# Migrant kids outperform local kids



## Tommy Tainant

Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News

I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


----------



## SassyIrishLass

Let'em learn where they came from


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.




The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

SassyIrishLass said:


> Let'em learn where they came from



Agreed.


----------



## Lucy Hamilton

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
Click to expand...


Hey now stop being....."racist"


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Lucy Hamilton said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey now stop being....."racist"
Click to expand...


  You misspelled realist...


----------



## Tommy Tainant

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
Click to expand...

Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.


----------



## Moonglow

SassyIrishLass said:


> Let'em learn where they came from


Just like you did? Every one should be like you, thank goodness Albert Einstein didn't pay attention to folks like you...


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
Click to expand...


  So they say...
Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up


----------



## Tommy Tainant

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
Click to expand...

Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
Click to expand...


    You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
    Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
Click to expand...

Its an easy hit but hey....................if you want to "gage" the intelligence of a people maybe you should learn how to spell "guage" .


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its an easy hit but hey....................if you want to "gage" the intelligence of a people maybe you should learn how to spell "guage" .
Click to expand...


  It's the proper spelling in the machinist world,which I spent 25 years at.
Thread Gages O.D / I.D. & Wires | Meyer Gage Company, Inc.

Plug Thread Go/No Go Gage Sets | MSCDirect.com

   You're not nearly as smart as you think you are......

   Hell,I bet you think this is a ruler....


----------



## Tommy Tainant

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its an easy hit but hey....................if you want to "gage" the intelligence of a people maybe you should learn how to spell "guage" .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the proper spelling in the machinist world,which I spent 25 years at.
> Thread Gages O.D / I.D. & Wires | Meyer Gage Company, Inc.
> 
> Plug Thread Go/No Go Gage Sets | MSCDirect.com
> 
> You're not nearly as smart as you think you are......
> 
> Hell,I bet you think this is a ruler....
> View attachment 62932
Click to expand...

http://grammarist.com/spelling/gage-gauge-and-gouge/
Hmmmm, I might accept that if your other postings had any intelligence .


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> 
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its an easy hit but hey....................if you want to "gage" the intelligence of a people maybe you should learn how to spell "guage" .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the proper spelling in the machinist world,which I spent 25 years at.
> Thread Gages O.D / I.D. & Wires | Meyer Gage Company, Inc.
> 
> Plug Thread Go/No Go Gage Sets | MSCDirect.com
> 
> You're not nearly as smart as you think you are......
> 
> Hell,I bet you think this is a ruler....
> View attachment 62932
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://grammarist.com/spelling/gage-gauge-and-gouge/
> Hmmmm, I might accept that if your other postings had any intelligence .
Click to expand...


   So all those gage companies misspelled their company names?


Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> 
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its an easy hit but hey....................if you want to "gage" the intelligence of a people maybe you should learn how to spell "guage" .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's the proper spelling in the machinist world,which I spent 25 years at.
> Thread Gages O.D / I.D. & Wires | Meyer Gage Company, Inc.
> 
> Plug Thread Go/No Go Gage Sets | MSCDirect.com
> 
> You're not nearly as smart as you think you are......
> 
> Hell,I bet you think this is a ruler....
> View attachment 62932
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> http://grammarist.com/spelling/gage-gauge-and-gouge/
> Hmmmm, I might accept that if your other postings had any intelligence .
Click to expand...


  This from the guy who's an expert on Russia and the U.S after a couple of visits.


----------



## sharik

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News



it isn't that they are more motivated but it is that the West has long since replaced education with indoctrination.


----------



## Dovahkiin

SassyIrishLass said:


> Let'em learn where they came from


I'm sure you'll personally be able to throw these kids out of their new schools and back into the oh so wonderful places they came from.


----------



## SassyIrishLass

Dovahkiin said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let'em learn where they came from
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you'll personally be able to throw these kids out of their new schools and back into the oh so wonderful places they came from.
Click to expand...


You troll a lot. It's becoming tiresome


----------



## Dovahkiin

SassyIrishLass said:


> Dovahkiin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let'em learn where they came from
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you'll personally be able to throw these kids out of their new schools and back into the oh so wonderful places they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You troll a lot. It's becoming tiresome
Click to expand...

What do you think will have to be done?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Dovahkiin said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let'em learn where they came from
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you'll personally be able to throw these kids out of their new schools and back into the oh so wonderful places they came from.
Click to expand...


   I love how liberals are always screaming we aren't the world police....
Well we're not the worlds daycare center either. 
   Set up refugee camps in their own damn country so they can step in when the hostilities stop and get back to fixing their own damn problems.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
Click to expand...




Did you find academic study in your second language easy when you were a teenager?


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
Click to expand...


No, it's a dimwitted notion.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it's a dimwitted notion.
Click to expand...

Its either that or a racist stereotype.


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.



Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.

Tell me how that benefits you brits?


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
Click to expand...

Doesnt it make the world a better place ?


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesnt it make the world a better place ?
Click to expand...


How?


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesnt it make the world a better place ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
Click to expand...

Oh dear.


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesnt it make the world a better place ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear.
Click to expand...



That's not an answer.

If you don't know, just say so.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesnt it make the world a better place ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's not an answer.
> 
> If you don't know, just say so.
Click to expand...

Because education makes the world a better place you shit kicking recidivist. What part is difficult ?


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
> 
> 
> 
> Doesnt it make the world a better place ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's not an answer.
> 
> If you don't know, just say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because education makes the world a better place you shit kicking recidivist. What part is difficult ?
Click to expand...



If you bring in a bunch of "driven" Indians who managed to disproportionately suck up university slots, then it doesn't make the world a better place for the slightly lower scoring Brits who don't get to go to University and end up with lower wages the rest of their lives.

So, can you answer my fucking question? How does this benefit you brits?


----------



## alpine

Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...

Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation


----------



## Correll

alpine said:


> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation




Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?


----------



## alpine

Correll said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
Click to expand...



Well, you tell me...

I guess "white" kids are not up to challenge
It is a matter of IQ, you know... 
Not every "race" blessed with the smart genes I guess................


----------



## Correll

alpine said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me...
> 
> I guess "white" kids are not up to challenge
> It is a matter of IQ, you know...
> Not every "race" blessed with the smart genes I guess................
Click to expand...



You posted the report as though it is a good thing.

So you tell me.

HOw is this good for America or Americans?


----------



## MaryL

This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.


----------



## Correll

MaryL said:


> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.



I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.

And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.

I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.

That is not making this nation or the world a better place.

It's making it crappier.


----------



## alpine

Correll said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me...
> 
> I guess "white" kids are not up to challenge
> It is a matter of IQ, you know...
> Not every "race" blessed with the smart genes I guess................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You posted the report as though it is a good thing.
> 
> So you tell me.
> 
> HOw is this good for America or Americans?
Click to expand...



It is not.

So rather bullshitting like;
"ohhh, whites are the best, mexicans are stupid"
"look who is more advanced in the world, we are the smartest"
......
people of this nation need to take off their hats, 
and start thinking about ways to change this trend.


But when somebody comes up with some ideas: 
"Our education sucks, 
we need to take steps to improve that, 
we have to make colleges tuition free, 
so all kids are in an equal race,
so our education is more competitive,
so it is more efficient and productive"


And then the same chorus begins 
they are giving out "free shit"
"free shit"
"free shit"
"free shit"
"free shit"
"free shit"
"free shit"
"free shit"
"free shit"



Here is immigrant brains for you, all "free" then...
But they don't like that either..............

Go figure


----------



## Correll

alpine said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me...
> 
> I guess "white" kids are not up to challenge
> It is a matter of IQ, you know...
> Not every "race" blessed with the smart genes I guess................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You posted the report as though it is a good thing.
> 
> So you tell me.
> 
> HOw is this good for America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.
> 
> So rather bullshitting like;
> "ohhh, whites are the best, mexicans are stupid"
> "look who is more advanced in the world, we are the smartest"
> ......
> people of this nation need to take off their hats,
> and start thinking about ways to change this trend.
> 
> 
> But when somebody comes up with some ideas:
> "Our education sucks,
> we need to take steps to improve that,
> we have to make colleges tuition free,
> so all kids are in an equal race,
> so our education is more competitive,
> so it is more efficient and productive"
> 
> 
> And then the same chorus begins
> they are giving out "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> 
> 
> 
> Here is immigrant brains for you, all "free" then...
> But they don't like that either..............
> 
> Go figure
Click to expand...




SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.

But you are happy about it. Why?

We have a way to reverse this trend.

Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.


----------



## alpine

Correll said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me...
> 
> I guess "white" kids are not up to challenge
> It is a matter of IQ, you know...
> Not every "race" blessed with the smart genes I guess................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You posted the report as though it is a good thing.
> 
> So you tell me.
> 
> HOw is this good for America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.
> 
> So rather bullshitting like;
> "ohhh, whites are the best, mexicans are stupid"
> "look who is more advanced in the world, we are the smartest"
> ......
> people of this nation need to take off their hats,
> and start thinking about ways to change this trend.
> 
> 
> But when somebody comes up with some ideas:
> "Our education sucks,
> we need to take steps to improve that,
> we have to make colleges tuition free,
> so all kids are in an equal race,
> so our education is more competitive,
> so it is more efficient and productive"
> 
> 
> And then the same chorus begins
> they are giving out "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> 
> 
> 
> Here is immigrant brains for you, all "free" then...
> But they don't like that either..............
> 
> Go figure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.
> 
> But you are happy about it. Why?
> 
> We have a way to reverse this trend.
> 
> Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.
Click to expand...



They are importing foreigners, because you CANT do your job...


----------



## Correll

alpine said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me...
> 
> I guess "white" kids are not up to challenge
> It is a matter of IQ, you know...
> Not every "race" blessed with the smart genes I guess................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You posted the report as though it is a good thing.
> 
> So you tell me.
> 
> HOw is this good for America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.
> 
> So rather bullshitting like;
> "ohhh, whites are the best, mexicans are stupid"
> "look who is more advanced in the world, we are the smartest"
> ......
> people of this nation need to take off their hats,
> and start thinking about ways to change this trend.
> 
> 
> But when somebody comes up with some ideas:
> "Our education sucks,
> we need to take steps to improve that,
> we have to make colleges tuition free,
> so all kids are in an equal race,
> so our education is more competitive,
> so it is more efficient and productive"
> 
> 
> And then the same chorus begins
> they are giving out "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> 
> 
> 
> Here is immigrant brains for you, all "free" then...
> But they don't like that either..............
> 
> Go figure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.
> 
> But you are happy about it. Why?
> 
> We have a way to reverse this trend.
> 
> Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are importing foreigners, because you CANT do your job...
Click to expand...


IN a nation of 300 million they can't find kids smart enough to do the work?

Bullshit.

They are lazy and cheap. 

As you said, this is not good for the US or Americans.

SO, lets change the rules so that the results ARE GOOD FOR THE US AND AMERICANS.

Trump has some good ideas on where to start on that.

Immigration Reform



> Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
> 
> *Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs*. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
> 
> *Requirement to hire American workers first*. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
Click to expand...




Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.


----------



## alpine

Correll said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you tell me...
> 
> I guess "white" kids are not up to challenge
> It is a matter of IQ, you know...
> Not every "race" blessed with the smart genes I guess................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You posted the report as though it is a good thing.
> 
> So you tell me.
> 
> HOw is this good for America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.
> 
> So rather bullshitting like;
> "ohhh, whites are the best, mexicans are stupid"
> "look who is more advanced in the world, we are the smartest"
> ......
> people of this nation need to take off their hats,
> and start thinking about ways to change this trend.
> 
> 
> But when somebody comes up with some ideas:
> "Our education sucks,
> we need to take steps to improve that,
> we have to make colleges tuition free,
> so all kids are in an equal race,
> so our education is more competitive,
> so it is more efficient and productive"
> 
> 
> And then the same chorus begins
> they are giving out "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> 
> 
> 
> Here is immigrant brains for you, all "free" then...
> But they don't like that either..............
> 
> Go figure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.
> 
> But you are happy about it. Why?
> 
> We have a way to reverse this trend.
> 
> Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are importing foreigners, because you CANT do your job...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IN a nation of 300 million they can't find kids smart enough to do the work?
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> They are lazy and cheap.
> 
> As you said, this is not good for the US or Americans.
> 
> SO, lets change the rules so that the results ARE GOOD FOR THE US AND AMERICANS.
> 
> Trump has some good ideas on where to start on that.
> 
> Immigration Reform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
> 
> *Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs*. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
> 
> *Requirement to hire American workers first*. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


With this education system, this country is forced to import brains.

If you limit H1 visas, US tech companies who are flooding the world market with US products and technology and bringing back the money(to cayman islands!@#!@$!@$!@), would just simply shift their whole operations.
Bill Gates asked for either an education reform so we can graduate more engineers, or remove the quote on tech H1 visas.

Do you know how many engineers are graduated in Russia compared to US?
Remember, Russia has less than the half of the US population...


We need tuition free college in this country. That is the best investment for the future that could shift this trend, so our own people can rise up in the production ladder, so they can contribute more to the wealth of this country, rather than ending up as bunch of deadbeats in life...

More immigration laws wont help a bit w/o fixing the education...
I support Sanders education reform plan, over Trumps immigration reform plan...


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
Click to expand...



Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.

I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.

IMO, it is unhealthy.

I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.

Which could make the difference in college admissions.

But not in the real world.

I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.


----------



## Correll

alpine said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> You posted the report as though it is a good thing.
> 
> So you tell me.
> 
> HOw is this good for America or Americans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.
> 
> So rather bullshitting like;
> "ohhh, whites are the best, mexicans are stupid"
> "look who is more advanced in the world, we are the smartest"
> ......
> people of this nation need to take off their hats,
> and start thinking about ways to change this trend.
> 
> 
> But when somebody comes up with some ideas:
> "Our education sucks,
> we need to take steps to improve that,
> we have to make colleges tuition free,
> so all kids are in an equal race,
> so our education is more competitive,
> so it is more efficient and productive"
> 
> 
> And then the same chorus begins
> they are giving out "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> 
> 
> 
> Here is immigrant brains for you, all "free" then...
> But they don't like that either..............
> 
> Go figure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.
> 
> But you are happy about it. Why?
> 
> We have a way to reverse this trend.
> 
> Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are importing foreigners, because you CANT do your job...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IN a nation of 300 million they can't find kids smart enough to do the work?
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> They are lazy and cheap.
> 
> As you said, this is not good for the US or Americans.
> 
> SO, lets change the rules so that the results ARE GOOD FOR THE US AND AMERICANS.
> 
> Trump has some good ideas on where to start on that.
> 
> Immigration Reform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
> 
> *Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs*. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
> 
> *Requirement to hire American workers first*. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With this education system, this country is forced to import brains.
> 
> If you limit H1 visas, US tech companies who are flooding the world market with US products and technology and bringing back the money(to cayman islands!@#!@$!@$!@), would just simply shift their whole operations.
> Bill Gates asked for either an education reform so we can graduate more engineers, or remove the quote on tech H1 visas.
> 
> Do you know how many engineers are graduated in Russia compared to US?
> Remember, Russia has less than the half of the US population...
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. That is the best investment for the future that could shift this trend, so our own people can rise up in the production ladder, so they can contribute more to the wealth of this country, rather than ending up as bunch of deadbeats in life...
> 
> More immigration laws wont help a bit w/o fixing the education...
> I support Sanders education reform plan, over Trumps immigration reform plan...
Click to expand...




Then change the education system.

Or let  the corporations can do their own training. 

Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.

DO not import foreigners to take our jobs.

Throwing more money are colleges is not the answer. We have been doing that.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Lazy losers that sneak in over the border and breed like bunnies. And lazy losers that let themselves become the peasant class for all those rich lazy empowered classes like pawns in a game way over their heads. You, buckaroo, are in over your head. Big-time.


----------



## alpine

Correll said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not.
> 
> So rather bullshitting like;
> "ohhh, whites are the best, mexicans are stupid"
> "look who is more advanced in the world, we are the smartest"
> ......
> people of this nation need to take off their hats,
> and start thinking about ways to change this trend.
> 
> 
> But when somebody comes up with some ideas:
> "Our education sucks,
> we need to take steps to improve that,
> we have to make colleges tuition free,
> so all kids are in an equal race,
> so our education is more competitive,
> so it is more efficient and productive"
> 
> 
> And then the same chorus begins
> they are giving out "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> 
> 
> 
> Here is immigrant brains for you, all "free" then...
> But they don't like that either..............
> 
> Go figure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.
> 
> But you are happy about it. Why?
> 
> We have a way to reverse this trend.
> 
> Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are importing foreigners, because you CANT do your job...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IN a nation of 300 million they can't find kids smart enough to do the work?
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> They are lazy and cheap.
> 
> As you said, this is not good for the US or Americans.
> 
> SO, lets change the rules so that the results ARE GOOD FOR THE US AND AMERICANS.
> 
> Trump has some good ideas on where to start on that.
> 
> Immigration Reform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
> 
> *Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs*. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
> 
> *Requirement to hire American workers first*. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With this education system, this country is forced to import brains.
> 
> If you limit H1 visas, US tech companies who are flooding the world market with US products and technology and bringing back the money(to cayman islands!@#!@$!@$!@), would just simply shift their whole operations.
> Bill Gates asked for either an education reform so we can graduate more engineers, or remove the quote on tech H1 visas.
> 
> Do you know how many engineers are graduated in Russia compared to US?
> Remember, Russia has less than the half of the US population...
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. That is the best investment for the future that could shift this trend, so our own people can rise up in the production ladder, so they can contribute more to the wealth of this country, rather than ending up as bunch of deadbeats in life...
> 
> More immigration laws wont help a bit w/o fixing the education...
> I support Sanders education reform plan, over Trumps immigration reform plan...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.
> 
> DO not import foreigners to take our jobs.
> 
> Throwing more money are colleges is not the answer. We have been doing that.
Click to expand...



Do you know how much it cost to get an engineering degree?
Then what is the tuition for, if this country was throwing money to the colleges?

This county needs more engineers desperately.
At the same time she is charging her kids ridiculous amounts of money to be able to get an engineering degree...

This is a detrimental system...


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> .....
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. .....




Exactly what we _don't_ need.


----------



## alpine

Unkotare said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what we _don't_ need.
Click to expand...


So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?

Well, that would be good for you, so you could socialize, 
but not good for this nation looking to move forward with educated smart individuals.....


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
Click to expand...



You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.


----------



## MaryL

Disparaging  hateful remarks FOR illegal aliens, that will make everything ALL better? Illegal aliens, all they gotta do is immigrate legally. Not that big a deal, by the way. It isn't racist or hateful or anti immigrant, not lazy. Just fair. Gotta problem with fairness? That can't be asking TOO much, is it?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....







Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.


----------



## alpine

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
Click to expand...



You cant even type in your own language, and you will compete with whom exactly???


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....




You suck at math.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... Lazy losers that sneak in over the border and breed like bunnies. ...



Coming into the US illegally is wrong on many levels, but it is seldom easy. You're emotional and ignorant.


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what we _don't_ need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?.......
Click to expand...




Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend college is a "moron"? Is that your position?


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You cant [sic] even type in your own language...
Click to expand...



Yes I can. You really suck at this, don't you?


----------



## alpine

Unkotare said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what we _don't_ need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend college is a "moron"? Is that your position?
Click to expand...


No.

What I am saying is that; you are a MORON.
And it would be beneficial for this country not have MORONS like you rolling around...


----------



## alpine

Unkotare said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You cant [sic] even type in your own language...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I can. You really suck at this, don't you?
Click to expand...



Yes, we have all seen how you did...
Well done, for your capacity....


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what we _don't_ need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend college is a "moron"? Is that your position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.........
Click to expand...



Really? That's exactly what your post means. Maybe you have trouble expressing yourself accurately.


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You* cant *[sic] even type in your own language...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I can. You really suck at this, don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we have all seen how you did........
Click to expand...


Care to be more specific? Can you be?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Lazy losers that sneak in over the border and breed like bunnies. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming into the US illegally is wrong on many levels, but it is seldom easy. You're emotional and ignorant.
Click to expand...

Good lord. Cheating lying fraud and exploitation is OK, cause it's hard and minorities groups are involved,  absolution. What are you trying to say? Who is getting emotional? Me or you?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> .... Cheating lying fraud and exploitation is OK...?.




No, it's not.


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> ... Who is getting emotional? Me or you?




You, again.


----------



## alpine

Unkotare said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what we _don't_ need.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend college is a "moron"? Is that your position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really? That's exactly what your post means. Maybe you have trouble expressing yourself accurately.
Click to expand...


No, we have schools out there, so people potentially don't end up, well, like you, a deadbeat loser.
Not necessarily everybody who doesn't go to school end up like you, but some people do, like yourself.

Anyways, thats not the important part
Did you understand the part where I called you a MORON?
Thats whats important....


----------



## alpine

MaryL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Lazy losers that sneak in over the border and breed like bunnies. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming into the US illegally is wrong on many levels, but it is seldom easy. You're emotional and ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good lord. Cheating lying fraud and exploitation is OK, cause it's hard and minorities groups are involved,  absolution. What are you trying to say? Who is getting emotional? Me or you?
Click to expand...



No, cheating lying and fraud is OK, if you are a football player, a football coach or a wall st speculator.
Otherwise, it is a no no......


----------



## MaryL

NO 





alpine said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Lazy losers that sneak in over the border and breed like bunnies. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming into the US illegally is wrong on many levels, but it is seldom easy. You're emotional and ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good lord. Cheating lying fraud and exploitation is OK, cause it's hard and minorities groups are involved,  absolution. What are you trying to say? Who is getting emotional? Me or you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, cheating lying and fraud is OK, if you are a football player, a football coach or a wall st speculator.
> Otherwise, it is a no no......
Click to expand...

No steroids, no human growth hormones,  cheating in any form, Not allowed. Betting does not  nor allow card counting, either. And on and on and on, Illegal aliens are cheats and frauds in any sense, period. Who defends THAT? let me guess...


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what we _don't_ need.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend college is a "moron"? Is that your position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really? That's exactly what your post means. Maybe you have trouble expressing yourself accurately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, we have schools out there, [sic] so people potentially don't end up [sic], well, like you [sic], a deadbeat loser.
> Not necessarily everybody [sic] who doesn't go to school end [sic] up like you, but some people do, like yourself [sic].
> 
> Anyways, thats [sic] not the important part
> Did you understand the part where I called you a MORON?
> Thats [sic] whats [sic] important....
Click to expand...




It's too bad you lack the ability to appreciate the irony of your ungrammatical failure at insult.


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend college is a "moron"? Is that your position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really? That's exactly what your post means. Maybe you have trouble expressing yourself accurately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, we have schools out there, [sic] so people potentially don't end up [sic], well, like you [sic], a deadbeat loser.
> Not necessarily everybody [sic] who doesn't go to school end [sic] up like you, but some people do, like yourself [sic].
> 
> Anyways, thats [sic] not the important part
> Did you understand the part where I called you a MORON?
> Thats [sic] whats [sic] important....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor grammar isn't hurting anyone. Illegals, what do you know? Besides being colossal prig. Jesus.
Click to expand...


----------



## MaryL

Says the colossal prig. What do you know ?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> S...What do you know ?




What do you need?


----------



## MaryL

What do I need? HMMM personal question. Illegals immigrate legally, that might be a start. Way beyond what you can provide, sweatpea. Or are YOU UP to that?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> What do I need? HMMM personal question. Illegals immigrate legally, that might be a start. Way beyond what you can provide, sweatpea. Or are YOU UP to that?




Are you drunk? You ask "What do you know?" and respond with this? Completely irrational.


----------



## alpine

Unkotare said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> So we have more of the same type of MORONS like you?.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that anyone who doesn't attend college is a "moron"? Is that your position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really? That's exactly what your post means. Maybe you have trouble expressing yourself accurately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, we have schools out there, [sic] so people potentially don't end up [sic], well, like you [sic], a deadbeat loser.
> Not necessarily everybody [sic] who doesn't go to school end [sic] up like you, but some people do, like yourself [sic].
> 
> Anyways, thats [sic] not the important part
> Did you understand the part where I called you a MORON?
> Thats [sic] whats [sic] important....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's too bad you lack the ability to appreciate the irony of your ungrammatical failure at insult.
Click to expand...


Dude, you are NOT capable of putting together a sentence, in your own language that is... Grow up...


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> ...
> 
> Dude, you are NOT capable of putting together a sentence, in your own language that is [sic]......




Are you confused about something?


----------



## MaryL

Illegal aliens are excused by people with poor grammar? What is it  with you? You related to Rubio-bot?


----------



## Unkotare

MaryL said:


> Illegal aliens are excused by people with poor grammar? What is it  with you? You related to Rubio-bot?




You are drunk, aren't you?


----------



## MaryL

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegal aliens are excused by people with poor grammar? What is it  with you? You related to Rubio-bot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are drunk, aren't you?
Click to expand...

You really got to try hardener, buko.  Illegal aliens CAN try harder to immigrate, and why do you dig so hard to make excuses for them, R2Rubiot? Forget it. You got NOTHING.


----------



## Correll

alpine said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.
> 
> But you are happy about it. Why?
> 
> We have a way to reverse this trend.
> 
> Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are importing foreigners, because you CANT do your job...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IN a nation of 300 million they can't find kids smart enough to do the work?
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> They are lazy and cheap.
> 
> As you said, this is not good for the US or Americans.
> 
> SO, lets change the rules so that the results ARE GOOD FOR THE US AND AMERICANS.
> 
> Trump has some good ideas on where to start on that.
> 
> Immigration Reform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
> 
> *Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs*. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
> 
> *Requirement to hire American workers first*. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With this education system, this country is forced to import brains.
> 
> If you limit H1 visas, US tech companies who are flooding the world market with US products and technology and bringing back the money(to cayman islands!@#!@$!@$!@), would just simply shift their whole operations.
> Bill Gates asked for either an education reform so we can graduate more engineers, or remove the quote on tech H1 visas.
> 
> Do you know how many engineers are graduated in Russia compared to US?
> Remember, Russia has less than the half of the US population...
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. That is the best investment for the future that could shift this trend, so our own people can rise up in the production ladder, so they can contribute more to the wealth of this country, rather than ending up as bunch of deadbeats in life...
> 
> More immigration laws wont help a bit w/o fixing the education...
> I support Sanders education reform plan, over Trumps immigration reform plan...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.
> 
> DO not import foreigners to take our jobs.
> 
> Throwing more money are colleges is not the answer. We have been doing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how much it cost to get an engineering degree?
> Then what is the tuition for, if this country was throwing money to the colleges?
> 
> This county needs more engineers desperately.
> At the same time she is charging her kids ridiculous amounts of money to be able to get an engineering degree...
> 
> This is a detrimental system...
Click to expand...




This nation is full of people willing to go deep into debt in order to get a college degree.


This country has the colleges to produce as many engineers as we want.


IMO, we should take a hard look at colleges to see exactly why the cost has climbed so dramatically over the last couple of decades.

BUT importing foreigners to take our jobs is not the answer.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
Click to expand...



You are just spouting slogans without really considering the issue.

What is the point of competition?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
Click to expand...




I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods.

I have read of the impact of Asian immigrants on the childhood of would be elites in this country.

I saw no benefit to America or Americans in the changes occurring.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
Click to expand...



Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Lazy losers that sneak in over the border and breed like bunnies. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming into the US illegally is wrong on many levels, but it is seldom easy. You're emotional and ignorant.
Click to expand...



Over staying a visa is pretty easy. Just hang out and don't leave when you are supposed to.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are just spouting slogans without really considering the issue.
> 
> What is the point of competition?
Click to expand...



Improvement. You are that one gimpy gazelle on the Nature Channel.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
Click to expand...



So, you're talking out your ass - again.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
Click to expand...


You suck at very simple math.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are just spouting slogans without really considering the issue.
> 
> What is the point of competition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Improvement. You are that one gimpy gazelle on the Nature Channel.
Click to expand...


I didn't note any improvement in the linked OP.

Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
Click to expand...


It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are just spouting slogans without really considering the issue.
> 
> What is the point of competition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Improvement. You are that one gimpy gazelle on the Nature Channel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't note any improvement in the linked OP.
> 
> Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?
Click to expand...



You asked me what the point of competition was, numbskull. Well, the point of competition is improvement. You must really be a slack-ass weakling if you don't know that much on your own.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.
Click to expand...



The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.
Click to expand...



You said "I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods." That means you are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." You are just desperate to justify your lazy weakness and fear.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are just spouting slogans without really considering the issue.
> 
> What is the point of competition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Improvement. You are that one gimpy gazelle on the Nature Channel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't note any improvement in the linked OP.
> 
> Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me what the point of competition was, numbskull. Well, the point of competition is improvement. You must really be a slack-ass weakling if you don't know that much on your own.
Click to expand...



But where is the improvement in this situation?

I asked you

Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?

Those are the types of improvements that should be the goal of government policy, the interests of their citizens.

If anything, with brit citizens having  MORE competition for university slots, there is LESS opportunity for improvement for brit citizens.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?
Click to expand...



For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.

THey've been having to put their lives and plans on "pause" while they have tried to find what they needed.

It is time that government policy takes THEIR interests into consideration.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said "I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods." That means you are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." You are just desperate to justify your lazy weakness and fear.
Click to expand...




I was responding directly to your question based on where you thought I should be operation from, and then went on to share with you where I actually was operating from.

Your cutting of half my post to focus on my honest and direct admission that I have NOT discussed east asians childhoods with east asians was dishonest and, ironically lazy, as it was far easier for you than actually addressing my point.

I expected you to demand that I produce a link to the study I had read on the subject. Which would be difficult for me as I was going from memory.

BUT instead you disappointed me.

I would have expected that from a liberal.

If you were half as exacting on yourself as you are on our society at large, you would have proactively researched the study I had referenced, and posted it yourself with links to peer review criticism, if there is any as of yet.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just spouting slogans without really considering the issue.
> 
> What is the point of competition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Improvement. You are that one gimpy gazelle on the Nature Channel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't note any improvement in the linked OP.
> 
> Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me what the point of competition was, numbskull. Well, the point of competition is improvement. You must really be a slack-ass weakling if you don't know that much on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But where is the improvement in this situation?....
Click to expand...



The ranking contrast between the US and those countries you are so afraid of has been noted many times, dope.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said "I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods." That means you are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." You are just desperate to justify your lazy weakness and fear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was responding directly to your question based on where you thought I should be operation from, and then went on to share with you where I actually was operating from.
> 
> Your cutting of half my post to focus on my honest and direct admission that I have NOT discussed east asians [sic] childhoods with east asians [sic] was dishonest and, ironically lazy, as it was far easier for you than actually addressing my point.
> 
> I expected you to demand that I produce a link to the study I had read on the subject. Which would be difficult for me as I was going from memory.....
Click to expand...



You are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." There _is_ no "study" that can quantify some empty, pointless declaration of what constitutes a "shitty childhood" according to a lazy POS like you. I have spoken with thousands and thousands (and thousands) of people who had just the kind of childhood your lazy ass fears so much. Fine, happy, well-adjusted, successful people. I have spent decades working with young people in various Asian countries (no, they are not all the same, stupid) as well as here in the states who were and are growing up trying their best and challenging themselves instead of flattening their asses like your ilk. Again, fine, happy, well-adjusted people. Your weakness is YOURS. Don't try to justify it by claiming it as some kind of slacker ideal. America is better than that.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
Click to expand...



Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.


----------



## Correll

alpine said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> SO, it's not good for US. Thank you for your honesty on that issue.
> 
> But you are happy about it. Why?
> 
> We have a way to reverse this trend.
> 
> Stop importing foreigners that take our jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are importing foreigners, because you CANT do your job...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> IN a nation of 300 million they can't find kids smart enough to do the work?
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> They are lazy and cheap.
> 
> As you said, this is not good for the US or Americans.
> 
> SO, lets change the rules so that the results ARE GOOD FOR THE US AND AMERICANS.
> 
> Trump has some good ideas on where to start on that.
> 
> Immigration Reform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some additional specific policy proposals for long-term reform:
> 
> *Increase prevailing wage for H-1Bs*. We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program. More than half of H-1B visas are issued for the program's lowest allowable wage level, and more than eighty percent for its bottom two. Raising the prevailing wage paid to H-1Bs will force companies to give these coveted entry-level jobs to the existing domestic pool of unemployed native and immigrant workers in the U.S., instead of flying in cheaper workers from overseas. This will improve the number of black, Hispanic and female workers in Silicon Valley who have been passed over in favor of the H-1B program. Mark Zuckerberg’s personal Senator, Marco Rubio, has a bill to triple H-1Bs that would decimate women and minorities.
> 
> *Requirement to hire American workers first*. Too many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement. In the year 2015, with 92 million Americans outside the workforce and incomes collapsing, we need companies to hire from the domestic pool of unemployed. Petitions for workers should be mailed to the unemployment office, not USCIS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With this education system, this country is forced to import brains.
> 
> If you limit H1 visas, US tech companies who are flooding the world market with US products and technology and bringing back the money(to cayman islands!@#!@$!@$!@), would just simply shift their whole operations.
> Bill Gates asked for either an education reform so we can graduate more engineers, or remove the quote on tech H1 visas.
> 
> Do you know how many engineers are graduated in Russia compared to US?
> Remember, Russia has less than the half of the US population...
> 
> 
> We need tuition free college in this country. That is the best investment for the future that could shift this trend, so our own people can rise up in the production ladder, so they can contribute more to the wealth of this country, rather than ending up as bunch of deadbeats in life...
> 
> More immigration laws wont help a bit w/o fixing the education...
> I support Sanders education reform plan, over Trumps immigration reform plan...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.
> 
> DO not import foreigners to take our jobs.
> 
> Throwing more money are colleges is not the answer. We have been doing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how much it cost to get an engineering degree?
> Then what is the tuition for, if this country was throwing money to the colleges?
> 
> This county needs more engineers desperately.
> At the same time she is charging her kids ridiculous amounts of money to be able to get an engineering degree...
> 
> This is a detrimental system...
Click to expand...




The rapid and unexplained rise in college costs is another topic. 

BUT, we have been spending plenty on higher education and not improving the situation.

It is a detrimental system.

The answer is NOT to just throw more money at it, nor to import foreigners to take American jobs.


----------



## Unkotare

America has the best universities in the world - by far.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said "I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods." That means you are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." You are just desperate to justify your lazy weakness and fear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was responding directly to your question based on where you thought I should be operation from, and then went on to share with you where I actually was operating from.
> 
> Your cutting of half my post to focus on my honest and direct admission that I have NOT discussed east asians [sic] childhoods with east asians [sic] was dishonest and, ironically lazy, as it was far easier for you than actually addressing my point.
> 
> I expected you to demand that I produce a link to the study I had read on the subject. Which would be difficult for me as I was going from memory.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." There _is_ no "study" that can quantify some empty, pointless declaration of what constitutes a "shitty childhood" according to a lazy POS like you. I have spoken with thousands and thousands (and thousands) of people who had just the kind of childhood your lazy ass fears so much. Fine, happy, well-adjusted, successful people. I have spent decades working with young people in various Asian countries (no, they are not all the same, stupid) as well as here in the states who were and are growing up trying their best and challenging themselves instead of flattening their asses like your ilk. Again, fine, happy, well-adjusted people. Your weakness is YOURS. Don't try to justify it by claiming it as some kind of slacker ideal. America is better than that.
Click to expand...



That sounds like a lot of people.

YOu claim that they are "fine happy well adjusted people".

Yet you don't go into what they child hoods were like.

How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
Click to expand...


Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> America has the best universities in the world - by far.




They would be better if they were more accessible, cost wise.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are just spouting slogans without really considering the issue.
> 
> What is the point of competition?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Improvement. You are that one gimpy gazelle on the Nature Channel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't note any improvement in the linked OP.
> 
> Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me what the point of competition was, numbskull. Well, the point of competition is improvement. You must really be a slack-ass weakling if you don't know that much on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But where is the improvement in this situation?....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The ranking contrast between the US and those countries you are so afraid of has been noted many times, dope.
Click to expand...



I am asking in relation to the OP.

What improvement has occurred in or for the UK as a result of this increased "competition"?

If there is none, and the only change has been decreased opportunities for British Citizens, then the policy has been a failure.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> America has the best universities in the world - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They would be better if they were more accessible, cost wise.
Click to expand...





No, they would not. Quite the contrary.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Improvement. You are that one gimpy gazelle on the Nature Channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't note any improvement in the linked OP.
> 
> Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me what the point of competition was, numbskull. Well, the point of competition is improvement. You must really be a slack-ass weakling if you don't know that much on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But where is the improvement in this situation?....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The ranking contrast between the US and those countries you are so afraid of has been noted many times, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking in relation to the OP.
> 
> What improvement has occurred in or for the UK as a result of this increased "competition"?.....
Click to expand...



Find a British person and ask him.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
Click to expand...



You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ....
> 
> YOu claim that they are "fine happy well adjusted people"......




Because they are. Too bad that doesn't fit your agenda.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> Yet you don't go into what they child hoods were like.....




I realize this is all but impossible for someone with your mindset to grasp, but every single person is an individual.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> America has the best universities in the world - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They would be better if they were more accessible, cost wise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they would not. Quite the contrary.
Click to expand...



Sure they would.

If people were more able to afford their product, then more people could benefit from their product.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't note any improvement in the linked OP.
> 
> Is the UK rising in status and power because of the contributions of these high performing migrants? Is life improving for the average Brit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me what the point of competition was, numbskull. Well, the point of competition is improvement. You must really be a slack-ass weakling if you don't know that much on your own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But where is the improvement in this situation?....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The ranking contrast between the US and those countries you are so afraid of has been noted many times, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking in relation to the OP.
> 
> What improvement has occurred in or for the UK as a result of this increased "competition"?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Find a British person and ask him.
Click to expand...



You're the one that made the claim, which you just admitted that you cannot support.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do know what I am talking about.

No, your rudeness does nothing to support or defend you position.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> YOu claim that they are "fine happy well adjusted people"......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because they are. Too bad that doesn't fit your agenda.
Click to expand...


THat's nice.

Yet you don't go into what they child hoods were like.

How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me what the point of competition was, numbskull. Well, the point of competition is improvement. You must really be a slack-ass weakling if you don't know that much on your own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But where is the improvement in this situation?....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The ranking contrast between the US and those countries you are so afraid of has been noted many times, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking in relation to the OP.
> 
> What improvement has occurred in or for the UK as a result of this increased "competition"?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Find a British person and ask him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're the one that made the claim, which you just admitted that you cannot support.
Click to expand...



I never said a word about the UK, you dope.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet you don't go into what they child hoods were like.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I realize this is all but impossible for someone with your mindset to grasp, but every single person is an individual.
Click to expand...



YOur assumption that I don't grasp that would be interesting if the subject was your thought processes.

Otherwise., got it, everyone is a special snowflake.


Yet you don't go into what they child hoods were like.

How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?


----------



## Indeependent

Moonglow said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let'em learn where they came from
> 
> 
> 
> Just like you did? Every one should be like you, thank goodness Albert Einstein didn't pay attention to folks like you...
Click to expand...

And as we know from luminaries such as Thomas L. Friedman, everyone born OUTSIDE of the US is an Albert Einstein.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> But where is the improvement in this situation?....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ranking contrast between the US and those countries you are so afraid of has been noted many times, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I am asking in relation to the OP.
> 
> What improvement has occurred in or for the UK as a result of this increased "competition"?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Find a British person and ask him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're the one that made the claim, which you just admitted that you cannot support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I never said a word about the UK, you dope.
Click to expand...


The OP is about a study conducted in the UK.

You weren't "lazy" and failed to read the OP were you?

REgardless, you have admitted that you cannot support your claims of "improvements" resulting from this increased competition.


----------



## OldLady

Correll said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
Click to expand...

