# AVG-Gun Owner.



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

Yup.  I just purchased my very first firearm.  I get to pick it up in 3 days.







Made in America, of course


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

Should have the CC permit within 90 days.

AVG-Wife and I have a new hobby!


----------



## aaronleland (Mar 12, 2016)

Obama should have you arrested.... and tortured.


----------



## Iceweasel (Mar 12, 2016)

Good for you. Their revolvers have a good reputation, I don't know about the semi autos. Definitely go to the range and put rounds through it until you are confident it runs well. I'm assuming it's 9mm?


----------



## MisterBeale (Mar 12, 2016)

I know all of these progressives have been bitching and threatening to go to Canada if Trump wins.

Realistically, looking at all the kerfuffles going on at the Trump rallies, I think they will just abandon their anti-gun rhetoric and join you in purchasing a gun if he wins. . . .


----------



## MisterBeale (Mar 12, 2016)

After all, it's what the right did when Obama won. . .


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 12, 2016)

Ruger makes a pretty good pistol. The Sheriff's department where I live carry them. They seem to work well for them. Congratulations!


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Good for you. Their revolvers have a good reputation, I don't know about the semi autos. Definitely go to the range and put rounds through it until you are confident it runs well. I'm assuming it's 9mm?




Indeed. Until you have put (say) 1,000 rounds through her - she won't be "broke in"


----------



## Iceweasel (Mar 12, 2016)

RandallFlagg said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Good for you. Their revolvers have a good reputation, I don't know about the semi autos. Definitely go to the range and put rounds through it until you are confident it runs well. I'm assuming it's 9mm?
> ...


I've heard 500 but I have .45s for the most part and more than a few that have seen no where near that.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Good for you. Their revolvers have a good reputation, I don't know about the semi autos. Definitely go to the range and put rounds through it until you are confident it runs well. I'm assuming it's 9mm?



Yes, sir.  9mm.  

This weapon comes with a pretty good on-line reputation, and it wasn't very expensive - $400 with tax, title and back-ground check.  I was drawn to the caliber, the fact that it's made in USA and damn, does it fit my big right hand well.  Not a lot of the pistols on the display shelf did.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

aaronleland said:


> Obama should have you arrested.... and tortured.



Obama can kiss my ass


----------



## Iceweasel (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Good for you. Their revolvers have a good reputation, I don't know about the semi autos. Definitely go to the range and put rounds through it until you are confident it runs well. I'm assuming it's 9mm?
> ...


The fit is a very important consideration that many don't consider so you got some good advice. Modern 9mm is supposed to be close to .45s in performance these days, it's what I hear anyway. Much cheaper to buy though!


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> I know all of these progressives have been bitching and threatening to go to Canada if Trump wins.
> 
> Realistically, looking at all the kerfuffles going on at the Trump rallies, I think they will just abandon their anti-gun rhetoric and join you in purchasing a gun if he wins. . . .




I won't say that that's THE reason for my purchase, but it didn't slow me down any.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Good for you. Their revolvers have a good reputation, I don't know about the semi autos. Definitely go to the range and put rounds through it until you are confident it runs well. I'm assuming it's 9mm?
> ...


Then you wouldn't want a Ruger .380. That thing is so small I carry it in my shirt pocket.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Mar 12, 2016)

Those Rugers should be fun to shoot – but be careful, they can also be addicting, with more following you home from the gun shop.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...




Facing facts:  I'm also AVG-cheap bastard.  

9mm is the cheapest ammo you can get that you don't need two of to stop a big, fat pissed-off asshole.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



I looked at the 38's.  All of them were too small for me to grip with all three fingers not being used to pull the trigger and the two that held the gun were very distracted by the pinky finger scrambling for purchase.  Control is the name of this game.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Those Rugers should be fun to shoot – but be careful, they can also be addicting, with more following you home from the gun shop.



I may look for something more concealable in the future, but right now I just want to get to know this one better than I know my dick.

