# All Hell Is Breaking Out in Egypt.



## WillowTree (Jan 28, 2011)

I hope any Americans over there get the hell out.


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## Intense (Jan 28, 2011)

Reason does not alway's prevail. 



Overnight in Egypt, the government shut down the vast majority of Egypt's Internet service, only allowing a network used by the stock exchange and most banks to stay live. Text message services were shut down in an effort to disrupt protest organization and all cell phone service was ordered shut in select locations according to Vodafone, one of Egypt's two main cellphone companies. There were reports of hundreds of activists detained by the police. 

Our correspondent Kristen Chick made her way through billowing clouds of tear gas and thousands of protesters to a Cairo landline to phone in a report this morning on what she's seeing. She says the protesters, many of whom are participating in a demonstration for the first time, are calling for the downfall of the regime and refuse to be beaten back. You can read it here:

Egyptians flood the streets, defying police and calling for regime change

Reporters in Cairo said waves of baltageya, plain-clothes thugs allied with state security, were unleashed on the streets. CNN's Ben Wedeman reported on his twitter feed watching a car load of baseball bats being brought into the grounds of the government TV building (some people are still getting internet access via cellphones registered in foreign countries).

There were tens of thousands of protesters, at least, on the streets of Cairo and Alexandria, Egypt's second largest city. Al Jazeera reported that democracy figurehead and Nobel Prize winner Mohamed ElBaradei was detained by police, but Al Arabiya was reporting that he and supporters in Cairo were simply penned in by riot police near the mosque in Cairo where they had attended noon prayers.

Egypt shuts down Internet, rounds up opposition leaders as protests start - CSMonitor.com


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

The US Embassy needs to start evacuating the Americans out.


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## Intense (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> The US Embassy needs to start evacuating the Americans out.



Definitely nonessential personnel.


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## Defiant1 (Jan 28, 2011)

It sounds like they are asking for "change".

Hey maybe we can send them Obama.


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## draper (Jan 28, 2011)

Mubarrak going to make an announcement soon.  Exciting times................I just hope this does not pave the way for the Northern African states leadership to be replaced with whack job Islamic regimes.


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## WillowTree (Jan 28, 2011)

draper said:


> Mubarrak going to make an announcement soon.  Exciting times................I just hope this does not pave the way for the Northern African states leadership to be replaced with whack job Islamic regimes.



isn't Egypt in Northern Africa? Why yes,, methinks it is.


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## 52ndStreet (Jan 28, 2011)

My question is why is the United States supporting  this dictator Mubarak?. This is what happens
to dictators who want to hang on to power for 30 years. He should have stepped down a long time ago.
Do  these arab leaders know what term limits are.?
America should not support dictatorship governments.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

52ndStreet said:


> My question is why is the United States supporting  this dictator Mubarak?. This is what happens
> to dictators who want to hang on to power for 30 years. He should have stepped down a long time ago.
> Do  these arab leaders know what term limits are.?
> America should not support dictatorship governments.



The US supported Mubarak because he kept the peace with Israel, they offered money and he took it.


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## Sallow (Jan 28, 2011)

This is EXACTLY what happens when there is huge economic disparity.


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## Sallow (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> 52ndStreet said:
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> > My question is why is the United States supporting  this dictator Mubarak?. This is what happens
> ...



More and more..you show how really damned smart you are with these posts.

 Grats!


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## WillowTree (Jan 28, 2011)

52ndStreet said:


> My question is why is the United States supporting  this dictator Mubarak?. This is what happens
> to dictators who want to hang on to power for 30 years. He should have stepped down a long time ago.
> Do  these arab leaders know what term limits are.?
> America should not support dictatorship governments.



Says the dumb dude who was all for the steak state dinner and the big red chinese dress in the wh last week.. wwwweeee weeee weeee all the way home.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Thanks man I appreciate that.


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## syrenn (Jan 28, 2011)

draper said:


> Mubarrak going to make an announcement soon.  Exciting times................I just hope this does not pave the way for the Northern African states leadership to be replaced with whack job Islamic regimes.



Sadly though i believe that will be the case.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

Hes probably going to declare a state of emergency, Syria has been in a state of emergency for decades, it gives them the excuse to put down the uprising and have the Military and the Police on the streets 24/7.


