# California bill could create sanctuary state for non felon illegal immigrants



## HatInRing (Jul 6, 2012)

*California bill could create sanctuary state for non-felon illegal immigrants*

*By Cristina Corbin
Published July 05, 2012
FoxNews.com*

California lawmakers are considering a new bill that could create a sanctuary state for illegal immigrants seeking protection from Arizonas strict immigration law.

The Transparency and Responsibility Using State Tools, or TRUST Act, which is currently making its way through the California legislature, would prohibit local law enforcement from turning over illegal immigrants for deportation except for those with serious felony convictions. 

Debate over the bill comes after the nation's highest court last month upheld the most controversial provision of the Arizona immigration law -- requiring local police to check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally. Federal immigration officials have said they will be selective in responding to those calls and have already moved to shield some categories of illegal immigrants nationwide from deportation, but the provision is still on the books in Arizona.      

Critics of the California measure call it a "huge mistake," even dangerous. But proponents say local law enforcement should not be entangled in enforcing federal immigration law.

The Trust Act is a good idea for California because we want to position ourselves as the anti-Arizona, said Angela Chan, a senior staff attorney with the Asian Law Caucus, a San Francisco-based civil rights organization in support of the bill. 

Chan also said the Trust Act, sponsored by Democratic Assemblyman Tom Ammiano of San Francisco, seeks to remedy what she described as problems with the Obama administrations Secure Communities program, which lets local jails conduct immigration checks on everyone who is arrested. The federal program has led to the deportation of thousands of illegal immigrants  many of whom have no criminal records  and has been fiercely criticized by civil rights activists. 

Seven of the 10 people deported under this program have no criminal convictions, Chan told FoxNews.com. 

An ICE spokeswoman, however, disputed that statistic, saying the actual numbers are reversed -- that nearly 75 percent of people deported through Secure Communities have one or more criminal convictions.

Chan said the programs implementation has resulted in an undercutting of community policing, meaning immigrant residents may be afraid to call local law enforcement if they are witnesses or victims of a crime out of fear of deportation.

The trust act will rebuild the communitys confidence in law enforcement, added Jon Rodney of the California Immigrant Policy Center. 

But critics of the Trust Act argue it will force local police to release individuals without conducting a thorough enough background check on them, running the risk of letting some very dangerous people" slip through the cracks. 

This is a huge mistake, said Jessica Vaughan, director of policy studies at the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies. 

It benefits mainly the illegal aliens who are here committing crimes and makes it much harder for federal and local law enforcement agencies to protect people who have to live with the illegal aliens who are creating the crime, Vaughan told FoxNews.com. The local law enforcement agency may not know what convictions or other offenses are on that persons record.  They may not know who that person really is unless they hold that person long enough for DHS to check their record.

Los Angeles County Sheriff Leroy D. "Lee" Baca is also opposed to the bill, saying through a spokesman that he does not believe it will pass. 

"He believes that (Secure Communities) must do better and will do better, but this is not the right way to do that," Los Angeles County sheriff's spokesman Steve Whittmore told FoxNews.com. 

The Trust Act, which was already passed by the California state Assembly, awaits a vote by the state Senate.


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## RoadVirus (Jul 6, 2012)

Why not?! It's not like the state is facing serious financial disaster or anything! Only 2 cities in the state have filed for bankruptcy...no big loss eh?


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## Katzndogz (Jul 6, 2012)

To California the problem of illegal immigration is simple.  The state enjoys the deaths of people lile the Bologna family and Jamile Shaw.


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## HatInRing (Jul 6, 2012)

When every illegal migrates to California from other states that make it difficult for illegals I wonder how and if we will ever be able to get California back from mexico?


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## Ernie S. (Jul 6, 2012)

HatInRing said:


> When every illegal migrates to California from other states that make it difficult for illegals I wonder how and if we will ever be able to get California back from mexico?



Who wants it?. It's a beautiful state, except it has all them damned  Californians.


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## georgephillip (Jul 6, 2012)

"When every arrest is a potential immigration arrest, people in immigrant communities are afraid to report crimes or cooperate with investigations."

Maybe someone can explain why capital is free to cross borders and labor isn't?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/opinion/californias-trust-act.html


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## HatInRing (Jul 6, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> "When every arrest is a potential immigration arrest, people in immigrant communities are afraid to report crimes or cooperate with investigations."
> 
> Maybe someone can explain why capital is free to cross borders and labor isn't?
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/opinion/californias-trust-act.html



That's simple to figure out George. If the illegals were not here then police wouldn't have this problem of illegals not coming forward to report crimes against other illegal immigrants. 

As for capitalism crossing borders, that's simple also. Trade does not have anything to do with labor. Trade for products made in mexico to come to the U.S. and be sold are set up in trade agreements with the U.S. . Trade capitalism is for manufactured products to be sold and not people. 

Labor consists of people doing the work to produce the manufactured product for wages. Trade capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with labor. If you have a problem understanding this you may want to go talk to some black U.S. citizens that are decendants of people that were used for trade labor.

P.S. We also don't know who is coming into the U.S. and the overflow of people creates demand that hasn't been met causing consumer prices to to rise especially with public utilities and gasoline. (Illegals still drive without a license and very few compared to the illegal population in the U.S. get busted).


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## georgephillip (Jul 6, 2012)

HatInRing said:


> georgephillip said:
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*"Trade does not have anything to do with labor?*

If your definition of "trade" involves products that require land, labor and capital, why is capital given rights labor is not?

When trade agreements like NAFTA dump tons of US taxpayer subsidized corn on Mexican markets it puts millions of Mexican farmers out of work with few places to find a job except in the US.

BTW, rises in the prices of public utilities and gasoline have more to do with privatization of utilities (see Enron) and speculation in oil futures by the same Wall Street parasites who crashed the global economy in 2008 than with migrants taking minimum wage jobs in California.


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## HatInRing (Jul 6, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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WHAT! After reading you post George I'm really thinking that the education level in the U.S. has fallen, very heavily in the areas of business and politics.

I agree with you about NAFTA but I don't like NAFTA for different reasons. My dislike of NAFTA is due to it's an open door for U.S. businesses to outsource jobs to foreign countries and send the manufactured products back to the U.S. without import taxes and tariffs. The outsourcing of jobs means less money in the pockets of U.S. citizens and less job opportunities.

As for rises in prices, no, rises in prices is not due to privatization. Rises in prices are due to demand and greedy businessmen jacking up prices to increase their profit margins and stuff money into their own pockets when demand is through the roof due to massive immigration. When demand goes up corporations can charge whatever they please. Public utility costs are up due to demand and the enviromentalists not letting new resources be built to meet the demand the illegals are putting on the U.S. economy.

Please George, don't lay that communist government can run things better and bring down prices. The communism you are hinting at just doesn't get it.

The problem in the U.S. is democrats let in to many illegals and legal immigrants to profit off of and now there's millions upon millions of them here in the U.S. driving up demand and getting consumer loans on homes and cars.

When demand goes up over supply prices sky rocket. When prices sky rocket people stop spending money and the economy collaspes. Communism won't correct this, communism will just keep people broke because the government will take all the money.


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## jamesalbert (Jul 7, 2012)

Hello Friends
America has had a long-standing problem with workers who cross its borders illegally to find higher paying work than what is available in their home country.

