# Customer Care: A Philosphical Perspective



## Connery

Customer care, serving others, effectuating the best experience possible has been something I have had a lifelong interest in. It is a passion of mine. 

Beginning with my first business a small bookkeeping and taxation business in The Bronx when I was 14 years old getting clients that were mom and pop stores and  the people who went to bars( they did not want to do their taxes and I was cheap and dressed in a suit). Through today I have always had a keen interest in what makes a business grow, how I can best serve those who patronize the business and how to give them a value added experience. 

The product or service the patron desires is one thing, they can get that product or service anywhere. 

The question then becomes how can I can I make the business/organization  their first choice, have repeat "customers" and grow through word of mouth. 

Last year prior to buying my motorcycle I has a discussion with Scott Wine CEO of Polaris Industries and Steve Menneto, who oversees Victory and Indian operations as VP-Motorcycles and I told them I am not just buying a motorcycle I am forming a partnership with their organization.  I wanted to know what that partnership would look like from my end as a consumer. This is a new product line for them.

As it turns out I was asked if I wanted to start the inaugural motorcycle club in my area.  I will do this. 

My style has elements of Nordstrom and LLBean customer care. I have been assisting the VA on pro bono basis for years on their advisory board regarding the treatment and care patients receive in addition to several other organizations.

To me how a person is treated by a company/organization they frequent is developed from a philosophical perspective and executed in how each individual is treated and how that experience is viewed.

How do you folks like to be treated? What do you expect when you give of your time, your patronage and your loyalty to a business/organization?


----------



## Pennywise

I had a business partner who was socially retarded. Not only was he incapable of understanding the need to treat clients/customers like you truly appreciate their patronage, he actually didn't care to learn. Needless to say that venture did not last.

I treat clients as I wish to be treated. I tell them and show them that their support of my company is greatly appreciated. It's takes little effort to extend courtesy which in and of itself generates loyalty. Go beyond common courtesy and treat customers like your business depends on them (which it does) and you have a customer for life.


----------



## Mr. H.

I like to feel as if I'm doing business with my best friend. Whether it's a car dealership or a law firm.


----------



## JakeStarkey

I try to treat everyone in life with reciprocity: do to others as I want them do to me.

That meant in the academy, the military, and the public sector I ensured to the best possible level _internal _and _external _customer care.

That means everyone: family, business associates, church members, neighbors, grocery and drug and convenience stores, the mailman, the dental and medical folks, every one.

The blessings that have come from that have included smooth operations, little unhappiness, and reciprocal blessings beyond imagination.


----------



## Esmeralda

I can think of only two things I've used consistently for years. Both of them for about 25 years. One is Starbucks Coffee. I lived in Seattle when Starbucks originated and where the first stores were opened. In the beginning they were trying to promote themselves and drum up business. They had a promotional thing where you were given a punch card which they'd punch whenever you bought 250 grams of coffee. After buying a certain amount, you got one free. I took several and made that scheme work for me for a couple of years. I've had coffee from the US and all over Europe, and I think Starbucks is very good. When I'm someplace that doesn't sell good coffee in the grocery store, I buy it at Starbucks by the bag. The only reason I have stuck with them for 25 years is I like the quality of the product. I don't buy their over priced pastries and foods. Only coffee.

The other thing is a skin care line I use, which I've also been using for 25 years. I use it because it is very good quality, and it is plant based, using no animal products and doesn't test on animals. I buy it all over the world in department stores, airports, & shops in Europe that sell cosmetics and perfumes. I don't deal directly with the company. They do often have specialty priced items, and they always have samples to give away, which are great for traveling. But, the quality is so high, I'd buy it anyway. 

So, really, for both companies it is essentially the quality. Consistent quality. That's why I stick with them.

I don't have any loyalty or consistency with any other product, not that I can think of.

Another thing: I've never had one bit of problem with either product, so I've never had the need to complain about or return an item.  Apparently, if you have a product that is beyond reproach, you don't need to have a complex customer service program set up.


----------



## Roudy

Connery said:


> Customer care, serving others, effectuating the best experience possible has been something I have had a lifelong interest in. It is a passion of mine.
> 
> Beginning with my first business a small bookkeeping and taxation business in The Bronx when I was 14 years old getting clients that were mom and pop stores and  the people who went to bars( they did not want to do their taxes and I was cheap and dressed in a suit). Through today I have always had a keen interest in what makes a business grow, how I can best serve those who patronize the business and how to give them a value added experience.
> 
> The product or service the patron desires is one thing, they can get that product or service anywhere.
> 
> The question then becomes how can I can I make the business/organization  their first choice, have repeat "customers" and grow through word of mouth.
> 
> Last year prior to buying my motorcycle I has a discussion with Scott Wine CEO of Polaris Industries and Steve Menneto, who oversees Victory and Indian operations as VP-Motorcycles and I told them I am not just buying a motorcycle I am forming a partnership with their organization.  I wanted to know what that partnership would look like from my end as a consumer. This is a new product line for them.
> 
> As it turns out I was asked if I wanted to start the inaugural motorcycle club in my area.  I will do this.
> 
> My style has elements of Nordstrom and LLBean customer care. I have been assisting the VA on pro bono basis for years on their advisory board regarding the treatment and care patients receive in addition to several other organizations.
> 
> To me how a person is treated by a company/organization they frequent is developed from a philosophical perspective and executed in how each individual is treated and how that experience is viewed.
> 
> How do you folks like to be treated? What do you expect when you give of your time, your patronage and your loyalty to a business/organization?


One of my businesses is legal / govt service related, and I can tell you, customer care is everything. And the proof is in the pudding. Over 60 percent of our gross is repeat customers or referrals, and that percentage keeps growing over time. Since there is no "hard sell" involved, I tell my employees to explain everything clearly and make sure they never promise something that they cannot perform, and to inform clients of the risks involved.  

And most importantly,  show respect and appreciation for the client choosing you and your company to go with. The big payoff is when corporations refer other corporations to us which happens all the time. That's when you know you're doing something right.

