# America looks to Solar



## ScreamingEagle (Jun 6, 2008)

With ever-increasing improvements, solar energy could become the answer...



> *As energy costs soar, America looks to solar*
> Fri Jun 6, 2008
> 
> BOSTON (Reuters) - Apple Inc is considering harnessing the sun to power its iPod music players. California's Ironwood prison is installing more than 6,000 solar panels, and Boston's Fenway Park is tapping solar power for Red Sox baseball games.
> ...


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## editec (Jun 8, 2008)

I'll happily go solar as would most homeowners...if they could afford it.


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## Chester Burnett (Jun 23, 2008)

i need a solar powered air conditioner


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## Shogun (Jun 23, 2008)

fuck solar per household.  We have entire fucking deserts that should be turned into energy farms.


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## cbi0090 (Jul 2, 2008)

Solar at homes make sense because they are already connected to the local grid, they are producing power when they demand the least thus making excess for those at work, and their cost can be rolled into the home mortgage.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 2, 2008)

Solar in homes doesn't work very well. They've been experimenting with it for years, and it just doesn't get the job done.


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## BaronVonBigmeat (Jul 4, 2008)

Yeah, but it's really just a matter of price. 

Companies like Konarka and Nanosolar are going about it in a totally different way. The traditional manufacturing process is similar to microprocessor fabrication--clean rooms and a million different steps and so forth. 

These newer companies have a process where they are literally printing the solar cells onto a flexible substrate, off a machine that's similar to an inkjet printer. It will take a while before they get the process sorted out and perfected enough to get them really dirt cheap, but it's just a matter of time.

And the best part is, you can give them patterns. They can be printed to look like shingles for roofs, or like camoflage for troops, or whatever. Solar shingles will be a popular option for houses in the future, rolled into the mortgage and backed with a warranty. They won't take you off the grid completely, but they will do a fine job of negating your a/c use in the summer. That's nothing to sneeze at; the biggest part of your electric bill if you live in a warm climate, is the electricity used by your a/c. (We can talk about fluorescent bulbs all we want, but lighting is only 10% of your bill, typically.) And putting them on residential houses will also reduce the need to upgrade the grid.

I'm not as optimistic about solar farms. You need a reliable "backbone" for industry, and I think nuclear is the way to go. The issue for wind/solar will always be how to store energy at night. For solar/thermal (focus sunlight, make heat, run a turbine...not photovoltaics), I've heard about molten salt storage, but I'll believe it when I see it.


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## editec (Jul 4, 2008)

> The issue for wind/solar will always be how to store energy at night.


 

Pump water into reservoirs on high ground when there is excess energy being produced, thus creating a potential energy reservoir.

As needed, allow gravity to take the water down to hydroelectic generating stations.

_Voila!_

Of course there is a tremendous net loss of energy during the process, so your excess solar energy needs to be pretty damned excessive to make that system work.


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## BrianH (Jul 4, 2008)

Shogun said:


> fuck solar per household.  We have entire fucking deserts that should be turned into energy farms.



While I agree with the "potential", solar powered homes would get the energy companies off your back.  If you take electricity from a giant solar field in the desert, you'll be charged for the electricity, maintenance, personell, etc...  If you have solar panels on your home, you pay to maintain your own solar panel and that's it.


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## solarefficiency (Jul 23, 2008)

I am not doubting the Energy potential of the Sun, however, today's solar panels are on average 20 to 30% efficient at converting the Sun's energy into electricity.    That is comparable to the efficiency of most of today's automobiles which rely on the internal combustion engine.  Before we rush into new technologies, we must evalute the pluses and minues of those new technologies.

The pluses of installing current technology photovoltaic panels is that they are a renewable, plentiful source of energy.  As long as the sun shines there will be energy.  The minues of solar energy is it is not relyable, sun doesn't always shine on rainy days, solar panels are currently inefficient, and storage of solar energy presents a problem, what happens at night time when you need light or electricity.  The high cost of silicon is also a minus, as there is a limited supply and life expectancy of a solar panel is 20 years.

With all of these factors, it is clear the move to solar energy solely as our energy source today is not feasible.  What is needed is the search for a new material that is more efficient and last longer at converting the sun's energy into electricity.  Until we find that material, we are just shifting the problem of our energy needs from one area to another.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 23, 2008)

Solar for electricity is mediocre at best for residential purposes.  But a solar hot water system is rather inexpensive and in some states eligible for tax credits

DSIRE: DSIRE Home

Since nearly a third of the average home owner's energy usage goes to heating water, a solar water heater makes sense.  This mag is a pretty good resource for sustainable living

RENEWABLE ENERGY

Solar Hot Water for Cold Climates: Part II - Drainback Systems

Solar Water Heating Projects and Plans


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## editec (Jul 23, 2008)

Iheat my water with my oil furnace.

