# fleas?



## strollingbones (Jun 18, 2009)

what do you use for fleas both cats and dogs....i used promeris last year.  it is strange it paralizes the jaws of the fleas and they starve to death...jumping about the whole time, so if you dont get it on them before the fleas...the dogs and cats go nuts with the jumping fleas.  

do you rotate meds for fleas and if so how?

do you give heartworm pills?  i do but only every 6 months and only  as long as the breeding cycle of skeeters is still going on.  i stop in the winter.

so what have you found best for indoor and outdoor dogs?


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## Skull Pilot (Jun 18, 2009)

We use frontline for fleas and ticks and interceptor for heartworm and intestinal worms.

FYI if you stop heartworm treatment for part of the year, you should be testing your dogs every year before starting the heartworm treatment again.

We give heartworm prevention all year round, the price of an appointment and the test is more than the cost of the extra months treatment.

And another FYI, If you buy products like frontline and heart guard on line or at a store, those products are NOT guaranteed by the manufacturer where if you buy them from a vet, they are.

For example, if you buy heartguard from petmeds express and you miss a month and your dog contracts heartworm, you are liable for all treatment costs.  If you buy it from your vet, even if you forget to give it and your dog contracts heartworm, the cost of treatment will be paid by Merial.


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## Care4all (Jun 18, 2009)

nothing, there are no fleas up here, or none that ever get on my cat....?

amazing really....we had no fleas in our yard or on our cat in massachusetts either?

ticks?  whole nuther story, one skip in the woods and they probably got ya.


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## strollingbones (Jun 18, 2009)

i know about the voiding and all...we live in a rather isolated area where heartworms are being brought in by floridians...the blain of the universe...i am very care to watch the weather when it hits a certian temp the skeeters breeding cycle is broken...i think we give our dogs way too much shit as is..and they do retest them ,,,vets hide a lot of little secrets....like that heartworms meds only need to be given every 6 weeks...not monthly...they dont think the customers are smart enough to remember ever 6 weeks....

i used frontline but it seem to stop working...i am thinking maybe you need to rotate them somehow...


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## RodISHI (Jun 18, 2009)

Heartgard and in the summer for fleas and ticks he gets shaved, washed regularly, skin so soft, cutter if we are going outside, vitamin B. I only use Frontline or similar products part of the time for him. The chemicals are no better for the dogs than they are for the people.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Diatomaceous Earth It is 100% natural, totally harmless to all vertebrates (humans, pets, etc) and will also de-worm dogs and cats. Will destroy the heartworm too. Get some and put it in their bedding, litter boxes, food, etc and in their coat. You will never see a flea or tick again. Four pound bag lasts you for years. Keep the pesticides and chemicals out of your animals' lives.

Get it here:

Diatomaceous Earth, 4 lb - Worm's Way


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## Skull Pilot (Jun 18, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> i know about the voiding and all...we live in a rather isolated area where heartworms are being brought in by floridians...the blain of the universe...i am very care to watch the weather when it hits a certian temp the skeeters breeding cycle is broken...i think we give our dogs way too much shit as is..and they do retest them ,,,vets hide a lot of little secrets....like that heartworms meds only need to be given every 6 weeks...not monthly...they dont think the customers are smart enough to remember ever 6 weeks....
> 
> i used frontline but it seem to stop working...i am thinking maybe you need to rotate them somehow...



 mosquitoes in all parts of the country can carry heart worm, you can't blame migration for that.  I live in New England and we've been treating our dogs for heart worm for over 30 years.  i remember when we had to put drops in the dog food daily now it's a once a month pill.  there is a twice a year injection that Fort Dodge is rolling out as well called proheart.

And the manufacturer sets the dosing and frequency of meds, not the veterinarians.


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## strollingbones (Jun 18, 2009)

good point about manufactor and not the vets....

thanks for the link mm


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> good point about manufactor and not the vets....
> 
> thanks for the link mm


I have been using D.E. for years and swear by it. There's not a pesticide or any type of anti-insect chemical in my house, or even on my property and never will be.

I haven't seen any type of bug in my house for at least three years, and never on any of my animals.


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## RodISHI (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Diatomaceous Earth It is 100% natural, totally harmless to all vertebrates (humans, pets, etc) and will also de-worm dogs and cats. Will destroy the heartworm too. Get some and put it in their bedding, litter boxes, food, etc and in their coat. You will never see a flea or tick again. Four pound bag lasts you for years. Keep the pesticides and chemicals out of your animals' lives.
> 
> Get it here:
> 
> Diatomaceous Earth, 4 lb - Worm's Way


If you have carpet and animals Borax is a good all purpose dry cleaner too. I use it on the big throw rugs here before I vacuum.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

frontline is the coolest shit to hit pet markets in the last 20 years.  Even cooler than retractable leashes.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> frontline is the coolest shit to hit pet markets in the last 20 years.  Even cooler than retractable leashes.