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## Sallow (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Hes probably going to declare a state of emergency, Syria has been in a state of emergency for decades, it gives them the excuse to put down the uprising and have the Military and the Police on the streets 24/7.



Maybe. History would agree with you. (Iran, Syria, and Zimbabwe).

But it could go down like Tunisia..although that's doubtful. I am hoping for a middle ground where there is a peaceful, and slow, transition from Mubarak to something far more Democratic and secular.


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## L.K.Eder (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Hes probably going to declare a state of emergency, Syria has been in a state of emergency for decades, it gives them the excuse to put down the uprising and have the Military and the Police on the streets 24/7.




state of emergeny is in place since the assassination of sadat.

and a long time before that, too.

there was only a short break.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
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> > Hes probably going to declare a state of emergency, Syria has been in a state of emergency for decades, it gives them the excuse to put down the uprising and have the Military and the Police on the streets 24/7.
> ...



Egypt has much better riot police and Military than Tunisia, so for Egypt to fall the opposition will have to kick up way more dust than what happened in Tunis.


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## B. Kidd (Jan 28, 2011)

Our 3 billion dollars a year in aid to Egypt buys alot of bullets to shoot half-starved protestors.


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## The Infidel (Jan 28, 2011)

draper said:


> Mubarrak going to make an announcement soon.  Exciting times................I just hope this does not pave the way for the Northern African states leadership to be replaced with whack job Islamic regimes.



Well get ready, because thats what I predict is going to happen.

The Muslim Brotherhood


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## saveliberty (Jan 28, 2011)

Somebody needs to submit a Gay Marriage bill to the Egyptian government today.  I'm thinking the guy with the pink scarf two posts back?


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> Somebody needs to submit a Gay Marriage bill to the Egyptian government today.  I'm thinking the guy with the pink scarf two posts back?



Homosexuals are thrown in jail in Egypt, you expect them to pass a gay marriage bill?


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## saveliberty (Jan 28, 2011)

Scarasm 101 - just follow me around for awhile.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> Scarasm 101 - just follow me around for awhile.



LOL , got it.


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## Intense (Jan 28, 2011)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- U.S. stocks tumbled and oil prices rallied Friday, as investors grew nervous about political unrest in Egypt. 

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) lost 137 points, or 1.2%. A 4% drop in Microsoft's (MSFT, Fortune 500) stock led the blue chips lower despite the company posting record sales of $20 billion. The losses also put the Dow on track for its first weekly decline and biggest daily drop since November. 

0Email Print The S&P 500 (SPX) slipped 19 points, or 1.4%, dragged down by Monster Worldwide (MWW), which issued a weak outlook, and Ford (F, Fortune 500), which posted lower-than-expected earnings. The tech-heavy Nasdaq dropped 61 points, or 2.2%, with shares of Amazon (AMZN, Fortune 500) sinking more than 8%.

Investors are worried that that the situation in Egypt could intensify over the weekend, and are taking some money off the table ahead of that possibility.

"Political turmoil is not good for the stability of the market, and Egypt is a populous country that borders one of the busiest shipping routes in the world, so that's getting investors nervous," said Peter Tuz, president at Chase Investment Counsel.

The Market Vectors Egypt Index ETF (EGPT) slipped almost 3%. The ETF tracks the performance of companies that are either listed on an exchange in Egypt or that generate the majority of their revenues in Egypt.

Oil also rallied on concerns about crude shipments through the Suez Canal, which is controlled by Egypt. About 8% of global sea trade travels through the canal, making it one of the world's busiest waterways. 

Crude for March delivery rallied more than 4% to $89.29 a barrel.

Market Report - Jan. 28, 2011 - CNNMoney.com


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## saveliberty (Jan 28, 2011)

Buy low, sell high.


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## draper (Jan 28, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> Well get ready, because thats what I predict is going to happen.
> 
> The Muslim Brotherhood




I think Wall St thinks that too - oil prices up, DOW is down.  The shame of it is, they are protesting is because they are hungry and jobless.  It is what happens when there is huge income disparity and no middle class.  Makes me wonder what will happen in the US when the middle class is wiped out.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.


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## Terral (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi Willow:



WillowTree said:


> I hope any Americans over there get the hell out.



