# Unschooling



## manifold (Apr 20, 2010)

Have you heard about this crap?

A so called form of "homeschooling" where you don't teach the kids fuck all.

Brilliant! 

Unschooling: Homeschooling Without Books, Tests or Classes - ABC News


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


> Have you heard about this crap?
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> A so called form of "homeschooling" where you don't teach the kids fuck all.
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> Though the children's father acknowledged they were growing up in a unique way, he said that "in all other aspects, they're  living in the mainstream."
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> "They have experiences and knowledge that other people don't," Yablonski said.




I wish he had listed a few "experiences and knowledge that other people don't" have.

The real tragedy here is that there are MANY kids being responsibly homeschooled, but NEA will use this idiot as an example of why parents cannot be trusted.


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## AllieBaba (Apr 20, 2010)

Is it sort of like turning children out with wild animals? Like in Jungle Book? They could learn to speak wolf, tiger and bear that way, you know....

Sorry, I haven't read the link.


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## AllieBaba (Apr 20, 2010)




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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> Is it sort of like turning children out with wild animals? Like in Jungle Book? They could learn to speak wolf, tiger and bear that way, you know....
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> Sorry, I haven't read the link.



Actually they spend all day posting on USMB


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

Their kid, their choice.

it ain't none of your fucking buisness.


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


> Their kid, their choice.
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> it ain't none of your fucking buisness.



It will be after they land on the public dole.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

Samson said:


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Quite an assumption.

many people with nontraditional education are the most creative and productive.


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## uscitizen (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


> Have you heard about this crap?
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A movement to raise more republicans?


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

uscitizen said:


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Or a movement to teach kids how to think not what to think?


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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Really?



I suppose we oughta close down Universities, except for their Athletic Programs.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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You mean those bastions of intolerance to differing opinions.  Where diversity is OK as long as you don't disagree with anyone?

And again it is quite a leap to assume I implied that all universities should be closed down.  You're usually better than that.

But I will say all the athletic shit should be done away with.  Do you attend university tio learn or to play games?


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## kwc57 (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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You know, that is just pure bullshit.  When I attended college, the one thing that my professors ALWAYS pushed on us was critical thinking skills and learning how to anaylize information and come to our OWN conclusions.  Were many of them biased in their views?  Of course they were, they were human.  But they had come to their conclusions thru their own personal critical thinking and saw a large part of their job as teaching their students to do the same thing with whatever subkect they taught.


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## uscitizen (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot has no degree?  But he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

fyi I have no college degree.  I have however set up college trust funds for all of the grandchildren.


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## California Girl (Apr 20, 2010)

uscitizen said:


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Has rdean hacked your account? Cuz that is the kind of stupidity that he is renowned for.


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## uscitizen (Apr 20, 2010)

California Girl said:


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How do you know I am not rdean?


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

Poor kids don't stand a chance without education.  Some people are just horrible and stupid parents


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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YOu need to know some facts before you can think up anything.


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

kwc57 said:


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Yup, Skull sounds like just another whiny conservatives that gets mad when facts get in the way of ideology.


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## goldcatt (Apr 20, 2010)

I have no problem with homeschooling if the parents are qualified and conscientous. As long as the child is learning what he or she needs to learn, does it matter where it happens?

I do have a problem with teaching them basically nothing and calling it education. Letting them roam free and figure stuff out on their own is for playtime, not education.


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## uscitizen (Apr 20, 2010)

Thinking without knowledge is ignorance.
Wisdom is based on both the ability to think and knowledge learned.


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## manifold (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


> Their kid, their choice.
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> it ain't none of your fucking buisness.



Sure, but it'll be my business in 10 years when they're fuck'n up my order at the McDonalds drive-thru.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Skull Pilot has no degree?  But he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
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> fyi I have no college degree.  I have however set up college trust funds for all of the grandchildren.



I have 2.

But then again when did I ever say that universities ahould be abolished?

