# Top 4 Obamacare Complaints



## Yurt (Oct 21, 2013)

Complaint #1: I can't log in

Complaint #2: My info's not right

Complaint #3: The costs are too high

Complaint #4: My employer is raising my premiums because of Obamacare

Top 4 Obamacare Complaints - Yahoo Finance


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## ScreamingEagle (Oct 21, 2013)

> One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> 
> "Obamacare is a nightmare for my family," she wrote.



an example of how the middle class is being destroyed by Obama and his marxist redistribution program....


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:

1.  Our premiums have been increased by about 38%.

2.  Our deductibles and copays have been roughy doubled.

3.  Numerous things that were once covered no longer are.  Absolutely nothing that wasn't covered before has been added.

4.  Because so many clinics, hospitals, and doctors offices are being forced to lay off staff, there is less sanitation, waits for service are far longer, and there is increased consolidation that is not to the patient's advantage.

5.  My hubbie's doctor that he dearly loves is taking early retirement because he can no longer stomach the mountain of increased red tape, restrictions, and stupid rules imposed by Obamacare.  And this is happening more and more.  Among the 10 different specialists that my elderly aunt and uncle are seeing for numerous medical problems, one--count him ONE--is American born.

6.  And on top of the government website woes, there is this in the small print:   privacy of personal and medical information cannot be guaranteed.

But this is the greatest thing to happen in America since sliced bread, yes?


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## Katzndogz (Oct 21, 2013)

ScreamingEagle said:


> > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> >
> > "Obamacare is a nightmare for my family," she wrote.
> 
> ...



obama will say that because this woman has to pay a little bit more, an illegal will be able to get completely subsidized health care.

It will work out.  When people like this woman pay so much in taxes, fees and charges that she can no longer support herself, much less her family she will qualify for her own EBT card, her own subsidized housing and an obamaphone.  She will be another government dependent.


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## ba1614 (Oct 21, 2013)

You folks must Lyin' I heard Obama himself say folks like it, it was saving people money, offering deductibles as cheap as a cable bill, and are signing up in big numbers.


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## Sarah G (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Complaint #5:  Yurt is a chronic complainer...


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## protectionist (Oct 21, 2013)

ScreamingEagle said:


> > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> >
> > "Obamacare is a nightmare for my family," she wrote.
> 
> ...



I kind of don't believe these sob stories.  They just don't sound credible. They do sound contrived.


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## ba1614 (Oct 21, 2013)

protectionist said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
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> > > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> ...



Most of the useful know at least someone in the same position. Personally I know a few because we are for the most part the unwashed non-union middle class, the ones taking most of it on the chin


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## Claudette (Oct 21, 2013)

ba1614 said:


> You folks must Lyin' I heard Obama himself say folks like it, it was saving people money, offering deductibles as cheap as a cable bill, and are signing up in big numbers.



Of course they are lying. 

Just like the guys with the $13,999.00 and $11,000.00 dollars deductables are liars. 

The ACA is a disaster. Wait till everyone gets a load of what this Affordable Care Act is gonna cost. Good Gawd.


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## g5000 (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #4: My employer is raising my premiums because of Obamacare



Before ObamaCare, what was the excuse of employers for raising your premiums year after  year after year after year?


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## g5000 (Oct 21, 2013)

Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.

But let's not pretend they haven't been rising for decades.

The GOP decided inaction was the best course.

So you were fucked no matter what, folks.  Don't be angry at just one of them.  Be angry at both.


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## Mac1958 (Oct 21, 2013)

.

Don't forget the two primary responses to losing coverage, paying more, or any other issues with ACA:

1. I don't believe you, or
2.  Tough shit

.


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## Sallow (Oct 21, 2013)

ScreamingEagle said:


> > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> >
> > "Obamacare is a nightmare for my family," she wrote.
> 
> ...



Do tell.

What about the ACA is "marxist".

Include some proof as well..in the form of links.

Thanks in advance.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Yurt said:
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> > Complaint #4: My employer is raising my premiums because of Obamacare
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My employer didn't raise my premiums year after year after year.  In fact, a couple of years ago my premium actually slightly decreased.  

Next year, however, they are going up 15.2% across the board at my company.


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## ClosedCaption (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> 
> 1.  Our premiums have been increased by about 38%.
> 
> ...



I'm sure there were people who didn't like sliced bread too.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


> Do tell.
> 
> What about the ACA is "marxist".
> 
> ...



It's a redistribution of wealth from young to old.


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## DGS49 (Oct 21, 2013)

I get my insurance through my wife, who works for a very large bank.  She pays a surcharge because I COULD get it through my employer.

Our out-of-pocket deductible (max) went from $1,000 to $9,000.  Premiums went up about 25%.

I have had a lot of "minor" medical issues over the past three years (melanoma, parathyroid, lumpectomy, broken fingers requiring reconstruction, etc)  If our experience continues - and I hope it doesn't - this will result in an increase of out of pocket medical costs of a couple thousand dollars a year.  Good think we are "healthy."

Anyone who believed that they could (a) take everyone with a pre-existing condition without charging them anything extra, and (b) cover 40 million uninsured (a bullshit number, but whatever), without everyone else paying more, was an idiot.

Er, I mean, a DEMOCRAT.

And did I forget to mention, Bush43 was a LIAR!

Right.


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## Sallow (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Yurt said:
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> > Complaint #4: My employer is raising my premiums because of Obamacare
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At my former employer, during my 13 years, we changed health care providers 7 times. Each change saw a raising premium, bigger deductible and less services.

There was no ObamaCare back then..


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## TemplarKormac (Oct 21, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Yurt said:
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> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
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I wonder. Have you tried signing up for Obamacare yet? I bet you'll be mumbling under your breath soon after.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
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> > > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> ...



It is Marxist because it exists on the concept that the haves according to their means will provide for the have nots according to their needs.


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## g5000 (Oct 21, 2013)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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Personal anecdotes aren't worth shit.

Here's the facts:




> The cost of providing health care benefits to employees rose by just 4.1% this year, the smallest increase in 15 years, according to a survey by human resources consultant Mercer.
> 
> And employers are expecting to see another modest increase of 5% next year, the survey of 2,800 companies found. That's a far cry from the beginning of the decade, when employers reported* increases of 10% to nearly 15% a year*. Last year, benefit costs rose by 6.1%.



Health insurance premiums see smallest increase in 15 years - Nov. 14, 2012


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## g5000 (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


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And that was the experience of most Americans who had employer-sponsored health insurance.

The GOP decided that was okay.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


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I can only speak for my own situation, not others, and what I told you is also a fact.


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## Sallow (Oct 21, 2013)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Sallow said:
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> > Do tell.
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You probably first need to understand exactly what Marxism is before commenting.


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## g5000 (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
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> > > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> ...


Let's see...

1) To access an insurance company, many people now have to go through a government gatekeeper.

2) To be able to sell insurance to those people, the insurance provider cannot provide the customer with a wide range of options they can afford.  They must provide what the government tells them to provide at a cost the goverment says they can charge.

3) If an insurance company makes more than the government feels they deserve to make, they have to return that money to their customers.

4) The government is forcing you to buy insurance or pay a fine.



Sallow said:


> Thanks in advance.


You're welcome.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Sallow said:
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And what exactly is it they should have done?  When has the government interfering in the market ever benefited anyone?  Nine times out of ten they make shit worse than it already is, like we're seeing with ObamaCare.  It was government interference in the health care market that caused the rising costs in the first place over the past 30 years.  The free market in the health care industry was virtually obliterated years ago and now there is no cost containment.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


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I know exactly what Marxism is.  I'm a highly educated man.  I also realize you are a supporter of it.


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## TemplarKormac (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


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Gee golly, I may just have to rep you for this post, g5!


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## Yurt (Oct 21, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Yurt said:
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> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
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nice, whine about me and ignore the thread topic, which btw...i did not write


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> g5000 said:
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Also, the article is almost a year old and is testimony that had the government left insurance alone, we could be better of without Obamacare.  However, the money paragraphs in that article are these:



> But the more modest increases aren't because doctors or insurers are charging less. Faced with the 2014 implementation of health care reform, employers are making a greater effort to control their costs by shifting more of the expense and risk on to their employees.
> 
> Increasingly, employers are offering plans that charge significantly lower premiums but require employees to cover more out-of-pocket costs like higher deductibles. These consumer-directed health plans, or CDHPs, carry premiums that are about 20% less than other types of plans, making them much more affordable for employers, Mercer said


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

And is anybody else picking up on the fact that the Obama worshippers are simply beside themselves that the personal testimonies some of us are giving here might soil the shining symbol of what the Obama Administration is all about--socialized medicine among other things?   Why else would they accuse us of lying?


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## Sallow (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


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That's a pretty unique take.

So basically what you are saying, if we can use this "definition" as a standard..

Is that every single form of government is "Marxist".

Well except Anarchy.

Because to a large extent, every government does this..through taxation.

However, Marxism, in it's classical form doesn't really need to do this because it doesn't need to engage in taxation.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> 
> 1.  Our premiums have been increased by about 38%.
> 
> ...


After 33 years as a family physician, our family doctor left the industry. 
He told me the main reason was all the complexities of Obamacare.
As of yet, we have no seen anything from my wife's employer regarding changes to the medical insurance. 
If we get through the current enrollment period unscathed, that is one more year of affordable insurance. What the future holds is a mystery.


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## Claudette (Oct 21, 2013)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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My premium went up this year. Not much but up. 

In 2015 anything you pay for your HC coverage will be considered income and will be taxable. 

Premiums will go up across the board.

Looks like those with hc coverage are going to be gouged to pay for those without. 

Oh wait. I forgot. Its a tax. Never mind.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

Claudette said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
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Yes, Obamacare will likely go down in history as the largest single tax ever imposed on the American people.  And they can no longer deny it is a tax because they had to argue that it was one in order to get the Supreme Court to say that Obamacare is legal.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Yurt said:
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> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
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Why don't you address the issue at hand? Is it because it is easier to dismiss it because the problems with the Obamacare mess fall outside the narrative?
The only people who benefit from this are those who will get it for next to nothing....off the backs of the taxpayers....Bullshit..
If you think this battle is over, you should think again.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

The increase in our health insurance premiums would be pocket change for some of you guys, but for people on modest fixed retirement incomes like us, it is quite painful.  Most especially when we get a whole lot less healthcare for the dollar expended than we did before and we are losing the doctors that we most trusted.


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## g5000 (Oct 21, 2013)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


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The GOP should have put a plan on the table along these lines:

1. Raise the Medicare eligibility age to 70, and then index it to 9 percent of the population.  We are living decades longer than our ancestors, we should be working longer.

2. Get government OUT of the healthcare business as much as possible.  It is completely fucked up the government is in the healthcare business AND gets to write the rules affecting its private sector competitors.

3. Eliminate the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance.  Employer-sponsored health insurance bends the cost of healthcare up, and it should be discouraged as much as possible.


I should be buying my health insurance the same way I buy my auto, home, and life insurance.  If I lose my job, I don't automatically lose my auto, home, or life insurance.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

protectionist said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
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> > > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> ...



Nobody cares what you believe. The accounts are true and factual.
Tough shit.


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## Mustang (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...


 
Many conservatives will complain in lock step fashion about Obamacare based on little more than rumor and in  uendo. A good portion of these people aren't covered by any kind of healthcare or are paying exorbitant fees.

At some point, probably late at night, and probably cajoled by his wife who's the one who has to try to stretch the dollars every month, middle class conservatives are going to investigate the rates and plans for the first time on their own.  My strong bet is that they're going to find a significant savings over what they're paying now, OR they'll find that they can afford health insurance for the first time in years or maybe the first time in their lives.  That's when they'll face a decision as to whether to sign up or not. If they have at least as much sense as God gave a goat, they'll take advantage of something that will save them a lot of money (and maybe even their lives some day).

That's when they'll face another choice.  Do they tell people, or do they keep it a secret that they signed up?


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## tinydancer (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> 
> But let's not pretend they haven't been rising for decades.
> 
> ...



You are such a lying piece of shit. Not sure what to do about you yet.


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## ScreamingEagle (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


> Foxfyre said:
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Obamacare is just a part of the class struggle....notice how Obama in his speech today addressed the poor and needy....his proleteriat....

a socialist order is the goal....with communism ultimately replacing capitalism....Obama's goal is to take healthcare out of the free market and place it under Government control.....


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Yurt said:
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> > Complaint #4: My employer is raising my premiums because of Obamacare
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The cost of risk....
And that is a lie. Our insurance premiums never rose on a yearly basis. EVER.
That is not to say that in some occasions periodic increases never occur.
It depends on the language of the policy and the carrier.


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## tinydancer (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Yurt said:
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Are you fucking insane?

Don't you understand that this crew has been fired by a very liberal government in Ontario?

These idiots are out of Montreal?


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


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This is true because in Marxism, in its classical form, the government confiscates ALL private property of every kind and redistributes it to the people as it chooses.  The whole basis of Marxism is based on the theory that if the wealth can be taken away from the wealthy, then all will be better off.   Everybody will own everything.

In our system, taxation is just a polite, politically correct, term for confiscating wealth from those who have it.

It long ago lost its intended purpose which was an equitable and least oppressive way to fund the necessary functions of government as specified in the Constitution.


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## Avatar4321 (Oct 21, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Sarah G said:
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Because she can't address the issue at hand. I've tried to engage her in countless issues and she cannot do it.

And no, the battle isn't over. Before to long the Dems will come back saying ACA didn't work, We need a single payer system AKA to outsource all responsibility for our health to the government.

After all, we all know this was designed to be a stepping stone and not the end product.


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## ba1614 (Oct 21, 2013)

tinydancer said:


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Was it the e-health debacle in Ontario or another of that goofy governments screw ups?


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## Avatar4321 (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Yurt said:
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Your strong bet? 

So we look at the facts and evidence and we should completely ignore that because of your strong bet that there are going to be savings? If we could wish savings into existence, im sure most of us would.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
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> > > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> ...


From each according to his abilities( those who earn over 400% of poverty...pay the entire cost) to each according to his needs( those who would be subsidized to the point where they almost pay nothing).
You're welcome.
Have you enrolled in ACA? NO? Then you can shut it.


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## Avatar4321 (Oct 21, 2013)

ScreamingEagle said:


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A class struggle between classes that don't exist.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

ClosedCaption said:


> Foxfyre said:
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THAT is your response?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> 
> But let's not pretend they haven't been rising for decades.
> 
> ...






They haven't.
Make an attempt to know what you're talking about.

.Year		*NHE 		Increase          

2001		1493		

2002		1638		9.7%

2003		1775		8.3%

2004		1901		7.0%

2005		2030		6.7%

2006		2163		6.5%

2007		2298		 6.2%

2008		2406		4.6%

2009		2501		3.9%

2010		2600		3.9%

2011		2700		3.8%

*National Health Expenditures, in $ billions.
http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/tables.pdf


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

ScreamingEagle said:


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Absolutely.  The most galling insult to intelligence is his saying that Obamacare is to take care of the poor and needy.  Bullshit.  The poor and needy were already covered quite well with healthcare that most of the world can only envy.   You are absolutely correct that the whole purpose of Obamacare is to put all of the people under the thumb of government.   And the Obama worshippers are just cheering him on.

On my Decline of the American Empire thread, I held out hope that this generation still had some power to stop the loss of all our liberties to an ever more authoritarian, even totalitarian, government.

I may have just been engaged in a fool's errand, however.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
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> > > One North Carolina reader was upset to learn her current $267 a month plan was being canceled and the cheapest option on the exchange would cost her family $750 a month. They don't qualify for a subsidy.
> ...





1. Here's your big chance to prove that your teachers were liars, and you are actually capable of learning:


2. *Obama wasn't the first Bolshevik to support socialized medicine. *For context, there was Henry Sigerist:
 "He devoted himself to the study of history of medicine. *Socialized Medicine in the Soviet Union (1937), *and History of Medicine were among his most important works. He emerged as a major spokesman for "compulsory health insurance". ...He attacked the American Medical Association because of his conflicting views on socialized medicine." Henry E. Sigerist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. And, Sigerist was one of the *apologists for Stalin,* including his state-engineered famine in the Ukraine. 7 million perished (The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33). 


b. Sigerist *"shared with the architects of Soviet health policy under Stalin an outlook best described as medical totalitarianism.* He really believed that humanity would be better off if every individual were under the medical supervision of the state from cradle to grave....[and] Sigerist's belief in the necessity for state control over all aspects of medicine ultimately made him an apologist for state control over most aspects of human life." 
 Fee and Brown, eds. "Making Medical History: The Life and Times of Henry E. Sigerist," p. 252

Does he sound just like a certain President??




