# Afghanistan: It defeated both Russian and American invasions. They are the greatest war power ever.



## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!

Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops

 Afghanistan Fighters are the best. CLEARLY, it seems our US troops can't defeat mud hut dwellers.
Btw. Blame Dubya, Not Obama. And the Great MAGA Douche just made our troops sacrifice there was confirmed BE for nothang.


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## Thunk (Dec 22, 2019)

Hiding in a cave for 19 years equals "winning"?


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

Thunk said:


> Hiding in a cave for 19 years equals "winning"?


They are still in control of this nation. The USA is bailing. So I call that a WIN!

Btw. Osama was killed in another nation. Can you name it?
btw2: North Korea did as well. The USA failed to win that war.
And all/but one back to WWI! Can you name the only win after WWII by our weak American loser troops? Fyi: it was on a very small island, and that's all I will help.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Afghanistan has been tough, so have been others like Sparta, Ghenghiz Khan, Alexander the Great, Jan III Sobieski, Jozef Pilsudski,  Boleslaw the Brave, Napoleon, Nazis, among others.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Dec 22, 2019)

Guerilla war in a mountainous landscape. Save executing every foul savage one comes across these wars are unwinnable.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Poland's Boleslaw the Brave defeated the German Holy Roman Empire before Boleslaw the Brave, capturing & conquering Kiev of the Kievan Rus with the help of defeated Germans.

At the time the Holy Roman Empire had 7 - 11 million people, and Kievan Rus 6- 8 million people, Poland had just over 1 million..

That's well above Afghanistan achievements.


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...



You sound confused. First you said Afghanistan defeated both Russia and America, then you said Putin wins again. When did Putin win anything relating to Afghanistan? That makes no sense, are you on drugs or something?


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## White 6 (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...



It doesn't mean anything of the kind.  The goals of the two different wars were completely different.  We maintained large deployment levels there due to mission creep, W's mistake carried on by Obama, and up til now, Trump.  W should never have increased to levels unnecessary for the hunt for Osama, and Obama should have started the draw down incrementally after the Seals finished that mission in Pakistan.  I favor leaving very small tailored force to protect whatever interests we actually have and use of  whatever air support necessary to support that mission and aide friendly forces to prevent bloodbath of sudden withdrawal, like he pulled earlier.  Glad to know military leadership is in on the plan this time.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

Tijn Von Ingersleben said:


> Guerilla war in a mountainous landscape. Save executing every foul savage one comes across these wars are unwinnable.


It is said, you fight a gorilla/guerrilla till it quits.
We know our USA troop quit first here.
The gorilla/guerrilla WON!
Does anyone need to say more?
As in WWII, our USA troops won.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Afghanistan has been tough, so have been others like Sparta, Ghenghiz Khan, Alexander the Great, Jan III Sobieski, Jozef Pilsudski,  Boleslaw the Brave, Napoleon, Nazis, among others.


WEAK!. We lost this war.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


> Baz Ares said:
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The USA failed. And bailed like Russia did.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

White 6 said:


> The goals of the two different wars were completely different.


Not really- Petrodollar domination/propping up is why we're in the ME- Nixon made an agreement with Saudi- we defend their interests in exchange for them using Federal Reserve Notes (and note value) for world wide oil trading- pretty simple really-


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

White 6 said:


> Baz Ares said:
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> > As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> ...


Obama did not start and voted as a senator not doing this war. How can anyone blame Obama for the clean up of Dubya's messy?


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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Well alright. Why don't you go talk to the Taliban then. Maybe have a nice bonfire, buy them a Coke and sing Kumbaya while roasting some marshmallows. Maybe they're work out an agreement with you, since you're so "woke" and "tolerant."


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


> White 6 said:
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> > The goals of the two different wars were completely different.
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Interesting view.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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We need to go in with extreme clean up actions. If not in disarmed camps. You die outside.


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## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> Tijn Von Ingersleben said:
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> > Guerilla war in a mountainous landscape. Save executing every foul savage one comes across these wars are unwinnable.
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Ok...point?
I know...as a shitlib...you love to point at failure...but fucking TRY to find some higher point...otherwise you just look a complete ****.

"hahah! you tried and people on both sides died horrible deaths! lol!"

So...what is your fucking point?


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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It wouldn't bother me if we nuked the whole country and turned it into a glass parking lot.


