# ~Define An Alcoholic~



## Dabs (Jul 28, 2011)

In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
Someone who drinks every day??
Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
Just what is an alcoholic??


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## Douger (Jul 28, 2011)

I suppose a person who allows alcohol to adversely affect an otherwise normal life.
I drank a fifth yesterday but I also laid about 300 block and I'm up and ready for my  guys to come in and get the cows milked.
Stucco day today. Probably kill another fifth in the process.


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## MeBelle (Jul 28, 2011)

Only an admitted alcoholic can truly define themselves.


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## Mr. H. (Jul 28, 2011)

Nicholas Cage in "Leaving Las Vegas".


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## editec (Jul 28, 2011)

People who regularly drink alone and to excess.


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## Douger (Jul 28, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8VlcbndXdM]&#x202a;I Drink Alone&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


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## strollingbones (Jul 28, 2011)

when you let it interfere with your life....

you can be a functioning drunk......drink most of the night and get up and go into work....

or you can totally surrender to the bottle....and become a total drunk....or dry drunk.....when you have drank so much that it no longer matters to your brain

i went thru a heavy drinking period.....i was drinking a couple of 5's of vodka a day
i am one of these people who doesnt drink much but when i do....i drink to a total excess...

last time....a friend and i .....drank two fifths of patron....yea just him and me...it was not pretty....but now i will go a few years without drinking.....

drunks will die early and the booze will catch up with you.....i have watched people drink for decades then suddenly they seem to melt....their features just change and they age overnight....plus no one looks that good in yellow


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## Douger (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm a strange character in that respect. I drink when I'm on a mission......building or designing something........after the project is complete ? I lose all interest.


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## techieny (Jul 28, 2011)

Yes if alcohol interferes with your relationships, your work, or your health it's called alcoholism. Yikes, I could go for a cold one right now...


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## Grace (Jul 28, 2011)

An alcoholic kills everyone that loves him/her. It's death pretending to be your best friend. But it doesn't just kill you. It kills all those around you that love you.

I am alanon. I AM ALANON. I lost much. And it still hurts.


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## Moonglow (Jul 28, 2011)

Dabs said:


> In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> Someone who drinks every day??
> Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
> Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
> Just what is an alcoholic??



An alcoholic is a person that drinks alot of booze.


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## uscitizen (Jul 28, 2011)

Usar?


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## idb (Jul 28, 2011)

Someone that drinks more than I do.


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## whitehall (Jul 28, 2011)

Someone who was convicted of an alcohol related crime.


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## Foxfyre (Jul 28, 2011)

There are lots of people who drink too much, who drink themselves stupid drunk, who get in trouble while drinking, who create problems for themselves with their drinking. . . .who are NOT alcoholics.  Such people can learn to drink responsibly and many do.

But MOST people for whom their drinking has become a problem for themselves and/or others are alcoholics and the only sure way to recover from the worst effects is to stop drinking altogether, forever.  Alcoholism is a disease in the sense that the body changes and craves it as does the mind.   They may become alcoholic with the first drink (though that is very rare) or may have been able to drink normally and not to excess for many years before unexpectedly crossing an invisible line into alcoholism.  The line is different for each alcoholic.

At some point a tolerance starts building up so that they are able to drink more than a normal person without getting stupid drunk or passing out.  That phase lasts awhile.  And many go through that phase to a point that almost any amount of alcohol visible changes them physically and in their personality.  A kind of psychosis sets in that convinces the alocholic that he is not an alcoholic.  He (or she) finds any excuse to drink though--a bad job, difficult people, a nagging spouse, rebellious children, money problems, health problems, or the sun came up that morning.  If he can't find an excuse he'll make one up and convince himself that it is real.

At this point the alcohlic is not drinking to become high or drunk.  He is drinking to feel normal.  And the psychosis makes him so manipulative of those around him that those who are trying to cope with him, fix him, cure him, find some miracle that will make it okay, develop their own psychosis that is called in the profession 'co-dependency'.

Some begin drinking first thing in the morning.
Some start mid morning.
Some after lunch.
Some at night.
Some only on weekends.
And some on erratic patterns.
It isn't what an alcoholic drinks or how much or when or where, but how the alcohol affects him/her that makes him an alcoholic.

One in ten people who drink regularly will likely become alcoholics.



It's a terrible disease with a terrible prognosis.  But it can be arrested in its tracks and the alcoholic can live a normal, productive, happy life if he is willing to accept help to get off and stay off the sauce.  Most cannot do that without help.


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## MikeK (Jul 28, 2011)

Mr. H. said:


> Nicholas Cage in "Leaving Las Vegas".


At once a disturbing depiction of a hopeless alcoholic and a tragic love story.

Great movie.


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## MikeK (Jul 28, 2011)

I have always been virtually allergic to beverage alcohol.  

I don't like anything about it.  I don't like the smell, I can't stand the taste and every time I've tried it the effect has ranged from a bad headache to extreme nausea.  I've considered that a fortunate circumstance ever since I learned there is an identified predisposition to alcoholism.  

For those who are predisposed alcohol is the most insidiously addictive and biologically destructive drug of all.  It kills hundreds of thousands of Americans every year and makes many thousands more very sick.


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## Foxfyre (Jul 28, 2011)

MikeK said:


> I have always been virtually allergic to beverage alcohol.
> 
> I don't like anything about it.  I don't like the smell, I can't stand the taste and every time I've tried it the effect has ranged from a bad headache to extreme nausea.  I've considered that a fortunate circumstance ever since I learned there is an identified predisposition to alcoholism.
> 
> For those who are predisposed alcohol is the most insidiously addictive and biologically destructive drug of all.  It kills hundreds of thousands of Americans every year and makes many thousands more very sick.



And there does seem to be an identifiable gene for it or at least the propensity does run in families.  That 1 out of 10 people who drink will become alcoholic?  The ratio is much wider for those without addictions in the family.  But when it runs in a family, a disproportionate number of folks will have a problem and a disproportionate number of those who don't develop alcoholism themselves will be attracted to alcoholics because they are already conditioned to the dynamics of an alcoholic personality and it feels comfortable and normal to them.  If the person is not an alcoholic it may be somebody hooked on other drugs or gambling or some such.  All addictions share some common denominators but alcoholism seems to be the only one that is hereditary.


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## St.Blues (Jul 28, 2011)

Description; My brother in law....... always drunk.


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## ABikerSailor (Jul 28, 2011)

A quick way to diagnose someone as alcoholic is when they are physically and/or mentally dependent on alcohol as a way to make them feel normal.

Some who are physically addicted can end up going into convulsions if they quit.

Binge drinkers don't "feel right" unless they are celebrating (or mourning) something and they have a drink in their hand.