The shop I got it from is real close to my house and it has a range.  I see a membership in my future.


----------



## Iceweasel (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > AVG-JOE said:
> ...


38s and .380s are different rounds. The .380 is small, I have the Colt Mustang but it's a pocket gun. I don't use the little finger on it.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...




Oh, I was just kidding   Put as many as you can downrange. It's as good for YOU as it is the weapon!


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Thanks... makes sense.  The ones I that examined and rejected were "38 Specials".

Too small is too small.


----------



## Iceweasel (Mar 12, 2016)

RandallFlagg said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...


1,000 would be a good number, if I hadn't had so many guns follow me home I could afford more ammo.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

RandallFlagg said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



Practice, practice, practice!


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...




Indeed. The .380 is often called the "baby 9" in it's slight similarities to the 9mm round. I bought my Wife a Walther PPK and I've fired it a number of times and (surprisingly) with the right ammo (JHP - Corbon) it can be deadly as hell. Couple that with it's small size (my Wife carries it in her purse) and you have a good conceal carry.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> 1,000 would be a good number, if I hadn't had so many guns follow me home I could afford more ammo.



^^  I like that.  ​


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...




Indeed. Living where I do (260 acres) I have no need for a "range" and I usually carry either my Sig 220 or 226 when I head into the mountains and have caught myself on numerous occasions "plinking the day away".


----------



## Iceweasel (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > AVG-JOE said:
> ...


Oh, that's a revolver round though. They make 38 specials in many sizes, some quite big. Used to be the go to round for police, even war. I have the Ruger SP101 .357 magnum. That size chamber also shoots the 38s, cheaper for target practice. It is a small gun but a .357 is a potent sumbitch.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

RandallFlagg said:


> Indeed. The .380 is often called the "baby 9" in it's slight similarities to the 9mm round. I bout my Wife a Walther PPK and I've fired it a number of times and (surprisingly) with the right ammo (JHP - Corbon) it can be deadly as hell. Couple that with it's small size (my Wife carries it in her purse) and you have a good conceal carry.



Thanks.  We're still shopping for just the right weapon for AVG-Wife, and you're not the first to recommend the PPK.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed. The .380 is often called the "baby 9" in it's slight similarities to the 9mm round. I bout my Wife a Walther PPK and I've fired it a number of times and (surprisingly) with the right ammo (JHP - Corbon) it can be deadly as hell. Couple that with it's small size (my Wife carries it in her purse) and you have a good conceal carry.
> ...




If you are looking for a nice-priced weapon (with the frame of the PPK) I have a friend who carries a Bersa Thunder in .380. He speaks highly of it. Cost? $300 bucks.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 12, 2016)

I've spent the last couple of hours looking at accessories and holsters...

  O.  M.  G.​Does anyone know if these are quality products that work as advertised?


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> I've spent the last couple of hours looking at accessories and holsters...
> 
> O.  M.  G.​Does anyone know if these are quality products that work as advertised?


My holster


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 12, 2016)

I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> I've spent the last couple of hours looking at accessories and holsters...
> 
> O.  M.  G.​Does anyone know if these are quality products that work as advertised?






You've entered the Twighlight Zone" of shooting accessories....

There are as many holsters as there are stars in the sky. Maybe this will help: how do you want to carry? Shoulder rigs have always worked well for me, but in the summer they can be a pain. So, to offset that I use a T-shirt holster (look them up, there are THOUSANDS of them )

For side carry, you have to decide whether you want to go leather, plastic, cloth, inside the belt, outside the belt, inside the waist band, inside the wais band.......it boggles the mind...

I personally prefer leather, but again, that's me. I also use a holster for my Sigs made by IMI defense. They build holsters for the Isralie defense forces and are quite comfortable with jeans.

Honestly, though, I would steer you to cabelas or Bass Pro and take a look at the HUNDREDS of holsters available....it's never ending.