I don't want to see American kids tortured to achieve spectacular grades, either.  Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
I think, though, if you pull back and take a larger look at what's good for our country--kind of like Google Earth, are you with me?--a highly educated technological citizenry will benefit us all for the innovation and industry it will lead to.


----------



## Indeependent

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps you should explain what "math" I am missing in this discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
Click to expand...

I believe you mean Indian Business Visas.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The numbers between your simplistic "improve education!" and the many jobs going unfilled RIGHT NOW. The economy will just 'pause' until your little slogan magically creates an army of engineers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
Click to expand...



No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.


----------



## Indeependent

Face it, American education sucks and America sucks, which is why EVERYONE on Earth wants to live here!
Or are non-Americans being touted as "geniuses" because they'll take lower pay checks?


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
Click to expand...


Horeshit!
That law hasn't been enforced since 2004 when GW began his 2nd term.


----------



## Correll

OldLady said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't want to see American kids tortured to achieve spectacular grades, either.  Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
> I think, though, if you pull back and take a larger look at what's good for our country--kind of like Google Earth, are you with me?--a highly educated technological citizenry will benefit us all for the innovation and industry it will lead to.
Click to expand...



I do not believe that one (kids tortured) has anything to do with the other (highly educated technological citizenry).

It is fine to have a normal, Traditional American childhood, with snowball fights and family time, and to get more serious as the child becomes older.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
Click to expand...


Not enough Americans?
How about virtually NO Americans in ANY IT positions.
H1-Bs are dirt cheap, keep their mouths shut, work 24/7 and produce shit.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .....
> 
> Yet you don't go into what they child hoods were like.
> ....




Thanks for confirming your inability to understand people are individuals. Typical liberal.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> For decades the American worker has been on the other end of that equation, coming into the work force and having to deal with a GLUT of workers who are willing to work longer hours for less money.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
Click to expand...



And I'm sure that the CEOs of those companies are really busting their asses to find an American worker to fill the job, as opposed to some young and hungry Third World Immigrant who will take the job for a lesser wage.

*NOT!*


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .........
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?




Which 3rd grader, dope?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> Yet you don't go into what they child hoods were like.
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for confirming your inability to understand people are individuals. Typical liberal.
Click to expand...



????

Individuals may very well be special snowflakes, but they are still part of various overlapping groups such as cultures.

And we can discuss such groups, specifically as to competing with or becoming more like them.

So, you seem to be evasive about what these thousands of people you have talked to, childhoods were like.

YOu obviously know, because you "know" that I am wrong.

So, please share. 

What were they like?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which 3rd grader, dope?
Click to expand...



Education policy, immigration policy, ect. such as saying "competition leads to improvement" is set by looking at the various groups as large groups.

So, the group of "Third Graders". All of them in a first world nation.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure that the CEOs of those companies are really busting their asses to find an American worker to fill the job......
Click to expand...



They are required to offer the position to an American worker - by law, dope.


----------



## OldLady

Correll said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't want to see American kids tortured to achieve spectacular grades, either.  Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
> I think, though, if you pull back and take a larger look at what's good for our country--kind of like Google Earth, are you with me?--a highly educated technological citizenry will benefit us all for the innovation and industry it will lead to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I do not believe that one (kids tortured) has anything to do with the other (highly educated technological citizenry).
> 
> It is fine to have a normal, Traditional American childhood, with snowball fights and family time, and to get more serious as the child becomes older.
Click to expand...

Of course!  But a highly educated work force does eventually lead to prosperity for all (or at least most, we would hope).  I was responding to your statement that "I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned."


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .....
> 
> REgardless, you have admitted that you cannot support your claims of "improvements" resulting from this increased competition.



YOU asked ME what the point of competition was, moron. Take notes if you can't remember what has been said.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure that the CEOs of those companies are really busting their asses to find an American worker to fill the job......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are required to offer the position to an American worker - by law, dope.
Click to expand...



And I have no faith that the people in question are following that law, or that those who are supposedly enforcing that law enforcing that law.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> REgardless, you have admitted that you cannot support your claims of "improvements" resulting from this increased competition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU asked ME what the point of competition was, moron. Take notes if you can't remember what has been said.
Click to expand...



And when asked to point out such "improvements" you tacitly admitted that you could not.


----------



## Unkotare

OldLady said:


> ...Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world......



Have you ever been in a school in Japan? Ever spoken to a student there, or even from there?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure that the CEOs of those companies are really busting their asses to find an American worker to fill the job......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are required to offer the position to an American worker - by law, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I have no faith that the people in question are following that law, or that those who are supposedly enforcing that law enforcing that law.
Click to expand...



Then your bitch is about law enforcement, not workers.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Horeshit!
> That law hasn't been enforced since 2004 when GW began his 2nd term.
Click to expand...


Complain to your representatives about law enforcement then.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are talking about construction, food services, house-cleaning, or manual labor you are talking out your ass again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not enough Americans?
> How about virtually NO Americans in ANY IT positions....
Click to expand...



6.5 million


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ...
> H1-Bs are dirt cheap, keep their mouths shut, work 24/7 and produce shit.




Wrong. Employers cannot, by law, pay H-1B visa workers below the prevailing wage for a given position.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ... as opposed to some young and hungry Third World Immigrant who will take the job for a lesser wage....




You really think uneducated immigrants from impoverished backgrounds are 'taking' high-tech jobs?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ......
> 
> And we can discuss such groups, specifically as to competing with or becoming more like them.
> 
> So, you seem to be evasive about what these thousands of people you have talked to, childhoods were like......




Every single person I've ever met - from anywhere - is a unique person and had (or has) a unique childhood. People are more than faceless masses, Karl.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which 3rd grader, dope?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Education policy, immigration policy, ect. such as saying "competition leads to improvement" is set by looking at the various groups as large groups.
> 
> So, the group of "Third Graders". All of them in a first world nation.
Click to expand...



Typical fucking liberal who simply cannot conceive of individuals as individuals.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .....
> 
> I do not believe that one (kids tortured) has anything to do with the other (highly educated technological citizenry).
> .......




A lazy, slack-ass loser sees hard work and competition as "torture." You are the weak link, Spicoli.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure that the CEOs of those companies are really busting their asses to find an American worker to fill the job......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are required to offer the position to an American worker - by law, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I have no faith that the people in question are following that law, or that those who are supposedly enforcing that law enforcing that law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then your bitch is about law enforcement, not workers.
Click to expand...



My "bitch" is about both, and far more.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... as opposed to some young and hungry Third World Immigrant who will take the job for a lesser wage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think uneducated immigrants from impoverished backgrounds are 'taking' high-tech jobs?
Click to expand...



No, I think well educated immigrants from a mix of shitty Third World or less wealthy First World Nations (SOuth Korea for example) are taking high tech jobs.

It is really hard for me to credit that you really thought I was referring to uneducated immigrants...


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure that the CEOs of those companies are really busting their asses to find an American worker to fill the job......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are required to offer the position to an American worker - by law, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I have no faith that the people in question are following that law, or that those who are supposedly enforcing that law enforcing that law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then your bitch is about law enforcement, not workers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My "bitch" is about both, and far more.
Click to expand...



So you want law enforcement, economic stagnation, and self-defeating isolationism. Great idea, genius.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... as opposed to some young and hungry Third World Immigrant who will take the job for a lesser wage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think uneducated immigrants from impoverished backgrounds are 'taking' high-tech jobs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, I think well educated immigrants from a mix of shitty Third World or less wealthy First World Nations (SOuth Korea for example) are taking high tech jobs........
Click to expand...



Again, you are so afraid of competition you'd rather see our economy suffer, sackless loser.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And we can discuss such groups, specifically as to competing with or becoming more like them.
> 
> So, you seem to be evasive about what these thousands of people you have talked to, childhoods were like......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single person I've ever met - from anywhere - is a unique person and had (or has) a unique childhood. People are more than faceless masses, Karl.
Click to expand...



So, their childhoods were that bad, uh?

I got it. It is hard, especially for some one like yourself who has so much of his self image tied up in being smart, to admit when they are wrong.

Now, as I was saying. I don't want that for American children.

I don't believe it is really that helpful, and that we can compete without such extreme measures.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which 3rd grader, dope?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Education policy, immigration policy, ect. such as saying "competition leads to improvement" is set by looking at the various groups as large groups.
> 
> So, the group of "Third Graders". All of them in a first world nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typical fucking liberal who simply cannot conceive of individuals as individuals.
Click to expand...


Mmm, yeah, I noticed you still refuse to answer the question.

How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not believe that one (kids tortured) has anything to do with the other (highly educated technological citizenry).
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lazy, slack-ass loser sees hard work and competition as "torture." You are the weak link, Spicoli.
Click to expand...



Nothing in your post directly addressed my point.

You seem to be taking the position that "hard work" specifically lots of homework and "competition" at an early age is required to have a "highly educated technological citizenry".

Yet you offer NO supporting logic or reasoning, or God Forbid, actual research to defend that position.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And we can discuss such groups, specifically as to competing with or becoming more like them.
> 
> So, you seem to be evasive about what these thousands of people you have talked to, childhoods were like......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single person I've ever met - from anywhere - is a unique person and had (or has) a unique childhood. People are more than faceless masses, Karl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, their childhoods were that bad, uh?.....
Click to expand...


Did I say that, Karl? Are you reduced to blatant dishonesty, Karl? The only rational conclusion you could draw from my comments is that their childhoods were fine and produced successful, well-adjusted, happy adults instead of slack-ass losers like you.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which 3rd grader, dope?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Education policy, immigration policy, ect. such as saying "competition leads to improvement" is set by looking at the various groups as large groups.
> 
> So, the group of "Third Graders". All of them in a first world nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typical fucking liberal who simply cannot conceive of individuals as individuals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mmm, yeah, I noticed you still refuse to answer the question.
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?
Click to expand...



Which 3rd grader?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm sure that the CEOs of those companies are really busting their asses to find an American worker to fill the job......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are required to offer the position to an American worker - by law, dope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I have no faith that the people in question are following that law, or that those who are supposedly enforcing that law enforcing that law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then your bitch is about law enforcement, not workers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My "bitch" is about both, and far more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you want law enforcement, economic stagnation, and self-defeating isolationism. Great idea, genius.
Click to expand...



I was a ideological Free Trader back in the day, when Japan was really crushing the Rust Belt.

I believed all the  people who said that it was "our" fault we were not competitive, from stupid CEO decisions to out of control union wages, ect, ect ect.

But, it's been a long time since then.

THe idea was that if we "worked harder" and "smarter" that we would become more "competitive" and the situation would turn to be more in our interests.

But a long time has pasted. We have had quite a bit of turnover in CEOs. Hell, Japanese companies are making cars her now. Unions are a shadow of what they once were. Wages have been stagnate or dropping for a long time. Productivity keeps climbing.

BUT, the Trade Deficit with Japan is bigger than ever. And we have added vastly larger trade deficits with China.

THese policies are NOT benefiting US. They have not been in the recent past, and I see no reason to expect them to in the foreseeable future.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... as opposed to some young and hungry Third World Immigrant who will take the job for a lesser wage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think uneducated immigrants from impoverished backgrounds are 'taking' high-tech jobs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, I think well educated immigrants from a mix of shitty Third World or less wealthy First World Nations (SOuth Korea for example) are taking high tech jobs........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again, you are so afraid of competition you'd rather see our economy suffer, sackless loser.
Click to expand...



Importing some immigrant to do the job for less might count as "competitive in some regards, however it  is not an "improvement".

I want to see the American Middle Class grow in relative size and absolute wealth.

If our policies are doing the opposite, ie shrinking the Middle Class in size and wealth, they are not beneficial to US.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And we can discuss such groups, specifically as to competing with or becoming more like them.
> 
> So, you seem to be evasive about what these thousands of people you have talked to, childhoods were like......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single person I've ever met - from anywhere - is a unique person and had (or has) a unique childhood. People are more than faceless masses, Karl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, their childhoods were that bad, uh?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I say that, Karl? Are you reduced to blatant dishonesty, Karl? The only rational conclusion you could draw from my comments is that their hildhoods were fine and produced successful, well-adjusted, happy adults instead of slack-ass losers like you.
Click to expand...


Your evasion on the issue certainly strongly implied that you had a reason for not discussing them, ie that they undermined your position and supported mine.

If you want to be more clearly understood, then stop being so evasive.


"Fine"? That is the first you have spoken of their childhoods.

Can you be more specific?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which 3rd grader, dope?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Education policy, immigration policy, ect. such as saying "competition leads to improvement" is set by looking at the various groups as large groups.
> 
> So, the group of "Third Graders". All of them in a first world nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Typical fucking liberal who simply cannot conceive of individuals as individuals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mmm, yeah, I noticed you still refuse to answer the question.
> 
> How much homework do you consider reasonable for a 3rd grader each night?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which 3rd grader?
Click to expand...



If you were serious, you would give you answer(s) and explain the differences between some 3rd graders and others that require different answers.

INstead, you play evasive games.

What are you trying to avoid discussing?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> Can you be more specific?




Ask a more specific question.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a more specific question.
Click to expand...



Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?

To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a more specific question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?
> 
> To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.
Click to expand...






Compared with who, moron?


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> H1-Bs are dirt cheap, keep their mouths shut, work 24/7 and produce shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong. Employers cannot, by law, pay H-1B visa workers below the prevailing wage for a given position.
Click to expand...


Repeating Horseshit doesn't turn it into Sirloin Steak.
The law has NOT been enforced since the beginning of GW's 2nd Term.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm talking about technology jobs such as in Silicon Valley which is being dominated by Asian immigrants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know what you're talking about. All you know is that your spinelessness makes you afraid of competition and hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do know what I am talking about........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. H-1B visas can't be offered until an attempt is made to fill the position with a US citizen. There simply_ is_ a shortage of Americans qualified to fill all the high-tech positions that need to be filled to keep our technology sector growing and moving. Facile declarations like "change education!" do nothing to fill those positions NOW, moron. Nor is "change education!" as simple as simpletons like you believe because that's what the bumper sticker told you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not enough Americans?
> How about virtually NO Americans in ANY IT positions....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 6.5 million
Click to expand...


If you are stating there are 6.5 million US born people in IT you're FOS.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a more specific question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?
> 
> To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with who, moron?
Click to expand...




Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.


And really, your evasion and rudeness is wearing pretty thin.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... as opposed to some young and hungry Third World Immigrant who will take the job for a lesser wage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think uneducated immigrants from impoverished backgrounds are 'taking' high-tech jobs?
Click to expand...


When a position is touted in a Bullshit Financial Publication as earning 80K/year and you can pay 5K to ship someone here from India for 20K/year?  Yes.

By the way, please be specific as to what that high-tech job entails.
How many people working for MS, IBM or Oracle or Facebook are working on Asyncronous Missile Defense Systems.
Most Software development is executing a SQL statement; hardly rocket science.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And we can discuss such groups, specifically as to competing with or becoming more like them.
> 
> So, you seem to be evasive about what these thousands of people you have talked to, childhoods were like......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every single person I've ever met - from anywhere - is a unique person and had (or has) a unique childhood. People are more than faceless masses, Karl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, their childhoods were that bad, uh?.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did I say that, Karl? Are you reduced to blatant dishonesty, Karl? The only rational conclusion you could draw from my comments is that their childhoods were fine and produced successful, well-adjusted, happy adults instead of slack-ass losers like you.
Click to expand...

I need a good laugh so tell me the last time Oracle, IBM or MS created a piece of software worth buying.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> The law has NOT been enforced since the beginning of GW's 2nd Term.




If you don't think so, you're problem is with law enforcement.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ...
> 
> When a position... earning 80K/year and you can pay 5K to ship someone here from India for 20K/year....




That would be illegal.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law has NOT been enforced since the beginning of GW's 2nd Term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't think so, you're problem is with law enforcement.
Click to expand...


And thankfully I have the millions of dollars it will take to have it enforced.
The problem is Federal, State and Municipalities ignoring the hundreds of thousands displaced American workers who have brought up this issue time and again.
There have already been at least a dozen lawsuits that have been dismissed by paid off judges.

By the way, almost every problem facing our society today is with lack of enforcement of the law.
In that case, we may as well all shut up and accept what's upsetting us.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When a position... earning 80K/year and you can pay 5K to ship someone here from India for 20K/year....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be illegal.
Click to expand...


So?  When Bill Gates pays for Representatives and Judges campaigns, he gets what he pays for.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a more specific question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?
> 
> To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with who, moron?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.
> .....
Click to expand...





Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner? 

Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law has NOT been enforced since the beginning of GW's 2nd Term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't think so, you're problem is with law enforcement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And thankfully I have the millions of dollars it will take to have it enforced......
Click to expand...



Go for it.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a more specific question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?
> 
> To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with who, moron?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner?
> 
> Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


It just makes me wonder why everyone on Earth wants to live in the US if their education system is so darned good.
Wouldn't they want to stay in their own ultra educated countries?


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The law has NOT been enforced since the beginning of GW's 2nd Term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't think so, you're problem is with law enforcement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And thankfully I have the millions of dollars it will take to have it enforced......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Go for it.
Click to expand...

I am.
It's called Trump or Sanders.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When a position... earning 80K/year and you can pay 5K to ship someone here from India for 20K/year....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  When Bill Gates pays for Representatives and Judges campaigns, he gets what he pays for.
Click to expand...



You have proof of Bill Gates breaking the law and of judges and law-makers involved in bribery and corruption? Go public with your proof and make yourself rich and famous.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When a position... earning 80K/year and you can pay 5K to ship someone here from India for 20K/year....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be illegal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So?  When Bill Gates pays for Representatives and Judges campaigns, he gets what he pays for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have proof of Bill Gates breaking the law and of judges and law-makers involved in bribery and corruption? Go public with your proof and make yourself rich and famous.
Click to expand...


Sure, just like the others before me who sued by the hundreds and the paid off judges told them to fuck off and die.
What Bill Gates and YOU have to prove...
What specific skills are they saying Americans DON'T possess...
Yes, my friend, that's right...the SPECIFIC skills set have NEVER been specified.

Why does every IT job specify a SUPERSET of EVERY possible IT skill that the employer will NEVER use.
How come Indian H1-Bs NEVER have to prove they possess this SUPERSET?
Never...I have seen 10s of Indians enter a Department WITHOUT being interviewed.

I'd love to see an interview of a Super Human Indian H1-B on CSPAN.
It will NEVER happen.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a more specific question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?
> 
> To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with who, moron?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner?
> 
> Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It just makes me wonder why everyone on Earth wants to live in the US if their education system is so darned good.
> Wouldn't they want to stay in their own ultra educated countries?
Click to expand...



American universities are by far the best in the world. Many intelligent families with the means to do so, bring their kids over here as early as possible to get them into the American educational system with the long-term goal of earning a college degree here.


----------



## Likkmee

OK children. Where do tomatoez cum frum ?
 Mezkin kid. " Semillas !!! "
merikkan*t* kid. " Winn Dixie !!! "

And what do farmers put on them to make them sweeter and more red for market ?
Mezkin kid. "Abono !!!"
merikkan*t* kid. "Hunts ketchup !!!"


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?
> 
> To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with who, moron?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner?
> 
> Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It just makes me wonder why everyone on Earth wants to live in the US if their education system is so darned good.
> Wouldn't they want to stay in their own ultra educated countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American universities are by far the best in the world. Many intelligent families with the means to do so, bring their kids over here as early as possible to get them into the American educational system with the long-term goal of earning a college degree here.
Click to expand...


Many indeed do.
My son works out at the gym and goes to college with some very bright, very goofy kids.
We also know lots of American kids who are bright and not goofy who can't get a job in their chosen field.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ...
> What specific skills are they saying Americans DON'T possess...
> Yes, my friend, that's right...the SPECIFIC skills set have NEVER been specified.




America has 5.8 million job openings


"For years, experts have warned that Americans don't have the skills required for new job fields, especially in engineering, technical and science-related jobs.

"It's definitely a concern, and it should be a concern for anyone who cares about the future of U.S. workers," says Chris Tilly, an economics professor at U.C.L.A."


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with who, moron?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner?
> 
> Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It just makes me wonder why everyone on Earth wants to live in the US if their education system is so darned good.
> Wouldn't they want to stay in their own ultra educated countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American universities are by far the best in the world. Many intelligent families with the means to do so, bring their kids over here as early as possible to get them into the American educational system with the long-term goal of earning a college degree here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many indeed do.....
Click to expand...



Nearly 100,000 international students in American primary and high schools.


----------



## Gracie

Where are the asians in that graph? Oh. Wait.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> What specific skills are they saying Americans DON'T possess...
> Yes, my friend, that's right...the SPECIFIC skills set have NEVER been specified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America has 5.8 million job openings
> 
> 
> "For years, experts have warned that Americans don't have the skills required for new job fields, especially in engineering, technical and science-related jobs.
> 
> "It's definitely a concern, and it should be a concern for anyone who cares about the future of U.S. workers," says Chris Tilly, an economics professor at U.C.L.A."
Click to expand...


I've been reading this bullshit since post 9/11/2001.
You really think you're going to post any nonsense I haven't seen already?
There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.
Try harder.
Or better yet, don't try at all.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.
> .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner?
> 
> Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It just makes me wonder why everyone on Earth wants to live in the US if their education system is so darned good.
> Wouldn't they want to stay in their own ultra educated countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American universities are by far the best in the world. Many intelligent families with the means to do so, bring their kids over here as early as possible to get them into the American educational system with the long-term goal of earning a college degree here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many indeed do.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 100,000 international students in American primary and high schools.
Click to expand...


Taking American jobs because they accept lower pay, longer days and emotionally disturbed managers.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> What specific skills are they saying Americans DON'T possess...
> Yes, my friend, that's right...the SPECIFIC skills set have NEVER been specified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America has 5.8 million job openings
> 
> 
> "For years, experts have warned that Americans don't have the skills required for new job fields, especially in engineering, technical and science-related jobs.
> 
> "It's definitely a concern, and it should be a concern for anyone who cares about the future of U.S. workers," says Chris Tilly, an economics professor at U.C.L.A."
Click to expand...


It really does crack me up when someone uses a Financial Publication to publicize the lack of Science talent.
Perhaps we should get Popular Science to write an article on how full of shit Financial Publications are when they claim that all Americans suck at Science.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......





I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner?
> 
> Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just makes me wonder why everyone on Earth wants to live in the US if their education system is so darned good.
> Wouldn't they want to stay in their own ultra educated countries?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American universities are by far the best in the world. Many intelligent families with the means to do so, bring their kids over here as early as possible to get them into the American educational system with the long-term goal of earning a college degree here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many indeed do.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 100,000 international students in American primary and high schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Taking American jobs because they accept lower pay, longer days and emotionally disturbed managers.
Click to expand...



High school kids and younger are "taking American jobs"? How hysterical do you plan to get with this?


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> What specific skills are they saying Americans DON'T possess...
> Yes, my friend, that's right...the SPECIFIC skills set have NEVER been specified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America has 5.8 million job openings
> 
> 
> "For years, experts have warned that Americans don't have the skills required for new job fields, especially in engineering, technical and science-related jobs.
> 
> "It's definitely a concern, and it should be a concern for anyone who cares about the future of U.S. workers," says Chris Tilly, an economics professor at U.C.L.A."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It really does crack me up when someone uses a Financial Publication to publicize the lack of Science talent......
Click to expand...



Your desperation has made you illogical.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
Click to expand...


A Financial Publication is evidence.
Now I know what a dupe you are.
Here's some logic, brainiac...
This complaint has been around since 2002.
You think maybe a FEW American students would have gone into various fields of Science?
Well, they did!
And you want to know what happened, Brainiac?
All the Financial Publications kept parroting the same Bullshit YEAR AFTER YEAR.
No matter what field of Science Americans went into, they SOMEHOW just DIDN'T have the skills.
But you know who DID have the skills?
Not the British.
Not the Germans.
Not the French.
Not the Italians.
Not the Japanese.
Not the Russians.
Not the Swedes.
Certainly not ANYONE from the African continent.
Shall I continue, ASSHAT?
YOU KNOW WHO HAD THE SKILLS...
The INDIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Until they get their Green Card...then they are fired and no longer have the skills.
Then the next batch take their place.

Anymore Financial Publication bullshit for us?


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> It just makes me wonder why everyone on Earth wants to live in the US if their education system is so darned good.
> Wouldn't they want to stay in their own ultra educated countries?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American universities are by far the best in the world. Many intelligent families with the means to do so, bring their kids over here as early as possible to get them into the American educational system with the long-term goal of earning a college degree here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Many indeed do.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 100,000 international students in American primary and high schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Taking American jobs because they accept lower pay, longer days and emotionally disturbed managers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> High school kids and younger are "taking American jobs"? How hysterical do you plan to get with this?
Click to expand...

They graduate from college and get the jobs, asshat.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> What specific skills are they saying Americans DON'T possess...
> Yes, my friend, that's right...the SPECIFIC skills set have NEVER been specified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America has 5.8 million job openings
> 
> 
> "For years, experts have warned that Americans don't have the skills required for new job fields, especially in engineering, technical and science-related jobs.
> 
> "It's definitely a concern, and it should be a concern for anyone who cares about the future of U.S. workers," says Chris Tilly, an economics professor at U.C.L.A."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It really does crack me up when someone uses a Financial Publication to publicize the lack of Science talent......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your desperation has made you illogical.
Click to expand...


And you ejaculate to Financial Publication articles.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
Click to expand...



About employment data? Yes.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> What specific skills are they saying Americans DON'T possess...
> Yes, my friend, that's right...the SPECIFIC skills set have NEVER been specified.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> America has 5.8 million job openings
> 
> 
> "For years, experts have warned that Americans don't have the skills required for new job fields, especially in engineering, technical and science-related jobs.
> 
> "It's definitely a concern, and it should be a concern for anyone who cares about the future of U.S. workers," says Chris Tilly, an economics professor at U.C.L.A."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It really does crack me up when someone uses a Financial Publication to publicize the lack of Science talent......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your desperation has made you illogical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you ejaculate to Financial Publication articles.
Click to expand...



You're hysterical because you can't take your shrieking anywhere beyond "I say so!"


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
Click to expand...



Graduate? LOL

2/3 of the idiots who graduate need remedial education to get into even a lowbrow community college


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
Click to expand...


Employment data?
You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.


----------



## ChrisL

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
Click to expand...


Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course!  With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> American universities are by far the best in the world. Many intelligent families with the means to do so, bring their kids over here as early as possible to get them into the American educational system with the long-term goal of earning a college degree here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many indeed do.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nearly 100,000 international students in American primary and high schools.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Taking American jobs because they accept lower pay, longer days and emotionally disturbed managers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> High school kids and younger are "taking American jobs"? How hysterical do you plan to get with this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They graduate from college and get the jobs....
Click to expand...



Most people aim to find employment after college.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employment data?...
Click to expand...



Yes, employment data. I gave you the link. What have you provided?


----------



## Unkotare

ChrisL said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course! ....
Click to expand...



Not "of course." Paying below the market rate for a given position is illegal under the applicable law.


----------



## Indeependent

ChrisL said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> There have been at least 3 million Americans since 2002 who have graduated with hard science degrees who have been ignored or dropped out of the market in favor of low wage Business Visas.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course!  With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
Click to expand...


Unkotare is an expert for seeing the Forest and not the Trees.
It's the usual, "I read an article!".
Great!  What does the article MEAN?
What's the CONTEXT of the article?
As I have already stated, I have been reading these CLONED articles since 2003 and the ONLY benefactors of these articles have been employers of low wage Indian Business Visas and the Indian Business Owners who ship them here by the planeloads.
In the meanwhile, with the exception of Apple and possibly a lucky move by Google, all of our software companies have produces nothing significant in since the early 2000s.


----------



## Unkotare

ChrisL said:


> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."




If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course! ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not "of course." Paying below the market rate for a given position is illegal under the applicable law.
Click to expand...


Look, drop the nonsense with the law.
Try dealing with reality.
It's like Bernie Madoff faking his investor's statements for 20 years and everybody just going along with the good news.
These Indian H1-Bs are paid way under market rate and not one Judge or Representative could give a hoot.


----------



## ChrisL

Unkotare said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I supported my claim with evidence. Where's yours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course! ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not "of course." Paying below the market rate for a given position is illegal under the applicable law.
Click to expand...


Motivation For Hiring Alien Workers?


----------



## ChrisL

Unkotare said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
Click to expand...


It's a LIE.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
Click to expand...


A lot of Accounting work gets off-shored.
Citibank started off-shoring to Ireland in the early 1980s.
We have load of kids graduating with Mechanical and Electrical Engineering degrees since 2003 having a bitch of a time getting interviews.
Don't forget...these articles have been cloned since 2003...13 years ago.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
Click to expand...

Take this as a compliment...
If you are for upholding the law I will vote for you.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ...
> It's the usual, "I read an article!".....




I haven't read one you posted on the subject.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

If Americans are demanding too much money then business will inevitably look elsewhere.
Its a consequence of the free market economy. Its what made America great.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ......
> Don't forget...these articles have been cloned since 2003...13 years ago.




Your "clone" claim supported by nothing but your insistence.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Financial Publication is evidence......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course! ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not "of course." Paying below the market rate for a given position is illegal under the applicable law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look, drop the nonsense with the law......
Click to expand...



Oh, the law is nonsense to you? Gonna rob some banks or steal a car this week?


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ...
> These Indian H1-Bs are paid way under market rate and not one Judge or Representative could give a hoot.




Prove all those claims.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> It's the usual, "I read an article!".....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read one you posted on the subject.
Click to expand...


What major Publication would publish an article that would piss off it's advertisers?

ChrisL posted the counterpoint.


Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> It's the usual, "I read an article!".....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read one you posted on the subject.
Click to expand...

Migrant kids outperform local kids
I refer you back to this post.
If you can't understand it, you're not worthy of having a discussion with.
If you can understand it, and you're contesting it's logic, you're not worthy of having a discussion with.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> About employment data? Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course! ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not "of course." Paying below the market rate for a given position is illegal under the applicable law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look, drop the nonsense with the law......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the law is nonsense to you? Gonna rob some banks or steal a car this week?
Click to expand...


Please tell me you are not as stupid as this post.
I stated, quite explicitly, that companies and paid off judges have no regard for the law.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> These Indian H1-Bs are paid way under market rate and not one Judge or Representative could give a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove all those claims.
Click to expand...

Subscribe to ProgrammersGuild.com and you'll constantly get notified of judges throwing these lawsuits out of court.


----------



## ChrisL

Unkotare said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
Click to expand...


We are a country of over 300 million people, and MANY who are unemployed and underemployed.  

The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage

Among college-educated information technology workers under age 30, temporary workers from abroad constitute a large majority. Even in electrical and electronic engineering—an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad—U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.

Claims of workforce shortages in science and engineering are hardly new. Indeed there have been no fewer than five “rounds” of “alarm/boom/bust” cycles since World War II. Each lasted about 10 to 15 years, and was initiated by alarms of “shortages,” followed by policies to increase the supply of scientists and engineers. Unfortunately most were followed by painful busts—mass layoffs, hiring freezes, and funding cuts that inflicted severe damage to careers of both mature professionals and the booming numbers of emerging graduates, while also discouraging new entrants to these fields.  


Round one from the decade immediately following World War II, waning a decade later.
Round two following the Sputnik launches in 1957 but waning sharply by the late 1960s, leading to a bust of serious magnitude in the 1970s.
Round three from the 1980s Reagan defense buildup, alarming Federal reports such as “A Nation at Risk” (1983), and new Federal funding for the “war on cancer.” Most of these had waned by the late 1980s, contributing to an ensuing bust in the early 1990s.
Round four from the mid-1990s, driven by concurrent booms in several high-tech industries (e.g. information technology, internet, telecommunications, biotech), followed by concurrent busts beginning around 2001.
Round five from the rapid doubling of the National Institutes of Health budget between 1998 and 2003, followed by a bust when subsequent funding flattened.
Each of these rounds was accompanied by excessive claims, and a notable lack of credible evidence. Rounds one through three were motivated by existential Cold War concerns, with advocates focused on expanding the numbers of US students pursuing higher education and careers in science and engineering. As I discovered while researching my book, during rounds four and five, after Cold War security concerns had waned, shortage claimants focused on visa policies that enabled U.S. employers and universities to recruit large numbers of temporary workers and graduate students from countries (especially China and India) that had rapid growth in science and engineering graduates but much lower income levels.

Ironically the vigorous claims of shortages concern occupations in science and engineering, yet manage to ignore or reject most of the science-based evidence on the subject. The repeated past cycles of “alarm/boom/bust” have misallocated public and private resources by periodically expanding higher education in science and engineering beyond levels for which there were attractive career opportunities. In so doing they produced large unintended costs for those talented students who devoted many years of advanced education to prepare for careers that turned out to be unattractive by the time they graduated, or who later experienced massive layoffs in mid-career with few prospects to be rehired.

Recent forecasts of looming shortages of scientists and engineers may prove to be self-fulfilling prophecies if they result in further declines in the attractiveness of science and engineering careers for talented American students.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> Don't forget...these articles have been cloned since 2003...13 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your "clone" claim supported by nothing but your insistence.
Click to expand...


If you are as old as you claim than you have not been reading Financial Publications for very long.
You DO claim to be in your 50s or 60s?


----------



## Indeependent

ChrisL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are a country of over 300 million people, and MANY who are unemployed and underemployed.
> 
> The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
> 
> Among college-educated information technology workers under age 30, temporary workers from abroad constitute a large majority. Even in electrical and electronic engineering—an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad—U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.
> 
> Claims of workforce shortages in science and engineering are hardly new. Indeed there have been no fewer than five “rounds” of “alarm/boom/bust” cycles since World War II. Each lasted about 10 to 15 years, and was initiated by alarms of “shortages,” followed by policies to increase the supply of scientists and engineers. Unfortunately most were followed by painful busts—mass layoffs, hiring freezes, and funding cuts that inflicted severe damage to careers of both mature professionals and the booming numbers of emerging graduates, while also discouraging new entrants to these fields.
> 
> 
> Round one from the decade immediately following World War II, waning a decade later.
> Round two following the Sputnik launches in 1957 but waning sharply by the late 1960s, leading to a bust of serious magnitude in the 1970s.
> Round three from the 1980s Reagan defense buildup, alarming Federal reports such as “A Nation at Risk” (1983), and new Federal funding for the “war on cancer.” Most of these had waned by the late 1980s, contributing to an ensuing bust in the early 1990s.
> Round four from the mid-1990s, driven by concurrent booms in several high-tech industries (e.g. information technology, internet, telecommunications, biotech), followed by concurrent busts beginning around 2001.
> Round five from the rapid doubling of the National Institutes of Health budget between 1998 and 2003, followed by a bust when subsequent funding flattened.
> Each of these rounds was accompanied by excessive claims, and a notable lack of credible evidence. Rounds one through three were motivated by existential Cold War concerns, with advocates focused on expanding the numbers of US students pursuing higher education and careers in science and engineering. As I discovered while researching my book, during rounds four and five, after Cold War security concerns had waned, shortage claimants focused on visa policies that enabled U.S. employers and universities to recruit large numbers of temporary workers and graduate students from countries (especially China and India) that had rapid growth in science and engineering graduates but much lower income levels.
> 
> Ironically the vigorous claims of shortages concern occupations in science and engineering, yet manage to ignore or reject most of the science-based evidence on the subject. The repeated past cycles of “alarm/boom/bust” have misallocated public and private resources by periodically expanding higher education in science and engineering beyond levels for which there were attractive career opportunities. In so doing they produced large unintended costs for those talented students who devoted many years of advanced education to prepare for careers that turned out to be unattractive by the time they graduated, or who later experienced massive layoffs in mid-career with few prospects to be rehired.
> 
> Recent forecasts of looming shortages of scientists and engineers may prove to be self-fulfilling prophecies if they result in further declines in the attractiveness of science and engineering careers for talented American students.
Click to expand...


Unkotare is an Open Borders, low wage loving, Conservative


----------



## Unkotare

ChrisL said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a LIE.
Click to expand...



Supply & demand mismatch leaves STEM jobs unfilled


High-tech companies' struggle to fill job openings could slow


These 16 Industries Are Bleeding Billions A Year Due To Unfilled Jobs


There Are 4 Million U.S. Job Openings: Why Are The Positions Unfilled?


Three million open jobs in U.S., but who's qualified?


----------



## ChrisL

Indeependent said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are a country of over 300 million people, and MANY who are unemployed and underemployed.
> 
> The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
> 
> Among college-educated information technology workers under age 30, temporary workers from abroad constitute a large majority. Even in electrical and electronic engineering—an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad—U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.
> 
> Claims of workforce shortages in science and engineering are hardly new. Indeed there have been no fewer than five “rounds” of “alarm/boom/bust” cycles since World War II. Each lasted about 10 to 15 years, and was initiated by alarms of “shortages,” followed by policies to increase the supply of scientists and engineers. Unfortunately most were followed by painful busts—mass layoffs, hiring freezes, and funding cuts that inflicted severe damage to careers of both mature professionals and the booming numbers of emerging graduates, while also discouraging new entrants to these fields.
> 
> 
> Round one from the decade immediately following World War II, waning a decade later.
> Round two following the Sputnik launches in 1957 but waning sharply by the late 1960s, leading to a bust of serious magnitude in the 1970s.
> Round three from the 1980s Reagan defense buildup, alarming Federal reports such as “A Nation at Risk” (1983), and new Federal funding for the “war on cancer.” Most of these had waned by the late 1980s, contributing to an ensuing bust in the early 1990s.
> Round four from the mid-1990s, driven by concurrent booms in several high-tech industries (e.g. information technology, internet, telecommunications, biotech), followed by concurrent busts beginning around 2001.
> Round five from the rapid doubling of the National Institutes of Health budget between 1998 and 2003, followed by a bust when subsequent funding flattened.
> Each of these rounds was accompanied by excessive claims, and a notable lack of credible evidence. Rounds one through three were motivated by existential Cold War concerns, with advocates focused on expanding the numbers of US students pursuing higher education and careers in science and engineering. As I discovered while researching my book, during rounds four and five, after Cold War security concerns had waned, shortage claimants focused on visa policies that enabled U.S. employers and universities to recruit large numbers of temporary workers and graduate students from countries (especially China and India) that had rapid growth in science and engineering graduates but much lower income levels.
> 
> Ironically the vigorous claims of shortages concern occupations in science and engineering, yet manage to ignore or reject most of the science-based evidence on the subject. The repeated past cycles of “alarm/boom/bust” have misallocated public and private resources by periodically expanding higher education in science and engineering beyond levels for which there were attractive career opportunities. In so doing they produced large unintended costs for those talented students who devoted many years of advanced education to prepare for careers that turned out to be unattractive by the time they graduated, or who later experienced massive layoffs in mid-career with few prospects to be rehired.
> 
> Recent forecasts of looming shortages of scientists and engineers may prove to be self-fulfilling prophecies if they result in further declines in the attractiveness of science and engineering careers for talented American students.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare is an Open Borders, low wage loving, Conservative
Click to expand...


I don't think I've ever met an "open borders" conservative before.  Lol.


----------



## ChrisL

Unkotare said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a LIE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Supply & demand mismatch leaves STEM jobs unfilled
> 
> 
> High-tech companies' struggle to fill job openings could slow
> 
> 
> These 16 Industries Are Bleeding Billions A Year Due To Unfilled Jobs
> 
> 
> There Are 4 Million U.S. Job Openings: Why Are The Positions Unfilled?
> 
> 
> Three million open jobs in U.S., but who's qualified?
Click to expand...


