# What is your opinion on Mr Putin?



## Comrade Johnson

Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


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## Meathead

Very different and both (Putin & Trump) fascinating men in their own right.


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## TheOldSchool

He's a President as well as a criminal overlord. Something that Trump aspires to.


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## yiostheoy

Trump -- neophyte (means amateur).

Putin -- professional.


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## yiostheoy

Putin has his hands full with Ukraine at the present moment.

Trump has his hands full with N.Korea.

China is a problem both for Putin and for Trump.  They are the sleeping panda bear that nobody can trust.


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## yiostheoy

Gluttony - China

Greed - Trump

Sloth - China

Envy - Putin

Wrath - Putin

Pride - Trump

Lust - Trump.


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## Asclepias

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


Other than the fact his body language screams napoleonic complex I dont think much of or about him.

I can tell Drumpf aspires to be like him but wont make it.


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## montelatici

From a neutral point of view, Putin is doing exactly what the leader of a nation that is being harassed and hounded by the U.S. and its allies.  He has U.S. and forces allied with the U.S. stationed around Russia and Russia naturally feels threatened.

Crimea's Russian majority did not want to be ruled by Ukrainians and they voted to unite with Russia so Putin annexed Crimea.

The U.S. led and financed a coup (see Nuland tapes) against the democratically pro-Russian Ukrainian leader in 2014 leaving the Russian speakers at risk  from the right-wing (fascist nationalists) Ukrainians that were put into power or positions of influence after the U.S. sponsored coup. Understandably Putin felt compelled to protect the Russian speakers of eastern Ukraine.

All in all, if you ignore his knack for murdering or acquiescing to the assasination of political opponents, there is nothing unusual about his policies.


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## DarkFury

*Hell I like him.*


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## Comrade Johnson

montelatici said:


> the democratically pro-Russian Ukrainian leader



Who is that?


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## Hossfly

Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.


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## Dale Smith

I have a thousand times more respect for Putin than I ever did the Barrypuppet....that's for damn sure.


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## Eloy

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


Putin is a gangster who controls the Russian government and ensures his position with control of the media and by murder of those who oppose him. The old KGB operative runs a kleptocracy for the purpose of enriching himself and his cronies.


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## Camp

Putin is a master chess player. Trump is a second rate checkers player.


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## Dale Smith

Hossfly said:


> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.



I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.

Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.

As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. America has no high moral ground on which to stand.


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## Dale Smith

Eloy said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a gangster who controls the Russian government and ensures his position with control of the media and by murder of those who oppose him. The old KGB operative runs a kleptocracy for the purpose of enriching himself and his cronies.
Click to expand...


If you are correct, then he got the playbook from USA.INC which is the biggest organized crime syndicate on the planet.


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## theDoctorisIn

Dale Smith said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.
> 
> As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. *America has no high moral ground on which to stand.*
Click to expand...




Umm, yeah we do.

But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.


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## Bleipriester

Hossfly said:


> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.


Putin: "Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain."

In sharp contrast to corrupted and ridiculous figures like Phrump you can see Putin on the same positions where you saw him yesterday and where you saw him 20 years ago. Surely, Putin is the US´ Number 1 thorn in their side, and it doesn´t matter for them that he always tried to befriend the USA.


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## Bleipriester

Eloy said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a gangster who controls the Russian government and ensures his position with control of the media and by murder of those who oppose him. The old KGB operative runs a kleptocracy for the purpose of enriching himself and his cronies.
Click to expand...

Putin made Russia great again. Something our worms don´t even try.


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## esthermoon

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him


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## Hossfly

Dale Smith said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.
> 
> As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. America has no high moral ground on which to stand.
Click to expand...


The Russians are the masters of propaganda and from what I've studied about Patton, Stalin had him killed for his suspicions. I live near a man who watched the truck hit Patton's car and the aftermath of searching for the mysterious officer who directed Patton's car into the path of the truck. My whole point is that Putin is an extension of Stalin and his successors and is our deadliest enemy. History will confirm it. Glad I won't be here.


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## GHook93

Putin inherited a country devastated by central
planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.

I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.

We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.

Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!


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## there4eyeM

Hossfly said:


> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.


It is absolutely unthinkable that any democratically or republican oriented person could possibly admire or support Putin. Whatever strong points one might attribute in human terms is more than eclipsed by his person.


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## Syriusly

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.



For a former KGB agent, and oligarch, Putin looks good without a shirt on.

As a countries leader, Putin is ruthless, and allows little in the way of opposition in Russia. He is against religious freedom- preferring that Russians be allowed to worship only the official Church(Orthodox) or the specified minority churches. 

He is busy trying to interfere in elections all over the world, to destablize other countries for Russia's advantages.

He is a peach.


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## yiostheoy

there4eyeM said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> It is absolutely unthinkable that any democratically or republican oriented person could possibly admire or support Putin. Whatever strong points one might attribute in human terms is more than eclipsed by his person.
Click to expand...

What do you find so sacred about democracy or republicanism ???


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## Syriusly

DarkFury said:


> *Hell I like him.*



Of course you do. 

The more he murders, the more you like him.


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## Ringel05

Putin is a ruthless and ambitious man who understands and utilizes Machiavellian politics.  In other words he's a strong leader, something the Russians (for the most part) appear to admire.


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## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> I have a thousand times more respect for Putin than I ever did the Barrypuppet....that's for damn sure.



Yep- not a surprise that you respect a murderer and an oligarch.


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## DarkFury

Syriusly said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hell I like him.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do.
> 
> The more he murders, the more you like him.
Click to expand...

And? So?


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## there4eyeM

yiostheoy said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> It is absolutely unthinkable that any democratically or republican oriented person could possibly admire or support Putin. Whatever strong points one might attribute in human terms is more than eclipsed by his person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you find so sacred about democracy or republicanism ???
Click to expand...

Where was sacred implied? Learn to read; you already have projection down.


----------



## Syriusly

GHook93 said:


> Putin inherited a country devastated by central
> planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.
> 
> I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.
> 
> We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.
> 
> Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!



Not our enemy?

You make some good points about nukes- and a 'weak Russia'- but Putin is certainly working to destablize the west- busy trying to interfere in elections all so that Western countries are more in turmoil and less able to counter Russia's ambitions.


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## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
Click to expand...

There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N. 

www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/


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## Dale Smith

theDoctorisIn said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.
> 
> As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. *America has no high moral ground on which to stand.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
Click to expand...


I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.


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## there4eyeM

esthermoon said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
Click to expand...

Authoritarians only ever set the stage for tragedy.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
Click to expand...




Syriusly said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin inherited a country devastated by central
> planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.
> 
> I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.
> 
> We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.
> 
> Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not our enemy?
> 
> You make some good points about nukes- and a 'weak Russia'- but Putin is certainly working to destablize the west- busy trying to interfere in elections all so that Western countries are more in turmoil and less able to counter Russia's ambitions.
Click to expand...



