# Promoting Islamophobia



## Penelope (Nov 27, 2014)

*Promoting Islamophobia
The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
Written by *Hillary Smith
The Roots*
The roots of Islamophobia in America can be traced to a small, well-funded and well-connected network of “misinformation experts” who use Islamophobia as a* tool to promote the Israeli agenda here within the United States.*
According to a research study conducted by the Center for American Progress entitled _Fear, Inc__., _there are five key purveyors who manipulate Islamophobia to further the US’s support of Israel: *Frank Gaffney* of the Center for Security Policy, *David Yerushalmi* of the Society of Americans for National Existence,* Daniel Pipes* of the Middle East Forum, Robert Spencer of both Jihad Watch and Stop Islamization of America and *Steven Emerson* of the Investigative Project on Terrorism.  American billionaire *Sheldon Gary Adelson*, terrorism “expert” Evan Kohlmann, journalist Jennifer *Rubin*, and Emergency Committee for Israel’s founding member, *Rachel Abrams* additionally contribute to this network.

Promoting Islamophobia Council for the National Interest


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## Tom Sweetnam (Nov 27, 2014)

Ahhh, one of our Jew-baiters all lathered up like a rabid dog.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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Fascinating to watch as Islam, for all its modern-day anti-woman and anti-gay elements, exists as the preeminent PC-protected religion.

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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


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I  would agree, except that I don't accept Islam to be a "religion" .  Islam is  1400 year old CON JOB, which is a vile ideology, that began as a cover for Mo the pedophile and his immoral bandits.  It was simply a shield to protect them from the severe criticism they knew they would (and did) get.

  Islam spread to become the largest example of just how far a major mistake can grow and flourish, when it has mass murderers pushing and spreading it.  So, after 270 million people around the world have been killed by this abomination, now today, we have Muslims all over the world, most of whom are Muslims only because their ancestors were forced to become Muslims.  Hell of a way for someone to call himself a Muslim. 

And it's a hell of a way fro Islamapologists like Hillary Smith to go around promoting this highly immoral and ILLEGAL (in the USA) cancer.

As for the term "Islamaphobia", there is NO SUCH THING as "Islamaphobia".  A "phobia" is an irrational fear of something, but there is nothing irrational about fearing Islam and its marauding maniacs, who are still running around killing and imposing ludicrous (illegal) laws upon people.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 27, 2014)




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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


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anti-gay?...aren't you against gay marriage?

anti-women?...don't you think Sandra Fluke is a slut?


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## Mineva (Nov 27, 2014)

When you say anything bad about Israel, its called as "anti-semitism".  (blames you)

When you say anything bad about Islam, its called as "Islamaphobia", not "anti-Islamism". (blames Islam) 


This is how the media drives you like a shepherd . They seize your subconscious with the word games and you do whatever they want unconsciously.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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No, I'm pro-gay marriage, as long as they register, I'm terrible at buying gifts.

And no, I don't care much one way or the other about Fluke.

Did you think you "had" me there?

Wanna try again?

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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


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Do you think you could sum this up in am paragraph or 2, rather than have us read something that go on for an hour ?  That is our format here, Short and sweet.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

Mineva said:


> When you say anything bad about Israel, its called as "anti-semitism".  (blames you)
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Which is why I expose their every time they show up with it.

And their # 1 tactic is to disparage the words of protectionists, by calling them "Islamaphobes".  These Islamapologists are generally either jihadists themselves, or utter fools who have succumbed to the propaganda of the Koranic lunatics.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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What kind of righty are you? Rush Limbaugh would be very disappointed.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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Look at my sig, I'm bored of that conversation.

And two posts now, and you still haven't directly addressed my point.

That's all I need to know.

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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


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Or people who have lived amongst Muslims in the middle east, and realize that people are generally the same all over the world.

The Islamaphobes invariably have a financial agenda, or they've never been to the middle east as a civilian.

That's not to say there aren't plenty of ass holes who happen to be Muslim.

But the extremist Muslims have more in common with red states evangelical conservatives than any other voting demographic in the US.

Beards, guns, funny hats, intolerance, resentments, and hatred for liberals.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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I've read enough of your posts to know you may call yourself an Independent, but you're about as independent as Bill O'Reilly...which is not at all...in practice.

You're not pro gay marriage unless you hope the SCOTUS prohibits gay marriage bans nationwide...if you share that opinion, I stand corrected.

On what other issue do you depart from the opinions expressed by Fox News righties?


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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Three posts now.

Since this is so important to you, I disagree with the GOP on foreign policy, war, personal income taxation, abortion, gay rights, regulation, and their goofy, simplistic, absolutist, knee jerk approach to anything government.

I hope that helps.  And I won't expect an an honest response to my original post, I never expect honesty from partisan ideologues.

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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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Oh yeah...your "point"

Anti gay, and anti women views pre-date Islam in the middle east. There isn't any part of the word that has been pro women and pro gay for long, in a relative sense.

In other cultures, there are a great many things that Americans accept, that are reprehensible. Part of tolerance includes trying to understand their motivations, as opposed practicing lazy and intellectually shoddy reasoning by simply demonizing the entire culture...which actually involves Xenophobia as well.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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Your "point" has been addressed.

I see, you're a neo Libertarian. Let me guess, you voted Republican in the last 4 presidential elections?

Embracing political philosophies du jour, that have never been tested, are quite easy to defend.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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You're not really pretending to be "tolerant", are you?  It's been a while since I've seen a lefty make that claim.  And I wonder why this religious "tolerance" so consistently happens to stop right at the door of Christianity.  Wow, speaking of xenophobia and "demonizing an entire culture".

Islam is *the* PC-protected religion,  you're doing it right now, and you will continue to.  You and the Left will continue to spin and deflect for Islam, the horrific _*modern-day*_ treatment of women and gays in that religion, because that takes a back seat to politics.  

Identity Politics, "caring" about little divided groups, is a political tool of the left, that's it.

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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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Hatred for liberals. Maybe that's because liberals, instead of standing up for important principles (like National Security), instead, have a sickening habit of aligning themselves with any and all minority groups who come along, of which Muslims happen to be one.

In any case, it isn't hard to make a clear cut case for hating Islam and it's murderous, vile philosophy.  All one need to is read the Koran,   with its mass genocide, severe misogyny, wife-beating, rape, pedophilia, slavery, animal cruelty, lying, and just about every immoral and illegal (in the US) practice you could think of.

And as I explained, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "Islamaphobe".  This is a silly propaganda word manufactured by Islamapologists, which is totally contrary to reality.  After 20,000+ murderous attacks by marauding Muslims just since 9/11, we can easily conclude there is nothing irrational about fearing the cancer of Islam.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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My goodness, look at all your simplistic assumptions, the hallmark of a partisan ideologue.

Wrong.

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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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You've never lived amongst Muslims in the middle east.

Your opinions have formed under the worst conditions...complete isolation from the ones you hate. Which is quite explainable.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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Oh, you voted Libertarian in the last 4 presidential elections.

I stand corrected


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


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I rest my case.

If you really wanted to test your views, you'd go see what people are like in the middle east


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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How many times do you plan on being wrong?

I post something that you don't like, so you make it personal.  And wrong.

You folks are a fascinating study, indeed.

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## Kondor3 (Nov 27, 2014)

Promoting Islamophobia?

Whatever for?

_*Islam*_ does a great job of promoting Islamophobia without any help from anyone else.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2014)

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You want to bring their Quran up, may I refer you to the OT or better yet the  Babylon Talmud where they got their info, and from the Jews themselves who lived in Mecca and Medina and the cast out  Christians. The OT is worst than the Koran, at least Muhammad had some of the NT teachings.

The JDL is starting back up, you know the jewish terrorist group. The bombings will start again I'm sure.911, I won't even go there, this is a short and simple thread.


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## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
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*From your link:*
"The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2011 are often cited as the roots of 'Islamophobia' in the United States. However, attributing Americans’ Islamophobia solely to the events of 9/11 ignores the anti-Muslim propaganda that predated the attacks, and that continues today."
*The anti-Muslim propaganda exists to enhance US control of what President Eisenhower called "the greatest material prize in history."

Control of Arab oil is the foremost US goal in the Middle East, and Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine is its principal tool:*

"Departing from these norms, one should have no difficulty in understanding the traditional US opposition to the peace process. 

The UN resolutions call for  an _international_ conference, and the US brooks no interference in what President Eisenhower described as the most 'strategically important area in the world,' with its enormous energy reserves. 

"This is US turf: no independent force is allowed, foreign or indigenous.

"As Henry Kissinger explained in a private communication, one of his major policy goals was 'to ensure that the Europeans and Japanese did not get involved in the diplomacy' concerning the Middle East, a goal achieved at Camp David in 1978, and again in the current diplomacy -- that is, in the two cases that qualify as steps in the 'peace process' in US rhetoric. 

"Furthermore, UN and other initiatives endorse a Palestinian right of self-determination, which would entail Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories. 

"While there has been an elite policy split over the matter, the prevailing judgment for the past 20 years has been that enhancement of Israeli power contributes to US domination of the region. 

"For these reasons, the US has always blocked attempts at diplomatic resolution, apart from its own rejectionist initiatives.
* 
Middle East Diplomacy Continuities and Changes by Noam Chomsky*


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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I'm a registered Independent.  You want to question MY politics too ?


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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Everything but deny you voted Republican huh?

If you say you voted for Obama, I wont believe it.

Now you say you didn't vote Libertarian, or Republican.

What's left?...not voting at all?

If so, you've no right to bitch.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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You're insane, and that has nothing to do with politics


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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HA HA HA.  I can only laugh at a pathetic response like that.  All you've done now is amplify the gigantic difference between Jews and Muslims.  Muslims attack and kill all over the world, and impose harsh, oppressive rules on people everywhere they go. Jews don't do this.  Even in Israel, they have a high degree of tolerance. Islam is just the opposite of that.  There never has been a less tolerant ideology (masquerading as a religion) than Islam.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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"No right to bitch".

Typical.

You be a good and obedient little partisan ideologue, and I'll think for myself, and vote how I please.

Thanks.

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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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As I used to say to my college students, _"Upon WHAT do you base that statement ?"_


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## Mac1958 (Nov 27, 2014)

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When they don't want to take an issue head on, they default immediately to a diversionary personal attack.

Like clockwork.  Predictable.  Tedious.

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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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What a pile of laughable NONSENSE.  The US won a war over Saddam Hussein, had control over a Iraq, and didn't get a drop if Iraq's oil.  What we should be doing now is kicking the crap out of ISIS, and TAKING every bit of their oil.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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Correct.

*Invalidation is hard-wired into Islamapologists.*  What else is new ?    Ho hum.  Yawn *****


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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Exactly!...which by process of elimination, was Republican or Libertarian.

Oh, but you've denied both...

But you know what...I've behaved badly. I think I'm taking out my resentments for Madam Toxicmedia on you, she's quite wound up and stressed out right now.

You do have a right to vote, or not, with no obligation to answer me.

Thanks for at least having an opinion while you did, or didn't.

Have a great Turkey Day.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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Wow...that's fresh...

I've not been aware of any human culture that hasn't attacked or killed anyone, till now I guess.

But wait!...oh yeah...it's not true.

Nevermind!


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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One doesn't have to live in the Middle East (and BTW there are more Muslims living outside the ME than in it) to know about Islam.  All one needs to do is see what has occurred over the past 1400 years of this cancer (masquerading as a religion), see what is happening now, and find the basis for it all in the big book of HATE > the Koran.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

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Yes they do.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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As I used to tell my college students >  Qualitative measures are created by quantitive measures.  You could have two 8 oz. glasses. filled with water. In one you a single drop of arsenic.  It still remains essentially a glass of water. Into the other, you empty a full eye dropper of arsenic.  In the first glass you have a glass of water.  In the second, you have a poison than can kill you if you drink it.  Same ingredients.  Different quantities > different qualities.

It is utter nonsense to equate Islam with other human cultures.  There IS NO equation.  Islam has killed 270 million people around the world.  120 million Africans, 80 million Hindus, 60 million Christians, 10 million Buddhists.  No other culture, nation, religion, cult, or ideology even comes close to that horrific figure.  Even if all the world's cultures were combined, they don't approach that.  Please stop talking stupid.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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No they don't.  Don't talk stupid.  And you still haven't answered my challenge in Post # 33.  Running away from it ?


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2014)

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The radical Muslims mainly do what Israel , the US and SA tell them to do.  How in the world do you think the Muslims were in charge of having the vote recount in Florida.  This Islam phobia is Zionist jewish making, which benefits Israel and the US and SA.  How the US went after Saddam for humanitarian reasons and closed a blind eye to SA is beyond me.


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## Two Thumbs (Nov 27, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
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*phobia*
[foh-bee-uh] Spell Syllables

Synonyms
Examples
Word Origin
noun
1.
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situationthat leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.


There is nothing in that definition that can be applied to a group of people that want to murder me and my children.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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What the US does politically, or Israel, or even SA for that matter, doesn't mean squat as far as Islam is concerned in the minds of the jihadists. As they have been doing for 1400 years, these germs will attack and kill, oppress whoever they can gain control over, and turn the world into an Islamic cesspool, if they are allowed to do so.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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Obviously, Islam is a huge, chronic danger which generates perfectly RATIONAL FEAR.  Nothing phobic whatsoever.

And, of course, it is absurd to call Islam a religion.  Islam is not as religion, never has been, and never will be.


http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2012/0...s-tax-status-2

http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm

Islam Is Not A Religion, It Is Foreign Law

Islam and the Definition of Religion

Why Islam is Not a Religion > Rebecca Bynum

Former Muslim, Wafa Sultan, says, "Islam is NOT a religion" | BARE NAKED ISLAM

?Allah is Dead ? Why Islam is Not a Religion? | Logan's Warning

Islam Is Not A Religion, But A Dangerous Ideology | International

Islam: not a religion? « The Immanent Frame

Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system. « Avid Editor's Insights

Half Sigma: Islam not a religion?

Islam in Italy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Comments from Former Muslims - WikiIslam

The Patriot Factor: Islam is NOT a Religion

Why Islam Should NOT Be Protected Under the US Constitution! | CatchKevin.com

Islam: Politics In Religious Garb

Italy: Islam Not Recognized as a Religion -- Denied Religious Tax Status - Atlas Shrugs

Info on Islam: Islam is not a religion

Islam Is Not A Religion It Is A Cult

http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2012/...d-as-a-religion-denied-religious-tax-status-2

Islam is NOT a Religion

Islam Does Not Qualify Under US Constitution ?Freedom of Religion? Rights « Northeast Intelligence NetworkNortheast Intelligence Network

Asia Times - Asia's most trusted news source

Islam is a political system ? NOT a religion | Creeping Sharia

Islam is not a religion, but a death cult of misogynistic pedophiles


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## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> What a pile of laughable NONSENSE. The US won a war over Saddam Hussein, had control over a Iraq, and didn't get a drop if Iraq's oil.


*Ask your "college students" to explain the relationship between "price," "profit," and "control*


protectionist said:


> What a pile of laughable NONSENSE. The US won a war over Saddam Hussein, had control over a Iraq, and didn't get a drop if Iraq's oil.







War Profiteering in Iraq.


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## Two Thumbs (Nov 27, 2014)

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I don't undersand how people can defend them for any reason.

Hating jews isn't a good reason, b/c they will kill each other
Hating America isn't a good reason, b/c they are killing each other

They will not be happy until everyone is one kind of muslim or dead.


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 27, 2014)

Islam is an ideology that is as much  political as it is religious. It comes with its own legal system, the notion of the separation of religion and politics is alien to it, and it is totalitarian in nature as it demands of its followers that they wage continual war for dominance on this Earth. It is so totalitarian that the majority opinion even supports the killing of anybody who leaves it.

The neologism "Islamophobia" is but a cheap rhetorical device crafted by these very same totalitarians in order to make any criticism of their political ideology just as difficult for non Muslims as it is Muslims. Useful idiots living in the west pick up the cry, and use it against any who oppose the ideology by conflating the opposition to a political ideology with racism -- the ultimate taboo for unthinking leftist fundamentalists.

Islam IS being protected by much of the left, and it IS extremely hypocritical and stupid  to defend all the knuckle-dragging backwardness under the banner of "progressive" or "liberal".  Islam is regressive and extraordinarily illiberal in nature, so we need some new terms here for the P.C. infected morons who play the game of identity politics so hard that they support the very antithesis of liberal.  They are leftists, certainly, but they are NOT liberal -- just lock-step conformists who are little different from the most bible-thumping religious fundamentalist of the right when it comes to their sheep-like approach to politics. .


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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That is precisely, their sick "philosophy"


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2014)

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Well apparently you know of all the anti Islam sites, Islam not a religion  but a cult, with over 2 billion adherents.  Too funny.  Funny we have yet to decide if  Jew is a religon or a race, probably just a  cult.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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You'll go nowhere with this.  Islam as been killing for 1400 years.  I have to repeat ?


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2014)

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They have not, the Jews and Christians have been though.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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Wouldn't matter if they had TWENTY 2 billion "adherents".  They are just what I said in the earlier post.  Islam pretending to be a religion is nothing but a phony shield, used to silence opposition.

Religions have a code of ethics.  Ethics ?  Islam has a code of UNethics.


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 27, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Well apparently you know of all the anti Islam sites, Islam not a religion  but a cult, with over 2 billion adherents.  Too funny.  Funny we have yet to decide if  Jew is a religon or a race, probably just a  cult.




One of the defining features of a cult is that it is difficult to leave once one joins. The attitudes towards apostasy in Islam are so prevalent as to be a defining characteristic.

Their are no such attitudes in Judaism, the religion, nor among those who are Jewish ethnically. Now, it is quite obvious that you are as ignorant as you are hateful when it comes to Jews, but there is no need to drag them into a discussion of Islam, other than to show why your chosen political ideology is so odious.


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## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> You'll go nowhere with this. Islam as been killing for 1400 years. I have to repeat ?


How long have Christians and Jews been murdering people for their land and resources?


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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HA HA.  Oh, So now you're going to try to rewrite history too, huh ?well, that's a common Islamapologist tactic.  Ho hum.

 270 million people around the world killed by marauding Muslims, over the centuries.  You'll go nowhere with this tactic.  Everybody knows the history of Islam.


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## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

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It is the QUANTITY that creates the QUALITY.


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## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> It is the QUANTITY that creates the QUALITY.


What effect has the QUANTITY of Muslim drones had on your QUALITY of life?




Do you think you might have a different answer than innocent Muslims in Pakistan and Yemen?


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> What effect has the QUANTITY of Muslim drones had on your QUALITY of life?
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 If you moved back to whatever hell hole spawned you, the quality of life for Angelinos would certainly improve.


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## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

[
How long have Christians and Jews been murdering people for their land and resources?[/QUOTE]


Christians have a history of murdering people for land and resources ----in the remote past-----during the course of the
approximately 1800 years of Christian history.   Christians
have repudiated the practice.     Jews have virtually no such
history


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## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

[QUOTE="Penelope,

Well apparently you know of all the anti Islam sites, Islam not a religion  but a cult, with over 2 billion adherents.  Too funny.  Funny we have yet to decide if  Jew is a religon or a race, probably just a  cult.[/QUOTE]

what is  "too funny"    about describing islam--as a  "cult"----based
on the FACT that shariah law terms leaving islam a capital crime?
     If you disagree with an opinion with a described basis-----
     the comment  "too funny"   is truly idiotic-----try to do better

AS to  "we have to decide if jew is a religion or a race"-----who is
forcing you to make such a decision?       Some people do
discuss the topic----but I have never come across any reasonable
person DEMANDING YOUR DECISION-----or the decision of your
GROUP-----(in view of your usage of the term "we")

for the record----I would describe islam as a Totalitarian utopian
ideology.      Judaism is a religion


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> If you moved back to whatever hell hole spawned you, the quality of life for Angelinos would certainly improve.


How would that affect the truth or falsity of this particular OP?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Christians have a history of murdering people for land and resources ----in the remote past-----during the course of the
> approximately 1800 years of Christian history. Christians
> have repudiated the practice. Jews have virtually no such
> history


Twentieth Century warfare by the Christian West murdered 250 million human beings of which Muslims were responsible for less than 10%. Does your historical rewrite blame Muslims for the Holocaust?


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
> ...



who is Hilliary Smith??       The publications of the Center
For American Progress are well known to include the
ramblings of just about anyone  seeking fame via writing
devoted to  sensationalist bull shit that appeals to idiots----
a kind of political  nationa enquirer.    I do not find other writings
by  Hilliary Smith.     Does the Nazi bitch have a credential?
She has employed the well word Nazi technique of  
LOOKING FOR JOOOOS.     For the record---Robert spencer is
Catholic.     I don't know what they other players are but they
seem to have names which suggest they are jews.

The suggestion  that something called  "islamo phobia"   was
developed by a few people-----mostly jews in the USA ---for the sake of Israel ----actually amuses me.     The most "islamo phobia"  persons I have known have been Christians from the
Baltics  -------"islamo phobes"  for quite some time----clearly
before 1948.     If you really get to know a hindu-----to the extent
that he feels comfortable enough to be candid  (not easy with
Indian hindus)  -----you will find some long standing islamo
phobia there too. -------then there is history-------the Inquisition of
the catholic church involved some  islamo phobia too


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Christians have a history of murdering people for land and resources ----in the remote past-----during the course of the
> approximately 1800 years of Christian history. Christians
> have repudiated the practice. *Jews have virtually no such
> history*


Really?




Hasbara roll on!


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Christians have a history of murdering people for land and resources ----in the remote past-----during the course of the
> ...




you are very confused-----20th century warfare--in which "western
countries"  were involved was not related to an agenda of
religion.       For religious agenda ----I would agree that the exploration of the "NEW WORLD"   by Christian Europeans included a  religious component.     Your comment of about the
holocaust ----is gratuitous vulgar shit -----typical of islamo Nazi
pigs


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Your comment of about the
> holocaust ----is gratuitous vulgar shit -----typical of islamo Nazi
> pigs


Your vulgar support for Israel's 66 year long campaign of ethnic cleansing in Palestine reveals the pathetic ramblings of an aging ha$bara $lut.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

Mineva said:


> When you say anything bad about Israel, its called as "anti-semitism".  (blames you)
> 
> When you say anything bad about Islam, its called as "Islamaphobia", not "anti-Islamism". (blames Islam)
> 
> ...



   True to form ----Penelope endorsed the above idiotic post.
The term  Islamophobia was actually invented by islamo Nazi
pigs in order to promote the false notion that anyone who
criticizes islam or the actions of muslims does so out of  "bias"
or  "racism"         For those of us who understand the English
language------we do know that a   "PHOBIA"  is not based
on hatred or bias or racism--------it is,  by definition----
IRRATIONAL.          For Penelope and Mineva-----the term 
"irrational"  means that the it has no logical basis -----it is not
based on facts.  -------are you two related?    neither of you
are English literate.     I am not BLAMING you for your
relative illiteracy------feel free to ask questions-----your manner
of expression suggests that you are both stupid


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Your comment of about the
> ...



your stuff is very unoriginal-------can you Nazi dogs not come up with anything  of value?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> How would that affect the truth or falsity of this particular OP?




You are providing all the evidence one could possibly need by way of proving that reactions to your odious nature is not the stuff of a phobia, since it is entirely rational for civilized people to reject such filth.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

[QUOTE="Penelope,

The radical Muslims mainly do what Israel , the US and SA tell them to do.  How in the world do you think the Muslims were in charge of having the vote recount in Florida.  This Islam phobia is Zionist jewish making, which benefits Israel and the US and SA.  How the US went after Saddam for humanitarian reasons and closed a blind eye to SA is beyond me.[/QUOTE]


I am fascinated by the above statement  ----in sum----
  " radical muslims are under the control of Israel,  the US,
    and Saudi Arabia"

  I hope Penelope will help me to understand her comment by letting me know --who are  "the radical muslims"     What do they
"do"     which  USA,  ISRAEL and SA tell them to do.   
and most of all -----why do they want to do what  USA and ISRAEL and  SA  tell them to do?


----------



## Sally (Nov 27, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> [QUOTE="Penelope,
> 
> The radical Muslims mainly do what Israel , the US and SA tell them to do.  How in the world do you think the Muslims were in charge of having the vote recount in Florida.  This Islam phobia is Zionist jewish making, which benefits Israel and the US and SA.  How the US went after Saddam for humanitarian reasons and closed a blind eye to SA is beyond me.




I am fascinated by the above statement  ----in sum----
  " radical muslims are under the control of Israel,  the US,
    and Saudi Arabia"

  I hope Penelope will help me to understand her comment by letting me know --who are  "the radical muslims"     What do they
"do"     which  USA,  ISRAEL and SA tell them to do.  
and most of all -----why do they want to do what  USA and ISRAEL and  SA  tell them to do?[/QUOTE]

What I found interesting is reading recently that the American Muslims are told to vote in a bloc.  I guess the leaders of their Mosques tell them just for whom and what they are to cast their ballot.  Here in America, the rest of us just vote according to our own wishes.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > It is the QUANTITY that creates the QUALITY.
> ...


1.  They have helped to keep me alive (and YOU too) 

2.  NO, I don't think their answer would be different, and in fact, while saying the same thing I just said, I trust they would be even more emphatic about it, as I see Muslim jihadist killings occurring against them very frequently.

The annual death toll in Pakistan from terrorist attacks, has risen from 164 in 2003 to 3318 in 2009,[1][2][3] with a total of 35,000 Pakistanis killed between September 11, 2001 and May 2011.[4]

Terrorism in Pakistan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > [QUOTE="Penelope,
> ...



What I found interesting is reading recently that the American Muslims are told to vote in a bloc.  I guess the leaders of their Mosques tell them just for whom and what they are to cast their ballot.  Here in America, the rest of us just vote according to our own wishes.[/QUOTE]

When I was in a mosque---LONG LONG ago-----way before  2001 the issue that fascinated me was the TOTAL lack of   "dissent"---
The "sermon"  delivered by the genius  "imam"   would have
raised an uproar in a synagogue------if some rabbi had come up
the kind of HATE invective expressed by that jerk.      My hosts were muslims from south east asia------they could not understand
why I objected to   "Christians ---PERVERSE LIARS----
ENEMEEEEES OF ISLAAAAAAM"  ------since the jerk did
not even mention jews.      COMPLETE ACCEPTANCE---when I asked  what they thought of the sermon---the answer was sharp
and definitive 

  ****EVERYTHING HE SAID WAS RIGHT******


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

[QUOTE="irosie91, post: 10247690, member: 38243]

for the record----I would describe islam as a Totalitarian utopian
ideology.      Judaism is a religion[/QUOTE]
Most people around the world agree that Islam is not a religion, and so do some entire nations (ex. Italy)


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> rational for civilized people to reject such filth.


*By "filth" are you referring to wars waged on the opposite side of the planet without the justification of self defense or UNSC authorization and usually for territorial gain or subjugation? Wars that maim, murder, and displace millions of innocent Muslims in pursuit of cheap gasoline?*


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > If you moved back to whatever hell hole spawned you, the quality of life for Angelinos would certainly improve.
> ...


In no way.  It is 100% *FALSE * irregardless.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
> ...



Muslims are doing a great job promoting Islamophobia themselves, they don't need anybody's help.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

Mineva said:


> When you say anything bad about Israel, its called as "anti-semitism".  (blames you)
> 
> When you say anything bad about Islam, its called as "Islamaphobia", not "anti-Islamism". (blames Islam)
> 
> ...



Israel is a country, and Islam is a religion, brain dead.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> The annual death toll in Pakistan from terrorist attacks, has risen from 164 in 2003 to 3318 in 2009,[1][2][3] with a total of 35,000 Pakistanis killed between September 11, 2001 and May 2011


What happened in March of 2003 to spike terror attacks in Pakistan?

Does the 35,000 Pakistanis killed by terrorists between 2001 and 2011 include those killed by US drones?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> *By "filth" are you referring to wars waged on the opposite side of the planet without the justification of self defense or UNSC authorization and usually for territorial gain or subjugation? Wars that maim, murder, and displace millions of innocent Muslims in pursuit of cheap gasoline?*




Go back to Pakistan or Egypt or whatever inbred hell hole you came from. The sooner, the better.  We are not here to adapt to your primitive ways

You obviously did not move to the United States to become an American, which makes you nothing more than an invader.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > rational for civilized people to reject such filth.
> ...


NO.  By "filth" he is referring to the mass genocide of 270 million people around the world, perpretrated by lunatic Muslim marauders, as well as their sick, vile ideology (masquerading as a religion) that advocates (if not commands) rape, wife beating, all sorts of sever misogyny, pedophilia, slavery, animal killing/cruelty, lying (taqiyya) and various other pathologies common to the cancer known as Islam.   Does that answer your stupid question ?

And what it also refers to is SELF-DEFENSE from these lunatics, their nuclear warheads, and not anything to do with pursuing cheap gasoline (although that should be a side outcome of the extermination of the current raghead morons known as ISIS)


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

Islamophobe = someone who knows the truth about Islam


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *By "filth" are you referring to wars waged on the opposite side of the planet without the justification of self defense or UNSC authorization and usually for territorial gain or subjugation? Wars that maim, murder, and displace millions of innocent Muslims in pursuit of cheap gasoline?*
> ...


He's one of the jihadists who we are fighting against.  Don't be fooled by that so British-sounding name he hides behind.  He's just another smelly, dirtbag with a Koran.  Ain't that right ?  Mohammed.  Or whatever your real name is.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > rational for civilized people to reject such filth.
> ...




If and when such a war happens-----however I would modify
your statement regarding  "self defense"------not all justified
war are waged for "self defense"  -----in fact even the USA 
declaration of war on Japan was not for "self defense"-----
The USA was not in danger of being destroyed by Japan----
nor was the USA in danger of being destroyed by Germany


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Christians have a history of murdering people for land and resources ----in the remote past-----during the course of the
> ...


Even IF this unsubstantiated number was correct, it still would be Incorrect to call it the "Christian" west.  The primary murderers of humans in the 20the century, were Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and Hirohito  None of whom were Christian.

In the 20th century Muslims accounted for far more murders.  It's what they do.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> He's one of the jihadists who we are fighting against.  Don't be fooled by that so British-sounding name he hides behind.  He's just another smelly, dirtbag with a Koran.  Ain't that right ?  Mohammed.  Or whatever your real name is.




 It's always a one-way street with these things. "Tolerance" means we have to kowtow to their every demand. We are not allowed our ways in their shit holes, but we have to accommodate theirs where we live. They feel perfectly justified in invading our lands and trying to corrupt the system as a fifth column, but Allah forbid should we ever do the same. 

 Europe already has no-go zones popping up like cancerous tumors where knuckle-dragging troglodytes rule according to sharia. To think how different the world is today compared to 50 years ago when I was a kid, I shudder to think what it will be in another 50.

Things like this "georgephillippe" will not be happy until we are all living in a brutal new dark age.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> You obviously did not move to the United States to become an American, which makes you nothing more than an invader


I obviously didn't ever "move to the United States", and I was probably here before you were. Maybe you should try to refute my claims and give up on ad hominem fallacies?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> I obviously didn't ever "move to the United States", and I was probably here before you were. Maybe you should try to refute my claims and give up on ad hominem fallacies?




The only thing that is obvious is that you hate Jews, you hate America and you support Islamism.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > You obviously did not move to the United States to become an American, which makes you nothing more than an invader
> ...


I've BEEN REFUTING your idiotic claims for months.  Ho hum.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 27, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > I obviously didn't ever "move to the United States", and I was probably here before you were. Maybe you should try to refute my claims and give up on ad hominem fallacies?
> ...


He IS an Islamist. ALL the way from his raggy head down to his foot-washing basin washed feet.  Right Mohammed ?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> In the 20th century Muslims accounted for far more murders. It's what they do.


The two great capitalist wars of the 20th Century were waged by Christian states, including Nazi Germany. Hitler was a lapsed Catholic, and all good Nazis wore belt buckles proclaiming "God With Us". Muslims were more likely to be victims of those Christian conflicts and not belligerents.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > You obviously did not move to the United States to become an American, which makes you nothing more than an invader
> ...



In other words you're a convert to Islam. Same shit.

Did your conversion occur in prison?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...







Wrong again, Adolph.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > In the 20th century Muslims accounted for far more murders. It's what they do.
> ...



Funny how Muslims joined forces with the nazis. 

Amin Al Husseini Nazi Father of Jihad Al Qaeda Arafat Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

*Hitler s Mufti Catholic Answers*

*Hitler's Mufti*

Recent work by historians and apologists has revealed that an influential, international religious leader was also an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler. His name was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini. This Grand Mufti of Jerusalem recruited whole divisions of fanatics to fight and kill in the name of extremism.

Revered in some circles today as one of the fathers of modern radical Islam, al-Husseini has been the subject of a number of modern studies. Scholars such as David Dalin, John Rothmann, Chuck Morse, and others have courageously brought al-Husseini’s actions to light. "Hitler’s Mufti," as many have called him, had a direct hand in some of the darkest moments of the Holocaust, the slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians, and the formation of some of the most hate-filled generations of modern history. Al-Husseini is a testament to the way that evil finds evil.

*A Radical Shaped by War*

Al-Husseini was born sometime in the late 1890s in Jerusalem when that city was in the hands of the dying Ottoman Empire. He belonged to an old family of nobles and was the son of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Tahir al-Husseini. Sent to Cairo for his education, he studied Islamic jurisprudence at Al-Azhar University and then at the Cairo school _Dar al-Dawa wal-Ershad_ (The Institute for Propagation and Guidance) founded by a Syrian member of the Muslim Salafi sect (one of the most extreme in Islam). The school, a haven for radical thought, gave al-Husseini an early grounding in practical revolutionary planning. Al-Husseini went on to the College of Literature at Cairo University and then the Ottoman School for Administrators in Istanbul, which trained future leaders of the then far-flung Ottoman Empire.

After taking the mandatory pilgrimage to Mecca (the Hajj) in 1913, al-Husseini was drafted into the Ottoman Army. He was assigned to the College of Reserve Officers and subsequently named to an infantry regiment as a non-commissioned officer. With the onset of World War I in 1914, the Ottoman Empire entered into the bloody conflict as a member of the Central Powers with Germany and Austria. Al-Husseini found himself in an inefficient army that, compared to the highly mechanized forces of the West, was lacking in leadership and modern equipment. He soon heard of the genocide of the Armenian people—one of the most horrendous incidents in the terrible global conflict.

In 1916, al-Husseini departed the Ottoman Army on disability leave and spent the rest of the war in Jerusalem. Angered by the decision of the Allied victors to deny Arab participation in the discussions leading to the Treaty of Versailles, al-Husseini was even more infuriated by the sudden increase of Jewish immigrants into British-controlled Palestine. An ardent anti-Semite who hated Jews with a deep fervor, he first came to the attention of the British in 1920 when he organized riots against Jews. Charged with inciting violence that left five Jews dead and another 211 injured, he fled to Syria and was sentenced _in absentia_ to 10 years’ imprisonment.

