# Anti-gunners have to explain these cases .......



## 2aguy (Dec 29, 2021)

Just thought this would be a good starting point for the real gun problem in this country....the democrat party releasing violent criminals with long histories of crime, violence and gun crime...

Related 2021 stories​
#1: 16-year-old charged with shooting man during robbery while awaiting trial for felony (January 12, 2021)
#2: Man fatally shot girlfriend while on electronic monitoring for November gun case, prosecutors say (January 20, 2021)
#3: On bail for 3 separate felony cases, “fanged” man now charged with killing 12-year-old in DUI crash (January 23, 2021)
#4: Man on affordable bail for his 3rd felony gun case is charged with weekend murder (January 28, 2021)
#5: Man charged with murder while on bail for 3rd gun case and escape (February 5, 2021)
#6: Man, on bail for attempted murder and robbery, charged with killing woman while speeding away from police traffic stop (February 25, 2021)
#7: Teen accused of shooting driver during Wednesday carjacking is awaiting trial for 3 felonies, prosecutors say (February 25, 2021)
#8: “Highly active” gang member charged with killing rival over haircut — while on affordable bail (March 4, 2021)
#9: On bail for five burglaries, man set fire to home, killing girlfriend and 10-year-old girl, prosecutors say (March 12, 2021)
#10: Man, on bail for gun case, is charged with attempted murder for shooting at carjacking victims (March 17, 2021)
#11: Man who shot cop and passerby hoped to be killed by CPD, prosecutors say (March 20, 2021)
#12: Man charged with shooting co-worker while on affordable bail for Lincoln Park carjacking (April 2, 2021)
#13 and #14: Two more men charged with shooting people in Chicago while on bail for felony cases (April 4, 2021)
#15: Man murdered childhood friend while awaiting trial on federal gun charges, prosecutors say (April 13, 2021)
#16: Man chased down and killed victim while on electronic monitoring for gun case, prosecutors say (April 18, 2021)
#17: 16-year-old charged with murder, robbery in alleged pot dealer rip-off (April 19, 2021)
#18: Man charged murder of 7-year-old at McDonald’s drive-thru has 2 pending felony cases, prosecutors say (April 25, 2021)
#19: Second man charged with killing 7-year-old at McDonald’s was on 4 felony bonds, including robbery and gun cases (May 1, 2021)
#20: Gunman in Diversey River Bowl shoot-out was on bail for another gun case, prosecutors say (June 2, 2021)
#21: Man’s accused of shooting up another car in traffic — while on bond for gun case (June 10, 2021)
#22: Man charged with attempted murder of CTA bus driver was AWOL in felony DUI case, prosecutors say (June 10, 2021)
#23 and #24: Two more men accused of shooting people while on bail for felonies (June 13, 2021)
#25: Man on bail for 2 felonies had pistol at hospital where his girlfriend was being treated for gunshot wound, prosecutors say (June 25, 2021)
Man charged with shooting tourist, killing passerby while AWOL on gun case, prosecutors say (June 26, 2021)
#26: Shooter in murder-suicide was on bail for two pending gun felonies, police say (July 6, 2021)
#27: Teen charged with killing 73-year-old carjacking victim was AWOL in felony stolen car case, prosecutors say (July 17, 2021)
#28: Man on felony bail killed another driver during highway robbery attempt, prosecutors say (July 17, 2021)
#29: On electronic monitoring for gun case, man escapes and shoots victim in the face, prosecutors say (July 23, 2021)
#30: Man, on bond for gun case, shot woman 10 times in her back, prosecutors say (July 23, 2021)
#31: Man shot 2 victims in separate robberies while on bail for felony gun case, prosecutors say (July 25, 2021)
#32: Teen with pending felony gun case shot man dead over shoulder bump, prosecutors say (July 28, 2021)
#33: Gunman in mass shooting was on $200 bond for pending firearms case, prosecutors say (August 12, 2021)
#34: Man tried to kill stranger during 8-minute random attack inside Lincoln Park store, prosecutors say (August 12, 2021)
#35: Man murdered another in cold blood while on bond for gun case, prosecutors say (August 12, 2021)
#36: Uber Eats driver was gunned down in random attack by man who’s on bond for gun case, prosecutors say (August 14, 2021)
#37: Man’s charged with trying to kill 2 cops while on a recognizance bond for injuring 2 cops who tried to arrest him in March (August 19, 2021)
#38: Man killed one, shot another while on bond for being a felon in possession of a firearm, prosecutors say (August 25, 2021)
#39 – Man’s charged with two separate shootings while AWOL on burglary charge (September 8, 2021)
#40: Chef is accused of slashing friend’s throat while on bond for allegedly stabbing his own brother to death (September 9, 2021)
#41: Man charged with firing 14 shots during carjacking — while on recognizance bond for stolen car case (February 10, 2021)
#42: Man killed 1, injured 3 in expressway shooting while on bond for attempted murder, prosecutor say (September 11, 2021)
#43: Man shot victim 11 times while awaiting new trial in gun case, prosecutors say (September 22, 2021)
#44: Man charged with trying to kill his girlfriend while on felony bond (September 22, 2021)
#45: Man beat, shot at his pregnant girlfriend while free on felony case, prosecutors say (September 26, 2021)
#46: Man shot woman during argument over phone messages while on bail for felony gun case, prosecutors say (October 10, 2021)
#47: Twice-convicted gun offender shot man while on bail for another gun case and escape, prosecutors say (October 12, 2021)
#48: Five-time felon killed his own cousin while on electronic monitoring for pending narcotics case, prosecutors say (November 3, 2021)
#49: Gunman shot a passing car while firing across Chicago Avenue — and while on felony bond (November 6, 2021)
#50: Uber driver was murdered by a man who was on felony bail, federal prosecutors say. But that’s only part of the story. (November 8, 2021)
#51: Concealed carry holder kills catalytic converter thief who opened fire on him in West Lakeview (November 11, 2021)
#52: Man who shot driver in South Loop on Saturday was AWOL from a pending felony case, prosecutors say (November 23, 2021)
#53: Man charged with shooting 1-year-old while on recognizance bond for felony gun case (November 26, 2021)
#54: Man opened fire on trucker during expressway dispute — while on bond for being a felon in possession of a firearm, prosecutors say (November 27, 2021)
#55: Man killed 2, shot 3 more while awaiting trial for carjacking, prosecutors say (November 28, 2021)
#56: Man tried to kill his wife on the Kennedy Expressway while on bond for domestic battery, on parole for domestic battery, and on conditional discharge for domestic battery, prosecutors say (November 29, 2021)
#57: Man shot store clerk while on bond for felony gun case, prosecutors say (December 10, 2021)
#58: Man opened fire on cops in traffic — while on bond for felony gun case, prosecutors say (December 13, 2021)
#28 (again): Anti-violence worker is charged with murder and attempted murder while on felony bail. It’s the second murder he’s accused of committing while on bond. (December 15, 2021)
#59: Convicted felon shot and killed another man while on bond for being a felon in possession of a firearm, prosecutors say (December 16, 2021)
#60: Man shot a teenager during a drug deal — while on electronic monitoring for gun and drug cases, prosecutors say (December 18, 2021)
#61: Felon shot and killed the mother of his children while he was on bail for possessing a stolen firearm, prosecutors say (December 21, 2021)









						#62: Convicted felon, on bail for gun case, tried to kill 2 Chicago cops on Christmas Eve, prosecutors say
					

Nokomis Jefferson was on bond for being a felon in possession of a firearm when he allegedly shot at and tried to kill two Chicago police officers on Christmas Eve.




					cwbchicago.com


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## Confederate Soldier (Dec 29, 2021)

Felons that aren't supposed to have guns, because it is illegal for a felon to have a gun, but have them anyway because felons don't have a great track record of following the law.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Dec 29, 2021)

Mighty quiet in here.


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## Pete7469 (Dec 29, 2021)

*I think I can answer for them in this thread.....*

*WAYSIZIM!!!!!!
WAYSIZIM!!!!!!
WAYSIZIM!!!!!!
WAYSIZIM!!!!!!*


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Dec 29, 2021)

Pete7469 said:


> *I think I can answer for them in this thread.....*
> 
> *WAYSIZIM!!!!!!
> WAYSIZIM!!!!!!
> ...


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 29, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Just thought this would be a good starting point for the real gun problem in this country....the democrat party releasing violent criminals with long histories of crime, violence and gun crime...
> 
> Related 2021 stories​
> #1: 16-year-old charged with shooting man during robbery while awaiting trial for felony (January 12, 2021)
> ...


The thread premise is a lie. 

No one is 'anti-gun.'


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## 2aguy (Dec 29, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The thread premise is a lie.
> 
> No one is 'anti-gun.'




They are anti people they don't like owning guns, you dimwit....leftists love having guns, they just don't want the people they intend on oppressing and murdering having guns too....


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Dec 29, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The thread premise is a lie.
> 
> No one is 'anti-gun.'


Your post is a lie.

Are you for a bullshit "assault weapons ban"?

That is, by any reasonable definition, anti-gun.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Dec 29, 2021)

2aguy said:


> They are anti people they don't like owning guns, you dimwit....leftists love having guns, they just don't want the people they intend on oppressing and murdering having guns too....


To advocate for necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures is not to be ‘anti-gun.’

That’s why the thread premise is a lie.


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## Augustine_ (Dec 29, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Mighty quiet in here.


Look up his other 10,000 other threads on this exact same topic.  An internet nutjob can only be humored so many times before it gets too boring.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Dec 29, 2021)

Augustine_ said:


> Look up his other 10,000 other threads on this exact same topic.  An internet nutjob can only be humored so many times before it gets too boring.


You said it.  You can't back up your big mouth, keep it shut.


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## miketx (Dec 31, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> To advocate for necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures is not to be ‘anti-gun.’
> 
> That’s why the thread premise is a lie.


You're a lie.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 31, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> To advocate for necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures is not to be ‘anti-gun.’


To do that, you must demonstrate the necessity for and efficacy of said regulations.
Else, you advocate unnecessary and ineffective restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms.
That -is- anti gun.


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## Captain Caveman (Dec 31, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Just thought this would be a good starting point for the real gun problem in this country....the democrat party releasing violent criminals with long histories of crime, violence and gun crime...
> 
> Related 2021 stories​
> #1: 16-year-old charged with shooting man during robbery while awaiting trial for felony (January 12, 2021)
> ...


In the UK, we're not anti gun and your 61 examples would be scrutinized under this -


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## Otis Mayfield (Dec 31, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Just thought this would be a good starting point for the real gun problem in this country....the democrat party releasing violent criminals with long histories of crime, violence and gun crime...
> 
> Related 2021 stories​
> #1: 16-year-old charged with shooting man during robbery while awaiting trial for felony (January 12, 2021)
> ...




Those darn colerts!


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## Rye Catcher (Dec 31, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Just thought this would be a good starting point for the real gun problem in this country....the democrat party releasing violent criminals with long histories of crime, violence and gun crime...
> 
> Related 2021 stories​
> #1: 16-year-old charged with shooting man during robbery while awaiting trial for felony (January 12, 2021)
> ...


Guns kill people.  Amazing, you forgot Rittenhouse.


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## JustAGuy1 (Dec 31, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> To advocate for necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures is not to be ‘anti-gun.’
> 
> That’s why the thread premise is a lie.



We already have that.


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## Bob Blaylock (Dec 31, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Anti-gunners have to explain these cases .......
> 
> Just thought this would be a good starting point for the real gun problem in this country....the democrat party releasing violent criminals with long histories of crime, violence and gun crime...
> 
> ...



  The explanation is obvious.

_“Anti-gunners”_ are on the side of criminals, and against the side of human beings.  Most will deny it if confronted directly, but the polices that they support put the lie to their denials.  As you very often point out, it is the same elements that are opposed to allowing government to take appropriate measures to remove criminals from free society and to protect humans from them, who also seek to deny humans the right to possess the means to defend ourselves against criminals.


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## 2aguy (Dec 31, 2021)

Captain Caveman said:


> In the UK, we're not anti gun and your 61 examples would be scrutinized under this -



62, and growing.....CWB Chicago is the website for crime in Chicago.......and they don't even cover all of these stories......


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## 2aguy (Dec 31, 2021)

Bob Blaylock said:


> The explanation is obvious.
> 
> _“Anti-gunners”_ are on the side of criminals, and against the side of human beings.  Most will deny it if confronted directly, but the polices that they support put the lie to their denials.  As you very often point out, it is the same elements that are opposed to allowing government to take appropriate measures to remove criminals from free society and to protect humans from them, who also seek to deny humans the right to possess the means to defend ourselves against criminals.




And that is why they do not answer the questions in my signature line when I directly ask them for their answers......


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## Bob Blaylock (Dec 31, 2021)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Your post is a lie.



  Have you ever seen C_Clayton_Jones post anything that wasn't a lie?


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## Bob Blaylock (Dec 31, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> Guns kill people. Amazing, you forgot Rittenhouse.



  No people were killed in connection with anything to do with Mr. Rittenhouse.

  Two subhuman pieces of criminal shit were exterminated, but those do not count as people.

  Of course, I wouldn't expect you to understand or care about the distinction between criminals and human beings.


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## Bob Blaylock (Dec 31, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > _“Anti-gunners”_ are on the side of criminals, and against the side of human beings.
> ...



  True.

_A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......_​_Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?_​_A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?_​
  Those on the left *wrong* are on the side of the rapist.  Few will openly admit it, but if they don't actively want the woman to be raped, wish they were the ones getting to do it themselves, they have, at the very least, a depraved-heart indifference to the woman being raped or otherwise harmed.

  They would gladly sent that women to prison for possessing a weapon, or better yet, for using that weapon to stop some piece of shit from raping her, but they will just as gladly make sure that the rapist goes free.

  These are the same filth who want to allow dangerous, mentally-defective, morally-depraved male perverts calling themselves _“trans women”_ to have unfettered access to places where women are particularly vulnerable, such as restrooms, dressing rooms, locker rooms, communal showers, and so on; for the very same reasons.


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## Captain Caveman (Dec 31, 2021)

2aguy said:


> 62, and growing.....CWB Chicago is the website for crime in Chicago.......and they don't even cover all of these stories......


Oh well, if you can cover 42,220 more, that's the whole of the US done. Just 99.85% to go.


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## Bob Blaylock (Dec 31, 2021)

Captain Caveman said:


> The old debating by hypotheticals technique.
> 
> Ok, the serial rapist is you, so yes, I hope she blows your fucking brains out.



  What point do you think you are making?

  If I were a serial rapist, then of course, I wouldn't want my head blown off.  But if I were a serial rapist, then I would fully deserve to have my head blown off, or better yet, to die in some much more painful manner.  And if I were a serial rapist, the world would be made a much better place if that was what happened to me.

  I'm not a serial rapist, though.  I am, however, a husband, a brother, a cousin, a nephew, an uncle, and a friend to many wonderful women.  If any of my sister, my niece, my female cousins, my aunts, or other women with whom I were acquainted was raped, I would want the subhuman piece of shit responsible for it to have its head blown off, or better yet, to die in some much more painful manner.


  I care much more about the safety and well-being of women in general, and especially fo those with whom I am acquainted, than I would ever care about any subhuman piece of shit rapist.


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## M14 Shooter (Dec 31, 2021)

Rye Catcher said:


> Guns kill people.


Guns can be used to kill people.
This explains why our right to own and use them is specifically protected by the constitution.


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## Rye Catcher (Jan 1, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> The explanation is obvious.
> 
> _“Anti-gunners”_ are on the side of criminals, and against the side of human beings.  Most will deny it if confronted directly, but the polices that they support put the lie to their denials.  As you very often point out, it is the same elements that are opposed to allowing government to take appropriate measures to remove criminals from free society and to protect humans from them, who also seek to deny humans the right to possess the means to defend ourselves against criminals.


It's people like you who are out of touch with reality.  Supporters for gun control are not "Anti-Gunners"; those who are sober, sane and obey the laws of our nation have the privilege to own firearms built for sport or defense.  However, it is not an absolute Right.

Guns, per se, are not mentioned in the 2nd Amendment, the word is "Arms".  And arms include bombs, land minds, cannons, SAMS, torpedoes, grenades and other weapons of war controlled by law.  So are long guns and hand guns, and thus they too need to be controlled and not to be sold or given to others without background checks.


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## Rye Catcher (Jan 1, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> What point do you think you are making?
> 
> If I were a serial rapist, then of course, I wouldn't want my head blown off.  But if I were a serial rapist, then I would fully deserve to have my head blown off, or better yet, to die in some much more painful manner.  And if I were a serial rapist, the world would be made a much better place if that was what happened to me.
> 
> ...


There are laws to punish rapists, and laws against vigilantes too.


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> It's people like you who are out of touch with reality.  Supporters for gun control are not "Anti-Gunners"; those who are sober, sane and obey the laws of our nation have the privilege to own firearms built for sport or defense.  However, it is not an absolute Right.
> 
> Guns, per se, are not mentioned in the 2nd Amendment, the word is "Arms".  And arms include bombs, land minds, cannons, SAMS, torpedoes, grenades and other weapons of war controlled by law.  So are long guns and hand guns, and thus they too need to be controlled and not to be sold or given to others without background checks.




War is Peace, Peace is War.  Freedom is Slavery, Slavery is Freedom......

The 1st Amendment does not mention specific religions, just "religions." So this means the government can ban any and all religions as long as "religion" in general is protected.....

The 1st Amendment doesn't protect journalists....just "The Press" in general.......so in order to be a journalist you will need to get permission from the state.....


Right?


You are such a moron...


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> It's people like you who are out of touch with reality.  Supporters for gun control are not "Anti-Gunners"; those who are sober, sane and obey the laws of our nation have the privilege to own firearms built for sport or defense.  However, it is not an absolute Right.
> 
> Guns, per se, are not mentioned in the 2nd Amendment, the word is "Arms".  And arms include bombs, land minds, cannons, SAMS, torpedoes, grenades and other weapons of war controlled by law.  So are long guns and hand guns, and thus they too need to be controlled and not to be sold or given to others without background checks.




*Supporters for gun control are not "Anti-Gunners";

I agree completely.....you guys support guns in your hands and in the hands of the government agents you want to use to punish and murder your political enemies......we know this from human history....*


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## Rye Catcher (Jan 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> War is Peace, Peace is War.  Freedom is Slavery, Slavery is Peace......
> 
> The 1st Amendment does not mention specific religions, just "religions." So this means the government can ban any and all religions as long as "religion" in general is protected.....
> 
> ...


LOL  What an absurd effort to protect gun ownership.  

Q.  Do you support a Paranoid Schizophrenic's absolute right to own or possess a firearm?

Q.  Do you believe you can hunt down and kill an unarmed rapist?


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> LOL  What an absurd effort to protect gun ownership.
> 
> Q.  Do you support a Paranoid Schizophrenic's absolute right to own or possess a firearm?
> 
> Q.  Do you believe you can hunt down and kill an unarmed rapist?




Felons and the dangerously mentally ill, determined through the courts, do not have a Right to own guns.......

Once an attack is stopped, you cannot kill your attacker.

Now...you answer these......

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......

Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?

A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?
=======
The British government will not allow a woman to own and carry a gun to prevent being gang raped in a London park.....saying she does not have "good reason," to own the gun.

A member of the House of Lords wants to quail hunt with his rich friends on his private country estate, and the British government gives him the gun....because he has "good reason."
Does this make sense to you?


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## Rye Catcher (Jan 1, 2022)

BTW:

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> BTW:
> 
> WAR IS PEACE
> FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
> IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH




And leave it to you to know them by heart......


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## Rye Catcher (Jan 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Felons and the dangerously mentally ill, determined through the courts, do not have a Right to own guns.......
> 
> Once an attack is stopped, you cannot kill your attacker.
> 
> ...



