# Hospital Won't Back Obama Birth Claim



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

*BORN IN THE USA?

Hospital Won't Back Obama Birth Claim
Honolulu's Kapi'olani Medical Center refuses to confirm White House letter*

Posted: July 06, 2009
9:26 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

The hospital in Hawaii where Barack Obama claims he was born refuses to produce any documentation  or even confirm the claim  without permission of the president himself.

The Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu has posted on its website a letter on White House stationery dated Jan. 24 in which Obama wrote, "As a beneficiary of the excellence of Kapi'olani Medical Center  the place of my birth  I am pleased to add my voice to your chorus of supporters." 







Kristy Watanabe, the public relations specialist for the hospital refused to confirm or deny the veracity of Obama's letter claiming he was born at the hospital.

"Our comment to everyone who has been calling is that federal law does not permit us to provide any more details concerning information [about Obama's birth] without authorization from Mr. Obama," Watanabe told WND. 

She said the hospital had not contacted Obama for authorization. 

When WND asked Watanabe why the hospital did not contact Obama to ask for authorization, especially given the number of phone calls the hospital was receiving with the request, Watanabe said: "This is our response, and we can't say anything more than that." 

WND asked if a hypothetical elected official pretended to be born at the hospital, would federal law prevent her from disclosing that? If so, which federal law would that be?

"It's just our policy that without permission we don't ever answer questions about babies born in the hospital," she said.

This is not the first time Kapi'olani and other Hawaiian hospitals have slammed the door on WND's attempts to ascertain specifics about Obama's birth.

As reported last month, Kapi'olani declined to return any of at least four WND messages requesting comment, while Queen's Medical Center said in a prepared statement, "Due to patient privacy laws we cannot respond to your inquiries."

A private detective working in conjunction with WND's investigations last year into Obama's birthplace also visited the hospitals.

In a subsequent affidavit, he said the much-publicized online image of what the White House says is Obama's birth certificate doesn't prove any birth location.

"On October 31st, 2008, officials in Hawaii released a statement that they had examined the birth certificate, but failed to declare whether it was a Live Birth Certificate generated by a hospital with signatures of the attending physician or a 'Late Birth' Certificate of Hawaiian Birth that could have been obtained (for a child) who is one year old or older after birth by a simple affirmation of a family member," wrote investigator Jorge L. Baro, of Elite Legal Services in Florida.

"Only the 'Long Form' original certificate will answer all questions about the date and location of birth and confirm that it occurred in Hawaii," he said.

WND reported in the April issue of Whistleblower that Obama's step-grandmother in an interview transcript obtained by WND in Africa has claimed she was present at Obama's birth in Mombasa, Kenya.

WND is in possession of an affidavit submitted by Rev. Kweli Shuhubia, an Anabaptist minister in Kenya, who is the official Swahili translator for the annual Anabaptist Conference in Kenya, and a second affidavit signed by Bishop Ron McRae, the presiding elder of the Anabaptists' Continental Presbytery of Africa.

Where's the proof Barack Obama was born in the U.S. or that he fulfills the "natural-born American" clause in the Constitution? If you still want to see it, join nearly 400,000 others and sign up now!

In his affidavit, Shuhubia asserts "it is common knowledge throughout the Christian and Muslim communities in Kenya that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., was born in Mombasa, Kenya."

Shuhubia further states in his affidavit that he visited Obama's grandmother at her home in the village of Alego-Kogello, on Oct. 16, 2008, in order to conduct a telephone conference interview that would connect with McRae in the United States.

During the telephone interview, McRae specifically asked Sarah Obama two times, "Were you present when your grandson was born in Kenya."

"Both times she specifically replied, 'Yes,'" Shuhubia affirmed in the affidavit. 

Hospital won't back Obama birth claim


----------



## strollingbones (Jul 7, 2009)

i hope this threads ends up where it belongs.


----------



## Big Black Dog (Jul 7, 2009)

The letter seems a bit suspect to me.  Check out the first line in the second paragraph.  I don't think the White House would put out correspondence like this.  Is this a con job, Pale Rider?  I don't believe the President is a true natural born citizen but I also don't think the letter you're tossing around is legit either...  Could be just me.  You can't snow the snowman.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

The hospital is not backing the claim but they aren't denying it either. They are simply following the policy they always have. You want to be an ignorant conspiracy theorist, be my guest.

If you and other Republicans/Conservatives/whatever you are focused on the actual issues than BS, you may actually win a election or two.


----------



## DavidS (Jul 7, 2009)

Hey, Pale. Good to see you're up to your old tricks again! 

Do me a favor. Please call Brooklyn Hospital. (718) 250-8080. Ask them if I was born there. I'll save you the five cents. They'll tell you they can't confirm or deny I was born there (I was) because it's a matter of PRIVATE record. No one can obtain private information about you - social security number, tax returns, DOB, etc. It's called PRIVATE for a reason.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

So instead of Berry Soetoro saying... "hey everybody out there, I was born in this hospital, and you should all believe me," why doesn't he release his "REAL" birth certificate and "PROVE IT?" 

Oh yes... the question no one can answer.


----------



## Luissa (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> *BORN IN THE USA?
> 
> Hospital Won't Back Obama Birth Claim
> Honolulu's Kapi'olani Medical Center refuses to confirm White House letter*
> ...


For one it would probably a hippa violation if they released his birth certificate which would be considered a medical record most likely.
And why do you guys keep bringing this crap up. 
I also do not have my orginal live birth certificate, I wonder how many other people who were born in the US don't either.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Big Black Dog said:


> The letter seems a bit suspect to me.  Check out the first line in the second paragraph.  I don't think the White House would put out correspondence like this.  Is this a con job, Pale Rider?  I don't believe the President is a true natural born citizen but I also don't think the letter you're tossing around is legit either...  Could be just me.  You can't snow the snowman.



The letter is real, his "certificate of live birth" that proves nothing he posted on a couple choice pro obama websites has been proven a forgery.

Don't be an soetoro patsy.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Luissa said:


> For one it would probably a hippa violation if they released his birth certificate which would be considered a medical record most likely.
> And why do you guys keep bringing this crap up.
> I also do not have my orginal live birth certificate, I wonder how many other people who were born in the US don't either.



I'm sure it would be, but that's not the point. The point is, why doesn't soetoro release his real birth certificate? And that, hun, is NOT CRAP. That's a legitimate question, and neither you nor anyone else that's PRO OBAMA will or can answer it. You'd rather piss on our constitution.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> So instead of Berry Soetoro saying... "hey everybody out there, I was born in this hospital, and you should all believe me," why doesn't he release his "REAL" birth certificate and "PROVE IT?"
> 
> Oh yes... the question no one can answer.



Do you have your original live birth certificate on you Pale?

PolitiFact | Obama&#39;s birth certificate: Final chapter



> If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State's office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.
> 
> Sounds like a Vince Flynn novel.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> i hope this threads ends up where it belongs.



Oh? Where would have a legitimate current event story that's all fact moved to stroll?


----------



## brownlou (Jul 7, 2009)

Wow! It must be so sad to be you.
You must be so disappointed that the republican party is so stupid as to let Obama be President. You must be so disappointed that the Clinton campaign let Obama win the nomination. 
You cannot honestly believe that these people would allow someone you think is not a natural born citizen serve in the White House.
Give it a rest. 
Are you stupid or crazy or just want attention?
If he was not a citizen, more powerful people then you would have stopped him. Look at the court battle for the White House in 2000. Look at the court battle between Coleman and Franken.
Don't you think that John McCain or Hillary Clinton would have been in court for either the nomination or the election. 
Barack Obama is a citizen, born in Hawaii, and, as much as you don't like it, the President of the United States.
Now, put your tin foil hat back on before you get a clue.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > So instead of Berry Soetoro saying... "hey everybody out there, I was born in this hospital, and you should all believe me," why doesn't he release his "REAL" birth certificate and "PROVE IT?"
> ...



No. But I do have a copy of my "ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE" that states not only "THE NAME OF THE HOSPITAL" but the "DOCTORS NAME THAT DELIVERED ME," not a "CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH," which in effect, coming from Hawaii in 1961 could be obtained by ANYONE and contains NONE of that information. 

Something soetoro has never produced.

I don't know what's so hard about ADMITTING obama has NEVER SATISFIED the requirements put forth by our CONSTITUTION when it's a FACT. You people got your heads THAT FAR UP OBAMA'S ASS?


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

brownlou said:


> Wow! It must be so sad to be you.
> You must be so disappointed that the republican party is so stupid as to let Obama be President. You must be so disappointed that the Clinton campaign let Obama win the nomination.
> You cannot honestly believe that these people would allow someone you think is not a natural born citizen serve in the White House.
> Give it a rest.
> ...



Try explaining to me why obama is hiding his real birth certificate instead of spewing all that liberal, got your head buried up obama's ass, bull shit ya fucking twit.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

How the hell do you expect people to believe WND when they can't even get own facts straight.



> In an August 23, 2008, article about Berg's lawsuit, WND claimed it had investigated Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate utilizing forgery experts and, "found the document to be authentic,"[48] contradicting claims made in other WND articles and in Corsi's book.[citation needed] However, on December 20, after numerous liberal websites, politicians and media personalities touted WND's findings, Joseph Farah claimed in a WND column that the forgery experts had not actually concluded it was authentic and that, "None of them could report conclusively that the electronic image [of the birth certificate on Obama's campaign website] was authentic or that it was a forgery."





> In a February 10, 2009, column, Janet Porter further alleged that President Obama was acting as a mole for the Soviet Union. Porter suggested that Obama was raised as an atheist and Communist and was subsequently trained by Soviet agents during the early 1990s.



 Anyone who allows such BS to be posted as "News" is not a credible source.

WND has been through this BS in the past:



> On September 20, 2000, WND published an article[53] claiming that Clark Jones, a Savannah, Tennessee car dealer and fund-raiser for then-Vice President Al Gore, had interfered with a criminal investigation, had been a "subject" of a criminal investigation, was listed on law enforcement computers as a "dope dealer," and implied that he had ties to others involved in alleged criminal activity. In 2001, Jones filed a lawsuit[54] against WND; the reporters, Charles C. Thompson II and Tony Hays; the Center for Public Integrity, which had underwritten Thompson and Hays' reporting on the article and related ones[55] and various Tennessee publications and broadcasters who he accused of repeating the claim, claiming libel and defamation. The lawsuit had been scheduled to go to trial in March 2008;[56] but, on February 13, 2008, WND announced that a confidential out-of-court settlement had been reached with Jones.[57] A settlement statement jointly drafted by all parties in the lawsuit states in part:



Corsi himself is not free of any plagiarism charges from his own fellow Conservatives:



> Conservative author and pundit Debbie Schlussel has accused Corsi of plagiarizing elements from columns that she has published, and subsequently posting them under his byline in his WorldNetDaily column.[98][99]



Corsi is a fame hog who wishes he was Barack Obama and knows there is alot of money in book sales to be made by proclaiming fringe ideas.

WorldNetDaily - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Link added.

~A15


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Actually,  the President of the Hospital has read this letter aloud at the Hospital,  during an anniversary celebration of some sort. 

Get it?  The Hospital President read this letter in public,  at the hospital.  

THe video of the celebration and the reading of the letter by the Hospital,  out loud,  saying that Obama was born there,  is available on video.  It's on the nut ball conspiracy page made just for debunking this horse shit.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> How the hell do you expect people to believe WND when they can't even get own facts straight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're deflecting, and dodging, and whatever else you want to call dancing around the point. Not once has attacking the messenger ever proven a point, and attacking WND is not going to make the fact that obama has NOT proven he's a "NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN" go away.

Try facing the facts.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> I don't know what's so hard about ADMITTING obama has NEVER SATISFIED the requirements put forth by our CONSTITUTION when it's a FACT. You people got your heads THAT FAR UP OBAMA'S ASS?



I'm not sure whether the fact you:

A.) Actually believe these delusions

B.) believe saying he's not born here is code word for "We got a damn N word in the White House"

or 

C.) are really bitter about this last election.

I'm not sure which of those 3 you hold true but to believe there is a vast conspiracy that is beyond any Dan Brown novel that Obama somehow wasn't born here is insane.

The amount of people involved among everything alone should dismiss such wacky theories. It reminds me of people who believe we didn't land on the moon.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Actually,  the President of the Hospital has read this letter aloud at the Hospital,  during an anniversary celebration of some sort.
> 
> Get it?  The Hospital President read this letter in public,  at the hospital.
> 
> THe video of the celebration and the reading of the letter by the Hospital,  out loud,  saying that Obama was born there,  is available on video.  It's on the nut ball conspiracy page made just for debunking this horse shit.



Show me ANYTHING you can debunk slick.... ANYTHING! In fact, SHOW ME OBAMA'S REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE... THAT WILL END IT ALL WON'T IT.

I'll wait....


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> You're deflecting, and dodging, and whatever else you want to call dancing around the point. Not once has attacking the messenger ever proven a point, and attacking WND is not going to make the fact that obama has NOT proven he's a "NATURAL BONE AMERICAN CITIZEN" go away.
> 
> Try facing the facts.



YOU try facing the facts or are you that delusional?

Well I don't think Obama can prove he is a Natural BONE American Citizen. 

Seriously though, this issue has beaten to dead so many times that you must enjoy hitting that dead horse. Get any blood from that stone yet?


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know what's so hard about ADMITTING obama has NEVER SATISFIED the requirements put forth by our CONSTITUTION when it's a FACT. You people got your heads THAT FAR UP OBAMA'S ASS?
> ...



Well I'm not sure what your motive is either there chief, seeing as how you'd rather piss on the Constitution than have obama produce his real birth certificate.

Were you born here? Maybe you'd rather see America go down the shitter and fuck all this talk about the law... at least that's the impression I'm getting right now.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Show me ANYTHING you can debunk slick.... ANYTHING! In fact, SHOW ME OBAMA'S REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE... THAT WILL END IT ALL WON'T IT.
> 
> I'll wait....



Yelling in all caps and asking for impossible things from average citizens doesn't strengthen your case. It just makes you look more insane. Got your tin hat handy?


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Actually,  the President of the Hospital has read this letter aloud at the Hospital,  during an anniversary celebration of some sort.
> ...




This letter you present,  this letter you claim the Hospital will not confirm,  was read aloud at the Centinial Celebration for the Hospital.  They are celebrating the fact that Obama was born there.

Where Obama was born | Obama Conspiracy Theories


You fail.  In a very long and painful way.


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 7, 2009)

Yet another Fair and Balanced report from Jerome R. Corsi.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Well I'm not sure what your motive is either there chief, seeing as how you'd rather piss on the Constitution than have obama produce his real birth certificate.
> 
> Were you born here? Maybe you'd rather see America go down the shitter and fuck all this talk about the law... at least that's the impression I'm getting right now.



So you ignore what I say and go on to try and insult me while questioning my Patriotism.

I was born and raised here in the U.S. of A. I'm not pissing on the Constitution, the last President did enough of that. It's alright though, I understand it's just your right to bear arms that really matters to you, fuck the rest of the Constitution huh?

You hold a conspiracy theory that is up there with "We didn't land on the moon" and "The Earth is flat."


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > You're deflecting, and dodging, and whatever else you want to call dancing around the point. Not once has attacking the messenger ever proven a point, and attacking WND is not going to make the fact that obama has NOT proven he's a "NATURAL BONE AMERICAN CITIZEN" go away.
> ...



Go ahead, make fun of a typo, but the fact of the matter remains, obama has NOT proven he's eligible to be President as put forth by the Constitution of the United States. You choose to poo poo it and ignore it. I don't. That makes me a better American than you are. YOU exemplify all that is wrong with America today. You should be ashamed of yourself.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> This letter you present,  this letter you claim the Hospital will not confirm,  was read aloud at the Centinial Celebration for the Hospital.  They are celebrating the fact that Obama was born there.
> 
> Where Obama was born | Obama Conspiracy Theories
> 
> ...



Stop using facts! This is the no-fact err no-spin zone!


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Show me ANYTHING you can debunk slick.... ANYTHING! In fact, SHOW ME OBAMA'S REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE... THAT WILL END IT ALL WON'T IT.
> ...



Ignoring the question just makes you look small and worthless. Try popping that apathy bubble you live in.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > This letter you present,  this letter you claim the Hospital will not confirm,  was read aloud at the Centinial Celebration for the Hospital.  They are celebrating the fact that Obama was born there.
> ...



No shit.  

The fact that this very letter was read aloud,  to a large crowd of people,  at the Hospital,  in celebration of Obama being born there,  certainly shows that the Hospital is engaged in an elaborate cover up and they refuse to acknowledge the letter.

Fucking cucko for coco puffs.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...


And that is an EPIC FAIL. It proves exactly NOTHING!

Next time post a picture of his "REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE" instead of all this hyperbole and spin created by obamabots.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Go ahead, make fun of a typo, but the fact of the matter remains, obama has NOT proven he's eligible to be President as put forth by the Constitution of the United States. You choose to poo poo it and ignore it. I don't. That makes me a better American than you are. YOU exemplify all that is wrong with America today. You should be ashamed of yourself.



Really? So all these people and courts are just liars huh? President Bush and all these moderate Republicans would just sit idle by while Obama does this? I say moderate Republicans because I trust the opinion of the extreme right ones as much as I trust this theory, which is not at all.

You tell me I'm what's wrong with America today and should be ashamed of myself. YOU are the one who should be ashamed of yourself because it's people like who make us look like a laughingstock around the world by actually putting your delusional belief into such crack pot theories. So let me ask you Pale, if WND and Corsi are legitimate journalists and such, do you believe this?



> In a February 10, 2009, column, Janet Porter further alleged that President Obama was acting as a mole for the Soviet Union. Porter suggested that Obama was raised as an atheist and Communist and was subsequently trained by Soviet agents during the early 1990s.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> And that is an EPIC FAIL. It proves exactly NOTHING!
> 
> Next time post a picture of his "REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE" instead of all this hyperbole and spin created by obamabots.



Psst Rin-Tin-Tin, it proves the Hospital is PROUD OF THE FACT OBAMA WAS BORN THERE. Which makes your entire thread USELESS.

Did you live under power lines as a child?


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Go ahead, make fun of a typo, but the fact of the matter remains, obama has NOT proven he's eligible to be President as put forth by the Constitution of the United States. You choose to poo poo it and ignore it. I don't. That makes me a better American than you are. YOU exemplify all that is wrong with America today. You should be ashamed of yourself.
> ...



Well, you're losing so try the "I know you are but what am I."

NONE OF YOU has explained why obama is HIDING his REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Do that, then we'll continue. Until then, you're just a bunch of head of obama's ass mouth pieces spewing liberal shit and spin.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Well, you're losing so try the "I know you are but what am I."
> 
> NONE OF YOU has explained why obama is HIDING his REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
> 
> Do that, then we'll continue. Until then, you're just a bunch of head of obama's ass morth pieces spewing liberal shit and spin.



You refuse to answer my questions and ask your bat-shit insane ones.

Let me put it to you this way rin-tin-tin, any organization that allows this to be posted as "news" is not legitimate:



> In a February 10, 2009, column, Janet Porter further alleged that President Obama was acting as a mole for the Soviet Union. Porter suggested that Obama was raised as an atheist and Communist and was subsequently trained by Soviet agents during the early 1990s.



Unless you're afraid to admit you believe this too because even you know that is insane.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > And that is an EPIC FAIL. It proves exactly NOTHING!
> ...



Psssst... Einstein... the only thing that will prove obama was born there is his real birth certificate, and I haven't seen that, you haven't seen that, NO ONE has seen that.

Try again...


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




Ignoring what question?  You didn't ask a question.  Did you?

Please Pale,  demonstrate that you have the slightest ability to recognize reality.  Say "Ooops,  sorry,  I didn't even ask a question" .

Because you didn't.  Read it slowly.  There is no question.

But there is a video.  A video of this letter being read aloud at the Hospital where you claim they will not stand by the letter.  

But they read it in public at their celebration.  They acknowledged the letter right out in the open.  

Didn't they?

(That is a question.)


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Jul 7, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> i hope this threads ends up where it belongs.



In the Garbage? Although I must repeat Obama could end this ignorance easily enough.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you're losing so try the "I know you are but what am I."
> ...



Blah, blah, blah little bobby boots... but no explanation as to why obama is hiding his real birth certificate.... can't do it can ya? Well, I know you can't. That's why I keep asking. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ANSWER AND I KNOW IT. LMFAO!!!!


----------



## Political Junky (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> > The letter seems a bit suspect to me.  Check out the first line in the second paragraph.  I don't think the White House would put out correspondence like this.  Is this a con job, Pale Rider?  I don't believe the President is a true natural born citizen but I also don't think the letter you're tossing around is legit either...  Could be just me.  You can't snow the snowman.
> ...


Please post any evidence of a forgery.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> > i hope this threads ends up where it belongs.
> ...



And why do you think he doesn't? That's more or less all I'm wondering myself? Why doesn't he release his real birth certificate, because OBVIOUSLY this issue is NOT going away.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Psssst... Einstein... the only thing that will prove obama was born there is his real birth certificate, and I haven't seen that, you haven't seen that, NO ONE has seen that.
> 
> Try again...



 Just because YOU haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not in existence.

I haven't seen yours Pale, I don't think you're an American citizen!!! 

Honestly Rin-Tin-Tin, you could be shown a video of Obama's live birth as it happened with the time, date, and place all shown many times over and you'd still be in denial.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Blah, blah, blah little bobby boots... but no explanation as to why obama is hiding his real birth certificate.... can't do it can ya? Well, I know you can't. That's why I keep asking. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ANSWER AND I KNOW IT. LMFAO!!!!



Why do I picture Pale like this whenever he posts?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKNzEvK_5u8]YouTube - Insane Driver!!!![/ame]

Oh, and you still didn't answer my question Rin-Tin. You honestly believe he's a Soviet Mole who is both Atheist, Communist and here to destroy America huh?


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Political Junky said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Big Black Dog said:
> ...



Google it. There's hundreds of pages and videos pointing out the mistakes in what was supposed to be his certificate of live birth.

I'm not your search engine.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Psssst... Einstein... the only thing that will prove obama was born there is his real birth certificate, and I haven't seen that, you haven't seen that, NO ONE has seen that.
> ...



Bull shit. Now you're just talking like a little punk, and you didn't answer my question.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Ignoring what question?  You didn't ask a question.  Did you?
> 
> Please Pale,  demonstrate that you have the slightest ability to recognize reality.  Say "Ooops,  sorry,  I didn't even ask a question" .
> 
> ...



Are you going to believe me, or what you see with your own eyes? - Groucho Marx


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

I would say this is beyond the pale......but....


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Blah, blah, blah little bobby boots... but no explanation as to why obama is hiding his real birth certificate.... can't do it can ya? Well, I know you can't. That's why I keep asking. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ANSWER AND I KNOW IT. LMFAO!!!!
> ...


Sarcastic little videos prove nothing more than YOU LOSE bobby saniflush.

"Why is obama hiding his real birth certificate?"


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Google it. There's hundreds of pages and videos pointing out the mistakes in what was supposed to be his certificate of live birth.
> 
> I'm not your search engine.



Why don't you do everybody a favor and go search google for this certificate you keep crying over instead of posting crack-pot theories that waste board space?

You're a hypocrite to say one thing and do another.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> I'm going to respond to your posts with the same maturity of a five year old.
> 
> "Why is obama not giving all the crack-pots everything they want? Everything he's given us already isn't good enough!"



Fixed for you


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> I would say this is beyond the pale......but....



In any case, I want to thank you again for keeping my thoughts alive in your sig line. Had I asked you to do that I'm sure you wouldn't of, so this works out nice.

Care to answer the question slick? "Why is obama hiding his real birth certificate?" Go ahead skip... take a crack at it. Show everybody you have a brain and can answer one simply little question.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > I would say this is beyond the pale......but....
> ...




When did you stop having gay anal sex?


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to respond to your posts with the same maturity of a five year old.
> ...



You can't answer the question so you fuck with a quote... nice... EPIC FAIL!

What a tool.


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



As you can see board, this is what these two little liberal sacks of butt puss have reduced themselves to because they can't answer the question....

.... "why is obama hiding his real birth certificate?"


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

And to however moved this into the conspiracy theory section... FUCK YOU!

You fucking people will never see another PENNY of support from me.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



Dip shit.

First,  you must show that Obama is hiding his birth certificate.

Once you can demonstrate that Obama is hiding his BC,  then you can ask that question.  As of now,  the question is illegitimate.

Unless you agree to tell us when you stopped having gay anal sex.  

Then I will answer your question.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> You can't answer the question so you fuck with a quote... nice... EPIC FAIL!
> 
> What a tool.



 You don't answer my questions, so I'm merely returning the favor.

By the way, you completely fail at using Epic Fail.

For your own sake, you should probably stop using phrases that make you look like a complete idiot because you don't know how to use them.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> And to however moved this into the conspiracy theory section... FUCK YOU!




Do you think the mods are "in on it"?


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

pale rider said:


> and to however moved this into the conspiracy theory section... Fuck you!


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Obama's an asshole for not giving permission. It's just more evidence he doesn't see himself as a servant of the people, and that he doesn't give a shit what they think.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Do you think the mods are "in on it"?



 The mods are in on the Obama Live Birth Certificate lie too!


----------



## 007 (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...


Your IGNORANCE shows more with each post you make. 

Here's your picture....


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale, Pale, Pale.  

What evidence do you have that Obama is hiding his birth certificate?

Is there any evidence that Obama's BC is being held anywhere other than the same place that all Hawaiian BCs are held?

NO.  The Obama BC,  in fact,  is not being hidden at all.  It has been treated, stored and viewed in the same manner as any BC on Hawaii.

DO you have any evidence that Barak Obama has ever even seen or touched his own original BC?

I have seen no evidence that the document has ever been in Obamas posession,  much less that he hid it somewhere.

Officials in Hawaii have confirme that they have seen and certified the BC.  They didn't have any trouble locating the BC.  It was right where it is supposed to be.  Not hidden.

Do you have any evidence that Hawaii had some sort of trouble locating the BC,  becuase someone had hidden it?

Do you have any evidence that there has been any order, declaration, proclamation, or otherwise to treat Obama's BC any differently than any other BC handled by the Hawaiians?  



YOu fail.



Now,  back to the real question here:  When did you stop taking it up the ass?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale, Pale, Pale.
> 
> What evidence do you have that Obama is hiding his birth certificate?
> 
> ...


*The fact that he won't authorize the hospital to verify he was born there IS FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT HE'S HIDING THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HIS BIRTH. 
The fact that he no longer allows the public to access his birth certificate online IS FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT HE'S HIDING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.*

The question isn't whether or not he's hiding it, he is - it's whether or not there's any reason for it.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale, Pale, Pale.
> ...




No,  the Hospital is observing standard policy.  If you would like to take on privacy laws,  be my guest.  Obama did not ask them to hide anything.  

His birth certificate is posted in several places on the internet.  I've had no problem looking at the images online.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Once again. He won't authorize them to release the information. So he is hiding the circumstances of his birth.

He has pulled his birth certificate so it is no longer available to view online. So he is hiding his birth certificate.

Move on to something that makes you sound less idiotic now, please.


----------



## Baruch Menachem (Jul 7, 2009)

Luissa said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > *BORN IN THE USA?
> ...


Under the patriot act, it is one of the things you need for a drivers license or a passport.   Also, when you get a new job, it is one of the things asked for on a I-9 form.  

I just got mine, again.  State of Oregon charged $25 per copy.  