*The Grand Mufti’s Ascent*

In April 1921, however, British High Commissioner Sir Herbert Samuel, seeking to achieve some semblance of peace in the Holy Land, granted amnesty to Arab nationalists. Al-Husseini was allowed to return to Jerusalem, and the British officials—disregarding his long record of anti-Semitism—named him Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. This title was granted to a Sunni Muslim cleric, granting him oversight of the holy sites of Islam in Jerusalem, in particular the Al-Aqsa Mosque. For Sunni Muslims, the Grand Mufti is honored as the chief religious authority in Jerusalem. Notably, from the appointment of the first Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in the 1860s, the position was customarily filled by the governing power in charge of Jerusalem.

After the death of the first Grand Mufti, Mohammed Tahir al-Husseini, in 1908, the position stayed in the family when the Turks awarded the title to his son Kamil al-Husseini. Although the British assumed control of Jerusalem during World War I, Kamil al-Husseini remained in his post until his death in 1921, when the British decided that Kamil’s brother Hajj Amin would be an acceptable choice—despite his criminal past and known extremist ties. Al-Husseini remained as Grand Mufti under the British in spite of his activities and was removed only in 1948, when King Abdullah I of Jordan banned him from Jerusalem and named Hussam Al-din Jarallah as Grand Mufti.

Once in power in Jerusalem, al-Husseini was appointed by the British to head the newly established Supreme Muslim Council, created to prepare the way for Arab self-governance in Palestine. Al-Husseini took the chance given to him by the appeasement-minded British to call for the deaths of Jews and set out on a campaign of terror against the Jews in Palestine. In subsequent years, al-Husseini was involved in plots to massacre Jews, among them 60 Jewish immigrants in Hebron and 45 more in Safad in 1929. In 1936, he helped lead a rebellion in Palestine against the British. The following year the British condemned al-Husseini (though permitting him to retain the title of Grand Mufti), and he fled to Syria once more. From there he continued to plot against the British control over Palestine.

*Fascist Bedfellows*

Events outside the Middle East were presenting new opportunities for fanatics to find allies and possible patrons. The 1930s witnessed the rise of National Socialism in Italy under Benito Mussolini and in Germany under Adolf Hitler. Soon after the appointment of Hitler as German Chancellor in 1933, the German Consul-General in Palestine, Heinrich Wolff, expressed his belief that many Muslims in the Holy Land would be supportive of the new Nazi regime. This view was confirmed when Wolff met with al-Husseini and other radical local leaders. For al-Husseini, the anti-Jewish policies of the Nazis were appealing, and he hoped for German help in ousting the British from Palestine.

Al-Husseini deepened his outreach to the Nazis in 1937 when he met with two Nazi SS officers, including Adolf Eichmann, one of the architects of the Holocaust in Damascus, Syria. The SS representatives had been sent at the express order of Reinhard Heydrich, the deputy head of the SS under Heinrich Himmler and chief of SS Intelligence and the Nazi security services, including the Gestapo. Heydrich recognized immediately that al-Husseini was a potentially valuable asset for Nazi interests in the Middle East and worked to cultivate him.

Four years later, al-Husseini threw his support to a pro-Nazi revolt in Iraq against the British-backed prime minister, Nuri Said Pasha. Going to Baghdad, al-Husseini issued a _fatwa_ for a jihad against the British. Barely a month later, British troops ended the coup and occupied the country, whereupon al-Husseini fled to Iran. Although given sanctuary in the embassies of Japan and Italy, al-Husseini was again forced to be on the move when Iran was itself occupied by the British and Soviet armies. Al-Husseini made his way out of Iran with Italian diplomats who provided him with an Italian passport. He shaved his beard and dyed his hair to avoid being recognized by British agents and Iranian police.

Al-Husseini reached Rome in October 1941 and began serious discussions with the Mussolini regime. The result was twofold. First, he secured a meeting with Mussolini himself and then completed a practical agreement with the Italians. In return for Axis recognition of an Arab state of a fascist nature that would encompass Iraq, Syria, Palestine, and the Transjordan, he agreed to support the war against Britain. The Italian foreign ministry also urged Mussolini to grant al-Husseini one million _lire_.

*The Mufti Meets the Führer*

Over the next few days, al-Husseini drafted a proposed statement of an Arab-Axis cooperative effort by which the Axis powers would recognize the right of the Arabs to deal with Jewish elements in Palestine and in the other Arab countries according to their own interests. The declaration was approved by Mussolini and sent to the German embassy in Rome. Pleased with the declaration, al-Husseini was invited to Berlin as an honored and useful guest of the Nazi regime. He arrived in Berlin on November 6 and met with Ernst von Weizsäcker, German secretary of state under Nazi Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop. Two weeks later, he met with von Ribbentrop himself, a prelude to his triumphant reception on November 28, 1941, with Adolf Hitler.

At their meeting, al-Husseini requested German assistance with the Arab independence movement and Nazi support in the extermination of any Jewish homeland. For his part, Hitler promised to aid that liberation movement, but went still further, promising that the aim of Nazi Germany would be the elimination of all Jews living under British protection once such territories had been conquered. This was described by al-Husseini in his own memoirs:

Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish people in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: "The Jews are yours." (Ami Isseroff and Peter FitzGerald-Morris, "The Iraq Coup Attempt of 1941, the Mufti, and the Farhud")

*The Axis’ Kept Man*

For the Nazis, al-Husseini was an ideal propaganda tool, a powerful spokesman among radical Arabs, and an excellent instrument for their anti-Jewish campaign in Europe and in the Holy Land. Portrayed by the Nazis as the spiritual leader of all Islam, al-Husseini was given a grand formal welcome in Berlin. The official Nazi newspaper, _Volkischer Beobachter_, proudly published a photo of Hitler and al-Husseini, and Radio Berlin proclaimed on January 8, 1942 that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem had consented to take part in the effort against the British, the Communists, and the Jews.

Satisfied with his newly concretized relations with the Nazis, al-Husseini chose to remain in the service of the Axis and settled in Berlin in a lavish mansion that had been confiscated from a Jewish family. The Nazis paid him a monthly stipend of 62,500 _Reichsmarks_(approximately 20,000 dollars), payments that continued until April 1945, when only the fall of Berlin to the Red Army ended Hitler’s financial support. From his post, al-Husseini headed the Nazi-Arab Cooperation Section and helped build a network of German spies across the Middle East through his followers. Scheming for a desired dark future of Nazi-Islamic leadership, the Mufti founded an Islamic Institute in Dresden to provide training for young radical Muslims who would serve as chaplains for his field units and also head out across the Middle East and the world to sow the seeds of _jihadism_ and anti-Semitism.

*The Mufti’s Final Solution*

Scholars have long studied how actively engaged al-Husseini was in the implementation of the Holocaust. There is no question that he supported the aims of the Nazis in perpetrating genocide and believed perversely that all Arabs should join that cause. He declared on German radio on March 1, 1944: "Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you" (qtd. in Norman Stillman, "Jews of the Arab World between European Colonialism, Zionism, and Arab Nationalism" in _Judaism and Islam: Boundaries, Communications, and Interaction: Essays in Honor of William M. Brinner_).

According to the testimony of Adolf Eichmann’s chief deputy Dieter Wisliceny (who was hanged for war crimes) the Mufti played a role in encouraging the Final Solution and was a close friend and advisor to Eichmann in the Holocaust’s implementation across Europe. Wisliceny testified further that al-Husseini had a close association with Heinrich Himmler and visited the gas chambers at Auschwitz, where he exhorted the staff to be even more dedicated in its important work.

To assist the practical slaughter of Jews and Christians, al-Husseini built an army of Muslim volunteer units for the _Waffen-SS_ (the combat units of the dread SS) to operate for the Nazi cause in the Balkans. While the appeal for volunteers from among Muslims always struggled to meet the demands for new recruits, al-Husseini was able to organize three divisions of Bosnian Muslims who were then trained as elements of the _Waffen-SS_. The largest radical Muslim unit was the 13th _Waffen-SS Handzar_ ("Dagger") division that boasted over 21,000 men. They were joined by the Bosnian 23rd _Waffen-SS Kama_ Division and the Albanian Skanderbeg 21st _Waffen-SS_ Division. The Muslim _Waffen-SS_ forces fought across the Balkans against Communist partisans and then assisted in the genocide of Yugoslavian Jews and in the persecution and slaughter of Gypsies and Christian Serbs in 1944 and 1945. The brutality extended to Catholics as well, for the Muslim _Waffen-SS_ cut a path of destruction across the Balkans that encompassed a large number of Catholic parishes, churches, and shrines and resulted in the deaths of thousands of Catholics. By the end of the war, al-Husseini’s fanatical soldiers had killed over 90 percent of the Jews in Bosnia.

*Meanwhile, in Rome*

While al-Husseini carried out his decimation of Jews in Eastern Europe, the situation facing Jews in Rome in late 1943 was also grave. Following the deposition of Mussolini by his own people, Hitler invaded the country and briefly re-installed _Il Duce_. Then followed the first mass arrests of Italian Jews and a planned deportation of all Italian Jews to the death camps. Pope Pius XII protested these arrests and used the Vatican’s newspaper, _L’Osservatore Romano_, to speak out further against the Nazi campaign against the Jews of Italy. Among his many acts during this dangerous period, the holy pontiff sheltered 3,000 Jews at his summer residence, Castel Gandolfo, and hid thousands more in some 180 convents, monasteries, parish buildings, rectories, churches, and even in Vatican City itself. Through his leadership, Pius ultimately helped to save or rescue 80 percent of the Jews of Rome. In June 1944, the pontiff sent a telegram to Admiral Miklos Horthy, the leader of Hungary, and implored him not to proceed with the planned deportation of the country’s 800,000 Jews.

As Pius was risking his safety and that of the Church in Italy, al-Husseini continued to call for the extermination of all Jews. On November 2, 1943, as the Nazis tried to press forward with the roundup of Italian Jews, the Grand Mufti declared on German radio of the Jewish people, "They cannot mix with any other nation but live as parasites among the nations, suck out their blood, embezzle their property, corrupt their morals."

*The Untouchable Cleric*

With the collapse of the Third Reich, al-Husseini fled from Germany to Switzerland and then to Paris. Incredibly, he was not a target of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. He was sentenced merely to house arrest in Paris on the basis of charges made by the Yugoslav Supreme Military Court, which sentenced him to three years of imprisonment and two years of deprivation of civil rights because of his involvement in the atrocities throughout the Balkans. As for Nuremberg, despite the testimony of Eichmann’s aide, there was scant interest in the mufti because of his assumed immense sway in the Middle East.

With little effort, al-Husseini escaped from his comfortable house arrest. From there he traveled to Cairo, where he considered himself safe thanks to the patronage of Egypt’s King Farouk. Even with the fall of Farouk and the rise of Gamal Abdel-Nasser as head of Egypt in 1952, al-Husseini remained safe. His influence was felt throughout the Arab world, most so in galvanizing opposition to Zionism and the birth of Israel. He supported the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, was involved in the assassination of King Abdullah I of Jordan in 1951, and served as president of the World Islamic Congress. His last public appearance came in 1962 when he delivered a speech to that conference. He used his final opportunity to speak to the world to call for the ethnic cleansing of the Jews. He died in Lebanon in 1974, a beloved and revered figure among radical Muslims all over the world.

Hajj Amin al-Husseini’s legacy was to inspire generations of terrorists, Islamic jihadists, and such dictators as Saddam Hussein of Iraq. The foremost exemplar of his influence was a young terrorist and distant relative who became one of his most ardent students: Yasser Arafat, the future leader of the Palestinian Liberation Organization. Rabbi David Dalin—one of Pope Pius XII’s greatest defenders—offers a fitting final word:

The "most dangerous" cleric in modern history, to use John Cornwell’s phrase, was not Pope Pius XII but Hajj Amin al-Husseini, whose anti-Jewish Islamic fundamentalism was as dangerous in World War II as it is today . . . The grand mufti was the Nazi collaborator par excellence. "Hitler’s mufti" is truth. "Hitler’s pope" is myth. (_The Myth of Hitler’s Pope_, 137)

*SIDEBARS*

*Child Murderer*

In late 1942, Heinrich Himmler gave his permission for 10,000 Jewish children to be transferred from Poland to Theresienstadt with the eventual aim of allowing them to go to Palestine in exchange for German civilian prisoners, through the International Red Cross. The plan was abandoned, however, because of the protests of the Grand Mufti.

The following year, al-Husseini blocked the emigration of 4,000 Jewish children and 500 accompanying adults to Palestine that was proposed by the governments of Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary. The children were sent instead to the gas chambers.

*Further Reading*


Dalin, David and John Rothmann, _Icon of Evil: Hitler’s Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam_(Random House, 2008)
Elpeleg, Zvi, _The Grand Mufti: Haj Amin Al-Hussaini, Founder of the Palestinian National Movement_ (Frank Cass, 1993)
Morse, Chuck, _The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism: Adolf Hitler and Haj Amin al-Husseini_ (iUniverse, 2003)
Perlman, Moshe, _Mufti of Jerusalem_ (Pavilion Press, 2006)
Dalin, David, _The Myth of Hitler’s Pope_ (Regnery, 2005)
Matthew E. Bunson is a former contributing editor to _This Rock_ and the author of more than 30 books. He is a consultant for _USA Today_ on Catholic matters, a moderator of EWTN’s online Church history forum, and the editor of _The Catholic Answer_.


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> I  would agree, except that I don't accept Islam to be a "religion" .  Islam is  1400 year old CON JOB, which is a vile ideology, that began as a cover for Mo the pedophile and his immoral bandits.  It was simply a shield to protect them from the severe criticism they knew they would (and did) get.
> 
> Islam spread to become the largest example of just how far a major mistake can grow and flourish, when it has mass murderers pushing and spreading it.  So, after 270 million people around the world have been killed by this abomination, now today, we have Muslims all over the world, most of whom are Muslims only because their ancestors were forced to become Muslims.  Hell of a way for someone to call himself a Muslim.
> 
> ...


Of coarse it's irrational.  You fear a way, a certain group of people choose to worship? Not only is that irrational, it's also retarded and the mark of one major fucking pussy!


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Funny how Muslims joined forces with the nazis.
> 
> Amin Al Husseini Nazi Father of Jihad Al Qaeda Arafat Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood - Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage


It's even funnier how the Israeli's_ became_ Nazis!


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> Do you think you could sum this up in am paragraph or 2, rather than have us read something that go on for an hour ?  That is our format here, Short and sweet.


And just 4 posts later, *Roudy* gives you the answer.


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## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Funny how Muslims joined forces with the nazis.


As did Avraham Stern and other assorted Zionists.


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## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how Muslims joined forces with the nazis.
> ...



That's what happens when an illiterate idiot like you gets hold of Muslim spouting anti Semitic propaganda. 

 Islamism = Nazism. 
Palestinians = creators of IslamoNazism.


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## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how Muslims joined forces with the nazis.
> ...



The Mufti Islamic animal caused the death of half a million Jews and thousands of Christians.  

Just like your prophet was a mass murderer and a thief.  Go bang your head on the rug a little, Mohomod.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think you could sum this up in am paragraph or 2, rather than have us read something that go on for an hour ?  That is our format here, Short and sweet.
> ...



Actually that would be for you and your IslamoNazi brethren.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> The Mufti Islamic animal caused the death of half a million Jews and thousands of Christians


And Zionists displaced hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in 1948 when they created their apartheid state called Israel, remember, and the corrupt whores are still at in in Greater Jerusalem.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > The Mufti Islamic animal caused the death of half a million Jews and thousands of Christians
> ...



Arabs caused this from stsrt to end. The state of Israel is here to stay and will remain prosperous and strong. 

Was your conversion to Islam painful? 

Islam is for savages. True story.


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > The Mufti Islamic animal caused the death of half a million Jews and thousands of Christians
> ...


Better displaced than dead.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



no question------uhm---both hitler and stalin were Christians
and "culturally"---carried on a religious legacy of extreme anti -semtism.    The Nuremburg laws were a replay of the Justinian code----and Stalin was educated by Eastern Orthodox priests-------what is true is that they simply moved
that sense over to a new ideology.     HOWEVER do not imagine that  muslims are going to be inclined to let
the "WEST"  forget the policies of the Inquisition------which
was actually imported to the Americas and in some ways was
the basis for genocides against  native americans
HOWEVER----all that stuff is   OVER ------its remnants
remaining only in the hearts of persons like------challenger,
Penelope,   Georgie ---etc


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> The state of Israel is here to stay and will remain prosperous and strong


Maybe so, but the Jewish state is headed for the same sewer as your White South African brothers and sisters. Ready for the big SPLASH?


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > The state of Israel is here to stay and will remain prosperous and strong
> ...


Do you hear that, Israel?

Are you not afraid of the big bad Islamic boogeyman?

More like an Arab circle-jerk...


----------



## Vigilante (Nov 27, 2014)




----------



## Vigilante (Nov 27, 2014)




----------



## georgephillip (Nov 27, 2014)

Vigilante said:


>


----------



## Vigilante (Nov 27, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> >







Funny that most of your terrorists killing fucking muslim dogs, are other muslim dogs!...Syria, Iraq, Central African Republic... they are Jews and Christians?


----------



## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...


I don't believe you ever taught college.


----------



## toxicmedia (Nov 27, 2014)

protectionist said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...


Your posts. They're filled with delusions I know from personal experience to not apply to Muslims in general anywhere


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Actually that would be for you and your IslamoNazi brethren.


 _"I know you are, but what am I?"_

You're like a little kid!


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 27, 2014)

Roudy said:


> That's what happens when an illiterate idiot like you gets hold of Muslim spouting anti Semitic propaganda.
> 
> Islamism = Nazism.
> Palestinians = creators of IslamoNazism.


So you're calling a Holocaust survivor,_ "anti-Semitic"?_


----------



## Coyote (Nov 27, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Islam is an ideology that is as much  political as it is *religious. It comes with its own legal system*, the notion of the separation of religion and politics is alien to it, and it is totalitarian in nature as it demands of its followers that they wage continual war for dominance on this Earth. It is so totalitarian that the majority opinion even supports the killing of anybody who leaves it.



Hate to barge in on your talking points but as usual they have more in common with idiocy than accuracy.  Judaism also comes with it's own "legal system" but that doesn't seem cause issues with the separation of religion and politics.  Christianity doesn't have a "legal system" per se beyond biblical (they're much more free form in that regard) but they've certainly have had issues in the separation of religion and politics.  Many Muslims in the US don't have an issue with the separation of church and state.  Perhaps you ought to talk to some real people for a change.



> The neologism "Islamophobia" is but a cheap rhetorical device crafted by these very same totalitarians in order to make any criticism of their political ideology just as difficult for non Muslims as it is Muslims. Useful idiots living in the west pick up the cry, and use it against any who oppose the ideology by conflating the opposition to a political ideology with racism -- the ultimate taboo for unthinking leftist fundamentalists.



You think it's a cheap rhetorical device?  Is anti-Semitism one as well? What about racism?  Maybe we should just refer to people like you as bigots.



> *Islam IS being protected by much of the left*, and it IS extremely hypocritical and stupid  to defend all the knuckle-dragging backwardness under the banner of "progressive" or "liberal".  Islam is regressive and extraordinarily illiberal in nature, so we need some new terms here for the P.C. infected morons who play the game of identity politics so hard that they support the very antithesis of liberal.  They are leftists, certainly, but they are NOT liberal -- just lock-step conformists who are little different from the most bible-thumping religious fundamentalist of the right when it comes to their sheep-like approach to politics. .



Actually - I'm very proud to protect Islam.  Just like I'm proud to protect Christianity, Judaism, Athiesm - any religion in the US.  I'm perfectly willing to protect freedom of religion in this country and the right of everyone to worship free of persecution, within the laws of the United States and whether or not I agree with their doctrine.  I realize this is utterly alien to you.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > The state of Israel is here to stay and will remain prosperous and strong
> ...



....Said the convert to Islam on his daily jerkoff to the destruction of Israel session.  True to form.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 28, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > That's what happens when an illiterate idiot like you gets hold of Muslim spouting anti Semitic propaganda.
> ...



The clip was an idiot like yourself. 

The holocaust survivor?  More like an old guy who's got amnesia and other old-age related mental disorders.  That's not going to stop IslamoNazi assholes like you from exploiting him.  

You want proof?   The vast majority of Holocaust survivors do not think as he does, DIPSHIT.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 28, 2014)

Funny part that George seems to be oblivious to is that it's actually one Muslim nation after another that is collapsing and turning into failed Islamic terrorist shithole states.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> >



And who's fault is it that Muslims are slaughtering other Muslims by the tune of hundreds of thousands, like wild beasts?  Oh wait don't tell me....it's the Jooooooooos fault. Ha ha ha.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > In the 20th century Muslims accounted for far more murders. It's what they do.
> ...


Totally backwards post.  Hitler was no Christian in any way.  He was a mass murderer, totally opposite to Christian theology.  He was an ally to Muslims, held conferences with the Saudi Grand Mufti, and had Muslim soldiers fighting for him.





Muslim soldiers of the Handschar Waffen SS reading a pamphlet authored by Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini titled 'Islam and Judaism.' They wear distinctive Handschar tarboosh headgear, and insignias (curved-blade weapons and swastikas) on their lapels.

_"The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France".[1] _(Adolph Hitler)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
_








_


----------



## protectionist (Nov 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...


HA!  You're the one with Adolf, Mr. Grand Mufti.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 28, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > I  would agree, except that I don't accept Islam to be a "religion" .  Islam is  1400 year old CON JOB, which is a vile ideology, that began as a cover for Mo the pedophile and his immoral bandits.  It was simply a shield to protect them from the severe criticism they knew they would (and did) get.
> ...


Dumbass post.  They don't "worship" you boob, because it's not a religion.  And the fear is rational based on numerous jihadist attacks all ove rthe world including many in the USA, or have you been living in a closet since 2001 ?


----------



## protectionist (Nov 28, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think you could sum this up in am paragraph or 2, rather than have us read something that go on for an hour ?  That is our format here, Short and sweet.
> ...


----------



## Tom Sweetnam (Nov 28, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> Fascinating to watch as Islam, for all its modern-day anti-woman and anti-gay elements, exists as the preeminent PC-protected religion.



That's because the American left is scared shitless of Islam. They're cowards. They enshrine cowardice as some kind of redeemable human quality. They should walk down to their local mosque sometime and ask the moolah how much Islam respects cowards.  Muslims stop bullets just like any other human on earth. People get away with as much on this planet as other people let them get away with.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 28, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think you could sum this up in am paragraph or 2, rather than have us read something that go on for an hour ?  That is our format here, Short and sweet.
> ...



4 posts later, Roudy wasn't even on that page.  And you don't seem to be on the page of this whole thread.  (Or on other pages either)


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 28, 2014)

protectionist said:


> 4 posts later, Roudy wasn't even on that page.  And you don't seem to be on the page of this whole thread.  (Or on other pages either)


The point was your own bullshit hypocrisy!

4 posts after you complained about the length of someone else's post, *Roudy* chimes in with a practically "page long" response and_* you didn't say nothin'!*_

*Roudy's* post was about 4 times longer than the one you were complaining about and you didn't say anything about that, you fuckin' hypocrite!


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 28, 2014)

protectionist said:


> Dumbass post.  They don't "worship" you boob, because it's not a religion.  And the fear is rational based on numerous jihadist attacks all ove rthe world including many in the USA, or have you been living in a closet since 2001 ?


Islam is nothing but a way people pray. 

Many Christians in the US supported the Iraq war.  Does that mean Christianity is not a religion too?


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 28, 2014)

Roudy said:


> The clip was an idiot like yourself.
> 
> The holocaust survivor?  More like an old guy who's got amnesia and other old-age related mental disorders.  That's not going to stop IslamoNazi assholes like you from exploiting him.
> 
> You want proof?   The vast majority of Holocaust survivors do not think as he does, DIPSHIT.


Prove he wasn't a Holocaust survivor.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 28, 2014)

Vigilante said:


> Funny that most of your terrorists killing fucking muslim dogs, are other muslim dogs!...Syria, Iraq, Central African Republic... they are Jews and Christians?


*Christians and Jews are responsible for destabilizing Muslim states across the Middle East and North Africa, regime change ring any of your bells?*
"In Clark's book, _Winning Modern Wars_, published in 2003, he describes his conversation with a military officer in the Pentagon shortly after 9/11 *regarding a plan to attack seven Middle Eastern countries in five years*: 'As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with *Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and finishing off Iran.'"* 
Wesley Clark - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 28, 2014)

protectionist said:


> He was an ally to Muslims, held conferences with the Saudi Grand Mufti, and had Muslim soldiers fighting for him.


If Hitler was an ally to Muslims, why did he allow 60,000 German Jews to emigrate to Palestine between 1933-1936, bringing $100,000,000 ($1.6 billion in 2009 dollars) with them?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 28, 2014)

protectionist said:


> HA! You're the one with Adolf, Mr. Grand Mufti


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 28, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Georgie's got nothing new----he is repeating the islamo Nazi
propaganda I first heard more than 45 years ago


georgephillip said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> >





Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Islam is an ideology that is as much  political as it is *religious. It comes with its own legal system*, the notion of the separation of religion and politics is alien to it, and it is totalitarian in nature as it demands of its followers that they wage continual war for dominance on this Earth. It is so totalitarian that the majority opinion even supports the killing of anybody who leaves it.
> ...



     You are perfectly willing to justify the agenda of
      of ISIS  ----world wide caliphate shit


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 28, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> You are perfectly willing to justify the agenda of
> of ISIS ----world wide caliphate shit


I'm willing to place the blame for IS and its terror where it belongs: the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World. What's your problem, Hasbara?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Islam is an ideology that is as much  political as it is *religious. It comes with its own legal system*, the notion of the separation of religion and politics is alien to it, and it is totalitarian in nature as it demands of its followers that they wage continual war for dominance on this Earth. It is so totalitarian that the majority opinion even supports the killing of anybody who leaves it.
> ...




Coyote, you are either too stupid to understand the difference between an ideology and an ethnicity or you are conflating the two intentionally because you are pure filth on a mission to make criticism of an anti-humanist ideology impossible.

You seem to have an average enough level of intelligence, so my money is on the latter.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 28, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > You are perfectly willing to justify the agenda of
> ...



Right Georgie-----thanks for the refresher course----but not
necessary-----I already read the islamo Nazi literature----
way back when I was a child---circa  1960 and shortly thereafter
I came into contact with educated muslims from south east asia .
For those who do not know---the reason that all the Christians
jews and  Zoroastrians magically disappeared from Arabia ---more
than 1000 years ago is because   AL NABI AL KANZEER   was
responding to  WESTERN IMPERIALISM and VIOLENCE


----------



## Sally (Nov 28, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




Say, Kondor, have you ever heard a White person making a remark such as "your White  South Africa brothers and sisters?"  I always thought that Gaza George was a Louie Farrakhan-type of fellow.  Calypso Louie would make the same kind of remark like that.


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 28, 2014)

Sally said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


True. You may be onto something there. But... black, white, brown, red, yellow, whatever... he's a pro-Muslim, anti-American fifth-columnist or Quisling, to be sure; relatively harmless, beyond the context of naive, simple minds that are easily taken-in by such mental meanderings.


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



No Dogma, I just recognize your obvious agenda.  I look at my neighbors.  I look at the people I work with.  And I realize that your are full crap with your broad brushing of Muslims. Ethnicities don't have religious rules and laws they adhere to.  Judaism is a religion. Jews can be an ethnic group but Judaism is a religion and people can and do convert to it.  Christianity is without doubt not an ethnic group.  You're grasping at straws to justify your hate.  Other religions have systems of religious law.


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



No Rosie.  I'm not.  And never have been.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 28, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...





Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Ok----I got really bad news for you   "CALIPHATE"--
is a muslim IDEAL---------it is the reason ISLAM EXISTS-----
if you tell a muslim that a  CALIPHATE IS A REALLY LOUSY 
IDEA------the muslim might melt.    -----it would be like telling
KRUSCHEV   (spelling?)  in  1958     "COMMUNISM HAS NO 
FUTURE"      Try reading the Koran-----it is the CALIPHATE 
MANIFESTO


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The agenda of ISIS is not a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles.  It's a perversion of Islam.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 28, 2014)

[QUOTE="Coyote,

Ok----I got really bad news for you   "CALIPHATE"--
is a muslim IDEAL---------it is the reason ISLAM EXISTS-----
if you tell a muslim that a  CALIPHATE IS A REALLY LOUSY
IDEA------the muslim might melt.    -----it would be like telling
KRUSCHEV   (spelling?)  in  1958     "COMMUNISM HAS NO
FUTURE"      Try reading the Koran-----it is the CALIPHATE
MANIFESTO[/QUOTE]

The agenda of ISIS is not a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles.  It's a perversion of Islam.[/QUOTE]

Ok---thanks for telling me that-----NOW!!!       I interpret your statement in two
parts
   1) * The agenda of ISIS is not a world wide caliphate*  -----ok ---then what Is
             the agenda of ISIS and how large do you believe that the ISIS
             people would like the  CALIPHATE to be

   2) *the ISIS caliphate is designed to be a caliphate under
        Islamic principles----but under a perversion of Islamic
        principls*  ------ok----so under what principles is the isis
        caliphate supposed to function?-------and in what way do
        those principles constitute a perversion of islam?

                                 ps----you really need to read the koran


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Sorry, Coyote, but Muslims have been broad-brushing themselves now for decades.

People in The West lost much of any residual tolerance and sympathy for them after 9-11 and the London Tube Bombings.

Islam is a hybrid political-cultural-legal framework wrapped around a copycat religious core - a warrior religion - a religion far too easily usurped and twisted into violent manifestations at the drop of a hat and at the will of any street-corner mullah.

It is misogynistic and vengeful in nature, incompatible with Western life and democracy and philosophy and mores.

It is akin to an unwelcome red-headed step-child that nobody wants near them.

A great many good and honorable people - committed to egalitarianism at all costs - overlook the lack of tolerance and the lack of reciprocity and the savagery latent within Islam at both the scriptural and practice levels - and would rather see their own culture succumb to a scheming, conniving alien belief system, than to muster-up the courage to condemn one, so that toleration for the rest may be salvaged.

Western Islam-defenders see criticism and attacks upon Islam as an attack upon Western -style freedom of religion.

Western Islam-detractors see criticism and attacks upon Islam as cutting-out a cancer so that the rest of the body may continue to live.

And - to The West - Islam is, indeed, a poison pill - a toxic schema - a cancer, which the metaphorical antibodies of Western civilization reject as harmful to the host body.

If you were defending Sikhs or Hindus or Buddhists or Zoroastrians or Voodooism or Animism or Shamanism I would be standing right alongside you, as would many others.

But defending a poison like Islam, in the naive and misguided belief that you are defending a mere religion rather than the worldly and conquering scheme that it is - is both admirable (for its commitment to egalitarianism and freedom of religion, God luv ya) and extremely dangerous, given that you play into their hands in helping them to entrench.

We need look no further than the godawful mess that the British have gotten themselves into with their huge Muslim immigrant population, to know the truth of such an observation.

And, if taking a few brickbats from Islam-defenders is what it takes, to do my little part, to keep Washington, New York, Chicago, etc., from turning into Londonistan - or Detroit - then I'll just have to tough it out.


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> ...The agenda of ISIS is not a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles. It's a perversion of Islam.


Islam itself can rightfully be viewed as perverse, from several perspectives, but, beyond that...

If ISIS is a perversion of Islam, it is a perversion that easily gains traction with Muslims in the Street, so, I, and others, remain unconvinced, that this is an aberration, rather than a routine manifestation of Militant Islam, now that the domain is out from under the heel of European imperialists, and is re-awakening, and re-militarizing, across the board.


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



Terrorists are not representative of all Muslims.



> Islam is a hybrid political-cultural-legal framework wrapped around a copycat religious core - a warrior religion - a religion far too easily usurped and twisted into violent manifestations at the drop of a hat and at the will of any street-corner mullah.



Islam is a religion.  It's no more a "cultural-legal framework" than is Judaism which incorporates many similar rules and laws that govern it's members.

Far too easily usurpred and twisted?  Yes.  But no more so than Christianity.  A few centuries ago - it was Christianity.  Today, it is Islam.  Tomorrow - maybe the Athiests.



> It is misogynistic and vengeful in nature, incompatible with Western life and democracy and philosophy and mores.



No.  It isn't.  It depends entirely on the cultures involved. Islam - the Quran, offers plenty in the way of peace and values compatiable with modern ethics. If you're willing to look beyond cherry-picked quotes and hate sites.  Certainly, the Muslim population in the US and in much of Europe is quite compatible with western values.



> It is akin to an unwelcome red-headed step-child that nobody wants near them.
> 
> A great many good and honorable people - committed to egalitarianism at all costs - overlook the lack of tolerance and the lack of reciprocity and the savagery latent within Islam at both the scriptural and practice levels - and would rather see their own culture succumb to a scheming, conniving alien belief system, than to muster-up the courage to condemn one, so that toleration for the rest may be salvaged.
> 
> ...




_"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew._​
_Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. 

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me._"​


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> [QUOTE="Coyote,
> 
> Ok----I got really bad news for you   "CALIPHATE"--
> is a muslim IDEAL---------it is the reason ISLAM EXISTS-----
> ...





> The agenda of ISIS is not a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles.  It's a perversion of Islam.





> Ok---thanks for telling me that-----NOW!!!       I interpret your statement in two
> parts
> 1) * The agenda of ISIS is not a world wide caliphate*  -----ok ---then what Is
> the agenda of ISIS and how large do you believe that the ISIS
> ...



I have.  Not just cherry picked quotes.

I did not say the agenda of ISIS is not a world wide caliphate.  I said it's not a world wide caliphate *under Islamic prinicples*.  Most Muslim leaders and clerics have denounced it's self-proclaimed caliphate and denounced ISIS as unIslamic.


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > ...The agenda of ISIS is not a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles. It's a perversion of Islam.
> ...



I question that.

There is a lot in the media about fighters going over to join them and yes, it is a concern.  However in terms of total numbers it's a drop in the bucket of Islamic populations in those countries.  Does that make it a routine manifestation of Islam or an aberration?


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Good ol' Niemoller... heckuva guy... and he was entirely correct.

Then again, Niemoller wasn't dealing with a hybrid poison-pill religious toxin, devoted to ultimately usurping his own culture and spirituality and traditions and freedoms.

No sale, mine good colleague.


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Good question. And I don't have a definitive answer. But I DO know that - left unchallenged - tyranny overpowers the democratic, or, at least, the unprepared or delusional.

Neville Chamberlain was a good and honorable man, as well, but did not recognize The Beast until it was too late, and his civilization nearly collapsed, because of his naivete and good faith and delusions.

The pace and global reach of the world has accelerated a hundredfold since Chamberlain's time, and we can no longer afford to take such dangerous chances, flying in the face of common sense.

Rather like two airplanes, falling from the sky.

In Chaimberlain's time, the plane fell from 10,000 feet, with some time to recover and to avoid a crash.

In our time, that plane falls from 1000 feet, with far less time to recover and to avoid a crash.

We can thank instantaneous communications and high-speed transport and weapons of mass destruction and ballistic delivery systems for that decrease in response or recovery time, in the event that we make too great a mistake, in dealing with potentially hostile systems.

Especially systems that boast large numbers of adherents *already* sworn or inclined to Holy War (Jihad).


