# What do you think happens after we die?



## Michelle420

Do you have a religious belief about death? 

If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?

Are you afraid of death?

Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?

What's the point of living if we just die.


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## RetiredGySgt

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.

On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.

144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.


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## alan1

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?


 No



drifter said:


> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?


 No



drifter said:


> Are you afraid of death?


 No



drifter said:


> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?


 Just dead



drifter said:


> What's the point of living if we just die.


Don't assume there is a point.


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## Michelle420

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just dead
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't assume there is a point.
Click to expand...


Do you think there is a point?


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## Michelle420

RetiredGySgt said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
Click to expand...


I assume and you can correct me if I am wrong, but I assume you are not afraid of death and you see a point to life. If so, what is the point in your opinion?


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## emptystep

Casper, the friendly ghost, says, "hello".


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## Caroljo

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



You ask alot of good questions.....and i don't have all the answers 

I'm Christian.  I don't go to Church.   I agree with a lot of non believers that speak about the hypocrisy in the Church.  I've seen too much.   But to your questions....i do believe we live on after death.  We all have souls....our souls are US.  I believe our souls go to God.  I don't know what it's like.

I'm not afraid of death....i just worry about HOW i'm going to die.  I'm not into pain, and i always pray that when it's my time it's quick.  Preferably i die in my sleep 

And loved ones communicating??? Yes... i do believe they can.  After my mother died, my daughter was only 10 and saw her grandma in her doorway one night.  Even though the woman looked very young, she knew it was grandma.  My kids have also seen and heard things that indicate it's a relative that's passed. I've seen and heard things....
But no, i can't prove anything.

We do not live in this world, then just die and there's nothing else.  Anyone that believes this is crazy.  What happens to our souls then?  SOMETHING goes on after death......


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## RetiredGySgt

drifter said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I assume and you can correct me if I am wrong, but I assume you are not afraid of death and you see a point to life. If so, what is the point in your opinion?
Click to expand...


God's plan is to let us grow and become smarter. I do not fear death. In fact I am depressed and suicidal most days. I hang on because I have a family that needs me and I know God does not condone suicide. And yes I do therapy and medication.


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## Caroljo

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just dead
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't assume there is a point.
Click to expand...


Wow...I'm surprised you haven't off'd yourself yet! Why are you even living?  Why am I?  You think we just HAPPENED and there's nothing more??


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## alan1

drifter said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> Just dead
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't assume there is a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
Click to expand...


I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
I live, I'll die.  It is.


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## alan1

Caroljo said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> Just dead
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't assume there is a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow...I'm surprised you haven't off'd yourself yet! Why are you even living?  Why am I?  You think we just HAPPENED and there's nothing more??
Click to expand...

I'm not into suicide or murder.


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## Michelle420

RetiredGySgt said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume and you can correct me if I am wrong, but I assume you are not afraid of death and you see a point to life. If so, what is the point in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God's plan is to let us grow and become smarter. I do not fear death. In fact I am depressed and suicidal most days. I hang on because I have a family that needs me and I know God does not condone suicide. And yes I do therapy and medication.
Click to expand...


I see.

I think it's commendable that you do hang on for your family.

If you didn't believe in God or afterlife, you would still believe in a sense of duty and commitment to your family. That makes sense.


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## uscitizen

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



what is the point of sex if it ends?

Living is the point of living.  Enjoy it while you can becuase there is nothign guaranteed/proven to exist except what we have right now.


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## Michelle420

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> Just dead
> 
> 
> Don't assume there is a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
Click to expand...


Ok, well what do you think your point is, if you had to summarize it?


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## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what is the point of sex if it ends?
> 
> Living is the point of living.  Enjoy it while you can becuase there is nothign guaranteed/proven to exist except what we have right now.
Click to expand...


What if you don't enjoy living, if we just die then it makes no big difference whether your around or not unless like another poster said you have family that would feel bad if you died.


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## uscitizen

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> No
> 
> Just dead
> 
> 
> Don't assume there is a point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
Click to expand...


Just like any other creature on this planet, you are born you reproduce and you die and the cycle continues with the next generation.

The POINT is that you make the world a better place for you children and that cycle also continues thru the generations.
Hopefully....


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## alan1

drifter said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, well what do you think your point is, if you had to summarize it?
Click to expand...


Do you think there is a point?


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## Michelle420

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, well what do you think your point is, if you had to summarize it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
Click to expand...


Well I used to, but i don't know anymore.

If a bee is to produce honey, what is an Alan1 for ?


----------



## alan1

uscitizen said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just like any other creature on this planet, you are born you reproduce and you die and the cycle continues with the next generation.
> 
> The POINT is that you make the world a better place for you children and that cycle also continues thru the generations.
> Hopefully....
Click to expand...

There is that.


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## Zoom

"What do you think happens after we die?"

Some say you see God perhaps.  Live in Heaven and become democrats?


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## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just like any other creature on this planet, you are born you reproduce and you die and the cycle continues with the next generation.
> 
> The POINT is that you make the world a better place for you children and that cycle also continues thru the generations.
> Hopefully....
Click to expand...


What if your family is dead and your the only one left?

Then is your point over ?


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## uscitizen

Zoom said:


> "What do you think happens after we die?"
> 
> Some say you see God perhaps.  Live in Heaven and become democrats?



surely there is not politics in Heaven?


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## emptystep

RetiredGySgt said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume and you can correct me if I am wrong, but I assume you are not afraid of death and you see a point to life. If so, what is the point in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God's plan is to let us grow and become smarter. I do not fear death. In fact I am depressed and suicidal most days. I hang on because I have a family that needs me and I know God does not condone suicide. And yes I do therapy and medication.
Click to expand...


As someone who has had someone very close to me pay the ferryman, so to speak, I wish there was something I could say. After some one goes a thousand times one asks what they could have/should have said or done. 

This why I always try to temper my cutting remakes. I said 'try'. And I try to come back with something uplifting next time around. I know I have made a cutting reply or two to you. If I have not come around with something uplifting please let this be that one. 

If not for your family this board needs you. Also I still have a lot more cutting remarks to go.


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## alan1

drifter said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, well what do you think your point is, if you had to summarize it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I used to, but i don't know anymore.
> 
> If a bee is to produce honey, what is an Alan1 for ?
Click to expand...


del needs flame zone material.  

P.S. it's alan 1 (lowercase a)


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## Zoom

RetiredGySgt said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
Click to expand...


Wow.

This actually sounds like a great science fiction movie.


----------



## uscitizen

drifter said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like any other creature on this planet, you are born you reproduce and you die and the cycle continues with the next generation.
> 
> The POINT is that you make the world a better place for you children and that cycle also continues thru the generations.
> Hopefully....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What if your family is dead and your the only one left?
> 
> Then is your point over ?
Click to expand...


Nope you can live for yourself or find someone to help or help make the world better for others children.

Or you can piss and moan and exopect to be rewarded after death only to maybe realize nothing after death.
Our mind is an electro chemical machine.  Once it dies what is left?


----------



## uscitizen

Zoom said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> This actually sounds like a great science fiction movie.
Click to expand...

or the start of a cult?


----------



## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just like any other creature on this planet, you are born you reproduce and you die and the cycle continues with the next generation.
> 
> The POINT is that you make the world a better place for you children and that cycle also continues thru the generations.
> Hopefully....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if your family is dead and your the only one left?
> 
> Then is your point over ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope you can live for yourself or find someone to help or help make the world better for others children.
> 
> Or you can piss and moan and exopect to be rewarded after death only to maybe realize nothing after death.
> Our mind is an electro chemical machine.  Once it dies what is left?
Click to expand...


I don't know what is left, that's why I was asking what you all thought about the matter. 

But I do like your point about helping others, there is a satisfaction in that.


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## emptystep

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



Dude, you don't need an emergency phone number, do you!?


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## Michelle420

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think there is a point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I used to, but i don't know anymore.
> 
> If a bee is to produce honey, what is an Alan1 for ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> del needs flame zone material.
> 
> P.S. it's alan 1 (lowercase a)
Click to expand...


All right alan1, you are flame zone material.


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## uscitizen

He has LIfe Alert!


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## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you don't need an emergency phone number, do you!?
Click to expand...


No. I was just wondering about death, life is weird ya know?

I was wondering why we all do what we do when we know we are all going to die, and why if we think that is all there is ....then why aren't we better to each other? 

If we believe in a religion also same question in my head why aren't we better to each other?

But if we have nothing to live for and believe there is no point and don't care then that is probably why. 

I don't have any answers I only have questions.


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## emptystep

uscitizen said:


> He has LIfe Alert!



I'm not so sure. He is on the message board. That would make anyone want to make it all end.


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## uscitizen

I believe the promise of rewards after death cheapens the only certain life we have.


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## emptystep

drifter said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you don't need an emergency phone number, do you!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. I was just wondering about death, life is weird ya know?
> 
> I was wondering why we all do what we do when we know we are all going to die, and why if we think that is all there is ....then why aren't we better to each other?
> 
> If we believe in a religion also same question in my head why aren't we better to each other?
> 
> But if we have nothing to live for and believe there is no point and don't care then that is probably why.
> 
> I don't have any answers I only have questions.
Click to expand...


I wish I could ask your age but that is probably against the rules.


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## uscitizen

emptystep said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has LIfe Alert!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure. He is on the message board. That would make anyone want to make it all end.
Click to expand...


I have not seen the usual pack opf trollers on this thread yet.


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## Zoom

uscitizen said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> "What do you think happens after we die?"
> 
> Some say you see God perhaps.  Live in Heaven and become democrats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surely there is not politics in Heaven?
Click to expand...


That is true.  They all turn into Democrats.


----------



## emptystep

uscitizen said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has LIfe Alert!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure. He is on the message board. That would make anyone want to make it all end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have not seen the usual pack opf trollers on this thread yet.
Click to expand...


Between you and me he doesn't need any more 'friends'.


----------



## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you don't need an emergency phone number, do you!?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. I was just wondering about death, life is weird ya know?
> 
> I was wondering why we all do what we do when we know we are all going to die, and why if we think that is all there is ....then why aren't we better to each other?
> 
> If we believe in a religion also same question in my head why aren't we better to each other?
> 
> But if we have nothing to live for and believe there is no point and don't care then that is probably why.
> 
> I don't have any answers I only have questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish I could ask your age but that is probably against the rules.
Click to expand...


I guess I better go read them 

_ I am an adult._

Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?


----------



## uscitizen

I have been on here for years and am near death.  A couple of years overdue actually.
I do not fear death but am not bad enough pain and suffering wise to welcome it yet.

I am my favorite philosopher.
I follow my own nose and follow no group.


----------



## emptystep

drifter said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. I was just wondering about death, life is weird ya know?
> 
> I was wondering why we all do what we do when we know we are all going to die, and why if we think that is all there is ....then why aren't we better to each other?
> 
> If we believe in a religion also same question in my head why aren't we better to each other?
> 
> But if we have nothing to live for and believe there is no point and don't care then that is probably why.
> 
> I don't have any answers I only have questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could ask your age but that is probably against the rules.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess I better go read them
> 
> _ I am an adult._
> 
> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?
Click to expand...


Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar, was one of the best books I have ever read if that tells you anything. It probably doesn't as it doesn't tell me anything either.


----------



## Michelle420

Caroljo said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ask alot of good questions.....and i don't have all the answers
> 
> I'm Christian.  I don't go to Church.   I agree with a lot of non believers that speak about the hypocrisy in the Church.  I've seen too much.   But to your questions....i do believe we live on after death.  We all have souls....our souls are US.  I believe our souls go to God.  I don't know what it's like.
> 
> I'm not afraid of death....i just worry about HOW i'm going to die.  I'm not into pain, and i always pray that when it's my time it's quick.  Preferably i die in my sleep
> 
> And loved ones communicating??? Yes... i do believe they can.  After my mother died, my daughter was only 10 and saw her grandma in her doorway one night.  Even though the woman looked very young, she knew it was grandma.  My kids have also seen and heard things that indicate it's a relative that's passed. I've seen and heard things....
> But no, i can't prove anything.
> 
> We do not live in this world, then just die and there's nothing else.  Anyone that believes this is crazy.  What happens to our souls then?  SOMETHING goes on after death......
Click to expand...


I worry about dying painfully too.


----------



## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could ask your age but that is probably against the rules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I better go read them
> 
> _ I am an adult._
> 
> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar, was one of the best books I have ever read if that tells you anything. It probably doesn't as it doesn't tell me anything either.
Click to expand...


Wasn't that a very depressing book?


----------



## uscitizen

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could ask your age but that is probably against the rules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I better go read them
> 
> _ I am an adult._
> 
> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar, was one of the best books I have ever read if that tells you anything. It probably doesn't as it doesn't tell me anything either.
Click to expand...


