# Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, legendary vietnamese freedom fighter, turns 100



## José (Aug 4, 2011)

Võ Nguyên Giáp (born August 25, 1911) is a retired Vietnamese officer in the Vietnam People's Army and a politician. He was a principal commander in two wars: the First Indochina War (1946&#8211;1954) and the Vietnam War (1960&#8211;1975). He participated in the following historically significant battles: L&#7841;ng S&#417;n (1950); Hòa Bình (1951&#8211;1952); &#272;i&#7879;n Biên Ph&#7911; (1954); the T&#7871;t Offensive (1968); the Easter Offensive (1972); and the final H&#7891; Chí Minh Campaign (1975).

He was the most prominent military commander besides H&#7891; Chí Minh during the war and was responsible for major operations and leadership until the war ended.

Vo Nguyen Giap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







Võ Nguyên Giáp in 2008






Võ Nguyên Giáp (left) and H&#7891; Chí Minh in Hà N&#7897;i, October 1945






This picture taken in March 1954 shows General Vo Nguyen Giap (4th R-black top) explaining operation plans to his aids next to a military map at his PC in Dien Bien Phu. Second only to Ho Chi Minh as the most revered figure in Vietnam's recent history, Giap's only military lesson came from an old encyclopeadia entry describing the mechanism of hand grenades. But despite his lack of formal training, the former history teacher went on in 1954 to secure victory at Dien Bien Phu, the battle that ended French rule in Indochina, and precipatated nearly two decades of US involvement in Vietnam. Vietnam will mark 13 March 2004 the 50th anniversary of the start of the siege of Dien Bien Phu, the epic battle that precipitated the collapse of French colonial rule in Indochina.






After visiting the Cu Chi tunnels, the general takes a nap under bamboos (1996).​
Photo from Getty Images

VietNamNet - Never-published pictures of Legendary General Vo Nguyen Giap | Never-published pictures of Legendary General Vo Nguyen Giap


----------



## daveman (Aug 4, 2011)

Clean up when you're done.


----------



## José (Aug 5, 2011)

daveman said:


> Clean up when you're done.



At least I choose my heroes carefully, which is more than I can say about you, daveman. 

You're a grotesque caricature of a mentally retarded super patriotic american clown who's never seen a US soldier's asshole he didn't want to lick to help him save on toilet paper no matter how unjust and immoral his "service" was.


----------



## Sallow (Aug 5, 2011)

José;3959065 said:
			
		

> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Clean up when you're done.
> ...



No please..don't hold back.

Mild jabs always deserve overwhelmingly disgusting insults as a retort.


----------



## Two Thumbs (Aug 5, 2011)

Giap attacked the right people and new how to use them to his advantage

The American liberal flopped like a frenchman even though we had not lost a single battle and they lost 10 times the people we did.

I wonder if Jane Fonda got an invite?


----------



## ginscpy (Aug 5, 2011)

A hero of the far-left


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

The "legendary fighter" was defeated in every battle in VietNam. If it wasn't for Giap's support by Walter Cronkite and the rest of the American liberal media he would have faded away in obscurity after the TET offensive.


----------



## José (Aug 5, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> A hero of the far-left



No, a hero of every decent human being who believe in *the principle of the right to self-determination of peoples*.

The same principle invoked by the american people when they put in power a slave owner named George Washington.

Giap's communist belief is as irrelevant to the issue at hand as Washington's racist, classist and sexist ideas.


----------



## José (Aug 5, 2011)

> Originally posted by *whitehall*
> The "legendary fighter" was defeated in every battle in VietNam. If it wasn't for Giap's support by Walter Cronkite and the rest of the American liberal media he would have faded away in obscurity after the TET offensive.



What whitehall conveniently forgot to tell you, member of the USMB, is the fact that Cronkites disillusionment with the Vietnam clusterfuck happened only after he witnessed a single vietcong hold his position for hours under unimaginable heavy artillery and air fire before finally succumbing to his injuries.

Conkrite said after the episode: 

*OK, thats it... Lets pack our bags and get the hell out of here.*

There are hundreds of whitehalls in Russia today.

