# BREAKING: 200+ Militarized Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada



## Lovebears65 (Apr 9, 2014)

BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada


> Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> 
> For over twenty years now, a battle has raged between cattle rancher Cliven Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management.  Bundy has been using federal land to allow his cattle to graze, and the BLM has argued that this is trespassing because the land is protected and because Bundy has not paid required grazing fees.



Wonder if they will kill him like  Clinton killed the people in Waco and  Ruby ridge


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## Pennywise (Apr 9, 2014)

But did Barrack Obama pick the final four?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.


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## Lovebears65 (Apr 9, 2014)

WTF we can activate the feds for a god damn tortoise but not keep our borders protected? This crap is getting stupid


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## Lovebears65 (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.



so the children that died were not peaceful


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## Pennywise (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



I don't know wtf to think about Waco anymore. It was a powder keg, Koresh was a head case and a pedophile, and the US government has too much power.

No winners. The only victims were the kids.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



Oh my goodness!  All this for a few tortoise turtles?  Seriously?!  This comment from him is very telling.......

Bundys feel that this is an assault on liberty, state sovereignty, and property rights;

Weve tried to do this through the legal and weve tried to do it through the political, and what were at right now, I guess were going to have to try to stand, Cliven Bundy said. We the people have to stand on the ground and get our state sovereignty back, and also take some liberty and freedoms back to where we have at least access to this land.

The story is a lot about the cattle, but the bigger story is about our loss of freedom, Carol Bundy added. They have come and taken over this whole corner of the county. Theyve taken over policing power, theyve taken over our freedom, and theyre stealing cattle.

And our sheriff says he just doesnt have authority, our governor says he doesnt have authority, and were saying, why are we a state?

Im a producer, Cliven Bundy said. I produce edible commodity from the desert forage, and all of these things are governed under state law. So, in other words, this type of government has eliminated all of our state law, eliminated our state sovereignty, and has took control over our public lands and even took control over our Clark County sheriff. Theyve taken the whole county over. The whole state, almost.

This is just about power of the government, Carol Bundy said.

 I think something is seriously wrong with our govt using military force on a private civilian!  Very disturbing story!  Incredible that the Governor cannot do anything about this!


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



The murderers who hid behind them and refused to let them leave have their blood on their hands.

any story that laments those "peaceful American Citizens" who murdered men women and children and then blamed it on law enforcement is written by a piece of shit liar.

Period.

Why would I read any further?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

April is the month for Luciferian Illuminati elitists.  The history on month of April has earned it the name "cursed month".   I wonder if they had this slated for their holidays?  They need that blood sacrifice for their god you know.... There has always been horrific bloodshed in the month of April - far greater than any other month.   Throughout history...  This month of April..... We have already seen the Ft. Hood shooting, now this...  April 19 & 20th are the high holy days for these Lucifereans.. and the "other" big one on May 1st.  Looks like they may be getting an early start.

http://voices.yahoo.com/april-bloody-april-waco-tragedy-oklahoma-city-bombing-309614.html

Lovebears, Waco Massacre happened on April 19th, the Luciferean high holy day that requires blood sacrifice.  I've been watching for this date to come and go because I have a feeling they have something big planned this time.  This could be it.  We'll see.  These elitists have great power and control what is happening in America to a greater degree then we fully realize yet.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

April 19, 1993 - Waco Tragedy

The 51-day Branch Davidian standoff, with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Fire Arms and Explosives, in Waco, Texas ends in the fiery death of approximately 76 people, including 27 children.


April 19, 1995 - Oklahoma City Bombing

The deadly bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, a government building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma took place killing 168 people and injuring over 800 more.

For more information on this date in history, visit April 19

April 20, 1999 - Columbine School Shooting

Two deranged students stalk classmates and teachers killing twelve students and one teacher before killing themselves at the Columbine High School in Colorado.

For more information on this date in history, visit April 20

April 16, 2007 - VA Tech Massacre

Crazed lunatic kills two students in the early hours of the morning and then goes across the campus of VA Tech to kill 30 more students and wound nearly 30 more.

For more information on this date in history, visit April 16

The Bloody Month of April

Wars that began during the month of April are:

The American Revolution (1775)

The American Civil War (1861)

The Armenian Genocide (1914)

The Bosnian War (1992)

The Rwandan Genocide (1994)

Assassinations during the month of April:

President Abraham Lincoln (1865)

Martin Luther King Jr (1968)

These are just the tip of the iceberg. Visit the link below, click on each day of the month of April and read what has occurred during this bloody month.



http://voices.yahoo.com/april-bloody-april-waco-tragedy-oklahoma-city-bombing-309614.html?cat=7

The Illuminati goes back to the very beginning of our nations history.   They are satanists.  The first Illuminati / Satanist family to arrive in America were the Collins family.   Some changed their name to Todd.  You'll note quite a few in politics, Hollywood films, the occult / horror films, Look up John Collins - there is quite a history there and these dates have been their high holy days for hundreds of years.


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## chikenwing (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Lovebears65 said:
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> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
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Ya its hard to read,while your pulling that brown shirt over your head right?

The feds screwed up real badly denying that,put you right with them,just another authoritarian jerk


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## chikenwing (Apr 9, 2014)

The murderers who hid behind them and refused to let them leave have their blood on their hands.

So you were there? you saw with your own eyes?heard with your own ears?


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 9, 2014)

Funny how Koresch was not accused of pedophile UNTIL the feds needed an excuse for their botched raid on his compound. Funny how the ATF fabricated reasons to raid the compound. Funny how not a single bullet hole was found coming FROM the compound on the cars in the lot out front and in the door from the main building. Funny how when the Congress went to investigate the door vanished.

What is real funny is how the FBI KNEW the compound was laced with gasoline in every building, wooden buildings, and yet they sent in two tanks with tear gas to set said buildings on fire.

The deaths at the compound rest solely with the FBI. There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave, no one had fired out of the buildings. There was no threat to the community or the FBI.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> April 19, 1993 - Waco Tragedy
> 
> The 51-day Branch Davidian standoff, with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Fire Arms and Explosives, in Waco, Texas ends in the fiery death of approximately 76 people, including 27 children.
> 
> ...



OK - now I get it.

Have a nice day and enjoy your meds.


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## Pennywise (Apr 9, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Funny how Koresch was not accused of pedophile UNTIL the feds needed an excuse for their botched raid on his compound. Funny how the ATF fabricated reasons to raid the compound. Funny how not a single bullet hole was found coming FROM the compound on the cars in the lot out front and in the door from the main building. Funny how when the Congress went to investigate the door vanished.
> 
> What is real funny is how the FBI KNEW the compound was laced with gasoline in every building, wooden buildings, and yet they sent in two tanks with tear gas to set said buildings on fire.
> 
> The deaths at the compound rest solely with the FBI. There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave, no one had fired out of the buildings. There was no threat to the community or the FBI.



Actually I heard some of the people who fled make those accusations. The guns were enough excuse for the raid.

You are crazy if you think Koresh and crew had no responsibility. I am not saying the Feds were right, but the entire fiasco was a tragic mess with no easy answers.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Funny how people will defend murders and try to re-cast them as victims in an effort to push a political agenda.

Well ..... actually, it's sad.


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## RetiredGySgt (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Funny how people will defend murders and try to re-cast them as victims in an effort to push a political agenda.
> 
> Well ..... actually, it's sad.



There was a video of the botched raid, I saw it before it magically disappeared. The dead ATF agents enter through a window on the 2nd floor followed almost immediately by the 4th member still on the roof spraying automatic gun fire into said window.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > April 19, 1993 - Waco Tragedy
> ...



I'm not on any meds nor do I need them.    I am having a nice day and let me be clear in stating that I don't know whether this would be connected to the Illuminati or not.  Waco was considered by many a planned event and the date for the murder of some 76 men, women and children wasn't a random selection to them. ( April 19th)   I am merely paying attention to these days - April 19, 20, May 1st if nothing happens and everyone is safe and sound we can just assume the Illuminati - Luciferean holy days for human sacrifice are a relic of the past.  How does that work for you?


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## bodecea (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



The leaders at Waco, David Koresh, were responsible of the deaths of the children...they could have let them go or else surrendered at any time.


As for this rancher....you approve of someone not paying for what they get from the government?   A free-loader you applaud?


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## bodecea (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> ...



Property rights?   It's NOT his property he is grazing on.   Don't you think the property owners (the Federal government) has the right to make the policies about their own land?


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## Politico (Apr 9, 2014)

I see our comedy team have their foil hats on early today.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Funny how people will defend murders and try to re-cast them as victims in an effort to push a political agenda.
> 
> Well ..... actually, it's sad.



Some people believe the people at Waco were the victims because the FBI wasn't under any kind of threat.  I did not ever see the videos of Waco and have not researched the story.  I do find it interesting that it has the appearance of a stand off such as Waco and that today is April 9th.  Where is FOX News?  CNN?  ABC?  CBS?  Anyone?   Why the blackout of news on this story.  I remember Waco even though I wasn't watching it.  It was non stop television coverage from morning til night.  What has changed? Listen......

  If the military come to their senses and leave the rancher alone and everything goes back to normal I won't give it another thought.  ( Waco anniversary  April 19th )


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## bendog (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how people will defend murders and try to re-cast them as victims in an effort to push a political agenda.
> ...



ruby ridge was just wrong.  There's no defense for what the FBI did.

Waco?  shots were fired at law enforceemtn, which led to the siege.  The Feds feared for the kids, maybe wrongly, but in good faith.  But they screwed up in assaulting the place.

the Rancher?  He's mad the fed govt has regulations covering his use of federal land.  Cry me a river.


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## bodecea (Apr 9, 2014)

How about those kids in the day care in the Oklahoma Federal Building?   Timothy McVeigh was taking "revenge" for Waco and killed all those children and all the others in that building who died.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

Ted Gunderson believes there was someone else behind the Oklahoma Federal Building.  ( Gunderson was FBI Chief for 27 years with a sterling reputation )    His report on the bombing is in the Gunderson files.  Look it up, Bodie.  People who were conveniently not there at the time of the bombing, etc.   Who knows.   Alot of speculation about the Oklahoma bombing and who was behind it.  I do not believe anyone will know the full extent of the corruption and evil deals made inside America until we leave this earth.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

If there are really 200 militarized federal police - military equip surrounding this rancher and his cattle over some tortoise it should be on the television.  I think we can all agree this story warrants a news report on a major news station.  Why it isn't being reported should concern us all.  That is my final 2 cents on this story.


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## chikenwing (Apr 9, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
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You mean the public's  land right?? The base line problem in plain view.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how people will defend murders and try to re-cast them as victims in an effort to push a political agenda.
> ...



It hasn't disappeared, I've seen it.

I'm sorry that those murders chose to hide behind women and children like the sniveling cowards that were.


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## chikenwing (Apr 9, 2014)

bodecea said:


> How about those kids in the day care in the Oklahoma Federal Building?   Timothy McVeigh was taking "revenge" for Waco and killed all those children and all the others in that building who died.



What about them,different case ,no reliance,other than a nut case raging against a perceived over bearing Gov.


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## chikenwing (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
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So you were there right? The cowards were the feds,knocking on the front door while coming in the back locked and loaded,they fucked that up from the very 1st moment.

Why do our fellow citizenry happily praise an over bearing Gov??


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Jeremiah said:
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> > Lovebears65 said:
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Um, its not the federal governments land it is "public land" ( his, yours, mine) which the government decided they were going to make public lands far after the cows had been grazing there, BLM changed the rules and he feels they did not have the right to tell him how he could use public lands.  

I get he is not paying his bill to the BLM but he was quite clear he would pay his town and not the BLM, he states the Feds had no reason to come in and claim the land not be used in the manner it had been. Strange thing, if he paid them he would be allowed to use the land.

The thing I find strange about that is if he paid them verses not paying what effect would that have on the turtles, the reason why the feds started to demand payment? Either way the cows would be grazing, yes? Either way the turtles would still be affected by cows grazing. So why demand payment to allow the cows to graze? That makes no sense to me.

Surrounding his land with armed men, snipers, etc. because cows are grazing seems far over the flppin top. Paying millions to have a company come in and take his cows is also ridiculous. Millions more for snipers and armed men to surround his farm over cows is silly. 

Why not use the funds above to build a fence?

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25168654/i-team-feds-and-nevada-rancher-facing-off-over-public-lands


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> nodoginnafight said:
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> > RetiredGySgt said:
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Yeah, sure they did - they slammed their bodies into those murderers' bullets. The scum.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

> Strange thing, if he paid them he would be allowed to use the land.


Gee, funny how that works


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## Steven_R (Apr 9, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Funny how Koresch was not accused of pedophile UNTIL the feds needed an excuse for their botched raid on his compound. Funny how the ATF fabricated reasons to raid the compound. Funny how not a single bullet hole was found coming FROM the compound on the cars in the lot out front and in the door from the main building. Funny how when the Congress went to investigate the door vanished.
> 
> What is real funny is how the FBI KNEW the compound was laced with gasoline in every building, wooden buildings, and yet they sent in two tanks with tear gas to set said buildings on fire.
> 
> The deaths at the compound rest solely with the FBI. There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave, no one had fired out of the buildings. There was no threat to the community or the FBI.



Which part of the BATF's charter or area of responsibilities dealt with child welfare again?

And for the record, Ruby Ridge was in 1992 which means it was during GHWB's time in office. Clinton can eat Waco, but his hands are clean as far as Ruby Ridge is concerned. I don't particularly like Clinton, but let's give credit where credit is due.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

> There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave,



So as long as you stay home after you murder someone .... you're in the clear ????


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > Strange thing, if he paid them he would be allowed to use the land.
> 
> 
> Gee, funny how that works



The point was, the turtles would be affected with or without payment, yes? 

Either way if the feds got their dollars for his cows grazing on 'public land" the turtles would still have less grass to eat, the reason the feds are stating they need payment and closed the land off from grazing.


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## buckeye45_73 (Apr 9, 2014)

bodecea said:


> How about those kids in the day care in the Oklahoma Federal Building? Timothy McVeigh was taking "revenge" for Waco and killed all those children and all the others in that building who died.


 

 who's sticking up for that bombing?


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## Plasmaball (Apr 9, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how people will defend murders and try to re-cast them as victims in an effort to push a political agenda.
> ...



loosen that tinfoil


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## American4Americ (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> April is the month for Luciferian Illuminati elitists.  The history on month of April has earned it the name "cursed month".   I wonder if they had this slated for their holidays?  They need that blood sacrifice for their god you know.... There has always been horrific bloodshed in the month of April - far greater than any other month.   Throughout history...  This month of April..... We have already seen the Ft. Hood shooting, now this...  April 19 & 20th are the high holy days for these Lucifereans.. and the "other" big one on May 1st.  Looks like they may be getting an early start.
> 
> April, Bloody April: Waco Tragedy, Oklahoma City Bombing, Columbine School Shooting and VA Tech Massacre - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com
> 
> Lovebears, Waco Massacre happened on April 19th, the Luciferean high holy day that requires blood sacrifice.  I've been watching for this date to come and go because I have a feeling they have something big planned this time.  This could be it.  We'll see.  These elitists have great power and control what is happening in America to a greater degree then we fully realize yet.



The things I read on this website...


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## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



Ruby Ridge was under Bush Sr


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

> he point was, the turtles would be affected with or without payment, yes?



No, the point is - why does someone feel like he has the right to use MY land without giving me anything in return?


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## Connery (Apr 9, 2014)

The cattleman should pay up. 

"Bundy is battling with federal officials over his cattle's grazing on 150 square miles of scrub desert overseen by the Bureau of Land Management. He has refused to pay BLM grazing fees since 1993, arguing in court filings that his Mormon ancestors worked the land long before the BLM was formed, giving him rights that predate federal involvement. His back fees exceed $300,000, he says."

BLM seizes cattle in range war with stubborn Nevada rancher - latimes.com


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## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> ...



What's disturbing is they wanted him to pay for the privilege of grazing his cattle where they'd been grazing for free for years, but when he refused to pay, suddenly it was about the turtles.


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## Steven_R (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > he point was, the turtles would be affected with or without payment, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> No, the point is - why does someone feel like he has the right to use MY land without giving me anything in return?



Why is it our land? Which part of the Constitution authorized the feds to actually own any land outside of DC and federal facilities?


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## TruthSeeker56 (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



While 200+ "militarized" federal police are taking aim at a Nevada rancher who is allowing his cattle to graze on federal land.................... 

MILLIONS of illegal aliens are roaming the United States, committing crimes, sucking up all means of public assistance, taking jobs away from REAL Americans, etc.

What a shameless, misguided country we allow ourselves to live in.


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > he point was, the turtles would be affected with or without payment, yes?
> 
> 
> 
> No, the point is - why does someone feel like he has the right to use MY land without giving me anything in return?



Its HIS land too, yes?


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## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8908471 said:
			
		

> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > he point was, the turtles would be affected with or without payment, yes?
> ...



Yes, and his families cattle have been grazing on that land for free for generations.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
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I've seen the video of the agents entering .... I wonder why anyone would make up lies to defend murderers. Aren't these the same people that keep trying to spark a civil war? Maybe they are lying to get people all worked up and support their civil war plans.

McVeigh bought into their crap. How'd that work out?

Trying to incite people (people who are too stupid to check out your lies) into terrorism  .... wow ... now that's the American way, huh?


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## TruthSeeker56 (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but Ruby Ridge was in 1992, during the Bush 41 administration.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8908471 said:
			
		

> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > he point was, the turtles would be affected with or without payment, yes?
> ...



Yup and he's getting something out of it isn't he? What am I getting out of my land?


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> CaféAuLait;8908471 said:
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Indeed. 

The only reason the feds took it over was because of the turtles, which would be affected with or without payment. 

He also stated he would be more than willing to pay his county and not the feds because he does not believe the feds had any right to stop his cows from grazing because of the turtles.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

> Yes, and his families cattle have been grazing on that land for free for generations.


Then he and his family owe me a lot of money.


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## Connery (Apr 9, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8908492 said:
			
		

> Againsheila said:
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> > CaféAuLait;8908471 said:
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If he is willing to pay the county it is not such a big deal to change the payee.


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## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > Yes, and his families cattle have been grazing on that land for free for generations.
> 
> 
> Then he and his family owe me a lot of money.



They only brought in the fee because of the turtles and it makes no sense whatsoever.  If the turtles are in danger then cattle shouldn't be grazing there, it should not be dependent on a fee.


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> CaféAuLait;8908471 said:
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Given you can visit Gold Butte for FREE and stay there and walk all over the place, camp in tents "unregulated", I suppose you would get a camping trip or a scenic drive. So that's what you get out of "your" land. 

Gold Butte Region - Area Overview


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > Yes, and his families cattle have been grazing on that land for free for generations.
> ...



Doesn't matter. What makes this free loader think he can use everybody else's land without giving something in return?

We let his family stay on the gravy train and feed from the public trough for several generations. He should be sending us all a thank you note. But instead, when we ask that little welfare freak to do a little something for himself ... he starts squealing like a jilted hairdresser.

Screw him.


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

Connery said:


> CaféAuLait;8908492 said:
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Yeah, I agree, I think he is standing by the principal of the thing, why the feds felt they had the right to encroach on lands which had been used in that manner for years over turtles. The same which would be effected with or without payment. I think he is being stubborn but I kinda see where he is coming from.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8908537 said:
			
		

> nodoginnafight said:
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> > CaféAuLait;8908471 said:
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What am I getting out of letting HIM use everyone's land for his commercial enterprise?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

> eah, I agree, I think he is standing by the principal of the thing,



He's a whining little taker. 
Like any of us can just say I'm not going to pay the person I owe, I'll pay someone else who I like better?????

Little free loader has been feeding from the public trough so long he thinks he DESERVES the freebies.


----------



## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > Yes, and his families cattle have been grazing on that land for free for generations.
> 
> 
> Then he and his family owe me a lot of money.



For what? You too can camp for free, walk all over the place for free, hike and do whatever you wish unregulated for free. Its free to gain access to Gold Butte.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 9, 2014)

Connery said:


> The cattleman should pay up.
> 
> "Bundy is battling with federal officials over his cattle's grazing on 150 square miles of scrub desert overseen by the Bureau of Land Management. He has refused to pay BLM grazing fees since 1993, arguing in court filings that his Mormon ancestors worked the land long before the BLM was formed, giving him rights that predate federal involvement. His back fees exceed $300,000, he says."
> 
> BLM seizes cattle in range war with stubborn Nevada rancher - latimes.com



Damn freeloader.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> I don't know wtf to think about Waco anymore. It was a powder keg, Koresh was a head case and a pedophile, and the US government has too much power.
> 
> No winners. The only victims were the kids.



Koresh was indeed a nutjob - but there is utterly zero evidence of any sort of child abuse - neither sexual or physical. Child Protective services had inspected the compound 7 times and found nothing. Oh and note, they along with the Sheriff were permitted access, on each of those 7 occasions, even taking Koresh into custody once, releasing him due to no evidence a day later,

Gee, maybe if the fuckwads of the BATF hadn't gone in guns blazing..... It's funny, you go to a compound and start killing people, and they get all bent out of shape and start shooting back...


----------



## bodecea (Apr 9, 2014)

Steven_R said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > he point was, the turtles would be affected with or without payment, yes?
> ...



It's part of the Mexican Cession....do you want it to go back to Mexico who had it beforehand?


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8908571 said:
			
		

> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > Yes, and his families cattle have been grazing on that land for free for generations.
> ...



Really ... you saying that I am free to put my taco stand there? Or an abortion clinic?

I'm free to use that place for MY commercial enterprise?


----------



## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> CaféAuLait;8908537 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is he getting out of you enjoying the park, camping there, hiking there, etc? Should he expect you and others to pay him for your enjoyment of his land?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > eah, I agree, I think he is standing by the principal of the thing,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wrong.  The federal Government has been feeding from the public trough for so long they think they own it.  And us too.  That is the problem here.  Time to dial you in to what time it is, Dog.  ( ignorance is not bliss ) 

-J.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

> It's funny, you go to a compound and start killing people,



If they start killing you first - damn straight.


----------



## guno (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> April 19, 1993 - Waco Tragedy
> 
> 
> The Illuminati goes back to the very beginning of our nations history.   They are satanists.  The first Illuminati / Satanist family to arrive in America were the Collins family.   Some changed their name to Todd.  You'll note quite a few in politics, Hollywood films, the occult / horror films, Look up John Collins - there is quite a history there and these dates have been their high holy days for hundreds of years.



You are mentally ill, i really hope you are in treatment for your delusions


Schaeffer: 

Either these are racists looking for any excuse to level the next accusation or theyre beyond crazy. And I think beyond crazy is a better explanation and that evangelical subculture has rotted the brain of the United States of America. We have a big slice of our population waiting for Jesus to come back. They look forward to Armageddon. Good news is bad news to them. We talk about the Left Behind series of books that I talk about in my book Crazy for God. They think that whether its economic news or news from the Middle East, it all has to do with the end of time and Christs return.
This is la-la land, and the Republican part is totally enthralled to this subculture


----------



## JakeStarkey (Apr 9, 2014)

*BREAKING: 200+ Militarized Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada *

The "peaceful rancher" has not paid grazing fees to the US government for twenty years, argues federal land is really state land, and made threats to do whatever it took to prevent the feds from rounding up his stock.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8908582 said:
			
		

> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > CaféAuLait;8908537 said:
> ...



I'm calling it now.  That was checkmate.  Good show, Cafe'AuLait.  I'm impressed.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > eah, I agree, I think he is standing by the principal of the thing,
> ...



Yeah yeah - This guy thinks he has a right to use everyone's land for his commercial enterprise without giving anything in return. Yeah, I'd prefer he just send the check straight to me - but how practical is it for him to write 200 million checks? The feds are the only logical collectors.

Pay up or get your crap off my land.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> Actually I heard some of the people who fled make those accusations. The guns were enough excuse for the raid.
> 
> You are crazy if you think Koresh and crew had no responsibility. I am not saying the Feds were right, but the entire fiasco was a tragic mess with no easy answers.



You haven't done your homework.

There was an embedded FBI agent in the compound, who had failed to produce any illegal weapons over the course of 18 months. The BATF attack was based on a perjured warrant and founded on the frustration of the feds over failing to produce any indictable evidence.

There was nothing peaceful about the Davidians, they were ultimately a doomsday cult. Even so, the murders committed were perpetrated by the BATF. The Davidians were exercising legitimate self-defense. If Stormtroopers assault your home using military tactics, you have every right to shoot them down as the scumbag dogs they are.  The BAF were and are a gang of thugs who belong in the Third Reich, not in America.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > It's funny, you go to a compound and start killing people,
> 
> 
> 
> If they start killing you first - damn straight.




Somebody tries to sneak in my 2nd floor bedroom window and I have a gun, I'm gonna shoot too.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

Newsflash! To Nodoginfight.  Your dog lost.   Better luck next time.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > It's funny, you go to a compound and start killing people,
> ...



sneak in with a warrant - when you knocked on the front door and got shot at first.

The Turner Diaries isn't giving you the real story.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

It's al;ways the people who are getting their ass kicked the worst who "claim victory"

LOL - duly noted.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> *BREAKING: 200+ Militarized Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada *
> 
> The "peaceful rancher" has not paid grazing fees to the US government for twenty years, argues federal land is really state land, and made threats to do whatever it took to prevent the feds from rounding up his stock.



No one had, Jake.  It wasn't until the long lost tortoise appeared that it went off the rails.  Something doesn't add up.  I'm sure the story will continue to develop and we'll see if military action is taken over a few turtles.  The fed govt. don't have the right to steal his cattle.  Under any circumstances.   They should back off.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > It's funny, you go to a compound and start killing people,
> 
> 
> 
> If they start killing you first - damn straight.



You're right that the jackbooted thugs took the first casualty - but they fired the first couple hundred shots, so I can see where the cultist might feel just a tad threatened.

BATF, who have no jurisdiction over children, were going to protect children from abuse, by spraying automatic gun fire at them... That story sounds reasonable to you, sploogy?


----------



## jillian (Apr 9, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



David Koresh bears full responsibility.


----------



## Politico (Apr 9, 2014)

Is this fantasy still going on? Did they chemtrail the forum or something?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> It's al;ways the people who are getting their ass kicked the worst who "claim victory"
> 
> LOL - duly noted.



Free advice.   Do not ever vindicate yourself.   It is a sure sign of weakness and a signal to the other side you've lost it. 

Your welcome and good day.  - J.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Never read the Turner Diaries, I watched the whole thing unfold on TV.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 9, 2014)

jillian said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



The BATF wanted to make a big production so they could go to Congress at appropriations time and justify their budgets. They could have done their searches any number of ways, but they chose the Rambo approach because it would be exciting on a video shown to Congress. 

The Batmen bear at least as much responsibility to the Waco clusterfuck as Koresh does.


----------



## jillian (Apr 9, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> The murderers who hid behind them and refused to let them leave have their blood on their hands.
> 
> So you were there? you saw with your own eyes?heard with your own ears?



There it's no question that Koresh was crazy, was a pedophile and didn't let those children leave.


----------



## jillian (Apr 9, 2014)

Steven_R said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



All he had to do was come out peacefully. He is fully responsible for what happened.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 9, 2014)

jillian said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



The BATF wanted an incident. They got it.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Apr 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > *BREAKING: 200+ Militarized Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada *
> ...



The rancher has no right to not pay We the People fees for our land.

So, yeah, govt rounding up the cattle is perfectly acceptable.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?



You're going to get your pound of flesh in a few days when the bullets fly and he gets real dead for his principled stand. You'll get some entertainment value of it when it's on the evening news and some righteous indignation, so you've at least got that going for you.


----------



## Lovebears65 (Apr 9, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > How about those kids in the day care in the Oklahoma Federal Building?   Timothy McVeigh was taking "revenge" for Waco and killed all those children and all the others in that building who died.
> ...



I didn't know Timothy McVeigh was our government. OH yeah . HE IS NOT.  He was just some WACKO who went crazy


----------



## Erand7899 (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



You obviously don't read any further, and that is why you remain ignorant.  The residents of the Koresh compound at Waco didn't go looking for trouble, the trouble came to them in the form of the ATF.  The same at Ruby Ridge in Idaho.  

Apparently, being repeated in Nevada.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 9, 2014)

Erand7899 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



Vicki Weaver surely had it coming when Lon Horiuchi put one through her head while holding an assault baby. 

She was making a move, man. He had to get it on!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

jillian said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



BATF motto - show children you care, by firing an M16 at them.

Compassionate leftism at work


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Never read the Turner Diaries, I watched the whole thing unfold on TV.



You didn't miss much.

The Turner Diaries reads like something written by a 5th grader. To say it is one dimensional is to be too kind.


----------



## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?



Yet, you can hike and camp use ATVs and drive cars polluting the land, you can do this unregulated for free,( as long as you don't mess with the rock art)  your horse can crap all over the place and eat the grass.  You will probably pee and poo on the land if staying for any amount of time for free.  

You can use the land as a virtual hotel for as long as you like and camp and build fires to warm your butt at night, leaving the land scarred from the fire and your horse trampling all over the land. Your car and ATVs can scar the land, your feet can do the same. Your dog and cat can pee and poo all over the land if you choose to bring it. 

Guess what ,*you can hunt there, fish there, you can pan for gold there*. Gaining a profit for yourself in all of the aforementioned items. You can photograph the area and sell the photos if you are good enough and make money from the area. You can sustain yourself off the land for free as long as you want as there is nothing to regulate how long you stay. 

Perhaps he does not appreciate that. But you can do it, cant you? And you don't have to pay him a dime. You can do all of the above for free. 

About Gold Butte | Friends of Gold Butte

Gold Butte Region - Area Overview


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

jillian said:


> There it's no question that Koresh was crazy, was a pedophile and didn't let those children leave.



What was the basis of the BATF raid?

Using all the extensive legal training you have, from years of sitting in your trailer, eating bon bons and watching Law and Order reruns, did it make sense for the BATF to serve such a warrant?

Is there precedent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to investigate allegations of child abuse? Particularly after the country officials investigated and found no evidence?


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Steven_R said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?
> ...



I don't want him dead. I want him to pay what he owes or get off my land. If he dies, it will be his choice. He really wants to die to defend the principle of his "right" to have the taxpayers subsidize his commercial enterprise?


----------



## Erand7899 (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave,
> 
> 
> 
> So as long as you stay home after you murder someone .... you're in the clear ????



That all depends on who did the murdering.  Koresh was hit when he opened the front door to greet the officers.  Doesn't appear that he was looking for a shootout.  If the ATF fired first, then they were the murderers.  

The ATF went looking for a show.  Even invited the TV cameras to the party.  They got the show they were looking for.  

The FBI lost their case, in my humble opinion, when they bulldozed the site to prevent the Texas Rangers from conducting an investigation into who fired first.  They destroyed all the evidence for a reason.  And, that reason was to protect themselves.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

jillian said:


> All he had to do was come out peacefully. He is fully responsible for what happened.



Bastard, wouldn't even walk out into a hail of gunfire...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

Steven_R said:


> The BATF wanted an incident. They got it.



The BATF was there to kill, not arrest Koresh. They had no viable charges, so killing him was the only way to win.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

Steven_R said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...





Erand7899 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave,
> ...




According to some of the survivors, they were shot at by the feds when they tried to flee the burning building.  At least one of the people was shot dead, and he didn't have a weapon on him.


----------



## Erand7899 (Apr 9, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I seriously doubt that the fees are the cause of this standoff.  More than likely, the range was closed off to cattle grazing to protect the turtles, and that put the rancher in a serious financial bind.  It looks like he moved his cattle onto the public lands anyway.

BTW, this is not the first time that BLM has pulled this kind of BS.  Utah is about 90% public land, and most of the roads and highways in Utah run across public lands at some point.  If the state puts in for a permit to fix a state road, the BLM denies it for environmental reasons.  The state has to maintain the roads, so there is a constant battle going on between the state and BLM.

In Colorado, which also has a lot of BLM land and National Forest land, the two agencies are constantly attempting to erase roads and trails that cross those public lands.  Overall, there is an effort by the federal government to close off these public lands to the public who owns them.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> According to some of the survivors, they were shot at by the feds when they tried to flee the burning building.  At least one of the people was shot dead, and he didn't have a weapon on him.



According to ALL of the survivors, and the news crews who shadowed the BATF, the feds opened fire immediately, without making any attempt to serve the warrant.

Did I mention the warrant was gained on perjured testimony? 

And maybe our legal expert Jillian can explain this;

{After a jury trial lasting nearly two months, the jury acquitted four of the Branch Davidians on all charges. Additionally, the jury acquitted all of the Branch Davidians on the murder-related charges, but convicted five of them on lesser charges, including aiding and abetting the voluntary manslaughter of federal agents.[85] }

Waco siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What? Not even one conviction for murder? Not even one conviction of child abuse? Not even one conviction for automatic weapons? Not even one conviction for explosives?


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Erand7899 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > > There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave,
> ...



Koresh and his cultists killed first. There is no question about that. Lotta blood on that guy's hands. Why would anyone feel the need to try to re-write history to idolize a murderer - I'll never know.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



No holes in any cars from the direction of the compound no holes from the inside of the compound on the outer door. There is no evidence the davidians fired first. And what evidence survived the firestorm the feds started was somehow lost when the Congress went to investigate.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8908858 said:
			
		

> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?
> ...



You can cip, dive, duck, and dodge all you want, but you still haven't addressed the fact that this guy is operating a commercial enterprise on my land. I deserve some compensation for the loss of use due to this. I'll settle for grazing fees and call it even. But this freeloader thinks he has a right to freebies. Screw him.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 9, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



I heard (with my own ears) survivors saying the davidians shot men, women, and children who were trying to get out because some of the davidians considered that disloyal. Jim Jones did the same thing. Crazy murdering cultists.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Steven_R said:
> ...



Provide a link. Or admit you made that up.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> I heard (with my own ears) survivors saying the davidians shot men, women, and children who were trying to get out because some of the davidians considered that disloyal. Jim Jones did the same thing. Crazy murdering cultists.



No you sure didn't.

IF such claims existed, then the feds would have gotten the convictions of the Davidians.

You probably were listening to leftist commentators.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Apr 9, 2014)

Rancher is not peaceful, he does not pay his grazing fees and over grazes, and he is a loon.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 9, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...




I'm with gunny on this.  I remember the testimony and they said the bullets were coming from the feds, not the davidians.

This is what I've found:

[The FBI]&#8230;barricaded [the Davidians] in their building, seventy-six Branch Davidians, including Koresh, did not survive the fire. Seventeen of these victims were children under the age of 17. The Danforth Report claims that those who died were unable, or unwilling, to flee and that Steve Schneider, Koresh&#8217;s right-hand man, probably shot Koresh and committed suicide with the same gun. Autopsy records indicate that at least 20 Branch Davidians were shot, including 5 children. Waco: The Rules of Engagement claims that FBI sharpshooters fired on, and killed, many Branch Davidians who attempted to flee the flames. While the few Branch Davidians who did successfully flee the fire supported this claim, the Danforth Report concluded that the adults who died of gunshot wounds shot themselves after shooting the children. Independent third party investigations refute the Danforth Report. On the final day of the Branch Davidian siege in 1993, aerial FLIR film was shot by the FBI that seemed to show automatic weapons fire directed into the burning buildings. Former Senator John Danforth, under the direction of Acting Attorney General Eric Holder, conducted a 14-month, $17-million investigation that exonerated the government of any wrongdoing

http://www.mycultlife.com/tag/branch-davidians/


----------



## CaféAuLait (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> CaféAuLait;8908858 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Freeloader, eh? You point fingers about addressing issues I have addressed and just ignored mine. You and others camp there for free on my land, you run your horses, ATVs and cars all over my land profiting using it as a hotel room, where is the money from all of those profiting from the use of that land? You have yet to answer that question. Where is the money from the pollution caused by the cars killing the plant life and polluting the beautiful rivers? How about your boat waste? How will the government pay for that destruction? of my land by campers, etc?  

As far as use, while your camping on your claimed plot I can't use that land either, can I, I can't enjoy the beauty of the area trying to look through your tents.  So I've lost use of my land. I can't trod in the horse crap , human pee and crap and dog shit left behind, so I deserve compensation for the loss of use for that as well, don't I? 

You claim he is profiting for a business, where is my money for your personal profit using it as a toilet, a hotel, killing the animals on my land for sport or eating them for _your_ profit. When do I see the money for the gold taken from the rivers? 

I've lost the beauty because someone else took it, I can no longer enjoy it because its dead or missing from my river.   Why should you be allowed to kill animals *(for free) *I enjoyed seeing each morning I wake up, those I watched in the streams and rivers?  Why should you be allowed to do all that without paying a plug nickel to gain access? 

Looks like its even to me the nearly 6 million people using the lands each year in the manners listed above, while his 500 cows eat a little grass off of 150 acres in small part of that 600,000 acres of the public land. You and others choose how you profit off the land in a different manner than he does IMO. 

My question would be why not charge a fee to the 6 million people entering these public lands each year to assure that people are not doing damage?  _That is why BLM is charging him a fee, to assure his cows are not damaging the area. People do a lot more damage than animals, but they are allowed to roam free, setting fires, camping, allowing their animals to do whatever without regulation_. Hunting and fishing, etc.  Seems if you want to regulate one persons actions on the land because of conservation, then they all should be regulated.

The weirdest part about this is BLM was not going to do anything about the lack of fee being paid until they were sued by conservationists.


----------



## Erand7899 (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Getting shot at?  Was that before, or after they shot Koresh when he answered the knock?

You, also, are not giving the real story.  

The ATF lied about Ruby Ridge and they lied about Waco.  They are not to be believed.  The FBI bulldozed the Koresh compound after the fire and after they got everything they wanted out.  Why did they do that?  They did it to cover up the lies.  

The FBI claimed they found some illegal weapons, but how can we believe them.  They had to have something to justify all that killing.

The FBI agent, standing on a tank, and waving the American flag while the compound burned and children died, made me sick to my stomach.


----------



## SAYIT (Apr 9, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Erand7899 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I've read every post and no one has attempted to "idolize" Koresh. What some have done is attempt to demonize the BATF and the Feds in general ... perhaps, in this case, with some justification.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 9, 2014)

The cows have been grazing on that land for decades.   He should have been paid for what his cows did to reduce the brush.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 9, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The cows have been grazing on that land for decades.   He should have been paid for what his cows did to reduce the brush.



Brush.  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## tyroneweaver (Apr 9, 2014)

Bundy is a white Mormonn so he's screwed already... but at any rate

He should pay his grazing fees


----------



## Politico (Apr 10, 2014)

Hopefully I will be eating some of his cows at a discount soon.


----------



## Lovebears65 (Apr 10, 2014)

JakeStarkey said:


> Rancher is not peaceful, he does not pay his grazing fees and over grazes, and he is a loon.



You do know this whole thing is about the desert TORTISE so who really is the loon...and the cows were grazing there for  a whole lot longer then this man cows have been there


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Rancher is not peaceful, he does not pay his grazing fees and over grazes, and he is a loon.
> ...



*the desert TORTISE*

the Desert Tortoise conservatory which has gone bankrupt 

and has to euthanize 900 of the turtles they have 

go figure 

so in the big picture 

it is not about the turtles


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## Politico (Apr 10, 2014)

> You do know this whole thing is about the desert TORTISE so who really is the loon...



The guy saying he is going to start a range war?


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## chikenwing (Apr 10, 2014)

Its not about a tortoise,its about the questioning of authority,and the authorities reaction to said questioning.

Absolute authority will NOT be questioned,in any form,and will respond heavily handed every time.


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## JoeB131 (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



Bush-41 killed the Nazis at Ruby Ridge. 

And the insane, pedophile cultists at Waco killed themselves. 

not seeing the issue here. This guy is letting his cattle roam onto federal land because he's too cheap to buy feed for them.


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## JoeB131 (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



No, they were molested by David Koresh... who then killed them.


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## chikenwing (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



So another one that was there and knows all..................NOT


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## chikenwing (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> ...



Wrong Did ya ever wonder why the Feds paid Randy weaver a very large sum of money??

If you think what happened at ether place was good Gov,your simpley an idiot.


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## JoeB131 (Apr 10, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> [
> 
> Wrong Did ya ever wonder why the Feds paid Randy weaver a very large sum of money??
> 
> If you think what happened at ether place was good Gov,your simpley an idiot.



The government paid Randy Weaver money because it was cheaper than litigating with him. 

They should have fought that Nazi fuck every step of the way.


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## JoeB131 (Apr 10, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



Well, no, I'll trust the FOUR INVESTIGATIONS that all found that Waco was a mass suicide.  

And the dozens of witnesses that proved Koresh was having sex with children.


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## chikenwing (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I bet you would


----------



## chikenwing (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



The FBI shot his wife dead,with a child in her arms,and you side with the Gov,and call others Nazis,your a fucking idiot beyond belief.

Did you pull your jackboots of a dead Nazi along with your brown shirt?


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## JoeB131 (Apr 10, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > chikenwing said:
> ...



The Davidians were folks who thought that their dirtbag leader was the Messiah, and that if he let them have sex with their kids, they'd all get into heaven. 

COme on, dude, look at who you are defending here.  

Now, to be absolutely balanced, the FBI and ATF totally fucked up how they handled this... but the proximate cause is that David Koresh would rather have killed all his followers than go to jail, because he knew what they do to his kind in prison.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > chikenwing said:
> ...



*The FBI shot his wife dead,with a child in her arms*

while she was behind a curtain in the window


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## JoeB131 (Apr 10, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > chikenwing said:
> ...



HIs wife was in a house where at least three men where brandishing guns and aiming them at Federal Officers.  

Really, a special kind of stupid, really.


----------



## chikenwing (Apr 10, 2014)

This child abuse thing has been proven false by the local agencies that had been looking into it long before the Feds showed up. Your gobbling up propaganda in a big way, Its typical of people like yourself,all must be conformists like your self,or their crazies,or Nazis or another label you can stick to them,its rather pathetic,and shows little character.

You are right the FEDS fucked that up from the very moment they stepped foot on that compound,and many died that wouldn't have otherwise,they and they alone have blood on their hands,Janet Reno and Bill are just as guilty.


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## chikenwing (Apr 10, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



So?? what does that have to do with anything,the shooter admitted he knew and recognized his target,what the fuck is wrong with you people??


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



weaver as well as harris and weavers daughter was outside randy was shot through the back 

the next shot the fbi claimed was for harris 

hit vicky in the head 

the justice dept found the second shot was unconstitutional 

since no offer of surrender was given and the three was running for cover


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > chikenwing said:
> ...



the justice department task force also specifically blamed the sniper for firing at the door


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



"Several former compound residents and relatives of current compound residents spoke of the Davidians' devotion to Koresh and their desire to kill or die for him. one former resident who left during the standoff told investigators that on March 2 Koresh intended to leave the compound with his followers and commit mass suicide, until Koresh changed his mind when God told him "to wait." Another former resident stated she had heard the members speak numerous times about suicide. Former Koresh "wife" Dana Okimoto said that if Koresh were to die before his followers, everyone inside the compound would kill themselves.
On March 5, 1993, released child Joan Vaega had a note pinned to her clothes stating that her mother (Marguerita Vaega) would be dead by the time other relatives had read the note. Former compound residents now living in Australia reported that Koresh planned mass suicide. Dr. Bruce Perry, who interviewed the released Davidian children, reported that the Davidians had apparently reached some group consensus about a final end to the confrontation. Finally, "cult expert" Kelli Waxman warned in early March that Koresh probably had suicide plans."

Report to the Deputy Attorney General on the Events at Waco, Texas: Attitudes of Koresh and others in the Compound

Still others were shot to death, suicide or homicide victims in apparent mercy killings, they said. Both the coroners and some FBI sources have told FRONTLINE that the pattern of most of the bodies was not consistent with a theory of mass suicide.

FAQs | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS


The Jim Jones scenario.

I do not make things up.

You've been sold a bill of goods on these crazy cultist murderers by the far right militia types who are looking to provoke their Turner Diaries fantasies. Just like all these other conspiracy theories, they wither in the light of the facts and logic. But some people continue to promote them because they fit their political agenda. Others believe them in spoite of all the evidence to the contrary because they want to.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

The common thread behind all these incidents is people who believe they are above the law. They seem to believe that if they grab a gun, they can pick and choose which laws they will obey and which laws they will ignore. It never works. And unfortunately others get caught up in the crossfire when these nutcases learn that NO ONE is above the law.


----------



## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> April 19, 1993 - Waco Tragedy
> 
> The 51-day Branch Davidian standoff, with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Fire Arms and Explosives, in Waco, Texas ends in the fiery death of approximately 76 people, including 27 children.
> 
> ...



Agreed.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 10, 2014)

Oath Keepers is on its way to the ranch


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

who are "Oath Keepers"?


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Just read a little on Oath Keepers. More of those people who think it's OK to disobey a law if you disagree with it.

meh


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## rightwinger (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



As a taxpayer.....

Pay up or get the fuck off our land


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> ...



And clean up all that cow shit as you leave


----------



## rightwinger (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



Look.

We have 200 armed men already there. Start shooting all the cattle that are trespassing on federal land. Distribute the free beef to all the widows and orphans


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## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?




Should you have to pay a fee for hiking and camping on that land?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



And before someone starts raving about private property and the cows belonging to Bundy, look at the facts.

Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees in 1993.

He was told by a federal judge in 1998 to stop using the public land for grazing his cattle.

Last July a federal judge gave him 45 days to remove his cattle from the public land.


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## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> Oath Keepers is on its way to the ranch



I was just watching a video of an incident that occurred there and reading the comments on it.  

I thought to myself about one of the comments.  What if the protesters also had tasers?  Or pepper spray?  The Feds used a taser totally unprovoked. . . just for being filmed.  That would have certainly spiraled out of control quickly if the protesters also possessed non-lethal crowed control devices.  Or if they also possessed dogs.

Or what if Nevada was on his side in this issue and sent the State troopers to protect his rights?  If this were happening in Arizona or Texas, one could certainly imagine such a scenario.



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUYr9ruxjGbBB1MOpuU6tpAQ&v=LhJ6H9vlEDA#t=31"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUYr9ruxjGbBB1MOpuU6tpAQ&v=LhJ6H9vlEDA#t=31[/ame]


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?
> ...



In some places you do and some you do not.   But I think there is a difference between camping and running a commercial operation by grazing 900 head of cattle on public land.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > So since I've "lost" it should be no problem for someone to tell me what I'm getting in return for letting this guy run his commercial enterprise on my land for free? I don't want to hike or camp in a pile of cow shit. So the part he is using is not useable to the rest of us. What is this freeloader giving us in return?
> ...



If I am doing it as a commercial enterprise, you're darned right.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

We have kangaroo courts in this country.  The judge's decisions are often just as illegal as the agencies that bring the charges.

This is a travesty on the level of the one that resulted in the death of Donald Scott when the government wanted his land to be part of a Malibu view corridor.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Oath Keepers is on its way to the ranch
> ...



I appreciate what these people think they are doing.  And I am no fan of the authoritarian moves that the feds are making.

But the rancher is wrong.  And so are these protestors.

The feds have to remove 900 head of cattle.  Having a bunch of locals trying to interfere is going to get someone hurt.  The rancher does not have a legal leg to stand on.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Oath Keepers is on its way to the ranch
> ...



The Governor is certainly speaking out against the government's tyranny.   He should send state troopers in.

Nevada Governor Calls Federal Cattle Roundup ?Intimidation? « CBS Las Vegas


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



But if you arm yourself, you get to pick and choose which laws you obey.
It's in the Constitution somewhere .... I forget just where, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> We have kangaroo courts in this country.  The judge's decisions are often just as illegal as the agencies that bring the charges.
> 
> This is a travesty on the level of the one that resulted in the death of Donald Scott when the government wanted his land to be part of a Malibu view corridor.



A travesty?   The grazing fees paid by the ranchers to use public lands are ridiculously low.  And Bundy stopped paying those fees 21 years ago!!  The feds waited 5 years (while he grazed his cattle for free) before the ordered him to stop.  Then they waited another 5 years before they took action to remove his cattle.

He has been grazing 900 head of cattle, in a commercial operation, for free for 21 years.  And he is the victim??   LMAO!!


----------



## Moonglow (Apr 10, 2014)

Just think what would have happened if this guy was letting his cattle graze on private land and did not pay the lease...


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## rightwinger (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I don't know about you, but I think it is long overdue that we have us a Barbeque


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



Why?  Why should Nevada send state troopers in to defend a rancher who has been basically stealing feed for his cattle for 21 years??   Why should they stop the feds from removing a thief from public lands?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I agree!   Isn't it amazing that someone abandoned these hundreds of cows out here on public land??   How many military bases are nearby?   How about steaks for our soldiers?


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## Dot Com (Apr 10, 2014)

fauxrage by loversbears65 spoon fed to her by Murdoch. 'twas ever thus :yawn: 

The rancher is a deadbeat & Repub-voters cheer him. Simple as that.


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## Moonglow (Apr 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> fauxrage by loversbears65 spoon fed to her by Murdoch. 'twas ever thus :yawn:
> 
> The rancher is a deadbeat & Repub-voters cheer him. Simple as that.



Next thing you know they will be posting another thread about their hero Pootin'


----------



## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)




----------



## rightwinger (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzIiMoVckcU



Freeloader

Part of the entitlement mentality


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## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


If you watch the above interview of Bundy, you can see that it is quite that simple.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?


----------



## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzIiMoVckcU
> ...


----------



## JakeStarkey (Apr 10, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Rancher has not paid fees in 20 years, overgrazes the land, and is stealing from We the People.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Do you mean "NOT quite that simple" ?

I've read his position - he's full of crap. He's a welfare cowboy whose family has been feeding off the public trough for 127 years. And he has 14 children to boot. He can't afford to pay for his cattle's feed, but he keeps cranking out kids that the taxpayers are gonna have to support as well.

This is the definition of generational welfare.


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## Dot Com (Apr 10, 2014)

my gawd. loversbears65 lifted her thread title directly off of her rw link. Plagiarism anyone?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?



His cattle are free grazing where they have been since the 1800's
His family has used that land since before the federal government took it.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?



Roaming off the ranch onto federal property.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > We have kangaroo courts in this country.  The judge's decisions are often just as illegal as the agencies that bring the charges.
> ...



He has been grazing his cattle, along with his family for 140 years.  When the government wanted the land, they simply raised the fees until he couldn't pay it.  
This tactic has been done before.  

AZ rancher only paid $600 after feds seize prime land - CBS 5 - KPHO

Donald Scott was murdered by federal authorities when they wanted his land.
Donald Scott case - killing for land

This government has been going out of control for a long time.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?
> ...



Which is another way of saying his family has been feeding off the public trough for 127 years.

= generational welfare


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?
> ...



But is it his actual ranch, or are they roaming off of the ranch?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



The state government had 0 problem with what he is doing. The feds are stepping on state issues


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Katz - how much were Bundy's fees? Please provide a link. And please provide a link to BUNDY'S case, not some other case. We're trying to talk about Cliven Bundy here.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



FEDERAL LAND is a state issue??????????????????????????????????

REALLY?

That's too funny


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Free grazing on public land is quite normal in some areas and has been for hundreds of years


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Why don't you look up how long his family has used the land as compared to when the feds took over the land.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Yes it IS just that simple.   Bundy's defense is that he has been there a long time.  Do you really think that is a legitimate reason to ignore laws?

He is upset that the price he pays to graze his cattle went up.  I bet he doesn't complain when the price he is paid for his cattle goes up.

He wants things to stay the same way they were in the 1880s.  And that is ridiculous.

He has already gotten 21 years worth of free grazing.  The feds have been far more tolerant than any private landlord would have been.

Can you imagine if you owned land and he paid to graze his cattle there?  You raise the fee and he stops paying.  Are you going to wait 5 years to tell him to get his cattle off your land?  Are you ging to wait 21 years before you round them up yourself?


----------



## JimH52 (Apr 10, 2014)

So why hasn't the "peaceful citizen" paid his grazing fees?

Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing | Fox News



> &#8220;For more than two decades, cattle have been grazed illegally on public lands in northeast Clark County,&#8221; the BLM said in a statement. &#8220;BLM and (the National Park Service) have made repeated attempts to resolve this matter administratively and judicially. Impoundment of cattle illegally grazing on public lands is an option of last resort.&#8221;



If I were a rancher in the area and had been paying to graze my cattle, I would think this guy is getting special treatment.


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## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?



His ranch is private, he grazes on federal property.

His family has run this business this way for generations.  It's really a political issue, not an environmental one.  It's motivated by the competition I'm sure.  Factory farming uses Bovine growth hormones, antibiotics, enclosures, small spaces and grain fed beef.  I'm sure this is motivated by a desire to shut him and organic farmers like him down.  

Grass fed beef, organic beef is a niche market, it's highly competitive.

If you do the research, you will find that the BLM euthanized hundreds of these tortoises instead of nursing them back to health because it was too expensive.  Likewise.  they are spending two million to round up his cattle, when he only "owes" a million in back taxes.  

It is about power and control.  It is about crony capitalism, or corporatism.  

http://reclaimourrepublic.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/video-rancher-cliven-bundy-family-faces-sniper-rifles-govt-standoff-americans-disappearing-rights-tortoise/

There's no much good clean food out there anymore.  Good health starts with the right food.  Get rid of that, and people will need this rotten deathcare system.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?
> ...



His family never owned that land.  But they have been using it.

And Bundy hasn't paid to fed the cattle in his commercial operation for 21 years.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



When the gov't wanted the land????  The gov't *already owned* the land.  

The gov't did not seize any land in this case.  The Bundy family has never owned the land.


----------



## jasonnfree (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.[/QUOTE
> 
> The murderers at Waco were the Feds.  The people inside the compound were peaceful citizens.  They weren't breaking any laws until they were invaded.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Im sure there is plenty to the story that bolsters both sides. But at what point does that equate to this type of force being used against an unviolent American?


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Yes, his family has been there a long time.  But they never owned the land in question.  They used it, but never owned it.  

So if my family has been in an area for a long time, should I get to ignore any new laws or new gov't agencies?

Because that is exactly what Bundy is claiming with his "preemptive rights" nonsense.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

So here are the facts as I understand them:

- Bundy's family has been using that land for grazing for generations.
- The government at some point, but after Bundy's family had been grazing there, claimed that the land was federal property.
- The government claims it is trying to protect some subspecies of tortoise.
- Bundy stopped paying his grazing fee in 1993.

If these facts are correct, then the only real thing to say is that the government had no right to the land in the first place, and that Bundy's family, and probably other ranchers who were driven from the area, had the property right to that land. As far as the argument regarding the tortoises goes, the government's success rate for protecting endangered or at risk species' is so low as to be essentially nonexistent, so it's not even a factor in this case.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

It's fucking grass, dirt & cow shit lol

Organize the army to defend this patch of grass from those dastardly cows. 

Really? This is what our government does? Why don't they do this on the damn border?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



And how did they not own the land prior to the government taking it? They, and other ranchers presumably, were the ones who mixed their labor with the land, so who has a better claim to ownership than they do?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



He stopped paying the grazing fee in 1993.
It was 5 years before a federal judges ruled that he had to stop grazing on federal land.
It was 15 more years, and another federal judge saying the same thing, before the feds started working to remove his cattle.
It has been almost a year since the second ruling.

How long do the feds allow someone to ignore the law and federal rulings before they take any sort of action?  They are not doing anything to Bundy.  They are removing his cattle from public land, like a federal judge ordered him to do 16 years ago.


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## Dot Com (Apr 10, 2014)

rw fauxrage is strong in this thread. He needs to be held accountable for being a freeloader.


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## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Yes, thank you.

I fail to see how this is any different than the mineral rights that the government gives to the oil companies.  Please, do elucidate me.

Oh, wait.  You need cheap gas.  That's the difference.

Well, guess what?  I'm primarily a vegetarian.  The only time I buy beef is from ranchers like these.  You know how much a pound of ground beef is from grass fed beef?  About $12/lb.  If we let the factory farms use the BLM to force these farmers out of business, you won't have that option anymore.   Do you really know where most of your beef really comes from?

You will be left with beef polluted with bovine growth hormones, mad cow disease, super antibiotic resistant pathogens, & just generally nasty rotten stinking meat.

You really don't want to know where that shit you buy at Wal-Mart comes from.  It certainly doesn't come from ranchers like this guys.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



The government owned the land because it TOOK the land in 1993.  Your error is in thinking that the federal government OWNS all land not otherwise owned by someone else.   All vacant land does not belong to the government.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Why is it any other case can be adjudicated through the courts but this one requires 200 armed men?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> So here are the facts as I understand them:
> 
> - Bundy's family has been using that land for grazing for generations.
> - The government at some point, but after Bundy's family had been grazing there, claimed that the land was federal property.
> ...



How do you see the ownership of the land being with Bundy??    Did they file the deeds, pay the taxes or do all the other things that signify ownership?

Even Bundy agrees that it is public land.

But if you want to say that the Bundy family has owned it for 140 years, then I guess that they owe some pretty serious back taxes, wouldn't you say?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



I know those numbers - your contention that the management of FEDERAL LANDS is really a state issue is absurd.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



It HAS been adjudicated through the courts.   Bundy ignore the rulings for better than 15 years, and continued to graze his hundreds of head of cattle for free.

This entire operation is about removing the cattle.  They are not in a stand-off with Bundy.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

Politico said:


> Hopefully I will be eating some of his cows at a discount soon.



Beef prices are expected to rise between 300 and 1000% in the next 6 months. You could easily be paying $20 a pound for hamburger by summer. Killing off cattle is the BLM's way of helping drive prices even further up. 

And some of the loony left here deny that there is an active war being waged by the democrats to destroy the middle class.....


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Because some welfare cowboy snatched up his gun and invited his neighbors to join him in a range war in order to protect his "right" to have taxpayers subsidize his commercial enterprise.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> rw fauxrage is strong in this thread. He needs to be held accountable for being a freeloader.



Do you know anything about ranching or free grazing?  What he is doing is nothing new to this country. In fact free grazing was the norm for generations. No one is losing anything, the land is unused otherwise. This is just the government poaching the pockets of ranchers. What YOU normally refer to as CEO greed


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

jasonnfree said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



I buy grass fed beef in GA.  It is mostly grown in GA and AL.  I agree that there is a huge problem with the factory farms.

But that is not the issue here.  This man has been stealing feed for his commercial cattle operation for 21 years.  In 1998 he was ordered to stop grazing his cattle on public land by a federal judge.  And now, 16 years later, the feds are finally removing his cattle.

And if grass-fed beef is so expensive, why won't Bundy pay the increase in grazing fees, like every other rancher using public lands?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Bush-41 killed the Nazis at Ruby Ridge.
> 
> And the insane, pedophile cultists at Waco killed themselves.
> 
> not seeing the issue here. This guy is letting his cattle roam onto federal land because he's too cheap to buy feed for them.



Comrade Stalin, do you masturbate to the thought of putting a bullet in the brain of an unarmed mother holding an infant in her arms, like Lon Horiuchi did at Ruby Ridge?

We know you do, you sick motherfucker.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > So here are the facts as I understand them:
> ...



These are simply state-created indicators of ownership, but irrelevant to whether the property right is rightfully that of the ranchers who mixed their labor with the land. I own this computer that I'm writing this post on, but if I had to prove that I would probably find myself coming up empty. I have no deed to this computer, in other words, but it's still my property. The government can't simply come and take it from me.

And no, as a libertarian I would say they do not owe taxes on their own property. That makes no sense at all. If I own something where does anybody get the right to tell me that I have to pay them a fee to use it? That would indicate that they own it, which is not the case.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



That would put him in contempt of court and he could have been jailed YEARS, shit, DECADES ago. The government as usual has let this boil over into this mess.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > rw fauxrage is strong in this thread. He needs to be held accountable for being a freeloader.
> ...



No, free grazing is not new.   But in order to graze your cattle on federal land, you are required to pay a fee.  If you do not pay the fee, you have to remove your cattle.

Bundy did neither.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Beef prices, starving children, states rights ....

The fact that you guys have to scrape so hard to find a diversion is evidence enough that your position is the wrong one.

Bottom line - the guy wants the taxpayers to subsidize his business.

If he truly believed that he didn't owe any grazing fees then why did he pay them for a while? Why did he say he'd pay the grazing fees to his county but not to the feds?

Just a generational welfare cowboy.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



I have no problem with the removal of property taxes.  But do it all over, not in just a special case.

And you actually purchased your computer.  The Bundy family has apparently just allowed their cattle to graze on public land for years.

As I have said, even Cliven Bundy has stated that it is public land.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> The government paid Randy Weaver money because it was cheaper than litigating with him.
> 
> They should have fought that Nazi fuck every step of the way.



Comrade Stalin, you are a scumbag and a liar, and those are your good traits;

So, show evidence that Weaver was a Nazi, fuckwad? Come on, you lying sack of shit, show us some evidence, you putrid pile of filth.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



So the fact that they waited and did NOT rush in makes this mess the fault of the feds??

lmao


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



So a sniper kills his wife and Weaver is the one at fault??   WTF?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



You were given a receipt for the purchase of your computer. If Bundy can show a receipt where he paid his grazing fees - no problem.

IMHO - a very poor analogy.


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## farmer (Apr 10, 2014)

The feds took control of the land in 1861 when  they organized the Nevada Territory which is before the Bundy family started farming there.
They used the land for free for many years before the feds started charging rent . The US is the landlord and Bundy is the renter. 
Bundy hasn't paid the rent in 21 years so his ass should be gone.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



It doesn't matter what Bundy says. Just because he thinks something doesn't make it true.

In regards to my computer, I did the same thing Bundy's family, and other ranchers did, to their land, only I did it indirectly. They mixed their labor directly with unowned, unoccupied land, thus creating their own property right into it. Now my computer was already owned by somebody else before I owned it, but my labor indirectly led me into owning it. The principle remains the same regardless of whether you've directly or indirectly mixed your labor with that which you now own.

The government had no right to take that land from its rightful owners, even if those owners never really thought of themselves as the owners.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



What exactly did they expect him to do if they showed they had no intention of enforcing any court decisions? 
This is entirely their fault. Apparently they had the law on their side and what did they do to enforce it? Nothing.......yeah, great deterrent


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



That's because you've mixed it up. You're focusing on the grazing fees, rather than the fact that the Bundy's already owned the land in the first place. And yes, I was awarded a receipt, but where that receipt is now I couldn't tell you. In other words, I have as much proof that I own this computer as Bundy's family had to prove that they owned the land. Yet it's clear in both cases who the rightful owners of the property in question are. In the case of the computer, I am the obvious rightful owner. In the case of the land, the ranchers who mixed their labor with the unowned, unoccupied land are the owners of the land. Even if they don't have some deed saying that it's so.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Except the Bundy family never owned the land.  The fact that they allowed their cattle to eat the grass off that land does NOT equate to ownership.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



A federal judge told him to remove his cattle.   They waited for him to do so.  Eventually they decided to remove the cattle for him.

If he assumed that the feds were going to just forget about him, then he is an idiot.


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## GreenBean (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



I doubt it - he doesn't seem to have a political Agenda [The Rancher]  just a free-loader.  Public Lands yes, but he's been using them as his own.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



If you deny that the people who originally mixed their labor with the land own the land then you essentially negate all property rights, because that's how property rights come into being.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Allowing cattle to eat grass on some land does not mean you own the land.  There are steps you must take to secure ownership.  Those steps were never taken.

The fact that neither side is debating who owns the land makes it a moot point.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

We send 200 armed men to defend the grass on puplic land but none to defend our diplomats under seige. Grass that grows back.....


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## JimH52 (Apr 10, 2014)

MisterBeale said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?
> ...



So are you advocating that he be allowed to continue to defy a federal judge?  What happened to the "law and order" Republicans?


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## hangover (Apr 10, 2014)

Next, the ranchers will want to graze their cattle in Yellowstone National Park for free, and kill all the Buffalo, deer and elk, so the cattle will have enough grass. I'm sure you wouldn't mind them grazing in your yard, huh.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



I deny that allowing cattle to roam free entitles you to ownership of all the land on which they roam.  Yes, I am sure the Bundy's mixed sweat with the land.  My great-great-great grandparents did the same as sharecroppers.  But they did not own the land.  And the Bundy's owned the land they claimed and improved.  They do not own every acre that their cows wandered across.

By your method, every time a fence broke and cows got out would increase the size of the ranch.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



You're blinded by the idea that property rights must be endorsed and sanctioned by the government, but that's simply not the case.

Explain to us how the federal government has a property right in land that it has never used at all, over the people who mixed their labor with that land.


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## regent (Apr 10, 2014)

Great idea, and I'm all for it, I mean if a person is peaceful he has a right to take federal land as his own. With that reasoning, and since I'm a peaceful person, can I  claim the same land as the peaceful rancher claims? On second thought why crappy range land why not Yosemite or Yellowstone.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

hangover said:


> Next, the ranchers will want to graze their cattle in Yellowstone National Park for free, and kill all the Buffalo, deer and elk, so the cattle will have enough grass. I'm sure you wouldn't mind them grazing in your yard, huh.



That's about as likely as you making a rational post.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> We send 200 armed men to defend the grass on puplic land but none to defend our diplomats under seige. Grass that grows back.....



Hopefully the grass will grow back.  Over-grazing and the subsequent erosion are common problems on the federal lands out west.

But the Bengazi thing is not relevant here.  I agree that the administration should be held accountable for that travesty.  But it has no bearing on this topic.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Sharecroppers were working on land already owned by others. It is in no way analogous to the situation at hand.

You deny that mixing your labor with unowned, unoccupied land gives you a property to that land, but you're good with the idea that politicians can simply claim that they own land they've likely never seen, let alone mixed their labor with, and that's legitimate?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> So the fact that they waited and did NOT rush in makes this mess the fault of the feds??
> 
> lmao



40% of America's beef cattle have died. Insane mishandling by the state of California and the Federal government in a relocation effort of cattle from drought stricken California destroyed the entire commercial beef stocks.

California Farms Going Thirsty as Drought Burns $5 Billion Hole - Bloomberg

Milk and Beef prices will rise to records, with milk expected to hit $10 a gallon and ground beef more than $20 a pound.

U.S. Cattle Herd Shrinking to 63-Year Low Means Record Beef Cost - Businessweek

Given this, the timing of an attack on a beef producer, with the expected outcome being the destruction of yet another large herd, is beyond suspicious. 