Thanks


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## Angelhair (Jul 7, 2012)

_American could have stopped the illegal crossing many, many years ago.  Neither party is interested in doing that.  Case closed._


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## Katzndogz (Jul 7, 2012)

This merely formalizes that which has been an official policy for years.   The Bologna family was gunned down by an illegal.  Jamile Shaw was murdered by an illegal that had been released from jail less than 24 hour prior to this murder.   This is what California wants.  It's not labor because there is no need for labor.  The environmentalists ended the majority of California agriculture when it shut off the water to the central valley.


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## Ernie S. (Jul 7, 2012)

Will the Feds challenge this crap too?


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## Moonglow (Jul 7, 2012)

electric companies are just govt. sanctioned monopolies.


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## daveman (Jul 7, 2012)

And California's circling of the bowl accelerates.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

HatInRing said:


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Can you provide a few examples of demand for goods or services going through the roof due to massive immigration?

*"Consumer Demand*

"Reverse migration of illegal immigrants from the US back to Mexico has reduced the overall population of the US.

"Economic activity produced by illegal immigrant spending employs about 5% of the total US workforce. Illegal immigrants occupy over 3 million dwellings, or just under 4% of the total number of homes in the US. 

"*UCLA research indicates immigrants produce $150 billion of economic activity* equivalent to spending stimulus every year."

Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greedy businessmen have played a big role in privatization, as Californians discovered the hard way:

"Drought, delays in approval of new power plants,[4] and market manipulation decreased supply. This caused *800% increase in wholesale prices* from April 2000 to December 2000.[5]"

California electricity crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Finally, any adverse economic effects from illegal immigration on the US economy are dwarfed by the trillion$ of dollar$ that have been looted from the middle class and redistributed into the off-shore bank accounts of FIRE sector parasites like Mitt Romney and their political enablers like Obama or Bush or Clinton.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

daveman said:


> And California's circling of the bowl accelerates.


Have you finished that #/=*!! car yet, D'Man?
Surely, (No, I didn't just call you...) you have found a garage?
The LA buses are circling that damn bowl a little faster than anything else around here.

Fortunately Ellen Brown has found the solution.
Unfortunately elected Republicans AND Democrats in California will send their own children to occupy Pakistan (or Mexico) before they'll listen to Ellen:

"Californias bill to study the feasibility of *establishing a state-owned bank* that would receive deposits of state funds, has passed both houses of the legislature and is now on the desk of Governor Jerry Brown awaiting his signature.

"It could be the governors chance to restore the state to its former glory. As noted in Time Magazine:

    "_n the 1950s and 60s, California was a liberal showcase. Governors Earl Warren and Pat Brown responded to the population growth of the postwar boom with a massive program of public infrastructure*the nations finest public college system,* the freeway system and the state aqueduct that carries water from the well-watered north to the parched south.

"But that was before Proposition 13..."

CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE PASSES BILL TO STUDY STATE-OWNED BANK « WEB OF DEBT BLOG_


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## Katzndogz (Jul 7, 2012)

California started out with a basic premise.  Illegals contribute more and are worth more than Americans, so the state would be vastly improved if there were more illegals and fewer Americans.   In the 70s Then Governor Brown said the main problem with the state was that too many people were working.   More people needed to be shifted into welfare to improve the economy.  He hasn't changed a bit.


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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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 Please answer the above questions highlighted in red for me...Thanks


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## MaryL (Jul 7, 2012)

California was a great place for simple Americans of all races and incomes and cultures. Average folks. That was 35 years ago. But nowadays, California is a place run by rich straight anglo ideologues. It's where  their ideal of tolerance and diversity means exploiting poor hispanics. These rich whites have their slave class, their lackeys, hispanics of questionable status. Why would they want to upset the apple cart? I think the wealthy run California, it seems they may have all along....Now it seems middle or lower-class folks of all ilk haven't a place in the state.  Nobody else has a place in their trance world of magic realism. The narcissist rich run the land of narcissist  Hispanic immigrants  and narcissist homosexuals,  normal folks can't afford to live there anymore.  Not to mention the record deficit Cali has run up, they can't even live within their own means. They live in a dream world.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

beagle9 said:


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*I don't think it's a precise science...*

"This report provides estimates of the size of the unauthorized immigrant population residing in the United States as of January 2010 by period of entry, region and country of origin, state of residence, age, and gender. 

"The estimates were obtained using the '*residual' methodology* employed for estimates of the unauthorized population in 2009 (see Hoefer, Rytina, and Baker, 2010). 

"The unauthorized resident population is the remainder or 'residual' after estimates of the legally resident foreign-born population&#8212;legal permanent residents (LPRs), naturalized citizens, asylees, refugees, and nonimmigrants&#8212;*are subtracted from estimates of the total foreign-born population*. 

"Data to estimate the legally resident population were obtained primarily from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) while the American Community Survey (ACS) of the U.S. Census Bureau was the source for estimates of the total foreign-born population."

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_ill_pe_2010.pdf


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 7, 2012)

> Debate over the bill comes after the nation's highest court last month upheld the most controversial provision of the Arizona immigration law -- requiring local police to check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally.



Incorrect. 

Local police may check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally only in the context of another lawful detention, not on suspicion of being illegal alone.  

So much for the accuracy of Fox News. 



Ernie S. said:


> Will the Feds challenge this crap too?



On what grounds? 

The proposed measure doesnt preempt Federal law, nor does it interfere with Federal enforcement of immigration law. Indeed, Federal officials may not compel state officers or law enforcement to enforce Federal regulatory policy. See:_ Printz v. United States_ (1997). 

In fact, the measure is a declaration of states rights. 

Telling the hypocrisy of conservatives.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

MaryL said:


> California was a great place for simple Americans of all races and incomes and cultures. Average folks. That was 35 years ago. But nowadays, California is a place run by rich straight anglo ideologues. It's where  their ideal of tolerance and diversity means exploiting poor hispanics. These rich whites have their slave class, their lackeys, hispanics of questionable status. Why would they want to upset the apple cart? I think the wealthy run California, it seems they may have all along....Now it seems middle or lower-class folks of all ilk haven't a place in the state.  Nobody else has a place in their trance world of magic realism. The narcissist rich run the land of narcissist  Hispanic immigrants  and narcissist homosexuals,  normal folks can't afford to live there anymore.  Not to mention the record deficit Cali has run up, they can't even live within their own means. They live in a dream world.


*34 years to be precise:*

"But that was before Proposition 13, a California constitutional amendment enacted by voter initiative in 1978. Prop 13 limited real property taxes to one percent of the full cash value of the property and required a two-thirds majority in both legislative houses for future increases of any state tax rates.

"Prop 13 radically reduced the tax base, and it would be difficult to raise property taxes now. *The tax savings simply drove property prices up*, getting capitalized into additional debt service to the banks. 

"Today, a rise in property taxes would lead to even more foreclosures and abandonments, reducing tax revenues even more.

"Meanwhile, the state is struggling to meet its budget with a vastly shrunken tax base. What it needs is a new source of revenue, something that won&#8217;t squeeze consumers, homeowners, or local business."

CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE PASSES BILL TO STUDY STATE-OWNED BANK « WEB OF DEBT BLOG

California is victimized by the same private creation of money at interest Ponzi scheme that is slowly strangling the EU and the rest of this planet. Bankers don't care who gets elected as long as they control the money supply.

One obvious solution is for California to begin _doing business as_ The State Bank of California.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> California started out with a basic premise.  Illegals contribute more and are worth more than Americans, so the state would be vastly improved if there were more illegals and fewer Americans.   In the 70s Then Governor Brown said the main problem with the state was that too many people were working.   More people needed to be shifted into welfare to improve the economy.  He hasn't changed a bit.