I think trooferness is just plain silly.  I think most 0bamabots know the truth and don't care, and since on November 4, 2008, that was a substantial majority of the population of the country, I think the matter is closed.

This whole scam is just what we voted for.   Happy now?


----------



## Luissa (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > For one it would probably a hippa violation if they released his birth certificate which would be considered a medical record most likely.
> ...


He already proved that he is a citizen and presented his birth certificate to the people who need to see it. 
I really want to know why you guys won't except the copy he has released?
And who cares that it was not issued until after his birth, I still have not recieved my son's birth certificate due to the fact his father was not present and his birth so therefore was not place on the birth certificate and so therefore it had to be amended.
There are many reasons why one would not have their orginal live birth certificate. I myself did not have an official birth certificate until I was a year old because my parents were not married yet and my name was different from my father's until that time. My parents actually had to contact a lawyer to officially change my name and my birth certificate.
You guy want to make a mountain out of a mole hill because you need to believe all lies you are told.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Fight the Smears: The Truth About Barackâs Birth Certificate

Barack Obama's birth certificate revealed here | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

PolitiFact | Obama&#39;s birth certificate: Final chapter



Obama must be the worst hide and go seek player ever.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

The people who NEED TO SEE IT are the American people, Luissa.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Once again. He won't authorize them to release the information. So he is hiding the circumstances of his birth.
> 
> He has pulled his birth certificate so it is no longer available to view online. So he is hiding his birth certificate.
> 
> Move on to something that makes you sound less idiotic now, please.




Liar.  

The birth certificate is available on line.  The same images that have been available all along.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The people who NEED TO SEE IT are the American people, Luissa.



Wrong again.  And utterly the type of ignorance that demonstrates the kind of people still chewing this bone.

How many American people are there?  

You expect them all to get to see it?  

Get online and view the BC that is widely available to anyone that wants to see it.


----------



## Luissa (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The people who NEED TO SEE IT are the American people, Luissa.


Have you ever asked to see any other President's birth ceritificate?
He has given what he needs to, to prove he was born a US citizen and that is all you need to know.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Once again. He won't authorize them to release the information. So he is hiding the circumstances of his birth.
> 
> *He has pulled his birth certificate so it is no longer available to view online. So he is hiding his birth certificate.*
> 
> Move on to something that makes you sound less idiotic now, please.



I think Willy expressed more then enough links to the fact that his birth certificate is still available to view online.

A thought: What do the "Birthers" and "WMDbelievers" have in common? They both believe in myths.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

The president yanked the bc from his transparency site. Who knows what is floating on other sites.

And if there was a question about the circumstances of a president's birth, darned tooting I'd ask to see the evidence. 

All Obama has to do is authorize the hospital to release the info and all this would go away. All he has to do it address it. The fact that he refuses to  means one of two (or possibly both) things: He doesn't think he answers to the people, and/or he's hiding something about the circumstances of his birth.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about the first issue.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The president yanked the bc from his transparency site. Who knows what is floating on other sites.
> 
> And if there was a question about the circumstances of a president's birth, darned tooting I'd ask to see the evidence.
> 
> ...



Can you provide us with any evidence that Obama's BC was ever posted on the Transparency site?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Nope. If it wasn't, that's even more evidence that  he's hiding it.


----------



## xsited1 (Jul 7, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> *BORN IN THE USA?
> 
> Hospital Won't Back Obama Birth Claim
> Honolulu's Kapi'olani Medical Center refuses to confirm White House letter*
> ...



My hunch is that Obama was not born in the US and is therefore not eligible to be POTUS.  That said, there is zero chance anything will be done about it.  

There was an African organization that looked into this and found evidence that he was born in Kenya.  Michelle Obama threw a fit and said "it doesn't make him any less of an American!"  The story was buried and disappeared from the internet.  The 'powers that be' are just too powerful.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

It went the same place all the ugly pictures of Chelsea Clinton went.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> My hunch is that Obama was not born in the US and is therefore not eligible to be POTUS.  That said, there is zero chance anything will be done about it.
> 
> There was an African organization that looked into this and found evidence that he was born in Kenya.  Michelle Obama threw a fit and said "it doesn't make him any less of an American!"  The story was buried and disappeared from the internet.  The 'powers that be' are just too powerful.



Seriously, I do hope you're joking and seriously don't believe that Obama controls the internet.


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The people who NEED TO SEE IT are the American people, Luissa.


 
Maybe Obama could produce the original, which would be displayed in encasements made of titanium and aluminum, and filled with inert argon gas.  

Each night the birth certificate would be lowered twenty feet into a steel and reinforced concrete vault beneath the display area and each morning, the document would be mechanically raised into a marble display case.

This could then be viewed by members of the general public for a small fee of $25, which would be collected by the National Park Service.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Nobody thinks he controls the internet.

But the internet is not what it once was. It is now closely monitored and I'm sure pressure is brought to bear....


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Nope. If it wasn't, that's even more evidence that  he's hiding it.



So then,  let's get this out here.

You claim that the Obama BC was posted on the Transparency web site.  However,  you can not offer any evidence that this is true.

Did you make this up?  What led you to believe that the BC was ever posted on the Transparency web site?  Can you tell us why you said this?

Now,  once you make the claim that it was posted on the Transparency web site,  you then claim it was "yanked".

Can you offer any evidence that the BC was ever posted or subsequently removed from the transparency web site?

Or are you making this up?

If someone mislead you,  that's ok,  just say so. If you made it up,  that's OK too.  Just say so.  In any event,  an explanation for this charge is requested.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > The people who NEED TO SEE IT are the American people, Luissa.
> ...



Crap, don't let the Obamites get ahold of that or it might just become a reality.

Quick, someone...remove all reference to this dangerous idea from the internet.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Nope. If it wasn't, that's even more evidence that  he's hiding it.
> ...




My sole purpose in posting in this thread was to show you're an idiot for saying there's no evidence that he's hiding his birth certificate.

If it's not on the transparency site and never has been, I think my work is done. Thanks for doing it for me.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...




The proof you offered to support the claim that Obama is hiding his BC is this claim that he had it yanked form the Transparency website.

Did you lie?


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Nobody thinks he controls the internet.
> 
> But the internet is not what it once was. It is now closely monitored and I'm sure pressure is brought to bear....



By whom? You believe in the whole EU/North American one country theory?

Never mind the fact that Obama would have to censor the internet of every single country, including ones that hate us.

Do you people listen to what you're saying at all?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



If it was never there in the first place, no more evidence is needed.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody thinks he controls the internet.
> ...



You find the ugly pictures of Chelsea and we'll talk.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

> The fact that he no longer allows the public to access his birth certificate online IS FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT HE'S HIDING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.





> He has pulled his birth certificate so it is no longer available to view online. So he is hiding his birth certificate.





> The president yanked the bc from his transparency site.



Allie,  before we can move on we have to clear up what you have said.

Are these lies?

What is your reason for making these statements?


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Yawn.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Yawn.




Focus Allie.

Did you lie?


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> You find the ugly pictures of Chelsea and we'll talk.



Chelsea Clinton Ugly - Google Image Search

I count 5 on the first page alone. Though I hope you won't be complaining later on about the treatment of Bristol Palin.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

No, those are NOTHING. I lived through those years. Those are attractive pics of Chelsea. The truly hideous ones have disappeared.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

And it was my search for ugly pics of Chelsea in order to show how ugly she was that led to my discovery that they have been purged from the universe.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Focus Allie.

Did you use lies to attempt to support your position in this thread?


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> No, those are NOTHING. I lived through those years. Those are attractive pics of Chelsea. The truly hideous ones have disappeared.



They haven't disappeared. There's simply more pictures of her in existence now since she campaigned with her mother and grown into a young woman. So you simply have to look harder through what is the internet.

Honestly, do you think the Obama's would allow pics like these if they controlled the internet? Btw, this is a hilarious picture.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 7, 2009)

Hey Allie, you need to get back OFF THE WAGON...just the other night, when you said you were drinking, you said that you had a recipient at your work who was born in Hawaii, that had to show their certificate of birth for them to get benefits and you examined his at the same time they had obama's on the internet and that you saw that they were clearly the same and that obama's certificate of birth was real....?

So girl, what's the story with that?

Care


----------



## xsited1 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > My hunch is that Obama was not born in the US and is therefore not eligible to be POTUS.  That said, there is zero chance anything will be done about it.
> ...



Who said anything about Obama controlling the internet?  I just mentioned one organization with one website.  But the simple fact that the Obama Administration is scripted and that ultra-liberals like Helen Thomas are claiming that Obama is "controlling the Press" should turn a few heads.  I realize brain-dead Obamabots won't care, but for the rest of the thinking world, we know what this means.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> Who said anything about Obama controlling the internet?  I just mentioned one organization with one website.  But the simple fact that the Obama Administration is scripted and that ultra-liberals like Helen Thomas are claiming that Obama is "controlling the Press" should turn a few heads.  I realize brain-dead Obamabots won't care, but for the rest of the thinking world, we know what this means.



You think the entire Administration is scripted and where did Helen Thomas "claim" this? I'd like to see the context.


----------



## xsited1 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > You find the ugly pictures of Chelsea and we'll talk.
> ...



Come to Little Rock and I'll explain the 'Chelsea Clinton' ugly years for you.  You're far too young to know anything about it.


----------



## xsited1 (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> xsited1 said:
> 
> 
> > Who said anything about Obama controlling the internet?  I just mentioned one organization with one website.  But the simple fact that the Obama Administration is scripted and that ultra-liberals like Helen Thomas are claiming that Obama is "controlling the Press" should turn a few heads.  I realize brain-dead Obamabots won't care, but for the rest of the thinking world, we know what this means.
> ...



Oh brother.  If you're not going to keep up with current events, why even bother to post here?  

And for the rest of you who have been living under a rock and can't do a google search, here's a link:

Helen Thomas: Obama &#8220;controlling the press&#8221; - Collegenews.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

xsited1 said:


> Oh brother.  If you're not going to keep up with current events, why even bother to post here?
> 
> And for the rest of you who have been living under a rock and can't do a google search, here's a link:
> 
> Helen Thomas: Obama controlling the press - Collegenews.



Hmmm..



> Thats not Helen Thomass only problem. She took issue with an understanding between the administration and a writer from the Huffington Post, who was invited to the White House to ask Obama a question pulled from inquiries sent by individuals in Iran. She asserted the managed news was blatant.



It's called the mainstream media being pissed off that regular people and blogs are finally getting their shot to ask questions. She doesn't even care whether it's a tough question or not. The one question the guy from the Huff asked, Obama dodged if I recalled. 

Helen Thomas is a very respected journalist and asked plenty of tough questions in her career. However, the mainstream media as a whole has failed at asking the tough questions for over the last eight years.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 7, 2009)

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Hey Allie, you need to get back OFF THE WAGON...just the other night, when you said you were drinking, you said that you had a recipient at your work who was born in Hawaii, that had to show their certificate of birth for them to get benefits and you examined his at the same time they had obama's on the internet and that you saw that they were clearly the same and that obama's certificate of birth was real....?
> 
> So girl, what's the story with that?
> 
> Care



In THIS thread, I am addressing the idiotic claim that there's no evidence that Obama is hiding his birth certificate.

He is hiding it. He won't put it on his transparency website, they purged all questions about it on the same site, and he won't authorize the hospital where he says he was born to verify his birth there.

What I think about his actual birth cert is irrelevant to this convo. I'm just pointing out that it's stupid to say there's no evidence that  he's hiding it when obviously he is.

And yes, the Hawaiian birth cert I saw looked just like the one I saw online for Obama. But forgery is rampant, and Obama won't authorize verification.


----------



## Luissa (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> The president yanked the bc from his transparency site. Who knows what is floating on other sites.
> 
> And if there was a question about the circumstances of a president's birth, darned tooting I'd ask to see the evidence.
> 
> ...


You still have not answered if you have ever asked to see any other president's birth certificate. And here is your ugly pictures of Chelsea Clinton, the fact you think they were purged from the internet just shows how much you are off your rocker.
Chelsea Clinton's Life in Photos -- New York Magazine
Yahoo! Image Detail for http://www.netzeitung.de/img/0058/171558-1.jpg

And many of you forget how much they went after he for being ugly with McCain even joining in.
Another memory lapse: Coulter claims "people didn&#39;t go after Chelsea Clinton" | Media Matters for America


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Care4all said:


> FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.



Thats already been shown several times Care, they don't care about the facts. At this point, you could show some of these people a live video of Obama's birth with time, place, and date all clearly marked and they would still say he wasn't born here.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

And you've already shown that you have no comprehension ability.

As I said, the POINT is that the comment that Obama's not hiding his birth certificate is ludicrous.

Whether or not the cert circulated (unauthorized, unverified by Obama) online was authentic is a different topic, and not the one I was addressing.

Let's break this down for the peanut gallery. If you say "The sky is green" and I say, "No, here is the color blue and this is the color of the sky, hence the sky is blue..." and you respond with "Are you saying grass isn't green?" the last question has absolutely nothing to do with the original discussion and proves NOTHING.

Likewise, whether Obama was born in the US or not has NOTHING to do with my observation that the person who said he wasn't hiding it is full of shit. He is hiding it, there's no doubt.

WHY he's hiding it is something different and I haven't offered up any EVIDENCE regarding that. The only evidence I've offered is the evidence that he's hiding it.

Now look up the word "evidence" and start over.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Focus Allie.

Did you lie?


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

> The fact that he no longer allows the public to access his birth certificate online IS FUCKING EVIDENCE THAT HE'S HIDING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.





> He has pulled his birth certificate so it is no longer available to view online. So he is hiding his birth certificate.





> The president yanked the bc from his transparency site



Allie,  are these statements true?

Or did you lie?

Liars are not to be trusted.  They first have to come clean and explain why they lied,  then they can again begin to build trust.

Did you lie?


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Come on Allie,  this is not hard.  When you tell a lie,  there is a reason.  YOu can say something like:

"I really believe in my heart of hearts that Obama isn't a natural US cititzen.  So I made up that claim to support my position.  I'm sorry."

OR you can say:

"I thought I had heard that somewhere but it must not be true.  Sorry."

OR you can say:

"I got that mixed up with the blog post removed from the Transparenct site about his BC.  Sorry."


There are many fairly respectable ways to correct a lie.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 7, 2009)

No, I gave him too much credit. I thought he'd actually had it up on his transparency site and then pulled it.

I should have known better. Thanks for pointing out that it was never there in the first place, so therefore your comment that there's no "evidence" that he's hiding his birth certificate is a lie.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> No, I gave him too much credit. I thought he'd actually had it up on his transparency site and then pulled it.



Thank you Allie.  Now we can move on,  bearing in mind that we will need evidence to support your claims in the future.  OK?




AllieBaba said:


> I should have known better. Thanks for pointing out that it was never there in the first place, so therefore your comment that there's no "evidence" that he's hiding his birth certificate is a lie.



We have now established that the BC was never posted or removed from the transparency site.  THe BC was,  in fact,  made available to Fact Check.ORG,  and they have the photos available online,  as they have been for some time.  Rather than hiding the BC,  it has been made available,  photoed and thoroughly circulated on the web.  The exact opposite of "hide".

Furthermore,  I am assuming that you reject the certified copy that is the sunject of all this?  THe one posted on the internet?  

If you do reject this copy as some sort of fake,  how is that a rational brain figures that someone is hiding the original and also hiding the fake?

Can you explain why someone would make a fake BC and then hide it?  What is your story on why Obama would be hiding the BC that you don't accept anyway?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 7, 2009)

just to clarify:

obama has never offered up a copy of his birth certificate


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Yurt said:


> just to clarify:
> 
> obama has never offered up a copy of his birth certificate



He offered a certified record of his birth.  Personally verified several times over by the Hawaiian Dept. of Vital stats.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > just to clarify:
> ...



it is still not a birth certificate and where is your evidence as to this "several times over"......

just pointing out facts


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...


.

If you're wanting to play word games,  there is no such thing as "birth certificate".  Nor is there any law that states he must provide a "birth certificate."  The simple fact is that the law says Obama must be a natural born citizen of the US.  The certificate offered is acceptable proof of such for every government requirement for proof of such.



> HONOLULU  The states Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.
> 
> The state has received multiple requests for a copy of Obamas birth certificate. State law does not allow officials to release the birth certificate of a person to someone outside of the family. ...
> 
> ...


State Of Hawaii Confirms Obama&#8217;s Birth Certificate | Say Anything: North Dakota's Most Popular Political Blog

The certificate presented by Obama is the first verification offered by the State of Hawaii.  Subsequently,  they furhter verified the BC with this public statement.

Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

"





> Yes," said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. "That's what Dr. Fukino is saying."



Obama Hawaiian-born: Citizen for sure: The Swamp


You can dig almost endlessly and find verification by several different people with the Health Department in Hawaii.  Thay have,  in fact,  made no secret that they are weary of verifying this birth.  

Now,  all I ask is that the rest of you provide credible information to support your claims.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 7, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> If you're wanting to play word games,  there is no such thing as "birth certificate".  Nor is there any law that states he must provide a "birth certificate."  The simple fact is that the law says Obama must be a natural born citizen of the US.  The certificate offered is acceptable proof of such for every government requirement for proof of such.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whether people want it to admit it or not, the "birthers" movement is partially motivated by racism. I'm not saying it holds true for everybody who believes that theory, not at all. Rather some people just don't want to believe a black man won the Presidency and instead claim he's from Africa.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > If you're wanting to play word games,  there is no such thing as "birth certificate".  Nor is there any law that states he must provide a "birth certificate."  The simple fact is that the law says Obama must be a natural born citizen of the US.  The certificate offered is acceptable proof of such for every government requirement for proof of such.
> ...




I wouldn't knwo one way or the other,  although I might suspect.  

In any case,  the way to make an argument is with facts. I have presented support for everything I have claimed.  The rest are not providing evidence and even telling out right lies.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 7, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Allie, you need to get back OFF THE WAGON...just the other night, when you said you were drinking, you said that you had a recipient at your work who was born in Hawaii, that had to show their certificate of birth for them to get benefits and you examined his at the same time they had obama's on the internet and that you saw that they were clearly the same and that obama's certificate of birth was real....?
> ...



PLEASE Stop being silly for the sake of being partisan.

The article specifically states that the Hospital NEVER ASKED OBAMA to release his birth information...so to say that obama has refused to give the hospital the release of his birth information is an OUTRIGHT LIE.  The hospital already acknowledged that he was born there when they made his statement of being born there, in a public setting....

Second, the State of Hawaii uses the certification of live birth AS THE LEGAL FORM FOR PROOF OF BIRTH, for every single citizen of hawaii, this is what they issue.  If this is good for every single Government Agency then it is a LEGAL FORM, and NOTARIZED AT THAT...

Along with THE FACT that the governor, and the Head of the Dept of Health VERIFIED that Obama does have a birth certificate that matches up to his certification of Live fricking birth....and that IT IS NOT A FRAUD.

Third, the Health Department of Vital statistics issued a notification of live births in hawaii every sunday in the Honolulu Advisory news paper back in 1961, and the hawaiian State Health Dept issued a notice of the Birth of Obama on Sunday August 13, 1961 in hawaii in the Honolulu Advisor, along with all other babies born in hawaii on august 4, 1961.  Refute this allie instead of mouthing off like a thoughtless partisan hack...why would this notice be put in the paper BY THE STATE OF HAWAII back in 1961 for Obama's birth in Hawaii?

Fourth, on the notarized certification of Live Birth in Hawaii, it has a date that Obama's Birth was processed with our government and made official with the Health Department Registrar of vital statistics on August 8th, 1961...4 days after he was born....the STUPID ASS article that Pale posted and ALL OF YOU, NEVER ADDRESS THIS ISSUE and this PROVES obama did NOTget his birth certificate ONE YEAR LATER as pale and the article has said AND is speculating and thus the reason to get his original blah blah blah...his ORIGINAL WAS FILED with the State of Hawaii 4 days after his birth...if he were born in Africa, HOW IN THE WORLD COULD THIS HAVE BEEN DONE?

IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN DONE if he were born in Kenya, as the LIARS keep saying?

Oh, and the FEDERAL State Department VERIFIED his citizenship for Presidency....TAKE IT UP WITH THEM....

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE????  

Where in the heck is your deductive reasoning, your logic, the brains GOD GAVE YOU?

ENOUGH....playing dumb like this is BEYOND REASON, at this point....

Care


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Care4all said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...




I agree.

But in courtesy to the opposition, allow me to state their well reasoned,  usual response:

"Un uh....is not.....moron."


----------



## Yurt (Jul 7, 2009)

i was not playing word games, merely pointing out your repeated errors sweet willy....

and no, the state only said they have a certificate on file, it does not mention anything at all about what is contained in the certificate....which begs the question:

if hawaii has stated his original is on file, why doen't obama bother releasing it so everyone can STFU....

if you are going to rest your case on hearsay, why is it you don't believe obama's family saying he was born in kenya?  or any other hearsay....because all the state did was say one is on file, that is it, nothing at all about what is contained in it.  

now stop saying obama has released a copy of the certificate, that is plain false and i have corrected you numerous times on it.  and again, this whole thing is silly, if the state is going to say one is on file, it is stupid for obama to not release it.....he promised transparency, yet he won't release a silly certificate so people who do not believe him based on the certificate can let it go

simple, this is all on obama's hands


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 7, 2009)

Yurt said:


> i was not playing word games, merely pointing out your repeated errors sweet willy....
> 
> and no, the state only said they have a certificate on file, it does not mention anything at all about what is contained in the certificate....which begs the question:
> 
> ...




THere is no flaw in my arguments.  They are based on verifiable evidence.  



> and no, the state only said they have a certificate on file, it does not mention anything at all about what is contained in the certificate....



This is untrue.  A lie.  The certification states the name,  the parents,  the date and place of birth.  It is certified as a true account of Obamas birth and the information is certified as being the information contained in the original.




> *if* hawaii has stated his original is on file, why doen't obama bother releasing it so everyone can STFU....




There is no "if" Yurt.  The state of Hawaii has stated this several times.  I already provided you with links to statements, interviews and press releases made by the State of Hawaii,  verifying the veracity of Obama's BC.

Obama has already released his BC.  It has been verified and published for all to see.  It is the acceptable BC for all local, state and federal agencies to determine US birth.




> if you are going to rest your case on hearsay, why is it you don't believe obama's family saying he was born in kenya?



My case rest on the BC issued by the state of Hawaii,  the subsequent statements made by the state of Hawaii and the available images of the BC,  posted and verified by various sources.  Your claim that a BC certified by the State of Hawaii and issued to Barak Obama is "hearsay" is absurd.  Your claim that subsequent statements released by the very officials who are charged with verifying births in Hawaii is "hearsay" is absurd.  

Obama's family has never claimed he wasn't born in Hawaii.  If you have a credible source for this,  present it.



> now stop saying obama has released a copy of the certificate, that is plain false and i have corrected you numerous times on it.



Obama has acquired and released a Hawaiin issued BC,  certified as a true reflection of his original BC,  kept on file,  in accordance with Hawaiian law.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 8, 2009)

I thought we agreed he hadn't done that. Would you provide a link to the birth certificate OBAMA provided and authorized?


----------



## DavidS (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> So instead of Berry Soetoro saying... "hey everybody out there, I was born in this hospital, and you should all believe me," why doesn't he release his "REAL" birth certificate and "PROVE IT?"
> 
> Oh yes... the question no one can answer.



Oh, I dunno... because he's very busy running the country right now and fulfilling the fantasies of conspiracy theorists isn't on his top 100 list.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 8, 2009)

Luissa said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > *BORN IN THE USA?
> ...


of course it would be a HIPPA violation


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> I thought we agreed he hadn't done that. Would you provide a link to the birth certificate OBAMA provided and authorized?





> Born in the U.S.A.
> August 21, 2008
> Updated: November 1, 2008
> The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
> ...



Allie please go to this link and scroll it, the notorized with the State seal, birth certificate of Obama is there...

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.


----------



## strollingbones (Jul 8, 2009)

care becareful..allie is immune to facts....


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Lies and deceit ALWAYS unravel in time, just as this is...


*Obama Birth Mystery: More Than 1 Hospital​*


*Myth-busting website, news articles say president not born in location he claims*

By Joe Kovacs and Jerome Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

More than eight months after Barack Obama was elected president, the mystery surrounding his precise birthplace is deepening as the myth-busting website Snopes.com &#8211; along with several news agencies and an Obama community blog &#8211; directly contradict the president's own claim regarding the hospital in which he was born.

In an official letter signed by Obama on White House stationery, the president celebrates his birth at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu, Hawaii. The facility has posted that letter on its website, along with video of the letter being read in public. 






But according to Snopes, the popular online hoax-buster that many rely on as the final word on both important and frivolous stories, Obama was born at a different hospital in the Hawaiian capital.

In Snopes' entry concerning allegations that Obama is a "radical Muslim," the site addresses the birth history of the commander in chief, stating, "Barack Hussein Obama was born on 4 August 1961 at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii."

WND took a screen shot of the entry and highlighted the name of the hospital. 






In this screenshot of Snopes.com highlighted by WND, the myth-busting website asserts President Obama was born at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, not the Kapi'olani Medical Center in which Obama claims to have been born.

(Note: Within 90 minutes of this WND story being posted, Snopes swapped the hospital of birth to indicate Obama was born at Kapi'olani, but noted some ambiguity by stating, "News accounts have also variously placed his birth as having occurred at Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii.")

Interestingly, in Snopes' entry focusing on the natural-born citizenship controversy, no mention is made of the birth hospital.

But Snopes is not alone in asserting Obama was born at a hospital other than the one he personally claims.

A number of news articles published both in the U.S. and abroad name Queen's Medical Center &#8211; not Kapi'olani &#8211; as the correct birthplace.

A United Press International report from Nov. 4 states:

"Obama described his birth at Queen's Medical Center in Hawaii Aug. 4, 1961, to a young white woman from Kansas and a father of Luo ethnicity from Nyanza Province in Kenya, as an 'all-America' story transcending orthodox racial stereotypes and experience."






A November 2004 report from the Rainbow Edition News Letter, published by the Education Laboratory School in Hawaii, noted in its lead sentence:

"Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961 at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii."


There's more, MUCH more, for any rational person that can see that not only Snopes.com has lost it's credibility by lying for obama, but many people are trying to sweep this issue under the rug, but they're NOT being successful. Obama is hiding a multitude of his documents, B.C., passport, college transcripts, school enrollments, and more.... why? Lies have a way of coming back to bite you in the ass, and now obama lying about where he was born IS biting him in the ass. Here is COLD, HARD, PROOF, and it is NOT a CONSPIRACY... Obama birth mystery: More than 1 hospital


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Obama Birth Mystery: More Than 1 Hospital, This is NOT a CONSPIRACY, it's FACT!


 
Jerome Corsi of WorldNetDaily is known worldwide for always reporting the FACTS!


----------



## Modbert (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Lies and deceit ALWAYS unravel in time, just as this is...
> 
> 
> *Obama Birth Mystery: More Than 1 Hospital​*
> ...





> "News accounts have also variously placed his birth as having occurred at Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii.



Since when has Barack Obama become News Accounts? Wouldn't the blame in this situation lay at the feet of the media for not fact-checking rather than all of a sudden think "Omgz! Obama wasn't born here!"

All the time Pale, you accuse the media of being wrong, being liars, not checking their facts, etc but you think they're spot on about Obama. Oh the delicious and hilarious hypocrisy and irony on your part.