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## White 6 (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


> White 6 said:
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That is not why Russia went in there, and it certainly was not what Bush Jr. administration was selling the American people as reason for sending troops there.  I did not go into reasons inside the administration for the mission creep.  I kind of think Republicans are kind of imperialistic and know war is good for business.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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LMFAO,  so civilians must die, because of wait what?


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## White 6 (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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I don't blame him for starting that war.  He even tried to pull out of Bush's pointless Iraq war.  Wish it had worked out.  Unfortunately, we'd already broke it and failed to get out of it. We probably will have a hard time getting out of this long running Afghanistan war also.  I am just saying, that I think he should have been working our out of Afghanistan immediately after the Seals cam back from Pakistan with Osama's body.


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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Plenty of them died in Dresden, Germany, Tokyo, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima. If we're going to fight a war, fight a war and don't pussyfoot around.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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A war for what?

If anything I'd rather go to war with the Southern states.
They directly impact my life & this country far more than Afghanistan does.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

White 6 said:


> That is not why Russia went in there, and it certainly was not what Bush Jr. administration was selling the American people as reason for sending troops there. I did not go into reasons inside the administration for the mission creep. I kind of think Republicans are kind of imperialistic and know war is good for business.


I didn't say otherwise to either- Bush sold a bunch of crap- the Russians want access to their resources- Neocons, on both sides of the aisle, are imperialistic-


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

To our loser US Troops, who are still alive. Thanks for playing to get Welfare and FREE medical till you die for losing another war.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> To our loser US Troops, who are still alive. Thanks for playing to get Welfare and FREE medical till you die for losing another war.



Hmm, well achieving a goal is a tad different than conquest.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


> White 6 said:
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> > That is not why Russia went in there, and it certainly was not what Bush Jr. administration was selling the American people as reason for sending troops there. I did not go into reasons inside the administration for the mission creep. I kind of think Republicans are kind of imperialistic and know war is good for business.
> ...


Grand Daddy Bush did deals with Hilter as I recall/ remember. So Dubya wanted to cash in?


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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You don't want to do that. They would severely kick your ass.


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## Crepitus (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...


That's not really the whole story.  Has we been willing to decimate the civilian population and destroy most if the infrastructure in the country we could have completely eliminated them.  It would have required the complete destruction of multiple cities and towns and 10s of thousands of civilian casualties.  That would have had a terrible effect on relations with almost everyone else in the area, not to mention being virtual political suicide at home and terrible for the soldiers tasked with carrying it out, so it wasn't done.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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Like when the Confederacy tried just that?


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> If anything I'd rather go to war with the Southern states.


careful what you wish for-


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> To our loser US Troops, who are still alive. Thanks for playing to get Welfare and FREE medical till you die for losing another war.



Hey, you can't beat military disability and VA care, but it was hardly "free."


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
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Didn't say I demanded it.

Just that I would see more reason than this Afghanistan raw deal.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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> ...


Seems they offered not going to war to collect benefits to start, serving.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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For loser troops, or tax payers?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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Well, you're not wrong about Southern idiots using the Military stimulus & benefits  & just about every other Government program as a crutch more often than the North does, while complaining about the Government & its programs.


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## White 6 (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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GD jr may be quite accurate.  Public policy is often much different than back room understandings.  Although, I have not liked Saudi Arabia much since the 6 Day war (god, I'm a dinosaur) and my opinion has only gone down hill since then and obviously I don't attempt to speak for GD.


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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The north has been depressed for decades, while all the money is down south. Hell, you "citizens" can't even own decent firearms.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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Hmm, funny that this says something much different.
California, New York top income growth since 2008 by USA states.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Didn't say I demanded it.


make a note, I said "wish"-


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
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I'd just like to know how Afghanistan impacts my life more negatively than the USA South?


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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First you said "We need to go in with extreme clean up actions" then you knock the US military?

You're all over the place.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

White 6 said:


> GD jr may be quite accurate. Public policy is often much different than back room understandings. Although, I have not liked Saudi Arabia much since the 6 Day war (god, I'm a dinosaur) and my opinion has only gone down hill since then and obviously I don't attempt to speak for GD.