I made a simple statement that many people who are the products of nontraditional education are very creative.  And those of you who can only think in the box take it as me saying to burn down the universities.

Curious.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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Facts are easily obtained.  Last time I checked there were still free libraries in almost every town.

If you think our schools exist to impart facts to students, you are sadly mistaken.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


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Once again I will say I am a true liberal.

What a person teaches or does not teach their children is none of my business.  Just as it is none of yours.

And the next time a conservative gets shouted down on campus but a terrorist is welcome we'll revisit the tolerance of universities.


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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My comment was figurative: If MANY people who are the products of nontraditional education are VERY creative, then perhaps traditional educations (university) should simply be closed.

"Creative" is a pretty broad term. I could call a dog that takes the perfect spiral-shit (you know, with a nice peak that stands straight up), "Creative."

Where are all these many very creative people who are the products of nontraditional education? Pole dancing?


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## manifold (Apr 20, 2010)

Samson said:


> Where are all these many very creative people who are the products of nontraditional education? Pole dancing?



Do you want fries with that?


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


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I like the very creative turn of phrase: Sure, Supersize me.


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## manu1959 (Apr 20, 2010)

so after 13 years of public education and 4 years of univeristy....

you got your first job in the real world....

how much of what you had learned was actually useful....


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## goldcatt (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


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Depends what you consider nontraditional education. I'll agree there are parents who do a great job homeschooling their kids. There are others who, obviously with stuff out there like the OP, completely suck at it. I'd also speculate the higher the grade level and more in-depth the material, the fewer parents will be able to do it all on their own.

And yeah, when you turn out kids who turn into adults with a piss-poor noneducation, it does become my business when I have to support them and their kids because their part time minimum wage job doesn't pay the bills.


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

goldcatt said:


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What do you mean "part time minimum wage job doesn't pay the bills?"






Just raise the minimum wage.


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## kwc57 (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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Universities are like anything else.....there are a lot of them and you shouldn't use a broad brush in describing them.  Mine taught and expected critical thinking.  THAT more than any subject being taught was the REAL lesson.


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## kwc57 (Apr 20, 2010)

Samson said:


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No need, just send everyone a gubmint check along with their monthly cheese allotment.


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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Sorry, you are the one mistaken. What is the purpose then?  let me guess,its to brainwash them with liberal ideology


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

manu1959 said:


> so after 13 years of public education and 4 years of univeristy....
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> you got your first job in the real world....
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> how much of what you had learned was actually useful....



Is your job in the field you got your degree in? Than it is very useful


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

kwc57 said:


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Speaking of cheese, I see Dr. Demento has arrived upon the scene: Time to get something done IRL.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

manu1959 said:


> so after 13 years of public education and 4 years of univeristy....
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> you got your first job in the real world....
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> how much of what you had learned was actually useful....



not very fucking much.

In fact the most important things with the greatest impact on my life on a day to day basis were things i didn't learn in school.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


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Usually a prof will preach his particular bent on the world and then expect his students to regurgitate on command.

I've sat through enough under grad and grad courses to know this.  Funny you haven't realized it.


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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Speak for yourself, in the sciences and engineering, its very important.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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One of my degrees is in electrical engineering.

I could have learned all that on my own by doing nothing more than reading the same text books in the library for free.  No university necessary.


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## xsited1 (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


> Have you heard about this crap?
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I predict they'll become successful politicians.


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## goldcatt (Apr 20, 2010)

kwc57 said:


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I was lucky enough to go to all smallish public universities where teaching was the professors' first priority, not research. Sometimes I think the amount of time they have to spend on the teaching part makes a difference in quality and expectations. But that might be for a different thread.