----------



## MaryL (Nov 28, 2014)

Islam actually  did more harm to this country than Japan did on December 7th 1941. Islam has spread so much  harm, and distrust, it makes a mockery of this entire thread, It makes mockery of honesty and integrity, and a fool of anyone that doesn't  understand that. Islam is the enemy of truth and the human spirit and it will destroy us human beings.


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Niemoller was dealing with a reality that is eternally re-emerging.  He's right. 

They hated Jews.
They hated Communists.
They hated Catholics.
They hate Muslims.

The "They's" might vary with the times but the rhetoric and willingness to demonize and believe propoganda never changes.


----------



## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Tyranny should be fought.  But innocent people should not be demonized because there are extremists who abuse their religion.

Once you start making decisions on which religion's are ok and which are not...where do you stop?  Where do you draw the line?  WHO decides?

No.  Bad stuff there.  You support values and you support those adhere to those value regardless of religion, ethnicity or skin color.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > [QUOTE="Coyote,
> ...



Ok---thanks for telling me that-----NOW!!!       I interpret your statement in two
parts
   1) * The agenda of ISIS is not a world wide caliphate*  -----ok ---then what Is
             the agenda of ISIS and how large do you believe that the ISIS
             people would like the  CALIPHATE to be

   2) *the ISIS caliphate is designed to be a caliphate under
        Islamic principles----but under a perversion of Islamic
        principls*  ------ok----so under what principles is the isis
        caliphate supposed to function?-------and in what way do
        those principles constitute a perversion of islam?

* ps----you really need to read the koran*[/QUOTE]

I have.  Not just cherry picked quotes.

I did not say the agenda of ISIS is not a world wide caliphate.  I said it's not a world wide caliphate *under Islamic prinicples*.  Most Muslim leaders and clerics have denounced it's self-proclaimed caliphate and denounced ISIS as unIslamic.[/QUOTE]

GOOD     I read that book-----at a time when I was an intellectual SPONGE---
more than 45 years ago-------and  ACEING---every college course I took-----
even calculus-----(well----I got a C first semester----but that was
the only C   I  ever got-----second semester I ACED -----(A very successful
engineer I know----college prof.    told me when I admitted I did a  C  first
semester-----"I would have been delighted with a C----I failed it"-----booky idiot
that I was------I was also an unintoxicated flower child-----loved
everyone-------well----a Koran fell into my hands-----so naturally I read the
whole thing-----cover to cover.     Lover of ancient literature that I was-------
I PONDERED.     "themes"     ???     character development???    "HERO"???
    anything?-----sure-----it is something----it is the legend which justifies the
    founding of an EMPIRE----complete with a royal line-----the CALIPHATE 
    MANIFESTO-----beats Remus and Rommulus.    I never cherry pick lines----
    nor do I do libels.   They are the hobbies of islamo Nazis.     I read WHOLE
    books
    Islam is not actually defined by the Koran-----Shariah is DERIVED 
    from the interpretation of the Koran ----by Islamic clerics----
    Islam is  SHARIAH.    Having read the Koran-----I did not SUDDENLY 
    KNOW SHARIAH-----I learned shariah from muslims and non muslims who
    survived that filth


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## Coyote (Nov 28, 2014)

MaryL said:


> Islam actually  did more harm to this country than Japan did on December 7th 1941. Islam has spread so much  harm, and distrust, it makes a mockery of this entire thread, It makes mockery of honesty and integrity, and a fool of anyone that doesn't  understand that. Islam is the enemy of truth and the human spirit and it will destroy us human beings.



Bullshit.  That is the most stupid piece of ignorant rhetoric I've ever heard.

What will destroy us as human beings is our own willingness to destroy each other out of bigoted fear and hatred.  It wasn't Hitler per se, who exterminated millions - it was the willingness of people to believe that others were less-than, or controlled the world, or were dangerous to the nation - a host of things that end up in a willingness to slaughter people like animals.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 28, 2014)

PS----btw-----"UNISLAMIC"   in muzzie world means---"I don't like that tribe---
it is the other tribe...not my tribe"     I learned all about it in 1971 when
SUDDENLY-----the entire MUSLIM population (mostly sunni) 
OF EAST BENGAL  aka  EAST PAKISTAN----became 
UNISLAMIC------by an edict of  TAKFIR  issued by sunni clerics in
west Pakistan.      By the BEAUTY OF SHARIAH---  the east Pakistani
girls became eligible for rape and raped they were----estimated 
1/4 million in a few short weeks. -----Most of my muslim friends at that time
were west Pakistanis-----who answered my questions with
"YOU DON't UNDERSTAND MY CULTURE"     (that's ok---coyote does)


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## Kondor3 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> ...The "They's" might vary with the times but the rhetoric and willingness to demonize and believe propoganda never changes.


In 9 scenarios out of 10, I believe that you would be correct, and, more than that, 'right', in an ethical sense, as well.

In 1 scenario out of 10, I believe that you would be incorrect, and, even ethically, wrong - this case - in Western dealings with Islam.

We are under no ethical obligation to protect and nurture a viper in our bosom that is programmed and hardwired to intolerance and conquest and misogyny and theocracy.

And that is exactly what Islam is - always has been - is now - and always will be.

It is a one-way ticket back to the 7th Century A.D., and The West does not want to go there.

The task then becomes to ensure that the viper gets the message and does not grow in our midst and is not allowed to harm us, as it would, if left unchallenged.

Men who will not take a stand and defend their own are doomed to become slaves.

The West - at large - will have to take a 'pass' on that one - sorry.


----------



## irosie91 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Islam actually  did more harm to this country than Japan did on December 7th 1941. Islam has spread so much  harm, and distrust, it makes a mockery of this entire thread, It makes mockery of honesty and integrity, and a fool of anyone that doesn't  understand that. Islam is the enemy of truth and the human spirit and it will destroy us human beings.
> ...



too bad mosques are now under surveillance-----way back when I visited----
extermination of  "THEM"   was a highly prized mosque ideal---now such ideas
are kept under wraps


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## Kondor3 (Nov 28, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Sorry, Coyote, but Islam is not suffering from the actions of its extremists.

Islam *itself* is an extreme.

There are, indeed, vast numbers of adherents who are entirely innocent of the ambitions of usurpation and conquest inherent in their holy writ.

Unfortunately, the poison always lurks within, embedded in the core or nucleus of their philosophy and history, susceptible to re-animation at the drop of a hat.

The foundation is rotten... the core is rotten... the nucleus is rotten... it is an alien and incompatible disease vector, attempting to infect the body politic of The West.

Western antibodies cannot be condemned for doing what is needed - fighting the infection.


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Nov 28, 2014)

protectionist said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...


[Hand raised] Excuse me, professor?  Shouldn't that be quantitative not quantitive?


----------



## toxicmedia (Nov 28, 2014)

protectionist said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...





CAPTCHATHIS said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...


I have the same problem with the use of the word preventive. Many say preventative...which isn't uncommon, yet not correct. A master mechanic would never make the mistake of telling you how much it'll cost to replace the "fuel injectorers"

And the water-arsenic analogy is sophomoric.

Quantitive...hmmm....or maybe he just has spell checker off


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Nov 28, 2014)

... or even sophomoronic


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## protectionist (Nov 29, 2014)

CAPTCHATHIS said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...


Yup.  TYPO. They happen.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 29, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
> ...



Or maybe you, like CAPTCHATHIS, are just cowardly using a simple typing mistake that comes from typing too fast, which happens when posters like you are flaming.  I've used the word quantitative many times and spelled it correctly, and if you were smart, you'd know that form is far less important than content.  However each word was spelled, the point remains the same.  Your comment about all cultures attempted to say that since all cultures have attacked and killed people, therefore they are all equally guilty.  That is absurd.

Islam has killed 270 million people around the world, a number that is not even approached by any nation, cult, religion, or ideology, and as the vile ideology that it is, it continues to do so now in 2014.  Catholics quit doing this centuries ago, and Jews never really did.  You've tried to make a point here, and you failed.  I corrected you before, and I'm doing it again now, and you are free to point out any of my spelling errors, whenever that gets you excited.


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## protectionist (Nov 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
> ...



I haven't read the writings of all these authors, but I have read Daniel Pipes' commentaries, and I've never found one that I disagreed with.  I would recommend his works.

I have read some of Robert Spencer's books and I recommend them very highly also.  He has a sarcastic tone of writing style that sometimes makes reading his books a little more difficult than most authors , but if one reads slowly, that compensates, and his content is excellent.  I especially recommend his book _*Stealth Jihad.*_

Frank Gaffney, is another who I have read.  I haven't kept up with all of his latest writings, but I did read *Shariah: The Threat To America, *and I have seen him on a number of TV shows, where he is spot on with exposing Islamists, and their Islamization attacks on America.

Also highly recommended are the books of Brigitte Gabriel (president of Act for America)  >>

1. * Because They Hate*

2.  *They Must be Stopped
*
Others I would recommend are :

*Infiltration*  by Paul Sperry

*Muslim Mafia*   by P.David Gaubatz and Paul Sperry  and,

*The Third Jihad* (DVD)   by Dr. Zuddhi Jasser


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## georgephillip (Nov 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> The agenda of ISIS is not a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles. It's a perversion of Islam.


And those who deliberately conflate the 19th century Ottoman royal family with caliphs from a millennium ago or more, Western "Warriors" and indoctrinated Muslims alike have revised the historical caliphate as an enduring institution, central to Islamic thought between the 7th - 20th centuries when, in fact, "the caliphate is a political or religious idea whose relevance has waxed and waned according to circumstance."

And that was before the CIA got involved

The Myth of the Caliphate Foreign Affairs


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## georgephillip (Nov 29, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> A great many good and honorable people - committed to egalitarianism at all costs - overlook the lack of tolerance and the lack of reciprocity and the savagery latent within Islam at both the scriptural and practice levels


How many of those "good and honorable" people overlooked a pair of murderous invasions/occupations that have maimed, murdered, incarcerated, and displaced millions of innocent Muslims across the Middle East and North Africa?

Islam has taken the place of Communism as the "Great Threat" to the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World, and keyboard warriors everywhere rise to condemn it.

Clean your own Christian/Capitalist sty before worrying anymore about the savage Muslims.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 29, 2014)

protectionist said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > protectionist said:
> ...


You have a huge causality problem with your assertion.

Islam doesn't kill people...people kill people.

You would need to prove that those people, would not have killed 270 million people, without Islam ever having existed. Which is not possible.

So many aspects of the trouble Muslim countries have pre-dated Islam.

Some times other cultures are just scary for Xenophobes.


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## Kondor3 (Nov 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > A great many good and honorable people - committed to egalitarianism at all costs - overlook the lack of tolerance and the lack of reciprocity and the savagery latent within Islam at both the scriptural and practice levels
> ...


I don't know.

Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.



> ...Islam has taken the place of Communism as the "Great Threat" to the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World, and keyboard warriors everywhere rise to condemn it...


Islam has condemned itself in Western eyes.

It needs no help from keyboard warriors.

Merely counterpointing, when its converts and adherents attempt to belittle The West as part of their Islamic propagandizing.



> ...Clean your own Christian/Capitalist sty before worrying anymore about the savage Muslims.


Nope.

We will continue to stay in your face and phukk with you, instead - it's called crushing the head of The Beast before it can grow big enough to harm us.


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## daveman (Nov 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
> ...


Of course.  The barbaric atrocities committed by radical Islamists has nothing to do with it.

I know this comes as a shock to someone who blames her personal failures on JOOOOS!!, but radical Islam is not compatible with civilization.


----------



## Penelope (Nov 29, 2014)

daveman said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > *Promoting Islamophobia
> ...



Oh a dig. Yes the Zionist have been promoting islam phobia, to make them look better. Zionism is what is wrong with the US and has caused ruin to many good nations.


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## daveman (Nov 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Oh a dig. Yes the Zionist have been promoting islam phobia, to make them look better. Zionism is what is wrong with the US and has caused ruin to many good nations.


Yes, irrational Jew-haters believe that, in contradiction to reality.


----------



## Penelope (Nov 29, 2014)

daveman said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Oh a dig. Yes the Zionist have been promoting islam phobia, to make them look better. Zionism is what is wrong with the US and has caused ruin to many good nations.
> ...



Prove otherwise, I wonder why Alexandria has the largest pop. of Jews in 3 BC, appears they didn't care about Israel then, so why now.

Oh PS: I don't consider myself a failure in life.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 29, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> You have a huge causality problem with your assertion.
> 
> Islam doesn't kill people...people kill people.
> 
> ...




Causality?

You are so naive and ignorant  as to think ideology does not motivate action?

I suppose it is easier for you to remain completely ignorant of the dictates of the ideology involved so as to defend it like you do, and it must also help to reduce any reaction to it to your own degree of simple-mindedness by calling it "xenophobia", but this amounts to nothing more than putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "nyah, nyah, nyah"

You don't want to know what Islam is all about, you are too afraid to know, you are too simple-minded to know and operate from the perspective that anybody who does know is a great big  bad poopoohead.

To think that here we have an ideology where the majority supports KILLING those who leave the ideology, and complete numb nuts are defending it because they somehow feel safer living in complete denial than by learning anything.


----------



## daveman (Nov 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


There is nothing I could present that would sink in for you.  Irrational hatred is, by definition, irrational.  

You came to the conclusion that Jews are ruining everything by a strictly emotional process, then went looking for altered and distorted "history" to corroborate.  

Would you care to explain how it's the Jews' fault that radical Islamists behead people?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 29, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> I don't know.
> 
> Why don't you ask those good and honorable people who defend Islam unconditionally? Such as Coyote.
> 
> .




   Speaking the truth will never shake the faith of the true believer, and the more one speaks the truth, the more the true believer will lie so as to prop up the faith.

When one operates from the premise that something absolutely MUST be defended at all costs, and does so with such a truly manic compulsion as to dominate their very existence, I would say there is something that runs deeper than mere faith, however.  The degree of dishonesty, zealotry and sheer dogged determination to post tens of thousands of postings across various boards in pursuit of this one agenda speaks of a very twisted psyche that needs a mission in order to feel validated in life.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 29, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Islam has condemned itself in Western eyes.


By objecting to the mass murder, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent Muslims? Muslim drones aren't blowing up your neighbors on the way to the mall, are they? Muslim troops aren't occupying your town, are they? Why would you imagine Muslims would respond to US terror without resorting to terrorism?


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Islam has condemned itself in Western eyes.
> ...


Does somebody else feel like dragging this ignorant Muslim up-and-down the basketball court for a while? I've got other stuff that needs attention this morning.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 29, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Does somebody else feel like dragging this ignorant Muslim up-and-down the basketball court for a while? I've got other stuff that needs attention this morning.








Don't get slammed dunked!


----------



## Roudy (Nov 29, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > A great many good and honorable people - committed to egalitarianism at all costs - overlook the lack of tolerance and the lack of reciprocity and the savagery latent within Islam at both the scriptural and practice levels
> ...



Ha ha ha. All the murderous invasions and occupations in the Middle East were committed by Muslims. And then the Jihadists headed towards Europe, which brought about the Crusades, to repel the Muslim invaders. 

So yes, as barbaric as the Crusades were, if not for Muslim savages invading Europe, they would not have occurred.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 29, 2014)

Penelope said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Wow, really?  Are you claiming that it's all the Zionists fault Islam is at war with the world?  Wasn't Thomas Jefferson at war with them?  Yup, Muslim animals were beheading American sailors and demanding ransom because "Allah told them" around 200 years ago. 

You seem Islam is nothing but Arab imperialism.  Throughout history, they have invaded lands, and forced Arab culture, language, and religion upon the indigenous people.  And in the process shredded their history and traditions to be replaced by Shariah filth.

Muslims sided with the Nazis, then the Soviets, and now they are the medieval barbarians who are against the civilized Western world. They have always been on the wrong side of history.


----------



## toxicmedia (Nov 29, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > You have a huge causality problem with your assertion.
> ...


I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.

There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.

I can believe my eyes, or I can believe you or Protectionist...who've never lived with Muslims.

Relax in your delusional hatred and generalizations.

If you're a Christian, people like you give those of us who practice it bad names.

In Syria, a few of my ex wife's younger cousins threatened to kill me because they'd been recruited by criminals. Her family was shocked and embarrassed.

Each culture has it's vulnerable, homicidal, brainwashed, misinformed, or angry resentful people. They're easy to recruit

You're ours.

I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?

When did that ever become right?...or something happy, successful, and contented God fearing people do?

Answer: They don't.

I'll pray for you both, even though I know I'm setting myself up to hear all about how you neither want, nor need me to.


----------



## toxicmedia (Nov 29, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know.
> ...


Don't look now, but it's you that isn't speaking the truth.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 29, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


That's a contradiction that doesn't make sense.  The agenda of Islam is, and has been since its beginning, a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles.


----------



## protectionist (Nov 29, 2014)

xxx


----------



## protectionist (Nov 29, 2014)

toxicmedia said: ↑
_"I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?
When did that ever become right?..[_QUOTE]


Numerous times. On September 11, 2001, for one. When Nidal Hasan killed 13 soldiers and wounded 35 other for another. When John Allen Muhmmad (the Beltway Sniper) killed 19 people for another. When Hesham Mohamed Hadayet killed 2 people at LAX. When the Tsarnaev boys killed people in the Boston Marathon bombing. When Ali Muhammad Brown killed Americans. When a woman was beheaded in Moore, OK. When Richard Reid tried to kill air travelers on a plane with a bomb in his shoe. When ISIS killed James Foley and other Americans. When the Times square bomber, the Underwear bomber, the Christmas tree bomber, and all the rest of these lunatics tried to kill Americans. etc etc etc

List of Islamic Terror Attacks in America


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## MaryL (Nov 30, 2014)

I promote ISLAMAPHOBIA. Damned straight. Muslims  need to get their house in order here. 9/11 doesn't turn me on to Islam, you ignorant arrogant  bastards.


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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Depends where you lived in the Middle East, and under what regime. For example, if under a secular dictator, then there was very little tolerance for Islamists and Islamic intolerance. On the other hand if you happened to live in a country who's name was prefaced with "Islamic republic of............",  right there you know you're around some pretty medieval shariah Neanderthals who need little or no brainwashing or "recruiting", as they're already off their rockers.  So it seems you learned very little from your short time in the Middle East.


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## Tom Sweetnam (Nov 30, 2014)

Mineva said:


> When you say anything bad about Israel, its called as "anti-semitism".  (blames you)
> When you say anything bad about Islam, its called as "Islamaphobia", not "anti-Islamism". (blames Islam)
> This is how the media drives you like a shepherd . They seize your subconscious with the word games and you do whatever they want unconsciously.



Read the "Newspeak" preamble to Orwell's 1984, or his essay 'Politics and the English Language'. You can find them online if you dig a little bit. If you can control a person's available vocabulary, you can control how they think.


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## georgephillip (Nov 30, 2014)

protectionist said:


> That's a contradiction that doesn't make sense. The agenda of Islam is, and has been since its beginning, a world-wide caliphate under Islamic principles


A small fraction of the world's 1.7 billion Muslims support radical Islam primarily because they are smart enough to notice how the US and other western states fund the extremists whenever it suits their purpose. The agenda you should worry about is the one that's currently redrawing old borders in the Middle East in pursuit of a New World Order; radical Islam is simply another pawn in that Great Game, and so are you and I.


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Don't look now, but it's you that isn't speaking the truth.




 So, when I speak of the attitudes towards apostasy in Islam, I am lying?

Do you need 900,000 references, or will a few thousand do?


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

Much easier to turn towards violence, intolerance, and terror, when Mohammad the prophet of Islam was a terrorist himself who preached violence and hatred towards the unbelievers.  That's the bottom line. Islamic terrorists are simply devout Muslims following the Koran and emulating their prophet.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

protectionist said:


> toxicmedia said: ↑
> _"I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?
> When did that ever become right?..[_QUOTE]
> 
> ...


Right, and you take what a minority of Muslims do as justification for some homicidal neo-crusade.

Are you really an advocate for a solution, however imperfect the results might be?

Or are you indulging the anger and resentments that rattle around in your psyche?


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## georgephillip (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> That's the bottom line. Islamic terrorists are simply devout Muslims following the Koran and emulating their prophet.


*Jews and Christians are no different:*
"So Moses and his army killed women and children. 

"Moses broke the 6th commmandment, thou shall not kill ANYONE. 

"Or I see, when its in war it okay? 

"Yet when Muslims say the 6th commandment is followed, but in war its different, Christians say nooooo. 

"Either way, The Quran does not say kill women and children, I CHALLENGE ANY CHRISTIAN TO BRING THE VERSE RIGHT NOW. 

"We see it in your Bible, one of your greatest prophets killing women and children by God's permission, meaning Jesus allowed it! 

"So hence Jesus was responsible for killing women and children, and so was Moses so according to the Christians own argument, Moses cannot be a prophet since he killed. 

"Note Moses and his army did this to many cities, verse 37 says there was not one city which was strong enough in the plural sense,hence up to 6 or 7 cities were destroyed with its women and children? 

"What is the Christian response?"

*What's the Zionist response?

The Terror in the Bible.*


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> ]I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.
> 
> There isn't anything you can tell me about Muslims.
> 
> ...




 If your conclude that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer, you quite obviously lack the brain power necessary to be worth any consideration at all.

 You are correct, however, in my neither want nor need your grandstanding,  phony offer of prayers.  I am an agnostic since I have enough humility to realize I can only know what I actually know, but if I were a Christian, I would certainly reject your making this insincere offer into such a public spectacle as the stuff of Pharisees since Jesus most definitely tried to instruct his followers away from that sort of farce.  If you are a Muslim, I imagine I would not expect any honesty to begin with due to all the instructions you receive in regards to the Kaffirs, not to mention support for lying, but you can spare the phony theatrics here as well, o.k.?


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
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You've never been there, yet you try to tell me how I should feel about having been there.

Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

That's where I was.

I've had many lengthy conversations with people in parts of those countries about politics, because Turks, Kurds, and Arabs love to talk politics over some tea.

What percentage of the following demographics do you think practice your description of Islam in it's malignant form?

Kurds, all regions:

Sunni Muslims,

Alevi Muslims:

Shiite Muslims:


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## Billo_Really (Nov 30, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> If your conclude that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer, you quite obviously lack the brain power necessary to be worth any consideration at all.
> 
> You are correct, however, in my neither want nor need your grandstanding,  phony offer of prayers.  I am an agnostic since I have enough humility to realize I can only know what I actually know, but if I were a Christian, I would certainly reject your making this insincere offer into such a public spectacle as the stuff of Pharisees since Jesus most definitely tried to instruct his followers away from that sort of farce.  If you are a Muslim, I imagine I would not expect any honesty to begin with due to all the instructions you receive in regards to the Kaffirs, not to mention support for lying, but you can spare the phony theatrics here as well, o.k.?


Jesus said to love thy neighbor; that includes Muslims.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Kondor3 said:
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How can you be sure your opposition to a faith you're entirely unexposed to, in person, is "the truth".

You're demonizing entire populations in a truly manic compulsive way. When you demonize somebody, or something, you can no longer fight them effectively without a military solution.

Protectionist, and possibly you, have posted hundreds, if not thousands, of posts across various boards with your anti Islamic agenda.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
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> > Don't look now, but it's you that isn't speaking the truth.
> ...


I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > ]I lived in the middle east with Sunni and Alevi Muslims for years. My ex wife was an Alevi Muslim.
> ...


I have never concluded that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer. That's all you.

I've already prayed for you and Protectionist, but not for your benefit. I did it so your intellectually repulsive intolerance doesn't corrupt me and cause some of my own. I did it in private as well.

I'm not Muslim, I'm a Presbyterian.


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## Kondor3 (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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This is an age of instantaneous and broad communications, on a global scale.

Personal experiences represent a very narrow microcosm as a sampling base.

What you - personally - saw or experienced in your travels - and most especially if that was some time ago - has very little bearing upon the nature of the world at large, as it is presently constituted,  nor does it lend you any particular and overwhelming credibility in discussions of such matters, so save your _Well-Traveled-Soul_ speech for the locker-room.


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.



 You try to claim some sort of authority based upon the fact you have met a few Muslims, yet are abjectly ignorant as to the various punishments for apostasy in Islam.

What is wrong with this picture, here, folks?


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## Dogmaphobe (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> I have never concluded that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer. That's all you.
> 
> I've already prayed for you and Protectionist, but not for your benefit. I did it so your intellectually repulsive intolerance doesn't corrupt me and cause some of my own. I did it in private as well.
> 
> I'm not Muslim, I'm a Presbyterian.




Now, you are simply lying. You insinuated that I wanted to kill Muslims. Your exact words were "I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?".  

You can claim all you want by way of your own religion, but you are certainly opposing Jesus' actual teachings on the subject.  The term as usually transcribed to portray this sort of stunt you are trying to pull is "play actor". 

It shouldn't be difficult to find since it is quite early on in the N.T, but I would be happy to point it out to you since it does not appear that you have ever read it.


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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First of all those were all secular countries, with the exception of Iran, which was secular during the Shah's time. Although in secular countries most people don't subscribe to "radical islam",  it is only because the leadership doesn't allow the Islamists to preach true Islam which in my opinion is what "radical Islam" is.  And even in those secular countries, there is still a lot of religious based prejudice towards people of other faiths, especially Jews. They are considered dirty and not to be trusted.  In fact, the intolerance is based on the teachings of the Koran where Jews and Christians were considered second class citizens with less rights. Hence Dhimmitude which was Islamic apartheid which many Muslim countries practice to this day. 

You are not the only one who's lived there and is familiar with the culture.  Just because you tied the knot with a Muslim it doesn't absolve Islam or the rampant hatred and intolerance in Muslim societies.


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths, the Muslim world seems to be all about hatred and violence, especially towards non Muslims.  Does that cover each and every Muslim individual? No, but Muslims generally are born and raised in traditional religious families, and therefore are generally taught to hold certain beliefs towards others. This is an inescapable fact.


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## Billo_Really (Nov 30, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> You can claim all you want by way of your own religion, but you are certainly opposing Jesus' actual teachings on the subject.


I wouldn't go there; you don't have a clue as to what Christ was about.


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## Billo_Really (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths...


As you so clearly demonstrate?


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps you have it upside down and ass backwards. Whereas the Western world exhibits tolerance, coexistence and equality with all people's and all faiths...
> ...



Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions,  without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it.  Unlike Muslim countries.


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## irosie91 (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
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your rant is idiotic------where in the USA are muslims being killed------go right ahead and
tell me about that  epidemic of-----PULLED HEAD RAGS-----watta joke


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## Billo_Really (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions,  without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it.  Unlike Muslim countries.


And you're a fucking hypocrite; as well as one of the biggest hate-mongers at this website.


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Hey asswipe, this is a free country, you get to state your opinions,  without being put in prison, tortured and killed for it.  Unlike Muslim countries.
> ...



Actually hate mongerer would be you Billy the Bully.   99% of your posts of full of hate and lies.  You are a joke. But hey, even hate mongerers like you get to have their say in the US and Israel, unlike any of the various Muslim shitholes where you are killed and tortured for your words, take your pick.


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## Coyote (Nov 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> georgephillip said:
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I don't defend Islam "unconditionally".  *That is a lie.*

*I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad.*

Feel free to continue your hate mongering.


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## Kondor3 (Nov 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


> ...I don't defend Islam "unconditionally". That is a lie...


It is the truth insofar as I have observed to date.

It is entirely possible that I have missed instances of you _not_ coming to the aid of Islam, but I speak of the impression that you give to your colleagues.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong... but if I am, I have yet to see it, therefore, it is an 'inaccuracy' rather than a 'lie'.

If I knew differently, but said so anyway, that would be a lie... but that is not what happened here.

If I have mispoken, you have my sincere and public apologies, but I am not yet convinced that such an apology is in order.



> ...I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad...


There is some immediately discernible truth in this statement.

And that is your weakness in this context... Islam is part religion, part cultural diktat, part legal system, part expansionist creed - far more prone to violence under its aegis in the modern age than any of its mainstream counterparts... differences that make it dangerous... differences that make it toxic to and incompatible with The West.

Your inability to see the truth of that, and your strident insistence that Islam is merely a religion on a par with and no more threatening than others, is a naive and dangerous view.

One that should be counterpointed vigorously, and often.



> ...Feel free to continue your hate mongering.


It is not hate-mongering to vigorously warn against a dangerous and hateful creed that is toxic to our own culture and values and mores and which connives at weakening us.

If that requires having to dodge a few brickbats from time to time, then, what the hell - it's worth it.


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## Coyote (Nov 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Coyote said:
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> > ...I don't defend Islam "unconditionally". That is a lie...
> ...



As far as YOU have observed.  



> It is entirely possible that I have missed instances of you _not_ coming to the aid of Islam, but I speak of the impression that you give to your colleagues.



I no longer give a flying F about what impression I give my "colleagues" because I've long realized they will see what they WANT to see and nothing I say will make any difference.  Wiser people than I stay away from these discussions and I understand why.

Out of all the anti-Muslim threads here - how many do I actually participate in?  A couple to a handful.  So much for impressions - they don't count for much in terms of accuracy.



> If I am wrong, then I am wrong... but if I am, I have yet to see it, therefore, it is an 'inaccuracy' rather than a 'lie'.
> 
> If I knew differently, but said so anyway, that would be a lie... but that is not what happened here.
> 
> If I have mispoken, you have my sincere and public apologies, but I am not yet convinced that such an apology is in order.



What ever.



> > ...I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad...
> 
> 
> There is some immediately discernible truth in this statement.
> ...



Islam is a religion.  It is no different than Judiasm in regards to cultural diktat or legal system.  The main difference is - Judaism comprises a tiny tiny minority of adherents.  Christianity lies between the two and most certainly has it's expansionist creed and share of violence.  Yet they are all religions.  Islam has shown itself to be compatible with the west - just look at Islam in our own country.  In Canada.  In many parts of the west despite the rabid rhetoric of people like Pamela Geller etc - there is little actual data to show that the majority of the Muslim population in those countries do not support western ideals.  They may not be "liberal" - but they support laws and democratic underpinnings of those countries.



> Your inability to see the truth of that, and your strident insistence that Islam is merely a religion on a par with and no more threatening than others, is a naive and dangerous view.



Your truth is not necessarily THE truth.

Islam is merely a religion.

Beyond that - are there problems?  Yes, I agree.  Too much of the Muslim world is set in a medievil mindset and culture that is incompatable with modern ideals.  The rise of Islamic Extremism is a serious concern - and, I might add, a serious concern TO the Islamic world in general. But your "truth" would paint this complicated problem in black and white/good and evil - and it isn't.  There is the religion as whole, which is no different than any of the other major religions and that varies considerably as to how it is practiced and viewed by it's adherents around the world (evidenced by PEW research) and there are the problems that exist among elements of that religion and the cultures behind them.  Recognizing this is not "unconditionally" defending Islam - it's preventing an "unconditional" hatred of a religion that would see it's followers marginalized, penalized, deported, or stript of their legal rights for no other reason than that of faith.



> One that should be counterpointed vigorously, and often.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Extremism is dangerous and fundamentalism, regardless of faith - is often at odds with modern ideals.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> toxicmedia said:
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Having lived there between 2000-2004.

It's understandable that you'd resist what I'm telling you, because you want to feel like you're right.

I said nothing about the world at large, only what I know about the MANY Muslims in Turkey, and parts of Iran, Iraq, and Syria that I spoke with.

The standing of my credibility with people who've never been to the middle east, regarding Muslims in the middle east, couldn't be less important to me. You can either believe me, or not.

I think the misleading impression some get from my point comes from a ego driven fear of being mistaken.

It's quite simple...and it goes like this:

For every 10 people, anywhere, there are 6 ordinary people trying to live their lives according to their own unique customs and traditions. There is also 1 Saint, 1 Criminal, 1 Leader, and 1 Loser. That's what I've found to hold true, of the people I've met, in Asia, the middle east, and America. It's that simple

The ideology people who patronize and/or fund anti Muslim interests in America promote, is not dissimilar to how Muslim extremists/criminals recruit the marginalized in that region.

The scope of the success of that type of recruiting is enhanced when poverty, disenfranchisement, and religious extremism are present.

The relative success street gangs have in areas in the US, come from the same recruiting tactics.

Protectionist and that other guy's position seems to demonize Islam, and Muslims, without much exception. I can't get them to offer percentages of Muslims they think are too far gone, and deserve to be killed


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## Coyote (Nov 30, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> This is an age of instantaneous and broad communications, on a global scale.



There is a lot to be said about this, most notably that having access to such instantaneious and broad communications does not imply accuracy by any stretch of the word.

Instantanious means - without pause for reflection, critique, research or a regard for truth.  "Broad communications" means anyone can say anything with the same degree of "believability".  It means accountability is non-existant.  Rumors become "fact" in a the blink of an eye and a million circulated "hoaxes".  Critical thinking is not imparted with each rendition.  A press of the button circulates the word around the world.

It also means that each of us can choose our news sources and, if we want, create our own echo chambers of news and opinions that reflect our own views.  We don't have to be challanged if we don't want to and we can easily have our own views affirmed without discomfort.

I think it's good to be challenged and I'll admit my views have been challanged, I've questioned some of my assumptions, and come through with a broader perspective in some areas of debate - most notably in IP.  In that debate - I've also gained insight from people (on both sides of the issue) who have actually traveled or lived there.  I don't always agree, because all of us have our bias' but their personal experiences add a depth that might otherwise be lacking.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't hear much from Muslims about apostasy. This sounds like yet another bit of anti Muslim hysteria...common amongst arm chair anti Muslim "self described" scholars in the US, which bear little if no resemblance to what I experienced there.
> ...


I don't claim to be an authority on Muslims. I've simply stated my experience, and how what some are saying is contradicted by my experience.

I have tried to delegitimize what you offer, because you've never been to the middle east. If you'd have been there, and everything you offer didn't come straight out of information supplied by anti Muslim interests in the US. I would give it more consideration.

I didn't pay much attention to the extremists I met in the middle east, and most middle easterners didn't either. They thought they were crazy criminals.

I'm not going to pay much attention to what you've been told by extremists here either, and thank God...most Americans don't either.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > I have never concluded that anybody who resists a totalitarian political ideology with a thin veneer of religion is a killer. That's all you.
> ...


You never answered my question...which was "I bet you'd love to go kill some Muslims, right?"....that's what that little question mark thingy is all about.

Jesus taught me tolerance.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
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> > Roudy said:
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I have no idea what you're talking about, and I didn't hear any Muslims in the middle east talk about that.


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
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I've seen intolerance on both sides, usually with about the same frequency.

I just seen more lawlessness in general in rural middle eastern towns because those rural people tend to be more conservative, religious, and less exposed to the outside world.

The facts you offer are contradicted by my experiences, thus, easily escapable


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## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Billo_Really said:
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And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
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Yeah, that's better, you have no idea what I'm talking about. Maybe if you LOOKED Muslim but without them knowing was actually a Jew, then they'd tell you they realły feel about Jews and Christians. 

Also, you claim to have lived in five Muslim countries in in four years?  

That sounds like some serious bullshit to me.


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## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
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Anger?  Hardly. But have you read some of Billy the bully's posts?  There's always anger, profanity, and aggression in all his posts.


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## Kondor3 (Nov 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


> ...As far as YOU have observed. .