STEM Grads Are at a Loss

All credible research finds the same evidence about the STEM workforce: ample supply, stagnant wages and, by industry accounts, thousands of applicants for any advertised job. The real concern should be about the dim employment prospects for our best STEM graduates: The National Institutes of Health, for example, has developed a program to help new biomedical Ph.D.s find alternative careers in the face of “unattractive” job prospects in the field. Opportunities for engineers vary by the field and economic cycle – as oil exploration has increased, so has demand (and salaries) for petroleum engineers, resulting in a near tripling of petroleum engineering graduates. In contrast,average wages in the IT industry are the same as those that prevailed when Bill Clinton was presidentdespite industry cries of a “shortage.” Overall, U.S. colleges produce twice the number of STEM graduates annually as find jobs in those fields.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Take this as a compliment...
> If you are for upholding the law I will vote for you.
Click to expand...



Thanks, but I'm not running for office. Nice to know I'd have one vote if I did.


----------



## Unkotare

ChrisL said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... With all the people we have here in America who are underemployed or unemployed, we don't need any more foreigners coming with "work visas."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have unemployed accountants but need engineers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are a country of over 300 million people, and MANY who are unemployed and underemployed.
> 
> The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
> 
> Among college-educated information technology workers under age 30, temporary workers from abroad constitute a large majority. Even in electrical and electronic engineering—an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad—U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.
> 
> Claims of workforce shortages in science and engineering are hardly new. Indeed there have been no fewer than five “rounds” of “alarm/boom/bust” cycles since World War II. Each lasted about 10 to 15 years, and was initiated by alarms of “shortages,” followed by policies to increase the supply of scientists and engineers. Unfortunately most were followed by painful busts—mass layoffs, hiring freezes, and funding cuts that inflicted severe damage to careers of both mature professionals and the booming numbers of emerging graduates, while also discouraging new entrants to these fields.
> 
> 
> Round one from the decade immediately following World War II, waning a decade later.
> Round two following the Sputnik launches in 1957 but waning sharply by the late 1960s, leading to a bust of serious magnitude in the 1970s.
> Round three from the 1980s Reagan defense buildup, alarming Federal reports such as “A Nation at Risk” (1983), and new Federal funding for the “war on cancer.” Most of these had waned by the late 1980s, contributing to an ensuing bust in the early 1990s.
> Round four from the mid-1990s, driven by concurrent booms in several high-tech industries (e.g. information technology, internet, telecommunications, biotech), followed by concurrent busts beginning around 2001.
> Round five from the rapid doubling of the National Institutes of Health budget between 1998 and 2003, followed by a bust when subsequent funding flattened.
> Each of these rounds was accompanied by excessive claims, and a notable lack of credible evidence. Rounds one through three were motivated by existential Cold War concerns, with advocates focused on expanding the numbers of US students pursuing higher education and careers in science and engineering. As I discovered while researching my book, during rounds four and five, after Cold War security concerns had waned, shortage claimants focused on visa policies that enabled U.S. employers and universities to recruit large numbers of temporary workers and graduate students from countries (especially China and India) that had rapid growth in science and engineering graduates but much lower income levels.
> 
> Ironically the vigorous claims of shortages concern occupations in science and engineering, yet manage to ignore or reject most of the science-based evidence on the subject. The repeated past cycles of “alarm/boom/bust” have misallocated public and private resources by periodically expanding higher education in science and engineering beyond levels for which there were attractive career opportunities. In so doing they produced large unintended costs for those talented students who devoted many years of advanced education to prepare for careers that turned out to be unattractive by the time they graduated, or who later experienced massive layoffs in mid-career with few prospects to be rehired.
> 
> Recent forecasts of looming shortages of scientists and engineers may prove to be self-fulfilling prophecies if they result in further declines in the attractiveness of science and engineering careers for talented American students.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare is an Open Borders, low wage loving, Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think I've ever met an "open borders" conservative before.  Lol.
Click to expand...



And you haven't yet.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ......
> 
> Unkotare is an Open Borders, low wage loving, Conservative




Reduced to simply lying and misrepresenting? How sad for you.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ....
> You DO claim to be in your 50s or 60s?




When did I claim that? Are you drunk?


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Employment data?
> You mean the claim since 2003 or so that there are X number of career openings and there's NO Americans or non-Indian Business Visas anywhere on Earth to fill them.
> So please explain to everyone here why ONLY Indian Business Visas, since 2003, have the skills to fill these positions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because employers don't have to pay them as much, of course! ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not "of course." Paying below the market rate for a given position is illegal under the applicable law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look, drop the nonsense with the law......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, the law is nonsense to you? Gonna rob some banks or steal a car this week?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please tell me you are not as stupid as this post.
> I stated, quite explicitly, that companies and paid off judges have no regard for the law.
Click to expand...



Name these judges.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> These Indian H1-Bs are paid way under market rate and not one Judge or Representative could give a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove all those claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Subscribe to ProgrammersGuild.com and you'll constantly get notified of judges throwing these lawsuits out of court.
Click to expand...


I said "(p)rove all those claims," not refer to another site.


----------



## ChrisL

This is from the Institute of Electronic Engineers.  

The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum

What’s perhaps most perplexing about the claim of a STEM worker shortage is that many studies have directly contradicted it, including reports from Duke University, the Rochester Institute of Technology, the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, and the Rand Corp. A 2004 Rand study, for example, stated that there was no evidence “that such shortages have existed at least since 1990, nor that they are on the horizon.”

That report argued that the best indicator of a shortfall would be a widespread rise in salaries throughout the STEM community. But the price of labor has not risen, as you would expect it to do if STEM workers were scarce. In computing and IT, wages have generally been stagnant for the past decade, according to the EPI and other analyses. And over the past 30 years, according to the Georgetown report, engineers’ and engineering technicians’ wages have grown the least of all STEM wages and also more slowly than those in non-STEM fields; while STEM workers as a group have seen wages rise 33 percent and non-STEM workers’ wages rose by 23 percent, engineering salaries grew by just 18 percent. The situation is even more grim for those who get a Ph.D. in science, math, or engineering. The Georgetown study states it succinctly: “At the highest levels of educational attainment, STEM wages are not competitive.”

Given all of the above, it is difficult to make a case that there has been, is, or will soon be a STEM labor shortage. “If there was really a STEM labor market crisis, you’d be seeing very different behaviors from companies,” notes Ron Hira, an associate professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology, in New York state. “You wouldn’t see companies cutting their retirement contributions, or hiring new workers and giving them worse benefits packages. Instead you would see signing bonuses, you’d see wage increases. You would see these companies really training their incumbent workers.”

“None of those things are observable,” Hira says. “In fact, they’re operating in the opposite way.”

So why the persistent anxiety that a STEM crisis exists? Michael S. Teitelbaum, a Wertheim Fellow at Harvard Law School and a senior advisor to the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, has studied the phenomenon, and he says that in the United States the anxiety dates back to World War II. Ever since then it has tended to run in cycles that he calls “alarm, boom, and bust.” He says the cycle usually starts when “someone or some group sounds the alarm that there is a critical crisis of insufficient numbers of scientists, engineers, and mathematicians” and as a result the country “is in jeopardy of either a national security risk or of falling behind economically.” In the 1950s, he notes, Americans worried that theSoviet Union was producing 95 000 scientists and engineers a year while the United States was producing only about 57 000. In the 1980s, it was the perceived Japanese economic juggernaut that was the threat, and now it is China and India.

You’ll hear similar arguments made elsewhere. In India, the director general of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, Vijay Kumar Saraswat, recently noted that in his country, “a meagre four persons out of every 1000 are choosing S&T or research, as compared to 110 in Japan, 76 in Germany and Israel, 55 in USA, 46 in Korea and 8 in China.” Leaders in South Africa and Brazil cite similar statistics to show how they are likewise falling behind in the STEM race.

“The government responds either with money [for research] or, more recently, with visas to increase the number of STEM workers,” Teitelbaum says. “This continues for a number of years until the claims of a shortage turn out not to be true and a bust ensues.” Students who graduate during the bust, he says, are shocked to discover that “they can’t find jobs, or they find jobs but not stable ones.”


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> These Indian H1-Bs are paid way under market rate and not one Judge or Representative could give a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove all those claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Subscribe to ProgrammersGuild.com and you'll constantly get notified of judges throwing these lawsuits out of court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said "(p)rove all those claims," not refer to another site.
Click to expand...


98% of Business Visas come from India.
BTW, you're article proved nothing; it was an opinion piece.

Please explain why only Indians are qualified for STEM; it mystifies me.


----------



## Indeependent

Flush Indian Startups Face Shortage of Skilled Workers
One of my favorite recent articles.
Indian business people state that Indians suck at IT.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> These Indian H1-Bs are paid way under market rate and not one Judge or Representative could give a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove all those claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Subscribe to ProgrammersGuild.com and you'll constantly get notified of judges throwing these lawsuits out of court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said "(p)rove all those claims," not refer to another site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 98% of Business Visas come from India.
> BTW, you're article proved nothing; it was an opinion piece.
> 
> Please explain why only Indians are qualified for STEM; it mystifies me.
Click to expand...



Do you see what ChrisL did above? Do you understand how that differs from your whiny hysteria?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ask a more specific question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Was there far more pressure and work at early ages to "compete" for better test scores and admissions to better schools?
> 
> To the point of having far less time for time with family, friends and/or sleep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared with who, moron?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to Western First World nations, either the UK per the op, OR of course America, of say the 70s and 80s.
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just 45 years ago? Why not be more specific? How about Maysville, KY circa 1982 in a Protestant, Dutch-English-American family that ate apple pie everyday and whose father was a wealthy business owner?
> 
> Anything other than exactly that is just TORTURE!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...



And you still refuse to answer the question.


I've made my point(s), clearly, repeatedly, honestly and clearly.

You have expressed your disagreement strongly and rudely, but without any substance or supporting logic, reasoning or links.

You simply don't have the moral courage and intellectual honestly to admit that you cannot defend your position.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....




Which question?


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> These Indian H1-Bs are paid way under market rate and not one Judge or Representative could give a hoot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove all those claims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Subscribe to ProgrammersGuild.com and you'll constantly get notified of judges throwing these lawsuits out of court.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said "(p)rove all those claims," not refer to another site.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 98% of Business Visas come from India.
> BTW, you're article proved nothing; it was an opinion piece.
> 
> Please explain why only Indians are qualified for STEM; it mystifies me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see what ChrisL did above? Do you understand how that differs from your whiny hysteria?
Click to expand...


You mean my actual experience and logic vs. an article?
Yes, I have read these very few articled a million times also.
But what if there were no articles against H1-Bs?
You still wouldn't apply simple logic to realize what's been happening since 2003.
The fact that you need an article to see anything real is what concerns me.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> ....
> 
> You mean my actual experience and logic vs. an article?.....




You have not supported any so-called experience, and you are clearly unfamiliar with logic.


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> If Americans are demanding too much money then business will inevitably look elsewhere.
> Its a consequence of the free market economy. Its what made America great.





Americans aren't demanding to much money.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> You mean my actual experience and logic vs. an article?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have not supported any so-called experience, and you are clearly unfamiliar with logic.
Click to expand...


I already asked you to explain to us why 98% of Business Visas are from India.
Please explain why all other nations produce inferior Science graduates.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
Click to expand...


Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?


----------



## Indeependent

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
Click to expand...


Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.


----------



## Correll

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
Click to expand...


Sounds about right.

He claims that "Competition" is good because it leads to "improvement", but gets evasive and rude when I ask him to point out some improvements from the OP's "competition".

I make some comment about not torturing our children with undue pressure and useless homework, and he gets angry, but won't clearly state what he thinks is a reasonable amount of homework for a 3rd grader.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> You mean my actual experience and logic vs. an article?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have not supported any so-called experience, and you are clearly unfamiliar with logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I already asked you to explain to us why 98% of Business Visas are from India.....
Click to expand...



Thus proving that you are unfamiliar with logic. You're quite the little emo-queen, aren't you?


----------



## Indeependent

Correll said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds about right.
> 
> He claims that "Competition" is good because it leads to "improvement", but gets evasive and rude when I ask him to point out some improvements from the OP's "competition".
> 
> I make some comment about not torturing our children with undue pressure and useless homework, and he gets angry, but won't clearly state what he thinks is a reasonable amount of homework for a 3rd grader.
Click to expand...


My emphasis is NOT on the truth that we have no STEM shortage.
My emphasis is on the LIES perpetrated by Big Business.
If Korporate Amerika can lie about 1 issue, it can lie about anything.

Senate Bill S744 and House Bill HR633 are lies about American shortages in 10 different professions.
In 10 years, the American middle class will be devastated.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> You mean my actual experience and logic vs. an article?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have not supported any so-called experience, and you are clearly unfamiliar with logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I already asked you to explain to us why 98% of Business Visas are from India.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thus proving that you are unfamiliar with logic. You're quite the little emo-queen, aren't you?
Click to expand...

Read Post 238, child.
And go ahead, read those 2 piece of shit legislation.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> You mean my actual experience and logic vs. an article?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have not supported any so-called experience, and you are clearly unfamiliar with logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I already asked you to explain to us why 98% of Business Visas are from India.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thus proving that you are unfamiliar with logic. You're quite the little emo-queen, aren't you?
Click to expand...

Please explain why only Indians are qualified for STEM.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
Click to expand...



This is what you've been reduced to? Have a little self-respect.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you've been reduced to? Have a little self-respect.
Click to expand...


You're dodging a 13 year old question that you never bothered to think about...
Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> And you still refuse to answer the question.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you've been reduced to? Have a little self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're dodging a 13 year old question that you never bothered to think about...
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
Click to expand...








Is your straw man Indian?


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which question?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you've been reduced to? Have a little self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're dodging a 13 year old question that you never bothered to think about...
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is your straw man Indian?
Click to expand...

Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? So you can continue to not answer it(them)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you've been reduced to? Have a little self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're dodging a 13 year old question that you never bothered to think about...
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is your straw man Indian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
Click to expand...




Please ask your straw man yourself.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare probably doesn't believe in the American Revolution because it's not on YouTube.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you've been reduced to? Have a little self-respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're dodging a 13 year old question that you never bothered to think about...
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is your straw man Indian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please ask your straw man yourself.
Click to expand...

I know the reason, you refuse to recognize that there's a question.
You are a Conservative blinded by your irrational Humanism.


----------



## Unkotare

Indeependent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what you've been reduced to? Have a little self-respect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're dodging a 13 year old question that you never bothered to think about...
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is your straw man Indian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please ask your straw man yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know the reason.....
Click to expand...



You know the reason why a straw man is illogical? That's a start.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare, this will be hard for you to accept but you have had you ass handed to you in this thread.

You really need to revisit your assumptions and run thought your thought processes a few times.


----------



## Unkotare

Keep telling yourself that, champ.


----------



## Indeependent

Unkotare said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're dodging a 13 year old question that you never bothered to think about...
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is your straw man Indian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please explain why, since 2003, only Indians are qualified for STEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please ask your straw man yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know the reason.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You know the reason why a straw man is illogical? That's a start.
Click to expand...

In other words, "DUH!".
Please tell us why Indians, since 2003, have been the only nationality to be considered skilled in Tech.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Keep telling yourself that, champ.




I've seen you do much better in other threads.

Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.

It showed.

YOu are NOT good enough to defend a weak position.

Your evasiveness was a real tell.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that, champ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen you do much better in other threads.
> 
> Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Such as?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that, champ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen you do much better in other threads.
> 
> Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such as?
Click to expand...


Such as the unquestioned premise that "Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements".

"Improvements" which you can't define and don't seem to serve the interests of the Citizens in question.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that, champ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen you do much better in other threads.
> 
> Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such as the unquestioned premise that "Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements".
> 
> .
Click to expand...



Competition is why we have the best universities in the world.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
Click to expand...



What part of Mexico are you from?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that, champ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen you do much better in other threads.
> 
> Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ..,"Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements"...
Click to expand...



It is and it does.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that, champ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen you do much better in other threads.
> 
> Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ..,"Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is and it does.
Click to expand...


I have asked you to point out the improvement from the OP and you have not.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that, champ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen you do much better in other threads.
> 
> Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ..,"Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is and it does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have asked you to point out the improvement from the OP and you have not.
Click to expand...



You asked me to give you specific information about the UK, and I pointed out to you that I am not from there. Want to change your question?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen you do much better in other threads.
> 
> Here you are wedded to ideas that you have not fully considered and were not prepared to defend on their merits.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ..,"Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is and it does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have asked you to point out the improvement from the OP and you have not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me to give you specific information about the UK, and I pointed out to you that I am not from there. Want to change your question?
Click to expand...



The United Kingdom is pretty well wired in. IF there has been improvement from the competition from the OP, it should not be to hard to find.

Indeed, avoiding comment of topics we are not PERSONALLY involved in would eliminate the majority of this board.

You request is not nearly as reasonable as you are pretending, and seems more like a prelude to ",moving the goal posts".


BUT, in the spirit of generosity, do you have an example of competition resulting in improvement that you think shows it to be an Universal constant?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Such as?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..,"Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements"...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is and it does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have asked you to point out the improvement from the OP and you have not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me to give you specific information about the UK, and I pointed out to you that I am not from there. Want to change your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The United Kingdom is pretty well wired in. IF there has been improvement from the competition from the OP, it should not be to hard to find.
> 
> Indeed, avoiding comment of topics we are not PERSONALLY involved in would eliminate the majority of this board.
> 
> You request is not nearly as reasonable as you are pretending, and seems more like a prelude to ",moving the goal posts".
> 
> 
> BUT, in the spirit of generosity, do you have an example of competition resulting in improvement that you think shows it to be an Universal constant?
Click to expand...






As I have said, the fact that American universities are by far the best in the world is the best example.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..,"Competition" is nearly an end in of itself and that it always leads to "improvements"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is and it does.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have asked you to point out the improvement from the OP and you have not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You asked me to give you specific information about the UK, and I pointed out to you that I am not from there. Want to change your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The United Kingdom is pretty well wired in. IF there has been improvement from the competition from the OP, it should not be to hard to find.
> 
> Indeed, avoiding comment of topics we are not PERSONALLY involved in would eliminate the majority of this board.
> 
> You request is not nearly as reasonable as you are pretending, and seems more like a prelude to ",moving the goal posts".
> 
> 
> BUT, in the spirit of generosity, do you have an example of competition resulting in improvement that you think shows it to be an Universal constant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I have said, the fact that American universities are by far the best in the world is the best example.
Click to expand...



I've afraid I don't know enough about the history of American Universities to judge your point.

If you want to use the competition of American Universities, to show that that competition is what made them great AND that to use that to show that competition leading to greatness is a universal constant, you are going to have to explain and expand a LOT.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........




What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
Click to expand...



If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.

With more than snarky comments.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
Click to expand...



Answer my questions and you'll have your support.


----------



## Unkotare

Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
Click to expand...


No, I won't.

My point stands. 

I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.


----------



## westwall

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.










That is true.  The UK youth has grown up with an entitlement mentality and they are paying the price for that.  The elite go to schools that demand they work hard to graduate while the peasants get to go to the schools that make them feel good and then they go on the dole or get some other job that pays moderate wages.  The wealthy though, who work their asses off.  They make good money and the disaffected youth whine about it.

Typical.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
Click to expand...



Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?


----------



## westwall

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
Click to expand...









Only because the school officials lower the standards.  When I went to school, back in the Dark Ages, the textbooks I had were outstanding.  My Los Angeles Unified School district Chemistry textbook, from 1927!, is better than any college level chem textbook available.  Far better.  And we had to KNOW that stuff to get a decent grade.  Today's youth are painfully ignorant.  As you demonstrate with every post.


----------



## westwall

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I won't.
> 
> My point stands.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
Click to expand...








Japanese kids are pressured by their culture.  They are in no way tortured.  That is simply an asinine statement.


----------



## Correll

westwall said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is true.  The UK youth has grown up with an entitlement mentality and they are paying the price for that.  The elite go to schools that demand they work hard to graduate while the peasants get to go to the schools that make them feel good and then they go on the dole or get some other job that pays moderate wages.  The wealthy though, who work their asses off.  They make good money and the disaffected youth whine about it.
> 
> Typical.
Click to expand...



Got anything to support that?


----------



## westwall

Correll said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is true.  The UK youth has grown up with an entitlement mentality and they are paying the price for that.  The elite go to schools that demand they work hard to graduate while the peasants get to go to the schools that make them feel good and then they go on the dole or get some other job that pays moderate wages.  The wealthy though, who work their asses off.  They make good money and the disaffected youth whine about it.
> 
> Typical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Got anything to support that?
Click to expand...












Loads.  Google is your friend.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
Click to expand...



YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.

Which is obvious nonsense.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
Click to expand...




Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?


----------



## Correll

westwall said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "torture"? Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children? Or are you talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I won't.
> 
> My point stands.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese kids are pressured by their culture.  They are in no way tortured.  That is simply an asinine statement.
Click to expand...




Sufficient Pressure can be considered torture.

It is asinine to pretend otherwise.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you think my perception of the pressure and workload  placed on Japanese children is incorrect, then say so and support your claim.
> 
> With more than snarky comments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
Click to expand...


Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.


It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".


----------



## Meathead

Swedish school performance hamstrung by immigration


----------



## Unkotare

Let's try this again:

Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
Click to expand...

Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Let's try this again:
> 
> Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?




No.

I have read interesting academic studies on the impact of Asian populations on academic "competition" in upper class American communities.

It did not seem like healthy or productive competition to me. 

It seemed much more like unnecessary and counterproductive pressure.


----------



## Correll

JakeStarkey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.
Click to expand...


I did.

The two false choices here, I* specifically* stated and pointed out that they were not the only two choices.

Do you really need me to suggest a third alternative that is not covered by those two false choices?

Here is the link.

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is the description.

"A *false dilemma* (also called *false dichotomy*, *false binary*, *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, or the *fallacy of the false alternative*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Answer my questions and you'll have your support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.
> 
> 
> It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
Click to expand...




Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's try this again:
> 
> Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I have read interesting academic studies on the impact of Asian populations on academic "competition" in upper class American communities.
> 
> It did not seem like healthy or productive competition to me.
> 
> It seemed much more like unnecessary and counterproductive pressure.
Click to expand...








So, you read a magazine article; never once met any of the countless millions you, in your ignorance, would generalize and condemn, and you DARE type the word "logic" on this thread? Even you should know better.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I won't.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.
> 
> 
> It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's try this again:
> 
> Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I have read interesting academic studies on the impact of Asian populations on academic "competition" in upper class American communities.
> 
> It did not seem like healthy or productive competition to me.
> 
> It seemed much more like unnecessary and counterproductive pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you read a magazine article; never once met any of the countless millions you, in your ignorance, would generalize and condemn, and you DARE type the word "logic" on this thread? Even you should know better.
Click to expand...



And as I suspected you hold to your False Dilemma. 

You are pretending to hold the position that Anecdotal Evidence trumps Academic Studies.

Why? Because it gives you a lazy out to dismiss an idea you don't like without any work on your part.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Correll said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did.
> 
> The two false choices here, I* specifically* stated and pointed out that they were not the only two choices.
> 
> Do you really need me to suggest a third alternative that is not covered by those two false choices?
> 
> Here is the link.
> 
> False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here is the description.
> 
> "A *false dilemma* (also called *false dichotomy*, *false binary*, *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, or the *fallacy of the false alternative*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."
Click to expand...

One, if there is an additional factor, you fail.  And if there are only two options, then the alternatives are complete and no limitation exists.  Can you show that the two factors are not the only ones?  If so, you have a point.


----------



## Correll

JakeStarkey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did.
> 
> The two false choices here, I* specifically* stated and pointed out that they were not the only two choices.
> 
> Do you really need me to suggest a third alternative that is not covered by those two false choices?
> 
> Here is the link.
> 
> False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here is the description.
> 
> "A *false dilemma* (also called *false dichotomy*, *false binary*, *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, or the *fallacy of the false alternative*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One, if there is an additional factor, you fail.  And if there are only two options, then the alternatives are complete and no limitation exists.  Can you show that the two factors are not the only ones?  If so, you have a point.
Click to expand...



Third alternative: Informed by academic studies and personal observations on educational responses on the issue.

I await your self serving bullshit as to why you claim this is not valid.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Correll said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did.
> 
> The two false choices here, I* specifically* stated and pointed out that they were not the only two choices.
> 
> Do you really need me to suggest a third alternative that is not covered by those two false choices?
> 
> Here is the link.
> 
> False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here is the description.
> 
> "A *false dilemma* (also called *false dichotomy*, *false binary*, *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, or the *fallacy of the false alternative*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One, if there is an additional factor, you fail.  And if there are only two options, then the alternatives are complete and no limitation exists.  Can you show that the two factors are not the only ones?  If so, you have a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Third alternative: Informed by academic studies and personal observations on educational responses on the issue.
> 
> I await your self serving bullshit as to why you claim this is not valid.
Click to expand...

No, you have to show an alternative not academic studies.  All you had to do was to say that his conclusion was not accurate, and then offer the studies, instead there was another alternative.  There was not.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Correll, please operate at your normal level of mediocrity.

You embarrassed yourself.

I won't respond again, because there is nothing you can do to explain yourself.

Out.


----------



## Correll

JakeStarkey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did.
> 
> The two false choices here, I* specifically* stated and pointed out that they were not the only two choices.
> 
> Do you really need me to suggest a third alternative that is not covered by those two false choices?
> 
> Here is the link.
> 
> False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here is the description.
> 
> "A *false dilemma* (also called *false dichotomy*, *false binary*, *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, or the *fallacy of the false alternative*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One, if there is an additional factor, you fail.  And if there are only two options, then the alternatives are complete and no limitation exists.  Can you show that the two factors are not the only ones?  If so, you have a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Third alternative: Informed by academic studies and personal observations on educational responses on the issue.
> 
> I await your self serving bullshit as to why you claim this is not valid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, you have to show an alternative not academic studies.  All you had to do was to say that his conclusion was not accurate, and then offer the studies, instead there was another alternative.  There was not.
Click to expand...


He presented two choices, A. Personal Experience, or B. "empty stereotyping".

C. Academic Studies is a Third Choice, which proves that he was employing the Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.

By your own argument, this is where you have to admit that I "have a point".

Except that you can't.


----------



## Correll

JakeStarkey said:


> Correll, please operate at your normal level of mediocrity.
> 
> You embarrassed yourself.
> 
> I won't respond again, because there is nothing you can do to explain yourself.
> 
> Out.




Then I will be happy to take the last word.

You are a lying asshole.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why won't you answer the questions? Afraid to demonstrate that you are talking out your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.
> 
> 
> It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's try this again:
> 
> Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I have read interesting academic studies on the impact of Asian populations on academic "competition" in upper class American communities.
> 
> It did not seem like healthy or productive competition to me.
> 
> It seemed much more like unnecessary and counterproductive pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you read a magazine article; never once met any of the countless millions you, in your ignorance, would generalize and condemn, and you DARE type the word "logic" on this thread? Even you should know better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And as I suspected you hold to your False Dilemma.
> 
> You are pretending to hold the position that Anecdotal Evidence trumps Academic Studies.
> 
> Why? Because it gives you a lazy out to dismiss an idea you don't like without any work on your part.
Click to expand...






Where's this magazine article you are pretending is more persuasive than reality?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did.
> 
> The two false choices here, I* specifically* stated and pointed out that they were not the only two choices.
> 
> Do you really need me to suggest a third alternative that is not covered by those two false choices?
> 
> Here is the link.
> 
> False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here is the description.
> 
> "A *false dilemma* (also called *false dichotomy*, *false binary*, *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, or the *fallacy of the false alternative*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One, if there is an additional factor, you fail.  And if there are only two options, then the alternatives are complete and no limitation exists.  Can you show that the two factors are not the only ones?  If so, you have a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Third alternative: Informed by academic studies and personal observations on educational responses on the issue.
> 
> .
Click to expand...




You have admitted that you have no personal observations, ass-talker.


----------



## Unkotare

"Academic studies" on how support and encouragement are "torture" because some lazy loser needs an excuse? Did the same issue of Cosmo at your dentist 's office have an article on how competing and succeeding are mutually exclusive with happiness?


----------



## Unkotare

It is particularly amusing that ass-talker thinks pasting a link to wiki-aretoufuckingkiddingme- pedia because he knows nothing about logic himself is somehow 'impressive.'


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOur questioning presupposes that direct observation is the only valid way to form an opinion.
> 
> Which is obvious nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.
> 
> 
> It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's try this again:
> 
> Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I have read interesting academic studies on the impact of Asian populations on academic "competition" in upper class American communities.
> 
> It did not seem like healthy or productive competition to me.
> 
> It seemed much more like unnecessary and counterproductive pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you read a magazine article; never once met any of the countless millions you, in your ignorance, would generalize and condemn, and you DARE type the word "logic" on this thread? Even you should know better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And as I suspected you hold to your False Dilemma.
> 
> You are pretending to hold the position that Anecdotal Evidence trumps Academic Studies.
> 
> Why? Because it gives you a lazy out to dismiss an idea you don't like without any work on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's this magazine article you are pretending is more persuasive than reality?
Click to expand...




Save your spin for someone that cares.

I believe it was in this book.

http://www.amazon.com/All-Joy-No-Fun-Parenthood/dp/0062072226&tag=ff0d01-20


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> "Academic studies" on how support and encouragement are "torture" because some lazy loser needs an excuse? Did the same issue of Cosmo at your dentist 's office have an article on how competing and succeeding are mutually exclusive with happiness?



Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Ridicule.

Your fail.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> It is particularly amusing that ass-talker thinks pasting a link to wiki-aretoufuckingkiddingme- pedia because he knows nothing about logic himself is somehow 'impressive.'



More Logical Fallacy of Ad Hominem Attack.

Again, your fail.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reality as opposed to empty stereotyping is hardly nonsense. So, you admit you have to answer "no" to the questions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.
> 
> 
> It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's try this again:
> 
> Have you ever set foot inside a school in Japan? Have you ever gotten to know a Japanese family? Ever seen one of these supposedly tortured children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I have read interesting academic studies on the impact of Asian populations on academic "competition" in upper class American communities.
> 
> It did not seem like healthy or productive competition to me.
> 
> It seemed much more like unnecessary and counterproductive pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you read a magazine article; never once met any of the countless millions you, in your ignorance, would generalize and condemn, and you DARE type the word "logic" on this thread? Even you should know better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And as I suspected you hold to your False Dilemma.
> 
> You are pretending to hold the position that Anecdotal Evidence trumps Academic Studies.
> 
> Why? Because it gives you a lazy out to dismiss an idea you don't like without any work on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's this magazine article you are pretending is more persuasive than reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save your spin for someone that cares.
> 
> I believe it was in this book.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/All-Joy-No-Fun-Parenthood/dp/0062072226&tag=ff0d01-20
Click to expand...



Wow. Not only is that not anything like an "academic study," but you haven't even read the book jacket. Way to go, ass-talker.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is particularly amusing that ass-talker thinks pasting a link to wiki-aretoufuckingkiddingme- pedia because he knows nothing about logic himself is somehow 'impressive.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....f Ad Hominem Attack.
> 
> ....
Click to expand...




Did you have to look that one up on 'wiki' too, professor?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.  It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Be specific.  And look up the definitions of the fallacy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did.
> 
> The two false choices here, I* specifically* stated and pointed out that they were not the only two choices.
> 
> Do you really need me to suggest a third alternative that is not covered by those two false choices?
> 
> Here is the link.
> 
> False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here is the description.
> 
> "A *false dilemma* (also called *false dichotomy*, *false binary*, *black-and-white thinking*, *bifurcation*, *denying a conjunct*, the *either–or fallacy*, *fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses*, the *fallacy of false choice*, or the *fallacy of the false alternative*) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which only limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One, if there is an additional factor, you fail.  And if there are only two options, then the alternatives are complete and no limitation exists.  Can you show that the two factors are not the only ones?  If so, you have a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Third alternative: Informed by academic studies and personal observations on educational responses on the issue.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have admitted that you have no personal observations, ass-talker.
Click to expand...



I "admitted" that I had not personal observations of Asian schools or nations.

My personal observations were in the recent past of the attempts of an "elite" school to respond to the competition of Asia and/or "Asians".

IMO, it was a complete failure.

And indeed, I believe the school in question has been backing off the extreme homework loads.

Asshole.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma.
> 
> 
> It is absurd to pretend that lack of direct personal experience equates to "empty stereotyping".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I have read interesting academic studies on the impact of Asian populations on academic "competition" in upper class American communities.
> 
> It did not seem like healthy or productive competition to me.
> 
> It seemed much more like unnecessary and counterproductive pressure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you read a magazine article; never once met any of the countless millions you, in your ignorance, would generalize and condemn, and you DARE type the word "logic" on this thread? Even you should know better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And as I suspected you hold to your False Dilemma.
> 
> You are pretending to hold the position that Anecdotal Evidence trumps Academic Studies.
> 
> Why? Because it gives you a lazy out to dismiss an idea you don't like without any work on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's this magazine article you are pretending is more persuasive than reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save your spin for someone that cares.
> 
> I believe it was in this book.
> 
> All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood: Jennifer Senior: 9780062072221: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Not only is that not anything like an "academic study," but you haven't even read the book jacket. Way to go, ass-talker.
Click to expand...


How did you reach either of those conclusions, you moron?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is particularly amusing that ass-talker thinks pasting a link to wiki-aretoufuckingkiddingme- pedia because he knows nothing about logic himself is somehow 'impressive.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....f Ad Hominem Attack.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you have to look that one up on 'wiki' too, professor?
Click to expand...



And in no way did you deal with my valid and truthful point that your previous post was nothing but a Logical Fallacy and thus a Fail on your part.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> 
> I "admitted" that I had not [sic] personal observations of Asian schools or nations.....




...or families, or individuals...


Yet you lack the character and intelligence to take the next step.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you read a magazine article; never once met any of the countless millions you, in your ignorance, would generalize and condemn, and you DARE type the word "logic" on this thread? Even you should know better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as I suspected you hold to your False Dilemma.
> 
> You are pretending to hold the position that Anecdotal Evidence trumps Academic Studies.
> 
> Why? Because it gives you a lazy out to dismiss an idea you don't like without any work on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's this magazine article you are pretending is more persuasive than reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save your spin for someone that cares.
> 
> I believe it was in this book.
> 
> All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood: Jennifer Senior: 9780062072221: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Not only is that not anything like an "academic study," but you haven't even read the book jacket. Way to go, ass-talker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did you reach either of those conclusions...
Click to expand...




I went to the extraordinary length of looking at the book desciption. It was written by a journalist, not an academic. It is about the effect of parenting on PARENTS, not children, and makes no mention of the stereotypes and generalizations you mistake for fact. Way to go, ass-talker.


----------



## Unkotare

Slack-ass loser still trying to justify his flaccid, spineless, un-American fear of competition. Pathetic.


----------



## Abishai100

*Uniform Utilitarianism*

School uniform policies encourage teamwork and less fashion peer pressure, creating 'virtual environments' macro-symbolic of the globalization melting pot.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as I suspected you hold to your False Dilemma.
> 
> You are pretending to hold the position that Anecdotal Evidence trumps Academic Studies.
> 
> Why? Because it gives you a lazy out to dismiss an idea you don't like without any work on your part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's this magazine article you are pretending is more persuasive than reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save your spin for someone that cares.
> 
> I believe it was in this book.
> 
> All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood: Jennifer Senior: 9780062072221: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Not only is that not anything like an "academic study," but you haven't even read the book jacket. Way to go, ass-talker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did you reach either of those conclusions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went to the extraordinary length of looking at the book desciption. It was written by a journalist, not an academic. It is about the effect of parenting on PARENTS, not children, and makes no mention of the stereotypes and generalizations you mistake for fact. Way to go, ass-talker.
Click to expand...



I don't know why you feel a need to be a dick about this.

Yes, the JOURNALIST wrote a book, and the main focus was on the effects on PARENTS.

The portion of the book that dealt with upper class parents dealing with new competition from high achiever Asian immigrants cited a study the looked at upper class parents in Texas.

Someone as smart as you could make the massive mental leap that as these parents feel pressure and respond by pushing their children into additional and earlier and more intensive and increasingly useless competition, that it would have an effect on the CHILDREN actually doing the work.

And yes, examples of the early and useless work was included, I did not just make that up.

ONe example that stuck with me was a mother who discovered that all the Asian Parents had enrolled their young children, I'm thinking EARLY grade school, in an enrichment program offered by a near by elite university.

It was expensive, her child was already heavily scheduled, she asked the representatives of the university if participation would be considered in admissions, years later.

She was assured that it would NOT be.

But all the Asian parents were still sending their kids...

I don't recall what her final decision was in that instance.


I've also seen the effect of schools that have tried to respond to increased level of competition with increased work loads on the children. Children literally staggering under the loads in their backpacks, constantly looking like strung out heroin junkies from overwork and lack of sleep, not having time to spend with family.

I have friends who are teachers who have dealt with parents who are upset about them NOT putting a lot of homework on their children.


Why are we importing people who will make our lives harder?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Slack-ass loser still trying to justify his flaccid, spineless, un-American fear of competition. Pathetic.




Says the Kool Aid drinker who has never questioned the talking points fed into his brain.


----------



## Correll

Abishai100 said:


> *Uniform Utilitarianism*
> 
> School uniform policies encourage teamwork and less fashion peer pressure, creating 'virtual environments' macro-symbolic of the globalization melting pot.
> 
> 
> View attachment 67673



Screw the globalization melting pot.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where's this magazine article you are pretending is more persuasive than reality?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save your spin for someone that cares.
> 
> I believe it was in this book.
> 
> All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood: Jennifer Senior: 9780062072221: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Not only is that not anything like an "academic study," but you haven't even read the book jacket. Way to go, ass-talker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How did you reach either of those conclusions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went to the extraordinary length of looking at the book desciption. It was written by a journalist, not an academic. It is about the effect of parenting on PARENTS, not children, and makes no mention of the stereotypes and generalizations you mistake for fact. Way to go, ass-talker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why you feel a need to be a dick about this.
> 
> Yes, the JOURNALIST wrote a book, and the main focus was on the effects on PARENTS.
> 
> The portion of the book that dealt with upper class parents dealing with new competition from high achiever Asian immigrants cited a study the looked at upper class parents in Texas.
> 
> Someone as smart as you could make the massive mental leap that as these parents feel pressure and respond by pushing their children into additional and earlier and more intensive and increasingly useless competition, that it would have an effect on the CHILDREN actually doing the work.
> 
> And yes, examples of the early and useless work was included, I did not just make that up.
> 
> ONe example that stuck with me was a mother who discovered that all the Asian Parents had enrolled their young children, I'm thinking EARLY grade school, in an enrichment program offered by a near by elite university.
> 
> It was expensive, her child was already heavily scheduled, she asked the representatives of the university if participation would be considered in admissions, years later.
> 
> She was assured that it would NOT be.
> 
> But all the Asian parents were still sending their kids...
> 
> I don't recall what her final decision was in that instance.
> 
> 
> I've also seen the effect of schools that have tried to respond to increased level of competition with increased work loads on the children. Children literally staggering under the loads in their backpacks, constantly looking like strung out heroin junkies from overwork and lack of sleep, not having time to spend with family.
> 
> I have friends who are teachers who have dealt with parents who are upset about them NOT putting a lot of homework on their children.
> 
> 
> Why are we importing people who will make our lives harder?
Click to expand...





The racist, xenophobic, lazy, illogical, un-American loser is really showing his true colors now.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods.
> 
> I have read ....
Click to expand...



Talking out your ass as usual.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said "I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods." That means you are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." You are just desperate to justify your lazy weakness and fear.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said "I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods." That means you are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." You are just desperate to justify your lazy weakness and fear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was responding directly to your question based on where you thought I should be operation from, and then went on to share with you where I actually was operating from.
> 
> Your cutting of half my post to focus on my honest and direct admission that I have NOT discussed east asians [sic] childhoods with east asians [sic] was dishonest and, ironically lazy, as it was far easier for you than actually addressing my point.
> 
> I expected you to demand that I produce a link to the study I had read on the subject. Which would be difficult for me as I was going from memory.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." There _is_ no "study" that can quantify some empty, pointless declaration of what constitutes a "shitty childhood" according to a lazy POS like you. I have spoken with thousands and thousands (and thousands) of people who had just the kind of childhood your lazy ass fears so much. Fine, happy, well-adjusted, successful people. I have spent decades working with young people in various Asian countries (no, they are not all the same, stupid) as well as here in the states who were and are growing up trying their best and challenging themselves instead of flattening their asses like your ilk. Again, fine, happy, well-adjusted people. Your weakness is YOURS. Don't try to justify it by claiming it as some kind of slacker ideal. America is better than that.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods.
> 
> I have read ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Talking out your ass as usual.
Click to expand...