All hell should be breaking out in America, but Americans are too stupid to realize the bankster fascists have robbed you blind and the currency is on the brink of collapse and many are already swallowed up by the Depression. The bought-and-paid-for American politicians and media are helping to hide the truth, but eventually America will wake up to the reality of what is going on and all hell will break loose here too. 

Are you ready from the coming crisis?

GL,

Terral


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## saveliberty (Jan 28, 2011)

Terral, just take the medicine the way it tells you to on the label.


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## Sallow (Jan 28, 2011)

draper said:


> The Infidel said:
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> > Well get ready, because thats what I predict is going to happen.
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Wow..just checked.

As if 1:49 EST..it's down 163 points.

Man.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

Why can't unrest in the Middle East bring gas prices down?


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## draper (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Why can't unrest in the Middle East bring gas prices down?



I don't know why God buried our oil underneath so many angry people either.


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## WillowTree (Jan 28, 2011)

How many politicians and presidents have made the declarative statement "We must get away from reliance on foreign oil" how many? and the pressent dude puts a moratorium on drilling.. he wants his bullet trains to run on wind?


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## saveliberty (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Why can't unrest in the Middle East bring gas prices down?



Because the MidEast oil for the most part must be shipped through the Suez Canal.  Painfully close to Egypt.  Supply interuptions mean shortages, which in turn means price increases.


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## L.K.Eder (Jan 28, 2011)

saveliberty said:


> High_Gravity said:
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painfully close?


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## WillowTree (Jan 28, 2011)

And another thing. It's not a good idea to give anybody a kill switch on the internet. See?


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## Ropey (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm interested in seeing the true will of the Egyptian people. I watch this movement with interest.  I would also like to see all monies extended to Egypt, Israel and Jordan ended. 

It has stopped this movement for too long and has interfered in Israeli politics as well.  Stop it all including monies from the US to Gaza/West Bank.

My personal view? Let the people all over the middle east  decide what they wish and let the world know their minds.



draper said:


> High_Gravity said:
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> > Why can't unrest in the Middle East bring gas prices down?
> ...



Because it isn't yours?


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## dilloduck (Jan 28, 2011)

Ropey said:


> I'm interested in seeing the true will of the Egyptian people. I watch this movement with interest.  I would also like to see all monies extended to Egypt, Israel and Jordan ended.
> 
> It has stopped this movement for too long and has interfered in Israeli politics as well.  Stop it all including monies from the US to Gaza/West Bank.
> 
> ...



Then who do the resources of the world belong to ?
Are we breathing American air ? Drinking American water ?


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## Ropey (Jan 28, 2011)

dilloduck said:


> Ropey said:
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> 
> > I'm interested in seeing the true will of the Egyptian people. I watch this movement with interest.  I would also like to see all monies extended to Egypt, Israel and Jordan ended.
> ...



Come on. Do you believe that the resources of the Middle East are the property of everyone who wants them?


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## LibocalypseNow (Jan 28, 2011)

Amen. Yea it could be another Iran situation over there. Who knows who's really waiting in the wings to take over that nation. It could be the deranged Islamic Clerics,just like in Iran. It would be wise to get Americans out of there.


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## saveliberty (Jan 28, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> saveliberty said:
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Being gentle with the geographically challenged.


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## WillowTree (Jan 28, 2011)

Ropey said:


> dilloduck said:
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He asked you a question. Who does the water and air belong to? What if WE were the only ones who had it?


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## L.K.Eder (Jan 28, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> Ropey said:
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then i will answer.

everything what is on or above or under US american soil belongs to the USA.

everything else belongs to those who grab it. 

okay? fair and balanced?


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## draper (Jan 28, 2011)

Uh, my God burying the oil post was a joke, folks.  Hence the winky.


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## Samson (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.



And its been that way for about 4,000 years.


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## High_Gravity (Jan 28, 2011)

Samson said:


> High_Gravity said:
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> > In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.
> ...



All those fucking billions we gave to Mobarak, and it all went to line the pockets of the regime and to the Military, maybe they should have put some of that into their economy?


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## WillowTree (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Samson said:
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that's what happens to most of our money. have you looked at Haiti? Have you. The US should cut off all foreign aid immediately.