As I freely admitted.



> ...I no longer give a flying F about what impression I give my "colleagues" because I've long realized they will see what they WANT to see and nothing I say will make any difference. Wiser people than I stay away from these discussions and I understand why...


Have you considered the possibility that the reason why nothing you say is making a difference is not because your counterparts want to see a certain thing, but because they, too, have carefully considered this state of affairs, and are convinced of the accuracy of their own conclusions?



> ...Out of all the anti-Muslim threads here - how many do I actually participate in?  A couple to a handful.  So much for impressions - they don't count for much in terms of accuracy...


I don't keep track. I spoke based upon impressions, which are, by definition, subject to error.



> ...What ever...


Indeed.



> ...Islam is a religion. It is no different than Judiasm...


Therein lies the core of the dispute - and all the automatic gainsay in the world will not prove you nor I to be right.



> ...Christianity lies between the two and most certainly has it's expansionist creed and share of violence...


The difference being that Jesus of Nazareth did not voice such a creed nor encourage violence and warfare.

Those were accretions and grotesque rationalizations added to the nuclear dogma of that belief system in its early centuries, and were not authorized or advanced by either its Founder nor in its successor holy writ - the New Testament.

Islam - on the other hand - had such permissions to wage war and to commit violence and to lie - voiced and advanced by the Founder himself, and these permissions and encouragements and examples and criteria absolutely saturate its holy writ.



> ...Yet they are all religions...


Nobody argues that Islam does not have a strong religious component.

What distinguishes it from its counterparts are (1) its propensity for the encouraging of violence and (2) its cultural diktats and legal scheme - still operative and extant.



> ...Islam has shown itself to be compatible with the west - just look at Islam in our own country. In Canada.  In many parts of the west...


Yes. We all see what happens within Islamic immigrant communities, with respect to the suppression and oppression of women, their quiet demeanor until their population reaches a tipping point, after which they start making demands for local cultural changes and the imposition of Sharia, their strident condemnation of our own culture and practices and mores, and their support of Islamic activism and violence in other parts of the world. And one need look no further than the United Kingdom or Germany or France or other parts of Europe, to see how uncontrolled immigration of and accommodation for Islamic newcomers tends to turn the neighborhood or town or region into a bastion of intolerance.



> ...despite the rabid rhetoric of people like Pamela Geller etc - there is little actual data to show that the majority of the Muslim population in those countries do not support western ideals. They may not be "liberal" - but they support laws and democratic underpinnings of those countries...


Screw the hard data.

We need to look no further than David Cameron's or Angela Merkel's observations that multiculturalism (for that, read, accommodation of Muslims) is not working, and that the newcomers and their behaviors are beginning to pose a threat to those countries and cultures.



> ...Your truth is not necessarily THE truth...


Correct.

But my money is on my truth, rather than yours, with respect to Islam.



> ...Islam is merely a religion...


No it's not.

It's a warrior's creed. It's a medieval cultural and legal straight-jacket that encourages theocracy and cultural regression and retardation, and the grotesque repression of women.



> ...Beyond that - are there problems? Yes, I agree. Too much of the Muslim world is set in a medievil mindset and culture that is incompatable with modern ideals. The rise of Islamic Extremism is a serious concern - and, I might add, a serious concern TO the Islamic world in general...


When they (1) experience a profound and substantive Reformation and (2) reach a tipping point with Old vs. New within their own domains and (3) renounce religious warfare and violence and (4) forswear the intolerance for other religions and cultures that is so deeply ingrained within their belief system - then wake me up, and I'll take another look.



> ...But your "truth" would paint this complicated problem in black and white/good and evil - and it isn't...


Correct. It's not black and white. There are, indeed, grey areas, including the struggle of 'modern' Muslims to reconcile their faith with the modern world. But they are vastly outnumbered by co-religionists whose philosophical and cultural and spiritual minds are still stuck in the 7th Century or thereabouts.



> ...There is the religion as whole, which is no different than any of the other major religions...


Again, another restatement of this core difference.... I say that it is different... right down to its roots and foundation.



> ...and that varies considerably as to how it is practiced and viewed by it's adherents around the world (evidenced by PEW research) and there are the problems that exist among elements of that religion and the cultures behind them...


Nolo contendere... no contest.



> ...Recognizing this is not "unconditionally" defending Islam - it's preventing an "unconditional" hatred of a religion that would see it's followers marginalized, penalized, deported, or stript of their legal rights for no other reason than that of faith...


Your insistence upon treating Islam in a manner identical to that of any other religion echoes the very best traditions of the American Spirit and its devotion to egalitarianism at-law for everyone, regardless of their beliefs

The only flaw in that, in the context of Islam in The West, is a failure to recognize the hostility and danger emanating from this hybrid belief system, and the cynical behavior of its adherents in The West, to utilize our own tolerance and goodwill, in order to better entrench their own intolerant and hostile practices, safe under the shield we provide them.



> ...Extremism is dangerous and fundamentalism, regardless of faith - is often at odds with modern ideals.


Agreed.

Which is why The West must keep such a close eye on Islam, and why we must not delude ourselves about its nature - thinking it harmless and compatible, when it is not.


----------



## Roudy (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



I don't think your experience compares to mine.  So I wouldn't go around bragging about experience. You lived in secular dictatorship countries in a shielded manner.  Since you're a foreigner you obviously didn't speak their language, probably just enough to get around. So, in other words your "experience" is of no real value, the equivalent of a tourist.  If you want to know how life was really like for minorities in Muslim countries, I suggest you get in touch with some Christians or Jews who were born and raised there, and had to leave.   Which is what I am.


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> ...Having lived there between 2000-2004...



That's nice.



> ...It's understandable that you'd resist what I'm telling you, because you want to feel like you're right...


Spare me the patronizing cushion.

I have no doubt that you are faithfully relaying the conclusions that you drew from personal experience.



> ...I said nothing about the world at large, only what I know about the MANY Muslims in Turkey, and parts of Iran, Iraq, and Syria that I spoke with...


I was not dwelling upon the world at large, merely reflecting that the world is much smaller now, and that a microcosm of personal experience is easily offset with good attention to news and multiple assessments of current events and participants and motivations and such.



> ...The standing of my credibility with people who've never been to the middle east, regarding Muslims in the middle east, couldn't be less important to me. You can either believe me, or not...


Your credibility in such matters is substantively identical to those reasonably well-read on the subject.



> ...I think the misleading impression some get from my point comes from a ego driven fear of being mistaken...


Or, alternatively, in the suspicion that your conclusions are the result of myopic personal experience and not sufficient for dealing with topic on the macro level.



> ...It's quite simple...and it goes like this: For every 10 people, anywhere, there are 6 ordinary people trying to live their lives according to their own unique customs and traditions. There is also 1 Saint, 1 Criminal, 1 Leader, and 1 Loser. That's what I've found to hold true, of the people I've met, in Asia, the middle east, and America. It's that simple...


Oh, heck, I'll go you one better, and say that 90 out of 100 are ordinary people, trying to live their lives, with 1 saint, 1 criminal, 1 leader, 1 loser, and 6 radicals ripe for the picking.

Trouble is, within the domains of Islam, those 6 Radicals practice a belief-system whose Founder gave his followers permission to wage war and to commit violence and to lie under various circumstances, and these permissions are repeatedly reinforced and outlined in the holy writ of that belief system, which makes it more prone and susceptible to violence and which promises its warriors an automatic free elevator ride to Paradise and fleshy delights if they should die in the prosecution of such a war or struggle.



> ...The ideology people who patronize and/or fund anti Muslim interests in America promote, is not dissimilar to how Muslim extremists/criminals recruit the marginalized in that region...


The difference being that the American anti-Muslim folk aren't calling for the death of Muslims and the destruction of the Muslim component of human civilization.



> ...The scope of the success of that type of recruiting is enhanced when poverty, disenfranchisement, and religious extremism are present...


That's the formula, alrght, across teh board.



> ...The relative success street gangs have in areas in the US, come from the same recruiting tactics...


At least those gangs only want 42nd Street... they're not looking to slaughter Infidels and to wipe-out Infidel civilization.



> ...Protectionist and that other guy's position seems to demonize Islam, and Muslims, without much exception...


Understandable, when you're dealing with a belief-system that is so alien and hostile and incompatible with your own culture and society and beliefs, although it is, of course, possible to go to excess, even when prosecuting a point against a dangerous opponent.



> ...I can't get them to offer percentages of Muslims they think are too far gone, and deserve to be killed


They can speak for themselves... as much as I dislike and distrust the belief system, I can't go down that road myself, except in defense of our country, in an other-worldly case of extremis that is unlikely to materialize in the universe which we inhabit.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Jesus taught me tolerance.




It wasn't Jesus who taught you lying.


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 30, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > This is an age of instantaneous and broad communications, on a global scale.
> ...


Agreed, in large part.

Personal experience can certainly add "cred-points" to a presentation.

But it should not and cannot be allowed to serve as a substitute for a realistic macro-level view for others who are well-informed through other means.

And, of course, you're right that instantaneous global communication does not equate to truth or accuracy or serviceable interpretation of fact and data and opinion.

But instantaneous global communication makes information available to vastly larger audiences than could possibly otherwise match such personal experience.

Analysis of that information requires the same measure of intellectual capacity, objectivity, and common sense, that would be required to filter a personal experience.

Either you have the knack of sorting through the fluff and finding substance and properly analyzing same or you do not.

But it seems likely that far more people can field meritorious argument on the subject in modern times than would have been possible solely through personal experience.

And with that middle ground in mind, I'll speculate that we've covered the issue of _Personal Experience versus Instantaneous Communications_ adequately.


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Anger?  Hardly. But have you read some of Billy the bully's posts?  There's always anger, profanity, and aggression in all his posts.


That's the 2nd time you've accused me of that, so let's just see, shall we?



> _*Roudy* say's:
> "There's always anger, profanity, and aggression in all his posts"_



Here's my last 10 posts:





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 1
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​






*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 1
aggression = 0​





*Roudy* count:
anger = 0
profanity = 0
aggression = 0​
So lets review...

Out of my last 10 posts, there have been (0) counts of anger, (2) counts of profanity and (0) counts of aggression.

Shall we take a look at your last 10?


----------



## Billo_Really (Nov 30, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?


"Anger" is *Roudy's* BFF.

He's afraid of not hating.


----------



## Kondor3 (Nov 30, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > And he was stating his opinion...why would that anger you?
> ...


Switched-up tactics, have ya, Junior, and trying to re-package yourself as the Voice of Reason?

Those who have been dealing with you for a while know better.

You're not fooling anybody, except the newest kids on the block.

And most of them will have you figured-out soon enough, as well.

Still, it's good that you're trying.

Allah loves "try-ers", too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Now... if you're through playing patty-cake with Roudy, and if you're through de-railing the thread, feel free to contribute something substantive to the thread topic.


----------



## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


I lived in Istanbul, but my wife had Kurdish relatives in eastern Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. The are Alevis and Shiite. She also has Sunni relatives in Damascus.

I've no need for your regurgitated 3rd hand special interest propaganda.


----------



## toxicmedia (Nov 30, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Riiiight....because you're so tolerant and friendly.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


I speak Turkish, ad enough Arabic to get by. Many of my wife's relatives speak English too. They teach it in elementary school, plus they travel quite a bit.

I don't believe you are a Christian or Jew who was asked to leave a Muslim country. You just heard about that and now you're getting desperate in this argument, and you made that up.


----------



## Vigilante (Dec 1, 2014)




----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > ...Having lived there between 2000-2004...
> ...


You've never lived in the middle east, and you've spent too much time surfing anti Muslim hate sites


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus taught me tolerance.
> ...


Now you're just desperate too, and angry


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

protectionist said:


> Mineva said:
> 
> 
> > When you say anything bad about Israel, its called as "anti-semitism".  (blames you)
> ...




Another great post!!!




M2


----------



## Billo_Really (Dec 1, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Switched-up tactics, have ya, Junior, and trying to re-package yourself as the Voice of Reason?
> 
> Those who have been dealing with you for a while know better.
> 
> ...


That's pretty funny, coming from you!


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



I was going to indignantly announce you unfit to carry Mr. Limbaugh's likely seldom used jock!

Then I reconsidered.

Now I think you _are _fit for the task.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Mac1958 said:
> ...


Mr Limbaugh?....eeeeyuuuuuwah!

I too have to reconsider something...

Is frequent use of a "jock" good or bad.

Hmmm...I can't really tell if you admire that filthy impotent flabby armed waste of space, or you're sane

Rush s the perfect mascot for typical righties these days.

He's too old to get it up.

Women can't live with him for long, no matter how much money he has, so that's why he hates them.

He's angry all the time.

Check, check, and check.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> I don't think your experience compares to mine.  So I wouldn't go around bragging about experience. You lived in secular dictatorship countries in a shielded manner.  Since you're a foreigner you obviously didn't speak their language, probably just enough to get around. So, in other words your "experience" is of no real value, the equivalent of a tourist.  If you want to know how life was really like for minorities in Muslim countries, I suggest you get in touch with some Christians or Jews who were born and raised there, and had to leave.   Which is what I am.




 I grew up with some Lebanese Christians as close friends and have some good customers who are Copts, and both say the same things as you.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think your experience compares to mine.  So I wouldn't go around bragging about experience. You lived in secular dictatorship countries in a shielded manner.  Since you're a foreigner you obviously didn't speak their language, probably just enough to get around. So, in other words your "experience" is of no real value, the equivalent of a tourist.  If you want to know how life was really like for minorities in Muslim countries, I suggest you get in touch with some Christians or Jews who were born and raised there, and had to leave.   Which is what I am.
> ...


Nobody denies Egyptian oppression of the Copts

But you want to declare war on Islam, using tragedies like that as the reason.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> But you want to declare war on Islam, using tragedies like that as the reason.




 You are in luck here, liar, because there is no need to declare war on Islam.

Islam has already declared war on Western liberalism.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




who declared  "WAR ON ISLAM"?  -----1400 years ago  ISLAM declared
war on  da jooos,  Christians ----and later on da hindoooos    and --more
recently on da    ZIONISTcontrolledCIA  

btw----roudy does not do COPTS   (sorry roudy-----I hope you do not mind) ---
roudy does the   Iraq and Iran.     BUT I DO COPTS----of the people who
survived the filth and stink of shariah cesspits---the FIRST I encountered---were
Christians.   -------copts and 'chaldeans'----and those people with extra lines
in their crosses from Syria   (eastern ortho---something)     Later on I encountered
JOOOOOS  who survived the stink and filth----in fact,,   I married one.

Roudy is our local expert-------he LIVED IT------I am a different kind of informant----
I rubbed shoulders with JOOOOISH survivors----and also with HINDOOO
survivors and also   Christian survivors----and ---most importantly with 
MOOOOOSLIMS     For a scholarly perspective on the situation ----read
ROBERT SPENCE ------a catholic with family legacy of the ----modified filth of
shariah in Turkey-----the most benign form of the stinking filth


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

I find it hilarious that toxic is whining about a war on Islam while Muslims have shown a total inability to coexist with people of other faiths.


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Muslim oppression and persecution doesn't begin and end with the Copts.  It occurs in every Muslim majority country where there is a minority of people of other faiths. They even slaughter Muslims of other sects. You seem very ignorant.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> I find it hilarious that toxic is whining about a war on Islam while Muslims have shown a total inability to coexist with people of other faiths.



roudy-----well.....it's not really hilarious----BUT---I understand from where you come-----
uhmmmm.      Over the years----I have come to the conclusion-----that jews from ALL 
parts of the world------have the same sense of humor-------when faced with both islam and the first, second and third REICHS  of the  "HOLY"  roman empire.

..very long ago ----I read an opinion column in which the writer commented something like-------"at that close of world war II      a jew-----in Auschwitz-----sat down and wrote
a book of comedy"


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



I think therefore I like Rush.

He predicted Obama would fail and hoped he would.

Now, show us how ignorantly you can misinterpret that.


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > But you want to declare war on Islam, using tragedies like that as the reason.
> ...



Absolutely.


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 1, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
> ...





 How about a link to one of the esteemed medical journals that has details of the first case of islamophobia. This is a made up term by the neo Marxist left wing politically correct because they wore out Nazi, Fascist and Racist. What is really meant is they are describing those who have studied the religion of islam and know more than they should about the tenents and commands written in Islam's holy books. There have been no recorded cases of anyone showing abject fear to the point of death in the presence of any item connected with islam.


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 1, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


>





 ISLA<ONAZI PROPAGANDA and has no bearing on any reality.


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > I find it hilarious that toxic is whining about a war on Islam while Muslims have shown a total inability to coexist with people of other faiths.
> ...



A sense of humor is a necessity if one is to remain sane in this crazy world.  I remember over 20 years ago, my family and I were going through a streak of bad luck. As they say, when it rains it pours.  During one of these events, I was notified that a family member had gotten into a head-on collision with a truck.  I arrived to the scene to see her being taken away by an ambulance in a stretcher.  The car was totaled but the crash occurred at relatively low speed during a left turn.  As I was having coffee with friends and family joking about all the abnormally bad events that had taken place recently, I started laughing uncontrollably to the point of that tears started coming out of my eyes and pretty soon it was mostly tears.  The laughter helped release all the stress.  Laughter is indeed the best medicine.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > *Promoting Islamophobia
> ...



I had a very HIGH opinion of islam-----until I learned all about it----mostly from muslims who told me about its   "BEAUTY".      The first version of the Koran which I read was the  PICTHALL version.     It had a forward written by the translator----I was not quite
 20  and it was LONG LONG ago.      No computers back then.    The forward was fascinating in its claims------apparently this person ,   Muhummad invented everything
from the wheel to sliced bread.     I had been an avid reader since I was a small child----
and really liked OLD stuff-------so I knew things about ----OLD TIMES.    The forward to the Koran translation confused me       It stated that MUHUMMAD invented the idea
of freeing slaves----and "charity"   and ----"democracy"   and even "women's rights". 
such as "ownership of land"--------????      Based on what Picthall claimed for
muhummad------muhummad would have had to have lived 7000 years ago.   I was
shocked when I checked the encyclopedia Britannica and discovered that this person
"muhummad"  lived less than 1400 years ago-----then I read the book-----<YUCK>   what a bastard!!!!!


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



My experience is that many Muslims are decent, tolerant, honorable people IN SPITE OF ISLAM, not because of.  In other words, although their countries got invaded and looted by Arabs / Muslims, and this new faith and culture was forced upon them, many of them still held on to their original culture and traditions. Persia for example, is the worlds first democracy that established human rights and equality as law by Cyrus The Great over 2500 years ago.  You can see this as a historical artificial in the Cuneiform in the Louvre  Museum in Paris. Which is why Iranians in general (those who aren't very religious) have kept this tradition of coexistence, and do not exhibit the intolerance that Islam forced upon them.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

My experience is that many Muslims are decent, tolerant, honorable people IN SPITE OF ISLAM, not because of.  In other words, although their countries got invaded and looted by Arabs / Muslims, and this new faith and culture was forced upon them, many of them still held on to their original culture and traditions. Persia for example, is the worlds first democracy that established human rights and equality as law by Cyrus The Great over 2500 years ago.  You can see this as a historical artificial in the Cuneiform in the Louvre  Museum in Paris. Which is why Iranians in general (those who aren't very religious) have kept this tradition of coexistence, and do not exhibit the intolerance that Islam forced upon them.[/QUOTE]

So true------amongst the first muslims I befriended-----were Iranians-----absolutely
normal people------then KHOMEINI happened.        But----according to some Iranian jews I met------between loving "OUR SHAH"  and Iran in general and stuff like that-----they admitted that lots of   Iranian muslims are damned anti semitic.   ----------there were enough of the to win


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 1, 2014)

I would like to know exactly what the Prophet of islam prophesised 1400 years ago that was not already known to man. What is he famous for saying that proved he was the last Prophet of God and not just another imposter, what has he said that came true that was not said before by other people. maybe sunni man or one of the other muslims can fill in the missing pieces for me. Reading the Koran leaves even more holes in his prophesies than it fills in, with such glaring false truths as semen coming from the spine and there being no lands outside of Asia.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> I would like to know exactly what the Prophet of islam prophesised 1400 years ago that was not already known to man. What is he famous for saying that proved he was the last Prophet of God and not just another imposter, what has he said that came true that was not said before by other people. maybe sunni man or one of the other muslims can fill in the missing pieces for me. Reading the Koran leaves even more holes in his prophesies than it fills in, with such glaring false truths as semen coming from the spine and there being no lands outside of Asia.



you are assuming that  "prophet"   means a guy who predicts the future------I think
a  "nabi"  is more like a person who is in someway  "in contact with  "god" "

Muhummad was a  WAR LORD------who worked to establish his very own 
UTOPIAN  SOCIETY with himself as   THE LAST EMPEROR------kinda
Utopian like Japanese society   STRICT BRUTAL CONTROL


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

*


Coyote said:



			I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad.
		
Click to expand...

*


Coyote said:


> Feel free to continue your hate mongering.



You accusing another poster of dishonesty is like Jeffrey Dahmer commenting on somebody else's food choices.

If you treat Islam like any other religion, why have you devoted so many tends of thousands of posts defending it in different forums, eh?  You do not defend Christianity with such manic intensity. You certainly do not defend Judaism with such single-minded determination.  I have never witnessed you going on and on about Buddhism with such an obsession, nor have you ever defended Hinduism as if your very life depended on it.  Only Islam receives your extreme zealousness by way of support.  None of the other religions.   NONE.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> *
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> ...



gee----dog-----you noticed too.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > But you want to declare war on Islam, using tragedies like that as the reason.
> ...





Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Aaaaand that's where I stopped reading.

You've never been to the middle east and you don't know any Mulsims there.

How do you know if they're anything?

You're going off what others have told you.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

I have two questions-----who is  HILLARY SMITH?    and why should I care???----
   and another one for toxid-----to whom are you addressing your post?----ie the
   one that is   "you don't know..."


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> *
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> ...


How did I survive 4 years there, as a Christian?

That's why none of this resembles reality.

I think the hatefullness and lack of civility you, and the other Muslim haters on this thread, have shown me...is probably behind the ease with which anti Muslim interests in the US have cultivated hatred in you.

If you DON"T want to kill Muslims...what is the point?

Do you think you're going to eradicate Islam?...or just the people who misuse it to recruit marginalized people as soldiers.

You're never going to convert them all to Christians.

So again...what is your goal?


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
> ...


He predicted Romney by a landslide too.

You've been indoctrinated.

Harry Truman had lower approval numbers when he left office, and so did George Bush 2.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

who wrote    approx.     "I spent 4 years in the middle east as a Christian---
how did I survive"???     whoever asked that question----needs help.    I am
reminded of a very widely used muslim argument that was once employed
regularly----"if muslims oppress hindus and Christians and Zoroastrians and
jews-----why are there still   hindus, Christians and Zoroastrians and jews----living
in the world"   <<<<   really--I have heard or read that one many many times---
but not lately


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



And...that's where you're fucking wrong.  In fact I was born and raised in the Middle East, and by background is from several other ethnicities in the region..

The fact that you shacked up with a Muslim for a short period doesn't give you any real perspective on treatment of minorities by Muslims.

But I'm not going around throwing my credentials in people's faces just because of my background.

You sir, have a bias towards putting a good face on Islamic intolerance.  Ever heard of swimming up shit creek without paddles?


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> *
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> ...


Riiight.....because you haven't accused other posters of dishonesty.

You're a piece of work.

Do you even remember what you post?...or is your hysterical anger using all your memory up?


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...


I don't believe you.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

"up shit creek......"        uhm-----I am not familiar with that one


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Aaaaand that's where I stopped reading.
> 
> You've never been to the middle east and you don't know any Mulsims there.
> 
> ...




Are you sure it wasn't right about the second or third grade when you stopped reading?

  It is true that I do not know any Mulsims, though.  Mulsims are very hard to find.

How odd, though, isn't it that you have proven how completely ignorant you are as to the attitudes towards apostasy in Islam, while I was the one who actually knew. I suppose that is because I have not stopped reading, while you never have.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...



I think dog is addressing coyote-------coyote accuses people of
dishonesty is she does not like the facts they post


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> QUOTE]How did I survive 4 years there, as a Christian?
> 
> That's why none of this resembles reality.
> 
> ...




Poor little fella.

You accuse others of wanting to kill Muslims, you make a very public farce out of offers for prayer, you lie continually and now you whine about people's incivility.

You poor, poor boy, you.


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



I don't care.  Born and raised in Iran, my background Iraqi / Kurdish.  But on the other hand, I don't think living or going there is a prerequisite to knowing what life is like over there.  You must be very insecure  and / or uneducated to use your tourist trip to Turkey like that.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



toxid---is that you saying you don't believe  ?? roudy?----what
do you not believe that roudy wrote?----here is a clue----he can
say it in Arabic and Farsi---------I cannot----but he can


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> "up shit creek......"        uhm-----I am not familiar with that one


Well how about " a one legged man going to an ass kicking party".  That's what toxic reminds me of.  

I find it interesting when people assume things about other people on an anonymous internet message board.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




oh gee---roudy     I AM DAMNED EXCITED----I has no idea you do Kurdish too----
what part of    KURDLAND???  ----I had thought you were born in Iraq-----I used to
have a friend from IRAN-KURDLAND-----good cook


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > "up shit creek......"        uhm-----I am not familiar with that one
> ...



roudy----sorry---but I cannot help myself-----I must ask-----have
your relatives ever asked you about ---WHAT SORT OF FRIENDS 
YOU HANG OUT WITH????


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Toxic is a Zmal (Arabic) or in Farsi Khareh Deevoneh (crazy donkey).  Did you know in Iran people call the Turks "donkeys" because they're famous for being stupid, like you? Ha ha ha.   Kind of like the Polish in the US.   Are you a Pollack toxic?


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



May Jews fled to Kurdistan when the shit hit the fan in Iraq.  The Kurds treated them well, then they started trading with Iran, and eventually moved there.  That's how Iraqi Jews made it to Iran.  Others went to the far east, Canada, India, etc.  My grandparents spoke Arabic, Kurdish, and when they wanted to be secretive, Aramaic.


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

anybody see a wee bit of a pattern here?


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

[QUOTE="Roudy, post: 10269897,

Toxic is a Zmal (Arabic) or in Farsi Khareh Deevoneh (crazy donkey).  Did you know in Iran people call the Turks "donkeys" because they're famous for being stupid, like you? Ha ha ha.   Kind of like the Polish in the US.   Are you a Pollack?[/QUOTE]

Roudy-----well....... ----I have to answer that one------from Iranians
I have known----both jews and muslims------Iranians have imaginative
descriptive terms for just about EVERYONE-----in the world-----even
the residents of the  Iranian city  OVER THERE.     I am waiting to see how
IRANIAN/TURKISH  relations pan out--------now that both are being
annoyed by ISIS.     Who allies with whom is going to be ----IMHO----a
real big mess    (balagan in Hebrew slang  ???)


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



All my life I've had an amazingly diverse group of friends.  It ranges from neurosurgeons to actors to blue collar to mafioso types to billionaires.  I don't prejudge anyone.


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> [QUOTE="Roudy, post: 10269897,
> 
> Toxic is a Zmal (Arabic) or in Farsi Khareh Deevoneh (crazy donkey).  Did you know in Iran people call the Turks "donkeys" because they're famous for being stupid, like you? Ha ha ha.   Kind of like the Polish in the US.   Are you a Pollack?



Roudy-----well....... ----I have to answer that one------from Iranians
I have known----both jews and muslims------Iranians have imaginative
descriptive terms for just about EVERYONE-----in the world-----even
the residents of the  Iranian city  OVER THERE.     I am waiting to see how
IRANIAN/TURKISH  relations pan out--------now that both are being
annoyed by ISIS.     Who allies with whom is going to be ----IMHO----a
real big mess    (balagan in Hebrew slang  ???)[/QUOTE]

Iranians and Turks are very proud people who at one point in time "ruled the world."  I think Iranians are more nationalistic whereas Turks are more proud of their ethnicity.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



oh-----ok      I have a friend from  Bombay/Mumbai      Her family has been in Bombay for centuries----but one day she ran into a shopkeeper in New York-----and
began speaking what seemed like Arabic to me -----well,,, it was -----she said
"IRAQI ARABIC"-----her----ancestors fled to Bombay---like centuries ago.    A relative
born in Turkey told me the same kind of thing-----in tough times even
the Turkish jews ran to the hills ------to live with the kurds


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



which one of those groups do   "up shits creek"???    I grew up in an area
with mafia-----I have known lots of blues and neursurgeons------
   "billionaires"??    I am not sure


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > [QUOTE="Roudy, post: 10269897,
> ...



Iranians and Turks are very proud people who at one point in time "ruled the world."  I think Iranians are more nationalistic whereas Turks are more proud of their ethnicity.[/QUOTE]


YEAH-----and now      CALIPH BAGHDADDY    is   RULER OF THE UNIVERSE

     if only Charlie Chaplin was still alive


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



The Turks have a history of being tolerant towards their ancient Jewish community.  As long as the seed of Islamism is kept at bay that is.  Turkey was one the first countries to formally recognize Israel.


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## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

I wonder where the toxic tourist ran off to?  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Sally (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > "up shit creek......"        uhm-----I am not familiar with that one
> ...



Can I assume something?  From his Avatar, he reminds me of the American soldier who brought back a War Bride when he was stationed in Iraq.  I don't know if any of you remember that particular story.


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## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



yeah----well the good old days seem to be  OVER-------erdogan is playing
the   Islam card just like  KHOMEINI  did------sheeeesh


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE]How did I survive 4 years there, as a Christian?
> ...


What is your goal?

Why do you promote anti Muslims information?


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Sally said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Sally----if you are referring to  roudy and his avatar-----I do not think
you can make that assumption------but I may be wrong


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## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


What is your goal?

Why do you promote anti Muslims information?


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## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



She's not talking about my avatar.


----------



## Sally (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > "up shit creek......"        uhm-----I am not familiar with that one
> ...



The first time I ever heard that one about a "one legged man" was said by a guy from he South  years ago.  Up "shit's creek" is an old expression.


irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



No, not Roudy.  The guy Toxic.


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## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



what is  "anti-muslim information"???


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


What is your goal?
Why do you promote anti Muslims information?


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Those close to her have suffered persecution by Muslims, and today's Muslims are trying to perpetuate a second Holocaust on the Jews?


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## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



What's yours.  Why are you trying to whitewash Islamic intolerance and violence?


----------



## Sally (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I see this when I go into a small Iranian market in my neighborhood.  The Muslim and Jewish Iranian shoppers happily get along with each other.  In fact, outside there are several newspaper racks.  They papers are all in Farsi, except one which is in Hebrew, and the Muslims shoppers certainly have not told the owner to stop displaying the one in Hebrew.  I was in there the other day and happened to be speaking to a Muslim woman in front of me while we waited for the cashier.  For some reason she asked if I was an Armenian.  I told her no, that I was a New Yorker (once a New Yorker, always a New Yorker).  Anyhow, I was unaware that Armenians have blue eyes, but you never know.  One is always being made aware of how proud the Iranians are of their Persian heritage.  If you happen to ask them where they come from, they invariably say Persia, not Iran.  In fact, in the 70's I happened to be in the Base Exchange of the Los Angeles Air Force Base where I noticed some foreign military airmen also shopping.  They were from the Iranian Air Force, but when I first asked where they were from, they said Persia.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Sally said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...





Sally said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



I think that was back then SALLY------IRAN has become    ****IRAN*****
back in the 70s-----a newcomer doc to the hospital in which I had a weekend
job stopped---(I was receptionist)  and announced his name and said
with an air of  PRIDE AND DEFIANCE-----"I AM AN IRANIAN----NOT AN ARAB"---
I had no idea at that point as to what  'NOT AN ARAB'    meant------but it happens
to be VERY VERY IMPORTANT--------.....never accuse an Iranian (or even
a persian)     of being  AN ARAB-----also---never accuse a turk of being an arab.

that was early 70s-----I believe that  "persian"  came into vogue---
during the HOSTAGE CRISIS------sounded better than bringing up  
                 )))))))   IRAN   <gasp>  ((((((((((

speaking of newspapers-----the only places near my home for
hubby to get his daily supply of Israeli newspapers is the
arab shop down the street--------he does the Yiddish papers too.
I was a little taken aback when I walked into that store for the first
time and he kinda automatically pointed to the piles of Hebrew papers.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> What is your goal?
> 
> Why do you promote anti Muslims information?




My goal?

My goal is to support enlightenment values against an anti-humanist totalitarian ideology that seeks to obliterate freedom of speech, freedom of thought and freedom of expression from the face of the Earth.

What is yours?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> I don't care.  Born and raised in Iran, my background Iraqi / Kurdish.  But on the other hand, I don't think living or going there is a prerequisite to knowing what life is like over there.  You must be very insecure  and / or uneducated to use your tourist trip to Turkey like that.



When people say things about themselves, I tend to regard such statements according to how honest they strike me in other regards.  You don't try to pretend you are taking positions other than the ones you are taking and make honest comments, so I take you at your word. Toxic has indulged in quite demonstrable lies right here in this thread, so I am less inclined to believe what else he says about himself.  Coyote has exhibited such a consistent pattern of deceit by making grandiose statements that fly completely in the face of her long established pattern of behavior (such as her ridiculous claim that she treats all religions the same)  that I wouldn't believe ANYTHING she said about herself.

If it quacks like a duck.........


----------



## Sally (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



They had the IAF (Iranian Air Force) printed on their caps.  At one time before the revolution I was doing some temp work for Litton Insustries, and the guidance and control equipment was contracted for by the purchasing agent who flew in from Iran.  I think it was more that they were proud of their Persian heritage.  After all, it is a very ancient one..


irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



In a Middle East market in the next town, which is owned by a Lebanese Christian, the newsracks outside the store contain newspapers to cover everything, even the Turkish News. You don't even have to travel around the world to see people from all over the globe shopping there as this sharp guys carried things for many different groups.  In fact, he now has three stores in different areas.  I even see men dressed like you would swear they are members of the Taliban.  Since there are many Israelis living in the San Fernando Valley, I would imagine that the newstands carry all the different Israeli newspapers.  An Israeli can feel right at home because one man opened up a restaurant serving the same food as does his restaurant in Tel Aviv.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


What do you want done about it?


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...


Everything you say about Muslims.

What do you want done about them?


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't care.  Born and raised in Iran, my background Iraqi / Kurdish.  But on the other hand, I don't think living or going there is a prerequisite to knowing what life is like over there.  You must be very insecure  and / or uneducated to use your tourist trip to Turkey like that.
> ...


What about what I've said makes you think they're lies?

Since none of it is...apparently your need for what I've said to be lies is all you've got.


----------



## Sally (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



First off, Roudy, do you know any one of Mr. Cuckoo's helpers who you can inform to have the correct number of stones ready for the convert since he is always sitting on his Porta-potty.  I keep on getting alerts from this crackpot, as I am sure the viewers notice.

Secondly, so true, and not only that, they want to break the backs of all other religions so that only Islam will rule.  We wee what is happening to those who are members of other religions in the Muslim world.

