# Goodbye cruel world



## DavidS

If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500. 

The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.


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## asterism

DavidS said:


> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.



US debt default will do that?  How?

Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.


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## percysunshine

Oh please...please...let this happen.

I have been waiting to buy. 

Only morons buy high and sell low.


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## DavidS

asterism said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
Click to expand...


Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default  before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the  holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and  veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would  occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar. The  United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to  meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for  reliability and credibility  two things that set us apart from much of  the world.


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## California Girl

DavidS said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default  before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the  holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and  veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would  occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar. The  United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to  meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for  reliability and credibility  two things that set us apart from much of  the world.
Click to expand...


They do that so they can pretend to the American people that they're 'fighting' to 'save' America. Both sides do it. Sheep fall for it.


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## Truthmatters

Both sides do it?


Historical evidence please?

This action by the republicans has already proven to the world that the republicans will play games with our full faith and credit.

It has harmed the country allready.

Its what the republicans want, they want our economy to lose steam and they succeded already.

Its party over country at every turn for the right,


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## Si modo




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## Sallow

asterism said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
Click to expand...


There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.

What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.

This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.

How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?


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## Si modo

Sallow said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.
> 
> What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.
> 
> How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
Click to expand...

Do you honestly think that other countries don't already know that we don't have enough to pay our debts?


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## DavidS

California Girl said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default  before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the  holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and  veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would  occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar. The  United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to  meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for  reliability and credibility  two things that set us apart from much of  the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They do that so they can pretend to the American people that they're 'fighting' to 'save' America. Both sides do it. Sheep fall for it.
Click to expand...


Do you disagree with what I posted above?


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## Sallow

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.
> 
> What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.
> 
> How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you honestly think that other countries don't already know that we don't have enough to pay our debts?
Click to expand...


No..they know we have more then enough to finance our debts.

We have a 13 trillion dollar economy.

We have American corporations making more profit then most countries entire GDP.

What we have, however, is a world looking in awe, at the greatest nation on earth being held hostage by small minority of hooligans. Which, in affect, are proving that our Liberal Democratic Republic is in trouble..and big trouble..politically.

So they will be looking more at the Free Market/Oligarchical models of China and Singapore as examples of a system to follow.

Thanks to conservatives.


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## Si modo

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.
> 
> What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.
> 
> How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you honestly think that other countries don't already know that we don't have enough to pay our debts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No..they know we have more then enough to finance our debts.
> 
> ....
Click to expand...

Really.  Where is that money to pay our debt?


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## California Girl

DavidS said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default  before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the  holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and  veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would  occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar. The  United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to  meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for  reliability and credibility  two things that set us apart from much of  the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They do that so they can pretend to the American people that they're 'fighting' to 'save' America. Both sides do it. Sheep fall for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you disagree with what I posted above?
Click to expand...


I can't dumb down enough to read your posts.


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## Truthmatters

Where is the historical PROOF both sides do this????????????


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## Truthmatters

Yeah I thought so.


More bullshit lies about "they all do it" when the republican party sticks its head up its ass.


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## Si modo

Partisans are the ones who think it only takes one to play brinkmanship.

Idiots.


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## Sallow

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you honestly think that other countries don't already know that we don't have enough to pay our debts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No..they know we have more then enough to finance our debts.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really.  Where is that money to pay our debt?
Click to expand...


At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.

So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...

Pay off debt?

Naw.

TAX CUTS!


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## Truthseeker420

DavidS said:


> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.



It would kill the economy but life would still go on.


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## Si modo

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> No..they know we have more then enough to finance our debts.
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> Really.  Where is that money to pay our debt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.
> 
> So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...
> 
> Pay off debt?
> 
> Naw.
> 
> TAX CUTS!
Click to expand...

I have no idea how this answers my question.


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## xsited1

DavidS said:


> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.



The government could maintain the confidence of investors by prioritizing interest payments, but Obama never lets a crises go to waste so I'm sure he'll try his best to crash the stock market for political points.


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## Sallow

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really.  Where is that money to pay our debt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.
> 
> So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...
> 
> Pay off debt?
> 
> Naw.
> 
> TAX CUTS!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no idea how this answers my question.
Click to expand...


