# A Jew on the Intel Report



## midcan5

Ahmadinejad Has Screwed Us Again!

How They Stole the Bomb From Us

Uri Avnery

"There is one little consolation in the new situation. While it seems as if the immediate danger of annihilation has disappeared, there is a feeling that we are alone, on our own again.

That is another sign of Jewish uniqueness: We are facing the entire world alone. As in the days of the Holocaust, all the Goyim have forsaken us. Face to face with the Iranian monster which threatens to devour us, we now stand here alone.

All our media are repeating this in unison, like an orchestra which does not need a conductor, because it knows the music by heart."

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery12102007.html


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## Shogun

the jpost talkbacks are in a FRENZY these days.


*
That is another sign of Jewish uniqueness: We are facing the entire world alone. As in the days of the Holocaust, all the Goyim have forsaken us. Face to face with the Iranian monster which threatens to devour us, we now stand here alone.*


dramaqueens.


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## midcan5

the focus has changed maybe someone will think again about the Palestinians and peace.


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## BaronVonBigmeat

> That is another sign of Jewish uniqueness: We are facing the entire world alone. As in the days of the Holocaust, all the Goyim have forsaken us. Face to face with the Iranian monster which threatens to devour us, we now stand here alone.



Translation:

We are the only power in the mideast that has nukes, and a means of delivering them over long distances. We think Iran will get them eventually, and we'd like to put them in their place before they get too big for their britches. Not with our own troops and resources, mind you.

edit: this is not the author's view, he is skewering that viewpoint.


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## eots

How about this if Israel is so sure of its Intel and wants to attack the middle east let them..after are troops are home safely


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## Annie

BaronVonBigmeat said:


> Translation:
> 
> We are the only power in the mideast that has nukes, and a means of delivering them over long distances. We think Iran will get them eventually, and we'd like to put them in their place before they get too big for their britches. Not with our own troops and resources, mind you.
> 
> edit: this is not the author's view, he is skewering that viewpoint.



Translation: Let's allow the weaker powers today, those calling for killing homosexuals, (whoops, they are already); keeping women from full citizenship, (whoops, they are already); enriching uranium, (whoops they are already); exporting their weapons and political philosophy, (whoops they are already), become stronger or even equal. Then we'll deal with them. 

Why does this remind me of WWII?


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## Gunny

Can't imagine why Jews would feel persecuted.  BTW ...where's WJ to help with this fucking dogpile?


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## eots

Kathianne said:


> Translation: Let's allow the weaker powers today, those calling for killing homosexuals, (whoops, they are already); keeping women from full citizenship, (whoops, they are already); enriching uranium, (whoops they are already); exporting their weapons and political philosophy, (whoops they are already), become stronger or even equal. Then we'll deal with them.
> 
> Why does this remind me of WWII?



translation/ I am a interventionist that wants to interfere with other sovereign nations culture and religious beliefs , laws , social evolution and bring them my brand of morality, like the murder of the unborn , pornography force fed to our children the break down of the family, total materialism where children kill other children for shoes or video games


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## DeadCanDance

Its really no fair to paint all israelis as hand-wringing drama queens.  Obviously, this guy needs to calm down.  Iran is nowhere close to nuking israel, nor is it even clear thay can or ever will. 

That said, there is a wide variety of public opinion in israel.  And a substantial, pro-peace, pro-coexistance bloc.   The level and variety of debate with respect to the palestinains and iran is substantial there.


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## Gunny

midcan5 said:


> Ahmadinejad Has Screwed Us Again!
> 
> How They Stole the Bomb From Us
> 
> Uri Avnery
> 
> "There is one little consolation in the new situation. While it seems as if the immediate danger of annihilation has disappeared, there is a feeling that we are alone, on our own again.
> 
> That is another sign of Jewish uniqueness: We are facing the entire world alone. As in the days of the Holocaust, all the Goyim have forsaken us. Face to face with the Iranian monster which threatens to devour us, we now stand here alone.
> 
> All our media are repeating this in unison, like an orchestra which does not need a conductor, because it knows the music by heart."
> 
> http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery12102007.html



Sure thing.  Let's ignore the fact that Iran has called for the complete destruction of Israel on more than one occasion.  And what is Iran's argument?  Jews on Arab land?  Iranians are Persian, not Arab.  There goes that one.

That they're Jews?  Agree with that, do you?

You'll dogpile Israel ... where's your condemnation of the Arabs calling themselves "Palestinians" waging a war of terror via cold-blooded murder of noncombatants?  Where's your condemnation of a so-called people who exist solely to hate?  Your condemnation of a people who believe those that differ from them don't deserve to live?

Yeah, you sure know how to pick a side.


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## jillian

DeadCanDance said:


> Its really no fair to paint all israelis as hand-wringing drama queens.  Obviously, this guy needs to calm down.  Iran is nowhere close to nuking israel, nor is it even clear thay can or ever will.
> 
> That said, there is a wide variety of public opinion in israel.  And a substantial, pro-peace, pro-coexistance bloc.   The level and variety of debate with respect to the palestinains and iran is substantial there.



Actually, the person writing the article is far from a hand-wringing drama queen. I mean, I know that certain parts of the article were cherry-picked to create that impression...and intentionally so, it appears. However, in reading the article, it actually says something quite a bit different.


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## jillian

midcan5 said:


> the focus has changed maybe someone will think again about the Palestinians and peace.



Maybe the Palestinians will remove the destruction of Israel from their Charter like they agreed to. Seems that should happen first, no?


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## midcan5

Many we need a reading comprehension pill when controversial topics are posted. Please check who wrote this before casting stones. Think first or think period.


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## jillian

midcan5 said:


> Many we need a reading comprehension pill when controversial topics are posted. Please check who wrote this before casting stones. Think first or think period.



Actually, I think the problem is that you didn't get the sarcasm...maybe it's a cultural thing.



> In any case, perhaps the peace forces should overcome their understandable reservations and try to influence public opinion in a way that would help Olmert turn in this direction.EITHER WAY, one thing is certain: that son of a bitch, Ahmadinejad, has screwed us again.
> 
> He has stolen our most precious possession: the Iranian Atomic Threat.



You know he's being tongue in cheek, right? I don't think I misunderstood, nor do I think he's far from where you are... which is why I commented on the cherry-picking from the article.


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## Shogun

Kathianne said:


> Translation: Let's allow the weaker powers today, those calling for killing homosexuals, (whoops, they are already); keeping women from full citizenship, (whoops, they are already); enriching uranium, (whoops they are already); exporting their weapons and political philosophy, (whoops they are already), become stronger or even equal. Then we'll deal with them.
> 
> Why does this remind me of WWII?



invading Iran over its nukes has NOTHING to do with your rant against a muslin nation.  Absolutely nothing.  KIlling homosexuals?  Do you have the first iota of PROOF or are we just shooting from the hip this side of the Nuke report?  POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY?  Look in the fucking mirror, Kath.



It reminds you of ww2 because you think that the quickest way to convince people into aggression with Iran is by forcing a correlation between the nazi treatment of jews to this.  let me toss out a hint:  THE ENTIRETY OF LIFE CANNOT BE REDUCED DOWN TO A COMPARISON TO THE HOLOCAUST JUST TO CREATE A FRENZY ABOUT ISRAELS ENEMIES.


See how far the enablers will go?


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## Shogun

GunnyL said:


> Can't imagine why Jews would feel persecuted.  BTW ...where's WJ to help with this fucking dogpile?



indeed, persicution never felt so good on the israeli side of the apartheid fence.

Is it "persecution"now every time a western nation doesn't fall for the boohoo routine while allowing israel a clear double standard?  I tellya, NOTHING says "picked on" quite like being allowed exceptional consideration above the applied standard!

Thats one good gentile that knows his place in the heirarchy of the Chosen.


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## Shogun

DeadCanDance said:


> Its really no fair to paint all israelis as hand-wringing drama queens.  Obviously, this guy needs to calm down.  Iran is nowhere close to nuking israel, nor is it even clear thay can or ever will.
> 
> That said, there is a wide variety of public opinion in israel.  And a substantial, pro-peace, pro-coexistance bloc.   The level and variety of debate with respect to the palestinains and iran is substantial there.




Yea.. Jpost articles and talkbacks tend to illustrate that very thing.
sarcasm button off.


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## Shogun

GunnyL said:


> Sure thing.  Let's ignore the fact that Iran has called for the complete destruction of Israel on more than one occasion.  And what is Iran's argument?  Jews on Arab land?  Iranians are Persian, not Arab.  There goes that one.
> 
> That they're Jews?  Agree with that, do you?
> 
> You'll dogpile Israel ... where's your condemnation of the Arabs calling themselves "Palestinians" waging a war of terror via cold-blooded murder of noncombatants?  Where's your condemnation of a so-called people who exist solely to hate?  Your condemnation of a people who believe those that differ from them don't deserve to live?
> 
> Yeah, you sure know how to pick a side.



Are you talking about the ever tasty purposful misquote by those who REALLY REALLY want you and every other gentile to believe that in n vs. israel n=always equivalent to hitler?  Ahmadenijad makes a VALID point in asking why Mid Easterners must pay for EUROPEAN antisemitism.  I guess it's easier on the ears via the israel filter this far from the mid east.  

Indeed, the trail of tears was VALID because they were not REAL, original NATIVES!  the FACT remains that they were on the land pre-48 and your apathy towards their claim doesn't make that claim any less valid. 



SOLELY TO HATE?  what a load of shit.  Thus, the WATTS Riots were based SOLELY ON HATRED, right?  the civil war?  SOLE HATRED.   Demonizing muslims as merely hate filled demons hellbent on killing jews FOR NO REASON is exactly how the white man swallowed manifest destiny.  Congrats.  Like i've told you before, GO WATCH RED DAWN AND THEN COME BACK AND TELL ME ABOUT CORRECT BEHAVIOUR OF THE INVADED.

DOH!

there I go being all hitler like again.


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## Shogun

jillian said:


> Maybe the Palestinians will remove the destruction of Israel from their Charter like they agreed to. Seems that should happen first, no?



Maybe that would be more tempting if not marginalized like a population of beggars outside the castle wall?  It's funny how willing people are to get along when they are not systematically being tossed in the gutter for the sake of israel... No, what should happen first is for israel to DESEGREGATE.  But, fat chance of that, eh?  Non-jews need not apply?  Now why on EARTH would non-jews who used to own the land that israel is Canaanizing refuse to accept israel?!?


it's like the mystery of a starving man trying to EAT!  Can you believe it?  a starving man TRYING TO EAT, Jillian!  how EEEEEVIL.


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## Paulie

eots said:


> translation/ I am a interventionist that wants to interfere with other sovereign nations culture and religious beliefs , laws , social evolution and bring them my brand of morality, like the murder of the unborn , pornography force fed to our children the break down of the family, total materialism where children kill other children for shoes or video games



Damn Kath, he's got a point here.

You know damn right well America is not by any means a country to model yourself after.  You can call me anti-american if you want...it wouldn't be true of course, but you can.  It's the truth though.  This country has taken a plunge down the shitter in the last decade especially.

Who the fuck are WE to impose OUR way of life on other countries?

Isn't it why they supposedly hate us to BEGIN with?



jillian said:


> Maybe the Palestinians will remove the destruction of Israel from their Charter like they agreed to. Seems that should happen first, no?


And the Palestinians are going to destroy Israel HOW?  With sticks and rocks, and the occasional bomb belt???

Come on.  Be real here.


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## DeadCanDance

jillian said:


> Actually, the person writing the article is far from a hand-wringing drama queen. I mean, I know that certain parts of the article were cherry-picked to create that impression...and intentionally so, it appears. However, in reading the article, it actually says something quite a bit different.



I take your word for it, because I totally trust you and your judgement.  I didn't read the whole article.  Just the cherry picked part in the first post. 

I'm just uncomfortable with painting israeli jews or muslims with one broad brush or stereotype.


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## jillian

Paulitics said:


> And the Palestinians are going to destroy Israel HOW?  With sticks and rocks, and the occasional bomb belt???
> 
> Come on.  Be real here.



No. They don't need sticks and rocks and "the occasional bomb belt" (which is only minor, btw, if it isn't your child on the school bus that some loony blows up) to destroy Israel. They want to take a far easier tack, by demanding "right of return" and outpopulating the Jews.


Poof...no more Jewish country.


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## Paulie

jillian said:


> Poof...no more Jewish country.



How about poof, no more Zionist Israel?


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## jillian

Paulitics said:


> How about poof, no more Zionist Israel?



Only if "poof" there are no more muslim countries and no more Christian countries.

Is "poof" then okay?

But thank you for proving my point about the thinly veiled agenda of the Israel-haters.


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## Paulie

jillian said:


> Only if "poof" there are no more muslim countries and no more Christian countries.
> 
> Is "poof" then okay?
> 
> But thank you for proving my point about the thinly veiled agenda of the Israel-haters.



jillian, first of all, I'm an ally of yours for the most part.  You want the war to be over, and so do I.  When you argue partisan politics, that's where you lose me.  Otherwise, I applaud you for realizing what's important, so chill out on me.