Some folks like Galco leather. Me? I prefer Fitzpatrick leather holsters and both are online.

Good luck.....the right holster can make the difference between comfort and absolute AGONY....


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Mar 12, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



  You show great restraint ...
I buy a new firearm and it'll have a thousand through it in the first week.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Mar 12, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



  Yep....



  And you can hit a six inch plate at 40ft easily.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Should have the CC permit within 90 days.
> 
> AVG-Wife and I have a new hobby!




As you probably know...get lots of training....secure your weapon when it is not under your direct control...for your car...get a lockable gun container/safe.....check Amazon, that is where I found mine.

iF you have kids.....if they are old enough teach them gun safety......

You are now part of the 2nd Amendment line of defence...if you screw up you give ammo to the enemies of one of our basic freedoms....


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 12, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> I've spent the last couple of hours looking at accessories and holsters...
> 
> O.  M.  G.​Does anyone know if these are quality products that work as advertised?




I have one for each gun.......but I consider it a quick holster for a quick trip or around the house.......I have a good kydex holster for carrying all day.   Make sure whatever holster you get covers the trigger........


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 12, 2016)

Know your gun laws......do you have carry insurance.....in case you actually have to defend yourself?   There is one group with Massad Ayoob on heir board...this group and the others will give you a recommended list of defense attorneys in your area...and if you have to defend yourself and get charged...they  give the attorney you choose the 5,000 dollar retainer to start your defense...and if you were justified....but the prosecutor is a prick...they will pay for your defense.......

Definitely something to look into.........

Do you know what to do if you are involved in a shooting?   

Good luck..carry smart.....


----------



## strollingbones (Mar 13, 2016)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Those Rugers should be fun to shoot – but be careful, they can also be addicting, with more following you home from the gun shop.



no truer words


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 13, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> My holster



Assuming that the photo is not flipped, is that considered a "right-hand draw"?

If I go with that style, I'm thinking that I want it more in the small of my back with the trigger down, and a lefty would work.


----------



## Iceweasel (Mar 13, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.


I hope you realize her research was useless since 9mm is the overwhelming choice for street shootings. Of course many more deaths are going to show up in looking at raw numbers.

There are pros and cons to every choice but it's still a pistol round. A single .22 can kill you or you can take 4 .45s and survive. It all depends. And your 9mm is a semi-auto. An automatic only needs one trigger pull to empty out.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 13, 2016)

RandallFlagg said:


> You've entered the Twighlight Zone" of shooting accessories....
> 
> There are as many holsters as there are stars in the sky. Maybe this will help: how do you want to carry? Shoulder rigs have always worked well for me, but in the summer they can be a pain. So, to offset that I use a T-shirt holster (look them up, there are THOUSANDS of them )
> 
> ...



As I mentioned in my reply to Hossfly's post, I'm thinking that I want to draw with my right hand from the small of my back with the trigger down, and the barrel pointing at my at my left ass-cheek.  From the photos online, it appears that a left-handed, inside-the-waist might serve me.  That's why the 'Sticky' type caught my eye.  I can sweat, and if my holster is between my belt and me, I want something that will envelope and protect the weapon.

I saw the undershirt models, but in Florida in the summertime, less is more when it comes to clothing. 

Thanks for the tip on the big retailers, I'll check out Bass Pro and see if I can try on several...


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Mar 13, 2016)

I wear overalls a lot and keep a Ruger LCR in the pocket in the "bib". This works well for me as I can draw with either hand when seated while working or driving a vehicle. This can be a real problem with waist holsters.


----------



## Ringel05 (Mar 13, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Good for you. Their revolvers have a good reputation, I don't know about the semi autos. Definitely go to the range and put rounds through it until you are confident it runs well. I'm assuming it's 9mm?
> ...