"Include some proof as well..in the form of links."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEQCUgOxShc]BaZing! - YouTube[/ame]


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2013)

ClosedCaption said:


> Foxfyre said:
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What a stupid response.

Are you one of those 'reliable Democrat voters'?


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
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Too bad; 30 million benefit, and Yurt doesn't.  Sad.  But before we send aid to poor Yurt, let's do some investigation.

1.  Does Yurt live in a State where the Governor just said no to Obamacare?

2,  Does Yurt know how to make a telephone call?

3.  What did Yurt lose, how much did he pay and what were his benefits?

4.  Did Yurt push the tab "I'm having trouble logging in"

5.  Methinks Yurt is full of the digested food matter of a large bull.


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## ScreamingEagle (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Yurt said:
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> > Complaint #4: My employer is raising my premiums because of Obamacare
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haven't you noticed that almost EVERYTHING is going up.....?  especially since the left loves spending and printing money out of thin air...

healthcare is no exception....increases include higher prices of supplies/equipment, higher wages, government regulations, anticipation of future costs, too much 'emergency' care, illegals, malpractice suits/insurance, cutting edge technology, and so forth...

Obamacare is the expensive fat cherry on top....no actually it's a whole new sundae that must be paid for by the same people who are paying for the first expensive one....

Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are going broke......and we suddenly can afford a new Entitlement Program......?


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Yurt said:
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Oh, no....another 'reliable Democrat voter.'


And, the promise to insure all Americans? According to the CBO, in 2015 there will be 36 million uninsured nonelderly Americans. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43472-07-24-2012-CoverageEstimates.pdf (table 3)


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


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That's not what the OP claimed...The OP stated the SAME insurer increased premiums in successive years.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

Posted by a shirttail relative this morning.  It would be funnier if there weren't so many kernals of truth included in it:



> I wanted to let you know that earlier today I received my "Obamacare enrollment packet from the White House.
> 
> It contained:
> · An aspirin and a band-aid.
> ...


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## Mustang (Oct 21, 2013)

ScreamingEagle said:


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The cold war is over, dude.

Alas, it sometimes seems as if the bigger threat to America since the Soviet Union went belly up is a resurgence of fascism all over the word. 

Including here in the good ol' boy USA.


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


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Bulloney, the poor and uninsured receive *emergency room care* at public and private hospitals.  Private hospitals charged the care under costs determined by Chargemaster, with no insurance company or Medicare watchdog, the costs were highly inflated.  When stable the patient was transferred to a county/public hospital on the local taxpayers dime and the for profit or non profit hospital charged off inflated fees to off-set their bottom line.


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



*Then come up with a solution because when my spouse had cancer:

1.  I couldn't get the insurance company to confirm diagnosis, therefore no chemo.

2.  The oncologist told us he would take our insurance and then said he wouldn't.

3.  We were hit with secondary and tertiary physican's bills who were not in our network.

4.  The insurance company, Empire Blue, didn't pay the bills for over six months so we were getting dunned by the doc's office.

5.  The final bill for my spouse's care came to $1,300,000.00 for three years.

So shut the fuck up or come up with a better plan than this.  

Oh, and let me add that this insurance was through a major Ivy League university where my spouse worked....Not Podunk, AL.*


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...



Please name the poor who were ineligible to be insured under Medicaid prior to Obamacare.  Take your time.  I'll wait.

Now admittedly Obamacare has mandated that more affluent people now be qualified for Medicaid which is why some 26 states have opted out of that system altogether and the Supreme Court agreed with them that they could.

If government had stayed out of healthcare altogether in the first place, however, I'm pretty sure the insurance companies would be offering affordable insurance packages to the people.  They would have to in order to stay in business.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Sallow said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Oh please. Using a simplistic rebuttal to support your point of view gets you nowhere.
Using that as an explanation is the same as 'well, why not, we have it in other things too'...Yeah, and few of those work either. Name one thing government does 'for' us that operates within budget, is done on time and works efficiently....
Umm, the theme to Final Jeopardy lasts just 30 seconds. That's all the time you'll get. because any more time means you had to think up an answer. Which means whatever your reply, it is nonsense.


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 21, 2013)

*Secondly, when I gratefully declined COBRA after my spouse died from the ever so fuck-you-very-much Empire Blue because they wanted to charge me $650 and I had virtually NO medical problems except for seasonal allergies, I applied for other insurance and was declined because:

Three allergy meds prescribed in the last 8 years and the limit was 2.

So STFU, Yurtie.  

The old system IS BROKEN sort of like your brain.  

And your post needs some links for verification, otherwise is just more bullshit.  *


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 21, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



*Please, enough with the stupid constant communism/Marxist bullshit.  The fix is in, and it's a plutocracy with 535 servants inside the Beltway running the lives of 300,000,000 people.  *


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## Rebelitarian (Oct 21, 2013)

It is designed to raise costs and to kill the US economy.

Just like everything every Globalist puppet President has ever done.

Just like offshoring and outsourcing under Bush and Clinton... as well as NAFTA and GATT, all parts of the big Globalist plans to destroy America.

Thank you to all the Americans that voted stupidly for these candidates and their America destroying Globalist policies.

May you enjoy your future stay at a FEMA Camp.

Police State 4:  The Rise of FEMA

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klqv9t1zVww]Police State 4: The Rise of FEMA Full Length - YouTube[/ame]


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



" rumor and in  uendo."
" My strong bet "..
In other words ,you are an avowed marxist/leninist who really is just talking shit because ACA fits right into your agenda.


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## ScreamingEagle (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



communism/socialism is not a cold war dude.....it's an idea.....and fascism is part of it....

leftism is an idea that the progressives have been slowly implementing over the decades.....Obamacare is simply the most recent manifestation of it.....

much more of this shit and the good ol' USA is going to disappear...


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## Mustang (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...


 
It will be interesting to see how much that free preventive care will ultimately save everyone (both patients and insurance companies alike) if and when people seek out treatment before conditions become chronic and potentially very costly which is what usually happens when people don't have insurance.


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## RoadVirus (Oct 21, 2013)

I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".

Translation: We're dropping you and now you get to be part of the worst piece of domestic legislation in America's history.

I was paying $400 a year with this Insurance company. I wonder how much more i'll be forced to pay when i get signed up for Boondogglecare (if i can ever access the fucked-up website).


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 21, 2013)

*One final note on what I wrote above and love me, hate me, whatever....just read this carefully: regardless of if you get insurance through ACA or private:  

If you or yours gets major cancer, do not, and I mean DO NOT sign up with any local onco group or small hospital staffed by docs from private practice, etc.  

Head for the major centers, specifically Sloan Kettering in NY, Johns Hopkins in B'more, MD Anderson in Houston, Mayo Clinic for example, because your billing will be handled through that hospital and the docs and specialists and ancillary services,,  and the billing to the insurance will come from one "in network" source.

And you will get better care and a better chance of surviving.

*


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## Amelia (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...




Were pre-retirement-age adults without children eligible for Medicaid?  In every state?


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## Pop23 (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Good news yurt

Starting January 1, the government has declared that only they will be allowed to determine what a nightmare is. 

That's gotta ease your mind!


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 21, 2013)

RoadVirus said:


> I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".
> 
> Translation: We're dropping you and now you get to be part of the worst piece of domestic legislation in America's history.
> 
> *I was paying $400 a year* with this Insurance company. .....



*Oh cry me a river.....*


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...




You're serious?  Wow, how many liters of Kool-Aid  do you consume daily.


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 21, 2013)

Rebelitarian said:


> It is designed to raise costs and to kill the US economy.
> 
> Just like everything every Globalist puppet President has ever done.
> 
> ...



*Your tin foil hat is just a little too tight.*


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## Mustang (Oct 21, 2013)

ScreamingEagle said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...


 
Let me know if you want to give up your 40 hour work week and your paid vactions and all those other progressive gains you likely take for granted.

If you want to work 12 hours a day six days a week, well just say so. No doubt, there are plenty of corporations who would willingly take you under those conditions. And the whole 'Bring Your Child to Work Day' would take on entirely new significance since they might just get hired on the spot.  No need for skool and all that book lernin when you can all car pool to work together.  Matter of fact, no doubt you could live right on the premises in a nice barracks the company could set up fer you.  And you kin shop at the company store an' everythang.

Best not be caught readin' any Steinbeck, though.


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## MeBelle (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> > My employer didn't raise my premiums year after year after year.
> ...





NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



Sorry, your story doesn't count, according to g5000


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## deltex1 (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...




No one is more upset than Obabble....hissef.


He be one pissed off neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegro.


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 21, 2013)

Pop23 said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...


*
All we had to do was use Canada's system as a model.  Try taking their health care away from them.  Pry it out of their cold, dead hands.  Not going to happen.

So supposedly we used Romney's system from Massachusetts.  Except somewhere along the way it got driven into a ditch by the fucking Republicans.  

And oh yeah, ask your average resident of Massachusetts if THEY want to get rid of their health care system....Just try.  *


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> > I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".
> ...



$400 a year?  LMAO, what did it cover and what were it's limits.  I think you're one more lying SOB.

I pay $306.66 each month and my former employer pays $945.58 per month, our combined premium is $1,252.24.  There is no limit in the cost of my care; I pay $10 co-pay and $10 for drugs.  Preventative services are free (annual physical, screening for colon cancer, etc.).


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## Amelia (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...




Is the red your response to Foxfyre's post?  It's confusing.  

I don't think all poor people were eligible for Medicaid before ACA.  However, I don't think all poor people 18 and 65 were ineligible either.  Some states accepted more people into the program, some less, but it's definitely been for people of pre-retirement-age.  Sounds like you might be confusing Medicaid with Medicare.


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## deltex1 (Oct 21, 2013)

Reagan was "the Gipper".  Obabble is "the Glitcher".


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## ScreamingEagle (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...



what do you mean a "40 hour work week".....?  you're living in the past...

things are 'progressing' don'cha know.......now it's a 29 hour work week....

so to afford anything you got to get 2 jobs.....and the 'progressive' State wants its grimy hands on your kids at the earliest they can get them...


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

RoadVirus said:


> I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".
> 
> Translation: We're dropping you and now you get to be part of the worst piece of domestic legislation in America's history.
> 
> I was paying $400 a year with this Insurance company. I wonder how much more i'll be forced to pay when i get signed up for Boondogglecare (if i can ever access the fucked-up website).



If nothing else in the world could persuade Obama worshippers of the folly of this boondoggle, that 'fucked up' website should.  The government has had four years and has spent hundreds and hundreds of our tax dollars (or passed the bill on to our grandchildren) to create a website that would allow Obamacare to work.  And it has been a total disaster.

Four years.  Hundreds of millions of dollars.  And they couldn't produce a product that would work.  But you same people want the same government to have whatever control over our healthcare that it chooses to have.  And believes every P.R. lie they put out there for the gullible to gobble up despite:
     Obama said
-- it would save tax dollars.  (Fact:  it will cost mega billions if not trillions more.)

--  If we like our current healthcare plan we can keep it. (Fact:  millions are losing their healthcare coverage and are being forced to go without or use the government exchange.)

--  If we like our doctor we can keep him.  (Fact:   my husband and I have both lost our primary physicians purely due to Obamacare.)

--- Premiums for the young and healthy will go up a bit - will go down for most Americans.  (Fact:  that is true for some living in California or New York State.  Almost everywhere else a lot of people, including those of us on fixed incomes, are seeing huge increase in our premiums.)

We have been lied to again and again and again, and yet the Obama worshippers keep waving their flags and dutifully chirping the assigned talking points.

It is mind boggling.



> October 21, 2013 2:14 pm
> 
> NBC&#8217;s Chuck Todd bluntly asked White House spokesman Jay Carney Monday who &#8220;misled&#8221; President Obama by letting him make promises about the Obamacare website that it has been simply unable to meet.
> 
> ...


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## Yurt (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



and yet many canadians come to the US for healthcare

facts, learn them


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## francoHFW (Oct 21, 2013)

O-care hasn't started yet- now your insurance is no longer a scam- it's guaranteed, so some may go up.

Call the 800 number if you're freaked- try again in a month otherwise, and relax...


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## Mustang (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> > Pop23 said:
> ...


 
And Americans flock to both Canada and Mexico for prescription drugs and medical care. In fact, a few years ago a conservate radio host was running ads on his show for medical and/or dental care in some country in Europe.  I think it may have been Hungary, but I don't remember exactly.

The fact is that people with money will fly almost anywhere to get the care they want if it's for the right price, or to get treatment that's not approved or available in their own country, or to see a particular doctor who's well regarded in his particular field.

And, if abortion is ever outlawed in this country, I can assure you that wealthy women will fly to Canada or Europe where they can get one.


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## Annie (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...



It's Marxist in concept, though the have nots would be truly screwed if they sign up for Bronze plan. Huge deductibles for those least able to pay. Huge co-pays and little if any coverage for meds. After deductible pays 1/2 of medical costs. 

For the truly poor, they get medicaid-which most docs will no longer accept. 

So, it's a lose/lose for everyone and more of the economy will be destroyed.


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## Mustang (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...


 
What do you think insurance does?  If you're against the concept of a collective, pay for your own heart surgery or cancer treatments out of your own pocket instead of expecting someone else to pay for it when you put in a claim.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I read an accounting of a story in my local rag( lib newspaper) that told of a woman who has no job and because of this she was ineligible for ACA or Medicaid.
That one left me scratching my head.


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## The2ndAmendment (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...





NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> *Koch-sucking sluts.*



Why do you hate women so?


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...



Most people are unaware of the built in charges for the purpose of treating indigent patients.
Obamacare does nothing to address this, nor does it address the over 10 million that will be left uninsured....
Obamacare increases the possibility of medical facilities having to treat indigent patients.


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## Pop23 (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



See, how easy that was!

Just let everybody determine YOUR nightmare for you. Why didn't we think of this centuries ago!

Oh wait, we did.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 21, 2013)

Annie said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Well, we know that people in general are screwed under Marxist concepts regardless of the socioeconomic factor being considered.  The wealthier will flee to more sensible climes if they can, but if they cannot and they are stripped of their property and means of production, they can longer provide opportunity for anybody else.  And as the poor never could provide opportunity for anybody other than self-serving politicians and bureaucrats, the poor will become poorer and the culture will no longer be comducive to anybody escaping poverty.   The lucky ones will escape to other countries.  Most won't.

The Obama worshippers simply cannot bring themselves to understand or embrace free market principles.  And they close their eyes and shut off their minds to the fact that if Obamacare indeed sucks as badly next year and beyond as it does now, they will have nowhere else to go because the free market for healthcare will have been destroyed.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...


Did you read the language of your policy regarding coverage limits? Or did you assume the policy was open ended?
Did you ask WHY the oncologist reversed himself? Why did you not find another oncologist that would accept your carrier?

Do you think ACA is an on demand supplier of medical insurance for ANY and ALL care?
Think again....
Obamacare is not a panacea. There is just as much, if not more bureaucracy and gate keeping as now. 
Go read the parts of the ACA law regarding "The Secretary"( Of Health and Human Services)...That office and the bureaucrats appointed to administer ACA have absolute authority over care, expense, type of care and who receives care.
Every single alternative idea the GOP presented was shot down by the democrats.
Especially those proposals where competition across state lines among insurers was suggested. 
The bottom line is they (Obama and the democrat leadership) wanted their Obamacare. not because the law would serve the people, but because they wanted a big win.


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## Sarah G (Oct 21, 2013)

> COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The state Controlling Board appeared poised Monday to grant a request from Gov. John Kasichs administration to appropriate the money that would pay to expand Medicaid to cover Ohios working poor.
> 
> Follow Robert Higgs' coverage of the meeting live in the comments section »
> 
> ...



Looks like Kasich came to his senses...


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## Yurt (Oct 21, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> > COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The state Controlling Board appeared poised Monday to grant a request from Gov. John Kasichs administration to appropriate the money that would pay to expand Medicaid to cover Ohios working poor.
> >
> > Follow Robert Higgs' coverage of the meeting live in the comments section »
> >
> ...



and that is exactly why obamacare is useless.  we need to do this, not obamacare.


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## Yurt (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



my solution all along has been to expand medicare.  

if you weren't such a moronic hack you would have realized this.  

how embarrassing for you.


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## francoHFW (Oct 21, 2013)

You're ALREADY paying for the uninsured's care, dingbat brainwashed, just in the stupidest, most expensive way possible- ER care, with no doctor or preventive care, 750k bankruptcies, insurance scams, and 45k dead a year. Pub dupes...ALL fixed under O-care.


