# Trump now owns healthcare, and the GOP will need to go home



## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame. 

Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.

This is probably the saddest day in the US history.  Taking healthcare away from millions to give tax cuts to the wealthy. 

Now Mike Pence needs to break the tie and we know what his vote will be.

Its over and the GOP is over.


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## OldLady (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...


WHAT HAPPENED?  What was the vote?  I thought it was just a vote to proceed?


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

They just voted to continue a debate about a nonexistent bill. Waste of time. A vote to debate? WTF?


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...


Total libtarding nonsense. None of your drivel is true.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

debbiedowner said:


> They just voted to continue a debate about a nonexistent bill. Waste of time. A vote to debate? WTF?



Gives them the right to change whatever they want.  It the beginning of the end. Face facts. When have the GOP worked with the Dems , never.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Total libtarding nonsense. None of your drivel is true.



So what did they just vote on, then?


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> 
> > Total libtarding nonsense. None of your drivel is true.
> ...


Nothing the liberals will tell the truth about.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> 
> > Total libtarding nonsense. None of your drivel is true.
> ...



To debate what is in the health bill or in the new one.  In reality to dismantle the ACA.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Nothing the liberals will tell the truth about.



OK, so what did they just vote on, then?


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> The Derp said:
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Good then. It needs to be gone. No way in hell is it legal to force a tax on me if I don't have insurance.


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> > Nothing the liberals will tell the truth about.
> ...


Russia.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> To debate what is in the health bill or in the new one.  In reality to dismantle the ACA.



_*I*_ know that...I just wanted to see what that guy thought the vote was.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Russia.



Why bother responding if that's all you're gonna write?  Yeesh.  Get over yourself.


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## Hugo Furst (Jul 25, 2017)

Until the Republicans pass something, and Trump signs it...

It's still Obamacare


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Good then. It needs to be gone. No way in hell is it legal to force a tax on me if I don't have insurance.



Individual mandates are necessary if you're guaranteeing universal coverage.  You're not opposed to the mandate, you're opposed to affordable health insurance.


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> > Good then. It needs to be gone. No way in hell is it legal to force a tax on me if I don't have insurance.
> ...


Right, you know exactly what I'm opposed to.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> > Good then. It needs to be gone. No way in hell is it legal to force a tax on me if I don't have insurance.
> ...



They will get rid of mandate, ind and employer, cost sharing , expanded Medicaid, increase HSA's, whatever the GOP wants. Trump is going to sign it.

Basically it gives permission for the GOP to do whatever they want. Pence is the tie breaker.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Right, you know exactly what I'm opposed to.



Thing is, Conservatives have no idea what it is they actually want.  All they know is what they don't want, and that's a pretty childish way to go about policy.  Individual mandates are necessary if you are looking to keep premiums low.  The more healthy people that pay into the premium pool, the lower the premium for that pool.  That's how insurance works.  Then, when those healthy people become unhealthy, the new healthy people cover their costs.  And the system repeats itself as such.  That's how it's sustainable.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> They will get rid of mandate, ind and employer, cost sharing , expanded Medicaid, increase HSA's, whatever the GOP wants. Trump is going to sign it.
> Basically it gives permission for the GOP to do whatever they want. Pence is the tie breaker.



Well, they're gonna have to go to conference now, and those conference hearings are public.  So everyone is going to see the nuts and bolts of what Conservatives want the system to be.  It's no wonder Conservatives are _*petrified*_ of town halls.  On NPR this morning, one of my senators (Purdue) tried to say that town halls weren't his "style".  He says he meets with "constituents" privately.  Gee, wonder who those "constituents" are (*cough* lobbyists *cough*).


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> > Right, you know exactly what I'm opposed to.
> ...


Riiight. You know exactly what we want. Typical buttstain liberal. You don't know jack man.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

OldLady said:


> The Derp said:
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Trump is on TV, he said its the beginning of the end of the ACA, they will have a plan in 2 weeks.


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## OldLady (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> The Derp said:
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A vote to debate is not a vote to approve.  There are still two firm holdouts.  All it takes is one more senator who doesn't want to go home and face a screaming constituency.
Stay strong.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Riiight. You know exactly what we want. Typical buttstain liberal. You don't know jack man.



So if I have you wrong, then what is it you want?  And please don't say "free market".  I'm done with platitudes.


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## SassyIrishLass (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...



It was a vote to allow floor debate, good grief


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## Defiant1 (Jul 25, 2017)

We want insurance companies to be free from government interference.
To be able to offer plans for that benefit the majority of the country.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> We want insurance companies to be free from government interference.
> To be able to offer plans for that benefit the majority of the country.



Which they didn't do before the ACA, so why would they magically do that now?


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

SassyIrishLass said:


> It was a vote to allow floor debate, good grief



Floor debate on what?  That "what" always seems to be unknown, even after 7 years of screeching and 60+ repeal votes.


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
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> > It was a vote to allow floor debate, good grief
> ...


Did you forget what we are talking about already?


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## SassyIrishLass (Jul 25, 2017)

Repeal Obunglescare and get government the hell out of it


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Did you forget what we are talking about already?



The non-existent Conservative replacement for Obamacare.  The thing you guys had 7 years to work on, but for some reason didn't.  How come?  What the fuck have you assholes been doing the last 7 years besides posturing?  Surely, you could have come up with a plan but you didn't.  So all that Obamacare whining was posturing, wasn't it?


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## Defiant1 (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Defiant1 said:
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> > We want insurance companies to be free from government interference.
> ...



It would be fine if we would go back to pre ACA and Trump could remove more regulations.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Repeal Obunglescare and get government the hell out of it



Government out of what?  It doesn't seem like you even know what you're talking about.


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## SassyIrishLass (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
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> > Repeal Obunglescare and get government the hell out of it
> ...



Dude I don't know who the fuck you are but cease annoying me.

Government would fuck up a wet dream and that's what the dems did with healthcare. It's a disaster


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> It would be fine if we would go back to pre ACA and Trump could remove more regulations.



Pre-ACA 48 million people had no insurance, premiums rose at faster rates than they do today, medical bankruptcies were 60% of all bankruptcies (the other 40% were Trump's...LOL), insurance companies could kick you off your insurance plan for no reason and then blacklist you among all other insurers, insurance companies would routinely deny claims, and catastrophic plans had lifetime caps which means they weren't catastrophic plans at all.

That's the system you want to go back to?  Why?


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Until the Republicans pass something, and Trump signs it...
> 
> It's still Obamacare



Not really HHS secretary has changed some things that don't need legislation.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

SassyIrishLass said:


> Government would fuck up a wet dream and that's what the dems did with healthcare. It's a disaster



How would it do that if all it would do in a single payer system is administration, which is all insurance companies do today?


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## Hugo Furst (Jul 25, 2017)

debbiedowner said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
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> 
> > Until the Republicans pass something, and Trump signs it...
> ...


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> The Derp said:
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More than likely you're right and then the crying will start when those rates don't go down. Not to mention the loss of jobs in the insurance industry which has already started with Molina yesterday, laying off 1400 employees.


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

WillHaftawaite said:


> debbiedowner said:
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When did they start letting school children become moderators?


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

Imagine what they just did, left all patients and all insurance companies and health care industries not knowing any future.  It has disrupted the whole health care industry.


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## toobfreak (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...



Have to admit I'm disappointed in the Senate GOP.  McConnell is a feckless turd.  Paul Ryan is a two-faced backstabbing sneak.  Schumer has more influence than them.  They had 7 years to at least work out what they WOULD do if ever really given the chance to fix healthcare, and two and a half months after Trump won to get a plan agreed on.  These guys have produced NOTHING for the year 2017 and it just makes Trump look worse and feeds the media.

They are hurting themselves for 2018 and are proving to me once again that:

*A).* The GOP is the party of weak-kneed self-abuse.  Even when they are in power, they don't seem to control their own destiny.
*B).* They shy away from every opportunity to take the offensive.  Even with every reason to go on the attack against Obama, Hillary and many other people, charges and accusations, they sit on their fucking hands.  Trump has a point:  Sessions didn't need to recuse himself!  Not after what Lynch did on the tarmac!  He threw Trump to the wolves looking after his own career.  And where is Sessions now?  Apparently Trump has been wanting him to go after Hillary for her emails, uranium, Foundation and other crimes, and again where is Sessions?  Nowhere but looking after his career.  Trump needs to force him out, but not before kicking the floppy-eared bastard in the balls.


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> The Derp said:
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He can't erase state regs.


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

This must just be their way of getting Trump off their backs while they try to figure out something, but the uncertainty is not at all good.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> > Good then. It needs to be gone. No way in hell is it legal to force a tax on me if I don't have insurance.
> ...



As long as the GOP is in , there is not going to be universal care.  I now have to worry if my husband gets cancer tomorrow, with the ACA I didn't have to worry.  Insurance companies can charge what they want for pre existing conditions or refuse to cover you.  (before the ACA and it will go back).


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## miketx (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> Imagine what they just did, left all patients and all insurance companies and health care industries not knowing any future.  It has disrupted the whole health care industry.


You can't tell the truth can you? Obama care has not been repealed. No such thing as "trump care" exists! This shit is the end result of obama. Stop lying!


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

I wonder how many in this thread are under 65 and have either individual or group insurance?


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> Penelope said:
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> > Imagine what they just did, left all patients and all insurance companies and health care industries not knowing any future.  It has disrupted the whole health care industry.
> ...




It's trumpcare with the administrations first change and that has happened.


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> Imagine what they just did, left all patients and all insurance companies and health care industries not knowing any future.  It has disrupted the whole health care industry.