The majority of "illegals" in California are Americans.
As I recall, "Moonbeam" made some fairly outrageous claims in the '70s, but I don't remember the one about too many Californians having jobs.
Link?

Who do you blame for the current state of California's economy, illegal immigrants or Wall Street?


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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Katzndogz said:
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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> The majority of "illegals" in California are Americans.



Huh ? How does illegal and American end up being one in the same ??


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

beagle9 said:


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Mexicans are Americans as are Salvadorians and other Central Americans, not to mention Canadians.
The US is just one nation in the Americas.


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## daveman (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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No garage, so no car.  


georgephillip said:


> The LA buses are circling that damn bowl a little faster than anything else around here.
> 
> Fortunately Ellen Brown has found the solution.
> Unfortunately elected Republicans AND Democrats in California will send their own children to occupy Pakistan (or Mexico) before they'll listen to Ellen:
> ...


_
So, she wants CA to own a bank so they can store the money they don't have.  _


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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

Where does Mexico come up with this never ending wave up people challenging that border everyday like that anyways ? I mean are these people simply breeding like rabbits over there, and then depending on our hoped for lax borders and lax in enforcement the same, in order to accomodate the over population of these people they are creating, who undoubtedly have no thought what-so-ever about what is going to happen to their young when they are born into what must be a terrible oppressive economic situation in that nation. I know when I was to get my wife pregnant as an American, I thought of many things before knowing and planning the size of my family, in which I did seek to know as a result of. 

I mean I wouldnot have had my wife bare 10 children in a modern day society that only indicates for 4 to 5 kids at the max in an economic and very much different structure in which we have in America these days. To just close my eyes and just breed breed breed is irresponsible and wrecklace, as well as unloving and uncaring of the children who are yet to be born in such an irresponsible way from which to think. 

The fall of morals and responsibility in America, has created all that we see now, where as it is even catching here in the U.S. with the latest new American teen groups having babies out of wedlock or very loosely now, and not caring either about what will become of the lives of these children once they become teens and/or adults down the lines, and this because they are teens who are still kids themselves trying to raise kids themselves (goverment dependency out of control). Sadly they have been influenced badly by another culture who was for years doing the same thing here (breeding like rabbits), where now we are seeing a cultual shift that includes those who were not doing this sort of thing in the past, but are now doing it in epedemic fashion also. The stories are horrific and very sad to say the least by what we know about and are seeing within this shift, in which is going on here as enough of a problem being delt with now, much less what is coming at us over these borders daily. 

Sheesh!


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

beagle9 said:


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## MaryL (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> MaryL said:
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> > California was a great place for simple Americans of all races and incomes and cultures. Average folks. That was 35 years ago. But nowadays, California is a place run by rich straight anglo ideologues. It's where  their ideal of tolerance and diversity means exploiting poor hispanics. These rich whites have their slave class, their lackeys, hispanics of questionable status. Why would they want to upset the apple cart? I think the wealthy run California, it seems they may have all along....Now it seems middle or lower-class folks of all ilk haven't a place in the state.  Nobody else has a place in their trance world of magic realism. The narcissist rich run the land of narcissist  Hispanic immigrants  and narcissist homosexuals,  normal folks can't afford to live there anymore.  Not to mention the record deficit Cali has run up, they can't even live within their own means. They live in a dream world.
> ...



That may be true. I agree with this weird ponzi/pyramid scheme I have seen were many states have been raked over the coals for the benefit of the wealthy. But the fact is, from my point of view, illegal aliens ONLY benefit the rich that can afford to live far from the negative influence of illegals. This county seems more interested in popular causes that common sense. Illegal aliens are of little merit or concern to middle class or poor Americans. They don't deserve all this attention they get heaped upon them unless the elitist wealthy rich seem to  feel it is deserved. My brother and his spouse lost their home of 25 years. A Hispanic gal practically kicked them out. He worked all his life to buy that house. She didn't give a flying crap. How she got to this point, I don't care anymore. I see just how insensitive Hispanics or the wealthy are, and it makes me ill. Middle class Americans aren't welcome in California anymore, but illegal  aliens that are hispanics ARE. That is how it seems.


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 7, 2012)

HatInRing said:


> *California bill could create sanctuary state for non-felon illegal immigrants*
> 
> *By Cristina Corbin
> Published July 05, 2012
> ...




It's Bull Shit and it is no good for the USA.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

daveman said:


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_
Are you saying I'm stuck with buses and subways for the duration?
OK...fine.

As to Ellen's prescription for California's financial woes, i think the plan is to keep billion$ in state revenues within California instead of shipping them off to Wall Street where they're often used to speculate against the best interests of Californians.

2% mortgages?
Credit cards capped at 6%?

*"California is the eighth largest economy* in the world, and it has a debt burden to match. 

"It has outstanding general obligation bonds and revenue bonds of $158 billion, largely incurred for infrastructure. Of this tab, $70 billion is just for interest. Over $7 billion of California&#8217;s annual budget goes to pay interest on the state&#8217;s debt.

"*As large as California&#8217;s liabilities are, they are exceeded by its assets*, which are sufficient to capitalize a bank rivaling any in the world. That&#8217;s the idea behind Assembly Bill 750, introduced by Assemblyman Ben Hueso of San Diego, which would establish a blue ribbon task force to consider the viability of creating the *California Investment Trust, a state bank* receiving deposits of state funds. 

"Instead of relying on Wall Street banks for credit &#8211; or allowing a Wall Street bank to enjoy the benefits of lending its capital &#8211; *California may decide to create its own, publicly-owned bank*."

WHAT A PUBLIC BANK COULD MEAN FOR CALIFORNIA « WEB OF DEBT BLOG_


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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

MaryL said:


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There are plenty of mixed and/or diverse white black you name it Americans in this nation, who will do the bidding for the rich as well, so I wouldn't stroke that broad brush across the Hispanics in one stroke if ya know what I mean ?


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Where does Mexico come up with this never ending wave up people challenging that border everyday like that anyways ? I mean are these people simply breeding like rabbits over there, and then depending on our hoped for lax borders and lax in enforcement the same, in order to accomodate the over population of these people they are creating, who undoubtedly have no thought what-so-ever about what is going to happen to their young when they are born into what must be a terrible oppressive economic situation in that nation. I know when I was to get my wife pregnant as an American, I thought of many things before knowing and planning the size of my family, in which I did seek to know as a result of.
> 
> I mean I wouldnot have had my wife bare 10 children in a modern day society that only indicates for 4 to 5 kids at the max in an economic and very much different structure in which we have in America these days. To just close my eyes and just breed breed breed is irresponsible and wrecklace, as well as unloving and uncaring of the children who are yet to be born in such an irresponsible way from which to think.
> 
> ...


"*(Mexcian) Birth rate: 19.13 births/1,000 population (2011 est.)*

"Definition: This entry gives the average annual number of births during a year per 1,000 persons in the population at midyear; also known as crude birth rate. The birth rate is usually the dominant factor in determining the rate of population growth. It depends on both the level of fertility and the age structure of the population.

"Source: CIA World Factbook - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of January 9, 2012."

Mexico Birth rate - Demographics

Mexico comes in at # 101 of all nations just three notches below Israel's 19.24 births per 1000.
The USA is at # 149 with 13.83 births per 1000.
Niger is #1 with 50.54 births per 1000

Birth rate - Country Comparison


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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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_
Sounds like a good idea to me once explained, but what do I know....Good luck in any cutting ties with the ones who weren't working in the best interest of Californians and their well being._


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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> beagle9 said:
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> > Where does Mexico come up with this never ending wave up people challenging that border everyday like that anyways ? I mean are these people simply breeding like rabbits over there, and then depending on our hoped for lax borders and lax in enforcement the same, in order to accomodate the over population of these people they are creating, who undoubtedly have no thought what-so-ever about what is going to happen to their young when they are born into what must be a terrible oppressive economic situation in that nation. I know when I was to get my wife pregnant as an American, I thought of many things before knowing and planning the size of my family, in which I did seek to know as a result of.
> ...