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## Yurt (Oct 21, 2013)

obamacare is useless and doesn't address the healthcare issues in this country, it is simply a gift from obama to insurance companies

it is a sham, nothing more


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## Sarah G (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > > COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The state Controlling Board appeared poised Monday to grant a request from Gov. John Kasichs administration to appropriate the money that would pay to expand Medicaid to cover Ohios working poor.
> ...



Please, inform yourself..



>  The Federal Government pays 100% of expansion costs for the first three years and 90% thereafter until 2022.
> 
>  Many State's have shown that Expanding Medicaid actually raises money for the State.
> 
> ...


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## Pop23 (Oct 21, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> You're ALREADY paying for the uninsured's care, dingbat brainwashed, just in the stupidest, most expensive way possible- ER care, with no doctor or preventive care, 750k bankruptcies, insurance scams, and 45k dead a year. Pub dupes...ALL fixed under O-care.



And nothing changes, we still pay for the poor

And that's progress


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## Yurt (Oct 21, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



what does that have to do with my post?  how exactly does obamacare help americans vs. expanding medicare?


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## Politico (Oct 21, 2013)

Look everyone needs to quit whining. In order for these other folks to get covered the rest of you are going to have to take one for the team.


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 21, 2013)

Amelia said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



You're correct, I misread Medicaid for Medicare; in CA Medicaid is known as Medi-Cal; however, not everyone is Medi-Cal/Medicaid eligible, it is means tested and every state has their own standards.  And it seems Millions of Americans who could not get health insurance before the ACA are able to now.

Yes, my responses in red are my answers to Foxfyre's post.


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## Jarlaxle (Oct 21, 2013)

My wife is facing a potential catastrophe.  All three doctors (GP, ob-gyn, orthopedist) she sees regularly are getting out...one is going concierge, two are retiring.  Her employer will no longer be allowed to offer the health plan they have...for the moment, it's not a problem, because she is covered by my health plan.  Of course, that may ALSO disappear.

Might be time to think about going full-on parasite soon.


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## Sarah G (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Medicaid is now expanded to working poor in the states where the governor has applied for it.  Also, seniors could never get medicaid until they were 65 but now that may be possible thus providing coverage for those who retire early but aren't old enough for Medicare.

Some R governors are refusing to apply for expanded Medicaid just to break Obamacare but they're playing games with the uninsured in their states.


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## Meister (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> 
> 1.  Our premiums have been increased by about 38%.
> 
> ...



Where did greenbeard go?  Hasn't been here since early Oct. He had all the canned answers for this debacle


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## Jarlaxle (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> > RoadVirus said:
> ...



Sounds like he had a high-deductible catastrophic-care plan.  Honestly, I wish I could get that...it's all I want.


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 21, 2013)

Jarlaxle said:


> My wife is facing a potential catastrophe.  All three doctors (GP, ob-gyn, orthopedist) she sees regularly are getting out...one is going concierge, two are retiring.  Her employer will no longer be allowed to offer the health plan they have...for the moment, it's not a problem, because she is covered by my health plan.  Of course, that may ALSO disappear.
> 
> Might be time to think about going full-on parasite soon.



Good idea??  Why not save more, cancel your auto insurance and with your savings on both types of insurance you can buy top shelf scotch, not worry about your health and drink and drive.


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## emilynghiem (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> 
> But let's not pretend they haven't been rising for decades.
> 
> ...



Hi g5000
Then agree what the options and reforms are BEFORE passing a mandate
Requiring we buy private insurance for coverage we dont agree how to assess its effect

One party passed and pushed a bill while the other said no not in this format
Who said you couldnt resolve conflicts or add open options to it
Where ppl could pursue other solutions instead of fining them

If you believe in the aca passed as is then pay for it
Not others who are still pushing better ideas

if you issue cars on the road that have problems
You are still responsible for the ones you issue
Dont approve them and expect other ppl to pay
For the wrecks when they disapproved. yes you
Can say we need something now, not later,
But you are still responsible for what you mandated now.

Should have been given equal choices so
Ppl are equally responsible for which ones they funded

whatever happened to no means no
If ppl dont agree to a business contract to buy
Private insurance how can congress or anyone
Sign ppl name to such a contract and expect them to pay

Insurance is not the same as paying for health care services

How hard is it to let this aca work for those who support and believe
In it while respecting equal protection of other ppl free choice
Of health care reforms and provisions. Why force it on ppl who said no.
Isnt that making the problem worse by adding another fight distraction and cost.


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## Freewill (Oct 21, 2013)

My story, premiums did increase year after year and benefits were reduced but still health care was affordable.

If I retire I will get one year of group coverage at a higher cost with my company.

After 2014 the company has changed what was promised me and is throwing me on Obamacare.  My friend went through the process to see how much it will cost him if he retires onto Obamacare, 13000 per year with no subsidies not nothing.  Once again the working class is punished for what....working.  The supplied side is winning and will destroy the country.


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## emilynghiem (Oct 21, 2013)

Politico said:


> Look everyone needs to quit whining. In order for these other folks to get covered the rest of you are going to have to take one for the team.



But under what system. Why not let ppl fund
The charity pool or system of choice.

Thats one thing to set a goal of covering more ppl.
But to impose mandates and restrictions that preclude
Choices which could cover everyone, thats just abusive.


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## Vox (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> > RoadVirus said:
> ...



you can say bye-bye to your plan in 2018, as excise tax will kick in


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## Vox (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > My wife is facing a potential catastrophe.  All three doctors (GP, ob-gyn, orthopedist) she sees regularly are getting out...one is going concierge, two are retiring.  Her employer will no longer be allowed to offer the health plan they have...for the moment, it's not a problem, because she is covered by my health plan.  Of course, that may ALSO disappear.
> ...



ha, you don't want your taxes to support him being in 47% ( with obamacare more than 55%)?


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## Vox (Oct 21, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Amelia said:
> ...



what a bunch of baloney  if you not 65, you are not a senior and one is getting on medicaid if one qualifies for it by income level, not by age - for the 2013 FPL is 11,400$ for a single. so anybody at that level of income and before 65 always could got the medicaid - expanded or not ( some states adjusted the income levels)


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## emilynghiem (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Amelia said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Thanks WC if this plan works so well then why dont supporters
Agree to carry it themselves by buying insurance under it.

Thats like saying more ppl can buy cars if everyone chipped in extra.
But what if some are using their extra money to buy houses for ppl.
Or education for others. And those ppl have some other way to donate cars
Instead of using your way. Why not let them use their way and you
Use yours, and you both cover ppl in your state or network.

Let all ppl cover parts of social outreach
And business or charity investment they want to fund.
So everyone is happy respected and rewarded for their part.

Why this insistence in imposing just one way or get fined.

What if religious groups did that with medical charity and
Made evrryone pay and go thru their system instead of your
Own church or school that yoy believe in funding developing 
And serving thru. But instead your donations and business plans
Are punished as excluded and you are required to pay that into some
Other religious church network run by govt that happened
To get majority rule vote to impose their plan as the only legal choice.
Wouldnt you be arguing for free choice to invest in health
Care for the community and public without being penalized and restricted because
Its not counted in the govt plan as an option.


----------



## Meister (Oct 21, 2013)

No one has really addressed the 800 pound gorilla in the room.  This isn't about healthcare nor is it about healthcare insurance.  This is about the government taking over 6% of the GDP.  It's a power play by the government to begin the change in direction of America.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



You got that crap from the Obamacare cheerleader website?
Please..
We were also told we'd all save $2500 per year. That ACA would cost less than $1 trillion. That we'd all be able to keep our current insurance. That we'd all be able to keep seeing our current doctors. That all 40 million uninsured would be covered.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I am allergic to bullshit.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Oct 21, 2013)

Meister said:


> No one has really addressed the 800 pound gorilla in the room.  This isn't about healthcare nor is it about healthcare insurance.  This is about the government taking over 6% of the GDP.  It's a power play by the government to begin the change in direction of America.



Explain, if you can, how the Government is taking over 6% of the GDP.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Did you just type the word "free"?....Yer kidding, right?


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Just curious - Why is everyone posting ObamaCare threads everywhere EXCEPT the ObamaCare forum?


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> > I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".
> ...



Asshole...
Just goes to show all you fucking libs care about it "YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY WE WON!"
This Obamanation is going to wreck this country.


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## Amelia (Oct 21, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...




Read the Obamacare forum guidelines.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
> 
> 
> > Mustang said:
> ...


Spare us the "unions are God" bullshit.
Progressives would all have us crammed into urban centers like sardines. No freedom of mobility. Under constant watch of the central planning ruling elite class..


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## Londoner (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Good job comrade!

We must kill ObamaCare in the crib. We must propagandize the glitches and suppress the positives. Our hero, Vladimir Lenin, would do exactly the same.

Remember how we failed to kill Medicare? Remember how we spent years emphasizing and highlighting every problem? Remember how we exaggerated and distorted? Remember our Dear Leader, Ronald Reagan, who predicted that Medicare would lead to pure socialism by the end of LBJs term? Remember how hard we tried to kill it? We failed... and now our republican seniors love Medicare. 

We must not fail this time. We must kill ObamaCare no matter what it takes. We must exaggerate, distort and lie until our moronic underlings are convinced that Obma is coming to take grandma away ... so she can be reconditioned in a FEMA concentration camp. 

We must never under any circumstance report anything favorable. We must be strong comrade. 

Social Security and Medicare had twice as many glitches when they were launched, but we had no FOX News and no Rush Limbaugh to cultivate those failures into a revolution. We have the necessary tools this time. We can succeed comrade.

Keep fighting!


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## Jackson (Oct 21, 2013)

RoadVirus said:


> I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".
> 
> Translation: We're dropping you and now you get to be part of the worst piece of domestic legislation in America's history.
> 
> I was paying $400 a year with this Insurance company. I wonder how much more i'll be forced to pay when i get signed up for Boondogglecare (if i can ever access the fucked-up website).



I'm sorry.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Pop23 said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...


Yeah right. 
Hey genius....Any time government provides an entitlement it becomes sacrosanct. 
This is how non productive societies are created. BY creating entitlements and hand outs, those in office get to keep their jobs. 
That is the ONLY purpose of social entitlements. 
The Canadian system is a typical government run system that does not work for the people who pay for it. 
I think a system that rations medical care and the cost is the doctors have to be imported because under the system doctors are paid so little that no Canadian would make the investment in education for medical school is garbage. 
I think a system where a 6 month wait for a specialist is garbage.
I think a system that causes the average wage earner to lose nearly half their weekly pay to taxes is garbage.
If you want single payer so badly, move to Canada.


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## percysunshine (Oct 21, 2013)

Amelia said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...




Imagine that. USMB is a more useful resource for Obamacare than the entire Department of Health and Human Services.


----------



## percysunshine (Oct 21, 2013)

Meister said:


> No one has really addressed the 800 pound gorilla in the room.  This isn't about healthcare nor is it about healthcare insurance.  This is about the government taking over 6% of the GDP.  It's a power play by the government to begin the change in direction of America.



And I thought it was just an expensive way to register more Democrats to vote.


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## Vox (Oct 21, 2013)

Londoner said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



stop sloganeering.

Medicare is dragging us into abyss. If it is not reformed, there won't be any leftovers after 2022.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> > I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".
> ...



Carney is a well trained member of the flock. 
" The president is frustrated. He is focused on fixing the problems"...
If I were in Todd's shoes my follow up would have been: Mr Carney, would you provide specifics as to what the President is doing in the course of the focus you state he is placing on the problems?"..
Carney's head would explode.
The problem with most of our media is they allow the WH Press Sec'y to get away with these cheesy non responsive answers. They refuse to pursue the secretary for specifics. In effect, Carney is campaigning for Obama.....


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## Jackson (Oct 21, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



That is reserved for the administration to leave their apologies.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...


WRONG....The concept is "to pool the resources of the many to cover the losses of the few".
Unlike marxism, each consumer has a CHOICE as to his or her participation.
ACA is a captive system. That is collectivism.


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## percysunshine (Oct 21, 2013)

Oops....Healthcare.gov says that a fetus is a person, and a family member. Bet that does not last long when the software is updated.








The Corner | National Review Online


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## Amelia (Oct 21, 2013)

percysunshine said:


> Oops....Healthcare.gov says that a fetus is a person, and a family member. Bet that does not last long when the software is updated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





ooops!


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 21, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > No one has really addressed the 800 pound gorilla in the room.  This isn't about healthcare nor is it about healthcare insurance.  This is about the government taking over 6% of the GDP.  It's a power play by the government to begin the change in direction of America.
> ...



Simple. Through the mandates on all health insurance coverage types. Through the government mandated limits on reimbursements to medical professionals. Through the medical device tax.
Those are just three examples of a government takeover of the health insurance and medical care industries.


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## Vox (Oct 21, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Mustang said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



obamacare is a classic example of fascist system - favoritism of the big companies on the expense of the everyday citizen and the government prosecution of the citizen if he/she want to disobey.

It is still collectivist and marxist based, but with a fascist twist - a symbiosis of government capitalism with socialist prosecution.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 21, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Don't believe any  of these stories of woe coming out of the Right.

As was proven below,  the lie campaign is in full swing:

*Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare *

Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare - Salon.com


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## Londoner (Oct 21, 2013)

Vox said:


> stop sloganeering.
> 
> Medicare is dragging us into abyss. If it is not reformed, there won't be any leftovers after 2022.



Yes, but Republican Seniors want it. The GOP cannot win Florida without promising to protect it. Many of your Republican seniors are more concerned with Medicare and SS than Iraqi oil fields.

Given how important it is, the nation must shift priorities to preserve it. Repeal some of the military adventures. Fighting terrorism needs to be more effectively separated from expanding/protecting the oil fields of private companies - as it stands the taxpayer is subsidizing Exxon while bridges, roads, energy grids and schools crumble. We need to take Washington back from the large private sector corporations that have turned it into an ATM. Stop the Ayn Rand garbage about the persecuted businessman - it's not longer the 1930s. The persecuted businessmen are the Koch brothers and they own an entire political party. Shine a light on this shit so voters know what they're voting for. Stop trusting your politicians so much. Cut programs that are not nearly as popular as Medicare (or be honest to your Florida seniors about your real plans). There is a lot of waste to be cleaned up...  stop subsidizing companies that ship production to Asia. Dismantle the current health insurance & drug monopolies which built trillion dollar Lobbying Empires to rig US Markets. This would mean getting the GOP out of the pockets of Big Pharma. As it stands, the most likely post-Senate job for a current Republican Senator is to become a drug lobbyist - meaning: of course you don't want people tinkering with health care. 

We have to end the collusion between big business and big government on both sides of the aisle. Study the 2003 GOP Medicare Drug Bill, which was the most irresponsible corrupt no-bid contract ever awarded to a private company. [We didn't hear a peep from your side when Bush made the largest entitlement expansion since LBJ. Meaning: help us educate your republican brothers and sisters so they are more critical of their own leaders] The Bush government and Republican Congress gave Eli Lilly a contract which forbid the taxpayer from seeking volume discounts for the government's Medicare drug purchases. This locked the taxpayer into artificially rigged, _above_ market costs. It was pure Republican interventionism in the market - and it  never gets reported by your side. But I agree with you: of course we need to clean up all of the corrupt bullshit that has been built into every single large U.S. market, including government contracts awarded to the _private_ sector, which constitute forms of welfare that make food stamps and welfare-queens look like microbes on the tits of a baboon. We also have to take a knife to ObamaCare and convert it into something that will actually lower costs, like reviving the public option so big insurance actually has to compete for customers, which will make it harder for them to constantly raise premiums and decrease coverage. But yes, to preserve Medicare would mean to clean up the entire Health Care market, which has been deeply distorted by decades of concentrated lobbying. Meaning: we can't take step one until we free people from FOX News. We need to liberate your party so we can work on this stuff.

Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare - Salon.com


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## Amelia (Oct 21, 2013)

Yesterday Matt Walsh asked people for their personal stories of how O-care negatively impacts them.  The overnight result was a cascade of nightmares:

The Definitive Guide to How Obamacare is Destroying American Lives | The Matt Walsh Blog


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## Avorysuds (Oct 21, 2013)

Man, by 2016 Republicans choice to "hold the country hostage" to end Obamacare might be getting them elected as people feel Obamacare is holding the country hostage permanently. lol.


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## P@triot (Oct 21, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> 
> But let's not pretend they haven't been rising for decades.
> 
> ...