----------



## Lycurgus (Jul 8, 2009)

*This man is a phoney and a poser, so nothing would surprise me. Given the money, power and manipulation which placed him in the White House, we should not be surprised at any falsehood uncovered about him. *


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Since when has Barack Obama become News Accounts? Wouldn't the blame in this situation lay at the feet of the media for not fact-checking rather than all of a sudden think "Omgz! Obama wasn't born here!"
> 
> All the time Pale, you accuse the media of being wrong, being liars, not checking their facts, etc but you think they're spot on about Obama. Oh the delicious and hilarious hypocrisy and irony on your part.



Well, it's OBVIOUS you DIDN'T READ EVERYTHING at the link, as expected with such an avid, zealot, obama ass kisser as yourself, but obama has even contradicted HIMSELF, as his own campaign website claimed he was born at Queens, and now this latest letter FROM HIM claims he was born else where. He lied. He's been caught in a lie. His own lie and no one else's.

Explain that.


----------



## Lycurgus (Jul 8, 2009)

*Robert, you one of these folks who will choke till breathless finding ways to defend this poser of a president. When the dollar collapses completely, look in the mirror and thank yourself! *


----------



## Big Black Dog (Jul 8, 2009)

Well, according to your own accounts, and your willingness to agree with Snopes, it is time to lay this matter to rest.  It appears that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii.  The exact hospital may be in question but they seem to agree he was born in Hawaii.  I'm not an Obama fan, but it appears to me that this case is closed.


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

WND has reported that among the documentation  besides his birth certificate  *not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois
state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.*

That may very well be intentional on the part of Obama, who used his first full day in residence in the Oval Office to issue an executive order restricting the release of presidential records. 

Obama birth mystery: More than 1 hospital


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Big Black Dog said:


> Well, according to your own accounts, and your willingness to agree with Snopes, it is time to lay this matter to rest.  It appears that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii.  The exact hospital may be in question but they seem to agree he was born in Hawaii.  I'm not an Obama fan, but it appears to me that this case is closed.



Just when the controversy starts, you say it's closed. My God man, can you be any more apathetic?

Obama HIMSELF is caught in this lie, and you just say, "this case is closed?!" Don't you give a rats ass WHY obama LIED about the hospital in which he was born? Why would he lie? How about because he wasn't born in Hawaii AT ALL? See the problem with lying is you can never tell the exact, same lie twice. An inconsistency will always pop up, as it has in this case. The man lied, and this case is FAR from CLOSED. It's JUST OPENING UP!


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)




----------



## Ravi (Jul 8, 2009)

Wow, I'm shocked! The media initially reported something incorrectly. The horror!


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Wow, I'm shocked! The media initially reported something incorrectly. The horror!



Wrong.... this lie started with obama HIMSELF, and is ending with obama HIMSELF, and the "Library of Congress" is a far cry from the "media." If you'd READ the full article you'd know that, but I know you little tingle up your leg obama worshipers do NOT like to read BAD THINGS about your MESSIAH.

No amount of spinning or deflecting by you obamabots is going to change the FACT that he LIED, and now he got CAUGHT!


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

*Obama calls Jakarta his 'old hometown'*


*Was president citizen of world's most populous Muslim nation?*

By Aaron Klein
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

JERUSALEM &#8211; In a recent small roundtable press briefing, President Obama referred to Jakarta, Indonesia, as his old home town while he reminisced about his schoolboy days in the world's most populous Muslim country.

During the presidential campaign last year, questions were raised as to whether Obama ever possessed Indonesian citizenship, with the subject first being broached last summer by WND after a photograph emerged of Obama's school registration papers as a child in Indonesia showing the presidential candidate listed as a "Muslim" with "Indonesian" citizenship.

Now WND has learned that in June, in comments that did not receive media attention, Obama discussed his "hometown" of Jakarta, twice using the word "home" in reference to the Indonesian city, according to a White House transcript.

*"Oh, I need to come to Indonesia soon," said Obama. "I expect to be traveling to Asia at some point within the next year, and I would be surprised if when I came to Asia I did not stop by my old home town of Jakarta."
*
Obama was speaking during a briefing with a handful of Mideast and Asian reporters just after his major address from Cairo to the Islamic world in June. Obama was responding specifically to an Indonesian reporter who asked why the president didn't deliver his speech from Indonesia, which has more Muslims than Egypt.

Continued Obama: "In some ways, going to Indonesia would almost be cheating, because I would have a home court advantage. Not only am I personally close to the culture and have a sister who's half Indonesian, but I think that, frankly, the relationship between the United States and Indonesia has generally been strong." 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103375


----------



## Ravi (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I'm shocked! The media initially reported something incorrectly. The horror!
> ...


Sorry, he's not my Messaih, Pole Rider.

Dig up the audio quote of Obama saying he was born in Queen's Medical Center instead of some editorialized garbage and you might no be an epic failure.


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Ravi said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Well little miss ravioli ****, the EPIC FAIL is YOUR'S, because of your FAILURE to properly EDUCATE yourself on this issue... yes, obama claimed he was born in Queen's Medical Center, and then just RECENTLY with THIS LETTER claimed he was born at Kapi' olani Medical Center, so THANK YOU for helping illustrate obama's LIE with your IGNORANCE... (now wonder people consider you the board liberal buffoon who doesn't give a rats ass about the truth)....


----------



## MaggieMae (Jul 8, 2009)

You mean Corsi & Friends are not smart enough to photoshop the White House logo above the address on the letterhead?

_ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ_


----------



## strollingbones (Jul 8, 2009)

amazing...you seem to think if you say it enough it makes it true.....

obama is not american

palin is smart...

too bad it doesnt work that way


----------



## strollingbones (Jul 8, 2009)

and this tread again is in the wrong place.....you can keep posting the same bullshit...over and over...but it is still bullshit


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

So the argument now is that the wrong hospital,  in Hawaii,  was reported at some point?  And this demonstrates that Obama isn't a US citizen how?  

Does anyone think that Obama actually remembers his birth?


----------



## Luissa (Jul 8, 2009)

I am thinking the media is the one making the mistake here along with your little website.
All this probably has to do with the fact both hospitals were started by Queen's, and I am betting they are owned by the same corporation.


----------



## Luissa (Jul 8, 2009)

My question is do you think his Grandparents were even in on it back in 1961? ANd also you think that his mom went to Kenya had Obama and then immediatly went back to Hawaii rented or bought a house and then put an annoucment in the paper in the same month. Two paper at that just to make sure that in the event he might run for President one day.

whatreallyhappened.com: OBAMA'S BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENTS


----------



## Lonestar_logic (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> So the argument now is that the wrong hospital,  in Hawaii,  was reported at some point?  And this demonstrates that Obama isn't a US citizen how?
> 
> Does anyone think that Obama actually remembers his birth?



Do you know where you were born? Obviously Barry doesn't.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Lonestar_logic said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > So the argument now is that the wrong hospital,  in Hawaii,  was reported at some point?  And this demonstrates that Obama isn't a US citizen how?
> ...



I don't recall where I was born from my own memory.  Like everyone else,  I have to depend on what my documents say.  Obama's document says Hawaii.  He wouldn't know any different.  Because he can't remember that far back.  

You may as well attack any other person with a birth certificate and claim they are a liar.  They can't tell you anymore than Obama can.  Just what is on their BC.  And we have that.  And that is the only record.  You idiots are asking the impossible.  Which is why no one is trying to satify you.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

good lord, stop saying he has produced a copy of the certificate....its simply  not true....the certification does not contain everything in the certificate

for those that laugh at those who don't believe obama's birth, all you have is hearsay and a certification....you don't have the best evidence....thus, while it is probable your evidence is better, it is still a judgment call as a copy of the original birth certificate (which may contain glaring errors that prove something very negative, even the wrong hospital, physician etc....) would resolve these issues and the certification cannot.

those are the facts, you guys are arguing as much opinion as those you riducule....it is simply mind boggling that obama simply won't release a copy

i mean just look at how it is still an effing topic, come on mr. transparent, until you release it you will have people talking about it...


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Barak Obama produced a record of his birth satisfactory to determine his place of birth.  Sealed and verified by the Hawaii Dept. of Health.

End of story.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> good lord, stop saying he has produced a copy of the certificate....its simply  not true....the certification does not contain everything in the certificate
> 
> for those that laugh at those who don't believe obama's birth, all you have is hearsay and a certification....you don't have the best evidence....thus, while it is probable your evidence is better, it is still a judgment call as a copy of the original birth certificate (which may contain glaring errors that prove something very negative, even the wrong hospital, physician etc....) would resolve these issues and the certification cannot.
> 
> ...


he has produced what the State of Hawaii sends out when you request a replacement copy of your BC
it satifies all leal requirements for proof of birth
its time to get off this dead horse and move on to more substantive matters, like cap & trade and the massive deficit spending


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > good lord, stop saying he has produced a copy of the certificate....its simply  not true....the certification does not contain everything in the certificate
> ...



divecon.....obama could ask for a copy of the original, i've told you this before, why you keep insisting on this line of reasoning is beyond me.  it is ONLY prima facie evidence divecon, it says so right on the form.  the issue here isn't a simple whether he was born here or not, people honestly believe there is something nefarious in the birth certificate, and i guarantee you that if any agency or court thought the same the would absolutely be within their legal rights to demand a copy of the original as HI claims the original exists.  it is the height of stupidity for obama not to release it.

 it is obviously not a dead horse, as evidenced by people's continuing interest in it.  and why is it that divecon....because obama won't simply produce a copy of the original and shut the people up.  

furthermore, as if people can't focus on more than one issue, as if all those who believe obama is not a citizen because there is something in his original BC are only posting in this thread and on this issue....do you only talk about cap and trade or do you get into insult fests with others...and talk about other issues?  i've seen you post in general talk forum, why aren't you focusing solely on cap and trade?  trust me, this is not a distract, for me at least....


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Barak Obama produced a record of his birth satisfactory to determine his place of birth.  Sealed and verified by the Hawaii Dept. of Health.
> 
> End of story.



and that is YOUR opinion, others do not believe so.  as i told divecon, if any agency or court wanted a copy of the original, they would be entitled to it.  that american citizens are not entitled to it is astounding.  this not simply a matter of privacy, this guy is the president of the united states of america.  to deny citizens the right to challenge the constitutional qualifications by wanting to see a copy of the original is wrong.  

i wish this talk would end as well, i have no doubt obama is a citizen, and since the original allegedly exists, why not provide it and move people on.....obama is a liar for promising to be transparent and fight every smear and allegation...


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Barak Obama produced a record of his birth satisfactory to determine his place of birth.  Sealed and verified by the Hawaii Dept. of Health.
> ...




The courts don't doubt he is a citizen either.

Next.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



why do you continue to post nonsense....they didn't rule one way or the either, so your point is pure conjection....this is exactly why i post in these threads, because you and a few others spread lies about the facts


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



What courts, you blithering nitwit? What the hell do the courts have to do with anything? They don't bring charges or demand proof. A case has to come before them.

Good grief.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

No court has found reason, jurisdiction or standing.  It has been tried,  and failed.

Next.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

more meadowmuffins from sweet willy....they found NO STANDING

they did not rule or decide anything on the merits, they said citizens lack standing to bring a claim, not because they believe anything about obama


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> more meadowmuffins from sweet willy....they found NO STANDING
> 
> they did not rule or decide anything on the merits, they said citizens lack standing to bring a claim, not because they believe anything about obama



No,  that's not the only finding.  Another one was tossed and thoroughly trounced by the judge as utterly frivilous and a waste of the courts time.  Nothing about standing,  nothing about procedure,  just a whole lot about STUPID.  In fact,  after dismissing the case as frivilous,  he demanded the plantiffs attorney's return and explain why they shouldn't have to pay Obama's attorneys.



> WASHINGTON - A federal judge today threw out a lawsuit questioning President Barack Obama's citizenship, lambasting the case as a waste of the court's time and suggesting the plaintiff's attorney may have to compensate the president's lawyer.
> 
> "This case, if it were allowed to proceed, would deserve mention in one of those books that seek to prove that the law is foolish or that America has too many lawyers with not enough to do," U.S. District Judge James Robertson said in his written opinion.


Judge Assails Lawsuit Questioning Obama Citizenship

The case was tossed because it was foolish,  dumb ass.


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

And the same chorus line of liberal shit bags lines up to sing the same old tired song in defense of their messiah with nothing more than insults and hot air for his defense. Talk about spewing the same old shit.... ppphht.... you people are complete idiots. I keep posting NEW things, you keep singing the SAME OLD SONG.... WE LOVE OBAMA.... NONE OF IT'S TRUE.... problem is, you've done NOTHING to prove ANYTHING, whereas I HAVE.

An idiot is an idiot is an idiot, and it's becoming more evident every day that you morons that voted for obama are IDIOTS, ESPECIALLY the ones that continue to LICK HIS ASS in the midst of ALL HIS FAILURES AND LIES THUS FAR.

You people are amazingly PATHETIC.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> more meadowmuffins from sweet willy....they found NO STANDING
> 
> they did not rule or decide anything on the merits, they said citizens lack standing to bring a claim, not because they believe anything about obama



Who did the court say had standing Yurt?

....the Federal State Department, who was in charge of verifying all presidential candidates eligibility?

If the State Dept was not satisfied with the Sealed, Certification of Live Birth for Obama from Hawaii, would it be them that would have standing?

And are you certain the supreme court took on this issue just to say, oops, you don't have standing because you are not the right person bringing suit and this is what happened?

Do you have a link to what the court said, regarding standing on this case?

Could "not having proper standing" in this case mean that the case is FRIVOLOUS, based on the preliminary evidence? 

Do you have a favored Legal Link that is on the internet that defines these legal terms for a layman like me, Yurt?

And also, what is missing on the original copy of the birth certificate is the mother's personal Doctor's name that delivered her child  with hospital name, and the inches in length and birth weight of her child, with witness signatures, usually the nurse attending the Doctor/patient.

Why is any of this very personal information, important for ANYONE to know about Obama, if he was born in Hawaii and is a citizen, which is what the Sealed Certification of Birth does...

What do you and others POSSIBLY think you can find on his original that is not on his Certification of Live Birth in Hawaii,  that would not make him being born in Honolulu, Hawaii?

It seems so frivolous and like such partisan hackery, and *harassment *to me and honestly, beyond reason.

His original birth certificate was processed with the State of Hawaii on August 8, 1961 with the Health Registrar....just 4 days after his birth....does your logic really say there is standing for anyone to insist that he was born in Kenya?

And if he was born in Kenya, what legally makes you think that he still is not an American citizen at Birth according to our laws? 

And isn't an American citizen at birth a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN?

Care


----------



## Luissa (Jul 8, 2009)

why do we need to keep presenting new stuff when what we have presented proves you wrong every time?


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> And the same chorus line of liberal shit bags lines up to sing the same old tired song in defense of their messiah with nothing more than insults and hot air for his defense. Talk about spewing the same old shit.... ppphht.... you people are complete idiots. I keep posting NEW things, you keep singing the SAME OLD SONG.... WE LOVE OBAMA.... NONE OF IT'S TRUE.... problem is, you've done NOTHING to prove ANYTHING, whereas I HAVE.
> 
> An idiot is an idiot is an idiot, and it's becoming more evident every day that you morons that voted for obama are IDIOTS, ESPECIALLY the ones that continue to LICK HIS ASS in the midst of ALL HIS FAILURES AND LIES THUS FAR.
> 
> You people are amazingly PATHETIC.




No,  you have not provided proof of jack.  

The proof is that we have a legal document that verifies the place of birth.  We have public and offcial statements that attest to the veracity of the document. 

You have a bunch of bullshit.


----------



## aDrag (Jul 8, 2009)

So what, you think he's gonna not be president any more because you think you've found proof he wasn't born in this country?  He's the president and a bunch of jackoffs complaining about his birth certificate aren't going to depose him, sorry.


----------



## bigdaddygtr (Jul 8, 2009)

Thank you Pale Rider for being such a douschebag and keeping this issue up so that people will continue to vote against your beloved Republicans

Keep it up moron


----------



## L.K.Eder (Jul 8, 2009)

what do you want?

a medal?


----------



## Luissa (Jul 8, 2009)

no a cupcake!


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Luissa said:


> why do we need to keep presenting new stuff when what we have presented proves you wrong every time?



You haven't provided jack shit, other than your obama ass licking spin and bull shit, and NONE of it is NEW.


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > And the same chorus line of liberal shit bags lines up to sing the same old tired song in defense of their messiah with nothing more than insults and hot air for his defense. Talk about spewing the same old shit.... ppphht.... you people are complete idiots. I keep posting NEW things, you keep singing the SAME OLD SONG.... WE LOVE OBAMA.... NONE OF IT'S TRUE.... problem is, you've done NOTHING to prove ANYTHING, whereas I HAVE.
> ...



Show me.... let's see it slick... right now...


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

aDrag said:


> So what, you think he's gonna not be president any more because you think you've found proof he wasn't born in this country?  He's the president and a bunch of jackoffs complaining about his birth certificate aren't going to depose him, sorry.



Another piece of pig shit decides it's better to piss on the The Constitution than obey it. Good going shit stain. You should be proud of yourself.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Stand up and salute the President of the United States,  Barak Hussein Obama.  

That is your president Pale.  You should respect him as such.  Or are you some sort of traitor?


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

YOU PEOPLE are the very reason I and MILLIONS of others are keeping this issue alive, and as it's going, more and more REASONABLE people are finally starting to wonder...

**WHY DOESN'T OBAMA RELEASE HIS REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE?**

If there's nothing to hide, if he was really born in Hawaii as he states, but can't make up his mind which hospital, then why does he have a million dollar team of lawyers HIDING EVERYTHING that could PROVE IT?

Well folks, your insults here won't shut me and millions of other up, and your insults outside of this place won't shut me and millions of others up. I have a SIGN IN MY FRONT YARD that says's "WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE," and I've had people ASK me what that means, and when I tell them, THEY HAD NO IDEA, but NOW are VERY CURIOUS. So my suspicion is it will be I who gets the LAST LAUGH and INSULT on this issue, and it's going to be REALLY, REALLY SWEET.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> YOU PEOPLE are the very reason I and MILLIONS of others are keeping this issue alive, and as it's going, more and more REASONABLE people are finally starting to wonder...
> 
> **WHY DOESN'T OBAMA RELEASE HIS REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE?**
> 
> If there's nothing to hide, if he was really born in Hawaii as he states, but can't make up his mind which hospital, then why does he have a million dollar team of lawyers HIDING EVERYTHING that could PROVE IT?



Judge Robertson is trying to make the last jackass to file a lawsuit pay for those lawyers.  I think it's a good idea.

In fact,  we should start a legal defense fund for our president.  Can I put you down for a C note pale?


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Stand up and salute the President of the United States,  Barak Hussein Obama.
> 
> That is your president Pale.  You should respect him as such.  Or are you some sort of traitor?



No, he's not my President. I invoke my constitutional right to fight it.

And I see you decided to forgo the embarrassment of showing obama's "birth certificate." Good decision, because NO ONES EVER SEEN IT, let alone your pathetic ass.


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Jul 8, 2009)

*Thread Moved*


----------



## Luissa (Jul 8, 2009)

google obama's birth certificate, they show a picture of it and at the top it says Live Birth.
I also posted two annoucments that his parents put in the paper.
In order to pull it off Obama would have been planning this since birth.


----------



## pete (Jul 8, 2009)

Luissa said:


> google obama's birth certificate, they show a picture of it and at the top it says Live Birth.
> I also posted two annoucments that his parents put in the paper.
> In order to pull it off Obama would have been planning this since birth.



I guess money is counterfeited from birth also ....


----------



## pete (Jul 8, 2009)

Lets say for the sake of the followers that he was born in hawaii and is natural born.

Why does he spend so much to hide it?
If you are on a jury with your peers and there is reasonable doubt ... 
Why hid his transcripts maybe because of grant applied for claiming citizenship else where to take advantage of the system ... so now hes a cheat and a fraud as well as a thief!!

Simply release them and prove it


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Hiding?

I suppose you dipshits are hiding your brains?

Show us your brains!

I knew it.  There is something wrong with your brains.  If there wasn't,  you wouldn't be hiding them.


----------



## strollingbones (Jul 8, 2009)

at least it got moved to the correct forum...


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 8, 2009)

Good to see Corsi made it out of Africa and is back to making a dollar the best way he knows how; exploiting the paranoa of the right.



> On October 7, 2008, Corsi and his media consultant Tim Bueler were detained by immigration authorities in Kenya while doing further research related to the book, allegedly for failure to have a work permit. Corsi had scheduled a press conference to announce new research proving that as Senator Obama had raised a million dollars for the election campaign of Kenyan prime minister Raila Odinga, and had helped run Odinga's campaign as a strategist, including setting the stage for the campaign of violence and bloodshed that had brought Odinga to power after a disputed election. The meeting was interrupted by Kenyan immigration officials when they detained Corsi.[59][60] Corsi was eventually deported, [61] [62]



Corsi and WND have no credibility left to lose on this issue.

Especially WND which has essentially become a depository for those on the right who are entirely whacked out.  

I don't mind, it serves it's purpose.  Like flypaper.


----------



## PubliusInfinitum (Jul 8, 2009)

Big Black Dog said:


> Well, according to your own accounts, and your willingness to agree with Snopes, it is time to lay this matter to rest.  It appears that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii.  The exact hospital may be in question but they seem to agree he was born in Hawaii.  I'm not an Obama fan, but it appears to me that this case is closed.



The matter isn't resolved AT ALL...

The exact hopsital at which one is born is not a hit or miss item... for Pete's sake; the longer this hangs on the more obvious it becomes that our glorious leader is not a naturally born citizen of the US; thus NOT Constitutionally qualifed to BE the President of the US.  What the Left is saying is: "it's no big deal and the Constitutional requirment is simply not relevant... which is why the left is not to be taken seriously; on the whole the ideological left stands AGAINST the fundamentals which define that which is American.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

i've posted links and cases regarding standing....and YES, scotus would take the case to declare *citizens* do not have standing....

your arguments as to why anyone else doesn't bring the claim is a red herring, we are talking about citizens having the right to demand proof.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Does anyone have the constitutional requirement about which hospital you are born in?  I had it here somewhere but seems to have been lost.


BC says he was born in Hawaii.

End of stroy.


----------



## PubliusInfinitum (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Stand up and salute the President of the United States,  Barak Hussein Obama.
> 
> That is your president Pale.  You should respect him as such.  Or are you some sort of traitor?



He isn't MY President.. I wouldn't walk across the street to spit on his ass if he were on FIRE.  He's a Subversive... plain and simple.

The good news is that in 2012, he will go the way of the political wind... and when Americans again find federal power; we'll simple reverse his Marxist bullshit and return the US to it's principled, liberty sustaining roots.

If he tries to stop that... well he'll get the Honduras treatment, minus the 'exile option' and likely end up in Gitmo his damn self...  with the rest of the Muslim extremists.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > more meadowmuffins from sweet willy....they found NO STANDING
> ...



and you call me a dumbass....i'm talking about the main berg suit that was tossed for lack of standing solely because the court said the citizens could not prove harm....IOW, citizens have no right to bring a claim...the scotus also rejected the claim on the same grounds....

apparently you believe your last word is always right, so there is no further point in talking truth with you as all you do is present bullshit.


----------



## PubliusInfinitum (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Does anyone have the constitutional requirement about which hospital you are born in?  I had it here somewhere but seems to have been lost.
> 
> 
> BC says he was born in Hawaii.
> ...



Uh... No... 'the story' won't do... we actually need THE FACTS: and part and parcel of those FACTS are the SPECIFICS of one's BIRTH... "I was born in hawaii in '61 and here's a lossely built certificate which states that I was certifiably born ALIVE... isn't  sufficient.

YOU think IT IS... YOU DESPERTAELY WANT IT TO BE... but it's not.  

The guy is a Marxist plant... and it IS a conspiracy and it's a BEAUTY!


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


>


 
How come that letter looks _*so*_ absolutely authentic?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

LMAO....sweet willy's link contains a big fat lie:



> In response last summer, Obama's campaign posted his Hawaiian birth certificate



face the facts, no court has ever heard the case on the merits, merely give perfunctory opinions based not on all the evidence, but on some evidence.  it is the height of anti americanism to not allow people to demand proof, the best evidence of a president's constitutional eligibility.....



> Robertson ordered plaintiff's attorney John Hemenway of Colorado Springs, Colo., to show why he hasn't violated court rules barring frivolous and harassing cases and shouldn't have to pay Obama's attorney, Bob Bauer, for his time arguing that the case should be thrown ou



and what were the results sweet willy....was it actually ever ruled frivolous?  you're again making stuff up


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> LMAO....sweet willy's link contains a big fat lie:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is no lie.  His BC was posted,  is posted,  you can find it anywhere.  

The case has been rejected for being frivilous.  

Your claims are frivilous.  It is not reasonable to suspect that the Hawaiian BC,  the same BC that is acceptable as proof of US birth for any purpose,  is not adequate to prove his place of birth.

The Health Department in Hawaii has repeatedly verified that the BC is a true reflection of the original.  

You Fail.


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 8, 2009)

"Obama Birth Mystery: More Than 1 Hospital, This is NOT a CONSPIRACY, it's FACT! "

The *FACT* is that this thread is in the _CONSPIRACY THEORIES FORUM_.

Therefore, this is a *CONSPIRACY*.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Let's take a look at the opinion of Justice James Robertson.



> Plaintiff having invoked both diversity and the federal
> interpleader statute, 28 U.S.C. § 1355, I do have jurisdiction.
> Because plaintiffs only claim invokes the interpleader statute,
> however, the suit must be dismissed for failure to state a claim.
> ...




Dismissed as frivilous.




> Because it
> appears that the complaint in this case may have been presented
> for an improper purpose such as to harass; and that the
> interpleader claims and other legal contentions of plaintiff are
> ...



The attorney was required to defend himself from defense fees that can be awarded for the filing of a frivilous suit.


Read the whole opinion here.  It's a hoot.

Philip Berg Loses ANOTHER Frivolous Case Against President Obama: Hollister v. Soetoro DEAD « Real Democracy


----------



## Chimera (Jul 8, 2009)

Corsi. LOL. And where does Larry Sinclair stand on this?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > LMAO....sweet willy's link contains a big fat lie:
> ...



why is it called a birth certifiCATION....it is NOT a certifiCATE...and youre lying that they said it was a "true reflection of the original"  flat out lying....they never said that, a true relfection would be a copy moron

why bother, you're lying outright


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 8, 2009)

brownlou said:


> Wow! It must be so sad to be you.
> You must be so disappointed that the republican party is so stupid as to let Obama be President. You must be so disappointed that the Clinton campaign let Obama win the nomination.
> You cannot honestly believe that these people would allow someone you think is not a natural born citizen serve in the White House.
> Give it a rest.
> ...



Like I said before, the truth will come out, long after it's too late to do anything about it.  I don't believe Obama is a native born American citizen, nor was McCain.  Congress actually passed a law to make McCain eligible to be president, which according to our constitution they can't do....this is why McCain didn't make a big deal about Obama.  The truth is that we've been sold out by both the republicans and the democrats and until you people stop supporting them, we will continue to lose ground and become the 3rd world nation our wealth and corporations want us to be.


----------



## Political Junky (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Lies and deceit ALWAYS unravel in time, just as this is...
> 
> 
> *Obama Birth Mystery: More Than 1 Hospital​*
> ...