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## Samson (Jan 28, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Samson said:
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Why?


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## LordBrownTrout (Jan 28, 2011)

People have to want democracy.   The ME doesn't want democracy.


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## L.K.Eder (Jan 28, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


> People have to want democracy.   The ME doesn't want democracy.



thanks for your opinion about a whole region. and millions of people.


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## Trajan (Jan 28, 2011)

WillowTree said:


> I hope any Americans over there get the hell out.



ha! I have a co-worker who is supposed to be going over there for 3 weeks next Thursday....


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## LordBrownTrout (Jan 28, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
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> > People have to want democracy.   The ME doesn't want democracy.
> ...



My mistake for generalizing.  Thanks for the correction.  I truly believe that Iran wants a democracy and needs to throw the clerics out.


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## Intense (Jan 28, 2011)

Trajan said:


> WillowTree said:
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> > I hope any Americans over there get the hell out.
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Not a good idea. State Dept is advising Americans to leave Egypt.


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## Trajan (Jan 28, 2011)

It might be wise to remember that we thought we had a chance at trading up, because Iran wanted to be 'democratic'  as we let the shah go down. 
interesting article...

Will democratic movements in Tunisia and Egypt heed lessons of Iran's revolution?

An exiled former president of Iran explains that an open future for the Arab world could mean the flowering of democracy &#8211; or resurgent dictatorship. To keep a new strongman from taking over, certain conditions must be met.


By removing a despot who was the main obstacle to democracy, the Tunisian revolt has immense importance for the Arab and Islamic world. Above all, it has opened up a future which, due to the iron grip of an authoritarian political system backed by European and Arab governments, had been considered closed.

As we see already from the burgeoning demonstrations in Egypt, it is not lost on others in the region that ousting corrupt autocrats is no longer just an impossible dream. Tunisia&#8217;s message to others in the region is that despotism is not a lot in life to which they must submit. That message is spreading fast because the Tunisian democratic movement is legitimately homegrown and not tied to a Western sponsor, as was the case with the US invasion of Iraq.

As I well know from personal experience, however, an open future includes not only the possibility of democracy, but the possibility of resurgent dictatorship in one form or another.


In order to achieve democracy and diminish the prospect of a new strongman taking over, certain conditions have to be fulfilled.
Distance from old regimes and elites

First, the movement has to distance itself from the old regime and its elites. Revolutions only happen when the system is thoroughly dismantled and rebuilt. For now, the political and neo-liberal economic structures which supported Ben Ali&#8217;s dictatorship, although shaken and fragile, are to a large extent still intact. The same elites are still in charge.

From this perspective, it was a mistake for the movement to enter into negotiations to form a coalition government with the old elites. They can be trusted only when they voluntarily resign and allow themselves to be replaced by others elected by the people.

Second, the entire structure of the despotic regime &#8211; the executive, judiciary and legislative branches &#8211; should be revolutionized. It would be a mistake to limit the objectives of the movement to simply changing personalities.


the money shot-
snip-

_The unfortunate lesson of the Iranian revolution was that most political organizations did not commit themselves to democracy. Lacking the unity of a democratic front, one by one they became targets of power-seeking clergy in the form of the Islamic Republic Party, and were pushed aside._


more at-
Will democratic movements in Tunisia and Egypt heed lessons of Iran's revolution? - CSMonitor.com


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## L.K.Eder (Jan 28, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


> L.K.Eder said:
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and tunisians and algerians, and jordanians and egyptians?

they don't want democracy?

to me it looks like you americans are whipped into a "fear the mooslim" frenzy again.


decades ago it was the "fear the socialist/commie" frenzy. that's when mossadegh, lumumba, allende were replaced by the shah, mobutu and pinochet. and that's just a start.


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## Trajan (Jan 28, 2011)

Intense said:


> Trajan said:
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well, I told her  that it may be settled by next week, OR not, and be even more volatile,  but she says that her tour grp. is small at 8 people and the organizer tour manager how will escort them is a husband and wife team how are Egyptian and live in Cairo.....they are starting out there and heading south directly.


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## Ropey (Jan 28, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


> People have to want democracy.   The ME doesn't want democracy.



I'm not so sure of that. Most Egyptians do not want Western Democracy. Some do. Some want a Democracy that does not separate Church and State. 