In a day and age of yelp and google reviews etc. a business that mistreats its customers will pay a big price for its behavior. People tell us all the time "I read about you guys in the internet to and that's why I choose you".  I know personally I read reviews, especially when I choose destinations and hotels to go to, and I have learned a lot from those reviews about a business.


----------



## Connery

Pennywise said:


> I had a business partner who was socially retarded. Not only was he incapable of understanding the need to treat clients/customers like you truly appreciate their patronage, he actually didn't care to learn. Needless to say that venture did not last.
> 
> *I treat clients as I wish to be treated.* I tell them and show them that their support of my company is greatly appreciated. It's takes little effort to extend courtesy which in and of itself generates loyalty. Go beyond common courtesy and treat customers like your business depends on them (which it does) and you have a customer for life.



I like what you said. 

Recently, I was at LLBean returning an item with a receipt and my LLBean credit card. The cashier wanted my driver's license. I figured for photo purposes I offered my military ID, it has my picture and name and official seal. No personal information. 

The cashier insisted that I produce my driver's license it was LLBean and I have a long standing relationship with them. I gave my driver's license. I had no idea why the cashier started to copy information and I finished the transaction.

When I got home I called the corporate offices and they conducted an investigation.

A few days later I received a call from the head of security who informed me that the practice of taking a driver's license was not the practice Of LLBean and the personnel had made a mistake.

This singular incident has instilled a greater respect for the organization and the employee who I have seen several times after this incident. The full disclosure and transparency shown by LLBean not only this time, but many times gives me reason to *trust * these people and the company.

The Corporate offices supported their personnel and provided better training.


----------



## Esmeralda

Connery said:


> Pennywise said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a business partner who was socially retarded. Not only was he incapable of understanding the need to treat clients/customers like you truly appreciate their patronage, he actually didn't care to learn. Needless to say that venture did not last.
> 
> *I treat clients as I wish to be treated.* I tell them and show them that their support of my company is greatly appreciated. It's takes little effort to extend courtesy which in and of itself generates loyalty. Go beyond common courtesy and treat customers like your business depends on them (which it does) and you have a customer for life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like what you said.
> 
> Recently, I was at* LLBean *returning an item with a receipt and my LLBean credit card. The cashier wanted my driver's license. I figured for photo purposes I offered my military ID, it has my picture and name and official seal. No personal information.
> 
> The cashier insisted that I produce my driver's license it was LLBean and I have a long standing relationship with them. I gave my driver's license. I had no idea why the cashier started to copy information and I finished the transaction.
> 
> When I got home I called the corporate offices and they conducted an investigation.
> 
> A few days later I received a call from the head of security who informed me that the practice of taking a driver's license was not the practice Of LLBean and the personnel had made a mistake.
> 
> This singular incident has instilled a greater respect for the organization and the employee who I have seen several times after this incident. The full disclosure and transparency shown by LLBean not only this time, but many times gives me reason to *trust * these people and the company.
> 
> The Corporate offices supported their personnel and provided better training.
Click to expand...


Funny thing.  The backpack I use, for day trips and trips up to 2-3 weeks (I travel light), is from LL Bean. I purchased it in 1984 and I still use it. I could definitely say I have loyalty for LL Bean. This backpack gets regular use and  has been used for nearly 30 years.  Again, it is the quality of the product that makes the difference to me.


----------



## Connery

Roudy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> Customer care, serving others, effectuating the best experience possible has been something I have had a lifelong interest in. It is a passion of mine.
> 
> Beginning with my first business a small bookkeeping and taxation business in The Bronx when I was 14 years old getting clients that were mom and pop stores and  the people who went to bars( they did not want to do their taxes and I was cheap and dressed in a suit). Through today I have always had a keen interest in what makes a business grow, how I can best serve those who patronize the business and how to give them a value added experience.
> 
> The product or service the patron desires is one thing, they can get that product or service anywhere.
> 
> The question then becomes how can I can I make the business/organization  their first choice, have repeat "customers" and grow through word of mouth.
> 
> Last year prior to buying my motorcycle I has a discussion with Scott Wine CEO of Polaris Industries and Steve Menneto, who oversees Victory and Indian operations as VP-Motorcycles and I told them I am not just buying a motorcycle I am forming a partnership with their organization.  I wanted to know what that partnership would look like from my end as a consumer. This is a new product line for them.
> 
> As it turns out I was asked if I wanted to start the inaugural motorcycle club in my area.  I will do this.
> 
> My style has elements of Nordstrom and LLBean customer care. I have been assisting the VA on pro bono basis for years on their advisory board regarding the treatment and care patients receive in addition to several other organizations.
> 
> To me how a person is treated by a company/organization they frequent is developed from a philosophical perspective and executed in how each individual is treated and how that experience is viewed.
> 
> How do you folks like to be treated? What do you expect when you give of your time, your patronage and your loyalty to a business/organization?
> 
> 
> 
> One of my businesses is legal / govt service related, and I can tell you, customer care is everything. And the proof is in the pudding. Over 60 percent of our gross is repeat customers or referrals, and that percentage keeps growing over time. *Since there is no "hard sell" involved, I tell my employees to explain everything clearly and make sure they never promise something that they cannot perform, and to inform clients of the risks involved.  *
> 
> And most importantly,  show respect and appreciation for the client choosing you and your company to go with. The big payoff is when corporations refer other corporations to us which happens all the time. That's when you know you're doing something right.
> 
> In a day and age of yelp and google reviews etc. a business that mistreats its customers will pay a big price for its behavior. People tell us all the time "I read about you guys in the internet to and that's why I choose you".  I know personally I read reviews, especially when I choose destinations and hotels to go to, and I have learned a lot from those reviews about a business.
Click to expand...



Yep full disclosure, risks etc. The worst thing is when clients sit and wonder what is going on. That element of trust comes in and the client can turn into a good source of referrals or a reliance aspect of positive cash flow. People want to be informed.