Fit, it's the biggest problem I have with Glocks.  I have huge hands and the narrow silhouette sidearms work best for me, probably the same with you.  
Ruger has a very good reputation these days, like a lot of manufacturers not so good in the past but have become much, much better with time.
Take Taurus, I would buy a Taurus revolver in a heartbeat but you couldn't give me a Taurus semi-auto, I'd be afraid the damn thing would blow up in my hand.


----------



## Ringel05 (Mar 13, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.


.38 was the preferred standard caliber since it's introduction in 1902 and still is the most purchased round today, yup even over the current industry standard 9 mils. 
The Moros (during the Moro Rebellion) would tie off their extremities (limiting blood flow), get high as a kite and attack with spears and knives, the standard Army .38 of the time would not even slow them down so the Army started using the .45 Colt, one or two shots would stop the Moros before they could get close enough to hack and stab our soldiers to death. 
Don't believe the hype about the 9 mil being the deadliest sidearm cartridge out there, it's not, not by any stretch of the imagination, even the lowely .38 beats it.  Doesn't mean it's not deadly, it's just no where near as deadly as some claim.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 13, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > My holster
> ...


Most gun shops offer left and right hand holsters depending on where you want to carry it on your body. Here's a picture of one I like but won't wear.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 13, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.
> ...




I can state - for a fact - that the .22 is the perfect "assassination" weapon. In the early 80s, both sides, (the US and USSR) used them extensively throughout Europe. You'd simply walk up behind a local Kommisar and put one in the back of the noggin, next to the right ear. Death was instant.

This started as a result of the KGB coming across the border and taking out GIs. We pulled many young men (and a few WACs) from the Rhine, The Nekkar, etc. That's a part of the Cold War that (unfortunately) many have never heard.

Hell, truth be told, ANY caliber bullet can be extremely lethal. As a kid, I took hundreds rabbits and squirrels with a .410 shotgun. I believe that Hollywood has perpetuated the "myth" that a .45 will put a hole the size of a house in a person. Unfortunately, there are too many reports of guys getting up after being hit with either a .45 OR a 9mm.

The way to get those numbers down (with either caliber)? Shoot for the head.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 13, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...




I don't know....I believe I could wear that like a cheap suit 

(Looks around for the Wife)


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 13, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > You've entered the Twighlight Zone" of shooting accessories....
> ...




No problem. You are right. If you are looking for a SOB holster and you are right handed - go for the left handed holster. It will be MUCH easier to get if you need it in a hurry.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 13, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.
> ...



YESSSS Ring, I know that it is a semi-automatic, and so does everyone else. Do I really need to spell it out? As for the 45, you are right. It will stop anything, but My lady friend who was a nurse told me that she seldom saw anyone hit by a 45 more than once, whereas with a 9 MM, three hits were normal.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 13, 2016)

9thIDdoc said:


> I wear overalls a lot and keep a Ruger LCR in the pocket in the "bib". This works well for me as I can draw with either hand when seated while working or driving a vehicle. This can be a real problem with waist holsters.



Thanks, but overalls in Florida are just wrong unless you cut them off, and then they tend to look like lederhosen, which is also just plain wrong for a man my age.


----------



## Ringel05 (Mar 13, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


Yes, a three tap, center mass is standard training and I never mentioned anything about it being semi-auto, it's ballistics that I was referring to, obviously you missed it.  Why so many 9 mil wounds/deaths?  That's easy, what is the most used sidearm today?  The 9 mil........  Before the 9 mil it was the .38 that caused the most wounds/deaths as it was the most used sidearm, kind of a duh moment don'tcha think.........


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 13, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> > I wear overalls a lot and keep a Ruger LCR in the pocket in the "bib". This works well for me as I can draw with either hand when seated while working or driving a vehicle. This can be a real problem with waist holsters.
> ...




Florida.....I remember August 1974 in the panhandle (where they now hold SERE school)

It is a small glimpse of what hell must feel like


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 13, 2016)

RandallFlagg said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



Good point.  The quality of the shot is far more important than the size of the bullet.