LOL  Yep books on philosophy hit me about the same way.


----------



## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> I have been on here for years and am near death.  A couple of years overdue actually.
> I do not fear death but am not bad enough pain and suffering wise to welcome it yet.
> 
> I am my favorite philosopher.
> I follow my own nose and follow no group.



How did you overcome the pain of losing someone you love to death?


----------



## uscitizen

drifter said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been on here for years and am near death.  A couple of years overdue actually.
> I do not fear death but am not bad enough pain and suffering wise to welcome it yet.
> 
> I am my favorite philosopher.
> I follow my own nose and follow no group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did you overcome the pain of losing someone you love to death?
Click to expand...


You never really overcome it.  You learn to live with and kinda embrace it to help make you stronger and yet do not let it harden you to loving others/somene else later.

You never really "get over" it.
But it explains one reason why many think there is life after death.  Because they want to be with their loved ones once again.
Hold on tight and make the most of it while you can.


----------



## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been on here for years and am near death.  A couple of years overdue actually.
> I do not fear death but am not bad enough pain and suffering wise to welcome it yet.
> 
> I am my favorite philosopher.
> I follow my own nose and follow no group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did you overcome the pain of losing someone you love to death?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You never really overcome it.  You learn to live with and kinda embrace it to help make you stronger and yet do not let it harden you.
> 
> You never really "get over" it.
> But it explains one reason why many think there is life after death.  Because they want to be with their loved ones once again.
> Hold on tight and make the most of it while you can.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you want to call the person and can't or if something funny happens that you know the person would have liked you can't share it anymore, and the loss leaves you feeling so empty.

I don't like death at all.


----------



## emptystep

Damn you guys depressing me. Now I'm going to jump.


----------



## uscitizen

drifter said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> How did you overcome the pain of losing someone you love to death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You never really overcome it.  You learn to live with and kinda embrace it to help make you stronger and yet do not let it harden you.
> 
> You never really "get over" it.
> But it explains one reason why many think there is life after death.  Because they want to be with their loved ones once again.
> Hold on tight and make the most of it while you can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, you want to call the person and can't or if something funny happens that you know the person would have liked you can't share it anymore, and the loss leaves you feeling so empty.
> 
> I don't like death at all.
Click to expand...


there is nothing to like about death.  Some do not even like life.  both simply are.


----------



## uscitizen

emptystep said:


> Damn you guys depressing me. Now I'm going to jump.



Be careful, 4000 people a year die from falling out of bed.


----------



## alan1

drifter said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I used to, but i don't know anymore.
> 
> If a bee is to produce honey, what is an Alan1 for ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> del needs flame zone material.
> 
> P.S. it's alan 1 (lowercase a)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All right alan1, you are flame zone material.
Click to expand...


don't I know it.


----------



## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> You never really overcome it.  You learn to live with and kinda embrace it to help make you stronger and yet do not let it harden you.
> 
> You never really "get over" it.
> But it explains one reason why many think there is life after death.  Because they want to be with their loved ones once again.
> Hold on tight and make the most of it while you can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you want to call the person and can't or if something funny happens that you know the person would have liked you can't share it anymore, and the loss leaves you feeling so empty.
> 
> I don't like death at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is nothing to like about death.  Some do not even like life.  both simply are.
Click to expand...


We are unique in that we experience feelings and attachments, whereas inanimate objects do not.

Of course it seems natural to want an explanation for living and to speculate on existing after physical death.

Thanks for the contribution of thoughts.


----------



## uscitizen

Flame zone?  Is that where you go if you are bad?


----------



## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> Damn you guys depressing me. Now I'm going to jump.



don't do it the industrial complex needs your contribution 

or

someone loves you in your offline life and would feel really bad if you jumped.


----------



## alan1

drifter said:


> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?



I know you didn't ask me, but Lao Tzu is my favorite.  Not much about death in his writings.


----------



## uscitizen

drifter said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you want to call the person and can't or if something funny happens that you know the person would have liked you can't share it anymore, and the loss leaves you feeling so empty.
> 
> I don't like death at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is nothing to like about death.  Some do not even like life.  both simply are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are unique in that we experience feelings and attachments, whereas inanimate objects do not.
> 
> Of course it seems natural to want an explanation for living and to speculate on existing after physical death.
> 
> Thanks for the contribution of thoughts.
Click to expand...


but other life forms clearly experience feelings and attachments.

Our minds and knowledge are clearly far to limited to understand why many things ARE even if it was explained to us or could be explained to us.
And we do not live long enough to ever get that wise.


----------



## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is nothing to like about death.  Some do not even like life.  both simply are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are unique in that we experience feelings and attachments, whereas inanimate objects do not.
> 
> Of course it seems natural to want an explanation for living and to speculate on existing after physical death.
> 
> Thanks for the contribution of thoughts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but other life forms clearly experience feelings and attachments.
Click to expand...


I know, but I'll torture myself about that one a different day.


----------



## emptystep

drifter said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I better go read them
> 
> _ I am an adult._
> 
> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar, was one of the best books I have ever read if that tells you anything. It probably doesn't as it doesn't tell me anything either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wasn't that a very depressing book?
Click to expand...


It was soo beautiful. I read it a few years before my younger brother committed suicide. I don't think the two saw life in the same way at all. Sylvia was like a exquisite butterfly whose wings had frozen solid. She still loved life but had become unable to fly and was watching herself fall.

There were also a couple years in high school when car crashes seemed to be a trend. God that hurts. I will never forget walking into the house where a girl I dated for a little bit, very quiet girl, very beautiful inside. Both of her parents were home but silence was crushing. They a very open floor plan with hardwood floors and big windows. The kind of environment where sound would bounce off easily. The silence was crushing. One could fill that house with a hundred people and the most noticeable thing would be her absence.

My mother said she heard the pain seems to get a lot less after about two years and she found that to somewhat the case. I can't say. Maybe I just don't like letting go of the pain because it is what I have the most of.

OK, now I really am jumping out the fucking window. (sorry if I misspelled anything, I am not proofreading that.)


----------



## Michelle420

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you didn't ask me, but Lao Tzu is my favorite.  Not much about death in his writings.
Click to expand...


Nice

A man with outward courage dares to die; a man with inner courage dares to live. 
 &#8213; Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching


----------



## emptystep

alan1 said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you didn't ask me, but Lao Tzu is my favorite.  Not much about death in his writings.
Click to expand...


I had a semester of him. He was definitely food for thought. I think, therefore I am, right?


----------



## uscitizen

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar, was one of the best books I have ever read if that tells you anything. It probably doesn't as it doesn't tell me anything either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that a very depressing book?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was soo beautiful. I read it a few years before my younger brother committed suicide. I don't think the two saw life in the same way at all. Sylvia was like a exquisite butterfly whose wings had frozen solid. She still loved life but had become unable to fly and was watching herself fall.
> 
> There were also a couple years in high school when car crashes seemed to be a trend. God that hurts. I will never forget walking into the house where a girl I dated for a little bit, very quiet girl, very beautiful inside. Both of her parents were home but silence was crushing. They a very open floor plan with hardwood floors and big windows. The kind of environment where sound would bounce off easily. The silence was crushing. One could fill that house with a hundred people and the most noticeable thing would be her absence.
> 
> My mother said she heard the pain seems to get a lot less after about two years and she found that to somewhat the case. I can't say. Maybe I just don't like letting go of the pain because it is what I have the most of.
> 
> OK, now I really am jumping out the fucking window. (sorry if I misspelled anything, I am not proofreading that.)
Click to expand...


I tried the head in the oven thing, but it was an electric range.  Took a while for my hair to grow back.
the damn suicide prevention line wanted a credit card number!


----------



## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar, was one of the best books I have ever read if that tells you anything. It probably doesn't as it doesn't tell me anything either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that a very depressing book?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was soo beautiful. I read it a few years before my younger brother committed suicide. I don't think the two saw life in the same way at all. Sylvia was like a exquisite butterfly whose wings had frozen solid. She still loved life but had become unable to fly and was watching herself fall.
> 
> There were also a couple years in high school when car crashes seemed to be a trend. God that hurts. I will never forget walking into the house where a girl I dated for a little bit, very quiet girl, very beautiful inside. Both of her parents were home but silence was crushing. They a very open floor plan with hardwood floors and big windows. The kind of environment where sound would bounce off easily. The silence was crushing. One could fill that house with a hundred people and the most noticeable thing would be her absence.
> 
> My mother said she heard the pain seems to get a lot less after about two years and she found that to somewhat the case. I can't say. Maybe I just don't like letting go of the pain because it is what I have the most of.
> 
> OK, now I really am jumping out the fucking window. (sorry if I misspelled anything, I am not proofreading that.)
Click to expand...


I have had that in my family to, and it's so painful, This past year was the hardest one ever.

I don't really know how to feel about it, this is why I wonder about life and death, is because the pain is so strong when someone dies and also especially when someone doesn't want to live and attempts/commits suicide. 

I can't really put into words the shock and pain over things like that.

Sylvia Plath would be too depressing for me I just want to feel inspired and connected positively but I am not into religion and so I find it hard to get answers to questions I have without feeling a little depressed.


----------



## emptystep

Time for me to put the kid in bed. Nothing like knowing you can lose to make you value the having.

Great talking with you drifter and uscitizen. Until we meet again.


----------



## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't that a very depressing book?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was soo beautiful. I read it a few years before my younger brother committed suicide. I don't think the two saw life in the same way at all. Sylvia was like a exquisite butterfly whose wings had frozen solid. She still loved life but had become unable to fly and was watching herself fall.
> 
> There were also a couple years in high school when car crashes seemed to be a trend. God that hurts. I will never forget walking into the house where a girl I dated for a little bit, very quiet girl, very beautiful inside. Both of her parents were home but silence was crushing. They a very open floor plan with hardwood floors and big windows. The kind of environment where sound would bounce off easily. The silence was crushing. One could fill that house with a hundred people and the most noticeable thing would be her absence.
> 
> My mother said she heard the pain seems to get a lot less after about two years and she found that to somewhat the case. I can't say. Maybe I just don't like letting go of the pain because it is what I have the most of.
> 
> OK, now I really am jumping out the fucking window. (sorry if I misspelled anything, I am not proofreading that.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I tried the head in the oven thing, but it was an electric range.  Took a while for my hair to grow back.
> the damn suicide prevention line wanted a credit card number!
Click to expand...


Is it because you felt no reason to exist or because someone disappointed you, and you felt all alone?


----------



## alan1

emptystep said:


> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is your favorite philosopher and what did they he/she have to say about death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you didn't ask me, but Lao Tzu is my favorite.  Not much about death in his writings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I had a semester of him. He was definitely food for thought. I think, therefore I am, right?
Click to expand...

Nope


----------



## yidnar

drifter said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alan1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that depends upon one's definition of "point".
> Is the point of a bee is to pollinate plants or to produce honey?  What is the point of a wasp?
> I live, I'll die.  It is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like any other creature on this planet, you are born you reproduce and you die and the cycle continues with the next generation.
> 
> The POINT is that you make the world a better place for you children and that cycle also continues thru the generations.
> Hopefully....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What if your family is dead and your the only one left?
> 
> Then is your point over ?
Click to expand...

no !! the point is not over !! their is a reason to live !!.......AlWAYS !!!!


----------



## uscitizen

drifter said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was soo beautiful. I read it a few years before my younger brother committed suicide. I don't think the two saw life in the same way at all. Sylvia was like a exquisite butterfly whose wings had frozen solid. She still loved life but had become unable to fly and was watching herself fall.
> 
> There were also a couple years in high school when car crashes seemed to be a trend. God that hurts. I will never forget walking into the house where a girl I dated for a little bit, very quiet girl, very beautiful inside. Both of her parents were home but silence was crushing. They a very open floor plan with hardwood floors and big windows. The kind of environment where sound would bounce off easily. The silence was crushing. One could fill that house with a hundred people and the most noticeable thing would be her absence.
> 
> My mother said she heard the pain seems to get a lot less after about two years and she found that to somewhat the case. I can't say. Maybe I just don't like letting go of the pain because it is what I have the most of.
> 
> OK, now I really am jumping out the fucking window. (sorry if I misspelled anything, I am not proofreading that.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried the head in the oven thing, but it was an electric range.  Took a while for my hair to grow back.
> the damn suicide prevention line wanted a credit card number!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is it because you felt no reason to exist or because someone disappointed you, and you felt all alone?
Click to expand...