Oh.

I will go slower.

WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.

WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.

Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.

But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.


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## Si modo

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.
> 
> So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...
> 
> Pay off debt?
> 
> Naw.
> 
> TAX CUTS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how this answers my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh.
> 
> I will go slower.
> 
> WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.
> 
> WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.
> 
> Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.
> 
> But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.
Click to expand...

Still non-responsive.  

Recap:  You said we have enough money to pay our debt.  Where is that money?


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## TruthSeeker56

Plenty of finger-pointing, bullying, and hypocrisy on this topic, but NO solutions.

Plenty of sweeping generalizations, agenda-driven clap-trap, and platitudes, but NO solutions.

I could be talking about the political hacks in Washington, D.C. or the political hacks in this forum.  Which is it?  BOTH.


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## DavidS

California Girl said:


> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They do that so they can pretend to the American people that they're 'fighting' to 'save' America. Both sides do it. Sheep fall for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you disagree with what I posted above?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can't dumb down enough to read your posts.
Click to expand...


Yeah I get it. You're a big of Reagan and you hate Obama, right? 

Reagan good, Obama bad. If Reagan would've run for a 3rd term, would you have voted for him?


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## Toro

I think the risk of a sell off in the stock market is very high if the US defaults on its Treasury obligations.  But the truth is, nobody knows.  Anybody who thinks they know or who speaks with certainty is acting with hubris, even if the analysis is sound. Because the global financial system is so complex and tightly wound, stress on an unexpected weak link in the system could crack the markets.  The problem is that the weak link is usually unknown.  Nobody had any idea what the ramifications would be when Lehman declared bankruptcy, for example.

I also believe that the stock market will begin a slower decline if the debt ceiling is not increased even if there is no default on Treasuries.  The deficit is 10% of GDP.  The economy will begin contracting at that rate if the debt ceiling is not raised.  If the impasse lasts for a short period of time, the affects will be small, but even a 2 week delay could shave ~0.5% off GDP.

The foundations of the stock market are beginning to weaken as the internals are deteriorating.


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## dilloduck

Sallow said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.
> 
> What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.
> 
> How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
Click to expand...


Who will financially penalize the US for late or non payment of loans ?


----------



## DavidS

dilloduck said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.
> 
> What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.
> 
> How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who will financially penalize the US for late or non payment of loans ?
Click to expand...


Moody's and S&P will downgrade our credit rating - kind of like when you miss a car payment. And our interest rates will go up, making loans more expensive, like cars, homes, student, etc. The stock market will sell off to pre-1980 levels and our economy will enter a new recession almost immediately.


----------



## dilloduck

DavidS said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.
> 
> What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.
> 
> How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who will financially penalize the US for late or non payment of loans ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Moody's and S&P will downgrade our credit rating - kind of like when you miss a car payment. And our interest rates will go up, making loans more expensive, like cars, homes, student, etc. The stock market will sell off to pre-1980 levels and our economy will enter a new recession almost immediately.
Click to expand...


That's a possible consequence of late or non payment, not a direct financial penalty. Are you saying our own bank will charge us more interest ?


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## Truthmatters

Still no evidence of both sides doing this like some posters claimed.


Its just not true.


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## HUGGY

DavidS said:


> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.



As long as they make sure Obama does not get re-elected in destroying the country it will be worth any collateral damage.

  

Just sayin...


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## Truthmatters

who crashed the world economy?


----------



## Sallow

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how this answers my question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.
> 
> I will go slower.
> 
> WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.
> 
> WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.
> 
> Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.
> 
> But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still non-responsive.
> 
> Recap:  You said we have enough money to pay our debt.  Where is that money?
Click to expand...


What part didnt you get?

Do you understand how finance works?


----------



## The Gadfly

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the beginning of the Bush administration? In the Bush administration hot little hands.
> 
> So they were like..surplus what to do..what to do...
> 
> Pay off debt?
> 
> Naw.
> 
> TAX CUTS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how this answers my question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh.
> 
> I will go slower.
> 
> WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.
> 
> WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.
> 
> Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.
> 
> But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.
Click to expand...


