# Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says



## Bullfighter

National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
(Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans. 

The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.

Authorities are especially concerned about use of illicit drugs by young people. The survey by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found 21.2 percent of young adults experimented with illegal drugs in 2009. The report says the trend "was also driven in large part by the use of marijuana."

National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske told CBS Radio News, young people are being exposed to "mixed messages" about marijuana including the idea that it is a medicine. 

The "drug czar" said marijuana "may have properties that have medicinal values that should be tested" but he insisted it is not medicine. 

Kerlikowske views marijuana as "an entry drug." The survey found that for the first time since 2002, less than half of young people believe using marijuana is harmful. 

The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana. 

CBSNews.com Special Report: Marijuana Nation
Coincidentally, the survey is being released as California voters consider a November ballot issue on legalizing pot.

Proponents believe the move would ease crowded court dockets and weaken Mexican drug cartels. Kerlikowske and many veteran former federal drug enforcement officials reject those ideas. 

The president's drug adviser said it is a "false argument" to say marijuana legalization would reduce cartel violence in Mexico. Kerlikowske, a former police chief and undercover narcotics detective, noted, "Taking one small part of the (cartel) enterprise, marijuana away from them isn't going to change them." 

He concedes the drug gangs south of the border can not be totally defeated but he believes "their impact and their violence can be reduced."

While the report emphasizes the detrimental effects of marijuana, Kerlikowske says abuse of prescription drugs rises to the top of his concerns because, "young people don't perceive them as dangerous or addictive." 

He said the availability of prescription medications in home medicine cabinets often makes them widely available and attractive to young people. The non-medical use of prescription drugs notched up slightly to nearly three percent of the population. 

The annual survey offered some encouraging news. It showed decreasing levels of tobacco use to a new low level of 23.3 percent. But the report warned, "The pace of improvement is stagnating." 

The administration's drug control strategy emphasizes prevention and treatment along with law enforcement. Kerlikowske told CBS News, "We have had a focus of a criminal justice lens on drug abuse for quite a while." He added, "It should be a blend" that includes prevention and education. 

The administration is seeking a 13 percent increase in funding for the federal drug abuse prevention effort. 

The drug control policy chief rejects the term, "War on Drugs."

He said, "If we approach it with the same level of complexity that we approach things like cancer, I think we're better off than telling the American public, here's a bumper sticker to solve your problem." 

The survey covers the transition year as President Obama took office. Next year's report will be the first true test of any initial results from the administration's approach to a drug abuse problem that has been a national challenge for decades. 

Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.


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## Blagger

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnO5bKvYYMk"]Wise Words[/ame]


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## topspin

And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.


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## fyrenza

topspin said:


> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.



Dream On, asshat.

p.s.  Speaking of folks being "smart,"

ever heard of DICTIONARY.com or spell checker?


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## johnrocks

Legalize and let people succeed or fair by their own actions;just like with alcohol.


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## dilloduck

topspin said:


> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.





> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana



Obama changed parties ?


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## rightwinger

This is good news because it shows less reliance on harder drugs

Another example of why marajuana use should be legal


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## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.



And by the time you tax the hell out of it like cigarettes, it will cost more to light up than shoot heroin. Then, drug cartels will increase the prices of their supply because the US just increased the value of the product. 

Boy, that was real smart!


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## Bullfighter

rightwinger said:


> This is good news because it shows less reliance on harder drugs
> 
> Another example of why marajuana use should be legal



Can you give us the names of people who smoke pot yet never took any other drug? They don't exist.


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## topspin

Rightwingtools want small government my ass. 
 Pot is way less dangerous than beer or cigarettes and is now prescribed for dozens of medical ailments by doctors.
 you assholes on the right love wars of choice so I'm not upset you lose millions of votes on this issue.
 It lines right up with your hate of minorities as the initial reason to ban was sold with racism.


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## Ravi

*Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government  Report Says*

So it says, but what is this based on? As far as I can tell it is based on the imagination of those writing the report.


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## Paulie

fyrenza said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dream On, asshat.
> 
> p.s.  Speaking of folks being "smart,"
> 
> ever heard of DICTIONARY.com or spell checker?
Click to expand...


Have you ever heard of proper capitalization and sentence structure?

Shut the fuck up.


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## jillian

fyrenza said:


> Dream On, asshat.
> 
> p.s.  Speaking of folks being "smart,"
> 
> ever heard of DICTIONARY.com or spell checker?



sayeth one of the least intelligible and more psycho people on the board. 

now feel free to say what makes you think the racist trash O/P has a point other than on the top of his ugly, racist head.


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## jillian

Ravi said:


> *Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government  Report Says*
> 
> So it says, but what is this based on? As far as I can tell it is based on the imagination of those writing the report.



it's just more of his racist screed.


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## dilloduck

topspin said:


> Rightwingtools want small government my ass.
> Pot is way less dangerous than beer or cigarettes and is now prescribed for dozens of medical ailments by doctors.
> you assholes on the right love wars of choice so I'm not upset you lose millions of votes on this issue.
> It lines right up with your hate of minorities as the initial reason to ban was sold with racism.



Obama is a right wing tool ?


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## Nosmo King

Seems the political right has it wrong yet again.

For all their belly aching about smaller, less intrusive government, they advocate the continuation of another of their failed policies: the criminalization of marijuana use.

Why is marijuana illegal now?  What's the history of marijuana laws?  And why must the government intrude into the personal life of its citizens?


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## fyrenza

topspin said:


> Rightwingtools want small government my ass.
> Pot is way less dangerous than beer or cigarettes and is now prescribed for dozens of medical ailments by doctors.
> you assholes on the right love wars of choice so I'm not upset you lose millions of votes on this issue.
> It lines right up with your hate of minorities as the initial reason to ban was sold with racism.



Okay, well, check THIS out:

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS found to be THE Gateway Drug.

Yeah.  We take scrips WAY before we could smoke herb, so my money's on THEM being the culprit.

NOW what?  BAN prescription drugs?

You do realize that amphetamines were a prescription drug in the not-too-distant past, and that IF they were still available, a LOT of meth addicts would be under a doctor's care?


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## topspin

dilloduck said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwingtools want small government my ass.
> Pot is way less dangerous than beer or cigarettes and is now prescribed for dozens of medical ailments by doctors.
> you assholes on the right love wars of choice so I'm not upset you lose millions of votes on this issue.
> It lines right up with your hate of minorities as the initial reason to ban was sold with racism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama is a right wing tool ?
Click to expand...


 Obama is f**ng hypocrite when it comes to pot. He jokingly mocked Clinton about not inhailing yet he shudders out of fear of republican reprisal should he do the right thing.


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## Paulie

fyrenza said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwingtools want small government my ass.
> Pot is way less dangerous than beer or cigarettes and is now prescribed for dozens of medical ailments by doctors.
> you assholes on the right love wars of choice so I'm not upset you lose millions of votes on this issue.
> It lines right up with your hate of minorities as the initial reason to ban was sold with racism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, well, check THIS out:
> 
> PRESCRIPTION DRUGS found to be THE Gateway Drug.
> 
> Yeah.  We take scrips WAY before we could smoke herb, so my money's on THEM being the culprit.
> 
> NOW what?  BAN prescription drugs?
> 
> You do realize that amphetamines were a prescription drug in the not-too-distant past, and that IF they were still available, a LOT of meth addicts would be under a doctor's care?
Click to expand...


Amphetamines are still prescribed to people for a multitude of disorders you fucking idiot.


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## topspin

if you cant debate fall back on grammar. assclowns
 read people
 in the thirties the government told us black and brown men would rape your white woman if allowed marijuana. Really you rightwing tools still buying that gov control. LOFL


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## rightwinger

Bullfighter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is good news because it shows less reliance on harder drugs
> 
> Another example of why marajuana use should be legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give us the names of people who smoke pot yet never took any other drug? They don't exist.
Click to expand...


Not enough bandwidth on this board. There are millions of them


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## Ringel05

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1jB7RBGVGk]YouTube - Reefer Madness Trailer Great marijuana movie[/ame]


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## Nosmo King

rightwinger said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is good news because it shows less reliance on harder drugs
> 
> Another example of why marajuana use should be legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give us the names of people who smoke pot yet never took any other drug? They don't exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not enough bandwidth on this board. There are millions of them
Click to expand...

Right!  If El Matador wants to live by the anecdote, he should die by the anecdote.


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## topspin

small gov for republicans, unless it's money spent to bomb people of color or oppress them at home.


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## Nosmo King

topspin said:


> small gov for republicans, unless it's money spent to bomb people of color or oppress them at home.



Or oppress their fellow American citizens by denying rights.  Ever notice how the right never advocates an expansion of civil rights?  Never in American history have Conservatives marched, protested, legislated or advocated any expansion of rights to American citizens.  Only to American businesses.


----------



## topspin

Dr. Andrew Weil: Cannabis &#8220;May Have a Primary Role in Cancer Treatment and Prevention&#8221;
Tue, 14 Sep 2010 1856  By: Paul Armentano, NORML Deputy Director
Share This Article        For nearly a decade now myself and others have been highlighting the potent anti-cancer and potentially cancer preventive properties of cannabinoids.

Now Dr. Andrew Weil, a best-selling author and world-renowned leader and pioneer in the field of integrative medicine, has lent his powerful voice to this discussion.

Cannabis Rx: Cutting Through the Misinformation
via Huffington Post

[Excerpt below; read the full commentary here.] Research into possible medical uses of cannabis is enjoying a renaissance. In recent years, studies have shown potential for treating nausea, vomiting, premenstrual syndrome, insomnia, migraines, multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injuries, alcohol abuse, collagen-induced arthritis, asthma, atherosclerosis, bipolar disorder, depression, Huntington&#8217;s disease, Parkinson&#8217;s disease, sickle-cell disease, sleep apnea, Alzheimer&#8217;s disease and anorexia nervosa.

But perhaps most exciting, cannabinoids (chemical constituents of Cannabis, the best known being tetrahydrocannabinol or THC) may have a primary role in cancer treatment and prevention. A number of studies have shown that these compounds can inhibit tumor growth in laboratory animal models. In part, this is achieved by inhibiting angiogenesis, the formation of new blood vessels that tumors need in order to grow. What&#8217;s more, cannabinoids seem to kill tumor cells without affecting surrounding normal cells. If these findings hold true as research progresses, cannabinoids would demonstrate a huge advantage over conventional chemotherapy agents, which too often destroy normal cells as well as cancer cells.

As long ago as 1975, researchers reported that cannabinoids inhibited the growth of a certain type of lung cancer cell in test tubes and in mice. Since then, laboratory studies have shown that cannabinoids have effects against tumor cells from glioblastoma (a deadly type of brain cancer) as well as those from thyroid cancer¸ leukemia/lymphoma, and skin, uterus, breast, stomach, colorectal, pancreatic and prostate cancers.

&#8230; If you want to learn more about this subject, I recommend an excellent documentary film, &#8220;What If Cannabis Cured Cancer,&#8221; by Len Richmond, which summarizes the remarkable research findings of recent years. Most medical doctors are not aware of this information and its implications for cancer prevention and treatment. The film presents compelling evidence that our current policy on cannabis is counterproductive.

At this past weekend&#8217;s national NORML Conference, several panelists &#8212; myself included &#8212; discussed the use of cannabinoids as selective anti-cancer agents. We also screened Len Richmond&#8217;s excellent documentary (in which I&#8217;m briefly interviewed) &#8220;What If Cannabis Cured Cancer?&#8221; (Watch the movie trailer here.)

Fortunately, this important discussion is just now finally making its way into the mainstream. Unfortunately, it&#8217;s taken 30+ years to get the MSM to notice. 

What possible advancements in the treatment of cancer may have been achieved over the past three decades had U.S. government officials chosen to advance &#8212; rather than suppress &#8212; clinical research into the anti-cancer effects of cannabis? It&#8217;s time for the public and the media to demand an answer.


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## fyrenza

topspin said:


> Obama is f**ng hypocrite when it comes to pot. He jokingly mocked Clinton about not inhailing yet he shudders out of fear of republican reprisal should he do the right thing.



Obama doesn't give a shit about what Repugs think, 'cuz TPTB don't.

What they DO care about is this:

If pot is legalized?  Everyone will just grow their own (read that, NO taxes)

AND

folks won't give a flying fuck about all of the OMG-They're-Out-To-GET-Us crap that has led to so many of our violent problems with the rest of the world.

Once THEY own the world,

ALL drugs will be legal, 'cuz it's better to keep us inebriated and content with the Big Plan that way.


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## topspin

do you have more than a ged?
 Yeah everyone grows thier own tabacco to. OK got it, simpleton


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## Bullfighter

jillian said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government  Report Says*
> 
> So it says, but what is this based on? As far as I can tell it is based on the imagination of those writing the report.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's just more of his racist screed.
Click to expand...


So you smoke your Mexicans after you suck!!


----------



## fyrenza

topspin said:


> do you have more than a ged?
> Yeah everyone grows thier own tabacco to. OK got it, simpleton



Ever read the laws that DO allow herb for medicinal use?

THEY ALLOW CULTIVATION, also.

And, NO, everyone canNOT just grow their own tobacco (the correct spelling of the word, btw) ~ 

there actually ARE laws about THAT, thank you Winston/Salem et al for protecting your sales ability.


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## Dick Tuck

I'd like to see a poll of police officers.  I'd ask:

1. How many times in your career have you been assaulted by someone who smoked some weed?

2. How many times in your career have you been assaulted by someone who was drinking?


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## rikules

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by the time you tax the hell out of it like cigarettes, it will cost more to light up than shoot heroin. Then, drug cartels will increase the prices of their supply because the US just increased the value of the product.
> 
> Boy, that was real smart!
Click to expand...


regardless, it should be legal

and any person who claims to support FREEDOM and SMALLER GOVERNMENT and KEEPING THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR PRIVATE LIVES and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY should support the legalization of a substance that is less dangerous than either tobaco or alcohol

btw...
if it's legal you can grow your own and not pay any taxes


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## topspin

growing your own is the way, the government sprays mexican weed with chemicals.
 Nice way to treat your teenagers republitools.


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## fyrenza

*I"M* a "republitool," you asshat!  

Granted, a stoner/alchie republitool, but STILL...



(Hey, I'm just kidding around, okay?  PLEASE DON"T NEG ME!!!   )


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## ConHog

some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.

Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME. 

Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.


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## topspin

lot's of republicans are moderate and smart. Lots of them want it legalized or at least decrimed. IE Palin. But the major force against it is still the republican party. 
 Obama is a Democan't on this issue, which makes him worse than republicans. He smoked often (his own words) so he know's how harmless it is but he's to big a pussy to do anything other than say "States I'll let you work it out".
 As usual, California will lead the culture out of the dark ages. Arnold a republican who smoked often won't stop it.


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## topspin

ConHog said:


> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.



 I don't give much credence to a smalll government republican who is a History major and who's only job he can get is SUCKING THE SMALL GOVERNMENT TIT.

 YOU ARE PART OF THE DARK AGE PROBLEM SIMPLETON


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## fyrenza

Paulie said:


> Amphetamines are still prescribed to people for a multitude of disorders you fucking idiot.



Errr...


Ummm....


OOPS!

I stand, corrected!  



p.s.  So, like, what do I have to "HAVE" to get 'em, again?


----------



## Dick Tuck

ConHog said:


> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.



Most hardcore drug addicts start with milk.  It's forced upon them in their infancy.  I blame milk.

"Gateway drug" is a bullshit myth.  To make the claim, one must show cause-effect.  That's something that's never been done.  I know too many people, who in their old age, who are still smoking an occasional doobie, and have never "graduated" to harder, addictive drugs.


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## topspin

It's going to be legal, the hard core religious right will just need to be pulled into the 21st century kicking and screaming.


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## Nate

topspin said:


> It's going to be legal, the hard core religious right will just need to be pulled into the 21st century kicking and screaming.



I agree with you topspin, it will eventually be legal again... That said, until then it is still ILLEGAL and I will show little pity for those ignorant enough to get caught smoking/with it.


----------



## rikules

ConHog said:


> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.



morning conhog....

I'm not sure how addictive it really is....

my experience;

i've known lots of people who smoked pot until....late 20s?  early 30's?

who decided to stop smoking for one reason or another (settling down? raising a family?)

anyway
I noticed that every one who stopped (and they don't all stop...many keep smoking until they die of old age but NOT cancer)....
just quit....cold turkey...

no night sweats
no panic attacks
no desperation to get more....

they just stopped smoking and that was that.....

seems to me a REALLY ADDICTIVE substance would have been more difficult for them to give up

as for aggression....
I don't know your experiences but MOST of us who smoked or knew people who smoked saw people (pot smokers) who were NOT violent and far more inclined to just talk

I know LOTS of musicians and almost ALL of them smoke pot (still, even in their 40's 50's 60's...willie nelson!)

not a violent person among them

I know a couple of guys who, at night, after supper, will smoke a little pot, retreat to their cellars and spend hours working on making/building furniture and cabinets. These guys make really good stuff, too...

back in my 20's and early 30's my friends and I would get together on a saturday afternoon, smoke a little pot and play basketballl or frisbee (ultimate or frolf)

and many people still find pot to be an aphrodisiac

I don't smoke it much anymore these days (can't get it! if it was legal I'd be a more regular toker) but when I do the first thing I think of is "getting it on" with my woman....

anyway
it's probably less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol
and in a freedom loving country with citizens who believe in smaller government and keeping the government out of our private lives it really should be legal


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## GHook93

Hey dumbass, I think you missed the point that the OBAMA'S handpicked Drug Czar made these comments and findings and you missed a key line in the article. I HIGHlighted for you so you won't miss it.



topspin said:


> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.





Bullfighter said:


> The "drug czar" said marijuana "may have properties that have medicinal values that should be tested" but he insisted it is not medicine.
> 
> Kerlikowske views marijuana as "an entry drug." The survey found that for the first time since 2002, less than half of young people believe using marijuana is harmful.
> 
> *The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana*.


----------



## ConHog

topspin said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give much credence to a smalll government republican who is a History major and who's only job he can get is SUCKING THE SMALL GOVERNMENT TIT.
> 
> YOU ARE PART OF THE DARK AGE PROBLEM SIMPLETON
Click to expand...


You are not smart. There really is no other way to put it.

I didn't even voice an opinion in this thread about whether pot should be legalized yet here you are bashing me for my non stated opinion.

Can you argue the fact that pot is addictive for some? No you can't. Can you argue that for many pot was a gateway drug? No you can't. Those are both facts. 

So of course you are reduced to infantile attacks. 

I know you hate the military , but suggesting that those who chose that path did so either because they couldn't find a "real job" or because they wanted to suck on the government teet is just stupid. OMG you mean soldiers expect to be paid? The audacity!

In short, go away junior.

Now for the grown ups in the thread, I will post my opinion. Which by the way I have posted before. In my OPINION, it should be a state choice. No federal law either way on pot.


----------



## Wry Catcher

ConHog said:


> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.



How many arrests have you made?  I can personally attest by experience those on weed rarely resist, those on alcohol, and expecially those on alcohol and speed or downers (reds) are especially dangerous.  If someone is 'stoned' on weed and acts agressively I'd be surprised if there were not other drugs or alcohol (AOD) involved, or a psychiatric condition was in play.

As for a gateway drug, there is an element of truth to this argument.  However one must not necessarily lead to the other.  Consider, by only a few degrees of seperation a  person who chooses to buy MJ must come in contact with a professional criminal, and professionally criminals make their money by selling drugs other than MJ.
Cutting the weed with other drugs is one way to introduce a user of MJ with stronger and more profitable substances, and of course while marketing a small amount of MJ a dealer might toss in a freebee, a little taste of speed or crack as a friendly gesture.

Kids use MJ.  "Just say No" was a joke.  We need to educate kids on the harm of drug use, and MJ is harmful to the physical development of the brain, expecially the linkage between the left and right hemispheres.  Any association with criminals is not what we want in terms of child development either, for some kids have already decided to sell drugs and caviet emptor is the operating ethos of that element.

Removing MJ from schedule I and allowing the States to ban or not makes sense.  The regulated sale of MJ will provide some quality control, likely reduce the amount of illegal MJ on the streets and schoolyards and provide revenue for treatement and education.

Or, we can continue to do what we've done for the past 30 years and "Just say know".


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## topspin

conNarc, I'm free to post here just as you are. They are my opinons.

 I too stopped smoking while raising my kids, though I shouldn't have had too. 
 As long as we have soo many rightwing religious simpletons common sense improvements will be tough to make. 
  I'm not anti military defense. But we are trillions for offense, and rightwing tool republican politicians are all to quick to send some poor kid to get killed. IE Bush the college cheerleader, he couldn't even hack the football field but had no prob sending poor kids to die in the ME.
  ConNarc you can go away, I'll exercise my freedom of speach. Clown


----------



## Luissa

Bullfighter said:


> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
> (Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans.
> 
> The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.
> 
> Authorities are especially concerned about use of illicit drugs by young people. The survey by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found 21.2 percent of young adults experimented with illegal drugs in 2009. The report says the trend "was also driven in large part by the use of marijuana."
> 
> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske told CBS Radio News, young people are being exposed to "mixed messages" about marijuana including the idea that it is a medicine.
> 
> The "drug czar" said marijuana "may have properties that have medicinal values that should be tested" but he insisted it is not medicine.
> 
> Kerlikowske views marijuana as "an entry drug." The survey found that for the first time since 2002, less than half of young people believe using marijuana is harmful.
> 
> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana.
> 
> CBSNews.com Special Report: Marijuana Nation
> Coincidentally, the survey is being released as California voters consider a November ballot issue on legalizing pot.
> 
> Proponents believe the move would ease crowded court dockets and weaken Mexican drug cartels. Kerlikowske and many veteran former federal drug enforcement officials reject those ideas.
> 
> The president's drug adviser said it is a "false argument" to say marijuana legalization would reduce cartel violence in Mexico. Kerlikowske, a former police chief and undercover narcotics detective, noted, "Taking one small part of the (cartel) enterprise, marijuana away from them isn't going to change them."
> 
> He concedes the drug gangs south of the border can not be totally defeated but he believes "their impact and their violence can be reduced."
> 
> While the report emphasizes the detrimental effects of marijuana, Kerlikowske says abuse of prescription drugs rises to the top of his concerns because, "young people don't perceive them as dangerous or addictive."
> 
> He said the availability of prescription medications in home medicine cabinets often makes them widely available and attractive to young people. The non-medical use of prescription drugs notched up slightly to nearly three percent of the population.
> 
> The annual survey offered some encouraging news. It showed decreasing levels of tobacco use to a new low level of 23.3 percent. But the report warned, "The pace of improvement is stagnating."
> 
> The administration's drug control strategy emphasizes prevention and treatment along with law enforcement. Kerlikowske told CBS News, "We have had a focus of a criminal justice lens on drug abuse for quite a while." He added, "It should be a blend" that includes prevention and education.
> 
> The administration is seeking a 13 percent increase in funding for the federal drug abuse prevention effort.
> 
> The drug control policy chief rejects the term, "War on Drugs."
> 
> He said, "If we approach it with the same level of complexity that we approach things like cancer, I think we're better off than telling the American public, here's a bumper sticker to solve your problem."
> 
> The survey covers the transition year as President Obama took office. Next year's report will be the first true test of any initial results from the administration's approach to a drug abuse problem that has been a national challenge for decades.
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.


I love it when the government tries to say marijuana is a gateway drug. 
And drug use has been on the rise for the last ten years, has nothing to do with Obama. 
The use of heroin has also been rise, I wonder why?


----------



## rikules

Dick Tuck said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most hardcore drug addicts start with milk.  It's forced upon them in their infancy.  I blame milk.
> 
> "Gateway drug" is a bullshit myth.  To make the claim, one must show cause-effect.  That's something that's never been done.  I know too many people, who in their old age, who are still smoking an occasional doobie, and have never "graduated" to harder, addictive drugs.
Click to expand...



agreed

I know many people in their 40's 50's 60's who still smoke pot regularly and NEVER TOUCH anything else!

as for "gateway"

couldn't one say that it starts with that first cigarette?

a 12 year old steals one from his mothers purse

he and his friends go behind the garage and smoke it up

after the cigarette....
the bottle of beer.....

then the pot....

a thought;

"they" tell us (when we are young) of the EVILS of pot

basically they lie to us and use extreme fear tactics to scare us

then
we try it for ourselves and realize...."gosh...the police...the government...our parents....all LIED to us...."

do we not  then ask ourselves..."well...if THEY lied about pot.....what ELSE are they lying to us about?....sex?.....freedom?....an apple a day?"

another thought;
I'm aware of the attitude amongst police; cops do NOT turn other cops in

yet I note that cops will come into schools and ask children to turn their parents in...
"if you think your parents are smoking that evil weed then TELL US and we will ARREST THEM and DESTROY THEIR LIVES and put YOU in FOSTER CARE with people who will absue you because THAT is much better than YOU living with two loving parents who smoke pot"


----------



## Bill O'Olberman

ConHog said:


> it is a gateway drug, for SOME.



Pot is as much a gateway drug as caffeine...


----------



## topspin

Pharma companies are all about gateways, as long as it's though them at a huge profit. Small government my ass ghestapo anyone?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says 



Not surprising.


----------



## Wry Catcher

As for MJ being a gateway drug, there is an element of truth to this argument. However one must consider cause and effect.  Consider, by only a few degrees of seperation a person who chooses to buy MJ must come in contact with a professional criminal, and professionally criminals make their money by selling drugs other than MJ.
Cutting the weed with other drugs is one way to introduce a user of MJ with stronger and more profitable substances, and of course while marketing a small amount of MJ a dealer might toss in a freebee, a little taste of speed or crack as a friendly gesture.

Kids use MJ. "Just say No" was a joke. We need to educate kids on the harm of drug use, and MJ is harmful to the physical development of the brain, expecially the linkage between the left and right hemispheres in teens and tweens. Any association with criminals is not what we want in terms of child development either, for some kids as well as grown-ups have already decided to sell drugs and caviet emptor is the operating ethos of that element.

Removing MJ from schedule I and allowing the States to ban or not makes sense. The regulated sale of MJ will provide some quality control, likely reduce the amount of illegal MJ on the streets and schoolyards and provide revenue for treatement and education.

Or, we can continue to do what we've done for the past 30 years and "Just say no".


----------



## rikules

Lonestar_logic said:


> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.



I have no doubt that were this a government report telling us something you didn't agree with you would be explaining how it can't be trusted.

pot is no  more dangerous than alcohol
in a free country pot shoud be legal

in a country in which the people believe the government should stay out of our private lives pot would be legal

people who oppse a nanny state shoud support legalization of pot

people who don't want OTHER people telling THEM how to live should support the legalization of pot


----------



## Lonestar_logic

rikules said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that were this a government report telling us something you didn't agree with you would be explaining how it can't be trusted.
> 
> pot is no  more dangerous than alcohol
> in a free country pot shoud be legal
> 
> in a country in which the people believe the government should stay out of our private lives pot would be legal
> 
> people who oppse a nanny state shoud support legalization of pot
> 
> people who don't want OTHER people telling THEM how to live should support the legalization of pot
Click to expand...


That's your opinion.

Why not make all drugs legal.


----------



## topspin

most other drugs are way more dangerous than pot.

 Back in the 20's lot's of people agreed with beer being banned. I think the mentality of the mj banners is exactly the same.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana


Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use: 

The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2. 

In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.

There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.

Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3

Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6

Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.

More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.

Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7


----------



## rikules

Lonestar_logic said:


> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that were this a government report telling us something you didn't agree with you would be explaining how it can't be trusted.
> 
> pot is no  more dangerous than alcohol
> in a free country pot shoud be legal
> 
> in a country in which the people believe the government should stay out of our private lives pot would be legal
> 
> people who oppse a nanny state shoud support legalization of pot
> 
> people who don't want OTHER people telling THEM how to live should support the legalization of pot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.
> 
> Why not make all drugs legal.
Click to expand...


You can certainly try and legalize any drugs you want to.

personally I feel a line should be drawn....

on one side of that line (legal) should be tobacco, pot and all forms of alcohol

on the other side should be the more dangerous drugs


----------



## ConHog

Wry Catcher said:


> As for MJ being a gateway drug, there is an element of truth to this argument. However one must consider cause and effect.  Consider, by only a few degrees of seperation a person who chooses to buy MJ must come in contact with a professional criminal, and professionally criminals make their money by selling drugs other than MJ.
> Cutting the weed with other drugs is one way to introduce a user of MJ with stronger and more profitable substances, and of course while marketing a small amount of MJ a dealer might toss in a freebee, a little taste of speed or crack as a friendly gesture.
> 
> Kids use MJ. "Just say No" was a joke. We need to educate kids on the harm of drug use, and MJ is harmful to the physical development of the brain, expecially the linkage between the left and right hemispheres in teens and tweens. Any association with criminals is not what we want in terms of child development either, for some kids as well as grown-ups have already decided to sell drugs and caviet emptor is the operating ethos of that element.
> 
> Removing MJ from schedule I and allowing the States to ban or not makes sense. The regulated sale of MJ will provide some quality control, likely reduce the amount of illegal MJ on the streets and schoolyards and provide revenue for treatement and education.
> 
> Or, we can continue to do what we've done for the past 30 years and "Just say no".



I don't think added revenue is a good argument to make when considering legalizing pot. Let's be honest.

A) Most are simply going to grow there own, unless of course you make THAT illegal, in which case you are of course still criminalizing aspects of pot, and most users wouldn't be happy about that.

and 

B) The government would certainly just waste the money and we wouldn't even notice any net gain.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

rikules said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that were this a government report telling us something you didn't agree with you would be explaining how it can't be trusted.
> 
> pot is no  more dangerous than alcohol
> in a free country pot shoud be legal
> 
> in a country in which the people believe the government should stay out of our private lives pot would be legal
> 
> people who oppse a nanny state shoud support legalization of pot
> 
> people who don't want OTHER people telling THEM how to live should support the legalization of pot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.
> 
> Why not make all drugs legal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can certainly try and legalize any drugs you want to.
> 
> personally I feel a line should be drawn....
> 
> on one side of that line (legal) should be tobacco, pot and all forms of alcohol
> 
> on the other side should be the more dangerous drugs
Click to expand...


A line has been drawn. You just don't like it.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Lonestar_logic said:


> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.



Jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Lonestar_logic said:


> [*]Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
> [/LIST]



If it's less than twice as potent, why does it cost more than 10 times as much?  What a rip off.  No wonder those folks I know who still partake roll those matchstick doobs.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Dick Tuck said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> [*]Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
> [/LIST]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's less than twice as potent, why does it cost more than 10 times as much?  What a rip off.  No wonder those folks I know who still partake roll those matchstick doobs.
Click to expand...


Economics 101


----------



## topspin

ConHog said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for MJ being a gateway drug, there is an element of truth to this argument. However one must consider cause and effect.  Consider, by only a few degrees of seperation a person who chooses to buy MJ must come in contact with a professional criminal, and professionally criminals make their money by selling drugs other than MJ.
> Cutting the weed with other drugs is one way to introduce a user of MJ with stronger and more profitable substances, and of course while marketing a small amount of MJ a dealer might toss in a freebee, a little taste of speed or crack as a friendly gesture.
> 
> Kids use MJ. "Just say No" was a joke. We need to educate kids on the harm of drug use, and MJ is harmful to the physical development of the brain, expecially the linkage between the left and right hemispheres in teens and tweens. Any association with criminals is not what we want in terms of child development either, for some kids as well as grown-ups have already decided to sell drugs and caviet emptor is the operating ethos of that element.
> 
> Removing MJ from schedule I and allowing the States to ban or not makes sense. The regulated sale of MJ will provide some quality control, likely reduce the amount of illegal MJ on the streets and schoolyards and provide revenue for treatement and education.
> 
> Or, we can continue to do what we've done for the past 30 years and "Just say no".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think added revenue is a good argument to make when considering legalizing pot. Let's be honest.
> 
> A) Most are simply going to grow there own, unless of course you make THAT illegal, in which case you are of course still criminalizing aspects of pot, and most users wouldn't be happy about that.
> 
> and
> 
> B) The government would certainly just waste the money and we wouldn't even notice any net gain.
Click to expand...


 really to be honest, most don't grow now niether to cigarette smokers
 It's less dangerous than beer and regulating would make it harder for teens to get. But useless narc would lose jobs as well as GED's working as jailers.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Dick Tuck said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations.
Click to expand...



You are a stupid fuck.


----------



## rikules

Lonestar_logic said:


> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> 
> Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
> 
> The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
> 
> In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
> 
> There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
> 
> Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
> 
> Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
> 
> Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
> 
> Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
> 
> More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
> 
> Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7






Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana

"Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use: "

1. I don't believe this.
I know too many people in their 40's 50's 60's who still smoke it and there is NO evidence in any of them of health problems

2. I don't believe it is addictive. I know too many people who STOPPED SMOKING IT cold turkey and NEVER had the urge to go back...
how addictive can it be if it is that easy to quit?

3. health problems?  the same can be said for tobacco, fatty foods, alcohol.
Yet I'm sure you would consider any legislation outlawing fatty foods, alcohol or tobacco exampes of left wing liberal big government intrusion on our private lives


"The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2. "

again
I don't see any of  this in the people who smoke it
and
people who drink suffer the same ill effects


if you don't mind these problems in drinkers...
why do you care so much in pot smokers?



"In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled."

I'd have to see some actual stats.
again...I have known too many people who smoked (still smoke) pot and none of them have ever had to go to the emergency room

and
LOTS of people end up sick or dying because of tobacco
and
LOTS of people end in emergency rooms because of alcohol...


"There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day."

again
not sure that I believe this
however
if you don't care that tobacco smokers (or fatty food eaters) get cancer why do you care if pot smokes do?


"Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette."

stats?
most people don't smoke a whole joint
as you contend in a few moments pot is much stronger these days so smokers smoke LESS OF IT for the same affect
where-as cigarette smokers tend to smoke LOTS of cigarettes per day

if you think tobacco should be legal and an individuals choice  then why not pot?


"Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana"


is this the same left wing harvard that you despise when they report things you don't beleve in?

again
heart failure....runners die from it
fatty food eaters and fat people die from it
tobacco smokers and alcohol drinkers

are you suggesting criminalizing fatty foods?
tobacco?
alcohol?



"Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence."

and yet I know MANY people who USE TO SMOKE it who one day said..."no mas!" and just stopped COLD TURKEY....



"More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999."

I don't recommend teens smoke pot OR tobacco OR drink alcohol until they reach adulthood


"Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7 "

which is great because now a little bit goes a LONG way....

I don't smoke it as much as I use to when I was in my 20's and 30's because I can't get it where I live.
occasionally a friend will visit with some and I find 2 hits off the pipe is all I need...

and I only smoke it (these days) 3 or 4 times a year.

if it were legal and I could get it over the counter I would definitely smoke it more often


----------



## topspin

the more potent has been debunked many times over
 inflation is why it's more costly
Cali is currently collecting many millions, so that debunks the fuck out of most will grow thier own bullshit.


----------



## topspin

Lonestar_logic said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a stupid fuck.
Click to expand...


 pot prohibition is almost as stupid as jaywalking. But you skipping college was stupid too.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

rikules said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> 
> Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
> 
> The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
> 
> In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
> 
> There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
> 
> Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
> 
> Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
> 
> Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
> 
> Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
> 
> More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
> 
> Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> "Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use: "
> 
> 1. I don't believe this.
> I know to omany people in their 40's 50's 60's who still smoke it and there is NO evidence in any of them of health problems
> 
> 2. I don't believe it is addictive. I know to omany people who STOPPED SMOKING IT cold turkey and NEVER had the urge to go back,,,
> how addictive can it be if it is that easy to quit?
> 
> 3. health problems?  the same can be said for tobacco, fatty foods, alcohol.
> Yet I'm sure you would consider any legislation outlawing fatty foods, alcohol or tobacco exampes of left wing liberal big government intrusion on our private lives
> 
> 
> "The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2. "
> 
> again
> I don't see any of  this in the people who smoke it
> and
> people who drink suffer the same ill effects
> 
> 
> if you don't mind these problems in drinkers...
> why do you care somuch in pot smokers?
> 
> 
> 
> "In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled."
> 
> I'd have to see some actual stats.
> again...I have kown to omany people who smoked (still smoke) pot and none of t hem have ever had to go to the emergency room
> 
> and
> LOTS of people end up sick or dying because of tobacco
> and
> LOTS of people end in emergency rooms because of alcohol...
> 
> 
> "There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day."
> 
> again
> not sure that I believe this
> however
> if you don't care that tobacco smokers (or fatty food eaters) get cancer why do you care if pot smokes do?
> 
> 
> "Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette."
> 
> stats?
> most people don't smoke a whole joint
> as you contend in a few moments pot is much stronger these days so smokers smoke LESS OF IT for the same affect
> where-as cigarette smokers tend to smokeLOTS of cigarettes per day
> 
> if you think tobacco should be legal and an individuals choice  then why not pot?
> 
> 
> "Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana"
> 
> 
> is this thge same left wing harvard that you despise when they report things you don't beleve in?
> 
> again
> heart failure....runners die from it
> fatty food eaters and fat people die from it
> tobacco smokers and alcohol drinkers
> 
> are you suggesting criminalizing fatty foods?
> tobacco?
> alcohol?
> 
> 
> 
> "Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence."
> 
> and yet I kow MANY people who USE TO SMOKE it who one day said..."no mas!" and just stopped COLD TURKEY....
> 
> 
> 
> "More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999."
> 
> I don't recommend teens smoke pot OR tobacco OR drink alcohol until they reach adulthood
> 
> 
> "Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7 "
> 
> which is great because now a little bit goes a LONG way....
> 
> I don't smoke it as much as I use to when I was in my 20's and 30's because I can't get it where I live.
> occasionally a friend will visit with some and I find 2 hits off the pipe is all I need...
> 
> and I only smoke it (these days) 3 or 4 times a year.
> 
> if it were legal and I could get it over the counter I would definitely smoke it more often
Click to expand...


No one is asking you to believe it. Just roll another one and don't worry about it.


----------



## ConHog

topspin said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for MJ being a gateway drug, there is an element of truth to this argument. However one must consider cause and effect.  Consider, by only a few degrees of seperation a person who chooses to buy MJ must come in contact with a professional criminal, and professionally criminals make their money by selling drugs other than MJ.
> Cutting the weed with other drugs is one way to introduce a user of MJ with stronger and more profitable substances, and of course while marketing a small amount of MJ a dealer might toss in a freebee, a little taste of speed or crack as a friendly gesture.
> 
> Kids use MJ. "Just say No" was a joke. We need to educate kids on the harm of drug use, and MJ is harmful to the physical development of the brain, expecially the linkage between the left and right hemispheres in teens and tweens. Any association with criminals is not what we want in terms of child development either, for some kids as well as grown-ups have already decided to sell drugs and caviet emptor is the operating ethos of that element.
> 
> Removing MJ from schedule I and allowing the States to ban or not makes sense. The regulated sale of MJ will provide some quality control, likely reduce the amount of illegal MJ on the streets and schoolyards and provide revenue for treatement and education.
> 
> Or, we can continue to do what we've done for the past 30 years and "Just say no".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think added revenue is a good argument to make when considering legalizing pot. Let's be honest.
> 
> A) Most are simply going to grow there own, unless of course you make THAT illegal, in which case you are of course still criminalizing aspects of pot, and most users wouldn't be happy about that.
> 
> and
> 
> B) The government would certainly just waste the money and we wouldn't even notice any net gain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> really to be honest, most don't grow now niether to cigarette smokers
> It's less dangerous than beer and regulating would make it harder for teens to get. But useless narc would lose jobs as well as GED's working as jailers.
Click to expand...


How about you take a hike junior and let the adults talk....

You are ridiculous. You can't even write legible sentences Mr MBA and you continuously call others uneducated?


----------



## rightwinger

Lonestar_logic said:


> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> 
> Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
> 
> The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
> 
> In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
> 
> There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
> 
> Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
> 
> Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
> 
> Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
> 
> Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
> 
> More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
> 
> Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7


----------



## topspin

go shoot an unarmed granny NARC, you morons can keep fighting Cali will show where normal people are on it. 60 to 40 to legalize.


----------



## Nate

topspin said:


> go shoot an unarmed granny NARC, you morons can keep fighting Cali will show where normal people are on it. 60 to 40 to legalize.



IMHO, It'll take more than one State to legalize it... The Federal Government will be quick to knock this one down seeing how they're so enrapt in controlling State's "rights"


----------



## rikules

Lonestar_logic said:


> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> 
> Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
> 
> The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
> 
> In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
> 
> There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
> 
> Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
> 
> Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
> 
> Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
> 
> Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
> 
> More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
> 
> Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> "Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use: "
> 
> 1. I don't believe this.
> I know to omany people in their 40's 50's 60's who still smoke it and there is NO evidence in any of them of health problems
> 
> 2. I don't believe it is addictive. I know to omany people who STOPPED SMOKING IT cold turkey and NEVER had the urge to go back,,,
> how addictive can it be if it is that easy to quit?
> 
> 3. health problems?  the same can be said for tobacco, fatty foods, alcohol.
> Yet I'm sure you would consider any legislation outlawing fatty foods, alcohol or tobacco exampes of left wing liberal big government intrusion on our private lives
> 
> 
> "The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2. "
> 
> again
> I don't see any of  this in the people who smoke it
> and
> people who drink suffer the same ill effects
> 
> 
> if you don't mind these problems in drinkers...
> why do you care somuch in pot smokers?
> 
> 
> 
> "In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled."
> 
> I'd have to see some actual stats.
> again...I have kown to omany people who smoked (still smoke) pot and none of t hem have ever had to go to the emergency room
> 
> and
> LOTS of people end up sick or dying because of tobacco
> and
> LOTS of people end in emergency rooms because of alcohol...
> 
> 
> "There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day."
> 
> again
> not sure that I believe this
> however
> if you don't care that tobacco smokers (or fatty food eaters) get cancer why do you care if pot smokes do?
> 
> 
> "Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette."
> 
> stats?
> most people don't smoke a whole joint
> as you contend in a few moments pot is much stronger these days so smokers smoke LESS OF IT for the same affect
> where-as cigarette smokers tend to smokeLOTS of cigarettes per day
> 
> if you think tobacco should be legal and an individuals choice  then why not pot?
> 
> 
> "Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana"
> 
> 
> is this thge same left wing harvard that you despise when they report things you don't beleve in?
> 
> again
> heart failure....runners die from it
> fatty food eaters and fat people die from it
> tobacco smokers and alcohol drinkers
> 
> are you suggesting criminalizing fatty foods?
> tobacco?
> alcohol?
> 
> 
> 
> "Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence."
> 
> and yet I kow MANY people who USE TO SMOKE it who one day said..."no mas!" and just stopped COLD TURKEY....
> 
> 
> 
> "More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999."
> 
> I don't recommend teens smoke pot OR tobacco OR drink alcohol until they reach adulthood
> 
> 
> "Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7 "
> 
> which is great because now a little bit goes a LONG way....
> 
> I don't smoke it as much as I use to when I was in my 20's and 30's because I can't get it where I live.
> occasionally a friend will visit with some and I find 2 hits off the pipe is all I need...
> 
> and I only smoke it (these days) 3 or 4 times a year.
> 
> if it were legal and I could get it over the counter I would definitely smoke it more often
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is asking you to believe it. Just roll another one and don't worry about it.
Click to expand...


well
it was nice to see that you could engage in civilized debate for at least a short term....

as I said (do you suffer from short term memory loss?)
I don't smoke it much these days because I can't get so I am not actually able to roll another one and even if I had some I NEVER rolled joints...I always smoked it in small doses in pipes.

and I still maintain that freedom loving people who oppose a nanny state and do NOT want government intruding in our private lives or telling us all how to live should SUPPORT legalization of pot


----------



## rikules

ConHog said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give much credence to a smalll government republican who is a History major and who's only job he can get is SUCKING THE SMALL GOVERNMENT TIT.
> 
> YOU ARE PART OF THE DARK AGE PROBLEM SIMPLETON
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not smart. There really is no other way to put it.
> 
> I didn't even voice an opinion in this thread about whether pot should be legalized yet here you are bashing me for my non stated opinion.
> 
> Can you argue the fact that pot is addictive for some? No you can't. Can you argue that for many pot was a gateway drug? No you can't. Those are both facts.
> 
> So of course you are reduced to infantile attacks.
> 
> I know you hate the military , but suggesting that those who chose that path did so either because they couldn't find a "real job" or because they wanted to suck on the government teet is just stupid. OMG you mean soldiers expect to be paid? The audacity!
> 
> In short, go away junior.
> 
> Now for the grown ups in the thread, I will post my opinion. Which by the way I have posted before. In my OPINION, it should be a state choice. No federal law either way on pot.
Click to expand...


"Can you argue the fact that pot is addictive for some? "

I often wonder if this isn't  a case of "addictive personalities!"?

SOME people are easily addicted to things....

if it isn't pot then it's alcohol
or candy
or sex

or message boards


----------



## ConHog

rikules said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give much credence to a smalll government republican who is a History major and who's only job he can get is SUCKING THE SMALL GOVERNMENT TIT.
> 
> YOU ARE PART OF THE DARK AGE PROBLEM SIMPLETON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are not smart. There really is no other way to put it.
> 
> I didn't even voice an opinion in this thread about whether pot should be legalized yet here you are bashing me for my non stated opinion.
> 
> Can you argue the fact that pot is addictive for some? No you can't. Can you argue that for many pot was a gateway drug? No you can't. Those are both facts.
> 
> So of course you are reduced to infantile attacks.
> 
> I know you hate the military , but suggesting that those who chose that path did so either because they couldn't find a "real job" or because they wanted to suck on the government teet is just stupid. OMG you mean soldiers expect to be paid? The audacity!
> 
> In short, go away junior.
> 
> Now for the grown ups in the thread, I will post my opinion. Which by the way I have posted before. In my OPINION, it should be a state choice. No federal law either way on pot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Can you argue the fact that pot is addictive for some? "
> 
> I often wonder if this isn't  a case of "addictive personalities!"?
> 
> SOME people are easily addicted to things....
> 
> if it isn't pot then it's alcohol
> or candy
> or sex
> 
> or message boards
Click to expand...


Oh for sure lots of things are addictive, but addiction alone isn't reason enough to outlaw something, only if it has other dangerous properties should that be considered. I am merely stating that those who say that pot absolutely isn't addictive are lying.


----------



## johnrocks

The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.


Weird that.


----------



## ConHog

johnrocks said:


> The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.
> 
> 
> Weird that.



Completely false, most libs want a federal law preventing states from making pot illegal.

True story


----------



## Dick Tuck

Lonestar_logic said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a stupid fuck.
Click to expand...


Perhaps, but why not show the difference between the posit in the OP and my claim?  Is there a fundamental difference to claiming that increased smoking of the evil weed is the cause of increased illegal drug use and stating that the obvious that jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations?


----------



## Dick Tuck

ConHog said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.
> 
> 
> Weird that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Completely false, most libs want a federal law preventing states from making pot illegal.
> 
> True story
Click to expand...


True story that you pulled directly out of your ass.


----------



## Dick Tuck

johnrocks said:


> The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.
> 
> 
> Weird that.



What's weird?  That cons have just used "State's rights" as a code for keeping the darkies down?  I know few libs that support the draconian drug laws we have on the books.  I know few libs that would try to fight against states having medicinal marijuana laws on the books.  Perhaps it's more a principled civil rights argument that you're confusing.


----------



## johnrocks

ConHog said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.
> 
> 
> Weird that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Completely false, most libs want a federal law preventing states from making pot illegal.
> 
> True story
Click to expand...


So are you in support of the State of California nullifying Federal law and legalizing marijuana?

I am for that one reason alone, not to mention I am for personal rights and responsibilities instead of wanting daddy government telling people what they can and can't eat,drink,smoke ,etc.


----------



## johnrocks

Dick Tuck said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.
> 
> 
> Weird that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's weird?  That cons have just used "State's rights" as a code for keeping the darkies down?  I know few libs that support the draconian drug laws we have on the books.  I know few libs that would try to fight against states having medicinal marijuana laws on the books.  Perhaps it's more a principled civil rights argument that you're confusing.
Click to expand...


So you support States nullifying Federal law pertaining to marijuana?

I am for that one reason alone, not to mention I am for personal rights and responsibilities instead of wanting daddy government telling people what they can and can't eat,drink,smoke ,etc.


----------



## Dick Tuck

johnrocks said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.
> 
> 
> Weird that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's weird?  That cons have just used "State's rights" as a code for keeping the darkies down?  I know few libs that support the draconian drug laws we have on the books.  I know few libs that would try to fight against states having medicinal marijuana laws on the books.  Perhaps it's more a principled civil rights argument that you're confusing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you support States nullifying Federal law pertaining to marijuana?
> 
> I am for that one reason alone, not to mention I am for personal rights and responsibilities instead of wanting daddy government telling people what they can and can't eat,drink,smoke ,etc.
Click to expand...


We agree, on an individual level.  I believe we are responsible for what we put into our bodies, and ought to expect our government to provide us with good information regarding our choices.   With marijuana, I don't see either.  Do I support State nullification as a matter of principle?  No.  I see it as a case by case issue.  I spit on the State's attempt to nullify civil rights law, because I see the individual liberties as paramount.


----------



## Nate

> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
> (Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans.
> 
> The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.



I will say that I find these numbers interesting since just the other day there was a thread on here stating that violent crime is at a 3 year low.... Hmmmm 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-crime-drops-for-the-third-straight-year.html


----------



## johnrocks

Dick Tuck said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's weird?  That cons have just used "State's rights" as a code for keeping the darkies down?  I know few libs that support the draconian drug laws we have on the books.  I know few libs that would try to fight against states having medicinal marijuana laws on the books.  Perhaps it's more a principled civil rights argument that you're confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you support States nullifying Federal law pertaining to marijuana?
> 
> I am for that one reason alone, not to mention I am for personal rights and responsibilities instead of wanting daddy government telling people what they can and can't eat,drink,smoke ,etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We agree, on an individual level.  I believe we are responsible for what we put into our bodies, and ought to expect our government to provide us with good information regarding our choices.   With marijuana, I don't see either.  Do I support State nullification as a matter of principle?  No.  I see it as a case by case issue.  I spit on the State's attempt to nullify civil rights law, because I see the individual liberties as paramount.
Click to expand...


Whatever you or I feel about it(State rights/individual rights/civil liberties), if the proposition passes in Ca., it will be in direct violation of Federal law, it may be the very issue that could one day make it to the S.C. and render a decision concerning the 9th and 10th Amendments


----------



## ConHog

johnrocks said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one issue where State's rights can be asserted and fought for and it seems that there are more libs on the side of State's rights than cons.
> 
> 
> Weird that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Completely false, most libs want a federal law preventing states from making pot illegal.
> 
> True story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are you in support of the State of California nullifying Federal law and legalizing marijuana?
> 
> I am for that one reason alone, not to mention I am for personal rights and responsibilities instead of wanting daddy government telling people what they can and can't eat,drink,smoke ,etc.
Click to expand...


Why don't you learn to read, and maybe do some research before you start letting your cake hole throw up your drivel. I and many other conservatives on this site posted long before this thread came around that we believe it should be a state level decision.


----------



## Bullfighter

Bill O'Olberman said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is as much a gateway drug as caffeine...
Click to expand...


I gave up coffee but I can't stop snorting creamer.


----------



## johnrocks

ConHog said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Completely false, most libs want a federal law preventing states from making pot illegal.
> 
> True story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So are you in support of the State of California nullifying Federal law and legalizing marijuana?
> 
> I am for that one reason alone, not to mention I am for personal rights and responsibilities instead of wanting daddy government telling people what they can and can't eat,drink,smoke ,etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you learn to read, and maybe do some research before you start letting your cake hole throw up your drivel. I and many other conservatives on this site posted long before this thread came around that we believe it should be a state level decision.
Click to expand...


No need  to be an ass hole when someone is merely asking a question.  If you are for it being a State Right issue, that is all that you needed to state, I just recently started back posting here, didn't know your position..

BTW, I'm an "old right" conservative.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

topspin said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a stupid fuck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> pot prohibition is almost as stupid as jaywalking. But you skipping college was stupid too.
Click to expand...


Look, everyone knows that you're a high school dropout so you can stop pretending. 

Comparing an illegal substance to jaywalking is proof that you possess a limited amount of education.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Dick Tuck said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a stupid fuck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but why not show the difference between the posit in the OP and my claim?  Is there a fundamental difference to claiming that increased smoking of the evil weed is the cause of increased illegal drug use and stating that the obvious that jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations?
Click to expand...


First show evidence that jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations on a scale akin to the government report about the use of marijuana.


----------



## rightwinger

Lonestar_logic said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a stupid fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but why not show the difference between the posit in the OP and my claim?  Is there a fundamental difference to claiming that increased smoking of the evil weed is the cause of increased illegal drug use and stating that the obvious that jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First show evidence that jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations on a scale akin to the government report about the use of marijuana.
Click to expand...


Increases in jaywalking are directly tied to increases in marijuana use


----------



## Lonestar_logic

rightwinger said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps, but why not show the difference between the posit in the OP and my claim?  Is there a fundamental difference to claiming that increased smoking of the evil weed is the cause of increased illegal drug use and stating that the obvious that jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First show evidence that jaywalking is to blame for increased pedestrian traffic violations on a scale akin to the government report about the use of marijuana.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Increases in jaywalking are directly tied to increases in marijuana use
Click to expand...


Spoken like a typical troll.


----------



## topspin

lonestar GED I have and MBA and prob make twice what you do. Smoke through grad school while achieving a 3.88 GPA.  The founding fathers grew and smoked pot. You don't read much so you likely don't know that. The laws are racist, you probably like that part of it.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

topspin said:


> lonestar GED I have and MBA and prob make twice what you do. Smoke through grad school while achieving a 3.88 GPA.  *The founding fathers* grew and *smoked pot*. You don't read much so you likely don't know that. The laws are racist, you probably like that part of it.



The only thing you have is vivid imagination. 

Prove your claim.


----------



## Jack Fate

I think we should round up all the muslim terrorists and lock them in a room with marijuana, Beatles records, and tons of chips.

I predict world peace.


----------



## rikules

topspin said:


> lonestar GED I have and MBA and prob make twice what you do. Smoke through grad school while achieving a 3.88 GPA.  The founding fathers grew and smoked pot. You don't read much so you likely don't know that. The laws are racist, you probably like that part of it.



I have seen evidence that the founding fathers GREW hemp (which isn't real pot...right?)
I have seen NO REAL EVIDENCE that they SMOKED pot....

though I have read OPINIONS that claimed our founding fathers were smoking it when they were gathered together discussing the revolution....

I have, however, seen one reference to lincoln saying that he liked nothing better than sitting on his porch smoking pot....

12 Presidents Who Allegedly Smoked Weed | Politics


12 Presidents Who Allegedly Smoked Weed

George Washington (read: his slaves) grew hemp on his farm. Some people believe he used marijuana to help his chronic tooth aches. He also supposedly preferred his hemp pipe over alcohol and loved how it smelled. 

Thomas Jefferson (read: his slaves) also grew hemp. He drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper. And he supposedly hated smoking tobacco. Some of my finest hours have been spent on the back of my veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as the eye can see. is something Jefferson supposedly said in 1781, according to the Internet. One source even said that Washington and Jefferson exchanged smoking blends as personal gifts. 


Monroe began smoking weed as an Ambassador to France and continued smoking it until he was 73. Or so the story goes. 

Jackson was a military man who supposedly smoked with his troops. 

Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica.  Abraham Lincoln (from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany). That quote was listed on HuffPo, but commenters noticed they couldnt find it anywhere reputable.


----------



## Jack Fate

Didn't Andrew Jackson smoke weed and  play a Fender bass?


----------



## eots

Clinton smoked weed a played the sax


----------



## ConHog

Lonestar_logic said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> lonestar GED I have and MBA and prob make twice what you do. Smoke through grad school while achieving a 3.88 GPA.  *The founding fathers* grew and *smoked pot*. You don't read much so you likely don't know that. The laws are racist, you probably like that part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing you have is vivid imagination.
> 
> Prove your claim.
Click to expand...


LOL last week the fool claimed his son played for the 2003 LSU Tigers. When asked number and position he ran from the thread. 

That bitch is still in high school, I guarantee you that.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is good news because it shows less reliance on harder drugs
> 
> Another example of why marajuana use should be legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give us the names of people who smoke pot yet never took any other drug? They don't exist.
Click to expand...


and yet i knew dozens of people who did all kinds of drugs first,and then settled on Pot because they felt it wasnt as bad on them .....and they were able to handle it much easier....some of them looked at it like having a beer or two after work....


----------



## Harry Dresden

topspin said:


> Rightwingtools want small government my ass.
> Pot is way less dangerous than beer or cigarettes and is now prescribed for dozens of medical ailments by doctors.
> you assholes on the right love wars of choice so I'm not upset you lose millions of votes on this issue.
> It lines right up with your hate of minorities as the initial reason to ban was sold with racism.



hey Tops.....i know many leftwingers who are adamantly against this ......and i know many on the right who are for the legalization of this....so lets not be a Deanbot here....ok?....


----------



## Charles_Main

Bullfighter said:


> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
> (Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans.
> 
> The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.
> 
> Authorities are especially concerned about use of illicit drugs by young people. The survey by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found 21.2 percent of young adults experimented with illegal drugs in 2009. The report says the trend "was also driven in large part by the use of marijuana."
> 
> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske told CBS Radio News, young people are being exposed to "mixed messages" about marijuana including the idea that it is a medicine.
> 
> The "drug czar" said marijuana "may have properties that have medicinal values that should be tested" but he insisted it is not medicine.
> 
> Kerlikowske views marijuana as "an entry drug." The survey found that for the first time since 2002, less than half of young people believe using marijuana is harmful.
> 
> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana.
> 
> CBSNews.com Special Report: Marijuana Nation
> Coincidentally, the survey is being released as California voters consider a November ballot issue on legalizing pot.
> 
> Proponents believe the move would ease crowded court dockets and weaken Mexican drug cartels. Kerlikowske and many veteran former federal drug enforcement officials reject those ideas.
> 
> The president's drug adviser said it is a "false argument" to say marijuana legalization would reduce cartel violence in Mexico. Kerlikowske, a former police chief and undercover narcotics detective, noted, "Taking one small part of the (cartel) enterprise, marijuana away from them isn't going to change them."
> 
> He concedes the drug gangs south of the border can not be totally defeated but he believes "their impact and their violence can be reduced."
> 
> While the report emphasizes the detrimental effects of marijuana, Kerlikowske says abuse of prescription drugs rises to the top of his concerns because, "young people don't perceive them as dangerous or addictive."
> 
> He said the availability of prescription medications in home medicine cabinets often makes them widely available and attractive to young people. The non-medical use of prescription drugs notched up slightly to nearly three percent of the population.
> 
> The annual survey offered some encouraging news. It showed decreasing levels of tobacco use to a new low level of 23.3 percent. But the report warned, "The pace of improvement is stagnating."
> 
> The administration's drug control strategy emphasizes prevention and treatment along with law enforcement. Kerlikowske told CBS News, "We have had a focus of a criminal justice lens on drug abuse for quite a while." He added, "It should be a blend" that includes prevention and education.
> 
> The administration is seeking a 13 percent increase in funding for the federal drug abuse prevention effort.
> 
> The drug control policy chief rejects the term, "War on Drugs."
> 
> He said, "If we approach it with the same level of complexity that we approach things like cancer, I think we're better off than telling the American public, here's a bumper sticker to solve your problem."
> 
> The survey covers the transition year as President Obama took office. Next year's report will be the first true test of any initial results from the administration's approach to a drug abuse problem that has been a national challenge for decades.
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.



Total BS, people are using more drugs to escape the reality that is the US economic and political situation today.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Nate said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be legal, the hard core religious right will just need to be pulled into the 21st century kicking and screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you topspin, it will eventually be legal again... That said, until then it is still ILLEGAL and I will show little pity for those ignorant enough to get caught smoking/with it.
Click to expand...


why?.....whats going to happen?.....


----------



## Harry Dresden

rikules said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> morning conhog....
> 
> I'm not sure how addictive it really is....
> 
> my experience;
> 
> i've known lots of people who smoked pot until....late 20s?  early 30's?
> 
> who decided to stop smoking for one reason or another (settling down? raising a family?)
> 
> anyway
> I noticed that every one who stopped (and they don't all stop...many keep smoking until they die of old age but NOT cancer)....
> just quit....cold turkey...
> 
> no night sweats
> no panic attacks
> no desperation to get more....
> 
> they just stopped smoking and that was that.....
> 
> seems to me a REALLY ADDICTIVE substance would have been more difficult for them to give up
> 
> as for aggression....
> I don't know your experiences but MOST of us who smoked or knew people who smoked saw people (pot smokers) who were NOT violent and far more inclined to just talk
> 
> I know LOTS of musicians and almost ALL of them smoke pot (still, even in their 40's 50's 60's...willie nelson!)
> 
> not a violent person among them
> 
> I know a couple of guys who, at night, after supper, will smoke a little pot, retreat to their cellars and spend hours working on making/building furniture and cabinets. These guys make really good stuff, too...
> 
> back in my 20's and early 30's my friends and I would get together on a saturday afternoon, smoke a little pot and play basketballl or frisbee (ultimate or frolf)
> 
> and many people still find pot to be an aphrodisiac
> 
> I don't smoke it much anymore these days (can't get it! if it was legal I'd be a more regular toker) but when I do the first thing I think of is "getting it on" with my woman....
> 
> anyway
> it's probably less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol
> and in a freedom loving country with citizens who believe in smaller government and keeping the government out of our private lives it really should be legal
Click to expand...


i have to agree here.....i knew many who smoked a long time,myself included,stopped without no problems.......also the only violent Pot smokers i knew were either drinking or were doing speed or something along those lines....


----------



## Charles_Main

Harry Dresden said:


> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> morning conhog....
> 
> I'm not sure how addictive it really is....
> 
> my experience;
> 
> i've known lots of people who smoked pot until....late 20s?  early 30's?
> 
> who decided to stop smoking for one reason or another (settling down? raising a family?)
> 
> anyway
> I noticed that every one who stopped (and they don't all stop...many keep smoking until they die of old age but NOT cancer)....
> just quit....cold turkey...
> 
> no night sweats
> no panic attacks
> no desperation to get more....
> 
> they just stopped smoking and that was that.....
> 
> seems to me a REALLY ADDICTIVE substance would have been more difficult for them to give up
> 
> as for aggression....
> I don't know your experiences but MOST of us who smoked or knew people who smoked saw people (pot smokers) who were NOT violent and far more inclined to just talk
> 
> I know LOTS of musicians and almost ALL of them smoke pot (still, even in their 40's 50's 60's...willie nelson!)
> 
> not a violent person among them
> 
> I know a couple of guys who, at night, after supper, will smoke a little pot, retreat to their cellars and spend hours working on making/building furniture and cabinets. These guys make really good stuff, too...
> 
> back in my 20's and early 30's my friends and I would get together on a saturday afternoon, smoke a little pot and play basketballl or frisbee (ultimate or frolf)
> 
> and many people still find pot to be an aphrodisiac
> 
> I don't smoke it much anymore these days (can't get it! if it was legal I'd be a more regular toker) but when I do the first thing I think of is "getting it on" with my woman....
> 
> anyway
> it's probably less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol
> and in a freedom loving country with citizens who believe in smaller government and keeping the government out of our private lives it really should be legal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i have to agree here.....i knew many who smoked a long time,myself included,stopped without no problems.......also the only violent Pot smokers i knew were either drinking or were doing speed or something along those lines....
Click to expand...


Yep. Pot is about as dangerous and flowers and spice and everything nice


----------



## Bullfighter

rikules said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> lonestar GED I have and MBA and prob make twice what you do. Smoke through grad school while achieving a 3.88 GPA.  The founding fathers grew and smoked pot. You don't read much so you likely don't know that. The laws are racist, you probably like that part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have seen evidence that the founding fathers GREW hemp (which isn't real pot...right?)
> I have seen NO REAL EVIDENCE that they SMOKED pot....
> 
> though I have read OPINIONS that claimed our founding fathers were smoking it when they were gathered together discussing the revolution....
> 
> I have, however, seen one reference to lincoln saying that he liked nothing better than sitting on his porch smoking pot....
> 
> 12 Presidents Who Allegedly Smoked Weed | Politics
> 
> 
> 12 Presidents Who Allegedly Smoked Weed
> 
> George Washington (read: his slaves) grew hemp on his farm. Some people believe he used marijuana to help his chronic tooth aches. He also supposedly preferred his hemp pipe over alcohol and loved how it smelled.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson (read: his slaves) also grew hemp. He drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper. And he supposedly hated smoking tobacco. Some of my finest hours have been spent on the back of my veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as the eye can see. is something Jefferson supposedly said in 1781, according to the Internet. One source even said that Washington and Jefferson exchanged smoking blends as personal gifts.
> 
> 
> Monroe began smoking weed as an Ambassador to France and continued smoking it until he was 73. Or so the story goes.
> 
> Jackson was a military man who supposedly smoked with his troops.
> 
> Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica.  Abraham Lincoln (from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany). That quote was listed on HuffPo, but commenters noticed they couldnt find it anywhere reputable.
Click to expand...


Didn't Kennedy and the Joint Chiefs smoke dope when they planned "The Bay of Pigs Invasion"? That would have explained a lot!


----------



## Lonestar_logic

ConHog said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> lonestar GED I have and MBA and prob make twice what you do. Smoke through grad school while achieving a 3.88 GPA.  *The founding fathers* grew and *smoked pot*. You don't read much so you likely don't know that. The laws are racist, you probably like that part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing you have is vivid imagination.
> 
> Prove your claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL last week the fool claimed his son played for the 2003 LSU Tigers. When asked number and position he ran from the thread.
> 
> That bitch is still in high school, I guarantee you that.
Click to expand...


I don't know Conhog, I'm thinking the stooge is a high school reject.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Lonestar_logic said:


> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> 
> Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
> 
> The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
> 
> In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
> 
> There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
> 
> Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
> 
> Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
> 
> Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
> 
> Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
> 
> More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
> 
> Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7



Christ Lonestar at least use a no-biased source.....the DEA?.....come on Dude....


----------



## Nate

Harry Dresden said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be legal, the hard core religious right will just need to be pulled into the 21st century kicking and screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you topspin, it will eventually be legal again... That said, until then it is still ILLEGAL and I will show little pity for those ignorant enough to get caught smoking/with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why?.....whats going to happen?.....
Click to expand...


Well if I'm not mistaken, those caught with or smoking it will face some type of retribution from the judicial system...


----------



## Bullfighter

rikules;2740718
Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp said:
			
		

> Wasn't Lincoln smoking dope at Ford's Theatre when he dared any  cross dressing homosexual Southern actor to come up and shoot him?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Harry Dresden said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> 
> Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
> 
> The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
> 
> In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
> 
> There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
> 
> Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
> 
> Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
> 
> Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
> 
> Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
> 
> More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
> 
> Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christ Lonestar at least use a no-biased source.....the DEA?.....come on Dude....
Click to expand...


They listed each source. 