Yeah stupid, "inaction" _is_ the best course as it's *not* the business of the federal government.

Christ Almighty, when are you fucking idiots going to realize the federal government exists for 18 specific functions and *not* to make everything so cheap for you that your salary allows you to live like Bill fucking Gates?!? 

The ONLY one to blame here is the Dumbocrats. The Republicans did exactly what they were supposed to do and stayed the _*fuck*_ out of my personal business and my personal healthcare.


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## TemplarKormac (Oct 21, 2013)

If you want to see a torrent of nightmares:

https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov


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## P@triot (Oct 21, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



Even by the standard I've come to expect from you Dumbocrats, it is astounding that you swallow this left-wing bullshit as fast as they can spew it down your throat [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION].

Why don't you check out this article about the Cleveland Clinic. The _massive_ healthcare institution which initially supported Obamacare and which hosted Obama on his circle-jerk campaign circuit to push marxism on the American people.

Citing Obamacare, Cleveland Clinic to Cut $300M, Warns of Layoffs - US News and World Report

Real people are losing their jobs you buffoon. Real people are having their hours cut. Real people are losing their health insurance. And real people are being taxed to death.

But hey, you keep being a useful idiot for the party. You're like the good little Nazi supporters in Germany who refused to accept the facts and instead preferred Hitler's propaganda. The same one's who were walking around all wide-eyed and scratching their heads while asking "how could this have happened" when it was all over. Yep, you are definitely one of the prized little useful idiots of the party...


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## Londoner (Oct 21, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Yeah stupid, "inaction" _is_ the best course as it's *not* the business of the federal government.



Big Pharma and Big Insurance pour trillions of dollars a year into Washington. They fund elections and apply massive lobbying pressure. Meaning: the government already has its hands all over the market _because_ of private sector financial pressure.

Consider the Patent System?

This is where the nanny state builds a monopoly-fence around the products of the private sector, so they can charge 1,000X production costs for drugs without being disciplined by market competition. 

Washington is where big corporations go for subsidies, bailouts, regulatory favors and virtual monopolies in the form of a corrupt patent system based on pure Big Government intervention. Whenever someone wants to repeal some of the ill-begotten gains of Lobbying Industrial Complex we hear cries of socialism. Drug industry sales are inflated by 290 billion a year because the private sector benefits from _government_ intervention in the market . The last thing on earth the private sector wants is a free market; this is why they fund elections and flock to Washington.

Our political system and news sources are owned by a private sector which has distorted markets more than FDR could have ever dreamed. Please turn off talk radio and try to study some of this stuff. Don't take my word for it. Research why corporations fund elections and create lobbying empires. They're paying for the right to fleece the taxpayer . . . as they quietly funnel money into FOX and Limbaugh so as to distract uneducated morons with horror stories about gays, illegals, welfare queens and food stamps. 

We all agree that competitive markets are better at allocating resources and setting prices than any government bureaucrat, but then we started 4th grade and realized that the people talking most about free markets were the ones who had distorted it the most.


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## Billo_Really (Oct 22, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...


 _"The costs are too high"_

I guess being charged *$37,000* for a one night stay in the hospital, is reasonable to you?

That's one bed, 4 blood pressure checks, one x-ray and 2 shots of dylotted = *$37,000*.

People against the ACA, must think that is okay?

People who support that, are traitors to this country!


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 22, 2013)

The failure is getting too big for the MSM to cover up 

Poll: Majority believe health-care Web site problems indicate broader issue with law

_Fifty-six percent of Americans say the Web site problems are part of a broader problem with the laws implementation _​


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## ba1614 (Oct 22, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> > Pop23 said:
> ...



 Yeah, Canada is awesome, my mother in-law(in Ontario), got an appt just last week scheduled for mid April for her hip. This is after waiting nearly 3 months to even see the specialist.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

As I have posted elsewhere, my family plan as a result of Obamacare has increased 76% for $168.00 a month, $2016 a year. Co-payment for hospital and doctor office visits increased as well.

So much for a $2500 a year cost savings the Liar in Chief promised

I digress

-Geaux


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## G.T. (Oct 22, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> ...



Every year you show an increase. 

And he was lying when he said they've always increased?

You are daft.


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## Sarah G (Oct 22, 2013)

Neotrotsky said:


> The failure is getting too big for the MSM to cover up
> 
> Poll: Majority believe health-care Web site problems indicate broader issue with law
> 
> _Fifty-six percent of Americans say the Web site problems are part of a broader problem with the laws implementation _​



You idiot, you think you can call failure in less than a month after the rollout?  Obamacare is here to stay just like SS, Medicare and now Medicaid as the R governors are falling in line and applying for the Medicaid expansion.

Get a grip, Rome wasn't built in a day.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > The failure is getting too big for the MSM to cover up
> ...



But Obama has brought it to rubble in 5 years

-Geaux


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## Sarah G (Oct 22, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...



If the Gipper and two Bushes didn't bring America to rubble, doubtful a brilliant and caring president like Obama could.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...


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## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



So these aren't your complaints, these are something you found on  line, right?


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## freedombecki (Oct 22, 2013)

Billo_Really said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...


 Oh, is that so? What about people who freely chose to chain-smoke themselves into an early grave, and their families were so incensed, they sued doctors, nurses, hospitals, insurance companies, on down the line, for billions of dollars?

People can still get cigarettes, rinse and repeat history with more and more frivolous lawsuits against everybody else except the person that pointed the cancer gun at themselves and squeezed the trigger 90 times a day, each and every time they lit up, until they were dead. People still sue the helpers and those who comforted these suicide stick victims, all the way to the bank.

Cigarettes are a mecca for lawyers and opportunists against health care workers. Why help them compound the wrongs done by the alleged "victims" who brought hell on the cells of their lungs and bodies with smoking themselves to death. 

/Lectio Divinia


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## JoeB131 (Oct 22, 2013)

Do you actually have a case of someone suing their health care provider for their smoking and prevailing in a court of law?  

The real reason that hospital room costs $37,000 a night is because they are covering all the ER patients without insurance and paying their executives eight figure salaries.


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## Claudette (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



Brilliant and caring?? If you call a lefty loon agenda briliant and caring I guess he fills your bill. 

Of course he could care less about anyone who isn't on his wagon train. We're just here to supply the dinaro for his lefty looney agenda. 

WOW. You've been drinking that Kool-aid by the gallon. 

Brillian and caring?? Not fucking hardly.


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## PoliticalChic (Oct 22, 2013)

PoliticalChic said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...







Oh, no.....

Poor Sally got a cream pie smooshed in his kisser and he had to run and hide.


Come back, Sally.....


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## G.T. (Oct 22, 2013)

politicalchic can prove her teachers were liars.....

And tells us how a decrease in the percentage INCREASE, is not an increase.

Then, perhaps she'd apologize to g5000 for being a dunce and calling him a liar based on her faulty mathematics.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Londoner said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah stupid, "inaction" _is_ the best course as it's *not* the business of the federal government.
> ...



Seriously, this comment is _unbelievable_. Someone has been studying hard at the Chris Matthews school of communism. It's *not* a "monopoly" to protect intellectual property. Every advancement we've ever experienced (from healthcare to technology to science, etc.) is the direct result of significant R&D costs. Costs that people would *never* accept and incur if their subsequent results could be ripped off by lazy parasites. 



Londoner said:


> Washington is where big corporations go for subsidies, bailouts, regulatory favors and virtual monopolies in the form of a corrupt patent system based on pure Big Government intervention.



Wow. I mean, seriously, _wow_. My 4 year old is even laughing at the absurdity of this post. You are definitely the good little soldier of the liberal propaganda. There is nothing "corrupt" about the patent system as we have already covered. As for the rest of your absurd insanity, we have the highest corporate tax rate in the _world_. If "big corporations" yield sooooo much power, influence, and control over Washington, then they are some of the dumbest mother fuckers in world history - because they are being fleeced blind by the federal government.



Londoner said:


> Whenever someone wants to repeal some of the ill-begotten gains of Lobbying Industrial Complex we hear cries of socialism. Drug industry sales are inflated by 290 billion a year because the private sector benefits from _government_ intervention in the market . The last thing on earth the private sector wants is a free market; this is why they fund elections and flock to Washington.



You think any business wants to piss away their profits on representatives and lobbyists? Really? You're _really_ that fuck'n stupid as to believe that idiot liberal bullshit? They do that out of the pure necessity to _survive_. Even with dumping hundreds of billions into Washington we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and some of the most stifling, suffocating regulations in the world. Can you imagine how bad it would be without spending a fortune on people to protect their interests? 



Londoner said:


> Our political system and news sources are owned by a private sector which has distorted markets more than FDR could have ever dreamed.



Jospeh Stalin, is that you? Now you're complaining that our news sources are privately owned?!?  Who should control them, the _government_? God Almighty are you a weak-minded simpleton. Bow to government, they love you - right?



Londoner said:


> Please turn off talk radio and try to study some of this stuff.



Please turn _on_ talk radio you simple-minded surf and use it as a guide to start studying some of this stuff 



Londoner said:


> Don't take my word for it.



Believe me, I wouldn't. Nor would anyone with an _ounce_ of common sense. You're a pure, unaldulterated communist (and yet you will deny that simple fact - which I find fascinating).



Londoner said:


> Research why corporations fund elections and create lobbying empires.



We covered this above genius. It's because the federal government has impeded on the free market so severely, corporations are _forced_ to spend ungodly sums of money out of desperation to survive. Money they would much rather keep as profit and use to reinvest in their company.

The fact that you _think_ corporations enjoy dumping their money into lobbyists and elections is comical. Clearly you have never run a business. Hell, clearly you never graduated high school to believe such nonsense.



Londoner said:


> They're paying for the right to fleece the taxpayer



Someone's mommy & daddy put them to sleep every night by reading them the Communist Manifesto. How can a corporation "fleece a taxpayer"?!? They don't set the tax rates in America - as we've already discussed based on the *fact* (something you seem terribly adverse to) that we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world.



Londoner said:


> . . as they quietly funnel money into FOX and Limbaugh so as to distract uneducated morons with horror stories about gays, illegals, welfare queens and food stamps.



Says the uneducated moron who is telling people to turn off the flow of information (like a good little communist) while complaining that our news sources are not controlled by the federal government (like a really good little communist)... 



Londoner said:


> We all agree that competitive markets are better at allocating resources and setting prices than any government bureaucrat,



My God, you _finally_ said something intelligent. Man, it was painful reading all of your nonsense waiting for anything which wasn't completely absurd.



Londoner said:


> but then we started 4th grade and realized that the people talking most about free markets were the ones who had distorted it the most.



Sadly though, it only takes one reaching the 2nd grade [MENTION=24221]Londoner[/MENTION] to realize everything you are spewing is 100% brainwashed bullshit. How can you "distort" the free market? The whole point of a free market is that you can't effect me because I am FREE from you impacting me. It only gets "distorted" once government over steps their Constitutional authority you buffoon.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



Nothing you said has anything to do with Hannity's lies.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...





This really gives you insight into the ignorant mind of the Dumbocrat like Sarah G. Absolutely...fucking..._hilarious_. This ignorant twat actually believes that Obama cares about _her_. 

Funny thing though, while preaching the philosophy of "being your brother's keeper" over and over and over, Obams sits on tens of millions of dollars while his own aunt wallows in poverty - living in government housing and off of government food stamps. He could life that burden off the American tax payer - not to mention practice what he preaches - by using his tens of millions of dollars to care for his own aunt, but instead he leaves her in poverty for the "system" to care for her. Right from radical left-wing Huffpo sweetie:

The Relentless Conservative: The Continuing Saga of Obama's Illegal Alien Aunt & Uncle

But wait - there's more! If you act now (by clicking the other links below), you can learn about how Obama actually left his nephew to die and how Obama's brother had to call a conservative (you know - those "evil" "greedy" conservatives) for the money he needed for his sons hospital bill.

How I became George Obama's 'brother'

I Have No One Else to Ask: Dinesh DSouza Says He Paid Hospital Bill for Obamas Half-Brother

D'Souza Sends Money to President Obama's Brother for Sick Child

How _dumb_ does a person like  [MENTION=18645]Sarah G[/MENTION] have to be to be duped into believing that Obama "cares"?


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Uh-oh, running from the *facts* [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION]?!? Yeah, I didn't think you'd want to learn the truth about Obamcare. Don't want to be enlightened and face having the foundation of your socialism shaken by facts 

Hannity never lied. Deep down, you know it too.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> As I have posted elsewhere, my family plan as a result of Obamacare has increased 76% for $168.00 a month, $2016 a year. Co-payment for hospital and doctor office visits increased as well.
> 
> So much for a $2500 a year cost savings the Liar in Chief promised
> 
> ...



Prove it.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > The failure is getting too big for the MSM to cover up
> ...



But a website should be sweetie. The federal government is so incompetent, they can't build a functioning website after 4 years and with trillions of dollars at their disposal. And you want them to be in charge of your healthcare [MENTION=18645]Sarah G[/MENTION]?!?


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



I proved that Hannity lied;  I don't need affirmation from you.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

[





Billo_Really said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



It absolutely is "ok". Who the fuck are _you_ to tell anyone else what they should charge for _their_ labor [MENTION=2873]Billo_Really[/MENTION]?!?

You don't like the cost, get up off of your lazy ass and become a doctor. Then charge less. Of get up off of your lazy ass and build your own hospital. Then charge less.

See, that's the beauty of the *free* *market* you ignorant asshole. If you don't like something, you can change it yourself _any_ time you want.

But lazy parasites like you would rather collapse the United States with the exact same ignorant policies which collapsed the U.S.S.R. than take personal responsibility for anything. Why but the can of beer down and leave your trailer park to build your own hospital when you can just complain all day, right?


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Isn't it fascinating that USMB appears to be experiencing a cluster phenomenon for Obamacare 'nightmares'?

lol, what a geographic oddity!!


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## RKMBrown (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Isn't it fascinating that USMB appears to be experiencing a cluster phenomenon for Obamacare 'nightmares'?
> 
> lol, what a geographic oddity!!



No, it's not fascinating.  The entire USA is hardly a geographic oddity.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

RKMBrown said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't it fascinating that USMB appears to be experiencing a cluster phenomenon for Obamacare 'nightmares'?
> ...



Tens of thousands of Americans are signing up for and benefiting from, or will benefit from, the provisions in Obamacare;

made up stories of woe by pathological liars on USMB notwithstanding.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Uh, no you didn't you delusional buffoon. You didn't prove one lie.

First of all you ignorant buffoon, your propagana story (that only moron's like you believe) *never* talked to Hannity. They talked to his guests. So at best you have that the people he interviewed lied (and how is he supposed to control what other people he interviews say?!). But sadly you don't even have _that_.

Meanwhile, I have a left-wing institution which supported Obama admitting they have to cut $300 *million* per year from their budget and cut working people for, the private sector (who will end up on the government teat) because of Obamacare.

Want to try again [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION]? Because so far, this is _not_ going well for you.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

REPUBLICAN governor John Kasich of Ohio just signed onto the Medicaid expansion for the people of his state.

Would you like a list of all the Republican governors who have recognized the benefit of that policy for their states?  Republican governors who are actually _governing_

as opposed to pissing moaning and posturing like the GOP crowd in Congress?


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



330 million Americans and your excited about "tens of thousands"?!? 

Oh my God are you a _buffoon_. Do some basic math there sweetie - that's less than 0.001%.

So we had to put millions out of work, crush hundreds of millions with taxes they can't afford, and cause businesses to go out of business, all so you can celebrate less than 0.001% benefitting?


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## G.T. (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Hannity actually repeated the $600million number for the cost of building the website, which has been proven to be a lie by glenn beck's own "the blaze."

the number is actually $95million

still a gross number

Hannity still lied though


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



We can always tell when you've lost the argument when you start sputtering.


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## boedicca (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...






Well, you know.  The Reactionary Liberal way of showing compassion is to Spend Other People's Money.


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## RKMBrown (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



And 8million Americans lost their jobs, millions more are loosing 10hrs a week of work, 100million + are getting huge increases in cost for their insurance premiums, and much higher deductibles.  America is burning and jerks like you are pouring gas on the fire.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Most Americans already have healthcare coverage.  Stop posting.  You're making an even worse fool of yourself than usual,

and god knows that's one high bar.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> REPUBLICAN governor John Kasich of Ohio just signed onto the Medicaid expansion for the people of his state.
> 
> Would you like a list of all the Republican governors who have recognized the benefit of that policy for their states?  Republican governors who are actually _governing_
> 
> as opposed to pissing moaning and posturing like the GOP crowd in Congress?



