# Why is Eli Manning not considered not a average QB?



## fbj

First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years


So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?


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## TheOldSchool

If someone told me that my Redskins would get a quarter who would miss the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, lead the league in interceptions, start a season 0-6, miss the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, and win the Superbowl 2 TIMES... I would jump for joy and take that offer a million out of a million times!

Or would you rather have Jim Kelly?


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## fbj

TheOldSchool said:


> If someone told me that my Redskins would get a quarter who would miss the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, lead the league in interceptions, start a season 0-6, miss the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, and win the Superbowl 2 TIMES... I would jump for joy and take that offer a million out of a million times!
> 
> Or would you rather have Jim Kelly?




You can't count the 1st SB for obvious reasons.      And I guess a QB can play like crap after winning the SB


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## TheOldSchool

fbj said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone told me that my Redskins would get a quarter who would miss the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, lead the league in interceptions, start a season 0-6, miss the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, and win the Superbowl 2 TIMES... I would jump for joy and take that offer a million out of a million times!
> 
> Or would you rather have Jim Kelly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't count the 1st SB for obvious reasons.      And I guess a QB can play like crap after winning the SB
Click to expand...


Eli has had one of the most successful careers of any football player.  What you're saying about his first Superbowl is completely silly.

And this is from a REDSKINS fan!  I freaking HATE the slimy little weasel


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## fbj

TheOldSchool said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone told me that my Redskins would get a quarter who would miss the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, lead the league in interceptions, start a season 0-6, miss the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, and win the Superbowl 2 TIMES... I would jump for joy and take that offer a million out of a million times!
> 
> Or would you rather have Jim Kelly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't count the 1st SB for obvious reasons.      And I guess a QB can play like crap after winning the SB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli has had one of the most successful careers of any football player.  What you're saying about his first Superbowl is completely silly.
> 
> And this is from a REDSKINS fan!  I freaking HATE the slimy little weasel
Click to expand...



you would take ELI over RG3?


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## TheOldSchool

fbj said:


> TheOldSchool said:
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> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't count the 1st SB for obvious reasons.      And I guess a QB can play like crap after winning the SB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eli has had one of the most successful careers of any football player.  What you're saying about his first Superbowl is completely silly.
> 
> And this is from a REDSKINS fan!  I freaking HATE the slimy little weasel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you would take ELI over RG3?
Click to expand...


If RG3 retires with the exact same career stats and achievements as Eli Manning there will be a painting of him over my mantle for as long as I live.


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## rightwinger

Eli Manning has a historic win. When the greatest wins and biggest Superbowl upsets are discussed 50 years from now. Elis name will come up. He defeated what would have been the greatest team of all time and he did it in spectacular fashion

Not many QBs with two Super Bowl wins are not in the HOF. Eli will make the Hall

You want a stat?

Eli is 8-4 in playoff games. Not many HOF QBs have a better winning percentage

But Eli has been an underdog in seven playoff games. In those seven games, his record is 7-0. These are not just playoff games that he was a one or two point underdog. In four of those games he was over a 7 point underdog (14 point underdog in the SB).
Eli Manning has beaten both an 18-0 team and 15-1 team in the playoffs. No other QB will ever match that

Eli may be the most clutch big game QB in history. In a big game with everything on the line, I would take Eli over Peyton every time


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## WinterBorn

I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?


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## WinterBorn

I did a quick search for Eli Mannings stats and found this on Wiki:

"Manning holds Giants franchise records for most passing yards, touchdown passes and completed passes in a career,[2] and the NFL record for most fourth-quarter touchdown passes in a season. He led the Giants to victory in Super Bowl XLII and Super Bowl XLVI, defeating the New England Patriots in both games. Manning was also named Most Valuable Player in each Super Bowl, becoming one of five quarterbacks in history to have been given this honor twice. He is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw for more than 4,900 yards and win the Super Bowl in the same season."

Now granted, Wiki can be corrupted.  So if those stats are not accurate, feel free to explain how.

But if they are accurate, he looks like a pretty solid QB to me.


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## GHook93

2 superbowl rings and one of the most clutch post-season QB in NFL history.  Not to mention he lead the victory over arguably the best QB in NFL history (Brady)!


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## rightwinger

Eli Manning is the reason that:

- The Patriots are not considered the greatest team of all time
-  Bill Belechik is not the greatest coach
- Tom Brady is not the greatest QB


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## WinterBorn

GHook93 said:


> 2 superbowl rings and one of the most clutch post-season QB in NFL history.  Not to mention he lead the victory over arguably the best QB in NFL history (Brady)!



I admit I am much more of a college football fan, and don't watch a lot of NFL ball, but Eli's stats look pretty good to me too.


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## JimH52

I would say a QB who has two Super Bowls is more than an average QB.  I think he will prove it again this year.


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## JimH52

fbj said:


> TheOldSchool said:
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> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't count the 1st SB for obvious reasons.      And I guess a QB can play like crap after winning the SB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eli has had one of the most successful careers of any football player.  What you're saying about his first Superbowl is completely silly.
> 
> And this is from a REDSKINS fan!  I freaking HATE the slimy little weasel
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you would take ELI over RG3?
Click to expand...


You mean RG_allaboutme?


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## JimH52

rightwinger said:


> Eli Manning is the reason that:
> 
> - The Patriots are not considered the greatest team of all time
> -  Bill Belechik is not the greatest coach
> - Tom Brady is not the greatest QB



And for that I am thankful to him.


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## WinterBorn

I'm still curious about the obvious reasons that Eli's first SB shouldn't count.


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## Circle_Breaker

Why can't you count the first superbowl? Eli balled out during those playoffs.


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## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?




He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.

That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd


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## fbj

Circle_Breaker said:


> Why can't you count the first superbowl? Eli balled out during those playoffs.



The lucky david tyree catched that bailed Eli out


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## rightwinger

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
Click to expand...


Great plays don't count.......Got it

Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.


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## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
Click to expand...



So you consider this a great play?

A QB bumbling and stumbling his way out of a sack and then closing his eyes and throwing a hailmary down field that ended up being caught by a receiver's helmet?


That was a GOOFY PLAY not a GREAT PLAY


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## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you consider this a great play?
> 
> A QB bumbling and stumbling his way out of a sack and then closing his eyes and throwing a hailmary down field that ended up being caught by a receiver's helmet?
> 
> 
> That was a GOOFY PLAY not a GREAT PLAY
Click to expand...


Eli and the Giants never gave up on the play. A characteristic of true champions. Giants wanted it more. That was obvious


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## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
Click to expand...


He fought off tacklers, threw a pass to a receiver who managed to come down with the ball.

Manning pretty much did, on that play, what Johnny Manziel is famous for doing.


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## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you consider this a great play?
> 
> A QB bumbling and stumbling his way out of a sack and then closing his eyes and throwing a hailmary down field that ended up being caught by a receiver's helmet?
> 
> 
> That was a GOOFY PLAY not a GREAT PLAY
Click to expand...


He managed NOT to get sacked by a good defense.  Yeah, I consider that a great play.  Manning did what it took to keep the play alive and the receiver did what it took to catch the ball.

I guess any play that doesn't look perfect is reason to take away a win?   LMAO!   

You never played football, did you?  I can guarantee it is easier to catch a pass in your chest than on top of your helmet.  And I can also guarantee the receiver was fighting his instincts to cover his gut.

That was a helluva clutch play.


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## WinterBorn

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you consider this a great play?
> 
> A QB bumbling and stumbling his way out of a sack and then closing his eyes and throwing a hailmary down field that ended up being caught by a receiver's helmet?
> 
> 
> That was a GOOFY PLAY not a GREAT PLAY
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli and the Giants never gave up on the play. A characteristic of true champions. Giants wanted it more. That was obvious
Click to expand...


That is the secret of champions, to want it more and to do what it takes to win.

Eli Manning did that.  I doubt he loses any sleep over what some armchair QB thinks of how pretty the play looked.   He won a Super Bowl.


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## Book of Jeremiah

fbj said:


> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?



Well, it is hard to say why some are favored and others not but I suppose it isn't up to us to ask such a thing as it is not our decision.  With that said, fbj, I have a story about this young man.  I believe the year was 2007, it was the game between the Patriots and the Giants and it happened that I came across some news that the Patriots had sent spies to spy out the moves of the Giants - The Patriots were cheating!  Oh!  I do not like cheating!  

I tell you the truth!   I felt such a holy anger come over me, I cannot tell you the half of it!  I prayed and asked the LORD to make the Giants win by a 3 point lead.  In fact, I was so passionate about this praying of the matter I became convinced that was exactly as it would be!

  So then the reports were at the time that the Patriots were the undefeated team of the season.  They had not lost a single game!  The Whole Season!   Indeed my own husband confirmed this I do believe.  I can't ask him at the moment as he isn't here but I'm quite certain that is how it was.  The Patriots were undefeated and headed for the Super Bowl game to play against the Giants.  

I didn't have the television hook up cable to see the game.  I could only hear the reports which came across like a radio reporting with no pictures.  I prayed it through until the news came that the young man you speak of had caught the football on his head and therein won for the Giants by a 3 point lead!  Of course I had known that they would win as I had asked for it in prayer but I surely did not know this young man would be the one God would use -  to catch a football on his helmet and make it happen.  So I just said, Thank you, Lord, for making the Patriots lose. Amen.  And that was the end of it. 

That is what happened concerning this man you speak of - Eli Manning - and I do not know why he was favored so much.  Perhaps he has a praying mother?   

Thank you for listening to my story.


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## fbj

So when you win the SB you can play like CRAP the next 2 seasons?


And he missed the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.     Brady has never missed the playoffs that many times


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## Book of Jeremiah

I am sorry, fbj.  I'll pray for Brady.   I haven't kept up with any thing else about the Giants since then.  It was just a one time deal.  Something that had to be set right.  Have a good evening and do not fret over it.


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## rightwinger

fbj said:


> So when you win the SB you can play like CRAP the next 2 seasons?
> 
> 
> And he missed the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.     Brady has never missed the playoffs that many times



It depends on whether you like fantasy football QBs and the Buffalo Bills or whether you want championships


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## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> So when you win the SB you can play like CRAP the next 2 seasons?
> 
> 
> And he missed the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.     Brady has never missed the playoffs that many times



Right, because Manning is the ONLY player on the field?  And, of course, he wasn't trying at all. 

In the '09 season, the Giants may not have made the playoffs.  But he had 4,021 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, a 62.3 completion percentage rating and a passer rating of 93.1.  So he was doing something right.   How was the Giants defense the years they didn't make the playoffs?  Looks to me like crappy teams scored plenty of points.


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## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
Click to expand...


Let's clarify here.  Manning was obviously not sacked.  There were defenders all around him, some laying their hands on him, and he managed to stay on his feet and break free.  Isn't that what you WANT a QB to do?  The Patriots pass rush was heavy.  Those boys are pros.  And yet they still could not get Manning down.

That you think this makes him less of a QB shows your lack of understanding of the game.


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## rightwinger

Eli has defeated an 18-0 team and a 15-1 team in the playoffs

No QB will ever match that


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## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when you win the SB you can play like CRAP the next 2 seasons?
> 
> 
> And he missed the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.     Brady has never missed the playoffs that many times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right, because Manning is the ONLY player on the field?  And, of course, he wasn't trying at all.
> 
> In the '09 season, the Giants may not have made the playoffs.  But he had 4,021 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, a 62.3 completion percentage rating and a passer rating of 93.1.  So he was doing something right.   How was the Giants defense the years they didn't make the playoffs?  Looks to me like crappy teams scored plenty of points.
Click to expand...



I just don't understand how a QB can keep missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions and media and fans continue to say the things below because of 2 SB that happened in the past

1. No Offensive Line

2. Receivers running wrong route

3. No Running Game


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## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's clarify here.  Manning was obviously not sacked.  There were defenders all around him, some laying their hands on him, and he managed to stay on his feet and break free.  Isn't that what you WANT a QB to do?  The Patriots pass rush was heavy.  Those boys are pros.  And yet they still could not get Manning down.
> 
> That you think this makes him less of a QB shows your lack of understanding of the game.
Click to expand...


If you look at that play again it was not eluding defenders.    The Pats defenders ran into each other and one of them was unable to hold on to Eli.     Eli was never and will never be a QB who eludes defenders


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## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when you win the SB you can play like CRAP the next 2 seasons?
> 
> 
> And he missed the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.     Brady has never missed the playoffs that many times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right, because Manning is the ONLY player on the field?  And, of course, he wasn't trying at all.
> 
> In the '09 season, the Giants may not have made the playoffs.  But he had 4,021 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, a 62.3 completion percentage rating and a passer rating of 93.1.  So he was doing something right.   How was the Giants defense the years they didn't make the playoffs?  Looks to me like crappy teams scored plenty of points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how a QB can keep missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions and media and fans continue to say the things below because of 2 SB that happened in the past
> 
> 1. No Offensive Line
> 
> 2. Receivers running wrong route
> 
> 3. No Running Game
Click to expand...


I'd say look to the changes in the teams from year to year.  

But your ridiculing Manning for the clutch play of the year is insane.  I looked at the film again.  One of the players that had manning by the jersey was Richard Seymour.  He played in 7 Pro Bowls, was named to 3 All Pro teams, and may be one of the best D-linemen playing in the NFL.   You don't "stumble" and get away from players like that.  You scramble and fight to stay upright and keep playing.

I just looked again.  There were several changes on the roster after SB42.   The one that stands out to me is Gibril Wilson becoming a free agent and leaving.  He is the one who batted down Brady's hail Mary pass to win the Super Bowl.  In 4 years with the Giants Wilson had 360 tackles, 6 sacks, and 11 INTs.  Talent changes and the chemistry changes.

But please feel free to tell us any QB who won SB after SB after SB.


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## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's clarify here.  Manning was obviously not sacked.  There were defenders all around him, some laying their hands on him, and he managed to stay on his feet and break free.  Isn't that what you WANT a QB to do?  The Patriots pass rush was heavy.  Those boys are pros.  And yet they still could not get Manning down.
> 
> That you think this makes him less of a QB shows your lack of understanding of the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you look at that play again it was not eluding defenders.    The Pats defenders ran into each other and one of them was unable to hold on to Eli.     Eli was never and will never be a QB who eludes defenders
Click to expand...


He stayed on his feet and got away.  Both of the defenders had a grip on his jersey and he pulled away.   If you want to claim that it was him stumbling and the two linemen knocking each other down, feel free.  Both of them were trying and failed to sack Manning.


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## Book of Jeremiah

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
Click to expand...



"He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Patriots defender and threw the ball down the field to a reciever who caught it with his helmet?!"  Are you kidding me? 

  That is like throwing a smashed clock up in the air and having it land perfectly in order and ticking right on time!  Listen to me!   That entire happening was an answer to prayer, Sir!  I just told you how it happened and guess what?!    The right team won! By a three point lead!  No less!  Just what I asked for!  I'll take Manning over Brady any day of the week!  Mannings found favor!  Brady sounds like he is under a curse!  Good night!


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## JimH52

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
Click to expand...


That was one of the greatest plays I have ever seen in a Super Bowl.  The Giants embarrassed the Putriots to the point that their coach, Bill Billicheat, actually stormed off the field before the end of the game, leaving his defense on the field alone.  It showed what a poor loser he is.


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## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, because Manning is the ONLY player on the field?  And, of course, he wasn't trying at all.
> 
> In the '09 season, the Giants may not have made the playoffs.  But he had 4,021 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, a 62.3 completion percentage rating and a passer rating of 93.1.  So he was doing something right.   How was the Giants defense the years they didn't make the playoffs?  Looks to me like crappy teams scored plenty of points.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how a QB can keep missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions and media and fans continue to say the things below because of 2 SB that happened in the past
> 
> 1. No Offensive Line
> 
> 2. Receivers running wrong route
> 
> 3. No Running Game
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd say look to the changes in the teams from year to year.
> 
> But your ridiculing Manning for the clutch play of the year is insane.  I looked at the film again.  One of the players that had manning by the jersey was Richard Seymour.  He played in 7 Pro Bowls, was named to 3 All Pro teams, and may be one of the best D-linemen playing in the NFL.   You don't "stumble" and get away from players like that.  You scramble and fight to stay upright and keep playing.
> 
> I just looked again.  There were several changes on the roster after SB42.   The one that stands out to me is Gibril Wilson becoming a free agent and leaving.  He is the one who batted down Brady's hail Mary pass to win the Super Bowl.  In 4 years with the Giants Wilson had 360 tackles, 6 sacks, and 11 INTs.  Talent changes and the chemistry changes.
> 
> But please feel free to tell us any QB who won SB after SB after SB.
Click to expand...



Mr. Brady


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## rightwinger

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how a QB can keep missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions and media and fans continue to say the things below because of 2 SB that happened in the past
> 
> 1. No Offensive Line
> 
> 2. Receivers running wrong route
> 
> 3. No Running Game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say look to the changes in the teams from year to year.
> 
> But your ridiculing Manning for the clutch play of the year is insane.  I looked at the film again.  One of the players that had manning by the jersey was Richard Seymour.  He played in 7 Pro Bowls, was named to 3 All Pro teams, and may be one of the best D-linemen playing in the NFL.   You don't "stumble" and get away from players like that.  You scramble and fight to stay upright and keep playing.
> 
> I just looked again.  There were several changes on the roster after SB42.   The one that stands out to me is Gibril Wilson becoming a free agent and leaving.  He is the one who batted down Brady's hail Mary pass to win the Super Bowl.  In 4 years with the Giants Wilson had 360 tackles, 6 sacks, and 11 INTs.  Talent changes and the chemistry changes.
> 
> But please feel free to tell us any QB who won SB after SB after SB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Brady
Click to expand...


Mr Brady would be the greatest QB of all time if not for the exploits of one Eli Manning

Eli owns Tom Brady


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how a QB can keep missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions and media and fans continue to say the things below because of 2 SB that happened in the past
> 
> 1. No Offensive Line
> 
> 2. Receivers running wrong route
> 
> 3. No Running Game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say look to the changes in the teams from year to year.
> 
> But your ridiculing Manning for the clutch play of the year is insane.  I looked at the film again.  One of the players that had manning by the jersey was Richard Seymour.  He played in 7 Pro Bowls, was named to 3 All Pro teams, and may be one of the best D-linemen playing in the NFL.   You don't "stumble" and get away from players like that.  You scramble and fight to stay upright and keep playing.
> 
> I just looked again.  There were several changes on the roster after SB42.   The one that stands out to me is Gibril Wilson becoming a free agent and leaving.  He is the one who batted down Brady's hail Mary pass to win the Super Bowl.  In 4 years with the Giants Wilson had 360 tackles, 6 sacks, and 11 INTs.  Talent changes and the chemistry changes.
> 
> But please feel free to tell us any QB who won SB after SB after SB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Brady
Click to expand...


Right, so either Manning has the best record of any active QB, or he is below average?  lmao

Brady has been in the NFL 13 years.  He has led his team to 5 SBs and won 3.  In other words, he has also lost 2 SBs.   13 years and 3 SB wins.  He has won a Super Bowl 23% of the time.

Manning has been in the NFL for 9 years.  He led his team to 2 SBs and won both.  In other words, he has not lost a Super bowl.  9 years and 2 SB wins.  He has won a Super Bowl 22% of the time.

I'd call that more than average.

I don't know anyone who is saying Eli Manning is the best QB.  But he is damn sure better than average.


----------



## WinterBorn

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say look to the changes in the teams from year to year.
> 
> But your ridiculing Manning for the clutch play of the year is insane.  I looked at the film again.  One of the players that had manning by the jersey was Richard Seymour.  He played in 7 Pro Bowls, was named to 3 All Pro teams, and may be one of the best D-linemen playing in the NFL.   You don't "stumble" and get away from players like that.  You scramble and fight to stay upright and keep playing.
> 
> I just looked again.  There were several changes on the roster after SB42.   The one that stands out to me is Gibril Wilson becoming a free agent and leaving.  He is the one who batted down Brady's hail Mary pass to win the Super Bowl.  In 4 years with the Giants Wilson had 360 tackles, 6 sacks, and 11 INTs.  Talent changes and the chemistry changes.
> 
> But please feel free to tell us any QB who won SB after SB after SB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Brady
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mr Brady would be the greatest QB of all time if not for the exploits of one Eli Manning
> 
> Eli owns Tom Brady
Click to expand...


Yep!   Brady has lost 2 Super Bowls.  It was Eli Manning's Giants both times.   No one else has beaten Brady in the big game.


----------



## fbj

Bill Belechick stopped being a genius around 2007


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> Bill Belechick stopped being a genius around 2007



The point is, you can't expect any team to win every time.  Undefeated seasons are rare.  Take the wins and enjoy them without trying to blame one player for some bad games.

I'm a hardcore Crimson Tide fan.  I saw all the "End of a Dynasty" nonsense at the end of the season.  I actually had people feeling sorry for Bama fans.   Can you imagine?  Winning 3 BCS Championships in 4 years and people pity a team that went 11-2?  lol

Manning is a great QB.  Anyone saying he is average is just not paying attention.


----------



## rightwinger

Eli Manning has twice been in Super Bowls where he was given a "simple" task. March 85 yards for a score in two and a half minutes and we win. Fail and we lose. Eli scored touchdowns to win both times converting key fourth down passes. 

In 45 years of SuperBowls, how many QBs have done it once?


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> Eli Manning has twice been in Super Bowls where he was given a "simple" task. March 85 yards for a score in two and a half minutes and we win. Fail and we lose. Eli scored touchdowns to win both times converting key fourth down passes.
> 
> In 45 years of SuperBowls, how many QBs have done it once?