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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Yeah, sure you did. They teach out of textbooks, most of them. Maybe you just went to a shitty school, mine never did such thing. or maybe you just didn't want to believe what you heard so claimed it was spun or a the truth was bent, based on your posts, I bet that's it


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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OK, putting it that way, that's true. MOst of my learning came out of books. Many of the intro science classes I never went to class, just studied the book. But some people need a teacher and guidanance


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## judyd (Apr 20, 2010)

One thing they are not being taught is self-discipline.  Without that they will probably have difficulties in trying to achieve anything.  They are given too many choices and so far have picked the easy options.  

What will the parents do when they're older and ready to retire and move on, but their kids still haven't found their niche, and have no training or ambition to find a job--or if they find a job, to keep at it.  Work can be tedious and boring--something these kids can't deal with.

I also found it ridiculous to give the kids a choice of what they wanted for breakfast[--and then have doughnuts there!  Jeez, my son's nutritional needs were important to me when he was growing up, and if I gave him choices, sugar products wouldn't have been one of them.


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## JenyEliza (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


> Have you heard about this crap?
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I heard about it, and I think the parents are just LAZY parents.  LAZY.

No rules.

No school.

No chores.

Nothing but a life of fun and sleeping and eating and doing whatever the hell the kid wants.

REAL good view on what life is like in the adult world.  

This is only going to ensure these kids join the 3/2 (three out of 2) Americans who have trouble with fractions, as well as balancing a checkbook--or working for that matter.

Dayam!  Some people just should NOT reproduce.

I mean, I defend a parents right to decide their child's education--as long as the child is being EDUCATED.  I have no problem with homeschooling or private school, those are good alternative to government schools.

These parents arent schooling AT ALL.

Damn dumbasses.


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


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Quite an assumption.

You have facts to back that up?


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

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Or NOT to think at all.


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## judyd (Apr 20, 2010)

JenyEliza said:


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They'll pay for it when the kids are grown and still completely dependent on their parents for their tangible needs.  They seem to lack foresight.


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

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It's called "University" because it's "universal".  And that means giving athletes someplace to learn their skills as well as scientists and authors and actors and......

And people call me an "elitist"?  Funny.


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

rdean said:


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There have been many of the best scientists that didn't finish schooling.  I don't know about this day and age, as its crucial to have a degree to prove you actually know what you claim to know. But I'm sure there are some. Thing is, those people tend to be geniuses, not average people, so think its a bit disingenuous to make that claim about universities


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

California Girl said:


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Those people just don't want to teach their OWN children.  Republicans want to stop teaching ALL children, unless it's teaching them "mysticism".  Then that's different.


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## JenyEliza (Apr 20, 2010)

judyd said:


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Yep.  Kids will be 40 and still sleeping in at good ole Mom and Dad's until noon every day.


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

manu1959 said:


> so after 13 years of public education and 4 years of univeristy....
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> you got your first job in the real world....
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> how much of what you had learned was actually useful....



As and engineer, ALL of it.  Especially the college stuff.


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

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Some conservatives are terrorists.  They lie.  They frighten the American people.  They intimidate with guns.


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

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You could have learned electrical engineering without going to school?  

analog and digital signal processing
including amplification, filtering, modulation and demodulation 
the Doppler effect and the Peltier-Seebeck effect and what it is they measure
quantum mechanics and solid state physics 
VLSI 
macroscopic electrical systems.

And I'm not even an electrical engineer.

And you could teach yourself?

Don't believe it for a second.  Not a second.  This is something a conservative would write to show how smart they are.


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## del (Apr 20, 2010)

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nobody calls you anything but a hack, hack.

rest easy.


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## Nosmo King (Apr 20, 2010)

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Let them be engineers and accountants.  We'll send them over to design your house foundation and do your taxes.


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## Nosmo King (Apr 20, 2010)

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Spoken with all the confidence of the under-educated.


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## del (Apr 20, 2010)

Nosmo King said:


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spoken with the true elan of the allegedly educated.

kudos


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## rdean (Apr 20, 2010)

del said:


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Wow, you have more positions than the Kama Sutra.


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## del (Apr 20, 2010)

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yes, i'm quite limber.


