# All the fire in hell is too little punishment for what we do...



## José (Nov 12, 2009)

*to the other sentient beings that share the planet with us.*

I dare you to watch this video. 

One has to be made of steel to hold off the tears.

[youtube]-Uz80zTMO40[/youtube]​


----------



## KittenKoder (Nov 12, 2009)

Jose ... this is a good topic, thanks for being human this morning.


----------



## José (Nov 13, 2009)

> Originally posted by *KittenKoder*
> Jose ... this is a good topic, thanks for being human this morning.



I'm glad you enjoyed the video, kitten : )

I forgot to include some basic info about this wonderful, life-chanching flick:

*Powder (film)

Powder is a 1995 film directed by Victor Salva, about a boy, nicknamed "Powder", with incredible intellect, telepathy, and paranormal powers. It stars Sean Patrick Flanery in the title role, with Jeff Goldblum, Mary Steenburgen, Bradford Tatum, Lance Henriksen, and Brandon Smith in supporting roles.

The film questions the limits of the human mind and body while also displaying their capacity for cruelty, and the hope that humanity will advance to a state of better understanding.
*
Powder (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Luissa (Nov 13, 2009)

I love the movie Powder.


----------



## eots (Nov 13, 2009)

but dude its deer season..don't be such a kill joy..grab yer self a bow and get yourself some good organic meat...do it with respect and reverence... and it is spiritual its how we lived thousands of years


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 13, 2009)

Your use of the word _*sentient*_ in this application is subjective and controversial at best.
While I can't view the clip on this computer subsequent posters (and yourself) have indicated it's from the movie _Powder_.  The scene you are referring to was specifically set up by the director as a back drop showing his vision of good versus evil.  Painting the hunters in that specific light provides the contrast between the protagonist and the antagonists.  It's cinematic manipulation that has little basis in reality, i.e. science fiction.


----------



## José (Nov 13, 2009)

> Originally posted by *eots*
> do it with respect and reverence...



Sure...

Nothing beats the fascinating experience of being shot and killed with respect and reverence...

It gives your dying moments a whole new meaning no matter how agonizing your death may be.


----------



## José (Nov 13, 2009)

People,

What kind of callous, cold hearted person don't empathise with a creature that didn't do any harm to anybody having their internal organs shattered by an act of violence and meeting death with excrutiating pain and suffering like the deer portrayed in the movie?

Or better yet:

How can any sane person consider this paroxysm of gratuitous brutality their idea of fun?

What kind of monster are you all?


----------



## eots (Nov 13, 2009)

José;1713732 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *eots*
> > do it with respect and reverence...
> 
> 
> ...



it is called nature..and we are supposed to be a part of it..I have infinitely more respect for a person that slays a beast with respect and eyes wide open than some hypocrite that hides from the reality and purchases meat raised in unnatural conditions and with a death without reverence but sheds tears over Bambi meeting his destiny


----------



## eots (Nov 13, 2009)

José;1713734 said:
			
		

> People,
> 
> What kind of callous, cold hearted person don't empathise with a creature that didn't do any harm to anybody having their internal organs shattered by an act of violence and meeting death with excrutiating pain and suffering like the deer portrayed in the movie?
> 
> ...



it is not about....fun


----------



## froggy (Nov 13, 2009)

José;1713734 said:
			
		

> People,
> 
> What kind of callous, cold hearted person don't empathise with a creature that didn't do any harm to anybody having their internal organs shattered by an act of violence and meeting death with excrutiating pain and suffering like the deer portrayed in the movie?
> 
> ...



Sounds like what was done to Jesus Christ.


----------



## AV8R (Nov 13, 2009)

José;1708658 said:
			
		

> *to the other sentient beings that share the planet with us.*I dare you to watch this video. One has to be made of steel to hold off the tears.


It would probably help if you explained the clip and it's reasons you posted it. I've never seen this movie but it looks like just another anti gun diatribe.

No tears were shed, I guess that makes me *inhuman?*

FYI: IMDB.com states the director is a convicted child molester. Tell us, should that have any effect on our opinions about the movie?

imdb.com/title/tt0114168/


----------



## José (Nov 13, 2009)

> Originally posted by *eots*
> I have infinitely more respect for a person that slays a beast with respect and eyes wide open...



Of course you do.

There's nothing like being on the safe side of a gun to inspire "respect" for brutalities committed against others.