JK about the attempts.
However strange that.
I have been depressed all my life but never really suicidal.  I have mostly felt alone even in a crowd of known friends, real friends.
I have lost friends to war in front of my eyes, lost family to disease , Old age.  The worst was my mother to dymensia/Altzheimers.  I have not lost a child though, that would have to be horrible.

I expect to take my own life when this old life gets not worth living due to my affliction,  I will NOT live as a total veggie in a bed.


----------



## uscitizen

yidnar said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just like any other creature on this planet, you are born you reproduce and you die and the cycle continues with the next generation.
> 
> The POINT is that you make the world a better place for you children and that cycle also continues thru the generations.
> Hopefully....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What if your family is dead and your the only one left?
> 
> Then is your point over ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no !! the point is not over !! their is a reason to live !!.......AWAYS !!!!
Click to expand...


Even if Romney lost?

And no there becomes a point due to illness when living is not a reason to suffer.
I do not encourage anyone to take their life, but I will support their decision to do so in some cases.

Depression due to a loss of a loved on will get less intense as time passes and one can still enjoy life they will find.


----------



## yidnar

uscitizen said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if your family is dead and your the only one left?
> 
> Then is your point over ?
> 
> 
> 
> no !! the point is not over !! their is a reason to live !!.......AWAYS !!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Even if Romney lost?
> 
> And no there becomes a point due to illness when living is not a reason to suffer.
> I do not encourage anyone to take their life, but I will support their decision to do so in some cases.
> 
> Depression due to a loss of a loved on will get less intense as time passes and one can still enjoy life they will find.
Click to expand...

even though !!


----------



## skye

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.




I think that when our physical bodies die .... because its only our body that dies not  ourselves...we are  souls and Immortal... we shed that lower body.... and take a subtler body ...a more spiritual body that  lives in a higher sphere so to speak.

This has nothing to do with religion or man made theories.... 

I am not afraid of death I only want the transition  to be quick.

I think that when we die... is when we really "wake up" and realize this life on earth was a dream ... or a school or University to learn lesson which we could not have   learnt  any other way.  We feel free and liberated after leaving this body.


But then again...what do I know?  nothing at all my friends!

Not a thing!!!


----------



## Michelle420

uscitizen said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tried the head in the oven thing, but it was an electric range.  Took a while for my hair to grow back.
> the damn suicide prevention line wanted a credit card number!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it because you felt no reason to exist or because someone disappointed you, and you felt all alone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JK about the attempts.
> However strange that.
> I have been depressed all my life but never really suicidal.  I have mostly felt alone even in a crowd of known friends, real friends.
> I have lost friends to war in front of my eyes, lost family to disease , Old age.  The worst was my mother to dymensia/Altzheimers.  I have not lost a child though, that would have to be horrible.
> 
> I expect to take my own life when this old life gets not worth living due to my affliction,  I will NOT live as a total veggie in a bed.
Click to expand...


Relieved you did not actually try to off yourself.

Suicide is so hard a pain to deal with when it is done out of a mental anguish, I am not sure if it is hard to deal with when done because of a incurable disease I suspect it is different for those left behind but still very painful.


----------



## Michelle420

skye said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that when our physical bodies die .... because its only our body that dies not  ourselves...we are  souls and Immortal... we shed that lower body.... and take a subtler body ...a more spiritual body that  lives in a higher sphere so to speak.
> 
> This has nothing to do with religion or man made theories....
> 
> I am not afraid of death I only want the transition  to be quick.
> 
> I think that when we die... is when we really "wake up" and realize this life on earth was a dream ... or a school or University to learn lesson which we could not have   learnt  any other way.  We feel free and liberated after leaving this body.
> 
> 
> But then again...what do I know?  nothing at all my friends!
> 
> Not a thing!!!
Click to expand...


I like your ideas about it, it has a comforting feeling , I only wish we knew for sure and since we don't I have to assume the worst....we just die.


----------



## Dreamy

Caroljo said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ask alot of good questions.....and i don't have all the answers
> 
> I'm Christian. I don't go to Church. I agree with a lot of non believers that speak about the hypocrisy in the Church. I've seen too much. But to your questions....i do believe we live on after death. We all have souls....our souls are US. I believe our souls go to God. I don't know what it's like.
> 
> I'm not afraid of death....i just worry about HOW i'm going to die. I'm not into pain, and i always pray that when it's my time it's quick. Preferably i die in my sleep
> 
> And loved ones communicating??? Yes... i do believe they can. After my mother died, my daughter was only 10 and saw her grandma in her doorway one night. Even though the woman looked very young, she knew it was grandma. My kids have also seen and heard things that indicate it's a relative that's passed. I've seen and heard things....
> But no, i can't prove anything.
> 
> We do not live in this world, then just die and there's nothing else. Anyone that believes this is crazy. What happens to our souls then? SOMETHING goes on after death......
Click to expand...

 
^^Pretty much this for me too.

 I am equal parts mind, body and soul all wrapped up in an adorable package of bitch/angel.  lol


----------



## earlycuyler

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



Rest. No fear, no pain, no politics, no worries. Death is a fact of life just like birth is. I am a believer, dont worry, I wont preach, but I am free of any fear of death, because at the very least, everything I hate about "life" will be done. I dont believe our loved ones communicate, but that they do see us. Whats the point of living ? Being happy, sex, eating food, smoking pot, good beer now and then, watching the kids grow up, revenge, cold air in the lungs , a smoke, sunrise in Texas,  bugling Elk, my bow in my hand, playing with my dog, watching movies with my wife, anger and sadness. I cant say I am happy all the time, but Its just the way things are. Good, bad I am here. And I love it. I dont dwell on death, I dwell on life.


----------



## Wiseacre

Reincarnation.   No heaven, no hell, just a little R&R and then back to work in another life.   Men come back as women and vice versa, democrats as republicans and vice versa, somebody is screwing with us.


----------



## Bill Angel

I've been single all my life (I'm 64 now) and, not having had any brothers or sisters, I don't feel a personal sense of loss when anyone dies. My parents were a couple of assholes, and the idea that there is no afterlife in which I would encounter them fills me with gratitude. But if there is an afterlife (consistent with Jewish and Christian religious beliefs) there are reasons I won't go into that ensure that I'll be spending Eternity in a different place than they will, which is another concept that fills me with gratitude. So whether the atheists are correct, or the "God fearing Christians" are correct, I figure that for me it's a win-win situation.


----------



## Michelle420

Bill Angel said:


> I've been single all my life (I'm 64 now) and, not having had any brothers or sisters, I don't feel a personal sense of loss when anyone dies. My parents were a couple of assholes, and the idea that there is no afterlife in which I would encounter them fills me with gratitude. But if there is an afterlife (consistent with Jewish and Christian religious beliefs) there are reasons I won't go into that ensure that I'll be spending Eternity in a different place than they will, which is another concept that fills me with gratitude. So whether the atheists are correct, or the "God fearing Christians" are correct, I figure that for me it's a win-win situation.



What makes you feel enjoyment in living?

Do you feel indifferent to life or a commitment to it?


----------



## skye

Bill Angel said:


> I've been single all my life (I'm 64 now) and, not having had any brothers or sisters, I don't feel a personal sense of loss when anyone dies. My parents were a couple of assholes, and the idea that there is no afterlife in which I would encounter them fills me with gratitude. But if there is an afterlife (consistent with Jewish and Christian religious beliefs) there are reasons I won't go into that ensure that I'll be spending Eternity in a different place than they will, which is another concept that fills me with gratitude. So whether the atheists are correct, or the "God fearing Christians" are correct, I figure that for me it's a win-win situation.





Well..... I think you have nothing to worry about...because in the after life one only attracts and "lives" only in the circle of people who are like you and feel like you and are sympathetic to your way of feeling and thinking.

You attract your own so to speak.

Then again... I have no proof of all this !!! hehe


----------



## RetiredGySgt

uscitizen said:


> Zoom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> This actually sounds like a great science fiction movie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or the start of a cult?
Click to expand...


Read the bible. I realize most supposed Christian religions have bastardized it and claim you go to heaven when you die. The Bible is clear, No man has ascended except that he first descended ( Jesus) Everything I wrote is spelled out in the Bible.


----------



## Bill Angel

drifter said:


> Bill Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been single all my life (I'm 64 now) and, not having had any brothers or sisters, I don't feel a personal sense of loss when anyone dies. My parents were a couple of assholes, and the idea that there is no afterlife in which I would encounter them fills me with gratitude. But if there is an afterlife (consistent with Jewish and Christian religious beliefs) there are reasons I won't go into that ensure that I'll be spending Eternity in a different place than they will, which is another concept that fills me with gratitude. So whether the atheists are correct, or the "God fearing Christians" are correct, I figure that for me it's a win-win situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you feel enjoyment in living?
> 
> Do you feel indifferent to life or a commitment to it?
Click to expand...


What makes me feel an enjoyment in living? Watching and photographing children.



Child Admiring Clifford the Big Red Dog" by Bill A, on Flickr

Do I feel indifferent to life or a commitment to it?
I served in the US Navy, and continue to be a supporter of Veterans and of efforts to ensure that servicemen (and women) don't throw away their lives when they fight and sometimes die for their country.




Boy Contemplating Meaning of Vietnam Veterans' Memorial by Bill A, on Flickr


----------



## Dajjal

Here is a spiritualist mediums spirit guide talking about what happens after we die.

Chapter 2 - What Happens When We Die?


----------



## Michelle420

Durkheims theory on suicide is that it happens not because of personal despair or psychological problems but because of a persons inability to assimilate into an organized society.

Do you think there is truth in that theory?

I am thinking about people who offed themselves after the stock market crash in the depression era.


----------



## Michelle420

Dajjal said:


> Here is a spiritualist mediums spirit guide talking about what happens after we die.
> 
> Chapter 2 - What Happens When We Die?



Why don't we ever read accounts of ethnic ghosts or channel in people who died in urban inner city environments? It's always people from the 1800's ( ok I am just being a little jokey here)

Ona  more serious note:

Is there any religion that psychics report have validity when talking to the dead?


----------



## Michelle420

[ame=http://youtu.be/-cu29S-jvxQ]24. Durkheim on Suicide - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Bill Angel

drifter said:


> Durkheims theory on suicide is that it happens not because of personal despair or psychological problems but because of a persons inability to assimilate into an organized society.
> 
> Do you think there is truth in that theory?
> 
> I am thinking about people who offed themselves after the stock market crash in the depression era.


One type of situation that is recurrent is when someone kills members of his own family and then kills himself, before or during a standoff with police. I suppose that all the factors that you mentioned as aspects of Durkheims theory would likely be present in such a situation.


----------



## Michelle420

Bill Angel said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Durkheims theory on suicide is that it happens not because of personal despair or psychological problems but because of a persons inability to assimilate into an organized society.
> 
> Do you think there is truth in that theory?
> 
> I am thinking about people who offed themselves after the stock market crash in the depression era.
> 
> 
> 
> One type of situation that is recurrent is when someone kills members of his own family and then kills himself, before or during a standoff with police. I suppose that all the factors that you mentioned as aspects of Durkheims theory would likely be present in such a situation.
Click to expand...


Excellent example, and yes that's part of durkheims type of theory.

Durkheim iow theorizes that society causes suicide. I am still reading about it but it's such a weird concept to me because prior to that I looked at it as more of a individual psychological problem.


----------



## BreezeWood

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.





the point is finding the answers before the physiological form perishes as a means to escape the same fate.


----------



## Bill Angel

Dajjal said:


> Here is a spiritualist mediums spirit guide talking about what happens after we die.
> 
> Chapter 2 - What Happens When We Die?




 Here is a section from a video, devoted to explaining the importance of the discovery of the Higgs boson, in which a physicist discusses why there is no life after death.
TubeChop - Higgs Boson and the Fundamental Nature of Reality - Sean Carroll - Skepticon 5 (01:51)


----------



## Michelle420

[ame=http://youtu.be/-Rz4ReNv6M8]Alan Watts - Dealing with the fear of death - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## midcan5

"If I was dead, I wouldnt know I was dead. Thats the only thing I have against death. I want to enjoy my death."  Samuel Beckett


----------



## Michelle420

Death is so weird. 

My pet of 13 yrs died today, I was petting him and he let out a sigh and died.

He had kidney disease and my Vet already prepared me that it was going to happen, it was peaceful and quick but still sad.


----------



## Michelle420

Obviously a pet is different then a person, I have had to deal with death of my relative in october and throughout the year just themes of death.

Since we are all going to die , I guess the only thing to do is live and give while I can.


----------



## Michelle420

Just found out late last night that my Dad is dead.

I was told he had been dead for two days before they found him.

I am thinking he died the same day as my pet.

We had been a estranged for a while so it's just weird.