The meme that only direct experience counts is bullshit that discounts such abilities and communication, the printed word, words themselves, logic, reason, and the very concepts of "likeness" and empathy.

It is an idea that serves only to give the thinnest excuse for the intellectually dishonest to dismiss opinions that they cannot refute and yet, are too dishonest to admit that they cannot refute them.

Ironically, when you do that, you are actually talking out your ass.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're talking out your ass - again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was dishonest of you to cut down my post to eliminate my citing of research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said "I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods." That means you are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." You are just desperate to justify your lazy weakness and fear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was responding directly to your question based on where you thought I should be operation from, and then went on to share with you where I actually was operating from.
> 
> Your cutting of half my post to focus on my honest and direct admission that I have NOT discussed east asians [sic] childhoods with east asians [sic] was dishonest and, ironically lazy, as it was far easier for you than actually addressing my point.
> 
> I expected you to demand that I produce a link to the study I had read on the subject. Which would be difficult for me as I was going from memory.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking out your ass in declaring the childhoods of billions of people as "shitty." There _is_ no "study" that can quantify some empty, pointless declaration of what constitutes a "shitty childhood" according to a lazy POS like you. I have spoken with thousands and thousands (and thousands) of people who had just the kind of childhood your lazy ass fears so much. Fine, happy, well-adjusted, successful people. I have spent decades working with young people in various Asian countries (no, they are not all the same, stupid) as well as here in the states who were and are growing up trying their best and challenging themselves instead of flattening their asses like your ilk. Again, fine, happy, well-adjusted people. Your weakness is YOURS. Don't try to justify it by claiming it as some kind of slacker ideal. America is better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...



If you talked to thousands and thousands of people, the obvious question is, how did you get to know *all those thousands* of people well enough to make such confident judgements on their mental health?


I probably know less than a dozen people well enough to be confident that I could speak to the state of their mental health.

It really, really sounds like you are talking out of your ass, again.

Or would that be "still"?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Correll, stop it.  One, personal experience limits the set for observation and conclusion.  And your comment "the printed word, words themselves, logic, reason, and the very concepts of "likeness" and empathy" are used by  the far right to let their 'feelz' substitute for empirical data, quantitative analysis, etc. that is required to supplement experience, logic, reason, in order to come to rational conclusions.


----------



## Correll

JakeStarkey said:


> Correll, stop it.  One, personal experience limits the set for observation and conclusion.  And your comment "the printed word, words themselves, logic, reason, and the very concepts of "likeness" and empathy" are used by  the far right to let their 'feelz' substitute for empirical data, quantitative analysis, etc. that is required to supplement experience, logic, reason, in order to come to rational conclusions.




Have you ever personally experienced or observed a rape Jake?

Yet, I bet that you have plenty of "conclusions" on how bad it is, and how damaging to the victim.

What about Genocide?

DOes you lack of personal first hand knowledge of Genocide prevent you for having a strong opinion on the issue?

YOur position that I can't have an opinion on something I have not personally experienced or observed is utter nonsense.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Your example is the exception that proves the rules.  We are not talking about rapes, Correll, but about academic performance.

Now Correll, we can document with empirical data and quantitative analysis genocide.  That is what we should be doing with the OP.

Stay on track.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods.
> 
> I have read ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Talking out your ass as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The meme that only direct experience counts is bullshit that discounts such abilities and communication, the printed word, words themselves, .....
Click to expand...



This is your remarkably pathetic attempt at insisting that while you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, your illogical conclusions are valid. FAIL.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ....
> 
> 
> If you talked to thousands and thousands of people, the obvious question is, how did you get to know *all those thousands* of people well enough to make such confident judgements [sic] .....





Because I spoke with them at length about, among other things, personal matters - most often about or during their formative years. 




Are you starting to see how reasoned thinking works, shitforbrains?


----------



## Correll

JakeStarkey said:


> Your example is the exception that proves the rules.  We are not talking about rapes, Correll, but about academic performance.
> 
> Now Correll, we can document with empirical data and quantitative analysis genocide.  That is what we should be doing with the OP.
> 
> Stay on track.




What makes you think that my example is the exception? Other than your self serving interest in dismissing positions rather than seriously or honestly addressing them.

Document the OP? Err, it already has been. My point has been that this is not a change for the better.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods.
> 
> I have read ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Talking out your ass as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The meme that only direct experience counts is bullshit that discounts such abilities and communication, the printed word, words themselves, .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is your remarkably pathetic attempt at insisting that while you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, your illogical conclusions are valid. FAIL.
Click to expand...



NOthing in your post supports your conclusion. 

It is nothing but a strongly worded assertion. 

My point stands.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> If you talked to thousands and thousands of people, the obvious question is, how did you get to know *all those thousands* of people well enough to make such confident judgements [sic] .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I spoke with them at length about, among other things, personal matters - most often about or during their formative years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you starting to see how reasoned thinking works, shitforbrains?
Click to expand...


1. Thousands of them? For how long, each? Your claim is not credible.

2. And considering the intellectual dishonesty and lack of objective judgement you show in your debating style, I do not trust your judgment.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods.
> 
> I have read ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Talking out your ass as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The meme that only direct experience counts is bullshit that discounts such abilities and communication, the printed word, words themselves, .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is your remarkably pathetic attempt at insisting that while you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, your illogical conclusions are valid. FAIL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NOthing in your post supports your conclusion.
> 
> It is nothing but a strongly worded assertion.
> 
> My point stands.
Click to expand...



The only point you've proven is that you are talking out your ass about things you admittedly have no idea about.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Correll said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your example is the exception that proves the rules.  We are not talking about rapes, Correll, but about academic performance.
> 
> Now Correll, we can document with empirical data and quantitative analysis genocide.  That is what we should be doing with the OP.
> 
> Stay on track.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that my example is the exception? Other than your self serving interest in dismissing positions rather than seriously or honestly addressing them.  Document the OP? Err, it already has been. My point has been that this is not a change for the better.
Click to expand...

Your exception has not proven to be the norm.  That is the fallacy of hasty generalization.  Now, Correll, you are being dishonest.  Accept the fact that you are arguing off your back foot and are in danger in slipping on your argument, Correll.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> If you talked to thousands and thousands of people, the obvious question is, how did you get to know *all those thousands* of people well enough to make such confident judgements [sic] .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I spoke with them at length about, among other things, personal matters - most often about or during their formative years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you starting to see how reasoned thinking works, shitforbrains?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. Thousands of them? For how long, each? ....
Click to expand...



Yes, for varying amounts of time; from weeks to years.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have met people from east Asia. I have not discussed with them their nation's culture of childhoods.
> 
> I have read ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talking out your ass as usual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The meme that only direct experience counts is bullshit that discounts such abilities and communication, the printed word, words themselves, .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This is your remarkably pathetic attempt at insisting that while you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, your illogical conclusions are valid. FAIL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NOthing in your post supports your conclusion.
> 
> It is nothing but a strongly worded assertion.
> 
> My point stands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only point you've proven is that you are talking out your ass about things you admittedly have no idea about.
Click to expand...



NOthing in your post supports your conclusion.

It is nothing but a strongly worded assertion.

My point stands.


----------



## Unkotare

YOU have admitted you don't know what you are talking about, fool.


----------



## Correll

JakeStarkey said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your example is the exception that proves the rules.  We are not talking about rapes, Correll, but about academic performance.
> 
> Now Correll, we can document with empirical data and quantitative analysis genocide.  That is what we should be doing with the OP.
> 
> Stay on track.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that my example is the exception? Other than your self serving interest in dismissing positions rather than seriously or honestly addressing them.  Document the OP? Err, it already has been. My point has been that this is not a change for the better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your exception has not proven to be the norm.  That is the fallacy of hasty generalization.  Now, Correll, you are being dishonest.  Accept the fact that you are arguing off your back foot and are in danger in slipping on your argument, Correll.
Click to expand...


You've done nothing to prove your claimed "norm" at all.

You admit you have opinions and conclusions about issues you have no personal experience of, but still attack me for doing the same.

YOu are obviously just looking for excuses to dismiss arguments you cannot refute logically.

DO you have an opinion on Murder? Have you ever witnessed a Murder? Or done one yourself? I won't ask if you've ever been murdered of course.

I haven't. I still have a strong belief that murders are wrong, and I am strongly against them.

Slavery. I have no personal experience with slavery. DO you?

I am strongly against it, and I assume you are too.

Lets go on.

Abuse of animals. I have no personal experience with it. Still have a strong opinion.

Have you any personal experience with it? If you don't or if you didn't would you then refuse to take sides on the issue?

What about manned space flight? What about Polygamy? What about lobotomies as a treatment for mental illness?

Your position that personal experience is required to have a position on an issue is utterly absurd.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> YOU have admitted you don't know what you are talking about, fool.



Your position that personal experience is required to have a position on an issue is utterly absurd.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU have admitted you don't know what you are talking about, fool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your position that personal experience is required to have a position on an issue is utterly absurd.
Click to expand...



Only an illogical fool like you would insist that ZERO actual experience, thoughtless stereotypes, and skimming part of a magazine article conveys more credibility than vast amounts of lived experience. Find some britches that fit.


----------



## Unkotare

You're like one of those "I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" commercials, only you really believe it.


----------



## Katzndogz

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
Click to expand...

Graduation rates mean nothing.  We have social promotion.   Who ever hangs on, graduates.  A diploma is not withheld because the student can't meet graduation requirements.


----------



## Unkotare

Tipsycatlover said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Graduation rates mean nothing.  We have social promotion.   Who ever hangs on, graduates.  A diploma is not withheld because the student can't meet graduation requirements.
Click to expand...



Wrong.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Tipsycatlover said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Graduation rates mean nothing.  We have social promotion.   Who ever hangs on, graduates.  A diploma is not withheld because the student can't meet graduation requirements.
Click to expand...


  Most of the one's around here drop out long before graduation.


----------



## OldLady

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
Click to expand...

In rural Mexico, once kids get adult bodies, they are expected to work, not play around in school.  Feeding the family is more important.  It's hard to get some Mexican families to value that upper level of high school education.  At 16, the pressure is really on.  Not for all kids, but for a lot.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

OldLady said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In rural Mexico, once kids get adult bodies, they are expected to work, not play around in school.  Feeding the family is more important.  It's hard to get some Mexican families to value that upper level of high school education.  At 16, the pressure is really on.  Not for all kids, but for a lot.
Click to expand...


  The one's who are dropping out aren't doing so to go to work.
It's usually due to criminal activity.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In rural Mexico, once kids get adult bodies, they are expected to work, not play around in school.  Feeding the family is more important.  It's hard to get some Mexican families to value that upper level of high school education.  At 16, the pressure is really on.  Not for all kids, but for a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The one's who are dropping out aren't doing so to go to work......
Click to expand...



Wrong.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In rural Mexico, once kids get adult bodies, they are expected to work, not play around in school.  Feeding the family is more important.  It's hard to get some Mexican families to value that upper level of high school education.  At 16, the pressure is really on.  Not for all kids, but for a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The one's who are dropping out aren't doing so to go to work......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
Click to expand...


   Nope...Go drive through the east side of Houston during school hours and tell me what you see.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In rural Mexico, once kids get adult bodies, they are expected to work, not play around in school.  Feeding the family is more important.  It's hard to get some Mexican families to value that upper level of high school education.  At 16, the pressure is really on.  Not for all kids, but for a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The one's who are dropping out aren't doing so to go to work......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope...Go drive through the east side of Houston ......
Click to expand...




I don't need to. I drive to work everyday.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> In rural Mexico, once kids get adult bodies, they are expected to work, not play around in school.  Feeding the family is more important.  It's hard to get some Mexican families to value that upper level of high school education.  At 16, the pressure is really on.  Not for all kids, but for a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The one's who are dropping out aren't doing so to go to work......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope...Go drive through the east side of Houston ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to. I drive to work everyday.
Click to expand...


  Whats that have to do with it?


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> In rural Mexico, once kids get adult bodies, they are expected to work, not play around in school.  Feeding the family is more important.  It's hard to get some Mexican families to value that upper level of high school education.  At 16, the pressure is really on.  Not for all kids, but for a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one's who are dropping out aren't doing so to go to work......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope...Go drive through the east side of Houston ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to. I drive to work everyday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whats that have to do with it?
Click to expand...



I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one's who are dropping out aren't doing so to go to work......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope...Go drive through the east side of Houston ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to. I drive to work everyday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whats that have to do with it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).
Click to expand...


  Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope...Go drive through the east side of Houston ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to. I drive to work everyday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whats that have to do with it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.
Click to expand...



What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope...Go drive through the east side of Houston ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to. I drive to work everyday.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whats that have to do with it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?
Click to expand...


    I always carried when going to that side of town.
 And it was pretty obvious they should have been in school.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU have admitted you don't know what you are talking about, fool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your position that personal experience is required to have a position on an issue is utterly absurd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Only an illogical fool like you would insist that ZERO actual experience, thoughtless stereotypes, and skimming part of a magazine article conveys more credibility than vast amounts of lived experience. Find some britches that fit.
Click to expand...


Nice moving of the goal posts AND strawman.

How about this, instead of spending all of your time and energy looking for justifications to avoid defending your position based on it's merits, why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to. I drive to work everyday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats that have to do with it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always carried when going to that side of town......
Click to expand...



Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats that have to do with it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always carried when going to that side of town......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.
Click to expand...


  Thats a stupid place to carry a pistol.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ........ why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?



My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats that have to do with it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always carried when going to that side of town......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.
Click to expand...


It's funny, I remember when that old man got beaten almost to death when he told the high school kids to get off his car.

All the libs were like, "it was his own fault for getting in their face when he had no street cred. He should have been more careful".

But now someone who is normally wary of street punks, and rightfully so, and he is ridiculed for being cautious around dangerous animals.


----------



## ChrisL

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........ why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.
Click to expand...


Generation gap.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........ why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.
Click to expand...



No, that was your rationalization/strawman for not making your case the increased competition in school thanks to more asians is good.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........ why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was your rationalization/strawman for not making your case the increased competition in school thanks to more asians is good.
Click to expand...




Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........ why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was your rationalization/strawman for not making your case the increased competition in school thanks to more asians is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?
Click to expand...


Yes. That is nothing but your self serving spin.

Note how you are still running aware from any discussion of your initial position.


Did you go looking data to support your  initial argument, that the UK has benefited from the increased competition  and discover that you were wrong?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.





Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........ why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was your rationalization/strawman for not making your case the increased competition in school thanks to more asians is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. That is nothing but your self serving spin.....
Click to expand...



So, you didn't say: 


Correll said:


> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....


?


Fucking liar.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I drive to work at a -very- urban school district and work with young people you look at out the windows of your car (it seems).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always carried when going to that side of town......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's funny, I remember when that old man got beaten almost to death when he told the high school kids to get off his car.
> 
> All the libs were like, "it was his own fault for getting in their face when he had no street cred. He should have been more careful".
> 
> But now someone who is normally wary of street punks, and rightfully so, and he is ridiculed for being cautious around dangerous animals.
Click to expand...



He was talking about people, not animals. Are you advocating for cowardice now?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ........ why don't you start making your case for your position based on it's merits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was your rationalization/strawman for not making your case the increased competition in school thanks to more asians is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. That is nothing but your self serving spin.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you didn't say:
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Fucking liar.
Click to expand...


Calm yourself.

My opinion is not based on "nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance."


And my point stands. You've done nothing to actually attack that point, other than supply some personal anecdotes and make a lot of crazy claims, like I can't have an opinion about something without personal experience.

And as I said, your normal hysteria and dishonesty really make it hard to consider your personal anecdotes as highly credible.


You certainly have NOT posted anything to demonstrate ANY benefit to the UK or UK citizens from this increased competition. 

Which is what would really make your case. And challenge mine.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah those kids covered in gang tatts hanging out on porches and street corners are just getting ready for work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I always carried when going to that side of town......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's funny, I remember when that old man got beaten almost to death when he told the high school kids to get off his car.
> 
> All the libs were like, "it was his own fault for getting in their face when he had no street cred. He should have been more careful".
> 
> But now someone who is normally wary of street punks, and rightfully so, and he is ridiculed for being cautious around dangerous animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He was talking about people, not animals. Are you advocating for cowardice now?
Click to expand...



"Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals.

Being careful and/or taking steps to protect one's self from dangerous animals is not cowardice.

This is one of those example of dishonesty that robs your anecdotes of credibility I spoke of earlier.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> My case is that YOU unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance is illogical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was your rationalization/strawman for not making your case the increased competition in school thanks to more asians is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. That is nothing but your self serving spin.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you didn't say:
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Fucking liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calm yourself.......
Click to expand...






Tell the truth, are the words quoted above yours or not?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kids? How old are these 'kids'? Ever spoken to one before crouching down behind your steering wheel and driving off in a sweaty panic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always carried when going to that side of town......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's funny, I remember when that old man got beaten almost to death when he told the high school kids to get off his car.
> 
> All the libs were like, "it was his own fault for getting in their face when he had no street cred. He should have been more careful".
> 
> But now someone who is normally wary of street punks, and rightfully so, and he is ridiculed for being cautious around dangerous animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He was talking about people, not animals. Are you advocating for cowardice now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals........
Click to expand...



Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, that was your rationalization/strawman for not making your case the increased competition in school thanks to more asians is good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. That is nothing but your self serving spin.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you didn't say:
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Fucking liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calm yourself.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the truth, are the words quoted above yours or not?
Click to expand...


Now you are being a dick.

I honestly and seriously addressed that in the portion of my post that you cut.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always carried when going to that side of town......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's funny, I remember when that old man got beaten almost to death when he told the high school kids to get off his car.
> 
> All the libs were like, "it was his own fault for getting in their face when he had no street cred. He should have been more careful".
> 
> But now someone who is normally wary of street punks, and rightfully so, and he is ridiculed for being cautious around dangerous animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He was talking about people, not animals. Are you advocating for cowardice now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
Click to expand...



People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.

You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior, yet you have a strong enough opinion on them to ridicule the person who did and judged them dangerous.

And you claim to be the logical one?


----------



## bodecea

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
Click to expand...

Except for the white kids in Mississippi.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. That is nothing but your self serving spin.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you didn't say:
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Fucking liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calm yourself.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the truth, are the words quoted above yours or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being a dick.
Click to expand...



"Yes" or "no" will suffice.


----------



## bodecea

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
Click to expand...

I certainly don't understand why Mexican immigrants wouldn't do well?   Their Mexican schools are just like what the RWrs want of our schools here.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you didn't carry anything between your legs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny, I remember when that old man got beaten almost to death when he told the high school kids to get off his car.
> 
> All the libs were like, "it was his own fault for getting in their face when he had no street cred. He should have been more careful".
> 
> But now someone who is normally wary of street punks, and rightfully so, and he is ridiculed for being cautious around dangerous animals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He was talking about people, not animals. Are you advocating for cowardice now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
Click to expand...



And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. That is nothing but your self serving spin.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, you didn't say:
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Fucking liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Calm yourself.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the truth, are the words quoted above yours or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being a dick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes" or "no" will suffice.
Click to expand...


As I pointed out in the portion of my post that you dishonestly cut, it is not a simple yes or no question.

YOu are still being a dick.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny, I remember when that old man got beaten almost to death when he told the high school kids to get off his car.
> 
> All the libs were like, "it was his own fault for getting in their face when he had no street cred. He should have been more careful".
> 
> But now someone who is normally wary of street punks, and rightfully so, and he is ridiculed for being cautious around dangerous animals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was talking about people, not animals. Are you advocating for cowardice now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
Click to expand...



But he could see their appearance and behavior.

As I pointed out, and you ignored. 

Is ignoring your debating opponents words a school of logic?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you didn't say:
> ?
> 
> 
> Fucking liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calm yourself.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the truth, are the words quoted above yours or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being a dick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes" or "no" will suffice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .... it is not a simple yes or no question....
Click to expand...



It is a very simple yes or no question. Why are you afraid to answer it? You are lacking in character entirely.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was talking about people, not animals. Are you advocating for cowardice now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
Click to expand...



The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Calm yourself.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the truth, are the words quoted above yours or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you are being a dick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes" or "no" will suffice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .... it is not a simple yes or no question....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a very simple yes or no question. Why are you afraid to answer it? You are lacking in character entirely.
Click to expand...


It obviously is NOT a simple yes or no question, and only a completely dishonest person would claim it was.

I'm not saying this as a personal attack, but you argue like a liberal.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
Click to expand...


Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression. 


And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.

You are a pretentious prick.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell the truth, are the words quoted above yours or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are being a dick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes" or "no" will suffice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .... it is not a simple yes or no question....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a very simple yes or no question. Why are you afraid to answer it? You are lacking in character entirely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It obviously is NOT a simple yes or no question, and only a completely dishonest person would claim it was.
> 
> I'm not saying this as a personal attack, but you argue like a liberal.
Click to expand...







Still you lack the character to answer.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
Click to expand...






Illogical buffoon.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
Click to expand...



Competition IS great. You seem to have an identity crisis. You pretend to be British and your attitude is certainly not American.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
Click to expand...



Everything is about skin color with you leftists.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .....
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college......





This is a classic example of a mindless stereotype based on nothing but pure ignorance and prejudice.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are being a dick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes" or "no" will suffice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> .... it is not a simple yes or no question....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a very simple yes or no question. Why are you afraid to answer it? You are lacking in character entirely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It obviously is NOT a simple yes or no question, and only a completely dishonest person would claim it was.
> 
> I'm not saying this as a personal attack, but you argue like a liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still you lack the character to answer.
Click to expand...


You are being dishonest.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes" or "no" will suffice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .... it is not a simple yes or no question....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a very simple yes or no question. Why are you afraid to answer it? You are lacking in character entirely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It obviously is NOT a simple yes or no question, and only a completely dishonest person would claim it was.
> 
> I'm not saying this as a personal attack, but you argue like a liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still you lack the character to answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are being dishonest.
Click to expand...




You are honestly lacking in character and the ability to reason logically.


----------



## Unkotare

Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Competition IS great. You seem to have an identity crisis. You pretend to be British and your attitude is certainly not American.
Click to expand...



Competition can be great. Or it can be harmful. Depending on how it is done and the context.

Taking steroids is competition. But it is unhealthy. For one minor example.

Your position that, as a brit, I can't have an opinion on what is going on in the UK is nonsense, as I have repeatedly explained.

AND, my attitude on competition is not conventional. That does not make it wrong.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical buffoon.
Click to expand...


And ironically, your response is nothing but an irrational logical fallacy, Appeal to Ridicule.

My point about the way the mind works if very much true. Are you actually unaware of this? I could provide an educational link.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is about skin color with you leftists.
Click to expand...



The topic being discussed is about comparing ethnic/racial groups.

That you would find my referencing race in this thread to be evidence of a moral failing on my part is *completely* irrational of you.

AND I note, you in no way answered the question.

How is it better for this country or our citizens?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a classic example of a mindless stereotype based on nothing but pure ignorance and prejudice.
Click to expand...



You keep repeating that, as though repetition is making an argument.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ....
> 
> My point about the way the mind works if very much true. ......





The point in question was not about "the way the mind works" (which you don't know much about, apparently). It was about fear, ignorance, and making assumptions. Just the sort of weak thinking that you seem to be limited to.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is about skin color with you leftists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The topic being discussed is about comparing ethnic/racial groups......
Click to expand...



YOU specifically mentioned color, you racist lefty.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?




As I am sitting at my computer by myself, pretty much everything I do here is "unilateral".

How many people do you have sitting with you?

Billions? Mm, probably more like tens of millions, I don't know how far those practices extend.

BTW, on another forum, a writing forum, I happened to be reading a story set in SOuth Korea, written BY a South Korean, with PERSONAL experience with the educational system we have been discussing.

I asked a question about it, vague, and I attempted to NOT be leading.


This is his complete response.



> Sorry my reply is late. I was on my phone and I can't reply very well with it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So yes. I did attend hag-won myself multiple times (when I was younger and actually lived in Korea from 1st-2nd grade and 10th/11th grade for studies in Korea). Usually, it involved hours of studying and doing other stuff.
> 
> Basically, think of hag-won as a prep class for school and many times, the things taught at hag-wons are actually BEYOND what the school teaches. Say an 8th grader is learning pre calculus (and yes, Koreans do learn pre-calc levels at 8th grade), then at hag-won, the same 8th grader would learn calculus and even beyond that. I went to Korea over the summer to study at hag-wons (mainly to prepare for the 4 APs I was going to take Junior year), the kids are insane over there. Kids go to school, finish school at 2, and go to hag-wons until 10 PM (Korea has a law regarding this. Hag-wons MUST close at 10 PM because the situation got so bad). I did something similar at my time there, waking up at 8, going to hag-won by 9, and staying there till 9 PM.
> 
> Yes. It's completely normal. In fact, students either study by themselves after 10:00 PM or risk illegal acts and go to secret hag-wons that are often at held secretly with the lights dimmed. Korea is just THAT competitive.
> 
> I've been raised in America for 10 years, so I'm pretty much an "American" student despite my Korean look. So when I went to Korea, I was immediately overwhelmed just how much work a typical Korean student will and can do. It makes the American education system look like a joke, in all honesty.
> 
> Thanks!





NOte how the government passed a law that hag-wons had to close at 10 pm.

Even the SOuth Korean government too steps to restrict the level of "competition".


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> My point about the way the mind works if very much true. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point in question was not about "the way the mind works" (which you don't know much about, apparently). It was about fear, ignorance, and making assumptions. Just the sort of weak thinking that you seem to be limited to.
Click to expand...



Do you imagine that your mind does not work that way?

That you are a creature of pure logic?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a classic example of a mindless stereotype based on nothing but pure ignorance and prejudice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You keep repeating that, as though repetition is making an argument.
Click to expand...




You are the one trying (and failing) to defend your ignorance.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is about skin color with you leftists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The topic being discussed is about comparing ethnic/racial groups......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOU specifically mentioned color, you racist lefty.
Click to expand...



Alpine posted a link showing a demographic change in a workforce and he made it clear he considered it  a positive change.


I asked him to explain why he thought it was a positive change.

That is obviously a valid question.



For you to play the Race Card in response to that is insane and dishonest.



I hate to do this to you, but you leave me no choice.

It is not completely appropriate because I don't think your problem is actually lack of intelligence, but ironically intellectual laziness and cowardice. But, still...


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a classic example of a mindless stereotype based on nothing but pure ignorance and prejudice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You keep repeating that, as though repetition is making an argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one trying (and failing) to defend your ignorance.
Click to expand...


I am defending the concept of communication.

When I read or hear about events far away, I am receiving communication about those events.

Most people consider that valid.


----------



## Unkotare

Competition demands constant improvement and reveals quality through outcomes rather than intentions or expectations. American universities are by far the best in the world because the university system is based on competition, in contrast to K-12 public education (perhaps inevitably, but...).


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ......
> 
> Even the SOuth Korean government too steps to restrict the level of "competition".




Have you ever been to a hagwan in Korea? Do you really know anything about it? You are defeating your own argument through ignorance.


----------



## Maggdy

Unkotare said:


> You are the one trying (and failing) to defend your ignorance.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ......
> 
> 
> 
> For you to play the Race Card in response to that is insane and dishonest....




You played the race card, not me.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Do you deny "unilaterally declaring the lives of billions of people "shitty" based on nothing but stereotypes and your own ignorance"?


.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you many people who are or have grown up in the countries you don't (or likely can't) name? You are talking out your ass based on fear, weakness, and stereotype.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> For you to play the Race Card in response to that is insane and dishonest....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the race card, not me.
Click to expand...



Please do not pretend to not know what the Race Card is.

That is an enormous pile of shit when libs do it. 

It will not be any better if you do it.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...




Any time you want to list some benefits for Americans and America, go right ahead.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lazy POS, and weaklings like you only enervate society. Americans are competitors. Always have been, always will be. Unfortunately, losers like you have always found a way to coast along on the energy, effort, and courage of others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...



Calling me names does not support your case.

Explaining how increased competition benefits Americans and America would.

That you find yourself calling me names INSTEAD of actually doing anything to support your claims, undermines your position.

Because it implies that you CAN'T.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> For you to play the Race Card in response to that is insane and dishonest....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the race card, not me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not pretend to not know what the Race Card is.....
Click to expand...



I know what it is. Hence my comment about you playing it.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ....
> 
> Explaining how increased competition benefits Americans and America would.......




How many hundreds of times do you need before it sinks in?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any time you want to list some benefits for Americans and America, go right ahead.
Click to expand...



Read the thread before wasting my time, lazy.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> For you to play the Race Card in response to that is insane and dishonest....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You played the race card, not me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Please do not pretend to not know what the Race Card is.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I know what it is. Hence my comment about you playing it.
Click to expand...


Quote me playing the Race Card. I challenge you.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> Explaining how increased competition benefits Americans and America would.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many hundreds of times do you need before it sinks in?
Click to expand...


All you have done is claim it. 

YOu have never posted a real world example to support your claims.

A couple of times, you have gone so far as to claim that competition brings out better performance.

I countered with Steroid Use as an example of competition that brings out better performance, but is still bad for the competitors.

You had no answer to that, other than Logical Fallacy of Proof by Assertion.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ....
> 
> YOu have never posted a real world example to support your claims......




Of course I have, many times.


----------



## Markle

Tommy Tainant said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
Click to expand...

As they continue to lower the standards.


----------



## Markle

Correll said:


> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.



Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.


----------



## Markle

bodecea said:


> I certainly don't understand why Mexican immigrants wouldn't do well?   Their Mexican schools are just like what the RWrs want of our schools here.



As you well know, Democrats are in charge of the vast majority of government school boards.  You know, the ones failing so miserably?


----------



## Markle

Correll said:


> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.



Interestingly enough, studies have shown that we form an opinion of someone we meet in far less time than formerly believed.  We form that opinion in less than 20 seconds and, most often, it is correct.  The studies are contained in a book by the same author that wrote "Tipping Point" and is called "Blink".  Short but very enlightening.


----------



## Unkotare

Markle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
Click to expand...




He can't, so he won't.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> YOu have never posted a real world example to support your claims......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I have, many times.
Click to expand...


Stating that "competition is good" is not an example.


----------



## Correll

Markle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
Click to expand...



My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0


"The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.

On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."



"Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."


----------



## Correll

Markle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, studies have shown that we form an opinion of someone we meet in far less time than formerly believed.  We form that opinion in less than 20 seconds and, most often, it is correct.  The studies are contained in a book by the same author that wrote "Tipping Point" and is called "Blink".  Short but very enlightening.
Click to expand...



I have read excerpts and books that have referenced those studies.

It is interesting that you have so many people who believe themselves to be so rational and objective, but have a self image BUILT on ignoring the science of how the human brain works.

Vulcans are not real.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
Click to expand...








And of course no evidence to support the above conclusions.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, studies have shown that we form an opinion of someone we meet in far less time than formerly believed.  We form that opinion in less than 20 seconds and, most often, it is correct.  The studies are contained in a book by the same author that wrote "Tipping Point" and is called "Blink".  Short but very enlightening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have read excerpts and books that have referenced those studies.
> 
> It is interesting that you have so many people who believe themselves to be so rational and objective, but have a self image BUILT on ignoring the science of how the human brain works.
> 
> Vulcans are not real.
Click to expand...




Correll said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, studies have shown that we form an opinion of someone we meet in far less time than formerly believed.  We form that opinion in less than 20 seconds and, most often, it is correct.  The studies are contained in a book by the same author that wrote "Tipping Point" and is called "Blink".  Short but very enlightening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have read excerpts and books that have referenced those studies.
> 
> .
Click to expand...





"I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who..."


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
Click to expand...




And you're a sniveling coward.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course no evidence to support the above conclusions.
Click to expand...



Suicide in South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



"In South Korea, every student is obligated to take the College Scholastic Ability Test (CSAT). Education in South Korea is extremely competitive, making it difficult to get into an esteemed university. A South Korean student’s school year lasts from March to February. The year divides into two semesters: one from March until July, and another from September to February. The average South Korean high school student also spends roughly 16 hours a day on school and school-related activities. Again, this is because of the competitiveness of acceptance into a good university. Most South Korean test scores are also graded on a curve, leading to more competition. Until 2012, students in South Korea went to school from Monday to Friday, and every odd Saturday. Before 2005, South Korean students went to school every day from Monday to Saturday.

Although South Korean education consistently ranks near the top in international academic assessments such as PISA,[32] the enormous stress and pressure[33] on its students is considered by many to constitute child abuse.[34][35] It has been blamed for high suicide rates in South Korea among those aged 10-19.[36]"


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, studies have shown that we form an opinion of someone we meet in far less time than formerly believed.  We form that opinion in less than 20 seconds and, most often, it is correct.  The studies are contained in a book by the same author that wrote "Tipping Point" and is called "Blink".  Short but very enlightening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have read excerpts and books that have referenced those studies.
> 
> It is interesting that you have so many people who believe themselves to be so rational and objective, but have a self image BUILT on ignoring the science of how the human brain works.
> 
> Vulcans are not real.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, studies have shown that we form an opinion of someone we meet in far less time than formerly believed.  We form that opinion in less than 20 seconds and, most often, it is correct.  The studies are contained in a book by the same author that wrote "Tipping Point" and is called "Blink".  Short but very enlightening.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have read excerpts and books that have referenced those studies.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who..."
Click to expand...




Your disbelief in the concept of communication is insane.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a sniveling coward.
Click to expand...



Being against negative change is not cowardice. 

YOu appear completely irrational on this subject.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
Click to expand...




Of course the ignorant big mouth who posted the false conclusions above has never spoken to a single person who 'survived' the trauma of competition and high expectations he fears so much.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a sniveling coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being against negative change is not cowardice.
> ...
> .
Click to expand...



Being afraid of hard work and competition IS.


----------



## initforme

Using test scores only to compare is a huge mistake.


----------



## Unkotare

initforme said:


> Using test scores only to compare is a huge mistake.



Granted. What other measures are you thinking of?


----------



## Markle

Correll said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
Click to expand...


Actually, the suicide rate in the US, for young adults between 18 and 24 is 12 per 100,000.

Their choice, though.


----------



## Markle

initforme said:


> Using test scores only to compare is a huge mistake.



Why?  How else?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course no evidence to support the above conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Suicide in South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> "In South Korea, every student is obligated to take the College Scholastic Ability Test (CSAT). Education in South Korea is extremely competitive, making it difficult to get into an esteemed university. A South Korean student’s school year lasts from March to February. The year divides into two semesters: one from March until July, and another from September to February. The average South Korean high school student also spends roughly 16 hours a day on school and school-related activities. Again, this is because of the competitiveness of acceptance into a good university. Most South Korean test scores are also graded on a curve, leading to more competition. Until 2012, students in South Korea went to school from Monday to Friday, and every odd Saturday. Before 2005, South Korean students went to school every day from Monday to Saturday.
> 
> Although South Korean education consistently ranks near the top in international academic assessments such as PISA,[32] the enormous stress and pressure[33] on its students is considered by many to constitute child abuse.[34][35] It has been blamed for high suicide rates in South Korea among those aged 10-19.[36]"
Click to expand...



Copying pages from wiki-fucking-pedia in no way mitigates your abiding ignorance. You have never spoken to a single soul who 'survived' the terrible 'torture'  you blather on about; happy, well-adjusted kids doing so now, and happy, successful adults who somehow made it through. "Considered by many" and "it has been blamed" in absolutely no way supports the conclusions you want so badly to suggest. Ignorant buffoon.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the ignorant big mouth who posted the false conclusions above has never spoken to a single person who 'survived' the trauma of competition and high expectations he fears so much.
Click to expand...



Thank you for your well thought out and serious reply to my linked article from the New York Times.

Which matches up perfectly with my earlier post from a South Korean who lives in South Korea and went to school in South Korea, btw.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a sniveling coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being against negative change is not cowardice.
> ...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being afraid of hard work and competition IS.
Click to expand...


No, it's not.


----------



## Correll

Markle said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, the suicide rate in the US, for young adults between 18 and 24 is 12 per 100,000.
> 
> Their choice, though.
Click to expand...


A 50% increase is a strong indicator.

My point stands. THis is not a cultural aspect that will make America or the UK better.

It will make it shittier.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course no evidence to support the above conclusions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Suicide in South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> "In South Korea, every student is obligated to take the College Scholastic Ability Test (CSAT). Education in South Korea is extremely competitive, making it difficult to get into an esteemed university. A South Korean student’s school year lasts from March to February. The year divides into two semesters: one from March until July, and another from September to February. The average South Korean high school student also spends roughly 16 hours a day on school and school-related activities. Again, this is because of the competitiveness of acceptance into a good university. Most South Korean test scores are also graded on a curve, leading to more competition. Until 2012, students in South Korea went to school from Monday to Friday, and every odd Saturday. Before 2005, South Korean students went to school every day from Monday to Saturday.
> 
> Although South Korean education consistently ranks near the top in international academic assessments such as PISA,[32] the enormous stress and pressure[33] on its students is considered by many to constitute child abuse.[34][35] It has been blamed for high suicide rates in South Korea among those aged 10-19.[36]"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Copying pages from wiki-fucking-pedia in no way mitigates your abiding ignorance. You have never spoken to a single soul who 'survived' the terrible 'torture'  you blather on about; happy, well-adjusted kids doing so now, and happy, successful adults who somehow made it through. "Considered by many" and "it has been blamed" in absolutely no way supports the conclusions you want so badly to suggest. Ignorant buffoon.
Click to expand...



Do you deny the 16 hours a day school/school related activities number?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a sniveling coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being against negative change is not cowardice.
> ...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being afraid of hard work and competition IS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it's not.
Click to expand...










It sure as hell is, coward.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the ignorant big mouth who posted the false conclusions above has never spoken to a single person who 'survived' the trauma of competition and high expectations he fears so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your well thought out and serious reply to my linked article from the New York Times.
> 
> Which matches up perfectly with my earlier post from a South Korean who lives in South Korea and went to school in South Korea, btw.
Click to expand...




Have you ever been to Korea? Ever had a discussion with a Korean person about this topic? Do you EVER have a fucking clue before shooting your mouth off?


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Children" who would beat an older man nearly to death because he told them to get off his car, imo, can reasonable be called animals........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
Click to expand...










Too bad so many are too afraid to get out of their literal and metaphorical cars and get to know people. Sometimes it's the only cure for fear and ignorance.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only a complete fool, or someone completely ignorant of the way the mind works would think that people cannot make, often fairly accurate judgments, based on first visual impression.
> 
> 
> And considering the way street crime works, such as that incident with the old man being beaten nearly to death by the mob of "children" such information is often the only information we have to make judgements and choices about our personal safety.
> 
> You are a pretentious prick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you're a sniveling coward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being against negative change is not cowardice.
> ...
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Being afraid of hard work and competition IS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it's not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sure as hell is, coward.
Click to expand...