Nixon signed the Saudi agreement- that agreement was/is as I stated- Nixon also removed the last vestige of sound money- he had to in order to fund our agreement- there wasn't enough precious metal available to back the long forgotten US Silver Certificate in the numbers necessary to create the hegemony and colonize the world- but, Federal Reserve Notes can be printed at will and valued however the fed reserve says- therefore, since fed reserve notes are worth about the paper they're printed on we have to prop it up and FORCE its acceptance-


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> I'd just like to know how Afghanistan impacts my life more negatively than the USA South?


How does the US South impact you if you aren't here?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
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> > I'd just like to know how Afghanistan impacts my life more negatively than the USA South?
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How does Afghanistan impact your life if you're not there?


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> How does Afghanistan impact your life if you're not there?


You're barking up the wrong tree bud- careful what you wish for-


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
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> > I'd just like to know how Afghanistan impacts my life more negatively than the USA South?
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Sobieski seems to have a problem with Jews, of which there are many in his neck of the woods. I hardly ever came across many of them when I lived down south, he'd probably like it there.


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## White 6 (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> To our loser US Troops, who are still alive. Thanks for playing to get Welfare and FREE medical till you die for losing another war.


Hey look cocksucker, they were sent to support our foreign policy, with most not even understanding the policy!  The young ones volunteered as patriots.  The more experienced volunteered as patriots and went their specifically because that was the job. They didn't go so they could suck up benefits.  You obviously never served.  Probably no guts.


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## Vastator (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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Bring it on...


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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Afghanistan is Afghanistan.
Little harm has been done by them, in comparison to Southerners.

Most Southerners are war mongering Neocons.
Ones which we pay higher income tax rates in the North for, to pay to prop up the South with stimulus & benefit packages.

As for Afghanistan, I don't think they're much, if at all responsible for 9/11.

Keep in mind Osama was Saudi.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


> Sobieski seems to have a problem with Jews,


I do too- the only 2 I ever knew was in the Navy 65-68- I have no idea about their politics but I do know what I see now- Double Standard whiners who demand the hoaxacaust card be played and submitted to- and Christians idolize them for some reason I can't comprehend-


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Vastator said:


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New Yorkers have already invaded the south. Everywhere you look down there, is either a New Yorker or a Mexican. I didn't mind the Mexicans that much because their food was pretty good, but all the Nyawkers brought with them was their liberalism.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> .
> Ones which we pay higher income tax rates in the North for, to pay to prop up the South with stimulus & benefit packages.


Your taxes pay for your lifestyle- ALL fed taxes are pooled into a general fund and doled out as pork- your state taxes pay for your welfare programs with help from the general fund- to say one gets more than another is disingenuous at best- congress splits it up according to representative numbers (it's called apportioned taxes) and representatives do the pork distribution-


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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Still can't quite grasp the purpose of a Nuclear war with Afghanistan?

You're asking for Russia to Nuclear bomb us.

Hmm, New York probably has the best food in the United States.

New York would probably be a  Swing state, or even a Republican state, if you got rid of Racial, Ethnic & Religious minorities.


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## Uncensored2008 (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...



You should move there, Comrade....


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


> New Yorkers have already invaded the south.


LOL- In Houston, in the late 70's and early 80's, it became unusual to see a Texas license plate- most were from Michigan and Pennsylvania-


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


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Before I moved to Wisconsin in 2007, I lived in Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri since 1968. I don't think I ever saw anyone who was recognizable as being a Jew.


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


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Afghanistan is clearly no priority, and we've been there wasting money & lives because of Southern bozos.

The GDP & income is higher here, so we pay more to Feds.

The South takes more from the Feds, be it welfare, food stamps, or military benefits.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> The GDP & income is higher here, so we pay more to Feds


Higher income is necessary for higher real estate and tax payments- so move- make less, pay less- it's the American way-


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


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The South is filled with trash, thanks but no thanks.


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## Gdjjr (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Afghanistan is clearly no priority, and we've been there wasting money & lives because of Southern bozos


Trump is from where? Obama was from where? Where are your congress critters and Senators from? The South? Who doles out the money? Southern congress critters only? Who agreed to the 1.4 Trillion budget? Southerners only? SMH-


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

Gdjjr said:


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The South has always propped up war mongering,  without that we never would've been in Afghanistan.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...



Lay off the drugs, Baby Talk


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


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Well I must have been mistaken. I thought the majority of people in NY were racial, ethnic & religious minorities?