Very expensive, toxic and completely unnecessary.


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## Phoenix (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Diatomaceous Earth It is 100% natural, totally harmless to all vertebrates (humans, pets, etc) and will also de-worm dogs and cats. Will destroy the heartworm too. Get some and put it in their bedding, litter boxes, food, etc and in their coat. You will never see a flea or tick again. Four pound bag lasts you for years. Keep the pesticides and chemicals out of your animals' lives.
> 
> Get it here:
> 
> Diatomaceous Earth, 4 lb - Worm's Way



I have heard that cedar chips are a natural flea repellent as well when used for animal bedding.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Shogun said:
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> > frontline is the coolest shit to hit pet markets in the last 20 years.  Even cooler than retractable leashes.
> ...



whatever, dude.  It's a price I gladly pay every year to keep fleas out of the house.  I enjoy not having fleas jump out of the carpet onto white socks.. thats just how I roll.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
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As you might know if you've read this thread, I have no flea problem here and haven't for years. And I don't use any toxins in order to accomplish this. Oh and, spend a helluva lot less!


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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well dude, you go ahead and enjoy your mineral salt deodorant and I'll go ahead and use the speedstick equivalent.  to think that your example is broadly applicable pretty much disregards how your location and climate might just differ from mine.  Hell, just because Utah doesn't have a lot of outdoor bugs doesn't mean that Mississippi doesn't have mosquitoes.  In Missouri, we have fleas and ticks.  If cedar shavings and chakra mantras work for you then so be it.  I wish you and your animal the best.  Me and my animal will continue to enjoy the coolest pet product to hit the market since nylabones and retractable leashes.


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## Skull Pilot (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
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IMO fleas are not the problem.  Ticks are.

Lyme Disease, Erlichia, Rocky Mountain Spotted fever are all tick borne diseases that affect dogs AND people.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> well dude, you go ahead and enjoy your mineral salt deodorant and I'll go ahead and use the speedstick equivalent.




First of all it's not "mineral salt" and secondly, there IS no equivalent. Have you bothered to study it? It is 100% effective on ALL invertebrates. No matter the location, climate, whatever. PLUS, it kills heartworms and also ALL worms a pet might get. Does frontline? NO.

I really don't care what you do with your own animals, but if you really care about them you'll study garbage like frontline and others, and get these toxins out of their lives.


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## editec (Jun 18, 2009)

I take my dog and cat to the movies and buy them popcorn.

When the fleas get up to get a coke we all change seats.


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## Zoom-boing (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Diatomaceous Earth It is 100% natural, totally harmless to all vertebrates (humans, pets, etc) and will also de-worm dogs and cats. Will destroy the heartworm too. Get some and put it in their bedding, litter boxes, food, etc and in their coat. You will never see a flea or tick again. Four pound bag lasts you for years. Keep the pesticides and chemicals out of your animals' lives.
> 
> Get it here:
> 
> Diatomaceous Earth, 4 lb - Worm's Way



MM, do you just rub some into your dog's coat and it keeps the fleas/ticks away? Since it's somewhat abrasive does it bother the dog at all or dry her skin?  How often do you do this?  How does it control heartworm?  

We've been using Frontline since we got our dog.  I hate the fact that it's a chemical but do not want fleas or ticks either.  She was on heartguard but we ran out last fall and I didn't get anymore yet.  The weather here is suppose to be warm right now but it's been damp, chilly and rainy for what seems like weeks on end.  I was going to get more heartguard this  week.

Oh, can it be found at a hardware type store or maybe a Lowe's or something?


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## AVG-JOE (Jun 18, 2009)

I got turned on to a product called CAPSTAR a few years ago. It is a pill, given orally and I was sold on it when I watched dead fleas dropping in mass off of a dog a half hour after administration.  I would not have believed it had it not been for the white tile floor!

The box doesn't say it is effective against tics but a vet tech told me it works and I always give my mutts a dose every month and again before a hike and I've not had fleas or tics.  (Florida, no less!)

I think it is made By Novartis (sp?) and no prescription is required.

-Joe


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Shogun said:
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> > well dude, you go ahead and enjoy your mineral salt deodorant and I'll go ahead and use the speedstick equivalent.
> ...



