# Wisconsin Recall.. silence



## Lumpy 1 (Aug 12, 2011)

So what happened, 30 million spent on this recall election, Democrats/Labor Unions jumpin all kinds of ugly, the end of the Tea Party, all sorts of twisted liberal media coverage and doom for Republicans....  then silence....

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The setback that Democrats and their labor allies suffered in the battle to reclaim Wisconsin underscores the challenge they and President Obama face as both parties prepare for the 2012 election.

Tuesday's election  an attempt to recall six Republican state senators  was the first test of voter sentiment since the summer's debate over the national debt and the renewed stalling of the economy. Strategists on both sides were watching the contests as an early showdown on the economic themes likely to propel next year's campaigns.

Wisconsin recall election a test of voter sentiment - Los Angeles Times


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## elvis (Aug 12, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hUy9ePyo6Q]sound of silence - YouTube[/ame]


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## OldUSAFSniper (Aug 12, 2011)

Indeed, the Wisconsin recalls were hailed as the resurgence of the labor movement in the U.S.  The only thing that moved was how fast liberals and their media allies tried to turn attention away from the rebuff by Wisconsin voters.  I have family in Wisconsin and they ended up putting a sign on their door advising that they would vote to retain their Republican Senator.  They did this just so the union canvassers would leave them alone.  Funny thing was that the union canvassers were from Michigan, Illinois and not from Wisconsin.  I am very amused!


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## saveliberty (Aug 12, 2011)

But...but...but everybody hates the Tea Party!

Maybe, but they sure think government spends too much, has way too much debt and needs to live within their revenues.  Think anyone will start a movement like that?


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## Baruch Menachem (Aug 12, 2011)

Two more contests on Tuesday.  The fat lady is still getting her costume on.


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## Lumpy 1 (Aug 12, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Two more contests on Tuesday.  The fat lady is still getting her costume on.



Yup, as I recall both held by insecure Democrats..


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## Oddball (Aug 12, 2011)

Lumpy 1 said:


> So what happened, 30 million spent on this recall election, Democrats/Labor Unions jumpin all kinds of ugly, the end of the Tea Party, all sorts of twisted liberal media coverage and doom for Republicans....  then silence....
> 
> -------------------
> 
> ...


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## hortysir (Aug 12, 2011)

Labor unions will be dead before Justin Bieber is in rehab


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## Lumpy 1 (Aug 12, 2011)

Oddball said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > So what happened, 30 million spent on this recall election, Democrats/Labor Unions jumpin all kinds of ugly, the end of the Tea Party, all sorts of twisted liberal media coverage and doom for Republicans....  then silence....
> ...



.. thanks, my resourceful Pal...


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## Big Black Dog (Aug 12, 2011)

No real press coverage on the evening news - except for Fox.  On the major networks one station didn't even cover it, one station had almost two minutes of coverage and another had 50 seconds.  If the labor unions and Democrats had of been the winners, it would have been wall to wall coverage for days.  Guess  the Democrats and labor unions don't like it known that their asses were handed back to them.  Maybe this will shut them up.


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## MeBelle (Aug 12, 2011)

Five million per seat!
WOW!
I could think of a whole bunch of better ways to spend $30M that could actually help our Country.

Unions have deep pockets.

Are Unions a 'corporation' or 'people'?

Are Unions part of those 'rich elite' that some groups are screaming to tax??


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## Lumpy 1 (Aug 12, 2011)

MeBelle60 said:


> Five million per seat!
> WOW!
> I could think of a whole bunch of better ways to spend $30M that could actually help our Country.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure but I believe that 30 million was spent by the Dem/Union side.

15 million per Democrat .. State Senate seat....

Yup, Democrats can be trusted with the purse strings....


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## Oddball (Aug 12, 2011)

MeBelle60 said:


> Five million per seat!
> WOW!
> I could think of a whole bunch of better ways to spend $30M that could actually help our Country.
> 
> ...


Heeeeeyyyyy...Here's an idear!

With all that money, mebby they could cut a few checks to the U.S. Treasury, to help cover that deficit thingy.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Aug 12, 2011)

WOW where are the useful idiots of this board? Lumpy you make them hold their breath cause they mad.