----------



## emptystep

drifter said:


> Just found out late last night that my Dad is dead.
> 
> I was told he had been dead for two days before they found him.
> 
> I am thinking he died the same day as my pet.
> 
> We had been a estranged for a while so it's just weird.



Do you think he killed your pet?


----------



## Wry Catcher

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



The point.  Love, laughter and purpose.


----------



## Michelle420

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just found out late last night that my Dad is dead.
> 
> I was told he had been dead for two days before they found him.
> 
> I am thinking he died the same day as my pet.
> 
> We had been a estranged for a while so it's just weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think he killed your pet?
Click to expand...



It was weird to have lost my cat and later find out my dad died the same day, so while I felt grief for my cat by a weird universal coincidence my biological father had died in the same time frame.

I am still processing it.

I can't put into words what I think about this moment.


----------



## emptystep

drifter said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just found out late last night that my Dad is dead.
> 
> I was told he had been dead for two days before they found him.
> 
> I am thinking he died the same day as my pet.
> 
> We had been a estranged for a while so it's just weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think he killed your pet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It was weird to have lost my cat and later find out my dad died the same day, so while I felt grief for my cat by a weird universal coincidence my biological father had died in the same time frame.
> 
> I am still processing it.
> 
> I can't put into words what I think about this moment.
Click to expand...


I have not lost a parent yet. I can't imagination what it will be like. My family is not very close but it is still a parent. 

Currently I go into Boston about once a week to do some errand, an excuse to see her for both of us basically. I am the nearest kin. When I needed a place to stay getting out of the Army and starting college she shared her one bedroom apartment with me for two years, yes, we had separate rooms.  She is 94. She seems in good health, although if I hear that same joke one more time I am going to yell at her.  She just moved into assisted house although it is not very assisted, just people around if one needs them. Of course I don't want her to go. I don't want to see her suffer either. It is an uncomfortable feeling.


----------



## emptystep

Cool avatar btw. I hope whoever's vehicle that is has a powerful hairdryer.


----------



## Truthmatters

RetiredGySgt said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you die you are as asleep, you do not go to another plane of existence, nor to heaven or hell. You know nothing and can do nothing.
> 
> On Judgement day God will call forth all the dead, returning them to new bodies. Those that are not followers of Satan and that are followers of God will be living on a restored Earth with perfect bodies, no more disease, crime or sickness. Those that were followers of Satan will return to death and be no more.
> 
> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume and you can correct me if I am wrong, but I assume you are not afraid of death and you see a point to life. If so, what is the point in your opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God's plan is to let us grow and become smarter. I do not fear death. In fact I am depressed and suicidal most days. I hang on because I have a family that needs me and I know God does not condone suicide. And yes I do therapy and medication.
Click to expand...


http://www.bigeye.com/donotgo.htm


----------



## Truthmatters

drifter said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just found out late last night that my Dad is dead.
> 
> I was told he had been dead for two days before they found him.
> 
> I am thinking he died the same day as my pet.
> 
> We had been a estranged for a while so it's just weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think he killed your pet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It was weird to have lost my cat and later find out my dad died the same day, so while I felt grief for my cat by a weird universal coincidence my biological father had died in the same time frame.
> 
> I am still processing it.
> 
> I can't put into words what I think about this moment.
Click to expand...


Every time in your life you will morn it will be different.

Their will be people and creatures you love that will pass and you will react to it different evey time.


The level of your outward grief is not indicative of your value of the love lost.


Sometimes you will go all blank and its as if nothing happened.

Sometimes it will out of the blue hit you like a ton of bricks.


Dont try to shame yourself for having your reaction not match what society would reguire of you to display.


Your grief is for YOU to process and NOT for the people to judge you by.


Some times it comes on slowly and takes years to process.

Sometimes it all falls right out of you right at the momment.

Then there are all the inbetween that can happen.

allow yourself to process it the way YOU need to process it.


Good journeys my friend.


My condolences


----------



## there4eyeM

'Death' and 'life' are names for things that we have no certainty of. Thus, all preconceptions are unlikely to be correct. Like 'light' and 'gravity', humans must create labels for what they think they observe, but cannot really explain.

Everything we are composed of has always been here, is here now, and always will be here. DNA has existed continuously from its beginning, by our terms it is immortal. We are part of all that, so the appearance of coming and going may not be anything other than our voracious egos unable to accept their ephemeral nature.

The universe and everything it represents is so vast, how can anyone think he/she can encompass it with the tiny humanity society teaches us to have? Our consciousness is bound to limitations that are excruciatingly limited, when there is just as much evidence that all exists in it rather than the reverse.

In any case, there is nothing to fear from death; either something of our awareness continues and we understand or we simply go out, like a fire. There is nothing to be frightened of in non-existence. After all, were you afraid before conception and birth?


----------



## jtpr312

You eventually face the Lord at your judgement.  Bible believing, God fearing Christians go to Heaven to be with the Lord they believed in and placed their trust in, everone else goes to hell.


----------



## emptystep

jtpr312 said:


> You eventually face the Lord at your judgement.  Bible believing, God fearing Christians go to Heaven to be with the Lord they believed in and placed their trust in, everone else goes to hell.



You capitalized 'Heaven' but used a lowercase for 'hell'. No respect for the Damned?  We do our part to make you look good.


----------



## Dabs

emptystep said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think he killed your pet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was weird to have lost my cat and later find out my dad died the same day, so while I felt grief for my cat by a weird universal coincidence my biological father had died in the same time frame.
> 
> I am still processing it.
> 
> I can't put into words what I think about this moment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I *have not lost a parent yet. *I can't imagination what it will be like. My family is not very close but it is still a parent.
> 
> Currently I go into Boston about once a week to do some errand, an excuse to see her for both of us basically. I am the nearest kin. When I needed a place to stay getting out of the Army and starting college she shared her one bedroom apartment with me for two years, yes, we had separate rooms.  She is 94. She seems in good health, although if I hear that same joke one more time I am going to yell at her.  She just moved into assisted house although it is not very assisted, just people around if one needs them. Of course I don't want her to go. I don't want to see her suffer either. It is an uncomfortable feeling.
Click to expand...


Oh Heaven's......I have. Lost my Mother, who was my best friend...and lost my real Dad and my step-Dad....I have no one.
Losing my Mother was the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life.......I still struggle......still have not fully accepted losing her.....it hurts me dearly.
Some people are close to their parents, others are not........I was very close to my Mom. She was 66 when she passed away....my step-Dad was 72 and my real Dad was 54.


----------



## auditor0007

While I believe that there is something beyond our physical death, I really don't have any belief as to what it will be.  Things have happened to me that do lead me to believe that there is life beyond this llife, but I don't think any particular religion has nailed it down exactly.  Just something to think about, but let's assume there has been a struggle going on between Satan and God Lucifer was expelled from Heaven.  Based on scripture, Satan will be defeated in the end, but that is a prophesy that has not been fulfilled, and I'm not certain we can assume that it ever will be.  This of course assumes scripture is basically correct, or at least the big picture is.  What this gets me to is a point that I don't buy into this idea that life beyond this will be much different than this life.  We experience good and bad, or good and evil here in our current lives.  Just because we are told that all evil will be removed from the afterlife, I don't think that is likely to be true.  Assuming there is an afterlife, I imagine that the struggle between good and evil will continue on.  Just my thoughts.


----------



## Michelle420

Dabs said:


> emptystep said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was weird to have lost my cat and later find out my dad died the same day, so while I felt grief for my cat by a weird universal coincidence my biological father had died in the same time frame.
> 
> I am still processing it.
> 
> I can't put into words what I think about this moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I *have not lost a parent yet. *I can't imagination what it will be like. My family is not very close but it is still a parent.
> 
> Currently I go into Boston about once a week to do some errand, an excuse to see her for both of us basically. I am the nearest kin. When I needed a place to stay getting out of the Army and starting college she shared her one bedroom apartment with me for two years, yes, we had separate rooms.  She is 94. She seems in good health, although if I hear that same joke one more time I am going to yell at her.  She just moved into assisted house although it is not very assisted, just people around if one needs them. Of course I don't want her to go. I don't want to see her suffer either. It is an uncomfortable feeling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Heaven's......I have. Lost my Mother, who was my best friend...and lost my real Dad and my step-Dad....I have no one.
> Losing my Mother was the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life.......I still struggle......still have not fully accepted losing her.....it hurts me dearly.
> Some people are close to their parents, others are not........I was very close to my Mom. She was 66 when she passed away....my step-Dad was 72 and my real Dad was 54.
Click to expand...


I have no idea what I feel


----------



## AVG-JOE

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



If God is, She's way bigger than ALL of the ancient story books, let alone any one of them.

I'm one of the luckiest little bastards to have called Earth home and death will be a welcome change of scenery.  My one hope on the subject is that I want to see it coming.

The point of living is to complete over time, certain chemical reactions set in motion by the organisms parent(s).  The point of a Sentient life is to be remembered.

Why it's common to express grief as "He/she is in a better place" seems arrogant to me, considering the actual knowledge on the subject.


----------



## Michelle420

AVG-JOE said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If God is, She's way bigger than ALL of the ancient story books, let alone any one of them.
> 
> I'm one of the luckiest little bastards to have called Earth home and death will be a welcome change of scenery.  My one hope on the subject is that I want to see it coming.
> 
> The point of living is to complete over time, certain chemical reactions set in motion by the organisms parent(s).  The point of a Sentient life is to be remembered.
> 
> Why it's common to express grief as "He/she is in a better place" seems arrogant to me considering the actual knowledge on the subject.
Click to expand...


After the initial notification about my Dad being found dead in a motel, I really haven't be able to feel anything.

People have said I will later but it's been 11 days now and nothing , kind of numb


----------



## AVG-JOE

11 days is nothing, Bro.  Tell yourself you'll take another look within in 6 months and then put it on your calendar.  

Then start pushing your chemical reactions down the time-line and let yourself think.


----------



## AVG-JOE

drifter said:


> Death is so weird.
> 
> My pet of 13 yrs died today, I was petting him and he let out a sigh and died.
> 
> He had kidney disease and my Vet already prepared me that it was going to happen, it was peaceful and quick but still sad.



Not for your pet.

His companion of all 13 years of life was there with him at the end.  

The end is inevitable...  Is there a better way to face the inevitable than in the arms of such a loved one?


----------



## Michelle420

AVG-JOE said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death is so weird.
> 
> My pet of 13 yrs died today, I was petting him and he let out a sigh and died.
> 
> He had kidney disease and my Vet already prepared me that it was going to happen, it was peaceful and quick but still sad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not for your pet.
> 
> His companion of all 13 years of life was there with him at the end.
> 
> The end is inevitable...  Is there a better way to face the inevitable than in the arms of such a loved one?
Click to expand...


Sometimes if I think too much about death, I get a shiver.

I can read philosophy and intellectualize when talking about it to others but at the end of the day, death just bothers me.

I hate that when someone dies you can never talk to them again, and it feels really lonely the idea of it all.

In the past when someone I was close to died I have had dreams about them that felt comforting.

But this year I have had 2 close relatives die since October and I have had no dreams and pretty much haven't be able to feel anything.

Both deaths were surprising to me.

Death has made me treat people I love better, because I know when someone dies I can't get a do-over.


----------



## Dajjal

I think about death more and more as I get older. I am now at an age where heart attacks are common, and I wonder what will happen, and if I will have time to sort things out. I might just drop dead and nobody will know for a few weeks, when my sister will probably come down to see why I don't answer the phone. But she will not be able to get in because the door is bolted.

My plan if I get heart pains is to rush to the door and unbolt it, then change my underwear, then call an ambulance. I just hope I get the time. Ha ha.

My pet birdy of eighteen years died a couple of years ago and it was very quick, I was grateful for that.

As for what happens after we die, I have had much experience of spiritualism and I tend to believe we inhabit the spirit world betweeen incarnations, but I am not so sure as I used to be, as I no longer go to spiritualist churches, so I have lost contact.


----------



## Dabs

Death doesn't scare me in the least...it may come to me whenever it gets the urge.
I embrace death.....looking forward to better things.......the world....life...isn't all that damn great~


----------



## Michelle420

Dajjal said:


> I think about death more and more as I get older. I am now at an age where heart attacks are common, and I wonder what will happen, and if I will have time to sort things out. I might just drop dead and nobody will know for a few weeks, when my sister will probably come down to see why I don't answer the phone. But she will not be able to get in because the door is bolted.
> 
> My plan if I get heart pains is to rush to the door and unbolt it, then change my underwear, then call an ambulance. I just hope I get the time. Ha ha.
> 
> My pet birdy of eighteen years died a couple of years ago and it was very quick, I was grateful for that.
> 
> As for what happens after we die, I have had much experience of spiritualism and I tend to believe we inhabit the spirit world betweeen incarnations, but I am not so sure as I used to be, as I no longer go to spiritualist churches, so I have lost contact.



