# It just passed



## Xenophon (Mar 21, 2010)

saw it live


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## WillowTree (Mar 21, 2010)

sucks donut? 

sad day for America. really sad. get ready for big gov. intrusion on your lives and freedom..


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 21, 2010)

Time to start the tough battles in the courts.


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## Xenophon (Mar 21, 2010)

219-212


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## blu (Mar 21, 2010)

my noobishness in congressional procedure  has really shown through today. I have been watching live on cnn.com for the last couple hours, but still don't really get how it all ties together. is it a done deal now just waiting on obama's signature? I am looking at the 219 o 212 vote, what exactly was that for?


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## Yurt (Mar 21, 2010)

hopefully they make this a positive new government bureaucracy, unlike medicare...unfortunately, we have YEARS to wait to see what good it does, as it doesn't take affect for YEARS


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## Mr.Fitnah (Mar 21, 2010)

This is what you get when  you fail to educate and indoctrinate  instead.


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## Si modo (Mar 21, 2010)

Batten down the hatches.


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## uscitizen (Mar 21, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> This is what you get when  you fail to educate and indoctrinate  instead.



Fox?


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## Xenophon (Mar 21, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> This is what you get when  you fail to educate and indoctrinate  instead.



No, its more about aparchiks and party loyalty then anything else.


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## Darkwind (Mar 21, 2010)

A lot of poor people were just made poorer.  

Now we challenge in court AND we file criminal charges against them when they are removed from office.


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## ScreamingEagle (Mar 21, 2010)

welcome to the USSA...


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## Si modo (Mar 21, 2010)

Xenophon said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> > This is what you get when  you fail to educate and indoctrinate  instead.
> ...


I disagree.  Anyone who thinks there is much constitutional about this at all, certainly has had no education in how our system works.  They are useful idiots, though.


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## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2010)

YES!!!!!!!!!

I knew it!!!











Now its time to get to work on the public option.


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## Modbert (Mar 21, 2010)

Darkwind said:


> A lot of poor people were just made poorer.
> 
> *Now we challenge in court AND we file criminal charges against them when they are removed from office.*



George W. Bush and Dick Cheney? Oh I'm sorry, you sounded just like a truther there for a minute. 

Seriously though, criminal charges and remove them from offices?


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## Xenophon (Mar 21, 2010)

The war is on now, the Dems had a chance to do the right thing, they choose 'be a party aparchik at the expense of americans'.

Bad move.


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

MarcATL said:


> YES!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I knew it!!!
> 
> ...



you've never KNOWN anything, shit-for-brains.


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## Si modo (Mar 21, 2010)

Xenophon said:


> The war is on now, the Dems had a chance to do the right thing, they choose 'be a party aparchik at the expense of americans'.
> 
> Bad move.


Yup.


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## EriktheRed (Mar 21, 2010)




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## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

Darkwind said:


> A lot of poor people were just made poorer.
> 
> Now we challenge in court AND we file criminal charges against them when they are removed from office.



Well, they won't be "poorer" b/c they'll get handouts, not having to pay anything. BUT, they were made even more dependent on gov't now. Which means they will REMAIN poor, which is the point of liberalism. 

So now OUR poor have:

Free gov't education
Free gov't housing
Free gov't food
Free gov't healthcare
Free gov't transportation

Why even work?


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## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2010)

elvis said:


> you've never KNOWN anything, shit-for-brains.



I KNEW you mudda suckas would LOSE dis one asswipe!!


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

blu said:


> my noobishness in congressional procedure  has really shown through today. I have been watching live on cnn.com for the last couple hours, but still don't really get how it all ties together. is it a done deal now just waiting on obama's signature? I am looking at the 219 o 212 vote, what exactly was that for?



No. The 219-212 vote was for passage of the bill. Now the GOP can, if they haven't already, move to send the bill back to committee. The bill doesn't actually go to the President until Congress is recessed. I'm sure the GOP is whipping Blue dogs over for their motion. I don't have it on, but I imagine there is a debate for the motion going on right now. This a stall tactic to whip votes.


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## jillian (Mar 21, 2010)

Darkwind said:


> A lot of poor people were just made poorer.
> 
> Now we challenge in court AND we file criminal charges against them when they are removed from office.



you will lose in court.

and what criminal charges?

i hate lunatic assertions like that. Absurd


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

Xenophon said:


> The war is on now, the Dems had a chance to do the right thing, they choose 'be a party aparchik at the expense of americans'.
> 
> Bad move.



Tom Delay hates it, so I love it.  The GOP hates it, so it must be good.  

The bad move would have been to not get er done.  Now the Dems know how to get it done with a minority party that just says no.  

You guys apposed social security and medicare too.  You'll get over it.  

And Haraldo explained to Tom Delay how this is not unconstitutional.  They have the right to deal with commerce.  20% of our GDP constitutes commerce.  

Corporations need to be put back into check.  Monopolies like bankers, wallstreet, home lenders, oil companies, energy companies, water, 

And bring jobs back home.

And tax the rich more like we did before GW bush.

Next stop, reconsiliation.


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## EriktheRed (Mar 21, 2010)

Darkwind said:


> A lot of poor people were just made poorer.
> 
> Now we challenge in court AND we file criminal charges against them when they are removed from office.



Ah, sweet...


Bitterness mixed with just a hint of hysteria...


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## Dante (Mar 21, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> Time to start the tough battles in the courts.



yeah, lost the election so it's time to call in them good old, conservative, activist judges again, eh?


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## Oscar Wao (Mar 21, 2010)

This is the end of the beginning.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

jillian said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of poor people were just made poorer.
> ...



The GOP is trying last ditch efforts to have a recount.  I never watch Fox but I'm watching it now because its fun watching them cry about this bill.  

The Dems are finally doing what we elected them to do.  Not enough, but better than the GOP.


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## blu (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> > my noobishness in congressional procedure  has really shown through today. I have been watching live on cnn.com for the last couple hours, but still don't really get how it all ties together. is it a done deal now just waiting on obama's signature? I am looking at the 219 o 212 vote, what exactly was that for?
> ...



wow that is good analysis. they are doing something now about the abortion part.


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## MarcATL (Mar 21, 2010)

Neo-Cons...would you now fight for the American people?

Will you now fight for Universal Healthcare?

Fight for the Public Option?

Its the only way to go.

What say you?


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## Si modo (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> > The war is on now, the Dems had a chance to do the right thing, they choose 'be a party aparchik at the expense of americans'.
> ...


After seeing this, I think the previous post about education has some merit.


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## Dante (Mar 21, 2010)

Mr.Fitnah said:


> This is what you get when  you fail to educate and indoctrinate  instead.


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Has the GOP moved to amend the language of the bill yet? If they have, then it is over.


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## Si modo (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Has the GOP moved to amend the language of the bill yet? If they have, then it is over.


I'm still waiting for it.  Unless it happened when I went to get a soda out of the fridge.