I would expect more than that 'anti-israel' spin from you.  I don't have a problem with Israel, just with who runs it.  Much like you and I do with the US.


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## bush lover

How about this, let's just take in all the Jews in Israel. They can create a little homeland or whatever in the Bronx or Nebraska or whereever. They'd help balance out the illegal Mexicans here. Then we could shut down "Israel" officially and get the ragheads off our backs. The alternative is to bomb the crap out of the ragheads, including Iran! Our President wanted to go the bombing route, which I support, but I guess the cowards and lib terrorist-lovers won out?


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## Shogun

jillian said:


> No. They don't need sticks and rocks and "the occasional bomb belt" (which is only minor, btw, if it isn't your child on the school bus that some loony blows up) to destroy Israel. *They want to take a far easier tack, by demanding "right of return" and outpopulating the Jews.*
> 
> 
> Poof...no more Jewish country.





are you fucking crazy today?  is it NOT THE JEWS who already enforce a LAW of return complete with state fanfair and the greenlight to claim whateer pal land is necessary to squat on?  Do you REALLY want to play this card while we all know how much attention jews put into birth rate demographics in order to outpopulate the pals?  really, Jillian?  Do I even NEED to post this source?


it's simply INSIDEOUS when a muslim does what a jew does openly!

NEFARIOUS, lemme tellya!


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## Shogun

Paulitics said:


> How about poof, no more Zionist Israel?



or *POOF* no more racist as fuck israel trying to monopolize national ethnicity ON PAR with the blond haired, blue eyed race in germany?

Watching jews trying to rationalize ethnic segregation in israel is just like watching the klan work at the same thing here in the US.


thank god the chosen are physically incapable, due to the holocaust, of being racist.


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## Shogun

jillian said:


> Only if "poof" there are no more muslim countries and no more Christian countries.
> 
> Is "poof" then okay?
> 
> But thank you for proving my point about the thinly veiled agenda of the Israel-haters.



muslim and christian convey a SPECIFIC ETHNICTY?  oh.. NOW it's only about religion all of a sudden!  convenient, that bait and switch.

indeed, way to work in "israel haters"!  come on.. go ahead and toss it out there..  You know you wanna.


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## Paulie

Shogun said:


> or *POOF* no more racist as fuck israel trying to monopolize national ethnicity ON PAR with the blond haired, blue eyed race in germany?
> 
> Watching jews trying to rationalize ethnic segregation in israel is just like watching the klan work at the same thing here in the US.
> 
> 
> thank god the chosen are physically incapable, due to the holocaust, of being racist.



Much like african americans are physically incapable of being racist here in the US because of slavery and segregation.

Past oppression of ANYONE should not automatically give the once-oppressed a blank check to be assholes in light of the fact, and not ever be condemned for it.

It really does end up being a blueprint for disaster everytime.



			
				Shogun said:
			
		

> indeed, way to work in "israel haters"!  come on.. go ahead and toss it out there..  You know you wanna.


Kathianne will be by soon to take care of that and pick up where jillian left off.


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## Shogun

bush lover said:


> How about this, let's just take in all the Jews in Israel. They can create a little homeland or whatever in the Bronx or Nebraska or whereever. They'd help balance out the illegal Mexicans here. Then we could shut down "Israel" officially and get the ragheads off our backs. The alternative is to bomb the crap out of the ragheads, including Iran! Our President wanted to go the bombing route, which I support, but I guess the cowards and lib terrorist-lovers won out?



ragheads.  lovely.  thankfully, ethnic hatred is only a one way street.


But, I totally agree.  Let's give the jews Texas and create a barrier between the US and Mexico.  THEN, we can sit back for the next 50 years and try to figure out why it's the displaced TEXANS out killing jews instead of muslims swimming accross the atlantic like zionist logic would require.


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## Paulie

Shogun said:


> ragheads.  lovely.  thankfully, ethnic hatred is only a one way street.
> 
> 
> But, I totally agree.  Let's give the jews Texas and create a barrier between the US and Mexico.  THEN, we can sit back for the next 50 years and try to figure out why it's the displaced TEXANS out killing jews instead of muslims swimming accross the atlantic like zionist logic would require.



Well maybe after we invade the rest of the invadable muslim countries and pillage their land, stick them in 'internment' camps here in the US, and nuke the rest that we didn't feel like committing our personnel resources to, to the point where the entire lifeblood of the muslim religion is all but a distant memory, they will finally have sympathy from the people of the West.


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## Shogun

ahh.. the Native American strategy.  Well, if you can stomach the genocide we know it will work.


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## Paulie

Shogun said:


> Well, if you can stomach the genocide we know it will work.



I can't.

That's why I've gotten involved in politics.  And I'll tell ya, it feels so much better than sitting my ass on the couch every night getting pissed off that I missed the first 5 minutes of Project Runway.


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## jillian

What a bunch of bullshit ways to say Jews shouldn't have their own country.

As for genocide... puleeeeeeeeeeze. Give the propaganda a rest. You're going to hurt yourselves.


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## midcan5

jillian said:


> You know he's being tongue in cheek, right? I don't think I misunderstood, nor do I think he's far from where you are... which is why I commented on the cherry-picking from the article.



Yes, even used that phrase in another post regarding same article. I guess I need to stop assuming a person would read the piece before commenting.


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## Paulie

jillian said:


> What a bunch of bullshit ways to say Jews shouldn't have their own country.


What a bullshit way to spin what we said.

How do you get 'israel-hater' and 'jews shouldn't have their own country' out of what we said?  We said the regime occupying it, not jews as a whole.

Zionism is just a specific ideology of certain jews.  Anti-zionism is not anti-israel, no matter how much you might want it to be.


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## midcan5

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is a contributor to CounterPunch's book The Politics of Anti-Semitism.

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery10042007.html


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## Shogun

jillian said:


> What a bunch of bullshit ways to say Jews shouldn't have their own country.
> 
> As for genocide... puleeeeeeeeeeze. Give the propaganda a rest. You're going to hurt yourselves.



What a bunch of bullshit it is trying to "look it's an antisemite" up the conversation.  I've stated here and in many other threads my opinion about giving Texas to the jews for a homeland (which, ironically, would cause texans instead of muslims to conflit with the jews) but hey, if all it takes is a little boohoo martyr routine and a big bowl of "im chosen, look at me" then surely you can deal with the reality of how your pet nation treats pals.

Lord fucking knows we don't allow that kind of segregated shit to happen here.  ESPECIALLY against jews.. but, who wants to consider that when there is an aparthied to rationalize.  Hell, if South Africa can pull it off while the ebb of the flow was in whitey's favor it's probably lost on the zionists how to do it now.....

propaganda.  you mean like ethnic equality in israel propaganda?  Say, how long before a non-jew ever becomes the Israeli Prime Minister, Jillian?  What, 5? 10 years until DESEGREGATION?  oh, thats right... NOW it's all about a homeland for a common ETHNIC IDENTITY....


sig hiel, Jilliian.  The last master race said the same thing about their exclusive right to a homeland.


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## Shogun

Dec 11, 2007 9:20 | Updated Dec 11, 2007 18:02
Gaza: 8 Palestinians killed in IDF op

Eight Palestinian gunmen were killed and at least 10 wounded on Tuesday as *IDF tanks and bulldozers backed by attack aircraft moved into the southern Gaza Strip in the biggest operation in the territory since Islamic Hamas forces wrested control in June.* Fierce clashes erupted between IDF troops and gunmen who fired rocket-propelled grenades and mortar shells at the soldiers.

Terrorists carrying land mines and other weapons dodged among houses in the southern Gaza town of Khan Yunis and maneuvered behind the tanks to fire at troops. Others took cover behind trees, or covered themselves in leaves to camouflage themselves in open farmlands in the area of the fighting.

*Tanks and bulldozers were about 1.5 kilometers deep inside southern Gaza, on the main road between the towns of Khan Yunis and Rafah, and deployed over a 4-kilometer-long stretch of territory.*

Earlier, an RPG anti-tank missile was fired at a tank, lightly wounding four soldiers.

Soldiers took over the rooftops of several homes and arrested about 60 people in house-to-house arrest raids, residents said.

*Troops also demolished a gas station, Palestinians reported.*

*The army said that this was a routine operation "against the terror infrastructure," and not indicative of a larger operation.* Gaza terrorists routinely fire Kassam rockets and mortar shells at Israeli border communities, and smuggle in weapons from Egypt.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak said that the operation had achieved "very important results" in the fight against the manufacture and firing of Kassam rockets and mortar shells.
*
Speaking during a visit to a Navy base in Haifa, Barak added that IDF troops had been operating in Gaza every night to allow Israelis to celebrate the Hanukka festival in peace.*

Hamas called on the Palestinian Authority to cancel the following day's peace talks with Israel in response to the IDF operation.

A Hamas spokesman in Gaza said that it would be an "embarrassment" for Palestinian representative to shake the Israelis' "blood-stained" hands, Israel Radio reported.

*PA President Mahmoud Abbas's spokesman Nabil Abu Rudaineh also condemned the IDF operation, calling it a "despicable crime" that cast doubts over Israel's desire to see peace negotiations succeed. *

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1196847308155&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull


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## jillian

No offense, but fuck that. 

When does a jew get to be president of Iran?

Guess that's okay. Jews are too powerful anyway, right?


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## DeadCanDance

Shogun said:


> Dec 11, 2007 9:20 | Updated Dec 11, 2007 18:02
> Gaza: 8 Palestinians killed in IDF op
> 
> Eight Palestinian gunmen were killed and at least 10 wounded on Tuesday as *IDF tanks and bulldozers backed by attack aircraft moved into the southern Gaza Strip in the biggest operation in the territory since Islamic Hamas forces wrested control in June.* Fierce clashes erupted between IDF troops and gunmen who fired rocket-propelled grenades and mortar shells at the soldiers.
> 
> Terrorists carrying land mines and other weapons dodged among houses in the southern Gaza town of Khan Yunis and maneuvered behind the tanks to fire at troops. Others took cover behind trees, or covered themselves in leaves to camouflage themselves in open farmlands in the area of the fighting.
> 
> *Tanks and bulldozers were about 1.5 kilometers deep inside southern Gaza, on the main road between the towns of Khan Yunis and Rafah, and deployed over a 4-kilometer-long stretch of territory.*
> 
> Earlier, an RPG anti-tank missile was fired at a tank, lightly wounding four soldiers.
> 
> Soldiers took over the rooftops of several homes and arrested about 60 people in house-to-house arrest raids, residents said.
> 
> *Troops also demolished a gas station, Palestinians reported.*
> 
> *The army said that this was a routine operation "against the terror infrastructure," and not indicative of a larger operation.* Gaza terrorists routinely fire Kassam rockets and mortar shells at Israeli border communities, and smuggle in weapons from Egypt.
> 
> Defense Minister Ehud Barak said that the operation had achieved "very important results" in the fight against the manufacture and firing of Kassam rockets and mortar shells.
> *
> Speaking during a visit to a Navy base in Haifa, Barak added that IDF troops had been operating in Gaza every night to allow Israelis to celebrate the Hanukka festival in peace.*
> 
> Hamas called on the Palestinian Authority to cancel the following day's peace talks with Israel in response to the IDF operation.
> 
> A Hamas spokesman in Gaza said that it would be an "embarrassment" for Palestinian representative to shake the Israelis' "blood-stained" hands, Israel Radio reported.
> 
> *PA President Mahmoud Abbas's spokesman Nabil Abu Rudaineh also condemned the IDF operation, calling it a "despicable crime" that cast doubts over Israel's desire to see peace negotiations succeed. *
> 
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1196847308155&pagename=JPost&#37;2FJPArticle/ShowFull




This thread is getting a bit ugly for my taste. 

Look, palestinians and jews have both suffered.  Both sides have legitimate greviences.  I hope they can work them out somehow, and that the palestinians can have their own, viable state.   And certainly, the state of israel has every right to exist.  

I really think that arabs can be trusted to keep the peace, once they have been negotiated with in good faith, and their greviences addressed.  Egypt has never attacked israel since 1978, since israel gave the Sinai back and a peace treaty was signed.  Jordan signed a peace treaty with israel over a decade ago, and there's been no attacks from jordan.


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## onedomino

Shogun said:
			
		

> sig hiel, Jilliian. The last master race said the same thing about their exclusive right to a homeland.


What an insulting and absurd remark to make to anyone, and especially a Jew. Your anti-Israel and thinly veiled anti-Semitism is quite apparent. You cannot seem to comprehend the difference between those who are defending themselves from those that indiscriminately murder innocent non-combatants. What is wrong with you? Many of your remarks could have easily come out of the board's premier anti-Semite, William Joyce. Anti-Israel propaganda has quite the fevered champion in Shogun.


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## AllieBaba

Paulitics said:


> Damn Kath, he's got a point here.
> 
> You know damn right well America is not by any means a country to model yourself after.  You can call me anti-american if you want...it wouldn't be true of course, but you can.  It's the truth though.  This country has taken a plunge down the shitter in the last decade especially.
> 
> Who the fuck are WE to impose OUR way of life on other countries?
> 
> Isn't it why they supposedly hate us to BEGIN with?
> 
> 
> And the Palestinians are going to destroy Israel HOW?  With sticks and rocks, and the occasional bomb belt???
> 
> Come on.  Be real here.



