# Breaking News - Israel launches ground offensive in Gaza



## toastman (Jul 17, 2014)

Watching it live on CNN now. No link yet


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

Gooood! Finally Hamas will pay the price, Israel warned several times already - "Damam Berosham"


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

God be with you all, may you return safely after completing this mission


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## Hossfly (Jul 17, 2014)

Israel launches a 'large' ground operation in the Gaza Strip, according to the Israel Defense Forces. 

No links yet but FNC is reporting it now.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> Gooood! Finally Hamas will pay the price, Israel warned several times already - "Damam Berosham"



price for what?


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Israel launches a 'large' ground operation in the Gaza Strip, according to the Israel Defense Forces.
> 
> No links yet but FNC is reporting it now.



Netanyahu and the IDF themselves officially declaired the ground operation, about an hour ago.

Hopefully, it will go well


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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First, for kidnapping the 3 boys, which was what started the escalation.

Second, for their arrogance and abusing of both Israeli and Palestinian civilians.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


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so when does israel pay the price for kidnapping the palestinian teen?

and is the 200+ dead and 1500+ wounded not payment enough? 

how many palestinian lives and homes does it take to pay for an israeli teen?


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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Firing rockets into Israel, where you've been?


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## amity1844 (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


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The three boys were kidnapped in Hebron, I had understood, and do we know by whom?  Why would we assume it was Hamas?

Also, how have they abused civilians?

And thirdly, are the people of Gaza to pay the price for what Hamas does, even assuming your above assertions could be proven?


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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As many as it takes to stop them from firing rockets into Israel.


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## amity1844 (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> Firing rockets into Israel, where you've been?



REALLY?!?!?!  How many people were killed?


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## longknife (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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Are you truly this propagandized? Or is it simply blindness to the continual attacks against women and children - not only Israeli but their own.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

*Wanna know the price? the estimated price for every Israeli is about 1000 terrorists, right now the counter says about 170 and the rest are children and women, so do the mathematics.*
That price must be payed, now you already considering us war criminals and apartheid state, I say lets give it to you.
Gilad Shalit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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The ones who killed that boy will be self for life imprisonment. I think it's how it should be dealt with, in a sane country?

For your next question, it's not about who died up till now. It's about what happened TODAY. 13 terrorists were spotted about to attack a Jewish village, they digged the terror tunnle from Gaza, dozens would have been killed if were not spotted.

The IDF enters gaza to destroy the tunnles.

That has nothing to do with the victims so far. It is about guarantee the safetly of the civilians who might suffer the result of terror activities through those tunnles.

Get me, now?


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


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Doesn't matter, the fact that they are trying to kill civilians is all it takes. Whether or not they suck at it is immaterial.


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


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Thanks to the Iron Dome techonology, only one.

Maybe the Palestinians should built an iron dome for themselves.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


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no, i don't. 

how many palestinian lives will it take to pay for the deaths of 3 teens that may or may not have been killed by hamas?

the israeli killer gets life in prison - so that's no israeli lives for a palestinian teen.

what is your exchange rate?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


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they can't even get concrete to build houses - thanks to israel.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

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they should take lessons from the idf. they're great at killing civilians.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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Shouldn't of used it to build tunnels then.


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


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"We" don't assume. The ones who assume are the people of my leadership and army.

And their "assumption" is based on things we may not know.

I'd take their words over the words of Hamas on any day. Hamas are known for their lies and deciet.

For your next question. Few days ago, IDF warned Palestinian civilians- "We know there are terror targets in Beit Lahia and Zeiton. We don't want to hurt you or your families, leave your homes to shelters and stay safe there".

They told them specifically about the times and gave them more than 12 hours to take their belongings and save themselves.

There comes Hamas, knowing that the IDF will start bombing soon enough, yet tells the people, "Don't you dare leave your homes, whoever leaves will be considered as cooperating with the occupation. "

Knowing that staying there means certain death, Hamas still obligated them to stay in the potential targets.

I'm sorry, you're right. This is not abusing. This is pure _*murder*_.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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You mean the Hamas is good at using human shields, thinking Israelites won't fire at terrorist if they use civilians as shields. Blame Hamas for this.


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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They don't get concrete because they use it for tunnles.

Thanks to Hamas.

They want concrete, they should stop using it for terror, then they'll get what they want for humanitarian needs.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

Its very simple, Hamas must die - Later we can think about negotiation, but MAYBE.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


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cop out and you know it. 

who were the four kids on the beach shielding?


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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The Palestinian exchange rate is that one of us is worthy 1027 of them.

So either they don't appreciate _their own people _very much, or they're just not highly clever.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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Boys of someone - why won't you ask that particular someone why his kids out there and not with him?


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> Its very simple, Hamas must die - Later we can think about negotiation, but MAYBE.



You don't negotiate or have faith with _mechablim_ even when they're six feet under.

Not even then.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

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that's the isreali rate. and you know that.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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What 4 kids, what beach? Were they throwing rocks? Planting bombs?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

something you guys may not realize - the majority of people in gaza are 24 or younger. who do you think will do the majority of the dying when israel roles in with tanks and kills anyone throwing rocks?


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


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I Would say both


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


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that fact that you think kids that throw rocks deserve to die says everything i would ever want to know about you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/w...trip-beach-explosion-kills-children.html?_r=0


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## irosie91 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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Hamas does not need lessons in killing civilians----they have accomplished that goal 
in Gaza  -------their problem in their incessant attempts to kill civiiians in Israel is 
that Israel puts up a defense that   Hamas cannot prevent it-----the defense is very easily 
attained------simple home made bomb shelters.     Interesting fact-----Hamas uses 
homemade bombs in their attempt to murder civilians----and Israelis protect their 
children in homemade bomb shelters  

    HOME MADE-----the nostalgia of childhood.      my mom did homemade oatmeal 
cookies,     My dad made a homemade picnic table.     Israeli kids spend hours 
and days in homemade bomb shelters-----and gazan kids watch homemade 
bombs screech across the skies toward Israel     la la la la  MEMOREEES ARE 
MADE OF THIS  la la la la


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## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> something you guys may not realize - the majority of people in gaza are 24 or younger. who do you think will do the majority of the dying when israel roles in with tanks and kills anyone throwing rocks?



They'll die not because they're the majority, but because most of the people Israel DOES look for, are in hiding.

Go hiding while your wives and children are up ground, unprotected.

Hamas are real heroes, I tell you


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> something you guys may not realize - the majority of people in gaza are 24 or younger. who do you think will do the majority of the dying when israel roles in with tanks and kills anyone throwing rocks?



Should've thought of that before firing rockets into Israel.


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## amity1844 (Jul 17, 2014)

longknife said:


> Are you truly this propagandized? Or is it simply blindness to the continual attacks against women and children - not only Israeli but their own.



This is what we are protesting ... Israeli attacks against women and children .... anybody's.  

A few puny rockets that have done little harm (any casualties at all, guys?) do not justify the wholesale slaughter that is taking place.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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Gillieth used them to kill the Giant right? Rocks are lethal weapons.
Besides


> The Israeli military acknowledged later that it had launched the strike, which it said was aimed at Hamas militants, and called the civilian deaths &#8220;a tragic outcome.&#8221;


From your link.

No war is fought without civilian casualties and to expect Israel to break that fact is unreasonable expectations.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


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hamas could only dream of killing as many people as israel does.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

[MENTION=49937]Daniyel[/MENTION], [MENTION=36574]Lipush[/MENTION]

I hope Israel is successful in crushing Hamas once and for all.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

And as for the link:

Israel launches ground operation in Gaza Strip | Fox News


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


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'A few puny rockets'? 

Try over 1000+. If there was no Iron Dome, there would be plenty of Israeli casualties you to cheer about. The Palestinians shall pay dearly for killing those three boys and incurring the wrath of Israel.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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The fact that Hamas is a failure at killing their enemy does not lesson their potential future danger and must be stopped. To stop Israel from retaliating all you have to do is stop attacking Israel first.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

Those rocks can kills, and sometimes its a fridge full of sand, molotov cocktails, fireworks, hand slingshots, house blocks, knives, blunts, chains, explosive devices of all kind, lynches, raping, guns of all kind, rockets, missiles, kidnappings  There you go I marked in Red the things I didn't experienced over my own fucking skin.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

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you could flip that on its ear. to stop the palestinian people from retaliating the idf just needs to stop killing.


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## proudveteran06 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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  Israel " pays the price" after Hamas pays for kidnapping and killing those three Israelis 

   The Dead and Wounded? Why didn't Hamas accept Egypts truce plan? Israel did. It's their fault  There will be no response.    

     It wasn't an " Israeli Teen" There were three of them. Try to keep yourself educated.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> God be with you all, may you return safely after completing this mission



My Prayers are the baby killing Zionists reap what they have sown on this child and civilian killing venture, and of course I know they shall. My God will see they do, in His way and in His timing.  

Viva Palestina!


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

proudveteran06 said:


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i just wanted the rate per teen. just curious if they've 'paid the price' for even one yet.


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## amity1844 (Jul 17, 2014)

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Sounds like justification for a wholesale slaughter in the context of another land grab if you ask me.

And as I have already pointed out, the fact that Hamas gives one hour notice of their intention to attack Tel Aviv proves to me that they are *NOT targeting civilians*.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


> REALLY?!?!?!  How many people were killed?



If you lunge at me with a knife, I'll shoot you dead. You may think I should let you stab me first, but it ain't going to happen.

Muzzie Beasts need to stop attacking civilized people.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


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You're very much an idiot if you think Israel is willfully killing civilians. Are you so unintelligent to believe that? 

Viva Israel! Time for them to put some boots in Hamas asses.


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## Roudy (Jul 17, 2014)

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Does it matter?  The animals would kill a million if they could.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

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What came first is Hamas refusing to allow Israel to live in 1948 going to war with Israel. What came first now was Hamas firing rockets into Israel. You need to change what came first before you effect what comes second.

Because of Hamas refusing to accept that Egyptian made peace agreement and because they won't stop firing rockets into Israel while stupidly thinking Israel would do nothing about it, I am for the death of every person on Hamas side of the line until there is no more Hamas regardless as to how many civilians they have to go through to get to them.  In fact, give me a gun, I'll go kill some too.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

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They'll get right on that. Right after they discover fire and invent the wheel....


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

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I assume you have links proving this? If they order their own civilians to stay in their homes and not evacuate in the midst of Israeli airstrikes, what makes you think they'll warn Israel of incoming rocket fire? Seriously?


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## Hossfly (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


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Still cheerleading for the terrorists, I see. The game is almost over so get all your cheers in.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

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again, most of the population of gaza is under 24. you really think they give a shit about what happened 55 years ago?


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


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Things Palestinians did to me (Including the civilized west bankies):
rocks, fridge full of sand, Molotov cocktails, fireworks, hand slingshots, house blocks, knives, blunts, chains, explosive devices of all kind, lynches, raping, guns of all kind, rockets, missiles, kidnappings  There you go I marked in Red the things I didn't experienced over my own fucking skin, Would you allow them to live one second longer if that would've happen to you?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

The proof Israel targets civilians and children has been blasted all over social media all over this big and beautiful world. 

Human rights groups like HRW and Btselem document it. 

Videos and photos  abound showing Israel in cold blood target and murder 4 young boys on a beach in Gaza.

Those images have gone viral.

We need to amend dictionaries to include as a synonym for Zionist child killer and civilian killer.




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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


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so put yourself on the other side of that. what has the average, under 25, palestinian been subjected to at the hands of israel? homes destroyed, family and friends mutilated and killed. restricted movement, no access to materials to rebuild their lives. kidnappings. all manner of guns, missiles, jets, tanks, helicopters.

why would they not want to attack israel?


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

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I think all the good innocent Palestinians left and were replaced by those who simply want to push Israel into the sea. So I have no problem with Israel killing anyone on Hamas's side of the fence.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The proof Israel targets civilians and children has been blasted all over social media all over this big and beautiful world.
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Again you ignore the part of the article in the link where it says Israel targeted Hamas and hit the kids by accident.


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## peach174 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> something you guys may not realize - the majority of people in gaza are 24 or younger. who do you think will do the majority of the dying when israel roles in with tanks and kills anyone throwing rocks?



Israel warned them to leave and the vast majority have left.
Any who are there wants to fight, it's their choice.
Israel is targeting, the tunnels and certain areas where there are weapons.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> you could flip that on its ear. to stop the palestinian people from retaliating the idf just needs to stop killing.



I saw a Chihuahua take out after a Pit Bull. The Chihuahua lunged and snapped, the Pit stood there looking at the little shit dog like it was stupid. Finally the Pit had enough, and snatch the little shithead and flung it across the yard.

The Chihuahua was dazed, and took a minute get back on his feet. Then he took off after the Pit Bull again.

You Muzzie Beasts are the Chihuahua - you're too fucking stupid to grasp that you are out matched, and if you would just leave the Jews alone, they would leave you alone. But you don't - you attack over and over. Eventually, the Pit Bull will snap your stupid neck - and you'll fully deserve it.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

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What, do you live in Gaza? Close to 30% of the Gazan population ranges from 25-54 years of age, 3% are 55-64 years of age. Some of them do care. Some of them are launching rockets at Israel. 

Gaza Strip Demographics Profile 2013


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## Penelope (Jul 17, 2014)

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You mean they haven't paid enough? Are you serious, or joking?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

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yes. 3% of their population was alive in 1948. makes perfect sense that the other 97% should have to pay for whatever crimes were committed then.


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## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

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I thought that's all they dream about.
Look, could you take out a loan and rent some wit?


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

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Damn, if a liberal, or a Muzzie can't win with the truth, they tell lies. Go figure.


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## Roudy (Jul 17, 2014)

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Don't cry for me, Palestina!  Hamas shoot the rockets, IDF kick Uranus!


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


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the founders of the united states were the chihuahua too. how'd that end?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

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what lie?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

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The day Israel wants the Arabs in Gaza dead, the Arabs in Gaza will be dead.


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## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

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What did your say your name was?
Ok, Retard...Hamas has been firing rockets at S'derot for over 3 years.

Retaliation bothers you?
Don't watch.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The proof Israel targets civilians and children has been blasted all over social media all over this big and beautiful world.
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Grow up.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

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That Israel has the explicit intent of killing civilians in Gaza. Here, let me educate you pro-Palestinians:

The Moral Difference Between Israel and Hamas


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


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they are taking deliberate actions that they know will result in the death of many civilians. 

how many civilians are acceptable collateral for taking out one person who fires rockets - keeping in mind that those rockets - out of the 'thousands' fired recently, have killed just one person?

and you are educating me. your showing me that you do not value the lives of the people in gaza the same as you do those in israel.


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## Penelope (Jul 17, 2014)

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Yes I heard we just doubled the money for the iron dome. Lucky for you the US is paying right, and the evangelical Christians are sending millions to you. I hope we quit the 3.2 bil plus a year were sending you and give it to Palestine, oh wait, you have AIPAC. 

Wow unreal. Hope you happy. You sound happy. that's good.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

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duh, most of the population of gaza is under 24, that lie.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

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Sigh, all of your hasty generalizations don't prove any malice on the part of Israel. None of you have been able to prove it.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

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Wars can't be won without collateral damage. If you don't like that you shouldn't of started this war.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> the founders of the united states were the chihuahua too. how'd that end?



Hardly.

The genius of George Washington was in avoiding a fight. Your knowledge of history is as weak as your hold on reality.


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## peach174 (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The proof Israel targets civilians and children has been blasted all over social media all over this big and beautiful world.
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What Parent allows their children to play on a beach during a war?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

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i didn't start any war.
how much collateral damage is acceptable to you? how many dead palestinians is too many?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > the founders of the united states were the chihuahua too. how'd that end?
> ...



so the colonial forces weren't outmatched? they weren't the underdogs when facing the world's mightiest military?


----------



## Roudy (Jul 17, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > amity1844 said:
> ...


Would you like some cheese with that whine?  

I hope Israel captures all Hamas members and executes the animals on the spot.

Now repeat after me, heywan: iNSHALLAH! IDF Akbar!


----------



## proudveteran06 (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Firing rockets into Israel, where you've been?
> ...



Not for lack of trying; is it? Notice how the Pro Palestinian doesn't condemn it?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Hamas started it by firing the rockets into Israel.
You keep ignoring that very important point.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



You cannot prove anything you're saying. Yet here I am running you and your terrorist supporting friends into the ground by myself.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



that's because it's not important. the history of aggression between israel and palestine is long and convoluted and neither side can claim their hands are clean. you say the palestinians started it by firing rockets - the palestinians could say that israel did by imposing their blockade.

'but he started it' went out the window as an excuse in pre-school.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> i didn't start any war.
> how much collateral damage is acceptable to you? how many dead palestinians is too many?



Do you consider yourself a proud soldier for Allah? Dedicated to driving the last Jew from Israel and ensuring that not one grain of Muslim sand is under the dominion of infidels? Then you can turn to Spain, to drive the Christians from what you consider Muslim lands, right?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jul 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Good song.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



So, let me ask you something. Are those rockets just for show? No. They are being launched in hopes of killing Israeli citizens. The only reason you have Palestinian citizens being killed is because their government won't protect them as Israel protects theirs. Israel is by far more sophisticated than Hamas is.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



what am i supposed to prove? that israel knows conducting airstrikes on a city with a population 12 times as dense as chicago will cause civilian casualties?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...


why is that? couldn't have anything to do with the billions of dollars we give them annually, or the tech and hardware we give them, could it?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Targeting of civilians has been documented already by human rights groups. 

You are an idiot to deny it. 




TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > i didn't start any war.
> ...



i'm roman catholic, not that that has anything to do with anything. 

i just value human life more than israel seems to.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



The chihuahua, however small it is, is the bully here.  The founders of the United States are more like that hero cat who saved the little boy from that big dog.  (It was in the news.)


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Rockets came before the blockade. Surely your not that ignorant. The blockade happened to try to stop them from getting the materials to fire the rockets.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



As I said. Now you are deflecting. As we all know, Hamas will station ammo dumps and command posts in the midst of schools and apartments populated with civilians in hopes that they get taken out when they do. 

Seriously, are you paying any attention to what Hamas is doing?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



You expect them to do nothing while Hamas fires rockets into Israel. You must be a loon to think that way.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Washington understood his weakness, and made it into strength. The Muzzie Beasts leverage weakness to their own destruction. Washington sought to survive, the Muzzies continually attack. 

You are comparing military genius with drooling retardation,


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Excuse me, who gives WHO tech?
Don't read much these days, do you?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



again, it doesn't matter. neither side has the high ground. you go back far enough the palestinians get to say that israel started it by displacing them.

but since the majority of the people in gaza are under 25, they're really just going to be familiar with the fences, blockade, bulldozers, and tanks.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



How many Israelis have died from the rockets is not the point.  The people of Israel can't live normal lives when they are running to bomb shelters all the time.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Thought you didn't care about ancient history when I brought up the fact that they refused to allow Israel to exist in 1948. I guess you only care what will win you the argument regardless what the truth is.


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



ogibillm, you're making this thread real boring with your bait and switch off topic dribble.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Targeting of civilians has been documented already by human rights groups.
> 
> You are an idiot to deny it.



Al Qaeda and Boco Harem are NOT "human rights groups."


I'm just sayin....


----------



## Hossfly (Jul 17, 2014)

Even the Arab League is against Hamas.

 As Hamas continues putting Israeli and Palestinian lives in jeopardy by rejecting a ceasefire and firing rockets, the Islamist terrorist group must be disappointed at the Muslim worlds reaction. Hamas did not get the usual reflexive support and fiery backlash against Israel. In fact, it appears that the terrorist groups largest support is coming from protests in Europe.

The latest round of fighting is remarkable in what did not happen. There werent automatic mass demonstrations against Israel and the West. No major riots or countless photographs of Israeli and American flags on fire across the region. No violence against diplomatic facilities. Even though Fatah fired missiles, there was no large-scale uprising in the West Bank.

The Islamists were unable to whip up the masses with the ease of flicking a light switch. Instead, flickers of the truth are penetrating minds saturated with anti-Western propaganda.



Arab World Holds Hamas Responsible in Latest Conflict | Clarion Project


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...


So you here is the main split, some people like Amity or George or Billo or Tinmore for example believe that Israel did occupied and banished Palestinians, out of this assumption they say the violence of Hamas and the other organizations within Gaza is justified against Israeli civilians.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



Gee I wonder who built the Iron Dome? Wasn't us.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> i'm roman catholic, not that that has anything to do with anything.
> 
> i just value human life more than israel seems to.



Sure you are; which is why you dedicate your life to promoting and expanding Islam....


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



the point was the conflict has been ongoing for the entirety of the lives of 97% of the population, and most of those weren't alive until after 1990. to them, all they've seen is israel killing and mutilating their friends and family and destroying their homes, and then denying them the ability to rebuild. 

who started it doesn't really matter to them. it's an academic argument when compared to the reality of their lives.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > God be with you all, may you return safely after completing this mission
> ...



I'm truely out of f**** to give about you and your prayers to Satan.


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

What does the entire middle east countries contribute to the world?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > i'm roman catholic, not that that has anything to do with anything.
> ...



only an idiot would believe he knows everything about a person, or even what they've 'dedicated' their life to by reading some posts on a message board.

here's a hint for you - if the palestinians were killing israelis in the ratios that israel is killing palestinians i'd be angry at them, too.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> You expect them to do nothing while Hamas fires rockets into Israel. You must be a loon to think that way.



He doesn't expect them to do nothing, he expects them to die. Allahu Akbar.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



The terrorists were not killed, so the mission is not over, and the operation starts.

I don't feel at all like joking.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



too much blood lust for jocularity?


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > Are you truly this propagandized? Or is it simply blindness to the continual attacks against women and children - not only Israeli but their own.
> ...



Oh, and I'm sure Hamas will be sending you your first decoder ring in the mail soon.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



You're repeating a lie that's already been disproven. The population average is much older than you claim. Forgive me if I can't quote the quote but you can read it for yourself simply by reading back a page or two.


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



How many Israelis died by Terror activities since 48?
How many Israelis have at least 1 dead relative because of violence?
How many Israeli children under 18 died because of terror since 48?
How many terror activities Israel suffered in the past 10 years?
What population has the highest crime rate in since 48?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > You expect them to do nothing while Hamas fires rockets into Israel. You must be a loon to think that way.
> ...



actually, i expect them to be a bit more judicious in their use of force. the iron dome was working. let it do it's job and either let hamas exhaust their supply of rockets or take the time to more precisely eliminate the threat.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > amity1844 said:
> ...



Happy? No, I'm terribly sad. Take your cash, no need for Iron Dome.

Let's just go all of us southerner Israelis to jump from the highest tower, and kill ourselves. Because you know, money is more important. And why investing it on idiotic things like Iron Dome, when you can aim it at more justified things, like new institutes for Hamas to fire rockets from.

I totally get it.


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Look if you're only here to stir up dust and argue with your drive by flames without any substance to your posts, GO THE FUCK AWAY!


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Not to you, but for me, and 5 millions of my brothers and sisters, it's a matter of life and death.

"Israel started it by imposing the blockade". Which is an orxymoron, the greatest kind of. My father remembers a time when workers from Gaza used to come and talk and laugh and it from the same plate as the Israelis.

Until that time when terror started flying from Gaza in such high amount that the blockade was needed.

If there was no terror, there would not have been any need for blockade.

So no, either way, It's still their fault.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



far fewer than the number of palestinians dead at the hands of israelis


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



all i want is people to understand that palestinian lives have value, and cheering the death and destruction is inhuman.


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

0-14 years: 44.7% (male 343,988/female 325,856)
15-64 years: 52.7% (male 403,855/female 386,681)
65 years and over: 2.7% (male 16,196/female 23,626) (2008 est.)
Demographics of the Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



And all I did was feed the troll


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...


If they had value to Hamas then Hamas wouldn't of gotten into this mess by firing rockets into Israel. You keep ignoring this point and pretending it isn't there.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> 0-14 years: 44.7% (male 343,988/female 325,856)
> 15-64 years: 52.7% (male 403,855/female 386,681)
> 65 years and over: 2.7% (male 16,196/female 23,626) (2008 est.)
> Demographics of the Palestinian territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gz.html
0-14 years: 43.2% (male 402,848/female 381,155)
15-24 years: 20.6% (male 191,710/female 182,405)
25-54 years: 30.1% (male 280,551/female 266,756)
55-64 years: 3.5% (male 31,711/female 31,515)
65 years and over: 2.6% (male 19,617/female 28,111) (2014 est.)


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



and you hold israel blameless?


----------



## proudveteran06 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



 All I want is for Pro Palestinians to understand that Hamas initiated it and admit that for every Israeli Death they might cause they will celebrate. Why didn't Hamas accept the Cease Fire??????? No response.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Wow, are you like, _twelve_?

There is a mission why the IDF decided to fight Hamas. The mission was to stop the rocket fire, the mission is incomplete, therefore the operation is still rolling.

Your question, of much incitement, is irrelevant, may I just say.


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> There comes Hamas, knowing that the IDF will start bombing soon enough, yet tells the people, "Don't you dare leave your homes, whoever leaves will be considered as cooperating with the occupation. "



And this is what I really wonder about, that is why I started my thread questioning what kind of tv/radio gets broadcast in Gaza and the West Bank.

Lipush, is there anything you have that can verify this?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

proudveteran06 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



if i'm under 25 and my family had been mutilated or killed by the idf, and my home destroyed, and i have nothing to rebuild it with and nowhere i can go, you're fucking right i'm going to be pissed and want to fire a few rockets.

who started what doesn't matter when you get into the real lives of real people. all that matters is how it affected them.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > There comes Hamas, knowing that the IDF will start bombing soon enough, yet tells the people, "Don't you dare leave your homes, whoever leaves will be considered as cooperating with the occupation. "
> ...



On it.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


sorry. not so much from you, but the blood lust in this thread is palpable and disgusting.

but you're right, that was unwarranted. you do not seem to be celebrating the deaths of anyone.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



     See nothing wrong with Israelis making sure they are near Bomb Shelters? Would you accept living like that?? You are a fool. Hamas  didn't accept the truce because?????  No response.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...


I don't blame Israel for Hamas firing rockets at them.


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

Islam seems to produce a lot of pissed off people.
So tell me, ogibillm, what's pissing off the Iraqis, the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Libyans, the Sudanese?
What the heck is wrong with all these Muslims?
They're miserable every where they go and they're willing to commit murder in the name of that misery.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

Hamas Orders Civilians to Die in Israeli Airstrikes | Washington Free Beacon


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

24,846 Israelis died due to the friendly neighbors we have and terrorism and I'm not even counting the non-Jews.
So basically you are telling me to establish a Palestinian state so that Iran won't build a nuclear warhead to nuke us all? I think you can go and build them a nice colony in your damn yard instead of telling me how to increase the fatalities of my people and fuck human rights I'm sicking tired of hearing this rubbish they don't ever considered my life important and they are just a bunch of useless scums who never did any good but squeeze money and blood out of the only productive state in the whole fucking middle east.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...


Fine, stop firing the rockets and Israel will stop retaliating.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Hamas Orders Civilians to Die in Israeli Airstrikes | Washington Free Beacon



do you have a source that isn't a righwing blog?


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)




----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> 24,846 Israelis died due to the friendly neighbors we have and terrorism and I'm not even counting the non-Jews.
> So basically you are telling me to establish a Palestinian state so that Iran won't build a nuclear warhead to nuke us all? I think you can go and build them a nice colony in your damn yard instead of telling me how to increase the fatalities of my people and fuck human rights I'm sicking tired of hearing this rubbish they don't ever considered my life important and they are and they are just a bunch of useless scums who never did any good but squeeze money and blood out of the only productive state in the whole fucking middle east.



and there it is


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > There comes Hamas, knowing that the IDF will start bombing soon enough, yet tells the people, "Don't you dare leave your homes, whoever leaves will be considered as cooperating with the occupation. "
> ...



Hamas tells Gaza residents to ignore IDF warnings - Israel News, Ynetnews

Hamas Orders Gazans to Stay Inside When IDF Calls - Defense/Security - News - Arutz Sheva


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


 [MENTION=36574]Lipush[/MENTION], [MENTION=49464]teddyearp[/MENTION]

Check it:



TemplarKormac said:


> Roughly translated,  this is what the Palestinian Government ordered their citizens to do:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

Yes, thank you, I brought other sources as well


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Yes, thank you, I brought other sources as well



didn't exactly say what you said it did, though, did it?


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



I don't see people here celebrating deaths of innocent people?

We just don't agree on what caused those deaths, maybe.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, thank you, I brought other sources as well
> ...



?


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, thank you, I brought other sources as well
> ...



Actually, it confirmed what he said. Basically Palestine told it's citizens to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate, as they were "an effort to hide the failure of the enemy." Basically, it was propaganda.


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Yeah however Palestinians KNEW  SOMEHOW to be aware of the airstrikes and evacuated those areas specifically where IDF stroke, weird.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Their survival instincts are stonger than Hamas' crazy pride.

Credit to them for that.


----------



## Crystalclear (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Gooood! Finally Hamas will pay the price, Israel warned several times already - "Damam Berosham"
> ...


And how would you feel when being attacked for a long time by terrorist organisations and neighbouring countries?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> that blood lust.



Self-defense is not blood lust.

You can easily keep Israel from attacking - just stop attacking them.

It's easy.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

Hossfly said:


> Even the Arab League is against Hamas.
> 
> As Hamas continues putting Israeli and Palestinian lives in jeopardy by rejecting a ceasefire and firing rockets, the Islamist terrorist group must be disappointed at the Muslim worlds reaction. Hamas did not get the usual reflexive support and fiery backlash against Israel. In fact, it appears that the terrorist groups largest support is coming from protests in Europe.
> 
> ...






Well said, Hoss, well said.


----------



## skye (Jul 17, 2014)

Realistically, Israel had little option but to start the ground offensive in view of Hamas unabating aggressive escalation,such as the thwarted terrorist attack via the tunnels that happend   just a few hours ago... plus it's impossible for Israel to tolerate almost 1400 rockets   having being fired during this conflict!

Ground attack is the inevitable consequence and very soon Hamas will have been given a deadly leasson.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Its very simple, Hamas must die - Later we can think about negotiation, but MAYBE.
> ...




Correct.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

Uncensored2008 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > you could flip that on its ear. to stop the palestinian people from retaliating the idf just needs to stop killing.
> ...







And one day will come sooner than the musliim primitives realize.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Targeting civilians in a land you occupy is not self defense.

Israel attacks because they desire to target and deliberately kill children. We watch it happening .

Why? Maybe it is in the the Zionist DNA or hate they were taught as children, it is so sad to see Zionist people so hate filled and such depraved people and so insensitive to the demands required by international law that prohibit targeting of civilians and acts of collective punishment against a civilian population. 




Uncensored2008 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > that blood lust.
> ...


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...




I can live with that.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> *Targeting of civilians has been documented already by human rights groups. *
> 
> You are an idiot to deny it.
> 
> ...



Indeed, the muslim swine of both Hamas and Fatah have been targeting Israeli civilians for decades now, but that doesn't bother you.  You are disgusting.


----------



## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

amity1844 said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Firing rockets into Israel, where you've been?
> ...



Since when does that make any difference?  It's four million counts of attempted murder by rocket:  HAMAS doesn't get excused for being inept or incompetent.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Good advice, civilians have the right to stay in their homes and say fuck you, you baby killing Zionists. 

You got it, Zionist?



Lipush said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Crystalclear said:


> And how would you feel when being attacked for a long time by terrorist organisations and neighbouring countries?


if that's your defense how do you think the average palestinian feels, having experienced fare more death and destruction at the hands of israelis than any israeli has felt at the hands of palestinians?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Rockets that have killed 24 in a decade do not justify the pogrom Israel now is carrying out in Gaza.




MHunterB said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Targeting civilians in a land you occupy is not self defense..... (hateful filth which followed has been removed)



*You're so right about that, l'il sherriKKKins!  Those HAMAS heroes whose antics have you bouncing on your cucumber have been caught targeting civilians within Israel time and again........ *


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> > And how would you feel when being attacked for a long time by terrorist organisations and neighbouring countries?
> ...



What do you think happens when you attack a vastly superior military force with rocket fire? Palestine brings whatever fate it deserves on itself.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Rockets that have killed 24 in a decade do not justify the pogrom Israel now is carrying out in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you want Israel to wait for the rockets to actually cause fatalities?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Crystalclear said:
> ...



would you ever be cowed into submitting just because the odds were against you?


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Targeting civilians in a land you occupy is not self defense.
> 
> Israel attacks because they desire to target and deliberately kill children. We watch it happening .
> 
> ...



OMG You are absolutely off of your rocker. If you don't want Israel to retaliate don't fire rockets into Israel. If Israel attacks you and Hamas did not previously shoot rockets into Israel the US will get on Israel's ass for doing so. Till then live and learn. Or die, whatever.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
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Never go to a losing battle.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

It's fucking simple. Don't fire rockets into Israel. Then if Israel is as blood thirsty as you nuts think they are and attack you anyhow they will have to face the might of the US. But until you stop firing rockets into Israel you are on your own.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> It's fucking simple. Don't fire rockets into Israel. Then if Israel is as blood thirsty as you nuts think they are and attack you anyhow they will have to face the might of the US. But until you stop firing rockets into Israel you are on your own.



it's fucking simple. don't bulldoze people's homes and kill their families in airstrikes.


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Rockets that have killed 24 in a decade do not justify ......Israel now is carrying out in Gaza. (offensive filth removed)



*  Please show us the rulings in 'international law' which support the extraordinary interpretation you've provided for us above.   So, what IS the death threshold for conducting a counter-strike?   Obviously in your "opinion" it's reaching a certain number of deaths which governs 'causus belli' - and not the deliberate lobbing of live ammo across international borders by organized groups which claim to control the originating territory.*


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## RetiredGySgt (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
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So Israel should just do nothing while hundreds of missiles rockets and mortars rain down on civilian targets in Israel, that about right?


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## toastman (Jul 17, 2014)

Death to Hamas

Death to Islamic Jihad


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



This isn't Star Wars buddy. Instead of blowing up the Death Star, the Death Star blows you to kingdom come.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

RetiredGySgt said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



they appear to be doing very well with their iron dome defense. one fatality.  kinda gives them breathing room to take things a bit slower and methodical, don't you think?


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Good advice, civilians have the right to stay in their homes and say fuck you, you baby killing Zionists.
> 
> You got it, Zionist?
> 
> ...





Sure, they have the right to be stupid and let themselves be killed.  You are really mental about this. Tsk, tsk, poor thing.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
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Calling an IDF soldier a pussy? Really, so tell me, who is it mopping the floor with Hamas right now?

You're the coward here. Your moral relativism makes me sick.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > It's fucking simple. Don't fire rockets into Israel. Then if Israel is as blood thirsty as you nuts think they are and attack you anyhow they will have to face the might of the US. But until you stop firing rockets into Israel you are on your own.
> ...



