# NY Gov. Hochul’s new gun law prohibits historical reenactor's muzzleloaders, flintlocks, black powder rifles



## JGalt (Sep 10, 2022)

Another fine example of the left erasing Constitutional rights and American history, one piece at a time.

"During the annual Battle of Plattsburgh commemoration, re-enactors from New York, Canada and the Northeast demonstrate the ground battles that occurred as a naval battle took place simultaneously on Lake Champlain. They also march in a parade with their muzzleloaders, flintlocks and black powder rifles and camp on the grounds of the local historic museum.

But there’s a problem this year. State Assemblyman D. Billy Jones, a Democrat representing the 115th district, says New York’s new gun law specifically prohibits all those activities. …

“The new law the way it’s written reenactors are not allowed to carry a firearm, a musket loading type rifle, black powder rifle, flintlock rifle, whatever because it’s in violation of the new law. The new gun law of New York state has claimed its first casualty: the Battle of Plattsburgh. It’s the first event happening after the new law went into effect on the 1st. There’s nothing in the law that let’s an exemption happen or a waiver happen for an event in a historical significance like we have here in Plattsburgh. We have over 70 reenactors that were coming to this event. Very disappointing.”

Battle of Plattsburgh reenactor chair PJ Miller says some reenactors have canceled their appearance at this weekend’s events."

_NY Gov. Hochul's Law Claims Its First Victims: Historical Battle Reenactors - The Truth About Guns_


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

Good.  Now someone has the standing to bring it before the courts, right up to the SCOTUS.

The SCOTUS needs to rule that the States are NOT PERMITTED to limit gun rights in any manner.  Full stop.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Good.  Now someone has the standing to bring it before the courts, right up to the SCOTUS.
> 
> The SCOTUS needs to rule that the States are NOT PERMITTED to limit gun rights in any manner.  Full stop.



Seriously?  This is worthy of certiorari at the Supreme Court?  Really?

I mean, yeah, it's probably a bit silly to ban the use of guns by reenactors, especially the kind of slow olde timey guns they have.  This is a simple case of overreach by a small group of lawmakers.

If I were you I'd save the diapers and pissing your pants over something for a bigger battle. This isn't a hill worth dying on.


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Seriously?  This is worthy of certiorari at the Supreme Court?  Really?
> 
> I mean, yeah, it's probably a bit silly to ban the use of guns by reenactors, especially the kind of slow olde timey guns they have.  This is a simple case of overreach by a small group of lawmakers.
> 
> If I were you I'd save the diapers and pissing your pants over something for a bigger battle. This isn't a hill worth dying on.


It is Constitutionally criminal to ban any guns until and unless due process has been enacted.  Due process takes rights from ONLY the guilty, never the lawful.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> It is Constitutionally criminal to ban any guns until and unless due process has been enacted.  Due process takes rights from ONLY the guilty, never the lawful.



Boy you guys sure are quick to defend guns.

If only you cared about people as much.


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Boy you guys sure are quick to defend guns.
> 
> If only you cared about people as much.


We do.  Simply because we don't think your way is the right one does not equate to our not caring.   That is and always has been a failed talking point tactic.

BTW, I am NOT defending guns. Guns are inanimate objects. 

I am defending the 100's of millions of law-abiding citizens in the USA and their right (not given to them by the government) to defend themselves using the means of their choice.


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## 1srelluc (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Boy you guys sure are quick to defend guns.
> 
> If only you cared about people as much.


My guns aren't vapid entitled assholes.


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## ABikerSailor (Sep 10, 2022)

You know, there isn't a single link or mention of the actual gun law that was passed, or what it concerns exactly in the OP's link.  Just a gun blog bitching about what they think is a new restriction on guns.

No, the guns carried in the reenactment wouldn't be prohibited or banned.  The law specifically talks about realistic looking guns that are used in the commission of a crime.

Here is a link about the actual law.........................









						Governor Hochul Signs Gun Safety Legislation Strengthening Bans on Realistic-looking Imitation Weapons Used to Commit Crimes
					

Governor Hochul signed legislation S.687/A.3998 to strengthen restrictions on imitation weapons, which can be used to commit crimes.




					www.governor.ny.gov
				




Here is what they are saying, and it also specifically states that realistic guns (i.e. the muzzleloaders) CAN be used in theatrical productions (of which the reenactment is).

*This new law strengthens existing restrictions on imitation weapons by clarifying that permissible imitation weapons must be easily identifiable: they cannot be black, blue, silver or aluminum, and must be colored white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, bright purple, or be made entirely of transparent or translucent materials. While certain imitation weapons are prohibited by certain municipalities, like New York City, this new law will create consistency throughout the state. Limited common-sense exceptions for special use, such as imitation weapons used in theatrical productions, are permitted.*

They are saying that they want fake weapons to be readily identifiable as fake weapons to prevent them from being used in a crime or causing police to shoot the person with the fake weapon.  Theatrical productions (for you guys that don't know what that means, it means telling a story via the process of acting, which is what the reenactment is) are exempt from this law.

But, criminals will do their best to get around this, probably by painting or modifying their weapons to look fake.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> We do.  Simply because we don't think your way is the right one does not equate to our not caring.   That is and always has been a failed talking point tactic.