Let's see....how many elections have the CIA influenced? How many governments have they overthrown? You talk about outside influence of elections? How about all that money donated to the Hildebeast from Soros and all his NGOs? Saudi Arabia gave her millions. Russia had NOTHING to do with influencing the election and until you can show me any proof that they hacked into the voter machines like the DHS tried to do in three different states, I will maintain my stance.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
Click to expand...


Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.


----------



## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin inherited a country devastated by central
> planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.
> 
> I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.
> 
> We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.
> 
> Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not our enemy?
> 
> You make some good points about nukes- and a 'weak Russia'- but Putin is certainly working to destablize the west- busy trying to interfere in elections all so that Western countries are more in turmoil and less able to counter Russia's ambitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> . Russia had NOTHING to do with influencing the election and until you can show me any proof that they hacked into the voter machines like the DHS tried to do in three different states, I will maintain my stance.
Click to expand...


LOL- Russia tried to influence this election- and has tried to influence others. 

You will maintain your stance on Russia even if you saw Putin himself stuffing the ballot box, because that is how deep your denial about Russia goes.


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## Hossfly

I am surprised, dismayed and disappointed that so many Americans are so infatuated with the snake charmer Putin. For the past 72 years I have regretted the fact that Eisenhower forbade Patton from liberating Berlin and continuing on to Moscow to arrest Stalin and crush the Red Army. Reading about Patton and his reasoning would cause doubt in many people's attitude about Putin and Russia. Here's a little sample.


*THE FORESIGHT OF PATTON*
*A man who could see Stalin's real agenda long before the rest of the world caught on.*


The Foresight of Patton | Frontpage Mag


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## The Sage of Main Street

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


*Russia's Ronald Reagan*

Vladimir Putin is the greatest Russian since Peter the Great, who was also a little rough along the edges.  He's a strong masculine leader at a time when most of the rest of the world is led by soft, spoiled girlyman weaklings.  America needs to be allies with this guy and the reinvigorated Russian people.  But the worthless, soft, and spoiled Republican cowards, who never had to fight during the Cold War because their fathers' money bought them their way out of it, want to restart the Cold War because they made a lot of money off it without any risk to themselves. 

Trump seems to have been taken prisoner by those Romney Republicans.  He should do to them what Putin did to the thieving Russian billionaires.


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## theDoctorisIn

Dale Smith said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.
> 
> As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. *America has no high moral ground on which to stand.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
Click to expand...




No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.

That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.

So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.


----------



## theDoctorisIn

The Sage of Main Street said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> *Russia's Ronald Reagan*
> 
> Vladimir Putin is the greatest Russian since Peter the Great, who was also a little rough along the edges.  He's a strong masculine leader at a time when most of the rest of the world is led by soft, spoiled girlyman weaklings.  America needs to be allies with this guy and the reinvigorated Russian people.  But the worthless, soft, and spoiled Republican cowards, who never had to fight during the Cold War because their fathers' money bought them their way out of it, want to restart the Cold War because they made a lot of money off it without any risk to themselves.
> 
> Trump seems to have been taken prisoner by those Romney Republicans.  He should do to them what Putin did to the thieving Russian billionaires.
Click to expand...




It's amazing watching the fascists come out of their shell.

No longer is "individuality" the watchword of the right - now it's all about "strong, powerful masculine leaders".


----------



## The Sage of Main Street

DarkFury said:


> *Hell I like him.*


He reminds me of the KGB agent your avatar played in _Telefon._


----------



## Dale Smith

Syriusly said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin inherited a country devastated by central
> planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.
> 
> I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.
> 
> We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.
> 
> Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not our enemy?
> 
> You make some good points about nukes- and a 'weak Russia'- but Putin is certainly working to destablize the west- busy trying to interfere in elections all so that Western countries are more in turmoil and less able to counter Russia's ambitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> . Russia had NOTHING to do with influencing the election and until you can show me any proof that they hacked into the voter machines like the DHS tried to do in three different states, I will maintain my stance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL- Russia tried to influence this election- and has tried to influence others.
> 
> You will maintain your stance on Russia even if you saw Putin himself stuffing the ballot box, because that is how deep your denial about Russia goes.
Click to expand...

 

In what way did they do that? Can you give specific examples? Do you think Barrypuppet going over to France to endorse Macron was "influencing the election"? How about all the foreign money given to the Hildebeast by the Saudis and George Soros and his NGOs? Was that foreign influence?


----------



## Dale Smith

theDoctorisIn said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.
> 
> As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. *America has no high moral ground on which to stand.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.
> 
> That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.
> 
> So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.
Click to expand...



The problem you have is that you know nothing of our real history but rather the propaganda taught to you by the "public fools system".  I am not sure who said this but I have found it to be rather accurate..."History is nothing but agreed upon lies" and history is written by the victors.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.


----------



## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin inherited a country devastated by central
> planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.
> 
> I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.
> 
> We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.
> 
> Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not our enemy?
> 
> You make some good points about nukes- and a 'weak Russia'- but Putin is certainly working to destablize the west- busy trying to interfere in elections all so that Western countries are more in turmoil and less able to counter Russia's ambitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> . Russia had NOTHING to do with influencing the election and until you can show me any proof that they hacked into the voter machines like the DHS tried to do in three different states, I will maintain my stance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL- Russia tried to influence this election- and has tried to influence others.
> 
> You will maintain your stance on Russia even if you saw Putin himself stuffing the ballot box, because that is how deep your denial about Russia goes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In what way did they do that? Can you give specific examples?
Click to expand...


Feel free to use Google

Type: Russia CIA FBI elections

The CIA and FBI have both testified as to Russia's attempts to hack our and other elections.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin inherited a country devastated by central
> planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.
> 
> I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.
> 
> We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.
> 
> Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not our enemy?
> 
> You make some good points about nukes- and a 'weak Russia'- but Putin is certainly working to destablize the west- busy trying to interfere in elections all so that Western countries are more in turmoil and less able to counter Russia's ambitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> . Russia had NOTHING to do with influencing the election and until you can show me any proof that they hacked into the voter machines like the DHS tried to do in three different states, I will maintain my stance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL- Russia tried to influence this election- and has tried to influence others.
> 
> You will maintain your stance on Russia even if you saw Putin himself stuffing the ballot box, because that is how deep your denial about Russia goes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In what way did they do that? Can you give specific examples? Do you think Barrypuppet going over to France to endorse Macron was "influencing the election"? How about all the foreign money given to the Hildebeast by the Saudis and George Soros and his NGOs? Was that foreign influence?
Click to expand...

There are all kinds of ways to influence foreign elections or for foreigners to influence our elections. Some a legal and some are not. The Russians are being investigated for the illegal methods and the trump staff and friends for the illegal methods as well.