----------



## Unkotare

You mentioned a "philosophy" a few times, but are you really just talking about a business approach?


----------



## Connery

Unkotare said:


> You mentioned a "philosophy" a few times, but are you really just talking about a business approach?




No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.

This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.

For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.


----------



## Unkotare

Connery said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned a "philosophy" a few times, but are you really just talking about a business approach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
Click to expand...



This may be an effective example of behaviorism, but what exactly is the underlying philosophy, if I may ask?


----------



## Connery

Unkotare said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned a "philosophy" a few times, but are you really just talking about a business approach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> This may be an effective example of behaviorism, but what exactly is the underlying philosophy, if I may ask?
Click to expand...



Treating the customer with love, respect and value. "Love" within the parameters established in the Agape sense of meaning. It is one thing to provide the product or service it is entirely another to reach into the customer and speak  what values they hold. That is not a simple or mechanical task. That takes a great deal of development and establishing an identity which people can rely upon which speaks to your audience's core values.


----------



## syrenn

Connery said:


> Customer care, serving others, effectuating the best experience possible has been something I have had a lifelong interest in. It is a passion of mine.
> 
> Beginning with my first business a small bookkeeping and taxation business in The Bronx when I was 14 years old getting clients that were mom and pop stores and  the people who went to bars( they did not want to do their taxes and I was cheap and dressed in a suit). Through today I have always had a keen interest in what makes a business grow, how I can best serve those who patronize the business and how to give them a value added experience.
> 
> The product or service the patron desires is one thing, they can get that product or service anywhere.
> 
> The question then becomes how can I can I make the business/organization  their first choice, have repeat "customers" and grow through word of mouth.
> 
> Last year prior to buying my motorcycle I has a discussion with Scott Wine CEO of Polaris Industries and Steve Menneto, who oversees Victory and Indian operations as VP-Motorcycles and I told them I am not just buying a motorcycle I am forming a partnership with their organization.  I wanted to know what that partnership would look like from my end as a consumer. This is a new product line for them.
> 
> As it turns out I was asked if I wanted to start the inaugural motorcycle club in my area.  I will do this.
> 
> My style has elements of Nordstrom and LLBean customer care. I have been assisting the VA on pro bono basis for years on their advisory board regarding the treatment and care patients receive in addition to several other organizations.
> 
> To me how a person is treated by a company/organization they frequent is developed from a philosophical perspective and executed in how each individual is treated and how that experience is viewed.
> 
> How do you folks like to be treated? What do you expect when you give of your time, your patronage and your loyalty to a business/organization?




I work in the hospitality and service industry. There are three main goals. Quality of service/product given, fostering a positive customer experience and growing the business. 

The idea of "what can i do for you right now that can make your experience better" is always the best way to go. 

now.... knowing this and being from the "back of the house" i understand its workings very well. 

what i expect as a customer.... is what i know they are and should be capable of. Do your job and do it well is what i expect.


----------



## Unkotare

Connery said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This may be an effective example of behaviorism, but what exactly is the underlying philosophy, if I may ask?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Treating the customer with love, respect and value. "Love" within the parameters established in the Agape sense of meaning. It is one thing to provide the product or service it is entirely another to reach into the customer and speak  what values they hold. That is not a simple or mechanical task. That takes a great deal of development and establishing an identity which people can rely upon which speaks to your audience's core values.
Click to expand...



I suppose I'm asking why do so, if for any other reason than to profit? Would you (in the general sense) "love, respect, and value" them if there were no benefit to be had on your part? If so, why charge for goods and services beyond bare subsistence?


----------



## Esmeralda

Unkotare said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> This may be an effective example of behaviorism, but what exactly is the underlying philosophy, if I may ask?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treating the customer with love, respect and value. "Love" within the parameters established in the Agape sense of meaning. It is one thing to provide the product or service it is entirely another to reach into the customer and speak  what values they hold. That is not a simple or mechanical task. That takes a great deal of development and establishing an identity which people can rely upon which speaks to your audience's core values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I'm asking why do so, if for any other reason than to profit? Would you (in the general sense) "love, respect, and value" them if there were no benefit to be had on your part? If so, why charge for goods and services beyond bare subsistence?
Click to expand...


Is there anyone on Earth who puts up with you other than the people on this board?  Perhaps you should think about your personal 'customer service,' philosophically that is, in how you market  yourself to  other people: then you'd realize why you have no friends IRL.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Connery said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned a "philosophy" a few times, but are you really just talking about a business approach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
Click to expand...


I have to agree with you, Connery.  Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.  

My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )

*  Good customer service 

The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else.


----------



## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> Treating the customer with love, respect and value. "Love" within the parameters established in the Agape sense of meaning. It is one thing to provide the product or service it is entirely another to reach into the customer and speak  what values they hold. That is not a simple or mechanical task. That takes a great deal of development and establishing an identity which people can rely upon which speaks to your audience's core values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I'm asking why do so, if for any other reason than to profit? Would you (in the general sense) "love, respect, and value" them if there were no benefit to be had on your part? If so, why charge for goods and services beyond bare subsistence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there anyone on Earth who puts up with you other than the people on this board?
Click to expand...



Go play somewhere else. I'm trying to have a discussion with an adult here.


----------



## Esmeralda

Unkotare said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose I'm asking why do so, if for any other reason than to profit? Would you (in the general sense) "love, respect, and value" them if there were no benefit to be had on your part? If so, why charge for goods and services beyond bare subsistence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anyone on Earth who puts up with you other than the people on this board?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Go play somewhere else. I'm trying to have a discussion with an adult here.
Click to expand...

Ironically, what you are doing is playing your little trolling game, not being an adult at all.  Way to project.


----------



## Connery

Jeremiah said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned a "philosophy" a few times, but are you really just talking about a business approach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, Connery.  Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.
> 
> My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  *Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!*  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )
> 
> *  Good customer service
> 
> The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else.
Click to expand...