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Dec 22, 2019)

JGalt said:


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Most counties in New York voted Republican, NYC & close suburbs far less so, because of Blacks, Latinos, Jews, Muslims, Asians, etc.

Most Italians, Poles & Germans here  are probably Trump supporters.

Irish Catholics, and British Protestants probably half & half, maybe even a little more anti-Trump.


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## Andylusion (Dec 22, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...



Failed war in Afghanistan?

What exactly are you talking about?

In 2002, Osama Bin Laden was being housed by the Taliban.

The goal of the invasion was to remove the Taliban for power over Afghanistan, in order to either capture Bin Laden, or at least deny him safe haven, and push him out where we could get him.

This happened.  Taliban is not charge of Afghanistan, and we got Osama just a few years later, because he wasn't being protected by the Taliban.

So... I don't what point you think you are making, but it doesn't seem to fit the facts.


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## JGalt (Dec 22, 2019)

Andylusion said:


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The facts quit meaning anything sometime between Obama's first term and the point President Trump exposed the media for what it is. From the left-wing "Correct The Record" super PAC during the Obama years, to Wikipedia which allows anyone with an account to edit their pages, to the fake news media who just makes up outrageous lies, to social media like Facebook who censors those it disagrees with, we now live in a dystopian Orwellian world where the "facts" are whatever they want us to believe, and whatever supports their narrative.

It isn't hard to see exactly who "they" are: It's the world-wide cartel of anarcho-socialism, neo-Marxism, globalism, progressivism, deep-state, and several other entities, all of whom seem to be working for the same goal: The destruction of private property rights, gun control, and the redistribution of wealth.

This is the greatest "war power" ever, and the greatest threat to the world right now.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 23, 2019)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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LOL! WEAK spews as always. What did we win invading those two nations? 
As Osama was in another nation we did not invade,  living well.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 23, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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Correct, we got nothing from them. Now, ass clown, how about you explain why you're criticizing Trump for wanting to withdraw a good amount of our soldiers out of the country since you acknowledge we shouldn't be there?  Hmmm?  Oh, right, you don't know why.  You just know he's for it, so you're against it, because you're a miserable little troll with the maturity of a ten year old dwelling in your mom's basement.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 23, 2019)

Andylusion said:


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The  Taliban have never lost power over Afghanistan. The US is leaving, they will be out in force,
fully in charge of the place. So tell me, what was won there? As Osama was in another nation after say

Can you name that nation?



Spoiler: For the Stupid DOPers to know some facts Just click this box



In an October 2004 opinion article in _The New York Times_, General Tommy Franks, who was the general commander of U.S forces in Afghanistan at the time, wrote,

We don't know to this day whether Mr. bin Laden was at Tora Bora in December 2001. Some intelligence sources said he was; others indicated he was in Pakistan at the time ... Tora Bora was teeming with Taliban and Qaeda operatives ... but Mr. bin Laden was never within our grasp.~Wiki. It seems Osama was in Pakistan from late 2001 on. OOPS!


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...


And you believe the American patriots will lose?


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 23, 2019)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> And you believe the American patriots will lose?



You want to tell us exactly what we've won?  Better yet, you want to tell us exactly what our mission is?  According to the recent Afghanistan Report even the generals don't know.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 23, 2019)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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We should have never gone in, but we did. We need to stay until it is fully safe.
"Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president the Pottery Barn rule," Kerry told Jim Lehrer and 62 million viewers, "'If you break it, you fix it."'


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2019)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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I've heard countless times from anti-gunners about how the American military would destroy Americans who would resist leftist gun control


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## Baz Ares (Dec 23, 2019)

bigrebnc1775 said:


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Winning some battle is not winning the war. Tell us, do you know the name of the last war the US won?



Spoiler: US Armed Forces last war won.



WWII


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## Harry Dresden (Dec 23, 2019)

JGalt said:


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its baz....nuff said?...


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 23, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> We should have never gone in, but we did. We need to stay until it is fully safe.
> "Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president the Pottery Barn rule," Kerry told Jim Lehrer and 62 million viewers, "'If you break it, you fix it."'



Yeah?  And how long is that going to take?  Another 20 years?  30 years?  40?  We're still in fucking Korea and half of Europe from those wars.