It already did a few weeks ago with plan and rate filings.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

toobfreak said:


> Have to admit I'm disappointed in the Senate GOP.



The problem is that the Conservatives have no idea what health insurance is, what insurance companies actually do, and how they relate to health care delivery.  If they did, they'd see that insurance companies are completely extraneous to this and serve no purpose when it comes to health care.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

miketx said:


> You can't tell the truth can you? Obama care has not been repealed. No such thing as "trump care" exists! This shit is the end result of obama. Stop lying!



Dude...insurance companies are planning the 2018 enrollment _*now*_.  So what happens in DC has an effect on their business.


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## Coyote (Jul 25, 2017)

It's an insane way to do things...wtf?

Senators Vote To Proceed With Health Care Debate
With debate formally opened, senators will be able to freely offer amendments,* so nobody knows what the final product will look like. It's an unusual and perhaps unprecedented way to draft a bill that will affect millions of Americans and a large chunk of the economy*, to say the least. But McConnell said after the vote that "we'll finish at the end of the week."


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## Defiant1 (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Defiant1 said:
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> > It would be fine if we would go back to pre ACA and Trump could remove more regulations.
> ...



Don't start with the 48M.
There are very few, maybe 10M that really need assistance to get insurance. Those can be taken care of through different means.

Life happens.  You get sick, you die.

We can't live forever.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> Don't start with the 48M. There are very few, maybe 10M that really need assistance to get insurance. Those can be taken care of through different means.



How?  Magic and pixie dust?  And from where are you getting that 10M number?  Off the top of your head?  How do you reach that?  Show me the math.  Show your work, if you've done any (which I doubt greatly).




Defiant1 said:


> Life happens.  You get sick, you die. We can't live forever.



Wow.  How Christian of you.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

*The epitome of Conservative thought on health care:*



Defiant1 said:


> Life happens.  You get sick, you die




That's their plan.  Don't get sick.  And if you do get sick, please die quickly.

Conservative snowflakes screamed bloody murder when Alan Grayson said as much on the House floor, now you have Conservatives saying it anonymously on message boards.


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## Defiant1 (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Defiant1 said:
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> > Don't start with the 48M. There are very few, maybe 10M that really need assistance to get insurance. Those can be taken care of through different means.
> ...


I never claimed to be Christian.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> I never claimed to be Christian.



Right...you're just a lazy fuck.  Not sure that's any better.


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## Defiant1 (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Defiant1 said:
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> > I never claimed to be Christian.
> ...




No. I have a job.  I work.  
My employer provides insurance.
I have always had a job that provided for the needs of my family.
I wouldn't take a job that didn't.


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## The Derp (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> No. I have a job.  I work.
> My employer provides insurance.
> I have always had a job that provided for the needs of my family.
> I wouldn't take a job that didn't.



Well, many people aren't in that position and many companies don't provide health care for their workers.  Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> toobfreak said:
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> > Have to admit I'm disappointed in the Senate GOP.
> ...



Just billing and gate keepers.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> The Derp said:
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Really and when you get older and or your company decides to not give you insurance, or you get laid off or get ill and can't work. You do not know what tomorrow brings.


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## Defiant1 (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> Defiant1 said:
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Do you know what eskimos do?


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> Penelope said:
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No what?


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## PredFan (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...



You are right about the results but for the wrong reasons. the reason the GOP is going to get clobbered is because we didn't want "replace" we wanted "repeal" only. Now we have 0bamacare Lite with the same problems. It now has a different name: "Trumpcare". All of the people who would have lost their coverage, would have been bankrupted by illness, and all of the massive debt that would have accumulated under 0bamacare, will now happen under Trumpcare.

That plus the fact that the GOP is sitting on their hands and not supporting the President, is the GOP again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.


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## Defiant1 (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> Defiant1 said:
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They climb out on an ice floe.


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## RodISHI (Jul 25, 2017)

The Derp said:


> miketx said:
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> > Right, you know exactly what I'm opposed to.
> ...


Mandates are not keeping insurance rates low. If the lawyers wife wants to continue with her expensive cancer treatment she and hubby may have to sell that million dollar plus house and tell their kids that they will have to pay for their own college just like poor peoples children generally have to do.


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## edthecynic (Jul 25, 2017)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Until the Republicans pass something, and Trump signs it...
> It's still Obamacare


LIAR!
It hasn't been Obamacare since Don THE Con's EO his first day in office, it became Trumpcare the instant he signed the EO.
The GOP are now trying to replace Trumpcare with WealthCare.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

RodISHI said:


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Man you are a lost one. Obviously you do not understand insurance.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
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> > Until the Republicans pass something, and Trump signs it...
> ...



Yes its on Cspan 2, McConnels amendments are being read.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> Penelope said:
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Get lost, here is hoping you lose your job, and your kids need welfare. Smug people like you need to be taken down a notch to learn about life.   Your day is coming.


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## jillian (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...



they're still don't have a bill to vote on. this only allowed debate.

but that said.... they're losers and cowards who think no one will notice what they did if their divesting millions of people of health care won't go into effect until after the 2018 midterms.

morons....

but the pond scum who vote for them are bigger morons. 

I had kind of hoped that John mccain would do the right thing before he meets his mater. 

wasn't very mavericky, was he?


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

Defiant1 said:


> We want insurance companies to be free from government interference.
> To be able to offer plans for that benefit the majority of the country.



75 million people are on Medicaid. Got that.  A smaller and smaller no. of people have ins, through their workplace and expect it to be less and less.   The maj of people do not get HI by working.  Hopefully you wont for much longer either. Then you will see what its like.


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## Penelope (Jul 25, 2017)

jillian said:


> Penelope said:
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> > and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> ...



They are reading it on Cspan 2. They are not going to debate it with the dems.


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## jillian (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> jillian said:
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interesting given that the3 vote was only supposed to be to open it for debate. or at least that's how the lying treasonous loons were presenting it.


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## RodISHI (Jul 25, 2017)

Penelope said:


> RodISHI said:
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Obviously I understand it all to well. I actually considered selling some of it for a brief moment in time. Spent two days studying, spent the required two hundred bucks for that module, took the test and got a license for that specific type of insurance that I was considering being a sales person for with a possibility of expanding later after I checked it all out throughally. Spent one day with another agent and then came across his superior that accosted me in an attempt to steal my notes out of my hands.

I was also the one for years who determined which insurance my company would have for the employees and my own family. I also have a fairly decent line on the medical community and the pitfalls in that field too due to some fortunate and unfortunate circumstances. Insurance forced protection by the government onto people. It is racketeering made legal through legislative action. If you want it you should be able to buy it freely. If not and the legislators force you into buying it or else it is just another gangster type racketeering program legalized for a few can benefit off of other peoples labor and efforts.

edit for clarity; BTW, that insurance company offered to open up an office that they wanted me to run. I declined.


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## debbiedowner (Jul 25, 2017)

This is what was voted on to proceed to amendments:
https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/me...EAL7.19.17.pdf


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## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Mandates are not keeping insurance rates low.



Since the mandates, the growth in premiums has been less than it was prior to the ACA.  That's what I meant.  Mandates are necessary if you're guaranteeing universal coverage, which is what Trump and the GOP promised as they campaigned in 2016 and even in early 2017 once in office.  So by repealing Obamacare, they are breaking that major campaign promise.




RodISHI said:


> If the lawyers wife wants to continue with her expensive cancer treatment she and hubby may have to sell that million dollar plus house and tell their kids that they will have to pay for their own college just like poor peoples children generally have to do.



Why should someone go bankrupt, or lose their home, or drop out of school over something out of their control?  *Any *type of cancer treatment is expensive.


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## Penelope (Jul 26, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Penelope said:
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Good you didn't continue, as with the Marketplace you do not need a sales agent.  I am pro Gov healthcare because one can't trust the insurance companies.  We have been self insured for years and it has not been good, always having to worry about increases and cuts and getting diagnosed with anything for fear of being cut.


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## Penelope (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> RodISHI said:
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> > Mandates are not keeping insurance rates low.
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They need to raise the fine of the mandates then people would sign up. I agree, one does not get home ins when their house is on fire and auto ins. when they get a wreck.


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## Anathema (Jul 26, 2017)

Penelope said:


> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.



I'll clap when all forms of Government health services are done away with. 

[QUOTE="Penelope, post: 17792865, member: 50023"This is probably the saddest day in the US history.  Taking healthcare away from millions to give tax cuts to the wealthy.[/quote]

Healrhcare is not a right. It's a privilege. The tax cutsshoild go to everyone adter we shoild be repealing all forms of Government healthcare. 

[QUOTE="Penelope, post: 17792865, member: 50023"Its over and the GOP is over.[/QUOTE]

The GOP died last November when they were forced to run Trump because they refused to nominate a truly CONSERVATIVE alternative among 16 other options; only to realize thst Conservatives would not support a Moderate-Liberal Establishment GOP candidate for POTUS again.


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## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

*



			Trump now owns healthcare, and the GOP will need to go home
		
Click to expand...

*
The first thing that struck me about this thread was how refreshing it is to hear a democrat admit Obamacare is such a colossal nightmare and failure. Why else would you want to pawn it off on Trump? You couldn't even wait until it got repealed.... that's how awful Obamacare is  and you know it. As usual, the dems are over-playing their hand. 