Nope.  Not buying it.  ALmost 40 dead little kids and nothing done in the law to change anything meaningfully says your lobby is very effective at stopping all limits on guns but couldn't be less associated with saving lives.



Darkwind said:


> BTW, I am NOT defending guns. Guns are inanimate objects.



Sure, sure.



Darkwind said:


> I am defending the 100's of millions of law-abiding citizens in the USA and their right (not given to them by the government) to defend themselves using the means of their choice.



100's of Millions?  You do realize that our population in the USA is only about 300 million.  Yes we have lots of guns but they are not spread equally.  A lot wind up in hands of gun fetishists and mass murderers.  

Yes there are a lot of law-abiding citizens.  But they can only buy 2 boxes of Sudafed a day but they can have as many guns each day as they want.

Our values are fucked up.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

1srelluc said:


> My guns aren't vapid entitled assholes.



No, they're your good friends.  Your only friends.  Always there for you.  You can go to your gun safe every day and lovingly touch and stroke their shiny metal surface.  Feel the ridges.  You get a little chubby and run off to fap one out.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> It is Constitutionally criminal to ban any guns until and unless due process has been enacted.  Due process takes rights from ONLY the guilty, never the lawful.



You guys jump up and down and scream and stamp your feet at even the HINT that someone somewhere might want a gun not fired and you lose your shit.

20-40 little kids get their heads blown apart in a shooting and all you have are "thotz-n-prayerz".

Sorry, your values are skewed.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Boy you guys sure are quick to defend guns.
> 
> If only you cared about people as much.



We do. That's why we are quick to defend guns.  They make quick work of people like this









						Second suspect arrested over Saskatchewan stabbings DIES in police custody
					

According to the RCMP, Myles Sanderson, the second suspect in the Saskatchewan mass stabbing incident has died in police custody




					euroweeklynews.com


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Nope.  Not buying it.  ALmost 40 dead little kids and nothing done in the law to change anything meaningfully says your lobby is very effective at stopping all limits on guns but couldn't be less associated with saving lives.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is estimated that over 200 million people own over 400 million guns.

More than that die each year in buckets and swimming pools.  You're attempt at fear and guilt just failed massively.  You see, there are already laws against using guns to kill kids.  How did those laws work out?  In addition, those kids were not killed by a law-abiding individual.  So much failure on your part.

YOUR values are fucked up.  Mine are in perfect alignment with a moral life.


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## ABikerSailor (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> I am defending the 100's of millions of law-abiding citizens in the USA and their right (not given to them by the government) to defend themselves using the means of their choice.



Not given to them by the government?  I guess you don't know that the Constitution is the founding document for the government of the US, meaning that rights given in the Constitution are rights given by the government.


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys jump up and down and scream and stamp your feet at even the HINT that someone somewhere might want a gun not fired and you lose your shit.
> 
> 20-40 little kids get their heads blown apart in a shooting and all you have are "thotz-n-prayerz".
> 
> Sorry, your values are skewed.


No one here is losing their shit but you.


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

ABikerSailor said:


> Not given to them by the government?  I guess you don't know that the Constitution is the founding document for the government of the US, meaning that rights given in the Constitution are rights given by the government.


You realize that natural rights are not given to us by men.  The Constitution is a LIMIT on government, not on the citizen.


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## ABikerSailor (Sep 10, 2022)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> We do. That's why we are quick to defend guns.  They make quick work of people like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Guns didn't "make quick work" of the person listed in your link.  Nature and being in police custody, not being shot, "made quick work" of him.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> No one here is losing their shit but you.


LOL.  Sure, sure.


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## ABikerSailor (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> You realize that natural rights are not given to us by men.  The Constitution is a LIMIT on government, not on the citizen.



There is nothing "natural" about a gun, so how in the hell can it be considered a "natural" right?  And yes, the Constitution is the founding document of our government, so rights given in it are rights given by the government.  You conservatives like to twist around and mythologize the Constitution.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> It is estimated that over 200 million people own over 400 million guns.



Where do you get that figure? 



Darkwind said:


> More than that die each year in buckets and swimming pools.  You're attempt at fear and guilt just failed massively.



Your arguments are so facile and moronic.  You "win".  Special prize!



Darkwind said:


> YOUR values are fucked up.  Mine are in perfect alignment with a moral life.



Sure, sure.  

Now rub your weinie while reading about gun specs.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Sep 10, 2022)

ABikerSailor said:


> Guns didn't "make quick work" of the person listed in your link.  Nature and being in police custody, not being shot, "made quick work" of him.



Did the victims have one?

Remember that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when the guy is swinging the machete around and Jones just rolls his eyes, pulls out his pistol, and shoots the guy?  There's a point there.



ABikerSailor said:


> There is nothing "natural" about a gun, so how in the hell can it be considered a "natural" right?


Self defense is a natural right, but you already knew that.


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

ABikerSailor said:


> There is nothing "natural" about a gun, so how in the hell can it be considered a "natural" right?  And yes, the Constitution is the founding document of our government, so rights given in it are rights given by the government.  You conservatives like to twist around and mythologize the Constitution.