1Herbert Kleber, Mitchell Rosenthal, "Drug Myths from Abroad: Leniency is Dangerous, not Compassionate" Foreign Affairs Magazine, September/October 1998. Drug Watch International "NIDA Director cites Studies that Marijuana is Addictive." "Research Finds Marijuana is Addictive," Washington Times, July 24, 1995. 
2National Institue of Drug Abuse, Journal of the American Medical Association, Journal of Clinical Phamacology, International Journal of Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, Pharmacology Review. 
3"Marijuana and Heart Attacks" Washington Post, March 3, 2000
4I. B. Adams and BR Martin, "Cannabis: Pharmacology and Toxicology in Animals and Humans" Addiction 91: 1585-1614. 1996. 
5National Institute of Drug Abuse, "Smoking Any Substance Raises Risk of Lung Infections" NIDA Notes, Volume 12, Number 1, January/February 1997. 
6Dr. James Dobson, "Marijuana Can Cause Great Harm" Washington Times, February 23, 1999.
72000 National Drug Control Strategy Annual Report, page 13. 
8"Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Institute of Medicine, 1999. 
9See footnotes in response to question 4 regarding marijuana's short and long term health effects.
10"Marijuana Appetite Boost Lacking in Cancer Study" The New York Times, May 13, 2001.
11Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health.
12Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health. 

You're welcome to check it for yourself.


----------



## topspin

I'm not putting personal info in detail for you nut jobs.
 I had 3 college athlete sons, 1 football/baseball, 2 wrestling at Iowa.
 Personally I could never have even made my high school team, I boxed and got a black belt.

 I wish you haters would read up on the issue, if it was good enough for the founding fathers you so called small gov conservatives shouldn't give a shit if an adult smokes in his own home.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Nate said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you topspin, it will eventually be legal again... That said, until then it is still ILLEGAL and I will show little pity for those ignorant enough to get caught smoking/with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why?.....whats going to happen?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well if I'm not mistaken, those caught with or smoking it will face some type of retribution from the judicial system...
Click to expand...


what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...


----------



## topspin

Harry Dresden said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightwingtools want small government my ass.
> Pot is way less dangerous than beer or cigarettes and is now prescribed for dozens of medical ailments by doctors.
> you assholes on the right love wars of choice so I'm not upset you lose millions of votes on this issue.
> It lines right up with your hate of minorities as the initial reason to ban was sold with racism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey Tops.....i know many leftwingers who are adamantly against this ......and i know many on the right who are for the legalization of this....so lets not be a Deanbot here....ok?....
Click to expand...


 so do I, however take a look at votes it's lopsided for dems in favor of ending prohibition and conservatives supporting prohibition.


----------



## Charles_Main

topspin said:


> I'm not putting personal info in detail for you nut jobs.
> I had 3 college athlete sons, 1 football/baseball, 2 wrestling at Iowa.
> Personally I could never have even made my high school team, I boxed and got a black belt.
> 
> I wish you haters would read up on the issue, if it was good enough for the founding fathers you so called small gov conservatives shouldn't give a shit if an adult smokes in his own home.



I love how the guy who is always making bold generalized comments about anyone who is not a Liberal Democrat. is now crying about us "haters"

It is clear that you hate Conservatives, It is also clear you do no know what all conservatives think. Here you are still implying all conservatives give a shit what people smoke in their own homes. when in fact there are several Conservatives on this thread who have shown the do not.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Lonestar_logic said:


> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that were this a government report telling us something you didn't agree with you would be explaining how it can't be trusted.
> 
> pot is no  more dangerous than alcohol
> in a free country pot shoud be legal
> 
> in a country in which the people believe the government should stay out of our private lives pot would be legal
> 
> people who oppse a nanny state shoud support legalization of pot
> 
> people who don't want OTHER people telling THEM how to live should support the legalization of pot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.
> 
> Why not make all drugs legal.
Click to expand...


The fallacy of the slippery slope argument.


----------



## Jack Fate

Medical marijuana is legal in my state.  I have a plant ready to harvest in a couple weeks.  I'm allowed to grow 15 plants legally.  That's a lot of weed. 

And I am pretty conservative.


----------



## ConHog

Harry Dresden said:


> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> morning conhog....
> 
> I'm not sure how addictive it really is....
> 
> my experience;
> 
> i've known lots of people who smoked pot until....late 20s?  early 30's?
> 
> who decided to stop smoking for one reason or another (settling down? raising a family?)
> 
> anyway
> I noticed that every one who stopped (and they don't all stop...many keep smoking until they die of old age but NOT cancer)....
> just quit....cold turkey...
> 
> no night sweats
> no panic attacks
> no desperation to get more....
> 
> they just stopped smoking and that was that.....
> 
> seems to me a REALLY ADDICTIVE substance would have been more difficult for them to give up
> 
> as for aggression....
> I don't know your experiences but MOST of us who smoked or knew people who smoked saw people (pot smokers) who were NOT violent and far more inclined to just talk
> 
> I know LOTS of musicians and almost ALL of them smoke pot (still, even in their 40's 50's 60's...willie nelson!)
> 
> not a violent person among them
> 
> I know a couple of guys who, at night, after supper, will smoke a little pot, retreat to their cellars and spend hours working on making/building furniture and cabinets. These guys make really good stuff, too...
> 
> back in my 20's and early 30's my friends and I would get together on a saturday afternoon, smoke a little pot and play basketballl or frisbee (ultimate or frolf)
> 
> and many people still find pot to be an aphrodisiac
> 
> I don't smoke it much anymore these days (can't get it! if it was legal I'd be a more regular toker) but when I do the first thing I think of is "getting it on" with my woman....
> 
> anyway
> it's probably less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol
> and in a freedom loving country with citizens who believe in smaller government and keeping the government out of our private lives it really should be legal
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i have to agree here.....i knew many who smoked a long time,myself included,stopped without no problems.......also the only violent Pot smokers i knew were either drinking or were doing speed or something along those lines....
Click to expand...


Except for the assholes who lace their pot with LSD or something similar. Or do you not consider them to be pot users anymore?


----------



## Charles_Main

ConHog said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> morning conhog....
> 
> I'm not sure how addictive it really is....
> 
> my experience;
> 
> i've known lots of people who smoked pot until....late 20s?  early 30's?
> 
> who decided to stop smoking for one reason or another (settling down? raising a family?)
> 
> anyway
> I noticed that every one who stopped (and they don't all stop...many keep smoking until they die of old age but NOT cancer)....
> just quit....cold turkey...
> 
> no night sweats
> no panic attacks
> no desperation to get more....
> 
> they just stopped smoking and that was that.....
> 
> seems to me a REALLY ADDICTIVE substance would have been more difficult for them to give up
> 
> as for aggression....
> I don't know your experiences but MOST of us who smoked or knew people who smoked saw people (pot smokers) who were NOT violent and far more inclined to just talk
> 
> I know LOTS of musicians and almost ALL of them smoke pot (still, even in their 40's 50's 60's...willie nelson!)
> 
> not a violent person among them
> 
> I know a couple of guys who, at night, after supper, will smoke a little pot, retreat to their cellars and spend hours working on making/building furniture and cabinets. These guys make really good stuff, too...
> 
> back in my 20's and early 30's my friends and I would get together on a saturday afternoon, smoke a little pot and play basketballl or frisbee (ultimate or frolf)
> 
> and many people still find pot to be an aphrodisiac
> 
> I don't smoke it much anymore these days (can't get it! if it was legal I'd be a more regular toker) but when I do the first thing I think of is "getting it on" with my woman....
> 
> anyway
> it's probably less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol
> and in a freedom loving country with citizens who believe in smaller government and keeping the government out of our private lives it really should be legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have to agree here.....i knew many who smoked a long time,myself included,stopped without no problems.......also the only violent Pot smokers i knew were either drinking or were doing speed or something along those lines....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the assholes who lace their pot with LSD or something similar. Or do you not consider them to be pot users anymore?
Click to expand...


Spoken like somebody who has never bought or sold, or smoked Pot.

That is a BS line the government uses to scare people about Pot. There are no dealers who lace their shit with expensive crap Like PCP and do not tell you about it when you but it. So they can charge more.

And LCD? if you knew anything at all you would know you don't lace weed with LCD. As you do not get the effects from it when you Burn it up. 

The idea that dealers lace their pot with expensive harder drugs and then do not tell people it is in there. Is laughable. exposes your intense ignorance about the subject.


----------



## ConHog

Harry Dresden said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> why?.....whats going to happen?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well if I'm not mistaken, those caught with or smoking it will face some type of retribution from the judicial system...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...
Click to expand...


When I worked with the drug task force we didn't bother with pot unless

A) it was over a pound
B) we found it in conjunction with other drugs

Now granted , 99% of the time when we served a warrant there were in fact other drugs present, but sometimes  even then pot was ignored. 

Case in point, we served a warrant on this house because the guy who lived there was suspected of selling meth. Lots of meth in his house, pus untold guns, money, etc etc. And in granny's nightstand? 6 oz of pot . Turned out granny had glaucoma. Now we do not allow medical pot in Arkansas, but the DEA agent who was in charge slipped the pot back in granny's nightstand told her to have a good night and instructed all of us to forget we ever saw that pot.  Mr Meth went to prison.

SO this BS about people getting busted for simple possession of pot is just so much garbage.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Lonestar_logic said:


> You're welcome to check it for yourself.



sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;


----------



## topspin

the politicians are behind the people for sure, there are many conservatives here who think it should be up to the states some who smoke though most seem not too.

 I hate on democrats too, it's just that I think this is the biggest issue holding the country back and in general democrats oppose prohibition way more than republicans.


----------



## Charles_Main

topspin said:


> the politicians are behind the people for sure, there are many conservatives here who think it should be up to the states some who smoke though most seem not too.
> 
> I hate on democrats too, it's just that I think this is the biggest issue holding the country back and in general democrats oppose prohibition way more than republicans.



True, But the board generalizations get pretty old man.


----------



## topspin

ConHog said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well if I'm not mistaken, those caught with or smoking it will face some type of retribution from the judicial system...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I worked with the drug task force we didn't bother with pot unless
> 
> A) it was over a pound
> B) we found it in conjunction with other drugs
> 
> Now granted , 99% of the time when we served a warrant there were in fact other drugs present, but sometimes  even then pot was ignored.
> 
> Case in point, we served a warrant on this house because the guy who lived there was suspected of selling meth. Lots of meth in his house, pus untold guns, money, etc etc. And in granny's nightstand? 6 oz of pot . Turned out granny had glaucoma. Now we do not allow medical pot in Arkansas, but the DEA agent who was in charge slipped the pot back in granny's nightstand told her to have a good night and instructed all of us to forget we ever saw that pot.  Mr Meth went to prison.
> 
> SO this BS about people getting busted for simple possession of pot is just so much garbage.
Click to expand...


 I respect what you do for sure, the razzing is bullshit. That said people get busted plenty for just a couple plants. I can't say if they actually do jail time, you'd certainly know better.
 it will be legal in a decade or two, we'll collect billions in taxes, save billions in legal and police cost and kids will have a much harder time finding pot. I am in now way in favor of reducing meth, heroin and any other hard drugs Penalties. Free up the jail space for rapist and armed robbers there are plenty of them.


----------



## Charles_Main

Double post


----------



## Charles_Main

topspin said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I worked with the drug task force we didn't bother with pot unless
> 
> A) it was over a pound
> B) we found it in conjunction with other drugs
> 
> Now granted , 99% of the time when we served a warrant there were in fact other drugs present, but sometimes  even then pot was ignored.
> 
> Case in point, we served a warrant on this house because the guy who lived there was suspected of selling meth. Lots of meth in his house, pus untold guns, money, etc etc. And in granny's nightstand? 6 oz of pot . Turned out granny had glaucoma. Now we do not allow medical pot in Arkansas, but the DEA agent who was in charge slipped the pot back in granny's nightstand told her to have a good night and instructed all of us to forget we ever saw that pot.  Mr Meth went to prison.
> 
> SO this BS about people getting busted for simple possession of pot is just so much garbage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I respect what you do for sure, the razzing is bullshit. That said people get busted plenty for just a couple plants. I can't say if they actually do jail time, you'd certainly know better.
> it will be legal in a decade or two, we'll collect billions in taxes, save billions in legal and police cost and kids will have a much harder time finding pot. I am in now way in favor of reducing meth, heroin and any other hard drugs Penalties. Free up the jail space for rapist and armed robbers there are plenty of them.
Click to expand...


He is right that most simple possession does not lead to jail time. Where he is not being honest is saying they "get off" what they get is talked into rolling over on some bigger fish. 

Busting the little guys and Holding jail time over their heads is the main way Drug task forces make arrests on the bigger fish. 

The point IMO is nobody should ever serve jail time for buying, selling, or smoking a Fucking Herb.


----------



## Nate

Harry Dresden said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> why?.....whats going to happen?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well if I'm not mistaken, those caught with or smoking it will face some type of retribution from the judicial system...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...
Click to expand...


Varies State to State. Here in Ok;


> Code Section Tit. 63 §2-101, et seq.
> Possession Misdemeanor with penalty of up to 1 yr. or fined $10,000; Subsequent offense: felony, 2-10 yrs. Fine not to exceed $25,000; Within 1000 feet of school or in presence of child under 12: up to double penalties; subsequent offense: up to triple penalties
> Sale Felony, 2-10 yrs. and/or up to $5000; Subsequent offense: double penalties
> Trafficking Between 25-1000 lbs.: $25,000 to $100,000; Over 1000 lbs.: $100,000 to $500,000
> 
> Oklahoma Marijuana Laws - OK Marijuana Laws - FindLaw for the Public


----------



## Nate

Needless to say here in the Sooner State, you get caught with even a little you're not just going to walk away with a ticket(unless you're dealing with a REALLY cool cop)


----------



## jillian

Charles_Main said:


> He is right that most simple possession does not lead to jail time. Where he is not being honest is saying the "get off" what they get is talked into rolling over on some bigger fish.
> 
> Busting the little guys and Holding jail time over their heads is the main way Drug task forces make arrests on the bigger fish.
> 
> The point IMO is nobody should ever serve jail time for buying, selling, or smoking a Fucking Herb.



and people caught with sell-weight, at least here in ny had to face the rockefeller drug laws... stupid as hell way to waste lives and resources.


----------



## topspin

In Louisiana we had a teacher of the year jailed for selling a couple ounces. She and her husband had 5 or six plants and were caught in a bar trying to sell to an under cover cop. Sad but true


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Harry Dresden said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome to check it for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
Click to expand...


Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?


----------



## ABikerSailor

The second half of my career, I decided to become a Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor (DAPA).  This required that I go to school, and learn about alcohol, cannabis, and all the other drugs.  We were educated on the effects, how to spot people using, as well as other things.

Now, during that time, after all the research that I'd done, I decided that when I was completely out of the military, I would consider trying cannabis, because based on all the information that I had read in the military, I figured that it had no damaging effects on the body or mind.

6 months or so, after I'd done a great deal more research from places like Harvard Medical and British Medical society, as well as other references (many came from NORML), and I decided to give it a try.  Based on my own experimentation as well as just about everything else I could get from LEGITIMATE (i.e. real doctors and scientists who worked for a reputable organization), there is nothing wrong with cannabis.

Incidentally, in Israel back in biblical times, cannabis was an ingredient in the Holy Annointing Oil of the Kings of Israel.  Archaeological evidence has also been unearthed dating back to those times showing there was both medical and recreational use that those people did.

And, considering the whole reason it was made illegal in the first place (racism.....Anslinger wanted a way to lock up the brown and black people, and because they were the primary users of cannabis, he was FBI and made it illegal), I'd be willing to say that it was made illegal for the wrong reasons and should be legalized now.

Interestingly enough, Nixon wanted a report done on the dangers of pot, so he commissioned a study called "The Laguardia Report".  Upon finding that it was favorable towards cannabis, he threw the whole thing into the trash.

If you'd like to get a true history of marijuana in this country, go to the video store sometime and rent a movie called "Grass" which is narrated by Woody Harrelson.

Trust me.......it's an eye opening documentary.


----------



## Mr Natural

ABikerSailor said:


> The second half of my career, I decided to become a Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor (DAPA).  This required that I go to school, and learn about alcohol, cannabis, and all the other drugs.  We were educated on the effects, how to spot people using, as well as other things.
> 
> Now, during that time, after all the research that I'd done, I decided that when I was completely out of the military, I would consider trying cannabis, because based on all the information that I had read in the military, I figured that it had no damaging effects on the body or mind.
> 
> 6 months or so, after I'd done a great deal more research from places like Harvard Medical and British Medical society, as well as other references (many came from NORML), and I decided to give it a try.  Based on my own experimentation as well as just about everything else I could get from LEGITIMATE (i.e. real doctors and scientists who worked for a reputable organization), there is nothing wrong with cannabis.
> 
> Incidentally, in Israel back in biblical times, cannabis was an ingredient in the Holy Annointing Oil of the Kings of Israel.  Archaeological evidence has also been unearthed dating back to those times showing there was both medical and recreational use that those people did.
> 
> And, considering the whole reason it was made illegal in the first place (racism.....Anslinger wanted a way to lock up the brown and black people, and because they were the primary users of cannabis, he was FBI and made it illegal), I'd be willing to say that it was made illegal for the wrong reasons and should be legalized now.
> 
> Interestingly enough, Nixon wanted a report done on the dangers of pot, so he commissioned a study called "The Laguardia Report".  Upon finding that it was favorable towards cannabis, he threw the whole thing into the trash.
> 
> *If you'd like to get a true history of marijuana in this country, go to the video store sometime and rent a movie called "Grass" which is narrated by Woody Harrelson.*
> 
> Trust me.......it's an eye opening documentary.




No thanks, I learned everything I needed to know about the evils of the "Demon Weed" from watching Reefer Madness.


----------



## Charles_Main

jillian said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is right that most simple possession does not lead to jail time. Where he is not being honest is saying the "get off" what they get is talked into rolling over on some bigger fish.
> 
> Busting the little guys and Holding jail time over their heads is the main way Drug task forces make arrests on the bigger fish.
> 
> The point IMO is nobody should ever serve jail time for buying, selling, or smoking a Fucking Herb.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and people caught with sell-weight, at least here in ny had to face the rockefeller drug laws... stupid as hell way to waste lives and resources.
Click to expand...


Absolutely. The amount of Dollars, and time, and lives wasted by this war on a Herb are testimony to just how Stupid it is. 

I want Weed legalized and taxed. As for the harder drugs, I do not think I would go as far as legalizing them outright. But some form of decriminalization to remove the massive profits to be made from them I would consider.


----------



## Gadawg73

Prescription drugs that are easily available via your neighborhood doctor any time you want them and are far more dangerous than heroin.
And you clowns believe reefer is the gateway to the prescription pills?
Marijuana is almost harmless. 
Tobacco is the biggest killer and the worst drug out there.


----------



## Charles_Main

Gadawg73 said:


> Prescription drugs that are easily available via your neighborhood doctor any time you want them and are far more dangerous than heroin.
> And you clowns believe reefer is the gateway to the prescription pills?
> Marijuana is almost harmless.
> Tobacco is the biggest killer and the worst drug out there.



With Alcohol a close second.


----------



## Gadawg73

Lonestar_logic said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome to check it for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
Click to expand...


DEA is a government bureaucracy. They want to continue having jobs and funding.
I have worked many a drug case in my 30 year career. All of the retired DEA agents I have known all admit the war on drugs is a joke. Decriminalize drugs and the cartels disapear over night ie Al Capone and the liquor cartel.
Do they sell Jack Daniels on the street in your neighborhood and kill others that attempt to sell it?
Case closed.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Mr Clean said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> The second half of my career, I decided to become a Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor (DAPA).  This required that I go to school, and learn about alcohol, cannabis, and all the other drugs.  We were educated on the effects, how to spot people using, as well as other things.
> 
> Now, during that time, after all the research that I'd done, I decided that when I was completely out of the military, I would consider trying cannabis, because based on all the information that I had read in the military, I figured that it had no damaging effects on the body or mind.
> 
> 6 months or so, after I'd done a great deal more research from places like Harvard Medical and British Medical society, as well as other references (many came from NORML), and I decided to give it a try.  Based on my own experimentation as well as just about everything else I could get from LEGITIMATE (i.e. real doctors and scientists who worked for a reputable organization), there is nothing wrong with cannabis.
> 
> Incidentally, in Israel back in biblical times, cannabis was an ingredient in the Holy Annointing Oil of the Kings of Israel.  Archaeological evidence has also been unearthed dating back to those times showing there was both medical and recreational use that those people did.
> 
> And, considering the whole reason it was made illegal in the first place (racism.....Anslinger wanted a way to lock up the brown and black people, and because they were the primary users of cannabis, he was FBI and made it illegal), I'd be willing to say that it was made illegal for the wrong reasons and should be legalized now.
> 
> Interestingly enough, Nixon wanted a report done on the dangers of pot, so he commissioned a study called "The Laguardia Report".  Upon finding that it was favorable towards cannabis, he threw the whole thing into the trash.
> 
> *If you'd like to get a true history of marijuana in this country, go to the video store sometime and rent a movie called "Grass" which is narrated by Woody Harrelson.*
> 
> Trust me.......it's an eye opening documentary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No thanks, I learned everything I needed to know about the evils of the "Demon Weed" from watching Reefer Madness.
Click to expand...


You know.....I've known people who think that fucked up piece of shit is an actual documentary.

Research a bit about the movie.........it was amazing how much Anslinger got HollyWeird to play along, as well as all the obvious things that they stated cannabis did.

You know.......they could have named that movie "Meth Madness" and it would have been closer to the truth, because meth and heroin causes behavior like what was in the movie.

Total fabricated bullshit, and I've told some of my friends that if they believe that movie, they're dumber than plant life.


----------



## Harry Dresden

ConHog said:


> Except for the assholes who lace their pot with LSD or something similar. Or do you not consider them to be pot users anymore?



NEVER encountered anything like that in all the years i smoked....most people i knew and bought from would not sell shit like that....if you go and buy from the lowlife on the corner you get what you get,including the shit that goes with it.....i knew who i was buying from,and i knew they knew their supplier.....your talking about the moron pot smokers Con....know your guys....there is the legit and the shady.....know who each are and you will have no problems....


----------



## Charles_Main

Harry Dresden said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the assholes who lace their pot with LSD or something similar. Or do you not consider them to be pot users anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEVER encountered anything like that in all the years i smoked....most people i knew and bought from would not sell shit like that....if you go and buy from the lowlife on the corner you get what you get,including the shit that goes with it.....i knew who i was buying from,and i knew they knew their supplier.....your talking about the moron pot smokers Con....know your guys....there is the legit and the shady.....know who each are and you will have no problems....
Click to expand...


The whole the lace it with worse stuff argument is a joke. 

First off Most people do not get their weed from some dark scary Drug dealer. The distribution system is very grass roots. Most people get their stuff from a friend. who got it from a friend, and so on. 

Second, Most Drug dealing people would never lace pot with a much more expensive drug, and not tell the people they sell it to, so they can CHARGE MORE FOR IT.

Maybe in some inner city where some scum bag guy that tries to get little kids hooked might do that, but not the vast majority of people that sell weed. 

Just another of the many scare tactics the government has used to demonize pot for decades.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Harry Dresden said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the assholes who lace their pot with LSD or something similar. Or do you not consider them to be pot users anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEVER encountered anything like that in all the years i smoked....most people i knew and bought from would not sell shit like that....if you go and buy from the lowlife on the corner you get what you get,including the shit that goes with it.....i knew who i was buying from,and i knew they knew their supplier.....your talking about the moron pot smokers Con....know your guys....there is the legit and the shady.....know who each are and you will have no problems....
Click to expand...


Most of the really good "suppliers" that I've met have pretty much dabbled in only 1 thing......

Plants and fungi.  Most of them don't want the added hassle of having a hard drug charge on them.  Pot is a misdemeanor, meth/coke/heroin are all felonies.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Charles_Main said:


> Spoken like somebody who has never bought or sold, or smoked Pot.
> 
> That is a BS line the government uses to scare people about Pot. There are no dealers who lace their shit with expensive crap Like PCP and do not tell you about it when you but it. So they can charge more.
> 
> And LCD? if you knew anything at all you would know you don't lace weed with LCD. As you do not get the effects from it when you Burn it up.
> 
> The idea that dealers lace their pot with expensive harder drugs and then do not tell people it is in there. Is laughable. exposes your intense ignorance about the subject.



this is true.....thats why i said i never encountered shit like this....we had a guy one time try and sell us pot that smelled like it was soaked in Ammonia or something....we told him...thanks but no thanks....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Nate said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well if I'm not mistaken, those caught with or smoking it will face some type of retribution from the judicial system...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Varies State to State. Here in Ok;
> 
> 
> 
> Code Section Tit. 63 §2-101, et seq.
> Possession Misdemeanor with penalty of up to 1 yr. or fined $10,000; Subsequent offense: felony, 2-10 yrs. Fine not to exceed $25,000; Within 1000 feet of school or in presence of child under 12: up to double penalties; subsequent offense: up to triple penalties
> Sale Felony, 2-10 yrs. and/or up to $5000; Subsequent offense: double penalties
> Trafficking Between 25-1000 lbs.: $25,000 to $100,000; Over 1000 lbs.: $100,000 to $500,000
> 
> Oklahoma Marijuana Laws - OK Marijuana Laws - FindLaw for the Public
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

so your saying if your caught with a joint you may get up to a year or fined big bucks?.....thats crazy talk......


----------



## johnrocks

War on Drugs has been a dismal failure.


----------



## Harry Dresden

topspin said:


> In Louisiana we had a teacher of the year jailed for selling a couple ounces. She and her husband had 5 or six plants and were caught in a bar trying to sell to an under cover cop. Sad but true



well who was being stupid there?....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Lonestar_logic said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome to check it for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
Click to expand...


yea.....i mentioned NORMAL....they will contradict every one of those with studies done by "reputable" places.....so who you going to believe?.....


----------



## ABikerSailor

Hey Harry, don't forget Harvard Medical here in the US and the Royal British Medical Society.

They've done much research into cannabis, and it's pretty interesting.

Incidentally, according to Harvard Medical light use of marijuana is considered to be 15 or less joints/day.

Moderate use is 15 - 50 joints/day, and heavy use is Snoop Dog standards, 50 or more/day.

Based on those standards, I'd barely qualify as a user!


----------



## Harry Dresden

Gadawg73 said:


> Tobacco is the biggest killer and the worst drug out there.



and maybe the hardest to kick....


----------



## Harry Dresden

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey Harry, don't forget Harvard Medical here in the US and the Royal British Medical Society.
> 
> They've done much research into cannabis, and it's pretty interesting.
> 
> Incidentally, according to Harvard Medical light use of marijuana is considered to be 15 or less joints/day.
> 
> Moderate use is 15 - 50 joints/day, and heavy use is Snoop Dog standards, 50 or more/day.
> 
> Based on those standards, I'd barely qualify as a user!



yea i dont know if i have ever smoked by myself more than 2-3 in a day....and that was in my peak years........most of the time your with anywhere from 1 to however many people so your only getting a couple of hits per joint smoked....i was usually getting high with someone listening to some good sounds or watching TV.....the good old days.....


----------



## Bullfighter

Charles_Main said:


> [
> The whole the lace it with worse stuff argument is a joke.
> 
> First off Most people do not get their weed from some dark scary Drug dealer. The distribution system is very grass roots. Most people get their stuff from a friend. who got it from a friend, and so on.
> 
> Second, Most Drug dealing people would never lace pot with a much more expensive drug, and not tell the people they sell it to, so they can CHARGE MORE FOR IT.
> 
> Maybe in some inner city where some scum bag guy that tries to get little kids hooked might do that, but not the vast majority of people that sell weed.
> 
> Just another of the many scare tactics the government has used to demonize pot for decades.



"I buy my ILLEGAL DRUGS from people I can trust"
How the weather in your fantasy land?​


----------



## jillian

Harry Dresden said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yea.....i mentioned NORMAL....they will contradict every one of those with studies done by "reputable" places.....so who you going to believe?.....
Click to expand...


well... depends on who's paying the so-called reputable places, no?

I think I'd go with NORML. They have an agenda, but if they lie, then they end up hurting themselves. That isn't the case for the 'reefer madness' types. Also, I think it's pretty clear that if someone is younger than a certain age, it's pretty likely that they got high at one time or another.... to no ill-effects. There are probably more health issues from high fructose corn syrup... in fact, there definitely are.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tobacco is the biggest killer and the worst drug out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and maybe the hardest to kick....
Click to expand...


After 35 years of smoking 2-3 packs a day, I quit 5 years ago. It is not that hard. But I started smoking when I was 14. Why? Probably because everybody smoked. Then, years later, it became fashionable to quit.

But I do know someone who has to smoke pot everyday. She told that those who say it's not addictive are lying. She said she hasn't gone a day in the last 10 years without smoking weed.

Try smoking pot just walking around in public if you think it's harmless. You can't do it in public buildings because smoking anything there is illegal.

Why do people need to smoke it at all? How does it improve their lives?


----------



## jillian

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tobacco is the biggest killer and the worst drug out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and maybe the hardest to kick....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> After 35 years of smoking 2-3 packs a day, I quit 5 years ago. It is not that hard. But I started smoking when I was 14. Why? Probably because everybody smoked. Then, years later, it became fashionable to quit.
> 
> Try smoking pot just walking around in public if you think it's harmless. You can't do it in public buildings because smoking anything is illegal.
> 
> Why do people need to smoke it at all? How does it improve their lives?
Click to expand...


do you ever have a beer? same answer.

ultimately, it's no one's business what anyone else does for recreation if it doesn't hurt anyone else.


----------



## Article 15

ABikerSailor said:


> Incidentally, according to Harvard Medical light use of marijuana is considered to be 15 or less joints/day.
> 
> Moderate use is 15 - 50 joints/day, and heavy use is Snoop Dog standards, 50 or more/day.



I'm calling shenanigans, ABS.  

15 joints a day is nowhere in the neighborhood of "light use."

It's barely realistic for anybody period. 

Let's see a link.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Gadawg73 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DEA is a government bureaucracy. They want to continue having jobs and funding.
> I have worked many a drug case in my 30 year career. All of the retired DEA agents I have known all admit the war on drugs is a joke. Decriminalize drugs and the cartels disapear over night ie Al Capone and the liquor cartel.
> Do they sell Jack Daniels on the street in your neighborhood and kill others that attempt to sell it?
> Case closed.
Click to expand...


Just like ending prohibition stopped the moonshine business. 

You really need to get out more.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Harry Dresden said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yea.....i mentioned NORMAL....they will contradict every one of those with studies done by "reputable" places.....so who you going to believe?.....
Click to expand...


I believe the sources listed on the site I cited.


----------



## Middleman

Marijuana would probably be less likely to be an 'entry drug' if it were legal. You wouldn't need a 'connection' in order to obtain it, therefore you wouldn't need to associate with black market dealers of illicit substances.


----------



## Article 15

Lonestar_logic said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DEA is a government bureaucracy. They want to continue having jobs and funding.
> I have worked many a drug case in my 30 year career. All of the retired DEA agents I have known all admit the war on drugs is a joke. Decriminalize drugs and the cartels disapear over night ie Al Capone and the liquor cartel.
> Do they sell Jack Daniels on the street in your neighborhood and kill others that attempt to sell it?
> Case closed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just like ending prohibition stopped the moonshine business.
> 
> You really need to get out more.
Click to expand...


In terms of a percentage, would you care to take a guess at how much of the alcohol market share illegal moonshine sales have?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Article 15 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DEA is a government bureaucracy. They want to continue having jobs and funding.
> I have worked many a drug case in my 30 year career. All of the retired DEA agents I have known all admit the war on drugs is a joke. Decriminalize drugs and the cartels disapear over night ie Al Capone and the liquor cartel.
> Do they sell Jack Daniels on the street in your neighborhood and kill others that attempt to sell it?
> Case closed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like ending prohibition stopped the moonshine business.
> 
> You really need to get out more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In terms of a percentage, would you care to take a guess at how much of the alcohol market share illegal moonshine sales have?
Click to expand...


What difference does that make? 

There is no evidence that suggest that by legalizing pot the cartels would disappear. That's just plain fucking stupid and only a fool would buy into that argument.


----------



## Nate

Harry Dresden said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Varies State to State. Here in Ok;
> 
> 
> 
> Code Section Tit. 63 §2-101, et seq.
> Possession Misdemeanor with penalty of up to 1 yr. or fined $10,000; Subsequent offense: felony, 2-10 yrs. Fine not to exceed $25,000; Within 1000 feet of school or in presence of child under 12: up to double penalties; subsequent offense: up to triple penalties
> Sale Felony, 2-10 yrs. and/or up to $5000; Subsequent offense: double penalties
> Trafficking Between 25-1000 lbs.: $25,000 to $100,000; Over 1000 lbs.: $100,000 to $500,000
> 
> Oklahoma Marijuana Laws - OK Marijuana Laws - FindLaw for the Public
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so your saying if your caught with a joint you may get up to a year or fined big bucks?.....thats crazy talk......
Click to expand...


Welcome to the great State of Oklahoma... Hell tattos have only been legal in this State for 5 or so years. Have had a friend or two get a ride to the jailhouse just for roaches in the ashtray(Don't get caught in Bethany Ok. Their cells are PINK! After 4 hours in there one's liable to go crazy)


----------



## Article 15

Lonestar_logic said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just like ending prohibition stopped the moonshine business.
> 
> You really need to get out more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of a percentage, would you care to take a guess at how much of the alcohol market share illegal moonshine sales have?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What difference does that make?
> 
> There is no evidence that suggest that by legalizing pot the cartels would disappear. That's just plain fucking stupid and only a fool would buy into that argument.
Click to expand...


I'm curious because I think that legalizing it would dry up most of the black market for weed like it did alcohol.  I agree that it wouldn't "make the cartels disappear" but it sure as hell would kill the revenue they receive from marijuana.

So do you have an answer?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Article 15 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of a percentage, would you care to take a guess at how much of the alcohol market share illegal moonshine sales have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What difference does that make?
> 
> There is no evidence that suggest that by legalizing pot the cartels would disappear. That's just plain fucking stupid and only a fool would buy into that argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm curious because I think that legalizing it would dry up most of the black market for weed like it did alcohol.  I agree that it wouldn't "make the cartels disappear" but it sure as hell would kill the revenue they receive from marijuana.
> 
> So do you have an answer?
Click to expand...