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## Lumpy 1 (Aug 12, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> WOW where are the useful idiots of this board? Lumpy you make them hold their breath cause they mad.



The "Nanny State" is going the way of the dinosaur...

Even the Europeans are poking fun at Obama's economy now...

It takes some time to adjust, I'm guessing.


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## code1211 (Aug 12, 2011)

I've heard those in media call Wisconsin a Purple state.  Now.

The problem with that is that Wisconsin was a BLUE state for years.  That's why they're in this mess right now.  The fact that the Unions are so agravated reveals this.  They thought that Wisconsin belonged to them.

They might now be waking up to the fact that the population is waking up and noticing that the idiots who are spending the tax dollars don't have the first clue and We the People are just a tad furious about the Anal Probes we've been taking for the last 60 or so years.

If the Republicans can run a candidate who's not an idiot and the TEA party can resist the temptation to run a third party bid, this is going to be landslide.


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## Lumpy 1 (Aug 12, 2011)

code1211 said:


> I've heard those in media call Wisconsin a Purple state.  Now.
> 
> The problem with that is that Wisconsin was a BLUE state for years.  That's why they're in this mess right now.  The fact that the Unions are so agravated reveals this.  They thought that Wisconsin belonged to them.
> 
> ...



Yup.. what's the deal..?   

The Republican candidates just don't impress much.. dang it...


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## Oddball (Aug 12, 2011)

code1211 said:


> I've heard those in media call Wisconsin a Purple state.  Now.
> 
> The problem with that is that Wisconsin was a BLUE state for years.  That's why they're in this mess right now.  The fact that the Unions are so agravated reveals this.  They thought that Wisconsin belonged to them.
> 
> ...


I'm thinkin' that the wackaloons in the Madison-Milwaukee axis haven't figured out that there are a whole slew of people who live north of I-94.

With any luck, mebby we can get them to move back to Chicago.


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## Missourian (Aug 12, 2011)

It's off topic,  but I'd still like to point it out.

The use of the words "Natural Juices" on the crickets can is somewhat unsettling.


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## Full-Auto (Aug 12, 2011)

Missourian said:


> It's off topic,  but I'd still like to point it out.
> 
> The use of the words "Natural Juices" on the crickets can is somewhat unsettling.



Your attention to detail is astonishing sir.


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## Baruch Menachem (Aug 12, 2011)

If either of the Democrats loose on tuesday, the silence will be deafening.


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## elvis (Aug 12, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> If either of the Democrats loose on tuesday, the silence will be deafening.



what?


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## Dr.House (Aug 12, 2011)

HE SAID:  IF EITHER OF THE DEMOCRATS LOSE ON TUESDAY....

ahhh, nevermind...


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## DiAnna (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm not sure if this was strictly a dem/rep thing as much as it was a vote for/against public sector labor unions... which should pretty much be outlawed nationwide in favor of civil servant codes that 26 of the states already use.  Public sector unions are the major reason that so many states, counties and towns are on the verge of bankruptcy.  The salaries/benefits of public employees have been so inflated over the past decades... primarily because there was plenty of taxpayer money and since city negotiators didn't have to worry about things like profit, it was easy to give in to union threats and demands.

I used to work for a SoCal city, and I negotiated with all our city unions.  They didn't care if the city had to lay off a hundred people, the union negotiators were exempt from layoff and they wanted their perks.  

So I think a lot of democrats and independents, working Americans who saw the obscene benefit packages they were paying for, voted republican in this election.  I'm not a republican (or democrat, lol) but I would have voted against the public unions too.  I just wish my state would give me a chance to do the same thing.


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## hortysir (Aug 13, 2011)

Full-Auto said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> > It's off topic,  but I'd still like to point it out.
> ...




Guess you CAN say it's unCANny


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## The Infidel (Aug 13, 2011)

Big Black Dog said:


> No real press coverage on the evening news - except for Fox.  On the major networks one station didn't even cover it, one station had almost two minutes of coverage and another had 50 seconds.  If the labor unions and Democrats had of been the winners, it would have been wall to wall coverage for days.  Guess  the Democrats and labor unions don't like it known that their asses were handed back to them.  Maybe this will shut them up.