STATEMENT:  "Felons and the dangerously mentally ill, determined through the courts, do not have a Right to own guns......."

RESPONSE:  Herein is the proof that "shall not be infringed" is hyperbole, and thus supports the opinion that arms can be are legally controlled.

Here's the problem:

_Background checks are the foundation of any comprehensive gun violence prevention strategy. Current federal law requires that background checks be conducted whenever a person attempts to buy a gun from a licensed gun dealer. This is to ensure that the buyer is not legally prohibited from having the gun.

While federal law requires background checks for all gun sales by licensed gun dealers, it does not require background checks for guns sold by unlicensed sellers, like non-dealers who sell guns online or at gun shows. This loophole enables people with felony convictions, domestic abuse restraining orders, and other people with prohibiting histories to buy guns with no questions asked. The loophole should be closed to require background checks on all gun sales—not just on the sale of firearms from licensed gun dealers._









						Background Checks on All Gun Sales
					

People with dangerous histories can easily circumvent the background check system simply by purchasing their firearm online or at a gun show.




					everytownresearch.org
				




Do you agree with this statement or do you still stand by "shall not be infringed"?


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## Rye Catcher (Jan 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And leave it to you to know them by heart......


Comes with an education, a brain not a heart.


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> STATEMENT:  "Felons and the dangerously mentally ill, determined through the courts, do not have a Right to own guns......."
> 
> RESPONSE:  Herein is the proof that "shall not be infringed" is hyperbole, and thus supports the opinion that arms can be are legally controlled.
> 
> ...




No....universal background checks are simply the step you need in order to demand gun registration.   Private sales of guns are not the source of criminals guns.  Straw buyers, knowingly selling to criminals is  a crime......gone into with the full intent of selling weapons to prohibited people.

You guys want gun registration...you need to lock down who has what gun before you pass gun bans and confiscation...you know this from all the other countries that first registered guns, then later banned them......

Sell that to biden voters...they are dumb enough to not understand what you are doing.

You can't know that a background check was done without registering guns.......and the added cost of requiring background checks for private gun sales is simply a bonus for gun grabbers....when the Widow jones is told by her lawyer that he has to spend between 50-250 dollars to sell her husbands gun collection...anti-gunners hope she will simply choose to hand over the collection to the police......


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> STATEMENT:  "Felons and the dangerously mentally ill, determined through the courts, do not have a Right to own guns......."
> 
> RESPONSE:  Herein is the proof that "shall not be infringed" is hyperbole, and thus supports the opinion that arms can be are legally controlled.
> 
> ...




People who commit felonies are held in prison....their lose their freedom of movement........to try to say that banning convicted felons and the adjudicated, dangerously mentally ill as demonstrating that "shall not be infringed," is a silly concept is just weak on your part...

You want to infringe on law abiding people who have done nothing wrong.......to them applies "shall not be infringed," the very infringing that you want desperately to do....


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> STATEMENT:  "Felons and the dangerously mentally ill, determined through the courts, do not have a Right to own guns......."
> 
> RESPONSE:  Herein is the proof that "shall not be infringed" is hyperbole, and thus supports the opinion that arms can be are legally controlled.
> 
> ...




Now my question....

Do you support a free app that allows anyone, anywhere to conduct a criminal background check on anyone...with no record kept.....?  With complete access to both Federal and State criminal Justice records.


And no gun registration.

You want to sell your gun.....pull up the app, punch in the name, birthday of the buyer, you get yes or no to criminal record.....and that's it.......no record is kept of the search........


Do you support this?


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## 2aguy (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> STATEMENT:  "Felons and the dangerously mentally ill, determined through the courts, do not have a Right to own guns......."
> 
> RESPONSE:  Herein is the proof that "shall not be infringed" is hyperbole, and thus supports the opinion that arms can be are legally controlled.
> 
> ...



Yes or no.  Do you want to register guns?


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## Bob Blaylock (Jan 1, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Now...you answer these......
> 
> A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......
> 
> ...



  It's telling that Rye Catcher refuses to answer this.

  And obvious, why.

Rye Catcher is demonstrating the truth of what I said earlier, in this very thread, about its kind…



Bob Blaylock said:


> Those on the left *wrong* are on the side of the rapist. Few will openly admit it, but if they don't actively want the woman to be raped, wish they were the ones getting to do it themselves, they have, at the very least, a depraved-heart indifference to the woman being raped or otherwise harmed.
> 
> They would gladly sent that women to prison for possessing a weapon, or better yet, for using that weapon to stop some piece of shit from raping her, but they will just as gladly make sure that the rapist goes free.
> 
> These are the same filth who want to allow dangerous, mentally-defective, morally-depraved male perverts calling themselves _“trans women”_ to have unfettered access to places where women are particularly vulnerable, such as restrooms, dressing rooms, locker rooms, communal showers, and so on; for the very same reasons.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 1, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> It's people like you who are out of touch with reality.  Supporters for gun control are not "Anti-Gunners"; those who are sober, sane and obey the laws of our nation *have the privilege to own firearms built for sport or defense*.  However, it is not an absolute Right.


^^^^
*This *is a lie.  They have the _right_, and that _right _includes all firearms in common use for traditionally lawful purposes.
And that right is at least as absolute as the right to free speech, the right to go to church, the right to report the news, the right to vote and the right to have an abortion.


Rye Catcher said:


> Guns, per se, are not mentioned in the 2nd Amendment, the word is "Arms".


If you want to argue the 2nd Amendment protects the right to own and use M60 machine guns, et al, I'm with you.


Rye Catcher said:


> So are long guns and hand guns, and thus they too need to be controlled...


Non seq
The fact firerams are considered "arms" under the 2nd Amendment in no way means they need to be "controlled".


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Just thought this would be a good starting point for the real gun problem in this country....the democrat party releasing violent criminals with long histories of crime, violence and gun crime...



It's been explained to you many times. 

We don't have enough jail cells to lock up everyone who commits a mere gun possession crime.  

We don't have enough jail cells to lock up those who commit property crimes. 

We don't have enough jail cells to lock up those who commit minor assault.  

We lock up 2 million people.  We have another 7 million on probation or parole and 100 million Americans have a police record.   

We can't lock them all up.


----------



## miketx (Sep 11, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> It's been explained to you many times.
> 
> We don't have enough jail cells to lock up everyone who commits a mere gun possession crime.
> 
> ...


Can't never could do nothing.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 11, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yes or no. Do you want to register guns?



Yes.  And make them a lot harder to get.  

I recently applied for a FOID card.   I paid $11.00 and filled out a form and now I have a card that says I can buy a gun any time I want.   That's it.  I can't imagine they did much of an investigation other than punch my name into a computer and see if anything came up.


----------



## miketx (Sep 11, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes.  And make them a lot harder to get.
> 
> I recently applied for a FOID card.   I paid $11.00 and filled out a form and now I have a card that says I can buy a gun any time I want.   That's it.  I can't imagine they did much of an investigation other than punch my name into a computer and see if anything came up.


Nazi.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 11, 2022)

miketx said:


> Nazi.



NO, just someone who doesn't want to share his streets with crazy people who are able to get guns and not treatment. 

Here's a crazy idea.  Instead of making it HARD for the mentally ill to get treatment and EASY for them to get guns, let's make it HARD for them to get guns and EASY for them to get treatment.  

I mean, yeah, I know, it's not what the Founding Slave Rapists would have wanted, but they didn't have to face down Joker Holmes or Awake the Rapper with an AR-15.


----------



## miketx (Sep 11, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> NO, just someone who doesn't want to share his streets with crazy people who are able to get guns and not treatment.
> 
> Here's a crazy idea.  Instead of making it HARD for the mentally ill to get treatment and EASY for them to get guns, let's make it HARD for them to get guns and EASY for them to get treatment.
> 
> I mean, yeah, I know, it's not what the Founding Slave Rapists would have wanted, but they didn't have to face down Joker Holmes or Awake the Rapper with an AR-15.


Go after those people Nazi instead of innocent people.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 11, 2022)

miketx said:


> Go after those people Nazi instead of innocent people.



How do you tell the crazy people from the innocent people without actually, you know, doing real background checks. 

More importantly, why am I talking to you, it's not like you are capable of an intelligent conversation.


----------



## miketx (Sep 11, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> How do you tell the crazy people from the innocent people without actually, you know, doing real background checks.
> 
> More importantly, why am I talking to you, it's not like you are capable of an intelligent conversation.


Nazi sez what?


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 11, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> It's been explained to you many times.
> 
> We don't have enough jail cells to lock up everyone who commits a mere gun possession crime.
> 
> ...




wrong.....the democrats keep releasing the most violent, repeat gun offenders....sooo, you dumb ass, it doesn't matter how many people you temporarily put in jail, if you let them out over and over again so they can keep shooting and killing people.......

We aren't talking minor assualts...we are talking violent felons caught with illegal guns over and over again, even caught using those guns..........and the democrats just let them walk out, over and over again....

From Chicago.......all by itself...









						#36: Driver exchanged shots with gunman in another car while on felony bail, prosecutors say
					

Prosecutors say a man who was convicted of exchanging shots in a rolling gunbattle in 2019 was once again engaged in a shootout while traveling in a car in Chicago this week.




					cwbchicago.com
				










Related 2022 Stories​#1: Man who tried to shoot 3 outside a North Side restaurant on New Year’s Day had a pending felony case, prosecutors say (January 6, 2022)

#2: Felon awaiting trial for 4 sexual assault cases escaped from electronic monitoring and tried to kill investigators who tracked him down, prosecutors say (January 15, 2022)

#3: With felony gun case pending, man shot passerby during “exchange of gunfire,” prosecutors say (January 23, 2022)

#4: Seven-time felon on electronic monitoring for his 4th gun case tried to shoot and kill his girlfriend’s father, prosecutors say (January 26, 2022)

#5: Teen on electronic monitoring for TWO gun cases carjacked a Lyft driver, then shot a 15-year-old at point-blank range, prosecutors say (February 10, 2022)

#6: Man killed nursing student months after going AWOL from felony DUI case, prosecutors say (February 20, 2022)

#7: Man shot and killed his own brother while on bail for a felony gun case, prosecutors say (February 22, 2022)

#8: Beloved Hyde Park bartender was killed by a robber who has 3 pending felony cases, prosecutors said (March 7, 2022)

#9: Man involved in New Year’s shoot-out that left one dead was on bail for his 3rd gun felony, prosecutors say (March 8, 2022)

#10: An 11-time convicted felon shot a 3-year-old and tried to kill the boy’s mother while on felony bail, prosecutors say (March 11, 2022)

#11: Man allegedly stabbed another to death 4 days after getting released on felony bail (March 29, 2022)

#12: He opened fire on his ex’s house, killing a man, prosecutors say. But he was supposed to be home 24/7 for a pending felony gun case. (March 29, 2022)

#13: Man shot a woman, fired toward 4 others, while on bond for being a felon in possession of a firearm, prosecutors say (April 7, 2022)

#14: Man killed his parents in an Uptown senior center while on bond for federal armed robbery and gun charges, prosecutors say (April 14. 2022)

#15: Four-time felon opened fire on a carload of victims, injuring 2 while on bond for felony gun case, prosecutors say (April 20, 2022)

#16: Man shot his ex this month and her boyfriend last month, prosecutors say. He was on felony bail. (April 24, 2022)

#17: Man tried to kill 2 cable TV installers over a missing dog, prosecutors say. He was on bail at the time. (April 30, 2022)

#18: Man escaped from electronic monitoring and ran over a cop in a stolen car while fleeing a murder scene, prosecutors say (May 19, 2022)

#19: A two-time felon circled a West Side neighborhood for 15 minutes looking for someone to kill in a revenge murder, prosecutors say. He was on bond for a gun case at the time. (May 21, 2022)

#20: Alleged mass shooter had a felony gun case pending when he killed 2, wounded 7 near Magnificent Mile, records show (May 22, 2022)

#21: Five months after escaping from electronic monitoring, he helped shoot up a carload of people, injuring 2, prosecutors say (May 29, 2022)

#22: Man accused of setting ‘Walking Man’ on fire has been AWOL from 2 felony cases for 15 months, court records show (May 30, 2022)

#23: Two weeks after being charged with having a stolen rifle in a hijacked car, he allegedly shot a man with a rifle after getting out of a hijacked car (June 11, 2022)

#24: Gunman left a woman paralyzed in River North just 4 weeks after officials sent his felony gun case to a “peace circle,” prosecutors say (June 13, 2022)

#25: Teen acted as murderer’s driver while awaiting trial for carjacking, stolen car cases: prosecutors say (July 6, 2022)

#26: Man shot victim 5 times, days after being charged in a felony narcotics case, prosecutors say (July 7, 2022)

#27: Concealed carry holder shot man who opened fire on his car at McDonald’s, prosecutors say (July 14, 2022)

#28: Terrorism, attempted murder charges filed against man who allegedly detonated bomb on Pink Line in May (August 8, 2022)

#29: Three-time felon shot robbery victim while on bail for felony gun case, prosecutors say (August 23, 2022)

#30: Concealed carry holder shoots 7-time felon who tried to kill him, prosecutors say. That man was on bail for a felony gun case. (August 25, 2022)

#31: Anti-violence worker, who’s also a 9-time felon, shot himself in the butt at a Bucktown gas station while on felony bail, prosecutors say (August 25, 2022)

#32: Killer shot motorcyclist 16 times while awaiting trial for a felony gun case, prosecutors say (September 1, 2022)

#33: Man killed his half-sister’s boyfriend while on electronic monitoring for shooting someone else, prosecutors say (September 5, 2022)

#34: Two months after posting bail for a felony gun case, he participated in a botched robbery that left the victim dead, prosecutors say (September 8, 2022)

#35: One week after being released on felony gun charge, man shot and killed rival gang member in random attack, prosecutors say (September 8, 2022)

Related 2021 Stories

Related 2020 Stories

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----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 11, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> NO, just someone who doesn't want to share his streets with crazy people who are able to get guns and not treatment.



  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

  You don't want people no crazier than yourself to get a gun, so you jumped through the hoops to get a gun yourself.

  Of course, it is not at all unusual for a hypocritical left *wrong*-wing piece of shit to not be willing itself to obey the same rules that it wants to impose on others.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> wrong.....the democrats keep releasing the most violent, repeat gun offenders....sooo, you dumb ass, it doesn't matter how many people you temporarily put in jail, if you let them out over and over again so they can keep shooting and killing people.......



You are comparing apples and oranges.   Bail isn't the same as letting people out.  People are entitled to bail because they are innocent until proven guilty.  Hypothetically, we shouldn't be locking anyone up before they are convicted. 



2aguy said:


> We aren't talking minor assualts...we are talking violent felons caught with illegal guns over and over again, even caught using those guns..........and the democrats just let them walk out, over and over again....



Because - again- no room in the jails to hold them.  

This is always the Conservative Conundrum... you want to impose extreme morality on people, but don't want to commit the resources to actually enforce it. So you let any crazy who wants a gun have a gun, make it really, really easy to get one, and then complain when you can't lock up everyone for merely having one because you didn't want to pay the taxes for building the jails.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 12, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
> 
> You don't want people no crazier than yourself to get a gun, so you jumped through the hoops to get a gun yourself.
> 
> Of course, it is not at all unusual for a hypocritical left *wrong*-wing piece of shit to not be willing itself to obey the same rules that it wants to impose on others.



Well, except that I've undergone psych tests that tell me I'm actually... pretty normal, more amazing after what I've gone through in life. I go to my job every day, enjoy social activities with my girlfriend and family, pay my bills on time. 

I'm an honorably discharged veteran with no criminal record.   But what I want - get this - is for the government to do more than take my word for it.  

Now, I had a pretty good credit score, and had been doing business with that bank for 20 years.  Yet they STILL made me jump through a bunch of hoops to get a mortgage for my new place.   

When I recently started a job, even though a manager had recommended me for it, the company STILL performed a thorough background check where they checked my credit, my former employers, my former co-workers, etc.  

In short, they didn't just take my word for it, they checked it out. 

I kind of want the gun sellers to do the same thing so they aren't selling to Joker Holmes or Awake the Rapper.  

Oh, for the record, I'm probably not going to buy a gun.  I just wanted to see how tough the screening process was for getting a FOID card, and the answer is- not very.  

$11.00 and fill out a form.  

Well, it's nice to have a second form of ID with my picture on it.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 12, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You are comparing apples and oranges.   Bail isn't the same as letting people out.  People are entitled to bail because they are innocent until proven guilty.  Hypothetically, we shouldn't be locking anyone up before they are convicted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wrong.........you can keep lying, but normal people who never paid attention before are now paying attention...the democrats have been releasing violent criminals over and over again........and using "bail reform," as the excuse..........

We have plenty of room to hold criminals.....the democrats just choose to release the most violent ones over and over again....


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Wrong.........you can keep lying, but normal people who never paid attention before are now paying attention...the democrats have been releasing violent criminals over and over again........and using "bail reform," as the excuse..........



Guy, it's not the winner issue you think it is.  

If the GOP does well, it will be because of Gerrymandering, not because people have come to love their awful ideas.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 12, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Guy, it's not the winner issue you think it is.
> 
> If the GOP does well, it will be because of Gerrymandering, not because people have come to love their awful ideas.


That along with Republican voter suppression and Democrats not bothering to show up.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 12, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> That along with Republican voter suppression and Democrats not bothering to show up.



Yeah, I think they are going to be surprised how many Democratic women show up after the Roe v. Wade reversal.


----------



## Canon Shooter (Sep 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes.  And make them a lot harder to get.



Anti-gun whackos always say they want more laws in the name of "safety".

Do you believe that a gun registry would make things safer?


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 14, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> To advocate for necessary, proper, and Constitutional firearm regulatory measures is not to be ‘anti-gun.’
> 
> That’s why the thread premise is a lie.


You have to get three-fourths of the States to ratify an amendment and you know that will never happen, so you loons can only use unconstitutional means to infringe on a persons rights.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 14, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> You have to get three-fourths of the States to ratify an amendment and you know that will never happen, so you loons can only use unconstitutional means to infringe on a persons rights.



Actually, all we really need to do is repeal the law that exempts gun makers from lawsuits.  

After a few million dollar payouts, you'd be amazed how fast the Gun Makers will scream "Well Regulated Militias!!!"


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 14, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, all we really need to do is repeal the law that exempts gun makers from lawsuits.
> 
> After a few million dollar payouts, you'd be amazed how fast the Gun Makers will scream "Well Regulated Militias!!!"


So sneaky means to deny people a Constitutional right. Gun manufacturers are no more responsible for gun crime than car makers are for accidents. 

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens how about we use harsher punishment for crimes committed with firearms.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 14, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Instead of punishing law abiding citizens how about we use harsher punishment for crimes committed with firearms.



Incel Joe is on the side of criminals, and against the side of human beings.

  He's in favor of allowing criminals to harm human beings, and opposed to doing anything to deter them from doing so.

  Keep that in mind any time you read anything he says about how he thinks we should deal with crime, and you'll see that from that point of view, it makes perfect sense.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 14, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> So sneaky means to deny people a Constitutional right. Gun manufacturers are no more responsible for gun crime than car makers are for accidents.
> 
> Instead of punishing law abiding citizens how about we use harsher punishment for crimes committed with firearms.



Joe is going to be a fascist no matter how often we try to educate him…


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 14, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> So sneaky means to deny people a Constitutional right. Gun manufacturers are no more responsible for gun crime than car makers are for accidents.
> 
> Instead of punishing law abiding citizens how about we use harsher punishment for crimes committed with firearms.



We tried that, dummy.  We lock up 2 million people.  Locking people up just makes matters worse, because if they weren't an anti-social maniac when they went in, they are when they come out. 

