# Capital Gains taxes go up 33%



## Rocko (Jan 1, 2013)

If this bill gets passed by the house, I think this will be devastating for the market. I surprised we didn't see more of a sell off prior, even with the January effect kicking in.


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## boedicca (Jan 1, 2013)

Rocko said:


> If this bill gets passed by the house, I think this will be devastating for the market. I surprised we didn't see more of a sell off prior, even with the January effect kicking in.




It will be very devastating for seniors living on their investments.  With ZIRP, interest rates are so low that many seniors are investing in dividend paying stocks to make ends meet.   With the increase in capital gains rates, they'll see their capital erode as well.

Thanks Bernanke!


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## Rocko (Jan 1, 2013)

boedicca said:


> Rocko said:
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Also, just when housing market was starting to rebound..


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## boedicca (Jan 1, 2013)

Rocko said:


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That's a government propped up illusion as well due to abnormally low interest rates.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 1, 2013)

From what I've read the bill floating right now would raise capital gains from 15% to 20% only for income above 450k.

Where did you hear that capital gains have gone up to 33%?


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## boedicca (Jan 1, 2013)

SteadyMercury said:


> From what I've read the bill floating right now would raise capital gains from 15% to 20% only for income above 450k.
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> Where did you hear that capital gains have gone up to 33%?




That's not true.  ObamaCare already includes increasing the cap gains rate to 20% for everyone.  In addition, couples making more than $250K and singles making more than $200K will pay an additional 3.8% medicare tax on capital gains.

What ObamaCare Means for Your Taxes - SmartMoney.com


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 1, 2013)

You're confusing Obamacare with the Bush era temporary tax cuts due to expire that are part of the fiscal cliff. Read your own link, the change from 15% to 20% is exactly what I was referring to in my post and it has nothing to do with Obamacare.

The 3.8% is related to Obamacare, but still doesn't add up to 33% (20+3.8=23.8) and given the income limits I submit it will impact very few retirees that you guys are wringing your hands about.

So again I ask, where did we get the information that cap gains are going up to 33%? It is my understanding that current bill going to house would raise long term cap gains from 15% to 20% only for households with income > 450k.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 1, 2013)

I think I get it, he's saying will go up by 33%, which would be 15 to 20.

Given that it would only apply to households with incomes over 450k do you really think this will "devastate" seniors/retirees?


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## Moonglow (Jan 1, 2013)

even though  the rates will rise, millions will still be made.


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## Rozman (Jan 1, 2013)

Rocko said:


> If this bill gets passed by the house, I think this will be devastating for the market. I surprised we didn't see more of a sell off prior, even with the January effect kicking in.



I am very interested to see how the market reacts tomorrow and the rest of this short work week.


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## Rocko (Jan 1, 2013)

SteadyMercury said:


> From what I've read the bill floating right now would raise capital gains from 15% to 20% only for income above 450k.
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> Where did you hear that capital gains have gone up to 33%?



The capital gains tax would be 33% higher than it was last year. What's so hard to understand?


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## Rocko (Jan 1, 2013)

Rozman said:


> Rocko said:
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Well, it's not going to be a positive.


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## Rocko (Jan 1, 2013)

SteadyMercury said:


> I think I get it, he's saying will go up by 33%, which would be 15 to 20.
> 
> Given that it would only apply to households with incomes over 450k do you really think this will "devastate" seniors/retirees?



When the market plummets thousands of points, everyone involved will be effected.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 1, 2013)

Rocko said:


> The capital gains tax would be 33% higher than it was last year. What's so hard to understand?


It is hard to understand because it isn't true.

If you have a household income of 450k your capital gains tax will be 33% higher. A very, very small minority of earners being affected by something is far different than your absolute statement that capital gains will go up, since for the overwhelming majority they will not.

Furthermore, watching the two of you worrying about how devastating it will be to seniors is pure hilarity, given said income qualifications to be affected.


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## zonly1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


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But in cali, cap gains up +3.8% since prop screw u but moonbeam sez he found a rainy day fund, not going pay down our debt and union libilities.


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## Koios (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


> If this bill gets passed by the house, I think this will be devastating for the market. I surprised we didn't see more of a sell off prior, even with the January effect kicking in.



Yeah; what with the cut in long term gains having been such economic nirvana and all. 

God how I would hate to go back to the bad old days of higher GDP growth.


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## Article 15 (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


> If this bill gets passed by the house, I think this will be devastating for the market. I surprised we didn't see more of a sell off prior, even with the January effect kicking in.



It looks like investors paying five cents more on a profit dollar wasn't as devastating as you hoped.


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## Koios (Jan 18, 2013)

Article 15 said:


> Rocko said:
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Don't get all mathy and shit. The Righties hate it since it involves thinking and numbers all at the same time. Gives em a head ache.


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## Rocko (Jan 18, 2013)

Article 15 said:


> Rocko said:
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Where'd you get 5 cents more on a profit dollar? Whatever that means. 

Capital gains tax is 58% higher than it was last year, for anyone making 400k or more. That's not a good thing for the market.


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## Koios (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


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5 cents (5/100ths) is merely another way of expressing 5%, which is the delta change in LTCGs.

Note that they were reduced as part of the Bush Tax Cuts by 25%, since 20% - 5% = 15%.  (1/4th) Now they've returned to 20%, which is a 33% increase. (1/3rd)  But don't let the bigger percentage number frighten you, since it's relative to smaller number that LTCGs became when they were reduced in hope of increasing growth in the economy, yet growth slowed and then the economy went into the shitter, in 2008, as you may recall.


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## Koios (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


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Bullshit fuzzy math with imagined increases in the future, on a worst case senario and far, far from "anyone" with more than $400 grand in long-term gains.  And many of those folks already locked in 15% by selling and then seconds later repurchasing the stocks, etc, before year end.


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## Rocko (Jan 18, 2013)

Koios said:


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I was referring to the term "dollar profit", by which he meant for every dollar profited. 

The tax is not 20%, it's 23.8%, which is 58% higher than last year.


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## Koios (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


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Nah; it's 20% on the vast majority of non-exempt gains.


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## Rocko (Jan 18, 2013)

Koios said:


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it's not 20% for anyone.


> Snapshot of 2013 Federal Capital Gain Tax Rates
> Single Taxpayer
> Married Filing Jointly
> Capital Gain
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Capital Gain Tax Rate Increases in 2013


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## Koios (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


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Okay, pick me a LTCG amount that equates to a 53% increase v. a couple weeks, plus, back.

Go hog wild.


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## Rocko (Jan 18, 2013)

Koios said:


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What do you mean pick an amount?


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## Koios (Jan 18, 2013)

Rocko said:


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Such as $1.6 million.  Or $50 grand.  Or ... pick an amount, then show before and after, and calulate the percentage increase.

Simple to do, I'd think.


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## SteadyMercury (Jan 19, 2013)

Rocko said:


> If this bill gets passed by the house, I think this will be devastating for the market. I surprised we didn't see more of a sell off prior, even with the January effect kicking in.





Rocko said:


> When the market plummets thousands of points, everyone involved will be effected.



I'm sure you made a killing with your extremely accurate predictions of the stock market's reaction to the passing of this bill.

Don't quit your day job.


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