Blah, blah, blah.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wanting Americans today to be able to have a traditional American childhood and not have to start competing for university admissions in preschool is not being lazy.
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition.
> 
> IMO, it is unhealthy.
> 
> I believe that, at MOST, you might be able to squeeze out a few points in testing.
> 
> Which could make the difference in college admissions.
> 
> But not in the real world.
> 
> I do not want America to change to be more like high pressure East Asian countries, with their shitty childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which East Asian countries are you addressing?  Also, a source and link addressing their sh**** childhoods and high rates of suicide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that it is a widespread problem.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/07/opinion/asias-college-exam-mania.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> "The university entrance examination system *across East Asia* might once have been needed to allocate scarce university slots. But even with expanded college enrollment, and more slots, the competition to get into higher-ranked universities is destroying the lives of young people and their families in countries like South Korea and Japan.
> 
> On Nov. 7, 600,000 South Korean high school seniors will take the brutal university entrance exam, which many have been preparing for since primary school. The results will shape the rest of their lives, their jobs and even their marriages. The stress is such that the suicide rate among young people up to age 24 rose to 9.4 per 100,000 in 2010, a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000."
> 
> 
> 
> "Excessive spending on education in South Korea accounts in significant part for the 45 percent poverty rate among the elderly, who cannot save for retirement because they have spent so much of their money on educating their children. And because of the economic squeeze, many South Korean families simply cannot afford more children; the birth rate is now only about 1.2 births per woman. Spending on education is also very high in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. In China, 9 of 10 middle-class children attend cram schools."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the ignorant big mouth who posted the false conclusions above has never spoken to a single person who 'survived' the trauma of competition and high expectations he fears so much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your well thought out and serious reply to my linked article from the New York Times.
> 
> Which matches up perfectly with my earlier post from a South Korean who lives in South Korea and went to school in South Korea, btw.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever been to Korea? Ever had a discussion with a Korean person about this topic? Do you EVER have a fucking clue before shooting your mouth off?
Click to expand...


In my post that you hit the reply button to, I referenced a conversation I had with a South Korean who has lived in SOuth Korea and who went to school in SOuth Korean on this subject.

That I have already brought to your attention in this thread. 

Hard work is not an end in of itself. 

Working harder than is needed is a waste of energy, resources and time.

There is no reason for US to purposefully make succeeding in school, or getting into good schools harder for American students.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
Click to expand...




.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither he nor you know (of course) that the people he drove past in fear would do such a thing. Why are you so hostile toward logic?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad so many are too afraid to get out of their literal and metaphorical cars and get to know people. Sometimes it's the only cure for fear and ignorance.
Click to expand...



Fear is the rational response to danger.

Ignoring warning signs such a style of dress and body language is not bravery, it is foolishness.

How much experience do YOU have with urban blacks?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Nothing in your post really addressed anything I said. 

An insult is not a valid debating point. Or a challenge to an explanation.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> People send messages with their style of dress and choice of tattoos, and body language.
> 
> You didn't see those people, you didn't "personally observe" their appearance and behavior,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad so many are too afraid to get out of their literal and metaphorical cars and get to know people. Sometimes it's the only cure for fear and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Fear is the rational response to danger.
> 
> Ignoring warning signs such a style of dress and body language is not bravery, it is foolishness.
> 
> How much experience do YOU have with urban .......
Click to expand...




Urban all sorts of people including African Americans? A LOT. 



Taking your ignorance as a excuse for fear is cowardice.


----------



## koshergrl

The only thing the disparity proves is that our education system sucks dick. Kind of like Taint sucks dick.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing in your post really addressed anything I said.
> 
> An insult is not a valid debating point. Or a challenge to an explanation.
Click to expand...








You have admitted many times that hard work and competition frighten and intimidate you. 

You have admitted many times that your hyperbolic exclamations were based on utter ignorance. 

All that indicates that you are weak, lazy, cowardly, stupid, and un-American.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the coward posting admitted that he did not know the people he was afraid of, and thus could not know their circumstances, motivations, or intentions. Have you ever studied logic - even briefly - in your life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he could see their appearance and behavior.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only behavior he mentioned was standing, and only an illogical buffoon like you would believe that a quick glance while driving quickly away in fear is sufficient to determine circumstances, motivations, or intentions. You are a stupid animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad so many are too afraid to get out of their literal and metaphorical cars and get to know people. Sometimes it's the only cure for fear and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Fear is the rational response to danger.
> 
> Ignoring warning signs such a style of dress and body language is not bravery, it is foolishness.
> 
> How much experience do YOU have with urban .......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urban all sorts of people including African Americans? A LOT.
> 
> 
> 
> Taking your ignorance as a excuse for fear is cowardice.
Click to expand...



Your assumption that I have no experience myself is just you being a narrowminded jerk.

And,

Really? You have experience with urban blacks and you don't find significant segments embittered, hostile and dangerous?

Or do you just accept that danger as normal?


Seely for example has shared how he was regularly beaten by blacks for being white when he was younger, once with a baseball bat, and he somehow, 

accepts that as normal and not something to consider as a problem.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing in your post really addressed anything I said.
> 
> An insult is not a valid debating point. Or a challenge to an explanation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have admitted many times that hard work and competition frighten and intimidate you.
> 
> You have admitted many times that your hyperbolic exclamations were based on utter ignorance.
> 
> All that indicates that you are weak, lazy, cowardly, stupid, and un-American.
Click to expand...




Mischaracterizations and insults do not a valid argument make.

YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America.


I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.

NOt to mention that obvious truism that working longer hours on one thing leaves fewer hours for everything else.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......




I have pointed out over and over and over again how the competitive nature of our university system has produced by far the greatest universities in the world, to which the best and the brightest from around the world flock every year. You keep ignoring this fact because your motivation is to defend your lazy weakness.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....




I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .......
> 
> NOt to mention that obvious truism that working longer hours on one thing leaves fewer hours for everything else.






Oh yeah, that Pokemon Go isn't going to play itself! Lazy piece of shit.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing in your post really addressed anything I said.
> 
> An insult is not a valid debating point. Or a challenge to an explanation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have admitted many times that hard work and competition frighten and intimidate you.
> 
> You have admitted many times that your hyperbolic exclamations were based on utter ignorance.
> 
> All that indicates that you are weak, lazy, cowardly, stupid, and un-American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mischaracterizations and insults do not a valid argument make.
> 
> YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America.
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.
> 
> NOt to mention that obvious truism that working longer hours on one thing leaves fewer hours for everything else.
Click to expand...



"....high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness."

Speaking as a lil' ol' Southern gal....

....I must report, I'm pretty happy.

Or....pretty and happy.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have pointed out over and over and over again how the competitive nature of our university system has produced by far the greatest universities in the world, to which the best and the brightest from around the world flock every year. You keep ignoring this fact because your motivation is to defend your lazy weakness.
Click to expand...


The topic is INCREASED competition, caused by asian immigrants.

And you have demonstrated no benefit from that.

The vast majority of your posts have been unsupported general positive sounding assertions about competition. 

The rest has been unsupported assumptions and insults about me.

You've done NOTHING to actually defend your position on it's merits.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
Click to expand...



And now we go back to your bizarre belief system that only direct experience counts.

Spoken word, books, scientific studies, all false data as far as you are concerned.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......
> 
> NOt to mention that obvious truism that working longer hours on one thing leaves fewer hours for everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, that Pokemon Go isn't going to play itself! Lazy piece of shit.
Click to expand...



Play is valuable. For Children AND adults.

If someone is asking you to work 60 or 80 hours a week in order to "get ahead" that person is a sadistic asshole.

Fuck them.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have pointed out over and over and over again how the competitive nature of our university system has produced by far the greatest universities in the world, to which the best and the brightest from around the world flock every year. You keep ignoring this fact because your motivation is to defend your lazy weakness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The topic is INCREASED competition, caused by asian immigrants.
> 
> And you have demonstrated no benefit from that.
> 
> The vast majority of your posts have been unsupported general positive sounding assertions about competition.
> 
> The rest has been unsupported assumptions and insults about me.
> 
> You've done NOTHING to actually defend your position on it's merits.
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......
> 
> NOt to mention that obvious truism that working longer hours on one thing leaves fewer hours for everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, that Pokemon Go isn't going to play itself! Lazy piece of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Play is valuable. For Children AND adults.
> 
> If someone is asking you to work 60 or 80 hours a week in order to "get ahead" that person is a sadistic asshole.
> 
> Fuck them.
Click to expand...



The whiny motto of a lazy, good-for-nothing, slackass piece of shit. ^^^^


----------



## Unkotare

Foreign invasion: imports, transplants change auto industry forever

"Imported automobiles and those built by foreign manufacturers in the U.S. (commonly known as transplants) have had a tremendous impact on the domestic industry. By spurring further competition for the U.S. Big Three and raising quality standards, imports and transplants changed the U.S. industry forever."


----------



## Unkotare

"While striving to win, children learn about teamwork, leadership and sportsmanship, all of which can contribute to their development as solid citizens."


Sports Teach Kids Valuable Lessons - NYTimes.com


----------



## Unkotare

Clusters and the New Economics of Competition


"Today’s economic map of the world is dominated by what I call _clusters:_ critical masses—in one place—of unusual competitive success in particular fields. Clusters are a striking feature of virtually every national, regional, state, and even metropolitan economy, especially in more economically advanced nations. Silicon Valley and Hollywood may be the world’s best-known clusters. Clusters are not unique, however; they are highly typical—and therein lies a paradox: the enduring competitive advantages in a global economy lie increasingly in local things—knowledge, relationships, motivation—that distant rivals cannot match."


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have pointed out over and over and over again how the competitive nature of our university system has produced by far the greatest universities in the world, to which the best and the brightest from around the world flock every year. You keep ignoring this fact because your motivation is to defend your lazy weakness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The topic is INCREASED competition, caused by asian immigrants.
> 
> And you have demonstrated no benefit from that.
> 
> The vast majority of your posts have been unsupported general positive sounding assertions about competition.
> 
> The rest has been unsupported assumptions and insults about me.
> 
> You've done NOTHING to actually defend your position on it's merits.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



From my first post in this thread, post #42 

"Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.

Tell me how that benefits you brits?"


Also, right above your post in this small portion of the thread.

"YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......"


You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.


----------



## Unkotare

"A nation’s competitiveness depends on the capacity of its industry to innovate and upgrade. Companies gain advantage against the world’s best competitors because of pressure and challenge. They benefit from having strong domestic rivals, aggressive home-based suppliers, and demanding local customers."


The Competitive Advantage of Nations


----------



## Unkotare

"The landing sent a message that America could compete in and win the cold war. The nation had been startled and terrified by the Russian success in putting the first satellite, Sputnik, into space. Suddenly, there was a fear that America might never catch up. But, in eight short years, the Apollo programme dragged the country ahead."


Man on the moon: moment of greatness that defined the American century


----------



## Unkotare

Students


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......
> 
> NOt to mention that obvious truism that working longer hours on one thing leaves fewer hours for everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, that Pokemon Go isn't going to play itself! Lazy piece of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Play is valuable. For Children AND adults.
> 
> If someone is asking you to work 60 or 80 hours a week in order to "get ahead" that person is a sadistic asshole.
> 
> Fuck them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The whiny motto of a lazy, good-for-nothing, slackass piece of shit. ^^^^
Click to expand...



So, you are against play for children? They should be working hard to compete?


You are against play for adults? They should be working to succeed?


And that sounds like the life you want for yourself and for the rest of your fellow citizens?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Foreign invasion: imports, transplants change auto industry forever
> 
> "Imported automobiles and those built by foreign manufacturers in the U.S. (commonly known as transplants) have had a tremendous impact on the domestic industry. By spurring further competition for the U.S. Big Three and raising quality standards, imports and transplants changed the U.S. industry forever."




So, what was the benefits to Americans?

Do we have more manufacturing jobs now than before the "invasion"?

Has our Balance of Trade improved?


----------



## Unkotare

Does Competition Improve Performance?  | myHeritage


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have pointed out over and over and over again how the competitive nature of our university system has produced by far the greatest universities in the world, to which the best and the brightest from around the world flock every year. You keep ignoring this fact because your motivation is to defend your lazy weakness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The topic is INCREASED competition, caused by asian immigrants.
> 
> And you have demonstrated no benefit from that.
> 
> The vast majority of your posts have been unsupported general positive sounding assertions about competition.
> 
> The rest has been unsupported assumptions and insults about me.
> 
> You've done NOTHING to actually defend your position on it's merits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> From my first post in this thread, post #42
> 
> "Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?"
> 
> 
> Also, right above your post in this small portion of the thread.
> 
> "YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......"
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.
Click to expand...

You seem to be arguing in favour of less skilled Doctors operating on you. I want the best, Dont care where they come from.


----------



## Unkotare

Competition Improves Performance | Heartlander Magazine


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> "While striving to win, children learn about teamwork, leadership and sportsmanship, all of which can contribute to their development as solid citizens."
> 
> 
> Sports Teach Kids Valuable Lessons - NYTimes.com




And Little League has been doing that since 1939. 

Please explain why we need to increase competition in order to teach those same lessons that it has been teaching for almost one hundred years.


If some asshole starts forcing the children to practice 2 hours a day so they can win more, is that they type of thing we want to SPREAD or to shut down?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Clusters and the New Economics of Competition
> 
> 
> "Today’s economic map of the world is dominated by what I call _clusters:_ critical masses—in one place—of unusual competitive success in particular fields. Clusters are a striking feature of virtually every national, regional, state, and even metropolitan economy, especially in more economically advanced nations. Silicon Valley and Hollywood may be the world’s best-known clusters. Clusters are not unique, however; they are highly typical—and therein lies a paradox: the enduring competitive advantages in a global economy lie increasingly in local things—knowledge, relationships, motivation—that distant rivals cannot match."




Nothing in there supports your case for stupidly hard work as the ideal form of competition.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ......
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.






You are weak and lazy. You wouldn't last five minutes in a state of nature.


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have pointed out over and over and over again how the competitive nature of our university system has produced by far the greatest universities in the world, to which the best and the brightest from around the world flock every year. You keep ignoring this fact because your motivation is to defend your lazy weakness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The topic is INCREASED competition, caused by asian immigrants.
> 
> And you have demonstrated no benefit from that.
> 
> The vast majority of your posts have been unsupported general positive sounding assertions about competition.
> 
> The rest has been unsupported assumptions and insults about me.
> 
> You've done NOTHING to actually defend your position on it's merits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> From my first post in this thread, post #42
> 
> "Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?"
> 
> 
> Also, right above your post in this small portion of the thread.
> 
> "YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......"
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be arguing in favour of less skilled Doctors operating on you. I want the best, Dont care where they come from.
Click to expand...



NOpe. I'm arguing that native born brits have all the human potential they need and that bringing in competition to reduce opportunity for native born brits is NOT to the benefit of Brits, either the UK citizens who don't get to be doctors, nor to the patients who have a doctor who scored slightly higher on his SAT scores.

It is a simple and clear point. 

I wish there was a chance that you would seriously and honestly reply to it, but I know that there is not.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .....
> 
> 
> So, you are against play for children? They should be working hard to compete?.....




Competition is part of play for children. They figure this out all by themselves unless lazy douchebags like you impose your 'a trophy for everyone' bloodless mediocrity on them.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are weak and lazy. You wouldn't last five minutes in a state of nature.
Click to expand...



YOu are the one here that is refusing to engage in a competitive debate on the issue, instead relaying mostly on unsupported assertions and personal attacks.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> [.....
> 
> 
> You are against play for adults? They should be working to succeed?....


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> So, you are against play for children? They should be working hard to compete?.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Competition is part of play for children. They figure this out all by themselves unless lazy douchebags like you impose your 'a trophy for everyone' bloodless mediocrity on them.
Click to expand...



I agree, competition is PART of play for children.

I have a old friend i saw recently.

She was telling me about how her daughter was involved in competitive gymnastics.

She enjoyed it. SHe worked hard. Lots of practice during school years, expensive camp during the summer.

The she started getting joint issues.

My friend had to pull her from the sport because she was hurting herself in her attempt to compete.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> [.....
> 
> 
> You are against play for adults? They should be working to succeed?....
Click to expand...




So, you do think that adults should be all work and no play.

Screw that shit. 

I went camping over the weekend. It was fun. I saw old friends. We sat around and played card games and drank wine.

It was fun.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have pointed out over and over and over again how the competitive nature of our university system has produced by far the greatest universities in the world, to which the best and the brightest from around the world flock every year. You keep ignoring this fact because your motivation is to defend your lazy weakness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The topic is INCREASED competition, caused by asian immigrants.
> 
> And you have demonstrated no benefit from that.
> 
> The vast majority of your posts have been unsupported general positive sounding assertions about competition.
> 
> The rest has been unsupported assumptions and insults about me.
> 
> You've done NOTHING to actually defend your position on it's merits.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> From my first post in this thread, post #42
> 
> "Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?"
> 
> 
> Also, right above your post in this small portion of the thread.
> 
> "YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......"
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be arguing in favour of less skilled Doctors operating on you. I want the best, Dont care where they come from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NOpe. I'm arguing that native born brits have all the human potential they need and that bringing in competition to reduce opportunity for native born brits is NOT to the benefit of Brits, either the UK citizens who don't get to be doctors, nor to the patients who have a doctor who scored slightly higher on his SAT scores.
> 
> It is a simple and clear point.
> 
> I wish there was a chance that you would seriously and honestly reply to it, but I know that there is not.
Click to expand...

The evidence does not support that.
Having come across you before I suspect that your concerns over childrens welfare are secondary to your bigoted hatred of immigrants. 
Just saying.


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> The topic is INCREASED competition, caused by asian immigrants.
> 
> And you have demonstrated no benefit from that.
> 
> The vast majority of your posts have been unsupported general positive sounding assertions about competition.
> 
> The rest has been unsupported assumptions and insults about me.
> 
> You've done NOTHING to actually defend your position on it's merits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> From my first post in this thread, post #42
> 
> "Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?"
> 
> 
> Also, right above your post in this small portion of the thread.
> 
> "YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......"
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be arguing in favour of less skilled Doctors operating on you. I want the best, Dont care where they come from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NOpe. I'm arguing that native born brits have all the human potential they need and that bringing in competition to reduce opportunity for native born brits is NOT to the benefit of Brits, either the UK citizens who don't get to be doctors, nor to the patients who have a doctor who scored slightly higher on his SAT scores.
> 
> It is a simple and clear point.
> 
> I wish there was a chance that you would seriously and honestly reply to it, but I know that there is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The evidence does not support that.
> Having come across you before I suspect that your concerns over childrens welfare are secondary to your bigoted hatred of immigrants.
> Just saying.
Click to expand...



What evidence?

Oh, and


----------



## Tommy Tainant

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From my first post in this thread, post #42
> 
> "Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?"
> 
> 
> Also, right above your post in this small portion of the thread.
> 
> "YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......"
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be arguing in favour of less skilled Doctors operating on you. I want the best, Dont care where they come from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NOpe. I'm arguing that native born brits have all the human potential they need and that bringing in competition to reduce opportunity for native born brits is NOT to the benefit of Brits, either the UK citizens who don't get to be doctors, nor to the patients who have a doctor who scored slightly higher on his SAT scores.
> 
> It is a simple and clear point.
> 
> I wish there was a chance that you would seriously and honestly reply to it, but I know that there is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The evidence does not support that.
> Having come across you before I suspect that your concerns over childrens welfare are secondary to your bigoted hatred of immigrants.
> Just saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence?
> 
> Oh, and
Click to expand...

10%  of all British healthcare professionals are immigrants.
There are reasons for that but essentially we dont produce enough people with the ability or desire to do these jobs.


----------



## Correll

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> From my first post in this thread, post #42
> 
> "Great. More competition for college and higher end careers.
> 
> Tell me how that benefits you brits?"
> 
> 
> Also, right above your post in this small portion of the thread.
> 
> "YOu have failed to demonstrate that increased competition has any benefit to either the UK as in the OP, or America......"
> 
> 
> You are the one that keeps pretending the choice is between NO COMPETITION and COMPETITION TO THE MAX.
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be arguing in favour of less skilled Doctors operating on you. I want the best, Dont care where they come from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NOpe. I'm arguing that native born brits have all the human potential they need and that bringing in competition to reduce opportunity for native born brits is NOT to the benefit of Brits, either the UK citizens who don't get to be doctors, nor to the patients who have a doctor who scored slightly higher on his SAT scores.
> 
> It is a simple and clear point.
> 
> I wish there was a chance that you would seriously and honestly reply to it, but I know that there is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The evidence does not support that.
> Having come across you before I suspect that your concerns over childrens welfare are secondary to your bigoted hatred of immigrants.
> Just saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence?
> 
> Oh, and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 10%  of all British healthcare professionals are immigrants.
> There are reasons for that but essentially we dont produce enough people with the ability or desire to do these jobs.
Click to expand...



I find that hard to credit.

What are those reasons you speak of?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> [.....
> 
> 
> You are against play for adults? They should be working to succeed?....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you do think that adults should be all work and no play.
> 
> Screw that shit.
> 
> I went camping over the weekend. It was fun. I saw old friends. We sat around and played card games and drank wine.
> 
> It was fun.
Click to expand...






You're just the kind of flaccid loser the democrat party needs. You can go on bullshit fabricated disability, lay around your obamapartment getting drunk and high on 'medicinal' substances, and make calls on your obamaphone to your fellow lazy good-for-nothings.


----------



## DGS49

Many legal immigrants coming to America are coming from societies where regardless of how hard you work, or how talented you are, your life trajectory is pretty much fixed by your place of birth, ethnicity, religion, or some other uncontrollable factor.

When they come to America they see countless examples of people who have achieved great success even though their families had no money, held no positions, or had no political leverage.  It's like going into a candy store where all the candy on the top floor is free; all you have to do is to climb those flights of stairs to get it - and most people are just too lazy to do that.

When you tell such people that you can be a doctor, a lawyer, a business executive, a business owner, or pretty much anything you want to be, if you are just willing to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve what you want, they see that as a tremendous benefit. And it's something that Americans overlook, simply because we are too accustomed to seeing it.

And that's why there are so many first-generation Americans who are doctors and successful business owners.

But thanks to the late Ted Kennedy and his self-destructive immigration law, most current immigrants are just here to either collect government goodies, or to work at menial jobs that "Americans won't do."  We won't see many of their kids growing up to be doctors.

Pity.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now we go back to your bizarre belief system that only direct experience counts......
Click to expand...



What we're back to is YOUR obstinately ignorant belief that reading part of a newspaper article once makes you an 'expert' and that real-world, first-person experience of many years in great volume means nothing if it challenges your weak-minded stereotypes and excuses for un-American laziness.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> [.....
> 
> 
> You are against play for adults? They should be working to succeed?....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, you do think that adults should be all work and no play.
> 
> Screw that shit.
> 
> I went camping over the weekend. It was fun. I saw old friends. We sat around and played card games and drank wine.
> 
> It was fun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're just the kind of flaccid loser the democrat party needs. You can go on bullshit fabricated disability, lay around your obamapartment getting drunk and high on 'medicinal' substances, and make calls on your obamaphone to your fellow lazy good-for-nothings.
Click to expand...



Empty blather.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now we go back to your bizarre belief system that only direct experience counts......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What we're back to is YOUR obstinately ignorant belief that reading part of a newspaper article once makes you an 'expert' and that real-world, first-person experience of many years in great volume means nothing if it challenges your weak-minded stereotypes and excuses for un-American laziness.
Click to expand...





Your need to find excuses to dismiss me as a source, instead of reasonably explaining why you disagree with my reasoning or supporting your claim that increasing competition benefits the UK or the US.

Ironically, that is intellectually lazy and morally cowardly of you.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And now we go back to your bizarre belief system that only direct experience counts......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What we're back to is YOUR obstinately ignorant belief that reading part of a newspaper article once makes you an 'expert' and that real-world, first-person experience of many years in great volume means nothing if it challenges your weak-minded stereotypes and excuses for un-American laziness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your need to find excuses to dismiss me as a source, .....
Click to expand...



When have you ever established yourself as anything in any way like a source? All you have offered is ignorance, stereotyping, and your own personal weakness. Where is the 'source' in any of that?


----------



## dpr112yme

Migrant kids?  Not 'immigrant' kids?  How does a migrant, a person fleeing another country, learn to speak the new language so quickly that they can excel?


----------



## Unkotare

dpr112yme said:


> Migrant kids?  Not 'immigrant' kids?  How does a migrant, a person fleeing another country, learn to speak the new language so quickly that they can excel?




I think you're confusing "migrant" with "refugee."


----------



## dpr112yme

Unkotare said:


> dpr112yme said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant kids?  Not 'immigrant' kids?  How does a migrant, a person fleeing another country, learn to speak the new language so quickly that they can excel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're confusing "migrant" with "refugee."
Click to expand...


thanks, you're right.  
adjective
1.
migrating, especially of people; migratory.
noun
2.
a person or animal that migrates.
3.
Also called migrant worker. a person who moves from place to place to get work, especially a farm laborer who harvests crops seasonally.

So, what is the difference between migrant and immigrant then?


----------



## dpr112yme

dpr112yme said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dpr112yme said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant kids?  Not 'immigrant' kids?  How does a migrant, a person fleeing another country, learn to speak the new language so quickly that they can excel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're confusing "migrant" with "refugee."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> thanks, you're right.
> adjective
> 1.
> migrating, especially of people; migratory.
> noun
> 2.
> a person or animal that migrates.
> 3.
> Also called migrant worker. a person who moves from place to place to get work, especially a farm laborer who harvests crops seasonally.
> 
> So, what is the difference between migrant and immigrant then?
Click to expand...



Immigrate 

verb (used without object), immigrated, immigrating.
1.
to come to a country of which one is not a native, usually for permanent residence.
2.
to pass or come into a new habitat or place, as an organism.
verb (used with object), immigrated, immigrating.
3.
to introduce as settlers:
to immigrate cheap labor.
the definition of immigrate


----------



## dpr112yme

so are migrants people who migrate within the same country of birth?  And immigrants are people who come from other countries?


----------



## dpr112yme

dpr112yme said:


> so are migrants people who migrate within the same country of birth?  And immigrants are people who come from other countries?



So to use this in an example would be something like:  The internally displaced Syrians are migrating in Syria, whereas the outdisplaced Syrians would be immigrating into other Countries.


----------



## dpr112yme

dpr112yme said:


> dpr112yme said:
> 
> 
> 
> so are migrants people who migrate within the same country of birth?  And immigrants are people who come from other countries?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So to use this in an example would be something like:  The internally displaced Syrians are migrating in Syria, whereas the outdisplaced Syrians would be immigrating into other Countries.
Click to expand...


So when an immigrant becomes a citizen or not, and he/she begins moving around freely in the new land, he/she becomes a migrant?


----------



## dpr112yme

So maybe, as the Title of this Thread is, 'Migrant kids outperform local kids' might be very true.


----------



## dpr112yme

The sentence "Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News"  and 'Migrant kids outperform local kids' may not be the same.


----------



## dpr112yme

motivation might be something different than contentment.


----------



## dpr112yme

Here is a site from D.O.E. Migrant Education Program  in relations to Migrant schools.


*Program Description*
Funds support high quality education programs for migratory children and help ensure that migratory children who move among the states are not penalized in any manner by disparities among states in curriculum, graduation requirements, or state academic content and student academic achievement standards. Funds also ensure that migratory children not only are provided with appropriate education services (including supportive services) that address their special needs but also that such children receive full and appropriate opportunities to meet the same challenging state academic content and student academic achievement standards that all children are expected to meet. Federal funds are allocated by formula to SEAs, based on each state’s per pupil expenditure for education and counts of eligible migratory children, age 3 through 21, residing within the state.


----------



## dpr112yme

But regardless, the sentence, 'migrant students, more motivated to learn' could be very true also. The news article is from BBC which is out of the U.K, I believe.


----------



## dpr112yme

if the 'migrants' in the U.K. which may be more 'immigrants' than U.K Britons, are more motivated to learn, how are the Britons doing as far as keeping their seats in the schools?


----------



## dpr112yme

TENNESSEE: Public Middle School is forcing non-Muslim students to praise Islam and “Allah as the only god”   Is this web page even viable?

Stop Islamic Indoctrination in School | American Center for Law and Justice    <<< 16 Months ago


----------



## dpr112yme

A person's own blog about his life in the U.K.  GREATER MANCHESTER NATIONAL FRONT.: Time to kick Islam out of Britain


----------



## dpr112yme

dpr112yme said:


> A person's own blog about his life in the U.K.  GREATER MANCHESTER NATIONAL FRONT.: Time to kick Islam out of Britain



Maybe it would be very bad if an American went into the U.K advocating for Islamisation and personal rights and freedoms to be world wide?


----------



## dpr112yme

dpr112yme said:


> dpr112yme said:
> 
> 
> 
> A person's own blog about his life in the U.K.  GREATER MANCHESTER NATIONAL FRONT.: Time to kick Islam out of Britain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it would be very bad if an American went into the U.K advocating for Islamisation and personal rights and freedoms to be world wide?
Click to expand...


There is a lady who works at the place I go to Monday through Fridays.  She seems like a nice American lady, well at least she appears to be American, and she seems as if she would highly advocate and endorse all forms of integration in America.  But oddly, she is a cigarette smoker.


----------



## dpr112yme

RACE - The Power of an Illusion | PBS


Is the 'race' of human beings any indicator of potential dangers?  no.  race is only genetics.  violence is human choosings.  It would be wrong to say that all people of a certain race are violent.  And it would be wrong to say that all people of a certain race are peaceful.  And it would be wrong to say that all people of a certain race are promiscuous.  And it would be wrong to say that all people of a certain race is law abiding.  it would also be wrong to say all people of a certain race 'barbaric.'


----------



## dpr112yme

*ethnicity  the definition of ethnicity*

*noun, plural ethnicities.
1.
an ethnic group; a social group that shares a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like:
Representatives of several ethnicities were present.
2.
ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association:
The graph shows class enrollment by gender and ethnicity.

Origin of ethnicity   1765-1775

Examples from the Web for ethnicity
Contemporary Examples


Far more so, Arab-Islamic states rest upon principles of ethnicity and faith.

Does Anti-Zionism Equal Anti-Semitism? Steven Bayme October 21, 2012
Central questions of gender and ethnicity are handled with a delicate clarity.

The Professor's Reading List Stephen L. Carter March 2, 2009
ethnicity cannot be mentioned publicly, other than speaking of the “Tutsi genocide.”

A Nation's Hopes Imperiled Georgette Gagnon April 29, 2010

Word Origin and History for ethnicity

"ethnic character," 1953, from ethnic + -ity. Earlier it meant "paganism" (1772).

*


----------



## dpr112yme

would it be a good thing or bad thing to live in a pagan country with no Christ?


----------



## dpr112yme

de·i·ty
[ˈdēədē, ˈdāədē]
*NOUN*

a god or goddess (in a polytheistic religion):
"a deity of ancient Greece"
*synonyms:* god · goddess · divine being · supreme being · divinity ·
[more]
divine status, quality, or nature:
"a ruler driven by delusions of deity"
the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity).
a representation of a god or goddess, such as a statue or carving.

immortal · creator · demiurge · godhead

*ORIGIN*

Middle English (denoting the divine nature of God): from Old French deite, from ecclesiastical Latin deitas (translating Greek theotēs), from deus ‘god.’


----------



## dpr112yme

Godchecker.com - Your Guide To The gods

*YOUR GUIDE TO THE gODS*
*Discover almost 4,000 gods, goddesses and spirits from around the world*


----------



## dpr112yme

I'm sorry. But was the question, 'how to help the ghettos'?


----------



## dpr112yme

dpr112yme said:


> I'm sorry. But was the question, 'how to help the ghettos'?



Maybe the ghetto with Christ in it is much WAY better than the high societies with the pagan god(s) in it.

It would be much safer, in the long run, at least.  I would think.  If the people in the ghettos don't give up Christ to accept the pagan deities.


----------



## dpr112yme

One question.  Why are all the pagan deity followers the ones that seek to 'take' over places where money runs freely?


----------



## dpr112yme

And if there are those who want to 'worship' deities in their own private space and time, why are their locations of privacy being runned down by enterprises?  In other words, WHO is doing all the proliferation?


----------



## Unkotare

dpr112yme said:


> so are migrants people who migrate within the same country of birth?  And immigrants are people who come from other countries?




Think of a rectangle and a square.


----------



## MaryL

Charts. Graphs. Cherry picked facts always support whatever it tiz' you want. The thing here is I am not finding it to be a true, Tommy, your "positive" racial stereotypes are just as biased as negative ones. I see a few exceptional people that work hard because they are motivated to, period. THAT could be anybody in any culture.


----------



## mgh80

From my experience working at a school with a high amount of migrant students (from Mexico) in the past, I will say that they are MUCH more respectful and hard-working than their American peers. Since I teach English their skills tend to be lower (not always) however.

Anybody who's never taught a day in their life before and goes into teaching is MUCH better off in a class of 25 migrant students than 25 Americans...easily.


----------



## Unkotare

mgh80 said:


> From my experience working at a school with a high amount of migrant students (from Mexico) in the past, I will say that they are MUCH more respectful and hard-working than their American peers. Since I teach English their skills tend to be lower (not always) however.
> 
> Anybody who's never taught a day in their life before and goes into teaching is MUCH better off in a class of 25 migrant students than 25 Americans...easily.




Overly categorical.


----------



## mgh80

Unkotare said:


> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From my experience working at a school with a high amount of migrant students (from Mexico) in the past, I will say that they are MUCH more respectful and hard-working than their American peers. Since I teach English their skills tend to be lower (not always) however.
> 
> Anybody who's never taught a day in their life before and goes into teaching is MUCH better off in a class of 25 migrant students than 25 Americans...easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overly categorical.
Click to expand...


Of course I was making generalizations which is why I used the word "tend".


----------



## Unkotare

mgh80 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mgh80 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From my experience working at a school with a high amount of migrant students (from Mexico) in the past, I will say that they are MUCH more respectful and hard-working than their American peers. Since I teach English their skills tend to be lower (not always) however.
> 
> Anybody who's never taught a day in their life before and goes into teaching is MUCH better off in a class of 25 migrant students than 25 Americans...easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overly categorical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course I was making generalizations which is why I used the word "tend".
Click to expand...





That was not the part that was particularly categorical.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> "While striving to win, children learn about teamwork, leadership and sportsmanship, all of which can contribute to their development as solid citizens."
> 
> 
> Sports Teach Kids Valuable Lessons - NYTimes.com


.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......
> 
> NOt to mention that obvious truism that working longer hours on one thing leaves fewer hours for everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, that Pokemon Go isn't going to play itself! Lazy piece of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Play is valuable. For Children AND adults.
> 
> If someone is asking you to work 60 or 80 hours a week in order to "get ahead" that person is a sadistic asshole.
> 
> Fuck them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The whiny motto of a lazy, good-for-nothing, slackass piece of shit. ^^^^
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lazy losers like you are not what America is about.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...



I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....

...Oh, wait....I am one!


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....
> 
> ...Oh, wait....I am one!
Click to expand...



So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....
> 
> ...Oh, wait....I am one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
Click to expand...




I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.

I home school my children.

And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.


Are you aware of this?

1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.

2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.

a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn. 





3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.

4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.






5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014



6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids? 
The answer is fourfold. 


First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
.... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*


a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
Ibid.


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....
> 
> ...Oh, wait....I am one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
Click to expand...



Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....
> 
> ...Oh, wait....I am one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
Click to expand...



An example, please.


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....
> 
> ...Oh, wait....I am one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
Click to expand...


Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.

Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....
> 
> ...Oh, wait....I am one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
Click to expand...



There are no examples there, Corry.....only some 'I can dream, can't I...." wishes.

Not only is there no gain without the commensurate effort, such as in my example of the efforts of the Sunset Park Chinese folks....
1. We live in a global economy. Jobs are in competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.

2. Tariffs were, largely, the cause of the Depression

3. If we start awarding success to individuals, psychology and experience prove that they become worthless. The efforts put in are what make the rewards so meaningful.

BTW....know which group has the highest educational attainment, lowest crime rates, and highest income in the nation?
Yup....Asians.


There's no 'white privilege.'


And....beware, Corry.....your wishes come dangerously close to this: "From *each according to his ability*, to *each according to his* need (or needs)


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are no examples there, Corry.....only some 'I can dream, can't I...." wishes.
> 
> Not only is there no gain without the commensurate effort, such as in my example of the efforts of the Sunset Park Chinese folks....
> 1. We live in a global economy. Jobs are in competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. Tariffs were, largely, the cause of the Depression
> 
> 3. If we start awarding success to individuals, psychology and experience prove that they become worthless. The efforts put in are what make the rewards so meaningful.
> 
> BTW....know which group has the highest educational attainment, lowest crime rates, and highest income in the nation?
> Yup....Asians.
> 
> 
> There's no 'white privilege.'
> 
> 
> And....beware, Corry.....your wishes come dangerously close to this: "From *each according to his ability*, to *each according to his* need (or needs)
Click to expand...



1. We live in a "global economy" because of policy that makes it so. We don't have to have our workers in direct competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.

2. We were a massive exporting nation then. Today we are exactly opposite. 

3. I don't see how anything in my example was about awarding success.

3b Working 40 hours a week, if that is enough to pay the bills, is not going to make father feel less a sense of accomplishment. Will Asian culture really collapse if Dad has time to teach his son to ride a bike?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are no examples there, Corry.....only some 'I can dream, can't I...." wishes.
> 
> Not only is there no gain without the commensurate effort, such as in my example of the efforts of the Sunset Park Chinese folks....
> 1. We live in a global economy. Jobs are in competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. Tariffs were, largely, the cause of the Depression
> 
> 3. If we start awarding success to individuals, psychology and experience prove that they become worthless. The efforts put in are what make the rewards so meaningful.
> 
> BTW....know which group has the highest educational attainment, lowest crime rates, and highest income in the nation?
> Yup....Asians.
> 
> 
> There's no 'white privilege.'
> 
> 
> And....beware, Corry.....your wishes come dangerously close to this: "From *each according to his ability*, to *each according to his* need (or needs)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We live in a "global economy" because of policy that makes it so. We don't have to have our workers in direct competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. We were a massive exporting nation then. Today we are exactly opposite.
> 
> 3. I don't see how anything in my example was about awarding success.
> 
> 3b Working 40 hours a week, if that is enough to pay the bills, is not going to make father feel less a sense of accomplishment. Will Asian culture really collapse if Dad has time to teach his son to ride a bike?
Click to expand...


The accomplishments must be based on individual responsibility, not government regulations and statutes.

Are you suggesting things like minimum wage laws???

....walter e. williams:

While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are no examples there, Corry.....only some 'I can dream, can't I...." wishes.
> 
> Not only is there no gain without the commensurate effort, such as in my example of the efforts of the Sunset Park Chinese folks....
> 1. We live in a global economy. Jobs are in competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. Tariffs were, largely, the cause of the Depression
> 
> 3. If we start awarding success to individuals, psychology and experience prove that they become worthless. The efforts put in are what make the rewards so meaningful.
> 
> BTW....know which group has the highest educational attainment, lowest crime rates, and highest income in the nation?
> Yup....Asians.
> 
> 
> There's no 'white privilege.'
> 
> 
> And....beware, Corry.....your wishes come dangerously close to this: "From *each according to his ability*, to *each according to his* need (or needs)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We live in a "global economy" because of policy that makes it so. We don't have to have our workers in direct competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. We were a massive exporting nation then. Today we are exactly opposite.
> 
> 3. I don't see how anything in my example was about awarding success.
> 
> 3b Working 40 hours a week, if that is enough to pay the bills, is not going to make father feel less a sense of accomplishment. Will Asian culture really collapse if Dad has time to teach his son to ride a bike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The accomplishments must be based on individual responsibility, not government regulations and statutes.
> 
> Are you suggesting things like minimum wage laws???
> 
> ....walter e. williams:
> 
> While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
> Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.
Click to expand...



Our current crappy manufacturing sector is not a result of individual responsibility, it is a result fo bad government trade policy.