But why does he throw so many interceptions?    I believe he had 6 in one game


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli Manning has twice been in Super Bowls where he was given a "simple" task. March 85 yards for a score in two and a half minutes and we win. Fail and we lose. Eli scored touchdowns to win both times converting key fourth down passes.
> 
> In 45 years of SuperBowls, how many QBs have done it once?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But why does he throw so many interceptions?    I believe he had 6 in one game
Click to expand...


Brady threw 4 in one game against the Bills.

Drew Brees threw 5 against the Falcons.

Johnny Unitas had 5 interceptions in 5 different games in his career.


Sometimes a defense is fired up and playing in the zone.


----------



## WinterBorn

Oh, and both Brett Farve and Peyton Manning have thrown 6 INTs in a single game.   Sometimes you have shitty games.


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli Manning has twice been in Super Bowls where he was given a "simple" task. March 85 yards for a score in two and a half minutes and we win. Fail and we lose. Eli scored touchdowns to win both times converting key fourth down passes.
> 
> In 45 years of SuperBowls, how many QBs have done it once?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But why does he throw so many interceptions?    I believe he had 6 in one game
Click to expand...


I remember one game against Minnesota. Eli threw four picks returned for scores. They wanted to run him out of town. Eli shrugged it off

He went on to beat an undefeated Patriot team in the Superbowl that year


----------



## WheelieAddict

Jeez man the thread title is confusing. So I don't know what I am answering to but Eli is above average and not elite.


----------



## TheIceMan

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
Click to expand...


Okay.  That is lame.  THAT is why you don't give him credit?  Because he played the game and luck was on his side?  Might as well not count most games.  The game itself requires BOTH luck and skill.


----------



## TheIceMan

fbj said:


> So when you win the SB you can play like CRAP the next 2 seasons?
> 
> 
> And he missed the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.     Brady has never missed the playoffs that many times



Jim McMahon.  "Nuff said".


----------



## TheIceMan

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when you win the SB you can play like CRAP the next 2 seasons?
> 
> 
> And he missed the playoffs 4 times in 5 years.     Brady has never missed the playoffs that many times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right, because Manning is the ONLY player on the field?  And, of course, he wasn't trying at all.
> 
> In the '09 season, the Giants may not have made the playoffs.  But he had 4,021 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, a 62.3 completion percentage rating and a passer rating of 93.1.  So he was doing something right.   How was the Giants defense the years they didn't make the playoffs?  Looks to me like crappy teams scored plenty of points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how a QB can keep missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions and media and fans continue to say the things below because of 2 SB that happened in the past
> 
> 1. No Offensive Line
> 
> 2. Receivers running wrong route
> 
> 3. No Running Game
Click to expand...


Look at Johnny Unitas's stats.


----------



## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli Manning has twice been in Super Bowls where he was given a "simple" task. March 85 yards for a score in two and a half minutes and we win. Fail and we lose. Eli scored touchdowns to win both times converting key fourth down passes.
> 
> In 45 years of SuperBowls, how many QBs have done it once?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But why does he throw so many interceptions?    I believe he had 6 in one game
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Brady threw 4 in one game against the Bills.
> 
> Drew Brees threw 5 against the Falcons.
> 
> Johnny Unitas had 5 interceptions in 5 different games in his career.
> 
> 
> Sometimes a defense is fired up and playing in the zone.
Click to expand...




True but in the case of Brady and Brees it;s a rare thing.     Eli does it every other week


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> Bill Belechick stopped being a genius around 2007



He stopped being a genius when the NFL took his Cam Corder away.  Sounds like a Paul Simon song, huh.


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why does he throw so many interceptions?    I believe he had 6 in one game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brady threw 4 in one game against the Bills.
> 
> Drew Brees threw 5 against the Falcons.
> 
> Johnny Unitas had 5 interceptions in 5 different games in his career.
> 
> 
> Sometimes a defense is fired up and playing in the zone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True but in the case of Brady and Brees it;s a rare thing.     Eli does it every other week
Click to expand...


Eli was playing hurt all last year.  Will be different in 2014-15.


----------



## fbj

JimH52 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brady threw 4 in one game against the Bills.
> 
> Drew Brees threw 5 against the Falcons.
> 
> Johnny Unitas had 5 interceptions in 5 different games in his career.
> 
> 
> Sometimes a defense is fired up and playing in the zone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True but in the case of Brady and Brees it;s a rare thing.     Eli does it every other week
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli was playing hurt all last year.  Will be different in 2014-15.
Click to expand...


whatever, another excuse

I can't wait to hear the excuses when he missed the playoffs for the 3rd straight year


----------



## WheelieAddict

The Belichick cheating Tom Shady excuse is old and worn out. Belichick is a great coach and Brady is a great qb, one of the greatest ever. Brady is going to show his age sooner or later at this point though. Just a matter of time.


----------



## rightwinger

Eli looks like an average QB because he plays for an average team. He is not surrounded with any future HOF players. 
The last eight years the Giants have been a average team. 8-8 to 10-6. Hardly a dynasty. But that average team has managed to win two SuperBowls. That is a credit to Tom Coghlin and Eli Manning. 
Once they make the playoffs, they find a way to win and survive every week

Eli is hardly an all time great QB but he is a future HOF player. He gives hope to every 9-7 and 10-6 team that they too can win a championship......Hey, Eli did it......TWICE


----------



## fbj

WheelieAddict said:


> The Belichick cheating Tom Shady excuse is old and worn out. Belichick is a great coach and Brady is a great qb, one of the greatest ever. Brady is going to show his age sooner or later at this point though. Just a matter of time.



I just wish Belechick could have won another SB after spygate to show he is not a fraud


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> Eli looks like an average QB because he plays for an average team. He is not surrounded with any future HOF players.
> The last eight years the Giants have been a average team. 8-8 to 10-6. Hardly a dynasty. But that average team has managed to win two SuperBowls. That is a credit to Tom Coghlin and Eli Manning.
> Once they make the playoffs, they find a way to win and survive every week
> 
> Eli is hardly an all time great QB but he is a future HOF player. He gives hope to every 9-7 and 10-6 team that they too can win a championship......Hey, Eli did it......TWICE



That 1st SB had everything to do with the defense.     Did you forget the final score was 17-14?


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Belichick cheating Tom Shady excuse is old and worn out. Belichick is a great coach and Brady is a great qb, one of the greatest ever. Brady is going to show his age sooner or later at this point though. Just a matter of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just wish Belechick could have won another SB after spygate to show he is not a fraud
Click to expand...


Blame Eli


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli looks like an average QB because he plays for an average team. He is not surrounded with any future HOF players.
> The last eight years the Giants have been a average team. 8-8 to 10-6. Hardly a dynasty. But that average team has managed to win two SuperBowls. That is a credit to Tom Coghlin and Eli Manning.
> Once they make the playoffs, they find a way to win and survive every week
> 
> Eli is hardly an all time great QB but he is a future HOF player. He gives hope to every 9-7 and 10-6 team that they too can win a championship......Hey, Eli did it......TWICE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That 1st SB had everything to do with the defense.     Did you forget the final score was 17-14?
Click to expand...


Good observation
The Giant D kept them in the game and harassed Brady all game. But Pats led 7-3 after three quarters. In the fourth quarter, it was Eli against the great Tom Brady for the win. Eli won 14-7 including the game winning TD pass with 34 seconds left


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli looks like an average QB because he plays for an average team. He is not surrounded with any future HOF players.
> The last eight years the Giants have been a average team. 8-8 to 10-6. Hardly a dynasty. But that average team has managed to win two SuperBowls. That is a credit to Tom Coghlin and Eli Manning.
> Once they make the playoffs, they find a way to win and survive every week
> 
> Eli is hardly an all time great QB but he is a future HOF player. He gives hope to every 9-7 and 10-6 team that they too can win a championship......Hey, Eli did it......TWICE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That 1st SB had everything to do with the defense.     Did you forget the final score was 17-14?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good observation
> The Giant D kept them in the game and harassed Brady all game. But Pats led 7-3 after three quarters. In the fourth quarter, it was Eli against the great Tom Brady for the win. Eli won 14-7 including the game winning TD pass with 34 seconds left
Click to expand...



Which he was only able to throw because of the hailmary on the previous play


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> That 1st SB had everything to do with the defense.     Did you forget the final score was 17-14?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good observation
> The Giant D kept them in the game and harassed Brady all game. But Pats led 7-3 after three quarters. In the fourth quarter, it was Eli against the great Tom Brady for the win. Eli won 14-7 including the game winning TD pass with 34 seconds left
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which he was only able to throw because of the hailmary on the previous play
Click to expand...


It wasn't the next play. Actually, he had to convert another key third down on the series after the Tyree catch. Then, Eli killed them with a TD to Buress


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good observation
> The Giant D kept them in the game and harassed Brady all game. But Pats led 7-3 after three quarters. In the fourth quarter, it was Eli against the great Tom Brady for the win. Eli won 14-7 including the game winning TD pass with 34 seconds left
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which he was only able to throw because of the hailmary on the previous play
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasn't the next play. Actually, he had to convert another key third down on the series after the Tyree catch. Then, Eli killed them with a TD to Buress
Click to expand...



I clearly remember after the Tyree catch, the next play being Eli to Plaxico for the TD


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which he was only able to throw because of the hailmary on the previous play
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't the next play. Actually, he had to convert another key third down on the series after the Tyree catch. Then, Eli killed them with a TD to Buress
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I clearly remember after the Tyree catch, the next play being Eli to Plaxico for the TD
Click to expand...


You misremember


----------



## bsan1504

Well lets look at the context of the argument. Everyone keeps talking about how he won 2 superbowls  but not really looking at what else would make him an elite QB. Just to clarify now I zm in no way saying that winning 2 superbowls doesn't boost your legacy but there can be a few arguments as to why Eli is or isn't considered an Elite QB. First his regular season stats are very up and down he has no consistency......he is either very good or mediocre and that isn't what you really want from him. Missing the playoffs is a huge deal. With the way he plays in the Playoffs you would want him to make it every year which is hard to do but that's what his brother and  Brady does. Secondly no one ever says Jim Kelly wasn't an elite QB for losing 4 straight superbowls or even Dan Marino for that matter who went to one and lost it. As of right now even with his 2 superbowls wins many people believe Eli doesn't quite measure up to Marino and really all Marino has is his regular season stats, no superbowl wins just 1 appearance and im guessing more playoff losses than wins but we can check that.


----------



## fbj

bsan1504 said:


> Well lets look at the context of the argument. Everyone keeps talking about how he won 2 superbowls  but not really looking at what else would make him an elite QB. Just to clarify now I zm in no way saying that winning 2 superbowls doesn't boost your legacy but there can be a few arguments as to why Eli is or isn't considered an Elite QB. First his regular season stats are very up and down he has no consistency......he is either very good or mediocre and that isn't what you really want from him. Missing the playoffs is a huge deal. With the way he plays in the Playoffs you would want him to make it every year which is hard to do but that's what his brother and  Brady does. Secondly no one ever says Jim Kelly wasn't an elite QB for losing 4 straight superbowls or even Dan Marino for that matter who went to one and lost it. As of right now even with his 2 superbowls wins many people believe Eli doesn't quite measure up to Marino and really all Marino has is his regular season stats, no superbowl wins just 1 appearance and im guessing more playoff losses than wins but we can check that.




And let's not forget how Eli just throws the ball up for grabs to avoid getting hit which is something a NFL QB is not supposed to do


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets look at the context of the argument. Everyone keeps talking about how he won 2 superbowls  but not really looking at what else would make him an elite QB. Just to clarify now I zm in no way saying that winning 2 superbowls doesn't boost your legacy but there can be a few arguments as to why Eli is or isn't considered an Elite QB. First his regular season stats are very up and down he has no consistency......he is either very good or mediocre and that isn't what you really want from him. Missing the playoffs is a huge deal. With the way he plays in the Playoffs you would want him to make it every year which is hard to do but that's what his brother and  Brady does. Secondly no one ever says Jim Kelly wasn't an elite QB for losing 4 straight superbowls or even Dan Marino for that matter who went to one and lost it. As of right now even with his 2 superbowls wins many people believe Eli doesn't quite measure up to Marino and really all Marino has is his regular season stats, no superbowl wins just 1 appearance and im guessing more playoff losses than wins but we can check that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And let's not forget how Eli just throws the ball up for grabs to avoid getting hit which is something a NFL QB is not supposed to do
Click to expand...


I forget which coach said it of the pass, "When you pass, one of three things will happen.  And two of them are bad."

There is always a risk when you pass.  Taking a sack and losing yards is not very productive either.  As we have discussed, the first SB Eli won, you have dismissed because of a play that most people consider an amazing clutch play under serious pressure.


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets look at the context of the argument. Everyone keeps talking about how he won 2 superbowls  but not really looking at what else would make him an elite QB. Just to clarify now I zm in no way saying that winning 2 superbowls doesn't boost your legacy but there can be a few arguments as to why Eli is or isn't considered an Elite QB. First his regular season stats are very up and down he has no consistency......he is either very good or mediocre and that isn't what you really want from him. Missing the playoffs is a huge deal. With the way he plays in the Playoffs you would want him to make it every year which is hard to do but that's what his brother and  Brady does. Secondly no one ever says Jim Kelly wasn't an elite QB for losing 4 straight superbowls or even Dan Marino for that matter who went to one and lost it. As of right now even with his 2 superbowls wins many people believe Eli doesn't quite measure up to Marino and really all Marino has is his regular season stats, no superbowl wins just 1 appearance and im guessing more playoff losses than wins but we can check that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And let's not forget how Eli just throws the ball up for grabs to avoid getting hit which is something a NFL QB is not supposed to do
Click to expand...


Let's not forget it was a beautiful pass, right on the money where only Tyree could catch it


----------



## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well lets look at the context of the argument. Everyone keeps talking about how he won 2 superbowls  but not really looking at what else would make him an elite QB. Just to clarify now I zm in no way saying that winning 2 superbowls doesn't boost your legacy but there can be a few arguments as to why Eli is or isn't considered an Elite QB. First his regular season stats are very up and down he has no consistency......he is either very good or mediocre and that isn't what you really want from him. Missing the playoffs is a huge deal. With the way he plays in the Playoffs you would want him to make it every year which is hard to do but that's what his brother and  Brady does. Secondly no one ever says Jim Kelly wasn't an elite QB for losing 4 straight superbowls or even Dan Marino for that matter who went to one and lost it. As of right now even with his 2 superbowls wins many people believe Eli doesn't quite measure up to Marino and really all Marino has is his regular season stats, no superbowl wins just 1 appearance and im guessing more playoff losses than wins but we can check that.[/quote
> 
> And let's not forget how Eli just throws the ball up for grabs to avoid getting hit which is something a NFL QB is not supposed to do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I forget which coach said it of the pass, "When you pass, one of three things will happen.  And two of them are bad."
> 
> There is always a risk when you pass.  Taking a sack and losing yards is not very productive either.  As we have discussed, the first SB Eli won, you have dismissed because of a play that most people consider an amazing clutch play under serious pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought it was better to take the sack rather than a pass to avoid getting hit and it's intercepted.      So what;s better to you
> 
> a sack with lost yardage and another opportunity to score?
> a interception and not another opportunity to score?
Click to expand...


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I forget which coach said it of the pass, "When you pass, one of three things will happen.  And two of them are bad."
> 
> There is always a risk when you pass.  Taking a sack and losing yards is not very productive either.  As we have discussed, the first SB Eli won, you have dismissed because of a play that most people consider an amazing clutch play under serious pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought it was better to take the sack rather than a pass to avoid getting hit and it's intercepted.      So what;s better to you
> 
> a sack with lost yardage and another opportunity to score?
> a interception and not another opportunity to score?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously a turnover is worse, in most instances.  If it is 4th down and the pass has some distance, the turnover is better.
> 
> Also, the receiver/defender matchup counts.  An iffy defender and a solid receiver gives you better odds that your man comes down with the ball.
> 
> But when you have just over a minute left in the game and it is 3rd & 5, go for it.
Click to expand...


----------



## bsan1504

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought it was better to take the sack rather than a pass to avoid getting hit and it's intercepted.      So what;s better to you
> 
> a sack with lost yardage and another opportunity to score?
> a interception and not another opportunity to score?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously a turnover is worse, in most instances.  If it is 4th down and the pass has some distance, the turnover is better.
> 
> Also, the receiver/defender matchup counts.  An iffy defender and a solid receiver gives you better odds that your man comes down with the ball.
> 
> But when you have just over a minute left in the game and it is 3rd & 5, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
Click to expand...


----------



## WinterBorn

bsan1504 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously a turnover is worse, in most instances.  If it is 4th down and the pass has some distance, the turnover is better.
> 
> Also, the receiver/defender matchup counts.  An iffy defender and a solid receiver gives you better odds that your man comes down with the ball.
> 
> But when you have just over a minute left in the game and it is 3rd & 5, go for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think he is better than average.  And I think what fbj is claiming is that Eli Manning is not up to average.  I haven't seen anyone say "elite" about him.
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

bsan1504 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously a turnover is worse, in most instances.  If it is 4th down and the pass has some distance, the turnover is better.
> 
> Also, the receiver/defender matchup counts.  An iffy defender and a solid receiver gives you better odds that your man comes down with the ball.
> 
> But when you have just over a minute left in the game and it is 3rd & 5, go for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
Click to expand...


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Manning has been playing in the NFL for 1 year less than Romo, and has almost 6k more yards passing.  Romo's QB rating is higher though.
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We could have a whole other thread on Romo
> It would go on much longer than this one
> 
> Romo is a better QB than Eli for three quarters
Click to expand...


----------



## WinterBorn

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We could have a whole other thread on Romo
> It would go on much longer than this one
> 
> Romo is a better QB than Eli for three quarters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A lot of the problem with this entire topic is that is does not take the rest of the team into account.   For a QB that means the O line, the ability of the receivers to catch, and other factors.
Click to expand...


----------



## bsan1504

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought it was better to take the sack rather than a pass to avoid getting hit and it's intercepted.      So what;s better to you
> 
> a sack with lost yardage and another opportunity to score?
> a interception and not another opportunity to score?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously a turnover is worse, in most instances.  If it is 4th down and the pass has some distance, the turnover is better.
> 
> Also, the receiver/defender matchup counts.  An iffy defender and a solid receiver gives you better odds that your man comes down with the ball.
> 
> But when you have just over a minute left in the game and it is 3rd & 5, go for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think he is better than average.  And I think what fbj is claiming is that Eli Manning is not up to average.  I haven't seen anyone say "elite" about him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fair statement......me personally I believe he is just average only for the simple fact that you never know what you are going to get from him in the regular season. His playoff numbers are fantastic but he has to get there first and there has been many seasons when he just couldn't get the Giants into the playoffs. But by no means am I taking away his good seasons when he does play well. I just think his good years don't outweigh his bad years at least right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> We could have a whole other thread on Romo
> It would go on much longer than this one
> 
> Romo is a better QB than Eli for three quarters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of the problem with this entire topic is that is does not take the rest of the team into account.   For a QB that means the O line, the ability of the receivers to catch, and other factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True but what about when Eli makes it obvious he doesn't want to get hit and just launches the ball anywhere and it gets picked off?
> 
> I know you seen eli do that many of times
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of the problem with this entire topic is that is does not take the rest of the team into account.   For a QB that means the O line, the ability of the receivers to catch, and other factors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True but what about when Eli makes it obvious he doesn't want to get hit and just launches the ball anywhere and it gets picked off?
> 
> I know you seen eli do that many of times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not many.
> 
> Most of his picks are miscommunications with his receivers. They zig when he thinks they are going to zag
Click to expand...


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of the problem with this entire topic is that is does not take the rest of the team into account.   For a QB that means the O line, the ability of the receivers to catch, and other factors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True but what about when Eli makes it obvious he doesn't want to get hit and just launches the ball anywhere and it gets picked off?
> 
> I know you seen eli do that many of times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't say I have watched that many Giant's games.  Most of the info I have posted here I got via Google.  The NCAA football threads I have tried to start have failed quickly.
> 
> Yeah, throwing the ball away is risky.  But when the average weight of the NFL D-lineman is over 300 lbs, I can't blame someone for not wanting to get slammed.
Click to expand...


----------



## Montrovant

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We could have a whole other thread on Romo
> It would go on much longer than this one
> 
> Romo is a better QB than Eli for three quarters
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The funny thing is that, over the course of their careers, the 4th might be one of those quarters.
> 
> I recently saw some statistics for Romo in the 4th quarter of games over his career and they were pretty damn good.  Unless he has at least one good playoff year, though, he's never going to lose the stigma of being a choker.  I don't know how much of that falls on Romo and how much the rest of the team or coaching staffs.
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> True but what about when Eli makes it obvious he doesn't want to get hit and just launches the ball anywhere and it gets picked off?
> 
> I know you seen eli do that many of times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't say I have watched that many Giant's games.  Most of the info I have posted here I got via Google.  The NCAA football threads I have tried to start have failed quickly.
> 
> Yeah, throwing the ball away is risky.  But when the average weight of the NFL D-lineman is over 300 lbs, I can't blame someone for not wanting to get slammed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well then that means that guy is not man enough to play football if he doesn't want to get hit.
Click to expand...


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't say I have watched that many Giant's games.  Most of the info I have posted here I got via Google.  The NCAA football threads I have tried to start have failed quickly.
> 
> Yeah, throwing the ball away is risky.  But when the average weight of the NFL D-lineman is over 300 lbs, I can't blame someone for not wanting to get slammed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well then that means that guy is not man enough to play football if he doesn't want to get hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No sane person who is 6'4" and 218lbs WANTS to get hit by a 320lb defensive lineman.  Those QBs who HAVE played without regard to being hit have had short careers.
> 
> I have seen Eli take some hard knocks and tough sacks.  He doesn't seem like a coward.
Click to expand...