Practice, practice, practice!


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 13, 2016)

2aguy said:


> Know your gun laws......do you have carry insurance.....in case you actually have to defend yourself?   There is one group with Massad Ayoob on heir board...this group and the others will give you a recommended list of defense attorneys in your area...and if you have to defend yourself and get charged...they  give the attorney you choose the 5,000 dollar retainer to start your defense...and if you were justified....but the prosecutor is a prick...they will pay for your defense.......
> 
> Definitely something to look into.........
> 
> ...


Good advice. Most people, including gun grabbers think that CC is easy. They don't realize that you are governed by many regulations and laws you have to consider before you pull a gun or even shoot somebody. That when the police arrive you will surrender your gun and you will more than likely be booked. That you will have to appear before a judge for administrative justice and possible charges by a prosecutor. It's for your protection as a licensed gun carrier. The judge will either recommend you get a lawyer or based on the incident, will find you not guilty.
All these legalities will be taught in CC class.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 13, 2016)

There is one thing that, I PROMISE, will make ANY shooter better...


Practice. Then practice. Then practice, repeat as often as necessary. The more the better. Then practice some more.

And remember: those silhouettes aren't shooting back.


----------



## Missourian (Mar 13, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Yup.  I just purchased my very first firearm.  I get to pick it up in 3 days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent choice,  you'll be very happy with that.  I have two older Rugers,  a Standard built in '63 and a P-89 from the '90s.  They both perform flawlessly. 

My wife chose a SR9c five years ago and LOVES it.  We go to the range on a regular basis,  an it is the only handgun she shoots,  so it has put thousands of rounds downrange without a single mechanical flaw or failure.


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Mar 13, 2016)

I was an Army medic in Vietnam, have worked as a nurse in several ERs and have been an avid hunter all my life. I think shot placement is most important, penetration is next most, followed by bullet performance. I have yet to find a vet returning from the sand pile that has any great praise for the 9mm. Some units have gone back to the ole 1911. That or a  good .357 would be my choice also for social purposes.


----------



## Missourian (Mar 13, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.



Interesting post...but why "in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357"?

Here is my 357 with my 9mm and mouse gun. 



 

The 357 is wider than the 9mm,  but otherwise almost the same size.


----------



## Missourian (Mar 13, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed. The .380 is often called the "baby 9" in it's slight similarities to the 9mm round. I bout my Wife a Walther PPK and I've fired it a number of times and (surprisingly) with the right ammo (JHP - Corbon) it can be deadly as hell. Couple that with it's small size (my Wife carries it in her purse) and you have a good conceal carry.
> ...



I'll make an off-the-wall recommendation...Century Arms is importing a slew of Polish P64 Makarov 9x18 semi-autos,  very similar to the PPK.

A little more powerful than a .380,  but less than a 9mm NATO. 

These little guns are built like a tanks.  

Bulk 9x18 Makarov is comparable to 9mm NATO.  1000 rounds of TulAmmo goes for $200.





And @ $232 delivered with holster and 2 mags,  you can hardly beat the price.

FNS-9 Contest Entry: Polish P-64 Gun Review - The Truth About Guns

Educational Zone #113 - Interesting Firearms - The Polish Radom P-64 Pistol - The Box O' Truth

CIA HG3279G P64 9MM MAKAROV


----------



## Ringel05 (Mar 13, 2016)

Missourian said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...


It's my primary CC........  BTW if you buy one go to Wolfe Springs and buy a main spring pack with a #17, #18 and #19 main in it, the P64 has a #24 which will make your trigger finger look like Popeye's forearms........  I found the #19 works best for me, some might go with the #18 but I really think the #17 makes the single action function too sloppy, others have said it doesn't.
I would also recommend taking it apart and cleaning up some of the slide parts and trigger group, they sometimes require a little filing to make the actions smoother but don't file too much, you're mostly looking for burrs and bad pour spots.
Otherwise it's a great sidearm.  I also own and carry a CZ 82 and a CZ 52 though with the 52 you want to use HP ammo as the standard FMJ is designed to penetrate Class II body armor which means it will blow through your target, the engine block behind your target and the 3 people behind the engine block...... 