The rockets came before the airstrikes.
There might be an argument against some of the homes Israel has bulldozed. You don't solve it by firing rockets. You make me your enemy by firing rockets.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
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That's what happens when you have all the firepower. You get to choose how to annihilate your enemy once and for all. Unfortunately Israel has had enough of Hamas, so they will wipe them off the face of this world forever. The world will be that much more peaceful when that happens.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
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actually, templar, of everyone here i'm the only one that's not a moral relativist.

i don't care more about the lives of isrealis than i do about palestinians. i don't care for the slaughter of anyone, and i'm not going to pretend that it's okay to kill hundreds and wound thousands because of some rockets that were blown out of the sky before they hurt anyone.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
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*No. *This time, Hamas has gone too far. It's time to end this charade. Hamas must be completely destroyed, to the last man. End of story. It's in the interest of the arab civilians living in the land mistakenly called the PA to be rid of this terrorist threat. Israel is doing the Arab world a favor.  Good for Israel.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
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> > Slyhunter said:
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so israel wasn't the enemy when they were bulldozing homes?

that's the thing, there is so much history between the two that it doesn't matter. it only matters to the individuals, and individuals in gaza have known israeli oppression and murder their entire lives.

from their legitimate point of view the rockets are justified.

i get isreael's point of view, too, but you have to ask yourself if they're really solving anything by going in and creating more death and destruction than necessary, or if they're just perpetuating the status quo.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
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> > RetiredGySgt said:
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how so? killing one man?


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## irosie91 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
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> 
> > ogibillm said:
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ok   so you proved that you are stupid------you endorse bombing of a country's 
civilian population -----so long as that country can shove its population into 
shelters and deplete its assets strugging to block the bombs at killer costs.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 17, 2014)

*God Speed IDF.*


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



No its called COMMON SENSE.
Shooting rockets when the result is ZERO would be a MASSIVE LACK OF COMMON SENSE.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...


who said i approve? i just don't think it warrants the type of response israel has mounted.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...





> i don't care more about the lives of isrealis than i do about palestinians.



Geez, you could have fooled me. Too bad you're wailing and mourning over the Palestinian dead, ignoring the atrocities that lead to their deaths which weren't by Israel's hand, but by a government who sought to use their deaths as a political tool. Nothing angers me more. Nobody should have to die, but if that is what it takes for Israel to be respected in the world, so be it. If you fire rockets at them, they will bomb you into the ground. 

Daggum, and I thought the pro-Palestine crowd here in my hometown was bad.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...



they may never win militarily. i get that. 

but then, how long will the world put up with israel killing and maiming people by the hundreds?

not every battle is fought with guns and bombs.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



so israel is blameless for the bombs they drop? they aren't responsible for who their weapons kill?

it may surprise you to realize that i also don't care more for the palestinians than i do the isarelis, i just find their plight far more sympathetic right now.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

Israel should retake Gaza from Palestine. They should go on a full offensive and conquer the Gaza Strip. Show those people that they will have better lives as Israeli citizens than with a government who would use them as nothing more than fodder for political purposes.


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> > And how would you feel when being attacked for a long time by terrorist organisations and neighbouring countries?
> ...



Gee, ogi - you seem intent upon giving HAMAS terrorists a pass because they are so incompetent at rocketry.  Why is that?

Aren't HAMAS the elected government of Gaza?


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
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Palestine started it. And it is Palestine who has no regard for human life whatsoever. Israel warned everyone in Gaza to evacuate, Palestine would rather their own people die in a hopeless cause by ordering them to stay in their homes and face death head on. How cruel.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Israel should retake Gaza from Palestine. They should go on a full offensive and conquer the Gaza Strip. Show those people that they will have better lives as Israeli citizens than with a government who would use them as nothing more than fodder for political purposes.



It's the only way to stop rockets from Gaza.  

The posters against them keep saying they are occupying Gaza, might as well make them happy and take the dang place for good.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



If I had my way I'd follow your logic 100%. However, Israel is going to wimp out because they worry what other governments think. They will collapse the tunnels, find some weapon dumps, then leave to have it all happen all over again. 

Of all the TV shows I've watched I've noticed the good guys major problem is they let the bad guys live. And the bad guys always comes back for revenge. The only solution is the permanent solution.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



and israel dropped her bombs anyhow.

who started it is irrelevant. where were these people going to evacuate to? gaza city has a population density more than 12 times that of chicago. where was safe?


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



There is an argument for bulldozing homes that were built without a building permit. 
If the Palestinians have a valid counter argument that's fine. But they shouldn't use rockets to argue it, period.
Rockets are never justified except in war and in war you have to expect your opponent to fire back. And you have to accept defeat if your opponent is more powerful than you. Or you die.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



When Palestine fired that first rocket into Israel, they made it deftly clear that they wanted Israel dead. So how do you react to that kind of statement? Do you sit there and take it, while the enemy instills fear in to the hearts of your citizens? Or do you defend yourself and your people? Hamas could use someone like you in their PR department.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...


That is the point, they try to win and won before several fights over the world justification, but after this operation and the events it is clearly Hamas faults just like Hossfly said before, even the Arab world blame Hamas, yes Israel agreed to any proposal of ceasefire and Hamas still shooting rockets, so lets keep pissing off Israel and its not by insulting or not recognizing Israel, its with fucking rockets that made to kill people not to spread the peace and love of the Islam.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...


What kind of response would it warrant in your world?


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



LOL.  Now it's irrelevant who started it...............

If a little kid keeps punching a big kid, who says stop it over and over again, eventually the big kid is going to knock the living hell out of that little kid.

The little kid is at fault, because he wouldn't stop.

LIGHTS OUT.................


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Zionists have killed 50 children so far in the pogrom they carry out in Gaza, so sad the truth is a matter you simply have no eyes to see or ears to hear. So pathetic being a Zionist, the lowest life form that is and one deaf and dumb and blind to truth. 



MHunterB said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Targeting civilians in a land you occupy is not self defense..... (hateful filth which followed has been removed)
> ...


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Egypt, Jordan, lots of muslim countries for muzzies to live in.


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## Daniyel (Jul 17, 2014)

So we have the 'Unfair Advantage' that lil **** [MENTION=44777]Snouter[/MENTION] was talking about, makes it even more wise to attack Israel who said "Lets talk and negotiate" instead of actually talking.


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> would you ever be cowed into submitting just because the odds were against you?



The only 'submitting' HAMAS would have to do is leave the Israeli people alone and not fire any more rockets at them.  HAMAS has a very clear intent not simply to create a 'Palestinian' state (Islamist theocratic dictatorship) - but to do so on every square inch of what is Israel, in complete defiance of the UN rulings which established the right to a 'Palestinian' state in the first place.

Somehow, I cannot distort reality far enough to justify HAMAS' continuing attempts to destroy its neighboring state.  Evidently you can......


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Give it a rest.

Palestine was part of multi nation contingents that failed to end Israel in the Palestine War, and the 6 day war. The intifadas were complete disasters as well. Israel has withstood multiple attempts to end it's existence. Palestine hasn't. In fact, because of their actions, they are endangering their own existence. They have been on the losing end of four wars, and as we speak on the way to a crushing defeat in a fifth one. Each time Israel has made clear that they are there to stay and anyone who threatens their existence will be met with all deliberate force.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



i hope you don't have kids.


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## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Stop feeding the Troll.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 17, 2014)

Pali logic:

"We hate the jews, we are going to march them into the sea. Anytime we can kill a Jew, we do. We will attack their buses, their cafes, we will slit their children's throats, we will shoot rockets at Israel, but how dare they respond!!!"


Palis are like 6 year old children. Really.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Don't know any muzzies, must be a new Zionist hate word, all you baby killing scum are filled with is hate. 



Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



I've got 3 kids.  All grown up.  Force is only necessary if provoked.  They were taught to defend themselves and to stand their ground.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Hamas has been punching Israel over and over again.  While Israel can handle some punches it eventually gets tired of the jerks and Smacks their sorry butts.

To hell with Hamas, and all their radical Islamic buddies..........They are enemies of Freedom and Humanity.  They are now being held accountable for their actions .

AS IT SHOULD BE.


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## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> We're wearing ogi down.
> He's running out of witless comments!



We need to ignore him and stop feeding the Troll


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Zionists have killed 50 children so far ...(offensive filth and pseudo-sadness gloating has been removed)



*No, the real pity is that the l'il sherriliar's pea brain is addled from too much 'cucumber' activity in her enthusiasm for HAMAS murderers.....  The ones who REFUSED NEGOTIATIONS were HAMAS - so the deaths of anyone in the ensuing conflict are to be laid at their feet. 

Truly, the lowest form of life is a hypocrite who pretends to be a Christian pacifist humanitarian and enthusiastically supports whoever tries to murder people just because they live in Israel.........*


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

Putting Sherri and ogi on ignore.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



you're right, but there is something wrong with beating someone to death because they shove you.

that's what we have here - i understand that theoretically the rockets were deadly, but the reality is they hardly ever kill anyone. in response though, israel has killed more than 200 just in the last two weeks. hundreds more are wounded, and property has been destroyed.

it's disproportionate, and it should not be tolerated.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Israel started it. They started targeting civilians with air strikes and now they start a ground invasion. Hope everyone of the Zionist want to be baby killers reaps all they have sown and it's now they do all the reaping. 

It's Israel who deliberately targeted and has killed 50 children, Israel alone bears responsibility.



TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Putting Sherri and ogi on ignore.



god forbid you read something that might make you realize that there are real people dying at the hands of israel.


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Don't know any muzzies .... (obnoxious filth and hate spewage removed)



I'm thinking the poor unfortunate cucumber was wilted by the poisonous exudations above.....kind of like those 'arrow' toads, the l'il sherriliar is.  Must be frustrating to constantly need a new cuke.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Putting Sherri and ogi on ignore.



If everyone did that they would have carte blanche to spout their bullshit with no one to oppose them.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

Basically this is what it amounts to:


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

And I would add over 70% killed are civilians unlawfully targeted.



ogibillm said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Israel started it. They started targeting civilians with air strikes and now they start a ground invasion. Hope everyone of the Zionist want to be baby killers reaps all they have sown and it's now they do all the reaping.
> 
> It's Israel who deliberately targeted and has killed 50 children, Israel alone bears responsibility.
> 
> ...



Rockets came first.


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## eagle1462010 (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



BS.

Rockets are designed to kill, but they are inaccurate.  If my neighborhood got hit and nobody was hurt..........I'd still be WHO THE HELL DID THAT.............And the neighborhood would hunt them down..............

You can't justify their actions.  Whether they are killing with them is not the issue as their intent is quite clear.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Putting Sherri and ogi on ignore.
> ...



Of course. They would have no support from us, with only the air to suffer the indignity of being used to spout such nonsense.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> And I would add over 70% killed are civilians unlawfully targeted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wars can't be won without killing a few civilians. It's a fact and Israel can't change that fact.

Tell Hamas to come out in the open and fight fair so Israel won't have to kill any civilians getting to them. That'll solve the problem.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Basically this is what it amounts to:



do you really not see what's wrong with that?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > And I would add over 70% killed are civilians unlawfully targeted.
> ...


will israel fight fair? will israel arm hamas to the same level they are (or proportionately disarm)? or will they keep bringing a tank to the rock fight?


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## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Troll


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...



That's not what fight fair means. This ain't no game, we don't give everyone 5000 dollars so everyone is exactly even. You got what you got. Stop hiding behind the civilians and come out in the open. If you can't win you don't deserve to win.


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

"you're right, but there is something wrong with beating someone to death because they shove you.

that's what we have here - i understand that theoretically the rockets were deadly, but the reality is they hardly ever kill anyone. in response though, israel has killed more than 200 just in the last two weeks. hundreds more are wounded, and property has been destroyed.

it's disproportionate, and it should not be tolerated. "

Ogi - if he's right, he's right.  The  reality is that Israel has spent BILLIONS on creating bomb shelters, in which whole towns basically have lived for months at times - whereas HAMAS has chosen to appropriate goods and materials intended for civilian projects (like water treatment plants) to use in building infiltration tunnels, smuggling tunnels - and rockets.

Those have been HAMAS' poor decisions, which have left the Gazan population so vulnerable.  And, although the Israelis have phoned and leafleted ahead to do their best to allow the civilians to LEAVE imminent targets - HAMAS has *ordered* those people to remain in place, specifically hoping to cause more casualties among their own civilians.

The 'shoving' which you posted about is entirely a misrepresentation.  READ the HAMAS charter and report to us about their stated goals......


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...


not much motivation to fight fair as you put it then, is there? israel has the military superiority, no doubt about that. thus, conventional warfare is not an attractive, or even possible, option for the palestinians.


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## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Israel should retake Gaza from Palestine. They should go on a full offensive and conquer the Gaza Strip. Show those people that they will have better lives as Israeli citizens than with a government who would use them as nothing more than fodder for political purposes.



I agree.  Because the place sure has gone to hell in the last nine years.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

The civilians have the legal right to stay in their homes.

Israel targeting them in their homes is what is unlawful.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Then surrender.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

The funny thing is if Hamas was really destroyed they would only be replaced by a more extremist Muslim group, like ISIS.

There will always be resistance to occupation, and that is as it should be.

Palestine has gotten rid of many occupiers, the child killing Zionists will be ultimately defeated as all the others were.


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The civilians have the legal right to stay in their homes.
> 
> Israel targeting them in their homes is what is unlawful.



Not how it works in war. When we went to war against Germany we carpet bombed their apartment residential districts. It is what it is. Not illegal.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



not much of an option there, either. 

whether you or i like it or not, they're fighting for what they believe in. somehow thinking that they're going to 'fight fair' or surrender just isn't realistic.
guerrilla warfare will be the order of the day


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Occupation invites resistance, it is the very essence of Occupation.  Resistance will never stop.




Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Then don't complain when they fight back and try to kill you.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



again, nobody is trying to kill me.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Occupation invites resistance, it is the very essence of Occupation.  Resistance will never stop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Israel is not occupation, it is the capital of the kingdom of God ruled by Jesus with a Jew on either hand. If you fight that you fight every idiot who believes in the bible.


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## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

MHunterB said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > would you ever be cowed into submitting just because the odds were against you?
> ...



Just stop feeding the Troll


----------



## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Israel started it.........(Offensive filth and lies removed)



*There it goes, the l'il sherriliar spewing filth and lies again!  

Yes, indeedy!  "Israel started it" - by accepting its portion of the Mandate for its State, and trying to survive the attacks by the Arab League cabal, the boycott by the Arab League cabal - and of course the ethnic cleansing by the Arab League cabal.  

In actual fact, the failure of 'Palestine' to declare its State back in '47 was due to the nefarious connivance of the Arab League conspirators.  The conflict with Israel is PART of 'Palestine's problems - but the pattern of abuse by their Arab League masters is very clear, even to some of the Palestinians. 

The Palestinians will never have the dignity they deserve, until they throw off the Arab League yoke and become a free people.  Then they can negotiate with Israel on equal terms, and not as the pitiful beggar stepchild of Arab League conspirators. *


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



why do you say i'm trolling? because i don't agree with israel?


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Basically this is what it amounts to:
> ...



Nothing whatsoever. I hate bullies. Hamas is a bully. Bullies need to get decked.


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Occupation invites resistance, it is the very essence of Occupation.  Resistance will never stop.



*
Absolutely correct!  Of course, that's in terms of HAMAS occupying Gaza - which is what they're doing.   The poor Gazans have very little means to resist HAMAS' vile excesses and abuses - but I'm willing to believe the majority have indeed remained human despite the odds.  You know what I mean, the hate that is HAMAS kiddy TV and the hate taught in classrooms, the idolizing of HAMAS baby murderers...... all of that.
*


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## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Putting Sherri and ogi on ignore.
> ...



God forbid you would post something of substance instead of just being a fucking Troll.

Ooops, I just fed the Troll myself.


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## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Just give them a chance to get to know you better..........


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

MHunterB said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



lol. that was pretty good.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



Welcome to the club pal! In a thread like this, trolls are everywhere.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 17, 2014)

Israel carries out an Occupation and it has been ongoing for over 45 years now. And the Palestinians resist the Occupation. That is the story in Gaza and East Jerusalem and the West Bank. Israel is not the capital of the kingdom of God. Israel is a secular nation created in 1948, birthed through ethnic cleansing.  The Kingdom of God is what believers in Jesus enter upon Salvation. You want to know what Jesus thinks of the Israel He knew ( a people and not a nation/land), read Matthew 23. Fighting Israel is fighting Satan. 



Slyhunter said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Occupation invites resistance, it is the very essence of Occupation.  Resistance will never stop.
> ...


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



That's the one thing you don't have in common with an Israeli citizen. You don't live in fear as you walk the streets each day. You don't know what real fear is.


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## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> And I would add over 70% killed are civilians unlawfully targeted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can add?


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



if israelis are walking in fear how do you think people in gaza feel? far more likely they'll be killed or injured than any israeli


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## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



They got nothing to fear if they stop firing rockets into Israel.


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## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



They got the Gaza in 2008 with a complete infrastructure plus billions in aid from the UN.
They immediately destroyed the infrastructure and elected Hamas as their leaders.
The only thing they export is whining and terrorism.
Any group of over 1 million that is that fucking stupid when they can see the world going by on the Internet deserves what they get.


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## ogibillm (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



what percentage of the population do you believe actually fires those rockets?


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



There's nobody in Gaza now except the terrorists. The fear the Gazans feel are because of their own government using them as shields. But you'd have to be there to know. Stop acting like you know what it's like out there. You don't.