Some want no Democracy and only an autocratic religion. Most of those are in Lebanon though, and Mubarak has not let Shia have any control (Egypt has the best Arab intelligence/counter intelligence in the region).  I don't see another Iran. There's simiply not enough angst in Egypt. 

Egypt has quite a bit of secular roots and many also see themselves as of the Egyptian race and not Arabs.  

So, let them have at it and let them decide as a people. It's time. America thought it could pay to keep peace. It worked. That day seems over and I think that there is a chance of good with it being over. No, Egypt is not Iran.  Will the Army beat down the people? Possibly, but not for long. One can not hold back the tide. 

It is upon us. I watch with great interest.


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## zzzz (Jan 28, 2011)

The people are restless. They are hungry and they are poor. They want change. But it matters not how much they change the government there is no food or jobs to give. It's going to be a long violent year.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jan 28, 2011)

Ropey said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
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> 
> > People have to want democracy.   The ME doesn't want democracy.
> ...



Interesting and good incite.  Thanks for the perspective.  How would you explain the clerics suppression of the uprising in Iran a couple of years ago?


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## Trajan (Jan 28, 2011)

Mubarak is a SOB, BUT hes our SOB....


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## Ropey (Jan 28, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


> How would you explain the clerics suppression of the uprising in Iran a couple of years ago?



Iran is a Theocratic Autocracy that has blended the government with their own power bases. They are all one people culturally. Oh, there are a few Christians and Jews, Bahai, Kurds, etc. but the ~85% Shia are in control of that country. Yes, they have their divisions and issues with their minorities as well as Shia rifts, but you really don't see them blowing themselves or others up. They will pay you to blow yourself up around their enemies, but they're not going to blow themselves up. The Muslim Brotherhood look to that avenue, but I digress.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a "*Twelver*" who believes that _they _can hasten the end of times. They (Twelvers) work towards a nuclear military pile for that reason. To hasten their end of times.  

Now at this time there is a pretty good battle with the Clerics and the Twelvers because the Twelvers wish to continue with the creation of a nuclear pile, and the Clerics are against this. A battle on, but the battle is muted since Stuxnet and other implementations have lengthened their time frame for the creation of a military nuclear pile. (~2015)

If Nejad wins this battle, and if the political cycle continues, then it will likely move into a dictatorship rather than a Democracy.  There's nothing going on with unrest in Iran. Even when the 2009 "unrest" began it was brutally held down by the Basij security force and the Republican Guards along with the policing forces. No one knows how many of the six forces of Basij there are, but estimates are easily in the million plus range. These special groups contain with immunity when any battle is on and they have been picked for aggressiveness. These are all under Nejads control. The Republican Guard is the battle ground at the moment, but it is a years long battle. Look to the deaths in Iran for an idea of the momentum.  

It's a die toss all around so when that is the case I go with momentum.  What's moving at the moment. 

*Click*


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## L.K.Eder (Jan 28, 2011)

Ropey said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> > How would you explain the clerics suppression of the uprising in Iran a couple of years ago?
> ...



dude, being a twelver shia believer is not equal to being someone who wants to expedite the end of times.

that's ridiculous.


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## LordBrownTrout (Jan 28, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> Ropey said:
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Ropey's correct and nutjob is a 12er.


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## L.K.Eder (Jan 28, 2011)

LordBrownTrout said:


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of course ahmadinejad is a 12er, as are 90% of iran, as are the clerics.

so you missed the point, congrats.


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## Ropey (Jan 29, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> dude, being a twelver shia believer is not equal to being someone who wants to expedite the end of times.
> 
> that's ridiculous.





Ropey said:


> Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a "*Twelver*" *who believes* that _they _can hasten the end of times. They (Twelvers) work towards a nuclear military pile for that reason. To hasten their end of times.



He's a twelver who believes that man can hasten the coming of the Mahdi.  Not all twelvers believe that man can do this.  Closer to 80% are twelvers though, not ninety percent.


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## Trajan (Jan 29, 2011)

anyway, anyone see this/ seems a bit over wrought to me...


Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising

The American government secretly backed leading figures behind the Egyptian uprising who have been planning &#8220;regime change&#8221; for the past three years, The Daily Telegraph has learned.