*If we did this, if we did that wed have won in Afghanistan, blah, blah, blah...*

The only thing America would get if the country decided to stay in Vietnam is 200.000 dead GIs instead of 58.000.


----------



## José (Aug 5, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Two Thumbs*
> The American liberal flopped like a frenchman even though we had not lost a single battle and they lost 10 times the people we did.



OOHHH, MY GOD!!!!

The US/Red army were not militarily defeated by the vietnamese/afghan flea!!

Now that's a huge military prowess worth bragging about!!

If the people of Vietnam and Afghanistan had anything remotely similar to the US/Soviet military behemoth the war wouldn't have lasted two months!!

And this is not a disparaging remark about the US/Russian army. Had the roles been reversed and Vietnam/Afghanistan, two military superpowers had invaded an impoverished, pathetically weak US/Russia, the american and russian soldier would also display the same extraordinary bravery and commitment to the liberation of the country.

I'm not portraying american soldiers in a bad light when I say they'd be crushed in Vietnam with a more level playing field, this is just a psychological reality of warfare.

As a rule of Two Thumbs     when soldiers fight for their homeland, instead of being the invaders, they walk that extra mile, they give everything they got.


----------



## José (Aug 5, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Sallow*
> No please..don't hold back.
> 
> Mild jabs always deserve overwhelmingly disgusting insults as a retort.



Sallow, are you sure you even read davemans post??

*Clean up when you're done.*

Since when *José is sucking Gen. Giaps cock/giving Giap a blowjob* is a mild jab??

If this remark fits your definition of a mild jab I dont want to get any boxing lessons from you : )


----------



## José (Aug 5, 2011)

Speaking of mild jabs, this is the rep comment I just got from GHook93:

*Go back to Mexico Wetback!*

tsk, tsk, tsk...

I have said numerous times and Ill say it again:

GHook is a textbook example of the fundamental importance of tough love in the upbringing of a child. 

Id give everything for the chance to travel back in time to his childhood and beg Mr. GHook Sr. to beat the crap out of little Ghook to avoid the failed adult we have now.

Now the damage is done. Hes a 30 something grown up man, married with children and no amount of physical punishment will be able to straighten him out.

Its a shame : (


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

José;3960164 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *whitehall*
> > The "legendary fighter" was defeated in every battle in VietNam. If it wasn't for Giap's support by Walter Cronkite and the rest of the American liberal media he would have faded away in obscurity after the TET offensive.
> 
> 
> ...



How does an American reporter get close enough to an enemy position to witness a single VC allegedly holding his position under artillery and air fire? It doesn't matter anyway. VC soldiers were nothing but cannon fodder and the closest Cronkite got to combat was his fat ass watching VC films probably supplied by Jane Fonda.


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

By the time the series of battles known as the Tet offensive ended in 1968 the VC lost an estimated 50,000 troops and the US lost around 9.500. It was a decisive victory for the American Military and the VC was finished. Cronkite flew to VietNam, put on a helmet and flack jacket pretending he was under fire and told America thet Tet was a "stalemate". Instead of celebrating a victory LBJ tearfully threw in the towel and told the world he had enough. At that moment the utter defeat of VC forces was turned around and Giap went from the goat (facing execution?) to the hero thanks to Walter Cronkite.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 5, 2011)

The guy was an amazing general who fought forces much more powerful. Horribly underrated by US command


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> By the time the series of battles known as the Tet offensive ended in 1968 the VC lost an estimated 50,000 troops and the US lost around 9.500. It was a decisive victory for the American Military and the VC was finished. Cronkite flew to VietNam, put on a helmet and flack jacket pretending he was under fire and told America thet Tet was a "stalemate". Instead of celebrating a victory LBJ tearfully threw in the towel and told the world he had enough. At that moment the utter defeat of VC forces was turned around and Giap went from the goat (facing execution?) to the hero thanks to Walter Cronkite.



Once again caught up in the kill statistics. That kind of proved to be useless during the war

Do you really think 9500 US casualties in one battle is acceptable as long as we kill more of them?