"You do the dying I'll do the talking"... Talk about being a hypocrite.


----------



## José (Nov 13, 2009)

> Originally posted by *AV8R*
> FYI: IMDB.com states the director is a convicted child molester. Tell us, should that have any effect on our opinions about the movie?



No more than the effect the real nature of the relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene should have on our opinions about the Sermon on the Mount.

Salva's sex life is as relevant to the message of his flick as Jesus' to his moral teachings.


----------



## eots (Nov 13, 2009)

José;1714049 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *AV8R*
> > FYI: IMDB.com states the director is a convicted child molester. Tell us, should that have any effect on our opinions about the movie?
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus ate meat..


----------



## eots (Nov 13, 2009)

José;1714043 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *eots*
> > I have infinitely more respect for a person that slays a beast with respect and eyes wide open...
> 
> 
> ...



you have no clue..anymore than your sick limp wristed director who no doubt felt picked on like _poor little powder _because he was so _special _when in fact it was because he was indeed a _freak..._there is a beauty and harmony in nature .. the hunt..the gather..the harvest you are clearly detached from


----------



## José (Nov 13, 2009)

Ok then buddy...

Human beings differ from most other biological entities for their ability to feel empathy for strangers and even members of other species. But individually considered, humans clearly have varying degrees of empathy raging from almost total indiference to strong commiseration.

My opposition to hunting is a way of feeling much more than a way of thinking. That's why the clip I chose transmits an emotional message rather than a rational one.

Inasmuch as we cannot share directly our emotional states through language this debate is a big waste of time and has already run its course.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 14, 2009)

José;1713734 said:
			
		

> People,
> 
> What kind of callous, cold hearted person don't empathise with a creature that didn't do any harm to anybody having their internal organs shattered by an act of violence and meeting death with excrutiating pain and suffering like the deer portrayed in the movie?
> 
> ...



So what you are saying is you are seriously into anthropomorphism.


----------



## José (Nov 14, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> So what you are saying is you are seriously into anthropomorphism.



Ringel, 

I didn't reply to your first post because I just couldn't believe you were speaking seriously and now I'm shocked to realize you were.

Do you realy think higher anymals like dogs, cats and pigs are not sentient beings?

In other words, do you really think mamals don't have the ability to experience pleasure and pain?

This statement borders on total insanity, buddy.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2009)

José;1716848 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> > So what you are saying is you are seriously into anthropomorphism.
> 
> 
> ...



The first was a rational response based on fact, figured that was the reason you ignored it.  The second was a rational assessment based on fact from reading your subsequent posts.  This one is a rational response based on your response to me - Get professional help.


----------



## José (Nov 16, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> The first was a rational response based on fact, figured that was the reason you ignored it. The second was a rational assessment based on fact from reading your subsequent posts. This one is a rational response based on your response to me - Get professional help.



*TRANSLATION:

I got my anus stuffed by José's man meat and it's bleeding and hurts like hell!!*


----------



## José (Nov 16, 2009)

See, this is the only resentment I have towards this Board.

Everybody mocks my two red stars and the fact that I have -6500 reputation points:

*Elvis, Ravi, Echo Zulu, Dogbert etc, etc...*

But they all seem to be willfully ignorant of the fact that these two red blots do not prevent me from consistently distributing *MAJOR ASSKICKINGS* since I joined this Message Board in 2004.

And I repeat, *MAJOR ASSKICKINGS*, like the one you just saw me inflicting on the poster Ringel05.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1720472 said:
			
		

> See, this is the only resentment I have towards this Board.
> 
> Everybody mocks my two red stars and the fact that I have -6500 reputation points:
> 
> ...


only in your own puny mind
asswipe


----------



## KittenKoder (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1720472 said:
			
		

> See, this is the only resentment I have towards this Board.
> 
> Everybody mocks my two red stars and the fact that I have -6500 reputation points:
> 
> ...



Rep isn't important to those secure in themselves, so you get credit for that. But if that's what you call an "asskicking" ... you are seriously lame.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> José;1720472 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey, he's a winner on the interwebs, dont ya know?



he'll tell you himself


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> José;1720472 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey, he's a winner on the interwebs, dont ya know?



he'll tell you himself


----------



## sitarro (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1713734 said:
			
		

> People,
> 
> What kind of callous, cold hearted person don't empathise with a creature that didn't do any harm to anybody having their internal organs shattered by an act of violence and meeting death with excrutiating pain and suffering like the deer portrayed in the movie?
> 
> ...