Ah, there it is again, the liberal's solution to every problem - BIGGER GOVERNMENT, HIGHER TAXES. Poverty? No problem, Bigger Government, raise taxes! Recession? No problem-Bigger Government, raise taxes! War? No problem-Bigger government, raise taxes! The deficit? No problem, bigger government, raise taxes! Whatever the problem, TAX and SPEND, SPEND, SPEND! Hell if you democrats had your way, the government would own everything, your party would control everything, your party would decide how much we work, how much of what we produce you'd let us keep, when we sleep, how much we eat, and what we eat, because according to you the almighty federal government (so long as YOU control it, naturally) knows better that we do what's good for us. That Ivy League, arrogant, egomaniacal, statist prick you put in the White House is a perfect example of everything I detest about your party. You hate individual freedom, you want total government control of it all (again, all run by elitists like you, who are arrogant enough, and stupid enough, to believe you know it all). Government for the elite, by the elite, and the people be damned!

Well, this time, you are NOT going to get your way. This time, the rest of us have had enough, and I do not care, if we bring the whole house of cards down, or if that leads to revolution. Maybe we need a revolution, to clean out that cesspool on the Potomac. What you and your elitist, statist attitude have created is a sham, a lie, and a fraud! Just as Lincoln and the Radical Republican Jacobins of the nineteenth century destroyed the Republic, you have finally run the dissolute Empire that replaced it into the ground! The corporatist republican politicians who have helped you do it are little better; they want a corporate, militarized state, you want a socialist, command economy, nanny state, but BOTH want an all-powerful state, to divide among themselves. I hope it doesn't come to a choice, but I'd prefer absolute anarchy to either!

You want the truth? The truth is, that BOTH major political parties have flim-flammed the people, narcotized them with easy credit and phony prosperity, bought off the poor, instead of helping them, created a culture of dependency to buy votes, encouraged illegal immigration for votes and profit, and continued a giant Ponzi scheme called Social Security and Medicare (knowing it would become insolvent), and spent beyond the Nation's means, in a complete exercise in social and fiscal irresponsibility. Those aren't chickens coming home to roost, those are vultures, coming to feed on the rotten, decaying carcass. The party's over (BOTH of them!), and the American people are going to have to become self reliant again, instead of looking for a free lunch that is not free at all. The difference between me and you, is that I believe the people are capable of doing that, despite the pain of recovering from a well-conditioned addiction to the largesse of political thieves and hucksters.


----------



## xsited1

Truthmatters said:


> who crashed the world economy?



You did.  Everybody knows it's true.


----------



## Truthmatters

The right wing priciples of lower and lower taxes has given us what exactly?


----------



## dilloduck

Truthmatters said:


> The right wing priciples of lower and lower taxes has given us what exactly?



Lower taxes


----------



## Si modo

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.
> 
> I will go slower.
> 
> WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.
> 
> WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.
> 
> Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.
> 
> But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.
> 
> 
> 
> Still non-responsive.
> 
> Recap:  You said we have enough money to pay our debt.  Where is that money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part didnt you get?
> 
> Do you understand how finance works?
Click to expand...

Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.


"We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.

The world is well aware of this.


----------



## boedicca

Truthmatters said:


> The right wing priciples of lower and lower taxes has given us what exactly?




Higher economic growth and more jobs...as long as those tax rates remain certain and predictable and are not undermined by massive amounts of federal regulation and compliance burdens.


----------



## Stashman

DavidS said:


> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.



*The best thing for us right now is NOT to increase the debt ceiling. Why? Well you have to ask what that means to raise the debt ceiling. By raising the debt ceiling we give them permission to borrow more money. Where are they going to borrow this money from?
The Federal Reserve System. The Fed is not a government entity and is owned by private banks. They print the money from thin air, loan it to the government at interest, that is than passed on to the taxpayer.

Every time the Fed prints more money it devalues the money already is circulation. Our dollar today has a value of 4 cents as compared to the dollar in 1913 the year of the Federal Reserve Act.

If we do not raise the debt ceiling we will force them to do whats right and face the issue at hand and end the Fed.