Here's the CZ 82, Mac 9x18.







The CZ 52 (Some say it feels like a mouse trap attached to a 2x4), it fits my hand perfectly.  It's all metal and big so it's heavy and works best as an open carry unless you're a big guy and can hide it well.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 13, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Ringel05 said:
> ...


I have a number of various calibers in semis and revolvers but the reason I like the Glock 17 is because the magazine holds 17 round. With a pocket full of loaded mags you can put a ton of rounds downrange. For CC I prefer a S&W .38 Special even though it only holds 5 rounds.


----------



## Ringel05 (Mar 13, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


Everyone has a favorite based on what works for them.


----------



## Missourian (Mar 13, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > My holster
> ...



The problem I see with having the trigger down is,  as you draw, unless you go way out of your way,  it is a lot easier to end up pointing the muzzle at yourself as you swing the firearm past your body.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 13, 2016)

Hossfly said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > Know your gun laws......do you have carry insurance.....in case you actually have to defend yourself?   There is one group with Massad Ayoob on heir board...this group and the others will give you a recommended list of defense attorneys in your area...and if you have to defend yourself and get charged...they  give the attorney you choose the 5,000 dollar retainer to start your defense...and if you were justified....but the prosecutor is a prick...they will pay for your defense.......
> ...



It is tough to get a CC here in AZ. You drive up, fill out a form, and give them $25. Not just _anybody_ in AZ has $25.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 13, 2016)

Missourian said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.
> ...



I consider this thread neutral territory, so i would prefer not to go in to that.....


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 13, 2016)

Missourian said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...





There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Maks. Decent guns.


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 13, 2016)

Missourian said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



That thought has crossed my mind... one more thing in the plethora of options to consider 

Ain't America great?​


----------



## Vandalshandle (Mar 13, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...



Don't get me wrong. AZ is an equal opportunity state. Getting a CC license is purely voluntary. It is legal for anyone in the state to CC without a license at all, without even having to demonstrate that you know where the safety switch is. This is a couple of exceptions, though. I'm one of them. I am not allowed to carry a firearm when I am on patrol duty with the Sheriff Auxiliary Volunteers. Oh, and felons's can't either.

I began to suspect that this was perhaps poor planning, when I saw a guy and his wife at a gun shop, looking for a gun for her, and telling the clerk that she had just got her CC license. At the time, she had her rifle butt on the floor,, and was resting her chin on her crossed arms over the barrel. If it had gone off, it would have gone through her arms, chin, brain, and out of the top of her head.


----------



## Ringel05 (Mar 13, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


I've seen far too many people treating firearms like toys and even experts make stupid mistakes when handling firearms, myself included (the stupid mistake part).
One idiot in a gun store was looking at firearms and aiming at other people in the store.  Thankfully the employee was watching, took the AR back and told the guy he would have to take their safety class before he could handle another weapon in that store and to come back only when he was ready to take the safety class.  The idiot protested that it wasn't loaded and was escorted out of the store after being advised a firearm is always considered loaded.  
I've seen people get drunk and decide they wanted to go shooting, we always put an end to that moronic idea.  People at ranges waving their firearm all over, reenactments where someone gets caught up in the moment and fires his (powder only) musket, sidearm directly at their "adversary" just a couple of feet away.  Had that happen to me though the guy who did it freaked when he realized what he had done, luckily I had been able to turn away from the muzzle blast and only my (clothed) arm was hit by burning powder.  
He didn't stop apologizing all weekend long.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 16, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...




Kansas has "Constitutional Carry: - as do 8 other states. You need NOTHING to carry either open or concealed. As long as you aren't a felon - and a citizen - you're good to go. Just as it should be.


