# Talk to an Iraqi



## Luissa (Apr 10, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPEX0PnV-LU]YouTube - Talk to an Iraqi - This American Life - Showtime: PART 1/2[/ame]


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## Luissa (Apr 10, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPfLdxEr0jk&feature=related]YouTube - Talk to an Iraqi - This American Life - Showtime: PART 2/2[/ame]


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## rdean (Apr 10, 2010)

Listening to these dumbass, fat white guys with that stupid fucking southern accent talk about how "free" Iraq is now is just sickening.  Can you believe that guy calling Iraqi's "children" inferring that WE are their "parents".  The right wing in this country is delusional, uneducated, retarded lemmings.  Shame on them.  I'm embarrassed they call themselves "American".  I wish they would secede.

"They flew two planes into my home town".  "We have to get rid of all of them".  Can you believe it?


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## Si modo (Apr 10, 2010)

rdean said:


> Listening to these dumbass, fat white guys with that stupid fucking southern accent talk about how "free" Iraq is now is just sickening.  Can you believe that guy calling Iraqi's "children" inferring that WE are their "parents".  The right wing in this country is delusional, uneducated, retarded lemmings.  Shame on them.  I'm embarrassed they call themselves "American".  I wish they would secede.


And, then, the USA would be  a one-party state!    How cool for you and other Obama ball-suckers!


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## rdean (Apr 10, 2010)

Si modo said:


> rdean said:
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> > Listening to these dumbass, fat white guys with that stupid fucking southern accent talk about how "free" Iraq is now is just sickening.  Can you believe that guy calling Iraqi's "children" inferring that WE are their "parents".  The right wing in this country is delusional, uneducated, retarded lemmings.  Shame on them.  I'm embarrassed they call themselves "American".  I wish they would secede.
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The Democratic Party is made up of blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, gays, straights, feminists, conservatives, liberals, young, old, educated, uneducated, Muslim, Christian, Hindu.

Republicans are mostly dumb ass like you.


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## Tom Clancy (Apr 10, 2010)

Rdean is a classic example of how the Media makes Iraq out to be..  

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go back in time and compare when Saddam was in power and to today. 

Ask anybody who's been there.. (I know a few) 

I  can bet you a majority of Iraqi's prefer and actually are happy without Saddam. 

But then again, the media tells you otherwise. 

Recent posts you've made are straight out the book, nothing more than a Media Reciter. 

You gonna be Obama's personal Teleprompter?


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## Luissa (Apr 10, 2010)

You should watch the whole video, the Iraqi said it has gone from bad to worse over there.
I bet they would go back to having Sadam in power.


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## rdean (Apr 10, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Rdean is a classic example of how the Media makes Iraq out to be..
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And don't bother asking the Iraqi's what they want, fool.


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## rdean (Apr 10, 2010)

Luissa said:


> You should watch the whole video, the Iraqi said it has gone from bad to worse over there.
> I bet they would go back to having Sadam in power.



I know the Iraqi Christians feel that way.  There were 1.3 million.  Now the estimate is 3 or 4 hundred thousand.  Nearly a million Christians killed or chased out of their homeland and American Republicans say, "Good job, NOW they are free."

Christians were living in Iraq since BEFORE Islam was even a religion.  With our support, Iraq has "solved" the "Christian problem".  I can tell you how that makes me feel.


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## Tom Clancy (Apr 10, 2010)

rdean said:


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The hell? 

Oh yeahh.. the infamous picture.. 

I can play that game too


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


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Kurds.


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

I know some Iraqis here. The fact that they had to relocate to the United States tells me all I need to know about the situation there.


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## JW Frogen (Apr 11, 2010)

I suppose it all depends on which Iraqis you are talking to.

Talk to a Kurd and you will get a very different version of events than if you talk to a Sunni from the gangland home of Saddam, Tikrit. 

In the end however, most of the killing has been done by Iraqis on Iraqis. The US simply removed Saddam, the Iraqis have pretty well written most of their script from that point on.

I can't think of another major world power that would do this, remove the perceived threat and then let the country run itself, even if it runs itself into Hell.


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> remove the perceived threat and then let the country run itself



When did this happen?