Ron Paul 2012
*


----------



## dilloduck

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still non-responsive.
> 
> Recap:  You said we have enough money to pay our debt.  Where is that money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What part didnt you get?
> 
> Do you understand how finance works?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.
> 
> 
> "We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.
> 
> The world is well aware of this.
Click to expand...


Our very own Fed will be happy to lend us more ( at an elevated interest rate ), God bless em.


----------



## Si modo

dilloduck said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part didnt you get?
> 
> Do you understand how finance works?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.
> 
> 
> "We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.
> 
> The world is well aware of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our very own Fed will be happy to lend us more ( at an elevated interest rate ), God bless em.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sallow

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still non-responsive.
> 
> Recap:  You said we have enough money to pay our debt.  Where is that money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What part didnt you get?
> 
> Do you understand how finance works?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.*
> 
> "We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.
> 
> The world is well aware of this.
Click to expand...


Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.

Why the fuck are  you people so dense?


----------



## dilloduck

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part didnt you get?
> 
> Do you understand how finance works?
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.*
> 
> "We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.
> 
> The world is well aware of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
Click to expand...


are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?


----------



## Sallow

The Gadfly said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea how this answers my question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.
> 
> I will go slower.
> 
> WE-COULD-HAVE-STARTED-PAYING-DOWN-THE-DEBT-IN-2001. INSTEAD-BUSH-CUT-TAXES.
> 
> WE-CAN-FINANCE-THE-DEBT-NOW. AND-MAYBE-PAY-IT-DOWN-BY-SUNSETTING-THE-TAX-CUTS-CUTTING/CLOSING-LOOPHOLES-AND-RECAPTURING-TAXES-FROM-TAX-CHEATS.
> 
> Or we can kill the poor like Jan Brewer by cutting medicare and welfare.
> 
> But eventually..as the french found out the hard way..enough misery leads to revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah, there it is again, the liberal's solution to every problem - BIGGER GOVERNMENT, HIGHER TAXES. Poverty? No problem, Bigger Government, raise taxes! Recession? No problem-Bigger Government, raise taxes! War? No problem-Bigger government, raise taxes! The deficit? No problem, bigger government, raise taxes! Whatever the problem, TAX and SPEND, SPEND, SPEND! Hell if you democrats had your way, the government would own everything, your party would control everything, your party would decide how much we work, how much of what we produce you'd let us keep, when we sleep, how much we eat, and what we eat, because according to you the almighty federal government (so long as YOU control it, naturally) knows better that we do what's good for us. That Ivy League, arrogant, egomaniacal, statist prick you put in the White House is a perfect example of everything I detest about your party. You hate individual freedom, you want total government control of it all (again, all run by elitists like you, who are arrogant enough, and stupid enough, to believe you know it all). Government for the elite, by the elite, and the people be damned!
> 
> Well, this time, you are NOT going to get your way. This time, the rest of us have had enough, and I do not care, if we bring the whole house of cards down, or if that leads to revolution. Maybe we need a revolution, to clean out that cesspool on the Potomac. What you and your elitist, statist attitude have created is a sham, a lie, and a fraud! Just as Lincoln and the Radical Republican Jacobins of the nineteenth century destroyed the Republic, you have finally run the dissolute Empire that replaced it into the ground! The corporatist republican politicians who have helped you do it are little better; they want a corporate, militarized state, you want a socialist, command economy, nanny state, but BOTH want an all-powerful state, to divide among themselves. I hope it doesn't come to a choice, but I'd prefer absolute anarchy to either!
> 
> *You want the truth? *The truth is, that BOTH major political parties have flim-flammed the people, narcotized them with easy credit and phony prosperity, bought off the poor, instead of helping them, created a culture of dependency to buy votes, encouraged illegal immigration for votes and profit, and continued a giant Ponzi scheme called Social Security and Medicare (knowing it would become insolvent), and spent beyond the Nation's means, in a complete exercise in social and fiscal irresponsibility. Those aren't chickens coming home to roost, those are vultures, coming to feed on the rotten, decaying carcass. The party's over (BOTH of them!), and the American people are going to have to become self reliant again, instead of looking for a free lunch that is not free at all. The difference between me and you, is that I believe the people are capable of doing that, despite the pain of recovering from a well-conditioned addiction to the largesse of political thieves and hucksters.
Click to expand...