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## uscitizen (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


> Have you heard about this crap?
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One way to combat future illegal immigrants.  Raise a work force to compete with them in the mobile workforce of the 21st century.  ie migrant workers.


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

del said:


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## Samson (Apr 20, 2010)

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Actually, they're paying local taxes for it now.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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For example the nontraditional Waldorf educational methods.

Creative Thinking Development of Waldorf School Students


> Waldorf Education, founded by Rudolf Steiner in 1919, is based on the philosophy of critical idealism, in which teachers assist in the natural unfolding of children's preexistent possibilities. But because there has been little research on Waldorf Education, few data have been gathered on the effectiveness of its teaching methods and organizational structure, or on students achievement. *An international study was conducted to determine if there was a significant difference between the creative thinking ability of Waldorf students and state school students in England, Scotland, and Germany*. The hypothesis was that disparate educational practices in Waldorf and state schools were influenced by disparate educational philosophies. The sample consisted of 1,165 third through sixth grade children--479 English, 193 Scottish, and 493 German students. *The findings obtained from administration of the Torrance Test of Creative Thinking Ability, suggested that Waldorf students were more creative than their state school peers.* Particular credit for this was given to the maturational-readiness and nurturing curriculum of the Waldorf Schools, which includes: having the same teacher follow students from grades 1 to 8; de-emphasis on academic performance in early grades; use of art in instruction; and other teaching and curriculum considerations.



I know it's hard for you to believe that government run schools are not really that great at teaching kids to do anything.  But then government schools never taught you to really think did they?

Maybe if you were the product of a more unique and eclectic educational experience you would be a more creative thinker


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## bodecea (Apr 20, 2010)

manifold said:


> Have you heard about this crap?
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This might have been my neighbors...the rentals who were finally evicted about 2 years ago.   The kids were running wild.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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Nice try but you failed again.

 universities do not offer degrees in football do they?  People do not go to university to "learn" sports.


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## bodecea (Apr 20, 2010)

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Some people seem to have a problem with that.


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## bodecea (Apr 20, 2010)

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I'm sure your employers would agree.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

rdean said:


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Just because you cannot read and comprehend what is in a text book does not mean others are similarly handicapped.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

Nosmo King said:


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There will always be a need for people to perform rote skills.  Accountants are not known for their creativity.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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Two bachelors' and a masters' degree have I.

BTW my combined GPA for all my college course classes is 3.8.  

And you know what, it was easy.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

bodecea said:


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I work for myself and I do agree.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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Truth.

Hah.

Have you ever taken philosophy?  the prof basically tells you what he thinks a philosopher said and you have to puke it back up on an exam.

You can learn the truth on your own.  the misconception is that people believe that formal education somehow has a monopoly on the truth.

It's sad really.


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## Dr Gregg (Apr 20, 2010)

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Ugh, philosophy is so friggen pointless, I took it for the easy required class, and did well since all you needed to know was how to bullshit. as a scientist, couldn't stand philosophy cause you can think up whatever you want and argue it but without proving any of it, its meaningless.  And in my classes the professors often let students interpret what the philosophers were saying and contribute in class, it wasn't just listen to me, this is the way it is.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 20, 2010)

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Taking a class in philosophy is pointless.

reading the works of great thinkers without having to take the preconceived answers you need to placate a prof into account is quite another experience altogether.


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## Oscar Wao (Apr 20, 2010)

Hmm, I'm pro-homeschooling (have the T-shirt myself), but I'm a little leery of this "unschooling movement."  Some of it is attractive, but a lot of it is well...very suspicious.


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## manifold (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm not sure why many of you have turned this into a philosophical debate about "higher" education, which I agree with Skull is highly overrated.

The point here is that these kids aren't even learning the basics.

All the textbooks in the local library don't mean shit if the kid can't fucking read in the first place.  And if he can't add, subtract, multiply and divide, he's gonna have a helluva time teaching himself calculus.