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## Dante (Mar 21, 2010)

ScreamingEagle said:


> welcome to the USSA...



changing your scream name to Screaming Chicken, would be truth in advertising.


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## blu (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Has the GOP moved to amend the language of the bill yet? If they have, then it is over.



if you aren't watching it because you don't have TV, cnn has it live here, thats where im watching it:

CNN.com Live


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## Modbert (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Has the GOP moved to amend the language of the bill yet? If they have, then it is over.



Right now they're voting on the motion to recommit with instructions. No is winning at the moment.


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 21, 2010)

MarcATL said:


> Neo-Cons...would you now fight for the American people?
> 
> Will you now fight for Universal Healthcare?
> 
> ...



Fuck your Universal Socialist health care.


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

blu said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Has the GOP moved to amend the language of the bill yet? If they have, then it is over.
> ...



I have a TV. It is tuned to Madhouse. I pretty well know the battle plan. The 219-212 vote tells me that the GOP can't whip the votes it needs to derail this thing. It is going to the Oval Office.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

Oscar Wao said:


> This is the end of the beginning.



It already was.  This is like when Obama won and the GOP said that he would ruin the economy.  News flash, the GOP already ruined the economy.

And under them, the Healthcare companies gouged us, just like the Oil companies did when they went up to $4 a gallon.  But you don't know that???

In 10 years, 50% of us would not be able to afford healthcare if the Dems didn't reign them in.  Do you really think you'd fall on the side of the insured?  Ha!  Well consider that there are a lot more of us than there are you, which is why the Dems are working for the masses, not the corporations.  You call it socialism?  Of course you do.  

Government should look out for the masses, and thats not socialism.


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## Big Black Dog (Mar 21, 2010)

Well.  We've been fucked.  Now maybe they'll take us out to supper.  This is what happens when you agree to a blind date.


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Has the GOP moved to amend the language of the bill yet? If they have, then it is over.
> ...



Then Game Over.


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 21, 2010)

Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?


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## Modbert (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Then Game Over.



Game over in what way do you mean?


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## Political Junky (Mar 21, 2010)

Watch Obama's poll numbers skyrocket, along with those of the Democratic Congress.


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

MarcATL said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > you've never KNOWN anything, shit-for-brains.
> ...



Oh I see.  Ebonics must be a pre-requisite for English at your school.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > Neo-Cons...would you now fight for the American people?
> ...



Fuck paying 10 times what it is worth so 10 CEO's can all buy Yachts.  Are you a CEO?  Then you are a fool.  You like your healthcare?  Just wait a year or two and see if you still like it if we did nothing.  Chances are you would be paying twice as much.  

Look how long you, McCain and the GOP took to realize the economy was crashing.  Remember it was crashing and McCain and the rest of you said things were fine?  You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.  How many times do we need to prove you guys wrong?


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Then Game Over.
> ...



Meaning the GOP loses and the Dems win. This thing is going to the President.


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> Oscar Wao said:
> 
> 
> > This is the end of the beginning.
> ...



You haven't seen gouging yet, this bill does nothing to lower insurance costs or health care costs.


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

WillowTree said:


> sucks donut?
> 
> sad day for America. really sad. get ready for big gov. intrusion on your lives and freedom..



No salt for you
No butter for you
No soda for you

It's bad for you...don'tcha know.....


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## Modbert (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Meaning the GOP loses and the Dems win. This thing is going to the President.



Oh, yeah.

Next is the last vote, which will pass. Bart didn't falter.


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?



Neither does Advantage. Seniors will be screwed as well.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?



Go back to asking questions you can understand, like "how many pages is this bill?"!!!


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?
> ...



That's why AARP stopped advertising their Advantage plan 5 months ago. They already made a deal with the Dems.


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?
> ...



The Irony whore just slapped the shit out of you.


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## Xenophon (Mar 21, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Meaning the GOP loses and the Dems win. This thing is going to the President.
> ...


He never was going too.

All of that was theatre for the rubes, when it came down to yes/no, he wasn't going to be the guy that ended the barry dream.


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?
> ...



Understand this.



Fuck off!


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

Xenophon said:


> Dogbert said:
> 
> 
> > CrimsonWhite said:
> ...



what about the other five?


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Tomorrow, the GOP play will be that there was no transparency. They have a point, but it won't change anything. The Dems better hope it works. Because if t doesn't, then the GOP will clean up in November.


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## Xenophon (Mar 21, 2010)

elvis said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> > Dogbert said:
> ...


Have you ever seen a party aparchik show an ounce of conviction on something like this?

Nancy knew she had it done when she called for the vote friday.


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## Dante (Mar 21, 2010)

Xenophon said:


> saw it live



link to story...
http://www.usmessageboard.com/healthcare-insurance-govt-healthcare/110164-congress-approves-historic-health-care-legislation.html


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > Oscar Wao said:
> ...



You have no idea what this bill does.  Fact is, this bill is a step in the right direction.  Must be because the GOP is against it.  

And the funny thing is, when the Dems finally do address gouging and lowering insurance costs, you and the GOP will be against us on that too.

So this is all we could get by the Dems who are now owned and controlled by the lobbyists.  They must have promised the insurance companies that they would vote against gouging and lowering costs, so we passed what we could.  

So baby steps.  Next step is to address the problems you talked about.  I can't wait.


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

Xenophon said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > Xenophon said:
> ...



well that only makes sense, I guess.


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## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

Hey, fellow right wingers, it's useless to debate these libs. They don't grasp the fact that the Democratic Party just committed suicide. How can they? Remember, these are the same libs who think gov't run healthcare is a great idea. In their own minds, they salivate at government. It's like their crack cocaine. They are addicted to being dependent on government, and are eating this up like they are on a 2 day crack binge.

Enjoy making fun of them, but remember, most of them wouldn't be able to survive without us, the right wing, who pay most of the taxes and protect this country. So be gentle, be kind, they are in a way our children- they are dependents of ours after all. They just don't know any better. And the conservative way of life is always more fruitful than the liberal way, so our lives will always be better than theirs in oh so many ways, so you gotta kinda feel sorry for them. They are fellow countrymen, let them enjoy this little night, since they truly believe it's going to unlock the gates of happiness for them. Just like they thought 01-20-2009 would also.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

elvis said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



I just love beating up Republicans.  You just lost tonight.  Sleep well.


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



the whole country lost, you stupid fuck.  I think I'll neg-rep you for that comment. 

Oh wait.......


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> Hey, fellow right wingers, it's useless to debate these libs. They don't grasp the fact that the Democratic Party just committed suicide. How can they? Remember, these are the same libs who think gov't run healthcare is a great idea. In their own minds, they salivate at government. It's like their crack cocaine. They are addicted to being dependent on government, and are eating this up like they are on a 2 day crack binge.
> 
> Enjoy making fun of them, but remember, most of them wouldn't be able to survive without us, the right wing, who pay most of the taxes and protect this country. So be gentle, be kind, they are in a way our children- they are dependents of ours after all. They just don't know any better. And the conservative way of life is always more fruitful than the liberal way, so our lives will always be better than theirs in oh so many ways, so you gotta kinda feel sorry for them. They are fellow countrymen, let them enjoy this little night, since they truly believe it's going to unlock the gates of happiness for them. Just like they thought 01-20-2009 would also.