You're yet another dishonest left tard who became a war hawk the moment Trump decided he wanted to try and get us out of foreign wars, you know, the exact policy you people claimed to have wanted for how many years now?


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Dec 23, 2019)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
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And you discuss that in that thread.  This is about Afghanistan. Stay on topic


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## TNHarley (Dec 23, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Gdjjr said:
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Trash? Look at that faggot in your profile pic. 
Is he a southerner?


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## ph3iron (Dec 23, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...


And 2 UK efforts


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## bigrebnc1775 (Dec 23, 2019)

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Gdjjr said:
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Not so fast
Eight of 10 Americans Support Ground War in Afghanistan


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## Andylusion (Dec 23, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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So any other words, your assumption, and unsupported historical claim, is all you need to declare this a Taliban win.

When Osama went to Pakistan is debatable.   The Taliban itself was in Pakistsan too.

Whether he went to Pakistan before or after the Bush invasion is debatable, but regardless we did not know exactly where he was, and it was widely believed that he was under the care of the Taliban.

Further, only cowards use the 20/20 hind sight, to declare wrong actions.   It does not matter what we know in retrospect, because.....  idiot.... we didn't know that at the time.

The operation was the correct course of action, given the information we had at that time.

That's how life works.  You can't operate based on future knowledge that we don't have, because we don't have it.    If the positions were reversed, and you are the one being condemned, based on information you didn't have, you would be outraged at the unfairness of that.

But like all cowards, pretty easy sitting behind your computer criticizing people with knowledge they didn't know.
And we don't even know if you are right.  Osama might have been there, and might not.   But this idea that pathetic snots, who have never had to own the responsibility of a choice in their life, sitting around crying real men who make decisions.... really sad.


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## flacaltenn (Dec 23, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...



This OP can only be written by a huge tool of partisan politics... There was NO CHOICE but to go into Afghanistan after 9/11... Cleaning up the remnants of Al Queda there... Deposing the Taliban for making the bad choice of allowing that group to train and shelter there.  

The problem was always that USA sucks at setting goals for victory.. And YOU SUCK at honesty about YOUR solution to the problem.. Don't think you have an alternate scenario that allows you to skate off as a hero without putting Obama into this picture... OR -- a CONSISTENT view of what America's foreign war committments should look like... 

You're just chucking shit at latest Admin that is making the hard decisions.. 

*You want to sign up --- go over there and give America the victory it deserves?? * You probably have a bone spur or something --- Right???


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## Olde Europe (Dec 24, 2019)

flacaltenn said:


> This OP can only be written by a huge tool of partisan politics... There was NO CHOICE but to go into Afghanistan after 9/11... Cleaning up the remnants of Al Queda there... Deposing the Taliban for making the bad choice of allowing that group to train and shelter there.



Bush should have agreed OBL be handed over to a third country to be tried.  The CIA could still have hunted him down if they wouldn't have hanged him.  No one would have objected seriously had some al Qaeda training camps been reduced to rubble.  After that horrible crime on 9/11, basically the whole world would have stood behind the U.S. of A., and behind pretty much every intelligent effort at eradicating AQ, and that depraved version of Islam would have suffered a devastating blow.

Instead, because "NO CHOICE", there's 20 years of war, and the end result, except for a six-figure body count in Afghanistan alone (not to mention Iraq), looks desperately as if Afghanistan is about to get what was there before, the Taliban taking over, town by town, province by province, and two decades wasted.

Yeah, "NO CHOICE".  Frankly, Flac, I sort of, kind of, understand in a moment of grief and rage imbecilic decisions are being made, namely, what should largely have been a police- and intelligence-driven operation was declared a war, and conducted as a war.  Stupid, stupid, and interminably stupid.  The effects of that stupidity we get to observe these days in the form of complete failure.  Still, the CIA had to hunt down OBL, had to hunt down his henchmen, and the deposed Taliban will take over completely when, at long last, the U.S. slinks out of town.

What I do not, cannot understand is that same pap repeated on here, on this day, that led into the tragedy of Afghanistan, with almost two decades' worth of distance to the original event that entailed it.  Is learning something from this utter failure due to nothing so much as imperial arrogance and stupidity really not a option?  

BTW, if Trump actually gets the U.S. out of Afghanistan, I will, for once, for the first time, laud him for doing the right thing (albeit probably for all the wrong reasons).