----------



## Trajan (Aug 5, 2011)

what interesting is a number of majors on up who had been that rank and above during the conflict and retired from high positions have written memoirs that have drawn little interest. 

Mark Moyer's Triumph Forsaken being one of the few who have extensively used those memoirs etc. to explain the early years especially. One of the biggest take aways was, and remains our  biggest mistake; allowing Diem to be over thrown and assassinated. 

Giap knew the enemy he was fighting having cut his teeth vs. the Japanese and french and did what was necessary, Ho's  apocryphal canard- "you will kill ten of ours and we will kill one of yours and it is you who will tire of it",  proved prophetic, tragically so.


----------



## Sallow (Aug 5, 2011)

José;3960167 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Sallow*
> > No please..don't hold back.
> >
> > Mild jabs always deserve overwhelmingly disgusting insults as a retort.
> ...



He didn't say that at all.


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

According to Hanoi the V.C. lost about 1,100,000 troops during the war and lost every major battle. Why the American left wants to prop up the legacy of general Giap is anyone's guess.


----------



## Sallow (Aug 5, 2011)

Trajan said:


> what interesting is a number of majors on up who had been that rank and above during the conflict and retired from high positions have written memoirs that have drawn little interest.
> 
> Mark Moyer's Triumph Forsaken being one of the few how have extensively used those memoirs etc. to explain the early years especially. One of the biggest take aways was, and remains our  biggest mistake; allowing Diem to be over thrown and assassinated.
> 
> Giap knew the enemy he was fighting having cut his teeth vs. the Japanese and french and did what was necessary, Ho's  apocryphal canard- "you will ten of ours and we will kill one of yours and it is you who will tire of it",  proved prophetic, tragically so.



Even the most cursory study of Vietnamese history would have shown that they were and are fiercely independent and have been fighting colonalization for centuries.

Really sad chapter in this country's history.


----------



## Trajan (Aug 5, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > what interesting is a number of majors on up who had been that rank and above during the conflict and retired from high positions have written memoirs that have drawn little interest.
> ...



and that cursory study would also show that they, that is both sides for 2000 years invited foreigners to help them fight each other too, then try and throw them out afterward.....


----------



## Sallow (Aug 5, 2011)

Trajan said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



That's kinda not so unusual for the region. Korea was the exact same way..up until very recently.


----------



## Trajan (Aug 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > By the time the series of battles known as the Tet offensive ended in 1968 the VC lost an estimated 50,000 troops and the US lost around 9.500. It was a decisive victory for the American Military and the VC was finished. Cronkite flew to VietNam, put on a helmet and flack jacket pretending he was under fire and told America thet Tet was a "stalemate". Instead of celebrating a victory LBJ tearfully threw in the towel and told the world he had enough. At that moment the utter defeat of VC forces was turned around and Giap went from the goat (facing execution?) to the hero thanks to Walter Cronkite.
> ...



common knowledge among our own staff at west point is, attrition is not a strategy, its a confession of  grand tactical and strategic exhaustion. Westmoreland tried it anyway....


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > By the time the series of battles known as the Tet offensive ended in 1968 the VC lost an estimated 50,000 troops and the US lost around 9.500. It was a decisive victory for the American Military and the VC was finished. Cronkite flew to VietNam, put on a helmet and flack jacket pretending he was under fire and told America thet Tet was a "stalemate". Instead of celebrating a victory LBJ tearfully threw in the towel and told the world he had enough. At that moment the utter defeat of VC forces was turned around and Giap went from the goat (facing execution?) to the hero thanks to Walter Cronkite.
> ...




 The only way you determine victory or defeat in this scenario is to count the dead. The V.C lost 50,000 troops. Even Giap admitted long after the war that he had no troops left after Tet. Even ignorant lefties should understand that Tet was a defeat and Giap was a fanatic and a failure before Cronkite came along to save his skinny ass.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



Count the dead?

Are you kidding?  Do you have any concept of the tactical and political realities of war?