----------



## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.
> 
> As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. *America has no high moral ground on which to stand.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.
> 
> That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.
> 
> So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The problem you have is that you know nothing of our real history but rather the propaganda .
Click to expand...


LOL

And of course you know 'our real history'.....

Putin is just a fun loving guy who knits sweaters for hairless puppies.....


----------



## Syriusly

Hossfly said:


> I am surprised, dismayed and disappointed that so many Americans are so infatuated with the snake charmer Putin. For the past 72 years I have regretted the fact that Eisenhower forbade Patton from liberating Berlin and continuing on to Moscow to arrest Stalin and crush the Red Army. Reading about Patton and his reasoning would cause doubt in many people's attitude about Putin and Russia. Here's a little sample.



So yes Putin is a snake charmer- and yes it is amazing how so many on the right have a crush on him.

And Stalin was a mass murderer and empire builder.

But the idea that Patton could simply drive across Europe and arrest Stalin is frankly laughable.

While America did have the stronger air power- Russia had everything else- more troops, more veteran troops, more artillery, more- and better tanks- a shorter supply line- and a people who would not dare object to the war.

Americans had no interest in a war with the Soviets- they were our allies up until they weren't.  

And guess what- in the end, Eisenhower was correct. The Soviet Union collapsed- without millions of American lives being wasted to do so. 

But you are correct- there is more to connect Putin with Stalin than with anything else.


----------



## yiostheoy

An intelligent enemy like Putin is predictable.

An unintelligent enemy like Kim J.U. is unpredictable and a hazard to the Earth and the world living on it.

A complete idiot like Trump is also unpredictable.

Ergo Kim J.U. and Trump are in a quandary with each other.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
Click to expand...


That's cool...we can agree to disagree. What I do know is that George Soros had sponsored some NGOs and we have DCleaks that had hacked into his "Open Society Foundation" and released this.
Hacked Emails Expose George Soros As Ukraine Puppet-Master | Zero Hedge

As far as the Ukrainians wanting the prosperity of what they believe comes with being in the  E.U? How prosperous can these countries be when they are up to their necks in debt to the IMF that extends them credit in exchange for what few resources they haven't already leveraged? What is happening there is the same thing that is happening here......debt that will be left to our children and then their children by mortgaging the future for today. The bankers run it all...if there is one thing I have learned is that once a central bank (owned by a few powerful families) are able to takeover the creation of fiat currency, you can kiss prosperity "good-bye". Putin actually offered the Ukraine a better financial deal but of course the E.U got their puppet in there just like they always do. I have seen this same disgusting scenario played out since 9/11 and I have read about the overthrow of non-cooperative leaders that happened before I was born and after I was born but not aware like I am today. We are seeing this played out in Syria.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's cool...we can agree to disagree. What I do know is that George Soros had sponsored some NGOs and we have DCleaks that had hacked into his "Open Society Foundation" and released this.
> Hacked Emails Expose George Soros As Ukraine Puppet-Master | Zero Hedge
> 
> As far as the Ukrainians wanting the prosperity of what they believe comes with being in the  E.U? How prosperous can these countries be when they are up to their necks in debt to the IMF that extends them credit in exchange for what few resources they haven't already leveraged? What is happening there is the same thing that is happening here......debt that will be left to our children and then their children by mortgaging the future for today. The bankers run it all...if there is one thing I have learned is that once a central bank (owned by a few powerful families) are able to takeover the creation of fiat currency, you can kiss prosperity "good-bye". Putin actually offered the Ukraine a better financial deal but of course the E.U got their puppet in there just like they always do. I have seen this same disgusting scenario played out since 9/11 and I have read about the overthrow of non-cooperative leaders that happened before I was born and after I was born but not aware like I am today. We are seeing this played out in Syria.
Click to expand...

There are book smarts, which you claim to have an abundance of, and in fact, is confirmed by your posts, but there are also street smarts. To have street smarts on this subject you would have to experience the "streets" of the former USSR states of Eastern Europe. If you traveled to those places you would instantly see the difference in the living standards, opportunities and economic benefits of the EU associated countries and places like Ukraine and Belarus.
The masses of citizens in places like Ukraine are not very concerned about global politics, how the big banks and big business operate or even the national politics unless those politics have a direct and understandable influence on them. Very much like US citizens, they concern themselves with everyday life. Like life in America, people want what their neighbors have. They want decent food, shelter, gadgets and material things that give them a sense of happiness and success. Russia does not always offer those things to the masses. Ukrainians know it would take a very long time to meet the standards realized by their neighbors if they aligned with Russia. That is not to say there is not good living and success in Russia, there is, but we are talking about the masses.
It would be nice if you could supplement your education with some travel to some of these places. Prices are great right now for travel to Eastern Europe.


----------



## Dale Smith

Syriusly said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
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> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will respectfully disagree with you....the lamestream media totally misrepresented what happened in the Ukraine and how Crimea aligned themselves with Russia instead of sticking with the globalist E.U and George Soros (that were behind the coup d'etat of the Ukraine) .I knew which factions were behind it fairly soon and I predicted that a E.U friendly puppet would be installed and that the IMF would step in and extend "credit" to Ukraine in exchange for the mineral and land rights as collateral..... just like these globalist bankers do to every country that falls by way of a craftily financed coup...and that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Crimea was part of the Ukraine but heavily populated by Russians that wanted no part of the E.U because once you become a part of the E.U, you give up sovereignty of your country, the leaders become just figureheads because the "leaders" are a bunch of banker selected bureaucrats that dictate policy from their palatial accommodations in Brussels, Belgium. Crimea was the sweetest plum on the tree because of it's peninsula and the Soros led E.U were denied it....so they ran to the Barrypuppet clutching their buttcheeks begging that USA.INC do something about it.....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit. How I see it? Russia has kicked out the central bankers and have nationalized their banks so that they print interest free currency which is why they have been able to withstand the purposely orchestrated drop in the price of oil....this is all being done to bring Russia down because it's main revenue source is oil. The globalists are also pissed that Russia has aligned itself with Syria and the fact that Russia has been kicking the ever loving shit out of the CIA funded mercenaries we know as "ISIS" that were there to wage a proxy war. I know a great deal about this and I see how the wool has been pulled over the eyes of people. I could write another ten pages but I think you get the gist of what I am saying. Russia hacked nothing and they have shown remarkable restraint in hopes that cooler heads prevail. You want mutually assured destruction? Keep poking at the bear...the elites don't give a shit....they have underground bunkers to run too.
> 
> As far as one poster claiming that Putin eliminates his opponents and is a thug? Let me tell ya somethin' Putin is a mere piker compared to what USA.INC has done and continues to this day. *America has no high moral ground on which to stand.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.
> 
> That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.
> 
> So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The problem you have is that you know nothing of our real history but rather the propaganda .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> And of course you know 'our real history'.....
> 
> Putin is just a fun loving guy who knits sweaters for hairless puppies.....
Click to expand...