Basically, alcoholics drink because of something in their past that they feel pain over, and alcohol is the only anesthetic that they've found that works.

Which is why the 12 steps work so well, it gives you a framework to discover the truth about yourself and take appropriate actions to fix the problem (other than drinking).

I was a Drug and Alcohol Program Advisor for the U.S. Navy for over 8 years.


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## Ali777 (Jul 29, 2011)

ABikerSailor said:


> A quick way to diagnose someone as alcoholic is when they are physically and/or mentally dependent on alcohol as a way to make them feel normal.
> 
> Some who are physically addicted can end up going into convulsions if they quit.
> 
> ...



Oh please. The 12-Steps don't work any where near what it's hyped out to. Only about 5% of those who use it stay sober past the first year. About the same amount that do so without any treatment program what so ever. It doesn't teach you how to discover any sort of truth. All it does is get you addicted to a religion cult. If you were a Alcohol Program Advisor in the Navy, you probably lied to sailors about it not being religious  "but spritual" and forced them to attend religious activities, which didn't do them any damned good.  

They drink because of something in their past that they feel pain over?
You don't know what the hell you're talking about. We all feel pain over past events. 
Feel normal? From drinking? Are you out of your mind? Binge drinkers don't feel right unless they're celebrating? WTF are you talking about?


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 29, 2011)

Dabs said:


> In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> Someone who drinks every day??
> Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
> Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
> Just what is an alcoholic??



Forgive me for being pedantic, but it would be someone with a compulsive need for alcohol.

The reason I say this is because everyone is wired differently.  One person could go out clubbing with his friends two or three nights a week, and have some beers every evening, and not be an alcoholic because he's physically and psychologically capable of giving up alcohol if the requirement arose with no ill effects.  Another person could conceivably drink less alcohol total, and less often, but be incapable of giving it up without suffering physical or mental problems from it.

It's the need that defines it for me, not the amount.


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## Douger (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm a pussyholic.


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## Grace (Jul 29, 2011)

well, from my experiences with alcoholism, it's a gene that is dormant in the body (passed from parent(s) or ancestors) that is prodded awake once the gene is "poked" with alcohol. Which is why one drink for some people is like one hit of heroin or coke or whatever. All it takes is one time and that's all she wrote.
Ex didn't go to AA because he said sitting around listening to a bunch of sober (and sometimes not so sober) ex drunks talking about their problems with drinking and hitting their bottoms just made him wanna get up and leave and hit the nearest bar. So he did it alone. I didn't help him either. He had to do it on his own and he had to WANT to do it on his own. Took a few tries and falling off the proverbial wagon a few times but he is doing good so far. 6 years sober. Last time he only lasted 3. But it was long enough the years we were married to kill any love I had for him "in that way". We are best friends, but that's it. It died. His best friend, The Bottle, saw to that.

I have gone to plenty of meetings though. For friends and family. NA and AA both. And then I would go to my alanon so I could learn about how it affected ME and that I was not all by myself with that shit. Took years. Took my life. Took my trust. Ruined my marriage. Ended my relationships with my family. Ended my friendships. 

I think what griped my butt the most going to those meetings was the knowlege that their little cards on the table of each meeting that said "what is shared here, STAYS here"...which was a crock of shit. Bunch of gossipy old bastards and biddy hens talking to all and sundry about who fell off the wagon, who showed up stoned or drunk, who was sleeping with whom, blah blah blah. AND the topping on that proverbial bullshit cake was those who sat there all preening claiming they were 20 years sober and acting like kings of the castle. I finally had enough after witnessing this shit and my last meeting with a friend of mine at AA was me standing up in the middle of the bullshit talk and saying "if you're sober after 20 fucking years, what the fuck are you doing here????? Go live your life like you should and quite talking about everyone else here behind their backs, you bunch of hypocrites".

I don't go to alanon any more either. No need. Unless ex starts in again...which I hope like hell never happens again. It will kill both of us this next go round.


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## Douger (Jul 29, 2011)

Grace. EX is X. WTF are you doing there ?


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## Dabs (Jul 29, 2011)

My ex husband is a prime example of an alcoholic. I knew he drank when I married him, but who knows why I still went on with the marriage. He admitted he was an alcoholic years ago, and he still admits it to this day.
He is 52 years old, and has been a heavy duty drinker since he was about 16 or so. I married him when I was 22 and he was 25.
When we married, he started working at this large carpet place, 12 hour shifts, working 8 PM to 8 AM.
When he got more seniority, he went to days, working 8 AM to 8 PM.
He never missed work, always took care of his family.
But every night after work, he would walk in with a 12 pack or 18 pack of Busch beer in cans, and he would consume every single one of those beers, until he finally passed out or just got tired and went to sleep.
He still does that to this day. On days that he is not working, he drinks way more. A LOT more. His work hours are odd- he works 3 days, then 2 days off....then works 2 days, then 3 days off...it's so he has every other weekend off.
He mostly drinks beer, but often he will go for the homemade moonshine (raunchy stuff) or some Muscadine wine, he has a friend who makes that. I, and our son, think he looks yellowish. Which I know, is not a good sign, I think he needs his liver checked, and he'll tell you the same, but because he's afraid of what the doctor will say, he doesn't want to go to the doctor.
He has lost some weight, and yes he is my ex husband, and no I don't have any love feelings for him, but, he is my son's Father, and I worry for that reason mainly, but also, I don't like to see any human being suffer.
There were many nights, he would pass out on the ground, and his friends would call me, and tell me he is laying out cold. There are nights NOW, that I will go over and find him lying lifeless on the sofa, and I fear the worst as I walk over, only to find he has passed out, with a half full beer in his hand.
He will tell us he knows he is an alcoholic. But he refuses to do anything about it.
My SF (step-father) was an alcoholic too, in the younger years, but he stopped drinking as he got older. I don't see this happening with the ex. But, with the way my luck runs, the bastard will probably out-live me *ha*


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## Trajan (Jul 29, 2011)

Grace said:


> well, from my experiences with alcoholism, *it's a gene* that is dormant in the body (passed from parent(s) or ancestors) that is prodded awake once the gene is "poked" with alcohol. Which is why one drink for some people is like one hit of heroin or coke or whatever. All it takes is one time and that's all she wrote.
> Ex didn't go to AA because he said sitting around listening to a bunch of sober (and sometimes not so sober) ex drunks talking about their problems with drinking and hitting their bottoms just made him wanna get up and leave and hit the nearest bar. So he did it alone. I didn't help him either. He had to do it on his own and he had to WANT to do it on his own. Took a few tries and falling off the proverbial wagon a few times but he is doing good so far. 6 years sober. Last time he only lasted 3. But it was long enough the years we were married to kill any love I had for him "in that way". We are best friends, but that's it. It died. His best friend, The Bottle, saw to that.
> 
> I have gone to plenty of meetings though. For friends and family. NA and AA both. And then I would go to my alanon so I could learn about how it affected ME and that I was not all by myself with that shit. Took years. Took my life. Took my trust. Ruined my marriage. Ended my relationships with my family. Ended my friendships.
> ...