Seriously [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION], are you _really_ this stupid or is this an act in an attempt to be a troll?

The federal government steals over $100 billion from Ohioans in the form of Obamacare taxes (18 new taxes in Obamacare alone). For the first 3 years of the Medicaid "expansion", the federal government will cover 100% of the costs. After that, they will cover 90%.

All Kasich did was ensure that as much of Ohio's money as possible - which should *never* leave the state in the first place - returns to Ohio. Otherwise that $130 billion leaves Ohio forever and goes to another state. Just another glaring example of how unconstitutional Obamacare is (not to mention a glaring example of your ignorance).


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



*So you just proved that Obamcare was a lie and completely unnecessary. After all, Obama and the Dumbocrats entire premise was that there were soooooo many Americans "without" health insurance!

   

Stop posting [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION]. You're making an even worse fool of yourself than usual, and god knows that's one high bar.*


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

RKMBrown said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



8 million Americans have lost their jobs because of Obamacare?

That's quite a number:

Obamacare became law in March 2010, there were 139 million Americans employed at the time.

As of the Aug 2013 employment report, there were 144 million Americans employed.

I'm not able to get an 8 million job LOSS from those 2 numbers.  Maybe that's because I have a proper education.


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## Wry Catcher (Oct 22, 2013)

RKMBrown said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



You have evidence to support those numbers?  Post it or be proven a liar.


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## Sarah G (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > REPUBLICAN governor John Kasich of Ohio just signed onto the Medicaid expansion for the people of his state.
> ...



Kasich and a lot of other R governors were against the expansion and resisting it before they were for it.  They have subsequently come to see the light.

The medicaid expansion will cover millions of working poor and Kasich is reluctantly applying for it.  Ohio citizens are telling him what to do now.  Thankfully though that means he'll be gone soon.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



When did anyone ever claim that most Americans weren't insured?


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## RKMBrown (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Are you retarded? Where did I say 8million lost their job because of Obamacare?


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## RKMBrown (Oct 22, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...


Yes, I do.  Here's the 8million. 
We've Lost 8 Million Jobs. Here's A Closer Look. : Planet Money : NPR

You want the rest or is that good enough.  Jerk.


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## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



no, you did not


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Why are you asking a question to a statement I never made? Please highlight in my post again where I stated the word "MOST" in connection to the uninsured.

Want to try again [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION]? I mean, I know you needed some filler to buy you time to visit one of your libtard sites to give you a response since you can't think for yourself.

Now that you've had the time, care to desperately grasp at a spin which will cover your gaffe here of admitting that most people had insurance and thus Obamcare was completely unnecessary and a giant lie by Obama and the Dumbocrats?


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Since you are a Dumbocrat (which means an uneducated high school drop out who wants to live as a parasite mooching off of hard working people), please have someone read my post above which you responded too... 

They were not "for it". They are still not "for it". They will never be "for it". But when unconstitutional federal government uses force, the best you can do is deal with the system within the parameters of how it was built.

This is exactly why they say: 

*"Liberalism - ideas so good they have to be forced on other people!"*


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 22, 2013)

RKMBrown said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



*Yeah-huh....Just like in Canada where they have had universal health care since 1984.
Canada is burning.  Yeah...

Your dumbass redneck ilk is not only pouring gas on the problem, but you've got a box of matches, too.  And children shouldn't play with matches.*


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## Sarah G (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



These Republican governors need to do their jobs and stop messing around with what their citizens want and need.  You should also stfu because you are by no means intelligent enough to explain anything to me or anyone else around here.


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*
This is absolutely positively the stupidest thing I've read on this board.  Hands down.
I can't believe people like you are allowed to vote. *


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

RKMBrown said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



So now you wish to say that you tossed in a number completely irrelevant and inappropriate to the discussion being had,

ABOUT OBAMACARE?

lol, good one.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

RKMBrown said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



When you directly  added, as a counterpoint, to what I said ABOUT Obamacare.

You even started your sentence with 'AND', to directly make the connection to Obamacare.  Now you want to weasel out of it,

fine, that's your style.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



So you want to LOWER the U.S. to Canada's standards? Because we *had* (key word) more wealth, freedom, prosperity, and healthcare than the Canadians ever dreamed of before the Dumbocrats took over.

I just love how idiots like [MENTION=41423]NoTeaPartyPleez[/MENTION] aspire to lower the U.S. to the rest of the world's pitiful standards. It's the equivalent of telling Michael Jordan "you're too good - you need to be more like Larry Nance".


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



You mean the healthcare system that is soooo good, their own PM flees the country to the U.S. for life saving heart surgery? You mean _that_ "universal health care system" asshat? 

Danny Williams, Canadian Official, Seeks Heart Surgery In US

By the way [MENTION=41423]NoTeaPartyPleez[/MENTION], Canada isn't $17 trillion in debt like we are you fuck'n _moron_.

Nobody wants to lower the United States standard of living and lower the world's #1 healthcare like the Dumbocrats....


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



Sweetie - there's a reason Kasich is a REPUBLICAN. It's because that is exactly what the people of Ohio wanted. Someone to stop the collapse. Someone to bring back jobs.

Republicans are the ONLY adults in the room. They are the only one's doing their jobs. Meanwhile, Dumbocrat marxists like Obama eschew reality and facts (remember when Obama said "the economy is doing just fine"? ) for their childish ideological utopia.

And by the way sweetie, I just _did_ explain it to you. Which is why your big grandma panties are in such a bunch. Because you hate it when facts prove your ideology is absurd.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Exactly what is "stupid" about it? The fact that it ends the debate and exposes you for the lazy, useless piece of shit that you are? Yeah - I thought so!


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> These Republican governors need to do their jobs and stop messing around with what their citizens want and need



Um, by the way you ignorant high school dropout, it doesn't matter what citizens "need". The government does *not* exist to provide your "needs" sweetie. That's YOUR job. Just because you're too fuck'n lazy to do it, does not make it the problem of the government or your fellow citizens who - unlike you - actually labor and pay taxes.

Now tell us again how Obama "cares" about you....!


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

This is fucking hilarious. The Obama Administration is such an incompetent bunch of ignorant buffoons that they can't even build a website in 4 years that functions properly.

I don't care if you are left or you are right - you will laugh until you have tears in your eyes when you watch this:

[ame=http://youtu.be/AcLA_D1FZnA]Jon Stewart Delivers Blistering Takedown of Obamacare Rollout: Dems Can't 'Spin This Turd' - YouTube[/ame]


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## Foxfyre (Oct 22, 2013)

The free market has not worked re healthcare for a very long time now.  Not since the government chose to take over a large portion of it via Medicare and Medicaid and started mandating that insurance companies do this and do that which has cost everybody much more than they otherwise would have to pay for health insurance.

In a free market system, insurance companies would have to tailor policies so that people could afford to buy them or the insurance company would go out of business.  Medical providers would have to tailor services so that people could afford them or go out of business.  The government has very deep pockets and very low credibility in discerning and controlling abuse of access to government services; therefore ANYTHING government gets involved in will almost always cost much more than it will cost if it is left to the private sector to do.

Had the government focused on people who, for whatever reason, could not buy insurance through the free market system--that would be a very small percentage of the population, it would have done a good thing.   Forcing everybody into the same system will cost us all most likely thousands every year and health care will suffer.

The statists can't see that because they will defend to their last breath a leftist government no matter what it does.  But the rest are allowed to see the truth.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

150,000 signed up in New York.  95,000 signed up in California.

275,000 Ohioans will be eligible to benefit from the Medicaid expansion that REPUBLICAN Governor John Kasich just signed on to.

btw, think about Kasich getting on board.  Haven't the rightwing inmates around here spent hundreds of posts worth of trying to convince us all how horribly unpopular Obamacare is?

Hated, in fact, all across America?

Why wouldn't a REPUBLICAN then, like Kasich, act in accordance with that supposed unpopularity?  

If Obamacare is so reviled by such a wide swath of American, why isn't Kasich not only following his own opinion, but also the supposed opinion of the American people,

and just saying 'NO!!' to Obamacare?

...you see, it doesn't take a whole lot of mental effort to just stop and think a moment about what the Right tries to tell you,

to realize that the Right is invariably full of shit and lies.


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## Meister (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> 95,000 signed up in New York.  145,000 signed up in California.
> 
> 275,000 Ohioans will be eligible to benefit from the Medicaid expansion that REPUBLICAN Governor John Kasich just signed on to.
> 
> ...


There is a big difference between signing up and purchasing.  You have to sign up just to see what's in it....sounds familiar, huh?
As far as Ohio......it's either the fed exchange or the state exchange....no other options are available, so I have no idea what your drivel is driveling


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## Seawytch (Oct 22, 2013)

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/ins...ine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

How stupid do you have to be to refuse to save money and help your family because you hate the President?


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## rdean (Oct 22, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



How many people work where you work?


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## Foxfyre (Oct 22, 2013)

Meister said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 95,000 signed up in New York.  145,000 signed up in California.
> ...



And that is the devil in the details isn't it.  A blind man should be able to see that the purpose of Obamacare was NEVER to provide more affordable healthcare.  The CBO and other experts had already confirmed that wasn't going to happen not all that long after this abominable legislation was passed.   And we have not had an honest media to inform us so most of the Obama worshippers don't know that.  Or they don't give a shit.  If it exalts Obama it is all good and we'll just ignore all the negative consequences.

But the truth is Obamacare was designed to do one thing and one thing only--to destroy the private healthcare system in America and put government in charge of everything and thereby hold power over the people as never before.


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## francoHFW (Oct 22, 2013)

OP- ACTUALLY, fear mongering Pubcrappe is a nightmare for your poor family LOL- Change the channel fcs...


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare - Salon.com
> 
> How stupid do you have to be to refuse to save money and help your family because you hate the President?



How stupid do you have to be to not understand that Obamacare has caused rates to skyrocket 200% and then to support that insanity simply because you love the fact that the president has a little "d" next to his name and tells you what you want to hear?


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## Seawytch (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare - Salon.com
> ...



Wow, 200%! The numbers keep getting bigger. (Like fish stories)


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## Sarah G (Oct 22, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



That idiot is fucking nutz..


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## Sarah G (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Private health insurance was destroying us.  It was only after Obamacare became law that private insurance was forced to lower their rates.  Not sure if you've ever worked but when you quit, lose your job, leave it for any reason, you're insured for an amount of time but then after that, you used to have to pay for private insurance on your own.  $600 a month was commonplace.

Please tell me what we are supposed to return to if by some miracle you were successful in repealing Obamacare?  Private insurance?  Repubs certainly have no affordable alternatives.  

Your party needs to get to work earning back that 24 billion they lost when they decided to shutdown government.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Oops! Looks like two trailer-park broads just got exposed (_again_) for their profound ignorance of what is going on in their nation and in their government... 

*Obamacare = 198% Increase in Georgia Health Insurance Rates*

Obamacare = 198% Increase in Georgia Health Insurance Rates


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Private health insurance was destroying us.



First of all, nothing could be further from the truth. I *had* the most amazing, affordable, and comprehensive healthcare plan known to man (cost me next to nothing). Thanks to Obamacare and the idiot Dumbocrats, that's now gone.

Second, and more importantly, even if that were true (and clearly it was _not_), it's *not* the place of you or the federal government to decide for other people or the private market what constitutes "affordable". Might I suggest picking up a copy of the Constitution some time and actually reading it?



Sarah G said:


> Please tell me what we are supposed to return to if by some miracle you were successful in repealing Obamacare?  Private insurance?  Repubs certainly have no affordable alternatives.



I don't know, be a big girl for once in your life and solve the "problem" yourself? How about skipping on your $60 per month high speed internet so you can whine on the internet about how the U.S. needs socialism and instead put that towards your health insurance? Or skipping on your trendy little iPhone? Gasp! Skipping on frivolous items for necessities? Sacré Bleu! You are a spoiled, entitled American and you "deserve" every toy and creature comfort that the wealthy have, even if you don't put in the same effort, hours, or talents that they do! _Right_?

Or how about getting up off your ass and becoming a doctor yourself, then charge a lot less which will force your competitors to charge a lot less - causing the whole thing to come down significantly?

Or how about getting up off your ass and starting your own hospital, then charge a lot less which will force your competitors to charge a lot less - causing the whole thing to come down significantly?

There are endless solutions/options really, but all of them require you to be a big girl and take personal responsibility. So much easier to cry to power-hungry politicians like Obama to force someone else to labor for you for free, right? There is a term for that - it's called *slavery*. Sadly, it's something you Dumbocrats have refused to let go of - even since losing the Civil War.


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Wow - this one is a 300% increase. Why so quiet over ther [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? 

Obamacare Increases Man's Premiums 300%, Supporters Call It a Success Story | Cato @ Liberty


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## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Oh wytchey - you really are having your worst week on USMB ever...

Georgia seeks delay of Obamacare exchanges, cites 198 percent increase in rates - National Policy & Issues | Examiner.com


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## Politico (Oct 22, 2013)

Why will no one take me up on my healthcare challenge?


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## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Private health insurance was destroying us.
> ...


*
This is why I disdain the right and their "I got mine, now pull up the ladder" attitude.

Who was paying for your care so that it cost you next to nothing, you dumb bastard?

It's not all about you, you stupid prick.  There are 300,000,000 other people who live here too.  

So by your own standards and comments, build your own fucking roads, schools, and utilities.  
Stay out of public parks, don't fucking go near Yellowstone.  
Buy bottled water and boil it.  

Your selfishness is boundless and so is your stupidity. *


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## Interpol (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare - Salon.com
> ...




Actually, the facts are that since Obamacare has begun implementation, premiums have gone up less than 4% two straight years now after 12 previous years where premiums went up anywhere from 12-15% every single year. 

I know it's hard for Republicans to actually allow facts into their hot-air-filled echo chamber up on Bullshit Mountain, but those are the real numbers. 

The only places that are still seeing dramatic increases in premiums are states with Republican or Teabagger Governors who are doing their best to avoid having to implement Obamacare at all.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



The Supreme Court ruled on Obamacare.  The Medicaid expansion is voluntary.


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## RKMBrown (Oct 22, 2013)

Politico said:


> Why will no one take me up on my healthcare challenge?



Because 1) giving people unlimited funds for health care will bury this country and 2) making things freely available turns otherwise good people into abusers of our system. We don't have enough money to spend millions of dollars on every citizen and every illegal immigrant that comes to this country.  The money does not exist. 

If people don't have to pay for things the stuff they "want" become must haves.  

There is not enough money or health care available on the planet to pay for the things that people would like to have for nothing.

We made just our Emergency Care free and look what that did to our hospitals.  According to straw polls here in TX, fully 70% of all Emergency Room care is now being handed out for free to illegal immigrants and drug abusers that line up every day for their free fix, funded by paying consumers in higher hospital costs.

Free markets, under capitalism, do not work when government forces the people providing the products to give their labor and product away and then double bill their paying customers.  The customers quickly find out they are being screwed and the market collapses.


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## Foxfyre (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



Sarah, I was working for a hospital when Medicare first went into effect.  One of my jobs was meeting with the uninsured or underinsured to work out a payment plan for them when they lacked the cash to pay their hospital bill.  We worked out a satisfactory payment plan with every single one of them.  Without exception.

Another part of my job was researching and tracking costs for various products and equipment the hospital used, so I was very conscious of what those costs were.  If one company went up, I knew where we could get something of equal quality at a more favorable cost. And usually the company that then lost our business would be more conducive to negotiating a better price to get us back.

So on both the customer end and consumer ends of the medical business I knew what the numbers were.  And I saw them start increasing noticably almost from the day Medicare went into effect.  As well as being aware of the almost automatic fraud because the government didn't question the stuff that was being charged to it so long as the charge was something covered.  I worked for three other hospitals over the next years always in administration where I had access to costs, and watched a wonderful, compassionate, efficient system dissolve into red tape, endless paperwork, and sharply escalating costs purely due to government involvement.  Government not only short circuited the free market system, but it was adding so many rules and regulations as well as appointing more and more liberal judges who sided almost always with the plaintiffs.

The free market system forces providers AND insurance companies to offer products that people want and that people can afford to buy.  We had the best medical system in the world.  And government involvement ruined it.  And now the left wants to give the same government who screwed it up royally control over all of it.

It just boggles the mind.


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## RKMBrown (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



Wrong, it ruled on the mandate/tax only.


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## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> 
> 1.  Our premiums have been increased by about 38%.
> 
> ...