You bring up a great point: Team building! If there is poor leadership it trickles down to the customer base through those personnel that come into contact with the customers. There is no excuse for that and it erodes positive flow and inertia that builds when  team or member is doing the right type of job.


----------



## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anyone on Earth who puts up with you other than the people on this board?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go play somewhere else. I'm trying to have a discussion with an adult here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ironically, what you are doing is playing your little trolling game, not being an adult at all.  Way to project.
Click to expand...



Maybe the Philosophy forum isn't the place for you. Why don't you go back to critiquing President Bush's paintings or something else more your speed?


----------



## Esmeralda

Unkotare said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go play somewhere else. I'm trying to have a discussion with an adult here.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, what you are doing is playing your little trolling game, not being an adult at all.  Way to project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the Philosophy forum isn't the place for you. Why don't you go back to critiquing President Bush's paintings or something else more your speed?
Click to expand...

Again, you project on to me what is your level.  Pathetic.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

I erased what I wrote because it sounded negative.  The important thing about my experience was that I learned something from it.  End of story. 

- J.


----------



## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, what you are doing is playing your little trolling game, not being an adult at all.  Way to project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the Philosophy forum isn't the place for you. Why don't you go back to critiquing President Bush's paintings or something else more your speed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you project on to me what is your level.  Pathetic.
Click to expand...



No, really, they need your help analyzing the colors and brushstrokes and whatnot. Run along now and let the adults get back to our discussion.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Esmeralda said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, what you are doing is playing your little trolling game, not being an adult at all.  Way to project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the Philosophy forum isn't the place for you. Why don't you go back to critiquing President Bush's paintings or something else more your speed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, you project on to me what is your level.  Pathetic.
Click to expand...


Esmeralda, that is a lovely avatar.   I like it!


----------



## Roudy

Connery said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, Connery.  Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.
> 
> My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  *Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!*  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )
> 
> *  Good customer service
> 
> The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You bring up a great point: Team building! If there is poor leadership it trickles down to the customer base through those personnel that come into contact with the customers. There is no excuse for that and it erodes psotive flow and inertia that builds when  team or member is doing the right type of job.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's me, since I've been a multiple business owner since I was young, but I can tell immediately when the business is managed well, and there is good teamwork.  Usually it's when employees love their boss (and each other) and think of the business as their own, even more than the boss does.  My employees are like that.  I have to calm them down sometimes, in fact, when they get overzealous.


----------



## Unkotare

Roudy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, Connery.  Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.
> 
> My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  *Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!*  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )
> 
> *  Good customer service
> 
> The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You bring up a great point: Team building! If there is poor leadership it trickles down to the customer base through those personnel that come into contact with the customers. There is no excuse for that and it erodes psotive flow and inertia that builds when  team or member is doing the right type of job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if it's me, since I've been a multiple business owner since I was young, but I can tell immediately when the business is managed well, and there is good teamwork.  Usually it's when employees love their boss (and each other) and think of the business as their own, even more than the boss does.  My employees are like that.  I have to calm them down sometimes, in fact, when they get overzealous.
Click to expand...




Sounds like you run a very successful brothel.


----------



## syrenn

Connery said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, Connery.  Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.
> 
> My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  *Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!*  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )
> 
> *  Good customer service
> 
> The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You bring up a great point: Team building! If there is poor leadership it trickles down to the customer base through those personnel that come into contact with the customers. There is no excuse for that and it erodes psotive flow and inertia that builds when  team or member is doing the right type of job.
Click to expand...



I worked in a very secessful restaurant.... never had a bad review and the head chef and i run it like clockwork.....  a standing three hour wait says it all. 

then then the money went to the owners head.... and he started making changes.... he took the reigns off..... things slid by...then MORE slid by.....  

the chef and i warned him, told him what the problems were..... the GM needed to go. The GM's pets needed to go. He had to stop skimming off the money and forcing us to use inferior less expensive products.... Quality of product and employee morale were on a decline....and we were losing customer. 

the chef and i left, we could no longer take it...... and he eventually closed. 

The problem was the owner....all he wanted the money, not seeing that losing customers based on an inferior product and lazy service effected his bottom line.  The other problem was his GM.....she was a yes man. What ever he said was RIGHT and she voiced no opposing opinion. She had her pets and they of course could do no wrong......


----------



## syrenn

and as a foot note to that sad leadership story.....

one of the line cooks while i was there..... an immigrant who worked hard and got his citizenship..... 

bought the restaurant...gutted it....and has built a very secessful restaurant of his own. I am very proud of him!!!


----------



## Statistikhengst

Jeremiah said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned a "philosophy" a few times, but are you really just talking about a business approach?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No not a business approach alone. There is a whole philosophy from my perspective. The business approach is results driven based on product or service rendered.
> 
> This is more how do you treat those who wish to visit your establishment/organization.
> 
> For example, Indian Motorcycles sent my son an official Motorcycle Riders Club pin that he will wear on his Cub Scout Uniform. These people spent a few cents and in return have all garnered my desire to help them in their venture.  I already bought the bike I am not gong to buy another for a good long time and if I do it has nothing to do with the pin my son will wear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, Connery.  *Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.*  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.
> 
> My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )
> 
> *  Good customer service
> 
> The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  *The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else*.
Click to expand...


Both boldeds: strong agreement. Well said.

And thank you,  [MENTION=40540]Connery[/MENTION], for the invite.

As a businessman running a three-pronged (soon to be four pronged) small-business all on my own and due to the nature of my field, all of my clients are repeat clients - they are supposed to be - it's not just the Golden Rule that applies, which I think most all of us would agree to. But in my line of work, my clients appreciate honesty AND the follow-through that I do after an appointment. My business continues to grow (I started in October 2013) almost completely by word-of-mouth referrals and it is my clients who like the kind of attention that is paid to their needs not just during the appointment, but rather, in between as well.