Amazing huh?

They had wall to wall coverage when the moonbats were crawling all over the Wi. capital like cockroaches.

This is soooooo transparent.


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## The Infidel (Aug 13, 2011)

Dr.House said:


> HE SAID:  IF EITHER OF THE DEMOCRATS LOSE ON TUESDAY....
> 
> ahhh, nevermind...



Holy crap, THATS FUNNY!


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## JoeB131 (Aug 13, 2011)

The underlying problem with unions in that many ways is that they've been victims of their own success.  

When unions came to be, there was a good reason for them. Their purpose was to make sure that workers had a safe working environment and got a fair share of the profits of an enterprise. And for the most part, they won those battles. Today in the private sector, most people don't really want unions because we think we are saavy enough to control our own careers.  (We aren't. A lot of businesses saw the Great Recession as an excuse to fire the high-paid employees they were forced to hire and replace them with hungry waifs who'd work for less, hence why the agony has been prolonged.) 

The problem with unions is that they've replaced one form of unfairness with another. In a union shop, no matter how talented you are, your way usually ends up blocked by some slug who has seniority or tenure.  

Government unions are the worst of the worst.  There is no profit to be distrubuted equally. It's just how much money you can shake out of the taxpayers for golden pension and health benefits the rest of the country doesn't enjoy.  so rightly or wrongly, a lot of working stiffs voted against the union position in Wisconsin. Even the Democrats only really see them as a huge ATM.


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## code1211 (Aug 13, 2011)

Missourian said:


> It's off topic,  but I'd still like to point it out.
> 
> The use of the words "Natural Juices" on the crickets can is somewhat unsettling.





Remember Sterling Hayden in "Dr. Strangelove"?


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## code1211 (Aug 13, 2011)

DiAnna said:


> I'm not sure if this was strictly a dem/rep thing as much as it was a vote for/against public sector labor unions... which should pretty much be outlawed nationwide in favor of civil servant codes that 26 of the states already use.  Public sector unions are the major reason that so many states, counties and towns are on the verge of bankruptcy.  The salaries/benefits of public employees have been so inflated over the past decades... primarily because there was plenty of taxpayer money and since city negotiators didn't have to worry about things like profit, it was easy to give in to union threats and demands.
> 
> I used to work for a SoCal city, and I negotiated with all our city unions.  They didn't care if the city had to lay off a hundred people, the union negotiators were exempt from layoff and they wanted their perks.
> 
> So I think a lot of democrats and independents, working Americans who saw the obscene benefit packages they were paying for, voted republican in this election.  I'm not a republican (or democrat, lol) but I would have voted against the public unions too.  I just wish my state would give me a chance to do the same thing.





You're making a distiction that has no difference.


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## FA_Q2 (Aug 13, 2011)

Outstanding.  Where are all the libs that were hailing this as the 2012 precursor and telling us that the republicans were dead and rejected.  There were a TON of threads on the so called protests on these boards and all of the left wingers here were so quick to point and shout SEE, THEY DON&#8217;T LIKE YOUR IDEAS.  

Guess the recalls were nothing more than union bullshit and those &#8216;millions&#8217;
 Of protesters really were bussed in.  Huh, go figure&#8230;


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## Rozman (Aug 13, 2011)

Lumpy 1 said:


> So what happened, 30 million spent on this recall election, Democrats/Labor Unions jumpin all kinds of ugly, the end of the Tea Party, all sorts of twisted liberal media coverage and doom for Republicans....  then silence....
> 
> -------------------
> 
> ...



Well the plan was for Ed Schultz of MSNBC to have a celebration that would last for a week as he championed the recall election.He went there many times and did his show from there.This was to be the crowning achievement of his broadcast career.The Left went nuts over the fact that they were poised on major victory thinking they would win 3 seats.