We don't impose our way of life on other cultures. We step in when other cultures threaten to annihilate themselves, or others, and when human rights are violated. There's a difference.


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## Shogun

Oh, so Iran is your standard now? Funny how this bounces this way and that according what what is necessary to rationalize the actions of israel...

Since Im comparing israel with THE REST OF THE WEST maybe you'd like to remind me how many WESTERN countries have jews in their high offices?  How many AMERICAN offices are filled with jews that similar offices sure as fuck wouldnt be filled by goyim in Israel?  Again, what if WHITEY claimed and decided to preserve ITS majority in America similarly to how zioinists are openly doing so in Israel?  YOU brought up the birth rate demographics...  I notice that you backed right off of that one after the reality of israeli LAWS do exactly the same thing.  So which is it?  Are your standard for Israel going to meet OUR western standards of DESEGREGATION or is it just another race based hothead in the mid east that is about as much of an ally as saddam in the 80s?  I'm not willing to defend your pet nation while it is acting like those they demonize daily when convenient and imitate when otherwise convenient.  the holocaust excuse is getting old and is not a blank check to treat ANOTHER ethnic population like the germans treated you.  Your burning bush weak ass claim to that particular land just isnt worth it.  Crying like a fucking startled puppy every time someone slaps your hand away from the nuclear cookie jar, despite the stockade israel is allowed under a double standard no less, isn't picking on jews. It's not antisemitism.  It's not jew hating.  No one in this thread hates jews.  Of COURSE insisting as much is your only recourse when israel makes my case as clear as day.  So, if lame ass little quips and the same ole blank "antisemite" reflex is all you've got to add I think we are done here.


----------



## Shogun

onedomino said:


> What an insulting and absurd remark to make to anyone, and especially a Jew.* Your anti-Israel and thinly veiled anti-Semitism is quite apparent. *You cannot seem to comprehend the difference between those who are defending themselves from those that indiscriminately murder innocent non-combatants. What is wrong with you? Many of your remarks could have easily come out of the board's premier anti-Semite, William Joyce. Anti-Israel propaganda has quite the fevered fevered champion in Shogun.



THERE it is!  I KNEW it was only a matter of time...

Of COURSE you see a difference!  it's a mystery why the British in 1776 saw those pesky colonists as violent upstarts picking on the poor boohoo british crown!  jews CANT act malicious against pals!  it's simly NOT in your DNA, right chosen, er, mast, er, chosen?  (which is it, I forgot?)

But, I assure you, your criticism of me is about as significant as your standard zionist reaction is to actual debate on the subject.  Lets make sure you understand that it doesn't bother me if you think I am a raging antisemite.  I know that I don't hate jews.  It doesn't bother me when you hint at WJ while hoping that insinuating as much may reign in my posts on the issue.  I have no automatic common denominator prompting a standard reaction.  If the ONLY thing you have to add in defense of Israel is to call me an anti-semite then we all see how far you are in the mudhole of zionism and my posts must REALLY chafe you.

So, let me get this strait for us ignorant goyim, Criticism of American policies makes one UNAMERICAN and conveys AMERICAN HATRED?  no?  Funny how ANY criticism of ANYTHING israel does, despite the reprocussions and social travesty involved, amounts to antisemitism.  It must be sad to know that your only defense is playing the master race card.  I tellya, social marginalization is easy to rationalize whiel riding THIS side of the xylon B chamber, eh buddy?

Indeed, the likes of David Duke would certainly agree with the ZIONIST decision to keep the nasty little goyim out of israeli politics.. Certainly, he could use a few pointers on how to install such public policy here.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> We don't impose our way of life on other cultures. We step in when other cultures threaten to annihilate themselves, or others, and when human rights are violated. There's a difference.



uh, spreading democracy is NOT imposing our way of life on others?


ooook.

*
Hey, when in doubt we can always invalidate democracy when we don't like the winner, RIGHT onedomino?*  Why the hell would anyone NOT see the difference!

Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012600372.html

Hamas sweeps to election victory
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4650788.stm

Olmert: Israel won&#8217;t negotiate with Hamas
Militant group quiet after landslide victory in Palestinian elections
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11009552/


so you can spare me your fucking "b-b-but WERE the good guys and we only kill in defense while THEY are eeeeevil and have no reason to react violently other than simply hatred of we poor jews.. boofuckinghoo."


----------



## AllieBaba

Shogun said:


> Dec 11, 2007 9:20 | Updated Dec 11, 2007 18:02
> Gaza: 8 Palestinians killed in IDF op
> 
> 
> 
> *Earlier, an RPG anti-tank missile was fired at a tank, lightly wounding four soldiers.*
> 
> http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1196847308155&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull



Tell me if I'm wrong, but this little buried fact...doesn't it establish that they were fired on before they attacked???

If I'm wrong, please tell me.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Tell me if I'm wrong, but this little buried fact...doesn't it establish that they were fired on before they attacked???
> 
> If I'm wrong, please tell me.




*The army said that this was a routine operation "against the terror infrastructure," and not indicative of a larger operation.*\



nope.  NOW it was a routine operation.  Tell me.. how quickly would yo ube to entertain peace when being fronted on by 'copters, tanks and 'dozers?  Even if you were not actively resisting yourself who would you empathize with if ANY nation were to treat AMERICA like israel treats the pals?



'Routine operation'
The Israeli force cut traffic on the main road between Khan Younis and Rafah, and encountered fierce resistance from Palestinian fighters, witnesses said.

A petrol station was reportedly demolished, and three Islamic Jihad militants were killed when an Israeli missile struck a house. 

But correspondents on the scene said it looked anything but routine, with bodies lying amid the rubble of a destroyed building and Israeli tanks pushing deep into Palestinian territory.

Schoolchildren ran through the streets of Khan Younis, the largest town in southern Gaza, after schools closed so they could take refuge at home.

Dozens of people were detained in house-to-house raids by the Israeli troops, residents said. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7138076.stm


Israel launches Gaza incursion
"The Israeli policy of escalation aims to sabotage and place obstacles before the negotiations even before they start," Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a spokesman for Abbas, said.

An Israeli military spokeswoman sought to play down the offensive near the town of Rafah saying it was a routine operation "against the terror infrastructure" in Gaza.

But a spokesman for Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian president, described it as a "heinous crime" that undermined the peace process.  

Israel frequently attacks armed groups in Gaza in response to the firing of rockets and mortars.

"The extremists in Gaza are trying to kill Israeli civilians. The Israeli operations are defensive and designed to protect our civilian population that has been the target of barrages of daily rocket attacks," Mark Regev, Israeli government spokesman, said.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79CFFF6E-7570-4F75-95AF-EA2EDE1E6503.htm



Here.. just so we can all see that pals are just as human as the rest of us.. Even the new master race.






I tellya.. nothind says DEFENSE quite like terrorizing an entire population into violent reaction!  Sounds like SOMEONE needs to reaffirm that blank check since the iranian nuke report.


----------



## onedomino

Shogun said:


> THERE it is!  I KNEW it was only a matter of time...
> 
> Of COURSE you see a difference!  it's a mystery why the British in 1776 saw those pesky colonists as violent upstarts picking on the poor boohoo british crown!  jews CANT act malicious against pals!  it's simly NOT in your DNA, right chosen, er, mast, er, chosen?  (which is it, I forgot?)
> 
> But, I assure you, your criticism of me is about as significant as your standard zionist reaction is to actual debate on the subject.  Lets make sure you understand that it doesn't bother me if you think I am a raging antisemite.  I know that I don't hate jews.  It doesn't bother me when you hint at WJ while hoping that insinuating as much may reign in my posts on the issue.  I have no automatic common denominator prompting a standard reaction.  If the ONLY thing you have to add in defense of Israel is to call me an anti-semite then we all see how far you are in the mudhole of zionism and my posts must REALLY chafe you.
> 
> So, let me get this strait for us ignorant goyim, Criticism of American policies makes one UNAMERICAN and conveys AMERICAN HATRED?  no?  Funny how ANY criticism of ANYTHING israel does, despite the reprocussions and social travesty involved, amounts to antisemitism.  It must be sad to know that your only defense is playing the master race card.  I tellya, social marginalization is easy to rationalize whiel riding THIS side of the xylon B chamber, eh buddy?
> 
> Indeed, the likes of David Duke would certainly agree with the ZIONIST decision to keep the nasty little goyim out of israeli politics.. Certainly, he could use a few pointers on how to install such public policy here.


I think it is quite obvious to anyone who has read your mouth-foaming anti-Semitic propaganda that you have a problem with Jews. You know very well that Israel conceded 99 percent of everything the Palestinians demanded including the creation of a Palestinian State and the withdrawal from occupied territory. Yet the response was murdered innocent Israeli men, women, and children, by demented sociopaths who call themselves Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. Such does not prevent you from the freak show you put on display here today. You do not get the fact that the Israelis are defending themselves and that the Palestinians with the guns and explosives do not want to negotiate, they want to kill Israelis. You are one scary extremist.


----------



## Paulie

AllieBaba said:


> We don't impose our way of life on other cultures. We step in when other cultures threaten to annihilate themselves, or others, and when human rights are violated. There's a difference.



Oh, NOOOOOOOO, we don't go into countries, disrupt their sovereignty, and force our 'Western Democracy' down their throats.  Never.

There are COUNTLESS countries that are violating human rights.  Why is it that the only ones we militarily replace regimes in, are the ones we will economically benefit from doing so in?  Why are we not commiting troops to Darfur, with logic like yours?

Like I said, who are WE to tell another sovereign nation what they can or can't do?  I guess as long as the media has sold it to you as a national security risk, you'd be willing to intervene just about ANYWHERE, huh?


----------



## AllieBaba

Shogun said:


> *The army said that this was a routine operation "against the terror infrastructure," and not indicative of a larger operation.*\
> 
> 
> 
> nope.  NOW it was a routine operation.  Tell me.. how quickly would yo ube to entertain peace when being fronted on by 'copters, tanks and 'dozers?  Even if you were not actively resisting yourself who would you empathize with if ANY nation were to treat AMERICA like israel treats the pals?
> 
> 
> 
> 'Routine operation'
> The Israeli force cut traffic on the main road between Khan Younis and Rafah, and encountered fierce resistance from Palestinian fighters, witnesses said.
> 
> A petrol station was reportedly demolished, and three Islamic Jihad militants were killed when an Israeli missile struck a house.
> 
> But correspondents on the scene said it looked anything but routine, with bodies lying amid the rubble of a destroyed building and Israeli tanks pushing deep into Palestinian territory.
> 
> Schoolchildren ran through the streets of Khan Younis, the largest town in southern Gaza, after schools closed so they could take refuge at home.
> 
> Dozens of people were detained in house-to-house raids by the Israeli troops, residents said.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7138076.stm
> 
> 
> Israel launches Gaza incursion
> "The Israeli policy of escalation aims to sabotage and place obstacles before the negotiations even before they start," Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a spokesman for Abbas, said.
> 
> An Israeli military spokeswoman sought to play down the offensive near the town of Rafah saying it was a routine operation "against the terror infrastructure" in Gaza.
> 
> But a spokesman for Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian president, described it as a "heinous crime" that undermined the peace process.
> 
> Israel frequently attacks armed groups in Gaza in response to the firing of rockets and mortars.
> 
> "The extremists in Gaza are trying to kill Israeli civilians. The Israeli operations are defensive and designed to protect our civilian population that has been the target of barrages of daily rocket attacks," Mark Regev, Israeli government spokesman, said.
> http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79CFFF6E-7570-4F75-95AF-EA2EDE1E6503.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Here.. just so we can all see that pals are just as human as the rest of us.. Even the new master race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tellya.. nothind says DEFENSE quite like terrorizing an entire population into violent reaction!  Sounds like SOMEONE needs to reaffirm that blank check since the iranian nuke report.



But...were they fired on first or not?


----------



## Shogun

onedomino said:


> I think it is quite obvious to anyone who has read your mouth-foaming anti-Semitic propaganda that you have a problem with Jews. You know very well that Israel conceded 99 percent of everything the Palestinians demanded including the creation of a Palestinian State and the withdrawal from occupied territory. Yet the response was murdered innocent Israeli men, women, and children, by demented sociopaths who call themselves Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. Such does not prevent you from the freak show you put on display here today. You do not get the fact that the Israelis are defending themselves and that the Palestinians with the guns and explosives do not want to negotiate, they want to kill Israelis. You are one scary extremist.



Or, at least thats what you are banking on, right?