Also to be noted is that in Germany, there is an entirely different mentality than in the USA vis-a-vis customer care. Often, people jokingly call Germany a "Service Desert" or a "Service Wasteland", but I find that the situation is improving.

Final observation: I think that customers are more likely to come back or give referrals when they honestly sense that you are concerned about their needs not just because of the profit you will make from them having bought your goods or services.  As my best friend, who is a high powered businessman in the Mid-West says: "all transactions are a form of communication, make it a good communication".

So, those were my two Eurocents.


----------



## Connery

Roudy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, Connery.  Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.
> 
> My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  *Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!*  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )
> 
> *  Good customer service
> 
> The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You bring up a great point: Team building! If there is poor leadership it trickles down to the customer base through those personnel that come into contact with the customers. There is no excuse for that and it erodes psotive flow and inertia that builds when  team or member is doing the right type of job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know if it's me, since I've been a multiple business owner since I was young, but I can tell immediately when the business is managed well, and there is good teamwork.  Usually it's when employees love their boss (and each other) and think of the business as their own, even more than the boss does.  My employees are like that.  I have to calm them down sometimes, in fact, when they get overzealous.
Click to expand...



That is  the  lynchpin between enjoying a successful business and continuously endeavoring. I can think of a few teams I was on and everything flowed seamlessly. We enjoyed each others company off work and had many great times. You bring back some nice memories.


----------



## Connery

syrenn said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, Connery.  Customer service really begins AFTER The sale.  I was in car biz years ago and when I sold them the car I would wash their license plate.  It was a new car.  Why put a dirty license plate on their new car?   It is the small things.  A call the next day.  How was the drive home?  Do you have any questions about buttons, switches, etc?  Anything they didn't know how to work?   Do you need help to set up your garage door opener?  All the things they may not have thought of..  will make them tell others about you.  You'll have a customer for life.  They are the people who build your clientele and your business.  I would also send them business from my networking clubs and invite them as speakers if they owned a business or were in sales.   I got referrals from these people too.
> 
> My boss appreciated my efforts but began to side with the managers against customers which grieved me because I knew these complaints were valid.  *Later he found out those same managers were stealing from him.  He learned the hard way although I do not see his business has rebounded from the damage they did to his reputation.  I left in the midst of it.   ( one of the managers keyed the paint on my cust. car because it was my sale and he was jealous of me.  He did that to my customer!*  She told me she knew he did it even though she couldn't prove it.  I felt he did it but didn't let her know that.   So I was late getting that delivery and sale finished.  It had to be fixed. )
> 
> *  Good customer service
> 
> The key is what do your customers remember about their experience?  The memory of the experience far outlasts everything else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You bring up a great point: Team building! If there is poor leadership it trickles down to the customer base through those personnel that come into contact with the customers. There is no excuse for that and it erodes psotive flow and inertia that builds when  team or member is doing the right type of job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I worked in a very secessful restaurant.... never had a bad review and the head chef and i run it like clockwork.....  a standing three hour wait says it all.
> 
> then then the money went to the owners head.... and he started making changes.... he took the reigns off..... things slid by...then MORE slid by.....
> 
> the chef and i warned him, told him what the problems were..... the GM needed to go. The GM's pets needed to go. He had to stop skimming off the money and forcing us to use inferior less expensive products.... Quality of product and employee morale were on a decline....and we were losing customer.
> 
> the chef and i left, we could no longer take it...... and he eventually closed.
> 
> The problem was the owner....all he wanted the money, not seeing that losing customers based on an inferior product and lazy service effected his bottom line.  The other problem was his GM.....she was a yes man. What ever he said was RIGHT and she voiced no opposing opinion. She had her pets and they of course could do no wrong......
Click to expand...




Reminds me of an the adage, "the road to success is always under construction". Once a person or organization sits on their laurels erosion starts to set in. That erosion eats away the mission, the service, the very principals on which the business/organization was started on to begin with. To recapture that is near impossible without a  drastic work up and overhaul.


----------



## syrenn

Connery said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> You bring up a great point: Team building! If there is poor leadership it trickles down to the customer base through those personnel that come into contact with the customers. There is no excuse for that and it erodes psotive flow and inertia that builds when  team or member is doing the right type of job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked in a very secessful restaurant.... never had a bad review and the head chef and i run it like clockwork.....  a standing three hour wait says it all.
> 
> then then the money went to the owners head.... and he started making changes.... he took the reigns off..... things slid by...then MORE slid by.....
> 
> the chef and i warned him, told him what the problems were..... the GM needed to go. The GM's pets needed to go. He had to stop skimming off the money and forcing us to use inferior less expensive products.... Quality of product and employee morale were on a decline....and we were losing customer.
> 
> the chef and i left, we could no longer take it...... and he eventually closed.
> 
> The problem was the owner....all he wanted the money, not seeing that losing customers based on an inferior product and lazy service effected his bottom line.  The other problem was his GM.....she was a yes man. What ever he said was RIGHT and she voiced no opposing opinion. She had her pets and they of course could do no wrong......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of an the adage, "the road to success is always under construction". Once a person or organization sits on their laurels erosion starts to set in. That erosion eats away the mission, the service, the very principals on which the business/organization was started on to begin with. To recapture that is near impossible without a  drastic work up and overhaul.
Click to expand...



The biggest issues was having him admit that there WAS a problem. He would never let the GM go becasue he liked her......  she stroked his vanity.  

All he saw was the money rolling in and the 3 hour wait line.....  what he did not GET was that to keep it coming...there had to be controls on quality and staffing.....