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## JW Frogen (Apr 11, 2010)

2005, when Iraq came alive.


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> 2005, when Iraq came alive.



Are you referring to the rigged referendums and elections or the renewed insurgency? Puppet governance can hardly be considered an example of self-determination and the insurgency didn't exactly occur under the auspices of the US...


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## JW Frogen (Apr 11, 2010)

The puppet show script just don't play.

The 2005 government did not play to the US script, nor has the elected governments since.

Still, the Islamic world does have a habit of blaming their own failures on external forces.

This tends to happen when every aspect of your life is governed by a Big Imaginary Guy in the sky and not on your own actions.


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## rdean (Apr 11, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> I suppose it all depends on which Iraqis you are talking to.
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> Talk to a Kurd and you will get a very different version of events than if you talk to a Sunni from the gangland home of Saddam, Tikrit.
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Perceived threat?  A country, under sanctions, who had just gone through an eight year war?  A country that never attacked us? A country with almost no manufacturing nor industry?  What was the threat?

Oh, that's right.  Now I remember.  Something the Republicans made up.


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## JW Frogen (Apr 11, 2010)

No, the Republicans did not make it up, Bill Clinton signed the Iraqi Liberation Act, he perceived it as a threat, attacked them too in Desert Fox.

Indeed the threat was confirmed by Saddam himself at his own trial when he called Kuwaitis dogs and re-affirmed he would have invaded again given the chance. You remember Kuwait, the US ally? The reason we went to war in the first place?

Ask any Kurd of Saddam was a "false" threat.


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## rdean (Apr 11, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


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*Dumb fuck.  Iraqi adults can't write signs.  Do you think the kids wrote those signs?  Seriously?  They even spelled everything right? 

You're wrong, you can't play that game unless "losing" is your strategy.*


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## Si modo (Apr 11, 2010)

rdean said:


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So what part  "one party" has you so confounded?  You still want a one-party state, just like the good little fascist that you apparently are.



> ....  Republicans are mostly dumb ass like you.


After your trademark non-rebuttal rebuttal (no point to it whatsoever), I think it's cute that you say this.


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> The puppet show script just don't play.
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> The 2005 government did not play to the US script, nor has the elected governments since.


A government formed under the supervision of an occupying force is rarely, if ever, a result of true self-determination. If you believe that declaring Islam the official religion of the puppet regime or orchestrating elections means that they aren't toeing the coalition-approved line, then I've got a bridge you may be interested in purchasing. 



JW Frogen said:


> Still, the Islamic world does have a habit of blaming their own failures on external forces.


Things were going rather swimmingly until the Mongols tore through the region, were they not? Seven solid centuries of foreign intervention and occupation have had effects that can't be ignored. Our defeatism and acceptance of diluted mockeries of Islamic governance are problematic as well, however, so I agree that we're also to blame. 



JW Frogen said:


> This tends to happen when every aspect of your life is governed by a Big Imaginary Guy in the sky and not on your own actions.


God helps him who helps Him. The fact that some of us try to act in accordance with our religious beliefs doesn't mean that our actions are any less our own.


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## rdean (Apr 11, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> No, the Republicans did not make it up, Bill Clinton signed the Iraqi Liberation Act, he perceived it as a threat, attacked them too in Desert Fox.
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> Indeed the threat was confirmed by Saddam himself at his own trial when he called Kuwaitis dogs and re-affirmed he would have invaded again given the chance. You remember Kuwait, the US ally? The reason we went to war in the first place?
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> Ask any Kurd of Saddam was a "false" threat.



Saddam had an 8 year war against Iran.  Then in 1990, Saddam made a calculated plan to attack Kuwait, a very tiny oil rich country that had, at one time been part of Iraq for a couple of thousand years.  For that, Saddam got his butt kicked and what was left of his military was totally destroyed.  Just the fact that his military was destroyed so easily PROVES that he wasn't a threat to us.


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## Si modo (Apr 11, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Kalam typed it with no supporting information at all, so it MUST be true.  

Such quality debate and critical thought.


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## rdean (Apr 11, 2010)

Si modo said:


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Dipshit.  The Democratic Party is a "true coalition".  Not a single party, made up of 90% of the same race and religion.  The coalition may work together under "one banner", but it's hardly one party.  That's the problem with Republicans.  They march in lockstep.  Because they are Fascists, they think everyone is.