I think you mean "enzyme"

and in answer to the OP-

You are powerless over alcohol&#8212; your life has become unmanageable.

paraphrased from step 1.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm with the majority I think...an alcoholic is someone who's drinking causes problems and who knows it but doesn't/can't quit.

I'm not a person who thinks drinking alone is the hallmark of an alcoholic. I rarely drink any more and when I do, it's a couple of toddies late at night in my own house.


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## Sallow (Jul 29, 2011)

Anyone in Alcoholics Anonymous.

Otherwise..they are drunks.


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## Dabs (Jul 29, 2011)

Sallow said:


> Anyone in Alcoholics Anonymous.
> 
> Otherwise..they are drunks.



But if they are in AA, doesn't that mean they are trying to get help??
And it could quite possibly mean, they can quit drinking, if they haven't already.
I knew of a man who went to AA for 10 years after he quit drinking, just to keep himself on the right road as he called it 
A drunk is someone who just doesn't give a shit, who they hurt, themselves or others...no regards for anything else. Their drinking is the number one thing in their life.
I think if someone is going to AA, they might be considered an alcoholic at one time, but if they can totally quit, I think it can then be said they were ONCE an alcoholic, but not one anymore.


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## Two Thumbs (Jul 29, 2011)

If you need it.  No matter how rare you may drink, if there is any need, you are an alcoholic.


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## peach174 (Jul 29, 2011)

to me an alcoholic is someone who is obsessed with alcohol and cannot control how much they consume.
It is that way with all addictions.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 29, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone in Alcoholics Anonymous.
> ...



AA itself says there's no such thing as a "former alcoholic", only a "recovering alcoholic".


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2011)

Any alcoholic in recovery will tell you, they are ALWAYS an alcoholic. 

And no alcoholic wants to be an alcoholic. Yet at the same time, they are the only ones who can affect a *cure*.

I certainly spent a lot of time drinking, hard, when I was younger. But you know there came a point when it just wasn't fun anymore, and when that happened, I quit. So now I wonder, was I  an alcoholic, or was I just in a stage where I made it a part of my life? I mean, if you're an alcoholic, you're one forever, right? I spent 20 years of my life thinking the most fun thing in the world was to go to parties,  hit the bars, etc...and consume copious amounts of liquor...I do mean copious.

I have no desire to pick up that lifestyle again, and I'm not concerned about it at all. I don't want to drink at all for the most part...when I do, I have a couple and I'm done. I'm not interested in going to bars, I don't want to go to parties...not because they're uncomfortable for me but because that's just not fun anymore, I have other things to do. Now I view them as a waste of time..there was a time when they were a goal!

So who the hell knows. I don't miss it, think I was silly to ever think it was fun, but I feel that way about a lot of the pursuits of my younger days.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 29, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> Any alcoholic in recovery will tell you, they are ALWAYS an alcoholic.
> 
> And no alcoholic wants to be an alcoholic. Yet at the same time, they are the only ones who can affect a *cure*.
> 
> ...



I'd say if you just gave it up without any ill effects or ever missing it, you weren't an alcoholic.  You were just a dumb kid.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2011)

Until I was 42!


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## PixieStix (Jul 29, 2011)

Alcoholism is sad and destructive to all involved. Many times the alcoholic cannot remember the wrongs he/she did to others. Maybe they never will. 

Acknowledgment of wronging others is key to becoming and staying sober. Maybe I am wrong. I only know because my brother is a recovering alcoholic.

I have to wonder if there are differing reasons for becoming an alcoholic. My brother is one from years of going to lunch and dinner with other executives, or having corporate meetings over drinks. Later in his life everything was about getting drunk...till he lost a 23 year old wife who took him to the cleaners. She was a binge drinker. That woke him up. Has not had a drink in quite a few years.

Then you have those who simply cannot cope with the past ect....or have personality traits that makes them vunerable. I think those are the ones who have a tougher time getting and staying sober. JMHO


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 29, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> Until I was 42!



My sister is approaching 50, and she's STILL a dumb kid.  Some people take a lot longer to grow up.


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## Grace (Jul 29, 2011)

Douger said:


> Grace. EX is X. WTF are you doing there ?


He is sober. He is my best friend. I'll be here with him til the end of either of us. Unless he picks his other best friend (the bottle) over me again. Then I'm outta here. And he knows it.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 29, 2011)

mE.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 29, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


> If you need it.  No matter how rare you may drink, if there is any need, you are an alcoholic.



What do you mean?


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## toxicmedia (Jul 29, 2011)

Alchoholics are the same as addicts. If a substance other than food and water is negatively affecting your relationships and life, and you lack the mental mechanism to quit doing these substances, you need to get at the reason why you abuse these subtances. Thus NA and AA.


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## Grace (Jul 29, 2011)

I think he meant as a crutch, HG.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 29, 2011)

To me an alcoholic is someone who needs a drink when they first wake up.


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## Grace (Jul 29, 2011)

For those who are not sure what an alcoholic is...go to an AA meeting. They don't ask questions. They don't expect strangers there to "share". They just move around the table and everyone has their say..however long it may be. Or they don't say anything except "pass". And listen. Watch. Digest. You can pick out the ones still struggling and the ones that have done well....and the ones that never were alcoholics but NEED the label so they feel they belong somewhere (munchausen by proxy).


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## High_Gravity (Jul 29, 2011)

Grace said:


> For those who are not sure what an alcoholic is...go to an AA meeting. They don't ask questions. They don't expect strangers there to "share". They just move around the table and everyone has their say..however long it may be. Or they don't say anything except "pass". And listen. Watch. Digest. You can pick out the ones still struggling and the ones that have done well....and the ones that never were alcoholics but NEED the label so they feel they belong somewhere (munchausen by proxy).



I went to the Militaries version of AA and it was completely different, you are forced to share, answer questions and tell everyone every week why you went in, and if you refused you faced disciplinary action. Makes you want a drink afterwards.


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## Jos (Jul 29, 2011)

An alcoholic is someone who doesn't use prescription drugs to deal with their Life's trauma's


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## signelect (Jul 29, 2011)

alcoholism can only be diagnosed by the person with the disease.  Many people need help but only a few want it.  There is only one method that has worked over time because alcoholism can not be cured but it can be controlled so you can recover and live a happy and productive life.