----------



## Connery

syrenn said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked in a very secessful restaurant.... never had a bad review and the head chef and i run it like clockwork.....  a standing three hour wait says it all.
> 
> then then the money went to the owners head.... and he started making changes.... he took the reigns off..... things slid by...then MORE slid by.....
> 
> the chef and i warned him, told him what the problems were..... the GM needed to go. The GM's pets needed to go. He had to stop skimming off the money and forcing us to use inferior less expensive products.... Quality of product and employee morale were on a decline....and we were losing customer.
> 
> the chef and i left, we could no longer take it...... and he eventually closed.
> 
> The problem was the owner....all he wanted the money, not seeing that losing customers based on an inferior product and lazy service effected his bottom line.  The other problem was his GM.....she was a yes man. What ever he said was RIGHT and she voiced no opposing opinion. She had her pets and they of course could do no wrong......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of an the adage, "the road to success is always under construction". Once a person or organization sits on their laurels erosion starts to set in. That erosion eats away the mission, the service, the very principals on which the business/organization was started on to begin with. To recapture that is near impossible without a  drastic work up and overhaul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest issues was having him admit that there WAS a problem. He would never let the GM go becasue he liked her......  she stroked his vanity.
> 
> All he saw was the money rolling in and the 3 hour wait line.....  what he did not GET was that to keep it coming...there had to be controls on quality and staffing.....
Click to expand...



Sometimes it takes just as much work to break down a business as it does to build it up. Listening to the wrong people and continuously doing the wrong thing despite of all evidence to the contrary. Then poof....gone.

That is why developing a philosophy and sticking to those principles will always outlast the wrong personnel.


----------



## syrenn

Connery said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of an the adage, "the road to success is always under construction". Once a person or organization sits on their laurels erosion starts to set in. That erosion eats away the mission, the service, the very principals on which the business/organization was started on to begin with. To recapture that is near impossible without a  drastic work up and overhaul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest issues was having him admit that there WAS a problem. He would never let the GM go becasue he liked her......  she stroked his vanity.
> 
> All he saw was the money rolling in and the 3 hour wait line.....  what he did not GET was that to keep it coming...there had to be controls on quality and staffing.....
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes it takes just as much work to break down a business as it does to build it up. Listening to the wrong people and continuously doing the wrong thing despite of all evidence to the contrary. Then poof....gone.
> 
> That is why developing a philosophy and sticking to those principles will always outlast the wrong personnel.
Click to expand...


good lord did he ever listen to the wrong people!!!  He lost everything..... 

he listened to the yes men.... the people who "had his back" .....  he did not want to listen to the "complainers"  or anyone who did not fall into line with what ever crazy shit he wanted to do.....  

In short.... he did not want to listen to the hard truths of running a business.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

syrenn said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked in a very secessful restaurant.... never had a bad review and the head chef and i run it like clockwork.....  a standing three hour wait says it all.
> 
> then then the money went to the owners head.... and he started making changes.... he took the reigns off..... things slid by...then MORE slid by.....
> 
> the chef and i warned him, told him what the problems were..... the GM needed to go. The GM's pets needed to go. He had to stop skimming off the money and forcing us to use inferior less expensive products.... Quality of product and employee morale were on a decline....and we were losing customer.
> 
> the chef and i left, we could no longer take it...... and he eventually closed.
> 
> The problem was the owner....all he wanted the money, not seeing that losing customers based on an inferior product and lazy service effected his bottom line.  The other problem was his GM.....she was a yes man. What ever he said was RIGHT and she voiced no opposing opinion. She had her pets and they of course could do no wrong......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of an the adage, "the road to success is always under construction". Once a person or organization sits on their laurels erosion starts to set in. That erosion eats away the mission, the service, the very principals on which the business/organization was started on to begin with. To recapture that is near impossible without a  drastic work up and overhaul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest issues was having him admit that there WAS a problem. He would never let the GM go becasue he liked her......  she stroked his vanity.
> 
> All he saw was the money rolling in and the 3 hour wait line.....  what he did not GET was that to keep it coming...there had to be controls on quality and staffing.....
Click to expand...


That was my boss's problem except they were men!  They did flatter him all the time too now that I think about it.


----------



## syrenn

Jeremiah said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of an the adage, "the road to success is always under construction". Once a person or organization sits on their laurels erosion starts to set in. That erosion eats away the mission, the service, the very principals on which the business/organization was started on to begin with. To recapture that is near impossible without a  drastic work up and overhaul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest issues was having him admit that there WAS a problem. He would never let the GM go becasue he liked her......  she stroked his vanity.
> 
> All he saw was the money rolling in and the 3 hour wait line.....  what he did not GET was that to keep it coming...there had to be controls on quality and staffing.....
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was my boss's problem except they were men!  They did flatter him all the time too now that I think about it.
Click to expand...


Anyone who surrounds themselves with yes men are FOOLS. 

They flat out dont want to hear the truth....hard as it may be. 

he did not understand that taking care of his customers was the ONLY thing keeping him in the lifestyle he was enjoying.


----------



## Connery

syrenn said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest issues was having him admit that there WAS a problem. He would never let the GM go becasue he liked her......  she stroked his vanity.
> 
> All he saw was the money rolling in and the 3 hour wait line.....  what he did not GET was that to keep it coming...there had to be controls on quality and staffing.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes it takes just as much work to break down a business as it does to build it up. Listening to the wrong people and continuously doing the wrong thing despite of all evidence to the contrary. Then poof....gone.
> 
> That is why developing a philosophy and sticking to those principles will always outlast the wrong personnel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> good lord did he ever listen to the wrong people!!!  He lost everything.....
> 
> he listened to the yes men.... the people who "had his back" .....  he did not want to listen to the "complainers"  or anyone who did not fall into line with what ever crazy shit he wanted to do.....
> 
> In short.... he did not want to listen to the hard truths of running a business.
Click to expand...



I do not care what the product or service is, business is business. A person can always hire brains the trick learning what it is that will keep those core customers happy and coming back then using that to grow on and develop a wider and loyal base.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

On the bright side the job I mentioned was the exception as I had my own wallpaper business for over 2 decades and was very successful.  My clients were all referrals and decorators.  I did go out of my way for them as well.   I would leave the room cleaner than when I arrived and wash the baseboards, floors by hand so there was no residue of glue or water stains.   I was very much a perfectionist in my work from start to finish.   So that was very gratifying.   That is what perhaps some business owners do not understand or value.  The gratification of knowing you gave people the very best work / service you had to offer and they appreciated it.   That is a very rewarding feeling.