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me you are not serious!
Click to expand...


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of the problem with this entire topic is that is does not take the rest of the team into account.   For a QB that means the O line, the ability of the receivers to catch, and other factors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True but what about when Eli makes it obvious he doesn't want to get hit and just launches the ball anywhere and it gets picked off?
> 
> I know you seen eli do that many of times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In the end, it doesn't matter what you have seen.  In the end, a two time winning quarterback will be inducted into the Hall of Fame.  The End....
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

JimH52 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> True but what about when Eli makes it obvious he doesn't want to get hit and just launches the ball anywhere and it gets picked off?
> 
> I know you seen eli do that many of times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, it doesn't matter what you have seen.  In the end, a two time winning quarterback will be inducted into the Hall of Fame.  The End....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Troy Aikman doesn't even belong in the HOF with 3 rings so I definitely don't think Eli is HOF material since he is the interception King during the regular season
Click to expand...


----------



## HUGGY

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He fought off tacklers, threw a pass to a receiver who managed to come down with the ball.
> 
> Manning pretty much did, on that play, what Johnny Manziel is famous for doing.
Click to expand...


Don't crown Johnnie Football just yet.  He hasn't played a down in the NFL.  What he used to call his bread and butter in college will likely turn into a lot of pick sixes in the pros.


----------



## WinterBorn

HUGGY said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He fought off tacklers, threw a pass to a receiver who managed to come down with the ball.
> 
> Manning pretty much did, on that play, what Johnny Manziel is famous for doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't crown Johnnie Football just yet.  He hasn't played a down in the NFL.  What he used to call his bread and butter in college will likely turn into a lot of pick sixes in the pros.
Click to expand...


That is very possible.  But I watched 3 QBs who were dual threats beat my Crimson Tide.  Tebow, Cam Newton & Johnny Manziel.    Manziel was, hands down, the most accurate passer.  It looks like a hail mary, but the boy was throwing some accurate passes.


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you guys are talking about has nothing to do with Eli being elite or not. Do you guys consider him an elite QB during the regular season or are there other QBs that you think are better than him during the season and he is just one of those guys that can play better if he gets to the playoffs?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry....I had to go back and read this again.  It was one of the funniest assertions that I have ever read.  You crack me up!
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

JimH52 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bsan1504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are like 12 QB's better than Eli and Romo is one of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry....I had to go back and read this again.  It was one of the funniest assertions that I have ever read.  You crack me up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Top 10 QB don't miss the playoffs 2 years in a row
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry....I had to go back and read this again.  It was one of the funniest assertions that I have ever read.  You crack me up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 10 QB don't miss the playoffs 2 years in a row
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are only three QBs in the NFL who have won two or more SuperBowls.
> 
> Peyton hasn't, Drew Bree's hasn't, Aaron Rodgers hasn't
> 
> Eli has
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 10 QB don't miss the playoffs 2 years in a row
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only three QBs in he NFL who have won two or more SuperBowls.
> 
> Peyton hasn't, Drew Bree's hasn't, Aaron Rodgers hasn't
> 
> Eli has
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please don't compare those QB's to eli manning
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are only three QBs in he NFL who have won two or more SuperBowls.
> 
> Peyton hasn't, Drew Bree's hasn't, Aaron Rodgers hasn't
> 
> Eli has
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't compare those QB's to eli manning
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli is a HOF QB
> 
> He has something the others don't.......Historic Playoff wins
> 
> Defeated an 18-0 team on a last second SB win
> Came back with a last second TD drive to win a second SB
> Defeated a 15-1 GB team in the playoffs
> Beat the great Brett Favre in overtime in GB in sub zero temperatures
> Beat a 13-3 SF team on the road in OT
Click to expand...


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> That 1st SB had everything to do with the defense.     Did you forget the final score was 17-14?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good observation
> The Giant D kept them in the game and harassed Brady all game. But Pats led 7-3 after three quarters. In the fourth quarter, it was Eli against the great Tom Brady for the win. Eli won 14-7 including the game winning TD pass with 34 seconds left
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which he was only able to throw because of the hailmary on the previous play
Click to expand...


And if a frog has wings, he wouldn't bump his ars....Billicheat still stormed off the field like a nine year old.


----------



## JimH52

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Top 10 QB don't miss the playoffs 2 years in a row
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are only three QBs in he NFL who have won two or more SuperBowls.
> 
> Peyton hasn't, Drew Bree's hasn't, Aaron Rodgers hasn't
> 
> Eli has
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't compare those QB's to eli manning
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli is a HOF QB
> 
> He has something the others don't.......Historic Playoff wins
> 
> Defeated an 18-0 team on a last second SB win
> Came back with a last second TD drive to win a second SB
> Defeated a 15-1 GB team in the playoffs
> Beat the great Brett Favre in overtime in GB in sub zero temperatures
> Beat a 13-3 SF team on the road in OT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No doubt about it.  He may even win another SB before he retires.  He and his brother will be first ballot HOF.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## JimH52

As for Tony Romo.  He has won one playoff game in his inconsistent career.  And I see nothing in the works that is going to change this in 14-15.


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't compare those QB's to eli manning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eli is a HOF QB
> 
> He has something the others don't.......Historic Playoff wins
> 
> Defeated an 18-0 team on a last second SB win
> Came back with a last second TD drive to win a second SB
> Defeated a 15-1 GB team in the playoffs
> Beat the great Brett Favre in overtime in GB in sub zero temperatures
> Beat a 13-3 SF team on the road in OT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So if he misses the playoffs every season until he retires is he still a HOF QB?
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli is a HOF QB
> 
> He has something the others don't.......Historic Playoff wins
> 
> Defeated an 18-0 team on a last second SB win
> Came back with a last second TD drive to win a second SB
> Defeated a 15-1 GB team in the playoffs
> Beat the great Brett Favre in overtime in GB in sub zero temperatures
> Beat a 13-3 SF team on the road in OT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if he misses the playoffs every season until he retires is he still a HOF QB?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He has punched his ticket
> 
> If you bother to check, Eli's career numbers are pretty damned good
> His playoff numbers are off the charts
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

JimH52 said:


> As for Tony Romo.  He has won one playoff game in his inconsistent career.  And I see nothing in the works that is going to change this in 14-15.



rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> So if he misses the playoffs every season until he retires is he still a HOF QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has punched his ticket
> 
> If you bother to check, Eli's career numbers are pretty damned good
> His playoff numbers are off the charts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> His interceptions numbers are off the chart too
Click to expand...


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Tony Romo.  He has won one playoff game in his inconsistent career.  And I see nothing in the works that is going to change this in 14-15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Click to expand...


It is hard to take your criticisms seriously when you want to deny him a SB win because you think there was some luck involved or that it wasn't a pretty play.


----------



## HUGGY

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has punched his ticket
> 
> If you bother to check, Eli's career numbers are pretty damned good
> His playoff numbers are off the charts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His interceptions numbers are off the chart too
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He threw 5 at home vs Seattle last season on Dec 15.
Click to expand...


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Tony Romo.  He has won one playoff game in his inconsistent career.  And I see nothing in the works that is going to change this in 14-15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Click to expand...


One career playoff win does?  Romo is not in the top ten QBs.  Face it and then move on.


----------



## fbj

HUGGY said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> His interceptions numbers are off the chart too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He threw 5 at home vs Seattle last season on Dec 15.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And 3 of them was probably because a defender was coming after him
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

JimH52 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Tony Romo.  He has won one playoff game in his inconsistent career.  And I see nothing in the works that is going to change this in 14-15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One career playoff win does?  Romo is not in the top ten QBs.  Face it and then move on.
Click to expand...


I didn't say Romo was in the top 10, I say he is better than Eli


----------



## HUGGY

fbj said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He threw 5 at home vs Seattle last season on Dec 15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 3 of them was probably because a defender was coming after him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is OK to throw the ball at the feet of your receiver with no penalty if the player is beyond the LOS.
Click to expand...


----------



## fbj

HUGGY said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> And 3 of them was probably because a defender was coming after him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is OK to throw the ball at the feet of your receiver with no penalty if the player is beyond the LOS.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, I never understood why he was so scary
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Tony Romo.  He has won one playoff game in his inconsistent career.  And I see nothing in the works that is going to change this in 14-15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Click to expand...


Depends on whether you want a fantasy football QB or one that wins big games


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Tony Romo.  He has won one playoff game in his inconsistent career.  And I see nothing in the works that is going to change this in 14-15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Depends on whether you want a fantasy football QB or one that wins big games
Click to expand...


But he doesn't win if the missed the playoffs 2 years in a row


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on whether you want a fantasy football QB or one that wins big games
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But he doesn't win if the missed the playoffs 2 years in a row
Click to expand...


One playoff win in his career vs. Two Super Bowl wins.....hhhhmmmmm

Which QB will make the HOF and be remembered as one of the best during his career and which will only be remembered for Choking in the playoffs?  Decisions....Decisions......


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> rings don't make you a better QB.    Why is that so hard for you to understand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on whether you want a fantasy football QB or one that wins big games
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But he doesn't win if the missed the playoffs 2 years in a row
Click to expand...


The Giants have been at best an average team for the last ten years Eli has been there. Those 9-7 and 10-6 records don't ensure you a playoff spot.

Where the Giants are different is that Coach Coughlin and Eli Manning have been able to take those average football teams and win two championships. Much of that is due to Eli Mannings ability to come up big in big games


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on whether you want a fantasy football QB or one that wins big games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he doesn't win if the missed the playoffs 2 years in a row
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Giants have been at best an average team for the last ten years Eli has been there. Those 9-7 and 10-6 records don't ensure you a playoff spot.
> 
> Where the Giants are different is that Coach Coughlin and Eli Manning have been able to take those average football teams and win two championships. Much of that is due to Eli Mannings ability to come up big in big games
Click to expand...


Eli Manning's chances of getting into another Super Bowl let alone winning one in the next 5 years is practically zero.

Seattle, Santa Clara or Green Bay will represent the NFC in the forseeable future.

The Giants and Dallas will be 8-8 or 9-7 teams at best for a while...probably until Eli and Tony retire.  By then Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers will each probably have at least two rings each...Wilson will probably have three rings by the time Eli retires. 

What Eli HAS going for him is that his brother only has one ring...


----------



## fbj

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> But he doesn't win if the missed the playoffs 2 years in a row
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Giants have been at best an average team for the last ten years Eli has been there. Those 9-7 and 10-6 records don't ensure you a playoff spot.
> 
> Where the Giants are different is that Coach Coughlin and Eli Manning have been able to take those average football teams and win two championships. Much of that is due to Eli Mannings ability to come up big in big games
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli Manning's chances of getting into another Super Bowl let alone winning one in the next 5 years is practically zero.
> 
> Seattle, Santa Clara or Green Bay will represent the NFC in the forseeable future.
> 
> The Giants and Dallas will be 8-8 or 9-7 teams at best for a while...probably until Eli and Tony retire.  By then Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers will each probably have at least two rings each...Wilson will probably have three rings by the time Eli retires.
> 
> What Eli HAS going for him is that his brother only has one ring...
Click to expand...


Well said


----------



## Montrovant

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> But he doesn't win if the missed the playoffs 2 years in a row
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Giants have been at best an average team for the last ten years Eli has been there. Those 9-7 and 10-6 records don't ensure you a playoff spot.
> 
> Where the Giants are different is that Coach Coughlin and Eli Manning have been able to take those average football teams and win two championships. Much of that is due to Eli Mannings ability to come up big in big games
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli Manning's chances of getting into another Super Bowl let alone winning one in the next 5 years is practically zero.
> 
> Seattle, Santa Clara or Green Bay will represent the NFC in the forseeable future.
> 
> The Giants and Dallas will be 8-8 or 9-7 teams at best for a while...probably until Eli and Tony retire.  By then Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers will each probably have at least two rings each...Wilson will probably have three rings by the time Eli retires.
> 
> What Eli HAS going for him is that his brother only has one ring...
Click to expand...


I'll take 2 more Niner Super Bowl victories before Eli retires!


----------



## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> But he doesn't win if the missed the playoffs 2 years in a row
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Giants have been at best an average team for the last ten years Eli has been there. Those 9-7 and 10-6 records don't ensure you a playoff spot.
> 
> Where the Giants are different is that Coach Coughlin and Eli Manning have been able to take those average football teams and win two championships. Much of that is due to Eli Mannings ability to come up big in big games
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli Manning's chances of getting into another Super Bowl let alone winning one in the next 5 years is practically zero.
> 
> Seattle, Santa Clara or Green Bay will represent the NFC in the forseeable future.
> 
> The Giants and Dallas will be 8-8 or 9-7 teams at best for a while...probably until Eli and Tony retire.  By then Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers will each probably have at least two rings each...Wilson will probably have three rings by the time Eli retires.
> 
> What Eli HAS going for him is that his brother only has one ring...
Click to expand...


Maybe so

But Eli already has two Superbowl MVPs in his pocket. His legacy is sealed even without a third

If Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers get two SB wins they can join Eli in the HOF


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Giants have been at best an average team for the last ten years Eli has been there. Those 9-7 and 10-6 records don't ensure you a playoff spot.
> 
> Where the Giants are different is that Coach Coughlin and Eli Manning have been able to take those average football teams and win two championships. Much of that is due to Eli Mannings ability to come up big in big games
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eli Manning's chances of getting into another Super Bowl let alone winning one in the next 5 years is practically zero.
> 
> Seattle, Santa Clara or Green Bay will represent the NFC in the forseeable future.
> 
> The Giants and Dallas will be 8-8 or 9-7 teams at best for a while...probably until Eli and Tony retire.  By then Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers will each probably have at least two rings each...Wilson will probably have three rings by the time Eli retires.
> 
> What Eli HAS going for him is that his brother only has one ring...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe so
> 
> But Eli already has two Superbowl MVPs in his pocket. His legacy is sealed even without a third
> 
> If Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers get two SB wins they can join Eli in the HOF
Click to expand...




So his legacy is sealed huh?   He can just continue missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions for the next 5 years and will still be a first ballot hall of famer?


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli Manning's chances of getting into another Super Bowl let alone winning one in the next 5 years is practically zero.
> 
> Seattle, Santa Clara or Green Bay will represent the NFC in the forseeable future.
> 
> The Giants and Dallas will be 8-8 or 9-7 teams at best for a while...probably until Eli and Tony retire.  By then Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers will each probably have at least two rings each...Wilson will probably have three rings by the time Eli retires.
> 
> What Eli HAS going for him is that his brother only has one ring...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe so
> 
> But Eli already has two Superbowl MVPs in his pocket. His legacy is sealed even without a third
> 
> If Wilson, Kaepernick and Rodgers get two SB wins they can join Eli in the HOF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So his legacy is sealed huh?   He can just continue missing the playoffs and throwing interceptions for the next 5 years and will still be a first ballot hall of famer?
Click to expand...


Don't know about first ballot, but his ticket is punched


----------



## LA RAM FAN

fbj said:


> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?



Thats going a little too far saying he should be borderline below average QB. I would say average quarterback because of how he has regressed the last couple years yes,but below average is a little absurd since unlike older brother manning,he doesnt choke durint criticial times in the big game.


----------



## fbj

9/11 inside job said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats going a little too far saying he should be borderline below average QB. I would say average quarterback because of how he has regressed the last couple years yes,but below average is a little absurd since unlike older brother manning,he doesnt choke durint criticial times in the big game.
Click to expand...


Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats going a little too far saying he should be borderline below average QB. I would say average quarterback because of how he has regressed the last couple years yes,but below average is a little absurd since unlike older brother manning,he doesnt choke durint criticial times in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL
Click to expand...


I agree

That is why Eli has been in the league for ten years


----------



## WinterBorn

fbj said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats going a little too far saying he should be borderline below average QB. I would say average quarterback because of how he has regressed the last couple years yes,but below average is a little absurd since unlike older brother manning,he doesnt choke durint criticial times in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL
Click to expand...


So the only QBs you want in the NFL are those who ONLY throw passes they are sure will not be intercepted?   You want no QB who is willing to push the envelope to win?   You want only QBs who will lose yardage rather than take any risks?

That would be a pretty crappy QB indeed.

Maybe a good O Line would help?


----------



## LA RAM FAN

fbj said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats going a little too far saying he should be borderline below average QB. I would say average quarterback because of how he has regressed the last couple years yes,but below average is a little absurd since unlike older brother manning,he doesnt choke durint criticial times in the big game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL
Click to expand...


pay attention to what i said.I  said because of the way he has played the last few years regressing like he has  just throwing it up to avoid taking a hit like he has the last couple years,his stock as a good quarterback under pressure has taken a big hit.

If we are talking about the present NOW,then yeah,he is a below average quarterback but i was under the impression we are talking about what he has done his entire career from this thread? If you go by what he has done his entire career,then he is an average quarterback since you cant take away how he came through for them remaining calm playing well in the most critical moments during the big game.

Because of what he has done in the past,he has earned being billed at least an average quarterback.Had he not played so horrible the last couple years like you have described,he would be an above average quarterback.

I would trust Eli anyday of the year over older brother Peyton to come through and win the superbowl for me if i had to choose one of them to lead the team in the superbowl as my quarterback.the results dont lie that Peyton gets scared and chokes where Eli is calm and doesnt let the big game get to him.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats going a little too far saying he should be borderline below average QB. I would say average quarterback because of how he has regressed the last couple years yes,but below average is a little absurd since unlike older brother manning,he doesnt choke durint criticial times in the big game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree
> 
> That is why Eli has been in the league for ten years
Click to expand...


I agree as well.That is indeed why he has been in the league ten years because until recently,he wasnt like that.However he IS like that now.Thats how he has been playing the last couple years just throwing the ball up in the air to get rid of it to avoid taking a hit resulting in interceptions.Since he is playing like that now and not the quarterback we know from the superbowls,he needs to retire.

I watched the entire seahawks/Giants game this past year and even my friend that watched it with me,HE remarked how Eli was just throwing it up in the air to avoid taking a hit.since that is his new mindset,he needs to retire while he still has his credibility intact if he is going to keep playing scared like that. 

If he doesnt turn things around and start playing with the same kind of courage he did in the superbowls again,starting this year,he is going to start losing respect among his teammates if he hasnt already.


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree
> 
> That is why Eli has been in the league for ten years
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree as well.That is indeed why he has been in the league ten years because until recently,he wasnt like that.However he IS like that now.Thats how he has been playing the last couple years just throwing the ball up in the air to get rid of it to avoid taking a hit resulting in interceptions.Since he is playing like that now and not the quarterback we know from the superbowls,he needs to retire.
> 
> I watched the entire seahawks/Giants game this past year and even my friend that watched it with me,HE remarked how Eli was just throwing it up in the air to avoid taking a hit.since that is his new mindset,he needs to retire while he still has his credibility intact if he is going to keep playing scared like that.
Click to expand...


Elis offensive line was wiped out last year and so were his running backs

If that is what you want to judge his career on, go for it


----------



## LA RAM FAN

thats no excuse to throw it up in the air just to get rid of it to avoid taking a hit.The real courageous ones under any circumstances will stand in there and be willing to take a hit to get a completion to move the chains.you would never catch tom brady under center for the giants throwing it up in the air like that just to avoid taking a hit.


----------



## fbj

WinterBorn said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats going a little too far saying he should be borderline below average QB. I would say average quarterback because of how he has regressed the last couple years yes,but below average is a little absurd since unlike older brother manning,he doesnt choke durint criticial times in the big game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the only QBs you want in the NFL are those who ONLY throw passes they are sure will not be intercepted?   You want no QB who is willing to push the envelope to win?   You want only QBs who will lose yardage rather than take any risks?
> 
> That would be a pretty crappy QB indeed.
> 
> Maybe a good O Line would help?
Click to expand...



I would take a 15 yd loss than a INT on any given sunday


----------



## fbj

He is not even the best QB in his division

Romo
RG3
Foles
Eli


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> He is not even the best QB in his division
> 
> Romo
> RG3
> Foles
> Eli



Playoff wins

Romo 1-3
RG3 0-1
Foles 0-1
Eli 8-4

SuperBowls

Romo 0
RG3 0
Foles 0
Eli 2


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is not even the best QB in his division
> 
> Romo
> RG3
> Foles
> Eli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Playoff wins
> 
> Romo 1
> RG3 0
> Foles 0
> Eli 8
> 
> SuperBowls
> 
> Romo 0
> RG3 0
> Foles 0
> Eli 2
Click to expand...




1st SB.........6 years ago

2nd SB..........3 years ago............nothing since then



Missed the playoffs twice in between both SB's


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is not even the best QB in his division
> 
> Romo
> RG3
> Foles
> Eli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Playoff wins
> 
> Romo 1
> RG3 0
> Foles 0
> Eli 8
> 
> SuperBowls
> 
> Romo 0
> RG3 0
> Foles 0
> Eli 2
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1st SB.........6 years ago
> 
> 2nd SB..........3 years ago............nothing since then
> 
> 
> 
> Missed the playoffs twice in between both SB's
Click to expand...


How long since any of the others won SuperBowls?


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Playoff wins
> 
> Romo 1
> RG3 0
> Foles 0
> Eli 8
> 
> SuperBowls
> 
> Romo 0
> RG3 0
> Foles 0
> Eli 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1st SB.........6 years ago
> 
> 2nd SB..........3 years ago............nothing since then
> 
> 
> 
> Missed the playoffs twice in between both SB's
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How long since any of the others won SuperBowls?
Click to expand...


Any NFL fan who is not a Giants fan would take all those QB's over Eli.


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1st SB.........6 years ago
> 
> 2nd SB..........3 years ago............nothing since then
> 
> 
> 
> Missed the playoffs twice in between both SB's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How long since any of the others won SuperBowls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any NFL fan who is not a Giants fan would take all those QB's over Eli.
Click to expand...