If one were to seek the destruction of the American Middle Class, a solid strategy would be to create exponential increases in the costs of food and fuel.

Oh, I paid $4.19 for regular yesterday.


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## Meister (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



The feds could have and should have waited them out.  They were fully contained, and there shouldn't have been any collateral damage.  
The whole issue was a mess, and Koresh was a wacko, but the way it went down didn't have to go that way.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



I am not blinded by anything.  I accept that there are laws that cover land ownership, and that the federal gov't does, in fact, own land.

If you would like to convince the people to reduce or remove these laws, I will be behind you.  But until those laws are removed, they stand to be enforced.

If I owned land that I was intentionally allowing to remain wild, by your rules, someone else could come in and work it and change the ownership of that land.


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## farmer (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> We send 200 armed men to defend the grass on puplic land but none to defend our diplomats under seige. Grass that grows back.....



No we are sending 200 armed men to evict someone for not paying his rent and has no intention of leaving.Who also has made comments about not leaving peacefully.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Nope, Bundy NEVER had a receipt because he NEVER owned the land. You are right in that the rightful owner of Bundy's grazing land is obvious - it is the people of the United States of America. There is absolutely no legal argument to be made for anything else. From the very beginning there was an understanding that the land did not belong to the ranchers. The ranchers never made any improvements or put up fences, or erected any structures, or any of the other things that indicate ownership now did they?

Nope - because they understood from day 1 that this land was not theirs, but they would be allowed to graze their cattle their as long as they abide by the rules. The rules changed. This guy paid his fees for x number of years - an indication of his consent to the rules. Allowing cows to graze on the land is not "mixing work and the land." The cows who were grazing were the only ones doing any "work." So by your standard, the cows own the land. 

Later - he decides he disagrees with the rules. He'll pay his grazing fees to the county, but not the Feds.

All these facts indicate that Bundy 1) acknowledged the land was not his 2) acknowledged his debt for grazing fees

Just because you suddenly don't agree with a law, doesn't mean you have the right to take up arms in order to disobey that law. 

Your contention that Bundy (even though he doesn't realize it) owns the land, is indefensible.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



The federal government "owns" land because the federal government has simply declared it to be so, and it has backed this claim up with the threat of violence. As we are seeing here. It has done nothing to take legitimate ownership of any land, however.

A bad law is no law at all, and should not be enforced.

That just goes to show you don't understand the principle of ownership. Once somebody has mixed their labor with unowned land, then nobody else can come along and mix their labor and claim ownership.


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## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Because the Feds have owned the land since they won it in the Mexican War AND paid $15,000,000 for it.

Mexican Cession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



So, who owned the land BEFORE the Federal government "simply declared it to be so"?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Care to prove that the Bundy family mixed their sweat with anything on the public lands??


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

Now you know what happened to the farmers when Stalin took over.


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## hangover (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> hangover said:
> 
> 
> > Next, the ranchers will want to graze their cattle in Yellowstone National Park for free, and kill all the Buffalo, deer and elk, so the cattle will have enough grass. I'm sure you wouldn't mind them grazing in your yard, huh.
> ...



I love it when you make stupid comments, which you don't have a clue about.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

> That just goes to show you don't understand the principle of ownership. Once somebody has mixed their labor with unowned land, then nobody else can come along and mix their labor and claim ownership.



Since when is grazing "labor"


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Now you know what happened to the farmers when Stalin took over.



You mean Stalin tried to make farmers pay up on their grazing fees?

The BASTARD

diversionary hyperbole 

Have anything that actually applies?


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

I sure hope he survives this dispute with Big Brother. We all saw what happened to those women and children at Waco. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. God help him. 


A long-simmering dispute between a Nevada cattle rancher and the federal Bureau of Land Management has reached a boiling point, and participants have their fingers crossed it wont erupt into violence.

Since 1993, Cliven Bundy has been battling the agency, as well as the National Park Service, the Center for Biological Diversity and the courts, to graze his cattle on 150 square miles of Gold Butte scrub land in the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. He stopped paying his grazing fees back then, saying he fired the Bureau of Land Management as land manager. His Mormon ancestors had tilled the unforgiving soil since 1887, long before the 1934 Taylor Grazing Act allowed the federal government to seize control.

I have raised cattle on that land, which is public land for the people of Clark County, all my life. Why I raise cattle there and why I can raise cattle there is because I have preemptive rights, he asserted, that this includes the right to forage, too.

Furthermore, Bundy has argued that it is the United States trespassing on Clark County, Nev., land, not he, and that he is a better steward of the land. He points out that the manure from his cows fertilizes the soil, that hes built water sources for wildlife, and that his cattle prevent the vegetation from growing overly dense and creating a fire hazard.

But environmentalists, federal officials and the courts disagree. Armed federal officials and contract cowboys have been brought in to execute a 2013 court order and remove the trespassing cattle.

Its high time for the BLM to do its job and give the [endangered desert] tortoises and the Gold Butte area the protection they need and are legally entitled to, senior Center for Biological Diversity scientist Rob Mrowka told the Mesquite Local News. As the tortoises emerge from their winter sleep, they are finding their much-needed food consumed by cattle.

Bundys herd also hinders the plants ability to recover from wildfires, tramples rare species, damages ancient American Indian cultural sites and endangers recreationists, Mrowka added.

The Bureau of Land Management has overstepped its boundaries by not letting me access my rights, he said, and contended that it had inserted 200 armed officers watching our every move and stealing our cattle. Bundys wife, Carol, said snipers are patrolling the familys ranch.

Spokeswoman Cannon responded that There are law enforcement and other personnel in place as needed to ensure that the BLM and National Park Services employees and contractors are able to conduct operations safely.

Bundy has vowed to do whatever it takes to protect his property, and his 14 children and hundreds of supporters stand behind him. Dave Bundy, his son, was arrested on Sunday afternoon while attempting to film the contract cowboys at work, and cited for failing to disperse and resisting arrest...

Read More:
Defiant Nevada rancher faces armed federal agents in escalating confiscation standoff - BizPac Review
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

WACO!  Go back further than Waco.  This is what Stalin did in Russia.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I'm going to address your last sentence first. What a person might think does not necessarily equate to the truth of a situation. A person can have little or no knowledge of the principle of homesteading, which seems to be the case with Bundy, but whether the principle is true or not has nothing to do with this person's knowledge. If they homestead unowned land, but have no knowledge of the homesteading principle, does that mean they did not homestead the land? Now you can disagree with the principle, of course, but you cannot deny that, whether they knew this is what they were doing or not, the ranchers clearly homesteaded land that was unowned and unoccupied at the time.

Now to address your receipt argument. This goes back to the principle of homesteading, and whether or not you agree with it. In my opinion, the people who mixed their labor with this land originally are the proper owners of the land regardless of whether they were given a "receipt," or some other form of arbitrary sanction by the government. There is clearly nobody with a better claim, at the very least. The simple fact is that there is no "receipt" because they are the original owners of the land. I only received a receipt to prove my ownership of this computer because I am not the original owner of the computer, but they were the original owners of the land so there was nobody in any position to give them a receipt.

Now it would at least appear as if you believe that any land that is unowned or unoccupied is somehow automatically the property of the federal government, but I don't see any logic to that position. You can correct me on that if I'm wrong.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

I also love the emphasis on this rancher facing "armed" federal agents.

LOL - HE picked up his gun and invited his neighbors to join him in a range war.

I guess the Feds should have just brought lollipops


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



As violence confers no actual property right all that can be said here is that one criminal gang "won" territory from another. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



It would depend on the land in question. In this case, I've already pointed out who owned the land: the ranchers who mixed their labor with it.


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## Moonglow (Apr 10, 2014)

no he did not, gheesh!


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



The fact that they've been using that land, along with other ranchers who also have a property right in the land, for generations is proof enough. Care to prove that the federal government mixed their labor with the land?


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## MisterBeale (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Again, I think Bundy was agreeable to paying the increase in grazing fees.  I think the issue is much more complex than it is being portrayed in the media.  I think it has much more to do with a turtle which Bundy felt he had no input on.  Likewise, I believe this had something to do with the calculations on the fee which made it no longer economical to raise cattle in the area which he was raising cattle.  I believe I even read or heard somewhere that the other ranchers in the area already packed it in.

I wish I could tell you, but again, I don't know all the information.  What I do know are some facts.  The facts I do know don't add up.  There is something fishy going on.  If it costs more to remove the cattle than he owes in fees, then there is some political reason why those cattle need to go.  I am guessing that the factory farms that sell beef in Nevada donate to Harry Reid and they don't want grass fed beef available in Nevada.  Just a hypothesis.  

This would be the NORMAL fee schedule, the one HE agreed to go by.  But this is NOT the table they were using on him.
http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/info/newsroom/2013/january/blm_and_forest_service.html

This issue is far more complex, with much more data than we are being presented, we would need the actual evidence presented from the EPA, the added fee to HIS costs over and above what most ranchers would have to pay, and why he declined to pay them because of this tortoise.

Is this one tortoise a good enough reason to bankrupt generations of livelihood of this family?  Should the government have paid to relocate the entire wealth and livelihood of this family if these bureaucrats were going to make these decisions unilaterally?  I cannot answer these questions.  What I can say, is that I do understand the man's frustration.  He provided an honest living and service to society, and bureaucrats levied, taxed, and lawyered his lifestyle and families way of life out from under him.  Deeming the existence of a reptile more important than his children and his grandchildren, and the service he provided to his countrymen.  

Wouldn't you be pissed, waking up wondering what the hell happened to the nation you had once loved?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> > That just goes to show you don't understand the principle of ownership. Once somebody has mixed their labor with unowned land, then nobody else can come along and mix their labor and claim ownership.
> 
> 
> 
> Since when is grazing "labor"



Is watching your cows graze all that ranchers do? I myself am not a rancher, and claim no expertise on the subject of ranching, but it seems to me that there's far more to it than simply letting your herd roam. Regardless, if you can find somebody with a better claim to having mixed their labor with the land then I'd be willing to hear about it. Unfortunately, it almost certainly is not going to be the federal government who does not engage in any actual labor.


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## regent (Apr 10, 2014)

Land ownership is becoming complicated. Columbus just planted a flag and claimed all the land as belonging to Spain, now we have to put grazing animals on land to declare ownership.    
If one can claim land because his animals eat the produce of the land, how about the opposite, can I claim my neighbor's yard if my dog craps there? 
Maybe some rules should be created regarding land ownership. sort of like we do with automobiles?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

Here is a video I found in a newstory today about Bundy Ranch.  Apparently there was a sort of riot out there with protestors blocking the roads to keep backhoes from going in to kill and bury Mr. Bundy's cattle.  That was their claim.  You can watch the video and see what you think.  3/4 through video you see the law enforcement / fed agents withdrew and left peacefully.   Hope that is the end of it now.  

They should settle the matter in court - whoever is right - let a judge decide. 

 [ame=http://youtu.be/LhJ6H9vlEDA]Ranch Riot!! Bundy Ranch Protesters Tasered by Federal Agents and Attacked by K9's. - YouTube[/ame]



*  I didn't mention this before but I should have.  I think David Koresh was in the wrong to not be open and willing to talk to the authorities from the beginning.  He should have met with them openly and by not doing so he gave them reason to believe he was hiding something.  If the kids were endangered as the later reports indicated, that could have been a factor in deciding to go in.  I don't know as I didn't follow the story years ago.   Still in this matter all parties involved know it could be settled in court.  That is the right way to proceed. imo.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

hangover said:


> Next, the ranchers will want to graze their cattle in Yellowstone National Park for free, and kill all the Buffalo, deer and elk, so the cattle will have enough grass. I'm sure you wouldn't mind them grazing in your yard, huh.



Are you actually as stupid as your present yourself?

Do you live in an institution? I assume you need others to feed you.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

I really do fear for this man and his family's safety. Sadly, I don't think Big Brother would have any problem killing this man and his family over some grazing cattle. It just wouldn't surprise me these days.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> I really do fear for this man and his family's safety. Sadly, I don't think Big Brother would have any problem killing this man and his family over some grazing cattle. It just wouldn't surprise me these days.



They aren't there after him.  They are there to remove his cattle from the public lands, as a federal judge ordered him to do in 1998.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Here is a video I found in a newstory today about Bundy Ranch.  Apparently there was a sort of riot out there with protestors blocking the roads to keep backhoes from going in to kill and bury Mr. Bundy's cattle.  That was their claim.  You can watch the video and see what you think.  3/4 through video you see the law enforcement / fed agents withdrew and left peacefully.   Hope that is the end of it now.
> 
> They should settle the matter in court - whoever is right - let a judge decide.



It has been settled in court already.  In 1998, a federal judge ruled that Bundy had to stop grazing his cattle on public lands.  In 2013, another federal judge restated the same thing and authorized the removal of the cattle.

Bundy has refused to follow the federal judges orders and refused to remove his cattle.

The feds are removing the cattle.


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## Dot Com (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Now you know what happened to the farmers when Stalin took over.
> ...



she seldom does. Better you find that out sooner rather than later. She's a bitter, nativist, old rw hack spinster 

As to the OP, yeah, breaking the law is now approved by Repub-voters


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

[ame=http://youtu.be/LhJ6H9vlEDA]Ranch Riot!! Bundy Ranch Protesters Tasered by Federal Agents and Attacked by K9's. - YouTube[/ame]

In this riot video, Winter Born, they are accusing the law enforcement of bringing in back hoes - killing the cattle and burying them.   I do not see any evidence of this other than the claims of the protesters at this point as they continue to demand, what are the back hoes for?    I think they should settle it in court.  If the govt. killed all of Mr. Bundy's cattle that would be a major lawsuit I would think.   With the price of beef going up this does not make sense to kill perfectly healthy cattle and bury them.  There is nothing on tv about this story.  I checked.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > I really do fear for this man and his family's safety. Sadly, I don't think Big Brother would have any problem killing this man and his family over some grazing cattle. It just wouldn't surprise me these days.
> ...



Snipers surrounding the place? Yikes! I don't think they'll hesitate in killing him and his family if they get in the way. Just the way things are these days in this Police State. It's very sad.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

In the video you will see the law enforcement all left peacefully and drove away.   I didn't see any snipers in the video.  I believe this is the outer perimeter of Bundys ranch and the actual ranch is down the road.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Your homesteading argument is invalid in this case because "grazing" is not homesteading. Homesteading requires an application (since 1862) and residency. Since neither of these requirements were met in this case - the whole homestead discussion is moot.

As to Bundy being the "original owner" I think you are drawing an arbitrary line in time and saying "original" means 1880 and beyond. 

So, imho, your arguments have no basis in law or logic. But I still really like the way you disagree without being disagreeable. I'm not nearly as good at that as you are, but I'm gonna work on it.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Ranch Riot!! Bundy Ranch Protesters Tasered by Federal Agents and Attacked by K9's. - YouTube
> 
> In this riot video, Winter Born, they are accusing the law enforcement of bringing in back hoes - killing the cattle and burying them.   I do not see any evidence of this other than the claims of the protesters at this point as they continue to demand, what are the back hoes for?    I think they should settle it in court.  If the govt. killed all of Mr. Bundy's cattle that would be a major lawsuit I would think.   With the price of beef going up this does not make sense to kill perfectly healthy cattle and bury them.  There is nothing on tv about this story.  I checked.



It has already been settled in court.   A federal judge ruled that Bundy must stop grazing his cattle on the public lands.   The messed up part is that the judge made that ruling in 1998.  So for 16 years, not only has Bundy been grazing on public lands for free, he has been in violation of a court ruling.  Another judge reaffirmed the ruling in July of last year.

Now, if the feds do slaughter all his cattle and bury them, it is no one's fault but the rancher who ignored the court orders for 16 years.

But I have not seen any evidence that that is there intention.  But what it boils down to is, if you leave your property where it does not belong and where you have been told to remove it from, you really have no complaint about the way the land owner removes it.  Especially when they have given you 16 years to get it.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

Sorry, Paultician, I didn't see that the same video is in your link / op.   My error.


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## regent (Apr 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Not too long ago the Republican battle cry was "Law and Order" it was even part of their campaign for I think the Goldwater try at the president.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a video I found in a newstory today about Bundy Ranch.  Apparently there was a sort of riot out there with protestors blocking the roads to keep backhoes from going in to kill and bury Mr. Bundy's cattle.  That was their claim.  You can watch the video and see what you think.  3/4 through video you see the law enforcement / fed agents withdrew and left peacefully.   Hope that is the end of it now.
> ...



So the authorization to remove the cattle only came in 2013.
So that pretty much shoots down gramps' contention that the non-enforcement for "so long" means the Feds should ignore the court's decision.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> In the video you will see the law enforcement all left peacefully and drove away.   I didn't see any snipers in the video.  I believe this is the outer perimeter of Bundys ranch and the actual ranch is down the road.



It is NOT on his ranch.  The feds are surrounding the 600,000 acres of public land, on which Bundy has been grazing his cattle for free for 21 years.  And from where he was supposed to remove his cattle 16 years ago, according to a federal judge's ruling.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> In the video you will see the law enforcement all left peacefully and drove away.   I didn't see any snipers in the video.  I believe this is the outer perimeter of Bundys ranch and the actual ranch is down the road.



Let's hope you're right and it ends peacefully. But one thing i've learned over the years is that Big Brother doesn't like to be challenged or lose. They won't hesitate in killing this man or his family over some grazing cattle. That is very sad, but it is what it is.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Here is a video I found in a newstory today about Bundy Ranch.  Apparently there was a sort of riot out there with protestors blocking the roads to keep backhoes from going in to kill and bury Mr. Bundy's cattle.  That was their claim.  You can watch the video and see what you think.  3/4 through video you see the law enforcement / fed agents withdrew and left peacefully.   Hope that is the end of it now.
> 
> They should settle the matter in court - whoever is right - let a judge decide.
> 
> ...



How bout we let the people of Nevada decide and not some political judge?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Snipers?   Who said anything about snipers surrounding the public lands?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Ranch Riot!! Bundy Ranch Protesters Tasered by Federal Agents and Attacked by K9's. - YouTube
> ...



You make a good point, Winter Born, but how do we know the facts of this case when the people on the video say news media told them they were ordered to stay away from the story?   Why isn't FOX news reporting it?  CNN?   I believe the administration has made an error in judgment by not allowing the story to run on a mainstream media station.  If the administration is not telling the mainstream news media to not report the story then why aren't they reporting it?  

Where there is no transparency people are suspicous.  There needs to be transparency and tell the full story of what happened and what is happening now.  This is America and this is how it should be done.  imo.


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## Moonglow (Apr 10, 2014)

Just tell that rancher there is plenty of hay for sale here, that they will ship to him....


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Well, if this free-loading cowboy makes good on his threat to wage a range war - it will not end well for him or anyone else he dupes into the fray. How peaceful this thing goes down is up to Bundy.

Sidenote: How come there are three different threads on this issue? Is someone hyping it - like the right wing militia types?


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



That the government has tried to redefine homesteading to make it necessary to get their permission to do so does not change the fact that this land was clearly homesteaded by the ranchers, because, again, I think more goes into being a rancher than simply allowing your herd to roam. Regardless, so far we've had nobody come up with a person or party with a better claim to the land than the ranchers.

As for not being disagreeable, I wish I was better at it, but I appreciate your comments nonetheless.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a video I found in a newstory today about Bundy Ranch.  Apparently there was a sort of riot out there with protestors blocking the roads to keep backhoes from going in to kill and bury Mr. Bundy's cattle.  That was their claim.  You can watch the video and see what you think.  3/4 through video you see the law enforcement / fed agents withdrew and left peacefully.   Hope that is the end of it now.
> ...



The people of Nevada?   You want to have an election to decide whether to enforce federal law?

And since it is federal lands, shouldn't the rest of the states have a say too??   How about a national referendum concerning whether one rancher is allowed to ignore federal law?


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## PredFan (Apr 10, 2014)

I am finding it hard to side with the rancher. He was breaking the law and he knew it. WTF did he think was going to happen?


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

Keep in mind People, in this Police State most would dutifully justify their beloved Big Brother murdering Citizens over some grazing cattle. That's just the sad state of affairs in this Police State.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

I have not passed judgment on who is right or wrong. Simply gathering facts from the "media" and passing judgment is ignorant. There are stories that state the powers that be in Nevada are on the ranchers side. Likewise there are stories he is in the wrong. 
Bottom line is NONE OF US are knowledgeable of all the facts yet here most of us sit passing judgment as if we do. 
Automatically taking the side of the government seems very dangerous to me.


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## JakeStarkey (Apr 10, 2014)

Please merge these threads.

Let's deal with the rancher's thieving from We the People in one thread.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I read that in one of the off the trail news blogs too!  There were no snipers in the video however.  So this is once again why it would behoove the federal government to get with the program here and have FOX News, CNN , whoever report the story and give the history on the case.  It would go a long way in diffusing any unnecessary paranoia that escalates into some Waco event.    It is obvious that a public news story would calm the people down.  They should do it immediately if not sooner.  It's using Wisdom.   imo.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Both sides agree that Bundy hasn't paid the required grazing fees since 1993.

Both sides agree that in 1998 a federal judge ruled that Bundy had to stop grazing his cattle on public land.

There is no disagreement that Bundy never removed his cattle.

As far as I am concerned, Bundy has no say in how his cattle are removed now.  He abandoned them years ago.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



So I am gathering that your arguments are based on what you think the laws ought to be and not based on existing law - is that correct?

Because clearly, existing law doesn't support the homesteading claim and has not since well before Bundy's family started allowing their cattle to roam this land. And since the Federal Government paid Mexico for this land (they may have even gotten a receipt - we can check  ) I think that creates a far better case for the Feds than for a farmer who got free grazing land for a while.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Keep in mind People, in this Police State most would dutifully justify their beloved Big Brother murdering Citizens over some grazing cattle. That's just the sad state of affairs in this Police State.



Police State???    WTF???

This freeloading rancher has been feeding his commercial cattle operation off OUR lands, and has refused to pay the fees.  He was also ordered to remove his cattle from public lands.  He has not done so for 16 years!!

If you steal from the people for 21 years, and ignore the law for 16 years, shit is eventually gonna happen.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Yeah, gramps' idea that federal land management is a state issue, as well as his contention that since it took the Fed's at least 11 months to act on the authorization to remove the cattle means they have to back off, are dying a slow painful death.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I wouldn't phrase it as such, but I suppose that's a fair assessment of my position.

Though in response I would say that the federal government simply makes laws in an attempt to benefit itself and its cronies. In this case, we see that perversion of principles of property ownership by the law have created a scenario whereby the government is claiming the right to go after a person's livelihood. And I would say there's no reason we should defend something simply because it's a law.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Keep in mind People, in this Police State most would dutifully justify their beloved Big Brother murdering Citizens over some grazing cattle. That's just the sad state of affairs in this Police State.



LOL - thieves are now "victims" of a police state ??????????????


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## PredFan (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Keep in mind People, in this Police State most would dutifully justify their beloved Big Brother murdering Citizens over some grazing cattle. That's just the sad state of affairs in this Police State.



 Sorry, I didn't know that someone was murdered over this. Got a link?


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## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



As is free-loading on the People's dime.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind People, in this Police State most would dutifully justify their beloved Big Brother murdering Citizens over some grazing cattle. That's just the sad state of affairs in this Police State.
> ...



Sadly, you sound like one of those sad dupes who would dutifully justify Big Brother murdering this man and his family over some grazing cattle. And unfortunately, you're far from being alone on that thinking. Big Brother needs his worshippers. And Lord knows, he has plenty at this point. So sad.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

It amazes me how few people understand the facts in this case, but are all too ready to jump in and pass judgement.


Fact #1 - The feds have NOT surrounded the Bundy ranch.  They have surrounded the 600,000 acres of public land that Bundy has been stealing feed from.

Fact #2 - Even Bundy admits that he owes $300,000 in grazing fees.

Fact #3 - A federal judge ruled in 1998 that Bundy must STOP grazing his cattle on the public land.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

PredFan said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind People, in this Police State most would dutifully justify their beloved Big Brother murdering Citizens over some grazing cattle. That's just the sad state of affairs in this Police State.
> ...



Didn't make that claim. Got a link?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



11 months? Why so unfactual? The government has been fighting with this man for YEARS.

Nodogmyass


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Because grass that regrows without human or monetary intervention is costing us what?

Why does the fucking government have to charge us for every damn thing they can? What's next, oxygen use surcharges?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



The alternative is even worse.

In the United States we traditionally respect the rule of law. It's why we've enjoyed peaceful democratic transitions of power for 150 years. It's why the most lethal guy in the area isn't allowed to make the rules.

Do we trade some freedoms - yep. Do those in power sometimes abuse the power we give them - oh yeah.

But in practical, realistic terms, I still think it's the best alternative. If enough people believe the way you do, then we have the power to write laws to reform the worst parts of this trade-off. Are the others gonna make it easy? Nope. But if enough people feel strongly enough about it, there are peaceful ways to fix things.

Grabbing your gun and inviting your neighbors to join you in a range war - like this guy did - is not (imho) a method of addressing grievances that I can agree with. If we are going to maintain a civilized society, we have to respect the law, at least enough to get it changed in the legal, peaceful ways our founders put at our disposal.


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## farmer (Apr 10, 2014)

It wasn't that many years ago that this could of been handled a lot easier. the sherrif just would have drove to the Bundys and said I've got a court order for you to get your cattle out.
Now with all the nuts out there the LEOs have to walk a fine line to keep this from turning into a disaster.
All because one guy decided he didn't want to abide by the rules, now we are going to spend a shitpot of time and money. I hope it ends well and nobody gets hurt or worse.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Oh hell no.  Don't even try to paint me as a dupe, when you didn't even know whether the feds had surrounded the Bundy ranch or public lands.

Yes, there are plenty of cases where the feds have overstepped their bounds by huge margins.   This ain't one of those times.

This rancher is NOT a victim of any "Police State".  If he were, he wouldn't have been grazing his cattle on public lands for 21 years without paying the required grazing fees.  And he would not have spent the last 16 years ignoring a court order for him to remove his cattle from the public lands.

If you steal from the people, ignore court orders, and continue to violate federal law and expect no consequences.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

The story I heard was the tortoise was endangered and that was the reason.  So where does the turtle fit into this story again and why does the federal government not think the American people would be interested to know what is going on with our own land?    PUBLIC LAND.    Where's the mainstream news story and why are we stuck getting our news from youtube videos and off beat news blogs??    

What is the big secret and why keep it from the public when it is their land / money in dispute??


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



The courts authorization to remove the cattle came in 1993 - which means - by definition that the Feds could not have delayed by more than 11 months 29 days.

Those are facts.

Insults are opinion - and you are entitled to them. But don't mistake them for facts.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



So we should just let this guy run a commercial cattle operation on public lands for free??   Yeah, I guess that would be a nice deal if you were the rancher.  If you were living downstream and had to deal with the run-off from the erosion from over-grazing, it might not be such a great deal.

This not about the gov't soaking citizens.  This is about a rancher wanting to graze for free on land he doesn't own.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

It is quite apparent you do have a dog in this fight - so in the words of Eric Holder......don't even go there, nodoginfight.

You were the first to panic about two different persons posting similar threads and demanded a merger.  As if no news on the television were not enough - two threads are some major threat or something?   Why such concern about it?    I've seen many similar threads and never demanded a merger before.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



You really so sure he's not a victim of this Police State? Maybe you should read up a bit more on the story? Just a suggestion anyway.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind People, in this Police State most would dutifully justify their beloved Big Brother murdering Citizens over some grazing cattle. That's just the sad state of affairs in this Police State.
> ...



Who are the real 'Thieves' in this? I'm inclined to say Big Brother is the thief. Read up a bit more on the story.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> It amazes me how few people understand the facts in this case, but are all too ready to jump in and pass judgement.
> 
> 
> Fact #1 - The feds have NOT surrounded the Bundy ranch.  They have surrounded the 600,000 acres of public land that Bundy has been stealing feed from.
> ...



IMHO - the sheer volume of threads and the general lack of information about the issues involved by those who are starting the threads leads me to believe that some right-wing militia - type organization has released an "action alert" trying to whip people up into a frenzy about this.

Have you noticed all the Waco and Ruby Ridge references? I don't think that is an accident - I think they were prompted by the action alert. The Turner Diaries crowd is trying to whip the faithful into a frenzy so they'll grab their guns and rush off to this guys ranch to try to ignite the civil war they've been fantasizing about for so long.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> It is quite apparent you do have a dog in this fight - so in the words of Eric Holder......don't even go there, nodoginfight.
> 
> You were the first to panic about two different persons posting similar threads and demanded a merger.  As if no news on the television were not enough - two threads are some major threat or something?   Why such concern about it?    I've seen many similar threads and never demanded a merger before.



First off, there are 3 threads on this topic.

And the story isn't big news because most people see that the rancher has ignored the laws, the feds, and court rulings for 20+ years.  Now the feds are moving his cattle.

Those trying to make this about a police state, property rights, or just sensationalizing it are the ones doing a disservice.  

All this "They are taking food from starving children!" or "I hope they don't slaughter him and his family since they have surrounded his ranch" are simply showing their ignorance.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> You really so sure he's not a victim of this Police State?



No.  I think you're a victim of lead paint.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> The story I heard was the tortoise was endangered and that was the reason.  So where does the turtle fit into this story again and why does the federal government not think the American people would be interested to know what is going on with our own land?    PUBLIC LAND.    Where's the mainstream news story and why are we stuck getting our news from youtube videos and off beat news blogs??
> 
> What is the big secret and why keep it from the public when it is their land / money in dispute??



Maybe Big Brother is scared that many Americans would decide to come to the aid of this man and his family. It's probably best for him to keep it on the DL.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> It is quite apparent you do have a dog in this fight - so in the words of Eric Holder......don't even go there, nodoginfight.
> 
> You were the first to panic about two different persons posting similar threads and demanded a merger.  As if no news on the television were not enough - two threads are some major threat or something?   Why such concern about it?    I've seen many similar threads and never demanded a merger before.



Your facts are all screwed up

One - I never asked for the merger - I support the idea, but I never asked for it.
Two - I commented on three different threads, not two.

So other than misinformation and silly little screen name jabs (read my signature) do you have anything of substance to add?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



I have read up on the story.

This guy stopped paying his grazing fees in 1993.  A federal judge ruled in 1998 that he must stop grazing on public lands.  He has never stopped feeding his commercial cattle operation off of public lands.  Now the feds are there to remove his cattle.

What part of that is inaccurate?

And what part of that signifies a "Police State" to you?


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > You really so sure he's not a victim of this Police State?
> ...



That's cool. You have your beliefs and opinions. But maybe read up a bit more on this story. It goes a back a long time. Who's really the 'Thief' and 'Criminal' here? Something to contemplate...If you dare.


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## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



This is NOT that man's land.  He was leasing the right to graze his cattle.  He decided to not pay his rent.   That's ok with you, now?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



The real thieves??

The real thief is the rancher who has been grazing on public land and refusing to pay the required fees.  He has been stealing food for his cattle for 21 years.

What is it that you think the gov't is stealing?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > You really so sure he's not a victim of this Police State?
> ...



OK, that is just funny. I typically don't go in for the insulting post - and apologies to paulitician - but that made me snort water I was drinking out of my nose.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Read up a bit more on the story. It goes back a long long way. It may or may not change your perception of the issue. But check it out. Is he really the 'Thief' or 'Criminal' in this?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



If you dare, please point out what the gov't is stealing?

Yes, this story does go back a long way.  And it started when the BLM increased the grazing fees.   How often have those fees been increased?  And how much of an increase was it?

You claim to know so much about the story, feel free to bring facts to the discussion instead of vague insinuations.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



I have obviously read a lot farther back than you have.

Sorry dude, you're backing the wrong horse here.

Unless you favor generational welfare

or did the "action alert" not contain all that info?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



As I have said, I have read much of the story.  I have also invited you to provide anything you know that would contradict what I have said.  But instead, you stick with vague insinuations and challenges to "read more".

Feel free to offer some actual facts at any time.

I have shown what the rancher is stealing.  And he has been stealing it for 21 years.

What is the gov't stealing??


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

It wasn't public land owned by the federal government until 1993 when the government seized open range.   

If the obama regime doesn't slaughter this family outright now, then they will certainly have accidents until they are all gone.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Come on, Pauli.  Give us some of the wisdom you have gleaned from your thorough research of this topic.

What have I stated that was inaccurate?   How is anyone but the rancher stealing??


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It wasn't public land owned by the federal government until 1993 when the government seized open range.
> 
> If the obama regime doesn't slaughter this family outright now, then they will certainly have accidents until they are all gone.



It was public land before 1993.  Bundy paid the grazing fees until he got mad that they were raising them.  If it wasn't public land, why was Bundy paying grazing fees?


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

By God, Tom Horn would do something about this.  (there's a joke in there)


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> If the obama regime doesn't slaughter this family outright now, then they will certainly have accidents until they are all gone.



What a load of crap!!   Let me guess, you think the feds are going to kill the family while they have them surrounded???


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > It amazes me how few people understand the facts in this case, but are all too ready to jump in and pass judgement.
> ...



I KNEW IT!
They even used the words "Action Alert"

Last Man Standing: Armed Feds Surround Nevada Rancher?s Property

It contains all of the common misinformation that these threads begin with - like the feds are surrounding this guys ranch, etc ...


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## ClosedCaption (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Ranch Riot!! Bundy Ranch Protesters Tasered by Federal Agents and Attacked by K9's. - YouTube
> ...



Not only did you destroy OP on page 1 but OP destroyed himself with his overacting typing "God help him" in the first sentence.

Alas...The full story and also I need to add.  This was started by Lovebear.  Lovebear is always wrong


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Depends on the facts. And since I don't think any of us have the facts I can't answer your question.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

but shouldn't they just confiscate his cattle and have a judge give them "title" so they can be sold to a feedlot, and the money go to the BLM?

the price of steak is too damn high.  (-:


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



And yet our founders also knew the value of breaking the law, hence the fact that we're an independent nation.


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## rightwinger (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



If he owned the land this would have been resolved 20 years ago


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Oddly enough - some of us DO have many facts - including who owns the land these cattle are being removed from.

What has happened here is that some right-wing militia-type organization has released an "action alert" with a lot of misinformation in an effort to whip up the faithful.

Last Man Standing: Armed Feds Surround Nevada Rancher?s Property 

It includes all the common misinformation that so many are repeating here. And none of the FACTS that so many are claiming ignorance on. The facts are readily available for those who are interested. For those who are not interested in facts, only talking points - they can stick to their "action alerts."


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



We have enough facts to make a determination.

1) The rancher stopped paying the grazing fee in 1993.  
2) In 1998, a federal judge ruled that the rancher had to stop grazing on the public lands and had to remove his cattle.
3) The rancher has not complied and his cattle are still grazing on public lands for free.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Our founders also learned from their experiences about the value of creating peaceful and lawful avenues for addressing grievances that were not at their disposal.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> but shouldn't they just confiscate his cattle and have a judge give them "title" so they can be sold to a feedlot, and the money go to the BLM?
> 
> the price of steak is too damn high.  (-:



They have contractors in right now removing the cattle.  With +/-900 head, it is not an easy task.  And due to the harassment from locals, it is going even slower.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > but shouldn't they just confiscate his cattle and have a judge give them "title" so they can be sold to a feedlot, and the money go to the BLM?
> ...



I like the idea of going to the nearest military base and throwing a huge barbecue.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

Look for the big T-Word to be thrown around by Big Brother real soon. Those darn cattle grazer thieves!! They're a threat to our American way of life dammit! 

Better get em off to GITMO.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

The arab spring in Tunisia started with one guy opposing an unjust law.  The American Revolution started with one man, firing a musket at a government bent on enforcing unjust laws.

If this evil regime sees the tide turning against it, they will not hesitate to bomb this little ranch.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



That's correct, but, again, they knew those avenues could fail and be co-opted. The trouble is that we all seem to disagree whether that's what's happened.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



That's quite a selective recitation of the facts.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Look for the big T-Word to be thrown around by Big Brother real soon. Those darn cattle grazer thieves!! They're a threat to our American way of life dammit!
> 
> Better get em off to GITMO.



Now you're just losing it man.

Why not just go ahead and admit that you got manipulated into a position by folks who only gave you a small sliver of the story and now you've been brought up to date and you realize you were wrong.

I could respect that.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Look for the big T-Word to be thrown around by Big Brother real soon. Those darn cattle grazer thieves!! They're a threat to our American way of life dammit!
> 
> Better get em off to GITMO.



It would certainly be easier than looking for you to actually post facts.  You seem woefully incapable of doing that.

The man is stealing food for his cattle off of public lands.

You have insinuated that the gov't is stealing and that the rancher is not.  Do you have any facts to go along with that?  Or should we just assume you are posting bullshit and trying to look like you know something?


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

Watch the conservatives pin a medal on this guy for stealing from the US government. Why stop there? Elevate counterfeiters to sainthood!


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



If you have more, feel free to post them.

I listed the facts that have brought us to the point that feds have to provide protection for contractors removing Bundy's cattle from public lands.

Oh, and yeah I know you want the lands to be Bundy's.  But current laws concerning property do not see it that way.  I have no problem with you changing the laws.  But until those laws are changed, I'll stick with the reality of who owns the land in question.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Because grass that regrows without human or monetary intervention is costing us what?
> 
> Why does the fucking government have to charge us for every damn thing they can? What's next, oxygen use surcharges?



So far I've said nothing on this issue, instead focusing on the scumbags praising the murder of women and children at Waco.

But, while you're argument has merit, why would Bundy not comply with the law, and fight the issue in court and in the press? 

Two federal judges have issued orders, he must comply. That doesn't mean give up, but he must comply while fighting in court. We are a nation of laws. My biggest complaint about the Obamunists is their open contempt for the law.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



I don't see disagreement as "trouble." It's American. Heck disagreeing (and loudly) is one of the most American things I can think of.

The only trouble with disagreement - is when you live in a representative democracy and a majority disagrees with you. Sometimes it sucks to be in the minority.

The solution is to convince people that your way is right.

I just don't think grabbing a gun and inviting your neighbors to join you in your range war is gonna win too many people over to the cause.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Because grass that regrows without human or monetary intervention is costing us what?
> ...



I stated earlier that this should be resolved in court not at gunpoint.  
If the man is in contempt throw him in jail. STEALING his family's livelihood & property is not the solution.


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## paulitician (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Look for the big T-Word to be thrown around by Big Brother real soon. Those darn cattle grazer thieves!! They're a threat to our American way of life dammit!
> ...



All i can say is, read up a bit more on this story. It goes back a long long way. Who is the 'Thief' and 'Criminal' in this? Read up a bit more, you may be surprised to find your perception changing on this. Check it out.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Horseshit.  That is not all you can say.   You can actually say what you read that changes anything.

Oh, if you do some research, you might find that the land in question is one of only 2 access points for the people who inhabit the inner earth.  And it is needed by the Venusians ad the Martians for trade purposes.  The whole "cattle grazing" is just a smoke screen.

There, now I have actually posted more info than you have, Pauli, and with just as much evidence.


Either discuss facts or sit down and let the grownups talk.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Stealing????   WTH?   He was ordered by a federal judge to remove his livelihood and property from the public lands *16 freakin years ago.*   He has ignored it for 16 years.  He has made a living off the cows fed on stolen grass for all that time.

His fine is the cattle he left on public land.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



I will NEVER be fine with our government taking private property away from its citizens


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

> I stated earlier that this should be resolved in court not at gunpoint.



It was.

But this rancher grabbed his gun and vowed to wage a range war.

He better back off or it will not end well for him.


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## ClosedCaption (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Good catch...Paulitician and Lovebear dont know shit about the case but were instructed by talking points to get mad.

And just like a trained dog...They did what they were told by the action alert


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## boilermaker55 (Apr 10, 2014)

Wait! Here is some of  your own medicine.
This story is from...........conservativetribune...and we are suppose to put
credence into their truth telling.
Not even.




Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...


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## boilermaker55 (Apr 10, 2014)

Didn't you once claim eminent domain for the keystone pipe line





Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

I've decided to build a house on the edge of the Grand Canyon, in the national Park. The view will be terrific! I suspect that I can get away with it for 16 years, which works for me, at my age....


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



What do you call an income tax? What do you call sales tax?
Is your money your private property?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> I've decided to build a house on the edge of the Grand Canyon, in the national Park. The view will be terrific! I suspect that I can get away with it for 16 years, which works for me, at my age....



Better yet, make it a hotel. Heck it's free whether you are a commercial enterprise or not.
Maybe connect a brothel and an abortion clinic - why not - it's FREE.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

Let's remove the ranchers from the equation for a second, and discuss where the federal government got its claim to the land. I don't think we've adequately explained where their supposed right to this land comes from. We can obviously rule out the idea that the U.S. government homesteaded the land.

Some people have mentioned the Mexican War, which rests on the assumption that the U.S. government owns this land because it violently took this land from the Mexican government and paid them a pittance for it, but this fails any kind of logical test. I'll go back to my computer, if I had simply walked into the store, punched the sales person in the nose, given them a $10 bill and walked out with the computer would I have a right to this computer? Obviously not. So how does force create a legitimate claim in one scenario, but not in another? Furthermore, it's not clear that the Mexican government had any legitimate claim to the land in the first place, because chances are they simply used force to take it as well.

However, if we accept that force is a legitimate means to acquire property, then what exactly is the problem with what's going on with the ranchers now? The Bundys have rounded up a posse and are attempting to take that land by force from the federal government. If we accept that force is legitimate, then the only logical position to take from there is that we have to wait and see which side wins the fight before we can say that they do or do not have a legitimate claim to the land.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I've listed, along with several others, relevant facts several times over in this thread. You're simply ignoring them.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Yes it is and they steal it every chance they get.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Please show where his family ever OWNED the land in question?


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

Well, color me curious, but I do know (or think I do) that the BLM issues some grazing permits for "private land."  But I thought these grazing lands were lands that came with a title that sort of grandfathered in the BLM having management responsibilities.

From what I see, this rancher at best had forefathers who grazed land on public lands before the Talyor Grazing Act came about to begin regulating grazing on public land.  If that's the case, I don't see how the guy has a complaint.  I mean ranchers are mad that the BLM protects endangered animals, and on the other extreme they're mad that the BLM lets oil companies on the same land cattle are grazing on.  He may not like the turtle, but his real redress is to get Orin Hatch to raise a stink.  I suspect the BLM would tell Mike Lee to take a running leap in the great salt lake .... with an anvil.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



All I have seen you argue is ownership of the land.  That is not actually in question under the current property laws.


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## Edgetho (Apr 10, 2014)

ClosedCaption said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Like the good little Nazi you are, you come to the defense of your Nazi masters every time.

Das Government Uber Alles, huh Fritz?

Scumbag.

How can Cattle steal food?  Explain that to me, douchebag.

They eat grass.  If anything, it helps the grass to be eaten down a little bit.

Then the cattle shit the grass they ate back onto the ground.

How does that qualify as stealing, Nazi?

Now, I haven't kept up on the Open Range Laws in Federal Statutes, but the last I checked, if the government hadn't set the land aside for a specific purpose beneficial to the Public Good, Open Range Laws apply.

What a fucking Nazi you truly are.

But.... You're a dimocrap.  Your entire movement is based in Nazi ideology.

You're just too stupid to know it


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## ClosedCaption (Apr 10, 2014)

You're trying to make this about Cattle theft


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## Edgetho (Apr 10, 2014)

Here, this should give our resident Nazi dimocraps a boner....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qKhRV0lfh4E]Federal Agents Taser Protesters at Bundy Ranch Protest - YouTube[/ame]


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



And there are grazing fees associated with using public lands for feeding privately owned cattle.   Since Bundy stopped paying those fees 21 years ago, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



They are stealing his cattle. And I know you'll call it something else so don't even bother


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## ClosedCaption (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > ClosedCaption said:
> ...


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> Here, this should give our resident Nazi dimocraps a boner....
> 
> Federal Agents Taser Protesters at Bundy Ranch Protest - YouTube



No, no boner here.  But the rancher grazed his cattle without paying the required fees for 21 years.  And he was ordered by a federal judge to remove his cattle from the public lands almost 16 years ago.   

He refused to remove his cattle from lands that were not owned by him.  So the feds will remove the cattle.  The protestors do not have the right to stop that removal of cattle from public lands.


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## Edgetho (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > ClosedCaption said:
> ...



Another good little Nazi.

Why don't you do some research on this topic instead of immediately jumping to the defense of your Nazi masters?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



He was told by a federal judge to remove his cattle from the public lands.  And he was told this 16 years ago.   He refused to comply, so the feds are removing the cattle for him.

It is not theft.  He had 16 years to move the cattle and he elected NOT to do so.


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Is Janet Reno advising them how to handle this situation? She's a pro.


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## Avatar4321 (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.



I don't think anyone was accusing the FBI as being peaceful american citizens.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



Oh great, another wannabe anarchist claiming to know more facts and that I would be sympathetic to the rancher if I knew them too.

Tel us these facts.  Skip the insinuations and give us facts.  Or be like Pauli and just pretend there are facts.

It is not disputed that the land in question is public land.  Even the rancher agrees it is.

It is not disputed that the man hasn't paid the grazing fees in 21 years.

It is not disputed that a federal judge ruled that the rancher had to stop grazing his cattle on public lands.

It is not disputed that the judge ruled that he had to remove his cattle from public lands.

It is not disputed that the man refused to stop grazing on public lands and that he defied the judge by keeping his 900 head of cattle on public lands.




So what facts change the situation???


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## ClosedCaption (Apr 10, 2014)

Edge suddenly left this thread and cannot return, if urgent please hit zero to speak with an operator


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

This is not about the desert tortoise. It's not about the cattle or the back money owed. I'm working on it. It's solar plant developments from what I'm zooming in on right now.


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## Edgetho (Apr 10, 2014)

» Before Nevada Cattle Rancher Standoff, BLM Killed Hundreds of Endangered Desert Tortoises Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!



> &#8220;My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley ever since 1877. All these rights I claim have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and water. I have been here longer. My rights are before the BLM even existed,&#8221; Bundy said.



But now, being lying scumbag dimocrap Nazis, they invent an 'environMENTAL' excuse to go after Bundy.

Which simply doesn't wash:



> All of this illustrates how the BLM&#8217;s dispute with Mr. Bundy has nothing to do with saving or protecting tortoises (most of which were given to the facility by people who owned them as pets, and which the BLM is either killing or releasing into the wild &#8211; animals raised in captivity don&#8217;t usually fare well in the wild) as they claim, and everything to do with making an example out of Mr. Bundy for having the gall to stand up for his property, *bullying him into submission by brute force*.



Ever notice how dimocrap scum ALWAYS take the side of government?  Just like their ideological predecessors, the Nazis, before them?  

It's not a coincidence, people.

Right, wrong or indifferent... It's not a coincidence


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> » Before Nevada Cattle Rancher Standoff, BLM Killed Hundreds of Endangered Desert Tortoises Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He claims his rights predate the BLM.   And you think that is legitimate??    Yes, his family grazed cattle all over in the late 1800s.   Congrats.  My grandfather had hogs that he let loose and then caught in the fall.   That practice is no longer legal.   Nor is free-grazing legal on those public lands.   Just because your family has been here a long time does not mean you can ignore laws passed.   

I am not one to want more gov't intrusion into our lives.  But this is about one rancher defying the laws and court orders.  It is about him wanting to USE the lands without paying taxes on them or even claiming ownership.

If he wanted his cattle he should have moved them off the public land sometime in the previous 16 years.

If I park my car on a public street and I am told I have to move it, if I don't comply they will tow it.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

ClosedCaption said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Easy to spot the sheep. They rant and rave that everyone else doesn't know enough about this issue when all they can do is spout personal insults and the distortions and misinformation from the action alert issued by their masters.

If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > It is quite apparent you do have a dog in this fight - so in the words of Eric Holder......don't even go there, nodoginfight.
> ...



It isn't big news because it has been kept OUT OF THE NEWS.  Completely!  That is the reason it isn't big news. WB.  Lets stay with the facts here!  As to the claims of the rancher vs claims of govt..  The american people deserve to hear all the facts of the story. Whatever they may be and not off of a homemade  youtube video!


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Here we go. Interesting combo. Get rid of the rancher And his cattle Build solar plants in the desert and the BLM makes a fortune and expands their power.

Why do people believe the hype the government gives them? This is bullshit. 

*A new Nevada pilot project offers one clue: Companies in the Dry Lake solar energy zone will pay fees to restore lands in the nearby Gold Butte Area of Critical Environmental Concern. Mitigation projects are also planned for the Bureau of Land Management's other 18 solar zones. 

Interior's efforts have cautious support from industry, which anticipates more streamlined permitting. Some environmental groups are pleased as well &#8211; as long as the companies pay a fair price.*

The Latest: Nevada charges renewable energy companies for eco mitigation ? High Country News


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Edgetho said:
> 
> 
> > » Before Nevada Cattle Rancher Standoff, BLM Killed Hundreds of Endangered Desert Tortoises Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
> ...



Well, at least we've come to the end of what is fueling the RW posts.  Because his ancestors used the public land (or water or air) he should be free to do whatever he pleases with the public land, regardless of the damage he does to it, or the harm his use does to adjacent landowners/permit holders.  

In short, the gummit is bad and we demand anarchy.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



There have been several TV news videos posted.   

If you do a Google search you will find articles and videos by Fox News, the LA Times, The Washington Post, ABC News, CNN, and more.

I don't think it is a secret.


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

It's a trade off they are making to put up the solar plants. Big Federal projects underway. 

*
RENEWABLE ENERGY:
Mojave project tests Interior strategy for stemming habitat losses

Phil Taylor, E&E reporter
Greenwire: Tuesday, January 28, 2014


MESQUITE, Nev. -- The Obama administration has begun a bold conservation experiment in a desert ripped several years ago by wildfires that charred native plants, fragmented critical tortoise habitat and created a foothold for noxious weeds.

The Bureau of Land Management is hoping the solar industry can help mend the ecological wounds.Gold Butte was chosen as a mitigation site for Dry Lake because it harbors similar plant and animal life, including the desert tortoise, and because it is ineligible for special funding available to BLM's National Landscape Conservation System.

In addition, Gold Butte's native creosote-bursage vegetation is expected to persist longer under climate change than other ACECs, and its tortoise habitat is expected to persist even as it shrinks or disappears in the surrounding region.

As acres are developed at Dry Lake, mitigation fees would help pay for restoration of similar acres at Gold Butte.

But establishing a fair mitigation price has proved to be a challenge.*

RENEWABLE ENERGY: Mojave project tests Interior strategy for stemming habitat losses -- Tuesday, January 28, 2014 -- www.eenews.net


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## Luddly Neddite (Apr 10, 2014)

Its time for an end to tax-payer subsidies. An end to welfare ranching. 

OR -

If tax payers have to support cattle ranchers, they should give the same support to other businesses.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

I guess it's a secret because HE just found out about it


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



  You keep insinuating that there is more to this story then we are aware of.
Please fill us in. 
  From what I've been able to find out the BLM has every right to kick the guy and his cattle off the land.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> I've decided to build a house on the edge of the Grand Canyon, in the national Park. The view will be terrific! I suspect that I can get away with it for 16 years, which works for me, at my age....



I suspect that the moment you break ground, you'll be tossed into the canyon.

Which works for me.......


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> It's a trade off they are making to put up the solar plants. Big Federal projects underway.
> 
> *Gold Butte was chosen as a mitigation site for Dry Lake because it harbors similar plant and animal life, including the desert tortoise, and because it is ineligible for special funding available to BLM's National Landscape Conservation System.
> 
> ...



Hold on now a minute, heah, Pilgrim.  The price of steak is too damn high.  Can't we just do some fracking and get on with the grilling?


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

We get back to green energy vs the environment and green energy has big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the government is selling out the desert.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Oh, and I am all for sticking to the facts.  

So far the people who are arguing against me have said:

"Food for starving children is going to turtles"
"The rancher actually owns the land"
"The feds are stealing his cattle"
This is bigger then you think, and soon they will call to have the rancher and protestors shipped off to GITMO"
"They want to kill the family.  Or make them disappear in accidents"


How about those for facts, huh?   I have stayed with the facts quite nicely, thank you.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Ok Kevin, you've posted a lot of your opinions about what you think property law OUGHT to be. But what FACTS have you posted that are in conflict with WinterBorn's ?

I haven't seen one and I've been following your posts.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



Yes, apparently if your family has been here long enough, you get to ignore all the rules, regulations, and laws that have been written since you got here.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



I'm very aware of the history.  I live an hour away.  It's been news here for a long time, unlike the rest of you who just found out about it a few days ago.


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



It's all about the solar plants and the financial trade off for taking desert land for green energy and giving BLM mega buckolas. Go back and read my posts.

And I've put up links. BTW my links are to conservation sites.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Avatar4321 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



Thank goodness. When it comes time to square off with crazy murdering cultists - I'm don't think we should rely on choir boys.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Venusians are such shady bastards too.  Can't trust them.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> We get back to green energy vs the environment and green energy has big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the government is selling out the desert.



Ok.  And since the gov't owns the land in question, which would be a better use for that public land?  

And as long as it is public land, the gov't gets to determine the uses for that land.


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > It's a trade off they are making to put up the solar plants. Big Federal projects underway.
> ...



I'll take mine medium rare.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



I know, right?   The Martians are ok, but you REALLY have to watch those Venusians.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 10, 2014)

Edgetho said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Edgetho said:
> ...



  If there is any info out there that I'm unaware of I'd like to hear it.
 Because truthfully I WANT to be on the ranchers side. 
 So if there is something that would change my mind I definitely want to know about it.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



the irony is that Utah pioneered the need to regulate private grazing on public land beginning around the late 1920s.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



EXACTLY - some posters who are getting ripped to shreds by the facts, keep trying to excuse their poor showing by claiming to know more and that if we only knew what THEY knew .....

and yet they can produce absolutely NOTHING.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > We get back to green energy vs the environment and green energy has big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the government is selling out the desert.
> ...




They aren't determining the use of the land - they seized his private property (cattle) and are selling it off.  The value is multiple $M.

That is THEFT.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



He was ordered by a federal judge to remove his cattle from the public lands.  For 16 years he has refused to do so.  He also refused to pay the grazing fees.

Since we don't know what they will do with the money, perhaps Bundy can sue for the balance, after they deduct for the 21 years of grazing fees and the fines for ignoring a court order for 16 years.

And as for them determining the use of the land, that was in response to someone posting that this all started because the gov't wants to build a solar energy plant.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



Same discredited talking points over and over and over and over.

You need to ask your masters to issue a new action alert that has better information and arguments that will survive scrutiny for more than 45 seconds.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



  If this turns out to be true it still doesnt give the guy the right to graze his cattle for free. Had he paid his grazing fees he would have a leg to stand on.
  However I'd be pissed about the deception used to remove him from the land so they could build solar energy plants on public land. I for one dont believe they should be able to build a solar plant on public lands,especially if they were using the desert tortoise as an excuse to get rid of him and his cattle.


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > We get back to green energy vs the environment and green energy has big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and the government is selling out the desert.
> ...



I just don't want a government to try to show how "green " they are whilst destroying a pristine environment.

They should just say "we have to fuck the environment over to get you energy but our _green way_of destroying a pristine environment is the better way".


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



I don't like that idea either.  And I would happily help campaign to change the laws so that cannot happen.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



You mean that "pristine" environment that has cow shit all over it?

Maybe the solar folks will pay their fees .......

But I'll believe it when I see the solar crap installed. Sounds like yet another conspiracy theory that is heavy on speculation and intrigue and light on facts and logic.

Besides - a conspiracy theory is not "facts." And the Facts of this case are crystal clear.

He owed grazing fees, he didn't pay them. He DESERVES to get his ass tossed no matter what the feds want to do with the land.

Should have paid his grazing fees - PERIOD.


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



It's the lie that pisses me off and that they think that people will just buy into the lie. Sadly too many do. 

I've spent the morning on and off just digging around because I had remembered the trade off the feds did to get that giant solar plant built that's frying birds who fly over it. 

I just have this thing about bullshit. I hate it.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



  A cow on average will sell for around a thousand bucks. The guy has 900 head.
He owes the BLM $300'000.
   I would think the BLM would have to return what ever monies are left after sale of the cattle minus the cost of removing them.


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## ScreamingEagle (Apr 10, 2014)

why is it the Feds are suddenly so concerned about some cattle grazing on public lands....especially during a drought when feed is scarce.....but they barely lift a finger against millions of illegals illegally grazing upon our public welfare.....?

it's weird...


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## Sallow (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



Seriously?

Now you care about birds?

Where was your care when oil and coal fire plants were killing them by the millions?

Or glass high rises?

Or electrical lines?

Or large ships?

Or Air Planes?

NOW? 

Really?


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...




Oh fucking bite me 

Cow shit is bad? As compared to coyote shit? Or tortoise shit? Or rabbit shit? Or bird shit?

I've already put up the links to the renewable energy projects that the feds have on the go. 

Do you even know about Ivanpah? Any clue?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Thank goodness. When it comes time to square off with crazy murdering cultists - I'm don't think we should rely on choir boys.



Who exactly did the Davidians murder, sploogy? Remember, a federal court ruled that the gun fight between the Davidians and the BAFT was NOT murder. So post a link of this alleged murder.

We wonder how the holocaust happened, but need only look to those like you who cheer as jack booted thugs shoot their neighbors down.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

ScreamingEagle said:


> why is it the Feds are suddenly so concerned about some cattle grazing on public lands....especially during a drought when feed is scarce.....but they barely lift a finger against millions of illegals illegally grazing upon our public welfare.....?
> 
> it's weird...



I brought that up a while back, with milk and beef shooting through the roof, the timing of this is very suspicious.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



They do not have a property right above and beyond a permit which is generally good for ten years.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...




That's only because the federal government seized land that should have remained in private hands in the first place.

The ranchers do have property rights regarding their cattle, which the Feds have stolen.


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## Serioususername (Apr 10, 2014)

Jesus Christ, I'm seeing a whole lot of contorting to try and make this seem like the Government or whomever is doing something wrong. He kept his stuff on Land that ISN'T HIS, if I park my car on your lawn you can have it towed because IT'S ON YOUR LAND. This is literally no different, except this idiot had 16 years time to comply. 

He's dumb, and finally it caught up to him, Cry me a river.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I made a list of facts as one of my first posts in the thread, and I also pointed out the fact that by any traditional definition of the term the ranchers had clearly homesteaded this land prior to the government claiming ownership of it. Now you can say that they legally changed what homestead means, but the fact is that this meets any criteria of homesteading that has existed prior to. Now opinions come into play when we say that we should be going by one or the other definition of homesteading.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Let's remove the ranchers from the equation for a second, and discuss where the federal government got its claim to the land. I don't think we've adequately explained where their supposed right to this land comes from. We can obviously rule out the idea that the U.S. government homesteaded the land.
> 
> Some people have mentioned the Mexican War, which rests on the assumption that the U.S. government owns this land because it violently took this land from the Mexican government and paid them a pittance for it, but this fails any kind of logical test. I'll go back to my computer, if I had simply walked into the store, punched the sales person in the nose, given them a $10 bill and walked out with the computer would I have a right to this computer? Obviously not. So how does force create a legitimate claim in one scenario, but not in another? Furthermore, it's not clear that the Mexican government had any legitimate claim to the land in the first place, because chances are they simply used force to take it as well.
> 
> However, if we accept that force is a legitimate means to acquire property, then what exactly is the problem with what's going on with the ranchers now? The Bundys have rounded up a posse and are attempting to take that land by force from the federal government. If we accept that force is legitimate, then the only logical position to take from there is that we have to wait and see which side wins the fight before we can say that they do or do not have a legitimate claim to the land.



Does nobody see this as being worth a discussion?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
> 
> 
> > why is it the Feds are suddenly so concerned about some cattle grazing on public lands....especially during a drought when feed is scarce.....but they barely lift a finger against millions of illegals illegally grazing upon our public welfare.....?
> ...



Except the legal battles over this guy's non-payment have been going on for more than a decade


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

No, because in theory we have evolved in concepts of how societies and people may acquire property.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Let's remove the ranchers from the equation for a second, and discuss where the federal government got its claim to the land. I don't think we've adequately explained where their supposed right to this land comes from. We can obviously rule out the idea that the U.S. government homesteaded the land.
> ...



Sure.  I think the discussion of property rights is very much worthy of discussion.

My only contention is that it has no bearing here.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> I guess it's a secret because HE just found out about it



SHE.  .....and it hasn't been on any news station today or yesterday - how did they miss such a huge story?    I'll google these fox videos WB says were on television.  We'll see. I'll be back!  ( God willing )


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



it's not theft if a judge has determined the BLM has a judgment for money damages against him, and if the judge has authorized seizure of the cattle to satisfy the judgment.  And I think that's what happened.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Let's remove the ranchers from the equation for a second, and discuss where the federal government got its claim to the land. I don't think we've adequately explained where their supposed right to this land comes from. We can obviously rule out the idea that the U.S. government homesteaded the land.
> ...



Kevin, the fact that we paid the Mexican government anything for the land makes it a lot better than how nations have acquired land historically - which is they take it by force. "The right of conquest."

By your logic, whichever organism climbed from the ocean first "owns" the land.

What is so illogical about the evolution of property law to you?


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it's a secret because HE just found out about it
> ...



You are a she and go by Jeremiah?   ok.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

Serioususername said:


> Jesus Christ, I'm seeing a whole lot of contorting to try and make this seem like the Government or whomever is doing something wrong. He kept his stuff on Land that ISN'T HIS, if I park my car on your lawn you can have it towed because IT'S ON YOUR LAND. This is literally no different, except this idiot had 16 years time to comply.
> 
> He's dumb, and finally it caught up to him, Cry me a river.




If you park your car where it is not allowed, it gets impounded and towed.  

In this case, the Feds confiscated his cattle to sell. That is THEFT.


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Just for those that haven't realized this has nothing to do with the tortoise here's a link that will show how so many conservationists are worried about the development of the desert.

As we all should be. We seem to fuck up everything we get hands on as humans. 

Ivanpah has a huge solar facility now that's frying birds in the air. But check it out. The feds let them use the land despite the endangered desert tortoise. 

*Within the Mojave, the Ivanpah Valley has been identified as a critical link between conservation areas for one of the region&#8217;s most endangered inhabitants, the desert tortoise. 

At the same time, the Ivanpah Valley is also under mounting pressure from development of many kinds, including such land use impacts as multiple high-acreage renewable energy projects, electricity and gas transmission lines, a wastewater treatment project, airport and a high-speed rail line.*

Ivanpah Valley Solar Projects Adding Up to Trouble - Defenders Blog


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

The land was open range.  The government declared it government land.  They didn't pay for it.  They didn't do anything that Bundy didn't do.  Except the Bundys had cattle on that land for 140 years.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Serioususername said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus Christ, I'm seeing a whole lot of contorting to try and make this seem like the Government or whomever is doing something wrong. He kept his stuff on Land that ISN'T HIS, if I park my car on your lawn you can have it towed because IT'S ON YOUR LAND. This is literally no different, except this idiot had 16 years time to comply.
> ...



They aren't confiscating the cattle to sell.  They are killing the cattle and burying the bodies.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Thank goodness. When it comes time to square off with crazy murdering cultists - I'm don't think we should rely on choir boys.
> ...



Oh please - say your hyperbole and name-calling. It adds NOTHING to any conversation or debate.
The davidians murdered agents who came to their compound to serve a legal warrant. You can try to re-write history all you want. You can even believe your fictions if you choose. But don't get all pissy, when others choose to stick with the facts.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Serioususername said:
> ...



Do you have a link for that?  The news stories have talked about contractors transporting the cattle.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



How can the government's claim to this property have no bearing here? It's foundational to this issue.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Serioususername said:
> ...



bullshit


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Bundy had no issue with the gov't owning the land prior to 1993.  He paid the grazing fees and did not argue.  He has also stated that the land is public land.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The land was open range.  The government declared it government land.  They didn't pay for it.  They didn't do anything that Bundy didn't do.  Except the Bundys had cattle on that land for 140 years.



Apparently they DID pay for it.

You need to read up on this a little more


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



The question isn't whether the U.S. did it better than they might have done, the simple fact is that they acquired this property through the use of force.

There's nothing illogical about the evolution of property law to me, but I find the government's claim to this land completely illogical. I'm hoping to find somebody willing to discuss the issue though, which will hopefully bring fresh insights to all of us.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



Because the government's ownership of the land has been legally established.

You want to undo that, rewrite property law, and make it retroactive for a few centuries so that it fits your perception of what property law SHOULD be? Fine - it still doesn't mean squat in this case until you get that done.

You are asking for a theoretical discussion on what property law SHOULD be. That's OK, but it doesn't mean a darn thing to THIS case.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Which, as I've pointed out previously, is irrelevant. That he takes it for granted doesn't mean that we should.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Serioususername said:
> ...




I heard on the news they were selling the cattle - but killing them and burying the bodies is just another form of theft.


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## Kevin_Kennedy (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



And it's the government which declares what is legal. Forgive me if I think we can go a bit deeper in our analysis.


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## Mustang (Apr 10, 2014)

paulitician said:


> I sure hope he survives this dispute with Big Brother. We all saw what happened to those women and children at Waco. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. God help him.
> 
> 
> A long-simmering dispute between a Nevada cattle rancher and the federal Bureau of Land Management has reached a boiling point, and participants have their fingers crossed it won&#8217;t erupt into violence.
> ...


 
Bundy and the right seem to be in a contest to see which one can outkook the other. Bundy acknowledges that the land is, and was, PUBLIC land. That means it was not, and IS not, his private property.

So, could someone PLEASE tell me why this idiot thinks he has any standing to "fire" the BLM? And what the hell are preemptive rights supposed to be?

It sounds like the guy needs a psych evaluation. Naturally, his lunacy makes him the perfect new hero of the right.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Mustang said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > I sure hope he survives this dispute with Big Brother. We all saw what happened to those women and children at Waco. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. God help him.
> ...



His ideas about preemptive rights is hilarious.  Since he has been there longer than the BLM, he doesn't think he has to follow their laws.   lol


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...




Let's see how you feel if the Feds move in and declare your backyard "protected wetlands" because of a rain puddle, and order you to tear down your house.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



So what would you suggest?  Let the cattle keep grazing and getting fatter so the rancher can make more money off them?