Self-defense is a natural right, given to all life.  The gun is particularly singled out by the founders as off limits to the government.  The Second Amendment is a restriction on the Federal Government.  

The Constitution does not give us a right to guns.  If that were the case, they'd be obligated to provide us with one.  The right to gun ownership is enshrined in our natural right to defense.


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Where do you get that figure?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


google.com  Knock yourself out.


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## ABikerSailor (Sep 10, 2022)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Did the victims have one?
> 
> Remember that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when the guy is swinging the machete around and Jones just rolls his eyes, pulls out his pistol, and shoots the guy?  There's a point there.
> 
> ...



What do the victims have to do with the guy dying in police custody?  Guns didn't make quick work of him, nature and being in custody did.  And what does a fictional movie have to do with the current subject being discussed.  Self defense may be a natural right, but the means to accomplish it as you state are not natural, as guns are not natural.


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## JGalt (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Where do you get that figure?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He was a little high on the estimated number of gun owners in the US. There are just about as many US gun owners as there were Democrats who supposedly voted for Joe Biden. Of course, that doesn't count those people who own guns, but aren't known about. Nobody knows how many of those there are. So it could be 200 million for all you know.

There are also almost 400 million known privately-owned guns in the US, and probably more that aren't known of. I know that I have more than several guns that weren't purchased through channels.

How Many GUNS are in the US in 2022? (Gun Ownership Stats)


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## Cellblock2429 (Sep 10, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Another fine example of the left erasing Constitutional rights and American history, one piece at a time.
> 
> "During the annual Battle of Plattsburgh commemoration, re-enactors from New York, Canada and the Northeast demonstrate the ground battles that occurred as a naval battle took place simultaneously on Lake Champlain. They also march in a parade with their muzzleloaders, flintlocks and black powder rifles and camp on the grounds of the local historic museum.
> 
> ...


/------/ And Libtards claim they aren't after our guns.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Sep 10, 2022)

ABikerSailor said:


> What do the victims have to do with the guy dying in police custody?  Guns didn't make quick work of him, nature and being in custody did.  And what does a fictional movie have to do with the current subject being discussed.  Self defense may be a natural right, but the means to accomplish it as you state are not natural, as guns are not natural.



So as I expected, you have nothing to offer to the discussion.  Have a nice day.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> google.com  Knock yourself out.



Thanks!  Will do.  When I care about your point.  (I assume you don't know how the figure was arrived at, in other words is it a _per capita_ type calculation which doesn't actually mean every member of the 200M population actually owns a gun).

I don't care if you don't care.

Now go play with your guns!


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## ABikerSailor (Sep 10, 2022)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> So as I expected, you have nothing to offer to the discussion.  Have a nice day.



I'm asking you to explain your opinions, to try to see if there was any point to them, but there's not, as reflected in your response.  When a person can't support their claims, they tend to walk away from the conversation.  Thank you for demonstrating that.


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## JGalt (Sep 10, 2022)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /------/ And Libtards claim they aren't after our guns.



They're lying. They also claimed homosexuality and transgenderism had nothing to do with pedophilia.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /------/ And Libtards claim they aren't after our guns.



At some point they might actually want to take your guns.  There's no one (NO ONE) who is running on that platform.

But you gullible fools listen to NRA fear talk and go buy more guns.  You are like Pavlov's dogs with gun baiting.

LOL.

Weak minded fools.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

JGalt said:


> They're lying. They also claimed homosexuality and transgenderism had nothing to do with pedophilia.



Oh jeeeezus. 

What is with bigot patrol today?


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## night_son (Sep 10, 2022)

Darkwind said:


> Good.  Now someone has the standing to bring it before the courts, right up to the SCOTUS.
> 
> The SCOTUS needs to rule that the States are NOT PERMITTED to limit gun rights in any manner.  Full stop.



And put an end to the NFA and GCA, which the Supreme Courts _Bruen_ decision should ultimately do.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

night_son said:


> And put an end to the NFA and GCA, which the Supreme Courts _Bruen_ decision should ultimately do.



Boy if the NFA bothers you , you've been at this a LOOOOOONG time.

May I ask why you might need a fully automatic gun?  Do you have some sort of plan for its use?


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## 2aguy (Sep 10, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Another fine example of the left erasing Constitutional rights and American history, one piece at a time.
> 
> "During the annual Battle of Plattsburgh commemoration, re-enactors from New York, Canada and the Northeast demonstrate the ground battles that occurred as a naval battle took place simultaneously on Lake Champlain. They also march in a parade with their muzzleloaders, flintlocks and black powder rifles and camp on the grounds of the local historic museum.
> 
> ...




But....but.....Clayton and the others keep telling us they don't want to ban all of our guns....just the ones they don't like, the ones they don't think we should have, the ones they decide we really don't need, the ones that are...well....guns......

But don't tell them that they want to ban and confiscate guns....that's just crazy talk...


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## 2aguy (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Boy if the NFA bothers you , you've been at this a LOOOOOONG time.
> 
> May I ask why you might need a fully automatic gun?  Do you have some sort of plan for its use?




If your leftist buddies have no intention of going full socialist and filling mass graves with innocent people...then why do you want to take guns away from us so much?