I never said that Putin was some kind of saint but he is a nationalist and he did kick out the international bankers and nationalized the bank (which EVERY country should do). He is actually encouraging his people to have children and is giving them land for doing so. He was sharing income from natural resources among all Russians when oil and gas prices were high.  The Russian economy was doing quite well and there was little incentive to invest into the production of goods because they could simply have them imported. Now, the situation has changed and I sincerely hope that people have finally figured out that this "peak oil" bullshit was just a way to gouge people because oil is an abiotic fluid and the second most prevalent fluid on earth. The crash of the oil market is being used to crush Russia because they are not "playing ball". Artificial scarcity equals massive profits for the banking oligarchs that own them but they will allow you some cheap gas for awhile until they can crush Russia. Putin is also working to minimize import and maximize local production. The people of Russia and China have been the victims of the biggest genocide crime that makes the Holocaust seem small time by comparison because communism was financed by the banking oligarchs and propped up by them. It's a historical fact but you have to do the reading and research for yourself. I did and I came to my conclusions. Leaders like Reagan that I use to hold in such high esteem wasn't what I though he was while Carter, someone I thought was a joke was actually a very good man and wanted to change things and he did do some very good things like the FOIA. He wasn't the pawn that the Rockefellers that he would be so there would be no second term for him. Bush and the CIA did definitely make a deal with Iran to hold the hostages until after the election....no doubt in my mind about that.


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## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Dale Smith said:
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> 
> 
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> theDoctorisIn said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.
> 
> That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.
> 
> So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The problem you have is that you know nothing of our real history but rather the propaganda .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> And of course you know 'our real history'.....
> 
> Putin is just a fun loving guy who knits sweaters for hairless puppies.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that Putin was some kind of saint but he is a nationalist and he did kick out the international bankers and nationalized the bank.
Click to expand...

Well that is a good Communist move- first thing, nationalize the bank- and have it controlled by the government.


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## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Dale Smith said:
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> 
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> 
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> theDoctorisIn said:
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> 
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> 
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> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.
> 
> That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.
> 
> So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The problem you have is that you know nothing of our real history but rather the propaganda .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> And of course you know 'our real history'.....
> 
> Putin is just a fun loving guy who knits sweaters for hairless puppies.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> . He was sharing income from natural resources among all Russians when oil and gas prices were high. t.
Click to expand...


'sharing'?

Putin has centralized the income from natural resources for the benefit of the oligarchs- including himself.


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## Divine Wind

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


He's a complete fucking murderous asshole bent on rebuilding the Soviet Empire.

Trump is a Real Estate mogul.  A product of America and capitalism.  No comparison.


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## P@triot

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


Vladimir Putin is an _asshole_. He's a corrupt dictator. Just read Bill Browder's book Red Notice.


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## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
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> 
> 
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> theDoctorisIn said:
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> 
> Dale Smith said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, yeah we do.
> 
> But continue your worship of an autocratic despot. It makes everything you post even more hilarious in that context.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.
> 
> That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.
> 
> So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The problem you have is that you know nothing of our real history but rather the propaganda .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> And of course you know 'our real history'.....
> 
> Putin is just a fun loving guy who knits sweaters for hairless puppies.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The people of Russia and China have been the victims of the biggest genocide crime that makes the Holocaust seem small time by comparison because communism was financed by the banking oligarchs and propped up by them. It's a historical fact but you have to do the reading and research for yourselft.
Click to expand...


LOL......


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## P@triot

TheOldSchool said:


> He's a President as well as a criminal overlord. Something that Trump aspires to.


Well....really....Vladimir Putin is more of a dictator. Something your pitiful ass aspires to be.


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## P@triot

Dale Smith said:


> I have a thousand times more respect for Putin than I ever did the Barrypuppet....that's for damn sure.


But that's not saying much. Both believed they were entitled to unlimited power. Sadly, Vladimir Putin was more forthcoming about it than Barca Insane Obama.


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## CrusaderFrank

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.



We <3 Uncle Vlad!!

He singlehandedly defeated St. Hillary the Inevitable. 

Seriously, unlike Barack, he's a leader with a genuine love for the nation he leads


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## P@triot

esthermoon said:


> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.


You're being fed some bad propaganda Esther. Yes - Russia had a lot of corruption after the collapse of the U.S.S.R. The problem is, Putin centralized and consolidated that corruption under his control once he came into power. It's worse than ever because unlike the crime lords who could be stopped - Putin has unlimited power over Russia. There is no one who can stop him or put him in prison. He has *murdered* hundreds of people in Russia and across the world.


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## Divine Wind

GHook93 said:


> Putin inherited a country devastated by central
> planning, socialism and corruption (all things the American left strives for). He also has a very significant Muslim problem. Much worse than ours or Europe. It was a tough situation and a tough leader was necessary.
> 
> I think he is one of the most slandered leaders in the world. I keep hearing about what a threat he is to the US, but he is more like a belligerent dissenter. A weak Russia is a threat, because we don't want any of their nukes to go missing.
> 
> We don't worry about Russia attacking us or selling nukes to Islamist. Hell he is fighting Islamist. Obama and yes Trump are wrong about Syria and Putin is right. Assad must win otherwise Sunni jihadist take over.
> 
> Putin is not a good man or our friend, but he is definitely not our enemy!


^^^This announcement paid for by Russian Television!


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## RodISHI

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US and possibly keep stability in his neighborhood in the world. I do think he needs to keep a short leash on his muslim guard 'dog'.


 
He seems to love his dogs. He can't be all bad. Dog lovers are generally decent at heart.


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## Syriusly

RodISHI said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
Click to expand...


Well that is an amusing take on Putin.

Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.

He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.