We have 100 million Americans with a police record.... we can't lock them all up. 



Bob Blaylock said:


> He's in favor of allowing criminals to harm human beings, and opposed to doing anything to deter them from doing so.
> 
> Keep that in mind any time you read anything he says about how he thinks we should deal with crime, and you'll see that from that point of view, it makes perfect sense.



Actually, it makes sense because that's what other countries do, and they have NOWHERE NEAR OUR CRIME RATES.   Now, I deal with a lot of people all around the world in my business, and the one thing that they just don't understand about America is all our crime.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 14, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We tried that, dummy.  We lock up 2 million people.  Locking people up just makes matters worse, because if they weren't an anti-social maniac when they went in, they are when they come out.
> 
> We have 100 million Americans with a police record.... we can't lock them all up.
> 
> ...


That's because you loons care about the criminals more than the victims and made it so that prison is no longer a deterrent. Commit a gun crime with a gun and get 20 years hard labor, murder someone get an appeal, lose and a year later you are put to death. 

I don't give a fuck what foreigners say. Every country you anti-2nd loons love to crow about have never had a Constitutional right to own firearms and in Europe it shows. The German's have run roughshod over the area twice. The Chinese and Soviets are another shiny example of gun control that ended in the murder of millions. History, learn and remember or live that shit over and over.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 15, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> That's because you loons care about the criminals more than the victims and made it so that prison is no longer a deterrent. Commit a gun crime with a gun and get 20 years hard labor, murder someone get an appeal, lose and a year later you are put to death.



Uh, yeah, guy, let's get real.  We lock up 2 million people.   The Death Penalty costs millions of dollars to put one person to death, which is why we only execute about 15 people a year... we can't afford it. I love it when rightwingers whine about how nice prison is, when they wouldn't last a week in one. 



ThunderKiss1965 said:


> I don't give a fuck what foreigners say. Every country you anti-2nd loons love to crow about have never had a Constitutional right to own firearms and in Europe it shows. The German's have run roughshod over the area twice. The Chinese and Soviets are another shiny example of gun control that ended in the murder of millions. History, learn and remember or live that shit over and over.



And America murdered millions of Native Americans. Whining about Genocide is a little silly, everyone has skeletons in their closet.  Guns don't stop genocides when a government is determined to wipe someone out.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, yeah, guy, let's get real.  We lock up 2 million people.   The Death Penalty costs millions of dollars to put one person to death, which is why we only execute about 15 people a year... we can't afford it. I love it when rightwingers whine about how nice prison is, when they wouldn't last a week in one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what your saying is that the citizenry should just let the Government kill as many as they want ?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 15, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> So what your saying is that the citizenry should just let the Government kill as many as they want ?



I'm saying if the government decides to kill you, they are going to fucking kill you and there probably isn't much you can do about it except run. 

That isn't a good enough excuse to continue to allow crazy people to buy guns.   I don't worry the FBI is going to pull a Waco on my house, because I'm not doing anything that would attract their attention.  

I am legitimately concerned that I or someone I care about might get shot because someone who had no business owning a gun was allowed to buy one.  Because every time we have a mass shooting, we find out two things. 

1) Everyone in that person's life knew he was crazy.
2) He had absolutely no problem buying a gun.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm saying if the government decides to kill you, they are going to fucking kill you and there probably isn't much you can do about it except run.
> 
> That isn't a good enough excuse to continue to allow crazy people to buy guns.   I don't worry the FBI is going to pull a Waco on my house, because I'm not doing anything that would attract their attention.
> 
> ...


I'm sure people like yourself could stomach running or kneeling, but I can not.  There is a third thing about mass shootings they intentionally target gun free zones.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We tried that, dummy.  We lock up 2 million people.  Locking people up just makes matters worse, because if they weren't an anti-social maniac when they went in, they are when they come out.
> 
> We have 100 million Americans with a police record.... we can't lock them all up.
> 
> ...




Moron...again.....you can temporarily lock up violent offenders.......but when the democrat party then releases them over and over again no matter how many violent felonies they commit, it defeats the point of having prisons.......

They do not have the same criminals we do...but they are getting them....their criminals are becoming more and more violent, and they do not respect or fear the European police anymore..........


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm saying if the government decides to kill you, they are going to fucking kill you and there probably isn't much you can do about it except run.
> 
> That isn't a good enough excuse to continue to allow crazy people to buy guns.   I don't worry the FBI is going to pull a Waco on my house, because I'm not doing anything that would attract their attention.
> 
> ...




*I am legitimately concerned that I or someone I care about might get shot because someone who had no business owning a gun was allowed to buy one.  Because every time we have a mass shooting, we find out two things.

Here....let me fix that for you....


I am legitimately concerned that I or someone I care about might get shot because  Democrats released someone who had no business being out on bail, or released from prison because of the repeat, violent crimes they commited.....*


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, yeah, guy, let's get real.  We lock up 2 million people.   The Death Penalty costs millions of dollars to put one person to death, which is why we only execute about 15 people a year... we can't afford it. I love it when rightwingers whine about how nice prison is, when they wouldn't last a week in one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nope.....as that British poster brought up, and I posted about....95% of all deaths of Indians happened before 1600....when the diseases the Europeans brought over, you know, the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese......killed them off because they didn't have the immunity to them....

And thanks for pointing out that if the Indians had been as technologically advanced as the British, French, Spanish....they would not have lost the continent to them........

The hunter gatherers lost to the industrializing European society........you dipshit...

Guns stopped the mass murder in Switzerland...unlike the rest of Europe.......Switzerland did not disarm their civilians......France and the other countries did......

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS

*That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"*
*
The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.

The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.
*
*Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. *


*Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.

While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. *

*There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.*


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 15, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> I'm sure people like yourself could stomach running or kneeling, but I can not. There is a third thing about mass shootings they intentionally target gun free zones.



Not always...  
In fact, quite the opposite. 

Columbine had security guards
So did Stoneman High School
VA Tech had a police force
Uvalde had a security force that stood around and did nothing for an hour. 
Ft. Hood was a fucking military installation, and it had TWO mass shooters.  

Fact is, Good Guy with a gun never shows up in time...


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Here....let me fix that for you....
> 
> 
> I am legitimately concerned that I or someone I care about might get shot because Democrats released someone who had no business being out on bail, or released from prison because of the repeat, violent crimes they commited.....



Except that's not really something I worry about.  

Most mass shooters have NO CRIMINAL RECORD.  As for petty criminals... um,  yeah, but fairly unlikely I'd be killed by one of them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Guns stopped the mass murder in Switzerland...unlike the rest of Europe.......Switzerland did not disarm their civilians......France and the other countries did......



Don't be absurd, dude,  There was no tactical or strategic reason FOR the Germans to invade Switzerland. 

Not because the Wehrmacht was terrified of the mighty Swiss Militia.  

Germany also didn't invade Sweden.   Had it completely surrounded, but didn't invade it because it made no tactical sense to. They also didn't invade Leichetenstein or Andorra or Spain.   (There probably would have been an advantage to invading Spain in that they could have taken Gibraltar and cut off the Allies in the Mediterrean. 

The fact is, most of the countries that gleefully turned over their Jews were Germany's allies.  And the ones they invaded were STILL happy to turn in the Jews, because no one in Europe particularly liked them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron...again.....you can temporarily lock up violent offenders.......but when the democrat party then releases them over and over again no matter how many violent felonies they commit, it defeats the point of having prisons.......
> 
> They do not have the same criminals we do...but they are getting them....their criminals are becoming more and more violent, and they do not respect or fear the European police anymore..........



You've been saying that for ten years, and it still hasn't happened. 

We tried the Prison Industrial complex...  We spend 100 billion a year on prisons, and crime doesn't go down.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not always...
> In fact, quite the opposite.
> 
> Columbine had security guards
> ...


You should know that the only armed people on a military base are the MP's personal arms have to be stored in the units arms room. In 1974 Israel had a school shooting afterward they had armed security in every school they have had 2 incidents since. In everyone of the incidents you mentioned the "security" personal failed at their job. 

Put fully vetted armed combat veterans in schools, secure all entrances and school shootings will stop. Everyone of these pieces of shits are cowards they will not confront someone who will kill them without hesitation. Of course this life saving measure would never be implemented because it stops the ultimate goal of disarming law abiding citizens.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You've been saying that for ten years, and it still hasn't happened.
> 
> We tried the Prison Industrial complex...  We spend 100 billion a year on prisons, and crime doesn't go down.


Crime was going down for years until the social justice DA's, judges, and defund the police garbage started.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not always...
> In fact, quite the opposite.
> 
> Columbine had security guards
> ...




No, columbine did not....and the police waited outside........Columbine is the event that changed police tactics...which the Texas and Uvalde schools ignored....

And you just keep showing us why allowing some staff in schools would not only deter these attacks, but would also allow a last line of defense for students......

Thank you....


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not always...
> In fact, quite the opposite.
> 
> Columbine had security guards
> ...




You mean except for these guys....and a girl...

As Hunt and other partiers had a bite to eat in the kitchen, the suspect pulled out a gun and began firing on the crowd, sending everyone fleeing, Mendez recounted. 



Mendez was shot in the head in front of his wife, who rushed to his side and believed he was dead due to the amount of blood covering his face. She then grabbed their two daughters and put them into a room deeper in the house, barricading them and other children inside. 



"She barricaded the door with the dresser. There were three other children in there, not including my two daughters. A total of five kids. She … throws them in the closet, throws clothes over them. Tells them, ‘Be quiet. Do not make a peep if you hear loud noises in this room,’" Mendez said of his wife's actions. 



As Hunt continued his alleged rampage, two other women began fighting back against the suspect and screamed for Mendez, knowing he had a concealed carry weapon, Mendez said. 



"By the glory of God or the adrenaline and just everything, just the will to live and the will to protect my family, I was able to hear those pleas, those yells for help. I heard my name. And I was able to get up," he said. 



He was able to pull out his firearm and shoot the suspect four times in the chest. 



"Detectives have determined the individual who shot Jason, and others who fought against Jason, were acting in self-defense and defense of other innocent parties," Sgt. Tommy Hale said in a press release days after the incident, KTAR reported at the time. 



http://[URL='https://www.foxnews.co...celebrates-second-amendment-thwarting-shooter[/URL]



======



Indiana mall shooting...



What we know about the armed bystander who killed the shooter at an Indiana mall | CNN

======



West Virginia woman....



https://www.wral.com/woman-credited...-apartment-complex-in-west-virginia/20306891/

======



Shotgun attacker at Church service....



Firearms instructor took out gunman at Texas church service

=====



Southerland Springs Church shooting .....



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-texas-church-shooter-the-nra-found-its-hero/


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You've been saying that for ten years, and it still hasn't happened.
> 
> We tried the Prison Industrial complex...  We spend 100 billion a year on prisons, and crime doesn't go down.




And it is getting worse.....each year, you dumb ass........


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Don't be absurd, dude,  There was no tactical or strategic reason FOR the Germans to invade Switzerland.
> 
> Not because the Wehrmacht was terrified of the mighty Swiss Militia.
> 
> ...




Moron, there was no tactical reason to bomb Britain, yet he did it............Hitler wanted the land in Russia.....

And again, they kept him from invading because they had lots and lots of guns....you dumb ass....

15 million people handed over for slaughter....you keep making my point, you doofus.....they disarmed their people, and that allowed the Germans to invade and murder at will...with no resistance.......you idiot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 16, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> You should know that the only armed people on a military base are the MP's personal arms have to be stored in the units arms room. In 1974 Israel had a school shooting afterward they had armed security in every school they have had 2 incidents since. In everyone of the incidents you mentioned the "security" personal failed at their job.
> 
> Put fully vetted armed combat veterans in schools, secure all entrances and school shootings will stop. Everyone of these pieces of shits are cowards they will not confront someone who will kill them without hesitation. Of course this life saving measure would never be implemented because it stops the ultimate goal of disarming law abiding citizens.



That's kind of fucking retarded. 

So let's review. 

1) I don't particularly want to live like a Zionist, in a racist police state.  I'm not sure why you do. 
2) The reason why security fails is that frankly, the bad guy with a gun has a plan while security is usually caught off guard. 
3) The problem with arming people in the schools would be inevitably, someone is going to overreact to a disturbed child... like this. 



Mind you, these are trained police officers.   And you are going to put amateurs with guns in schools? I'm sure that's going to turn out well.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 16, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And it is getting worse.....each year, you dumb ass........



Yes, the Prison-Industrial Complex is the problem. You lock someone up (usually a person of color because there are different rules for white people) for a petty crime like, oh, gun possession.  You put him in a prison with even more dangerous people, he becomes violent and anti-social.  Then you let him out (because you don't have enough jail cells to hold him indefinitely) and he has no job prospects (because he has a record) and you scratch your big monkey cranium wondering why he commits more crimes.  



2aguy said:


> Moron, there was no tactical reason to bomb Britain, yet he did it............Hitler wanted the land in Russia.....



Actually, there was an excellent reason to bomb the UK. First, they intended to invade it, in operation Sea Lion in 1940.   When that proved unfeasible, continuing to attack the UK was important because their Italian Allies were fighting the UK in North Africa. 




2aguy said:


> And again, they kept him from invading because they had lots and lots of guns....you dumb ass....
> 
> 15 million people handed over for slaughter....you keep making my point, you doofus.....they disarmed their people, and that allowed the Germans to invade and murder at will...with no resistance.......you idiot.



No, what kept them from Invading Switzerland was that there was no tactical value in doing so. Neutral Switzerland gave Germany access to international banking after the rest of the world had cut them off with embargos.  

Fifteen million people handed over because guns don't do a bit of good when people with tanks and bombers want to kill you. 

So let's imagine you are a Jewish Ammosexual in 1940, and the SS has come over to introduce you an exciting new career as a lampshade.  So you pull out your gun and maybe take one or two of them out before they murder you, and the next Day, your picture is in all the propaganda about "Murderous Jews... we told you so!!!"


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> That's kind of fucking retarded.
> 
> So let's review.
> 
> ...


What the fuck does your obvious antisemitic hatred have to do with protecting school children.  The Jews have to live the way they do because they are surrounded by countries that want to destroy them. They protect their children with armed guards and it works.  

 Did you miss the part about fully vetted and combat veterans are not amateurs. I worked on computers in the Army for 6 years and I still trained with several different weapons more than most police do their entire career. I know, I have law enforcement officers in my family.  

Why are "disturbed" children going to a normal school ?

Your either one of the morons who believe disarming law abiding citizens will keep firearms out of the hands of people with criminal intent or you know the truth that this whole anti-2nd amendment movement is about taking away firearms from the citizenry.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 16, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> What the fuck does your obvious antisemitic hatred have to do with protecting school children. The Jews have to live the way they do because they are surrounded by countries that want to destroy them. They protect their children with armed guards and it works.



If I lived in a place surrounded by people who wanted to kill me (for good reason, because the Zionists stole their land), I would probably want to live somewhere else.  I wouldn't want to live in an apartheid police state.  



ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Did you miss the part about fully vetted and combat veterans are not amateurs. I worked on computers in the Army for 6 years and I still trained with several different weapons more than most police do their entire career. I know, I have law enforcement officers in my family.



Pushed papers in the army for 11 years.. and the last thing I'd want to do for a living is walk around a high school with a loaded weapon.  Funny thing, being a veteran isn't like being a saint.  I know a lot of guys I served with I wouldn't want anywhere near kids with a loaded weapon. 




ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Why are "disturbed" children going to a normal school ?



Because their parents would scream bloody murder if you didn't let them...  



ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Your either one of the morons who believe disarming law abiding citizens will keep firearms out of the hands of people with criminal intent or you know the truth that this whole anti-2nd amendment movement is about taking away firearms from the citizenry.



I'm a realist.  No, gun bans won't stop professional criminals.  They WILL stop the vast majority of gun deaths, which are a combination of suicides, domestic violence and accidents.  Then the cops will have the resources to concentrate on the criminals.  

The Europeans and  Japanese have already figured this out.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> If I lived in a place surrounded by people who wanted to kill me (for good reason, because the Zionists stole their land), I would probably want to live somewhere else.  I wouldn't want to live in an apartheid police state.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Jews had been in that area long before the Muslims conquered the region  so they didn't steal the land from anyone. 

You seem to keep missing the part about fully vetted I guaranty you would have enough Veterans to cover every school in the nation. I would do the shit for free if it meant keeping my grandchildren safe. Like I said it's not about keep kids safe it's about taking away guns from law abiding citizens. 

I'm not giving away my constitutional right for yours or anyone else's false sense of security.  I believe instead of the police putting their lives on the line to take away guns it should be you anti-2nd loons stacking up to kick in doors. By the way there are a thousand different ways to kill yourself.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Sep 16, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And you just keep showing us why allowing some staff in schools would not only deter these attacks, but would also allow a last line of defense for students......Thank you....


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 16, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> The Jews had been in that area long before the Muslims conquered the region so they didn't steal the land from anyone.



The Jews had been driven out by the Romans in the Second Century, who just got fed up dealing with their shit.   They  hadn't lived there in a very long time, most of them didn't speak Hebrew, they spoke Yiddish (A corrupted German.)  

You take a look at any prominent leader of the Zionist Entity, and you are going to find someone who either came from Europe OR their parents did.   The Palestinians are indigenous, the European Jews are the invaders. 



ThunderKiss1965 said:


> You seem to keep missing the part about fully vetted I guaranty you would have enough Veterans to cover every school in the nation. I would do the shit for free if it meant keeping my grandchildren safe. Like I said it's not about keep kids safe it's about taking away guns from law abiding citizens.



No, I just reject it as silly.  If we had "full vetting" of gun purchases, we wouldn't have this situation to start with.  



ThunderKiss1965 said:


> I'm not giving away my constitutional right for yours or anyone else's false sense of security. I believe instead of the police putting their lives on the line to take away guns it should be you anti-2nd loons stacking up to kick in doors. By the way there are a thousand different ways to kill yourself.



I am tired of living with gun toting maniacs because you are compensating for your shortcomings. 

If you have a way to keep guns out of the hands of crazy people and still let you have them (even though I think most Ammosexuals are a few tacos short of a combination platter), I'd be happy to hear it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 16, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> View attachment 696958


Yes, except most of the time, she'd be dealing with another disturbed student.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The Jews had been driven out by the Romans in the Second Century, who just got fed up dealing with their shit.   They  hadn't lived there in a very long time, most of them didn't speak Hebrew, they spoke Yiddish (A corrupted German.)
> 
> You take a look at any prominent leader of the Zionist Entity, and you are going to find someone who either came from Europe OR their parents did.   The Palestinians are indigenous, the European Jews are the invaders.
> 
> ...




Moron...

350 million Americans

600 million guns.

Over 21.5 million Americans can now legally carry guns in public for self defense....

Normal Americans use their guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, mass public shootings, beatings and stabbings....or 1.5 million times a year if you use the Department of Justice research...

Number of mass public shootings in 2021

*6*

Number of people killed in total?

*43*

Deer kill 200 people a year

Ladders kill 300 people a year

Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people a year.....

The truth, facts, reality....and numbers....do not support your irrational, emotional beliefs....


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron...
> 
> 350 million Americans
> 
> 600 million guns.


Moron, 

43,000 gun deaths.
70,000 gun injuries
400,000 gun crimes
213 Billion in economic losses every year due to Gun Violence
Militarized Police who are armed like soldiers because they never know if the next traffic stop is going to come out shooting. 
Building our whole society around fear of gun nuts, including active shooter drills, panic rooms, security doors at our workplaces, armed guards everywhere.  

Whole communities where people are afraid to leave the house for fear of being shot. 

This is what you Ammosexuals have brought us, and frankly, it kind of sucks.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Moron,
> 
> 43,000 gun deaths.
> 70,000 gun injuries
> ...