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## Dabs (Jul 29, 2011)

Well, I have seen what alcohol can do to a person. And we all can agree I'm sure, it's not pretty.
I never did drink. Which was weird because I was raised around alcohol...both my real Dad and my SF drank. But I never liked the taste of beer, so it's not something I let myself get involved in. And cigarettes, never smoked either.
But alcohol is out there, everydamnwhere, so if a person wants to drink, they're gonna find a way to drink :-/


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## Foxfyre (Jul 29, 2011)

Many alcoholics share similar patterns of drinking and behavior but not all.  Again some do start drinking at wake up; others wait until the end of the work day; others can go days or weeks in between 'binges'.  Some drink only beer; some only wine; some only vodka; some anything alcoholic they can get their hands on.  There is no rule of how it has to work.

I'm sorry Grace had such a terrible experience with Al Anon but she was obviously in a group that didn't ever get the program.  Millions have reclaimed their lives and dispelled the demons that plagued them in Al-Anon groups as have millions reclaimed their lives through AA or similar programs.  People being so different, it is impossible for the same system/program will be effective for everybody, whether the addict or the co-dependent.

I had one friend who went through detox and a 30-day in house treatment program seven times before he finally got the program and got sober.  Now he is one of AA's strongest advocates, but he is walking proof that falling off the wagon doesn't doom you.


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## Stashman (Jul 29, 2011)

You are an alcoholic if you cannot stop drinking without help.


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## signelect (Jul 29, 2011)

An alcoholic is a person who doesn't know the meaning of self control. They say it's the first drink that gets you in trouble not the second, third or fourth but i don't think that's true. Self control is a big part of life that us human beings need to learn.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 29, 2011)

Alcoholics have some of the most incredible self control you'll ever see. They go to extremes to arrange their lives around their addiction....


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## The_GiantNoodle (Jul 29, 2011)

whitehall said:


> Someone who was convicted of an alcohol related crime.


 

Nope. Someone can be out at a company party, have a few beers and get pulled over and slapped with a DUI. That doesnt make them an alcoholic.


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## Big Black Dog (Jul 29, 2011)

If alcohol consumption causes any problem in your life, and you are not able to stop drinking to avoid that problem, most likely you are an alcoholic.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 30, 2011)

If alcohol causes problems in your life on a regular basis, you are probably an alcoholic.  Like what Big Black Dog said.

Someone who is not an alcoholic would not keep drinking every night when it causes them to wake up with a terrible hangover every morning.

Someone who is not an alcoholic might drink to the point that they don't remember what they did the night before a couple of times.  But they wouldn't keep doing it.

An alcoholic lets alcohol become the most important thing in their life.  That next drink is the center of the universe.

One thing I get tired of hearing about is rehab.  I am an alcoholic.  One time I went through a 12-week outpatient treatment program (either that or lose my job).  I started drinking again before the program was even over.  But all you had to do was confess and act all contrite and you'd get away with it.

When I finally quit, I quit on my own, with the support of my husband who quit drinking before I did.  I didn't go to rehab, I didn't go to AA meetings, I just quit.  Sometimes when I tell people this they say, well, you must not be an alcoholic.  But, I'll tell you what, at that treatment program I went through I tried to say I might not be an alcholic.  One of the counselors looked me in the eyes and said, based on everything you've told us about your habits and behavior, you are most definitely an alcoholic. 

And that's another thing about an alcoholic.  I  haven't had a drink in 10 years.  But if I were to have one, the odds are that I would start drinking again on a regular basis.  A couple drinks would become several, and one or two nights a week would become every night.  Alcoholism is a progressive disease, it just keeps getting worse.  Alcoholics cannot drink in moderation, no matter how they try.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 30, 2011)

signelect said:


> An alcoholic is a person who doesn't know the meaning of self control. They say it's the first drink that gets you in trouble not the second, third or fourth but i don't think that's true. Self control is a big part of life that us human beings need to learn.



It's not about self control.  It's EASY for a nonalcoholic to stop at one or two drinks.  It doesn't take a lot of self control.  Because they're not  ADDICTED to alcohol.

That's another sign of an alcoholic...if you have to struggle to keep from drinking too much, you're probably an alcoholic.  Nonalcoholics can take it or leave it.  No big self-control needed.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 30, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> Any alcoholic in recovery will tell you, they are ALWAYS an alcoholic.
> 
> And no alcoholic wants to be an alcoholic. Yet at the same time, they are the only ones who can affect a *cure*.
> 
> ...




You are not an alcoholic.


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## editec (Jul 30, 2011)

I think its fair to suggest that there are different kinds of alcoholism and those different kinds addiction tend to also manifest in different patterns of drinking to excess.


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## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2011)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> signelect said:
> 
> 
> > An alcoholic is a person who doesn't know the meaning of self control. They say it's the first drink that gets you in trouble not the second, third or fourth but i don't think that's true. Self control is a big part of life that us human beings need to learn.
> ...



It is a fact that many who start AA drop out.  In fact most.  Statistically the success rate of in house or outpatients treatment programs is pretty grim.  As you illustrated, the alcoholic manages drinking through a clever web of deception, lies, manipulation, and pretense--whatever it takes to give him/her access and ability to alcohol.  And yes, the alcoholic will have one drink or a half drink just to PROVE to others (or sometimes himself) that he is okay; he doesn't have  problem; he can stop anytime he wants to.  But he is already planning how he will get his next drink.   He thinks about that next drink a lot even when he is not drinking.  He arranges his life to make that next drink more accessible

Alcoholics are just like other people.  Most are above normal in intelligence, sociable, personable, funny.  Many never get a DUI or lose a job or a relationship because of their drinking.  Or apparently because of their drinking.  But they will drive drunk.  Their work will suffer.  Their relationships become as sick as their addiction because their loved ones will try to manage the alcoholic's addiction just as the alcoholic does.

The one thing that sets alcoholics apart from non alcoholics is that alcoholics are addicted.  And like all addicts, the addiction becomes the number one most important thing in their life.   Getting clean and sober does not cure the addiction.  But it does remove it from priority.

Millions who do not get clean and sober from rehab/treatment or their first AA meetings, etc. do go on to get clean and sober later.  The main advantage of rehab or AA or similar programs is that once the addict has been through them, they are much less able to lie to themselves about their addictions.  Their addiciton will never again be as much 'fun'.  And then you hear many success stories of people who eventually just quit on their own.  But in truth, there is almost always a lot of history in that quitting.


----------



## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.

In Northern Europe heavy drinking is an ancient tradition, and beer is generally stronger than its American counterpart. Without boasting, it takes about ten cans of 5% lager to get me totally spasticated. 