You don't fight wars like you play fantasy football


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



The tactical reality of Giap's "leadership" was that he was a butcher who cared nothing about his troops. Why the left admires him as a hero is anyone's guess. The political reality was that LBJ was a fool who set the rules so that the US would win every battle and lose the war (during a republican administration). The bottom line is that Giap isn't a military hero but he might be considered a political hero to the radical left. Jose is off the charts but you would assume that saner Americans wouldn't be sending Giap birthday cards.


----------



## Trajan (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



no,  that won't work, the nor kors and the Chinese lost a huge number of men comparatively, in the Korean  War, yet? we have a cease fire in effect for what? 50 years?


----------



## Sallow (Aug 5, 2011)

Trajan said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



What about the Russians during WWII. Heck they lost millions. The Russian Front was a death sentence for Germans and Russians alike..


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...






There are two factors necessary to declare military victory. Storming a fortified fortress is the worst case scenrio in combat but Ike was prepared to throw enough bodies into the Normandy meat grinder until the Allies established... real estate. That's the second element to calculating military victory...taking and keeping real estate. Germany took Russian real estate but couldn't wthistand the other element needed for military victory ...low casualites. LBJ decided to fight a war in VietNam where real estate wouldn't matter. Every hard fought acre the US gained was given away the next day or a week later. It's impossible to declare victory unless you occupy the real estate of the defeated force. LBJ almost pulled it off after Tet when the VC was so worn down that it had no more troops but he chickened out and gave it all away.


----------



## José (Aug 5, 2011)

> Originally posted by *whitehall*
> The political reality was that LBJ was a fool who set the rules so that the US would win every battle and lose the war (during a republican administration).



As I said there are still hundreds of "whitehalls" in Russia today, orphans of the Cold War, coming up with dozens of excuses and pseudo-explanations to justify the Soviet debacle in Afghanistan. *But they don't have that excuse in particular*.

There was no political interference in military matters, no micromanagement of the war on the part of the Soviet bureaucracy. There was no "North Afghanistan" the Soviet military was prevented from carpet bombing... The entire country from North to South, East to West was declared a free strike zone and it didn't make any difference in the end.

Even if Hanoi were invaded and militarily occupied the north vietnamese would simply retreat into the jungle and start a guerrilla resistance movement, vietcong style (that's exactly what they did to fight the japanese occupation of Hanoi in the 40's).

But nevermind... Whitehall is a fanatic right-winger who simply can't bring himself to admit the fact that America didn't fight the communist ideology in Vietnam but a genuine, grassroots anti-colonialist, independence movement.


----------



## Trajan (Aug 5, 2011)

José;3961630 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *whitehall*
> > The political reality was that LBJ was a fool who set the rules so that the US would win every battle and lose the war (during a republican administration).
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## daveman (Aug 5, 2011)

José;3959065 said:
			
		

> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Clean up when you're done.
> ...


The Sixties called.  They want their stupid back.  

I told them that you're bitterly clinging to it.  They understood.


----------



## daveman (Aug 5, 2011)

José;3960167 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Sallow*
> > No please..don't hold back.
> >
> > Mild jabs always deserve overwhelmingly disgusting insults as a retort.
> ...


That wasn't my meaning.  I leave using homosexuality as an insult to leftists.

I meant you were jacking off to a dead Commie.

And you are.


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

Trajan said:


> José;3961630 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## daveman (Aug 5, 2011)

José;3961630 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *whitehall*
> > The political reality was that LBJ was a fool who set the rules so that the US would win every battle and lose the war (during a republican administration).
> 
> 
> ...









Lenin is dead.  His useful idiots are not.


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

Come on lefties. You know Jose is an off the charts left wing anti-American radical. Why do you support the notion that Giap was a hero? Is it a knee jerk reaction to the crap you have been taught in public school? Maybe Michael Savage was right. Liberalism is a mental illness.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> Come on lefties. You know Jose is an off the charts left wing anti-American radical. Why do you support the notion that Giap was a hero? Is it a knee jerk reaction to the crap you have been taught in public school? Maybe Michael Savage was right. Liberalism is a mental illness.



Guess what?