Joe  lies...it is what he does......he doesn't want to point out that the majority of gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides....that ruins his argument.  He doesn't want to point out that in 2019 there were 10,258 actual gun murders...but the victims of those murders, 70-80% were criminals, engaged in the lifestyle of criminals....



That means using the 70% rate, 3,077 gun murders of innocent people in the U.S......a country of over 350,000,000 people........car accidents in 2018 from the CDC were 39,404.....



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Of the 3,077 innocent gun murder victims in a country of over 330 million people, joe doesn't want you to know that the majority of those victims were the friends and family of criminals...caught in the crossfire of their criminal activity and revenge shootings...



That ruins his argument...........



It also ruins his argument when you look at the fact that as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 27 years,  the gun crime rate went down 75%.....the gun murder rate went down 49%, and the gun crime rate went down 72%.....this means that guns do not increase gun crime, or gun murder.....which ruins his entire argument......



Also, Americans with legal guns save lives....lots of lives....according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, armed, law abiding Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murders.......if you don't like their research, you can look at the Department of Justice research that shows the number of defensive gun uses at 1.5 million times a year...



1.1 million times a year guns are used to save lives from rape, robbery and murder......



That far outnumbers the innocent lives lost to criminals with illegal guns...guns they already can't buy, own or carry, but get anyway because they are criminals...



*that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—*
*
Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......


So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
*
*So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.*

Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns



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It also ruins his argument when you look at the fact that as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 27 years,  the gun crime rate went down 75%.....the gun murder rate went down 49%, and the gun crime rate went down 72%.....this means that guns do not increase gun crime, or gun murder.....which ruins his entire argument......



Also, Americans with legal guns save lives....lots of lives....according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, armed, law abiding Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murders.......if you don't like their research, you can look at the Department of Justice research that shows the number of defensive gun uses at 1.5 million times a year...



1.1 million times a year guns are used to save lives from rape, robbery and murder......



That far outnumbers the innocent lives lost to criminals with illegal guns...guns they already can't buy, own or carry, but get anyway because they are criminals...



A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

600 million guns in private hands......over 19.4 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........

American use those legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...

Gun deaths...the truth....

2019...

Gun murder...10,235

Gun accidents...486

Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.


Gun suicides... 23,491...


----------



## Blues Man (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Moron,
> 
> 43,000 gun deaths.
> 70,000 gun injuries
> ...


you're the only one I know that lives in fear of being shot even though you you only have .005% chance of being murdered by a person with a gun


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Moron,
> 
> 43,000 gun deaths.
> 70,000 gun injuries
> ...




*The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974. *


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

Millions and millions of new guns in the hands of more and more Americans....and the rate of gun murder and suicide are lower than they were in 1974....

Also.....

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
======*




This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

*What changed in 2015?*

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Moron,
> 
> 43,000 gun deaths.
> 70,000 gun injuries
> ...




Let me fix this for you and make it accurate...

*Whole communities where people are afraid to leave the house for fear of being shot.


Whole communities, in democrat party controlled cities where the democrat party prosecutors, judges and politicans attack the police to the point they refuse to do their jobs, quit or retire in massive numbers, which allows violent criminals to go wild, and where democrat party prosecutors, judges and politicians release violent, known, repeat gun felons over and over again, who are the actual individuals doing all of the shooting and killing...........where people are afraid to leave the house for fear of being shot.


There.....fixed that for you.....*


----------



## Hollie (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Moron,
> 
> 43,000 gun deaths.
> 70,000 gun injuries
> ...



Apparently by accident, you are correct about ''Whole communities where people are afraid to leave the house for fear of being shot.''

Not surprisingly, those communities you referenced are so often communities in large, Democrat run cities where criminals have no real fear of consequences for their crimes.

I certainly think it's time for you and those like you to start flailing your Pom Poms for an Assault Machete Ban. 









						Machete attack exposes the cruelty of ‘criminal-justice reformers’
					

And an innocent man — black, incidentally, and still hard-working at 82 — pays the price.




					nypost.com


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Joe lies...it is what he does......he doesn't want to point out that the majority of gun deaths in the U.S. are suicides....that ruins his argument. He doesn't want to point out that in 2019 there were 10,258 actual gun murders...but the victims of those murders, 70-80% were criminals, engaged in the lifestyle of criminals....



Actually, there were 14,500 in 2019.  There were 20,000 in 2020.  

And, yes, suicides are a big deal, if it's someone you care about.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Apparently by accident, you are correct about ''Whole communities where people are afraid to leave the house for fear of being shot.''
> 
> Not surprisingly, those communities you referenced are so often communities in large, Democrat run cities where criminals have no real fear of consequences for their crimes.
> 
> I certainly think it's time for you and those like you to start flailing your Pom Poms for an Assault Machete Ban.



Nobody anywhere should be afraid of leaving her house.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Nobody anywhere should be afraid of leaving her house.


I'm certainly not afraid, but then, I don't live in a large, democrat run city where criminals are a privileged class.

Just think how much fun this will be in another Democrat Hell Hole.









						Illinois law enforcement revolts against new law creating cashless bail
					

Republican lawmakers, law enforcement officers and states' attorneys oppose law taking effect Jan. 1.




					justthenews.com
				




Gov. J.B. Pritzker signed the bill into law last year. It will abolish cash bail on Jan. 1, making Illinois the first state in the country to do so. The bill also includes a provision that will allow most people charged with crimes, including some violent felonies, to be released without posting bail.




How great is that? Some violent felonies will carry a ''get out of jail free'' card. Now, if I lived in the Democrat paradise of Illinous, I certainly would be afraid of leaving my house.



Lets agree. Leftists make no connection between their policies and subsequent effects.









						America’s Mass Migration Intensifies As ‘Leftugees’ Flee Blue States And Counties For Red
					

A recent study by U-Haul reported that the top five states to see the greatest influx of new residents include the Republican-led states of Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Ohio and Arizona.




					www.forbes.com
				




America is on the move like never before. Some would say at a tectonic level and for many the driver is as much political as it is economic. The top five states seeing a mass exodus are all Democrat-controlled. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, California, New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Illinois lost a combined 4 million residents between 2010 and 2019.  Conversely, a recent study by U-Haul reported that the top five states to see the greatest influx of new residents include the Republican-led states of Florida, Texas, Tennessee, Ohio and Arizona.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, there were 14,500 in 2019.  There were 20,000 in 2020.
> 
> And, yes, suicides are a big deal, if it's someone you care about.




Yes.....in 2015 the democrat party began it's war on the police, and in reaction, the police stopped pro active police work, and they also began to release violent criminals over and over again....

Can you explain why they keep releasing the most violent criminals?  Normal people would like to know...

*A three-time felon on bail for one of Illinois’ most serious gun crimes opened fire on a Chicago family’s birthday celebration, shooting a 12-year-old boy in the head this week, prosecutors said. Incredibly, a Cook County judge made Isaiah Renteria pay just $1,000 to get out of jail on a Class X armed habitual criminal charge in November and did not require him to go on to electronic monitoring.*

*On Friday, Renteria became the 38th person accused of killing or shooting—or attempting to kill or shoot—someone in Chicago while awaiting trial for a felony this year. The alleged crimes involved at least 76 victims, 18 of whom died.*









						#38: Gunman shot 12-year-old boy in the head while on $1,000 bail for one of Illinois' most serious gun crimes
					

A three-time felon who was on bail for one of Illinois' most serious gun crimes opened fire on a Chicago family's birthday celebration, shooting a 12-year-old boy in the head this week, prosecutors said.




					cwbchicago.com
				




Related 2022 Stories​#1: Man who tried to shoot 3 outside a North Side restaurant on New Year’s Day had a pending felony case, prosecutors say (January 6, 2022)

#2: Felon awaiting trial for 4 sexual assault cases escaped from electronic monitoring and tried to kill investigators who tracked him down, prosecutors say (January 15, 2022)

#3: With felony gun case pending, man shot passerby during “exchange of gunfire,” prosecutors say (January 23, 2022)

#4: Seven-time felon on electronic monitoring for his 4th gun case tried to shoot and kill his girlfriend’s father, prosecutors say (January 26, 2022)

#5: Teen on electronic monitoring for TWO gun cases carjacked a Lyft driver, then shot a 15-year-old at point-blank range, prosecutors say (February 10, 2022)

#6: Man killed nursing student months after going AWOL from felony DUI case, prosecutors say (February 20, 2022)

#7: Man shot and killed his own brother while on bail for a felony gun case, prosecutors say (February 22, 2022)

#8: Beloved Hyde Park bartender was killed by a robber who has 3 pending felony cases, prosecutors said (March 7, 2022)

#9: Man involved in New Year’s shoot-out that left one dead was on bail for his 3rd gun felony, prosecutors say (March 8, 2022)

#10: An 11-time convicted felon shot a 3-year-old and tried to kill the boy’s mother while on felony bail, prosecutors say (March 11, 2022)

#11: Man allegedly stabbed another to death 4 days after getting released on felony bail (March 29, 2022)

#12: He opened fire on his ex’s house, killing a man, prosecutors say. But he was supposed to be home 24/7 for a pending felony gun case. (March 29, 2022)

#13: Man shot a woman, fired toward 4 others, while on bond for being a felon in possession of a firearm, prosecutors say (April 7, 2022)

#14: Man killed his parents in an Uptown senior center while on bond for federal armed robbery and gun charges, prosecutors say (April 14. 2022)

#15: Four-time felon opened fire on a carload of victims, injuring 2 while on bond for felony gun case, prosecutors say (April 20, 2022)

#16: Man shot his ex this month and her boyfriend last month, prosecutors say. He was on felony bail. (April 24, 2022)

#17: Man tried to kill 2 cable TV installers over a missing dog, prosecutors say. He was on bail at the time. (April 30, 2022)

#18: Man escaped from electronic monitoring and ran over a cop in a stolen car while fleeing a murder scene, prosecutors say (May 19, 2022)

#19: A two-time felon circled a West Side neighborhood for 15 minutes looking for someone to kill in a revenge murder, prosecutors say. He was on bond for a gun case at the time. (May 21, 2022)

#20: Alleged mass shooter had a felony gun case pending when he killed 2, wounded 7 near Magnificent Mile, records show (May 22, 2022)

#21: Five months after escaping from electronic monitoring, he helped shoot up a carload of people, injuring 2, prosecutors say (May 29, 2022)

#22: Man accused of setting ‘Walking Man’ on fire has been AWOL from 2 felony cases for 15 months, court records show (May 30, 2022)

#23: Two weeks after being charged with having a stolen rifle in a hijacked car, he allegedly shot a man with a rifle after getting out of a hijacked car (June 11, 2022)

#24: Gunman left a woman paralyzed in River North just 4 weeks after officials sent his felony gun case to a “peace circle,” prosecutors say (June 13, 2022)

#25: Teen acted as murderer’s driver while awaiting trial for carjacking, stolen car cases: prosecutors say (July 6, 2022)

#26: Man shot victim 5 times, days after being charged in a felony narcotics case, prosecutors say (July 7, 2022)

#27: Concealed carry holder shot man who opened fire on his car at McDonald’s, prosecutors say (July 14, 2022)

#28: Terrorism, attempted murder charges filed against man who allegedly detonated bomb on Pink Line in May (August 8, 2022)

#29: Three-time felon shot robbery victim while on bail for felony gun case, prosecutors say (August 23, 2022)

#30: Concealed carry holder shoots 7-time felon who tried to kill him, prosecutors say. That man was on bail for a felony gun case. (August 25, 2022)

#31: Anti-violence worker, who’s also a 9-time felon, shot himself in the butt at a Bucktown gas station while on felony bail, prosecutors say (August 25, 2022)

#32: Killer shot motorcyclist 16 times while awaiting trial for a felony gun case, prosecutors say (September 1, 2022)

#33: Man killed his half-sister’s boyfriend while on electronic monitoring for shooting someone else, prosecutors say (September 5, 2022)

#34: Two months after posting bail for a felony gun case, he participated in a botched robbery that left the victim dead, prosecutors say (September 8, 2022)

#35: One week after being released on felony gun charge, man shot and killed rival gang member in random attack, prosecutors say (September 8, 2022)

#36: Driver exchanged shots with gunman in another car while on felony bail, prosecutors say (September 10, 2022)

#37: Man shot woman dead because he didn’t want her at a block party—while he was supposed to be home on electronic monitoring for 3 felonies, prosecutors say (September 15, 2022)

Related 2021 Stories

Related 2020 Stories

Related 2019 Stories


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, there were 14,500 in 2019.  There were 20,000 in 2020.
> 
> And, yes, suicides are a big deal, if it's someone you care about.




Yes....suicides are a big deal, but they are not a gun problem.  Just ask the people of Japan, and South Korea....where only criminals and cops can have guns, yet they commit suicide at rates higher than ours...


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Gov. J.B. Pritzker signed the bill into law last year. It will abolish cash bail on Jan. 1, making Illinois the first state in the country to do so. The bill also includes a provision that will allow most people charged with crimes, including some violent felonies, to be released without posting bail.
> 
> How great is that? Some violent felonies will carry a ''get out of jail free'' card. Now, if I lived in the Democrat paradise of Illinous, I certainly would be afraid of leaving my house.
> 
> Lets agree. Leftists make no connection between their policies and subsequent effects.



Uh, here's the thing.  None of these people have been convicted of anything.   If you are requiring a bail for a crime, you are essentially penalizing poverty, as the affluent criminals will be able to post bail and the non-affluent will not.  

Pre-trial incarceration should ONLY be for people who are an immediate danger to someone else, and that is what the current law calls for. If you are going to lock someone up before you've secured a conviction, you should be able to prove they are actually dangerous. 

Innocent until proven guilty?  What a crazy idea?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yes.....in 2015 the democrat party began it's war on the police, and in reaction, the police stopped pro active police work, and they also began to release violent criminals over and over again....
> 
> Can you explain why they keep releasing the most violent criminals? Normal people would like to know...
> 
> ...



Sounds like we have a problem in determining who to lock up... gee.  Maybe instead of making bail a for profit industry, we can actually make determinations about who is actually dangerous and who isn't.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Sounds like we have a problem in determining who to lock up... gee.  Maybe instead of making bail a for profit industry, we can actually make determinations about who is actually dangerous and who isn't.




We already can, you asshat....the democrats just don't care.....they just release the most violent criminals no matter how many felonies they have......you explain that....


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 17, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> That's because you loons care about the criminals more than the victims and made it so that prison is no longer a deterrent. Commit a gun crime with a gun and get 20 years hard labor, murder someone get an appeal, lose and a year later you are put to death.
> 
> I don't give a fuck what foreigners say. Every country you anti-2nd loons love to crow about have never had a Constitutional right to own firearms and in Europe it shows. The German's have run roughshod over the area twice. The Chinese and Soviets are another shiny example of gun control that ended in the murder of millions. History, learn and remember or live that shit over and over.


This is ignorant and wrong.

Civilian possession of firearms in no manner ‘prevents’ government acts of violence.









						The Hitler gun control lie
					

Gun rights activists who cite the dictator as a reason against gun control have their history dangerously wrong




					www.salon.com


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 17, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> So what your saying is that the citizenry should just let the Government kill as many as they want ?


Of course not – don’t be ridiculous.

The fact is that armed civilians are no match for a given government’s modern military.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is ignorant and wrong.
> 
> Civilian possession of firearms in no manner ‘prevents’ government acts of violence.
> 
> ...




IN the 1920s Germany banned and confiscated guns.....this allowed the socialists in the 1930s to beat, or murder anyone who spoke out against them...which allowed them to grow and eventually take power....

When your neighbor is beaten in the middle of a public street by a democrat party brown shirt......I mean a nazi party brown shirt....and the police just stand by, and you don't have a gun to stop it, and neither does the victim or their family....you learn to keep your mouth shut and your head down.

Notice.....when the democrat party ordered their shock troops, BLM and Antifa to loot, burn and murder in democrat party controlled cities.....which they did for 7 months to win the election.....they didn't attack the suburbs...they stayed in the democrat party controlled cities.   Why?  Because they have extreme gun control in those cities, and their victims couldn't defend themselves or their businesses when the democrats told the police to stand down and do nothing......

Guns force political parties to stay peaceful......when you take guns away from people, the ability to use violence against your political enemies becomes real.....the first gun control laws in American cities was used to suppress opposition to the democrat party....

The strange birth of NY’s gun laws

Problem was the gangs worked for Tammany. The Democratic machine used them as_shtarkers_ (sluggers), enforcing discipline at the polls and intimidating the opposition. Gang leaders like Monk Eastman were even employed as informal “sheriffs,” keeping their turf under Tammany control.

The Tammany Tiger needed to rein in the gangs without completely crippling them. Enter Big Tim with the perfect solution: Ostensibly disarm the gangs — and ordinary citizens, too — while still keeping them on the streets.

In fact, he gave the game away during the debate on the bill, which flew through Albany: “I want to make it so the young thugs in my district will get three years for carrying dangerous weapons instead of getting a sentence in the electric chair a year from now.”

*Sullivan knew the gangs would flout the law, but appearances were more important than results. *

Young toughs took to sewing the pockets of their coats shut, so that cops couldn’t plant firearms on them, and many gangsters stashed their weapons inside their girlfriends’ “bird cages” — wire-mesh fashion contraptions around which women would wind their hair.

----Ordinary citizens, on the other hand, were disarmed, which solved another problem:
*
Gangsters had been bitterly complaining to Tammany that their victims sometimes shot back at them.*

So gang violence didn’t drop under the Sullivan Act — and really took off after the passage of Prohibition in 1920. Spectacular gangland rubouts — like the 1932 machine-gunning of “Mad Dog” Coll in a drugstore phone booth on 23rd Street — became the norm.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> That isn't a good enough excuse to continue to allow crazy people to buy guns.


It isn’t an ‘excuse’ at all – it’s ignorant nonsense.

The notion that possessing firearms to ‘deter government tyranny’ is ‘justification’ for indeed possess firearms is ridiculous and wrong.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> This is ignorant and wrong.
> 
> Civilian possession of firearms in no manner ‘prevents’ government acts of violence.
> 
> ...




Where is the lie......you dumb ass...from your very article, you idiot....

*the German legislature in 1919 passed a law that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation.
------

"The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition,”
------
The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns,*









						The Hitler gun control lie
					

Gun rights activists who cite the dictator as a reason against gun control have their history dangerously wrong




					www.salon.com
				




*The idiot in the article points out the Warsaw Gheto.....failing to mention that the Jews didn't have guns to fight back......you are an idiot...

What actually happened...*

*The Warsaw Ghetto uprising......had they actually been as well armed as the Swiss, had all the peoples in Europe been as well armed as the Swiss, the Germans could never have held the territory they captured......that is what armed citizens do...they discourage aggression...

There were 13,000 Jews killed in the uprising...unarmed......if those 13,000 had rifles, the outcome would have been a lot worse for the Germans.....and had that taken place in every country......World War 2 would have been very different...

A German force was tiny compared to 50,000 Jews.....and yet because they were unarmed...that tiny German force was able to destroy them...

31 German officers, and 1,262 German soldiers.....

Now imagine if those Jews in Warsaw had rifles and pistols......*

By his own words, Stroop reported that after he took command on 19 April 1943 the forces at his disposal totaled 31 officers and 1,262 men:[51]

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising - Wikipedia


Marek Edelman, who was the only surviving uprising commander from the left-wing ŻOB, stated that the ŻOB had 220 fighters and each was armed with a handgun, grenades, and Molotov cocktails. His organization had three rifles in each area, as well as two land mines and one submachine gun.[20][21][22][23] Due to its socialist leanings, the Soviets promoted the actions of ŻOB as the dominant or only party in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, a view often adopted by secondary sources in the West.[18]

----

*Death toll[edit]*



Stroop Report original caption: "Bandits jump to escape capture." A man leaps to his death from the top story window of an apartment block. Taken at 23 and 25 Niska Street[67]



Plaque commemorating Home Armysoldiers - Eugeniusz Morawski ps. "Młodek" and Józef Wilk ps. "Orlik" killed during the Ghetto Action on the wall Church of St. John of God at ul. Bonifraterska 12 in Warsaw.
13,000 Jews were killed in the ghetto during the uprising (some 6,000 among them were burnt alive or died from smoke inhalation). Of the remaining 50,000 residents, most were captured and shipped to concentration and extermination camps, in particular to Treblinka.