This idiot thinks we are so stupid that we believe that it would have been better for the Dems if they didn't pass healthcare.  

Fox and you wish, looser.


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, fellow right wingers, it's useless to debate these libs. They don't grasp the fact that the Democratic Party just committed suicide. How can they? Remember, these are the same libs who think gov't run healthcare is a great idea. In their own minds, they salivate at government. It's like their crack cocaine. They are addicted to being dependent on government, and are eating this up like they are on a 2 day crack binge.
> ...



what the fuck is a looser?


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?



I don't know about you but in my contract lifetime healthcare was promised to me and my family.  They have to come up with something the government approves of or we have grounds for a class action law suit against the government.
I know the bill Pelosi's House passed gave us an exemption...but I think the Senate Bill has fucked over the Nation's entire Veteran's voter block....and we will not remain silent.


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## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

WillowTree said:


> sucks donut?
> 
> sad day for America. really sad. get ready for big gov. intrusion on your lives and freedom..



Sorry, that was the Patriot Act.

Or as it should have been called, the Omnibus Spying Bill.


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

elvis said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



sealybobo is hooked on phonics and ebonics !!!!


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > sucks donut?
> ...



You mean the Act Obama has strengthened and extended?   That Omnibus spying Bill???


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## Yurt (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Tomorrow, the GOP play will be that there was no transparency. They have a point, but it won't change anything. The Dems better hope it works. Because if t doesn't, then the GOP will clean up in November.



it doesn't take effect until 2013 or 2014....

obama and the dems played this smart


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## blu (Mar 21, 2010)

so what exactly is the "fix-it" stuff in the senate? if the gop blocks the fix-its, then the house has to revote?


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## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, fellow right wingers, it's useless to debate these libs. They don't grasp the fact that the Democratic Party just committed suicide. How can they? Remember, these are the same libs who think gov't run healthcare is a great idea. In their own minds, they salivate at government. It's like their crack cocaine. They are addicted to being dependent on government, and are eating this up like they are on a 2 day crack binge.
> ...



HAHAHA!!! I see you did not take advantage of MY tax dollars that fund government education. It is spelled "loser" not "looser".

And I do not believe that. The Democrats are done either way, pass or not. As one Republican put it: "It's like a coin toss. Heads Republicans win. Tails Democrats lose." 

Either way the right will take power in November and hold it for next 10-20 years. And the lazy, jobless liberals really aren't going to benefit much from this bill anyway.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

elvis said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > elvis said:
> ...



No, the whole country lost when the GOP stole the 2000 election in Florida via the US Supreme Court and then when they stole the 2004 election in Ohio via Diebold voting machines.

But you didn't seem to care then.

And then we told you the GOP was going to ruin the economy, and you didn't care or believe.  And then when it happened, you beleived the GOP that said it was the Dems that ruined the economy.  You are a brainwashed idiot.  

The Dems are guilty of not being able to pass the liberal agenda we elected them to pass.  They are guilty of not getting it done.  You should be thrilled that they have let me down.  

But you guys want it both ways.  You want to suggest to moderates that the dems are ruining America and taking the country into socialism.  But the fact is, they haven't got anything done?  But you are too stupid to realize you are talking out of both sides of your assface.


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Yurt said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Tomorrow, the GOP play will be that there was no transparency. They have a point, but it won't change anything. The Dems better hope it works. Because if t doesn't, then the GOP will clean up in November.
> ...



I wasn't talking about the bill itself. They better be ready to play defense, because the RNC will focus on this and they can scare the hell out of people when they are motivated. This bill is a game changer and that majority is no longer safe. Politically, this is a huge gamble. Even before it goes into effect.


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

blu said:


> so what exactly is the "fix-it" stuff in the senate? if the gop blocks the fix-its, then the house has to revote?



The Senate only needs 51 votes for the fix it....Harry Reid has assured the President he has distributed the appropriate bribes for the fix it to pass.


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## elvis (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > CrimsonWhite said:
> ...



do you think the dems care?


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## Modbert (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> I wasn't talking about the bill itself. T*hey better be ready to play defense, because the RNC will focus on this and they can scare the hell out of people when they are motivated.* This bill is a game changer and that majority is no longer safe. Politically, this is a huge gamble. Even before it goes into effect.



You mean continue to scare the hell out of people.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



And then you woke up and changed your panties from the wet dream you had.  

You might pick up some seats.

You might take the house or senate back.  But will you take both?  Doubt it.

And we'll still have Obama in the White House for the next 6 years.


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## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

PatekPhilippe said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have to wonder what does the military do? TRICARE does not qualify under this bill, do we now have to have all the troops and retirees buy addition health insurance?
> ...



Hey military guys, don't worry, us cops have it figured out. This bill violates every citizen's 4th amendment rights to protects against illegal search and seizure of one's person or property. Its that amendment we work under every day, and this bill absolutely violates it. I explain it in detail in my 4th amendment thread on this forum. Check it out. Lawsuit avalanche is coming.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

PatekPhilippe said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> > so what exactly is the "fix-it" stuff in the senate? if the gop blocks the fix-its, then the house has to revote?
> ...



Good to hear.  This bill might even save someone's life.  Someone you know.


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't talking about the bill itself. T*hey better be ready to play defense, because the RNC will focus on this and they can scare the hell out of people when they are motivated.* This bill is a game changer and that majority is no longer safe. Politically, this is a huge gamble. Even before it goes into effect.
> ...



Carefull. The GOP learned everything it knows about scare tactics from the DNC.


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## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > CrimsonWhite said:
> ...



This is no gamble.

Getting rid of "preexisting conditions" and all the other BS the insurance companies have been pulling is not a gamble. This will be as popular as Medicare and Social Security and just as morally right. The richest country in the world should be able to take care of its old and sick.


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## Vel (Mar 21, 2010)

blu said:


> so what exactly is the "fix-it" stuff in the senate? if the gop blocks the fix-its, then the house has to revote?




Nope. It means that we get the senate bill EXACTLY as it was passed in December.


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## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> PatekPhilippe said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



You guys violate it everyday too.  The laws were changed after 9-11 and now you guys can do whatever you want.


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## Modbert (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Carefull. The GOP learned everything it knows about scare tactics from the DNC.



Probably, they take notes from one another and use them quite well when they go on the other side.


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Haha, you are so giddy with Obama man-love that your grasp of reality is not functional right now. See, you are so dependent on the government, that this bill was like the Declaration of Independence to you. You liberals are on such an emotional high right now that you can't see how destructive this is to the Democratic Party.