Syrian Islamist Scholar Muaz Al-Safouk: Only the Jihadi Movements Can Break the Backs of the Jews

http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/

 Kuwaiti Cleric Tareq Al-Suwaidan: Our Struggle with the Sons of Zion Pertains to Our Very Existence, Requires Jihad

Kuwaiti Cleric Tareq Al-Suwaidan Our Struggle with the Sons of Zion Pertains to Our Very Existence Requires Jihad


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Knowledge is power.     I TRULY believe that the white house should have asked me-----"should we support the Taliban since they are opposing the USSR"?  ----I would have said-----"they are dangerous--they are ISLAMICISTS"

I truly believe that Carter should have asked me  ---"who is better ----shah reza what'shisname"    or Komeini  (spelling?)    I would have said  "that jerk on the
peacock throne------by a MILE"


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

Sally said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...




I just heard the news on TV-----I think it was-----the from England thing----they were
interviewing an  ISIS schmuck.      The nice british lady asked   "do you think  you are right to kill british and American hostages?-----the schmuck answered  "we do
not talk to unbelievers----we are muslims   ---we are here to spread islam---we
do not talk to the UN   ---it is not muslim ----the unbelievers must pay for
making war against islam....etc etc......"


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Rush was right about Obama. Here is an excerpt from a Commentary magazine article by Peter Wehner.

*Obama’s Staggering Record of Failure*

"...It’s not simply that Mr. Obama has fallen short of what he promised; it’s that he has been, in so many respects, a failure.

Choose your metrics. Better yet, choose Mr. Obama’s metrics:

Job creation. FAILURE.*

Economic growth. FAILURE.

Improving our health-care system. FAILURE.

Reducing the debt. FAILURE.

Reducing poverty. FAILURE.

Reducing income inequality. FAILURE.

Slowing the rise of the oceans. FAILURE.

Healing the planet. FAILURE.

Repairing the world. FAILURE.

The Russian “reset.” FAILURE.

Peace in the Middle East. FAILURE.

Red lines in Syria. FAILURE.

Renewed focus on Afghanistan. FAILURE.

A new beginning with the Arab world. FAILURE.

Better relations with our allies. FAILURE.

Depolarizing our politics. FAILURE.

Putting an end to the type of politics that “breeds division and conflict and cynicism.” FAILURE.

Working with the other party. FAILURE.

Transparency. FAILURE.

No lobbyists working in his administration. FAILURE.

His commitment to seek public financing in the general election. FAILURE.

The list goes on and on.

By now, nearly five and a half years into the Obama presidency, objective people can draw reasonable conclusions, among which are these: Barack Obama was among the least prepared men to ever serve as presidency. It shows. He has been overmatched by events right from the start. He is an excellent campaigner but unusually inept when it comes to governing.

By temperament and experience, based on skill set and ability, Mr. Obama is much better equipped to be a community organizer than to be president of the United States.

For the sake of our nation and much of the world, I wish he had stayed on Chicago’s South Side."​
Obama s Staggering Record of Failure Commentary Magazine

And to think we could have hired Mitt (Mr. Fixit) Romney for the same salary!

* I added the word, "FAILURE" after each item on the list.


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



They really do think they are superior to the rest of us, don't they?


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Gee, I've been indoctrinated and I didn't even have to show you that I can get it up?

Why, who informed you?


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...



2% and no more.

*Stage 2. Establish Outposts*

Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.  A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK.  Sound harmless?  Read on:

The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.

*Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.*

Population density 5% - 10%  (France, Sweden, Netherlands).

First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia.  When Muslims approach 10% of the population the demands turn to lawlessness.  

In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings.  Any criticism of Islam results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam.  In France which may be over the 10% range, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law.  The national police do not even enter these ghettos.  

There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities.  In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.  The children attend madrassas.  They learn only the Koran.  To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.


http://www.think-israel.org/butrick.5stagesislam.html


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## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Oh...so you just want to raise awareness huh?

Very altruistic.

What changes do you want, or expect, from them?


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## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
> ...


Obama doesn't have the worst approval numbers ever.

Why would he go down as the worst President ever?

That doesn't make sense


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...


Your posts aren't superior to anything.

And they're completely unoriginal


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## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
> ...


The only people I've met who like Rush are fat, short, ugly, or old men.


----------



## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



The only people I've met who like Rush are fat, short, ugly, or old men.

Every one was smarter than you.


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## Mojo2 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Want entertainment?

Try this.


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

Sally said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Armenians have very Semitic / Jewish looks, so than Muslims in my opinion.  Many Iranians now call themselves Persians because of the shame that the Islamic republic has brought them. Exactly the opposite of how things were during the Shah's days.


----------



## Roudy (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Two different questions, dipstick.  No one's going to change the world here.  This is an OPINION board. 

 Perhaps you should consider that putting Western values and tolerance to Muslim societies on the same level is a total fraud.  You seem to have a problem with free speech, are you sure you didn't convert to Islam?  LOL


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## toxicmedia (Dec 1, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


I'm tempted to deny you the answers to your questions, because of the deprivation you bestow on mine.

But I'm reassured about your sanity if your goals are simply "awareness"

And honestly...that region could use more cool heads.

As for free speech. It's actually alive and well within our exchange. You've expressed your opinions, and backed them up with why you have them. I have rejected them, and your sources, and expressed my opinions. Then you rejected my opinions, and so on.

As for converting to Islam, once when I was in love...I asked the local Sunni preacher, as I called him, if it would benefit my wife to covert. He said my reasons were wrong, and advised against it. He was probably right, because we got divorced in the US 5 years later. She now lives with a conservative redneck in Texas...go figure.


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## irosie91 (Dec 1, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



your post does not make sense.    How were your questions "deprived"?      With whom were you in love?    did your wife know?     to what did you want your wife
to convert--------and why?


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## Roudy (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



But such a thing as free speech does not exist in Muslim countries. Never did, and never will.  

And again, you are talking about Turkey, a secular country which at some point in recent history banned Islamism to the point that even it's official language was changed to Latin / Greek.  Now of course, it's taken a turn for the much worse with this new leadership. What I'm saying is the act of a Christian man marrying a Muslim woman without first converting to Islam, is punishable by death in many Muslim countries.  I'm wondering how even in Turkey, you guys were issued a marriage certificate. Perhaps you married in US.

There is no such thing as a cool head when it comes to Muslims (generally speaking).   There is a certain capacity for rational thought and reason, which for some reason or another Islam seems to wipe out of the human brain.   Having been around Muslims I know this to be a fact.  Why do you think there seems to be an endless amount of people in the Muslim world willing to put on a suicide vest and go blow themselves up?  Picture the act and then ask yourself, is it poverty, education, or is it the degree of the grievance?  You have people under worse conditions that never did the kinds of horrific things Muslims do.  The answer can be one thing and one thing alone: it's the ideology.  Let's be honest and call a spade a spade.


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to know exactly what the Prophet of islam prophesised 1400 years ago that was not already known to man. What is he famous for saying that proved he was the last Prophet of God and not just another imposter, what has he said that came true that was not said before by other people. maybe sunni man or one of the other muslims can fill in the missing pieces for me. Reading the Koran leaves even more holes in his prophesies than it fills in, with such glaring false truths as semen coming from the spine and there being no lands outside of Asia.
> ...





So he was not the last in a long line of real prophets who made statements of what was to come. He was in other words a charlatan and a flim-flam artist with a glib tongue, and never a real man of god.


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...





 I guess everyone has noticed, and just made allowances for it


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


The question...in question...was "what are the goals of all this awareness raising", and you didn't answer either. So you've all danced completely around answering those questions the many times I've asked. Therefore I'm deprived of an answer.

My wife, and the person I was in love with, were the same person. And yeah, I can see how that might be confusing. My ex wife used to wear Metallica t-shirts and short skirts, and completely piss off everybody. Plus she married an American.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


I don't know who you're hearing what you're hearing about Turkey from...but my experience was different, because I was there.

Neither Islam nor Christianity is banned in Turkey, and nobody is proposing either.

Marrying a Muslim woman without being a Muslim, in Turkey, Iraq, and Syria, is not punishable at all. We did raise some eyebrows but we carried around our marriage license, and when we would check into hotels all around the region (NOT JUST TURKEY) that license would put the managers at ease. They were mostly concerned that she was a hooker.

We were married in a civil ceremony because the Mosque wouldn't do it. Kind of like how rednecks won't marry gays in churches over here.

There are tons of cool heads all over the middle east, and most people have them.

My take.....the people in the middle east who are ass holes, would probably have been ass holes if they were Christians or whatever else.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



I am confused-----have we been told that toxoid is a Christian
usa man and he went to Turkey and married a muslim turkey
lady there?--------and she managed to survive?


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



oh     now I got it.    Well toxoid----I can help you to understand-----TURKEY WENT SECULAR----a long time
ago---well----not that long ago------early 20th century.    
Logs of turks are not happy with "secular"   just as in the 1970s lots of people in Iran were not happy with secular----.
Iran went    "shariah cesspit"-------and Erdogan is now playing
the  "lets go cesspit"   card and will probably win just as
ayatoilet Khomeini won in the  1970's  (cheered on by peanut carter)

the history over the past 1400 years of lands controlled by
"the umma"   is like a sin wave-----periodic ---CESSPIT 
REVIVALS-----always bloody


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
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> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...


Has it ever occurred to you that the evil of Islam which we should resist are the efforts to make America like the Middle East?

Once the entire country is 50% or greater Islamic things here will be more like what you experienced.

But the spear point of the Islamic Jihad, where they are confronting non-Muslim cultures and societies and forcing their will on others, that is where your focus should be.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
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> > Roudy said:
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My impression is that   toxoid   ----seems to believe that rumors
that  muslims impose their beliefs -------are    ALL SILLY LIES----
    possibly invented by   DA JOOOOOS   (to be fair-----I do not
    recall    DA JOOOOS  as an issue for toxoid-----but the idea
    had come up on the messageboard and is certainly a concept
    promulgated for many decades in the islamo Nazi literature


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## Phoenall (Dec 2, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
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 And team Palestine ignore the facts because they don't agree with their reality of the situation.


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> The Right Wing Playbook on Anti-Muslim Extremism People For the American Way[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> ...





*“Demand” Halal food?*  In cities with large Jewish populations, do you get upset when *they “demand” supermarkets carry kosher food?*  Supermarkets – and other business – are privately owned entities that base their decisions on what is profitable and market demand.  If they see that a lot of people in their region want a certain product or if they think those people want a certain product – they will provide because they are market-driven.

Blocking of the streets for prayers.  That’s a great example of taking a rare incident, because the Mosques are too small – and turning it into a wide spread occurrence.  It isn’t.

“When 10%.....demands turn to lawlessness”.  Not really.  Lawlessness is a product of many things – political frustration,  poverty, anger, disenfranchisment mob incitement etc.

My town has frequent events of lawlessness when we lose (or win) a football game.  Students take to the streets, burn couches, over turn cars.  Other examples of lawlessness are the violent protests in Ferguson.  None of which are Muslim-driven.

In addition, this fallacy (which is a nice way of stating it’s a “lie”) ignores the many ways in which Muslims use the courts and political system to air their concerns or peacefully protest in the same manner as any other religious group.

“When Muslim’s approach 10%...demands turn to self rule” – correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation.  This claim is largely driven by the idea of “no go zones”.  It’s difficult to get accurate information here because most of the sources tend to be dubous such as WND, or anti-Islam sites.  But it’s worth exploring for accuracy.

Swedish Police Lose Control Of 55 No-Go Zones To Muslim Gangs The Daily Caller

_Swedish police have ceded control over 55 “no-go zones” to predominately Muslim criminal gangs._

_An extensive report mapping out 55 no-go zones was released Oct. 24, showing where law enforcement has all but handed control to criminal gangs._

_Officers frequently face outright attacks when trying to enter the areas, which is a step up from the previous problem with attacks on mailmen, fire trucks, ambulances and similar services. Fire trucks and ambulances had to wait for police escort to enter the areas, but now the police themselves need protection._

_The no-go areas heavily coincide with the map of the 186 “exclusion areas” aka. crowded, predominantly Muslim immigrant ghettos, where education is low, employment is lower and the only local business thriving is drug dealing._

_As the real law backs away, organized crime emerges to take its place. The police report notes “a wider clientel [in the areas] are increasingly turning to the criminal authorities for justice” in a Godfather-like fashion. Unofficial courts and punishments are often meted out according to the codes of the home cultures of the dominant gangs. The report also points out that there are vehicle checkpoints at the borders of some of these areas. The bad news is it’s not the police doing them; it’s the gangs securing home turf against law enforcement and rival gangs._​
The issue here is not Muslims – it’s ghetto criminal gangs who in this particular area are predominantly Muslim.  In other areas – the gangs are made up of other ethnic groups – East Europeans for example.  London’s East End has a long history of poverty, immigrants, lawlessness and crime.  Forty years ago – the largest immigrant group was Jewish – the gangs were Cockney and Jewish.  As they gradually were able to move out to better areas they were replaced by new ethnic groups – Bangladeshi’s are the dominant group now I believe.  Each comes with it’s customs, enterprises, gangs, and crime.  It’s no different with Muslims than it is with other groups who consolidate in ghetto areas.

In this claim:

_There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities.  In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.  The children attend madrassas.  They learn only the Koran.  To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death._​
Do you have evidence to show there are no schools?  National courts?  There may well be no non-Muslim religious facilities if the population is majority Muslim – that too is driven by the population.  Do you have evidence to show that in these areas they learn only the Koran?

On assimilation – do Muslim immigrants assimilate?  Well, that too varies and depends on many factors including where they are residing and their countries of origin.  It’s interesting to note that in the US and Canada rates of assimilation are very high, in fact – higher than other immigrant groups.  Immigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh tend to assimilate less than immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East.  Source: Civic Report 64 COMPARING IMMIGRANT ASSIMILATION IN NORTH AMERICA AND EUROPE


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Pot. Kettle. Black.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote-----I have a sense that you do not like
"ANTHROPOLOGY"   -------time to tell Margaret
Meade that  "COMING OF AGE IN SAMOA"---is
all BS----because   EVERYONE IS THE SAME


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> *
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> ...



When Judaism is attacked, the attackers are openly denounced by a large contingent of this board.  When Christianity is attacked - similar.  When Islam is attacked - that same contingent that would defend the others jumps on the bandwagon and joins in the hate.  Someone needs to speak up, present other view points or in some cases the truth.  It certainly won't be the likes of you and your ilk who are more likely to be seen demanding Islam be undesignated as a religion and that it's worshippers be deported or deprived of their civil rights.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
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What is the pot and what is the kettle in your
   DM???


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...



Coyote----I seem to recall your  PRAISE  of  the country Indonesia------where Judaism has been rendered an
ILLEGAL RELIGION and all synagogues dismantled----
not five centuries ago-----20th century stuff----into 21.   
Must you express your LOVE OF FILTH so ardently ?


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote-----I have a sense that you do not like
> "ANTHROPOLOGY"   -------time to tell Margaret
> Meade that  "COMING OF AGE IN SAMOA"---is
> all BS----because   EVERYONE IS THE SAME




Who claimed "everyone is the same"?  They aren't.  But the differences aren't always as big as you would make it to be.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad.
     ^^^^^^       ^^^^^^^        ^^^^^^^       ^^^^^^        ^^^^^^

    ****ROFLMAO  ^^^^^^^


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote-----I have a sense that you do not like
> ...



The differences are very significant------no matter how tiny----
I have known Shiites and I have known Sunnis  (more sunnis---than Shiites)        I have witnessed their prayer rituals---etc----I SEE NO DIFFERENCE------but they know whom to kill
simply by the prayer style------------when I encountered lots of
people from southeast Asia-----to me they all seemed to be----
people--------but those guys knew WHOM THEY HATED----
it was almost magical.------DAGGERS flying out of eyes


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > *
> ...



Why do you refuse to acknowledge that Muslims are the "Black Hats" here?

There is no moral equivalent between Muslims and non-Muslims.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

[QUOTE="Coyote,

When Judaism is attacked, the attackers are openly denounced by a large contingent of this board.  When Christianity is attacked - similar.  When Islam is attacked - that same contingent that would defend the others jumps on the bandwagon and joins in the hate.  Someone needs to speak up, present other view points or in some cases the truth.  It certainly won't be the likes of you and your ilk who are more likely to be seen demanding Islam be undesignated as a religion and that it's worshippers be deported or deprived of their civil rights.[/QUOTE]

I am always amused when muslims denounce non muslims
for doing what muslims consider holy.     ------"undesignated
as a religion"----------for that phenomenon----read the Koran

The preceding post is an interesting example of   REFERENTIAL IDEATION


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

[QUOTE="Mojo2, post: 10274126,

If you treat Islam like any other religion, why have you devoted so many tends of thousands of posts defending it in different forums, eh?  You do not defend Christianity with such manic intensity. You certainly do not defend Judaism with such single-minded determination.  I have never witnessed you going on and on about Buddhism with such an obsession, nor have you ever defended Hinduism as if your very life depended on it.  Only Islam receives your extreme zealousness by way of support.  None of the other religions.   NONE.[/QUOTE]

coyote>>
When Judaism is attacked, the attackers are openly denounced by a large contingent of this board.  When Christianity is attacked - similar.  When Islam is attacked - that same contingent that would defend the others jumps on the bandwagon and joins in the hate.  Someone needs to speak up, present other view points or in some cases the truth.  It certainly won't be the likes of you and your ilk who are more likely to be seen demanding Islam be undesignated as a religion and that it's worshippers be deported or deprived of their civil rights.[/QUOTE]

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that Muslims are the "Black Hats" here?

There is no moral equivalent between Muslims and non-Muslims.

[/QUOTE]

no good MOJO-----you are speaking to a person who
clings to her very own concept-----call it REFERENTIAL 
IDEATION  ------it is a perception altering condition----
but not actually psychotic


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> [QUOTE="Mojo2, post: 10274126,
> 
> If you treat Islam like any other religion, why have you devoted so many tends of thousands of posts defending it in different forums, eh?  You do not defend Christianity with such manic intensity. You certainly do not defend Judaism with such single-minded determination.  I have never witnessed you going on and on about Buddhism with such an obsession, nor have you ever defended Hinduism as if your very life depended on it.  Only Islam receives your extreme zealousness by way of support.  None of the other religions.   NONE.



coyote>>
When Judaism is attacked, the attackers are openly denounced by a large contingent of this board.  When Christianity is attacked - similar.  When Islam is attacked - that same contingent that would defend the others jumps on the bandwagon and joins in the hate.  Someone needs to speak up, present other view points or in some cases the truth.  It certainly won't be the likes of you and your ilk who are more likely to be seen demanding Islam be undesignated as a religion and that it's worshippers be deported or deprived of their civil rights.[/QUOTE]

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that Muslims are the "Black Hats" here?

There is no moral equivalent between Muslims and non-Muslims.

[/QUOTE]

no good MOJO-----you are speaking to a person who
clings to her very own concept-----call it REFERENTIAL
IDEATION  ------it is a perception altering condition----
but not actually psychotic[/QUOTE]

Thanks irosie91.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


No, that is paranoid, and it'll never happen


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> When Judaism is attacked, the attackers are openly denounced by a large contingent of this board.  When Christianity is attacked - similar.  When Islam is attacked - that same contingent that would defend the others jumps on the bandwagon and joins in the hate.  Someone needs to speak up, present other view points or in some cases the truth.  It certainly won't be the likes of you and your ilk who are more likely to be seen demanding Islam be undesignated as a religion and that it's worshippers be deported or deprived of their civil rights.




This is about what YOU do, not what other people do.  You lied.  You are a bald-faced liar and your very purpose in propagandizing across various boards is to lie. 

 You do not treat all religions the same, to which your many tens of thousands of posts attests. You treat the defense of Islam as your very mission in life.


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
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Muslim or Dhimmi or not, it is already happening below our radars.


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> I treat Islam as I do any other religion - both good and bad.
> ^^^^^^       ^^^^^^^        ^^^^^^^       ^^^^^^        ^^^^^^
> 
> ****ROFLMAO  ^^^^^^^



When some people decide to tell a whopper, they go all in, don't they?


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

Anyone still on the fence re: the threat of Islam?

Watch this CANADIAN (read, "Fair and balanced" ) news report.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...


I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know any Nazis, but one of my room mates IS Jewish...and so what?


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

[QUOTE="toxicmedia, post: 10274477,


My impression is that   toxoid   ----seems to believe that rumors
that  muslims impose their beliefs -------are    ALL SILLY LIES----
    possibly invented by   DA JOOOOOS   (to be fair-----I do not
    recall    DA JOOOOS  as an issue for toxoid-----but the idea
    had come up on the messageboard and is certainly a concept
    promulgated for many decades in the islamo Nazi literature[/QUOTE]I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know any Nazis, but one of my room mates IS Jewish...and so what?[/QUOTE]


toxoid----feel free to ask questions.     I was an avid reader as
a child and read anything that I found lying around----old copies of the reader's digest,   old magazines-----and lots and
lots of islamo Nazi pamphlets-----and just about all the old superman comics----some batman-----I never liked  
THE GREEN HORNET------.      I lived in a semi-urban
suburban town-------one had to get on a bus to get to
the library.      I am very familiar with islamo Nazi literature which---LATER on I discovered constitutes    some aspects
of  "common knowledge"   for people in the southern states and texas and middle america and is   the CORE CURRICULUM   for school  children in
muslim countries but back then----not Turkey----and not even
Iran.     Even if you never read the stuff-----you  KNOW it


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## Roudy (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Like I said a Turkey was and probably is different.  I have not been there but have studied enough. Many of my friends and family have been there for vacation. Heard its beautiful, but I'm not setting foot in any Muslim country ever again. Have you read about Turkey's history?  This is the reason a non Muslim can marry a Muslim.  Unfortunately many of the reforms have been reversed.  Read this and ask yourself, why did a Muslim nation ABOLISH Islam from its national psyche?  Perhaps FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE?  The Shah of Iran and his father were very similar rulers before the Islamist animals took over and destroyed the country:

*Mustafa Kemal Atatürk* (pronounced [mustäˈfä ceˈmäl äˈtäˌtyɾc]; 19 May 1881 (conventional) – 10 November 1938) was aTurkish army officer, reformist statesman, and the first President of Turkey. He is credited with being the founder of theRepublic of Turkey. His surname, Atatürk (meaning "Father of the Turks"), was granted to him in 1934 and forbidden to any other person by the Turkish parliament.[1]

Atatürk was a military officer during World War I.[2] Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War I, he led theTurkish National Movement in the Turkish War of Independence. Having established a provisional government in Ankara, he defeated the forces sent by the Allies. His military campaigns led to victory in the Turkish War of Independence. Atatürk then embarked upon a program of political, economic, and cultural reforms, seeking to transform the former Ottoman Empire into a modern and secular nation-state. Under his leadership, thousands of new schools were built, primary education was made free and compulsory, and women were given equal civil and political rights, while the burden of taxation on peasants was reduced.[3] His government also carried out an extensive policy of Turkification.[4][5][6][7] The principles of Atatürk's reforms, upon which modern Turkey was established, are referred to as Kemalism.

*Domestic policies*
Mustafa Kemal's basic tenet was the complete independence of the country.[63] He clarified his position:

“ ...by complete independence, we mean of course complete economic, financial, juridical, military, cultural independence and freedom in all matters. Being deprived of independence in any of these is equivalent to the nation and country being deprived of all its independence.[64] ”
He led wide-ranging reforms in social, cultural, and economical aspects, establishing the new Republic's backbone of legislative, judicial, and economic structures. Though he was later idealized by some as an originator of sweeping reforms, many of his reformist ideas were already common in Ottoman intellectual circles at the turn of the 20th century, and were expressed more openly after the Young Turk Revolution.[65]

Mustafa Kemal created a banner to mark the changes between the old Ottoman and the new republican rule. Each change was symbolized as an arrow in this banner. This defining ideology of the Republic of Turkey is referred to as the "Six Arrows", or Kemalist ideology. Kemalist ideology is based on Mustafa Kemal's conception of realism and pragmatism.[66] The fundamentals of nationalism, populism and etatism were all defined under the Six Arrows. These fundamentals were not new in world politics or, indeed, among the elite of Turkey. What made them unique was that these interrelated fundamentals were formulated specifically for Turkey's needs. A good example is the definition and application of secularism; the Kemalist secular state significantly differed from predominantly Christian states.

*Civic independence and the Caliphate, 1924–1925*

*Abolition of the Caliphate was an important dimension in Mustafa Kemal's drive to reform the political system and to promote the national sovereignty*. By the consensus of the Muslim majority in early centuries, the caliphate was the core political concept of Sunni Islam.[72] Abolishing the sultanate was easier because the survival of the Caliphate at the time satisfied the partisans of the sultanate. This produced a split system with the new republic on one side and an Islamic form of government with the Caliph on the other side, and Mustafa Kemal and İnönü worried that "it nourished the expectations that the sovereign would return under the guise of Caliph."[73] Caliph Abdülmecid II was elected after the abolition of the sultanate (1922).

The caliph had his own personal treasury and also had a personal service that included military personnel; Mustafa Kemal said that there was no "religious" or "political" justification for this. He believed that Caliph Abdülmecid II was following in the steps of the sultans in domestic and foreign affairs: accepting of and responding to foreign representatives and reserve officers, and participating in official ceremonies and celebrations.[74] He wanted to integrate the powers of the caliphate into the powers of the GNA. His initial activities began on 1 January 1924, when[74] İnönü, Çakmak and Özalp consented to the abolition of the caliphate. The caliph made a statement to the effect that he would not interfere with political affairs.[75] On 1 March 1924, at the Assembly, Mustafa Kemal said

*“ The religion of Islam will be elevated if it will cease to be a political instrument, as had been the case in the past.*[76] ”
On 3 March 1924, the caliphate was officially abolished and its powers within Turkey were transferred to the GNA. Other Muslim nations debated the validity of Turkey's unilateral abolition of the caliphate as they decided whether they should confirm the Turkish action or appoint a new caliph.[75] A "Caliphate Conference" was held in Cairo in May 1926 and a resolution was passed declaring the caliphate "a necessity in Islam", but failed to implement this decision.[75]

Two other Islamic conferences were held in Mecca (1926) and Jerusalem (1931), but failed to reach a consensus.[75] Turkey did not accept the re-establishment of the caliphate and perceived it as an attack to its basic existence; while Mustafa Kemal and the reformists continued their own way.[77]

*On 8 April 1924, sharia courts were abolished with the law "Mehakim-i Şer'iyenin İlgasına ve Mehakim Teşkilatına Ait Ahkamı Muaddil Kanun".[65][78]*

The removal of the caliphate was followed by an extensive effort to establish the separation of governmental and religious affairs. Education was the cornerstone in this effort. In 1923, there were three main educational groups of institutions. The most common institutions were medreses based on Arabic, the Qur'an and memorization. The second type of institution was idadî and sultanî, the reformist schools of the Tanzimat era. The last group included colleges and minority schools in foreign languages that used the latest teaching models in educating pupils. The old medrese education was modernized.[79] Mustafa Kemal changed the classical Islamic education for a vigorously promoted reconstruction of educational institutions.[79]Mustafa Kemal linked educational reform to the liberation of the nation from dogma, which he believed was more important than the Turkish War of Independence.

“ Today, our most important and most productive task is the national education [unification and modernization] affairs. We have to be successful in national education affairs and we shall be. The liberation of a nation is only achieved through this way."[80] ”
In the summer of 1924, Mustafa Kemal invited American educational reformer John Dewey to Ankara to advise him on how to reform Turkish education.[79] His public education reforms aimed to prepare citizens for roles in public life through increasing the public literacy. He wanted to institute compulsory primary education for both girls and boys; since then this effort has been an ongoing task for the republic. He pointed out that one of the main targets of education in Turkey had to be raising a generation nourished with what he called the "public culture". The state schools established a common curriculum which became known as the "unification of education."

Unification of education was put into force on 3 March 1924 by the Law on Unification of Education (No. 430). With the new law, education became inclusive, organized on a model of the civil community. In this new design, all schools submitted their curriculum to the "Ministry of National Education", a government agency modelled after other countries' ministries of education. Concurrently, the republic abolished the two ministries and made clergy subordinate to the department of religious affairs, one of the foundations of secularism in Turkey. The unification of education under one curriculum ended "clerics or clergy of the Ottoman Empire", but was not the end of religious schools in Turkey; they were moved to higher education until later governments restored them to their former position in secondary after Mustafa Kemal's death.




Atatürk with his Panama hat just afterthe Kastamonu speech in 1925.
*Beginning in the fall of 1925, Mustafa Kemal encouraged the Turks to wear modern European attire.[81] He was determined to force the abandonment of the sartorial traditions of the Middle East and finalize a series of dress reforms, *which were originally started byMahmud II.[81] The fez was established by Sultan Mahmud II in 1826 as part of the Ottoman Empire's modernization effort. The Hat Law of 1925 introduced the use of Western-style hats instead of the fez. Mustafa Kemal first made the hat compulsory for civil servants.[81] The guidelines for the proper dressing of students and state employees were passed during his lifetime; many civil servants adopted the hat willingly. In 1925, Mustafa Kemal wore his "Panama hat" during a public appearance in Kastamonu, one of the most conservative towns in Anatolia, to explain that the hat was the headgear of civilized nations. The last part of reform on dress emphasized the need to wear modern Western suits with neckties as well as Fedora and Derby-style hats instead of antiquated religion-based clothing such as the veil and turban in the Law Relating to Prohibited Garments of 1934.

Even though he personally promoted modern dress for women, Mustafa Kemal never made specific reference to women's clothing in the law, as he believed that women would adapt to the new clothing styles of their own free will. He was frequently photographed on public business with his wife Lâtife Uşaklıgil, who covered her head in accordance with Islamic tradition. He was also frequently photographed on public business with women wearing modern Western clothes. But it was Atatürk's adopted daughters, Sabiha Gökçen and Afet İnan, who provided the real role model for the Turkish women of the future. He wrote: "The religious covering of women will not cause difficulty ... This simple style [of headcovering] is not in conflict with the morals and manners of our society."[82]

On 30 August 1925, Mustafa Kemal's view on religious insignia used outside places of worship was introduced in hisKastamonu speech. This speech also had another position. He said:

*“ In the face of knowledge, science, and of the whole extent of radiant civilization, I cannot accept the presence in Turkey's civilized community of people primitive enough to seek material and spiritual benefits in the guidance of sheiks. The Turkish republic cannot be a country of sheiks, dervishes, and disciples. *The best, the truest order is the order of civilization. To be a man it is enough to carry out the requirements of civilization. The leaders of dervish orders will understand the truth of my words, and will themselves close down their lodges [tekke] and admit that their disciplines have grown up.[63] ”
On 2 September the government issued a decree closing down all Sufi orders and the tekkes. Mustafa Kemal ordered their dervish lodges to be converted to museums, such as Mevlana Museum in Konya. The institutional expression of Sufism became illegal in Turkey; a politically neutral form of Sufism, functioning as social associations, was permitted to exist.[_citation needed_]

The abolition of the caliphate and other cultural reforms were met with fierce opposition. [75]

*Modernization efforts, 1926–1930*



President Kemal at the 1927 opening of the State Art and Sculpture Museum.



President Mustafa Kemal Atatürk introducing the new Turkish alphabet to the people of Kayseri on 20 September 1928.



Present Mustafa Kemal Atatürk at the library of the Çankaya Presidential Residence in Ankara, 1929.



Attending a class at the Law School of theIstanbul Darülfünunu in 1930.
In the years following 1926, Mustafa Kemal introduced a radical departure from previous reformations established by the Ottoman Empire.[88] For the first time in history, Islamic law was separated from secular law, and restricted to matters of religion.[88] Mustafa Kemal said

“ We must liberate our concepts of justice, our laws and our legal institutions from the bonds which, even though they are incompatible with the needs of our century, still hold a tight grip on us.[89] ”
On 1 March 1926, the Turkish penal code was passed. It was modelled after the Italian Penal Code. On 4 October 1926, Islamic courts were closed. Establishing the civic law needed time, so Mustafa Kemal delayed the inclusion of the principle of laïcité until 5 February 1937.

Ottoman practice discouraged social interaction between men and women in keeping with Islamic practice of sex segregation. Mustafa Kemal began developing social reforms very early, as was evident in his personal journal. He and his staff discussed issues like abolishing the veiling of womenand the integration of women into the outside world. The clue on how he was planning to tackle the issue was stated in his journal on November 1915;

“ The social change can come by (1) educating capable mothers who are knowledgeable about life; (2) giving freedom to women; (3) a man can change his morals, thoughts, and feelings by leading a common life with a woman; as there is an inborn tendency towards the attraction of mutual affection.[90] ”
Mustafa Kemal needed a new civil code to establish his second major step of giving freedom to women. The first part was the education of girls and was established with the unification of education. On 4 October 1926, the new Turkish civil code passed. It was modelled after the Swiss Civil Code. Under the new code, women gained equality with men in such matters as inheritance and divorce. Mustafa Kemal did not consider gender a factor in social organization. According to his view, society marched towards its goal with men and women united. He believed that it was scientifically impossible for him to achieve progress and to become civilized if the gender separation continued as in Ottoman times.[91] During a meeting he declaimed:

“* To the women: Win for us the battle of education and you will do yet more for your country than we have been able to do. It is to you that I appeal.
To the men: If henceforward the women do not share in the social life of the nation, we shall never attain to our full development. We shall remain irremediably backward, incapable of treating on equal terms with the civilizations of the West*.[92] ”
In 1927, the State Art and Sculpture Museum (Turkish: _Ankara Resim ve Heykel Müzesi_) opened its doors. The museum highlighted sculpture, which was little practised in Turkey owing to the Islamic tradition of avoiding idolatry. Mustafa Kemal believed that "culture is the foundation of the Turkish Republic."[93] and described modern Turkey's ideological thrust as "a creation of patriotism blended with a lofty humanist ideal." He included both his own nation's creative legacy and what he saw as the admirable values of global civilization. The pre-Islamic culture of the Turks became the subject of extensive research, and particular emphasis was laid upon Turkish culture widespread before the Seljuk and Ottoman civilizations. He instigated study of Anatolian civilizations--Phrygians and Lydians, Sumerians and Hittites. To attract current public attention to past cultures, he personally named the "Sümerbank" (1932) after the Sumerians, and the "Etibank" (1935) after the Hittites. He also stressed the folk arts of the countryside as a wellspring of Turkish creativity.