The American Embassy in Cairo helped a young dissident attend a US-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police.

On his return to Cairo in December 2008, the activist told US diplomats that an alliance of opposition groups had drawn up a plan to overthrow President Hosni Mubarak and install a democratic government in 2011.

The secret document in full

He has already been arrested by Egyptian security in connection with the demonstrations and his identity is being protected by The Daily Telegraph.

The crisis in Egypt follows the toppling of Tunisian president Zine al-Abedine Ben Ali, who fled the country after widespread protests forced him from office. 

more at-

Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph


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## Ropey (Jan 29, 2011)

Trajan said:


> more at-
> 
> Egypt protests: America's secret backing for rebel leaders behind uprising - Telegraph



I can see this possibility.

Obama is a bright man and who knows what he has been doing behind the scenes.  Hillary is a great one to deliver, but she's delivering his stuff, not hers. He's the boss, let no one think otherwise. 

Thanks for the update Trajan. Yes, who knows what the relationship will be indeed. I have always thought Wikileaks a good thing. I bet Obama does as well.

He most assuredly did not like the double talk and double treatment of the Saudi King. 

Who knows what the winds of time shall bring?


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## LibocalypseNow (Jan 29, 2011)

Not many good choices made by the People of the Middle East. They just can't seem to get much right over there. They choose either oppressive autocratic regimes or deranged & oppressive theocratic regimes. Either way the People of the Middle East lose. It's pretty sad.


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## saveliberty (Jan 29, 2011)

I read there were 68 killed and 2,000 injured yesterday.


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## Cain (Jan 29, 2011)

draper said:


> The Infidel said:
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> > Well get ready, because thats what I predict is going to happen.
> ...



If their is riots like that in the US I'd bet they'll be much worse, cause a lot of people here are armed. I hope that doesn't happen, frankly every-time I see riots I always hear a bout how they rob people in the same situation as they are.


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## saveliberty (Jan 29, 2011)

Cain said:


> draper said:
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I t is hard to take a cab across town in a riot.


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## Trajan (Jan 29, 2011)

(if) when the elements that genuinely want a democracy have a sy in the forming of a gov. the next step may be, well what you see below. 

Jordan's opposition: Arabs will topple tyrants

AMMAN, Jordan (AP) - The leader of Jordan's powerful Muslim Brotherhood warned Saturday that unrest in Egypt will spread across the Mideast and Arabs will topple leaders allied with the United States.

Hammam Saeed's comments were made at a protest outside the Egyptian Embassy in Amman, inspired by massive rallies in neighboring Egypt demanding the downfall of the country's longtime president, Hosni Mubarak.

About 100 members of the fundamentalist group and activists from other leftist organizations and trade unions chanted "Mubarak, step down" and "the decision is made, the people's revolt will remain."

Elsewhere, a separate group of 300 protesters gathered in front of the office of Jordanian Prime Minister Samir Rifai, demanding his ouster. "Rifai, it's time for you to go," chanted the group.

more at-

My Way News - Jordan's opposition: Arabs will topple tyrants


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## B. Kidd (Jan 29, 2011)

Samson said:


> High_Gravity said:
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> > In Egypt you are either rich or poor, nothing else.
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Except, 4,000 years ago they did not have the internet or social networking. 60 per cent of Egypt's population is under age 30 and this generation finally is not happy banging 2 rocks together for 2 bucks a day like their fathers.


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## Ropey (Jan 29, 2011)

B. Kidd said:


> Except, 4,000 years ago they did not have the internet or social networking. 60 per cent of Egypt's population is under age 30 and this generation finally is not happy banging 2 rocks together for 2 bucks a day like their fathers.



And they know they can do better. But, who will lead them?


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## B. Kidd (Jan 29, 2011)

Ropey said:


> B. Kidd said:
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> 
> > Except, 4,000 years ago they did not have the internet or social networking. 60 per cent of Egypt's population is under age 30 and this generation finally is not happy banging 2 rocks together for 2 bucks a day like their fathers.
> ...



That's the $64,000 question. I don't believe a democracy has ever followed a revolution in any mid-eastern country.


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## Samson (Jan 29, 2011)

B. Kidd said:


> Samson said:
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> > High_Gravity said:
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Well, obviously having the internet has really screwed them up.

