# If handguns were banned and confiscated, how did this criminal shoot the victim in the face?



## 2aguy

Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....

Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads


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## harmonica

pulling the trigger


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## H B Lowrie

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn, Australia can manage Australia.


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## Tommy Tainant

2aguy said:


> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads


It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year. 

The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.

Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.


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## HenryBHough

Tommy Tainant said:


> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.



Gun control doesn't even work in dictatorships.  Like Britain will become once Red Jeremy is PM.


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## 2aguy

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
Click to expand...



You are confusing murder with other gun crime.   You don't have to pull the trigger on a gun to end a life if you rob, rape or brutalize someone.    Gun crime is increasing in Australia and Britain but their murder rates are not going up.....but they have more crime using illegal guns...

Gun control isn't working if there are more illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals....I have shown you the articles from British and Australian news sources that state that criminals are getting more guns illegally.  That means their gun control laws are not working on criminals.   You want to mix murder with gun control, and that doesn't work.  A criminal with an illegal gun doesn't have to pull the trigger.  You and your anti-gun buddies seem to think that a criminal with a gun must pull the trigger and end the life of the victim...that isn't the case.

And as I keep showing you...... more guns does not equal more crime......  26 years of experience in the United States shows that this is true....more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down 49%...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%.   Britain banned and confiscated guns...you gun crime rate in London went up 42%....across England and Wales in 2016 23%, in 2017 16%....it is increasing, not going down... the British police have stated they cannot stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, which is exactly what Gun Control Failure is.....a failure to stop criminals from getting illegal guns....


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## Tommy Tainant

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing murder with other gun crime.   You don't have to pull the trigger on a gun to end a life if you rob, rape or brutalize someone.    Gun crime is increasing in Australia and Britain but their murder rates are not going up.....but they have more crime using illegal guns...
> 
> Gun control isn't working if there are more illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals....I have shown you the articles from British and Australian news sources that state that criminals are getting more guns illegally.  That means their gun control laws are not working on criminals.   You want to mix murder with gun control, and that doesn't work.  A criminal with an illegal gun doesn't have to pull the trigger.  You and your anti-gun buddies seem to think that a criminal with a gun must pull the trigger and end the life of the victim...that isn't the case.
> 
> And as I keep showing you...... more guns does not equal more crime......  26 years of experience in the United States shows that this is true....more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down 49%...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%.   Britain banned and confiscated guns...you gun crime rate in London went up 42%....across England and Wales in 2016 23%, in 2017 16%....it is increasing, not going down... the British police have stated they cannot stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, which is exactly what Gun Control Failure is.....a failure to stop criminals from getting illegal guns....
Click to expand...

Oh Lord. The obvious assumption is that if we adopt crazy US laws then our murder rates will multiply five fold. We would have to be on crack to want that.


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## 2aguy

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing murder with other gun crime.   You don't have to pull the trigger on a gun to end a life if you rob, rape or brutalize someone.    Gun crime is increasing in Australia and Britain but their murder rates are not going up.....but they have more crime using illegal guns...
> 
> Gun control isn't working if there are more illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals....I have shown you the articles from British and Australian news sources that state that criminals are getting more guns illegally.  That means their gun control laws are not working on criminals.   You want to mix murder with gun control, and that doesn't work.  A criminal with an illegal gun doesn't have to pull the trigger.  You and your anti-gun buddies seem to think that a criminal with a gun must pull the trigger and end the life of the victim...that isn't the case.
> 
> And as I keep showing you...... more guns does not equal more crime......  26 years of experience in the United States shows that this is true....more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down 49%...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%.   Britain banned and confiscated guns...you gun crime rate in London went up 42%....across England and Wales in 2016 23%, in 2017 16%....it is increasing, not going down... the British police have stated they cannot stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, which is exactly what Gun Control Failure is.....a failure to stop criminals from getting illegal guns....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh Lord. The obvious assumption is that if we adopt crazy US laws then our murder rates will multiply five fold. We would have to be on crack to want that.
Click to expand...



Our gun murder rate went down 49% as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years...your gun crime rate went up 42% in London, your capitol.....on an island.  Your police state they can't stop the flow of illegal guns into your country, and gun crime is going up, not down....you are doing it wrong, and it is going to get worse for you.


