# Gun crime across England and Wales up 23%,driven mostly by handguns, which are banned,



## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

Yep....new crime stats from Britain...and this is on top of the fact that gun crime in the City of London is up 42%.....

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

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More alarmingly, the statisticians say the rise in crime is accelerating, with a 3% increase recorded in the year to March 2015, followed by an 8% rise in the following year, and now a 10% increase in the 12 months to this March.


And in America...where we didn't ban and confiscate guns from normal people.....?

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600  million guns in private hands and over 16.3  million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


*-- gun murder down 49%*
*--gun crime down 75%*
*--violent crime down 72%*

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John  R. Lott :: SSRN
=======


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## miketx (Jul 22, 2017)

What? You mean criminals refuse to obey laws?


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

*Did you hear government is going to release its stash of 1911s?
Now that is good news!*


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## gipper (Jul 22, 2017)

One of the few good things we can all agree about Obama, is he was a fantastically good handgun salesman.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> *Did you hear government is going to release its stash of 1911s?
> Now that is good news!*


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

JimBowie1958 said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > *Did you hear government is going to release its stash of 1911s?
> > Now that is good news!*


Can't link on my tablet but it's true!


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

Nonetheless, citizens in England and Wales are far safer than in America from gun violence.

It would take the Isle almost forty years to catch up with America with your statistics.

Are you one of those gun nuts?


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Nonetheless, citizens in England and Wales are far safer than in America from gun violence.
> 
> It would take the Isle almost forty years to catch up with America with your statistics.
> 
> Are you one of those gun nuts?


*Define gun nut.*


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## August West (Jul 22, 2017)

gipper said:


> One of the few good things we can all agree about Obama, is he was a fantastically good handgun salesman.


Goobers drooling for a race war spent a lot of their welfare money prepping for a war that never came. Imbeciles!


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## jon_berzerk (Jul 22, 2017)

JimBowie1958 said:


> DarkFury said:
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> > *Did you hear government is going to release its stash of 1911s?
> > Now that is good news!*




here it is 

The United States House of Representatives has just passed their version of the 2018 National DefenseAuthorization Act (NDAA), and included within it is a provision that will mandate the release of all M1911handguns currently in US Army inventory to the Civilian Marksmanship Program, for distribution to eligible US civilians. The new bill would overwrite the 2016 NDAA, which allowed for the release of 10,000 of the pistols, but did not mandate it. The text of Section 1064 of the 2018 NDAA is as follows:

SEC. 1064. TRANSFER OF SURPLUS FIREARMS TO CORPORATION FOR THE PROMOTION OF RIFLE PRACTICE AND FIREARMS SAFETY.
(a) In General.—Section 40728(h) of title 36, United States Code, is amended—pistols.”; and

(3) by striking paragraph (2).

(b) Termination Of Pilot Program.—Section 1087 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2016 (Public Law 114–92; 129 Stat. 1012) is amended by striking subsections (b) and (c).


BREAKING: House Passes Bill MANDATING Transfer of ALL US Army M1911 Handguns to the CMP - The Firearm Blog


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


> gipper said:
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> > One of the few good things we can all agree about Obama, is he was a fantastically good handgun salesman.
> ...


And President Trump has been rolling back regulations so we can even better arm ourself!


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## miketx (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


> gipper said:
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> > One of the few good things we can all agree about Obama, is he was a fantastically good handgun salesman.
> ...


It's always lies and slanders from you losers, isn't it? I just bought  brand new 1911 made in Israel, and joined the NRA!

England where the fools allowed the government to make self defense illegal and invited 7th century barbarians to rape them and elected one mayor!

As far as those CMP 1911's, I'll bet they want a fortune for them.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


> MarkClaude said:
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> > Nonetheless, citizens in England and Wales are far safer than in America from gun violence.
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Are you a gun nut?  The definition is common knowledge.


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## DarkFury (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


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*No it's not. I don't speak liberal. Define it.*


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


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I am not a liberal, and, no, you are not a mainstream conservative.  Yes, you are a gun nut.  DarkFury, no one is coming to confiscate your weapons.


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## August West (Jul 22, 2017)

DarkFury said:


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Indeed! He made it easier to arm the mentally ill. Just how fucking dumb are you anyway that you think this is a good idea?