He was ordered to remove the cattle from the public lands 16 years ago.  How long do the feds have to wait?   Or do we just let him ignore the rulings as long as he wants?


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...




What I would suggest is that the Federal Government not be in the business of owning land, other than military bases and other buildings necessary for the proper functions of the government.

The rancher's family had grazed that land long before the Feds showed any interest in it.  Now it is being used to eco-terrorize the rancher and his family.  It's a form of fascism.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



 That's not even close to what happened.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



I would, obviously, not be happy about it.  But I would certainy not try to claim that, since I have lived in the house longer than the EPA has been around, I don't have to listen to them.

And that is a bit different than what is happening in Nevada.   The rancher does not own the land.  It is public land.  He stopped paying the grazing fees 21 years ago, and was ordered by a federal judge to remove his cattle from the public lands 16 years ago.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...




It's not at all different.  The land has been ranched by the family for decades.  The eco-terrorist regulations being used to drive the rancher out of business were made "after the fact".  It's a disgraceful abuse of government power.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Pure horseshit!!  The only ones terrorizing anyne is the rancher and his friends threatening the contractors who are removing the cattle.  They have tried to block the roads and followed the truck on numerous occasions.  

The land is public.  If you want no public lands, then start campaigning for that.  I think you will find it hard to sell the idea that we need to get rid of the national parks, wildlife refuges and the like.  But until the law changes, those who break it will eventually lose.

This guy got 21 years of free grazing on land he didn't own.  That is a pretty good deal.

Now they will sell his cattle.  I'm betting he could get the money that was left after the pay his fines, pay his grazing fees, and pay the contractors who moved the cattle.


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## ScreamingEagle (Apr 10, 2014)

in the bigger picture.....Obama and the environmental lefties have been land grabbing for years from the states.....this way they can control the oil and gas and other resources as well as push forward their 'green agenda'....

the Feds already own 80% of Nevada land....guess Harry Reid wants to get all of it under Fed control...

DEMINT: White House land grab - Washington Times


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

I think that, to be fair, the government should make a deal with this rancher. He can continue to graze his cattle on government land, and the government can expand their nuclear waste storage dump to include the ranchers land.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Serioususername said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus Christ, I'm seeing a whole lot of contorting to try and make this seem like the Government or whomever is doing something wrong. He kept his stuff on Land that ISN'T HIS, if I park my car on your lawn you can have it towed because IT'S ON YOUR LAND. This is literally no different, except this idiot had 16 years time to comply.
> ...



Actually, if you don't come and pay the fine THEY CAN SELL YOUR CAR.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



The family grazed their cattle on land they did not own.   That was common practice in the 1880s, but became less and less common.  In the 1920s Utah was at the forefront of fighting against "free grazers".

The rules changed and the gov't owns the land.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



This has nothing to do with "Eco-regulations".

This has to do with the fact that Bundy has refused to pay grazing fees for more than 20 years. It's really as simple as that.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

And that is why it is abuse of government power.

The government Changed The Rules via bureaucratic regulatory fiat.

That is not the Rule of Law, it is the Whim of the Bureaucrat, and a hallmark of totalitarianism.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Serioususername said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus Christ, I'm seeing a whole lot of contorting to try and make this seem like the Government or whomever is doing something wrong. He kept his stuff on Land that ISN'T HIS, if I park my car on your lawn you can have it towed because IT'S ON YOUR LAND. This is literally no different, except this idiot had 16 years time to comply.
> ...



Leave your car on gov't property for 21 years without paying and see if they don't sell your car to pay the fines and fees.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> And that is why it is abuse of government power.
> 
> The government Changed The Rules via bureaucratic regulatory fiat.
> 
> That is not the Rule of Law, it is the Whim of the Bureaucrat, and a hallmark of totalitarianism.



What "rule" was changed by regulatory fiat?


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> And that is why it is abuse of government power.
> 
> The government Changed The Rules via bureaucratic regulatory fiat.
> 
> That is not the Rule of Law, it is the Whim of the Bureaucrat, and a hallmark of totalitarianism.



The Taylor Land Use Act was popularly enacted, and it derived from politicians in Wyoming Utah and Colorado representing the wishes of their constituents.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...





B'loney.  The rancher's family had used that land without paying fees for decades.  The Feds are trying to harass him out of business.  It's also eco-terrorism.   The Fed's have declared the grazing area a protective habitat for a tortoise.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> And that is why it is abuse of government power.
> 
> The government Changed The Rules via bureaucratic regulatory fiat.
> 
> That is not the Rule of Law, it is the Whim of the Bureaucrat, and a hallmark of totalitarianism.



So Bundy should be able to ignore every law written since his family started ranching in Utah??    

That is utterly ridiculous.


I get that you want the gov't to only own land for military bases.  But the fact is that is owns more land than that.

This guy accepted paying fees, then got mad when the fees went up.  He then defied a judge and refused to pay the fees.  Now he loses.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

If this rancher were getting food stamps, the same posters supporting him about his desire to use government land for free would want to lynch him.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



1. The rancher's family had been allowed to graze for free on federal land until the Taylor land use act was passed, creating the BLM.

2. No one is "harassing him out of business". He's been actively and admittedly breaking the law for more than 20 years.

3. That area has NOT been declared a "protective habitat" for the tortoise. It's still BLM land, and all of the ranchers that followed the law are still grazing there.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...




The family started ranching the area in the 1870s.  The feds moved in and interfered with their property rights.  You can use whatever apparatchik excuse you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that it's an abuse of government power and an infringement on states' rights.

Why should the Federal government control so much land? There is no national security interest in this.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

Well, the reason the feds moved in was his forefathers wanted a mechanism to keep other free grazers from coming onto the land, shooting them, and grazing their own cattle.

There are some good books on the Johnson County War.

just sayin.


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## B. Kidd (Apr 10, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



He's the last cattle rancher in that area (Clark Co.) If yer' gonna lick boots, get it right.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> If this rancher were getting food stamps, the same posters supporting him about his desire to use government land for free would want to lynch him.



If he had murdered a young innocent girl I'd want to lynch him but would instead push for justice.  If he were receiving food stamps because the government took away his means for feeding his family I'd put the guy up on my shoulders and cheer him on.  If he were receiving food stamps because he's a lazy bum I'd look down my nose at him. 

But we're not talking about any what ifs.  We are talking about a tyrannical government raping it's citizens of one freedom at a time for its own sick sadistic pleasure. 

Government land my ass. It's our land, the feds need to go back to where they came from.


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## B. Kidd (Apr 10, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> If this rancher were getting food stamps, the same posters supporting him about his desire to use government land for free would want to lynch him.



WTF? 
He's providing the beef that people on foodstamps buy.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Serioususername said:
> ...




IF you don't come and pay.  That's a lot different than selling the car or destroying it without giving you a chance to do so.

In the case of the rancher, he has a valid dispute that he should even have to pay - and the government is engaging in defacto terrorism against him and his family.


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## boedicca (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Serioususername said:
> ...




Leave your car on your own property and then see the feds to nationalize your property is a more apt analogy.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



except that the rancher doesn't own the land ....


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

His ancestors never got title.  He has no ownership right,  His family never had one.

However, it does appear that what this may really be about is the BLM has determined the land the old coot and his former neighbors ranch won't support enough cattle to let him stay in biz.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Except the legal battles over this guy's non-payment have been going on for more than a decade



Not really.

There was a hearing 18 years ago - then nothing, until 2013 - right as the crises with cattle came to a boil.

If you really want to hurt the middle class, drive food and energy costs up sharply....


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



His dispute has been extensively adjudicated and he has had since 1993 to get his "car" out of "impound."

These BS analogies are dropping like flies. Do you folks really know what is happening or are you just jumping on the bandwagon with your "Action Alert" talking points?

Nevermind, you don't need to answer that. Your woefully uniformed posts are all the answer I need.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Except the legal battles over this guy's non-payment have been going on for more than a decade
> ...



Ahhhhh so he only had 18 years. Wow, what a rush to judgement. So now that your "property rights" argument has been shredded you're now onto the food price gambit?

Pretty weak man.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Except the legal battles over this guy's non-payment have been going on for more than a decade
> ...



It's clearly Michelle's obsession with our eating animal fats and her desire to make us all dependent upon soy.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > winterborn said:
> ...



huh?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



I'm sorry - I'll speak up.

THIS RANCHER DOESN'T OWN THE LAND


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 10, 2014)

B. Kidd said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Link?


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



He had a blm lease, but didn't pay up, so a fed judge ordered him off the land over a decade ago, but he won't go.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Who gave the feds the right to lease his land back to him? The feds?


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Ok who does.  Can you provide the link to individual bill of sale specifying who owns the land?

Forgive me but I always thought we, the collective we, owned this country, not specific government individuals.  Government workers, are our employees, not our slave masters as the democrats would have us believe.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



No it's not.

But there are cases that are just about that egregious. 

This just ain't one of 'em.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



Bundy says he "fired the BLM," and vows not to pay the agency he accuses of plotting his demise.

A father of 14, Bundy insists that generations of his family have ranched and worked this unforgiving landscape along the Virgin River since the 1880s. He says government over-regulation has driven scores of fellow ranchers out of business in sprawling Clark County, leaving him the last man standing.


'Range war' with BLM: Hundreds rally for Nevada cattle rancher - latimes.com


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



LOL - seriously?
It's federal land. No one disputes that at all. Read ANY article from the source of your choice.

here's the first from a google search
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/04/10/rancher-nevada-public-lands/7540911/


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## B. Kidd (Apr 10, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



Peruse 'Current Events' forum where I originally posted this topic last week. It's in one of my linked articles in there. (Sheesh, you want me to read it to you too?)


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Neither he, nor his forefathers, ever owned the land.  For F's sake man, you're from the west.  Have you no knowledge of free grazing, range wars and the Taylor Land Act?


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## Mustang (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


 
A person doesn't have property rights on land they don't own. Bundy was damn fortunate to be able to graze his cattle on land that wasn't his for years without paying grazing fees. Obviously, he seems to think that by doing that for years, that gave him a right to do so. He's wrong. That didn't automatically give him the right to have his cattle graze on that land anymore than you have a right to continue parking your car in a vacant lot next door to your house if and when the legal owner decides to sell it or build on it after letting it sit vacant for years.

Undoubtedly, the gov't could take an even harder line if it wanted and try to recoup some of those grazing fees. Bundy should be grateful that he's getting off so easy, but instead he's decided to try to continue to get something for nothing as if he's entitled to it. He sounds like one of those takers the right is always complaining about.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...



Yeah that's my point.  

You don't need to own public lands to use public lands.  For the feds to be trying to take away this guys liberty to free graze on public lands is just plain wrong, legal as it may be, it's still just plain wrong.  Worse, we are paying them tens of millions of dollars to try to stop this guy from free grazing public land with cattle.  For what?  To protect some lizard?  To stop the cows from taking a shit?


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## BlindBoo (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



I'll say, 21 years to enforce the law!  Disgraceful abuse or lack of enforcement? At 2 dollars a head, that's Terrorist prices huh?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...




What wasn't mentioned is that Mr. Bundys family owned all that land until the govt seized it over the desert tortoise.  It was legal to graze until 98'.  Still his family were the land owners as I understand it and now it belongs to Cook County he said.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Figures.  The turtles are probably happy to share the land with the cows.  Was the rancher seeking out turtle eggs and trampling them for sport or something?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



The BLM raised the grazing fee and the rancher stopped paying completely.  Then he kept grazing his cattle for 21 years.  No, he does not have a dispute.  He has a large debt.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...


Or we need to put the BLM out of commission.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Do you have a link to the rancher owning the land up until 1998?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Again, horseshit.   They didn't take away his land.  They simply assumed ownership of unowned land.  The fact that Bundy's family allowed their cattle to graze on the land does not equate to ownership.

The feds took unowned property under federal control.  Then allowed Bundy to use it for his commercial cattle operation, for a fee.   Bundy disagreed with the fee increase, so he stopped paying anything.


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## ScreamingEagle (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...



21 years....?  this looks like adverse possession....


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



His mistake, if there was one, was paying in the first place.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



No, they do not.   If Bundy owned the land then why would he have paid the grazing fees up until '93?

I have seen nothing to suggest that Bundy's family ever owned the land in question.  They just used it when they wanted.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



He agrees that it is public land.  Charging fees for use of public land is perfectly legal and very common.

And if it were being used for grazing for subsistence, I might lean towards allowing some exception.  But this man is making money from the cattle he does not have to pay for land to feed.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



neither have I, which is why I asked this same question a couple hours back.

I really think what's happened is that over the years the BLM has decreased the # of cattle that can be free grazed, or more likely, the ranchers were always overgrazing, and the BLM stepped in, so the ranchers other than this guy found other stuff to do.

So, imo, the real question for the folks who question the BLM is whether they costed the permits low enough to let a guy make a few bucks running 150, rather, than the 900, this guy wants to run?


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## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Here's hoping some federal agent decides to take away your property and your livelihood. Where I come from the stuff the feds are doing is a hanging offense.  I suppose where you come from shitting on peoples livelihood is an every day thang.


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## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...



you homestead on a park in my state, you best be armed.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > bendog said:
> ...



Where I come from you don't expect to run a commercial cattle operation on land you don't own for free.

Where I come from, if you agree that a fee is to be paid for using land, and the landlord raises the fee, you do not continue to graze your cattle and stop paying completely.

Where I come from, if a federal judge orders you to stop using land you do not own, and orders you to remove your property from land you do not own, failure to do so will result in forfeiture of your property.

Where I come from, threatening the contractors who are moving the cattle is against the law.


Oh, and no one took away his property.  He never owned the property.


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## Tresha91203 (Apr 10, 2014)

If squatters move into vacant property I legally own and occupy it for X amount of time, the govt gives them right to my personal property even though I can show legal proof of ownership. Likewise, if a neighbor erects a fence on my property and it remains X amount of time, the govt gives that neighbor my land. This is often how property rights are determined.



WinterBorn said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


----------



## bendog (Apr 10, 2014)

Tresha91203 said:


> If squatters move into vacant property I legally own and occupy it for X amount of time, the govt gives them right to my personal property even though I can show legal proof of ownership. Likewise, if a neighbor erects a fence on my property and it remains X amount of time, the govt gives that neighbor my land. This is often how property rights are determined.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only if the owner takes no steps to protect the right, and in this case the Rancher has been ordered to get off.  The feds thus far have not enforced that order because, in all likelihood, they'll have to kill him.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 10, 2014)

The federal government is systematically seizing ranches to end the cattle industry.  This is the last rancher in this area.  Then BLM can move on to cleansing other ranch land.  It's a religious thing.  They worship Gaia.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The federal government is systematically seizing ranches to end the cattle industry.  This is the last rancher in this area.  Then BLM can move on to cleansing other ranch land.  It's a religious thing.  They worship Gaia.



I suppose you have as much evidence behind this claim as you did when you claimed the 200 armed feds were surrounding the ranch to kill the Bundys, and when you claimed that they were killing and burying all his cattle???

This argument started in 1993.  Other ranchers have been going out of business for years and years.

They are raising large animals in a desert.  There are other areas that can do that cheaper and more efficiently.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The federal government is systematically seizing ranches to end the cattle industry.  This is the last rancher in this area.  Then BLM can move on to cleansing other ranch land.  It's a religious thing.  They worship Gaia.



OMG! No more cattle grazing in Clark County, NV?

No wonder I never saw a single cow on the strip during the 10 years that I lived in Vegas!


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Serioususername said:
> ...



And THIS is what makes the whole thing stink - RIGHT at the time when there is a crises with beef and milk production, at THAT moment, the feds decide to remove another massive part of the resources.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Oh please - say your hyperbole and name-calling. It adds NOTHING to any conversation or debate.



So you got nothing then?



> The davidians murdered agents who came to their compound to serve a legal warrant. You can try to re-write history all you want. You can even believe your fictions if you choose. But don't get all pissy, when others choose to stick with the facts.



Nope, the federal courts ruled it was NOT murder. And the warrant was NOT legal, since it was based on perjured testimony. 

You don't have the slightest clue what your talking about, but that doesn't stop you from spouting off.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Yes, that would be bad.  Not that it has much to do with the milk production, but bad for beef production.

However, I have asked a couple of times for any link or evidence that they are killing the cattle and burying the bodies.  None has been offered.  Every story I have seen talks about contractors moving the cattle.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Do you have a link for that?  The news stories have talked about contractors transporting the cattle.



That's what I read as well, shooting the cattle and using an bull dozer to bury them.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Destruction of the country is Job Number 1 for all good little Democrats.  Have to kill off the people to save the turtles.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Ahhhhh so he only had 18 years. Wow, what a rush to judgement. So now that your "property rights" argument has been shredded you're now onto the food price gambit?
> 
> Pretty weak man.



You don't pay attention. I'm not siding with Bundy. If there is a fee for grazing, pay it. I have to pay to use supposedly public parks in the National Forest, Bundy can damn well pony up for his use.

I do question the timing of this though. Obama and the democrats are at war to end the middle class (the Bourgeoisie) and this sort of action fits with that goal.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> It's clearly Michelle's obsession with our eating animal fats and her desire to make us all dependent upon soy.



So, you live in Colorado then?

Standard Disclaimer: bendog is your brain on dope, any questions?


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> bendog said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Public land doesnt mean: do what i want with.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



sure if you are retarded...he never owned the land. Try understanding facts.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

bendog said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Why, are you planning to go throw a tampon at him?


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Except the legal battles over this guy's non-payment have been going on for more than a decade
> ...



that would mean its being going on for more than a decade. 

Uh ok, the middle class thing is out of left field.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have a link for that?  The news stories have talked about contractors transporting the cattle.
> ...



Do you have a link for that?


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Serioususername said:
> ...



no they arent. This is reaching critical stupid now


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Feds ?killing cattle? in war with rancher

its WND so its fake


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 10, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> This child abuse thing has been proven false by the local agencies that had been looking into it long before the Feds showed up. Your gobbling up propaganda in a big way, Its typical of people like yourself,all must be conformists like your self,or their crazies,or Nazis or another label you can stick to them,its rather pathetic,and shows little character.
> 
> You are right the FEDS fucked that up from the very moment they stepped foot on that compound,and many died that wouldn't have otherwise,they and they alone have blood on their hands,Janet Reno and Bill are just as guilty.



Sorry, I wouldn't take the word of a state agency, especially since Koresh fathered 3 children on his sister-in-law starting when she was 13.  

And, no, I guess I can't get worked up about a bunch of cultists who were cheating the welfare system while their leader bought expensive guitars and lots of guns.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Yes, that would be bad.  Not that it has much to do with the milk production, but bad for beef production.
> 
> However, I have asked a couple of times for any link or evidence that they are killing the cattle and burying the bodies.  None has been offered.  Every story I have seen talks about contractors moving the cattle.



Oh, I have plenty of links. 

Bundy cattle slaughtered and buried in the desert by federal agents - National Liberty Federation

Bundy cattle slaughtered and buried in the desert by federal agents | CLINGERS... BLOGGING BAD ~ DICK.G: AMERICAN !

Tension grows on Nev. wild horse issue

I was going to question the credibility of the links, but actually the third one is pretty credible.

Looks like the feds ARE killing and burying the cattle.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that would be bad.  Not that it has much to do with the milk production, but bad for beef production.
> ...


now its about horses.....


----------



## B. Kidd (Apr 10, 2014)

Lets see.
Cattle bad for desert tortoises.
Wild horses good for desert tortoises.
Solar farms good for desert tortoises.
BLM policies.........priceless!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> that would mean its being going on for more than a decade.
> 
> Uh ok, the middle class thing is out of left field.



Yep, and I'm not very sympathetic to Bundy.

On one level, I agree that the seizure of land from Nevada by the Federal Government is a criminal act. Literally criminal. But would Bundy comply if the state were charging the fees, instead of the BLM? Somehow I doubt it.

I get charged to use supposedly public land all the time. I find that to be a violation of everything we supposedly stand for. If the government takes taxes to support public lands, then I already paid for it.

However, this is an across the board thing. If Bundy want to start a class action lawsuit that the charging to use public land violates the Constitution, I'll join right in. But until that is decided, I'm still going to have to pay to put my boat in public water, still pay to have a picnic in a national park - so he can pay too. Yeah, it's shitty and downright criminal, but it has to be applied to all, Bundy isn't special.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Just more proof that the federal government CANT manage ANYTHING without it becoming a clusterfuck


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have a link for that?  The news stories have talked about contractors transporting the cattle.
> ...



So we hear....pics?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Apparently it always was, had you bothered to read the article.

It looks like a complaint was filed that wild mustangs were killing the desert tortoise, so the BLM agreed to "relocate" the horses. Then the question of why, if horses are banned, can cattle be there was raised. Of course horses and cows are very different, but BLM doofuses can't figure that out. 

Anyway, looks like that was what got this all going.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



...not not paying your bills for decades, eh?

Let's see....can't generate RW sympathy for a free-loading Rancher who doesn't pay what he owns for land use.....but throw in wacky environmentalists and BINGO! you've got a live Cause!


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



i did, hence the post. I just thought it was about Turtles, and not paying fees.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > that would mean its being going on for more than a decade.
> ...



Government takes land to protect it all the time. really is the smallest issue out of this.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Links were given per request so stop acting like an idiot.

THIS IS WHY  I don't bother worrying about such requests from most of you. You ask, he provides & you change the request.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> ...not not paying your bills for decades, eh?
> 
> Let's see....can't generate RW sympathy for a free-loading Rancher who doesn't pay what he owns for land use.....but throw in wacky environmentalists and BINGO! you've got a live Cause!



What part of "I have no sympathy for Bundy" do you not grasp?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

BTW provide me links of the cows being on federal land.

Pics or it didn't happen.....

See how retarded that request is


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Lol what a bunch of twisted talking point horseshit.
This guy, nor his family EVER owned this land. We the people - ALL the people own this land. If a single individual wants to use land that belongs to ALL of us, we have a right to expect something - oh ... let's say GRAZING FEES - in return.

The idea that public lands means anyone should be able to operate their private business there for free is laughable.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> BTW provide me links of the cows being on federal land.
> 
> Pics or it didn't happen.....
> 
> See how retarded that request is



WND isnt a link...its garbage


----------



## jillian (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



gunny g world press?

world nut daily?

let us know when there's an actual source.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Some folks are so desperate to get whipped up into an anti-government frenzy that they scooped 5his up. When they realized the facts donMt support it, they just starting making shit up about starving children, murdered cows, rancher owns the land, government took the land from the rancher, and other lies.

Look dudes, you're just giving the left more than enough ammo to write you off as lying trolls.

There are many instances of government abuse of power to bitch about.

THIS just ain't one of 'em.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 10, 2014)

jillian said:


> gunny g world press?
> 
> world nut daily?
> 
> let us know when there's an actual source.



You're incredibly fucking stupid, even as mindless hacks go...


----------



## Tresha91203 (Apr 10, 2014)

That was what I was trying to say. His family's cattle have been grazing this land for generations. If that were originally my personal land, the gov would have given it to the rancher.

I don't know enough about this particular case to really have much of an opinion other than the sidenote that if it were citizen vs citizen, the govt quite possibly would side with the rancher over the legal property owner.


[/B][/B]





bendog said:


> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> > If squatters move into vacant property I legally own and occupy it for X amount of time, the govt gives them right to my personal property even though I can show legal proof of ownership. Likewise, if a neighbor erects a fence on my property and it remains X amount of time, the govt gives that neighbor my land. This is often how property rights are determined.
> ...


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Lol what a bunch of twisted talking point horseshit.
> This guy, nor his family EVER owned this land. We the people - ALL the people own this land. If a single individual wants to use land that belongs to ALL of us, we have a right to expect something - oh ... let's say GRAZING FEES - in return.
> 
> The idea that public lands means anyone should be able to operate their private business there for free is laughable.



Lol @ you expecting anything for something that has no effect on you.

Typical liberal

Amazing factoid

All the grass his cows ate magically reappeared without human or LIBERAL intervention


I bet you wish you could charge a toll fee for the use of the sidewalk in front of your house huh


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Well the Governor of Nevada is really pissed off about this situation.

I don't care what this is about. Unpaid fees or a tortoise makes no difference to me. This is way over the top. 

I'm with the Governor.


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

*Nevada was among Western states where ranchers challenged federal ownership of land they said was theirs

The governor said he was most offended that armed federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a fenced-in 'First Amendment area' south of the resort city of Mesquite.
Dispute: The desert tortoise lives primarily in the southwest of the United States and has seen its population decrease by up to 90 percent in recent years

Dispute: The desert tortoise lives primarily in the southwest of the United States and has seen its population decrease by up to 90 percent in recent years

The site 'tramples upon Nevadans' fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution' and should be dismantled, Sandoval said.

*

South Nevada rancher takes on armed federal agents in standoff | Mail Online


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

[ame=http://youtu.be/lpnFG4mfWo4]If Feds Take Your Cattle & Property, YOU Become Cattle - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

infowars? 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

no let me serious about that link...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHA


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Well the Governor of Nevada is really pissed off about this situation.
> 
> I don't care what this is about. Unpaid fees or a tortoise makes no difference to me. This is way over the top.
> 
> I'm with the Governor.



cool, so you are against paying your debts....You should go to jail like this other loser.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> infowars?
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
> 
> ...



Hahahahahahahahahaha

No let me be serious about your response

Derpaderpaderpaderpaderpa


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Well the Governor of Nevada is really pissed off about this situation.
> ...



I never said I was against paying ones debts. Not once. 

200 armed agents, helicopters, contractors, sealed off "first amendment areas", give me a break.

It's over the top. Plain and simple. This is a dog and pony show. I hope it ends peacefully.


----------



## depotoo (Apr 10, 2014)

Since his family has been grazing that land for over 100 years, logic says the decline of the tortoise has nothing to do with the cattle.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > infowars?
> ...



you posted infowars not me shmuck


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



he was asked numerous times for 20 years..fuck him


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

Watched the video of them swarming over that dumptruck and one guy driving an ATV in front of the truck to stop it....those people are nuts.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

depotoo said:


> Since his family has been grazing that land for over 100 years, logic says the decline of the tortoise has nothing to do with the cattle.



Fighting crazy environmentalists sells better than non-rent paying free-loader.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

What's this turtle stuff have to do with anything? Answer: absolutely nothing. Just more diversion and hype in a desperate (and laughable) effort to try to create an anti-government issue out of some deadbeat welfare cowboy's pissing and moaning about not being able to soak the taxpayers for freebies anymore.

What a joke.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Udderly ridiculous


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> What's this turtle stuff have to do with anything? Answer: absolutely nothing. Just more diversion and hype in a desperate (and laughable) effort to try to create an anti-government issue out of some deadbeat welfare cowboy's pissing and moaning about not being able to soak the taxpayers for freebies anymore.
> 
> What a joke.



As I said...fighting crazy left-wing environmentalitst wackos sells better than being a non-rent paying free-loader.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 10, 2014)

depotoo said:


> Since his family has been grazing that land for over 100 years, logic says the decline of the tortoise has nothing to do with the cattle.



I thought it was just cattle that were grazing. But his family was grazing that land too? All I can say is that they sure must love that range grass.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

Does this mean that the government is going to stop me from digging up Saguaros at Saguaro National Park in order to sell them?


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > What's this turtle stuff have to do with anything? Answer: absolutely nothing. Just more diversion and hype in a desperate (and laughable) effort to try to create an anti-government issue out of some deadbeat welfare cowboy's pissing and moaning about not being able to soak the taxpayers for freebies anymore.
> ...



Ok, but just m aking up new lies when your old ones get unmasked just makes them look stupid. There are legitimate instances of government abuse happening, but these idiots make it just too easy for the abusers to blow off legitimate complaints with a "just look at these idiots, they'll bitch and moan about Anything"

I am reminded of the boy who cried wolf.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Mustang said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Since his family has been grazing that land for over 100 years, logic says the decline of the tortoise has nothing to do with the cattle.
> ...



Oh crap - that means the cows actually own the land ....
Round up the ndeadbeat cowboy and his 14 raised-on-welfare kids and kick THEM off the cow's land.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Udderly ridiculous



Ouch!


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 10, 2014)

You guys are up in arms over a onePercenter attempting to get away with screwing the American tax payer out of fees for using public land.

Did a short assessor check on Bundy. What did I find? The guys has a multitude of family trusts hidden under family members names.  

A link for the chumps.  You'll need Adobe Reader to view.

Property Records


----------



## tyroneweaver (Apr 10, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> You guys are up in arms over a onePercenter attempting to get away with screwing the American tax payer out of fees for using public land.
> 
> Did a short assessor check on Bundy. What did I find? The guys has a multitude of family trusts hidden under family members names.
> 
> ...




I guess they weren't so secret....as  you claim


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Udderly ridiculous
> ...



Ba dum bup


----------



## tyroneweaver (Apr 10, 2014)

200  armed agents sent to subdue a 67 year old Mormon
Imagine how many they would have to send to subdue tyroneweaver  LOL

btw wheres Lon Horiuchi in all this. Dont the feds use him when they wanna kill someone


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> What's this turtle stuff have to do with anything? Answer: absolutely nothing. Just more diversion and hype in a desperate (and laughable) effort to try to create an anti-government issue out of some deadbeat welfare cowboy's pissing and moaning about not being able to soak the taxpayers for freebies anymore.
> 
> What a joke.



What's the tortoise got to do with anything? Well for starters back in the 90's it was the tortoise that put in the regulations that the rancher got pissed off at.

Fast forward to today.

They're the ones bringing it up. Not freaking anti government posters. Get a grip. I know you have a hard on for some posters here, but it's not them that got the tortoise angle started.

* Its high time for the BLM to do its job and give the [endangered desert] tortoises and the Gold Butte area the protection they need and are legally entitled to, senior Center for Biological Diversity scientist Rob Mrowka told the Mesquite Local News. As the tortoises emerge from their winter sleep, they are finding their much-needed food consumed by cattle.*

Defiant Nevada rancher faces armed federal agents in escalating confiscation standoff - BizPac Review


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

tyroneweaver said:


> 200  armed agents sent to subdue a 67 year old Mormon
> Imagine how many they would have to send to subdue tyroneweaver  LOL
> 
> btw wheres Lon Horiuchi in all this. Dont the feds use him when they wanna kill someone



Dude should have never snatched up his rifle and invited his neighbors to his "range war."


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > What's this turtle stuff have to do with anything? Answer: absolutely nothing. Just more diversion and hype in a desperate (and laughable) effort to try to create an anti-government issue out of some deadbeat welfare cowboy's pissing and moaning about not being able to soak the taxpayers for freebies anymore.
> ...


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 10, 2014)

tyroneweaver said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are up in arms over a onePercenter attempting to get away with screwing the American tax payer out of fees for using public land.
> ...


----------



## tyroneweaver (Apr 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...




ya, Angus's tend to be good mothers.


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

AND screaming headlines proclaim that this has to do with a threatened species. Shit this is unreal.
*

Standoff in the desert: Last rancher in south Nevada takes on 200 armed federal agents and snipers trying to confiscate cattle from his ancestral land in constitutional dispute over a rare TORTOISE*

South Nevada rancher takes on armed federal agents in standoff | Mail Online


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> tyroneweaver said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 10, 2014)

tyroneweaver said:


> 200  armed agents sent to subdue a 67 year old Mormon
> Imagine how many they would have to send to subdue tyroneweaver  LOL
> 
> btw wheres Lon Horiuchi in all this. Dont the feds use him when they wanna kill someone



The guys a 'wackjob'. He actually believes in taking what is not his to take.* He needs to pay his bills.*


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

No no, don't look at the deadbeat who hasn't paid what he owes for decades .... um .... look at the .... um .... turtles. Yeah, that's it. It's all about turtles.

Funny stuff guys


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > tyroneweaver said:
> ...


----------



## bodecea (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

You pay to play you see. If they give you permission to hurt the environment you just give the money to the government and you're allowed.


* The Bureau of Land Management has paid for the holding and research facility with fees imposed on developers who disturb tortoise habitat on public land. 

As the housing boom swept through southern Nevada in the 2000s, the tortoise budget swelled. But when the recession hit, the housing market contracted, and the bureau and its local government partners began struggling to meet the center's $1 million annual budget.*

Desert tortoise faces threat from its own refuge


----------



## tyroneweaver (Apr 10, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> tyroneweaver said:
> 
> 
> > 200  armed agents sent to subdue a 67 year old Mormon
> ...



Brother Bundy is no more wacky than the pos in the white nor his ag.

I'll take Bundy any day over how corrupt this government has become under obama
paid his grazing fees or not


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


----------



## Nutz (Apr 10, 2014)

Man breaks law...man is responsible for his actions. 
Illegal immigrants are illegal...shouldn't they be sent back?

The law is the law.  You can't cry when you have to face the music when you break the law.


----------



## DriftingSand (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > We&#8217;ve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds won&#8217;t hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



Clinton and Janet Reno were guilty of murder in the first degree.  Especially for killing Randy Weaver's wife and son and for killing innocent children at Waco.  They showed the world that a sitting President can kill innocent folks and get away with it.  We'll see if "compassionate" Obama follows the example.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 10, 2014)

tyroneweaver said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > tyroneweaver said:
> ...



Brother Bundy? Oh I see, you're a 'wackjob' too? 

So because it's 'Brother Bundy' it's OK for him not to pay his bills?


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 10, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

First it's a rancher getting thrown off his land. Oops he doesn't own the land.

Oh but they're killing his cows. Oops, there not killing his cows.

Oh but it's really about turtles. Oops, it's got nothing to do with turtles.

Oh, did I say turtles, I ment it's about solar energy.


Crap man, get your bullshit talking points straight BEFORE you try to post them.

From the start, this has ALWAYS been about a deadbeat who thinks he is entitled to feed off the public trough. Period. The spin and deflection and outright lies cannot change that.

You keep saying "there is more to this" but everytime you try to say what that is, it turns out to be more bullshit.try to say wha


----------



## DriftingSand (Apr 10, 2014)

bodecea said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 10, 2014)

Nutz said:


> Man breaks law...man is responsible for his actions.
> Illegal immigrants are illegal...shouldn't they be sent back?
> 
> The law is the law.  You can't cry when you have to face the music when you break the law.



In 2012 the Obama administration deported 410,000 illegal aliens. 

Bundy should pay his bills.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 10, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> First it's a rancher getting thrown off his land. Oops he doesn't own the land.
> 
> Oh but they're killing his cows. Oops, there not killing his cows.
> 
> ...



You're such an asshole.  I keep giving you all the links that relate to the tortoises and you prefer to be blind, deaf and dumb.

Cripes here's another. But keep whacking off thinking this guy is getting his just desserts because of unpaid grazing fees.

Knock yourself out. But this time I'll give it to you in crayon.  It's pay to play. And I've put up solid links. 

* According to the draft, it would cost a solar developer $42.7 million to support off-site restoration at Gold Butte that would offset the destruction of Dry Lake's 3,000 developable acres.

However, since solar developers must also pay to mitigate tortoise habitat -- listed under the Endangered Species Act -- and because Dry Lake is already significantly disturbed with transmission towers, gas plants and roads, the Dry Lake plan would chop overall mitigation fees to a one-time payment of $10.5 million

RENEWABLE ENERGY: Mojave project tests Interior strategy for stemming habitat losses -- Tuesday, January 28, 2014 -- www.eenews.net

That's likely a small percentage of the total cost to develop Dry Lake, which could support a solar project of up to 694 megawatts. By comparison, the 377 MW Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System under construction south of Las Vegas will cost well over $2 billion.*


----------



## Flopper (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...


And for 20 years he has not paid the required grazing fees and he's surprised.  One has to wonder how many letters from the BLM has he ignored, how many court orders has he trashed?  At some point the government does have to say enough is enough and enforce the law.


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Now where are the cattle?

Freaking Gold Butte.

* &#8220;It&#8217;s high time for the BLM to do its job and give the [endangered desert] tortoises and the Gold Butte area the protection they need and are legally entitled to,&#8221; senior Center for Biological Diversity scientist Rob Mrowka told the Mesquite Local News. &#8220;As the tortoises emerge from their winter sleep, they are finding their much-needed food consumed by cattle.&#8221;*

Defiant Nevada rancher faces armed federal agents in escalating confiscation standoff - BizPac Review


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## Londoner (Apr 10, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> For over twenty years now, a battle has raged between cattle rancher Cliven Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management.  Bundy has been using federal land to allow his cattle to graze, and the BLM has argued that this is trespassing because the land is protected and because Bundy has not paid required grazing fees.



The guy is freeloader. He's using land he doesn't own.

But I like the fact that you are worried about Federal power inside the states. 

The Reagan War on Drugs and the Bush War on Terrorism has given the Federal Government unprecedented control over state law enforcement. Nothing in my lifetime has made government bigger or more invasive. 

Turn off the Republican noise machine so you so that you are not so dependent on news sources that are in the tank for one political party.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Starving children, throwing a rancher off his land, killing cows, they've got guns, turtles, solar energy ...

Holy crap - it's just one line of bullshit after another.
All to desperately try to defend some welfare cowboy's sense of entitlement to live off the taxpayer's teet with his 14 welfare sucking children. 

I have now officially heard it all.


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## tinydancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Londoner said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > For over twenty years now, a battle has raged between cattle rancher Cliven Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management.  Bundy has been using federal land to allow his cattle to graze, and the BLM has argued that this is &#8220;trespassing&#8221; because the land is protected and because Bundy has not paid required grazing fees.
> ...


 

Surely you jest. I guess you missed the 90's.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 10, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Lol what a bunch of twisted talking point horseshit.
> This guy, nor his family EVER owned this land. We the people - ALL the people own this land. If a single individual wants to use land that belongs to ALL of us, we have a right to expect something - oh ... let's say GRAZING FEES - in return.
> 
> The idea that public lands means anyone should be able to operate their private business there for free is laughable.



Sorry, I don't believe you should have to pay to use public lands.  We already pay for their maintenance with our taxes.  I think everyone, rich and poor alike should be able to enjoy our public lands whenever they want.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Lol what a bunch of twisted talking point horseshit.
> ...



COOL. So I get to open a Taco Bell in a national Park? Good to know.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...



Unlike many douchebags I don't judge sources. I read or watch the content then form an opinion.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 10, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



And therein lies the problem. Does this source have a vested interest in giving me a distorted view? Does it has a history of being wrong? If you don't grade your information source, you wind up just believing whatever confirms your preconceived notions and you never learn how to listen and consider views and opinions that may differ from yours. In short - you stop growing and learning and you stagnate.

But to each his or her own I suppose.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

2 or 3 pages ago nodouchebaginthefight ended a post with the words nuff said.

Yet he owns half the posts since then. People have come and gone from the thread but this obsessed troll can't let go and follow his own words.

Get a life or a dildo, you need it


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 10, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Lol what a bunch of twisted talking point horseshit.
> ...



Should this rancher use this land for free, or should I have access to it to start a helicopter concession for tourists over Las Vegas?


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Apr 10, 2014)

Do you idiots know how to use the quote function? Wtf


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## JoeB131 (Apr 11, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> ...



As stated Earlier, Randy Weaver's family was removed from the Gene Pool  under Bush-41's watch.  

and the whacked out cultists at Waco killed themselves.


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## chikenwing (Apr 11, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> DriftingSand said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...



Your a piece of shit and deserve non of the freedoms offered by this country.


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## TemplarKormac (Apr 11, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > DriftingSand said:
> ...



That's out of line. 

Just who do you think you are telling someone they don't deserve the rights and protections of this great nation? Just because I much dislike Joe and his political positions doesn't mean I don't support his rights in America. Uncalled for.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 11, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > DriftingSand said:
> ...



Guy, please point out which of those statements were factually inaccurate.  

Ruby RIdge happened on Bush's watch. I'm not sure why you guys keep trying to hang these dead Nazis on Clinton, because Bush's folks were in charge when they were dealt with. 

And, sorry, the Davidians killed themselves. This is the conclusion of State and Federal investigators.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...



Which one of those "wacky environmentalists" have been using public lands and refusing to pay the required fees??

Which one of those "wacky environmentalists" have been defying a federal court order for 16 years?


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...



The First Amendment Area is an outrage.   The rest is to be expected.

I love that they keep saying "armed agents".   They emphasize the "armed".   Have you ever dealt with an unarmed federal agent?   Plus, there have been numerous threats of a range war, and the contractors moving the cattle have been threatened.

Helicopters?  Really?  That is over the top?  They are rounding up cattle on 600,000 acres.  Of course they have helicopters.

They hired contractors because federal agents have no training in moving hundreds of head of cattle.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

tyroneweaver said:


> 200  armed agents sent to subdue a 67 year old Mormon
> Imagine how many they would have to send to subdue tyroneweaver  LOL
> 
> btw wheres Lon Horiuchi in all this. Dont the feds use him when they wanna kill someone



Really?   After 30 pages you STILL want this to be about the agents going after Bundy??

Here, I'll type slowly so maybe you can keep up.

The agents are not there to subdue the rancher.  They are NOT surrounding his ranch.  They are surrounding the public lands where this guys cattle are, and have been, despite being ordered by a federal judge to remove them 16 years ago!

The 200 agents (all federal agents are armed) are surrounding public land.  There are 900 head of cattle on 600,000 acres.  And the rancher and his friends have threatened a range war.


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## DriftingSand (Apr 11, 2014)

1st Plank of Marx's -- Communist Manifesto:


> 1. "Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes."
> 
> *Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)*



Communist Manifesto 10 Planks

Yup ... that pretty much describes the situation!!


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Yeah, now THERE'S a report to hang your hat on - they call this public land the rancher's "ancestral" land in their headline.
LOL -  What a crock.

So I guess the family that has lived in public housing long enough can claim the building as their "ancestral" property ?????????

What a croc


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I already negged you because you negged me. But I owe you a positive asap for THIS one.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> infowars?
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
> 
> ...



It's kind of the right wing version of Media Matters, eh sparky?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

tyroneweaver said:


> 200  armed agents sent to subdue a 67 year old Mormon
> Imagine how many they would have to send to subdue tyroneweaver  LOL
> 
> btw wheres Lon Horiuchi in all this. Dont the feds use him when they wanna kill someone



Bundy's wife is too old to have a baby. FBI assassin Horiuchi only likes to murder women when they are holding infants.

But fear not, the FBI has plenty of other assassins to murder U.S. citizens with.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> As stated Earlier, Randy Weaver's family was removed from the Gene Pool  under Bush-41's watch.
> 
> and the whacked out cultists at Waco killed themselves.



Comrade Stalin, do you dream of the day when whites, Christians, Republicans, and other enemies of the party can be dragged out in the middle of the night to be killed in vast fields?

We know you do!

You may be powerless and impotent, but you sure are one evil little troll.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 11, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Do you idiots know how to use the quote function? Wtf



It's the web site software not the users.  Sometimes, for reasons I have not tried to figured out yet, when you quote someone one of the right brackets gets left off.  You can fix it by adding the missing ']' bracket.  After it happens you have to fix it by adding the missing '[/QUOTE]'.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> That's out of line.
> 
> Just who do you think you are telling someone they don't deserve the rights and protections of this great nation? Just because I much dislike Joe and his political positions doesn't mean I don't support his rights in America. Uncalled for.



In all fairness, Comrade JoeB Stalin is advocating the murder of unarmed women holding infants. I mean, he IS a piece of shit on the Charlie Manson level, a blight on the human condition.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

In another thread on this topic (there are three or four now) I linked the right-wing militia "Action Alert" that provided the source for so much of the misinformation about this issue. A lot of far-right bloggers have perpetuated the falsehoods and the wild hyperbole. It's pretty interesting because when you see posters here using the same words, the same omissions, and the same buzz words, it becomes crystal clear where they are getting their information.

And I have no issue with that. People are obviously free to patronize and trust whatever information source they choose. I would just encourage everyone to "check under the hood" from time to time. When it becomes obvious that your source didn't give you the whole story and they've left out important parts of a story and an issue in order to push a political agenda, you are being poorly served.

Every media outlet makes mistakes. That's why I encourage people to seek out a wide range of outlets. Even if you disagree with their leanings, it is a very good thing to practice listening to people you disagree with. If you live in an echo chamber - where all you receive is information that supports your own preconceived notions - you will never grow as a person.

Just MHO.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

Hasn't obama just ordered the entire ranch to be bombed yet?  You know he wants to.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Hasn't obama just ordered the entire ranch to be bombed yet?  You know he wants to.



I smell a reality show in the making.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Hasn't obama just ordered the entire ranch to be bombed yet?  You know he wants to.



Funny that you haven't admitted that you were wrong (or lying) about the feds slaughtering the cattle and burying them.

We know you DON'T want to.

Oh yeah, and the feds aren't on Bundy's ranch.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Hasn't obama just ordered the entire ranch to be bombed yet?  You know he wants to.
> ...



LOL - see what I mean. lies, spin, hyperbole, ignore the facts  ..... rinse and repeat.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Guy, please point out which of those statements were factually inaccurate.
> 
> Ruby RIdge happened on Bush's watch. I'm not sure why you guys keep trying to hang these dead Nazis on Clinton, because Bush's folks were in charge when they were dealt with.



JoeB, you are a piece of shit. I mean, you must realize that you're an evil troll, right?

Now, as to what is inaccurate. Well to start with, Weaver was not a Nazi - not even close. Weaver was.

Now look Joeb, you're a lying sack of shit, a putrid boil on the ass of humanity, we get it. But Weaver belonged the the Christian fundamentalist Chaldeans and believed that modern society was corrupt. He moved his family to rural Idaho to homeschool and raise them in concert with his faith.

Now look, you want to murder every Christian in America, in a great Stalinist purge, I get it. But the ONLY crime Weaver committed was homeschooling his children, and for that, his 14 year old son was brutally murdered by US Marshall William Degan. Degan also murdered Kevin Harris, and shot Randy Weaver, before Weaver could finally kill Degan and stop his murder spree. 

For those who don't know, the events of August 21, 1992 were that based on an entrapment sting where Weaver sold 2 LEGAL shotguns to an undercover federal agent, who then sawed the shotguns down - as verified in court testimony, Degan lead an assault team to arrest/kill weaver. As the paramilitary group breached the weaver property, the family dog barked at the intruders. Weavers son Samuel and Kevin Harris were hunting - which is why the dog was out there, and saw a group of armed thugs brutally gun down his dog. Samuel fired at the intruders and missed. Degan riddled the 14 year old with automatic gun fire and then turned and fired at Harris. 

Degan shot him from concealment. Degan failed to make a fatal shot, and Harris returned fire, killing Degan and wounding one of the other attackers. The 3 remaining killers retreated and Harris retreated to the family cabin. The FBI was called in and surrounded the cabin. Firing on 16 year old Sara as she attempted to use the outhouse. The FBI brought in Assassin Lon Horiuchi, a seasoned killer who had murdered many people. 

On the Third day of the stand off, Vicki Weaver stepped outside with her 10 month old in her arms. Horiuchi shot her in the head and killed her. Horiuch then shot Harris through the window of the cabin, fired at 16 year old Sara, but missed.

Now look Joeb, you're a fucking liar, and a pile of shit with no redeeming features. But you're also stupid, so you make stupid claims.

Weaver was never associated with any Nazi group - ever. Leftist piles of shit like you TRIED to tie him to a Supremacist group, but that too was false. 2 of the 183 members of the Church Weaver attended in Naples, Idaho, belonged to the Aryan Nations. That is the big connection that scum from the bottom of the outhouse like you made.

Weaver sued the fuck out of the federal government for murdering his wife and son - and won. The state of Idaho issued a capital murder warrant against Lon Horiuchi, who never again stepped foot in the state for fear of prosecution.

Only the most depraved praise a government openly murdering citizens, Joeb.

We wonder how the holocaust happened - the answer is you.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Hasn't obama just ordered the entire ranch to be bombed yet?  You know he wants to.



No WAY, that might hurt a tortoise.

He did order a drone strike on Bundy, though....


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## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> chikenwing said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Yeah, right after the feds circled the burning compound in copters shooting hundreds of bullets into the wreckage.  Did you miss the part where the survivors said they were shot at by the Feds as they tried to leave the compound?


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 11, 2014)

I see that the spin is now that when the government requires that someone pay their bills, then this is communism. And, yet, I would have thought that if the people have a right to use public lands as they please, then THAT was communism. I'll have to get in touch with Rush and sort this out...


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## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Yeah, now THERE'S a report to hang your hat on - they call this public land the rancher's "ancestral" land in their headline.
> LOL -  What a crock.
> 
> So I guess the family that has lived in public housing long enough can claim the building as their "ancestral" property ?????????
> ...



Did you know if you squat in a house long enough, you can file to own it legally?


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## RKMBrown (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > chikenwing said:
> ...



The plan was to burn them to death so there would be no survivors. Dead people can't talk.


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## bodecea (Apr 11, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > As stated Earlier, Randy Weaver's family was removed from the Gene Pool  under Bush-41's watch.
> ...



Insight into your wishes and dreams right there.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, now THERE'S a report to hang your hat on - they call this public land the rancher's "ancestral" land in their headline.
> ...



I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but you've repeatedly posted ill-informed, falsehoods regarding this issue.

First- this guy doesn't live on the public lands in question. And none of his family have ever lived on any of the public lands in question. There is no such thing as squatter's rights (adverse possession) to a piece of land you've never squatted on. 

Second - This guy (or his family that preceded him) could have filed a homestead claim to at least some of the land in question, but they didn't.

Third - this man has NEVER claimed ownership of the land his cattle are grazing on. But he HAS acknowledged his unpaid debt of grazing fees. The amount is disputed, but the fact that he owes at least $300,000 in back grazing fees is undisputed.

Four - Do you STILL believe that anyone should be allowed to set up their private commercial enterprise on public lands without restriction? If so, what do you think strip malls, clusters of fast food restaurants and maybe a Walmart or two would do for our national parks?

Commercial enterprises DO exit in national parks and on public lands if the business owner pays the appropriate fees.


----------



## GreenBean (Apr 11, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



*County Commissioner Says Bundy Supporters Better Have Funeral Plans*


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > chikenwing said:
> ...



Maybe you missed the part about where the davidians murdered an agent and then hunkered down behind their women and children - all having been indoctrinated to die before "being taken alive."

Oh yeah, and did you catch the part about so many of the deaths inside the compound being suicides and "mercy killings"???

And did you miss the part about the helicopters RECEIVING fire but never firing themselves?

I'm beginning to detect a pattern here.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

GreenBean said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Yup - you take up arms against law enforcement agents who are executing a court-ordered action, it will not end well for you.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Insight into your wishes and dreams right there.



Even for you, that's a pretty stupid post, Shortbus....


----------



## peach174 (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...




AND has a powerful close friend in Washington like Sen. Harry Reid.
Harry Reid - Coyote Springs

This long history between the two men caused some to claim that actions which Senator Reid took to assist Mr. Whittemore in getting the environmental rulings needed to develop the property were improper and beyond what would be done for a non-donor.

He is the last of the Ranchers' who has not caved in. The rest all sold out.
By the end of the 1990s, the government had bought out all of the existing grazing permits from Clark County ranchers; all, that is except for Cliven Bundy&#8217;s. Bundy refused to sell his rights.
http://mvprogress.com/2014/03/19/bunkerville-rancher-prepares-to-battle-feds-again-for-land/

The Rancher has been paying the State Fees but not the Federal Fees.


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## Plasmaball (Apr 11, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Grampa Murked U said:
> ...



Gramps that is one source you really should judge..


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

peach174 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



So the feds purchased the grazing rights from other ranchers and they accepted. Good for them, I'm glad they found a deal they liked.

Of course none of that changes the fact that this guy is about 20 years behind on his grazing fees and is rightfully having his cattle removed.

In fact NONE of the smokescreens provided by the Action Alert talking points change that very basic fact. Pay up or get off our land. I only regret that they're not gonna make him clean up all that cow shit he's leaving behind on my land.


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## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.


Are you talking about the Davidians or the federal Cossacks?


----------



## Erand7899 (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



The pattern is clear, you have your mind made up, and facts are not going to interfere with that.  

However, if the facts were as cut and dried, as you like to pretend, there would have been no reason for the FBI to have bulldozed the site after their investigation was over.  There would have been no reason to refuse to allow the Texas Rangers to join that investigation.

Whenever a government agency is allowed to investigate its own wrong doing, one has to take the results as dubious at best.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

MikeK said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



It happened in Russia too?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Erand7899 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



LOL - you present speculation and call them "facts" that I am ignoring?

Pretty funny. The evidence supports my post. You got any evidence or are you just gonna rely on conspiracy theories?


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## peach174 (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Yeah, just focus on the one point and not the whole picture of what is really gong on here.

Why should he have to pay double? He is paying the State Fees but not the Federal Fees.
Paying State and Federal for the same thing, brings up the cost on beef prices for us the consumers.


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## Plasmaball (Apr 11, 2014)

peach174 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...


What's really going on is the man has ignored a court order from a federal judge and hasn't paid fees for 20 years because he doesn't follow federal laws. " his words".

That's what is going on. It's not that complicated of a story


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## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


Sorry if the metaphor was a bit too intricate for you.  So I'll try to explain.

The Cossacks were the highest level of what in Czarist Russia might be considered "law enforcement."  Their primary function was to protect the aristocracy but they often were used to enforce collection of tribute (taxes) and to punish dissenters, which they were notoriously proficient at.  When it was necessary to set an example for the peasantry they would brutally murder an offender and set fire to his house.

If you saw the movie, _Doctor Zhivago,_ you saw the Cossacks in action during an early scene when they rode down a small group of political dissenters on a public street, trampling them with their horses and hacking at them with swords.

Is the metaphor a bit more clear now?


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## peach174 (Apr 11, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



What's really going on is the man has to pay the State and the Feds for the same grass the cattle are feeding on, while Sen. Reid got everything OKed for his friend to have the desert tortoise habitat moved so that he could build.
This is about Federal abuse, corruption and double taxation.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Here's the latest on this...

County Commissioner Says Bundy Supporters &#8220;Better Have Funeral Plans&#8221;

Clark County Commissioner Tom Collins has caused outrage by remarking that Utahns planning to travel to Nevada to support Cliven Bundy in his standoff against the feds &#8220;better have funeral plans&#8221;.

The comments were revealed by Darin Bushman, a Piute County, Utah, commissioner after he spoke with Collins about Utah ranchers and his colleagues on the County Commission complaining about tactics used by Bureau of Land Management agents during their seizure of Bundy&#8217;s cattle in southern Nevada.

&#8220;I was just told by commissioner Collins of Clark County NV that all of us folks from Utah are a bunch of &#8220;inbred bastards&#8221; and if we are coming to Clark County NV to support Cliven Bundy we all &#8220;better have funeral plans&#8221;. We should &#8220;turn our asses around on mind our own f-ing business&#8221;. Now there&#8217;s some classy leadership for you,&#8221; wrote Bushman on his official Facebook page.

After the story was picked up by the Las Vegas Review Journal, Bushman responded to the controversy by posting on Facebook, &#8220;I guess I&#8217;ve made an enemy in Las Vegas.&#8221; The commissioner also lambasted Clark County Sheriff Douglas Gillespie as being, &#8220;too spineless to exercise his Jurisdiction&#8221;. Earlier this week, Cliven Bundy called on Sheriff Gillespie to start arresting BLM feds on charges of trespassing and theft...

More:
» County Commissioner Says Bundy Supporters ?Better Have Funeral Plans? Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

It's starting to look more and more like Tiananmen Square.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Lawmaker: Nev. Cattle Roundup &#8216;Reminded Me Of Tiananmen Square&#8217;


Republican Arizona lawmakers are upset with a brewing showdown in Nevada between the federal government and a rancher who claims rights to graze his cattle in a remote area about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

Rep. Bob Thorpe of Flagstaff said Thursday he is among about three dozen state legislators sending a letter to federal and Nevada officials about the standoff between rancher Cliven Bundy and Bureau of Land Management officials.

Federal officials say Bundy has racked up more than $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees over the years while disregarding several court orders to remove his animals.

Thorpe says lawmakers aren&#8217;t arguing over whether Bundy has broken laws or violated grazing agreements. They&#8217;re more concerned with what they perceive as government heavy-handedness and how officials are restricting protesters to &#8220;free speech zones&#8221; near the closed off federal land.

&#8220;Watching that video last night created a visceral reaction in me,&#8221; Townsend told the Review-Journal. &#8220;It sounds dramatic, but it reminded me of Tiananmen Square. I don&#8217;t recognize my country at this point.&#8221;

Ammon Bundy, told the Spectrum of St. George, Utah, that he was hit with stun charges twice...

More:
Tea Party Lawmaker: Nev. Cattle Roundup ?Reminded Me Of Tiananmen Square? « CBS Las Vegas


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



Oh i'm pretty sure Communist Globalists are all-in on Eminent Domain. If Big Brother says it's his, it's his. End of story. It's so sad so many in this country have become servile Authority-Worshippers.


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## theHawk (Apr 11, 2014)

This could be Obama's Waco moment.  Any chance to kill off some of those old pesky rural white people, is an opportunity no Dem Prez can pass up.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

peach174 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...



I'm sorry. You mad because I'm not swallowing all the BS distractions. You are back on "the price of beef" distraction? 

You don't like the law? Get your votes together and change 'em. UNTIL THEN - dude is gonna pay what he owes or get the heck off my land.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

MikeK said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



You sarcasm challenged?


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> And that is why it is abuse of government power.
> 
> The government Changed The Rules via bureaucratic regulatory fiat.
> 
> That is not the Rule of Law, it is the Whim of the Bureaucrat, and a hallmark of totalitarianism.



Yes, and now he's a 'Terrorist.' Just like that, he's branded a 'Criminal' only worthy of being crushed by Big Brother. It's what's best for America and the children. Blah Blah Blah. But the saddest part of this travesty, is seeing so many defend and cheer Big Brother on.


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## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



My response was to the living in public housing post.  

I never said he claimed ownership of the land, I said his family has grazed their cattle there for generations.  

I don't consider grazing your cattle to be in the same vein as putting up a restaurant. Grass grows back, you know that, don't you?  In fact, without the grazing it could become so overgrown as to be useless for camping and such.  

Why do you equate eating grass with building stores?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



BINGO - we have a winner.

All these attempts to make it sound more complicated are just bullshit talking points that came directly from a militia group's action alert. I linked it in another thread.

Pure propaganda.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



It's because Big Brother says so. That's pretty much the gist of what the coming Authority-Worshipper replies will be. Stay tuned.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



1) Yes, you did - you claimed squatter's rights which is a claim of ownership.

2) I equate government giving freebies to commercial enterprises with government giving freebies to commercial enterprises. 

3) You do realize that people are not "camping and such" amongst the cows don't you? And overgrown? This part of Nevada - unlikely. But if it were to happen that would sure kill out the camping 'cause people just HATE to camp in places where there is grass and trees and such .....


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

People need to read up a bit more on this story. There's much more to it and it goes back a long time. Who's really the 'Thief' and 'Criminal' in this?


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## peach174 (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...




You think that they liked it?
How do you know for certain?
It can get pretty darn scary when the Feds come down on people with heavy handedness.
These are some the same Ranchers that are backing him up with the protests.


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## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Oh please, you equate keeping the plants under control with building a building.  The truth is, this originally was a beneficial arrangement.  The ranchers got to let their cattle graze and the government didn't have to cut back the weeds.  Then the government decided they could make some money off of the ranchers, so they brought in the idea of endangering the turtles, which the government themselves killed.  

It doesn't make since from start to finish, nor does your greed (I want my money!)  Do you really think you get any of that money?  No, you get bigger prices on your beef, that's what you get.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

And more Americans should become educated on Eminent Domain. Do you really own anything? What's yours, is actually Big Brother's. That's what our Supreme Court ruled a few years back. Most Americans probably don't even realize that.


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## Howey (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > April 19, 1993 - Waco Tragedy
> ...




OK...let me see if I have this right. [MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION] should be on meds for stating facts but the nutcases defending this guy, Koresh, McVeigh, et al, are sane?

Here's what I see.

This dude was breaking the law by not paying the fees to graze his cattle on federal land. He refused to pay those fees after paying them for many years.

Period.

So now all tin-hatted militia types are rallying around this guy, crying like two year olds.


When all he had to do was follow the law.

It's just that simple. Follow the law, you don't get in trouble.

Don't like the law? Run for office and get it changed.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

The Chinese were just enforcing the law in Tiananmen Square too.  The students didn't own it.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

peach174 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...



I think they liked it because they took the money. Bundy didn't like it and he didn't take the money.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Do they? And what about his rights?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Why would the government need to "cut back the weeds"?
By the way - you do know that grazing fees were in effect long before the turtles don't you. And Bundy and his family paid them because it was worth it to get the feed and the range for his cattle. Bundy got pissed off about the turtles and then decided he wasn't going to pay anymore - he acknowledged that the grazing fees were due, but he had his panties in a bunch at the feds so he said he would pay Clark County. But he's never paid anything to Clark County.

You appear to only know what the militia action alert talking points told you to know - on the rest you seem to know nothing. How come?

Welfare, deadbeat cowboy. Get off my land and clean up all that cow shit on your way out!


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## candycorn (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Yeah, now THERE'S a report to hang your hat on - they call this public land the rancher's "ancestral" land in their headline.
> LOL -  What a crock.
> 
> So I guess the family that has lived in public housing long enough can claim the building as their "ancestral" property ?????????
> ...



Just another manic right wing "anger" du jour occurrence.


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > And that is why it is abuse of government power.
> ...



To charge the rancher for grazing rights that his family had had for decades.

BLM bureaucrats:

_Bundy's dispute with the government began about 1993 when the bureau changed grazing rules for the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area to protect an endangered desert tortoise, KLAS reported._

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/10/us/nevada-rancher-rangers-cattle-showdown/


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## peach174 (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



This is about the Department abuse it doesn't matter which party is in power because both has corruption in them.
It is also my land too because I pay taxes.
I don't think any of us should have to pay double taxation on anything and we all are paying double taxation on many things.


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> And more Americans should become educated on Eminent Domain. Do you really own anything? What's yours, is actually Big Brother's. That's what our Supreme Court ruled a few years back. Most Americans probably don't even realize that.




Here's a good one:

_All Andy Johnson wanted to do was build a stock pond on his sprawling eight-acre Wyoming farm. He and his wife Katie spent hours constructing it, filling it with crystal-clear water, and bringing in brook and brown trout, ducks and geese. It was a place where his horses could drink and graze, and a private playground for his three children. 

But instead of enjoying the fruits of his labor, the Wyoming welder says he was harangued by the federal government, stuck in what he calls a petty power play by the Environmental Protection Agency. He claims the agency is now threatening him with civil and criminal penalties  including the threat of a $75,000-a-day fine._

Wyoming welder faces $75,000 a day in EPA fines for building pond on his property | Fox News


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Howey said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



It really IS that simple.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



That "rule" was changed in the 40s, when the BLM was formed - and it was Congress passing a law, not "regulatory fiat".


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

peach174 said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > peach174 said:
> ...



No, it's really not about that. It's about a deadbeat who suddenly refused to pay grazing fees because he got his panties in a bunch.


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## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.


Imagine you are a police commander called to a scene in which a man believed to be an insane religious fanatic has barricaded himself in a house with several followers, their wives, and several dozen children, including infants.  These fanatics have sufficient food to last them for many months.  They are heavily armed and already have committed to armed resistance.  

Your purpose is to arrest these fanatics.  So what do you do?  Knowing there are infant children in that house, and knowing that the fanatics have threatened to commit mass suicide if any attempt to breach is made, do you crash through a wall of the house with a military tank and introduce flammable, military grade tear gas?  

If not, why not?  

Please answer that question.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > And more Americans should become educated on Eminent Domain. Do you really own anything? What's yours, is actually Big Brother's. That's what our Supreme Court ruled a few years back. Most Americans probably don't even realize that.
> ...



What does that have to do with this at all?


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > And more Americans should become educated on Eminent Domain. Do you really own anything? What's yours, is actually Big Brother's. That's what our Supreme Court ruled a few years back. Most Americans probably don't even realize that.
> ...



I expect them to label him and his wife 'Terrorists' or 'Criminals' any day now. So sad and pathetic.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Nothing at all. If they had a real case in favor of this welfare cowboy - they would state it. The fact that they keep posting diversions and conspiracy theories and ....

"ewwww ewwww remember Waco"

Is a very clear indication that they have no case.

Eminent domain? LOL - REALLY - how is that a factor in this case AT ALL? It isn't.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



It's a factor, and it's very disturbing. Do you really own anything? You probably don't even realize that what you think is yours, is actually Big Brother's. If he says it's so, it becomes so.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

MikeK said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



Personally, I would advocate for having done things a little differently. But slightly different and that is with the benefit of hindsight.

What I don't do is let murders get away with murder just because they are staying home.

When you murder law enforcement officers who are serving a legal warrant, things just might get messy. The blood is clearly on the davidians hands.


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## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



There were no murderers.  They attacked the compound and the compound fought back.  They could have picked up Koresh earlier in the day, in the nearby town and NO ONE would have got hurt.

You don't find it strange they had the cameras all set up when they went in?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



It is absolutely NOT a factor in this case because the ownership of the land in question has never been in dispute.

The attempt at diversion is just one more in a long line of diversionary tactics prompted by the right-wing militia action alert talking points. They are designed to try to divert attention away from the simple fact that this welfare cowboy got his panties in a bunch and stopped pay his grazing fees.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



No murderers ???? Tell that to the agents who they murdered - or their families.

The fact that you choose to ignore that and put your sympathy with murdering doomsday cultists says a lot more about you that it says about what happened in Waco.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Certainly they are breaking the law.  A law the government passed just to give it justification for taking the property.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

Howey said:


> OK...let me see if I have this right. [MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION] should be on meds for stating facts but the nutcases defending this guy, Koresh, McVeigh, et al, are sane?
> 
> Here's what I see.
> 
> ...



Someone was defending McVeigh?



Oh wait, you are just lying, because you're a sack of shit with no integrity.


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## peach174 (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Yeah, now THERE'S a report to hang your hat on - they call this public land the rancher's "ancestral" land in their headline.
> LOL -  What a crock.
> 
> So I guess the family that has lived in public housing long enough can claim the building as their "ancestral" property ?????????
> ...



Public Housing wasn't around 150 years ago, same as the BLM Department which was established in 1946.
The Rancher's family has been there for 150 years way before BLM.
As far as I know the grandfather clause is still a law and the Governor of Nevada agrees.