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## Samson (Apr 21, 2010)

manifold said:


> I'm not sure why many of you have turned this into a philosophical debate about "higher" education, which I agree with Skull is highly overrated.
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> All the textbooks in the local library don't mean shit if the kid can't fucking read in the first place.  And if he can't add, subtract, multiply and divide, he's gonna have a helluva time teaching himself calculus.



Who needs the basics? Why do pole dancers need to read?

Skull has discovered that MANY without traditional educations are VERY creative.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 21, 2010)

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It's the truth though isn't it?

BTW I didn't learn to read in school did you?

I was reading before I went to school.  i knew the alphabet and how to count before i attended grammar school didn't you?

Do you have kids and if so did they only learn things after they were enrolled in a government school?


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## manifold (Apr 21, 2010)

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Yes, I learned to read before I went to school too.  And why???  Because my parents taught me.  Had they done this new aged unschooling crap, that probably would not have been the case.


btw:  You're the only one trying to make this about "government" schools.  I have no problem with homeschooling.  But I think you do your child a grave injustice by not teaching them anything and not allowing anyone else to either.


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## goldcatt (Apr 21, 2010)

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That's the whole point here, Skull. These parents who believe in "unschooling" _aren't _teaching their kids the basics. They aren't teaching them much of anything at all except to do whatever the hell they please and there are no consequences. This isn't a defense of the traditional public school over all other forms of education, but rather that there has to be some kind of real education going on - not just turning 'em loose.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 21, 2010)

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And back full circle.

Their kids and what they teach or do not teach them are none of your fucking business.

BTW where did I say I ever agreed with this particular method?

I just refuse to judge others for what they do in their private lives.


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## manifold (Apr 21, 2010)

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You're such a tightass bull shit artist. 

Like you've never had an opinion about something this isn't technically "your business." 

And btw:  I never said these people shouldn't be allowed to inflict this particular type of abuse on their children, but I'm still entitled to my opinion that it is wrong.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 21, 2010)

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Opinions are like assholes.

I don't see why anyone would even give a flying fuck about what someone they do not know teaches or does not teach their kids.

I am not labeling as right or wrong.  I merely make the statement that many children who are the products of nontraditional teaching methods and schools do just fine and that somehow makes me anti education.  You have no idea what these kids will learn or not do you?  I sure as hell don't and it's none of my business.

If I had a vested personal interest I might consider it justified to place a value judgment on the parents but I don't so i won't


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## manifold (Apr 21, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


> manifold said:
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I repeat...


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 21, 2010)

manifold said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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I've posted enough here and if you can find me making the kind of judgments on right or wrong that you do when it comes to the private life of another please feel free to find where i have done so.

Then maybe you could laugh.


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## manifold (Apr 21, 2010)

I can laugh at your bullshit all I want Skull and you shouldn't have any opinion about it.  Afterall, it's none of your fucking business what I find funny.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 21, 2010)

manifold said:


> I can laugh at your bullshit all I want Skull and you shouldn't have any opinion about it.  Afterall, it's none of your fucking business what I find funny.



If it is me it is my business.  But go ahead an laugh because I know you can't find even one instance of me passing judgment on the personal choices of another.


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## JenyEliza (Apr 21, 2010)

goldcatt said:


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Sing it sister!  

"Unschooling" is basically the same thing our public schools are doing, just on a different level, in a different location, under different "rules".  Ie, there are NO rules in unschooling, vs. arbitary and inflexible rules in the public schools.

My daughter is suspended today.  Why?  She didn't go to Saturday School because, which she got for having 7 tardies to her classes.  

Out of school suspension for 7 tardies!    OMG....they weren't even this rigid and inflexible when I went to HS almost 30 years ago.

We have no car at the moment.  School is 25 miles away, and aside from walking how the hell was I going to get her there at 8 am on Saturday (no I am NOT going to pay $100 for a cab ride, nor was I going to walk with her the 25 miles).  No bus runs to the school on Saturday.