Even the Cowboys would take Eli over Romo

The other two are could be

I doubt RGIII will last two years and Fowles will be a backup by then. I predict that in three years Eli Manning will be the only QB of the four that is still with his team


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?



I think he's way overrated, but that might be just because they beat the Pats.


----------



## fbj

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he's way overrated, but that might be just because they beat the Pats.
Click to expand...



Watch when he miss the playoffs again this year people will stay say........"but he has 2 SB"s lol


Eli missed the playoffs in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17


"But but he has 2 SB rings from 6 and 11 years ago"


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he's way overrated, but that might be just because they beat the Pats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Watch when he miss the playoffs again this year people will stay say........"but he has 2 SB"s lol
> 
> 
> Eli missed the playoffs in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17
> 
> 
> "But but he has 2 SB rings from 6 and 11 years ago"
Click to expand...


Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.


----------



## fbj

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he's way overrated, but that might be just because they beat the Pats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch when he miss the playoffs again this year people will stay say........"but he has 2 SB"s lol
> 
> 
> Eli missed the playoffs in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17
> 
> 
> "But but he has 2 SB rings from 6 and 11 years ago"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
Click to expand...


Or 

Big Ben
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Tony Romo


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch when he miss the playoffs again this year people will stay say........"but he has 2 SB"s lol
> 
> 
> Eli missed the playoffs in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17
> 
> 
> "But but he has 2 SB rings from 6 and 11 years ago"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> Big Ben
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Tony Romo
Click to expand...


Tony Romo??!!!  Nooooo!


----------



## fbj

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> Big Ben
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Tony Romo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tony Romo??!!!  Nooooo!
Click to expand...




Romo is going to surprise a lot of people, watch


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> Big Ben
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Tony Romo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Romo??!!!  Nooooo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Romo is going to surprise a lot of people, watch
Click to expand...


Is Dallas your team?


----------



## fbj

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Romo??!!!  Nooooo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Romo is going to surprise a lot of people, watch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is Dallas your team?
Click to expand...


Yes


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Romo is going to surprise a lot of people, watch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Dallas your team?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes
Click to expand...


Oh, I can't wait for football season to start so that I can razz you about Tony!    We'll have lots of fun I'm sure!


----------



## HUGGY

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is Dallas your team?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I can't wait for football season to start so that I can razz you about Tony!    We'll have lots of fun I'm sure!
Click to expand...


Gerry Jones likes the smell of Aqua Shave in the morning...  

If Dallas is "America's Team" why don't they sell more Romo jerseys?  Fair Question...


----------



## ChrisL

HUGGY said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I can't wait for football season to start so that I can razz you about Tony!    We'll have lots of fun I'm sure!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gerry Jones likes the smell of Aqua Shave in the morning...
> 
> If Dallas is "America's Team" why don't they sell more Romo jerseys?  Fair Question...
Click to expand...


Lol!  Good question.  

There are so many good memes online about Tony that I could post, but I don't want to post them now and ruin it for football season.


----------



## rightwinger

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he's way overrated, but that might be just because they beat the Pats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch when he miss the playoffs again this year people will stay say........"but he has 2 SB"s lol
> 
> 
> Eli missed the playoffs in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17
> 
> 
> "But but he has 2 SB rings from 6 and 11 years ago"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
Click to expand...


No, but he has won more championships than his brother and beaten Tom Brady twice


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch when he miss the playoffs again this year people will stay say........"but he has 2 SB"s lol
> 
> 
> Eli missed the playoffs in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17
> 
> 
> "But but he has 2 SB rings from 6 and 11 years ago"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> Big Ben
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Tony Romo
Click to expand...


OK
First off. We need to remove Romo from any discussion of great QBs. Romo has great QB skills but he is not a great QB

The others are all future HOF QBs. Whether they are better than Eli Manning is debatable. But what can be certain is that 50 years from now, people will still be talking about the exploits of Eli Manning. The others will be largely forgotten


----------



## rightwinger

The highlight of Tony Romos career






Vs the highlight of Eli Mannings career


----------



## Montrovant

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> Big Ben
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Tony Romo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK
> First off. We need to remove Romo from any discussion of great QBs. Romo has great QB skills but he is not a great QB
> 
> The others are all future HOF QBs. Whether they are better than Eli Manning is debatable. But what can be certain is that 50 years from now, people will still be talking about the exploits of Eli Manning. The others will be largely forgotten
Click to expand...


Wait.  Technically, yes, it's debatable which QB is better; it's always debatable which QB is better since it's a subjective question.  That said, I don't think you'll find many football fans who would hesitate to say that Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are better QBs than Eli Manning.

And in 50 years, the only reason people might talk about Eli would be as the QB for the team that prevented the Pats from going undefeated, or possibly the David Tyree helmet catch.  It wouldn't be because Eli has had such a great career to this point that it needs to be discussed for years and years.


----------



## rightwinger

Montrovant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> Big Ben
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Tony Romo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK
> First off. We need to remove Romo from any discussion of great QBs. Romo has great QB skills but he is not a great QB
> 
> The others are all future HOF QBs. Whether they are better than Eli Manning is debatable. But what can be certain is that 50 years from now, people will still be talking about the exploits of Eli Manning. The others will be largely forgotten
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait.  Technically, yes, it's debatable which QB is better; it's always debatable which QB is better since it's a subjective question.  That said, I don't think you'll find many football fans who would hesitate to say that Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are better QBs than Eli Manning.
> 
> And in 50 years, the only reason people might talk about Eli would be as the QB for the team that prevented the Pats from going undefeated, or possibly the David Tyree helmet catch.  It wouldn't be because Eli has had such a great career to this point that it needs to be discussed for years and years.
Click to expand...


Eli will be discussed 50 years from now because he has a historic win

Right now you can talk about Johnny Unitas' sudden death win in 58, Bart Starr in the Icebowl in 67, Joe Namath guaranteeing a win in 69 and Eli Manning shocking the 18-0 Pats in 2008

Not many QBs today can crack that list


----------



## Montrovant

rightwinger said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK
> First off. We need to remove Romo from any discussion of great QBs. Romo has great QB skills but he is not a great QB
> 
> The others are all future HOF QBs. Whether they are better than Eli Manning is debatable. But what can be certain is that 50 years from now, people will still be talking about the exploits of Eli Manning. The others will be largely forgotten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  Technically, yes, it's debatable which QB is better; it's always debatable which QB is better since it's a subjective question.  That said, I don't think you'll find many football fans who would hesitate to say that Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are better QBs than Eli Manning.
> 
> And in 50 years, the only reason people might talk about Eli would be as the QB for the team that prevented the Pats from going undefeated, or possibly the David Tyree helmet catch.  It wouldn't be because Eli has had such a great career to this point that it needs to be discussed for years and years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli will be discussed 50 years from now because he has a historic win
> 
> Right now you can talk about Johnny Unitas' sudden death win in 58, Bart Starr in the Icebowl in 67, Joe Namath guaranteeing a win in 69 and Eli Manning shocking the 18-0 Pats in 2008
> 
> Not many QBs today can crack that list
Click to expand...


Except that, off the top of my head, I don't know what happened with Unitas in 58, while I knew about the Ice Bowl I didn't realize Bart Starr was one of the QBs involved, and generally it's the Giants talked about shocking the Pats, not Eli Manning.  Namath's guarantee is memorable as an individual thing because that's what it was, not part of a game.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

fbj said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any QB who would rather throw a INT than get hit should not be in the NFL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the only QBs you want in the NFL are those who ONLY throw passes they are sure will not be intercepted?   You want no QB who is willing to push the envelope to win?   You want only QBs who will lose yardage rather than take any risks?
> 
> That would be a pretty crappy QB indeed.
> 
> Maybe a good O Line would help?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would take a 15 yd loss than a INT on any given sunday
Click to expand...


the OLD Eli used to actually do that.if he doesnt get his act together this year,he needs to hang it up.


----------



## ChrisL

rightwinger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Watch when he miss the playoffs again this year people will stay say........"but he has 2 SB"s lol
> 
> 
> Eli missed the playoffs in 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17
> 
> 
> "But but he has 2 SB rings from 6 and 11 years ago"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, but he has won more championships than his brother and beaten Tom Brady twice
Click to expand...


He is still not  the caliber QB of Brady or his brother, Peyton.  I think he's good at best, and he gets lucky a lot of times.  I don't think he has the poise under pressure that Brady has either.


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the only QBs you want in the NFL are those who ONLY throw passes they are sure will not be intercepted?   You want no QB who is willing to push the envelope to win?   You want only QBs who will lose yardage rather than take any risks?
> 
> That would be a pretty crappy QB indeed.
> 
> Maybe a good O Line would help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would take a 15 yd loss than a INT on any given sunday
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the OLD Eli used to actually do that.if he doesnt get his act together this year,he needs to hang it up.
Click to expand...


I don't know about that.  He is still not a terrible quarterback, and Dallas still has Romo, so . . . .


----------



## rightwinger

ChrisL said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but he has won more championships than his brother and beaten Tom Brady twice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is still not  the caliber QB of Brady or his brother, Peyton.  I think he's good at best, and he gets lucky a lot of times.  I don't think he has the poise under pressure that Brady has either.
Click to expand...


No question Peyton is the better QB. But in a big game I'll take Eli every time. For some reason Eli gets "lucky" and Peyton doesn't


----------



## ChrisL

Montrovant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or
> 
> Big Ben
> Drew Brees
> Aaron Rodgers
> Tony Romo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK
> First off. We need to remove Romo from any discussion of great QBs. Romo has great QB skills but he is not a great QB
> 
> The others are all future HOF QBs. Whether they are better than Eli Manning is debatable. But what can be certain is that 50 years from now, people will still be talking about the exploits of Eli Manning. The others will be largely forgotten
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wait.  Technically, yes, it's debatable which QB is better; it's always debatable which QB is better since it's a subjective question.  That said, I don't think you'll find many football fans *who would hesitate to say that Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are better QBs than Eli Manning*.
> 
> And in 50 years, the only reason people might talk about Eli would be as the QB for the team that prevented the Pats from going undefeated, or possibly the David Tyree helmet catch.  It wouldn't be because Eli has had such a great career to this point that it needs to be discussed for years and years.
Click to expand...


Oops!  You forgot Tom Brady!    Eli gets lucky a lot in the same way that Brett Favre got lucky a lot of times, just lobbing the ball when under pressure, but thankfully he had good receivers.  I think Eli is very similar type of QB except Brett Favre was still better because he had great vision to know when he needed to get rid of the ball, when to fall on it, etc.


----------



## ChrisL

rightwinger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, but he has won more championships than his brother and beaten Tom Brady twice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is still not  the caliber QB of Brady or his brother, Peyton.  I think he's good at best, and he gets lucky a lot of times.  I don't think he has the poise under pressure that Brady has either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No question Peyton is the better QB. But in a big game I'll take Eli every time. For some reason Eli gets "lucky" and Peyton doesn't
Click to expand...


Lol!  I can't argue with that because it seems like Peyton has been very unlucky as of late.


----------



## fbj

All Eli does is throw the ball up for grabs and prays someone comes down with it


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> All Eli does is throw the ball up for grabs and prays someone comes down with it



He's like a snake though!  I don't know how he manages to get away from some sacks.


----------



## Montrovant

ChrisL said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK
> First off. We need to remove Romo from any discussion of great QBs. Romo has great QB skills but he is not a great QB
> 
> The others are all future HOF QBs. Whether they are better than Eli Manning is debatable. But what can be certain is that 50 years from now, people will still be talking about the exploits of Eli Manning. The others will be largely forgotten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait.  Technically, yes, it's debatable which QB is better; it's always debatable which QB is better since it's a subjective question.  That said, I don't think you'll find many football fans *who would hesitate to say that Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are better QBs than Eli Manning*.
> 
> And in 50 years, the only reason people might talk about Eli would be as the QB for the team that prevented the Pats from going undefeated, or possibly the David Tyree helmet catch.  It wouldn't be because Eli has had such a great career to this point that it needs to be discussed for years and years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oops!  You forgot Tom Brady!    Eli gets lucky a lot in the same way that Brett Favre got lucky a lot of times, just lobbing the ball when under pressure, but thankfully he had good receivers.  I think Eli is very similar type of QB except Brett Favre was still better because he had great vision to know when he needed to get rid of the ball, when to fall on it, etc.
Click to expand...


I was only using the names on his list.  Of course Brady is better.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would take a 15 yd loss than a INT on any given sunday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the OLD Eli used to actually do that.if he doesnt get his act together this year,he needs to hang it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know about that.  He is still not a terrible quarterback, and Dallas still has Romo, so . . . .
Click to expand...


Yeah when you mention that, the fact that ROMO is still the starter there amazingly,guess anybody can be a quarterback. I would for sure take Eli over Romo anyday of the year.Eli doesnt welt in big games.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is still not  the caliber QB of Brady or his brother, Peyton.  I think he's good at best, and he gets lucky a lot of times.  I don't think he has the poise under pressure that Brady has either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No question Peyton is the better QB. But in a big game I'll take Eli every time. For some reason Eli gets "lucky" and Peyton doesn't
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol!  I can't argue with that because it seems like Peyton has been very unlucky as of late.
Click to expand...


Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.

I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's face it, he's no Tom Brady, nor is he his brother, Peyton Manning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but he has won more championships than his brother and beaten Tom Brady twice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is still not  the caliber QB of Brady or his brother, Peyton.  I think he's good at best, and he gets lucky a lot of times.  I don't think he has the poise under pressure that Brady has either.
Click to expand...


He for sure has much better poise under pressure in Big games than older brother Peyton though.thats for sure.


----------



## fbj

Eli beat Brady twice in the SB and many NFL fans would still take Brady over ELi


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No question Peyton is the better QB. But in a big game I'll take Eli every time. For some reason Eli gets "lucky" and Peyton doesn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol!  I can't argue with that because it seems like Peyton has been very unlucky as of late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.
> 
> I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.
Click to expand...


Yes, although I think Peyton is good, he does tend to choke.  Let's also not forget about the very talented receivers and other teammates he had while he was QB for the Colts.  His team mates really helped to boost his career IMO.  They were outstanding for quite a while.


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No question Peyton is the better QB. But in a big game I'll take Eli every time. For some reason Eli gets "lucky" and Peyton doesn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol!  I can't argue with that because it seems like Peyton has been very unlucky as of late.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.
> 
> I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.
Click to expand...


Well, it's hard to say.  And if what you say is true, then he is quite lucky to even be in the position he is in.


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, but he has won more championships than his brother and beaten Tom Brady twice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is still not  the caliber QB of Brady or his brother, Peyton.  I think he's good at best, and he gets lucky a lot of times.  I don't think he has the poise under pressure that Brady has either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He for sure has much better poise under pressure in Big games than older brother Peyton though.thats for sure.
Click to expand...


As of recently, yes you would be right, but when Peyton was with the Colts, he was quite good.  I think it would have been possible for him to have even won a SB during those days because he had more confidence with the excellent team that was surrounded by.  I think that makes a big difference.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol!  I can't argue with that because it seems like Peyton has been very unlucky as of late.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.
> 
> I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, it's hard to say.  And if what you say is true, then he is quite lucky to even be in the position he is in.
Click to expand...

well he excels during the regular season because in regular season games you can make mistakes one game and then correct them the next week. there are some people that just cant handle the spotlight playing in the big game and he's one of them.  He cant get out of a mindset he apparently has that he cant screw up in this game-the superbowl  because he wont be playing the next week if he does.
Knowing those circumstances,he tends to get conservative not taking the chances he tookd during the regular season.


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.
> 
> I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it's hard to say.  And if what you say is true, then he is quite lucky to even be in the position he is in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well he excels during the regular season because in regular season games you can make mistakes one game and then correct them the next week. there are some people that just cant handle the spotlight playing in the big game and he's one of them.  He cant get out of a mindset he apparently has that he cant screw up in this game-the superbowl  because he wont be playing the next week if he does.
> Knowing those circumstances,he tends to get conservative not taking the chances he tookd during the regular season.
Click to expand...


I definitely agree that his confidence level is a factor.  That is why I think he could have had a chance at winning while with the Colts but I don't think his chances are very good now because he just doesn't seem to have the confidence he used to have while playing with his old team and under his old coach.  Also, I remember he had to take that time off for an injury he had too.  That might have something to do with it too.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol!  I can't argue with that because it seems like Peyton has been very unlucky as of late.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.
> 
> I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, although I think Peyton is good, he does tend to choke.  Let's also not forget about the very talented receivers and other teammates he had while he was QB for the Colts.  His team mates really helped to boost his career IMO.  They were outstanding for quite a while.
Click to expand...


I've always said for years he is a clone of dan marino.Marino was the same way,he always put up impressive numbers and statistics during the regular season but come crunch time in big games in the playoffs, he would choke and stink up the joint.Just like Marino,Manning cant handle the spotlight of playing in the big game.  Marino would never stand in the pocket to take a hit when the game was on the line,he would throw it away.Like Manning,Marino had excellent receivers in the marx brothers to make him look good.


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.
> 
> I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, although I think Peyton is good, he does tend to choke.  Let's also not forget about the very talented receivers and other teammates he had while he was QB for the Colts.  His team mates really helped to boost his career IMO.  They were outstanding for quite a while.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've always said for years he is a clone of dan marino.Marino was the same way,he always put up impressive numbers and statistics during the regular season but come crunch time in big games in the playoffs, he would choke and stink up the joint.Just like Marino,Manning cant handle the spotlight of playing in the big game.  Marino would never stand in the pocket to take a hit when the game was on the line,he would throw it away.Like Manning,Marino had excellent receivers in the marx brothers to make him look good.
Click to expand...


I can't say that I'm familiar with Dan Marino's career because he is a bit before my time, but I've heard all about him, and from I've heard I would agree.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it's hard to say.  And if what you say is true, then he is quite lucky to even be in the position he is in.
> 
> 
> 
> well he excels during the regular season because in regular season games you can make mistakes one game and then correct them the next week. there are some people that just cant handle the spotlight playing in the big game and he's one of them.  He cant get out of a mindset he apparently has that he cant screw up in this game-the superbowl  because he wont be playing the next week if he does.
> Knowing those circumstances,he tends to get conservative not taking the chances he tookd during the regular season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I definitely agree that his confidence level is a factor.  That is why I think he could have had a chance at winning while with the Colts but I don't think his chances are very good now because he just doesn't seem to have the confidence he used to have while playing with his old team and under his old coach.  Also, I remember he had to take that time off for an injury he had too.  That might have something to do with it too.
Click to expand...


He just got as far as he did to the superbowl last year because the AFC is so weak.Dont expect them to make it back to the superbowl this year,he isnt getting any younger.Matter of fact I would be very much surprised if he doesnt miss a few games because of injury this year.all the great ones when they hit 38,it almost always shows by that time.

I would be surprised if he didnt miss a few games cause of injury this year because he will have to face the NFC west,the toughest division in football and most physical.that will take a toll on him.

I couldnt believe all the people who actually picked the donkeys to win the superbowl last year.i kept telling them that manning hadnt faced a defense like the seahawks all year long last year and it just went through one ear and out the other.

 i tried explaining the last time he faced a defense similiar to how physical the seahawks are was in the playoff game the previous year against the ravens when he choked in that game throwing an interception in overtime that cost them the game.  the ONLY reasaon the game was close and not a blowout that year was because it was played in denver which is a huge disadvantage to visiting teams because
1.the altititude.the air is so thin its tough on the players because they are not used to it.
2.the noise is so loud its deafening,their crowd noise is louder than anybody except seattle.

so had that game been played on a neautral site,the ravens would have blown them out as well.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

as you can see,i TRIED to spell it out for them dummies style back then,that the real superbowl was the NFC championship game.that the donkeys did not have a prayer in that game but it just went through one ear and out the other with them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sport...ng-the-broncos-to-win-forget-these-facts.html


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> well he excels during the regular season because in regular season games you can make mistakes one game and then correct them the next week. there are some people that just cant handle the spotlight playing in the big game and he's one of them.  He cant get out of a mindset he apparently has that he cant screw up in this game-the superbowl  because he wont be playing the next week if he does.
> Knowing those circumstances,he tends to get conservative not taking the chances he tookd during the regular season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely agree that his confidence level is a factor.  That is why I think he could have had a chance at winning while with the Colts but I don't think his chances are very good now because he just doesn't seem to have the confidence he used to have while playing with his old team and under his old coach.  Also, I remember he had to take that time off for an injury he had too.  That might have something to do with it too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He just got as far as he did to the superbowl last year because the AFC is so weak.Dont expect them to make it back to the superbowl this year,he isnt getting any younger.Matter of fact I would be very much surprised if he doesnt miss a few games because of injury this year.all the great ones when they hit 38,it almost always shows by that time.
> 
> I would be surprised if he didnt miss a few games cause of injury this year because he will have to face the NFC west,the toughest division in football and most physical.that will take a toll on him.
> 
> I couldnt believe all the people who actually picked the donkeys to win the superbowl last year.i kept telling them that manning hadnt faced a defense like the seahawks all year long last year and it just went through one ear and out the other.
> 
> i tried explaining the last time he faced a defense similiar to how physical the seahawks are was in the playoff game the previous year against the ravens when he choked in that game throwing an interception in overtime that cost them the game.  the ONLY reasaon the game was close and not a blowout that year was because it was played in denver which is a huge disadvantage to visiting teams because
> 1.the altititude.the air is so thin its tough on the players because they are not used to it.
> 2.the noise is so loud its deafening,their crowd noise is louder than anybody except seattle.
> 
> so had that game been played on a neautral site,the ravens would have blown them out as well.
Click to expand...