I'm against legalizing pot, period. If you want to hurt the cartels, then sealing the borders would be the best way to do that.


----------



## Article 15

Lonestar_logic said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> What difference does that make?
> 
> There is no evidence that suggest that by legalizing pot the cartels would disappear. That's just plain fucking stupid and only a fool would buy into that argument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious because I think that legalizing it would dry up most of the black market for weed like it did alcohol.  I agree that it wouldn't "make the cartels disappear" but it sure as hell would kill the revenue they receive from marijuana.
> 
> So do you have an answer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm against legalizing pot, period. If you want to hurt the cartels, then sealing the borders would be the best way to do that.
Click to expand...


I'm not asking you whether you are for or against pot or how you would hurt the cartels.  I am asking you a simple question regarding the black market for alcohol in the United States.  How big is the black market for alcohol here in relation to the legit market?


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> After 35 years of smoking 2-3 packs a day, I quit 5 years ago. It is not that hard. But I started smoking when I was 14. Why? Probably because everybody smoked. Then, years later, it became fashionable to quit.
> 
> But I do know someone who has to smoke pot everyday. She told that those who say it's not addictive are lying. She said she hasn't gone a day in the last 10 years without smoking weed.
> 
> Try smoking pot just walking around in public if you think it's harmless. You can't do it in public buildings because smoking anything there is illegal.
> 
> Why do people need to smoke it at all? How does it improve their lives?



Bullfighter....there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive....Cigs ARE very physically addictive....and believe me dude....I HAVE walked around in public high before....and gee....no harm came to me or anyone else.....do some research before you open your yap....


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Article 15 said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious because I think that legalizing it would dry up most of the black market for weed like it did alcohol.  I agree that it wouldn't "make the cartels disappear" but it sure as hell would kill the revenue they receive from marijuana.
> 
> So do you have an answer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against legalizing pot, period. If you want to hurt the cartels, then sealing the borders would be the best way to do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not asking you whether you are for or against pot or how you would hurt the cartels.  I am asking you a simple question regarding the black market for alcohol in the United States.  How big is the black market for alcohol here in relation to the legit market?
Click to expand...


It doesn't matter how big or small the black market is in relation to alcohol. This discussion is about marijuana, or haven't you noticed?


----------



## Bullfighter

> Harry Dresden;2743441
> Bullfighter....there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive....Cigs ARE very physically addictive....and believe me dude....I HAVE walked around in public high before....and gee....no harm came to me or anyone else.....do some research before you open your yap....


Are you smoking now? Just one long sentence. See how it effects your typing!



> there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,



So are you saying they should take up smoking pot to put another monkey on their backs?
What good does smoking pot do?



> and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive



It is MENTALLY addictive only to those who SELL POT AND MAKE A PROFIT or those who smoke it and need an excuse to keep smoking it. She was giving me living testamony that see can't stop smoking it because she is addicted to it, PERIOD. Mentally or Physically addictive. Drug dealers get rich and pot smokers have there excuse to keep smoking. It doesn't take a genius or "60 Minutes" to figure that one out.


----------



## Gadawg73

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden;2743441
> Bullfighter....there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive....Cigs ARE very physically addictive....and believe me dude....I HAVE walked around in public high before....and gee....no harm came to me or anyone else.....do some research before you open your yap....
> 
> 
> 
> Are you smoking now? Just one long sentence. See how it effects your typing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are you saying they should take up smoking pot to put another monkey on their backs?
> What good does smoking pot do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is MENTALLY addictive only to those who SELL POT AND MAKE A PROFIT or those who smoke it and need an excuse to keep smoking it. She was giving me living testamony that see can't stop smoking it because she is addicted to it, PERIOD. Mentally or Physically addictive. Drug dealers get rich and pot smokers have there excuse to keep smoking. It doesn't take a genius or "60 Minutes" to figure that one out.
Click to expand...


Legalize it and no one gets rich.
People are addicted to coffee, ice tea, sugar, porn, sex, football, cigs, fishing, hunting, etc. Do we make it all illegal?
The Founders were smugglers of drugs. Our government still sanctions drug smuggling to other countries.
Wake up my man. The real world awaits you.


----------



## Bullfighter

Gadawg73 said:


> [Legalize it and no one gets rich.
> People are addicted to coffee, ice tea, sugar, porn, sex, football, cigs, fishing, hunting, etc. Do we make it all illegal?
> The Founders were smugglers of drugs. Our government still sanctions drug smuggling to other countries.
> Wake up my man. The real world awaits you.



Yeah. Dopers are really going to pay the price of a nickel bag PLUS all those taxes when the Mexican in the alley is selling his at "Pre Legalization" prices. How many people fall for that crap.


----------



## Charles_Main

Bullfighter said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> The whole the lace it with worse stuff argument is a joke.
> 
> First off Most people do not get their weed from some dark scary Drug dealer. The distribution system is very grass roots. Most people get their stuff from a friend. who got it from a friend, and so on.
> 
> Second, Most Drug dealing people would never lace pot with a much more expensive drug, and not tell the people they sell it to, so they can CHARGE MORE FOR IT.
> 
> Maybe in some inner city where some scum bag guy that tries to get little kids hooked might do that, but not the vast majority of people that sell weed.
> 
> Just another of the many scare tactics the government has used to demonize pot for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I buy my ILLEGAL DRUGS from people I can trust"
> How the weather in your fantasy land?​
Click to expand...


I never bought pot from someone who had not been my friend for years. Hows the whether in arrogant land?


----------



## Charles_Main

Bullfighter said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Legalize it and no one gets rich.
> People are addicted to coffee, ice tea, sugar, porn, sex, football, cigs, fishing, hunting, etc. Do we make it all illegal?
> The Founders were smugglers of drugs. Our government still sanctions drug smuggling to other countries.
> Wake up my man. The real world awaits you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Dopers are really going to pay the price of a nickel bag PLUS all those taxes when the Mexican in the alley is selling his at "Pre Legalization" prices. How many people fall for that crap.
Click to expand...


You are a jack ass. Pre legalization prices? The price of Pot is 4 times as HIGH as it would be if legal. 

When the congress made Booze illegal the price sky rocketed by 400% over night. The same is true of any banned substance. The prospect of Jail time for selling it. Increases it's price DRAMATICALLY.

If legalized and taxed. It would still be much cheaper than it is today.

People pay up to 400 Dollars an Ounce and more for it today. For a plant anyone can grow. In comparison Tobacco is about 4 Dollars an ounce.

Clearly you have no concept of supply and demand and the effects of being illegal on the market.


----------



## hjmick

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by the time you tax the hell out of it like cigarettes, it will cost more to light up than shoot heroin. Then, drug cartels will increase the prices of their supply because the US just increased the value of the product.
> 
> Boy, that was real smart!
Click to expand...


Is that how it worked when Prohibition was repealed?


----------



## Charles_Main

hjmick said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by the time you tax the hell out of it like cigarettes, it will cost more to light up than shoot heroin. Then, drug cartels will increase the prices of their supply because the US just increased the value of the product.
> 
> Boy, that was real smart!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that how it worked when Prohibition was repealed?
Click to expand...


He is a fool, Making it legal Decreases the value significantly, and no that is not how it worked with Prohibition. With that it went up 400% over night when made illegal, and dropped about 300% when made legal again.

The idea that if pot was legal we would still get it from Drug Cartels is a joke. It would be grown right here in America. Like a big chunk of it already is. Make it legal to posses and grow, and the Cartels are shit out of luck.


----------



## Bullfighter

Charles_Main said:


> [
> I never bought pot from someone who had not been my friend for years. Hows the whether in arrogant land?



 Say, what is the stuff that Mexican kids smoke that smells like cherries. The gangs around here are always smoking it. Another reason to keep that crap illegal.


----------



## Charles_Main

Bullfighter said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> I never bought pot from someone who had not been my friend for years. Hows the whether in arrogant land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say, what is the stuff that Mexican kids smoke that smells like cherries. The gangs around here are always smoking it. Another reason to keep that crap illegal.
Click to expand...


Smells like cherries? lol no idea.


----------



## hjmick

Charles_Main said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> And by the time you tax the hell out of it like cigarettes, it will cost more to light up than shoot heroin. Then, drug cartels will increase the prices of their supply because the US just increased the value of the product.
> 
> Boy, that was real smart!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that how it worked when Prohibition was repealed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is a fool, Making it legal Decreases the value significantly, and no that is not how it worked with Prohibition. With that it went up 400% over night when made illegal, and dropped about 300% when made legal again.
> 
> The idea that if pot was legal we would still get it from Drug Cartels is a joke. It would be grown right here in America. Like a big chunk of it already is. Make it legal to posses and grow, and the Cartels are shit out of luck.
Click to expand...


Think of the boon for American farmers...


----------



## Bullfighter

Charles_Main said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Legalize it and no one gets rich.
> People are addicted to coffee, ice tea, sugar, porn, sex, football, cigs, fishing, hunting, etc. Do we make it all illegal?
> The Founders were smugglers of drugs. Our government still sanctions drug smuggling to other countries.
> Wake up my man. The real world awaits you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. Dopers are really going to pay the price of a nickel bag PLUS all those taxes when the Mexican in the alley is selling his at "Pre Legalization" prices. How many people fall for that crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are a jack ass. Pre legalization prices? The price of Pot is 4 times as HIGH as it would be if legal.
> 
> When the congress made Booze illegal the price sky rocketed by 400% over night. The same is true of any banned substance. The prospect of Jail time for selling it. Increases it's price DRAMATICALLY.
> 
> If legalized and taxed. It would still be much cheaper than it is today.
> 
> People pay up to 400 Dollars an Ounce and more for it today. For a plant anyone can grow. In comparison Tobacco is about 4 Dollars an ounce.
> 
> Clearly you have no concept of supply and demand and the effects of being illegal on the market.
Click to expand...


When I started smoking around 40 years ago, I could buy a pack of cigarettes for 35 cents. Today I think a pack of cigarettes is around $7.00. How much of that is tax?

There are countries in Europe where the thing to smuggle is cigarettes. They don't bother trying to smuggle drugs.


----------



## Charles_Main

hjmick said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that how it worked when Prohibition was repealed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is a fool, Making it legal Decreases the value significantly, and no that is not how it worked with Prohibition. With that it went up 400% over night when made illegal, and dropped about 300% when made legal again.
> 
> The idea that if pot was legal we would still get it from Drug Cartels is a joke. It would be grown right here in America. Like a big chunk of it already is. Make it legal to posses and grow, and the Cartels are shit out of luck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think of the boon for American farmers...
Click to expand...


heck yeah. These guys who think the price would go up simply do not understand how expensive it is right now.

You can Make 10's of thousands of Dollars with a grow space no bigger than a closet. 

So if you made it legal you could cut the price SIGNIFICANTLY, tax it, and it would still be the most profitable crop a US farmer could grow.


----------



## johnrocks

Bullfighter said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> I never bought pot from someone who had not been my friend for years. Hows the whether in arrogant land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say, what is the stuff that Mexican kids smoke that smells like cherries. The gangs around here are always smoking it. Another reason to keep that crap illegal.
Click to expand...


So they are already smoking shit that smells bad to you and that's a reason to keep it ILLEGAL?


----------



## Bullfighter

Charles_Main said:


> [
> heck yeah. These guys who think the price would go up simply do not understand how expensive it is right now.
> 
> You can Make 10's of thousands of Dollars with a grow space no bigger than a closet.
> 
> So if you made it legal you could cut the price SIGNIFICANTLY, tax it, and it would still be the most profitable crop a US farmer could grow.



BUT!.......The untaxed product would be significantly cheaper because it is UNTAXED. Take a look at a pack of cigarettes to see all the tax stamps on it. State, County, City, and others. The government really bleeds people who smoke.


----------



## Charles_Main

Bullfighter said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> heck yeah. These guys who think the price would go up simply do not understand how expensive it is right now.
> 
> You can Make 10's of thousands of Dollars with a grow space no bigger than a closet.
> 
> So if you made it legal you could cut the price SIGNIFICANTLY, tax it, and it would still be the most profitable crop a US farmer could grow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT!.......The untaxed product would be significantly cheaper because it is UNTAXED. Take a look at a pack of cigarettes to see all the tax stamps on it. State, County, City, and others. The government really bleeds people who smoke.
Click to expand...


You do understand that pot comes from a plant that is easier to grow than Tobacco right?

Tobacco is taxed and is still only 4 Dollars an once. Pot is illegal, not taxed and costs 400 dollars an ounce.

Get it?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Charles_Main said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> And by the time you tax the hell out of it like cigarettes, it will cost more to light up than shoot heroin. Then, drug cartels will increase the prices of their supply because the US just increased the value of the product.
> 
> Boy, that was real smart!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that how it worked when Prohibition was repealed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is a fool, Making it legal Decreases the value significantly, and no that is not how it worked with Prohibition. With that it went up 400% over night when made illegal, and dropped about 300% when made legal again.
> 
> The idea that if pot was legal we would still get it from Drug Cartels is a joke. It would be grown right here in America. Like a big chunk of it already is. Make it legal to posses and grow, and the Cartels are shit out of luck.
Click to expand...


You're assuming that pot is the only product the cartels deal in.


----------



## Bullfighter

johnrocks said:


> [
> So they are already smoking shit that smells bad to you and that's a reason to keep it ILLEGAL?



BUT they have a hard time buying booze and cigarettes because stores refuse to sell them to minors. Do you really believe that kids that are already hooked on pot are going to let a little store owner stop them from getting high?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Charles_Main said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> heck yeah. These guys who think the price would go up simply do not understand how expensive it is right now.
> 
> You can Make 10's of thousands of Dollars with a grow space no bigger than a closet.
> 
> So if you made it legal you could cut the price SIGNIFICANTLY, tax it, and it would still be the most profitable crop a US farmer could grow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT!.......The untaxed product would be significantly cheaper because it is UNTAXED. Take a look at a pack of cigarettes to see all the tax stamps on it. State, County, City, and others. The government really bleeds people who smoke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do understand that pot comes from a plant that is easier to grow than Tobacco right?
> 
> Tobacco is taxed and is still only 4 Dollars an once. Pot is illegal, not taxed and costs 400 dollars an ounce.
> 
> Get it?
Click to expand...


$400 an ounce? Damn you guys are getting ripped off.


----------



## Bullfighter

Lonestar_logic said:


> [
> 
> You're assuming that pot is the only product the cartels deal in.



Chicago street gangs were even involved in buying homes and ripping off mortgage companies. The penalties for getting caught doing it were far less than dealing in drugs.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Harry Dresden said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> After 35 years of smoking 2-3 packs a day, I quit 5 years ago. It is not that hard. But I started smoking when I was 14. Why? Probably because everybody smoked. Then, years later, it became fashionable to quit.
> 
> But I do know someone who has to smoke pot everyday. She told that those who say it's not addictive are lying. She said she hasn't gone a day in the last 10 years without smoking weed.
> 
> Try smoking pot just walking around in public if you think it's harmless. You can't do it in public buildings because smoking anything there is illegal.
> 
> Why do people need to smoke it at all? How does it improve their lives?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter....there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive....Cigs ARE very physically addictive....and believe me dude....I HAVE walked around in public high before....and gee....no harm came to me or anyone else.....do some research before you open your yap....
Click to expand...


Well, to be honest, there was this time back in college, at the rec center, where I was stoned on my ass.  Some Asian lady came up to me, in front of the soda machine, and asked, "dat ory sodie or ory juice."  I couldn't stop laughing my ass off, and I'm sure I offended this poor gal.  I still regret that uncontrollable laughter.


----------



## johnrocks

Bullfighter said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> So they are already smoking shit that smells bad to you and that's a reason to keep it ILLEGAL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT they have a hard time buying booze and cigarettes because stores refuse to sell them to minors. Do you really believe that kids that are already hooked on pot are going to let a little store owner stop them from getting high?
Click to expand...


I think that it would be like the alcohol and the cigarettes, legalizing would make it harder for kids to get it, sure, there would be a big brother or someone who buys it for their 15 year old kid sister or whatever from time to time just like with beer and cigarettes but legalization would put a huge dent in kids having access.


When I was 15, it was easy as hell to get pot, not so much with beer and that was 34 years ago.


----------



## k2skier

Nosmo King said:


> Why is marijuana illegal now?  What's the history of marijuana laws?  And why must the government intrude into the personal life of its citizens?





Why is Marijuana Illegal? Because of 2 men; William Randolf Hearst and Harry J. Anslinger

Why is Marijuana Illegal? - Drug WarRant


*Greed*
Marijuana's potential for producing inexpensive paper made the timber industry nervous, and budding technologies--which put hemp into the competition for synthetic fibers, cellophane, methanol, super-strength plastics, paint, medicines, textiles, ship sails and foods--prompted tycoons who faced billions of dollars in subsequent losses to initiate fear campaigns (spreading claims of insanity and murder) and to lobby for the plant's prohibition.

*Racism*
In the 1920s and 1930s, marijuana was attacked by spreading fears of falling of collapsing barriers between blacks and whites. The federal narcotics division leader, Harry Anslinger, initiated a campaign to put marijuana at the center of interracial dating and dancing, citing marijuana's popularity in racially mixed jazz clubs. 

Prejudice against Mexicans was also exploited by connecting Mexican immigrants--representing cheap labor during the Depression--to the marijuana scene and by renaming hemp as marijuana.

*Ignorance*
Many Americans believed that marijuana was a violent narcotic in the company of opiates, and people feared that it fomented criminal acts and psychosis. Harry Anslinger was pivotal in proliferating stories of brutal crimes and sexual predation resulting from marijuana use.

*Renewed Legalization of Alcohol*
Many careers existed to maintain Prohibition, and banning marijuana provided the hope of continuing employment when it was repealed. The Federal Bureau of Narcotics, established in 1930, represented this job security, particularly if widely-used marijuana was added to the list of illegal substances

Why Was Marijuana Made Illegal in the USA? | Trails.com


----------



## Lonestar_logic

johnrocks said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> So they are already smoking shit that smells bad to you and that's a reason to keep it ILLEGAL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT they have a hard time buying booze and cigarettes because stores refuse to sell them to minors. Do you really believe that kids that are already hooked on pot are going to let a little store owner stop them from getting high?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think that it would be like the alcohol and the cigarettes, legalizing would make it harder for kids to get it, sure, there would be a big brother or someone who buys it for their 15 year old kid sister or whatever from time to time just like with beer and cigarettes but *legalization would put a huge dent in kids having access.*
> 
> 
> When I was 15, it was easy as hell to get pot, not so much with beer and that was 34 years ago.
Click to expand...


Bullshit!

If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.


----------



## Paulie

Dick Tuck said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> After 35 years of smoking 2-3 packs a day, I quit 5 years ago. It is not that hard. But I started smoking when I was 14. Why? Probably because everybody smoked. Then, years later, it became fashionable to quit.
> 
> But I do know someone who has to smoke pot everyday. She told that those who say it's not addictive are lying. She said she hasn't gone a day in the last 10 years without smoking weed.
> 
> Try smoking pot just walking around in public if you think it's harmless. You can't do it in public buildings because smoking anything there is illegal.
> 
> Why do people need to smoke it at all? How does it improve their lives?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter....there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive....Cigs ARE very physically addictive....and believe me dude....I HAVE walked around in public high before....and gee....no harm came to me or anyone else.....do some research before you open your yap....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, to be honest, there was this time back in college, at the rec center, where I was stoned on my ass.  Some Asian lady came up to me, in front of the soda machine, and asked, "dat ory sodie or ory juice."  I couldn't stop laughing my ass off, and I'm sure I offended this poor gal.  I still regret that uncontrollable laughter.
Click to expand...


That's funny.  One of the first things I remember when I started smoking weed was going to the Chinese buffet and laughing hysterically at the wait staff


----------



## Charles_Main

Lonestar_logic said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that how it worked when Prohibition was repealed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is a fool, Making it legal Decreases the value significantly, and no that is not how it worked with Prohibition. With that it went up 400% over night when made illegal, and dropped about 300% when made legal again.
> 
> The idea that if pot was legal we would still get it from Drug Cartels is a joke. It would be grown right here in America. Like a big chunk of it already is. Make it legal to posses and grow, and the Cartels are shit out of luck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're assuming that pot is the only product the cartels deal in.
Click to expand...


No, I am saying they would be shit out of luck when it comes to making money off of pot.


----------



## k2skier

$320 per OZ, and yes, from personal experience, it's 6-8 times stronger than the Mexican brown shit back in the 70's.


----------



## johnrocks

Lonestar_logic said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUT they have a hard time buying booze and cigarettes because stores refuse to sell them to minors. Do you really believe that kids that are already hooked on pot are going to let a little store owner stop them from getting high?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that it would be like the alcohol and the cigarettes, legalizing would make it harder for kids to get it, sure, there would be a big brother or someone who buys it for their 15 year old kid sister or whatever from time to time just like with beer and cigarettes but *legalization would put a huge dent in kids having access.*
> 
> 
> When I was 15, it was easy as hell to get pot, not so much with beer and that was 34 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.
Click to expand...


That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?

You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)


----------



## Modbert

I feel sorry for people who still think Reefer Madness is a documentary in this day and age.


----------



## Big Black Dog

johnrocks said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that it would be like the alcohol and the cigarettes, legalizing would make it harder for kids to get it, sure, there would be a big brother or someone who buys it for their 15 year old kid sister or whatever from time to time just like with beer and cigarettes but *legalization would put a huge dent in kids having access.*
> 
> 
> When I was 15, it was easy as hell to get pot, not so much with beer and that was 34 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
Click to expand...


We grow our own tomatoes.  Nothing as good as a home grown tomato.


----------



## johnrocks

Big Black Dog said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We grow our own tomatoes.  Nothing as good as a home grown tomato.
Click to expand...


I have grown them too but millions don't and that is why they are found in the produce market and Farmer's markets all over the country, same with any other plant that is legal and can be grown and eaten.  Most don't want to wait a year to raise their own pot when they can get it quickly somewhere else.


----------



## Luissa

I watched a documentary where they talked about how pot is not a gateway drug, but the fact the government and everyone also has lied about it's affects. In the documentary the blamed the fact kids realize they were lied to about pot, so they think maybe they were lied to about other drugs.


----------



## Charles_Main

johnrocks said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We grow our own tomatoes.  Nothing as good as a home grown tomato.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have grown them too but millions don't and that is why they are found in the produce market and Farmer's markets all over the country, same with any other plant that is legal and can be grown and eaten.  Most don't want to wait a year to raise their own pot when they can get it quickly somewhere else.
Click to expand...


Only takes about 4 months but your point is valid.


----------



## johnrocks

Charles_Main said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> We grow our own tomatoes.  Nothing as good as a home grown tomato.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have grown them too but millions don't and that is why they are found in the produce market and Farmer's markets all over the country, same with any other plant that is legal and can be grown and eaten.  Most don't want to wait a year to raise their own pot when they can get it quickly somewhere else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only takes about 4 months but your point is valid.
Click to expand...


I don't smoke it(did at one time) and never grew it so I was guessing, I just think that people should have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit unless it harms others, treat it like beer/DWI laws  and be done with it.


----------



## k2skier

Jack Fate said:


> I think we should round up all the muslim terrorists and lock them in a room with marijuana, Beatles records, and tons of chips.
> 
> I predict world peace.



Or...

I think we should round up all the Republican congressmen and lock them in a room with marijuana, Beatles records, and tons of chips, I too predict world peace.

Why do MegacorpConglomerates and Republicans like war so much?


----------



## MikeK

Ravi said:


> *Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government  Report Says*
> 
> So it says, but what is this based on? As far as I can tell it is based on the imagination of those writing the report.


It does derive from their imaginations but it is motivated by the will of the corporations which stand to lose billions in profits if marijuana is legalized, along with police and prison guard unions and the prison construction and management industry which is the only remaining growth industry in America.


----------



## Modbert

I assume those who are afraid that legalizing Marijuana will lead to the deaths of people and the rampant drug use of children will be soon sprouting arguments against the legality of alcohol, prescription drugs, and cigarettes. After all, if we are going to ban one addictive substance because it might harm someone, why not ban them all? I mean people don't want to be hypocrites, right?

Oh hey, we do have a large number of obese people in this country. Perhaps the government should be telling us how much we should be eating next or what we should or should not eat.


----------



## rikules

jillian said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yea.....i mentioned NORMAL....they will contradict every one of those with studies done by "reputable" places.....so who you going to believe?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> well... depends on who's paying the so-called reputable places, no?
> 
> I think I'd go with NORML. They have an agenda, but if they lie, then they end up hurting themselves. That isn't the case for the 'reefer madness' types. Also, I think it's pretty clear that if someone is younger than a certain age, it's pretty likely that they got high at one time or another.... to no ill-effects. There are probably more health issues from high fructose corn syrup... in fact, there definitely are.
Click to expand...


 " There are probably more health issues from high fructose corn syrup... in fact, there definitely are. "


every year people die (or suffer serious injuries) from;

playing football
playing hockey
downhill skiing
snowmobiling
racing cars
drinking alcohol
smoking tobacco
unhealthy diets
failure to exercise
mountain climbing
having the wrong opinions and accidently running into a political or religious zealot


many years ago the anti-marijuana crowd ran a commercial on tv;

it showed a kid getting hit in the head in a boxing match

their message was;  smoking pot is as bad for your brain as being punched in the head!

the problem:  at that time (and no doubt still) police depts all over the country were trying to get kids interested in BOXING as a way to keep them off drugs because drugs are as bad as boxing!

the ad only ran a short while and was pulled....never to be shown again....


----------



## Charles_Main

Luissa said:


> I watched a documentary where they talked about how pot is not a gateway drug, but the fact the government and everyone also has lied about it's affects. In the documentary the blamed the fact kids realize they were lied to about pot, so they think maybe they were lied to about other drugs.



Bingo. The war on drugs has used scare tactics and out right lies about the drug for ever. Claiming it will make you crazy, and violent. So when kids try it and find out nothing could be further from the truth. They assume the Government is lying about all the drugs.


----------



## MikeK

topspin said:


> Obama is f**ng hypocrite when it comes to pot. He jokingly mocked Clinton about not inhailing yet he shudders out of fear of republican reprisal should he do the right thing.


That is the sad truth.

President Obama's position on marijuana compared with Candidate Obama's position on marijuana, which is as different as is night from day, is clear evidence that Obama is subordinate to the will of the right-wing shadow government, which is the corporatocracy.

I fully expect Obama to come out against legalization in the very near future.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

johnrocks said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that it would be like the alcohol and the cigarettes, legalizing would make it harder for kids to get it, sure, there would be a big brother or someone who buys it for their 15 year old kid sister or whatever from time to time just like with beer and cigarettes but *legalization would put a huge dent in kids having access.*
> 
> 
> When I was 15, it was easy as hell to get pot, not so much with beer and that was 34 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
Click to expand...


Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject. 

I'm opposed to legalizing pot.


----------



## Luissa

Charles_Main said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched a documentary where they talked about how pot is not a gateway drug, but the fact the government and everyone also has lied about it's affects. In the documentary the blamed the fact kids realize they were lied to about pot, so they think maybe they were lied to about other drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo. The war on drugs has used scare tactics and out right lies about the drug for ever. Claiming it will make you crazy, and violent. So when kids try it and find out nothing could be further from the truth. They assume the Government is lying about all the drugs.
Click to expand...

When I was in high school and started smoking pot, the only thing I got violent on, was DQ Blizzards and ranch dressing. 

I also tried cocaine when I got older. My gateway drug to that, was alcohol, not pot. 
In my opinion, alcohol is the number one gateway drug, but you will never see a report supporting that. And I wonder why? 
I, for one starting drinking before I ever tried pot.


----------



## Modbert

Lonestar_logic said:


> Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject.
> 
> I'm opposed to legalizing pot.



Replace the word pot with alcohol. Of course, we all know how prohibition worked so well the last time we enacted it before the War on Drugs.


----------



## MikeK

fyrenza said:


> If pot is legalized?  Everyone will just grow their own (read that, NO taxes)


Some will but the vast majority will not, for the same reason most beer and booze users don't brew their own.


----------



## johnrocks

Lonestar_logic said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject.
> 
> I'm opposed to legalizing pot.
Click to expand...


Tomatoes are easy to grow too yet people go to the produce dept. or farmer's markets daily to get them, pot is grown right now legally, Kentucky is the 2nd biggest producer behind California, pot is grown right there in the Daniel Boone National Wilderness.


I support it because I support individual rights, not the nanny state.


----------



## Luissa

Lonestar_logic said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject.
> 
> I'm opposed to legalizing pot.
Click to expand...


You obviously have never grown pot. If you don't live in the right climate, you have to grow inside. Which takes a lot of research, money, and time. 
Your argument that every one and their dog will be doing it, doesn't really work either. Many people already do it, the ones who have the time and money. They will never stop all of them, so why not legalize it, and make it harder for minors to get?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

johnrocks said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We grow our own tomatoes.  Nothing as good as a home grown tomato.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have grown them too but millions don't and that is why they are found in the produce market and Farmer's markets all over the country, same with any other plant that is legal and can be grown and eaten.  Most don't want to wait a year to raise their own pot when they can get it quickly somewhere else.
Click to expand...


A year to grow pot? Well we can tell you're not a farmer.  I can grow one in about 3 to 4 months.


----------



## Luissa

johnrocks said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would be true in some cases but marijuana is harder to grow than a tomato plant and how many grow their own tomatoes?
> 
> You oppose State Rights and individual rights and responsibilities?(just asking, not aware of your political views)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject.
> 
> I'm opposed to legalizing pot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tomatoes are easy to grow too yet people go to the produce dept. or farmer's markets daily to get them, pot is grown right now legally, Kentucky is the 2nd biggest producer behind California, pot is grown right there in the Daniel Boone National Wilderness.
> 
> 
> I support it because I support individual rights, not the nanny state.
Click to expand...


I thought Washington State was the second largest producer?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

Modbert said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject.
> 
> I'm opposed to legalizing pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the word pot with alcohol. Of course, we all know how prohibition worked so well the last time we enacted it before the War on Drugs.
Click to expand...


When you grow alcohol let me know.


----------



## johnrocks

If people grew their own, there would still be taxes from the sale of plants,seed,fertilizer,etc. just like any other plant that is now legally grown.


----------



## johnrocks

Lonestar_logic said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> We grow our own tomatoes.  Nothing as good as a home grown tomato.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have grown them too but millions don't and that is why they are found in the produce market and Farmer's markets all over the country, same with any other plant that is legal and can be grown and eaten.  Most don't want to wait a year to raise their own pot when they can get it quickly somewhere else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A year to grow pot? Well we can tell you're not a farmer.  I can grow one in about 3 to 4 months.
Click to expand...


I was born and raised on a farm, we just never grew pot.


----------



## johnrocks

Lonestar_logic said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject.
> 
> I'm opposed to legalizing pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the word pot with alcohol. Of course, we all know how prohibition worked so well the last time we enacted it before the War on Drugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you grow alcohol let me know.
Click to expand...


There are people who brew their own beer yet most go to the store and buy it.


----------



## Dreamwalker

About 20 years ago on one of the first web sites "prodigy" which I'm sure many of you remember, and many more don't. I started the C.C.L.M, the California Committee for the Legalization of Marijuana. I honestly believe I was one of the first, if not the first legalization sites on the web period. I don't smoke anymore but I'm still a die hard believer in legalization. It looks like 20 years later, California may in-fact do it this November. I could still write to this day a hundred page article on why it should be legalized, but I don't want to do that this time. I want to hear your honest opinions as to why or why not this is a good idea. Though I will throw out a few facts in the end , as to why this is in-fact a conspiracy. I will stick around and throw out facts and figures, but I honestly want each and every one of your ideas behind this. This quite frankly is the subject that started me on the road to being a conspiracy theorist. If you want to know why, ask me. This is one of the very few areas other than water purification, that I consider myself a "proffessional". So members, what are your thoughts? What are the negatives? What are the positives? I promise to reply to every single one of you.

Like I stated before, this could easily take 100 pages. Don't worry I won't do that here. I will simply state the most important bullet points, which are all very easily researchable, and proven true. I will try to keep this as short as possible, for the fact that I still want your opinions, and I don't want to skew the mix too much.

Ok, the simple fact is that marijuana prohibition was never about marijuana or its use, it was about hemp. (the same plant). It started in the 1930's when William Hearst of the Hearst newspaper group, the Hearst magazine group, and yes Hearst castle, saw an opportunity to shut down production of a major opposing industry "hemp".

Hearst began to run articles in his newspaper in the thirty's about African Americans that were getting high on marijuana and then raping white women. These articles started a national outrage which then began the prohibition of marijuana. Hence the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937.

You may ask, if it wasn't true, why would he publish it? The simple fact is Hearst had very powerful friends in many other industries that worked together as a group, and are still to this day the most powerful industries in the United States. The cotton industry, paper industry, and oil industry. Later on Big pharmecutical and even the soy industry got involved. This was a collective power grab, by several of the countries largest industries, to destroy an already profitable industry that they were aware could eventually replace each and every one of them.

Just a few facts:

You can get as much paper, or fiberboard, from one acre of hemp, as you can get from 30 acres of forestland.

You can get as much high quality fiber for clothing, rope, fabrics in general, from one acre of hemp, as you can get from 16 acres of cotton, and it is far easier to harvest.

Hemp oil is so easy to produce, it could easily replace every other form of oil in the world.

Hemp seed has been proven to be more beneficial to health than soy beans, and far easier to produce in virtually every climate in America.