Jürgen Stroop's internal SS daily report for Friedrich Krüger, written on 16 May 1943, stated:

180 Jews, bandits and sub-humans, were destroyed. The former Jewish quarter of Warsaw is no longer in existence. The large-scale action was terminated at 20:15 hours by blowing up the Warsaw Synagogue. ... Total number of Jews dealt with 56,065, including both Jews caught and Jews whose extermination can be proved. ... Apart from 8 buildings (police barracks, hospital, and accommodations for housing working-parties) the former Ghetto is completely destroyed. Only the dividing walls are left standing where no explosions were carried out.[42]

According to the casualty lists in Stroop's report, German forces suffered a total of 110 casualties – 17 dead (of whom 16 were killed in action) and 93 injured – of whom 101 are listed by name, including over 60 members of the Waffen-SS. These figures did not include Jewish collaborators, but did include the "Trawniki men" and Polish police under his command. The real number of German losses, however, may be well higher (the Germans suffered about 300 casualties by Edelman's estimate). For propaganda purposes, the official announcement claimed the German casualties to be only a few wounded, while propaganda bulletins of the Polish Underground Stateann


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 17, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> I'm sure people like yourself could stomach running or kneeling, but I can not.  There is a third thing about mass shootings they intentionally target gun free zones.


Another lie.

There is no evidence that mass shooters intentionally seek out ‘gun free zones’ to commit their crimes.









						No, mass shooters do not target "gun free zones"
					

President Trump keeps parroting a longtime lie from the NRA.




					www.motherjones.com


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 17, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The problem with arming people in the schools would be inevitably, someone is going to overreact to a disturbed child.


True.

In fact, arming teachers at all is a bad idea and moronic.

No matter how much ‘training’ a teacher might receive, he or she will be in no way prepared to confront an armed criminal in an active shooter situation.

There are trained LEOs incapable of effectively addressing such an event.

Arming teachers will only result in more children being killed, shot by inexperienced, incompetent armed teachers.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> It isn’t an ‘excuse’ at all – it’s ignorant nonsense.
> 
> The notion that possessing firearms to ‘deter government tyranny’ is ‘justification’ for indeed possess firearms is ridiculous and wrong.


It’s the First Amendment that keeps us free from government tyranny, not the Second; the right of the people to petition the government for redress of grievances through the political and judicial process.

That’s why conservatives attack our democrat institutions and seek to destroy America’s democracy.

The government neither fears armed civilians nor is intimidated by armed civilians.

To attempt to ‘justify’ armed civilians as a ‘deterrent’ to government tyranny is ignorant, naïve, and wrong.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Another lie.
> 
> There is no evidence that mass shooters intentionally seek out ‘gun free zones’ to commit their crimes.
> 
> ...


Mother Jones ?


----------



## ThunderKiss1965 (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Of course not – don’t be ridiculous.
> 
> The fact is that armed civilians are no match for a given government’s modern military.


Vietnam and Afghanistan are just a couple of the countries that survived a war with several different countries that where technologically superior. It's called asymmetric warfare. There is the posse comitatus act that prohibits the US military from enforcing domestic policy which leaves the National Guard and local police. You loons will be asking these people to arrest and possible kill their friends family and neighbors.    I'm going to ignore your other responses to my posts on this subject because I've explained this several times and you morons keep spewing the same shit everytime. You do not know what the fuck your talking about.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Another lie.
> 
> There is no evidence that mass shooters intentionally seek out ‘gun free zones’ to commit their crimes.
> 
> ...




And that is a lie.......






-----
*
The El Paso environmentalist/socialist/racist shooter also discussed doing an attack in a place where others wouldn’t be able to stop the attack:*



> “Remember: it is not cowardly to pick low hanging fruit. AKA Don’t attack heavily guarded areas to fulfill your super soldier COD fantasy. Attack low security targets. Even though you might out gun a security guard or police man, they likely beat you in armor, training and numbers. Do not throw away your life on an unnecessarily dangerous target. If a target seems too hot, live to fight another day.”





			One moment, please...
		

==============

Mass Shootings in Gun-Free Zones - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics

According to ABC News, El Paso law enforcement officials advise that, moments before his killing rampage, the shooter cased the Walmart “looking for Mexicans.” While that may be so, it is nevertheless true that, consistent with his “manifesto,” his recon was also calculated to make sure that he would be attacking in a low-security area. In that regard, the Walmart store had no armed security guard, no police presence, and was located in a shopping mall that was a self-proclaimed “gun-free zone.”
Similarly, in the Dayton, Ohio, mass shooting on Sunday, which immediately followed the El Paso murders, the victims were attacked as they exited a nightspot that was a gun-free zone. 
And, in the Garlic Festival shootings in Gilroy, California last week, the victims were trapped inside a fenced area after going through metal detectors to make sure that they were disarmed. The shooter avoided the metal detectors by cutting through the fence and then attacking a victim pool that the Gilroy authorities had rendered incapable of defending themselves.
So it is that these most recent massacres share the one common element of almost all mass casualty shootings: gun-free zones.In addition to the El Paso shooter’s “manifesto,” there is abundant anecdotal evidence that mass casualty shooters prefer gun-free zones. For example, in 2016, Dearborn Heights, Michigan, ISIS supporter Khalil Abu Rayyan had an online discussion with an undercover FBI agent in which he discussed his plan for a “martyrdom operation” by attacking a Detroit church. He told the agent that this would be an easy target because “people are not allowed to carry guns in church.” Fortunately, Abu Rayyan was arrested before he could achieve martyrdom.
Similarly, in 2015, Elliot Rodger murdered six people in a Santa Barbara, California, gun-free zone. In his 141-page “manifesto,” he explained that in planning his attack he had decided against launching it in other locations where someone with a gun might be present to cut short his killing spree.
In the 2012 Aurora, Colorado, theater massacre, the killer’s diary showed that he had decided against attacking an airport because of its “substantial security.” And, out of the seven movie theaters within 20 minutes of the shooter’s home, he chose the only one that had posted signs declaring it to be a gun-free zone.
Given this record, anyone concerned with eliminating — or at least substantially reducing — mass public shootings must ask whether or not gun-free zones pose a danger to the public by attracting killers who prefer an unarmed victim pool and should give serious consideration to the following propositions:



3/3-/18

Orlando, Pulse Night club shooter wanted to attack Disney land

Pulse shooter's initial target was Disney site, prosecutors say


Prosecutors say the Orlando nightclub shooter intended to attack Disney World’s shopping and entertainment complex by hiding a gun in a stroller but became spooked by police and chose the gay club as his target.
3/5/18
https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/profile-of-a-school-shooter/

The second thing: The shooter reveals that he thought seriously about whether his target would be a “gun free zone.” I mention this not to endorse any particular policy, but to make it clear that it is by no means rare for those who would do harm to first scope out their destinations and to make sure that they won’t encounter much resistance. The shooter openly explains that he chose the local elementary school, rather than the school he was really angry with (his own), because it lacked an armed guard. He also admits to having researched how long it took cops to respond in the area (15 minutes), and how long it would be before SWAT was on site (45 minutes). This echoes comments made by the shooter at Isla Vista, who considered carrying out his attack on Halloween, but decided against it because there’d be “too many cops walking around during an event like Halloween, and cops are the only ones who can hinder my plans.”

*The actual story linked above...*



> “I HAVE TO BEAT **** **** . .” he wrote nine days before the Sept. 28, 2016, shooting in a misspelled reference to the Sandy Hook killer,**** ****. “Atleast 40.”
> 
> *Two days later, he debated whether he should attack his middle school, from which he’d been expelled, or his elementary school, just up the road.
> 
> ...



=========


The Colorado theater shooter evidence...

Did Colorado shooter single out Cinemark theater because it banned guns?

Yet, neither explanation is right. Instead, out of all the movie theaters within 20 minutes of his apartment showing the new Batman movie that night, it was the only one where guns were banned. In Colorado, individuals with permits can carry concealed handgun in most malls, stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. But private businesses can determine whether permit holders can carry guns on their private property.
Most movie theaters allow permit holders carrying guns. But the Cinemark movie theater was the only one with a sign posted at the theater’s entrance.
A simple web search and some telephone calls reveal how easily one can find out how Cinemark compared to other movie theaters. According to mapquest.com and movies.com, there were seven movie theaters showing "The Dark Knight Rises" on July 20th within 20 minutes of the killer’s apartment at 1690 Paris St, Aurora, Colorado. At 4 miles and an 8-minute car ride, the Cinemark’s Century Theater wasn't the closest. Another theater was only 1.2 miles (3 minutes) away.
There was also a theater just slightly further away, 10 minutes. It is the "home of Colorado's largest auditorium," according to their movie hotline greeting message. The potentially huge audience ought to have been attractive to someone trying to kill as many people as possible. Four other theaters were 18 minutes, two at 19 minutes, and 20 minutes away. But all of those theaters allowed permitted concealed handguns.
So why would a mass shooter pick a place that bans guns? The answer should be obvious, though it apparently is not clear to the media – disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks


FBI: Dearborn Heights ISIS supporter planned to attack Detroit church

In conversation's between Abu-Rayyan and the undercover agent, Abu-Rayyan described his desire to commit a martyrdom operation.

The complaint filed in federal court doesn’t specify which Detroit church he was allegedly planning to attack, only that it was close and could seat 6,000 members.

The complaint quotes Abu-Rayyan saying:

_*“It's easy, and a lot of people go there. Plus people are not allowed to carry guns in church. Plus it would make the news. Everybody would've heard. Honestly I regret not doing it. If I can't do jihad in the Middle East, I would do my jihad over here."*_

He had also told the undercover agent that a church would be an easy target because people are not allowed to carry guns there and that it would make the news.

----------------
Minnesota…...

Minnesota teen made bombs, stockpiled guns in prep for school massacre: police

The unhinged teen told cops, after being busted Tuesday, that he planned to shoot his sister, mom and dad with a .22-caliber rifle before he went to a rural field and set a fire to distract cops.
The 11th-grader then said he planned to go to Waseca Junior and Senior High School where he would toss Molotov cocktails and explode pressure-cooker bombs to try and kill “as many students as he could” in the cafeteria during lunchtime.
About 1,000 students, in 7th through 12th grade, attend the school.
LaDue, according to the notebook of his plan, would kill the school resource officer before continuing to kill other students. He was prepared to be gunned down by a SWAT Team, police said.


************************


Vince Vaughn is right about guns (and was brave to be so honest) | Fox News

Last June, Elliot Rodger, who killed six people in Santa Barbara, Calif., explained his own choice. In his 141-page “Manifesto,” Rodger turned down alternate targets because he worried that someone with a gun would cut short his killing spree.

That same month, Justin Bourque shot to death three people in Canada. His Facebook page made fun of gun bans, with pictures of defenseless victims explaining to killers that they weren’t allowed to have guns.

The diary of the Aurora, Colorado, “Batman” movie theater killer, James Holmes, was finally released this past week. It was clear that he was considering both attacking an airport and a movie theater, but he turned down the airport option because he was concerned about their “substantial security.”

Of course, there are numerous other examples such as the Columbine killersopposing the concealed carry law that was then working its way through the state legislature. The bill would have allowed people to carry permitted concealed handguns on school property. The killers timed their attack for the very day that final passage of the law was planned for in the legislature.

If you go to the link for the Colorado theater shooter they have a photo of his journal where he has notes about airports…..he lists one of the items…."Substantial Security"

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/james-holmes-notebook-dragged.pdf
**************

Sandy hook, did not have police resource officer

http://gunwars.news21.com/blog/2014/07/building-a-safer-sandy-hook/

The high school and middle school, which already had armed resource officers, doubled down on security and restricted all visitors that didn’t have prior permission to enter.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lupica-lanza-plotted-massacre-years-article-1.1291408?print

They don’t believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet,” he continued. “This was the work of a video gamer, and that it was his intent to put his own name at the very top of that list. They believe that he picked an elementary school because he felt it was a point of least resistance, where he could rack up the greatest number of kills. That’s what (the Connecticut police) believe.”



			One moment, please...


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> True.
> 
> In fact, arming teachers at all is a bad idea and moronic.
> 
> ...




You can post that after 400 police waited outside an unlocked, classroom door for 90 minutes, as the killer murdered 21 teachers and students?

While this woman in West Virginia, a civilian, not a SEAL or cop stopped a mass public shooter who was also armed with a rifle...with her concealed carry pistol.....

And the guy in the Indiana mall, also a civilian, not a SEAL or cop, stopped the attacker, who was also armed with a rifle, in 15 seconds after the attacker started shooting?

You are a fool...

*House Party shooter....*

As Hunt and other partiers had a bite to eat in the kitchen, the suspect pulled out a gun and began firing on the crowd, sending everyone fleeing, Mendez recounted. 



Mendez was shot in the head in front of his wife, who rushed to his side and believed he was dead due to the amount of blood covering his face. She then grabbed their two daughters and put them into a room deeper in the house, barricading them and other children inside. 



"She barricaded the door with the dresser. There were three other children in there, not including my two daughters. A total of five kids. She … throws them in the closet, throws clothes over them. Tells them, ‘Be quiet. Do not make a peep if you hear loud noises in this room,’" Mendez said of his wife's actions. 



As Hunt continued his alleged rampage, two other women began fighting back against the suspect and screamed for Mendez, knowing he had a concealed carry weapon, Mendez said. 



"By the glory of God or the adrenaline and just everything, just the will to live and the will to protect my family, I was able to hear those pleas, those yells for help. I heard my name. And I was able to get up," he said. 



He was able to pull out his firearm and shoot the suspect four times in the chest. 



"Detectives have determined the individual who shot Jason, and others who fought against Jason, were acting in self-defense and defense of other innocent parties," Sgt. Tommy Hale said in a press release days after the incident, KTAR reported at the time. 



http://[URL='https://www.foxnews.co...celebrates-second-amendment-thwarting-shooter[/URL]



======



*Indiana mall shooting...*



Within 15 seconds of a gunman opening fire inside a mall in Greenwood, Indiana, Elisjsha Dicken was able to step in and prevent further deaths.







			https://fox59.com/news/national-world/grateful-for-his-heroism-man-stopped-indiana-mall-shooter-in-15-seconds/======
		




*West Virginia woman....*



Witnesses said Butler seemed agitated and left but returned to the complex shortly after, armed with an AR-15 style rifle, and started shooting at the crowd.

Police said a woman pulled out her pistol, shooting and killing him.

"This lady was carrying a lawful firearm," Hazelett said. "A law abiding citizen who stopped the threat of probably 20 or 30 people getting killed. She engaged the threat and stopped it. She didn't run from the threat, she engaged it. Preventing a mass casualty event here in Charleston."






https://www.wral.com/woman-credited...-apartment-complex-in-west-virginia/20306891/

======



*Shotgun attacker at Church service....*



Wilson’s single shot quickly ended the attack that killed Wallace, 64, and White, 67, at the West Freeway Church of Christ in the Fort Worth-area town of White Settlement. He said the entire confrontation was over in no more than six seconds. More than 240 congregants were in the church at the time.



Firearms instructor took out gunman at Texas church service

=====



*Southerland Springs Church shooting .....*



Willeford propped his AR-15 on the pickup’s hood and peered through the sight. He could see a holographic red dot on the man’s chest. He fired twice. He wasn’t sure he’d hit him, though he was later told that the man had contusions on his chest and abdomen consistent with getting shot while wearing body armor. Regardless, the gunman stopped shooting and ran for a white Ford Explorer that was idling outside the chapel, roughly twenty yards from where Willeford had positioned himself.











						The Hero of Sutherland Springs Is Still Reckoning with What Happened that Day
					

One year ago, after Stephen Willeford disrupted the mass murder at First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, he was hailed as the ultimate good guy with a gun, but he's still reckoning with what happened that day—and what his life has become.




					www.texasmonthly.com
				






*Deputies: Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense*

According to deputies, Parangan pulled out a handgun and fired multiple shots at Pastor Terry Howell, who took out his own weapon and fired back, striking Parangan.

Howell was not injured, but Parangan was taken to Osceola Regional Medical Center in critical condition.

Deputies said several church employees witnessed the incident and gave similar statements.

*this Psychiatrist was not an off duty cop.....*

Penn. psychiatric center shooting intended mass killing: DA

The Pennsylvania patient accused of killing his caseworker in a psychiatric center shooting carried dozens of bullets — and he would have likely continued shooting if a doctor didn’t fire back, officials said.

Richard Plotts, 49, is expected to be charged with murder for allegedly opening fire at Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center in Darby Thursday.

After he killed his caseworker, 53-year-old Theresa Hunt, and shot his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman, the wounded doctor fired back, stopping the attack, District Attorney Jack Whelan said in a Friday press conference.

Plotts had 39 more bullets on him. He intended a mass shooting, Whelan said.

=============

*The other Night club shooting, but this one was stopped by armed civilian...*

This past Sunday, exactly two weeks to the day after the Pulse attack, there was a mass shooting outside a night club in South Carolina. I’m sure you haven’t heard about it, and for two good reasons. The first reason is that the attempted murderer was unsuccessful in killing any of his victims. The second reason is because the attempted murderer was stopped by a concealed carrier at the club drawing his weapon and putting a bullet into the bad guy.


Lyman man charged following shooting at nightclub


----------



## M14 Shooter (Sep 17, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Arming teachers will only result in more children being killed, shot by inexperienced, incompetent armed teachers.


As we all know:
You know you cannot prove this to be true.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 18, 2022)

Dammit, 2AGuy is spooging all of the thread again with his National Rampage Association talking points... Let's try to just address his original content. 



2aguy said:


> We already can, you asshat....the democrats just don't care.....they just release the most violent criminals no matter how many felonies they have......you explain that....


Uh, first, we've been over that..   We don't have enough room in prison to just lock up the petty felons, particularly if they aren't an immediate danger and they are only guilty of mere gun possession. 

You catch someone with a gun he shouldn't have, you take the fucking gun.  



2aguy said:


> You can post that after 400 police waited outside an unlocked, classroom door for 90 minutes, as the killer murdered 21 teachers and students?



You mean the cops who thought they were dealing with a hostage situation instead of an active shooter?  

The real problem isn't how many cops showed up, it was that a crazy person was allowed to buy a gun because you guys have misinterpreted an amendment about militias to mean unlimited gun ownership. 



ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Vietnam and Afghanistan are just a couple of the countries that survived a war with several different countries that where technologically superior. It's called asymmetric warfare. There is the posse comitatus act that prohibits the US military from enforcing domestic policy which leaves the National Guard and local police. You loons will be asking these people to arrest and possible kill their friends family and neighbors. I'm going to ignore your other responses to my posts on this subject because I've explained this several times and you morons keep spewing the same shit everytime. You do not know what the fuck your talking about.



So your argument is that when the technologically superior power gets tired of pissing away resources murdering millions of people, they will go home?  Um... okay, not sure how that would apply domestically to a bunch of nuts with guns.  

The reality is, if you nuts ever started an armed insurrection, the military will put your asses down hard and they'll get a shit load of medals for doing it.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 18, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, here's the thing.  None of these people have been convicted of anything.   If you are requiring a bail for a crime, you are essentially penalizing poverty, as the affluent criminals will be able to post bail and the non-affluent will not.
> 
> Pre-trial incarceration should ONLY be for people who are an immediate danger to someone else, and that is what the current law calls for. If you are going to lock someone up before you've secured a conviction, you should be able to prove they are actually dangerous.
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty?  What a crazy idea?