See, we are always looking at these numbers, but the story on the ground tells alot different story. It still doesn't answer the question about where in the world is all these mexicans coming from?  It's as if towns not families are falling by the hundreds in that nation, leaving thousands with no where to go but to the U.S. border.

Like I said, everything is explained now in numbers, but the story on the ground in many cases is telling a whole different tale.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

MaryL said:


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"The ForeclosureGate scandal poses a threat to Wall Street, the big banks, and the political establishment. If the public ever gets a complete picture of the personal, financial, and legal assault on citizens at their most vulnerable, the outrage will be endless."

We are all living through the greatest transfer of wealth in history.
From those who produce wealth to those who extract wealth.
I don't think it can be changed by "choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in the voting booth.

As long as we remain divided over important but non-existential issues like abortion, immigration, and gay marriage, the rich will continue to plunder the poor and middle class while bribing politicians from both major parties to continue their assault on our civil rights.

Some of the rich can not stop stealing for the same reason sharks can't stop swimming.
They will die, and they know it.

Beyond Foreclosuregate - It Gets Uglier


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## beagle9 (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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The Holy Bible-King James version, has a very good chapter and verse on the subject in which you describe here, it is found in ((James-Chapter 5  verses 1-9)) ...

Read this, I think you will be impressed...


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## HatInRing (Jul 7, 2012)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > Debate over the bill comes after the nation's highest court last month upheld the most controversial provision of the Arizona immigration law -- requiring local police to check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally.
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The federal government can indeed withhold federal monitary payouts to any city or state that doesn't comply with what the federal government wants.


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

beagle9 said:


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*It's been working pretty well in North Dakota since 1919:*

"A number of other mineral-rich states were initially not affected by the economic downturn, but they lost revenues with the later decline in oil prices. *North Dakota is the only state to be in continuous budget surplus since the banking crisis of 2008*. 

"Its balance sheet is so strong that *it recently reduced individual income taxes and property taxes* by a combined $400 million, and is debating further cuts. 

"It also has the lowest foreclosure rate and lowest credit card default rate in the country, and it has had NO bank failures in at least the last decade.

"If its secret isn&#8217;t oil, what is so unique about the state? *North Dakota has one thing that no other state has: its own state-owned bank*.

"*Access to credit is the enabling factor* that has fostered both a boom in oil and record profits from agriculture in North Dakota. The Bank of North Dakota (BND) does not compete with local banks but partners with them, helping with capital and liquidity requirements..."

NORTH DAKOTA


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## HatInRing (Jul 7, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> georgephillip said:
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> 
> > The majority of "illegals" in California are Americans.
> ...



An illegal alien, liberal hippy or a democrat that needs easy to get rid of cheap labor put the two in the same sentence thinking he/she is smarter than you and you will beleive it.

I used the term "Cheap labor" in reference to illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are not cheap anymore. They are just easy to fire now since employers don't have to comply with government employment laws with illegals. They can be fired on the spot and they are controlled like slaves under the threat of getting deported.


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## daveman (Jul 7, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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_
I don't recall agreeing to build a car for you.


georgephillip said:



			As to Ellen's prescription for California's financial woes, i think the plan is to keep billion$ in state revenues within California instead of shipping them off to Wall Street where they're often used to speculate against the best interests of Californians.

2% mortgages?
Credit cards capped at 6%?

*"California is the eighth largest economy* in the world, and it has a debt burden to match. 

"It has outstanding general obligation bonds and revenue bonds of $158 billion, largely incurred for infrastructure. Of this tab, $70 billion is just for interest. Over $7 billion of Californias annual budget goes to pay interest on the states debt.

"*As large as Californias liabilities are, they are exceeded by its assets*, which are sufficient to capitalize a bank rivaling any in the world. Thats the idea behind Assembly Bill 750, introduced by Assemblyman Ben Hueso of San Diego, which would establish a blue ribbon task force to consider the viability of creating the *California Investment Trust, a state bank* receiving deposits of state funds. 

"Instead of relying on Wall Street banks for credit  or allowing a Wall Street bank to enjoy the benefits of lending its capital  *California may decide to create its own, publicly-owned bank*."

WHAT A PUBLIC BANK COULD MEAN FOR CALIFORNIA « WEB OF DEBT BLOG

Click to expand...

How does she plan to end the flow of people's 401(k) money to Wall Street for investment? Is she going to confiscate it?

To the OWS crowd, if you've got a retirement account, guess what?  You're invested in the eeeevil KKKorporations through Wall Street!  You greedy bastards!_


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

HatInRing said:


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"The exchange of money and debt for prolonged and unfulfilling work choices traces back to the disintegration of hunter-gatherer gift economies and the origin of *prostitution as a 'fundamental feature of human civilization*'.[12] 

"Similarities between wage labor and slavery were noted in ancient Rome by Cicero,[13] while the pervasive practice of voluntary slavery in medieval Russia indicates the previous historical coexistence of slavery and voluntary choice.[14] 

"Before the American Civil War, Southern defenders of African American slavery invoked the concept of wage slavery to favorably compare the condition of their slaves to workers in the North.[15][16] 

"With the advent of the industrial revolution, thinkers such as Proudhon and Marx elaborated the comparison between wage labor and slavery in the context of a critique of societal property not intended for active personal use..."

Wage slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the Industrial Revolutions first talking points was how, eventually, the machine would free humanity from the need to toil for its daily bread. Maybe those who own the means of production forgot to tell the rest of us?


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## georgephillip (Jul 7, 2012)

daveman said:


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I'm glad to see you haven't mellowed any.
Keep up the good work.

As far as Ellen's concerned why would she need to confiscate people's 401ks?

"*California has 37 million people*. 

"If the California Investment Trust (CIT) performed like the BND (Bank of North Dakota), it might amass $148 billion in deposits. With $12 billion in capital, this $148 billion could generate $133 billion in credit for the state (subtracting 10%, or 14.8 billion, to satisfy reserve requirements).

"There are various ways the state could come up with the capital, but one possibility that would not require new taxes or debt would be to simply draw on the treasurer&#8217;s existing pooled money investment account, which currently contains $65 billion in accumulated revenues dispersed to a variety of funds. 

"This money is already invested; a portion could just be shifted to the CIT. 

"Since it would be an investment in equity rather than an expenditure, it would not cost the state money.

"Rather, it would make money for the state. 

"In recent years, the Bank of North Dakota has had a return on equity of 25-26%. Compare the 25-30% lost in the two years following the 2008 banking crisis by CalPERS, the California Public Employees&#8217; Retirement System, *which invested its money on Wall Street*."

To the brain-dead conservative crowd... you really don't have to bend over every time Wall Street snaps its fingers.

http://webofdebt.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/what-a-public-bank-could-mean-for-california/


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## daveman (Jul 7, 2012)

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Yeah, you didn't really answer my question.

How does she plan to end the flow of people's 401(k) money to Wall Street for investment? Is she going to confiscate it?  Not all employees in CA are public employees.  The state government has no control over private citizens' retirement accounts, no matter how much they'd like to.