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## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I watched the entire thing unfold on television.  I watched the trials later.  The feds messed up, and they did so with a flair.  If someone is trying to sneak in my second floor window and I have a gun, I'm gonna start shooting too, especially if they shoot first.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Oh, you Communist Entitlement douches hate Welfare now? News to me.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Yes, we must rid our Nation of those evil Pond Terrorists. We cannot allow these crimes to continue. Think of the children. We have to do it for them.


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## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


That evades the question.  Please answer the question with the kind of specifics it deserves, because the issue is the lives of innocent children.

If you cannot answer the question it would seem you have been running off here about something you have no business pontificating about.  

So either answer the question or admit you don't know what you're talking about.  And then we'll get on to the rest of your commentary a bit later.


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## jillian (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



that would presume he had any credibility.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

I see - lost the welfare rancher case - so let's toss out a different case.

One more distraction.

As I have said many times on this thread. There are many instances of governmental abuse and overreach - but this ain't one of 'em.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

jillian said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



To be fair - I think they are talking about a different case (i guess because their arguments are so lame on the Nevada case, they introduced a different one).

I deleted the post.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> I see - lost the welfare rancher case - so let's toss out a different case.
> 
> One more distraction.
> 
> As I have said many times on this thread. There are many instances of governmental abuse and overreach - but this ain't one of 'em.



Since when do you Communist Entitlement douches hate Welfare? Are you really gonna go with that? Seems really weak and dishonest.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > I see - lost the welfare rancher case - so let's toss out a different case.
> ...



Be that as it may - I detest the notion that taxpayers "owe" freebies to anyone.
(maybe your insults and labels were ignorantly applied?)


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

The only positive attribute in this entire mess is the image of the United States preparing to murder its citizens in order to take their property.   Yes, it has been done before.  This is the first in the internet age where actions like this cannot be ignored, dismissed or swept under the rug.  The nation is watching.  The world is watching.   This won't be like the murder of Donald Scott.  This is going in every nook and cranny on the planet.    America, the beacon of freedom.  Gone.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



So it's about 'Welfare' then? Man, talk about a stupid distraction attempt. I've never met a Communist Entitlement douche yet who didn't just love Taxpayers paying for their Freebies. You really so sure you wanna go with that argument? Doesn't seem too sincere.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Judging from the caliber your posts - I'm very flattered that you disagree with me. I can't imagine a better compliment. Thank you.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The only positive attribute in this entire mess is the image of the United States preparing to murder its citizens in order to take their property.   Yes, it has been done before.  This is the first in the internet age where actions like this cannot be ignored, dismissed or swept under the rug.  The nation is watching.  The world is watching.   This won't be like the murder of Donald Scott.  This is going in every nook and cranny on the planet.    America, the beacon of freedom.  Gone.



Yeah .... except it isn't his land.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Sorry to offend, but you're very disingenuous. Outraged over Welfare? A Communist Entitlement douche? Really? Not buying your outrage son.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



LOL - I made it clear I'm flattered - not offended. I couldn't care less what you buy or don't buy. And I don't care about your lil' name-calling hissy either.

This rancher stopped paying his grazing fees because he got his panties in a twist over turtles. He's been feeding off the public trough for close to 20 years now. Time to kick his freeloading ass off the gravy train.

Everything else is just a piss poor attempt at distraction and at whipping the Turner Diaries crowd into a frenzy.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Seriously son, come back with a more genuine and coherent argument. No one here is buying a Communist Entitlement douche's 'outrage' over Welfare. Coming from you, it's a very stupid and dishonest argument. If it came from someone else, we could buy it. But you love Taxpayer-funded Freebies. You're not foolin anyone. So try another angle. Because this one ain't gonna work.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



So that's what ya got?
If this is an example of the support this ol' rancher has, he's screwed.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

I can only hope that someone of crafty intelligence can take this incident and use it.  Not only in the United States.   Certainly an incident like this can be used to Russia to undermine obama's credibility in  conflict.

A country that would kill its own citizens to steal their property, will not hesitate to steal the property of anyone else.


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## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...


 
Bundy has title to the land in question?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 11, 2014)

Howey said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



I looked at everything from the fox news articles and other stories that ran yesterday afternoon, Howie.  I believe he needs to obey the law of the land.  If they say he owes the money and he says he has it - let him pay it and be done with it.  David Koresh should have come out of the house when he was asked to.  The fact he refused to led to the belief he was hiding something - perhaps harming the children inside.  He should have been willing to show the authorities there was nothing wrong there.   My 2 cents.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



He's screwed regardless. Thanks to Goose Stepping Authority-Worshippers like you.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> I really do fear for this man and his family's safety. Sadly, I don't think Big Brother would have any problem killing this man and his family over some grazing cattle. It just wouldn't surprise me these days.



He's breaking the law. We all have to obey the law if we want a civil society. Or are you an anarchist?  You prefer anarchy?


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Eminent Domain doesn't apply to this particular case, but it does resemble it. Look into Eminent Domain a bit more. If Big Brother says it's his, it's his. Very little recourse for the little people.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



ah, more name-calling.

You're not really doing him any good with that now are you?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



I can appreciate it when people admit when they are wrong.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > I really do fear for this man and his family's safety. Sadly, I don't think Big Brother would have any problem killing this man and his family over some grazing cattle. It just wouldn't surprise me these days.
> ...



Yes we know, it's for America and the children. Can't have those evil Cattle Grazer Terrorists running around free to wreak havoc on innocent men, women, and children. We must preserve our American way of life.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



You got that link showing where i claimed Eminent Domain applied to this particular case? If not, i can appreciate it when people admit when they are wrong. Thanks.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > In the video you will see the law enforcement all left peacefully and drove away.   I didn't see any snipers in the video.  I believe this is the outer perimeter of Bundys ranch and the actual ranch is down the road.
> ...



Oh my goodness. What a whole lot of hyperbole and drama. The rancher is in violation of the law and has been for a couple of decades.  He is a law breaker. A criminal.  The govenment isn't threatening him with violence, but he is being ordered to obey the law. As with any criminal, if he refused to obey the law, they may well go onto his property to arrest him. If he resists arrest, they may need to be violent. He is bringing this all on himself. The land he is using to graze his cattle is not his land. He has no right to use it or to damage it, an cattle do a lot of damage to grazing land.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



More good than you stupid Goose Steppers ever will.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Big Brother can always count on you, huh? So sad.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



So, you are in favor of people breaking the law?  Do you know what grazing cattle herds do to land? The damage they do to land? This is not the rancher's land. Would it be okay if he sent his cattle herd over to your place and destory your yard and garden?  You'd have no problem with that, right?  In fact, as long as you think it is okay for people to break the law and use what isn't theirs, you'd probably think  it would be okay for the rancher to send his ranch hands over to your place and just move in,  push your family out and live in your house and use it as they like, because that is what the rancher is doing to public lands, just taking it over for his own use irregardless of it being the property of someone else.


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## BlindBoo (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Actually, it was quite succinct.  I don't believe you were ever once referenced as any kind of a douche.


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## Esmeralda (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



You know, you are such a fucking idiot, you don't even understand what the term Big Brother refers to or means. You've probably only ever even heard of the novel 1984, never read it, and if you did, you obviously did not get what it is about. And, on top of that, I highly doubt you've ever read anything else Orwell wrote and do not at all have any idea where he is coming from.  You're continuously misusing the term 'Big Brother' and making a complete fool of yourself in so doing.  What a jerk.  In fact, you probably haven't even heard of the novel 1984. You've just heard the term big brother and think it means something it doesn't. What a fool.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



Him and his family were there long long before Big Brother stole the land. It's the same as when he stole the land from Native Americans. So who's really the 'Thief' and 'Criminal' here?


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

BlindBoo said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



He or she is a Communist Entitlement douche. So no one's buying the 'Outrage' over Welfare. Since when do Communist Entitlement douches have a problem with Taxpayers paying for Freebies? So i'll stand by my assessment of his or her's argument. It's absolute Bullshite.


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## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


What you believe Koresh should have done is not what he did.  So what do you think should have been done about that?


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## Esmeralda (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



Nice try, but you are the quintessential boot-licking Big Brother Worshipper. It is what it is.


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## BlindBoo (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



There is no terrorist.   Rhetorical hyperboles is really all you got isn't it?

The travesty here is that he's been allowed to break the rule of law for 20 some odd years with little or no consequence.

Thin that herd. Get them to the market.  Beef, it's what's for dinner.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 11, 2014)

The government is at fault here. They didn't say, "pretty please" when they asked him to pay the fees.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

BlindBoo said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



Big Brother is the criminal thief in this. And it's so sad so many Americans feel compelled to shill. This man is a good man, he's not a criminal. Especially when compared to the all-too numerous criminals in our Government. Let the man graze his cattle. Big Brother can go to hell.


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## 9thIDdoc (Apr 11, 2014)

How DARE the public think public land belongs to them!!!


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 11, 2014)

While law enforcement agencies will negotiate with hostage takers, which is exactly what Koresh was doing with the kids, they also put a SWAT team on the roof to take them out, should they come to the conclusion that the hostages are in danger of being killed or injured by the hostage takers.

Koresh knew that, and he made no effort whatsoever to protect those kids. He was using them as a shield.


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## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> While law enforcement agencies will negotiate with hostage takers, which is exactly what Koresh was doing with the kids, they also put a SWAT team on the roof to take them out, should they come to the conclusion that the hostages are in danger of being killed or injured by the hostage takers.
> 
> Koresh knew that, and he made no effort whatsoever to protect those kids. He was using them as a shield.


So what?


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Here's the latest...

Heavily-Armed Feds Surround Nevada Ranch

A 20-year dispute between a Nevada rancher and federal rangers over illegal cattle grazing erupted into an Old West-style showdown on the open range this week, even prompting self-proclaimed members of militia groups from across the country to join the rancher in fighting what they say is U.S. "tyranny."

What began as a legal fight between longtime rancher Cliven Bundy and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management has escalated as Bundy kept his cattle on the federal land, and the government has responded by beginning roundups of the livestock.

A confrontation teetered on violence Wednesday when Bundy family members and dozens of supporters angrily confronted a group of rangers holding Tasers and barking dogs on leashes near Bunkerville, about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

Federal officials say a police dog was kicked and officers were assaulted.

Bundy family members say they were thrown to the ground or jolted with a Taser.
In the end, the rangers got into their white SUVs and drove away, a YouTube video of the incident showed.

"Get out of our state!" the cheering protesters yelled at the rangers as they departed in several vehicles. "BLM go away! BLM go away!" they added, referring to the Bureau of Land Management.

The entire incident is now under investigation, Amy Lueders, the bureau's director in Nevada, said Thursday.

To some, the 67-year-old Bundy is a hero who hails from a long family of ranchers stretching back to the Wild West.

To environmentalists and the feds, however, he's an outlaw of sorts who owes U.S. taxpayers more than $1 million in unpaid grazing fees.

The U.S. government is rounding up Bundy's cattle that it says have been grazing illegally on public lands in Clark County for more than 20 years, according to the land-management bureau and the National Park Service...

More:
Showdown: Nevada rancher, feds face off over grazing rights - CNN.com
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Probably label him a 'Cult Leader' and 'Child Molester' next. Big Brother knows how much that riles up the Sheeple. A dirty ploy to justify their brutal crimes. Seriously, i hope & pray this man and his family survive this. It's getting pretty ugly.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > I sure hope he survives this dispute with Big Brother. We all saw what happened to those women and children at Waco. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. God help him.
> ...



  Hey dumb ass!!!  From what I'm seeing most so called right wingers are siding with the BLM on this.
   You'll have to find another issue to try and drum up some hate.
Douche bag....


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Why yes, I happen to have that link.



> Nodog-Eminent domain? LOL - REALLY - how is that a factor in this case AT ALL? It isn't.





> *paulitician - It's a factor, *and it's very disturbing.



Now you were saying about being wrong .........


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## BlindBoo (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



I agree.  They've been in cahoots with this freeloading thief for 20 years now, right?  I think Issa needs to investigate.  Make those ranchers pay that minimal fee to use the public's land.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...




 Had he paid his grazing fees we wouldnt even be discussing this.
Truthfully I wish I could back the rancher on this but I haven't seen any hard evidence that this anything but him refusing to pay his bills.
  If it comes out this is some kind of enviro BS or some good ol boy network scam?
Then hell yes I'm for the rancher.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> While law enforcement agencies will negotiate with hostage takers, which is exactly what Koresh was doing with the kids, they also put a SWAT team on the roof to take them out, should they come to the conclusion that the hostages are in danger of being killed or injured by the hostage takers.
> 
> Koresh knew that, and he made no effort whatsoever to protect those kids. He was using them as a shield.



Yes, and their blood is certainly on his hands.
In hindsight, I would say the bulldozer was a bad idea. But considering the suicide pact the cultists had made, I understand why officials felt a sense of urgency to try to rescue whoever they could.
But again, in hindsight, I think a more extensive use of non-lethal force (like the tear gas) may have produced a better outcome.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I did not claim it applied to this particular case. I said Eminent Domain is a factor and is very disturbing. It's nothing to just ignore and dismiss. You misunderstood. So like i said, i can appreciate it when people admit when they are wrong. Thanks.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 11, 2014)

MikeK said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > While law enforcement agencies will negotiate with hostage takers, which is exactly what Koresh was doing with the kids, they also put a SWAT team on the roof to take them out, should they come to the conclusion that the hostages are in danger of being killed or injured by the hostage takers.
> ...



So, as someone stated earlier, when one decides to take up arms against a law enforcement agency, there should be no surprise as to what the outcome will be. I am certain that Koresh orchestrated the whole thing to it's inevitable conclusion.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



  He doesn't own the land. How can he have property rights?


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Yeah, i'm pretty sure ole Big Brother will be labeling this man a 'Cult Leader' and 'Child Molester' any day now. Our Government will say anything to justify its horrible crimes. I really do feel for this guy and his family.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

So now that we've aired it out on Waco, perhaps someone can tell me why this is anything other than hyperbole and a pathetic attempt to whip up the faithful  in trying to apply any similarities to this rancher.

As far as I know this rancher is not a cultist (well, nothing more serious than mormonism and if that is a cult it is a benign one), he isn't holding hostages, and he hasn't murdered any agents (yet).


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



BWAAAAAHAAAAAAA

Think anyone will buy it?


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## BlindBoo (Apr 11, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I think it began 20 years ago when because of the tortoise the BLM put a quota on his herd of 150 head.  That's when he stopped paying the fees.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Oh please!   Could you be any more dramatic??   lol

I have seen no serious argument that the land is anything but public land.  The gov't didn't take anything away.

And if there are any "Authority Worshippers" (whatever the hell that is) it is certainly not evident in this case.  This is about a rancher running a business on public land and refusing to pay the fees.  And about ignoring a legitimate court order.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



He can't obviously - so now bucket your seatbelt for the spin of a lifetime - LOL


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 11, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> So, as someone stated earlier, when one decides to take up arms against a law enforcement agency, there should be no surprise as to what the outcome will be. I am certain that Koresh orchestrated the whole thing to it's inevitable conclusion.



When law enforcement starts murdering your family, you can fight back, or lay down and die.


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## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...


 
Did Bundy EVER have title to the land? And if so, when did he sell it or lose title to it?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> And more Americans should become educated on Eminent Domain. Do you really own anything? What's yours, is actually Big Brother's. That's what our Supreme Court ruled a few years back. Most Americans probably don't even realize that.



  You never truly own property regardless due to property taxes.
Thats a bigger problem that we should be up in arms about then some rancher who refused to pay grazing fees.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



Yeah when you start murdering law enforcement officers, it is not going to end well for you.
and that of course is completely the fault of law enforcement. Because when you shoot a cop, by all rights he should hand you a lollipop and say thank you.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > And that is why it is abuse of government power.
> ...



Yeah, he refuses to pay the grazing fees for 21 years and "just like that" he is a criminal.

He defies a federal judge for 16 years and "just like that" he is a criminal.

Except they aren't going after HIM.  The feds are moving his cattle.  They haven't moved against him at all.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > And more Americans should become educated on Eminent Domain. Do you really own anything? What's yours, is actually Big Brother's. That's what our Supreme Court ruled a few years back. Most Americans probably don't even realize that.
> ...



Fine, then you can take that up with your campaign to reform property ownership laws.
In the meantime, kick this deadbeat, welfare cowboy off our land!


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> People need to read up a bit more on this story. There's much more to it and it goes back a long time. Who's really the 'Thief' and 'Criminal' in this?



YOu said this repeatedly yesterday and I challenged you to provide any information that is relevant to this case.  You did not.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



 Like I've said several times,I want to be on the ranchers side on this.
And you keep saying there's more to the story but you refuse to say what that might be.
  PLEASE!!! Help me switch sides on this issue by filling me in on this so far unexplained rights and facts on the issue.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



His rights?   His rights to graze his cattle on public land while refusing to pay the associated fees?  His right to defy a federal judge?

His rights have not been violated.  He owns over 150,000 acres of land.  But his cattle are on public land.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



  I can agree with you on this one. This is total bullshit!


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...




B'loney. His family had ranched cattle on that land since the 1870s, long before the BLM was established.   The Feds have no business nationalizing private ranch land.


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...




You are sorely mistaken in thinking that Public Land is actually in the interest of the country.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



It was never privately owned ranch land.  I have seen nothing in any story that shows that the 600,000 acres was ever owned by anyone.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



The federal government has owned that land since they bought it from mexico - long before this guy or his family got there.

reload.
Try another talking point - that was has been shot to hell.


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

The issue is why the Feds think they have the power to take over lands in any state.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Yeah, OK - you can take that up in your campaign to re=-write propertry ownership laws.

Until you are successful in doing that, kindly tell this welfare cowboy to get his cows off our land.

Thank you.


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## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

Let's stop all the BS posturing, shall we?

Despite all of the rhetoric proffered by Bundy and his family, can they provide any legal documentation that shows a history of ownership of the land in question even if it's no longer in their name?


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...




Was the purpose of the Mexican Cession to turn the Federal Government into a landlord to ranchers?

Who knew?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

BlindBoo said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



  If it's all about the tortoise then I feel a little more sympathy for the rancher.
Does the gov think the cows are destroying the tortoise environment? Are they worried the cows are going to step on em?
  Cows are pretty stupid but they do watch where they put their feet.
I'm not taking sides on this without more info myself.


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## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> The issue is why the Feds think they have the power to take over lands in any state.



Public land belongs to the American people of which you are one.


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> Let's stop all the BS posturing shall we.
> 
> Despite all of the rhetoric proffered by Bundy and his family, can they provide any legal documentation that shows a history of ownership of the land in question even if it's no longer in their name?



They had a long history of ranching cattle on the land until the BLM, a regulatory body stuffed with unaccountable and politicized bureaucrats decided to impose grazing fees.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



   Uuuuh...I agree.


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

Wow.  You collectivists are a nasty bunch.

It's insane and corrupt that the Federal government "owns" 85% of the land in Nevada.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



  But it was never private ranch land to begin with.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



LOL - so now this deadbeat rancher not paying his grazing fees is a product of .... what .... the Mexican Cessation ????????????

That's the biggest reach I've seen in four threads on this topic - and that is saying something.

LOL

Congratulations


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

Welfare?  Is the government giving out EBT cards for desert scrub or something?  

The government owns the air we breathe.   We're all on welfare.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



And the land has NEVER been private ranch land because no one wanted it. It has been the property of the federal government since it became part of the United States.

I swear - do you guys know ANYTHING about this issue?


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## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Let's stop all the BS posturing shall we.
> ...



I notice you didn't answer the question.

How long have the grazing fees been in place? I ask because it looks like the Bundy family have a LONG history of defying court orders AND not paying the grazing fees which other ranchers are paying.

In one article I read, it says that Cliven Bundy reportedly owes the BLM (and hence, the American taxpayers) $1 million in grazing fees. He's been doing this (thumbing his nose at court orders and not paying his grazing fees) and getting away with it a LOT longer than he should have, and now he cries foul?


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

> Welfare? Is the government giving out EBT cards for desert scrub or something?


Apparently they did for THIS guy. And now he's whining like a jilted hairdresser because he's been kicked off the gravy train.
Screw him.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

So, can anyone give me one reason that the taxpayers should continue feeding this guy's cattle for him?


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

The better question is why should the Feds own so much land?

Map Maker


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## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



His legal argument is that after 140 years of continuous use he has an implied easement.  He has continuously paid grazing fees to the state of Nevada for the use of the open range.  By payment of the fees the easement was perfected.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Yeah when you start murdering law enforcement officers, it is not going to end well for you.
> and that of course is completely the fault of law enforcement. Because when you shoot a cop, by all rights he should hand you a lollipop and say thank you.



The women and children were being shot at, before the Davidians shot back.  The women and children were then subsequently burned to death.  And in response and you defend the murderous acts of these federal agents based on your opinion that the Davidians did not have a right to liberty.   Then you make a joke about the incident created by the agents by saying the agents should have been so happy to see their friends die in their attack on liberty so as to hand out lolipops to the children and telling the children thank you instead of burning the children to death.  

You are easily the biggest piece of shit ever to post on this board.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



   Exactly. At this point I'm siding with the BLM.(As much as it pains me to side with the gov on most issues like this)
   If it turns out there's some other reason then failure to pay and this is a ploy to get rid of the rancher so some politician can benefit in some way It'll truly piss me off.


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## freedombecki (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> I sure hope he survives this dispute with Big Brother. We all saw what happened to those women and children at Waco. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. God help him.
> 
> 
> A long-simmering dispute between a Nevada cattle rancher and the federal Bureau of Land Management has reached a boiling point, and participants have their fingers crossed it wont erupt into violence.
> ...



Shades of Janet Reno. I hope they don't go after his family if he has any left to give horned toads the run of the land.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Ah, just label him a 'Cult Leader', murder em all, and call it a day. The Sheeple will gobble up anything their beloved Big Brother feeds em. Such is life in a Police State.


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## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Ah, just label him a 'Cult Leader', murder em all, and call it a day. The Sheeple will gobble up anything their beloved Big Brother feeds em. Such is life in a Police State.




And let's see if he posted a video on YouTube!


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Pretty sure you're the type who would justify your beloved Big Brother murdering this man and his whole family over some grazing cattle. You do come off as a servile Authority-Worshipper. I just call em like i see em.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > And more Americans should become educated on Eminent Domain. Do you really own anything? What's yours, is actually Big Brother's. That's what our Supreme Court ruled a few years back. Most Americans probably don't even realize that.
> ...



Very good point.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



But of course someone will argue that - just to drum up sympathy. They already have. But the "evidence" of this conspiracy is sadly lacking.

I agree that there are plenty of cases of governmental overreach and abuse of power.

I've looked this one over pretty closely and I don't think it is one of 'em.

If anyone ever comes up with some good evidence of anything to the contrary - I'll change my mind.


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## Sallow (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Nobody is "murdering" anybody.

This guy is breaking the law. Has been since 1993.

They are going to put it to a stop. If he fires on them..then he's going to have problems.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



Yes, some are more equal than others. Big Brother's rights are far more important & valid, than some little rancher peon's rights.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

Correction:  Big Brother doesn't have RIGHTS.  It has POWER.

Which it quite readily abuses in order to gain more POWER.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Sallow said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Oh, Big Brother will murder you over far less than firing on him. Bet on that.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Correction:  Big Brother doesn't have RIGHTS.  It has POWER.
> 
> Which it quite readily abuses in order to gain more POWER.



Might makes Right. That's what Authoritarianism is all about.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> So, can anyone give me one reason that the taxpayers should continue feeding this guy's cattle for him?



How much do you think the tax payers are paying for desert scrub?


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, just label him a 'Cult Leader', murder em all, and call it a day. The Sheeple will gobble up anything their beloved Big Brother feeds em. Such is life in a Police State.
> ...



Yeah, the duped Sheeple have their pitchforks out and are ready to lynch this poor guy. If Big Brother plays the old 'He's a crazed Cult Leader' card, the Sheeple are really gonna lose it. They'll be fully on board with a massacre. Doesn't take much to dupe em.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> The better question is why should the Feds own so much land?
> 
> Map Maker



And that (imho) is a legitimate question.

But it doesn't really mean anything to THIS particular case.
At THIS point, we follow existing law. If this case, any other case, or a cumulative review of all these cases leads us to believe that our current laws are flawed, we can push to change them.

But in a civilized society, we don't get to choose to disobey a law just because we don't like it. Especially when our founding fathers - who were well aware of how damaging it can be to leave citizens with no other option but rebellion - created peaceful and lawful avenues to address grievances.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...


You seem more concerned with assigning blame than with the horrendous deaths of twenty-one children, some as young as two.  The primary concern should have been the   safety of those innocent tots -- not the urgency of affirming the will of the State and its enforcement agents.  

It is believed Koresh was insane, so why even consider expecting him to behave rationally?  Would you agree the worst thing to do is provoke him -- which is exactly what they did.  And therein lies the tale.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > The better question is why should the Feds own so much land?
> ...





The Fed owning so much land is the germane issue.   85% of the land in Nevada is owned by the Feds.  How on earth is that in the interest of the state's residents when they are prevented from earning a living by petty bureaucrats in DC?


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



They should have picked him up in town a couple of hours earlier when there were no kids around.  Of course, they didn't have the cameras then either.  This was really a case of our government going off the deep end.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

> Then you make a joke about the incident created by the agents by saying the agents should have been so happy to see their friends die in their attack on liberty so as to hand out lolipops to the children



Re-writing what I said to generate some outrage I see. Well, I said no such thing - but I'd preferr you to dislike me intensely - being hated by someone of your caliber is the one of the greatest compliments I could receive.

Thank you.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



It is certainly not Cliven Bundy's private land, which is at the heart of this issue.  He grazed 900 head of cattle there for 21 years without paying the grazing fees required.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Don't like the law - change it. I may even support you.

But until you can change it - you abide by it.

That's MHO.

(While I don't believe this makes any difference to THIS case - I will say, I believe you've presented one of the most thought-provoking posts offered by any of those who believe the government should not be enforcing grazing fees on this rancher)


----------



## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...




Uh.   How about bureaucrats quit making up laws via regulatory fiat instead?


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> The issue is why the Feds think they have the power to take over lands in any state.



No, that's not close to "the issue".

The federal government has no need to "take over" land that it has always controlled.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 11, 2014)

Spoken like a True Collectivist.

But at least you get 10 Points For Consistency.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Correction:  Big Brother doesn't have RIGHTS.  It has POWER.
> 
> Which it quite readily abuses in order to gain more POWER.



I agree.
There are many cases that demonstrate the governments willingness to overreach and abuse their power.

This just ain't one of 'em.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



His argument is that his family predates the BLM, so he doesn't have to recognize federal law.

Tell us all, how long does a family have to be here to be able to ignore the law?  100 years?  50 years?

Shit changes and stomping your feet does not change that fact.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Spoken like a True Collectivist.
> 
> But at least you get 10 Points For Consistency.





When you've been made a fool of as badly as you have in this thread, I guess personal attacks are really all you've got left...


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Well - in the case of this rancher - the applicable laws were written by congress.
But if you are talking about something like the EPA's war on coal - then yes, I agree with you 100%.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Government stole the land from Native Americans. And now it's gonna steal yours. And don't think that's just far-fetched paranoia either. Eminent Domain is very real. When Big Brother wants yours, he's gonna take it. Such is life in this Police State.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Yeah, you call'em like you see'em.  The problem is, all you do is insinuate that there are facts we don't know.  But you never actually offer any of these facts.  You just stick with your "Big Brother is evil" routine.

The feds are not after the rancher or his family.  They are not surrounding the family's ranch.  They are simply removing trespass cattle from public land, per a federal judges orders.

The Bundy family has never owned the land in question.  But they want to use it, without paying fees or following any regulations.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



His rights have NOT been violated.  He has grazed his cattle on land he does not own for 21 years.  The feds are simply removing his cattle from public land after the rancher has refused to do so.


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## bendog (Apr 11, 2014)

There's a lot up the street than never had a house built.  I think I'll homestead and see how that works out for me.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Spoken like a true Big Brother worshipping apologist. He can always count on you. Nice job.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Government stole the land from Native Americans. And now it's gonna steal yours. And don't think that's just far-fetched paranoia either. Eminent Domain is very real. When Big Brother wants yours, he's gonna take it. Such is life in this Police State.



LOL - don't you ever get tired of being wrong. We took it from the Mexicans.
And we paid them.

You present a nonstop barrage of some of the most mindless drivel I have seen on these boards - and THAT - my friend, is saying something.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



The Feds are thieving pieces of shit. But hey, that's just how i feel anyway.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Government stole the land from Native Americans. And now it's gonna steal yours. And don't think that's just far-fetched paranoia either. Eminent Domain is very real. When Big Brother wants yours, he's gonna take it. Such is life in this Police State.



I am totally against the abses of the eminent domain laws.

Your problem is that you apparently do not understand what the eminent domain laws mean.

They did not take his land away from him.  He still has over 150,000 acres of land.  This is about public land and one man deciding that he can run a commercial enterprise on public land without paying a dime.

Ignoring the facts does not change them.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 11, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Londoner said:
> 
> 
> > Lovebears65 said:
> ...


I notice the article seem to leave out a few facts such as the Federal government show of might is in response to the son attacking K-9 officers and Bundy and his militia friends brandishing automatic weapons.  The article also seem to neglect Bundy's threats, arrest record and violation of court orders but that's to be expected from the Conservative Tribune, Small government, free markets, and traditional values.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Government stole the land from Native Americans. And now it's gonna steal yours. And don't think that's just far-fetched paranoia either. Eminent Domain is very real. When Big Brother wants yours, he's gonna take it. Such is life in this Police State.
> ...



We'll see how you feel when or if Big Brother comes to take yours. You might just have a different take then. But who knows? Lots of dumb sheeple out there. You could be one of em.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Oh please, spare us the downtrodden speech.  

If you have more facts, like you have hinted that you did, please post them.

If you have justification why this man should be allowed to run a commercial cattle operation on public land, lets hear it.

Otherwise you are just one of those whiney wannabe anarchists who would hide behind a cop at the first sign of trouble.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

> I notice the article seem to leave out a few facts such as the Federal government show of might is in response to the son attacking K-9 officers and Bundy and his militia friends brandishing automatic weapons. The article also seem to neglect Bundy's arrest record and violation of court orders but that's to be expected from the Conservative Tribune, Small government, free markets, and traditional values.



Leaving out facts has been the hallmark of the whining about this case.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Who is taking anything from anyone???     Please tell us that?


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Government stole the land from Native Americans. And now it's gonna steal yours. And don't think that's just far-fetched paranoia either. Eminent Domain is very real. When Big Brother wants yours, he's gonna take it. Such is life in this Police State.
> ...



I've already stated Eminent Domain does not apply to this particular case. But it certainly makes you contemplate how much power to seize lands our Government currently has. All Americans should start educating themselves on Eminent Domain.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Dumb sheeple who keep regurgitating talking points that are proven false one after the other ?????????????

Go back to arguing how this case hinges on eminent domain again. You'll still look just as stupid, just not quite as obnoxious.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



It wasn't federal land because all land not otherwise owned is not automatically federal land.  Only 28% percent of the US landmass is owned by the federal government.  The land in question was open range.  Not owned by anyone but a part of the state of Nevada.

You seem to be the one who doesn't know anything about this issue.    If this were federally owned land the controlling authority would be the Forestry Service.  It isn't.  It's the Bureau of Land Management which can exercise authority over any land like the EPA can.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Never argued that dummy. But you did try to argue how outraged you were over this man receiving some sort of 'Welfare.' Now that was pathetically comical. A Communist Entitlement douche pretending to be outraged over Taxpayer-funded Freebies. Truly priceless.


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



May be - but THIS land is federal land because the federal government bought it from Mexico - it is public land - owned by all the people of the United States - if the welfare cowboy had wanted the land he could have filed a homestead application.

He didn't want to own it - he just wanted his cattle to graze their for free.

I swear - do you guys know ANYTHING about this issue?


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



Your bizarre opinions have no relation to the actual laws of this country.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> So now that we've aired it out on Waco, perhaps someone can tell me why this is anything other than hyperbole and a pathetic attempt to whip up the faithful  in trying to apply any similarities to this rancher.
> 
> As far as I know this rancher is not a cultist (well, nothing more serious than mormonism and if that is a cult it is a benign one), he isn't holding hostages, and he hasn't murdered any agents (yet).



I think we just got off on a tangent.  That happens on this board a lot.


----------



## bendog (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



KAtz is posting total bullshit.  Open range has been federal lands since at least the 1930s, and the BLM has been managing it.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

And then they came for the Cattle Grazers. My oh my America, what the hell happened?


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



now what were you saying?



> Go back to arguing how this case hinges on eminent domain again. You'll still look just as stupid, just not quite as obnoxious.





> Never argued that dummy.



ooops


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Yeah when you start murdering law enforcement officers, it is not going to end well for you.
> 
> [...]


I believe that should depend on why a law enforcement officer is killed.  (Self defense is not "murder.")  

You might be surprised to learn that according to Texas Penal Law (Section 9.31) the Branch Davidians were perfectly justified in killing the rogue ATF agents who improperly raided their premises.  Several of the Davidians were acquitted by a Texas jury for doing just that.  11 in Texas Sect Are Acquitted Of Key Charges - NYTimes.com

It is the increasingly repressive federal law which held them responsible.

Any law enforcement officer who deliberately exceeds his authority in causing or attempting to unnecessarily cause injury to a non-threatening subject deserves to be forcibly resisted -- even if that resistance causes his/her death.  I have absolutely no sympathy for the ATF agents who were killed while unlawfully conducting an armed raid on the peaceful Davidian premises.  It is the supervisory ATF personnel who are responsible for those agents' deaths.  Not the Davidians.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Eminent Domain is a factor and is very disturbing. It shouldn't be ignored and so easily dismissed. I stand by my statement. And remember when you pretended to be angry at this man for supposedly receiving some sort of Welfare? A Communist Entitlement douche angry about Welfare? That was funny.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


Congress gives the executive branch the power to make the regulations.  How about Congress doing a better job of writing laws so bureaucrats don't need to make so many regulations to enforce those laws.  Many laws are no more than general statements of intent leaving federal agencies the job of making so many regulations to enforce the law.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> The better question is why should the Feds own so much land?
> 
> Map Maker



The Feds own so much land because _no one else wanted it_.

Barren desert isn't exactly high-value land.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

All the bloodiest things happen in April. OKC, Columbine, the retarded bombing in Boston, Hilter's bday, Hitler's suicide, Hitler's marriage, full take over of Berlin by sub human Russian dogs, and Waco. There will be blood here. Could be 1 of those things that actually results in a massacre by the U.S. government that the average leftist psycho or low IQ sheep will see and not be able to forget although I doubt it.


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## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



But that what the militia group's action alert said .... how could THAT be wrong?


----------



## nodoginnafight (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



But how does that jib with you claiming you NEVER argued eminent domain is a factor?

LOL - you have stepped in it big time.

What an idiot 

I'm done with THIS guy.

NEXT!


----------



## bendog (Apr 11, 2014)

MikeK said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah when you start murdering law enforcement officers, it is not going to end well for you.
> ...



Next time you get mugged, call a Davidian.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

bendog said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



At least Katz gave up on the "They are slaughtering his cattle and burying them" lie.

I guess actual facts are beyond some people.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> And then they came for the Cattle Grazers. My oh my America, what the hell happened?



No, that is a lie.  They have not come for the cattle grazers.  They have come to remove cattle from public lands.  There is a difference.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



Never argued it applied to this particular case. But you know that. You're just spinning your wheels now because i called you out on your bullshite outrage over this man supposedly receiving some sort of Welfare. Like you Communist Entitlement douches really hate Welfare. Sure ya do. Sure ya do.


----------



## bendog (Apr 11, 2014)

Well, I think it's basically the BLM telling the rancher, and his former neighbors, that they cannot run the same number of cattle their parents and grandparents ran.  And, that's because the fed govts focus has shifted from allowing the land to be used for agrarian purposes to using it in a way to produce energy while harming the environment as little as possible.

And I can hear the call of "fed govt overreach," but it IS and WAS federal land, and the BLM is subject to political pressure that people can call their rerpresentatives to exert.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > And then they came for the Cattle Grazers. My oh my America, what the hell happened?
> ...



We know, it's all for America and the poor children. Sure thing Goose Steppers.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> They should have picked him up in town a couple of hours earlier when there were no kids around.  Of course, they didn't have the cameras then either.  This was really a case of our government going off the deep end.


By mentioning the absence of cameras you have invoked the great unanswered question in the Waco story.  You may or may not be aware that the name given to the planned raid on the Davidian premises was _Operation "Showboat."_  And it took place just three weeks before ATF was scheduled to submit its proposed budget.  

The timing factor is analogous to (and typical of) all the "major drug busts" by DEA, when we see piles of drugs and cash laid out on the six o'clock television news.


----------



## Howey (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> And then they came for the Cattle Grazers. My oh my America, what the hell happened?



First, why are there two threads on this stupid story?

Second, are you and Katz that fucking nuts????

I'm posting in the other thread. You idiots don't deserve a response.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

OMG! I just heard this guy's an evil Cult Leader and a Militiaman!

There, that oughta rile up the Goose Stepping dipshits. When in doubt, just call em evil 'Cult Leaders' or 'Militiamen.' Time to break out the pitchforks.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

Snipers, SWAT teams, dogs and every assorted jackboot possible. Smells like freeDUMB. Someone is going to die and the state of NV won't stop it.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...



I can't understand it for you.  This is not federal land.  It is open range that Bundy claims an implied easement due to the use of the land by his family for 140 continuous years.  This predates the Bureau of Land Management by almost a century.  I'm not going to go into explaining easement law to you or how it differs from homestead.  The first issue in homestead law requires building a home.   

The easement isn't even being questioned.   It's far more complex than that.   It has nothing to do with grazing fees either.  That's just a ruse.  The federal government has made specious claims against every rancher in this area and seized every ranch.  This is the last one before the government can move on to other ranches and farms.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

bendog said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


What does the hypothetical prospect of my being mugged have to do with the issue of a citizen's right to defend himself against an abusive cop?  

I'm curious to know what convoluted mental process brought that comparison about.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

Howey said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > And then they came for the Cattle Grazers. My oh my America, what the hell happened?
> ...



You deserve a response, but forum rules prevent me from saying what that is. I will say that faggot boot lickers like you deserve a boot on your neck and a knee on your head as opposed to this family that is just trying air it's anger amongst sniper teams, and attack dogs. 

Get the hell out this country fag.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Snipers, SWAT teams, dogs and every assorted jackboot possible. Smells like freeDUMB. Someone is going to die and the state of NV won't stop it.



It's all for America and the poor children. We can't just sit back and allow evil Cattle Grazers to roam free and destroy our American way of life. They have to be stopped by any means necessary. We have to do something. The children are depending on us.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Yeah yeah.   I can see that facts don't worry you at all.  You make a claim, it is shown to be bogus, so you accuse me of being a goosestepper.   lol

Interesting debate technique.   Completely devoid of actual facts.  Just you claiming to be a victim.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 11, 2014)

Apparently this all started years ago when they told him he had to limit the number of cattle due to tortoise habitat. This appears to be bullshit because the gov is actually killing some of the tortoise due to over population. And on top of that dirty Harry actually had the boundaries of the habitat changed to benefit a buddy of his on some development deal. And it appears the tortoise have no problem with the cattle when you consider they are having to euthanize the damn things.
  This thing is starting to sound a little hinky as far as the reasons given as to why he had to limit his cattle in the first place.
  But the fact still remains he stopped paying grazing fees. 
 What a mess.
   Makes you wonder what the deal is with the 234 square miles of ranch land the guy owns.
Bad grazing property maybe? Lack of water?


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > The better question is why should the Feds own so much land?
> ...



If it's barren, what are the cattle grazing on?


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Snipers, SWAT teams, dogs and every assorted jackboot possible. Smells like freeDUMB. Someone is going to die and the state of NV won't stop it.



Yeah, they have emphasized the "armed" every time they mentioned federal agents.

But the call for a range war and the threats against the feds and the contractors seems to be just wholesome American fun for some.


----------



## bendog (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



WE HAVE A WINNER!  How DARE the gestapo BLM tell this rancher he can't graze 900 cattle on land he was only permitted for 150 for.  How DARE they?

LOL


----------



## BlindBoo (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Government stole the land from Native Americans. And now it's gonna steal yours. And don't think that's just far-fetched paranoia either. Eminent Domain is very real. When Big Brother wants yours, he's gonna take it. Such is life in this Police State.
> ...



You could call him a Lib-O-Travesty.


----------



## bendog (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Snipers, SWAT teams, dogs and every assorted jackboot possible. Smells like freeDUMB. Someone is going to die and the state of NV won't stop it.
> ...



Actually, it seems at this point, the rancher's son has the feds outgunned.  Personally, I think the kid should be doing time in a freezing Idaho jail with some skinheads, but that's just me.


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## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

Has Big Brother declared him an evil 'Cult Leader' or 'Militiaman' yet? They usually play that card right before they massacre innocent Americans. The Sheeple love eating that shit up. In that instance, they'll support any massacre Big Brother decides to carry out. Another sad result of becoming a Police State.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > The better question is why should the Feds own so much land?
> ...


If you exclude all the land in national parks, monuments, recreation areas, Indian reservations, military bases and testing grounds, watersheds, flood-ways, protected wildness areas, federal highways, dams, and desert and mountain area with no commercial value, there's really not much left of the 650 millions acres owned by the federal government.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> [...]
> 
> When you murder law enforcement officers who are serving a legal warrant, things just might get messy. The blood is clearly on the davidians hands.


Are you quite sure the warrant was legal?  If so, go here:  Assault on Waco

You can learn a lot from this gathering of facts compiled by various members of the establishment Press -- all of whom were isolated from the scene of the stand-off and refused access to the Davidians who constantly asked for access to the Media.  The reporters were willing to accept full responsibility for their safety but were refused permission to talk -- even by telephone -- with the Davidians, which was a clear violation of your First Amendment rights and mine.


----------



## BlindBoo (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> And then they came for the Cattle Grazers. My oh my America, what the hell happened?



Wait is that  in the background.


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 11, 2014)

Does anyone else see the irony here? The Federal Government has for years been trying the disarm(ban "assault weapons") it's citizens for "public safety concerns". Yet they are the first to intimidate citizens with assault weapons in a total disproportionate show of force. So much for public safety concerns...


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Does anyone else see the irony here. The Federal Government has for years been trying the disarm(ban "assault weapons") it's citizens for "public safety concerns". Yet they are the first to intimidate citizens with assault weapons in a total disproportionate show of force. So much for public safety concerns...



They're weapons of war and have no place on the streets...except when police are using them against citizens. Then it's totally cool.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Snipers, SWAT teams, dogs and every assorted jackboot possible. Smells like freeDUMB. Someone is going to die and the state of NV won't stop it.
> ...



Fun has nothing to do with it. I feel some are using this for their own purposes. Militia groups have a reason to be mad but I think that they want is a quasi-Lexington green here to start a Concorde. I empathize. It's only a matter of time before somebody raises arms and ends up getting slaughtered. If the timing is off then it won't work. Either way, the feds won't be able to hide this slaughter.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

Has Bundy produced a deed or a copy of a deed yet that shows or showed that he once held title to the land in question?


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

BlindBoo said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > And then they came for the Cattle Grazers. My oh my America, what the hell happened?
> ...



Sound like the sound of you fornicating with a cat.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...



The feds are removing Bundy's cattle from public land.  They are not after Bundy.

If one of Bundy's militia buddies opens fire on the feds, it will be the range war that Bundy called for.   But, unlike Ruby Ridge and Waco, this blood will not be on the feds hands.


----------



## BlindBoo (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Need a new ?

Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie

Best damn afdb you'll ever buy.

Be that as it may, wtf are they going to do with all the cows?


----------



## bendog (Apr 11, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Does anyone else see the irony here? The Federal Government has for years been trying the disarm(ban "assault weapons") it's citizens for "public safety concerns". Yet they are the first to intimidate citizens with assault weapons in a total disproportionate show of force. So much for public safety concerns...



umm, the rancher threatened the feds with a range war.  That generally leads to the feds bringing out the rifles.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

You people are worthless. I truly believe you government lovers would like to eat popcorn and watch WACO part II start on TV. I'm wondering how long until you'll label the family terrorists .


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...


this didnt happen, stop talking out of your ass.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > tinydancer said:
> ...


----------



## hjmick (Apr 11, 2014)

I've been following this story with great interest, but have refrained from making comments until I learned more...


What I have learned thus far causes me some concern, especially this from 2012:

U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's desert plant | Reuters


Where in relation to the proposed plant is this confrontation and these cattle? Why are we selling land to the Chinese that is valued between $29.6 million and $38.6 million for $4.5 million?


I've been reading this and, though I am no expert, it looks as if the land in question is indeed in the zone planned for this solar plant.


I'm not prone to conspiracy bullshit, but this gives me pause...


----------



## hjmick (Apr 11, 2014)

blindboo said:


> r.c. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > blindboo said:
> ...



bbq?


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> You people are worthless. I truly believe you government lovers would like to eat popcorn and watch WACO part II start on TV. I'm wondering how long until you'll label the family terrorists .



What exactly do you want me to do about it? My congresscritters don't care and if they do anything it will be something to get the rest of us to respect their authority. Drive out there and shoot it out with the Feds in some futile gesture that inevitably ends with me in prison or dead? What are you doing about it besides bitching online?

Federal overreach sucks, but this guy is a loon and picked a lousy hill to die on.


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> The government is at fault here. They didn't say, "pretty please" when they asked him to pay the fees.



The government is at fault here because.......well.......BIG BROTHER!   They are dangerous!  They want to kill citizens and destroy everything!!


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

hjmick said:


> I've been following this story with great interest, but have refrained from making comments until I learned more...
> 
> 
> What I have learned thus far causes me some concern, especially this from 2012:
> ...



What makes you think these have anything to do with this situation?

Your first link describes a piece of land purchased from Clark County for a Chinese Solar plant. Since Clark County doesn't own the land that the Bundys have been grazing on, it seems unlikely to have anything to do with this. Keep in mind that Clark County is 8,000 square miles.

The second link is talking about an area nearly 500 miles away, in northern Nevada. (Dry Lake).


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > The government is at fault here. They didn't say, "pretty please" when they asked him to pay the fees.
> ...



Go stuff another sandwich in your face you fat slob, and shut your mouth.

Yes, the Federal Government has no problem not only killing innocents around the world, but citizens at home as well, see Ruby Ridge and Waco.

Your a prime example of the new American that I hate, a fat, degenerate, snarky baby boomer that parrots the government line. You would have made a good tory. The sooner your generation dies off, the better, maybe then some positive things can happen toward getting this country back on track.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> Has Bundy produced a deed or a copy of a deed yet that shows or showed that he once held title to the land in question?



No. He hasn't even claimed he owns, or has ever owned the land in question.

Only deluded message board posters have made that claim.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Has Bundy produced a deed or a copy of a deed yet that shows or showed that he once held title to the land in question?
> ...



So, what it means is that if conservatives are supporting this guy, they essentially support this guy in his efforts to cheat the American taxpayers out of those grazing fees?


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

Steven_R said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > You people are worthless. I truly believe you government lovers would like to eat popcorn and watch WACO part II start on TV. I'm wondering how long until you'll label the family terrorists .
> ...



Yes, everyone participating in civil disobedience is a loon. Go back to your play station, and be sure to enjoy the event on TV. 

And I never suggested you drive out there you insignificant little turd.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



I don't think they'd put it that way, but that's the reality of the situation.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



I don't think the issue is this guy, the cows, the turtles, or even the existence of the BLM. I think it's just enough people are tired of federal overreach into each and ever aspect of our lives and this guy said enough. He's completely wrong and even his defenders have to admit that he isn't playing by the law regarding grazing, but it's someone standing up to Uncle Sam and that has people excited. 

The government keeps pushing yet always acts surprised when people applaud when someone pushes back.


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



Cheating taxpayers? He is a taxpayer. The Feds just come out of nowhere, claim ownership of land he has had the legal right to graze since 1875, and claims he has to pay them a fee for it. 

And stop trying to push the bs notion that the taxpayer would see a dime of those arbitrary fees, all our taxes go towards is paying this growing unsustainable debt, banker and corporate bailouts, and pointless nation building wars overseas. We the taxpayer are getting screwed only in that we have to pay for the BLM and their private arsenal.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...



What exactly do you want me to do about it then? Be specific.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

LOL, you worried about some rancher "cheating" the taxpayer? LOL, what a load of horseshit. The government you worship cheats the taxpayer on a daily basis.


----------



## DigitalDrifter (Apr 11, 2014)

So without reading this entire thread, my understanding is this rancher hasn't paid his grazing fees in 20 years, is that correct ?


----------



## The T (Apr 11, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...


From what I've hear the land belongs to the State of Nevada...It's time for the Governor to step in and tell the FEDS to get the Hell out.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 11, 2014)

Steven_R said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Steven_R said:
> ...



Why are you making this about you? I don't care what you do. I don't want you to do anything except stop asking me what I want you to do about it.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...



You're the one rambling on about how we're not doing anything except watching Waco 2 on TV. Fine. What should I be doing?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 11, 2014)

I get a kick out of the Right making a martyr out of Koresh. Koresh ran a _commune_. Now, pay close attention...a _commune _is the root word for something that the Right hates most of all. Can you guess what that word is?

I knew you could!


----------



## WinterBorn (Apr 11, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



Oh please, spare the indignation for this crap.

If you had been paying attention, you would have seen me call the feds murderers for their actions at Waco and Ruby Ridge.  But this crap in Nevada is not that.  The feds are not after Bundy.  The feds are not at the Bundy Ranch.

They are removing cattle from public land.  There have been numerous threats of range wars and on the lives of the feds and the contractors moving the cattle.

If you want to come find out how fat I am, I would happy to see you in Atlanta.  

I do not parrot the gov't line.  But I also don't fall for every conspiracy theorist, lunatic fringe claims either.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



You can keep repeating the same bullshit as much as you want, it's not going to magically come true.

The feds didn't "come out of nowhere" to claim ownership. They've always owned the land. The ownership of the land isn't in the slightest bit of dispute - it's land that the Federal Government has owned since they bought it from Mexico - and the BLM has been charging grazing fees since the 40s. Bundy's family themselves didn't seem to have any problems with paying the fees until the mid 90s, when they started to refuse.


----------



## DigitalDrifter (Apr 11, 2014)

> The sooner your generation dies off, the better, maybe then some positive things can happen toward getting this country back on track.



Wow, nice dude.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

The T said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



You've been lied to.

It's owned by the Federal government, and always has been.


----------



## hjmick (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> > I've been following this story with great interest, but have refrained from making comments until I learned more...
> ...




Yeah, I was premature. Apologies. Further research led me here:

Nevada Solar Factory Canceled | Photovoltaic (PV) | ReWire | KCET




Carry on...


----------



## The T (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > Steinlight said:
> ...


NOT what I heard a little while ago from one directly involved. TIME the FEDS got a snootfull of LEAD.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

The T said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



Go shoot some feds, see what happens.

You friend lied to you. This isn't fucking rocket science - it's federal land. No one but your deluded friend is claiming differently.

75% of the state of Nevada is federal land.


----------



## westwall (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.








How many innocent children were killed there?  Twenty seven?  Koresh was a scumbag, of that there is no doubt.  But those who killed those children are no better.


----------



## westwall (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...







It's more like 80%.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

westwall said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



There's as much of an argument to lay those dead children at David Koresh's feet as there is to blame the feds.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

westwall said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



Different sources have given different numbers, I've seen everything from 70% to 80%.


----------



## TheOldSchool (Apr 11, 2014)

Fuck it I hope the guy wins.  Remember dems it's only been a few years since WE were the ones trying to stick it to the man


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> There's as much of an argument to lay those dead children at David Koresh's feet as there is to blame the feds.


Why?


----------



## Mustang (Apr 11, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...


 
If he had the legal right to use the land without paying grazing fees, he wouldn't be in trouble now. Additionally, he would be able to go into court, flash his legal papers which would prove his legal rights, and then walk right out of there at which point he and his lawyer could and would file papers with the appropriate court to sue the Federal Gov't for damages to his operation and his reputation.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

There are a number of state officials from other states joining in that fight.  People saw what happened in California when we lost so much of the agricultural land over the delta smelt scam.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> You people are worthless. I truly believe you government lovers would like to eat popcorn and watch WACO part II start on TV. I'm wondering how long until you'll label the family terrorists .



I'm leaning more towards Big Brother labeling the guy a 'Cult Leader' or 'Militiaman.'  That always riles up the usual suspect Goose Stepper morons. If Big Brother claims that, you can bet they'll be all-in on a massacre. Bunch of silly dupes.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 11, 2014)

As it turns out.  This public land isn't federal land.  It's state land.  The Feds exercised authority under the endangered species act.  

The governor needs to act.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 11, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Funny how Koresch was not accused of pedophile UNTIL the feds needed an excuse for their botched raid on his compound. Funny how the ATF fabricated reasons to raid the compound. Funny how not a single bullet hole was found coming FROM the compound on the cars in the lot out front and in the door from the main building. Funny how when the Congress went to investigate the door vanished.
> 
> What is real funny is how the FBI KNEW the compound was laced with gasoline in every building, wooden buildings, and yet they sent in two tanks with tear gas to set said buildings on fire.
> 
> The deaths at the compound rest solely with the FBI. There was absolutely no reason to storm the buildings, no one had attempted to leave, no one had fired out of the buildings. There was no threat to the community or the FBI.



Yes, the 'Crazed Cult Leader Pedophile' angle was used as a justification after Reno and her Henchmen slaughtered all those children. And as usual, the Sheeple ate that shit up. Look for Big Brother to try and label this man in a similar fashion.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> As it turns out.  This public land isn't federal land.  It's state land.  The Feds exercised authority under the endangered species act.
> 
> The governor needs to act.



Where are you pulling this shit from?


----------



## depotoo (Apr 11, 2014)

nteresting comment from CBSLasVegas-

I don't think that is the issue. I think the issue is that Bundy asked BLM on numerous occassions to identify the proper boundary so that he could fence it or police it himself. The BLM never provided such a boundary and continued with an irrational requirest to keep his cattle off of the undefined land. The courts continued on the same manner. However due process requires proper boundaries to be identified. If proper boundaries aren't clear then BLM has no claim.That is what I believe to be the genesis of the issue. Regardless the BLM show of force is intimidation


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Apr 11, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > As it turns out.  This public land isn't federal land.  It's state land.  The Feds exercised authority under the endangered species act.
> ...



There are two stories, Doc.   The early news articles said the land was owned by the federal government.  The fox news report on television ( which finally aired! ) reports it is state owned land.  Which is it?


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Every single source that I've seen (and I've seen a lot, at this point) has said that it's federal government owned land - what's generally refereed to as "BLM land". BLM doesn't manage state-owned land, and the last 20 years of court battles have been between Bundy and the BLM. 

Do you have a link to this supposed Fox story?


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > You people are worthless. I truly believe you government lovers would like to eat popcorn and watch WACO part II start on TV. I'm wondering how long until you'll label the family terrorists .
> ...



I'm betting the feds claim they find kiddie porn on a computer or two when it's all over.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

paulitician said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how Koresch was not accused of pedophile UNTIL the feds needed an excuse for their botched raid on his compound. Funny how the ATF fabricated reasons to raid the compound. Funny how not a single bullet hole was found coming FROM the compound on the cars in the lot out front and in the door from the main building. Funny how when the Congress went to investigate the door vanished.
> ...



I'm still waiting for someone at the BATF to point out which part of their charter or area of responsibility involves child abuse.


----------



## whitehall (Apr 11, 2014)

The dirty little secret is that the initial warrant that the rogue federal cops based their Branch Dividian raid was never proved. It was alleged that members of the Dividian sect were converting junk WW2 Brit submachine guns to be operational. The charge is ludicrous and it was the same nut case out of control federal cops who rewrote the Constitution during the infamous Ruby Ridge siege when an FBI sniper shot a woman in the head while she was holding an 18 month baby in her arms standing in a doorway.


----------



## Steven_R (Apr 11, 2014)

whitehall said:


> The dirty little secret is that the initial warrant that the rogue federal cops based their Branch Dividian raid was never proved. It was alleged that members of the Dividian sect were converting junk WW2 Brit submachine guns to be operational. The charge is ludicrous and it was the same nut case out of control federal cops who rewrote the Constitution during the infamous Ruby Ridge siege when an FBI sniper shot a woman in the head while she was holding an 18 month baby in her arms standing in a doorway.



Lon Horiuchi had to get it on, man. She was making a move! You know what kind of fire power a toddler has and how much destruction it can create? If Lon didn't put one through her head every cop in a million miles would have died.


----------



## depotoo (Apr 11, 2014)

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...tle-grazing-in-Gold-Butte-area-11-29-2010.pdf

Very interesting letter from 2012 I found regarding what has been going on out therE.  It is a pdf but well worth the read.
corrected link to letter


----------



## depotoo (Apr 11, 2014)

The*Gold Butte National Conservation Area with Wilderness Act*has been introduced by Senator Reid. Please take a moment to*thank Senator Reid*for his support of this Nevada national treasure. It&#8217;s really very easy,*just click this link*and send him your &#8220;digital thank you.&#8221; A simple, &#8220;Thank you for championing the Gold Butte National Conservation Area with Wilderness Act!&#8221; is all it takes.The time for Gold Butte really IS now!

Gold Butte NCA Proposal Introduced! | Friends of Gold Butte


----------



## depotoo (Apr 11, 2014)

Outings | Friends of Gold Butte
End of Season Barbecue and Big Give Party! - Friends of Gold Butte (Mesquite, NV) - Meetup
passing the hat, huh


----------



## depotoo (Apr 11, 2014)

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.ne...eid_praises4FNW-board_Sept2004.pdf?1366521136 Board of Directors

Harry Reid pays high praise to four Friends of Nevada Wilderness board members: Marge Sill, John Hiatt, Hermi Hiatt and Roger Scholl*(click the link to read the PDF document).


----------



## Old Rocks (Apr 11, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



Let's see. Ruby Ridge. August 21, 1992. Clinton was inaugerated 20Jan93.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


How many decades have you been this ignorant?

Have to save the grass for the turtles to eat? WTF are you really this dumb to think cattle grazing is a bad thing for our land?  We should be paying him for grazing and managing our land for us.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 11, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



1. The tortoise has almost nothing to do with why his cows have been evicted.

2. The land in question does not need grazing to "manage" it. Almost nothing grows there to begin with.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > The government is at fault here. They didn't say, "pretty please" when they asked him to pay the fees.
> ...



You got that right:

Social Security, Treasury target taxpayers for their parents? decades-old debts - The Washington Post

Across the nation, hundreds of thousands of taxpayers who are expecting refunds this month are instead getting letters like the one Grice got, informing them that because of a debt they never knew about  often a debt incurred by their parents  the government has confiscated their check.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 11, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> I get a kick out of the Right making a martyr out of Koresh. Koresh ran a _commune_. Now, pay close attention...a _commune _is the root word for something that the Right hates most of all. Can you guess what that word is?
> 
> I knew you could!



A commune is a community where everyone helps everyone else.  What a terrible concept.  How then can the government get their share?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 11, 2014)

Ok, you guys go man the barricades and declare that the revolution is on...again. I don't think that the Right has declared that the federal government should be overthrown by violent means for almost a week, now.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 11, 2014)

Mustang said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > The issue is why the Feds think they have the power to take over lands in any state.
> ...



The freeway is public land too, but I wouldn't want to have a picnic in the center divider.

Bundy is a OnePercenter trying to 'get over' on the American taxpayer to increase his net.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > I get a kick out of the Right making a martyr out of Koresh. Koresh ran a _commune_. Now, pay close attention...a _commune _is the root word for something that the Right hates most of all. Can you guess what that word is?
> ...



...and that, Sheila, is the definition of communism.


----------



## hjmick (Apr 11, 2014)

Well, no matter how you slice it, what's happening in Nevada is ugly and in the end I believe everyone loses...


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 11, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Wow.  You collectivists are a nasty bunch.
> 
> It's insane and corrupt that the *Federal government "owns" 85% of the land in Nevada*.



Thank God for that. The maintenance fees are enormous!


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 11, 2014)

hjmick said:


> Well, no matter how you slice it, what's happening in Nevada is ugly and in the end I believe everyone loses...



It is ugly, but not for the reason you believe.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.


What "murders" did the Davidians commit?  And what was it about the Davidians that was other than peaceful?  Who did they harm?  Did you know that all of their neighbors said they were nice, peaceful people?  Did you know the local sheriff, Jack Harwell, said the same thing?  Did you know that the undercover agent planted in the Davidian residence said they were basically honest, peaceful people?  

You might want to read this: Assault on Waco   Because it's obvious you believe the lies fed to you by government.


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 11, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> I do find it interesting that it has the appearance of a stand off such as Waco and that today is April 9th.


This is because paranoid schizo types always manage to find patterns in noise.


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 11, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> [
> Let's see. Ruby Ridge. August 21, 1992. Clinton was inaugerated 20Jan93.



Silly goose, he meant George Clinton who has in fact been funking so greasy since the early 70s.


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 11, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> What's disturbing is they wanted him to pay for the privilege of grazing his cattle where they'd been grazing for free for years, but when he refused to pay, suddenly it was about the turtles.


Nope. 

He used to pay the rent to use public land for his cattle grazing, then stopped paying it when they put restrictions on how many cattle he could have there.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how Koresch was not accused of pedophile UNTIL the feds needed an excuse for their botched raid on his compound. Funny how the ATF fabricated reasons to raid the compound. Funny how not a single bullet hole was found coming FROM the compound on the cars in the lot out front and in the door from the main building. Funny how when the Congress went to investigate the door vanished.
> ...


Actually there is a very easy answer and it's this:  There were 21 children inside the Davidian residence, some no more than two years old.  The reason why those children weren't coming out is not relevant.  What is relevant is the fact that they were in there and Koresh, who was believed to be insane, had threatened mass suicide if any attempt was made to break in.  So what did the feds do?    

The easy answer is the feds should not have done exactly what Koresh warned them not to do.  Because regardless of how wrong or how bad Koresh was the lives of those innocent children were of paramount importance.  But the feds evidently believed asserting their authority was even more important.  So they did.  And the remaining tragedy is how many Americans blame Koresh, a crazy man, for the deaths of those children -- while ignoring the real, immediate, and wholly avoidable cause.  

It may be metaphorically said that a gun was aimed at those children by a crazy man -- but it was the feds who pulled the trigger.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

nodoginnafight said:


> Funny how people will defend murders and try to re-cast them as victims in an effort to push a political agenda.
> 
> Well ..... actually, it's sad.


What "murders" are you talking about?


----------



## Flopper (Apr 11, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Does anyone else see the irony here? The Federal Government has for years been trying the disarm(ban "assault weapons") it's citizens for "public safety concerns". Yet they are the first to intimidate citizens with assault weapons in a total disproportionate show of force. So much for public safety concerns...


What are the officers suppose to use, cap pistols against automatic weapons?


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## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

bodecea said:


> The leaders at Waco, David Koresh, were responsible of the deaths of the children...they could have let them go or else surrendered at any time.


But you're ignoring the fact that Koresh was obviously insane and his closest followers were clearly irrational fanatics.  The federal agents who decided to ignore the warning of a man they knew to be crazy are presumably rational, competent, and capable of good judgment.  It was the feds who chose to ignore Koresh's mass suicide warning and break in when there was no immediate need to do so.  But you choose to blame the crazy man for the wanton arrogance and reckless judgment of the sane.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 11, 2014)

bendog said:


> ruby ridge was just wrong.  There's no defense for what the FBI did.
> 
> Waco?  shots were fired at law enforceemtn, which led to the siege.  The Feds feared for the kids, maybe wrongly, but in good faith.  But they screwed up in assaulting the place.


You said _". . . shots were fired that led to the siege."_  Do you need to be told that you have it backward?  

The unlawful siege is what led to the shots being fired.  And if you don't wish to believe the siege was unlawful do a little Google research into Texas Penal Law, Section 9.31, and the fact that a Texas jury acquitted the Davidians who shot the ATF agents because they were justifiably defending themselves and their property.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 12, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Then why does he have to pay for it?  What's the point of charging for poor grazing land?


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 12, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Because people want to use it, and someone has to pay to maintain it.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 12, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...



By maintaining do you mean paying feds to sit around, threaten people, and take their money. Or do they perform some other activity with our money that the rancher was not already doing for free?


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 12, 2014)

Well, I'm just glad that I don't live next door to this rancher. It would spoil my day to see his cows eating my rose bushes in my front yard.


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## Politico (Apr 12, 2014)

What is the freaking Koresh obsession? That has nothing to do with this.


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## JoeB131 (Apr 12, 2014)

MikeK said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > The leaders at Waco, David Koresh, were responsible of the deaths of the children...they could have let them go or else surrendered at any time.
> ...



So by your mind, it was safer to leave these kids in the hands of a crazy person with no indoor plumbing, lots of guns, dwindling food supplies and the potential for disease? 

Not really a good call, because Koresh might have done exactly what he did absent a raid. 

The only person to blame for Waco is Koresh. Yeah, the ATF and FBI made a lot of bad calls, because, frankly, the situation was so insane to start with.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 12, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Sure, change the rules and laws to make that work.  

But until then, the man owes money for grazing his cattle on public lands.  And yes, the grass grows back.  Unless it is over-grazed and erosion becomes an issue.


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## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



Again, they could have arrested him in town, a couple of hours earlier and the disaster would never have happened.  But no, they wanted their claim to fame.  So the got all their cameras ready and went in, only they failed to serve the warrant properly and tried to break in a second story window and got shot for their efforts.  If I had a gun and someone was coming in my 2nd story window, I'd have shot them too.  It's called, self defense.


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## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



cattle don't over graze grass, sheep do.


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## WinterBorn (Apr 12, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Cattle certainly can over-graze, especially in a dry desert environment.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 12, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



The hell they don't. My Great-Grandfather and his brother started ranching in Eastern Oregon in the 1860's, and I still have relatives in that area with ranchs. And they will tell you straight up that putting too many cattle on land will lead to severe damage.