Trump owns nothing here. This was a mandate by the people who voted in 2016. If you want to call restoring our freedom to purchase the healthcare insurance we want instead of being forced to buy a product we didn't want or ask for, after you lied and said we could keep our old plans, "kicking us off" then so be it. Try selling that one to the electorate. Likewise, good luck convincing people that eliminating the fine which you claimed wasn't a tax, as "lowering taxes for the wealthy" ....I doubt that lie flies either. But it will be fun watching you make hypocritical fools of yourselves in the midterms.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Anathema said:


> Healrhcare is not a right. It's a privilege. The tax cutsshoild go to everyone adter we shoild be repealing all forms of Government healthcare.



Except, of course, when it comes to you personally, right?  Like you expect us all to believe you won't go on Medicare when you become eligible.




Anathema said:


> The GOP died last November when they were forced to run Trump because they refused to nominate a truly CONSERVATIVE alternative among 16 other options; only to realize thst Conservatives would not support a Moderate-Liberal Establishment GOP candidate for POTUS again.



The only difference between Conservatives is the color of the turd polish.  You really expect us to believe Conservatives would have done anything differently under any of the other clowns vying for the nomination?  The Obamacare repeal plan is the one they tried to do in 2015 that Obama vetoed.  So WTF are you talking about?  Conservatives simply don't know what it is they actually want.


----------



## Penelope (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually the GOP has done everything to ruin the ACA since inception.  The ACA is not dying except in those GOP controlled states.  You do not want to pay for ins. then the mandate fine needs to get raised.

You do not get auto ins, after an accident or home ins when your house is on fire, maybe you try! I don't know.

We need a higher mandate and enforced, to the point of taking it out of your pay same as Child Support if you do not pay.  Oh the GOP wants the tax cut , big time.


----------



## Faun (Jul 26, 2017)

WillHaftawaite said:


> Until the Republicans pass something, and Trump signs it...
> 
> It's still Obamacare


Nope. Trump took ownership of it when he began dismantling it.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> The problem is that the Conservatives have no idea what health insurance is, what insurance companies actually do, and how they relate to health care delivery. If they did, they'd see that insurance companies are completely extraneous to this and serve no purpose when it comes to health care.



Nope... It's morons who yammer about covering pre-existing conditions who don't know what the fuck "insurance" is. It's the same idiots who don't comprehend that forcing everyone to purchase an all-inclusive, one size fits all healthcare insurance policy doesn't lower the cost of health care or make it more available.

Conservatives realize the best solution for most Americans is a patient-centric market based system and that we already have a solution for the poor and elderly, called Medicaid and Medicare.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> The first thing that struck me about this thread was how refreshing it is to hear a democrat admit Obamacare is such a colossal nightmare and failure.




That's not what they said.  Obamacare isn't a colossal nightmare, and all the GOP lies over the last 7 years proves it.  If Obamacare is this terrible, awful thing, how come in the seven years you all have been screeching for repeal, _*not one single viable replacement plan has been produced*_?  The reason is obvious; Conservatives didn't bank on getting control of DC and because they're lazy, uninspiring people, didn't bother to do the _*hard work*_ of coming up with an alternative.  That's because Conservatives are children...they don't know what they want, all they know is what they _*don't want*_.  Hence, no replacement plan despite 7 years of screeching like barnyard animals.




Boss said:


> Why else would you want to pawn it off on Trump? You couldn't even wait until it got repealed.... that's how awful Obamacare is  and you know it. As usual, the dems are over-playing their hand.



Because the actions Trump has taken to sabotage Obamacare fall on him and on Conservatives.  From Rubio's destruction of risk corridors (which is why some, but not all insurers leave exchanges), to Conservative red state death panels that refused to expand Medicaid, to Trump's HHS using money meant to promote enrollment to instead discourage it.  Conservatives made it clear their intent is to sabotage the law and take health care away from millions of people.  The only reason that makes any sense is that they are assholes.  Because it makes no sense economically, fiscally, or even politically to do what they're doing.




Boss said:


> Trump owns nothing here. This was a mandate by the people who voted in 2016. If you want to call restoring our freedom to purchase the healthcare insurance we want instead of being forced to buy a product we didn't want or ask for, after you lied and said we could keep our old plans, "kicking us off" then so be it. Try selling that one to the electorate. Likewise, good luck convincing people that eliminating the fine which you claimed wasn't a tax, as "lowering taxes for the wealthy" ....I doubt that lie flies either. But it will be fun watching you make hypocritical fools of yourselves in the midterms.



The fine is separate from the tax on the wealthy.  You don't even know the law you hate so much.  What a moron.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

Penelope said:


> Actually the GOP has done everything to ruin the ACA since inception.




Such as WHAT?


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> That's not what they said. Obamacare isn't a colossal nightmare, and all the GOP lies over the last 7 years proves it. If Obamacare is this terrible, awful thing, how come in the seven years you all have been screeching for repeal, _*not one single viable replacement plan has been produced*_? The reason is obvious; Conservatives didn't bank on getting control of DC and because they're lazy, uninspiring people, didn't bother to do the _*hard work*_ of coming up with an alternative. That's because Conservatives are children...they don't know what they want, all they know is what they _*don't want*_. Hence, no replacement plan despite 7 years of screeching like barnyard animals.




That' exactly what is being said, you're just too stupid to read between the lines. Why else is the OP so eager to lay healthcare at Trump's feet? It's because it's FUBAR and you know it. 

And for the fucking record... CONSERVATIVES don't control Congress!


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> Nope... It's morons who yammer about covering pre-existing conditions who don't know what the fuck "insurance" is. It's the same idiots who don't comprehend that forcing everyone to purchase an all-inclusive, one size fits all healthcare insurance policy doesn't lower the cost of health care or make it more available..



No, Boss,_* you*_ don't know what insurance is.  The reason you need essential benefits is to attract younger, healthier people whose premiums can be used to pay for the older, sicker people.  Then when those younger, healthier people get older and sicker, a new generation of younger, healthier people then pays for those older, sicker ones.  And so on and so forth.  *That is what health insurance is. * Insurance companies merely administrate reimbursement from that premium pool to your provider.  That's a process* you're not even a part of*, and has no bearing on how health care is delivered to you.  All private insurance does is _*restrict your choices*_.  You cannot see any doctor you want.  You have to first pick your insurance, _*and then *_you choose your doctor from those in that insurance network.  So who you can see and what procedures are covered is determined not by your doctor or you, but by an insurance company executive with no medical training.  Wouldn't it make more sense for you to see any doctor you want, all doctors are reimbursed at the same rate, and thus, they have to _*compete*_ for your care?  And how do they do that?  By improving outcomes and reducing costs.  A single payer levels the playing field for providers who then must compete for your care, which they don't do now.  Don't you want competition?  That's how you get competition, by leveling the playing field and forcing providers to improve outcomes and reduce costs in order to attract patients.




Boss said:


> Conservatives realize the best solution for most Americans is a patient-centric market based system and that we already have a solution for the poor and elderly, called Medicaid and Medicare.



So if Medicaid and Medicare work for the poor and elderly, why wouldn't they work for everyone else?


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> The fine is separate from the tax on the wealthy.



Nope... you're calling the repeal of the individual mandate a "reduced tax on the wealthy."


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> Actually the GOP has done everything to ruin the ACA since inception.
> Such as WHAT?



I can think of three things immediately:

1.  Rubio destroying the risk corridors
2.  Conservative red state death panels not expanding Medicaid
3.  Trump's HHS using money meant to promote enrollment, to discourage it instead.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> hat' exactly what is being said, you're just too stupid to read between the lines. Why else is the OP so eager to lay healthcare at Trump's feet? It's because it's UBAR and you know it.
> And for the fucking record... CONSERVATIVES don't control Congress!



It's laid at Trump's feet because his HHS was using money meant to promote enrollment, to discourage it instead.  Add to that the red state death panels that didn't expand Medicaid and Rubio destroying the risk corridors, and you see just who is responsible for what.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> No, Boss,_* you*_ don't know what insurance is. The reason you need essential benefits is to attract younger, healthier people whose premiums can be used to pay for the older, sicker people. Then when those younger, healthier people get older and sicker, a new generation of younger, healthier people then pays for those older, sicker ones. And so on and so forth. *That is what health insurance is. * Insurance companies merely administrate reimbursement from that premium pool to your provider. That's a process* you're not even a part of*, and has no bearing on how health care is delivered to you. All private insurance does is _*restrict your choices*_. You cannot see any doctor you want. You have to first pick your insurance, _*and then *_you choose your doctor from those in that insurance network. So who you can see and what procedures are covered is determined not by your doctor or you, but by an insurance company executive with no medical training. Wouldn't it make more sense for you to see any doctor you want, all doctors are reimbursed at the same rate, and thus, they have to _*compete*_ for your care? And how do they do that? By improving outcomes and reducing costs. A single payer levels the playing field for providers who then must compete for your care, which they don't do now. Don't you want competition? That's how you get competition, by leveling the playing field and forcing providers to improve outcomes and reduce costs in order to attract patients.




A-gain... you don't understand what "insurance" is. What YOU are describing is a massive WELFARE program.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> Nope... you're calling the repeal of the individual mandate a "reduced tax on the wealthy."



I never called it that, and whoever did was not accurate.  The mandate is separate from the taxes Conservatives are trying to cut for the wealthy and insurance companies.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the GOP has done everything to ruin the ACA since inception.
> ...



OP said "since inception" which, I believe, was 2009.  So what you need to do is carry your happy ass to thomas.gov and find the House and Senate bills passed by Republicans since 2009 that changes anything regarding ACA... I'll wait!


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> A-gain... you don't understand what "insurance" is. What YOU are describing is a massive WELFARE program.