But...but...but, so many who couldn't afford care before now can!  Now quit yer bitchin'!  Hope you don't mind that 60-grit condom the government is about to shove up your....um, I think you understand.


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## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

ba1614 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> > ScreamingEagle said:
> ...



You no doubt run about, flaunting your guns and bibles, racist to the core.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> The free market has not worked re healthcare for a very long time now.  Not since the government chose to take over a large portion of it via Medicare and Medicaid and started mandating that insurance companies do this and do that which has cost everybody much more than they otherwise would have to pay for health insurance.
> 
> In a free market system, insurance companies would have to tailor policies so that people could afford to buy them or the insurance company would go out of business.  Medical providers would have to tailor services so that people could afford them or go out of business.  The government has very deep pockets and very low credibility in discerning and controlling abuse of access to government services; therefore ANYTHING government gets involved in will almost always cost much more than it will cost if it is left to the private sector to do.
> 
> ...



Anyone who wants a true 'free market' in healthcare wants a situation where the market serves those who can pay the market price,

and those who can't, well, they go without.  That is what you want, but that is what you will never get.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Meister said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 95,000 signed up in New York.  145,000 signed up in California.
> ...



Do you deny the Holocaust as well?

lol, you people are flailing like zombies.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Do tell.
> ...



Ah, not to worry.  As soon as this atrocity has taken a firm hold, health care for the old will be categorized as being cost-ineffective and they will be denied care due to dwindling resources.


----------



## RKMBrown (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The free market has not worked re healthcare for a very long time now.  Not since the government chose to take over a large portion of it via Medicare and Medicaid and started mandating that insurance companies do this and do that which has cost everybody much more than they otherwise would have to pay for health insurance.
> ...



Point? The market price has skyrocketed because of government influence, now you cry it's too expensive can't the government just give it to you for free and double, tripple, quadruple bill those other people that have more than you?

Your health care is more important than my health care because you have less money than me?  I have to sell my house to fund your health care?  Where does your desire to live forever end?  Should we spend 1trillion just for your health care needs?  10trillion?  What is the top end of the amount that we have to spend on you to make you comfortable?


----------



## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



And there you have it folks... _communism_.

If you care so much about the other 330,000,000 people in America, why don't _you_ pay for them [MENTION=41423]NoTeaPartyPleez[/MENTION]? Because you don't give a flying fuck about anyone when it's your money. But you are all too happy to spend _other_ people's money. It's all about free shit for you and bringing down other people to your level rather than raising yourself up to theirs. And that's why you Dumbocrats keep pointing to inferior nations like England and Canada. Because you want to lower the standard of the U.S. to their level.

By the way, your comment about "pull the ladder up" comment made zero sense. That's what Dumbocrats like Barack Obama do stupid. I don't want the ladder pulled up - I welcome _anyone_ who did what I did to enjoy the same healthcare I enjoyed. But sorry, you can't do that by staying home and smoking weed while living off of the government. And that's ultimately what you Dumbocrats want - everything Bill Gates has while putting in _none_ of the effort that he did.

Oh - and as far as roads goes (the same typical tired response by you Dumbocrats), those were paid for by my local taxes. I've *never* called my local officials about my local taxes. I've also never called my local officials about trampling on my Constitutional rights. Part of that is because I wield tremendous power at the local level - just as our founders intended.

Sadly, you parasites figured out that the money runs out at the local level and so you've unconstitutionally taken everything to the federal level. Now we're $17 trillion in debt and on the verge of collapse, but you morons are still calling for more spending and more entitlements. Clearly you idiots have figured out that the money also runs out at the federal level eventually as well. How tragic that all of you are that stupid.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Yeah  right Obamacare is doing terrible things to private insurance like requiring them to get their medical loss ratios up to 85%,

compared to Medicare, that awful government program, that has a medical loss ratio of 98%.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Interpol said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Those numbers are so "real" that you have to take out conservative states and you have no links to back up your "facts". Meanwhile, I've loaded this board with link after link after link - most from radical left-wing Huffpo just so I didn't have to listen to you little liberal bitches cry that the information didn't count because it was from Glenn Beck or Fox.

You lose...


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> And is anybody else picking up on the fact that the Obama worshippers are simply beside themselves that the personal testimonies some of us are giving here might soil the shining symbol of what the Obama Administration is all about--socialized medicine among other things?   Why else would they accuse us of lying?



Beside themselves?  They're declaring everyone with such tales of woe to be outright liars.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Meister said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 95,000 signed up in New York.  145,000 signed up in California.
> ...



So?  You have to register to vote too.  What's the faux outrage over having to register at a website before you use it.  Fuck, you have to register with Yahoo before you can get a fantasy football team lol.

You people are raising the bar on hilarity.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



You write that like they have some kind of choice.  Really?


----------



## Foxfyre (Oct 22, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And is anybody else picking up on the fact that the Obama worshippers are simply beside themselves that the personal testimonies some of us are giving here might soil the shining symbol of what the Obama Administration is all about--socialized medicine among other things?   Why else would they accuse us of lying?
> ...



Yep.  Probably all who will take the Obama penalty for not getting insurance--that is by far the cheapest way to go--don't really give a damn about what it is costing any of the rest of us.  But its easy to call us a liar purely because they don't want to believe us.  But they won't call Obama a liar on the strength that just about every single thing Obama promised about this whole boondoggle was a blatant lie.

Or I might be unfair there because if he believed it was the truth, he was not technically a liar.  He was an incompetent idiot instead.

So take your pick folks. . . .


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And is anybody else picking up on the fact that the Obama worshippers are simply beside themselves that the personal testimonies some of us are giving here might soil the shining symbol of what the Obama Administration is all about--socialized medicine among other things?   Why else would they accuse us of lying?
> ...



I'll be happy to believe Foxfyre when she provides verifiable supporting evidence for her claims about her woes.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Particularly our "progressive" taxation scheme punishes the successful.  I understand the need for taxation, to a point.  But everyone should be required to chip in to foot the bill, not just those who have some wealth.  I would suggest that those supporting confiscation of wealth read about the Fair Tax, but they have proven themselves lacking in reading comprehension and too driven by the party line.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Mustang said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Surely you cannot be talking about your boi, obama, and his acolytes, pelosi and reid?


----------



## Mustang (Oct 22, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



Does the fair tax include a provision to raise the $113,700 income cap for payroll taxes?


----------



## Katzndogz (Oct 22, 2013)

Interpol said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



The facts are, obamacare was not implemented until October 1, 2013.  Only some provisions took effect, none of which had anything to do with premiums.  I know it's hard for democrats to actually allow facts to filter into the obama smoke brains.  But that's what really happened.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Sallow said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



No need to tax what you've already confiscated...oh, my bad, "nationalized".


----------



## Foxfyre (Oct 22, 2013)

Mustang said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Not as long as the social security benefits are capped for those same individuals.  Which they are.

But in my Fair Tax plan, we would slowly and carefully, so as not to break faith with those we have enslaved with it, transfer social security and all other such programs to the states to manage as they see fit.  No such mandatory programs would ever again be a prerogative or function of the federal government.  I am sick and tired of encouraging poverty in lieu of personal responsibility.


----------



## MeBelle (Oct 22, 2013)

G.T. said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



$95M was the original contract award in 2011.

USASpending.gov


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Amelia said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Wry Catcher said:
> ...



Yes, but did that demographic feel they needed, or wanted, to be forced to purchase insurance...or else.


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah G said:
> ...



http://m.onlineathens.com/health/20... spread misinformation? What does it get you?


----------



## MeBelle (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> *145,000 signed up in California.*



Can't find that number. Link please?


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> > I just got a letter from my insurance company saying that i "now have an opportunity to access coverage under the provisions of ACA".
> ...



I so owe you some rep for this...as soon as I can again!


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> ...



Without being Canadians, covered by Canadian health care, just how do people pay for those services?


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



And yet, the phoenix may yet rise from the ashes.  While my hope of seeing this revival in my lifetime fades with every passing bill, I hope my grandchildren will yet witness the rebirth of a great nation.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

MeBelle60 said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > *145,000 signed up in California.*
> ...



I interchanged the 2 numbers.

California is actually 95,000.

California insurance exchange reports 94,500 application starts - latimes.com

New York is 150,000.

NYS Health Department Transmits First Batch Of Approved Obamacare Applications To Insurers | New York Daily News


----------



## Mustang (Oct 22, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Yurt said:


> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



Hint:  moronic hacks are usually devoid of the sense of shame that would engender embarrassment.


----------



## Meister (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Idiot.....signing up does not mean that there is any endorsement or any purchase.  
All it means is that somebody looked at the sight which means nothing until they actually purchase the product being offered.
So when YOU throw out those 95,000 and 145,000 numbers....it really means nothing to the popularity of your messiah's signature legislation.
Now does that 'splain it for you?   Hmmmmm?


----------



## Rinata (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> 
> 1.  Our premiums have been increased by about 38%.
> 
> ...



Do you know how fake this sounds?? I don't believe you. And why do you call it, "USMB", coffee shop?? After being greeted quite coldly in this thread, it should be called, "Conservatives Welcome Only", coffee shop.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Meister said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...



You're one of the least intelligent posters on this forum and that is quite a bar to clear.

Are you even aware that these policies don't go into effect until January?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Funny that the guy who did the factchecking on Hannity's guests was able to make a few phone calls and ask a few questions to get the truth.

I think we know why Hannity or his people didn't do that.

lol, the guy named Cox claimed he couldn't hire anyone and had to keep his people at parttime because of Obamacare.

Turned out he has FOUR employees!!!!  Yes, 46 less than the 50 employee limit where Obamacare kicks in.


----------



## Foxfyre (Oct 22, 2013)

Rinata said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> ...



Really.  You were treated coldly in that thread?  Not that it has anything to do with this, but let's review.  (I keep VERY good records)

Your first post in the Coffee Shop was 8-15-2010 and from that point until 9-12-2010, you were greeted by numerous other folks in the Coffee Shop and you made more than 40 posts interacting with people and were treated in a most friendly manner by everybody - rudely by nobody.

And I can quickly think of a half dozen regulars in the Coffee Shop crowd now who are quite decidedly left of center but who are very much family and quite beloved there&#8212;quite a few others who have stopped in now and then.

Post #4087 in which I personally greeted you


> And a warm USMB Coffee Shop welcome to RINATA!!! who is a first timer today. Welcome, welcome. We hope you find a happy niche here as so many of us have!'
> 
> Rinata makes Member #98. Two more folks and we have an even 100.



You have not visited Coffee Shop II.

Perhaps you would like to revise and extend your remarks?

So maybe if you were more honest you wouldn't remember so poorly.  And what many of us know to be true would not seem so 'fake' to you.  I have nothing to gain by lying about it.  And I am the one living it.

Edit to make sure [MENTION=21173]Rinata[/MENTION] sees this since the threads were merged in the process of making the post.


----------



## Dante (Oct 22, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



You already have healthcare insurance?  You are an imbecile!


----------



## Dante (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



Edited: were threads merged? Who knows shadow?


----------



## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 22, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


----------



## LoneLaugher (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Rinata said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



You lied. That has not happened to your health insurance plan.


----------



## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 22, 2013)

Dante said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



*Good point.   Trolls like Yurtie used to be referred to as flamers long ago on internet message boards in the early 90s. *


----------



## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Here's Top-10

-Geaux

Top 10 Obama Lies | Human Events

1.  Americans want higher taxes:  During the debate over raising the debt ceiling, President Obama said that 80% of Americans support including higher taxes as part of the deal.  But a Rasmussen poll taken the same week showed that only 34% believe a tax hike should be included in a debt-ceiling agreement.

2.  Mother denied health insurance:  During his presidential campaign, Obama said that his mother died of cancer after being denied coverage for a preexisting condition.  He used her image in a campaign ad, repeated the claim in debates, and used the same rhetoric as President when he tried to sell ObamaCare to the American people.  But a new book by New York Times reporter Janny Scott says that Obama&#8217;s mother, Ann Dunham, had health insurance through her employer and was only denied disability insurance.

3.  Tax restraint for middle and lower class:  Obama pledged during his campaign and throughout his presidency not to raise taxes on families making less than $250,000.  But ObamaCare&#8217;s individual mandate will hit many under the $250,000 mark. (Obama&#8217;s own Justice Department said the mandate was a tax, not a penalty, when it argued its constitutionality.)  Not to mention a higher federal cigarette tax and countless other &#8220;fees&#8221; in the health care law that hit the middle and lower class.

4.  Shovel-ready jobs:  When Obama was selling his $787 billion stimulus package, he consistently bragged about how shovel-ready construction jobs would be funded across the nation.  Even the President later admitted that was a lie, when he told the New York Times:  &#8220;There&#8217;s no such thing as shovel-ready projects.&#8221;

5.  Keep your doctor:  President Obama repeatedly pledged that under his health care measure, Americans would be able to keep their doctors.  However, with rising costs, many employers will dump their health care plans and force workers into the state health care exchanges (unless you belong to one of the unions getting ObamaCare waivers.)  A survey by McKinsey & Company found that more than 30% of companies will discontinue coverage for their workers.

6.  No lobbyists:  During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama said:  &#8220;We have the chance to tell all those corporate lobbyists that the days of them setting the agenda in Washington are over.  &#8230; I don&#8217;t take a dime of their money, and when I am President, they won&#8217;t find a job in my White House.&#8221;  At least a dozen former lobbyists got top jobs in his administration at the beginning of his presidency, according to Politico, and National Public Radio reported the Obama administration was granting waivers to lobbyists to circumvent the ban.

7.  Foreign money in campaigns:  During his 2010 State of the Union address, and again during the 2010 midterm elections, Obama railed against foreign money influencing U.S. elections.  The only problem was that there was no evidence to support the charge or, as Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, in the State of the Union audience, silently mouthed, &#8220;Not true.&#8221;

8.  Arizona immigration law:  During the battle over Arizona&#8217;s immigration law, President Obama said:  &#8220;Now suddenly if you don&#8217;t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that&#8217;s something that could potentially happen.&#8221;  Uh, actually, Mr. President, it couldn&#8217;t.  The law would allow law enforcement officials to inquire about immigration status only when there is suspicion of a crime being committed.

9.  Transparency:  Obama pledged that transparency would be a top priority, but his administration refused to grant one-third of the Freedom of Information Act requests, according to an Associated Press analysis.  He also was dishonest about transparency when he said that health-care negotiations would be televised on C-SPAN and that he would wait five days to sign a bill so people would have a chance to read it online.

10.  Constitutional oath:  During his January 2009 inauguration, Barack Obama pledged to &#8220;preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,&#8221; yet he has consistently ignored the 10th Amendment giving powers not enumerated in the Constitution to the states.  Exhibit No. 1: ObamaCare.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 22, 2013)

Londoner said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah stupid, "inaction" _is_ the best course as it's *not* the business of the federal government.
> ...



Now it's big pharma and big insurance.....Once again a flaming lib gives Obama a hall pass.


----------



## Foxfyre (Oct 22, 2013)

LoneLaugher said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Rinata said:
> ...



It hasn't?  Could you convince my husband of that?  He is really bummed that his doctor is quitting.  Maybe you better tell the doctor that he isn't quitting for the reasons he stated either.   I will leave it to the people in real life who know me and participate on this forum or who read in from now and then to judge whether I am lying.  I feel pretty certain they don't think so.


----------



## LoneLaugher (Oct 22, 2013)

Stop. It is embarrassing.


----------



## Dante (Oct 22, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Here's Top-10
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> ...



Proof positive [MENTION=19543]Geaux4it[/MENTION] is a Class A Imbecile

Obamacare/PPACA was enacted by a duly.elected Congress and signed into law by a duly elected President.

Supreme Court decision. 

Move on -- is more than just a dot org .


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I was living in South Carolina at the end of the 80's into the early 90's.
In the local paper appeared a story about medical care pricing as to how pricing related to the manner by which the patient paid the bill.
The story told of an older couple who had gone to the hospital. The husband experiencing chest pains. The man was treated for the condition and released. Upon discharge the wife neglected to tell the discharge nurse the method of payment would be Medicare.
The couple was handed a bill for a little under $200.
Realizing her error, the wife goes back to the desk and informs the nurse about the mistake.
The nurse redid the bill under Medicare. The charge went up to nearly $600. Of course the couple paid the same amount. 
So instead of the couple paying the $200 in cash, account closed. The taxpayers got stuck with a $400 bill. And the couple STILL paid $200.
Sometimes I really despise how our government functions. Or doesn't function.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



She gave out plenty of information. 
You imply she is making up her account because you don't like it. Her story does not fit the lib template.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > The free market has not worked re healthcare for a very long time now.  Not since the government chose to take over a large portion of it via Medicare and Medicaid and started mandating that insurance companies do this and do that which has cost everybody much more than they otherwise would have to pay for health insurance.
> ...