Oh, World Net Daily is reliable and unbiased ... NOT.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



yurt, it is not called a Birth Certification either...  It is called:

State of Hawaii
Certification of Live Birth

Why not sue the State of Hawaii, If you do not accept what they deem their legal Certification of Birth?


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> i've posted links and cases regarding standing....and YES, scotus would take the case to declare *citizens* do not have standing....
> 
> your arguments as to why anyone else doesn't bring the claim is a red herring, we are talking about citizens having the right to demand proof.


Yurt,
Where does it say that in our constitution?  Can you point me in the right direction?

Care


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > i've posted links and cases regarding standing....and YES, scotus would take the case to declare *citizens* do not have standing....
> ...



say what in the constitution?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 8, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



yeah, you see how much i am distracted by this....

thank you for setting willy straight that it is not a birth certificate....

um, people have sued to get a copy and they have all lost due to standing...the law is clear on who has a right to see a copy of the original, a court of law could order it say in a paternity suit, will dispute etc....but so far every judge has denied standing or some apparently have simply thrown it out as frivolous which is absurd, because without a copy of the original, how can any judge say it is frivolous.  to get frivolous you have to look at ALL the evidence and then determine that with ALL the evidence the claim lacks any merit.  

since no judge has produced a copy of the original, denial is wholly improper.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

Another question Yurt,

Do you believe our present Immigration and Naturalization Laws in place today are in place for everyone alive today?

I guess what I am asking is, are these laws in place today, retroactive?  So a baby born one day before the law that made those in his category citizens, would be a citizen, as a child born one day after the law came in to effect?

For example, Mccain, according to our laws at the time, was not a citizen of the United States at Birth, but one year after he was born, a law was created by Congress that made those born in Panama to an American citizen, an american citizen....?

Or let's say, on November 1, 1950 a law was created and passed that made those born to an American citizen while they are overseas,  an american citizen at birth....

Would those born to American citizens on October 31, 1950 overseas not be a Citizen at birth and let's say another child born to them 10 months later would be?  Or does the law make those born to American citizens, citizens at birth no matter when they were born, before or after the new law?

Care


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



Where does it say in the constitution that "citizens have the 'right' to demand proof''?


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 8, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Another question Yurt,
> 
> Do you believe our present Immigration and Naturalization Laws in place today are in place for everyone alive today?
> 
> ...



Isn't it interesting, my brother was born on an american Air Force base in Japan and was told he wasn't an American citizen, I was born on an American Air Force Base in England...we both have naturalization papers.  Oh, and my brother had even voted and served in the  military before they told him he wasn't a citizen.  Yet McCain, who was born earlier than either of us, in Panama, is a native born citizen and can run for president?  More proof this country is run by the wealthy and they don't give a hill of beans about our country, just about how much money they can get out of her before she fails.


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> "Obama Birth Mystery: More Than 1 Hospital, This is NOT a CONSPIRACY, it's FACT! "
> 
> The *FACT* is that this thread is in the _CONSPIRACY THEORIES FORUM_.
> 
> Therefore, this is a *CONSPIRACY*.



The only FACTS present in THIS thread are the ones I presented with PROOF, and there is NO CONSPIRACY ABOUT IT.

Just because a liberal, obama loving moderator that can't STAND to see this subject perpetuated, ESPECIALLY when PROOF arises, so they move it where THEY want it because they have the power to do so acting simply on their own bias, even though this is NOT where it belongs, does NOT TAKE ANYTHING AWAY from the FACTS PRESENTED as they are, FACTS not a CONSPIRACY.

Fact: Obama has NOT provided his real birth certificate, only a "certificate of live birth" which proves exactly NOTHING!
Fact: Obama now has a team of lawyers he's spent over a million dollars on to make sure his BC and many other documents STAY hidden.
Fact: Obama has now been caught in a LIE about which hospital he was born in, in Hawaii.
Fact: Obama calls indonesia his "home."
Fact: Obama's grandmother claims she was present at his birth in Mombasa, Kenya.

Now I ask anyone of you obama ass kissing liberals to tell me what part about ANY of the above FACTS is a CONSPIRACY? I'd ESPECIALLY like to hear from CrimsonWhite who moved this thread into here... explain what it is about the above facts I listed that you think is a conspiracy...


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > "Obama Birth Mystery: More Than 1 Hospital, This is NOT a CONSPIRACY, it's FACT! "
> ...


 
Terral also presents a lot of "facts" in his Conspiracy theories.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



It is what Hawaii deems as their legal birth certification, equal to a birth certificate for most all cases, where one is legally needed.

Does the constitution say anything at all about whether a State uses a Certification of Live Birth or a Birth Certification as the legal proof of citizenship for the presidency?

Care


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Jul 8, 2009)

Same topic. Same discussion. Same lame ass arguments. 

*Threads Merged.*


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

Political Junky said:


> Oh, World Net Daily is reliable and unbiased ... NOT.



Find proof to the contrary or shut the fuck up. You just look like a piss warm, obama mouth piece.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt, do you think the State Department did not do their duty, and did not vet the Presidential candidates for their eligibility?


----------



## 007 (Jul 8, 2009)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Same topic. Same discussion. Same lame ass arguments.
> 
> *Threads Merged.*



And you can't DISPUTE or prove a damn thing DIFFERENT about anything presented here as a conspiracy. 

Nice liberal, ass kissing job and EPIC FAIL jack ass. What a tool.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt,  the Birth Certificate.  the one that the state issues to everyone,  has been released long ago.  If you are trying to distinguish the document by the word certificate or certification,  you fail.  "Birth Certificate" is not the official notation on either form.  In fact,  they are both birth certificates.  Both certify the birth of Barak Obama and where it took place.


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Same topic. Same discussion. Same lame ass arguments.
> ...



I could give two shits whether or not you believe that you have found the truth. The fact is, Barack Obama is President. He was certifed as eligible. He is President. Anything that says otherwise is a conspiracy theory.

Furthermore. The mod staff decides where things go. If you have a problem with something that I have done, then you can take it up with *me* via PM. Otherwise, don't comment on mod decisons. You know it isn't allowed here.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Are you just going to let him talk to you that way Pale?


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, World Net Daily is reliable and unbiased ... NOT.
> ...


 
I'm sure it would be easy to find another _BLOG that disguises itself as a news organization_ that would contradict your ridiculous claims.

Then again, we could probably find several hundred _LEGITIMATE news organizations_ that contradict your ridiculous claims.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...





That is complete poppycock.  That's going to be my word to replace "bullshit" for a while.  Poppycock.  

It's frivilous,  the courts have said so,  accept it,  move on.  Or don't.  I've nearly decided that's it better to keep you numb nuts chasing poppycock than have you actually participating in important issues.  

In fact,  best of luck to ya!  Continue.


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Jul 8, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > Same topic. Same discussion. Same lame ass arguments.
> ...



This is walking a fine line. *Any* problems with mod action can be taken up via PM.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 8, 2009)

That is a fine policy right there.


----------



## Plsd2mechu (Jul 9, 2009)

If I was Obama I wouldn't produce SHIT for your dumbasses!

AND........

I'd tell you to KISS my ENTIRE Black Ass!

Can't BELIEVE this shit is STILL going on!

WHAT other fucking president has EVER had to go thru this?

You HAVE to wonder why.......


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Jul 9, 2009)

Plsd2mechu said:


> If I was Obama I wouldn't produce SHIT for your dumbasses!
> 
> AND........
> 
> ...



Keep it your pocket.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 9, 2009)

CrimsonWhite said:


> Keep it your pocket.
> 
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_v63oTveUEGI/SVzd-H9APqI/AAAAAAAAHpU/PwIS_ZuLzYo/s400/race_card.gif



I choose you Pikachu!



Use Thundershock!


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 9, 2009)

Plsd2mechu said:


> If I was Obama I wouldn't produce SHIT for your dumbasses!
> 
> AND........
> 
> ...


LOL

gee, Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43
they all got it
what makes Obama special?


----------



## Modbert (Jul 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> LOL
> 
> gee, Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43
> they all got it
> what makes Obama special?





 (Of course, my feelings on this issue are well known, that this issue is completely bogus.)


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 9, 2009)

Modbert said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > LOL
> ...


but this is nothing new
there were tons of rumors anhd CT's on Reagan, and Bush 41
and who can forget the Clinton death list and the other many conspiracies
and with Bush 43 i think it broke records for the number of stupid CT's that have been called on him
Obama is just the new kid on the block


----------



## Modbert (Jul 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> but this is nothing new
> there were tons of rumors anhd CT's on Reagan, and Bush 41
> and who can forget the Clinton death list and the other many conspiracies
> and with Bush 43 i think it broke records for the number of stupid CT's that have been called on him
> Obama is just the new kid on the block



Oh, I thought you were referring to the birth certificate stuff, not in general.

My favorite CT so far is that Obama was born a Socialist Muslim who was trained in the Soviet Union and came to America to turn us all into Socialists.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 9, 2009)

Modbert said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > but this is nothing new
> ...


never seen THAT one


----------



## Modbert (Jul 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> never seen THAT one



Well actually it gets so much better, I was trying to remember it and found it sorta:



> In a February 10, 2009, column, Janet Porter further alleged that President Obama was acting as a mole for the Soviet Union. Porter suggested that Obama was raised as an atheist and Communist and was subsequently trained by Soviet agents during the early 1990s. Porter also suggested that Obama's election as president was the result of a long-term Communist conspiracy. Porter's only evidence for these allegations was a series of uncorroborated claims made to her by an American computer programmer, who claimed to have spoken to a Russian scientist in 1994 who told him that Obama was a Communist and was being groomed by Russian agents to infiltrate the presidency



That column was posted on WND if you were wondering. It's just such a lulzy CT.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 9, 2009)

Modbert said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > never seen THAT one
> ...



never read WND
i figure its not worth my time when they get so much WRONG
lol


----------



## eots (Jul 9, 2009)

if he was eligible for the presidency without question they would not be blocking lawsuits  that are trying to prove this,,he was not born in Hawaii


Obama Not Eligible For Presidency?
By DMartyr · Wednesday, October 22. 2008 07:22
Philip Berg has filed for a default win in his case against Barack Hussein [no response] Obama. According to Berg, Obama's failure to respond in a timely manner amounts to an admission of guilt. 

Obama could have avoided this entire issue by simply providing his original birth certificate to prove he is constitutionally qualified to run for the office of U.S. President. Instead, his attorneys have tried to have the case dismissed.

This action only begs the question: What is Barack Hussein Obama hiding?



http://snappedshot.com/archives/3018-Obama-Not-Eligible-For-Presidency.html


----------



## Modbert (Jul 9, 2009)

eots said:


> if he was eligible for the presidency without question they would not be blocking lawsuits  that are trying to prove this,,he was not born in Hawaii



See, in the U.S., any crackpot can file a lawsuit. The reason the courts are blocking these lawsuits are because it's already been proven by law where he was born, when, etc. The courts are already so backed up that they aren't going to take on a case that could take up countless time that could actually be spent on real cases.


----------



## eots (Jul 9, 2009)

Modbert said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > if he was eligible for the presidency without question they would not be blocking lawsuits  that are trying to prove this,,he was not born in Hawaii
> ...



and thats how easy it is to silence the bots...carry on


----------



## Chimera (Jul 9, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...


I was born in NJ, and I am looking at my BC right now. It says: "Certificate of Live Birth."


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



care,

i've already given you the specific HI codes that say it is not.  i'm not doing it again.  look up the HI codes yourself....it is not the same thing at all.  that is why it says it is only *prima facie evidence*....that means it is not absolute proof, we've been through this and i'm not doing your homework for you again.

no the constitution does not, that is irrelevent to the discussion of whether obama is qualified or not.  for the umpteenth time, people claim that the original will show something nefarious.  as such, the prima facie certificate is NO longer proof care, i've also defined prima facie for you.  

as to whether the government vetted him, give me a break, the government has been incompetent in so many other areas i would not dare assume the government is competent here.  

the fact is people, what obama showed is not a copy of the original, it does not contain all the information, it is only prima facie evidence and if the original exists that is the proof under HI codes. 

i suggest you guys stop being so partisan and blindly defending obama and look up the law, HI codes are posted online.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 9, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> amazing...you seem to think if you say it enough it makes it true.....
> 
> obama is not american
> 
> ...



If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. 

- Joseph Goebbels


----------



## Care4all (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



Yurt, HOW HAS people shown obama's Certification of live birth, nefarious?  HOW?  They haven't, thus the frivolous mention by several of the courts imo...

so no need to insist on an original....if you can show us how obama's Certification of Birth was nefarious then maybe they would have a case to insist on seeing the original, no?


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 9, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> What courts, you blithering nitwit? *What the hell do the courts have to do with anything? *They don't bring charges or demand proof. A case has to come before them.
> 
> Good grief.



You mean other than enforce the laws of our land?

Nothing.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



care,

they have not been given access in order to show it.  there are questions about which hospital, inconsistencies are what i believe they claim.  how can they show anything when they can't see a copy of the certificate of live birth care?  

the certification of live birth only gives partial information, that is why it is not titled the same.  if there is nothing to hide care, what harm is there in releasing a copy?  if obama doesn't want to waste court time, release a copy like mccain did and shut everyone up.  the majority of people that have a problem with this is due solely to the fact he won't release a copy of original.  i've been pos repped numerous times by people in this threads and every single one of them is about the original. 

it begs the question that HI states it exists, yet he won't release it.  look at the energy you're spending arguing its frivolous when you don't even know what all is contained the original.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



YURT,

whether Obama was born in Kenya or timbuktu he is a natural born citizen, of the United States....you realize such, don't you?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-discussion/81295-usa-citizenship-laws-history-vs-obama.html


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 9, 2009)

eots said:


> and thats how easy it is to silence the bots...carry on



You know, something doesn't gain virture simply because it is a conspiracy thoery.

And if you buy into every conspiracy theory, it doesn't put you "in the know", it just makes you paranoid.  

My point:  calling a person a "bot" simply, because they apply the rational person filter doesn't buy you any cool points.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



*shakes head*

as i've told you and others numerous times, i believe he is a citizen, nice doge of the facts and the law though....

how quickly you shut down when asked what is the harm in producing it....and how can they prove their case when they are not allowed access to it....

you're normally fairly unbiased, in this incident you are so entrenched in the belief that this stuff is a joke you're not seeing straight.  you're missing the law, the facts and the very notion of how dangerous it is to set a precedent that US citizens cannot have access to a simple copy of an original birth certificate to clarify constitutional eligibility and denying them the right to present their case in court either due to lack of standing or in the faulty legal opinion of its frivolous.

and your little thread....either allow a copy of the original or your thread will never be complete....and your thread is opinions


----------



## Care4all (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



The point is Yurt, HOW could they prove their case if they did have access to it?  What information on the original, that is missing on the Certification due to the mother's Privacy, would help your or their case?

His birth weight and length when born, the mother's doctor's name, the hospital, the mother's home address?  WHAT on the original would prove that Obama was born in Kenya and what importance would it be for anyone, when he would still be eligible as a Natural Born Citizen, to be President?

Being that the certified live birth records of hawaii shown to us via his certification of Live Birth, of which all of the legal information on it comes from the Hospital Original, means that both documents say that Obama was born in Hawaii.

His original Birth Certificate HAS to show the same thing....it is CERTIFIED AND SEALED as to saying the same thing....he was born in Hawaii.

The original Birth Certificate is generated by the Hospital where the child was born.

If Obama were born in Kenya, THERE WOULD BE NO ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE for you or anyone else, being DENIED ACCESS TO, and there would be no Certification of Birth, registered with the Hawaiian Health REGISTRAR on August 8 1961.

And you never answer the questions or facts that i have put before you, except the ones where you feel you can make a point...how about addressing how Obama's birth could be registered in hawaii as a live birth in hawaii if he were born in Kenya, just 3.5 days before he was officially registered with the State Records?

Do you think his mother made it home from africa, went to the State, filled out all the proper forms for a child born overseas, or bribed someone to say he was born in hawaii all before the date of his birth being registered with the state....IN JUST THE LESS THAN 4 DAYS?

What grounds do those suing have to bring any suit, if obama is a natural born citizen, whether he was born in Kenya or Hawaii?


Please ANSWER my questions this time...pretty, pretty, please.

Care


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original

i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.  

have fun with discussing this with others


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original
> 
> i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.
> 
> have fun with discussing this with others




The only law is that Barak Obama be a natural American citizen.

It has been satisfied.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original
> 
> i'm done talking to you care, you just go in circles and ignore what i give and the questions i give you.
> 
> have fun with discussing this with others



that's fine, QUIT with me if you want, but you never answered my questions...even though you claimed you have....

and obama chooses to keep his original out of the hands of berg, because he feels like it i suppose, and because he legally, has this right to privacy and should not be subject to these frivolous accusations in the first place, again, i suppose, and he should not be subject to releasing his birth weight and hospital and doctor to a stranger when ALL that is needed is the State acknowledging his birth there, through their records, which they did....but you should know this....

there is NOTHING nefarious with obama's certification of live birth and you know it.

care


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > no, i've answered your questions, provided you with law and you never explain the harm in releasing the original
> ...



and you wonder why i refuse to continue this nonsense....i said people have claimed something about the certificate, not the certification...and you arguing one way or the other is irrelevent to why obama won't release it....

you're ignoring a large portion of what i keep repeating to you, so why bother continuing?  your questions to me are about the veracity of these claims, i already told you i believe he is a citizen, so all you are doing is raising strawman arguments to me while ignoring mine....

what is the harm?  none....obama is a liar for promising to fight all smears and be transparent.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...




And this is exactly why you won't be allowed to make an issue of this,  at least not in any court.  Here,  you admit that your argument is totally and completely disingenuous.  You beleive that Obama is a citizen.  

That my friend,  is the end of your claim in any US court.  

FAILURE TO STATE A CLAIM FOR WHICH RELIEF CAN BE GRANTED.

If you already believe that he is a citizen,  AND you admit it,  you have no claim.  You have no reason,  by your own admission,  to challenge the evidence provided.  

Prosecuting Obama for breaking a campaign promise?  Good luck.  That seems to be your only accusation.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



you have to be one of the most ignorant people on this board....this is why i tire of going in circles 

*news flash*

this is not about me bringing a claim, this is about those who believe his is not a citizen and my belief that citizens should be able to demand proof of constitutional qualifications...so you twit, they do have reason to bring a claim

thanks for the laugh though


----------



## Terral (Jul 9, 2009)

Hi Yurt:



Yurt said:


> *shakes head*
> 
> as i've told you and others numerous times, i believe he is a citizen, nice doge of the facts and the law though....



Yeah. Lots of people believe in Santa Claus too and they have more evidence than you. Obama is an *Illegal Alien Foreign National *. . . 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rkKhxqBfUw&feature=related"]Obama Is an Illegal Alien!!![/ame]

. . . and everyone in the Corrupt-To-The-Core Congress knows it. Lawlessness is running rampant upon the land and . . . 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdiG4OC48LY]. . . Obama Is Your Illuminati NWO Destroyer . . .[/ame] 

GL,

Terral


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...




And those people also,  can not state a claim.  The claims are frivilous.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 9, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Yurt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you've got one BIG PROBLEM, even if obama was born in kenya, he still was a us citizen AT BIRTH, and if you are a us citizen at birth, you are considered a natural BORN citizen.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/gener...enship-laws-history-vs-obama.html#post1328538


----------



## jvn (Jul 9, 2009)

Just a quick note here because the misuse of legal terms drives me NUTS!

Here is the definition of *Prima Facie*:

Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted.

A prima-facie case is a lawsuit that alleges facts adequate to prove the underlying conduct supporting the cause of action and thereby prevail.

So, the Certification of Live Birth which says that it is prima facie evidence of the facts stated thereon is saying that it is *sufficient to "establish the fact in question unless rebutted."*

Get that?

It doesn't mean that it ISN'T certified evidence, it doesn't mean that it ISN'T proof unless presented in a court of law, it means that the information on the certification  IS TO BE TAKEN AS FACT UNLESS REBUTTED IN COURT!!!!

So this establishes two things.

First, the President HAS submitted written documentation establishing his birth in Hawaii in August 1961, and

Second, that the burden of proof here is on those who claim that he is not eligible to be President because he was born in Kenya or wherever else but the US.

Has anybody seen any proof of THAT?  I haven't seen anything that even remotely indicates that...


----------



## Care4all (Jul 9, 2009)

jvn said:


> Just a quick note here because the misuse of legal terms drives me NUTS!
> 
> Here is the definition of *Prima Facie*:
> 
> ...



thanks for the explanation and definition.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

jvn said:


> Just a quick note here because the misuse of legal terms drives me NUTS!
> 
> Here is the definition of *Prima Facie*:
> 
> ...



i've already explain this in detail to care, and this is exactly why i tire of discussing this issue with her...and if you claim i have misused the word you're dead wrong.

why haven't you seen proof.....*because no court has allowed them access to a copy or the original....or to bring their claim in court*

all they want is their day in court to rebut the evidence.  

it is simple really, if obama releases a copy of the original, it goes beyond a presumption....


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

this kind of stuff is exactly why obama should release it:

News sites swap Obama's birthplace like magic

the above raises a plausible rebuttal that should be resolved in court or by obama releasing a copy....without that, there is no way to rebut the presumption....

now do you understand why this continues?


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> *news flash*
> 
> this is not about me bringing a claim, this is about those who believe his is not a citizen and my belief that citizens should be able to demand proof of constitutional qualifications...so you twit, they do have reason to bring a claim



The courts have not sided with your belief.  It makes sense, as it would establish precedent to allow any single citizen to challenge an election and thus stymie the democratic process of our country.  It would be like Florida 2000 or Franken v. Coleman on steroids.

Aren't you a lawyer?  Wouldn't your time be better spent writing some briefs and motions on this matter as opposed to argueing with a bunch of people on the internet?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

geauxtohell said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > *news flash*
> ...



well that settles it folks, the courts have so far not sided with me and apparently this tool thinks i'm a lawyer so i will just shut up now....because lawyers don't have the right to speak to their minds on a message board...they shoud 24/7 write briefs

you make sweet willy look intelligent

and you comparing a recount to qualifications is the most absurd, moronic statement i have heard all day...if the court said a prez candidate did not have standing, then you would have piont dumbass


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> well that settles it folks, the courts have so far not sided with me and apparently this tool thinks i'm a lawyer so i will just shut up now....because lawyers don't have the right to speak to their minds on a message board...they shoud 24/7 write briefs



Was I factually inaccurate?  I was under the impression that you are a lawyer.  Is that not the case?  Your statement is a little vague.  



> you make sweet willy look intelligent



The summation of your intelligence is negative repping me and calling me a "moron" and an "asshole", thus, I am not terribly impressed.  

Mind you, I don't care that you negative rep me, I just think it makes you look childish and weak.  

You are right about one thing though, I am an asshole.



> and you comparing a recount to qualifications is the most absurd, moronic statement i have heard all day...if the court said a prez candidate did not have standing, then you would have piont dumbass



My point was standing.  The Bush V. Gore case was against Bush and Gore because they had standing.  No one ever debated that.

What you apparently want to do, is give every single American standing in contesting an election issue, which would be completely disasterous.

I know you are slow on the uptake, but the difference is a potential legal dispute between two individuals and a potential legal dispute that could involve anyone of millions of people.  

The electorial process could potentially be tied up in courts for years, and we would never seat another candidate.

I've yet to see you "birthers" address that point.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 9, 2009)

> TE=geauxtohell;1329553]
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> what difference does it make it to you, the board, this discussion?  what do you do for a living?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you're dead wrong....you're talking vote recounts vs. producing a *one *sheet of paper....




> The electorial process could potentially be tied up in courts for years, and we would never seat another candidate.
> 
> I've yet to see you "birthers" address that point.



you again are dead wrong...mccain.....threw everything he had on the table to convince people....and that got resolved real quick.....obama, doesn't want to provide information.......

why is that?  why the openess of the mccain....why does obama not do the same thing...they both were challenged and only one rose up and met the challenge....obama is still hiding information as compared to mccain

that is a fact


----------



## PubliusInfinitum (Jul 9, 2009)

CrimsonWhite said:


> *Thread Moved*



ROFLMNAO.. 

You're such a fucking super-douschebag...


----------



## Modbert (Jul 9, 2009)

publiusinfinitum said:


> roflmnao..
> 
> You're such a fucking super-douschebag...


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 9, 2009)

Yurt said:


> [q
> what difference does it make it to you, the board, this discussion?  what do you do for a living?



Well, if we are discussing issues of legalities, and you are a lawyer, that would suggest some expertise in the area of the law.

I am a medical student.



> IOW, my neg rep spoke the truth.....and if you dont' care....and you admit all i said asshole...why bring up.....



Because, when people act like children, I tend to point it out.  Seriously throw a temper tantrum if you want, it just re-iterates that you are a child.  



> you're dead wrong....you're talking vote recounts vs. producing a *one *sheet of paper....



The issues is still standing as a venue to challenge an election.  The issue is, just who can challenge the legitimacy of an election and what ramifications will that have if it is opened up to every single citizen in the country (as opposed to the "harmed" party, which the courts have deemed begins and ends with the other candidate).

You keep getting sidetracked about how Obama just has to produce that one magic piece of paper.

I don't blame him for not given in to the demands of the fringe right.

Why?

Because it won't end there.



> you again are dead wrong...mccain.....threw everything he had on the table to convince people....and that got resolved real quick.....obama, doesn't want to provide information.......



Actually, and not ironically, the lawyers for the GOP in the McCain case argued "standing" as well:



> Lawyers for John McCain and the state and national Republican Party on Thursday asked a federal judge in San Francisco to dismiss a lawsuit challenging the candidate's place on California's Nov. 4 ballot.
> 
> ................
> 
> But lawyers for the GOP and McCain wrote Thursday that Robinson lacks standing to sue and is asking the courts to tread where the Constitution forbids.



California lawsuit questions McCain's Eligibility for Presidency



> why is that?  why the openess of the mccain....why does obama not do the same thing...they both were challenged and only one rose up and met the challenge....obama is still hiding information as compared to mccain
> 
> that is a fact



And ultimately, your arguement boils down to a whine fest about why the President of the United States won't capitulate to the demands of a group of people that are never going to be satisfied either way.

You want to see Obama's "vault" copy, and I want to win the powerball.

Wish in one hand and shit in the other.......

The only relevant thing is the law.

And you guys can't seem to win a single motion.


----------



## CrimsonWhite (Jul 9, 2009)

PubliusInfinitum said:


> CrimsonWhite said:
> 
> 
> > *Thread Moved*
> ...



Enjoy your vacation.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

> QUOTE=geauxtohell;1329663]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i hope you gain some common sense....i don't come on this board as a lawyer......when you're along in your alleged med studies, just remember the time you bitched about some lawyer on a website when you're just shooting the shit with your pals and they say.........hey, you're a doctor, anything you say can and will be held against you......

you have a lot to learn about life

[





> quote]e]
> IOW, my neg rep spoke the truth.....and if you dont' care....and you admit all i said asshole...why bring up.....





> Because, when people act like children, I tend to point it out.  Seriously throw a temper tantrum if you want, it just re-iterates that you are a child.


[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
and you want to be a doctor....sad



> The issues is still standing as a venue to challenge an election.  The issue is, just who can challenge the legitimacy of an election and what ramifications will that have if it is opened up to every single citizen in the country (as opposed to the "harmed" party, which the courts have deemed begins and ends with the other candidate).
> 
> You keep getting sidetracked about how Obama just has to produce that one magic piece of paper.



tool, it is not a "magic" piece of paper....are you in magic med school, harry potter school of medicine?  

venue....dude, no one has ever brought up venue....wtf are you even talking about?  



