianism in America would only bring even more suffering.



Democracy you say?  I do not want democracy in its most pure form.  That is mob rule.  

I prefer a representative republic with many checks and balances...sort of like the one our Founders designed.


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## regent (Sep 2, 2012)

The beauty of history on these boards is that history can be what ever posters want it to be. If a poster wants Jefferson to be a conservative, bingo, Jefferson is a conservative, if he wants Romney to have delivered the Gettysburg Address, bingo Romney delivered it. These politial bends of history by poster's I call "opinion-history." Do they work, if you want to believe, they work.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 2, 2012)

Democracy with minority protection.  You ignored that second part.  No, the republic of our Founders was so impaired concerning human rights that it had to be amended.  So it was in both politics and war.  We are not going back.



gipper said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Gipper, all of that is true.
> ...


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## Moonglow (Sep 2, 2012)

gipper said:


> What is there to learn from history?
> 
> I think the great Lord Acton summed it up rather well with this, Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
> 
> ...



If you feel that the FF were purist then you have clouded your mind over with propaganda, look up Whiskey rebellion, Alien Sedition Act and the issue of slavery.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 2, 2012)

regent said:


> The beauty of history on these boards is that history can be what ever posters want it to be. If a poster wants Jefferson to be a conservative, bingo, Jefferson is a conservative,.



was there a human being on earth who was more in support of freedom from liberal government?? Why be so afraid to say??


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 2, 2012)

Jefferson owned human beings, Edward: kind of invalidates your point.  Hmmmm?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 2, 2012)

gipper said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Gipper, all of that is true.
> ...



I prefer a Constitution like the one Jefferson gave us that limits federal government to a few enumerated powers.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 2, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson owned human beings, Edward: kind of invalidates your point.  Hmmmm?



if so why be so afraid to say what point it invalidates and why?? What does your fear tell you about your IQ and character???


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 2, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Gipper, all of that is true.
> 
> However, democracy with an enforcement of  minority rights, remains the best form of government.
> 
> This talk of communism or libertarianism in America would only bring even more suffering.



Of course only a liberal could be so stupid as to imagine that limited government would cause suffering when government has always been the source of suffering in all of human history. Suppose the big liberals, Hitler Stalin and Mao had lived in libertarian countries??

See why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow, very very slow!!!


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 2, 2012)

l'il eddy knows TJ was a human owner, which invalidates l'il eddy's points.

No debate for you.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 2, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Simple, that history changed after millions of years when Jefferson discovered that freedom from liberal government was the missing element that had held humanity back for millions of years!!
> ...



If you have evidence that his party was the Democratic Party , not the Republican Party, I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away again with your liberal tail between your legs.


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## Moonglow (Sep 2, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Gipper, all of that is true.
> ...



So now you are saying that jefferson was the source of suffering.


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## Moonglow (Sep 2, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Gipper, all of that is true.
> ...



Hitler was no liberal, gheesh, rewriting history as you go?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 2, 2012)

edthecynic said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > Simple, that history changed after millions of years when Jefferson discovered that freedom from liberal government was the missing element that had held humanity back for millions of years!!
> ...



OF course if it was stupid why be so afraid to say why?? What does your fear tell us about  the liberal character and IQ ??


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 2, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> Hitler was no liberal, gheesh, rewriting history as you go?



how can you say Hitler Stalin and Mao were not liberals?? Do you know why the liberals spied for Stalin rather than Hitler??

Hitler was a National Socialist!! What more do you want? Barry had two communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders, an open socialist.

Hitler Stalin and Mao FDR LBJ were the great 20th Century liberals who got their way. So far Barry is not getting his way but we know his record and we know the government is never big enough for him


&#8220;We are socialists, we are enemies of today&#8217;s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.&#8221; ~ Adolf Hitler, May 1st, 1927 

On one occassion during WW2 Hitler even declared" basicially National Socialism and Marxism are the same" - Page 220 "Property and Freedom",Richard Pipes,Harvard University


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 2, 2012)

l'il eddy already lost this bet twice and ran away.

\





EdwardBaiamonte said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...


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## regent (Sep 2, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > The beauty of history on these boards is that history can be what ever posters want it to be. If a poster wants Jefferson to be a conservative, bingo, Jefferson is a conservative,.
> ...