I have had mediumship experiences although they were not "on command" like psychic seem to be on tv talk shows.

Still, I am not sure if what is being sensed is a the grieving persons memory of someone or if a spirit actually is there communicating. 

I think buddhists try to overcome attachment because we die and we can't be attached to anyone or anything, but then life seems pointless if you attach no meaning to it.


----------



## Michelle420

Dabs said:


> Death doesn't scare me in the least...it may come to me whenever it gets the urge.
> I embrace death.....looking forward to better things.......the world....life...isn't all that damn great~



You must believe in existence after death


----------



## Michelle420

It's been almost a month since my dad died I am starting to feel bad about it. 

But whenever emotion creeps up on me I tell it to go away.

I don't want to feel anything.


----------



## emilynghiem

drifter said:


> I have had mediumship experiences although they were not "on command" like psychic seem to be on tv talk shows.
> 
> Still, I am not sure if what is being sensed is a the grieving persons memory of someone or if a spirit actually is there communicating.
> 
> I think buddhists try to overcome attachment because we die and we can't be attached to anyone or anything, but then life seems pointless if you attach no meaning to it.


 
Hi Drifter Great Thread! Lots of thoughtful responses. I went through and didn't find any post where I had replied yet. there were lots of good topics herein:
1. where do you go after death or what is the meaning/purpose of life (may be 2 things)
2. favorite philosopher or philosophy (I can think of 3 that relate to this)
3. any religious validity to mediums contacting the dead
4. dealing with depression or fear of death (may be 2 things)
5. suicide causes and theories or prevention
6. and this dilemma over what Buddhism means if there is supposed to be detachment

I will try to answer all 6 as short as possible in one message (ha ha)
If I don't finish yet, but get interrupted, can we discuss the numbered points separately.
isn't there a whole philosophy based on the study of death? Thanatology?

1a. what I understand is that the spiritual energy of the person goes to another level,
and I believe it connects us to people in the past and in the future, the same as when we are living;
but because we are no longer limited by empirical perception and physical incarnation, then
this energy is more free to work on different levels, so this is what it means for people to become like angels in heaven.
I believe the same way you can have soulmates you connect with in life consciously,
you can be soulmates with people who live before or after you separated in time,
so you can still influence each other with shared inspirations or goals in life,
like the Founding Fathers influencing generations today by the words and laws passed down in our culture and our spirit,
and how likewise we the future society were the influence for them to give their lives and work so hard to build a self-checking
system of democratic process that could handled changes and reforms as civilly as possible by government of the people.

So this is very helpful to me to see the co-influencing connection where it's not just the past influencing the future,
but also vice versa, because they are connected spiritual regardless which events occur where in time. This is the
level that prayers work, so that is why forgiveness is important to free up the connections to follow positive directions
and not stay stuck repeating negative patterns of the past in a retributive vicious cycle.

so the point of life is to act unconditionally in serving the same spiritual purpose in life as we would do beyond this life.
healing from loss due to death or broken relations is also facilitated by this unconditional love for others that is
independent of our physical relationship, or part of the detachment to prevent undue suffering.

1b and 2. for purpose or meaning in life, this is my stock answer on yahoo answers:
"To understand and appreciate the beauty in everything and every person around you, the interconnected design of all elements in harmony with the greater whole, and the love and good purpose in everything in creation or the universe."

So again the idea is that some of the parts of the process we serve is done when we are living on earth
in our physical bodies and roles in relation to others, and some is done on a collective spiritual process on a higher level.

2. my teacher friend and mentor Jean White described death as moving to another room in the same house,
so she can hear and see what everyone else is doing, but she is like in a hallway or some other place
where we can't hear or see her. she said for us not to worry or miss her because she would be doing work
on another spiritual plane, and this is part of the bigger plan to work where we are needed to effect certain steps or changes.
Since she left this earth right after 9/11 I assume she was called to a higher spiritual plane to counsel souls that suddenly found themselves out of their bodies and there was a lot of grieving going on, so she may have served as a spiritual counselor that way,
the same way she helped people on earth counsel and solve problems while she was on this plane.
here is a song I wrote lyrics for as a 9/11 tribute after Jean died
http://www.houstonprogressive.org/believe/believe.html

2 and 4. another philosophy of death is that it means spiritual change. so you are either shifting from earthly life to spiritual life in other forms or levels, or you can even die and become another person in life when you let go of your past and reborn in a new world. so that way of interpreting death is unconditional and can occur regardless if you die physically or spiritually.
And it explains the feath of death as a combination of fear of change and fear of the unknown.
when you are okay with change 'unconditionally' no matter what happens then you fear death less and less.

3. through prayers and empathy yes, it is possible to tap into the past and future thoughts of people outside our presence.
See other point about having soulmates either in our lives where we have conscious contact, or outside where we can share spiritual aspirations that motivate us to achieve certain goals in our respective lives and realm of influence and culture we are in.
Christians will emphasize only to pray within the spirit and authority of Christ Jesus to ensure any evil spirits or manipulations are filtered out, since the positive energy of spiritual healing clashes with negative self-willed energies associated with spiritism with the occult, witchcraft, voodoo and other sorcery that is against the authority or spirit of Christian prayer. there are some natural healing and spiritual connections that are compatible with Christian prayer and not against, but anything self-willed or against someone or something tends to be in conflict with Christ which is supposed to mean setting aside all self will and submitted to universal will for all.

4. I mentioned some ways of framing the fear of death where it is more approachable.
The main thing is to FORGIVE anything that makes us afraid, and ask help with understanding where our love of what is good that we can do something about is greater than anything bad we can't control directly.
The best ways I know to deal with depression is to embrace it and work with it; don't fear it or that makes it worse.
To see it as a natural state of mind it goes into in order to clean out and re-examine past thoughts and actions
without a lot of distracting business or activity going on. When your mind and life slow down that is to give you space
to sit still and work through things quietly, so use that quiet downtime as an advantage to do some inner work and not
busy yourself running around with social interactions where the focus is external. Think of how factories go on shut down
to clean up and clean out for safety. or how Buddhists deliberately cease all extraneous thoughts and actions in order to meditate.
So use depressed states of mind to work through things, and eventually when this work is done and the focus is more on interacting
with others then things will shift more in that direction.

5. After a friend went on a suicide scare, and went onto forums online to counsel how to deal with that,
I developed an analogy as to what is going on with suicide to make it more workable with.
My analogy is like a robber that attacks and breaks into someone's house to rob someone of the will to live.
sometimes people survive the attack and robbery. sometimes other people die as a result of the attack as a consequence.
So you don't blame the victim of the attack, but look at what attacked them, which is an invisible force in the spirit.
So people find it easier to blame the victim who is someone they can see. or they have survivor's guilt if they lived
but their loved one died and they didn't do enough to stop the attack, or the feel they are the ones who invited the 
robber to break in not knowing it would lead to this. Just like with crimes, sometimes we blame ourselves or blame others
but it is the attacker that took that will to live.

The 3 most common causes I see of suicides
a. "losing the will to live" where the energy physicall mentally and/or spiritually drains from the person, like losing energy to a circuit and it just dies out. the solution to this is to stay connected to life energy, usually by forgiving and removing any blocks to the circuitry
on a spiritual level, so that people stay connected to the life flow and the healing life energy can push out anything negative. this is why prayers are so important for unconditional forgiveness and blessing even those we most fear persecution or hatred. that is what opens the door to unblock our connected circuitry for positive energy and thoughts and love to flow, not anger or hate or negatives.
some buddhists even teach that the less we hold onto jealous or negative thoughts toward others, we will even see an end to 'natural disaster' caused by disruptive or unequal energy flow, and which cause the world to come together in compassion
and charity; if we already practice unconditional compassion and charity we won't have to see these disasters to force us to change.
christian scripture also contains references to witnessing innocents being killed by war as moving others to repent and be humbled.
so one day war will be no more if we become so aware and connected that we prevent these things from escalating to that point.
b. intense or sudden anger where the act of killing oneself or others is to say FU that this is not acceptable
again forgiveness and being able to offset that rage where it does not consume someone's will where they go as far as to kill
c. unbearable pain either physical or emotionally that pushes people to die to end the pain and suffering as the only way out
again praying for forgiveness to remove whatever this pain is "attached" to has worked to save people from suffering suicidally.
the AA and recovery steps to overcome addiction, abuse, grief etc. all are based on forgiveness in layers of past experiences
and undoing all that emotional conditioning keeping us stuck with emotions we don't want. So the negative emotions whether anger or depression serve as means to work on ourselves to identify these thoughts and areas to remove/detach to improve ourselves.

6. as for Buddhism the point of detachment is not to walk around in a state of not caring about anything or committing to nothing

it is to be able to let go so whatever we do is unconditional and not dependent on X Y Z outcome which we cannot predict or control

So when we do let go, we should be able to see more clearly what words, thoughts, actions to choose
to remain unconditional and to feel at peace no matter what the conditions we experience in the past present or future

we do commit to what is unconditionally just and peaceful, what is consistent with wisdom and compassion for all beings
and all creation equally as ourselves.

in order to get to those points, the first step is to detach but you don't stay there that is part of the process. And yes you constantly do reality checks, and detach again from perceptions or expectations to make sure what you are doing is truly consistent and unconditionally, and not setting you up to be miserable if things don't end up a certain way you imagine in your mind.

Drifter if I may encourage you, I believe you have an advantage in being open and not knowing answers
and knowing you don't know. I trust when you find answers that make sense and are consistent with what works
for you, of course, you will follow and apply those, but not with the expectation attached of X Y Z. but because
they work in the present to allow whatever else goes on or is true in the world to take place and you are okay with that,
"no mattter what" it is or which way it goes. So you can be detached and committed to certain steps or focus,
and those do not contradict each other!

if you are afraid of death or change, just embrace and study these as you are doing here.
Those emotions will compel you to look deeper and find wisdom or insights that help you to be
effective and productive, so this is a good part and purpose of the process.

The less you fear the process, it will get easier and you can use any emotion or
stage you are going through to help you with certain steps of self-reflection or change.

So the more you see how it works, you will not be so afraid of change or unknown things in life.
The more you let go your conscience will be more open and clear so you can 'see change coming'
and you can prepare and don't have to be afraid.

So use this time to keep doing what you are doing,
and enjoy the process and what you get out of it!

Thanks for sharing and I hope you find a lot of
helpful thoughts and resources from others just by asking.

Take care and my prayers for you to find peace
and joy with this time in your life while you
embrace anything causing fearful or depressed thoughts or
feelings which are part of the spiritual process of growth.

Yours truly,
Love, Emily

two more philosophies I like:
Kahlil Gibran who said pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding
Dr. King Jr. who said men hate each other because they fear each other,
and fear each other because they don't know or understand each other, 
and don't know each other because they can't communicate
because they are separated from each other, something like that.

To love is to understand.

And there is a Bible scripture that says
Perfect Love casts out all Fear

So I say it as
Let your Love be Greater than your Fear


----------



## emilynghiem

drifter said:


> It's been almost a month since my dad died I am starting to feel bad about it.
> 
> But whenever emotion creeps up on me I tell it to go away.
> 
> I don't want to feel anything.



Hi Drifter, I tried to squeeze 6 topics in one reply.

If you prefer to feel nothing, that may be the numbness stage.
that's like a patient preferring to be on anesthesia and not feel the healing work going on, that's perfectly normal to be there. sometimes it is more merciful and not in the
best interest of the patient to see and feel everything going on with post-surgery!

When it gets to the point of healing where you need to feel where your emotions
are so you can self-assess when they have improved or changed, that is like
when a patient needs to feel when the muscle is sore so when it is healing
you can tell you are making progress. If you don't feel anything you
can't always tell where you are in the process. At some point you
may want to know instead of not feeling things at all.

Give yourself time, and yes, trust your mind to tell you
yes I am ready for this or
no I am not ready for that

If you are afraid, it is harder to read and easier to misread the signals,
so forgive yourself for going through this, and feeling what you feel which is natural,
and forgive life for changing things before you or anyone is ever ready,
so you don't attach fear to that either.

Please don't feel bad that you feel bad or mixed emotions and thoughts,
which is exactly what your process needs to be right now or else you would feel differently!

If you want, look up the 5 stages of grief and see if you are
at peace with whatever stage you are in. If you feel you are being
pushed to go to or to avoid another stage, try to pinpoint what
is causing the fear of shifting to that other stage. When you are okay with all the stages, you can shift back and forth and be okay with them, even on really bad days, at least you will know and accept that is what is happening. you will know where you are on the map.