No way in hell heating water costs me 1/3 my oil bill.

Throw in the energy costs for electric and I doubt it's 1/10 my overall energy consumption.

When people say "solar power" I assume that includes WIND power, yes?


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## Chris (Jul 23, 2008)

Every home in America should have solar shingles and a small wind turbine. That is the most patriotic thing any American could do.

The Israelis are building the largest solar power station in the world...

Israel to Build World's Largest Solar Power Plant - Inside Israel - Israel News - Arutz Sheva


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

Shogun said:


> fuck solar per household.  We have entire fucking deserts that should be turned into energy farms.



What about the plight of the orange ringed desert shrew???? 

JK


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## Shogun (Jul 23, 2008)

hopefully, the muadib and his fremen would understand


did you catch that article i posted today about Solar farms in the Desert supplying Europe with power?


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

editec said:


> Pump water into reservoirs on high ground when there is excess energy being produced, thus creating a potential energy reservoir.
> 
> As needed, allow gravity to take the water down to hydroelectic generating stations.
> 
> ...



Me thinks the environmentalist would fight all the those new reservoirs


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## CA95380 (Jul 23, 2008)

<sniplet>



> Under laws in 25 U.S. states and Washington D.C., solar and other clean energy sources such as wind must constitute up to 30 percent of a utility's energy portfolio in five to 15 years. Just 10 states had such requirements in 2003.



 And what happened since 2003?   

Oh nevermind, I forgot! Washington D.C. was busy relocating people living in New Orleans after Katrina!  Don't worry ... FEMA will be there for you when your lights go out.  They have a surplus of _moldy_ mobilehomes sitting in Arkansas ..... waiting for you to move right in! Right?


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## Bern80 (Jul 23, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Every home in America should have solar shingles and a small wind turbine. That is the most patriotic thing any American could do.
> 
> The Israelis are building the largest solar power station in the world...
> 
> Israel to Build World's Largest Solar Power Plant - Inside Israel - Israel News - Arutz Sheva



What on earth does patriotism have to do with it?  You seem to be the only person incapable of an open mind or reason.  You're not gonna get a lot of support telling people how to live their lives.  This is the reason you get the crap you get on these boards. It isn't because you're a died in the wool AGW fanatic, it's your complete and utter refusal to acknowledge or objectively consider anything that you don't currently agree with.  Have you considered that people disagree with you really only because you're a disagreeable person?

You get a lot of crap for your staunch AGW stance and go green or else mentality when the truth of the matter is that whether you believe in it or not, whether solar energy, wind energy, etc. works or not at the end of the day is irrelevent.  While various people will disagree as to the extent things will help or hurt at the end of the day very, very few are going to disagree that we should be stewards of the environment.  Whether that be cleaner energy, recycling and just plain being concientious of your impact on the environment makes no difference it is definately something to strive for.  

As a country we have well passed the hump of moving on to cleaner alternatives.  In the immediate future it isn't the U.S. that is going to be the problem, it is all of the developing and currently industrialising countries, like China and Inida.  If you're going to insist on your my way or the highway bent, perhaps your energy would be better spent barking up their tree.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 23, 2008)

CA95380 said:


> <sniplet>
> 
> 
> 
> And what happened since 2003?



We surpassed Germany as the worlds biggest producer of wind power for one


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## wayne (Aug 30, 2008)

Shogun said:


> fuck solar per household.  We have entire fucking deserts that should be turned into energy farms.



And, highly skilled slaves that can produce the solar cells. How else can they be produce cheap enough?


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## BrianH (Aug 31, 2008)

wayne said:


> And, highly skilled slaves that can produce the solar cells. How else can they be produce cheap enough?



Prison Labor...simple as that.


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## Chris (Sep 1, 2008)

Bern80 said:


> What on earth does patriotism have to do with it?  You seem to be the only person incapable of an open mind or reason.  You're not gonna get a lot of support telling people how to live their lives.  This is the reason you get the crap you get on these boards. It isn't because you're a died in the wool AGW fanatic, it's your complete and utter refusal to acknowledge or objectively consider anything that you don't currently agree with.  Have you considered that people disagree with you really only because you're a disagreeable person?
> 
> You get a lot of crap for your staunch AGW stance and go green or else mentality when the truth of the matter is that whether you believe in it or not, whether solar energy, wind energy, etc. works or not at the end of the day is irrelevent.  While various people will disagree as to the extent things will help or hurt at the end of the day very, very few are going to disagree that we should be stewards of the environment.  Whether that be cleaner energy, recycling and just plain being concientious of your impact on the environment makes no difference it is definately something to strive for.
> 
> As a country we have well passed the hump of moving on to cleaner alternatives.  In the immediate future it isn't the U.S. that is going to be the problem, it is all of the developing and currently industrialising countries, like China and Inida.  If you're going to insist on your my way or the highway bent, perhaps your energy would be better spent barking up their tree.