I really haven't been keeping up with the Patriots, so it's going to be a complete surprise during preseason for me.  I hope they have a good team this year.  Brady's been having his own problems with accuracy it seems.  Can't wait for the season to start though!


----------



## Montrovant

Why do people talk about quarterbacks beating the other team's quarterback?  That doesn't happen with any other position.

Eli beat the Patriots.  He didn't beat Brady.


----------



## rightwinger

ChrisL said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol!  I can't argue with that because it seems like Peyton has been very unlucky as of late.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luck has NOTHING to do with it.Going back to his college days Peyton has ALWAYS panicked in big games against top notch competition.He was heavily criticised coming out of college that he had meltdowns in big games.that continued in his NFL days against top notch competition.He cost them against the ravens in Denver the year before,blew it for them against the saints in the superbowl and now the seahawks as well. The facts prove Eli remains calm in the big games where Peyton doesnt.
> 
> I agree with him as well.during the regular season I will take Peyton,but in the big game,I also will take brother Eli everytime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, although I think Peyton is good, he does tend to choke.  Let's also not forget about the very talented receivers and other teammates he had while he was QB for the Colts.  His team mates really helped to boost his career IMO.  They were outstanding for quite a while.
Click to expand...


Time after time, Peyton has been given the opportunity to excell. He has had the tools at his disposal. Score a TD and we win, fail and we lose

Peyton has failed. He has rarely delivered in the playoffs


----------



## ChrisL

Montrovant said:


> Why do people talk about quarterbacks beating the other team's quarterback?  That doesn't happen with any other position.
> 
> Eli beat the Patriots.  He didn't beat Brady.



Well, Eli and his TEAM beat the Patriots.    Eli couldn't have beat the Patriots all by himself you know.  Lol!


----------



## Montrovant

ChrisL said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do people talk about quarterbacks beating the other team's quarterback?  That doesn't happen with any other position.
> 
> Eli beat the Patriots.  He didn't beat Brady.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Eli and his TEAM beat the Patriots.    Eli couldn't have beat the Patriots all by himself you know.  Lol!
Click to expand...


I don't know, some of the posts on this thread make me think people believe that he could.


----------



## barry1960

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
Click to expand...


Well I guess we can't count Terry Bradshaw's Superbowl X win due to Swann's leaping catch. Forget Montana's first Superbowl win cause he would not have been there if not for a great catch by Dwight Clark. In fact, as a Chiefs fan, I am discounting the last 45 SB games so KC is still the reigning champ.


----------



## ChrisL

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am curious, what are the obvious reasons his first SB win doesn't count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
Click to expand...


Meh, I still say he got lucky by squirming his way out of that sack.  I still say there was a lot of holding that should have been called in that game.  There were some BLATANT holds, that really probably helped Eli to get away.


----------



## fbj

barry1960 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was sacked and somehow tripped and stumbled his way out of the Pats defender and then threw the ball down the field praying a NY giant came down with it who happened to be a receiver that caught it with his helmet.
> 
> That was a joke of a win and I never gave credit for the 1st SB.   Only the 2nd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I guess we can't count Terry Bradshaw's Superbowl X win due to Swann's leaping catch. Forget Montana's first Superbowl win cause he would not have been there if not for a great catch by Dwight Clark. In fact, as a Chiefs fan, I am discounting the last 45 SB games so KC is still the reigning champ.
Click to expand...



You are not comparing Eli Manning to Joe Montana are you???


----------



## barry1960

fbj said:


> barry1960 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great plays don't count.......Got it
> 
> Eli eluding three defenders and managing to complete a pass 30 yards down the field was one of the most clutch plays ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess we can't count Terry Bradshaw's Superbowl X win due to Swann's leaping catch. Forget Montana's first Superbowl win cause he would not have been there if not for a great catch by Dwight Clark. In fact, as a Chiefs fan, I am discounting the last 45 SB games so KC is still the reigning champ.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are not comparing Eli Manning to Joe Montana are you???
Click to expand...


I that what you got at of that????? No I am not....... 

Great plays win games and no way should anyone discount them.


----------



## ChrisL

barry1960 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barry1960 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess we can't count Terry Bradshaw's Superbowl X win due to Swann's leaping catch. Forget Montana's first Superbowl win cause he would not have been there if not for a great catch by Dwight Clark. In fact, as a Chiefs fan, I am discounting the last 45 SB games so KC is still the reigning champ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are not comparing Eli Manning to Joe Montana are you???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I that what you got at of that????? No I am not.......
> 
> Great plays win games and no way should anyone discount them.
Click to expand...


And so does luck.


----------



## HUGGY

ChrisL said:


> barry1960 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are not comparing Eli Manning to Joe Montana are you???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I that what you got at of that????? No I am not.......
> 
> Great plays win games and no way should anyone discount them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And so does luck.
Click to expand...


Oh Crap !!!

Now I have to rethink the last SB where my Seahawks barely scraped by 43-8 and beat the Broncos..

Hmmm...???? 

Just how much DID LUCK play that cold day in New Joisey ????

How much did LUCK play in the Hawks 23-0 game December 15th last season when Eli Manning threw 5 interceptions.. ???

This next Sunday the Seahawks will travel to Milke High Stadium for a slight preview of this season ...  I doubt the Hawks OR Denver will show ANYTHING in that no count game.  

That is if Denver is Lucky.  If Seattle is LUCKY the announcers will offer that the Hawks were lucky in SB 48.

They meet again for real September 21st in Seattle where if Peyton Manning is LUCKY he will escape that contest with his life.

The fans will be *lucky* watching Manning squirm pre game over the non stop questions about what REALLY happened in the last Super Bowl.

How much does luck play in the NFL?  Dunno... I know I feel lucky to be a Seahawks fan.


----------



## ChrisL

HUGGY said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barry1960 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I that what you got at of that????? No I am not.......
> 
> Great plays win games and no way should anyone discount them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And so does luck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Crap !!!
> 
> Now I have to rethink the last SB where my Seahawks barely scraped by 43-8 and beat the Broncos..
> 
> Hmmm...????
> 
> Just how much DID LUCK play that cold day in New Joisey ????
> 
> How much did LUCK play in the Hawks 23-0 game December 15th last season when Eli Manning threw 5 interceptions.. ???
> 
> This next Sunday the Seahawks will travel to Milke High Stadium for a slight preview of this season ...  I doubt the Hawks OR Denver will show ANYTHING in that no count game.
> 
> That is if Denver is Lucky.  If Seattle is LUCKY the announcers will offer that the Hawks were lucky in SB 48.
> 
> They meet again for real September 21st in Seattle where if Peyton Manning is LUCKY he will escape that contest with his life.
> 
> The fans will be *lucky* watching Manning squirm pre game over the non stop questions about what REALLY happened in the last Super Bowl.
> 
> How much does luck play in the NFL?  Dunno... I know I feel lucky to be a Seahawks fan.
Click to expand...


Hey, what can Eli say?  Some are more lucky than others I suppose.


----------



## HUGGY

ChrisL said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> And so does luck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Crap !!!
> 
> Now I have to rethink the last SB where my Seahawks barely scraped by 43-8 and beat the Broncos..
> 
> Hmmm...????
> 
> Just how much DID LUCK play that cold day in New Joisey ????
> 
> How much did LUCK play in the Hawks 23-0 game December 15th last season when Eli Manning threw 5 interceptions.. ???
> 
> This next Sunday the Seahawks will travel to Milke High Slmet and is tadium for a slight preview of this season ...  I doubt the Hawks OR Denver will show ANYTHING in that no count game.
> 
> That is if Denver is Lucky.  If Seattle is LUCKY the announcers will offer that the Hawks were lucky in SB 48.
> 
> They meet again for real September 21st in Seattle where if Peyton Manning is LUCKY he will escape that contest with his life.
> 
> The fans will be *lucky* watching Manning squirm pre game over the non stop questions about what REALLY happened in the last Super Bowl.
> 
> How much does luck play in the NFL?  Dunno... I know I feel lucky to be a Seahawks fan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, what can Eli say?  Some are more lucky than others I suppose.
Click to expand...


It seems from reviewing two enormously significant plays ..one...where Eli escapes the grasp of around a dozen players and gets off a pass that seemed fortunate.  The second was a long hail mary where the receiver closely defended by TWO opposing teams secondary traps the football against the top of his helmet.  99 times out of a hundred the ball bounces off the helmet straight up into the air and falls to the turf or most likely gets intercepted with that many DBs in the immediate vicinity.

It seems to me that what many Giants fans call GREAT PLAYS to most unbiased observers would call lucky.  What is more amusing is that from these two extremely fortunate plays sways the powers that be to coronate Manning the MVP in both Super Bowls. 

Wilson played better in SB 48 than Manning did in both his SBs and yet the MVP last February went to a part time Seahawk linebacker that doesn't even start for the Hawks.. NOW that is UNLUCKY..  Ha....Ha...


----------



## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Crap !!!
> 
> Now I have to rethink the last SB where my Seahawks barely scraped by 43-8 and beat the Broncos..
> 
> Hmmm...????
> 
> Just how much DID LUCK play that cold day in New Joisey ????
> 
> How much did LUCK play in the Hawks 23-0 game December 15th last season when Eli Manning threw 5 interceptions.. ???
> 
> This next Sunday the Seahawks will travel to Milke High Slmet and is tadium for a slight preview of this season ...  I doubt the Hawks OR Denver will show ANYTHING in that no count game.
> 
> That is if Denver is Lucky.  If Seattle is LUCKY the announcers will offer that the Hawks were lucky in SB 48.
> 
> They meet again for real September 21st in Seattle where if Peyton Manning is LUCKY he will escape that contest with his life.
> 
> The fans will be *lucky* watching Manning squirm pre game over the non stop questions about what REALLY happened in the last Super Bowl.
> 
> How much does luck play in the NFL?  Dunno... I know I feel lucky to be a Seahawks fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, what can Eli say?  Some are more lucky than others I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems from reviewing two enormously significant plays ..one...where Eli escapes the grasp of around a dozen players and gets off a pass that seemed fortunate.  The second was a long hail mary where the receiver closely defended by TWO opposing teams secondary traps the football against the top of his helmet.  99 times out of a hundred the ball bounces off the helmet straight up into the air and falls to the turf or most likely gets intercepted with that many DBs in the immediate vicinity.
> 
> It seems to me that what many Giants fans call GREAT PLAYS to most unbiased observers would call lucky.  What is more amusing is that from these two extremely fortunate plays sways the powers that be to coronate Manning the MVP in both Super Bowls.
> 
> Wilson played better in SB 48 than Manning did in both his SBs and yet the MVP last February went to a part time Seahawk linebacker that doesn't even start for the Hawks.. NOW that is UNLUCKY..  Ha....Ha...
Click to expand...


Sometimes you make your own luck by not giving up on a play

Tyree did not catch the ball on his helmet. He caught the ball with two hands. When the defender pulled one hand away, he used his helmet to make up for the missing hand. More instinctive than luck


----------



## fbj

HUGGY said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Crap !!!
> 
> Now I have to rethink the last SB where my Seahawks barely scraped by 43-8 and beat the Broncos..
> 
> Hmmm...????
> 
> Just how much DID LUCK play that cold day in New Joisey ????
> 
> How much did LUCK play in the Hawks 23-0 game December 15th last season when Eli Manning threw 5 interceptions.. ???
> 
> This next Sunday the Seahawks will travel to Milke High Slmet and is tadium for a slight preview of this season ...  I doubt the Hawks OR Denver will show ANYTHING in that no count game.
> 
> That is if Denver is Lucky.  If Seattle is LUCKY the announcers will offer that the Hawks were lucky in SB 48.
> 
> They meet again for real September 21st in Seattle where if Peyton Manning is LUCKY he will escape that contest with his life.
> 
> The fans will be *lucky* watching Manning squirm pre game over the non stop questions about what REALLY happened in the last Super Bowl.
> 
> How much does luck play in the NFL?  Dunno... I know I feel lucky to be a Seahawks fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, what can Eli say?  Some are more lucky than others I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It seems from reviewing two enormously significant plays ..one...where Eli escapes the grasp of around a dozen players and gets off a pass that seemed fortunate.  The second was a long hail mary where the receiver closely defended by TWO opposing teams secondary traps the football against the top of his helmet.  99 times out of a hundred the ball bounces off the helmet straight up into the air and falls to the turf or most likely gets intercepted with that many DBs in the immediate vicinity.
> 
> It seems to me that what many Giants fans call GREAT PLAYS to most unbiased observers would call lucky.  What is more amusing is that from these two extremely fortunate plays sways the powers that be to coronate Manning the MVP in both Super Bowls.
> 
> Wilson played better in SB 48 than Manning did in both his SBs and yet the MVP last February went to a part time Seahawk linebacker that doesn't even start for the Hawks.. NOW that is UNLUCKY..  Ha....Ha...
Click to expand...


Did you forget the pass Eli threw was a HAIL MARY?


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, what can Eli say?  Some are more lucky than others I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems from reviewing two enormously significant plays ..one...where Eli escapes the grasp of around a dozen players and gets off a pass that seemed fortunate.  The second was a long hail mary where the receiver closely defended by TWO opposing teams secondary traps the football against the top of his helmet.  99 times out of a hundred the ball bounces off the helmet straight up into the air and falls to the turf or most likely gets intercepted with that many DBs in the immediate vicinity.
> 
> It seems to me that what many Giants fans call GREAT PLAYS to most unbiased observers would call lucky.  What is more amusing is that from these two extremely fortunate plays sways the powers that be to coronate Manning the MVP in both Super Bowls.
> 
> Wilson played better in SB 48 than Manning did in both his SBs and yet the MVP last February went to a part time Seahawk linebacker that doesn't even start for the Hawks.. NOW that is UNLUCKY..  Ha....Ha...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you forget the pass Eli threw was a HAIL MARY?
Click to expand...


It was third down, they had another down. Not time for a hail mary

You dont know what Eli saw down the field. He obviously saw a receiver he thought he could get the ball to. He threw a pass that only Tyree could get to and made the play


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems from reviewing two enormously significant plays ..one...where Eli escapes the grasp of around a dozen players and gets off a pass that seemed fortunate.  The second was a long hail mary where the receiver closely defended by TWO opposing teams secondary traps the football against the top of his helmet.  99 times out of a hundred the ball bounces off the helmet straight up into the air and falls to the turf or most likely gets intercepted with that many DBs in the immediate vicinity.
> 
> It seems to me that what many Giants fans call GREAT PLAYS to most unbiased observers would call lucky.  What is more amusing is that from these two extremely fortunate plays sways the powers that be to coronate Manning the MVP in both Super Bowls.
> 
> Wilson played better in SB 48 than Manning did in both his SBs and yet the MVP last February went to a part time Seahawk linebacker that doesn't even start for the Hawks.. NOW that is UNLUCKY..  Ha....Ha...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you forget the pass Eli threw was a HAIL MARY?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was third down, they had another down. Not time for a hail mary
> 
> You dont know what Eli saw down the field. He obviously saw a receiver he thought he could get the ball to. He threw a pass that only Tyree could get to and made the play
Click to expand...



he threw the pass up for grabs


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you forget the pass Eli threw was a HAIL MARY?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was third down, they had another down. Not time for a hail mary
> 
> You dont know what Eli saw down the field. He obviously saw a receiver he thought he could get the ball to. He threw a pass that only Tyree could get to and made the play
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> he threw the pass up for grabs
Click to expand...


No he didn't. Tyree was standing alone in the middle of the field. Defenders showed up after the pass was thrown. Too late


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, what can Eli say?  Some are more lucky than others I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems from reviewing two enormously significant plays ..one...where Eli escapes the grasp of around a dozen players and gets off a pass that seemed fortunate.  The second was a long hail mary where the receiver closely defended by TWO opposing teams secondary traps the football against the top of his helmet.  99 times out of a hundred the ball bounces off the helmet straight up into the air and falls to the turf or most likely gets intercepted with that many DBs in the immediate vicinity.
> 
> It seems to me that what many Giants fans call GREAT PLAYS to most unbiased observers would call lucky.  What is more amusing is that from these two extremely fortunate plays sways the powers that be to coronate Manning the MVP in both Super Bowls.
> 
> Wilson played better in SB 48 than Manning did in both his SBs and yet the MVP last February went to a part time Seahawk linebacker that doesn't even start for the Hawks.. NOW that is UNLUCKY..  Ha....Ha...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you forget the pass Eli threw was a HAIL MARY?
Click to expand...


No, a *HAIL MARY *sails into the end zone.  That pass was not a hair mary.  Try again....


----------



## fbj

eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL


----------



## ChrisL

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was third down, they had another down. Not time for a hail mary
> 
> You dont know what Eli saw down the field. He obviously saw a receiver he thought he could get the ball to. He threw a pass that only Tyree could get to and made the play
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he threw the pass up for grabs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No he didn't. Tyree was standing alone in the middle of the field. Defenders showed up after the pass was thrown. Too late
Click to expand...


Oh, who cares.  He won the game, but I still say he was lucky, definitely luck was on his side THAT game.  I can't remember any exact plays off the top of my head, except for those I already mentioned, but I remember at LEAST a few times being like WTF is going on here and also like how in the hell?


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL



I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.


----------



## fbj

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
Click to expand...


And it was the same thing, the defender comes near him and he gets scared and turns over the ball  lol


----------



## JimH52

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
Click to expand...


Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!

I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!  

I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.


----------



## ChrisL

JimH52 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
Click to expand...


Hmm.    You can always tell the ones who are jelly of Tom Brady and the Pats.  You think Tom will be in the HoF someday?  I do.    Not only is he hawt, but he's also awesome QB.  So put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Yeah, you'll get high off the awesomeness of the Pats.  Lol!


----------



## WinterBorn

ChrisL said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm.    You can always tell the ones who are jelly of Tom Brady and the Pats.  You think Tom will be in the HoF someday?  I do.    Not only is he hawt, but he's also awesome QB.  So put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Yeah, you'll get high off the awesomeness of the Pats.  Lol!
Click to expand...


He is an excellent QB, and I think he will be a HoFer one day.

As for his hotness....well.....he is built all wrong for me to see him as hot.


----------



## ChrisL

WinterBorn said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.    You can always tell the ones who are jelly of Tom Brady and the Pats.  You think Tom will be in the HoF someday?  I do.    Not only is he hawt, but he's also awesome QB.  So put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Yeah, you'll get high off the awesomeness of the Pats.  Lol!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is an excellent QB, and I think he will be a HoFer one day.
> 
> As for his hotness....well.....he is built all wrong for me to see him as hot.
Click to expand...


Lol!  Well, take my word for it, he is super hot!    He can be a little dorky sometimes though, but heck nobody's perfect.


----------



## WinterBorn

ChrisL said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.    You can always tell the ones who are jelly of Tom Brady and the Pats.  You think Tom will be in the HoF someday?  I do.    Not only is he hawt, but he's also awesome QB.  So put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Yeah, you'll get high off the awesomeness of the Pats.  Lol!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is an excellent QB, and I think he will be a HoFer one day.
> 
> As for his hotness....well.....he is built all wrong for me to see him as hot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol!  Well, take my word for it, he is super hot!    He can be a little dorky sometimes though, but heck nobody's perfect.
Click to expand...


I can see the appeal.  I am not gay but I am also not blind.   My gf might think him hot, but I am not attracted to the guy types.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
Click to expand...


somethings never change,another year,different offensive coordinater,same results. Looks like the same old manning.the fact that they just barely beat the bills,another crappy team,is telling.


----------



## rightwinger

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> somethings never change,another year,different offensive coordinater,same results. Looks like the same old manning.the fact that they just barely beat the bills,another crappy team,is telling.
Click to expand...


Eli didn't beat the Bills

The Giants third string beat the Bills third string


----------



## LA RAM FAN

JimH52 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> eli has his 1st turnover tonight because the defense was in his world  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
Click to expand...


that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season. 

I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well. 

 It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.


----------



## JimH52

9/11 inside job said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season.
> 
> I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well.
> 
> It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.
Click to expand...


Yes, it was a thing of beauty.  And coincidentally, Billicheat has not had his club back to win the Super Bowl since his Cam Corder was taken away.  REAL football fans will always remember that little detail.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

JimH52 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season.
> 
> I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well.
> 
> It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it was a thing of beauty.  And coincidentally, Billicheat has not had his club back to win the Super Bowl since his Cam Corder was taken away.  REAL football fans will always remember that little detail.
Click to expand...



I have a feeling were in for some more Belecheat entertainment this year because something that I know you'll find entertaining now is that one of the patriot players was saying after the superbowl that he was glad they lost that AFC title game to the donkeys because had they won and gone on to the superbowl,they would have been the team that would have suffered getting humilated by the seahawks instead of the donkeys and had that happened,Tom Bradys legacy would have REALLY  taken a big hit from that loss getting blown out like they would have.

Bradys legacy would have really taken a major hit much worse than Mannings did because Mannings legacy prior to that,had already been very questionable.He hasnt been able to shake the label that he puts up impressive numbers in the regular season but when he faces top notch competition in big games,he chokes.

 except for all the naive people who picked the donkeys to win the superbowl last year not understanding that Manning hadnt faced a defense anything like the seahawks all year long,for the people like me who knew better,it was no surprise whatsoever to see him play so bad in that game because he has yet to shed that reputation that he chokes in big games against top notch competetion so HIS legacy was ALREADY damaged at that point and he just added fuel to the fire in that superbowl where with Brady,in the last two superbowls he had a chance to win those games in the final two minutes so had it been the pats that went on and played the superbowl,it would have been brady instead of manning suffering a humilating defeat like the donkeys did instead and since Brady had never suffered a superbowl loss with a blowout before,HIS legacy would have REALLY taken a huge hit much worse than mannings did.