In a typically male, Anglo-Saxon environment, it's not unusual to see copious amounts of alcohol consumed. Take, for instance, when me and my men are working out of town. We finish for the week in our temporary digs, get washed and fed, then we'll head-out to a few pubs. We'll usually return to the digs with 50+ cans of strong beer, some cannabis and (on occasion) some cocaine. We then plot down and get violently drunk whilst bragging and talking bullshit over a game of cards.

However, I know for a fact that neither myself or anyone I employ is an alcoholic, functioning or otherwise. Seriously, I remember watching an episode of that ghastly Gerry Springer show where some woman was publically accused by a friend of child neglect because she'd have a bottle of beer followed by 3 or 4 shots. Do me a bleedin' favour! It's all about perspective. Honestly, you should see what goes on in some of the digs occupied by Russian contractors I've worked with. By the sounds of it, it would make the hairs on your comparatively lily-livered American backs stand on end.

Anyway, my answer.

A dependent alcoholic, in my opinion, thinks about where their first drink of the day will come from upon waking.And no, I don't speak from experience.


----------



## Grace (Jul 30, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Many alcoholics share similar patterns of drinking and behavior but not all.  Again some do start drinking at wake up; others wait until the end of the work day; others can go days or weeks in between 'binges'.  Some drink only beer; some only wine; some only vodka; some anything alcoholic they can get their hands on.  There is no rule of how it has to work.
> 
> I'm sorry Grace had such a terrible experience with Al Anon but she was obviously in a group that didn't ever get the program.  Millions have reclaimed their lives and dispelled the demons that plagued them in Al-Anon groups as have millions reclaimed their lives through AA or similar programs.  People being so different, it is impossible for the same system/program will be effective for everybody, whether the addict or the co-dependent.
> 
> I had one friend who went through detox and a 30-day in house treatment program seven times before he finally got the program and got sober.  Now he is one of AA's strongest advocates, but he is walking proof that falling off the wagon doesn't doom you.



It wasn't alanon that was full of gossipy old hens and assholes. it was AA and NA!!!


----------



## Mad Scientist (Jul 30, 2011)

Dabs said:


> In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> Someone who drinks every day??
> Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
> Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
> Just what is an alcoholic??


When the alcohol affects a persons job, relationships and/or health. If he/she can't keep a job or can't get along with others as a result of his or her drinking, then they could be considered alcoholics.


----------



## RadiomanATL (Jul 30, 2011)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/roomy.html


----------



## ABikerSailor (Jul 30, 2011)

Ali777 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > A quick way to diagnose someone as alcoholic is when they are physically and/or mentally dependent on alcohol as a way to make them feel normal.
> ...



Tell ya what you sperm burping brick with feet, when you've actually MET me, and have actually TALKED to me, THEN you can call me a liar.

As far as the other stuff?  Well, I've got 8 years experience in the field, and also did time as a volunteer counselor in both Newport RI as well as Fall River MA at local detox centers.

What have YOU done?


----------



## Grace (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm trying very hard to visualize what a sperm burping brick with feet would look like. Do bricks have open orifices?


----------



## California Girl (Jul 30, 2011)

Dabs said:


> In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> Someone who drinks every day??
> Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
> Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
> Just what is an alcoholic??



In your eyes? What the hell difference does that make? It's a medically defined illness... what any individual thinks is of no relevance. 

You ask really stupid questions sometimes.


----------



## strollingbones (Jul 30, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > I have always been virtually allergic to beverage alcohol.
> ...




i think it is....my grandfather like to drink...my father loved to drink....and i can be a hard drinker....but then i think....what an old friend told me addiction was....

"are you using the drug or is the drug using you"

i have now learned to order one heavy drink and quit....but of course no one at the table realizes what i am ordering....i have learned to pass well....as a social drinker....cause i had to at one time...it amuses me to watch people now....i know the game...i know the code words...i know i dont wanna be there....one think i am thankful for...my son was too young to realize how much i was drinking.....i am so thankful for that..that today he doesnt remember his mother as a drunk


----------



## strollingbones (Jul 30, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> Alcoholics have some of the most incredible self control you'll ever see. They go to extremes to arrange their lives around their addiction....




and sometimes ....in spite of yourself....allie you just nailed it.......so totally nailed it


----------



## Grace (Jul 30, 2011)

When i start looking for a new roomie again, I plan to word it very bluntly. "No drugs, no drug use and then coming in my home, no sneaking booze, no games.Been there, done that, know every trick in the book so don't think you can get away with it".


----------



## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> > In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> ...



Why do you insist on being so unnecessarily scathing all the time?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2011)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Any alcoholic in recovery will tell you, they are ALWAYS an alcoholic.
> ...


 


I think probably technically, I could be considered one....but since it's not a problem any longer, I don't spend much time worrying about it.

And I don't have the craving that alcoholics claim never goes away. Now I craved it when I was in party mode, but not any more. 

I'm a fucking human oddity, that's all there is to it.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2011)

ABikerSailor said:


> Ali777 said:
> 
> 
> > ABikerSailor said:
> ...


 
Who cares, he still wins. You're a loser.


----------



## California Girl (Jul 30, 2011)

Blagger said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Dabs said:
> ...



I have a lot tolerance for stupid. Idiot.


----------



## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> > California Girl said:
> ...



A lot _of_ tolerance, surely, dickhead?


----------



## Sunshine (Jul 30, 2011)

Blagger said:


> Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.
> 
> In Northern Europe heavy drinking is an ancient tradition, and beer is generally stronger than its American counterpart. Without boasting, it takes about ten cans of 5% lager to get me totally spasticated.
> 
> ...



When alcohol has become the primary relationship in the person's life, he is an alcoholic.


----------



## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

Sunshine said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> > Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.
> ...



Alcohol's just my mistress, then.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 30, 2011)

Sunshine said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> > Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.
> ...



But he is an alcoholic even before that.  I believe we are born alcoholics.  The disease is just dormant until we drink.  Then when we start drinking it becomes progressively worse and worse.


----------



## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



Actually, there may be some people for whom the craving never stops, but i think that must be very rare.  Most alcoholics who get clean and sober do lose their craving snd no longer miss it.  Every now and then they will miss that cold beer or the glass of wine at dinner, but they don't obsess about it.  It is like a long reformed smoker who has long broken the addiction.  Every once in awhile a stiuation comes up that you think how great it would be to pull out a cig and calm yourself with it or just enjoy it--you remember those thimes.  But you don't obsess about it and that momentary temptation quickly passes.

Temptation and craving are two separate things.