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## HatInRing (Jul 8, 2012)

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> daveman said:
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> > And California's circling of the bowl accelerates.
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I can't wait to see if the old Brown man will sign California into double dip bankruptcy. The federal government isn't allowed to make a profit (even though they do sometimes) they are only allowed to tax which means they put their hand out and you empty your pockets. California opening it's own bank means the bank funds will be invested and California will earn huge profits. Eventually if they don't start right away they will start accepting private funds and we will be on our way to communism. This is exactly what Obama and his liberal pirates want to do. Toss the constitution and install communism.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

daveman said:


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Private citizens who choose to continue investing with Wall Street will still have that option. Taxes and fees collected by the State of California won't. Hopefully, millions of Californians will take advantage of real competition and choose state banking services and products like 2% mortgages and credit cards capped at 6%.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

HatInRing said:


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Eventually you will have to learn the difference between communism and competition.

North Dakota learned that distinction almost a hundred years ago.
How does their economy today compare with California's?
Let's ask a professor at one of the most conservative university law schools in the state...

"Timothy Canova is Professor of International Economic Law at Chapman University School of Law in Orange, California. In a June 2011 paper called 'The Public Option: The Case for Parallel Public Banking Institutions,' he compares North Dakota&#8217;s financial situation to California&#8217;s. He writes of North Dakota and its state-owned bank:

    "'The state deposits its tax revenues in the Bank, which in turn ensures that a high portion of state funds are invested in the state economy. In addition, the Bank is able to remit a portion of its earnings back to the state treasury . . . . Thanks in part to these institutional arrangements, North Dakota is the only state that has been in continuous budget surplus since before the financial crisis and it has the lowest unemployment rate in the country.

"*He then compares the dire situation in California:*

       "*In contrast, California is the largest state economy in the nation*, yet without a state-owned bank, is unable to steer hundreds of billions of dollars in state revenues into productive investment within the state. 

"Instead, California deposits its many billions in tax revenues in large private banks which often lend the funds out-of-state, invest them in speculative trading strategies (including derivative bets against the state&#8217;s own bonds), and do not remit any of their earnings back to the state treasury. 

"Meanwhile, California suffers from constrained private credit conditions, high unemployment levels well above the national average, and the stagnation of state and local tax receipts. 

"The state&#8217;s only response has been to stumble from one budget crisis to another for the past three years, with each round of spending cuts further weakening its economy, tax base, and credit rating."

NORTH DAKOTA

Surely you've noticed how private bankers constantly require bail-outs by the taxpayers?
Why not jail the banksters and own the banks?
Only devout slaves would allow private control of their money supply, right?


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## daveman (Jul 8, 2012)

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You know there's no way in hell it's going to work, right?


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## Katzndogz (Jul 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Katzndogz said:
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> 
> > California started out with a basic premise.  Illegals contribute more and are worth more than Americans, so the state would be vastly improved if there were more illegals and fewer Americans.   In the 70s Then Governor Brown said the main problem with the state was that too many people were working.   More people needed to be shifted into welfare to improve the economy.  He hasn't changed a bit.
> ...



Here you go.

Jerry Brown Flashback: 'We Need More Welfare and Fewer Jobs' - Archive - Fox Nation

The solution to California's prosperity is more welfare and fewer jobs.

I have lived in California since 1959, yes I absolutely blame the illegals for California's economy.   Not only the illegals but democrats who have done everything they could to destroy the state.   For instance, I have seen how illegals can destroy a city, first hand, in several cities.   They are not reponsible for the destruction of agriculture in the Central Valley, that was democrat environmentalism.  The illegals aren't responsible for the mangled regulation system that has been driving business out of the state, that's democrats.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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*From your link:*

"*Jobs for every American is doomed to failure because of modern automation and production.* 

"We ought to recognize it and create an income-maintenance system so every single American has the dignity and the wherewithal for *shelter, basic food, and medical care*. I&#8217;m talking about welfare for all. *Without it, you&#8217;re going to have warfare for all*. 

"Without a universal health care like every other civilized country, without a minimum level of income, this country will explode. You can&#8217;t blame the guy at the bottom forever. At some point there&#8217;s a reaction and we&#8217;ll see that the *real criminals are those calling the tune, making the rules, and walking to the bank*

Jerry Brown Flashback: 'We Need More Welfare and Fewer Jobs' - Archive - Fox Nation

What's your choice welfare or warfare?

Who gave us the greatest economic collapse since the Great Depression?
It wasn't the immigrants.
It was rich parasites on Wall Street who continue their pillage to this minute.

It sounds like you're uncomfortable living among non-white people.
Maybe you should move?


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

daveman said:


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You know it's been working in North Dakota for nearly a century, right?

"According to new data released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics today, North Dakota had an unemployment rate of just 3.3 percent in July(2011)&#8212;that&#8217;s just over a third of the national rate (9.1 percent), and about a quarter of the rate of the state with the highest joblessness (Nevada, at 12.9 percent).

"North Dakota has had the lowest unemployment in the country (or was tied for the lowest unemployment rate in the country) every single month since July 2008.

"Its healthy job market is also reflected in its payroll growth numbers. . . . [Y]ear over year, its payrolls grew by 5.2 percent. Texas came in second, with an increase of 2.6 percent."

NORTH DAKOTA


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## Katzndogz (Jul 8, 2012)

North Dakota is having an oil boom because of the drilling going on in private property.

You are talking to the wrong person, George.  I believe that those who choose not to take care of themselves should die in the streets and people who do work gather up the bodies for a landfill.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> North Dakota is having an oil boom because of the drilling going on in private property.
> 
> You are talking to the wrong person, George.  I believe that those who choose not to take care of themselves should die in the streets and people who do work gather up the bodies for a landfill.


*"Oil is certainly a factor*, but it is not what has put North Dakota over the top. 

"Alaska has roughly the same population as North Dakota and produces nearly twice as much oil, yet unemployment in Alaska is running at 7.7 percent. 

"Montana, South Dakota, and Wyoming have all benefited from a boom in energy prices, with Montana and Wyoming extracting much more gas than North Dakota has. 

"The Bakken oil field stretches across Montana as well as North Dakota, with the greatest Bakken oil production coming from Elm Coulee Oil Field in Montana. Yet Montana&#8217;s unemployment rate, like Alaska&#8217;s, is 7.7% percent."

NORTH DAKOTA

What do you propose for the rich parasites who crashed the global economy in 2008?
Sainthood?


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## Katzndogz (Jul 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Katzndogz said:
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The Community Reinvestment Act crashed the economy and every person who voted to force lenders lend money to those known not to pay their bills should be strung up in the public square.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> I believe that those who choose not to take care of themselves should die in the streets and people who do work gather up the bodies for a landfill.





That's just fucking stupid. You don't believe that, you are just overly excited and lack self control. Go do some finger painting or something and calm down.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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So legislation passed in the 1970s and updated in 1995 crashed the economy in 2008?
How do you explain the fact that most lenders of failed mortgages were not subject to the CRA?

"Yet no bank has ever been 'forced to comply with government mandates about mortgage lending.'

"There are no 'government mandates,' and there never were. 

"In order to qualify for government-backed deposit insurance&#8212;a benefit that banks aren&#8217;t forced to accept but enjoy having&#8212;the Community Reinvestment Act and similar measures designed to prevent discrimination in lending (*to qualified individuals*) only encourage banks to lend in all of the areas where they do business. 

"*And Section 802 (b) of the Act stresses that all loans must be 'consistent with safe and sound operations'*&#8212;it&#8217;s the opposite of requiring that lenders write risky mortgages."