----------



## syrenn

Connery said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes it takes just as much work to break down a business as it does to build it up. Listening to the wrong people and continuously doing the wrong thing despite of all evidence to the contrary. Then poof....gone.
> 
> That is why developing a philosophy and sticking to those principles will always outlast the wrong personnel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good lord did he ever listen to the wrong people!!!  He lost everything.....
> 
> he listened to the yes men.... the people who "had his back" .....  he did not want to listen to the "complainers"  or anyone who did not fall into line with what ever crazy shit he wanted to do.....
> 
> In short.... he did not want to listen to the hard truths of running a business.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I do not care what the product or service is, business is business. A person can always hire brains the trick learning what it is that will keep those core customers happy and coming back then using that to grow on and develop a wider and loyal base.
Click to expand...



oh i agree... business is business. And if that means cutting the problem people lose.... well, it is what it is. He was never going to cut this GM loose, he liked her far to much.   Hiring a "brain" would have told him the same things the chef and i were telling him.... sorry you cant skim off the top to support an ever growing and expanding lifestyle and the customers would KNOW when you were not supplying a top quality product.  

Hired brain or no brain.... if the person calling the shots will not listen or understand what they are being told.... the ship is sunk.


----------



## syrenn

Jeremiah said:


> On the bright side the job I mentioned was the exception as I had my own wallpaper business for over 2 decades and was very successful.  My clients were all referrals and decorators.  I did go out of my way for them as well.   I would leave the room cleaner than when I arrived and wash the baseboards, floors by hand so there was no residue of glue or water stains.  I was very much a perfectionist in my work from start to finish.   So that was very gratifying.   That is what perhaps some business owners do not understand or value.  The gratification of knowing you gave people the very best work / service you had to offer and they appreciated it.   That is a very rewarding feeling.




yes... but that was just you. You were responsible to you and your customers. Its easy when its just you.... the control is all there with you. 

im my example.... the owner got to big for his britches..... He got so out of touch with his customer base and lead employees......(other then that freaking GM) ..... it was scary..... 

He was fine when he had a 15 seat counter and was behind the line cooking..... schmoozing with his customers....


----------



## HenryBHough

80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers.

80% of your grief with unreasonable complaints comes from 20% of your customers.

Fortunately the two are not always the same.

A business intent on growth and just ignore that and the percentages will remain pretty much the same.  Or you can concentrate on enhancing the customer satisfaction of the "good" customers and actively driving away, through poor service, the ones that generate constant expense through abuse of customer service.

The latter is taking on a certain vogue.

Department stores (even slightly upscale) are keeping track of customers habits.  When a good customer has problem it gets fixed.  When an expensive customer has a problem he/she/it finds little satisfaction though not an open suggestion to take the business elsewhere.  But that's the desired result and it seems to be working.  Total business growth slows but profit soars through eliminating costly problems.


----------



## Coyote

My job involves working a lot with students, in one department, at a university.  Students and their families are my customers.  I never tend to think of it as "business" or "job" - but, when they come to me for help, I want to make them feel respected, comfortable and feeling like they can come back at any time if they need more help.  I'm there for them.  It's easy to get lost or get the run-around in a big university like ours and many times that happens and they get sent needlessly from place to place.  My job, as I see it - is to make their experience when they come to me, as good as possible no matter how upset they are.  That's how I view "customer care" in my job.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Yes it is good to make them feel as if you are there to assist them.  Not your behind the big desk and they are in little chair in front of you.  When I worked in sales I would always take a chair and seat myself next to my customer rather than sit behind the desk across from them.   It worked well because we were on equal ground in a visual sense.   It does make a difference when they know you are working with them and are sincerely interested in their success.  ( and happiness )


----------



## Connery

HenryBHough said:


> 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers.
> 
> 80% of your grief with unreasonable complaints comes from 20% of your customers.
> 
> Fortunately the two are not always the same.
> 
> A business intent on growth and just ignore that and the percentages will remain pretty much the same.  *Or you can concentrate on enhancing the customer satisfaction of the "good" customers and actively driving away, through poor service, the ones that generate constant expense through abuse of customer service.
> *
> The latter is taking on a certain vogue.
> 
> Department stores (even slightly upscale) are keeping track of customers habits.  When a good customer has problem it gets fixed.  When an expensive customer has a problem he/she/it finds little satisfaction though not an open suggestion to take the business elsewhere.  But that's the desired result and it seems to be working.  Total business growth slows but profit soars through eliminating costly problems.




This takes investigation and commitment in enhancing the relationship with customers as a whole. The constant complainers still need to have their complaints investigated and a determination rendered. It is when they are not taken seriously that problems may fester and become a great deal of trouble.


----------



## Coyote

Jeremiah said:


> Yes it is good to make them feel as if you are there to assist them.  Not your behind the big desk and they are in little chair in front of you.  When I worked in sales I would always take a chair and seat myself next to my customer rather than sit behind the desk across from them.   It worked well because we were on equal ground in a visual sense.   It does make a difference when they know you are working with them and are sincerely interested in their success.  ( and happiness )



It's interesting...about 5 years ago, we moved our department to a newly renovated building.  We had a lot of say in the renovation and (in a battle with the college) - we were able to call a lot of shots in how it was designed.  We looked at the main offices of several other departments that had been newly renovated.  In all of them - there was some form of "seperation" between staff and those who came in, such as students.  High desk tops or glass interfaces like tellers.

Our department has always been informal (we're Geology and Geography, kind of earthy folks) and we did not feel comfortable with that.  I felt like it would create a seperation both physical and "status" that make students feel more seperated from us.  We all agreed that was not what we wanted.  We ended up choosing a very open floor plan, and next to each of our desks we had a comforatable chair. Every one was on the same level and relaxed - there was easy flow between desks and amongst people.