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Dec 24, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...



It was Bush and Trump fault but Obama had no part in the failure?

So what the fuck was Obama doing with our troops in Afghanistan those eight years he was in office?


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## Baz Ares (Dec 25, 2019)

flacaltenn said:


> Baz Ares said:
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DOPer WEAK Spew.
There was the better choice we all know as where this all ended. There were never any good out comings going into either place. FYI: Osama was living well seems all the time in another nation! Can you DOPers MORONS name this nation, with nukes?
Drone attacks and seal teams were the best options. With the CIA and others in support. FUCK the wasteful DHS. What have they ever do right for us? Some terrorists took over the planes in a terrorist attack, that's all. NO NATION ATTACKED US!
Beefing up plane security would have been all that was needed, and saving untolled trillions.
But welfare soldiers dying/or wounded seems fitting for playing the Gobmint long term welfare programs.

SO DOPers, SING ALL TOGETHER NOW!

*Afghanistan...defeated both Russian and American invasions..WHEE! Afghanistan...defeated both Russian and American invasions..WHEE! We DOPers Suck it all the time with spews. As we are the worse American of all.*

*I say this can be a top 10 Military song.*
*MAGA, We are the DOPers. We are the losers.*
*Sound-off; 1 - 2; Sound-off; 3 - 4; Cadence count; 1 - 2 - 3 - 4; 1 - 2 — 3 - 4.*


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## toobfreak (Dec 25, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


> As the USA Bails on Dubya's failed war in Afghanistan and the other one in Iraq.
> Seems these two nations beat the losers here of the American armed forces. Putin Wins again!
> 
> Trump admin intends to announce Afghanistan withdrawal of 4,000 troops
> ...




There is no war.  There is no chance.  Maybe you are fighting a war but America is merely exercising a police action according to the constraints of the international community who value innocent lives over beating Persian dogs at any cost.  If it were just a matter of kicking ass, the USA could take Afghanistan in 24 hours.  But then, what is there but dirt?  You've won dirt.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 25, 2019)

toobfreak said:


> Baz Ares said:
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So the USA loses another police action, then? OOPS!


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## toobfreak (Dec 25, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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America never loses.  We just lose interest.  You'd be smart not to invite us back.


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## flacaltenn (Dec 25, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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You're still avoiding ANY intellectual honesty about this entire topic.. YOU have no plan.. Never did.. Eight years of the same failed nation propping under the PREVIOUS Blue Team leadership and we didn't hear a squeak out of your mealy mouth.,.. 

I don't hate you for being partisan parrot.. I hate you for being the ultimate hypocrite... And the REAL loser in this sorry thread....


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## flacaltenn (Dec 25, 2019)

toobfreak said:


> Baz Ares said:
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When you break it -- can't fix it -- and all the prize is -- is dirt --- 

You HAVE no policy for a police or military action anymore... Should have put a dedicated spy satellite up for Afganistan and left about 7 or 8 years ago...


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## toobfreak (Dec 26, 2019)

flacaltenn said:


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Probably right, but then, we all know how the military loves to play with its toys and justify its budget, that and the fact that I think maybe half the people working in intelligence/military are there in the first place because they are all latent paranoiacs who feed off the fear that everyone is out to get them yet never seem to be looking at the right people in the right places at the right time, but somehow have time to spy on the 99.9% they don't need to worry about because we are fundamentally incompetent at telling the real bad guys from the rest of us.


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## there4eyeM (Dec 26, 2019)

Afghanistan is a place where life is and always has been painful and short. Add to that the dominant religion assuring the faithful a direct path to heaven if dying a martyr, and the perfect formula for getting men to fight is in place. 
American soldiers want to live. They also know they're not where they should be.


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## flacaltenn (Dec 26, 2019)

toobfreak said:


> yet never seem to be looking at the right people in the right places at the right time, but somehow have time to spy on the 99.9% they don't need to worry about because we are fundamentally incompetent at telling the real bad guys from the rest of us.



A great example of that is the Syria War.. 41 diff factions in that scuffle.. Including Iran and Russia.. Whoever we chose to train there for years was a mistake due to identifying the friendlies.. 