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## miketx (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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More lies and slander. Prove your nonsense!


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## August West (Jul 22, 2017)

miketx said:


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It`s neither nonsense or slander. Here you go.
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-set-overturn-guns-mental-health-regulation-557237http:/
You FOX viewers don`t know shit and that too is a proven fact.

STUDY: Watching Only Fox News Makes You Less Informed Than Watching No News At All


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## miketx (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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Oh my! The biased media prints it and you swallow it hook line and sinker. No matter what you liars say or do, come get them!


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## gipper (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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Can't fix stupid.


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## August West (Jul 22, 2017)

miketx said:


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Trump attacked our first amendment too. How`s that working out for him? Should there be a ban on reporting the results of university studies that confirm the ignorance of FOX viewers? What is it that I`m supposed to come and get btw?


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## gipper (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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Fox News has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  Stop being stupid, if you can.


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## jon_berzerk (Jul 22, 2017)

gipper said:


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you are asking the impossible


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## HereWeGoAgain (Jul 22, 2017)

They obviously need to refresh their ban or maybe a double ban.
That'll work for sure this time.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Nonetheless, citizens in England and Wales are far safer than in America from gun violence.
> 
> It would take the Isle almost forty years to catch up with America with your statistics.
> 
> Are you one of those gun nuts?




You, like many anti gunners miss the point.  England had a low gun murder rate, and a low gun crime rate before they banned and confiscated guns for normal, law abiding people.  Banning guns for law abiding people did not effect their gun crime rate.  In fact, their gun murder rate went up after the ban, then a few years ago returned to the same level it was at before the ban....which shows their gun control laws didn't change anything.

Now...after decades of single teenage girls raising young males without fathers, their culture can no longer keep them civilized, just like here.......and now that their criminals want guns, they are using them more often, despite their gun control laws....

Gun crime in England and Wales is up 23%, after they banned guns.....gun crime in London, their capitol...is up 42%.....

The other effect of their gun ban...their people are defenseless against attack...and their violent crime rates have gone through the roof......

Our gun crime, gun murder, and violent crime rates in the same period, with more people buying and actually carrying guns...all went down....

*This is what happened after Britain banned guns....*

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.
The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016.
Knife crime also increased by 24% with 12,074 recorded offences from 2016 to 2017.
============
7/1/17...

Terrifying weapons haul destined for London seized at Channel Tunnel

This is a terrifying haul of lethal handguns destined for London crime gangs which were seized by officials at the Channel Tunnel terminal in France.

They were discovered in concealed compartments in a trailer attached to a Mercedes van as it prepared to enter the tunnel at the Coquelles terminal.

Border Force officials swooped after a joint investigation by the National Crime Agency and detectives from Scotland Yard’s organised crime unit.

Searches revealed a cache of 79 “viable” 4mm and 6mm handguns and a large quantity of ammunition, all hidden in specially adapted concealments in engine blocks.

Detectives believe the weapons had been smuggled from eastern Europe to be sold to organised crime gangs in London. 

========================

Gun and knife crime soaring in London, official figures show

More worryingly, there was also a rise in the number of guns being fired on London’s streets, up from 239 cases in 2015/16 to 306 cases in the last financial year.

There was also a 20 per cent increase in the rate of knife attacks involving injuries to victims, up from 3,663 to 4,415 in 2016/17.

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“We are concerned about the rise of gun crime and rise of knife crime offences committed by young people and the changing nature of the offenders. “

He said there was evidence that more young people are carrying knives for a variety of reasons including status, criminality and self-protection but said only around a quarter are affiliated with gangs. 

He said police were focusing on reducing stabbings by taking weapons and dangerous offenders off the streets and trying to prevent and divert people from crime.
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“With double-digit growth in gun and knife crime  - and a youth homicide almost every fortnight -  the crime challenge for London is real and serious and has serious impacts for London’s most disadvantaged communities.”
He added: “With 600 victims of serious youth violence each month, the Met needs a new plan to tackle the violence on our capital’s streets if they are to help impoverished communities. 
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Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

*The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.*

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys *all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.*

*






*
*This is what happened in the U.S. as more Americans bought, own and actually carry guns...*

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600  million guns in private hands and over 16.3  million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...