I don't know what it is about you guys that you savor government dependency so much, maybe a "I miss mommy" complex or something. But this bill is not going to improve your life. Us conservatives, you know, the ones who pay for most government action, we always figure out a way to come out ahead in the game of life, and will do so again and again.

Maybe you should also. Get a job in which you do not have to get giddy over a government bill passing. Then, you'll enjoy true freedom. But, until then, I suppose drink up the satisfaction of a larger government nipple for you and your peers to suck on. Personally, I grew up and moved on from using bottles.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



I know.  The GOP just wants to demonize it.  Like talking about abortion.  Who gives a fuck about abortion?  Why are other people worried about whether or not other people are having abortions?  I don't give a shit!!!


I just heard Fox say that the insurance companies are getting turned into Utilities!  I love it!!!  National Healthcare is coming!!!  YES!!


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > PatekPhilippe said:
> ...



You watch too much TV and too many "Corrupt Cop" movies. Corrupt cops are less than 1% of the forces, but unfortunately, self-initiate more than 1% of community contact. Thankfully, it is RARE that these cops get away with their misdeeds, and are usually caught or more often reported by fellow officers, usually within 5 years of hire. They are always disciplined, fired or even prosecuted depending on severity.

But, some do slip through, just as this unlawful bill just slipped through, and lawsuits will be rampant based on 4th amendment protections that this bill violates.


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



I don't get people like you who don't understand you'd be a slave if we didn't have a strong government that truly represented we the people.

And with the last two Bush appointees, the government more favors the Corporations over the people.  We need Obama to win in 2012 so he can appoint another liberal.  

If you don't realize that this government does a lot for you, and that if it didn't, you'd be a piece of shit surf/peasant/slave/working poor, then go vote with the rich.  You do not belong to the party.  You just want to belong.


----------



## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Carefull. The GOP learned everything it knows about scare tactics from the DNC.
> ...



The thing is that when Democrats perfect something, use it against the Republicans and then gloat...like they are doing here and in Washington...the Republicans always seem to find out how to do it a little bit better and then give it right back to the Democrats in spades.  We are in for another 2 years of fighting, bickering and division.


----------



## Si modo (Mar 21, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Dogbert said:
> 
> 
> > CrimsonWhite said:
> ...


Yup.

Daisy ad


----------



## sealybobo (Mar 21, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



No.  I know cops.  They drink and drive.  They rough up blacks in my neighborhood.  DWB.  

And if you want to search my car, I have no say in the matter.  And you know it.


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > CrimsonWhite said:
> ...



Or......you could get off the government nipple, get a good education and job like many of the rest of us, and then not NEED government healthcare. Stop being a loser. Grow up. Get off the government nipple.


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

What a great victory this is for America.

All the forces of darkness were arrayed against this, the Republicans, the corporate lobbyists, Fox Lies...

And yet it still passed.

Praise Jesus!


----------



## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> And with the last two Bush appointees,* the government more favors the Corporations over the people.  *We need Obama to win in 2012 so he can appoint another liberal.



Great....we got us a highschool dropout lecturing us on evil corporate America.


----------



## jeffrockit (Mar 21, 2010)

Yurt said:


> hopefully they make this a positive new government bureaucracy, unlike medicare...unfortunately, we have YEARS to wait to see what good it does, as it doesn't take affect for YEARS



Right, but we start paying for it right away. 1st decade, 6 years of HC for 10 years of payments. Sounds like a great deal.....for the govt!


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



You know BAD cops. I don't deny they exist, I just deny they are more than 1% of cops. But I do agree, that 1% of bad cops have far more interaction with the public than the other 99% because that 1% likes to go out and abuse their authority.

If BAD cops are doing that in your neighborhood, your community should report them. Get car numbers, demand OCA's at EVERY incident (thats a case number, thus forcing them to do a report and you'll be able to get a copy through FOIA). Your community does not have to, and SHOULD NOT HAVE TO put up with that.

And you DO have the right to refuse a vehicle search IF they do not have probable cause (smell of weed, see you hiding something, etc). Lots of people think they can't say no. BUT, if you are saying no, and they do it anyway, they are among the 1% bad ones. Sorry if I ramble on, but I believe in this because there are so many good ones that are portrayed to be bad due to these idiots who are in uniform for the wrong reasons. 

If you report them, or demand OCA's and they refuse, your community leaders should seriously organize and approach the local chief/sheriff's office to demand accountability.


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> What a great victory this is for America.
> 
> All the forces of darkness were arrayed against this, the Republicans, the corporate lobbyists, Fox Lies...
> 
> ...



I hope you have plenty of paper towels to clean up the mess you probably made when this thing passed.


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> What a great victory this is for America.
> 
> All the forces of darkness were arrayed against this, the Republicans, the corporate lobbyists, Fox Lies...
> 
> ...



You forgot to add "The majority of the American people" in the "forces of darkness...arrayed against this" part.

Make no mistake. This bill was written and passed so that a minority of Americans could benefit from the money taken forcefully from the other majority of Americans.


----------



## jeffrockit (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> > The war is on now, the Dems had a chance to do the right thing, they choose 'be a party aparchik at the expense of americans'.
> ...


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

PatekPhilippe said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > And with the last two Bush appointees,* the government more favors the Corporations over the people.  *We need Obama to win in 2012 so he can appoint another liberal.
> ...



"Corporate America" stole all our money and ruined our economy.

Click on this link...

Derivatives are the new ticking time bomb Paul B. Farrell - MarketWatch


----------



## concept (Mar 21, 2010)

How many Obamabots will show up the local doctors office tomorrow demanding free handouts.... err.... healthcare?


What will they do when they get turned away?


----------



## asaratis (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


All you liberals can gloat your asses off for all I care.  In a few short years, you will realize the complete failure of socialism just as other countries have in the past.  It is a real pity that you are too fucking stupid to believe history repeats itself.



sealybobo said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, fellow right wingers, it's useless to debate these libs. They don't grasp the fact that the Democratic Party just committed suicide. How can they? Remember, these are the same libs who think gov't run healthcare is a great idea. In their own minds, they salivate at government. It's like their crack cocaine. They are addicted to being dependent on government, and are eating this up like they are on a 2 day crack binge.
> ...


You really _are_ stupid.  That's the one thing that keeps slipping over your head.  We'd be infinitely better off with some modifications to to the ridiculous laws the liberals have in place regarding trials and law suits.  The current tort code nothing more than a cash cow for trial lawyers and shysters that leech off of society in the guise of legality and "fairness".  The ruling elite have won a great victory tonight.  Most of us have been fucked over.

Liberalism is a mental disorder and will destroy the United States if not put in check.

Gloat all you want.  Your complete foolishness will be exposed in the near future.  I do hope you live long enough to become enlightened.


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > What a great victory this is for America.
> ...



Bullshit.

Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. 

Unchecked capitalism destroyed our economy.


----------



## jeffrockit (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > sucks donut?
> ...



The Patriot act that Obama just signed an extension on.


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

asaratis said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



Yes, socialism is such a terrible thing....