Most alcoholics who get the program work the program even after they stop going to AA meetings or whatever.  It is a great way to live, to deal with problems, to solve problems that used to be settled with alcohol.  Those who stay in it for years and years do so long after they've lost all desire to drink.  They help themselves by helping others and I think God reserves a special wonderful place in heaven for them.

To Grace, a bad AA group doesn't get the program any more than a bad Al-anon group gets the program. Both can be more destructive than helpful and I encourage any who lok to such groups for help locate one that is doing the job.  Sobriety doesn't make smart people out of idiots nor saints out of ass holes, but it is well worth obtaining for the Alcoholic or Al-anon.


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## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2011)

Who knows, it hurts my head to try to figure it out. I tend to think if you can't have a drink when you want one for fear of what you'll do, you're probably an alcoholic. If you drink enough that someone in your life is asking you, "have you been drinking?" on a regular basis, and you have arguments based upon it, you're probably an alcoholic.

As for the rest, who knows. I think I drank too much and probably could have qualified as an alcholic...except I pretty much quit. Not cold turkey, kind of slowly over time, it just became less and less a part of what I do. And I still have a drink once in a while, and it's not a problem at all.

I guess it doesn't matter! At least not for me...


----------



## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 30, 2011)

Blagger said:


> Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.
> 
> In Northern Europe heavy drinking is an ancient tradition, and beer is generally stronger than its American counterpart. Without boasting, it takes about ten cans of 5% lager to get me totally spasticated.
> 
> ...



Rationalization.  That's called rationalization.

I'm NOT accusing you of being an alcoholic, that's not where I'm coming from.  But as an alcoholic, I used to think those kind of thoughts all the time....

Everybody is stopping for drinks after work (every night), it's not just me.

Everybody gets good and drunk on Friday and Saturday nights, it's not just me.

Everybody wants to drink beer at picnics, not just me!  It's just not a picnic without beer!

Everybody I know has had a DWI, it's not just me!

Etc.  You see people around you drinking, and think it's just a social norm, and there's nothing wrong with you.  Until one day you realize you're worse than eveyone else.


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## Si modo (Jul 30, 2011)

I miss JWFrogen.


----------



## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> Who knows, it hurts my head to try to figure it out. I tend to think if you can't have a drink when you want one for fear of what you'll do, you're probably an alcoholic. If you drink enough that someone in your life is asking you, "have you been drinking?" on a regular basis, and you have arguments based upon it, you're probably an alcoholic.
> 
> As for the rest, who knows. I think I drank too much and probably could have qualified as an alcholic...except I pretty much quit. Not cold turkey, kind of slowly over time, it just became less and less a part of what I do. And I still have a drink once in a while, and it's not a problem at all.
> 
> I guess it doesn't matter! At least not for me...



Most people who think they were alcoholic probably are or are what I dub 'pre-alcoholic' which is the stage before the invisible line.  The invisible line is the point in which the person will begin spiraling out of control and will start to try to  'manage' their drinking without success.   I was at the pre-alcoholic stage when I stopped.  It is rampant in my family and I knew I was dangerously close to the invisible line at the time I stopped.  If I started drinking again, I suspect I would cross the line very quickly; maybe immediately.  It is a progressive disease whether one is still drinking or not but the hold it has on us can be broken.  An alcoholic never stops being an alcoholic--there is no cure.  But the addiction can be broken and the alcoholic can lead a productive happy life free from the addiction.

That's why the savvy alcholic never claims to be cured, but will say he or she is recovering.  Recovery becomes the new way of life.   The earlier into progression of the disease that it is arrested, the easier it is to arrest and the less physical, moral, social, mental, and spiritual damage will be done.  But recovery can begin at virtually any phase.


----------



## del (Jul 30, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> > In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> ...



and you give really stupid answers sometimes


----------



## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 30, 2011)

Another thing...about missing a cold beer or glass of wine once in a while...

Now that I have my alcoholism under control, and have replaced the booze in my life with many other interests and activities (which is what you have to do), I realize that the last beverage I would choose is a beer or glass of wine.

I wasn't drinking for the taste!  I was drinking for the buzz.  Give me a Coke or some nice cold water any day.

It's like that nonalcoholic beer.  When I was actively drinking, I thought that was the greatest thing and would be a way for me to get my drinking under control.

Not.  I couldn't stand drinking those nonalcoholic beers...the lack of an associated "buzz" was a huge disappointment.  That's when I realized it wasn't really the taste of the beer I loved so much.

I think a beer would gag me now.  Yet I used to easily put away 6-12 of them a day.  Or more.


----------



## del (Jul 30, 2011)

if you think you have to control it, it's controlling you.


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## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

All joking aside, I reckon I could drink every single one of you under the table. But you'd all probably wuss-out after you saw the size of my glass.

Kooshdakhaa, I know where you're coming from. I used to drink heavily when I was in the army, along with everyone else. I'd say I get drunk, on average, about once or twice a fortnight. You see, my wife's one of you lot and her frowns come as a welcome catalyst to an otherwise potentially negligent attitude towards alcohol. I guess heavy drinking is just one of those traditions that didn't survive the journey to the New World. Unless you're Irish-American, that is.


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## del (Jul 30, 2011)

RadiomanATL said:


> http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/roomy.html



http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/del.html


----------



## del (Jul 30, 2011)

Blagger said:


> All joking aside, I reckon I could drink every single one of you under the table. But you'd all probably wuss-out after you saw the size of my glass.
> 
> Kooshdakhaa, I know where you're coming from. I used to drink heavily when I was in the army, along with everyone else. I'd say I get drunk, on average, about once or twice a fortnight. You see, my wife's one of you lot and her frowns come as a welcome catalyst to an otherwise potentially negligent attitude towards alcohol. I guess heavy drinking is just one of those traditions that didn't survive the journey to the New World. Unless you're Irish-American, that is.



i spilled more than you've drunk.


----------



## Sunshine (Jul 30, 2011)

California Girl said:


> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> > In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> ...



Actually you are correct.  There are several Alcohol Use Disorders in the DSM-IV-TR.  None of them use the nomenclature 'Alcoholic or Alchoholism.'  But they are medical disorders considered serious and treatable. I think the disease model has become fairly well accepted.


----------



## RadiomanATL (Jul 30, 2011)

del said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/roomy.html
> ...



http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/jw-frogen.html


----------



## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

del said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/roomy.html
> ...



Don't be so bashful, Derek. You know we all prefer this one:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/del.html


----------



## del (Jul 30, 2011)

prolly would have been funny if your link worked, poofter.


----------



## Foxfyre (Jul 30, 2011)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Another thing...about missing a cold beer or glass of wine once in a while...
> 
> Now that I have my alcoholism under control, and have replaced the booze in my life with many other interests and activities (which is what you have to do), I realize that the last beverage I would choose is a beer or glass of wine.
> 
> ...