If we have trade policy to encourage US manufacturing and immigration policy to reduce labor supply, minimum wage laws will become quickly irrelevant as wages rise well beyond them.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There are no examples there, Corry.....only some 'I can dream, can't I...." wishes.
> 
> Not only is there no gain without the commensurate effort, such as in my example of the efforts of the Sunset Park Chinese folks....
> 1. We live in a global economy. Jobs are in competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. Tariffs were, largely, the cause of the Depression
> 
> 3. If we start awarding success to individuals, psychology and experience prove that they become worthless. The efforts put in are what make the rewards so meaningful.
> 
> BTW....know which group has the highest educational attainment, lowest crime rates, and highest income in the nation?
> Yup....Asians.
> 
> 
> There's no 'white privilege.'
> 
> 
> And....beware, Corry.....your wishes come dangerously close to this: "From *each according to his ability*, to *each according to his* need (or needs)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We live in a "global economy" because of policy that makes it so. We don't have to have our workers in direct competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. We were a massive exporting nation then. Today we are exactly opposite.
> 
> 3. I don't see how anything in my example was about awarding success.
> 
> 3b Working 40 hours a week, if that is enough to pay the bills, is not going to make father feel less a sense of accomplishment. Will Asian culture really collapse if Dad has time to teach his son to ride a bike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The accomplishments must be based on individual responsibility, not government regulations and statutes.
> 
> Are you suggesting things like minimum wage laws???
> 
> ....walter e. williams:
> 
> While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
> Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our current crappy manufacturing sector is not a result of individual responsibility, it is a result fo bad government trade policy.
> 
> 
> If we have trade policy to encourage US manufacturing and immigration policy to reduce labor supply, minimum wage laws will become quickly irrelevant as wages rise well beyond them.
Click to expand...



"... bad government trade policy..."

Spot on!
Somehow, Liberals, Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, etc., have put their faith in the knowledge of self-proclaimed experts, rather than the wisdom of society itself.

"Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from birth what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government to do good." 
Daniel Patrick Moynihan




"To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society. 

Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state. 

Engels argued for “scientific socialism,” a redesign of society supposedly based on the scientific method. Communist intellectuals planned to mold the New Soviet Man. Progressives yearned for a society guided by impartial agencies unconstrained by old-fashioned politics and religion. 

Herbert Croly, founder of the New Republic and a leading light of progressivism, predicted that a “better future would derive from the beneficent activities of expert social engineers who would bring to the service of social ideals all the technical resources which research could discover.”
The Real War on Science


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to South Korea...seen South Korean schools, ....even met South Korean families....and know them personalllll....
> 
> ...Oh, wait....I am one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
Click to expand...










This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what's your take on those highly competitive late night extra schooling classes? A good thing that you would love to see here, or a bad thing we don't want to import?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
Click to expand...



Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a strong.....strong.....believer in knowledge and learning.
> 
> I home school my children.
> 
> And I am certainly in favor of competition and extra schooling.
> 
> 
> Are you aware of this?
> 
> 1. " ...the Fujianese *work like dogs, as do Chinese immigrants generally.* In New York City, the Chinese are more likely than any other ethnic group to live in dual-earning households. ... women typically sewed in garment-factory sweatshops....clean hotel rooms or take care of the elderly.
> 
> 2. Men typically bus tables and wash dishes in restaurants. *Their hours are brutal:* ten hours or more a day, six and often seven days a week. They’re less likely than unskilled native-born Americans to be unemployed.
> 
> a. *If they can’t find work in New York, they “commute” elsewhere. *The Chinese restaurant labor market is an interstate business....Restaurant owners in the South and Midwest advertise in employment offices in Manhattan’s Chinatown...Local Chinese entrepreneurs run bus companies that transport waiters and chefs to weeklong gigs in Tampa or Chicago, and then back for a single night with their families in Brooklyn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Lacking English skills and fearful of deportation, *these workers often endure terrible treatment. ... But the Fujianese aren’t likely to complain. ...*.in China, they could expect an annual income of $500 to $750; the lucky ones working a factory job might make $1,500 a year. In the U.S., a busboy can earn $1,500 a month, plus room and board; a chef, maybe $2,500 a month.... with smugglers to repay and families back home in dire need, parents see no choice but to work ferocious hours.
> 
> 4. ....what happens to the famous Chinese family values? ....In fact, the Fujianese immigrants don’t have a family life, or at least not one that middle-class Americans would recognize. “I never saw my parents,” Mandy Wong told me. Wong graduated from Brooklyn Tech High School and is now a junior at Hamilton College. *Her parents “worked from 10 AM to 1 AM.” ..... *She had many chores, and by third grade, she was serving as primary caretaker for her younger brothers. She had few friends—not because she was unlikable but because friends were deemed an unnecessary waste of time..... “I was considered one of the lucky ones,” she says, “because I had grandparents to take care of me and didn’t have to spend all my time in the sweatshop.” She was referring to the *many poor Fujianese kids with nowhere to go after school but their mothers’ steaming workplaces. *.... children sometimes get enlisted as reduced-fee or even free labor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. .... in general, *the Sunset Park kids appear on track to achieve the upward mobility *that some say is no longer possible in New York’s bifurcated economy. An analysis by New York public radio station WNYC showed that *Sunset Park and Borough Park zip codes had among the largest number of acceptances at the city’s specialized, competitive high schools. .... *it’s a safe bet that, unlike their parents—not to mention their gender-studies-majoring peers—they won’t be waiting tables."
> Brooklyn's Chinese Pioneers by Kay S. Hymowitz, City Journal Spring 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 6. "So what accounts for the poverty-defying trajectory of the Fujianese kids?
> The answer is fourfold.
> 
> 
> First is a cultural trait that has become a cliché in the model-minority discussion: a zealous focus on education. .... *education for the next generation is close to a religion.*.... One recent college graduate, now a public school math teacher, told me that his mother would wake him at 5 AM to go over math problems—when he was in the first and second grade. ..
> .... *one kindergartner’s mother said, in faltering English: “My son must go Harvard.”*
> 
> 
> a. No matter how poor they are, parents find a way to get their fourth- or fifth-graders into test-prep classes. WNYC found *one Sunset Park family who put aside $5,000 for classes for their three sons out of a yearly household income of just $26,000. *
> Ibid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
Click to expand...





Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to craft policy so that upward mobility would be possible without such heavy sacrifices?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
Click to expand...



Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.

That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
Click to expand...



Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???

This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.

Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.



Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/ 
Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/ 
Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
“WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988

3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1

a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806




5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.


Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> An example, please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought.
Click to expand...





This is what it's come to. Fragile little snowflakes sticking their little noses in the air and whining about how hard work and competition are just so scary and unfair! 

Guess what, snowflake? Hard work and competition are what real Americans are all about, and what made this the greatest and strongest country on earth. Americans roll up their sleeves and get to work. Your ilk roll up your sleeves and beg for some Obama-Esque governmentdaddy to put a line in so you can lay back in helpless dependency.


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
Click to expand...



I said nothing about mandating anything.

I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it's come to. Fragile little snowflakes sticking their little noses in the air and whining about how hard work and competition are just so scary and unfair!
> 
> Guess what, snowflake? Hard work and competition are what real Americans are all about, and what made this the greatest and strongest country on earth. Americans roll up their sleeves and get to work. Your ilk roll up your sleeves and beg for some Obama-Esque governmentdaddy to put a line in so you can lay back in helpless dependency.
Click to expand...



Nothing you said dealt with the reality that under 60 or 70 hours a week is not "sloth".


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
Click to expand...


" I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."

That's the situation right now.

It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.


"Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week..."

How is it your business if an entrepreneur decides to sign on for that.
Whose business is it?


You recognize the 13th amendment, don't you?
The *Thirteenth Amendment* (*Amendment* XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. In Congress, it was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, and by the House on January 31, 1865.
Google

'Voluntary' is not covered.


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
Click to expand...


No, it is not. 

When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of flaccid fear of competition and hard work is un-American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting 10 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week is hardly fear of hard work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it's come to. Fragile little snowflakes sticking their little noses in the air and whining about how hard work and competition are just so scary and unfair!
> 
> Guess what, snowflake? Hard work and competition are what real Americans are all about, and what made this the greatest and strongest country on earth. Americans roll up their sleeves and get to work. Your ilk roll up your sleeves and beg for some Obama-Esque governmentdaddy to put a line in so you can lay back in helpless dependency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing you said dealt with the reality that under 60 or 70 hours a week is not "sloth".
Click to expand...



Who is forced to do 60-70 hours a week?

Who?


If anything made it necessary it is Obamunism.

"*Incomes Have Dropped Twice as Much During the 'Recovery' as During the Recession*
. ...the Census Bureau's Current Population Survey ....indicate that the real (inflation-adjusted) *median annual household income in America has fallen by 4.4 percent during the "recovery," after having fallen by 1.8 during the recession."*
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...-during-recovery-during-recession_750068.html


"More Businesses Shutting Down than Starting Up
'Business deaths now exceed business births for the first time' in decades.
The American economy is less entrepreneurial now than at any point in the last three decades. That's the conclusion of a new study out from the Brookings Institution, which looks at the rates of new business creation and destruction since 1978.
Not only that, but during the most recent three years of the study -- 2009, 2010 and 2011 -- businesses were collapsing faster than they were being formed, a first. Overall, new businesses creation (measured as the share of all businesses less than one year old) declined by about half from 1978 to 2011."                                                                   http://www.weeklystandard


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
Click to expand...


Absurd.
One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.


Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
Life decisions are the answer.



1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.


2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *

3. -- her salary paid for household expenses, while his paid for art -- they focused on the cutting edge of the art world, where prices were lower and investments had more room to appreciate. 



4. Their rules were simple: They had to love what they bought, be able to easily afford it, and it had to fit into their tiny, one-bedroom apartment.

5. Their cutting-edge strategy and careful choices eventually bore fruit. The Vogels amassed one of the most significant modern art collections in the U.S., a treasure trove of almost 5,000 sculptures, paintings, and prints that they later donated to 51 museums across the country, including the National Gallery of Art.

6. ...while the Vogels' "artistic eye" may have been lightning in a bottle, their choices reflect sound, classic investing principles that are relevant whether you're buying sculptures or shares of stock."
What a Pair of Unlikely Art Collectors Can Teach You About Investing - DailyFinance




7. "...the National Gallery acquired much of their collection in 1991. By then, its value was estimated to be *well into the millions.*

“*We could have easily become millionaires,”* Mr. Vogel told the Associated Press in 1992. “We could have sold things and lived in Nice and still had some left over. But we weren’t concerned about that aspect.”
Herbert Vogel, unlikely art collector and benefactor of National Gallery, dies at 89 - The Washington Post



8. "Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
Calvin Coolidge


----------



## Correll

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
Click to expand...



I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore. 

He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career. 


It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work. 

They certainly don't have money let over to invest.

They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids. 

They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is. It's a disturbing sign of the pussification of society when some slack-ass loser feels justified in defending weakness, cowardice, and sloth rather than being properly shamed by it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
Click to expand...




Pussy-nomics.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
Click to expand...






No, that's not the reason.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Under 60 or 70 hours a week is hardly the definition of sloth.
> 
> That you can seriously claim otherwise is a sign of rigid dogma, not serious thought
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pussy-nomics.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the insight.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not the reason.
Click to expand...



What is the reason then?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not the reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is the reason then?
Click to expand...



Apparently, your friend went into a field that doesn't pay enough to meet his desires (not needs) and/or doesn't have the talent to go into another field that pays more.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not the reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is the reason then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, your friend went into a field that doesn't pay enough to meet his desires (not needs) and/or doesn't have the talent to go into another field that pays more.
Click to expand...



In feel good rah rah story Politic Chick posted it was considered a middle class job.

BUt that was decades ago. 


An oversupply of labor and weak demand has driven down the wages of many fields.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whose decision is it as to how many hours one works???
> 
> This isn't France, where a maximum number of hours is mandated.
> 
> Get rid of the idea that government should mandate and regulate everyone's life.
> 
> 
> 
> Entrepreneurs of all types rate their well-being higher than any other professional group in America.  http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/the-self-employed-are-the-happiest/
> Think it’s because they’re making _*beaucoup*_  bucks? Wrong. Small business owners make 19% less than government managers. http://www.cbsalary.com/calculators/
> Comparing Federal and Private Sector Compensation http://www.aei.org/papers/economics...ring-federal-and-private-sector-compensation/
> “WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Nearly half of self-employed Americans (49%) report working more than 44 hours in a typical work week, compared to 39% of American workers overall, 38% in government and in private business, …” Self-Employed Workers Clock the Most Hours Each Week
> The average small-business owner earns $44,576 per year. http://www.cbsalary.com/national-sa...Business+Development&jn=jn037&edu=&tid=105988
> 
> 3 .So…income and happiness?  Data taken over several decades indicates that people have gotten a lot richer….but not a lot happier. In 1972, about 30% of Americans reported that they were ‘very happy.’ The average American earned about $25,000 (2004 dollars), and by 2004 the average income had increased to $38,000- a 50% increase in real income. All income groups, from rich to poor, saw substantial income increases. Yet the percentage of very happy Americans remained virtually the same, at 31%.
> http://dataarchives.ss.ucla.edu/da_catalog/da_catalog_titleRecord.php?studynumber=M195V1
> 
> a. How about lottery winners….initial happiness didn’t last! “As predicted, lottery winners were not happier than controls and took significantly less pleasure from a series of mundane events. “http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/690806
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. So….if it’s not money….what is it people desire? The answer is earned success....the ability to create value with your life, or in the lives of others. Term ‘profit’ means different things to different people.
> 
> 
> Stop imagining you know what's best for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
Click to expand...



How about they move to a smaller home....less expensive community.....buy used cars.....shop at GoodWill....clip coupons......and look at their blessings instead of whining.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not the reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is the reason then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, your friend went into a field that doesn't pay enough to meet his desires (not needs) and/or doesn't have the talent to go into another field that pays more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In feel good rah rah story Politic Chick posted it was considered a middle class job.
> 
> BUt that was decades ago.
> 
> 
> An oversupply of labor and weak demand has driven down the wages of many fields.
Click to expand...



Is there an extra category for "was" on your paycheck? How about "whine"?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not the reason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is the reason then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, your friend went into a field that doesn't pay enough to meet his desires (not needs) and/or doesn't have the talent to go into another field that pays more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In feel good rah rah story Politic Chick posted it was considered a middle class job.
> 
> BUt that was decades ago.
> 
> 
> An oversupply of labor and weak demand has driven down the wages of many fields.
Click to expand...




They live in New York City!!!!
Not a cheap place to reside!!!

They simply made the right choices to be what they saw as success.
It's all about choices, not waiting for someone else to do something for you.



How about a job at Wal-Mart????

"Wal-Mart matches employee stock purchases by 15% on the first $1,800 worth of shares bought each year.  If you work at the company and write a check to buy $1,800 worth of the stock, the company is going to give you another $270 to buy shares completely free.  That results in an automatic 15% return before you’ve collected your first dividend.  On top of that, the company matches 100% on the first 6% of salary contributed to a 401(k) plan.


.....they’d retire with nearly $4.9 million in their investment account at average long-term rates of return.  If inflation runs the same rate it did during the past century, that would be around $1.7 million in today’s dollars, which would generate $5,700 per month pre-tax without every touching the principal."
http://www.joshuakennon.com/retirem...lmart-could-retire-and-live-very-comfortably/


----------



## Unkotare

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said nothing about mandating anything.
> 
> I said I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about they move to a smaller home....less expensive community.....buy used cars.....shop at GoodWill....clip coupons......and look at their blessings instead of whining.
Click to expand...






Thank you for an AMERICAN perspective!


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> " I want policy so a father CAN provide for his family on one full time job."
> 
> That's the situation right now.
> 
> It all depends on decisions one makes as to what standard of life is required.
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about they move to a smaller home....less expensive community.....buy used cars.....shop at GoodWill....clip coupons......and look at their blessings instead of whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for an AMERICAN perspective!
Click to expand...



One of those ironies ....foreigner being more American than some native sons.


----------



## Unkotare

PoliticalChic said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is not.
> 
> When the macro-economics are shitty enough, the effects even of good decisions can be buried under the effects of the larger bad macro-economic factors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about they move to a smaller home....less expensive community.....buy used cars.....shop at GoodWill....clip coupons......and look at their blessings instead of whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for an AMERICAN perspective!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One of those ironies ....foreigner being more American than some native sons.
Click to expand...




Not at all uncommon. Some of the most AMERICAN people I know are immigrants.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd.
> One works as hard as necessary to get to where one wants to be.
> 
> 
> Government taxes and regulations are the problem....if there is one.
> Life decisions are the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Art collecting often seems like a rich man's game, open only to the rarefied few who can plunk down millions of dollars without breaking a sweat. But the recent death of Herbert Vogel, one of America's most famous art collectors, points to another art world, one in which a pair of middle-class workers, following their passion and their pocketbook, can build a world-class collection.
> 
> 
> 2. *A high school dropout, Herb worked as a postal clerk, while Dorothy worked in the Brooklyn Public Library. *
> 
> ...e
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a buddy who works in a public library. It isn't really a middle class job anymore.
> 
> He has always wanted to be a writer. Years of work paid off and he has developed a second career.
> 
> 
> It's not enough for him to quit his job. And his wife still has to work.
> 
> They certainly don't have money let over to invest.
> 
> They have been arguing about whether they can afford to have kids.
> 
> They spent years trying to get to "where they want to be" with at best mixed results. Because the environment they are working in SUCKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How about they move to a smaller home....less expensive community.....buy used cars.....shop at GoodWill....clip coupons......and look at their blessings instead of whining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for an AMERICAN perspective!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One of those ironies ....foreigner being more American than some native sons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all uncommon. Some of the most AMERICAN people I know are immigrants.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
Click to expand...



Hmmmm....but in the 1800s America was much less sophisticated socially and scientifically, and yet we often see threads posted along the lines of "You couldn't pass an elementary school test from the 1800s!" According to your theory, shouldn't we be more intelligent today?


----------



## Yarddog

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.




Whats the point of this thread? are you alluding to something?  And whats wrong with Immigrants? nothing, most people dont have a problem with legal immigrants, but lets please not confuse them with illegal immigrants who are unknown, and not checked for illnesses when coming from tropical zones.


----------



## Unkotare

Yarddog said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the point of this thread? are you alluding to something?  And whats wrong with Immigrants? nothing, most people dont have a problem with legal immigrants, but lets please not confuse them with illegal immigrants who are unknown, and not checked for illnesses when coming from tropical zones.
Click to expand...



Where do we send the loony 'anti-vax' assholes to be checked?


----------



## Unkotare

Yarddog said:


> ... most people dont have a problem with legal immigrants......




Quite a few who post here do.


----------



## Yarddog

Unkotare said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... most people dont have a problem with legal immigrants......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quite a few who post here do.
Click to expand...



I've seen a few who talk that way here, but most people I know and talk to in the real world, dont have a problem with legal immigrants. Most of us were immigrants going back not too many generations, and can respect people who do things the right way and work hard.


----------



## Yarddog

Unkotare said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the point of this thread? are you alluding to something?  And whats wrong with Immigrants? nothing, most people dont have a problem with legal immigrants, but lets please not confuse them with illegal immigrants who are unknown, and not checked for illnesses when coming from tropical zones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where do we send the loony 'anti-vax' assholes to be checked?
Click to expand...



thats an issue but so is 1,000 people a day being stopped at the border. No one can say that the ones comming through who might end up working at a restaurant near you, are being screened for any kind of disease.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which suggests that there is more work to be done and not that they are inherently of lower intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can pretty much gage the intelligence of people based on their homeland and the level of sophistication they've reached,whether it be social or scientific.
> Obviously there are exceptions but it's a good starting point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm....but in the 1800s America was much less sophisticated socially and scientifically, and yet we often see threads posted along the lines of "You couldn't pass an elementary school test from the 1800s!" According to your theory, shouldn't we be more intelligent today?
Click to expand...


   In the 1800's America was at the top of the food chain when it came to tech. There was a tech expo in Europe after the War of Independence and the Europeans were shocked at our tech advances
   And yes they were smarter back then,of course this was before decades of liberal indoctrination and they actually taught students.


----------



## Unkotare

Yarddog said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the point of this thread? are you alluding to something?  And whats wrong with Immigrants? nothing, most people dont have a problem with legal immigrants, but lets please not confuse them with illegal immigrants who are unknown, and not checked for illnesses when coming from tropical zones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where do we send the loony 'anti-vax' assholes to be checked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> thats an issue but so is 1,000 people a day being stopped at the border. No one can say that the ones comming through who might end up working at a restaurant near you, are being screened for any kind of disease.
Click to expand...


That's not the half of it. Students are all required to be up to date on their vaccinations before starting school, but it is also illegal to turn kids away and tell them to come back in 6 months when they have had their shots and a checkup by a physician. School nurses work heroically, but it's hard to keep up, and so you may end up with a recent arrival with X disease sitting next to the child of some empty-headed 'anti-vax' douche bag and boom, a vector is born. If this goes on often enough and long enough a mutation will inevitably occur and we'll have a whole new ball game.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> .....
> And yes they were smarter back then,.....




You really think so?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> And yes they were smarter back then,.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think so?
Click to expand...


   Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.

While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
  You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
   Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
You dont see this as a problem?


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> And yes they were smarter back then,.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
Click to expand...



Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> And yes they were smarter back then,.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
Click to expand...


   And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!


----------



## harmonica

fk them 
they overcrowd the classrooms and fk over the native kids


----------



## Harry Dresden

Moonglow said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let'em learn where they came from
> 
> 
> 
> Just like you did? Every one should be like you, thank goodness Albert Einstein didn't pay attention to folks like you...
Click to expand...

Einstein got his education in the land were he was from....pick someone else moon....


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> And yes they were smarter back then,.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
Click to expand...



Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?


----------



## Unkotare

harmonica said:


> fk them
> they overcrowd the classrooms and fk over the native kids




Or, fk short-sighted fools who want to have armies of uneducated restless, hopeless gangsters on the streets of every city in unprecedented numbers.


----------



## TrueTT

harmonica said:


> fk them
> they overcrowd the classrooms and fk over the native kids



Sounds like you are speaking from a present vantage point.

Pray tell, how many years have you been held back in the same grade??


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.



So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists.

Influx of Polish children into schools has 'helped improve British pupils' grades' | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Unkotare

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists......
Click to expand...




Obviously you still exist since you're still posting here.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> And yes they were smarter back then,.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
Click to expand...


Hmm, and yet I thought you were against prejudices?

Hmm, why single out Islamic extremists, but not Evangelical, or Hasidim Jews who both want to just study their Religious books, rather than function with proper education?

Evangelical Neocons are so dumb, and  brutal, they knocked out Saddam Hussein, with 100's of thousands, if not millions killed, just to help prop up ISIS, and Iran into Iraq, who would otherwise be squashed by Saddam Hussein.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Unkotare said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously you still exist since you're still posting here.
Click to expand...


You're the result of one who can't think for themselves.


----------



## TrueTT

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists.
> 
> Influx of Polish children into schools has 'helped improve British pupils' grades' | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...


I have the utmost respect for the Polish people and your history, culture, etc.

It’s a shame the Polish-American community has to suffer the likes of you as ambassadors on USMB.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

PoliticalChic said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Example ONe. Bring back manufacturing jobs that provide a good wage so that a father can provide for his family without working so much that he has no family life.
> 
> Secondary effects. With a core of better jobs, less competition for even Busing jobs improves wages and conditions for those jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no examples there, Corry.....only some 'I can dream, can't I...." wishes.
> 
> Not only is there no gain without the commensurate effort, such as in my example of the efforts of the Sunset Park Chinese folks....
> 1. We live in a global economy. Jobs are in competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. Tariffs were, largely, the cause of the Depression
> 
> 3. If we start awarding success to individuals, psychology and experience prove that they become worthless. The efforts put in are what make the rewards so meaningful.
> 
> BTW....know which group has the highest educational attainment, lowest crime rates, and highest income in the nation?
> Yup....Asians.
> 
> 
> There's no 'white privilege.'
> 
> 
> And....beware, Corry.....your wishes come dangerously close to this: "From *each according to his ability*, to *each according to his* need (or needs)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We live in a "global economy" because of policy that makes it so. We don't have to have our workers in direct competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. We were a massive exporting nation then. Today we are exactly opposite.
> 
> 3. I don't see how anything in my example was about awarding success.
> 
> 3b Working 40 hours a week, if that is enough to pay the bills, is not going to make father feel less a sense of accomplishment. Will Asian culture really collapse if Dad has time to teach his son to ride a bike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The accomplishments must be based on individual responsibility, not government regulations and statutes.
> 
> Are you suggesting things like minimum wage laws???
> 
> ....walter e. williams:
> 
> While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
> Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our current crappy manufacturing sector is not a result of individual responsibility, it is a result fo bad government trade policy.
> 
> 
> If we have trade policy to encourage US manufacturing and immigration policy to reduce labor supply, minimum wage laws will become quickly irrelevant as wages rise well beyond them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "... bad government trade policy..."
> 
> Spot on!
> Somehow, Liberals, Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, etc., have put their faith in the knowledge of self-proclaimed experts, rather than the wisdom of society itself.
> 
> "Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from birth what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government to do good."
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society.
> 
> Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state.
> 
> Engels argued for “scientific socialism,” a redesign of society supposedly based on the scientific method. Communist intellectuals planned to mold the New Soviet Man. Progressives yearned for a society guided by impartial agencies unconstrained by old-fashioned politics and religion.
> 
> Herbert Croly, founder of the New Republic and a leading light of progressivism, predicted that a “better future would derive from the beneficent activities of expert social engineers who would bring to the service of social ideals all the technical resources which research could discover.”
> The Real War on Science
Click to expand...


That's not Conservative, that's Classical Liberalism.

Real Conservatives grasp that Authoritarianism is needed, to stop Liberal / Capitalist degeneracy, like hired Illegals, hired Refugees, Outsourced jobs, Pornography, Prostitution, Illicit drugs, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Hollywood, Media, and Facebook too.

The Refugees, and Illegals (Migrants) you hate so dearly, are largely here because of the Capitalism you support.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

TrueTT said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists.
> 
> Influx of Polish children into schools has 'helped improve British pupils' grades' | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have the utmost respect for the Polish people and your history, culture, etc.
> 
> It’s a shame the Polish-American community has to suffer the likes of you as ambassadors on USMB.
Click to expand...


Hmm, and yet I win most debates here, hands down.

As for the OP, the biggest of migrant groups in the UK, are Poles, and Indians who both succeed in education, better than Brits.
I'm not surprised, doesn't mean that his Muslim fantasies are all geniuses, but he probably still thinks so.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> And yes they were smarter back then,.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
Click to expand...


  The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really think so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
Click to expand...




You’re fantasizing.


----------



## impuretrash

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
Click to expand...


Probably not. The kid from the past would have grown up respecting hard work and authority unlike the spoiled, self centered kids decadent modern western society creates. That might also explain why migrant kids are supposedly doing better in school.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on those tests shown on the internet yes.
> 
> While there is an almost unlimited supply of info on the internet,Kids today are getting dumbed down in critical thinking and history along with being indoctrinated.
> You have college students and young people violently protesting yet they cant even name the three branches of government let alone their function.
> Most cant name the Governor of their own state.
> You dont see this as a problem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
Click to expand...


   Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
   When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
   Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.


----------



## Unkotare

impuretrash said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not. The kid from the past would have grown up respecting hard work and authority unlike the spoiled, self centered kids decadent modern western society creates. That might also explain why migrant kids are supposedly doing better in school.
Click to expand...


Do _you_ respect hard work and authority?


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know who are some of the dumbest SOBs in the world? Islamic terrorists. Do you know what 'education' consists of for most students in most madrasa for young would-be terrorists? Memorizing the Koran. All of it. Exactly. Nothing else. When they 'graduate' they are malleable enough to kill on command, and can remember instructions. That's it. That's not intelligence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
> When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
> Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.
Click to expand...



Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that. 

Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
> When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
> Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that.
> 
> Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.
Click to expand...


  Stop being a tard. Of course people were stronger back then,manual labor was an everyday thing just to survive.


----------



## TrueTT

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> TrueTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists.
> 
> Influx of Polish children into schools has 'helped improve British pupils' grades' | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have the utmost respect for the Polish people and your history, culture, etc.
> 
> It’s a shame the Polish-American community has to suffer the likes of you as ambassadors on USMB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, and yet I win most debates here, hands down.
> 
> As for the OP, the biggest of migrant groups in the UK, are Poles, and Indians who both succeed in education, better than Brits.
> I'm not surprised, doesn't mean that his Muslim fantasies are all geniuses, but he probably still thinks so.
Click to expand...


Lol self-flagellation much??? All you do is rail against the evils of Jews and Capitalism and their undue hand in influencing American society.

Even though you stand to directly benefit in both cases.

Just because Poles and Indians outperform British students doesn’t mean that the UK should allow for unfettered migration from Poland or India. It isn’t racist, nativist, or xenophobic for the UK to wish to keep the UK preponderantly English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish and White- culturally and racially.

I say that as an Indian.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
> When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
> Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that.
> 
> Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.
Click to expand...


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
> When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
> Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that.
> 
> Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop being a tard. Of course people were stronger back then,manual labor was an everyday thing just to survive.
Click to expand...


Nope. That's part of the fantasy most people fall into.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
> When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
> Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that.
> 
> Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop being a tard. Of course people were stronger back then,manual labor was an everyday thing just to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. That's part of the fantasy most people fall into.
Click to expand...


  LOL...in my short 53 years on this planet things have become far easier as I've aged.
   I can do things today at 53 much faster than I could in my teens.


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
> When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
> Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that.
> 
> Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop being a tard. Of course people were stronger back then,manual labor was an everyday thing just to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. That's part of the fantasy most people fall into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...in my short 53 years on this planet things have become far easier as I've aged.
> I can do things today at 53 much faster than I could in my teens.
Click to expand...



Meaning?


----------



## Unkotare

People fall into fantasy and emotion, and abandon reason when they harcken back to "them days."


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

TrueTT said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TrueTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists.
> 
> Influx of Polish children into schools has 'helped improve British pupils' grades' | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have the utmost respect for the Polish people and your history, culture, etc.
> 
> It’s a shame the Polish-American community has to suffer the likes of you as ambassadors on USMB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, and yet I win most debates here, hands down.
> 
> As for the OP, the biggest of migrant groups in the UK, are Poles, and Indians who both succeed in education, better than Brits.
> I'm not surprised, doesn't mean that his Muslim fantasies are all geniuses, but he probably still thinks so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol self-flagellation much??? All you do is rail against the evils of Jews and Capitalism and their undue hand in influencing American society.
> 
> Even though you stand to directly benefit in both cases.
> 
> Just because Poles and Indians outperform British students doesn’t mean that the UK should allow for unfettered migration from Poland or India. It isn’t racist, nativist, or xenophobic for the UK to wish to keep the UK preponderantly English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish and White- culturally and racially.
> 
> I say that as an Indian.
Click to expand...


Our culture is dying, our jobs given to foreigners, because of Capitalists / Jews, why is that benefiting us, exactly?

Certainly it's poor planning, and short sighted, to say the very least.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take away the false knowledge of the internet and get back with me.
> When I was a kid you had to go to the library to research a subject,and once you learned it,it stuck.
> Kids nowadays dont have to do shit to research a subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that.
> 
> Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop being a tard. Of course people were stronger back then,manual labor was an everyday thing just to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. That's part of the fantasy most people fall into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...in my short 53 years on this planet things have become far easier as I've aged.
> I can do things today at 53 much faster than I could in my teens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning?
Click to expand...


  If I have to explain....


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you go to school in the 1800s? Don't you fucking get it? The "old days" shit is a common delusion that people always want to believe. In the 1800s, crabby old shits were pining away for the 1700s when kids REALLY worked hard and REALLY got it. Those soft kids in the 1800s had it so easy with libraries everywhere and subway systems popping up in big cities making it so quick and easy to get to those libraries for the information they could get in a few minutes. So soft and lazy. The fact of the matter is that if you reduce the "chase after the info" part, you have that much more time for the analyze and examine part. Any damn fool from the 1400s could have told you that.
> 
> Guess what? Men weren't stronger in the past either, and they didn't live longer or any other silly shit people tend to swallow uncritically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being a tard. Of course people were stronger back then,manual labor was an everyday thing just to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. That's part of the fantasy most people fall into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...in my short 53 years on this planet things have become far easier as I've aged.
> I can do things today at 53 much faster than I could in my teens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I have to explain....
Click to expand...



If you can't...


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop being a tard. Of course people were stronger back then,manual labor was an everyday thing just to survive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. That's part of the fantasy most people fall into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL...in my short 53 years on this planet things have become far easier as I've aged.
> I can do things today at 53 much faster than I could in my teens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I have to explain....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't...
Click to expand...


   I'm surprised you need clarification.


----------



## Unkotare

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> TrueTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TrueTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists.
> 
> Influx of Polish children into schools has 'helped improve British pupils' grades' | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have the utmost respect for the Polish people and your history, culture, etc.
> 
> It’s a shame the Polish-American community has to suffer the likes of you as ambassadors on USMB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, and yet I win most debates here, hands down.
> 
> As for the OP, the biggest of migrant groups in the UK, are Poles, and Indians who both succeed in education, better than Brits.
> I'm not surprised, doesn't mean that his Muslim fantasies are all geniuses, but he probably still thinks so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol self-flagellation much??? All you do is rail against the evils of Jews and Capitalism and their undue hand in influencing American society.
> 
> Even though you stand to directly benefit in both cases.
> 
> Just because Poles and Indians outperform British students doesn’t mean that the UK should allow for unfettered migration from Poland or India. It isn’t racist, nativist, or xenophobic for the UK to wish to keep the UK preponderantly English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish and White- culturally and racially.
> 
> I say that as an Indian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our culture is dying, our jobs given to foreigners, because of Capitalists / Jews, why is that benefiting us, exactly?
> 
> Certainly it's poor planning, and short sighted, to say the very least.
Click to expand...



What foreigners are taking your job shoveling shit? And haven't you been promising to leave for about 5 years now?


----------



## Unkotare

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. That's part of the fantasy most people fall into.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...in my short 53 years on this planet things have become far easier as I've aged.
> I can do things today at 53 much faster than I could in my teens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I have to explain....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm surprised you need clarification.
Click to expand...



I'm not surprised you are avoiding it.


----------



## Death Angel

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


Britain?


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

no cares about england


----------



## TrueTT

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> TrueTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TrueTT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, do Polish migrants, and yet the dumb Polak joke still exists.
> 
> Influx of Polish children into schools has 'helped improve British pupils' grades' | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have the utmost respect for the Polish people and your history, culture, etc.
> 
> It’s a shame the Polish-American community has to suffer the likes of you as ambassadors on USMB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hmm, and yet I win most debates here, hands down.
> 
> As for the OP, the biggest of migrant groups in the UK, are Poles, and Indians who both succeed in education, better than Brits.
> I'm not surprised, doesn't mean that his Muslim fantasies are all geniuses, but he probably still thinks so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol self-flagellation much??? All you do is rail against the evils of Jews and Capitalism and their undue hand in influencing American society.
> 
> Even though you stand to directly benefit in both cases.
> 
> Just because Poles and Indians outperform British students doesn’t mean that the UK should allow for unfettered migration from Poland or India. It isn’t racist, nativist, or xenophobic for the UK to wish to keep the UK preponderantly English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish and White- culturally and racially.
> 
> I say that as an Indian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Our culture is dying, our jobs given to foreigners, because of Capitalists / Jews, why is that benefiting us, exactly?
> 
> Certainly it's poor planning, and short sighted, to say the very least.
Click to expand...


There are an equal, if not greater number, of White Europeans who are responsible for such policies.


----------



## TrueTT

TroglocratsRdumb said:


> no cares about england



Oh gee, really?

Thanks for your indelible contribution to the thread, dimwit.


----------



## impuretrash

Unkotare said:


> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> And a hit out to far left field!!!!  It's going,going .....foul!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not. The kid from the past would have grown up respecting hard work and authority unlike the spoiled, self centered kids decadent modern western society creates. That might also explain why migrant kids are supposedly doing better in school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do _you_ respect hard work and authority?
Click to expand...


Of course.


----------



## Unkotare

impuretrash said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take a child of 2019 and transport him to 1800, present him with a list of 50 things to memorize under the threat of regular, vicious beatings and what will happen? Take a child of 1800 and transport him to 2019 and ask him to make original claims based on the analysis of unfamiliar text and support his position with relevant evidence and what do you think will happen?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not. The kid from the past would have grown up respecting hard work and authority unlike the spoiled, self centered kids decadent modern western society creates. That might also explain why migrant kids are supposedly doing better in school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do _you_ respect hard work and authority?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.
Click to expand...



Are you the only person who does?


----------



## impuretrash

Unkotare said:


> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> impuretrash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kid from the past will smoke todays youth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re fantasizing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably not. The kid from the past would have grown up respecting hard work and authority unlike the spoiled, self centered kids decadent modern western society creates. That might also explain why migrant kids are supposedly doing better in school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do _you_ respect hard work and authority?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you the only person who does?
Click to expand...


No?


----------



## harmonica

TrueTT said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk them
> they overcrowd the classrooms and fk over the native kids
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you are speaking from a present vantage point.
> 
> Pray tell, how many years have you been held back in the same grade??
Click to expand...

FACTS--- you post crap....I post FACTS...which you are afraid of
immigrant capital of the US-California:


> , there are just too many students in each class.


Overcrowding, Classroom Size Outrage in LAUSD Schools May Force Parents to File Complaint Against District | UTLA


> A visit to several overcrowded schools in the Los Angeles Unified School District showed Sally, 15, that conditions at public schools are far from ideal for students and teachers.


LA Youth  » Overcrowded schools stunned me
15 states with the highest share of immigrants in their population
.....and you are a real dumbass = you want to pay for these foreigners to go to American schools!!!!
very stupid


----------



## harmonica

Unkotare said:


> harmonica said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk them
> they overcrowd the classrooms and fk over the native kids
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or, fk short-sighted fools who want to have armies of uneducated restless, hopeless gangsters on the streets of every city in unprecedented numbers.
Click to expand...

....so very smart--screw over the American kids--that's one of the smartest ideas I've ever heard
..boy--you are stupid---you want to fk youself--because you have to pay for it


----------



## PoliticalChic

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no examples there, Corry.....only some 'I can dream, can't I...." wishes.
> 
> Not only is there no gain without the commensurate effort, such as in my example of the efforts of the Sunset Park Chinese folks....
> 1. We live in a global economy. Jobs are in competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. Tariffs were, largely, the cause of the Depression
> 
> 3. If we start awarding success to individuals, psychology and experience prove that they become worthless. The efforts put in are what make the rewards so meaningful.
> 
> BTW....know which group has the highest educational attainment, lowest crime rates, and highest income in the nation?
> Yup....Asians.
> 
> 
> There's no 'white privilege.'
> 
> 
> And....beware, Corry.....your wishes come dangerously close to this: "From *each according to his ability*, to *each according to his* need (or needs)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We live in a "global economy" because of policy that makes it so. We don't have to have our workers in direct competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. We were a massive exporting nation then. Today we are exactly opposite.
> 
> 3. I don't see how anything in my example was about awarding success.
> 
> 3b Working 40 hours a week, if that is enough to pay the bills, is not going to make father feel less a sense of accomplishment. Will Asian culture really collapse if Dad has time to teach his son to ride a bike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The accomplishments must be based on individual responsibility, not government regulations and statutes.
> 
> Are you suggesting things like minimum wage laws???
> 
> ....walter e. williams:
> 
> While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
> Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our current crappy manufacturing sector is not a result of individual responsibility, it is a result fo bad government trade policy.
> 
> 
> If we have trade policy to encourage US manufacturing and immigration policy to reduce labor supply, minimum wage laws will become quickly irrelevant as wages rise well beyond them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "... bad government trade policy..."
> 
> Spot on!
> Somehow, Liberals, Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, etc., have put their faith in the knowledge of self-proclaimed experts, rather than the wisdom of society itself.
> 
> "Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from birth what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government to do good."
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society.
> 
> Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state.
> 
> Engels argued for “scientific socialism,” a redesign of society supposedly based on the scientific method. Communist intellectuals planned to mold the New Soviet Man. Progressives yearned for a society guided by impartial agencies unconstrained by old-fashioned politics and religion.
> 
> Herbert Croly, founder of the New Republic and a leading light of progressivism, predicted that a “better future would derive from the beneficent activities of expert social engineers who would bring to the service of social ideals all the technical resources which research could discover.”
> The Real War on Science
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not Conservative, that's Classical Liberalism.
> 
> Real Conservatives grasp that Authoritarianism is needed, to stop Liberal / Capitalist degeneracy, like hired Illegals, hired Refugees, Outsourced jobs, Pornography, Prostitution, Illicit drugs, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Hollywood, Media, and Facebook too.
> 
> The Refugees, and Illegals (Migrants) you hate so dearly, are largely here because of the Capitalism you support.
Click to expand...