In the spring of 1928, Mustafa Kemal met in Ankara with several linguists and professors from all over Turkey where he unveiled to them a plan of his to implement a new alphabet for the written Turkish language based on a modified Latin alphabet. The new Turkish alphabet would serve as a replacement for the old Arabic script and as a solution to the literacy problem in Turkey. When he asked them how long it would take to implement the new alphabet into the Turkish language, most of the professors and linguists said between three to five years. Mustafa Kemal was said to have scoffed and openly stated, "we shall do it in three to five months".[_citation needed_]

*Over the next several months, Mustafa Kemal pressed for the introduction of the new Turkish alphabet as well as made public announcements to the upcoming overhaul of the new alphabet. On 1 November 1928 he introduced the new Turkish alphabet and abolished the use of Arabic script. *At the time, literate citizens of the country comprised as little as 10% of the population. Dewey noted to Mustafa Kemal that learning how to read and write in Turkish with the Arabic script took roughly three years with rather strenuous methods at the elementary level.[79] They used the Ottoman Language written in the Arabic script with Arabic and Persian loan vocabulary.[79] The creation of the new Turkish alphabet as a variant of the Latin alphabet was undertaken by the _Language Commission_ (Turkish: _Dil Encümeni_) with the initiative of Mustafa Kemal.[79] The tutelage was received from an Ottoman-Armenian calligrapher Hagop Dilaçar.[94] The first Turkish newspaper using the new alphabet was published on 15 December 1928. Mustafa Kemal himself travelled the countryside in order to teach citizens the new alphabet. As he predicted, the country's adaptation to the new alphabet was very quick, and literacy in Turkey jumped from 10% to over 70% within two years.[_citation needed_] Beginning in 1932, the _People's Houses_ (Turkish: _Halk Evleri_) opened throughout the country in order to meet the requirement that people between the ages of four and 40 were required to learn the new alphabet as mandated. There were congresses for discussing the issues of copyright, public education and scientific publishing. Literacy reform was also supported by strengthening the private publishing sector with a new law on copyrights.

Mustafa Kemal promoted modern teaching methods at the primary education level, and Dewey took a place of honour.[79]Dewey presented a paradigmatic set of recommendations designed for developing societies that are moving towards modernity in his "Report and Recommendation for the Turkish educational system."[79] He was interested in adult educationfor the goal of forming a skill base in the country. Turkish women were taught not only child care, dress-making and household management, but also skills needed to join the economy outside the home. Turkish education became a state-supervised system, which was designed to create a skill base for the social and economic progress of the country.[95] His "unified" education program was designed to educate responsible citizens as well as useful and appreciated members of society.[79] Turkish education became an integrative system, aimed to alleviate poverty and used female education to establish gender equality.

Mustafa Kemal generated media attention to propagate modern education during this period. He instigated official education meetings called "Science Boards" and "Education Summits." to discuss the quality of education, training issues and certain basic educational principles. He said, "our schools [curriculum] should aim to provide opportunities for all pupils to learn and to achieve." He was personally engaged with the development of two textbooks. The first one was _Turkish: _Vatandaş İçin Medeni Bilgiler (1930). The second, _Geometry_ (1937), was a text for high schools. The _Vatandaş İçin Medeni Bilgiler_ (_Civic knowledge for the citizens_) introduced the science of comparative government and explained the means of administering public trust by explaining the rules of governance as applied to the new state institutions.

On 5 December 1934, Turkey moved to grant full political rights to women, before several other European nations. The equal rights of women in marriage had already been established in the earlier Turkish civil code.[109] Women's place in Mustafa Kemal's cultural reforms was best expressed in the civic book prepared under his supervision.[110] Mustafa Kemal said that

*“ There is no logical explanation for the political disenfranchisement of women. Any hesitation and negative mentality on this subject is nothing more than a fading social phenomenon of the past. ...Women must have the right to vote and to be elected; because democracy dictates that, because there are interests that women must defend, and because there are social duties that women must perform.[111]*


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

from what I have read-----"ataturk"   has become a dirty word
in some circles in Turkey------and he has been assigned
the MOST ODIOUS LIBEL -------he was a jooo in disguise.

I predict utter cesspoolness for Turkey------roudy----you
quoted my hubby-----"I will never set foot in a muslim country" 
sheeeesh-----and I really wanted to see Aden and dem dar
PYRAMIDS-----before they get knocked out of existence


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## Roudy (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> from what I have read-----"ataturk"   has become a dirty word
> in some circles in Turkey------and he has been assigned
> the MOST ODIOUS LIBEL -------he was a jooo in disguise.
> 
> ...



I won't, anybody who's lived as a minority among Muslims and had to leave will tell you the same. I get a lot of propositions to go to Turkey or Jordan (to see Petra) for vacations.  Especially Turkey, I heard its beautiful.  But...After what I and my family have experienced in Muslim countries, over and over.  I won't set foot.  Those societies simply cannot be trusted, people just don't understand the barbarism they are capable of.


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 2, 2014)

Roudy said:


> But such a thing as free speech does not exist in Muslim countries. Never did, and never will.




and if those who despise liberalism like Coyote and Toxic have their way, it will cease to exist here as well.

This entire "islamophobia" nonsense is just a ruse they use to try to move the west towards the same place as Islamic countries when it comes to the inviolate nature of this totalitarian ideology. The blasphemy and apostasy laws in place in all those Islamic countries aren't enough for them, since they are trying to influence discourse  to make it so here, as well.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Roudy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > from what I have read-----"ataturk"   has become a dirty word
> ...



Now, now----roudy---be nice and   'muslim'   and  'Emily'
will describe the  'beauty of islam"  and its wonderful
"constitutional"  protection of the right of all mankind.
Hubby often runs into people from his country of birth and
they like to remind him how  HAPPY  jews were living under the glorious system of utterly delightful dhimmia


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > When Judaism is attacked, the attackers are openly denounced by a large contingent of this board.  When Christianity is attacked - similar.  When Islam is attacked - that same contingent that would defend the others jumps on the bandwagon and joins in the hate.  Someone needs to speak up, present other view points or in some cases the truth.  It certainly won't be the likes of you and your ilk who are more likely to be seen demanding Islam be undesignated as a religion and that it's worshippers be deported or deprived of their civil rights.
> ...



You sure like to think you know what other people think don't you?  You don't.  You're just one more racist bigot who's admittted he's never even met a Muslim yet feels qualified to demonize them all.

All religions have their good and their dark sides.  When a group gets demonized with hate rhetoric - someone better speak up.  We've all seen where that kind of crap can lead.

I'm curious - what's your "solution" to the "Muslim problem" in America?  I'm sure you have one, despite never having met a Muslim, so let's hear it.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



you make a point that interests me  Coyote.      You accused
Dog of hating muslims without having met one.     Long ago--
when I was young   (and beautiful) ----I met LOTS AND LOTS of muslims----together with lots of other people from India,  Pakistan     Iran     even Ceylon  (well it WAS Ceylon)------of
those people-----the ones who really really hated jews----
were the muslims who never met a jew..     Hindus,  Sikhs,  etc etc did not hate jews-------some even had jewish friends---
usually in Bombay------but muslims from the northern parts
of India and from Pakistan   (the Ceylon people I knew were
Buddhist and hindu)   REALLY HATED JEWS.   It worked out
ok------they seemed to assume I am Christian-----that's how
I found out how much they hated jews-------they expected me
to share the opinion-------so I played along----sometimes.
One poor young Opthamologist from Pakistan was HORRIFIED at my claim to be a jew----he insisted  
   "IT's NOT TRUE"    
As to dog------what makes you think he hates "all muslims"-----did he ever say that?      Did he say just being born a muslim
is like proof of corruption like so many people say of jews-----
the ones I correctly call islamo nazis


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
> ...


Let me know when they're "on the radar", and we'll drone them to death, then nuke em' if that doesn't work

Untill then, freak out all you want


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Thank you....you just proved to me you're crazy


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



When people have never met "the other" it's easy to believe they aren't like other people and to believe in conspiracy theories and fear mongering.  The danger in actually meeting them and talking with them is that you might realize that they are just like other people - just as good, bad, pig-headed, ignorant, educated, smart, stupid....

Look at how the level of anti-semitism and wide spread acceptance of conspiracy theories has risen among the Palestinians.  With increased seperation over the years many have never met a Jew. 

As far as India - antisemitism among India's Hindus is around 18% - .not a miniscule number.

As far as Dogma's views to Muslims - I have yet to see a single post from him that doesn't totally villafy them as a whole - without distinction.   What other conclusion can be drawn?


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


Living in the west as you now are, you must find it frustrating to be limited to calling somebody a racist bigot for opposing your agenda.    I imagine you must long for the day when your numbers have increased sufficiently to get a right, proper fatwa issued to take care of your problem.


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...


I was quite the ardent ping pong player when at the university and used to hang out with lots of Saudis. They were better players as a rule and I wanted to hone my skills.  This was probably before she was born.   I have never said I haven't met any Muslims and she is simply lying.        It's what she does.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




The poll is meaningless------anti Semitism was imposed
upon  Hindus by the ----person now actually recognized by
the intelligentsia of india as having done more harm than good-----MAHATMA GANDHI-------he would have given his
liver to keep   INDIA UNIFIED and was happy to kiss-up
to muslims ---------the average indian is
still worshipping   Gandhi.    I got my history of india from
Hindus     and my history of Pakistan from muslims ------who
still live in the  MOGHUL EMPIRE in their dreams   ---both the
muslims from India  and the Muslims from Pakistan.-----btw---
as anti semitic are are hindus of india-------multiply that by
a million for the  ANTI HINDU  sentiments of the MUSLIMS OF  INDIA -----as in  "someday we'll drink their blood"-----I
was horrified that a surgeon from New Dehli felt that way
about his  hindu countrymen


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



your comment interests me    Dog.    Of the hundreds of muslims I have encountered-----the most opened and
NOT INTO THE  anti jewish crap was a Saudi.    ----he may
have been from the ROYAL FAMILY-------which is not really a big deal in Saudi Arabia-----there are thousands of them---but
they do get  STUFF------like money.    Chances are your fellow students were also  "princes"------the rest of Saudi Arabia------does not get "the money" or the scholarships. 
My Saudi colleague did not have much use for the system----
he was proud of ----his saudiness----sorta-----but seemed to
see its problems.    I got the impression that he would have been happy to never see Saudi Arabia again


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## CAPTCHATHIS (Dec 2, 2014)

I smell a movie, "Rosie and Kumar Go to White Castle"


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Dhimmis surrender their "radar" when they capitulate and cooperate with the captors.

You are a Muslim and if not, you POST like a Muslim.

That warrants treating you as an apologist for Islam.

Until it's shown otherwise.


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## Mojo2 (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



Did you know this?

*Striving to institute Worldwide Sharia Law is a religious duty of ALL Muslims. Including lovely, peaceful moderates.*


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 2, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> your comment interests me    Dog.    Of the hundreds of muslims I have encountered-----the most opened and
> NOT INTO THE  anti jewish crap was a Saudi.    ----he may
> have been from the ROYAL FAMILY-------which is not really a big deal in Saudi Arabia-----there are thousands of them---but
> they do get  STUFF------like money.    Chances are your fellow students were also  "princes"------the rest of Saudi Arabia------does not get "the money" or the scholarships.
> ...



The fellows I knew were Royals.  They loved their red corvettes, which they drove around campus when the rest of us were on bicycles.  Lots of Saudis were pouring into American Universities in the early 70s, often to study something like  engineering or geology.


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Of course I know it------I have been in contact with lots of muslims for more than 45 years------I know the stuff-
And now for the GOOD NEWS-------everyone in the world is
DELIGHTED to be under shariah law------it is the ideal
 state for ALL PEOPLE  -      IT IS PERFECT------better than chocolate five times per day-----on hallucinogenic mushrooms

Where have you been------ACHMADINEJAD himself----in his
INFINITE WISDOM-------stood like a slightly over grown
ferret-------in the   MAIN ASSEMBLY ROOM OF THE 
UN BUILDING    and announced  >>>

   **))))   ISLAM IS THE RELIGION FOR ALL MANKIND(((**

  did you see anyone----like  orderlies from Bellevue Hospital
  rush in ----tie him up in two straightjackets and DRAG HIM 
  OFF?-------nope--------so he must have been right!!!!!!!!!!!


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## irosie91 (Dec 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > your comment interests me    Dog.    Of the hundreds of muslims I have encountered-----the most opened and
> ...




yup----my Saudi was doing medical residency -----he ended up later on in  MONTEFIORE HOSPITAL ------that's the one
associated  with  Yeshiva University Medical school-------

    poor old   MONTEFIORE   probably turned over in his grave--------did you ever hear about EINSTEIN's encounter
with  Saudi Princeton boys  way back in the  50s?     The royals get it all over there---THOUSANDS OF THEM-----the
king had kids in every port


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



Not at all.  It's simply calling a spade a spade.



> I imagine you must long for the day when your numbers have increased sufficiently to get a right, proper fatwa issued to take care of your problem.



There you go again...


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## Coyote (Dec 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



This is what you said:



Dogmaphobe said:


> Are you sure it wasn't right about the second or third grade when you stopped reading?
> 
> * It is true that I do not know any Mulsims, though*.  Mulsims are very hard to find.
> 
> How odd, though, isn't it that you have proven how completely ignorant you are as to the attitudes towards apostasy in Islam, while I was the one who actually knew. I suppose that is because I have not stopped reading, while you never have.



If you met a Muslim you would "know" a Muslim.

Try to keep your lies straight when you're making shit up.


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## Roudy (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



And you just proved to me that you're about as ignorant as a redneck when it comes to the history of Turkey and the Middle East.   Like I said, your limited exposure in Turkey didn't count because you A- were in a very secular reformed country, with an anti Islamization culture in it's past, and B- Weren't really in touch with any minorities, so how the fuck would you know what the Muslim majority was doing to them?

 Good news is I'm not going to charge you for this free education, dufus.  Here's what is happening to all the reforms that Attaturk had brought about.  Telling the truth isn't crazy.  Ignoring it is:

4 Jarring Signs of Turkey s Growing Islamization - The Atlantic

Turn right at the omelet," said the gas-station attendant. We were standing on the outskirts of Edirne, a small city about two hours north of Istanbul. My Turkish is poor so I turned for help to my Turkish friend.

"Omelet?" I asked.

Turkey's building boom includes 17,000 new mosques constructed by the government since 2002.
"He meant outlet," he said, as in outlet mall. On today's Turkish highways, outlet malls are more common than caravanserais or roadside inns once were on the Silk Road. The malls are just one sign of the economic boom that is bringing western consumerism to the masses. Arriving in Istanbul from one of the phlegmatic economies of Europe or even from the United States is a jolt. Drive around western or central Turkey and you'll see new roads, high rises, and construction sites everywhere. Much of it comes from Middle Eastern oil money, much of it reinvested into industries such as automobile manufacture, textile, and food production. A recent trip revealed a Turkey that is wealthier than ever in its modern history.

And yet, the gas jockey had it right. For the average person, Westernization is about as deep as the difference between "omelet" and "outlet." The Turkish government wouldn't have it any other way. The Justice and Development Party (AKP) has been in power for more than ten years, with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in charge for most of them. Their goal is change. They want to make Turkey wealthy and Islamic. They have turned from the vaguely socialist policies of their predecessors to crony capitalism, and from the staunchly secular and pro-western policies established by Ataturk, the Republic's founder, to religious and Muslim-world-centered policies. They have abandoned Ataturk's non-interventionist stance for an active role in Egypt, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and now Syria.

Turkey's building boom includes 17,000 new mosques built by the government since 2002. The state is planning an enormous mosque, more than 150,000 square feet in size, to loom over Istanbul on a hill on the Asian side of the Bosphorus. Secularists are outraged, and an opposition leader, Republican People's Party (CHP) MP Mehmet Ali Ediboglu, calls this just another step in a process that, he claims, will end in an Islamic republic.

Whither Turkey? Erdogan's visit to Washington last week is a reminder of how important that question is. President Barack Obama has called Turkey a critical ally and has spoken of his friendship for the Turkish leader. Yet Erdogan is trying to change the Turkish constitution from a parliamentary to a presidential system -- with the hope, of course, that he will be the president. His opponent's charge that Erdogan's model is Russia's Putin, a virtual dictator by legal means.

A visitor can only wonder where Erdogan's country is headed. Consider four scenes from the road:

1) Lecturing in a public university on Turkey's western coast -- the country's secular region -- I saw a small but significant number of women wearing headscarves. The government not long ago overturned a ban on headscarves in public places. From the American point of view, that seems like a good thing and a move in favor of religious freedom. Turkish secularists, however, consider it the thin end of a wedge.

2) In Amasya in north-central Turkey sits the graceful Kapiaga Madrasa. It was built in the sixteenth century by Sultan Bayezit II, an enlightened ruler who welcomed Jews and Muslims expelled from Spain in 1492. The octagonal structure is constructed around a central, arcaded courtyard. A visitor encounters what sounds at first like the buzzing of bees. In fact, it is boys studying religious texts.

The day I saw the madrasa I was wearing a baseball cap purchased earlier at a Turkish naval museum. It was decorated with a Turkish flag and a historic warship. The students looked at me with a certain aloof surprise. I didn't realize that I was making a political statement, but my Turkish friend explained that the symbol was nationalist and secular in their eyes.

3) On the way to Edirne, we drove past the exit to Silivri. A summer resort, Silivri is also home to a huge prison. It houses hundreds of top military officers along with journalists, lawyers, and members of Parliament accused of plotting against the government. It is Turkey's answer to the Bastille, the notorious jail for political prisoners in pre-revolutionary France. With 47 reporters incarcerated, Turkey has been called the world's leading jailer of journalists.

4) Arriving in Istanbul at night after a trip to the Anatolian heartland, my friend drove down Baghdad Avenue -- the Rodeo Drive of Istanbul. Rock music and short skirts were on order, not headscarves and religious chanting. Political prisoners seemed far away. But the boys in the madrasa will soon be adults and the women in headscarves will be college graduates. What kind of a country will they build, I wondered, when they come to Istanbul and look up at its grand new mosque? And what will Turkey's future mean for Americans and our own long and troubled quest to build better relations with Muslim countries?

*Erdogan resurrects debates of Islamization*
*http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/02/09/193621.html*

*Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s comment that his government wants to “raise a religious youth” has touched a nerve in society, fuelling debates over an alleged “hidden agenda” to Islamize secular Turkey.

“We want to raise a religious youth,” said Erdogan, himself a graduate of a clerical school and the leader of the Islamist-rooted Justice and Development Party (AKP), during a parliamentary address last week.

“Do you expect the conservative democrat AK Party to raise an atheist generation? That might be your business, your mission, but not ours. We will raise a conservative and democratic generation embracing the nation’s values and principles,” he added.


Erdogan’s remarks drew strong criticism from the staunchly secular Republican People’s Party (CHP) founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, with its leader calling him a “religion-monger.”

“It is a sin to garner votes over religion. You are not religious but a religion-monger,” said Kemal Kilicdaroglu, accusing Erdogan of polarizing the country by touching its faultlines.

“I’m asking the prime minister: what can I do if I don’t want my child to be raised as religious and conservative?” wrote prominent liberal commentator Hasan Cemal in Milliyet daily.

“If you are going to train a religious and conservative generation in schools, what will happen to my child?” he asked.

Columnist Mehmet Ali Birand also criticized Erdogan this week in an article titled, “The race for piety will be our end.”

“What does it mean, really, that the state raises religious youth? Is this the first step towards a religious state?” he wrote in Hurriyet Daily News.

Erdogan must explain what he meant, otherwise a dangerous storm may erupt and go as far as fights about being religious versus being godless, he argued.

Neither religious nor political uniformity can be imposed on Turkey given regional, ethnic and sectarian diversity in the country, wrote Semih Idiz in Milliyet daily on Tuesday.

He said millions of people “have subscribed to secular lifestyles” even before the republic.

Erdogan’s AKP has been in power since 2002 and won a third term with nearly 50 percent of the vote in the 2011 elections, securing 325 seats in the 550-member parliament.

But since then the influence of the military, considered as guardian of secularism, has waned.

Dozens of retired and active army officers, academics, journalists and lawyers have been put behind bars in probes into alleged plots against Erdogan’s government.

Critics accuse the government of launching the probes as a tool to silence opponents and impose authoritarianism.

Secular quarters argue Erdogan’s conservative government is also step by step imposing religion in every aspect of life, saying many restaurants already refuse to serve alcohol during Ramadan.

They also criticize recent changes to legislation under which religious school graduates will now be able to access any university branch they like, while in the past they had only access to theology schools.

Birand expressed fears that the changes would not be confined to this and would lead to censorship in television broadcasts.

The Turkish television watchdog RTUK “will restrict all kissing scenes; they will confuse pornography with explicit broadcast and all television screens will be made pious,” he added.

“Then will come religious foundations. After them, it will be municipalities. All kinds of Koran teaching courses, legal or illegal, will mushroom.”

Observers say Erdogan’s message contradicts what he had said during a recent tour of Arab Spring countries, in September.

“As Recep Tayyip Erdogan I am a Muslim but not secular. But I am a prime minister of a secular country. People have the freedom to choose whether or not to be religious in a secular regime,” he said in an interview with an Egyptian TV, published by Turkish daily Vatan.

“The constitution in Turkey defines secularism as the state’s equal distance to every religion,” he said in remarks that provoked criticism from the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

*


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Mojo2 said:
> ...


You're crazy too.


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## Sally (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



I have never seen him vilify Muslims as a whole.  This is your imagination working overtime.   By the way, since you want to call people bigoted, how about you ask this devout Muslim doctor living here in America why he felt he had to narrate this documentary to warn people about how the radical Muslims want to take over America.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many Muslims here in America who wouldn't want to see other Muslims take over because then they would be back in the same boat as they were in before they fled to America for freedom.

The Third Jihad


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 2, 2014)

Coyote said:


> If you met a Muslim you would "know" a Muslim.
> 
> Try to keep your lies straight when you're making shit up.



Look at the spelling, idiot.

He spelled it "Mulsim", so I responded that I don't know any "Mulsims".

I may have to rescind the comments I have made in the past regarding my estimation that your intelligence is average.


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## Roudy (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



Maybe you think everybody is like you, the accidental Turkish tourist?






Yep..


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


None of the Turkish people I know would have any idea what you're talking about.

It's easy to be as far from reality as you are, having never lived with Muslims


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## toxicmedia (Dec 2, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > If you met a Muslim you would "know" a Muslim.
> ...


I'm sure you had to look up how to spell rescind.

Are you familiar with the psychological concept of  "projection"?

I'm sorry you feel so inadequate. Those college boys making more money than you, being smarter than you...must be tough


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## Roudy (Dec 2, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
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Kamal Attaturk is a national hero and the father of the Turkish nation.  Any semi educated Turk would know Attaturk.  Unless you hung out with some low class ignorant ones.  "Having never lived with Muslims" after everything that has transpired are you back to bragging about your tourist credentials?


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## Phoenall (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Mojo2 said:
> 
> 
> > The Right Wing Playbook on Anti-Muslim Extremism People For the American Way[/url]
> ...





Will you take first hand experience as evidence of Islamic ghettos and self imposed segregation. We had a problem area that was a run down inner city area that was once a vibrant centre of commerce. You could walk down the main street and see many small shops run by the many immigrants like Italians, Greeks, Germans etc. and be greeted in a friendly manner. Every year the small shops got together with the other traders and organised events for children around Easter and Christmas, bought and put up Christmas lights and had mince pies for everyone. Small presents for the children handed out by one of Santa,s helpers. Then the muslims moved in and everyone greeted them as friends and made them feel welcome, but very soon the bubble burst when the pavements outside their shops and homes became dumping grounds for all kinds of rubbish thrown straight out the front door. They became surly and unresponsive when asked to clean up the mess and dispose of it properly. Then the fights began not 1 on 1 verbal but 10 muslims armed with hammers and metal bars on 1  because he had called the police over the threats. Very soon the area started losing the community spirit as more and more shops shut and the place took on an air of dereliction. Streets littered with rocks so that cars had to drive slowly or risk damage, and the feral children throwing the rocks at the cars ( sounds a bit like Jerusalem doesn't it ) Then the real troubles began when cars were torched and the Fire brigade had bigger rocks thrown through their windscreens . Then the gangs started to gather on the outskirts and terrorise the neighbourhood until they sold up at less than the houses were worth rather than face the gangs. The locals organised patrols to contain the gangs and the police threatened them with arrest as vigilantes. In the end the local council was fighting for its political career so they instigated an urban renewal scheme and slapped all the houses with compulsory purchase orders and started demolition. Just moved the problem to another area and the same thing happened all over again. Now the muslim community is in its own little Beirut that is completely cut of from the rest of the world and is starting to arm itself ready for the upcoming civil war.

 Now you know why those who live with muslim violence daily speak out as they do, and distrust the muslims to the point of hatred


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## Phoenall (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
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 So what facts can you bring to the table to show that overall muslims are maligned and misunderstood pillars of the community. And I will bring the exact opposite to the table with evidence from every nation they have set foot in.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Roudy said:


> toxicmedia said:
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You're putting words in my mouth. It's quite easy for me to remember the many living rooms I sat in over there that have 2 pictures hanging on the wall. One of Ataturk, and the other a prophet.

_I understand_ your need to discredit my experiences over there, while _you_ probably don't. The subconscious is tricky that way. The conversations I had over there always involved lot's of questions about how Americans viewed Turks. I learned early on how genuinely hurt people would get when I told them Americans don't care about things they thought we would. After 911 when somehow, I forget the particulars, the Turkish press got ahold of comments someone made portraying Turks as the lap dog of American policy. THAT created Anti American sentiment. Another thing that would blindly outrage them, being a proud people...are your posts.

The last thing they need is you, a stranger, telling them all about how they are. I feel a little that way when I see you telling me stuff I already know quite well, and stuff that never entered any conversations I had over there.

What you can't possibly realize it what the average day is like for most Turks.

Some of the mind numbing hysterical rants...which you call posts...would not go down well at the Turkish dinner table. The stuff I see you alarmed about is created by politicians in a chaotic parliament, and doesn't affect the price of Domates and Peynir.

I'm simply relating my experiences over there, and I know it must be an obstacle to your abstracts.


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## irosie91 (Dec 3, 2014)

toxoid----your post is full of meaninglessness.     "turks are a proud people"------gee---even I knew that.     "someone said ---""the turks are lapdogs of the USA"-----what else is new?----a typical islamo Nazi pig libel.     I have heard  stuff like that about
every politician,  sect,  group  in the entire stinking UMMAH----
by any person out to vilify any given-----politician, sect, group----
etc etc.         Try not to demonstrate your stupidity


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxoid----your post is full of meaninglessness.     "turks are a proud people"------gee---even I knew that.     "someone said ---""the turks are lapdogs of the USA"-----what else is new?----a typical islamo Nazi pig libel.     I have heard  stuff like that about
> every politician,  sect,  group  in the entire stinking UMMAH----
> by any person out to vilify any given-----politician, sect, group----
> etc etc.         Try not to demonstrate your stupidity


You're brilliant.

So pointing out something YOU know means they're stupid?

Wow...how do you begin to unwind that?

You too can learn more about yourself by understanding the psychological concept of "projection"


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> ]I'm sure you had to look up how to spell rescind.
> 
> Are you familiar with the psychological concept of  "projection"?
> 
> I'm sorry you feel so inadequate. Those college boys making more money than you, being smarter than you...must be tough




An actual example of projection would be when antisemitic pieces of excrement like Coyote run around calling people bigoted racists for resisting the totalitarian ideology that is responsible for so much of it.


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## Phoenall (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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 Which prophets did they have pictures of, seeing these are disallowed in islam ?


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 3, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Which prophets did they have pictures of, seeing these are disallowed in islam ?




 The depth of ignorance shown by those who try to claim some sort of expertise can get downright laughable at times, can't it?

First, he displays that he is completely ignorant of the notion of apostasy. Now, it is aniconism.  

I await his next display of utter lack of knowledge most avidly.


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## Roudy (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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Do Turks eat that salted Bulgarian Peynir (cheese) as well? Iranians call it Panir Bulgari. I still love eating it with bread and watermelon.  Breakfast of champions.  I have never been to Turkey however I am sure Turks, like all other people are busy living their everyday lives. 

But yes, most of the things said on these anonymous boards can't be said in public, anywhere.  However, that does not mean there isn't any truth to them.


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Sally said:


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Show me a post where he has made a distinction between Islam and radical Islam, or said anything postive about Muslims.

Racists and anti-semites aren't the only bigots around you know.


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > Which prophets did they have pictures of, seeing these are disallowed in islam ?
> ...




Yes.  It can.  Please keep posting.  The entertainment value, at least, is worth it.


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## Roudy (Dec 3, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Unless they were Shiites. I know that Shiites put pictures of Ali up all the time, even in their mosques.  But Turks are usually Sunnis and Sunnis can't have displays of Mohammad.


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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I've brought multiple facts supported by data and sources "to the table" in a  number of threads.  The fact that you choose to ignore them does not mean I have to keep reposting them on demand.

I can bring - to the table - atrocities committed by Muslims, Jews,, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and Athiests.  I can also bring to the table good things brought about by Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Athiests.  There are plenty of examples of each.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Pretty much these dudes.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > Which prophets did they have pictures of, seeing these are disallowed in islam ?
> ...


Did I ever claim expertise on that crap?

I only stated I don't care, and none of the Muslims I met in the middle east talk about that.


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


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Must have hit a nerve


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Roudy said:


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That salty feta like cheese comes in a square blue aluminum can, not sure if it's from Bulgaria. But I loved the summer season Turkish breakfasts. Tomatos, those skinny mild green peppers, cucumbers, salty home made cured black olives, fresh bread from the corner bakery, tea, and preserves.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Roudy said:


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Ever heard of Alevis?

My ex wife's Father's side of the family were Kurdish, and her Mother's was Sunni.


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## Roudy (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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Yup. Like I said.  Look outside the picture you will see "Imam Ali". That's the main Shiite prophet. In many ways Shiites are like the Catholics of Islam.  They have Saints which they pray to or carry their pictures in their homes or at work.  And they have a lot more superstitious type traditions that Sunnis don't have. You must have gone out with a Shiite Turk. There are many of them in Iran as well. Many of them are from Azerbaijan, they are called Azari Turks. They are very different culturally than Turks from Turkey, who are more like Arabs.  Their food, music, dancing, and even their language is a little different.  I had a business partner who was an Iranian Azari Turk.


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## Roudy (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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I had heard the term but I just read a little just now. Apparently Alevi's and Alawites (as in Syrian rulers) are the same. They are Sunnis who believe in a mystical version of Islam, who hold Ali, the Shiite prophet in high reverence.  So I was wrong they were Sunnis, although the pic is indeed Ali. The other dude I'm not sure who he is. But a Turk would definitely know.

Someone once said, if you want to know why multiculturalism and diversity don't work, just take a look at the Middle East.  All these countries have been invaded and conquered by so many throughout history, leaving behind all these ethnicities that have been in limbo for hundreds of years, who at times are at war with other people's and tribes. The Kurds are one of these people, with a proud history.  

It's truly a mess there, the results of which we are seeing being played in the world stage now.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Roudy said:


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I'm not sure...I remember somebody saying something that puts resentful distance between Alewites and Alevis. But they also bad mouthed Shiites, Afghanis, Armenians, and Saudis. But the thing they were oppressed a bit for was because they were tradesmen. There were APC's rolling through the streets at night looking for trouble makers

They spent far less time talking religion than you and I do. One time, my Dede (grandpa) gave me an empty beer bottle to throw at the new Mosque across the street, he was tired of thos guys doing their thing 4 times a day.


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## Phoenall (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


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 How about the educational value as well, you learn something new about islam every day


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

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Yes, there are a few posters from whom I learn - I rate them with "informative"


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## Phoenall (Dec 3, 2014)

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 Never seen any facts from a non partisan source from you or any other team Palestine member, what I have seen is ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and LIES. Your good things will be in the minority compared to the bad things done by muslims to even their own. They will issue fatwahs that make other muslims apostates so they can mass murder them with impunity and a clear conscience. that is how they work on a system of self absolution so that their sins are forgiven, a good example would be a child raped and murdered by a muslim, all he need do is utter the prayer to allah and he is innocent of any crime again. Then he pays the family a set amount for the life of the child. This is why when they are engaging in terrorist acts they cry out allahu Akbar so they will go to paradise if they are killed.


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## Phoenall (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
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 You must have missed one as the call to prayer goes out 5 times a day, now they use cheap walkie talkies to call the faithfull to prayer after being hit with many noise abatement orders.
 The true arabs from Saudi look down on all the other muslims as scum and second class pretend muslims, so is it any wonder islam is so paranoid and sees hate round every corner


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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The Mosque accross the street had a PA system. But the guy had a pretty good voice, and did his own little riffs that would make us laugh.

I don't know about anybody who thought others were scum. Maybe snooty Saudis might do that. They way talked about people they didn't like was no different than I hear coming from people who hate liberals, or consrvatives, on this site.

Ya know...everywhere I went, terrorism was illegal, and most of the people I met thought terrorists were idiots. I was living at Lake Van in eastern Turkey during 911. Most of the people in the town came over at some point for Tea, and offered condolences, and expressed shock


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## toxicmedia (Dec 3, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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And by the way....I didn't really count how many times a day ptayer went out. I just remember it waking me up at something like 6:00am or whatever.

The moral of this story...is how little the Muslims I knew, NOT JUST IN TURKEY, talked about Islam.

You guys who are afraid Muslims will take over think of them waaaaay more than the average Muslim thinks about Americans. I wonder how they would react if I told them Americans think they'll actually try to take us over some day, and start killing Christians. They'd think some of us have lost it.

There are bad people over there, and their lives are generally NOT as exciting as ours. But they have Family....smile about as much, cry about as much, and so on....

whatever....your'e just going to say I'm some kind of nazi jew islamic thingy or whatever...I give up


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
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Well natch - any source that disagrees with you is going to be labled "ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA and LIES"  (and really now - what kind of silly point are you trying to make with the all caps?).



> *Your good things will be in the minority compared to the bad things done by muslims to even their own.* They will issue fatwahs that make other muslims apostates so they can mass murder them with impunity and a clear conscience. that is how they work on a system of self absolution so that their sins are forgiven, a good example would be a child raped and murdered by a muslim, all he need do is utter the prayer to allah and he is innocent of any crime again. Then he pays the family a set amount for the life of the child. This is why when they are engaging in terrorist acts they cry out allahu Akbar so they will go to paradise if they are killed.



That's a matter of opinion.

You do know if a child is raped and murdered by a Christian all he needs to do is "get saved" and he is absolved of any crime.  He doesn't even have to pay restitution.  And the Doctrine of Mental Reservation allows them to cover it up.


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
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.  "Informative" - I/e montelaciti, beezelbub, challenger, Penelope, Sunni man, cult smasher..........


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


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You have some strange ideas of "informative".  Some yes, some not so much.  But if you find the likes of cult smasher, Monte, and Penelope informative...well....it's a free country dude.


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## Sally (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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Sorry, but I am not going to waste my time looking at his previous posts.  I don't think any of us have given excuses for other groups who commit atrocities on others; however, if you were honest with yourself, you would admit that most of the atrocities being committed at this time in the world are being committed by Muslims.  I will always remember what an honest Muslim man in Pakistan said in a letter to the Editor of Dawn.com that if it was only a small percentage of Muslims who were terrorists that could mean in the millions of Muslims.  Perhaps you can show us where other groups are operating in so many different locations committing terrorism against innocent people that same way that the Muslims are doing these days.


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## Sally (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Roudy said:
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And here I was looking for a good recipe for lambs' testicles that I see in the meat department of Middle Eastern markets.  Since the Armenian Turks that I know say that their mother's dish using these are great, I should  ask them how she makes them unless you have a good recipe that you can pass on.


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
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It's your choice Sally.  I stand by what I say then.



> I don't think any of us have given excuses for other groups who commit atrocities on others;



True, you just ignore them.  Or excuse them (if the victims are Muslim like in Myanmar).