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## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
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> Camp said:
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> Dale Smith said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
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> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's cool...we can agree to disagree. What I do know is that George Soros had sponsored some NGOs and we have DCleaks that had hacked into his "Open Society Foundation" and released this.
> Hacked Emails Expose George Soros As Ukraine Puppet-Master | Zero Hedge
> 
> As far as the Ukrainians wanting the prosperity of what they believe comes with being in the  E.U? How prosperous can these countries be when they are up to their necks in debt to the IMF that extends them credit in exchange for what few resources they haven't already leveraged? What is happening there is the same thing that is happening here......debt that will be left to our children and then their children by mortgaging the future for today. The bankers run it all...if there is one thing I have learned is that once a central bank (owned by a few powerful families) are able to takeover the creation of fiat currency, you can kiss prosperity "good-bye". Putin actually offered the Ukraine a better financial deal but of course the E.U got their puppet in there just like they always do. I have seen this same disgusting scenario played out since 9/11 and I have read about the overthrow of non-cooperative leaders that happened before I was born and after I was born but not aware like I am today. We are seeing this played out in Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are book smarts, which you claim to have an abundance of, and in fact, is confirmed by your posts, but there are also street smarts. To have street smarts on this subject you would have to experience the "streets" of the former USSR states of Eastern Europe. If you traveled to those places you would instantly see the difference in the living standards, opportunities and economic benefits of the EU associated countries and places like Ukraine and Belarus.
> The masses of citizens in places like Ukraine are not very concerned about global politics, how the big banks and big business operate or even the national politics unless those politics have a direct and understandable influence on them. Very much like US citizens, they concern themselves with everyday life. Like life in America, people want what their neighbors have. They want decent food, shelter, gadgets and material things that give them a sense of happiness and success. Russia does not always offer those things to the masses. Ukrainians know it would take a very long time to meet the standards realized by their neighbors if they aligned with Russia. That is not to say there is not good living and success in Russia, there is, but we are talking about the masses.
> It would be nice if you could supplement your education with some travel to some of these places. Prices are great right now for travel to Eastern Europe.
Click to expand...



I definitely listen to what you have to say and you are more knowledgeable on certain aspects of the situation than I am but what I can say (and with a great deal of confidence) is that once you allow these parasitic  international bankers into your country? Their "loans" (which is nothing but an extension of credit) become a hammer that they can weld any time that they want. They want collateral in the form of resources and since the Ukraine has such rich farm land, Monsanto is itching to get their hands on it. They insist on austerity measures that hurt the poorest. Where the real scam comes in is when they insist that the contractors to be used for infrastructure be given to multi-national corporations that they own. "Easy credit terms" is the biggest hook ever because there is always the fine print to read. Have you ever read John Perkin's book "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man"? That was an eye opener for me and it was hard for me to really believe but I'll be damned if after I did the research going all the way back to the Dulles Brothers and the United Fruit Company and the coup that happened in Guatemala in 1954 and how they successfully put the Shah of Iran into power when PM Mossadegh was kicked out of power for nationalizing the oil of his country was I convinced that the guy was totally legit. The list is long and the coup in Chile organized by Henry Kissinger was the bloodiest and most disgusting display of the CIA's long arm. So, I guess it all comes down to picking your own poison? Great post and great information as always, Camp.


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## Dale Smith

Syriusly said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
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> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't "worship" any politician or leader. I simply say it like it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you "say it" just like Putin has commanded.
> 
> That's my favorite thing about you conspiracy cranks - you believe _anything at all_, as long as you're one of the only ones who does. It's psychological.
> 
> So now, watching conspiritards parrot the "official" Russian propaganda script can't help but make me chuckle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The problem you have is that you know nothing of our real history but rather the propaganda .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> And of course you know 'our real history'.....
> 
> Putin is just a fun loving guy who knits sweaters for hairless puppies.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that Putin was some kind of saint but he is a nationalist and he did kick out the international bankers and nationalized the bank.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well that is a good Communist move- first thing, nationalize the bank- and have it controlled by the government.
Click to expand...

 

Actually, the coining of money was to be done by the government per the Constitution. Article 1 Section 8. 
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures"


Do you know what "money" actually is? "Money" has an intrinsic value meaning that the paper receipt can be exchanged for something like silver or gold. What WE have since the international bankers were allowed to take control of the monetary system in 1913 is a debt based, fiat currency system of debt notes that creates perpetual debt. I could write for a few hours non-stop about the parasites and their tactics that have driven this country and every country with a central bank into bankruptcy and then re-organize under another name but I doubt that you would be able to grasp the magnitude of the situation. The greatest theft of all time was the gold confiscation of the people by FDR under the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC where people had to turn in their gold (real money) for pieces of paper we refer to as "Federal Reserve Notes". The term "dollar" is actually a unit of measurement....so many grains of gold or so many grains of silver. So what you are saying is that since Putin kicked out the Rothschild bank that they are returning to (snicker) "communism"???? How fucking hilarious is that? One of the ten planks of the communist manifesto is to install a central bank. It is rather chilling to me to see how many of those goals have either been fulfilled or on the verge of coming to fruition in this country because that is the ultimate goal of the banking elites....a communist, technocratic, feudalism system with only two classes...the poor and the elites. You have a lot to learn, my friend.


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## RodISHI

Syriusly said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
Click to expand...

I am glad you find it amusing. I prefer a rod of correction verses a rod of destruction whenever possible. Apparently many people do not realize that there is a difference between the two.


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## montelatici

Comrade Johnson said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> the democratically pro-Russian Ukrainian leader
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is that?
Click to expand...


Viktor Yanukovych


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## montelatici

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
Click to expand...


You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?


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## Camp

montelatici said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a former KGB street thug who dreams of bygone days and wants to reincarnate the USSR/CCCP. He is more dangerous than a Cottonmouth.
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?
Click to expand...

The recording does not back up your claim of billion of dollars or any amount being spent on paying for demonstrators or U.S. operatives organizing the coup. That claim is nothing more than Russian propaganda. You are distorting and misrepresenting the recording the same way the Russian's did.


----------



## Dale Smith

Syriusly said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
Click to expand...



"Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights".
Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.


I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.We have had no allodial rights to property since 1933 when ALL our property and sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt after USA.INC was taken into receivership  due to the orchestrated collapse of Wall Street in 1929 and the debts that were incurred thereafter. Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages. We operate under "statutory law" or as it is known as "admiralty law" also known as the Uniform Commercial Code...or as I refer to it the "Universal Commercial Code" because any country with a central bank is under admiralty law and the sureties (the people) are indentured debt slaves. Questions?


----------



## RodISHI

Dale Smith said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights".
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.We have had no allodial rights to property since 1933 when ALL our property and sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt after USA.INC was taken into receivership  due to the orchestrated collapse of Wall Street in 1929 and the debts that were incurred thereafter. Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages. We operate under "statutory law" or as it is known as "admiralty law" also known as the Uniform Commercial Code...or as I refer to it the "Universal Commercial Code" because any country with a central bank is under admiralty law and the sureties (the people) are indentured debt slaves. Questions?
Click to expand...

I doubt that will sink in for them Dale but a very good detailed explanation, thank you. Truth is hard for people to accept sometimes. 'On earth as it is in heaven'. They don't actually own the garden spot where they till the ground (their minds and bodies) until they stop descending (cross over the Jordan). They have merely been given an illusion of ownership. Try to tell that to the so called experts that believe they have it all figured out and they would call you a heretic.