*-- gun murder down 49%*
*--gun crime down 75%*
*--violent crime down 72%*

*http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/*
*
Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
Concealed carry permit number....
New Study: Over 16.3 million concealed handgun permits, last year saw the largest increase ever in number of permits - Crime Prevention Research Center

actual study...

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2017 by John  R. Lott :: SSRN
=====*


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


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You don't follow this issue do you?  Obama stacked the courts with anti-gun judges and justices....they are making rulings that are making the 2nd Amendment pointless...the 4th Circuit just ruled that the 2nd Amendment doesn't protect weapons that have been used by the military, in a ruling banning guns that were never used by the military....the 9th ruled that you the government doesn't have to allow you to carry a gun for self defense....in the face of the Heller decision.....the anti gunners are coming for guns through the courts........


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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No.....the ACLU and 23 other mental health organizations did that...

Gun Control Laws Should Be Fair

But gun control laws, like any law, should be fair, effective and not based on prejudice or stereotype. This rule met none of those criteria.

In this era of “alternative facts,” we must urge politicians to create laws based on reliable evidence and solid data.

The thousands of Americans whose disability benefits are managed by someone else range from young people with depression and financial inexperience to older adults with Down syndrome needing help with a limited budget. But no data — none — show that these individuals have a propensity for violence in general or gun violence in particular.

To the contrary, studies show that people with mental disabilities are _less_ likely to commit firearm crimes than to be the _victims_of violence by others.

--------------------------
The ACLU and 23 national disability groups did not oppose this rule because we want more guns in our community. This is about more than guns. Adding more innocent Americans to the National Instant Criminal Background database because of a mental disability is a disturbing trend — one that could be applied to voting, parenting or other rights dearer than gun ownership. We opposed it because it would do little to stem gun violence but do much to harm our civil rights.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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And the ACLU supports it...

Gun Control Laws Should Be Fair

But gun control laws, like any law, should be fair, effective and not based on prejudice or stereotype. This rule met none of those criteria.

In this era of “alternative facts,” we must urge politicians to create laws based on reliable evidence and solid data.

The thousands of Americans whose disability benefits are managed by someone else range from young people with depression and financial inexperience to older adults with Down syndrome needing help with a limited budget. But no data — none — show that these individuals have a propensity for violence in general or gun violence in particular.

To the contrary, studies show that people with mental disabilities are _less_ likely to commit firearm crimes than to be the _victims_of violence by others.

--------------------------
The ACLU and 23 national disability groups did not oppose this rule because we want more guns in our community. This is about more than guns. Adding more innocent Americans to the National Instant Criminal Background database because of a mental disability is a disturbing trend — one that could be applied to voting, parenting or other rights dearer than gun ownership. We opposed it because it would do little to stem gun violence but do much to harm our civil rights.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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How did he attack the 1st Amendmen?t....did he take the freedom of religion away from bakers, pizza makers, and wedding photographers...no, obama did that....

How exactly did Trump attack the first amendment?....did he riot to keep speakers off of college campuses like bernie and hilary supporters did?  


Did he hire bob craemer and scot foval to incite riots at Trump rallies.....the way the democrat national committe, the hilary campaign and obama did?

Do you mean like that?


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## gipper (Jul 22, 2017)

2aguy said:


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You blew his mind. He knows nothing of what you speak.


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## theHawk (Jul 22, 2017)

2aguy said:


> Yep....new crime stats from Britain...and this is on top of the fact that gun crime in the City of London is up 42%.....
> 
> Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show
> 
> ...



The spike in crimes also corresponds to the increase in Muslim population.  You cannot overlook that.


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## August West (Jul 22, 2017)

2aguy said:


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How did Trump attack the first amendment? By calling the free press the enemy of the people dumbass. The people that are chasing your Nazi friends off of college campuses are NOT the president of the U.S.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

MikeTx is now engaging in nonsense.  Prove your point, faux Texan.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

theHawk said:


> 2aguy said:
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> > Yep....new crime stats from Britain...and this is on top of the fact that gun crime in the City of London is up 42%.....
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Culture there as does our white opioid epidemic here infect each country.