My god...this is getting sad.  What I described is precisely what health insurance is.  You don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > Nope... you're calling the repeal of the individual mandate a "reduced tax on the wealthy."
> ...



Well, right now, no one is trying to do anything except repeal Obamacare. The other bills failed to pass.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > A-gain... you don't understand what "insurance" is. What YOU are describing is a massive WELFARE program.
> ...




Yes, it IS getting sad... you're a sad fella! You are describing a welfare program, not insurance.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> I never called it that, and whoever did was not accurate.



Seems to be an epidemic of not accurate shit being said lately.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> OP said "since inception" which, I believe, was 2009.  So what you need to do is carry your happy ass to thomas.gov and find the House and Senate bills passed by Republicans since 2009 that changes anything regarding ACA... I'll wait!



Everything I listed has happened since 2010, not 2009.  This is what I'm talking about when I say you people have no fucking clue.  You can't even get the basics of the law straight because you don't know anything about it.  As for Conservative efforts to undermine Obamacare:

Rubio destroyed the risk corridors in 2013
Conservative Red States have refused to expand Medicaid the entire time
Trump's HHS this past January was discouraging people to sign up


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> Yes, it IS getting sad... you're a sad fella! You are describing a welfare program, not insurance.



So what do you think health insurance is, then?  I'd love to hear that.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> Well, right now, no one is trying to do anything except repeal Obamacare. The other bills failed to pass.



Repealing Obamacare will cause 15 million people to lose insurance immediately, and premiums will increase by 20%, which is more than they increased each year during the ACA.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> So if Medicaid and Medicare work for the poor and elderly, why wouldn't they work for everyone else?




Well, aside from them being essentially bankrupt?  

Look... maybe one of these days, magic unicorns will appear from My Little Pony to bestow us with endless resources to provide cradle-to-grave health care for everyone and no one shall ever be sick again!  Until that happens, we're stuck with grim reality. I'm sorry... we can get you a juice box if that'll make it better.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 26, 2017)

Penelope said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > They just voted to continue a debate about a nonexistent bill. Waste of time. A vote to debate? WTF?
> ...



Campaign Finance Reform (McCain/Feingold), No Child Left Behind (Bush/Kennedy), just to name two. 

Today's political atmosphere makes it much more difficult.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it IS getting sad... you're a sad fella! You are describing a welfare program, not insurance.
> ...



All forms of insurance is essentially a gamble. Someone is willing to bet that you won't be sick and file a claim. The higher the risk is that you might file a claim, the higher you premiums and/or deductibles. At some point, you may not even be a risk they are willing to take at any cost. Pre-existing conditions completely nullifies the basic principles of insurance.


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is that the Conservatives have no idea what health insurance is, what insurance companies actually do, and how they relate to health care delivery. If they did, they'd see that insurance companies are completely extraneous to this and serve no purpose when it comes to health care.
> ...



No, it's morons who don't know obamacare was not one size fits all. Many companies offered several plans in each medal level. NO you don't know insurance.


----------



## Boss (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > Well, right now, no one is trying to do anything except repeal Obamacare. The other bills failed to pass.
> ...



Yeah, and about 12 million of them will be grateful they are no longer being FORCED to buy insurance they don't want. 

And premiums will DECREASE!


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > Boss said:
> ...



Gambling doesn't is a guaranteed payout, you will collect on one form of insurance in your lifetime so therefore not a gamble.


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > Boss said:
> ...



Dream on.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 26, 2017)

Trying to figure out what the hell is going on, any action on Obamacare was pretty much dead a week ago and left wingers cried and cried because Trump and the Republicans didn't do anything, no they resurrected it and the left wing nutter are worried that the Republicans will do something! The last seven years we hear how great Obamacare is and now just after a vote to debate on healthcare, the lefty nutjobs are screaming the Republicans own it! 

You people bitched and moaned so much the last week you got your wish and I think you now own whatever change happens.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 26, 2017)

debbiedowner said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > The Derp said:
> ...



The Molina layoffs occurred before the vote, it is a reflection of the current healthcare already in place.


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > Boss said:
> ...



March 2010


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



I saw that a day after I posted. Can't figure them out since the founders were ousted. One hand now says we're out one says we're expanding in certain areas. They are big on Medicaid.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> Well, aside from them being essentially bankrupt?



They're not bankrupt.  Medicare is solvent through the mid-2020's thanks to Obamacare.




Boss said:


> Look... maybe one of these days, magic unicorns will appear from My Little Pony to bestow us with endless resources to provide cradle-to-grave health care for everyone and no one shall ever be sick again!  Until that happens, we're stuck with grim reality. I'm sorry... we can get you a juice box if that'll make it better.



I don't believe health care should depend on how much cash you have in the bank.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> All forms of insurance is essentially a gamble. Someone is willing to bet that you won't be sick and file a claim. The higher the risk is that you might file a claim, the higher you premiums and/or deductibles. At some point, you may not even be a risk they are willing to take at any cost. Pre-existing conditions completely nullifies the basic principles of insurance.



Right, but you didn't say what you think insurance is.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Boss said:


> Yeah, and about 12 million of them will be grateful they are no longer being FORCED to buy insurance they don't want.



Who are these people?  Where are you getting this number?  And if they don't have insurance, who do you think pays for the health care costs they will inevitably face?




Boss said:


> And premiums will DECREASE!



No, they will increase according to the CBO.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> Trying to figure out what the hell is going on, any action on Obamacare was pretty much dead a week ago and left wingers cried and cried because Trump and the Republicans didn't do anything, no they resurrected it and the left wing nutter are worried that the Republicans will do something! The last seven years we hear how great Obamacare is and now just after a vote to debate on healthcare, the lefty nutjobs are screaming the Republicans own it!



They do own it now.  It's on them.  They created most of the problems facing Obamacare (risk corridors, Medicaid expansion, discouraging enrollment).  Conservatives have spent the last 7 years saying Obamacare is this terrible, awful thing that has to be repealed, yet _*no replacement plan????*_  That would mean most of what Conservatives were saying about Obamacare was and is bullshit.




Papageorgio said:


> You people bitched and moaned so much the last week you got your wish and I think you now own whatever change happens.



How's that?  Conservatives are the ones in control of Congress.  They're the ones voting to repeal Obamacare without having a replacement plan waiting.  WTF have they been doing the last 7 years?????


----------



## The Derp (Jul 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> The Molina layoffs occurred before the vote, it is a reflection of the current healthcare already in place.



No, it's a reflection of the uncertainty Conservatives created with their haphazard attempt to undo Obama's legacy so Bush's doesn't look as bad by comparison.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 26, 2017)

miketx said:


> You can't tell the truth can you? Obama care has not been repealed. No such thing as "trump care" exists! This shit is the end result of obama. Stop lying!


You are the one who is lying!!!
Trumpcare is the ACA without the mandate, taxes and penalties as a result of Don THE Con's EO his FIRST day in office.

The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release 
January 20, 2017
*Executive Order Minimizing the Economic Burden of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act Pending Repeal*


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 26, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > The Molina layoffs occurred before the vote, it is a reflection of the current healthcare already in place.
> ...



The layoffs came before the vote when everyone was saying healthcare reform is dead. But I understand your temper tantrum today, it's all going to be okay.


----------



## Penelope (Jul 26, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> debbiedowner said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Announced in the 4th quarter of 2016 due to a GOP getting elected, AKA Trump. I assume that is what made their decision, getting out while the getting is good.

Long Beach City Council voted earlier this month to create a business support team tasked with keeping Molina Healthcare in town.

*Molina Healthcare has grown substantially in the years since then-President Barack Obama signed the Affordable Care Act in 2010. At the end of that year, Molina Healthcare employed some 4,200 people, according to its annual report for 2010. Its total employment quintupled between then and the end of last year, when some 21,000 people worked for the firm, the Press-Telegram reported.*

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/07/25/molina-healthcare-layoffs/

https://www.bizjournals.com/albuque...na-healthcare-announces-cuts-to-national.html


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jul 26, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...



They didn't change it, so they own it?


----------



## Penelope (Jul 26, 2017)

Obamacare and Medicaid specialist Molina Healthcare to cut about 1,400 jobs, memo says

scroll down and listen to the video, worried Trump and the GOP will repeal the ACA.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 26, 2017)

Penelope said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...



So you just want to assume it was because of Trump being elected. It had nothing to do with their 4th quarter losses in 2016 of $91 million.It had nothing to do with their stock dropping 17% in May and getting rid of the CEO and CFO. It had nothing to do with a very rapid growth and then the curbing of that growth, it is just all because of Donald Trump. 

I think you are dead wrong.


----------



## Faun (Jul 26, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > You can't tell the truth can you? Obama care has not been repealed. No such thing as "trump care" exists! This shit is the end result of obama. Stop lying!
> ...


Absofuckinglutely correct.

Trump pulled the legs out from under it -- he owns it now. He'll deny that of course should it collapse due to his changes; but the country will remind him, no matter what he tweets.


----------



## miketx (Jul 26, 2017)

Faun said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...


No, it failed before trump did anything. No can play pretend all day long, but in the end, it's another Obama/ special interest failure.


----------



## yiostheoy (Jul 26, 2017)

Penelope said:


> and face the dirty facts of what they just did. Say goodbye to your seats next election.  Taking millions off of healthcare to give tax cuts to the wealthy. Shame , shame , shame.
> 
> Whoever wanted this and voted for this, just remember you will reap what you sowed.  You have got what you wanted, so clap and laugh and face the reality of what you voted for.
> 
> ...


It's still too close to call.