I've been using frontline for the dog's entire 8 year lifespan thus far.  

 	Diatomaceous Earth Crawling Insect Killer acts as an abrasive barrier to crawling ants, cockroaches, earwigs, slugs, among others, and is effective when applied dry to patios, window and door frames, outdoor sills, and any other areas where such pests are found. Not a pesticide, but a mechanical barrier, it can be used indoors as well for control of fleas, carpet beetles and silverfish.


sounds a little too much like asbestos to me.  I'm trying to kill fleas and ticks, not give them a jungle gym to play on under my dog's coat.  I'm glad it works for you, however.  Some people like reusable toilet wipes and cloth tampons.  I'm just not one of them.


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## Skull Pilot (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Shogun said:
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> > well dude, you go ahead and enjoy your mineral salt deodorant and I'll go ahead and use the speedstick equivalent.
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the only way a substance can "kill" heart worm and their larvae is if it is somehow introduced into the dog's blood stream


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## RodISHI (Jun 18, 2009)

AVG-JOE said:


> I got turned on to a product called CAPSTAR a few years ago. It is a pill, given orally and I was sold on it when I watched dead fleas dropping in mass off of a dog a half hour after administration.  I would not have believed it had it not been for the white tile floor!
> 
> The box doesn't say it is effective against tics but a vet tech told me it works and I always give my mutts a dose every month and again before a hike and I've not had fleas or tics.  (Florida, no less!)
> 
> ...


Active ingredient. I think I'll pass. I like to keep the pets around as long as possible.
Nitenpyram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## AVG-JOE (Jun 18, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> AVG-JOE said:
> 
> 
> > I got turned on to a product called CAPSTAR a few years ago. It is a pill, given orally and I was sold on it when I watched dead fleas dropping in mass off of a dog a half hour after administration.  I would not have believed it had it not been for the white tile floor!
> ...



Thanks for the tip, but your link doesn't make it sound too evil - perhaps some more research... 

-Joe


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## Niles (Jun 18, 2009)

Frontline and Advantage eventually stop working.  My outdoor cat stopped getting fleas after about 8 months on a raw diet (google BRAF for more info on this).  I guess it changes their bloodstream to be uninteresting to the fleas.  Natural solutions also include diatemaceous (sp?) earth and lavender baths.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoom and Skull? DE kills heartworms and worms in animals because they ingest it. Most high-end pet foods add DE to the food, just for this. When animals lick their coat, they ingest the DE. Put it on your dog like you would the old flea powders, put it in his bedding, etc. A 4 pound bag will last you 3-4 years. Yes, years. By the way, I have never met a veterinarian who knows anything about this. They are always stunned when I demonstrate it.

Shogun: I am glad to see you can paste from one of the links I gave you. Here's further information from the other one:  DE is microscopic fossilized diatoms. For any creature with an exoskeleton, (insects) it's deadly. It would be like you crawling and walking around on a football field full of razor blades, not a jungle gym.

The DE cuts up the exoskeleton, "bleeds" the insects out. Dehydrates them almost instantly. It works very rapidly.

However, vertebrates such as dogs, cats, humans, and even you Shogun are completely immune to it, it isn't in any way harmful to us. As I said, high-end pet foods have DE in them.

Let's see, frontline costs what, $20 bucks now? For each application? One 4 pound bag of DE lasts years and costs $12-16 bucks depending on how you get it shipped. And works BETTER, isn't toxic, and works on ALL invertebrates not just fleas and ticks. AND kills any and all worms your pet might get. It's a far better product and a far smarter solution to a multitude of pet pest issues.

But that's okay, sheeple like to do what the rest of the herd does. I got no issue with that.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Like i said.. you go ahead and enjoy powdering up your fur biscuit with what amounts to asbestos-like particles.  I'll pass.  A nation of frontline dogs are not wrong.  Even is some hippy rants on about the dangers of deodorant.


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## Big Black Dog (Jun 18, 2009)

My wife and I operated a kennel for 15 years.  We used red cedar chips in the dog houses.  Never once in that 15 years did we have any flea or tick problems.  We used to field trial our beagles too.  After taking the dogs in the field a check of them several days later yielded no fleas or ticks.  Red cedar chips worked for us in their bedding.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Like i said.. you go ahead and enjoy powdering up your fur biscuit with what amounts to asbestos-like particles.  I'll pass.  A nation of frontline dogs are not wrong.  Even is some hippy rants on about the dangers of deodorant.