However, it will take UK forty years to become as dangerous as us.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

Oh my, the far right and libertarian leaning idiots cannot stand the truth.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

August West said:


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No...dumb ass...that is him exercising his freedom of speach....asswipe.  It is your morons, on your side who are shutting down free speech on college campuses with violence, attacks against other people, and destruction of property....blocking entrances to lecture halls, pounding on walls to silence speakers, pulling fire alarms........

It is your side sending violent people into Trump rallies, under the direction of bob craemer and scot foval...two men who were working for the Democrat National Committee, taking fucking orders from their director of Special events, and they cooridnated their attacks on Trump rallies with the hilary campaign...

It is your assholes who tried to murder republican congressmen...a bernie sanders suppprter....

it is your assholes, who are murdering police.....

it is your assholes suing Religious people so they lose their businesses when they try to practice their freedom of religion, protected by the 1st Amendment......

Those are attacks on the 1st amendment, asswipe....actual attacks to silence the first Amendment...


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


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Wrong...their country is more dangerous than our country is...their criminals just haven't been murdering each other as often as our have.....70-80% of our gun murder victims are criminals engaged in criminal activity......in Britain, the criminals over there haven't been murdering each other....that has now changed.....


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Oh my, the far right and libertarian leaning idiots cannot stand the truth.





What truth would that be....?   You have been shown the truth, the facts and the reality.......actual facts.....so now you pretend to score some sort of point....


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

2aguy said:


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You are a gun nut then.  You are concerned about weapons of war, and what that means, although there is no problem.  There is no issue.  Firearms are not being confiscated, are not being seized, and are not in danger of being seized.  You probably don't realize the stats in the UK demonstrate they are about 40 years out before the catch up with us in the USA.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

2aguy said:


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An asswip of a President who attacks the free press and the asswipes who defend him are enemies of the 1st Amendment.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


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You are new.....you haven't researched this issue, so you are ignorant of the facts.   The point.....the U.K. banned and confiscated guns in 1996 telling the British people it would make them safer.......21 years....there was no change in their gun murder rate, except it spiked for 10 years, and there was no change in their gun crime rate, which is going up, not down.....gun control for normal, law abiding people did nothing to the gun crime rate in Britain except to increase it...

We did the exact opposite....and all of our gun crime statistics went down....

So you don't know what you are talking about.

As to confiscation....the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has attacked the right to carry guns for self defense...in defiance of the Heller decision.

The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that military weapons....are not protected by the 2nd Amendment, allowing a ban on rifles with magazines to stay in effect in New Jersey.....a decision that goes against the 2nd Amendment and the Heller decision....

You don't know the issue.....so please, read up, get informed, and then we can take your posts seriously.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


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How did he attack the first Amendment?


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

One, I am new to USMB but not to gun issues.  I know as much or more than you and am far more rational.  We are in a safe place right now per the 2d, and SCOTUS will rule properly on weapons of war.

Two, you are dancing on the UK stats.  It will be forty years before and if they catch up with us.  We are going to need to get our opioid epidemic under control, along with meth and heroin and cocaine, to have a serious chance of getting our violence issue under control.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> One, I am new to USMB but not to gun issues.  I know as much or more than you and am far more rational.  We are in a safe place right now per the 2d, and SCOTUS will rule properly on weapons of war.
> 
> Two, you are dancing on the UK stats.  It will be forty years before and if they catch up with us.  We are going to need to get our opioid epidemic under control, along with meth and heroin and cocaine, to have a serious chance of getting our violence issue under control.




That you use the Term "Weapons of War" reveals that you are in the anti-2nd Amendment camp.  Every single type of gun has been a weapon of war, from the pump action shotgun, still in use...to the 6 shot revolver to the lever action rifle.

You are not aware of the rulings by the 9th Circuit on "Shall issue" laws or the 4th Circuit gutting the Heller decision and the 2nd Amendment.

It will not be 40 years...their rates of violence have gone through the roof and they are cutting their police funding to prop up their social welfare programs.......and they are handicapping their police with political correct attacks...so no, they are going to be rushing to catch up to our crime rates....that...and the fact that their singel teenage girls are having more children without fathers...which creates young males with little impulse control and little empathy for other human beings...the stabbings and acid attacks all over England show this sociopathic behavior.....