Well Jefferson was indeed a liberal and had some fear of the types of governments that liberals had experienced to the Revolution. But it seems that Jefferson's fear of the government begin to change when he was the president, Jefferson used his presidency to buy Lousiana with borrowed money and most people would understand that doubling the size of the USA meant bigger government. It meant more states entering the union and,,,, well you can see that can't you?


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## gipper (Sep 3, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Democracy with minority protection.  You ignored that second part.  No, the republic of our Founders was so impaired concerning human rights that it had to be amended.  So it was in both politics and war.  We are not going back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So, a democracy that protects minorities is NOT mob rule?  I think not.  The majority will still vote themselves whatever it is they want.  Is that not mob rule?

A constitutional representative republic is far better than a democracy with minority protections.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 3, 2012)

You are not a 14 year-old girl, so stop with the silly questions.

Democracy is not mob rule.  Your statement by itself does not make it so.

You are entitled to your unsupported belief.


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## gipper (Sep 3, 2012)

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

You stated you want a democracy with minority rights protected.  This is foolishness.  

First, I do not want special rights for minorities or anyone.  You may see society along the lines of race, gender, etc....I do not.  All Americans should have the SAME rights no matter their race, gender, etc.  In a properly constructed representative constitutional republic, as is the one I proclaim, all are protected and ALL have the SAME rights.  

In your silly governmental structure, if the majority (including minorities) want something, they will get it because a democracy grants the wishes of the majority...see how foolish your thinking is?  In a democracy, even one with minority protections, the majority rules as long as those special protections granted minorities is not infringed.  Not a good way to run a government.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 3, 2012)

My thoughtful ncomments were consistent in correcting your online behavior.

Your statement above is inaccurate.  We are a democratic constitutional republic in which its constitution protects minority rights.

You have offered nothing to contradict the above.

We are not going back to pre-1861, gipper.


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## Moonglow (Sep 3, 2012)

gipper said:


> Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
> 
> You stated you want a democracy with minority rights protected.  This is foolishness.
> 
> ...



like the right to vote before minorities had special rights, or say a job, or say an education, or say the right to be where the majority dines, or not to be enslaved?


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## Moonglow (Sep 3, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Hitler was no liberal, gheesh, rewriting history as you go?
> ...



Hitler had the church, and had a religion, he also had private business compared to a socialists nationalization of industry, bankers financed the war and the build up. How was he a socialist? And as far as Moa and Stalin, I never stated that they were never communist, which is not a socialists.


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## gipper (Sep 3, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> My thoughtful ncomments were consistent in correcting your online behavior.
> 
> Your statement above is inaccurate.  We are a democratic constitutional republic in which its constitution protects minority rights.
> 
> ...



I thought this was a debate.  You have offered nothing to dispute my position regarding your silly belief in democracy with minority protections.  

I have not advocated a return to pre-1861. You claiming I have is an absurd strawman tactic.  And, you claim America is a democratic constitutional republic.  I disagree, but what does your opinion of the American system of government have to do with our debating your belief that a democracy with minority protections is the best system of government?  

You are for mob rule and I am for liberty for all.  Right?


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 3, 2012)

Where is this a debate?  I corrected the misuse of terms and definitions.  My concept of democracy with minority protections dominates any suggestion of yours.

gipper, it is what is.



gipper said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > My thoughtful ncomments were consistent in correcting your online behavior.
> ...


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## regent (Sep 3, 2012)

Was Hitler that good a speaker and liar that he can still convince conservative Americans that he was a socialist? Can we blame the German people for falling for Hitler's words when some Americans are still using his words to prove a point? Is it possible that Hitler was a liar and used words to mislead?


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 3, 2012)

Any American who believes Hitler was a socialist is either mentally feeble, woefully ignorant, malignantly motivated, or any or all three.


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## gipper (Sep 12, 2012)

To those who foolishly think democracy effective, Ron Paul destroys you in his column today.  

Please read and learn from your mistakes.