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> If your leftist buddies have no intention of going full socialist and filling mass graves with innocent people...then why do you want to take guns away from us so much?


Fuck you


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> If your leftist buddies have no intention of going full socialist and filling mass graves with innocent people...then why do you want to take guns away from us so much?


I have never wanted to take someone’s guns as much as you make me want to take yours.  I hope the local police have you on a watch list


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## night_son (Sep 10, 2022)

2aguy said:


> But....but.....Clayton and the others keep telling us they don't want to ban all of our guns....just the ones they don't like, the ones they don't think we should have, the ones they decide we really don't need, the ones that are...well....guns......
> 
> But don't tell them that they want to ban and confiscate guns....that's just crazy talk...



What the democrats—and many republican politicians as well—are doing is passing anti-2A regulations which, while not exactly outright bans on firearm ownership, so severely regulate what a citizen can and cannot do with their guns that they may as well *be straight up* bans. 

I grew up on a nearly 1000 acre thickly forested property in northern Maryland. From about the age of nine or ten I followed my great grandfather's and grandfather's long tradition of shooting freely on the property. That was late 70's to late 80's. During that time no one batted an eyelash over the sound of gunfire emanating from the area. Of course, the land was still fairly remote at the time but there were neighbors with half a mile, mostly farmers. We'd set up targets wherever, shoot at old rusted out cars both out in the open and in the woods, and hunted pheasant, deer, squirrel, rabbit and whatever else with absolute abandon. Those were amazing years, years I never realized at the time would be so incredibly unique—and brief—in my life. 

Nowadays, shooting on the same property is very risky. Maryland has imposed a plethora of anti-gun laws which, if violated, could land one in the slammer for some time—just for practicing one's second amendment rights while harming no one. Shot spotters have been installed all around that county now. If one discharges a gun, even on one's property, the county police will come running—at least to see what's going on. Thus, before one fires a shot he had better be sure he has paid for and is in possession of the proper NFA tax stamps, if he is running SBRs or suppressors or whatever else the government has deemed taboo. 

We live in the central PA mountains now, on a large semi-remote property which borders thousands of acres of state game land. Despite meeting PA law for shooting safely on one's property—I often hesitate to do so because a number of our neighbors rent their homes out to tourists and you never know who's going to object to the (distant) crack of gunfire or how they'll react. Luckily we have a long basement/garage running under our home, half of which is unfinished and makes for a great 15 yard indoor range. Even shooting in the basement, however, gives me the willies—because you never know who might be hiking through our woods or on land that borders it. 

And don't get me started on truck guns. When I was growing up, again in the 70's and 80's, everyone and their uncle's cousin had a gun rack in their pick up truck back window, and it was usually holding up a rifle and a shotgun. People back then did not shoot at each other driving down the road—but it was damn comforting to have a carbine or shotgun handy if one ran into some kind of trouble away from home. Nowadays, the insane state and federal regulations on transporting a modern carbine or AR pistol alone could get you into years of prison time. 

None of it makes any sense. ALL modern and recent gun laws are directly aimed at neutering the law abiding citizen's ability to protect himself, his family and his property.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 10, 2022)

night_son said:


> None of it makes any sense. ALL modern and recent gun laws are directly aimed at neutering the law abiding citizen's ability to protect himself, his family and his property.



It doesn't make any sense?  You would do better in the debate if you tried to at least understand the position of the opposition.  You guys don't.  All you have is a cartoon view.

We all understand you like guns.  None of us actually think you are bad people on average for loving your guns, guns are cool!  And useful tools.

The problem as our side sees it is that the number of guns is simply TOO HIGH.  It increases the probability that guns will diffuse out into the hands of those who would do harm.

Think about the Sudafed restrictions we have.  Even if you have a horrible set of allergies or whatever you can only buy so many Sudafeds.  this is to ensure it isn't "diverted" to illegal usage (meth manufacturing).  But the rules hamper the actions of law-abiding good people.

Guns are kind of like that.  The fact that so many gun lovers can't understand that point says more about their ability to think critically and understand the other side.

You WILL LOSE in the long run if you don't work to understand the side that is working against you.  You will.


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## Darkwind (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Fuck you


Look who is losing their shit now.


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## JGalt (Sep 10, 2022)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know, there isn't a single link or mention of the actual gun law that was passed, or what it concerns exactly in the OP's link.  Just a gun blog bitching about what they think is a new restriction on guns.
> 
> No, the guns carried in the reenactment wouldn't be prohibited or banned.  The law specifically talks about realistic looking guns that are used in the commission of a crime.
> 
> ...



The firearms used by reenactors are not props. They are invariably working, firing reproductions of the weapons that were used in those periods.

More details about the law here:

New gun laws raise concern for Battle of Plattsburgh reenactments


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## Cellblock2429 (Sep 10, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Another fine example of the left erasing Constitutional rights and American history, one piece at a time.
> 
> "During the annual Battle of Plattsburgh commemoration, re-enactors from New York, Canada and the Northeast demonstrate the ground battles that occurred as a naval battle took place simultaneously on Lake Champlain. They also march in a parade with their muzzleloaders, flintlocks and black powder rifles and camp on the grounds of the local historic museum.
> 
> ...