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## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



The .000001 that hides amongst the 99.000009.
Any other stupid questions, Jew hating pussy pacifist?


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

There is a famous saying, if you sleep with blind, you get up cross eyed...

When you look at Middle East, you don't see any barbaric Arab states becoming more like "democratic" Israel, but "democratic" Israel becoming more like barbaric Arab states.

I wish those bloody barbaric Arabs didn't kill Rabin because he wanted peace and was almost getting one... oh wait...


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



ogi knows; he's just taking the "Oh my gosh!", surprised, open mouthed anti-Israel route.


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## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



The percentage who happen to be terrorists. Who hide in this city, 12 times as dense as Chicago, using the people as cover.


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## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> There is a famous saying, if you sleep with blind, you get up cross eyed...
> 
> When you look at Middle East, you don't see any barbaric Arab states becoming more like "democratic" Israel, but "democratic" Israel becoming more like barbaric Arab states.
> 
> I wish those bloody barbaric Arabs didn't kill Rabin because he wanted peace and was almost getting one... oh wait...



Rabin's peace would have lasted 2 months...MAYBE.
And yet again, let's compare one assassination to an every day occurrence amongst the Arab nations.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



And the next question; who is firing rockets on them "knowing" they are hiding among the civilians???

ISRAEL!!!


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## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> They got the Gaza in *2005* with a complete infrastructure plus billions in aid from the UN.
> They immediately destroyed the infrastructure and elected Hamas as their leaders.
> The only thing they export is whining and terrorism.
> Any group of over 1 million that is that fucking stupid when they can see the world going by on the Internet deserves what they get.



Fixed it for you.  It's been nine years.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



What percentage of the German population do you think was actively engaged in World War?
What percentage of the Japanese population bombed Pearl Harbor?
It's a redundant question that doesn't matter.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > There is a famous saying, if you sleep with blind, you get up cross eyed...
> ...



Don't act like you are any better than HAMAS. You are all the same shit, with a different scent and color. 

FUCK YOU ALL!


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Another idiot who doesn't understand that just about every military activity these days is tracked by some type of radar or other technology.
If Israel fired at a target that wasn't the source of an attack the UN wouldn't be so polite.


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...



You are comparing a nation, Israel, with a 98% literacy rate to a nation that sends it's children to Bomb Making School?


----------



## toastman (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> There is a famous saying, if you sleep with blind, you get up cross eyed...
> 
> When you look at Middle East, you don't see any barbaric Arab states becoming more like "democratic" Israel, but "democratic" Israel becoming more like barbaric Arab states.
> 
> I wish those bloody barbaric Arabs didn't kill Rabin because he wanted peace and was almost getting one... oh wait...




Israel is becoming more like the Arab states?????

Wow, that couldn't be further than the truth. You should consider editing your posts before you press 'Submit'.


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



Thank you Templar and Lipush very much for this information as I believe that *it actually relates to this thread.*  I followed some of the links and it is interesting that I cannot seem to access the www.moi.gov.ps webpage.  It times out.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 17, 2014)

Lipush said:


> First, for kidnapping the 3 boys, which was what started the escalation.
> 
> Second, for their arrogance and abusing of both Israeli and Palestinian civilians.


Where's the evidence they had something to do with the kidnapping in the Israeli controlled West Bank?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > First, for kidnapping the 3 boys, which was what started the escalation.
> ...



Another red herring.
Do you really expect people to jump to your tune?
What part of It's a war do you have trouble understanding?


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > First, for kidnapping the 3 boys, which was what started the escalation.
> ...



Granted there is not.  Supposedly an arm of ISIS claimed responsibility for the kidnapping and murder of the three.  And that is out there.

However, Hamas started firing rockets at Israel for taking a very aggressive stance to try to find the children before their fate was known.

But what the heck am I doing?  This has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread. I just fed another.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Don't get me wrong, I would prefer Israel to any other bullshit Arab state, any day.

What is disturbing, you expecting anyone to be onboard with your retarded right wing, insane government.

You killed Rabin, why, because you didnt like the peace terms... You wanted MORE, right...

But than you come to USA asking for money to get an IRON DOME...

And what do you offer in exchange???

That is my question, what does Israel offer in exchange to billons of tax dollars they receive from the USA?

When you had the chance, and when you still have the chance to get a peace and start paying USA back the money, but instead you keep on with this bullshit...

If you want to kick a DEAD HORSE, be my guest, but don't do it on my TAX DOLLARS.

BE A MAN!!!


----------



## longknife (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...



Did you even stop to think that maybe Israel having and using the Iron Dome system is a huge plus for the USA?

Think about it. It was a small part of Pres Reagan's SDI initiative that got killed by a Democrat congress. Now, we are seeing exactly how effective it can be with a minimum expenditure of funds.

And, as the IDF gains experience, they'll pass it on to us further enhancing our knowledge of anti-missile defense systems.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Granted there is not.  Supposedly an arm of ISIS claimed responsibility for the kidnapping and murder of the three.  And that is out there.
> 
> However, Hamas started firing rockets at Israel for taking a very aggressive stance to try to find the children before their fate was known.
> 
> But what the heck am I doing?  This has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread. I just fed another.


It wasn't just arresting all those Palestinian's, they also launched missile strikes in Gaza as well.

If someone shoots at you, you have every right to shoot back, which is what Hamas did.

Unfortunately, the method they chose to shoot back, is a war crime.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > Don't act like you are any better than HAMAS. You are all the same shit, with a different scent and color.
> ...



Ya, anybody who don't think like you, and is not fond of lending you money for some fantasy DOME, is a troll, right...

And why?

Because YOU think so...

That's right, YOU, that nobody else gives a shit about, thinks so...

Fuck you buddy, who the fuck are you? 

You are just having fun over there with US TAX DOLLARS, who gives a shit about what you think??? You are just like a spoiled kid never satisfied.

Get over yourself...


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Just stop feeding the Troll
> ...



Hmmm.  Well let me start with all the ways.  First off, let me remind you what it means:



> In Internet slang, a troll (/&#712;tro&#650;l/, /&#712;tr&#594;l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]



Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then let me tell you that you and you alone have sown enough discourse in this thread to make it grow exponentially and quickly from what it might have should have been a two page to twenty (or so by the time I get this written).

Now here is some other guidelines about this section:



> Each post must contain content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads



http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/285207-zone-2-posting-rules.html

To wit.  All your posts have not contained anything but a hit and run flame.  There has been nothing (or very very litlle) that I have read in your posts in this thread that have had any substantial content.  No. And not only that but you have continually flip flopped your position(s) in whatever direction it took for you to keep your Troll fed and alive.  Unfortunately, you have been successful as many many others have kept your Troll fed.

And that it the very last morsel I will give you.  However, I am sure that will keep your Troll fed for a very long time.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> Another red herring.
> Do you really expect people to jump to your tune?
> What part of It's a war do you have trouble understanding?


The part about no one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit.

I guess you didn't get the memo?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Another red herring.
> ...



Tell that to the citizens of Germany whom we bombed during WWII.
It happens.
You don't want it to happen don't start it by firing rockets into the neighboring country.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

longknife said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Ya ya ya, sure sure sure...

Tell this to the hundreds of thousands of families that lost their houses after the financial crisis...

I am sure they would really appreciate a fucking DOME sitting 10.000 miles away, which wouldn't be needed in the first place if Israel did make a peace.

pfffff

how stupid you are...


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...



Who do you think gets to use the Iron Dome next?
Go ahead, take a guess.
Not a bad piece of technology for 250 million.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

If I did have the power to do so, I would give 1 week notice before NUKING the whole region, all together.

Fuck your holly land!!!

Stop fucking with my pocket retards...


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...



Thankfully, the rest of the Arab Peninsula LOVES Europe and the US.
What are you smoking?


----------



## MHunterB (Jul 17, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Israel ..... (obnoxious filth and disgusting HAMAS-sucking rhetoric removed, along with asinine 'Biblical interpretation' by hatemongerer)........  Fighting Israel is fighting Satan.



Yup, l'il sherriliarfilth - you surely DO need to find a new church to go to, as you really do not agree with any of the Baptist Churches there!  I'd suggest you try 'Christian Identity' or perhaps those 'Shepherds' Chapel' instead.  Both of those delight in demonizing the Jewish People as much as you : ))


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Thank you, I would prefer health care and a pay raise instead.

You can shove your IRON DOME up yours.

I just expect Israel to pay back all the HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS of the US citizens that did finance the piece of technology that they should be appreciating greatly...


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 17, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> Tell that to the citizens of Germany whom we bombed during WWII.
> It happens.
> You don't want it to happen don't start it by firing rockets into the neighboring country.


The rockets were in response to Israeli aggression.

Everyone has a right to defend themselves, including Hamas.


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Granted there is not.  Supposedly an arm of ISIS claimed responsibility for the kidnapping and murder of the three.  And that is out there.
> ...



Can you substantiate your claim?  The one that says that Israel fired first?  IIRC, Hamas started firing rockets when Israel started to try to find (and yes I must admit very aggressive methods were used) the three kidnapped kids.  Hamas started this latest round of missiles *before* their bodies were found.  And that is when Israel fired back, not before.

Oops, another morsel


----------



## toastman (Jul 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Tell that to the citizens of Germany whom we bombed during WWII.
> ...



That's the same excuse you use every time Billo. Guess what, every time Hamas launches rockets, Israel is going to attack them. It's that simple.

BTW, how the fuck is launching a barrage of rockets indiscriminately at civilians considered defending??? Please answer this question, as i would love an explanation.


----------



## toastman (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > longknife said:
> ...



Judging by his anger, I would say crack.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 17, 2014)

toastman said:


> That's the same excuse you use every time Billo. Guess what, every time Hamas launches rockets, Israel is going to attack them. It's that simple.
> 
> BTW, how the fuck is launching a barrage of rockets indiscriminately at civilians considered defending??? Please answer this question, as i would love an explanation.


Because Israel fired first.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Tell that to the citizens of Germany whom we bombed during WWII.
> ...



Defend themselves from what?
Israel only attacks Gaza when they attack Israel.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

toastman said:


> That's the same excuse you use every time Billo. Guess what, every time Hamas launches rockets, Israel is going to attack them. It's that simple.



It is funny thinking the same applies to the other side 

Meaning, as long as Israel hits, they will hit (at least try to) back.

But at the same time, you realize you are kicking an already dead horse, right?



toastman said:


> BTW, how the fuck is launching a barrage of rockets indiscriminately at civilians considered defending??? Please answer this question, as i would love an explanation.



I am curious about the answer to this also...


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 17, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > That's the same excuse you use every time Billo. Guess what, every time Hamas launches rockets, Israel is going to attack them. It's that simple.
> ...



Bullshit.


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...



I'll tell you right now who I am "buddy".  I see that you fail to have in your profile where you live.  I do.  You are more than welcome to look me up in my town in Randle, WA and say that same thing to my face.  And I have no problems with *MY Tax dollars* being spent in that way.  Notice the difference?  I said MINE.  You said US as if it is an ambiguous source.

I could go on, but my invite stands firmly.

Crap, I fed another morsel . . . .


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

toastman said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...




Hmmm, and why do they hate US and Europe exactly???

Or should I ask, when they started hating?

Cmon, this is an easy one...


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



And it is also *MY* tax dollars, and I don't agree how it is being used. Israel should sign a peace deal and stop this bullshit so I can get a better health care and a pay raise so I can afford a better life standard.

And when you can think better and put some logic into this and realize this would also benefit *YOU*, I will let you know where I live so you can come over and thank me...


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Mohamed.
Great Britain slicing up the Arabian Peninsula as it pleased and apportioning the newly found oil to their Arab cronies.
Oh, you thought those oil sheiks found all that oil on their own?! 
You know those Arabs kicked Britain out AFTER Britain found the oil.
You DO know that?


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Who are the Arabs to kick anyone out...

You really believe this story???

It was US who kicked Britain out. US owns the oil and the asses in the mid east, nobody else...

Otherwise Saudis wouldn't be flying f15s and riding abrams. And they like it too. They are the closest relatives to Mo, you realize that right?

US could seduce those savages easily, if it was not Israel. It would be a piece of cake. 

Now look at the mess in our hands...


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > There is a famous saying, if you sleep with blind, you get up cross eyed...
> ...



SHAME ON YOU!

Comparing Rabin assassination to bunch of hamas mob leaders killing each other.

SHAME ON YOU!

So Rabin peace would only last 2 months ha... And you thrive on that ha...

SHAME ON YOU!

He shook hands with a Arafat, because he loved his people, he wanted this madness to stop, and you are from from understanding this self sacrifice.

SHAME ON YOU!

Because you are sooo far from your greatest leader, even Arafat understood him better than you...

SHAME ON YOU!


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

alpine said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...



You don't get it.
It doesn't matter what Rabin's intentions were.
He was most probably earnest.
The ARABS would have sat back, stockpiled weapons and attacked at the first opportunity.
And THIS is what YOU don't get.
The Arabs destroyed Lebanon, what makes you think they would want to see Israel thrive?
By the way, get a refund from Mrs. Arafat.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 17, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



The server must be down now, all of Gaza is without power. That's why I copied and pasted the translation.


----------



## alpine (Jul 17, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Destroy Israel with what? Seriously, with WHAT?

What do they have to destroy Israel with?

If Israel agreed peace and Rabin was not assassinated and was asking for my tax dollars to invest in their protection, for an IRON DOME, as a "just in case" safety, I would say "take more of my tax dollars", because they would have deserved it to the last bit.

I still get thrill watching the documentary about the 6 day war, simply heroic, what a story.

But watching what is happening right now, I got disgusted.

Maybe you really believe Arabs have the means to "destroy" Israel, but anyone with any logic can see no Arab state has anything close to the military might Israel has at the moment. The only force would be Saudis with their abrams, but their ass are owned by US.

What is the worst Arabs can do to Israel?

TERROR!

That's their only weapon. They blow themselves up because that's all they can do. You killing civilians like the way you do right now, you are just creating more of them. You are shooting yourself in your own foot.

And all warmongers here should stop presenting themselves like the representatives of all Israeli people. We all know some smart Israeli people protesting this war in ISRAEL at the moment, and there are political parties in the Israeli Parliament also pointing out this war is detriment to the Israeli people but profitable for the gun makers.

It is obvious, for the minds that are not blinded by the curse of religion and racism, and all other mind blockers; 

THIS IS NOT A WAR THAT YOU OR ANYBODY CAN WIN...THIS IS VENDETTA AND THERE IS NO END TO THIS...


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 17, 2014)

Alpine,
As long as the life of one is threatened because they're a Jew, it's my problem.
Maybe you don't feel that way about any particular group of people, but I do.

And your argument is that we trust in God that those neighboring nations will never be able to destroy Israel?
If you were the President of these nations I'd take a stab at peace.
But you're not.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

Penelope said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > amity1844 said:
> ...



Indeed, Israel is the mooch capital of the world. Those freeloaders always have their hand out.


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 18, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...







 The Palestinians set the price themselves when they traded one dead Israeli for 2,000 live Palestinians.   So you do the sums. And the Israeli's involved in the death of the Palestinian teen have been arrested and face trial, now about those hamas scum that are been hidden ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 18, 2014)

amity1844 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...






 Yes by known hamas operatives as the voice recordings prove. So someone is hiding them and until they are caught and tried for murder the Israelis cant trust the Palestinians

 Constant rocket fire into Israel and denying the Palestinians the right to safety

 Did they vote for hamas and start this whole mess, then they are all guilty of Hamas's actions.  Collective responsibility comes at a cost.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



*Bingo!*

"We are not as interested in killing Israelis as much as interrupting their lives as much as they interrupt ours." ~ Islamic Jihad

The plan is to reduce Israel's production and income while increasing its cost.

Israel cannot bomb it way out of that.


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 18, 2014)

amity1844 said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Firing rockets into Israel, where you've been?
> ...





 Is that your only measure of the seriousness of terrorist attacks, the death toll.

 If hamas spent a tenth of its terrorism bill on providing underground bunkers for its civilians then the death toll would be virtually ZERO as well.

 THINK ON THAT FACT AND WORK OUT WHO IS REALLY CAUSING THE DEATHS


----------



## Crystalclear (Jul 18, 2014)

alpine said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > alpine said:
> ...



Of course they can't destroy Israel without help of other Arab nations. But they form a threat to Israeli civilians by bombing and digging tunnels to kibbutzes. I can imagine that Israel wants to stop the threatening activities.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Good advice, civilians have the right to stay in their homes and say fuck you, you baby killing Zionists.
> 
> You got it, Zionist?
> 
> ...



If you knew half a thing about being a good parent, it means that you keep your young safe even if the cost is 'cooperating' with Zionist warnings.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > It's fucking simple. Don't fire rockets into Israel. Then if Israel is as blood thirsty as you nuts think they are and attack you anyhow they will have to face the might of the US. But until you stop firing rockets into Israel you are on your own.
> ...



No rockets, no airstrikes.

Really is THAT simple.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



Good point. Not much longer. Here are only a few of many examples.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTEeE9QhJl8]NYC Rally For Israel, Pro-Palestinian Protesters Counter-Demonstration - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqh3oGSl2RM]Free Free Palestine Protest in Bradford 14/07/2014 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ8IrkNlOUg]France: Marseille protesters call for end to Israeli strikes on Gaza - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0onHWevHLa0]Worldwide protests condemn Israel attack on Gaza - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

And where has all these Rallies gotten 'Palestine' , Tinmore? 

These idiot leftists expect Israel to sit idle while rockets are launched at her. That's why they , like you, have no credibility.