Of COURSE blessed israel conceded!  I see it every time a jewish squatter canaanizes more pal land!  I see it in every mile of the aparthied wall!  I see it every time a zionist like yourself rationalizes jewish status in israel while, ironically, hating similar racist sentiment here in the states!  I see it when israel decides it doesn't liek the results of an election and says fuck it and invalidates the poll!  I see it in the posts of people like you who would rather pretend jews are infallable rather than admit that your pet nation might just be shitting on ethnic populations of non-jews.  Yes, yes...   pat yourself on the back...  congradulate yourself on your bumper sticker opinion of the common team.   I tellya, NOTHING makes your case faster than calling someone a jew hating anti-semite!

It's the standard for all debate teams these days, you know.

yea.. israel is defending itself alright.  defending it's boofuckinghoo routine by stirring up a reaction from pals who see every day that zionists are not interested in peace but rather DOMINANCE.  Like I said, *if you don't like being compared to a nazi then stop acting like walt fucking disney.  *


yea, with as much blood on YOUR zionist hands I sure am the scary one!


Hell, we all know how those eeeeevil muslims would be swimming accross the atlantic to kill jews instead of the Texans whose home was sacrificed for the next israel!  They ARE spawns of satan, you know.  Inhuman and full of SIIIIN!

while the new master race is sugar ans spice and everything nice!  you called me an antisemite so it MUST be true!


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> But...were they fired on first or not?



Not from what I see.  What you refer to reads like it was part of the action later on.  Seems to me that israel had a holiday it wanted to observe and what better way to circumvent rockets than to terrorize pals and an entire ethnic whole?  


But hey.. you can go ahead and stop right there anyway.  The less quick you are to suck zionist cock the quicker you are to trigger the Reflex.


----------



## AllieBaba

Paulitics said:


> Oh, NOOOOOOOO, we don't go into countries, disrupt their sovereignty, and force our 'Western Democracy' down their throats.  Never.
> 
> There are COUNTLESS countries that are violating human rights.  Why is it that the only ones we militarily replace regimes in, are the ones we will economically benefit from doing so in?  Why are we not commiting troops to Darfur, with logic like yours?
> 
> Like I said, who are WE to tell another sovereign nation what they can or can't do?  I guess as long as the media has sold it to you as a national security risk, you'd be willing to intervene just about ANYWHERE, huh?



If it were up to me, we'd be in Darfur and every other place where people are being butchered.

We are the number one superpower in the world. We take the right to establish and maintain peace or something as close to it as possible. It's our responsibility, and for the most part, those countries which you think are "suffering" under us are grateful.


----------



## Paulie

AllieBaba said:


> If it were up to me, we'd be in Darfur and every other place where people are being butchered.



Then I am grateful that it is not up to you.



> We are the number one superpower in the world. We take the right to establish and maintain peace or something as close to it as possible. It's our responsibility, and for the most part, those countries which you think are "suffering" under us are grateful.



My god.  You might be the most far gone I've talked to on here, not including RSR.


----------



## AllieBaba

I'm sure you think we'd be much better off if we just sat on our keisters and didn't do anything to help people out, ever. Based on your belief that everyone, even groups who slaughter willy-nilly, has a right to do so and we have no right to tell them it's wrong. Or, heaven forbid, do anything to stop it.

Sorry, isn't going to happen.


----------



## Gunny

Paulitics said:


> Then I am grateful that it is not up to you.



So you can just stand aside and watch the helpless be butchered?  Sad.


----------



## Larkinn

jillian said:


> No offense, but fuck that.
> 
> When does a jew get to be president of Iran?
> 
> Guess that's okay. Jews are too powerful anyway, right?



He doesn't and you can, and should, condemn Iran for that.   Pointing to Iran and saying "well they do it too" isn't much of a justification for anything.


----------



## Annie

I'm waiting for the first jew taking charge in any Islamic country, Arab or not. When such is even possible, Wait! When they even allow a jew in the legislature/judiciary, progress will have been made. Not holding my breath.

What was that you said regarding Israeli prejudice against non-Jews?


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> But...were they fired on first or not?



Honestly...until there is a peace treaty again I don't think this question is relevant.   There are so many skirmishes back and forth that half of Israel and Palestine can claim to have been "fired on first".


----------



## Annie

Larkinn said:


> Honestly...until there is a peace treaty again I don't think this question is relevant.   There are so many skirmishes back and forth that half of Israel and Palestine can claim to have been "fired on first".



Of course you don't.


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> If it were up to me, we'd be in Darfur and every other place where people are being butchered.
> 
> We are the number one superpower in the world. We take the right to establish and maintain peace or something as close to it as possible. It's our responsibility, and for the most part, those countries which you think are "suffering" under us are grateful.



Kudos-ish.


----------



## Larkinn

Kathianne said:


> Of course you don't.



Try adressing the issue instead of me.


----------



## jillian

Larkinn said:


> He doesn't and you can, and should, condemn Iran for that.   Pointing to Iran and saying "well they do it too" isn't much of a justification for anything.



I'm not looking at it as justification. My point was that they expect Israel to do things they wouldn't expect of any other country.... like participate in its own destruction.

I actually try to be fair on this issue. And by fair, I mean that both should be autonomous and run their own governments. I don't, however, believe that fair means Israel should cease to exist or that Zionism is a dirty word. I'm quite proud of Israel and the way they've made a desert green and the things it has achieved. What I resent is when people take positions that would result in it being yet another Arab country in the middle east.


----------



## DeadCanDance

Kathianne said:


> I'm waiting for the first jew taking charge in any Islamic country, Arab or not. When such is even possible, Wait! When they even allow a jew in the legislature/judiciary, progress will have been made. Not holding my breath.
> 
> snip



Jews do serve in the Iranian legislature.  Persian jews have existed for millenia in Iran, and there are many synagogues,  and jewish schools in Tehran.  Once again, you are wildly misinformed. 

That is not to say they don't get discriminated against in iran.  But, in general, neither are they getting their heads chopped off when they go to synagogues,  or serve in the nation's legislature.


----------



## Gunny

DeadCanDance said:


> Jews do serve in the Iranian legislature.  Persian jews have existed for millenia in Iran, and there are many synagogues,  and jewish schools in Tehran.  Once again, you are wildly misinformed.
> 
> That is not to say they don't get discriminated against in iran.  But, in general, neither are they getting their heads chopped off when they go to synagogues,  or serve in the nation's legislature.



Link please.


----------



## jillian

He's right about there being a single jewish representative in the Irani legislature. Last I heard, it was a guy named Maurice Motamed.

And there are synagogues, though I'm not sure how much autonomy they have. Most of the Jewish population escaped, though. I don't believe Jews are allowed to immigrate to or emigrate from Iran now. But I wouldn't swear to it.

These are the synagogues.

http://www.kosherdelight.com/Irankosher.htm


----------



## Gunny

jillian said:


> He's right about there being a single jewish representative in the Irani legislature. Last I heard, it was a guy named Maurice Motamed.
> 
> And there are synagogues, though I'm not sure how much autonomy they have. Most of the Jewish population escaped, though. I don't believe Jews are allowed to immigrate to or emigrate from Iran now. But I wouldn't swear to it.
> 
> These are the synagogues.
> 
> http://www.kosherdelight.com/Irankosher.htm



Thanks.  Heh ... I like how a single Jew = JewS.  Sure his name ain't "Token"?


----------



## jillian

GunnyL said:


> Thanks.  Heh ... I like how a single Jew = JewS.  Sure his name ain't "Token"?



He was actually referred to in an article I read as the 'token' Jew in the legislature. He was the one they put up front when there was talk of clothing having to have some type of religious identification (though it turned out that wasn't quite accurate).


----------



## DeadCanDance

GunnyL said:


> Link please.





> Iran's Jewish community is officially recognized as a religious minority group by the government, and, like the Zoroastrians, they are allocated one seat in the Iranian Parliament. Maurice Motamed has been the Jewish MP since 2000, and was re-elected again in 2004. In 2000, former Jewish MP Manuchehr Eliasi estimated that at that time there were still 30,000&#8211;35,000 Jews in Iran, other sources put the figure as low as 20,000&#8211;25,000.[33]
> 
> Today Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles.[2] Iranian Jews have their own newspaper (called "Ofogh-e-Bina") with Jewish scholars performing Judaic research at Tehran's "Central Library of Jewish Association".[34] The "Dr. Sapir Jewish Hospital" is Iran's largest charity hospital of any religious minority community in the country;[34] however, most of its patients and staff are Muslim.[35]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Current_status_in_Iran


Persian jews are discriminated against.  But, as usual you and kathy were wrong.   They do live, exist, and are represented in iran's legislature.  And they're not getting blown up or gettimg their heads cut off.  

Jews in muslim Turkey are treated quite well.  There is a vibrant jewish community in istanbul, and turkish-jewish relations are relatively warm.  As I recall, turkey was quite helpful to the jews during the holocaust. 

You really should reevaluate your stereotypes that all muslims are evil and bent on killing jews.   And the negative jewish stereotypes on this board are equally abhorrant.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> I'm not looking at it as justification. My point was that they expect Israel to do things they wouldn't expect of any other country.... like participate in its own destruction.
> 
> I actually try to be fair on this issue. And by fair, I mean that both should be autonomous and run their own governments. I don't, however, believe that fair means Israel should cease to exist or that Zionism is a dirty word. I'm quite proud of Israel and the way they've made a desert green and the things it has achieved. What I resent is when people take positions that would result in it being yet another Arab country in the middle east.




yea, it's funny how green grass grows better after having drank the blood of the former tenants.  Of COURSE I expect Iran to change.  did you NOT see the thread I posted YESTERDAY pointing out the rebellion of Iranian students?  You seem to think that the standard of progress is determined by the least amount of national effort as if it rationalizes the zionism that lets you rationalize the treatment of pals as "defense" rather than ethnic persicution.  I garenfuckingtee that if a single population of jews in ANY nation were systematically treated like israel treats pals you, onedomino and every other open zionist on this board would scream bloody fucking murder.  Meanwhile, you lame asss excuses for the israeli blank check is about as fucking lame as a white south african insisting on white superiority in south africa.  THE STANDARD IS NOT IRAN.  THE STANDARD IS THE WEST THAT LETS JEWS INTO HIGH POLITICS.  WHEN WILL ISRAEL LET US DIRTY FUCKING GOYIM INTO THEIR GOVERNMENT IN A LIKE FASHION?

If you can't answer that without some retarded fucking referance to a muslim nation then you might as well flash me hitlers favorite salute.  We've clearly traded yellow stars of david for a concrete wall.


Sorry if the INDEGENOUS POPULATION is a little too non-jewish for your tastes but, hey, at least you can admit that your national requirement hinges on ETHNICITY instead of POPULATION..  Obviously, what was evil for the Aryans is "DEFENSE" for the jews.  


I notice you backed WAY off the whole Law of Return issue.. funny how thats another blank check jewish bonus, isn't it?


----------



## AllieBaba

Larkinn said:


> Honestly...until there is a peace treaty again I don't think this question is relevant.   There are so many skirmishes back and forth that half of Israel and Palestine can claim to have been "fired on first".



Well, if the point being made is that Israelis wade into child-infested, peaceful neighborhoods to "allegedly" clean out combatants, I think it's pretty relevant that there are actually well-armed combatants there, who fired on them before the Israeli soldiers kicked their butts.

I also like the article which states four Israelis were "mildly" or "slightly" injured...but everything they accomplished is couched in terms of horror.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Well, if the point being made is that Israelis wade into child-infested, peaceful neighborhoods to "allegedly" clean out combatants, I think it's pretty relevant that there are actually well-armed combatants there, who fired on them before the Israeli soldiers kicked their butts.
> 
> I also like the article which states four Israelis were "mildly" or "slightly" injured...but everything they accomplished is couched in terms of horror.



Do you have a source that clarifies who shot at whom first?  Everyting I've read today NOW says it was standard operation.


But, praytel, how does demonlishing a gas station with a BULLDOZER fit into the strategy of reducing rockets fired into israel?  Sounds like ordering a case of whips for the farm hands in pre-civil war Georgia to me.  Certainly, if extracting violent pals is the motive bringing along a fucking pal settlement demonlishing tank sure will come in handy!  That Law of Return that Jillian mentioned may be a sin if muslims try to out populate jews but all the brand new emmigrants need somwhere to Canaanize!

and OF COURSE everything in that article only SLIGHTLY hurt israelis... THEY ARE SUPERMEN, you know!  Bullets bounce right off of them like anyone else who is chosen and wants an ethnically pure nation for themselves.  Indeed, but I"m the one posting propaganda.....


----------



## AllieBaba

Shogun said:


> Do you have a source that clarifies who shot at whom first?  Everyting I've read today NOW says it was standard operation.
> 
> 
> But, praytel, how does demonlishing a gas station with a BULLDOZER fit into the strategy of reducing rockets fired into israel?  Sounds like ordering a case of whips for the farm hands in pre-civil war Georgia to me.  Certainly, if extracting violent pals is the motive bringing along a fucking pal settlement demonlishing tank sure will come in handy!  That Law of Return that Jillian mentioned may be a sin if muslims try to out populate jews but all the brand new emmigrants need somwhere to Canaanize!
> 
> and OF COURSE everything in that article only SLIGHTLY hurt israelis... THEY ARE SUPERMEN, you know!  Bullets bounce right off of them like anyone else who is chosen and wants an ethnically pure nation for themselves.  Indeed, but I"m the one posting propaganda.....