> I don't blame him for not given in to the demands of the fringe right.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because it won't end there.



yes, that is why all courts should deny standing, because it just won't end there....



> Actually, and not ironically, the lawyers for the GOP in the McCain case argued "standing" as well:



yes they did......

did mccain produce

yes or no

did obama produce

yes or no


----------



## Care4all (Jul 10, 2009)

mccain did not have to produce anything yurt....

he was born in panama, *1 year before* the law was written and passed, that made children born in the canal zone to American citizen parents, citizens at birth.

the Senate, gave a "sense of the Senate" vote, a nonbinding vote, that supported Mccain's eligibility to become President even though, at the time of his birth and according to our Laws at the time, he WAS NOT a citizen of the United States at birth, but naturalized as one later....well if you are a naturalized citizen, you are not able to be President, making mcCain ineligible....

The Senate said that this law that was passed to make those born in Panama canal zone to citizens, citizens themselves at birth, was RETROACTIVE and covered McCain....is my understanding of the entire ordeal. 

Mccain's certification of birth is Panama and has always been Panama, there was nothing new regarding such and as said there was absolutely nothing new that McCain had to "put on the table" so I am uncertain what you mean on that?

Obama has shown his birth place to be Hawaii via his State's Certification of his Live Birth there...

THERE IS NOTHING to put on the table to question his citizenship at birth....he has no birth certification that says Kenya, as mccain had one that said Panama....his birth certificate, says Hawaii and Hawaii State officials double verified such....so, there is nothing to be put on the table by Obama, unless he is holding a Kenyan birth certification in his pocket?  

Care


----------



## Care4all (Jul 10, 2009)

mccain did not have to produce anything yurt....

he was born in panama, *1 year before* the law was written and passed, that made children born in the canal zone to American citizen parents, citizens at birth.

the Senate, gave a "sense of the Senate" vote, a nonbinding vote, that supported Mccain's eligibility to become President even though, at the time of his birth and according to our Laws at the time, he WAS NOT a citizen of the United States at birth, but naturalized as one later....well if you are a naturalized citizen, you are not able to be President, making mcCain ineligible....

The Senate said that this law that was passed to make those born in Panama canal zone to citizens, citizens themselves at birth, was RETROACTIVE and covered McCain....is my understanding of the entire ordeal. 

Mccain's certification of birth is Panama and has always been Panama, there was nothing new regarding such and as said there was absolutely nothing new that McCain had to "put on the table" so I am uncertain what you mean on that?

Obama has shown his birth place to be Hawaii via his State's Certification of his Live Birth there...

THERE IS NOTHING to put on the table to question his citizenship at birth....he has no birth certification that says Kenya, as mccain had one that said Panama....his birth certificate, says Hawaii and Hawaii State officials double verified such....so, there is nothing to be put on the table by Obama, unless he is holding a Kenyan birth certification in his pocket?  

Care


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 10, 2009)

Care4all said:


> mccain did not have to produce anything yurt....
> 
> he was born in panama, *1 year before* the law was written and passed, that made children born in the canal zone to American citizen parents, citizens at birth.
> 
> ...



Yep, McCain didn't qualify to be president and so he said nothing about Obama's lack of qualification for the same reason.  neither one of them is a natural born citizen of this country.  we have once again been duped.  Like PT Barnum said, "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

care,

seriously, what is wrong with you?  this issue has clouded your reasoning and for the life of me i can't figure out why.  i never, ever said he had to produce anything....he CHOSE to produce everything he could to put the issue entirely behind him so that he and the country could move forward....

mr. transparency has done the exact opposite, he has fought everything and produced as little as possible and i've given you links that detail numerous inconsistencies on where obama was born (hospital)....why is the harm in simply producing a copy of the original like mccain did so we can all move on....you arguing against that is irrational.


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Just a quick note here because the misuse of legal terms drives me NUTS!
> ...



If you have "explained this in detail," you must have explained your incorrect usage of the phrase because it's pretty clear that your understanding of what "prima facie" means is about 175 degrees from what it really means, especially since you state that the COLB "is *only *prima facie proof..." (Emphasis mine).

The fact is that "prima facie" evidence is sufficent to establish the data on the COLB as a legal FACT unless rebutted.

It is that supposed rebuttal evidence that I want to see AND THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

Let's suppose that I file a lawsuit against you, claiming that you have cheated me out of millions of dollars.  I ask the judge to force you to give me access to every financial record, ever, that relates to you or your wife or any corporations that you have ever been involved with because without that information I have no evidence of the damage you have caused to me beyond my "strong belief" that you have cheated me.

Do you think any judge would grant my discovery motion in the absence of evidence from me that corroborated my claims?

Should he?

Now change that scenario and I am in court filing a lawsuit that claims that you have cheated me, as a citizen of the United States, because you have cheated on your taxes for years.  I raise a discovery motion asking to see every tax form and document you have ever filed, but I am willing to "settle" for just last year's information.

You move to dismiss, first because you don't think I should be able to sue you for that because my claim for damages is specious at best, and second you tell the judge that the federal government, the IRS and the Justice Department have never raised this issue with you and that you've paid your taxes.

Which motion will the judge approve?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



*shakes head*

you just proved my point moron...if i don't allow you access to evidence to rebut the prima facie evidence, a judge should and will force me to give you the evidence to allow you to rebut....in many cases the only evidence lies with the prima facie party, that is why courts routinely have status conferences, motions to compel evidence etc....because most times the evidence necessary to rebut the presumption lies with the other party.

the second has nothing to do with prima facie evidence, it is a standing question...seriously, stop thinking you're some legal scholar, its embarrassing


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> i hope you gain some common sense....i don't come on this board as a lawyer......when you're along in your alleged med studies, just remember the time you bitched about some lawyer on a website when you're just shooting the shit with your pals and they say.........hey, you're a doctor, anything you say can and will be held against you......



LOL.  Assuming you are a lawyer; no one is asking you to do pro bono work.  We are just trying to see if you have a level of expertise.  Furthermore,  no one is going to "hold anything" againt you.  The standard of your alleged profession is to be able to argue all sides of a case, even unpopular ones.



> you have a lot to learn about life



Oh, this is a second career for me, so I've been around the block a few times.  I doubt I am going to learn much about life from a person whose only recourse against those who disagree with him is to start name calling.

I am pretty sure that's the mark of a bad lawyer.



> and you want to be a doctor....sad



Yes, I wouldn't be in medical school if I didn't want to be a doctor.  



> tool, it is not a "magic" piece of paper....are you in magic med school, harry potter school of medicine?



No, but it would be fucking awesome if I were.  Medicine plus magic powers?  Talk about your dynamic combo!  I could charge people to heal them or cast a spell on people they don't like!  



> venue....dude, no one has ever brought up venue....wtf are you even talking about?



Did I miss-use a legal term?  Why don't you tell me.  Straighten me out with your expertise. 



> yes they did......



LMAO.  So if the reasons these cases have been getting tossed is due to standing, and you are bitching about that, why would you cite a case where your side used standing as their legal arguement?



> did mccain produce
> 
> yes or no
> 
> ...



Graciously answered by another poster.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> the second has nothing to do with prima facie evidence, it is a standing question...seriously, stop thinking you're some legal scholar, its embarrassing



From the poster that won't confirm or deny that he is a lawyer.

LMAO!

Are you a legal scholar, or can you tell us?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

i called you a name because of your condescending attitude....your posts above are meaningless and offer nothing to the discussion....i don't claim to be an expert here and your insistence on this is stupid and irrelevant...

even if i was a lawyer, that does not necessarily make me an expert in this area of the law.  why don't stop obsessing about what i do for a living....

and i did not cite a case, you did

fact:  mccain produced, obama did not


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> i called you a name because of your condescending attitude....your posts above are meaningless and offer nothing to the discussion....i don't claim to be an expert here and your insistence on this is stupid and irrelevant...



Oh, I've got the attitude?  Face it, "condescending attitude" is anyone that doesn't buy your fanciful conspiracies.  If the "birth certificate issue" is your "product", you are a lousy salesman.

If your solution is to start calling people who disagree with you idiots, morons, and assholes, you're movement is never going anywhere.  

You have successfully marginalized yourself.



> even if i was a lawyer, that does not necessarily make me an expert in this area of the law.  why don't stop obsessing about what i do for a living....



It would make you more knowledgeble of any legal issue than a bunch of laymen.  Additionally, when you point your finger at people and tell them they are not "legal scholars", it begs the question "are you?".



> and i did not cite a case, you did
> 
> fact:  mccain produced, obama did not



LMAO.  Backpeddle, backpeddle, backpeddle.  The legal issue is still standing.  McCain's lawyers argued it.  Apparently it has merit.  I can see the merit to the arguement, and have explained it.

Short of being able to respond to that, you resort to insisting that Obama capitulate to a fringe group of people who can't win a case in court.  

Surely, you are aware that there is no burden on the other side to give in to the demands to the losing party in a court case?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

> Oh, I've got the attitude?  Face it, "condescending attitude" is anyone that doesn't buy your fanciful conspiracies.  If the "birth certificate issue" is your "product", you are a lousy salesman.



you show your ignorance and condescending attitude right here....i'm a lousy salesman....what?  i'm not selling any conspiracy, yet here you are telling me i'm a lousy salesman...and you wonder why i call you a moron...



> If your solution is to start calling people who disagree with you idiots, morons, and assholes, you're movement is never going anywhere.
> 
> You have successfully marginalized yourself.



i call them that when they deserve it, for instance misrepresenting what i said or flat out ignoring what i say repeatedly or your attitude above...if someone is going to tell me repeatedly i am wrong on prima facie and their explanation actually proves them wrong....they're an idiot, one time ok, repeatedly, no



> It would make you more knowledgeble of any legal issue than a bunch of laymen.  Additionally, when you point your finger at people and tell them they are not "legal scholars", it begs the question "are you?".



still obsessing about me....get a life and debate what i have said, not my qualifications to say so.  i said that about the person above because they wrongfully keep insisting my use of prima facie is wrong and they do so in a way that they think they are a legal scholar....why you are whining about what i say to someone else is bizarre....



> LMAO.  Backpeddle, backpeddle, backpeddle.  The legal issue is still standing.  McCain's lawyers argued it.  Apparently it has merit.  I can see the merit to the arguement, and have explained it.



there is absolutely no back peddle, you're flat out lying, you said above that i cited the mccain "case"....you're wrong, i cited mccain handing out the information...you actually are bolstering my argument for obama producing a copy...mccain, despite fighting it in court on standing and winning, *still produced a plethora of evidence, including a copy of his original birth certificate*....why won't obama....



> Short of being able to respond to that, you resort to insisting that Obama capitulate to a fringe group of people who can't win a case in court.
> 
> Surely, you are aware that there is no burden on the other side to give in to the demands to the losing party in a court case?



you again miss the point, i believe the court is wrong.  in fact many here who believe obama is a citizen also feel it is wrong that the court does not grant standing to citizens.  your argument is that because a court said so, i can't have an opinion on the matter is the most ignorant comment i've probably ever heard.  mccain produced evidence, mr. transparency is not.  thats a fact, mccain went all out to put the issue behind him and the country, obama is not.  

you can call it fringe, but just look at how many threads and posts there on the issue.  you calling it fringe is copout


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> *shakes head*
> 
> you just proved my point moron...if i don't allow you access to evidence to rebut the prima facie evidence, a judge should and will force me to give you the evidence to allow you to rebut....in many cases the only evidence lies with the prima facie party, that is why courts routinely have status conferences, motions to compel evidence etc....because most times the evidence necessary to rebut the presumption lies with the other party.
> 
> the second has nothing to do with prima facie evidence, it is a standing question...seriously, stop thinking you're some legal scholar, its embarrassing



Well, this answers some questions.

First, you are not a lawyer.

Second, this issue has pushed around the bend.

You are claiming that a judge would grant a motion allowing someone suing you for damages access to all of the financial records ever associated with you based entirely on the word of the plaintiff that you had caused him damage?  

See, the first part of any lawsuit is the plaintiff showing the damage caused and evidence that establishes that claim.  NOT the plaintiff making an unsupported claim and then being given access to information so he or she can go hunting for evidence that might support the claim.

The real problem here is that this is not an issue that can be settled by the courts.

The Congress is the final constitutional arbiter of the outcomes of presidential elections.  There are procedures in place to look into questions like this when they perform that duty the first week in January following a presidential election.

By their vote certifying the election of President Obama without objection they settled this issue.  Whether you like it or not, the Constitution has been followed and the appropriate authorities have certified not only his eligibility, but have sworn him into office.

I doubt that the courts could even remove him from office now if they wanted to.  If he was charged with crimes, the Congress would have to impeach and remove him.

You may think it would be "nice" for the President to show you his original birth certificate, but he doesn't have to.  I suggest that you not vote for him in 2012 because that's your only recourse at this point...


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > *shakes head*
> ...



As I said before, the problem comes when it's discovered that he wasn't eligible to become president, a precedent will have been set.  What then?


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> As I said before, the problem comes when it's discovered that he wasn't eligible to become president, a precedent will have been set.  What then?



What has been "established" is that someone born in the United States, who, under the 14th Amendment as interpreted by the USSC is a citizen at birth is a "Natural Born Citizen."

That has not really been in question despite the rantings of some to the contrary.

The Congress simply certified that in January.

Granted, if someone offered proof that he wasn't born in the United States there might be some issues, but this really isn't setting precedent at all because most everyone understands that being an NBC means just that, that you are a naturally born citizen of this country, and, besides, the Congress certified the constitutionality of that definition.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > *shakes head*
> ...



i never said simply because i bring a claim, your dishonesty is appalling...of course i would have to have some indication of a cause of action.  if our agreements were entirely oral, then it is my word against yours.  if i can get around the SOF, then you're damn right i can request any and all financial records as it relates to our dispute.  you're missing the picture entirely.

here, they have brough plausible evidence of discrepencies about where obama was born.  obama holds the key evidence, the original birth certificate.  in this case, which is completely opposite of what you're discussing, not allowing the plaintiff to see a copy of the original birth certificate is illogical. what harm is there to defendant?  none.  he claims what he posted is valid, so the original will only contain the additional information of the hospital, the doctor....how is that private when obama has stated which hospital he was born in, which btw appears to conflict with other reports of which hospital.  

IMO, this gives rise to a colorable claim that can easily be resolved by access to the original or a copy thereof.  you're not making any sense by talking about fishing expeditions because in this case all that is requested is *one specific document*.

you proved again you have no idea what you are talking about.  and whether you think i am lawyer or not is irrelevant to your incorrect conclusions and statement of law.


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



Sorry, there is no "plausible evidence or discrepancies" about where the President was born, except for maybe the tempest in a teapot about what local people called the medical center where he was born.  Certainly you would agree that there is no evidence that he was born anyplace else but Hawaii.

The problem you are facing is summed up in this sentence you just wrote:  "IMO, this gives rise to a colorable claim..."  Yes, in your opinion it does, but since Congress has already certified that information, unless you can find some judge who agrees with your opinion, that's all this remains, your opinion.

I suspect that to find such a judge you would need to produce some *evidence* that the President was not born in Hawaii.  WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SPECULATION.  Proof, evidence that he was born elsewhere.  Are you aware of any?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



i've never said it was anything but my opinion...what is your problem?  do you enjoy not making sense and prattlign about nonsense....congress certified the election results you tool....not where he was born, the chief justice swears him into office and if in fact he is not eligible, guess what genius, he will be impeached....are you really this stupid?

people have posted what appears to be colorable evidence all over this board, or use google....stop playing stupid, because you starting to convince me


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 10, 2009)




----------



## Againsheila (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



His Kenyan grandmother claimed to have been present and his birth, she had never left Kenya, you don't think that's some proof of speculation?


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



Ah yes, insults.  That's all you've got, right?

Just note that I will not stoop to your level.

Your theory that the Congress will impeach the President if he is found to not be eligible *is *unique among you birth troofers, I honestly have never heard that before from any of y'all.  Mostly y'all just say that tehre will be "no need to remove him from office because he isn't eligible to serve and so is not."  Exactly where will 67 votes to impeach come from in the current US Senate?  That's kind of laughable, no?

If the Congress only counts the votes, why have there been objections in the past that relate to the procedure under which votes have been cast or counted?  

No.  the truth actually is that Congress CERTIFIES that the Electoral College vote has been conducted in accordance with all Constitutional procedures.  That includes the eligibility of the candidates, and they would have considered it in separate chambers had there been appropriate objections -- which, of course, there weren't.

And can you tell us why the Chief Justice would participate in swearing in the President if he had any concerns about his eligibility?

The only one prattling on about nonsense would appear to be YOU as you try hard to avoid answering the question:  Do you have any evidence that the President was not born in Hawaii?

That's what you need, PROOF.

The President is serving in office.  There is public evidence that he made available to the appropriate authorities his Certification of Birth from the State of Hawaii, the only documentary evidence necessary to show that he is eligible to be President.  Congress raised no objections to certifying the EC vote and the USSC has denied any attempts at raising the issue.

The facts speak for themselves -- unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Do you?


----------



## 007 (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> You may think it would be "nice" for the President to show you his original birth certificate, but he doesn't have to.



What kind of filthy pig shit you trying to push here slick? The President doesn't have to show his real birth certificate? Are you for real? Then why did John McCain? Why does it say you have to in the Constitution?

Powers to be wanted a black President. POWERFUL powers to be. They wanted a BLACK President to break the racial stigma in America. So much so that they completely and utterly ignore and disregard all legitimate concerns about the obama birth issue. (What do you expect when Holder, obama's lap dog for many years, is the Attorney General?) Did you know what obama did on his FIRST DAY IN OFFICE? He issued a Presidential decree stating that he or any other following President wouldn't have to PROVE they were eligible to be President. Why did he do that? Why is he HIDING EVERYTHING pertaining to his life that would shed light on whether or not he's an American born natural citizen?

If you can answer ONE of those questions, without a helping of your syrupy, disgusting, twisted obama ass kissing noises, I'll be surprised.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> Ah yes, insults.  That's all you've got, right?



Insulting your opponent when you can't beat them with facts is the calling card of all great lawyers.

Oh wait, that's completely wrong.

I am beginning to think you're assertion was correct.  

That, and (though I am certainly no lawyer), I've never heard anyone with any legal experience claim that prima facie evidence would not hold up in court or that it would warrent additional documentation.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


>



its not nice to beat horses, even if their dead 

if it bothers you so much, you don't have to read the thread....


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > You may think it would be "nice" for the President to show you his original birth certificate, but he doesn't have to.
> ...



So much to respond to...

First, John McCain DID NOT show his birth certificate in court, the PLANTIFF who was suing him did as a part of his filing the lawsuit.

It doesn't say anywhere in the Constitution that a Presidential candidate has to provide his or her birth certificate to the public, not even close.  The President provided it to the appropriate authorities and then went a step further and provided it for public viewing.

I will ignore your questionable comments about the President's race...

There was NO such Executive Order. And the President is not hiding anything at all about his life, unless you count his not bending over backwards for a group of lunatics who want him out of office at all costs because they can't stand the fact that he is the President.

He was born in Hawaii in August 1961.  Documented and certified by the state authorities.

There is no question therefore that he is eligible to be Presidnet in the absence of some proof by those who claim he is not.

Do *you* have any such evidence?


----------



## Care4all (Jul 10, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



That's an outright LIE Sheila, put out there by the LIARS on this topic....

Pale Rider, posted a link with the interview with the grandmother, where the grandmother was suppose to have said she was present when he was born in Kenya, by some reverend/radio host....I listened to the tape, and at midway point....which YOU MUST LISTEN TO, http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3, the grandmother was asked where Obama was born and she said specifically, he was BORN IN HAWAII...

SOOOOOOO, 

ALLLLLLLLLL of that has BEEN A RUMOR AND A LIE AND THE SUPPORT TO IT BEING A LIE IS RIGHT HERE, PROVIDED BY PALE,  http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3 , who obviously did not listen to it, because it clearly shows the radio host baiting her, trying to get her to say obama was born in Kenya, she was confused and could not understand why he was asking such, because he was born in hawaii, his father was from kenya but going to school over there...obama jr was born in hawaii...

I had been hearing about this tape from every republican out there that are believers that obama was born there, but had never been given a link to the source of this hearsay....

yesterday, pale posted a link to the taped interview with obama's grandmom that SUPPOSEDLY confirmed her saying he was born in Kenya and she was present and LOW AND BEHOLD, the taped portrayed NOTHING of the sort....his  kenyan  grandmom said obama was born in hawaii.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 10, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...




Read the transcript of the interview a while back.  They did their best to confuse and old woman who doesn't speak English and still failed miserably.


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 10, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



don't know what tape you listened to, but the one I listened to had her saying she was present at his birth....she changed her story after one of her sons said something.....I'm guessing you listened to the later part of the tape...AFTER her son told her not to say she was present at Obama's birth.  I do remember having my Kenyan friends listen to it and they said, "Yeah, that's what she said".


----------



## Care4all (Jul 10, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



I trust you will be honest Sheila, when you get time, listen to the tape I gave you the link to, in which Pale Rider supplied as support of him being born in Kenya, but it does no such thing.

I wanted to kick the radio host of this particular tape, in the face, for being such a manipulative asshole....and that is saying alot, for me....but I will let you make up your own mind....and I have no doubt you will hear, what i heard.

Care


----------



## Care4all (Jul 10, 2009)

here is the LAW sheila, pertaining to citizenship at birth:

US CODE: Title 8,1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth



> TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401
> Prev | Next
> § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
> How Current is This?
> ...



D or E fits obama's case imo....IF HE WERE BORN in Kenya as speculated by some.


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 10, 2009)

Care4all said:


> here is the LAW sheila, pertaining to citizenship at birth:
> 
> US CODE: Title 8,1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
> 
> ...



He may qualify as a citizen, but not as a natural born citizen and therefore ineligible to become president.  Again, I was born in England on an American Air Force base to two American citizens, my brother was born in Japan on an American Air Force base to two American citizens and we both had to become naturalized citizens and are NOT eligible to become president of the USA....there is no way in heck that McCain or Obama can possibly be eligible to be president when we aren't.  The only they have that we don't is money and influence....sorry but that wasn't anywhere in our constitution that our laws would be bent for people of wealth and influence.


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

On that phony "Grandma says he was born in Kenya" schtick, check this article from The Economist:


*Myths like this can't be killed by dull things like facts and documentation. Mr Obama released a reprint of his Hawaiian birth certificate in June, and an online cottage industry of self-appointed "forgery experts" rose up to challenge its legitimacy. An Anabaptist minister named Ron McRae tried some detective work to prove that Mr Obama's African relatives were hiding the truth about their favourite son, and on October 16th he called the Obama household in Kenya to get his 86-year-old paternal step-grandmother, Sarah, to say she was there when Mr Obama was born.

Mr McRae has signed onto the most famous Obama citizenship lawsuit, filed by troubled Pennsylvania lawyer Philip Berg (who twiced sued President Bush for his "role" in the 9/11 attacks), and given the court a partial transcript of a conversation wherein a translator says Mrs Obama was "present" when the president-elect was born. Ill-advisedly, Mr McRae then made the whole tape available... in which it's clear that Sarah Obama's translator, Vitalis Akech Ogombe, misunderstood the way Mr McRae phrased the question. When Mr McRae rephrases it, hilarity ensues. 

    MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombassa?

    OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombassa. He was born in America.

    MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

    OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombassa.

    MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

    OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.

That's from a conversation cited in a lawsuit that aims to prove Mr Obama was not born in America. That's what the poor voters of the electoral college will have to deal with for a few more weeks.*

And the State Department Regs about being born overseas?  Irrelevant since the President was clearly born in Hawaii as documented and certified by the state, the DNC, each state and territory's election officials, and the Congress of the United States.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 10, 2009)

jvn said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



lmao......yet he did and notice no one ever talked about mccain's eligibility after that.....

this cracking me up...

mccain, despite winning the standing argument....threw all his evidence on the table anyways.....

mr. transparency does the opposite....and people are still talking about it

that anyone would defend this is beyond me.....


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2009)

Yurt said:


> lmao......yet he did and notice no one ever talked about mccain's eligibility after that.....
> 
> this cracking me up...
> 
> ...



The issue of standing is the only legally relevant thing here.

Everything else is just sour grapes.  Regardless of what McCain did or didn't do, his side argued and won on standing.

Obviously this issue has not been specially crafted to support Obama and there is some legal thought that has gone into this matter.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 10, 2009)

It doesn't matter whether or not he is legally obligated to provide the information. If he weren't an elitist asshole, he'd authorize the hospital to release the records and put this to rest once and for all.

That's all he has to do and it would all go away. But because he thinks he shouldn't have to answer to the smelly masses, he won't.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> It doesn't matter whether or not he is legally obligated to provide the information.



Actually, the only thing that really matters *is* the law.



> If he weren't an elitist asshole, he'd authorize the hospital to release the records and put this to rest once and for all.
> 
> That's all he has to do and it would all go away. But because he thinks he shouldn't have to answer to the smelly masses, he won't.



I understand that you guys are frustrated that you can't win a court case, but he has no obligation to capitulate to the demands of the fringe right wing.

I don't blame him, because the demands will never stop.  This issue is not about the birth certificate at all for the vast majority of the "birther" movement.  It is about circumventing a legal and proper election.

Sorry.  Win some court cases and get back to me.


----------



## jvn (Jul 10, 2009)

geauxtohell said:


> I understand that you guys are frustrated that you can't win a court case, but he has no obligation to capitulate to the demands of the fringe right wing.
> 
> *I don't blame him, because the demands will never stop.  This issue is not about the birth certificate at all for the vast majority of the "birther" movement.  It is about circumventing a legal and proper election.*
> 
> *Sorry.  Win some court cases and get back to me.*



After a while that's all we can say.  The Troofers have their own "facts" and won't admit that they are wrong.

Like I've maintained all along, while the President is serving it stretches credibility that they claim that he isn't eligible.

But then again we know that the truth has a liberal slant, right?


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 11, 2009)

jvn said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > I understand that you guys are frustrated that you can't win a court case, but he has no obligation to capitulate to the demands of the fringe right wing.
> ...



Um, I claimed he wasn't eligible before he got elected, why would I change my mind simply because the vote counts went his way?  Remember PT Barnum?  "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

It would be nice if the truth eventually came out, but the truth about JFKs assassination never came out, I sincerely doubt the truth about Obama's citizenship will ever come out.

Again, even if he was born in the USA, he was adopted by an Indonesian citizen and was granted citizenship in Indonesia, they do not allow duel citizenship which means he gave up his American citizenship.  Anyway you look at it, it's darn fishy.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 11, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



Our laws are specific, *you can NOT take an American citizen's, citizenship away* without a court hearing, here in the USA....

Do you think Obama's mother flew back to the usa from indonesia to have this US court hearing to take her son's citizenship away from him Sheila?

And on another note, do you think Obama swore his allegience to Indonesia at 6 years old, and willfully gave up his citizenship to the usa?


----------



## Care4all (Jul 11, 2009)

Yurt said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



McCain used the same method that Obama copied to defend himself against suit on his citizenship and sought to have the suits against him DISMISSED due to not having STANDING.

Robinson v Secretary of State Debra Bowen et al John McCain Citizenship Lawsuit


----------



## jvn (Jul 11, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



The SCOTUS has ruled that no actions taken by or on the behalf of a minor can deprive them of their American citizenship until and unless they act to repudiate their American citizenship after the age of majority.