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 21, 2010)

asaratis said:


> All you liberals can gloat your asses off for all I care.  In a few short years, you will realize the complete failure of socialism just as other countries have in the past.



Like Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, etc?


And yes, we will gloat. Thanx.


----------



## asaratis (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



That is such an intelligent statement, I may nominate you for a Nobel Prize.  You deserve it about as much as the asshole Marxist Obama did his.


----------



## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
> ...



Government subsidies paid to the healthcare industry is a good thing?  You're a fucking dope.


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Really?

You are a douche.


----------



## Liability (Mar 21, 2010)

sealybobo said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> > The war is on now, the Dems had a chance to do the right thing, they choose 'be a party aparchik at the expense of americans'.
> ...



Damn you keep fucking things up.

No.  

Since the House passed the SENATE version, as is, there will be no reconciliation.
Technically, there's no reason  to reconcile anything.  They passed the same bill already.

Granted the House TRIED to also (pretty much simultaneously) pass AMENDMENTS, but that's bullshit.  The Act is not a law until the President signs it.  He will.  But until he does sign it, it's still not a law.  You can't Amend it, yet, therefore.  And if the Amendments were deemed to be incorporated into the bill the House passed (which they won't) then there would still not be a Bill for the President TO sign, since the House would have passed a different version than the Senate.  In that event there would HAVE to be reconciliation -- which would have defeated what they tried to do --- which was to rush this crap through.

Nope.  The House CAVED IN entirely to the Senate version.  And their Amendments are nothing more substantive than a wish sandwich.

There may be grounds to attack the legislation on Constitutional grounds.  And I LOVE the fact taht so many states are drawing ehir own lines in the sand.  The challenges to this Federal Government power grab are gonna keep this crap tied up in court for years (maybe more -- one can hope).

The Mark Levin - Landmark Legal draft complaint, however, is now a dead-letter issue.  For at least the fucking idiot Congress didn't try to "deem" the garbage to have already been passed.


----------



## PatekPhilippe (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> PatekPhilippe said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Yeah...OK Cheech.


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

Olympic hockey final result....

Single payer 3

Preexisting condition 2


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
> ...



Yet.......the wealth in all those other countries come HERE for important healthcare operations. Wonder why?

Yet.......OUR poor people live better than the upper-middle class of all those other wonderful nations?

Why doesn't our country provide health insurance for all, like your beloved socialist countries everywhere else?

BECAUSE our system has created a nation in which BLACK AMERICA would be the 4th richest nation on Earth if counted as a seperate nation. Because our "poor" have an OBESITY problem!! Too much food!!! Our poor have flat screen TV's, SUV's, refridgerators, cell phones!! Go to the ghetto. See it all. Cell phones, SUV's and expensive sedans, big TV's and video games, expensive clothing.

See, OUR gov't doesn't provide healthcare because our poor......COULD afford it, but they do not WANT to afford it. They prefer to pay for OTHER luxury items. OUR middle class COULD afford it, but they try to "Keep up with the Joneses" and buy homes they can't afford or are bigger than they need, and have vanity babies.

That is the problem. We have some people that are uninsured, but not "uninsurable". They choose to buy WANTS rather than NEEDS.

When our "poor" suffer from too much access to food, and drive nice cars, have air conditioned homes, TV's, cell phones (yes, God Damn cell phones), refridgerators, microwaves, etc, but then whine "I can't afford health insurance" and demand OTHER people pay for it?????

Fucking parasites.


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 21, 2010)

An experiment begins, and the lab rats rejoice.


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > All you liberals can gloat your asses off for all I care.  In a few short years, you will realize the complete failure of socialism just as other countries have in the past.
> ...



We are far richer than all those countries combined. Our poor live better than their middle class. Yes, they are failures, we are not. 

Problem is our "poor" are greedy and don't want to give up their SUV or plasma TV so they can afford health insurance. Our middle class don't want to give up their 4 bedroom house in exchange for a 3 bedroom apartment in order to afford health insurance. 

Thus, those people become parasite liberals and demand Big Daddy Government provide them with a nipple to suck on until they are healthy.


----------



## bucs90 (Mar 21, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> An experiment begins, and the lab rats rejoice.



Wow, thats a good one.

I like this one:

The prison builds thicker walls, the inmates rejoice.

Parasite liberals will never learn, and they'll never escape the government cradle.


----------



## woodjack (Mar 21, 2010)

Darkwind said:


> A lot of poor people were just made poorer.
> 
> Now we challenge in court AND we file criminal charges against them when they are removed from office.



exactly, when will they learn?  umm how is giving "free health care" going to make these people improve their situation?  Give people free housing ......turns into a slum/ghetto,  Obama thinks this will create equality,  umm historically look at the facts......people do not improve their situations by giving them free stuff only hard work and determination does it.

let the government solve my problems, let me not do a thing.

how are big cities going to cope with the big influx of claiments now?  some cities will have umm 200k new patients because of this.  where are the doctors going to come from?  and the people who actually pay top dollar for their health care are they going to get subpare service?  have you people been to a busy overbooked restaurant and gotten above average food  and great service?.....this is a fiasco waiting to happen and conveyer belt service that will break down over time.  Win for America?  I see standards being reduced.  might look good on paper but I think I would rather use this bill to wipe my butt and flush.


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



You have been brainwashed by corporate lobbyists.

Do a little research about other countries healthcare systems. They don't deny people coverage for preexisting conditions. Their people don't go bankrupt because they get cancer. They have longer life expectancies than we do, and their healthcare costs are HALF per capita what ours are.


----------



## Chris (Mar 21, 2010)

woodjack said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of poor people were just made poorer.
> ...



So you are saying we should get rid of Medicare for old people and the VA for veterans?


----------



## Liability (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
> ...




The brainwashed one is you Cwissy.

No.  They don't deny folks in those socialist paradises coverage for pre-existing conditions.  They get to be treated JUST AS WELL as someone who didn't have the condition previously -- which is to say, lousy medical care.

No, they don't bankrupt you just because you've gotten cancer.  They just don't fucking do all that much to TREAT it.

And no, they generally do NOT have longer life expectancies than we do, although we probably DO have room for improvement based on diet and exercise -- not on medical care.

And it's fucking EASY to claim health care costs are HALF of ours when everybody is paying MOST of what they earn in taxes and the taxes get apportioned to cover -- among other entitlements -- health care.

You are one gullible kid, Cwissy.


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Mar 21, 2010)

Liability said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > bucs90 said:
> ...



You will have to forgive Chris/Kirk. He has been in orgasmic euphoria for the last hour. By his posts, you would think this healthcare bill is the second coming of Christ, when in reality it s worthless. What he fails to realize is that it doesn't really accomplish the goals that the President wanted. They are calling it a huge victory, but in reality, it is a bigass expensive piece of shit.


----------



## woodjack (Mar 21, 2010)

Chris said:


> woodjack said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...