> *A Republic, Not a Democracy*
> By Ron Paul
> Last week marked the conclusion of the grand taxpayer funded spectacles known as the national party conventions. It is perhaps very telling that while $18 million in tax dollars was granted to each party for these lavish ordeals, an additional $50 million each was needed for security in anticipation of the inevitable protests at each event. This amounts to a total of $136 million in taxpayer funds for strictly partisan activities &#8211; a drop in the bucket relative to our disastrous fiscal situation, but disgraceful nonetheless. Parties should fund their own parties, not the taxpayer.
> 
> ...


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Democracy, with minority protections, is the best of all poor human governments.

Tis what tis.


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## gipper (Sep 12, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Democracy, with minority protections, is the best of all poor human governments.
> 
> Tis what tis.



You have the ostrich effect.  Too bad...for you.


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Too bad . . . for you.  Libertarianism is nothing more than flip side of communism, and will be as evil.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 12, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Any American who believes Hitler was a socialist is either mentally feeble, woefully ignorant, malignantly motivated, or any or all three.



actually, dear, Hitler was a National Socialist!!!!

See why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow??

Hitler was a National Socialist!! What more do you want? Barry had two communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders, an open socialist.

Hitler Stalin  Mao and to a lessor extent FDR LBJ were the great 20th Century liberals who got their way. So far Barry is not getting his way but we know his record and we know the government is never big enough for him.


&#8220;We are socialists, we are enemies of today&#8217;s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.&#8221; ~ Adolf Hitler, May 1st, 1927 

On one occassion during WW2 Hitler even declared" basicially National Socialism and Marxism are the same" - Page 220 "Property and Freedom",Richard Pipes,Harvard University


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Yup, Adolph, who used everybody, including Edward, never used the socialists in the party.  Edward, you fucked up on Jefferson, you fucked up on conservatism, you accepted the ten thousand dollar bets and lost and welshed, and little one, you fucked up on this.

One, Hitler had the socialist leadership, which was homosexual, like you, murdered in the Night of Long Knives, almost two thousand dead.  End fo the socialists in the party.

Two, Hitler killed and or interned socialists and communists, every one he could find.

Three, Hiter kissed capitalist ass, and the capitalists and corporatist supported him big time.

Four, Hitler nationalized NO industry in Germany.

Conclusions: (1) you are an idiot, (2) Hitler used the socialist and then killed them, and (3) you can go ahead and send your $10,000 to me via the Board management.



EdwardBaiamonte said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Any American who believes Hitler was a socialist is either mentally feeble, woefully ignorant, malignantly motivated, or any or all three.
> ...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Sep 12, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Yup, Adolph, who used everybody, including Edward, never used the socialists in the party.  Edward, you fucked up on Jefferson, you fucked up on conservatism, you accepted the ten thousand dollar bets and lost and welshed, and little one, you fucked up on this.
> 
> One, Hitler had the socialist leadership, which was homosexual, like you, murdered in the Night of Long Knives, almost two thousand dead.  End fo the socialists in the party.
> 
> ...



can you tell us why our liberals spied for Stalin and not Hitler?

can you tell us why Jefferson gave us freedom from all big liberal governments?


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## JakeStarkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Can you tell us why conservatives spied for Hitler?

Can you tell us why the Liberal, Jefferson, violated the Constitution as Vice-President, accepting the South Carolina electoral votes of 1800 when they were improper form, and why he approved the Louisiana Territory in violation yet again of the Constitution?

Thank you for admitting that failed with Hiter and ineffective socialist argument.


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## Marhaba (Oct 14, 2012)

That history really repeats itself. Always.


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## edthecynic (Oct 14, 2012)

Marhaba said:


> That history really repeats itself. Always.


If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must Man be of learning from experience.
- George Bernard Shaw


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 14, 2012)

Edward's affirmative silence indicates that he agrees he has lost, yet again.



JakeStarkey said:


> Can you tell us why conservatives spied for Hitler?
> 
> Can you tell us why the Liberal, Jefferson, violated the Constitution as Vice-President, accepting the South Carolina electoral votes of 1800 when they were improper form, and why he approved the Louisiana Territory in violation yet again of the Constitution?
> 
> Thank you for admitting that failed with Hiter and ineffective socialist argument.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 14, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Can you tell us why conservatives spied for Hitler?



too stupid!! Conservatives are for small government while Hitler was for totalitarian government




JakeStarkey said:


> Can you tell us why the Liberal, Jefferson, violated the Constitution as Vice-President, accepting the South Carolina electoral votes of 1800 when they were improper form,



gibberish and hardly important as to the value of Jefferson's central philosophy of freedom from liberal government





JakeStarkey said:


> and why he approved the Louisiana Territory in violation yet again of the Constitution?