Conservatives Push Absurd Lie that Wall Street Hustlers Were Innocent Victims ... of Poor People | | AlterNet


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## HatInRing (Jul 8, 2012)

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The 2008 crash was caused by banks giving home loans to illegal aliens. Yes the illegals were given the home loans after Bill Clinton and Barney Frank lowered the requirements for U.S. citizens to get home loans. The President Bush work place raids from 2006 to 2009 kicked off the economic collaspe by deporting thousands of illegals with great paying jobs that had "Home Loans".


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## daveman (Jul 8, 2012)

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Yeah.  What's CA gonna do?  Raise the interest rates, because they desperately need more money.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 8, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Katzndogz said:
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> > I believe that those who choose not to take care of themselves should die in the streets and people who do work gather up the bodies for a landfill.
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Why would I expect you to tell me what I do or do not believe?  Cite your athority on what I believe or do not believe.   Provide a link.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 8, 2012)

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Texas has no state income tax.   Companies have been leaving CA and running to Texas.

If CA got rid of its income tax we'd have a boom too.   Just stop providing benefits to illegals.


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## beagle9 (Jul 8, 2012)

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Don't forget wall street who made a killing along with every other rich crook in the nation, while knowing that it all was a failure to come back to haunt real soon, but hey they didn't care, because they have taken refuge behind the cliques and or gated communities with their spoils, in which they had set up for themselves as a final result of it all. The middle class workforce (labor), and new young adults who need to enter the workforce quickly are the ones who are paying the ultimate price for this boondoggle, otherwise as we speak loudly across this nation yet our voices are falling on deaf ears still yet as a result of..


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you just got overly excited and that you are not really the inhuman pile of filth you would need to be in order to truly believe what you said. I believe you are very, very, very stupid, but not that monumentally immoral. I hope for your sake that I'm right. If not, you need to remove yourself from society at once.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

HatInRing said:


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Space aliens convinced the FBI of an "epidemic of mortgage fraud beginning in 2004" just after Dick the Draft Dodger started working Haliburton's "Dark Side" while Barney and Bill drove the getaway car after Dubya collapsed with grief over the death of Ken Lay. Ever notice how the richest 1% "win" regardless of the fictions being spun?


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

daveman said:


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*We don't need more money.
We need less Wall Street.*

"*Banks create 'bank credit' from capital and deposits*, as explained here. Under existing capital requirements, $8 in capital can be leveraged into $100 in loans, drawing on the liquidity provided by the deposits to clear the outgoing checks. 

"Assuming a 10% reserve requirement (the amount in deposits normally held in reserve), $8 in capital and $100 in deposits are sufficient to create $90 in loans ($100 less $10 held back for reserves).

"In North Dakota (population 647,000), the Bank of North Dakota has $2.7 billion in deposits, or $4000 per capita. The majority of these deposits are drawn from the states own revenues. The bank has nearly the same sum ($2.6 billion) in outstanding loans.

"California has 37 million people. If the California Investment Trust (CIT) performed like the BND, it might amass *$148 billion in deposits. With $12 billion in capital*, this $148 billion could generate *$133 billion in credit for the state* (subtracting 10%, or 14.8 billion, to satisfy reserve requirements)."

WHAT A PUBLIC BANK COULD MEAN FOR CALIFORNIA « WEB OF DEBT BLOG


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

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If California got rid of Wall Street by _doing business as_ The State Bank of California, we could (potentially) incorporate Baja California into our polity and thrive beyond many of our wildest dreams.

The rich are the problem.
Public banking is where the solution begins.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

beagle9 said:


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*Looking ahead, if you believe we are perched on an economic volcano...*

"(3)  How big an eruption might we get?

"In a May 2012 presentation Raoul Pal, publisher of Global Macro Investor, *describes aspects of the volcano*.

    "*The world has no engine of growth,* with most of the G20 countries approaching stall speed at the same time.
    "For the first time since the 1930&#8217;s we are entering a recession before Industrial Production, Durable Goods Orders, Employment and Private Sector Employment and Private Sector GDP have made back their Previous highs.
    "These are the weakest ever-foundations on which to enter a recession.
    "There are almost no brakes in the system to stop this, *and almost no one realizes the seriousness of the situation.*

"The first three points have been frequently noted on the FM website and elsewhere. After a crash and four years of slow and uneven recovery, much of the world is weak &#8212; with exhausted reserves, of both money and will.  

"Another downturn will hit us hard.  *Key institutions might break*, as in 2008-09, sparking a spiral decline."

If the US and global economy is in the same place next November as it was in 2008, where will you turn for "Hope" and "Change"?

EconoMonitor : EconoMonitor » The Global Economy Is Sitting on a Volcano. What Happens Next?


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

The lefties do love them some good ol' class warfare... 


I think georgie there has been pleasuring himself with his blow up Marx doll too much lately.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> The lefties do love them some good ol' class warfare...
> 
> 
> I think georgie there has been pleasuring himself with his blow up Marx doll too much lately.


Are you confused about governments role in determining who wins class war?

"If you plead with a court-appointed bailiff who is about to foreclose a debt-burdened family&#8217;s house, 'please, have mercy, don&#8217;t you see this poor family is going to be homeless?' his/her answer would most probably be 'I already know that; I am sorry, but I have no choice, or that&#8217;s not my problem.' 

"The difference between this type of traditional or ordinary bailiffs and today&#8217;s governments serving as bailiffs to collect the *fraudulent claims of the international financial moguls* is that while the former honestly admit that they have no choice because they have orders, the latter pretend that they are *independent of special interests*, and that they are simply carrying out policies of national interests!"

*All governments defend the interests of their richest citizens first.*

Not Bad Policy, But Class Policy » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > The lefties do love them some good ol' class warfare...
> ...





There is no such war, no matter how badly you wannabe Marxists want one.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

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You might want to stay out of Modesto if you really believe there's no class war in the USA.

"This past Thursday, a Modesto, California, man whose house was in foreclosure shot and killed the Sheriff&#8217;s deputy and the locksmith who came to evict him from his condominium unit. Modesto authorities responded by sending 100 police and SWAT snipers to counter-attack, and it ended Waco-style, with the fourplex structure burning to the ground with the shooter inside."

Class Warfare On Two Fronts: From Afghanistan To Middle America, The Untold Story Of Sgt. Bales - By Mark Ames - The eXiled


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## HatInRing (Jul 8, 2012)

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Your an illegal alien Ucktaco, you need to remove yourself from the U.S.


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## beagle9 (Jul 8, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Sorry but class warfare has been around forever and a day now... The pendelum just swings one way or the other all depending upon the political state of which we are in at any given time on any given day.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

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That is not "class warfare" idiot, that is a criminal act. Lots of people have been evicted from nice, big houses in recent years too, you wannabe Marxist douche. Placing your political fantasies so far above the good of (or an understanding of) the nation makes you down right unamerican.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

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Not in this country.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

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I told you before, learn English or get out of my country, headcase.


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## beagle9 (Jul 8, 2012)

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Huh?

I have to differ with you on this one, because unless you have been affected by it, it really is hard to detect or know it, but once you get a good taste of it, you'll never forget it, and it will be easily recognized from then on. You corrected the other poster about what he thought was class warfare, and you said that it was criminal activity instead, but was it born out of class warfare ? Hard to say unless know all the details or the complete story.


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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*Pull your head out of Karl Rove's ass before it's too late.*

"ForeclosureGate represents the sum total illegal and unethical lending and collections activities during the real estate bubble. *It continues today*. 