One month is very early on. Wherever you and your dad's energy connect spiritually, any unresolved issues or commitments you may feel were left behind may bother you.

If you are planning to get married, and preparing the possibility of having children, 
that could explain a surge in the spiritual energy moving from one generation to the next and if your mind can't wrap itself around it consciously you may feel it empathetically and not know what these signals or impulses mean. in any case, pray with focus on forgiveness and love for whatever people or thoughts or memories come to your mind. So there will be more and more clarity and understanding of what things mean to you, and less fear.

Take care and I'm sorry you are going through a distressful time.
It's never fun dealing with emotions without clear instructions 
where they are coming from and where they are going.
But as thoughtful as you are, I am sure you will figure out
the best way to make sense of this and manage it that works for you!

Yours truly,
Hugs, 
Emily

P.S. another great quote
LWinston Churchill said: if you find yourself going through hell, keep going!
And I guess what I would add is that
heaven is on the other side, usually found after
going through the second side or the dirty side of the storm
that makes the first side seem easy in comparison!


----------



## AVG-JOE

drifter said:


> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death doesn't scare me in the least...it may come to me whenever it gets the urge.
> I embrace death.....looking forward to better things.......the world....life...isn't all that damn great~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must believe in existence after death
Click to expand...


Why?


----------



## Politico

I think I am going to end up in a box or an oven. Depending though a hole in the desert is a possibility.


----------



## emilynghiem

drifter said:


> Excellent example, and yes that's part of durkheims type of theory.
> 
> Durkheim iow theorizes that society causes suicide. I am still reading about it but it's such a weird concept to me because prior to that I looked at it as more of a individual psychological problem.



If you can't forgive something, you hold onto negative thoughts energies or emotions
that are attracted to or attached to the unresolved conflicts.

Then this can open the door to either jealousy, rage or depressed thoughts or other things you can't control and those can lead to situations ending in homicide, suicide etc.

So yes, there are problems in society, but the issue is whether we can forgive them or not, and it's the unforgiveness that can cause distress, disease, mental or criminal illness to manifest.


----------



## emilynghiem

drifter said:


> I have had mediumship experiences although they were not "on command" like psychic seem to be on tv talk shows.
> 
> Still, I am not sure if what is being sensed is a the grieving persons memory of someone or if a spirit actually is there communicating.
> 
> I think buddhists try to overcome attachment because we die and we can't be attached to anyone or anything, but then life seems pointless if you attach no meaning to it.



ooo, be careful drifter.
the channels used by mediums can open the door to weird energy or phenomena messing with your mind. 

If you want to have a clear spiritual connection that isn't manipulated I would go with Buddhist meditation and Christian prayer, and other prayers that focus on forgiveness, wisdom, compassion and love. Nothing fear based or trying to manipulate knowledge or
spiritism!

If you experience weird spiritual states, please call my friend Olivia to make sure there was nothing you tapped into that messed with your mind.  Her number is 713 820 0899

I would not let ANYONE I know mess with any of this spiritism without first praying for
spiritual connection and protection.  Or praying after you have been exposed to negative energy.  It is deceptively manipulative and I don't recommend that to people because it is unpredicable and can cause rashes of deaths or sudden disruptions in relationships for no foreseen reason.  So it is best to be safe and pray with someone who knows how to pray to remove that kind of energy and influence fromy your mental and spiritual space!

Please do not dabble with this stuff, even a little bit has messed some of my friends up.
One friend had about 9 people die around him within a year and people told him to stop whatever he was into because it became obvious negative energy was circulating.
Please be careful to avoid this kind of energy, and don't hesitate to call my friend
and ask for help to clear your mind and emotions of any confused or mixed thoughts.


----------



## Dabs

drifter said:


> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death doesn't scare me in the least...it may come to me whenever it gets the urge.
> I embrace death.....looking forward to better things.......the world....life...isn't all that damn great~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must believe in existence after death
Click to expand...


Not necessarily.....I just believe death will be a welcome relief to the shit I had endured in life.
I feel I have done what was expected of me....and so, when my time comes...I am ready......don't have to worry about me fighting to go.....~LoL~


----------



## Michelle420

Dabs said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dabs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Death doesn't scare me in the least...it may come to me whenever it gets the urge.
> I embrace death.....looking forward to better things.......the world....life...isn't all that damn great~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must believe in existence after death
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not necessarily.....I just believe death will be a welcome relief to the shit I had endured in life.
> I feel I have done what was expected of me....and so, when my time comes...I am ready......don't have to worry about me fighting to go.....~LoL~
Click to expand...


Ok, so do you believe in existence after death?


----------



## Michelle420

emilynghiem said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have had mediumship experiences although they were not "on command" like psychic seem to be on tv talk shows.
> 
> Still, I am not sure if what is being sensed is a the grieving persons memory of someone or if a spirit actually is there communicating.
> 
> I think buddhists try to overcome attachment because we die and we can't be attached to anyone or anything, but then life seems pointless if you attach no meaning to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ooo, be careful drifter.
> the channels used by mediums can open the door to weird energy or phenomena messing with your mind.
> 
> If you want to have a clear spiritual connection that isn't manipulated I would go with Buddhist meditation and Christian prayer, and other prayers that focus on forgiveness, wisdom, compassion and love. Nothing fear based or trying to manipulate knowledge or
> spiritism!
> 
> If you experience weird spiritual states, please call my friend Olivia to make sure there was nothing you tapped into that messed with your mind.  Her number is 713 820 0899
> 
> I would not let ANYONE I know mess with any of this spiritism without first praying for
> spiritual connection and protection.  Or praying after you have been exposed to negative energy.  It is deceptively manipulative and I don't recommend that to people because it is unpredicable and can cause rashes of deaths or sudden disruptions in relationships for no foreseen reason.  So it is best to be safe and pray with someone who knows how to pray to remove that kind of energy and influence fromy your mental and spiritual space!
> 
> Please do not dabble with this stuff, even a little bit has messed some of my friends up.
> One friend had about 9 people die around him within a year and people told him to stop whatever he was into because it became obvious negative energy was circulating.
> Please be careful to avoid this kind of energy, and don't hesitate to call my friend
> and ask for help to clear your mind and emotions of any confused or mixed thoughts.
Click to expand...


Nothing like that Emily, more like synchronicity just like this thread. Here death weighed on my mind our of the blue and then within 3 weeks my pet of many years and my dad both died.

Things like that happen to me where a though comes to mind and in an instance there is a heavy meaning to it that I look back at


----------



## Michelle420

emilynghiem said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent example, and yes that's part of durkheims type of theory.
> 
> Durkheim iow theorizes that society causes suicide. I am still reading about it but it's such a weird concept to me because prior to that I looked at it as more of a individual psychological problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't forgive something, you hold onto negative thoughts energies or emotions
> that are attracted to or attached to the unresolved conflicts.
> 
> Then this can open the door to either jealousy, rage or depressed thoughts or other things you can't control and those can lead to situations ending in homicide, suicide etc.
> 
> So yes, there are problems in society, but the issue is whether we can forgive them or not, and it's the unforgiveness that can cause distress, disease, mental or criminal illness to manifest.
Click to expand...




> Fatalistic suicide (pre-industrial)
> When society restricts the individual too much
> Durkheim thought this type was less important
> in modern society
>  But historically interesting, e.g. high suicide
> rates among slaves





> Generally suicide has some relationship with
> social rules or values and the individual
>  The causes of suicide are not individual
>  Suicide is structural in origin





http://www.colchsfc.ac.uk/sociology/documents/durkheims_study_of_suicide.pdf


----------



## Michelle420

Politico said:


> I think I am going to end up in a box or an oven. Depending though a hole in the desert is a possibility.



How do you feel about that thought?


----------



## Michelle420

emilynghiem said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's been almost a month since my dad died I am starting to feel bad about it.
> 
> But whenever emotion creeps up on me I tell it to go away.
> 
> I don't want to feel anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Drifter, I tried to squeeze 6 topics in one reply.
> 
> If you prefer to feel nothing, that may be the numbness stage.
> that's like a patient preferring to be on anesthesia and not feel the healing work going on, that's perfectly normal to be there. sometimes it is more merciful and not in the
> best interest of the patient to see and feel everything going on with post-surgery!
> 
> When it gets to the point of healing where you need to feel where your emotions
> are so you can self-assess when they have improved or changed, that is like
> when a patient needs to feel when the muscle is sore so when it is healing
> you can tell you are making progress. If you don't feel anything you
> can't always tell where you are in the process. At some point you
> may want to know instead of not feeling things at all.
> 
> Give yourself time, and yes, trust your mind to tell you
> yes I am ready for this or
> no I am not ready for that
> 
> If you are afraid, it is harder to read and easier to misread the signals,
> so forgive yourself for going through this, and feeling what you feel which is natural,
> and forgive life for changing things before you or anyone is ever ready,
> so you don't attach fear to that either.
> 
> Please don't feel bad that you feel bad or mixed emotions and thoughts,
> which is exactly what your process needs to be right now or else you would feel differently!
> 
> If you want, look up the 5 stages of grief and see if you are
> at peace with whatever stage you are in. If you feel you are being
> pushed to go to or to avoid another stage, try to pinpoint what
> is causing the fear of shifting to that other stage. When you are okay with all the stages, you can shift back and forth and be okay with them, even on really bad days, at least you will know and accept that is what is happening. you will know where you are on the map.
> 
> One month is very early on. Wherever you and your dad's energy connect spiritually, any unresolved issues or commitments you may feel were left behind may bother you.
> 
> If you are planning to get married, and preparing the possibility of having children,
> that could explain a surge in the spiritual energy moving from one generation to the next and if your mind can't wrap itself around it consciously you may feel it empathetically and not know what these signals or impulses mean. in any case, pray with focus on forgiveness and love for whatever people or thoughts or memories come to your mind. So there will be more and more clarity and understanding of what things mean to you, and less fear.
> 
> Take care and I'm sorry you are going through a distressful time.
> It's never fun dealing with emotions without clear instructions
> where they are coming from and where they are going.
> But as thoughtful as you are, I am sure you will figure out
> the best way to make sense of this and manage it that works for you!
> 
> Yours truly,
> Hugs,
> Emily
> 
> P.S. another great quote
> LWinston Churchill said: if you find yourself going through hell, keep going!
> And I guess what I would add is that
> heaven is on the other side, usually found after
> going through the second side or the dirty side of the storm
> that makes the first side seem easy in comparison!
Click to expand...


Interpretation
1  Denial	Denial is a conscious or unconscious refusal to accept facts, information, reality, etc., relating to the situation concerned. Its a defense mechanism and perfectly natural. Some people can become locked in this stage when dealing with a traumatic change that can be ignored. Death of course is not particularly easy to avoid or evade indefinitely.

2  Anger	Anger can manifest in different ways. People dealing with emotional upset can be angry with themselves, and/or with others, especially those close to them. Knowing this helps keep detached and non-judgemental when experiencing the anger of someone who is very upset.

3  Bargaining	Traditionally the bargaining stage for people facing death can involve attempting to bargain with whatever God the person believes in. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise. For example Can we still be friends?.. when facing a break-up. Bargaining rarely provides a sustainable solution, especially if its a matter of life or death.

4  Depression	Also referred to as preparatory grieving. In a way its the dress rehearsal or the practice run for the aftermath although this stage means different things depending on whom it involves. Its a sort of acceptance with emotional attachment. Its natural to feel sadness and regret, fear, uncertainty, etc. It shows that the person has at least begun to accept the reality.

5  Acceptance	Again this stage definitely varies according to the persons situation, although broadly it is an indication that there is some emotional detachment and objectivity. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must necessarily pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief.

FIVE STAGES OF GRIEF | EKR Foundation


----------



## emilynghiem

drifter said:


> Nothing like that Emily, more like synchronicity just like this thread. Here death weighed on my mind our of the blue and then within 3 weeks my pet of many years and my dad both died.
> 
> Things like that happen to me where a though comes to mind and in an instance there is a heavy meaning to it that I look back at



I think you mean something different, not about mediums as I thought.
I would call this "empathy" or "empath" where this is natural spiritual connection.

I have had many experiences where I picked up thoughts and knowledge of
people without conscious communication and even being separated in time or space.

I see it like radio waves where some people can pick up signateals from a distance,
while the message isn't completely clear until it is fine tuned and closer in range.