> however, if you were honest with yourself, you would admit that most of the atrocities being committed at this time in the world are being committed by Muslims.



Are they?

Check out Human Rights Watch: Human Rights Watch Defending Human Rights Worldwide
Also, check out the list of ongoing conflicts around the world and the associated death tolls.  Human atrocities are part and parcel of these conflicts. List of ongoing armed conflicts - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Many are in Islamic areas.  Many are not.  They're the ones you guys ignore despite the cost in human life.



> I will always remember what an honest Muslim man in Pakistan said in a letter to the Editor of Dawn.com that if it was only a small percentage of Muslims who were terrorists that could mean in the millions of Muslims.



Why do you think he's "honest"?  Do you think that's a reason to justify hate rhetoric against the the vast majority who aren't?  Did you know that a small percentage of white males are responsible for most of the crime in the US?



> Perhaps you can show us where other groups are operating in so many different locations committing terrorism against innocent people that same way that the Muslims are doing these days.



Check out the links.

I've posted threads on the Congo and Mexico and Myanmar amongst others.  You ignore them.


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## Sally (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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Do you not think that we can read the news and see what is going on in other areas of the world?  Go have your hissy fits because you can't stand to see any news brought up about the Muslims and what they are doing.  I will reiterate -- can  you show us any group that is committing atrocities in many different areas of the world such as the Muslims are doing?  Are the radical Hindus running off to Africa to murder innocent people there?  Are the Buddhists also running off with the Hindus to do same?  Whatever atrocities different groups are committing seem to be held in one area of the world.   It would be a pleasure to see you become as honest as that man Mohammed in Pakistan.


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## Coyote (Dec 3, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
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You asked me questions.  I answered them.

Now you're making a bunch of silly statements that show a lack of comprehension on what is going on around the world.  I don't think the Congolese care much about whether other religious sects are running around murdering people when their women are being brutally raped (necessating extensive surgery to bring them back to some normal functioning) and even infants are being sodomized and raped by the militias terrorizing them.  It would be a pleasure to see you even remotely interested in what is happening in some of these areas.

Now I expect your next response will be "this is the ME forum blah blah blah" but remember - you did ask first


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## Sally (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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Are you finished with your hissy fit?  Meanwhile I think most of us were quite aware of what these friendly Muslims did to innocent people in Mali, Kenya, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria, etc. the other week.  When you can show us that other groups are operating in various locations, come back and inform  us.


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## Dogmaphobe (Dec 3, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You have some strange ideas of "informative".  Some yes, some not so much.  But if you find the likes of cult smasher, Monte, and Penelope informative...well....it's a free country dude.



It is VERY informative to read the agendas of those such as you and these others.

To quote Sun Tzu on the subject, “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”


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## Roudy (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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Ha ha ha. You mean the call the prayer?  Depends on who's doing it. I actually knew some Jews and Christians who looked forward to hearing it believe it or not. Some of them have great voices. But most of the time it just sounds like someone stepped on a dog's tail and its and its now hollering in pain.  

But like I said so many have invaded the region and laid their "seeds" there, that it basically comes down to whoever is strong enough to rule at this time.  Democracy and free speech is an alien concept in the region, the only thing that people have responded to is fear and intimidation.  That is even how Mohammad rose to power, and how ISIS and all these terror organizations are gaining momentum today.


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## Roudy (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Phoenall said:
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Muslims don't talk about Islam to people of other faiths. But they do trash other faiths. For example as a Jew my Muslim employees would trash Christians, Armenians and Baha'is in front of me.  And when I wasn't around I'm pretty sure they'd do a whole skit on me and my religion.

Come on you can't be that naive. It's just people are.


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## irosie91 (Dec 3, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxoid----your post is full of meaninglessness.     "turks are a proud people"------gee---even I knew that.     "someone said ---""the turks are lapdogs of the USA"-----what else is new?----a typical islamo Nazi pig libel.     I have heard  stuff like that about
> ...




"Projection"  is an ego defense mechanism described by Freud-----you have no idea what it is -----you are clueless


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Phoenall said:
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 The age of consent for girls was 16 and they could not be married before that age, yet in the far flung rural areas girls as young as 6 were being married of to rich husbands and raped once they hit puberty. So just shows that laws without enforcement are just words.


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

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 And now the dictates of the Catholic church is that all serious crime must be reported and no absolution given. They are still guilty even after absolution and all the Catholic church does is free the soul of the criminal so they will be tested on their lifes work. Under islam the muslim need only reaffirm their commitment to allah and Mohamed and they are absolved of all blame, they even have a get out of jail clause for it   Insh Allah  or it is the will of god.


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## georgephillip (Dec 4, 2014)

*Islamophobia in the US



*
"Sandeep Singh was dragged 30 feet under a pick-up truck after the driver reportedly called him a terrorist, told him to go back to his country, and then mowed him down in the middle of 99th Street in New York City.

"Singh survived the ordeal, but he’s going to need skin grafts. He told police what happened and now Joseph Caleca of Long Island is charged with a hate crime. 'I was attacked because I am a Sikh and because I look like a Sikh,' Singh, 29, told reporters from his hospital bed. 'We need to create a world without hate.'”

*A world without hate in the greatest purveyor of violence in the world?

Islamophobia Makes a Comeback The American Conservative*


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## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

The experience of ----a few----but FAR TOO MANY  Sikhs in the
USA is no surprise to me.       (another boring story from my past)>>>>>Long ago when I worked in a large hospital in
a semi-rural/suburban part of the USA------I did notice that
for the middle American types who were the relatives of
the patients------anyone  "in foreign costume"  was instantaneously  "a reject"---------nothing like a Turban---(with a chin strap ---no less)    and a beard ------and a metal bangle
at the wrist to make them imagine that the martians have landed.       It was not New York and it was not.....now.-----
but that is how it was with some people and still is.
Considering that this event took place in New York-----and now----actually I am a little surprised.    There must be more
to it-------


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## Phoenall (Dec 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> *Islamophobia in the US
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 Since when have Sikh's been Islamic, you are clutching at straws again to demonise the Americans


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## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> georgephillip said:
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> 
> > *Islamophobia in the US
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Phoen-----way back in the early 70s and late 60s-----hubby was a student in London------
He was ----back then     PAKI BASHED.


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## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

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> toxicmedia said:
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I was given absolutely no access to recipes, or the kitchen for that matter. When I once tried to go in the kitchen to wash dishes, my mother in law chased me out, and my father in law shook his head. The kitchen is the domain of women wherever I went.

Sorry, I'd be glad to help if I could


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## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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yes----PURDAH------a very Islamic thing-----the dirt is ingrained thruout  Turkey and they want the WHOLE THING---
LOCK STOCK AND BARREL
It's  Erdogan's   political platform


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## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

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Sure, Turkey has been the crossroads for many an invasion...but the results have less to do with politics than they do customs. Hospitality is the resulting defense tool.

There are customs that involve inviting ANYONE into your home, and feeding them if they're hungry, that still are practiced...within reason.

Democracy has no problem in Turkey. Syria and Iraq...not so much.

As far as free speech. You can say anything you want, or hold any public demonstration you want...so long as it's approved (get a permit) from the city council. It always takes a bribe to get that done.


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## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


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BS <<<<  the "say anything you want"  part------not the
baksheesh  part


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## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

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What "hissy fit" is that Sally?  You asked me questions.  I politely answered.  Does that cause issues for you?


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## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > You have some strange ideas of "informative".  Some yes, some not so much.  But if you find the likes of cult smasher, Monte, and Penelope informative...well....it's a free country dude.
> ...



You have a vivid imagination and you sure seem to rent me an awful lot of head space.  I suggest you take up some hobbies that do not include attempted mind reading.


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## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



After years and years of abuse and cover up - finally.  But that does not extend to other Christian denominations - if you reaffirm your commitment to Jesus, all crimes go poof.  Really Phoenall, you're trying to extract a difference that isn't there.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

I fail to see how  "failing to make a distinction"   between
"radical muslims"     and  "muslims"  necessarily constitutes
"islamo phobia"   -------this idea is just as idiotic as claiming---
failure to express sympathy for a murder victim constitutes
support for the murderer.     I have noticed that the same
person who so declares----never objected to "failing to
make a distinction between  Zionists and  'radical Zionists'
as   JEW-O-PHOBIA"------the OVERWHELMING majority
of Zionists never caused harm to a muslim-----and lots have
created benefits for muslims


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...


Women being in charge in the kitchen has nothing to do with politics or Islam.

They have traditional man/woman marriages, and man/woman roles. Just like Christians in the bible belt here want for everyone.

Your reaction is just the kind of thing I was talking about when I say "that had nothing to do with what I experienced"

Do you honestly think my mother in law was thinking about Islam or Erdogan when she chased me off her turf?...the kitchen?....no, she probably thought I'd leave a mess, or wast food, or screw something up.

Do you think my father in law was thinking about Islam or Erdogan when he shook his head?....no, he thought I was a pussy, and knew I'd get run out sooner or later.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

You sound like a smart man.  My hubby's well trained to stay out of my way when I cook.  He's happy.  I'm happy.  Until it's time to do the dishes.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


My in laws were socialists, and tradesman. Their equivalent to Union types....and they never got permits approved. But that was because many in their neighborhood were known to have Kurdish associations in eastern Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and northern Syria. But they really didn't know any bad guys. Just the regular people that you can't imagine existing.

At any rate...they don't have a constitution that guarantees free speech. It's their country, and we shouldn't force our views of free speech. Canada doesn't interpret free speech the way we do, and you're not crying about them


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...




jerk----it is CULTURAL ------the social customs of muslims
are intertwined with  religion. -----Excluding men from the kitchen is-----a  CULTURAL ISSUE and IS RELATED TO PURDAH.     Your father-in-law was thinking of   "PROPER 
BEHAVIOR"     as it is in muslim societies    -----now try again----I know proper behavior in muslim societies-----my own hubby was born in a shariah cesspit and-----I have been
in the homes of many many many muslims-----i


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You sound like a smart man.  My hubby's well trained to stay out of my way when I cook.  He's happy.  I'm happy.  Until it's time to do the dishes.



glad you are all happy------you know nothing about that which is
considered acceptable, polite behavior in muslim societies.  
Walking into the KITCHEN  with a bunch of ladies therein----
would be something like walking into a bedroom
where in a bunch of ladies are doing their thing  during the
times of    PRIDE AND PREJUDICE  (remember?---the book)


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...




tell your in-laws about   BAKSHEEEESH-----they will get their
permits


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 4, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Since when have Sikh's been Islamic, you are clutching at straws again to demonise the Americans


*Tell your racist brothers to learn the difference between Sikhism and Islam:*
"Thirteen years ago in the wake of 9/11, there were hundreds of similar incidents of violence and discrimination against Sikhs, who despite being Indians practicing Sikhism, were often confused with Arab Muslims because of their long beards and their turbans, called _dastars_."

Islamophobia Makes a Comeback The American Conservative


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Since when have Sikh's been Islamic, you are clutching at straws again to demonise the Americans
> ...



HUNDREDS???       where?   there were a few cases of
attacks on Sikhs------in redneck  holes--------not  New York ----
the issue of a Sikh being attacked in NEW YORK-----is
weird------there must be more to this story-----maybe the attacker was  "from the 'hills' "


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> there must be more to this story-----maybe the attacker was "from the 'hills' "


From the hills of the occupied west bank, probably.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > there must be more to this story-----maybe the attacker was "from the 'hills' "
> ...



do you actually imagine that your post makes sense. ----
an interesting factoid is that  jews are not the only minority
groups fleeing  islamo Nazi filth who find refuge in Israel.
There are lots of   BAHAIs  and----Zoroastrians in Israel too---
besides Christians and Hindus..    Try to find an instance of one of them getting run over by a truck by a jew-----islamo Nazi..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


These cultural social customs pre-date Islam.

I'm guessing I'll have to elaborate on "pre-dates Islam"...that means the social customs were going on before Islam existed


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...




Yes they do-----all kinds of customs pre-date the  creeds that adopted them as part of    RELIGIOUS CUSTOM AND LAW     .         You made no point at all other than demonstrating once   AGAIN -----that you are very stupid.

Interestingly enough  ----the customs of Islamic societies----
FOLLOW islam wherever islam goes.   -------Person who
convert to islam  ALSO ADOPT THEM -----even in lands in which those particular customs are not prevalent


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


"Surely, those who believe, and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians, whoever have faith with true hearts in Allah and in the Last-day and do good deeds, their reward is with their Lord, and there shall be no fear for them nor any grief."

— Qur'an 2:62"

*Try to find a reason why we should believe any of your kosher SQUEALS, hasbarosie?*


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



why are you pulling that quotation out of the Koran-----you never read the Koran------only idiots  quote a book they never read       I did read the Koran ------the quotation has no
practical meaning in Islam.    Any person who rejects islam
as  the   ONLY AND UTTERLY CORRECT CREED ----is, very simply,  not a muslim.       The actual practical value of dictum is that   SABEANS and JEWS AND CHRISTIANS ---who accept the absolute supremacy of islam and the rapist pig as king----and his laws and oppressions, and extortions-----get to continue reading their religious books-----but only privately.    You have,  again, demonstrated your ignorance and stupidity----islamo Nazi.

the quotation is about as reassuring and honest as was the
   ARBEIT MACH FREI -----statement on the gates of
   AUSCHWITZ.     Tell it to Yazidis in Iraq------also subjected
   to the very same   KORANIC LAWS----right now---(btw--
   Zoroastrians were also considered monotheist enough to be
   dhimmis by the rapist pig of Arabia-----yazidis have the
   standing as did   sabeans and jews -------lucky them


----------



## suplex3000 (Dec 4, 2014)

Devide and rule. Don't forget it. It's a golden rule for every Empire which wants to survive.Exactly "survive" because even the most powerful Empire in whole history (Roman Empire) was ruined. So, American Empire devided the world into two part after the WWII, when the USSR had fallen American Empire found another enemy...Romans did it too...


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


The way you write makes it hard to tell if you're agreeing, or not.

It seems like wrote that many customs you attack, do pre-date Islam...but then call me stupid?

Is there something I'm missing, or did you just call me stupid for agreeing with you?...


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

suplex3000 said:


> Devide and rule. Don't forget it. It's a golden rule for every Empire which wants to survive.Exactly "survive" because even the most powerful Empire in whole history (Roman Empire) was ruined. So, American Empire devided the world into two part after the WWII, when the USSR had fallen American Empire found another enemy...Romans did it too...



the word is  DIVIDE-------ok----now we got that far----now even further-----your post is idiotic.   
There is actually no way of making a  useful comparison between the Roman empire and the  USA.      A more apt comparison would be between the
Ottoman empire and the Roman Empire.   BTW ---the USA
did  not    DEVIDE   the world  post World War II


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...




you are stupid------for not KNOWING that the aspects of
pre Islamic  custom and belief and law which were INCORPORATED  into islamic   Custom and Belief and Law---
do not constitute    ISLAAAAM.   They do.    
Your comment is something like claiming------
The English language is not the English language
because it includes bits and pieces of preexisting
languages------gee you are dim


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Not necessarily.

For example - customs such as female circumcision (which is erroneously associsated with Islam) are most prevalent in a countries covering a portion of Africa from Somalia to Senegal (east-west) and Egypt to Tanzania (north-south) -  with Ethiopia and Nigeria having the highest incidents.  It has not been adopted in Islamic societies outside those regions and non-Islamic societies within those areas practice it.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> .
> 
> 
> you are stupid------for not KNOWING that the aspects of
> ...




Did you misspell that last word?

Didn't you mean to say, "gee, you are Dhimmi?"


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...




Did you misspell that last word?

Didn't you mean to say, "gee, you are Dhimmi?"[/QUOTE]

typo


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



for example----coyote parroted the current islamo big lie----
In fact  female circumcision is mentioned in the Koran and traveled WITH islam wherever islam became IMPOSED to places in which it did not EXIST  before ISLAM  got there.    Female circumcision even exists in  PAKISTAN----with the "introduction"  amongst muslims as a -----relatively new
phenomenon       The reason for the big lie is that LATELY
Islamic clerics decided to do away with it.     The fact that muslim clerics have muslims parroting this lie is an excellent
example of their INFLUENCE on their  "willing to swallow"
anything said in a mosque  flocks and their facility in
historic revisionism.

I witnessed it first hand---in a mosque---more than 45 years
ago------the hate rant  (against Christians)   was so virulent
I almost vomited-------my hosts;,    muslims from southeast asia-- educated in muslim medical schools could not understand my objection ----"EVERYTHING HE SAID IS TRUE" !!!!!!!!!!   ------besides he had not even mentioned jews --------so what's it to  YOU?

muslims are not hitting so hard on JESUS  lately.   They seem to have stopped about 25 years ago-------when  ARAFART
actually went into a church and  PRAYED TO "LORD JESUS"---in conversational mode------it was quite a HOOT

PS    hindus and Buddhists in southeast asia do not practice
circumcision--------jews do it on boys even over there----but
at age 8 days-----muslims more like age 12.  ------the difference is obvious to those of us who have seen the results.     Somehow the practice for girls never seems to
have kicked off in  IRAN--much.     I do not know if that has
something to do with the Shiite thing--------I would not bother
to ask a shiiite right now------because now muslims are trying
to claim they never did it

What IS true is that both male and female circumcision does
precede  islam as a human activity----most believe it started ---LONG LONG ago in Egypt.    (the female kind-----as to the
male thing-----    ???   probably Egypt)


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Where in the Koran?

Why is it not in India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran, China, East Europe (the Stans) etc?

Nice try though.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




why is it that you MUST lie about this issue     Coyote?----it does exist----to some extent even in  IRAN  with no great
enthusiasm----and it does exist in PAKISTAN-------but you never met a Pakistani-------I have been in the homes of dozens------It exists in India too.    --------I no longer go to medical libraries-----as to the Koran------you forgot how to
read?      OH ---now I remember ----when I described the issue   of   Islamic confiscation of orphans------you called me
a liar------now go tell that to the thousands of  sudani Christian kids enslaved ----or better yet ----spit in their faces-----yazidis
too.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

for coyote----so far I have confirmed by google------that female circumcision is not only happening but on the rise thruout the
UMMAH-----however I cannot find information on the muslim
population of china-----so far.      ISIS has demanded it

try to stop lying,   coyote-----it is silly


----------



## Sally (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



It is quite obvious that you don't want anything derogatory said about Islam so you go into your hissy fits and start bringing up things done against Muslims by others (which no one is denying that these things happen).  Meanwhile, since the Muslims are operating against others in many locations on this planet, I am still waiting for you to inform us where groups such as Hindus and Buddhists are operating.  Surely you must have a list of locations where these bad, bad Hindus and Buddhists are busily having at it toward Muslims.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



by coincidence ------I happened to have been passing thru
an area of New York City   PACKED with people from
south east asia ---------Hindus,   Muslims,   Buddhists----
during the NEW YORK CITY RUNNING MARATHON

somehow----for some reason--------I notice a big police
presense in the   places with high concentrations
of muslims,       For some reason-----I got edgy whenever
I saw a lady veiled to the eyelashes in black----------sheessh---
   "what is that chick packing under them RAGS????"

   I DID SOMETHING MAGICAL----I HELD MY BREATH---
   THAT IS WHY NO BOMBS WENT OFF


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> for coyote---*-so far I have confirmed by google------that female circumcision is not only happening but on the rise thruout the
> UMMAH*-----however I cannot find information on the muslim
> population of china-----so far.      ISIS has demanded it
> 
> try to stop lying,   coyote-----it is silly



Source?

If you can google you can find the Muslim population of China.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > for coyote---*-so far I have confirmed by google------that female circumcision is not only happening but on the rise thruout the
> ...




you do it------I did a try and did not get information on
female circumcision of the muslim population of china.

HOWEVER-----keep in mind-----medical and crimestats are
compiled by the countries themselves.     For decades---following the description of  ACQUIRED COMBINED IMMUNODEFICIENCY DISEASE------described in the
NEW ENGLAND JOUNAL OF MEDICINE    1981-----
SAUDI ARABIA REPORTED   ***))))  NO CASES (((***
------that's    AIDS   btw.             Even muslim doctors
laughed         for decades lots of muslim countries reported
NO MENTAL ILLNESS


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> It is quite obvious that you don't want anything derogatory said about Islam so you go into your hissy fits and start bringing up things done against Muslims by others (which no one is denying that these things happen).  Meanwhile, since the Muslims are operating against others in many locations on this planet, I am still waiting for you to inform us where groups such as Hindus and Buddhists are operating.  Surely you must have a list of locations where these bad, bad Hindus and Buddhists are busily having at it toward Muslims.




 ....but you are talking to a Buddhaphobe, Christophobe, Judeophobe and, Hinduphobe here,  Sally.

At least by applying the same standards to this creature that she applies to others.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > It is quite obvious that you don't want anything derogatory said about Islam so you go into your hissy fits and start bringing up things done against Muslims by others (which no one is denying that these things happen).  Meanwhile, since the Muslims are operating against others in many locations on this planet, I am still waiting for you to inform us where groups such as Hindus and Buddhists are operating.  Surely you must have a list of locations where these bad, bad Hindus and Buddhists are busily having at it toward Muslims.
> ...



you missed   TAOPHOBE--------how about   SIKHOPHOBE?


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...




Silly Sally...if you think a polite conversation is a "hissy fit" then you haven't seen hissy.  As to your constant demands for more information - they've been provided ad nauseum in multiple threads.  If you don't choose to read them, then please stop repetetively demanding them.  Perhaps you can tell me why a woman who has been brutally raped in the conflict in Congo would care what Muslims are doing?  Or, perhaps why a Christian who has been subject to terrorism by Hindu Nationalist groups would care what Muslims are doing around the world or why Hindus terrorized by Islamists would care about what's happening in Syria?  Maybe you can tell the Buddhists in Myanmar to stop being so naughty and while you're at it, and smack ISIS on the bum for burning up the Middle East.  Maybe you can also spare a thought for the families in Mexico who's kids were murdered by corrupt police in league with politicians and drug cartels the families of Nigerians who's school children have been kidnapped (if they are girls) or killed (if they're boys) by Bhoko Haran.  You do care about innocent lives don't you?  Or is it only those killed by Muslims?  Just a thought silly woman


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > It is quite obvious that you don't want anything derogatory said about Islam so you go into your hissy fits and start bringing up things done against Muslims by others (which no one is denying that these things happen).  Meanwhile, since the Muslims are operating against others in many locations on this planet, I am still waiting for you to inform us where groups such as Hindus and Buddhists are operating.  Surely you must have a list of locations where these bad, bad Hindus and Buddhists are busily having at it toward Muslims.
> ...



You sound very phobic.  There's help for that


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> you missed   TAOPHOBE--------how about   SIKHOPHOBE?



Westerncivilizationphobe, decenyphobe, honestyphobe, rationalityphobe and humanophobe, too. 

Nothing else matters but the Islamic agenda.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

What Islamic Agenda would that be?  Is that like the mythical Gay Agenda?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> You sound very phobic.  There's help for that




You sound like a piece of excrement out to destroy this country from within.

I wish there were a cure other than sending you packing to somewhere that matches your agenda to make Islam inviolate.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


I all my time over there, not one person ever brought that up


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> What Islamic Agenda would that be?  Is that like the mythical Gay Agenda?




 Gay people wish to live in freedom.

You wish to destroy it. 

 Big difference.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



So Rosie, where is your source on female mutilation showing it is on the rise throughout the Islamic world?  Or is this another one of your stories?


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > What Islamic Agenda would that be?  Is that like the mythical Gay Agenda?
> ...



Not in the least.

I support everyone's right to live in freedom.  Unlike you, I don't restrict those rights to everyone-but-Muslims.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > You sound very phobic.  There's help for that
> ...



You sound seriously paranoid.  There's help for that.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Unless you've spent a lot of time in that part of Africa - particularly rural areas, you're not likely to encounter it.  It's not practiced in Turkey.


----------



## Sally (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



I think you need to fix your quotes Silly Sally...just saying.

The Thai conflict is complicated not so much religious as tribal/ethnic.  You might want to read up on it.


----------



## Sally (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Your dear friends are still murdering Buddhists in Thailand.  Close your eyes to it because it hasn't seemed to faze you in the past, and I doubt it will faze you in the future. 

Now a good idea for me, since Coyote is emulating her Muslim convert potential boyfriend, is for me to call her Crazy Coyote.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...




Not my friends Sallie.  Now you're getting even sillier.  But Crazy Coyote is ok.  I don't mind that.

What makes you think I'm closing my eyes to it?  There's conflict and human-driven atrocities occurring world wide.

Do you care?

I like to think you do.  You do seem fundamentally decent.  Even if you can't make yourself see beyond Muslim.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > You sound very phobic.  There's help for that
> ...


Funny, he doesn't sound like he's destroying America from within to me.

Do you know how crazy that stuff sounds?


----------



## Sally (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



I will reiterate, Miss Pazzo, we all read newspapers and other sources to see what is going on these days.  However, the big thing going on in many locations is what your Muslim friends are doing.  You can't stand to see anyone report on what is happening because of them.  Now I am meeting with a friend.  You just keeping on playing around on forums instead of actually doing the work you are paid to do, unless you happen to work for Muslim bosses and they are A OK with what you are doing.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


That's my thing...I'm only talking about the places I went in Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and a place west of Tabriz in Iran.

The stuff these people are talking about is just nothing like what I saw. They type with all these CAPS and it all sounds so hysterical.

If you took a picture of whats happening inside the heads of these folks, and actually had cameras posted in the homes of average Muslims in the middle east.......you'd find so little of what they're thinking to be part of reality


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...


Wait!......Mods get paid on this site?


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...



There are a few people on these boards that have actually lived in those areas and I always find their perspectives interesting and enlightening, whether or not I agree.  My experience is limited by those I've met here and they've been ordinary people with ordinary concerns


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




shhhhh damn-it!


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Your dear friends are still murdering Buddhists in Thailand.  Close your eyes to it because it hasn't seemed to faze you in the past, and I doubt it will faze you in the future.
> 
> Now a good idea for me, since Coyote is emulating her Muslim convert potential boyfriend, is for me to call her Crazy Coyote.




 This is certainly not the first board in which I have encountered this "Coyote", and the pattern is always the same. Whenever the subject matter has to do with Islam,Islamism, Islamic intolerance or any other aspect of this ideology, it responds by attacking anything BUT Islam, instead. The creature might attack Christians in one post, Hindus in another, Jews or Buddhists or whatever target Islamists target, but it never diverges from this pattern of behavior one iota. It couples these attacks against anything but Islam with charges of bigotry and racism lest one march in lockstep with it in regards to the notion that Islam is absolutely inviolate.

  There is no "Islamophobia".  It is perfectly rational for any member of western civilization to resist the agenda involved. It seeks to destroy everything we hold dear, and the utter duplicity of this underhanded creature that goes by the name of "Coyote" provides the very reason why it must be resisted.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxoid seems to believe that Egyptian and Turkish women
who were circumcised at age 8  would  be eager to announce
the fact to him


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



Well cool Sally - I think everyone should extract their bums from their chairs and take a gander around the block once in a while.  I've done my five mile run, and if you are undully concerned about my personal and professional life, don't be though I appreciate your concern.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Your dear friends are still murdering Buddhists in Thailand.  Close your eyes to it because it hasn't seemed to faze you in the past, and I doubt it will faze you in the future.
> ...




Dude...I've been on these boards a long time.  Whether they like me or hate me - they do know me and my attitudes my positions.  You can sit down now.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxoid seems to believe that Egyptian and *Turkish women
> who were circumcised at age 8 * would  be eager to announce
> the fact to him



Link?  Egyptian - yes, that is one of the countries listed for genital mutilation (it's part of N. Africa).  Turkey?


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...


I hate to be that guy.....but I have talked to guys who spent time in the military in Iraq and Afghanistan, and people who've stayed in Dubai or Saudi Arabia working for oil companies.....but the thing about that is how those groups don't "live" with Muslims. I understand the Saudi companies have compounds for Americans, and the military, well.......

There is something about eating, sleeping, crying, laughing, snoring, and living through tough or good times with people that allows you to get to know them in ways you can't if you're fighting them or seperated from them.

What I'm saying is nothing new...but these people "reading" about Muslims from people who hate, or are angry at, Muslims.....they're just not considering how distant their perspective might be. They may have correct information about many things...but they lack everything in between, which would reveal how few and far between most of those things are.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> ]Funny, he doesn't sound like he's destroying America from within to me.
> 
> Do you know how crazy that stuff sounds?



Coyote claims to be female. 

 That aside, these attacks on free speech by trying to make it impossible to counter Islamism ARE attempts to destroy one of the pillars of our liberal society -- the right to free speech, and the right to freedom of thought are intrinsic to our way of life, and this idiotic crap about "Islamophobia" is nothing but a naked attempt to destroy it.   By condemning  the expression of any thought running contrary to Islamism, the practitioner of this brand of agitprop is trying to create  defacto censorship as a maneuver towards the ultimate goal of removing the possibility of countering Islamism altogether.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxoid seems to believe that Egyptian and Turkish women
> who were circumcised at age 8  would  be eager to announce
> the fact to him


I don't believe that.......hell.....I don't even understand that.....

Wha-wha the world?.......


----------



## Coyote (Dec 4, 2014)

I found the sub-conversation here between you and Roudy very interesting - differences between peoples and attitudes etc. in the Middle East.  There's always something to learn and often people's personal experiences give color to what would otherwise be dry facts.  I also like to watch movies made by independent film makers from around the world - usually they are small scale, and focus on local things but they are fascinating windows into the lives there.

People are diverse and need to be looked at as individuals.  Every group has it's asses and it's heros.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > ]Funny, he doesn't sound like he's destroying America from within to me.
> ...


Islam doesn't restrict free speech. Just some of the ass holes practicing Islam push that crap


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > toxoid seems to believe that Egyptian and *Turkish women
> ...



yes----not very prevalent-----but practiced amongst the muslims----something like Iran----
Egypt----VERY PREVALENT----but outlawed now------still prevalent


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> I found the sub-conversation here between you and Roudy very interesting - differences between peoples and attitudes etc. in the Middle East.  There's always something to learn and often people's personal experiences give color to what would otherwise be dry facts.  I also like to watch movies made by independent film makers from around the world - usually they are small scale, and focus on local things but they are fascinating windows into the lives there.
> 
> People are diverse and need to be looked at as individuals.  Every group has it's asses and it's heros.




yeah----right     screw anthropology   WE ARE ALL THE SAME


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> ]Islam doesn't restrict free speech. Just some of the ass holes practicing Islam push that crap




Ah, so THAT'S why there are all those blasphemy laws in all those Islamic countries. 

You are a profoundly ignorant individual.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > ]Islam doesn't restrict free speech. Just some of the ass holes practicing Islam push that crap
> ...



the uttered word is of extreme importance in Islamic societies and in the filth of shariah.     In fact,   the phase  "the filth of shariah"    uttered by a non muslim is a capital crime


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> I found the sub-conversation here between you and Roudy very interesting - differences between peoples and attitudes etc. in the Middle East.  There's always something to learn and often people's personal experiences give color to what would otherwise be dry facts.  I also like to watch movies made by independent film makers from around the world - usually they are small scale, and focus on local things but they are fascinating windows into the lives there.
> 
> People are diverse and need to be looked at as individuals.  Every group has it's asses and it's heros.




got that everyone?      the sciences ---Anthropology and
Sociology have been nullified in favor of a   "Coyote/client" 
model          Group or societal behavior has no place in the
behavioral sciences-------One on one clinical evaluation is the
only way to describe human behavior.     Customs, laws, 
creeds are all meaningless


----------



## Sally (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



How about you sitting down and start doing the work for which you are getting paid for?   One thing I think is very, very strange is that Coyote can't stand to see anything derogatory said about Islam and starts dragging up other groups, but yet she has to know that most of the people being murdered by Muslims are other Muslims.  Right now the total is over 200,000 dead in  Syria and Iraq, and most of the dead are Muslims killed by other Muslims.  She also has to be aware of all the car and suicide bombings in places like Pakistan where the Shia and Ahmadiyya are the victims of the Sunnis.


----------



## Sally (Dec 4, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Yes, you have a great professional life -- on the forums all day long instead of doing the work you are paid to do (unless this is what you are paid to do).


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > ]Funny, he doesn't sound like he's destroying America from within to me.
> ...


If you have made attempts to counter Islamism, your freedom of speech is in tact. People who reject your attempts are practicing their free speech as well. Free speech does not always mean people must take your side.

Islamophobia, in my opinion, is as inaccurate as Homophoba. People aren't afraid of gays, they disapprove of them. The same goes for people who disapprove of Muslims.

Censorship is when you say something, and it's redacted, or you're restricted from saying it in the first place. You have said your piece, without restriction.


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > ]Islam doesn't restrict free speech. Just some of the ass holes practicing Islam push that crap
> ...


You need to blame the country, not the religion.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 4, 2014)

toxicmedia said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > toxicmedia said:
> ...




yeah----any country that uses as a law code---_SHARIAH -----
    READ THE KORAN----just writing a jingle about
    the  RAPIST PIG  is a capital crime


----------



## toxicmedia (Dec 4, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> toxicmedia said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...


You're really not very stable are you.....


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...





 Back then people were uneducated and did not know the difference between an apple and an orange, today we are better educated and should be able to spot a Sikh. And we should be able to tell the difference between a muslim and a Sikh


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...





 No it is purely a Catholic thing, something the muslims latched onto and made it easier to do. For a Catholic to do it they need to go to church, then go to confession, then take the penance to wash their soul clean. The body/person is not absolved of any crime and can still be arrested and charged by the Catholic authorities . Under islam once the criminal has proclaimed that allah is the only god then he can not be arrested in an Islamic state as he has invoked sharia law and absolved himself of any wrongdoing.  

You should really research islam more compared to Christianity and Judaism


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

I am amazed that a person  (coyote)  who can read and write
(and breathe)  can manage to know so little about the major
religions in the USA. ----I am referring to Catholicism,  various
sects of Protestantism,   islam and Judaism.  ----- sheeeesh 
coyote.      and the "logic"--------"it's ok that muslims have
murdered for allah in the hundreds of millions----I can cite
a case of a Baptist -----who murdered a child 42 years ago"


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

Sally said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



No idea what you are talking about Sally....yet here you are....again


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> I am amazed that a person  (coyote)  who can read and write
> (and breathe)  can manage to know so little about the major
> religions in the USA. ----I am referring to Catholicism,  various
> sects of Protestantism,   islam and Judaism.  ----- sheeeesh
> ...



So Rosie....did you ever find that link on the rise of female genital mutilation around the Islamic world, particularly in Turkey?  Or, is this one of your "stories"?  You tell such interesting "stories"


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > I found the sub-conversation here between you and Roudy very interesting - differences between peoples and attitudes etc. in the Middle East.  There's always something to learn and often people's personal experiences give color to what would otherwise be dry facts.  I also like to watch movies made by independent film makers from around the world - usually they are small scale, and focus on local things but they are fascinating windows into the lives there.
> ...



Once again you are not making any sense.  I found Roudy and Toxicmedia's conversation interesting and enlightening.  You, not so much.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Uh.  No.  It's not "purely a Catholic thing".  Why do you think Christian conversions are so popular in prisons.  They give themselves to Jesus (and there is no limit on the number of times) and they are absolved.  Of course in states with secular systems of law that doesn't mean they can't be arrested but from a religious point of view they are innocent again.