/——-/ Remember when libtards said the 2nd Amendment only covered flintlocks and black powder guns?  Well gun grabbers what do you say now?


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## JGalt (Sep 10, 2022)

I;m not sure about Nrw York law but at the Federal level in the US, all black powder rifles, muskets, shotguns and pistols that do not accept a metallic cartridge are considered antique weaponry. Even if they are modern production. *This means they are not regulated by the Federal government in any way. *

That means that on a federal level, they can be bought and sold with no background check, they can be shipped through the mail with no restrictions, and prohibited persons can legally possess them.

https://www.atf.gov/file/56421/download


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## martybegan (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Boy you guys sure are quick to defend guns.
> 
> If only you cared about people as much.



Like mayors in Democratic cities?


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## martybegan (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> You guys jump up and down and scream and stamp your feet at even the HINT that someone somewhere might want a gun not fired and you lose your shit.
> 
> 20-40 little kids get their heads blown apart in a shooting and all you have are "thotz-n-prayerz".
> 
> Sorry, your values are skewed.



Kind of like banning bail for 2nd degree murder as they just did in Illinois?


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Seriously?  This is worthy of certiorari at the Supreme Court?  Really?
> 
> I mean, yeah, it's probably a bit silly to ban the use of guns by reenactors, especially the kind of slow olde timey guns they have.  This is a simple case of overreach by a small group of lawmakers.
> 
> If I were you I'd save the diapers and pissing your pants over something for a bigger battle. This isn't a hill worth dying on.


This is absolutely worthy of a Supreme Court appearance.  It's very winnable.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 10, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Boy you guys sure are quick to defend guns.
> 
> If only you cared about people as much.


It's you boys who want to defund the police.  That's what leading to the national crime wave.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> It's you boys who want to defund the police.  That's what leading to the national crime wave.



That's because you don't understand what the "Defund the Police" movement ACTUALLY was about.

You just like the cartoon extremist lies.

It's like taking the neo-nazi wing of the GOP and painting the whole GOP with it.  Just because your president, Trump, loved neonazis doesn't mean YOU are a neo-nazi (necessarily)


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> That's because you don't understand what the "Defund the Police" movement ACTUALLY was about.
> 
> You just like the cartoon extremist lies.
> 
> It's like taking the neo-nazi wing of the GOP and painting the whole GOP with it.  Just because your president, Trump, loved neonazis doesn't mean YOU are a neo-nazi (necessarily)


Tell us what it's really about, then.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Tell us what it's really about, then.



I will!  But you'll ignore it like the Republicunt you are.  

For the rational middle of the party it means that we put more funding into social services and emergency mental health and crisis intervention experts.  Police are well trained and extremely important for certain things.  Not all things.

IF we have more trained mental health workers out there (by shifting SOME funding from the straight up beat-cop over to this as well) we will have fewer people in mental crises who get gunned down.

So go ahead and tell us how you don't care about that and that you prefer the extremist cartoon view, Republicunt


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## Cellblock2429 (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I will!  But you'll ignore it like the Republicunt you are.
> 
> For the rational middle of the party it means that we put more funding into social services and emergency mental health and crisis intervention experts.  Police are well trained and extremely important for certain things.  Not all things.
> 
> ...


/———/ I can’t stop laughing..








						How Democrats went from defund to refund the police
					

As crime rates rise ahead of the midterms, Black mayors of the nation's largest cities are leading the call to crack down on lawlessness.




					www.nbcnews.com


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I will!  But you'll ignore it like the Republicunt you are.
> 
> For the rational middle of the party it means that we put more funding into social services and emergency mental health and crisis intervention experts.  Police are well trained and extremely important for certain things.  Not all things.
> 
> ...



Calling me names proves you knew you're full of shit before you offered you explanation.

But, you confirmed that I'm right: the Democrats have defunded the police and the crime stats have proven it to be a catastrophic failure.


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## toobfreak (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> NY Gov. Hochul’s new gun law prohibits historical reenactor's muzzleloaders, flintlocks, black powder rifles​



Damn.  What am I going to do with this flintlock I just bought to hold up banks with?


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Calling me names proves you knew you're full of shit before you offered you explanation.



LOL.  Republicunt.



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> But, you confirmed that I'm right: the Democrats have defunded the police and the crime stats have proven it to be a catastrophic failure.



You did ignore what I wrote!  I knew it!

YOU GUYS LOVE TO LIE!

You can't tell the truth.

You are inherently dishonest.

REpublicunt.

Maybe you're just a ****.


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## Flash (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I mean, yeah, it's probably a bit silly to ban the use of guns by reenactors,


It is silly and illegal to ban any firearm seeing that the Constitution says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not infringed.


Of course we all know that the Libtard Moon Bats are idiots so they are liable to do anything.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

Flash said:


> It is silly and illegal to ban any firearm seeing that the Constitution says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not infringed.



God you drama queens and your precious "rights".  Like you give a flying fuck about anything else in the Constitution.

NO ONE IS TRYING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS, LOON!

Jeezus.  You really SHOULD have your guns confiscated because you are dangerous with your unhinged paranoia.

LOL.

CLutch your pearls little girl!