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> One, I am new to USMB but not to gun issues.  I know as much or more than you and am far more rational.  We are in a safe place right now per the 2d, and SCOTUS will rule properly on weapons of war.
> 
> Two, you are dancing on the UK stats.  It will be forty years before and if they catch up with us.  We are going to need to get our opioid epidemic under control, along with meth and heroin and cocaine, to have a serious chance of getting our violence issue under control.




Hey...how about you lay out your stances on the various gun issues for us.....?  Let us go over what we each think and see where you actually stand....it is easy to say that you are rational....then lay it out, and explain the laws you want, and why they would work.....I have over and over here on U.S. message....do us the favor and do the same thing.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

The term weapons of war is used by the courts, and you are no acceptable decider of what is appropriate or not, 2aguy.  You are a joke on this issue, as others have pointed out to me.

You have no control of your impulses.

We have no gun problem in America in terms of gun grabbers.

Your stats in the UK are nonsense in terms of actual danger there.


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## 2aguy (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> The term weapons of war is used by the courts, and you are no acceptable decider of what is appropriate or not, 2aguy.  You are a joke on this issue, as others have pointed out to me.
> 
> You have no control of your impulses.
> 
> ...



So..you don't want to actually put out what you believe in guns...got it......and yes...using "weapons of war" to talk about guns immediately pegs you for a gun grabber.......thanks for playing...


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

2aguy said:


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> > The term weapons of war is used by the courts, and you are no acceptable decider of what is appropriate or not, 2aguy.  You are a joke on this issue, as others have pointed out to me.
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Only an illiterate like you would think so.


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## HenryBHough (Jul 22, 2017)

Obvious fake news.

Guns are tightly controlled in all of The United Kingdom so only responsible, licensed, vetted and pure-at-heart people have guns.  And, of course, selected police.

So, you see, the alleged shootings never happened.  Just fake news from folks afraid of everything but the crushing weight of excessive laws.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

Who are you, HenryBHough?  Are you over eighty? ninety?  Because what you said makes no sense.

You must a purveyor of Alt Facts and Fake News from the far right.


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## HenryBHough (Jul 22, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Who are you, HenryBHough?  Are you over eighty? ninety?  Because what you said makes no sense.
> 
> You must a purveyor of Alt Facts and Fake News from the far right.



Does all of reality elude you or just anything concerning firearms?


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## MarkClaude (Jul 22, 2017)

HenryBHough said:


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> > Who are you, HenryBHough?  Are you over eighty? ninety?  Because what you said makes no sense.  You must be a purveyor of Alt Facts and Fake News from the far right.
> ...


So you have trouble comprehending basic matters now.  OK.


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## JimBowie1958 (Jul 22, 2017)

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I thought you were referring to the UK government.


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## jon_berzerk (Jul 22, 2017)

JimBowie1958 said:


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the uk is hopelessly lost


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## miketx (Jul 24, 2017)

August West said:


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When seconds count...police are minutes away.....


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## 2aguy (Jul 24, 2017)

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Or....as happened in several cities...the police are told to stand down....


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 24, 2017)

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No because the wacko gun control freaks call anyone who owns even one firearm a "gun nut"


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 24, 2017)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> They obviously need to refresh their ban or maybe a double ban.
> That'll work for sure this time.


How about double secret probation?


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## DarkFury (Jul 24, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > DarkFury said:
> ...


*You notice he can fling a term but when asked to define it he runs. Guess he no speaka da English eh?*


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 24, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


where do you live because crime in my county is near ZERO as it is in large portions of the country


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## martybegan (Jul 24, 2017)

August West said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > One of the few good things we can all agree about Obama, is he was a fantastically good handgun salesman.
> ...



One doesn't prepare for Race war by getting hand guns, race war requires long guns. 

/sarcasm


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## MikeK (Jul 24, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Nonetheless, citizens in England and Wales are far safer than in America from gun violence.
> 
> It would take the Isle almost forty years to catch up with America with your statistics.
> 
> Are you one of those gun nuts?