We will now jump forward to "The Narcotic control act of 1956", This made marijuana a class 1 narcotic, right along side heroin. Why was this done?
In the early 1950's there were many studies done around the world that not only proved that certain canibinoids could deter or kill specific cancer cells. There were studies left and right on cannibinoids that proved many were more efficient than their current pharmecudical counterparts at treating specific diseases. Lots, and lots of them. This topic itself could take up 50 plus pages on it's own. I highly suggest you research this for yourself, it is fascinating. Though back to the subject. What was the purpose of this classification? No class 1 narcotic can be tested for medical applications. I know crazy right? It only gets worse. During the war on drugs in the early eighties, the United States made it virtually impossible for any country on the planet to have legalized marijuana, because they would then be cut off from trade with the U.S. As a drug sponsering country. The research from the countries that continued to do medical testing on marijuana have come up with thousands, yes thousands of medical benefits to marijuana. While we in the U.S. and the U.K. were watching infomercials that told us that "1 joint is as harmful as 20 ciggarettes". (which was later proven to be vise versa) other countries were testing marijuana to be used on cancer patients. Not only as an appetite increaser for those going through chemotherapy, but doing testing on the cannibinoids effect on the cancer cells themselves.

If I keep going I will be on the start to truly write the 100 pages so I will finish now with a few more facts.

Marijuana is one of the oldest plants on Earth, and fossilized remains have been found inside the dissolved digestive tracts of dinosaurs from atleat 65,000,000 years ago.

The declaration of independence is written on Hemp Paper.

The first American flag was made from hemp.

Most Bible's pre 1900 were written on hemp paper.

George Washington grew marijuana.

In a few American wars it was actually a law that American families had to by law grow hemp, to help out the military.

There is no known overdose limit on THC, the active ingredient in Marijuana.

Marijuana officially does not kill brain cells, review all the latest research.


So if you have any specific questions ask me. Though I hope you can now see how this one issue could have sent me down the road to being a conspiricy theorist.

-Dreamwalker

P.S. I know my spelling and grammar can be horrendous, just read it REAL FAST and you won't even notice.


----------



## Dick Tuck

johnrocks said:


> If people grew their own, there would still be taxes from the sale of plants,seed,fertilizer,etc. just like any other plant that is now legally grown.



More likely, Monsanto would lace your weed with some kind of asshole gene, and claim that your stash belonged to them.


----------



## MikeK

ConHog said:


> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.


This time you're right on both points -- but conditionally.

Marijuana can be a _gateway_ but only to those with addictive personality syndrome.  Such individuals are inclined to develop addictions to such things as cola drinks (I knew one), so if it wasn't marijuana that got them started it would be something else.  

And incidents in which someone who is stoned on pot attacks the narcs who are about to arrest him certainly is not typical but is behaving defensively.  The reality is marijuana is by far the most effective tranquilizer known, so stoners are never aggressively violent -- as any of your real cop friends (not narcs) will attest.


----------



## MikeK

topspin said:


> Obama is a Democan't on this issue, which makes him worse than republicans. He smoked often (his own words) so he know's how harmless it is but he's to big a pussy to do anything other than say "States I'll let you work it out".


That's true.  He did say that.  But I expect he will reverse himself on that, too, when the pressure from his corporate sponsors is brought to bear.  



> As usual, California will lead the culture out of the dark ages. Arnold a republican who smoked often won't stop it.


I hope you're right.  But the drug warriors have just started their campaign and they haven't rolled out the big guns yet.  Expect that in October.


----------



## rikules

Lonestar_logic said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, pot isn't hard to grow and there are literally hundreds of books on the subject.
> 
> I'm opposed to legalizing pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the word pot with alcohol. Of course, we all know how prohibition worked so well the last time we enacted it before the War on Drugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you grow alcohol let me know.
Click to expand...


People brew their own beer and make their own wine

I know lots of people who do one or the other.


----------



## Luissa

ConHog said:


> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.



Pot is not addicting, it is habit forming. For one you do not have the withdrawals like you do with drugs like nicotine, alcohol, and even caffeine. It does not trigger anything in your brain, to make it addictive.


----------



## Charles_Main

johnrocks said:


> If people grew their own, there would still be taxes from the sale of plants,seed,fertilizer,etc. just like any other plant that is now legally grown.



Not to mention the could make you buy a license for the government to grow it. Hell for that matter they could just start actually selling the stamps from the stamp act


----------



## MikeK

Wry Catcher said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many arrests have you made?  I can personally attest by experience those on weed rarely resist, those on alcohol, and expecially those on alcohol and speed or downers (reds) are especially dangerous.  If someone is 'stoned' on weed and acts agressively I'd be surprised if there were not other drugs or alcohol (AOD) involved, or a psychiatric condition was in play.
> 
> As for a gateway drug, there is an element of truth to this argument.  However one must not necessarily lead to the other.  Consider, by only a few degrees of seperation a  person who chooses to buy MJ must come in contact with a professional criminal, and professionally criminals make their money by selling drugs other than MJ.
> Cutting the weed with other drugs is one way to introduce a user of MJ with stronger and more profitable substances, and of course while marketing a small amount of MJ a dealer might toss in a freebee, a little taste of speed or crack as a friendly gesture.
> 
> Kids use MJ.  "Just say No" was a joke.  We need to educate kids on the harm of drug use, and MJ is harmful to the physical development of the brain, expecially the linkage between the left and right hemispheres.  Any association with criminals is not what we want in terms of child development either, for some kids have already decided to sell drugs and caviet emptor is the operating ethos of that element.
> 
> Removing MJ from schedule I and allowing the States to ban or not makes sense.  The regulated sale of MJ will provide some quality control, likely reduce the amount of illegal MJ on the streets and schoolyards and provide revenue for treatement and education.
> 
> Or, we can continue to do what we've done for the past 30 years and "Just say know".
Click to expand...

Thank you for the substantively intelligent commentary!  It is much appreciated.  I have the impression that you are one of the "good guys."


----------



## johnrocks

Luissa said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is not addicting, it is habit forming. For one you do not have the withdrawals like you do with drugs like nicotine, alcohol, and even caffeine. It does not trigger anything in your brain, to make it addictive.
Click to expand...


Yep, when I decided, I just walked away from pot, quitting cigarettes was a 20 year struggle before finally kicking it for good a few years ago. I know I'm speaking from just personal experience there but I have an addictive personality, if anyone could get addicted, it should be someone like me.


----------



## Charles_Main

Luissa said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is not addicting, it is habit forming. For one you do not have the withdrawals like you do with drugs like nicotine, alcohol, and even caffeine. It does not trigger anything in your brain, to make it addictive.
Click to expand...


Pot is mentally addicting but not Physically addicting. Physically addicting drugs like Nicotine, Heroin, and Booze are harder to kick because the body goes through physical Withdraw and pain when you quit. Pot is much easier to kick because it is all mental. You do not feel physical pain and have withdraw when you stop.

I know I have stopped and started many times in the past. I currently have not smoked in about a year because of the costs, and when I stopped the last time. The worst of it was me being a tad annoying for awhile.


----------



## Luissa

Charles_Main said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is not addicting, it is habit forming. For one you do not have the withdrawals like you do with drugs like nicotine, alcohol, and even caffeine. It does not trigger anything in your brain, to make it addictive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pot is mentally addicting but not Physically addicting. Physically addicting drugs like Nicotine, Heroin, and Booze are harder to kick because the body goes through physical Withdraw and pain when you quit. Pot is much easier to kick because it is all mental. You do not feel physical pain and have withdraw when you stop.
> 
> I know I have stopped and started many times in the past. I currently have not smoked in about a year because of the costs, and when I stopped the last time. The worst of it was me being a tad annoying for awhile.
Click to expand...

When I used to smoke pot on a daily basis, and smoked cigarettes I could very much tell the difference. If I didn't have cigarettes I was evil, and could have killed someone. 
If I didn't have pot, I was annoyed, but I didn't have that feeling like I absolutely needed it.
I smoke pot now, but not all the time, and it easy for me to do this even though I spent many years smoking it daily. 
Another way to tell it isn't physically addicting is the fact you don't really build up a tolerance like you do on other drugs. You may be able to handle the high better, but you don't really build up a tolerance. I have smoked for weeks, then got a new kind, and it was like the first time I smoked. 

Now, I just smoke it when I need to relax and de stress myself.  I would rather smoke a bowl than drink.


----------



## Bullfighter

Luissa said:


> [
> When I used to smoke pot on a daily basis, and smoked cigarettes I could very much tell the difference. If I didn't have cigarettes I was evil, and could have killed someone.
> If I didn't have pot, I was annoyed, but I didn't have that feeling like I absolutely needed it.
> I smoke pot now, but not all the time, and it easy for me to do this even though I spent many years smoking it daily.
> Another way to tell it isn't physically addicting is the fact you don't really build up a tolerance like you do on other drugs. You may be able to handle the high better, but you don't really build up a tolerance. I have smoked for weeks, then got a new kind, and it was like the first time I smoked.
> 
> Now, I just smoke it when I need to relax and de stress myself.  I would rather smoke a bowl than drink.



Sounds like you're really stressed out. Light up and live. Would it bother you if everyone in the world right now were high? Like the doctors performing surgery, the pilots flying airplanes, the guys that push the buttons to fire the nukes?


----------



## Luissa

Bullfighter said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> When I used to smoke pot on a daily basis, and smoked cigarettes I could very much tell the difference. If I didn't have cigarettes I was evil, and could have killed someone.
> If I didn't have pot, I was annoyed, but I didn't have that feeling like I absolutely needed it.
> I smoke pot now, but not all the time, and it easy for me to do this even though I spent many years smoking it daily.
> Another way to tell it isn't physically addicting is the fact you don't really build up a tolerance like you do on other drugs. You may be able to handle the high better, but you don't really build up a tolerance. I have smoked for weeks, then got a new kind, and it was like the first time I smoked.
> 
> Now, I just smoke it when I need to relax and de stress myself.  I would rather smoke a bowl than drink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're really stressed out. Light up and live. Would it bother you if everyone in the world right now were high? Like the doctors performing surgery, the pilots flying airplanes, the guys that push the buttons to fire the nukes?
Click to expand...

I don't get high before or while I am working, I would expect them to do the same, just like I would expect them not to drink while on the job. 
You think if it was made legal, everyone would be stoned all the time?


----------



## johnrocks

Bullfighter said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> When I used to smoke pot on a daily basis, and smoked cigarettes I could very much tell the difference. If I didn't have cigarettes I was evil, and could have killed someone.
> If I didn't have pot, I was annoyed, but I didn't have that feeling like I absolutely needed it.
> I smoke pot now, but not all the time, and it easy for me to do this even though I spent many years smoking it daily.
> Another way to tell it isn't physically addicting is the fact you don't really build up a tolerance like you do on other drugs. You may be able to handle the high better, but you don't really build up a tolerance. I have smoked for weeks, then got a new kind, and it was like the first time I smoked.
> 
> Now, I just smoke it when I need to relax and de stress myself.  I would rather smoke a bowl than drink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're really stressed out. Light up and live. Would it bother you if everyone in the world right now were high? Like the doctors performing surgery, the pilots flying airplanes, the guys that push the buttons to fire the nukes?
Click to expand...


Why can't those things be addressed like with alcohol, I no more want my Pilot drunk
Pilot charged with being drunk before flight - Travel - News - msnbc.com  than high, why not allow businesses the freedom to test for drugs and decide these issues, why must we have "Uncle Sammy" making these decisions?


----------



## johnrocks

This happened just this week
Drunk Delta Pilot Arrested in Cockpit: Airline Captain Was Planning to Fly from Amsterdam to New York - ABC News

A Delta pilot has been arrested and fined for allegedly being drunk as he was preparing to fly from Amsterdam to Newark Liberty International Airport, outside New York City. 


Do we need to outlaw alcohol now?


----------



## Bullfighter

Modbert said:


> I assume those who are afraid that legalizing Marijuana will lead to the deaths of people and the rampant drug use of children will be soon sprouting arguments against the legality of alcohol, prescription drugs, and cigarettes. After all, if we are going to ban one addictive substance because it might harm someone, why not ban them all? I mean people don't want to be hypocrites, right?
> 
> Oh hey, we do have a large number of obese people in this country. Perhaps the government should be telling us how much we should be eating next or what we should or should not eat.



But those items have other legitamate uses. Alcohol in different forms is a beverage and an antiseptic. Prescription drugs have medical uses. Nicotine can be used as a insect repellant.

Speaking of addictions. McDonalds can kill if taken in large doses. See the movie "Supersize Me" if you think I'm kidding. He found the food just as addictive as heroin.


----------



## Bullfighter

Luissa said:


> [I don't get high before or while I am working, I would expect them to do the same, just like I would expect them not to drink while on the job.
> You think if it was made legal, everyone would be stoned all the time?



The Mexican kids in my neighborhood sell and smoke pot but I never see them smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol. Why is that?


----------



## Luissa

Bullfighter said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I don't get high before or while I am working, I would expect them to do the same, just like I would expect them not to drink while on the job.
> You think if it was made legal, everyone would be stoned all the time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Mexican kids in my neighborhood sell and smoke pot but I never see them smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol. Why is that?
Click to expand...


I don't know, ask them.

You really don't know what you are talking about, and you are pretty much all over the place with your argument. You should read a little on the subject, and get back to us.


----------



## Article 15

Lonestar_logic said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm against legalizing pot, period. If you want to hurt the cartels, then sealing the borders would be the best way to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not asking you whether you are for or against pot or how you would hurt the cartels.  I am asking you a simple question regarding the black market for alcohol in the United States.  How big is the black market for alcohol here in relation to the legit market?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter how big or small the black market is in relation to alcohol. This discussion is about marijuana, or haven't you noticed?
Click to expand...


You are the one that brought up the illegal moonshine market, not me.  It's okay, I didn't think you would answer it anyway because I suspect that you know a truthful answer on your part only helps to prove my point and we can't have that now can we?


----------



## Modbert

Bullfighter said:


> But those items have other legitamate uses. Alcohol in different forms is a beverage and an antiseptic. Prescription drugs have medical uses. Nicotine can be used as a insect repellant.
> 
> Speaking of addictions. McDonalds can kill if taken in large doses. See the movie "Supersize Me" if you think I'm kidding. He found the food just as addictive as heroin.



And pot is used by people suffering from cancer and other diseases which cause a lot of pain as a way to not be suffering. So using your logic, time to legalize Marijuana.

And also using your logic, we should ban McDonalds then.


----------



## Luissa

Modbert said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> But those items have other legitamate uses. Alcohol in different forms is a beverage and an antiseptic. Prescription drugs have medical uses. Nicotine can be used as a insect repellant.
> 
> Speaking of addictions. McDonalds can kill if taken in large doses. See the movie "Supersize Me" if you think I'm kidding. He found the food just as addictive as heroin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And pot is used by people suffering from cancer and other diseases which cause a lot of pain as a way to not be suffering. So using your logic, time to legalize Marijuana.
> 
> And also using your logic, we should ban McDonalds then.
Click to expand...


You also cannot die from smoking too much pot.


----------



## Bullfighter

Luissa said:


> [You also cannot die from smoking too much pot.



Did you ever try taking the pot away from a Mexican?


----------



## Luissa

Bullfighter said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> [You also cannot die from smoking too much pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever try taking the pot away from a Mexican?
Click to expand...


----------



## Bullfighter

Have you ever considered just getting drunk like most normal people?


----------



## johnrocks

Bullfighter said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> [You also cannot die from smoking too much pot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you ever try taking the pot away from a Mexican?
Click to expand...


You ever try taking a beer away from a Redneck?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Luissa said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is not addicting, it is habit forming. For one you do not have the withdrawals like you do with drugs like nicotine, alcohol, and even caffeine. It does not trigger anything in your brain, to make it addictive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pot is mentally addicting but not Physically addicting. Physically addicting drugs like Nicotine, Heroin, and Booze are harder to kick because the body goes through physical Withdraw and pain when you quit. Pot is much easier to kick because it is all mental. You do not feel physical pain and have withdraw when you stop.
> 
> I know I have stopped and started many times in the past. I currently have not smoked in about a year because of the costs, and when I stopped the last time. The worst of it was me being a tad annoying for awhile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I used to smoke pot on a daily basis, and smoked cigarettes I could very much tell the difference. If I didn't have cigarettes I was evil, and could have killed someone.
> If I didn't have pot, I was annoyed, but I didn't have that feeling like I absolutely needed it.
> I smoke pot now, but not all the time, and it easy for me to do this even though I spent many years smoking it daily.
> Another way to tell it isn't physically addicting is the fact you don't really build up a tolerance like you do on other drugs. You may be able to handle the high better, but you don't really build up a tolerance. I have smoked for weeks, then got a new kind, and it was like the first time I smoked.
> 
> Now, I just smoke it when I need to relax and de stress myself.  I would rather smoke a bowl than drink.
Click to expand...


Luissa's right.........smoke quite a bit for a couple of weeks (months if you're so inclined), stop for a week or two, and the first hit after being without for a bit, is just like the first time you smoked.

Addictive drugs don't do that.

Additionally, I never smoked while I was in the Navy (I liked my career too much), but I did know a couple who did (I enlisted in '82, right around the time of the zero tolerance policy).

They rarely went out drinking, but they did get high.  When we started work in the morning Larry and Steve were ready and raring to go, but the rest of us who'd gotten drunk the night before were pretty useless until around 11 or noon.

Personally?  I'd rather start the workday alongside someone who'd gotten high the night before than someone who went and got sauced.


----------



## johnrocks

Groups the War on Drugs helps

Drug lords....they are making boatloads of tax free money
Street gangs....They too make boat loads of tax free money while making our cities more dangerous.
Bureaucrats/politicians.....Those that derive their power,influence,income and benefits from "fighting" the "War on Drugs"
Terrorists....who get financed with this money

Did I leave anyone out like Narcs,prison guards,people who build the prisons, etc?  If so...my apologies.


----------



## Bullfighter

johnrocks said:


> Groups the War on Drugs helps
> 
> Drug lords....they are making boatloads of tax free money
> Street gangs....They too make boat loads of tax free money while making our cities more dangerous.
> Bureaucrats/politicians.....Those that derive their power,influence,income and benefits from "fighting" the "War on Drugs"
> Terrorists....who get financed with this money
> 
> Did I leave anyone out like Narcs,prison guards,people who build the prisons, etc?  If so...my apologies.




Lawyers who defends scumbag drug dealers, 
Doctors who patch up people who get shot by drug dealers,
Real Estate Agents who make a fortune selling the homes of people who escape neighborhoods made scummy by drug dealers....


----------



## MikeK

Lonestar_logic said:


> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> Not surprising.


And we know government never lies to us.

Right?


----------



## Charles_Main

MikeK said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> And we know government never lies to us.
> 
> Right?
Click to expand...


Not when the Liberals are in charge!!  lol


----------



## MikeK

Lonestar_logic said:


> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that were this a government report telling us something you didn't agree with you would be explaining how it can't be trusted.
> 
> pot is no  more dangerous than alcohol
> in a free country pot shoud be legal
> 
> in a country in which the people believe the government should stay out of our private lives pot would be legal
> 
> people who oppse a nanny state shoud support legalization of pot
> 
> people who don't want OTHER people telling THEM how to live should support the legalization of pot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.
> 
> Why not make all drugs legal.
Click to expand...

For your information, because you obviously don't know, some drugs are very harmful.  I vigorously advocate for legalizing mariunana because I personally used it on a regular basis throughout the 1960s and 70s (when it was decriminalized in New York City) and it did neither me nor my late wife nor any of my friends any harm.  I stopped using it when Ronald Reagan and his dimwit wife made it a serious crime in 1982.  If it were legal (or decriminalized) I would use it again, because there is no good reason not to.  

Briefly stated, everything government says about marijuana is a lie.  Now you can either believe that or you can keep whistling in the dark because your political orientation requires you to.


----------



## johnrocks

Lonestar_logic said:


> rikules said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that were this a government report telling us something you didn't agree with you would be explaining how it can't be trusted.
> 
> pot is no  more dangerous than alcohol
> in a free country pot shoud be legal
> 
> in a country in which the people believe the government should stay out of our private lives pot would be legal
> 
> people who oppse a nanny state shoud support legalization of pot
> 
> people who don't want OTHER people telling THEM how to live should support the legalization of pot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's your opinion.
> 
> Why not make all drugs legal.
Click to expand...


Like Walter Williams, Reagan's former Sec. of State George Schultz and the late,great Milton Friedman supports or supported in Friedman's case,lol.


----------



## MikeK

ConHog said:


> Oh for sure lots of things are addictive, but addiction alone isn't reason enough to outlaw something, only if it has other dangerous properties should that be considered. I am merely stating that those who say that pot absolutely isn't addictive are lying.


There is much confusion surrounding the word, _addiction._  In the academically correct sense addiction means one's use of a given substance has produced a mutation in brain chemistry resulting in neurological dependence on regular input of that substance.  Diacetyl morphine (heroin) is most commonly known to produce this effect.  There are no biologically addictive properties in cannabis sativa (marijuana).  

However, _some_ individuals are psychologically predisposed to what is best described as pseudo-addiction in that they develop a purely psychological dependency on something (including a lover).  Such individuals are classified within the behavioral profession as having _addictive personalities_ and are capable of manifesting "addiction" on such things as Pepsi Cola.  (I know one such person!)  

Bottom line: Some who use marijuana will develop a psychological dependency on it, which in no way compares to the debilitating effects of a biological (real) addiction.


----------



## MikeK

Nate said:


> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
> (Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans.
> 
> The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will say that I find these numbers interesting since just the other day there was a thread on here stating that violent crime is at a 3 year low.... Hmmmm
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-crime-drops-for-the-third-straight-year.html
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmm, is right!   Thank you for recognizing that important statistical implication.  

Good job!


----------



## MikeK

Jack Fate said:


> I think we should round up all the muslim terrorists and lock them in a room with marijuana, Beatles records, and tons of chips.
> 
> I predict world peace.


Many a truth is said in jest.


----------



## MikeK

Lonestar_logic said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exposing the Myth of Smoked Medical Marijuana
> 
> 
> Marijuana is an addictive drug1 with significant health consequences to its users and others. Many harmful short-term and long-term problems have been documented with its use:
> 
> The short term effects of marijuana use include: memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problem solving, loss of motor skills, decrease in muscle strength, increased heart rate, and anxiety2.
> 
> In recent years there has been a dramatic increase in the number of emergency room mentions of marijuana use. From 1993-2000, the number of emergency room marijuana mentions more than tripled.
> 
> There are also many long-term health consequences of marijuana use. According to the National Institutes of Health, studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.
> 
> Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including most of the harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. Smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette.
> 
> Harvard University researchers report that the risk of a heart attack is five times higher than usual in the hour after smoking marijuana.3
> 
> Smoking marijuana also weakens the immune system4 and raises the risk of lung infections.5 A Columbia University study found that a control group smoking a single marijuana cigarette every other day for a year had a white-blood-cell count that was 39 percent lower than normal, thus damaging the immune system and making the user far more susceptible to infection and sickness.6
> 
> Users can become dependent on marijuana to the point they must seek treatment to stop abusing it. In 1999, more than 200,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana abuse and dependence.
> 
> More teens are in treatment for marijuana use than for any other drug or for alcohol. Adolescent admissions to substance abuse facilities for marijuana grew from 43 percent of all adolescent admissions in 1994 to 60 percent in 1999.
> 
> Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Christ Lonestar at least use a no-biased source.....the DEA?.....come on Dude....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They listed each source.
> 
> 1Herbert Kleber, Mitchell Rosenthal, "Drug Myths from Abroad: Leniency is Dangerous, not Compassionate" Foreign Affairs Magazine, September/October 1998. Drug Watch International "NIDA Director cites Studies that Marijuana is Addictive." "Research Finds Marijuana is Addictive," Washington Times, July 24, 1995.
> 2National Institue of Drug Abuse, Journal of the American Medical Association, Journal of Clinical Phamacology, International Journal of Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, Pharmacology Review.
> 3"Marijuana and Heart Attacks" Washington Post, March 3, 2000
> 4I. B. Adams and BR Martin, "Cannabis: Pharmacology and Toxicology in Animals and Humans" Addiction 91: 1585-1614. 1996.
> 5National Institute of Drug Abuse, "Smoking Any Substance Raises Risk of Lung Infections" NIDA Notes, Volume 12, Number 1, January/February 1997.
> 6Dr. James Dobson, "Marijuana Can Cause Great Harm" Washington Times, February 23, 1999.
> 72000 National Drug Control Strategy Annual Report, page 13.
> 8"Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," Institute of Medicine, 1999.
> 9See footnotes in response to question 4 regarding marijuana's short and long term health effects.
> 10"Marijuana Appetite Boost Lacking in Cancer Study" The New York Times, May 13, 2001.
> 11Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health.
> 12Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health.
> 
> You're welcome to check it for yourself.
Click to expand...

Are those your references?  Are you serious?  That is analogous to Charles Manson listing Jeffrey Dahmer as a character reference.


----------



## MikeK

Harry Dresden said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> why?.....whats going to happen?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well if I'm not mistaken, those caught with or smoking it will face some type of retribution from the judicial system...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what a ticket....if that?....in some cases as long as your not in a vehical and you have under an ounce the cops dont care.....and this i was told by Anaheim Cops at a Coffee shop before work...
Click to expand...

That's virtual decriminalization.  

Pot was decriminalized in New York City in the 1960s and 70s.  Possession of less than 55 grams (about two ounces) was a summons offense which called for a $25 fine.  As long as it didn't involve minors or public sale the cops were not concerned with marijuana.  There were head shops all over the place, people lit up in coffee shops in Greenwich Village, stoners smoked openly and played chess in Tompkins Square Park and there were no problems because of that relative freedom.  

Then came Ronald Reagan.


----------



## MikeK

Harry Dresden said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome to check it for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
Click to expand...

Harry,

While NORML is indeed biased please don't equate it with the DEA which is notorious for publishing duplicitous propaganda.  NORML relies for its very existence on presenting unimpeachable facts and reliable information.  NORML is the very antithesis of the DEA and the drug warrior cult.


----------



## MikeK

Lonestar_logic said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're welcome to check it for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry Lone.....i dont trust stats from any organization that is dead set against OR dead set for  what they are rallying about...who should you believe?.....the DEA?....NORMAL?....to biased Orgs....or an independent study?.....&#9824;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
Click to expand...

Go here:    Exposing Marijuana Myths - A Review of the Scientific Evidence


----------



## MikeK

Harry Dresden said:


> this is true.....thats why i said i never encountered shit like this....we had a guy one time try and sell us pot that smelled like it was soaked in Ammonia or something....we told him...thanks but no thanks....


That smell is mold.  It typically results from being baled over long periods of time, especially in the bilge of a boat.  

Smoking moldy weed can be damaging to the respiratory system -- which is another good reason for legalizing it.  Quite a bit of bootleg pot is analogous to the bootleg liquor sold during prohibition called, "bathtub gin," which very often contained deadly toxins such as anti-freeze and it killed a lot of people.


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> After 35 years of smoking 2-3 packs a day, I quit 5 years ago. It is not that hard. But I started smoking when I was 14. Why? Probably because everybody smoked. Then, years later, it became fashionable to quit.
> 
> 
> 
> My experience with cigarettes is similar.  I started at age fifteen, smoked for 35 years (two pack-a-day habit), quit in 1985 (with the aid of Nicorette gum).  Still have an occasional craving because, unlike marijuana, nicotine is biologically addictive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I do know someone who has to smoke pot everyday. She told that those who say it's not addictive are lying. She said she hasn't gone a day in the last 10 years without smoking weed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See my message on _psychological "addiction."_  Your friend has an addictive personality.  If she wasn't convinced that she's "addicted" to marijuana it would be something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try smoking pot just walking around in public if you think it's harmless. You can't do it in public buildings because smoking anything there is illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would anyone want to walk around smoking pot?  That's like walking around drinking wine.  The whole point of using cannabis is to relax.  It's a euphoric tranquilizer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people need to smoke it at all? How does it improve their lives?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know about improving one's life but it feels really nice.
Click to expand...


----------



## MikeK

Lonestar_logic said:


> Just like ending prohibition stopped the moonshine business.
> 
> You really need to get out more.


Are you saying _moonshine_ is still being made and sold?  

If so I'm not challenging the truth of it but it must be a regional thing.  Because I am seventy-four years old, I've lived in the NorthEast all of my life (except for a couple of years in North Carolina) and I have never heard of anyone selling, buying or drinking "moonshine."  

If it's true -- why?   Is it sold in liquor stores?  If not, why not?  If it's true it's something I am totally ignorant about.


----------



## MikeK

Lonestar_logic said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show a study that contradicts the ones the DEA's listed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yea.....i mentioned NORMAL....they will contradict every one of those with studies done by "reputable" places.....so who you going to believe?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I believe the sources listed on the site I cited.
Click to expand...

Because you _want_ to believe those sources.  Your mind is made up and you don't wish to be annoyed by any facts.


----------



## johnrocks

MikeK said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just like ending prohibition stopped the moonshine business.
> 
> You really need to get out more.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying _moonshine_ is still being made and sold?
> 
> If so I'm not challenging the truth of it but it must be a regional thing.  Because I am seventy-four years old, I've lived in the NorthEast all of my life (except for a couple of years in North Carolina) and I have never heard of anyone selling, buying or drinking "moonshine."
> 
> If it's true -- why?   Is it sold in liquor stores?  If not, why not?  If it's true it's something I am totally ignorant about.
Click to expand...


It's made but in such small amounts to render it not even worthy of discussion, I'm 49 and have seen it once.


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> When I started smoking around 40 years ago, I could buy a pack of cigarettes for 35 cents. Today I think a pack of cigarettes is around $7.00. How much of that is tax?
> 
> There are countries in Europe where the thing to smuggle is cigarettes. They don't bother trying to smuggle drugs.


The trick there is government can get away with such an enormous tax on cigarettes because the smokers have no choice.  Tobacco isn't easy to grow, cure and process, whereas marijuana is.  So if government assigned a prohibitive tax to legal pot it would be self-defeating because the illegal market would return and those who have a place to grow it would do so.  

So the price of legal marijuana would be held at a reasonable level by those marketing considerations.


----------



## MikeK

Lonestar_logic said:


> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.


If pot is legalized you may rest assured it will still be rigidly controlled and the controls will include a licensing requirement for growing it.  While you can buy it in a government licensed store, get caught growing your own and go to jail for tax evasion.  

While some will undoubtedly do it, the vast majority will not.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Are you smoking now? Just one long sentence. See how it effects your typing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there are a hell of a lot of people who cant quit smoking Cigs.....there are plenty of studies out there saying cigs are one of the hardest drugs to stop doing....for you to tell us because you were able to quit,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So are you saying they should take up smoking pot to put another monkey on their backs?
> What good does smoking pot do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you know a pot smoker...WHO DOES NOT WANNA QUIT....is pretty stupid,just to try and make a point....the girl you know can quit....but SHE DOES NOT WANT TO.....pot can be MENTALY addictive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is MENTALLY addictive only to those who SELL POT AND MAKE A PROFIT or those who smoke it and need an excuse to keep smoking it. She was giving me living testamony that see can't stop smoking it because she is addicted to it, PERIOD. Mentally or Physically addictive. Drug dealers get rich and pot smokers have there excuse to keep smoking. It doesn't take a genius or "60 Minutes" to figure that one out.
Click to expand...


your name sums you up dude....BULL....and your not to bright....and your a fool to believe this girl cant quit smoking Pot....in one part you say.."It is MENTALLY addictive only to those who  smoke it and need an excuse to keep smoking it"......like your friend....and then you say she gave you "living testamony" that she cant stop.....Because She Is Mentally Addicted And Does Not Want To Stop!....but she can if she wanted to.....maybe you had better stick to bashing Mexicans....there you just look like a racist.....here you look like an idiot....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Charles_Main said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> I never bought pot from someone who had not been my friend for years. Hows the whether in arrogant land?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say, what is the stuff that Mexican kids smoke that smells like cherries. The gangs around here are always smoking it. Another reason to keep that crap illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Smells like cherries? lol no idea.
Click to expand...


they cant afford Pot....so they smoke Cherries....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> BUT they have a hard time buying booze and cigarettes because stores refuse to sell them to minors. Do you really believe that kids that are already hooked on pot are going to let a little store owner stop them from getting high?



your getting fucking ridiculous now.....go find a thread about Mexicans...


----------



## eots

I like to grow my own its fun and you know its organic. I get a half pound of good bud from one good plant plus the hash and oil I can make from the leaf..I grow it all outdoors so it virtually cost nothing


----------



## Harry Dresden

Lonestar_logic said:


> $400 an ounce? Damn you guys are getting ripped off.



depends on the quality of what your buying.....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Dick Tuck said:


> Well, to be honest, there was this time back in college, at the rec center, where I was stoned on my ass.  Some Asian lady came up to me, in front of the soda machine, and asked, "dat ory sodie or ory juice."  I couldn't stop laughing my ass off, and I'm sure I offended this poor gal.  I still regret that uncontrollable laughter.



rookie......


----------



## Charles_Main

one bit of good news. The Obama Admin finally blames something on someone else other than Bush


----------



## Charles_Main

Harry Dresden said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> $400 an ounce? Damn you guys are getting ripped off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> depends on the quality of what your buying.....
Click to expand...


That was an attempt to average it. Around here it ranges from 200 to 600 a ounce actually depending on quality.

Still it does not change the fact that Pot is many many times more expensive than Tobacco, even thought it is easy to grow, and you do not have to add chemicals to it to make people smoke it, and it is Not taxed. 

Because it is illegal.


----------



## eots

Harry Dresden said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> $400 an ounce? Damn you guys are getting ripped off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> depends on the quality of what your buying.....
Click to expand...


400 a ounce !!...thats insane ..you put it in a 5 gal bucket of good soil, put in the sun and give it water...you can do it almost anywhere..and my dank is as good as it gets


----------



## Harry Dresden

MikeK said:


> While NORML is indeed biased please don't equate it with the DEA which is notorious for publishing duplicitous propaganda.  NORML relies for its very existence on presenting unimpeachable facts and reliable information.  NORML is the very antithesis of the DEA and the drug warrior cult.



look if i had to pick between the two i would go with NORML hands down.....but that is because i have smoked the stuff for a long time and i know most of the shit the Anti-Pot people spew is bullshit......But ....they are a tad biased....