----------



## Dale Smith

RodISHI said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights".
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.We have had no allodial rights to property since 1933 when ALL our property and sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt after USA.INC was taken into receivership  due to the orchestrated collapse of Wall Street in 1929 and the debts that were incurred thereafter. Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages. We operate under "statutory law" or as it is known as "admiralty law" also known as the Uniform Commercial Code...or as I refer to it the "Universal Commercial Code" because any country with a central bank is under admiralty law and the sureties (the people) are indentured debt slaves. Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt that will sink in for them Dale but a very good detailed explanation, thank you. Truth is hard for people to accept sometimes. 'On earth as it is in heaven'. They don't actually own the garden spot where they till the ground (their minds and bodies) until they stop descending (cross over the Jordan). They have merely been given an illusion of ownership. Try to tell that to the so called experts that believe they have it all figured out and they would call you a heretic.
Click to expand...


Thank you so much...always great to come across someone else that is "awake"......good on ya.


----------



## RodISHI

Dale Smith said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights".
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.We have had no allodial rights to property since 1933 when ALL our property and sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt after USA.INC was taken into receivership  due to the orchestrated collapse of Wall Street in 1929 and the debts that were incurred thereafter. Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages. We operate under "statutory law" or as it is known as "admiralty law" also known as the Uniform Commercial Code...or as I refer to it the "Universal Commercial Code" because any country with a central bank is under admiralty law and the sureties (the people) are indentured debt slaves. Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt that will sink in for them Dale but a very good detailed explanation, thank you. Truth is hard for people to accept sometimes. 'On earth as it is in heaven'. They don't actually own the garden spot where they till the ground (their minds and bodies) until they stop descending (cross over the Jordan). They have merely been given an illusion of ownership. Try to tell that to the so called experts that believe they have it all figured out and they would call you a heretic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you so much...always great to come across someone else that is "awake"......good on ya.
Click to expand...

YW, TY, the whole support and back-up team is down here. It is a matter of standing on the truth no matter how difficult things may look at the time.  Everything has a time in its season.


----------



## Dale Smith

RodISHI said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights".
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.We have had no allodial rights to property since 1933 when ALL our property and sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt after USA.INC was taken into receivership  due to the orchestrated collapse of Wall Street in 1929 and the debts that were incurred thereafter. Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages. We operate under "statutory law" or as it is known as "admiralty law" also known as the Uniform Commercial Code...or as I refer to it the "Universal Commercial Code" because any country with a central bank is under admiralty law and the sureties (the people) are indentured debt slaves. Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt that will sink in for them Dale but a very good detailed explanation, thank you. Truth is hard for people to accept sometimes. 'On earth as it is in heaven'. They don't actually own the garden spot where they till the ground (their minds and bodies) until they stop descending (cross over the Jordan). They have merely been given an illusion of ownership. Try to tell that to the so called experts that believe they have it all figured out and they would call you a heretic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you so much...always great to come across someone else that is "awake"......good on ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YW, TY, the whole support and back-up team is down here. It is a matter of standing on the truth no matter how difficult things may look at the time. BTW, an expert told me our "land is sovereign" and added, "like the vatican". Everything has a time in its season.
Click to expand...



You are more on "target" than you may realize because all roads do indeed lead to Rome.......


----------



## RodISHI

Dale Smith said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights".
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.We have had no allodial rights to property since 1933 when ALL our property and sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt after USA.INC was taken into receivership  due to the orchestrated collapse of Wall Street in 1929 and the debts that were incurred thereafter. Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages. We operate under "statutory law" or as it is known as "admiralty law" also known as the Uniform Commercial Code...or as I refer to it the "Universal Commercial Code" because any country with a central bank is under admiralty law and the sureties (the people) are indentured debt slaves. Questions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I doubt that will sink in for them Dale but a very good detailed explanation, thank you. Truth is hard for people to accept sometimes. 'On earth as it is in heaven'. They don't actually own the garden spot where they till the ground (their minds and bodies) until they stop descending (cross over the Jordan). They have merely been given an illusion of ownership. Try to tell that to the so called experts that believe they have it all figured out and they would call you a heretic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you so much...always great to come across someone else that is "awake"......good on ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YW, TY, the whole support and back-up team is down here. It is a matter of standing on the truth no matter how difficult things may look at the time. BTW, an expert told me our "land is sovereign" and added, "like the vatican". Everything has a time in its season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are more on "target" than you may realize because all roads do indeed lead to Rome.......
Click to expand...

I know. I was informed some years back "pay day is coming", well its here but not all can see it.


----------



## Dale Smith

RodISHI said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights".
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.We have had no allodial rights to property since 1933 when ALL our property and sweat equity was pledged as surety against the debt after USA.INC was taken into receivership  due to the orchestrated collapse of Wall Street in 1929 and the debts that were incurred thereafter. Prior to 1913, most Americans owned clear, allodial title to property, free and clear of any liens of mortgages. We operate under "statutory law" or as it is known as "admiralty law" also known as the Uniform Commercial Code...or as I refer to it the "Universal Commercial Code" because any country with a central bank is under admiralty law and the sureties (the people) are indentured debt slaves. Questions?
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that will sink in for them Dale but a very good detailed explanation, thank you. Truth is hard for people to accept sometimes. 'On earth as it is in heaven'. They don't actually own the garden spot where they till the ground (their minds and bodies) until they stop descending (cross over the Jordan). They have merely been given an illusion of ownership. Try to tell that to the so called experts that believe they have it all figured out and they would call you a heretic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you so much...always great to come across someone else that is "awake"......good on ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YW, TY, the whole support and back-up team is down here. It is a matter of standing on the truth no matter how difficult things may look at the time. BTW, an expert told me our "land is sovereign" and added, "like the vatican". Everything has a time in its season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are more on "target" than you may realize because all roads do indeed lead to Rome.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I was informed some years back "pay day is coming", well its here but not all can see it.
Click to expand...



Share what you know because even if some will not acknowledge it, it  is validation for them. There are not many that are willing to stand up to the scrutiny and "dog-piling" that comes with speaking out. I have so many posters here that contact me and  encourage me but they admit that they can't make the kind of arguments that I do and I am fine with that. Just the fact that they know something is really messed up but lack the ability to articulate it is fine with me. I have no problem nor any inhibitions of sharing what I have spent thousands of hours learning. The beautiful part about being educated and confident of what you know? You swat away the teeny, tiny daggers and arrows like you would a mosquito.


----------



## RodISHI

Dale Smith said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt that will sink in for them Dale but a very good detailed explanation, thank you. Truth is hard for people to accept sometimes. 'On earth as it is in heaven'. They don't actually own the garden spot where they till the ground (their minds and bodies) until they stop descending (cross over the Jordan). They have merely been given an illusion of ownership. Try to tell that to the so called experts that believe they have it all figured out and they would call you a heretic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much...always great to come across someone else that is "awake"......good on ya.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YW, TY, the whole support and back-up team is down here. It is a matter of standing on the truth no matter how difficult things may look at the time. BTW, an expert told me our "land is sovereign" and added, "like the vatican". Everything has a time in its season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are more on "target" than you may realize because all roads do indeed lead to Rome.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I was informed some years back "pay day is coming", well its here but not all can see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Share what you know because even if some will not acknowledge it, it  is validation for them. There are not many that are willing to stand up to the scrutiny and "dog-piling" that comes with speaking out. I have so many posters here that contact me and  encourage me but they admit that they can't make the kind of arguments that I do and I am fine with that. Just the fact that they know something is really messed up but lack the ability to articulate it is fine with me. I have no problem nor any inhibitions of sharing what I have spent thousands of hours learning. The beautiful part about being educated and confident of what you know? You swat away the teeny, tiny daggers and arrows like you would a mosquito.
Click to expand...