A nation of dead and sick dogs from frontline isn't wrong either. Look into its side effects and long-term issues.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> what amounts to asbestos-like particles.


Continue to scoff, and outright lie. It's okay with me. Ignorance is truly bliss, that's why you're so happy apparently!

You just go right ahead and blissfully spend your 20 bucks over and over for a product with 30-day efficacy. I'll spend my 15 or so for one that works better, lasts years.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Yea, dude... it's like a fucking pandemic in veterinary offices across the US!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Yea, dude... it's like a fucking pandemic in veterinary offices across the US!


For whatever reason, probably because the pharm companies and the chemical companies hate it, Vets are never educated on DE. All the ones over the 20 years or so that I have used it, were stunned when I demonstrated it.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

yea dude...  veterinary schools across the nation don't know what you do.  This must reflect how a doctor feels when asked if dried Tiger Wang will cure cancer.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Here's frontline's main ingredient, Shogun. A NERVE TOXIN:

Fipronil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Keep putting that nerve gas on them buddy! The REASON they tell you to put it between his shoulders is so he cannot readily ingest it!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> yea dude...  veterinary schools across the nation don't know what you do.  This must reflect how a doctor feels when asked if dried Tiger Wang will cure cancer.


They really don't. When you discuss DE with a Vet, they get the deer in the headlights, confused look. Then they research, and get a bit upset that more people don't know about it.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Here's frontline's main ingredient, Shogun. A NERVE TOXIN:
> 
> Fipronil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Keep putting that nerve gas on them buddy! The REASON they tell you to put it between his shoulders is so he cannot readily ingest it!



so what.  coke has an acid base.  Your lunch today probabaly had some chems in it too.  Hell, have you ever read what shampoo is made with?  Like I said, I've been using it for YEARS and we've not seen any kind of pandemic associated with frontline.  The last issue pet owners had was killer dogfood.... and we saw how quickly THAT became a headline.  I assure you, oh natural one, if dog's start dying because of advantage we'll all know about it.  Until then, i'm afraid i'll go ahead and side with those whove attended vet school instead of Ching Tang's Tiger Wang homeopathic school of holistic medicine.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
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> > Here's frontline's main ingredient, Shogun. A NERVE TOXIN:
> ...




Keep spending that 20 bucks for your 30-day nerve toxin treatment. Like I said, it's okay with me! It's your money. Responding to you here will be quite educational for other folks reading the thread, which is exactly why I posted the information in the first place.

You came in, cheerleading Frontline. "Greatest product ever." It's not. And those type products are always the knee-jerk, no imagination and uninformed answer to the OPs question. I prefer to offer the readers something other than "yeah me too" drivel.

You don't have to like it. But some folks might want to get out of the 20 bucks for every treatment, ya know?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> coke has an acid base.


The only reason it's acidic is the added CO2! Carbon Dioxide gives it the fizz and the acidity! But it's STILL less acidic than your blood! Study a thing called pH and get back to us, Einstein!


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Shogun said:
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which doesn't belay the fact of it's presence in a WIDELY consumed beverage, genius...  Any more than crying about nerve toxins belays the total lack of dog fallout over the continental US.  If you know what the pH scale is and the relative dilution of coke products then perhaps you;ll want to keep from looking like a silly ass the next time the urge hit to scream that the proverbial flea prevention sky is falling.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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the fact remains, Tiger Wang, that more vets and pet owners enjoy the frontline advantage than whatever "solution" you found down at the hippy swap meet.  If you don't like it then don't use it.  THE REST OF US will continue to listen to vets instead of self righteous, stinking hippies who are convinced that deoderant is nothing more than a tool for government mind control.




And, to be honest, if 20 bucks every 3-6 months is too steep then you probably shouldn't even HAVE an animal depending on you.  for real.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
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It's not HARMFUL dude. It doesn't have NERVE TOXINS in it!





> Any more than crying about nerve toxins belays the total lack of dog fallout over the continental US.  If you know what the pH scale is and the relative dilution of coke products then perhaps you;ll want to keep from looking like a silly ass the next time the urge hit to scream that the proverbial flea prevention sky is falling.


I made no such claims, as you well know. I merely accurately informed you that Frontline and other such flea cures aren't the "greatest product" ever, as you trumpeted. And they are toxic. And they are a ripoff.

C'mon, 20 bucks for Vietnam-era nerve gas shit you squirt on your dog's back and lasts for 30 days? And the price never went down with the millions of folks using it? It's a RIPOFF Jack.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
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First off slick, I'm far from a "hippie" and I learned of DE because of my work in the water purification industry. DE is also used, in inedible form, as filter media.