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> Damn.  What am I going to do with this flintlock I just bought to hold up banks with?



You could start a revolution with that thing and overthrow a tyrant. It's worked before.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> God you drama queens and your precious "rights".  Like you give a flying fuck about anything else in the Constitution.
> 
> NO ONE IS TRYING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS, LOON!
> 
> ...


The fuck they aren't trying to take our guns.  Now, the credit card companies are doing the government's dirty work for them and tracking gun and ammunition purchases.

Anyone that says they aren't trying to take our guns is either lying, or stupid.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> The fuck they aren't trying to take our guns.



Clutch those pearls, Ernestine!



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Now, the credit card companies are doing the government's dirty work for them and tracking gun and ammunition purchases.



At least SOMEONE is.  You guys like to keep it on the DL about who has what.  Which makes it kinda questionable.  What are you planning on doing with your guns?  Hmmmm.  



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Anyone that says they aren't trying to take our guns is either lying, or stupid.



There's a difference between wanting to put restrictions on your guns and taking them away.  The fact that you lot act like little screeching TODDLERS when anyone so much as LOOKS at your guns is enough to know you guys aren't adult enough for them.

Yes, even you law abiding doofuses (doofi?) are a danger.  Any one of you could click over one day and do something horrible.  You can't promise you won't.  And given your usual emotional state of terror and threat you are actually probably more of a danger to the people around you than you are some "savior".


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> At least SOMEONE is.  You guys like to keep it on the DL about who has what.  Which makes it kinda questionable.  What are you planning on doing with your guns?  Hmmmm.



Sure, because a firearms registry is illegal.  There's literally a law against it.

What am I planning on doing?  None of your's, nor the government's fucking business, until there's evidence that I've committed a crime.

See, that's why this credit card tracking scheme will get struck down in court.  The credit card companies are going to report "suspicious activity" that isn't illegal and they're going to get their asses sued off for making illegal reports to law enforcement.


Cardinal Carminative said:


> Yes, even you law abiding doofuses (doofi?) are a danger.  Any one of you could click over one day and do something horrible.  You can't promise you won't.  And given your usual emotional state of terror and threat you are actually probably more of a danger to the people around you than you are some "savior".


And when someone snaps, lock his ass up.  Until then, our system is designed for you to shut the fuck up and mind your own goddamn business.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Sure, because a firearms registry is illegal.  There's literally a law against it.



Yeah and if someone were to suggest it, you lot would squeal.  You squeal about EVERYTHING.

You didn't learn what the rest of us did:  YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOU HOBBY.  There is nothing free, even for simpletons like you.



Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> What am I planning on doing?  None of your's, nor the government's fucking business, until there's evidence that I've committed a crime.



That's sobering.


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Yeah and if someone were to suggest it, you lot would squeal.  You squeal about EVERYTHING.
> 
> You didn't learn what the rest of us did:  YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOU HOBBY.  There is nothing free, even for simpletons like you.
> 
> ...



So what the fuck are you going to do about it? Nothing?

I thought so, now go away.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> So what the fuck are you going to do about it? Nothing?



What can I do?  I vote for politicians who lose their spine the minute the NRA lobbyist wanders into the room, his pockets stuffed with _your_ cash to give to my legislator.

We're fucked because you unhinged, obsessed ammosexuals can't handle anyone even thinking about your guns.



JGalt said:


> I thought so, now go away.



Sorry, "John Galt" (lol, I bet you really are a John Galt...and like all adolescent boys it's all in your head!) but I'm not going anywhere.

You'll have to have someone threatening your guns.  To keep you awake.

Some day we'll get 'em, too!  That's the coolest thing about this all! You guys have no sense of strategy!  It's funny to watch you.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Yeah and if someone were to suggest it, you lot would squeal.  You squeal about EVERYTHING.
> 
> You didn't learn what the rest of us did:  YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOU HOBBY.  There is nothing free, even for simpletons like you.
> 
> ...


When I cause harm, lock my ass up.  As long as I don't cause harm, STFU and mind your business.


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> What can I do?  I vote for politicians who lose their spine the minute the NRA lobbyist wanders into the room, his pockets stuffed with _your_ cash to give to my legislator.
> 
> We're fucked because you unhinged, obsessed ammosexuals can't handle anyone even thinking about your guns.
> 
> ...



You aren't going to get shit. The NRA even has control over the Democrats.  Whatever gun legislation they do get passed, is just a bone to throw to you people.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> When I cause harm, lock my ass up.  As long as I don't cause harm, STFU and mind your business.



Your ignorance is kind of harmful.

It's like you guys don't understand concepts like "probability" or "odds" which is funny because I bet you go to Vegas every so often.

There's a topic in drug enforcement called "Diversion".  It's when a legal prescription drug gets diverted to an illegal application or "sale".  If you have a LOT of something the chances of diversion grow very high.

Same with guns.  So there are drugs out there you can't get too much or too many of at any one time.  This keeps diversion down.  Guns are the same.

The more guns yahoos like you get the higher the probability that someone will steal one or it will get otherwise misappropriated completely without you knowing it.

You are like a disease vector.  Sure you can't easily pass on the disease but if you sit there and just pump out spores all day from your supparating pus-filled wounds maybe some will get on someone else and spread your infection.