Uh, here's the thing, Bail is a tool to impose some measure of accountability. It's the typical leftist talking point that goes, ''requiring a bail for a crime, you are essentially penalizing poverty''. Um, no. Bail us collateral intended to guarantee an appearance in court by the person arrested for a crime. 

Um, yeah. The problem with the leftist ideoligy is that criminals are to be protected and coddled while the crime victim is abandoned. 



Here we see the result of leftist coddling of criminals. 









						The truth: 43% of people let go with no bail on a serious charge in NYC were rearrested — the ‘reform’ is a disaster
					

Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins and other politicians who voted for the disastrous New York bail-reform laws keep quoting a “study” that claims only 2% of defendants released under th…




					nypost.com


----------



## Hollie (Sep 18, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Sounds like we have a problem in determining who to lock up... gee.  Maybe instead of making bail a for profit industry, we can actually make determinations about who is actually dangerous and who isn't.


We, (leftist DA's), certainly do have a problem determining who to lock up, even determining what crimes are crimes at all. The results are pretty obvious. Left wing Hell Holes are nearly unliveable.


‘We Will Not Prosecute’: Left-Wing Prosecutors, Many Backed By Soros Cash, Implement Soft-On-Crime Policies Across America"


*Left-wing prosecutors overseeing Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Philadelphia and San Francisco have embraced soft-on-crime approaches, a Daily Caller News Foundation review found.*
*Several top district attorneys vowed not to prosecute specific crimes as a matter of policy.*
*Multiple analyses have shown left-wing prosecutors dropping or diverting more charges than their predecessors. *
*Super PACs backed by billionaire George Soros are major funders for several left-wing prosecutors taking soft-on-crime approaches. *


----------



## maybelooking (Sep 18, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The thread premise is a lie.
> 
> No one is 'anti-gun.'


one of the best attempts at hijacking a thread I have seen around here.

nice!!!


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Uh, here's the thing, Bail is a tool to impose some measure of accountability. It's the typical leftist talking point that goes, ''requiring a bail for a crime, you are essentially penalizing poverty''. Um, no. Bail us collateral intended to guarantee an appearance in court by the person arrested for a crime.



Sounds like a good reason to get rid of it.  Frankly, a lot of people make money off of it, does it make us any safer?  



Hollie said:


> Here we see the result of leftist coddling of criminals.



You believe anything you read in the NY Post? 

Let's get real here. We have crime because we have poverty.  Penalizing poor people for being poor isn't a strategy, when the murderer can raise bail money, but the turnstyle jumper can't.  



Hollie said:


> We, (leftist DA's), certainly do have a problem determining who to lock up, even determining what crimes are crimes at all. The results are pretty obvious. Left wing Hell Holes are nearly unliveable.



Oh, noes, you mean we are treating poor people of color like white people now, who commit minor offenses?


----------



## Hollie (Sep 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Sounds like a good reason to get rid of it.  Frankly, a lot of people make money off of it, does it make us any safer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Odd. I guess the leftist tactic of coddling criminals is to just ignore crime and hope it just goes away.





__





						Loading…
					





					www.google.com
				




An accused jilted madman who flew into an ax-wielding rage at a Lower East Side McDonald’s was released without bail at his arraignment, authorities said Sunday.


Seems, you know, a real shame to impose bail.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 19, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Odd. I guess the leftist tactic of coddling criminals is to just ignore crime and hope it just goes away.



Incel Joe and its kind don't want crime to go away.  They are explicitly on the side if criminals, and against the side of human beings.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 19, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Odd. I guess the leftist tactic of coddling criminals is to just ignore crime and hope it just goes away.
> 
> 
> An accused jilted madman who flew into an ax-wielding rage at a Lower East Side McDonald’s was released without bail at his arraignment, authorities said Sunday.



Not sure why you think the NY POst is a good source.  Also, your link doesn't go anywhere.  

I'm willing to bet that this man had a LONG history of mental health problems that went unaddressed through his life. 

You see, this is where you Conservatives are kind of funny.  You've spent the last forty years slashing mental health treatment for the public, and then you wonder why people go off like this.   

So here's a crazy idea. Let's make it easy for people to get mental health treatment and HARD for them to get weapons.  



Bob Blaylock said:


> @Joe and its kind don't want crime to go away. They are explicitly on the side if criminals, and against the side of human beings.



Hey, guy, everyone is a human being... even Mormons. 

The funny thing is, you go to bed at night with a full belly and a warm house and when you get sick, you know you can see a doctor.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not sure why you think the NY POst is a good source.  Also, your link doesn't go anywhere.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that this man had a LONG history of mental health problems that went unaddressed through his life.
> 
> ...



*You've spent the last forty years slashing mental health treatment for the public, and then you wonder why people go off like this.  

No....the left spent the last 40 years telling us the mentally ill deserve to run free no matter how helpless or dangerous they are....you guys fought to get the hospitals closed and to send the mentally ill onto the streets...*


----------



## Hollie (Sep 19, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not sure why you think the NY POst is a good source.  Also, your link doesn't go anywhere.
> 
> I'm willing to bet that this man had a LONG history of mental health problems that went unaddressed through his life.
> 
> ...


Obviously, you need conspiracy theories as a soothing balm for your tender, injured sensibilities. 

In the upside down world of the far left, no bail for whack jobs slashing through a McDonalds is the natural order of things. Just another example of the insanity that defines the whacked out left. 

I’m willing to bet that if the fellow with a hatchet did have mental health problems, that would be the perfect excuse for the left to ignore considering the safety of the general public and simply turn him loose to allow him another try. 

It’s the left that wants to slash mental health care and confinement for the mentally I’ll so just leave them on the street. 

The lefty paradise of Portland:









						Laurelhurst residents pressure Portland city lawyers to remove homeless camp near the park
					

After over a year of sweeps and returns, fed-up Laurelhurst residents are now trying to take matters into their own hands.



					www.opb.org
				





Los Angeles:









						Fear of falling into homelessness is urgent threat for many L.A. voters, new poll finds
					

L.A. voters want the government to focus on shelter for homeless people living in the streets, even if those efforts are short term, a poll has found.




					www.latimes.com
				






It’s just a party in leftist paradises.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You've spent the last forty years slashing mental health treatment for the public, and then you wonder why people go off like this.
> 
> No....the left spent the last 40 years telling us the mentally ill deserve to run free no matter how helpless or dangerous they are....you guys fought to get the hospitals closed and to send the mentally ill onto the streets...



You mean ending mental hospitals where the mentally ill were warehoused under inhumane conditions?  

Um.. yeah. I hope that decent people were against that. 

What they should have been replaced with were outpatient programs.  Instead, we got tax cuts for rich people. 





__





						Trump has Tried to Slash Funds for Mental Health Care Despite Post-Shooting Rhetoric | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness
					

NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, is the nation’s largest grassroots mental health organization dedicated to building better lives for the millions of Americans affected by mental illness.




					www.nami.org
				




_While President Donald Trump has long attempted to link mass shootings to mental health issues, he has simultaneously proposed budgets that would strip hundreds of billions from Medicaid, the country's largest payer of behavioral health services.

As he has done after past mass shootings—for example, the Thousand Oaks, California shooting in November; the Parkland, Florida shooting in February 2018 and the Sutherland Springs, Texas shooting in November 2017, for example—Trump blamed mental illness during his remarks Monday about two killing sprees that occurred over the weekend.

Yet Trump has sought to slash vast amounts of money from Medicaid in his budget proposals since taking office, despite previously promising not to cut the program's funding. In March, he proposed slashing almost $1.5 trillion from projected Medicaid spending_.


Those Dressage Horses aren't going to buy themselves!!!!


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Obviously, you need conspiracy theories as a soothing balm for your tender, injured sensibilities.
> 
> In the upside down world of the far left, no bail for whack jobs slashing through a McDonalds is the natural order of things. Just another example of the insanity that defines the whacked out left.
> 
> I’m willing to bet that if the fellow with a hatchet did have mental health problems, that would be the perfect excuse for the left to ignore considering the safety of the general public and simply turn him loose to allow him another try.



Or that all he did was damage property, which is why they didn't give him a high bail amount. 

The leftist natural order of things is that we'd have universal health care that would include mental health treatment.   

The Rightwing natural order is to not get this man treatment, but make it easy for him to get a gun.  Because he's part of a well-regulated militia or something. 



Hollie said:


> It’s the left that wants to slash mental health care and confinement for the mentally I’ll so just leave them on the street.



Then why is it the right that keeps slashing programs? 





__





						Trump has Tried to Slash Funds for Mental Health Care Despite Post-Shooting Rhetoric | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness
					

NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, is the nation’s largest grassroots mental health organization dedicated to building better lives for the millions of Americans affected by mental illness.




					www.nami.org
				












						Abbott calls Texas school shooting a mental health issue but cut state spending for it
					

While such programs require more funding, they wouldn't eliminate the need for gun control, experts said.




					www.nbcnews.com
				




Check out which states don't spend that much on mental health... Yup, it's mostly the red states.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or that all he did was damage property, which is why they didn't give him a high bail amount.
> 
> The leftist natural order of things is that we'd have universal health care that would include mental health treatment.
> 
> ...



Yeah. Swinging a hatchet in a public place, assault and battery. No big deal in the alternate reality of leftism. 

Although, it seems you somehow don’t know the facts. 









						Video: NYC man rampages at people with hatchet in McDonald's
					

A man was arrested after he punched multiple people and used a hatchet to smash a glass partition and tables in the restaurant on Friday.




					americanmilitarynews.com
				




A man was arrested after getting into an altercation at a New York City McDonald’s on Friday in which he struck multiple people with his hands and used a hatchet to smash glass and tables in the restaurant. The incident was captured on video that amassed more than 25 million views as of Monday.


What’s a little assault and battery, right? No problem in the leftist worldview. I guess it’s convenient to ignore the facts but that doesn’t change the facts.

What was that about funds for mental healthcare?









						Hospital groups decry new round of DSH cuts in latest infrastructure bill
					

Hospital groups are making a last-minute push to prevent Congress from including cuts to safety net hospitals in a massive $1.75 trillion infrastructure package. | Hospital groups are imploring Democrats in Congress to nix cuts in payments to hospitals that serve a high amount of Medicaid and...




					www.fiercehealthcare.com
				














						Senators Can't Agree on Agency Funding Levels, Even As Democrats Hold Back on Some Increases
					

Republicans deride Democratic priorities in fiscal 2023 bills with just two months until a shutdown.




					www.govexec.com
				




Senators Can't Agree on Agency Funding Levels, Even As Democrats Hold Back on Some Increases​Republicans deride Democratic priorities in fiscal 2023 bills with just two months until a shutdown.​

So. What do the facts tell us about your lack of honesty, integrity and knowledge?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Yeah. Swinging a hatchet in a public place, assault and battery. No big deal in the alternate reality of leftism.
> 
> Although, it seems you somehow don’t know the facts.



Point was, he didn't hit anyone with the hatchet, he just damaged property with it.  



Hollie said:


> What’s a little assault and battery, right? No problem in the leftist worldview. I guess it’s convenient to ignore the facts but that doesn’t change the facts.



Again, until we decide we are going to deal with the underlying drivers of crime - Racism, Poverty, Mental Illness, Addiction and Gun Proliferation- we are going to have to learn to live with crime.   But keep fondling your gun, I'm sure that will make you feel better.  

Oh, the Europeans have already figured this out. 



Hollie said:


> Senators Can't Agree on Agency Funding Levels, Even As Democrats Hold Back on Some Increases​Republicans deride Democratic priorities in fiscal 2023 bills with just two months until a shutdown.​



You mean the Democrats are having a hard time restoring funds Trump already slashed... yes, we know this.


----------



## Pete7469 (Sep 20, 2022)

*I'm sure I've said this already, but the primary reason bed wetter DA's release violent thugs so easily is because they want the chaos to continue or even increase. The bed wetters are convinced that if the lawlessness is maintained or even made worse, most Americans will demand gov't solves the "problem" the bed wetters created. The only real way the problem will be solved of course, is for the democrook criminal syndicate to be defeated in elections and for decent people to fertilize the soil with thug brains upon being attacked.

Helicopters might come in handy also.... Just sayin'...



.*


----------



## Hollie (Sep 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Point was, he didn't hit anyone with the hatchet, he just damaged property with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Point was, it was assault and battery that could have escalated to far worse. 

Point is, until the left decides to hold criminals accountable, leftist run Hell holes of crime, drugs and violence will get worse. 









						Analysis: Democrats at the helm of 11 of the 15 deadliest cities in U.S.
					

A TND analysis of the 15 deadliest cities in America discovered that 11 of them are primarily run by Democrats. The National Desk (TND) looked at the party affiliations of mayors, district attorneys, sheriffs and city council members within the nation’s 15 cities which currently hold the highest...




					www.google.com
				




The cities largely run by Democrats are St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans, Detroit, Cleveland, Newark, Chicago, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh.

All but three cities on the list have Democratic mayors. Democratic district attorneys are also in charge of prosecution in 12 of the 15 cities.

The top four deadliest cities -- St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans and Detroit -- have Democratic mayors, sheriffs, prosecutors and city council leaders. The fifth, Cleveland, has Democrats across the board with the exception of an unaffiliated sheriff who was appointed to his position.

Progressive prosecutors, which hold office in nearly all of the 15 cities, have come under fire lately for weakening their prosecutorial standards. 



It's remarkable that Ultra-leftists choose to ignore the deadly reality they create.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Point was, he didn't hit anyone with the hatchet, he just damaged property with it.





JoeB131 said:


> Again, until we decide we are going to deal with the underlying drivers of crime - Racism, Poverty, Mental Illness, Addiction and Gun Proliferation- we are going to have to learn to live with crime. But keep fondling your gun, I'm sure that will make you feel better.



  No actual human being would make excuses for sub human criminal shit, the way you do.  Only a criminal would.

  Do you wonder why nobody on this forum believes you when you claim that you are not a subhuman criminal piece of shit, just like those whose side you openly take against the side of human beings?

  Do you even care?


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or that all he did was damage property, which is why they didn't give him a high bail amount.
> 
> The leftist natural order of things is that we'd have universal health care that would include mental health treatment.
> 
> ...




Universal Healthcare around the world is bankrupting the countries that have it, and the medical care sucks.....and each year it gets worse....

What you asshats never admit is the only reason Europe and Japan can have the government healthcare they have, is the United States pays for everything else.....we protect them with our military, our technology sector gives them their new technologies.....and our drug companies actually make the drugs they use, which they then refuse to pay a fair price for.....

You never want to acknowledge that without the U.S., the government healthcare in all of those countries would have collapsed decades ago...


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Point was, it was assault and battery that could have escalated to far worse.


 
Could have been, should have been, would have been. 

He damaged some property.   Ideal world, he should have gotten mental health treatment, but instead, we'll toss him out on the street until he gets worse.  



Hollie said:


> Point is, until the left decides to hold criminals accountable, leftist run Hell holes of crime, drugs and violence will get worse.


You mean you have more crime when you have more people.  AMAZING!  



Bob Blaylock said:


> No actual human being would make excuses for sub human criminal shit, the way you do. Only a criminal would.
> 
> Do you wonder why nobody on this forum believes you when you claim that you are not a subhuman criminal piece of shit, just like those whose side you openly take against the side of human beings?
> 
> Do you even care?



Do I care what a member of a deranged cult thinks, not really.  you are fine with the poverty, you are fine with the racism, you are fine with the lack of social programs, you are fine with the guns... you don't get to whine about the crime.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 20, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Universal Healthcare around the world is bankrupting the countries that have it, and the medical care sucks.....and each year it gets worse....





2aguy said:


> What you asshats never admit is the only reason Europe and Japan can have the government healthcare they have, is the United States pays for everything else.....we protect them with our military, our technology sector gives them their new technologies.....and our drug companies actually make the drugs they use, which they then refuse to pay a fair price for.....



Okay, let's look at that..

The US Spends 17% of it's GDP on health care.  We let the insurance industry and Big Pharma rape sick people.   We let people suffer from treatable illnesses because insurance companies decide treating them isn't profitable.  We have the worst health care results in the industrialized world. 

And you are sincerely worried about their profits. 

Meanwhile most European Countries and Japan have single payer health care.  They spend 8-11% of their GDP on health care.  They live longer. They have lower incidences of obesity and other problems.  They have lower infant mortality rates.  Because they started out with the notion that health care was a right and a service, and not a commodity to be monetized.  



2aguy said:


> You never want to acknowledge that without the U.S., the government healthcare in all of those countries would have collapsed decades ago...



Wow, you just went full Ugly American, didn't you?


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Okay, let's look at that..
> 
> The US Spends 17% of it's GDP on health care.  We let the insurance industry and Big Pharma rape sick people.   We let people suffer from treatable illnesses because insurance companies decide treating them isn't profitable.  We have the worst health care results in the industrialized world.
> 
> ...




And without the United States, the health care systems around the world would collapse.....Europe, Japan, all have healthcare run by the government because we pay for their national defense, our drug companies, the ones you hate, create the pills they refuse to pay a fair price for, and our innovation leads to the all the fun toys the Europeans and Asians use.....

If they had to pay for their national defense, they wouldn't be able to afford their social welfare states...you idiot.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 20, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Do I care what a member of a deranged cult thinks, not really. you are fine with the poverty, you are fine with the racism, you are fine with the lack of social programs, you are fine with the guns... you don't get to whine about the crime.



  You openly support policies that create more crime.  You openly oppose any reasonable measures to restrain criminals from harming human beings.  You openly oppose allowing human beings the tools to defend ourselves against subhuman criminal shit.

  Every policy position that you have taken with regard to crime, clearly and undeniably shows you to be very solidly on the side of subhuman criminal shit, and against the side of human beings.

  What reason is there for anyone to believe that you are a human being, and not a subhuman piece of criminal shit just like those whose side you openly and unabashedly take?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> You openly support policies that create more crime. You openly oppose any reasonable measures to restrain criminals from harming human beings. You openly oppose allowing human beings the tools to defend ourselves against subhuman criminal shit.



Because those things don't work.. they make the problem worse.  Sweet Evil Mormon Jesus, man, I'm not sure how many times I need to explain it to you. 

If you let people live in grinding, third world poverty and face systematic racism. 
If you let them have easy access to guns.
If you don't treat their mental illnesses and addictions

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE CRIME.  

The Europeans figured this out.  They don't have the problems we have.  



Bob Blaylock said:


> Every policy position that you have taken with regard to crime, clearly and undeniably shows you to be very solidly on the side of subhuman criminal shit, and against the side of human beings.



Uh, no, I'm on the side of finding solutions...  What we are doing doesn't work.  You can scream about morality all day, but at the end of the day, what you are doing makes the problems worse, not better.  We have jammed our prisons beyond their capacity to the point where they've become dangerous to not only the prisoners, but the people who work there.  We have a militarized police departments while we all cower in our homes.  We have 7 million people on probation and parole and 100 million with police records.  

In short, we've turned our whole country into one big prison where we are afraid to  look at someone the wrong way, and you scream... MORE OF THAT!!!!   



Bob Blaylock said:


> What reason is there for anyone to believe that you are a human being, and not a subhuman piece of criminal shit just like those whose side you openly and unabashedly take?



Well, to start with, I don't belong to a deranged cult started by pedophiles, there's that.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And without the United States, the health care systems around the world would collapse.....Europe, Japan, all have healthcare run by the government because we pay for their national defense, our drug companies, the ones you hate, create the pills they refuse to pay a fair price for, and our innovation leads to the all the fun toys the Europeans and Asians use.....
> 
> If they had to pay for their national defense, they wouldn't be able to afford their social welfare states...you idiot.