The only souce I'm using is the article I thought you posted. It leads in with the big bad Israelis wiping out innocent men, women and children...then somewhere in about the second or third paragraph states that they had actually been fired on (and to me, it reads that this happened prior) but only mildly wounded.

I've been a journalist. I know how to distort a story and I recognize it when I see it. I'm not making any judgment about the situation, I'm just trying to see if anybody really knows what happened. I don't think you can tell from reading that article.


----------



## Shogun

I was hoping that posting the same story from three different sources might clear up how this event began.  When I posted it yesterday from jpost it stated that it was NOT routine, which would lead me to believe that pals struck first.  However, since then, the Jpost article has changed and NOW it seems to have been a routine effort.  My question is what does a bulldozer have to do with extracting militants when the entire population sees israeli bulldozers as the telltale sign of imported jews looking for land to take.  Kinda like giving nooses to the riot squad during the Watts Riots instead of batons.  Further, why are jewish holidays grounds for quelling what may or may not have even been a violent occasion?  


and, if you don't mind, are you comfortable allowing a government determine second class status and social rank according to ethnicity?  If so, what races do you think it's ok to let filter their governments of a non-common ethnicity?  Whites?  Blacks? Hispanics?  Jews?  Who should be allowed to use race as the sole midigating factor when applying common laws and opportunity?


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> Well, if the point being made is that Israelis wade into child-infested, peaceful neighborhoods to "allegedly" clean out combatants, I think it's pretty relevant that there are actually well-armed combatants there, who fired on them before the Israeli soldiers kicked their butts.



And there are well armed combatants there because Israel is sytematically oppressing the Palestinian people.

As I said...both sides have enough blood on their hands to justify attacks on the others.   Playing the blame game doesn't serve much purpose imo.


----------



## Ninja

> That is another sign of Jewish uniqueness: We are facing the entire world alone. As in the days of the Holocaust, all the Goyim have forsaken us. Face to face with the Iranian monster which threatens to devour us, we now stand here alone.



The JPost should run a traceroute on the IP of the user who posted this message. I'd bet money it originated somewhere in Missouri  

BTW, will we ever be able to place mods on our ignore lists? I think it should be an option when the most shrill motherfucker on a messageboard is made a staff member.


----------



## AllieBaba

I don't know. I wasn't aware the Israelis did that, and I haven't heard that from anyone but you and a few militant Pakistanis. I know Jews come in a variety of colors and nationalities, and as far as I know, they're all welcome in Israel. As are Arabs and people of any other nationality.

If they are segregating people according to the prejudices of the people they are segregating, to try to maintain a modicom of safety, then I don't see that as them being racist. They are maintaining peace in the only way those people will allow them.


----------



## AllieBaba

snowman said:


> The JPost should run a traceroute on the IP of the user who posted this message. I'd bet money it originated somewhere in Missouri
> 
> BTW, will we ever be able to place mods on our ignore lists? I think it should be an option when the most shrill motherfucker on a messageboard is made a staff member.



It's a matter of bringing him into the fold, I believe. He's toned down quite a bit since becoming a mod and I imagine that was part of the grand scheme of things.

It's like dealing with kids. You have a troublemaker, give him a little rope. He'll either become a leader or hang himself (figuratively speaking, of course.)


----------



## Ninja

Don't help, AB.


----------



## Shogun

yes, Allie...  run like a frightened little bitch from any issues that cast a dark light on israel.  Learn from snowmans example.  One cannot lose a bebate that they refuse to participate in.  I've posted numerous examples for the things I've said.  NUMEROUS sources that are not from davidduke.com.  Headlines that some easily ignore for the sake of their common master race.  What have you seen people like snowman add to this thread besides the standard antisemite button reply?  I've posted threads critical of israel but have YOU, as someone who is familiar with opposing my posts, EVER seen a single post that conveys that I simply hate jews because they are jews?  In fact, I challenge ANY zionist on this board to quote me conveying such hatred for the mere sake of ethnicity.  They won't respond though, Allie.  Why?  Because we all know that they have no arguement beyond calling me a jew hating anti-semite in order to kill the discussion of israels sins.  Review this thread and every other I've posted about israel and palestine.  See how i've posted threads showing a change in Iran as well.  I'm fully aware that failing to immediatly suck zionist cock amounts to the modern version of being a "****** lover" to muslims but I stand by my posts and invite you to look beyond the knee-jerk reaction that is the anti-semite routine.


----------



## Shogun

snowman said:


> The JPost should run a traceroute on the IP of the user who posted this message. I'd bet money it originated somewhere in Missouri
> 
> BTW, will we ever be able to place mods on our ignore lists? I think it should be an option when the most shrill motherfucker on a messageboard is made a staff member.



I guess that would be one more thing you'd be assbackwards wrong about but I'm sure calling me an antisemite will alleviate the truth requirement.

 

BTW, did someone threaten to march you off to a gas chamber if you didn't read this thread and my posts?  Dramatic, I know.  I'm just trying to mimick your participation in the thread so far.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> I don't know. I wasn't aware the Israelis did that, and I haven't heard that from anyone but you and a few militant Pakistanis. I know Jews come in a variety of colors and nationalities, and as far as I know, they're all welcome in Israel. As are Arabs and people of any other nationality.
> 
> If they are segregating people according to the prejudices of the people they are segregating, to try to maintain a modicom of safety, then I don't see that as them being racist. They are maintaining peace in the only way those people will allow them.




so whitey was just trying to preserve it's safety and stability by forming the knights of the klu klux klan?  This isn't a tapdanceable topic, Allie.  Do you or do you not agree with a system of government that treats it's citizens different according to ethnicity?  Yes, jews come in a range of differences (Do you think snoman will admit as much about palestinians?) SAFETY is not validation for racism.  How many white neighborhoods in America do you thnk would latch onto that excuse to keep the blacks, spanish, and *GASP* jews out of their towns and neighborhoods?  Feel free to answer honestly instead of regurgitating what the scorled eyes of people like snoman EXPECT good goyim to say.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> It's a matter of bringing him into the fold, I believe. He's toned down quite a bit since becoming a mod and I imagine that was part of the grand scheme of things.
> 
> It's like dealing with kids. You have a troublemaker, give him a little rope. He'll either become a leader or hang himself (figuratively speaking, of course.)




You can ask the powers that be why I was offered this status.  If i've toned down it's only been slightly.  snarky bitches like snoman will work against anyone who even remotely touches on a topic such as this even if I shit gold and cured cancer.  screaming antisemite isnt the only standard response, you know.


----------



## jillian

snowman said:


> Don't help, AB.



Ya think?


----------



## Ninja

What a fucking baby you are 

You have some very bizarre hangups. And a very disturbing obsession with being called an anti-Semite. Boo fucking hoo, Shogun. I for one couldn't give a flying fuck what you think of Jews, but if I truly thought you were an anti-Semite I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of me calling you one. 

I do find that you're a brass-faced liar and a hypocrite to be orgasmic:

(1) I've never called you an Anti-Semite

(2) You HAVE called me a "Goyim hater."

This was my favorite part:



			
				Shogun said:
			
		

> I'm fully aware that failing to immediatly suck zionist cock amounts to the modern version of being a "****** lover" to muslims but I stand by my posts and invite you to look beyond the *knee-jerk reaction* that is the anti-semite routine.



Drama queen. Good stuff, though. No hyperbole at all. Way to be the voice of truth and reason. I sure wish I'd made an effort to contribute more to this thread, with all of the reasonable debate going on


----------



## Ninja

Shogun said:
			
		

> Feel free to answer honestly instead of regurgitating what the scorled eyes of people like snoman EXPECT good goyim to say.



Hilarious. Way to "contribute to the thread," dude


----------



## Shogun

*What a fucking baby you are 

You have some very bizarre hangups. And a very disturbing obsession with being called an anti-Semite. Boo fucking hoo, Shogun. I for one couldn't give a flying fuck what you think of Jews, but if I truly thought you were an anti-Semite I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of me calling you one. *


yeaaaaa.. because your first post in this thread DOESN'T insinuate as much!  Shall I quote you or would that be a little too much antisemitism for ya?

 

*

I do find that you're a brass-faced liar and a hypocrite to be orgasmic:*

ORGASMIC?  THAT's the adjective that cums to mind?  Opinions and assholes, buddy.  I find that you lack even the slightest fucking backbone to address this debate on a level that doesn't allow the standard reaction to israli criticism within arms length.  There, now that we've aired the opinions would you might posting sources in kind or is your knee-jerk finger stuck on repeat?



*(1) I've never called you an Anti-Semite
(2) You HAVE called me a "Goyim hater."
This was my favorite part:
Drama queen. Good stuff, though. No hyperbole at all. Way to be the voice of truth and reason. I sure wish I'd made an effort to contribute more to this thread, with all of the reasonable debate going on *

Indeed, hiding behind barely blunt assertions without actually using the word absolves you of conveying the same thing!  How litigious of you!  It's almost like pharisees were.. oh, nevermind.  I'll let your first post in this entire thread act as my evidence.

Don't let that keep you from validating israels sins with Irans example though.. I'd hate for you to break a nail doing more than assuming that I am simply a jew hating racist.  But, if you want to play then let's do this.  Keep in mind though, I'm a bigger fan of Evidence and Sources than I am of your opinion about my motivations.


----------



## Shogun

snowman said:


> Hilarious. Way to "contribute to the thread," dude



I'll stack my posts up against *everything* YOU've added up to this point.

Indeed, let me pat you on the back instead.





* snowman snowman is online now
Registered User

Posts: 715
Rep Points 29196
Rep Power: 292

Quote:
That is another sign of Jewish uniqueness: We are facing the entire world alone. As in the days of the Holocaust, all the Goyim have forsaken us. Face to face with the Iranian monster which threatens to devour us, we now stand here alone.
The JPost should run a traceroute on the IP of the user who posted this message. I'd bet money it originated somewhere in Missouri

BTW, will we ever be able to place mods on our ignore lists? I think it should be an option when the most shrill motherfucker on a messageboard is made a staff member.*


Profound addition to the thread topic!

Congrats on such a masterful post.

 


You, sir, are a regular walt fucking whitman.


----------



## Ninja

Shogun said:


> yeaaaaa.. because your first post in this thread DOESN'T insinuate as much!



Insinutes, huh... Looks like someone's backing off of their original accusation  

It insinuates that you aren't a fan of Israel, which we both agree is very different from being an anti-Semite. You've backed yourself into a corner dude. Deal with it


----------



## Ninja

Shogun said:
			
		

> You, sir, are a regular walt fucking whitman.



Well shucks, nothing fancy like "sucking Zionist cock" but I do appreciate the compliment


----------



## Shogun

Yes, Insinuates.  You know, the LITIGIOUS way of applying the label.  You know, LIKE YOUR VERY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD?  Are you trying to hide behind a tapdance now?

Oops.. did I spill a little bit of that reality on your dress?

I'm not in a corner considering that IM the only one with balls enough to post a SINGLE source backing up my posts.  I'm STILL waiting for rebuttal that take any form beyond INSINUATING that I hate jews.  If you want to scrape together some gonadular matter and pull up a chair feel free to do so.  Otherwise, the last page is nothing more than the wet blanket being used to smother a discussion about the sins of israel.  

again.


----------



## Ninja

Yep, definitely litigious. I'd retain an attorney, dude. Maybe Jillian will take the case 

But props on all of that "gonadular matter" there, Shogun. Takes quite a bit of it to post on a message board


----------



## Shogun

snowman said:


> Well shucks, nothing fancy like "sucking Zionist cock" but I do appreciate the compliment




To the real artist in humanity, what are called bad manners are often the most picturesque and significant of all.
Walt Whitman


----------



## Ninja

brainyquote.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Shogun

snowman said:


> Yep, definitely litigious. I'd retain an attorney, dude. Maybe Jillian will take the case
> 
> But props on all of that "gonadular matter" there, Shogun. Takes quite a bit of it to post on a message board



Or, I daresay, breeching the Verboten topic that is addressing the sins of Israel..   I guess I could have squeezed in the adjective orgasmic somewhere if thats the kind of words youd rather read.

I take it you are going to pass this one up?  Can't say that I didn't see THAT coming a mile away.  So, the sum total of your addition to this thread amounted to.. what, exactly?


----------



## Shogun

snowman said:


> brainyquote.com!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



indeed.  I wanted to make sure my record of correct, sourced references remains at 100% so that we don't tangent the thread with another 20 posts about getting a single word wrong in the quote.

You know.. litigious beingthe word of the day and all.


----------



## Ninja

Uh, what exactly have your contributions amounted to? Oh, you're one of those "changing the world, one post at a time" people. Gotcha.


----------



## actsnoblemartin

similarities of iran's mullahs, iranian president and radical islam to wwII

1. they want to kill all jews
2. they want to invade all countries, (see the islamic history after mohammed died, and how radical islam wants a caliphate all over the world, with only muslims)


 Now im no genius, but if that doesnt sound like wwIII, or very similar to world war two, I honestly dont know what does my friend.