----------



## Harry Dresden

eots said:


> I like to grow my own its fun and you know its organic. I get a half pound of good bud from one good plant plus the hash and oil I can make from the leaf..I grow it all outdoors so it virtually cost nothing



ill be over tonight.....Pizza sound good....


----------



## Bullfighter

> =MikeK;2745450I don't know about improving one's life but it feels really nice.



But look at how many lives it has destroyed just to feel high when you could have had a beer.


----------



## Bullfighter

MikeK said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is true.....thats why i said i never encountered shit like this....we had a guy one time try and sell us pot that smelled like it was soaked in Ammonia or something....we told him...thanks but no thanks....
> 
> 
> 
> That smell is mold.  It typically results from being baled over long periods of time, especially in the bilge of a boat.
> 
> Smoking moldy weed can be damaging to the respiratory system -- which is another good reason for legalizing it.  Quite a bit of bootleg pot is analogous to the bootleg liquor sold during prohibition called, "bathtub gin," which very often contained deadly toxins such as anti-freeze and it killed a lot of people.
Click to expand...


Now how many people did that guy kill with his pot?


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> =MikeK;2745450I don't know about improving one's life but it feels really nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But look at how many lives it has destroyed just to feel high when you could have had a beer.
Click to expand...


really?.....so show us a stat showing how Pot has destroyed more lives than alcohol.....i will give the rest of the year to find one......if you need next year.....go for it.....i got time....


----------



## Bullfighter

MikeK said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I started smoking around 40 years ago, I could buy a pack of cigarettes for 35 cents. Today I think a pack of cigarettes is around $7.00. How much of that is tax?
> 
> There are countries in Europe where the thing to smuggle is cigarettes. They don't bother trying to smuggle drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> The trick there is government can get away with such an enormous tax on cigarettes because the smokers have no choice.  Tobacco isn't easy to grow, cure and process, whereas marijuana is.  So if government assigned a prohibitive tax to legal pot it would be self-defeating because the illegal market would return and those who have a place to grow it would do so.
> 
> So the price of legal marijuana would be held at a reasonable level by those marketing considerations.
Click to expand...


That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I ever heard. Pot is not cheap even buying it through illegal means. Why are those who smoke it now not simply growing it at home? Everybody claims that it grows like weeds so it will grow anywhere. What do you say, Professor?


----------



## Bullfighter

MikeK said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit!
> 
> If it were legal every dopehead would be growing the shit in their front yards. Access would be pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> If pot is legalized you may rest assured it will still be rigidly controlled and the controls will include a licensing requirement for growing it.  While you can buy it in a government licensed store, get caught growing your own and go to jail for tax evasion.
> 
> While some will undoubtedly do it, the vast majority will not.
Click to expand...


HA! HA! HA! I'm rolling on the floor.

That is exactly what I have been saying. Legalizing pot makes it expensive with all those strict government controls and taxes. Plus minors won't be able to get their hands on your highly restricted dope. The drug cartels won't be effected at all. Will law enforcement attack cartels with tax evasion when they can't even tag them with murder?

Minors that will soon be joining the ranks of gangs smoke it all over my town while walking down the street and the police do NOTHING!
The might confiscate it when I call the police to get the 5 or 6 Mexicans off my porch, but they don't arrest them which in itself is a crime and makes the police look ridiculous.

There's your explanation of the drop in crime. Don't arrest unless a body is involved. I live in a 80% hispanic neighborhood. With the sanctuary city bullshit, these illegals get away with everything just short of murder and that will soon be changed when the Mexican flag flys over Washington.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> =MikeK;2745450I don't know about improving one's life but it feels really nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But look at how many lives it has destroyed just to feel high when you could have had a beer.
Click to expand...


Interestingly enough, people who only smoke cannabis and do no other drugs (yes, there are people like that) generally lead pretty productive lives. 

Matter of fact, I know a computer programmer who owns his own business and makes a pretty good living.

He doesn't drink, only smokes.  

Most of the violent crimes?  They involve something in ADDITION TO smoking pot.  Matter of fact, for a while, there was a biker bar here in Amarillo where you could go out on the back porch and smoke a joint.  I was a bartender there for 4 1/2 years, and every person who smoked was generally there having a good time.

The ones that drank only?  They'd get violent on occasion.  Those that did other things?  I'd kick them out of the bar, usually with the help of other patrons in the bar.

Nope.........sorry.........as someone who has tried it, as well as someone who has worked in a bar environment around people who smoked, marijuana isn't any worse than a beer, and probably better.

You can sober up from being high by eating sugary foods.  You can't do that with alcohol.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =MikeK;2745450I don't know about improving one's life but it feels really nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But look at how many lives it has destroyed just to feel high when you could have had a beer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, people who only smoke cannabis and do no other drugs (yes, there are people like that) generally lead pretty productive lives.
> 
> Matter of fact, I know a computer programmer who owns his own business and makes a pretty good living.
> 
> He doesn't drink, only smokes.
> 
> Most of the violent crimes?  They involve something in ADDITION TO smoking pot.  Matter of fact, for a while, there was a biker bar here in Amarillo where you could go out on the back porch and smoke a joint.  I was a bartender there for 4 1/2 years, and every person who smoked was generally there having a good time.
> 
> The ones that drank only?  They'd get violent on occasion.  Those that did other things?  I'd kick them out of the bar, usually with the help of other patrons in the bar.
> 
> Nope.........sorry.........as someone who has tried it, as well as someone who has worked in a bar environment around people who smoked, marijuana isn't any worse than a beer, and probably better.
> 
> You can sober up from being high by eating sugary foods.  You can't do that with alcohol.
Click to expand...


But why does one need to take it in the first place? Why not deal with life as it really is?


----------



## ABikerSailor

People have done it through the ages Bullfighter, get over it.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> People have done it through the ages Bullfighter, get over it.



And innocent people have paid the price.


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> =MikeK;2745450I don't know about improving one's life but it feels really nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But look at how many lives it has destroyed just to feel high when you could have had a beer.
Click to expand...


you shouldn't have rejected college, you learn and you make more money


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> But look at how many lives it has destroyed just to feel high when you could have had a beer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, people who only smoke cannabis and do no other drugs (yes, there are people like that) generally lead pretty productive lives.
> 
> Matter of fact, I know a computer programmer who owns his own business and makes a pretty good living.
> 
> He doesn't drink, only smokes.
> 
> Most of the violent crimes?  They involve something in ADDITION TO smoking pot.  Matter of fact, for a while, there was a biker bar here in Amarillo where you could go out on the back porch and smoke a joint.  I was a bartender there for 4 1/2 years, and every person who smoked was generally there having a good time.
> 
> The ones that drank only?  They'd get violent on occasion.  Those that did other things?  I'd kick them out of the bar, usually with the help of other patrons in the bar.
> 
> Nope.........sorry.........as someone who has tried it, as well as someone who has worked in a bar environment around people who smoked, marijuana isn't any worse than a beer, and probably better.
> 
> You can sober up from being high by eating sugary foods.  You can't do that with alcohol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But why does one need to take it in the first place? Why not deal with life as it really is?
Click to expand...


 same reasons they drink a beer of have a glass of wine, retard


----------



## jillian

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> But look at how many lives it has destroyed just to feel high when you could have had a beer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, people who only smoke cannabis and do no other drugs (yes, there are people like that) generally lead pretty productive lives.
> 
> Matter of fact, I know a computer programmer who owns his own business and makes a pretty good living.
> 
> He doesn't drink, only smokes.
> 
> Most of the violent crimes?  They involve something in ADDITION TO smoking pot.  Matter of fact, for a while, there was a biker bar here in Amarillo where you could go out on the back porch and smoke a joint.  I was a bartender there for 4 1/2 years, and every person who smoked was generally there having a good time.
> 
> The ones that drank only?  They'd get violent on occasion.  Those that did other things?  I'd kick them out of the bar, usually with the help of other patrons in the bar.
> 
> Nope.........sorry.........as someone who has tried it, as well as someone who has worked in a bar environment around people who smoked, marijuana isn't any worse than a beer, and probably better.
> 
> You can sober up from being high by eating sugary foods.  You can't do that with alcohol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But why does one need to take it in the first place? Why not deal with life as it really is?
Click to expand...


why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.


----------



## Bullfighter

jillian said:


> [why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.



It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> [why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.
Click to expand...


 then leave, the average IQ would soar.


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> [
> then leave, the average IQ would soar.



Do Mexican's even know what a toilet is? Why do they cook in the bathroom?


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> then leave, the average IQ would soar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do Mexican's even know what a toilet is? Why do they cook in the bathroom?
Click to expand...


 tough question, just like why did you settle for a high school degree?


----------



## jillian

Bullfighter said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> [why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.
Click to expand...


perhaps if that is your concern, your first responsibility was to raise yourself out of the gutter


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> [
> tough question, just like why did you settle for a high school degree?



Didn't you know that American colleges don't accept fake IDs from Latin America? Your degrees are worthless in the US and Canada.


----------



## Bullfighter

jillian said:


> [
> perhaps if that is your concern, your first responsibility was to raise yourself out of the gutter



The gutter? Isn't that were you get most of your customers?


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> tough question, just like why did you settle for a high school degree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you know that American colleges don't accept fake IDs from Latin America? Your degrees are worthless in the US and Canada.
Click to expand...


 your the one complaining about competing with illagals for you construction jobs. I'm rich, I employ them.


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> [
> 
> your the one complaining about competing with illagals for you construction jobs. I'm rich, I employ them.



See if you can get one to teach you how to spell.


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> your the one complaining about competing with illagals for you construction jobs. I'm rich, I employ them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See if you can get one to teach you how to spell.
Click to expand...


 see if you can get someone with a degree to tell how stupid a name like bullfighter is when you spend half your day crying about mexicans taking your ged level jobs.


----------



## ConHog

Wow, bullfighter vs topspin. Who to root for in this one.... Hmm I root for the Earth to open up and swallow them both.


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> see if you can get someone with a degree to tell how stupid a name like bullfighter is when you spend half your day crying about mexicans taking your ged level jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What part of BULL-fighter do you need explained to you, Mr 2 College Degrees!
Click to expand...


----------



## topspin

the anti-mexican part you fucking dropout.


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> the anti-mexican part you fucking dropout.



I'm either a GED or a dropout. Didn't they teach you nuttin' in college?


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> the anti-mexican part you fucking dropout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm either a GED or a dropout. Didn't they teach you nuttin' in college?
Click to expand...


 I figured you dropped out of college, that's why your poor isn't it?


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> [
> I figured you dropped out of college, that's why your poor isn't it?



No. The Mexicans turned my neighborhood into a toilet. Try reading some of my posts.


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> I figured you dropped out of college, that's why your poor isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. The Mexicans turned my neighborhood into a toilet. Try reading some of my posts.
Click to expand...


 your poor because mexicans moved into your hood?


----------



## Spoonman

Lonestar_logic said:


> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> We grow our own tomatoes.  Nothing as good as a home grown tomato.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have grown them too but millions don't and that is why they are found in the produce market and Farmer's markets all over the country, same with any other plant that is legal and can be grown and eaten.  Most don't want to wait a year to raise their own pot when they can get it quickly somewhere else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A year to grow pot? Well we can tell you're not a farmer.  I can grow one in about 3 to 4 months.
Click to expand...

I grow my own. Using hydroponics you can easily grow a harvestable plant in 3-4 months.


----------



## topspin

If your growing outside it's once a year!!!
 And those growing inside will tell you it's way more than trow a seed and water it.


----------



## Spoonman

topspin said:


> If your growing outside it's once a year!!!
> And those growing inside will tell you it's way more than trow a seed and water it.



I know people who grow outside in the Carolinas and they are pulling in at least two crops a year. The lose at least 5 months out of the year too.  If you just toss a seed in the ground and leave it alone you will get less yield than if you fertilize and water regularly.


----------



## topspin

schwagg, thorw the seed
 Dank, as you know needs TLC and nutes


----------



## Charles_Main

UM actually in Florida at least you can harvest 2 times a year outside 

The Pot plant is a strange thing. Thought of as a annual, it actually can be kept alive for years and years in the right climate, while being harvested by trimming the buds over and over and over.


----------



## topspin

got a love the Rasta religion of treating the herb as holy.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> [why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.
Click to expand...


Defending this country?  Really?  When did you join the military?


----------



## ConHog

ABikerSailor said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> [why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Defending this country?  Really?  When did you join the military?
Click to expand...


Feb 28, 1988. 

As such I think I'm qualified to say this.

I joined and fought for assholes rights to turn this country into a freaking toilet if that is the will of the people. Doesn't mean I have to like it, but I LOVE that they have the right to do it if they so please.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Same here Con Hog.  Apparently BullShitter thinks that just because his festering yob has an opinion, he's gotta force it on everyone.

Hey BullShitter, did YOU join the military?  If not, how the fuck are you "protecting" America?  Are you a firefighter, police or some other form of defense, or, are you just some asshole with an overly large opinion who thinks everyone should think as they do?

I'm guessing the latter.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> Same here Con Hog.  Apparently BullShitter thinks that just because his festering yob has an opinion, he's gotta force it on everyone.
> 
> Hey BullShitter, did YOU join the military?  If not, how the fuck are you "protecting" America?  Are you a firefighter, police or some other form of defense, or, are you just some asshole with an overly large opinion who thinks everyone should think as they do?
> 
> I'm guessing the latter.



Hmmm. You must be what the French of WW2 called a "collaborator". 

A collaborator is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last.


----------



## ConHog

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same here Con Hog.  Apparently BullShitter thinks that just because his festering yob has an opinion, he's gotta force it on everyone.
> 
> Hey BullShitter, did YOU join the military?  If not, how the fuck are you "protecting" America?  Are you a firefighter, police or some other form of defense, or, are you just some asshole with an overly large opinion who thinks everyone should think as they do?
> 
> I'm guessing the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm. You must be what the French of WW2 called a "collaborator".
> 
> A collaborator is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last.
Click to expand...


Who cares what the pussy French call anyone? I'm what us Americans call a lover of freedom, and I believe the COTUS is more than just a document. It is in fact a way of life, either we embrace the entire thing, or we reject the entire thing, there is no middle ground. If you want to live in a state which does not allow sin, you are free to petition to have such laws passed in your own. You are NOT free to come in here and tell me or Biker or anyone else what rules THEY must live by.

You must LOVE some of these politicians who don't understand that concept either.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> [why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.
Click to expand...

and your doing a great job in your neighborhood you stupid fuck......if you call that  defending the Country......STAY WHERE YOU ARE!!!....my neighborhood is just fine......and gee...there are lots of Mexicans here......


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same here Con Hog.  Apparently BullShitter thinks that just because his festering yob has an opinion, he's gotta force it on everyone.
> 
> Hey BullShitter, did YOU join the military?  If not, how the fuck are you "protecting" America?  Are you a firefighter, police or some other form of defense, or, are you just some asshole with an overly large opinion who thinks everyone should think as they do?
> 
> I'm guessing the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm. You must be what the French of WW2 called a "collaborator".
> 
> A collaborator is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last.
Click to expand...


Wrong answer you overly fragrant stool sample..........I'm what the US Navy calls a retiree.

Try again fuckstick.  

And while you're at it, if you're not too much of a pussy to answer..........

Did YOU ever serve in the US Armed Forces?


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> [why do you care what other people do? it's none of your business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Defending this country?  Really?  When did you join the military?
Click to expand...


Join the military to do what? Fight Muslims? They aren't invading the US. Mexicans are.


----------



## Bullfighter

ConHog said:


> [Who cares what the pussy French call anyone? I'm what us Americans call a lover of freedom, and I believe the COTUS is more than just a document. It is in fact a way of life, either we embrace the entire thing, or we reject the entire thing, there is no middle ground. If you want to live in a state which does not allow sin, you are free to petition to have such laws passed in your own. *You are NOT free to come in here and tell me or Biker or anyone else what rules THEY must live by.*
> You must LOVE some of these politicians who don't understand that concept either.



But you'll allow invading Mexicans to tell Americans what to do. You must love living on your knees.


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter I think they should all be deported so you get your job and your hood back. Good luck


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [and your doing a great job in your neighborhood you stupid fuck......if you call that  defending the Country......STAY WHERE YOU ARE!!!....my neighborhood is just fine......and gee...there are lots of Mexicans here......



And I bet you love being their American bitch!


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> Bullfighter I think they should all be deported so you get your job and your hood back. Good luck



Wow! Not one word misspelled. Have a cookie.


----------



## topspin

I'm sorry you have to compete with mexicans for housing and work. If you had gone to college you could just move.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [and your doing a great job in your neighborhood you stupid fuck......if you call that  defending the Country......STAY WHERE YOU ARE!!!....my neighborhood is just fine......and gee...there are lots of Mexicans here......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I bet you love being their American bitch!
Click to expand...


my neighborhood aint nothing like what your describing yours as ......so who is the bitch?.....the guy who is afraid to walk around his place of residence or the guy who isnt?.......your a chicken shit Bull......you bitch and moan but yet you dont want to do anything about improving your life situation......you got what you want and deserve.... afraid to walk out your front door.....and im the Mexicans American bitch?.......


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [my neighborhood aint nothing like what your describing yours as ......so who is the bitch?.....the guy who is afraid to walk around his place of residence or the guy who isnt?.......your a chicken shit Bull......you bitch and moan but yet you dont want to do anything about improving your life situation......you got what you want and deserve.... afraid to walk out your front door.....and im the Mexicans American bitch?.......



You're the person who would make friends with invading scum. After all those years of fighting wars, it will be people like you who will surrender the US to a bunch of third world helper monkeys.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [my neighborhood aint nothing like what your describing yours as ......so who is the bitch?.....the guy who is afraid to walk around his place of residence or the guy who isnt?.......your a chicken shit Bull......you bitch and moan but yet you dont want to do anything about improving your life situation......you got what you want and deserve.... afraid to walk out your front door.....and im the Mexicans American bitch?.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're the person who would make friends with invading scum. After all those years of fighting wars, it will be people like you who will surrender the US to a bunch of third world helper monkeys.
Click to expand...


i notice you cant answer the big question here we have asked you......if your so scared....why dont you move to a lily livered white neighborhood?


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [  i notice you cant answer the big question here we have asked you......if your so scared....why dont you move to a lily livered white neighborhood?



Because REAL Americans don't run away.


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I ever heard. Pot is not cheap even buying it through illegal means. Why are those who smoke it now not simply growing it at home? Everybody claims that it grows like weeds so it will grow anywhere. What do you say, Professor?


If you live in a very rural area or otherwise have access to a safe place to grow some marijuana, then it makes sense to do so.  But lacking a secure gowing spot, before you put some seedlings in the ground and visit the spot from time to time to water and nourish your plants the main thing you need to be concerned with is someone coming across them and reporting it.  Because if they lay for you and you get caught growing marijuana, especially by the door-buster narcs Con Hog used to work with, the charge is "manufacturing" and it is a serious federal felony.  You will go to prison.  

So growing pot is not as simple a proposition as growing tomatoes.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is my business to defend my country against assholes that would turn it into a toilet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defending this country?  Really?  When did you join the military?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Join the military to do what? Fight Muslims? They aren't invading the US. Mexicans are.
Click to expand...


According to GOP spin doctors, Islam is a bigger threat to this nation than anything else, or did you not listen to what they said about the mosque in NY?

By the way Bullshitter, thanks for avoiding the question, it proves you have no spine.


----------



## KissMy

Tour driver smoked pot heavily for several days before falling asleep at the wheel and crashing in Utah, killing three Japanese tourists and injuring 11 other passengers


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> No. The Mexicans turned my neighborhood into a toilet. Try reading some of my posts.


Do you think that circumstance has influenced your perceptions and your socio-political attitude?  If you lived in a different environment, such as Greenwich Village West, Brooklyn Heights or some parts of San Francisco which are inhabited by middle-class intellectuals, artists and professionals, most of whom enjoy marijuana -- but not publicly, it is quite likely you would not be so biased against something which essentially is harmless.  

If you are a native American who is forced by circumstances to live within a migrant culture it is understandable that you would come to resent certain stereotypical behaviors and tend to believe all the negative propaganda you might read or hear about them.  But for the purpose of this discussion it would be helpful for you to acknowledge that everyone who smokes or otherwise ingests marijuana does not wear a flannel shirt buttoned to the neck along with a hairnet.


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> But why does one need to take it in the first place?


There is no "need" to use marijuana.  Some people happen to like the effect.  Some people like riding on roller coasters.  Some people like Italian food.  Some people like jazz.  Some people like sky-diving, swimming in the ocean, and on and on.  



> Why not deal with life as it really is?


Life as it really is includes such things as riding on roller coasters, eating Italian food, listening to jass, and on and on.  

It is likely that you enjoy certain things that I wouldn't like, and vice versa.  But that's life.


----------



## MikeK

topspin said:


> If your growing outside it's once a year!!!
> And those growing inside will tell you it's way more than trow a seed and water it.


I tried it once and it failed.


----------



## MikeK

KissMy said:


> Tour driver smoked pot heavily for several days before falling asleep at the wheel and crashing in Utah, killing three Japanese tourists and injuring 11 other passengers


What else contributed to that accident?  How about lack of sleep, which usually is what makes people fall asleep at the wheel -- not marijuana!  How does anyone know that driver had been smoking pot heavily for several days?  And what else was he using in addition to marijuana?


----------



## eots

MikeK said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I ever heard. Pot is not cheap even buying it through illegal means. Why are those who smoke it now not simply growing it at home? Everybody claims that it grows like weeds so it will grow anywhere. What do you say, Professor?
> 
> 
> 
> If you live in a very rural area or otherwise have access to a safe place to grow some marijuana, then it makes sense to do so.  But lacking a secure gowing spot, before you put some seedlings in the ground and visit the spot from time to time to water and nourish your plants the main thing you need to be concerned with is someone coming across them and reporting it.  Because if they lay for you and get caught growing marijuana, especially by the door-buster narcs Con Hog used to work with, the charge is "manufacturing" and it is a serious federal felony.  You will go to prison.
> 
> So growing pot is not as simple a proposition as growing tomatoes.
Click to expand...


deer are my biggest concern...fuckers


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [
> According to GOP spin doctors, Islam is a bigger threat to this nation than anything else, or did you not listen to what they said about the mosque in NY?
> 
> By the way Bullshitter, thanks for avoiding the question, it proves you have no spine.



Biker? Sailor? How gay can you get!!


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> According to GOP spin doctors, Islam is a bigger threat to this nation than anything else, or did you not listen to what they said about the mosque in NY?
> 
> By the way Bullshitter, thanks for avoiding the question, it proves you have no spine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biker? Sailor? How gay can you get!!
Click to expand...


The biker comes from not only do I own a Harley which I've ridden to Sturgis from Amarillo no less than 3 times, but also to the fact that I also own and ride a Lemond Zurich bicycle.  I've done over 1300 miles since the end of May, and hope to be at around 2000 by the time of the first snow.

Sailor comes from the fact that I've served 20 years in the US Navy.  26 different countries, 49 different states and 4 war zones.

What do you do?  Oh yeah.........bitch about Mexicans from behind the safety of a computer screen.


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRg0NN_SZM&feature=related]YouTube - OUTDOOR MONSTER MARIJUANA GUERILLA GROW 2010, GROW #1[/ame]


----------



## Charles_Main

MikeK said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tour driver smoked pot heavily for several days before falling asleep at the wheel and crashing in Utah, killing three Japanese tourists and injuring 11 other passengers
> 
> 
> 
> What else contributed to that accident?  How about lack of sleep, which usually is what makes people fall asleep at the wheel -- not marijuana!  How does anyone know that driver had been smoking pot heavily for several days?  And what else was he using in addition to marijuana?
Click to expand...


The answer is in most cases they can not. The average test for Pot only shows you have smoked it in the last few weeks. They have no way of knowing how long before driving he smoked, and it is silly to try and blame his falling asleep on it.


----------



## ABikerSailor

You know..........one of my neighbors had a plant outdoors (actually about 3 houses down the street) like that Eots.

Too bad the cops busted him though.........he said that he got 1 joint off of it, and it was awesome.


----------



## JiggsCasey

Bullfighter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give us the names of people who smoke pot yet never took any other drug? They don't exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides me, and dozens of people I know? LOL.
> 
> Yes, they exist... In fact, most pot smokers stick with pot and nothing harder. Remove head from rectum before pontificating something you know nothing about, please.
Click to expand...


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  i notice you cant answer the big question here we have asked you......if your so scared....why dont you move to a lily livered white neighborhood?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because REAL Americans don't run away.
Click to expand...


.....geezus your a dumbass.....stay where you are Bull....stay locked in your house.....be a REAL American.....fucking idiot.....


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [.
> 
> Sailor comes from the fact that I've served 20 years in the US Navy.  26 different countries, 49 different states and 4 war zones.
> 
> What do you do?  Oh yeah.........bitch about Mexicans from behind the safety of a computer screen.



Wow. 20 years in a man's only world. Isn't that what gay is all about? I'll bet you "served your fellow man" with passion! HA! HA! HA!


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [  i notice you cant answer the big question here we have asked you......if your so scared....why dont you move to a lily livered white neighborhood?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because REAL Americans don't run away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .....geezus your a dumbass.....stay where you are Bull....stay locked in your house.....be a REAL American.....fucking idiot.....
Click to expand...


Collaborate with the Mexicans who invade the US. Maybe they'll throw you in the concentration camp last.


----------



## Lonestar_logic

johnrocks said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> johnrocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have grown them too but millions don't and that is why they are found in the produce market and Farmer's markets all over the country, same with any other plant that is legal and can be grown and eaten.  Most don't want to wait a year to raise their own pot when they can get it quickly somewhere else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A year to grow pot? Well we can tell you're not a farmer.  I can grow one in about 3 to 4 months.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was born and raised on a farm, we just never grew pot.
Click to expand...


What  are you planting that takes a year to grow?


----------



## Lonestar_logic

rikules said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Replace the word pot with alcohol. Of course, we all know how prohibition worked so well the last time we enacted it before the War on Drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you grow alcohol let me know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People brew their own beer and make their own wine
> 
> I know lots of people who do one or the other.
Click to expand...


Damn you're stupid.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [.
> 
> Sailor comes from the fact that I've served 20 years in the US Navy.  26 different countries, 49 different states and 4 war zones.
> 
> What do you do?  Oh yeah.........bitch about Mexicans from behind the safety of a computer screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. 20 years in a man's only world. Isn't that what gay is all about? I'll bet you "served your fellow man" with passion! HA! HA! HA!
Click to expand...


Actually, in '83 when I started my career, women were starting to become integrated on ships, and on my second sea tour onboard a carrier (USS DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER), they were integrating women on forward deployed units.

So, wrong answer yet again Bullshitter.........women have served on every ship I've been on with the exception of my first one, as that is when women were being phased into the fleet.

So.........I ask yet again........what have YOU personally done to make this country safer, other than bitching about Mexicans from the safety of your computer screen?

Like I said, you're just a coward.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [Actually, in '83 when I started my career, women were starting to become integrated on ships, and on my second sea tour onboard a carrier (USS DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER), they were integrating women on forward deployed units.



And I'll bet those women were twice the man you are.




> So, wrong answer yet again Bullshitter.........women have served on every ship I've been on with the exception of my first one, as that is when women were being phased into the fleet.



Sorry to hear you had all that competition. But I'll bet you tried harder!



> So.........I ask yet again........what have YOU personally done to make this country safer, other than bitching about Mexicans from the safety of your computer screen?
> 
> Like I said, you're just a coward.



Now exactly how did you keep America safe. The Mexicans aren't coming across by ships.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> .....geezus your a dumbass.....stay where you are Bull....stay locked in your house.....be a REAL American.....fucking idiot.....



Not like you huh! Look up the definition of "white flight" and a picture of your scared ass will be there surrounded by the National Guard.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> .....geezus your a dumbass.....stay where you are Bull....stay locked in your house.....be a REAL American.....fucking idiot.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not like you huh! Look up the definition of "white flight" and a picture of your scared ass will be there surrounded by the National Guard.
Click to expand...


so stay where you are you stupid fuck.....you are winning the battle we can tell.....have you used ALL your furniture to pile up in front of the door?....what do you sit on?.....i bet those home boys laugh like a mother fucker when they see your scrawny white ass running down the street.........."hey look....its the Joto"...


----------



## Full-Auto

Harry Dresden said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> .....geezus your a dumbass.....stay where you are Bull....stay locked in your house.....be a REAL American.....fucking idiot.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not like you huh! Look up the definition of "white flight" and a picture of your scared ass will be there surrounded by the National Guard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so stay where you are you stupid fuck.....you are winning the battle we can tell.....have you used ALL your furniture to pile up in front of the door?....what do you sit on?.....i bet those home boys laugh like a mother fucker when they see your scrawny white ass running down the street.........."hey look....its the Joto"...
Click to expand...


Just curious

It is worth the effort?  Some men you just cant reach.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> so stay where you are you stupid fuck.....you are winning the battle we can tell.....have you used ALL your furniture to pile up in front of the door?....what do you sit on?.....i bet those home boys laugh like a mother fucker when they see your scrawny white ass running down the street.........."hey look....its the Joto"...



You are among the great men in history that ran away. 

Just think of the movie "The Alamo". John Wayne would look one Mexican in the eye and yell "Let's get the hell out of here!". No battle just Mexicans laughing as Crockett, Bowie, and Travis run around like scared litle girls. Now would that be worth the price of crappy moviehouse popcorn. 

But that is what you would do. You would let the bandit babies take over the whole country because you can't look these monkeys in the eye.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Full-Auto said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not like you huh! Look up the definition of "white flight" and a picture of your scared ass will be there surrounded by the National Guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so stay where you are you stupid fuck.....you are winning the battle we can tell.....have you used ALL your furniture to pile up in front of the door?....what do you sit on?.....i bet those home boys laugh like a mother fucker when they see your scrawny white ass running down the street.........."hey look....its the Joto"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just curious
> 
> It is worth the effort?  Some men you just cant reach.
Click to expand...


he is kinda like Dean is with Republicans.....only this Puto throws the blanket over ALL Mexicans.....so i know he is to stupid to reach....but i will keep hitting him just to hear the thud against his thick skull......its a distraction from the serious posts.....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> so stay where you are you stupid fuck.....you are winning the battle we can tell.....have you used ALL your furniture to pile up in front of the door?....what do you sit on?.....i bet those home boys laugh like a mother fucker when they see your scrawny white ass running down the street.........."hey look....its the Joto"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are among the great men in history that ran away.
> 
> Just think of the movie "The Alamo". John Wayne would look one Mexican in the eye and yell "Let's get the hell out of here!". No battle just Mexicans laughing as Crockett, Bowie, and Travis run around like scared litle girls. Now would that be worth the price of crappy moviehouse popcorn.
> 
> But that is what you would do. You would let the bandit babies take over the whole country because you can't look these monkeys in the eye.
Click to expand...

.....your comparing your life situation to a movie?....hey Moron....the Alamo was a little bit different situation then what is happening today.....John Wayne was an ACTOR.....geezus your stupid.....


----------



## editec

Oh for God's sakes.

Growing marijuna is easy.

It's freaking weed!

If there's any skill involved at all, it's curing it after harvest.

Now if it were legal, I suspect that the price would be so low that most people would buy it.

But as to it's cultivation?

Any fool can grow decent pot and in every climate in the USA, too.

Pot illegality is a political TOOL, folks.

It has NO TOXICITY level.

Can it be addictive?

Yes, psychologically it can be.

But then too, *everything *can be addictive psychologically.

If one smokes every day and one gives it up you might have some slight trouble sleeping for a night or two.  Note that I say MIGHT?

THAT is the extent of it's withdrawl, and a substances addictive properties are directly related to the *physiological *symptons of withdrawl.

Hell folks, giving up COFFEE has more dramatic and unpleasants physiological effects than giving up hemp.  Like screaming headaches

I speak with the authority of somebody who uses both (for the last four decades) and periodically gives both up.

There is only ONE reason to keep pot illegal...to EMPOWER THE GOVERNMENT to screw with people.

If you're into giving your government authority over you, then by all means you ought to support the continues prohibitions on it.

If you believe that the ONLY reason to enpower government is to protect the commonweal, then you ought to be opposed to marijuana prohibition.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> Same stuff. Mexicans trying to push Americans around. You let them push you around but you are so pathetic, you think it is your idea.
> 
> _"You're (empire is) like an old maid servant, accustomed to being raped by everyone."
> Napoleon to the defeated Austrians_​


----------



## MikeK

editec said:


> [...]
> 
> There is only ONE reason to keep pot illegal...to EMPOWER THE GOVERNMENT to screw with people.
> 
> [...]


 
I agree with everything you've said in your message -- with the single exception retained above.  

In addition to reducing the law enforcement bureaucracy and reducing the national prison census, legalizing marijuana will have a significantly negative impact on the bottom lines of several major industries, outstandingly prison construction, liquor, pharmaceutical, timber and oil.

It is a little known but tragic fact that prison construction and operation is the only remaining growth industry in America.  Our nation presently confines more of its citizens per capita than any other nation in the world, and a significant number of our prisons inmates are there because of anti-marijuana laws.

Tranquilizers are one of the most profitable products of the pharmaceutical industry but there is no better tranquilizer available than marijuana, which is useful for other medical applications -- and is not addictive.  

A significant percentage of Americans who presently drink alcohol to "loosen up" or "take the edge off the day" will switch to smoking or eating marijuana once they discover its superior effect and the absence of negative consequences, such as hangover, addiction and liver damage.  

Hemp is a plentiful source of oil which is useful for many industrial and domestic applications and is refinable as fuel.  

Hemp fiber produces a much better grade of paper than wood pulp and reducing the harvesting of timber will be good for the environment.  