Secondly, money isn't my particular issue. I am 47 and retired, never have to work again, ever, everything paid for, no debts, because I do NOT run with sheeple herds and just do what everyone else does.

Folks can make up their own minds what to do about pet pests. I at least give them a great alternative they can try, instead of mindless, unimaginative, "me too" drivel.


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## Zoom-boing (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Zoom and Skull? DE kills heartworms and worms in animals because they ingest it. Most high-end pet foods add DE to the food, just for this. When animals lick their coat, they ingest the DE. Put it on your dog like you would the old flea powders, put it in his bedding, etc. A 4 pound bag will last you 3-4 years. Yes, years. By the way, I have never met a veterinarian who knows anything about this. They are always stunned when I demonstrate it.
> 
> Shogun: I am glad to see you can paste from one of the links I gave you. Here's further information from the other one:  DE is microscopic fossilized diatoms. For any creature with an exoskeleton, (insects) it's deadly. It would be like you crawling and walking around on a football field full of razor blades, not a jungle gym.
> 
> ...



MM - thanks for the info.  I wouldn't expect a vet know anything about homeopathic or natural type things.  At least, that's not been my experience.  

Does the powder bother the dog's skin in any way at all - is it drying to their skin or anything?  How often do you apply it?  Do you put it in your dog's food?  Thanks.

Shogun - I've used Frontline for 5 years on my dog and never had a problem with it or with the dog, but it_ is_ a nerve chemical.  Think about what it does - why do the fleas get killed off and how might that affect your dog?  Also, I read the back of the package last year - you don't need to apply it once a month unless you have a flea infestation.  You can apply it less frequently (either every 2 or 3 months).  It's in the fine print, but it's there.   Why are you scoffing the DE?  If you don't want to try it, don't.  But if it does just as good a job for less money and less side effects for a dog, why bash it?


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

*]It's not HARMFUL dude. It doesn't have NERVE TOXINS in it!*

oh.. so ONLY NERVE TOXINS are hazardous to health.  gotcha.  


*

I made no such claims, as you well know. I merely accurately informed you that Frontline and other such flea cures aren't the "greatest product" ever, as you trumpeted. And they are toxic. And they are a ripoff.*

In your hippified opinon you may not believe as much.. but, since your opinion is about as universal as your Tiger Wang Cancer Cure...  Vets and Pet owners alike see frontline as a godsend.. If you'd rather rub a salt crystal under your arm then go for it.

*
C'mon, 20 bucks for Vietnam-era nerve gas shit you squirt on your dog's back and lasts for 30 days? And the price never went down with the millions of folks using it? It's a RIPOFF Jack.
*


then don't buy it.  Me and my dog will go ahead and enjoy frontline, grey poupon and warm water, thanks.  It's what all the rich dogs do.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


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yea, i KNOW, dude!  now, if you could only rock the toothpaste industry for selling fluoride in a tube to all those "i want white teeth too" zombies!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> MM - thanks for the info.  I wouldn't expect a vet know anything about homeopathic or natural type things.  At least, that's not been my experience.
> 
> Does the powder bother the dog's skin in any way at all - is it drying to their skin or anything?  How often do you apply it?  Do you put it in your dog's food?  Thanks.


I don't have any dogs, only cats and their skin is alot more sensitive than any dog's would be, and I have seen no issues in the 20 years or so I have used DE. And yes, I put it in their tuna and wet food when they get their once a day "treat." The regular dry cat food I use, has DE already in it.

Application is simple, just like the old flea powders if you're familiar with those. Rub it into the coat. Put it in their bedding, or anywhere else they hang out. Put it in YOUR bedding, kills bedbugs and dust mites! Put it in your carpet, more protection. Kills ants in the kitchen, cockroaches too! Spiders.... Silverfish..... Anything that doesn't have a spine.

By the way, I run a Barn Cat program with area vets. I catch feral cats, take them to the vet. They get tested for FiV and FiL and if they pass, they get "fixed" then I tame them up some, and place them with area farmers and ranchers in their barns as mousers. Works out great for everyone. Farmers and ranchers love DE as well, keeps pests off their dogs and horses too!


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## Zoom-boing (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Zoom-boing said:
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> > MM - thanks for the info.  I wouldn't expect a vet know anything about homeopathic or natural type things.  At least, that's not been my experience.
> ...



Thanks so much for this info, MM!  I'm going to be trying this instead of the Frontline.  No more Heartguard needed either.  