The reason i think we are going to be in for some more great belecheat entertainment this year is because i think you are going to see those two teams in the  AFC championship game again because the ACF is so weak and the reason it will be funny is because since the donkeys have to play the NFC west teams this year,dont look for them to make it back to the superbowl.I think the AFC game will be in boston and on the road in playoff games,Manning doesnt do so well.

each time these two teams have played each other in the title game,the home team always went to the superbowl. I think Manning will be so physically beat up this year being a year older and having to play against the physical NFC west,that it will wear him out so badly that he wont play very well down the stretch and it will be bradys turn to get humilated by the seahawks in the superbowl this year.


----------



## fbj

I think Brady and Belechick has to win one more SB to not be seen as frauds when its all over and done with


----------



## JimH52

I actually respect Brady.  He is a very good QB.  His coach is the one that I think is very low.  How many AFC East Championships have the Patriots won because they cheated and recorded other teams?  It is hard to say.

I am not sure the Patriots will make it to the AFC Championship, but the Broncos will most likely make it.  Look for a wild card to come out of the AFC to challenge the Broncos.


----------



## JimH52

fbj said:


> I think Brady and Belechick has to win one more SB to not be seen as frauds when its all over and done with



I tend to agree and this year will be their best chance.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

JimH52 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Brady and Belechick has to win one more SB to not be seen as frauds when its all over and done with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to agree and this year will be their best chance.
Click to expand...


yeah same here.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

JimH52 said:


> I actually respect Brady.  He is a very good QB.  His coach is the one that I think is very low.  How many AFC East Championships have the Patriots won because they cheated and recorded other teams?  It is hard to say.
> 
> I am not sure the Patriots will make it to the AFC Championship, but the Broncos will most likely make it.  Look for a wild card to come out of the AFC to challenge the Broncos.



Naw with  how weak the AFC is i dont see the pats not making it back.They will have a lot of their players that were hurt on defense coming back this year like their middle run stuffer whatever his name was,he was a key loss for them.The pats were able to get by with those injurys in the regular season but against someone who matched up well against them,they were exposed. 

I dont see the donkeys making ot back to the ACF title game though.Manning has to be perfect in all his games and thats asking too much for him to duplicate last years performance.

I am pulling for the pats to make it to the superbowl because yeah,while I respect brady and all,I would love to see that overrated hack belecheat suffer a blowout loss.

Belecheat is the most overrated hack of a coach there ever was.If not for tom brady he would be nothing.Tom Brady saved his career from the toilet.Before Brady came along he was a miserable failure.a complete zero. he was a complete failure in cleveland when he was there. all of a sudden brady comes along and saves his career from the toilet and all of a sudden he is regarded as the greatest coach ever?

I have learned that my local radio sports station im my city,unlike ESPN and major sports like that,they arent afraid of bringing that up about belecheat how he was a failure at cleveland and are objective about those things unlike ESPN who goes around calling him the greatest coach ever and the reason why is  i have heard that if the people at ESPN and other main sports outlets like them dont kiss his ass,he wont grant them interviews and allow them to come into their locker room and interview him and the players there so privately,they will say they dont think he is much of a coach but on the airways when they go public,they kiss his ass so they can get interviews with him and the players.makes sense.

where my local sports station,the reason THEY are objective and dont kiss his ass like they do is because they dont care,they dont want to interview belecheat and his teammates because thats not their team so thats why THEY dont hold back and are more logical and objective when they say he is overrated and why THEY will bring up those facts how he was a failure at cleveland and  in his first season in NE before tom brady came along to save his career.

THEY dont care what belecheat thinks of them so they arent afraid to be objective and mention those facts about his failures at cleveland.at ESPN they wont talk about that on the airways and be objective about it cause they know if they tell the truth about him,they lose access to him and the players on that team so natuallly,they have to kiss his ass to get interviews with him.


----------



## fbj

9/11 inside job said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually respect Brady.  He is a very good QB.  His coach is the one that I think is very low.  How many AFC East Championships have the Patriots won because they cheated and recorded other teams?  It is hard to say.
> 
> I am not sure the Patriots will make it to the AFC Championship, but the Broncos will most likely make it.  Look for a wild card to come out of the AFC to challenge the Broncos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naw with  how weak the AFC is i dont see the pats not making it back.They will have a lot of their players that were hurt on defense coming back this year like their middle run stuffer whatever his name was,he was a key loss for them.The pats were able to get by with those injurys in the regular season but against someone who matched up well against them,they were exposed.
> 
> I dont see the donkeys making ot back to the ACF title game though.Manning has to be perfect in all his games and thats asking too much for him to duplicate last years performance.
> 
> I am pulling for the pats to make it to the superbowl because yeah,while I respect brady and all,I would love to see that overrated hack belecheat suffer a blowout loss.
> 
> Belecheat is the most overrated hack of a coach there ever was.If not for tom brady he would be nothing.Tom Brady savd his career from the toilet.Before Brady came along he was a miserable failure.a complete zero. he was a complete failure in cleveland when he was there. all of a sudden brady comes along and saves his career from the toiletand all of a sudden he is regarded as the greatest coach ever.
> 
> I have learned that my local radio sports station im my city,unlike ESPN and major sports like that,they arent afraid of brining that up about belecheat how he was a failure at cleveland and are objective about those things unlike ESPN who goes around calling him the greatest coach ever and the reason why is  i have heard that if the people at ESPN and other main sports outlets like them dont kiss his ass,he wont grant them interviews and allow them to come into their locker room and interview the players there so privately,they will say they dont hink he is much of a coach but on the airways when they go public,they kiss his ass so they cant get interviews with im and the players.makes sense.
> 
> where my local sports station,the reason they are objective and dont kiss his ass like they do is because they dont care,they dont want to interview belecheat and his teammates because thats not their team so thats why THEY dont hold back and are more logical and objective when they say he is overrated and why THEY will bring up those facts how he was a failure at cleveland and his first season in NE before tom brady came along to sabe his career.
> 
> THEY dont care what belecheat thinks of them so they arent afraid to be objective and mention those facts about his failures at cleveland.at ESPN they wont talk about that on the airways and be objective about it cause they know if they tell the trtuh about him,they losr access to him and the players on that team so natuallly,they have to kiss his ass to get interviews with him.
Click to expand...


Pats have GRONK back


----------



## LA RAM FAN

for how though,thats the question? hee hee


----------



## Montrovant

9/11 inside job said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Brady and Belechick has to win one more SB to not be seen as frauds when its all over and done with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to agree and this year will be their best chance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah same here.
Click to expand...


I think you are all crazy.  Both Brady and Belichick would be first ballot HoF inductees if they retired right now; both will be in the conversation for best ever at their respective positions on the team in the future.  You are over-emphasizing Spygate.  The Pats have been to the playoffs every season since Spygate except 2008, when they went 11-5 while Brady was hurt.  They've been to two conference championship games and another Super Bowl.

Brady has long been compared to Montana, who many consider the best QB ever.  Belichick has been described as the best coach of his generation and his record is superb.

Now, if you don't like either man, or don't think they are near the top of the all time list at what they do, that's fine....but the idea that they will be considered frauds for continuing to be successful after Spygate but not quite winning another Super Bowl seems silly to me.


----------



## ChrisL

Montrovant said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to agree and this year will be their best chance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah same here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you are all crazy.  Both Brady and Belichick would be first ballot HoF inductees if they retired right now; both will be in the conversation for best ever at their respective positions on the team in the future.  You are over-emphasizing Spygate.  The Pats have been to the playoffs every season since Spygate except 2008, when they went 11-5 while Brady was hurt.  They've been to two conference championship games and another Super Bowl.
> 
> Brady has long been compared to Montana, who many consider the best QB ever.  Belichick has been described as the best coach of his generation and his record is superb.
> 
> Now, if you don't like either man, or don't think they are near the top of the all time list at what they do, that's fine....but the idea that they will be considered frauds for continuing to be successful after Spygate but not quite winning another Super Bowl seems silly to me.
Click to expand...


Right?  And don't tell me that any of those doing the whining wouldn't take either Bill or Brady right now if they could.    We know, they know it, everybody knows it!


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be petty and say this, but ha-ha Eli!    I hope he gets lots of turnovers this year.  I don't like him because of that SB with the Pats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season.
> 
> I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well.
> 
> It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.
Click to expand...


Wow!  Someone who dwells on something that happened . . .  how many years ago?  Obviously a hater.


----------



## ChrisL

JimH52 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season.
> 
> I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well.
> 
> It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it was a thing of beauty.  And coincidentally, Billicheat has not had his club back to win the Super Bowl since his Cam Corder was taken away.  REAL football fans will always remember that little detail.
Click to expand...


Oh please.  Who is your team anyway since you feel you can talk smack.  Let's make this fair.    Fess up.


----------



## ChrisL

JimH52 said:


> I actually respect Brady.  He is a very good QB.  His coach is the one that I think is very low.  How many AFC East Championships have the Patriots won because they cheated and recorded other teams?  It is hard to say.
> 
> I am not sure the Patriots will make it to the AFC Championship, but the Broncos will most likely make it.  Look for a wild card to come out of the AFC to challenge the Broncos.



Are you for real?  Do you really think Bill is the only one to have done this?  You think he invented that do you?


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season.
> 
> I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well.
> 
> It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it was a thing of beauty.  And coincidentally, Billicheat has not had his club back to win the Super Bowl since his Cam Corder was taken away.  REAL football fans will always remember that little detail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *I have a feeling were in for some more Belecheat entertainment this year because something that I know you'll find entertaining now is that one of the patriot players was saying after the superbowl that he was glad they lost that AFC title game to the donkeys because had they won and gone on to the superbowl,they would have been the team that would have suffered getting humilated by the seahawks instead of the donkeys and had that happened,Tom Bradys legacy would have REALLY  taken a big hit from that loss getting blown out like they would have.*
> 
> Bradys legacy would have really taken a major hit much worse than Mannings did because Mannings legacy prior to that,had already been very questionable.He hasnt been able to shake the label that he puts up impressive numbers in the regular season but when he faces top notch competition in big games,he chokes.
> 
> except for all the naive people who picked the donkeys to win the superbowl last year not understanding that Manning hadnt faced a defense anything like the seahawks all year long,for the people like me who knew better,it was no surprise whatsoever to see him play so bad in that game because he has yet to shed that reputation that he chokes in big games against top notch competetion so HIS legacy was ALREADY damaged at that point and he just added fuel to the fire in that superbowl where with Brady,in the last two superbowls he had a chance to win those games in the final two minutes so had it been the pats that went on and played the superbowl,it would have been brady instead of manning suffering a humilating defeat like the donkeys did instead and since Brady had never suffered a superbowl loss with a blowout before,HIS legacy would have REALLY taken a huge hit much worse than mannings did.
> 
> The reason i think we are going to be in for some more great belecheat entertainment this year is because i think you are going to see those two teams in the  AFC championship game again because the ACF is so weak and the reason it will be funny is because since the donkeys have to play the NFC west teams this year,dont look for them to make it back to the superbowl.I think the AFC game will be in boston and on the road in playoff games,Manning doesnt do so well.
> 
> each time these two teams have played each other in the title game,the home team always went to the superbowl. I think Manning will be so physically beat up this year being a year older and having to play against the physical NFC west,that it will wear him out so badly that he wont play very well down the stretch and it will be bradys turn to get humilated by the seahawks in the superbowl this year.
Click to expand...


Whaaaat?  What kind of crazy rant is this?    Links or it didn't happen.


----------



## HUGGY

Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.

That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.

If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.

They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it was a thing of beauty.  And coincidentally, Billicheat has not had his club back to win the Super Bowl since his Cam Corder was taken away.  REAL football fans will always remember that little detail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I have a feeling were in for some more Belecheat entertainment this year because something that I know you'll find entertaining now is that one of the patriot players was saying after the superbowl that he was glad they lost that AFC title game to the donkeys because had they won and gone on to the superbowl,they would have been the team that would have suffered getting humilated by the seahawks instead of the donkeys and had that happened,Tom Bradys legacy would have REALLY  taken a big hit from that loss getting blown out like they would have.*
> 
> Bradys legacy would have really taken a major hit much worse than Mannings did because Mannings legacy prior to that,had already been very questionable.He hasnt been able to shake the label that he puts up impressive numbers in the regular season but when he faces top notch competition in big games,he chokes.
> 
> except for all the naive people who picked the donkeys to win the superbowl last year not understanding that Manning hadnt faced a defense anything like the seahawks all year long,for the people like me who knew better,it was no surprise whatsoever to see him play so bad in that game because he has yet to shed that reputation that he chokes in big games against top notch competetion so HIS legacy was ALREADY damaged at that point and he just added fuel to the fire in that superbowl where with Brady,in the last two superbowls he had a chance to win those games in the final two minutes so had it been the pats that went on and played the superbowl,it would have been brady instead of manning suffering a humilating defeat like the donkeys did instead and since Brady had never suffered a superbowl loss with a blowout before,HIS legacy would have REALLY taken a huge hit much worse than mannings did.
> 
> The reason i think we are going to be in for some more great belecheat entertainment this year is because i think you are going to see those two teams in the  AFC championship game again because the ACF is so weak and the reason it will be funny is because since the donkeys have to play the NFC west teams this year,dont look for them to make it back to the superbowl.I think the AFC game will be in boston and on the road in playoff games,Manning doesnt do so well.
> 
> each time these two teams have played each other in the title game,the home team always went to the superbowl. I think Manning will be so physically beat up this year being a year older and having to play against the physical NFC west,that it will wear him out so badly that he wont play very well down the stretch and it will be bradys turn to get humilated by the seahawks in the superbowl this year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whaaaat?  What kind of crazy rant is this?    Links or it didn't happen.
Click to expand...


yeah right like EVERYTHING is going to be on the net. the net doesnt print EVERYTHING thats posted in newspapers.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

HUGGY said:


> Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.
> 
> That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.
> 
> If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.
> 
> They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.



they they will have no choice by that time to admit that they are the new dynasty.


----------



## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.
> 
> That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.
> 
> If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.
> 
> They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.



Once your legacy is built it does not take a hit. Didn't affect Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Joe Namath

If Eli Manning has a decent line and his receivers are healthy, he will have a good year
If not, he and the team will struggle


----------



## LA RAM FAN

ChrisL said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why, because the Giants embarrassed the Cheating Putriots and made their coach storm off the field before the game was over?  IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL SITES I HAVE EVER SEEN!
> 
> I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and if I watch the replay today.....I LAUGH SOME MORE!
> 
> I am sure Billicheat is coming up with some more devious ways to get around NFL rules and since his owner and Roger G are butt buddies, he will probably get away with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season.
> 
> I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well.
> 
> It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow!  Someone who dwells on something that happened . . .  how many years ago?  Obviously a hater.
Click to expand...


obviously someone who cant stand to hear critisem of Belecheat. damn right I hate cheaters.especially overrated hacks who get billed as the greatest coach ever when they were a miserable failure with a previous team and is only called the greatest coach now because a rare great named Tom Brady came along and saved it from the toilet where he was stuck before brady his career.

I cant wait till Brady retires.then the whole world will see what an overrated hack of a coach he really is when he doesnt have him there to make him look good anymore. They used to say the same thing about Mike Shannahan when Elway was winning superbowls for him that he was a genius but once Elway retired,he was exposed for the overrated hack he was.same thing will happen to Belecheat in a couple years or so especially since the guy they drafted to replace him for the future was a BACKUP in college.


----------



## Montrovant

9/11 inside job said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> that was really sweet seeing Belecheat lose that superbowl.It was especially sweet since victory was right there in his grasp,that if they make that play and sack Manning on fourth down,they walk away winning that game and top the dolphins as having the best undefeated season in NFL history but because of that miracle play,the Giants go on and win and the pats have that one blemish on their season.
> 
> I guarantee that superbowl lost was severely depressing to both the players and Belecheat.  O guarantee that because  one of the dolphin players from the 72 undefeated team said years later that had they not won that superbowl,winning all those games in the regular season would have meant absolutlely nothing to them.That it would have all been for nothing had they lost.so i guarantee you,the pats players were feeling the same way about that season as well.
> 
> It was so sweet,it was right there in their grasp and they were being teased to go on and win it all and break a record but it got snatched away from them in the final two minutes of that game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!  Someone who dwells on something that happened . . .  how many years ago?  Obviously a hater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> obviously someone who cant stand to hear critisem of Belecheat. damn right I hate cheaters.especially overrated hacks who get billed as the greatest coach ever when they were a miserable failure with a previous team and is only called the greatest coach now because a rare great named Tom Brady came along and saved it from the toilet where he was stuck before brady his career.
> 
> I cant wait till Brady retires.then the whole world will see what an overrated hack of a coach he really is when he doesnt have him there to make him look good anymore. They used to say the same thing about Mike Shannahan when Elway was winning superbowls for him that he was a genius but once Elway retired,he was exposed for the overrated hack he was.same thing will happen to Belecheat in a couple years or so especially since the guy they drafted to replace him for the future was a BACKUP in college.
Click to expand...


The Pats went 11-5 without Brady....


----------



## LA RAM FAN

Montrovant said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow!  Someone who dwells on something that happened . . .  how many years ago?  Obviously a hater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obviously someone who cant stand to hear critisem of Belecheat. damn right I hate cheaters.especially overrated hacks who get billed as the greatest coach ever when they were a miserable failure with a previous team and is only called the greatest coach now because a rare great named Tom Brady came along and saved it from the toilet where he was stuck before brady his career.
> 
> I cant wait till Brady retires.then the whole world will see what an overrated hack of a coach he really is when he doesnt have him there to make him look good anymore. They used to say the same thing about Mike Shannahan when Elway was winning superbowls for him that he was a genius but once Elway retired,he was exposed for the overrated hack he was.same thing will happen to Belecheat in a couple years or so especially since the guy they drafted to replace him for the future was a BACKUP in college.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Pats went 11-5 without Brady....
Click to expand...


when you got randy moss to throw to who was at that time playing the game with love and passion and was being considered at the time as comparable to jerry rice before eventually becoming a slacker,you could have put me or you back there and you would have had a great offense to light up the boards and of course win lots  of games .

the chiefs also went 10-6 one time with the same quarterback that year when they had todd haley so i guess that means todd haley is automatically a good coach by that logic  or it COULD be that was just a fluke year for haley and belecheat,the much more realistic explanation.


----------



## JimH52

I still say that Billicheat stole AFC East championships when he was cheating.  It is hard to tell how many.  I know lots of fans from other teams that feel the same way.


----------



## LA RAM FAN

players of the rams even warner and faulk have said they have their doubts on if he cheated in that superbowl  saying they found it odd they knew exactly what plays they were calling.the fact that goddel destroyed the evidence of all  of their practice games afterwards speaks volumns on his credibility.

after they cheated and won that superbowl,they then gained confidance knowing they could cheat.Goddel has hurt the intregrity of the game allowing him to stay in the NFL especially since MLB banned pete rose for betting on games.Rose gets banned for betting on games yet Belecheat gets off scott free.


----------



## ChrisL

fbj said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually respect Brady.  He is a very good QB.  His coach is the one that I think is very low.  How many AFC East Championships have the Patriots won because they cheated and recorded other teams?  It is hard to say.
> 
> I am not sure the Patriots will make it to the AFC Championship, but the Broncos will most likely make it.  Look for a wild card to come out of the AFC to challenge the Broncos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naw with  how weak the AFC is i dont see the pats not making it back.They will have a lot of their players that were hurt on defense coming back this year like their middle run stuffer whatever his name was,he was a key loss for them.The pats were able to get by with those injurys in the regular season but against someone who matched up well against them,they were exposed.
> 
> I dont see the donkeys making ot back to the ACF title game though.Manning has to be perfect in all his games and thats asking too much for him to duplicate last years performance.
> 
> I am pulling for the pats to make it to the superbowl because yeah,while I respect brady and all,I would love to see that overrated hack belecheat suffer a blowout loss.
> 
> Belecheat is the most overrated hack of a coach there ever was.If not for tom brady he would be nothing.Tom Brady savd his career from the toilet.Before Brady came along he was a miserable failure.a complete zero. he was a complete failure in cleveland when he was there. all of a sudden brady comes along and saves his career from the toiletand all of a sudden he is regarded as the greatest coach ever.
> 
> I have learned that my local radio sports station im my city,unlike ESPN and major sports like that,they arent afraid of brining that up about belecheat how he was a failure at cleveland and are objective about those things unlike ESPN who goes around calling him the greatest coach ever and the reason why is  i have heard that if the people at ESPN and other main sports outlets like them dont kiss his ass,he wont grant them interviews and allow them to come into their locker room and interview the players there so privately,they will say they dont hink he is much of a coach but on the airways when they go public,they kiss his ass so they cant get interviews with im and the players.makes sense.
> 
> where my local sports station,the reason they are objective and dont kiss his ass like they do is because they dont care,they dont want to interview belecheat and his teammates because thats not their team so thats why THEY dont hold back and are more logical and objective when they say he is overrated and why THEY will bring up those facts how he was a failure at cleveland and his first season in NE before tom brady came along to sabe his career.
> 
> THEY dont care what belecheat thinks of them so they arent afraid to be objective and mention those facts about his failures at cleveland.at ESPN they wont talk about that on the airways and be objective about it cause they know if they tell the trtuh about him,they losr access to him and the players on that team so natuallly,they have to kiss his ass to get interviews with him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pats have GRONK back
Click to expand...


And Darrelle Revis.