The President did not do that.  No one is making the allegation that he did, no one.

Even if we accepted your theory - for which there is no proof anyway - and we ignored the fact that Indonesian law does not allow the automatic granting of citizenship to children adopted after the age of five (and Obama was 6 when his mother married Soetreo), the only thing you would be arguing was that INDONESIAN LAW DID NOT RECOGNIZE THE PRESIDENT'S US CITIZENSHIP.

We would NOT be arguing about how American law viewed it, we would be talking about Indonesian law.

Quite irrelevant, don't you think?


----------



## 007 (Jul 11, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



Care... I like ya... always have. You're about the ONLY liberal I've ever been able to talk to and have a rational, intelligent conversation with. But you're as wrong here as you've ever been. I'll repost the interview with obama's grand mother, one with transcript in it, and there's no "baiting" or anything else. The question is simple and concise, "we're you there when obama was born."

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bloHSojeLAw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bloHSojeLAw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


----------



## 007 (Jul 11, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



In obama's case, he would have had "dual" citizenship, thus also making him ineligible to become our President.


----------



## 007 (Jul 11, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...



There are stark differences between McCain and obama. They held Supreme Court hearings on McCain, even though he had TWO American citizens for parents. They did NOT hold Supreme Court hearings on obama, even though one of his parents was NOT an American citizen, he'd lived a large part of his child hood in Indonesia, and he's never shown proof of his place of birth.

It's frustrating to watch you people read these facts over and over but fail to admit their veracity.

The bottom line is, there is enough evidence and facts to this issue to make a reasonable person ask, "why doesn't obama show us his real birth certificate, or any one of many other documents, and clear this whole mess up." 

If he has nothing to hide, then why is he hiding everything he's got with so much money and legal maneuvering?


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 11, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> It doesn't matter whether or not he is legally obligated to provide the information. If he weren't an elitist asshole, he'd authorize the hospital to release the records and put this to rest once and for all.
> 
> That's all he has to do and it would all go away. But because he thinks he shouldn't have to answer to the smelly masses, he won't.



I think it's because he doesn't want the masses to know the truth...


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 11, 2009)

That tape of Obama's grandmother really shows these nut balls for what they are.  Anyone that can listen to that and read the transcript and still claim that Obama's grandmother says he was born in Kenya,  is quite frankly,  an idiot.  The only person on that tape that insist Obama was born in Kenya is the interviewer and he gets corrected over and over again that Obama was born in America,  in Hawaii.  


Ron McRae: Amen. I am so thankful. Could I ask her, uh, about his, uh, his actual birthplace? I would like to see hi actual birthplace when I, when I come to Kenya in December. Uh, was she present when he was, was she present when he was born in Kenya?

Ogombe to Sarah Obama: Alikuma zalima Obama [unintelligible].

Kweli Shuhudia: He is asking her, he wants to know something was ah she present when he was born?

Ogombe: Yes. She says, Yes she was! She was present when Obama was born.
Ron McRae: Okay.

MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 11, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > jvn said:
> ...




How the hell is finding that Obama isn't a citizen taking away his citizenship?
What are you rambling on about?


----------



## mal (Jul 11, 2009)

Plsd2mechu said:


> I'd tell you to KISS my ENTIRE Black Ass!



You could say that, because your Ass is Entirely Black... 

His is only Half, so would you Suggest he says "Kiss my Black Cheek"?...



peace...


----------



## jvn (Jul 11, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> There are stark differences between McCain and obama. They held Supreme Court hearings on McCain, even though he had TWO American citizens for parents. They did NOT hold Supreme Court hearings on obama, even though one of his parents was NOT an American citizen, he'd lived a large part of his child hood in Indonesia, and he's never shown proof of his place of birth.
> 
> *It's frustrating to watch you people read these facts over and over but fail to admit their veracity.*
> 
> ...



Given your statement that "they held Supreme Court hearings on McCain,"  when of course, no such hearings occurred, your bolded statement is pretty damn ironic...


----------



## 007 (Jul 13, 2009)

jvn said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > There are stark differences between McCain and obama. They held Supreme Court hearings on McCain, even though he had TWO American citizens for parents. They did NOT hold Supreme Court hearings on obama, even though one of his parents was NOT an American citizen, he'd lived a large part of his child hood in Indonesia, and he's never shown proof of his place of birth.
> ...



Sorry... they held SENATE HEARINGS on McCain... Senate unanimous in vote to back McCain's eligibility | www.azstarnet.com Â® ... whereas they held NONE on soetoro.

And just to address the point that care4all and others have tried to forward that soetoro could have possibly been made an American citizen, which still isn't "natural born," by his mother, well that couldn't happen either, since his mother was too young at the time to transfer said citizenship if soetoro was born in Kenya.

They questioned as to whether or not McCain was eligible to be President, and he was born to TWO AMERICAN CITIZENS. Soetoro, we know, was born to only ONE, and we don't even know WHERE! People should be OUTRAGED this issue isn't being addressed by our government.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 13, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



sheila has mentioned a few times that she thinks he lost it because his step father enrolled him as an indonesian, while attending school there....

and this simply can not be done to a citizen of the u.s., his step father and mother by enrolling him in school in indonesia and checking a box saying he was an Indonesian citizen in order to enroll in school there as claimed, doesn't mean it is so....doesn't mean he gave up his U S  citizenship, it doesn't work that way....


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 13, 2009)

Care4all said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



Does his parents checking the 'Indonesian Citizen' box give him dual citizenship and is dual citizenship allowed in becoming POTUS?


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 13, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...


maybe they just LIED to get him into the school?


Occams Razor


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



Could be  . . .  but does he have dual citizenship and is that allowed in being POTUS?


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 13, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...


how could his mom lying on a form make him a citizen of anywhere?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 13, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Not saying that lying (if they did lie) made him a citizen  . . . just asking if he did have dual citizenship and how does that affect being POTUS?  (I'm asking because I don't know.)


----------



## 007 (Jul 13, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



No... that would most certainly disqualify him.


> The point Mr. Benjamin made convincingly is that during the sixties, when Indonesia was a *Police State*, it was necessary to have certain identity papers, called *Student KTP* to attend the Indonesian State recognized Schools he attended,and which Foreign children were not permitted to attend. They were not international schools.
> 
> Mr Benjamin continued:"No journalist has denied that the SD Asisi Record contains the following information: He was enrolled on January 1st 1968, given Serial No 203 and placed in Class 1 B. His Religion is given as Islam, his *Nationality Indonesian*, his Father's Name as L Soetoro Ma., his Father's Occupation as Official, Director General's Office TNI [Topography Division Indonesian Army] and his Name as Barry Soetoro."
> 
> ...



Obama's Dual Citizenship Problem


----------



## Care4all (Jul 13, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



though it hasn't happened yet, unless with obama, there is nothing to stop it, as far as i can tell....

i say unless with obama, because it is possible his father passed his british citizenship on to obama...kenya was a british colony,  his father was subject to the queen i believe?  don't know how that works....we, the usa, accepts duel citizenship with great britain if he does hold duel citizenship with britain....

their laws are obviously different from ours on citizenship....and i don't know them
and NO, he does not have duel citizenship with indonesia...  

On this same application to enter this school in indonesia that is floating around, it says obama's place of birth, was honolulu, hawaii


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 13, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Thanks.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 13, 2009)

ok, maybe you can't be president with duel citizenship, doesn't matter he was not an adult, he was born a us citizen, it can NOT be taken away from him or given up by him until he was 18....

he's done nothing to show his allegiance is to indonesia....this is sooooooo reaching at straws....sheesh


----------



## 007 (Jul 13, 2009)

Care4all said:


> ok, maybe you can't be president with duel citizenship, doesn't matter he was not an adult, he was born a us citizen, it can NOT be taken away from him or given up by him until he was 18....
> 
> he's done nothing to show his allegiance is to indonesia....this is sooooooo reaching at straws....sheesh



No... if he was born in Kenya, his mother was too young to confer her citizenship to him, so that doesn't count. His real father was a British citizen so that doesn't count. His step father was Indonesian and adopted him making him Indonesian. Now IF he was born in Hawaii, he'd still be a dual citizen which precludes him from qualifying for the Presidency.

On all accounts he loses, that's why the issue is so hush, hush by the powers to be. They know there's MASSIVE trouble brewing and that they screwed up. Problem for them is this issue is growing, and it WON'T go away until we see PROOF, REAL PROOF, of where soetoro was born.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 13, 2009)

BTW, if anyone is paying attention,  a court in California ruled that Orly Taitz has standing in her Keyes v. Obama case and that the case will proceed on it's own merits.  

The government has 60 days to respond.  

Looks like the case is finally going to be heard on it's own merits, so you birthers won't have to whine about that anymore.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 13, 2009)

geauxtohell said:


> BTW, if anyone is paying attention,  a court in California ruled that Orly Taitz has standing in her Keyes v. Obama case and that the case will proceed on it's own merits.
> 
> The government has 60 days to respond.
> 
> Looks like the case is finally going to be heard on it's own merits, so you birthers won't have to whine about that anymore.



yeah....its whining when people discuss the politics and implications of citizens not having standing to bring a claim against a government official 

moron


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 13, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> > The point Mr. Benjamin made convincingly is that during the sixties, when Indonesia was a *Police State*, it was necessary to have certain identity papers, called *Student KTP* to attend the Indonesian State recognized Schools he attended,and which Foreign children were not permitted to attend. They were not international schools.
> >
> > Mr Benjamin continued:"No journalist has denied that the SD Asisi Record contains the following information: He was enrolled on January 1st 1968, given Serial No 203 and placed in Class 1 B. His Religion is given as Islam, his *Nationality Indonesian*, his Father's Name as L Soetoro Ma., his Father's Occupation as Official, Director General's Office TNI [Topography Division Indonesian Army] and his Name as Barry Soetoro."
> >
> > ...


 
The United States had no recognition that he was an Indonesian citizen.  

So, unless you are saying that US citizenship laws are trumped by Indonesian citizenship laws, then he has always been a US citizen.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 13, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> No... if he was born in Kenya, his mother was too young to confer her citizenship to him, so that doesn't count. His real father was a British citizen so that doesn't count. His step father was Indonesian and adopted him making him Indonesian. Now IF he was born in Hawaii, he'd still be a dual citizen which precludes him from qualifying for the Presidency.
> 
> On all accounts he lose*s, that's why the issue is so hush, hush by the powers to be. They know there's MASSIVE trouble brewing and that they screwed up. Problem for them is this issue is growing, and it WON'T go away until we see PROOF, REAL PROOF, of where soetoro was born*.



You do realize Joe Biden will most likely become President correct? While it will fulfill your dream of there no longer being a black President, a Democrat will still be in charge. 

By the way, who are these "powers at be"? Are they say the same ones keeping the flat earthers and the people who don't believe in the moon landings down?


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 13, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



I do not believe our constitution allows our senate to change our laws of citizenship, or even to clarify them, that should be left up to the supreme court.  Again, McCain didn't qualify for the presidency either, which is why Obama was never challenged.  

My brother and I were both born on American bases overseas to TWO American citizens and WE are naturalized citizens and CAN'T run for the presidency.  There is no way in heck McCain should be able to either.  I think it's pretty clear that our government is bending the laws for the corporations and the wealthy and the heck with the rest of us.


----------



## manu1959 (Jul 13, 2009)

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaiis Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 13, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
> 
> Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaiis Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.
> 
> FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.



manu.....they're talking about the certifcation, not certificate....they have not seen the original....else how can they claim to have posted high resolution photographs of it?  they are lying or mistaken....your pick


----------



## Modbert (Jul 13, 2009)

Where Obama was born | Obama Conspiracy Theories

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/07/hawaii-homelands-declares-short-form-good-enough/


----------



## manu1959 (Jul 13, 2009)

Yurt said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
> ...



the certificate was inspected and photographed and hs been accepted by the state dept and the us supreme court closed the case.....

move on......


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 13, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



It has not been accepted by the supreme court, they refuse to hear the case.  Makes you wonder why, doesn't it?


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 13, 2009)

Yurt said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
> ...



That was pretty early on in this mess when Fact Check wrote that.  I don't think the entire "certificate / certification" bullshit had been raised.  In any case,  clinging to those terms as some sort of proof of a conspiracy is pure desperation.  

As far as your standing argument,  perhaps someone will have standing.  It looks like someone MIGHT get somewhere with this in CA,  but I doubt it.  Don't get your hopes up.  The reality is that the President has important business to tend to.  Unless someone can state a valid claim,  for which relief can be granted,  no court is going to force the President to deal with what amounts to pure harassment from conspiracy theorist.  

And if this photo copy of the original is ever produced,  you be sure to get on board with beating back all these fucking retards who have claimed "why doesn't he just put this to rest?".   The same people who are going to continue to cry foul and conspiracy no matter what.  The same people who want this original viewed will reject it as a forgery.  

This whole issue is an exercise in retarded, partisan futility.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 13, 2009)

Modbert said:


> View attachment 7698
> 
> Where Obama was born | Obama Conspiracy Theories
> 
> Hawaii Homelands declares Short Form GOOD ENOUGH! | Obama Conspiracy Theories



So how come all of you looking for proof of the hospital he was born at aren't responding to this post?


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 13, 2009)

Yurt said:


> yeah....its whining when people discuss the politics and implications of citizens not having standing to bring a claim against a government official



Hey, you were the one that kept bitching about how the case has never truly been heard, because everyone has been denied standing.

However, I was incorrect.  The ruling today was over Obama being in default in Taitz's suit.  The judge essentially ruled today that Obama wasn't in default for the previous serving (Taitz's contention), but allowed Taitz to serve the Obama adminisitration, via the lawyers for the government who were in the courtroom for the defense, on the spot and gave them 60 days to respond.

So the issue of standing and the merits of the case weren't discussed today.  Though it was pretty funny to see Orly try to do so, and the judge continually tell her to stop.  

Thus, the case can still be tossed on standing.  We shall see.



> moron



Whatever, fuckstick.  You haven't shown us anything beyond a demonstrated ability to make incoherent arguements and toss out insults.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 13, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> It has not been accepted by the supreme court, they refuse to hear the case.  Makes you wonder why, doesn't it?



It makes me wonder why you think the Supreme Court would hear a case before the lower courts have.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 13, 2009)

geauxtohell said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > It has not been accepted by the supreme court, they refuse to hear the case.  Makes you wonder why, doesn't it?
> ...



LMAO.....

original jurisdiction


----------



## Yurt (Jul 13, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



huh?  the long form?  a copy of the original?  that fact check link was to the computerized copy, not a copy of the original.  HI codes even spell out the difference....look at the codes printed on the bottom manu....

a copy of the original has never been presented in any court or to any news or internet site....

a little surprised manu


----------



## chanel (Jul 13, 2009)

Unfortunately wed end up with Biden. Would Pelosi become VP?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 13, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 7698
> ...



From  one of your links:


> The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual&#8217;s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person&#8217;s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.&#8221;



The first sentence says there are two forms - certificates and certifications.  The certificate has more info (I'm assuming this is what is referred to as the long form).  This sentence 'although original birth certificates are preferred for their greater detail'  . . . well, that's exactly why people would like Obama to release the certificate (long form).  Clearly there is more information on the certificate.  What are 'the greater details'?  Is there something on there that he doesn't want people to see?  If not, then why not release it and put the whole issue to rest?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 13, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



you again prove you are the most partisan, ignorant poster on this board....

my entire point has always been solely about standing and why he doesn't provide a copy of the original like mccain....

mccain went all out to shut the issue down....obama....quite the opposite from one who claims to have a fight the smears site


----------



## jvn (Jul 13, 2009)

geauxtohell said:


> BTW, if anyone is paying attention,  a court in California ruled that Orly Taitz has standing in her Keyes v. Obama case and that the case will proceed on it's own merits.
> 
> The government has 60 days to respond.
> 
> Looks like the case is finally going to be heard on it's own merits, so you birthers won't have to whine about that anymore.



My understanding is that the hearing today was on whether or not she had served the defendants appropriately under the applicable regulations, not whether the plaintiffs had standing.

Do you have a link?

ETA:  Nevermind.


----------



## jvn (Jul 13, 2009)

Just a quick note or two:

First, actually Congress DOES write our citizenship law, LOL

Second, the reason the Senate didn;t have a hearing on President Obama's eligibility?

There was no question that, being born in the United States, he was eligible.

Sometime the simplest answer IS the right one...


----------



## Modbert (Jul 13, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> From  one of your links:
> 
> 
> > The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual&#8217;s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific det*ails of a person&#8217;s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.*&#8221;
> ...



But you failed to read this and what I bolded above:


> &#8220;There&#8217;s only one form of birth certificate,&#8221; she said, and it&#8217;s been the same since the 1980s. Birth certificates evolve over the decades, she said, and there are no doubt differences between the way birth certificates looked when Obama was born and now.
> 
> &#8220;*When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site,&#8221; she said. &#8220;That&#8217;s the birth certificate.&#8221;*
> 
> As for the theory that Obama&#8217;s original birth certificate might show he was foreign born, O*kubo said the &#8220;Certification of Live Birth&#8221; would say so. Obama&#8217;s does not. Again, it says he was born in Honolulu*.



So if you're going to accept this theory then Obama was born in Honolulu, and that's that.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 13, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...




Yurt,  someone already entered the fact that McCain did not provide any certificate.  It was produced by the other party.  

The senate hearings on McCain were of the non-binding variety.  The Supreme Court would have the final say.  And if McCain had won the election,  the courts would have never heard any extreme claims about his eligibility either.  

The question has officially been satisfied.  The proof is self evident,  from the official birth record, to the subsequent verifications, to the birth announcements,  to the filing of the original,  that there is no reasonable way to refute it.  There is no reasonable way to even suspect it.  It's a wild guess that requires a paranoid amount of mental gymnastics to even follow.  

Let me put it this way:

If these many strange and timely events occurred in perfect harmony in 1961,  as you nut balls insist they must have,  and a teenage girl was somehow compelled to have a baby in Kenya,  somehow pinpoint  his B day accurately before it happened,  coordinate a ploy to either have his grandparents do all this dirty work of filing for the BC four days later and calling in the birth announcement manually to the newspaper,  having it appear perfectly in order,  on the same day as the other babies born that day,  at that hospital,  in that city in that county,  in that state, in this country,  at that time OR  this teenage girl managed to travel to Kenya,  birth the baby,  get on a plane, fly to Hawaii,  using the 1961 transportation system,  apparently sprint to the Health Department, the news papers, baby in tow and perfectly execute this so that Barak Obama will one day,  by the slimest of every probability,  be able to obtain a short form BC,  that will one day carry him into the WhiteHouse.  

If this teenage girl was able to pull that off,  SHE SHOULD BE THE FUCKING PRESIDENT.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 13, 2009)

I will make one concession to the above post:

If one or the other of the "good vs. evil" religions is right,  Barak Obama is indeed,  either the son of God or the son of Satan.  No way that shit happened without other worldly intervention.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 13, 2009)

chanel said:


> Unfortunately wed end up with Biden. Would Pelosi become VP?


uh, no, Pelosi would remain speaker of the house
Biden would become POTUS and sellect a new V-POTUS(to be confirmed by the US Senate)

this is basic civics


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 13, 2009)

Yurt said:


> LMAO.....
> 
> original jurisdiction



I wasn't aware that this was a dispute between states.

Even your birther barrister heros, Berg and Taitz have filed in lower courts.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 13, 2009)

Modbert said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > From  one of your links:
> ...



Yes, the certification of live birth would say so  . . . unless it was forged.  Which is part of the dispute.  I'm not saying it was I'm saying since there are lawsuits and dispute about this, and it seems to be growing rather than going away. . . . why wouldn't Obama just obtain the certificate (long form) and put the whole thing to rest?   One phone call and one piece of paper would quell this whole thing.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 13, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Modbert said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



That last sentence is completely wrong.  The nut balls have already made "alternate" claims about exactly how Obama is not a citizen.  The Indonesia and Pakistan theories have already been laid out and revealing the original BC will not end the controversy.  

You simply don't feed this bullshit.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 13, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Modbert said:
> ...



"Revealing the original BC will not end the controversy"  . . . . hard to say since no one has seen the original.  Which is what all the hoopla is about.   

If you click on the link below it will show you what information is on a long form vs. a short form for forms from 1963.  It also states that is it possible to have been born outside of Hawaii and still obtain the latter form (short form) but not the former (long form).  You'll likely dismiss this because the source is WDN; I'm linking it because it shows the two different forms.

What's the difference?

I've no doubt that no matter what was presented, there will always be those who will dispute it.  But if one phone call and one piece of paper would shut the lawsuits down and satisfy the majority, then  . . . . why not just do it?


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 13, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...




Revealing the original will not end the controversy.  The nut balls have already gone after these alternate theories about Indonesia and Pakistan.  The BC does nothing to put them to rest.  Nor any other theory.  

The WND and other conspiracy claims are completely false.  His BC was filed for four days after his birth.  If you believe it was a hoax,  then you are signing onto the afore mentioned scenario in which a pregnant teenager pulled this whole thing together or there was some other party or parties,  who in 1961,  conspired to care enough about the bi racial pregnancy of a teenager from Kansas,  to concoct the whole conspiracy and carry it out for some unknown reason.  Or do you believe they somehow knew this teenager was pregnant with a future president?  

And who called in the birth announcements in both news papers and why did they do that and how did they get Obama listed on the proper day,  in the propper order with the other babies confirmed to be born that day,  at the same hospital?

How did that happen?  Who knew all about the process and the timing of birth announcements in both papers?  And who went to the lengths to track down all of the births that day?  And who was it that knew the person that laid out the birth announcement page well enough to get to the them and have them place Obama's name in the right issue,  with all the other babies from the same hospital,  in the right order?  

You can't make this stuff up any better.  You guys should get off the political conspiracy wagon and put together a shitty spy movie script.  Because that's all you have.  A shitty, science fiction tale that no court is going to entertain.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 13, 2009)

> Revealing the original will not end the controversy



i guess if you repeat something enough times you will believe it....

just look how many people on this board are only interested in the issue becuase he won't release a copy of the original, they're even talking about any other issues...get it through your head....

as to mccain not producing it, first i've heard of it, what about all the other documentation....and how did they get a copy of mccains but no one can get a copy of obamas...


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 13, 2009)

Yurt said:


> > Revealing the original will not end the controversy
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes Yurt,  you idiots have repeated this baseless crap long enough that more people are now questioning rational thought.  Good for you.  Is there anymore mass paranoia,  sympathy pains,  or other forms of mental wrong headedness you would like to be a part of spreading?  Maybe you would be interested in handing out some leaflets on the street corner?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > > Revealing the original will not end the controversy
> ...



you idiots....wtf are you babbling aobut....i repeat it no more than you do, i am responding in threads...are you here just babble ad homs?  it appears you're getting upset because it is not going away....i'm telling you, he releases a copy of the original like mccain and its over...for the vast majority...now stop making stuff up and answer this:

as to mccain not producing it, first i've heard of it, what about all the other documentation....and how did they get a copy of mccains but no one can get a copy of obamas...


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

geauxtohell said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > LMAO.....
> ...



google the term, you're missing the rest of what original jurisdiction covers...


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



Since Obama refuses to have the long form released it makes me wonder . . . . he started running for president when he became Senator (and he likely set the wheels in motion before then) . . . . if this whole 'not born in Hawaii/citizenship thing' is real, he could have had his short form bc doctored rather recently, not that some 'conspiracy' has taken place since the day he was born.  That was my thought anyway.  Does it sound loony?  No doubt.  Would I put it past a politician to do this, especially a politician as narcissistic as Obama? Nope.

It is strange that the one thing he could do to put this thing to rest is the one thing he refuses to do -- simply release the original long form birth certificate.  While you're correct that there would be those who will always question and doubt, if he would just release the long form, the _majority_ of skeptics would be quieted and the issue would go away.

The longer this goes on and the longer he refuses to release the one piece of paper that would shut people up, the guiltier it makes him look.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



are you under the impression that hawaii could list honolulu as obama's birth place on the short form, even if he was not born in honolulu?  And that the long form would not list honolulu as the birth place?

i looked at both forms, please point out to me, the information on the long form that would conflict or be entirely different on the short form, regarding his certified place of birth?

honolulu CAN NOT be listed as his BIRTH PLACE on EITHER forms, if he were not born there, and been foreign born?  So what is it that you seem to think this long form will do?

I guess i don't understand why the long form would even make your case because WE KNOW the long form WILL SAY honolulu as his birth place, because the short form is GENERATED from the long form?  So, what is it that makes the long form so interesting to you guys?

Do you think the short form was a fraud and forged?  The state of hawaii confirmed it wasn't, so that can't be it?

I wish I could understand this obsession with getting the long form?  How will it help?

care


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



I've no idea on any of this, Care.  Could something be forged?  Of course.  Could people be bought off to say it wasn't?  Of course.  Anything is possible.  The more I see what these pols (all pols) are capable of, the more I distrust them.  I don't have faith that any of them have our best interest at heart.  Mostly, I just find it odd that lawsuits continue to come up with this issue, that so many people have valid concerns and that the original long form certificate would seemingly put to rest all these suspicions and that the easiest, simplest thing is the one thing that Obama will not do.  If there is no issue, why not just release the long form and shut everyone up.


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



IOW, we aren't suppose to ask to see his long form birth certificate because even if it proves he was born in the USA, there is still the question of him being adopted by his Indonesian step father and giving up his American citizenship?

Yeah, right, no fair mentioning he robbed the liquor store because he might also have burned it down.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...





Now,  everyone claiming that the original BC would end this bullshit,  read the above.  

This isn't about any reasonable claim,  it's about harassing someone.  It will not stop with the original BC.  

And as we see in other responses here,  no one seems to have a specific claim to make.  Just wild "what if" scenarios.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...





First,  Obama only requested a ceritified Hawaii BC in June of 2007.  That is when it was prepared.  

Second,  if this other piece of paper would shut people up,  it would have been released.  The evidence is the fact that this whole shit storm was precipitated by the first document being released.  The first document is a legal, verified and reverified document,  the people who prepared it have personally vouched for the damned thing.  

Now you expect that another piece of paper,  A PHOTOCOPIED PIECE OF PAPER,  is going to settle a damned thing?  And the people who prepared this piece of paper ARE DEAD.  Oh yeah.....this next piece of paper is even easier for nut balls to latch onto.  

But hey,  the bottom line is,  the longer birthers are tied up in this crap,  the less credible they are and the less trouble they can make elsewhere.  And that is a big part of the reason why no one is going to bend over backwards to appease them.  


He was born in Hawaii,  the evidence is more than overwhelming,  it is unassailable.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 14, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...



as I have mentioned to you before, Obama, before the age of 18, can not have his citizenship relinquished if he was a citizen at birth of the USA....

An Adult, voluntarily relinquishing their USA citizenship, if overseas, has to file such action with the American Consulate.

Obama would have had to SWEAR ALLEGIENCE to this foreign country and even if he did AT THE SILLY AGE OF 6 YEARS OLD, it would NOT be binding in the USA because he was not an adult...

PLEASE do some reading up on the laws regarding this silly notion Again Sheila...

Care


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...