Nope did not say that.  VA is different they actually served and did a service much like our politicians ,  I am just showing the huge problems this bill will introduce, something Obama is great about overlooking.  And the fact remains that why would you improve your situatiion if they made it easier for you.  People are lazy.

I guess we will ask for doctors from Cuba and Africa to help with this issues.  What is soo wrong with making it hard on the poor so they try to improve their situation?  Go to school....seems to me in America, pride and hard work and integrity  are all slowly going extinct.   I suggest you go to governement housing in the nearest big city and see what good that has done.  

what is done is done,  I think it very funny that people do not see any problems that will arise out of this and the huge mess this will undoubtedly will result.  

I kinda think that it may keep people down instead of improving,  seen people working under the table so they keep their welfare checks and the corruption that entails so this will make people stay down so they will continue to get all the advantages of welfare health care, free housing, and other programs made to make people dependant and not work for anything.... good luck if that is your american dream that is not mine.....


----------



## jeffrockit (Mar 21, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > All you liberals can gloat your asses off for all I care.  In a few short years, you will realize the complete failure of socialism just as other countries have in the past.
> ...



Look at their tax rates compared to the US. Germany's individual tax rate is 40%, Sweden is close to 30%. Tax rates around the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Are you ok with US tax rates going that high so everyone can have "Free" healthcare?


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > All you liberals can gloat your asses off for all I care.  In a few short years, you will realize the complete failure of socialism just as other countries have in the past.
> ...


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 21, 2010)

jeffrockit said:


> EriktheRed said:
> 
> 
> > asaratis said:
> ...



Maybe not that high, but they'll have to go up at some point even without this bill.


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 21, 2010)

Just wanted to share this, too:


----------



## Dante (Mar 21, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > All you liberals can gloat your asses off for all I care.  In a few short years, you will realize the complete failure of socialism just as other countries have in the past.
> ...



Love the signature:

How To Suck Seed As An Ayn Rand Lunatic​


----------



## 007 (Mar 22, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> Time to start the tough battles in the courts.




Time for another Civil War.


----------



## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> jeffrockit said:
> 
> 
> > EriktheRed said:
> ...



Yes and with this bill tax rates will have to reach social unrest levels....


----------



## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Time to start the tough battles in the courts.
> ...



Why, the South looking to get it's ass kicked again?


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 22, 2010)

bucs90 said:


> We are far richer than all those countries combined. Our poor live better than their middle class. Yes, they are failures, we are not.



We're richer, but  "Our poor live better than their middle class" is not true at all. And no, there are some ways they have their shit together that we don't at the moment despite our wealth so they're not failures like the USSR or N. Korea or Cuba. They're also not totally socialist, which I and a good many on here who support this legislation don't want to see happen here and don't believe that it will just because of this.


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 22, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Time to start the tough battles in the courts.
> ...



There won't be one, dumbass.


----------



## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Time to start the tough battles in the courts.
> ...



Requiring citizens to purchase health care is unconstitutional and that aspect of this law will be struck down by the courts. Gotta love the American check and balance system.


----------



## 007 (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



Nope... it'll be the liberals turn this time.


----------



## 007 (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



You bet it's unconstitutional, and the law suits will be flying. Don't know if the Supreme Court will even hear it though.

There's already 37 states that have legislation written that will ban the feds from enforcing this in their states.


----------



## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



gawd, the Right Wing Choir is in full falsetto and heels tonight.


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> Just wanted to share this, too:



Damn, I don't think I've ever been so happy to be neg-repped on here.


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> EriktheRed said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



Oh, this isn't a new thing with this moron.


He's a birther, too, btw.


----------



## Chris (Mar 22, 2010)

The wailing and knashing of teeth is hysterical.

I love it!

All because we are helping the sick.

Modern conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.


----------



## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> jreeves said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



Are U kidding me? 
Especially with Obama's history with this court, they are clamoring at the chance to strike this down.


----------



## 007 (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



And I'll start with you ya fucking shit stain.


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 22, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> EriktheRed said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



No you won't and there won't be another civil war.


----------



## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> The wailing and knashing of teeth is hysterical.
> 
> I love it!
> 
> ...



yeah i am sure grandma would agree with you when medicare is slashed to nothing...


----------



## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> The wailing and knashing of teeth is hysterical.
> 
> I love it!
> 
> ...



true dat.

here's a toast to ya.


----------



## 007 (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > EriktheRed said:
> ...



Fuck off dumbass.


----------



## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > The wailing and knashing of teeth is hysterical.
> ...



If you think this will actually become reality then you better lay off the bottle.


----------



## 007 (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > jreeves said:
> ...



I hope so. But I vaguely remember hearing something about this today, that the supreme court wouldn't touch it because it was government. I don't know. I hope they do hear it and ram it right back down obama's fucking throat.


----------



## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
> ...



Oh yeah, it's un-constitutional because some cross dressing closet case in conservative cloth says so?


----------



## Modbert (Mar 22, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> Fuck off dumbass.



So when you going to fire the first shot Jefferson Davis? Errr Pale.


----------



## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

Pale Rider said:


> jreeves said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



It's all about Obama isn't it?


feel the love, Pale Rider, feel the love...


----------



## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck off dumbass.
> ...



don't tempt him, he's already confessed to being mentally disturbed and on a guvment pension.


----------



## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Maybe you could cite where in the US Constitution, this Congress derives it's power to force citizens to purchase health care insurance?


----------



## elvis (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> Dogbert said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



he worked for that pension.  don't turn into that fuckstain kirkybot, now.


----------



## Gunny (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...



Nah, it's unconstitutional because anyone with a brain that's read the Constitution would have a clue.  

Or did I miss the part where the Federal government is supposed to dictate who I will participate in socialism?


----------



## EriktheRed (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
> ...




Were you one of those who were predicting this wouldn't even pass?


----------



## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> jreeves said:
> 
> 
> > Dante said:
> ...


If I did, please point it out. Dems control congress....duh...
But there is the constitution thing and mid term elections thing....


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Dante said:
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oh please, give up the fantasy life.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

elvis said:


> Dante said:
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> > Dogbert said:
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never said he didn't, but you know,...some people are anti guvment handouts


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## elvis (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> elvis said:
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It's not a handout if you work for it, which he did.


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## EriktheRed (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> EriktheRed said:
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Hey, I'm just asking. A lot of Cons on here who were predicting it wouldn't pass _despite_ the majority were saying the same things you are now.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

Gunny said:


> Dante said:
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The meaning(S) in the US Constitution has been argued about since even before it's adoption. Your opinion, as uninformed as it is, is just one of many.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

elvis said:


> Dante said:
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Oh I agree, but some people don't make those nuanced distinctions.


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## Gunny (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> jreeves said:
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Yeah ... and a lot of leftwingnuts think it passing is a good thing.  Just one more social program for the thieves in government to fatten their wallets on at the expense of ours.

Way to go, Einstein.


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
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If its constitutional then you would have no problem citing where in the Constitution it gives Congress the right to require citizens to purchase health care.