Wrong again.

Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.



*"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
*Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*



They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

PoliticalChic said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. We live in a "global economy" because of policy that makes it so. We don't have to have our workers in direct competition with far lower wage workers elsewhere.
> 
> 2. We were a massive exporting nation then. Today we are exactly opposite.
> 
> 3. I don't see how anything in my example was about awarding success.
> 
> 3b Working 40 hours a week, if that is enough to pay the bills, is not going to make father feel less a sense of accomplishment. Will Asian culture really collapse if Dad has time to teach his son to ride a bike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The accomplishments must be based on individual responsibility, not government regulations and statutes.
> 
> Are you suggesting things like minimum wage laws???
> 
> ....walter e. williams:
> 
> While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
> Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Our current crappy manufacturing sector is not a result of individual responsibility, it is a result fo bad government trade policy.
> 
> 
> If we have trade policy to encourage US manufacturing and immigration policy to reduce labor supply, minimum wage laws will become quickly irrelevant as wages rise well beyond them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "... bad government trade policy..."
> 
> Spot on!
> Somehow, Liberals, Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, etc., have put their faith in the knowledge of self-proclaimed experts, rather than the wisdom of society itself.
> 
> "Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from birth what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government to do good."
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society.
> 
> Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state.
> 
> Engels argued for “scientific socialism,” a redesign of society supposedly based on the scientific method. Communist intellectuals planned to mold the New Soviet Man. Progressives yearned for a society guided by impartial agencies unconstrained by old-fashioned politics and religion.
> 
> Herbert Croly, founder of the New Republic and a leading light of progressivism, predicted that a “better future would derive from the beneficent activities of expert social engineers who would bring to the service of social ideals all the technical resources which research could discover.”
> The Real War on Science
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not Conservative, that's Classical Liberalism.
> 
> Real Conservatives grasp that Authoritarianism is needed, to stop Liberal / Capitalist degeneracy, like hired Illegals, hired Refugees, Outsourced jobs, Pornography, Prostitution, Illicit drugs, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Hollywood, Media, and Facebook too.
> 
> The Refugees, and Illegals (Migrants) you hate so dearly, are largely here because of the Capitalism you support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
> *Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
Click to expand...


Because Contractors, Restaurants & Farmers haven't hired illegal immigrants in mass?
Really?


----------



## PoliticalChic

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The accomplishments must be based on individual responsibility, not government regulations and statutes.
> 
> Are you suggesting things like minimum wage laws???
> 
> ....walter e. williams:
> 
> While legislative bodies have the power to order wage increases, they have not as of yet found a way to order commensurate increases in worker productivity that make the worker’s output worth the higher wage.
> Further, while Congress can legislate the wage at which labor transactions occur, it cannot require that the transaction actually be made, and the worker hired.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our current crappy manufacturing sector is not a result of individual responsibility, it is a result fo bad government trade policy.
> 
> 
> If we have trade policy to encourage US manufacturing and immigration policy to reduce labor supply, minimum wage laws will become quickly irrelevant as wages rise well beyond them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "... bad government trade policy..."
> 
> Spot on!
> Somehow, Liberals, Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, etc., have put their faith in the knowledge of self-proclaimed experts, rather than the wisdom of society itself.
> 
> "Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from birth what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government to do good."
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society.
> 
> Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state.
> 
> Engels argued for “scientific socialism,” a redesign of society supposedly based on the scientific method. Communist intellectuals planned to mold the New Soviet Man. Progressives yearned for a society guided by impartial agencies unconstrained by old-fashioned politics and religion.
> 
> Herbert Croly, founder of the New Republic and a leading light of progressivism, predicted that a “better future would derive from the beneficent activities of expert social engineers who would bring to the service of social ideals all the technical resources which research could discover.”
> The Real War on Science
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not Conservative, that's Classical Liberalism.
> 
> Real Conservatives grasp that Authoritarianism is needed, to stop Liberal / Capitalist degeneracy, like hired Illegals, hired Refugees, Outsourced jobs, Pornography, Prostitution, Illicit drugs, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Hollywood, Media, and Facebook too.
> 
> The Refugees, and Illegals (Migrants) you hate so dearly, are largely here because of the Capitalism you support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
> *Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Contractors, Restaurants & Farmers haven't hired illegal immigrants in mass?
> Really?
Click to expand...




Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.



*"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
*Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*



They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.





Really.


----------



## Pilot1

UK = LOST CAUSE.  Who cares?


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

PoliticalChic said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our current crappy manufacturing sector is not a result of individual responsibility, it is a result fo bad government trade policy.
> 
> 
> If we have trade policy to encourage US manufacturing and immigration policy to reduce labor supply, minimum wage laws will become quickly irrelevant as wages rise well beyond them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... bad government trade policy..."
> 
> Spot on!
> Somehow, Liberals, Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, etc., have put their faith in the knowledge of self-proclaimed experts, rather than the wisdom of society itself.
> 
> "Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from birth what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government to do good."
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society.
> 
> Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state.
> 
> Engels argued for “scientific socialism,” a redesign of society supposedly based on the scientific method. Communist intellectuals planned to mold the New Soviet Man. Progressives yearned for a society guided by impartial agencies unconstrained by old-fashioned politics and religion.
> 
> Herbert Croly, founder of the New Republic and a leading light of progressivism, predicted that a “better future would derive from the beneficent activities of expert social engineers who would bring to the service of social ideals all the technical resources which research could discover.”
> The Real War on Science
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not Conservative, that's Classical Liberalism.
> 
> Real Conservatives grasp that Authoritarianism is needed, to stop Liberal / Capitalist degeneracy, like hired Illegals, hired Refugees, Outsourced jobs, Pornography, Prostitution, Illicit drugs, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Hollywood, Media, and Facebook too.
> 
> The Refugees, and Illegals (Migrants) you hate so dearly, are largely here because of the Capitalism you support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
> *Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Contractors, Restaurants & Farmers haven't hired illegal immigrants in mass?
> Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"
> Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really.
Click to expand...


It actually started with Reagan's Amnesty & Capitalists hiring illegals.


----------



## Pilot1

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> "... bad government trade policy..."
> 
> Spot on!
> Somehow, Liberals, Democrats, Progressives, Socialists, etc., have put their faith in the knowledge of self-proclaimed experts, rather than the wisdom of society itself.
> 
> "Somehow liberals have been unable to acquire from birth what conservatives seem to be endowed with at birth: namely, a healthy skepticism of the powers of government to do good."
> Daniel Patrick Moynihan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society.
> 
> Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state.
> 
> Engels argued for “scientific socialism,” a redesign of society supposedly based on the scientific method. Communist intellectuals planned to mold the New Soviet Man. Progressives yearned for a society guided by impartial agencies unconstrained by old-fashioned politics and religion.
> 
> Herbert Croly, founder of the New Republic and a leading light of progressivism, predicted that a “better future would derive from the beneficent activities of expert social engineers who would bring to the service of social ideals all the technical resources which research could discover.”
> The Real War on Science
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not Conservative, that's Classical Liberalism.
> 
> Real Conservatives grasp that Authoritarianism is needed, to stop Liberal / Capitalist degeneracy, like hired Illegals, hired Refugees, Outsourced jobs, Pornography, Prostitution, Illicit drugs, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Hollywood, Media, and Facebook too.
> 
> The Refugees, and Illegals (Migrants) you hate so dearly, are largely here because of the Capitalism you support.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
> *Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Contractors, Restaurants & Farmers haven't hired illegal immigrants in mass?
> Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"
> Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually started with Reagan's Amnesty & Capitalists hiring illegals.
Click to expand...


Reagan made a DEAL with Democrats.  Amnesty for Secure Borders.  The Democrats lied, and reneged on the deal.  Hence, NEVER trust Democrats again.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Pilot1 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not Conservative, that's Classical Liberalism.
> 
> Real Conservatives grasp that Authoritarianism is needed, to stop Liberal / Capitalist degeneracy, like hired Illegals, hired Refugees, Outsourced jobs, Pornography, Prostitution, Illicit drugs, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Hollywood, Media, and Facebook too.
> 
> The Refugees, and Illegals (Migrants) you hate so dearly, are largely here because of the Capitalism you support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
> *Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because Contractors, Restaurants & Farmers haven't hired illegal immigrants in mass?
> Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"
> Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually started with Reagan's Amnesty & Capitalists hiring illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan made a DEAL with Democrats.  Amnesty for Secure Borders.  The Democrats lied, and reneged on the deal.  Hence, NEVER trust Democrats again.
Click to expand...


Regardless, it was a blow to the USA & an encouragement for illegals.


----------



## Pilot1

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again.
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"*
> *Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because Contractors, Restaurants & Farmers haven't hired illegal immigrants in mass?
> Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"
> Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually started with Reagan's Amnesty & Capitalists hiring illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan made a DEAL with Democrats.  Amnesty for Secure Borders.  The Democrats lied, and reneged on the deal.  Hence, NEVER trust Democrats again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Regardless, it was a blow to the USA & an encouragement for illegals.
Click to expand...


You blamed Reagan.  You were wrong.  Get your facts straight.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Pilot1 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because Contractors, Restaurants & Farmers haven't hired illegal immigrants in mass?
> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"
> Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It actually started with Reagan's Amnesty & Capitalists hiring illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan made a DEAL with Democrats.  Amnesty for Secure Borders.  The Democrats lied, and reneged on the deal.  Hence, NEVER trust Democrats again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Regardless, it was a blow to the USA & an encouragement for illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You blamed Reagan.  You were wrong.  Get your facts straight.
Click to expand...


Reagan signed the amnesty what's there not to get?


----------



## Pilot1

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illegals are here because of invitations and enticements by the Democrat Party.
> 
> 
> 
> *"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"
> Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily*
> 
> 
> 
> They are here for welfare, and to vote for Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It actually started with Reagan's Amnesty & Capitalists hiring illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan made a DEAL with Democrats.  Amnesty for Secure Borders.  The Democrats lied, and reneged on the deal.  Hence, NEVER trust Democrats again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Regardless, it was a blow to the USA & an encouragement for illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You blamed Reagan.  You were wrong.  Get your facts straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan signed the amnesty what's there not to get?
Click to expand...


No mention of the agreement with, nor PROMISE by the Democrats. That's what not to get.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

Pilot1 said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pilot1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> It actually started with Reagan's Amnesty & Capitalists hiring illegals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reagan made a DEAL with Democrats.  Amnesty for Secure Borders.  The Democrats lied, and reneged on the deal.  Hence, NEVER trust Democrats again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Regardless, it was a blow to the USA & an encouragement for illegals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You blamed Reagan.  You were wrong.  Get your facts straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan signed the amnesty what's there not to get?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No mention of the agreement with, nor PROMISE by the Democrats. That's what not to get.
Click to expand...


Yet, Republican H.W Bush was in right after Reagan.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
Click to expand...





The enervating poison of low expectations.


----------



## basquebromance

i dont reccomend college for everyone. be a plumber, they get rich!


----------



## Likkmee

Dovahkiin said:


> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dovahkiin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SassyIrishLass said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let'em learn where they came from
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you'll personally be able to throw these kids out of their new schools and back into the oh so wonderful places they came from.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You troll a lot. It's becoming tiresome
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you think will have to be done?
Click to expand...

Trump will build schools and Mexico will pay for it !


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Guaranteed its oriental Asians and other white immigrants from elsewhere  driving up the numbers of these countries barley squeaking a
+

Also  you have the lefts lowering of standards because lefttards and their allies have defective brains and lower IQs 
*
How migrant pupils achieve compared with non-migrant, among top 10% in test results
Pupils with a migrant background* *Migrants and non-migrants, gap in test results
*
Canada 30% +9 Migrants achieve higher
Finland 3% -57 Migrants achieve lower
France 15% -25 Migrants achieve lower
Germany 13% -28 Migrants achieve lower
Hong Kong 35% +13 Migrants achieve higher
Italy 8% -25 Migrants achieve lower
New Zealand 26% +13 Migrants achieve higher
Singapore 18% +11 Migrants achieve higher
Sweden 15% +8 Migrants achieve higher
Switzerland 24% -35 Migrants achieve lower
United Kingdom 13% +10 Migrants achieve higher
United States 22% +7 Migrants achieve higher
United Arab Emirates 55% +75 Migrants achieve higher


they'll run with anything wont they


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> .....
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition........




A loser attitude if ever there was one.


----------



## Unkotare

"With children of early America, deference to parents and other elders and unquestioning obedience to those in authority were of prime importance. George Washington’s mother kept a bundle of peach branches in her pocket to be used as punishment for offences against her ironbound rules. Deportment was taught at school and at home and formality existed at all times. Courtesy was a duty and children were silent before grown-ups. When addressed by them, a bow before speaking was the proper response. The young were taught that it was a sin to complain about meals, clothes or tasks. There were many of the latter for each child to perform, according to age and sex, for families were large."

Childhood In Early America | Collectors Weekly


----------



## Unkotare

basquebromance said:


> i dont reccomend college for everyone. be a plumber, they get rich!




Not if everyone becomes a plumber.


----------



## rightwinger

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


Especially the Muslim ones


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
Click to expand...



Nope.


What is the benefit to America or Americans?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do not believe there is a real benefit from that level of competition........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A loser attitude if ever there was one.
Click to expand...



Said the man that was unable to express what the benefit is.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
Click to expand...



Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.


----------



## Unkotare

Worse still are those who would insist on holding the next generation to no greater expectation than their own weakness. They want everyone to be as weak as they are so they can delude themselves that their weakness is good enough. 

The greatest gift to the next generation is to help them be much more than us. They are fully capable of being so, but not if they are subject to the poison of low expectations from the weakest among us.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.
Click to expand...



The weak do not become strong. Especially when it is not really the "Weak" you are talking about, but people already with quite a good game. 


THey just lose, and some one else wins. 


So, what is the gain for America and Americans to importing competition?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THey just lose, and some one else wins.
> 
> 
> ...?
Click to expand...




If they are not strong enough.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an over generalization, but... *Illegal* alien offspring  take it for granted they get away with whatever, *Legal* immigrant kids are trying to live up to a higher standard. That is one of the differences between "immigrants" and illegal aliens. This is not a scientifically proven fact. Just my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The weak do not become strong. .......?
Click to expand...




Spoken like someone who never actually tried. Pathetic. The weak absolutely can become strong. It happens all the time when people are challenged instead of coddled.


----------



## miketx

I'd bet all those kids excel at are walking long distances and swimming.


----------



## Unkotare

miketx said:


> I'd bet all those kids excel at are walking long distances and swimming.


???????


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THey just lose, and some one else wins.
> 
> 
> ...?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they are not strong enough.
Click to expand...



Says the person that can't name the benefit to America or Americans.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read recently an interesting study on higher class whites dealing with increasing competition from higher class, especially Asian immigrants with an extremely competitive and education driven culture.
> 
> And I saw no benefit for America or Americans in the developments mentioned.
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do in order for them to have a shot at getting into a top college.
> 
> That is not making this nation or the world a better place.
> 
> It's making it crappier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The weak do not become strong. .......?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like someone who never actually tried. Pathetic. The weak absolutely can become strong. It happens all the time when people are challenged instead of coddled.
Click to expand...


And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans. 


The top is the result of a government policy.


Asking for the benefit of the policy to be named, is completely reasonable. 



That you can't name a benefit to America or Americans, seems to call in to question, whether it is a good policy. 


imo.


----------



## miketx

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The enervating poison of low expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The weak do not become strong. .......?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like someone who never actually tried. Pathetic. The weak absolutely can become strong. It happens all the time when people are challenged instead of coddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans.
> 
> 
> The top is the result of a government policy.
> 
> 
> Asking for the benefit of the policy to be named, is completely reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> That you can't name a benefit to America or Americans, seems to call in to question, whether it is a good policy.
> 
> 
> imo.
Click to expand...

The troll wont answer because there is no benefit.


----------



## Correll

miketx said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> What is the benefit to America or Americans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Competition separates the weak from the strong. The weak are thus forced to become stronger and the strong to become stronger still. An unsharpened blade becomes useless. Those who are fully convinced of their own weakness hate competition because they hate being faced with their own limitations. Rather than push themselves to exceed those limitations they would rather have their weakness recognized as a kind of protected status where they never have to try and be better than they are. That kind of self-indulgent weakness is not American.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The weak do not become strong. .......?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like someone who never actually tried. Pathetic. The weak absolutely can become strong. It happens all the time when people are challenged instead of coddled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans.
> 
> 
> The top is the result of a government policy.
> 
> 
> Asking for the benefit of the policy to be named, is completely reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> That you can't name a benefit to America or Americans, seems to call in to question, whether it is a good policy.
> 
> 
> imo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The troll wont answer because there is no benefit.
Click to expand...



Or, he will answer, but his answer will just be more of the same bs, ie circular reasoning and bullshit personal attacks.



THe cost is obvious. American children losing out on opportunities. 


Why are we doing this to ourselves?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...




You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you? 

People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement? 

Hopeless.


----------



## miketx

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> Hopeless.
Click to expand...

What are destitute illegals trained in?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> Hopeless.
Click to expand...



THe Op is not about how competition is making Americans "better, smarter, ect ect ect", but how Americans are losing out to migrant children. 


Being replaced, and losing opportunities to outsiders, is  not a benefit to Americans.


You are utterly unable to cite a single benefit to Americans from the OP.


----------



## Unkotare

miketx said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> Hopeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are destitute illegals trained in?
Click to expand...





You need to learn how to pay attention. We have not been talking about “destitute illegals.”


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> Hopeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THe Op is not about how competition is making Americans "better, smarter, ect ect ect", but how Americans are losing out to migrant children.
> .....
Click to expand...




Wrong. That’s YOUR assumption because you think Americans can’t compete just because YOU never could.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> Hopeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THe Op is not about how competition is making Americans "better, smarter, ect ect ect", but how Americans are losing out to migrant children.
> .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong. That’s YOUR assumption because you think Americans can’t compete just because YOU never could.
Click to expand...



Your desire to bog the thread down in personal attacks is noted and dismissed.


Support your claim that this "Competition" is making Americans better.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> Hopeless.
Click to expand...

.!


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> And you are still unable to name the benefit to Americans...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> Hopeless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .!
Click to expand...




To support your often make claim that it is to the benefit of Americans, YES, you have to spell it out. 


I noticed that you did not do that. 


I know that you know that I know that.


You know that I know that you know that I know that.


ANd yet, you still keep talking shit about it, but never actually do it. 


Almost like you CAN'T.


----------



## Jitss617

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


Yea In towns run by democrats


----------



## Unkotare

You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?

People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?





We both see that you were unable to answer the challenge there. 


Kind of ironic when you consider that your position is all about challenges leading to higher results...


I just realized. Your failure is an excellent example of the flaw in your argument.


Since you can't meet the challenge, what you need to do, if go find someone who CAN do it, let them answer it,


AND THEN, you need to explain how them doing it FOR you, made you a better person. 



Go!


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We both see that you were unable to answer the challenge there.
> 
> 
> ...
Click to expand...



Look, it’s right there. You even quoted it yourself.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We both see that you were unable to answer the challenge there.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Look, it’s right there. You even quoted it yourself.
Click to expand...



Said the man still not spelling out the benefit to America or Americans. 


Dude. How many times are you going to demonstrate my point for me?


----------



## Unkotare

You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?

People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> "While striving to win, children learn about teamwork, leadership and sportsmanship, all of which can contribute to their development as solid citizens."
> 
> 
> Sports Teach Kids Valuable Lessons - NYTimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> I have pointed out the obvious truth, supported with links to article on South Korean laws and quotes from a South Korean, that high levels of competition have negative impacts on health and family life and detracts from other activities and happiness.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked you if you'd ever been to South Korea, seen South Korean schools, met South Korean families and their children and gotten to know them personally. You ignored this question because the answer highlights your weak-minded clinging to stereotypes and ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
Click to expand...





.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?




YOu are forgetting. You have already demonstrated that you cannot do it.


Now, what you need to do, is get someone ELSE to do the job INSTEAD OF YOU.


And then, explain how having some one else do it, makes you a better person.


This is what you are claiming happens. So demonstrate it, and then explain it. Stop wasting time. DO IT. 


Or admit that you cannot.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu are forgetting. You have already demonstrated that you cannot do it.
> 
> 
> Now, what you need to do, is get someone ELSE to do the job INSTEAD OF YOU.
> 
> 
> And then, explain how having some one else do it, makes you a better person.
> 
> 
> This is what you are claiming happens. So demonstrate it, and then explain it. Stop wasting time. DO IT.
> 
> 
> Or admit that you cannot.
Click to expand...




Since you are ignoring my answer, I’ll help you learn a different way.


Do you think it would be beneficial for American students to have more & better education or not?


Start with that and we’ll work up. 


Think slowly; don’t hurt yourself.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu are forgetting. You have already demonstrated that you cannot do it.
> 
> 
> Now, what you need to do, is get someone ELSE to do the job INSTEAD OF YOU.
> 
> 
> And then, explain how having some one else do it, makes you a better person.
> 
> 
> This is what you are claiming happens. So demonstrate it, and then explain it. Stop wasting time. DO IT.
> 
> 
> Or admit that you cannot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are ignoring my answer, I’ll help you learn a different way.
> 
> 
> Do you think it would be beneficial for American students to have more & better education or not?
> 
> 
> Start with that and we’ll work up.
> 
> 
> Think slowly; don’t hurt yourself.
Click to expand...




Depends on the student in question. And how or what is improving the education of any American students in this scenario?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu are forgetting. You have already demonstrated that you cannot do it.
> 
> 
> Now, what you need to do, is get someone ELSE to do the job INSTEAD OF YOU.
> 
> 
> And then, explain how having some one else do it, makes you a better person.
> 
> 
> This is what you are claiming happens. So demonstrate it, and then explain it. Stop wasting time. DO IT.
> 
> 
> Or admit that you cannot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are ignoring my answer, I’ll help you learn a different way.
> 
> 
> Do you think it would be beneficial for American students to have more & better education or not?
> 
> 
> Start with that and we’ll work up.
> 
> 
> Think slowly; don’t hurt yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the student in question. .....
Click to expand...



There you have it, folks. ^^^^^^ THE PROBLEM.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu are forgetting. You have already demonstrated that you cannot do it.
> 
> 
> Now, what you need to do, is get someone ELSE to do the job INSTEAD OF YOU.
> 
> 
> And then, explain how having some one else do it, makes you a better person.
> 
> 
> This is what you are claiming happens. So demonstrate it, and then explain it. Stop wasting time. DO IT.
> 
> 
> Or admit that you cannot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are ignoring my answer, I’ll help you learn a different way.
> 
> 
> Do you think it would be beneficial for American students to have more & better education or not?
> 
> 
> Start with that and we’ll work up.
> 
> 
> Think slowly; don’t hurt yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the student in question. .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it, folks. ^^^^^^ THE PROBLEM.
Click to expand...



Not all students need or can benefit from increased education. You do know that, right?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need it spelled out for you what the benefit is of Americans being better, smarter, more well educated, more highly trained, more capable? Are you so utterly flaccid that achievement and accomplishment are foreign concepts to you?
> 
> People are always bitching about American education, but you can't even imagine the benefit of greater educational achievement?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu are forgetting. You have already demonstrated that you cannot do it.
> 
> 
> Now, what you need to do, is get someone ELSE to do the job INSTEAD OF YOU.
> 
> 
> And then, explain how having some one else do it, makes you a better person.
> 
> 
> This is what you are claiming happens. So demonstrate it, and then explain it. Stop wasting time. DO IT.
> 
> 
> Or admit that you cannot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are ignoring my answer, I’ll help you learn a different way.
> 
> 
> Do you think it would be beneficial for American students to have more & better education or not?
> 
> 
> Start with that and we’ll work up.
> 
> 
> Think slowly; don’t hurt yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the student in question. .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it, folks. ^^^^^^ THE PROBLEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not all students need or can benefit from increased education. You do know that, right?
Click to expand...



There you go, everyone. Take a good look at the poison of weakness and failure that threatens the Republic. THAT ^^^^^^ is the enemy within.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOu are forgetting. You have already demonstrated that you cannot do it.
> 
> 
> Now, what you need to do, is get someone ELSE to do the job INSTEAD OF YOU.
> 
> 
> And then, explain how having some one else do it, makes you a better person.
> 
> 
> This is what you are claiming happens. So demonstrate it, and then explain it. Stop wasting time. DO IT.
> 
> 
> Or admit that you cannot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are ignoring my answer, I’ll help you learn a different way.
> 
> 
> Do you think it would be beneficial for American students to have more & better education or not?
> 
> 
> Start with that and we’ll work up.
> 
> 
> Think slowly; don’t hurt yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the student in question. .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it, folks. ^^^^^^ THE PROBLEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not all students need or can benefit from increased education. You do know that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, everyone. Take a good look at the poison of weakness and failure that threatens the Republic. THAT ^^^^^^ is the enemy within.
Click to expand...



Dude, I thought you had an education background.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since you are ignoring my answer, I’ll help you learn a different way.
> 
> 
> Do you think it would be beneficial for American students to have more & better education or not?
> 
> 
> Start with that and we’ll work up.
> 
> 
> Think slowly; don’t hurt yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the student in question. .....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it, folks. ^^^^^^ THE PROBLEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not all students need or can benefit from increased education. You do know that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, everyone. Take a good look at the poison of weakness and failure that threatens the Republic. THAT ^^^^^^ is the enemy within.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I thought you had an education background.
Click to expand...




You’re opposed to that, right?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the student in question. .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it, folks. ^^^^^^ THE PROBLEM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not all students need or can benefit from increased education. You do know that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, everyone. Take a good look at the poison of weakness and failure that threatens the Republic. THAT ^^^^^^ is the enemy within.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I thought you had an education background.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re opposed to that, right?
Click to expand...



No, you obviously have the intellect to benefit from higher education. 


Not everyone does. We both know that, but for ideological reasons, you cannot admit it. I understand.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you have it, folks. ^^^^^^ THE PROBLEM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not all students need or can benefit from increased education. You do know that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, everyone. Take a good look at the poison of weakness and failure that threatens the Republic. THAT ^^^^^^ is the enemy within.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I thought you had an education background.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re opposed to that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you obviously have the intellect to benefit from higher education.
> 
> 
> Not everyone does. We both know that, but for ideological reasons, you cannot admit it. I understand.
Click to expand...




Take a good look, ladies and gents ^^^^^^


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not all students need or can benefit from increased education. You do know that, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There you go, everyone. Take a good look at the poison of weakness and failure that threatens the Republic. THAT ^^^^^^ is the enemy within.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I thought you had an education background.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re opposed to that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you obviously have the intellect to benefit from higher education.
> 
> 
> Not everyone does. We both know that, but for ideological reasons, you cannot admit it. I understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a good look, ladies and gents ^^^^^^
Click to expand...




You have utterly failed to do anything here.


----------



## Polishprince

SassyIrishLass said:


> Let'em learn where they came from




Exactly.  

If they stayed at home, they could Make Krapistan Great Again.


But I don't think that there is any doubt that Illegals coming to America are crafty individuals.

Natives from places like the Congo are able to find their way from Deepest Darkest Africa to America through Mexico, on their own without knowing a word of English or Spanish or any money.

I have no doubt that there are a lot of talented people among the Illegal Population.


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
Click to expand...

If migrant kids are good why does trump put them in the same internment camps your boy FDR put Jap Americans?

Do you agree with putting migrant kids in deplorable conditions?


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If migrant kids are good why does trump put them in the same internment camps your boy FDR put Jap Americans?
> 
> Do you agree with putting migrant kids in deplorable conditions?
Click to expand...



Unfortunately, the border is being rushed with massive crowds of Illegals,  and the libs in Congress refuse to change the rules, refuse to provide more money, even refuse to admit there is a crisis.

The only alternative to stopping people for processing is for ICE to stand down , open the gates, and let anyone who can't fit comfortably into the camps to be vetted into America.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If migrant kids are good why does trump put them in the same internment camps your boy FDR put Jap Americans?
> 
> Do you agree with putting migrant kids in deplorable conditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the border is being rushed with massive crowds of Illegals,  and the libs in Congress refuse to change the rules, refuse to provide more money, even refuse to admit there is a crisis.
> 
> The only alternative to stopping people for processing is for ICE to stand down , open the gates, and let anyone who can't fit comfortably into the camps to be vetted into America.
Click to expand...


Please don't blame Democrats

One of Donald Trump’s past tweets is coming back to haunt him.  “Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible,” the former businessman tweeted in 2013.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If migrant kids are good why does trump put them in the same internment camps your boy FDR put Jap Americans?
> 
> Do you agree with putting migrant kids in deplorable conditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the border is being rushed with massive crowds of Illegals,  and the libs in Congress refuse to change the rules, refuse to provide more money, even refuse to admit there is a crisis.
> 
> The only alternative to stopping people for processing is for ICE to stand down , open the gates, and let anyone who can't fit comfortably into the camps to be vetted into America.
Click to expand...


This is fake news

“In FY 2017, CBP [Customs and Border Protection] recorded the lowest level of illegal cross-border migration on record, as measured by apprehensions along the border and inadmissible encounters at U.S. ports of entry,” according to the Trump administration’s DHS report released in December 2017. 

Did the situation at the border change dramatically over the next 13 months and go from an historic “lowest level of illegal cross-border migration” to a national crisis? The answer is, “No.”


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Then change the education system.
> 
> Or let  the corporations can do their own training.
> 
> Or let the corporations lobby for education reform instead of more visas.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You suck at math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Not really. It's been a while since I have done any higher math. But I was fine at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You suck at very simple math.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If migrant kids are good why does trump put them in the same internment camps your boy FDR put Jap Americans?
> 
> Do you agree with putting migrant kids in deplorable conditions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the border is being rushed with massive crowds of Illegals,  and the libs in Congress refuse to change the rules, refuse to provide more money, even refuse to admit there is a crisis.
> 
> The only alternative to stopping people for processing is for ICE to stand down , open the gates, and let anyone who can't fit comfortably into the camps to be vetted into America.
Click to expand...


For once Trump told the truth

Trump says illegal immigration lowest in 17 years


----------



## sealybobo

So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.




Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.

The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
Click to expand...

Certainly it's not right what is happening.


----------



## Desperado

The local kids are feed up with the immigrants and have lost their enthusiasm for school.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
Click to expand...


In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:

_“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”

And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.

The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.

When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.” 


_


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
Click to expand...



The Knavs family weren't human traffickers, drug smugglers or MS13 people,sealy.

In fact, they were highly educated people , one and all.Mrs. Trump knows 5 languages.

Very intelligent, very qualified, the kind of immigrants we need in this country.  I was particularly impressed with LGBTQ+-friendly photo shoot that Melania did. Shows the openness of the Trump family as well as the Knavs family to those of alternative lifestyles.


----------



## Borillar

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


That hasn’t been my experience here in Oregon. The ESL kids are generally holding the rest of the class behind as they are catered to.


----------



## Unkotare

Desperado said:


> The local kids are feed up with the immigrants and have lost their enthusiasm for school.



Which "local kids"?


----------



## koshergrl

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


That's in Britain. Look at what they're competing against. Americans outperform Brits when we migrate there, too.


----------



## Desperado

Unkotare said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> The local kids are feed up with the immigrants and have lost their enthusiasm for school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which "local kids"?
Click to expand...

Who cares it is in England


----------



## Unkotare

Borillar said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> That hasn’t been my experience here in Oregon. The ESL kids are generally holding the rest of the class behind as they are catered to.
Click to expand...



"Catered to"?


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
Click to expand...




ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
Click to expand...


Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Knavs family weren't human traffickers, drug smugglers or MS13 people,sealy.
> 
> In fact, they were highly educated people , one and all.Mrs. Trump knows 5 languages.
> 
> Very intelligent, very qualified, the kind of immigrants we need in this country.  I was particularly impressed with LGBTQ+-friendly photo shoot that Melania did. Shows the openness of the Trump family as well as the Knavs family to those of alternative lifestyles.
Click to expand...

But their daughter was poor af.


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
Click to expand...


What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites. 

It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.

Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.

The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.

Wake up america


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
Click to expand...



Republicans don't want to cut Social Security at all.

The problem with social security is that people are living a lot longer so the the government has to pay more.

And of course, during the Obama Regime, millions of American were put on SS disability payments for bullshit disabilities.

"I'm Depressed" was the favorite one. 

If I would have told my dad "I'm Depressed", he would have told me "Boo fucking hoo" and "Tough shit".

In any event, President Bush had the perfect plan for Social Security invest it into the market. . Since then, stocks have risen, old people could have had their checks doubled.


----------



## Dr Grump

_


koshergrl said:





Tommy Tainant said:



Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News

I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
		
Click to expand...

That's in Britain. Look at what they're competing against. Americans outperform Brits when we migrate there, too.
		
Click to expand...


From the link you ignorant Twat. Even bolded the important part just for your thick brain.

While immigrant youngsters might face cultural, social and economic disadvantages, the top 10% of 15-year-old students with an immigrant background in the *United States* did just as well as the top 10% without an immigrant background, as measured by the international Pisa tests.
_
Also, link please to back up your assertion that US immigrants fare better in the UK when they get there.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
Click to expand...


Said the man unable to place an upper limit on the amount of work to be expected from a child.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
Click to expand...




Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem. 


Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting. 

It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand. 


Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING. 


FUCKING STOP IT.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it went from the lowest in 17 years in 2017 to a problem today and it's who's fault?  Sorry GOP but you were in full control for a couple years.  Please tell us what bills Nancy Pelosi passed in the House that made it through the Senate and past Trump that you want to now say it's her fault.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Said the man unable to place an upper limit on the amount of work to be expected from a child.
Click to expand...




Because every child is exactly the same.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Said the man unable to place an upper limit on the amount of work to be expected from a child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because every child is exactly the same.
Click to expand...



Never said they were. Your inability to give an upper limit, still shows the flaw in your position.


If there is no upper limit, in your position, to the amount of work to be placed on children, then yes, at some point, their lives will be ruined. 


Your refusal to address that, shows that you are prepared to accept it, or just operating in denial.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Said the man unable to place an upper limit on the amount of work to be expected from a child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because every child is exactly the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Never said they were. ......ial.
Click to expand...



That’s what assuming the same “upper limit” for everyone means, dumbass.


You’ve made it very clear that you are afraid of hard work and competition. Don’t try to change your story now.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the Flores Decision and the rise of Sanctuary cities is what is the engine for increase illegals at the border.   The Flores decision makes it impossible to just summarily deport Illegals, and with no wall they just walk right through.
> 
> The current procedures means that Illegals actually run TOWARD the border guards to turn themselves in, knowing they will be released quickly into America with a court date 4 years hence.  The current rules promote people to bring their children with them across the border.   They also encourage people with serious illness to make the trip, with the promise of Free Medical care in California.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
Click to expand...


Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.

Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.

Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.

You're being duped.


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.




Not true at all.   Non-unionized auto workers for VW and Toyota and Honda make wages comparable to Ford and GM.

Ford workers did well long before the UAW came in.   Henry Ford raised their wages to encourage stability in the work force and achieve consistency in the end product.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all.   Non-unionized auto workers for VW and Toyota and Honda make wages comparable to Ford and GM.
> 
> Ford workers did well long before the UAW came in.   Henry Ford raised their wages to encourage stability in the work force and achieve consistency in the end product.
Click to expand...

Yea but most of the people who work in those VW and Toyota and Honda plants are temp workers or private contractors who don't make as much and don't get nearly the same benefits.  Do you know this?


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all.   Non-unionized auto workers for VW and Toyota and Honda make wages comparable to Ford and GM.
> 
> Ford workers did well long before the UAW came in.   Henry Ford raised their wages to encourage stability in the work force and achieve consistency in the end product.
Click to expand...


If it weren't for the threat that the companies would move VW, Toyota and Honda workers wanted to unionize.  They were threatened not to. 

And why do you think those companies pay comparable wages to what the union auto companies pay?  Those VW workers should thank the unions.  If not for them and the fear of unionizing those employees would be making $15 and no benefits just like Walmart pays.  

Ah, if only Walton's were as kind as Henry Ford

Walton family - Wikipedia

The Walton's are greedy billionaires you agree?


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all.   Non-unionized auto workers for VW and Toyota and Honda make wages comparable to Ford and GM.
> 
> Ford workers did well long before the UAW came in.   Henry Ford raised their wages to encourage stability in the work force and achieve consistency in the end product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea but most of the people who work in those VW and Toyota and Honda plants are temp workers or private contractors who don't make as much and don't get nearly the same benefits.  Do you know this?
Click to expand...




What I know is that the VW workers in Chattanooga voted against Big Labor TWICE.   Even after the UAW spent millions on a recruitment drive and the German management really wanted Big Labor to come in.

Had VW agreed to pay a lot more, so the workers would be able to pay union dues and still make a nice profit, the Union might have got it.

But companies have to pay a lot more if they want their workers to unionize nowadays.


----------



## Polishprince

sealybobo said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all.   Non-unionized auto workers for VW and Toyota and Honda make wages comparable to Ford and GM.
> 
> Ford workers did well long before the UAW came in.   Henry Ford raised their wages to encourage stability in the work force and achieve consistency in the end product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it weren't for the threat that the companies would move VW, Toyota and Honda workers wanted to unionize.  They were threatened not to.
> 
> And why do you think those companies pay comparable wages to what the union auto companies pay?  Those VW workers should thank the unions.  If not for them and the fear of unionizing those employees would be making $15 and no benefits just like Walmart pays.
> 
> Ah, if only Walton's were as kind as Henry Ford
> 
> Walton family - Wikipedia
> 
> The Walton's are greedy billionaires you agree?
Click to expand...



I disagree totally.

If there are 2 million Walmart Employees on the pay roll now, there are at least 20 million ex Walmart employees considering their turnover.

If Walmart was the bastard to work for that unionists say,  they would have collapsed with those many ex-associates out there hating their guts.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all.   Non-unionized auto workers for VW and Toyota and Honda make wages comparable to Ford and GM.
> 
> Ford workers did well long before the UAW came in.   Henry Ford raised their wages to encourage stability in the work force and achieve consistency in the end product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea but most of the people who work in those VW and Toyota and Honda plants are temp workers or private contractors who don't make as much and don't get nearly the same benefits.  Do you know this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I know is that the VW workers in Chattanooga voted against Big Labor TWICE.   Even after the UAW spent millions on a recruitment drive and the German management really wanted Big Labor to come in.
> 
> Had VW agreed to pay a lot more, so the workers would be able to pay union dues and still make a nice profit, the Union might have got it.
> 
> But companies have to pay a lot more if they want their workers to unionize nowadays.
Click to expand...

No shit.  But their workers make more.

I think unions have been all but broken.  If Ford wants to move all jobs to Mexico they can so what power do auto unions have?  