Giaps side won. He led an army against overwhelming odds and won. Today, his country is independent and he is their George Washington. It's not anti American, it's the way things are


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > Come on lefties. You know Jose is an off the charts left wing anti-American radical. Why do you support the notion that Giap was a hero? Is it a knee jerk reaction to the crap you have been taught in public school? Maybe Michael Savage was right. Liberalism is a mental illness.
> ...



There it is folks, directly from rightwinger who is really a leftwinger. Giap's side won and therefore regardless of his ability as a general and his savage atrosities towards South Vietnamese civilians he should be considered to be on the same scale as George Washington.  I rest my case about Michael Savage's opinion of liberalism.


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



The tactical reality was that North Vietnam was willing to fight to the last man and we weren't. Why?  Because it was their country. Just like the Russians lost millions more casualties than the Germans, they won because they were fighting for mother Russia. 

So .....35 years later

What would have been the difference if we had won?  Vietnam is now a US trade partner. US tourists visit frequently. Would it have been worth another 50,000 US lives to "win" Vietnam?


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



We don't know if North VietNam was  willing to fight to the last man. General Giap's lack of leadership resulted in a million, one hundred thousand deaths under his command. It hardly qualifies him as the top ten of military leaders in history except in the minds of radical lefties who (I hate to say it) celebrated every US Military death in a war they considered illegal.


----------



## daveman (Aug 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > Come on lefties. You know Jose is an off the charts left wing anti-American radical. Why do you support the notion that Giap was a hero? Is it a knee jerk reaction to the crap you have been taught in public school? Maybe Michael Savage was right. Liberalism is a mental illness.
> ...


He won by default.  And Saigon didn't fall until two years after we left.

You call that a victory?


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



Historically, Americans have always been able to respect the Generals we faced in war. In spite of their representing sides whose political views we abhor, we still admire their leadership skills. Generals like Lee, Jackson, Rommel and Admiral Yamamoto are admired..even though they were on the other side


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



David fought Goliath and won.


----------



## whitehall (Aug 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




Actually we killed Yamamoto in a daring raid and Rommel was executed by his own people. Their tactics and leadership were admirable but what's to admire about a sniveling coward who got a Million one hundred thousand of his own people killed as cannon fodder?


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

Giap was a bloodthirsty communist who had no qualms at all at sending millions of his countrymen to their deaths in a war to establish a dictatorship, one which has left vietnam among the poorest countries on earth.  But being bloodthirsty doesn't mean stupid.

My favorite quote from him is how he honestly admitted that the american leftwing won the war far for the communists - after main US troop bodies were gone in 1973, and the democrat congress refused to give any more money to south vietnam (continuing the now very familiar leftwing practice of abandoning our allies) he said the south vietnamese were forced to fight "a poor man's war".  Eg, in the face of massive divisions of NVA surging southward, artllery firebases were told to shoot only two rounds a day.


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



In yamamoto's defense, he argued against the war against the US before the attack on Pearl Harbor, saying even militarily, it made no sense, implying that the US would inevitably win it.


----------



## Sallow (Aug 6, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



You just went on about over a million vietnamese military killed and talk about Vietnamese Atrocities? Oh gosh.

It was the US that was completely responsible for the deaths of several million Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian people.

And that's an atrocity.


----------



## Sallow (Aug 6, 2011)

whitehall said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



Sheesh..I hope you aren't teaching any class in history.

Nixon expanded the war by at least 2 degrees. He secretly bombed Laos and Cambodia.


----------



## Trajan (Aug 6, 2011)

Sallow said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



how was that again?


----------



## rightwinger (Aug 6, 2011)

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > whitehall said:
> ...



How was he responsible for one million deaths?  Because he wouldn't surrender to the US?

He had a rudimentary military with poorly equipped forces. He faced the most powerful military on earth and fought them to a standstill. Tactics and perseverance countered the military might of the US
How do you hold off a force with airpower, communications and  unlimited resources for seven years?


----------



## Toome (Aug 7, 2011)

Sounds like this whole argument is pretty pointless.

As a leader, Giap probably rates right up there with other national heroes in terms of motivating followers and getting them to charge the hill.  As a military tactician, he basically sucked.  To give him credit for "winning" the Vietnam War is pretty disingenuous.