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## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> Defend themselves from what?
> Israel only attacks Gaza when they attack Israel.


Wrong!  The occupation started 37 years before the first rocket attack was ever made.

I call that incredible patience on the part of the Palestinian's.

The problem isn't the rockets, it's the occupation and Israeli aggression against its neighbors.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> Bullshit.


HTF would you know?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> And where has all these Rallies gotten 'Palestine' , Tinmore?
> 
> *These idiot leftists expect Israel to sit idle while rockets are launched at her.* That's why they , like you, have no credibility.



That is Israel's talking point crap.

These people are on a different page.


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## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> No rockets, no airstrikes.
> 
> Really is THAT simple.



The rockets were stopped in 2008 and they still got airstrikes.


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## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

The rockets never stopped.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

Slyhunter said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > And I would add over 70% killed are civilians unlawfully targeted.
> ...



Like the candy ass Israelis who are always hiding in tanks, armored bulldozers, airplanes,...


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## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Defend themselves from what?
> ...



So before the rockets, Palestinians weren't attacking Israel?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> The rockets never stopped.


Yeah the did.  They stopped for 4 months until Israel conducted a commando raid on December 4, 2008.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

And before the 1967 "occupation", Palestinians weren't attacking Israel?


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## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> So before the rockets, Palestinians weren't attacking Israel?


As long as the occupation exists, it's not an attack, it's resistance.

And it is legal.


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



Sure they were. They have been resisting the occupation since 1948.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > The rockets never stopped.
> ...



You keep repeating the lie, but it won't make it true.

Prior to December, 2008, there were dozens of rockets fired from Gaza, _*per day*_.

I'm a southerner Israeli myself, and I perfectly remember those days. You repeating the nonsense is basically calling me a liar, and I don't appreicate people calling my a liar when I know and remember what I've been through.

So please stop saying things you know nothing about, which are not true.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...



Thousand of foot soldiers are not in any of those. 

And what's wring with them being in tanks, planes etc ? Isn't that how all modern militaries fight

Regardless, you lefties are ignoring the fact that Hamas launching rockets non stop, and then saying no to a cease fire is why the fighting rages on.

BTW Tinmore, what do you think of Hamas saying no to the cease fire?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> And before the 1967 "occupation", Palestinians weren't attacking Israel?


If you're looking for when we should "start the clock" on all the violence, it starts at the Zionist migration into the area.

No major incidents of violence occurred between Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews before that.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > So before the rockets, Palestinians weren't attacking Israel?
> ...



As I asked before, 

The years before the occupation, so called, were us and the Palestinians BFFs?

Again, you chose to ignore parts of history and create one suiting your agenda?


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



There was no Israeli occupation in 1948... Whoops!


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > And before the 1967 "occupation", Palestinians weren't attacking Israel?
> ...



It started with the Zionist migration? And why, was the Zionist migration forbidden? After the Holocaust, Jews had nowhere to go, and they didn't want to stay in cursed Europe. So they migrated to the promised land. 

What is wrong with that?


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > And before the 1967 "occupation", Palestinians weren't attacking Israel?
> ...



Again with this lie? 

And Jews migrating to Mandatory Palestine on the invitation and facilitation of the British is not a reason to attack people.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



He knows that, but according to Tinmore, ALL of "Palestine" is occupied. That what differences him from other Anti-Zionists.

They say the occupation is of 67, he says Israel is illegal priod, and that "Palestine" should exist in the ghetto 48 borders.

That is what makes him the most fanatic amongs the haters. Be careful with that one.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...



Nobody negotiated a ceasefire.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


I'm sorry, I was wrong.  It was November 5, 2008, not December 4th.



> _Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
> 
> A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory._


Stop trying to re-write history!


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

That is because Hamas prefers dozens of more Palestinians dying, so they can blame Israel for their own refusal.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



I'm not. 

Your own swallowing of lies is pathetic.


----------



## Crystalclear (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > Defend themselves from what?
> ...




And why is this occupation? Because Israel won territory from Egypt (the Gaza Strip) and Jordan (the West Bank) in a defensive war where Israel was attacked from all sides.
And why should Israel be nice to Arab countries who want to destroy Israel and the Jews?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Technically you may be correct. It was the 1949 armistice agreements that officially divided Palestine into three areas of occupation.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> As I asked before,
> 
> The years before the occupation, so called, were us and the Palestinians BFFs?
> 
> Again, you chose to ignore parts of history and create one suiting your agenda?


I don't have an agenda and I don't ignore anything or anyone.

In the years before the occupation, both sides are guilty of violence, but all the violence was initiated by Israel.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Crystalclear said:


> And why is this occupation? Because Israel won territory from Egypt (the Gaza Strip) and Jordan (the West Bank) in a defensive war where Israel was attacked from all sides.
> And why should Israel be nice to Arab countries who want to destroy Israel and the Jews?


The war started with Israeli tanks crossing into Egypt, so it wasn't a defensive war.

And ever since the end of WWII, holding onto land seized in a war, has been outlawed.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> I'm not.
> 
> Your own swallowing of lies is pathetic.


I can at least prove my lie is true, how come you can't prove yours?


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Again with the lies.

Yes, you have an agenda, and it's not an honest one.

Was it Israel that decided to open a war in 1948?

What is Israel that closed the Tiran passages, declaring war in innocent civilians, in 1967?


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Oh I'm very familiar with Tinmore's shtick. Some people have no idea what they're talking about.

BTW, since I can't really start a topic about it, did you hear that one of the passengers on the Malaysian was an Israeli?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> That is because Hamas prefers dozens of more Palestinians dying, so they can blame Israel for their own refusal.


Refusal of what?  Where's the evidence they had anything to do with the kidnapping?


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Ya that is one of your lies as well. How many times are you going to spew it?


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not.
> ...



The attack of Rafah was because Hamas was buiding tunnles in the area, and the ceasefires, ALL kind of ceasefires ever made with Hamas NEVER included tolerating tunnles, EVER. Israel always clarified that tunnles are to be destroyed, at all times.

Hamas took the risk. Those tunnles are in order to murder, and Israel doesn't wait for people to get killed, it saves them first.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What?? Egypt offered a cease fire. Israel accepted. Hamas didn't. Do you agree with them?


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > That is because Hamas prefers dozens of more Palestinians dying, so they can blame Israel for their own refusal.
> ...



I wasn't talking about the kidnapping, I was taking about the Hamas refusing the Egyptian initiative!

You're not following.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Until the truth changes.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> > And why is this occupation? Because Israel won territory from Egypt (the Gaza Strip) and Jordan (the West Bank) in a defensive war where Israel was attacked from all sides.
> ...



Please show me where it says that firing the first shot automatically means starting the war?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Again with the lies.


Again with the bullshit!

All you're doing, is repeating baseless accusations you can't prove.




Lipush said:


> Yes, you have an agenda, and it's not an honest one.


Why would I have an agenda?   I know that's a question you can't answer.  

Why is everyone who criticizes Israel personally attacked?




Lipush said:


> Was it Israel that decided to open a war in 1948?


How do you think the residents at Deir Yassan would answer that?




Lipush said:


> What is Israel that closed the Tiran passages, declaring war in innocent civilians, in 1967?


The war didn't start until Israeli tanks rolled into Egypt.

And the Strait was closed in part as a response to Israeli aggression against Syria.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

*So you're trying to change the truth, Tinmore*

THANK YOU for finally admitting it.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What truth? Show me one link that says 'the Armistice lines separated Palestine into 3 areas of occupation'


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> Please show me where it says that firing the first shot automatically means starting the war?


Grow up!


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Again with the lies.
> ...



The 1948 began with an Arab attack on an Israeli bus.

Actually, it began with the Arab refusal to the partition plan, something that in that time was fair to both sides.

A stupid mistake it was to refuse, but when did they ever do anything logical?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



It was written by the US/Israeli toadies in Egypt to benefit Israel.

Of course they should have rejected it.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> *So you're trying to change the truth, Tinmore*
> 
> THANK YOU for finally admitting it.


You can't handle the truth!


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Again with the lies.
> ...



The war started when the Tiran passage was closed. The Tiran passage was the main passage from which ships carrying food and basic needs to Israel came from. Closing it was a war declaration.

Israel warns Egypt, told it that it opened a war when closing the passage, that they should re-open it. Egpyt gave Israel the middle finger, Israel had no option but resisting this agression and save the people from humanitarian crisis.

Egypt was the one starting off the six days war. In fact, the only agression Israel really provoked was of 1956. All other wars were forced upon Israel, originally started by the Arab enemy.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



HAHAHAHAHA of course you have some pathetic reason to justify it.

The cease fire would have meant no more fighting between the two (for now).

So you're basically saying you are in favour of war.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > *So you're trying to change the truth, Tinmore*
> ...



Apparantly, niether can Tinmore. Or else, why would he try and change it, as he just admitted himself minutes ago?

Are you his lawyer? let the guy speak for himself.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



He clearly says- Hamas' pride shouldn't have let them agree to the ceasefire. Dozens or more Palestinian will die as a result of this refusal? Who cares??? We'll blame Israel anyway.


----------



## Crystalclear (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> > And why is this occupation? Because Israel won territory from Egypt (the Gaza Strip) and Jordan (the West Bank) in a defensive war where Israel was attacked from all sides.
> ...




Israel's strategy has always been offensive defense, because the country is too small to really defend. If Israel didn't attack, they would have been destroyed, so it was defensive


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Don't forget that Egypt expelled all the peacekeeping troops right before the war as well.
Also, before Israel attacked, they tried using non violent means to stop a war dor breaking out.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> The 1948 began with an Arab attack on an Israeli bus.


When you move into an area and start treating the residents there like garbage, after awhile, there's going to be a hostile response.

Zionists are a violent, hostile cult, that attacks anyone who disagrees with them.


> _*They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination  *
> - Ahad Ha'am_


Why anyone would support someone like that, is beyond me.



Lipush said:


> Actually, it began with the Arab refusal to the partition plan, something that in that time was fair to both sides.
> 
> A stupid mistake it was to refuse, but when did they ever do anything logical?


How is it fair to give 10% of the population, 70% of the land?


----------



## Hossfly (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Hamas would agree to considering a cease fire if someone asked nice?


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

You know, even if it was the case, Billo, I believe Jews and Arabs could have solved this thing in 1948, if only they decided to sit around the table and sort it out like civilized people.

The Jews would have agreed to it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The armistice lines were specifically *not* to be political or territorial borders.

If it was "Israel" it would have borders. But it had armistice lines just like the other two occupations.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Crystalclear said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Crystalclear said:
> ...



Israel is smart when it comes to warfare. Unlike other countries, they don't wait until they are physically attacked to strike.
Thank God Israel struck Egypt pre emptively....


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Crystalclear said:


> Israel's strategy has always been offensive defense, because the country is too small to really defend. If Israel didn't attack, they would have been destroyed, so it was defensive


Oh please, Israel is the only nuclear power in the ME, so don't give me that lame ass mantra about them being destroyed.  There isn't a single country in the ME that has the military capability to do that and the last time anyone tried, they got their ass whipped in less than a week.

BTW, there's no such thing as an "offensive defense".  That is considered aggression, which is no different than Hitler sending troops into Poland.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

Lipush said:


> You know, even if it was the case, Billo, I believe Jews and Arabs could have solved this thing in 1948, if only they decided to sit around the table and sort it out like civilized people.
> 
> The Jews would have agreed to it.


Jews, yes.  Zionists, no.


----------



## Crystalclear (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> > Israel's strategy has always been offensive defense, because the country is too small to really defend. If Israel didn't attack, they would have been destroyed, so it was defensive
> ...




Poland didn't want to kill all the Germans. Israel was in self-defense,


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Yes, they were cease fire lines.  I know they were not meant to be borders. How is that relevant? Israel now has INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED borders with Egypt and Jordan, which you cannot dispute. You are making absolutely no sense. 
Show me one, just ONE link that says that the Armistice lines 'separated Palestine into three areas of occupation' .


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 18, 2014)

I'm going to have to check out of this lovely discussion for a while.

I got my paycheck today and need to go spend some.

The day I get paid, is the day I get_............well, never mind._


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 18, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...






 According to hamas calculations 1 Israeli is worth 2,000 Palestinians, so the death toll stands at 5 Israelis and 283 Palestinians. Can you do the math or do you need some help.  A clue the hamas calculation is 10,000 Palestinians for the 5 Israelis so start from there.

Israel is civilised it put murderers away for life, it does not beat them till their flesh is soft and then eat them like the Palestinians do


 The same as that used by hamas    2,0000 Palestinians for 1 Isreali ( yes even 1 arab muslim Israeli )


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> > Israel's strategy has always been offensive defense, because the country is too small to really defend. If Israel didn't attack, they would have been destroyed, so it was defensive
> ...



LOL again with the Hitler comparison?? Don't you realize by now that you are not helping yourself by making the same old Nazi comparisons??

And the poster you quoted was referring to a period of time BEFORE Israel has nuclear missiles. Either way, having nukes has still not stopped others from attacking Israel, so what's your point? 
It's not like Israel would ever use them anyway, unless they were nukes first.


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 18, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > amity1844 said:
> ...






 Yet they can get enough to build tunnels to go out and kidnap Israelis. That is what the Israeli ground troops are doing collapsing the tunnels on the Palestinians trapped inside.

 And just recently they built a grand shopping Mall and country clubs for the hamas leadership, along with private swimming pools. So blame hamas for stealing all the concrete.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> I'm going to have to check out of this lovely discussion for a while.
> 
> I got my paycheck today and need to go spend some.
> 
> The day I get paid, is the day I get_............well, never mind._



In other words, you're buying the beers tonight? Nice.
I'll have a Molson Canadian beer please...


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 18, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > amity1844 said:
> ...





 And of course you have definitive proof that they were all civilians killed by the IDF. And not terrorists, militia and faked pictures from Syria, Lebanon and Serbia ?

 Or are you just repeating ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



True, but what does that mean?


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



As usual, you ask the wrong questions. You just asked what does a temporary cessation between the two mean??
It means exactly what it says. It would have saved many Palestinian lives, that's for sure..


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You are no better than the Hamas voters which cost the innocent life by motivating and promoting violence.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



How can you have three things defined the same way and one be different from the other two?

Israel never legally acquired the land that it controls. That would make it an occupation.


----------



## Crystalclear (Jul 18, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Crystalclear said:
> 
> 
> > And how would you feel when being attacked for a long time by terrorist organisations and neighbouring countries?
> ...




It's terrible for the average Palestinians, but they can better blame Egypt and Jordan for fighting wars that have affected the Palestinians. If they just could live together in a peaceful way with Israel, there wouldn't have been the wars in which Palestinians are driven in refugee camps.


----------



## Crystalclear (Jul 18, 2014)

There were 2 states in Palestine, until the West Bank was taken over by Jordan and the Gaza Strip by Egypt. They lost the Six Day War from Israel and lost their territories. If those 2 countries didn't start a war, Israel wouldn't have occupied those territories.


----------



## peach174 (Jul 18, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




They refuse to understand that Hamas is morally depraved.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > You know, even if it was the case, Billo, I believe Jews and Arabs could have solved this thing in 1948, if only they decided to sit around the table and sort it out like civilized people.
> ...



Actually, yes, the Zionists would have agreed to it too. They agreed to the UN Partition Plans, and the Peel Commission, oh and lets not forget the White Papers either. They've been very agreeable, it was the Arabs who chose to be ornery about it. 

Lets also remember the pact those six nations made in Khartoum. They would agree to nothing, and would not capitulate to anything involving Israel.


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 18, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



99% of the Jews are Zionists, those who immigrant to Israel are definitely Zionists.


----------



## toastman (Jul 18, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



This is another one of your lies that has been dismantled by Rocco dozens of times.
Acquiring land is a real estate issue. Israel legally declared independence on the land allotted to the Jews in resolution 181 ( Rocco and I have shown you several links that say this, but you still deny it , followed by asking irrelevant questions)
You claim that Israel needed to have acquired the land to declare independence on it legally. That is a P.F Tinmore prerequisite to legally declare independence. You made it up. 
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 18, 2014)

This is because Pali-suckers live in a Unicorn world, where Jooz are evil and Allah grants muslims the right to commit any atrocity they want, all in the named of their Koran and Hadith. Takiyyah, takkiyah, takkiya..

*spit*


----------



## peach174 (Jul 18, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




They refuse to recognize the difference between an Sovereign Nation and a Territory.
Israel was always a Nation.
Palestine was never a Nation it was a Territory.
The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E.


----------



## Lipush (Jul 18, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > You know, even if it was the case, Billo, I believe Jews and Arabs could have solved this thing in 1948, if only they decided to sit around the table and sort it out like civilized people.
> ...



Even the Zionists. The Zionist would have tolerated any initiative that grants independence to the Jews, even with 30% of the historic Israel.

We could have solved it like regular civilized people


Arabs prefered to try and force themselves and act like a bunch of chimps.

And as the saying goes.... "A fool may throw a stone into a well which a hundred wise men cannot pull out"


----------



## teddyearp (Jul 19, 2014)

Lipush said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



"You must spread some reputation around more before giving it to Lipush again"

^^^This is really the heart of the history of the issue.  However the issue at hand now is this.  If you have this going on (granted I know that the below video is over a year old):

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMMipr_ghw]Life under Hamas rocket attacks - YouTube[/ame]

Do you:

Sit back and let it happen because you have a superior missile defense system or

Defend yourself and try to stop the threats?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 20, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Horsecrap, Rocco has never refuted anything I have posted. He posts a lot of irrelevant stuff, But he does not answer my questions because the answers would prove that I am correct regularly brings up resolution as you just have,

So, What about resolution 181?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D66JSmgiUI]Who Said Israel Has a Right to Exist? - YouTube[/ame]

She is saying the same thing that I have been saying for years.