Does your revelation consider the fact that American gun violence is the very reason we were able to seize control of our Nation and kick the British Army out?  America was born in a cloud of gunsmoke -- and it wouldn't be America without it.

Yes there is some level of gun violence every year.  But while we deeply regret that it remains a risk real Americans are willing to take and a price we are willing to pay.


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## OnePercenter (Jul 24, 2017)

Where are the guns coming from?


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## MarkClaude (Jul 25, 2017)

MikeK said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > Nonetheless, citizens in England and Wales are far safer than in America from gun violence.
> ...


Look up non sequitur, please.

The false comparison means absolutely nothing in the 21st century.

So by default you admit that the UK citizens are far safer than our from gun violence.  Well, we all know that, yes.


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## 2aguy (Jul 25, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...




The British people didn't have much gun violence before they banned and confiscated guns.......they didn't need to pass any gun laws to make that happen.  Now, they banned and confiscated guns....and their gun crime rate is going up, and their violent crime rate is through the roof...so their gun laws didn't make them safer.....in fact, normal Brits are victims of violent crime at a rate higher than our people are.  It used to be too, that their criminals wouldn't murder each other, while 70-80% of our gun murder victims are criminals, but that is now changing too......their criminals are now shooting to kill, not wound or scare.......

And the thing is....they are cutting their police budgets, to pay for social welfare, and their culture is now overwhelmed by single teenage girls raising young males, creating violent sociopaths.....so their gun laws will be ignored, and their people will be defenseless in the face of these barbarians........


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## 2aguy (Jul 25, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...




After banning and confiscating guns...this is what the British face...gun crime across England and Wales up 23%...in London....up 42%........

Gun crime in the U.S.....

Gun murder down 42%
Gun crime down 75%
Violent crime down 72%

Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

M*inisters will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% t*o 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns. Knife crime has also jumped by 20% to 34,703 incidents – the highest level for seven years. The largest increase in knife crime came in London, which accounted for 40% of the rise.

Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

G*un crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.*
The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016.
Knife crime also increased by 24% with 12,074 recorded offences from 2016 to 2017.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 25, 2017)

None of 2aguy's stats recognize that (1) UK citizens are far safer from gun violence than US citizens, and (2) will be so for many, many years to come.


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## 2aguy (Jul 25, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> None of 2aguy's stats recognize that (1) UK citizens are far safer from gun violence than US citizens, and (2) will be so for many, many years to come.




Gun crime didn't change after they banned guns.....gun control laws had nothing to do with their crime rate...so taking guns away from normal people was stupid.  Now, their criminals want guns....and they are getting guns, so their gun crime rates are going up.....and their gun control laws aren't doing anything to stop it...on an island nation......that banned and confiscated guns....


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 25, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> None of 2aguy's stats recognize that (1) UK citizens are far safer from gun violence than US citizens, and (2) will be so for many, many years to come.



So what?

Move to the fucking UK an bend your knee to the royals like a good little sheep


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## MarkClaude (Jul 25, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > None of 2aguy's stats recognize that (1) UK citizens are far safer from gun violence than US citizens, and (2) will be so for many, many years to come.
> ...



You must be a libertarian who understands the Constitution differently than the great majority of your peers.

OK.

No, I am American, and here I will remain.


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## MikeK (Jul 25, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Look up non sequitur, please.
> 
> The false comparison means absolutely nothing in the 21st century.
> 
> So by default you admit that the UK citizens are far safer than our from gun violence.  Well, we all know that, yes.


The inmates of any prison are even safer.  No gun violence at all in any prison I've ever heard of.  So if safety from gun violence is your concern Leavenworth is one good choice.  If you prefer a more conventional social environment I understand there is little to no gun violence at all in North Korea.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...


Great just what we need another whiner

and FYI I am not a libertarian a republican or a democrat I unlike you am a free thinker


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
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Defining not whining what you are, Skull Pilot.  Call yourself as you will, big deal.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...



it's better everywhere but the US
I'm so scared that it's too dangerous here

And you say that's not whining?



I don't know where you live that crime is so high but where I live it's almost nonexistent


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

That's what you are saying, Skull Pilot, not me.  If you are scared, move.