Trump was able to cajole the GOP Senators into voting for debate.

He can't do the same once all amendments are in.

This is not repeal.

This is not even replace.

This is just modify.

ACA is here to stay.

Same as Social Security and Medicare.


----------



## Faun (Jul 26, 2017)

miketx said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


It hasn't failed yet. Had it failed, the Republican-led Congress wouldn't be desperately trying to repeal it.


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 27, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Since the mandates, the growth in premiums has been less than it was prior to the ACA. That's what I meant.  Mandates are necessary if you're guaranteeing universal coverage, which is what Trump and the GOP promised as they campaigned in 2016 and even in early 2017 once in office.  So by repealing Obamacare, they are breaking that major campaign promise.


Wrong Republicans many promised to repeal Obananacare. The government mandating/forcing the blue collar working class who most generally earn less to pay more for less service to provide for someone else's healthcare is totally insane and it is unjust. The lawyer and his wife can downgrade their lifestyle and pay for their own expenses.




The Derp said:


> Why should someone go bankrupt, or lose their home, or drop out of school over something out of their control?  *Any *type of cancer treatment is expensive.


Why should someone else have to chance losing their home to pay for another person's medical insurance and care?


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

Boss said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the GOP has done everything to ruin the ACA since inception.
> ...


The perpetual Right-wing dumb act again.

Such as this:
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
*January 20, 2017
Executive Order Minimizing the Economic Burden of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act Pending Repeal*


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

Boss said:


> OP said "since inception" which, I believe, was 2009.


Everything you "believe" is wrong!


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

Boss said:


> OP said "since inception" which, I believe, was 2009. So what you need to do is carry your happy ass to thomas.gov and find the House and Senate bills passed by Republicans since 2009 that changes anything regarding ACA... I'll wait!


The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
January 20, 2017
*Executive Order Minimizing the Economic Burden of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act Pending Repeal*


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

CrusaderFrank said:


> They didn't change it, so they own it?


You should have known as soon as your MessiahRushie told you the ACA has not been changed, that it truly has been changed!!!

*Jul 18, 2017*
RUSH: *The law still says you have to buy it. Remember, the mandates are still there. The fines are still there. Everything’s still there if it isn’t repealed* in its present downward spiral, which everybody agrees is happening. 

*The White House*

Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release

January 20, 2017

*Executive Order* Minimizing the Economic Burden of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act *Pending Repeal*

EXECUTIVE ORDER

Sec. 2.  To the maximum extent permitted by law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services (Secretary) and the heads of all other executive departments and agencies (agencies) with authorities and responsibilities under the Act shall exercise all authority and discretion available to them *to waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement of the Act that would impose a fiscal burden on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals, families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical devices, products, or medications.*


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

miketx said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


Nope, if it actually had failed before Don THE Con fucked with it, you would not have to repeal it or WAIT for it to fail.
Admit it for 8 years the Right have been lying to you about the ACA failing.


----------



## miketx (Jul 27, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...


You're liar. Obama care has been screwed since the beginning. How criminal is it to make people pay a tax if they don't have insurance. It's being dropped all over the country, rates are sky high, and you just look the other way and lie.


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 27, 2017)

Penelope said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


For whatever reason you are pro in this whole scam I am against you. My son's insurance went up by $1,800.00 a month and his deductible went from $1,500.00 a year to $5,000.00 a year. He had to pay all of the diagnostic bills and then on top of all that he paid for his own natural treatment for the brain cancer the local doctors and Mayo clinic diagnosed. I'll keep saying it until the cows come home ACA is nothing more than government sponsored racketeering.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

miketx said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...


Rates have gone up precisely because Don THE Con eliminated the mandates!


----------



## miketx (Jul 27, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...


More lies. OC has been failing way before trump.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

miketx said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...


The Right have been lying about the ACA failing before Don THE Con fucked with it, but it has taken Tramp's EO to actually cause the damage.


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 27, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > They didn't change it, so they own it?
> ...



His EO was a scam, hell there was already 50 some exemptions one could file for so they didn't have to pay the penalty. I had people that were not obligated to pay the penalty but their dumb ass tax person filed their taxes wrong and told them they had to pay. Most were these places that only open for tax season, but ran into one 25 years in business CPA that didn't know a damn thing about exemptions, how to file a 1095A or B.

Now I believe that if what they are debating tonight does role that penalty back so some people would file amended tax returns and get it back. Of course with all the bills presented and voted on in the past two days who knows if it's still in there.

I just checked and they are still debating on whatever they have come up with now. I guess that would be the skinny.


----------



## dblack (Jul 27, 2017)

All they should do is repeal the individual and employer mandates. Let people decide for themselves.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 27, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > They didn't change it, so they own it?
> ...



I don't waste my time listening to Rush, you are the only person I see posting his words. Pretty funny.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 27, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...


So, Frank is your sock, or are you his???


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 28, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I'm no ones sock deflect much, and what the hell does that have to do with my post? I haven't listened to Limbaugh since maybe 2001, all he is, is an agitator, just like you are. You keep pulling out his dribble like it means something. Then you repeat the same shit post after post, your act is old, boring and lends nothing to the discussion. Keep on citing Rush, it proves you are just an out of touch left wing asshole.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 28, 2017)

Papageorgio said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...


It really hurts you to have your MessiahRushie exposed as the lying scum he is.


----------



## IsaacNewton (Jul 28, 2017)

If Republicans were in charge of building a new Death Star:  

The Emperor shows up..."so you fixed that tiny hole in this moon-sized ship that allowed Luke-Drop-A-Deuce to drop a little energy down the Death Star's a-hole and blow it up right?" "Oh yes sir, now you can't just take a shot and blow up the new Death Star, you have to fly a fleet of fighters into it, maneuver around inside flying down ship sized tunnels until you reach the gigantic open air stadium in the center and shoot a bit of energy at something there to destroy it". 

Emperor double-face palm.


----------



## Boss (Jul 28, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Okay... just so people are following what is happening here...

It was charged that _"the GOP has done everything to ruin ACA since inception."_

I asked for an example.

Shit-for-brains posts an EO from 2017.

Now, obviously, the inception of Obamacare was not Jan. 2017 and President Trump is not the GOP.But nowadays, this passes for objective debate to the liberal left. Ed actually believes he put me in my place.


----------



## Penelope (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



He must make good money. (that doesn't tell us jack, , age, family size , family income, etc??


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 28, 2017)

Penelope said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


He pays for insurance for himself and his son. Prior to obunglecare his employer provided his insurance. His employer could not afford the drastic increase in insurance cost. He is a construction worker making a standard construction workers wage with no special education. He generally puts in sixty to eighty hours a week. You people have stolen his ability to save up to have his own home paid for before he retires in twenty years. You are a bunch of f'ing thieves.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

Penelope said:


> He must make good money. (that doesn't tell us jack, , age, family size , family income, etc??



Probably because it's bullshit.  Saying it went up $1,800 a month!?  Not even the Platinum plans on the exchanges are that expensive.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> He pays for insurance for himself and his son



OK, so we can very easily determine if you're being honest or not by providing a few more minor details such as the ages of those on the policy, the income (an estimate will do), and where they live.  Plug those things into the Kaiser Health Insurance Marketplace Calculator and see what the actual cost is.




RodISHI said:


> Prior to obunglecare his employer provided his insurance. His employer could not afford the drastic increase in insurance cost



Now I know you're full of it because Group Plans were untouched by Obamacare, and are bought through the SHOP marketplaces, not the Exchanges where individuals go to buy policies.  This is more of that fake Obamacare victimhood Conservatives have been lying about for seven years.  At this point, if you're still making shit up about the effects of Obamacare on these nameless people you expect us to believe you know, at least do the hard work of corroborating it.  You don't even do that.  *LAZY and SLOPPY!*




RodISHI said:


> He is a construction worker making a standard construction workers wage with no special education. He generally puts in sixty to eighty hours a week. You people have stolen his ability to save up to have his own home paid for before he retires in twenty years. You are a bunch of f'ing thieves.



Notice how vague this is.  He's not going to divulge the key parts of this story because he either made the whole thing up, or is just relaying third-hand bullshit on the board.


----------



## Boss (Jul 28, 2017)

debbiedowner said:


> Gambling doesn't is a guaranteed payout, you will collect on one form of insurance in your lifetime so therefore not a gamble.



That bit of rambling doesn't even make sense. Not sure if you were drinking or huffing when you posted this but you might want to consider reorganizing your words or perhaps using other ones to form a coherent thought. 

Someone asked me to explain how insurance worked. I did my best to do so in a way that morons can grasp. If that was over your head, I'm sorry... can't really dumb it down anymore.

An insurer is gambling that you won't get sick and if you do, it will cost less than your deductible or no more than the total of your premiums. If their gamble isn't paying off across the pool they cover, premiums and deductibles have to increase.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 28, 2017)

Boss said:


> President Trump is not the GOP


You get more stupid with each post!
Don THE Con as the REPUBLICAN president IS the GOP!!!!


----------



## Boss (Jul 28, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > President Trump is not the GOP
> ...



No, the president is the president, not the GOP.


----------



## edthecynic (Jul 28, 2017)

Boss said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > Boss said:
> ...


Tramp is the REPUBLICAN president.


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 28, 2017)

The Derp said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > He pays for insurance for himself and his son
> ...


You do not like the truth so you make up your own bs trying to push your own agenda.

Kaiser is not an established provider for obunglecare throughout the rest of the country so it doesn't mean shit what their calculator says.


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## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

Boss said:


> It was charged that _"the GOP has done everything to ruin ACA since inception." _I asked for an example.