----------



## MHunterB (Jul 20, 2014)

"She is saying the same thing that I have been saying for years."


Tinny, it doesn't matter how many daft bints want to claim 'Israel's existence is illegal':  it doesn't make it true, or a valid argument.

Nor is it relevant 'where' Israelis came from - because over 60% of total Israeli citizens are Arabs today.


----------



## Dante (Jul 20, 2014)

toastman said:


> Watching it live on CNN now. No link yet


----------



## toastman (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Sure he has. You just refuse to accept it, because of your immaturity. In fact, just about all of your claims concerning Israel and Palestine are false.
You can't just make up crap like 'all of Israel is occupied'.
Sovereign states are not occupied. Even the PA recognizes Israel proper.

And again, the 'Israel never acquired the land' is something you made up. That is your pre requisite to becoming a state. 
Unless you have a vid link that says Israel needed to have acquired the land to declare independence.....


----------



## toastman (Jul 21, 2014)

BTW, that women saying Israel has no right to exist is a loon. What she forgot to mention is that 'Palestine' used resolution 181 to declare independence in 1988 as well 

Also, both Rocco and have, on many occasions posted links that resolution 181 was used cor both DOI. But you ignore those links because they dismantle your lies.


----------



## RoccoR (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

This is the same argument, that the Arab Palestinian has been mustering for more than half a century.  It is, as Ms Lamis Deek and our friend PF Tinmore, does Israel have the right to exist?

Both Ms Deek and PF Tinmore, claim that Israel "does not have" the &#8220;right to exist as a Jewish state."  Well, in a sense, this is a larger question as to the criteria under which any nation has the right to exist.



P F Tinmore said:


> She is saying the same thing that I have been saying for years.


*(COMMENT)*

The question is a "moot point" _(an impractical discussion or irrelevant to the reality)_; Israel does exist as a Jewish State.  The Arab Palestinian has never had an exclusive right to the regional area called Palestine, or an exclusive right to self-determination.  Whatever right the Arab Palestinian can claim to have, is mirrored in the rights held by the Israeli in their history of independence and self-rule in the territory now commonly described as Israel; holding a very distinct culture, and having demonstrated the will and capability to establish, defend and maintain governance.  Either all peoples have the right to self-determination, including the Israeli, or the "right" is illusionary.  If the "right of self-determination" has a boundary, it is that it is a "right" held by the people and not a governing body.  And the Jewish People of Israel (the Israeli), has made a determination - for all to see. 

The "right to existence" is the inverse function of the hard law pertaining to the prohibition on "Genocide" _(Article 6, Rome Statutes, International Criminal Court, meaning applied to the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group)_.  The Arab Palestinian can claim not right to existence that does not equally apply to the Israeli.

The matter of General Assembly Resolution 181(II), is equally a "moot point" in that the argument is based on the assumption that the Resolution was not recognized by the UN Security Council.  However, it should be noted that the UN Security Council did recommend to the General Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the United Nations (S/RES/69 (1949) S/1277 4 March 1949), after the Security Council received and considered the application of Israel (S/1093 29 November 1948) which was made pursuant to Part I Section F, of General Assembly Resolution 181(II) of November 29, 1947 _(" the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration")_.

On the matter of the legitimacy of General Assembly Resolution 181(II) of November 29, 1947; it was recognized by the Arab Palestinian via its use by the sole representative of the Palestinian People in their Declaration of Independence of 1988 _("on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947")_, acknowledged again by the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations (A/53/879  S/1999/334  25 March 1999)_("forge a peace on the basis of coexistence, resolution 181 (II) has become acceptable")_, and is used as a principle reference _("Recalling its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947")_ in the Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 67/19 (A/RES/67/19  4 December 2012) Status of Palestine in the United Nations wherein the UN accorded to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations.  The international recognition of the Resolution has been there all along, and is still used today.  It is recognized the hard lined Islamic Resistance Extremist _(both Jihadist and Fedayeen)_ simply refuse to recognize the legitimacy; but, that is the very nature of extremist.

The rights of self-determination cannot exist for the Arab Palestinian without applying equally to the Israeli.  Either they both have the "right" or neither has the "right."  It matters not, it is a poor argument.  The Jewish State of Israel does exist (today) as a successful, thriving and prosperous - self-governing concern.  The State of Palestine, exits (today) --- largely as a failed state.

Today, there are two-states, a successfully Jewish State and a failed Arab State.   Forget what Ms Deek has to say; she is nothing more than a virtual victim that is lost on the path to peace resolution.  Either the Arab Palestinian wants to turn the situation around and become a successful, thriving and prosperous - self-governing concern --- OR --- they want to continue on the path of a failed state.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 21, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> *This is the same argument, that the Arab Palestinian has been mustering for more than half a century.*  It is, as Ms Lamis Deek and our friend PF Tinmore, does Israel have the right to exist?
> 
> Both Ms Deek and PF Tinmore, claim that Israel "does not have" the right to exist as a Jewish state."  Well, in a sense, this is a larger question as to the criteria under which any nation has the right to exist.



Probably because it is true.

A state, or government if you will, has no rights. It is the people who have rights. A government constituted by the will of the people is merely an extension of the rights of the people.

Palestine is a nation of people inside a territory defined by international borders. Palestine is their country. As a nation of people inside a defined territory they have the right to:
Self determination without external interference.​Independence and sovereignty.​Territorial integrity.​The Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, have the right to establish a government and declare a state inside their international borders without external interference.

Israel is an alien domination of Palestine. Israel was declared by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich be the foreign World Zionist Organization. Its intended population was foreign settlers who were imported by the Zionists to populate the planned Jewish state.

Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants. Israel was created with the virtual unanimous opposition of the native population and has never had the support of the majority of people.

Outside the UN during the statehood vote.

You gotta love Palestinian women.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2nWVM_Ehbo]Lamis Deek Incites Intifada at the Palestinian "statehood" Protest - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 21, 2014)

Oh, Gawd, more pro-pali bellyaching. Delish.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 21, 2014)

Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.

Mohammed Omer &#63743;*@Mogaza

#Israel tankshell hit ICU at Aqsa hospital, 5 killed so far and 16 injured. hospital is under shelling now, central #Gaza

22 minutes ago

Gaza / Current.ly


----------



## irosie91 (Jul 21, 2014)

So???


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 21, 2014)

Indeed. G-d forbid Israel should have to defend itself.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Jul 21, 2014)

amity1844 said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...






"....do we know by whom?  Why would we assume it was Hamas?"

The Amish?


----------



## irosie91 (Jul 21, 2014)

PoliticalChic said:


> amity1844 said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 21, 2014)

Boy, oh boy, how people have forgotten was for murderous criminals Hamas adherents are.








They took over Gaza in 2006/2007 and the first order of business was to throw Fatah adherents from tall buildings to their deaths:

LiveLeak.com - Hamas throwing Fatah member off roof in Gaza

So, for all the Pali lovers out there, if they are willing to admit that "Palestinians" in Gaza are being oppressed by Hamas, then I can buy their argument that somehow, Israel is attacking civilians.

If not, then it's all bullshit.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 21, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Boy, oh boy, how people have forgotten was for murderous criminals Hamas adherents are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if a person is under 14, as 40% of Gaza is, do you think they view Hamas or Israel's actions as the bad guys?

Hamas hasn't killed their family or blown up their house. Hamas hasn't left them maimed and without a hospital. Hamas is fighting against those that have.

so you need to ask yourself - is israel really doing the right thing by causing so much death and destruction?


----------



## Kondor3 (Jul 21, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.
> 
> Mohammed Omer &#63743;*@Mogaza
> 
> ...


Why did that Israeli tank fire at the hospital?

Was Hamas firing on IDF forces from within the hospital complex?

Does Hamas use the hospital or its basement-bunker for a command post?

When you emplace war-assets into such a building, it loses its immunity from hostile fire.

Rightfully so.

Hamas does that kind of shit all the time.

If Hamas WAS conducting operations from that locale...

Did the IDF tank crew run-up a decent score of dead Hamas scumbags?

Should we send the IDF tank crew some gift certificates for free steak dinners or something?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 21, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.
> ...



does it matter. it's a tank shooting a fucking hospital.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> _*does it matter*. it's a tank shooting a fucking hospital._


Yes. It matters a *LOT*, if troops are housed within, and _especially_ if they are conducting operations from within, and _most_ especially if they are actually _firing_ from within.

========================================

_From the website of the International Committee of the Red Cross..._

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Commentary - Art. 19. Part II : General protection of populations against certain consequences of war

[p.154] ARTICLE 19 [ Link ] . -- DISCONTINUANCE OF PROTECTION OF HOSPITALS


PARAGRAPH 1. -- CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH
PROTECTION IS DISCONTINUED

1. ' Basic condition -- Acts harmful to the enemy '

The immunity bestowed on civilian hospitals cannot be taken away unless they are used to commit acts harmful to the enemy. The wording adopted by the Diplomatic Conference was intended to draw attention to the exceptional character of the provision and to make it clear that protection could only be discontinued in this one case.

Despite the efforts of the 1949 Conference (1), it was not found possible to produce a more concrete definition of the notion "acts harmful to the enemy" (in the French version: actes nuisibles à l'ennemi), which had already been used in the 1929 version of the First Geneva Convention. The idea was made clearer, however, by the insertion of the phrase "outside their humanitarian duties".

Such harmful acts would, for example, include the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a centre for liaison with fighting troops.

...

========================================

Under such circumstances, the hospital loses its immunity from attack.

We do not yet know (methinks) whether (a) the IDF actually fired at the hospital in question or (b) whether Hamas violated the Geneva Convention by staging operations, etc., from those premises, to throw away the shield of immunity.

But, given Hamas' frequent (_and very well documented_) history of doing just that, in connection with hospitals, schools, mosques, etc., it seems very likely that we will soon learn that Hamas had thrown away that shield of immunity by doing such things yet again.

Questions?


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 21, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > _*does it matter*. it's a tank shooting a fucking hospital._
> ...



oh, you thought i meant does it matter as in does it matter if israel has some sort of legal right to do it.

 frankly, i don't care about that.

the optics of a tank shelling a hospital are what matters - and if there were soldiers or weapons inside why weren't troops sent in to collect them instead of shelling the whole damn building from a tank?


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## Indeependent (Jul 21, 2014)

Sorry ogi,
Even most Hitler youth got over the propaganda once the war was over.


----------



## ogibillm (Jul 21, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Sorry ogi,
> Even most Hitler youth got over the propaganda once the war was over.



when the propaganda is that you try to avoid civilian casualties and then you have a tank shelling a hospital i think we can guess which propaganda can and will be dismissed.


----------



## Hossfly (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


Tinmore, I would be less confused if you would display a map of what you think Palestine and Israel looks like.


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry ogi,
> ...



How many militaries bomb a few thousand buildings and kill less than 300 people?
Don't avoid the question.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> _oh, you thought i meant does it matter as in does it matter if israel has some sort of legal right to do it.  frankly, i don't care about that. the optics of a tank shelling a hospital are what matters - and if there were soldiers or weapons inside why weren't troops sent in to collect them instead of shelling the whole damn building from a tank?_


Why risk your own people when a 120mm shell will do the trick? Eventually, these Hamas Neanderthals will get the message and stop doing it. Meanwhile, innocents pay for Hamas criminality and cowardice.


----------



## RoccoR (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The right of self-determination belongs to "ALL People;" without regard to their point of origin.  It is not a unique right to the Palestinians.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*

Relative to your insistent claim that the Arab Palestinians have some "international borders."  I assume you are talking about the recognition by the UN of the "sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967" as stipulated in the UN Acknowledgement to the proclamation of the State of Palestine (A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988).  That is the recognized borders of "Palestine" after 1988.

If you are referring to something different, I would like a little more of a reference so I may address it directly.

*(COMMENT)*

The Palestinians have exercised their "right of self-determination" twice.  Once when they approved the annexation of the West Bank as part of Jordan (1950); which they later lost due to their violent nature and attempts to assassinate the King.  And once in 1988 when they declared the State of Palestine; which been a failed state since that time.

BUT, the Palestinians do not have any unique right to the entire landscape of the territory formerly under Mandate.  That is simply wrong.  The Arab Palestinian had no sovereign control over the territory prior to the Ottoman Empire, during the Ottoman Empire, or after the Ottoman Empire.  Nothing until 1988.

*(SIDEBAR)*

Related to your insert of the _Youtube Video_ of "Lamis Deek Incites Intifada at the Palestinian "statehood" Protest," and comment that "You gotta love Palestinian women;" it should be remembered that:



			
				Security Council Resolution 1373 (2001) Adopted by the Security Council at its 4385th meeting said:
			
		

> Declares that acts, methods, and practices of terrorism are contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations and that knowingly financing, planning and *inciting* terrorist acts are also contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations;
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ S/RES/1373 (2001)



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## PoliticalChic (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry ogi,
> ...






Did you mention propaganda?


"*Ambulances are still stopped and searched at Israeli checkpoints because they have frequently been used as a means to transport terrorist bombs, and many of the murderers who have triggered suicide bombings in Israel gained access by driving or riding in Red Crescent ambulances. For example:*

In October 2001, Nidal Nazal, a Hamas operative in Kalkilya, was arrested by the IDF. He was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent who served as a messenger between the Hamas headquarters in several West Bank towns. 53

In January 2002, Wafa Idris blew herself up on the crowded Jaffa Street in Jerusalem, becoming one of the first female suicide bombers. She was an ambulance driver for the Palestinian Red Crescent, as was Mohammed Hababa, the Tanzim operative who sent her on her mission. She left the West Bank by way of an ambulance. 54

On March 27, 2002, a Tanzim member who worked as a Red Crescent ambulance driver was captured with explosives in his ambulance. A child disguised as a patient was riding in the ambulance along with the childs family. The explosives were found under the stretcher the sick child was laying on. 55

On May 17, 2002, an explosive belt was found in a Red Crescent ambulance at a checkpoint near Ramallah. The bomb, the same type generally use in suicide bombings, was hidden under a gurney on which a sick child was lying. The driver, Islam Jibril, was already wanted by the IDF, and admitted that this was not the first time that an ambulance had been used to transport explosives or terrorists. In a statement issued the same day, the International Committee of the Red Cross said that it understands the security concerns of the Israeli authorities, and has always acknowledged their right to check ambulances, provided it does not unduly delay medical evacuations. The sick passengers in the ambulance were escorted by soldiers to a nearby hospital. 56

On June 30, 2002, Israeli troops found 10 suspected Palestinian terrorists hiding in two ambulances in Ramallah. They were caught when soldiers stopped the vehicles for routine checks. 57

In December 2003, Rashed Tarek al-Nimr, who worked as a chemist in hospitals in Nablus and Bethlehem, supplied chemicals from the hospitals to Hamas for use in making bombs and admitted he used ambulances to transport the chemicals. He also said the Hamas commanders would hide in hospitals to avoid arrest. 58

In December 2004, a Hamas agent with forged documents claiming that he was a cancer patient in need of medical treatment from an Israeli hospital was arrested by security forces. Hamed A-Karim Hamed Abu Lihiya was to meet up with another terrorist, obtain weapons from allies inside Israel, and carry out an attack. That same month, a man recruited by the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade to plant a bomb on the railway tracks near Netanya tried to use false papers indicating he needed hospital treatment to enter Israel. Another Hamas terrorist planning a suicide bombing was arrested in March 2005 after pretending to be a kidney donor. 59"
Myths & Facts: Human Rights (Chapter 18) | Jewish Virtual Library




For purposes of clarity....are you pretending to be stupid, or actually so?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jul 21, 2014)

Fire from civilian establishments makes them military targets.


----------



## TemplarKormac (Jul 21, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Moreover, how many militaries use human shields? Why are people ignoring the utter barbarity being employed by Hamas? Oh, because Israel must be faulted in any and all instability in the region. Lose Lose situation if they act in defense of their country and citizens. There are people here in this thread too utterly stupid to see reality.


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 21, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



More and more Israelis, both Jews and non-Jews are objecting to giving warnings; they want the animals exterminated.
The entire Muslim world is at war with itself and they try to distract from that by blaming the JOOS.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 21, 2014)

Oh, please. And the fact that 40% of the population is that young is supposed to be an excuse? Really?

Wow.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 21, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> 
> *(SIDEBAR)*
> ...



It is illegal to "incite" liberation?

Where does it say that?


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jul 21, 2014)

Oh, you want to liberate the palis from Hamas???

Good man, good man.

All we need to do is to KILL all of Hamas!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 21, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> The right of self-determination belongs to "ALL People;" without regard to their point of origin.  It is not a unique right to the Palestinians.
> 
> ...



That is true. All people have the right to self determination *inside their own territorial borders.*


----------



## irosie91 (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



THRUOUT history----conflict between people AND THEIR respective rights has led to border shifts---
in fact  INCESSANTLY  and  EXTENSIVELY.     Based on the present  (and past)  genocide of 
some Christian populations in Africa and Asia-----I would advocate border shifts and redefinitions 
to save those populations and render justice and RIGHTS for all people thru the creation of 
Christian majority countries for them       See???    easy.
Pakistan was CREATED DE NOVO      from   HINDU INDIAN LAND    because some muslims ---found 
their rights under threat in the face of  HINDU MAJORITY   ----in  1948

I have no idea in what country my great grandparents were born-------it was some very large area of 
land called the  AUSTRIAN HAPSBURG EMPIRE---------do you know the borders of that country?  
Would I be entitled to citizenship therein?      I always wanted to be  a   HAPBURGIAN-----I think 
wolfberg Amadeus motzart-----might have been a  HAPBURGIAN----or maybe he was german???