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## Tommy Tainant

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing murder with other gun crime.   You don't have to pull the trigger on a gun to end a life if you rob, rape or brutalize someone.    Gun crime is increasing in Australia and Britain but their murder rates are not going up.....but they have more crime using illegal guns...
> 
> Gun control isn't working if there are more illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals....I have shown you the articles from British and Australian news sources that state that criminals are getting more guns illegally.  That means their gun control laws are not working on criminals.   You want to mix murder with gun control, and that doesn't work.  A criminal with an illegal gun doesn't have to pull the trigger.  You and your anti-gun buddies seem to think that a criminal with a gun must pull the trigger and end the life of the victim...that isn't the case.
> 
> And as I keep showing you...... more guns does not equal more crime......  26 years of experience in the United States shows that this is true....more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down 49%...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%.   Britain banned and confiscated guns...you gun crime rate in London went up 42%....across England and Wales in 2016 23%, in 2017 16%....it is increasing, not going down... the British police have stated they cannot stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, which is exactly what Gun Control Failure is.....a failure to stop criminals from getting illegal guns....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh Lord. The obvious assumption is that if we adopt crazy US laws then our murder rates will multiply five fold. We would have to be on crack to want that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our gun murder rate went down 49% as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years...your gun crime rate went up 42% in London, your capitol.....on an island.  Your police state they can't stop the flow of illegal guns into your country, and gun crime is going up, not down....you are doing it wrong, and it is going to get worse for you.
Click to expand...

Will it be as bad as the US ?


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## 2aguy

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
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> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 2aguy said:
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> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing murder with other gun crime.   You don't have to pull the trigger on a gun to end a life if you rob, rape or brutalize someone.    Gun crime is increasing in Australia and Britain but their murder rates are not going up.....but they have more crime using illegal guns...
> 
> Gun control isn't working if there are more illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals....I have shown you the articles from British and Australian news sources that state that criminals are getting more guns illegally.  That means their gun control laws are not working on criminals.   You want to mix murder with gun control, and that doesn't work.  A criminal with an illegal gun doesn't have to pull the trigger.  You and your anti-gun buddies seem to think that a criminal with a gun must pull the trigger and end the life of the victim...that isn't the case.
> 
> And as I keep showing you...... more guns does not equal more crime......  26 years of experience in the United States shows that this is true....more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down 49%...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%.   Britain banned and confiscated guns...you gun crime rate in London went up 42%....across England and Wales in 2016 23%, in 2017 16%....it is increasing, not going down... the British police have stated they cannot stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, which is exactly what Gun Control Failure is.....a failure to stop criminals from getting illegal guns....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh Lord. The obvious assumption is that if we adopt crazy US laws then our murder rates will multiply five fold. We would have to be on crack to want that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our gun murder rate went down 49% as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years...your gun crime rate went up 42% in London, your capitol.....on an island.  Your police state they can't stop the flow of illegal guns into your country, and gun crime is going up, not down....you are doing it wrong, and it is going to get worse for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will it be as bad as the US ?
Click to expand...



It will be worse......since your people won't have guns to defend themselves....    as the U.S. entered the 1960s our violent crime went through the roof....until the 1990s.... you are now entering a period of violence....and you won't have the option of arming yourselves to stop it.