I see no violation and even if there was  its hardly important as to the value of Jefferson's central philosophy of freedom from liberal government.

Go play basketball Jack






Thank you for admitting that failed with Hiter and ineffective socialist argument.[/quote][/QUOTE]


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 14, 2012)

Edward lost yet again.  The facts are these:

The conservative corporatists supported Hitler.

The great conservative Jefferson violated the Constitution by improperly accepting the SC electoral votes and improperly purchased Louisiana.  EB, show us where in the Constitution the delegated authority is given to the national government to purchase territorial property from another government.

I love smacking you around and down as you end up revealed as a stupid far right doosh.


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## regent (Oct 14, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Jefferson was in France during the writing of the Constitution but I guess he tweeted a lot with Madison.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 15, 2012)

regent said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



too stupid!! but perfectly liberal!! Jefferson wrote the Declaration, mentored Madison who wrote the Constitution, and confirmed the Constitution in what he called the Second American Revolution!!

See why we are positive a liberal will be slow??


"The revolution of 1800... was as real a revolution in the principles of our government as that of 1776 was in its form; not effected indeed by the sword, as that, but by the rational and peaceable instrument of reform, the suffrage of the people." --Thomas Jefferson to Spencer Roane, 1819. ME 15:212


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 15, 2012)

Jefferson did not like the Constitution because it granted the government too much power.

He went crazy when Chief Justice Marshall kicked Jefferson's ass with _Marbury v. Madison_.

EB, are you simply ignorant, or an outright liar about this stuff?

You have never written an OP on Jefferson that was not torn apart by historical application.

You are a moron.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 15, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson did not like the Constitution because it granted the government too much power.



Yes he was very very conservative even then when the government was tiny!! That is why he formed the Republican Party in 1792.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."-Jefferson




JakeStarkey said:


> He went crazy when Chief Justice Marshall kicked Jefferson's ass with _Marbury v. Madison_.



yes he did and all agree without question????????????????????????? although it is interesting to note that it did not become an important case till 100 years later according to Reinquist who thought it was the most important case ever. Of course I'm sure you have no idea why you brought it up or what your point is



JakeStarkey said:


> EB, are you simply ignorant, or an outright liar about this stuff?



of course if true you would not be so afraid to explain exactly why for the whole world to see. What does your fear tell you??



JakeStarkey said:


> You have never written an OP on Jefferson that was not torn apart by historical application.
> 
> You are a moron.



of course if so you would not be so afraid  to present your best example for the whole world to see. What does your fear tell you??


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 15, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Can you tell us why conservatives spied for Hitler?
> ...


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Jefferson went big government and bought territory from another nation.

Anybody want to tell me where he had that power in the Constitution?

Jefferson showed his lack of character, when as VP he accepted the SC electoral votes that were clearly not in the style according to the Constitution.

Jefferson was a power mad president who had no respect for the Constitution.

Edward constantly reveals here that his OP has gone bust.


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## gipper (Oct 16, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Go play basketball Jack



He doesn't PLAY basketball...he watches it on TV (in between playing teenage video games), while drinking cheap skunky beer and eating lots of cheetos.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Watching libertarian and extremist right fools act like they have a clue about history is entertaining.

TJ would piss on EB and the Gypper.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson went big government and bought territory from another nation.




too completely stupid!! big government and big country are not the same Jack!!!



JakeStarkey said:


> Anybody want to tell me where he had that power in the Constitution?



it was not in the Constitution nor contemplated by the Founders so all the branches of government winged it when they saw a once in a millennium opportunity. It of course has nothing to do with the rectitude of his  freedom philosophy. In fact, Jefferson saw it as a way for  more people to be more distant from the federal government. Sorry jack!! 




JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson showed his lack of character, when as VP he accepted the SC electoral votes that were clearly not in the style according to the Constitution.



don't really care about his character, just his philosophy, especially 200 years later Jack!! See why we say stupid??




JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson was a power mad president who had no respect for the Constitution.



gee and you clean forgot to give your best example. I wonder what that tells us about IQ and character of the liberal.




JakeStarkey said:


> Edward constantly reveals here that his OP has gone bust.


gee and you clean forgot to give your best example of going bust. I wonder what that tells us about IQ and character of the liberal.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

EB is a stupid 11 year old, I swear.

Big Government Jefferson broke the Constitution and bought the LA purchase: end of story, munchkin.

Character informs philosophy, munchkin, and Jefferson's was broken.

OP fail.  Hey, I will bet you $10,000 that I will prove you a fool all through this thread.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Big Government Jefferson broke the Constitution and bought the LA purchase: end of story, munchkin.



1) entire world would do it again. What kind of ass would still be arguing against it 200 years later??

2) why blame Jefferson when entire government was involved anyway.

3) its 100% irrelevent anyway since it has nothing whatsoever to do with the philosophy of freedom he gifted to us. IF he was a hypocrite, so what ?? So is the guy who preaches against smoking while doing 3 packs a day.

Go play basketball Jack, these arguments are too subtle for a liberal to understand


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

The same ass who is arguing that Jefferson was some kind of modern day Republican.

Jefferson was president, Munchkin.

Jefferson's freedom was for whites to own blacks and to have children on slave women.

You have no idea at all about American history or our national narrative.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The same ass who is arguing that Jefferson was some kind of modern day Republican.



Jefferson formed  the Republican Party in 1792 and started what he called the Second American Revolution. It was a revolution for freedom from all government, not just the government of England.

Modern Republicans stand for the exact same thing while modern Democrats stand for exactly the opposite of these founding principles which explains why they spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb.





JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson was president, Munchkin.



$10,000 if I disagreed?? Bet or run away??



JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson's freedom was for whites to own blacks and to have children on slave women.



that is called presentism. The whole world had slaves then dear. See why we say a liberal will be stupid??




JakeStarkey said:


> You have no idea at all about American history or our national narrative.



Sure I do, Republicans stand for freedom, Democrats spied for Stalin, and Barry voted to the left of Bernie Sanders.

What more do you want to know Jake???


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

The presentism is on you, little one.  You are the one who wants to bring the prick forward to the 21st century.

The modern day Republican Party was formed in 1854, while Jefferson's party became the Democratic Party under Jackson.  Don't you know anything?

Jefferson and his buddies owned slaves, the Democrats that followed him own slaves, then the Democrats in the South practiced Jim Crow, then the Democrats did the right thing, and now the GOP oppresses blacks.

You are too stupid. 

When you chop up "Jefferson was president, Munchkin," and follow it with "$10,000 if I disagreed?? Bet or run away??", I will tell you I will report you the next time you do that.  Against the rules, munchkin.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Oct 16, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The presentism is on you, little one.  You are the one who wants to bring the prick forward to the 21st century.



dear, presentism is when you judge people in history by modern standards. See why we say stupid??



JakeStarkey said:


> The modern day Republican Party was formed in 1854, while Jefferson's party became the Democratic Party under Jackson.  Don't you know anything?



too stupid as usual !!!! we were talking about Jefferson's Republican Party, the precursor to the later Republican Party  




JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson and his buddies owned slaves,



too stupid, the whole world owned slaves!!!! See why we say stupid??? 



JakeStarkey said:


> and now the GOP oppresses blacks.



too stupid the Great Society and war on poverty that amounted to a near genocide against blacks started with LBJ and continues to today thanks to Democrats.




JakeStarkey said:


> When you chop up "Jefferson was president, Munchkin," and follow it with "$10,000 if I disagreed?? Bet or run away??", I will tell you I will report you the next time you do that.  Against the rules, munchkin.



too stupid!! You said Jefferson was president. I said if i disagreed i'll pay you 10,000. Bet?. You did not bet because you knew you mispoke out of an IQ formed on the basketball court.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

But you, Edward, are using 'presentism' of today's standards to say that Jefferson was superior.

Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party (which you mistakenly call the Republican Party) was the precursor to the Democratic Party under Jackson.  Once again, "The modern day Republican Party was formed in 1854, while Jefferson's party became the Democratic Party under Jackson. Don't you know anything?"  You are too stupid.

Let's put your "too stupid, the whole world owned slaves!!!! See why we say stupid???" in perspective with the proper post, "Jefferson and his buddies owned slaves, the Democrats that followed him own slaves, then the Democrats in the South practiced Jim Crow, then the Democrats did the right thing, and now the GOP oppresses blacks."  Owning slaves equals bad, Edward.

"The Great Society and war on poverty that amounted to a near genocide against blacks started with LBJ and continues to today thanks to Democrats" is a completely unsupportable opinion.  But you can try with evidence, if you wish.  And if you don't, you fail.  But I will educate you.  Because of the GS, poverty in America fell from 28% to 16% in five years.  You are too stupid.  Look it up.

Thank you for reporting correctly, Munchkin, so I will not report you.  But you can now send me my $10,000 for your fail.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 16, 2012)

Edward does not answer, but the doctrine of affirmative silence, he admits fail.

Unsubscribe.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 5, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> But you, Edward, are using 'presentism' of today's standards to say that Jefferson was superior.



Jefferson created the greatest country in human history by far, a veritable empire of liberty,  so if any human is or was superior it would be have to be Jefferson.




JakeStarkey said:


> Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party (which you mistakenly call the Republican Party)



of course I've offered 12 times to bet you $10,000 that there is no primary source from the 18th Century( even though all sources survive) to support your position that it was called Democratic -Republican. 





JakeStarkey said:


> "The modern day Republican Party was formed in 1854,



of course its true that the modern Republican Party was formed in 1854, based on the Jefferson's Party by the way,  just as it's also true that Jefferson and Madison formed the less modern Republican Party in 1793. 




JakeStarkey said:


> "Jefferson and his buddies owned slaves, the Democrats that followed him own slaves, then the Democrats in the South practiced Jim Crow, then the Democrats did the right thing,



 You mean the Great Society near genocide was the right liberal thing?????




JakeStarkey said:


> and now the GOP oppresses blacks."



utter liberal insanity and stupidity given that liberal policies almost instantly but most young black men in jail and destroyed the  black family!!.  There are more in liberal jails today than there were slaves in 1860!!  




JakeStarkey said:


> Owning slaves equals bad, Edward.



only by todays standards; it was considered normal  during 99% of human history!! Over your head, Jack???




JakeStarkey said:


> Because of the GS, poverty in America fell from 28% to 16% in five years.  You are too stupid.  Look it up.



Jack dear, no one doubts that giving people welfare entitlements  reduces poverty. In fact, it could be reduced to 0% tomorrow with the 100% idiotic liberal prescription!! The question is, at what cost to givers and recipients. Is cultural genocide so perfectly liberal. The liberal's rapid revolutionary change here was just as rapid as Hitler Stalin and Mao's revolutionary change there. 

Thomas Sowell :
"the black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and discrimination, began rapidly disintegrating in the liberal welfare state that subsidized unwed pregnancy and changed welfare from an emergency rescue to a way of life."

"We could survive slavery, we could survive Jim Crow, but we could not survive liberalism- Walter Williams

Even in the antebellum era, when slaves often weren&#8217;t permitted to wed, most black children lived with a biological mother and father. During Reconstruction and up until the 1940s, 75% to 85% of black children lived in two-parent families. Today, more than 70% of black children are born to single women. &#8220;The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn&#8217;t do, what Jim Crow couldn&#8217;t do, what the harshest racism couldn&#8217;t do,&#8221; Mr. Williams says. &#8220;And that is to destroy the black family

See why we are 100% positive a liberal will be slow, so ver very slow!!


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 6, 2012)

EdwardBaimonted just underminded everything he says he believes.

I encourage everyone to read his latest.


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## rightwinger (Nov 6, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Simple, that history changed after millions of years when Jefferson discovered that freedom from liberal government was the missing element that had held humanity back for millions of years!!



Millions of years of liberal government?

What do you think monarchys are? A Monarchy is by definition a political system where the labor of the masses goes to support the 1 percent.