Shogun said:


> invading Iran over its nukes has NOTHING to do with your rant against a muslin nation.  Absolutely nothing.  KIlling homosexuals?  Do you have the first iota of PROOF or are we just shooting from the hip this side of the Nuke report?  POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY?  Look in the fucking mirror, Kath.
> 
> 
> 
> It reminds you of ww2 because you think that the quickest way to convince people into aggression with Iran is by forcing a correlation between the nazi treatment of jews to this.  let me toss out a hint:  THE ENTIRETY OF LIFE CANNOT BE REDUCED DOWN TO A COMPARISON TO THE HOLOCAUST JUST TO CREATE A FRENZY ABOUT ISRAELS ENEMIES.
> 
> 
> See how far the enablers will go?


----------



## Shogun

snowman said:


> Uh, what exactly have your contributions amounted to? Oh, you're one of those "changing the world, one post at a time" people. Gotcha.



for one, I seem to have breeched a subject that your own behaviour indicates is simply too taboo to consider.  Separating the assumption that criticisng zionists = hating jews is a healthy first step. 

for two, My brazen willingness to stand by my sources and posts, despite your snarky little assumptions and total lack of worthwhile input, allows others on this board to consider the humanity being shat upon by your pet nation without putting much weight on your lame assed standard reaction to the criticism of israel (by a GOYIM no less!)

for three, showing how beating you to the knee-jerk frustrates you into impotent three sentence posts pretty much conveys how empty your position really is without an ethnic common denominator.

Shall I go on?  Have you even made a point besides trying to muck up the topic yet?  I mean, you could at least cite the Jpost's rabid talkbacks or something, right?


----------



## Shogun

actsnoblemartin said:


> similarities of iran's mullahs, iranian president and radical islam to wwII
> 
> 1. they want to kill all jews
> 2. they want to invade all countries, (see the islamic history after mohammed died, and how radical islam wants a caliphate all over the world, with only muslims)
> 
> 
> Now im no genius, but if that doesnt sound like wwIII, or very similar to world war two, I honestly dont know what does my friend.



Show me your sources, Acts.  I've had my quota of bullshit muslim hating opinions already today.


----------



## AllieBaba

You could start with the Koran.


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> I don't know. I wasn't aware the Israelis did that, and I haven't heard that from anyone but you and a few militant Pakistanis. I know Jews come in a variety of colors and nationalities, and as far as I know, they're all welcome in Israel. As are Arabs and people of any other nationality.
> 
> If they are segregating people according to the prejudices of the people they are segregating, to try to maintain a modicom of safety, then I don't see that as them being racist. They are maintaining peace in the only way those people will allow them.



They segregate people based on their ethnicity, not on their prejudices.   They don't really like black people either from what I've heard.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> You could start with the Koran.




Or I can start with the bible.  ill trade violent story for violent story from the koran and the OT anyday.


----------



## Shogun

Larkinn said:


> They segregate people based on their ethnicity, not on their prejudices.   They don't really like black people either from what I've heard.


*
Civil rights group: Israel has reached new heights of racism*
Racism against Israel's Arab citizens has dramatically increased in the past year, including a 26 percent rise in anti-Arab incidents, according to the Association for Civil Rights in Israel's annual report.

Author Sami Michael, the association's president, said upon the release of the report that racism was so rife it was damaging civil liberty in Israel.

"Israeli society is reaching new heights of racism that damages freedom of
e
	Advertisement
xpression and privacy," Michael said. The publication coincides with Human Rights Week, which begins Sunday.

"We are a society under supervision under a democratic regime whose institutions are being undermined and which confers a different status to residents in the center of the country and in the periphery," Michael said.

The number of Jews expressing feelings of hatred toward Arabs has doubled, the report stated.

According to the June 2007 Democracy Index of the Israel Democracy Institute, for example, only half the public believes that Jews and Arabs must have full equal rights.

*Among Jewish respondents, 55 percent support the idea that the state should encourage Arab emigration from Israel and 78 percent oppose the inclusion of Arab political parties in the government. According to a Haifa University study, 74 percent of Jewish youths in Israel think that Arabs are "unclean."*

The ACRI says that bills introduced in the Knesset contribute to delegitimize the country's Arab citizens, such as ones that would link the right to vote and receive state allowances to military or national service.

They also include bills that require ministers and MKs to swear allegiance to a Jewish state and those that set aside 13 percent of all state lands owned by the Jewish National Fund for Jews only.

"Arab citizens are frequently subject to ridicule at the airports," the report states.

It says that Arab citizens "are subject to 'racial profiling' that classifies them as a security threat. The government also threatens the freedom of expression of Arab journalists by brandishing the whip of economic boycott and ending the publication of government announcements in newspapers that criticize its policy."

Hadash Chairman MK Mohammad Barakeh said that the report "did not take us by surprise and neither should anyone be surprised by it. Its results are the natural consequence of a racist campaign led by political and military leaders, as well as the result of the anti-Arab racist policies implemented by consecutive governments." 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/932384.html



I tellya.. It's the REAL jew hating bigots that use HAARETZ as a source!

 

Clearly, accusing israel of racism is just like throwing a jew down a well.


----------



## AllieBaba

Then again, they do have to deal continually with bombs in their midst, at restaurants, near schools, etc.

It could make one a little sensitive...


----------



## Ninja

Shogun said:


> Separating the assumption that criticisng zionists = hating jews is a healthy first step.



You're such a bore. And an unrepentent liar. And a hypocrite to boot. Show me *one post* where I've called you an anti-Semite (I've made this request ad nauseum and have doubt you'll duck it yet again, but it's worth a try I suppose). You want to talk about separating assumptions, Shogun, start with wrapping your head around this very simple concept:

Criticizing Shogun &#8800; hating Goyim, ya fuck. 



			
				Shogun said:
			
		

> My brazen willingness



That's almost as pathetic as lieberalism's "culture warrior" nonsense. You da man, Shogun! Look out guys, Shogun's here and he's "brazenly willing"... To make anonymous posts on the internet.



			
				Shogun said:
			
		

> for three, showing how beating you to the knee-jerk frustrates you into impotent three sentence posts pretty much conveys how empty your position really is without an ethnic common denominator.



My knee-jerks. LOL. I'm sitting here watching some psychopath in Missouri bang his head on the keyboard of his Compaq because someone pointed out that his "brazen willingness" consists of lies and hypocrisy. And I'm the knee-jerker. Right. But props for your "brazen willingness" to call me out on it, dude. Takes a lot of guts. I mean, it's not like we're debating in an anonymous medium or anything. 

I realized long ago that attempting rational debate with you on Israel is a waste of time, and derive more enjoyment from exposing your lies and hypocrisy. Does this change the world? No, but it sure doess piss you off:







Keep fighting the good fight, Shogun! Your "brazen willingness" is to be commended. Maybe lieberalism will give you a Medal of Brazen Williingnes for your valiant (albeit 100&#37; anonymous - but we won't mention that) service in the Flame Wars.

And speaking of "mucking up the topic" - I see we have a new post from our "brazenly willing" buddy Shogun on the increasing level of racism in Israel. Which is inextricably related to the N.I.E. That's our "brazenly willing" friend Shogun for ya. Just the relevent facts, ma'am.


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> Then again, they do have to deal continually with bombs in their midst, at restaurants, near schools, etc.
> 
> It could make one a little sensitive...



I'm sure they are sensitive.   But too often its "well the Israelis have to deal with x, y, and z and so they are justified in atrocity a, b and c".   People forget that when the Palestinians are on the recieving end of atrocity a, b, and c, they then retaliate with atrocity d, e, and f.   Thats why I said its irrelevant who fired first in that one particular skirmish.   

Both sides have committed atrocities.   Both sides are to blame.


----------



## Shogun

Here, let me dump some more EVIDENCE on your lap before I kick your silly little post in the ass.




*Racism in Israel on the rise *
Association for Civil Rights in Israel publishes annual report; reveals country overwhelmed by racism, restriction of personal freedoms, discrimination, especially towards Israeli-Arabs. Report not surprising, say Arab MKs

Aviram Zino
Published: 	12.08.07, 23:51 / Israel News

The Association for Civil Rights in Israel's (ACRI) report on civil rights in Israel paints a bleak picture: Increasing racism, restriction of personal freedoms and discrimination even within the Knesset walls  and that's just scratching the surface. 
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3480345,00.html




*Marriage to an Arab is national treason*

Recent poll reveals steep rise in racist views against Arabs in Israel; many participants feel hatred, fear when overhearing Arabic, 75 percent dont approve of shared apartment buildings

Roee Nahmias
Published: 	03.27.07, 19:55 / Israel News

Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute.


The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3381978,00.html


*Israel accused of racism against Ethiopian Jews*
author Saturday December 08, 2007 05:49author by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC Newsauthor email saed at imemc dot org Report this post to the editors

    In addition to the ongoing and well-documented racism agianst the Palestinian people, the Israeli society is now being accused of severe racism by some of its own members.
http://www.imemc.org/article/51918


* Forgive us our racism*
By Goel Pinto

The murder of Taysir Karaki of Beit Hanina, 35 and the father of five, was carried out by a single individual, but the soil on which the Jewish-French terrorist Julian Soufir thrived nevertheless bears collective examination.

More than a few French Jews explained during the recent presidential election campaign that they were for Nicolas Sarkozy because of the iron fist he employed against first-generation Muslim immigrants in the Paris suburb riots of 2005. His unequivocal support for the Jewish community after Ilan Halimi's murder in 2006 and the fact he ascribed anti-Semitic motives to it also helped Sarkozy to win over many French Jews. Remarks along the lines of "the Arabs are taking over France" and "we need a real man to put things right here" were voiced by more than a few Jews during the campaign. 
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/860025.html


*Racism In Israel Reached New Heights In 2007*
Monday, 10 December 2007, 10:12 am
Press Release: ACRI
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0712/S00605.htm


*Israel and Racism*
Inseparable Allies
        "colonization, I repeat, dehumanizes even the most civilized manthe colonizer, who in order to ease his conscience gets into the habit of seeing the other man as an animal, accustoms himself to treating him like an animal, and tends objectively to transform himself into an animal."
        --Aimé Césaire 1



The history of all hitherto existing anti-Palestinian propaganda is the history of outright racism. The Israelis and their political allies have bred and nurtured a malicious beast, kept well-fed on a steady diet of hatred and contempt for the Palestinian people. It bristles with anger at the mention of forced expulsions, military occupation, and excessive use of force. Fangs bare, claws extended, eyes glaring, it aims to scare out the moral consciences of its victims, so as to render them indifferent to the plight of other human beings. 

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=6412

*Israeli anti-Arab racism 'rises'*
An Israeli civil rights group has said racism against Arab citizens of Israel has risen sharply in the past year.

In a report, the Association for Civil Rights in Israel said expression of anti-Arab views had doubled, and racist incidents had increased by 26%.

Christian or Muslim Arab citizens of Israel make up 20% of the population.

But the civil rights quoted polls suggesting half of Jewish Israelis do not believe Arab citizens of Israel should have equal rights.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7136068.stm


NOW, I know you have absolutely no intention of backing up your lame fucking goyim hating rhetoric so maybe you can spend your next briss with a book in your hand instead of a dick in your mouth and take a more objective look at your precious fucking israel.

*You're such a bore. And an unrepentent liar. And a hypocrite to boot. Show me one post where I've called you an anti-Semite (I've made this request ad nauseum and have doubt you'll duck it yet again, but it's worth a try I suppose). You want to talk about separating assumptions, Shogun, start with wrapping your head around this very simple concept:

Criticizing Shogun &#8800; hating Goyim, ya fuck. *


Again, I've pointed out you unoriginal assertion of such in your very first post.   If acting like a pharisee clears your conscious then so be it.  No, criticizing my POINTS is not hating goyim.  so far, your total lack of even the slightest attempt at debating the issue instead of talking shit to me conveys your motivations.  Rationalizing racism and ethnic hatred instead of providing your own sources to back up your own opinions like I've been doing the entire thread conveys your motivations.  But hey, I accept your master race mentality for what it is.  After all, we've seen if before in WW2.

*
That's almost as pathetic as lieberalism's "culture warrior" nonsense. You da man, Shogun! Look out guys, Shogun's here and he's "brazenly willing"... To make anonymous posts on the internet.*

On a forum where your very own posts convey the standard reaction? Hell, your participation in this little tangent pretty much makes my point.  What can I say, bitch slapping you with reality to the point of screaming Libel is half the fun.  Indeed, goyim who are not starry eyed and the chosen race probably IS the he-man to your Skelator!

HA!