Damn Message Boards.


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## Ropey (Jan 29, 2011)

B. Kidd said:


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I love history. I did not expect Obama to win.  I saw the pattern of "Old White Guy" followed by another "Old White Guy" sometimes interspersed with a "Younger White Guy" but never did I expect a Black President of America in my lifetime.

I was prepared to see an "Old White Women" before a "Young Black Man".

A jump out of the blue, which enforces quick major changes on humanity. It happens with genetics and Darwin spoke of this effect in his treatise on the Evolution of Species.

Who knows what will happen?  I don't fear for it as it is movement and the status quo of the arena is not sustainable. There needs to be an Arabian Peninsula Economic block if the people are to survive with the coming global climate change, etc. Already Dubai is shipping water in and worse is to come.  Warfare is useless in the upcoming fight to feed and survive with the high degrees of population increases in the Arabian Peninsula, which could sustain the current populations far better than the status quo. 

So, I am hopeful, not fearful.


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## Samson (Jan 29, 2011)

B. Kidd said:


> Ropey said:
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Well, the Tree of Liberty doesn't thrive on manuer alone.

The USA has brought democracy to Iraq: Did anyone expect every other country in the region to sit by and watch and do NOTHING?


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## Trajan (Jan 29, 2011)

hummmm, are they truly mad they don't have a 'democracy'...? really? and define prop up? so we give money to Egypt. okay. do we give money to Jordan ( yes 204 million as of 2004 all I could find) and Saudi Arabia? Syria? No. 

so lets say the people in oh Syria get pissed at assad....are they mad at us or mad that he hasn't done enough of the 'country'? ha SA bribed their people into just laying down? Has Assad just sat on his people hard enough? 

Are many mad we give Israel money? yes on all counts.

Are there other correlations?


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## Samson (Jan 29, 2011)

Trajan said:


> hummmm, are they truly mad they don't have a 'democracy'...? really? and define prop up? so we give money to Egypt. okay. do we give money to Jordan ( yes 204 million as of 2004 all I could find) and Saudi Arabia? Syria? No.
> 
> so lets say the people in oh Syria get pissed at assad....are they mad at us or mad that he hasn't done enough of the 'country'? ha SA bribed their people into just laying down? Has Assad just sat on his people hard enough?
> 
> ...



They also have very few McDonald's, KFC's, and Taco Bells.

Wouldn't you be pissed??


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## Cain (Jan 29, 2011)

saveliberty said:


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I live on a farm, what happens in cities is not a concern to me for immediate effect, what concerns me is if chaos comes and I end up having to fight off people.


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## Samson (Jan 29, 2011)

Cain said:


> saveliberty said:
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You live on a farm in Egypt?


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## zzzz (Jan 29, 2011)

Want to know what happens in a real riot in this country. Look at Detroit in 1967. LBJ had to call the US Army in to quell the riot. Ended up having 43 dead, 467 injured, over 7,200 arrests, and more than 2,000 buildings destroyed. This in one city. I remember seeing buildings burning and fireman would not respond because of snipers. Then you had the Newark in 1967 that left 26 dead and jundred injured.  But one of the things about these is that they destroyed their own neighborhoods.


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## Cain (Jan 29, 2011)

Samson said:


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No, I live on a farm in Tennessee (United States), I was referring to how taxis do not affect me lol.


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## LibocalypseNow (Jan 30, 2011)

The Media and most people really are jumping the gun on their celebrations. These uprisings in the Muslim World may start out being about Freedom & Democracy but they rarely end up that way. The hard-line Islamists are already taking advantage of this upheaval. This is happening in Tunisia as well. So it may be about Freedom & Democracy today but don't expect their Government to reflect this in the future. The hard-liner Islamists will probably end up gaining most from this uprising.


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## Samson (Jan 30, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The Media and most people really are jumping the gun on their celebrations. ... The hard-liner Islamists will probably end up gaining most from this uprising.



The US Media will gain the most: What else are they suppose to do?

The Daily Updates about Gabrielle Giffords' recovery and Jared Loughner's Life-long Lunacy get a little stale.

Look for Obama to part the Red Sea and bring Peace to Egypt before November 2012.