So what do you have to say to wolves that gang up on a single deer nipping at it's legs until it is too wounded to run any longer, they then start ripping it apart starting with the area of easiest access, the asshole. The deer gets to feel all of that extended agony. How about the mountain lion that jumps onto the deers back plunging its claws into the flesh ripping it apart until it drops then suffocating the suffering prey by locking it's jaws around the windpipe.........  sounds like it's man that provides the deer, which is obviously a prey animal, the least amount of suffering with the shock and quickness of a high powered bullet through the heart........ and I'm not even into hunting, hate the taste of wild game with the exception of elk steak, that is pretty damn good. The fact of the matter is, with the population of humans destroying the natural hunting ground of wolves and mountain lions, the deer population grows to the point where they die from disease or struck by vehicles....... is that a better way for them to die?


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1720472 said:
			
		

> See, this is the only resentment I have towards this Board.
> 
> Everybody mocks my two red stars and the fact that I have -6500 reputation points:
> 
> ...



   Ok Skippy.  You are delusional and you do need serious help.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1720471 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> > The first was a rational response based on fact, figured that was the reason you ignored it. The second was a rational assessment based on fact from reading your subsequent posts. This one is a rational response based on your response to me - Get professional help.
> 
> 
> ...



In truth what you just wrote here was "I'm fucking myself to hard and I love it."  Figure out how to use sentence structure when you're trying to make fun of someone so it doesn't backfire.  This one definitely backfired, no question about it.


----------



## uscitizen (Nov 16, 2009)

froggy said:


> José;1713734 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus was not special in his punishment.  It was a commopn form of execution/punishment back then.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1711787 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *KittenKoder*
> > Jose ... this is a good topic, thanks for being human this morning.
> 
> 
> ...



 It doesn't only display our capacity for cruelty, although it is an overriding theme, it offers redemption as well.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1714043 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *eots*
> > I have infinitely more respect for a person that slays a beast with respect and eyes wide open...
> 
> 
> ...



 Ok, so full disclosure: Are you a carnivore? Do you eat meat? Do you eat VEAL? Eots has a point. The people depicted in the vid had issues of brutality towards each other, "man being wolf to man," [Bartolomeo Vanzetti] independent of the hunt that reinforces your view, and the attitude of the hunters also reinforces your view. But as a stand alone condemnation of all hunters? Not so much, especially if one treks to the grocery store to buy prepackaged animals that were slaughtered by someone else. At best, at that point, you are only a smidge removed from those who hunt for food.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1708658 said:
			
		

> *to the other sentient beings that share the planet with us.*
> 
> I dare you to watch this video.
> 
> ...



so you're a vegan?


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Nov 16, 2009)

It's a MOVIE.

Ever heard the expression "willful suspension of disbelief"?


----------



## uscitizen (Nov 16, 2009)

More and more of our "reality" seems to come from the tube.

sigh...


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1720471 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> > The first was a rational response based on fact, figured that was the reason you ignored it. The second was a rational assessment based on fact from reading your subsequent posts. This one is a rational response based on your response to me - Get professional help.
> 
> 
> ...



 Really? You devolve rather quickly for a sentient being.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> More and more of our "reality" seems to come from the tube.
> 
> sigh...



 Film is an art form, a method of delivering social commentary / criticism / approbation.


----------



## uscitizen (Nov 16, 2009)

Barb said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > More and more of our "reality" seems to come from the tube.
> ...



It is also a way of programming the masses.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Nov 16, 2009)

Barb said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > More and more of our "reality" seems to come from the tube.
> ...



I don't want any of that shit when i go to a movie.

I want to be entertained.  period.

So lose the social commentary and blow something up.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



 That too, it is a method of communication that gets lots of attention. You too can make a film that, if well made, could sway others to your point of view. If you had the talent, could you resist that?


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



 Films that "blow something up" also contain emotional manipulation. But hell, have fun anyway.


----------



## uscitizen (Nov 16, 2009)

Barb said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



Yes.
People need to decide for themselves, not be told what to think and how to live.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Nov 16, 2009)

Barb said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.


----------



## xsited1 (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1708658 said:
			
		

> *to the other sentient beings that share the planet with us.*
> 
> I dare you to watch this video.
> 
> ...