The bolded part - can we ship some to the pols in Washington?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> yea, i KNOW, dude!  now, if you could only rock the toothpaste industry for selling fluoride in a tube to all those "i want white teeth too" zombies!


It's funny you should mention that. I just got done the other day explaining in another thread how the fluoride scare is one of the oldest and most idiotic conspiracy theories on the planet! We add fluoride to the water, because modern water treatment (since the 30s) removes this_ naturally occurring _ingredient from the groundwater. Before the 30s? There was 10 times MORE fluoride in people's water, and if you're on a well that's still true!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoom-boing said:


> The bolded part - can we ship some to the pols in Washington?


It would definitely kill them! But we'd probably get in all kinds of trouble, for shipping white powder to Washington!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Shogun said:


> Vets and Pet owners alike see frontline as a godsend...


Like I said earlier, ignorance is bliss. If they knew better, they would stop using that crap and get DE.


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## Shogun (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Shogun said:
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yea yea... I know.. the end is nigh... *yawn*


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## Zoom-boing (Jun 18, 2009)

> Heart worm prevention:
> 
> Prevention of heartworm infection can be obtained through a number of veterinary drugs. The drugs approved for use in the US are* ivermectin* (sold under the brand name Heartgard and several other generic versions), milbemycin (Interceptor and Sentinel) and moxidectin (ProHeart) administered as pills or chewable tablets. Moxidectin is also available in both a 6-month and 12-month sustained release injection, ProHeart 6, ProHeart 12, administered by veterinarians. The injectable form of moxidectin was taken off the market in the United States due to safety concerns [14]. ProHeart 6 remains on the market in many other countries including Canada and Japan. Its sister product, ProHeart 12 is used extensively in Australia and Asia as a 12-month injectable preventive. Topical treatments are available as well. Advantage Multi (imidacloprid + moxidectin) Topical Solution, which utilizes moxidectin for control and prevention of roundworms, hookworms, heartworms, whipworms, as well as imidacloprid to kill adult fleas. Selamectin (Revolution), is a topical preventive that is likewise administered monthly and also controls fleas, ticks, and mites.
> 
> ...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartworm



> *Ivermectin* (22,23-dihydroavermectin B1a + 22,23-dihydroavermectin B1b) is a broad-spectrum antiparasitic medication.
> 
> Ivermectin and the related avermectin (*an insecticide* most frequently used in home-use ant baits) are macrocyclic lactones derived from the bacterium Streptomyces avermitilis. *Ivermectin kills by interfering with nervous system and muscle function, in particular by enhancing inhibitory neurotransmission.*
> 
> The drug binds and activates glutamate-gated chloride channels (GluCls)[6]. GluCls are invertebrate-specific members of the Cys-loop family of ligand-gated ion channels present in neurons and myocytes.



Ivermectin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Holy crap!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

I kill the fleas, ticks, heartworms, and every other bug, year round, with a little fossilized diatom. It's deadly to all invertebrates, not just fleas, is cheap, and is completely non-toxic to all animals, us, anything with a vertebra. It's safe even for birds, who are particularly delicate and sensitive to chemicals and pesticides. It's deadly to everything on the planet that has a exoskeleton, without exception.

It's a single product that does all that, and costs 80% less. It's a no-brainer.


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## Skull Pilot (Jun 18, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Zoom and Skull? DE kills heartworms and worms in animals because they ingest it. Most high-end pet foods add DE to the food, just for this. When animals lick their coat, they ingest the DE. Put it on your dog like you would the old flea powders, put it in his bedding, etc. A 4 pound bag will last you 3-4 years. Yes, years. By the way, I have never met a veterinarian who knows anything about this. They are always stunned when I demonstrate it.
> 
> Shogun: I am glad to see you can paste from one of the links I gave you. Here's further information from the other one:  DE is microscopic fossilized diatoms. For any creature with an exoskeleton, (insects) it's deadly. It would be like you crawling and walking around on a football field full of razor blades, not a jungle gym.
> 
> ...



you're going to have to post the science on that claim for me to believe that it effectively kills heart worm.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 18, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom and Skull? DE kills heartworms and worms in animals because they ingest it. Most high-end pet foods add DE to the food, just for this. When animals lick their coat, they ingest the DE. Put it on your dog like you would the old flea powders, put it in his bedding, etc. A 4 pound bag will last you 3-4 years. Yes, years. By the way, I have never met a veterinarian who knows anything about this. They are always stunned when I demonstrate it.
> ...