That is what our country rebelled against. It was Jefferson who helped establish a system of liberal government where the rights of "We the people" were protected over the rights of the privleged few


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 7, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> What do you think monarchys are?



Merely one of the big liberal central government schemes that our founders insured us against with the Constitution.

Do you know why our liberals spied for Stalin, and why Obama, our greatest liberal, had two communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders??















A Monarchy is by definition a political system where the labor of the masses goes to support the 1 percent.

That is what our country rebelled against. It was Jefferson who helped establish a system of liberal government where the rights of "We the people" were protected over the rights of the privleged few[/QUOTE]


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## rightwinger (Nov 7, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think monarchys are?
> ...


[/QUOTE]

You fail to answer the question. Which pre 1776 governments do you consider liberal?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 7, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> You fail to answer the question. Which pre 1776 governments do you consider liberal?



Jefferson considered them all liberal because they all( with very few exceptions throughout hisitory) featured big central governments.

Welcome to your very first lesson in American History!!

"My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government." Jefferson


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 7, 2012)

Liberalism is "big government", to Edward.  Too Stupid.


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## sparky (Nov 7, 2012)

nobody learns sqaut from history

because it's always some _version_ of history

the famous quote would better read _"those who don't know history are doomed to revisionists"_




get over it

~S~


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 7, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> Liberalism is "big government", to Edward.  Too Stupid.




"My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government." Jefferson


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## rightwinger (Nov 7, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > You fail to answer the question. Which pre 1776 governments do you consider liberal?
> ...



They were as conservative as they come. An all powerful monarch demanding that the masses support them. No individual rights, a strictly enforced class system and no upward mobility


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 7, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



too perfectly stupid and 100% liberal!! Conservative Republicans and libertarians like Jefferson want lower taxes and less government- the exact opposite of monarchy-while Barry wants higher taxes and more and more monarchial Obamacare government! You have the quote above but apparently lack the IQ to understand it.


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## 4Horsemen (Nov 8, 2012)

*What is there to learn from history? *


It was bloody and the way of the gun ruled the land.


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## rightwinger (Nov 8, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > EdwardBaiamonte said:
> ...



Post 1776, America had no choice but less government. The country had immense post war debt and little production capabilities.


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## 4Horsemen (Nov 8, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




And that choice was a good one, one in which we should've stayed the course on. 

Politicians got greedy when they saw all the money the FED and CFR were passing out freely..with a catch


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 8, 2012)

No, it wasn't.  That's why Hamilton got Jefferson and Madison to agree on big government funding, assumption, and the central bank, in return for George "Executive Order" Washington to have his national capitol across the Potomac from his slave-owning lands.

TooStupidEdward can't even get basic American history right.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 8, 2012)

4Horsemen said:


> *What is there to learn from history? *
> 
> 
> It was bloody and the way of the gun ruled the land.



or as the kid in "The History Boys" said, "History is just one fuckin thing after another".


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 8, 2012)

4Horsemen said:


> *What is there to learn from history? *
> 
> 
> It was bloody and the way of the gun ruled the land.



Yes, the last century was the bloodiest ever by far killing more than all other wars combined; yet the liberals always want to cut our defense budget. Go figure.


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## freedombecki (Nov 9, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...


Yes he was, and here's proof: he promised the German people something for nothing, wanted to please his foreigner oil buddies in the Middle East who could provide petrol for his tanks to take over Europe. Their price was to cause him to blame Jews for the world's woes and kill all the Jews in Europe and steal their wealth to support his war machine and takeover of Europe.

Now we have Obama, the socialist, who went to a church that preached God damn America for 20 years, Obama promises something for nothing to his tribe of liberal voters; and Obama is harsh on the Jewish state and easy on their enemies who are developing enough explosives to jihad the whole world starting with Israel with the plan to steal all they have built since 1948 when the survivors of the Holocaust, a 6,000,000-Jew bloodbath, didn't want to stay in hateful Europe to go through all that again in the next generation. Obama has snubbed America's allies to please his Muslim Bros under Louis Farrakhan and snubbed Israel to please the Muslim brotherhood that murdered Gaddafi for him and finger bin Laden.