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

EriktheRed said:


> jreeves said:
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I'm not a Con I'm a person who realizes this law will be struck down by the courts. Furthermore, the Dems sealed their fates in the mid term elections...great job Pelosi and Obama....


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

Gunny said:


> EriktheRed said:
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yeah, damn those these for paying grandma and grand pa's medical and all those damn SS checks. 

I bet people would rather pay for their own ailing parents, eh? Instead of pawning the old folks off on the guvment


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> Gunny said:
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That's ironic you would bring that up, when this bill flips the middle finger at grandma and grandpa's medical coverage...


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Dante said:
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I've posted what constitutional scholars on all sides have said. 

beat a dead horse if you will.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


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GOP spin as fact?


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
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sure u have...


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## Oscar Wao (Mar 22, 2010)

Gunny said:


> Dante said:
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Nah, it's more like, why should the government force me to buy a PRODUCT?  A COMMODITY TO BE BOUGHT AND SOLD?!

That is an abominable assault on liberty.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Dante said:
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see?

then there is this:  Is Mandatory Health Insurance Constitutional? - - CBS News


> Timothy Jost, a professor of Washington and Lee University School of Law who says he prefers a national public plan, has argued the constitutional principles -- saying in a Politico.com essay that the question was a Republican "talking point" that shouldn't be taken terribly seriously. "A basic principle of our constitutional system for the last t]


http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/109359-serious-discussion-thread-3.html


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
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no spin....
Medicare Cuts Stay In Health Care Bill : NPR
*The Senate has voted to keep significant Medicare cuts in its health care overhaul bill *despite polls showing seniors are concerned about their benefits.

Like I said ironic considering this bill flips the middle finger at Grandma and Grandpa's medical coverage.


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
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Timothy Jost, a professor of Washington and Lee University School of Law *who says he prefers a national public plan*, has argued the constitutional principles -- saying in a Politico.com essay that the question was a Republican "talking point" that shouldn't be taken terribly seriously.

I'm sure that Jost wouldn't be biased in his opinion...no


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## Chris (Mar 22, 2010)

Oscar Wao said:


> Gunny said:
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Horseshit.

Do you have car insurance?


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## Chris (Mar 22, 2010)

Gunny said:


> EriktheRed said:
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Just like you and your government check every month.


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## Dr Grump (Mar 22, 2010)

Gunny said:


> Just one more social program for the thieves in government to fatten their wallets on at the expense of ours.



And that's probably the true issue here.....


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Dante said:
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http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-flame-zone/110214-jreeves-and-lessons-on-talking-out-of-your-arse.html#post2123153


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> Oscar Wao said:
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I have car insurance I choose....but do you have a brain...NO


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> Oscar Wao said:
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You don't have to buy car insurance. You can register a statement of financial responsibility.


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## Chris (Mar 22, 2010)

Dr Grump said:


> Gunny said:
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> > Just one more social program for the thieves in government to fatten their wallets on at the expense of ours.
> ...



No, the true issue here is corporate lobbyists control of Congress, and their ability to make something useful like providing healthcare a bad thing.


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## Dante (Mar 22, 2010)

jreeves said:


> Dante said:
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one of a few legal scholars who are quoted.

you didn't read the article because you can;t read at that level?





> Still, not even conservative and libertarian scholars who would like  to see mandatory health insurance shot down by the courts are betting it will be, although Georgetown's Randy Barnett holds out some hope. Call it the difference between political preference and reality, or the difference between what is and what might be.
> 
> 
> Ilya Somin, a law professor at George Mason University, wrote an article  responding to Gonzales v. Raich that concludes the decision "seems to all but eliminate the prospect of meaningful judicial restriction of congressional Commerce Clause authority." Somin writes for the Volokh.com Web site, where he says: "It is extremely rare for the Court to strike down a law that enjoys strong majority support from both the general public and the political elite, and is a major item on the current political agenda. Doing that is likely to create a head-on confrontation between the Court and the political branches of government, which the Court will almost certainly lose, as happened when the Court struck down various New Deal laws in the 1930s." He adds  that while the Supreme Court is likely to uphold mandatory health insurance, "such a law would be unconstitutional under the correct interpretation of the Commerce Clause -- or any interpretation that takes the constitutional text seriously."


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## elvis (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> Dr Grump said:
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so the lobbyists are responsible for this bill?


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
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I like this article better...
Is Government Health Care Constitutional? - WSJ.com
Is a government-dominated health-care system unconstitutional? A strong case can be made for that proposition, based on the same "right to privacy" that underlies such landmark Supreme Court decisions as Roe v. Wade.

The details of this year's health-care reform bill are still being hammered out. But the end result is sure to be byzantine in complexity. Washington will have immense say over how, when and through whom Americans are treated. Moreover, despite the administration's public pronouncements about painless cuts in wasteful spending, only the most credulous believe that some form of government-directed health-care rationing can be avoided as a means of controlling costs.

The Supreme Court created the right to privacy in the 1960s and used it to strike down a series of state and federal regulations of personal (mostly sexual) conduct. This line of cases began with Griswold v. Connecticut in 1965 (involving marital birth control), and includes the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion.

The court's underlying rationale was not abortion-specific. Rather, the justices posited a constitutionally mandated zone of personal privacy that must remain free of government regulation, except in the most exceptional circumstances. As the court explained in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992), "these matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and the mystery of human life."

It is, of course, difficult to imagine choices more "central to personal dignity and autonomy" than measures to be taken for the prevention and treatment of disease -- measures that may be essential to preserve or extend life itself. Indeed, when the overwhelming moral issues that surround the abortion question are stripped away, what is left is a medical procedure determined to be "necessary" by an expectant mother and her physician.

If the government cannot proscribe -- or even "unduly burden," to use another of the Supreme Court's analytical frameworks -- access to abortion, how can it proscribe access to other medical procedures, including transplants, corrective or restorative surgeries, chemotherapy treatments, or a myriad of other health services that individuals may need or desire?

This type of "burden" analysis will be especially problematic for a national health system because, in the health area, proper care often depends upon an individual's unique physical and even genetic history and characteristics. One size clearly does not fit all, but that is the very essence of governmental regulation -- to impose a regularity (if not uniformity) in the application of governmental power and the dispersal of its largess. Taking key decisions away from patient and physician, or otherwise limiting their available choices, will render any new system constitutionally vulnerable.

It is true, of course, that forms of rationing already exist in our current system. No one who has experienced the marked reluctance to treat aggressively lethal illnesses in the elderly can doubt that. However, what may be permissible for private actors -- including doctors and insurance companies -- is not necessarily lawful when done by the government.

Obviously, the government does not have to pay for any and all services individual citizens may desire. And simply refusing to approve a procedure or treatment under applicable reimbursement rules, as under the government-run Medicare and Medicaid, does not make the system unconstitutional. But if over time, as many critics fear, a "public option" health insurance plan turns into what amounts to a single-payer system, the constitutional issues regarding treatment and reimbursement decisions will be manifold.