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## JimH52 (Apr 12, 2014)

So all the militia men and gun totters that are showing up are defending someone who lost in the court and has now decided to take it into his own hands.  They are aiding a criminal act and could be arrested for that.  There is nothing heroic or patriotic about becoming vigilantes.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 12, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Given that he was grazing 1000 head on land rated for 150, it was overgrazed.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Apr 12, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



   The only reason they said he could only have 150 head was because of the tortoise.
Were talking about 937 sq. miles of land here. Pretty sure you could graze more then a 150 head of cattle.


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## Howey (Apr 12, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> > OK...let me see if I have this right. [MENTION=40845]Jeremiah[/MENTION] should be on meds for stating facts but the nutcases defending this guy, Koresh, McVeigh, et al, are sane?
> ...





JimH52 said:


> So all the militia men and gun totters that are showing up are defending someone who lost in the court and has now decided to take it into his own hands.  They are aiding a criminal act and could be arrested for that.  There is nothing heroic or patriotic about becoming vigilantes.



Yeah...but what else is there for a fat ass fifty year old with stinky beer breath, dirty jeans, and cowboy boots supposed to do?


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## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

It looks like this might turn into the American Spring.  Those who could not get to the ranch have gone to the Las Vegas police department to demand LVPD act to protect Nevada citizens.

Cliven Bundy supporters bring cattle roundup protest to Las Vegas police headquarters | Las Vegas Review-Journal


----------



## JimH52 (Apr 12, 2014)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



And he still hasn't paid his fair due.  He is breaking the law as surely as someone driving 100 miles an hour.


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## JimH52 (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It looks like this might turn into the American Spring.  Those who could not get to the ranch have gone to the Las Vegas police department to demand LVPD act to protect Nevada citizens.
> 
> Cliven Bundy supporters bring cattle roundup protest to Las Vegas police headquarters | Las Vegas Review-Journal



Katz, you are defending someone who lost in the courts, has defied a court order, and is not encouraging vigilantes.  I thought you RWers were all about the law?


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## WinterBorn (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It looks like this might turn into the American Spring.  Those who could not get to the ranch have gone to the Las Vegas police department to demand LVPD act to protect Nevada citizens.
> 
> Cliven Bundy supporters bring cattle roundup protest to Las Vegas police headquarters | Las Vegas Review-Journal



Protect citizens???    What Nevada citizens are in danger?  Perhaps the ones who try to mob a cattle truck transporting the cattle.  But that is their own stupidity.

What Nevada citizens are in danger??


----------



## farmer (Apr 12, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Don't know much about cattle do you. Without proper managment cattle will overgraze .


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## paulitician (Apr 12, 2014)

Not surprising Harry Reid is involved. He's well known for his shady Real Estate deals. Looks likes another Dirty Harry land grab.  

Breaking: (D) Harry Reid/Chinese Gov't Takeover Of Ranch For Solar Farm?

The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid&#8217;s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy&#8217;s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations.

Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled &#8220;Cattle Trespass Impacts&#8221; directly states that Bundy&#8217;s cattle &#8220;impacts&#8221; solar development, more specifically the construction of &#8220;utility-scale solar power generation facilities&#8221; on &#8220;public lands.&#8221;
&#8220;Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle,&#8221; the document states.

Another BLM report entitled &#8220;Regional Mitigation Strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone&#8221; (BLM Technical Note 444) reveals that Bundy&#8217;s land in question is within the &#8220;Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone and surrounding area&#8221; which is part of a broad U.S. Department of Energy program for &#8220;Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States&#8221; on land &#8220;managed&#8221; by BLM.

&#8220;In 2012, the BLM and the U.S. Department of Energy published the Final Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement (PEIS) for Solar Energy Development in Six Southwestern States,&#8221; the report reads. &#8220;The Final Solar Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement assessed the impact of utility-scale solar energy development on public lands in the six southwestern states of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, and Utah.&#8221;

More:
» Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®


----------



## paulitician (Apr 12, 2014)

MikeK said:


> nodoginnafight said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.
> ...



What is a 'Cult Leader' anyway? That accusation along with the 'Child Molester' accusation, was used by Reno and the Government to justify slaughtering those children after the fact. I mean come on, who would defend a 'Child Molester' right? Reno and her thugs screwed up and then lied to cover for it. It's shameful she was never held accountable. The cretin couldn't even muster an apology. 

So look for them to try and label this man a 'Crazed Cult Leader' or 'Militia Boogeyman' any day now. Big Brother knows the usual suspect Sheeple morons eat that shit right up.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 12, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Emphasis on to many.  Was that happening?  If so then you have a case for not defending the guy.  If not then you should be defending your neighbor against this egregious injustice by the tyrannical overlord emperors from DC who need to mind their own beeswax, err turtlewax.

Minor note: use "too" when also can be used as a substitute.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

JimH52 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like this might turn into the American Spring.  Those who could not get to the ranch have gone to the Las Vegas police department to demand LVPD act to protect Nevada citizens.
> ...



Oh please.  Would you have rounded up little black girls to keep them out of the school when it was the law they couldn't go?    Would you have arrested Rosa Parks?  

The federal government lied.   They asserted authority over state land under the ruse to protect the desert tortoise AFTER they had gone in to kill the desert tortoise by the hundreds because they were deemed over populated.   Then all actions against Bundy was kept in federal court where the judges were more easily controlled.   Nothing but kangaroo courts. 

The federal government threatened, intimidated and stole the ranches of more than 50 other ranchers solely in order for Harry Reid to get his pay off from the Chinese.  It isn't going to stop here.   After ranches have been cleansed from the land here, the government will move on, like the voracious locusts they are to do the same thing somewhere else.  Just like the government used the delta smelt in California to drive farmers off their land.  Just like the government is doing in Louisiana to take the land of homeowners to protect a frog that has been extinct for 150 years.  

The federal government is treating American citizens like animals to be herded and controlled.   They consider American citizens the enemy.  You support this.  I do not.   It is time for the people to start fighting back.   If it takes America to be turned into Syria, or Egypt, or Libya, then so be it.  The courts have failed.  The ballot box is an empty gesture.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



And now it's coming out that (D) Sen. Harry Reid is involved. He's always been well known for his corruption and dirty real estate deals. It's another Dirty Harry Land Grab.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 12, 2014)

farmer said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Generations of cattle management by this family and you think they were mismanaging their cattle?


----------



## paulitician (Apr 12, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> farmer said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



"Big Brother always knows best!!" That's the warped mentality you're dealing with. I know you're trying, but you're never gonna get through to loyal Big Brother-Worshippers. Big Brother knows what's best for everyone. And if you say different, you're a 'Crazed America-Hating, Children-Hating Terrorist.' It's incredibly difficult trying to reason with Authority-Worshippers. Just about downright impossible.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 12, 2014)

paulitician said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > farmer said:
> ...



True.  Most authority junkies only respond to strength. Thus, if we want liberty we're probably gonna have to start shooting people to get the point across.  Nutz.


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## paulitician (Apr 12, 2014)

And remember folks, Big Brother always knows what's best for ya. And if you say different, you're a 'Crazy America-Hating, Child-Hating, Puppy-Hating Terrorist.' Enjoy your weekend. See ya.


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## Mustang (Apr 12, 2014)

paulitician said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > farmer said:
> ...


 
You sound like Donald DeFreeze.


----------



## farmer (Apr 12, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> farmer said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



I never said they were mismanaging their cattle,I was responding to Againsheilas post.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 12, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...


 
Look here, Marion, it sounds like you and Paulitician are both vying for the title of Field Marshal, as in General Field Marshal Cinque. I can refer to one of you as General and the other as Field Marshal, but keep in mind that in any authoritarian structure where power is rarely if ever successfully shared, you may find yourself on the run like Snowball found out in Orwell's book, "Animal Farm."


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## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

It's over.   There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night.   Vehicles were streaming in all day.  The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.

The Director of Land Management declared the operation too dangerous to continue and it is OVER.  Bundy won.  Americans standing together won.


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## R.C. Christian (Apr 12, 2014)

And now they have seized his property. This will get bad. All you mother fuckers who support the slaughter on this site will be remembered and hated.


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## R.C. Christian (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's over.   There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night.   Vehicles were streaming in all day.  The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> 
> The Director of Land Management declared the operation too dangerous to continue and it is OVER.  Bundy won.  Americans standing together won.



No, no way. They won't let this pass but if it does the solution to future problems is relatively straight forward although it will be worse the next time.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> And now they have seized his property. This will get bad. All you mother fuckers who support the slaughter on this site will be remembered and hated.



The federal agents did kill off half the Bundy herd.   

Americans will not forget what happened.   Americans standing together won the day, with significant casualties.  But we won.  There are many abuses by this regime that Americans won't forget.  Payday will come in November and again in 2016.  

I'm sure there will be a link shortly.  It was just breaking news on the television.   The Federal government considered the operation too dangerous to continue.  The combined force of Americans put the government in their place.   This time.  We have a long way to go before this regime can be totally replaced but it will happen.


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## Plasmaball (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's over.   There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night.   Vehicles were streaming in all day.  The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> 
> The Director of Land Management declared the operation too dangerous to continue and it is OVER.  Bundy won.  Americans standing together won.



how sad you people are....its pathetic it came to this because he wouldnt pay fees.


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## Mustang (Apr 12, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> And now they have seized his property. This will get bad. All you mother fuckers who support the slaughter on this site will be remembered and hated.


 
This is akin to defending a man who refuses to make his car payments and then the lunatic fringe reacts as if the gov't is stepping over the line just because the sheriff shows up to help the repo man retake possession of the car because it's not yet paid for and the man has seen fit to lock up the car in his garage to prevent the loan company or the dealership from taking possession of their own property.

Certain factions of the right have now become the official vanguard for tax cheats, lawbreakers, and people who thumb their noses at court orders. Of course none of this pseudo outrage would likely be taking place at all if Romney had been elected. Then we'd be witnessing a newfound love for law and order, even if what was happening was in violation of the law.

David Byrne was right.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 12, 2014)

paulitician said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > nodoginnafight said:
> ...


Compounding the outrage is the fact that when those child-molestation accusations were made, by a disgruntled former Davidian who became jealous of his wife's attraction to Koresh, *both the Texas State Department of Social Services and the local sheriff, Jack Harwell, thoroughly investigated and determined the charges were completely unfounded.* David Koresh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those charges were based on the fact that Koresh made a thirteen year-old Davidian girl his "spiritual wife," which has religious meaning but no sexual connotation.  Another teen-age girl, Kiri Jewel, accused Koresh of molesting her but later recounted, admitting she had made the charges to spite Koresh when he rejected her romantic overtures.

But even if the molestation charges were true, since when is that within the purview of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?  These false charges were resurrected by BATF when it became necessary for them to come up with a good reason for conducting their unjustifiable publicity-stunt raid.  

The lingering tragedy of this shameful event is how effective the lies used to justify government's malicious and criminally incompetent actions have been.  Some of the comments in this thread makes it clear that a significant percentage of Americans want to believe government's version of the event when the truth is readily available to them and the keystone government lie is staring them in the face.  That being the question of *why ATF didn't simply arrest Koresh on one of his daily visits to the town's Post Office?*


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## MikeK (Apr 12, 2014)

Politico said:


> What is the freaking Koresh obsession? That has nothing to do with this.


While the circumstances are quite different, on the surface it invokes a very ugly and infuriating memory in the minds of those who remember what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco.  Those events are not easy to forget.  

I don't know enough about this rancher situation to comment intelligently about it.  But the superficial circumstances involve the massing of federal power against a citizen barricaded in his home in defense of what the citizen believes to be a Constitutional principle.  

In the examples of Ruby Ridge and Waco, government was clearly wrong.  But at this time I don't know enough about this rancher situation to offer an opinion.


But as of now, which is 2:35 PM on Sat. 4/12, there appears to be a media blackout of this event.  None of the news channels are saying a word about it.


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## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



That's true.  Too many cattle does lead to that.  I meant, in general, when they are raised right.


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## 9thIDdoc (Apr 12, 2014)

Well...it's looking now like the Fed. gov has had a sudden and unexpected attack of sanity. Maybe they aren't as dumb as I thought. Maybe.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's over.   There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night.   Vehicles were streaming in all day.  The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> 
> The Director of Land Management declared the operation too dangerous to continue and it is OVER.  Bundy won.  Americans standing together won.





Anarchists unite! Then, take over the government....


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## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

Who says we don't live in a police state?

[Watch] Not Just Nevada, BLM Land-Grabbing 90,000 Deeded Acres in Texas Too |

Tommy Henderson explains the absurdity of the BLM claims. He asks, &#8220;How can BLM come in and say &#8216;Hey, this isn&#8217;t yours&#8217; even though it was patented from the state, you&#8217;ve always paid taxes on it, our family&#8217;s paid taxes for over a hundred years on this place. We&#8217;ve got a deed to it, but yet they walked in and said it wasn&#8217;t ours.&#8221;


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## Howey (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's over.   There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night.   Vehicles were streaming in all day.  The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> 
> The Director of Land Management declared the operation too dangerous to continue and it is OVER.  Bundy won.  Americans standing together won.




Why are you making shit up? I posted a newspaper link earlier saying a whopping three militia members showed up. 

The people you're talking about are his family, a few friends who support him, and nutcases who think they'll bring down the government before mommy gets home from work.


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## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

Howey said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > It's over.   There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night.   Vehicles were streaming in all day.  The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> ...



Nevada Cattle Rancher Wins 'Range War' With Federal Government - ABC News


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 12, 2014)

As of right now, we, the people are out one million dollars in fees that he owes. Thousands of other ranchers who have paid their fees probably feel no need to do so anymore. 

So, let's talk about the "Obama deficit".


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## kiwiman127 (Apr 12, 2014)

This whole thing is amazing.  Those who bash the middle class the working poor (as lazy freeloaders) and the 47% are defending a huge freeloader!  
At first I thought it was a joke but after reading this thread,,,it's true!


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## R.C. Christian (Apr 12, 2014)

Mustang said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > And now they have seized his property. This will get bad. All you mother fuckers who support the slaughter on this site will be remembered and hated.
> ...



Repo men don't bring snipers genius. 

And you filthy Mormon love of that scumbag Romney is noted and even more laughable.


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 12, 2014)




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## Vandalshandle (Apr 12, 2014)

The government is going to slap a lien on his ranch, which must be paid before his kids can take title on his death. Of course, there will also be penalties so all he is really doing is passing his debt on to his kids.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

Had the government been interested in doing that they would have done so.  A lien on the ranch would not help Harry Reid turn the ranch over to the Chinese and promised.


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## MikeK (Apr 12, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQb0qJLhea8&feature=em-subs_digest


Steinlight,

Very informative narrative.  Thanks!

I'm glad the BLM has backed off.  I'm sure the reason for it is Obama has enough sense to avoid making the same mistakes made by Bush and Clinton at Ruby Ridge and Waco.  

I honestly don't know how I feel about this rancher's refusal to pay what amounts to the same tax all of the neighboring ranchers are paying.  But I can't help being pleased to learn that a David has prevailed over what has become a menacing Goliath.  That aspect dominates my thoughts and feelings about the situation.  

Maybe I would feel differently were it not for the Waco and Ruby Ridge atrocities, but those events have clearly prejudiced me against federal authority and in favor of resistance to it.  A situation which probably is best described as a rebellious frame of mind.


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## Howey (Apr 12, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...





> "Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," BLM Director Neil Kornze said.



I wouldn't call it a "win".


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## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

Howey said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Howey said:
> ...



Well, it's not a loss.  Of course some people will never admit they were wrong. IE "why are you making shit up?"


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 12, 2014)

Yet another deadbeat 1 percenter triumphs. And the shortfall will be made up by the rest of us.


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## tinydancer (Apr 12, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > It's over.   There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night.   Vehicles were streaming in all day.  The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> ...



When was the last time you saw the feds pull a collection agency stunt with 200 armed men and 9 helicopters?


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 12, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Yet another deadbeat 1 percenter triumphs. And the shortfall will be made up by the rest of us.



Check this pussy out ^^. I'm on his no show list because he can't handle it.


----------



## Godboy (Apr 12, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Yet another deadbeat 1 percenter triumphs. And the shortfall will be made up by the rest of us.
> ...



Only a douchy faggot would use the term "one percenter".


----------



## namvet (Apr 12, 2014)

agents pull back

The Bureau of Land Management announced Saturday that it has ended its mission to remove illegal cattle from a rural Nevada range after a tense week-long standoff with a rancher and militia supporters, citing a "serious concern" for the safety of employees and the public.

link


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 12, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



600,000 acres. His cattle were grazing on 600,000 acres. 

*Although federal authorities claim that Bundy has been illegally allowing his cattle to graze on 600,000 acres of federal property for 20 years, the rancher says the land belongs to the state, and it's been used by his family to graze cattle since the late 1800s.
*

Rancher Prevails in 'New Ruby Ridge' Battle as Feds Back Down


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Yet another deadbeat 1 percenter triumphs. And the shortfall will be made up by the rest of us.



Oh, bulcrap. You got no problem with the $billions given to bail out the banks, but you have a problem with a man grazing his cattle on land that his family has been using for generations?  Apparently, you want to see beef prices rise.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

Just because there was a report that mentioned three militia members does not mean that is all there was.  It only means that three was mentioned in that one report


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

There is no shortfall.  The government doesn't spend any money maintaining that land.  Bundy should charge the government for fire suppression.  His cows eat the brush so the government doesn't have to pay for goats to come in and do it.


----------



## MisterBeale (Apr 12, 2014)

*5 Things The Bundy Ranch Teaches Us *

*5. There is no such thing as public property*



> How many times are we going to have to go over the tragedy of the commons, before people understand that there is no such thing? What people mistake for commons, or public property, is property owned by organized crime rings known as governments. Like any other business, they might let you use the property, they might charge a fee for the property, or they might tell you to get lost.
> 
> Anybody who ever thought a government was doing a public good by seizing land is a fool. When the BLM came in and said they were protecting turtles, it might as well have been Exxon coming in to drill for oil. Theres no such thing as public property.



*4.The US Constitution did not, does not, and will not matter*



> No government was ever limited by a constitution, least of all the United States. Hell, the United States isnt even limited by its own borders. So if a military presence shows up at your front door, and you look to ancient documents to chase them away, Im sorry but its really getting to a point where I have trouble feeling sorry for you. You might as well be praying for all the good it is going to do anybody.



*3. Every tax and traffic ticket ever written was backed up by the same threat of force*



> All you folks out there who say government isnt violent, take a close look. If I had a dime for every time somebody told me they dont force you, they just take you to court Id be rich by now. When a government makes a decision, guns follow. The paperwork, fake attempts to negotiate, court proceedings, these exist only for the purpose convincing the dissenter to surrender, or making the inevitable violence that follows his failure to do so look legitimate.



*2. The amount of force is not the issue*



> Anybody who accepts that the federal government has a right to force people to do things, but objects to the weaponry they use in the process, is making the same argument as gun control advocates. Anybody who has a right to use force, has the right to use as much force as they believe is necessary to accomplish the goal of said force.



*1. Since the aforementioned issues are not understood, nothing good will come of this*



> Remove from your minds any notion that the Oath Keepers will restore the republic today, tomorrow, or the day after. No militia will come to the rescue of Cliven Bundy. The Sheriff will not assert some magical authority to expel a more heavily armed group of criminals from the territory. Bundy will not wait out federal authorities. Courts will not see the error of their ways and leave Mr. Bundy alone.
> 
> In the end, Cliven Bundy will be subjugated or murdered. Just like everyone else who has dared to defy a tyrant. The same thing will happen to everyone who attempts a similar course of action until one of two things happen;
> 
> ...



http://www.christophercantwell.com/2014/04/10/5-things-bundy-ranch-teaches-us/


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 12, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Yet another deadbeat 1 percenter triumphs. And the shortfall will be made up by the rest of us.
> ...



those other ranchers i bet pay the fees he stopped paying. 
This wont affect our beef prices.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 12, 2014)

I don't think anybody really "won" here.  This was more of a draw than anything else and I imagine they'll be back at some point if Bundy doesn't settle up and/or start obeying the law.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 12, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



they could graze there in so long they paid the fees. Which he stopped doing back in 93 because he all of a sudden decided federal laws dont pertain to him anymore.
But youve already been explained this numerous times.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 12, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Vandalshandle said:
> ...



There are no other ranchers.  Bundy is the only one left in Clark County.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 12, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



then they should napalm his cows


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Apr 12, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Howey said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



What is a loss is the partisan rights attempt to contrive this into a controversy when it clearly is not. 

This is not about a peaceful rancher at odds with a cruel and capricious Federal government seeking to take his land and steal his cattle, by force of arms if necessary. 

It has indeed gotten to the point where most conservatives dont even know what the truth is anymore.


----------



## jillian (Apr 12, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Howey said:
> ...



i know.. some idiot gubmint hater doesn't pay his grazing fees and the right is all a twitter


----------



## Mustang (Apr 12, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...


 
Sherrff's deputies carry firearms prominently displayed as sidearmms on a belt around their waists. Often, they'll stand there with a hand on their pistols for effect. The implication is clear.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 12, 2014)

jillian said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


 
I wonder if this will be the fuse that causes Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin to lead the armed uprising against the Obama Administration.  You've heard of the beer hall putsch? This might end up being called the Oxycodon ocular ear implant hoedown.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

One thing the government should have learned is that Americans are fed up with the government,  militarized and becoming weaponized.   The nation is divided.   Did you take a good look?   This is the future.


----------



## Howey (Apr 12, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Howey said:
> ...





jillian said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...




For some reason this country has seen the fringe right become far more vocal and agitated in the past five and a half years. It's like they're scared our country is finally entering the 21st century and their type of bigotry, racism and homophobia is falling away into the annals of shame.

Think of this as their last hurrah. Or death throes. Soon even their insane ramblings and protestations on Internet forums,  their last bastion of speech, will fade away.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> It's over. There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night. Vehicles were streaming in all day. The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> 
> The Director of Land Management declared the operation too dangerous to continue and it is OVER. Bundy won. Americans standing together won.


 
Somebody ought to check the local water for high lead content.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 12, 2014)

Cry us a river. Better yet don't, we don't want to become infected.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 12, 2014)

Mustang said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > It's over. There were a couple of thousand people at that Ranch last night. Vehicles were streaming in all day. The BLM was totally outnumbered and probably, if truth be known, outgunned.
> ...



Another Colorado hipster speak under the influence of his bong.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 12, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


 
Boy, when it comes to being right, you guys have got the batting average of an American League pitcher.

In fact, not only do I not smoke pot or do drugs of any kind, I don't even drink alcohol.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 12, 2014)

The federal government should never have charged grazing fees to begin with.  It wasn't federal property and the protection of the tortoise was a lie from the beginning.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 12, 2014)

Mustang said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



Whatever you say comrade.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 12, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...



You really don't like steak, do you?


----------



## CaféAuLait (Apr 12, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The federal government should never have charged grazing fees to begin with.  It wasn't federal property and the protection of the tortoise was a lie from the beginning.



It makes no sense, BLM sells fracking and drilling leases in Nevada but claim this rancher needs to pay for environmental reasons? 

*BLM sells 29 oil, gas leases in northeast Nevada*

BLM sells 29 oil, gas leases in northeast Nevada - Shale Reporter : Industry

Drillers in Utah Have a Friend in a U.S. Land Agency ( yes, I know it says Utah, but guess what is near those leases, the desert  turtle) 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/u...nagements-divided-mission.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.naturalnews.com/files/Petroleum-Data-Clark-County-Nevada.pdf


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 12, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8925203 said:
			
		

> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The federal government should never have charged grazing fees to begin with.  It wasn't federal property and the protection of the tortoise was a lie from the beginning.
> ...



follow the $$$$$$$$$


----------



## AntiParty (Apr 13, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



The government is ran by corporations. And Corporations hate challenge. Big industry has been buying off politicians for years. If you are just now learning that.......you are pathetic. 

Explain more how, "Clinton killed the people in Waco". Did he kill the people in Waco while getting a BJ or are you completely mislead about the world of Corporations buying politicians?


----------



## AntiParty (Apr 13, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> CaféAuLait;8925203 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll agree with that, but haven't seen that in YOUR posts


----------



## paulitician (Apr 13, 2014)

Looks like Big Brother is backing down for now. But it's too early to celebrate. Big Brother is vindictive and evil. They'll probably label him a 'Crazed Cult Leader' or 'Militiaman' and raid his home next. Maybe even burn it down and kill him and his family. That wouldn't surprise me. This is not over.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 13, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Looks like Big Brother is backing down for now. But it's too early to celebrate. Big Brother is vindictive and evil. They'll probably label him a 'Crazed Cult Leader' or 'Militiaman' and raid his home next. Maybe even burn it down and kill him and his family. That wouldn't surprise me. This is not over.



That is likely to happen.  As we have seen, the government is not above assassination of Americans when it suits their purpose.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 13, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like Big Brother is backing down for now. But it's too early to celebrate. Big Brother is vindictive and evil. They'll probably label him a 'Crazed Cult Leader' or 'Militiaman' and raid his home next. Maybe even burn it down and kill him and his family. That wouldn't surprise me. This is not over.
> ...



they tried the character assassination and that failed 

now they will try and ruin him financially

they will probably establish rules that banks can not get FDIC insurance 

if they lend to ranchers 

as the government did in North Dakota to the banks that lent to 

owners of land that allowed drilling on private lands


----------



## paulitician (Apr 13, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like Big Brother is backing down for now. But it's too early to celebrate. Big Brother is vindictive and evil. They'll probably label him a 'Crazed Cult Leader' or 'Militiaman' and raid his home next. Maybe even burn it down and kill him and his family. That wouldn't surprise me. This is not over.
> ...



I said right from the start that Big Brother would rather kill fellow Americans than accept losing. So this is far from over. They'll dig & dig and harass this man and his family daily. Like i said, Big Brother is vindictive and evil. This is far from over.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 13, 2014)

God bless Sheriff Douglas C. Gillespie. What a brave S.O.B. He stood up for his People. A real hero.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 13, 2014)

Meanwhile, in New Mexico

FEDS SEIZE FAMILY'S RANCH-Property owners fight government 'land grab'!!! | Americas Freedom Fighters


----------



## paulitician (Apr 13, 2014)

I really am happy this man and his family have survived this travesty. But i fear it's only temporary. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. He will continue harassing this man and his family. Keep in mind, we're living in an era where our President routinely arrests Journalists and Filmmakers. Sadly, i don't think it's gonna end well for this man. I'll be praying for him.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 13, 2014)

paulitician said:


> I really am happy this man and his family have survived this travesty. But i fear it's only temporary. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. He will continue harassing this man and his family. Keep in mind, we're living in an era where our President routinely arrests Journalists and Filmmakers. Sadly, i don't think it's gonna end well for this man. I'll be praying for him.




Next up:  an IRS audit and the EPA declaring a puddle "protected wetlands".  Oh, and the ATF will surely pay a visit, as well.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 13, 2014)

boedicca said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > I really am happy this man and his family have survived this travesty. But i fear it's only temporary. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. He will continue harassing this man and his family. Keep in mind, we're living in an era where our President routinely arrests Journalists and Filmmakers. Sadly, i don't think it's gonna end well for this man. I'll be praying for him.
> ...



Just look at the era we're living in. Our President has Journalists and Filmmakers arrested routinely. Big Brother isn't going away. The harassment will resume as soon as the Media goes away. Him and his family will need our prayers.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 13, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Explain more how, "Clinton killed the people in Waco". Did he kill the people in Waco while getting a BJ or are you completely mislead about the world of Corporations buying politicians?


Bill Clinton was ultimately responsible for the Waco massacre because decisions of that magnitude are not made at ground level or anywhere in between.  Once it became a newsworthy event the chain of command extended from the FBI Director to the Attorney General and, once it got really hot, to the President.  My loathing for Bill Clinton derives mainly from the fact that he turned his back on the children who burned to death at Waco.  

In his book, _A Place Called Waco,_ Davidian survivor David Thibodeau, makes it clear that Koresh repeatedly agreed to surrender if the FBI would first allow access to the media (all the reporters present were eagerly willing to enter the residence) but their request was repeatedly denied.  In clear violation of the First Amendment (freedom of the Press) all of the reporters at Waco were sequestered at a location about a mile away from the scene and one reporter who attempted to bypass at 3AM was arrested.  

Thibodeau goes on to say that right up to the end Koresh remained confident that the American People would not allow the oppressive siege to continue and that it was a matter of time before President Clinton would intervene and allow access to the media.  

Dave Guerin, the Davidians' lawyer, who was granted access to the residence once during the first week of the siege, said the same thing.  He also tried to reach Janet Reno who refused to take his calls. 

Again, Koresh knew, as was affirmed by a Texas state court, that ATF's raid on the Davidian residence was unlawful.  He wanted to present the facts to the public before being sequestered in some remote prison.  But, as it was, the only information the public received about this siege was filtered through the FBI -- because the Press had no access to the Davidians or to the scene of the siege.  The circumstances were exactly as outlined by George Orwell in _Nineteen Eighty Four._  All the news came from _Big Brother._


----------



## MikeK (Apr 13, 2014)

paulitician said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...


I tune to news channels for most of the day -- MSNBC, CNN, and FOX.  I wish to say I haven't seen or heard a single word related to this Nevada event from any of them.  If there has been any mention of it I'm sure it was a ten second slice tucked in between the endless speculations about the Flight 370 fiasco.  (Which is on CNN right now!)


----------



## namvet (Apr 13, 2014)

they turned tail and ran because dirty Harry Reid and his Chinese bud were caught brokering a land grab scam


----------



## bodecea (Apr 13, 2014)

Must be cool to use our land for decades and not have to pay for it.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 13, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Must be cool to use our land for decades and not have to pay for it.



It's not your land moron.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm thinking about running some cattle in Grand Canyon National Park. The South Rim is pretty much not used for anything.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 13, 2014)

The Grand Canyon is federal property.   Gold Butte is state property.  You can tell because when obama got in a snit he made it a crime to look at the Grand Canyon.


----------



## Kinte (Apr 13, 2014)

Oh Jesus why can't us blacks get the same preferential treatment with free land and military security watching out so the Mexicans don't steal their cattle?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 13, 2014)

I lived in Vegas for 10 years, but I wasn't a 1 percenter, so they made me buy the land where I  built my house.....


----------



## JimH52 (Apr 13, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Must be cool to use our land for decades and not have to pay for it.



IT is okay for the RW loons on here.  They are all for Corporate thieves and multimillion dollar ranchers who don't pay land fees for decade.  But its those pesky single mothers who get the monthly welfare checks that this country should prosecute.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2014)

MikeK said:


> AntiParty said:
> 
> 
> > Explain more how, "Clinton killed the people in Waco". Did he kill the people in Waco while getting a BJ or are you completely mislead about the world of Corporations buying politicians?
> ...



David Koresh was a child-molesting freak who thought he was Jesus. 

Please stop treating him like he was a rational person who could have been reasoned with. 

He knew the only way he was leaving that compound was in handcuffs or a body bag, and he chose the body bag, and to take all his followers with him.


----------



## Meister (Apr 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > AntiParty said:
> ...



You're kind of moving the facts around and once that happens, it's not the truth any longer.


----------



## JoeB131 (Apr 13, 2014)

Meister said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Guy, when I was right wing, I used to argue the Waco Party line better than most of you. 

But the reality is, Koresh was really out of his mind nuts.  

Three investigations, including one led by Republican Senator John Danforth, all reached the same conclusion.  

That when presented with arrest, Koresh chose mass suicide for himself and his followers.


----------



## Meister (Apr 13, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You do not know what was in Koresh's mind.  Yes, he was really out there and I'm not defending him but, having said that, nobody knows for sure how the fire started that killed the cult. Of course, the feds will say that the cultists started the fire, but.....
 What is known is that it started after the the siege started.
There was no rush to flush them out, they weren't going anywhere, there was plenty of time to defuse the situation....IMO.


----------



## tyroneweaver (Apr 13, 2014)

Kinte said:


> Oh Jesus why can't us blacks get the same preferential treatment with free land and military security watching out so the Mexicans don't steal their cattle?



black??? And here all the time I thought you were Mormon


----------



## tyroneweaver (Apr 13, 2014)

bodecea said:


> Must be cool to use our land for decades and not have to pay for it.




well there is a hundred year old squatter law


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 13, 2014)

MUST SEE: Citizens Rise Up ? The Real Nevada Story the Media Won?t Show You (Video) | Top Right News


----------



## TemplarKormac (Apr 13, 2014)




----------



## 9thIDdoc (Apr 13, 2014)

JimH52 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Must be cool to use our land for decades and not have to pay for it.
> ...



One group produces steaks while the other produces a new crop of gang-bangers which should we encourage?
I thought the LWers got all warm and fuzzy about the whole protester/ 1st amendment thing.


----------



## Flopper (Apr 13, 2014)

BLM backs down.

A tense, weeklong showdown appeared to end Saturday between the federal government and supporters of a Nevada cattle rancher battling the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) over grazing rights on federal land.

The BLM stopped rounding up rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle and returned about 300 head of cattle to the open range to avoid the potential for violence, according to the BLM and CNN affiliate KSNV.

The Old West-style controversy -- centering on a family that has been ranching in Nevada since the 1800s -- drew armed militia groups from across the country to the cattleman's side this week, especially after a YouTube video captured a tussle teetering on violence between rangers and protesters.

The BLM said Bundy owed about $1 million in back fees because his cattle grazed on federal land.
On Saturday, hundreds of protesters gathered outside the BLM's cattle gate, according to CNN affiliate KLAS. Some of them were armed.

"Due to escalating tensions, the cattle have been released from the enclosures in order to avoid violence and help restore order," the BLM said in a prepared statement.
Also Saturday, supporters of Bundy, some of them armed, forced a temporary shutdown of northbound lanes of Interstate 15 near his ranch, the Nevada Highway Patrol said.

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," said BLM director Neil Kornze.

Feds end roundup, release cattle after tense Nevada showdown - CNN.com


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 13, 2014)

Flopper said:


> BLM backs down.
> 
> A tense, weeklong showdown appeared to end Saturday between the federal government and supporters of a Nevada cattle rancher battling the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) over grazing rights on federal land.
> 
> ...



All this because a OnePercenter wants to get over on taxpayers.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Apr 13, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The Grand Canyon is federal property.   Gold Butte is state property.  You can tell because when obama got in a snit he made it a crime to look at the Grand Canyon.



Gold Butte is federal land.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 13, 2014)

Anyone who works is a one percenter.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 13, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> MUST SEE: Citizens Rise Up ? The Real Nevada Story the Media Won?t Show You (Video) | Top Right News



that is an amazing video


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 13, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


>



Okay that was the best I've seen in like forever.   Double thanks for that one.  I literally cannot stop laughing.


----------



## holston (Apr 13, 2014)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831



> U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's desert plant
> 
> By Marcus Stern
> 
> WASHINGTON Fri Aug 31, *2012*





> He and his oldest son, Rory, are both involved in an effort by a Chinese energy giant, ENN Energy Group, to build a $5 billion solar farm and panel manufacturing plant in the southern Nevada desert.
> 
> Reid has been one of the project's most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada. His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission


.



> The Langfang, China-based ENN Energy Group hopes to build what would be the largest solar energy complex in America. The site chosen with Rory Reid's guidance is in tiny Laughlin, Nevada, a gambling town of 7,300 along the Colorado River, 90 miles south of Las Vegas.





> In December, Clark County commissioners voted unanimously to sell up to 9,000 acres of public land to the subsidiary at pennies on the dollar.
> 
> The deal spurred local controversy. Separate appraisals valued the land at $29.6 million and $38.6 million. The commission agreed to sell it to ENN for $4.5 million



http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/031414-693395-is-obama-doj-protecting-harry-reid-from-a-federal-corruption-investigation.htm



> Corruption: While the Justice Department was busy compiling a case against Obama critic Dinesh D'Souza for minor campaign-law violations, it was blocking a more troubling probe involving the Senate's top Democrat.






> In 2012, Reuters reported that Reid had been doing yeoman's work on behalf of a Chinese energy firm, ENN, that wanted to build a $5 billion solar panel plant in Nevada. Turns out Reid's son Rory worked at the law firm representing that very same company.
> 
> The Washington Post reported that in 2004 and 2005, Reid earmarked $21.5 million for a bridge linking a gambling resort town in Nevada with a city in Arizona where Reid just happened to own 160 acres of undeveloped land.
> 
> Reid also reportedly funneled some $47 million in earmarks that directly benefited organizations his son Key was affiliated with. And last year, a close Reid friend, Harvey Whittemore, was found guilty of directing more than $130,000 worth of illegal funds into Reid's re-election war chest.





> In the 2012 presidential campaign, he willingly debased himself by claiming, without a shred of evidence, that Mitt Romney hadn't paid income taxes for years.
> 
> This year, he debased the entire institution of the Senate by blowing up the filibuster rules so Obama could get his extremist pals on the federal bench and in key administration posts.
> 
> ...


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 13, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Anyone who works is a one percenter.



Depends on ones income.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 14, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > MUST SEE: Citizens Rise Up ? The Real Nevada Story the Media Won?t Show You (Video) | Top Right News
> ...





Katzndogz said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...





holston said:


> U.S. Senator Reid, son combine for China firm's desert plant | Reuters


*
The low thinkers are posting again! ​*


----------



## TemplarKormac (Apr 14, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



You're posting in big bold letters again. Go away.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 14, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > jon_berzerk said:
> ...



OK. The low thinkers are posting again!  Happy Now?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 14, 2014)

Now that we have all decided that the government brown shirts murdered the Koresh cultists in Waco, maybe we should dissect the Jim Jones massacre. I am interested in the spin that the Right will put on this. His message to his followers, by the way, was almost identical to Koresh's.

Get, ready! Take your Dramamine, and GO!


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 14, 2014)

That was an amazing video.  After so many years of being ashamed of this country this was a reason to have a moments pride in the heritage of America.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 14, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> That was an amazing video.  After so many years of being ashamed of this country this was a reason to have a moments pride in the heritage of America.



If you wanted to see the rich screwing the taxpayers you should have paid attention in 2008!


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 14, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Now that we have all decided that the government brown shirts murdered the Koresh cultists in Waco, maybe we should dissect the Jim Jones massacre. I am interested in the spin that the Right will put on this. His message to his followers, by the way, was almost identical to Koresh's.
> 
> Get, ready! Take your Dramamine, and GO!



Difference is Jim Jones actually murdered his followers, they weren't killed by the feds.


----------



## MisterBeale (Apr 14, 2014)




----------



## TemplarKormac (Apr 14, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



Nope. I'm allergic to happiness. And to you. Stop trolling.


----------



## bodecea (Apr 14, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Must be cool to use our land for decades and not have to pay for it.
> ...



Oh...who's is it then?


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 14, 2014)

bodecea said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



It's more the rancher's land than yours, ya dufus.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 14, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Now that we have all decided that the government brown shirts murdered the Koresh cultists in Waco, maybe we should dissect the Jim Jones massacre. I am interested in the spin that the Right will put on this. His message to his followers, by the way, was almost identical to Koresh's.
> ...





Nor were they SAVED by the feds....


----------



## paulitician (Apr 14, 2014)

'This Land is your land, This land is my land.' What happened to that? What happened to the People who stopped believing in that? What terrible trauma did they suffer? What happened to our Country?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 14, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> Anyone who works is a one percenter.



Which leaves onepercenter out...

He is a SSI welfare rat, fer sher...


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 14, 2014)

paulitician said:


> 'This Land is your land, This land is my land.' What happened to that? What happened to the People who stopped believing in that? What terrible trauma did they suffer? What happened to our Country?




I love how the Right chooses it's heros!

"Woodrow Wilson *"Woody" Guthrie *(July 14, 1912 &#8211; October 3, 1967) was an American singer-songwriter and folk musician whose musical legacy includes hundreds of political, traditional and children's songs, ballads and improvised works.* He frequently performed with the slogan This Machine Kills Fascists displayed on his guitar*. His best-known song is *"This Land Is Your Land." *Many of his recorded songs are archived in the Library of Congress.[1] Such songwriters as Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs, Bruce Springsteen, John Mellencamp, Pete Seeger, Andy Irvine, Joe Strummer, Billy Bragg, Jay Farrar, Jeff Tweedy, Bob Childers and Tom Paxton have acknowledged Guthrie as a major influence.

Many of his songs are about his experiences in the Dust Bowl era during the Great Depression when Guthrie traveled with migrant workers from Oklahoma to California and learned their traditional folk and blues songs, earning him the nickname the "Dust Bowl Troubadour."[2] *Throughout his life Guthrie was associated with United States Communist groups,* though he was seemingly not a member of any.[3]"


*Moderator edit to insert required link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Guthrie*


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 14, 2014)

bodecea said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



The King's.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 14, 2014)

paulitician said:


> 'This Land is your land, This land is my land.' What happened to that? What happened to the People who stopped believing in that? What terrible trauma did they suffer? What happened to our Country?



Liberal education camps teach sharing is from the people who work to the people who don't work to right the wrong of having to work to survive.

So when a libtard sings "This Land is your land, This land is my land.'  They mean this Land was your land, now its my land, and I didn't have to work for it, la la la la....


----------



## holston (Apr 14, 2014)

Harry Reid's Son Representing Chinese Solar Panel Plant In $5 Billion Nevada Deal - 9/4/12 Article | Alternative


> *Harry Reid&#8217;s Son Representing Chinese Solar Panel Plant In $5 Billion Nevada Deal &#8211; 9/4/12 Article
> Friday, April 11, 2014 *









> *The son of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), Rory Reid, is the primary representative for ENN Energy Group, a Chinese energy company seeking to build a $5 billion solar panel plant on a 9,000-acre Clark County desert plot in Laughlin, Nevada.  *
> 
> 
> ENN scored big when Clark County commissioners unanimously voted to sell the Chinese company the public land for just $4.5 million, despite the fact that it was appraised at $38.6 million.
> ...





> This isn&#8217;t the first time the Reids have come under fire for alleged cronyism. In 2003, allegations emerged that Nevada industries frequently lobbied Sen. Reid through his well-connected relatives.




 This is how our "Representatives" are selling America for their own profit. 

 There are many other examples of this. But you will need to look for them on the net because the Zionist media is not going to report on them .

 As in the case of the Nevada land theft, they will put the spin on it that a bunch of "angry ol' white men" in militias are out conducting "terrorism", then try to turn the issue into one requiring gun confiscation. 

 How do you feel about the Bureau of Land Management becoming a tool of Communist China?

 You people out there do know that the US has conducted joint exercises with Russian and Chinese military within the US don't you? 

 Has your Zionist media informed you of this either, or do they really believe that it is more important for you to know that the Royal Whore has been knocked up again?


----------



## holston (Apr 14, 2014)

bodecea said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



 You would prefer that the Federal Government sell it to the Chinese Communists?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 14, 2014)

holston said:


> Harry Reid's Son Representing Chinese Solar Panel Plant In $5 Billion Nevada Deal - 9/4/12 Article | Alternative
> 
> 
> > *Harry Reids Son Representing Chinese Solar Panel Plant In $5 Billion Nevada Deal  9/4/12 Article
> ...



OMG! The democrat, Chinese, Russian, Zionist, BLM, and US military conspiracy has been uncovered!


----------



## MikeK (Apr 14, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > AntiParty said:
> ...


I don't have any absolute knowledge about David Koresh.  All I know about him is what I've managed to learn by reading various reports.  But I do know the safety of dozens of innocent children depended on how the feds handled that situation.  

What you should know is prior to the ATF raid the Texas Department of Social Services, along with the local sheriff, investigated the charges of child molestation against Koresh and found them to be completely unfounded.

You might wish to read this and educate yourself:  Assault on Waco



> He knew the only way he was leaving that compound was in handcuffs or a body bag, and he chose the body bag, and to take all his followers with him.


So you think the feds did the right thing by disregarding the safety of 21 innocent children and antagonizing then provoking a man they had cause to believe was capable of initiating a mass suicide.  Right?  

What would you have done if you were in charge there?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 14, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > 'This Land is your land, This land is my land.' What happened to that? What happened to the People who stopped believing in that? What terrible trauma did they suffer? What happened to our Country?
> ...



The position that democrats take is; "What's mine is mine, what's yours is to be divided up and shared between everyone."


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 14, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Reid's Son Representing Chinese Solar Panel Plant In $5 Billion Nevada Deal - 9/4/12 Article | Alternative
> ...




So Comrade, it's not true? Reid's son Rory is NOT brokering a deal on behalf of Chinese concerns to build a plant outside of Laughlin? 

Or is it just that corruption by democrats is something you fully support, since party above all?


----------



## 007 (Apr 14, 2014)




----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 14, 2014)

paulitician said:


> 'This Land is your land, This land is my land.' What happened to that? What happened to the People who stopped believing in that?


Apparently you have stopped believing that.

It isn't our land anymore if some rancher believes he can use our public land for his profit seeking ranching business. How do you think he'd feel if a bunch of other ranchers showed up and started grazing 10x as many cattle on it? Would he still be for the concept of "our land" being free for anyone to use?


----------



## 007 (Apr 14, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Reid's Son Representing Chinese Solar Panel Plant In $5 Billion Nevada Deal - 9/4/12 Article | Alternative
> ...


Which exposed you as the slobbering idiot you are.

Only a red assed buffoon would talk like some bubble headed space man from another planet in light of the facts, which is pretty much you.


----------



## boedicca (Apr 14, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > 'This Land is your land, This land is my land.' What happened to that? What happened to the People who stopped believing in that?
> ...




His family had ranched cattle on that land since the 1870s.  Nevada has an open range law.  The bigger issue is 'why on earth should the Feds own over 80% of the land in Nevada?'.

But let's assume for a moment that the Rancher should have owed $1M in fines.  The proper process is to put a lien on his property.  Instead, the Feds tried to pull off some black ops maneuver to seize the cattle.   Where was the proper due process?


----------



## 007 (Apr 14, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > 'This Land is your land, This land is my land.' What happened to that? What happened to the People who stopped believing in that?
> ...



If you showed up in the middle of fucking NOWHERE, NV in the middle of the 1800'S and had the GUTS, the BALLS and the TENACITY to stay there and SURVIVE, LONG BEFORE there were any BORDERS or STATES, I'd say as long as you can do that, HAVE AT IT.

That's what's happening here, moron. It's NOTHING like you're saying.

For Christ sake, GET A FUCKING CLUE before you sound ANY MORE STUPID.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 14, 2014)

boedicca said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...


 
The Indians had it before anyone. Perhaps we should just give it back to them. Hell, maybe we should give a good chunk of the SW back to Mexico while we're at it.


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 14, 2014)

007 said:


> If you showed up in the middle of fucking NOWHERE, NV in the middle of the 1800'S and had the GUTS, the BALLS and the TENACITY to stay there and SURVIVE, LONG BEFORE there were any BORDERS or STATES, I'd say as long as you can do that, HAVE AT IT.


Cool speech, don't forget to wipe the spittle off your monitor.

Anyways = 



007 said:


> That's what's happening here, moron. It's NOTHING like you're saying.


You're clueless, if this guy can prove in court it is his land fine. Until then his opinion (or that of some internet dumbfuck like yourself) isn't relevant.


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 14, 2014)

boedicca said:


> But let's assume for a moment that the Rancher should have owed $1M in fines.  The proper process is to put a lien on his property.  Instead, the Feds tried to pull off some black ops maneuver to seize the cattle.   Where was the proper due process?



Are you kidding me?

They took him to court twice to get him to pay his fees, and won both times. That is due process. They didn't pull some black ops, they warned him ahead of time they would start seizing cattle because they were over the 150 head limit imposes.

This people some are calling a hero is just a wealthy rancher trying to get richer using the resources that don't belong to him.


----------



## 007 (Apr 14, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > If you showed up in the middle of fucking NOWHERE, NV in the middle of the 1800'S and had the GUTS, the BALLS and the TENACITY to stay there and SURVIVE, LONG BEFORE there were any BORDERS or STATES, I'd say as long as you can do that, HAVE AT IT.
> ...





SteadyMercury said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > But let's assume for a moment that the Rancher should have owed $1M in fines.  The proper process is to put a lien on his property.  Instead, the Feds tried to pull off some black ops maneuver to seize the cattle.   Where was the proper due process?
> ...


Double down on being a big government, bubble headed shill that ignores facts. Doesn't matter to me. Although most here will remember and treat you accordingly... moron.

Now I think I hear your mommy calling. Time for you to clean your corner of the basement, twit.


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 14, 2014)

007 said:


> Double down on being a big government, bubble headed shill that ignores facts. Doesn't matter to me. Although most here will remember and treat you accordingly... moron.
> 
> Now I think I hear your mommy calling. Time for you to clean your corner of the basement, twit.


Heh funny when someone has no argument so just jabbers like this.

Please let the forum know when you're ready to back up your position instead of tantrums.


----------



## holston (Apr 14, 2014)

Mustang said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > SteadyMercury said:
> ...




 Do you know how many different Indian tribes there were in the US before white men came? A lot!
And they all fought each other over the land here before white men arrived. 

American Indian's History: Iroquois and Cherokee Tribes, Distribution, Language


> As the Cherokee were the principal tribe on the borders of the southern colonies and occupied the leading place in all the treaty negotiations, they came to be considered as the owners of a large territory to which they had no real claim. Their first sale, in 1721, embraced a tract in South Carolina, between the Congaree and the South Fork of the Edisto,but about one-half of this tract, forming the present Lexington County, belonging to the Congaree. In 1755 they sold a second tract above the first and extending across South Carolina from the Savannah to the Catawba (or Wateree), but all of this tract east of Broad River belonged to other tribes. The lower part, between the Congaree and the Wateree, had been sold 20 years before, and in the upper part the Broad River was acknowledged as the western Catawba boundary. In 1770 they sold a tract, principally in Virginia and West Virginia, bounded east by the Great Kanawha,but the Iroquois claimed by conquest all of this tract northwest of the main ridge of the Alleghany and Cumberland Mountains, and extending at least to the Kentucky River, and two years previously they had made a treaty with Sir William Johnson by which they were recognized as the owners of all between Cumberland Mountains and the Ohio down to the Tennessee. *The Cumberland River basin was the only part of this tract to which the Cherokee had any real title, having driven out the former occupants, the Shawnee, about 1721. *The Cherokee had no villages north of the Tennessee (this probably includes the Holston as its upper part), and at a conference at Albany the Cherokee delegates presented to the Iroquois the skin of a deer, which they said belonged to the Iroquois, as the animal had been killed north of the Tennessee. *In 1805, 1806, and 1817 they sold several tracts, mainly in 79middle Tennessee, north of the Tennessee River and extending to the Cumberland River watershed, but this territory was claimed and had been occupied by the Chickasaw, and at one conference the Cherokee admitted their claim.* The adjacent tract in northern Alabama and Georgia, on the headwaters of the Coosa, was not permanently occupied by the Cherokee until they began to move westward, about 1770.



 The argument that the US rightfully "belonged" to the Indians is a spurious one since the boundaries within it were only formed from the amount of territory which each separate tribe was able to conquer and hold for itself. 

 No doubt the disputes among the various tribes of Indians over property rights bore some resemblance to the disputes which Europeans had been engaged in. 

 The upshot is that throughout the history of man, men have always FOUGHT for CONQUEST of LAND and other rights. 
 The warring nature of man has not been limited to white Europeans.

 I would bet you that if you looked into the history of any other people's in the world that you would find the same type of behavior. 

 I would be the last person to say that this form of conduct is "good". 

 I would be the last person to say that "slaughtering" the Indians was "good" either. 

 But it should be remembered that not all Indians were as noble or peaceful as the Hollywood Jews have attempted to portray them in their efforts to vilify the Western European Anglo Saxon "Christians". 

 I'm sure that TRUE history is replete with many instances of numerous atrocities committed not only against white settlers, but against other Indians as well. 


 Are these kinds of actions any less reprehensible when they are committed by folks of a darker complexion or even those who live below the Rio Grande? 

 I don't think so. So why the constant smears against "white men" alone?

 I suggest that is because only those attacks have been sanctioned by the Kosher press as "politically correct". 

 People who learn their "history" from TV, movies, and off the backs of cereal boxes may easily get the impression that the only acts of violence in the history of men were committed by white men. This impression is constantly being conveyed by the Zionist propagandists of Hollywood, in universities, in the press, and in literature in general. 

 I'm certain that this lop sided presentation will be intensified with the adaptation of the "Common Core Curriculum". 


 None of what I am saying is intended to imply that killing other people or committing acts of genocide, whether it be quickly and openly as someone like Andrew Jackson may have done it, or slowly and furtively as the Israelis are committing it against the Palestinians is a "good thing" , desirable, or even the best means to settle territorial disputes. I'm just trying to accentuate the point that not all people in the world believe in the teachings of Christ when it comes to "trespassing against ones neighbors". 

  I venture to say that God almighty disapproves when ANY MAN robs or murders another man. 

 Indeed, the doctrines of Christ prohibit such behavior. The fact that these doctrines have been so pervasive in the US for so long may be the main reason why so many white people are so susceptible to the argument that they are to blame for "massacring" the Indians and that perhaps they owe not only the Indians, but anyone and everyone else in the world whom the Jewish media has declared to be among their victims. 

 My guess is that as the assault on formal Christianity continues and as more and more people become "secularized " and indoctrinated into the principles of the Secular Humanism, that this foolish willingness to relinquish land as well as their own heritage among white people, will become supplanted by the Machiavellian ethics of the Talmudic Neo-Cons whose war like policies we see being conducted in the mideast presently. 

 Then the US will become more accustomed to the idea of "to the victor goes the spoils". 

 As you know, the Neo-Cons are headed up by pragmatic Zionists who understand as Mao did that "political power comes out of the barrel of a gun". 

 Such was the power that the Neo-Con controlled Bureau of Land Management was threatening to use against the Nevada ranchers, who, had they cow towed down like the obedient subjects of King Obama they were expected to be, would have lost the contest with scarcely a whimper. 

 Fortunately, the citizen ranchers of Nevada had not forgotten their cowboy heritage and decided that King Yomamma was about to go to far. 
 And the Neo-Cons watching the situation unfold undoubtedly decided that to gun down so many flag waving "angry white man" at this stage of the game might cause a premature eruption which they were not quite ready to handle. 
 They intuitively understood that the rest of the nation was watching and might not cotton  to seeing so many ordinary people being gunned down in broad daylight by Federalist thugs. 

 It isn't that the Neo-Cons lack the firepower to put down a national uprising of "angry white men". It's just that, why should they if they can get them to all agree to just surrender whatever they have to the Jews and third world interlopers without any resistance at all?

 In essence, all these namby pamby goyim have been so inundated with the "turn the other cheek" doctrine of Christ that they may be _talked out of whatever they have._

 The Neo-Con hawks and their Talmudic brethren within the US and abroad have no such childish illusions about "Christian" principles when it comes to property rights. They're just happy that the JUDEO xtion ZOGbots do!


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 14, 2014)

boedicca said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Check the Clark County Assessors web site. Bundy placed most of his property in family trusts which is a way of hiding assets which can't be liened unless the person on that trust is named in any legal action. Good planning on his part.

This is nothing more than a rich One Percenter 'getting over' on taxpayers.


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 14, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > SteadyMercury said:
> ...



The only people he is "getting over" and screwing is ZOG, and we the people support Bundy in his effort.

About time someone stood up to these tyrants and their police state, and their blatant displays of attempted theft and thuggery.


----------



## Meister (Apr 14, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > SteadyMercury said:
> ...



I guess he broke the law with the trust....right?


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 14, 2014)

In order to satisfy a lien on property it must be sold and the lien paid out of escrow.  The Bundy land has never been sold.   A lien would sit there forever as a cloud on the title.   He couldn't get a loan though using the property as collateral.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 14, 2014)

The BLM owns thousands of acres along the southern border.  Where are all the lib law and order types who want to stop the trespass of drug cartels and illegal aliens?


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 14, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The BLM owns thousands of acres along the southern border.  Where are all the lib law and order types who want to stop the trespass of drug cartels and illegal aliens?



because...racism.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 14, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> In order to satisfy a lien on property it must be sold and the lien paid out of escrow.  The Bundy land has never been sold.   A lien would sit there forever as a cloud on the title.   He couldn't get a loan though using the property as collateral.




....until he dies and leaves the property to his kids, who would not be able to take title until the lien was lifted.


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 14, 2014)

boedicca said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



You mean the 2 court cases he lost, and the court order demanding that he remove his cattle 15 fucking years ago?

How is that not "due process"? He had his day it court, and he lost.

Twice.


----------



## joejonbob (Apr 14, 2014)

I love how people cite how he lost his case in a federal court, with rules consistently changed by a federal agency, upheld by a federal judge, none of whom are elected, and they act like that is it game over.

First it was water rights, then is was about a tortoise, and as time goes by more and more info is coming out about the minerals, and natural gas in the area.  Any excuse to kick the guy off the land. Not to mention we have an attorney general, and executive branch that openly admit to selective law enforcement.  Why this guy, why now, and why the 200 man army?

I'll tell you what, since Bundy was on "public land" owned by "the people" (right?).  I hereby give him my permission to use it for cattle grazing.

If you think the above statement is BS, I may agree, but in my opinion it holds just as much weight as the BLM's "our word is policy" BS. That isn't even bringing up the 1st amendment zones, or the heavily armed thugs that they have access too.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 14, 2014)

007 said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



My family is traced back to 1629 Bostonia. They owned and ran most of the what today is Boston Harbor. Should I do a Bundy and arrange a band of dumbshit/misfits to take back my property?


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 14, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> 007 said:
> 
> 
> > SteadyMercury said:
> ...



Figures you are descended from puritan assholes.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Apr 14, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > R.C. Christian said:
> ...



Actually, no its not.

That's the whole point.


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 14, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



The whole point is it is his land. Read the Constitution and look up homesteading and common law property laws.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 14, 2014)

joejonbob said:


> I love how people cite how he lost his case in a federal court, with rules consistently changed by a federal agency, upheld by a federal judge, none of whom are elected, and they act like that is it game over.



He did loose in Federal Court.



> First it was water rights, then is was about a tortoise, and as time goes by more and more info is coming out about the minerals, and natural gas in the area.  Any excuse to kick the guy off the land. Not to mention we have an attorney general, and executive branch that openly admit to selective law enforcement.  Why this guy, why now, and why the 200 man army?



It has always been about the millionaire not wanting to pay grazing fees.  

Bundy is a fundamental Mormon. Think Ruby Ridge. I would have had tanks. Why do you think Sheriff Doug went up there escorted by SWAT?, and Sheriff Doug IS a Mormon. He knows.



> I'll tell you what, since Bundy was on "public land" owned by "the people" (right?).  I hereby give him my permission to use it for cattle grazing.



Except you don't have that right. It's 'all the people', and you aren't 'all'.



> If you think the above statement is BS, I may agree, but in my opinion it holds just as much weight as the BLM's "our word is policy" BS. That isn't even bringing up the 1st amendment zones, or the heavily armed thugs that they have access too.



Thugs?


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 14, 2014)

joejonbob said:


> I love how people cite how he lost his case in a federal court, with rules consistently changed by a federal agency, upheld by a federal judge, none of whom are elected, and they act like that is it game over.


Unless he successfully wins in court, yes the game is over. That is how the laws in our country work.



joejonbob said:


> If you think the above statement is BS, I may agree, but in my opinion it holds just as much weight as the BLM's "our word is policy" BS.


Yeah heaven forbid the agency responsible for administering public land has any say in policy regarding public land. Crazy ain't it.


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 14, 2014)

Meister said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



NO. But if you're trying to hide who you are financially, it's a great way to do it.

Millionaire Bundy needs to pay the American taxpayer for using their land.


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## JFK_USA (Apr 14, 2014)

Boy if this was Occupy Wall Street, they would be all for the government kicking them off the land. 

The fact is that he used federal land, didn't pay the grazing fees, lost and then bitched and cried about it. The rules apply to everyone, if you are a rancher using federal land, you must pay grazing fees. You don't get to say "Well I don't want to." Tough shit, that's the law.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 14, 2014)

I'm waiting for another neighbor rancher to move his cattle on the same land. Then, we can all enjoy the same range wars that occurred in Lincoln County, New Mexico, where Billy the kid killed all those people.

Ah, for the good ol' days....!


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## Asclepias (Apr 14, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Actually its not his land you misfit.


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 14, 2014)

JFK_USA said:


> Boy if this was Occupy Wall Street, they would be all for the government kicking them off the land.
> 
> The fact is that he used federal land, didn't pay the grazing fees, lost and then bitched and cried about it. The rules apply to everyone, if you are a rancher using federal land, you must pay grazing fees. You don't get to say "Well I don't want to." Tough shit, that's the law.



Occupy and this rancher are no different. The rancher was actually peacefully protesting the government, then they came in with the snipers and guns to take his cattle over a supposed debt of 1.1 million dollars.

Occupy OTOH, got special permits through courts and unprecedented camping rights through  to destroy public land. Occupy cost taxpayers tens of millions in almost every state for damages. They destroyed parks in Portland, and elsewhere in the US, pissing and shitting on public land.  The clean up effort was expensive and ridiculous for taxpayers. 

When finally told to leave Zucotti park, they refused and left belongings on PUBLIC LAND. Guess what? they have sued and won money for those belongings left on public land-awarded over 300,000 thousand, and more suits are taking place. Seems precedent setting, people can leave their things on public land without paying a cent  and expect to have them not harmed... don't you agree?


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## Interpol (Apr 14, 2014)

Why didn't the rancher just pay the fines all these years? He had been warned for 20 years. 

At first I was on the rancher's side, but like all bullshit right-wing stories, the more you learn about it the more you realize there's more to the story. 

The rancher seemed to happily let his cattle graze on public land. What's he going to do next, let his cattle graze on Mount Rushmore? Let his cattle graze on the Washington mall? 

Doesn't he have his own land where they can roam and graze? 

I don't get the right-wing hypocrisy. If the cattle were grazing on his neighbors land, they'd say "Shoot the cattle! Respect my property!". But since it's public land, they think it's okay for the cattle to be there, because that means they get to pick a stupid little fight with the government. 

How fucking childish is that?


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## Steinlight (Apr 15, 2014)

interpol said:


> why didn't the rancher just pay the fines all these years? He had been warned for 20 years.
> 
> At first i was on the rancher's side, but like all bullshit right-wing stories, the more you learn about it the more you realize there's more to the story.
> 
> ...



gordon kaul! Mcveigh! Militias! American kristallnacht any second now!


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## OnePercenter (Apr 15, 2014)

CaféAuLait;8936147 said:
			
		

> JFK_USA said:
> 
> 
> > Boy if this was Occupy Wall Street, they would be all for the government kicking them off the land.
> ...



Occupy was to protest bad rich people, Bundy is bad rich people.


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## Interpol (Apr 15, 2014)

No, Bundy isn't bad rich people. He's a moocher. 

All the other ranchers pay grazing fees. A cousin of mine is a rancher, and he pays grazing fees. He plays by the rules and doesn't freeload off others. 

Bundy is getting something for nothing. He's a moocher and Republicans defend him because they're the biggest moochers in America. 

This story exposes the right-wing hypocrisy about mooching and freeloading, and that's what this is really about, no matter how badly you morons want to wage war against your own country.


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## Steinlight (Apr 15, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> CaféAuLait;8936147 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What did occupy advocate, raising taxes on people making 250k or  1 million dollars? Making us pay for their student loans for women's studies and basket weaving majors? The reason they failed is they didn't advocate anything truly revolutionary, like ending the fed, cancelling the debt(like in Iceland), nationalizing assets of hedge funds and investment banks, ending fractional reserve banking, among other things. All they were was a control valve for the status quo. Low level democrat party fag activists is what they were, and they served their limited purpose. 

Bundy advocates something truly revolutionary, something truly inspiring, and that is why he succeeded in rallying people to stand in defiance of ZOG.


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## OnePercenter (Apr 15, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > CaféAuLait;8936147 said:
> ...





> 'Bundy advocates something truly revolutionary'



Ripping off the American taxpayer is 'revolutionary'?  WalMart has been doing it for years.


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## CaféAuLait (Apr 15, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



LOL you are worried about the 1.1 million Bundy supposedly owes? 

Don't give  hoot about the of millions and millions Occupy cost taxpayers by destroying PUBLIC lands, eh? How about all the money they are winning in lawsuits for their items removed from public land after being told to leave? 

Occupy protests cost U.S. cities at least $13M

'Occupy' costs U.S. cities at least $13M ? USATODAY.com

*200,000 PLUS awarded for items occupy ordered to remove from public land*

New York, Occupy Wall Street Settle Books Lawsuit for $232k - Decided

So, who is ripping off the American Taxpayer?  hummmm


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 15, 2014)




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## Steinlight (Apr 15, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> Steinlight said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



Ripping off the American taxpayer? He is standing up for the American taxpayer. The notion that the federal government can claim control of land by fiat and demand taxes is unconstitutional and an attack on the taxpayer. Were not livestock that can be milked for taxes for their massive debt, bullshit wars, bullshit bank bailouts, services for illegals,  and salaries for overpaid bureaucrat scum. 

Fuck off with your nonsense. Like you even care about Wal Mart, you support a president that has expanded free trade, which supports Wal Mart which you supposedly despise. 

No one with half a brain buys the con that either party, but especially the democrats in your case, stands for the working class.


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

Steinlight said:


> Ripping off the American taxpayer? He is standing up for the American taxpayer. The notion that the federal government can claim control of land by fiat and demand taxes is unconstitutional and an attack on the taxpayer.


What on earth are you talking about, this has nothing to do with taxes.

Ranchers who use public land for grazing must pay a fee to do so, this is quite common in large Western states. He used to pay the grazing fees, but when the organization in charge of administering the land wanted to limit how many heads of cattle he could have he decided to stop paying the fees.

The US owns that land. When Nevada became a state in 1864 (which predates this guys' ridiculous claim to family being on this land) the citizens agreed to this as part of the conditions of becoming and enjoying the benefits of their territory becoming a US state. 

From the Nevada constitution at THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF NEVADA


> _"Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States"_




That is federal land, it has nothing to do with taxes, and you are supporting a wealthy freeloader.


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> I'm waiting for another neighbor rancher to move his cattle on the same land. Then, we can all enjoy the same range wars that occurred in Lincoln County, New Mexico, where Billy the kid killed all those people.
> 
> Ah, for the good ol' days....!


Yup, just let another rancher with a lot more cattle than him decide to move them onto this public land to graze, see how long this rich moocher stands by the "free land to use" ethos.