Then it happened.They only won two.And you could hear Fat Head Ed Schultz's ego deflate.But then the Left needed to save face and claim victory.So they claimed that the two wins were huge because they weren't supposed to win those two contests..

I don't know Libs...seems to me like the people have spoken in Wisconsin.Again.


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## WillowTree (Aug 13, 2011)

DiAnna said:


> I'm not sure if this was strictly a dem/rep thing as much as it was a vote for/against public sector labor unions... which should pretty much be outlawed nationwide in favor of civil servant codes that 26 of the states already use.  Public sector unions are the major reason that so many states, counties and towns are on the verge of bankruptcy.  The salaries/benefits of public employees have been so inflated over the past decades... primarily because there was plenty of taxpayer money and since city negotiators didn't have to worry about things like profit, it was easy to give in to union threats and demands.
> 
> I used to work for a SoCal city, and I negotiated with all our city unions.  They didn't care if the city had to lay off a hundred people, the union negotiators were exempt from layoff and they wanted their perks.
> 
> So I think a lot of democrats and independents, working Americans who saw the obscene benefit packages they were paying for, voted republican in this election.  I'm not a republican (or democrat, lol) but I would have voted against the public unions too.  I just wish my state would give me a chance to do the same thing.



believe me honey,, the public sector employees unions are hitched at the navel with dimocwats.


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## skookerasbil (Aug 13, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> DiAnna said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure if this was strictly a dem/rep thing as much as it was a vote for/against public sector labor unions... which should pretty much be outlawed nationwide in favor of civil servant codes that 26 of the states already use.  Public sector unions are the major reason that so many states, counties and towns are on the verge of bankruptcy.  The salaries/benefits of public employees have been so inflated over the past decades... primarily because there was plenty of taxpayer money and since city negotiators didn't have to worry about things like profit, it was easy to give in to union threats and demands.
> ...




Hey Willow.............how sweet was that this past week? Not sure about you, but I made sure I tuned into some evening MSNBC programming to watch those genius' celebrate the loss. The spin was commical...............cant miss TV!!!

Here ya go WIllow............especially for you on this fine Saturday morning...............









And WIllow............is it not a fcukking hoot around here lately watching all the lefty lose occurring in the public domain??


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## Lovebears65 (Aug 13, 2011)

Dr.House said:


> HE SAID:  IF EITHER OF THE DEMOCRATS LOSE ON TUESDAY....
> 
> ahhh, nevermind...


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## saveliberty (Aug 13, 2011)

Oh come on.  Won't at least one liberal poke their head in here and tell us we are going to see a landslide Democratic takeover in 2012?

We are the hope and going to makes changes.


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## Seawytch (Aug 13, 2011)

DiAnna said:


> Public sector unions are the major reason that so many states, counties and towns are on the verge of bankruptcy.  The salaries/benefits of public employees have been so inflated over the past decades... primarily because there was plenty of taxpayer money and since city negotiators didn't have to worry about things like profit, it was easy to give in to union threats and demands.



No, the recession and the housing bubble are the reason states are on the verge of bankruptcy. Public sector employees take *lower wages* than private sector employees in exchange for pensions and benefits. Now that the states are encountering these financial difficulties, again through no fault of it's public sector employees, those employees *promised benefits* are being threatened by Republican legislators in order to give MORE tax breaks to wealthy corporations.


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## candycorn (Aug 13, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> Oh come on.  Won't at least one liberal poke their head in here and tell us we are going to see a landslide Democratic takeover in 2012?
> 
> We are the hope and going to makes changes.



I guess I'll be the sacrificial liberal.

A few things about Wisconsin first;  fair commentators would acknowledge it took a lot of effort to get to the recall election at all much less win every seat in the election.  The results were anemic but the effort was not.  Sort of the like the  Brewers losing to the Cubs 11-10...they scored 10 runs but still lost.  Additionally, smart politicians who survived the recall will understand that it wasn't as if there was no election at all; they will trim their sails a little bit.  So it's a legislative gain even though it was an electoral loss.

As for 2012, I don't think there will be a takeover because the Democratic party needs to defend more seats than the GOP.  The GOP should take over the Senate given the sheer proportion of the seats available.  Had that been the reverse case, the Democrats should be in contention to take over the Senate given the unpopularity of both parties.