To put it in plain terms:  the NVA never posed a serious military threat to the US military.  It got its ass handed to them in every major battlefield engagement.  The Tet Offensive was a huge military failure.

In political terms, Giap was pretty clever.  He understood the strategy of perception over reality.  This still didn't make him a brilliant military tactician.  He understood that Washington did not have the will to deliver the killing blow, so he just waited us out no matter how many of his own people were killed in the process.

I don't hate the man.  The war is over, and he was just some schmoe who did his job on his side of the fence while we did ours on our side of it.


----------



## Patrick2 (Aug 7, 2011)

Toome said:


> Sounds like this whole argument is pretty pointless.
> 
> As a leader, Giap probably rates right up there with other national heroes in terms of motivating followers and getting them to charge the hill.



Is motivation other than "do what we tell you, or go to prison or worse" needed in a communist country?


----------



## Mr.Owl (Aug 7, 2011)

not lookin to bad for 100!


----------



## L.K.Eder (Aug 7, 2011)

Toome said:


> Sounds like this whole argument is pretty pointless.
> 
> As a leader, Giap probably rates right up there with other national heroes in terms of motivating followers and getting them to charge the hill.  As a military tactician, he basically sucked.  To give him credit for "winning" the Vietnam War is pretty disingenuous.
> 
> ...



how about the battle of dien bien phu?


----------



## daveman (Aug 7, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> Toome said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like this whole argument is pretty pointless.
> ...









"Leave the brave Communist alone!!"


----------



## Toome (Aug 7, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> how about the battle of dien bien phu?



I don't want to take anything away from the Viet-Minh.  It takes a lot of smarts to recognize a weakness and exploit it fully.

However, the French had as much to do with some pretty stupid decision-making on their part.  

I'm not the one who is trying to portray Giap as a military genius.  He wasn't one.  He wasn't an incompetent military officer.  But he sure as hell didn't defeat the US on the battlefield.

Point here is that Vietnam was lost back home in the form of public opinion.  Giap didn't orchestrate that.  Give Ho Chi Minh the credit for knowing how Americans think and coming up with the strategy to target the American public rather than the American military.

I don't want to undersell Giap.  He certainly had to have a head on his shoulders.  But to give him credit for defeating the US military?  Yeah, right.  Uh, no.  He did nothing of the sort.


----------



## The Gadfly (Aug 7, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


You are joking, right? You people on the Left amaze me. "Unlimited resources"? Oh, how I wish, but the truth is, all the really important targets were off-limits to air strikes, the VC and NVA could just run across some artificial line and regroup and replenish after we decimated them in battle, and we were not allowed to follow up; shall I continue? The long list of stupid, political restrictions we had to deal with is absolutely ridiculous, surreal, and a whole lot of other things that defy both sound military tactics and common sense. Giap may have been a mediocre commander, but what he was up against in McNamara and his "whiz kids" was an idiot brigade that handcuffed U.S. troops at every turn, while being worth at lest five divisions to the enemy on criminal stupidity and sheer gutlessness alone. I'd  have loved to have some of those "geniuses" in the field; I think I would have put them on point, with a cowbell around their necks; they might have been good for something, that way. Robert S. McNamara owes every man who fought in Vietnam an apology, for not allowing us to do our job.

As for "another 50,000 dead", it wouldn't have cost us the first 58, 272 to do the job right, and bomb every target of military significance in North Vietnam into dust, and roll our armor across the border and crush Ho Chi Minh, and it would not have take so long to do that, either. All we needed was the orders; orders we never got, because of chickenshits back home. Fight the Chinese? I'd have loved to kill some of the communist bastards. Same for the Russians. Hell, given the way things turned out, I'd just as soon have laid waste to the whole damn country so that nothing could live in that shithole for the next 500 years. We might as well have done the same things the enemy did, since you Leftists constantly accuse us of doing that anyway. I really don't give a damn how many communists we killed; not enough, obviously.

By the way, Giap can STILL kiss my G.I. ass, and I wish him a painful and lingering death.


----------