Did the Asst. Principal want to work with me and give her IN SCHOOL suspension?  Hell NO.  Did he even want to discuss an alternate arrangement?  HELL NO.  He said it was inexusable and she would just have to do her time, and he hung up on me.

Even the Master Sgt. in NJROTC was verklempt by this--he was prepared to give her extra PT for the month of May as alternate punishment.  He assured me (and my daughter) that she wouldn't be suspended and that he would work it out with the Asst. Principal in light of our circumstances.

HELL NO...rigid, inflexible...and she's got her butt plopped on the couch watching TV right now.  

Yeah.  Public school has a LOT in common with the lazy parents who don't teach anything and have no rules at all.  They're NUTZ and they DON'T want to EDUCATE.

Because they're LAZY.


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## Oscar Wao (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes, I mean, from what I hear, where's the math lessons?

Even if you aren't a super genius who goes all the way to grad-school level calculus, you need at least the BASIC levels of math.  I mean, how are you going to prepare the family budget?  Know how much money to spend on vacation and how much to put away for another time?


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## manifold (Apr 21, 2010)

Skull Pilot said:


> manifold said:
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> > I can laugh at your bullshit all I want Skull and you shouldn't have any opinion about it.  Afterall, it's none of your fucking business what I find funny.
> ...



Glad to know you're not passing judgment on me for my personal choice to laugh at your pompous bullshit and complete absence of a sense of humor.


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## kwc57 (Apr 21, 2010)

JenyEliza said:


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At the risk of pissing you off and getting neg repped, I don't see the similarities between the lazy parents unschooling their kids and your daughter's public school.  Sounds like her school has standards that she is choosing to ignore and now she is suffering the standard consequences.  I'd be kicking my son's butt harder than the school is if he had seven tardies and receiving discipline from the school for it.  Like my dad told me when I was in school.  You get swats at school, I'll wear you out when you get home.  I never got swats.


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## JenyEliza (Apr 21, 2010)

kwc57 said:


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You know what?  I'm normally like you.  But...you should understand, she is one of a school of THREE THOUSAND high school kids.  That's not *late to school* 7 times, that's late to individual classes *7* times over the entire school year.

They have 5 minutes between classes to get there AND...they gotta cover a campus the size of a small university to get there.  There is NO WAY to get to class on time with that many kids and that large of a campus.  On Parents Night, we were given our kids schedule to follow--complete with the allotted 5 minutes between class and *I* couldn't do it. I was late to every class.

I'm not going to punish her because 1) *I* totaled our car (she would have gone to Saturday School had I not killed the car) and 2) because *I* couldn't get to her classes on time to save my life, how do they expect her to?  

Ridiculous to give her OUT OF SCHOOL SUSPENSION when there were so many other, better and more creative alternatives available to the lazy AP, who doesn't know how to use his own head and think out of the box.

THAT is what is wrong with our public schools these days.  

Ridiculous.


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## HUGGY (Apr 21, 2010)

JenyEliza said:


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JEEEEEZZZUUUSSSSS H. CHRIST on a pogo stick Jeny!!!!    What kinda demon seeds you raising anyway?????


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## Samson (Apr 21, 2010)

HUGGY said:


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yeah, I'm really shocked.


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## Oscar Wao (Apr 21, 2010)

JenyEliza said:


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If I were late to class on purpose to screw up in school, I'd get it from my Dad, sure.  But if I were in your daughter's situation, he'd probably be giving those in the school swats on their hides!


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## JenyEliza (Apr 21, 2010)

HUGGY said:


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Good kids, actually!  

It's just that there are 2,998 others on the same campus with them that won't get the hell out of their way between glasses.

1/2 of these kids want to hold hands, swap spit and carry on like Susan Lucci and Walt Willey and have inappropriate PDAs with the other 1/2 of the kids at school.  Like they don't see enough of each other or something.  )

Who here remembers the crowded halls of their high school as a Freshman?  Any hands?  Anyone?  I know I do.