I'm comfortable saying that Obama will win in 2012 at this point.  There doesn't seem to be any serious candidates on the Republican side and the ones who are supposed front runners have fatal characteristics that will most likely calls fratricide between GOP extremists factions.


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## Seawytch (Aug 13, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> Oh come on.  Won't at least one liberal poke their head in here and tell us we are going to see a landslide Democratic takeover in 2012?
> 
> We are the hope and going to makes changes.



We'll just have to wait and see. There is certainly a lot of anger out there at the way Washington has been conducting it's business and if you look at the polls, the right is bearing the brunt of the blame. 

People are not happy with the way the Republicans keep defending the Corporations and Wall Street to the detriment of Main Street. 

Just the latest of many...

Audience blasts Big Oil tax cuts


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## code1211 (Aug 13, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> DiAnna said:
> 
> 
> > Public sector unions are the major reason that so many states, counties and towns are on the verge of bankruptcy.  The salaries/benefits of public employees have been so inflated over the past decades... primarily because there was plenty of taxpayer money and since city negotiators didn't have to worry about things like profit, it was easy to give in to union threats and demands.
> ...





And yet public sector employees wages are higher than their private sector counterparts on average.  Go figure.

Once again, the reality of the situation is different than the talking points.

Reason Foundation - Comparing Private Sector and Government Worker Salaries

Are Public Sector Workers Overcompensated?

Several analyses of average wages and benefits in the public and private sectors reveal that state and local government workers earn more than private sector workers. According to the most recent Employer Costs for Employee Compensation survey from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of December 2009, state and local government employees earned total compensation of $39.60 an hour, compared to $27.42 an hour for private industry workers-a difference of over 44 percent. This includes 35 percent higher wages and nearly 69 percent greater benefits.


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## Seawytch (Aug 13, 2011)

code1211 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > DiAnna said:
> ...



Not when adjusted for education. The numbers you quoted takes the entire country and compares it...including minimum wage jobs. Not a fair comparison. 

_"But when we compare apples to apples, we find that Wisconsin public employees earn 4.8% less in total compensation than comparable private sector workers," Keefe wrote. "The comparisonscontrolling for education, experience, hours of work, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, citizenship, and disabilitydemonstrate that full-time state and local public employees earn lower wages and receive less in total compensation (including all benefits) than comparable private sector employees.

"Why does it appear otherwise?  Both nationally and within Wisconsin, public sector workers are significantly more educated than their private sector counterparts."​_​Fox Business Network's Eric Bolling says Wisconsin teachers get compensated nearly double those in private sector


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## CoolBreeze (Aug 13, 2011)

> [Guess the Democrats and labor unions don't like it known that their asses were handed back to them. Maybe this will shut them up.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Demonrats and labor unions are like bitchy women, they will never shut up.  The best thing to do with them is just to ignore them and get on with the program.


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## JoeB131 (Aug 13, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> [Not when adjusted for education. The numbers you quoted takes the entire country and compares it...including minimum wage jobs. Not a fair comparison.
> 
> _[]"But when we compare apples to apples, we find that Wisconsin public employees earn 4.8% less in total compensation than comparable private sector workers," Keefe wrote. "The comparisonscontrolling for education, experience, hours of work, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, citizenship, and disabilitydemonstrate that full-time state and local public employees earn lower wages and receive less in total compensation (including all benefits) than comparable private sector employees.
> ​_


_

What are they counding as "apples to apples"?  The only Apple to Apple comparison would be private school teachers compared to public school teachers.   And for the most part, Public School teachers get paid vastly more than private school teachers, even though they do a much worse job.  




			So what gives when you look at public-school and private-school teachers? The National Center for Education Statistics puts it this way: Using 2007-2008 data (the latest available), the average "total school-year and summer earned income" for public school teachers was $53,230 . The equivalent for private-school teachers was $39,690.
		
Click to expand...


Public vs Private School Teachers: Who Gets More?

So, wow, a 23% higher salary, great pensions and health care, and they don't even have to do a very good job.  