----------



## rightwinger

ChrisL said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> Naw with  how weak the AFC is i dont see the pats not making it back.They will have a lot of their players that were hurt on defense coming back this year like their middle run stuffer whatever his name was,he was a key loss for them.The pats were able to get by with those injurys in the regular season but against someone who matched up well against them,they were exposed.
> 
> I dont see the donkeys making ot back to the ACF title game though.Manning has to be perfect in all his games and thats asking too much for him to duplicate last years performance.
> 
> I am pulling for the pats to make it to the superbowl because yeah,while I respect brady and all,I would love to see that overrated hack belecheat suffer a blowout loss.
> 
> Belecheat is the most overrated hack of a coach there ever was.If not for tom brady he would be nothing.Tom Brady savd his career from the toilet.Before Brady came along he was a miserable failure.a complete zero. he was a complete failure in cleveland when he was there. all of a sudden brady comes along and saves his career from the toiletand all of a sudden he is regarded as the greatest coach ever.
> 
> I have learned that my local radio sports station im my city,unlike ESPN and major sports like that,they arent afraid of brining that up about belecheat how he was a failure at cleveland and are objective about those things unlike ESPN who goes around calling him the greatest coach ever and the reason why is  i have heard that if the people at ESPN and other main sports outlets like them dont kiss his ass,he wont grant them interviews and allow them to come into their locker room and interview the players there so privately,they will say they dont hink he is much of a coach but on the airways when they go public,they kiss his ass so they cant get interviews with im and the players.makes sense.
> 
> where my local sports station,the reason they are objective and dont kiss his ass like they do is because they dont care,they dont want to interview belecheat and his teammates because thats not their team so thats why THEY dont hold back and are more logical and objective when they say he is overrated and why THEY will bring up those facts how he was a failure at cleveland and his first season in NE before tom brady came along to sabe his career.
> 
> THEY dont care what belecheat thinks of them so they arent afraid to be objective and mention those facts about his failures at cleveland.at ESPN they wont talk about that on the airways and be objective about it cause they know if they tell the trtuh about him,they losr access to him and the players on that team so natuallly,they have to kiss his ass to get interviews with him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pats have GRONK back
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Darrelle Revis.
Click to expand...


Neither will last the season


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.
> 
> That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.
> 
> If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.
> 
> They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once your legacy is built it does not take a hit. Didn't affect Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Joe Namath
> 
> If Eli Manning has a decent line and his receivers are healthy, he will have a good year
> If not, he and the team will struggle
Click to expand...


I can say the same thing about Romo


----------



## ChrisL

rightwinger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pats have GRONK back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Darrelle Revis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither will last the season
Click to expand...


What a ridiculous comment!  






Maybe I can borrow that crystal ball sometime.


----------



## Montrovant

9/11 inside job said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> obviously someone who cant stand to hear critisem of Belecheat. damn right I hate cheaters.especially overrated hacks who get billed as the greatest coach ever when they were a miserable failure with a previous team and is only called the greatest coach now because a rare great named Tom Brady came along and saved it from the toilet where he was stuck before brady his career.
> 
> I cant wait till Brady retires.then the whole world will see what an overrated hack of a coach he really is when he doesnt have him there to make him look good anymore. They used to say the same thing about Mike Shannahan when Elway was winning superbowls for him that he was a genius but once Elway retired,he was exposed for the overrated hack he was.same thing will happen to Belecheat in a couple years or so especially since the guy they drafted to replace him for the future was a BACKUP in college.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pats went 11-5 without Brady....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> when you got randy moss to throw to who was at that time playing the game with love and passion and was being considered at the time as comparable to jerry rice before eventually becoming a slacker,you could have put me or you back there and you would have had a great offense to light up the boards and of course win lots  of games .
> 
> the chiefs also went 10-6 one time with the same quarterback that year when they had todd haley so i guess that means todd haley is automatically a good coach by that logic  or it COULD be that was just a fluke year for haley and belecheat,the much more realistic explanation.
Click to expand...


You said Belichick would be shown to be an overrated hack once Brady is gone.  I showed you that in a full season without Brady, his team still went 11-5.  Your Haley comparison is pretty senseless.

And by your logic, since having a great receiver means even a crappy QB will be able to 'light up the boards and of course win lots of games', the Lions should have been going to the playoffs for years now, right?  Or is Calvin Johnson not that good?  Are you aware that the Vikings failed to make the playoffs for 3 straight seasons while Moss played for the team?


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.
> 
> That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.
> 
> If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.
> 
> They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once your legacy is built it does not take a hit. Didn't affect Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Joe Namath
> 
> If Eli Manning has a decent line and his receivers are healthy, he will have a good year
> If not, he and the team will struggle
Click to expand...


There was a time before the internet when a "legacy" could be managed and/or preserved.

Many NFL QBs that had great runs and won many championships went on to other teams late in their carears ending up playing poorly or had no other super athletes to throw to or hand the ball off to and it did nothing to their legacys.

Now there is so much public inspection and discussion of every little thing that who really knows how much weight all the video clips and blogs and message boards will have as time goes on and the "what have you done for us lately" question gets asked publicly.

There may come a time sooner than later when a super star athlete considers retiring at or near the zienith of his body of work rather than have his "legacy" eroded by a drop off of his own skills or being in a circumstance beyond his control causing his stats and W/L record to take a hit.


----------



## fbj

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.
> 
> That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.
> 
> If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.
> 
> They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once your legacy is built it does not take a hit. Didn't affect Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Joe Namath
> 
> If Eli Manning has a decent line and his receivers are healthy, he will have a good year
> If not, he and the team will struggle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was a time before the internet when a "legacy" could be managed and/or preserved.
> 
> Many NFL QBs that had great runs and won many championships went on to other teams late in their carears ending up playing poorly or had no other super athletes to throw to or hand the ball off to and it did nothing to their legacys.
> 
> Now there is so much public inspection and discussion of every little thing that who really knows how much weight all the video clips and blogs and message boards will have as time goes on and the "what have you done for us lately" question gets asked publicly.
> 
> There may come a time sooner than later when a super star athlete considers retiring at or near the zienith of his body of work rather than have his "legacy" eroded by a drop off of his own skills or being in a circumstance beyond his control causing his stats and W/L record to take a hit.
Click to expand...


both SB teams was because of the running game and defense, nothing to do with Eli


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.
> 
> That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.
> 
> If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.
> 
> They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once your legacy is built it does not take a hit. Didn't affect Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Joe Namath
> 
> If Eli Manning has a decent line and his receivers are healthy, he will have a good year
> If not, he and the team will struggle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can say the same thing about Romo
Click to expand...


Romo won't last the season


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once your legacy is built it does not take a hit. Didn't affect Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Joe Namath
> 
> If Eli Manning has a decent line and his receivers are healthy, he will have a good year
> If not, he and the team will struggle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a time before the internet when a "legacy" could be managed and/or preserved.
> 
> Many NFL QBs that had great runs and won many championships went on to other teams late in their carears ending up playing poorly or had no other super athletes to throw to or hand the ball off to and it did nothing to their legacys.
> 
> Now there is so much public inspection and discussion of every little thing that who really knows how much weight all the video clips and blogs and message boards will have as time goes on and the "what have you done for us lately" question gets asked publicly.
> 
> There may come a time sooner than later when a super star athlete considers retiring at or near the zienith of his body of work rather than have his "legacy" eroded by a drop off of his own skills or being in a circumstance beyond his control causing his stats and W/L record to take a hit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> both SB teams was because of the running game and defense, nothing to do with Eli
Click to expand...


Fourth quarter comebacks with the game on the line had everything to do with Eli. Especially when you have to drive your team 85 yards for winning touchdowns, Eli did it TWICE. Only two other quarterbacks have managed to do it once


----------



## TruthSeeker56

fbj said:


> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?



Eli Manning's TEAM has won two Super Bowls.

Eli Manning's TEAM missed the playoffs two seasons in a row.

Eli Manning's TEAM started last year 0-6.

Eli Manning has not had the receiving corps, or the offensive lines, or the running games, that his brother Peyton has enjoyed throughout his career.

The Giants, as a TEAM, have been a MESS offensively, due to injuries, free agency losses, and an overall lack of talent. Their defense has not been much better.

I am not an Eli Manning fan, but the man played his ass off in both Super Bowl victories, and showed me he was a big game WINNER, unlike his older brother.

Have the Manning brothers switch teams for a couple of seasons, and see who adapts better to their new team.

I would LOVE to see Peyton Manning play on a team with no offensive line, no wide receivers, and a haphazard running game. He would be on the disabled list faster than he could say "Better ingredients, better pizza, Papa Johns".

By the way, I am a diehard New England Patriots fan.


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a time before the internet when a "legacy" could be managed and/or preserved.
> 
> Many NFL QBs that had great runs and won many championships went on to other teams late in their carears ending up playing poorly or had no other super athletes to throw to or hand the ball off to and it did nothing to their legacys.
> 
> Now there is so much public inspection and discussion of every little thing that who really knows how much weight all the video clips and blogs and message boards will have as time goes on and the "what have you done for us lately" question gets asked publicly.
> 
> There may come a time sooner than later when a super star athlete considers retiring at or near the zienith of his body of work rather than have his "legacy" eroded by a drop off of his own skills or being in a circumstance beyond his control causing his stats and W/L record to take a hit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> both SB teams was because of the running game and defense, nothing to do with Eli
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fourth quarter comebacks with the game on the line had everything to do with Eli. Especially when you have to drive your team 85 yards for winning touchdowns, Eli did it TWICE. Only two other quarterbacks have managed to do it once
Click to expand...


So using your logic... Eli Manning played better in his Super Bowls than Russell Wilson because he came from behind down a TD in the fourth qtr.  Russell Wilson was up 36-0 until the last play of the third qtr so clearly he played worse than Manning..


----------



## LA RAM FAN

TruthSeeker56 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> By the way, I am a diehard New England Patriots fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we gathered that after that thread you created where you went on a laughable rant showing how deluded you are,that you live in a fantasyland that seahawks might miss the playoffs this year, even though their schedule this year is even easier than last years.
> 
> Had you just stopped with saying they wont repeat,that they will be lucky if they get to the NFC championship game, you would have credibility around here but you lost any you had whatsoever saying they may not make it to the playoffs.
> 
> Its funny how you deny reality that the AFC is so weak thats the ONLY reason the donkeys and cheatriots will face each other again in the title game is because of that.
> 
> again since you hate the seahawks so much,you better hope the seahawks have key multiple injurys down the road since you obviously have a vendetta against them because thats the ONLY way they dont go back to the superbowl and destroy your chetriots making them the newest victem of their physical defense they wont be able to handle.
> 
> your memory is so bad that you cant even remember the game they had two years ago in seattle where the defense,after giving up a couple touchdowns early in that game in the first half stiffened and came back and beat your cheatriots in the second half.
> 
> the only reason that game was as close as it was is because it was Russel wilsons first season as a starter early on in the year when he was still trying to learn the game and figure out how to be a consistant quarterback and playing with hangcuffs on him at the time not taking chances with the football so they couldnt muster much on offense till later on when the pats defense got tired in the second half and wislon was finally able to wear them down while still learning the game at the time.
> 
> from that pathetic thread of yours you created,you obviously were one of those people back then that i mocked for their stupidity picking the donkeys to win the superbowl.
> 
> you were on crack back then picking the donkeys to win just like you were on crack recently when you made that pathetic thread saying the seahawks might not make the playoffs this year.
> 
> as i said on that thread of yours,because of how pitiful and weak the AFC is,the donkeys are the cheatriots only serious challenge.the pats  schedule is even easier than the seahawks shedule is this year.
> 
> The donkeys,since they have to play the tough physical NFC west this year,will have to go on the road to play your pats in the AFC title game so the pats will be the newest victem of the seahawks who get their asses kicked and humiliated in the superbowl by them.
> 
> The cheatriots will find out the same thing the donkeys did last year.that they wont be able to handle a defense like nothing they have seen before since two years ago when they last faced the hawks,it will be way too much for them to handle and also suffer a blowout as well.
> 
> the chetriots will be able to beat up on pitiful patsys the entire year in the weak  AFC for their competition  having to face patsys in their division that are weak. The jets who dont have a quarterback,the bills who are in the same boat rebuilding with a quarterback who is a question mark,and the dolphins,whos quarterback is a question mark as well while the seahawks play in the toughest division in the league because they all have punishing physical defenses far more physical than other NFL teams around the league that they have to face TWICE a year.
> 
> facing the donkeys defense was paradise for them after facing the NFC west teams twice yearly. so will the cheatriiots defense.
> 
> the donkeys are going to counting their blessings they only have to face the NFC west teams just ONCE this year.
Click to expand...


----------



## Montrovant

9/11 inside job said:


> TruthSeeker56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> By the way, I am a diehard New England Patriots fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we gathered that after that thread you created where you went on a laughable rant showing how deluded you are,that you live in a fantasyland that seahawks might miss the playoffs this year, even though their schedule this year is even easier than last years.
> 
> Had you just stopped with saying they wont repeat,that they will be lucky if they get to the NFC championship game, you would have credibility around here but you lost any you had whatsoever saying they may not make it to the playoffs.
> 
> Its funny how you deny reality that the AFC is so weak thats the ONLY reason the donkeys and cheatriots will face each other again in the title game is because of that.
> 
> again since you hate the seahawks so much,you better hope the seahawks have key multiple injurys down the road since you obviously have a vendetta against them because thats the ONLY way they dont go back to the superbowl and destroy your chetriots making them the newest victem of their physical defense they wont be able to handle.
> 
> your memory is so bad that you cant even remember the game they had two years ago in seattle where the defense,after giving up a couple touchdowns early in that game in the first half stiffened and came back and beat your cheatriots in the second half.
> 
> the only reason that game was as close as it was is because it was Russel wilsons first season as a starter early on in the year when he was still trying to learn the game and figure out how to be a consistant quarterback and playing with hangcuffs on him at the time not taking chances with the football so they couldnt muster much on offense till later on when the pats defense got tired in the second half and wislon was finally able to wear them down while still learning the game at the time.
> 
> from that pathetic thread of yours you created,you obviously were one of those people back then that i mocked for their stupidity picking the donkeys to win the superbowl.
> 
> you were on crack back then picking the donkeys to win just like you were on crack recently when you made that pathetic thread saying the seahawks might not make the playoffs this year.
> 
> as i said on that thread of yours,because of how pitiful and weak the AFC is,the donkeys are the cheatriots only serious challenge.the pats  schedule is even easier than the seahawks shedule is this year.
> 
> The donkeys,since they have to play the tough physical NFC west this year,will have to go on the road to play your pats in the AFC title game so the pats will be the newest victem of the seahawks who get their asses kicked and humiliated in the superbowl by them.
> 
> The cheatriots will find out the same thing the donkeys did last year.that they wont be able to handle a defense like nothing they have seen before since two years ago when they last faced the hawks,it will be way too much for them to handle and also suffer a blowout as well.
> 
> the chetriots will be able to beat up on pitiful patsys the entire year in the weak  AFC for their competition  having to face patsys in their division that are weak. The jets who dont have a quarterback,the bills who are in the same boat rebuilding with a quarterback who is a question mark,and the dolphins,whos quarterback is a question mark as well while the seahawks play in the toughest division in the league because they all have punishing physical defenses far more physical than other NFL teams around the league that they have to face TWICE a year.
> 
> facing the donkeys defense was paradise for them after facing the NFC west teams twice yearly. so will the cheatriiots defense.
> 
> the donkeys are going to counting their blessings they only have to face the NFC west teams just ONCE this year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While I expect the Seahawks to return to the playoffs, it's entirely possible they miss it.  Besides the Super Bowl hangover to worry about, the NFC West is the toughest division in football.  If the Cardinals have improved at all and the Niners can continue to play as well as they have so far under Harbaugh, it wouldn't be completely crazy to imagine the Hawks going 10-6 and missing the playoffs.
Click to expand...


----------



## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> both SB teams was because of the running game and defense, nothing to do with Eli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fourth quarter comebacks with the game on the line had everything to do with Eli. Especially when you have to drive your team 85 yards for winning touchdowns, Eli did it TWICE. Only two other quarterbacks have managed to do it once
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So using your logic... Eli Manning played better in his Super Bowls than Russell Wilson because he came from behind down a TD in the fourth qtr.  Russell Wilson was up 36-0 until the last play of the third qtr so clearly he played worse than Manning..
Click to expand...


Abso-fucking-lutely Eli's heroics were better than Wilson's 206 yards passing


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fourth quarter comebacks with the game on the line had everything to do with Eli. Especially when you have to drive your team 85 yards for winning touchdowns, Eli did it TWICE. Only two other quarterbacks have managed to do it once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So using your logic... Eli Manning played better in his Super Bowls than Russell Wilson because he came from behind down a TD in the fourth qtr.  Russell Wilson was up 36-0 until the last play of the third qtr so clearly he played worse than Manning..
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abso-fucking-lutely Eli's heroics were better than Wilson's 206 yards passing
Click to expand...



Eli is nowhere near the level of Wilson when it comes to being a NFL QB


----------



## rightwinger

fbj said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> So using your logic... Eli Manning played better in his Super Bowls than Russell Wilson because he came from behind down a TD in the fourth qtr.  Russell Wilson was up 36-0 until the last play of the third qtr so clearly he played worse than Manning..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abso-fucking-lutely Eli's heroics were better than Wilson's 206 yards passing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Eli is nowhere near the level of Wilson when it comes to being a NFL QB
Click to expand...


You funny


----------



## fbj

rightwinger said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abso-fucking-lutely Eli's heroics were better than Wilson's 206 yards passing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eli is nowhere near the level of Wilson when it comes to being a NFL QB
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You funny
Click to expand...


Oh lawd, so now you going to tell me is better than Wilson?   I am going to to the toilet


----------



## TruthSeeker56

9/11 inside job said:


> TruthSeeker56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> 
> By the way, I am a diehard New England Patriots fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we gathered that after that thread you created where you went on a laughable rant showing how deluded you are,that you live in a fantasyland that seahawks might miss the playoffs this year, even though their schedule this year is even easier than last years.
> 
> Had you just stopped with saying they wont repeat,that they will be lucky if they get to the NFC championship game, you would have credibility around here but you lost any you had whatsoever saying they may not make it to the playoffs.
> 
> Its funny how you deny reality that the AFC is so weak thats the ONLY reason the donkeys and cheatriots will face each other again in the title game is because of that.
> 
> again since you hate the seahawks so much,you better hope the seahawks have key multiple injurys down the road since you obviously have a vendetta against them because thats the ONLY way they dont go back to the superbowl and destroy your chetriots making them the newest victem of their physical defense they wont be able to handle.
> 
> your memory is so bad that you cant even remember the game they had two years ago in seattle where the defense,after giving up a couple touchdowns early in that game in the first half stiffened and came back and beat your cheatriots in the second half.
> 
> the only reason that game was as close as it was is because it was Russel wilsons first season as a starter early on in the year when he was still trying to learn the game and figure out how to be a consistant quarterback and playing with hangcuffs on him at the time not taking chances with the football so they couldnt muster much on offense till later on when the pats defense got tired in the second half and wislon was finally able to wear them down while still learning the game at the time.
> 
> from that pathetic thread of yours you created,you obviously were one of those people back then that i mocked for their stupidity picking the donkeys to win the superbowl.
> 
> you were on crack back then picking the donkeys to win just like you were on crack recently when you made that pathetic thread saying the seahawks might not make the playoffs this year.
> 
> as i said on that thread of yours,because of how pitiful and weak the AFC is,the donkeys are the cheatriots only serious challenge.the pats  schedule is even easier than the seahawks shedule is this year.
> 
> The donkeys,since they have to play the tough physical NFC west this year,will have to go on the road to play your pats in the AFC title game so the pats will be the newest victem of the seahawks who get their asses kicked and humiliated in the superbowl by them.
> 
> The cheatriots will find out the same thing the donkeys did last year.that they wont be able to handle a defense like nothing they have seen before since two years ago when they last faced the hawks,it will be way too much for them to handle and also suffer a blowout as well.
> 
> the chetriots will be able to beat up on pitiful patsys the entire year in the weak  AFC for their competition  having to face patsys in their division that are weak. The jets who dont have a quarterback,the bills who are in the same boat rebuilding with a quarterback who is a question mark,and the dolphins,whos quarterback is a question mark as well while the seahawks play in the toughest division in the league because they all have punishing physical defenses far more physical than other NFL teams around the league that they have to face TWICE a year.
> 
> facing the donkeys defense was paradise for them after facing the NFC west teams twice yearly. so will the cheatriiots defense.
> 
> the donkeys are going to counting their blessings they only have to face the NFC west teams just ONCE this year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You Seattle grunge-heads are incredibly naive, alarmingly immature, and have the mental equivalence of a group of grade school playground bullies.
> 
> Other than that, you are not worthy of any more of my time.
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisL

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli's legacy WILL take a hit This season as it will showcase how average to below average he has become.  Just as Peyton's will for excactly the reasons forcast by 9/11.  The NFC West will chew the Broncos up and spit them out.  The only good news for the older Manning is that the rest of the AFC West will suffer the same fate this season so there will be no seperation because of the schedule.
> 
> That leaves the door open for even a so-so Patriots team to take the lead in the American Conference home field advantage at the end of the season.
> 
> If the Pats make it to the Super Bowl The Seahawks should deliver the same message to the NFL that they did in SB 48.
> 
> They won't say that Brady choked... They will just point to the Seahawks as the new Dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once your legacy is built it does not take a hit. Didn't affect Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Joe Namath
> 
> If Eli Manning has a decent line and his receivers are healthy, he will have a good year
> If not, he and the team will struggle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was a time before the internet when a "legacy" could be managed and/or preserved.
> 
> Many NFL QBs that had great runs and won many championships went on to other teams late in their carears ending up playing poorly or had no other super athletes to throw to or hand the ball off to and it did nothing to their legacys.
> 
> Now there is so much public inspection and discussion of every little thing that who really knows how much weight all the video clips and blogs and message boards will have as time goes on and the "what have you done for us lately" question gets asked publicly.
> 
> There may come a time sooner than later when a super star athlete considers retiring at or near the zienith of his body of work *rather than have his "legacy" eroded by a drop off of his own skills or being in a circumstance beyond his control causing his stats and W/L record to take a hit*.
Click to expand...