I linked it here earlier. It's also added to livestock feed, keeps the fly population down because it's passed in the manure and keeps right on killing, this time getting flies and their eggs and any maggots who might show up!


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## Shogun (Jun 19, 2009)

And you should see what it can do for your Tile, Kitchen and Grout surfaces!


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## Zoom-boing (Jun 19, 2009)

Shogun said:


> And you should see what it can do for your Tile, Kitchen and Grout surfaces!



  Ok, I love Billy Mayes.  Yes he shouts, yes he can be obnoxious but, what can I say?  The stuff I've tried_ works_.  I use Oxyclean and Magic Putty.  He says what it does and it does what he says.


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## Meister (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm getting a little off topic here...or maybe back on topic to some extent 
The best way to get fleas from the rug inside of the house is to sprinkle salt over the carpet, and leave it for a day or two, then vacuum it up.  Do it again in a couple of days to get rid of the newly hatched fleas.  This is a sure fire method to get rid of the critters without the use of chemicals, and better results.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 19, 2009)

Meister said:


> I'm getting a little off topic here...or maybe back on topic to some extent
> The best way to get fleas from the rug inside of the house is to sprinkle salt over the carpet, and leave it for a day or two, then vacuum it up.  Do it again in a couple of days to get rid of the newly hatched fleas.  This is a sure fire method to get rid of the critters without the use of chemicals, and better results.


DE is better, and doesn't ever need to be vacuumed out.


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## Shogun (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm just razzing ya, midnight.  Have a great weekend!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 19, 2009)

Here's another great natural insecticide, works well on the flying invertebrates: D-limonene (Pure citrus oil) it's also a great solvent, cleaner and stain remover. Is completely non-toxic to all vertebrates, you actually drink some of this stuff any time you drink 7-Up or sprite, Mountain Dew or any other citrus-flavored drink.

Kills any and all insects, most on contact. Dissolves their exoskeleton and desiccates them almost instantly.  Great for wasps, hornets, flies, ants, spiders, any insect. It's also flammable, with a bic lighter and a bottle of this, you have a flame-thrower. Leaves a residual that works for a couple of days as well.

You can buy this at Wal-Mart, it's sold as a cleaner under the brand name De-Solv-It. Works great.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 19, 2009)

Shogun said:


> I'm just razzing ya, midnight.  Have a great weekend!


I know, that's why I repped ya!


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## PixieStix (Jun 28, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Shogun said:
> 
> 
> > well dude, you go ahead and enjoy your mineral salt deodorant and I'll go ahead and use the speedstick equivalent.
> ...


 
I totally agree, I have not used any type of so called flea killer on my pets for 4 years, and no sign of any fleas tics or any other bug. I believe one of my cats ended up with cancer a few years ago because of frontline. I have felt guilty about his suffering ever since. It was unneccesary


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## sitarro (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Zoom and Skull? DE kills heartworms and worms in animals because they ingest it. Most high-end pet foods add DE to the food, just for this. When animals lick their coat, they ingest the DE. Put it on your dog like you would the old flea powders, put it in his bedding, etc. A 4 pound bag will last you 3-4 years. Yes, years. By the way, I have never met a veterinarian who knows anything about this. They are always stunned when I demonstrate it.
> 
> Shogun: I am glad to see you can paste from one of the links I gave you. Here's further information from the other one:  DE is microscopic fossilized diatoms. For any creature with an exoskeleton, (insects) it's deadly. It would be like you crawling and walking around on a football field full of razor blades, not a jungle gym.
> 
> ...



I used to use a DE filled filter system for my aquarium, cleanest water I have ever seen.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

sitarro said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Zoom and Skull? DE kills heartworms and worms in animals because they ingest it. Most high-end pet foods add DE to the food, just for this. When animals lick their coat, they ingest the DE. Put it on your dog like you would the old flea powders, put it in his bedding, etc. A 4 pound bag will last you 3-4 years. Yes, years. By the way, I have never met a veterinarian who knows anything about this. They are always stunned when I demonstrate it.
> ...


Yes, but never give THAT grade of DE to the animals!


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## sitarro (Jun 30, 2009)

For those that doubt MM, here is a sight that is pretty interesting, also explains the difference between food grade DE and pool filter DE. 

Natural food grade diatomaceous earth flea and tick treatment information.


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## Douger (Jun 30, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> what do you use for fleas both cats and dogs....i used promeris last year.  it is strange it paralizes the jaws of the fleas and they starve to death...jumping about the whole time, so if you dont get it on them before the fleas...the dogs and cats go nuts with the jumping fleas.
> 
> do you rotate meds for fleas and if so how?
> 
> ...