Actually I love the taste of beer.  And if out having dinner with friends who are enjoying a beer or wine with their bar-b-que or steak, I will order and enjoy an O'douls.  Okay compared to a real beer, it isn't as good but it's good enough.   I don't buy them to keep at home though.  Don't want to return to the old patterns and rituals.  Most often like you I am happier with a cola or lemonade or iced tea or water or an exotic coffee or whatever.

The toughest thing for many breaking the addiction is to stay away from old haunts where drinking was the norm and giving up old drinking buddies who are not going to be happy or supportive that the alcoholic is working on quitting.  Friends will be supportive and sometimes will be what get the alcoholic through the difficult process of breaking the addiction.


----------



## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

del said:


> prolly would have been funny if your link worked, poofter.



Try again, deldo.


----------



## del (Jul 30, 2011)

Blagger said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > prolly would have been funny if your link worked, poofter.
> ...



you only get one bite at the apple, pommy.


----------



## Swagger (Jul 30, 2011)

Who d'ya think you're fooling, Derek? We all know you took another look. You'd be a fag otherwise.


----------



## Si modo (Jul 30, 2011)

del said:


> if you think you have to control it, it's controlling you.


That about sums it up.  Trajan posted the first step earlier and that nails it as well:  Admitted that you are powerless over alcohol and that your life had become unmanageable.

I'd also say if it gives someone the willies to think about giving up ever having a drink again, it's probably a problem for them.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 30, 2011)

Si modo said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > if you think you have to control it, it's controlling you.
> ...



I'm really glad I as able to quit without AA and the 12-step program.  I didn't hav to admit I was powerless and turn myself over to a higher power.  I just got sick of wrecking my life, so I quit.  My husband was my support, because he had already quit a few years before...without AA.  My husband believes they trade addiction to alcohol for addiction to AA.  He wants none of it.  

One summer a couple of  years ago, though, my husband was going on a trip.  I had a thought in the back of my mind that I might get the idea to have a few drinks while he was gone!  I scoped out the nearest AA meetings and was prepared to go there as  last resort if I found myself wanting to drink.

But hallelujah!  Once he had left I didn't want to drink!  I simply didn't want to!!!!  I never felt so free in all my life!


----------



## IndependntLogic (Jul 30, 2011)

Dabs said:


> In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> Someone who drinks every day??
> Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
> Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
> Just what is an alcoholic??



Someone who asks themselves whether or not they might be an alcoholic. It wouldn't even occur to anyone else.


----------



## waltky (Jul 30, 2011)

Someone who can't go for more than 24 hours...

... (many often even less)...

... without their 'liquid fix'.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 30, 2011)

Naw, I know too many people who don't drink every 24 hours, but who when they do drink completely lose all control.


----------



## Dabs (Jul 30, 2011)

IndependntLogic said:


> Someone who asks themselves whether or not they might be an alcoholic. It wouldn't even occur to anyone else.




I believe we can witness someone destroying themselves, and know their drinking is doing them harm, and also tell when they have become an "alcoholic"......especially if a person is living with said someone for over 10 years and sees the drinking on a daily basis.
I honestly think others can tell when someone is an alcoholic.
I knew my ex was/is one.....he admits it NOW, but years ago when I would say to him "I think you need help"...he would nudge me off. Now he tells me he wishes he had maybe listened.


----------



## freedombecki (Jul 31, 2011)

Don't take them too seriously, but here are some indications that you just might have a drinking problem...

  20. You have awakened with an overwhelming feeling that you should go back and apologize... but you don't remember where.
  19. The Tipsy Taxi service has banned you from all its vehicles.
  18. You refer to your favorite song only by its jukebox selection numbers, G-12.
  17. People consider your spouse a Saint for reasons that totally escape you.
  16. Your least favorite song: "Goodnight, Sweetheart."
  15. The last time you had a legal driver's license, so did Ted Kennedy.
  14. You bought your current pick-up truck because it has a cool place to hide a six pack.
  13. Your last public sing-along experience included the entire Changes in Latitudes album.
  12. "But Officer, it's been a long time since I tried to say my ABC's!"
  11. You have considered starting a local chapter of D. A. M. M., Drunks Against Mad Mothers.
  10. All of your old friends are now members of 12-step groups.
  9. The 911 dispatcher no longer has to ask your wife for the address.
  8. You think the nutritional information on the back of a beer can is proof that you should be able to buy it with food stamps.
  7. The only hymn to which you remember all the words was written by Hank Williams, Sr.
  6. You consider a real alcoholic as one who drinks more than you do.
  5. You know for certain that putting your foot on the floor does not stop the room from spinning.
  4.Your insurance agent drops by and mentions your policy does cover treatment centers.
  3. You know the punch line to "Why does an Al-Anoner close her eyes to make love?"
  2. The producers of the television program COPS still send you Christmas cards.
  And the Number One way you can tell if you have a drinking problem...
  1. Two words: Commode Huggin'.


----------



## del (Jul 31, 2011)

This test will only be scored correctly if you answer each one of the questions. Please also check our disclaimer on psychological testing and our psychological testing privacy guarantee.

1. Have you ever felt you should cut down on your drinking?

    * Yes
    * No

2. Have people annoyed you by criticising your drinking?

    * Yes
    * No

3. Have you ever felt bad or guilty about your drinking?

    * Yes
    * No

4. Have you ever had a drink first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover (eye-opener)?

    * Yes
    * No 

two or more yes answers and you probably are an alcoholic

http://counsellingresource.com/lib/quizzes/drug-testing/alcohol-cage/


----------



## Kooshdakhaa (Jul 31, 2011)

Just remember...someone doesn't "become" an alcoholic.  They already are.  Even if they never take a drink in their life.

When you think you see someone "becoming" an alcoholic, it just means the disease is progressing.  

Sometimes when people are young, like college students, everybody is partying and an alcoholic doesn't really stand out from the crowd.

But as time goes on and the disease progresses, it eventually becomes obvious that the person is an alcoholic.  To those around them, anyway.  They may be totally immersed in denial, which is part of the disease.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Aug 1, 2011)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Just remember...someone doesn't "become" an alcoholic.  They already are.  Even if they never take a drink in their life.
> 
> When you think you see someone "becoming" an alcoholic, it just means the disease is progressing.
> 
> ...



Wrong.  People CAN become alcoholics by excessive binge drinking.

The body has a certain enzyme that assists in the breakdown of alcohol.  If a person drinks too much and reduces that enzyme to a certain point, they cease being able to process alcohol normally and then become alcoholic.