----------



## westwall (Mar 23, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Should have the CC permit within 90 days.
> 
> AVG-Wife and I have a new hobby!







Welcome to the club!


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks, westwall!

This has been an interesting education.  Just shopping for ammo is mind-blowing.

I still favor national standards for carry permits and hardware limits... it sucks that my carry permit isn't recognized by Washington, Oregon and a few other states that I'm likely to spend time in, and it sucks that the 17 round clip that came standard with my weapon from its American manufacturer could get me jail time in some U.S. localities.  It sucks even more that the lack of reciprocity between states is more political than practical.  

Baby steps, I suppose.... As it should, ultimate responsibility remains in the hands of the gun owner.


----------



## westwall (Mar 24, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Thanks, westwall!
> 
> This has been an interesting education.  Just shopping for ammo is mind-blowing.
> 
> ...










Indeed they are.  Just imagine, when I was first carrying concealed MOST states didn't allow the AVG-JOE to carry. Those permits were available to only the rich and famous.  We have made major advances since those dark days.  Like I said, welcome to the club, and if you have any questions feel free to ask.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 25, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Yup.  I just purchased my very first firearm.  I get to pick it up in 3 days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An excellent first firearm.   No one can go wrong with a Ruger.


----------



## Divine Wind (May 25, 2016)

Vandalshandle said:


> I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.


Nothing wrong with a .38 for defense.  +P JHPs juice it up a bit.  I have a variety of 9mms and my wife likes shooting a few, but she prefers a Taurus 85PFS for her nightstand.  Yes, with +P JHPs.






For CC, I have a S&W MP Shield 9mm, but my nightstand carries a Springfield Armory 1911A1 .45ACP


----------



## Hossfly (May 25, 2016)

Divine.Wind said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > I used to date a woman who had been an operating room nurse for 15 years in a VA hospital that seemed to have a somewhat shady clientele. Being a single woman working in a marginal neighborhood at all hours of the day and night, she wanted a gun for protection. She told me that she had made it a point to find out what caliber had been used on the  dozens of people undergoing emergency surgery. She told me that the 9 MM wins in the lethal category every time. She agreed that a 45 could make a hell of a mess, but that there was no comparison to a 9MM for being deadly. Of course, in the urban world, nobody walks around with a 357 or 44 mag. On her recommendation, I retired my 38 special revolver and bought a 9 MM automatic. I still keep the 38 special revolver for my bedside nightstand. It is actually mostly for sentimental reasons. It is a WW2 vintage Colt 38 special. Some day, it will be a collector's item.
> ...


----------



## Crixus (May 27, 2016)

AVG-JOE said:


> Thanks, westwall!
> 
> This has been an interesting education.  Just shopping for ammo is mind-blowing.
> 
> ...



Since you bought a 9mm your ammo options are vast and can be very cheap. If it were me, I would buy some bulk 147gr FMJ and shoot it in. This is typically sold in bulk box's of 250 or more rounds. It sounds excessive, but if the bug takes you will shoot allot. Since you will CCW, put allot of time and effort into selection of a holster. The P series from Ruger are indeed thick chunks of goodness, they are not real comfortable (to me) in the concealed carry department. I settled on a Yaqui slide for my little belt gun. It has the benefit of also fitting my big belt gun, but you do have to remember you need longer shirt tails to cover it completely. I have gotten to where I buy shirts from Duluth trading Co. that and a good belt will go a long way to make that a comfortable gun to carry. 

Back to ammo, it cost a bit more,  but Freedom Munitions is where I buy my good ammo.


----------



## AVG-JOE (May 27, 2016)

Thanks for the tip - online purchasing of ammo in bulk is beyond done and in to the realm of 'experienced'   

And 9mm was my chosen "sleep better at night number" before I bought my first weapon.....   I like the price and availability of 9mm ammo


----------