Here's three:

1.  Rubio destroying risk corridors in 2013
2.  Conservative Red State death panels refusing to expand Medicaid since 2010
3.  Trump's HHS spending taxpayer dollars in an attempt to _*discourage*_ sign ups this past January.

That's just three off the top of my head.  I'm sure there are many more.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> You do not like the truth so you make up your own bs trying to push your own agenda.



No, actually, _*you're the ones doing that*_.  Like this imaginary construction worker friend who you claim saw his premiums rise by $1,800, but you strangely refuse to divulge information that can corroborate your claim.  So why _*the fuck*_ should I take your word for it?  What _*the actual fuck *_have you done to establish enough trust where I can accept second-hand anecdotal information you give me?  You guys are such egomaniacs you have to make shit up just so you don't have to admit you're wrong on a fucking message board.

Get _*the holy living fuck*_ over yourself.




RodISHI said:


> Kaiser is not an established provider for obunglecare throughout the rest of the country so it doesn't mean shit what their calculator says.



Hey you stupid fucking idiot, Kaiser _*is*_ in fact a health care provider, and the Kaiser Family Foundation, which devised the calculator mechanism specifically for this purpose, has no partisan agenda.  Gah!

So you come here on the boards to spread lying bullshit, why?  What is your reason for lying and making up shit on a message board?  Is it an ego thing?  Are you paid to do this?  Are you testing out stupid arguments that you can use IRL?  What gives?


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 28, 2017)

The Derp said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > You do not like the truth so you make up your own bs trying to push your own agenda.
> ...


Nah' you make up shit and think you are going to do it without getting called on it. 

Democrats are perfectly happy paying a Muslim Brotherhood spy $150,000.00 a year but they damn sure have a problem when it comes to paying an American national construction worker the same. 

Look idiot, various members of my family worked for Kaiser Steel long before they sold the private health system. My daughter was born at Kaiser hospital when it was for employees only. What you are reading from may say Kaiser but that doesn't make it Kaiser or Kaiser Steel. It's like Norwest paying for the use of Wells Fargo's name. That is what got their ball rolling. You see, each state requires a charter for an out of state corporation to enter into business in that state.


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 28, 2017)

For those who are unaware of what a few derps want you to accept as the norm these stories may give you a clue to what will be happening if you don't get rid of Obungle Care. Repeal it and do not replace it. Kill it! Before it kills you or a member of your family.


kaiser medical care kills babies - Google Search

*Kaiser Kills | Kaiser Permanente Thrive Exposed*
www.kaiserthrive.org/category/kaiser-kills/
Oct 4, 2012 - You have to ask yourself — is your _Kaiser Permanente_ doctor a one man ... touting Kaiser-style health _care_ “reform” for all… because your _child_ ...
*Kaiser May Face Fine Over Infant's Death | Kaiser Permanente Thrive ...*
www.kaiserthrive.org/2007/03/12/kaiser-may-face-fine-over-infants-death/
Mar 12, 2007 - The little boy remained under _hospital care_ because of an illness. On February ... Previously: Medication error _kills infant_ at _Kaiser_ Santa Clara ...
*Another mother buries her child thanks to Kaiser Permanente | Kaiser ...*
www.kaiserthrive.org/.../another-mother-buries-her-child-thanks-to-kaiser-permanent...
Jul 31, 2009 - What we vehemently oppose is _Kaiser_-style _health care_ reform, and insurance companies _killing_ people for profit. Big difference that. Admin.
*Kaiser patient horror stories*
horror.kaiserpapers.org/
It scares me to think that _Kaiser_ could be the template for national _health care_! ... On another occasion after the birth of my first _child_, I had some strange cramping and was ... Man Wrongly Convicted of _Murder_ Freed After 21 Years Behind Bars
*Head Lice - My Doctor Online - Kaiser Permanente*
https://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/ncal/.../condition_viewall_page.jsp?...
Most families use a special nonprescription shampoo to _kill_ the lice. .... _health care_ team is aware of all aspects of your _child's_ condition, _care_ is safer and more ...
*[PDF]Colds and Flu in Children - My Doctor Online - Kaiser Permanente*
https://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/.../90398 Rev10.13 CL_tcm75-14252....
Antibiotics only _kill_ bacteria—not viruses ... _care_ to maintain your _child's_ health during cold and flu .... 2002, _Kaiser Permanente_ Medical _Care_ Program. All rights ...
*[PDF]Colds and Flu in Children - Kaiser Permanente Thrive*
https://thrive.kaiserpermanente.org/care.../Colds-and-Flu-in-Children_tcm28-195271....
only _kill_ bacteria—not viruses—and colds and flu are caused by ... Take extra _care_ to maintain your _child's_ .... 2002, _Kaiser Permanente_ Medical _Care_ Program.
*Your Care Instructions - Health-Encyclopedia - Kaiser Permanente*
Kaiser Permanente...
Or your _child_ can take pills by mouth to _kill_ bacteria in the skin or pores. This type of _medicine_ is not used to treat skin problems that are caused by viruses or ...
*Baby's parents battle HMO in court - latimes*
articles.latimes.com › Collections › Court Rulings
Sep 22, 2007 - ... _baby_ seeking to force _healthcare_ giant _Kaiser Permanente_ to move their ... and allow Andrew to get good medical _care_ and not _kill_ my son.".
*Top 730 Complaints and Reviews about Kaiser Permanente Insurance*
ConsumerAffairs.com: Research. Review. Resolve. › Insurance › Health Insurance
Rating: 1.4 - ‎137 votes
Please, do NOT choose _Kaiser_ for your _health care_ needs. .... Ok, it's a damn serious situation that could _kill_ me and that's how they handle it? ..... me 8k for 15 minutes doctor visit just for delivery doctor (normal delivery with healthy _baby_).


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Nah' you make up shit and think you are going to do it without getting called on it.



That's exactly what you're doing, pal!  You have this* imaginary* construction worker friend who you claim saw his premiums increase by $1,800 a month (bullshit), yet when pressed for details, suddenly you clam up.  What gives?  You thought everyone would just take your word for it?  What makes you think that?  I haven't made anything up.  You're the one invoking these people no one can confirm are real.  They're just your imaginary friends.  You know who else has imaginary friends?  My niece.  But she's 4.  What's your excuse?




RodISHI said:


> Democrats are perfectly happy paying a Muslim Brotherhood spy $150,000.00 a year but they damn sure have a problem when it comes to paying an American national construction worker the same.



Go fuck yourself you piece of shit, liar.  You cna't deflect away from the subject we're discussing; why you feel it necessary to make shit up on a message board.  I really, truly believe it's an ego thing with you.  That you simply cannot bring yourself to admit that you're not as smart or clever as you think you are.  So all this shit you're posting is just to compensate for that insecurity you have.  Seriously, get over yourself.  No one cares about you enough that it matters if you're right or wrong here.  So you may as well be right...right?




RodISHI said:


> Look idiot, various members of my family worked for Kaiser Steel long before they sold the private health system.



Who fucking cares!?  The Kaiser Family Foundation has been around since 1948.  Which predates you, me, and most insurance companies today.




RodISHI said:


> My daughter was born at Kaiser hospital when it was for employees only. What you are reading from may say Kaiser but that doesn't make it Kaiser or Kaiser Steel. It's like Norwest paying for the use of Wells Fargo's name. That is what got their ball rolling. You see, each state requires a charter for an out of state corporation to enter into business in that state.



What the _*actual fuck*_ is this bullshit?  The Kaiser Family Foundation is a non-profit that focuses on health care issues and has since its creation 70 years ago.

So I see what you're doing...you're trying to obfuscate the issue because you know that the details you provide on your imaginary friend's health care won't corroborate your claims if put into this calculator.  But if you don't want to use that one, fine.  There are myriad other insurance calculators out there to use that all result in the same fucking thing; exposing you as being a lying shitbag who makes people up out of thin air in order to lend your argument credibility it never had in the first place.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> For those who are unaware of what a few derps want you to accept as the norm these stories may give you a clue to what will be happening if you don't get rid of Obungle Care. Repeal it and do not replace it. Kill it! Before it kills you or a member of your family.



What a fucking piece of shit you are.  So, now the Conservative knows he cannot provide details of his imaginary friend, so he is trying to gaslight the Kaiser Family Foundation -which is different from Kaiser Permanente- so he doesn't have to accept the conclusions of their insurance marketplace calculator.

Fine!  Choose any of the myriad other insurance calculators out there.  There are plenty.

Like this one, from healthinsurance.org.

Or this one, from healthcaremarketplace.com.

Or this one, from ehealthinsurance.com

Doesn't matter which one you choose, they're not going to make your imaginary friend's case any more real.


----------



## Boss (Jul 28, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > It was charged that _"the GOP has done everything to ruin ACA since inception." _I asked for an example.
> ...



Well, there's not many more and these are all disqualified. You are trying to use measures taken as the result of ACA failing to do what was promised, and making that be an attempt to ruin it.  This is exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty you people are becoming known for.

The truth is, the GOP doesn't have to try and ruin ACA, it was ruined before it was passed. It's been an abject failure. It's so fucking bad that you morons are now trying to hang it all around Trump's neck and walk away. It won't work, people know who passed Obamacare.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> For those who are unaware of what a few derps want you to accept as the norm these stories may give you a clue to what will be happening if you don't get rid of Obungle Care. Repeal it and do not replace it. Kill it! Before it kills you or a member of your family.



This guy Rodshi is such a fucking piece of shit, he has to gaslight KFF because _*he*_ doesn't want to have to provide the details on his imaginary friend that won't end up corroborating his wild claims.