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## JW Frogen (Apr 11, 2010)

To my mind it would have been better for everyone if the US had set up a puppet government, one that took direct and all orders for the US for a time, like the US did in Germany and Japan post WW2. 

If you are going to re-order a society, do it.

But Bush did not do that, he removed Saddam and then said good luck, here is your freedom, use it.

And the Iraqis created their own hell, perhaps understandable after years of tyranny; they might not have known any other way. (Except the Kurds that is.)

The puppet thing is a nice slogan but it has nothing to do with reality, even the provisional government under Allawi mostly ran their own show.

You know the guy who just won an election again?

Still, I am sure long after the last US military person is gone there will be those blaming every Islamic failure on the US, for centuries.

Hell, you are still blaming the Mongols Kalim!

It is an Islamic affliction.


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## Si modo (Apr 11, 2010)

rdean said:


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[Emphasis added]  The Democratic Party isn't a party.   

Oh, and by the way, races and religions are not political parties.


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

Si modo said:


> Kalam typed it with no supporting information at all, so it MUST be true.
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> Such quality debate and critical thought.


The current Iraqi constitution was drafted by a committee appointed by the transitional government, which operated according to rules set by the Coalition Provisional Authority. Which part of this do you dispute?


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## Tom Clancy (Apr 11, 2010)

rdean said:


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And your gonna back that up how?  Just delusion right?  






rdean, crawl back into your hole.. People like you recite the Media and their bullshit.. You an intern for MSNBC?


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## Si modo (Apr 11, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Strawman much?


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> To my mind it would have been better for everyone if the US had set up a puppet government, one that took direct and all orders for the US for a time, like the US did in Germany and Japan post WW2.
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> If you are going to re-order a society, do it.


Alternatively, the West could stop meddling in the affairs of the Islamic world.



JW Frogen said:


> But Bush did not do that, he removed Saddam and then said good luck, here is your freedom, use it.


If Bush had simply ordered the assassination of Saddam Hussein and moved on without invading or occupying Iraq, you'd be correct. Unfortunately, your assessment of the situation doesn't really account for the 7-year occupation or the indirect installation of the current Iraqi puppet government by occupying coalition forces.



JW Frogen said:


> The puppet thing is a nice slogan but it has nothing to do with reality, even the provisional government under Allawi mostly ran their own show.
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> You know the guy who just won an election again?


A secularist "won" positions of political power in a puppet regime on more than one occasion? Well, color me surprised!



JW Frogen said:


> Still, I am sure long after the last US military person is gone there will be those blaming every Islamic failure on the US, for centuries.
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> Hell, you are still blaming the Mongols Kalim!


I'm doing nothing more than acknowledging history. Ignoring the consequences of centuries of foreign hegemony is silly.


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## Kalam (Apr 11, 2010)

Si modo said:


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I've outlined the reasons why I don't consider the current Iraqi regime a product of self-determination. The foundations were laid by the occupiers.


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## rdean (Apr 11, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> To my mind it would have been better for everyone if the US had set up a puppet government, one that took direct and all orders for the US for a time, like the US did in Germany and Japan post WW2.
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> If you are going to re-order a society, do it.
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Your suggestion is probably the most logical suggestion, but I suspect it wouldn't have worked anyway.  For one, this country is somewhere between 70 and 90% Christian (don't remember the exact percentage).  Bush really screwed up with he used words like "Crusades" and didn't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite.

The combination of this nation being perceived as Christian and the word "Crusades" put an end to it.


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## Si modo (Apr 11, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Oh.  Right.  The CPA that says, "Pursuant to my authority as Administrator of the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), and under the laws and usages of war, and consistent with relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions, including Resolution 1483 (2003), and Resolution 1511 (2003); Reaffirming the right of the Iraqi people, as recognized in Resolutions 1483 and 1511, to freely determine their own political future; Noting that the Law of Administration for the State of Iraq for the Transitional Period (the TAL) provides for the Iraqi people to choose their government through genuine and credible elections to be held no later than 31 January 2005; Determined to achieve the transitional goals of the TAL, including the drafting and ratification of a permanent constitution, and the establishment of an elected government under that constitution; Underscoring the need for international cooperation to achieve these goals and the essential role to be played by the United Nations and other internationally recognized experts in electoral administration; Committed to establishing an impartial and internationally recognized body of Iraqi professionals and expert advisors to coordinate and oversee genuine and credible elections in Iraq; Having consulted extensively with the Iraqi Governing Council and representatives of the United Nations, I hereby promulgate the following: ...."