Kind of like Brett Favre.


----------



## ChrisL

TruthSeeker56 said:


> fbj said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all let's take away the 1st SB for obvious reasons.    So that gives him 1 SB and after winning that one he missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row.    Last season he was responsible for his team starting 0-6 and led the league in interceptions.    And in between the 2008 SB and 2012 SB he missed the playoffs 2  times which means he missed the playoffs  4 times out of the last 5 years
> 
> So tell me again why does he always get a pass and not considered a borderline below average QB?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eli Manning's TEAM has won two Super Bowls.
> 
> Eli Manning's TEAM missed the playoffs two seasons in a row.
> 
> Eli Manning's TEAM started last year 0-6.
> 
> Eli Manning has not had the receiving corps, or the offensive lines, or the running games, that his brother Peyton has enjoyed throughout his career.
> 
> The Giants, as a TEAM, have been a MESS offensively, due to injuries, free agency losses, and an overall lack of talent. Their defense has not been much better.
> 
> *I am not an Eli Manning fan, but the man played his ass off in both Super Bowl victories, and showed me he was a big game WINNER, unlike his older brother.
> 
> Have the Manning brothers switch teams for a couple of seasons, and see who adapts better to their new team.
> *
> I would LOVE to see Peyton Manning play on a team with no offensive line, no wide receivers, and a haphazard running game. He would be on the disabled list faster than he could say "Better ingredients, better pizza, Papa Johns".
> 
> By the way, I am a diehard New England Patriots fan.
Click to expand...


Maybe a simpler way is to look at the stats and find out which brother has the better record?


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fourth quarter comebacks with the game on the line had everything to do with Eli. Especially when you have to drive your team 85 yards for winning touchdowns, Eli did it TWICE. Only two other quarterbacks have managed to do it once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So using your logic... Eli Manning played better in his Super Bowls than Russell Wilson because he came from behind down a TD in the fourth qtr.  Russell Wilson was up 36-0 until the last play of the third qtr so clearly he played worse than Manning..
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Abso-fucking-lutely Eli's heroics were better than Wilson's 206 yards passing
Click to expand...


Comedy GOLD..  

Wilson was such a surgeon in that Super Bowl that he barely had to work up a sweat to "Manage" a victory.  He threw for two TDs and made ZERO mistakes.  No ints..no fumbles..  He just made it look too easy.  No need for heroics when you are stomping the piss out of a defense.  THe Hawks QB was more thoroughly prepared than the great awesome Peyton Manning and it was obvious.  Let alone better prepared than the Not So Great Eli Manning who had to STRUGGLE to get his rings.  Wilson didn't have to make it look hard.  He made it look easy.  He was busy thinking about dumping his cheating wife to the curb and cashing in on the Super Bowl win... meeting the president.. etc...

Wilson claimed that he will be the best QB the NFL has ever seen.  If he threepeats there will be some more than not who will end up agreeing with him.

It is hard not to like Russell.  It will be damned near impossible not to like him if he breezes through another SB.


----------



## ChrisL

Come on people!  Eli Manning is just NOT that impressive.


----------



## HUGGY

TruthSeeker56 said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TruthSeeker56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> we gathered that after that thread you created where you went on a laughable rant showing how deluded you are,that you live in a fantasyland that seahawks might miss the playoffs this year, even though their schedule this year is even easier than last years.
> 
> Had you just stopped with saying they wont repeat,that they will be lucky if they get to the NFC championship game, you would have credibility around here but you lost any you had whatsoever saying they may not make it to the playoffs.
> 
> Its funny how you deny reality that the AFC is so weak thats the ONLY reason the donkeys and cheatriots will face each other again in the title game is because of that.
> 
> again since you hate the seahawks so much,you better hope the seahawks have key multiple injurys down the road since you obviously have a vendetta against them because thats the ONLY way they dont go back to the superbowl and destroy your chetriots making them the newest victem of their physical defense they wont be able to handle.
> 
> your memory is so bad that you cant even remember the game they had two years ago in seattle where the defense,after giving up a couple touchdowns early in that game in the first half stiffened and came back and beat your cheatriots in the second half.
> 
> the only reason that game was as close as it was is because it was Russel wilsons first season as a starter early on in the year when he was still trying to learn the game and figure out how to be a consistant quarterback and playing with hangcuffs on him at the time not taking chances with the football so they couldnt muster much on offense till later on when the pats defense got tired in the second half and wislon was finally able to wear them down while still learning the game at the time.
> 
> from that pathetic thread of yours you created,you obviously were one of those people back then that i mocked for their stupidity picking the donkeys to win the superbowl.
> 
> you were on crack back then picking the donkeys to win just like you were on crack recently when you made that pathetic thread saying the seahawks might not make the playoffs this year.
> 
> as i said on that thread of yours,because of how pitiful and weak the AFC is,the donkeys are the cheatriots only serious challenge.the pats  schedule is even easier than the seahawks shedule is this year.
> 
> The donkeys,since they have to play the tough physical NFC west this year,will have to go on the road to play your pats in the AFC title game so the pats will be the newest victem of the seahawks who get their asses kicked and humiliated in the superbowl by them.
> 
> The cheatriots will find out the same thing the donkeys did last year.that they wont be able to handle a defense like nothing they have seen before since two years ago when they last faced the hawks,it will be way too much for them to handle and also suffer a blowout as well.
> 
> the chetriots will be able to beat up on pitiful patsys the entire year in the weak  AFC for their competition  having to face patsys in their division that are weak. The jets who dont have a quarterback,the bills who are in the same boat rebuilding with a quarterback who is a question mark,and the dolphins,whos quarterback is a question mark as well while the seahawks play in the toughest division in the league because they all have punishing physical defenses far more physical than other NFL teams around the league that they have to face TWICE a year.
> 
> facing the donkeys defense was paradise for them after facing the NFC west teams twice yearly. so will the cheatriiots defense.
> 
> the donkeys are going to counting their blessings they only have to face the NFC west teams just ONCE this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You Seattle grunge-heads are incredibly naive, alarmingly immature, and have the mental equivalence of a group of grade school playground bullies.
> 
> Other than that, you are not worthy of any more of my time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seattle has one of the highest levels of public education in the nation.  It's work force is the best educated.
> 
> Don't be fooled by Richard Sherman stealing the spotlight with his well timed rants.  He recieved a 4.5 GPA from Stanford.  He went from a low round pick to the highest rated player on Madden football game and arguably the best corner in the NFL.
> 
> Sherman isn't even the best DB in Seattle's defensive backfield.  That would be free safety Earl Thomas who is faster than Sherman and the QB of the DBs ..makes all the defense calls on the field.
> 
> You would be mistaken thinking that Seattle is made up of ignorant bullies.
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisL

HUGGY said:


> TruthSeeker56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> You Seattle grunge-heads are incredibly naive, alarmingly immature, and have the mental equivalence of a group of grade school playground bullies.
> 
> Other than that, you are not worthy of any more of my time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has one of the highest levels of public education in the nation.  It's work force is the best educated.
> 
> Don't be fooled by Richard Sherman stealing the spotlight with his well timed rants.  He recieved a 4.5 GPA from Stanford.  He went from a low round pick to the highest rated player on Madden football game and arguably the best corner in the NFL.
> 
> Sherman isn't even the best DB in Seattle's defensive backfield.  That would be free safety Earl Thomas who is faster than Sherman and the QB of the DBs ..makes all the defense calls on the field.
> 
> You would be mistaken thinking that Seattle is made up of ignorant bullies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think he was just referring to those who are posting on this thread.    At least, that's what I gathered from his comment.
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisL

9/11 inside job said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> 
> obviously someone who cant stand to hear critisem of Belecheat. damn right I hate cheaters.especially overrated hacks who get billed as the greatest coach ever when they were a miserable failure with a previous team and is only called the greatest coach now because a rare great named Tom Brady came along and saved it from the toilet where he was stuck before brady his career.
> 
> I cant wait till Brady retires.then the whole world will see what an overrated hack of a coach he really is when he doesnt have him there to make him look good anymore. They used to say the same thing about Mike Shannahan when Elway was winning superbowls for him that he was a genius but once Elway retired,he was exposed for the overrated hack he was.same thing will happen to Belecheat in a couple years or so especially since the guy they drafted to replace him for the future was a BACKUP in college.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Pats went 11-5 without Brady....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> when you got randy moss to throw to who was at that time playing the game with love and passion and was being considered at the time as comparable to jerry rice before eventually becoming a slacker,you could have put me or you back there and you would have had a great offense to light up the boards and of course win lots  of games .
> 
> the chiefs also went 10-6 one time with the same quarterback that year when they had todd haley so i guess that means todd haley is automatically a good coach by that logic  or it COULD be that was just a fluke year for haley and belecheat,the much more realistic explanation.
Click to expand...


I wonder how much extra time it takes you to type out a post with ALL of those emoticons.  Gee whiz!  Smiley overkill.


----------



## HUGGY

ChrisL said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TruthSeeker56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seattle has one of the highest levels of public education in the nation.  It's work force is the best educated.
> 
> Don't be fooled by Richard Sherman stealing the spotlight with his well timed rants.  He recieved a 4.5 GPA from Stanford.  He went from a low round pick to the highest rated player on Madden football game and arguably the best corner in the NFL.
> 
> Sherman isn't even the best DB in Seattle's defensive backfield.  That would be free safety Earl Thomas who is faster than Sherman and the QB of the DBs ..makes all the defense calls on the field.
> 
> You would be mistaken thinking that Seattle is made up of ignorant bullies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he was just referring to those who are posting on this thread.    At least, that's what I gathered from his comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't sure as the rant was seemingly directed to "Seattle grunge heads".. and ignorant bullies
> 
> I don't care for the grunge.  9/11 doesn't live here in Seattle..  No idea what his musical tastes are..
> 
> As for juvenile posts..  I'm way North of 60 ...  I was a big promoter under the name of West Coast Productions bringing many big name black blues artists to the Pacific Northwest back in the early 70's.
Click to expand...


----------



## ChrisL

HUGGY said:


> I wasn't sure as the rant was seemingly directed to "Seattle grunge heads".. and ignorant bullies



Yeah, I think he was saying it to those particular posters.  I have no idea if they or he like grunge either.  



> I don't care for the grunge.  9/11 doesn't live here in Seattle..  No idea what his musical tastes are..



Not a fan of grunge.  I've got to say that I love it, but I'm not even from Seattle, so thankfully I'm not one of those Seattle grunge heads.  



> As for juvenile posts..  I'm way North of 60 ...  I was a big promoter under the name of West Coast Productions bringing many big name black blues artists to the Pacific Northwest back in the early 70's.



Sounds like fascinating and exciting work!


----------



## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> So using your logic... Eli Manning played better in his Super Bowls than Russell Wilson because he came from behind down a TD in the fourth qtr.  Russell Wilson was up 36-0 until the last play of the third qtr so clearly he played worse than Manning..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abso-fucking-lutely Eli's heroics were better than Wilson's 206 yards passing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comedy GOLD..
> 
> Wilson was such a surgeon in that Super Bowl that he barely had to work up a sweat to "Manage" a victory.  He threw for two TDs and made ZERO mistakes.  No ints..no fumbles..  He just made it look too easy.  No need for heroics when you are stomping the piss out of a defense.  THe Hawks QB was more thoroughly prepared than the great awesome Peyton Manning and it was obvious.  Let alone better prepared than the Not So Great Eli Manning who had to STRUGGLE to get his rings.  Wilson didn't have to make it look hard.  He made it look easy.  He was busy thinking about dumping his cheating wife to the curb and cashing in on the Super Bowl win... meeting the president.. etc...
> 
> Wilson claimed that he will be the best QB the NFL has ever seen.  If he threepeats there will be some more than not who will end up agreeing with him.
> 
> It is hard not to like Russell.  It will be damned near impossible not to like him if he breezes through another SB.
Click to expand...


If Wilson completed zero passes for zero yards, the SeaHawks would have still won. Wilson padded his stats once the SeaHawks were up 30-0
Eli completed critical passes for key first downs during game winning drives. Eli, rightfully won two MVPs, Wilson didn't

No comparison between the two


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Abso-fucking-lutely Eli's heroics were better than Wilson's 206 yards passing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comedy GOLD..
> 
> Wilson was such a surgeon in that Super Bowl that he barely had to work up a sweat to "Manage" a victory.  He threw for two TDs and made ZERO mistakes.  No ints..no fumbles..  He just made it look too easy.  No need for heroics when you are stomping the piss out of a defense.  THe Hawks QB was more thoroughly prepared than the great awesome Peyton Manning and it was obvious.  Let alone better prepared than the Not So Great Eli Manning who had to STRUGGLE to get his rings.  Wilson didn't have to make it look hard.  He made it look easy.  He was busy thinking about dumping his cheating wife to the curb and cashing in on the Super Bowl win... meeting the president.. etc...
> 
> Wilson claimed that he will be the best QB the NFL has ever seen.  If he threepeats there will be some more than not who will end up agreeing with him.
> 
> It is hard not to like Russell.  It will be damned near impossible not to like him if he breezes through another SB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If Wilson completed zero passes for zero yards, the SeaHawks would have still won. Wilson padded his stats once the SeaHawks were up 30-0
> Eli completed critical passes for key first downs during game winning drives. Eli, rightfully won two MVPs, Wilson didn't
> 
> No comparison between the two
Click to expand...


How can a QB "pad his stats" in a Super Bowl?

The Seahawks were not playing the worst team in the AFC.

They were playing supposedly the BEST team the AFC had to offer.

Denver was the most prolific offense in the history of the NFL.

At what point does a team playing the best offense in NFL history let up?

I don't mean to appear glib but that is the silliest argument I think I have ever seen concerning Super Bowl 48.

The Hawks were picked to lose the Super Bowl by Vegas and the majority of betting public.

Giving the MVP to a substitute linebacker just because he gets a pick six is questionable.

Wilson played better than Peyton Manning...He played better than Eli Manning in both of his SB wins.

Eli..ratings of* 87.3* and *103.8*

Wilson's rating was *123.1* 

Only 7 QBs in history have had a better Super Bowl QB rating.

Wilson had a better rating than Peyton Manning when he won his SB(*73.5*).  He had a better rating than all of Brady's wins(*100.5, 91.1, 82.5, 110.2*).  He had a better rating than one of the only second year SB winners Rothlesburger(*77.1*) 

Suggesting that Wilson just mailed it in is rediculous.


----------



## ChrisL

A lot of people seem to think that because their team is doing well in their own division, that it means they are a really great team, but that's not necessarily the case.  I think that was the case with Denver.  They were a bit overrated IMO.


----------



## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> Comedy GOLD..
> 
> Wilson was such a surgeon in that Super Bowl that he barely had to work up a sweat to "Manage" a victory.  He threw for two TDs and made ZERO mistakes.  No ints..no fumbles..  He just made it look too easy.  No need for heroics when you are stomping the piss out of a defense.  THe Hawks QB was more thoroughly prepared than the great awesome Peyton Manning and it was obvious.  Let alone better prepared than the Not So Great Eli Manning who had to STRUGGLE to get his rings.  Wilson didn't have to make it look hard.  He made it look easy.  He was busy thinking about dumping his cheating wife to the curb and cashing in on the Super Bowl win... meeting the president.. etc...
> 
> Wilson claimed that he will be the best QB the NFL has ever seen.  If he threepeats there will be some more than not who will end up agreeing with him.
> 
> It is hard not to like Russell.  It will be damned near impossible not to like him if he breezes through another SB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Wilson completed zero passes for zero yards, the SeaHawks would have still won. Wilson padded his stats once the SeaHawks were up 30-0
> Eli completed critical passes for key first downs during game winning drives. Eli, rightfully won two MVPs, Wilson didn't
> 
> No comparison between the two
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can a QB "pad his stats" in a Super Bowl?
> 
> The Seahawks were not playing the worst team in the AFC.
> 
> They were playing supposedly the BEST team the AFC had to offer.
> 
> Denver was the most prolific offense in the history of the NFL.
> 
> At what point does a team playing the best offense in NFL history let up?
> 
> I don't mean to appear glib but that is the silliest argument I think I have ever seen concerning Super Bowl 48.
> 
> The Hawks were picked to lose the Super Bowl by Vegas and the majority of betting public.
> 
> Giving the MVP to a substitute linebacker just because he gets a pick six is questionable.
> 
> Wilson played better than Peyton Manning...He played better than Eli Manning in both of his SB wins.
> 
> Eli..ratings of* 87.3* and *103.8*
> 
> Wilson's rating was *123.1*
> 
> Only 7 QBs in history have had a better Super Bowl QB rating.
> 
> Wilson had a better rating than Peyton Manning when he won his SB(*73.5*).  He had a better rating than all of Brady's wins(*100.5, 91.1, 82.5, 110.2*).  He had a better rating than one of the only second year SB winners Rothlesburger(*77.1*)
> 
> Suggesting that Wilson just mailed it in is rediculous.
Click to expand...


Eli defeated what was set to become the greatest team of all time ....the 18-0 NE Patriots
Wilson padded his stats with two late TDs against a team that had already quit on the field

Eli defeated a team where he was a 13 point underdog
Wilson defeated a team where he was a 2 point underdog

Elis victory is one of the greatest of all time
Wilsons role in the win is already forgotten

This is too easy


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Wilson completed zero passes for zero yards, the SeaHawks would have still won. Wilson padded his stats once the SeaHawks were up 30-0
> Eli completed critical passes for key first downs during game winning drives. Eli, rightfully won two MVPs, Wilson didn't
> 
> No comparison between the two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can a QB "pad his stats" in a Super Bowl?
> 
> The Seahawks were not playing the worst team in the AFC.
> 
> They were playing supposedly the BEST team the AFC had to offer.
> 
> Denver was the most prolific offense in the history of the NFL.
> 
> At what point does a team playing the best offense in NFL history let up?
> 
> I don't mean to appear glib but that is the silliest argument I think I have ever seen concerning Super Bowl 48.
> 
> The Hawks were picked to lose the Super Bowl by Vegas and the majority of betting public.
> 
> Giving the MVP to a substitute linebacker just because he gets a pick six is questionable.
> 
> Wilson played better than Peyton Manning...He played better than Eli Manning in both of his SB wins.
> 
> Eli..ratings of* 87.3* and *103.8*
> 
> Wilson's rating was *123.1*
> 
> Only 7 QBs in history have had a better Super Bowl QB rating.
> 
> Wilson had a better rating than Peyton Manning when he won his SB(*73.5*).  He had a better rating than all of Brady's wins(*100.5, 91.1, 82.5, 110.2*).  He had a better rating than one of the only second year SB winners Rothlesburger(*77.1*)
> 
> Suggesting that Wilson just mailed it in is rediculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Eli defeated what was set to become the greatest team of all time ....the 18-0 NE Patriots
> Wilson padded his stats with two late TDs against a team that had already quit on the field
> 
> Eli defeated a team where he was a 13 point underdog
> Wilson defeated a team where he was a 2 point underdog
> 
> Elis victory is one of the greatest of all time
> Wilsons role in the win is already forgotten
> 
> This is too easy
Click to expand...


The guys helmet should have received the MVP.


----------



## rightwinger

HUGGY said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can a QB "pad his stats" in a Super Bowl?
> 
> The Seahawks were not playing the worst team in the AFC.
> 
> They were playing supposedly the BEST team the AFC had to offer.
> 
> Denver was the most prolific offense in the history of the NFL.
> 
> At what point does a team playing the best offense in NFL history let up?
> 
> I don't mean to appear glib but that is the silliest argument I think I have ever seen concerning Super Bowl 48.
> 
> The Hawks were picked to lose the Super Bowl by Vegas and the majority of betting public.
> 
> Giving the MVP to a substitute linebacker just because he gets a pick six is questionable.
> 
> Wilson played better than Peyton Manning...He played better than Eli Manning in both of his SB wins.
> 
> Eli..ratings of* 87.3* and *103.8*
> 
> Wilson's rating was *123.1*
> 
> Only 7 QBs in history have had a better Super Bowl QB rating.
> 
> Wilson had a better rating than Peyton Manning when he won his SB(*73.5*).  He had a better rating than all of Brady's wins(*100.5, 91.1, 82.5, 110.2*).  He had a better rating than one of the only second year SB winners Rothlesburger(*77.1*)
> 
> Suggesting that Wilson just mailed it in is rediculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eli defeated what was set to become the greatest team of all time ....the 18-0 NE Patriots
> Wilson padded his stats with two late TDs against a team that had already quit on the field
> 
> Eli defeated a team where he was a 13 point underdog
> Wilson defeated a team where he was a 2 point underdog
> 
> Elis victory is one of the greatest of all time
> Wilsons role in the win is already forgotten
> 
> This is too easy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guys helmet should have received the MVP.
Click to expand...


The guy who paid the Broncos to lose should have been MVP


----------



## HUGGY

rightwinger said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eli defeated what was set to become the greatest team of all time ....the 18-0 NE Patriots
> Wilson padded his stats with two late TDs against a team that had already quit on the field
> 
> Eli defeated a team where he was a 13 point underdog
> Wilson defeated a team where he was a 2 point underdog
> 
> Elis victory is one of the greatest of all time
> Wilsons role in the win is already forgotten
> 
> This is too easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guys helmet should have received the MVP.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The guy who paid the Broncos to lose should have been MVP
Click to expand...


With the Hawks being 3 1/2 pt underdogs at KO somebody must have paid a buttload of cash to put together a 38 1/2 pt reversal.

Sounds unlikely but if you say so....


----------