For shame.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

Boss said:


> Well, there's not many more and these are all disqualified.



How are they "disqualified"?  Explain.  Rubio destroying the risk corridors is precisely the reason why insurers are leaving certain marketplaces.  The refusal of red state death panels to expand Medicaid has forced millions into the coverage gap.  And it's right there in black and white showing Trump using taxpayer money to discourage ACA sign ups.

The problem is you're a fucking liar and you can't admit when you're wrong.  Which you are.  Totally.




Boss said:


> You are trying to use measures taken as the result of ACA failing to do what was promised, and making that be an attempt to ruin it.  This is exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty you people are becoming known for.



No, those three things were specific actions the GOP took to undermine the law.  If you don't understand how or why, then it's likely you have an extra chromosome or two.  Prior to Rubio eliminating it, the risk corridors were present in the law.  Prior to SCOTUS undermining it, Medicaid expansion was national.  Prior to Trump spending money to discourage it, the ACA was using those dollars to promote sign ups.  So I don't know how it can be any clearer for you.  I think you're being deliberately obtuse now because of your fucking ego.  Ugh.  Get.  Over.  Yourself.  Your ego is not important to anyone.  There's no need to play dumb.  It's actually very disrespectful.




Boss said:


> The truth is, the GOP doesn't have to try and ruin ACA, it was ruined before it was passed. It's been an abject failure. It's so fucking bad that you morons are now trying to hang it all around Trump's neck and walk away. It won't work, people know who passed Obamacare.



Bullshit.  Conservatives have been lying about the ACA since it was signed into law.  Not one of the predictions you liars made about it have come true.  You're all just a bunch of snowflakes who can't bear to be told you're wrong about something.  Get over yourself.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jul 28, 2017)

edthecynic said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



I wouldn't know if he lies or doesn't lie, I haven't listened to him in 15 or 16 years. It seems you are the one with crush on him.


----------



## Penelope (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> The Derp said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


*A leader in health policy analysis and health journalism, the Kaiser Family Foundation is dedicated to filling the need for trusted information on national health issues.*
Kaiser is a non-profit organization focusing on national health issues, as well as the U.S. role in global health policy. Unlike grant-making foundations, Kaiser develops and runs its own policy analysis, journalism and communications programs, sometimes in partnership with major news organizations.

We serve as a non-partisan source of facts, analysis and journalism for policymakers, the media,  the health policy community and the public. Our product is information, always provided free of charge — from the most sophisticated policy research, to basic facts and numbers, to in depth health policy news coverage provided by our news service, KHN, to information young people can use to improve their health or the general public can use to understand the health reform law.

The modern day KFF was established in the early 1990s with its current mission and operating style.

It is not associated with Kaiser Permanente.

About Us


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 28, 2017)

The Derp said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > For those who are unaware of what a few derps want you to accept as the norm these stories may give you a clue to what will be happening if you don't get rid of Obungle Care. Repeal it and do not replace it. Kill it! Before it kills you or a member of your family.
> ...




You show what an ignorant pos you are and I don't share details on my family so cat's got your tongue.....Kaiser has been shitcare since your money mongrels took it over. Besides *Top 730 Complaints and Reviews about Kaiser Permanente Insurance tells the truth about government sponsored socialized healthcare. Btw, you won't find my name in there. *


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## RodISHI (Jul 28, 2017)

Penelope said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > The Derp said:
> ...


Thanks for adding some more fuel for derps wild fire.


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## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> You show what an ignorant pos you are and I don't share details on my family



So then how can we take anything you say truthfully?


----------



## The Derp (Jul 28, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> *Top 730 Complaints and Reviews about Kaiser Permanente Insurance tells the truth about government sponsored socialized healthcare. Btw, you won't find my name in there. *



KFF is not a part of Kaiser Permanente, by the way.  This is what I am talking about when I say _*you don't know what health insurance is, you don't know what health insurance companies do, *_and *you don't know how it relates to health care delivery.
*
So you just conflate the issue in the hopes it fatigues the conversation.  But nevertheless, I persist.


----------



## RodISHI (Jul 28, 2017)

The Derp said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > *Top 730 Complaints and Reviews about Kaiser Permanente Insurance tells the truth about government sponsored socialized healthcare. Btw, you won't find my name in there. *
> ...


Eat shit and bark at the moon dog breath as you are the one that brought up Kaiser. BTW, Thanks for adding another link to that socialist chain. It wasn't a link I had connected yet.


Prophecy in the songs for those with an ear to hear. Papa told me as a child what these derps of today would attempt to do to the people.

This one's for derp......


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 28, 2017)

Penelope said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



You can be pro marketplace all you want and get a straight answer from them, don't think so. They are not licensed agents and will tell you anything to get rid of you.


----------



## debbiedowner (Jul 28, 2017)

Penelope said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



What, do think it costs more to go through a knowledgeable sales agent? Don't think so and they know the networks and the plans, marketplace does not.


----------



## Boss (Jul 28, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > Well, there's not many more and these are all disqualified.
> ...



I explained it once. Can't you read? The "risk corridors" thing that Rubio contested was a bailout of insurance companies who were losing their ass because young healthy people didn't sign up for Obamacare. It's the first consequence of a failing ACA and because Republicans wouldn't support your band aid, you spin this into _"ruining"_ O-care! 

What the SCOTUS did, can't be laid at the feet of the GOP. Is this where we have to go back and review the allegation I'm challenging?  ..."the GOP has tried to ruin Obamacare since inception!" So we're not talking about Trump's EOs from 2017... the ACA was passed into law in 2010 when Trump was still a Democrat! 

This monstrosity was passed into law in 2010. When Ted Cruz attempted to block funding of its rollout, he was crucified by his own party. The GOP hasn't done a thing legislatively to change ACA. It remains in law pretty much as it was rolled out with the exception of what SCOTUS found unconstitutional, which isn't the fault of the GOP! 

No one needs to lie about ACA, many of us are living the nightmare of it. None of YOUR *promises* have come through! It didn't make health care more affordable or available. It was supposed to provide health care coverage for 40 million... at one point I think 50 million was boasted... turns out, most optimistic results is 22 million and half of those are welfare cases (Medicaid). This turkey just didn't fly... and now, we have smarmy little left-wing smart asses trying to lay this mess off on Trump.


----------



## The Derp (Jul 31, 2017)

Boss said:


> I explained it once. Can't you read? The "risk corridors" thing that Rubio contested was a bailout of insurance companies who were losing their ass because young healthy people didn't sign up for Obamacare. It's the first consequence of a failing ACA and because Republicans wouldn't support your band aid, you spin this into _"ruining"_ O-care!



You understand the concept of insurance, right?  Healthy people pay for sick people, and when those healthy people _*become*_ sick, other healthy people pay for them.  It's literally what health insurance is because people cannot afford most health care out of pocket.  For instance, it costs on average $33K for an appendectomy.  How are you supposed to pay for that if you don't have enough cash, and who does pay for it if you cannot?  Because those charges are going to happen.  All the people whose houses are not on fire are paying for those whose are.




Boss said:


> hat the SCOTUS did, can't be laid at the feet of the GOP. Is this where we have to go back and review the allegation I'm challenging?



The GOP were the ones who brought the suit against Medicaid expansion. You asked if and how the GOP undermined Obamacare since its inception and I'm giving you examples.  You are choosing not to accept them because accepting them would mean I am right and you are wrong and your ego won't allow that.




Boss said:


> his monstrosity was passed into law in 2010. When Ted Cruz attempted to block funding of its rollout, he was crucified by his own party. The GOP hasn't done a thing legislatively to change ACA. It remains in law pretty much as it was rolled out with the exception of what SCOTUS found unconstitutional, which isn't the fault of the GOP!



Wrong, as I said before the GOP has done plenty to undermine the law, you even admitted it yourself with Rubio's risk corridors.  That was legislative.  Do you need a refresher on how a bill becomes a law?




Boss said:


> No one needs to lie about ACA,



Yet that is what you do.  You ripping half of Pelosi's statement out proves it.  She said "we had to pass it so you knew what was in it _*outside the fog of *_*controversy*".  By removing the bolded portion of her statement, you prove the entire statement true!  Removing the bolded part of Pelosi's statement _*literally creates a fog of *_*controversy* because you are clouding the truth of what she said in order to lie about what she said.  You get that, right?




Boss said:


> many of us are living the nightmare of it.



Bullshit.  You people all say you're victims, yet when pressed for details to corroborate your claims, you clam up.  So there's no way to verify if you're actual victims.  You refuse to show your work, leaving us to take your word for it.  Why should I?  Why should anyone?




Boss said:


> None of YOUR *promises* have come through! It didn't make health care more affordable or available. It was supposed to provide health care coverage for 40 million... at one point I think 50 million was boasted... turns out, most optimistic results is 22 million and half of those are welfare cases (Medicaid). This turkey just didn't fly... and now, we have smarmy little left-wing smart asses trying to lay this mess off on Trump.



It wasn't supposed to give all those without insurance, insurance overnight.  And it was never sold as such.  Secondly, millions more _*would*_ be covered if red state death panels expanded Medicaid.  But they didn't.  The problem is you guys don't know what health insurance is, what insurance companies do, and how it relates to health care delivery.


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## The Derp (Jul 31, 2017)

RodISHI said:


> Eat shit and bark at the moon dog breath as you are the one that brought up Kaiser. BTW, Thanks for adding another link to that socialist chain. It wasn't a link I had connected yet.