"Law professor and law school dean Christopher L. Peterson describes the contractual language for the sixty million contracts between borrowers and lenders as fictional since the boilerplate language names a universal surrogate as creditor (Mortgage Electronic Registration System), not the actual creditor. 

"Other aspects of ForeclosureGate harmed homeowners but the contractual problems that the lenders created on their own pose the greatest threats.

What would the rich do without useful slaves like you?

Beyond Foreclosuregate - It Gets Uglier


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

beagle9 said:


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There are no 'classes' in this country of the sort that would make 'class warfare' possible. People in this country are not born into 'classes.' They may be born into a variety of circumstances but there is no social/legal recognition of a hereditary status from which one cannot move. No one is born rich who cannot by his poor choices become poor, and no one is born poor who cannot by his talent, drive, and luck become rich.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> You corrected the other poster about what he thought was class warfare, and you said that it was criminal activity instead, but was it born out of class warfare ? Hard to say unless know all the details or the complete story.




It was obviously born out of someone taking the opportunity they have in this country and signing a mortgage he could not meet. His response to the unfortunate consequences of his own choices was to commit a criminal act.


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## HatInRing (Jul 8, 2012)

This is what will be coming to California even though it's already happening. Illegals having anchor babies is big time now but just wait until California becomes a santurary state.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

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Did you just pull that name at random from your list of boogeymen?


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## georgephillip (Jul 8, 2012)

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So how did ol' Sam Waltons heirs amass more wealth than the bottom 30% (~100,000,000) of US citizens? How about the richest 400 parasites in the US-did they work real hard for all their money"

*"Income inequality in the U.S. is currently the highest its been since the 1920*s, with the 400 richest Americans (who are all billionaires) *having as much wealth as the bottom 50 percent of Americans combined.* 

"And as it turns out, just one wealthy family has managed to amass a fortune equal to that of the combined net worth of the bottom 30 percent of Americans &#8212; the Waltons, heirs to the Walmart fortune, as Sylvia Allegretto, a labor economist at the Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics, found..."

The Walmart Heirs Have The Same Net Worth As The Bottom 30 Percent Of Americans | ThinkProgress


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## daveman (Jul 8, 2012)

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As beagle's proving, the only people fighting the class war have no class.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

georgephillip said:


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> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...






Who ever said there are not rich people and poor people in this country? That does not amount to a "class," you idiot. You reveal your wannabe Marxist mindset when you oh-so-righteously assume that anyone who is rich is a "parasite" and doesn't work hard. You're like a cartoon-character lefty. Bitter resentment at those more succesful than yourself (in any of a number of ways) will not bring you satisfaction. Your Marxist fantasies will never come true and you'll just live out your days a sad, frustrated, resentful waste of human life. You don't have to, you know.


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## beagle9 (Jul 8, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


If a person or persons decide to put you in a class of their choosing, and this by taking away your ability to perform at your maximum level, then you have become a victim of classwarfare at this point, in which they have played out on you in an abusive way. At this point you may not be able to afford to do the things in which your mind had been afforded you to do, and this by your own smarts in life due to oppression that a person may have placed you under yet all depending, because of this they have taken your abilities away from you, and they have placed you into a box/class of their choosing. There is 5 classes in this nation known of, in which one can be placed in by someone or by even ones own choices in their life, and these are the poor class, the middle class, the semi-wealthy class, the wealthy class, and the super uber rich class. There are definetly ways in judging these seperated classes in this nation, and yes a person can place their ownselves within a class by their own choosing, but it is a fact that a person can be placed into a class (if only for a short or long period of time), by someone else who hath control over them in their life, and it is all depending on the circumstances or the damage caused by this placing, in which usually determins the amount of time a person stays in a rut and/or class or gets out of it all depending. This nation has a record of herding people as cattle or giving people opportunity or which ever it chooses to do within various situations, but there is such a thing as class warfare yes an deedy, and class envy in this nation also, and sadly it will always be that away until the Lord returns and straightens it all out finally.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> If a person or persons decide to put you in a class of their choosing, and this by taking away your ability to perform at your maximum level, then you have become a victim of classwarfare at this point, in which they have played out on you in an abusive way. At this point you may not be able to afford to do the things in which your mind had been afforded you to do, and this by your own smarts in life due to oppression that a person may have placed you under yet all depending, because of this they have taken your abilities away from you, and they have placed you into a box/class of their choosing. There is 5 classes in this nation known of, in which one can be placed in by someone or by even ones own choices in their life, and these are the poor class, the middle class, the semi-wealthy class, the wealthy class, and the super uber rich class. There are definetly ways in judging these seperated classes in this nation, and yes a person can place their ownselves within a class by their own choosing, but it is a fact that a person can be placed into a class (if only for a short or long period of time), by someone else who hath control over them in their life, and it is all depending on the circumstances or the damage caused by this placing, in which usually determins the amount of time a person stays in a rut and/or class or gets out of it all depending. This nation has a record of herding people as cattle or giving people opportunity or which ever it chooses to do within various situations, but there is such a thing as class warfare yes an deedy, and class envy in this nation also, and sadly it will always be that away until the Lord returns and straightens it all out finally.





What a load of horse shit. 


Provide an example of "If a person or persons decide to put you in a class of their choosing, and this by taking away your ability to perform at your maximum level, then you have become a victim of classwarfare."


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> If a person or persons decide to put you in a class of their choosing, and this by taking away your ability to perform at your maximum level, then you have become a victim of classwarfare at this point, in which they have played out on you in an abusive way. At this point you may not be able to afford to do the things in which your mind had been afforded you to do, and this by your own smarts in life due to oppression that a person may have placed you under yet all depending, because of this they have taken your abilities away from you, and they have placed you into a box/class of their choosing. There is 5 classes in this nation known of, in which one can be placed in by someone or by even ones own choices in their life, and these are the poor class, the middle class, the semi-wealthy class, the wealthy class, and the super uber rich class. There are definetly ways in judging these seperated classes in this nation, and yes a person can place their ownselves within a class by their own choosing, but it is a fact that a person can be placed into a class (if only for a short or long period of time), by someone else who hath control over them in their life, and it is all depending on the circumstances or the damage caused by this placing, in which usually determins the amount of time a person stays in a rut and/or class or gets out of it all depending. This nation has a record of herding people as cattle or giving people opportunity or which ever it chooses to do within various situations, but there is such a thing as class warfare yes an deedy, and class envy in this nation also, and sadly it will always be that away until the Lord returns and straightens it all out finally.




What a load of horse shit.

"At this point you may not be able to afford to do the things in which your mind had been afforded you to do" = you can't always get everything you want. That is NOT class warfare, that is you thinking like a child.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> If a person or persons decide to put you in a class of their choosing, and this by taking away your ability to perform at your maximum level, then you have become a victim of classwarfare at this point, in which they have played out on you in an abusive way. At this point you may not be able to afford to do the things in which your mind had been afforded you to do, and this by your own smarts in life due to oppression that a person may have placed you under yet all depending, because of this they have taken your abilities away from you, and they have placed you into a box/class of their choosing. There is 5 classes in this nation known of, in which one can be placed in by someone or by even ones own choices in their life, and these are the poor class, the middle class, the semi-wealthy class, the wealthy class, and the super uber rich class. There are definetly ways in judging these seperated classes in this nation, and yes a person can place their ownselves within a class by their own choosing, but it is a fact that a person can be placed into a class (if only for a short or long period of time), by someone else who hath control over them in their life, and it is all depending on the circumstances or the damage caused by this placing, in which usually determins the amount of time a person stays in a rut and/or class or gets out of it all depending. This nation has a record of herding people as cattle or giving people opportunity or which ever it chooses to do within various situations, but there is such a thing as class warfare yes an deedy, and class envy in this nation also, and sadly it will always be that away until the Lord returns and straightens it all out finally.