Ok.

Now, how many of you felt like a little minnow lost in a sea of great big fish?

I know I did.

How many of you EVER got stuck behind a traffic jam in the hallway you couldn't push, pull or batter you way through and it was THE only route to your next class?  Once you pushed past the bottleneck, you discovered it was the "IT" couple putting on a show, playing tonsil hockey in the hallway before they got caught and split up by some Administrator?

Bonus question:  Do you remember the name of your "IT" couple?  

Now, how many of you went to high school with THREE THOUSAND (yes, that's 3,000) kids?  

I didn't.  My entire school population was 1,200.  Period. My graduating class was 400.  My twins graduation class is 950.  Yes, 950....and since their school is only 2 years old, this is the first year they have a SENIOR class of only 100 kids.  

Next year's freshman class is ..... 1,110 kids.  Yessireee.........that's how many are projected to be moving up in the fall.  

So......we very well stand to have a school of almost FOUR THOUSAND or so kids.  It's only going to get worse and the Administration is going to have to make allowances for this, or there are gonna be a LOT more Saturday School assignments and a LOT more missed Saturday School assignments.

It's not like my daughter skipped SS on purpose, to be defiant.  I totaled our car three weeks ago and we don't have a replacement yet.  We have NO transportation.  She told me about it and *I* told her I had no way to get her there and I would take care of it with the AP.  I thought (bad move on my part) that he would be open to working out a different, more suitable, more easily achieveable punishment than Saturday School OR ISS.  My mistake.  

The man is a BOT.  Unable to think for himself.  Unable to think of creative punishments that get the message across firmly, yet fairly.  

I had NO objection to her being punished for her tardys.  I just had an objection to the way it was handled and the fact that being on OSS for this is now on her permanent record and could harm her chances at college opportunities and/or with the Navy (she aspires to a career as a Lady Squid).  

She will have to explain this suspension away, and it's really really stupid.  She didn't bring a gun or drugs to school.  She didn't hit anyone.  She didn't do anything bad--except have trouble negotiating a large campus, with some 2,500 or so much larger people who got in her way and delayed her arrival to class on 7 occasions this ENTIRE school year. 

Not (in my estimation) a really horrible record for a FRESHMAN girl......oh, and for the record.  She's on the VARSITY WRESTLING TEAM.  She wrestles 103lbs--with the boys--and she could take out the AP who suspended her without breaking a sweat.  He's a teeny tiny pipsqueak of an asshole on a power trip. 

Fuck him, I say.  Next time I'll let her put him in a Sleeper or a Full Nelson and be done with the problem.  At least *then* she'd have earned her OSS.

/THE END.


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## HUGGY (Apr 21, 2010)

JenyEliza said:


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Yup!...  Says it right here in the camping and hiking manual..."Do Not Come Between A Momma Bear And Her Cubs!!!!"


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## JenyEliza (Apr 21, 2010)

Oscar Wao said:


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Thanks!  Yes, she didn't do this to be defiant.  She just had trouble getting to her class(es) on 7 different occasions this whole school year. 

I mean, you remember your high school hallways?  Would you want to be tasked with pushing your way through the crowds every 90 minutes, with only 5 minutes to cover 3 acres and two buildings, upstairs and downstairs (no elevators--handicapped only are allowed to use them).  

Geez.  They need to give the kids 10 minutes between classes and the tardys would decrease (not go away, but they would go down, and the kids tardy would really be jerking off instead of getting to class--punish THEM).

School ends May 21.  I know they're playing clean up with suspensions, detentions and Saturday school, but get a grip and use your head.  Skipping Saturday school is NOT the same as bringing a gun to school or using drugs on campus, which SHOULD get you out of school suspension.  Not going to Saturday School?  Hello?  What's wrong with In School Suspension?  I really don't see why that wasn't acceptable.  