One of the reasons that many say "one's too many, and a thousand ain't enough".  The lack of that enzyme is what sets up the craving.


----------



## Foxfyre (Aug 1, 2011)

ABikerSailor said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > Just remember...someone doesn't "become" an alcoholic.  They already are.  Even if they never take a drink in their life.
> ...



It doesn't even require binge drinking.  Again many people drink normally and responsibly for years before crossing that invisible line into alcoholism.  At that point the next drink begins to assume importance instead of being an incidental thing.  And the intake will begin to increase.

Admittedly those with the gene or propensity for alcoholism can speed up the process and get across that line more quickly with higher than average intake.


----------



## Ali777 (Aug 1, 2011)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Just remember...someone doesn't "become" an alcoholic.  They already are.  Even if they never take a drink in their life.
> 
> When you think you see someone "becoming" an alcoholic, it just means the disease is progressing.
> 
> ...



It's a matter of dispute among the medical community whether it's actually a disease.
ANYBODY..that drinks in excess will become an alcoholic. Alcohol is addictive.


----------



## Foxfyre (Aug 1, 2011)

Ali777 said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > Just remember...someone doesn't "become" an alcoholic.  They already are.  Even if they never take a drink in their life.
> ...



I don't think that will hold up.  Many people drink to excess and never become alcoholic.  And that is why I think it is a disease--a genetic or physiological deficiency in which even people who do not drink to excess can become alcoholic.  It's just like most people can gamble responsibly with no problem and shrug and walk away when the money they have allocated for the activity is gone.  Some people are predisposed to gambling addiction, however, and they can't do that.  Gambling becomes a compulsive obsessive behavior over which they have little or no control.


----------



## High_Gravity (Aug 1, 2011)

Grace said:


> When i start looking for a new roomie again, I plan to word it very bluntly. "No drugs, no drug use and then coming in my home, no sneaking booze, no games.Been there, done that, know every trick in the book so don't think you can get away with it".



You don't want your room mates to drink? guess that counts me out.


----------



## High_Gravity (Aug 1, 2011)

When I was in AA counseling in the Military I was told the person who drinks and gets into trouble whether it be a domestic incident, DUI, public intoxication etc under the influence is a alcoholic, doesn't matter if they drink everyday or just once a week. They told me someone who drinks everyday but doesn't get into trouble is not an alcoholic, I think thats bullshit.


----------



## Ali777 (Aug 1, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Ali777 said:
> 
> 
> > Kooshdakhaa said:
> ...



That's ridiculous. Alcohol is an addictive drug. It's actually a toxin. Drinking in excess causes your body to adapt to it. The more a person drinks the more dependent their bodies become on the drug, as it adapts. Compulsive behavior and addiction are two completely different things. That's why I believe they have what's called a dual-diagnosis, of addictive disorder and other mental health illnesses. But, I'm admittedly not a doctor. So I could be wrong. Don't think so though.


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## Ali777 (Aug 1, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> > signelect said:
> ...



AA is a fucking cult.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

Dabs said:


> In your eyes only, your opinion, what do you consider an alcoholic??
> Someone who drinks every day??
> Someone who drinks more than twice a week?? Someone who when they first wake up, they grab a beer??
> Or is an alcoholic someone who maybe only drinks a couple of times per week, but they get so wasted, they pass out, forget where they are, miss work and end up sick for 2 days??
> Just what is an alcoholic??



Anyone who has to ask.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

Douger said:


> I'm a strange character in that respect. I drink when I'm on a mission......building or designing something........after the project is complete ? I lose all interest.



For now...


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

Ali777 said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> > A quick way to diagnose someone as alcoholic is when they are physically and/or mentally dependent on alcohol as a way to make them feel normal.
> ...



I have to agree. Having been married to a BAD alcoholic (no, it didn't start out that way), AA to him was a joke (as it was to two of his still surviving friends who quit on their own when they'd had enough). The reason is that in order to be motivated to stop drinking, a person has to stop hanging around with people who drink or USED TO DRINK, because that's all they want to talk about it and it keeps the "subject" front/center. When someone isn't exposed to talking about drinking or not drinking all the time, establishes new normal friendships and realizes that alcohol isn't the be-all and end-all of every day, the memory eventually begins to fade and s/he starts to truly recover.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> I'm with the majority I think...an alcoholic is someone who's drinking causes problems and who knows it but doesn't/can't quit.
> 
> I'm not a person who thinks drinking alone is the hallmark of an alcoholic. I rarely drink any more and when I do, it's a couple of toddies late at night in my own house.



Same here, but my ritual is that cocktail before dinner. It's more a ritual than a requirement.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone in Alcoholics Anonymous.
> ...



You need to do much more research on alcoholism, because all of your questions can be answered. It's a progressive disease, and even if one has quit for 20 years, one drink can drag that person back to the emotional and physical dependency he/she was at the time he put down that last drink 20 years ago. 

You're right in that when alcoholism reaches the point where it is in complete control, an alcholic *doesn't* give a shit...about you, his children, his job, his finances. The only thing that matters is having enough left in the bottle to get him past the shakes in the morning and then deal with how he'll find enough to get through the rest of the day. And the cycle continues 24/7.

You're foolish to remain with this man. He knows he's got a good thing going because YOU solve all those problems for him. 

Sign me, voice of experience.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

signelect said:


> An alcoholic is a person who doesn't know the meaning of self control. They say it's the first drink that gets you in trouble not the second, third or fourth but i don't think that's true. Self control is a big part of life that us human beings need to learn.



Eventually, it has nothing to do with self control. Eventually it gets out of control, period.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

Grace said:


> I'm trying very hard to visualize what a sperm burping brick with feet would look like. Do bricks have open orifices?



I envisioned Son of Spongebob.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> > Let's add a pinch of perspective, eh.
> ...



And my favorite: "I can stop anytime I want."


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

Si modo said:


> I miss JWFrogen.



Yeah, his avi always made me want a beer. And I don't like beer.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

del said:


> Blagger said:
> 
> 
> > All joking aside, I reckon I could drink every single one of you under the table. But you'd all probably wuss-out after you saw the size of my glass.
> ...



My husband used to get irritated when he'd hear people making a big deal about something going up in price by a buck or so, and he was apt to say "I _spill_ more in a night than that costs." (He could be funny.) Thanks for the reminder.


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## MaggieMae (Aug 1, 2011)

RadiomanATL said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > RadiomanATL said:
> ...



He used to have one of some guy sitting at a bar with a cold frosty one. Maybe_ that_ was him; certainly wasn't Paul Newman!


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## California Girl (Aug 1, 2011)

Blagger said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> > Blagger said:
> ...



Actually it was 'low'.

Idiot.


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