*My knee-jerks. LOL. I'm sitting here watching some psychopath in Missouri bang his head on the keyboard of his Compaq because someone pointed out that his "brazen willingness" consists of lies and hypocrisy. And I'm the knee-jerker. Right. But props for your "brazen willingness" to call me out on it, dude. Takes a lot of guts. I mean, it's not like we're debating in an anonymous medium or anything.*


What certainly DOESN't seem to take a lot of guts is addressing the topic of the thread.  But hey, look at us off on this tangent SAFELY removed from all the big evil talk of criticism towards Israel.  Of COURSE it's the PSYCHOS that cite their courses!  I tellya, nothing says "i'm a jew with massive E-Balls" quite like strawmanning the subject due to a total lack of anything to add other than talking shit to the dirty goyim, eh?  hey, since you are on a roll, and thankfully a shit talking jew can never be racist, would you mind skipping posting so much fluff and addressing the topic of the thread?  I realize it will be hard to break away from your version of ****** jokes but I've got all this EVIDENCE to hang off of your peyos and it's CLEAR what you are trying desperatly to avoid.  

You want to bitch about an anonymous forum?  That certainly is your prerogative.  You can believe what you want to believe and, judging by your fuzzy cognitive function regarding Israel, probably doesn't count for much outside the good ole boy temple.  


*
I realized long ago that attempting rational debate with you on Israel is a waste of time, and derive more enjoyment from exposing your lies and hypocrisy. Does this change the world? No, but it sure doess piss you off:*


HAHAHA!  Trust me, dude. Watching you dodge the topic and hide behind goyim hating strawmen makes me LAUGH, not angry!  LIES?  tell it to the sources I've dropped on your beard, sucker.  HYPOCRACY?  HAHAHAHAHA!  Thats the richest accusation of all considring the irony of Israel treating the pals like the germans treated you!  But, hey, be my guest and have a laugh even if you are not totally sure who it is with the dunce cap on.

 

You crack me up with your chosen self-righteousness!
*
Keep fighting the good fight, Shogun! Your "brazen willingness" is to be commended. Maybe lieberalism will give you a Medal of Brazen Williingnes for your valiant (albeit 100% anonymous - but we won't mention that) service in the Flame Wars.

And speaking of "mucking up the topic" - I see we have a new post from our "brazenly willing" buddy Shogun on the increasing level of racism in Israel. Which is inextricably related to the N.I.E. That's our "brazenly willing" friend Shogun for ya. Just the facts, ma'am.*

I figure SOMEONES gotta show you what backing up your position with sources looks like since, by evidence of your own participation, you seem to think shit talking the goyim works just as well.  Say, did you want to lecture me on tangents before or AFTER you finally post a single thing that has anything to do with this thread besides talking shit to goyim?

hehehehehehehe...


hey, if nothing else you can tell me what kind of jew hating antisemites are at every single piece of evidence I just posted!  That should keep your wailing wall erect for a little while!


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Then again, they do have to deal continually with bombs in their midst, at restaurants, near schools, etc.
> 
> It could make one a little sensitive...



READ my sources, Allie.  EVERYONE is sensitive about this issue.  Tell me if briss in the mouth snoman has you sidetracked enough to steer your attention AWAY from every article i've posted in this thread.  whites were sensitive in the early days of desegregation too.  This doesn't validate Emmet Till death or the cntinued treatment of blacks 100 years after the emancipation proclamation..  

Again, read for yourself.  Israel is not immaculate.  Jews are human just like Pals even if the dogma requires a little chosen worship as the ticket to heaven.


----------



## AllieBaba

Nobody is immaculate. But I think there's validity in defending yourself, and not so much validity in declaring that if your attackers are of a certain religion or race who are attacking you because YOU'RE of a particular religion or race, then you are also racist for recognizing and fighting them.

I see all your sources. I see the bold (and misleading) leadins you have for them. They all look slanted to me.


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> But I think there's validity in defending yourself, and not so much validity in declaring that if your attackers are of a certain religion or race who* are attacking you because YOU'RE of a particular religion or race,* then you are also racist for recognizing and fighting them.



You think the only reasons the Palestinians are fighting Israel is because Israel is full of Jews?


----------



## AllieBaba

I'm not going to argue whether or not the Palestinians are justified in what they do. We're discussing whether Israel is racist or not.


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> I'm not going to argue whether or not the Palestinians are justified in what they do. We're discussing whether Israel is racist or not.



No, actually you are discussing whether Israel is justified in being racist or not.   If you think they aren't racist at all, you are just misinformed.


----------



## jillian

Larkinn said:


> No, actually you are discussing whether Israel is justified in being racist or not.   If you think they aren't racist at all, you are just misinformed.



I don't think the subject initially was about Israel being racist. I thought it was about the article posted about the NIE report. Once the full article was viewed, it wasn't the "jewish hand-wringing" that the cherry picked quotes made it appear, but was actually an interesting article.

Of course, Shogun then made it about the hateful state of Israel and went on from there.


----------



## AllieBaba

Actually, no, Larkinn, we were currently discussing whether they were racist or not. I hadn't really come to a conclusion. Then you butted in with your bait. Which I didn't take, but you got to say what you wanted anyway...that I, as usual, am misinformed, and you, as usual, are the high priest of all knowledge.

Shalom.


----------



## Larkinn

jillian said:


> I don't think the subject initially was about Israel being racist. I thought it was about the article posted about the NIE report. Once the full article was viewed, it wasn't the "jewish hand-wringing" that the cherry picked quotes made it appear, but was actually an interesting article.
> 
> Of course, Shogun then made it about the hateful state of Israel and went on from there.



It wasn't initially, but thats the latest permutation of it.   

And for all the cries of anti-Semitism, Shogun has a very valid point.   Palestinians are getting shitted on and Israel gets away with a lot.   Its somehow ok to kill people with tanks and bulldozers and soldiers, and denying them medical treatment and good housing and food, but militants well then its a goddamned atrocity!


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> Actually, no, Larkinn, we were currently discussing whether they were racist or not. I hadn't really come to a conclusion. Then you butted in with your bait. Which I didn't take, but you got to say what you wanted anyway...that I, as usual, am misinformed, and you, as usual, are the high priest of all knowledge.
> 
> Shalom.



Except that I didn't say that you are misinformed, and I didn't even mention myself.   But sure...whatever you want to think.


----------



## AllieBaba

Larkinn said:


> No, actually you are discussing whether Israel is justified in being racist or not.   If you think they aren't racist at all, you are just misinformed.



Hmmmm....


----------



## Larkinn

AllieBaba said:


> Hmmmm....



Hmmm indeed.   You do know that "IF" signifies a conditional, yes?   IF you believe that you are misinformed.   Do you believe it?   I have no idea.  Because, despite claiming to argue about it, you havent stated an opinion on it.


----------



## AllieBaba

I didn't say we were arguing it, and we weren't arguing. We were discussing it. And, as I already told you, I hadn't come to an opinion yet. I can see you're anxious for me to do so, but unfortunately, it will require some more thought on my part.

But as soon as I decide where I fall on this one, you'll be the first to know.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Nobody is immaculate. But I think there's validity in defending yourself, and not so much validity in declaring that if your attackers are of a certain religion or race who are attacking you because YOU'RE of a particular religion or race, then you are also racist for recognizing and fighting them.
> 
> I see all your sources. I see the bold (and misleading) leadins you have for them. They all look slanted to me.



the ALL look slanted, eh?  

hehehe.. OOOOK.   Why don't you treat yourself and follow the links then??  MISLEADING?  yes, it sure is magical how the article states an increase in overt racism against non-jews in israel and *POOF* the article is all of a sudden misleading.

Again, I challenge you to READ the articles and CONSIDER that the sources are just as worthy as when they run an article that catches YOUR eye.  These are not blogs.  They are not Davidduke.com.  They are not wiki.  if you want to insist that they are slanted then give me an example of such.  DENIAL based on zion worship doesn't belay the reported facts.  It's exactly this kind of blank check treatment of israel that allows jews to treat the pals like the germans threated them.  I guess, to me, humanity is more important than the dogma connection and burning bush real estate deals.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> I don't think the subject initially was about Israel being racist. I thought it was about the article posted about the NIE report. Once the full article was viewed, it wasn't the "jewish hand-wringing" that the cherry picked quotes made it appear, but was actually an interesting article.
> 
> Of course, Shogun then made it about the hateful state of Israel and went on from there.



indeed, if it were merely the case of some jew hating goyim in the midwest.  Do I need to draw the line between the dots leading from israeli denial of the nuke report to demonizing muslims in muslim nations/rationalizing of violence against muslims as rationalized "defense" to the ever present issue of israels treatment of pals to the EVIDENCE posted of the RACIST element in israel allowing the pattern of hatred and violence against non-jews?

I know.. that shogun... gotta watch out for him if you are oth next to a well.


----------



## Shogun

AllieBaba said:


> Hmmmm....



I DID post the articles....


It seems to me that if racism in the US against minority groups (jews included) is bad and worthy of condemnation then so to is racism unjustifiable in israel.  I don't care if Iran does it.  I don't care if Saudi Arabia still makes their women live under rocks.  THEY are not the western example and justification for the state of Israel.  If we can accept ethnic racism in Israel where a muslim will NEVER be PM then there is no reason that whitey can't filter out the jews from OUR nations government.  I don't advocate the racism in either option.  But, consistency won't validate the zionist blank check.


master race = chosen race
ethnic cleansing in germany = ethnic cleansing in israel
second class citizenship in germany for jews = second class citizenship for pals.


Why the hell else do you think that Olmert was insisting that a jewish israel will not exhist without a muslim palestine?  INTEGRATION blows the zionist plan right out of the water kinda like Dresden did for the Aryan race.  Since jews are no more sinnless than any other human they CAN become every bit as hateful and wrapped up in their own excuses as the german fuhrer.  I"VE PRESENTED THE EVIDENCE.  READ IT.  COMPARE IT TO THE ZILTCH OFFERED IN OPPOSITION.  Painting me as a jew hating goyim won't make jews in israel live next to dirty arabs peacefully and if you think that giant concrete walls HERDING pals like cattle matched with this amount of racism DOESN"T qualify as aparthied then you would certainly have been asked to visit south africa in the 80s.


----------



## jillian

Larkinn said:


> It wasn't initially, but thats the latest permutation of it.
> 
> And for all the cries of anti-Semitism, Shogun has a very valid point.   Palestinians are getting shitted on and Israel gets away with a lot.   Its somehow ok to kill people with tanks and bulldozers and soldiers, and denying them medical treatment and good housing and food, but militants well then its a goddamned atrocity!



Except you're misstating facts. There are two sides to it. If Palestinians got together and decided to live side by side, in two neighboring states, they could have had that a long time ago. It isn't reasonable to expect people to self-destruct.

Nor is it Israel's obligation to give housing and food to the Palestinians. They got billions in international aid. Good chunks of it ende up in Suha Arafat's French bank account.

As for bulldozing houses, I always thought that was a bad idea. But that hasn't happened in a long time. Even Sharon, before he went into a coma, had taken a much more moderate position on that. So why it's still being discussed is something I don't really understand.

And I don't normally agree with Martin, but he isn't wrong about one thing. When Israel unilaterally withdrew, it got Kadushas. What do you think this country would do if terrorists who lived in Canada were firing missiles into Michegan?


----------



## jillian

Shogun said:


> indeed, if it were merely the case of some jew hating goyim in the midwest.  Do I need to draw the line between the dots leading from israeli denial of the nuke report to demonizing muslims in muslim nations/rationalizing of violence against muslims as rationalized "defense" to the ever present issue of israels treatment of pals to the EVIDENCE posted of the RACIST element in israel allowing the pattern of hatred and violence against non-jews?
> 
> I know.. that shogun... gotta watch out for him if you are oth next to a well.



Funny how you insist on putting attacks into my mouth that were never there in order to avoid acknowledging that there are two sides to this story.


----------



## Larkinn

jillian said:


> Except you're misstating facts. There are two sides to it. If Palestinians got together and decided to live side by side, in two neighboring states, they could have had that a long time ago. It isn't reasonable to expect people to self-destruct.



Ah well if the Palestinians would just accept all past and present injustices being done, and agree to live in peace next to a state made up partially of their parents lands where they cannot live and have no right of return?  

Its not as easy as saying "well ok live side by side in peace now".  



> Nor is it Israel's obligation to give housing and food to the Palestinians. They got billions in international aid. Good chunks of it ende up in Suha Arafat's French bank account.



Considering Israel blocks a lot of the trade routes and the checkpoints make it wildly wildly uneconomic and inefficient for anything to pass through, yes I think it is partially their responsiblity to provide food and housing.   



> As for bulldozing houses, I always thought that was a bad idea. But that hasn't happened in a long time. Even Sharon, before he went into a coma, had taken a much more moderate position on that. So why it's still being discussed is something I don't really understand.



I didn't say bulldoze homes.   Bulldozers still go in and destroy buildings and infrastructure, and kill individuals.   



> And I don't normally agree with Martin, but he isn't wrong about one thing. When Israel unilaterally withdrew, it got Kadushas. What do you think this country would do if terrorists who lived in Canada were firing missiles into Michegan?



And what would you do if your parents had been kicked off their land, you were a second class citizen, you are forced to go through Israeli checkpoints and treated like animals?   

As I said...I blame both sides.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> Funny how you insist on putting attacks into my mouth that were never there in order to avoid acknowledging that there are two sides to this story.



RACISM in israel is the result of two sides of a story, eh?