No, I brought up the Kaiser Family Foundation's insurance marketplace calculator.  When you tried to gaslight them by conflating them with Kaiser Permanente, I gave you at least *three other marketplace insurance calculators that exist*.  You still refuse to provide details that can corroborate your claims.  It's pretty obvious why.


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## Boss (Jul 31, 2017)

The Derp said:


> You understand the concept of insurance, right? Healthy people pay for sick people, and when those healthy people _*become*_ sick, other healthy people pay for them. It's literally what health insurance is because people cannot afford most health care out of pocket. For instance, it costs on average $33K for an appendectomy. How are you supposed to pay for that if you don't have enough cash, and who does pay for it if you cannot? Because those charges are going to happen. All the people whose houses are not on fire are paying for those whose are.



You've got a lot of nerve. It YOU fucktards who don't understand how insurance works! When you mandate coverage for preexisting conditions, it becomes stupid for someone to pay for insurance until they are sick. The insurance carriers also have to be able to assess risk... A pyromaniac who has a history of burning his house down, might not be able to buy fire insurance because he's too much of a risk.

As for medical costs, whether you need it or not, it's not my responsibility to pay for what you can't afford. Every hospital in the country is subject to indigent care laws so they have to perform the appendectomy regardless of your ability to pay. Now, they may bill you or garnish your wages to recover the cost but that's the price you pay for them saving your life. 



The Derp said:


> The GOP were the ones who brought the suit against Medicaid expansion. You asked if and how the GOP undermined Obamacare since its inception and I'm giving you examples. You are choosing not to accept them because accepting them would mean I am right and you are wrong and your ego won't allow that.



Well you're just fucking telling a lie. It was NOT the GOP who brought the case in question, it was the National Federation of Independent Business. They lost the challenge of constitutionally requiring all to have health care coverage but ruled that mandatory state Medicaid expansion was unconstitutional. When you pass an unconstitutional law and it is rightfully challenged, that isn't "ruining" anything. That's ensuring constitutionality.



The Derp said:


> Wrong, as I said before the GOP has done plenty to undermine the law, you even admitted it yourself with Rubio's risk corridors. That was legislative. Do you need a refresher on how a bill becomes a law?



The risk corridors was after the fact. This was because Obamacare FAILED to do as promised. It's not "undermining" something when you refuse to prop it up as it fails. This bill had failure written all over it and we warned you it did. Now, you're wanting to blame us for not doling out taxpayer money to prop it up. 

And this should be a lesson to those establishment types who said, "let Obamacare collapse on its own!" As it is imploding, they are going to lie and blame you for it failing because you didn't prop it up.


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## The Derp (Jul 31, 2017)

Boss said:


> You've got a lot of nerve. It YOU fucktards who don't understand how insurance works! When you mandate coverage for preexisting conditions, it becomes stupid for someone to pay for insurance until they are sick. The insurance carriers also have to be able to assess risk... A pyromaniac who has a history of burning his house down, might not be able to buy fire insurance because he's too much of a risk.



Most health care issues are things that are out of people's control.  They're genetic conditions that predispose people to certain things, or sometimes shit just happens (like appendicitis).  You correctly say it's stupid to pay for insurance once you're sick, well, it's stupid to not have insurance at all when you do get sick.  So what happens when you get sick and have no insurance?  It's that part you guys never have an answer for beyond "don't get sick."  Well don't be stupid, and get insurance.  You people _*still*_ don't understand what health insurance is.  How is that possible????




Boss said:


> As for medical costs, whether you need it or not, it's not my responsibility to pay for what you can't afford. .



Fucking moron..._*you're paying for it anyway*_.  You pay higher premiums because people go to hospitals without insurance, incur high medical costs, and then can't pay it back.  What do you think happens to the costs that "aren't paid back"?  That's not a rhetorical question either, I seriously want to know what you think.  You pay for it anyway when you pay your premium because that premium goes to pay for health care those enrolled in insurance cannot afford out of pocket.  So you socialize your premiums together with the millions of other people enrolled in your plan.  Those people may incur high medical costs, regardless of their previous risk.  As I said many times, you don't know what your health needs are going to be day-to-day, and it's stupid to pretend you do.  This just gets back to what I've been saying; *you don't know what health insurance is, you don't know what insurance companies do, and you don't know how it relates to delivery of health care.*




Boss said:


> Every hospital in the country is subject to indigent care laws so they have to perform the appendectomy regardless of your ability to pay. Now, they may bill you or garnish your wages to recover the cost but that's the price you pay for them saving your life.



And what if they can't recover the cost from garnishing your wages?  Pre-ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, and 75% of those were people _*who had insurance*_.  So the system you want continues to bankrupt people for things out of their control (like appendicitis).  You don't seem to understand anything we're talking about.  It's all off the top of your head, isn't it?




Boss said:


> Well you're just fucking telling a lie. It was NOT the GOP who brought the case in question, it was the National Federation of Independent Business.



A GOP-affiliated group that counts all 25 of its Congressional members in the Republican Party. 96% of its "donations" are to Republicans.  This is what I'm talking about when I say you are just shitting this out off the top of your head.  You do rushed, sloppy work.




Boss said:


> They lost the challenge of constitutionally requiring all to have health care coverage but ruled that mandatory state Medicaid expansion was unconstitutional. When you pass an unconstitutional law and it is rightfully challenged, that isn't "ruining" anything. That's ensuring constitutionality.



By doing what they did, they plunged millions of people into the Medicaid coverage gap.  You admit that, right?




Boss said:


> The risk corridors was after the fact.



Hold up.  I said that the GOP has done everything they can to undermine the law _*since inception*_.  The law was executed (inception) in March 2010.  Rubio destroyed the risk corridors _*in 2013*_.  Is 2013 before or after 2010?  So since the law's inception in March 2010, Conservatives destroyed the risk corridors in 2013.  Since the law's inception in 2010, Conservative Red State death panels refused to expand Medicaid.  Now we have a case of words not meaning what they mean, according to clowns whose egos are so fragile, they have to post bullshit on message boards to make them feel better about themselves.  Instead, you just look stupid.




Boss said:


> This was because Obamacare FAILED to do as promised.



WTF?  you don't know _*anything*_.  The risk corridors were present in the law prior to 2013.  Than you guys took those out, and after they were taken out, the promise of insurance failed.  But that's not because of Obamacare.  That's because of you guys deliberately undermining Obamacare.




Boss said:


> It's not "undermining" something when you refuse to prop it up as it fails.



It only failed because you undermined it.  Prior to removing the risk corridors, it wasn't failing.  Only when you eliminated those risk corridors did insurers start dropping out of the exchanges.  Moron. 




Boss said:


> This bill had failure written all over it and we warned you it did. Now, you're wanting to blame us for not doling out taxpayer money to prop it up.



WRONG.  It didn't have failure written all over it.  Not until you guys started chipping away at it.  You did that by refusing to expand Medicaid, by eliminating the risk corridors, and by  actively discouraging people from signing up.  This is that personal responsibility shit you all screech about, but never put in practice.  You all sowed chaos in the exchanges when you removed the risk corridors.  That's what made it possible for insurers to offer coverage in areas where Trump won.  But you'll never grasp that because you don't know what health insurance is, don't know what insurance companies do, and don't know how it relates to delivery.


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## Boss (Jul 31, 2017)

The Derp said:


> Boss said:
> 
> 
> > You've got a lot of nerve. It YOU fucktards who don't understand how insurance works! When you mandate coverage for preexisting conditions, it becomes stupid for someone to pay for insurance until they are sick. The insurance carriers also have to be able to assess risk... A pyromaniac who has a history of burning his house down, might not be able to buy fire insurance because he's too much of a risk.
> ...



I'm not going to keep debating this with you. You are backing a health care insurance reform plan that is an abject failure. It did nothing it promised. On top of that, you are now backing measures to bail out insurance companies at the expense of the taxpayer. You have proven that you will throw literally anyone under the bus to continue supporting a progressive initiative... doesn't matter how much it fails and hurts people. You'll simply lie and distort, blaming failure and hurt on the GOP.

We can go back to the 90s when this all started with Bill Clinton putting Hillary in charge of healthcare reform. Health care wasn't some urgent and critical issue to most Americans. We had far more pressing problems... education, national debt, outsourcing jobs, radical terrorism.... but all we heard was HEALTHCARE! Most people were satisfied with their employer-based health care plans and this was not a big deal to them. You made it a big deal... a national debate. You pushed and prodded for years until you finally had the political power to ram through Obamacare without any bipartisan support. You got everything you demanded except "single payer" which even your own party wouldn't support. And here we are nearly a decade later and all we hear are the same emotively-charged arguments you began with.


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## Carter Malone (Jul 31, 2017)

debbiedowner said:


> They just voted to continue a debate about a nonexistent bill. Waste of time. A vote to debate? WTF?




Except that it included big bucks to pharma and insurance that they were getting from some 20 million they throwing off their policies. It also included a 20% rate hike, across the board which was to be increased with the real repeal.

Sad thing is we were congratulating the Republicans for doing the right thing. Now, THATS pathetic.

More proof that Trump is a coward, scared of his own shadow,

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## Carter Malone (Jul 31, 2017)

Poor Trump. He fines gets to sign a real bill and it's for sanctions against his BFF and Russia.


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## Carter Malone (Jul 31, 2017)

Adding that the Trump and Republicans kept the individual mandate. They're just not calling it that. Instead, if you don't buy insurance, you pay a fine.

And they exempted themselves. So they can keep the insurance we buy for them but they won't let us buy it for ourselves.

Cowards.


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