OMG, that kid is white and has no hair!  He's like Michael Jackson, and we all know how he turned out.  How horrible!


----------



## uscitizen (Nov 16, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



He blew up?  Maybe I should watch that movie.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Nov 16, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



skip to the end the whole rest of the movie was emo pap so thick as to gag you.


----------



## uscitizen (Nov 16, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



I always figured it for a chick flick.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



 There is a difference between persuasion and dictation. While it is good to recognize manipulation, to see what the underlying message is, the intent behind it, and if possible the history of the person conveying it, it is still you who must decide if you agree with any of it, and up to you to exercise your free will.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



 So what is your favorite "blow something up" movie?


----------



## uscitizen (Nov 16, 2009)

Barb said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



Yes but with most it is easier to follow the will of the tube.  I am dealing in reality on this not idealism.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Nov 16, 2009)

10 Most Awesome Movie Explosions Of All Time Ever - Film School Rejects

so hard to choose just one.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

uscitizen said:


> Barb said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



 Pfft. "For most." Deal with your own reality.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> 10 Most Awesome Movie Explosions Of All Time Ever - Film School Rejects
> 
> so hard to choose just one.



 With the possible exceptions of the ones I didn't see (Spaceballs, The Hurt Locker, Stealth, and Chain reaction) all of them contain a message, and the explosions are timed with the music for MAX reinforcement of the message. I loved V For Vendetta! Still, it is one of THEE most manipulative films in existence.


----------



## José (Nov 16, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Barb*
> Ok, so full disclosure: Are you a carnivore? Do you eat meat? Do you eat VEAL?





> Originally posted by *Skull Pilot*
> so you're a vegan?



I managed to eliminate meat from my menu from Monday to Saturday evening. And I prefer to cook my own "special" veg food during the weekends.

But every now and then I feel a dire urge to order chinese or pizza on Saturday nights. But I always feel so bad that sometimes I end up throwing nearly half the food away.

Before you post a message calling me a hypocrite (and I am indeed to a certain extent) stop for a moment and think about this:

It's dishonesty to try to invalidate my argument just because I haven't managed to become a full vegetarian yet.


----------



## José (Nov 16, 2009)

I will reply to the points raised by Sitarro when I get home.


----------



## Barb (Nov 16, 2009)

José;1721173 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Barb*
> > Ok, so full disclosure: Are you a carnivore? Do you eat meat? Do you eat VEAL?
> 
> 
> ...



 Oddly enough, I didn't call you a hypocrite. Putting words in my mouth or intent to my words seems to be a trend today. Nor did I attempt to invalidate your "argument" (although I don't see where you made one) but to temper your statement with a little reality.


----------



## José (Nov 17, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Barb*
> Oddly enough, I didn't call you a hypocrite. Putting words in my mouth or intent to my words seems to be a trend today. Nor did I attempt to invalidate your "argument" (although I don't see where you made one) but to temper your statement with a little reality.



Ok Barb... 

You see, that's precisely why I named this thread "All the fire in Hell is too little punishment for what *WE (José included)* do..." and not "for what *YOU hunters, slaughterhouse employees and meat eaters do*..."

I exposed my argument briefly (post 17) but don't bother, it's better explained below.


----------



## José (Nov 17, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Sitarro*
> So what do you have to say to wolves that gang up on a single deer nipping at it's legs until it is too wounded to run any longer, they then start ripping it apart starting with the area of easiest access, the asshole. The deer gets to feel all of that extended agony. How about the mountain lion that jumps onto the deers back plunging its claws into the flesh ripping it apart until it drops then suffocating the suffering prey by locking it's jaws around the windpipe......... sounds like it's man that provides the deer, which is obviously a prey animal, the least amount of suffering with the shock and quickness of a high powered bullet through the heart........ and I'm not even into hunting, hate the taste of wild game with the exception of elk steak, that is pretty damn good. The fact of the matter is, with the population of humans destroying the natural hunting ground of wolves and mountain lions, the deer population grows to the point where they die from disease or struck by vehicles....... is that a better way for them to die?



Check this out:



> Originally posted by *Eve*
> Good heart shot, so he didn't run down to the deepest ravine as they often do for a farewell joke.



By "farewell joke" she means several minutes of excruciating pain, Sitarro. And medical science says that victims of cardiac arrest can survive for up to 15 seconds.