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## paulitician (Apr 15, 2014)

It's not over. Rumors are, Big Brother will be stepping up the harassment of this man and his family. 'Dirty Harry' Reid and his Chinese buddies are livid. They want blood. This man and his family need our prayers. This is far from over.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



60 ranchers kicked off hundreds of thousands of acreage.  One rancher left.  And the typical we don't need no friggin jobs we need tax revenue ass holes come out of the woodwork to kill the last rancher.


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## paulitician (Apr 15, 2014)

Look for em to label him an 'Evil Cult Leader', 'Child Molester', 'Racist', or 'Terrorist' next. I said right at the start that Big Brother is vindictive and evil. They want this man destroyed or dead. Make no mistake about that.


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

paulitician said:


> They want this man destroyed or dead. Make no mistake about that.


Drama queen much?

They want him to follow their rules regarding max number of cattle to graze on this land he doesn't own, and to pay the grazing fees like everyone else.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

paulitician said:


> It's not over. Rumors are, Big Brother will be stepping up the harassment of this man and his family. 'Dirty Harry' Reid and his Chinese buddies are livid. They want blood. This man and his family need our prayers. This is far from over.



"We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over." (Harry Reid, South Western Czar of the Socialist Party.) 

Reid made his threats after unveiling four brand new battery-electric buses for the RTC fleet.  Buses paid for by Federal Grants.  That's right Texans are buying Dirty Harry all Electric Buses.   But that's ok cause they are using batteries from Altair, a firm that is in Dirty Harry's back pocket and gets lots of federal grants and state grift.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > They want this man destroyed or dead. Make no mistake about that.
> ...



Everyone else?  He's the only one left on 750,000 acres and he's got 900 cows.  Are you math challenged?

No one could be as stupid and as gullible as you are pretending to be. Who's paying you to post on this site?


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## paulitician (Apr 15, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > They want this man destroyed or dead. Make no mistake about that.
> ...



Big Brother wants it all. And he'll kill anyone who gets in his way. One day even you loyal Goose Steppers will come to realize that.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

paulitician said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



The goose steppers are counting on it.  They plan to be local czars in the new communist party hierarchy.


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Everyone else?  He's the only one left on 750,000 acres and he's got 900 cows.  Are you math challenged?


So your contention is there are no other ranches paying grazing fees to use BLM land? Let me explain again since you are a simpleton, I'll type more slowly: other ranchers pay fees to use public land for grazing, this guy stopped paying them.



RKMBrown said:


> Who's paying you to post on this site?





RKMBrown said:


> The goose steppers are counting on it.


Lol yeah and here we begin nonsensically regurgitating from the playbook. Paid posting shills, goose steppers, etc. are you so shallow brained you can't come up with anything original?

Funny as hell man.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone else?  He's the only one left on 750,000 acres and he's got 900 cows.  Are you math challenged?
> ...


Hey retard,  750k acres 1 rancher 900 cows.  How stupid are you? Can you do the math or not?


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## DiamondDave (Apr 15, 2014)

Still looking for the part of the constitution that gives the federal government municipal policing powers....


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Look for em to label him an 'Evil Cult Leader', 'Child Molester', 'Racist', or 'Terrorist' next. I said right at the start that Big Brother is vindictive and evil. They want this man destroyed or dead. Make no mistake about that.



They only have to label him a free loader that refuses to pay what everyone else using the lands for grazing pays.  Its not his land.  End of discussion.


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Hey retard,  750k acres 1 rancher 900 cows.  How stupid are you? Can you do the math or not?


Again, slowly for you: *other ranchers pay fees to use public land for their cattle to graze, this guy stopped paying them*.

You have taken that statement and irrationally fixated on the acreage to cattle ratio to disprove it, really amusing to watch.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

DiamondDave said:


> Still looking for the part of the constitution that gives the federal government municipal policing powers....



Check the 5th amendment. Its right next to the part that says freeloaders can annex public land for private use without conforming to the rules of the entity in charge of the land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Eminent_domain


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> refuses to pay what everyone else using the lands for grazing pays.


Weee cue RKMBrown with more acreage to cattle ratios to prove nobody else pays fees to use public land for cattle.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Hey retard,  750k acres 1 rancher 900 cows.  How stupid are you? Can you do the math or not?
> ...



Liar.  Name one other person using the land in question, who is paying fees for it. Just one.  

Yes or no, oh mentally handicapped one.  There is a marked difference between someone in Kansas paying to graze a green pasture for a month to fatten cattle for market, and a family using grazing land that the family has used for centuries in the middle of the desert, where the government has illegally asserted ownership rights in an effort to kick every rancher off the desert to save the turtles and build Chinese solar power plants.

What a dumb ass  you are.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

The Nevada State Constitution effectively killed any rights his ancestors may have had to the land.  Where is his deed for the land?



> &#8220;Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States;


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## Katzndogz (Apr 15, 2014)

I doubt there will be any official harassment.  This government is more likely to use a middle of the night gas leak in the Bundy home.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)




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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Check out the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 (pdf) which really killed any rights he may be trying to claim his family had. No wonder he has lost twice in court.  There is a mountain of evidence against him and he cant possibly have title to the land or paid property taxes.

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Taylor-Grazing-Act-1934.pdf




> So far as consistent with the purposes and provisions of this subchapter, grazing privileges recognized and acknowledged shall be adequately safeguarded, but the creation of a grazing district or the issuance of a permit pursuant to the provisions of this subchapter *shall not create any right, title, interest, or estate in or to the lands.*


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Liar.  Name one other person using the land in question, who is paying fees for it. Just one.


I don't have to name anyone using that land to back up my claim that other ranchers pay fees to graze on public land, you are just too much of a mental midget to grasp that.

Again, even more slowly for the forum dolt: *other ranchers pay fees to have their cattle graze on public land, this guy does not.*

We now await RKMBrown to attempt to disprove something else, yet again.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> The Nevada State Constitution effectively killed any rights his ancestors may have had to the land.  Where is his deed for the land?
> 
> 
> 
> > &#8220;Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States;



Bull shirt.  They ran off all but one of the ranchers to "save the turtles."



> The grazing rules for the land went through changes over the years, including some updated grazing rules in 1993 in the Gold Butte land area of Nevada. Among other issues, the 1993 rules were changed to protect the endangered desert tortoise. Other rules included limits to the number of cattle allowed in certain areas[13] to protect the lands from the severe over-grazing and destruction[13] which was caused by less regulation over the years. Bundy claims land managers changed the terms, citing concern for the desert tortoise, reducing Bundy's 158,666-acre Bunkerville allotment by 90% and capping his allotment to 150 animals.[14] Currently there are no grazing permits on the Bunkerville allotment, and any livestock on that land are there illegally



Bundy fought back, the other ranchers were run off.  Cut his access by 90% and allotment to 150 animals.  150 animals is more a hobby size, no family could live off that, not on stringy desert cows anyways. 

Can't believe you jerks are defending this crap.  Oh yeah it's not your family that's being destroyed.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Liar.  Name one other person using the land in question, who is paying fees for it. Just one.
> ...



I pay the toll to drive on the tollway, what the hell does that have to do with cattle grazing in the middle of the desert?  Jackass.


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## DiamondDave (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> DiamondDave said:
> 
> 
> > Still looking for the part of the constitution that gives the federal government municipal policing powers....
> ...




Actually... nothing in there gives the federal government any such power


still waiting


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

Check this out in another Nevada federal land grab:


> Statement of Randy N. Parker for, The US House of Representatives, Committee on Natural Resources, Subcommittee on Water and Power, October 10, 2013:
> 
> Judge Jones found:[18]
> 
> ...



These BLM are a real piece of work.  Hired crooks and liars.  The feds need to be run out of town on a rail.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > The Nevada State Constitution effectively killed any rights his ancestors may have had to the land.  Where is his deed for the land?
> ...




How is that BS?  Its there in black and white.  The state constitution kills any claim his family had specifically because it predates his family claim by about 16 years.  They never ever owned the land in any shape or form.  If you check the 5th Amendment of the constitution the government can take your land for public use as long as they compensate you.  Since it was not his land and never was he has no claim whatsoever.  Everything else is BS after that.  I cant believe you want the rancher to have welfare and he does not need it!!!


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

DiamondDave said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > DiamondDave said:
> ...




You must not have read the part about eminent domain did you?


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


If he follows the law, there won't be any ranchers left on that 750k acres.  What part of that fact is escaping you?


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## SteadyMercury (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> I pay the toll to drive on the tollway, what the hell does that have to do with cattle grazing in the middle of the desert?  Jackass.


Ahh so other ranchers paying fees to use public land for grazing has nothing to do with this rancher who is supposed to be paying fees but doesn't, all because you paying tolls isn't related either.

Hah hah this is great, keep 'em coming man it is some serious laughs watching you twist yourself into pretzel logic. I'd love to see you trying to tie your shoes in the morning.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Why is that a problem that there will be no ranchers left? What do you mean if? I thought people who did not follow laws are criminals?  Are you advocating we only follow laws we agree with?  What is confusing you about the fact that this guy is a freeloading criminal?


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## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



But, that wasn't the point you were making. 
He certainly wasn't trying to hide who he was financially.....A trust is a piss poor way to do that.  But, I think you knew that.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > I pay the toll to drive on the tollway, what the hell does that have to do with cattle grazing in the middle of the desert?  Jackass.
> ...



When the feds give farmers and ranchers regulations that result in closing down of farms and ranches, and you defend that crap.... you and your scum bag ilk have crossed a pretty big line.  The law has become a joke, the law has attacked the people it was tasked to defend, the law has become the enemy of the people, ...  it's time to start fighting back ya jack-wagon.


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## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



There's more to this than meets the eye, and ACE knows it.  He/she is just a tool.


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## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



It seems the law and the government is becoming an enemy of the people and more rapidly than I could ever imagine.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> My family is traced back to 1629 Bostonia. They owned and ran most of the what today is Boston Harbor. Should I do a Bundy and arrange a band of dumbshit/misfits to take back my property?



That would require you to leave your moms basement, and we all know THAT ain't going to happen.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



The law must have always been the enemy of the people then. One of the sovereign rights of the government is power over the land. The 5th amendment was actually added to the constitution in order to limit that power called eminent domain.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Luddly Neddite said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...



It's the King's land, per royal decree.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Just another way of saying eminent domain.


----------



## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > SteadyMercury said:
> ...



And, in 2005 the Supreme Court broadened the interpretation of eminent domain.....and screwed this great nation and its citizens. 

Kelo v. City of New London


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...


Actually it protects citizens as the government has to compensate at fair market value.....that is if you actually own the land which this rancher does not.  i also need to correct inalienable right to sovereign right.


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## 9thIDdoc (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > SteadyMercury said:
> ...



The gov. doesn't have rights.


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## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



That was a terrible spin and a big fail on you, tool.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> Occupy was to protest bad rich people, Bundy is bad rich people.



Bundy produces beef, which I like to eat.

You sit in your moms basement smoking dope you bought with SSI that comes out of my paycheck.

WHO IS BAD?


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

9thIDdoc said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Read the 5th amendment and you will find that you are categorically wrong.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



You should be able to prove that with facts instead of your opinion.


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## bodecea (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



The government paid Mexico for it in the mid-1800s...who has offered to purchase it outright since then?


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## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



You just need to educate yourself with eminent domain before and after the Kelo decision, tool.
I'm not here to be your 6th grade teacher.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



IOW you figured out it wasn't a spin or a fail.  I dont need to educate myself on anything. You need to make sure you know what you are talking about and how it applies to the OP.  The rancher guy is wrong at every step in the process.  He is a free loading criminal.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Just another way of saying eminent domain.



Either way, the notion that this is "public" or "the peoples" land is an absurd farce.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Actually it protects citizens as the government has to compensate at fair market value.....that is if you actually own the land which this rancher does not.  i also need to correct inalienable right to sovereign right.



You are mistaken.

Kelo dealt with invoking eminent domain to transfer private land to other private owners. New London evicted home owners and took their homes so that a private developer could bulldoze the houses they lived in, and put up condos. 

Kelo was the great ass-fucking of property rights.


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## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Your post was a terrible spin, and do I have to remind you that you brought up the 5th amendment and eminent domain in your post?
I still don't think you know the difference between eminent domain now and prior to the Kelo decision.  Just sayin'......


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## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

There is an important lesson to be learned in all this; what a bunch of "angry white men" can do WHEN THEY BAN TOGETHER. 

 THAT is what it's going to take. 

 I'm convinced that these people were ready to be shot down to prove a point. That's what it is going to take. 

 You can argue about this with the dope heads, Marxists, and Zionist Jews 'til the cows come home and it will NEVER change a thing.

 The ONLY thing they will ever understand is a PHYSICAL confrontation. 

 After years of having "discussions" like these with libs and Hasbarats, I am 100% certain of it. 

 As "angry white men", we must decide whether our lives are so dear that we are willing to accept Jewish hegemony and all the "multiculturalist" miscegenation, domination, humiliation and mistreatment that goes with it, or else be willing to face death or injury openly resisting it. 

 I don't say this lightly. I am afraid that death and injury is pretty much what the Jewish Supremacists and their brown minions have in mind for us anyway. 

 Either those ranchers understood this or they didn't. They WERE threatened with it either way.


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## Vandalshandle (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> There is an important lesson to be learned in all this; what a bunch of "angry white men" can do WHEN THEY BAN TOGETHER.
> 
> THAT is what it's going to take.
> 
> ...



Sig heil!


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> There is an important lesson to be learned in all this; what a bunch of "angry white men" can do WHEN THEY BAN TOGETHER.
> 
> THAT is what it's going to take.
> 
> ...



Typical.  Good Americans (ranchers) fighting against bad Americans (paid thugs of the tyrannical government), and the bad Americans send a racist bigoted pig to make the good guys look like racist bigoted pigs.

This issue has nothing to do with race.  Go away.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Just another way of saying eminent domain.
> ...



Who else ever had title to the land?  Someone has to own it and according to the Nevada State Constitution the government does.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Actually it protects citizens as the government has to compensate at fair market value.....that is if you actually own the land which this rancher does not.  i also need to correct inalienable right to sovereign right.
> ...



No you are wrong. Look up the definition and look at the 5th amendment.  Its not that hard of a concept to figure out.



> eminent domain
> nounLAW
> 1.
> the right of a government or its agent to expropriate private property for public use, *with payment of compensation.*


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



So far you have not shown me where I am spinning anything.  I brought up the 5th amendment to point out even if he owned the land the government can still take it.  He doesnt own it.  How is that a spin?  I told you I dont need to know about the Kelo decision to bring up the fact they could take the land if the rancher owned it.....which he doesnt.  Why is Kelo relevant?


----------



## Meister (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


You're still spinning, the OP had nothing to do with eminent domain whatsoever.  You brought it up for whatever reason.  Then you say that the citizens were better off after the Kelo decision, that's where I pointed out that you were spinning, you had no clue on that case.  It had to be one of the worst decisions from the court for the American people.  True story.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Maybe you missed my post. I brought up eminent domain to point out if the rancher even owned the land as claimed, the government could take it.  How is the Kelo decision pertinent as that was back in 2005?  Its 2014 in case you got caught in a time wrinkle and forgot.


----------



## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > There is an important lesson to be learned in all this; what a bunch of "angry white men" can do WHEN THEY BAN TOGETHER.
> ...



 Don't kid yourself "Duke". You need to dig a little deeper. Then maybe you would realize who it is that's giving the "paid thugs of the tyrannical government" their orders and WHY.

 Harry Reid and his son trying to make a mint off the Chinese desire to set up shop in the US is only the tip of the ice berg. 

 People need to learn to look beyond the next immediate link in the chain. 

 The Federal Reserve provides a good example of this. Because of the convoluted way in which the Fed and their merry band of Wall Street bandits commit their thefts, the unsuspecting masses can't see the connection between the loss of buying power of their money and the increasing wealth of the elitists who are running the show. 

 Likewise with the "Tea Party", the Movement for 9/11 Truth and any other grass roots movements to take the country back. 
 Haven't you noticed how that almost as soon as they gain enough traction to make the national news they begin to lose steam as Zionist infiltrators step in and commandeer the operation?

 For the sake of brevity I will make you an offer. If you doubt what I am trying to say or simply don't see it, I will be willing to back up every word I am saying with supporting evidence provided you are willing to maintain an open mind long enough to take the information in without slamming the door shut prematurely. 

 In the meantime, don't restrict your line of reasoning to looking at one step only in the chain of cause and effect. 

 Dogs, and cats, and cattle do this. This short sightedness on their part may either be a blessing or a curse. In the case of dogs and cats, they cannot reason well enough to be able to safely cross the road. In the case of cattle, they are blessed with the sweet oblivion of being able to graze in peace without realizing that one day a cattle car will be coming around to take them on the journey to the slaughter house. 

 Our elitist rulers liken us to both dogs and cattle. 

 We should at least deprive them the benefit of the joke they are playing on us by not failing to see the connection between one event and a cause which may be several steps removed from it. 

 The fact that the much more serious problem of "our representatives" being able to sell pieces of America to communist interlopers seems lost upon those who are preoccupied with arguing over "eminent domain" which is just another way of saying that the King and his minions may legally seize your property anytime they get good and damned ready, with or without notification. 

 The Jewish Supremacists which have spearheaded the Socialist movement in the US fancy themselves to be the smartest "race" in the world. 

 One way they are able to maintain this illusion is that they have learned that people with short attention spans often get lost when they are forced to take the long way around the barn. 
 They understand that we "simple folk" are accustomed to looking at only what appears at the surface and only for the brief time in which we are observing it. 

 All the Chosen have to do in order to pull the wool over the sheeps eyes is to cloak what they do and provide a sufficient time interval between one move and the next so that by the time one is realized, the other is forgotten. 

 We have allowed the foxes in to guard the hen houses and can't understand why we are loosing so many chickens.


 The situation in Nevada is only symptomatic of a larger much more pervasive condition endemic in the US now. 

 You can't treat a cancer with a band aid. You have to cut it out at it's ROOTS.


----------



## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Typical.  Good Americans (ranchers) fighting against bad Americans (paid thugs of the tyrannical government), and the bad Americans send a racist bigoted pig to make the good guys look like racist bigoted pigs.
> 
> This issue has nothing to do with race.  Go away.



 By the way, I am not the one who is "making the good guys look like racist bigoted pigs". 

 Take a look around. Take a good, long, hard look. 

 While you are at it, please explain to me exactly what you mean by "racist bigoted pig".

 You may begin with the word "racist".


 Even if you succeed in chasing away all critics of our Zionist Organizational Government, you can be certain that those who are leading it will NOT go away, at least not voluntarily. 

 So why should I?


----------



## Mustang (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Just another way of saying eminent domain.
> ...


 
No it's not. That's what public land IS. It belongs to the citizens of the country as a whole.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 15, 2014)

paulitician said:


> SteadyMercury said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...


 
How many people has the gov't killed in the standoff so far? While you compile those figures, would you mind telling me how many people were wounded? If you don't have hard and fast numbers, I'll settle for an approximation considering that it must be chaos down there with all the shots that must have been fired by gov't stormtroopers, snipers, etc.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Who else ever had title to the land?  Someone has to own it and according to the Nevada State Constitution the government does.



This is the Kings land, commoners will be punished for trespassing upon it.

IF it were the peoples land, then the people would have access.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> No you are wrong. Look up the definition and look at the 5th amendment.  Its not that hard of a concept to figure out.



What is it I'm wrong about.



> eminent domain
> nounLAW
> 1.
> the right of a government or its agent to expropriate private property *for public use*, with payment of compensation.



Kelo corrupted this by expropriating private property for PRIVATE use.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Mustang said:


> No it's not. That's what public land IS. It belongs to the citizens of the country as a whole.



I'm allowed to get in my car.

I'm not allowed on public land.

The car belongs to me.

The land belongs to the King.

Are you really so stupid you can't grasp this concept?


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Who else ever had title to the land?  Someone has to own it and according to the Nevada State Constitution the government does.
> ...



They do have access. Are you sure youre aware of what you are talking about?  People camp and do other recreational activities on the land.  This douchebag doesn't want to pay the fees he should for grazing.


----------



## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> Sig heil!



 Thank you for your hearty approval. 

 It's "Sieg" not "Sig".


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > No you are wrong. Look up the definition and look at the 5th amendment.  Its not that hard of a concept to figure out.
> ...



You are wrong about pretty much everything you have typed so far.

What is your fascination with Kelo and how does it apply to this issue?  See my other posts speaking about eminent domain and how it applies in the case the rancher actually owned the land.....which he doesn't.  He is a freeloader, liar, and he has duped all the fools supporting him.  This isnt the little man against the government.  This is a wealthy rancher who is feeding his cattle for free instead of paying grazing fees like the other ranchers.


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## boedicca (Apr 15, 2014)

Mustang said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...




That sounds really nice, except for the fact that there are over 300M people in the U.S., the vast majority of whom have absolutely zero desire to visit scrub land in NV.

In reality, the fact that the Federal Government "owns" 84% of Nevada just provide yet another vehicle for Big Government Cronyism on the tax payer dime.


----------



## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



 There are places in Arizona I believe which are designated public lands which the public has been warned to stay off of because the Mexican drug cartels have the area pretty much sewed up and it's dangerous to go in there. 

 Where does the Bureau of Land Management stand on _that_ issue?

 The illegal immigrants crossing the Mexican boarders have been trashing ranchers land way down Texas way for years and years and the government doesn't seem too upset over that. 

 As I pointed out earlier, this wasn't about "grazing fees" or saving turtles. It was about a business deal that Harry Reid and his son cut with the Chinese to build factories and establish Chinese colonies on US territory. 
 They weren't even going to get the full value of the land at that. 
  Since you know that the Reids wouldn't be satisfied with so many beads and gee gaws like the Indians, you can safely assume that they stood to get some hefty kick backs. 

 Why are you so concerned about cows eating the grass when the grass will grow back. 

 Turning over US lands to foreign entities, especially Communist ones would be a much more difficult action to reverse. 

 What are you anyway, a communist? 

 Or do farting cows bother you more than a communist take over?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> They do have access.



So, that's what the signs declaring "Trespassers Will be Shot on order of the Federal Government" mean?

Good to know, I took it differently.



> Are you sure you aware of what you are talking about?  People camp and do other recreational activities on the land.  This douchebag doesn't want to pay the fees he should for grazing.



ROFL

You are so full of shit.

Small sections of national parks allow camping and recreation. 90% of even Yellowstone is off limits to the public. On 99.9% of federal land you'll go to jail or be shot if you are caught on it. About half of federal land in Nevada is irradiated from your beloved rulers setting off nuclear bombs.

Seriously dude, are you drunk today?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> You are wrong about pretty much everything you have typed so far.



Meister thinks you're trying to spin; but that's not it, is it? You are abjectly ignorant - you simply have no clue what you're yammering about.

{ Term:

    2000-2009
        2004

Location: City of New London Town Hall
Facts of the Case 

New London, a city in Connecticut, used its eminent domain authority to seize private property to sell to private developers. The city said developing the land would create jobs and increase tax revenues. Kelo Susette and others whose property was seized sued New London in state court. The property owners argued the city violated the Fifth Amendment's takings clause, which guaranteed the government will not take private property for public use without just compensation. Specifically the property owners argued taking private property to sell to private developers was not public use. The Connecticut Supreme Court ruled for New London}

Kelo v. City of New London | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law

You not knowing what the case is about is ignorance.

Ignorance is forgivable, and easily rectified with a bit of knowledge.



> What is your fascination with Kelo and how does it apply to this issue?  See my other posts speaking about eminent domain and how it applies in the case the rancher actually owned the land.....which he doesn't.  He is a freeloader, liar, and he has duped all the fools supporting him.  This isnt the little man against the government.  This is a wealthy rancher who is feeding his cattle for free instead of paying grazing fees like the other ranchers.



On the other hand, you speaking out on a subject you are ignorant of, is stupidity.

Stupidity is not forgivable.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Let me know when there is a standoff in Arizona.  At that point I will address your retarded off topic questions concerning them.  Your theories dont mean much to me without some evidence.  However, even if true the rancher is still not paying his fees and breaking the law.  

I'm not concerned about cows eating grass. I'm concerned with wealthy ranchers free loading.

If you are concerned about land being turned over to foreign companies you better not research how much land they have already purchased for years.  Better yet you better start working in the political arena to make it illegal for foreigners to own land in the US.

I possibly could be communist but that has nothing to do with the free loading rancher who enjoys cows farting.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > They do have access.
> ...



Evidently you don't understand the meaning of trespasser.  To give you a fundamental understanding imagine that you own property and your family walks onto your land.  No problem right?  Now imagine a stranger that you did not give permission to doing the same thing.  That guy is a trespasser.  If you dont have permission you are a trespasser.

We are not talking about Yellowstone. Get back to the point which is the freeloading rancher getting richer at taxpayer expense and having the audacity to think he is has a right to do what he is doing.  If for some reason he wins his fight you wont see a dime in return. How stupid are you for supporting welfare when it is not needed?


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## Mustang (Apr 15, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


 
Are you obtuse? 

The land, as well as what's on it and in it (timber, grass, surface water, underground aquifer water, ore, oil, natural gas, etc) is a natural resource which is owned by the citizens of the country and managed by the federal gov't. That's why our taxes pay for the management of these resources, and licensing the exploitation of those resources when it comes to grazing fees and mining royalties as well as fees for entering national parks. This management of our (the citizens') resources results in payments to the BLM and/or the treasury to defray the cost of managing the land, building and maintaining roads, etc.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > You are wrong about pretty much everything you have typed so far.
> ...



Yeah I knew about that.  What does that have to do with whats going on in Nevada?  Be specific.


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## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Mustang said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



You will find that when people dont have a leg to stand on any excuse will do to get totally off the point.  Its pretty cut and dried. The guy never owned the land. He stopped paying his fees to graze. He lost in court.  Twice.  He is a free loader.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Yeah I knew about that.  What does that have to do with whats going on in Nevada?  Be specific.



Pathetic, seriously pathetic.


----------



## Plasmaball (Apr 15, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



except for the fact they won and bought it from Mexico during the American/Mexican war you retard. So you are literally spitting on dead soldiers. We werent just given Nevada because we are nice people. We fought for it and won. Naturally the Federal government would own it in some fashion.


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## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Let me know when there is a standoff in Arizona.  At that point I will address your retarded off topic questions concerning them.  Your theories dont mean much to me without some evidence.  However, even if true the rancher is still not paying his fees and breaking the law.
> 
> I'm not concerned about cows eating grass. I'm concerned with wealthy ranchers free loading.
> 
> ...



 You must have missed the first one. If there is another one which develops in the future I'll try to let you know. Then you and your Bolshevik comrades can show up to help the Federal forces "spread the wealth around". 

Nevada ranching family claims victory as government releases cattle | Reuters



> (Reuters) -* U.S. officials ended a stand-off *with hundreds of armed protesters in the Nevada desert on Saturday, calling off the government's roundup of cattle it said were illegally grazing on federal land and giving about 300 animals back to the rancher who owned them.



 Reuters, being pretty much a Jew dominated rag failed to mention the Reid connection to China. So here it is again just as a reminder. 
http://patriotaction.net/profiles/blogs/breitbart-harry-reid-s-son-representing-chinese-solar-panel-plant


> * The son of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), Rory Reid, is the primary representative for ENN Energy Group, a Chinese energy company seeking to build a $5 billion solar panel plant on a 9,000-acre Clark County desert plot in Laughlin, Nevada.*




 Too bad for you, your communist pals lost this round. 

 I will agree with you that there are many more places in the US which ARE being sold off to foreign entities. 
 In fact, there is at least one notable economist I can think of who called the de-industrialization of the US a "leveraged sell out of the US economy". 

 It's not that I would expect the likes of you people to mourn the loss of US Sovereignty, or property rights anymore than the hack job King Yomamma and the Bush dynasty have done to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. 

 I'm just saying that a Zionist oligarchy of elitist plutocrats and Jewish Supremacists ruling the country is not a satisfactory substitution for the heritage that all the "angry white men" are being asked to give up. 

 If you get so riled about the farting cows eating government grass then I should expect you to be at least a little more concerned about illegal aliens trashing Texas rancher's land and occupying huge portions of Arizona for the flourishing drug business that's destroying America. 

 People like you are quick to pour out and jump up and down on white cattle ranchers and other "angry white men" when their farting cows eat government grass. You're just as quick to praise King Yomammi when he releases 68,000 illegal Mexicans from jails who were there NOT for breaking immigration laws, but for BREAKING THE LAW period. 

   I wish you commies would try to get your priorities straight or at least try to show some semblance of fairness in the way you dispense your criticisms.

 How much grass do you think those cows ate in terms of dollars and cents when compared to the economic load that millions of illegal Mexicans on YOmammaCare are going to cost?


----------



## boedicca (Apr 15, 2014)

Plasmaball said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...




Yeah.  Just like it says in The Constitution.   The EPA has the power to declare war on ranchers so that the Federal Government can Own Land In Some Fashion.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 15, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Pretty much.



> The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.



Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2.


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## jon_berzerk (Apr 15, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



*The EPA has the power to declare war on ranchers so that the Federal Government can Own Land In Some Fashion*

clause two 

and sell some to the chinese to develop solar plants 

and hold other parts as an offset 

for the destructive nature of the prior


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## Plasmaball (Apr 15, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



seriously where you repeatedly punched in the head a lot? I can't figure out how someone like you is this motherfucking stupid. 

none of this has any relevance to Bundy. You literally know nothing of the story.


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## Plasmaball (Apr 15, 2014)

theDoctorisIn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...



thats the liberal constitution made by commies.


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## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

Harry Reid Bolsters Son?s Interests in Chinese Solar Plant Deal

Look at the DATE on this article. 



> Thursday, 06 September *2012 *10:09
> *Harry Reid Bolsters Son&#8217;s Interests in Chinese Solar Plant Deal*



 Read the article. 



> *Rory Reid*, the eldest son of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), *is the chief* *representative* *for a* *Chinese *energy firm planning to build a $5-billion solar plant on public land in Laughlin, Nevada. ENN Energy Group, a clean-energy firm that manufactures a range of renewable-energy products, is seeking to construct its solar panel facility on a 9,000-acre stretch of land on a Clark County desert plot.



 Did you find anything mentioned about "saving turtles" therein?


> In addition to Reid&#8217;s and his son&#8217;s questionable affairs with the ENN project, the Nevada senator has had other *dubious political dealings within the clean-energy sector.* American solar firm Amonix, for example, recently slipped into financial disarray after receiving *$6 million in federal tax credits *and a *$15.6-million grant *in 2007 for research and development.
> 
> Amazingly, the company is only 16 months old, wi*thout any track record of success, yet it received a multi-million-dollar, taxpayer-funded jackpot*. Many critics asked why. In a July article, the Las Vegas Review-Journal offered this answer:
> 
> ...




 What about farting cows depleting eating up the grass?

 Do you see anything that would suggest that the US government is worried about running up excessive national debt due to binging cows?


----------



## theDoctorisIn (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> Harry Reid Bolsters Son?s Interests in Chinese Solar Plant Deal
> 
> Look at the DATE on this article.
> 
> ...



Laughlin, NV is 250 miles from where Bundy's cows were grazing (and the ENN project was cancelled last summer, anyway).

Did you think your link actually had anything to do with the situation with Bundy?


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## R.C. Christian (Apr 15, 2014)

LOL, this thread is sad. I'm sorry you liberal cowards didn't get your 2nd Waco or Ruby Ridge. It is April after all.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Let me know when there is a standoff in Arizona.  At that point I will address your retarded off topic questions concerning them.  Your theories dont mean much to me without some evidence.  However, even if true the rancher is still not paying his fees and breaking the law.
> ...



i didn't miss the first one.  i said let me know when another occurs and there is a thread on it.  Good thing they called if off.  Otherwise they were going to make martyrs of some people who were merely stupid misguided people.  The real criminal is going to be handled via the courts.

I already told you I dont care about what cows do. i care about wealthy people fooling you commoners into supporting them as they rip off the system.  You dont know how I feel about illegals or the drug trade so you should stop guessing and assuming until you have some intelligence on the issue.

Angry white men don't bother me as they die from bullets just like other men and tend to be stupid and scary anyway.  Watching them turn red from anger is funny not frightening.  There is nothing "fair" about how these guys got their heritage as you call it. They got it by force. Why would I be fair in my criticism of them?


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah I knew about that.  What does that have to do with whats going on in Nevada?  Be specific.
> ...



Yes you are pathetic.  Next time try to be relevant to the topic and not tell me about some case that has nothing to do with the OP.


----------



## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

While we're at it,
 here's another little item some of you sleepy heads may have missed:


After federal grant, US battery-maker taken over by Chinese firm | Fox News



> *After federal grant, US battery-maker taken over by Chinese firm*
> Published August 09, 2012
> *The Wall Street Journal*



 Notice the source of the article. You can't exactly say that this information was obtained from Neo-Nazis or "white supremacists" either. 



> A company that two years ago was one of the most promising U.S. innovators in the clean-fuel auto industry was rescued from collapse Wednesday. Its buyer: A Chinese auto-parts company.
> 
> Wanxiang Group Corp., one of China's biggest parts makers, offered a $450 million lifeline to A123 Systems Inc., a maker of advanced batteries for electric vehicles that received U.S.-government backing. The deal would put the firm's lithium-ion technology and its U.S.-funded manufacturing plant into the hands of a company that has slowly acquired a passel of auto assets across the Midwest.



 How understanding do you potheads and Marxists think your new Chinese bosses are going to be your "liberal" causes once they learn enough Engrish to come over here and start ordering you about?

 In case that's too much for your doped brain to handle, consider how sympathetic they are to their own Chinese workers who are in the sweat shops of all the US industries that have gone overseas. 



> Last month, state-owned Cnooc Ltd. offered $15.1 billion for a Canadian energy company, on the same day China Petrochemical Corp. offered to buy a stake in a U.K. oil company. *Globally, Chinese firms have disclosed more than 1,400 acquisitions since January of 2008, says researcher Dealogic*.



 Not to wolly. Hawee Weed son, not woko. NOT Chinese. He wich, not woko.




> Hoping to kick-start an electric-vehicle battery industry, t*he U.S. provided $1.26 billion since 2009 to battery makers i*ncluding Johnson Controls Inc., LG Chem Ltd., and Dow Kokam, a joint venture of Dow Chemical Co. and South Korea's Kokam Co., to set up nine factories in four U.S. states. Most are producing far fewer batteries than originally expected. Ener1 Inc., another government-grant recipient, sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring and has since emerged.
> 
> A123 was awarded $249 million in Department of Energy grants and has used about half so far to pay for some of the costs of building a factory in Livonia, Mich. It was among the earliest entrants in the field, opening its Michigan battery plant in 2010, and outlining plans for a second U.S. facility.



 They were careful not to make too big a deal out of the Chinese take over and the tax payer grants they were heirs to.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> While we're at it,
> here's another little item some of you sleepy heads may have missed:
> 
> 
> ...



I guessed you missed out on the news about the global market?  Why is this a surprise to you?  Are you saying US based companies were not able to takeover the company?  Was the Chinese company the only company allowed to offer a deal?  Give me something instead of claiming some conspiracy.  The company screwed up and almost went bankrupt.  Did the Chinese make them do that?  You forget one important point. This is not China its the US.  Unless we start voting in foreigners I'm sure are rights are safe. Better yet you could open your own business and compete but my guess is you cant.


----------



## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

ICF International Awarded Estimated US$3M in Federal Grants for Energy Work in China » ICF Intl



> *CF International Awarded Estimated US$3M in Federal Grants for Energy Work in China *





> Fairfax, Virginia, December 16, 2008 -
> 
> ICF Incorporated, LLC, a subsidiary of ICF International (NASDAQ:ICFI), announced today that it won two new federal grants to promote green and efficient buildings in China. The agreements were awarded by two different U.S. government agencies, the U.S. Agency for International Development&#8217;s (USAID) Regional Development Mission for Asia (RDMA) and the Department of State (DOS).





 Skipping a good deal of the legalese, some of these disclaimers remind me of those usage contracts you are asked to click an agreement to for the use of third party software on the internet. 
 How many people do you think read the things for actual content before they click yes?



> .............
> For ICF, particular uncertainties that could adversely or positively affect the Company&#8217;s future results include but are n*ot limited to: risks related to the government contracting industry, *including the timely approval of government budgets, changes in client spending priorities, and the results of government audits and investigations; risks related to our business, including our dependence on contracts with U.S. Federal Government agencies and departments and the State of Louisiana; continued good relations with these and other customers; success in competitive bidding on recompete and new contracts; performance by ICF and its subcontractors under our contract with the State of Louisiana, Office of Community Development, including *but not limited to the risks of failure* to achieve certain levels of program activities, termination, or material modification of the contract, and political uncertainties relating to The Road Home program; uncertainties as to whether revenues corresponding to the Company&#8217;s contract backlog will actually be received; the future of the energy sector of the *global economy*; our ability to attract and retain management and staff; strategic actions, including attempts to expand our service offerings and client base, the ability to make acquisitions, and the performance and future integration of acquired businesses;* risks associated with operations outside the United States,* including but not limited to international, regional, and national economic conditions, including the effects of terrorist activities, war, and currency fluctuations; and other risks and uncertainties disclosed in the Company&#8217;s filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. *These uncertainties may cause ICF&#8217;s actual future results to be materially different than those expressed in the Company&#8217;s forward-looking statements. ICF does not undertake to update its forward-looking statements.*



 But, hey, they're YOUR tax dollars. 

 What do the commies care what happens to them as long as they get to "spread your wealth around"?

 I only wish the Chinese were so compassionate and understanding with the US.


----------



## R.C. Christian (Apr 15, 2014)

Isn't it amazing how you and your people went from Selma, Montgomery etc. to a bunch of statist black assholes once some half breed of theirs got in? It amazes me. Once anti-government and now a compliant band of bruthas once your manchurian candidate and commie asshole stole the show. I liked the angry black mobs fighting against real oppression and not this predictable, statist, colusion with a vile, still mostly white, government, and their hired corporate bitch, Obama.


----------



## Steinlight (Apr 15, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Isn't it amazing how you and your people went from Selma, Montgomery etc. to a bunch of statist black assholes once some half breed of theirs got in? It amazes me. Once anti-government and now a compliant band of bruthas once your manchurian candidate and commie asshole stole the show. I liked the angry black mobs fighting against real oppression and not this predictable, statist, colusion with a vile, still mostly white*(and Jewish)*, government, and their hired corporate bitch, Obama.



Revised it for you.


----------



## holston (Apr 15, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> I guessed you missed out on the news about the *global market*?  Why is this a surprise to you?  Are you saying US based companies were not able to takeover the company?  Was the Chinese company the only company allowed to offer a deal?  Give me something instead of claiming some conspiracy.  The company screwed up and almost went bankrupt.  Did the Chinese make them do that?  You forget one important point. This is not China its the US.  Unless we start voting in foreigners *I'm sure are rights are safe. *Better yet you could open your own business and compete but my guess is you cant.



 Have you checked the US trade deficits lately in your "global market" analysis?
 Guess who's on the short end of the stick there. 

 WE are not voting the foreigners in, our "representatives" in the Zionist Organizational Government are. 

 Your relative unimportance in the grand scheme of things is the only thing that is making you "safe" right now. 

 If you or I were big enough to interfere with the mob bosses and banksters ability to make a buck, believe me you'd be hearing from them. 

 In the mean time you just sit tight and keep your mouth shut and let the people who have requisitioned Uncle Sam's trousers do their thing and no one will get hurt. 

 You've already made it known to everyone just how skeered you are of all those "angry ol' white men". But I doubt if you really believe that they are the ones we really need to be afraid of any more than I do. They're just the ones most likely to roll over and play dead when the Neo-Con talking heads bark. 

 You just don't like it because for once they didn't. 


 I tell you what. If you want to sell your property to the Chinese, be my guest. I have nothing against the Chinese. It's the Chinese government that makes me most uneasy anyway, aside from the fact that not all Chinese are perfect little angels either. 

 But when it comes to our "representatives" wheelin' and dealin' with US Federally owned public lands in order to score big for themselves, then that is another matter. 

 I don't care how much legalese they cloak their activities in or how nicely they try to dress it up. It amounts to a sell out of the US and the US IS NOT FOR SALE, especially at the hands of the Zionist elitists and their Shabbos Goy accomplices. 


 You might want to look into the issues which have developed as a result of the National "Defense " Authorization Act, the "Patriot" Act, the Expatriation Act, and a host of other similar pieces of legislation designed to protect us, from ourselves I can only presume. Look up who sponsored them while your at it, and the people who are standing behind them.

 I don't suppose these things would bother someone who wanted a totalitarian government either unless it was someone who objected to it being a Zionist one.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> > Sig heil!
> ...



Somehow, I suspected that you would know the correct spelling for that....


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> ICF International Awarded Estimated US$3M in Federal Grants for Energy Work in China » ICF Intl
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Youre full of useless information.  What do you propose to do about it?


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 15, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > I guessed you missed out on the news about the *global market*?  Why is this a surprise to you?  Are you saying US based companies were not able to takeover the company?  Was the Chinese company the only company allowed to offer a deal?  Give me something instead of claiming some conspiracy.  The company screwed up and almost went bankrupt.  Did the Chinese make them do that?  You forget one important point. This is not China its the US.  Unless we start voting in foreigners *I'm sure are rights are safe. *Better yet you could open your own business and compete but my guess is you cant.
> ...



I hear a lot of whining but no solutions. You are just a little wussy. If you think this is what is going down why aren't you stopping it?  What is your plan to change this?  You think that the feds calling off the dogs is the end of this? You are more naive than I thought.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> Isn't it amazing how you and your people went from Selma, Montgomery etc. to a bunch of statist black assholes once some half breed of theirs got in? It amazes me. Once anti-government and now a compliant band of bruthas once your manchurian candidate and commie asshole stole the show. I liked the angry black mobs fighting against real oppression and not this predictable, statist, colusion with a vile, still mostly white, government, and their hired corporate bitch, Obama.



Whats amazing is how stupid and misinformed you are.  Black people are not anti-government. They are anti-racist, anti-bigot, and anti-BS.  Dont get confused and think all Black people are compliant. Obama is in office so we know (at least on his watch) nothing is going to go down you fool.  A couple of things have come to light with him in office.  There are other paths illuminated that you less informed inbreds are not aware of.  We still fight corruption but we do it in a smarter, different way.


----------



## holston (Apr 16, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> I hear a lot of whining but no solutions. *You are just a little wussy.* If you think this is what is going down *why aren't you stopping it?  *What is your plan to change this?  You think that the feds calling off the dogs is the end of this? You are more naive than I thought. **



 Patience is not one of your virtues is it?

 Do you think that all I have to do is sit here and field your comments?

 At least the question you ask this time has some merit to it. So I'll try to answer it. 


 The first thing I would do is try to make as many people aware of the side of the story here that the media refuses to reveal. 

 Educating the public is one of the most important things any of us can do. Otherwise all they will be exposed to is what the Jew media offers them, which is little more than tripe and Zionist propaganda thinly veiled as entertainment. 

 Spreading information is important because there is nothing that one person can do alone against a force which controls most of the capital in the US as well as the media. 

 Unless the majority of the public decide that there must be a change, things will continue on their present course. 
 Before the public can decide whether anything needs to be done or what should be done, they need to be informed of ALL the facts concerning an issue, not just those portions which the Zionist media chooses to give them. 


 As you  see, I am doing my small part to aid in this effort despite the attempts of Hasbara and other Socialist agents and provocateurs to prevent it. 
 I've spent a great deal of time and energy in this effort. 

 There are those in higher places who have the wherewithal to effect change which I do not possess. They are also more knowledgeable and have the skills necessary.   
  But these people may not be able to do the things they would like to on behalf of the American people given the power structure they face without support from the majority of people. 

 You have seen that even someone like Ron Paul is limited in his ability to overcome those forces alone. Such a one would stand a far better chance with a mass of screaming supporters standing behind him and daring the powers that be to pull the plug on him as they have in the past on people like Patrick Buchanan or even Ross Perot.  

 Before that can happen, the people need to be as informed on more than the facts which have been spun by the media or omitted altogether. 

 They should not fear the specter of political correctness so much or accusations of "racism"  so much that they are afraid to speak what they actually think and feel rather than what they must in order to avoid being publicly castigated, ostracized or even physically assaulted.  

 Before open expression is possible, in the real public and not just on the internet, the message must be delivered that this kind of oppression will no longer be suffered in silence. 

 There may be many casualties initially of those who dare transgress the Kosher rules of political correctness. But these sacrifices are always necessary before the herd begins to turn. 

 The numbers of those who would be willing to make such a sacrifice are growing by the day. It is only a matter of time until some of them become so fed up that they no longer fear the wrath of the Kosher crowd and socialist thugs, but are even willing to challenge the preeminence of Black domination in it's most physical and primal sense. 

  It's only a matter of ascertaining with unquestionable certainty that one is on the morally right side of the fence before I would make such a commitment. 


 Those ranchers certainly seemed sure enough of themselves. I salute them. It takes quite a bit of nerve to stand in face of the possibility of being shot. 

 In truly Totalitarian forms of Government such as that which exists in Communist China, there would be no doubt about the actions the government would take in such a case. 


 However I will refuse to be tempted into being a part of any action which is immoral or unethical. I have no desire to martyr myself for any cause which the Lord does not require me. 
 Cowardice has nothing to do with those kinds of decisions. I just won't allow myself to be goaded into any rash action by jeers from people such as yourself. 

 The first course of action is to frankly state ones misgivings to his antagonists. This is not easy to do when the person(s) you are forced to confront is known for their treachery, viciousness, dishonesty, and willingness to strike when you are not looking directly at them. 
 Fortunately most of these kinds of people seldom attack unless the odds of winning are overwhelmingly in their favor. 

  I hate to put it so bluntly. But we do not live in a world where everyone always behaves as they should. Crooks, thieves, and liars are seldom amenable to reason. They will do what comes natural to them as long as they are left unchallenged. 

 Eventually the criminal element will take command of everything unless someone along the way with a modicum of integrity and a lot of back bone acts to stop them. This is what police forces and armies are supposed to be about, not enforcing the will of tyrants and megalomaniacs who seek to enrich themselves. 


  I cannot help but suspect that there is already an element of organized crime working within our government which cannot be stopped by diplomacy alone. 
 I am confident that there are plenty of reasonably good people in government, the military, and elsewhere. But they cannot do their job right without the support of the masses to back them up. 



 It is not "the Good Guys" that everyone fears  to speak against . Even children will take advantage of an adult whom they know they can get away with things. It's the bullies that everyone treads lightly around and the skulking dogs who bite when your back is turned that they are most afraid of offending. They know what they are capable of. 
 If there is no one stronger than they are to challenge them, they will rule the roost as they see fit whether anyone disagrees or not. They do not operate on democratic principles. They live by the law of the jungle. 

 There was a time not to long ago that I trusted the forces of our government to be on the side of right. I never feared those forces because I believed that those who were entrusted with the power of the law had the highest and noblest intentions, a genuine desire to discharge the duties of their offices as the law prescribed and the best interest of their constituents at heart. 

  But I haven't forgotten incidents like the Tiananmen Square . And I fear, that left unchecked, the Neo-Con regime will eventually deteriorate into one as malignant as any other in history which has ruled it's people though violence and corruption. 

Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 At the same time I do not think that a government can be any less corrupt than the mass of people it is supposed to over-see. If the people themselves choose wickedness, then they deserve the kind of government that goes with such a society. Is that what you want?

 Therefore I do not believe that the enemies of the Constitutional Republic of the US are all found within the government itself. It's up to the masses of ordinary people to decide the kind of society they wish to live in, whether it's a godless one or not. A godless people shouldn't expect any better from their government. If they can't constrain themselves then the government they have permitted to rule over them most certainly will.


----------



## holston (Apr 16, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Youre full of useless information.  What do you propose to do about it?



 I've given you articles taken from news organizations like Reuters. If you find the information contained within them as worthless then your complaint is with them, not me for commenting on it. 

 Thus far all you have done is defend the works of the present administration and the ZOG establishment which props it up, saying "All's well, there is no need to watch what they are doing. The Marxists in control will take care of everything for us". 

 How much is that worth?


----------



## Meister (Apr 16, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Youre full of useless information.  What do you propose to do about it?
> ...



You can't coach the un-coachable, holston.  Besides, Ace admitted a few pages ago that he was a communist, so you see what you're up against.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 16, 2014)

A libertarian, a NAZI, and a Marxist walk into a bar....


----------



## paulitician (Apr 16, 2014)

Breaking News: This man is a crazed Cult Leader, Child Molester, and Racist. Big Brother now has the green light to murder him and his family. After all, how could anyone support a crazed Cult Leader, Child Molester, and Racist?


----------



## paulitician (Apr 16, 2014)

Mustang said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > SteadyMercury said:
> ...



Give him some more time. This isn't over yet. Like i said, Big Brother wants it all. Try standing in his way. See what happens. You Goose Steppers will wake up someday. But unfortunately, it'll probably be too late. The Country will be gone.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Youre full of useless information.  What do you propose to do about it?
> ...



Why are you giving me articles?  I asked what were _*you*_ going to do about it?  I have my plan in motion already to make sure my interests are taken care of.  Do you?  Talking is not going to do anything. You need some action. You are full of hot air as your type typically are.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 16, 2014)

R.C. Christian said:


> LOL, this thread is sad. I'm sorry you liberal cowards didn't get your 2nd Waco or Ruby Ridge. It is April after all.


 
LOL!

It's YOU and the others on the right who are the ones who long for something akin to a 2nd Waco or a Ruby Ridge if for no other reason than you see it as some kind of a political rallying cry which you can then use as an anti Obama truncheon. You know, like BENGHAZI?  And if and when events don't unfold like you hope, you just exaggerate and or distort the facts to your liking in order to present some image of an Obama administration that's somehow out of control and seizing power and taking away citizens' rights and infringing on our freedoms in some fundamental way that's both unique and unprecedented. Alas, the only people who don't see through this tactic are hyper-partisans and ignorant people who are easily manipulated by such tactics.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 16, 2014)

Sadly, we've gone from "This land is your land, this land is my land", to sleazy Politicians like Harry Reid and Big Brother routinely forcibly stealing the land from the People. When will the People say enough is enough?


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 16, 2014)

paulitician said:


> routinely forcibly stealing the land from the People.


I know dude, stealing their own land from someone who doesn't own it, has never paid property taxes on it, and who's only claim is his family has been in the area since 16 years after the Nevada constitution already ceded it to the Feds.

I think I'll go set build a house in Puuhonua o Honaunau National Park, after all I've got ancestors who lived in the area so the shit must be mine to do with as I please.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 16, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > routinely forcibly stealing the land from the People.
> ...



If you are truly a native Hawaiian, you may very well have that right. This one's just another Big Brother land grab. One day, only the Government and large Corporations will be landowners in this country. I do see that day coming. I mean seriously, what do you really own? With the current Eminent Domain Laws, you and I don't really own anything. What's yours, is Big Brother's. Very sad, but it is what it is. We need change.


----------



## holston (Apr 16, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Why are you giving me articles?  I asked what were _*you*_ going to do about it?  I have my plan in motion already to make sure my interests are taken care of.  Do you?  Talking is not going to do anything. You need some action. You are full of hot air as your type typically are.



  I told you already. You're not listening but hopefully others are. 
 They should know that the stand off in Nevada wasn't about turtles or cows mooching government grass. It was about a couple of our Zionist politicians selling pieces of the US to the Communist Chinese, the comrades in arms of the Neo-Cons and Jewish Supremacists. 

 If the government was worried about public land, they wouldn't have surrendered huge tracts of it to the Mexican drug lords already. 
 Instead they are more concerned about the "rights" of illegal Mexican immigrants. It doesn't matter to them if they trash the property of Texans on their way in. What matters to ZOG is that they all get green cards, drivers licenses, on ObamaCare, and enrolled to vote. 

 That would seem to be your chief concern as well. Or would that be lesbian rights?




 You're _talking _now aren't you? What do you hope to accomplish by that other than expelling your own green house gasses?

 Youskys don't have to do anything. The Jew media and the Zionist Organizational Government is doing it all for you. 

 Some day you may wake up and decide that surrendering your freedom in exchange for "free" peanuts from the government wasn't worth it.


----------



## holston (Apr 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> A libertarian, a NAZI, and a Marxist walk into a bar....



 The Nazi says to the libertarian, "Did you hear the one about the Hasbarat who went on line disguised as John Wayne?" and then the Marxist replied, "Yeah, that was me!"


----------



## joejonbob (Apr 16, 2014)

The aftermath of the BLM's oppression.

Feds accused of leaving trail of wreckage after Nevada ranch standoff | Fox News

Destroying property, and killing live stock.



> On a Friday night conference call, BLM officials told reporters that "illegal structures" on Bundy's ranch -- water tanks, water lines and corrals -- had to be removed to "restore" the land to its natural state and prevent the rancher from restarting his illegal cattle operation.
> 
> However, the court order used to justify the operation appears only to give the agency the authority to "seize and impound" Bundy's cattle.
> 
> "Nowhere in the court order that I saw does it say that they can destroy infrastructure, destroy corrals, tanks ... desert environment, shoot cattle," Houston said.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 16, 2014)

joejonbob said:


> The aftermath of the BLM's oppression.
> 
> Feds accused of leaving trail of wreckage after Nevada ranch standoff | Fox News
> 
> ...



Bundy's ranch? He has title to this land?


----------



## joejonbob (Apr 16, 2014)

Mustang said:


> joejonbob said:
> 
> 
> > The aftermath of the BLM's oppression.
> ...



That is what it says.  Bundy does own 160 acres.  He also owned the two bulls that the BLM offed to "protect their horses".

How do you "seize and impound" a bull that you shoot in the head?  Impounding suggests the possibility of getting something back in a functional condition. In the instance of cattle that would mean living, and in the same health condition as before.  Serious question.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 16, 2014)

wow... So the government spends tens of millions of dollars trying to collect on 1million in grazing fees.  The government spends another million dollars to have a cattle rustler steal bundy's cattle and take them to Utah to sell.  Yeah that money's gone too.  Now the government is saying Bundy will owe them a billion dollars in fines for his 900 head a grazing.  Oh just to make sure he can pay up they KILLED HIS PRIZE BULLS, SHOT HOLES IN HIS WATERING TANKS, BUSTED ALL HIS FENCES.

These BLM and the pols in DC defending them need to be keel hulled, tared and feathered, whipped at the town square, run out of town on a rail, then forced to serve a couple decades on a chain gang.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 16, 2014)

joejonbob said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > joejonbob said:
> ...



No it doesn't. The article refers to 'this land' but doesn't say it's Bundy's property. It also later mentions that "...the cattle were still being held Saturday in temporary pens just a few miles from Bundy's ranch." But like I said, there's no reference to this being Bundy's land.

The whole point is that this dispute is based on this being public land. If it's public land, Bundy has no right to build on it without permission, and even if he does build, it's not legally his property unless he has something in writing which gives him legal ownership. If Bundy built some structure on public land it would be akin to you building something on a vacant lot next to your property. Maybe you could get away with it for years if the rightful owner was unaware or didn't care, but unless you had some kind of prior legal agreement, you wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on later if the owner or a new owner decided to tear down the structure.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Why are you giving me articles?  I asked what were _*you*_ going to do about it?  I have my plan in motion already to make sure my interests are taken care of.  Do you?  Talking is not going to do anything. You need some action. You are full of hot air as your type typically are.
> ...



Sorry guy but i was debating the OP regarding the free loader. You wandered off into the conspiracy theory waters.  I just called you out for the hot air balloon your type typically turns out to be.  Your guess as to what it the issue is about holds no water at all. The facts are the guy was free loading. No matter what cocka mania story you dream up as to the reasons why, he is still a free loader. 

Some day when you start back on your meds you will realize you never had the freedom you claim was lost.  The government will always be the final authority unless you are the government.  I hope I didn't lose you with that revelation.


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 16, 2014)

The dispute is over state land.  The Feds went onto Bundy's private property to destroy the water lines, destroy the corrals and shoot the bulls.  The Bundy home is on the private property owned by his family for 140 years.  Once the feds left what they considered public land and went onto private property to destroy they lost whatever position they had.


----------



## joejonbob (Apr 16, 2014)

Mustang said:


> No it doesn't. The article refers to 'this land' but doesn't say it's Bundy's property. It also later mentions that "...the cattle were still being held Saturday in temporary pens just a few miles from Bundy's ranch." But like I said, there's no reference to this being Bundy's land.
> 
> The whole point is that this dispute is based on this being public land. If it's public land, Bundy has no right to build on it without permission, and even if he does build, it's not legally his property unless he has something in writing which gives him legal ownership. If Bundy built some structure on public land it would be akin to you building something on a vacant lot next to your property. Maybe you could get away with it for years if the rightful owner was unaware or didn't care, but unless you had some kind of prior legal agreement, you wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on later if the owner or a new owner decided to tear down the structure.



It says "Bundy's land".  There are also references to Bundy's water infrastructure and cattle pens. Even if it isn't Bundy's land, for the sake of argument, the BLM didn't have permission to destroy it (the infrastructure).  Again, they had permission to "seize and impound", not "destroy and kill".

It also references Bundy's cattle that were shot.  I see that you didn't acknowledge any of that, wonder why.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The dispute is over state land.  The Feds went onto Bundy's private property to destroy the water lines, destroy the corrals and shoot the bulls.  The Bundy home is on the private property owned by his family for 140 years.  Once the feds left what they considered public land and went onto private property to destroy they lost whatever position they had.



If thats true its only fair and just. He wasted a lot of tax payer dollars fighting this illegally instead of paying for the privilege like the other ranchers do.  Now some of that money can circulate back into the economy via his pocket.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 16, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The dispute is over state land.  The Feds went onto Bundy's private property to destroy the water lines, destroy the corrals and shoot the bulls.  The Bundy home is on the private property owned by his family for 140 years.  Once the feds left what they considered public land and went onto private property to destroy they lost whatever position they had.
> ...



Translation.. stick it to the white guy.


----------



## joejonbob (Apr 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



What is essentially boils down to for most that are defending the feds actions. 

"shake down time"


----------



## Mustang (Apr 16, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The dispute is over state land. The Feds went onto Bundy's private property to destroy the water lines, destroy the corrals and shoot the bulls. The Bundy home is on the private property owned by his family for 140 years. Once the feds left what they considered public land and went onto private property to destroy they lost whatever position they had.


 
If Bundy can prove that any structures destroyed were on his property, then he has a legal case, and I would take his side in such a case. My guess is that's not what happened. My bet is that the structures were on state or federal land, and Bundy had put them up to facilitate his operation since he spent so much time using the land and doing so made everything so much easier as far as his cattle operation was concerned. But it could also be an honest mistake on either side if the property line is not clearly marked or defined.

But from everything I've read, Bundy has a LONG history of thumbing his nose at any legal authority that issues rulings he doesn't like. When you combine that fact with the fact that Bundy has come to have a proprietary feeling about the land, it's not surprising that he acts the way he does. That doesn't mean that he has a legal leg to stand on. My advice to the Bundy family is to drive into town to see a lawyer and take any and all supporting legal documentation with them at that time. While there, make sure the documents are recorded at the County Clerk's office. Barring any legal right that Bundy may have that's otherwise not been reported up to this point, Bundy is a fool if he thinks he can manipulate public opinion to such an extent that it will trump the legal ownership of either the state of Nevada or the Federal Gov't, or any other individual as far as that goes. But he may be one of those nutty people who's willing to cut off his nose to spite his face. I suppose that's another example of the definition of freedom. It's the freedom to be a dope.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Get another translator.  Stick it to the freeloader no matter what color he is.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 16, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



How about we start with collecting from the Obama clan and leave the guy who's actually producing product alone.


----------



## holston (Apr 16, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Sorry guy but i was debating the OP regarding the free loader. You wandered off into the conspiracy theory waters.  I just called you out for the hot air balloon your type typically turns out to be.  Your guess as to what it the issue is about holds no water at all. The facts are the guy was free loading. No matter what cocka mania story you dream up as to the reasons why, he is still a free loader.
> 
> Some day when you start back on your meds you will realize you never had the freedom you claim was lost.  The government will always be the final authority unless you are the government.  I hope I didn't lose you with that revelation.




http://www.texasbordervolunteers.org/Illegal%20Alien%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

 While you have your panties in wad over the grass mooching cows, here's something else for you to think about:

 Illegal Immigration Crisis Fact Sheet
Criminal Crisis
1.
In recent crackdowns on child molesters, authorities discovered that 85 percent of child molesters were foreign nationals; 40% of these are illegal immigrants.
2. 95 percent of all outstanding homicide warrants in Los Angeles (first half of 2004) were for illegals.
3.Each day, approximately 93 sex offenders and 12 serial sex offenders cross the US border.
Economic Crisis
1.Illegal immigrants sent 23 billion dollars to Mexico in 2006 alone.
2.The average family
supported by low-skilled labor draws $22,449 more in benefits annually than
they contribute.
3.In Los Angeles County alone, roughly two million illegal aliens use the emergency room because they cant afford a doctor.

4.A recent survey of patients indicated that 70 percent of the women who gave birth at ParklandHospital in Dallas in the first three months of 2006 were illegal immigrants.
Environmental Crisis
1.Illegals trespassing on private ranches cut and damage fences, endangering livestock and causing financial loss to ranchers. They destroy water sources, etch damaging trails, and leave vast amounts of garbage and human waste in their wake.
2.Wildfires are being set by drug and human smugglers as a diversion to BP agents in some of the counties most pristine  national forests, notably Coronado National Forest in Arizona.
3.As the illegal immigrant population grows unchecked, it will increasingly tax environmental resources, and conditions within United States cities will continue to deteriorate.
Medical Crisis
1.Illegals enter our country with absolutely no medical screening for communicable diseases that pose severe public health threats.
2.In the U.S., cases of Leprosy rose drastically, from 900 documented cases in 40 years to 7,000cases in 3 years. Most of these new cases are illegal immigrants.
3.Chagas disease, for which no cure exists, kills 50,000 people annually in Latin America.
Americans are now at risk for this disease from blood transfusions and organ transplants.
4.Tuberculosis, largely eliminated from America in the past, is being imported through illegals inthe form of Multi-Drug Resistant Tuberculosis.
5.MDR-TB kills 60 percent of its victims. Additionally, MDR-TB is far more difficult to treat,
requiring $250,000 in drugs and 24 months of treatment versus $2,000 in drugs and 6 months forregular Tuberculosis.
6.Each illegal infected with MDR-TB can infect 10 to 30 people.
Terror Crisis
1.The Census Bureau estimates that about 115,000 people from the Middle East are in the UnitedStates illegally.
2.In the last three years , the number of OTMs Other Than Mexican apprehended entering the country illegally  rose more than 400 percent.
3.Three of the men responsible for planning attacks on Fort Dix are illegal aliens.
4.Of 900 companies audited since 2003 having links to nationally security, nearly
thirty percentwere employing illegal workers


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Collecting what?  I dont like beef all that much so I could care less what product he is producing.  I just dont want him producing it without paying operating costs like everyone else.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry guy but i was debating the OP regarding the free loader. You wandered off into the conspiracy theory waters.  I just called you out for the hot air balloon your type typically turns out to be.  Your guess as to what it the issue is about holds no water at all. The facts are the guy was free loading. No matter what cocka mania story you dream up as to the reasons why, he is still a free loader.
> ...



Is this supposed to make me ignore the OP?  Sorry it doesn't work. The guy is a freeloader that will be handled in due time.


----------



## holston (Apr 16, 2014)

A cost comparison analysis might help determine which issue is of greatest importance. 

Cost of Illegal Immigration and Amnesty Could Be Higher



> * Cost of Illegal Immigration and Amnesty Could Be Higher*



Hmm. Could be. 

 American taxpayers cannot afford the cost of amnesty.



> The cost of illegal immigration and amnesty could amount to $6.3 trillion, which would fall on American taxpayers over the long term, according to a Heritage Foundation analysis. As Heritage showed, the majority of illegal immigrants receiving amnesty would receive far more in taxpayer-funded benefits than they would pay in taxes. Even critics of the Heritage study admit amnesty will cost trillions of dollars. Whether it is $4 trillion, $6 trillion or more, the additional costs to the U.S. taxpayer are still too high.



 6.3 TRILLION $ you say?



> *If the number of illegal immigrants is actually 20 percent greater than the 11.5 million assumed *in the Heritage analysis, the long-term fiscal cost of amnesty would increase proportionately, *adding perhaps $1.2 trillion to the lifetime fiscal deficit*.





Federal roundup of ?trespass cattle? could cost at least $1 million | Las Vegas Review-Journal


> *
> Federal roundup of &#8216;trespass cattle&#8217; could cost at least $1 million*





> Cannon said Bundy racked up *$292,601*.50 in *trespass and administrative fees* through September 2011, and his bill since then is still being added up.
> 
> Had the rancher agreed to reduce his herd to 150 cattle on the Bunkerville allotment 20 years ago and kept paying his monthly grazing fees of $1.86 per head, he would have paid the BLM $66,960.





> The rancher has been locking horns with the government since 1993, when federal range managers told him he could only keep 150 cattle on the 158,666-acre Bunkerville grazing allotment *out of concern for the federally protected desert tortoise.*
> 
> To protest the change,* Bundy stopped paying monthly grazing fees of $1.86 per animal*, but kept using the allotment. He said he didn&#8217;t see the point in paying the BLM to run him out of business, so he &#8220;fired&#8221; the agency.
> 
> The bureau responded by canceling his grazing permit in 1994, but *his livestock kept living off the public land his family has used since 1877*.




Bulleted Bundy Story ? A Tale of Stolen Cattle, Safe Tortoises, Lost Liberty, Wasted Sovereignty | Maggie's Notebook


> Bundy protested by refusing to pay his grazing fees, while his cattle continued to grazed. *Government sources say Bundy owes $1 million for overdue grazing;* *Bundy believes he owes about $300,000.* Fees are charged at *$1.35 per &#8220;Animal Unit Month,&#8221; or the amount of forage (food) the government believes a Bundy cow needs.*




Arizona Park Surrendered to Mexican Cartels | Border Issues: Mexico


> *Arizona Park Surrendered to Mexican Cartels
> 
> About 3,500 acres of southern Arizona have been closed off to U.S. citizens due to increased violence at the U.S.-Mexico border, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.*





> The refuge had been adversely affected by the increase in drug smugglers, illegal activity and surveillance, which made it dangerous for Americans to visit.
> 
> &#8220;The situation in this zone has reached a point where continued public use of the area is not prudent,&#8221; said refuge manager Mitch Ellis.