There are more industries that would be affected by marijuana legalization.  Together they contribute a significant amount of money to our representatives in Washington who routinely vote to protect the interests of their corporate sponsors.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Same stuff. Mexicans trying to push Americans around. You let them push you around but you are so pathetic, you think it is your idea.



lets recap.....you say your scared to go out of your house.....big bad gang bangers gonna hurt you.....your neighborhood is a toilet...your words.....Mexicans have ruined everything,once again...your words............

my neighborhood i can go out anytime.....no bangers.....not a toilet.....and my GOD....there are Mexicans all around here..........

now who is being pushed around by those Rascally Mexicans?.....me.....or little scared scrawny white boy named BULL SHITTER.....


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Actually, in '83 when I started my career, women were starting to become integrated on ships, and on my second sea tour onboard a carrier (USS DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER), they were integrating women on forward deployed units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll bet those women were twice the man you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, wrong answer yet again Bullshitter.........women have served on every ship I've been on with the exception of my first one, as that is when women were being phased into the fleet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear you had all that competition. But I'll bet you tried harder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So.........I ask yet again........what have YOU personally done to make this country safer, other than bitching about Mexicans from the safety of your computer screen?
> 
> Like I said, you're just a coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now exactly how did you keep America safe. The Mexicans aren't coming across by ships.
Click to expand...


Hey Bullshitter.......ever heard of Beruit in '83?  How's about Desert Storm in the 90's?  Kosovo perhaps?

Last I checked dipshit, it wasn't the Mexicans blowing up buildings and conducting terrorist attacks against the US.

Like I said pussy, you're a coward.


----------



## Harry Dresden

ABikerSailor said:


> Hey Bullshitter.......ever heard of Beruit in '83?  How's about Desert Storm in the 90's?  Kosovo perhaps?
> 
> Last I checked dipshit, it wasn't the Mexicans blowing up buildings and conducting terrorist attacks against the US.
> 
> Like I said pussy, you're a coward.



be easy on him Abs.....there are probably some Mexican 10 year olds hanging out in front of his place waiting to kick his ass when he comes out of his prison....


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same stuff. Mexicans trying to push Americans around. You let them push you around but you are so pathetic, you think it is your idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lets recap.....you say your scared to go out of your house.....big bad gang bangers gonna hurt you.....your neighborhood is a toilet...your words.....Mexicans have ruined everything,once again...your words............
> 
> my neighborhood i can go out anytime.....no bangers.....not a toilet.....and my GOD....there are Mexicans all around here..........
> 
> now who is being pushed around by those Rascally Mexicans?.....me.....or little scared scrawny white boy named BULL SHITTER.....
Click to expand...


My neighborhood is a shithole, but I judge it by American standards. You judge your neighborhood by Mexican standard where having indoor plumbing is reserved for the President of Mexico. Most Mexicans think a toilet bowl is just a big pot for cooking when company comes over.

And why would you judge your Mexican buddies as evil if you're evil too? How do you like the smell of their cooking? I'm not talking about Taco Bell which is food adapted for Americans. The real authentic stuff stinks doesn't it? If you were an American, you would know the difference.

So why no just put on your sombrero, get drunk, and piss all over yourself! Now that's Mexican!


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [Hey Bullshitter.......ever heard of Beruit in '83?  How's about Desert Storm in the 90's?  Kosovo perhaps?
> 
> Last I checked dipshit, it wasn't the Mexicans blowing up buildings and conducting terrorist attacks against the US.
> 
> Like I said pussy, you're a coward.



How many sailors were actually in danger at any of the places you just mentioned? But I have seen a little old AMERICAN lady on her way to church being attacked by your buddies IN AMERICA! Yeah, you really protect AMERICANS! 

And who benefitted by removing most of the US Armed Forces from the US and away from the Mexican border.

Let's see.............. I'll give you time to think because I know you're a dumb fuck who just follows whatever order are given him............just like an idiot!

Go back on your boat where it's nice and safe.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [be easy on him Abs.....there are probably some Mexican 10 year olds hanging out in front of his place waiting to kick his ass when he comes out of his prison....



Why don't you join your buddy on his "Love Boat"! HA! HA! HA!


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> My neighborhood is a shithole, but I judge it by American standards. You judge your neighborhood by Mexican standard where having indoor plumbing is reserved for the President of Mexico. Most Mexicans think a toilet bowl is just a big pot for cooking when company comes over.
> 
> And why would you judge your Mexican buddies as evil if you're evil too? How do you like the smell of their cooking? I'm not talking about Taco Bell which is food adapted for Americans. The real authentic stuff stinks doesn't it? If you were an American, you would know the difference.
> 
> So why no just put on your sombrero, get drunk, and piss all over yourself! Now that's Mexican!



dont ever call yourself an American you hapless half witted idiot......AN American betters himself.....an American will not sit in a shithole when a decent Neighborhood is a few miles down the road.....an American does not sit and cry about a bunch of Mexicans "keeping me down"......being an American is something so lost on you,that i am starting to feel sorry for you......An INTELLIGENT person of ANY nationality will get the fuck out of a neighborhood that they are scared shitless of.......your a dipshit ......a coward.....a bigot.....and most importantly.....A FUCKING PUSSY......


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> My neighborhood is a shithole, but I judge it by American standards. You judge your neighborhood by Mexican standard where having indoor plumbing is reserved for the President of Mexico. Most Mexicans think a toilet bowl is just a big pot for cooking when company comes over.
> 
> And why would you judge your Mexican buddies as evil if you're evil too? How do you like the smell of their cooking? I'm not talking about Taco Bell which is food adapted for Americans. The real authentic stuff stinks doesn't it? If you were an American, you would know the difference.
> 
> So why no just put on your sombrero, get drunk, and piss all over yourself! Now that's Mexican!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dont ever call yourself an American you hapless half witted idiot......AN American betters himself.....an American will not sit in a shithole when a decent Neighborhood is a few miles down the road.....an American does not sit and cry about a bunch of Mexicans "keeping me down"......being an American is something so lost on you,that i am starting to feel sorry for you......An INTELLIGENT person of ANY nationality will get the fuck out of a neighborhood that they are scared shitless of.......your a dipshit ......a coward.....a bigot.....and most importantly.....A FUCKING PUSSY......
Click to expand...


But I'm not scared of living here, you Mexican wannabe. I know you want to be Mexican because they have life so easy. When they moved into your neighborhood and you went screaming to your momma saying the brown smelly people are staring at you, you asked her to buy you a sombrero so you could look stupid too and fit in.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> But I'm not scared of living here, you Mexican wannabe. I know you want to be Mexican *because they have life so easy*. When they moved into your neighborhood and you went screaming to your momma saying the brown smelly people are staring at you, you asked her to buy you a sombrero so you could look stupid too and fit in.



to late you dumbass......3 different threads.....dozens of posts from a pussy bigot named Bullshitter crying to everyone about how scared he is to live in his pisspot ghetto he calls home...........the Mexicans are here im so scared.....and then you stupid fuck.....you say they have life so easy....while you dont?......so who is the ones with the brains here .......geezus your stupid........keep posting this is fun....


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> YOU and YOUR BUDDIES make it easy for the invading spics, you piece of crap. You must fear the day you die for veterans who fought for this country are standing in line waiting to get their hands on the traitors who help the enemies of Americans. BURN BABY BURN!


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> YOU and YOUR BUDDIES make it easy for the invading spics, you piece of crap. You must fear the day you die for veterans who fought for this country are standing in line waiting to get their hands on the traitors who help the enemies of Americans. BURN BABY BURN!



you fucking hypocrite.....in a few of your other posts your bad mouthing the Vets.....now they are your heroes?....keep going dildo.....you get better each time you open your yap......geezus you must be a dumb fuck.....


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> you fucking hypocrite.....in a few of your other posts your bad mouthing the Vets.....now they are your heroes?....keep going dildo.....you get better each time you open your yap......geezus you must be a dumb fuck.....



And how many Mexicans from Mexico were there helping out Americans during all the wars of the 20th Century?

How many Latino names are on the Declaration of Independence?

Oh, come on! Start inventing stuff. That's what the **** politicians in Illinois do. 

Your so pathetic, you even read like a Mexican. Only the stuff that makes Mexicans sound good.

Did your Mexican buddies go to church today? No? Oh yeah. They are exempt from following the 10 Commandments. See how special they are!


----------



## editec

Man!

This thread disintigrated into pointless _ad hominen_ insults.

What a waste of asciii.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> And how many Mexicans from Mexico were there helping out Americans during all the wars of the 20th Century?
> 
> How many Latino names are on the Declaration of Independence?
> 
> Oh, come on! Start inventing stuff. That's what the **** politicians in Illinois do.
> 
> Your so pathetic, you even read like a Mexican. Only the stuff that makes Mexicans sound good.
> 
> Did your Mexican buddies go to church today? No? Oh yeah. They are exempt from following the 10 Commandments. See how special they are!



well there is one thing here you cant deny Bullshitter.....when you run into the "Spics" in your neighborhood.......you are not only scared shitless,im sure you dont have much to say.....pussy that you are.....


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [well there is one thing here you cant deny Bullshitter.....when you run into the "Spics" in your neighborhood.......you are not only scared shitless,im sure you dont have much to say.....pussy that you are.....



I don't speak ****. And if they stare at me, I stare right back. They're just stupid Mexicans.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [well there is one thing here you cant deny Bullshitter.....when you run into the "Spics" in your neighborhood.......you are not only scared shitless,im sure you dont have much to say.....pussy that you are.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't speak ****. And if they stare at me, I stare right back. They're just stupid Mexicans.
Click to expand...


yea right.....the way you talk about them.....i seriously doubt it.....only a fucking scared shitless wuss would post the shit you have posted......otherwise you would not have said half the things you said about them.....your scared.....just say it.....be a man.....nothing to be ashamed of.....i wont laugh.....


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> yea right.....the way you talk about them.....i seriously doubt it.....only a fucking scared shitless wuss would post the shit you have posted......otherwise you would not have said half the things you said about them.....your scared.....just say it.....be a man.....nothing to be ashamed of.....i wont laugh.....



Why should I be afraid? Are you afraid of the Mexicans that are your buddies?


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> yea right.....the way you talk about them.....i seriously doubt it.....only a fucking scared shitless wuss would post the shit you have posted......otherwise you would not have said half the things you said about them.....your scared.....just say it.....be a man.....nothing to be ashamed of.....i wont laugh.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should I be afraid? Are you afraid of the Mexicans that are your buddies?
Click to expand...


if they are my buddies....why would i be afraid?....and hey....just by what you tell us here.....your scared shitless.....it must be terrible to not be able to walk outside without the little kids calling you names and throwing shit at you.....and then you cant do nothing because the bigger guys will kick your ass...........you fucking pussy....


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> if they are my buddies....why would i be afraid?....and hey....just by what you tell us here.....your scared shitless.....it must be terrible to not be able to walk outside without the little kids calling you names and throwing shit at you.....and then you cant do nothing because the bigger guys will kick your ass...........you fucking pussy....



Tell us about your buddies. 

Have they stolen funds that belong to poor Americans? 

Are they living in better homes than you can afford because they have sources that are denied to Americans, like LA RAZA? 

Are you driving a rusted pick up while they have brand new SUVs? 

Have they fucked up the public schools in your area so much that the kids of all races speak with a **** accent? 

Do you kids have their pants hanging around their ankles?

Are they covered with tattoos and have metal in their tongues and noses so they resemble bushmen?

Are you now more Mexican than American?

Do you identify with the invaders?


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Tell us about your buddies.
> 
> Have they stolen funds that belong to poor Americans?
> 
> Are they living in better homes than you can afford because they have sources that are denied to Americans, like LA RAZA?
> 
> Are you driving a rusted pick up while they have brand new SUVs?
> 
> Have they fucked up the public schools in your area so much that the kids of all races speak with a **** accent?
> 
> Do you kids have their pants hanging around their ankles?
> 
> Are they covered with tattoos and have metal in their tongues and noses so they resemble bushmen?
> 
> Are you now more Mexican than American?
> 
> Do you identify with the invaders?



no to every one of those.....but i bet its yes in that hole you live in.......your nightmares have bettered themselves and you havent.....dam you must be a dumbass.........


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> no to every one of those.....but i bet its yes in that hole you live in.......your nightmares have bettered themselves and you havent.....dam you must be a dumbass.........



With people like you, betraying poor Americans, buying dope, and supporting the Mexican invasion of the United States, how can they lose.


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> no to every one of those.....but i bet its yes in that hole you live in.......your nightmares have bettered themselves and you havent.....dam you must be a dumbass.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With people like you, betraying poor Americans, buying dope, and supporting the Mexican invasion of the United States, how can they lose.
Click to expand...


 you rednecks supporting prohibition are keeping the cartels fat and happy you dumbass, your not to old to go to college. Not that you'd get in.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> if they are my buddies....why would i be afraid?....and hey....just by what you tell us here.....your scared shitless.....it must be terrible to not be able to walk outside without the little kids calling you names and throwing shit at you.....and then you cant do nothing because the bigger guys will kick your ass...........you fucking pussy....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us about your buddies.
> 
> Have they stolen funds that belong to poor Americans?
> 
> Are they living in better homes than you can afford because they have sources that are denied to Americans, like LA RAZA?
> 
> Are you driving a rusted pick up while they have brand new SUVs?
> 
> Have they fucked up the public schools in your area so much that the kids of all races speak with a **** accent?
> 
> Do you kids have their pants hanging around their ankles?
> 
> Are they covered with tattoos and have metal in their tongues and noses so they resemble bushmen?
> 
> Are you now more Mexican than American?
> 
> Do you identify with the invaders?
Click to expand...


Quick question there fuckstick.........are you a KKK member, Aryan Nation or just some fringe militia?

Racist assholes like you should have their asses kicked daily by someone who isn't white.

BTW asshole.......you know NOTHING about how the military operates.


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> [
> 
> you rednecks supporting prohibition are keeping the cartels fat and happy you dumbass, your not to old to go to college. Not that you'd get in.



I've been to college, but not as the janitor, like you.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [Quick question there fuckstick.........are you a KKK member, Aryan Nation or just some fringe militia?
> 
> Racist assholes like you should have their asses kicked daily by someone who isn't white.
> 
> BTW asshole.......you know NOTHING about how the military operates.



And you know all about the Military from one date with a sailor?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Quick question there fuckstick.........are you a KKK member, Aryan Nation or just some fringe militia?
> 
> Racist assholes like you should have their asses kicked daily by someone who isn't white.
> 
> BTW asshole.......you know NOTHING about how the military operates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you know all about the Military from one date with a sailor?
Click to expand...


Yeah..........the "one date" was from 1982 Jul until 2002 Aug, and the sailor was me.  I'm retired from the Navy idiot.

BTW...........nice change on the avi Bullshitter, fits you to a "t", just some young punk who's trying to blend in with Mexicans because they're scared shitless (hence the diaper).

You probably never served because cowards rarely if ever, enlist.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [
> Yeah..........the "one date" was from 1982 Jul until 2002 Aug, and the sailor was me.  I'm retired from the Navy idiot.
> 
> BTW...........nice change on the avi Bullshitter, fits you to a "t", just some young punk who's trying to blend in with Mexicans because they're scared shitless (hence the diaper).
> 
> You probably never served because cowards rarely if ever, enlist.



You spent all that time in the Navy and they never found out you were gay? It is the service that attracts the most homosexuals. I guess it's the showering together that raises the flag.

My avitar is how most Americans should feel when they are forced into the culture of the damned.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> no to every one of those.....but i bet its yes in that hole you live in.......your nightmares have bettered themselves and you havent.....dam you must be a dumbass.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With people like you, betraying poor Americans, buying dope, and supporting the Mexican invasion of the United States, how can they lose.
Click to expand...


in other words.....all the Mexicans around me are living better than me......so instead of doing something about it.....ill just cry here at the USMB.........dam your a dumbass.....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> you rednecks supporting prohibition are keeping the cartels fat and happy you dumbass, your not to old to go to college. Not that you'd get in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to college, but not as the janitor, like you.
Click to expand...


yea you went to eat your fucking lunch.....now look at ya....a overweight moron stuck in a neighborhood where he gets made fun of by the little kids...........do you hear....."hey look its Gordo" a lot?......


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> My avitar is how most Americans should feel when they are forced into the culture of the damned.



no its not asshole.....most Americans DO SOMETHING about their life situation or at least try......your Avi fits YOU craphead.....you come here and cry about the bad "Mexicans"......they are keeping me down..........they wont let me go outside...........they make fun of me...........they call me .. Gordo Mas Puto...........your not only a very stupid individual.....your pathetic.....a disgrace to the Nation.....nothing worse than a Bigoted anti-Military loser.....my Doctor Who action figure has more pride in itself then you do...........


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> Yeah..........the "one date" was from 1982 Jul until 2002 Aug, and the sailor was me.  I'm retired from the Navy idiot.
> 
> BTW...........nice change on the avi Bullshitter, fits you to a "t", just some young punk who's trying to blend in with Mexicans because they're scared shitless (hence the diaper).
> 
> You probably never served because cowards rarely if ever, enlist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You spent all that time in the Navy and they never found out you were gay? It is the service that attracts the most homosexuals. I guess it's the showering together that raises the flag.
> 
> My avitar is how most Americans should feel when they are forced into the culture of the damned.
Click to expand...


Spent 20 years in the Navy, 4 war zones and a lot of women...........matter of fact, if you wanna know how "gay" I am, ask your girlfriend.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> in other words.....all the Mexicans around me are living better than me......so instead of doing something about it.....ill just cry here at the USMB.........dam your a dumbass.....



But the theiving Mexicans will be exposed and the money returned or Mexico will be nuked into the stoneage. It's asslickers like you that helped Mexico invade in the first place.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> 
> yea you went to eat your fucking lunch.....now look at ya....a overweight moron stuck in a neighborhood where he gets made fun of by the little kids...........do you hear....."hey look its Gordo" a lot?......



Why don't you put a sombrero on Dr. Who? Do the Mexicans know you play with a doll?


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> no its not asshole.....most Americans DO SOMETHING about their life situation or at least try......your Avi fits YOU craphead.....you come here and cry about the bad "Mexicans"......they are keeping me down..........they wont let me go outside...........they make fun of me...........they call me .. Gordo Mas Puto...........your not only a very stupid individual.....your pathetic.....a disgrace to the Nation.....nothing worse than a Bigoted anti-Military loser.....my Doctor Who action figure has more pride in itself then you do...........



I'll bet you talk to your dolly when you have your Mexican gardner jam it in your ass!

He must think you are one crazy whiteboy.

He goes home and tells his wife and her 8 kids from different family members how a white boy plays with Mr Gay Action Figure.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [Spent 20 years in the Navy, 4 war zones and a lot of women...........matter of fact, if you wanna know how "gay" I am, ask your girlfriend.



You could have joined any service and had women, but you picked the Navy so you would get to shower with all the boys.

Did you ever even shoot a gun?


----------



## topspin

bull what college did you go too, that produces a racist loser that is woefully unable to support a decent lifestyle.


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> bull what college did you go too, that produces a racist loser that is woefully unable to support a decent lifestyle.



If you live in a gated community, how did you get to college? Does a security guard go with you and hold your hand or what?


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> in other words.....all the Mexicans around me are living better than me......so instead of doing something about it.....ill just cry here at the USMB.........dam your a dumbass.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the theiving Mexicans will be exposed and the money returned or Mexico will be nuked into the stoneage. It's asslickers like you that helped Mexico invade in the first place.
Click to expand...


sorry Gordo i wasnt around in the early part of the 20th Century.....if you paid attention in school instead of waiting for lunch....you might have known this.....dam your stupid.....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> I'll bet you talk to your dolly when you have your Mexican gardner jam it in your ass!
> 
> He must think you are one crazy whiteboy.
> 
> He goes home and tells his wife and her 8 kids from different family members how a white boy plays with Mr Gay Action Figure.



whats the matter Gordo....getting flustered and can no longer defend your position on Mexicans?......are you still scared to go out at night?......how about the daytime?.....cant go out at night....the Vatos will see me and kick my bigoted ass...again.....cant go out in the daytime....the little Cholos throw shit at me and call me names.....must suck to be a pathetic cowardly loser.....dam your an idiot.....move you stupid fuck....


----------



## topspin

if he went to college, he must be something like a programmer that keeps his head down 24/7 or like cornNarc a history major that slacked through.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> sorry Gordo i wasnt around in the early part of the 20th Century.....if you paid attention in school instead of waiting for lunch....you might have known this.....dam your stupid.....



And if you were paying attention instead of playing with your dolly of Dr Who, the kids wouldn't have kicked your tiny brain out of its holder.


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> whats the matter Gordo....getting flustered and can no longer defend your position on Mexicans?......are you still scared to go out at night?......how about the daytime?.....cant go out at night....the Vatos will see me and kick my bigoted ass...again.....cant go out in the daytime....the little Cholos throw shit at me and call me names.....must suck to be a pathetic cowardly loser.....dam your an idiot.....move you stupid fuck....



Ah yes. Add a little **** to the message. That must have sunk in when you were giving the gang bangers your ass to play with.


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> if he went to college, he must be something like a programmer that keeps his head down 24/7 or like cornNarc a history major that slacked through.



What if one day someone is not at his post and Mexicans come flooding into your neighborhood? They breed like rats. You'll never get rid of them. You'll have to learn Spanish just to swear at them.


----------



## editec

The premise of this thread is based on a lie.

Right now the number one drug problem in my area (according to our local police chief) is really perscription drugs like Oxi and ritalin I( and their me too drugs).

More people locally smoke POT, of course, but that doesn't become a police problem except for the occassional pot bust.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> bull what college did you go too, that produces a racist loser that is woefully unable to support a decent lifestyle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you live in a gated community, how did you get to college? Does a security guard go with you and hold your hand or what?
Click to expand...


geezus you are stupid...........and pathetic......and a fucking LOSER!!......


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> [Spent 20 years in the Navy, 4 war zones and a lot of women...........matter of fact, if you wanna know how "gay" I am, ask your girlfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could have joined any service and had women, but you picked the Navy so you would get to shower with all the boys.
> 
> Did you ever even shoot a gun?
Click to expand...


Yep, qualified as sharpshooter on both the .45 and the 9mm pistol, also qualified on a 12 gauge shotgun, as well as was squad leader for Security Forces.

By the way BullShitter, you DO realize that the whole reason cannabis was made illegal in the first place was because of some racist asshole named Anslinger who hated the brown and the black people as much as you, right?

Additionally, filling your gas tank contributes more to terrorism than buying an ounce of pot, because all the profits of the gas companies go to the middle east.

You really are a sad stupid little racist bastard, ain't ya?


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> geezus you are stupid...........and pathetic......and a fucking LOSER!!......



Who writes your material? I would ask for a refund.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [Yep, qualified as sharpshooter on both the .45 and the 9mm pistol, also qualified on a 12 gauge shotgun, as well as was squad leader for Security Forces.
> 
> By the way BullShitter, you DO realize that the whole reason cannabis was made illegal in the first place was because of some racist asshole named Anslinger who hated the brown and the black people as much as you, right?
> 
> Additionally, filling your gas tank contributes more to terrorism than buying an ounce of pot, because all the profits of the gas companies go to the middle east.
> 
> You really are a sad stupid little racist bastard, ain't ya?



My God! That actually put a gun in your hand? I guess the Navy is really scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to recruits. And, BTW, the US gets its oil from all over the world not just the middle east. Keep tryin'. You guys should really look at the news more often.


----------



## topspin

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> if he went to college, he must be something like a programmer that keeps his head down 24/7 or like cornNarc a history major that slacked through.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if one day someone is not at his post and Mexicans come flooding into your neighborhood? They breed like rats. You'll never get rid of them. You'll have to learn Spanish just to swear at them.
Click to expand...


 I'm not poor like you


----------



## Bullfighter

topspin said:


> [
> I'm not poor like you



Doesn't matter. There will be no escaping them.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Ya know......I'm wondering how long a mod is gonna let this little racist asshole known as bullshitter keep going?


----------



## Dick Tuck

ABikerSailor said:


> Ya know......I'm wondering how long a mod is gonna let this little racist asshole known as bullshitter keep going?



A long time, I hope.  He says what many right wingers are too chicken shit to say.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Dick Tuck said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know......I'm wondering how long a mod is gonna let this little racist asshole known as bullshitter keep going?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A long time, I hope.  He says what many right wingers are too chicken shit to say.
Click to expand...


what?....that ALL Mexicans are what this lowlife says they are?....you backing that Dick?


----------



## ABikerSailor

You know........even the newest illegal that sneaked across the border last night contributes more to this nation than ANYTHING bullshitter ever will.

At least they're willing to work with others, bullshitter ain't.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> Ya know......I'm wondering how long a mod is gonna let this little racist asshole known as bullshitter keep going?



Didn't the Village People have a sailor in their group?

Y-M-C-A !


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> what?....that ALL Mexicans are what this lowlife says they are?....you backing that Dick?



Why do you need the approval of others? Dr Who is putting the words in your mouth.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> You know........even the newest illegal that sneaked across the border last night contributes more to this nation than ANYTHING bullshitter ever will.
> 
> At least they're willing to work with others, bullshitter ain't.



And you are the guy who serves his country that will help that illegal sneak in.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Harry Dresden said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know......I'm wondering how long a mod is gonna let this little racist asshole known as bullshitter keep going?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A long time, I hope.  He says what many right wingers are too chicken shit to say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> what?....that ALL Mexicans are what this lowlife says they are?....you backing that Dick?
Click to expand...


Yeah, I believe that a larger group than this idiot believe this, but are too punk to speak their ignorant, mouth breathing minds.


----------



## Dick Tuck

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know......I'm wondering how long a mod is gonna let this little racist asshole known as bullshitter keep going?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't the Village People have a sailor in their group?
> 
> Y-M-C-A !
Click to expand...


You sound like you're into gay, anonymous trysts.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullfighter said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know........even the newest illegal that sneaked across the border last night contributes more to this nation than ANYTHING bullshitter ever will.
> 
> At least they're willing to work with others, bullshitter ain't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you are the guy who serves his country that will help that illegal sneak in.
Click to expand...


I'm not border patrol, I'm military.

You know.......the people who are fighting the terrorists that did 9/11?  Or were you too busy hiding from Hispanics to notice the worst attack on this country EVER?

But then again..........cowards never leave their houses.  No wonder you have such a bad attitude towards military, you WANTED to join, but were too scared to leave the basement of your childhood home.

Actually..........glad you DIDN'T enlist, I don't want yellow striped assholes like you screwing up my military.


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> what?....that ALL Mexicans are what this lowlife says they are?....you backing that Dick?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need the approval of others? Dr Who is putting the words in your mouth.
Click to expand...


i aint askin his approval dipshit.....i can give fuck if he is as stupid as you.....but i want him to say what he is talkin about.....is he another useless bigot like you or not.....if he is i will treat him like i treat you.....if not, what is he sayin?....simple enough for you Gordo?....


----------



## Harry Dresden

Dick Tuck said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> A long time, I hope.  He says what many right wingers are too chicken shit to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what?....that ALL Mexicans are what this lowlife says they are?....you backing that Dick?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I believe that a larger group than this idiot believe this, but are too punk to speak their ignorant, mouth breathing minds.
Click to expand...


ok fair enough....im sure there are thousands of Bullfuckers out there......but this guy will say his shit here.....in his Neighborhood im sure he doesnt say shit......which i guess qualifies him as a punk...


----------



## Bullfighter

Dick Tuck said:


> [
> You sound like you're into gay, anonymous trysts.



Got tired of sending me messages with your reps?


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> [I'm not border patrol, I'm military.
> 
> You know.......the people who are fighting the terrorists that did 9/11?  Or were you too busy hiding from Hispanics to notice the worst attack on this country EVER?
> 
> But then again..........cowards never leave their houses.  No wonder you have such a bad attitude towards military, you WANTED to join, but were too scared to leave the basement of your childhood home.
> 
> Actually..........glad you DIDN'T enlist, I don't want yellow striped assholes like you screwing up my military.



How many of ANY enemy did you fight from your "Love Boat". Give me a break. Go back to the shower. Your buddies are waiting your you to "drop the soap".


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> ok fair enough....im sure there are thousands of Bullfuckers out there......but this guy will say his shit here.....in his Neighborhood im sure he doesnt say shit......which i guess qualifies him as a punk...



Is this your gang, Dr Who? A guy who plays with dolls, a sailor who serves his country on his hands and knees, and a real DICK!


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> i aint askin his approval dipshit.....i can give fuck if he is as stupid as you.....but i want him to say what he is talkin about.....is he another useless bigot like you or not.....if he is i will treat him like i treat you.....if not, what is he sayin?....simple enough for you Gordo?....



Tough talk for a guy with a dolly!


----------



## Harry Dresden

Bullfighter said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> ok fair enough....im sure there are thousands of Bullfuckers out there......but this guy will say his shit here.....in his Neighborhood im sure he doesnt say shit......which i guess qualifies him as a punk...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this your gang, Dr Who? A guy who plays with dolls, a sailor who serves his country on his hands and knees, and a real DICK!
Click to expand...


....your a piece of shit.....i bet you keep your yap shut when a Mexican walks by you....dont ya?.....i bet you piss your pants when they approach you right?....best part of you rolled down your moms leg......fucking lowlife.....no wonder you have no smarts....


----------



## Bullfighter

Harry Dresden said:


> [
> ....your a piece of shit.....i bet you keep your yap shut when a Mexican walks by you....dont ya?.....i bet you piss your pants when they approach you right?....best part of you rolled down your moms leg......fucking lowlife.....no wonder you have no smarts....



Is that you or Dr Who talking? I really can't tell. But did Dr Who encounter Mexicans when he traveled to other planets? What would he think of that lowlife species that needs to destroy American neighborhoods with their stupidity, stealing of poor Americans funds, and bad food?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Bullshitter is trying to keep this lame ass thread alive by insulting people with really cheesy childish insults.

He should really give it up.


----------



## Bullfighter

ABikerSailor said:


> Bullshitter is trying to keep this lame ass thread alive by insulting people with really cheesy childish insults.
> 
> He should really give it up.


 
But you keep coming back to get you ass reamed. Now I know you were in the gay-vy!


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is good news because it shows less reliance on harder drugs
> 
> Another example of why marajuana use should be legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give us the names of people who smoke pot yet never took any other drug? They don't exist.
Click to expand...

I'm one.  My late wife was another.  I'm quite certain none of my three girls ever used any other drug than marijuana.  And I've known many others who could say the same.

I'd be interested in knowing your background.


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske told CBS Radio News, young people are being exposed to "mixed messages" about marijuana including the idea that it is a medicine.


Gil Kerlikowske is nothing but a shill who is paid to parrot Reefer Madness propaganda.  Unfortunately a significant percentage of the public is ignorant enough to believe this nonsense in spite of all the available evidence to the contrary.   



> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana.


Obama is lucky the right-wing won't dare challenge him on this issue because there is no way he could discuss the issue on any level without revealing himself to be a two-bit hypocritical phony.  The Romney camp could sink him by challenging him on this issue alone -- but they can't because they are no less hypocritical and fraudulent.  Both sides are in the pockets of the interests that benefit from marijuana prohibition.


----------



## MikeK

Bullfighter said:


> The president's drug adviser said it is a "false argument" to say marijuana legalization would reduce cartel violence in Mexico. Kerlikowske, a former police chief and undercover narcotics detective, noted, "Taking one small part of the (cartel) enterprise, marijuana away from them isn't going to change them."


Actually marijuana is the largest part of the cross-border drug trade because infinitely more Americans use marijuana than all other drugs combined.  



> The administration is seeking a 13 percent increase in funding for the federal drug abuse prevention effort.


And therein lies the tale.  The government has already wasted hundreds of billions of dollars on the phony drug war since 1982 and drugs have never been more available.  

The War On Drugs is nothing but federal racketeering.  That is indisputably obvious.


----------



## eots

Bullfighter said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And by the time you tax the hell out of it like cigarettes, it will cost more to light up than shoot heroin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Heroin is illegal ..making it expensive so your analogy  is completely flawed
> the reality is if you taxed it like cigarettes,it would cost the same to_" light up "_...as it does to smoke cigarettes ,as the product and its production cost are very similar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then, drug cartels will increase the prices of their supply because the US just increased the value of the product.
> 
> Boy, that was real smart!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Drug cartels ?...I can grow enough weed to last all year with a few good plants..like growing some tomatoes...it grows like a weed...there would be no drug cartels if it was legal,there are plenty of good american farmers that would be happy to grow you all the weed you could ever want
Click to expand...


----------



## Gadawg73

Emergency room drug overdoeses are 15 to 1 prescription drug related.
I am sure the twisty is to blame for that also.
Twisty has more medicinal uses than any pharmeceutical out there.


----------



## Moonglow

Bullfighter said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is good news because it shows less reliance on harder drugs
> 
> Another example of why marajuana use should be legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give us the names of people who smoke pot yet never took any other drug? They don't exist.
Click to expand...


My mother


----------



## Moonglow

Alcohol is still Americas number one killer by a drug.


----------



## Gadawg73

I go to Jamaica yearly to RunAway Bay.
Jamaicans smoe the twisty regularly, most do not drink and they do no other drugs.
Yah Sticky is a friend of mine there as he has a reggae band that plays at the resorts.
Yah is mid 60s and looks 50. Smokes an ounce every 2 weeks.
Only dumb asses believe weed is a "gateway" drug. PRESCRIPTION PILLS are the problem.


----------



## Katzndogz

If you think that Jamaica is an economic model for the US, then yes, it would make sense to promote marijuana use in the United States.


----------



## Gadawg73

Moonglow said:


> Alcohol is still Americas number one killer by a drug.



Tobacco.


----------



## Gadawg73

Katzndogz said:


> If you think that Jamaica is an economic model for the US, then yes, it would make sense to promote marijuana use in the United States.



Where did the economic argument enter into this as far as addiction and leading to other drugs?
Plenty of poor countries out there that do NO drugs.


----------



## Katzndogz

Tobacco is off the list.  It's now eggs.


----------



## JWBooth

And we all know that our government never lies to us.