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo]&#x202a;A Few Good Man "You Can&#39;t Handle the Truth"&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Si modo

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What part didnt you get?
> 
> Do you understand how finance works?
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.*
> 
> "We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.
> 
> The world is well aware of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
Click to expand...

And, now back to my original point:  So the fuck what?  It is no argument to continue insanity.


----------



## Si modo

dilloduck said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.*
> 
> "We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.
> 
> The world is well aware of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
Click to expand...

It's the idiotic _tu quoque_ argument that means shit.


----------



## Sallow

dilloduck said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh, I understand it well.  Borrowing more to pay debt while saying "we" have the money to cover our debt is idiotic, at best.*
> 
> "We" do not, N-O-T, have money to pay our debt.
> 
> The world is well aware of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
Click to expand...


First I "suggest" that we fix the problems caused by 8 years of gross and very incompetent government. The Bush administration, yet again, fucked things up so royally that it was necessary..like with the Reagan administration's fuck ups..to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.

Then I "suggest" once the economy is stablized..we really address the debt problem by cutting some spending, increasing revenue..and re-introducing Paygo.

Then I "suggest" we introduce regulations to keep the same thing from happening again..and bring back *gasp*, Glass-Steagall.


----------



## xsited1

Sallow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I "suggest" that we fix the problems caused by 8 years of gross and very incompetent government. The Bush administration, yet again, fucked things up so royally that it was necessary..like with the Reagan administration's fuck ups..to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.
> 
> Then I "suggest" once the economy is stablized..we really address the debt problem by cutting some spending, increasing revenue..and re-introducing Paygo.
> 
> Then I "suggest" we introduce regulations to keep the same thing from happening again..and bring back *gasp*, Glass-Steagall.
Click to expand...


You must really hate what the Obama Administration has done.  I hope you didn't vote for him.


----------



## Si modo

Sallow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I "suggest" that we fix the problems caused by 8 years of gross and very incompetent government. The Bush administration, yet again, fucked things up so royally that it was necessary..like with the Reagan administration's fuck ups..to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.
> 
> Then I "suggest" once the economy is stablized..we really address the debt problem by cutting some spending, increasing revenue..and re-introducing Paygo.
> 
> Then I "suggest" we introduce regulations to keep the same thing from happening again..and bring back *gasp*, Glass-Steagall.
Click to expand...

So, Bush was bad for spending more than revenues, and Obama is going to 'fix' that by spending even more than revenues, so Obama is good.

Got it.


----------



## dilloduck

Sallow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I "suggest" that we fix the problems caused by 8 years of gross and very incompetent government. The Bush administration, yet again, fucked things up so royally that it was necessary..like with the Reagan administration's fuck ups..to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.
> 
> Then I "suggest" once the economy is stablized..we really address the debt problem by cutting some spending, increasing revenue..and re-introducing Paygo.
> 
> Then I "suggest" we introduce regulations to keep the same thing from happening again..and bring back *gasp*, Glass-Steagall.
Click to expand...


If you call what Obama has been doing doing a "fix" we are really in trouble.


----------



## Foxfyre

Our President may be the most incompetent President in American history, but even though he has surrounded himself with some highly questionable people, he must be getting some good advice from somewhere.  He seems to be catching on that his scare tactics that social security checks might not go out if the debt ceiling isn't raised--a bald faced lie by the way--and that it is all Bush's fault--stated yet again in last Friday's speech--isn't holding up well these days.

And somebody must have finally gotten to him that even if we raise the debt ceiling but  fail to cut spending, our credit rating will be downgraded for the first time in like forever, and he isn't going to want to have that happen on his watch.

So emphasizing that the man really doesn't have a clue, but is going every which way to be on the 'winning' side of this, it has been a fascinating thing to watch.

First he wanted a congressional vote on raising the debt ceiling separated from spending cuts.  Now he wants them linked.

Then he said he would reject a short-term deal to raise the borrowing limit. Now he says he could make an exception.