----------



## toastman (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



Just like Israel's internationally recognized borders. Something Palestine does not have.


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...






So in effect you are saying that the Jews who have lived in Palestine for 4,500 years have no rights at all. No rights to

Self determination without external interference.​Independence and sovereignty.​Territorial integrity.​ 
Rather an anti-Semitic and racist comment by you tinny as the Jews have lived on that land for far longer than any arab muslim has. The Diaspora Jews were invited back by the Ottoman owners of Palestine because there were no arab muslims prepared to do the work. Then after WW1 the new owners of the land the LoN also invited the diaspora Jews to migrate and settle Palestine. These two migrations resulted in the Jews owning 7% of the land prior to the end of the mandate, while the arab muslims owned much less than 1% of the land beaten by the Christians that owned 1%. So how did the arab muslims become the only ones to be given the right to declare a state when they were in the minority .


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 21, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.
> 
> Mohammed Omer &#63743;*@Mogaza
> 
> ...






 AND! if hamas use it as a military base then it becomes a military target. Read the Geneva conventions for the evidence


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Boy, oh boy, how people have forgotten was for murderous criminals Hamas adherents are.
> ...






 Can you prove that hamas has not killed their families, blown up their houses, left them maimed and without a hospital. Because I can show that hamas has done all these things since coming to power in gaza, and worse. Remember the wedding that was halted by hamas and the guests murdered because they were dancing to music ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 21, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.
> ...






 Smoked salmon and champagne would be better, followed by Cuban cigars and 5 star brandy


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 21, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



I have never said that. You haven't been following my posts.


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...






 Well if you need to ask that question then you are blinded by your hatred of the Jews. The Geneva conventions, which the Palestinians have just signed up to, deals with this in detail and spells it out so even morons can understand it.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> ..._is israel really doing the right thing by causing so much death and destruction?_


If you are fighting a '_them or us_' kind of war, against an enemy who will not make peace, and who will not stop shooting...

In which you either destroy the enemy's war-making ability, or risk losing more of your own...

And if, in the process, you are going to end-up inadvertently killing a fair number of enemy civilians, in order to get at the enemy war-making ability...

You are, in truth, making a hard but logical choice, in valuing the life of your own people, over the lives of the enemy...

Something that mankind has done (_on a small scale, a middling scale, and a large scale_) since time immemorial...

Israel chooses life for its own people, at the expense of the enemy...

Not exactly a difficult concept to grasp...

The Israelis have gone into Gaza to gut the enemy's fighters and the enemy's war-making capability...

The Israelis, following long-standing common practice for their operations, have even gone so far as to warn civilians well in advance of their strikes...

It's understandable that some few (the handicapped, etc.) might not be able to evacuate, given 1-2 days advance notice...

But there is no excuse for so many civilians remaining behind, so long after being warned that the shooting was going to begin...

Unless, of course, those slimy Hamas bastards are holding civilians in-place at gunpoint...

In which case, Masters and Serfs end-up dying together...


----------



## Kondor3 (Jul 21, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...


Let's not go nuts with the rewards... there are gonna be a _lot_ of dead Hamas slimebags before this is done... then again, on second thought, maybe it _would_ be worthwhile...


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...





Logistics of the situation a tank can cause more damage to the military potential by reducing the ability to use it again. They could have used bombs from a plane instead and destroyed the hospital all together. Why put soldiers lives at risk when you don't have to ?


----------



## Phoenall (Jul 21, 2014)

ogibillm said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry ogi,
> ...





 They will have been given fair warning of the attack so the blame lies with hamas once again. Read the Geneva conventions.


----------



## RoccoR (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The Security Council edict is just a variation of the Charter Article 33 in Chapter VI, Pacific Settlements of Disputes, as amplified by Rule of Law in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.  The territory Occupied since 1967 is not a matter for nor does it require liberation.  It is a state that openly supports terrorism _(Jihadist and Fedayeen that claim "Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad")_; a state that requires containment, quarantine and control.  It is a state that refuses to participate in good faith negotiations for peace and poses a threat to Israel and the region by organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadist and Fedayeen activities and terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens. 



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Ms Deek is inciting --- NOT Liberation --- but, "Intifada" (_uprising or conflict_).  

To liberate "Palestine" is to suggest that the Arab Palestinian has some sort of valid "sovereign claim" of some defined territory.  Without the General Assembly  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly Resolution 67/19 - Status of Palestine in the United Nations - which reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the *Palestinian territory occupied since 1967*, there is nothing to point to that actually stipulates any Palestinian claim of actually demonstrates Arab Palestinian control.  It can be argued that the Arab Palestinian, expect for Gaza and the Area "A" of the West Bank, has not firmly establish "control."  Be that as it may, the reality is that the "territory occupied since 1967" is considered "the State of Palestine."  

At the end of the day, War of Liberation or NOT, Ms Deek is attempting to incite a disturbance and violence in order to settle a territorial dispute by force.  This would be totally inconsistent with the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations was adopted by the General Assembly on 24 October 1970 [Resolution 26/25 (XXV)], "considering it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter," and "Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States."

*(BOTTOM LINE)*

The use of conflict by the Arab Palestinian to settle their perception of the dispute, is totally incompatible and inconsistent with customary interpretations of international principles.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## billdad19912114 (Jul 21, 2014)

Them people have no business telling our country what's going on outside we do t want to hear that in my private home amongst my family get lost mr.government and great company don't ever exist again. I will hunt your family for an eternity.


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## aris2chat (Jul 21, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Hospital spokesman said they had several days of calls to remove the patients.  There were only 17 patients still in the hospital and most of the staff had been sent home.
Some reports say four, others say six, were killed and they were the fighters operating the M75 rockets that were fired from the hospital.
A window that extends the top three floors of one building of the complex was damaged.   Most of the complex looks untouched.


----------



## irosie91 (Jul 21, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > ogibillm said:
> ...



your report makes no sense,   aris-----sherri has informed us  that  2 patients ---were 
undergoing surgery   ----and IN THE OPERATING ROOMS-----when bombs hit the 
OPERATING ROOMS on the third floor------and killed the 2 patients-----she did not 
tell us what happened to the   surgeons or the anesthesiologist or the 
scrub nurses      I do not believe that a hospital with only  17 patients would have 
TWO in surgery at the same time....  especially since most of the staff was gone---
that would be insane.    Surgeon are touchy people-----and ANESTHESIOLOGISTS 
are worse--------they would not allow rockets being shot from the hospital-----
the action might ignite the flammable gases used in the Operating room----
at which point EVERYONE blows up


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## aris2chat (Jul 21, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



A tank fired on Al-aqsa hospital killing four and injuring a number of people.

al-Wafa was a rehabilitation hospital that had mostly been evacuated.


----------



## irosie91 (Jul 21, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...




that report seems reasonable-----especially since there were  rocket shooters mounted 
somewhere on the hospital------but what about the  TWO ON THE OPERATING 
TABLE       how could that possibly be?      Oh---there is more----there were ANTI TANK 
rocket things  mounted right beside the hospital


----------



## eagle1462010 (Jul 21, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Right now in Israel's ground operation, Israel is shelling a hospital from a tank.
> ...



Your damn skippy.  I'd pitch in on that one...........

Hamas has done this BS in the past, and then cry when the IDF fires on the Hospital.  It's a dang tactic to cause Civilian Deaths.............

They are Scum............


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 21, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...




Yepp.


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## Kondor3 (Jul 21, 2014)

*Hamas's Civilian Death Strategy*

*Gazans shelter terrorists and their weapons in their homes, right beside sofas and dirty diapers.
*
_By THANE ROSENBAUM - July 21, 2014 3:19 p.m. ET
_
Let's state the obvious: No one likes to see dead children. Well, that's not completely true: Hamas does. They would prefer those children to be Jewish, but there is greater value to them if they are Palestinian. Outmatched by Israel's military, handicapped by rocket launchers with the steady hands of Barney Fife, Hamas is playing the long game of moral revulsion.

With this conflict about to enter its third week, winning the PR war is the best Hamas can hope to achieve. Their weapon of choice, however, seems to be the cannon fodder of their own people, performing double duty in also sounding the drumbeat of Israeli condemnation. If you can't beat Iron Dome, then deploy sacrificial children as human shields.

Civilian casualties will continue to mount. The evolving story will focus on the collateral damage of Palestinian lives. Israel's moral dilemma will receive little attention. Each time the ledgers of relative loss are reported, world public opinion will turn against the Jewish state and box Israel into an even tighter corner of the Middle East.

All the ordinary rules of warfare are upended in Gaza. Everything about this conflict is asymmetricalHamas wears no uniforms and they don't meet Israeli soldiers on battlefields. With the exception of kaffiyeh scarves, it isn't possible to distinguish a Hamas militant from a noncombatant pharmacist. In Vietnam, the U.S. military learned guerrilla warfare in jungles. In Gaza, the Jewish state has had to adapt to the altogether surreal terrain of apartment complexes and schoolhouses.

There are now reports that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are transporting themselves throughout Gaza in ambulances packed with children. Believe it or not, a donkey laden with explosives detonated just the other day.

...

The people of Gaza overwhelmingly elected Hamas, a terrorist outfit dedicated to the destruction of Israel, as their designated representatives. Almost instantly Hamas began stockpiling weapons and using them against a more powerful foe with a solid track record of retaliation.

What did Gazans think was going to happen? Surely they must have understood on election night that their lives would now be suspended in a state of utter chaos. Life expectancy would be miserably low; children would be without a future. Staying alive would be a challenge, if staying alive even mattered anymore.

To make matters worse, Gazans sheltered terrorists and their weapons in their homes, right beside ottoman sofas and dirty diapers. When Israel warned them of impending attacks, the inhabitants defiantly refused to leave.

...

It also calls your parenting skills into serious question. In the U.S. if a parent is found to have locked his or her child in a parked car on a summer day with the windows closed, a social worker takes the children away from the demonstrably unfit parent. In Gaza, parents who place their children in the direct line of fire are rewarded with an interview on MSNBC where they can call Israel a genocidal murderer.

Surely there are civilians who have been killed in this conflict who have taken every step to distance themselves from this fast-moving war zone, and children whose parents are not card-carrying Hamas loyalists. These are the true innocents of Gaza. It is they for whom our sympathy should be reserved. The impossibility of identifying them, and saving them, is Israel's deepest moral dilemma..

==========

_Mr. Rosenbaum, a novelist, essayist and professor at the New York University School of Law, is the author, most recently, of "Payback: The Case for Revenge."_

Thane Rosenbaum: Hamas's Civilian Death Strategy - WSJ


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 21, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> The right of self-determination belongs to "ALL People;" without regard to their point of origin.  It is not a unique right to the Palestinians.
> 
> ...



I was. I mean the international borders that Palestine has had since 1922.


----------



## RoccoR (Jul 21, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

The only borders established in 1922, relative to the region under discussion, were those established for the Mandate of Palestine.  They were not permanent international borders.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The borders were established by the application of the Provisions of Article 22 (LoN Covenant), for the administration of the territory under the Mandate of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers.  There was no country or nation established by these boundaries.  The term "Palestine" was a short title used to describe the "Mandate of Palestine;" as stipulated by the Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> The only borders established in 1922, relative to the region under discussion, were those established for the Mandate of Palestine.  They were not permanent international borders.
> 
> ...



The Mandate of Palestine had no territory or borders of its own. It was temporarily assigned to Palestine to render administrative assistance and advice and held Palestine in trust until the people could stand alone.

Palestine and its international borders continued to exist after the mandate left Palestine.


----------



## RoccoR (Jul 22, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You are misinterpreting boundaries.  All the countries surrounding the territorial Mandate of Palestine, by 1946, had international boundaries.  Not Palestine.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The UN and the Mandatory made a joint announcement as to the status that Palestine would have relative to the end of the Mandate.



			
				The Government of the United Kingdom said:
			
		

> Pertinent excerpts from the memorandum are as follows:
> 
> *UK MEMORANDUM NAMES COMMISSION AS SUCCESSOR GOVERNMENT*​
> "Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.
> ...



When the Mandate ended, the Successor Government was the United Nations Palestine Commission (UNPC), not an orphan Palestine.  The Territory went under trusteeship with the UN.  The international boundaries around Palestine represented the limits to the sovereignty of the surrounding nations (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt); not the State, nation or country of Palestine.  

Palestine (the territory formerly under Mandate) and its international borders continued to exist after the (mandatory) left Palestine; and was handed over to the UNPC for Governance.  

On 15 MAY, the Jewish Agency declared independence on the hour the Mandate ended (midnight of 14/15 MAY)(S/747 16 May 1948).  



			
				CABLEGRAM DATED 15 MAY 1948 ADDRESSED TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL BY FOREIGN SECRETARY OF THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL said:
			
		

> HAVE HONOUR INFORM YOU THAT NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR JEWISH STATE CONSISTING OF MEMBERS OF ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE JEWISH BODIES PALESTINE WHICH HAD *APPLIED TO UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION FOR RECOGNITION AS PROVISIONAL COUNCIL GOVERNMENT UNDER PART ONE B FOUR OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON NOVEMBER 29TH 1947* MET YESTERDAY MAY 14TH AND ISSUED PROCLAMATION DECLARING FOLLOWING ON NOVEMBER 29 1947 GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF UNITED NATIONS *ADOPTED RESOLUTION FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE IN PALESTINE* AND CALLED UPON INHABITANTS OF COUNTRY TO TAKE SUCH STEPS AS MAY BE NECESSARY ON THEIR PART TO PUT THE PLAN INTO EFFECT. THIS RECOGNITION BY UNITED NATIONS OF RIGHT OF JEWISH PEOPLE TO ESTABLISH THEIR INDEPENDENT STATE MAY NOT BE REVOKED. IT IS MOREOVER SELF-EVIDENT RIGHT OF JEWISH PEOPLE TO BE A NATION AS ALL OTHER NATIONS IN ITS OWN SOVEREIGN STATE. ACCORDINGLY WE MEMBERS OF NATIONAL COUNCIL REPRESENTING JEWISH PEOPLE IN PALESTINE AND ZIONIST MOVEMENT; MET TOGETHER IN SOLEMN ASSEMBLY TODAY, DAY OF TERMINATION OF BRITISH MANDATE FOR PALESTINE, BY VIRTUE OF NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT OF JEWISH PEOPLE AND OF RESOLUTION OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY HEREBY PROCLAIM ESTABLISHMENT OF JEWISH STATE IN PALESTINE TO BE CALLED ISRAEL. WE HEREBY DECLARE THAT AS FROM TERMINATION OF MANDATE THIS NIGHT OF 14TH TO 15TH MAY 1948 AND UNTIL SETTING UP OF DULY ELECTED BODIES OF STATE IN ACCORDANCE WITH CONSTITUTION TO BE DRAWN UP BY CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY NOT LATER THAN 1ST OCTOBER 1948 PRESENT NATIONAL COUNCIL SHALL ACT AS PROVISIONAL STATE COUNCIL AND ITS EXECUTIVE ORGAN SHALL CONSTITUTE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL. STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE OPEN TO IMMIGRATION OF JEWS FROM ALL COUNTRIES OF DISPERSION WILL PROMOTE DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTRY FOR BENEFIT OF ALL INHABITANTS WILL BE BASED ON PRECEPTS OF LIBERTY JUSTICE AND PEACE WILL UPHOLD FULL SOCIAL AND POLITICAL EQUALITY OF ALL CITIZENS WITHOUT DISTINCTION RACE CREED OR SEX WILL GUARANTEE FULL FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE WORSHIP EDUCATION CULTURE AND LANGUAGE WILL SAFEGUARD SANCTITY AND INVIOLABILITY OF SHRINES AND HOLY PLACES OF ALL RELIGIONS AND WILL DEDICATE ITSELF TO PRINCIPLES OF UNITED NATIONS CHARTER. STATE OF ISRAEL WILL BE READY COOPERATE WITH ORGANS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF UNITED NATIONS IN IMPLEMENTATION OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY OF NOVEMBER 29 1947 AND WILL TAKE STEPS TO BRING ABOUT ECONOMIC UNION OVER WHOLE OF PALESTINE. WE APPEAL TO UNITED NATIONS TO ASSIST JEWISH PEOPLE IN BUILDING OF ITS STATE AND TO ADMIT ISRAEL INTO FAMILY OF NATIONS. *ACCORDINGLY I BEG DECLARE ON BEHALF OF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL ITS READINESS TO SIGN DECLARATION AND UNDERTAKING PROVIDED FOR RESPECTIVELY IN PART ONE C AND PART ONE D OF RESOLUTION OF ASSEMBLY AND BEG HEREBY TO APPLY FOR ADMISSION OF STATE OF ISRAEL TO MEMBERSHIP OF UNITED NATIONS.*
> 
> BEHALF PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL MOSHE SHERTOK FOREIGN SECRETARY
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_  (S/747 16 May 1948)



On the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, the Arab Armies invaded the territory.  "The General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission of its responsibilities and decided to appoint a mediator charged with promoting a peaceful settlement in cooperation with the Truce Commission. On 20 May, Count Folke Bernadotte, President of the Swedish Red Cross, was chosen as United Nations Mediator."  During the period "between February and July 1949, under United Nations auspices, armistice agreements were signed between Israel, on the one hand, and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria on the other."  The Arab Armies had failed to prevent the establishment of the Jewish State and in the process of attempting to subvert the implementation of Resolution 181(II), Israel had gained control of additional territory not originally allocated to them.  Thus the lines in place today, as amended by Peace Treaties with Egypt and Jordan. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> You are misinterpreting boundaries. All the countries surrounding the territorial Mandate of Palestine, by 1946, had international boundaries. Not Palestine.