Hope that explains it, but I know you didn't understand it.  The WORDS were too big!


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> You aren't going to get shit. The NRA even has control over the Democrats.  Whatever gun legislation they do get passed, is just a bone to throw to you people.



Guess we'll see.

(You are one of those anti-strategists aren't you?)


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Guess we'll see.
> 
> (You are one of those anti-strategists aren't you?)



I have no strategy except to shoot some sonofabitch in the face if I determine he's a threat to myself of my family. I've carried every day for 12 years: Glock 19 with 15 in the magazine and one in the chamber, and two spare 15-round magazines. That's my "life insurance policy." I've carried to weddings, funerals, family gatherings, churches, anywhere where it's not prohibited. Sometimes I'll even put my body armor, AK-47, and a few magazines in the truck if I'm going to the city. Never know what's going to happen these days, so it's best to be prepared.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> I have no strategy except to shoot some sonofabitch in the face if I determine he's a threat to myself of my family. I


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


>



Yeah, that's what criminals think, up until they find themselves on the ground bleeding out.

Here: Does this trigger you?


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Your ignorance is kind of harmful.
> 
> It's like you guys don't understand concepts like "probability" or "odds" which is funny because I bet you go to Vegas every so often.
> 
> ...


Stop defunding the fucking police, stop letting criminals walk immediately after they're booked and the crime rate will go down.  Law abiding gun owners aren't the problem.  Anyone who says we are is either lying, or stupid.


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

More triggering.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Another fine example of the left erasing Constitutional rights and American history, one piece at a time.
> 
> "During the annual Battle of Plattsburgh commemoration, re-enactors from New York, Canada and the Northeast demonstrate the ground battles that occurred as a naval battle took place simultaneously on Lake Champlain. They also march in a parade with their muzzleloaders, flintlocks and black powder rifles and camp on the grounds of the local historic museum.
> 
> ...


This is a lie.

The recent gun legislation does not prohibit historical re-enactments to take place with period firearms.

“Governor Hochul passed new public safety laws to protect New Yorkers and keep them safe from gun violence. These laws allow historical re-enactments to occur, and we will work with legislators and local law enforcement to ensure these events can legally and safely proceed.”









						Will new gun law prevent reenactments at Battle of Plattsburgh celebration?
					

The Battle of Plattsburgh celebration kicked off Thursday, but a new gun law could cause problems. Our Kelly O'Brien explains why the battle may be missing from this year's events.




					www.wcax.com


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> They're lying. They also claimed homosexuality and transgenderism had nothing to do with pedophilia.


You’re a liar, like most on the right.

There’s nothing in the legislation that prohibits historical reenactments with period firearms.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is a lie.
> 
> The recent gun legislation does not prohibit historical re-enactments to take place with period firearms.
> 
> ...


This part, 

"we will work with legislators and local law enforcement to ensure these events can legally and safely proceed.”

is what's wrong with your defense of this illegal law.

If the law doesn't affect reenactments, then there's no "working with legislators and local law enforcement" to be done.

Fact is, it does affect reenactments and the governor's office is lying to cover their asses because they passed an illegal law.

The irony?  Anti-gunners are always going on about how the 2nd Amendment only applies to muskets and now, the anti-gunners outlawed muskets... 🤣


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> You’re a liar, like most on the right.
> 
> There’s nothing in the legislation that prohibits historical reenactments with period firearms.


What if the living historians are portraying a later period that requires the use of repeating weapons that fire metallic cartridges?  Then what?


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

Since this is a gun thread, how about some pretty pictures of the guns I own?



















































Shit. I'm not even getting started.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Since this is a gun thread, how about some pretty pictures of the guns I own?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A Belgian Browning??


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## JGalt (Sep 11, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> A Belgian Browning??



Stevens Model 520. It's a Browning patent and is a takedown model. Some day I'll find a stock for it.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 11, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Stevens Model 520. It's a Browning patent and is a takedown model. Some day I'll find a stock for it.


Oh cool.  Never heard of that one.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Nope.  Not buying it.  ALmost 40 dead little kids....


There you go again, standing on the bodies and bathing in the blood of innocnt childdren as a means to push your mindless aganda.
Textbook sociopathic behavior.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> There you go again, standing on the bodies and bathing in the blood of innocnt childdren as a means to push your mindless aganda.
> Textbook sociopathic behavior.



Ummmm, I'm not the one on here worshipping at the alter of the almighty gun.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Ummmm, I'm not the one on here worshipping at the alter of the almighty gun.


No - you're the one selling dead kids as a means to push a mindless agenda.
Textbook sociopathic behavior.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 12, 2022)

What do you call it when the state and industry collaborate to push the state's agenda?
Hints:
-It starts with an "F"
-It was popular in Europe from the 1920s until 1945


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> No - you're the one selling dead kids as a means to push a mindless agenda.
> Textbook sociopathic behavior.



Ammosexual.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Ammosexual.


Why does insulting people make you feel better?


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Why does insulting people make you feel better?



For the same reason it feels good to you!


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> For the same reason it feels good to you!


Ohh...  you still think you were insulted.
Well, I can't be held responsible for your willful failure to understand.