That's a load of horse shit. The auto insurance marketplace is representative of a free market. And it is highly competitive. Prices reflect that competitiveness.


----------



## Meister (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



So says the board idiot. 

You're the one that seen a need to throw out those numbers.....not me.


----------



## Meister (Oct 22, 2013)

Dante said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Top-10
> ...



The Bill was passed without a republican vote, and the Supreme Court only took up whether it was a fee or a tax.  Roberts legislated that it was a tax.


----------



## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Meister said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Indeed- And what congress voted on was not a tax, but a fee as Obama called it. After it was deemed a tax by the courts it should of gone back for vote on the new language.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 22, 2013)

RKMBrown said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...


Government 'interference'...Let's be clear on this salient point.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 22, 2013)

Mustang said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Deflection....


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 22, 2013)

Rinata said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> ...



Were your wittle feewings hoort?
Nobody cares what you think.
Your response is a common refrain of liberals on this issue.
When people post their negative experiences regarding health insurance and ACA. You people dismiss them out of hand. 
don't get to do that and then claim credibility.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 22, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


> If you want to see a torrent of nightmares:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov



C'mon, you all keep posting these fairy tale stories that are nothing more than RW propaganda.  No one could possible be experiencing any hardships with such a wunnerfool, wunnerfool program that means we all get FREE healthcare!


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > The failure is getting too big for the MSM to cover up
> ...



Why is the rollout even a problem?  They've had how may years to get this set up properly?
Oh, Rome burned pretty handily while "the boss" fiddled away...


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



If liars are so offensive to you, why do you continue to worship every lie that drips off your president's lips.


----------



## gallantwarrior (Oct 22, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Those who opt for the penalty..ahem, _tax_ this year, possibly the next, will find a different story in the ensuing years.  That "tax" is scheduled to increase to the point where the insurance premiums are cheaper.  
Incompetent, liar, doesn't really matter, does it.  We still all pay the price...sooner, or later.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Dante said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Top-10
> ...



Actually, this is proof positive that [MENTION=15512]Dante[/MENTION] is a Class A Imbecile.

First of all, the bill which was eventually passed (ACA) originated in the Senate. All tax revenue bills, Constitutionally, *must* originate in the House. And since Obama swore it wasn't a "tax" a that was ok. But then it would have been found unconstitutional before the Supreme Court because the federal government does not have the power to force it's citizens to purchase a good or service. So Obama, in his infinite stupidity, thought he could create a loophole and made the fatal mistake of declaring it a "tax" before the Supreme Court (thinking that authorized him to force it on the American people). Ironically, he rendered his own bill unconstitutional.

Second, it is completely, totally, and utterly irrelevant if the ACA was "enacted by a duly elected Congress, signed into law by a duly elected President, and authorized by the Supreme Court". If those three entities declared tomorrow that you no longer had 1st Amendment rights and must permanently shut the fuck up (which God knows the majority of America would enjoy), does that make it "Constitutional"? Of course not. They must first amend the Constitution to take away your 1st Amendment rights and that requires 2/3 of the House, 2/3 of the Senate, 3/4 of the states, and the presidents signature.

Sorry _stupid_, that's the way it works (of course, you don't know that because you're too lazy to actually read the Constitution). The Constitution was specifically designed to protect the American people from just such insanity (I'd tell you to read the Federalist Papers but we all know you're too stupid and too lazy to do that and actually learn something). What the Congress passes and the presidents signs is completely fuck'n irrelevant if it's unconstitutional.

Now go play with your Nintendo son and leave the adults to discuss.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Mustang said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



 [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION], you are truly an _epic_ buffoon. And you're clearly a government parasite because nobody could have such a profound lack of even the most basic principles of business and still hold a job in one.

He wasn't prevented from hiring new employees and he wasn't forced to keep his current employees at part time because "Obamacare kicks in" - he was forced to do those things because of the economy-crushing *taxes* of Obamacare.

*Taxes* you fucking buffoon. *Taxes* which take (by force) money away from his business which the federal government then pisses away on waste, fraud, and abuse. _Obamacare_ *taxes*. You're so ignorant of business (and the ACA for that matter) that you're only capable of focusing on the mandate-or-fine section of the law. You think it took over 2,000 pages just for that?!? How stupid are you exactly? There were 18 new *taxes* in Obamacare alone. And the marxist Obama raised other existing *taxes*. All of which strips Mr. Cox of the revenue he generates which he would have used to hire new employees and/or expand the hours of his current employees. *Taxes* you high school drop out. *Taxes*. _Many_ new *taxes*.

Now that you've humiliated yourself in front of the world by exposing such a remarkable level of ignorance, will you please display a shred of dignity and just sit down now and shut the fuck up? If not, I'm just going to take you out behind the woodshed again and give you another verbal spanking like the petulant fuck'n child that you are...


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Here's Top-10
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> ...



It's really remarkable that Obama is so stupid, he believes he can lie like Joseph Stalin in this day & age. He's so ignorant of technology. The internet, cell phones with built in video camera's and still picture camera's, email, cable news, etc. all ensure that every lie he tells will be exposed.

It's also why Dumbocrats are so angry all of the time - they are livid when the truth gets out in place of their official socialist narrative.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



Trust me [MENTION=6847]Foxfyre[/MENTION] - every last Dumbocrat here on USMB knows you are telling the truth just like every Dumbocrat in Washington knows that Obamacare is the final proverbial straw that will collapse our entire system (Cloward & Piven).

The truly deviant one's (like Obama who actually studied under Cloward & Piven themselves at Columbia) are salavating over the collapse. The useful idiots like RW, NYCarbineer, Zeke, and Swallow here on USMB don't realize it's coming because they refuse to question their masters - they just know it is there duty as good little liberal soldiers to toe-the-party agenda no matter how much evidence indicates they are in the wrong on policy.


----------



## Dragonlady (Oct 23, 2013)

Yurt said:


> and yet many canadians come to the US for healthcare
> 
> facts, learn them



False. Very few Canadians go to the US for health care. Studies indicate that nearly all of the Canadians who receive medical treatment in the US are people who were in the US either for business or on vacation, and while there, became ill. 

The husband of one my dearest friends suffered a heart attack while he was in the US on business. They requested that he be stabilized and returned to Canada by air ambulance because they wanted him to be treated in Canada. 

And yes, you will have to pry our health care from our cold dead hands because we will never give it up. Politicians have lost elections here because they messed with our health care.

Last but not least, Tommy Douglas, the man who originated our health care system, was recently named as the greatest Canadian who ever lived.


----------



## Billo_Really (Oct 23, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> It absolutely is "ok". Who the fuck are _you_ to tell anyone else what they should charge for _their_ labor [MENTION=2873]Billo_Really[/MENTION]?!?
> 
> You don't like the cost, get up off of your lazy ass and become a doctor. Then charge less. Of get up off of your lazy ass and build your own hospital. Then charge less.
> 
> ...


The USSR collapsed because of the high cost in healthcare?

That's a new one on me!


----------



## Rinata (Oct 23, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> Rinata said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I posted in that thread for less than a month. Yes, you sent me a greeting that I'm sure you sent to everybody. At first it was alright and I tried to be honest about politics without being rude. It didn't take long for me to feel uncomfortable in that thread.

Do you know what sticks in my mind the most about that experience?? That you and I exchanged posts at first. After a few weeks you didn't respond as much and when you did I sensed the chill. Soon you stopped responding altogether. 

Your preference was people that held your beliefs. That's what I remember. So I just stopped going there. No biggie.


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 23, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > and yet many canadians come to the US for healthcare
> ...



Well here is one notable Canadian who certainly fled your shitty healthcare system for what _was_ the greatest healthcare system in the world:

Canadian premier defends U.S. surgery - UPI.com

Last but not least, go the fuck away [MENTION=41417]Dragonlady[/MENTION]. This is the *US* message board, *not* the Canadian message board. We really, truly, honestly don't give a fuck what you think. Go find a Canadian board and worry about your own fucking nation - you have no vote here, do not pay taxes here, and are not subject to the regulations that your big mouth recklessly calls for. Or has your shitty socialist system created a lack of websites to visit?


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Rinata said:


> Do you know what sticks in my mind the most about that experience?? That you and I exchanged posts at first. After a few weeks you didn't respond as much and when you did I sensed the chill. Soon you stopped responding altogether.
> 
> *Your preference was people that held your beliefs*. That's what I remember. So I just stopped going there. No biggie.



Well duh. Why would anyone want to sit and listen to the left ramble on about their communism/marxism/socialism which has already proven to be a spectacular failure world wide?

The argument is over sweetie. Liberalism was tried over and over and it always ends the same - with collapse, poverty, and misery.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

I thought your absurd obscure radical left-wing websites assured you that Obama's "promise" that "if you liked your doctor, you could keep your doctor" was true? Oh wytchey - how upsetting it must be to realize those you worship keep laughing at you while treating you as the useful idiot you are. And how frustrating it must be to attempt to keep defending the lies and the failures...

Here's Why *So Many* Americans Are Getting Letters Saying Their Health Insurance Is Canceled - Business Insider


----------



## Seawytch (Oct 23, 2013)

Puppy, you can keep your doctor, it's your insurance plan that may not meet the criteria for coverage.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Puppy, you can keep your doctor, it's your insurance plan that may not meet the criteria for coverage.



   

That's like saying "you can keep your car, I'm simply taking away the car keys and all 4 tires". Oh wytchey, it is priceless watching you hop from one foot to the next trying (weakly I might add) to defend the indefensible. If I can't drive the car wytchey, actually "having" the car does me no good. And if Obamacare FORCED me to change insurance to something my doctor doesn't accept, then you have FORCED me to change doctors. Want to try again, _sweetie_?


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Another major corporation - this time UPS - cites Obamacare for having to severely hurt their employees and their families. Oh, "salon.com" didnt tell you about this wytchey? Shocking! Now begin your meltdown and tell us all how this "isn't" true... 

UPS to drop 15,000 workers' spouses from insurance, blames Obamacare - Aug. 21, 2013

UPS takes spouses off insurance; blames Obamacare - NBC News.com

UPS cutting health care for 15,000 spouses, blaming Obamacare

Employers dropping coverage for thousands of spouses over ObamaCare costs


----------



## P@triot (Oct 23, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



 [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION], why so quiet over there? This is a simple question (even for you). Is this a "lie"? This is the organization which hosted Barack Obama during his healthcare tour and which he specifically cited on national television on multiple occasions. The Cleveland Clinic - one of the most powerful healthcare institutions in the _world_ - even supported Obamacare!

Citing Obamacare Cleveland Clinic Cuts $300 Million - incurs many layoffs | USNews

Citing Obamacare Cleveland Clinic Cuts $300 Million - incurs many layoffs | Reuters

World Renowned Clevleand Clinic to lay off thousands due to Obamacare

Prestigious Cleveland Clinic forced to cut $300 million and layoff workers because of Obamacare

Cleveland Clinic forced to cut $300 million and layoff workers cites Obamacare as the cause

Facts are a bitch for the wytch!


----------



## Foxfyre (Oct 23, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Rinata said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



As I previously posted here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...op-4-obamacare-complaints-14.html#post8033783 , his comments about the Coffee Shop were a bald faced lie.  So there is no reason to believe that his denial (or suspicions) about other people's experience with healthcare and the ACA are also not a bald faced lie.

But isn't that what liberals do?   More often than not, they don't refute anything with honest, solid information.  All they have is their undying and unthinking defense of a failed Administration and their determination to demonize, ridicule, or discredit anybody who might criticize it and/or its policies.

It takes very little effort to read the news accounts and hear the testimonies of those who are having bad experiences.

Like those yesteday who took the President at his word that if they could not get through to the website, they could call for help via phone.  So those who called by phone were told that the website was down for 48 hours but they needed to create an account on the website before they could be helped by phone.  When they reminded the 'technician' that  the website was down so they couldn't create an account so  they were given this number to call, they were told to wait the 48 hours, create the account, and then they could call.

You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## Foxfyre (Oct 23, 2013)

Jay Leno said it best this week.  The Administration has assured us that they are calling in the brightest and best to fix the problems with the website.

Why didn't they call in the brightest and best to set it up in the first place?


----------



## Foxfyre (Oct 23, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > and yet many canadians come to the US for healthcare
> ...



Do you have a credible source, other than a rabid leftwing hate site, to back up your opinion?

Your own Frasier Institute disagrees with you:



> The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104 percent  more than double  compared with statistics from 1993.
> 
> Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 provinces reported an average total wait time of 19 weeks between the time a general practitioner refers a patient and the time a specialist provides elective treatment  the longest they have ever recordedRead more: Report: Thousands fled Canada for health care in 2011 | The Daily Caller



Plus, the Canadian healthcare system is no longer paying for itself despite high taxes assessed to pay for it:



> CALGARY, ALBERTA--(Marketwire - Dec 10, 2012) - The Canadian health care system was facing a $537.7 billion shortfall at the end of 2010, an amount equal to more than $32,000 for each Canadian taxpayer, calculates a new report from the Fraser Institute, Canada''s leading public policy think-tank.Fraser Institute: Aging Population and Changing Demographics Mean Canada's Health Care System Facing a Funding Gap of More Than $537 Billion - Yahoo Finance



And you can verify the information cited here:
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uplo...publications/hospital-report-card-BC-2011.pdf

Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2012 Report | Fraser Institute

Waiting for Health Care Is Not a Necessary Evil | Nadeem Esmail

I think we will need to look somewhere other than Canada to justify Obamacare.


----------



## Meister (Oct 23, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > and yet many canadians come to the US for healthcare
> ...



Please drink some more Kool-Aid


*Canada's Private Clinics Surge as Public System Falters*

Accepting money from patients for operations they would otherwise receive free of charge in a public hospital is technically prohibited in this country, even in cases where patients would wait months or even years before receiving treatment.

But no one is about to arrest Dr. Brian Day, who is president and medical director of the center, or any of the 120 doctors who work there. Public hospitals are sending him growing numbers of patients they are too busy to treat, and his center is advertising that patients do not have to wait to replace their aching knees.

The country's publicly financed health insurance system  frequently described as the third rail of its political system and a core value of its national identity  is gradually breaking down. Private clinics are opening around the country by an estimated one a week, and private insurance companies are about to find a gold mine.
Canada's Private Clinics Surge as Public System Falters : Dr. Brian Day

* Private clinics continue explosive growth*

While skirmishers in the ongoing battle between private and public health care in Canada continue to slug it out through court cases, regulatory complaints and debates, the swelling number of private clinics indicates that what once was privatization trickle may soon become a wave.

Whats been tough is that its being done underhandedly, says Cory Verbauwhede, a lawyer for Médecins Québécois pour le Régime Public, a pro-medicare group in Quebec. No one is saying were privatizing the system, its being done bit by bit.

No medical association or government body keeps official track of private clinics at a national level but what evidence exists suggests that the numbers have swollen well into the hundreds. In Quebec alone, theres been a big explosion of private clinics, says Dr. Zoltan Nagy, president of the Canadian Independent Medical Clinics Association, a lobby organization for private health care in Canada. The Quebec government does not keep a comprehensive list of private clinics operating in the province but Nagy estimates there are around 300 private clinics there, including several that focus on providing executive health and cosmetic services.
Private clinics continue explosive growth

[/B]


----------



## JakeStarkey (Oct 23, 2013)

The objective evidence undermines the arguments of non-sustainability by Yurt and Meister against Canada and the USA's programs.

The fact remains that American free market systems failed the American people on this issue, and as such the free market system is being incorporated in a statist system.

Tuff that.  GOP had twenty years to resolve it and made no effort to do so.

Tis what tis.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 23, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > Here's Top-10
> ...



Obama is NOT stupid. He simply does not care to obey the laws which limit the powers of the Executive Branch.
On many occasions, this president has gone forward with decisions that are in direct conflict with the US Constitution's many clauses and directives whiuh limit the powers of the Office of POTUS.
For example. Tired of waiting for Congress to enact his environmental agenda, Obama signed and Executive Order giving the EPA broad powers. One of which permits the EPA to bypass Congressional oversight. Essentially, the EPA is now the fourth branch of the federal government.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 23, 2013)

Meister said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Actually the Plaintiffs in the case argued that Obamacare was commerce. The Defendant argued it was a tax.
Had the SCOTUS ruled in favor of the Plaintiff, that ACA was commerce, such a  ruling would have rendered ACA Unconstitutional.