> U.S. Fish and Wildlife officials have warned visitors in Arizona to beware of heavily armed drug smugglers and human traffickers.
> 
> 
> > &#8220;We need support from the federal government. It&#8217;s their job to secure the border and they haven&#8217;t done it,&#8221; said Babeu. &#8220;In fact, President Obama suspended the construction of the fence and it&#8217;s just simply outrageous.&#8221;
> ...




  Let's see. Yomammi administration spends a MILLION dollars hassling US cattle rancher over $300.000 worth grass. 

*The cows happen to be roaming on land that Senator Harry Reid's son wants to sell to the communist Chinese for $5 MILLION when the land is appraised at $36 MILLION but that doesn't have a damned thing to do with it! *

 Yommami sends the Chinese BLM to threaten a Nevada rancher while surrendering 3,500 acres of public land in Arizona. 

 Yommami refuses to enforce Federal immigration laws. 

 Arizona decides to so Yomammi sues Arizona for trying to do the job that the Feds are supposed to be doing but won't.

https://www.19th-century-us-history.com/defend-or-protect.shtml



> As everyone must curtainly now know, the United States Department of Justice is filed a civil action (law suit) asking for an injunction against Arizona S.B. 1070, the Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act.



http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20100604/OPINION02/6030352/Arizona-right-to-defend-border


> *Olivia Turner, executive director of the ACLU of Alabama, opines that Arizona's new law is nothing more than racial profiling* and unconstitutional. Which constitution does she refer to?
> 
> The Constitution of the United States protects the rights of legal citizens. It does not extend these rights to citizens of another country who unlawfully and illegally breach our borders.
> 
> In fact, the Constitution states that Congress shall provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.




 In addition to the MILLION paid to Harry Reids Chinese BLM forces who are fighting in behalf of the desert turtles, we can add an estimated 6 or 7 TRILLION dollars of debt due to the influx of illegal Mexicans which Yomammi is determined to allow into the US whether the "racist angry white men" like it or not. 

 Yomammi sues Arizona for trying to stop the drug lords of Mexico from importing their prostitution rings, MS 13 gang bangers, Montezuma's Revenge, and Flag waving La Raza waging the Reconquista. 

 So which of these problems requires the most urgent attention in the minds of the Libtards?

 You guessed it, flatulent grass mooching cows who have brazenly ROBBED King Yomammi of $300, 000.

 It isn't that the Neo-Cons mideastern crusades for greater Israel and the coming Mashianic age costs more. It isn't that the US is 17 TRILLION in debt thanks to the Jew operated IMF, Federal Reserve, and Wal Street banditos. 

 It's the PRINCIPLE of the thing. 

 This FREELOADING cattle rancher needs to be rounded up and sent to a FEMA camp for reeducation and forced to pay off his million dollar grass bill. 

 God's in his heaven and all's right with the world,


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

holston said:


> A cost comparison analysis might help determine which issue is of greatest importance.
> 
> Cost of Illegal Immigration and Amnesty Could Be Higher
> 
> ...



On this thread the OP is more significant. If I wanted speak about illegal immigration I would found that thread retard.


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## holston (Apr 16, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> On this thread the OP is more significant. If I wanted speak about illegal immigration I would found that thread retard.



 Then you do agree that the timing of the BLM assault had more to do with the Reid/China deal than with freeloading cows?

 And you agree that it is somewhat incongruous to send armed men acting more on behalf of Reid and his Chinese business associates to threaten a rancher who is standing in the way of a lucrative deal when the Mexican drug cartels are occupying 36,000 acres of public land in Arizona?

 Can you not see the inconsistency in the way the laws are being selectively enforced?

 Can you not see why some of us would insist that they back off of picking on productive US citizens when they won't raise a hand to enforce the law elsewhere?
 ... and when they prohibit states from enforcing laws that the multiculturalist Marxists in Washington don't want enforced?
 .... and when they make such a big deal about how much grass his cows are consuming when they don't give a second thought about hitting the natural citizens of the US to pay for healthcare and other amenities for illegals who openly declare their allegiance to the country they are fleeing from, and their intent on retaking the land they are entering?

 Can you not see why this ordeal might gripe the craw of some Americans who would prefer that the US remain demographically unchanged and that it's representatives should pay more attention to the wishes of those whom they are supposed to represent rather than to foreign entities?

 You can't see what any of this has to do with why some of us might object to Yomammi sicking one of his goon squads on a single rancher when the Mexican gangs are introducing kidnapping, drugs, and prostitution into neighboring states?




 And you would agree that raising a stink over grazing fees which is more expensive than what was owed in the first place doesn't make good economic sense?

 It just puzzles me why you would be so hell bent on extracting such a paltry sum of money from an "old white man" who happens to be producing something when the country is 17 TRILLION in debt and the people are being robbed blind by the countries financial institutions for the sake of empire building and another little crap hole of a country who constantly spies on us, steals from us, and sells us out to potential foes. 


 It's funny that you should mention the word "retard" because that is exactly the word I had in mind to describe you.

 If YOU PEOPLE want "equality" in justice, then you rightly ought to allow the "angry old white men" to break as many laws as you do your King and the 68,000 law breaking Mexicans he recently released from jail. 

 How about you libtards giving the "angry old white man" a little amnesty?


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 16, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > On this thread the OP is more significant. If I wanted speak about illegal immigration I would found that thread retard.
> ...



You are seeking agreement where you are not going to find it.  The rancher is a freeloader.  There is no way around it. What part of that is confusing you?


----------



## OnePercenter (Apr 17, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > On this thread the OP is more significant. If I wanted speak about illegal immigration I would found that thread retard.
> ...



The multimillionaire needs to pay his bills!


----------



## Meister (Apr 17, 2014)

OnePercenter said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



I agree, but this is more than just paying the bills......this is politics at its worst.
Reid wants this guy gone, plain and simple.  It's not about the money and it never was.


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## hangover (Apr 17, 2014)

Bundy must be a Hindu that believes cattle are sacred. Are the other 16,000 ranchers now going to refuse to pay grazing fees? And are cons now going to refuse to pay their taxes? Maybe the poor should refuse to pay for rent and food. If cons think everything is free, then it's free for everyone. Grocery stores should give everything for free. Gas should be free too. And why should we have to pay for license plates, or inspections?
Cons sure do love communism.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 17, 2014)

hangover said:


> Bundy must be a Hindu that believes cattle are sacred. Are the other 16,000 ranchers now going to refuse to pay grazing fees? And are cons now going to refuse to pay their taxes? Maybe the poor should refuse to pay for rent and food. If cons think everything is free, then it's free for everyone. Grocery stores should give everything for free. Gas should be free too. And why should we have to pay for license plates, or inspections?
> Cons sure do love communism.



Yeah cause a cow eating a blade of dry grass in the desert is the same as a drunk walking booze out the front door of a liquor store without paying.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 17, 2014)

Meister said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > holston said:
> ...



It's about both. Dirty Harry chose the cash and China over his fellow American. He's a piece of shit. Period, end of story.


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Apr 17, 2014)

Filthy Dirty Harry....

Bundy has no legal case.....but he sure has a moral one....standing up against tyranny....


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## holston (Apr 17, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> You are seeking agreement where you are not going to find it.  The rancher is a freeloader.  There is no way around it. What part of that is confusing you?



 I didn't expect you to agree. I just wanted to use the occasion to once again point out the way our ZOG government is operating right now. This is a far greater problem than freeloading cows. 

 You eat hamburgers and drink milk don't you? Then there is the shoe leather they provide. The drug dealers from Mexico aren't peddling anything but more destruction. What's more they are importing the same kind of violence that many of the regular Mexicans are running away from. 

 But Yomamma and his Marxist and opportunistic Shabbos Goy cronies aren't interested in that. 
 They don't care too much about the 36,000 acres of public land in Arizona that the Drug Cartels have hijacked for the Reconquista. 

 And they don't want the state of Arizona and Texas to stop illegal Mexicans from pouring in. Do you know why? 
 It's because the Zionist Jews want to Balkanize the US. It makes it easier for the Jewish Union to seize power with a fragmented population and a centralized government. Their banksters and bureaucrats have stolen the money they need to buy off a sufficient number of stooges. *It's just a matter of bullying the states to surrender any autonomy they have left, Federalize the State Guards, and confiscate all the weapons from people like Bundy and the deal will be sealed. *

 Viewed in this light I don't care if Bundy's cows eat all the grass in Nevada and never pay a dime. YomommaCare for illegals is going to cost enough. 

 People need to look at the broader picture rather than focusing so much on minutia and the irrelevant topics that the Jew media distracts them with. While they are blabbing about some Hollywood trollop showing her rear end, the Neo-Cons and other Zionists are busy conducting their ongoing coup of the US government. 

 The bigger issue in the Bundy affair has to do with the way that our "representatives" are using their positions to enrich themselves while their Zionist colleagues are consolidating their power. 


 The fact that the IRS has selected conservative minded people to scrutinize ought to tell you something. 
 Do you think the way they've tried to manhandle Bundy is totally unrelated to the favoritism that the ZIO establishment shows to statists and the deference which are Jew dominated Supreme court pays to "liberal issues"?

 I know you came here only to beat up on "angry old white men" who won't pay "their fair share", especially the "rich ones". It doesn't seem to bother you too much that Reid and son were trying to get rich off of US public lands or that the way in which they were doing so would give the Communist Chinese  an even larger land base in the US to add to that which they have already acquired. That's  in addition to the massive debt "OUR" Congress has allowed the Chinese to hold over our heads. 

 You're looking at the Bundy issue with tunnel vision like a host of other hopheads who think that the answer to all the world's problems is to confiscate all the wealth and distribute it evenly across the globe. In other words, you approve of our Governments relentless assaults on white middle class and Christian America because you are a Communist yourself. 

 I knew which point you preferred to argue and why when I came here. I didn't intend to try and persuade the dopeheads and perverts of anything. I know it can't be done. 
 But I can add my voice to the growing numbers of those middle class white Americans and "angry old white men" who are tired of ZOG ramming their Marxist Zionist agenda down their throats and their ongoing campaign to reduce the US to the status of a third world country just so a tiny fraction of the world can usher in their glorious Mashianic Age. 

 There is a broader picture that needs looking at which can only be seen by taking a bird's eye view of the entire landscape. 
 To do so one can not allow his vision to be restricted only to what is immediately placed before him either in time or space. 
 In other words the pattern only appears when you take this episode in juxtaposition to a thousand others like it ranging back over decades. 
 You can't stare at a blade of grass and see the motion of it's growth. 
 And you can't see a forest if you only look at one tree at a time. 

 Politicians depend on the myopic vision and short term memories of voters. Likewise the "long march" of Socialism in order to cover the tracks of it's troops who have been steadily PROGRESSING over DECADES rather than days. 

 The Bundy conflict is only symptomatic of a much more pervasive and pernicious problem. 
 Watching interracial couples bump and grind on TV is only a small part of it. 

Christian's, Jews and Catholics Are Terrorist - A Warning From Law Enforcement Re; Homeland Security - Tea Party Command Center


> US Christians, Catholics, Jews, and Mormons were listed as terrorist in a US Army presentation LAST THURSDAY & a Colorado Undersheriff is warning us about Homeland Security.
> 
> &#8220;The Defense Department came under fire Thursday for a U.S. Army Reserve presentation that classified Catholics and Evangelical Protestants as &#8220;extremist&#8221; religious groups alongside al Qaeda and the Ku Klux Klan.&#8221; Source: The Washington Times
> 
> ...





> *This is all part of an indoctrination that is happening right before our eyes under a Commander in Chief who created an environment that encourages this type of behavior.*
> 
> 
> If you wish to state that Christian&#8217;s are not being targeted, than explain this;
> ...






 Would you guess that this list would include or exclude people like Bundy?

 What about the  COMMUNIST Chinese who will be setting up shop once they acquire US lands?
 Could THEY be potential terrorists? 
 Or what about the thousands of illegals crossing our boarders unhindered every day, could any of them be? 
 Never mind the fact that they are TRESPASSING on PRIVATE property and trashing it in the process. 
 Bundy's TRESPASSING cows was one of the big issues with you wasn't it?

 Or were you more upset about the taxes?

Rangel Didn't Pay Taxes on Dominican Villa - Chief of tax-writing panel fails to report $75,000 in income


> * Rep. Charles Range*l, chairman of the* tax-code*-writing Ways and Means Committee, failed to report *more than $75,000 *in rental income from a Dominican villa he purchased in 1988, the New York Times reports.



» Don?t Wanna Pay Taxes? Run For Congress! Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!



> So let&#8217;s see:* Charlie Rangel doesn&#8217;t* have to pay his taxes, and new *Treasury Secretary (and head of the IRS) Timothy Geithner doesn&#8217;t have to pay his taxes.* So why should Tom &#8220;Puff&#8221; Daschle have to pay his taxes?





> Wow, I mean if these fine, upstanding men support Daschle, who are we to argue? /snark. Well, in fairness, Daschle stated that he was &#8220;deeply embarrassed&#8221; about &#8220;the error,&#8221; so there&#8217;s no problem. Confirm away!
> 
> First of all, *he is only deeply embarrassed because he got caught.* Second of all, *not paying your taxes &#8211; until you are asked to be part of a POTUS Cabinet &#8211; is not an error. *It is criminally negligent.
> 
> *Should we be worried that President Obama has nominated two tax cheats for Cabinet positions?*



 Not the libbers. They're more worried about farting grass mooching cows that belong to "angry old white men".

 None of these topics I have mentioned should be put in a vacuum. If they appear "all over the map, that's because they ARE, the US AND Global map! 
 That's why it is urgent that they all be interpreted each one in the light of the others.


----------



## peach174 (Apr 17, 2014)

To some on the left in here, it seems that Rosa should just shut up and keep sitting in the back of the bus.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 17, 2014)

peach174 said:


> To some on the left in here, it seems that Rosa should just shut up and keep sitting in the back of the bus.



Ayup... Guy's a cowboy.. democrats hate cowboys almost as much as they hated blacks in the 60s, this of course before they decided they needed to buy the black vote to win elections.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 17, 2014)

ScreamingEagle said:


> Filthy Dirty Harry....
> 
> Bundy has no legal case.....but he sure has a moral one....standing up against tyranny....



Robert Lawrence didn't have a case until Lawrence v. Texas.  The Griswalds were breaking the law until Griswald v. Connecticut.   Rosa Parks didn't even have a legal leg to stand on.  The law was against her.  

The law is wrong.  It needs to be changed.   The BLM has taken too much land under the guise of ridiculous laws.   

Why did this go on for 20 years?   Because for the past 20 years, Harry Reid wasn't making a land deal with the Chinese.


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## paulitician (Apr 17, 2014)

It was good to see Dirty Harry Reid's Henchmen get their asses kicked. But it's likely only a temporary ass-kicking. I'm afraid they'll be back. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. Hopefully, the People will continue coming to this man's defense. If the People stand together, they can win. People from all over the Country need to head to Nevada and stand with this man and his family. There is strength in numbers. We all have to stick together during these dark times.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 17, 2014)

paulitician said:


> It was good to see Dirty Harry Reid's Henchmen get their asses kicked. But it's likely only a temporary ass-kicking. I'm afraid they'll be back. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. Hopefully, the People will continue coming to this man's defense. If the People stand together, they can win. People from all over the Country need to head to Nevada and stand with this man and his family. There is strength in numbers. We all have to stick together during these dark times.



Big brother has unlimited resources. Hard to fight that.  60 rancher gave up... ranchers are not the type to just up and quit normally. But I suppose when your country is the one fighting you just don't have much choice, you can go rebel and be seen as a criminal or you can back down and find something else to do for a living.  Course you'll probably find government coming to destroy that job next.


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## paulitician (Apr 17, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > It was good to see Dirty Harry Reid's Henchmen get their asses kicked. But it's likely only a temporary ass-kicking. I'm afraid they'll be back. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. Hopefully, the People will continue coming to this man's defense. If the People stand together, they can win. People from all over the Country need to head to Nevada and stand with this man and his family. There is strength in numbers. We all have to stick together during these dark times.
> ...



Well, i try to be optimistic. If the People stick together, they can win. But i do hear what you're saying. All those who have helped this man, have been photographed and will now be classified as 'Terrorists.' I fear for their lives as well. But we still have to stick together. There is strength in numbers.


----------



## holston (Apr 17, 2014)

paulitician said:


> It was good to see Dirty Harry Reid's Henchmen get their asses kicked. But it's likely only a temporary ass-kicking. *I'm afraid they'll be back.* Big Brother doesn't like to lose. Hopefully, the People will continue coming to this man's defense. If the People stand together, they can win. People from all over the Country need to head to Nevada and stand with this man and his family. There is strength in numbers. We all have to stick together during these dark times.



 Marxists have been in the US and working steadily for almost a century. 
 Like Zebra, they will never change their stripes. 
 The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance. 

 They on the other hand simply bide their time, like a spider patiently awaiting it's next meal. 
 And when the prey stumbles into the web, the spider gingerly dances around any defensive jaws or stingers which may be present, allowing the struggling victim to entangle itself until, first one foot and then the other can be secured. 

 In the case of the US, the propaganda campaign has been slow but inexorable. 
It's comparable to the liberties which TV and movies have taken towards open licentiousness. 
 They begin with a little at first. At the first sign of protest they may retract slightly, but only enough to avoid detection. As soon as any clamor dies down, they resume the insertion. 
 Once the crack has been widened even ever so slightly, enough time is allowed to acclimate the client to her new position. Then the forward motion resumes. 

 Inch by inch, day by day, the process of approach, invade, and consolidate continues. 

 I remember reading an article about the advance of Fireants from South America. It still amazes me how these tiny creatures which can scarcely be distinguished from piss ants, could travel such a long distance so quickly merely by the process of building first one network of tunnels and then another. One day you wake up and they are a constant problem which requires you to dump loads of toxic pesticides on your yard everyday just to keep them off of you and out of your house. 

 It's only when one reviews a large enough segment of our past history that the "progress" of PROGRESSIVISM is seen. The motion and direction in which it is tending is then observable as if being viewed through time lapsed photography. 

 This is why I can't simply be asked to look at nothing but Bundy's delinquent grazing fee bill and ignore the snipers and machine gunners who were sent to collect payment.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 17, 2014)

paulitician said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Or... we could just stop working above the table and let the moocher class eat grass.


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## peach174 (Apr 17, 2014)

Whenever our Government can own more that 25 to 50% of a States land that becomes a Civil Rights violation of the States Citizens.
I don't understand why some on the left in here can not see this.
Our Federal Government owns most of the western united states and that is a violation to the U.S. Constitution.


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## peach174 (Apr 17, 2014)

politician said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > politician said:
> ...



I hope the people continue this fight and goes to Texas & Oklahoma to fight what the BLM is doing there also about the Red River.
Oklahoma Texas: Battle at the Red River ? How BLM Gives and Takes Away | Opinion - Conservative
I bet you that it also has something to do with another Politician getting rich over this deal too.

This one is about oil not tortoises 
Texas landowners want the state to survey the 440-mile river and define its bank as the state border. Texas officials say they will pay for the survey - at an estimated cost of $5 million - only if the federal government gives the state oil leasing rights to part of the riverbed.
Corruption is in both parties, we all need to get them voted out.


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## paulitician (Apr 17, 2014)

I don't believe the Court Order allowed for this. The BLM will be held accountable. 

Report: BLM Feds Slaughtered Cattle During Bundy Siege

Federal agency could face charges for abuse of animals


Photo evidence suggests BLM federal agents shot cattle dead during actions targeting Cliven Bundy, a clear violation of a court order which could see the federal agency and those it hired to carry out the operation face criminal charges.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 17, 2014)

paulitician said:


> I don't believe the Court Order allowed for this. The BLM will be held accountable.
> 
> Report: BLM Feds Slaughtered Cattle During Bundy Siege
> 
> ...



If Bush was the president when this happened the libs would be calling for his impeachment about now.


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## Asclepias (Apr 17, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe the Court Order allowed for this. The BLM will be held accountable.
> ...



Why?  Did the POTUS shoot the cows or give the order to shoot the cows?  How do you know the free loading rancher is not playing you guys even more by shooting some of his cows?


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## RKMBrown (Apr 17, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...


I'd like to give a shout out to this Obama water carrier for providing a perfect example of my point.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 17, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Pretty good ploy for avoiding the questions I posed.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 17, 2014)

Big Brother wants it all. Sadly, i see a day when only Government and large Corporations own the land. Think it's so far-fetched? You should think again.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 17, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Big Brother wants it all. Sadly, i see a day when only Government and large Corporations own the land. Think it's so far-fetched? You should think again.



They already do own the land. You are just unaware you are renting.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 17, 2014)

Everywhere you turn, Government is there harassing and stealing. What a sad Country we've become. When will the People say enough is enough?


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 17, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Everywhere you turn, Government is there harassing and stealing. What a sad Country we've become. When will the People say enough is enough?




When they learn to stop catering to the 2 party system.  When they stop thinking politics is a team sport and they are the fans.


----------



## BlindBoo (Apr 17, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe the Court Order allowed for this. The BLM will be held accountable.
> ...



Over a cow?  Not likely cowboy.  I mean the link below shows a small number of what happened because of Bushes decision in invade and occupy Iraq.  What did the Democratic majority leader say about impeachment?????

Iraq: The unseen war - Salon.com


----------



## peach174 (Apr 18, 2014)

BlindBoo said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Occupy Iraq?
Are they now the 51st State?
Since when did Bush and Obama become their President?


----------



## Meister (Apr 18, 2014)

After giving this event much thought, it occurred to me that if Bundy had been a staunch Obama/Reid supporter, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  The incident would never have occurred.  Cattle on the land wouldn't have been an issue.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 18, 2014)

Meister said:


> After giving this event much thought, it occurred to me that if Bundy had been a staunch Obama/Reid supporter, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  The incident would never have occurred.  Cattle on the land wouldn't have been an issue.



Go back and give it some more thought. Sounds like you need more than 2 seconds.


----------



## Synthaholic (Apr 18, 2014)

Lovebears65 said:


> BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> 
> 
> > Weve seen before at Ruby Ridge and Waco that the feds wont hesitate to treat peaceful American citizens as hostile and confront them with full armed force.  This is happening yet again in Clark County, Nevada.
> ...



The police are militarized across the country and have been for 20 years.  Thanks for finally noticing.

Why do you support pedophiles and criminals?


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 18, 2014)

I happen to know for a fact that the cow in question was killed by a disgruntled desert tortoise.


----------



## Meister (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > After giving this event much thought, it occurred to me that if Bundy had been a staunch Obama/Reid supporter, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  The incident would never have occurred.  Cattle on the land wouldn't have been an issue.
> ...



That's all you got?


----------



## SteadyMercury (Apr 18, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Photo evidence suggests BLM federal agents shot cattle dead during actions targeting Cliven Bundy


A picture of a dead cow is evidence? That could be any dead cow.

Because infowars told you so right?


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 18, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Thats all you had and thats all I need. Your comment was retarded. Doesnt matter the political affiliation. Bundy is a wealthy free loader.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 18, 2014)

SteadyMercury said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Photo evidence suggests BLM federal agents shot cattle dead during actions targeting Cliven Bundy
> ...




I wonder how you can tell by looking at a picture the BLM shot the cow and not Bundy trying to drum up more support?  As a matter of fact how can you tell its even one of his cows?


----------



## Meister (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



This has everything to do with politics, son. Just because you're not "bright" enough to admit it is your issue.  You have no room to be talking about retarded to anyone.


----------



## tinydancer (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Big Brother wants it all. Sadly, i see a day when only Government and large Corporations own the land. Think it's so far-fetched? You should think again.
> ...



Bundy does not recognize the seizure of the land. And he is not alone.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 18, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



No it doesn't retard.  I just told you it matters not one iota what the party affiliation is. The Bundy guy is a free loader. I dont care who he voted for.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Who told Bundy he gets to determine if the Nevada State Constitution is right or wrong?


----------



## Katzndogz (Apr 18, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Millions of Americans are ready to not recognize government seizure of private property.  Those BLM agents weren't there to reclaim public land.  They were there to destroy Bundy's entire ranch including his home.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 18, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Sounds like millions of americans dont like the 5th amendment which is fine with me.  Who told you the BLM was there to destroy Bundys ranch?  Is there a link to this news story?


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Libtard thinks regulations enforced by a bureaucratic organization of an elected government has nothing to do with politics. ROFL and the dumb ass of the year award goes to Asclepias!


----------



## Meister (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



This isn't about what you care or don't care about.  This is about Reid and what he cares about.  If Bundy had been a supporter of Obama/Reid, Reid wouldn't have pursued this issue.  true story....
Now if you want to be the "retard" (your word) feel free to be the retard, ace.

I'm glad you admitted that you were a communist in another thread, you're much more palpable knowing that, son.  I know what I'm dealing with and it isn't just some dem. leftwing nut.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Who told Bundy he does not get to determine if the Nevada State Constitution is right or wrong?


----------



## 9thIDdoc (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



So's Obama.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...


 
That dead cow means there's one less witness. This is the beginning of the coverup.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 18, 2014)

Mustang said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...




That ground looks like its in Texas. This is an obvious cover up.


----------



## holston (Apr 18, 2014)

While the BLM is harassing a Nevada rancher on behalf of Harry Reid and his Communist business associates:

 [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXhtYQGW1hA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXhtYQGW1hA[/ame]


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 18, 2014)

What we need is amnesty for working citizens that are victims of our thousands of government agencies. This government is backasswards.  Attack the working class, reward the criminals and the lazy good for nothings.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 18, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


 
Just watch. More cows may start to disappear. Some people might think they've been taking to a slaughterhouse. Others might think they've been abuducted by aliens. But true patriots will know that they're being kept incomunicado in a FEMA camp somewhere. When they're finally found, they'll be returned to their ancestral home in Nevada.

Their rallying cry should be: Remember the cattle!!! 

(FYI: I'm referring to the four-legged beef cattle and not the conservative cattle who are being manipulated by people like Bundy in order to push their own personal agendas)


----------



## oldfart (Apr 18, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Lovebears65 said:
> 
> 
> > BREAKING: 200+ "Militarized" Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada
> ...



Perhaps normal police procedure would be more effective if scumbag Bundy didn't surround himself with an armed mob.  Last time I read my history George Washington solved this kind of problem by saddling up a horse, calling out the army, threating to hang every traitor, and the tax-dodging rebellion went away.  

NEWS FLASH:  Bundy does not own the land.  Personally I would have ended it by putting up a couple of gunships and mowing down all of his cattle.  He could then try to sue the government for his lost property he illegally placed on federal land he refused to pay grazing fees for.  Ever hear of criminal trespass?  

Note that all the ranching and cattlemen's associations are staying away from Bundy. As loyal Americans they pay for the federal lands they use.  They also realize that if Bundy gets away with this shit, the most likely outcome is that public lands will be closed to grazing by anyone.  Eliminating the rape of national resources  by unscrupulous ranchers, mining companies, water barons, and timber companies plays pretty well with the citizens paying for it.  

But never let it be said that right-wing moochers ever failed to rally behind con men and tax dodgers ripping off honest Americans!  That's what passes for patriotism these days on the Right.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 18, 2014)

How do we know that the cow is dead? maybe she is just a good actress...


----------



## holston (Apr 19, 2014)

oldfart said:


> Perhaps normal police procedure would be more effective if scumbag Bundy didn't surround himself with an armed mob.  Last time I read my history George Washington solved this kind of problem by saddling up a horse, calling out the army, threating to hang every traitor, and the tax-dodging rebellion went away.
> 
> NEWS FLASH:  Bundy does not own the land.  Personally I would have ended it by putting up a couple of gunships and mowing down all of his cattle.  He could then try to sue the government for his lost property he illegally placed on federal land he refused to pay grazing fees for.  Ever hear of criminal trespass?
> 
> ...



 I didn't realize that there were Hasbara oldfarts too.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 19, 2014)

Mustang said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



that is one cattle that will not be providing nutrients for

the desert tortoise any more 

good work BLM


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 19, 2014)

Everybody seems to think that this cow is an  innocent victim. I maintain that this cow was actually a undercover spy for the BLM, and had been discovered by Bundy, and utterly terminated, with prejudice....


----------



## holston (Apr 19, 2014)

'Who's the Real Crook?': Dinesh D'Souza Takes on Harry Reid's Rhetoric on Bundys | Fox News Insider


----------



## holston (Apr 19, 2014)

Coalition Of Western States forms to Protect Against Federal Overreach | Radio Free Redoubt


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 19, 2014)

holston said:


> Coalition Of Western States forms to Protect Against Federal Overreach | Radio Free Redoubt



yes there is no reason that the feds should own 80 percent of Nevada lands


----------



## paulitician (Apr 19, 2014)

Harry Reid's Henchmen violated the Court Order. They killed the man's cattle. They will be held accountable.


----------



## Againsheila (Apr 19, 2014)

holston said:


> Coalition Of Western States forms to Protect Against Federal Overreach | Radio Free Redoubt



Maybe some good will come out of all this.


----------



## holston (Apr 19, 2014)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62HerL7VeVA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62HerL7VeVA[/ame]


----------



## Mustang (Apr 19, 2014)

holston said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62HerL7VeVA



I thought Merlin Olsen was dead.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Apr 19, 2014)

I would love to see the list of the "prominent politicians" from this coalition of Western states that is meeting to plan insurrection against the US government. Has anyone ever heard of any of them? Do any of them hold ANY elected office? Is john Brown there, or is he still a'molderin' in his grave?


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 20, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> I would love to see the list of the "prominent politicians" from this coalition of Western states that is meeting to plan insurrection against the US government. Has anyone ever heard of any of them? Do any of them hold ANY elected office? Is john Brown there, or is he still a'molderin' in his grave?



it isnt anything new 

you are only hearing about it 

because of another overreach by the feds 

*Anti-federal move marches through Utah House*

Last year, the state gave Congress a deadline of December 2014 to turn over tens of millions of acres of federal land to the state.

After spending a year studying the impacts of such a shift, it was determined a more detailed analysis was needed. HB142, establishing the study, passed the House on Wednesday with one dissenting vote.

Rep. Brian King, D-Salt Lake City, supported the bill, saying he is confident it would show the folly of the states effort.

"Having chosen unwisely and chosen to engage in unconstitutional conduct," King said, the state should understand the cost of managing the federal lands. "This will all be seen as a waste and in the meantime our school kids, who need more than anything funding for their public and higher education, will continue to be neglected."

Rep. Mike Noel, R-Kanab, argued that attorneys have made a case that Utah has a right to the federal lands and called it "one of the most important pieces of legislation."

"It really bothers me when people sit down and say we ought to be moderate and we ought to negotiate. That time has long passed," Noel said.

The bill now moves to the Senate for consideration.

Anti-federal move marches through Utah House | The Salt Lake Tribune


----------



## jon_berzerk (Apr 20, 2014)

paulitician said:


> Harry Reid's Henchmen violated the Court Order. They killed the man's cattle. They will be held accountable.



yes they did 

the graves are starting to be opened now


----------



## paulitician (Apr 20, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > Harry Reid's Henchmen violated the Court Order. They killed the man's cattle. They will be held accountable.
> ...



Pieces of shit. All of Reid's Henchmens' names should be made public. They're criminals.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 20, 2014)

holston said:


> While the BLM is harassing a Nevada rancher on behalf of Harry Reid and his Communist business associates:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXhtYQGW1hA



Harry Reid is a disgraceful miscreant. He chose the cash and his Chinese buddies over his fellow American. Hard to fathom why so many have supported him in Nevada.


----------



## Synthaholic (Apr 20, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Coalition Of Western States forms to Protect Against Federal Overreach | Radio Free Redoubt
> ...


Why?  Nevada is as made-up and arbitrary as Iraq is, just drawn on a map by a bunch of dead white guys.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 20, 2014)

paulitician said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > While the BLM is harassing a Nevada rancher on behalf of Harry Reid and his Communist business associates:
> ...



Shooting and burying good cattle...  friggin democrats.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 21, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Hey, it's more than he had on Kelo...


----------



## paulitician (Apr 21, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > holston said:
> ...



Criminal thugs. They should release the names of all Reid's thugs who were involved with this travesty. They shouldn't be allowed to hide behind anonymity. Make the cowards' names public.


----------



## Synthaholic (Apr 21, 2014)

Has this Right-Wing thief been arrested yet?


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 21, 2014)

Synthaholic said:


> Has this Right-Wing thief been arrested yet?



Nope, the guy is still running around like a free man.  Does that piss you off?


----------



## DriftingSand (Apr 21, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > holston said:
> ...



The least they could have done is feed a few dozen of their useless/eating constituents. Would have saved them a trip down to the local welfare line.


----------



## RKMBrown (Apr 21, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > paulitician said:
> ...



Giving good food to hungry people, Democrats?  Never happen.


----------



## DriftingSand (Apr 21, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> DriftingSand said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Not when they can raise taxes instead.  Who needs food?


----------



## holston (Apr 21, 2014)

Harry Reid?s Nevada family values | Opinion - Conservative


----------



## Politico (Apr 22, 2014)

Synthaholic said:


> Has this Right-Wing thief been arrested yet?



He hasn't done anything to be arrested for yet. Quit being an idiot.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 22, 2014)

Grampa Murked U said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?
> ...


Bullshit!

Bundy's parents bought the land in 1948, and started grazing their cattle in 1954. The BLM was created in 1946.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 22, 2014)

Katzndogz said:


> The dispute is over state land.  The Feds went onto Bundy's private property to destroy the water lines, destroy the corrals and shoot the bulls. * The Bundy home is on the private property owned by his family for 140 years. * Once the feds left what they considered public land and went onto private property to destroy they lost whatever position they had.


That's a lie. If Bundy will lie about how long his family owned the ranch, why would he tell the truth about the BLM killing his cattle?

Bundy is a proven liar. PERIOD!


----------



## paulitician (Apr 22, 2014)

BLM admits it killed Six of Bundy's Cattle







The Bureau of Land Management is confirming it killed six cattle as part of its standoff against the Bundy Ranch in Bunkersville, NV.

&#8220;A total of six cattle died or were euthanized,&#8221; a BLM official told Breitbart News.

The official listed the dead livestock cataloged by the BLM explaining, &#8220;The Bundy branded bull that was euthanized posed a significant threat to employees during the gather. The Bundy branded cow ran into a fence panel injuring its spine and was euthanized.&#8221; The dead animals listed by the official were:

1 Bundy branded bull was euthanized
1 Bundy branded cow was euthanized
1 unbranded bull was euthanized
1 unbranded cow was euthanized
1 unbranded bull died
1 unbranded cow died

According to the BLM, the gather was based on recent court orders. &#8220;Most recently, in 2013, in two separate orders, the U.S. District Court of Nevada directed Mr. Bundy to remove his cattle within 45 days, and authorized the United States to impound his cattle,&#8221; said the official.

The Bundy Ranch Facebook page, run by Bundy&#8217;s daughter Bailey Bundy Logue, posted photos of dead cattle from a mass grave, which they say belong to the Bundy Ranch, a few days after the BLM impoundment and called the agency&#8217;s actions &#8220;unjust.&#8221; The Bundy Ranch claim the cows and bulls were either &#8220;run to death&#8221; or shot...

More:
BLM Confirms It Killed Six Of Bundy's Cattle


----------



## paulitician (Apr 22, 2014)

Agenda 21


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM]Agenda 21 For Dummies - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## paulitician (Apr 22, 2014)

People need to keep in mind that Environmental Extremists are Communist Globalists. They are the power behind the Environmental Fanatic Movement. Just do some research and see who the Leaders are. They are all Communist Globalists. Agenda 21 is very real.


----------



## Meister (Apr 22, 2014)

Synthaholic said:


> Has this Right-Wing thief been arrested yet?



Strange how you truly believe that, Synth.
Yet a democrat named Al Sharpton owes our government 2.6 million and Warren Buffett owes around a billion through his Birkshire Hathaway.  Not a peep from you or the rest of the liberals on this board, or Obama and Reid.
Pathetic hypocrites, all of you.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 22, 2014)

Politico said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Has this Right-Wing thief been arrested yet?
> ...



He has violated a court order from my understanding.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 22, 2014)

paulitician said:


> BLM admits it killed Six of Bundy's Cattle
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good stuff.  Too bad the animals had to get hurt in all of this.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 22, 2014)

Meister said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> > Has this Right-Wing thief been arrested yet?
> ...


Sharpton has worked out a payment plan with the IRS, you know like the ones advertised on your MessiahRushie's hate radio program. Is the Welfare Cowboy making payments, if not he is worse than Sharpton, no wonder the Right likes him!


----------



## Mustang (Apr 22, 2014)

paulitician said:


> People need to keep in mind that Environmental Extremists are Communist Globalists. They are the power behind the Environmental Fanatic Movement. Just do some research and see who the Leaders are. They are all Communist Globalists. Agenda 21 is very real.



LOL! The communists have never given a damn about the environment. If you don't believe that then do some research into what Eastern Europe was like when the Iron Curtain finally fell. The pollution was endemic.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett (Apr 22, 2014)

*UPDATE:* This is the latest from Harry Reid on Mr. Bundy: 

*&#8216;Something Will Happen&#8217; To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy* 
Reid: ?Something Will Happen? To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy « CBS Las Vegas



BUNKERVILLE, Nev. &#8212; Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says *&#8220;something is going to happen&#8221; **to get Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy to stop letting his cattle graze on federal land. *


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 22, 2014)

Mustang said:


> LOL! The communists have never given a damn about the environment.



Well, that explains why Algore rides around in a limo and private jet....



> If you don't believe that then do some research into what Eastern Europe was like when the Iron Curtain finally fell. The pollution was endemic.



As it will be if you get the totalitarian dictatorship you are so eager for. Many early Russians believed the lies of the Bolsheviks, just as you believe the lies the radical left tells you. Leftism is based on stupidity - without you, it cannot prevail.


----------



## Asclepias (Apr 22, 2014)

Steve_McGarrett said:


> *UPDATE:* This is the latest from Harry Reid on Mr. Bundy:
> 
> *Something Will Happen To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy*
> Reid: ?Something Will Happen? To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy « CBS Las Vegas
> ...



Go Reid!!! Take away thats ranchers entitlement. Thats what you are being paid for.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Apr 22, 2014)

Steve_McGarrett said:


> *UPDATE:* This is the latest from Harry Reid on Mr. Bundy:
> 
> *Something Will Happen To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy*
> Reid: ?Something Will Happen? To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy « CBS Las Vegas
> ...




Reid has a history of having people beaten to death with baseball bats in remote orange groves. 

Bundy best keep his gun loaded.


----------



## Mustang (Apr 22, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > LOL! The communists have never given a damn about the environment.
> ...



You and Stephanie should car pool to a mental health clinic together. While you're at it, I could probably send you the names of a few more people. Perhaps you should get a van...or a bus.


----------



## edthecynic (Apr 22, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> > *UPDATE:* This is the latest from Harry Reid on Mr. Bundy:
> ...


  Keep them lies coming!


----------



## CaféAuLait (Apr 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> > *UPDATE:* This is the latest from Harry Reid on Mr. Bundy:
> ...



Reid who was accused of domestic terrorism himself by the Native Americans he was trying to rip off? 

United States Terrorism: BLM Strikes the Dann Ranch Again

He tried to pass a bill to pay those women 15 cent an acre for their land worth 200-1000 an acre. 

The Dann Sisters - Western Shoshone Heroes
United States Terrorism: BLM Strikes the Dann Ranch Again

Last stand for Western Shoshone; it might look legal, but it stinks - ICTMN.com


----------



## paulitician (Apr 23, 2014)

Mustang said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> > People need to keep in mind that Environmental Extremists are Communist Globalists. They are the power behind the Environmental Fanatic Movement. Just do some research and see who the Leaders are. They are all Communist Globalists. Agenda 21 is very real.
> ...



All of the Environmental Extremist Leaders are Communist Globalists. They are behind the Environmental Fanatic Movement. Read up a bit on who the Leaders of the Movement are. Also read up a bit on Agenda 21. These people are serious. They have a very disturbing agenda.


----------



## paulitician (Apr 23, 2014)

Steve_McGarrett said:


> *UPDATE:* This is the latest from Harry Reid on Mr. Bundy:
> 
> *&#8216;Something Will Happen&#8217; To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy*
> Reid: ?Something Will Happen? To Stop Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy « CBS Las Vegas
> ...



Oh, it's not over. Big Brother doesn't like to lose. He's vindictive and evil. Make no mistake about it, this is a threat. Harry Reid is pure evil. First they assassinate your character, then they assassinate you. And that's what's going on now. Reid already labeled him a 'Terrorist.' I predicted that would happen. Now look for em to label him an evil 'Cult Leader', 'Militia Boogeyman', or even a 'Child Molester.' This man needs our prayers. It's gonna get worse for him. Hopefully good Americans will continue to stand with him and his family.


----------



## holston (Apr 23, 2014)

Make No Mistake - America Has Been SOLD By The NWO


> *In 1992, George H.W. Bush signed Executive Order 12803, which gave D.C. the authority to sell America's infrastructure. They called this authority "Infrastructure Privatization."*



George Bush: Executive Order 12803 - Infrastructure Privatization


> Federal Reserve System + Politicians + Tell-A-Vision = Assembly Line Crises. It is called the Hegelian Dialectic Show.
> 
> Everything in the country, including the current planet-sized medical emergency, is in crisis. So enters Martial Law.
> Think of our president's promises to "change" the country and to fix the economy (which the Federal Reserve and Congress destroyed) by rebuilding America's infrastructure, including "21st Century schools" and by greening-up our living standards and conditions (*International Code Council, Carbon Credits, Waxman-Markey Climate Bill, etc*.) - minus, of course, privately owned land and homes *(Agenda 21).* In the last six months, *consider the massive growth of the Federal Government, the national debt, and the powers of the Federal Reserve Central Banking System* - all with stated intentions of fixing the economy that they single-handedly destroyed - and fixing it with "infrastructure" projects.
> ...




  It isn't hard to tell who the Marxists, anti-whites, Hasbarats, and Jewish Supremacists are on this thread by the way they celebrate loss of freedom, the demise of the US, and by the way they love to trash "angry ol' white men".


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## holston (Apr 23, 2014)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVnfQgt0MZc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVnfQgt0MZc[/ame]


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## holston (Apr 23, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Go Reid!!! Take away thats ranchers entitlement. Thats what you are being paid for.





> 1. The country's infrastructure has been for sale for 17 years. Roads, tunnels, bridges, electricity supply facilities, mass transit, rail transportation, airports, ports, waterways, water supply facilities, recycling/wastewater facilities, solid waste facilities, prisons, hospitals, schools, and housing -- this being of "examples" of saleable infrastructure and not the entire list of saleable items according to E.O. 12803--so the question begs: *What exactly has been sold to "private parties in our nation?* We would like to see the complete list. We know that many highway systems have been sold to foreign countries, but what of the other listed items? Have they been sold as well?
> 
> If so,* who owns them, and more to the question, which D.C. department sold them and for how much?* Did the Federal Reserve and Congress sell our nation? Where is the paperwork? Did they repay any of America's debt that they purposefully created with their pyramid fiat money lending schemes? And why are they still raising our taxes if America is no longer America but belongs to foreign nations or "private parties?" Since the Federal Reserve is a "private" corporation, did the Fed buy any of America's infrastructure "assets?"
> 
> ...




 If Americans really are this moronic, I suppose they deserve a dictator. 

 Before they sell their souls to Marx and his tribe, they at least ought to take a look at what happened to the USSR before it dissolved. They should also take a look at the Chinese "worker's paradise" to see whether it's what they really want. 

 Take a look at this if you have time. It might help you to understand where we are headed. Surely a couple of hours is no skin off the nose of people who spend about as much time looking at internet porn and useless chit chat. 

 If you do watch, pay particular attention to the ethnicity of who the primary Russian Oligarchs. And remember that those who remain have set up shop in the US. It may give additional insight into what is happening in Ukraine right now. 
 You can't depend on the US news media to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. They are nothing more than a ZOG tool.

 [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Cl8lSv9Is"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Cl8lSv9Is[/ame]

 [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2nNtynZAiI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2nNtynZAiI[/ame]


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## SAYIT (Apr 23, 2014)

holston said:


> Make No Mistake - America Has Been SOLD By The NWO
> 
> 
> > *In 1992, George H.W. Bush signed Executive Order 12803, which gave D.C. the authority to sell America's infrastructure. They called this authority "Infrastructure Privatization."*
> ...



It's easy to tell who the Nazis are on this thread by their desperate need to blame everything on the Joooos.


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## paulitician (Apr 24, 2014)

First they assassinate your character, then they assassinate you. Right now, Big Brother is in the process of assassinating this man's character. They're now beginning to label him a 'Terrorist.' Some are calling him a 'Racist' too. Soon i expect them to be labeling him a crazed 'Cult Leader', Militia Boogeyman', or even a 'Child Molester' as well. Big Brother will say & do anything to justify his heinous crimes. So for now, it's assassinate his character. But how long before they actually assassinate the man? The poor guy's in real danger. Him and his family need our prayers.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Go Reid!!! Take away thats ranchers entitlement. Thats what you are being paid for.
> ...



No one is coming to take your freedom retard......unless you break laws that we approve of. You sound like you have cornered the market in your area for tinfoil.


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## Againsheila (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Colorado Eminent Domain Case Settled, Property Owners Lose Land


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > holston said:
> ...



5th amendment working as planned.


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## Againsheila (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Do you really believe they were "justly" compensated?  And that the government has the right to take your property away so that it can be "open land?"


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## Katzndogz (Apr 24, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



To the statist, the government already owns everything and doesn't need to pay for what they take.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

Againsheila said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



If it was fair market then yes. You cant pick and chose which amendments you want to obey. If you agree with the 1rst amendment then you have to tolerate the 5th.  Otherwise start your own country.


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## holston (Apr 24, 2014)

SAYIT said:


> It's easy to tell who the Nazis are on this thread by their desperate need to blame everything on the Joooos.



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf6a4VHx-ZI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf6a4VHx-ZI[/ame]



> Jewish Times
> US Jewish organizations get $9m. for homeland security
> Security grants for non-profits narrowly escape sequestration threat, with Jewish groups garnering 90% of available funds
> 
> ...




 You don't suppose that they would be hoping to provoke something the way you are trying to provoke me do you?


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## holston (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> *If it was fair market *then yes. *You cant pick and chose which amendments you want to obey.* If you agree with the 1rst amendment then you have to tolerate the 5th.  Otherwise start your own country.



 By "fair market" are you referring to anything like the "market" on Wall Street or Trade agreements like NAFTA?

 So can the Supreme court and Marxist like yourself choose which amendments they want to abolish altogether?

 What about Yomammi? Can he choose which laws he wants to enforce, like immigration laws for example?

 Or can he just make laws up as he goes by calling them "executive orders"?


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## holston (Apr 24, 2014)

> WASHINGTON &#8212; American Jewish institutions will get a leg up *from the federal government *this year with the awarding of *$9 million in non-profit security grants designed to help Jewish non-profits protect themselves against and respond to terror threats.* Community leaders welcomed the announcement, which marked the eighth straight year that the Jewish community *received the lion&#8217;s share *of the available grants.



Read more: US Jewish organizations get $9m. for 'homeland security' | The Times of Israel US Jewish organizations get $9m. for 'homeland security' | The Times of Israel
Follow us: [MENTION=32814]Tim[/MENTION]esofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook


 Those Jews are sly devils. They'll be ready for any attacks made against them by "angry ol' white men" aka "terrorists"  like Bundy!


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > *If it was fair market *then yes. *You cant pick and chose which amendments you want to obey.* If you agree with the 1rst amendment then you have to tolerate the 5th.  Otherwise start your own country.
> ...



That was an amazingly weak attempt at avoiding the point of my post.  You must be one of those that think you are clever and put random sentences together and just change the subject.  What part of eminent domain did your funny post address? If you have an issue with the constitution change it or get your own country. Stop wringing your hands in anguish and get to work whiner.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

holston said:


> > WASHINGTON  American Jewish institutions will get a leg up *from the federal government *this year with the awarding of *$9 million in non-profit security grants designed to help Jewish non-profits protect themselves against and respond to terror threats.* Community leaders welcomed the announcement, which marked the eighth straight year that the Jewish community *received the lions share *of the available grants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are supposed to put the tinfoil over your head...not eat it.  You seem to be suffering from aluminum poisoning. Go see a doctor.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> If it was fair market then yes. You cant pick and chose which amendments you want to obey. If you agree with the 1rst amendment then you have to tolerate the 5th.  Otherwise start your own country.



Have you ever actually READ the 5th?

{Article [V.]

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be *taken for public use*, without just compensation. }

Can you explain to the class what public use the land is put to? Is there a road or a bridge I can drive on?

Or is all land the domain of the king, to do with as the crown sees fit, with no respect for private ownership at all?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 24, 2014)

holston said:


> > WASHINGTON  American Jewish institutions will get a leg up *from the federal government *this year with the awarding of *$9 million in non-profit security grants designed to help Jewish non-profits protect themselves against and respond to terror threats.* Community leaders welcomed the announcement, which marked the eighth straight year that the Jewish community *received the lions share *of the available grants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Holston, could you do me a favor and argue for the other side?

JOOOOOOO haters have no place on the right side of the divide.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > If it was fair market then yes. You cant pick and chose which amendments you want to obey. If you agree with the 1rst amendment then you have to tolerate the 5th.  Otherwise start your own country.
> ...



Yes I have read the 5th and actually understood it which it appears you have not.  What does the term "public use" mean to you? I'll give you a hint. It can be something like a sanctuary for things that fly or walk on four legs.


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## Meister (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Or, just an excuse to overreach as a government. 
But, being a self proclaimed communist that wouldn't be an issue.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Thanks for coming to his defense but you have to do better than that.  When you lie about what someone has proclaimed your credibility suffers a major blow.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Yes I have read the 5th and actually understood it which it appears you have not.  What does the term "public use" mean to you? I'll give you a hint. It can be something like a sanctuary for things that fly or walk on four legs.



This is where your lack of grasp of Kelo really bites you. You danced around your abject ignorance of the case before, but now you are in the middle of it.

Prior to Kelo, "public use" fell into the "taking clause," where the government must demonstrate a substantial benefit to the public at large prior to invoking eminent domain.

FindLaw | Cases and Codes

So again, please demonstrate the benefit to the public that is to be had by this action?


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Thanks for coming to his defense but you have to do better than that.  When you lie about what someone has proclaimed your credibility suffers a major blow.



Meister is a well educated, intelligent man, with a solid grasp of the issues.

Naturally, we usually agree on things.


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## Meister (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Hey......you stated in another thread.  True story....


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## Meister (Apr 24, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I have read the 5th and actually understood it which it appears you have not.  What does the term "public use" mean to you? I'll give you a hint. It can be something like a sanctuary for things that fly or walk on four legs.
> ...


I couldn't have stated it better, myself.
Concise and right to the point.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

Meister said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



You should be able to supply the quote then.  Otherwise you only appear desperate to impress someone.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I have read the 5th and actually understood it which it appears you have not.  What does the term "public use" mean to you? I'll give you a hint. It can be something like a sanctuary for things that fly or walk on four legs.
> ...



I never danced around anything.  i asked you what it had to do with this case and you couldn't answer that. The Taking clause never stated anything about "substantial" which is a term you included in your haste to prove your irrelevant point. Did you really think I would miss that? It states:



> "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."



If they want to say the dirt on the contested land would be cool for kids to view on the 13th of each month that could be considered public use.

That addition basically protects against the sovereign right of the government to just come and take your land for no reason at all and no compensation stupid.  Now what does that have to do with land that Bundy doesnt even own you moron?


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## boedicca (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...




There's no such thing as a Forced Sale being Fair Market.


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## Asclepias (Apr 24, 2014)

boedicca said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Obviously you've never owned real estate in your entire life. 



> The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts.


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## holston (Apr 24, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Holston, could you do me a favor and argue for the other side?
> 
> JOOOOOOO haters have no place on the right side of the divide.



 Sorry, I can't argue for "the other side". 

 I don't believe in the "left" "right" paradigm as the Zionist media frames it. Obviously you do. Therefore I can't argue for "the other side" since I'm already on the "other side" relative to where you stand. 
 Either you are in favor of Jewish hegemony as is represented by the Federal government or you are opposed to it. 

 In your case, you would appear to be arguing in favor of individual and states rights vs the authority of the Zionist Organizational Government to usurp them both. That would make you as guilty as I am. You would deny that.

 But if you object to Yomamma's henchmen like Reid granting himself the power to sell pieces of the US to communist China, then you are standing in opposition to ZOG. 
 If you object to Yomamma's henchmen like Eric Holder selling weapons to Mexican drug cartels and then thumbing his nose up at Congress, likewise, you are opposing ZOG. 


Update: Holder Defies Congress (Again)


> &#8220;It also appears from those documents that Mr. Breuer&#8217;s deputy, *Jason Weinstein, knew about ATF walking guns in both operations! Anyone who knew about gunwalking in any case, also knew that the department&#8217;s initial letter to me was false.* The attorney general said the letter was based on the best information available at the time. But senior officials at headquarters, like *Breuer and Weinstein,* knew better.&#8221;





> Eric Holder previously denied that any gunrunning was taking place. He had sent a letter to Congress vehemently defending Fast and Furious, telling the lawmakers that ATF had not been allowing guns to &#8220;walk&#8221; across the border. Then, earlier this year, he went before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,* committing perjury, lying t*o U.S. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) about his knowledge of the gunrunning sham. Holder originally called Fast and Furious a &#8220;local, Arizona-based operation.&#8221;



 Perjury is an offense which would _ordinarily_ get an_ ordinary_ person jailed. 

 In the interest of _conserving space_ you can read the rest of the article yourself. 
 That's if you are as concerned about a lying Attorney General who puts himself above the law as you seem to be about Mr Bundy's freeloading cows. 


> Even the leftist Washington Post wants to shut this down. They admitted that Holder walked around the truth; but *somehow, to them, that doesn&#8217;t matter!*



Ted Cruz: Impeach Eric Holder for 'defying Congress and the rule of law' - Washington Times

 The list of Yommama's infractions is much larger and far worse than any threat posed to national security by Bundy and his mooching cows. 

A List of Obama?s Constitutional Violations |

 Would you say that I "hate Jews" because I despise their Marxist puppets?

 If the tyrants and bullies pulling all the government strings weren't Jews and I still opposed them, what would you accuse me of then?

 If a thief or a liar happens to be a Jew, do you think he's entitled to a get out of jail card?
 If a Jewish crime boss orders a hit, do you think he's any less guilty of murder than the Stooge he hires to do it?

http://rense.com/general81/midds.htm


> But t*he neocons did not gain the upper hand in formulating the foreign policy of the Bush administration until the terror attacks of September 11, 2001 *- which proved to be the pivotal events in the neocon ascendancy. When the administration looked for* a plan to deal with terrorism, the neocons had one to offer, and a network, inside and outside of the government, to promote it.*
> 
> The second President Bush was essentially a convert to neoconservative policy. Prior to 9/11, Bush never exhibited any strong understanding of or interest in Middle East policy, and was therefore in need of the kind of guidance that the neocons could present in a simple paradigm-good versus evil-that Bush would find attractive.



 Now the Neo-Cons are calling Bundy and others like him "terrorists". 

 What do you think would have happened had Bundy's neighbors not shown up armed as well? 
 Ruby Ridge maybe?

 I suppose Reid could call on Yomammi to just "Executive" order a drone strike on the Bundy ranch. 

 Do you think that would satisfy our Neo-Bolshevik friends here? 


President Obama?s top 10 constitutional violations | The Daily Caller

 So which is worse, Bundy's cows eating free grass or Yomamma's violation of the Constitution and failure to enforce the immigration laws he SWORE to uphold?

 Yomamma?  

 So where are all the IMPEACH YOMAMMA buttons?

 Why aren't all the Marxist feminazis and Sayinim who claim they are just as loyal to the US as they are Israel rising up in protest?

 Could it be because the thing that's going down in the country is precisely what they want?!


 SO, whose side are you on anyway?

 If you are opposed to Yomamma I would say it's because you are a racist and are prejudiced against blacks. 

 If you stand against Federal usurpation of state rights then you are opposing ZOG, because "Capital hill is Israeli occupied territory". Do you want proof?

 And if you are opposed to any ZOG then you must be opposed to the Zionist agenda for the US and the world.
 And if you are opposed to any Zionist agenda then it can only be because you are "anti-Semitic".

 So tell me. Why do you hate the Jews?

 And what makes you so prejudiced against Yomamma?
 If you think Eric Holder is out of line then that proves that you are prejudiced against blacks. 

 Why do you hate blacks so much? 
 What did they ever do to you?


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## holston (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Obviously you've never owned real estate in your entire life.



  In communist countries the state owns all the real estate. 

  They have socialized medicine too. Lenin once said that the key to instituting socialism would be government control of health care. 

Why Does the Federal Government own Nevada? | Opinion - Conservative


> *Why Does the Federal Government own Nevada?*
> Sunday, April 20, 2014



 Speaking of dummies. 


> *The Bundy problem isn&#8217;t Nevada&#8217;s alone* where government owns 87.7 % of the land leaving private ownership of the state at but 12.3 %. The percentage of land owned by government exceeds fifty percent in Alaska (98.5), Idaho (63.8), Oregon (52.6), and Utah (63.6).* Indeed, the federal government claims to own a third of all the landmass in the United States *(Inventory Report on Real Property Owned by the United States Throughout the World, published by the General Services Administration, page 10). Government owns almost half of California (47.5). Basically *the federal government did not give western states all their land when they qualified for statehood.* States were so excited to get coveted statehood that they went along with the conditions despite the confiscation of, for most in the West, at least a third of their land. *Dr Pease cites the U.S. Constitution that exempts the federal government from owning any other property outside the capital and military purposes.*
> 
> Having someone willing to stand, *Sage Brush Rebellion states now should seize this moment to remind the federal government that they too want their land back. *If they stand together now it is more probable than ever that it will happen. One suggestion for Governor Brian Sandoval of Nevada is to declare the contested property Nevada&#8217;s and have Bundy begin paying Nevada for grazing rights. Taking back this infinitesimal amount of the whole that is claimed by the federal government will set the stage for more acquisitions later. *The governor would become an instant hero in the western states.* That would diffuse the standoff between citizen and federal government moving it to the state instead where it belongs. Why is a citizen (in this case Cliven Bundy) having to make the case for a state? *The governor would give strength to two objectives&#8212;returning fraudulently acquired land to the states and getting back to the Constitution.*






 Given the forward momentum that Marx's disciples have gained in the US, at some point the people will have to decide whether they want to live under a Soviet or Chinese style regime headed up by Jewish Supremacists. 



> It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace &#8211; but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have?* Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? *Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!



 I guess if anything ever stops the Marxist juggernaut in the US it will have to be the blood of "angry ol' white farts" that water the tree of liberty, because it sure as hell ain't gonna be the Mexicans or the blacks; most of all NOT the JEWS! Gays like getting stiffed in the rear, and stoners are too wasted to care one way or the other. 

 Some choice they'd leave us, huh?

Give me liberty, or give me death! - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




> More recently,* in China, Ren Jianyu, a 25-year-old former college student *"village official"  *was given a two-year re-education through labor sentence* for an *online* anti-CPC speech. A T-shirt of Ren's saying *"Give me liberty or give me death!" *(in Chinese) *has been taken as evidence of his anti-social guilt.*



 That's alright. 
 Shoot Bundy's cows, send _him_ to a reeducation camp, and let Reid and his son get wealthy selling Nevada to the Chinese. 
 Maybe they'll decide to build a missile silo on it. That would make all the Lesbos happy.


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## holston (Apr 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



 I have an issue with the way you Marxists are trying to walk all over it. Perhaps you should move to China. They think more along the same lines that you do. 
 And don't try to give me the Jewish argument that the US has always been a communist Secular Humanist country or some crap like that. 

PEASE: Why does the federal government own Nevada? - Your Houston News: Opinion



> Equality between states was established by giving them equal representation in the U.S. Senate, thus the assumption of the Founders was that property would follow. Without it they are not on equal footing and instead may be more servile to the federal government than states that own themselves. This could negatively affect our system of government known as federalism as states collectively serve as a check on federal overreach. This check is impaired when the federal government owns part or most of their land.
> 
> But this is not the most serious violation of the Constitution. The Founders understood that the size of land holding was proportionally related to the perceived size of the federal government and they intentionally wanted that perception small. The Federal government was permitted to have but 10 square miles for a federal capital. The only other land that they could acquire had to be for military purposes as specified in the common defense clause of the Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 which reads: and to exercise like Authority over all places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the same shall be for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock Yards, and other needful Buildings.
> 
> ...


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > holston said:
> ...




I cant think of anyone that cares what you have an issue with. You dont like it, then change it or start your own colony.  Something tells me you will only continue to do your useless whining.  Me? I'm not going anywhere.  You dont like that the go kick rocks somewhere. You are a useless complainer and I bet you defend that.


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## holston (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> I cant think of anyone that cares what you have an issue with. You dont like it, then change it or start your own colony.  Something tells me you will only continue to do your useless whining.  Me? I'm not going anywhere.  You dont like that the go kick rocks somewhere. You are a useless complainer and I bet you defend that.



 I can think of plenty of people who care what I have issues with. I can post plenty of evidence to that effect. They are not leaving the country either. 

 The reasons why their voices are not heard is because the Zionists control the media. 

 Since those Zionists comprise a minority, in a truly Democratic country this minority rule situation wouldn't exist. As far as that goes it wouldn't exist in a true Republic either.  China and the former USSR were Republics in name only, unless you  approve of the type of draconian laws that their polit-bureaus enforced. The only minorities _they_ ever protected was the ruling minority. 

 From your "signatures" and the things which you have said it appears that the type of rule which you would prefer in the US would be one comparable to that of the USSR or "the People's 'Republic'" of China, but only provided that the ruling minority was the Zionist Supremacists who are calling the shots now.

 No. I wouldn't expect you people to want to leave to go to China, Russia, or even Israel for the same reason that the blacks do not want to return to Africa to a place like Liberia or the Mexicans to the land of Drug Cartels and decapitations. 

 No. None of you would want to do that. WHY?

 I'll tell you; because YOU WANT U.S. REAL ESTATE. I've wondered whether these people actually hate whitey as much as they just want his stuff. 

 You speak of whiners when there are no greater whiners in all of history who compare to the Jews. There's never a day that passes when one may not be reminded of the "holocaust" and how oppressed and persecuted the pitiful Jews are. They never tire of trashing the "WASP" culture who allowed them into the US, permitted them to establish the Federal Reserve, change the immigration laws, invade the South with countless carpetbaggers and "civil rights" advocates and generally take over everything, including the Democrat and Republican parties. 
 Every time you turn around the Jews are hitting the Federal Government up for grants and special favors. Then they use the loot they've usurped to buy off "Representatives" and otherwise threaten those who are averse to taking bribes. 

 If one were to judge you by your feminazi sign, they could just as easily say that you belong to the class of whiners known as homosexuals. 
 Not one person in a hundred give two cents what you do in your bedrooms. But that is not satisfactory. You have to impose your will and your ways on society at large. 

 In the same way, any white man who would prefer not to have some thug of a black man as a brother in law, or a bigoted Jew requiring him to obtain permission to do or say anything, is called a "racist". 

 Who can deny that we have all been hearing about the "racist" white man (meaning non-Jew specifically and exclusively) for over 50 years now, day and night?

 And who is it that has been the prime cheer leading squad for this gaggle of squawking complainers if it hasn't been the Jews? 



 You people are pretending that this issue is about nothing more than than Federal Government sending a swat team to put Mr Bundy in his proper place. 
 You want to convince everyone that the issue is about money when the BLM has spent more money on the project than Bundy owed in the first place. 

 You want to pretend that US politicians selling the land and infrastructure of the US to communist Chinese and other foreign entities has nothing to do with it. 

 You want to ignore the fact that Yomamma has been a violator of the Constitution himself and is a law breaker for failing to enforce immigration laws. 
 You want to give a pass to ATTORNEY GENERAL Eric Holder for committing perjury. 

 You squawk and complain and whine about Bundy's cows eating grass, and Bundy not paying "his fair share" when your own government has run the US 17 TRILLION dollars in debt, at least, much of which has gone into fighting unconstitutional wars and fomenting a half dozen others, all for the sake of expanding greater Zion.
 You make a deal about trespassing cows when you don't give a flip about the occupation of US lands by Mexican drug lords or the incursion of their whoremongering, drug dealing, head chopping, Reconquista, La Raza , anti-American (anti-white man) culture into the US. 

 You people moan like you're going to die if the US doesn't endorse and embrace sexual perversion and rampant drug abuse. 
 At the same time you want to censor every mention of Christ or Christian icon in public while jailing anyone who dares speak a word against the Neo-Con Machiavellian policy of "preemptive" war or is critical of Talmudic Judaism. 

 I could go on for a long time about all the things you "liberal" ding dongs gripe about. 

 There's not a LIBERAL bone your entire collective bodies , not in the Biblical sense of the word. That's a misnomer if ever there was one. It's like the word "gay". It's meaning has been irrevocably corrupted it by the people who usurped it. 

 You just can't wait to "stick it to da man". Never mind the millions of illegal immigrants or the impact that they will have on this country. "It's about Bundy's cows" you squeal just like stuck pig, "Ol' man Bundy is holdin' out on us. Make him cough it up Comrade Reid!"

Never mind the fact that the US is being Balkanized by infiltrators, spies, and saboteurs, and their prostitutes within our government,  and that our legal system slowly being transformed  into a "Noahide" plutocracy by the Kings of usury and masters of deceit one House resolution, "hate law", and legislative alteration at a time.

 Just as long as you hogs have a roomy place at the swill trough, go ahead and ruin just as many of those "angry ol' white men" as possible. _They_ deserve it. 
 As long as that  slop keeps pouring in none of your ilk really give a damn about justice or freedom either one.


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## jillian (Apr 25, 2014)

nice anti-Semite rant....

is there anyone you don't hate besides white Christian males?



and no one is "censoring any mention of" Jesus. he just has no place in government because there are a lot of us who don't buy that particular flavor of religion.