I do. I try not to argue generally with petty bs as it is their loss if they are unwilling to try to know or understand what the truth is when it is told to them and presented as it was shown to me. Truth will find them all in their time.


----------



## flacaltenn

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.



I'm not a fan of his domestic policies. Or his corruption based aristocracy. BUT -- he does provide a useful criticism of US foreign policy. And Lord knows -- we deserve some criticism on that. He's likely to save us from ourselves in pushing back some of the mistakes we would otherwise blunder into.. Like a complicated Syria intervention. Or being CONSISTENT on terrorism issues. After all, he knows Afghan and Chechnya. And is generally on the same page as far as Islamic militants. But Putin understands that a STABLE Mid-East -- is a Mid East RUN by ruthless dictators. Not by fairies and unicorns.


----------



## Dale Smith

RodISHI said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much...always great to come across someone else that is "awake"......good on ya.
> 
> 
> 
> YW, TY, the whole support and back-up team is down here. It is a matter of standing on the truth no matter how difficult things may look at the time. BTW, an expert told me our "land is sovereign" and added, "like the vatican". Everything has a time in its season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are more on "target" than you may realize because all roads do indeed lead to Rome.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. I was informed some years back "pay day is coming", well its here but not all can see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Share what you know because even if some will not acknowledge it, it  is validation for them. There are not many that are willing to stand up to the scrutiny and "dog-piling" that comes with speaking out. I have so many posters here that contact me and  encourage me but they admit that they can't make the kind of arguments that I do and I am fine with that. Just the fact that they know something is really messed up but lack the ability to articulate it is fine with me. I have no problem nor any inhibitions of sharing what I have spent thousands of hours learning. The beautiful part about being educated and confident of what you know? You swat away the teeny, tiny daggers and arrows like you would a mosquito.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do. I try not to argue generally with petty bs as it is their loss if they are unwilling to try to know or understand what the truth is when it is told to them and presented as it was shown to me. Truth will find them all in their time.
Click to expand...


Agreed, but I have to try to help and warn them so they can prepare for the shit storm that is coming...and make no mistake about it...it IS coming.


----------



## Papageorgio

Putin is a thug and I wouldn't trust him.


----------



## Eloy

Bleipriester said:


> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a gangster who controls the Russian government and ensures his position with control of the media and by murder of those who oppose him. The old KGB operative runs a kleptocracy for the purpose of enriching himself and his cronies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin made Russia great again. Something our worms don´t even try.
Click to expand...

No; Putin made Russia a threat again.


----------



## Bleipriester

Eloy said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eloy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a gangster who controls the Russian government and ensures his position with control of the media and by murder of those who oppose him. The old KGB operative runs a kleptocracy for the purpose of enriching himself and his cronies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin made Russia great again. Something our worms don´t even try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No; Putin made Russia a threat again.
Click to expand...

No, our worms declared him a threat. Its probably only over when his flag flies on the Reichstag. Our puppets are rife with wrecking balls (Merkel: "completely rounded politics").


----------



## Syriusly

Dale Smith said:


> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.W
Click to expand...


I actually enjoy being the one to point out that you are full of bullshit.

Americans win Bill of Rights cases every year- unlike Russians- who are at the mercy of the whims of Oligarchs who use thugs- and the courts- to enforce their rule.


----------



## RodISHI

Syriusly said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.W
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually enjoy being the one to point out that you are full of bullshit.
> 
> Americans win Bill of Rights cases every year- unlike Russians- who are at the mercy of the whims of Oligarchs who use thugs- and the courts- to enforce their rule.
Click to expand...

Cool I get to be "the one to point out that you are full of bullshit". The courts here can be as corrupt as any when it comes to our own bullies and if they determine a "scorch earth policy" is the route they desire to take there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.


----------



## Dale Smith

Syriusly said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.W
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually enjoy being the one to point out that you are full of bullshit.
> 
> Americans win Bill of Rights cases every year- unlike Russians- who are at the mercy of the whims of Oligarchs who use thugs- and the courts- to enforce their rule.
Click to expand...


Really? "Indefinite detention


Syriusly said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syriusly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not as up on all of this as others here and Rod of course but I am the one making this response. From what I can see he has the potential to turn Russia into a country much like the US]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well that is an amusing take on Putin.
> 
> Putin has no interest in Russia being a country like the U.S.- other than being as militarily strong.
> 
> He does not want a government that is responsive to its citizens.
> Doesn't want anything like the U.S. Consitution including the Bill of Rights.
> Nor 'free enterprise'- Russia is essentially a mafia economy- where might and money rule instead of the law and the courts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to be the one to inform you of this.....but the "Bill Of Rights" no longer apply to us and hasn't since at least 1868 when we became 14th amendment citizens.W
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I actually enjoy being the one to point out that you are full of bullshit.
> 
> Americans win Bill of Rights cases every year- unlike Russians- who are at the mercy of the whims of Oligarchs who use thugs- and the courts- to enforce their rule.
Click to expand...



Really? Are you familiar with the SCOTUS decision on March 28, 2014 that ruled by unanimous vote that the Bill of Rights is no longer made up of “Declaratory and Restrictive Clauses.” They are judicially now perceived as “privileges.”

Like I stated earlier and have said here MANY times that we don't have rights, we have privileges AND a “privilege” can be revoked for the slightest of legislative causes, but a “Right” is “forever inviolate” …and we no longer have that and it goes back to the Act of 1871 which created this corporate entity you refer to as "gubermint" and made worse with the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of March, 1933. 

Game, set AND match.......


----------



## Quentin111

I am a private person, not a politician, so I can say what I think. I think that the reason for the conflict between Russia and the Western countries is Putin's determination to break the unipolar world, where America's primacy belongs. In 2007, President Putin announced this in his Munich speech. All subsequent events - Ukraine, Syria - were a consequence of this. Now Russia is trapped - it can not return the Crimea to Ukraine because of national and military interests. Consequently, economic sanctions against Russia will act. Hence, the Russian economy will be under constant pressure.


----------



## charwin95

esthermoon said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
Click to expand...


Yeah right. He murdered his political opponents and you cannot even demonstrate to express your opposition to his government. He is no more than a rubbish thug. Did you ask how the Russians felt about Putin? Corruption at massive scale that no one can stop him and his cronies.