I know they do, but I'm hoping one day the Walmart and McD workers will unionize together one day.  It's them who needs it most.

They say McD workers would be unionized in a heartbeat if they weren't all spread out between franchises.  GM workers could organize because they all worked under the same roof.  Harder for McD workers to organize.  But they don't have to worry about their jobs going to mexico.  McD has to hire American workers.  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.

And I don't care if McD goes to automation and 75% of the workers lose their shitty paying jobs.  I'd rather the jobs left that humans have to do pay well.

Or college kids can do those jobs.  It's not McD's responsibility to hire workers they don't need.  If they can automate do it.  I don't like deplorables touching my food anyways.  I'd rather it be a robot.


----------



## sealybobo

Polishprince said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true at all.   Non-unionized auto workers for VW and Toyota and Honda make wages comparable to Ford and GM.
> 
> Ford workers did well long before the UAW came in.   Henry Ford raised their wages to encourage stability in the work force and achieve consistency in the end product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it weren't for the threat that the companies would move VW, Toyota and Honda workers wanted to unionize.  They were threatened not to.
> 
> And why do you think those companies pay comparable wages to what the union auto companies pay?  Those VW workers should thank the unions.  If not for them and the fear of unionizing those employees would be making $15 and no benefits just like Walmart pays.
> 
> Ah, if only Walton's were as kind as Henry Ford
> 
> Walton family - Wikipedia
> 
> The Walton's are greedy billionaires you agree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree totally.
> 
> If there are 2 million Walmart Employees on the pay roll now, there are at least 20 million ex Walmart employees considering their turnover.
> 
> If Walmart was the bastard to work for that unionists say,  they would have collapsed with those many ex-associates out there hating their guts.
Click to expand...


Are you kidding me?  People who work for Walmart have no other options.

My buddy here at work has a step son.  He has been living in his basement and doesn't know if he wants to go to college.  So he got a job at the Walmart.  Good for him.  That job should only pay $10 hr.  I agree with you.  But people who do a good job should be able to find a $30,000 career there.  Or else Walmart has built their business model on taking advantage of the poor and the system.  These employees qualify for food stamps which they use at Walmart.  Brilliant right?

I don't know why/how if the economy is so great and unemployment is so low and companies are saying they can't find workers, why anyone even still works at Walmart.  Probably because the economy is not that great and wages are still what they were under Obama.  Maybe a little better but MAGA?


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> ...
> 
> They say McD workers would be unionized in a heartbeat if they weren't all spread out between franchises. ....




Who is "they"?


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....




Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> ...
> 
> And I don't care if McD goes to automation and 75% of the workers lose their shitty paying jobs. ....




Typical democrat not to give a shit about actual human beings.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......




There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.


----------



## TroglocratsRdumb

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


*The study is correct.
I lived in England for a couple of years.
Many English are drooling left wing dolts who rarely bath, smell bad and neeeever brush their gross their teeth.*


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
Click to expand...


They hire illegals?


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
Click to expand...


You seem to understand the concept when it comes to your job.  Us Republicans think you public school teachers are way over paid.  You claim you can barely make ends meet.  How much do you make?  

I think a Walmart worker who works 40 hours a week should make $600 at least.  That's $30,000 a year.  You make how much and you only work 8 months a year.  And us tax payers pay your salary.  I don't think you should make any more than $50,000 a year.  So now explain to me why a Walmart worker can't make $30,000 but you can make $50,000 a year?  Us tax payers aren't billionaires but the Walmart family is.  

You need to go work for Walmart and get some real world experience.


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> And I don't care if McD goes to automation and 75% of the workers lose their shitty paying jobs. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical democrat not to give a shit about actual human beings.
Click to expand...


Neither do corporations.  If they can automate and save money, you don't avoid automation because you want to save jobs.  No Republican cares about the people of the company.  They only care about the profits.  So don't judge me any more harshly than you would a corporation.  If they can save money by automating you better fucking believe they will and they should.

Stupid question to ask a guy who's a public teacher in a union and who's never had a real job but what would you do?  Would you hire 3 people for $90K a year or hire one robot that can do the same amount of work for $30,000 a year?  That's why you would be a failure at business.  Wrong answer.


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
Click to expand...

The point is you stupid twat is that McD can't threaten to move their locations down the Mexico.  If they want to sell burgers to losers in your town, they have to be located in your town.  So they have to hire an American.  When I say American I mean someone living here.  That person is going to spend that money here.  

Can you prove to me that McD hires non Americans or did you just prove you are a racist?  Because you are assuming those latino looking employees aren't Americans, aren't you?  You racist fuck.  Finally you opened your mouth and racism came out.  I knew it, fish.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They hire illegals?
Click to expand...



Gee, I wonder...


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
Click to expand...




I never made that claim.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> And I don't care if McD goes to automation and 75% of the workers lose their shitty paying jobs. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical democrat not to give a shit about actual human beings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ... a guy ... who's never had a real job ....
Click to expand...




 Another pointless lie.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...When I say American I mean someone living here...
Click to expand...




 Just living here does not make someone an American.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...Because you are assuming those latino looking employees aren't Americans, aren't you?  ...
Click to expand...



 No I am not, dumbass. I’m talking about people I personally know are not here legally and who are working at McDonald’s and other similar establishments.


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They hire illegals?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee, I wonder...
Click to expand...

Then you agree we need to start going after illegal employers like we did before bush stopped doing it?


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
Click to expand...

But it’s true. 

You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who. 

I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...Because you are assuming those latino looking employees aren't Americans, aren't you?  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No I am not, dumbass. I’m talking about people I personally know are not here legally and who are working at McDonald’s and other similar establishments.
Click to expand...

Me too actually. They dont tell me they are illegal but I bet they are.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.....
Click to expand...



No. Stop trolling, brainless.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...Because you are assuming those latino looking employees aren't Americans, aren't you?  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No I am not, dumbass. I’m talking about people I personally know are not here legally and who are working at McDonald’s and other similar establishments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me too actually. They dont tell me they are illegal but I bet they are.
Click to expand...



As usual, you guess and I actually know things in the real world.


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...  McD has to hire American workers. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you that you have very obviously not been to a McDonald's in a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...Because you are assuming those latino looking employees aren't Americans, aren't you?  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No I am not, dumbass. I’m talking about people I personally know are not here legally and who are working at McDonald’s and other similar establishments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me too actually. They dont tell me they are illegal but I bet they are.
Click to expand...


You're just an idiot making guesses. I am talking about people I know personally.


----------



## SweetSue92

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
Click to expand...


Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Said the man unable to place an upper limit on the amount of work to be expected from a child.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because every child is exactly the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Never said they were. ......ial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That’s what assuming the same “upper limit” for everyone means, dumbass.
> 
> 
> You’ve made it very clear that you are afraid of hard work and competition. Don’t try to change your story now.
Click to expand...



You don't need to cut my posts down to nothing. I can read your post and see what point you are or are not addressing.


Your pretense that one cannot talk about groups, and general guide lines is noted and dismisses.


You are emotionally and ideologically committed to success though hard work, and more hard work, and more hard work, and more hard work.



You are too close to the problem to see it clearly. I was once like you, until I succeeded.


Then looking back, I realized that my commitment to the process clouded my vision on what the purpose was.




Your inability to even address, the idea that there is an upper limit on how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> In November of last year Donald Trump tweeted:
> 
> _“CHAIN MIGRATION must end now! Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!”
> 
> And now it turns out that Melania Trump’s parents, Viktor and Amalija Knavs,  just became U.S. citizens through the process of “chain migration” that has been so heavily criticized by Trump. The Knavs were sworn in as U.S. citizens earlier Thursday, during a ceremony in New York. The couple is from Slovenia, where Melania Trump was born and raised.
> 
> The attorney for the first lady’s parents told The New York Times on Thursday that their daughter had sponsored them for a green card, and that they applied for citizenship once they were eligible using the family-based migration rules.
> 
> When asked if the couple became citizens through chain migration, Wildes replied, “I suppose. It’s a dirty — a dirtier word.”
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.
> 
> Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
Click to expand...



I'm aware of the power of corporations and their motive for cheap labor and how they use their power to get it.



Do you see that that is a real conflict of interest between the American worker and those immigrants and that addressing that, is not just fucking RACISM?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to even address, the idea that there is an upper limit on how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.



Which child?


----------



## sealybobo

SweetSue92 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.
Click to expand...

I call her my sister in law but she’s my sister in laws sister. Do you really think you just caught me in a lie? Loser


----------



## sealybobo

SweetSue92 said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  If the workers were smart they'd demand a living wage.
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.
Click to expand...

Eventually your teacher pension will get cut. I’m sure your benefits already have. I’m sure you’re paying more for healthcare than before.

I can’t wait. I hope you are in a two income family. Probably.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.
> 
> Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the power of corporations and their motive for cheap labor and how they use their power to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see that that is a real conflict of interest between the American worker and those immigrants and that addressing that, is not just fucking RACISM?
Click to expand...

It’s not racism I agree.


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ONe can benefit from a system, while realizing the system is flawed and support changing it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.
> 
> Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the power of corporations and their motive for cheap labor and how they use their power to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see that that is a real conflict of interest between the American worker and those immigrants and that addressing that, is not just fucking RACISM?
Click to expand...

A lot of people don’t like how my Belarusian girlfriends sister husband and two kids just came here. First of all, who knows if they are just here on a visitor visa or green card or if they won the lottery in their country or if it as chain migration But my girl says they are here legally and permanent. Who knows what the truth is.

What I do know is they’re going to get a divorce and no way she has a way to take care of those kids. Is she going to get welfare and Obamacare?

The soon to be ex husband is a truck driver but can’t speak English. But being a truck driver I suspect it won’t be long till he finds a job. But they are poor and can’t speak English? Who let them in? The good thing is they are white and two are female. We need more white women in America 

Will he pay child support? I know the girl is looking for a husband. That won’t be easy with two kids although she is beautiful.

Don’t believe for a second the deep state is going to allow such a shortage of workers. Trump is threatening to deport some illegals this weekend but bfd. Drop in the bucket. Start doing work raids until corporations start letting their illegals go.

Unkotare knows for a fact illegals work for McDonald’s


----------



## Unkotare

sealybobo said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call her my sister in law but she’s my sister in laws sister. ...
Click to expand...


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call her my sister in law but she’s my sister in laws sister. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

From now on to save time I will simply refer to them as sisters. My bros wife is a physical therapist and her sister is the teacher.


----------



## sealybobo

Unkotare said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call her my sister in law but she’s my sister in laws sister. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

My buddies are coming to hang out on the lake. You have any buddies? No chance of that. Have an average day.


----------



## SweetSue92

sealybobo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> 
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I call her my sister in law but she’s my sister in laws sister. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From now on to save time I will simply refer to them as sisters. My bros wife is a physical therapist and her sister is the teacher.
Click to expand...


Newsflash: your brother's wife's sister is not your sister in law


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to even address, the idea that there is an upper limit on how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child?
Click to expand...




Definition of GENERALIZATION


Number two.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.
> 
> Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the power of corporations and their motive for cheap labor and how they use their power to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see that that is a real conflict of interest between the American worker and those immigrants and that addressing that, is not just fucking RACISM?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not racism I agree.
Click to expand...



So stop saying that it is.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look who's back, the guy who thinks trying to learn and achieve is "ruining life," is terrified of people who look in any superficial way different than himself, and that Americans are incapable of competing and winning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.
> 
> Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the power of corporations and their motive for cheap labor and how they use their power to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see that that is a real conflict of interest between the American worker and those immigrants and that addressing that, is not just fucking RACISM?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A lot of people don’t like how my Belarusian girlfriends sister husband and two kids just came here. First of all, who knows if they are just here on a visitor visa or green card or if they won the lottery in their country or if it as chain migration But my girl says they are here legally and permanent. Who knows what the truth is.
> 
> What I do know is they’re going to get a divorce and no way she has a way to take care of those kids. Is she going to get welfare and Obamacare?
> 
> The soon to be ex husband is a truck driver but can’t speak English. But being a truck driver I suspect it won’t be long till he finds a job. But they are poor and can’t speak English? Who let them in? The good thing is they are white and two are female. We need more white women in America
> 
> Will he pay child support? I know the girl is looking for a husband. That won’t be easy with two kids although she is beautiful.
> 
> Don’t believe for a second the deep state is going to allow such a shortage of workers. Trump is threatening to deport some illegals this weekend but bfd. Drop in the bucket. Start doing work raids until corporations start letting their illegals go.
> 
> Unkotare knows for a fact illegals work for McDonald’s
Click to expand...




This is a battle between the Deep State, representing the Political Class and the Rich, 


and the People.



Trump, for whatever reason of his, is the closest the People have to a Representative in this fight. He needs to be supported and pushed in the right direction, and not undermined by bullshit.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to even address, the idea that there is an upper limit on how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of GENERALIZATION
> 
> 
> Number two.
Click to expand...




Which child?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to even address, the idea that there is an upper limit on how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definition of GENERALIZATION
> 
> 
> Number two.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child?
Click to expand...




Your pretense of not understanding the concept of general rules, is not credible, especially as I provided you with a dictionary definition.


My point stands.



Your inability to even address, the idea that there is an upper limit on how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.


----------



## Likkmee

Ass whippins result in higher exam scores


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ... how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.




Which child? Have you ever met a child? You do know that children are individuals, right? All living under different conditions, right? With different goals, obligations, and resources, right? 

One of the many problems with you leftists is that you are incapable of seeing people as individuals.


----------



## westwall

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.







Stands to reason.  The native borns tend to be lazy and have a gross sense of entitlement.  The migrants have just escaped a shithole and want to better themselves.  Good for them, and this is not surprising at all.  Just look at the history of Rome and every other great civilization.  They are eventually supplanted by those who are willing to WORK!


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child? Have you ever met a child? You do know that children are individuals, right? All living under different conditions, right? With different goals, obligations, and resources, right?
> 
> One of the many problems with you leftists is that you are incapable of seeing people as individuals.
Click to expand...




Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups. 


UNderstanding that it is possible to over load a child with work and ruin their life, is sanity. 


Not understanding that, because "individuals" or some such crap, is utter madness.




You are allowing your ideological commitment to competition, to blind you to what the purpose of competition is.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child? Have you ever met a child? You do know that children are individuals, right? All living under different conditions, right? With different goals, obligations, and resources, right?
> 
> One of the many problems with you leftists is that you are incapable of seeing people as individuals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.....
Click to expand...





democrats...


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are allowing your ideological commitment to competition, to blind you to what the purpose of competition is.




The purpose of competition is to win. Striving to do so makes one stronger. You are weak, lazy and afraid, and those are not American qualities.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child? Have you ever met a child? You do know that children are individuals, right? All living under different conditions, right? With different goals, obligations, and resources, right?
> 
> One of the many problems with you leftists is that you are incapable of seeing people as individuals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> democrats...
Click to expand...



Your inability to address my point is noted. 


Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are allowing your ideological commitment to competition, to blind you to what the purpose of competition is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of competition is to win. Striving to do so makes one stronger. You are weak, lazy and afraid, and those are not American qualities.
Click to expand...



Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child? Have you ever met a child? You do know that children are individuals, right? All living under different conditions, right? With different goals, obligations, and resources, right?
> 
> One of the many problems with you leftists is that you are incapable of seeing people as individuals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> democrats...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to address my point is noted.
> 
> 
> Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.
Click to expand...




Why are you doing this to yourself?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are allowing your ideological commitment to competition, to blind you to what the purpose of competition is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of competition is to win. Striving to do so makes one stronger. You are weak, lazy and afraid, and those are not American qualities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.
Click to expand...




I’m not surprised you don’t understand it.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... how much work should be placed on a child, is you forgetting what the goal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which child? Have you ever met a child? You do know that children are individuals, right? All living under different conditions, right? With different goals, obligations, and resources, right?
> 
> One of the many problems with you leftists is that you are incapable of seeing people as individuals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> democrats...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to address my point is noted.
> 
> Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you doing this to yourself?
Click to expand...



An irrational belief in the power of rational debate.



My point stands. 




Seeing people as individuals, does not mean that one cannot also see them as groups.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are allowing your ideological commitment to competition, to blind you to what the purpose of competition is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of competition is to win. Striving to do so makes one stronger. You are weak, lazy and afraid, and those are not American qualities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not surprised you don’t understand it.
Click to expand...



I understood what you said just fine. I am disagreeing with you.


I also know that you know that, so please drop the silly games and address what I said, or admit that you can't.


Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are allowing your ideological commitment to competition, to blind you to what the purpose of competition is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of competition is to win. Striving to do so makes one stronger. You are weak, lazy and afraid, and those are not American qualities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not surprised you don’t understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I understood what you said just fine. I am disagreeing with you.
> 
> 
> I also know that you know that, so please drop the silly games and address what I said, or admit that you can't.
> 
> 
> Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.
Click to expand...



What a pathetic loser. The purpose of competition is to win. Just because you  never have does not change that. Your lazy, flaccid, passive, belly-up attitude is not American.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The graduation rate is pathetic among mexican"immigrants" in the U.S.
> Some of the dumbest MFer's on the planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thats not really the case is it ? Graduation rates are improving all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they say...
> Immigration Reform 2015: More Hispanics In US Schools, But They're Struggling To Keep Up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you find academic study in your second language easy when you were a teenager?
Click to expand...



Never got an answer to this.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesnt it make the world a better place ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's not an answer.
> 
> If you don't know, just say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because education makes the world a better place you shit kicking recidivist. What part is difficult ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you bring in a bunch of "driven" Indians who managed to disproportionately suck up university slots, then it doesn't make the world a better place for the slightly lower scoring Brits who don't get to go to University and end up with lower wages the rest of their lives.
> 
> So, can you answer my fucking question? How does this benefit you brits?
Click to expand...



How does it help to have driven people in society? Hard to believe anyone is spineless enough to be perplexed by this.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
Click to expand...


Here the racist focuses on skin color again.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....




More of your classic ignorant, bigoted bullshit.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are allowing your ideological commitment to competition, to blind you to what the purpose of competition is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of competition is to win. Striving to do so makes one stronger. You are weak, lazy and afraid, and those are not American qualities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not surprised you don’t understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I understood what you said just fine. I am disagreeing with you.
> 
> 
> I also know that you know that, so please drop the silly games and address what I said, or admit that you can't.
> 
> 
> Incorrect. The end of the competition is for some one to win, that is not it's purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What a pathetic loser. The purpose of competition is to win. Just because you  never have does not change that. Your lazy, flaccid, passive, belly-up attitude is not American.
Click to expand...




The purpose of competition is not to win. The goal of competition is to win. The purpose is almost always deeper than that.


You responding to this reasonable point, with insults, ironically, makes you look stupid.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> How?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's not an answer.
> 
> If you don't know, just say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because education makes the world a better place you shit kicking recidivist. What part is difficult ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you bring in a bunch of "driven" Indians who managed to disproportionately suck up university slots, then it doesn't make the world a better place for the slightly lower scoring Brits who don't get to go to University and end up with lower wages the rest of their lives.
> 
> So, can you answer my fucking question? How does this benefit you brits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How does it help to have driven people in society? Hard to believe anyone is spineless enough to be perplexed by this.
Click to expand...



Yet you did not answer.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here the racist focuses on skin color again.
Click to expand...




RacistS, plural, unless you can show that the NSF is actually just one guy, putting  on airs.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More of your classic ignorant, bigoted bullshit.
Click to expand...




Says the teacher that won't admit to any upper limit on work to be dumped on children.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here the racist focuses on skin color again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RacistS, plural, unless you can show that the NSF is actually just one guy, putting  on airs.
Click to expand...


YOU are just one racist.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here the racist focuses on skin color again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RacistS, plural, unless you can show that the NSF is actually just one guy, putting  on airs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU are just one racist.
Click to expand...



We were talking about the NSF. They were the ones focusing on race. I was just asking why.



Why are you attacking me, and not them?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank to god, people managing this country are not stupid like these racist retards...
> 
> Immigrants play increasing role in U.S. science and engineering workforce | NSF - National Science Foundation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here the racist focuses on skin color again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RacistS, plural, unless you can show that the NSF is actually just one guy, putting  on airs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU are just one racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We were talking about the NSF. They were the ones focusing on race. I was just asking why.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you attacking me, and not them?
Click to expand...




You’re the one defining people by color.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the racist focuses on skin color again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RacistS, plural, unless you can show that the NSF is actually just one guy, putting  on airs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU are just one racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> We were talking about the NSF. They were the ones focusing on race. I was just asking why.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you attacking me, and not them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re the one defining people by color.
Click to expand...



Nope. The NSF was doing that, and making a judgement on the workforce "browning" and I asked why they made that judgement. 



No one was able to answer it. 


Some people_* replied*_, but none of the replies, were actual answers. 


if you know what I mean...


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More of your classic ignorant, bigoted bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the teacher that won't admit to any upper limit on work to be dumped on children.
Click to expand...



Which children?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> 
> Why is the "SE" work force turning browner better for this country or our citizens?




People are not colors, racist.


----------



## Unkotare

alpine said:


> ...
> we have to make colleges tuition free...
> 
> 
> And then the same chorus begins
> they are giving out "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"
> "free shit"...




Um...what?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....




Ignorant bigot.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More of your classic ignorant, bigoted bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the teacher that won't admit to any upper limit on work to be dumped on children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which children?
Click to expand...




Group them as you like for your answer.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant bigot.
Click to expand...



Says the man that refuses to admit to any upper limit of work, for children.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says the man that refuses to admit to any upper limit of work, for children.
Click to expand...





Which children?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says the man that refuses to admit to any upper limit of work, for children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which children?
Click to expand...



Children as a general group. THat is how you set policies. D'uh.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says the man that refuses to admit to any upper limit of work, for children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Children as a general group. THat is how you set policies. D'uh.
Click to expand...




People are individuals, comrade.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Says the man that refuses to admit to any upper limit of work, for children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which children?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Children as a general group. THat is how you set policies. D'uh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People are individuals, comrade.
Click to expand...



Yep. And policies can be made with the ability for excepts.


YOU are unable or unwilling to even agree that there is an upper limit to the amount of work to be placed on children.



That is obviously not a viable or reasonable position. 


Let's try to be more concrete. You are a teacher in a school. Your kids are 12 years old. They go to school from 8 am to 3 pm. Most of them have a half hour commute on average, total one hour. 


That is eight hours of the day, used. 


We want them to have at least 9 hours of time a night for sleep.


That is 17 hours of the day, accounted for. our of 24. 


So, how many hours of homework, do you want them to do, keeping in mind that they have only 7 hours unaccounted for so far?


(your answer has to be from 0 to 7, unless you want to sleep deprive them. Which does happen)


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> 
> (your answer has to be from 0 to 7, ...)




No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> (your answer has to be from 0 to 7, ...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.
Click to expand...



So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> (your answer has to be from 0 to 7, ...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?
Click to expand...


Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc. 

Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> (your answer has to be from 0 to 7, ...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc.
> 
> Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.
Click to expand...



It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer. 


But instead, you refuse to answer, generally speaking, or more specifically speaking, or even an single individual anecdotal example.



You refuse to put any limits on the amount of work that could be put on a child, yet viciously attack me, for daring to suggest that too much work could ruin a child's life.



That is not rational of you. You are consumed by blind ideological commitment to MOAR work, without any thought to the cost.


----------



## Frannie

Tommy Tainant said:


> Migrant students ‘more motivated to learn’ - BBC News
> 
> I guess they appreciate education more when they have to struggle to get it.


Indeed migrant kids learn avocado picking way faster than American kids


----------



## sealybobo

Correll said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What he doesn’t realize is his struggles are no more the fault of poor brown people as they are poor whites.
> 
> It may be true that illegals bring down wages but he won’t admit we have an illegal employer problem.
> 
> Since Reagan the corporations have completely taken over the Republican Party. Anytime bill Clinton sold out the middle class was when he went along with republican policies. So democrats are pro corporation too but they also advocate for labor, another thing republicans hate. Ask any of them how they feel about unions.
> 
> The rich have gotten richer every decade and the middle class poorer. Republicans want to cut social security to give the rich more tax breaks.
> 
> Wake up america
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.
> 
> Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the power of corporations and their motive for cheap labor and how they use their power to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see that that is a real conflict of interest between the American worker and those immigrants and that addressing that, is not just fucking RACISM?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not racism I agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So stop saying that it is.
Click to expand...


Trump's comments this weekend.  Racist or not?  Just trying to see how low the bar is set at with you guys.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> (your answer has to be from 0 to 7, ...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc.
> 
> Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer.......
Click to expand...



No, you can't because the answers will be different for each _individual_, comrade. You're never going to justify your ignorant bigotry this way.


----------



## Correll

sealybobo said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ever time you bring up the employers, I agree that we have an employer problem.
> 
> 
> Most of my complaints are about white liberals and/or the policies they push. You saying "brown people" is just race baiting.
> 
> It is insane to doubt for a second that flooding the labor market with cheap third world labor, illegal and legal, does not lower wages. Supply and Demand.
> 
> 
> Seriously. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A REAL DIALOG, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE RACE BAITING.
> 
> 
> FUCKING STOP IT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you this.  The Republican party is run by corporations.  They are going to tell the GOP to increase immigration if wages get too high.  Or, if the poor who are looking for work aren't qualified to fill the good jobs that are unfilled.  Don't expect Walmart workers to ever make a wage that can support a family.  Not if you vote GOP.
> 
> Someone the other day said Michigan alone has 9000 unfilled trade jobs.  So tell me this.  Why don't these companies go to Walmart and recruit 9000 of them to come work at a better paying trade job?  It's because the poorly educated blue collar people who are struggling aren't qualified to do the work.  So this is why the GOP and corporations want more HB1 visa's.  They need to go to other countries to recruit people who are smart enough to do those jobs.
> 
> Remember the only reason ford and GM factory workers made good money was because they were unionized.  Otherwise, none of them were qualified to make the kind of money they were making.  So you keep hoping that Trump will kick out enough illegals that it's going to cause blue collar wages to go up enough to make a difference.  It won't.  ESPECIALLY when they won't go after illegal employers.
> 
> You're being duped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the power of corporations and their motive for cheap labor and how they use their power to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see that that is a real conflict of interest between the American worker and those immigrants and that addressing that, is not just fucking RACISM?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It’s not racism I agree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So stop saying that it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Trump's comments this weekend.  Racist or not?  Just trying to see how low the bar is set at with you guys.
Click to expand...


Which comments are you referring to?


----------



## Correll

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> (your answer has to be from 0 to 7, ...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc.
> 
> Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't because the answers will be different for each _individual_, comrade. You're never going to justify your ignorant bigotry this way.
Click to expand...



You are envisioning a child that has a need to compete on a level that requires him or her to be sleep deprived?

IMO, in such a situation, the SITUATION needs to be changed, rather than the child being sleep deprived.

0 
Regardless, even if you imagine, (or are remembering?) such a situation, your refusal to be able to discuss general rules for children, is a failure on your part, to be serious about the issue.


I once was told by someone else, from a similar perspective to yours, that one hour of homework for one hour of class room teaching was a reasonable limit. This is something you hear from college classes.


It is insane for a child. Such a guideline would end up with a child, as above, having 6 of their 7 hours of "free time" allotted to homework a day, allowing them ONE FUCKING HOUR, for their actual LIFE, such as eating a meal, spending time with their family, or God Forbid PLAYING WITH THEIR FRIENDS.


MOAR!  is not a reasonable policy. It is a panic reaction.


----------



## SweetSue92

sealybobo said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing. It is an empty lefty slogan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...You claim you can barely make ends meet.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never made that claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But it’s true.
> 
> You certainly aren’t on vacation. You wouldn’t be in paradise typing this crap. Lol. I just got off the lake with you know who.
> 
> I asked my brother if his teacher sister in law should only go to Greece every other summer with the kids. He said it’s pretty cheap other than the plane tickets. So $3000 every year make it $5000. I guess it’s worth it. But you don’t have a free vacation home to go to in Greece. Not even a RV. Maybe you have air conditioning but you only run it when it’s 90. Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time she was YOUR sister in law....right. But I know you lie about stuff. And boast and brag like a 14 year old.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Eventually your teacher pension will get cut. I’m sure your benefits already have. I’m sure you’re paying more for healthcare than before.
> 
> I can’t wait. I hope you are in a two income family. Probably.
Click to expand...


Yes I know you're a very, very small person already bobo--a person who brags about his boat, his salary, his women (supposedly) and his nephew's private school....a person who takes pleasure that other people would struggle.

I already knew this about you. You're a small person. Many people here know this about you.


----------



## SweetSue92

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc.
> 
> Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't because the answers will be different for each _individual_, comrade. You're never going to justify your ignorant bigotry this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are envisioning a child that has a need to compete on a level that requires him or her to be sleep deprived?
> 
> IMO, in such a situation, the SITUATION needs to be changed, rather than the child being sleep deprived.
> 
> 0
> Regardless, even if you imagine, (or are remembering?) such a situation, your refusal to be able to discuss general rules for children, is a failure on your part, to be serious about the issue.
> 
> 
> I once was told by someone else, from a similar perspective to yours, that one hour of homework for one hour of class room teaching was a reasonable limit. This is something you hear from college classes.
> 
> 
> It is insane for a child. Such a guideline would end up with a child, as above, having 6 of their 7 hours of "free time" allotted to homework a day, allowing them ONE FUCKING HOUR, for their actual LIFE, such as eating a meal, spending time with their family, or God Forbid PLAYING WITH THEIR FRIENDS.
> 
> 
> MOAR!  is not a reasonable policy. It is a panic reaction.
Click to expand...


Seems like there's been an ongoing discussion about this for some pages.

American schools are screwed up in lots of ways. I had a discussion with a grandfather raising a young granddaughter in the Philippines. She is starting Kindergarten. Started not knowing her letters or sounds at all. But had been to preschool, see. Now in K, is already knowing her letters and sounds, LOVES schools, etc. 

We are so messed up in the US in some ways that now we want kids starting K knowing all letters and sounds and reading independently by the end of Kind--in my state "for thirty minutes at a time". (!!!) So we burn them out. When they are five, _*their work is play*_. In the US we have this messed up notion that "play" is a dirty word. We don't let them play, so they hate school, so they don't want to learn. 

So when they're twelve, they're already behind, dragging, hate school, hate homework--all of it. If we let kids have their childhood when they are young children, we wouldn't have half these problems.

But we don't. A lot of these problems are right on the shoulders of my fellow conservatives, who think "rigor" is kinders reading independently for "thirty minutes at a time".

(Does anyone KNOW any five year old boys??? hello???)


----------



## Correll

SweetSue92 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc.
> 
> Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't because the answers will be different for each _individual_, comrade. You're never going to justify your ignorant bigotry this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are envisioning a child that has a need to compete on a level that requires him or her to be sleep deprived?
> 
> IMO, in such a situation, the SITUATION needs to be changed, rather than the child being sleep deprived.
> 
> 0
> Regardless, even if you imagine, (or are remembering?) such a situation, your refusal to be able to discuss general rules for children, is a failure on your part, to be serious about the issue.
> 
> 
> I once was told by someone else, from a similar perspective to yours, that one hour of homework for one hour of class room teaching was a reasonable limit. This is something you hear from college classes.
> 
> 
> It is insane for a child. Such a guideline would end up with a child, as above, having 6 of their 7 hours of "free time" allotted to homework a day, allowing them ONE FUCKING HOUR, for their actual LIFE, such as eating a meal, spending time with their family, or God Forbid PLAYING WITH THEIR FRIENDS.
> 
> 
> MOAR!  is not a reasonable policy. It is a panic reaction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems like there's been an ongoing discussion about this for some pages.
> 
> American schools are screwed up in lots of ways. I had a discussion with a grandfather raising a young granddaughter in the Philippines. She is starting Kindergarten. Started not knowing her letters or sounds at all. But had been to preschool, see. Now in K, is already knowing her letters and sounds, LOVES schools, etc.
> 
> We are so messed up in the US in some ways that now we want kids starting K knowing all letters and sounds and reading independently by the end of Kind--in my state "for thirty minutes at a time". (!!!) So we burn them out. When they are five, _*their work is play*_. In the US we have this messed up notion that "play" is a dirty word. We don't let them play, so they hate school, so they don't want to learn.
> 
> So when they're twelve, they're already behind, dragging, hate school, hate homework--all of it. If we let kids have their childhood when they are young children, we wouldn't have half these problems.
> 
> But we don't. A lot of these problems are right on the shoulders of my fellow conservatives, who think "rigor" is kinders reading independently for "thirty minutes at a time".
> 
> (Does anyone KNOW any five year old boys??? hello???)
Click to expand...



THANK YOU. 


I agree. 


IMO, we were scared when we saw other nations catching up, and we panicked. 


And we piled on the work, trying to be more like Japan. 


And it has not worked, and quite possibly has made things worse.


It is not helpful or productive to pile homework on children.


----------



## SweetSue92

Correll said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc.
> 
> Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't because the answers will be different for each _individual_, comrade. You're never going to justify your ignorant bigotry this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are envisioning a child that has a need to compete on a level that requires him or her to be sleep deprived?
> 
> IMO, in such a situation, the SITUATION needs to be changed, rather than the child being sleep deprived.
> 
> 0
> Regardless, even if you imagine, (or are remembering?) such a situation, your refusal to be able to discuss general rules for children, is a failure on your part, to be serious about the issue.
> 
> 
> I once was told by someone else, from a similar perspective to yours, that one hour of homework for one hour of class room teaching was a reasonable limit. This is something you hear from college classes.
> 
> 
> It is insane for a child. Such a guideline would end up with a child, as above, having 6 of their 7 hours of "free time" allotted to homework a day, allowing them ONE FUCKING HOUR, for their actual LIFE, such as eating a meal, spending time with their family, or God Forbid PLAYING WITH THEIR FRIENDS.
> 
> 
> MOAR!  is not a reasonable policy. It is a panic reaction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems like there's been an ongoing discussion about this for some pages.
> 
> American schools are screwed up in lots of ways. I had a discussion with a grandfather raising a young granddaughter in the Philippines. She is starting Kindergarten. Started not knowing her letters or sounds at all. But had been to preschool, see. Now in K, is already knowing her letters and sounds, LOVES schools, etc.
> 
> We are so messed up in the US in some ways that now we want kids starting K knowing all letters and sounds and reading independently by the end of Kind--in my state "for thirty minutes at a time". (!!!) So we burn them out. When they are five, _*their work is play*_. In the US we have this messed up notion that "play" is a dirty word. We don't let them play, so they hate school, so they don't want to learn.
> 
> So when they're twelve, they're already behind, dragging, hate school, hate homework--all of it. If we let kids have their childhood when they are young children, we wouldn't have half these problems.
> 
> But we don't. A lot of these problems are right on the shoulders of my fellow conservatives, who think "rigor" is kinders reading independently for "thirty minutes at a time".
> 
> (Does anyone KNOW any five year old boys??? hello???)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> IMO, we were scared when we saw other nations catching up, and we panicked.
> 
> 
> And we piled on the work, trying to be more like Japan.
> 
> 
> And it has not worked, and quite possibly has made things worse.
> 
> 
> It is not helpful or productive to pile homework on children.
Click to expand...


Certainly not in our culture as it stands now, no. People talk about income inequality, but there is really a parenting inequality in our culture. We have a lot of neglect/abuse.....and a lot of entitlement. Not a lot of middle ground it seems to me.


----------



## Correll

SweetSue92 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't because the answers will be different for each _individual_, comrade. You're never going to justify your ignorant bigotry this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are envisioning a child that has a need to compete on a level that requires him or her to be sleep deprived?
> 
> IMO, in such a situation, the SITUATION needs to be changed, rather than the child being sleep deprived.
> 
> 0
> Regardless, even if you imagine, (or are remembering?) such a situation, your refusal to be able to discuss general rules for children, is a failure on your part, to be serious about the issue.
> 
> 
> I once was told by someone else, from a similar perspective to yours, that one hour of homework for one hour of class room teaching was a reasonable limit. This is something you hear from college classes.
> 
> 
> It is insane for a child. Such a guideline would end up with a child, as above, having 6 of their 7 hours of "free time" allotted to homework a day, allowing them ONE FUCKING HOUR, for their actual LIFE, such as eating a meal, spending time with their family, or God Forbid PLAYING WITH THEIR FRIENDS.
> 
> 
> MOAR!  is not a reasonable policy. It is a panic reaction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seems like there's been an ongoing discussion about this for some pages.
> 
> American schools are screwed up in lots of ways. I had a discussion with a grandfather raising a young granddaughter in the Philippines. She is starting Kindergarten. Started not knowing her letters or sounds at all. But had been to preschool, see. Now in K, is already knowing her letters and sounds, LOVES schools, etc.
> 
> We are so messed up in the US in some ways that now we want kids starting K knowing all letters and sounds and reading independently by the end of Kind--in my state "for thirty minutes at a time". (!!!) So we burn them out. When they are five, _*their work is play*_. In the US we have this messed up notion that "play" is a dirty word. We don't let them play, so they hate school, so they don't want to learn.
> 
> So when they're twelve, they're already behind, dragging, hate school, hate homework--all of it. If we let kids have their childhood when they are young children, we wouldn't have half these problems.
> 
> But we don't. A lot of these problems are right on the shoulders of my fellow conservatives, who think "rigor" is kinders reading independently for "thirty minutes at a time".
> 
> (Does anyone KNOW any five year old boys??? hello???)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> THANK YOU.
> 
> 
> I agree.
> 
> 
> IMO, we were scared when we saw other nations catching up, and we panicked.
> 
> 
> And we piled on the work, trying to be more like Japan.
> 
> 
> And it has not worked, and quite possibly has made things worse.
> 
> 
> It is not helpful or productive to pile homework on children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Certainly not in our culture as it stands now, no. People talk about income inequality, but there is really a parenting inequality in our culture. We have a lot of neglect/abuse.....and a lot of entitlement. Not a lot of middle ground it seems to me.
Click to expand...



It is a huge problem/issue, that we will really struggle with to address.


MOAR is not a policy. At least not a good one.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> (your answer has to be from 0 to 7, ...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it doesn't. Any answer would be different for each individual student, and would depend on their circumstances, goals, ambitions, and abilities. Your focus isn't on achieving one's full potential, but making sure everyone can be lazy enough to make you feel less badly about yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So, for some kids you would recommend depriving of them of sleep, in order to spend more than 7 hours a day on homework?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which kids? Where do they live? What is their family situation? What school do they attend? What are their goals? What are their abilities and aptitudes? What are their goals? What factors are likely to advance or impede those goals? Etc, etc.
> 
> Sorry comrade dimwit, it's just not as simple as you want it to be to justify your own shortcomings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It was an open ended question. You can fill those in in your answer.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, you can't because the answers will be different for each _individual_, comrade. You're never going to justify your ignorant bigotry this way.
Click to expand...

.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> 
> And we piled on the work, trying to be more like Japan.....




Which we have established you know nothing about. You have never been in a school in Japan, have never set foot in Japan, and do not know any Japanese families well enough to make any such judgement about "ruined lives."


----------



## Unkotare

If one looks at the countries that public education in some parts of America is compared to unfavorably, it is absurd to imagine the problem is American kids don't work hard enough.

Again, every child is an individual with individual circumstances, abilities, and goals. We don't need the Central People's Committee on Child Engineering to set a uniform standard for everything about a child's development because some historically ignorant fools want the state to supplant the family. 

Adults who are lazy slacker losers feeling threatened by the idea of other people being more diligent and committed than they are should not be the model for American students. Euro-style passive dead weight who view any work as something to be avoided as much as possible instead of being a defining part of an individual's identity are not the kind of people we need to make America strong.


----------



## Unkotare

Correll said:


> ...
> 
> I don't WANT Americans to have to torture their children the way the freaking Japanese do....




There is no justification for this kind of ignorant bigotry.


----------