Now as to your statement on criminal law in Islamic states - that isn't actually true or the prisons would be empty.  But they aren't.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote continues to spew her filth into cyberspace----in
support of the murder of millions and the rape and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of children-------


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote continues to spew her filth into cyberspace----in
> support of the murder of millions and the rape and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of children-------



No link then Rosie?


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote continues to spew her filth into cyberspace----in
> ...



visit a nice big medical library-----and do a search on
FGM------your  "god"   in Iraq------bigbad-daddy    has
mandated the filth you are so eager to deny even exists.

In fact------some time ago you insisted I am a liar for
citing the DHIMMI ORPHAN LAW    (that galvanized the
escape of my mother-in-law from a shariah shit hole.)----
now you can go on dancing on the broken bodies of the kids
who are being raped and enslaved in PIOUS OBSERVANCE
of that very  "HOLY SHARIAH"    law.    You are disgusting

for those who do not know-----"you tell stories"  from the mouths and keyboards of the intensely vulgar is a shitty little
slur suggesting  "lies"


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

for the record----coyote's claim that the way to get out of jail for murder is  "FIND CHRIST"  is sheer nonsense-------never happened      She is a liar.       Conversion to islam is very
common in jail-------it allows the criminal ---on release---for
murder people.     One of my clients described his time in jail
to me-----HE CONVERTED TO ISLAM------I asked  "why"?    his answer was    "I WANTED TO SURVIVE"


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Ok...Readers Digest Version...you have no link to back up your "story"


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> for the record----coyote's claim that the way to get out of jail for murder is  "FIND CHRIST"  is sheer nonsense-------never happened      She is a liar.       Conversion to islam is very
> common in jail-------it allows the criminal ---on release---for
> murder people.     One of my clients described his time in jail
> to me-----HE CONVERTED TO ISLAM------I asked  "why"?    his answer was    "I WANTED TO SURVIVE"



Religion in Prisons 8211 A 50-State Survey of Prison Chaplains Pew Research Center s Religion Public Life Project


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




I did not give you a link for the DHIMMI ORPHAN LAW EITHER-------   your point?---------you did manage to find
it yourself--------by easy google-------but never had the decency to apologize for your filthy  vulgar   "LIAR"   fart.

More kids are being subjected to both forms of filth -----that YOU DEFEND  with your disgusting  DENIALS


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



I didn't ask for a link for the orphan law.

You make claims, and then you can't support them so you lash out.

If you can't support your claim on genital mutilation,  then admit you made it up.  Or provide a source.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > for the record----coyote's claim that the way to get out of jail for murder is  "FIND CHRIST"  is sheer nonsense-------never happened      She is a liar.       Conversion to islam is very
> ...




How UTTERLY impressive-----a whole bunch of white protestant  ministers -----prison chaplains by vocation---
state that  religious education is important in prison-----
you got anything on that islamo Nazi libel that for a Christian
criminal to get out of jail all he has to do is  "FIND CHRIST"??

I am a jew-----short----darkhaired and very fair complexion-----
I worked with hundreds of young educated muslims in the course of my life------long ago when I was young---and RIGHT THERE at the front desk of a large hospital------the young docs talked to me-------they actually thought that I could tell
them stuff like  "where to buy beer"  (nope)        As long as
they thought me a Christian-----I did not get the Islamic take
on  Christianity------but I did hear all about JOOOOOOS

well---I was young and chock full of ethics----so always ----
corrected the misapprenhension-----"I am a jew"----ok ----
now I got the Islamic take on  Christianity--------
in the Islamic school system     CHRISTIANITY IS DISGUSTING-------"you can do any crime and make the guilt go away by confessing to a priest".       Coyote is parroting
islamo Nazi propaganda as taught to muslims in Pakistan---India,   Indonesia-----and---now Iran (but not back then---
back then Teheran muslims still knew lots of jews and had
not yet been so fully hit with the filth of islamo Nazi propaganda.-----in fact-----back then even Egyptians had not
yet been so thoroughly brainwashed)

BTW-----having a 'POPE"     is a big libel too-----(the eastern orthos have  "patriarchs" ------another  "libel"   ---used
by islamo Nazis as if it is a sure sign of Christian depravity)

keep up the holy jihad,   coyote


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




ROFLMAO    exactly how you tried to discount the fact of the dhimmi orphan law as you happily danced on the broken bodies of thousands of enslaved Sudanese Christian kids


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

PS----I am the source-------decades of reading the medical literature-------remember professional journals?      REAL SOURCES


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> PS----I am the source-------decades of reading the medical literature-------remember professional journals?      REAL SOURCES


Ah...ok.  We finally arrive at the truth.  The claim is another one of your "stories".


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > PS----I am the source-------decades of reading the medical literature-------remember professional journals?      REAL SOURCES
> ...




yes---we arrived at the truth-----millions of dead bodies----millions raped  -----kids enslaved---for rape and abuse purposes-------their lives trivialized by filth like you who insist----
 "THERE WAS A CASE OF A BUDDHIST KILLING A MUSLIM IN BURMA----thus proving everyone is just as
depraved as are the islamo Nazis coyote adores"


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about.




Those last five words were completely unnecessary.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 5, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



We were talking about female genital mutilation and whether it is a cultural tradition or Islamic.  You claimed it was mentioned in the Koran (but provided no link) and you claimed it was on the increase through out the Islamic world including Turkey (but provided no link).  The rest - I have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 5, 2014)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about.
> ...




it's a snide sloppy SNOTTYISM -----makes coyote feel  good


----------



## Sally (Dec 5, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...





Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Yippie ki yay  -- it's Friday again.  Bosses and staff get off but one loyal hard worker is left to hold down the fort and she is true to form every Friday.  Meanwhile, while she is trying to defend Islam, no matter what many Muslims do, there are many Muslims who are showing us just what they are about, even when it comes to the usual car and suicide bombings where they kill each other.  Do the innocent Muslims really deserve to have to live like that, and do all the non-Muslim victims of Muslims have to do same?  However, the world goes on, and there is always something happening.


Pakistan Christian Post

Bangladesh Awami League men swoop on Hindus vandalise temple Blazing Cat Fur

Al-Shabab claims responsibility for killing 36 quarry workers in Kenya La Prensa America in English

Iran A dozen women stabbed and injured by Basij in southern city - Updated 

Churches in Azerbaijan Told to 8220 Liquidate 8221 Themselves Persecution News


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...





 There is no absolution in the Anglican faith, no confessions and no penances to perform. That is purely a Catholic practise and is peculiar to them. The vast majority of conversions in prison are too the Islamic faith were they are given better food and treatment under Human Rights laws, then find they cant get out of their clutches when they are released. Under protestant rules if you commit a crime you can not be absolved of blame by the church and be seen as innocent, you are guilty of the crime and must face mans punishment first, and then Gods


----------



## Phoenall (Dec 6, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...






 If FGM was not a problem as you claim then why has the UK passed a law making it illegal to remove a child from the UK for the purpose of FGM. The sentence is a mandatory prison term and removal of all children into care. This because the practise amongst muslims in the UK was on the rise and the NHS was refusing to do the operations. The back street practioners were bodging so many of the mutilations that the NHS were reporting 2 or 3 a week to the police. And yes it was predominantly a muslim thing, with a few African Christians carrying it out as well.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...




coyote is on a mission----as super liar ---to deny the fact that
more than 99%  of  FMG------are done as an adherence to the
BEAUTY OF ISLAAAAAM


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




YOu are addressing an islamo Nazi  libel-----Libels are the galvanizing forces in virtually all progroms, lynchings, and
terrorist attacks--------do not expect the persons who support the program to give them up


----------



## Coyote (Dec 6, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



You've built a strawman here.  Perhaps you have not read the entire exchange between Rosie and I.

First of all - I never claimed FGM was not a problem.  What I said was:
FGM is an example of a CULTURAL tradition, not a RELIGIOUS tradition.  
FGM is most prevalent in a stretch of Africa that includes Islamic and non-Islamic communities.

Rosie claimed that:
1) FGM is mentioned in the Koran
2) It is on the rise throught the Islamic world including Turkey

I asked her for proof of those two claims upon which she ducked, diverted and had a meltdown.

Now do you want to discard your strawman?


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



In her incessant mendacity and filth of character---Coyote lied
AGAIN  ------and again.    The facts are that   FGM is
mentioned in the Koran------easy to find.       and the facts are FGM is a practice which exists in almost every muslim poplation even in places that never harbored that custom
(or in the view of many Islamic clerics---a religious imperative)
prior to the time  'ISLAM GOT THERE'     The overwhelming
majority of acts of  FGM----even today ----after muslim clerics
(recently) have been considering doing away with it are done
amongs muslims      It is also a custom in some African non
muslim  communities.     This is not the first time that the very vulgar  Coyote has demonstrated her filth and resorted  to the typical islamo Nazi pig    "PROVE IT"-------the  demand  "PROVE IT"   are very typical islamo Nazi pig    lingo.
I began hearing it as soon as I encountered large numbers of
muslims

Anyone interested in FGM----employ google and better
yet visit a large medical library if you can get in.   Coyote is
an apologist for lots of filth and a liar  and is vulgar.   In the
past I did sometimes go to the trouble of coming up with
links to demonstrate her mendacity-----but anyone can
do it and I have no interest in wasting my time on islamo Nazi
propagandaists-------even if she is in mourning for yet
another of here  heroes   ALOIS BRUNNER----

"  PROVE THAT THE KORAN IS NOT THE ONE AND ONLY
PERFECT WORD OF  ALLAH"  <<<   bullshit
"  PROVE THAT THERE ARE NOT MILLIONS OF VERSIONS
OF THE TORAH AND THE BOOK IS NOT ALTERED
EVERY TUESDAY AND THURSDAY BY THE  'ZIONISTS'  <<<
    more  coyo-bullshit

   I was even told that  it was the MOSSAD that created
   the civil war between   east Pakistan and West Pakistan
   in  1971-----"-PROVE IT NOT TRUE."

   THE BULLSHIT LIES THAT GOT SHOT OUT OF THE
    MOUTHS OF MUSLIM KIDS IN  QUEENS,  BRONX AND
    BROOKLYN  NY----IN REFERENCE TO COYOTES
    FAVE DAY      9-11-01 --------ARE TOO COYOTE LIKE
    TO QUOTE

    Some of the stuff that I got treated to over the years is
    funny----but if I recount those incidents----the MOST
    VULGAR has a tendency to use the same vulgar
     inuenendos that it employed above-----I did warn
     about the child confiscation customs of islam a few
     years ago----the sow
     laughed------and is till laughing as kids are being
     raped and enslaved in the HOLY CALIPHATE
     ---Child confiscation is growing in scope right now
     to her depraved delight.   For those who do not know---muslims
     and their apologists DEFEND that act  as being one that
  ;  provides  a home to the children of the men they murder
     (however orphans of any cause are considered enslavable
      under the filth of the shariah that Coyote so adores---keep in
      mind----slave means legal sex object  (male or female)  in
      Islamic law-----thousands of Sudanese Christians remain
      enslaved to the filth coyote supports


----------



## Coyote (Dec 6, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Goodness.  That's a meltdown indeed.

If it's mentioned in the Koran, it should be easy for you to provide a link to your claim.


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




more filth from Coyote -------when I come up with a link ----
expect---"that's not Koran-----that's  HADITH"


----------



## Coyote (Dec 6, 2014)

So stop dancing around and come up with the link already.

And don't forget the claim about Turkey.


----------



## Coyote (Dec 6, 2014)

I'll help you out Rosie:
Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Coyote---in her incessant defense of filth----is quoting
the   Islamic generated sophistry regarding  FGM-----
I am a bit surprised that she does not defend the dhimmi
orphan law as to her fellows as a  HUMANITARIAN 
ACT FOR THE CARE OF ORPHANS


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Coyote said:


> So stop dancing around and come up with the link already.
> 
> And don't forget the claim about Turkey.



 Nope-----I do not take direction from islamo Nazi sows.
BTW-----the DHIMMI orphan law is the rationale for the
enslavement of tens of thousands of Sudanese Christian
children----an issue not resolved because there are people
like you in the world.    Are you still mourning the fact that
my mother-in-law escaped the filth you so love?-----she did so
barely-----a few more years in Aden and she and her kids
might have been dead as a result of anther one of your
faves-----1947 pogroms      Turkey?   I do not recall mentioning Turkey and its growing filth-----but go right
ahead and look yourself-----your fellows are delighted
that the stink of shariah grows in Turkey


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Coyote said:


> I'll help you out Rosie:
> Religious views on female genital mutilation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia




I don't do WIKKI--------I have been aware of  FGM--for many years-----UP CLOSE-----at vulva level-----there is nothing that an islamo Nazi apologist can tell me about it   ----Of course I have been close to the stink of islamo Nazi propaganda for more than
half a century------you smell of it


----------



## irosie91 (Dec 6, 2014)

Anyone interested in the details of the  ancient Egyptian custom
of   Female genital "modification"-----which spread to various parts of Africa and into Arabia in ancient times and is now almost entirely an Islamic custom------feel free to ask.  
There are
many different techniques employed by both muslims and
by the few African non muslims who still engage in the
custom.    Today there is some attempt to stop it-----
even amongst muslims------but there is also some resistence
to that trend-----it has been mandated in the HOLY CALIPHATE
for the sake of allah.

Anyone interested in confiscation of orphans under
Islamic law----feel free to ask-----my very own mother-in-law--
escaped that horror----way back in the  1930s.       Historically
it is an interesting issue-----ATATURK  had outlawed it-----
in his bid to rid the Ottoman empire of the filth of shariah----
but backwoods shariah shit holes even in the Ottoman
empire fought to preserve it.     Shariah is growing in appeal
in Turkey------in fact it's  Erdogan's election platform.    

FGM is not prevalent in Turkey right now----but it does exist---when I find the article which I read regarding its
RESURGENCE-----I will let you guys know.

for Koran-------check it yourselves----if someone says  "that's not Koran ,   that's  Hadith"-----understand that such responses are  BS--------no matter---it's what muslims
consider  "holy".    The allusion in the Koran(or hadiths)
is small----but definitely present
   Based on some Archaeological finds
in the Middle east   ----it seems to have been something
going on in   Canaan----not surprising since it was started
in Egypt   (or so they say)


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## Phoenall (Dec 7, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...





 No strawman at all it has spread into the M.E and Arabian peninsular and became a sign of Islamic religious traditions. It is more widespread in Islamic cultures than it is in any other due to the misogyny in islam. Wait until later and I will provide the evidence for you


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




coyote lies -     in the Islamic tradition-------most people know
that the turks lied about the fact that they brutally and barbarically murdered  Armenians----simply beheading whole
families  and hacking others to death for the GLORY OF ALLAH-----1915 - 17------but that filth is only the tip of the genocidal iceberg of the filth which coyote adores


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## Phoenall (Dec 7, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


>





 MORE ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


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## Coyote (Dec 7, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Anyone interested in the details of the  ancient Egyptian custom
> of   Female genital "modification"-----which spread to various parts of Africa and into Arabia in ancient times and is now almost entirely an Islamic custom------feel free to ask.
> There are
> many different techniques employed by both muslims and
> ...



You claimed it was in the Koran and it wasn't.  It's in a few - very few Hadiths one of which is considered to be a poor source by Islamic scholars and the others are disputed by scholars as to their meaning.  It should be stamped out, like Sati was but it's probably going to be harder in the rural/tribal areas and in Africa where it's culturally entrenched regardless of religion.  What's sad is it is often women themselves demanding it for their daughters.  Actually Rosie...I think we may be in agreement here.


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## Coyote (Dec 7, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



The strawman was you claiming I said FGM was not a problem.  It is.  However it's a cultural tradition that predates Islam and was not a part of Islam originally though it's become associated with Islam probably through it's spread into Africa. It is most prevalent in a portion  of Africa where both Christian and Muslim communities do it.  It needs to be irradicated and in many countries it is now illegal or strictly curtailed.  (Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It's a barbaric practice (yet it is often women who demand it) and it is decreasing in many areas fortunately.  
_In Kenya and Tanzania, women aged 45–49 years were three times more likely to have been cut than the 15–19 cohort. In Benin, Central African Republic, Iraq, Liberia and Nigeria the figure for the 15–19 group had dropped by about half.[97] Prevalence rates in Chad, Djibouti, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen remained roughly the same.[97] If the rate of decline continues, the number of women and girls affected by FGM in the key 29 countries will have increased by 2050 from 125 million to 196 million because of population growth.[96]_


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



Coyote is lying again-----FGM follows islam----not just to Africa --it is even done in Pakistan----since islam got there. 
Until very recently----the largest percentage of  FGM victims per population----was Egyptian muslims  ----the practice was
probably started in Egypt----spread to various parts of Africa and to Arabia------and thence followed islam----it is mentioned in the Koran  (or hadiths-----if you say "Koran"---because 
you read it in the Koran------propagandaists  GOT YOU

very few Coptic Christians are victims of  FGM.   Denial
of the facts that I presented is  Islamic historic revisionism
on par with the current claim that  Jesus spoke arabic


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone interested in the details of the  ancient Egyptian custom
> ...




see?     told  ya----_HADITHS--------the typical islamo Nazi fart----"its not Koran its Hadiths-------  ROFLMAO --------tantamount to saying   "its not in jewish literature----just the Talmud".        The over whelming majority of the millions of
FGM'ed girls living today are muslim and it was done
for the glory of allah.     Try to live with reality,  Coyote----there
are still muslim clerics who support it as a religious
obligation-------as well as some primitive black tribes---
fairly recent partial Christians who still practice it----along
with voodoo

anyone interested----just google     FGM in Pakistan ------then   Coyote will try to convince you that that Christian missionaries  imposed it on muslims


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## Coyote (Dec 7, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



From what I read, FGM has gone on at least 2000 years and probably started in Egypt and independently in some parts of Africa as part of puberty rituals.  You're wrong about the Copts though.  "_The prevalence of FGM in the Copts is lower than that in Muslim Egyptian society but, nevertheless, it’s still high: 92% in Muslims and 74% in Copts, a difference of 18%_." Source: PREVALENCE OF AND SUPPORT FOR FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION WITHIN THE COPTS OF EGYPT UNICEF REPORT 2013 ON COPTIC NATIONALISM 

It is not in the Koran, and what is in the sparse hadith mentions is disputed. From a religious perspective it should be easy to stamp out.


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## Coyote (Dec 7, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



You said it was in the Koran - it wasn't.  The link I provided showed it was in one hadith who's authenticity was disputed, and a couple others who's translation was in dispute.  Nothing about it being done for the "glory of Allah".  It's a perverted cultural practice that predates Islam.



> Try to live with reality,  Coyote----there
> are still muslim clerics who support it as a religious
> obligation-------as well as some primitive black tribes---
> fairly recent partial Christians who still practice it----along
> with voodoo



Yes, there are muslim clerics who support it.  There are people who support Sati still.  But the prevalence of FGM is going down as more and more countries outlaw it.  Primative black tribes?  Fairly recent "partial" Christians"?  Are you referring to the Copts?



> anyone interested----just google     FGM in Pakistan ------then   Coyote will try to convince you that that Christian missionaries  imposed it on muslims



Now you're being stupid.  FGM predated Christianity and Christian missionaries, though Christians in those parts of Africa practice FGM.  So do Jews in Ethiopia.


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



ROFLMAO-----you claimed that they don't do it Egypt-----make up your mind-------yes  "still high"  means its happening----but with far less frequency than in the Islamic
population------right---you finally decided to agree with me
that it started in Egypt------gee thanks,,    and from there spread to various lands in Africa and it is mentioned in the Koran/hadith  damned book-----BTW---the overwhelming majority of persons now circumcised are muslims and the
practice  TRAVELED with islam--------it did not travel with
Christianity-----or Hinduism ---or Buddhism-----ISLAAAAAM

That  ~70 %  figure-----includes the elderly----when FGM was
actually an EGYPTIAN CUSTOM------the biggers obstacle
in stamping out the practice is that so many muslim clerics
still DEMAND it 

FGM in primitive African tribes is something like  a  coming of
age  "tribulation"   horror.   ----and,  preceded islam-------just as it preceded islam in Arabia------but then ARAB customs
got around------via the   GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC 
CONQUEST-------try to cope    Coyote

of course male circumcision got around via the
GLORIOUS AGE OF JEWISH CONQUEST----
-----to wit---migration to the new world and to England
and the glorious advent of  Hebrew National hot dogs


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## Coyote (Dec 7, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



I never claimed they didn't do it in Egypt.  I specifically included Egypt as part of the eastern edge of the African belt where it is most prevalent.  Go back and read my first post on the subject.

I don't consider 74% to be a low number or 18% to be far less.  It's occurring among Egyption copts at a very high rate.



> T*hat  ~70 %  figure-----includes the elderly*----when FGM was
> actually an EGYPTIAN CUSTOM------the biggers obstacle
> in stamping out the practice is that so many muslim clerics
> still DEMAND it



As does the Islamic percentage.  Egypt outlawed it in 2007 I believe.



> FGM in primitive African tribes is something like  a  coming of
> age  "tribulation"   horror.   ----and,  preceded islam-------just as it preceded islam in Arabia------but then ARAB customs
> got around------via the   GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC
> CONQUEST-------try to cope    Coyote



Yes, it preceded Islam.



> of course male circumcision got around via the
> GLORIOUS AGE OF JEWISH CONQUEST----
> -----to wit---migration to the new world and to England
> and the glorious advent of  Hebrew National hot dogs



Hot dogs and circumcision....interesting juxtaposition...


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



reality means nothing to coyote


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

I wonder when the  Hadiths referring to   FGM----suddenly became    "questionable and poorly translated"    ----
FGM  in  Saudi Arabia is described as "prevalent"-----
I wonder how it got to that somewhat isolated highly
CONTROLLED  land--------------maybe coyote will tell us
that    LAWRENCE OF ARABIA  introduced it.


when considering that issue----it is important to understand
that medical and criminal stats are supplied  BY EACH 
COUNTRY itself------for more than half the years since  1981  and the first descriptions of    AIDS-------Saudi Arabia reported
its incidence as   ZERO------even the muslims in medical conferences laughed------------Nobody is insane in muslim lands----unless they fail in their  Islamic piety


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




IT IS AN EGYPTIAN CUSTOM------from ancient times------
Egypt ventured into Africa to get slaves-----with the help
of arabs.      I read all of your idiot posts including your attempt to divorce   FGM  from the  muslim population there---
where it is  very very prevalent------copts began giving it up
long before muslims did------of course copts were already doing it long before islam was invented-------but it is not for that reason that  MUSLIMS started doing it-----muslims got it
from arab invaders-----and even before the advent of islam----
from  BEDOUINS  who---traveled from Arabia----even before the advent of islam and their "reversion"  to that filth.    The muslims of Arabia picked it up from Lawrence of Arabia------
RIGHT?   primitive tent dwelling   Bedouins in the Arabian
desert do it because Christians do it-------right?


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## Coyote (Dec 7, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> I wonder when the  *Hadiths referring to   FGM----suddenly became    "questionable and poorly translated" *   ----
> FGM  in  Saudi Arabia is described as "prevalent"-----
> I wonder how it got to that somewhat isolated highly
> CONTROLLED  land--------------maybe coyote will tell us
> that    LAWRENCE OF ARABIA  introduced it.



It was in that initial link that I posted.

As to the second - most likely from Egypt.



> when considering that issue----it is important to understand
> that medical and criminal stats are supplied  BY EACH
> COUNTRY itself------for more than half the years since  1981  and the first descriptions of    AIDS-------Saudi Arabia reported
> its incidence as   ZERO------even the muslims in medical conferences laughed------------Nobody is insane in muslim lands----unless they fail in their  Islamic piety



They aren't necessarily reported by each country - they get reported by various human rights organizations as well.

Edited to add: but you might be right as to the overall difficulty in getting accurate information.  Here's another article I found: IRIN humanitarian news and analysis from Africa Asia and the Middle East - updated daily


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder when the  *Hadiths referring to   FGM----suddenly became    "questionable and poorly translated" *   ----
> ...



wrong-----all  WHO STATS-----   come from the individual
countries which is why  Saudi Arabia ----reported no AIDS  to
the entertainment of all participants in  AIDS  conferences since  1981  -------criminal stats-----same thing-----

NGO's do not provide the stats as to how many crimes
are committed or how many are in jail or what is going
on in hospitals and clinics--------ESPECIALLY not in
Saudi Arabia.      -----over there ------give out the real stats and you die


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## irosie91 (Dec 7, 2014)

PS   what is  "it"  that appeared in what  "link"-----
how about a citation  for your allegation that the
Hadith  which contains an allusion to  FGM----
is  "IN QUESTION"-----along with the date of
the  "question"--------maybe  Pickthall and  ali Yusuf can RETRANSLATE their stuff


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## Coyote (Dec 7, 2014)

Hmmm...here's another good article on it:  
 Religion or Culture Stop FGM Middle East

_Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.

However, on the village level, those who commit the practice offer a mix of cultural and religious reasons for the practice. Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut._

It gives a pretty good explanation on the difering opinions of Islam on FGM and how it's intertwined with the culture.

It concludes: "Culture and Religion are both contributing to the prevalance of FGM. Thus, they must be adressed both at the same time." 

So I stand corrected on the role Islam plays in the problem.


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## irosie91 (Dec 9, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Hmmm...here's another good article on it:
> Religion or Culture Stop FGM Middle East
> 
> _Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.
> ...




you are not at all   "corrected"------were you corrected you would admit that   the VASTLY OVERWHELMING majority of FGM-----are done by muslims on muslims--------you prefer for your own agenda to exaggerate the execeptions-----which are
the non muslims in today's world which copied the practice from muslims-------the exception to that situation would be
Egyptians who retain it as a custom which developed in ancient Egypt.         In today's world even people of south east asia engage in this custom completely foreign to south east asia until MUSLIMS introduced it.    -------cold beet borscht is a prominent part of JEWISH CUISINE<<< true
statement  ---(even finicky me agreed to eat it as a child)---
jews did not invent it-------it originates in POLAND-----In the
US today------as 100 people walking in the street  "you eat beet borscht with sour cream"-------the overwhelming majority who answer   "yes" -----are jews--------it has become part of jewish culture just as  FGM is part of Islam TODAY.

after you do that------tell your friends that   CUMIN  did not
exist in tacos until Europeans brought it------having to it from the middle east. -----------and tell people waiting on line to get
into the  CURRY HOUSE  ----capsaicin----is New to INDIA ----
   Krishna never tasted it

Today
  Capsaicin    >>>>INDIAN
  CUMIN   >>> big part Mexican catholic cuisine
  Potato Latkes >>>  the Maccabees never did them
  FGM ------MOSTLY muslim

            never forget------all spice is Jamaican----but everyone
                 uses it now


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## Phoenall (Dec 10, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone interested in the details of the  ancient Egyptian custom
> ...






 You do know that all hadiths are said to be a poor source by Islamic clerics when they show the true nature of islam. Take the ones regarding Ayesha alone that the clerics claim


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## Coyote (Dec 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



No.  They are researched for authenticity by Islamic clerics and scholars - some are considered less accurate or authentic.  Opinions can differ among schools of thought.  The dispute about Ayesha's age uses a lot of historical events to track her age which lends credibility.  Not all Hadith's are "equal" and everything was written after Mohammed's death was it not?


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## Coyote (Dec 11, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm...here's another good article on it:
> ...



The practice predated Islam in many parts of the world.  And in those parts of the world - it exists among all religious groups at a VERY HIGH rate.  You tried to claim that it was rare among Copts but it clearly was not.  It was common in Egypt well before Islam, and also in parts of Africa.  It may  have spread with Islam but it existed and "flourished" independent of Islam as well in those cultures.


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## irosie91 (Dec 11, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




if you imagine you are telling me something I have
not either read or been told ----by Islamic sources--
you are wrong.     As to the Ayesha age debate----I have
also read that idiot sophistry-----and never cared.    I have
never called Muhummad a pedophile------DANTE was in love with Beatrice and that fact never bothered me either


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## irosie91 (Dec 11, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



what are "those cultures"?        It is thought to have started
in  Egypt------Egypt did have extensive contact with Africa thru
the slave trade-----REMEMBER??  ----so it spread to Africa ---PRE ISLAM  ----it also spread to the major slave traders ----
the ARABIANS ----pre islam.      It got to PAKISTAN VIA ISLAM         It got to IRAN via islam------you still lose     The only place it exist at a significant rate amongst religions other than islam-------is Egypt and the slave hunting grounds of
the arab slave traders.    Zoroastrians and Greeks don't do it. 
Today the OVERWHELMING majority of  FGM 's are done
on muslims by muslims


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## irosie91 (Dec 11, 2014)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



from coyote  "The practice predated Islam in many parts of the world.  And in those parts of the world - it exists among all religious groups at a VERY HIGH rate.

wrong again------the jews of Alexandria Egypt-----
did not do it in ancient times when it was very popular
in Egypt       The jews of Arabia did not do it   ----the only
jews known to have so engaged  (but with limited
prevalence)  are the jews of Ethiopia-------Zoroastrians do
not do it ------there were lots of Zoroastrians in Arabia pre islam-------they did not pick up the habit but the Arabians did---which is why it exists   IN ISLAM but not in Zoroastrianism----
you should get out more


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## montelatici (Dec 11, 2014)

Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.


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## irosie91 (Dec 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.



they have stopped and did not do it as much as did the muslims of  Ethiopia-------they have been OUT OF TOUCH  with other jews for millennia and in a sense demonstrate the fact that jews---GENERALLY do not do FGM   even in those lands where
the practice is PREVALENT  (as it was in PRE ISLAMIC ARABIA)  ------like shariah cesspits..      They even have a whole bunch of off the standard concepts of keeping kosher------etc etc         Beta Israel is a kind of -----separate issue


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## Sally (Dec 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.



Hmm, I wonder if Haniya (or the guy who popped in under her screen name who said his wife was born in Spain -- almost like playing musical chairs) can tell us if this is going to be a big practice among Muslims in the U.S.  Already there have been cases of that here, as well as honor killings.  It is sad enough that both are still taking place in the Muslim world, but I hope that is where they keep it.


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## Phoenall (Dec 11, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...





 As was the Koran and the earliest known version was not written until 100 years after his death, does this make the Koran not also a poor source of anything ?
 The Koran today is written in Arabic while the original was written in Kufic and is completely different to the original.


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## Phoenall (Dec 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.






 Evidence from a non partisan source ?


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## Phoenall (Dec 11, 2014)

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.
> ...





 Lets call them what they are MURDERS and MUTILATIONS in the name of islam, that way no one is under any illusion that it is correct to carry them out.


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## Coyote (Dec 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.
> ...



Ethiopian Jewish Women Jewish Women s Archive


> *MASCULINITY AND FEMININITY *
> Among the Beta Israel in Ethiopia, masculinity was an ultimate value. The Amharic language is full of expressions praising men and degrading women. Shillele war songs, also sung at weddings and other ceremonious occasions, are designed to arouse male bravery before battle (cf. Herman 1999). A well-known Amharic proverb says:” It is good to beat donkeys and women.” Men’s sexual organs are, by definition, the source of their masculinity. *Female genital surgery, or female circumcision (otherwise known as genital mutilation), was normative among Beta Israel women *(Grisaru et al. 1997). In Beta Israel society, men had to gain sexual prowess. They were allowed to experiment during the stage of adolescence (goramsa), whereas females had to be virgins at marriage, which usually took place close after first menstruation. While males were expected to be sexually experienced, Beta Israel females could be excommunicated if they were not virgins at marriage. Although marriage is officially monogamous, in practice Beta Israel men sometimes entered polygamous unions with a second wife, or relations with a common-law wife, a concubine, a slave (barya), or simply a divorced woman (galamotta) who was searching for “protection” in Ethiopian terms (Weil 1991). A rich man could have several women, usually residing in different villages, so that there was little knowledge of the other women or contact between them. There are many cases of an older man marrying a younger bride, sometimes even a teenager or a virgin, thus proving his status and wealth to the society at large. Whereas masculinity was symbolized by the staff which every Beta Israel male carries in Ethiopia, femininity was symbolized by blood.


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## montelatici (Dec 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.
> ...



Is the Jewish Women's Archive non-partisan?  By the way, why don't you never link to a non-partisan source yet require others to do so?  

"Female genital surgery, or female circumcision (otherwise known as genital mutilation), was normative among Beta Israel women (Grisaru et al. 1997). "

Ethiopian Jewish Women Jewish Women s Archive


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## montelatici (Dec 11, 2014)

Coyote beat me to the punch. Phoney always, always steps in it. LOL


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## Coyote (Dec 11, 2014)

Sally said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.
> ...




It's not.  Neither is honor killings.  There will always be the odd case that people will try to use as an example.  FGM CAN be eliminated - the practice among Ethiopian Jews (once they moved to Israel) and Beduoin Israeli'  was successfully ended for example: http://doctorsonly.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Successful-Cultural-Change.pdf


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## Coyote (Dec 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Coyote beat me to the punch. Phoney always, always steps in it. LOL



and never provides "unbiased sources"


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## Coyote (Dec 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



It makes the sources all open to criticism - much like the NT, all of which was written after Christ's death and amended, deleted, etc by numerous Churches.  Biblical scholars reject some as not well supported and others as legitimate.  The Hadith's are no different.


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## irosie91 (Dec 11, 2014)

Coyote said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



you should read your own citations-----those Ethiopian jews
who had engaged in FGM-----stated that no longer wished to
so engage------many of the Bedouin who engaged----stated that they would continue to do so------


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## Sally (Dec 11, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



Regardless of their wish to carry this tradition on elsewhere, I do hope that it eventually stops here in the United States.  

America s Underground Female Genital Mutilation Crisis - The Daily Beast


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## Coyote (Dec 11, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...


*

Summary*
_Our three studies taken together suggest that belief
systems and group identity are the key determinants
for efforts to eradicate FGM. Ethiopian Jews, who
practiced a major form of FGM in Ethiopia, give up
the custom upon arrival in Israel and no reports exist
among pediatricians, gynecologists or the press of
FGM among Jews of Ethiopian origin in Israel. *Some*
Muslim Bedouin tribes in Israel in 1995 saw FGM
as an important part of their culture,* but in practice
performed only a symbolic operation*. *By 2008 it had
effectively disappeared* (21)._


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## montelatici (Dec 11, 2014)

Yes, trying to claim that a certain people are genetically "bad" or somehow less worthy, smacks of racism.


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## Sally (Dec 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Yes, trying to claim that a certain people are genetically "bad" or somehow less worthy, smacks of racism.



Really, that is certainly strange then that an Egytian Muslim acquaintance of an old friend of mine told her that she believes that there were many physical disabilities in her own famility because of cousin marriages.  Was this Muslim woman racist?


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## montelatici (Dec 11, 2014)

I am not Jewish, I am a Roman Catholic, FFS.


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## Darkwind (Dec 11, 2014)

Penelope said:


> *Promoting Islamophobia
> The Main Purveyors of Islamophobia*
> Written by *Hillary Smith
> The Roots*
> ...


Would you like to meet the real purveyors of Islamophobia?


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