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

holston said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > I cant think of anyone that cares what you have an issue with. You dont like it, then change it or start your own colony.  Something tells me you will only continue to do your useless whining.  Me? I'm not going anywhere.  You dont like that the go kick rocks somewhere. You are a useless complainer and I bet you defend that.
> ...



You are crying so hard you should sleep good tonight.  You seem to be in a constant state of pent up anger and frustration with your inability to provide yourself with a good life.  if you look up instead of being a little Debbie downer you will see you can get ahead. Stop blaming your lack of progress on everyone else especially if you are a white guy with nothing blocking your path.

I'm Black and I have to tell you Liberia is not the only country in Africa. I've been to Africa and would have no problem living there. I love the place. My family is here in the states, I have obligations here, and I own land. Your assumptions brand you as the retard you have put on display for everyone to see. 

Bundy is nothing but a liar, racist, and free loading crybaby probably much like yourself.  If the feds dropped a bomb on his place I would cheer to see it blown off the map because he represents your type. You clowns are everything thats wrong with the US and precisely what is holding it back from achieving its full potential.  In time your type will slowly wither away confined to the swamps of the Ozarks or the mountains ranges where you will inbreed and die out due to defective genes. Get a life loser, stop complaining about the bad jooos, and contribute something to society that is positive.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Bundy is nothing but a liar, racist, and free loading crybaby probably much like yourself.  If the feds dropped a bomb on his place I would cheer to see it blown off the map because he represents your type. You clowns are everything thats wrong with the US and precisely what is holding it back from achieving its full potential.  In time your type will slowly wither away confined to the swamps of the Ozarks or the mountains ranges where you will inbreed and die out due to defective genes. Get a life loser, stop complaining about the bad jooos, and contribute something to society that is positive.



You are nothing but an ignorant piece of shit coward.


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bundy is nothing but a liar, racist, and free loading crybaby probably much like yourself.  If the feds dropped a bomb on his place I would cheer to see it blown off the map because he represents your type. You clowns are everything thats wrong with the US and precisely what is holding it back from achieving its full potential.  In time your type will slowly wither away confined to the swamps of the Ozarks or the mountains ranges where you will inbreed and die out due to defective genes. Get a life loser, stop complaining about the bad jooos, and contribute something to society that is positive.
> ...



Thats what all you clowns like to say but everyone else in the world knows better.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Everyone knows you.  ROFL


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Everyone knows better. Get your glasses adjusted or learn how to read.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Subject verb ya dumb ass.

I said "[y]ou are nothing but an ignorant piece of shit coward."
In response you said "[t]hats what all you clowns like to say but everyone else in the world knows better."

Thus your sentence literally means, "All you clowns like to say Asclepias is an ignorant piece of shit coward, but everyone else in the world knows better."

Thus, your sentence literally means everyone one in the world that is not a clown, knows better than to call you an ignorant piece of shit coward.

Thus, it follows that you believe everyone that is not a clown in this world knows you well enough to not call you out as an ignorant piece of shit coward.

If you meant to say most people would not call you an ignorant piece of shit coward without first getting to know you, well then why didn't you say that?  

Me, I've seen enough of your posts to know for sure that you are nothing but an ignorant piece of shit coward.

PS:  Just cause your black, don't expect favors, don't expect me to coddle you like a little baby as you celebrate over a family getting raped by the USG.


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



BS. Dont try to explain away the fact you totally misread my post. Just cause you are white dont expect any entitlements to be given and think I am going to support a lying, racist, and freeloading rancher like you do. How can you actually defend such scum? You must be a rancher as well.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



In the conversation actor 1: "[y]ou are nothing but an ignorant piece of shit coward" response from actor 2: "[t]hats what all you clowns like to say but everyone else in the world knows better." "thats what all you clowns like to say but everyone else in the world knows better."







State what the subject, verb, and direct object are in the responsive sentence.


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Give it a rest and learn how to read text. Your mind reading skills have already proven to be abysmal. You should stop thinking you are good at it.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Oh I see. To read your text correctly one has to be a mind reader.  Got it.  Is that your say of saying your forgot to put the subject of your sentence in your sentence?  ROFL


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Your comprehension skills seem to be lacking as well. You cant read minds son. You can only read text. In your case you seem to spectacularly bad at both.  Does that make sense?


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## dr.d (Apr 25, 2014)

I see...so with armed militias massing at Bundy's ranch and sharpshooters training their semiautomatics off a bridge in the Fed's direction...after him flouting the law for 20 years and refusing multiple efforts to collect legitimate fees in arrears...thru repeated court action ruling against him as a lawbreaker...
...the Feds should just drop by for a social call with arms full of flowers and candy and ask nicely...with a cherry on top ?! Whats the matter with u cons...aren't u the ones who endlessly repeat "the laws on the books must be enforced"?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



CMON dumb ass, show everyone what the subject is in your sentence.  You can do it.


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Go find someone stupid enough to fall for your deflection of the fact you cant read very well.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Cmon you can do it! Put some bold emphasis on the subject in your sentence. Don't run away.


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

Just watched Bundys response to the reactions from his hate speech yesterday.  The guy is one of those that are so racist he doesn't even realize it.  Its embedded in the fiber of his being and will not be removed.

Bundy: Media is prejudiced, not me - CNN.com Video


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## Asclepias (Apr 25, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...




Lets see you put those mind reading skills to work. Tell me what I am thinking in 3 minutes.


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## RKMBrown (Apr 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



I quoted your words, I used the literal meaning of your words.  If you want me to read your mind for some meaning in your sentences that is hidden away in you haid go pound sand.


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## holston (Apr 25, 2014)

dr.d said:


> I see...so with armed militias massing at Bundy's ranch and sharpshooters training their semiautomatics off a bridge in the Fed's direction...after him *flouting the law for 20 years and refusing multiple efforts to collect legitimate fees *in arrears...thru repeated court action ruling against him as a lawbreaker...
> ...the Feds should just drop by for a social call with arms full of flowers and candy and ask nicely...with a cherry on top ?! Whats the matter with u cons...aren't u the ones who endlessly repeat *"the laws on the books must be enforced"*?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com



 Why do you think so many of Bundy's neighbors came to his defense? Are they all freeloading, tax evading domestic terrorists or what?

 The way things are in Nevada with the ranchers are not the same as they are elsewhere. 

 Did you not read the article by Dr Pease?

Why Does the Federal Government own Nevada? | Liberty Under Fire



> Why does the federal government own Nevada? It does not own New York or Virginia or Massachusetts.





> But the problem isn&#8217;t Nevada&#8217;s alone where government owns 87.7 % of the land leaving private ownership of the state at but 12.3 %. The percentage of land owned by government exceeds fifty percent in Alaska (98.5), Idaho (63.8), Oregon (52.6), and Utah (63.6). Indeed, *the federal government claims to own a third of all the landmass in the United States *(Inventory Report on Real Property Owned by the United States Throughout the World, published by the General Services Administration, page 10).



  Do you believe that all power, authority, and property belongs in the hands of the Federal government? Communists do. 

  87% of Nevada lands constitutes the majority of it. Right?

  You don't believe that cattle ranchers who have grazed their cattle on this land since the opening of the West should take priority over the desires of the Reids to sell it to the Communist Chinese. 

 Tell me. Once this land is sold to the Chinese, does the U.S. maintain the right to buy it back?
 If not, then whose land will it be? The Chinese.   Right?

 What then if the Chinese decide to colonize the land, conduct military operations on it, or even establish military bases?
 Whose land would it be then?

 Would the US have any grounds to cry foul at that time?

 Would you people then cry out for the BLM to go in and disarm them or bust up their spying operations or whatever else they decided to do with THEIR land?

 Would you prefer US lands to be in the hands of the Chinese? Or is it that you simply prefer that any ol' Communists own it? Just how much of the land mass of the US do you believe that people like Harry Reid ought to be able to sell? A 'little"? A LOT? ALL of it??

Communism is where the State, ie the central government owns everything.
 This is what you people seem to want. Is it? 

It would seem so.
 If you didn't then you wouldn't mind so much if Bundy's cows just went right on about their business as they have for over a century. 
_Why would the BLM arrive in armored vehicles carrying automatic weapons if they had no intention of using them? _
 The only reason they would do so is with the intention of USING them in the event that Bundy resisted the confiscation or destruction of his cattle. 

 Therefore I may assume that you would approve of that action. That is to say, it would have suited you people fine if the BLM had massacred the entire Bundy family just so long as Uncle Sam got another nickel to send you, support immoral wars in the mideast, bail out Banksters and Wall Street gamblers, and provide Israel with more WEAPONS of MASS DESTRUCTION. 

 We see what is important to you. It isn't the fact that drug dealing, whoremongering, murderous Mexicans have already confiscated 36,000 acres of Arizona land, that Yomamma refuses to enforce immigration law, that Eric Holder is supplying those drug dealers with weapons and then lying about it while Yomamma releases them from jail. 

   You've made yourselves clear. You prefer to zero in on "Ol' man Bundy" and his cows. THAT is where you see the problem. 



 The point I am trying to make is that I don't care too much for what you people say about  Bundy's cows eating free grass; NOT SO LONG AS ........KING Yomamma and his henchmen are in defiance of the law themselves! 

No One Asked Me But? (April 9, 2014) - Moapa Valley Progress


> By DR. LARRY MOSES
> 
> No one asked me but&#8230; There has been a great deal of discussion about rancher Cliven Bundy and his cattle. Some people support Cliven; others support the stand the federal government, egged on by environmentalists, has taken.
> 
> ...





> NRS&#8194;568.230 states: &#8230; *&#8220;It is unlawful &#8230; (to) restrict or interfere with the customary use of the land for grazing livestock by any person* who, by himself or herself or the person&#8217;s grantors or predecessors, has become established, either exclusively or in common with others, in the grazing use of the land by operation of law or under and *in accordance with the customs of the graziers of the region involved.&#8221;*
> 
> That brings into question what does customary mean under the law? NRS&#8194;568.240 states: &#8220;Customary or* established use&#8230; to include the continuous, open, notorious, peaceable and public use of such range seasonally for a period of 5 years or longer immediately before March 30, 1931,* by the person or the person&#8217;s grantors or predecessors in interest, &#8230;Any change in customary use so established must not be made after March 30, 1931, so as to prevent, restrict or interfere with the customary or established use of any other person or persons.* NRS 568.230 to 568.290, &#8220;&#8230;does not prohibit any such established user from continuing his or her grazing use,* as established by operation of law or in accordance with such customs.&#8221; NRS&#8194;568.290 states: *&#8220;Nothing in NRS 568.230 to 568.290, inclusive, amends or repeals existing law regarding the grazing use of the public lands or of water for the purpose of watering livestock, or modifies or compromises any valid rights or priorities which exist therein on March 30, 1931.&#8221;*
> 
> ...





> *There are cattle legally being grazed by another rancher in areas being searched for Bundy&#8217;s cattle.* If the Utah cowboys round up any of those or even herd them without permission of the legal owner they are in violation of NRS 568.350 which states: &#8220;*It shall be unlawful for any person to lead, drive or in any manner remove &#8230; any head of neat cattle, &#8230; the same being the property of another person,* from the range on which they are permitted to run in common, without the consent of the owner thereof first. &#8230;Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. &#8230;such person shall be civilly liable to the owner of livestock so removed from the range for the value of all such stock and the necessary expenses incident to their return.&#8221;





> It should not come as a surprise that the federal government would ignore state law. *This same government sued the State of Arizona to stop their enforcement of federal immigration laws. By imperial decree, the federal government today is selecting which law it will or will not enforce.*


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## holston (May 6, 2014)

N4T Investigators: Rogue Mexican Army troops crossing the line | KVOA.com | Tucson, Arizona


> In January,* soldiers from this lonely outpost of the Mexican Army drew their guns on U.S. Border Patrol agents just 50 yards into the United States. Then in March, they opened fire on Javier Jose Rodriguez,* a young Tucson man visiting family in Sásabe when he was driving around the town early on a Saturday morning after drinking beers with friends. Rodriguez was shot in the arm and in the side, he spent three weeks at University of Arizona Medical Center.
> 
> The *United States' reaction has been tepid,* angering people who live and patrol along the Arizona border.
> 
> ...






> Reports obtained under the federal Freedom of Information Act show that members of Mexico's Army have crossed into the U.S. at least 300 times over the past 18 years.





> But reports show that across the entire border, soldiers have driven into Texas, landed helicopters in Texas' Rio Grande Valley and encountered Border Patrol agents within the United States.





> S*en. Coburn ordered the Homeland Security Department to produce answers* into the Mexican Army incursion by early February. A senior senate aide tells KVOA News 4, as of this week, *the agency hasn't responded *to the senator's demand.


 So where's the outrage over this?

 We have a  Department of "Homeland Security" that's amassing billions of rounds of hollow point bullets for who knows what and that gives 90% of it's funding to JEWS. 

 We have a Bureau of Land Management that can spend millions putting Nevada ranchers out of business so that some flaming Zionist Congressman's son can cut a sweetheart deal selling US lands to the Communist Chinese. 

 And then we have Attorney General "Fast and Furious" Eric Holder selling guns to Mexican drug cartels, lying about it, then defying Congress to turn over records about it. 




» Holder?s Latest Scandal: DOJ Now Pressuring Banks to Refuse Service to Gun Stores Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!



> The DoJ has been caught shipping guns to drug dealers, terrorists and gang members in Mexico under Fast and Furious, *yet Holder is targeting legitimate, lawful gun shops*. This is *completely outside of the law *and resembles the behavior of a dictatorship.





> *Operation Chokepoint* is flooding payments companies that provide processing service to those industries with subpoenas, civil investigative demands, and other burdensome and costly legal demands.
> 
> The theory behind this enforcement program has superficial logic:* increase the legal and compliance costs of serving certain disfavored merchant categories, and payments companies will simply stop providing service* to such merchants



Read more: ?Operation Choke Point? harmful to flow of commerce | TheHill
Follow us: [MENTION=27326]The[/MENTION]hill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook




 But the "libs", Marxists, and Zionists in the US are screaming for Bundy's head. 

 Aren't they the least bit concerned over the rising cost of beef, or is this a round about way of forcing us all to become mandatory Vegans?


 What gives ?


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## RKMBrown (May 6, 2014)

holston said:


> N4T Investigators: Rogue Mexican Army troops crossing the line | KVOA.com | Tucson, Arizona
> 
> 
> > In January,* soldiers from this lonely outpost of the Mexican Army drew their guns on U.S. Border Patrol agents just 50 yards into the United States. Then in March, they opened fire on Javier Jose Rodriguez,* a young Tucson man visiting family in Sásabe when he was driving around the town early on a Saturday morning after drinking beers with friends. Rodriguez was shot in the arm and in the side, he spent three weeks at University of Arizona Medical Center.
> ...


The worse off the country becomes the more people they find willing to take hand-out from the government that are taken from income earning Americans.  The more they tax the income earning Americans the less those Americans have to spend and invest.  Why work your hands to the bone just to be punished for it when you can be rewarded for not working at all? Thus because democrats benefit from destroying the country's ability and desire to produce, the democrats are doing everything they can to regulate away our ability to produce, while blaming the republicans of course.  In this case the conservatives are accused of polluting the air with non-green energy, of course everyone knows that green energy pollutes more than non-green, but that does not matter.  The word green sounds better.  In response solar power plants must be built, because they are green.  

In comes the where discussion.  On the other side of the green power discussion in the democrat party we have the kill all humans to save the planet folks, in this case save the desert turtle was raised up the flag.  This is all based on the democrat laws passed in the Carter administration allowing political action committees to sue on behalf of protected species from salamanders to eagles, from molds to trees. This issue is probably the biggest problem in this country that is being used by the lobbies and lawyers to stop all progress in America. To save the turtle the democrats had to come up with a "mitgation" strategy that would be acceptable to their save the planet from humans brethren.  The result was deciding to run all the ranchers in this area out of business.   Note: once the decision was made to run em out of business the feds lacked any enthusiasm for reversing that decision, even after the solar project was given to China. 

All around the country the libtards are gearing up for the big fight against coal scheduled for 2016, and the big fight against cow shit this year. See recent headlines for Obama's executive order plan to end dairy and meat production from cows in this country.  You see the cows fart and shit, and that causes dreaded co2 and methane gases. 

ROFL but hey it's ok cause the feds will subsidize cows and dairy from other countries using tax dollars so the democrat constituents are not affected.


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## hazlnut (May 6, 2014)

Stop calling this CRIMINAL a "Peaceful Rancher".


The GUY IS A FUCKING FEE LOADER -- sucking on the public Teat.


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## dr.d (May 7, 2014)

Yup...and a dangerous rabble rouser as well.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


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## holston (May 7, 2014)

hazlnut said:


> Stop calling this CRIMINAL a "Peaceful Rancher".
> 
> 
> The GUY IS A FUCKING FEE LOADER -- sucking on the public Teat.



 SO. You are saying that the man is not a "rancher" but rather a "criminal"?

 Does your definition extend to all the rest of the ranchers in Nevada or only those who support Bundy?

 Did you intend to say "FUCKING FEE LOADER", "FUCKING FREE LOADER", or 'FUCKING FEED LOADER"?

 Do you drink cows milk?
 Do you think that qualifies as "sucking on a teat" or do you think that a person's lips has to be directly in contact with the teats themselves first?

 From your outspokeness I take it you have a strong ideology. Would you call it pure?

 Are you unwilling to compromise on any of these points, or would you consider that to be a weakness?

 What exactly are your fundamental beliefs?

 Do you feel a need to control people through taxes and the armed forces of the government?

 Are you afraid of FUCKING FEED LOADERS?

 Do you think that this boils down to an issue between the rights of States and FUCKING FEED LOADERS vs Harry Reid's right to sell State Land to the Communist Chinese and the US Government's right to ensure this transaction takes place by armed force if necessary?

 Or do you think it is a case of The Cows vs The Turtles?


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## holston (May 7, 2014)

dr.d said:


> Yup...and a dangerous rabble rouser as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com




Yup. Them Nevada cattle ranchers, they sure are a dangerous bunch of rabbles. 

 Nothing like the peaceful BLM or the DHS and the 50 odd Swat Teams associated with every government department imaginable. 

Obama's Citizen Army

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/08/1-service.htm

http://www.infowars.com/new-obama-executive-order-seizes-u-s-infrastructure-and-citizens-for-military-preparedness/



> In a stunning move, on March 16, 2012, Barack Obama signed an Executive Order stating that the President and his specifically designated Secretaries now have the authority to commandeer all domestic U.S. resources including food and water. The EO also states that the President and his Secretaries have the authority to seize all transportation, energy, and infrastructure inside the United States as well as forcibly induct/draft American citizens into the military. The EO also contains a vague reference in regards to harnessing American citizens to fulfill &#8220;labor requirements&#8221; for the purposes of national defense.


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## holston (May 7, 2014)

Dangerous Rabble poses threat to National Security.


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## Uncensored2008 (May 7, 2014)

holston said:


> Dangerous Rabble poses threat to National Security.



You know holston, if you'd drop the Nazi shit, you'd be a good poster....


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## holston (May 7, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Dangerous Rabble poses threat to National Security.
> ...



 I'm not a Nazi. What I have to say about all the Jewish Political and Social activism in this country is just the truth. 

 Most people know little or nothing about Judaism, their culture, their race, their ethnicity, their tribalism, or even what Zionism is all about. 

 You cannot always identify a "Jew" by his appearance. 

 What concerns me about them is related to JUDAISM itself. It is not what most people would assume it to be. It is by no means  as "harmless" as they would suppose it to be or as the Jews themselves present it to be. 
 This is because it carries with it the vestiges of TALMUDISM, which has less to do with the Old Testament itself than it does the teachings of men who are the spiritual heirs to the Pharisees and Sadducees of yore.
 Because the "Jewish" culture grew out of those _traditions_ the Jews CULTURE carries with it the same baggage. Their culture is inundated with those teachings and traditions. They bear more likeness to the teachings of Machiavelli than any thing Moses or the Old Testament prophets taught. 

 What has resulted from all that is a quasi religious SOCIAL ORDER, centered around the ethnic group of  the Ashkenazim people and their mixed race offspring. The Ashkenazim themselves were originally derived from various mixtures of the Khazarian and Hebrew people and whatever else that entered the mix along the way. 

 They have maintained their ethnic and tribal identities despite the dilution of racial characteristics that has resulted from miscegination. 


 It used to be that the majority of Americans knew NOTHING about Muslims. Most of them would not have been able to tell you anything about Islam and some of them probably would not have even been able to identify it as a religion. 
 Because of the US involvement in Israel's affairs and particularly since 9/11 the majority of people ARE STILL largely IGNORANT about Islam, but they now would mostly identify it as a major religion..... A DANGEROUS ONE. 

 Not so?

  So although they have now a nodding acquaintance with Islam, and Muslims, they still are about as IGNORANT ABOUT JUDAISM as they ever were. 

 Up until 9/11 you could not have convinced most Americans that Islam was of any significance to them or that it was a force to be reckoned with. I remember when no one paid any attention to me when I mentioned the subject to them. 

 Now the same situation exists with Judaism, and "Jews" as it did then for Islam and Muslims. 

 People in the US can no longer afford to ignore EITHER of these religions BECAUSE they are not merely writings contained in books somewhere. They are represented by substantial masses of people who live according to their tenets and act on them both POLITICALLY AND SOCIALLY. 

*Those who think that Judaism is nothing but an innocuous blip on the religious radar screen are ill informed. It is far more than that. It has become a MAJOR POLITICAL force and force for SOCIAL CHANGE. 
 In fact, the US government is now overwhelmingly under the influence and directives of people who are of the JUDAIC and ZIONIST persuasions.

 This is not "anti-Semitic" to say so. It is merely a statement of FACT. *

 Non Jews can no more ignore the influence of Jewish ORGANIZATION than they can Muslim organization. 
 Both of these entities now exist within the boarders of the US. The difference is that the influence and control of the US by proponents and practitioners of JUDAISM far and away outstrips that of any other religion or ethnic control.  
 To say that they are here now and must be dealt with accordingly is no more "racist" than saying that there are at least 20 million illegal immigrants in the US. 
 The difference is that any dummy can easily recognize an ordinary Mexican by his racial features. 
 When I speak of a "Jew" I am talking about a group of people who often so closely resemble Anglo Saxon people that the majority of non-Jews cannot tell the difference.

 This does not mean that Jews are unable to tell the difference themselves. Indeed they are the most keenly aware of those differences. A similarity in appearance doesn't necessarily imply any similarity in ideology, political or religious belief, or any other factor which would influence behavior. Can you tell the difference between say, a "Republican and a Democrat" by their appearance. I am not saying that there is any longer a practical difference between the two, but only if there was. 

 If there is no difference between a Jew and a non-Jew, then what pray tell IS the difference? IF there is no difference, then WHY would a person have any need to denote any distinction when none is there? Why would a person call himself a Jew if there was nothing about the title which would distinguish itself from any other?

 So what I am speaking of largely pertains to AN IDEOLOGY, both POLITICAL and SOCIAL, and a RELIGIOUS MIND SET that has deep roots in the CULTURE of Jews and carries with it both ethnic and racial aspects. 

 Is it "anti-Semitic" of me to identify them as Jews when they identify themselves as such?

 Why for example would it be "anti-Semitic" of me to call Ruth Ginsberg or Elana Kagan Jews if they call themselves that?


 The reason why so many people resort to calling others "Nazi" or "anti-Semite" whenever they hear someone speak critically of them is because they have been conditioned by years and years of media and educational conditioning. It never occurs to them that there could be any other reason why a non Jew would even mention it other than some secret desire to load them all into cattle cars and have them gassed.  

 There IS! ( I'm not referring to my secret desire to have Ginsberg and Kagan gassed with cow farts.)

 ANY ORGANIZATION which exists to induce changes into the POLITICAL scene, the SOCIAL climate, or alter the demographic landscape of this country or otherwise revamp it's legal system must be dealt with according to those terms. 

 In other words, any organization which seeks to effects those types of changes and lobbies and promotes the same, whether on TV, movies , advertising, in Universities, public schools or by any other means, opens itself up to the same scrutiny, criticism, and public awareness as the like of Clivan Bundy does. 

 Is that not a fair proposal to you?

 Or do you believe that JEWISH LOBBIES and POLITICAL ACTIVIST groups such as the ADL, the JDL, The World Jewish Congress, Chabbad Lubavitch, or the Bnai Brith should be allowed to continue their work and intervention into all aspects of government and society without any oversight or public scrutiny at all?

 If you think that they can simply be ignored without incurring any risk at all, then you are ignoring the fact that 9/11 and the resulting invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan were a direct result of the UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT of APARTHEID ISRAEL in foreign affairs. And this unconditional support was a direct result of the influence of JEWISH MONEY and JEWISH LOBBIES.


 In short, ALL the JEWISH organizations have ONE THING IN COMMON;
   THEY ARE ALL JEWISH.

 This means that it's members lobby on behalf of JEWS. 

 Doesn't that smack of "racism" and religious advocacy to you?


 So what makes me a "Nazi" for calling attention to the inordinate amount of influence they are exerting on US POLITICS and SOCIETY?

 Is it because that the "Jews" would rather that I did not do so?
 If not, then why would they object?
 Is there any reason why they would prefer to go unnoticed?


 If you are inclined to take them at face value as they project their public image, then would you be as considerate towards those Islamic institutions which present themselves to the public as being charitable institutions as well? You are aware that the media has charged that some Mosques and ostensible Muslim charities have served only as fronts for religious extremism aren't you? And you have heard of cases in which certain men calling themselves "Ministers of Christ" did the most un-Christian things haven't you?

 Do you believe it would be offensive to question the motives, intentions, or activities of anyone who presented an outward appearance of working solely in the interest of charity or as a benevolence so long as they assumed a "Christian" name?

 Would a tank be any less of a tank if I painted it pink and put flowers on it?


 I'm just trying to get people to think about who is calling all the shots in this country and why it is poised on the verge of bankruptcy, totalitarianism, and total self destruction. 

 It is no more racist of me to suggest that there may be "Jews" and Zionist ideologues among the ranks of that hidden cabal than it would be if I was trying to lay the entire blame at the feet of the Clintons, the Bushes or even Yomamma! I'm not trying to pick on the "Jews" per say as much as I want to get at their ring leaders. It's about cutting off the head of the snake so that the body dies with it. 

  I think it is dangerous to allow one particular group immunity to prosecution or even simple criticism based upon their ethnic or religious identity. And I am not asking for any special protection under the law in the event that I am caught committing an illegal, unethical, or immoral act. If someone robs or assaults me, then I only expect the law to administer justice in the prescribed manner as it would for anyone else. I am not calling for legislation which would punish those who offend me with additional severity. 

 No one thinks there is anything wrong with calling the hand of a hypocrite or Charlatan just because he is using the name of Christ to mask his con games.  The same SHOULD BE said about Jewish, black, or Mexican crooks. 

 So save your "Nazi" and racist epithets for someone who really deserves it. Judaism is no less important as a topic for discussion and no less potent than something like Marxism than the dangers of cows stepping on turtles or mooching Harry Reid's grass. The entire Bolshevik revolution was based around it, and that resulted in a great deal of bloodshed. 

 I hope this country doesn't erupt in a civil war just because some people don't like the idea of eating hamburgers. Just look at those poor cows. What did they ever do to you?


----------



## Nutz (May 7, 2014)

holston said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > holston said:
> ...



...da evil Joo is gonna git you!  

You are the best entertainment ever.  (Please don't respond with a 10,000 word essay, I don't care.  You have already defined yourself).  LOL, a thread about Bundy and you are talking about Jews.  What a fucking joke!


----------



## holston (May 8, 2014)

Nutz said:


> holston said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



 I was accused of being a "Nazi". What did THAT have to do with Bundy?

 I explained why I wasn't. There was no joke about it. The inordinate influence of Marxists and Jewish Supremacists over our government and US society as a whole is no joke either. 

 You can't cure a disease by treating the symptoms. 

 Anyone who wants to put a halt to incursions of Federal powers over states and the systematic attacks being made upon white middle class America needs to address the source of the problem. 

 The conflict over Nevada lands between the BLM and Bundy did not originate with the armed men who were sent to confiscate Bundy's cattle. 
 The ranchers who came to Bundy's defense recognize a broader problem which extends beyond Bundy's case. 

 The increasing tendency towards Socialism and Centralization of all power to the Federal Government is directly related to the loss in State's autonomy. 
  The case of Arizona attempting to enforce it's immigration laws and being threatened with law suits and the interjection of Federal forces provides another instance of this. 

 The situation involving Bundy can no more be viewed in isolation of the events which preceded it than Lexington Square could with British attempts to confiscate arms or Fort Sumter with arguments over the South's constitutional right to secede from the Union and Northern attempts to provoke war. 

 People who are unable to see the Zionist hand in current events need to have it revealed to them. 

 The people objecting to Bundy's cattle grazing are more concerned with the collection of taxes according to what they saying. The high rate of taxation and efforts of representatives of the Federal government to exercise dominion over all US land is not unrelated to the Socialists attempts to centralize power and place control over all business and property into the hands of the ruling oligarchy. 
  These are Marxist ambitions. It so happens that Jews are traditionally Marxist/Bolshevik and that they happen to wield the most political clout in the US. 

 So there is no way to avoid dealing with the problem at it's root without allowing it to occur over and over again and reappearing first here and then there.


----------



## Nutz (May 8, 2014)

holston said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> > holston said:
> ...



I will repeat myself...

...da evil Joo is gonna git you!

You are the best entertainment ever. (Please don't respond with a 10,000 word essay, I don't care. You have already defined yourself). LOL, a thread about Bundy and you are talking about Jews. What a fucking joke!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (May 8, 2014)

holston said:


> I was accused of being a "Nazi". What did THAT have to do with Bundy?



You are a Nazi, and it's too bad.

It's also bizarre - JOOOOOOOOOOO hatred is uniquely left-wing.



> I explained why I wasn't. There was no joke about it. The inordinate influence of Marxists and Jewish Supremacists over our government and US society as a whole is no joke either.



Nazi rhetoric fails to support your claim that you're not a Nazi... 




> You can't cure a disease by treating the symptoms.
> 
> Anyone who wants to put a halt to incursions of Federal powers over states and the systematic attacks being made upon white middle class America needs to address the source of the problem.



Anyone who thinks that the issue with the nation is a secret cabal of JOOOOOOOZZZ is mentally unstable.



> The conflict over Nevada lands between the BLM and Bundy did not originate with the armed men who were sent to confiscate Bundy's cattle.



True, it originated with Harry Reid, a MORMON and a mobster. Some of the Vegas hoods in the 60's may have been left over from Bugsy Seagals gang, but that is as close to JOOOOOOOOOO as Reid gets.



> The ranchers who came to Bundy's defense recognize a broader problem which extends beyond Bundy's case.
> 
> The increasing tendency towards Socialism and Centralization of all power to the Federal Government is directly related to the loss in State's autonomy.
> The case of Arizona attempting to enforce it's immigration laws and being threatened with law suits and the interjection of Federal forces provides another instance of this.
> ...



Again, if you drop the Nazi shit, you'll be a top notch poster. Everything quoted is spot-on.



> People who are unable to see the Zionist hand in current events need to have it revealed to them.



And here you go off the rails.

The Muzzie Beasts are not your ally - why you think they are is a mystery.



> The people objecting to Bundy's cattle grazing are more concerned with the collection of taxes according to what they saying. The high rate of taxation and efforts of representatives of the Federal government to exercise dominion over all US land is not unrelated to the Socialists attempts to centralize power and place control over all business and property into the hands of the ruling oligarchy.
> These are Marxist ambitions. It so happens that Jews are traditionally Marxist/Bolshevik and that they happen to wield the most political clout in the US.



Then why isn't Israel a Marxist state? Are JOOOOZZZZ running Cuba? North Korea? Venezuela? 



> So there is no way to avoid dealing with the problem at it's root without allowing it to occur over and over again and reappearing first here and then there.



You get close to reality, but you are distracted by Nazi idiocy, so you lose all credibility.


----------



## ClosedCaption (May 8, 2014)

holston said:


> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> > Stop calling this CRIMINAL a "Peaceful Rancher".
> ...




Doesnt matter Bundy is a law breaker no matter who considers other ranchers anything


----------



## Camp (May 8, 2014)

Are those militia dudes on there way to Nebraska to stand up for the farmers being forced to give up their land for the Keystone Pipeline? They didn't show up in Texas or any of the other places that fought having their land taken away for a pipeline. Guess it's OK if big oil and big business is taking the land.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (May 8, 2014)

Camp said:


> Are those militia dudes on there way to Nebraska to stand up for the farmers being forced to give up their land for the Keystone Pipeline? They didn't show up in Texas or any of the other places that fought having their land taken away for a pipeline. Guess it's OK if big oil and big business is taking the land.



Which farmers are these, Comrade?


----------



## peach174 (May 8, 2014)

Camp said:


> Are those militia dudes on there way to Nebraska to stand up for the farmers being forced to give up their land for the Keystone Pipeline? They didn't show up in Texas or any of the other places that fought having their land taken away for a pipeline. Guess it's OK if big oil and big business is taking the land.



They are getting paid for the land use.
The pipe is buried 4 ft into the ground.
They can still use their land.

What they are fighting is possible oil spills.


----------



## RKMBrown (May 8, 2014)

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > Are those militia dudes on there way to Nebraska to stand up for the farmers being forced to give up their land for the Keystone Pipeline? They didn't show up in Texas or any of the other places that fought having their land taken away for a pipeline. Guess it's OK if big oil and big business is taking the land.
> ...



Meh...  I have power lines over my property where's my "risk" entitlement check?


----------



## Camp (May 8, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > Are those militia dudes on there way to Nebraska to stand up for the farmers being forced to give up their land for the Keystone Pipeline? They didn't show up in Texas or any of the other places that fought having their land taken away for a pipeline. Guess it's OK if big oil and big business is taking the land.
> ...



The ones that got told they didn't have control of their property and their wishes were being over ruled and ignored because big business with help from the government had the right to use their land the way they wanted. Hence, they have been and are being forced to give up their private property rights.
Some of the ones in Texas are  Julia Trigg Crawford and Michael Bishop. In Nebraska, Randy Thomson and Ronald Weber.


----------



## holston (May 9, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> You are a Nazi, and it's too bad.



 No I'm not and it's too bad that you don't understand that. 

 I can see why you would think that. I tried to explain why that isn't so but you missed something in the translation.
 It would take a great deal of time and space to make things plain to you because you, like most people have been indoctrinated all your lives with the Politically Correct fare coming out of the media, Hollywood , and promoted in public schools. That is what you are familiar with and mistake the familiarity with some form of immutable truth. 





Uncensored2008 said:


> It's also bizarre - JOOOOOOOOOOO hatred is uniquely left-wing.


 
 Not true. Jews are traditionally "left wing". I can show you or you can look it up yourself provided you are interested more in the truth than merely conforming to public consensus of opinion. 

 The "left, right" paradigm is losing it's meaning in the US as far as practical politics. 
There is only an illusion of a two party system as far as what gets done. The people in office more or less work for the highest bidder. 

 A truly principled person like a Ron Paul or a Pat Buchanan doesn't stand a chance in the present system. That's because it is mostly controlled by the wealthy oligarchs, a majority of whom either are Zionist banksters or in bed with them. 





> I explained why I wasn't. There was no joke about it.* The inordinate influence of Marxists and Jewish Supremacists over our government and US society *as a whole is no joke either.





Uncensored2008 said:


> Nazi rhetoric fails to support your claim that you're not a Nazi...



 There is nothing "Nazi" about what I said if it happens to be true. 
 You are failing to see the difference. 

 If a thing is true then it is true regardless of who says it. Therefore a person does not have to be a "Nazi" in order to state the truth just because some aspects of the truth happen to correlate with some things that some people once said who were called by others by that name. 

 "Nazi" originally was shorthand for National Socialist and was coined by those who intended it to be a derogatory term. Now days it is used as a slur to discredit those who are critical of Jewish/Zionist activities and is used to preempt any discussion or debate which might shed light on those activities or discourage others from mindlessly following the Zionist agenda. 





Uncensored2008 said:


> Anyone who thinks that the issue with the nation is a secret cabal of JOOOOOOOZZZ is mentally unstable.


 
 That's what the Socialist/Communist Party said about many of their political enemies and they used that "diagnosis" to send them to "institutions" (gulags) where they would be out of the way and punished for their mental and vocal transgressions against the state. 

 Psychiatry has been called "the Jewish Science" in honor of one of it's founders in chief, Sigmund Freud. 
 If you really believe that Jews are not political you are grossly mistaken. This can easily be discovered by anyone with eyes in his head and the willingness to see what is in front of him. 




Uncensored2008 said:


> True, it originated with Harry Reid, a MORMON and a mobster. Some of the Vegas hoods in the 60's may have been left over from Bugsy Seagals gang, but that is as close to JOOOOOOOOOO as Reid gets.



 There is an interesting relation between Mormons and Jews. For starters they both recognize Saturday as the day in which they are supposed to worship God. The Mormons use a scripturally unauthorized book as the definitive authority of God. The Jews do also, only not the same one. 
 It is noteworthy that Sheldon Adelson, one of the US biggest political contributors, a "Jew", and interestingly enough also an owner of some of Las Vegas's prime Casinos, which you appear to know have traditionally been in hands of gangsters happens to be a good bud of Reid!
 So it is incorrect to say there is no Jewish connection.  



Harry Reid?s Curious Soft Spot for Sheldon Adelson - The Daily Beast



> * Harry Reids Curious Soft Spot for Sheldon Adelson*





> With approximately 1,000 students and others filling Artemus W. Ham Concert Hall, Adelson held forth on his business philosophy and rise to power as a casino titan. When the topic briefly turned to partisan politics, staunch *Republican Adelson raised eyebrows when he expressed affection and respect for Reid.*
> 
> * Believe it or not, Im a Republican but Im still very friendly with Harry Reid, Adelson said, adding that he had great respect for the Senate majority leader.*
> 
> ...



 It should go without saying that Jews are never into anything for the money. They are in it mostly because they have strongly held ideologies. 

 If you are unfamiliar with Judaism, it is at this point that you should take it upon yourself to investigate what Jews believe and whether those beliefs influence their decisions in other areas of their lives. 
 Then you should ask yourself whether a "Jew" would be more likely to place his Jewish values over any others. If so, then you should learn what those values are and all that they entail. 

 Now Mr Adelson claims he is a "Republican". Jews are notorious for altering the meanings of terms to suit their own purposes. What is meant now days by "Republican" is really NEO-CON. 

 The Neo-Cons have usurped the GOP just as they did the Democratic party. 

 Look up who are the biggest financial contributors to both parties. If you think this money comes with no strings attached then you are a bigger fool than I am. 

 And you will notice that Harry Reid stated from his own "liberal" mouth, not only his affection for the Casino magnate, but also that Adelson's politics are remarkably similar to his own. 

 So is Reid soft on "Republicans" or exactly what did he mean by this? 

 The take home lesson here is nothing new. Politics makes strange bedfellows. What may come as a surprise to you is that often what goes on behind public view is not always announced by the players in question, and for good reason. 
 There are some things which these folks would rather the public not be privy to. 
Their relations and connections may be hidden because to make them known would defeat the purpose of having them in the first place. 

 There is one face a politician presents to the public and another which is seen only behind closed doors. 

 The appearance of things do not always betray their true nature. In the affairs of men, this is often deliberately so.

 The Jews have used non-Jews many many times in order to carry their agendas. In this way they present a face to the public to represent causes which may be unpopular or which they do not wish to be identified with. 

 Woodrow Wilson and the Federal Reserve is one. FD Roosevelt and "the New Deal" is another. 










Uncensored2008 said:


> Again, if you drop the Nazi shit, you'll be a top notch poster. Everything quoted is spot-on.



 Drop what "Nazi shit"? Be specific!  I only write what I believe to be true. If someone calling himself by any other name happens to agree or something I say happens to elide with something someone else has said, that is only by coincidence. 

 Believe it or not, there are many things which many Jews may have said which I would agree with. In fact, there is probably not a man or woman alive with whom I would be in total disagreement on everything , no matter how hostile they were towards me or how much I might dislike them myself. By the same token, it is just as doubtful that there is a many or woman alive with whom I would always totally agree on everything no matter how much I may even love them. 

 This is simply because no two people are exactly alike. We should all learn to accept that fact and learn to work with it rather than always immediately reacting to every disagreement as though it required that we square off into opposing teams and try to do away with each other. 

 I have no personal animosity towards "Jews" per say, anymore than I do anyone else in particular. 
 But I am forced to identify them collectively as the political entity which they themselves represent. Should I include a complete roster of every man, woman, and child among them with whom I "approve" or "disapprove" every time I use the term "Jew" or Jewish to refer to the sum total of them?
 That would be a little ridiculous aside from prohibitively cumbersome. To be forced to do so would prohibit making any reference to them at all, now wouldn't it?
 And the inability to mention the name they have chosen for themselves would make it impossible to refer to them in a political, religious, or social sense whether it was to criticize or praise now wouldn't it?

 You, like so many others, have been conditioned to think that anytime you hear someone speak of the Jewish Lobbies or Judaism in any other context than to talk about how great they are or how they have been oppressed above every other people on earth,  he just has to be some disciple of Hitler who is plotting to reinstate the third Reich and send all the Jews to death camps. 

 This is ridiculous. The only thing that prevents you and others from seeing how ridiculous it is is the years brainwash you've been forced to endure on TV and in movies. 








Uncensored2008 said:


> The Muzzie Beasts are not your ally - why you think they are is a mystery.



 What?!

 Where in hell did THAT come from?
 I don't think I said a word about Muslims.

 This is just another premature conclusion you jumped to which clearly indicates the extent to which you have been indoctrinated. 



> The people objecting to Bundy's cattle grazing are more concerned with the collection of taxes according to what they saying. *The high rate of taxation and efforts of representatives of the Federal government to exercise dominion over all US land is not unrelated to the Socialists attempts to centralize power and place control over all business and property into the hands of the ruling oligarchy. *
> * These are Marxist ambitions. It so happens that Jews are traditionally Marxist/Bolshevik *and that they happen to wield the most political clout in the US.





Uncensored2008 said:


> Then why isn't Israel a Marxist state? Are JOOOOZZZZ running Cuba? North Korea? Venezuela?



 Who is getting off track now?

 Should I go into a discussion on the nature of the Israeli government now just to deflect your accusations? Or would that be required in order to substantiate my contentions about Zionist influence in the US?

 In order to answer this question, you need to know more about the varieties of Jews there are. This takes time to learn. But it would help you to understand more about Israel if you understood Judaism itself. The situation in Judaism is similar but not exactly analogous to "Christianity" in that there are many "denominations" of it. 
 For the time being, suffice it to say that the religion of "Judaism/Zionism" has far more influence over the nation of Israel than "Christianity" does over the US. 
 Of the two, Israel would be much closer to the definition of a theocracy. 

 Marxism, you may know, was founded by Karl Marx, whose Father was a Rabbi as I recall. At any rate, he was a Jew. If you look in Jewish literature, you will discover the leftist and Socialist leanings of the Jews as a people and the role they played in the Bolshevik Revolution which led to the establishment of the former Soviet Union. 





> So there is no way to avoid dealing with the problem at it's root without allowing it to occur over and over again and reappearing first here and then there.





Uncensored2008 said:


> You get close to reality, but you are distracted by Nazi idiocy, so you lose all credibility.



  Nothing of the kind. If anything, I could say that it is YOU who are denying reality, except that I am not sure that you are even aware of many of the things I have been trying to tell you. There is a difference between honest ignorance and willful denial. 

 You could discover these things yourself if you took the time to study a little about Judaism and delve into their history in Europe and the US. 

 They claim to be descendants of Abraham in the Old Testament. 

 Do you believe that?

 If not, would it be "anti-Semitic" of you to say so? 
 They would say you were!

 The simple truth is that they would call you "anti-Semitic" for refusing to believe that they are "God's Chosen people". They would call you "anti-Semitic" if you believed that the US should stop sending Israel billions or allowing them to sell US technology and weapons to places like CHINA!

 They say that the only reason that Jonathon Pollard is in prison is because he is a Jew!

 They would call you "anti-Semitic" for literally HUNDREDS of other reasons, among them :

   That Israel is the worst spy on the US
   That Israelis deliberately tried to sink the USS Liberty and kill all it's occupants
   That Jews occupy an inordinate number of seats on the Supreme Court, in positions of power, lucrative careers, in the Federal Reserve, in the World Bank, the IMF, and Wall Street
   That Judaism is a Supremacist religion
   That Jews run Hollywood
   That Jews have profited from bootlegging and pornography more than anyone
   That Jews have led the fight to do away with US restrictions on immigration
   That Jews lead the homosexual lobby
    That Jews seek to destroy Christian iconography and remove the mention of it from public venues, including symbols of Christmas
   That Israel is an apartheid state
   That they are in violation of UN mandates
    That they are stealing land which does not belong to them
    and etc

  You ask about Cuba and Korea. Why aren't the Jews running those countries? 

 I can tell you for certain that they would if they could. They've played a larger role in Mexico and other South American countries than you might think. Many people do not realize that many Jews left Spain during the inquisition and settled in Mexico posing as Catholics. This is called "crypto Judaim' or 'hidden' Judaism. A similar situation within the Catholic Church in Spain had much to do with the Inquisition. The Inquisitors were trying to flush the imposters out by discovering who they were. 

 Fortunately Jews are not the supermen they purport to be. But if you are unfamiliar with Judaism as you appear to be, you should look up Jewish eschatology. 

 This refers to the beliefs that Jews share about the end times. In short, the Jews believe that at some time a "Messiah" will come which will establish the Jews as the rulers of the world. They call this "the Mashianic Age". All Jews are instructed to work for it. Unlike Christians, the Jews believe that they can cause this to come about. 

 I've take a great deal of time and space to introduce you to these subjects because you put the problem to me. 

 As I explained before, I would not have made any mention about our creeping Socialist Totalitarianism or the Jewish/Zionist role in it if I did not see the conflict Nevada ranchers are embroiled in as being related to a national agenda. 

 I have attempted to point out that there are far more serious problems this country faces than the few missing tax dollars which Bundy is alleged to owe. 
 That money is not a pittance of what has been stolen from the US treasury by the Bankster Cabal courtesy of the Federal Reserve. 

 It should be of greater concern to us that a US Senator is trying to sell US lands to the Communist Chinese and is using the force of the BLM to do so. 
  The fact that the Mexican army is making frequent incursions into the US to take pot shots at US Boarder Security on behalf of Mexican drug Cartels should bother any US citizen who isn't an avowed Marxist himself.


----------



## Nutz (May 9, 2014)

Give it up Holstein.  You are defined.  You are a racist pussy.  It doesn't matter how many long winded manifestos you write...we know what you are.


----------



## holston (May 9, 2014)

Nutz said:


> Give it up Holstein.  You are defined.  You are a racist pussy.  It doesn't matter how many long winded manifestos you write...we know what you are.



 And we know you a MuFukka.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (May 9, 2014)

Camp said:


> The ones that got told they didn't have control of their property and their wishes were being over ruled and ignored because big business with help from the government had the right to use their land the way they wanted. Hence, they have been and are being forced to give up their private property rights.
> Some of the ones in Texas are  Julia Trigg Crawford and Michael Bishop. In Nebraska, Randy Thomson and Ronald Weber.



So, you  got nothing then? No complaints or protests you can link to? 

Yeah, we knew that.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (May 9, 2014)

holston said:


> No I'm not and it's too bad that you don't understand that.
> 
> I can see why you would think that. I tried to explain why that isn't so but you missed something in the translation.



I'm not going to address your whole post. While I don't usually redact backquotes, your rambling leaves little other choice.



> Not true. Jews are traditionally "left wing". I can show you or you can look it up yourself provided you are interested more in the truth than merely conforming to public consensus of opinion.



Left wing like Murray Rothbard? Like Ayn Rand? 

Pull away from Stormfront and educate yourself, you look like a fool spewing such idiocy.



> The "left, right" paradigm is losing it's meaning in the US as far as practical politics.
> There is only an illusion of a two party system as far as what gets done. The people in office more or less work for the highest bidder.



Left v. right is more divided than anytime in this nation's history. The parties may not mean much, but if you can't grasp the divide between the capitalist, liberty minded right, and the collectivist authoritarians on the left, you are truly clueless.



> A truly principled person like a Ron Paul or a Pat Buchanan doesn't stand a chance in the present system. That's because it is mostly controlled by the wealthy oligarchs, a majority of whom either are Zionist banksters or in bed with them.



Ron Paul points to Murray Rothbard, a JOOOOOO, as the foundation of his political and economic views - you display your ignorance by spewing Nazi shit while claiming to support Paul.



> There is nothing "Nazi" about what I said if it happens to be true.
> You are failing to see the difference.



Uh, quotes from "Mein Kampf" are Nazi by nature.



> "Nazi" originally was shorthand for National Socialist and was coined by those who intended it to be a derogatory term. Now days it is used as a slur to discredit those who are critical of Jewish/Zionist activities and is used to preempt any discussion or debate which might shed light on those activities or discourage others from mindlessly following the Zionist agenda.



No, you ignorant fool, that is not at all true.

Nazi is an acronym for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei,  the German National Socialist Workers Party. Your little god Hitler was a socialist, a collectivist. Deal with the horror.




> There is an interesting relation between Mormons and Jews. For starters they both recognize Saturday as the day in which they are supposed to worship God. The Mormons use a scripturally unauthorized book as the definitive authority of God. The Jews do also, only not the same one.



BWAHAHAHAHAHA

You know nothing about either religion.

You read moronic shit from hate sites and think it's all true.



> It should go without saying that Jews are never into anything for the money. They are in it mostly because they have strongly held ideologies.



You are bigot - thus you lack the wits to examine the facts before you.

Your stupid notion of monolithic "JOOOOOOOness" is the stuff of retards, i.e. bigots. I grew up as a Christian kid in a Jewish neighborhood. There was sure the hell no unity. The Orthodox hated the reformed. The conservatives thought the reformed were radicals and the Orthodox were nuts. Even among the conservatives, there were a dozen factions. Jews are no more unified than Protestants are.



> If you are unfamiliar with Judaism, it is at this point that you should take it upon yourself to investigate what Jews believe and whether those beliefs influence their decisions in other areas of their lives.



Actually, why don't you try learning something legitimate? Turn away from Stormfront and the other Nazi websites and actually learn what Judaism is? You make Archie Bunker look informed.



> Then you should ask yourself whether a "Jew" would be more likely to place his Jewish values over any others. If so, then you should learn what those values are and all that they entail.



You should ask yourself if a Christian would.


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## Camp (May 9, 2014)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAoBx4SXOTc]BOLD Nebraska - Randy Thompson - YouTube[/ame]


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## Camp (May 9, 2014)

Ranchers' Land In Nebraska Becomes Ground Zero In Energy Fight : NPR


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## Uncensored2008 (May 9, 2014)

Camp said:


> Ranchers' Land In Nebraska Becomes Ground Zero In Energy Fight : NPR



Okay, but that doesn't show eminent domain or other infringement of peoples land. Opposition to the Keystone XL isn't very similar to the Bundy situation.


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## Camp (May 9, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > Ranchers' Land In Nebraska Becomes Ground Zero In Energy Fight : NPR
> ...



What do you mean it doesn't show infringement of peoples land. That is exactly what it shows. In the case of Bundy, his land wasn't being infringed upon. The issue is with public lands that he has had access to and is now being denied. But the land in question was never "his" land. Other than the threat of the loss of his land in a legal battle, no one has told Bundy how he could or couldn't use his land.
In the case of the pipeline, the governments (STATE AND FEDERAL) have stepped in and are demanding these people give up certain control of the land they own. They drew a map where they wanted the pipeline to go and pushed the wishes of the landowners aside. 
Bundy and his cause was a scam. The supporters were scammed into fighting for a deadbeat over public lands that the taxpayers are supposed to be paid for. Our employees were abused by people who didn't really give a crap about property rights. They were just using the issue for their own political agenda, even it it did't really fit.
The place to fight over government intervention in property rights is wherever the pipeline wants to go and the people who own the private property object to it infringing on their property. But the people behind the pipeline are the same people who finance the the folks who supported and continue to support Bundy. Tea Party = Big Oil.


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## Uncensored2008 (May 9, 2014)

Camp said:


> What do you mean it doesn't show infringement of peoples land. That is exactly what it shows. In the case of Bundy, his land wasn't being infringed upon. The issue is with public lands that he has had access to and is now being denied. But the land in question was never "his" land. Other than the threat of the loss of his land in a legal battle, no one has told Bundy how he could or couldn't use his land.
> In the case of the pipeline, the governments (STATE AND FEDERAL) have stepped in and are demanding these people give up certain control of the land they own. They drew a map where they wanted the pipeline to go and pushed the wishes of the landowners aside.
> Bundy and his cause was a scam. The supporters were scammed into fighting for a deadbeat over public lands that the taxpayers are supposed to be paid for. Our employees were abused by people who didn't really give a crap about property rights. They were just using the issue for their own political agenda, even it it did't really fit.
> The place to fight over government intervention in property rights is wherever the pipeline wants to go and the people who own the private property object to it infringing on their property. But the people behind the pipeline are the same people who finance the the folks who supported and continue to support Bundy. Tea Party = Big Oil.



You didn't read your own article. The issue is concern of leakage into the Ogallala aquifer. An easement to run the underground pipes has no impact on anything.

{TransCanada says it will submit a new proposal to the U.S. government next year. The proposed route, the company says, won't go through the Sandhills.}

Seriously dude, you're trying to fit a stapler in a hole made for a marble...


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## Camp (May 9, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > What do you mean it doesn't show infringement of peoples land. That is exactly what it shows. In the case of Bundy, his land wasn't being infringed upon. The issue is with public lands that he has had access to and is now being denied. But the land in question was never "his" land. Other than the threat of the loss of his land in a legal battle, no one has told Bundy how he could or couldn't use his land.
> ...



It explains why private property owners don't want the pipeline crossing their lands.

http://landownersagainstthranscanadapipeline.org

Are you seriously trying to make an issue that landowners aren't protesting the pipeline or that they don't have an issue, but Bundy does?


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## holston (May 9, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> I'm not going to address your whole post. While I don't usually redact backquotes, your rambling leaves little other choice.





> Not true. Jews are traditionally "left wing". I can show you or you can look it up yourself provided you are interested more in the truth than merely conforming to public consensus of opinion.





Uncensored2008 said:


> Left wing like Murray Rothbard? Like Ayn Rand?


 
 Jews contribute the most money to both Democratic and Republican parties than anyone. 
You are the fool if you think that this money comes with no strings attached. 

 The NEO-CONS do not represent the same interests or principles of the "Paleo-Conservatives. Where do you think those terms come from?
  It was Jews who formed the Neo-Con Party.

  The Jews have positioned themselves to play both sides of the fence. A Do Do should be able to see the advantage to this. 




Socialism


> For a variety of reasons Jews were attracted to socialism as it developed in Western Europe. Some regarded it as the building of a "just society" based on the teachings of the Bible and the Prophets, while others were attracted by its revolutionary nature. Thus, while some Jews saw socialism as a reply to antisemitism, there were also Jews who saw in it a way of getting rid of their Jewish heritage and serving the cause of the "Brotherhood of Man." Socialism was particularly attractive for Jews anxious to leave the ghetto behind them and who, disappointed with the slow progress of 19th-century liberalism, were keen to embrace a new universal faith.



 The amount of material available to support the thesis that the Jews over-all have been Socialists and "leftist" is too extensive to post. 




Uncensored2008 said:


> Pull away from Stormfront and educate yourself, you look like a fool spewing such idiocy.



 I don't associate with Stormfront. The information I have learned about the Jews can be derived from Jewish sources alone. 




Uncensored2008 said:


> Left v. right is more divided than anytime in this nation's history. The parties may not mean much, but if you can't grasp the divide between the capitalist, liberty minded right, and the collectivist authoritarians on the left, you are truly clueless.



 While it is true that there are still Blue Dog Democrats who believe that the Democratic party hasn't changed since the Civil War and Republican who likewise are ignorant of the parties new management, the fact remains that Jews dominate both parties. 

 This helps to explain why no matter who gets appointed to the White House, national policies have continued on their present course since Papa Bush 'til now. 
Despite the great shuckin' and jivin' show which simulates fierce rivalry, this appearance is created for mass consumption. 
While the masses may be sincere in their political ideologies, the decisions of the ruling class are not based upon the will of the people. That is something they have to work around. 




Uncensored2008 said:


> Ron Paul points to Murray Rothbard, a JOOOOOO, as the foundation of his political and economic views - you display your ignorance by spewing Nazi shit while claiming to support Paul.


 
 I consider Ron Paul to be the closest thing to a man who is what he represents himself to be that I know of on the national stage. While I do not consider myself a Libertarian, I was drawn to him because of his determination to expose the Federal Reserve and his opposition to the unending campaign of war in the mideast and his frank refusal to genuflect before the Zionist political machine. 

 You saw how they shut him down didn't you, despite his overwhelming popularity in various places? And you saw how the Neo-Cons stuck their Stooge Bush in the White House to take the flack for 9/11? 
 The last I heard, the two most viable candidates to run for office after the reign of King Yomamma runs it's course will include yet another member of the Bush dynasty and Hillary Clinton. 
 If you think that either of those "choices" would make a difference as far as pushing the "Project for a Jew American Century" to it's next stage, you are fooling yourself, not me. 






Uncensored2008 said:


> Uh, quotes from "Mein Kampf" are Nazi by nature.



 If you can find any quotes from Mein Kampf then post them. Otherwise you are making more false allegations. Once people realize that you are deliberately misrepresenting me, then it is YOU who will lose credibility, if they are fair minded at all. 




Uncensored2008 said:


> No, you ignorant fool, that is not at all true.
> Nazi is an acronym for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei,  the German National Socialist Workers Party. Your little god Hitler was a socialist, a collectivist. Deal with the horror.



 Let's check and see........ "N",  "D",  "A". 
Hmm. Either "NDA" does not equate to "N", "A", "Z", "I" or one of us has his definition of acronym wrong. 

 But enough with the "Nazi shit", OK? I've answered that charge twice already and you refuse to accept my answer. That's if you even read it at all. 





Uncensored2008 said:


> BWAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You know nothing about either religion.
> 
> You read moronic shit from hate sites and think it's all true.



 I beg your pardon. I've learned quite a bit about Judaism. I know a great deal more about Christianity though. 

 There is one thing certain about both:   Judaism does NOT equal Christianity. 

 There is nothing Christian about Judaism other than the false claim by Jews that Christianity owes it's existence to them. 




Uncensored2008 said:


> You are bigot - thus you lack the wits to examine the facts before you.



 Before I what?




Uncensored2008 said:


> Your stupid notion of monolithic "JOOOOOOOness" is the stuff of retards, i.e. bigots. I grew up as a Christian kid in a Jewish neighborhood. There was sure the hell no unity. The Orthodox hated the reformed. The conservatives thought the reformed were radicals and the Orthodox were nuts. Even among the conservatives, there were a dozen factions. Jews are no more unified than Protestants are.



 There is an old saying that if you want to destroy the Jews all you have to do is leave them alone. 
 This may be true but we will never find out because the Jews won't leave us alone. 

 People are ever making mistakes over the confusion they have when attempting to go from the particular to the general or from the general to the particular. The difference is similar to that between inductive and deductive reasoning. 

  This perennial dilemma reminds me of the fits that concept of limits give some people in trying to resolve Zeno's paradox. 

 Basically you are accusing me of making "blanket statements" and then pointing to what _appear to be_ exceptions in an effort to discount the rule. 

 All the while you are making sweeping generalizations about various people yourselves, so called "liberals" for starters. 
 It is you who are the one making the argument that "left" and "right" have some real meaning other than the notions which are generally agreed upon in defining them. 
 You have called me "ignorant" of this and "ignorant" about subjects which I have scarcely commented on. Aside from the little I have, you have nothing else with which to measure with. So you are not in a position to make that determination. 
  You have accused me over and over of being a "Nazi" without realizing that the Germans didn't apply the term to themselves which shows a little of your own ignorance. 





> If you are unfamiliar with Judaism, it is at this point that you should take it upon yourself to investigate what Jews believe and whether those beliefs influence their decisions in other areas of their lives.






Uncensored2008 said:


> Actually, why don't you try learning something legitimate? Turn away from Stormfront and the other Nazi websites and actually learn what Judaism is? You make Archie Bunker look informed.



 I have nothing to do with Stormfront and I HAVE looked into Judaism more than most people. 
 So, what do YOU know of it?

 I'm not asking you to describe the personal attributes of your childhood pal, Schlomo. 

 What I am interested in is the main thrust of the prevailing doctrines of Judaism and the effects they may have over mass behavior. 

 You seem to understand that principle when it comes to Muslims, or "Nazis". I don't see why you should encounter so many problems making the same types of generalizations with regard to Judaism. 




> Then you should ask yourself whether a "Jew" would be more likely to place his Jewish values over any others. If so, then you should learn what those values are and all that they entail.





Uncensored2008 said:


> You should ask yourself if a Christian would.



 Everyone is familiar with cases of people who called themselves "Christian" or by one of it's many derivatives, who proved themselves by their words and deeds to be anything but an adherent to the doctrines of Christ. 

Many people falsely conclude that the ability for charlatans and hypocrites to assume serves to disprove the validity of Christ's teachings themselves. Whether they are actually unable to make the distinction clear in their own minds or they are seizing upon any means available to excuse themselves from having to deal with the issue may be known only to God himself.

 But it makes no more sense for the Jews or anyone else to make blanket indictments of "Christianity" or "Christiandom" on the whole than it would for me to make similar generalizations about Judaism. 
 If you are going to demand that I enumerate all possible variations and exceptions to the rule every time I use the term, then I will have to make the same demand of you whether you are referring to "Democrats", "Republicans", "Christians", "liberals", "conservatives", the "left", the "right", or even "Nazis". 

 That's unless you can give a comprehensive definition for each of those terms which covers all the bases in each and every instance.


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## holston (May 9, 2014)

Reid Land Deal Under Scrutiny




> Reid Land Deal Under Scrutiny





> By Jeffrey H. *Birnbaum*
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Thursday, October 12, *2006*
> 
> Harry M. Reid of Nevada, the Senate's top Democrat, said yesterday that he was in discussions with the chamber's* ethics committee to determine whether he should amend his financial disclosure forms to include details of a real estate transaction that allowed him to collect $1.1 million.*



Shocking Allegations Show Harry Reid, Chinese Company Behind Nevada Ranch Standoff



> In an apparent effort to cover its tracks, the BLM has reportedly removed documents from its website showing that the move to kick the Bundys and their cattle off of the land was at least in part due to the fact that their presence impeded development of solar energy on the land.





> Reid and his eldest son, reports indicate, were integral in the support and/or implementation of a $5 billion solar plant being built in the county by a Chinese company.





> The recent allegations of Reid&#8217;s hand in the Bundy attack are bolstered by the fact that his former senior adviser also served as the director of the BLM. According to reports, Reid successfully redrew the endangered tortoise&#8217;s protected habitat to benefit a donor, indicating his concern is more about his political and financial future than the well-being of this reptile.





> As Bundy confirmed, he is far from the only rancher intimidated by the BLM. He is, however, the last one left fighting. According to a statement he made recently, there were 52 other ranchers in the vicinity of his property at one point &#8211; and they are all gone.


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## holston (May 17, 2014)

Fed's next land fight: New Mexico ranchers angered over water fenced off to cattle - Washington Times



> *The Obama administration&#8217;s crackdown on Western land use has sparked a furor over the Forest Service&#8217;s decision to fence off a creek used by thirsty cattle in drought-stricken Otero County, New Mexico.*
> 
> The Otero County Commission is scheduled to meet Monday to discuss whether to order the sheriff to open the gates against the wishes of Forest Service officials, who have argued that the fence is needed to protect the Agua Chiquita riparian area and habitat for the New Mexico meadow jumping mouse.




 The government hasn't been too keen on fencing out the illegals and drug dealers from Mexico. 
 It doesn't seem to bother them that drug cartels occupy large portions of Arizona parks .
 Eric Holder doesn't want to talk about the guns he sent them in Operation Fast and Furious and has defied Congress request to view records concerning it. 




 Not to change the subject BUT...

 Exactly what does the Dept of Agriculture need with 40 cal submachine guns?!








> Firearms
> Solicitation Number: USDAOIGWEA-5-7-14
> Agency: Department of Agriculture
> Office: Office of the Inspector General
> Location: Procurement Branch






> Synopsis:
> Added: May 07, 2014 2:03 pm
> 
> The U.S. Department of Agriculture, Office of Inspector General, located in Washington, DC, pursuant to the authority of FAR Part 13, has a requirement for the commerical acquisition of submachine guns, .40 Cal. S&W, ambidextrous safety, semi-automatic or 2 shot burts trigger group, Tritium night sights for front and rear, rails for attachment of flashlight (front under fore grip) and scope (top rear), stock-collapsilbe or folding, magazine - 30 rd. capacity, sling, light weight, and oversized trigger guard for gloved operation.  NO SOLICITATION DOCUMENT EXISTS.  All responsible and/or interested sources may submit their company name, point of contact, and telephone.  If received timely, shall be considered by the agency for contact to determine weapon suitability.




  Meanwhile the Dept of Agriculture now has some need for 40 cal machine guns while Neo-Con talking head Beck warns his audience that anyone getting too rambunctious will be shot. 

 Do any libs or Zionists out there care to take a crack at this?
 All we need is a simple explanation that makes sense. So there's no need to go sounding all conspiratorial on us.


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## RKMBrown (May 17, 2014)

holston said:


> Fed's next land fight: New Mexico ranchers angered over water fenced off to cattle - Washington Times
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Clearly the sub machine guns are for shooting cows, I'd be looking for them to also be buying or leasing lots of backhoes so they can  the evidence.


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## holston (May 17, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Clearly the sub machine guns are for shooting cows, I'd be looking for them to also be buying or leasing lots of backhoes so they can  the evidence.



 That's right. You have to be quick on the draw when going after those freeloading trespassing cows. 
 They can be mighty mean. 
 You see the way they have mercilessly tramped all over those desert turtles and Jumping meeces. 

 It's no telling what they might do the way they tend to gang up.


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