Anyway the suffering imposed on the animal is just half of the equation. You are also violently abbreviating the life of a healthy, often young individual.

And there are several non lethal ways of keeping animal population under control.

But these are just small, unimportant asides, Sitarro. I will address the heart of your message (and eots') in my next post.


----------



## JW Frogen (Nov 17, 2009)

José;1721174 said:
			
		

> I will reply to the points raised by Sitarro when I get home.



That has been my life's motto.


----------



## José (Nov 17, 2009)

> Originally posted by *eots*
> some hypocrite... that sheds tears over Bambi meeting his destiny



It may come as a shock to you, eots, but our prehistoric ancestors you admire so much also "*shed tears over Bambi meeting his destiny*".

Eots mentioned the fact that hunting was part of our ancestors' life for thousands of years. But what eots probably doesn't know is that Mr. Caveman also had a troubled conscience just like so many of us today. Anthropologists all over the world have already catalogued thousands of fables created by Stone Age peoples to deal with the moral repercussions of hunting.

Bushmen in the Kalahari Desert say a prayer in front of the slain antelope asking the animal to forgive them and then introduce their saliva into the wound in order to "free its soul".

Natives from Vanuatu believe that the main goal in the life of an animal is to feed humans. They believe animals crave to become their next meal and they are in fact doing them a favor by hunting them. (I wonder how they rationalise the fact that they all desperately run for their lives at the sight of them).

African tribes, indians in the Americas, aborigines in Australia and Papua... you name it...

There are literally tens of thousands of myths, legends and rituals created by prehistoric peoples to relieve the burden of conscience that results from hunting. They are primitive attempts to rationalise the pain and premature death they impose on those creatures.

So what eots said, rather than invalidating my point, reinforces it:

*While wolves and mountain lions only show empathy for their offspring, you cannot be a rational being without displaying some degree of empathy for other living creatures.* 

The moment we became humans, thousands of years ago in the African savannah, was the moment we started feeling compassion towards others. Empathy for other living creatures is a natural outgrowth of our ability to create abstract moral concepts such as good and evil, just and unjust etc...It's a natural outgrowth of our ability to understand rationally that life and pleasure is good while death, pain and suffering is bad for other sentient beings like us. 

You cannot suppress our tendency to feel empathy any more than you can suppress our ability to walk upright because it's part of the whole rationality package we developed thousands of years ago. 

Take away our ability to reason... Turn us into mountain lions, into wolves and we'll immediatelly stop feeling empathy for other creatures. That's the only way to do it.

Now, I have no problem admitting that human beings show varying degrees of empathy towards strangers and other forms of life:

You have people, like KittenKoder, who have a lot of compassion for the suffering of animals.

You have people, like eots, who have less empathy for the suffering they endure and their lives being abbreviated.

You also have people who are totally unable to feel any empathy for dying animals, strangers or even their own family members. Psychiatry calls these individuals psychopaths.

Some people have more, some people have less but only mentally ill individuals have no empathy at all for the suffering of others.

Please, notice that I'm not disagreeing with anything you said about predation and the suffering of prey animals as being part of Nature's plan for life on Earth, Sitarro. I'm simply stating:

*We are not mountain lions, we are human beings and due to our rationality we cannot avoid feeling empathy everytime we see a living being enduring any kind of suffering. It's something that is hardwired into what we are.
*


----------



## José (Nov 17, 2009)

As I demonstrated above, since our species appeared on this planet there has been an uneasy coexistence, a tense relationship between the slaughter of animals and our capacity to feel empathy for all living creatures.

I hope, and this is not a prediction, only a hope, I hope that someday in the future our sense of compassion will eventually triumph over our predatory tradition.

I hope that someday the slaughter of animals will become only a sad, distant memory of the brutal way our ancestors used to live.


----------



## JW Frogen (Nov 17, 2009)

Jose' if you were a sexy woman I could agree with all that.

But you are not.

So I do not.

Any sexy women want to agree with Jose'?


----------



## eots (Nov 17, 2009)

José;1723719 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *eots*
> > some hypocrite... that sheds tears over Bambi meeting his destiny
> 
> 
> ...



yes a quick clean kill is important...


----------



## JW Frogen (Nov 17, 2009)

eots said:


> yes a quick clean kill is important...



You either in a bad marriage or work for Tyson foods.


----------



## KittenKoder (Nov 17, 2009)

JW Frogen said:


> Jose' if you were a sexy woman I could agree with all that.
> 
> But you are not.
> 
> ...