That must mean 'establish a puppet government' in the Muslim mind.


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## JW Frogen (Apr 11, 2010)

Kalam said:


> I'm doing nothing more than acknowledging history. Ignoring the consequences of centuries of foreign hegemony is silly.



Wallowing and acknowledging are two different things.

Healing your wounds is not the same thing as picking at them.


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## rdean (Apr 11, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


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*I backed it up.  If those guys could read English, they never would have held up these signs:*











You show a picture of an Iraqi woman in that outfit.  At least when Saddam was in power, they could dress however they wanted.

IRAQ: Saddam Better for Women - IPS ipsnews.net

*''The U.S. administration has handpicked a few women and imposed them on people in the so-called parliament,'' *she said. ''These women are very unknown to Iraqi women. Most of them belong to the reactionary right wing parties in power and they follow their agenda, which is discriminatory against women.'' 

Women would first like to see ''an end to the military occupation which has created chaos and destruction of Iraqi society and also resulted in the daily mass killing of ordinary Iraqis.'' 

Women particularly would ''want to see security restored so at least they can go out freely without being attacked, kidnapped or having acid thrown on their face,'' Mahmoud said. ''In addition, women want equality, freedom and their rights to be recognised in the constitution, and above all to be treated as equal human beings.''
---------------Well, we know under the "Free and Democratic" Iraq, THAT'S NEVER going to happen.  Thanks Republicans.  For what you did for the people of Iraq.

You know, sometimes, "effort" just doesn't count with the results are so disastrous.


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## Si modo (Apr 11, 2010)




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## Kalam (Apr 12, 2010)

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When "freely [determining]... political future" is a process that takes place under an occupation and within a non-Islamic political framework established by foreign forces, yes, that's precisely what it means to me.


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## Si modo (Apr 12, 2010)

Kalam said:


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WTF does 'non-Islamic political framework' mean as it pertains to the Iraqi government?


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## Kalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Si modo said:


> WTF does 'non-Islamic political framework' mean as it pertains to the Iraqi government?



Iraq's political affairs are conducted within the framework of a non-Islamic form of government. Occupying forces laid the foundations for the political structure of the Iraqi puppet regime in such a way that they precluded the establishment of an Islamic society.


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## Si modo (Apr 12, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Too fucking bad.  That was the will of the Iraqi people.


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## Kalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Si modo said:


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Their "will" as dictated to them by the occupying coalition.


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## Si modo (Apr 12, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Right.  The occupying coalition dictated that the will of the Iraqi people be followed (as I quoted above).


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## Kalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Si modo said:


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Sorry; ensuring that a certain type of government exists in a conquered region is tantamount to establishing a puppet state. Self-determination does not involve outside intervention. Notwithstanding your apparent willingness to swallow government propaganda, that much should be clear to you.


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## Si modo (Apr 12, 2010)

Kalam said:


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Your 'puppet' rhetoric still doesn't fly, especially when the government is the will of the Iraqi people.


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## Kalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Si modo said:


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Yes, you already shared that line of propaganda with me. You have my pity if you're so naïve that you think a government set up by an occupying force reflects the will of the occupied.


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## Si modo (Apr 12, 2010)

Kalam said:


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The 'occupying force' mandated that it follow the will of the Iraqi people and you complain.


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## Kalam (Apr 12, 2010)

Si modo said:


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It doesn't matter what they claim to be doing in official propaganda. Any government formed by an occupying force is not a result of self determination.


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## Marc39 (Apr 13, 2010)

Kalam said:


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The Iraqis had self-determination under Saddam's occupation?  How about the Kurds?