So, again:
Why does insulting people make you feel better?        
Maybe you don;t know--  maybe it just does, so you just do it?
There's no harm in admitting that.


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## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 12, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Ohh...  you still think you were insulted.
> Well, I can't be held responsible for your willful failure to understand.
> 
> So, again:
> ...



I do it for the same reason you do!


----------



## M14 Shooter (Sep 12, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> I do it for the same reason you do!


Which is...?


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## Vagabond63 (Sep 13, 2022)

ABikerSailor said:


> You know, there isn't a single link or mention of the actual gun law that was passed, or what it concerns exactly in the OP's link.  Just a gun blog bitching about what they think is a new restriction on guns.
> 
> No, the guns carried in the reenactment wouldn't be prohibited or banned.  The law specifically talks about realistic looking guns that are used in the commission of a crime.
> 
> ...


When I read the OP, I thought, "you've got to be kidding me" Even in the UK our reenactors can use muskets to fire black powder blanks at shows, they just need at least one person in the unit to have a shotgun licence to "supervise". Glad to know the OP was spouting BS, thanks.


----------



## Cardinal Carminative (Sep 13, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Which is...?



Don't you know why you insult people?  That's weird considering how often you do it.


----------



## JGalt (Sep 13, 2022)

Vagabond63 said:


> When I read the OP, I thought, "you've got to be kidding me" Even in the UK our reenactors can use muskets to fire black powder blanks at shows, they just need at least one person in the unit to have a shotgun licence to "supervise". Glad to know the OP was spouting BS, thanks.



Not BS. Some reenactors have already cancelled their events.

"The new firearms law passed by the State of New York and effective September 1st changed more than the handgun permit requirements. Also added are prohibitions against possession of many types of firearms in 'sensitive locations' which include streets, sidewalks, parks and most public locations," the event organizers posted on Facebook on Sept. 4.

"Black powder weapons are not excepted from this ban. Possession of a firearm in public is now a felony," the group said.

"After obtaining a legal opinion, it was determined that we could not continue with holding the event this year. Participants could be subject to arrest. So the event is canceled this year. If the law is modified or overturned we hope to return in the future." 

Under the law signed by Gov. Kathy Hochul (D) on July 1, so-called "sensitive areas" include all public parks with few exceptions, airports, houses of worship, government buildings, and all private property except where the owners have posted signage permitting lawful gun owners to carry their firearms. There are limited exemptions for current and retired law enforcement, peace officers, licensed security guards, active-duty military personnel, hunters, and some government employees.

The statute is broad and does not contain exemptions for ceremonial purposes, like Memorial Day or Veterans Day parades, or historical demonstrations like Civil War reenactments.

The Allegheny Highlands Council of Scouts BSA, which helps run the event, has offered refunds to the scouts and families who had registered to participate, the Olean Times Herald reported."

Civil War reenactment canceled because of New York's sweeping gun control law


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 13, 2022)

Cardinal Carminative said:


> Don't you know why you insult people?


Thus, your admission that you have no idea why I supposedly insult people.
Therefore, your statement:
_I do it for the same reason you do!   _ 
Is a lie.

So, again:
Why does insulting people make you feel better?


----------



## Vagabond63 (Sep 14, 2022)

JGalt said:


> Not BS. Some reenactors have already cancelled their events.
> 
> "The new firearms law passed by the State of New York and effective September 1st changed more than the handgun permit requirements. Also added are prohibitions against possession of many types of firearms in 'sensitive locations' which include streets, sidewalks, parks and most public locations," the event organizers posted on Facebook on Sept. 4.
> 
> ...


Is this the law you are talking about? Governor Hochul Signs Gun Safety Legislation Strengthening Bans on Realistic-looking Imitation Weapons Used to Commit Crimes.


----------



## JGalt (Sep 14, 2022)

Vagabond63 said:


> Is this the law you are talking about? Governor Hochul Signs Gun Safety Legislation Strengthening Bans on Realistic-looking Imitation Weapons Used to Commit Crimes.



You're not even close. It was the law the state of New York passed, immediately after the Supreme Court's decision that struck down the state's concealed carry law, as being unconstitutional. The law signed by Hochul designated “sensitive locations” where concealed carrying remains prohibited, among other changes. Some of those "sensitive locations" are places where reenactments have taken place for scores of years. The way the law is written, reenactors are not allowed to carry a firearm, a musket loading type rifle, black powder rifle, or flintlock rifle.

The law is Senate Bill s51001. The one you're referring to is S.687/A.3998

Here is the bill. Look for yourself:

https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/s51001


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## TroglocratsRdumb (Sep 14, 2022)

Why do the Democrats fear people being able to defend themselves to much?


----------



## JGalt (Sep 14, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> Why do the Democrats fear people being able to defend themselves to much?



Because muggers, robbers, rapists, and car jackers are part of the Democrat voting base. The Democrats don't like legally-armed citizens shooting any of them out of self defense, because that would mean fewer votes.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 14, 2022)

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> Why do the Democrats fear people being able to defend themselves to much?


Democrats know they plan to do things the people will shoot them for.
Thus, gun control is meant to protect the state, not the people.


----------