I use a little neem oil for ticks but there is enough natural predation here thats only a couple of weeks a year.No heartworm carrying skeeters either.No fleas other than sand fleas along the rivers.
When I lived in the states and the only natural predators were law enforcement Nazi's, I alternated Frontline and Advantage and fed my dogs lots of fresh garlic in their food.


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## strollingbones (Jun 30, 2009)

i think i have some of the de.....use it in the garden....never considered it on pets....the promius.....took the hair off roland....so that is out....now can i use the garden grade de?


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> i think i have some of the de.....use it in the garden....never considered it on pets....the promius.....took the hair off roland....so that is out....now can i use the garden grade de?


Maybe. The label should let you know. However if it's to be used outdoors, pets are going to ingest it anyway so it's probably okay.

The link I sent earlier, for the Concern brand of DE, is specifically for pests, and is approved for animal consumption.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

Douger said:


> fed my dogs lots of fresh garlic in their food.


Garlic is a good _repellent_, but doesn't kill, doesn't break the breeding cycle. Will repel mosquitoes, fleas and ticks on both you and the pets. The garlique supplement is the concentrated active ingredient there, does it all without the odor.


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## Phoenix (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> Diatomaceous Earth It is 100% natural, totally harmless to all vertebrates (humans, pets, etc) and will also de-worm dogs and cats. Will destroy the heartworm too. Get some and put it in their bedding, litter boxes, food, etc and in their coat. You will never see a flea or tick again. Four pound bag lasts you for years. Keep the pesticides and chemicals out of your animals' lives.
> 
> Get it here:
> 
> Diatomaceous Earth, 4 lb - Worm's Way



Do you have any issues with it being tracked through the house, all over the furniture, etc.?  

I've got a Boxer and I just wondered if that short coat wouldn't hold the DE in enough.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

Eve said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > Diatomaceous Earth It is 100% natural, totally harmless to all vertebrates (humans, pets, etc) and will also de-worm dogs and cats. Will destroy the heartworm too. Get some and put it in their bedding, litter boxes, food, etc and in their coat. You will never see a flea or tick again. Four pound bag lasts you for years. Keep the pesticides and chemicals out of your animals' lives.
> ...


I never see it anywhere. My cats pick it up in their litter box, where I always keep a goodly amount of it mixed in with their litter, and in their bedding where I maintain a light dusting once or twice a week. On dogs, same thing. Keep it maintained in their bedding, and dust them with it after they dry out completely from every bath.

Sprinkle it in your carpet and rugs, and even in your own bedding! Kills dust mites, bedbugs, etc and breaks THEIR breeding cycles as well. Use it under counters, behind the fridge and dishwasher, anywhere bugs might be hiding or encroaching. Kills silverfish, spiders, ants, cockroaches. The roaches, they carry this shit in their hair back to their lair and kill the whole colony. When their eggs hatch, these pests eat it and die as well!

The stuff has the consistency of a very fine cooking flour, so it's not a nuisance anyway. Spread it all around.... Well, Liberally!


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

Eve said:


> I've got a Boxer and I just wondered if that short coat wouldn't hold the DE in enough.


Rub it into the fur. Brush it in. My short-haired cats get that treatment every couple to three weeks during bug season. Plus they're picking it up all the time, from their bedding and litterboxes.


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## Phoenix (Jun 30, 2009)

I appreciate the info, MM.


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

Eve said:


> I appreciate the info, MM.


I enjoy helping. I love animals and deplore all of the toxins and chemicals people, mostly unnecessarily, put into their lives.


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## Phoenix (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> I enjoy helping. I love animals and deplore all of the toxins and chemicals people, mostly unnecessarily, put into their lives.



Want a slightly used Boxer with animal aggression issues?  

She's fixed and awesome with people ...


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## Midnight Marauder (Jun 30, 2009)

Eve said:


> Midnight Marauder said:
> 
> 
> > I enjoy helping. I love animals and deplore all of the toxins and chemicals people, mostly unnecessarily, put into their lives.
> ...


To be fair to dogs, I long ago decided not to own any. I cannot give them the type of life they deserve, I would neglect them far too much -- attention wise, playing wise, walks wise, etc..

But thanks!


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## Phoenix (Jun 30, 2009)

Midnight Marauder said:


> To be fair to dogs, I long ago decided not to own any. I cannot give them the type of life they deserve, I would neglect them far too much -- attention wise, playing wise, walks wise, etc..
> 
> But thanks!



Meh - it's ok.  It was worth a shot.


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