I have written a collection of letters to the editor published in the local paper
that were composed by reading the signals in advance of what was going
to connect with the mind of the editor to commit to print. I usually knew in advance
which lines were going to be edited, and not as I wrote in the draft, and which
lines would be kept as is. So this isn't coming from me, it is picking up the message
or signal that is already going to be, and writing it down as clearly as I can decipher it.
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

I think this is from my "Thomas Jefferson" karma or the male voice I pick up
which harps about church-state issues and Constitutional law blah blah blah.
When I read TJ letters, I recognize that is the same voice range or frequency that
I tap into when I write about that stuff. It could be some other muse or founding father,
but I call that male voice Thomas and it could be like Thomas More or Aquinas, but
I feel it is more like a male authority speaking and I am hearing the meaning in my conscience (not any sounds or voices) and writing that down like transcription or translation. 

This is what I mean by being connected with soulmates who may be separated in time.
We are not each other, we do not incarnate per se, but mutual karma or spiritual content and purpose may be shared by conscience and we can motivate or influence each other.


----------



## Skull Pilot

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



Plenty of things happen after we die.

[youtube]GSDCiOW81mk#![/youtube]


----------



## emilynghiem

drifter said:


> Fatalistic suicide (pre-industrial)
> &#8226;When society restricts the individual too much
> &#8226;Durkheim thought this type was less important
> in modern society
> &#8226; But historically interesting, e.g. high suicide
> rates among slaves
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &#8226;Generally suicide has some relationship with
> social rules or values and the individual
> &#8226; The causes of suicide are not individual
> &#8226; Suicide is structural in origin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.colchsfc.ac.uk/sociology/documents/durkheim&#8217;s_study_of_suicide.pdf
Click to expand...


The best way I can reconcile this is by pointing out
that UNFORGIVENESS of conflict DOES cause a "disruption in the
connection" between the person and other people in society
where the person does not feel he or she can get help any other way.

I would agree with that assessment.
However, the correction is not just about changing the social relations;
but to address the UNFORGIVENESS so we CAN correct the social disconnect.

If you look at cases where people didn't kill themselves, facing the same issues or social conditions,
their capacity to forgive allowed them to sustain while corrections are pursued.
So forgiveness would solve both the problems of the adverse or disconnected conditions
AND the reaction by suicide (or also homicide and bullying and other things caused by unforgiveness projected forward). 


Hi Drifter: i guess I would distinguish the 
TRIGGER social conditions
vs.
the person's RESPONSE by suicide.  
You can't just blame the TRIGGER as the cause.

There were recent events even today where a woman killed herself after losing hope after suffering years of pain after an acid attack.
But there were other victims of attacks who didn't commit suicide. 

And we don't know how many victims of trafficking or sex slavery or sweatshop abuses are killing themselves if we don't know where they are in the first place.

Today there are much more common incidents of people dying by suicide after giving up hope of overcoming ADDICTION. So that is both a social issue AND an individual cause.

I think this is like the analogy about the person who gets drunk 
after drinking "wine and water" one day, "beer and water" the next day,
and scotch run gin, etc and water on others day, so by the first
impression you may think the water was the common factor; but in fact,
it isn't the water but the alcohol that is the common ingredient causing the drunkeness.

I am saying the common factor is UNFORGIVENESS
of something, whether internal or external TRIGGER.
If you forgive that TRIGGER then maybe you won't kill yourself or someone else.

Here someone can experience slavery or drug addiction or acid attacks,
and if that person has help to FORGIVE the oppressive inescapable conditions
and still live, then they DON'T have to resort to killing themselves.

And on the other hand, there are people I know who died by suicide
that weren't caused by social conditions but emotional conflicts like
a boy who got in a fight with his mom and shot himself out of anger.
Again, unforgiven conflict.

Drifter I think if you look at ALL cases of homicide, bullying, suicide, etc.
you will find the common factor is UNFORGIVENESS of something
either conscious or unconscious, external or internal, that person
projects in acts that are retributive or harm someone or something in response.

You will see BOTH social and individual triggers.
And you will also see cases where these SAME triggers,
even worse cases of them, 
were forgiven and did NOT lead someone to homicide or suicide.


----------



## Michelle420

emilynghiem said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fatalistic suicide (pre-industrial)
> *When society restricts the individual too much
> Durkheim thought this type was less important
> in modern society
>  But historically interesting, e.g. high suicide
> rates among slaves*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Generally suicide has some relationship with
> social rules or values and the individual
>  The causes of suicide are not individual
>  Suicide is structural in origin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> http://www.colchsfc.ac.uk/sociology/documents/durkheims_study_of_suicide.pdf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The best way I can reconcile this is by pointing out
> that UNFORGIVENESS of conflict DOES cause a "disruption in the
> connection" between the person and other people in society
> where the person does not feel he or she can get help any other way.
> 
> I would agree with that assessment.
> However, the correction is not just about changing the social relations;
> but to address the UNFORGIVENESS so we CAN correct the social disconnect.
> 
> If you look at cases where people didn't kill themselves, facing the same issues or social conditions,
> their capacity to forgive allowed them to sustain while corrections are pursued.
> So forgiveness would solve both the problems of the adverse or disconnected conditions
> AND the reaction by suicide (or also homicide and bullying and other things caused by unforgiveness projected forward).
> 
> 
> Hi Drifter: i guess I would distinguish the
> TRIGGER social conditions
> vs.
> the person's RESPONSE by suicide.
> You can't just blame the TRIGGER as the cause.
> 
> There were recent events even today where a woman killed herself after losing hope after suffering years of pain after an acid attack.
> But there were other victims of attacks who didn't commit suicide.
> 
> And we don't know how many victims of trafficking or sex slavery or sweatshop abuses are killing themselves if we don't know where they are in the first place.
> 
> Today there are much more common incidents of people dying by suicide after giving up hope of overcoming ADDICTION. So that is both a social issue AND an individual cause.
> 
> I think this is like the analogy about the person who gets drunk
> after drinking "wine and water" one day, "beer and water" the next day,
> and scotch run gin, etc and water on others day, so by the first
> impression you may think the water was the common factor; but in fact,
> it isn't the water but the alcohol that is the common ingredient causing the drunkeness.
> 
> I am saying the common factor is UNFORGIVENESS
> of something, whether internal or external TRIGGER.
> If you forgive that TRIGGER then maybe you won't kill yourself or someone else.
> 
> Here someone can experience slavery or drug addiction or acid attacks,
> and if that person has help to FORGIVE the oppressive inescapable conditions
> and still live, then they DON'T have to resort to killing themselves.
> 
> And on the other hand, there are people I know who died by suicide
> that weren't caused by social conditions but emotional conflicts like
> a boy who got in a fight with his mom and shot himself out of anger.
> Again, unforgiven conflict.
> 
> Drifter I think if you look at ALL cases of homicide, bullying, suicide, etc.
> you will find the common factor is UNFORGIVENESS of something
> either conscious or unconscious, external or internal, that person
> projects in acts that are retributive or harm someone or something in response.
> 
> You will see BOTH social and individual triggers.
> And you will also see cases where these SAME triggers,
> even worse cases of them,
> were forgiven and did NOT lead someone to homicide or suicide.
Click to expand...


Sure, I can see where forgiveness aids one to resolve many issues.

However, you can forgive a lot but if you are repeatedly abused or ostrichized in society, forgiveness still cannot replace the inability to socially integrate.There are those people who no matter how hard they try do not fit in. 

But Durkheims research on suicide provided mostly the insight into how society as a whole causes the majority of those who attempt and succeed to commit suicide. 

If you have an interest you should read his research.

Durkheims study on suicide was the causes and so what he found was it was issues in society that caused a person to feel no hope, even when at first it might seem to be one person or incident underneath that it was the way society constructs a role being played out towards the human being that feels hopeless.


----------



## Politico

drifter said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I am going to end up in a box or an oven. Depending though a hole in the desert is a possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you feel about that thought?
Click to expand...


Which part?


----------



## Michelle420

Politico said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Politico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I am going to end up in a box or an oven. Depending though a hole in the desert is a possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you feel about that thought?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which part?
Click to expand...


Any part you want to elaborate on.


----------



## Politico

Well dying a natural death would be preferable to anyone lol.


----------



## Michelle420

Politico said:


> Well dying a natural death would be preferable to anyone lol.



But you don't think you are going to? 

Were you just kidden


----------



## emilynghiem

drifter said:


> Sure, I can see where forgiveness aids one to resolve many issues.
> 
> However, you can forgive a lot but if you are repeatedly abused or ostrichized in society, forgiveness still cannot replace the inability to socially integrate.There are those people who no matter how hard they try do not fit in.
> 
> But Durkheims research on suicide provided mostly the insight into how society as a whole causes the majority of those who attempt and succeed to commit suicide.
> 
> If you have an interest you should read his research.
> 
> Durkheims study on suicide was the causes and so what he found was it was issues in society that caused a person to feel no hope, even when at first it might seem to be one person or incident underneath that it was the way society constructs a role being played out towards the human being that feels hopeless.



Yes, Drifter especially where I am right now with trying to save the historic district where I live, we have a whole history of forgiveness being abused to is keep doing the wrong. so forgiveness does not mean to not do anything, it means to ASK with forgiveness to CHANGE and CORRECT what is going wrong. So I should emphasize what ean forgiveness and correction in the same process. Too familiar with people thinking you can just forgive and let things keep happening, that is what went too far in my district: the church community would just stop asking for change and pray to God and wait for something to change, the opposition pushing destruction would take advantage of this by continuing their agenda until something stops them. So the mess continued because people forgave it and did not do anything drastic enough. I am still asking for more help, so I constantly have to ask in a state of forgiveness so it reaches people in the right spirit and opens doors for connections.

I don't agree with this abuse of forgiveness going on either,
but I have to forgive it or I would not be able to function.

And YES Drifter I did threaten to prepare a hunger strike to publicize
how unacceptable this bullying is, that has driven people to die of depression
when they were evicted from their community which is their support.

So I still am preparing to do more outreach and ask if this is what 
I need to do or is there a better way to promote solutions to fix this?

Totally have to say that in a state of forgiveness or else it causes more division and conflict.
Can't wait to connect with the right people to put a team together cohesively so we can operate in a CONNECTED way not all divided and scattered where we are being run over!


----------



## UKRider

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



A one use light switch.







There doesn't have to be a point. That's the point.


----------



## Michelle420

UKRider said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one use light switch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There doesn't have to be a point. That's the point.
Click to expand...


That could be said about anything


----------



## UKRider

drifter said:


> UKRider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A one use light switch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There doesn't have to be a point. That's the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That could be said about anything
Click to expand...


But I'm saying it in the context of a meaning to life.   I'm rather simplistic in my thoughts of life. I see life as an opposite of death.  The meaning of death is the end of life. Then the meaning to life is the end of death.

We have yet to find that but we're looking all over the place. Life everlasting. So, if we ever find a way to live forever, we will understand the true meaning of life, which is not to die.


----------



## Unkotare

You're funny. You should take this act to Vegas.


----------



## Michelle420

UKRider said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UKRider said:
> 
> 
> 
> A one use light switch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There doesn't have to be a point. That's the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That could be said about anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But I'm saying it in the context of a meaning to life.   I'm rather simplistic in my thoughts of life. I see life as an opposite of death.  The meaning of death is the end of life. Then the meaning to life is the end of death.
> 
> We have yet to find that but we're looking all over the place. Life everlasting. So, if we ever find a way to live forever, we will understand the true meaning of life, which is not to die.
Click to expand...


I get your meaning. 

It's still painful to experience death when people you love die, so I think wanting a meaning for life must be a human yearning or something.


----------



## dblack

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



We continue to exist in the minds of those we influenced while we were alive. Even moreso in the minds of those whom we loved and loved us back.


----------



## Michelle420

dblack said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We continue to exist in the minds of those we influenced while we were alive. Even moreso in the minds of those whom we loved and loved us back.
Click to expand...


What about if you were estranged from someone important in your life and then they die?


----------



## dblack

drifter said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We continue to exist in the minds of those we influenced while we were alive. Even moreso in the minds of those whom we loved and loved us back.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about if you were estranged from someone important in your life and then they die?
Click to expand...


Whatever is left in their minds as the salient portion of "you" survives. The most compelling notion of what a "soul" is, in my view, falls along the lines of "mind as meme". I find the works of Daniel Dennett and Douglas Hofstadter most compelling in this realm. The human soul is something akin to an algorithm - encoded information that maintains a concept of 'self'. That can live on independent of a specific brain or body.


----------



## Michelle420

dblack said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dblack said:
> 
> 
> 
> We continue to exist in the minds of those we influenced while we were alive. Even moreso in the minds of those whom we loved and loved us back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about if you were estranged from someone important in your life and then they die?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whatever is left in their minds as the salient portion of "you" survives. The most compelling notion of what a "soul" is, in my view, falls along the lines of "mind as meme". I find the works of Daniel Dennett and Douglas Hofstadter most compelling in this realm. The human soul is something akin to an algorithm - encoded information that maintains a concept of 'self'. That can live on independent of a specific brain or body.
Click to expand...


reboot=reincarnate ?