He magnanimouly pledged to meet with congressional leaders every single day until a deal was reached.  That lasted five days and then the daily meetings disappeared from his schedule.

He said an emphatic no re linking an increase to spending cuts.  "We do not need to play chicken with our economy by linking the raising of the debt ceiling to anything," White House spokesman Jay Carney said April 11.  A few days later Obama in an AP interview said raising the debt ceiling wasn't going to happen without some cuts.

Three months later, Carney was saying:  "The dynamic that's created here, for better or for worse -- and we think now for better -- that has linked these two has focused attention and focused people's minds on the need to do something significant around deficit reduction."

The White House has had to recalibrate its position on whether Obama would back a short-term increase to avoid a default.

At a July 11 news conference, Obama insisted he would not back a short-term increase to avoid a default.  "This is the United States of America, and we don't manage our affairs in three-month increments," he said.

Now aides say Obama would approve an increase for a few days, but only there was agreement on a long-term deal, and more time was needed for the legislative process.

Now all he has to do is cave on his silly insistance that spending cuts be tied to increasing taxes on the rich, and he has the Republicans with him a hundred percent.

All he has to do is convince an intransigent Harry Reid and the other Democrats in the Senate.

It's like watching a floating crap game, but for a dedicated process/media watcher, it has been fascinating.


----------



## Steve Hanson

Sallow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which..is..EXACTLY..WHAT..PRESIDENT..BUSH..DID.
> 
> Why the fuck are  you people so dense?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First I "suggest" that we fix the problems caused by 8 years of gross and very incompetent government. The Bush administration, yet again, fucked things up so royally that it was necessary..like with the Reagan administration's fuck ups..to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.
> 
> Then I "suggest" once the economy is stablized..we really address the debt problem by cutting some spending, increasing revenue..and re-introducing Paygo.
> 
> Then I "suggest" we introduce regulations to keep the same thing from happening again..and bring back *gasp*, Glass-Steagall.
Click to expand...


What has Obama done to reverse these terrible actions by GWB?  And just how did the repeal of Glass Steagall effect the economy? 

*to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.*  BTW, Obama gave more money to the private sector than any other president


----------



## Si modo

Steve Hanson said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First I "suggest" that we fix the problems caused by 8 years of gross and very incompetent government. The Bush administration, yet again, fucked things up so royally that it was necessary..like with the Reagan administration's fuck ups..to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.
> 
> Then I "suggest" once the economy is stablized..we really address the debt problem by cutting some spending, increasing revenue..and re-introducing Paygo.
> 
> Then I "suggest" we introduce regulations to keep the same thing from happening again..and bring back *gasp*, Glass-Steagall.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What has Obama done to reverse these terrible actions by GWB?  And just how did the repeal of Glass Steagall effect the economy?
> 
> *to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.*  BTW, Obama gave more money to the private sector than any other president
Click to expand...

C'mon!  Obama had a lot of votes he had to pay for.  At least Obama is able to pay those debts.


----------



## Foxfyre

Si modo said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you suggesting making the same mistake again ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First I "suggest" that we fix the problems caused by 8 years of gross and very incompetent government. The Bush administration, yet again, fucked things up so royally that it was necessary..like with the Reagan administration's fuck ups..to use tax payer money to bail out the private sector.
> 
> Then I "suggest" once the economy is stablized..we really address the debt problem by cutting some spending, increasing revenue..and re-introducing Paygo.
> 
> Then I "suggest" we introduce regulations to keep the same thing from happening again..and bring back *gasp*, Glass-Steagall.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, Bush was bad for spending more than revenues, and Obama is going to 'fix' that by spending even more than revenues, so Obama is good.
> 
> Got it.
Click to expand...


But. . . .but. . . .if they don't keep the focus on Bush, then the logical place to put the blame 2-1/2 years later is. . . . .

Using their logic, Bush 41 and Reagan get all the credit for the Clinton years.


----------



## editec

I do NOT believe the US Federal Government will fail to make payments to its creditors.

But if we did, there's a few things I think we all know will happen, and yes indeed, they WILL effect that precious bleeding stock market of ours.