Not me, I'm an omnivore like I was created ... if it's digestible, I'll eat it ... love my meats to.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 17, 2009)

José;1723719 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *eots*
> > some hypocrite... that sheds tears over Bambi meeting his destiny
> 
> 
> ...



Finally you make a rational, well thought out argument as opposed to a simple emotive flame based on a scripted movie scene.


----------



## José (Nov 18, 2009)

> Originally posted by *José*
> You have people, like KittenKoder, who have a lot of compassion for the suffering of animals.





> Originally posted by *KittenKoder*
> Not me, I'm an omnivore like I was created ... if it's digestible, I'll eat it ... love my meats to.



That was a big disappointment, kitten : (

Your nick and av led me to believe you cared for all animals. Aren't you a follower of an ancient Egyptian cult that worships felines or something?

Anyway, my sister is a fanatic cat lover (just like you?). I showed her your av. but not that  cybernetic, robotic cat you use now. I showed her that little kitten typing frantically on his computer. She loved him so much she even asked me to look for a bigger gif on the Net.

He was really cute. You shouldn't have discarded him : (


----------



## José (Nov 18, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> Finally you make a rational, well thought out argument as opposed to a simple emotive flame based on a scripted movie scene.



Thanks, Ringel... I think...

You see... I just have to watch a wildlife documentary to conclude that Sitarro is right on the money when he says Nature has no problem at all with brutality, suffering, pain...

Nature (or God if you prefer to call it so) has no problem with a pack of african wild dogs eating a wildebeest alive, no problem with a lion killing all the cubs of the former leader of the pride, no problem with young hyenas killing their siblings to eliminate future rivals etc, etc, etc...

The whole problem lies in our ability to reason and show empathic concern for others. 

We are the only species on Earth that has the ability to pass moral judgements on Nature.

Rationality/Moral reasoning gave us the unique ability to repudiate and disregard Nature whenever it clashes with our moral bearings and commiseration for the suffering of another creature.


----------



## Douger (Nov 18, 2009)

It's interesting to see how them thar 'publicaNtz act when confronted with truth.
Big bad hillbilly dun got skeereded.
By Boy George !


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 18, 2009)

Douger said:


> It's interesting to see how them thar 'publicaNtz act when confronted with truth.
> Big bad hillbilly dun got skeereded.
> By Boy George !


----------



## Si modo (Nov 18, 2009)

JW Frogen said:


> Jose' if you were a sexy woman I could agree with all that.
> 
> But you are not.
> 
> ...


Can I agree with you?


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 18, 2009)

Ringel05 said:


> Douger said:
> 
> 
> > It's interesting to see how them thar 'publicaNtz act when confronted with truth.
> ...


another delusion leftist

but you got all there was to get from that post


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 18, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Douger said:
> ...



I haven't a clue as to what he meant.  Maybe it's some cryptic message for Juan, only The Shadow knows.  Which leads me again to:


----------



## Si modo (Nov 18, 2009)

José;1727007 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> > Finally you make a rational, well thought out argument as opposed to a simple emotive flame based on a scripted movie scene.
> 
> 
> ...


I think the Moon aligned with Mars and a wormhole opened up, sucking me into an alternate universe.  That's a good post.


----------



## José (Nov 19, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Ringel*





> Originally posted by *Divecon*
> another delusion leftist
> 
> but you got all there was to get from that post



LOL, Ringel, Divecon...

As Sunni would say:

*Does anyone have a "babble to english" translation book?

So we can understand what Douger is trying to say?
*

   

Sorry, Douger, just kidding. But if you do intend to get your message across try to be less cryptic next time.


----------



## José (Nov 19, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Simodo*
> I think the Moon aligned with Mars and a wormhole opened up, sucking me into an alternate universe. That's a good post.



I see. 

It takes a parallel universe predicted by the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics for me to post something good.

How nice ; )


----------



## José (Nov 19, 2009)

> Originally posted by *Skull Pilot*
> the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.





> Originally posted by *Skull Pilot*
> skip to the end the whole rest of the movie was emo pap so thick as to gag you.



tsk, tsk, tsk...

Skull Pilot definitely has the sensibility of a rhino. Far from being "emo pap" Powder is easily  one of the most extraordinary movies of the last century.