What a load of horse shit. You can imagine 5 classes or 50, but that doesn't make it anything other than your subjective hysteria.


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## Unkotare (Jul 8, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> If a person or persons decide to put you in a class of their choosing, and this by taking away your ability to perform at your maximum level, then you have become a victim of classwarfare at this point, in which they have played out on you in an abusive way. At this point you may not be able to afford to do the things in which your mind had been afforded you to do, and this by your own smarts in life due to oppression that a person may have placed you under yet all depending, because of this they have taken your abilities away from you, and they have placed you into a box/class of their choosing. There is 5 classes in this nation known of, in which one can be placed in by someone or by even ones own choices in their life, and these are the poor class, the middle class, the semi-wealthy class, the wealthy class, and the super uber rich class. There are definetly ways in judging these seperated classes in this nation, and yes a person can place their ownselves within a class by their own choosing, but it is a fact that a person can be placed into a class (if only for a short or long period of time), by someone else who hath control over them in their life, and it is all depending on the circumstances or the damage caused by this placing, in which usually determins the amount of time a person stays in a rut and/or class or gets out of it all depending. This nation has a record of herding people as cattle or giving people opportunity or which ever it chooses to do within various situations, but there is such a thing as class warfare yes an deedy, and class envy in this nation also, and sadly it will always be that away until the Lord returns and straightens it all out finally.




What a load of horse shit. You _need_ to believe in class so your own weakness of character can be excused by the term "class envy."


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## georgephillip (Jul 9, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


*"class* (countable and uncountable; plural classes)

    (countable) A group, collection, category or set *sharing characteristics or attributes*..."

"*A social grouping, based on job, wealth*, etc. In Britain, society is commonly split into three main classes; upper class, middle class and working class.
(uncountable) *The division of society into classes*.

    "Jane Austen's works deal with class in 18th-century England."

class - Wiktionary 

I'm well aware there are members of the 1% who work hard for their money.
How hard did the six Walton heirs work for theirs?
Do you think the richest 400 Americans worked as hard as the poorest 50% of US families?
Or did they bribe politicians for favorable tax and trade policies?

"In 2007 (the most recent SCF) the cumulative wealth of the Forbes 400 was *$1.54 trillion* or roughly the same amount of wealth held by the entire bottom fifty percent of American families..."

"According to the Congressional Budget Office, 'for the 1 percent of the population with the highest income, average real after-tax household income grew by *275 percent* between 1979 and 2007,' while it grew by just *18 percent* for the bottom 20 percent of the income scale. 

"In a given year, the richest ten percent of the country takes home about one quarter of total income. 

"But Congress still saw fit last year to give a tax break to the very richest families, who have collected fortunes that dwarf anything the rest of the country will ever see."

The Walmart Heirs Have The Same Net Worth As The Bottom 30 Percent Of Americans | ThinkProgress

Parasites share the attributes and characteristics of privatizing profit while socializing cost.
They have always been able to count on loyal conservative slaves to assist their plunder.
You are living proof today's conservatives are still chattel in the class war.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 9, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Of course stock brokers and traders knew it was a failure!  The minute the government concocted the scheme to induce lenders to bundle good loans with bad  as a way of softening the blow that being forced to make bad loans meant, you know that anyone who could was going to take advantage of it.  In some cases, like banks, HAD to take advantage of bundling because if they didn't, the government was going to put them out of business.  

It's for the poooooorrrrrrr!  The only real parasites are the poor.  They do nothing, they produce nothing, they have no ambition or incentive.  They have an outstretched hand and ever demand more for less.   No wonder the poor are so obese.  Their lives are dedictated to moving as little as possible.


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## Unkotare (Jul 9, 2012)

georgephillip said:


> You are living proof today's conservatives are still chattel in the class war.





Your little Marxist fantasies will never be anything more than that - and you should be thankful for it. There are no 'classes,' and you will remain as irrelevant as you are right now.


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## beagle9 (Jul 9, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > If a person or persons decide to put you in a class of their choosing, and this by taking away your ability to perform at your maximum level, then you have become a victim of classwarfare at this point, in which they have played out on you in an abusive way. At this point you may not be able to afford to do the things in which your mind had been afforded you to do, and this by your own smarts in life due to oppression that a person may have placed you under yet all depending, because of this they have taken your abilities away from you, and they have placed you into a box/class of their choosing. There is 5 classes in this nation known of, in which one can be placed in by someone or by even ones own choices in their life, and these are the poor class, the middle class, the semi-wealthy class, the wealthy class, and the super uber rich class. There are definetly ways in judging these seperated classes in this nation, and yes a person can place their ownselves within a class by their own choosing, but it is a fact that a person can be placed into a class (if only for a short or long period of time), by someone else who hath control over them in their life, and it is all depending on the circumstances or the damage caused by this placing, in which usually determins the amount of time a person stays in a rut and/or class or gets out of it all depending. This nation has a record of herding people as cattle or giving people opportunity or which ever it chooses to do within various situations, but there is such a thing as class warfare yes an deedy, and class envy in this nation also, and sadly it will always be that away until the Lord returns and straightens it all out finally.
> ...


For someone who says they don't believe in class, you sure know how to try and apply your attacks upon placing a person right into a class, and what so this class you just created for me, is being based upon my character now, as you have just attacked me with ? I guess I am of the weak character class now, is that what you just said to me and/or have placed me into ? Oh and do explain what you mean by me having class envy as a part of my character, I mean if there are no classes ? A bit of a slip there eh ?


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## georgephillip (Jul 9, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > You are living proof today's conservatives are still chattel in the class war.
> ...


Economic classes have existed since the time of the first prostitute.
Speaking of whores...

"Consider: in *1928 the richest 1 percent of Americans received 23.9 percent* of the nation's total income. 

"After that, the share going to the richest 1 percent steadily declined. 

New Deal reforms, followed by World War II, the GI Bill and the Great Society *expanded the circle of prosperity*. 

"*By the late 1970s the top 1 percent raked in only 8 to 9 percent of America's total annual income*. But after that, inequality began to widen again,and income reconcentrated at the top.

"*By 2007 the richest 1 percent were back to where they were in 1928&#8212;with 23.5 percent* of the total.

"Each of America's two biggest economic crashes occurred in the year immediately following these twin peaks&#8212;in 1929 and 2008."

We're in a Recession Because the Rich Are Raking in an Absurd Portion of the Wealth | | AlterNet

Just because you're too timid to see the effects of economic class on political equality doesn't mean the rich aren't playing you for an useful bitch.


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## HatInRing (Jul 9, 2012)

Ucktaco, "Class", hehehehehehehehehehehehe, this guys brain is burnt out. The only words it knowns are unsocialable words he calls everyone else but in reality are sentences and words that describe himself.


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## Unkotare (Jul 9, 2012)

Coming soon: The Headcase and the Marxist Wannabe. Mondays at 9pm on CBS. Don't miss it!


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## Angelhair (Jul 14, 2012)

_California is already a sanctuary state.  It has been since it became majority democratic and liberal.  Its borders have been opened for anybody who comes here and is welcomed with a welfare check upon crossing the state line.  Those coming from out of country, get a lot of perks also - they know it, everybody knows it.  The United States is already doomed as it is going the way of California.  If you don't believe it, look around you.  IT'S TOO LATE BABY, IT'S TOO LATE!_


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