His friends' price for helping Obama will be the same thing they outlined to Hitler: extermination of Jews.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


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## Votto (Nov 9, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> As a Democrat, Jefferson valued liberty and freedom
> 
> Values Democrats still value



Jefferson opposed the Federalists who wished to centralize power in Washington.  He is the polar opposite of what the Democrat party represents today.


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## uscitizen (Nov 9, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > What is there to learn from history?
> ...



Yep Lincoln initially only made slavery illegal in southern states.


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## uscitizen (Nov 9, 2012)

Votto said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > As a Democrat, Jefferson valued liberty and freedom
> ...


And most cnservative types back then supported England keeping control.

Yep things change.


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## LibertyLemming (Nov 9, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> As a Democrat, Jefferson valued liberty and freedom
> 
> Values Democrats still value




Hahahahaahahahahaahaha. This is literally the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. I will think about this and laugh in the near future.


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## LibertyLemming (Nov 9, 2012)

Also I wish we still had Federalist and Anti-federalist parties instead of federalist and really federalist


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



too stupid !! using todays definitions, conservatives or classical liberals were for limited central government!!


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 10, 2012)

He owned slaves, freeing only his five children after his death.  He did not free his slave paramour, the half-sister of his dead wife.



Votto said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > As a Democrat, Jefferson valued liberty and freedom
> ...


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 10, 2012)

Votto said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > As a Democrat, Jefferson valued liberty and freedom
> ...



you are dead on!! Also, if rightwinger can show Jefferson as a Democrat in the 18th Century based on a primary source I will pay him $10,000. He has refused to take the bet 18 times.


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## rdean (Nov 10, 2012)

Conservatives don't believe in "millions" of years.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 10, 2012)

You have already lost the best three times and refused to pay up, TooStupidEdward.

I don't a true classical liberal like George Washington would piss on you if you were on fire: he perhaps would permit his slave to have done so.



EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


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## LibertyLemming (Nov 10, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> You have already lost the best three times and refused to pay up, TooStupidEdward.
> 
> I don't a true classical liberal like George Washington would piss on you if you were on fire: he perhaps would permit his slave to have done so.
> 
> ...



Let's pretend that Washington and Jefferson were "liberals", do you contend that the modern day liberal/democrat is instituting the same kind of policy that they did?


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 10, 2012)

Of course not and neither is the far right libertarian.

Stay balanced, LL.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 11, 2012)

LibertyLemming said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > You have already lost the best three times and refused to pay up, TooStupidEdward.
> ...



yes, but Jefferson and Washington are considered heros so liberals like to claim them even when they stood for very very limited government.

If liberals have no connection to our founders they have no connection to American values, which explains why they spied for Stalin, or was it Hitler?


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## LibertyLemming (Nov 11, 2012)

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> LibertyLemming said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Certainly explains why the sheep overwhelmingly elect a guy who assassinates his own citizens without due process among countless Constitutional violations.


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## JakeStarkey (Nov 11, 2012)

So LL is the Charles Lindbergh, the nazi, today.  You two are loons.


LibertyLemming said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > LibertyLemming said:
> ...


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## regent (Nov 11, 2012)

In due time we seem to learn a personal practical history, i.e. don't touch a hot stove, but political history seems to be always in question, despite the fact that most history books are political. The social sciences are the soft sciences because unquestioned answers are hard to arrive at.


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 12, 2012)

LibertyLemming said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> > LibertyLemming said:
> ...



what??


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Jan 22, 2013)

LibertyLemming said:


> Let's pretend that Washington and Jefferson were "liberals", do you contend that the modern day liberal/democrat is instituting the same kind of policy that they did?



good point!! Washington and Jefferson were for a very tiny government by todays standards or by any standards in the world, yet liberals who are for constantly growing government seem to imagine they have a place at the American Founding.

Maybe they mean in dress style or something?


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## JakeStarkey (Jan 22, 2013)

Good heavens, playing around with you, Edward, is like shooting piglets in the trough.

Washington happily supported Hamilton's big government actions on (1) the debt and assumption funding plans in return for (2) getting the national capitol across the Potomac from Mt. Vernon, (3) suppressing the Whiskey Rebellion with 13000 troops, and (4) the 1st US national bank.


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