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## Tommy Tainant

2aguy said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 2aguy said:
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> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 2aguy said:
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> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing murder with other gun crime.   You don't have to pull the trigger on a gun to end a life if you rob, rape or brutalize someone.    Gun crime is increasing in Australia and Britain but their murder rates are not going up.....but they have more crime using illegal guns...
> 
> Gun control isn't working if there are more illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals....I have shown you the articles from British and Australian news sources that state that criminals are getting more guns illegally.  That means their gun control laws are not working on criminals.   You want to mix murder with gun control, and that doesn't work.  A criminal with an illegal gun doesn't have to pull the trigger.  You and your anti-gun buddies seem to think that a criminal with a gun must pull the trigger and end the life of the victim...that isn't the case.
> 
> And as I keep showing you...... more guns does not equal more crime......  26 years of experience in the United States shows that this is true....more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down 49%...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%.   Britain banned and confiscated guns...you gun crime rate in London went up 42%....across England and Wales in 2016 23%, in 2017 16%....it is increasing, not going down... the British police have stated they cannot stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, which is exactly what Gun Control Failure is.....a failure to stop criminals from getting illegal guns....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh Lord. The obvious assumption is that if we adopt crazy US laws then our murder rates will multiply five fold. We would have to be on crack to want that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our gun murder rate went down 49% as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years...your gun crime rate went up 42% in London, your capitol.....on an island.  Your police state they can't stop the flow of illegal guns into your country, and gun crime is going up, not down....you are doing it wrong, and it is going to get worse for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will it be as bad as the US ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It will be worse......since your people won't have guns to defend themselves....    as the U.S. entered the 1960s our violent crime went through the roof....until the 1990s.... you are now entering a period of violence....and you won't have the option of arming yourselves to stop it.
Click to expand...

So we should allow more guns and see our murder rates increase 5 fold. Thats your solution ?


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## Likkmee

While smoking a joint, high on cocaine and driving a stolen car. You take a wild guess "how" ?. Laws dont work. Shotguns do.


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## 2aguy

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
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> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 2aguy said:
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> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are confusing murder with other gun crime.   You don't have to pull the trigger on a gun to end a life if you rob, rape or brutalize someone.    Gun crime is increasing in Australia and Britain but their murder rates are not going up.....but they have more crime using illegal guns...
> 
> Gun control isn't working if there are more illegal guns getting into the hands of criminals....I have shown you the articles from British and Australian news sources that state that criminals are getting more guns illegally.  That means their gun control laws are not working on criminals.   You want to mix murder with gun control, and that doesn't work.  A criminal with an illegal gun doesn't have to pull the trigger.  You and your anti-gun buddies seem to think that a criminal with a gun must pull the trigger and end the life of the victim...that isn't the case.
> 
> And as I keep showing you...... more guns does not equal more crime......  26 years of experience in the United States shows that this is true....more Americans own and carry guns...our gun murder rate went down 49%...our gun crime rate went down 75%....our violent crime rate went down 72%.   Britain banned and confiscated guns...you gun crime rate in London went up 42%....across England and Wales in 2016 23%, in 2017 16%....it is increasing, not going down... the British police have stated they cannot stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into Britain, which is exactly what Gun Control Failure is.....a failure to stop criminals from getting illegal guns....
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Lord. The obvious assumption is that if we adopt crazy US laws then our murder rates will multiply five fold. We would have to be on crack to want that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our gun murder rate went down 49% as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years...your gun crime rate went up 42% in London, your capitol.....on an island.  Your police state they can't stop the flow of illegal guns into your country, and gun crime is going up, not down....you are doing it wrong, and it is going to get worse for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Will it be as bad as the US ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It will be worse......since your people won't have guns to defend themselves....    as the U.S. entered the 1960s our violent crime went through the roof....until the 1990s.... you are now entering a period of violence....and you won't have the option of arming yourselves to stop it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So we should allow more guns and see our murder rates increase 5 fold. Thats your solution ?
Click to expand...



Over 26 years as more Americans went out, bought guns and now carry them, our gun murder rate went down 49%.....our gun crime rate went down 75%, our violent crime rate went down 72%.....our crime rate has nothing to do with normal people who own and carry guns.

Our crime rate has everything to do with democrat party politicians, judges and prosecutors letting violent criminals out of jail over and over again...if they stopped doing that, our crime rate would be even lower.


Meanwhile...all of your crime stats keep going up, including murder....


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## harmonica

Tommy Tainant said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
Click to expand...

he uses statistics FOR gun control as arguments AGAINST gun control
???
that tells you how ridiculous his anti-gun control arguments are


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## Pilot1

Governments the world over, including the U.S. hate that private citizens can have a means of self defense with a firearm.  They want ultimate control, and a firearm lessens that control.


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## 2aguy

harmonica said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he uses statistics FOR gun control as arguments AGAINST gun control
> ???
> that tells you how ridiculous his anti-gun control arguments are
Click to expand...