----------



## Douger

topspin said:


> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.


Pot dealers can't get away with having lobbyists.
Once it becomes legal and they can, your masters will add it to your drinking water.


----------



## Katzndogz

That's why Los Angeles closed down all the disipensaries.  To much money collected in taxes and way less crime.


----------



## MikeK

Katzndogz said:


> That's why Los Angeles closed down all the disipensaries.  To much money collected in taxes and way less crime.


The police and prison guard unions are affected by the reduction in marijuana arrests, the bottom lines of the prison construction, liquor, and pharamaceutical industries are hit hard by readily available marijuana.  And Obama evidently is responsive to these influences.


----------



## Katzndogz

It had nothing to do with a citizen seige on City Hall until the City Council withdrew the business licenses.  None at all.

LA has had 18 years of legalized marijuana and changed their minds.

You don't really understand the law or the decision to pull those licenses.  It has nothing to do with marijuana arrests.   Marijuana is still legal under state law.  No one is going to be arrested for having pot and they haven't been arrested for 18 years.   It is just illegal to sell it.  They can't sell without a business license, and there is a prohibition on business licenses.

The change in the law is that anyone with a prescription can grow up to three plants in a collective of up to three persons.   They cannot sell the pot, barter it, or trade it for anything but other kinds of pot,  but they can give it away.   Prescriptions can only be written by legitimate doctors who carry malpractice insurance and are in good standing with the California Board of Medical Examiners.   This puts an end to "clinic" doctors.

The cartels had taken over the legal clinics and started attacking competitors.   They paid city officials (Cudahy is full of them) to get permits and licensing.   LA finally had enough.


----------



## MikeK

topspin said:


> growing your own is the way, the government sprays mexican weed with chemicals.
> Nice way to treat your teenagers republitools.


It is a little-known fact that back in the seventies the DEA routinely sprayed marijuana crops with a toxic herbicide and then reported _analyses_ of "seized samples" that showed marijuana to have "extremely toxic properties."


----------



## MikeK

ConHog said:


> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.


And SOME cops are sexual degenerates who impose their authority on women offenders, including traffic offenders, to extort sexual favors.  Would you deny that?  

Now let's talk about the percentage of such cops -- and the percentage of those individual _addictive personalities_ who become "hooked" on marijuana and graduate to other drugs.  Don't you think citing extreme exceptions to a given rule is a rather desperate way to make an argument?  



> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.


If you're talking about someone sedated on marijuana, or anything else, attacking a narc, that is perfectly understandable.  Narcs (and vice cops) are the scumbags of law enforcement and they deserve to be attacked.


----------



## MikeK

Dick Tuck said:


> ConHog said:
> 
> 
> 
> some ignorant folks in this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue.
> 
> Pot IS addictive and it is a gateway drug, for SOME.
> 
> Oh, to answer the LEO question. I know first hand of pot heads attacking LEO, for a variety of reasons. No, it isn't like meth , which just makes a person lose their minds, but a pothead will act aggressively just like any other criminal if they think they are about to be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most hardcore drug addicts start with milk.  It's forced upon them in their infancy.  I blame milk.
> 
> "Gateway drug" is a bullshit myth.  To make the claim, one must show cause-effect.  That's something that's never been done.  I know too many people, who in their old age, who are still smoking an occasional doobie, and have never "graduated" to harder, addictive drugs.
Click to expand...

I used marijuana regularly throughout the sixties and seventies.  So did my late wife (a clinical psychologist).  Neither of us ever even sampled any other recreational substance.  I don't even use beverage alcohol and never did.  

Also, my wife and I both stopped using marijuana abruptly in 1982 when Ronald Reagan and his addicted little ditzy wife commenced the madness.  And while we missed the pleasure of the marijuana effect we experienced no craving whatsoever.  So much for the addictive theory.


----------



## Gadawg73

Hemp was a large commodity in Colonial days.


----------



## Gadawg73

Katzndogz said:


> It had nothing to do with a citizen seige on City Hall until the City Council withdrew the business licenses.  None at all.
> 
> LA has had 18 years of legalized marijuana and changed their minds.
> 
> You don't really understand the law or the decision to pull those licenses.  It has nothing to do with marijuana arrests.   Marijuana is still legal under state law.  No one is going to be arrested for having pot and they haven't been arrested for 18 years.   It is just illegal to sell it.  They can't sell without a business license, and there is a prohibition on business licenses.
> 
> The change in the law is that anyone with a prescription can grow up to three plants in a collective of up to three persons.   They cannot sell the pot, barter it, or trade it for anything but other kinds of pot,  but they can give it away.   Prescriptions can only be written by legitimate doctors who carry malpractice insurance and are in good standing with the California Board of Medical Examiners.   This puts an end to "clinic" doctors.
> 
> The cartels had taken over the legal clinics and started attacking competitors.   They paid city officials (Cudahy is full of them) to get permits and licensing.   LA finally had enough.



Pressure from the FEDS and DEA caused all that.
Without DEA and FED pressure and threats of $$$ being withheld twisty would be legal in all states.
Absurd it is illegal now. Ask any street beat cop and he will tell you.
Twisty is NO problem.
And I do not smoke it.


----------



## Katzndogz

Gadawg73 said:


> Hemp was a large commodity in Colonial days.



Not the same thing.   Plant cousins, but there is no THC in industrial hemp.  Not even then.


----------



## Katzndogz

Gadawg73 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It had nothing to do with a citizen seige on City Hall until the City Council withdrew the business licenses.  None at all.
> 
> LA has had 18 years of legalized marijuana and changed their minds.
> 
> You don't really understand the law or the decision to pull those licenses.  It has nothing to do with marijuana arrests.   Marijuana is still legal under state law.  No one is going to be arrested for having pot and they haven't been arrested for 18 years.   It is just illegal to sell it.  They can't sell without a business license, and there is a prohibition on business licenses.
> 
> The change in the law is that anyone with a prescription can grow up to three plants in a collective of up to three persons.   They cannot sell the pot, barter it, or trade it for anything but other kinds of pot,  but they can give it away.   Prescriptions can only be written by legitimate doctors who carry malpractice insurance and are in good standing with the California Board of Medical Examiners.   This puts an end to "clinic" doctors.
> 
> The cartels had taken over the legal clinics and started attacking competitors.   They paid city officials (Cudahy is full of them) to get permits and licensing.   LA finally had enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pressure from the FEDS and DEA caused all that.
> Without DEA and FED pressure and threats of $$$ being withheld twisty would be legal in all states.
> Absurd it is illegal now. Ask any street beat cop and he will tell you.
> Twisty is NO problem.
> And I do not smoke it.
Click to expand...


I've talked to a lot of beat cops, and they all say the same thing.   The penalties should be increased.


----------



## Katzndogz

I had a conversation with an attorney for the UN about this.  He has been all over the world including countries that have legalized drugs and knows just how well it works or doesn't work.

Drugs are not the problem.  No matter what kind, drugs are not a problem.  The problem is the number of people who cannot get through the day without the escape of getting high.  The more drugs are legal, the more people will take advantage of escaping life by getting high.   Even if the number of people getting high increases only slightly, the level of impairment will grow as the people move more wholly into drugs.   People who cannot function will do anything to get high, they will sniff glue, fermented sewage, hang themselves, and take any kind of pill without even knowing what it is.    The working public will be required to provide more and more support for those who are less and less able to care for themselves.    Drugs cannot be eliminated.  It's the users who must be eliminated.


----------



## MikeK

Nate said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be legal, the hard core religious right will just need to be pulled into the 21st century kicking and screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you topspin, it will eventually be legal again... That said, until then it is still ILLEGAL and I will show little pity for those ignorant enough to get caught smoking/with it.
Click to expand...

Which places you in the _part of the problem_ category rather than being _part of the solution._  Submission to wrongful oppression is the best way to prolong it.  Active (often painful) resistance is the way to effect change.  Ignorance is not understanding that.


----------



## Katzndogz

Everyone should be required to smoke pot as part of the solution.


----------



## Katzndogz

MikeK said:


> Nate said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be legal, the hard core religious right will just need to be pulled into the 21st century kicking and screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you topspin, it will eventually be legal again... That said, until then it is still ILLEGAL and I will show little pity for those ignorant enough to get caught smoking/with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which places you in the _part of the problem_ category rather than being _part of the solution._  Submission to wrongful oppression is the best way to prolong it.  Active (often painful) resistance is the way to effect change.  Ignorance is not understanding that.
Click to expand...


Pot smokers are wrongful oppressors.  Why should I submit to them?


----------



## eots

Katzndogz said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hemp was a large commodity in Colonial days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the same thing.   Plant cousins, but there is no THC in industrial hemp.  Not even then.
Click to expand...


total bullshit....


----------



## eots

Im smoking some early girl I grew right now and its soooo good...it buds in early august in late oct I will harvest a crop of hash plants and that will supply me until next year..I used to grow more but now I  just grow a few pounds a year for personal


----------



## eots

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkAizIDtt8M]Early Girl Marijuana Cannabis Seeds - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Katzndogz

eots said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hemp was a large commodity in Colonial days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the same thing.   Plant cousins, but there is no THC in industrial hemp.  Not even then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> total bullshit....
Click to expand...


How about some proof.  

Differences Between Industrial Hemp and Marijuana - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com


----------



## eots

> How about some proof.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ek2Sf4bUfY&playnext=1&list=PL1AB2F27C12C27513&feature=results_video]History of Weed Part 1 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## eots

> How about some proof.



*from your link..*."Hemp also has little potential to produce high-content THC *when pollinated*. As long as industrial hemp plants are pollinated "

_the same is true with marijuana for smoking use..you want to remove the males so they wont pollinate as it will reduce the potency of the weed if it goes to seed_


----------



## koshergrl

Why does everybody always pick on pot and potheads?

Hold marijuana harmless! It is good for you and makes you smarter! It actually PREVENTS addiction to other, *bad* drugs _including alcohol and heroin._ No, really. If you make a tea out of it and drink it every day at sunset, you will live to 150 years and not look a day over 16.


----------



## eots

koshergrl said:


> Why does everybody always pick on pot and potheads?
> 
> Hold marijuana harmless! It is good for you and makes you smarter! It actually PREVENTS addiction to other, *bad* drugs _including alcohol and heroin._ No, really. If you make a tea out of it and drink it every day at sunset, you will live to 150 years and not look a day over 16.



making tea out of it would be useless as thc is not water soluble it would have no effect it can however be extracted with oils or solvents so the correct procedure would be to make it into a butter and spread it on your toast with a cup of green tea

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUDyVzV_n-Q]HOW TO MAKE CANNABUTTER~Medical Marijuana Butter RECIPE~Ease Your Chronic Pain! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## koshergrl

Wow if it's half as tasty as it looks...

urp.


----------



## MikeK

Dick Tuck said:


> Lonestar_logic said:
> 
> 
> 
> [*]Marijuana is much stronger now than it was decades ago. According to data from the Potency Monitoring Project at the University of Mississippi, the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) content of commercial-grade marijuana rose from an average of 3.71 percent in 1985 to an average of 5.57 percent in 1998. The average THC content of U.S. produced sinsemilla increased from 3.2 percent in 1977 to 12.8 percent in 1997.7
> [/LIST]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's less than twice as potent, why does it cost more than 10 times as much?  What a rip off.  No wonder those folks I know who still partake roll those matchstick doobs.
Click to expand...

As if the potency wonks at U/Ms were absolutely certain of all "average" potencies grown here, in Mexico, and in the Middle East.  But regardless of the accuracy of their numbers, what they either fail to consider or obediently exclude from their report is the fact that potency levels of marijuana are absolutely irrelevant to the question of potential harm for the following reason.

Consider the difference in potency (proof) ratings of table wine, brandy, beer, bourbon, and tequila.  One ounce of tequila will produce an intoxicating effect approximately equal to three cans of beer or  two pints of Merlot.  Likewise, one bite of a pot brownie (or two hits on a joint) made with hydroponically grown indica sinsemilla will produce approximately the same effect as eating a whole brownie (or smoking a whole joint) made with low-grade ("ditchweed") street-corner marijuana.  

What this means is it's not a good idea to drink two pints of tequila or to eat a whole brownie made with indica weed or smoke a whole joint or bowlful of it.  And therein lies one very good reason to legalize marijuana.  Because if it were legal and sold by licensed dealers, like booze is, the buyer would know exactly what he/she is buying and how much to use to produce the desired effect.  That advantage did not exist during alcohol prohibition, which accounts for a lot of illness and death, and the same thing exists under marijuana prohbition.  

So the U/Ms folks should add that critical footnote to their propaganda reports and stop trying to scare the ignorant mass.  And those who might be receptive to such propaganda should understand that the University of Mississippi receives very attractive government grants to conduct such studies.


----------



## MikeK

rikules said:


> "Can you argue the fact that pot is addictive for some? "
> 
> I often wonder if this isn't  a case of "addictive personalities!"?
> 
> SOME people are easily addicted to things....
> 
> if it isn't pot then it's alcohol
> or candy
> or sex
> 
> or message boards


You are quite correct and your opinion is supported by Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Ph.D., Professor of Psychiatric Medicine, Harvard Medical School, in his excellent book, _Marijuana, The Forbidden Medicine._  (Available from Amazon.)  

But in spite of such readily available evidence it is surprising how many nitwits there are who will adhere to the easily debunked Reefer Madness propaganda.


----------



## MikeK

koshergrl said:


> Wow if it's half as tasty as it looks...
> 
> urp.


It's not eaten as you see it.  It's mixed with such foods as brownie or carrot cake (my favorite) mix.  And I'm sure you would really enjoy the finished product.  (If you haven't already.)


----------



## ItsjustmeIthink

Bullfighter said:


> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
> (Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans.
> 
> The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.
> 
> Authorities are especially concerned about use of illicit drugs by young people. The survey by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found 21.2 percent of young adults experimented with illegal drugs in 2009. The report says the trend "was also driven in large part by the use of marijuana."
> 
> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske told CBS Radio News, young people are being exposed to "mixed messages" about marijuana including the idea that it is a medicine.
> 
> The "drug czar" said marijuana "may have properties that have medicinal values that should be tested" but he insisted it is not medicine.
> 
> Kerlikowske views marijuana as "an entry drug." The survey found that for the first time since 2002, less than half of young people believe using marijuana is harmful.
> 
> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana.
> 
> CBSNews.com Special Report: Marijuana Nation
> Coincidentally, the survey is being released as California voters consider a November ballot issue on legalizing pot.
> 
> Proponents believe the move would ease crowded court dockets and weaken Mexican drug cartels. Kerlikowske and many veteran former federal drug enforcement officials reject those ideas.
> 
> The president's drug adviser said it is a "false argument" to say marijuana legalization would reduce cartel violence in Mexico. Kerlikowske, a former police chief and undercover narcotics detective, noted, "Taking one small part of the (cartel) enterprise, marijuana away from them isn't going to change them."
> 
> He concedes the drug gangs south of the border can not be totally defeated but he believes "their impact and their violence can be reduced."
> 
> While the report emphasizes the detrimental effects of marijuana, Kerlikowske says abuse of prescription drugs rises to the top of his concerns because, "young people don't perceive them as dangerous or addictive."
> 
> He said the availability of prescription medications in home medicine cabinets often makes them widely available and attractive to young people. The non-medical use of prescription drugs notched up slightly to nearly three percent of the population.
> 
> The annual survey offered some encouraging news. It showed decreasing levels of tobacco use to a new low level of 23.3 percent. But the report warned, "The pace of improvement is stagnating."
> 
> The administration's drug control strategy emphasizes prevention and treatment along with law enforcement. Kerlikowske told CBS News, "We have had a focus of a criminal justice lens on drug abuse for quite a while." He added, "It should be a blend" that includes prevention and education.
> 
> The administration is seeking a 13 percent increase in funding for the federal drug abuse prevention effort.
> 
> The drug control policy chief rejects the term, "War on Drugs."
> 
> He said, "If we approach it with the same level of complexity that we approach things like cancer, I think we're better off than telling the American public, here's a bumper sticker to solve your problem."
> 
> The survey covers the transition year as President Obama took office. Next year's report will be the first true test of any initial results from the administration's approach to a drug abuse problem that has been a national challenge for decades.
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.



More, great evidence on how effective America's "war on drugs" is.

10s of millions of taxpayer's dollars spent and drug use is...rising? HA, we got a winner here.



> The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.[/


Care to explain what's "simple" about kicking Mexicans out of Mexico? (That, and many other south American countries are where the drugs actually come from)

_______________________________________________


eots said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does everybody always pick on pot and potheads?
> 
> Hold marijuana harmless! It is good for you and makes you smarter! It actually PREVENTS addiction to other, *bad* drugs _including alcohol and heroin._ No, really. If you make a tea out of it and drink it every day at sunset, you will live to 150 years and not look a day over 16.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> making tea out of it would be useless as thc is not water soluble it would have no effect it can however be extracted with oils or solvents so the correct procedure would be to make it into a butter and spread it on your toast with a cup of green tea
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUDyVzV_n-Q]HOW TO MAKE CANNABUTTER~Medical Marijuana Butter RECIPE~Ease Your Chronic Pain! - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


High proof (190+) Alcohol can be used to extract THC, or so i've heard.


----------



## eots

ItsjustmeIthink said:


> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
> (Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans.
> 
> The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.
> 
> Authorities are especially concerned about use of illicit drugs by young people. The survey by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found 21.2 percent of young adults experimented with illegal drugs in 2009. The report says the trend "was also driven in large part by the use of marijuana."
> 
> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske told CBS Radio News, young people are being exposed to "mixed messages" about marijuana including the idea that it is a medicine.
> 
> The "drug czar" said marijuana "may have properties that have medicinal values that should be tested" but he insisted it is not medicine.
> 
> Kerlikowske views marijuana as "an entry drug." The survey found that for the first time since 2002, less than half of young people believe using marijuana is harmful.
> 
> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana.
> 
> CBSNews.com Special Report: Marijuana Nation
> Coincidentally, the survey is being released as California voters consider a November ballot issue on legalizing pot.
> 
> Proponents believe the move would ease crowded court dockets and weaken Mexican drug cartels. Kerlikowske and many veteran former federal drug enforcement officials reject those ideas.
> 
> The president's drug adviser said it is a "false argument" to say marijuana legalization would reduce cartel violence in Mexico. Kerlikowske, a former police chief and undercover narcotics detective, noted, "Taking one small part of the (cartel) enterprise, marijuana away from them isn't going to change them."
> 
> He concedes the drug gangs south of the border can not be totally defeated but he believes "their impact and their violence can be reduced."
> 
> While the report emphasizes the detrimental effects of marijuana, Kerlikowske says abuse of prescription drugs rises to the top of his concerns because, "young people don't perceive them as dangerous or addictive."
> 
> He said the availability of prescription medications in home medicine cabinets often makes them widely available and attractive to young people. The non-medical use of prescription drugs notched up slightly to nearly three percent of the population.
> 
> The annual survey offered some encouraging news. It showed decreasing levels of tobacco use to a new low level of 23.3 percent. But the report warned, "The pace of improvement is stagnating."
> 
> The administration's drug control strategy emphasizes prevention and treatment along with law enforcement. Kerlikowske told CBS News, "We have had a focus of a criminal justice lens on drug abuse for quite a while." He added, "It should be a blend" that includes prevention and education.
> 
> The administration is seeking a 13 percent increase in funding for the federal drug abuse prevention effort.
> 
> The drug control policy chief rejects the term, "War on Drugs."
> 
> He said, "If we approach it with the same level of complexity that we approach things like cancer, I think we're better off than telling the American public, here's a bumper sticker to solve your problem."
> 
> The survey covers the transition year as President Obama took office. Next year's report will be the first true test of any initial results from the administration's approach to a drug abuse problem that has been a national challenge for decades.
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More, great evidence on how effective America's "war on drugs" is.
> 
> 10s of millions of taxpayer's dollars spent and drug use is...rising? HA, we got a winner here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.[/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Care to explain what's "simple" about kicking Mexicans out of Mexico? (That, and many other south American countries are where the drugs actually come from)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why does everybody always pick on pot and potheads?
> 
> Hold marijuana harmless! It is good for you and makes you smarter! It actually PREVENTS addiction to other, *bad* drugs _including alcohol and heroin._ No, really. If you make a tea out of it and drink it every day at sunset, you will live to 150 years and not look a day over 16.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> making tea out of it would be useless as thc is not water soluble it would have no effect it can however be extracted with oils or solvents so the correct procedure would be to make it into a butter and spread it on your toast with a cup of green tea
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUDyVzV_n-Q]HOW TO MAKE CANNABUTTER~Medical Marijuana Butter RECIPE~Ease Your Chronic Pain! - YouTube[/ame]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> High proof (190+) Alcohol can be used to extract THC, or so i've heard.
Click to expand...


Indeed...then the is Alcohol  slowly heated and evaporated if it is done properly you get a very potent oil extract called honey oil that is clear like water and taste like honey


----------



## dblack

dilloduck said:


> topspin said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the Ghestapo right still supports the retarded war on pot. It's less dangerous than beer and will cost the right millions of votes in the next few election cycles. But republicans aren't exactly know for being smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obama changed parties ?
Click to expand...


I don't think so. He's still a Republocrat, right?


----------



## Moonglow

eots said:


> ItsjustmeIthink said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullfighter said:
> 
> 
> 
> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske
> (Credit: JEWEL SAMAD/AFP/Getty Images) A new government report blames increased marijuana use for an uptick in the overall use of illicit drugs among Americans.
> 
> The annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows the rate of illicit drug use rose from eight percent in 2008 to 8.7 percent in 2009. The survey also found increases in the use of ecstasy and methamphetamines.
> 
> Authorities are especially concerned about use of illicit drugs by young people. The survey by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration found 21.2 percent of young adults experimented with illegal drugs in 2009. The report says the trend "was also driven in large part by the use of marijuana."
> 
> National Drug Control Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske told CBS Radio News, young people are being exposed to "mixed messages" about marijuana including the idea that it is a medicine.
> 
> The "drug czar" said marijuana "may have properties that have medicinal values that should be tested" but he insisted it is not medicine.
> 
> Kerlikowske views marijuana as "an entry drug." The survey found that for the first time since 2002, less than half of young people believe using marijuana is harmful.
> 
> The Obama administration remains strongly opposed to legalization of marijuana.
> 
> CBSNews.com Special Report: Marijuana Nation
> Coincidentally, the survey is being released as California voters consider a November ballot issue on legalizing pot.
> 
> Proponents believe the move would ease crowded court dockets and weaken Mexican drug cartels. Kerlikowske and many veteran former federal drug enforcement officials reject those ideas.
> 
> The president's drug adviser said it is a "false argument" to say marijuana legalization would reduce cartel violence in Mexico. Kerlikowske, a former police chief and undercover narcotics detective, noted, "Taking one small part of the (cartel) enterprise, marijuana away from them isn't going to change them."
> 
> He concedes the drug gangs south of the border can not be totally defeated but he believes "their impact and their violence can be reduced."
> 
> While the report emphasizes the detrimental effects of marijuana, Kerlikowske says abuse of prescription drugs rises to the top of his concerns because, "young people don't perceive them as dangerous or addictive."
> 
> He said the availability of prescription medications in home medicine cabinets often makes them widely available and attractive to young people. The non-medical use of prescription drugs notched up slightly to nearly three percent of the population.
> 
> The annual survey offered some encouraging news. It showed decreasing levels of tobacco use to a new low level of 23.3 percent. But the report warned, "The pace of improvement is stagnating."
> 
> The administration's drug control strategy emphasizes prevention and treatment along with law enforcement. Kerlikowske told CBS News, "We have had a focus of a criminal justice lens on drug abuse for quite a while." He added, "It should be a blend" that includes prevention and education.
> 
> The administration is seeking a 13 percent increase in funding for the federal drug abuse prevention effort.
> 
> The drug control policy chief rejects the term, "War on Drugs."
> 
> He said, "If we approach it with the same level of complexity that we approach things like cancer, I think we're better off than telling the American public, here's a bumper sticker to solve your problem."
> 
> The survey covers the transition year as President Obama took office. Next year's report will be the first true test of any initial results from the administration's approach to a drug abuse problem that has been a national challenge for decades.
> 
> Marijuana to Blame for Increased Drug Use in 2009, Government Report Says - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The only way to stop the flow of illegal drugs into the US is to remove the franchisers that are here. Boot out the Mexicans and cut off the flow of illegal drugs. Simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More, great evidence on how effective America's "war on drugs" is.
> 
> 10s of millions of taxpayer's dollars spent and drug use is...rising? HA, we got a winner here.
> 
> 
> Care to explain what's "simple" about kicking Mexicans out of Mexico? (That, and many other south American countries are where the drugs actually come from)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> making tea out of it would be useless as thc is not water soluble it would have no effect it can however be extracted with oils or solvents so the correct procedure would be to make it into a butter and spread it on your toast with a cup of green tea
> 
> HOW TO MAKE CANNABUTTER~Medical Marijuana Butter RECIPE~Ease Your Chronic Pain! - YouTube
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> High proof (190+) Alcohol can be used to extract THC, or so i've heard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Indeed...then the is Alcohol  slowly heated and evaporated if it is done properly you get a very potent oil extract called honey oil that is clear like water and taste like honey
Click to expand...


Yea, if you got that much spare weed.


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## ItsjustmeIthink

Of all the threads on USMB, I think this one has been the most informative.


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## MikeK

ConHog said:


> Oh for sure lots of things are addictive, but addiction alone isn't reason enough to outlaw something, only if it has other dangerous properties should that be considered. I am merely stating that those who say that pot absolutely isn't addictive are lying.


The clinical definition of (drug) _addiction_ is a compelling dependency on a chemical the repetitive use of which has imparted an actual alteration to a component of one's neurochemistry.  There is nothing in the chemistry of marijuana (TetraHydroCannabinol) which imparts this dependency.  

There are certain substances which if used repetitively over a long period of time can be _habit-forming_ but a habit is not an addiction in the clinical sense of the word.  Marijuana, if used consistently over time, can form a habit of approximately the same level of compulsion as caffeine or sugar.  This level of compulsion is by no means a _dependency_ and may easily be overcome by exercising moderate self-control over a relatively short period of time.  

A third category of compulsive substance craving is the _psychological addiction_ in which an individual who manifests the disorder known to behaviorists as the _addictive personality_ is disabled by the *imagined* effects of a full-blown chemical addiction.  Such individuals become psychologically addicted to everything from soft drinks to sex and are sure to become psychologically addicted to marijuana.  But this imagined compulsion is not and should not be regarded as drug addiction in the clinical sense of the word.

Bottom line:  Marijuana is not an addictive drug.


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## MikeK

Charles_Main said:


> [...]
> 
> The idea that dealers lace their pot with expensive harder drugs and then do not tell people it is in there. Is laughable. exposes your intense ignorance about the subject.


Sorry Charles.  But you're quite mistaken.  

While I haven't seen any marijuana since the early 1980s I can tell you for certain it was quite common back in the seventies for low-level street dealers to spray a pound of cheap "ditchweed," worth about $40 an ounce, with about $20 worth of liquefied heroin, and push it off on rubes as "primo" for $100 an ounce or more.  The practice is called "sugaring." 

Perhaps it was unheard of in your location but, as I said, it was not uncommon in the New York City area.


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## eots

mikek said:


> charles_main said:
> 
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> the idea that dealers lace their pot with expensive harder drugs and then do not tell people it is in there. Is laughable. Exposes your intense ignorance about the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> sorry charles.  But you're quite mistaken.
> 
> While i haven't seen any marijuana since the early 1980s i can tell you for certain it was quite common back in the seventies for low-level street dealers to spray a pound of cheap "ditchweed," worth about $40 an ounce, with about $20 worth of liquefied heroin, and push it off on rubes as "primo" for $100 an ounce or more.  The practice is called "sugaring."
> 
> perhaps it was unheard of in your location but, as i said, it was not uncommon in the new york city area.
Click to expand...


thats retarded...if you had junk in the 1980s in NY..you did mot need to trick people to buy it.. Heroin was much more under ground people with a supply of heroin could sell it as heroin easy enough


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## eots

It wasn't hard to sell ditchweed in the 80 s either


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## eots

Btw ..the term ditch weed came from the plants that still grow in ditches in some farming areas to this day..after the ww2 hemp for victory campaign was ended and they changed back to other crops wild plants continued to grow in those areas


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## eots

Wild Hemp Grows Everywhere In Nebraska [Photos]
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/08/wild_hemp_grows_everywhere_in_nebraska_photos.php


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## waltky

Uncle Ferd says, "Yea...

... an' `sides dat...

... it'll make ya go crazy...

... an' eat peoples' face off.


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## Gadawg73

War on Drugs is a complete failure. All it has done is make billions for criminal gangs and flood the countries they live in with violence and crooked politicians.
You could ban and make illegal tooth paste and college kids would be buying it and brushing their teeth 100 times a night on weekends.
Twisty is about harmless. NO where as bad for you as nicotine, sweet tea and fried chicken. 
We hand out dope like candy to kids for ADD which is far worse than twisty.
Americans are dumb asses. We have a cash crop ALREADY here and we make it illegal. 
With 100 other uses for it other than smoking.


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## MikeK

eots said:


> thats retarded...if you had junk in the 1980s in NY..you did mot need to trick people to buy it.. Heroin was much more under ground people with a supply of heroin could sell it as heroin easy enough


While I defer to your agricultural expertise on the subject of marijuana cultivation I respectfully suggest that if you ever visit New York City, especially around the Brooklyn area, and someone offers to sell you really nice bridge at a very good price -- don't buy it.


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## eots

MikeK said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats retarded...if you had junk in the 1980s in NY..you did mot need to trick people to buy it.. Heroin was much more under ground people with a supply of heroin could sell it as heroin easy enough
> 
> 
> 
> While I defer to your agricultural expertise on the subject of marijuana cultivation I respectfully suggest that if you ever visit New York City, especially around the Brooklyn area, and someone offers to sell you really nice bridge at a very good price -- don't buy it.
Click to expand...


people have  mixed cheap pcp with low grade weed..but heroin is to valued
I would need to see you post one reference from anywhere to "sugering" cheap weed with heroin to sell to the unwittng ,otherwise I am not buying it any more than that bridge you speak of


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## MikeK

eots said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats retarded...if you had junk in the 1980s in NY..you did mot need to trick people to buy it.. Heroin was much more under ground people with a supply of heroin could sell it as heroin easy enough
> 
> 
> 
> While I defer to your agricultural expertise on the subject of marijuana cultivation I respectfully suggest that if you ever visit New York City, especially around the Brooklyn area, and someone offers to sell you really nice bridge at a very good price -- don't buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> people have  mixed cheap pcp with low grade weed..but heroin is to valued
> I would need to see you post one reference from anywhere to "sugering" cheap weed with heroin to sell to the unwittng ,otherwise I am not buying it any more than that bridge you speak of
Click to expand...


High school students "found with heroin laced marijuana " (updated 01/05/2006))

Here's one.  You can find a lot more if you look.


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## MikeK

eots said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eots said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats retarded...if you had junk in the 1980s in NY..you did mot need to trick people to buy it.. Heroin was much more under ground people with a supply of heroin could sell it as heroin easy enough
> 
> 
> 
> While I defer to your agricultural expertise on the subject of marijuana cultivation I respectfully suggest that if you ever visit New York City, especially around the Brooklyn area, and someone offers to sell you really nice bridge at a very good price -- don't buy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> people have  mixed cheap pcp with low grade weed..but heroin is to valued
> I would need to see you post one reference from anywhere to "sugering" cheap weed with heroin to sell to the unwittng ,otherwise I am not buying it any more than that bridge you speak of
Click to expand...

As I recall, back in the 70s an ounce of ditchweed sold for around $25 and consisted of the scrapings from the bottom of a bale: dried leaves, seeds and twigs.  Hustlers would buy a pound for around $250, pick out most of the the twigs and seeds, spread out the remaining leaf on paper, heat a few "dimes" of heroin, pour it in a perfume atomizer, spray the leaf and let it dry.    

What they end up with is a dozen or more ounces of something they could push off on rubes and school kids as "primo" for $75 to $100 an ounce.   The rubes would smoke it, get a mild smack high on, think it was top grade weed and buy more.  

If you've never heard of that all I can tell you is if you had lived in New York back then there are a lot of things you would know that you don't know now.


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## eots

18-12-2005 13:59

False positive or accidental contamination more like?

18-12-2005 17:47
It would be an expensive tactic!!! WTF heroin laced weed.


18-12-2005 19:24
Or maybe the kids do it themselves, and are scared so they blamed it on their dealers.


18-12-2005 21:35
probly just put the herb in a bag that previously was used to hold H



Would that even work? Isn't a lighters flame too hot or something?


Many dealers lace there weed with heroin?! Damn, where the hell are all these dealers at.

20-12-2005 04:54
That dealer sounds like one kind fella


20-12-2005 07:29
Would that even work? Isn't a lighters flame too hot or something?
Good question! Yes, direct flame will destroy any drug. Smoking works because the part that is actually on fire heats the material next to it hot enough to vaporize the drug. As it burns the material that's already been largely depleted of drugs gets fed to the flame next (as the joint or cigarette burns down), providing fuel to heat up the next little bit enough to vaporize the nicotine (or THC or whatever) from THAT material.

In a way, a joint or cigarette is also a vaporizer; you breath in the smoke from the burning part because it's unavoidable, not because it actually contains much if any drug.


Anyone who has actually smoked heroin before knows that the odor/taste is nothing short of disgusting.

You're not going to smoke pot laced with heroin and NOT know.

I've certainly never come across anything like this in the past 11 years.


25-12-2005 05:53
You don't want to burn heroin, you want to vaporize it, thats why you move the foil back and forth, so it doesn't stay too hot. Fire destroys heroin, even if you use a direct flame, you still vaporize a large amount of it, while destroying a larger amount of it.

High school students "found with heroin laced marijuana " (updated 01/05/2006)


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