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## PixieStix (Apr 13, 2010)

When the US removed Saddam and his oppressive and torturous regime, the Iraqi people had no idea of how to act, it was anarchy. They seemed to have likened anarchy to freedom. They did not understand the rule of law as us Americans do. They seemed to have thought freedom meant doing anything they wanted. There had to be Boots on the ground to clean up Saddams mess as well as show the Iraqis how you live a civilized life under law, not oppression.

They were like hungry caged animals set free. Their fear was gone. 

Finally the Iraqis were able to vote. What a cool thing that was for them.

For those who still think the Iraq invasion was wrong, I say to you. You must not understand or know much about Saddams reign of terror. In one mass grave alone, there were 3000 bodies unearthed 

They estimate 300,000 Iraqis and Kurds were killed and or tortured under Saddam


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## Si modo (Apr 13, 2010)

Kalam said:


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And that 'occupying force' mandated that the will of the Iraqi people be heeded.  Like the good little Muslim that you are, you whine that heeding the will of the Iraqi people was mandated.


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## Kalam (Apr 13, 2010)

Si modo said:


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It's like I'm talking to a brick wall. The "will of the people" isn't the law of the land if the people aren't left to exercise their will without foreign interference.


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## Marc39 (Apr 13, 2010)

Kalam said:


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When did Iraqis exercise their free will under Saddam?
When do ANY Muslims exercise free will under "Islam", Arabic for "submit"?


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## Si modo (Apr 13, 2010)

Kalam said:


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And that 'foreign interference' mandated that the will of the Iraqi people be heeded.


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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> When did Iraqis exercise their free will under Saddam?


Saddam was a munafiq who openly supported Russian mass murder and forsook his brothers in Chechnya. Any "Muslim" who chooses political expediency over rectitude is not fit to be in a position of power. Saddam was our problem, not yours. 



Marc39 said:


> When do ANY Muslims exercise free will under "Islam", Arabic for "submit"?


"Submission," indicating submission to the will of God and nothing else. A person exercises free will by choosing to follow Islam.


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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

Si modo said:


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Sorry; it doesn't work like that. An invader can only ensure that the will of the people is followed by withdrawing completely and leaving them to conduct their own affairs.


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## Si modo (Apr 14, 2010)

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Or, they can mandate that the will of the Iraqi people be heeded through elections where the people vote.  Obviously, you have issues with the will of the people expressed in elections being mandated.


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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

Si modo said:


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This discussion has clearly become an exercise in futility. If America is ever invaded and occupied, I suppose I can expect to find you among the collaborators. Good day!


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## Si modo (Apr 14, 2010)

Kalam said:


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You can expect anything you wish. Expect to be disappointed.


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## GHook93 (Apr 14, 2010)

First, this guy is trying to promote that he is an expert. Yet he got out when it was bad and people can't deny that it was bad. But hasn't gone back after the success of the surge. 

Second, this guy is a trying to state the Sadam didn't gas and kill his own people! Loss of creditability there. 

Third, he tries the age old liberal attack of there have been 100K dead civilians. Who is he putting that on? America of course. Doesn't matter that over million were slaughter in the Iran-Iraq war. 

Fourth, I would like to see him come out of the closet in Sadam's Iraq. He would have been killed.

Fifth, if you see us as the enemy then get the hell out of our country!

Sixth, guarantee that this fag and his liberal producers have selectively edited every interview. They want to protray us as thugs and rednecks. They took 2 redneck soldiers and will try to protray them all this way!


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## GHook93 (Apr 14, 2010)

Luissa said:


> You should watch the whole video, the Iraqi said it has gone from bad to worse over there.
> I bet they would go back to having Sadam in power.



After the start of the war it went from bad to worse and then the fag got out of Iraq. Has been back since. That is his own words. So those rednecks that rdean called them have a MUCH better view point on the situation then this fag.


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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> First, this guy is trying to promote that he is an expert. Yet he got out when it was bad and people can't deny that it was bad. But hasn't gone back after the success of the surge.


Yeah, I'm sure you've been able to get a better idea of what's going in Iraq from your television than this guy has by suffering through it himself and keeping in contact with his family and friends who remained in the region. 



GHook93 said:


> Second, this guy is a trying to state the Sadam didn't gas and kill his own people!


Where?