You meant that a country that has banned and confiscated guns has increasing gun crime...that is an argument for gun control?   Really?  You have a funny definition of gun control.  Normal people can't have guns....and their gun crime rate keeps going up.....


Meanwhile....in the United States....over the last 26 years....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25  million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


--* gun murder down 49%*

*--gun crime down 75%*

*--violent crime down 72%*

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


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## harmonica

2aguy said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he uses statistics FOR gun control as arguments AGAINST gun control
> ???
> that tells you how ridiculous his anti-gun control arguments are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You meant that a country that has banned and confiscated guns has increasing gun crime...that is an argument for gun control?   Really?  You have a funny definition of gun control.  Normal people can't have guns....and their gun crime rate keeps going up.....
> 
> 
> Meanwhile....in the United States....over the last 26 years....
> 
> We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25  million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...
> 
> 
> --* gun murder down 49%*
> 
> *--gun crime down 75%*
> 
> *--violent crime down 72%*
> 
> Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware
> 
> Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Click to expand...

we've been over this a million times
the US has 21% MORE crime
Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
over 3 times the murders
etc etc
Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats


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## Pilot1

harmonica said:


> we've been over this a million times
> the US has 21% MORE crime
> Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
> over 3 times the murders
> etc etc
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats



And we've also said this a million times.  The stats are skewed by SUICIDES, and INNER CITY GANG VIOLENCE, due to America's unusually dense inner city Black population.  Name another society in developed nations that have this characteristic.


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## harmonica

Pilot1 said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> we've been over this a million times
> the US has 21% MORE crime
> Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
> over 3 times the murders
> etc etc
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we've also said this a million times.  The stats are skewed by SUICIDES, and INNER CITY GANG VIOLENCE, due to America's unusually dense inner city Black population.  Name another society in developed nations that have this characteristic.
Click to expand...

NO--NO--not suicides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????
did you not look at the link????!!
MURDERS
you prove to be bullshit by mentioning suicides 

these are MURDERS


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## harmonica

Pilot1 said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> we've been over this a million times
> the US has 21% MORE crime
> Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
> over 3 times the murders
> etc etc
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we've also said this a million times.  The stats are skewed by SUICIDES, and INNER CITY GANG VIOLENCE, due to America's unusually dense inner city Black population.  Name another society in developed nations that have this characteristic.
Click to expand...

1. so what---we want less murders----yes???
2. AND you'll have to prove Aussies' murders are NOT the same category
please give us some stats on that


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## harmonica

Pilot1 said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> we've been over this a million times
> the US has 21% MORE crime
> Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
> over 3 times the murders
> etc etc
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we've also said this a million times.  The stats are skewed by SUICIDES, and INNER CITY GANG VIOLENCE, due to America's unusually dense inner city Black population.  Name another society in developed nations that have this characteristic.
Click to expand...

AND i just proved 2A's stats are ridiculous 
the US has MORE crime MORE murders


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## Tommy Tainant

harmonica said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he uses statistics FOR gun control as arguments AGAINST gun control
> ???
> that tells you how ridiculous his anti-gun control arguments are
Click to expand...

I think he is waiting for an updated checklist from the NRA. If I was in his position I would be looking for examples of gun control in countries with a worse murder rate than the US. Maybe there arent any.


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## harmonica

Pilot1 said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> we've been over this a million times
> the US has 21% MORE crime
> Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
> over 3 times the murders
> etc etc
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we've also said this a million times.  The stats are skewed by SUICIDES, and INNER CITY GANG VIOLENCE, due to America's unusually dense inner city Black population.  Name another society in developed nations that have this characteristic.
Click to expand...

also, to disprove your argument
New York city population is much, much more denser  than St louis, Mo
same percentage of whites
NYC population 8.5 MILLION......STL  320,000
NYC very strict gun control......murders 289
very pro-gun STL.......................murders 203
NYC sees record low homicides in 2018 based on preliminary data
St. Louis Murder Count Stands At 203 After Four Fatal Shootings - KTRS | St Louis News and Talk Radio | The Big 550 AM
STL murder capital of the US
St. Louis Named A 'Murder Capital Of America'