20% of Public School grads can't read their diplomas.  Mission Accomplished! 

Look SW, the days of you lazy government workers having a pass are coming to an end. YOu are going to have to work for a living like the rest of us.​_


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## Seawytch (Aug 13, 2011)

Comparing Private to Public School teachers is also not an apples to apples comparison. 

_Qualifications for these positions vary by state and school district but typically require at least a bachelor's degree in some form of education, preferably in your area of specialty, and a state teaching certificate.[...]

Many private schools do not require state certification from their educators, although it is recommended and would likely bring a higher salary._

Public School vs. Private School Teacher Salaries


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## JoeB131 (Aug 13, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> Comparing Private to Public School teachers is also not an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> _Qualifications for these positions vary by state and school district but typically require at least a bachelor's degree in some form of education, preferably in your area of specialty, and a state teaching certificate.[...]
> 
> ...



Sooo, um, if Public School teachers are soooooo much more qualified... 

Why do they do such a shitty job?


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## code1211 (Aug 13, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> code1211 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...





Why does it APPEAR otherwise?  Well, because it is.


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## code1211 (Aug 13, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> Comparing Private to Public School teachers is also not an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> _Qualifications for these positions vary by state and school district but typically require at least a bachelor's degree in some form of education, preferably in your area of specialty, and a state teaching certificate.[...]
> 
> ...





Typical horse poop.  Credentials mean nothing to me.  Results are what count.  Students in private school get their education at a fraction the cost of public schools and the results are far superior.

Costs less.  Provides more.

Your evidence of credntials tells me that the rating system that is used by our educators is simply wrong.  How smart the teacher is has nothing to do with whether or not the chillun is larnin.

NAEP Studies - 2006461: Comparing Private Schools and Public Schools Using Hierarchical Linear Modeling


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## Big Fitz (Aug 13, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> Two more contests on Tuesday.  The fat lady is still getting her costume on.


I will laugh my ass off if the dems lose both seats.  They shouldn't, but if they do, that'd be a MASSIVE repudiation.


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## Big Fitz (Aug 13, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> code1211 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...


Politifucked is






and therefore not a reputable and trustworthy source.


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## saveliberty (Aug 13, 2011)

Hmmm...

So, do you really think my daughter with a computational math degree is less qualified to teach math?  Not.


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## FA_Q2 (Aug 14, 2011)

Seawytch said:


> Comparing Private to Public School teachers is also not an apples to apples comparison.
> 
> _Qualifications for these positions vary by state and school district but typically require at least a bachelor's degree in some form of education, preferably in your area of specialty, and a state teaching certificate.[...]
> 
> ...



For the most part, state certifications are bullshit anyways.  Most are a matter of simply filling block that may or may not pertain to the needed skills and attending state classes that tech nothing because they are poorly covered schemes to bleed you of your money.  I am not familiar with the teachers certifications as I am many others but I doubt it is any different than the certifications that child care centers and a host of other certifications that I am intricately familiar with.  If I am incorrect, I would love to see something that shows otherwise.

As others have posted, bullshit education is meaningless.  It is results that matter and private schools do FAR better.  Typically, that education is supposed to make you more effective but if it is not then you certainly should not expect better pay for having it.


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## FA_Q2 (Aug 14, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> So, do you really think my daughter with a computational math degree is less qualified to teach math?  Not.



What is your point?


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## The Infidel (Aug 14, 2011)

Big Fitz said:


> Baruch Menachem said:
> 
> 
> > Two more contests on Tuesday.  The fat lady is still getting her costume on.
> ...



The silence will be deafening


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## Conservative (Aug 15, 2011)

Dems lost 4 of six recalls so far....

*ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!*

Even if they win the last two recalls, aimed at unseating Democrats, they STILL don't regain control.


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## Lumpy 1 (Aug 19, 2011)

Conservative said:


> Dems lost 4 of six recalls so far....
> 
> *ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!*
> 
> Even if they win the last two recalls, aimed at unseating Democrats, they STILL don't regain control.



Eh.. well, no control...wasted union dues...


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