Works on the assumption that they would really need or want to spend billions weapons that don't work to fight countries that aren't their enemy.  

But let's look at this one.    The US Spends 5% of it's GDP on national defense.   Most European countries only spend 2% on defense, because they aren't trying to conquer other countries to make them safe for McDonalds.   This pales compared to what we and spend on Health Care. 

 We spend 17% on health care, because frankly, too many people are making money on it.  The executives who get nine-figure salaries, the investors who get big payouts, the doctor's office that has to hire three girls to sort out all the insurance claims.  

Meanwhile, they spend 8-11% on health care.   This wouldn't be impacted if they spent more on national defense, really, they pay that little because they are more efficient.  Only one payer, nobody makes an obscene profit like a Ferengi (Little Trek humor I thought you'd appreciate), people don't wait until something becomes really serious before they see a doctor.   There's a reason why all those countries responded a lot better to Covid than we did.  They had the health care infrastructure in place to deal with it. 

We had an orange buffoon who thought, "Let's just be racist towards Asian people" was an answer.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, no, I'm on the side of finding solutions...



  All of your _“solutions”_ are proven to have the effect, and the obvious intent, of increasing crime, of making it easier for subhuman criminal shit to prey on human beings.

  You've made it abundantly clear, all along, that that is what you want; that you are on the side of subhuman criminal shit, and against the side of human beings.

 Again, why would any rational person believe your lies about being a human being, and not being a subhuman criminal piece of shit just like those whose side you obviously are on?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> All of your _“solutions”_ are proven to have the effect, and the obvious intent, of increasing crime, of making it easier for subhuman criminal shit to prey on human beings.
> 
> You've made it abundantly clear, all along, that that is what you want; that you are on the side of subhuman criminal shit, and against the side of human beings.
> 
> Again, why would any rational person believe your lies about being a human being, and not being a subhuman criminal piece of shit just like those whose side you obviously are on?



My solutions are what the Europeans and Japanese are doing, and they have LESS crime.  

But since you lack critical thinking skills due to your cult brainwashing, I'm not sure you'll understand it if I explain it to you again. 

Also, being up at 3:30 in the morning obsessing about me is ... kind of weird.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Also, being up at 3:30 in the morning obsessing about me is ... kind of weird.



  That's just you being a narcissist.

  I'm participating on a message board, the same as you.  That we are both in the same discussion, and responding to each other therein, does not mean that one of us is being _“obsessed”_ with the other.

  It's no surprise that you think it's _“weird”_ for me to be up at a time that is more or less dictated by my work schedule.  You would not know what it is like to hold a real job.  You certainly never have and never will be man enough to do the kind of job that I do.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> That's just you being a narcissist.
> 
> I'm participating on a message board, the same as you. That we are both in the same discussion, and responding to each other therein, does not mean that one of us is being _“obsessed”_ with the other.
> 
> It's no surprise that you think it's _“weird”_ for me to be up at a time that is more or less dictated by my work schedule. You would not know what it is like to hold a real job. You certainly never have and never will be man enough to do the kind of job that I do.



Yeah, you aren't smart enough to work in an office, or start a business... and you are proud of that.  

But being up at 3 AM in the morning and following me around... that's fucking weird man.  Especially when you fantasize about my sex life, which is even weirder.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, you aren't smart enough to work in an office, or start a business... and you are proud of that.
> 
> But being up at 3 AM in the morning and following me around... that's fucking weird man.  Especially when you fantasize about my sex life, which is even weirder.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Works on the assumption that they would really need or want to spend billions weapons that don't work to fight countries that aren't their enemy.
> 
> But let's look at this one.    The US Spends 5% of it's GDP on national defense.   Most European countries only spend 2% on defense, because they aren't trying to conquer other countries to make them safe for McDonalds.   This pales compared to what we and spend on Health Care.
> 
> ...




No......Russia is more than willing to walk all over Europe and China is already planning on murdering lots of Taiwanese and Japanese citizens....the only thing that has kept it from happening so far is the U.S....which allows Europe to have their welfare state....

If they actually had to train and equip and maintain a military, Europe wouldn't be able to afford their government goodies....we make that possible.....


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, you aren't smart enough to work in an office, or start a business... and you are proud of that.



  In my younger days, I was a computer programmer/data analyst.  What I did then was almost certainly way above your intellectual level.  I doubt that you are anywhere near smart enough to do the work that I was doing then, just as you are not nearly man enough to do the work that I do now.

  It turns out that building stuff, as I now do, suits me better than my earlier computer-nerd work did.

  Nothing about my past and present professions, nor your claimed professions, gives you any basis to think you're any better than I am, or even anywhere near as good as I am.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No......Russia is more than willing to walk all over Europe and China is already planning on murdering lots of Taiwanese and Japanese citizens....the only thing that has kept it from happening so far is the U.S....which allows Europe to have their welfare state....



I just took you through the fucking math, man!  Defense spending is far less than health care spending for EITHER country.   I mean, are you math challenged.   The Euros spend LESS on health care than we do and get FAR better results.   Now, if they had our health care system, you are right, they'd never be able to afford it.   



Bob Blaylock said:


> In my younger days, I was a computer programmer/data analyst. What I did then was almost certainly way above your intellectual level. I doubt that you are anywhere near smart enough to do the work that I was doing then, just as you are not nearly man enough to do the work that I do now.



You gave up a sweet programmer gig to take a job pulling wire...  come one, that doesn't pass the laugh test.  

Uh, I was in the Army for 11 years.. I think I have you beat in the testosterone measuring contest.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You gave up a sweet programmer gig to take a job pulling wire... come one, that doesn't pass the laugh test.



  It's a very odd trajectory that my career has taken, but it's true, and it's verifiable.



Bob Blaylock said:


> It is easy enough to verify my past profession as having been in a scientific setting. This Google Search will bring up several hits on publications in which I am credited as _“R. Blaylock”_ for my various contributions in connection with C. R. Greene and the company Greeneridge Sciences, for which I used to work, when I was much younger. Some of the hits mention, more specifically, my role as a data analyst.
> 
> And here, you can do a search on _“Blaylock”_ and verify my current status as an Electrician Trainee. I'm less than a year away, now, from having enough hours to become a Journeyman Electrician.
> 
> And in between these two main professions, in and around many lesser jobs, I was a forklift operator at a Campbell's Soup factory.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Could have been, should have been, would have been.
> 
> He damaged some property.   Ideal world, he should have gotten mental health treatment, but instead, we'll toss him out on the street until he gets worse.
> 
> ...


Just property damage. That was the whining we heard from the leftist cultists when cities were left burning. 

However, it's property damage someone else has to pay to make repairs. The typical leftist attitude is that they have an entitlement to lawlessness without repercussion..


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Just property damage. That was the whining we heard from the leftist cultists when cities were left burning.
> 
> However, it's property damage someone else has to pay to make repairs. The typical leftist attitude is that they have an entitlement to lawlessness without repercussion..



I thought that was the attitude of the police when it came to George Floyd, Laquan McDonald, and a host of others.   

And that involved lives.   

Personally, I wish the 2020 riots could have been avoided.  You know, when the nice young man took a knee to protest police brutality, and we responded by destroying his career. 

But funny thing.  White people only pay attention to a problem when you threaten to break their stuff.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I thought that was the attitude of the police when it came to George Floyd, Laquan McDonald, and a host of others.
> 
> And that involved lives.
> 
> ...


That was quite a sidestep. Leftists have this peculiar thing with riots, mayhem, and burning down cities and it's always someone else's problem.



But yeah, those Georgr Floyd riots were lots of fun for the leftist mobs.

Peaceful protests.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> My solutions are what the Europeans and Japanese are doing, and they have LESS crime.
> 
> But since you lack critical thinking skills due to your cult brainwashing, I'm not sure you'll understand it if I explain it to you again.
> 
> Also, being up at 3:30 in the morning obsessing about me is ... kind of weird.



European gun crime is increasing....as they get more and more fatherless children and more 3rd world males from war torn countries....

Japan is a police state with a conformist population...you could give every Japanese citizen dozens of guns and their crime rate would never increase....

This is what happens in Japan if you are merely caught carrying a gun....



Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



*Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.*

*“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”



The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.





Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.



Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.



-----

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”



--A police officer in Osaka’s Organized Crime Control Division, speaking on background noted, “In the de facto world of law enforcement, when a yakuza fires a gun, we’re almost always going to charge them with attempted murder—which is a very heavy crime and serious time in ‘the pig-house’ (jail). Guns kill people, so if you use one, intent to kill is right there. Toy guns? Not so much.”

He added, “Unless you’re an old gangster and wanting to stay in jail until you die because you got nowhere else to go, you don’t use a gun. The crime isn’t worth the time in jail.”*





*In the U.S....how democrats deal with actual gun criminals....



Davis was originally arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license in Detroit, and the judge assigned to his case ordered that Davis wear a GPS monitoring device as a condition of his bond.*



* There’s nothing unusual about that, but what’s raising eyebrows, particularly among local police, is what happened after prosecutors repeatedly told the judge that Davis was violating the terms of his bond, including allegedly taking part in a drive-by shooting.

-----





So, by the time Davis appeared before the judge in late May, he’d already had five alleged bond violations and two arrests for separate incidents, including the drive-by shooting. 





The judge could have ordered Davis’ bond revoked and remanded him into custody until his trial, but instead Hathaway took a much different approach: continuing his bond but ordering the removal of the GPS monitoring device that had alerted authorities to his alleged lawbreaking.

----

As you might have guessed, that didn’t stop Davis’ alleged criminal activity. About a month later police, who were now paying attention to Davis’ social media feeds, watched on Instagram as Davis held a gun and allegedly threatened violence against other individuals.*



*http://[URL='https://bearingarms.co...e-study-in-not-enforcing-existing-laws-n60124[/URL]



The two illegal alien mass public shooters given 15,000 dollars bond...



Brietbart....

*

*On Wednesday, as Breitbart News reported, the Richmond Police Department announced the arrests of Guatemalan nationals 52-year-old illegal alien Julio Alvardo Dubon and 38-year-old illegal alien Rolman Balacarcel Ac for allegedly plotting a mass shooting at the city’s July 4th celebration.

---*

The American citizen who thwarted the mass shooting plot called police after he heard a man discussing a plan to “shoot up” Richmond’s annual Fourth of July celebration.



That is when police raided Dubon’s residence to find two rifles, a handgun, and 223 rounds of ammunition. Dubon was subsequently charged with being in possession of a firearm as an alien to the U.S.

---

Dubon has been booked into the Richmond City Jail on a $15,000 bail. Though police said Ac was also booked, his records do not appear in the city jail’s records.

*Illegal Aliens Plotted July 4th Mass Shooting, Thwarted by 'Hero Citizen'

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/07/4th-of-july-shootout-averted.php*

Also.......


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> My solutions are what the Europeans and Japanese are doing, and they have LESS crime.
> 
> But since you lack critical thinking skills due to your cult brainwashing, I'm not sure you'll understand it if I explain it to you again.
> 
> Also, being up at 3:30 in the morning obsessing about me is ... kind of weird.




Japan...how they actually keep crime low, and it has nothing to do with gun control...

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htm

*Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.*

*The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.*

*Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.*


*For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.*


*Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.*


*The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.
The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.*
*15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."


And Joe, who really, really hates American police....thinks that it would be great to have the Japanese Police and all of their powers...*


----------



## Hollie (Sep 21, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> My solutions are what the Europeans and Japanese are doing, and they have LESS crime.
> 
> But since you lack critical thinking skills due to your cult brainwashing, I'm not sure you'll understand it if I explain it to you again.
> 
> Also, being up at 3:30 in the morning obsessing about me is ... kind of weird.



Your solutions delineate real ignorance. You apparently don't understand that the Europeans and the Japanese don't have Constitutions that resemble that of the US.  

Your solution is typical of the leftist cultists. You want to strip away various parts of the Great Satan Constitution because everything about that document offends your tender sensibilities.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 22, 2022)

miketx said:


> Nazi.



No. Joey is more of a Stalinist-down to his fondness for show trials, and secret police with unlimited power. (With, of course, him as head of the NKVD.)


----------



## Jarlaxle (Sep 22, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> You should know that the only armed people on a military base are the MP's personal arms have to be stored in the units arms room. In 1974 Israel had a school shooting afterward they had armed security in every school they have had 2 incidents since. In everyone of the incidents you mentioned the "security" personal failed at their job.
> 
> Put fully vetted armed combat veterans in schools, secure all entrances and school shootings will stop. Everyone of these pieces of shits are cowards they will not confront someone who will kill them without hesitation. Of course this life saving measure would never be implemented because it stops the ultimate goal of disarming law abiding citizens.



You miss the important point: Joey WANTS school shootings. He NEEDS bloodshed. He MUST have dead children, because it's a bloody shirt he can wave in his crusade to limit guns to the rich, the well-connected, police, and criminals. Joey CELEBRATES school shootings.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2022)

Jarlaxle said:


> You miss the important point: Joey WANTS school shootings. He NEEDS bloodshed. He MUST have dead children, because it's a bloody shirt he can wave in his crusade to limit guns to the rich, the well-connected, police, and criminals. Joey CELEBRATES school shootings.



Yep…. A school shooting is like Christmas Day for anti-gun fanatics like Joe… the dead kids are the presents under their gun control holiday tree………They also get to tell Santa Government all their gun control wishes too…..


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2022)

Hollie said:


> That was quite a sidestep. Leftists have this peculiar thing with riots, mayhem, and burning down cities and it's always someone else's problem.



Again- black people asked nicely for 10 years to clean up our police departments.  They elected officials, they peacefully protested, they asked for legislation, and it all fell on deaf ears. 

Then in the middle of TRUMP PLAGUE(TM) and TRUMP RECESSION(TM), you had the televised crucifixion of George Floyd, and people had enough.  



Hollie said:


> But yeah, those Georgr Floyd riots were lots of fun for the leftist mobs.
> 
> Peaceful protests.



Naw, I call them the TRUMP RIOTS(TM), because they only happened because you had a racist president who spent four years encouraging police brutality.  





Hollie said:


> Your solutions delineate real ignorance. You apparently don't understand that the Europeans and the Japanese don't have Constitutions that resemble that of the US.
> 
> Your solution is typical of the leftist cultists. You want to strip away various parts of the Great Satan Constitution because everything about that document offends your tender sensibilities.



Correct, they have better ones not written by 18th century slave rapists.  The German and Japanese Constitutions, for instance, were written with the help of New Dealers who created the kinds of government that the Republicans and Southern Conservatives always resisted.  And not surprisingly, the Germans and Japanese were eating our lunches by the 1970's economically.  

The problem was the slave rapists never meant for guns to be widely available like they are now.  Back then, guns were expensive and you had to have a certain level of affluence to own one.  

The Founders didn't like armed mobs.  The founders like Well-Regulated Militias, which they called out frequently to put down rebellions in the first few decades.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yep…. A school shooting is like Christmas Day for anti-gun fanatics like Joe… the dead kids are the presents under their gun control holiday tree………They also get to tell Santa Government all their gun control wishes too…..



Naw, the problem with Christmas is that it comes once a year... 

We have school shootings on a horrifying regular basis.  

What's horrifying is that when there is a School Shooting, you will be on here with a dozen threads blaming ANYONE else but the gun industry for it. You'll even attack cops.  So much for "Back the Blue".


----------



## Hollie (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again- black people asked nicely for 10 years to clean up our police departments.  They elected officials, they peacefully protested, they asked for legislation, and it all fell on deaf ears.
> 
> Then in the middle of TRUMP PLAGUE(TM) and TRUMP RECESSION(TM), you had the televised crucifixion of George Floyd, and people had enough.
> 
> ...


Wow. Every silly excuse centering on the ''I blame Trump", slogan for the actions of leftist cultists.

Leftist riots were all about, 'I blame Trump" because leftist cultists need excuses for their depravity. 

This is largely a continuation of the actions that that define the Party of Slavery; the Democrat party.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Wow. Every silly excuse centering on the ''I blame Trump", slogan for the actions of leftist cultists.
> 
> Leftist riots were all about, 'I blame Trump" because leftist cultists need excuses for their depravity.
> 
> This is largely a continuation of the actions that that define the Party of Slavery; the Democrat party.



Check your privilege, sweetie.  

Here we are, a bunch of white people who have never gone to bed hungry, never been abused by a police officer because he felt like it, debating why the poorest in this country might act out if pushed too far.  

But you'll blurt out whatever you've heard on Hate Radio like you had an original idea, because that's about as complex as you get.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Check your privilege, sweetie.
> 
> Here we are, a bunch of white people who have never gone to bed hungry, never been abused by a police officer because he felt like it, debating why the poorest in this country might act out if pushed too far.
> 
> But you'll blurt out whatever you've heard on Hate Radio like you had an original idea, because that's about as complex as you get.


Check your privilege, pumpkin. Here _you_ are, a member of the party of slavery attempting to lecture others on your history of racism and exploitation. 

Here you are, virtue signaling about your phony caring need to excuse riots, burning, looting and lawlessness because you hate yourself and your miserable existence.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Check your privilege, pumpkin. Here _you_ are, a member of the party of slavery attempting to lecture others on your history of racism and exploitation.
> 
> Here you are, virtue signaling about your phony caring need to excuse riots, burning, looting and lawlessness because you hate yourself and your miserable existence.



Hardly. 

It never should have come to this.  I've been railing against police misconduct since Trayvon Martin was killed. 

So when the TRUMP RIOTS broke out, my response was, "Told you so!"

This isn't a partisan issue, nor should it be.  What happened to George Floyd, Trayvon Martin, Laquan McDonald, Tamir Rice is unacceptable.

I haven't been on speaking terms with my brother for five years because he is friends with the cop who shot McDonald 16 times when he was lying on the ground.

We've had ten years of these kinds of incidents before the riots broke out.  We did nothing about them.  Republicans and Democrats alike.

Then you had Trump outright cheering police brutality to the point where even police chiefs had to denounce him.

And you wonder why you had riots when people were already stressed out.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hardly.
> 
> It never should have come to this.  I've been railing against police misconduct since Trayvon Martin was killed.
> 
> ...


You have been railing against police misconduct since Trayvon Martin was killed? 

Dude. You're the white savior. You're the hero of blacks that the Party of Slavery continues to exploit. C'mon. Fess-up. You're hoping for bundles of that BLM money that finds its way into the pockets of thieves and scumbags. 

Can I nominate you for a position at the UN? How about High Commissioner of Phony Virtue Signaling?


----------



## Blues Man (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Check your privilege, sweetie.
> 
> Here we are, a bunch of white people who have never gone to bed hungry, never been abused by a police officer because he felt like it, debating why the poorest in this country might act out if pushed too far.
> 
> But you'll blurt out whatever you've heard on Hate Radio like you had an original idea, because that's about as complex as you get.


Speak for yourself.

You really have no right to speak for any Black people


----------



## Blues Man (Sep 22, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You have been railing against police misconduct since Trayvon Martin was killed?
> 
> Dude. You're the white savior. You're the hero of blacks that the Party of Slavery continues to exploit. C'mon. Fess-up. You're hoping for bundles of that BLM money that finds its way into the pockets of thieves and scumbags.
> 
> Can I nominate you for a position at the UN? How about High Commissioner of Phony Virtue Signaling?


Joe, the guy who calls Black people "Darkies"


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Sep 22, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> In the UK, we're not anti gun and your 61 examples would be scrutinized under this -


In the UK, you fucking limey shits do not understand the concept or application of self-defense.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 22, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Joe, the guy who calls Black people "Darkies"



  And whenever Incel Joe responds to anyone advocating that criminals should be held to answer for their crimes, it nearly always includes language equating criminality to being black, and suggesting that to oppose criminals is to be _“racist”_ against black people.