And there is the heart of the matter.  None of this is about facts and legalities,  it's about Obama haters.  Particularly ignorant ones.  They'll jump on any bandwagon,  legitimate or not,  just because of their personal feelings about the man.  There is no case here.  Never has been.  The guy that started all this bullshit began this whole sham by claiming that the Hawaii BC was a fraud,  that it had been photo shopped.  When that failed,  ther rest of this poppy cock started being thrown about.  There is no evidence or reasonable claim.  Only conspiracy theorist with a bunch of very far fetched ideas.  The question has moved from "prove you were born in Hawaii",  which has been proved,  beyond a shadow of a doubt,  to the retarded notion of "prove you were not born in Kenya" or "prove you did not lose your citizenship."  You can't prove a negative.  

Once again,  I must point out the fact that if this scenario happened,  that all the stars alligned around this teenage pregnancy so that a child was born in Africa and yet somehow,  way back in 1961,  every single detail was covered,  from birth announcements,  to filing for the BC,  in perfect order,  without any delay,  without even a hint of anything irregular,  so precisiely that not only can the child be a US citizen but the ploy was carried out so meticulously that the child has ascended to the Presidency,  then Obama was fucking destined to be President.  

They knew he was going to president?  OR,  perhaps they wanted him to be born in Kenya?  This teenage girl and the father wanted him to be born in Kenya so badly that they flew there so they could proudly claim.....oh wait....they couldn't proudly claim.....they specifically birthed the child in Kenya for the specific purpose of then covering it up.  So he could grow up to be president.  They birhted the child in Kenya so they would have a secret to keep and a conspiracy to deploy.  

You birthers are fucking nuts.  None of this makes any sense,  what so ever.  The required planning and execution of this supposed birth fraud is just ridiculous.  A pregnant tennager simply didn't do this.  And if you want to imply that Obama handlers traveled back in time,  knowing he would oneday be president and directed the whole sham from the future,  please do.  I'd like to hear the exact details.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> And there is the heart of the matter.  None of this is about facts and legalities,  it's about Obama haters.  Particularly ignorant ones.  They'll jump on any bandwagon,  legitimate or not,  just because of their personal feelings about the man.  There is no case here.  Never has been.  The guy that started all this bullshit began this whole sham by claiming that the Hawaii BC was a fraud,  that it had been photo shopped.  When that failed,  ther rest of this poppy cock started being thrown about.  There is no evidence or reasonable claim.  Only conspiracy theorist with a bunch of very far fetched ideas.  The question has moved from "prove you were born in Hawaii",  which has been proved,  beyond a shadow of a doubt,  to the retarded notion of "prove you were not born in Kenya" or "prove you did not lose your citizenship."  You can't prove a negative.
> 
> Once again,  I must point out the fact that if this scenario happened,  that all the stars alligned around this teenage pregnancy so that a child was born in Africa and yet somehow,  way back in 1961,  every single detail was covered,  from birth announcements,  to filing for the BC,  in perfect order,  without any delay,  without even a hint of anything irregular,  so precisiely that not only can the child be a US citizen but the ploy was carried out so meticulously that the child has ascended to the Presidency,  then Obama was fucking destined to be President.
> 
> ...



If the short form is in dispute, and it is, then why not just release the long form?  If there is no 'controversy', if everything is on the up and up  . . . just release the original long form certificate.  Sorry, but I disagree with you about it shutting people up.  There will always be CT and doubters regardless of what is presented but I believe that if the long form was shown it would put to rest the lawsuits and the majority of doubters.

The whole 'conspiracy since birth' scenario you propose?  I don't buy that for a minute.  But could a powerful and power hungry politician buy people off in order to attain a goal?  Of course.  Could that include falsifying legal documents?  Of course.   Anything is possible.  Is that what happened?  I don't know.  I do know that I don't trust politicians and I do believe that they are a power and money hungry lot who put their own interests first, regardless of what they say.     

Has this ever happened before  . . . . lawsuits requesting an original bc form?  You say this is Obama haters  . . . well, some perhaps but if the shoe were on the other foot, and numerous and repeated questions about eligibility went unanswered by a Republican when all they had to do was release one original form . . . . wouldn't you be wary if that person didn't produce the form?  Wouldn't you wonder why they weren't?  Wouldn't it make you wonder if there was more than meets the eye?  

There is more information on the long form vs. the short form.  That is fact.  There are lawsuits from several sources on his legality/eligibility.  That is a fact.  The simplest solution to put the issue to rest for the majority of these doubters would be for Obama to request, obtain and release the original long form.  Yet, that is the one thing he will not do.  Just makes me wonder why he doesn't do this.  If everything is as it should be, what's the big deal.

On the other hand, maybe the doubters are just fucking nuts.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > And there is the heart of the matter.  None of this is about facts and legalities,  it's about Obama haters.  Particularly ignorant ones.  They'll jump on any bandwagon,  legitimate or not,  just because of their personal feelings about the man.  There is no case here.  Never has been.  The guy that started all this bullshit began this whole sham by claiming that the Hawaii BC was a fraud,  that it had been photo shopped.  When that failed,  ther rest of this poppy cock started being thrown about.  There is no evidence or reasonable claim.  Only conspiracy theorist with a bunch of very far fetched ideas.  The question has moved from "prove you were born in Hawaii",  which has been proved,  beyond a shadow of a doubt,  to the retarded notion of "prove you were not born in Kenya" or "prove you did not lose your citizenship."  You can't prove a negative.
> ...



HOW is it in dispute?  What is the dispute on his certificate of live birth?

What on the certificate is *legitimately* in dispute Zoom? 

there are hawaiian laws, that gives reason why the short form certificate of live birth, will not suffice...does Berg meet those requirements?  IF SO, berg can request the original copy, according to the state of hawaiian laws, and he can pay to get a copy....

IF according to their laws, he does not meet the requirements of such laws, then Berg can not get it. 

I have no idea why Obama has chosen to keep his long form to himself, other than he LEGALLY can....and that says it all....he has no legal obligation to show the entire world, this personal document, and Berg has no legal claim to insist on seeing it.

Whether Obama was born in hawaii or timbuktoo, he is a citizen at birth, received a birth certificate showing such....and a citizen at birth is a natural born citizen....?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

PR or Yurt or someone else maybe able to better answer your questions about Berg, Care.  

It's all the lawsuits that make me wonder.  Here's a link to all eligibility lawsuits.  It's not just one nutcase and it seems to be growing.  The Right Side of Life » Eligibility Lawsuits

His eligibility is in question by many, many people who are going to great lengths to try and get information and, despite all these lawsuits, Obama refuses to release a form that may put the whole thing to rest.   If you're ok with it all  . . . . so be it.  I find it unsettling and strange, to say the least, that Obama isn't doing anything to counter these suspicions.


----------



## jvn (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Now,  everyone claiming that the original BC would end this bullshit,  read the above.
> 
> *This isn't about any reasonable claim,  it's about harassing someone.  It will not stop with the original BC.  *
> 
> And as we see in other responses here,  no one seems to have a specific claim to make.  Just wild "what if" scenarios.



Quite right.  They won't stop, probably they can't stop because their rage that a black man, a Democrat, and "the most liberal member of the Senate" (they can pick which one it is) is President of the United States will not allow them to stop.

The President made the appropriate documentation available to the appropriate Constitutional authorities.  He has been certified of as qualified, was sworn in, and is serving as President.

Some people believe that he should make his private documentation available to the public - they have the right to their own opinion.

I agree with you that he shouldn't give in to the kooks, that only encourages them.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 14, 2009)

jvn said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Now,  everyone claiming that the original BC would end this bullshit,  read the above.
> ...


this is as bad as the 9/11 troofers
no amount of proof will change their minds


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

jvn said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Now,  everyone claiming that the original BC would end this bullshit,  read the above.
> ...




And not only will a copy of the original not put an end to it,  it will fuel more absurd claims.  There will be more conspirators,  the people who make the photocopies will be "in on it".  the people who make the photocopy machines will be "in on it",  the only thing the public will ever see is scanned images of a photocopy posted on line and obviously,  a scanned image of a photocopy is one generation farther down the line that what they have to look at now.  The mere implication that a photocopy of the orignal is somehow more valid than a certified,  prima facie document,  fails on it's own merits.  That is what the courts will continue to see.  There is no reasonable claim that the original contains any evidence not already provided and certified as correct,  by the certification.  The hospital,  the doctor,  the time of day, etc.,  is NOT RELEVANT.  

The reasons people like Zoom are giving are the exact reason why this is poppy cock.  "Becasue some other people keep saying it.....must be some truth to it."

That's UFO logic.


----------



## 007 (Jul 14, 2009)

Care4all said:


> are you under the impression that hawaii could list honolulu as obama's birth place on the short form, even if he was not born in honolulu?  And that the long form would not list honolulu as the birth place?
> care



Now you're getting the picture Care. Yes, Hawaii did back in 1961 give ANYONE a "certificate of live birth" and listed Honolulu on it simply because that's where it was "ISSUED." There is NOTHING on it that PROVES where you were born. You could have been born in Tim Buck To, and that's the whole point. The long form would not only say what "hospital" he was born in, but the "doctors name" that delivered him. To date NOTHING of the sort has been seen. And not only that, the TWO hospitals that claimed he was born there, ahem... TWO... now NEITHER are willing to stand behind their claim. Since the heat is getting turned up they now realize that THEY could ALSO be complicate in a cover up and people could go to jail, so now they're getting scared. I'd say with good reason.

And to slick willie... I've said time and again on this board that if it's proved that obama was born in Hawaii, I'll eat crow like I've never eaten crow before. But if it's proven obama was born in Kenya, and then adopted by his Indonesian step father, making him DOUBLE ineligible to be President, I'm going to make sure all those that said I was crazy, AND the ones that kept moving this into the conspiracy section, even though there's NOTHING conspiratorial about it, NEVER FORGET IT. 

There is very good reason why EVERYONE should be asking themselves.... "WHY IS OBAMA SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS KEEPING ANYTHING WITH HIS BIRTH AND NATIONALITY RECORDS HIDDEN?"


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



No one wants to see a copy of anything, just the original long form.  Once again, the majority of doubters will be satisfied if this were produced.  And once again that Obama won't do the one thing that will quiet the majority of doubters just raises more questions and doubt.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > are you under the impression that hawaii could list honolulu as obama's birth place on the short form, even if he was not born in honolulu?  And that the long form would not list honolulu as the birth place?
> ...




You are absolutley full of shit.  

Not an ounce of truth,  much less coherent thought,  to any of that.  

You are a lying piece of shit.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



No, he's not.  He's posted much information about this . . . go back and read it.


----------



## 007 (Jul 14, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



Bull shit. You may as well tell the sun it ain't gonna shine. Both are steaming piles of horse shit lies.

Get a life.


----------



## 007 (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



You're a fucking sorry ass pile of steaming pig shit. ALL of what I just said has been PROVEN on this board. So you haven't read it and/or don't believe it. Tough shit.

GO POUND SAND YOU IGNORANT, MOUTH BREATHING, SACK OF OBAMA ASS KISSING PUSS.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




Nothing of the sort has been proven.

What hasn't been proven or even suggested,  in fact, avoided by you and your ignorant ilk is WHY?

WHY Pale?  WHY?

Why did a pregnant teenager do this?  How did she do it?

Why did this teenage girl fly to Kenya, 9 months pregnant, in 1961?

Why did she then sprint back to Hawaii in less than 4 days to file for a BC?

Hawaii was giving away BCs in a free for all,  according to you.  Why did she rush back from half way around the world and get this BC filed in the exact time frame as a normal BC,  issued everyday in Hawaii?  Why Pale?  Was she clarvoiant?  

If this was all a ploy,  by a teenage girl,  to get citizenship for her son,  why did she go to Kenya?  Why Pale?  If she wanted citizenship so badly for him,  WHY Pale?  WHY did she go to Kenya?  Did she enjoy traveling as a pregnant teenager?  Did she enjoy traveling with a three day old baby,  as a teenager,  in 1961,  half around the globe,  in order to get back to Hawaii to get a BC filedthat you just said could be filed ANYFUCKINGTIME?  WHY? WHY Pale?

Why did a teenage girl not only go to the trouble of flying around the world to have a baby and then fly back to Hawaii to get a BC,  but she also made sure to go to the papers,  not only report the birth,  but get to the layout person of both papers and have the birth listed right with the other babies born the same day,  in the same hospital?  WHY Pale?

Are you claiming that a pregnant teenager has pulled off the biggest political scam in human history?  

And there is absolutley no reasonable explanation for this except one:  HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.  That's why he has a Hawaiian BC,  that's why it was filed 4 days later,  that's why his birth was announced in both papers.  To contend that someone covered all these bases,  in 1961,  not only for the sake of a BC,  ANYONE COULD GET THAT*,  but also to supply every normal and expected procedure for such a birth JUST IN CASE THIS KID EVER GROWS UP TO BE PRESIDENT ........

That's fucking insane.  

You are a fucking retard.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> jvn said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



LMAO.....your post is nothing but a conspiracy, a made up nothing....no proof nada....

LMAO

at least i've always presented facts and the law vs your made up meadowmuffins...if you don't have anything factual or legal to say, why bother saying anything as you yourself are peddling a notion with absolutely zero facts and yet you whine about others....good lord


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



no, what is lame is YOU spouting theories as fact and bashing others for presenting their own theories as to what happened...you don't even have factual knowledge about what actually occurred, all you have are "why's".....

you weren't there, so you have no idea what actually took place, so stop peddling your theories as fact and then bashing others 

hypocrite


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 14, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...


then please do explain how a woman would travel from Kenya to Hawaii in such a short time to get an HI BC and why?


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



how would i know the why....as to how....airplanes...and perhaps some people have the dates wrong in kenya...i have no clue, nor do i pretend to know and nor do i bash those who are simply postulating...that would be hypocritical if i sat here and gave my theories and presented them as facts while bashing your theories as pipe dreams

edit: 

the why is rather simple, to make sure he has american citizen status


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 14, 2009)

Yurt said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...


well, since the state of HI says he was born there, and issued him the required certifications, unless you want to both challenge and accuse the state of HI of fraud, what else is there
and why would they even worry about that back in 1961
as if they knew he would somehow need to be a natural born citizen at that time


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




You are not being reasonable.  

That's the plain truth.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Yurt said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Yurt said:
> ...



And this is where your claim starts with unreasonable poppy cock.

The woman was already in Hawaii, dumbass.  If she was so concerned about his status,  WHY woul she go to Kenya for the birth?  WHY didn't she just keep her preganant teenage self in Hawaii?
Are you suggesting that she intentionally went to Kenya to have the child just because she thought it would be fun to see how fast she could get back to Hawaii?

And in 1961?  Do you even have a fucking clue what it took to get from Kenya, Africa to Hawaii in 1961?  It took over 100 hours of flight and layover time.  

The time line is fucking impossible,  not to mention no one can supply a motive for a young teenage mother taking these extraordinary steps to cover every single angle and make this birth look just like any other.  WHY would she do that?  You retards keep pointing out that ANYONE could get a Hawaiian BC,  ANYTIME.  Why would a teenage girl fucking sprint from Africa to Hawaii?  You do understand that she would have to take the baby,  moments after birth,  get up on her own two feet and onto a plane with an hour or so,  make all the transfers and arrive in Hawaii,  after a few days of travel and hit the ground running,  stop the newspaper presses,  .....Christ.....this bullshit gets more evident as bullshit everytime.  

BULL FUCKING SHIT.  That's what you have here.  BULL FUCKING SHIT.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



Since Obama refuses to have the long form released it makes me wonder . . . . he started running for president when he became Senator (and he likely set the wheels in motion before then) . . . . if this whole 'not born in Hawaii/citizenship thing' is real, he could have had his short form bc doctored rather recently, _not that some 'conspiracy' has taken place since the day he was born_. Could a powerful and power hungry politician buy people off in order to attain a goal? Of course. Could that include falsifying legal documents? Of course.  Anything is possible.  Is that what happened? I don't know. I do know that I don't trust politicians and I do believe that they are a power and money hungry lot who put their own interests first, regardless of what they say. Does it sound loony? No doubt. Would I put it past a politician to do this, especially a politician as narcissistic as Obama? Nope.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



fyi....she did not arrange to have the births listed in 2 newspapers.  The Hawaii State Department of Health, had all hawaiian birth notices listed at the time.  They were not birth announcements by the proud parents, but BY THE STATE.  

EVEN more confirmation of his actual birth in hawaii imo.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 14, 2009)

Here is the link sweetwilly....

The  State Health Bureau listed the Hawaiian births....including obama's

http://88.80.13.160.nyud.net/leak/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaBirthStarBulletin.jpg

Also, read this link with other pertinent information which is evidence disputing the Birther's speculation...

PolitiFact | Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter. This time we mean it!



> Moreover, WorldNetDaily claims even the state of Hawaii doesn't accept "Certification of Live Birth" as proof that an individual was physically born in Hawaii.
> 
> They point to a policy from the Hawaii Department of Home Lands, which stated on its Web site:
> 
> ...


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



dude....

you asked me a question regardign one theory, and i answered you out of respect and to show solely that both are plausible.... i am not going to delve into all the theories, that has never been my game nor do i want to play that game...i care about the facts and the law and the notion that people do not have standing to see the best evidence of a president's qualification to serve....


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



IOW....yurt's right that my theories are conspiracy theories as well as i have no proof that a showing of the original will end this....you're spouting your own theories as to what happened and you weren't even there

but oh no, i point out your hypocrisy and and i am unreasonable....amazing


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




Yes Care,  I am aware of how the birth notices were forwarded to the News Papers.  That's why babies born at the same hospital on the same days,  ended up listed together.  

That is why it is one of the very twisted and unbelievable parts of this conspiracy theory.  In order for the birth announcements to appear,  just asregular as clock work,  as they always do,  someone would have to go to the hospital where they intended to claim birth of their child,  find out the babies that were born there on the same day,  babies that would have already gone home by that time,  so you'd have to get into a whole bunch of non public records.  Once you bribed or stole these records,  you now know where the birth announcement should appear.  Now,  you make your way over to TWO different news papers and somehow find the right layout people and somehow convince both of them to insert your childs name in the right place,  along side the other babies born with him.  All of this is done in a matter of hours after a four day trip from Kenya,  by a teenager,  with a four day old baby.  Not to mention that any mother or relative that would approve of such a plan would ever be thinking about how important citizenship would be to that baby because they obviously didn't care if the little fella lived or not if they stood by and allowed him to be snatched from the womb and imediately hustled through several international airports and back to Hawaii,  at four days old.  

And all of that,  because you are smart enough, crazy enough,  or paranoid enough to think that one day,  someone will challenge my babies BC and these news paper clippings are all that will keep him in the Whitehouse.  

It is insane, retarded,  incomprehensible and several other adjectives.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



you again prove you're such an ignorant moron....

i was responding solely to divecon's hypothetical you effing tool, open your eyes and read for a change instead of babbling nonsense all over the board

i don't call many people stupid, but you are fackling stupid


----------



## Yurt (Jul 14, 2009)

i believe i've read that people say we don't know who delivered obama....apparently this guy did:

Dr. Rodney T. West

Teacher from Kenmore recalls Obama was a focused student : Don't Miss : The Buffalo News


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




The birth certificate was filed in 1961.  His birth was announced to the public in two news papers as being August 4th,  1961.   You simply can't get around the events of 1961 to arrive at any reasonable doubt that something was done later.  If you claim that Obama was not born in Hawaii, in 1961,  then you have to discount the documented events of 1961.  WHY?  HOW?

Forgetting the BC,  explain the birth notices in the news papers.  Who did that and why?


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...


 
With regards to the above and flying from Kenya to Hawaii in 1961...how easy do you think this would have been?  How many commercial flights were running at that time?  How many transfers would she have had to make?  With a newborn, I might add.  How many hours of travel?  How much would it have cost?  I would be willing to bet that there was not a Nairobi to Honolulu direct flight.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if all international flights from Nairobi transferred in London.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




I read where one person had researched the route she would have traveled and it comes out to more than 100 hours to get to Hawaii from Kenya,  in 1961.  And that is considering that every flight and schedule is kept exactly.  I don't think many people here are using their heads for much more than a hat rack.  Traveling the globe in 1961 was difficult.  More difficult than a pregnant or new teenage mother could manage.  

So,  if she didn't do it,  there must have been others involved.  Maybe she made a phone call or two on her cell phone from Kenya,  back in 1961,  and set the whole thing up.

Why don't you idiots first do a little research and find out what it took to make a fucking phone call from Kenya in 1961.  Then move on up to airplanes and international transport.


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...


 
I'm sure that he was born a week before his reported birthday, to allow his mother the time to travel from Kenya to Honolulu.  

(Watch this little theory propagate throughout the interweb by the conspiracy loons)


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 14, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Here is the link sweetwilly....
> 
> The State Health Bureau listed the Hawaiian births....including obama's
> 
> ...


 
But how can we be sure that those announcements are referring to the same "Mr. & Mrs. Barack H. Obama"?

Ah!  I got you!  I disproved your silly "proof"!


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...




Sure....and Obama's father,  who had only arrived in Hawaii by the virtue of donated airfares,  and his mother who was also a student at the university,  funded these thousands and thousands of dollars in airfare to make this trip,  out of their broke ass teenage college student pockets. 

OR

This white girl from Kansas had family that was so proud of her getting married to an African in 1961,  that they footed the bill for the whole conspiracy.

OR

Obama Sr.'s family sold enough fucking dirt to pay for it.  


Get it through your heads,  you idiots.  This was a young  black / white couple in 1961,  attending school in Hawaii.  Try to remember,  it isn't Barak jr. you're accusing of this.  It's his parents in 1961.  

They simply were not capable and additionally,  had no reason what so ever to try and pull off such an elaborate hoax.  

If they wanted US citizenship for little Barak,  it would be easy:  Stay in Hawaii.  We're already here.

But no,  for some reason,  it makes sense to some idiots that a pregnant teenager,  one smart enough to know all about BCs and birth announcements,  was dumb enough to leave Hawaii in order to birth her child in a third world country,  even though she wanted US citizenship for him.

So.....I want so badly to give birth in a diesease infested,  110 degree,  African shit hole of a Hospital,  and also want US citizenship for my kid,  that I am willing to take on a task that Magellan himself would be proud of.   

Rather than have the baby in Hawaii,  in a nice air conditioned hospital,  with good doctors,  this young couple went to Africa?

You're a bunch of fucking idiots.  I can't say that enough.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



I haven't discounted anything.  I believe he was born August 4, 1961.  It's the 'where' that is in dispute.

You don't think Obama needs to produce his long form original bc in order to put to rest this whole thing  . . . . yet you believe that a birth announcement placed in a newspaper stating the date he was born and an address (but not the hospital) is proof he was born in Hawaii?  Who would have put that in the paper?  My guess, if he was born there, his parents.  If he wasn't, his grandmother.  Or his parents.  They had phones back in 1961, didn't they?

Maybe this is all bunk.  But since there are numerous lawsuits and many people involved  . . . . the easiest, simplest thing to do to dispute it all and put it to rest would be for Obama to obtain and release the original long form.  This would be the end of the story for the majority of doubters.   It's such a simple thing  . . . .


----------



## xotoxi (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...


 
I remember when I got my black girlfriend pregnant in college...we wanted to have a tribal birth in Mali, but we just couldn't afford the trip.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...




The BC that EVERYONE uses in Hawaii is such a simple thing too.  The sole intended purpose of that document is to establish the facts of your birth.  The last thing anyone with anything to do with the law or the state or the courts will allow to happen is to come anywhere close to agreeing that this BC is not proof of the details of your birth.  That turns our entire countries system of vital statistics on it's head.  

Your guesses about the paper are wrong.  It list the address and names of the parents,  supplied by the DOH in Hawaii.  If you guess the grandparents did it,  then you must also guess that they staked out the hospital,  took the names of all the babies born that day,  found the editor and layout person at both papers and had Obama's birth listed smack in the middle of the same babies born that day,  at that hospital.  

The newspaper listings are EVIDENCE.  That is what you lack.  If you have a credible certificate or birth announcement that dispoutes it,  then you've got something.  But the fact is,  you don't.  

You admitt that it is only the dismissed, frivilous court cases that make you think this might be true.  You have no reasonable cause.  You have rejected and disproved theories and frivilous cases.  NOTHING.


----------



## 007 (Jul 14, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Here is the link sweetwilly....
> 
> The  State Health Bureau listed the Hawaiian births....including obama's
> 
> ...



With all that Care, not one thing proves obama was born in Hawaii. That whole bunch of rigamaroll is just an obama support website saying, "we say he was born in Hawaii, and that's that." But there's still no proof. That tiny little entry in the newspaper is a generic ad put in the paper whenever anyone was issued a certification of live birth, and it still proves absolutely NOTHING. No hospital, no doctors name, no nothing... absolutely still 100% void of anything that could even remotely be considered PROOF.

I'm sorry... but the VAST PREPONDERANCE of PROOF is that ONE, OBAMA IS HIDDING HIS REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, WHY? OBAMA IS HIDING EVERYTHING THAT SHEDS LIGHT ON HIS BIRTH PLACE, AND NATIONALITY, WHY? OBAMA IS SPENDING MILLIONS ON KEEPING ALL THIS INFORMATION HIDDEN, WHY?

You'll have to come up with something that PROVES, 1) what hospital he was born in, since he's claimed two different ones to date, and 2) the doctors name that delivered him, and 3) this information must be verifiable.... like on a REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Do that, then you'll have something. Actually, you'll have enough to put an end to this. Until then, you guys are just pumping gas.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the link sweetwilly....
> ...




You are completely and totally delusional.

There is no requirement to provide what hospital or the doctor.

You're a shit bag idiot.


----------



## 007 (Jul 14, 2009)

xotoxi said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > xotoxi said:
> ...



You poor thing... did you name it Oreo?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



Of course the newspaper would list the parents.  Guess I missed putting that in my response.  My guess that the grandmother put the announcement in the paper?  My mom put an announcement in the paper when my oldest was born; it seemed logical to me that Obama's grandmother would do the same.  Why would they stake out the hospital?  Wouldn't they just call the newspaper to have the announcement placed?

The newspaper announcement I saw listed the parents name and address, child's sex, date of birth.  Unless more information is provided, a birth announcement in a newspaper is simply that  . . . and nothing more.  

The court cases do make me wonder about it all.  If it were me, I'd just produce the damn original long form once and for all and silence the majority of doubters.  If this is all a non-issue  . . .


----------



## 007 (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



Well yeah... slick... there is. You saying over and over there isn't is just, well, you saying it over and over. You may as well be flatulating.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...




There is more information.  The other babies listed before and after Obama.  The babies born the same day,  in the same hospital,  listed in order.  The birth reports came in and were listed as they were recieved,  by hospital,  in order.  Who took the time to take this called in announcement and have it placed in propper order among the other babies born at that hopsital?  How did that happen?  Someone would need to know the names of the other babies,  born at that hospital,  on that day,  and insist that Obama's announcement be placed in that order.

None of this adds up for anyone with an ounce of common sesne.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...




You are delusional.

There is no requirement for anyone to provide the hospital or Doctor.  If there is,  bring it forward.


Don't you have a mod to fuck with?


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



Can you link the announcement you're looking at because the one I'm looking at doesn't provide any hospital information.  Actually, the announcement above Obama's is listed as August 5, so I'm not getting a sense of babies born the same day, in order, etc.  I'm looking at the one from FactCheck.org.  It's about 3/4 or so down the page.  FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 14, 2009)

health bureau STATISTICS, upper left on the ad

births, marriages and deaths

the state of hawaii ran the ad for HAWAIIAN BIRTHS, marriages and deaths....NOT individuals

http://88.80.13.160.nyud.net/leak/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaBirthStarBulletin.jpg


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom-boing said:
> ...