/end rant


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## JenyEliza (Apr 21, 2010)

HUGGY said:


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AMEN...that's the most dangerous place in the world!  And he was CRAZY to put himself in that place.


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## rdean (Apr 21, 2010)

So all these kids will be coming around my desk tomorrow for "Parents - bring your kids to work day".  I'm putting up a "chart".  It will have the following list:

Art
Math
English
Creative writing
Geography
Science

We used computer models and studies in lighting and materials to design and make brochure quality art.

We use math all the time in engineering.  From Pricing to, obviously, design.

We use creative writing and English for reports and studies.

60% of the business is overseas.  It's great to know where people came from and who we are doing business with.

Science - for obvious reasons.

I will check them off one at a time.  For those children whose parents hamstring them by saying, "You will never use what you learned in school", bullshit.  The more complex your job is, the more you use.

When I talked about this before, those on the right called me "elitist" among the more "polite" names.  Now is the time to get these children.  While they are young enough that a little guidance can make a difference.  Who wouldn't want their kid to have a job they would enjoy rather than one they only "suffer through"?  Actually, when I read what those on the right have to say, I suspect that many want their children to "suffer".  Why?  Honestly, I don't know.  Are they against education because A, they couldn't do it, or B, they didn't try?


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## Samson (Apr 21, 2010)

HUGGY said:


> Yup!...  Says it right here in the camping and hiking manual..."Do Not Come Between A Momma Bear And Her Cubs!!!!"



yeah, says the same thing about wolves and assorted canines.....


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## manifold (Apr 26, 2010)

I find it a little bit strange that Echo never weighed in on this one.

I wonder why?


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## xsited1 (Apr 26, 2010)

manifold said:


> I find it a little bit strange that Echo never weighed in on this one.
> 
> I wonder why?



Because she doesn't like you. I don't like you either. You just watch yourself. We're wanted humans. I have the death sentence on twelve systems.


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## rdean (May 30, 2011)

California Girl said:


> uscitizen said:
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And another lie.


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## dblack (May 30, 2011)

judyd said:


> One thing they are not being taught is self-discipline.  Without that they will probably have difficulties in trying to achieve anything.



I suppose it's different for everyone, every family, and I agree with most of what you're saying about offering kids too many choices ("eat you breakfast and shut up!" ), but...

I found the above assumption to be incorrect. Our results were exactly the opposite, in fact.

When I went to public school, I did well in terms of grades, but self-discipline and the motivation to achieve anything were the most glaring omissions in my education. My own sons started out in public school but found it more and more dispiriting as they went and when they asked me if they could try 'unschooling', I was sympathetic.  Without getting into the details, it worked out great and, contrary to the comment above, self-discipline and responsibility were the direct by-products of the freedom implicit in unschooling. My boys developed a sense of purpose and control concerning their education that I never had. 

FWIW, the articled linked in the OP is a horrible representation of what unschooling is all about.


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## Polk (May 30, 2011)

As if this is any different from people homeschooling their kids to teach them Jesus rode a dinosaur.


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## dblack (May 30, 2011)

Polk said:


> As if this is any different from people homeschooling their kids to teach them Jesus rode a dinosaur.



???


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## HUGGY (May 30, 2011)

*Unschooling*

Is that anything like hiring a blind deaf mute as a babysitter?


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## Dabs (May 30, 2011)

Polk said:


> As if this is any different from people homeschooling their kids to teach them Jesus rode a dinosaur.



Dinosaur hell, He had himself a Harley back then


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## psikeyhackr (May 30, 2011)

Unschooling : How Good Morning America Got It All Wrong

Lee Stranahan: Unschooling : How Good Morning America Got It All Wrong  <-- Link

The media is about causing as much confusion as the educational system.

psik


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## Bones (May 30, 2011)

Good on them.  Public education just teaches kids how to be good unthinking worker bees.


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