  Funny, none of the black people with whom I associate are criminals; they're all honest, hard-working men just like myself, my equals in every way.  Their albedo just happens to be lower than mine.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Naw, the problem with Christmas is that it comes once a year...
> 
> We have school shootings on a horrifying regular basis.
> 
> What's horrifying is that when there is a School Shooting, you will be on here with a dozen threads blaming ANYONE else but the gun industry for it. You'll even attack cops.  So much for "Back the Blue".




we had 13 mass public school shootings in 56 years.....you doofus.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> In the UK, you fucking limey shits do not understand the concept or application of self-defense.




Sorry, you are wrong.....in Britain, if victim fights back against a rapist, robber or murderer, the rapist, robber or murderer has the Right to stomp the living crap out of them.............


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> What's horrifying is that when there is a School Shooting, you will be on here with a dozen threads blaming ANYONE else but the gun industry for it.



  You mean like blaming the actual subhuman piece of shit that committed the crime?  We can't have that, now, can we?

  Why are you so opposed to blaming the actual criminal for the crime that it committed?  Why are you so determined to blame someone or something else?

  No need to answer.  Those were rhetorical questions.  We all know why you don't want to blame the criminal, don't we.  You stick up for your own kind.


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## Captain Caveman (Sep 22, 2022)

Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> In the UK, you fucking limey shits do not understand the concept or application of self-defense.


You septic *y*tanks don't understand the basics of life. Solid bone from the neck up. You haven't a clue of UK reasonable defence laws, the subject flies 33,0000 feet over your head.

In the UK, I could kill you, if in the circumstances it's classed as reasonable. But because you're running away retreating, I have to let you scurry away like a coward.


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## Blues Man (Sep 22, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You septic *y*tanks don't understand the basics of life. Solid bone from the neck up. You haven't a clue of UK reasonable defence laws, the subject flies 33,0000 feet over your head.
> 
> In the UK, I could kill you, if in the circumstances it's classed as reasonable. But because you're running away retreating, I have to let you scurry away like a coward.


And I can shoot you if it is deemed reasonable by a jury of my peers.

Let's see how fast you piss your pants when you're looking down the barrel of a .45


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Sep 22, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You septic *y*tanks don't understand the basics of life. Solid bone from the neck up. You haven't a clue of UK reasonable defence laws, the subject flies 33,0000 feet over your head.
> 
> In the UK, I could kill you, if in the circumstances it's classed as reasonable. But because you're running away retreating, I have to let you scurry away like a coward.


You said it yourself.  I must bring a toothpick to a toothpick fight, even if the other guy is 30 stone of solid muscle.

Get bent, limey.


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## Blues Man (Sep 22, 2022)

This is what happens in the UK if you defend yourself and your pregnant girlfriend against a piece of shit breaking into your home 









						Man arrested after knocking burglar who raided his home unconscious
					

Danny Crawford says his life remains 'in limbo' as police continue to investigate incident




					www.independent.co.uk


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## Blues Man (Sep 22, 2022)

or this

A 78 year old man fights off 2 home invaders and gets arrested for it









						Man, 78, arrested over fatal stabbing of suspected burglar
					

Suspected intruder dies in hospital after incident at property in south-east London




					www.theguardian.com


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2022)

Hollie said:


> You have been railing against police misconduct since Trayvon Martin was killed?
> 
> Dude. You're the white savior. You're the hero of blacks that the Party of Slavery continues to exploit. C'mon. Fess-up. You're hoping for bundles of that BLM money that finds its way into the pockets of thieves and scumbags.
> 
> Can I nominate you for a position at the UN? How about High Commissioner of Phony Virtue Signaling?



You miss the point.  I'm old enough to remember the riots after MLK was assassinated in 1968.  I remember the Rodney King riots of 1992.  The thing is we DON'T fix the problems, and then we wonder why we keep having riots. 

Not a matter of virtue signaling, it's a matter of pragmatism.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> You mean like blaming the actual subhuman piece of shit that committed the crime? We can't have that, now, can we?
> 
> Why are you so opposed to blaming the actual criminal for the crime that it committed? Why are you so determined to blame someone or something else?
> 
> No need to answer. Those were rhetorical questions. We all know why you don't want to blame the criminal, don't we. You stick up for your own kind.



Because blaming the criminal doesn't prevent the next one, dummy.   

Whenever a mass shooting happens, we find out two things. 

1) Everyone in that person's life knew they had serious mental problems. 
2) Despite that, that person was able to easily acquire guns and ammunition.  

So- here's a crazy idea.  Let's actually make it hard for the next guy to get a gun.  We can't do much about the last guy.. more often than not they don't survive the attack.   But we can do something about the next guy. 



Bob Blaylock said:


> And whenever Joe responds to anyone advocating that criminals should be held to answer for their crimes, it nearly always includes language equating criminality to being black, and suggesting that to oppose criminals is to be _“racist”_ against black people.
> 
> Funny, none of the black people with whom I associate are criminals; they're all honest, hard-working men just like myself, my equals in every way. Their albedo just happens to be lower than mine.


Uh, no, Mormon Bob, you are the one who wants to murder a black kid for stealing a bag of chips, while giving a pass the white corporate criminal who steals someone's life savings. 

This is what makes you a racist.  Not how you treat the "good ones".


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## Hollie (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You miss the point.  I'm old enough to remember the riots after MLK was assassinated in 1968.  I remember the Rodney King riots of 1992.  The thing is we DON'T fix the problems, and then we wonder why we keep having riots.
> 
> Not a matter of virtue signaling, it's a matter of pragmatism.


Odd how both the Rodney King riots very quickly became the Rodney King "loot the stores" riot. The George Floyd riots were much the same with the added bonus of the left deciding to encourage BLM. Remember it was Kamala Harris who supported the BLM bail fund. 

Remember the Portland "summer of love"? Good times. 

Tell us about "pragmatic" when it comes to leftists encouraging violent criminals.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Odd how both the Rodney King riots very quickly became the Rodney King "loot the stores" riot. The George Floyd riots were much the same with the added bonus of the left deciding to encourage BLM. Remember it was Kamala Harris who supported the BLM bail fund.
> 
> Remember the Portland "summer of love"? Good times.
> 
> Tell us about "pragmatic" when it comes to leftists encouraging violent criminals.



Pragmatic is not ignoring a problem until people to think violence is the only way their complaints get addressed.  

People had complained about the LAPD and Darryl Gates for decades.. but after the riots, the problem got fixed.  Gates was gone, and practices were changed. 

Same thing with the BLM demonstrations.  We had 10 years of peaceful demonstration.  Colin took a knee.  People protested.  Nothing got fixed.  Until the riots, then you would be amazed how fast they slapped body cams on all these cops and started getting rid of the bad apples.  

So here's a crazy idea, let's solve a problem before it devolves into riots.


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## Hollie (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Pragmatic is not ignoring a problem until people to think violence is the only way their complaints get addressed.
> 
> People had complained about the LAPD and Darryl Gates for decades.. but after the riots, the problem got fixed.  Gates was gone, and practices were changed.
> 
> ...



Here's a crazy leftist idea; lets make criminal behavior absent any consequences. That's a way to fix things. A strange thing however, we still have looting and criminal behavior. 









						Crime Rampant In Democrat Cities With Beheadings, Shootings
					

While 2021 was the deadliest year the city has seen, Philadelphia is set to surpass last year's record this year.




					thefederalist.com
				




Yeah, Beheadings in Democrat run cities, it's just remarkable how leftists whine and moan about crime, yet, they encourage policies that promote crime.


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You miss the point.  I'm old enough to remember the riots after MLK was assassinated in 1968.  I remember the Rodney King riots of 1992.  The thing is we DON'T fix the problems, and then we wonder why we keep having riots.
> 
> Not a matter of virtue signaling, it's a matter of pragmatism.




The democrats don't want them fixed....they want to be able to order riots every two years......


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## Bob Blaylock (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, no, Mormon Bob, you are the one who wants to murder a black kid for stealing a bag of chips, while giving a pass the white corporate criminal who steals someone's life savings.
> 
> This is what makes you a racist. Not how you treat the "good ones".



  Your lies and delusions do not make me, a racist.  All they show is that you are, in fact, a far worse racist than the most extravagant of your lies try to falsely portray me as being.


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## Bob Blaylock (Sep 22, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So here's a crazy idea, let's solve a problem before it devolves into riots.



  Your _“solution”_ is to allow subhuman criminal shit to prey on human beings, with impunity.  Such a solution does not benefit any human beings, only criminals.

  No actual human being would advocate any of the bullshit that you advocate.  Only a criminal would.

  I call bullshit on any claim that you are a human being.  I call bullshit on any claim that you are anything but a subhuman piece of criminal shit.  This is what you prove, every time you advocate _“solutions”_ that favor criminals, and make human beings into easier prey for them.


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## Jarlaxle (Sep 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I thought that was the attitude of the police when it came to George Floyd, Laquan McDonald, and a host of others.
> 
> And that involved lives.
> 
> ...



The riots could have been avoided...but nobody had the stones to do so.



JoeB131 said:


> You miss the point.  I'm old enough to remember the riots after MLK was assassinated in 1968.  I remember the Rodney King riots of 1992.  The thing is we DON'T fix the problems, and then we wonder why we keep having riots.
> 
> Not a matter of virtue signaling, it's a matter of pragmatism.



The problem was not enough Roof Koreans.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Here's a crazy leftist idea; lets make criminal behavior absent any consequences. That's a way to fix things. A strange thing however, we still have looting and criminal behavior.
> 
> 
> Yeah, Beheadings in Democrat run cities, it's just remarkable how leftists whine and moan about crime, yet, they encourage policies that promote crime.



Yes, yes, the right wing has been getting you to wet your panties over "crimes" since Willie Horton.   We get that.  

We have murder all over the country-  In the suburbs, in the rural areas and in the cities... It's just we hear more about the cities because they have higher concentrations of population. 



2aguy said:


> The democrats don't want them fixed....they want to be able to order riots every two years......



Really? Because it seems to me that it's Republicans who block any attempts to cure poverty, block any civil rights laws, keep pushing the prison industrial complex.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Your _“solution”_ is to allow subhuman criminal shit to prey on human beings, with impunity. Such a solution does not benefit any human beings, only criminals.
> 
> No actual human being would advocate any of the bullshit that you advocate. Only a criminal would.
> 
> I call bullshit on any claim that you are a human being. I call bullshit on any claim that you are anything but a subhuman piece of criminal shit. This is what you prove, every time you advocate _“solutions”_ that favor criminals, and make human beings into easier prey for them.



Bob, the days of black people riding in the back of the bus are over.  They aren't going to put up with this shit anymore.. Period.  Full stop. 

So instead of screaming about the "Criminals" in the only country where this kind of shit happens on a regular basis, let's actually fix the problems. 

We tried your way, of punitively locking poor people up for stealing slices of pizza and tube socks, and that made the problem worse. 

So let's look at what the Europeans are doing... 

Um, they don't let any idiot who wants a gun have one.
They focus their criminal justice system on reform instead of punishment.
They have extensive programs for dealing with poverty.  

They have nowhere near our crime levels.


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## Hollie (Sep 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, yes, the right wing has been getting you to wet your panties over "crimes" since Willie Horton.   We get that.
> 
> We have murder all over the country-  In the suburbs, in the rural areas and in the cities... It's just we hear more about the cities because they have higher concentrations of population.
> 
> ...


Yes, yes. We have beheadings all over the country…. wait, we actually don’t. We do, however, have enormous increases in crime in leftist run cities where criminal behavior is condoned. 









						Analysis: Democrats at the helm of 11 of the 15 deadliest cities in U.S.
					

A TND analysis of the 15 deadliest cities in America discovered that 11 of them are primarily run by Democrats. The National Desk (TND) looked at the party affiliations of mayors, district attorneys, sheriffs and city council members within the nation’s 15 cities which currently hold the highest...




					thenationaldesk.com
				




WASHINGTON (TND) — A TND analysis of the 15 deadliest cities in America discovered that 11 of them are primarily run by Democrats.

The National Desk (TND) looked at the party affiliations of mayors, district attorneys, sheriffs and city council members within the nation’s 15 cities which currently hold the highest murder rates, according to worldpopulationreview.com.

The cities largely run by Democrats are St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans, Detroit, Cleveland, Newark, Chicago, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh.

All but three cities on the list have Democratic mayors. Democratic district attorneys are also in charge of prosecution in 12 of the 15 cities.


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## Hollie (Sep 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Bob, the days of black people riding in the back of the bus are over.  They aren't going to put up with this shit anymore.. Period.  Full stop.
> 
> So instead of screaming about the "Criminals" in the only country where this kind of shit happens on a regular basis, let's actually fix the problems.
> 
> ...



“_Bob, the days of black people riding in the back of the bus are over. They aren't going to put up with this shit anymore.. Period. Full stop.”_

Must be devastating for the democrat “Party of Slavery”. Gee, whiz. Harken back to those halcyon days when democrats had control of those mischievous blacks.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 25, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Yes, yes. We have beheadings all over the country…. wait, we actually don’t. We do, however, have enormous increases in crime in leftist run cities where criminal behavior is condoned.



I had to look up this beheading case you keep whining about. 









						Judge: Man charged with beheading Alton girlfriend unfit to stand trial
					

With treatment, there is a "substantial probability" DeUndreá S. Holloway Jr. could be mentally fit within a year, Judge Neil Schroeder said.




					www.stltoday.com
				




OH, wait, it happened in Alton Missouri, a white trash town in Jesusland.   Why Am I not surprised. 




Hollie said:


> Must be devastating for the democrat “Party of Slavery”. Gee, whiz. Harken back to those halcyon days when democrats had control of those mischievous blacks.



Why would Democrats have a problem with it.  YOur side is the one who screams "SCARY BLACK MAN" whenever there is a crime.


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## Hollie (Sep 25, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I had to look up this beheading case you keep whining about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was quite a sidestep. In the alternate reality of the twisted leftist mindset, Missouri is a “white trash town in Jesusland”. 

That makes no sense but what is to be expected from the twisted, leftist mind?


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## Hollie (Sep 25, 2022)

Leftism. It’s a party. 












						New Orleans leads nation in murders midway through 2022, city analyst says
					

In about one-third of the homicides, police say the perpetrators had relationships with the victim.




					www.nola.com
				




Halfway through the year, an informal survey of nationwide per-capita murder rates shows New Orleans is on pace to reclaim its ranking as the most murderous city in the U.S. — and is leading by a considerable margin.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 26, 2022)

Hollie said:


> That was quite a sidestep. In the alternate reality of the twisted leftist mindset, Missouri is a “white trash town in Jesusland”.
> 
> That makes no sense but what is to be expected from the twisted, leftist mind?



Not at all.  

You claimed that "beheadings" were a sign of Democratic City Decadance...

And yet here was a story of a guy from a small town in a red state who beheaded his pregnant girlfriend. 



Hollie said:


> Halfway through the year, an informal survey of nationwide per-capita murder rates shows New Orleans is on pace to reclaim its ranking as the most murderous city in the U.S. — and is leading by a considerable margin.



Wouldn't this be the same NOLA that nearly got wiped off the map 17 years ago because of Bush Jr.'s incompetence? 
Ah, the good old days when just losing a mere city was the height of presidential incompetence. 
Trump:  "Hold my Beer".


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## Hollie (Sep 26, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not at all.
> 
> You claimed that "beheadings" were a sign of Democratic City Decadance...
> 
> ...


As attempt at analogy goes, that was pure incompetence.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 26, 2022)

Hollie said:


> As attempt at analogy goes, that was pure incompetence.



I'm not the one who whined about "There are beheadings going on"... that was you.  

There are beheadings going on in Jesusland, too.


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## Hollie (Sep 26, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm not the one who whined about "There are beheadings going on"... that was you.
> 
> There are beheadings going on in Jesusland, too.


Why are you whining about natural disasters and equating those to beheadings?

Only in demented leftyland would that make sense.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 26, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Why are you whining about natural disasters and equating those to beheadings?
> 
> Only in demented leftyland would that make sense.



Sorry, you are losing the plot here.  

You said that a beheading in Philadelphia was a emblematic of Democratic Decadence. 

But then there was a more recent beheading in Missouri..  

Oh, both beheadings were committed by white guys...


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## Hollie (Sep 26, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Sorry, you are losing the plot here.
> 
> You said that a beheading in Philadelphia was a emblematic of Democratic Decadence.
> 
> ...


Sorry. You're befuddled.

San Francisco is spelled differently than Philadelphia. That might have been a clue you missed. However, in San Francisco the "white guy" was named Jose Rafael Solano Landaeta.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen. It is appropriate to point and laugh at the leftist.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 27, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Sorry. You're befuddled.
> 
> San Francisco is spelled differently than Philadelphia. That might have been a clue you missed. However, in San Francisco the "white guy" was named Jose Rafael Solano Landaeta.
> 
> Yes, ladies and gentlemen. It is appropriate to point and laugh at the leftist.



Your post cited Philadelphia, not San Francisco.  IN fact, your link made no reference to a beheading at all... I usually don't read right wing links because they are dishonest. 

So you had beheadings in blue cities and red towns... because we don't treat mental illness in this country... But don't worry, more guns will solve the problem as long as no one burns a pot roast.


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## Hollie (Sep 27, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Your post cited Philadelphia, not San Francisco.  IN fact, your link made no reference to a beheading at all... I usually don't read right wing links because they are dishonest.
> 
> So you had beheadings in blue cities and red towns... because we don't treat mental illness in this country... But don't worry, more guns will solve the problem as long as no one burns a pot roast.


Oh, dear. Your tender sensibilities were offended. I'm sure you would prefer your news from leftist outlets that censor the news so as not to confuse you with what you're not entitled to know. But don't worry, you make the perfect audience for letist media. Censorship will solve everything.


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 27, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Oh, dear. Your tender sensibilities were offended. I'm sure you would prefer your news from leftist outlets that censor the news so as not to confuse you with what you're not entitled to know. But don't worry, you make the perfect audience for letist media. Censorship will solve everything.



Not at all.  The problem with right wing sources is that they are all sorts of crazy. 

The Epoch Times is run by the Falun Gong Cult. The Washington times is run by the Moonies.  The blaze is run by Glenn Beck.  

Say what you want about the MSM, they are run by big corporations, and big corporations have quality control.


----------



## Hollie (Sep 27, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not at all.  The problem with right wing sources is that they are all sorts of crazy.
> 
> The Epoch Times is run by the Falun Gong Cult. The Washington times is run by the Moonies.  The blaze is run by Glenn Beck.
> 
> Say what you want about the MSM, they are run by big corporations, and big corporations have quality control.


Not surprising that a leftist would whine about "Right wing sources" when news in the MSM is in collusion with the leftist democrat cult.

Whine to us about "Russian disinformation". Do you pray at the altar of Nina Jankowicz?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 27, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Not surprising that a leftist would whine about "Right wing sources" when news in the MSM is in collusion with the leftist democrat cult.
> 
> Whine to us about "Russian disinformation". Do you pray at the altar of Nina Jankowicz?



Uh, yeah, how many of them are owned by foreign cults?  Because I can think of two right wing ones that are.


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## Hollie (Sep 27, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, yeah, how many of them are owned by foreign cults?  Because I can think of two right wing ones that are.


Uh, yeah, you spend your life immersed in conspiracy theories.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 27, 2022)

Hollie said:


> Uh, yeah, you spend your life immersed in conspiracy theories.



It ain't a conspiracy if they are doing it in the open, dummy.


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## Hollie (Sep 27, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> It ain't a conspiracy if they are doing it in the open, dummy.


Yours is a conspiracy theory that frantic leftists need to press.


----------