----------



## UKRider

drifter said:


> UKRider said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> That could be said about anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm saying it in the context of a meaning to life.   I'm rather simplistic in my thoughts of life. I see life as an opposite of death.  The meaning of death is the end of life. Then the meaning to life is the end of death.
> 
> We have yet to find that but we're looking all over the place. Life everlasting. So, if we ever find a way to live forever, we will understand the true meaning of life, which is not to die.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I get your meaning.
> 
> It's still painful to experience death when people you love die, so I think wanting a meaning for life must be a human yearning or something.
Click to expand...


The death of a loved one's an entirely different thing. That's a loss of my connection to the life of one I love. It's the loss of their life and not their death that I mourn.  

When the loneliness of the loss comes, I combat it with remembrances of their lives and what they meant to me.

If we lived forever I somehow doubt making a meaning of our lives would hold the same importance.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

drifter said:


> Obviously a pet is different then a person, I have had to deal with death of my relative in october and throughout the year just themes of death.
> 
> Since we are all going to die , I guess the only thing to do is live and give while I can.



What do you mean, "obviously" a pet is different than a person?

I have a dog whose death will be more devastating to me than the deaths of most people I know.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

I guess I'm one of the only people who fears death.  I can't believe how many people say they don't fear death!  Oh, they say they worry about how they're going to die and whether they will suffer, but they don't fear death itself.

Good grief.  I fear death.  Mainly because of the unknown quality of it.  Also because of those I will leave behind who need me.  I think it would be easier to die if all your loved ones have already died before you.

I've also noticed that many of these people who say they don't fear death get mighty scared-looking when they think they're facing it.  

Even though I fear it, I recognize death is as natural as birth.  But just because it's natural doesn't mean it's not scary as hell.


----------



## Dajjal

Daniel Dennett says he has solved the mind body problem, and "mind is brain".

I say he has no idea what he is talking about as my many years of experience in spiritualist churches tells me that we do survive death. Therefore mind is stored in a higher plane of existence and it is simply being channeled down into the brain. Through the chakas in the etheric counterpart.

According to the occult we have several higher bodies, like the astral body, and the mental body, and the soul or causual body. It is in the soul body that consciousness is stored. The soul body is formless and infinitely expandable, and it contains the memories of all past lives.


----------



## Michelle420

Kooshdakhaa said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously a pet is different then a person, I have had to deal with death of my relative in october and throughout the year just themes of death.
> 
> Since we are all going to die , I guess the only thing to do is live and give while I can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "obviously" a pet is different than a person?
> 
> I have a dog whose death will be more devastating to me than the deaths of most people I know.
Click to expand...


Did you read the entire thread? 

My Pet died but then 2 days after my pet died my dad died and I posted about it in this thread.

Both were upsetting deaths but my dad's death felt worse.

I also said I was afraid of death.


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

drifter said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously a pet is different then a person, I have had to deal with death of my relative in october and throughout the year just themes of death.
> 
> Since we are all going to die , I guess the only thing to do is live and give while I can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "obviously" a pet is different than a person?
> 
> I have a dog whose death will be more devastating to me than the deaths of most people I know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did you read the entire thread?
> 
> My Pet died but then 2 days after my pet died my dad died and I posted about it in this thread.
> 
> Both were upsetting deaths but my dad's death felt worse.
> 
> I also said I was afraid of death.
Click to expand...


Well, that's how you felt, it's not necessarily how everyone would feel.  All I'm saying is that if by "obviously a pet is different than a person" you mean that pets are loved less than people, that is not always the case.


----------



## Michelle420

Kooshdakhaa said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean, "obviously" a pet is different than a person?
> 
> I have a dog whose death will be more devastating to me than the deaths of most people I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the entire thread?
> 
> My Pet died but then 2 days after my pet died my dad died and I posted about it in this thread.
> 
> Both were upsetting deaths but my dad's death felt worse.
> 
> I also said I was afraid of death.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, that's how you felt, it's not necessarily how everyone would feel.  All I'm saying is that if by "obviously a pet is different than a person" you mean that pets are loved less than people, that is not always the case.
Click to expand...


There are no absolutes. 

You also made a remark about nobody saying they were afraid of death, and I had stated I was afraid of it from the very beginning of this thread.

Of course it is not "always" the case, but more often then not people love their kids or parents more then their pets.


----------



## emilynghiem

UKRider said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UKRider said:
> 
> 
> 
> A one use light switch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There doesn't have to be a point. That's the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That could be said about anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But I'm saying it in the context of a meaning to life.   I'm rather simplistic in my thoughts of life. I see life as an opposite of death.  The meaning of death is the end of life. Then the meaning to life is the end of death.
> 
> We have yet to find that but we're looking all over the place. Life everlasting. So, if we ever find a way to live forever, we will understand the true meaning of life, which is not to die.
Click to expand...


Does this account for the difference between physical life that has an end
and spiritual life that may continue to go on?

What about death as meaning a spiritual change.
Doesn't that explain both levels of life changes, whether physical mental or spiritual?

People can go through a spiritual death and not a physical one.
Do you account for both kinds of "spiritual change"? Or do you call it something else?


----------



## Kooshdakhaa

drifter said:


> Kooshdakhaa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the entire thread?
> 
> My Pet died but then 2 days after my pet died my dad died and I posted about it in this thread.
> 
> Both were upsetting deaths but my dad's death felt worse.
> 
> I also said I was afraid of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's how you felt, it's not necessarily how everyone would feel.  All I'm saying is that if by "obviously a pet is different than a person" you mean that pets are loved less than people, that is not always the case.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no absolutes.
> 
> You also made a remark about nobody saying they were afraid of death, and I had stated I was afraid of it from the very beginning of this thread.
> 
> Of course it is not "always" the case, but more often then not people love their kids or parents more then their pets.
Click to expand...


What I said was:



> I guess I'm one of the only people who fears death. I can't believe how many people say they don't fear death!



I worded it that way specifically to allow for the fact that SOME people do admit to being afraid of death.  But I've noticed that a whole lot of people claim to have no fear of it.  Not ALL...but a lot of them.


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## jan

> 144000 chosen people will ascend as spirits to heaven to help God and Jesus run the restored Earth. Jesus will be King answering only to God.



A common misinterpretation of the Bible.  Revelation chapter 7 states that 144,000 will be chosen from the tribes of Isreal...in other words from the Jewish tradition of the old testament.  Not that 144,000 will be the total of the saved.

In Revelations 7:9 the text goes on to state that " After this I had a vision of a great multitude , *which no one could count, from every people, race, nation and tongue and they cried out "Salvation comes from our God, who is seated on the throne, and from the Lamb" (being Jesus Christ).*

These mentioned above represent those who are saved by Jesus Christ through grace.


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## Dajjal

The spirit world teaches that after we die our conciousness expands. For one thing we are no longer using the physical brain. Added to that we begin to move away from the personality of our last incarnation, to a broader mind free of our earthly conditioning.

We find ourselves in a spirit world that matches our stage of spiritual evolution, and for most of us that will be a very pleasant experience of a far better world than this one.


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## AVG-JOE

Caroljo said:


> But no, i can't prove anything.
> 
> We do not live in this world, then just die and there's nothing else.  Anyone that believes this is crazy.  What happens to our souls then?  SOMETHING goes on after death......



I appreciate your hope.  

 Spiritual Possibilities!!



I still think that any Monkey who tells me that they *know* what happens when death comes knockin' is the Monkey who's deceived.

They call death 'The Great Unknown' for a damn good reason.


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## Michelle420

Had another death in my family, since oct my cousin, my dad and now my sister.

I feel like I am losing my mind the pain so excruciating. I can hardly take it.

I feel like Im walking in a dream. Nothing feels real.


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## Dajjal

drifter said:


> Had another death in my family, since oct my cousin, my dad and now my sister.
> 
> I feel like I am losing my mind the pain so excruciating. I can hardly take it.
> 
> I feel like Im walking in a dream. Nothing feels real.



Sorry to hear of your losses. You might try going to a spiritualist church, as you may get comforting messages from your relatives. I attended churches for a number of years and had many evidential messages from my grandparents who had passed over.

You might also have spiritual healing, which is normally free of charge in most churches, This might give you some upliftment because mental suffering clouds the aura, and healing clears the negative energies away.


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## jan

drifter said:


> Had another death in my family, since oct my cousin, my dad and now my sister.
> 
> I feel like I am losing my mind the pain so excruciating. I can hardly take it.
> 
> I feel like Im walking in a dream. Nothing feels real.



I'm sorry to hear of your losses drifter.


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## Michelle420

Thanks, I feel like Im going to lose my mind.  I see people smiling, doing there daily routines and I want to leave my own skin, my heart hurts I feel all alone.


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## Michelle420

I start crying randomely and can't seem to stop even though I know its making people uncomfortable


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## HUGGY

drifter said:


> Had another death in my family, since oct my cousin, my dad and now my sister.
> 
> I feel like I am losing my mind the pain so excruciating. I can hardly take it.
> 
> I feel like Im walking in a dream. Nothing feels real.



Take my advice and work through your pain as quickly as possible.  If there is one lesson to take from all of the death and loss of the past few months it is that you do not know how little time you have left.  Please free yourself to live whatever time you have left as openly and enjoyably as possible.


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## Michelle420

One of my relatives was running down my sister verbally (my sister had a drinking problem) I could hardly take it. She just died and it felt like my relative was stabbing me in the heart just relentless.

I got into a fight with them and the family kicked me out now Im in a hotel in philly.

I don;t think I can forgive them ever !


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## MaryL

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



The first four questions are moot. What is the point of mortality? . It is imposed upon us with out our permission before our birth. We haven't a choice. Anyone here chose to be born, or their sexuality, race, their religion  or their IQ?  When I say it is imposed on us, I mean it is random and impersonal. None of us can say if there is a transcendent meaning because none of us has transcended this mortal coil and have proof. The point of this board is we debate the improvable.


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## AVG-JOE

Could that thought be extrapolated to say that had your parents never met, *you* would have been born to others?

I tend to think that my software is just as much a product of my parents 'knowing'  each other as my hardware.


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## dblack

AVG-JOE said:


> Could that thought be extrapolated to say that had your parents never met, *you* would have been born to others?
> 
> I tend to think that my software is just as much a product of my parents 'knowing'  each other as my hardware.



Here's the deal. "We" are software. So is "God". 

Seriously, human souls are a new kind of lifeform. We exist as on 'top' of these monkey bodies we inhabit, but our 'selves', are conscious souls, are essentially self-aware information systems. And the gods that we dream up and share amongst our fellow self-aware software systems are just as real as we are. 

Grok that!


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## dblack

drifter said:


> One of my relatives was running down my sister verbally (my sister had a drinking problem) I could hardly take it. She just died and it felt like my relative was stabbing me in the heart just relentless.
> 
> I got into a fight with them and the family kicked me out now Im in a hotel in philly.
> 
> I don;t think I can forgive them ever !



Damn that is rough. I'm in Philly. If you need help, company, whatever - let me know!


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## petro

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> What's the point of living if we just die.



Questions pondered since the dawn of humanity. 
My views(beliefs)...
Not religious as far as organized religion, but do have some spiritual beliefs taken from a variety of religions. My hope is that there is some plane of existence after we leave this world. It would be a shame if our memories and perspectives about what we observed during life wasn't somehow stored or kept. In a sense everything recycles in the universe right down to the atomic level, why not our memories?

I only fear a bad(senseless) or suffering death. 

As far as the point in living, I enjoy life regardless of whether times are good or bad. Even if our existence is just a random event I still see it as a gift.

No one has the answers, but everyone has a belief system including Atheists. The view that you just die and there is nothing after life, IS a belief as none of us really know.


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## HUGGY

drifter said:


> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> *What's the point of living if we just die*.



There is none.  If you have any cool stuff, property(waterfront preffered) or money not assigned to anyone in particular I would be honored to take good care of these things in your absence.  PM me and I'll help you make the transfer arrangements.


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## Michelle420

HUGGY said:


> drifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a religious belief about death?
> 
> If you are not religious do you still think we exist in a different form after we die here?
> 
> Are you afraid of death?
> 
> Do you think loved ones can still communicate after death or do they just move onto another plane of existence, or just dead?
> 
> *What's the point of living if we just die*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is none.  If you have any cool stuff, property(waterfront preffered) or money not assigned to anyone in particular I would be honored to take good care of these things in your absence.  PM me and I'll help you make the transfer arrangements.
Click to expand...


It was just a philosophical question, but given that I lost my cousin in oct, my dad in jan and my sister just two weeks ago the thread is just painful to read now.


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