GHook93 said:


> Third, he tries the age old liberal attack of there have been 100K dead civilians. Who is he putting that on? America of course. Doesn't matter that over million were slaughter in the Iran-Iraq war.


No, you're right; it doesn't matter that over one million were slaughtered in an entirely separate conflict (although both sides were armed by the good ol' USA!) 

Of course coalition forces are responsible for the deaths. 



GHook93 said:


> Fourth, I would like to see him come out of the closet in Sadam's Iraq. He would have been killed.


Where did he say that he was gay? 



GHook93 said:


> Fifth, if you see us as the enemy then get the hell out of our country!


I'd tread carefully when discussing traitors, Jonathan Pollard.



GHook93 said:


> Sixth, guarantee that this *fag *and his liberal producers have selectively edited every interview. They want to protray us as thugs and rednecks. They took 2 redneck soldiers and will try to protray them all this way!


There's that Zionist tolerance! Way to spell "portray", by the way. Knowing that a "fag" from Iraq is probably more proficient in English than you are must truly be embarrassing.


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## GHook93 (Apr 14, 2010)

Kalam said:


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I know its hard for a Muslim who hates this country to realize, but you do know that we got help from the French in defeating the British to establish our freedom. 

We went over to help the Frogs get their freedom from the Germans. Ditto for Kuwait!


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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

GHook93 said:


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I have good friends who came over from Iraq less than two years ago. They were recently joined by another family member. Sorry, but I'm afraid that the Crusade still isn't going very smoothly.


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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

GHook93 said:


> I know its hard for a Muslim who hates this country to realize, but you do know that we got help from the French in defeating the British to establish our freedom.


You're claiming that receiving assistance is equivalent to being invaded and having a puppet government established by foreign occupiers? 



GHook93 said:


> We went over to help the Frogs get their freedom from the Germans. Ditto for Kuwait!


Funny that you'd mention the occupation of France. I wonder who will come over to Vichy Iraq and liberate it from the coalition?


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## Marc39 (Apr 14, 2010)

Kalam said:


> > You're claiming that receiving assistance is equivalent to being invaded and having a puppet government established by foreign occupiers?
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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Didn't Saddam invade and occupy Kuwait in 1990?  Why, yes, I do believe he did.


Indeed he did. So what? Usama bin Ladin and those under his command offered to expel the invaders just as they had expelled the Soviets from Afghanistan a few years earlier; the offer was denied by Saudi Arabia, who enlisted Crusader support instead. A wiser handling of that situation could have resulted in prosperity and security for the United States as well as the Middle East. Instead, bin Ladin abandoned jihad to commit acts of hirabah against civilians and the United States lost 3,000 innocent lives and found itself involved in two immoral and unnecessary wars. The importance of staying out of our affairs cannot be stressed enough. 



Marc39 said:


> Didn't Muslims invade and occupy Spain, once?  Cyprus?  Italy?  Southern France?  Much of Europe, Africa and Asia?  99 percent of the Middle East and North Africa, today?


Most of the conquest occurred under the Umayyad Caliphate, which wasn't properly Islamic. Righteous warfare took place under Muhammad (SAWS) and the Rashidun and continues today in lands of oppression such as Israel and the Caucasus.


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## LuckyDan (Apr 14, 2010)

Luissa said:


> You should watch the whole video, the Iraqi said it has gone from bad to worse over there.
> I bet they would go back to having Sadam in power.


 
I wish we could talk to the ones he tortured and murdered.


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## rdean (Apr 14, 2010)

PixieStix said:


> When the US removed Saddam and his oppressive and torturous regime, the Iraqi people had no idea of how to act, it was anarchy. They seemed to have likened anarchy to freedom. They did not understand the rule of law as us Americans do. They seemed to have thought freedom meant doing anything they wanted. There had to be Boots on the ground to clean up Saddams mess as well as show the Iraqis how you live a civilized life under law, not oppression.
> 
> They were like hungry caged animals set free. Their fear was gone.
> 
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTstzb7qSI4&feature=related]YouTube - Bush protects Iraqi Christians[/ame]

The recent constitution which was written *under the U.S. government's supervision* is ''very backward and anti-women,'' Mahmoud said. ''They make Islam the source for law making, and the main official religion of the country. This in itself means Islamic Sharia law and according to this women will be considered second-class citizens and will have no power in deciding over their lives.'' 