See Care's post.

The Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin both print the information released by the DOH.


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 14, 2009)

Care4all said:


> health bureau STATISTICS, upper left on the ad
> 
> births, marriages and deaths
> 
> ...



The first link is the one posted on FactCheck.  It's just an announcement, no hospital information.  This doesn't provide any information that he was _born _there.  Anyone can phone in announcements to be placed.

Honestly, I'm not being some stubborn looner  . . . there are just too many unanswered questions about this.   And I know I sound like a broken record but if the long form were released it would put this issue to rest.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 14, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > health bureau STATISTICS, upper left on the ad
> ...




No, not just anyone could have an announcement placed in the section headed "Health Bureau Statistics".   They call it that for a reason.  Can you guess why?  And why did she call both News papers?  Just wanted to be sure?  So I'm sure you have the Kansas news paper announcement that this proud grand mother called in,  right?  Back home for the family?

In fact,  the Honolulu Advertiser has a policy that no one can phone in annoucements at all.  You must provided a copy of a BC to get a birth announcement.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

> The exact same notice appeared the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. *The numerous birth announcements above and below the Obama listing also were identical in both papers, which were unaffiliated, competing publications.*
> 
> Advertiser columnist and former Star-Bulletin managing editor Dave Shapiro was not at either paper in 1961, but he remembers how the birth notices process worked years later when both papers were jointly operated by the Hawaii Newspaper Agency  which no longer exists.
> 
> "Those were listings that came over from the state Department of Health," he said. "They would send the same thing to both papers."


Obama's Hawaii boyhood homes drawing gawkers | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser


The listings in the two papers were identical in their order.  To suppose that this birth was called in and somehow ended up stuck right in the same order is absurd.  Especially when the obvious answer is right there in front of your face:  They were the same list,  supplied by the DOH to each paper.


----------



## Emma (Jul 15, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Actually,  the President of the Hospital has read this letter aloud at the Hospital,  during an anniversary celebration of some sort.
> ...



He has, and no it won't


----------



## Emma (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm not reading all 28 pages now... is there a link to the letter on the hospital website? I've looked and can't seem to find it.

EDIT: I found this: http://www.kapiolanigift.org/centennial.aspx?id=1728

What he is reading does not match the alleged letter in your OP.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

Emma said:


> I'm not reading all 28 pages now... is there a link to the letter on the hospital website? I've looked and can't seem to find it.




A link to the letter?  

I don't know about the hospital web site.  I can get you a link to the letter being read at the Hospital.
  Actually,  there is a video link on the hospital web site.

Kapi&#39; olani Health Foundation | The Centennial Dinner 1/24/09

it is near the end of the first video.


----------



## Emma (Jul 15, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not reading all 28 pages now... is there a link to the letter on the hospital website? I've looked and can't seem to find it.
> ...



Thanks. I just found that. What he's reading doesn't match the letter in the OP, though.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

Emma said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



I haven't listened and read at the same time.  

At any rate,  it was announced, at the Hospital,  that Obama was born there.


----------



## Emma (Jul 15, 2009)

Ok. Finally lol.

http://www.kapiolanigift.org/press_room/Publications/Inspire Magazine Spring 2009.pdf

page 8


----------



## Emma (Jul 15, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...


Yup. 

It doesn't matter. No amount of proof will ever satisfy the troofers. Like all conspiracy kooks, any evidence against them just convinces them in their feeble little minds that they were right all along.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

Emma said:


> Ok. Finally lol.
> 
> http://www.kapiolanigift.org/press_room/Publications/Inspire Magazine Spring 2009.pdf
> 
> page 8



Yes,  that is the image that World Nuts Daily swears isn't there anymore.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 15, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > health bureau STATISTICS, upper left on the ad
> ...



Really, I thought Fact Check only showed a cut of the Obama Birth Announcement that ran, I did not realize that Fackcheck showed the near FULL PAGE of the newspaper which showed at the top that the Hawaiian State Health Bureau Statistics RAN THE AD, as they did every single week....

At this point Zoom you are soooooooooooooooo reaching for the moon to stand behind your original stance.

The government did not take call ins to announce who was born in Hawaii...These statistics came from the hospitals, doctors and midwives delivering the children BORN THERE....

The DEATH announcements were for people that DIED THERE, and the Marriage announcements were for people that got MARRIED THERE, IN HAWAII.

For you to even imply that "anyone could call in" these birth announcements and the State of hawaii would just take their word for it is beyond absurd, HONESTLY beyond absurd.

Hospitals are not listed on ANY OF THE CHILDREN born...there is no conspiracy zoom...it's just none of your business, this is one of the things Hawaii felt was confidential as well, thus not listed on the short form and held private.

DID YOU IGNORE the post where I gave you the interview with a woman that works at the Health Bureau and SHE SAID, that if anyone was not born in hawaii AND SOMEWHERE ELSE, and this information was on his/her Original, then THIS INFORMATION would be ON HIS/HER SHORT FORM.....got it?  She said, and I gave you the link above....she said... that Honolulu, Hawaii would NOT show as his birth place, unless it WAS HIS BIRTHPLACE.

So, trying to say anyone like Obama's grandmom, could call in and give this information to the health bureau of VITAL STATISTICS is ridiculous....and you know it!

Care


----------



## Zoom-boing (Jul 15, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Zoom-boing said:
> 
> 
> > Care4all said:
> ...



No, FactCheck only shows a snippet, _which is why I asked for a link_.  I hadn't seen what you provided, only the snippet.  

The birth announcement does indicate that he was born there if, as you say, the information for birth announcements and the like were obtained from hospitals and main sources.  Were birth announcement done differently then vs. now?  I"m just asking because I don't believe they gather this info from one main source, rather it's put in the paper from whoever calls it in (at least, that what we did when our oldest was born).  



> At this point Zoom you are soooooooooooooooo reaching for the moon to stand behind your original stance.
> 
> The government did not take call ins to announce who was born in Hawaii...These statistics came from the hospitals, doctors and midwives delivering the children BORN THERE....
> 
> ...



Reaching for the moon?  Tons of speculation, unanswered questions, lawsuits (I read 20) and most odd  -- Obama _refusing _to release to long form to just put the thing to rest  . . . . and now a soldier has refused orders because he doesn't believe Obama is the CiC (due to this whole controversy) and they've squashed it, see: http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-qualifications-to-be-president-and-wins.html  . . . . I find it strange that so many are willing to ignore it all and just accept, without question.


----------



## sealybobo (Jul 15, 2009)

Care4all said:


> health bureau STATISTICS, upper left on the ad
> 
> births, marriages and deaths
> 
> ...



Without knowing for sure, you just know that this is a right wing lie.

Look at how they went after the Clinton's for:

Whitewater, the death of [Clinton administration deputy White House counsel] Vince Foster, the curtailment of 'bimbo eruptions,' Travelgate, Filegate, and Monicagate?" The anonymously authored column continued: "Did she have an affair with Vince Foster -- as was reported in The American Spectator in the 1990s? Is she a lesbian, as has also been rumored for years?"

Ok, so Monicagate was true, but BFD.  Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 15, 2009)

Emma said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



it matches it exactly.....nice try


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 15, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



Specific claim:  Obama will not release his long form, his Kenyan Grandmother claims to have been present at his birth and she has never left Kenya.  

Specific clam #2:  He went to Pakistan after the age of majority on an Indonesian passport and Indonesia doesn't accept duel citizenship.

TWO things that can be easily disproved with a release of his long form birth certificate and his passport.  He will not do those things.  Why?

AND FYI, I watched that video where the Grandmother claims to have been present at his birth with my friends who came here from Kenya.  They said that is EXACTLY what she said.  They also voted for him.  One of them still supports him.

Here we have supporters of Obama that KNOW he's not eligible to be president and don't care....I have a feeling you are one of those.


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 15, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > health bureau STATISTICS, upper left on the ad
> ...



So in addition to being an Obama worshiper, you're a clinton worshiper...gee what a surprise.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...




Baloney.

The interview with Obamas's grandmother is conclusive.  She repeatedly says he was born in Hawaii.  To hang on the word "yes" given in answer to an obviously misleading question when there are about five other following statements that say "he was born in Hawaii",  only demonstrates your desperation to believe in this myth.

There is no evidence that Barak Obama ever held an Indonesian passport.  None.  This claim arises from false reports that there was a travel ban by the US State Department for Pakistan,  at that time.  No such ban ever existed.  It is a false claim and it is the only reason or evidence given that Obama simply must have had an Indonesian passport.  The fact is,  there was no travel ban.  And that is what that whole pile of crap was born out of.  

The fact that so many are still inclined to swallow not only one or two,  but several different wild speculations demonstrates that there is no reasonable claim.  There is only a hopeless claim that Obama is not a citizen and if we fling enough different bullshit scenarios at it,  maybe something will stick.  

But nothing will stick.  All of the hard evidence says he was born in Hawaii.  Reasonable people aren't making these claims.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

Shelia,  I do have to ask you,  after listening to the tape again,  do you beleive that Grandmother Obama's son,  Barak Sr.,  a dead man,  was running for President of the United States?  

I don't think a dead man was running at all.  I think it was either a mistake made by the interviewer or he intentionally was misleading Ms Obama.  Regardless,  on the tape,  it is said that her SON is running for president.  So I am wondering,  do you also take this for the indisputable truth?  It was said on that tape and that tape is solid gold evidence, right?


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

The more I think about it,  the more I think we should be questioning Obama Sr.'s death certificate.  Has anyone seen a copy of it?  The original?  The man on this tape claims he is running for president.  How can he run if he is dead?  Obviously,  he is not dead. 

I demand the release of Obama Sr.'s original death certificate!


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 15, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> Shelia,  I do have to ask you,  after listening to the tape again,  do you beleive that Grandmother Obama's son,  Barak Sr.,  a dead man,  was running for President of the United States?
> 
> I don't think a dead man was running at all.  I think it was either a mistake made by the interviewer or he intentionally was misleading Ms Obama.  Regardless,  on the tape,  it is said that her SON is running for president.  So I am wondering,  do you also take this for the indisputable truth?  It was said on that tape and that tape is solid gold evidence, right?



I think you are listening to a tape while I was watching a video...two DIFFERENT things.  In the video I watched, she specifically said that she was there at his birth and this was translated by my friends who are from Kenya.


----------



## Yurt (Jul 15, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Sweet Willy said:
> 
> 
> > Shelia,  I do have to ask you,  after listening to the tape again,  do you beleive that Grandmother Obama's son,  Barak Sr.,  a dead man,  was running for President of the United States?
> ...



what video?


----------



## Againsheila (Jul 15, 2009)

Yurt said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet Willy said:
> ...



It was on youtube and I lost my computer (this is a new one) so I lost the bookmark.  I'm not feeling well and am not going to go looking for it right now, maybe later.


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 15, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...





I saw a video with a transcript of the telephone interview.  I have never seen any video of Grandma claiming she was at his birth.  Considering that it isn't splashed all over the place,  I doubt your claim and would need the evidence to entertain such a claim,  coming from a conspiracy type.

In fact,  the video here shows Grandma saying that the first time she met Obama he was many years past birth.  In fact,  he was 26 years old and Grandma isn't shy about the fact that she was happy to meet her grandson.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UreJZMY_2IY]YouTube - Obama's Kenyan Roots[/ame]

"Definitely it was a very happy occasion for him coming back to meet his family,  as it was for me to meet my grandson."


You are all full of poppy cock.  (And bullshit too)


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 16, 2009)




----------



## jvn (Jul 17, 2009)

One of the things we have heard from the "troofers" for some time now is that the President's COLB cannot be relied upon to verify that the President was born in Hawaii because "anyone born anywhere can get one from the state..."

Well...

To push back against rumors that he was not born in Hawaii, the campaign reproduced a Certificate of Live Birth from the states Health Department. Instead of terminating the conspiracy theories, that inspired new theories  that the certificate had been forged or that even if it hadnt been forged it was the sort of certificate that could be given to someone born outside of the United States. But the certificate is specific about Obamas birth in Honolulu, down to the 7:24 p.m. time.

Its crazy, said Janice Okubo, director of communications for the Hawaii Department of Health. I dont think anything is ever going to satisfy them.

Okubo, who said that she gets weekly questions from Obama Birthers that are more like threats, explained that the certificate of live birth reproduced by Obamas campaign should have debunked the conspiracy theories. *If you were born in Bali, for example, Okubo explained, you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate.* But its become very clear that it doesnt matter what I say. The people who are questioning this bring up all these implausible scenarios. What if the physician lied? What if the state lied? Its just become an urban legend at this point.

&#8216;Birther&#8217; Movement Dogs Republicans | The Washington Independent

So now the state of Hawaii has told us two salient facts:

(1)  The state has a birth certificate on file for the president
(2)  That birth certificate says that he was born in Hawaii

I suppose that y'all are still left with "since his father wasn't a citizen, he's not an NBC" argument, but that kind of falls flat because no one challenged him on it and it was a well known and publicized fact.

The Clinton campaign did not challenge him on that issue.

No state officials GOP or otherwise challenged him on that issue.

The McCain campaign did not challenge him on that issue.

No member of the Electoral College challenged him on that issue.

No member of Congress challenged him on that issue.

The Supreme Court of the United States has declined on more than one occasion, before the election, before the EC vote, before the Congressional certification, before the inauguration, and since, to hear cases that contained the challenge on the issue of his father's citizenship.

I'd say this is a dead issue now, huh?


----------



## bk1983 (Jul 17, 2009)

He produced the only document you can obtain in Hawaii, a certificate of live birth. I currently live in Hawaii and was born and raised here, the certificate of live birth is the only document the dept. of health will give. You cannot order or obtain certified copies of your original or long form. 



> From 1900 to 1946 the U.S. Census Bureau designed standard birth certificates, collected vital statistics on a national basis, and generally sought to improve the accuracy of vital statistics. In 1946 that responsibility was passed to the U.S. Public Health Service. Unlike the British system of recording all births in "registers", the states file an individual document for each and every birth. *In most states, this document was, and still is, entitled a "Certificate of Live Birth".[3][4]*
> 
> Whereas the long form is a copy of the actual birth certificate, *a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate*.



Birth certificate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> *Citing her statutory authority to oversee and maintain Hawaii&#8217;s vital records, Fukino said she has &#8220;personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama&#8217;s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.*
> 
> &#8220;No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii,&#8221; Fukino added.
> 
> Lingle, a Republican, has been campaigning on the Mainland for Obama&#8217;s opponent, Sen. John McCain of Arizona.



http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2008/10/27/daily60.html


----------



## bk1983 (Jul 17, 2009)

Againsheila said:


> Yurt said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...


----------



## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Jul 27, 2009)

thats interesting bk1983


----------



## AllieBaba (Jul 27, 2009)

bk1983 said:


> He produced the only document you can obtain in Hawaii, a certificate of live birth. I currently live in Hawaii and was born and raised here, the certificate of live birth is the only document the dept. of health will give. You cannot order or obtain certified copies of your original or long form.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can, however, give the hospital the authority to verify the birth. Obama won't. What a jackass.


----------



## Modbert (Jul 27, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> You can, however, give the hospital the authority to verify the birth. Obama won't. What a jackass.



Uh, really Allie?

1st Video:

Kapi' olani Health Foundation | The Centennial Dinner 1/24/09

Starting at 2:11

Gee Whiz! The Hospital reading Obama's letter at being proud of his birth at that hospital! What do you call that?


----------



## RadiomanATL (Jul 27, 2009)

AllieBaba said:


> You can, however, give the hospital the authority to verify the birth. Obama won't. What a jackass.



Why should he? The lunatic fringe of the Republican party is making the whole Republican party look nuttier than a can of Planters, which lets the Democrats solidify and expand their base. Which by the way also helps the Democrats steamroll their large steaming brown piles of legislation over America.

Kinda like the Cindy-Sheehan-type loonies did nothing but marginalize and make Democrats the laughing stock in '04.

OF COURSE Obama wants to keep this one going, and the best and smartest way for him to do it is to keep his mouth shut about the whole thing.

Duh.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 27, 2009)

RadiomanATL said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > You can, however, give the hospital the authority to verify the birth. Obama won't. What a jackass.
> ...


 

thats it exactly
and the root of this conspiracy came from the Clinton camp

kinda makes you wonder if this was the plan all along


----------



## RadiomanATL (Jul 27, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



I don't think that was the plan all along, but they've damn sure taken advantage of the circumstances.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 27, 2009)

RadiomanATL said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > RadiomanATL said:
> ...


i know
i was just throwing that out there for the tin foilers


----------



## Sweet Willy (Jul 27, 2009)

RadiomanATL said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > You can, however, give the hospital the authority to verify the birth. Obama won't. What a jackass.
> ...



Yep.  This is political gold.  

To have a fairly significant number of nutters and more and more mainstreamers joining a lost cause,  fighting an issue that you already know the answer to,  is a dream come true.   Some of the most vicious of your detractors are busy with something that amounts to nothing.

And you have to do absolutely nothing.  The issue sells itself.  Couldn't have been planned any better and it just fell into his lap.  He'd be a fool to try and end it.


----------



## Emma (Jul 27, 2009)

Sweet Willy said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> > AllieBaba said:
> ...



Absolutely


----------



## 007 (Jul 27, 2009)

You won't think so when it's proven he wasn't eligible...


----------



## Emma (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> You won't think so when it's proven he wasn't eligible...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGzwNdTVHJo]YouTube - Don't Stop Believing(Journey)[/ame]


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> You won't think so when it's proven he wasn't eligible...


and since he has a valid HI COLB, that wont ever happen


----------



## Emma (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> You won't think so when it's proven he wasn't eligible...


More fitting, I guess. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYojs78Tf9Y]YouTube - Dream on - Aerosmith[/ame]


----------



## 007 (Jul 28, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > You won't think so when it's proven he wasn't eligible...
> ...



Well, it's already been established long ago, a Hawaiian certification of live birth issued in 1961 doesn't prove spit, especially where you were born.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...


except the one he showed wasnt issued in 1961
it was issues within the last 2 years(dont remember the exact date)


----------



## Emma (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



http://www.usmessageboard.com/1349459-post440.html


----------



## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 28, 2009)

Well it all has been settled now so you rightwing nutjobs looking for anything to deny this black man the presidency can now shut the hell up  and quit acting like delusional monkeys:


Hawaii again declares Obama birth certificate real - Yahoo! News


----------



## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> You won't think so when it's proven he wasn't eligible...




So what do you think about this moron?



Hawaii again declares Obama birth certificate real - Yahoo! News


----------



## Emma (Jul 28, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > You won't think so when it's proven he wasn't eligible...
> ...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/1374820-post58.html


----------



## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 28, 2009)

Emma said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



lol, didn't realize that.


----------



## 007 (Jul 28, 2009)

Emma said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Oh sheeeezuz... please Emma... tell me you're not dumb enough to site wiki as a source of information...


----------



## 007 (Jul 28, 2009)

Charlie Bass said:


> Well it all has been settled now so you *rightwing nutjobs looking for anything to deny this black man the presidency *can now shut the hell up  and quit acting like delusional monkeys:



And there you have it.... RIGHT THERE is part of the problem. The powers to be, "our government," know that if it is ever established that obama was NOT eligible to be President, or senator for that matter, you want to hear CONSPIRACY! Shit the blacks in this country will NEVER believe it, even if the prove is indisputable. They'll riot to the point of throwing this country into anarchy. The blacks and the whites will suffer a race relations set back clear to the Civil War. You think our government wants that? Fuck no they don't. They no more want to see proof of where obama was born than the man in the moon does. Problem is, this issue is NOT going away. It's just getting bigger. I heard on the news last night that now 49.7% of the COUNTRY thinks obama should release his birth certificate, and the number grows bigger every day. So you people here that think this is a non issue, it will soon be YOU who is the MINORITY. We who want this issue resolved, we who want to see this damn real birth certificate we hear so much about, WE WILL BE HEARD, WE WILL HAVE OUR DAY. And you better hope and pray we're all wrong.


----------



## Care4all (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



Is there a spot on the Original Birth Certificate that allows the State to put ANOTHER FOREIGN place of Birth on it back in 1961?

NO, THERE IS NOT.

So, there is NOTHING AT ALL on the original birth certificate that could prove that Obama was born elsewhere.

YOU or some other person believing this, posted a birth certificate from the time, and there was no slot or line on the form where one could have both Kenya and honolulu as birth place.

THERE IS NOTHING at all on the original birth certificate that would show the birth place, any other place but Hawaii?

The Department of Health also SAID that if the short form says Honolulu, then the LONG form says Honolulu as birth place...they don't haphazzardly get to choose what to put on the short form, it is computer generated COPY of the information on the original copy.

From all of the lengthy and I mean LENGTHY research on this the form you are looking for is called a Certification of Citizenship, which was issued to foreign born babies of American citizens.

John McCain's birth certificate does NOT list the mother's town as his birth place, it states Panama....yet, he is still a citizen according to our laws....and has a certification of citizenship form.

Obama's BIRTH certificate if he were born overseas, would list Kenya...yet still be a citizen of the united states through naturalization and have a certification of citizenship form..

Foreign born babies WERE NOT EVER issued Birth Certificates for the State of Hawaii or Certifications of Live Births for the State of Hawaii back in 1961 AS YOU KEEP CLAIMING....I spent hours researching such and it is simply NOT TRUE....

care


----------



## 007 (Jul 28, 2009)

Care4all said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



care... you're getting way off kilter here... his original birth certificate would have been ISSUED in Hawaii if he was BORN in Hawaii. It will say HAWAII on it, AND THE HOSPITAL, AND THE DOCTOR, and THAT is what everybody wants to see.

So why is obama hiding it?


----------



## Care4all (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



I don't know honestly....there could be information on it that they feel is private...the doctor's name, how many children she had before obama, delivered or otherwise...

Whatever?

Even if the copy of the original were released they would black out all the info like that, which is not pertinent and you would only see the parts that are available on the computer generated one...so, you will see honolulu hawaii...what is on the LEGAL certification of Live birth form....

Why do you want to see the original verses the Legal one made avail?

Why is it so important for you to see the original?

What will it tell you that will instantly make him the natural born citizen that he is?

Or is this just a stepping stone for MORE accusations....?

Like once you get the Doctor's name, you will track him down to verify, and if he is dead, then obama had him killed to hide his real birth info...?

WHAT'S NEXT Pale....where do you go once you see the original which STATES HONOLULU AS BIRTH place, exactly as what is reported and certified to be true, on the certification of live birth?


----------



## Bass v 2.0 (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > Well it all has been settled now so you *rightwing nutjobs looking for anything to deny this black man the presidency *can now shut the hell up  and quit acting like delusional monkeys:
> ...



If he wasn't eligible don't you think that would have already been established why did you nutjobs start questioning this after Obama beat Hillary in the primaries and after he won the election? Had he lost both of those you nutjobs wouldn't asking for a birth certificate.


----------



## Emma (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



Only if it's sourced.


----------



## Emma (Jul 28, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> We who want this issue resolved, we who want to see this damn real birth certificate we hear so much about, WE WILL BE HEARD, WE WILL HAVE OUR DAY.



No, you won't:

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individuals birth.  The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a persons birth.  *Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.*


Sorry.


----------



## DiveCon (Jul 28, 2009)

Emma said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


i use wiki only to find the source, then link the source
i will sometimes use wiki just because i dont feel like pasting in more than one link


----------



## bk1983 (Jul 31, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Charlie Bass said:
> 
> 
> > Well it all has been settled now so you *rightwing nutjobs looking for anything to deny this black man the presidency *can now shut the hell up  and quit acting like delusional monkeys:
> ...



So now the Hawaii State Govt is in on the conspiracy? Pale be honest with yourself, nothing will convince you. Even if Obama's long form or original was released you still would claim foul play and probably blame it on the "powers to be" Again for the slow and stupid you cannot obtain the long form or original in Hawaii, we only get certified copies of the COLB. The exact same one that is readily available for public viewing.


----------



## Emma (Aug 1, 2009)

bk1983 said:


> So now the Hawaii State Govt is in on the conspiracy? Pale be honest with yourself, nothing will convince you. Even if Obama's long form or original was released you still would claim foul play and probably blame it on the "powers to be" Again for the slow and stupid you cannot obtain the long form or original in Hawaii, we only get certified copies of the COLB. The exact same one that is readily available for public viewing.


If they are now convinced the state of Hawaii is in on this, why should WE believe they'll accept a 'long' form birth certificate even IF the state were to issue one?


----------



## DiveCon (Aug 1, 2009)

Emma said:


> bk1983 said:
> 
> 
> > So now the Hawaii State Govt is in on the conspiracy? Pale be honest with yourself, nothing will convince you. Even if Obama's long form or original was released you still would claim foul play and probably blame it on the "powers to be" Again for the slow and stupid you cannot obtain the long form or original in Hawaii, we only get certified copies of the COLB. The exact same one that is readily available for public viewing.
> ...


and that right there is the reason why they wont release it

look at all the records Bush released to give in to the demands, we got to see his DENTAL records and the "Bush was AWOL" nutters still claimed it


----------



## Emma (Aug 1, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > bk1983 said:
> ...



I guess he _has_ to hire lawyers to answer the suits filed in court, but other than that, I don't believe he should give them the time of day. It will only feed their conspiracy theories. That's how those things work. Each answer, each piece of evidence to the contrary is _PROOF!!!_ that the conspiracy is even broader than they suspected. Response only makes it grow and grow ever more ridiculous.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 1, 2009)

So now the Hawaii State Govt is in on the conspiracy? Pale be honest with yourself, nothing will convince you. Even if Obama's long form or original was released you still would claim foul play and probably blame it on the "powers to be" Again for the slow and stupid you cannot obtain the long form or original in Hawaii, we only get certified copies of the COLB. The exact same one that is readily available for public viewing.[/QUOTE]

uh yeah,if you knew anything at all about goverment,you would know government corruption runs rapid here in this country.your all just in denial about government conspiracys is all.


----------



## Emma (Aug 1, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> uh yeah,if you knew anything at all about goverment,you would know government corruption runs rapid here in this country.your all just in denial about government conspiracys is all.



Considering the huge number of people already implicated in this conspiracy and that would be needed to keep it going... how do they keep them all quiet? ALL of them?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 1, 2009)

Pale Rider said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Pale Rider said:
> ...



LOlnow I know why all you Obama apologists have been so brainwashed by the media.Wiki is a horrible source to use as information,they can type in anything they want to there.They always cover up the truth about government conspiracys there at that site.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Aug 1, 2009)

Emma said:


> 9/11 inside job said:
> 
> 
> > uh yeah,if you knew anything at all about goverment,you would know government corruption runs rapid here in this country.your all just in denial about government conspiracys is all.
> ...



simple,theres a thing called being greedy and selfish.you might consider it that thats why they are willing to keep their mouths shut.a thing called money.sheesh.


----------



## Emma (Aug 1, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 inside job said:
> ...



So EVERYONE with any possible connection to the wider conspiracy is being paid off? Now stop to consider all the people in the past 48 years who would have to keep their mouths shut in order for this to continue. And consider what _some_ of them stand to lose if it comes to light that they lied. All of them are being paid off, eh? 

By whom?


----------



## Emma (Aug 1, 2009)

And you mention how greedy and selfish people are. What's to keep them from becoming even _more_ greedy and more selfish? What's to prevent them from trying to blackmail or extort even _more_ money from this person who is paying them off?


----------