The facts, free thinker, clearly show the UK is safer than here.  That's fact.

Stop your whining.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> That's what you are saying, Skull Pilot, not me.  If you are scared, move.



Who is the one saying it's so dangerous in the US

Not me


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > That's what you are saying, Skull Pilot, not me.  If you are scared, move.
> ...


That's you saying it is so dangerous, not me.  I have pointed out thatit is safer in the UK.  Why do you have a problem with the truth.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...



No that's me mocking you for being so afraid.

I know that our higher murder rates are skewed by a few urban shit holes where gang violence contributes to 70% of our country's murder rates.
I know that 2% of all the counties in this country account for more than 50% of all murders

The part of the country where I live has a lower murder and crime rate than the UK so no people in the UK are not safer than I am.

Those are the facts


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


Skull Pilot, it is obvious that you are all balk but no walk.

You mock like the fool you are all you want.  Since you are fine with the 2d as interpreted by the far right gun nuts, then you are fine with the killings in the inner cities.


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## 2aguy (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> That's what you are saying, Skull Pilot, not me.  If you are scared, move.
> 
> The facts, free thinker, clearly show the UK is safer than here.  That's fact.
> 
> Stop your whining.




The U.K. is not safer, the violence levels are through the roof, they just don't murder you...they pour boiling water over your head, stab you, throw acid in your face, rape, robbery,......they just don't commit murder as often....but you are more likely to be a crime victim there than here.......


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

2aguy, put up the comparisons annually and you know the stats will show that per capita average Brits are 7 to 10 times safer than Americans.

We have crazies in America, as well, with water, and acid, and knives, and guns, and rape, and robbery.

You just are not convincing.


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## 2aguy (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> 2aguy, put up the comparisons annually and you know the stats will show that per capita average Brits are 7 to 10 times safer than Americans.
> 
> We have crazies in America, as well, with water, and acid, and knives, and guns, and rape, and robbery.
> 
> You just are not convincing.




Their crime rate was already twice ours.......now it is skyrocketing...

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

*The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.*

*




*


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## 2aguy (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> 2aguy, put up the comparisons annually and you know the stats will show that per capita average Brits are 7 to 10 times safer than Americans.
> 
> We have crazies in America, as well, with water, and acid, and knives, and guns, and rape, and robbery.
> 
> You just are not convincing.




Even British sources say you are wrong....

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Daily Mail Online

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.

Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.


In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.


The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 92 and South Africa 1,609.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

You are misstating their rates and their implications.

An American is much more safer in Britain than a Brit in America.  Fact, and you can't get away from that.


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## 2aguy (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> You are misstating their rates and their implications.
> 
> An American is much more safer in Britain than a Brit in America.  Fact, and you can't get away from that.




Tell that to George Clooney and his wife...they can pay for the best ex-S.A.S. trigger pullers and MI-6 security experts as well as have the best security measures in the world...and they are leaving Britain to come home....because they are afraid....


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

2aguy said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > You are misstating their rates and their implications.
> ...


No, they are not.  You are, though, right along with Skull Pilot.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...


I am not and never will be responsible for the acts of criminals it matters not if I happen to own firearms since my firearms do not and will not contribute to the crime and/or the murder rate.


and you have no clue as to my interpretation of the second amendment

But I guess I'm not running around whining abut how dangerous the US is and wishing we were more like the UK so a two dimensional thinker such as yourself must say I am "far right" in order to have the world make sense within the bounds of your limited intelligence


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> You are misstating their rates and their implications.
> 
> An American is much more safer in Britain than a Brit in America.  Fact, and you can't get away from that.



More safer?

 English isn't your first language is it?


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 26, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...



Afraid of what exactly?

You're the one afraid of crime since you constantly whine that the UK is so much safer.  So move there if you think it's better.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > You are misstating their rates and their implications.
> ...


Lol the grammar nazi jumped on a minor error because he cannot debate the topic with any success.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 26, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > 2aguy said:
> ...


Yeah, you are, skulking around like a right Yosemite Sam.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 27, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...


Minor error?

And you question other people's intelligence?


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 27, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...



So what am I afraid of?