Like I said, IM the one posting threads about change in iran sans nukes.  Not you.  Certainly not the zionist fanboi who clearly doesn't give a shit about non-jewish sides of ANY story.  Sure, there were two sides to the Emmet Till case too, Jillian.  Which side do YOU sympathize with?  There were two sides to the HOLOCAUST TOO.  Will we get to frogmarch the Israeli population past the ethnic segregation like we did with the germans post-ww2?  What two sides VALIDATES whitey and jews ethnically cleansing their nations, Jillian?  If the religious persicution of europeans that drove em to North America isn't an excuse to purge blacks and jews from Americas government then guess how much of an excuse it is when Israel is doing that very thing to non-jews right now.

I"VE posted the articles, Jillian.  Feel free to address THAT side before shaking your finger at me about ignoring sides.


----------



## Shogun

and, speaking of Bulldozers...

the articles above state that they were included in this routine incursion.  Tell me, what does tearing down a gas station have to do with hunting down pal rockets?


Certainly, as effective in finding peace as turning a blind eye to jewish squatters who really don't give the first rats ass about the former non-jew who lived there before disqualification due to race.


----------



## jillian

Shogun said:


> RACISM in israel is the result of two sides of a story, eh?
> 
> Like I said, IM the one posting threads about change in iran sans nukes.  Not you.  Certainly not the zionist fanboi who clearly doesn't give a shit about non-jewish sides of ANY story.  Sure, there were two sides to the Emmet Till case too, Jillian.  Which side do YOU sympathize with?  There were two sides to the HOLOCAUST TOO.  Will we get to frogmarch the Israeli population past the ethnic segregation like we did with the germans post-ww2?  What two sides VALIDATES whitey and jews ethnically cleansing their nations, Jillian?  If the religious persicution of europeans that drove em to North America isn't an excuse to purge blacks and jews from Americas government then guess how much of an excuse it is when Israel is doing that very thing to non-jews right now.
> 
> I"VE posted the articles, Jillian.  Feel free to address THAT side before shaking your finger at me about ignoring sides.




No. There were not two sides to the Holocaust. And your continued use of anti-semitic imagery doesn't add very much to debate, particularly when discussing things with me.

Like I said....


----------



## Larkinn

Shogun said:


> RACISM in israel is the result of two sides of a story, eh?



It is.   I don't think its justifiable, but surely the case can be made for it.


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> No. There were not two sides to the Holocaust. And your continued use of anti-semitic imagery doesn't add very much to debate, particularly when discussing things with me.
> 
> Like I said....



ahh well, silly me....   I guess I should have KNOWN that the only vocab easily swallowed is that which talks shit on muslims.  Indeed, how very crazy of me to even put israel and racism in the same sentence!

Yes, jillian, if there are two sides to ISRAELS racism then there were two sides to Germanys.  I realize that accepting the you are human just like the german is a stretch and, of COURSE, there have NEVER in the hisotry of the entire fucking planet been a single group of people picked on like the jews (in accordance with goyim training) but you cannot give israel a double standard just because you have an ethinicty in common with those who want that nation to remain PURE jewish.


PURE JEWISH jillian.  You know, just like PURE ARYIAN.


I'll wear any label tossed my way long enough for you to figure out the direct similarity between the perogatives of both racist states.


----------



## Shogun

*Red Cross urges action to lift Palestinians' plight*

Lack of essentials such as medicines, food and water means people in the Palestinian territories are finding it increasingly difficult to live normal and dignified lives, the Red Cross said Thursday.

Medical facilities and water supplies are increasingly fragile in the Gaza Strip, while economic and social life in the West Bank is severely restricted, the International Committee of the Red Cross said.

Gaza has been largely isolated since June when Hamas seized control by force, triggering the virtual closure of its borders with Israel and Egypt.

"The measures imposed by Israel come at an enormous humanitarian cost, leaving the people living under occupation with just enough to survive, but not enough to live a normal and dignified life," said Beatrice Megevand Roggo, ICRC's head of operations for the Middle East.

Ordinary people were paying the price for the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestinian militant groups, she said, adding that the violent dispute between the Hamas and Fatah factions was contributing to the problem.

"The Palestinian population has effectively become a hostage to the conflict," Megevand Roggo said.

ICRC appealed for "immediate political steps to be taken to improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza and the West Bank," including Israel easing travel restrictions.

The agency also said Palestinian factions should "stop targeting civilian areas and endangering the lives of civilians." 

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1196847333149&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull


Thankfully, we all know what kind of a bastion of jew hating antisemites is the red cross.


Anyone care to toss out a random guess regarding the nature of this articles Talkbacks?


----------



## Shogun

heeeeeere snowman snowman snowman... Be a good little pussy on your way back from the litter box and tell me what kind of jew hating antisemite the red cross in NOW....



Indeed, why don't you go ahead and point out every jew hating journalist from each of my sources that would DARE to put racism and israel in the same sentence given the pattern of israeli reaction to muslims of all flavors, be they Iran or pal.



I bet calling me a fat guy in the midwest will make your point!


sources?  the CHOSEN don't NEEED no stinking sources!


----------



## jillian

Shogun said:


> ahh well, silly me....   I guess I should have KNOWN that the only vocab easily swallowed is that which talks shit on muslims.  Indeed, how very crazy of me to even put israel and racism in the same sentence!
> 
> Yes, jillian, if there are two sides to ISRAELS racism then there were two sides to Germanys.  I realize that accepting the you are human just like the german is a stretch and, of COURSE, there have NEVER in the hisotry of the entire fucking planet been a single group of people picked on like the jews (in accordance with goyim training) but you cannot give israel a double standard just because you have an ethinicty in common with those who want that nation to remain PURE jewish.
> 
> 
> PURE JEWISH jillian.  You know, just like PURE ARYIAN.
> 
> 
> I'll wear any label tossed my way long enough for you to figure out the direct similarity between the perogatives of both racist states.



Where have I expressed hatred against Muslims as an entire race? 

Again, you addressed not a single point about Arab treatment of Jews or Palestinian terrorism, yet engage in another rant about Israel and likening me to something you know I am nothing like and hate. Your likening Israel to Germany and me to nazis is ignorant, ill-informed, disingenuous... no... make that lying. But if it makes you feel better about yourself. Me? I think you're pretty disgusting. And you can think what you want about yourself, but the things you just said, I think you're one of the most raging jew-haters I've seen. At least WJ is up front about it.

Thanks for proving every point made about you. I'm sorry you have such hatred in you.

Leh lehizdayen


----------



## Shogun

jillian said:


> Where have I expressed hatred against Muslims as an entire race?
> 
> Again, you addressed not a single point about Arab treatment of Jews or Palestinian terrorism, yet engage in another rant about Israel and likening me to something you know I am nothing like and hate.
> 
> Thanks for proving every point made about you. I'm sorry you have such hatred in you.



ahh yes.. it's MY hatred that causes journalists to write about the racism in israel against non jews.

Gotcha.

It's easy to simply assume that I HATE, isn't it Jill?  Yet, please, remind how I jump the shark by jumping right to the antisemite label reaction.

Where in the hell have you expressed the slightest bit of empathy for the humanity in palestine AND iran when it conflicts with the team ethnic jersey?  It's NOT the pals who force israel to build walls, 'doze settlements to make way for more jews and MAKE JEWS ANSWER THAT THEY DONT WANT NON-JEWS TO HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS.  You can read that for yourself in the articles I've posted.


Or, you can continue assuming that Im just out to getcha.  Whatever makes your day easier to cope with.  Your status quo is no different than Germany's even it you can't believe that you are human enough to possess the same capacity for ethnic marginalization as any other dominant ethnic group...


It's not acceptable when jews do the same things that Aryans tried to do, Jillian.  If, in any way shape or form, you want to deny that then it's probably indicative of more than what label I get to wear. 


The Red cross, the BBC, Multiple OTHER news organizations.. PLEASE tell me that you are capable of a better response than snowman...  I mean, telling a dirty goyim that he is a fat guy in the internent in the midwest may prove something in his circle but....


----------



## onedomino

jillian said:


> Where have I expressed hatred against Muslims as an entire race?
> 
> Again, you addressed not a single point about Arab treatment of Jews or Palestinian terrorism, yet engage in another rant about Israel and likening me to something you know I am nothing like and hate. Your likening Israel to Germany and me to nazis is ignorant, ill-informed, disingenuous... no... make that lying. But if it makes you feel better about yourself. Me? I think you're pretty disgusting. And you can think what you want about yourself, but the things you just said, I think you're one of the most raging jew-haters I've seen. At least WJ is up front about it.
> 
> Thanks for proving every point made about you. I'm sorry you have such hatred in you.
> 
> Leh lehizdayen


I agree. I feel like I need a regimen of anti-rabies shots after reading Shogun's extremist posts.


----------



## Shogun

Oh I know.. daring to suggest that jews in israel are human enough to be capable of the exact same hatred that brought about the holocaust, by the evidence of their interaction with muslims in palestine and Iran, is so EXTREEEEEME


MADDNESS, I say!


Hey, maybe you can get those rabies shots from the Red Cross... you know.. if they were not a bastion of antisemites suggesting the SAME thing I am.

Perhaps if you spent a few moments READING MY EVIDENCE... nawww.. What silliness is that!  CLEARLY insinuating that the goyim merely hates jews will suffice.


----------



## Paulie

onedomino said:


> I agree. I feel like I need a regimen of anti-rabies shots after reading Shogun's extremist posts.



No you don't.  You just feel better equating his posts with racism, because that way, in your own twisted little world, you can feel right about your own beliefs.

I haven't yet read anything he said that could be deemed racist.  The entire time, he's been trying to DEFEND the racist accusations, but because of the delicate line between defending a race, and OFFENDING another one, you have taken the opportunity to spin what he said as racist.

This sums it up succinctly:  Being Pro-ZIONIST (not pro Israel, but pro ZIONIST Israel), especially in light of the holocaust, somehow gives people the inclination to accuse others who speak against the ZIONIST ideology of Israel's existence, of being anti-semitic.

I haven't once in my entire time of being politically involved, seen even ONE TIME where that has held any weight.

Jews were oppressed.  Ok.  We get it.  So were, and ARE, Christians, Muslims, NATIVE AMERICANS, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.

Past oppression is never justification for present arrogance.  

Rodney King said it best:  Can't we all just get along?


----------



## Shogun

Paulitics said:


> *No you don't.  You just feel better equating his posts with racism, because that way, in your own twisted little world, you can feel right about your own beliefs.
> 
> I haven't yet read anything he said that could be deemed racist.  The entire time, he's been trying to DEFEND the racist accusations, but because of the delicate line between defending a race, and OFFENDING another one, you have taken the opportunity to spin what he said as racist.
> 
> This sums it up succinctly:  Being Pro-ZIONIST (not pro Israel, but pro ZIONIST Israel), especially in light of the holocaust, somehow gives people the inclination to accuse others who speak against the ZIONIST ideology of Israel's existence, of being anti-semitic.
> 
> I haven't once in my entire time of being politically involved, seen even ONE TIME where that has held any weight.
> 
> Jews were oppressed.  Ok.  We get it.  So were, and ARE, Christians, Muslims, NATIVE AMERICANS, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.
> 
> Past oppression is never justification for present arrogance.
> 
> Rodney King said it best:  Can't we all just get along?*


----------



## DeadCanDance

jillian said:


> Where have I expressed hatred against Muslims as an entire race?
> 
> Again, you addressed not a single point about Arab treatment of Jews or Palestinian terrorism, yet engage in another rant about Israel and likening me to something you know I am nothing like and hate. Your likening Israel to Germany and me to nazis is ignorant, ill-informed, disingenuous... no... make that lying. But if it makes you feel better about yourself. Me? I think you're pretty disgusting. And you can think what you want about yourself, but the things you just said, I think you're one of the most raging jew-haters I've seen. At least WJ is up front about it.
> 
> Thanks for proving every point made about you. I'm sorry you have such hatred in you.
> 
> Leh lehizdayen




I've never seen you engage in hatred of the Islamic religion. 

  Palestinians have suffered.  Israelis have suffered.  There's enough injustice to go around.   I hope they work it out some day.


----------



## midcan5

The Politics of Anti-Semitism, edited by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair

"How did a term, once used accurately to describe the most virulent evil, become a charge flung at the mildest critic of Israel, particularly concerning its atrocious treatment of Palestinians?"

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Anti-Semitism-Alexander-Cockburn/dp/1902593774/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197589840&sr=1-1[/ame]


----------



## Shogun

DeadCanDance said:


> I've never seen you engage in hatred of the Islamic religion.
> 
> Palestinians have suffered.  Israelis have suffered.  There's enough injustice to go around.   I hope they work it out some day.



The Aryans hoped to work it out too.  Will you venture to answer the question:  Why was ethnic marginalization in Germany bad while the same process in Israel is "defense"?


How delicate should we have been with nazis when THEY were just trying to establish THEIR homeland after taking poland?

I have all the respect in the world for Jillian on most other issues.  But the inconsistency behind this issue is a real piece of work.


----------