By establishing an "extra-sensorial bridge" between the hunter and the dying deer, Powder was  able to awaken the latent empathy that is hardwired into all mentally sane human beings.

All the rationalizations he had created to shield himself from remorse (*"The animal doesn't feel  a thing!! BLAH, BLAH, BLAH"*) were utterly destroyed in that moment of interaction with the  animal's agony. During those few moments his subjective isolation was broken and he could share all the suffering he had imposed on the animal.

There's no other way to put it:

Absolutely wonderful.


----------



## José (Nov 19, 2009)

And Powder's "explosion" at the end is not meaningless by any stretch of the imagination.

He got so disillusioned with all the primitivism and brutality of human society that he decided to withdraw from it and become one with the universe in accordance with Einstein's idea that  matter and energy are one and the same thing, matter being nothing but frozen energy.

What can we say about a movie like this, people?

The English language lacks enough complimentary adjectives do describe Powder.


----------



## José (Nov 19, 2009)

I searched the net for the part when the hunter talks about his experience but all I could find  was a bigger part of the movie.

But you just have to watch the first 1 min 42.

[youtube]ADJCgn-Dpw0[/youtube]​


----------



## José (Nov 19, 2009)

On a hunting trip with his schoolmates, Powder is threatened with a gun by John Box, an  aggressive student who views him as a freak. Before John can shoot, a gun goes off in the  distance and everyone rushes to see that Harley, a sheriff's deputy who is hunting with the boys, has shot a doe which is now dying. Anguished by the animal's death, Powder touches the deer and Harley, inducing in Harley what the students assume is a seizure. *Harley later reveals that Powder had caused him to feel the pain and fear of the dying deer, and he cannot bring himself to wield a gun anymore because of this, although he hates Powder for doing this to him.*

Powder (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## SFC Ollie (Nov 19, 2009)




----------



## Fenris Wolf (Mar 28, 2010)

You are drawing conclusions from a fictional movie that doesn't give you the full scope or the experience to make a judgment on something that is normal and everyday to most of us here. I'm sure animals feel fear and pain, and it doesn't make me feel guilty. I've been hunting for many years and have yet to be turned away from it. I do chest shots on bucks and head shots on antler-less deer. I was inspired to do head shots at a young age, after almost losing one that ran a hundred yards or so without leaving a drop of blood. It has nothing to do with a humane kill as much as it is about convenience for myself. If you hunt hard it's natural to revel in the kill, hell the endorphins are pumping hard enough to make your head explode when you drop one. Hunting for me is about supplementing my food supply, it cost me roughly about $1.00/deer.
 Besides hunting, I use wood to heat my home, raise cattle, gather fruit, nuts, and mushrooms, and I occasionally garden to help get my family and myself by. It's a lifestyle for those of us who murder animals for food and we're comfortable with it, just like your way is a lifestyle that is comfortable to you. By the way I am not christian so I don't think I'll be burning in hell.


----------



## AllieBaba (Mar 28, 2010)

José;1716848 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Ringel05*
> > So what you are saying is you are seriously into anthropomorphism.
> 
> 
> ...



Dogs, cats and pigs all have been known to kill for fun, btw.


----------



## AllieBaba (Mar 28, 2010)

José;1731563 said:
			
		

> And Powder's "explosion" at the end is not meaningless by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> He got so disillusioned with all the primitivism and brutality of human society that he decided to withdraw from it and become one with the universe in accordance with Einstein's idea that  matter and energy are one and the same thing, matter being nothing but frozen energy.
> 
> ...



What I say is this...isn't it wonderful that we have become such efficient killing machines that we don't have to devote any time to hunting out own food. The fact that we don't means we  have lots of time to sit around and think up stupid shit.


----------



## froggy (Mar 28, 2010)

But which part were we suppose to burst into tears?


----------



## AllieBaba (Mar 28, 2010)

Jose needs to spend a week in the real fucking world is all I can say.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Mar 28, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> Jose needs to spend a week in the real fucking world is all I can say.



Naw, he just needs to stop sniffing powder.


----------



## slackjawed (Mar 28, 2010)

José;1721173 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Barb*
> > Ok, so full disclosure: Are you a carnivore? Do you eat meat? Do you eat VEAL?
> 
> 
> ...



As a lifelong meat eater and hunter, I find the fact that you waste the meat by throwing it away an extreme sign of disrespect for the animals that were killed for your meal.

How hypocritical!


----------