I think I am perfectly safe in this country.  You don't so it seems to me you're the one who is projecting your own fear on others


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## xband (Jul 27, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



The Ohio State Fair is not user friendly. Yesterday, a midway ride called Fire Ball flew apart killing one and injuring many with some in critical condition. The midway rides had been inspected by State officials before the fair opened. Governor Kasich immediately closed down the midway until more inspections are made. Someone should tell Kasich that preventative maintenance is much better than reactive maintenance.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 27, 2017)

xband said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...



and what does that have to do with this thread?


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## MarkClaude (Jul 27, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


I question your knowledge on almost any item.  Your deflection is noted, overruled, and thrown away.

A person is safer in England from gun crime than in America, and that is a fact.

Argue the facts, Skull Pilot.


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## MarkClaude (Jul 27, 2017)

Skull Pilot said:


> MarkClaude said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


Yosemite Sam, go shoot your guns.


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## 2aguy (Jul 27, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...




No...they are safer from gun murder ......   they have always had a lower gun crime rate, until they banned guns, now their gun crime rate is up all over the country, 23%.....and even higher in London, 42%......and their violent crime rate is way higher than our violent crime rate....and getting a lot worse, our violent crime rate is going down, theirs is going up...


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## MarkClaude (Jul 27, 2017)

Even with the rise in rates, they are safer than here, and you know that.

We are talking about other 'violent crimes'  in this  OP.  So stop it.


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## 2aguy (Jul 27, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Even with the rise in rates, they are safer than here, and you know that.
> 
> We are talking about other 'violent crimes'  in this  OP.  So stop it.




No...they aren't.  Again, their country had more violence, of all kinds than we do, the one thing they don't have to fear, for now, is gun murder......and that is now changing.....

Rape, robbery and and assault are higher there than here...


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## MarkClaude (Jul 27, 2017)

2aguy simply can't tell the truth.  Gun violence is far less in the UK than in the USA.  Once you can admit that, we can move to your other point of view.


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## 2aguy (Jul 28, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> 2aguy simply can't tell the truth.  Gun violence is far less in the UK than in the USA.  Once you can admit that, we can move to your other point of view.




No...we can't....the facts are the facts....gun crime in Britain was lower than our gun crime before they banned and confiscated guns....after they banned and confiscated guns?  Gun murder  spiked for about 10 years, and then returned to the exact same level it was at before they banned and confiscated guns....which means that taking guns away from normal, law abiging British people did not lower their gun murder rate.  Their gun crime rate in general...is going up......after they banned and confiscated guns.....it is up 23% all over Britain....and up 42% in London....after they banned and confiscated the guns that normal, law abiding British people owned...their gun control laws have done nothing to lower their gun murder rate or their gun crime rate.

And on top of that......by disarming their people, they have allowed the criminals to prey on them like sheep.....their over all violent crime rate has sky rocketed......their people are helpless in the face of violent attacks by the young male sociopaths their welfare state has created....I have posted the stats.......they show you don't know what you are talking about....and if you think that violent crime that is out of control is going to allow their murder rate to stay low, you are kidding yourself.....they are under staffing their police...to pay for other welfare programs, and they are attacking their police with politically correct policies, in order to meet a guilt quota....so there violent crime and eventually their murder rate is going to explode....


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 28, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...



A person is safer in my county than in the UK and that is a fact.

2% of all the counties in this country account for more than 50% of murders and that is a fact

The murder stats for our entire country are skewed by just a handful of ultra-violent urban shit holes and that is a fact.

But you don't understand how to interpret data as such.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 28, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > MarkClaude said:
> ...



Can't answer the question can you?

You feel so unsafe here that you whine constantly about the US being more dangerous than other countries and you are even too afraid to move to those safe havens


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## MarkClaude (Jul 28, 2017)

Skull Pilot and the OP fail in deflecting.

Gun crime across England and Wales still creates far less danger to a person than gun crime in America.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 28, 2017)

MarkClaude said:


> Skull Pilot and the OP fail in deflecting.
> 
> Gun crime across England and Wales still creates far less danger to a person than gun crime in America.



Not as reported in my county but you can't understand that and think that all the statistics are homogeneous in every section of the USA

Oh here I used a big word

the definition of homogeneous


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