IRAQ: Saddam Better for Women - IPS ipsnews.net

------------------------------

And for all this, they can thank Bush and the Republicans.  They even sent Bush a "gift":







http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/world/middleeast/08gay.html


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## Kalam (Apr 14, 2010)

LuckyDan said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > You should watch the whole video, the Iraqi said it has gone from bad to worse over there.
> ...



Great news - there are plenty of people that the US has tortured that you can talk to:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuJsCi_BiM0]YouTube - Sami al-Hajj released from Guantanamo - 02 May 08[/ame]

_They said: On Allah we rely; our Lord, make us not a trial for the unjust people. And deliver us by Thy mercy from the disbelieving people._ - 10:85-86​


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## LuckyDan (Apr 15, 2010)

Kalam said:


> LuckyDan said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...


 
Released. Alive. And well. He looks like he's doing just fine. My heart is breaking that he didnt enjoy his stay in Cuba.


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## Kalam (Apr 15, 2010)

LuckyDan said:


> Released. Alive. And well. He looks like he's doing just fine. My heart is breaking that he didnt enjoy his stay in Cuba.



Released after six years of imprisonment for no reason at all; six years of being beaten, assaulted, sexually abused, and denied even the most basic religious freedoms; six years of being denied access to medical treatment for his remitted throat cancer and injuries caused by abusive Crusader guards; six years away from his wife and young children who spent their most formative years without a father. Sami al-Hajj is only one example of your tax dollars at work, "liberating" Iraq and Afghanistan from television journalists and other equally innocuous people.


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## PixieStix (Apr 15, 2010)

Luissa said:


> You should watch the whole video, the Iraqi said it has gone from bad to worse over there.
> I bet they would go back to having Sadam in power.




I kind of doubt it Luissa 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JojVRTbauIU]YouTube - Tyrant Saddam's Reign in Terror Part 1 of 6[/ame]


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## LuckyDan (Apr 15, 2010)

In October 2002, Saddam won a referendum on whether he should continue in power for another 7 years. 

"There were 11,445,638 eligible voters - and every one of them voted for the president, according to Izzat Ibrahim, Vice-Chairman of Iraq's Revolutionary Command Council." - BBC

That's pretty damn impressive, right there.


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## Bahaman (Apr 16, 2010)

Tom Clancy said:


> Rdean is a classic example of how the Media makes Iraq out to be..
> 
> --
> 
> ...



Just another dumb azz bushie!!! You have no concept of iraq, never did. YOu can only be a demented azzhole to think the nation you people visciously attacked and practically destroyed would be happy tyo have a bunch of Americans meddling in their natural course. And BTW women are extremely unhappy in Iraq since the secular dictator that allowed them more freedoms than any middle east country on earth was thrown out by the religious fanatic bush.

You repugs are beyond stupid!


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## Marc39 (Apr 18, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't Saddam invade and occupy Kuwait in 1990?  Why, yes, I do believe he did.
> ...



But, Saddam didn't stay out of Kuwait's affairs when he invaded.

Arabs and Muslims have a 1400 year history of not staying out of others affairs in invading Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East in the ridiculous name of the fictional Allah.  



> Didn't Muslims invade and occupy Spain, once?  Cyprus?  Italy?  Southern France?  Much of Europe, Africa and Asia?  99 percent of the Middle East and North Africa, today?





> Most of the conquest occurred under the Umayyad Caliphate, which wasn't properly Islamic. Righteous warfare took place under Muhammad (SAWS) and the Rashidun and continues today in lands of oppression such as Israel and the Caucasus.



Righteous warfare?  You're so fucked up with toxic Islamic ideology, it's scary.  Righteous warfare is JIHAD, holy war and terrorism perpetrated by Muslims against non-Muslims in an effort to achieve world domination, as demanded by the Koran.

Jihad is terrorism, the Islamic religious obligation of invading and conquering the Earth and forcibly converting all to Islam.

Muhammad was mentally ill and fabricated the scam of Islam in order to steal land, bed lots of women, including a 6 year old little girl, make money and take over Arabia.

Get real.


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