Afganistan should have been put under unique 24/7/365 surveillance from space.. We have that capability.. Just need a dedicated asset in space.. Would have been cheaper and saved us the human cost of keeping that pile of dirt - terrorist camp free...  Can read license plates and tee shirts from 100 miles up.. Would have been a better ending to the incursion that really DID have to happen...


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## Baz Ares (Dec 26, 2019)

toobfreak said:


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Tell me more about are winning the Vietnam war, FYI I'm not a WEAK moron stupid DOPer MAGA asshole sucking in ALT-Facts to feel better..
So, spew your best BS showing me how we won.


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## Baz Ares (Dec 26, 2019)

flacaltenn said:


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Hey, Master MAGA DOPer moron. I did tell a plan to win in those places.
You seem to have missed the post, did not understand the post, or fully agree was the way to win them.
And can't bring yourself to admit, as agreeing, that my plan would work BEST.
FFS!? It easily a MAGA plan in the scope of evils done to humans.


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## Robert Urbanek (Dec 27, 2019)

flacaltenn said:


> toobfreak said:
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And all the prize is dirt? Well, some interesting and valuable dirt:

*Afghanistan Sits on $1 Trillion in Minerals*

_The aerial surveys determined that Afghanistan may hold 60 million tons of copper, 2.2 billion tons of iron ore, 1.4 million tons of rare earth elements such as lanthanum, cerium and neodymium, and lodes of aluminum, gold, silver, zinc, mercury and lithium._

Source: Rare Earth: Afghanistan Sits on $1 Trillion in Minerals


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## flacaltenn (Dec 27, 2019)

Baz Ares said:


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Maybe your "brilliant plan" gets buried in the partisan cheerleading and stupidness of most of your posts... I read most of this thread and found NOTHING unique in thought or plan from you...


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## flacaltenn (Dec 27, 2019)

Robert Urbanek said:


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I've read these stories for about 8 or 10 years now.. Aerial studies are incredibly iffy for the buried stuff. Especially gold and rare metals.. But the "rare earth" deposits should have been CONFIRMED by now.  Never once read a story that they are actively mining yet... 

Even your link is 5 years old..


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## eagle1462010 (Dec 27, 2019)

8 Trillion and growing...........no end in sight............At some point you have got to say ENOUGH.......

Unless you are weapons manufacturer or stock holder on the weapons who doesn't give a shit about the human costs or damage to your country.......

Time to pull the stinking plug.......


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## flacaltenn (Dec 27, 2019)

Robert Urbanek said:


> flacaltenn said:
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Here's a 2017 take on the lack of progress or clarity about the value of the deposits... 

The race to mine Afghanistan

*For years, governments and experts have contemplated the mineral resource wealth of Afghanistan, where the US has been at war since 2001 – its longest ever conflict.

While the estimation that the country has untapped reserves to the value of $1tn has been widely disputed and downgraded given current commodity prices, Afghanistan is known to have large deposits of copper, iron ore, gold, rare earths, lapis lazuli and more.

Trump is not the first US president wanting to develop Afghanistan’s mineral reserves; both Barack Obama and George Bush tried and failed before him.

A report by the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction states that by 2009, the Department of Defense’s temporary Task Force for Business and Stability Operations and the US Agency for International Development had allocated nearly $488m to efforts to develop the extractive industries in Afghanistan. So far, there seems to be little to show for the investment.

At present, one of the largest mines in the country is the Aynak copper licence, held by a Chinese consortium of the state-owned Metallurgical Corporation of China and Jiangxi Copper Corporation. The deposit is reportedly worth upwards of $50bn but has languished undeveloped for nine years, demonstrating that mining in Afghanistan is no easy feat.

According to a report by William A Byrd from the US Institute of Peace (USIP), the delay is partly due to the consortium making unrealistic promises that would be ‘impossible or highly unprofitable to fulfil’, resulting in a need to renegotiate contract terms in its favour, which the Afghan Government has been reluctant to do. Security and inexperience appear to be additional issues, as well as the company being “rather risk averse, in contrast to the risk tolerance exhibited by experienced international mining companies in other insecure countries,” writes Byrd.

Some even doubt the value of Afghanistan’s reserves, given the difficulties and low commodity prices. Industry expert Tim Worstall wrote in Forbes recently: “And as a good enough rough guess, the costs of extracting those minerals in Afghanistan will be higher than the value of the metals once extracted. That is, the deposits have no economic value.”*


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