Let us ask ourselves: *Who OWNS these bonds that we're theoretically going to default on?*

Well certainly, *foreign central banks* own them by the trillions. 

And *Social Security* owns about 1/4 of all US debt, too

But_ *YOUR*_* 401Ks*, *your banks*,_ *your*_* insurance companies*, the *corporations in which you own stock*, OWN the rest of that debt.

Do you think _their_ market value declines when their so-called assets (the US debt instruments they own) collapse in value to _god only knows_ what lows?

In fact, in the case of banks, many of those count on their T-Bills as a big part of their capitalization.And if the banks CAPITILIZATION (T-bills) are worthless, then the banks must not lend out anymore money because _many of them are no longer solvent._

Now as to larger corporations? 

You know that supposed $4 trillion ("in cash??) they are credited as currently sitting on?How much of THAT do you think in the form of T-Bills T-, kids? Here's a something to consider...It's _MOST OF IT!!!_

Now seriously...the* people* (and their market demand) *go down* because the FED is not paying their SSI and government pensions; the* banks go down* because they are all suddenly undercapitalized; the value of stocks of *major corporations* *go down* because their CASH POSITIONS (they don't have bills in the vault, _they have T-BILLS in their vaults_) collapses; and FINALLY, *the government* *goes down* because it isn't paying its bills.

*Allowing the above to happen will, I suspect, throw the entire world economy into flux.*

When the rest of the world comes out of that flux, you can bet your ass that the USD will no longer be the world's exchange currency.

The rest of the world will HATE the USA. 

We, the citizens of the USA, we 290,000,000 or so who were not rich enough to get our assets_ out of this nation_, will be PAUPERS awash in sea of debt that benefited very few of us _EVER._

Now is_ that_ really going to happen?

I kinda doubt it 

But if is does, that will that certainly teach the USA a lesson it soon won't forget, won't it? Here's the lesson it will teach us:

Politics_ by SPITE? _Not really such a good idea​


----------



## elvis

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMuOSVGAF4Q]&#x202a;Pink Floyd - Goodbye Cruel World&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## chesswarsnow

Sorry bout that,






DavidS said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DavidS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the US defaults and/or our credit is downgraded, our stock market is going to plummet. Think 2008 was scary? Look at 2011. Imagine watching the DOW plummet 1000 points in a day. 2,000. Think DOW 6500 was bad? Wait til DOW 3500.
> 
> The radical right wing Republicans are going to kill us all and destroy an already fragile economy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US debt default will do that?  How?
> 
> Although I don't think the US will default on its debt just because it can't borrow more.  In fact, every dollar paid in Social Security reduces the debt.  The US is free to issue bonds up to the limit.  This, like the rush to appropriate money for all those "shovel ready" jobs that didn't exist, is just another money grab.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Congress consistently brings the Government to the edge of default  before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the  holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and  veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would  occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar. The  United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to  meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for  reliability and credibility  two things that set us apart from much of  the world.
Click to expand...





1. How many *Negros* do you know who have perfect credit and pay their bills on time?
2. Why you be putting such a high standard on Obama anyways sucker?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## Lars

Sallow said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are debts this country has run up..like financing 2 wars..that we will default on. If there isn't enough money in the treasury to finance those debts..penalties will accrue. We also have foreign debts subject to the same risk.
> 
> What this will do is demostrate to other nations that this country is so dysfunctional it cannot even take care of it's finances. They will look to other currencies to purchase and peg their own to. And they will look to other countries to make trade agreements with.
> 
> This works fine if your goal is to be a pariah and isolationist. And it would turn this country, effectively, into a third world country with a big military.
> 
> How's that working out for the Democratic Republic of North Korea?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you honestly think that other countries don't already know that we don't have enough to pay our debts?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So they will be looking more at the Free Market/Oligarchical models of China and Singapore as examples of a system to follow.
> 
> Thanks to conservatives.
Click to expand...


If only that were the case, China actually has a growing middle class and Singapore consistently outperforms the United States in regards to GDP(PPP) per Capita, this year by 8,000 dollars a year(it also ranks higher on the heritage index of economic freedom, no coincidence).


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