You don't know much about building houses. Every builder is told by the goverment how and where to build. To incorporate clean energy and energy conservation into building is no different for a builder than obeying our current building codes.


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## chapstic (Sep 1, 2008)

Kirk said:


> Every home in America should have solar shingles and a small wind turbine. That is the most patriotic thing any American could do.
> 
> The Israelis are building the largest solar power station in the world...
> 
> Israel to Build World's Largest Solar Power Plant - Inside Israel - Israel News - Arutz Sheva



instead of just talking the talking how about you walk the walk.  shingle your home with solar shingles, put that wind turbine in your back yard.  lead the way kirk!  as i've stated before, you put solar shingles on your roof and get that wind turbine, ill do the same.  i need you to blaze the trail.


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## editec (Sep 1, 2008)

Charles_Main said:


> Me thinks the environmentalist would fight all the those new reservoirs


 
No reason they would.

They could easily be closed systems that in no way effect the environment.


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## editec (Sep 1, 2008)

Who _wouldn't_ make their house energy independent _if they could afford it?_

If I had  $100K or so to invest I'd get off the grid in a heartbeat.

I'm not at all sure, given where I live, the return on investment would really make sense, but if I could afford to do it, if I had money to burn, I'd do it anyway.


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## LordBrownTrout (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm planning on building a new house in about 2 years. Before the slab is poured, I hope to have geothermal coils placed below the house approx 10 to 12 feet to capture the year round ambient temps, 65 to 70F. Also, drill for water, construct a cistern type of catchment for rainwater, and install a few solar panels on the roof, the prices have come down in the last couple of years. My main reasoning behind this is independence from govt in the form of utilities, water, elect,etc. Could care less about green also.


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## Chris (Sep 1, 2008)

editec said:


> Who _wouldn't_ make their house energy independent _if they could afford it?_
> 
> If I had  $100K or so to invest I'd get off the grid in a heartbeat.
> 
> I'm not at all sure, given where I live, the return on investment would really make sense, but if I could afford to do it, if I had money to burn, I'd do it anyway.



The $200 wind turbine....

The Green Toolman - DIY Expert of Green Solutions


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## DiamondDave (Sep 1, 2008)

Again... in the amounts and levels needed for the US to be reliant on wind power for anything more than adding minor amounts to the power grid, there needs to be much improvement in the technology... which I am all for researching and gaining that technology... in the MEAN TIME, it is best we also look into fixing the infrastructure of oil power and gasoline consumption, which will not be going away in any form in the short term... 

stop ignoring the realities of the situation, just so you can have your head in the pot cloud, Kirk


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## Chris (Sep 1, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> Again... in the amounts and levels needed for the US to be reliant on wind power for anything more than adding minor amounts to the power grid, there needs to be much improvement in the technology... which I am all for researching and gaining that technology... in the MEAN TIME, it is best we also look into fixing the infrastructure of oil power and gasoline consumption, which will not be going away in any form in the short term...
> 
> stop ignoring the realities of the situation, just so you can have your head in the pot cloud, Kirk



Pot cloud? I think you were exposed to too many depleted uranium shells.

Fuel conservation is the best short term solution as Barack pointed out. We waste an enormous amount of energy.


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## chapstic (Sep 2, 2008)

thanks kirk, for just talking the talk.  you have no plans to shingle your house with solar panels or put that wind turbine in your back yard.  i've called you out twice, stating i'd solar shingle my home and put a turbine in my yard once you did.  you clearly have no plans to do it, or just can't afford it(hmm maybe like the rest of the country).  again you prove to us you are clearly full of it.


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## Zoomie1980 (Sep 3, 2008)

LordBrownTrout said:


> I'm planning on building a new house in about 2 years. Before the slab is poured, I hope to have geothermal coils placed below the house approx 10 to 12 feet to capture the year round ambient temps, 65 to 70F. Also, drill for water, construct a cistern type of catchment for rainwater, and install a few solar panels on the roof, the prices have come down in the last couple of years. My main reasoning behind this is independence from govt in the form of utilities, water, elect,etc. Could care less about green also.



Geothermal is the way to go to largely eliminate your a/c and heating costs.  The average temp 50 ft down is 56 across much of the US.  That is more than enough to cool in summer and then you only have to heat from 56 up to 70 or whatever in winter which is a lot better than heating from 20 or 0 or -20.  In summer you then just have to remove humidity, not cool.  Add solar or a small wind turbine and you'd be almost completely off the grid much of the year.  Geothermal, though, has to be done at building time.  Putting one in AFTER the fact is much tougher.  Helps to live on a hillside, too.


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