Do you have some documentation to confirm that allegation?


----------



## Indeependent (Jul 22, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can have documentation stuck up your anal canal, and if it disagrees with you, you're STILL gonna conjure up some bullshit sound-bite to swat it away.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> During the period "between February and July 1949, under United Nations auspices, armistice agreements were signed between Israel, on the one hand, and Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria on the other.
> 
> Israel had gained control of additional territory not originally allocated to them.



What is the correlation between these two statements?

How do they relate to each other?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> It is a state that refuses to participate in good faith negotiations for peace...



Since when are a people required to negotiate their inalienable rights?

Got a link?


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## RoccoR (Jul 22, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Let see!



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

They correlate to an end result.







P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Arab Palestinian does not have an "inalienable right" to Israel or the sovereignty thereof; they have a territorial dispute.



			
				EXCERPTS:  Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 2625 (XXV). Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations said:
			
		

> Considering it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter,
> 
> The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,
> 
> ...



Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2014)

RoccoR said:
			
		

> The Arab Palestinian does not have an "inalienable right" to Israel or the sovereignty thereof; they have a territorial dispute.



Israel sits on Palestine land inside Palestine's international borders.

Where is the dispute?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 22, 2014)

> ...refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State...



Have the Palestinians ever crossed an Israeli international boundary?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 23, 2014)

I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations. 

Many reports of gases being used on civilians.


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## toastman (Jul 23, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## toastman (Jul 23, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where did Rocco say that? Why do you always ask such stupid and irrelevant questions.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Best thing for you is to shutup and listen to people like Rocco who know what they are talking about.


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## toastman (Jul 23, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations.
> 
> Many reports of gases being used on civilians.



And who is reporting this lie?


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## Daniyel (Jul 23, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations.
> 
> Many reports of gases being used on civilians.


Since all the innocents die for Allah and the Jihad are Sha'hids - The Hamas promised him 72 virgins, go figure. 
 [MENTION=37610]SherriMunnerlyn[/MENTION]


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > I read a baby just died from inhalation of gases in a shelling in Rafah in Israel's ground operations.
> ...



The people being gased report it, noone would know better then them.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 23, 2014)

One shroud is much smaller than all the others. It is of the youngest victim, Njoud, just 9 months old. The doctor picks her up with one hand. She is wearing a diaper and a Minnie Mouse T-shirt with a pink bow.

Standing outside the door of the morgue is Riyad Abu Saleh, 45. He is waiting to receive the body of his eldest daughter, Fatma, 24. Her husband, Yasser Abu Jamaa, and their three young children, ages 6, 4, and 2, were killed with her. Fatma was cut in two by the airstrike. Only half of her body is at the European Hospital morgue. Abu Saleh must go to the Nasser Hospital to collect the other half.

"We pulled her out of the rubble in pieces," Abu Saleh says.

"We pulled her out of the rubble in pieces," Abu Saleh says.*"We want the Israelis to leave; we want the border crossings open; we want a life of dignity without all this killing. We are under siege, and death is being brought upon us."

The attack on the Abu Jamaa family's house was one of the deadliest strikes since the beginning of Israel's assault on Gaza... 


'They Killed 25 to Get One'


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 23, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Let see!
> 
> ...



You misunderstood the question.

How did Israel gain control of Palestinian land in a war with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt?


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 23, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


That's the point, it wasnt Palestinian land.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 23, 2014)

Daniyel said:


> That's the point, it wasnt Palestinian land.


That's not the point.  The point is you cannot acquire land by force.  That has been outlawed ever since the end of WWII.  

And "that land" you are referring to, was never part of the mandate given to the Zionists.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 23, 2014)

toastman said:


> And who is reporting this lie?


Uh oh, *Toasty* hears "gas" and immediately jumps out of bed screaming, _*"Spin doctors, wake up! There's work to do!"*_


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jul 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > That's the point, it wasnt Palestinian land.
> ...



Actually there was no land given to the Zionists.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jul 23, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Actually there was no land given to the Zionists.


You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on that point.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 23, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Actually there was no land given to the Zionists.
> ...



I think your disagreement revolves around the proper way to view The UN Partition Plan, yes there was a vote on it in the UN but it was not fully implemented.  Do we view it as setting land borders for 2 states or not? If we look at developments in international law, ie the 2004 ICJ Opinion, we see the highest international court effectively recognizing that there is an Israeli State and there is land they occupy which Palestinians have sovereignty rights in. So, the inference is lands were given to the Zionists. I know it was not all done lawfully, but I do not know how we undo what has been done.


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## Daniyel (Jul 23, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Islamo Nazi pigs are expert at UNDOING     historically ---in the past 1800 years they have 
UNDONE   the lives of  100s of millions for the sake of the filth of their  "god"----isaallah.
They continue to  "indo"    in order to build a WORLD OF THIER OWN FILTH-----
      a cosmic sewer-------the  'caliphate of filth"      I wonder how many were raped today in honor 
      of  "isaallah" and how many mutilated in the obscene manner that delights the sluts 
      which worship it


----------



## Kondor3 (Jul 23, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The full range of your so-called 'inalienable rights', as you interpret them, never existed.

You were never a State... you never had the coherence nor strength nor competency to govern yourselves.

Others made decisions for you, like a parent making decisions for a legally incompetent child.

It might not be entirely legal, strictly speaking.

It might not be entirely fair.

But none of that matters in Real Life, on the macro level, in matters such as this.

The rest of the world (the part that counts, anyway) ratified or came to accept those decisions that were made for you over the course of time.

Your childish, petulant insistence upon a range of rights and ownership that never existed for you in the past, with no accommodation for the others now in your midst for the better part of a century, has cost the world - and especially the Ummah - far more blood and treasure and angst than your value to the rest of the world.

In short, you're just not worth the effort, and never have been.

It simply took the Arab world a few decades to figure that out, but they've pretty much had it with you by now, and much of the rest of the world has been in that metaphorical 'zone' for a long time now.

In the Real World, dealing with Grown Ups, when one is in an inferior position (with respect  to strength, influence, political power, etc.), one speaks softly, and negotiates the best possible outcome that one can, given the weak poker hand in front of them, then shuts the fuck up, and gets on with life, and hopes to broaden and expand and improve upon their position over the course of time, through dialogue and partnership.

In the sick, twisted, politically immature (downright childish) universe of the Palestinian Mentality, it's all 'me, me, me' - crippled by an inability to recognize, abide-by and operate from within the constraints of the Reality which God or the Fates or Pure Chance have thrust upon them, in order to extract the best possible yield from their circumstances.

This childish petulance and intransigence have cost the domain of Islam very heavily over the past several decades, and even the Ummah can slowly come to rhe realization that they're dealing with mad dogs who are simply not worth the pain and treasure and effort.

You have missed sooooo many chances over the years to cut a half-way decent deal.

Thirty or forty or fifty percent of your original demands is a damned-sight better than zero.

But that is what you are probably going to end-up with.

Zero.

You'll have nobody to blame but yourselves, for your stupidity.

Then again, it's not as if you'll be missed, by most of the rest of the world.


----------



## Daniyel (Jul 23, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn said:
> ...




the gas inhalation thing was  related to a malfunction of a machine in household-------
but it is ok------BLAME IT ON DA JOOOOOOOOS 

                      (the two year old told sherri ---- MAWT AL YAHUUUUUD)


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## RoccoR (Jul 23, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Around and around we go...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Israel sits on territory in which they exercised their "right to self-determination," in which they successfully defended their "right to self-determination" (several times), and on territory which was never govern by Palestinian; but was instead former territory of the Ottoman Empire and placed under Mandate.

And the boundaries were boundaries established by the Allied Powers for the purposes of the Allied Powers and have no connection to the Palestinian People.



P F Tinmore said:


> > ...refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State...
> 
> 
> 
> Have the Palestinians ever crossed an Israeli international boundary?


*(OBSERVATION)*

Hamas Fighters Infiltrate Israel Through Tunnel and Kill Two Soldiers
Raid Is Worst Blow to Israeli Military on Its Side of Border in Years; Gazan Death Toll Mounts​


			
				Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel said:
			
		

> Article II
> 
> *The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine*, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.
> 
> ...



*Special Note:*  Apparently the original map was at auction on 04/15/2006  Ira & Larry Goldberg Coins & Collectibles, Inc.  See link for details.​
*(COMMENT)*

Any questions?

Most Respectfully,
R


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

excuse me -----is it not about time that this thread title no longer contained the words  

           ~~~~~~###   BREAKING NEWS  ###~~~~~~~~ ?


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 23, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> excuse me -----is it not about time that this thread title no longer contained the words
> 
> ~~~~~~###   BREAKING NEWS  ###~~~~~~~~ ?







At the time, it was breaking news.

A little discernment could probably help your mental bowel movement, there.


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > excuse me -----is it not about time that this thread title no longer contained the words
> ...




I discern well  -----and do so unrelated to gastrointestinal functions.     The title still appears,  
PROMINENTLY  and since the thread is LONG----it appears daily at the TOP OF THE THREAD 
It no longer applies to the current situation


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 23, 2014)

irosie91 said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



Well, I got a secret for you:

You can go into advanced edit modus and change the title, but the html title stays as it was. So, with all respect, you are pissing in the wind here.

Deal with it.


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...



I will try to cope........  it is a trivial matter


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## fanger (Jul 23, 2014)

*They Arent Hiding It Anymore: Calls for Genocide, Rape of Palestinian Women enter Israeli Mainstream*



> As we watch the horrifying slaughter unfold in Gaza, bear in mind the Israeli psychosis that fuels and justifies it. Here are comments from three rightwing Israelis  two leading politicians and a professor  who very much reflect a strain of mainstream thinking in Israel, one that the international media largely avoids noting.
> 
> Each, in their different ways, is advocating a genocide of the Palestinians.
> 
> ...



_More at link_ They Aren?t Hiding It Anymore: Calls for Genocide, Rape of Palestinian Women enter Israeli Mainstream | Global Research


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

fanger said:


> *They Arent Hiding It Anymore: Calls for Genocide, Rape of Palestinian Women enter Israeli Mainstream*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



'

try again    fang------Ayelet stated that  "mothers"   who urge encourage and urge their sons 
to murder should be killed        I agree--------and perceive that you do not -----have demonstrated 
egregious mendacity


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## fanger (Jul 23, 2014)

Would your agreement extend to American "mothers" who urge encourage and urge their sons To join the IDF?



> finally we have Moshe Feiglin, a deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament and a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu&#8217;s Likud party, urging the Israeli army to kill Palestinians in Gaza indiscriminately and use every means possible to get them to leave:
> 
> [Netanyahu] announces that Israel is about to attack military targets in their area and urges those who are not involved and do not wish to be harmed to leave immediately. Sinai is not far from Gaza and they can leave. This will be the limit of Israel&#8217;s humanitarian efforts. &#8230; All the military and infrastructural targets will be attacked with no consideration for &#8216;human shields&#8217; or &#8216;environmental damage&#8217;. &#8230;
> 
> ...


http://www.globalresearch.ca/they-a...inian-women-enters-israeli-mainstream/5392634


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 23, 2014)

About American mothers who want their children to go to Israel and enlist in the IDF, this was my response to a mother who could not wait for her daughter to graduate high school and go. Why are you so eager for your daughter to become a baby killer and a traitor to her country? Now we see two mothers, of the dead so called American IDF soldiers, must live with what they have done, if, of course, they encouraged their kids to enlist in the IDF. They killed their kids.


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

for those confused-----fang's  post is not a quotation-----

   as to fang's allegation that active duty in a military is defined as  "MURDERER"----I served 
   in the USA  navy------I saved lives.       My son served in the USA navy---he did ship work and 
   in Lebanon he saved lives.     My father served in the USA navy and he------kept the ship's books 
        (only jew on board-----they needed an accountant)      ayalet alluded to the mothers 
        of shahid pigs and throat slitting pigs who gloried in the  accomplishments of their 
        children and their service to    isaallah


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## toastman (Jul 23, 2014)

fanger said:


> Would your agreement extend to American "mothers" who urge encourage and urge their sons To join the IDF?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It never gets old listening to pro Palestinians complaining about what some extremist Israelis aaid about this and that, given that what Palestinians including their leaders have said about Israel and Israelis.....

How many videos have we seen of Palestinians they want to kill all Zionists and destroy Israel?
How many videos have we seen made by Hamas mocking Israel by glorifying precious attacks on Israel?
Palestinians constantly say the most disgusting things concerning what they hope happens to Israel and Israel, so when you PaliNazis complain qbout a remark like this, all I can do is laugh at you. 

Concerning what she said, yes it is very harsh and I would advise her to keep her thoughts to herself...


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## RoccoR (Jul 23, 2014)

[MENTION=37610]SherriMunnerlyn[/MENTION],  _et al,_

Oh, for heaven's sake!



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> ... .... ... .... ... Why are you so eager for your daughter to become a baby killer and a traitor to her country?


*(COMMENT)*

"Baby Killer"

"Traitor"

This is over the top.

First, the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is no such thing.  And such inflammatory remarks are simply unbecoming decency.  

What is the conflict about, at the basic level.  It is a dispute between cultures over the a series of decisions that were started to be made nearly a century ago.

It is good to have an open and frank discussion about the various aspects of the conflict.   But such rhetoric and sensationalized comments as this are totally inaccurate and merely an attempt to demonize the IDF for the very things that the Jihadist and Fedayeen are very much famous.

I recommend that you make an effort to be more constructive in your comments.  Think before you speak.  The Arab Palestinian has absolutely no room to talk relative to Human Rights Law and the impact of the combat outcomes.

Israel is blamed for everything from Palestinian men beating their wives, to the need for Arab Palestinians to wage Jihad.  There is no culture in the world that whines more than the Palestinian.  

With respect to the need for the IDF to respond, Even the PLO Envoy to the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva, sees that:

1.) The Israeli bombing campaign now underway in Gaza is not the monstrous violation of human rights critics claim. It is, rather, a defensive action against human rights abuses. If you dont believe Israels spokesmen, take it from the Palestinian Authoritys own human rights guy.

2.) There are reasonable voices among the Palestinian Authority leadership who take a balanced view and share it with their own people, in Arabic. If you dont believe me, take it from Memri, the staunchly conservative Middle East Media Research Institute, which rarely has a kind word to say about Palestinian officialdom, but caught this video and posted it.​
I think there is ample evidence that the IDF has done more than any other nation, faced with an aggressor such as the Arab Palestinian, to comply with Humanitarian Law.  Have there been mistakes, probably given the duration of the conflict.  But that does not absolve the Arab Palestinian from instigating the conflict and inciting violence.  Nor does it permit to openly violating IHL.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2014)

Mr R-----you do not understand-----the position of the  isaallah religion is    ----
   jews have no human rights  -----ask their heros and their  "gods"    ---
   muhhummad,   adolf hitler,    al husseini ,    meshaaal     etc etc   
   for more insight-----go to a mosque on a Friday afternoon-----in which the khutbah jumaat 
   is delivered in English or read  Stormfront


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jul 23, 2014)

Rocco, I left that comment in comments to an article in an American Jewish publication and I received many likes to my comment from American Jews. Every American Jew is not willing to so readily become a traitor to America. Some Jews feel loyalty to America and see the truth about Israel and her war criminal history in Palestine.


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## Statistikhengst (Jul 23, 2014)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Rocco, I left that comment in comments to an article in an American Jewish publication and I received many likes to my comment from American Jews. Every American Jew is not willing to so readily become a traitor to America. Some Jews feel loyalty to America and see the truth about Israel and her war criminal history in Palestine.




You are dreaming if you think that. Well, that's assuming that you can even think.


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## RoccoR (Jul 23, 2014)

[MENTION=37610]SherriMunnerlyn[/MENTION],  _et al,_

Serving in the IDF is not being a "traitor to America."



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Rocco, I left that comment in comments to an article in an American Jewish publication and I received many likes to my comment from American Jews. Every American Jew is not willing to so readily become a traitor to America. Some Jews feel loyalty to America and see the truth about Israel and her war criminal history in Palestine.


*(COMMENT)*

The US has a history of serving in Foreign Military capacities with countries that need protection.  The original Flying Tigers (AVG) flew as part of the Chinese Air Force, similarly did the Lafayette Escadrille for the French Air Service.  By the time the Japanese attacked America in WWII, there were about 9,000 Americans in the Royal Canadian Air Force.   All served honorably.  Gregory "Pappy" Boyington was in the Flying Tigers and already an ace prior to rejoining the United States Marine Corps as a pilot.  He was awarded the Medal of Honor.

Israel, for its more than six decade in continuous conflict with the Arab Palestinians, has done remarkably well defending its sovereignty.  Like Americans before now, there will be many readily to protect and defend that Jewish Nation from the Arab Oppression which has haunted it for more than half a century.  In any extended conflict, the shear number of hostile engagements are going to lead to violations of one code or another.  That is not the same as a culture like the Arab Palestinians which have pledged hostilities in violation of various international principles, it is much different from a culture like the Arab Palestinians that further incite conflict - yet oppose (as a matter of policy) good faith negotiations.  

You are entitled to believe anything you want, but at the end of the day, it is the Arab Palestinians that have the history of past criminal behaviors and terrorism.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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