It worked for the students, the faculty and we, the staff and promoted a sense of equality and respect.  I have never regreted our choices there


----------



## Connery

Coyote said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is good to make them feel as if you are there to assist them.  Not your behind the big desk and they are in little chair in front of you.  When I worked in sales I would always take a chair and seat myself next to my customer rather than sit behind the desk across from them.   It worked well because we were on equal ground in a visual sense.   It does make a difference when they know you are working with them and are sincerely interested in their success.  ( and happiness )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting...about 5 years ago, we moved our department to a newly renovated building.  We had a lot of say in the renovation and (in a battle with the college) - we were able to call a lot of shots in how it was designed.  We looked at the main offices of several other departments that had been newly renovated.  In all of them - there was some form of "seperation" between staff and those who came in, such as students.  High desk tops or glass interfaces like tellers.
> 
> Our department has always been informal (we're Geology and Geography, kind of earthy folks) and we did not feel comfortable with that.  I felt like it would create a seperation both physical and "status" that make students feel more seperated from us.  We all agreed that was not what we wanted.  We ended up choosing a very open floor plan, and next to each of our desks we had a comforatable chair. Every one was on the same level and relaxed - there was easy flow between desks and amongst people.
> 
> It worked for the students, the faculty and *we, the staff and promoted a sense of equality and respect*.  I have never regreted our choices there
Click to expand...


This is very interesting as we discuss the various styles and approaches regarding "customer care".

As a cop and lawyer my parameters were always  well defined and the problems solving on a graduated scale. As a business owner "customer care " took on a whole different meaning where there was a great deal of flexibility and I was the "rainmanker" generating clients building relationships which would generate revenue and building a team that would service those clients and building relationships with the families of both clients and employees. This is where a philosophical approach helped a great deal. I need to establish the identity of the business, have that model fit in with a vast array of cultures depending on what industry the client was generated from and have staff understand the differences. For example, my longshoremen clients wanted   the "Bronx" guy, the football players wanted leadership/coaching style, the models wanted my french cuffs, fedoras and  seven fold ties. They all got that, but that was surface stuff. What they all received was was a sense of family when they walked through my door and that still carries through  today. They knew that and they appreciated that. Once we established our relationship  and became part of what I was doing there was no going back.


----------



## Coyote

Connery - that is a fascinating bit of insight.  I have never thought of customer care in how I present myself (other than as myself) - or what person they might prefer to see.  Very interesting 

Pretty much...I focus on trying to be the one that can solve their problems and reduce their stress because in the end - it's usually the red-tape runaround that is so stressful and if I can cut that is what I do.


----------



## oldfart

Connery said:


> As a cop and lawyer my parameters were always  well defined and the problems solving on a graduated scale. As a business owner "customer care " took on a whole different meaning where there was a great deal of flexibility and I was the "rainmanker" generating clients building relationships which would generate revenue and building a team that would service those clients and building relationships with the families of both clients and employees. This is where a philosophical approach helped a great deal. I need to establish the identity of the business, have that model fit in with a vast array of cultures depending on what industry the client was generated from and have staff understand the differences. For example, my longshoremen clients wanted   the "Bronx" guy, the football players wanted leadership/coaching style, the models wanted my french cuffs, fedoras and  seven fold ties. They all got that, but that was surface stuff. What they all received was was a sense of family when they walked through my door and that still carries through  today. They knew that and they appreciated that. Once we established our relationship  and became part of what I was doing there was no going back.



I don't know what area of law you were involved in, but mine is a tax practice.  Generally I am in either of two situations, meeting the client or representing them with the IRS (sometimes with the client present but more often without).  Many of my clients start out scared shitless of the IRS or mad as hell at the government.  Like you, I am the rainmaker, but in two different senses.  First, I get referrals from a lot of places and have to screen clients.  We bail on about a third of engagements, because I don't want to waste client's time and money if I can't do anything for them.  Some are lost causes, and others I can advise how to get the job done for free (I dislike predatory practitioners and God knows there are enough out there).  Secondly, our tax, accounting, and payroll divisions pay the bills and our largest and most loyal clients stay with us because of our success in past representations.  

The key thing IMHO is to hear the client out before saying anything about what you can do for them.  A lot are too rattled to note what year is in question.  The more you know before committing yourself to an analysis, the better your advice will be.  

Playing to the peanut gallery rarely works, especially when dealing with the IRS or IRS counsel in Tax Court cases.  As much as clients want a big shot representing them, doing so effectively and professionally is a better play.  At the end of the day, I'm not much concerned about how my "client service" is perceived.  If I do the job the way I know works best, I get better outcomes.  Abraham Lincoln once advised a young lawyer to never put off what could be accomplished today on a case, and not to accept fees before the work can be fairly started.  I can't improve on that much.


----------



## Moonglow

When I have had interactions of customer service in masonry contracting, the customer likes to know that you are knowledgeable of the trade and have their concerns as yours. I also have to negotiate prices. i have always used the idea that I give fair prices and fast service to complete the work....


----------



## Unkotare

I've found dealing with masonry contractors is like talking to a brick wall.


----------



## Abishai100

*ATM Note*

The issue of customer care has been afforded new symbolic significance in our time of mercantilism-catalyzed globalization (i.e., eTrade).

When I walk into a business owned by an ethnic minority, and if I notice that the owners/managers do not speak English perfectly, I think about general modern age multi-culturalism social contracts regarding goods exchange.

You know, that timelessly entertaining board game "Monopoly" (Parker Brothers), which requires players to compete in a real-estate speculation scenario, has been developed into a popular iPhone video game app and is really representative of today's interest in mercantilism/shopping 'couture.'

It seems that customer care is now as important socially as environmental issues.  This, incidentally, explains the sudden rise in popularity (and sales) of eco-avatar themed comic book stories about Poison Ivy (DC Comics), a diabolical eco-terrorist.

What is man's contract with that darned ATM?




Monopoly video games - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Moonglow




----------