----------



## rdean (Oct 23, 2013)

rdean said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



Once again, how many people where you work?


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 23, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> The objective evidence undermines the arguments of non-sustainability by Yurt and Meister against Canada and the USA's programs.
> 
> The fact remains that American free market systems failed the American people on this issue, and as such the free market system is being incorporated in a statist system.
> 
> ...



So you've decided to go with the popular version of the Left.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Oct 23, 2013)

Millions of Americans Are Losing Their Health Plans Because of Obamacare


_But the president's promise is turning out to be false for millions of Americans who have had their health insurance policies canceled because they don't meet the requirements of the Affordable Care Act. ​_




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk][FLASHBACK] Obama: If you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Rinata (Oct 29, 2013)

FACT-CHECKED: Hannity Causing Immediate Harm To Consumers

In a galling display of disregard for the public interest, Sean Hannity has been broadcasting provably false information on radio and TV about the Affordable Care Act. Salon&#8217;s &#8220;Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare&#8221; uncovered how he distorted the stories of three couples to imply that they were worse off under Obamacare&#8217;s new rules. In fact, the couples are now able to get more coverage for less money, but Hannity did not retract his report.

By last night, Hannity&#8217;s lies were corrected on the Rachel Maddow Show, in the Washington Post, Politico, Huffington Post, CNN (VIDEO), The Ed Show (VIDEO), and many other outlets. Hannity refuses to address any of the coverage calling him out for deceit.

But now Consumer Reports has also chimed in, correcting statements made by Hannity, The Hill and bloggers on Breitbart.com as &#8220;not true.&#8221; Consumer Reports advised shoppers the best time to enroll in Obamacare was a few weeks off, while expected delays and glitches at HealthCare.gov are ironed out. Hannity took this out-of-context, squealing &#8220;Consumer Reports, Ann, they&#8217;re telling people, &#8216;stay away from the website!&#8217;&#8221; in a segment to Ann Coulter, when just the opposite was true. Consumer Reports has unequivocally endorsed the exchange as the best place to purchase health care.

Hannity&#8217;s misinformation forced the nation&#8217;s leading consumer reporting experts to release a statement correcting the record so Americans can get accurate advice for purchasing healthcare policies. How is this connected to the Tea Party &#8220;scorch everything&#8221; campaign we just witnessed? Read on &#8230;

FACT-CHECKED: Hannity Causing Immediate Harm To Consumers | MyFDL

I wish I could post the entire article here. Hope you righties will read it.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 29, 2013)

Rinata said:


> FACT-CHECKED: Hannity Causing Immediate Harm To Consumers
> 
> In a galling display of disregard for the public interest, Sean Hannity has been broadcasting provably false information on radio and TV about the Affordable Care Act. Salons Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare uncovered how he distorted the stories of three couples to imply that they were worse off under Obamacares new rules. In fact, the couples are now able to get more coverage for less money, but Hannity did not retract his report.
> 
> ...



 [MENTION=21173]Rinata[/MENTION] - as always, Salon.com spoon fed you propaganda and you swallowed it whole.

First and foremost, their position that "Hannity lied" is hysterical since their entire article is about the guests on Hannity. Well guess what genius - Sean Hannity cannot control what his guests say. So right here we have a glaring siren going off about left-wing propaganda - falsely blaming the host for the words of the guests.

Second, and more important, Salon here claims they called one man who doesn't even have enough employees to be bound by Obamacare and thus he lied that he cannot hire and must cut back because of Obamacare. It is fall down hysterical that you swallowed this line [MENTION=21173]Rinata[/MENTION]. *It doesn't matter how many emlpoyees you have - everyone is hammered by Obamacare (hard) because Obamacare has crushed everyone with devastating new taxes that we cannot afford.*

Rinata - sweetie - you're refusal to think for yourself (even on something so basic as this) makes it so easy for propaganda outlets like Salon to make you their slave. So how does that propaganda taste going down? I hear a spoonful of sugar helps!


----------



## Neotrotsky (Oct 29, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Complaint #5 Papa Obama lied about keeping your plan


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 29, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Puppy, you can keep your doctor, it's your insurance plan that may not meet the criteria for coverage.



Meaning, you CANNOT keep your doctor...
Let's cut the bullshit, now.


----------



## percysunshine (Oct 29, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> The objective evidence undermines the arguments of non-sustainability by Yurt and Meister against Canada and the USA's programs.
> 
> The fact remains that American free market systems failed the American people on this issue, and as such the free market system is being incorporated in a statist system.
> 
> ...



How is fixing the price of insurance a free market?


----------



## dblack (Oct 29, 2013)

percysunshine said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The objective evidence undermines the arguments of non-sustainability by Yurt and Meister against Canada and the USA's programs.
> ...



You're a far right reactionary. That's how.


----------



## percysunshine (Oct 29, 2013)

dblack said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



I am a pig, but that is not relevant to my question.


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 29, 2013)

Dragonlady said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > and yet many canadians come to the US for healthcare
> ...



Let's see your response to this..
My friend is from Canada. His family resides in the GTA.
His half brother injured his knee. He visited his primary care doc. They looked at the knee which was swollen and stiff. He was given scrip for medication and an appointment for an MRI....In EIGHT weeks....
I was having what turned out to be migraines. I went to my primary care doc and my MRI appointment was done in THREE DAYS..And I don't lose half my wages to taxes.
The ONLY reason Canada's system has a prayer is because the population is so small.
1/10th that of the US...
Yours is that of the entitlement mentality. You don't care what you can get as long as someone else is paying for it.
In the end though, you ALL pay with confiscatory taxation.
Like it or not, your medical care is not 'free'...
And please, do not respond with "no one said it was free'...That's not even close to true.

Oh....Canadians are apparently staying away from medicine as a career....in droves.
"And yet Canada desperately relies on foreigners to come in and beef up the scant supply of locally-trained physicians. We have never produced enough doctors to meet the health needs of the Canadian population. In fact, Immigration Minister Jason Kenney announced this week that Ottawa is pondering fast-tracking international medical graduates into the system to &#8220;respond to current and future shortages and across the spectrum of the labour market.&#8221; But as much as we appear to like the idea of importing doctors, once the newcomers reach our shores we don&#8217;t seem to have so much as a welcome mat ready for them."

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/04/20/is-canada-discriminating-against-foreign-trained-doctors/


----------



## thereisnospoon (Oct 29, 2013)

dblack said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



That is non responsive. Dismissed.


----------



## P@triot (Oct 29, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Puppy, you can keep your doctor, it's your insurance plan that may not meet the criteria for coverage.
> ...



Seawytch cut the bullshit?!? 

You might as well tell the human race to stop utilizing oxygen. Without bullshit, what else would an extreme partisan hack like seawytch have?


----------



## Neotrotsky (Oct 29, 2013)

it is the line of spin from the WH, as well
they just hope people forget that it is Obama and staff setting the criteria


----------



## percysunshine (Oct 29, 2013)

For anyone who is interested;

How the Obama Administration Made Sure People Couldn't Keep Their Plans | National Review Online


----------



## Neotrotsky (Oct 29, 2013)

Indeed,

from the article:

_The Affordable Care Act as written and passed would have protected the grandfathered plans for a longer period of time and with more freedom for adjustment, but the Obama administration filled out the Secretary Shalls in such a way as to make that much harder, if not basically impossible, to do._​


----------



## dblack (Oct 29, 2013)

All this reminds me of an old joke my union co-workers used to tell....



> Harumphy the clown was doing a show at a children's birthday party.
> 
> "Hey kids, wanna see a magic trick?"
> 
> ...



I think today's "clarification" of what Obama really meant by "you can keep your plan" was his version of "Ta-Da!"


----------



## JoeB131 (Oct 30, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Puppy, you can keep your doctor, it's your insurance plan that may not meet the criteria for coverage.
> ...



But here's the thing, you can't keep your doctor under the old system. 

In the past 11 years, I've changed jobs once, but they've changed my insurance program six times and at one point fired me from a job because I ran up too many medical bills.


----------



## Desperado (Oct 30, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> 
> But let's not pretend they haven't been rising for decades.
> 
> ...



Increasing Healthcare costs were the initial reason for the "Affordable" Care Act in the first place.  The idea was to bring the rising costs under control, but the act fails miserably in this regard!


----------



## Neotrotsky (Oct 30, 2013)

Desperado said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> ...



Really.

the extreme left and Papa Obama have lied about so much on this
-keep plan
-keep doctor
-costs go down $2500

how can the Americans believe anything, they say now


----------



## Desperado (Oct 30, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Complaint #5: At this price, What do you mean that Vision and Dental are not included?


----------



## action1600 (Oct 30, 2013)

How I understand it so far is that after your policy is dropped you will be offer a newer "better" policy. What hasn't been said (or I just haven't seen it) is how much the new policy on average will cost. EX: rate increase 30% 20% etc..... 

I work for my family's company (as does all of my family) and my father just told me that when our health care comes up for renewal that our currant policy will be dropped. As a small business how much more is this going to cost us and as an individual how much will this cost me?

I'm not looking to start a fight I just want to know what other people have herd and are doing about this.

Thanks
Chris


----------



## action1600 (Oct 30, 2013)

Further isn't going at health care from the side of insurance really the problem? If you wanted to lower the cost wouldn't you go after the "actual" cost of the treatments and drugs? Doctors can still charge for their services how they like but can we put a cap on things like x-rays and CT scans?

When last I got a mri it cost me 13k. I asked how much the hospital got the mri for and I was told around a million. I asked how many people they see in a given day and it was around 70. So do the math they get their money back in very little time but yet the cost always stays the same (if not increases). 

I do understand maintenance cost and that of the operator than the radiologists. I also have a problem with the radiologists and how much they get paid for looking at a scan for 5min.

*What i'm getting at is this: isn't there a better way to reduce the cost of health care making it more affordable for everyone? *


----------



## Rinata (Oct 30, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Rinata said:
> 
> 
> > FACT-CHECKED: Hannity Causing Immediate Harm To Consumers
> ...



I have never out and out cussed on this site but dealing with you is making it really tough. Do you even realize that all the crap you spout is from your own head?? No rhyme, no reason, nothing substantiated.

Did you even listen to President Obama's speech today in Boston?? I would bet my last dime that you did not. Everything you have accused me of above is what YOU do. You are actually convinced that I don't think for myself, but you do?? Get help.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Oct 30, 2013)

Since Papa Obama has lied about
-keep your doctor
-keep your plan
-save $2,500/year

It does not really matter what he says
One can not trust a liar



Papa Obama Lied
Healthcare plans died


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Oct 30, 2013)

Foxfyre said:


> So far the results of Obamacare for me and mine:
> 
> 1.  Our premiums have been increased by about 38%.
> 
> ...



^ racist.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Oct 30, 2013)

Obama never said you can keep your policy, he said you can save 15% by switching to GEICO


----------



## dblack (Oct 30, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Obama never said you can keep your policy, he said you can save 15% by switching to GEICO



Was he dressed up like a lizard?


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 30, 2013)

Rinata said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Rinata said:
> ...


I understand your frustration. When the facts do not look good for your cause, that is.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 30, 2013)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Obama never said you can keep your policy, he said you can save 15% by switching to GEICO



AND .......he stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 30, 2013)

dblack said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Obama never said you can keep your policy, he said you can save 15% by switching to GEICO
> ...



The Camel ate him.


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## thereisnospoon (Oct 30, 2013)

Rinata said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Rinata said:
> ...



Why listen He doubles down on every broken promise. Every missed deadline. Every policy failure. Blaming Bush/GOP..
The guy has never stopped campaigning.
He says he is upset about it and he will fix it.
He's the equivalent of an auto tech trying to perform neuro-surgery.
Obama was way out of his element.


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## P@triot (Oct 30, 2013)

Rinata said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Rinata said:
> ...



The fact that I tore _gaping_ holes in this radical left-wing article proves I think for myself. The fact that you didn't proves you swallow the propaganda as fast as they can spoon feed it to you. You question nothing if it comes from the left.

You're so angry and frustrated because you cannot dispute anything I had said. You know Im right about Salon and that pisses you off (which is sad really - you should _want_ to have the facts, but for some reason you prefer the party line).

Did I hear the presidents speech today? No - I was busier than normal and didn't even know he was giving one today. What is your point? Considering his long history of outrageous lies, does it really matter what he had to say? That's your entire problem Rinata. All you care about is what Obama *tells* you. I care about what he *does*.

(And for the record - I listen to about 75% - 80% of the presidents speeches *live*. I'm sorry I can't listen to 100% of them - but unlike you, I actually have a job).


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 30, 2013)




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## Antares (Oct 30, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Complaint #1: I can't log in
> ...



Shhhhhh, better to let us speculate on how tupid you are than to type and prove it.

None of this stuff is working....it has all been a lie.


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## Antares (Oct 30, 2013)

Rinata said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > Rinata said:
> ...



King Obama has not uttered a single truth about anything concerning the ACA.
He opens his mouth, he lies.
It does not speak well for you that you give him any credence at all.


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## Antares (Oct 30, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> The objective evidence undermines the arguments of non-sustainability by Yurt and Meister against Canada and the USA's programs.
> 
> The fact remains that American free market systems failed the American people on this issue, and as such the free market system is being incorporated in a statist system.
> 
> ...



Look at you, all Marxist and shit.


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## dblack (Oct 30, 2013)

Antares said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The objective evidence undermines the arguments of non-sustainability by Yurt and Meister against Canada and the USA's programs.
> ...



Starkey is a mainstream Republican. Duh.


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## Rinata (Oct 31, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Rinata said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Another idiot that doesn't listen to what the president is saying. You two are the ones ignoring the facts, not I.


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## Rinata (Oct 31, 2013)

thereisnospoon said:


> Rinata said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



There you go again. Blah, blah, blah!!! Nothing to say of any substance.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 31, 2013)

Yurt said:


> Complaint #1: I can't log in
> 
> Complaint #2: My info's not right
> 
> ...



Considering all the lies that the left and Papa Obama have told

Are they still running with the lie that Obama Care will save money for the US gov't?


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## Foxfyre (Oct 31, 2013)

They are still running with all the lies.  But they are trying to change the questions and redirect the attention.

Obama has spent three years constantly telling the American people that if they like their current health plan they can keep it.  We now know that was a bald faced lie.  He said if we like our doctor, we can keep him.  We now know that was a bald faced lie.  He said this would save the country mega billions every year.  We now know that was a bald faced lie.

Did Obama know it was a lie?  If so, he is a liar.   If he did not, just add it to the ever growing long list of things he was ultimately responsible for that he was completely clueless about, and rate him even further as the most unknowledgable, clueless, even ignorant President we have ever had in the history of this country.

He said that millions who had been uninsured would now be insured.  Well that is true, but many more millions who had been happily insured are now already without insurance or facing that certainty in the near future unless they pay thousands more in premiums.  Did Obama know that was the case?  If so he let us believe a bald faced lie.  If he didn't know it, we really need a constitutional amendment that will allow us to remove a President for incompetence.


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## depotoo (Oct 31, 2013)

g5000 said:


> Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> 
> But let's not pretend they haven't been rising for decades.
> 
> ...



they had been trying for years but ignored -
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/GOPHealthPlan_061709.pdf
Republican Health Care Reform, Past and Future - NYTimes.com


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## Foxfyre (Oct 31, 2013)

depotoo said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't get me wrong.  I knew ObamaCare would not cause health care costs to go down.  It was obvious.
> ...



This is the latest (just last month) in numerous Republican Study Committee conclusions.  It is not a total package but provides some good ideas on reforming healthcare in a constitutionally practical way and is a good start or at least a basis for debate on others that may need some rethinking.  It allows room for the free market to function.

But such studies are invariably shrugged off by Democrats and are ignored by a leftist sympathetic press.

And leaves the ignoramuses on message boards chirping like parents:  The Republicans have no ideas and offer nothing but 'no'.



> Repeal of Obamacare. It is far easier to wipe the slate clean by repealing the Affordable Care Act in its entirety than by trying to reform it in a piecemeal fashion.
> 
> Provide Americans with more equitable tax relief. Todays tax code disproportionately benefits those who have coverage through work. The above-the-line standard deduction included in the bill is not the traditional tax credit design, but it effectively functions in a similar fashion. Either approach is better suited to helping more people obtain coverage than the current patchwork system of tax breaks or a below-the-line deduction. Furthermore, it would have the same, important end result of allowing more widespread personal ownership and portability of health insurance.
> 
> ...


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