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## LibocalypseNow (Jan 30, 2011)

Samson said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
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> > The Media and most people really are jumping the gun on their celebrations. ... The hard-liner Islamists will probably end up gaining most from this uprising.
> ...



Yea we'll see what happens after the Media loses interest in this story. I suspect Mubarak is probably just waiting em out at this point. Who knows what's gonna happen once the TV cameras are turned off. I'm not too sure Mubarak is done just yet.


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## Trajan (Jan 30, 2011)

just watched chris wallace question hillary...she said Tuesday that Mubarak was stable and  in control and the Egyptian gov. was dealing with the events,  then yesterday he ran a clip of the flip flop..she didn't do a good explaining we want it both ways....she needs more practice, Bill  would have hit it out of the park.

Surprisingly Boehner did a much better job...


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## Flopper (Jan 30, 2011)

*What's happening in Egypt should be taken as a cautionary tale which could be repeated in a number of countries where governments disconnects with the poor and 90% of the wealth is controlled by 10% of the people.  Although the unemployment rate in Egypt is about the same as the US, a large percent of the workforce is little more than slave labor.  40% of the Egyptian population lives in poverty.  2.6 million Egyptians suffer  from hunger and malnutrition. In Garbage City outside of Cairo, people live and work in garbage.

Incredible 'Garbage City' Rises Outside of Cairo
*


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## Douger (Jan 30, 2011)

Flopper said:


> *What's happening in Egypt should be taken as a cautionary tale which could be repeated in a number of countries where governments disconnects with the poor and 90% of the wealth is controlled by 10% of the people.  Although the unemployment rate in Egypt is about the same as the US, a large percent of the workforce is little more than slave labor.  40% of the Egyptian population lives in poverty.  2.6 million Egyptians suffer  from hunger and malnutrition. In Garbage City outside of Cairo, people live and work in garbage.
> 
> Incredible 'Garbage City' Rises Outside of Cairo
> *



Sex Offenders Camp Out Under Bridge - ABC News


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## Samson (Jan 30, 2011)

Cain said:


> Samson said:
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> 
> > Cain said:
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Apparently we need a thread about All Hell Breaking Out in Tennessee.


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## Ropey (Jan 31, 2011)

Egypt is the world's largest grain importer. Whoever takes over in Egypt will find instability  for this reason. It is a shocking state of affairs that the land of the Nile where civilization began, can no longer feed itself and its population is booming. Muslims speak about this vast population growth, but the countries can not sustain such populations. 

I see this in *Malthus *type terms. The USA, Israel, and Muslims will not be the issue soon enough. Muslims unable to feed themselves will bring major riots in many Muslim countries. It had to happen eventually as there are limits to growth. Everywhere in the free and Western civilization the birth rates are decreasing. 



> The classical economists who followed in the footsteps of *Adam Smith* did not enjoy his widespread popularity. Dubbed the "prophets of gloom and doom," they became associated with turning economic thought into a dismal science. Thomas Robert Malthus, in particular, became renown for his pessimistic predictions regarding the future of humanity. His major contribution to economic thought came in the essay "*The Principles of Population*." Originally, Malthus wrote the piece in response to *Utopian *utilitarians who suggested that population growth constituted an unmitigated blessing. Essentially, Malthus predicted that the demand for food inevitably becomes much greater than the supply of it. This prediction is rooted in the idea that population increases geometrically while foodstuffs grow at an arithmetic rate.



*Click*



> Overpopulation, famine, pestilence and war continue to ravage the third world. These events constitute an unhappy vindication of many of Malthusian doctrine.


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## Samson (Jan 31, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Egypt is the world's largest grain importer. Whoever takes over in Egypt will find instability  for this reason. It is a shocking state of affairs that the land of the Nile where civilization began, can no longer feed itself and its population is booming. Muslims speak about this vast population growth, but the countries can not sustain such populations.
> 
> I see this in *Malthus *type terms. The USA, Israel, and Muslims will not be the issue soon enough. Muslims unable to feed themselves will bring major riots in many Muslim countries. It had to happen eventually as there are limits to growth. Everywhere in the free and Western civilization the birth rates are decreasing.
> 
> ...




Now, now Ropey......let's not be the pessimist:

They do have Allah and the Prophet Mohammed on their side.


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