The same will be true of a quasi-private system where the government claims a large role in defining acceptable health-insurance coverage and treatments. There will be all sorts of "undue burdens" on the rights of patients to receive the care they may want. Then the litigation will begin.

*Anyone who imagines that Congress can simply avoid the constitutional issues -- and lawsuits -- by withdrawing federal court jurisdiction over the new health system must think again. A brief review of the Supreme Court's recent war-on-terror decisions, brought by or on behalf of detained enemy combatants, will disabuse that notion. This area of governmental authority was once nearly immune from judicial intervention. Over the past five years, however, the Supreme Court (supposedly the nonpolitical branch) has unapologetically transformed itself into a full-fledged, policy-making partner with the president and Congress.*

In the process, the justices blew past specific congressional efforts to limit their jurisdiction and involvement like a hot rod in the desert. Questions of basic constitutionality (however the court may define them) cannot now be shielded from judicial review.


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> Horseshit.
> 
> Do you have car insurance?



Who is forced to buy car insurance? I'm sure not.


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> > Gunny said:
> ...



The Constitution of the United States makes Federal intervention into the health care industry a bad thing. It's designed to keep our nation free.

But, of course, you prefer totalitarianism.


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## CrimsonWhite (Mar 22, 2010)

Avatar4321 said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Horseshit.
> ...



Nobody is. You have the option to file a statement of financial responsibility.


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## jreeves (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
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Fucktard I know that you were suppose to use an apostrophe here dumbass. ...you didn't read the article because you *can;t *read at that level?


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## Avatar4321 (Mar 22, 2010)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
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> > Chris said:
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You also have the option not to drive a car.


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 22, 2010)

y'all gonna die.


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## Chris (Mar 22, 2010)

The wailing and knashing of teeth on the right is quite humorous. This is a great day for America. We have finally caught up to the rest of the world. 

Here is a list of countries with national health insurance..

Afghanistan, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom.


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## Newby (Mar 22, 2010)

Oscar Wao said:


> Gunny said:
> 
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> > Dante said:
> ...



What's ironic is that the leftwing nuts on here don't see how this is blatant support for the insurance industry they have condemned and claimed to hate.  Now the US goverment is handing them more customers at the point of a gun.  Guess the insurance lobbyists did a great job. Gotta love it.


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## WillowTree (Mar 22, 2010)

Newby said:


> Oscar Wao said:
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> > Gunny said:
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don't be fooled by that misnomer. the gubbmint will place such restrictions and rules and taxes on the insurance companies as to drive them out of business,, that's the end game, the public option,, everything they try to sell you in between now and the public option is pure lies.


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## Newby (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> Oscar Wao said:
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Does everyone pay for their own when they CHOOSE to own and drive a car?  Stupid anaology.


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> What a great victory this is for America.
> 
> All the forces of darkness were arrayed against this, the Republicans, the corporate lobbyists, Fox Lies...
> 
> ...



You really need to pay attention more, Big Pharm and Insurance companies are the big winners in this. They cut the deals with the Dems.


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## Newby (Mar 22, 2010)

WillowTree said:


> Newby said:
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Oh, I know that, but the idiots on here having a party about it don't see how their politicians are in bed with corporate USA, if not more so, than the other side of the aisle.


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## WillowTree (Mar 22, 2010)

Newby said:


> Chris said:
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well, they do now, but when the libtards get through whining about the "have nots" we the federal income tax payers will have to purchase their car insurance too,, they love their sugar tits.


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## WillowTree (Mar 22, 2010)

SFC Ollie said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > What a great victory this is for America.
> ...



only for the short term. onloy for the short term.


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## SFC Ollie (Mar 22, 2010)

Dante said:


> jreeves said:
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Fact: go try to purchase a Medicare Advantage plan.....Cannot be done. This Bill killed the entire plan. Why do you think AARP stopped advertising their Medicare Advantage program months ago? That's when they made their deal with the Dems.


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## GHook93 (Mar 22, 2010)

Caterpillar, IL largest manufacturer employer, announced this bill will cost it $100 million. This will equate to heads rolling, or glup, another large US manufacturer going overseas!

I can't believe Caterpillar is the only one being hit by this. Many other like Corporation will also be hit hard.

The last thing we needed is a hit to the private sector, yet that is what we just got!



> 2nd UPDATE Caterpillar: Health Bill Would Cost Company $100M - WSJ.com
> 
> CHICAGO (Dow Jones)--Caterpillar Inc. (CAT) said the proposed overhaul of the U.S. health-care system could increase its costs by $100 million, signaling disquiet in corporate America about the controversial plan.
> 
> ...


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## boedicca (Mar 22, 2010)

WillowTree said:


> don't be fooled by that misnomer. the gubbmint will place such restrictions and rules and taxes on the insurance companies as to drive them out of business,, that's the end game, the public option,, everything they try to sell you in between now and the public option is pure lies.




That's not how I see it playing out.  There are currently 1,300 health insurance companies across the U.S.  Only 6 are allowed to "compete" in CA.  CA has a very active insurance commissioner which provides a preview of Federal Coming Attractions.

The largest most well connected insurance companies will use the Federal Government to regulate out of existence the smaller, more cost effective competitors.  Then these Large Behemoth Crony Companies, with the help of those who regulate them, will split up the U.S. into their protected territories, turning themselves into virtual public utilities.

They will collude with government to set a targets for profits and return on capital on a cost plus basis.   The point will be to maintain the cost structure in order to generate predictable profits.   

They will keep the cost of providing services to individuals under control by using regulators to periodically define down the standard of care so that they can keep a constant ratio of revenue to costs - leading to less service, longer wait times, and de facto rationing.


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 22, 2010)

Newby said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Oscar Wao said:
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Stupid analogy made by Chrissy...the eurotrash socialist.


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 22, 2010)

WillowTree said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
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> > Chris said:
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Exactly...it's only a matter of time before the government takes over the pharmaceutical industry and single payer becomes reality...I sure hope you fucking libtards are happy.


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## 007 (Mar 22, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck off dumbass.
> ...



When are you going to pull your tongue out of obama's anus FDR... err dog?


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## concept (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
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No. Liberals in control of the purse-strings did that.


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 22, 2010)

Chris said:


> Unchecked capitalism destroyed our economy.



Unchecked stupidity...such as yours...is destroying the United States of America.


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## Chris (Mar 23, 2010)

PatekPhilippe said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Unchecked capitalism destroyed our economy.
> ...



Personal insults will never take the place of reasoned arguments.

You lose.


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## PatekPhilippe (Mar 23, 2010)

Chris said:


> PatekPhilippe said:
> 
> 
> > Chris said:
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Wrong shit for brains...you lose....hope you like paying astronomical premiums for your healthcare for the forseeable future...

Oh wait....your a fucking loser who begged for a handout because you still live in your mommy's basement...
Your info has been forwarded to the IRS for fine collection.  Have a nice day.


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