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## harmonica

Tommy Tainant said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep...gun control doesn't work anywhere......... gun crime is escalating in Australia, and this victim found out the hard way....with a bullet to the face....
> 
> Man shot in face by masked assailant at Brunswick Heads
> 
> 
> 
> It patently does work. More people have been killed in the US already this year than will be killed in Australia all year.
> 
> The US has around 5 gun deaths per 100k of population the Aussies have 1.
> 
> Please explain how gun control isnt working in countries that are many times safer than the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he uses statistics FOR gun control as arguments AGAINST gun control
> ???
> that tells you how ridiculous his anti-gun control arguments are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think he is waiting for an updated checklist from the NRA. If I was in his position I would be looking for examples of gun control in countries with a worse murder rate than the US. Maybe there arent any.
Click to expand...

there might be some, but mainly these are not as comparable to the US as France, Germany, Japan, UK, Aus are


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## 2aguy

harmonica said:


> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> we've been over this a million times
> the US has 21% MORE crime
> Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
> over 3 times the murders
> etc etc
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we've also said this a million times.  The stats are skewed by SUICIDES, and INNER CITY GANG VIOLENCE, due to America's unusually dense inner city Black population.  Name another society in developed nations that have this characteristic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AND i just proved 2A's stats are ridiculous
> the US has MORE crime MORE murders
Click to expand...



And that has nothing to do with law abiding people who own and carry guns...as our increase in gun ownership among law abiding people while the gun murder rate dropped 49%, the gun crime rate dropped 75% and the violent crime rate dropped 72%....

So you have no argument........ what you propose has no bearing on lawful gun ownership and the crime rate....

The actual problem in this country is the democrat party and their criminal justice policies....where they let known, repeat, violent gun offenders back into neighborhoods controlled by the democrat party.....that is where our crime problem is....

That you don't understand that reflects poorly on you....


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## 2aguy

harmonica said:


> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> we've been over this a million times
> the US has 21% MORE crime
> Ranked 30th. *21% more* than Australia
> over 3 times the murders
> etc etc
> Australia vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we've also said this a million times.  The stats are skewed by SUICIDES, and INNER CITY GANG VIOLENCE, due to America's unusually dense inner city Black population.  Name another society in developed nations that have this characteristic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> also, to disprove your argument
> New York city population is much, much more denser  than St louis, Mo
> same percentage of whites
> NYC population 8.5 MILLION......STL  320,000
> NYC very strict gun control......murders 289
> very pro-gun STL.......................murders 203
> NYC sees record low homicides in 2018 based on preliminary data
> St. Louis Murder Count Stands At 203 After Four Fatal Shootings - KTRS | St Louis News and Talk Radio | The Big 550 AM
> STL murder capital of the US
> St. Louis Named A 'Murder Capital Of America'
Click to expand...



And you know the reason...that you pretend to not know, shows you are dishonest.....

St. Louis has had democrat party mayors since 1949.....they have policies toward criminals and the police that cause their crime problem....the law abiding gun owners in St. Louis are not shooting anyone......

You are a dishonest hack....

Democrats in charge since 1949

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, *the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” *making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked. *And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,”* an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

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*Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. *Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
*When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.*

*In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.*

Violence down in St. Louis but homicides hold steady. Are tougher penalties for gun crimes the answer?

But many challenges remain, official said. The department is still down more than 130 officers. Witnesses to crimes remain reluctant to come forward for fear of retaliation, making it difficult to close cases. And a lack of state laws to deter gun crimes has forced the police to turn to federal courts to indict some suspects.

On Tuesday, Edwards made a new pitch: He wants to see the mandatory minimum sentence for armed criminal action raised from its current ceiling of three years to at least 15 years for nonfatal shootings, and 25 years for fatal shootings.

And here is their actual problem....democrats using race based, politically correct policies that allow violent criminals to rule in the streets....

Edwards wants to actually do something....to target actual criminals and the democrats are fighting it....as usual...

*Some aldermen expressed concern over that proposal: over its potential effectiveness, if it would lead to higher numbers of incarcerated people, or if it would disproportionately target poor, marginalized communities.*


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