----------



## charwin95

yiostheoy said:


> Putin has his hands full with Ukraine at the present moment.
> 
> Trump has his hands full with N.Korea.
> 
> China is a problem both for Putin and for Trump.  They are the sleeping panda bear that nobody can trust.



That is not true bud.
China and Russia are embedded together both politically and economically. If you look at the UN agendas they always back each other against the west or US. Russia will NEVER be a close ally of US.


----------



## Dale Smith

charwin95 said:


> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah right. He murdered his political opponents and you cannot even demonstrate to express your opposition to his government. He is no more than a rubbish thug. Did you ask how the Russians felt about Putin? Corruption at massive scale that no one can stop him and his cronies.
Click to expand...


And we know that Putin had done this with what evidence? Are you saying that political opponents and dissidents are not murdered by the "Deep State" in this country? HOLY shit, they publicly murdered JFK, the alleged leader of the free world. How many people that have worked for this "gubermint" were either flat out murdered or "suicided"? How many have met death under very suspicious circumstances because they either knew too much or had something that "da gubermint" wanted? USA.INC has no moral high ground on which to stand AT all. I find it hilarious that anyone could point their gnarled little finger at some other country given the fact that THIS country is has been the hammer of the banking oligarchs that has used our military might to overthrow any leader of any country that has resources these banking oligarchs covet

You should read John Perkins book "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man", read "Major Jordan's Diary" by George Racey Jordan or "War Is A Racket" by former General Smedley Butler. The list of countries that USA.INC has raped, pillaged and plundered while using our young soldiers is beyond staggering as well as disgusting....so spare me your disdain about corruption when your beloved de-facto "gubermint" (that is owned by international bankers because it was bankrupted in 1933 and still is to this day) is BY FAR the biggest terroristic threat on the planet. It is the hammer and any country that has resources that this cabal of thieves covet that cannot fend for themselves are the "nails". What do you think Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Afghanistan was all about? Why do you think Syria and Iran are now targets? Because they haven't allowed the IMF to come into their country. Wake the fuck up.....learn, read and absorb information and use some discernment. You are so fucking brainwashed that it's almost comical.


----------



## charwin95

Dale Smith said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah right. He murdered his political opponents and you cannot even demonstrate to express your opposition to his government. He is no more than a rubbish thug. Did you ask how the Russians felt about Putin? Corruption at massive scale that no one can stop him and his cronies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And we know that Putin had done this with what evidence? Are you saying that political opponents and dissidents are not murdered by the "Deep State" in this country? HOLY shit, they publicly murdered JFK, the alleged leader of the free world. How many people that have worked for this "gubermint" were either flat out murdered or "suicided"? How many have met death under very suspicious circumstances because they either knew too much or had something that "da gubermint" wanted? USA.INC has no moral high ground on which to stand AT all. I find it hilarious that anyone could point their gnarled little finger at some other country given the fact that THIS country is has been the hammer of the banking oligarchs that has used our military might to overthrow any leader of any country that has resources these banking oligarchs covet
> 
> You should read John Perkins book "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man", read "Major Jordan's Diary" by George Racey Jordan or "War Is A Racket" by former General Smedley Butler. The list of countries that USA.INC has raped, pillaged and plundered while using our young soldiers is beyond staggering as well as disgusting....so spare me your disdain about corruption when your beloved de-facto "gubermint" (that is owned by international bankers because it was bankrupted in 1933 and still is to this day) is BY FAR the biggest terroristic threat on the planet. It is the hammer and any country that has resources that this cabal of thieves covet that cannot fend for themselves are the "nails". What do you think Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Afghanistan was all about? Why do you think Syria and Iran are now targets? Because they haven't allowed the IMF to come into their country. Wake the fuck up.....learn, read and absorb information and use some discernment. You are so fucking brainwashed that it's almost comical.
Click to expand...

 
Reading your long rebuttal------ about 3 or 5 sentences only make sense. The rest are just pure garbage fucked up conspiracy theories. Like a comedy or something. This one of the reasons I don't want to DICK with you because you are just full of bullshit and a waste of my time. 
I'm so sick of it that I don't even bother reading your whole post. 
You don't pay your tax, anti government, no driver license, no insurance ------- probably poor. Sandy hook massacre was a hoax------ Who in the world can reason to a lunatic like you? 

Consider your lucky tonight that I did not ignore your post.


----------



## esthermoon

charwin95 said:


> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah right. He murdered his political opponents and you cannot even demonstrate to express your opposition to his government. He is no more than a rubbish thug. Did you ask how the Russians felt about Putin? Corruption at massive scale that no one can stop him and his cronies.
Click to expand...

To be honest I don't know if there's some evidence he did orders to kill people but even if he did that well that's what governments do everywhere, unfortunately.
Politicians are not angels 
For what concerns what Russians think about him I read something about that and it seems many of them support him. 
Clearly you can even find Russians who are against him


----------



## Dale Smith

charwin95 said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah right. He murdered his political opponents and you cannot even demonstrate to express your opposition to his government. He is no more than a rubbish thug. Did you ask how the Russians felt about Putin? Corruption at massive scale that no one can stop him and his cronies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And we know that Putin had done this with what evidence? Are you saying that political opponents and dissidents are not murdered by the "Deep State" in this country? HOLY shit, they publicly murdered JFK, the alleged leader of the free world. How many people that have worked for this "gubermint" were either flat out murdered or "suicided"? How many have met death under very suspicious circumstances because they either knew too much or had something that "da gubermint" wanted? USA.INC has no moral high ground on which to stand AT all. I find it hilarious that anyone could point their gnarled little finger at some other country given the fact that THIS country is has been the hammer of the banking oligarchs that has used our military might to overthrow any leader of any country that has resources these banking oligarchs covet
> 
> You should read John Perkins book "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man", read "Major Jordan's Diary" by George Racey Jordan or "War Is A Racket" by former General Smedley Butler. The list of countries that USA.INC has raped, pillaged and plundered while using our young soldiers is beyond staggering as well as disgusting....so spare me your disdain about corruption when your beloved de-facto "gubermint" (that is owned by international bankers because it was bankrupted in 1933 and still is to this day) is BY FAR the biggest terroristic threat on the planet. It is the hammer and any country that has resources that this cabal of thieves covet that cannot fend for themselves are the "nails". What do you think Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Afghanistan was all about? Why do you think Syria and Iran are now targets? Because they haven't allowed the IMF to come into their country. Wake the fuck up.....learn, read and absorb information and use some discernment. You are so fucking brainwashed that it's almost comical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reading your long rebuttal------ about 3 or 5 sentences only make sense. The rest are just pure garbage fucked up conspiracy theories. Like a comedy or something. This one of the reasons I don't want to DICK with you because you are just full of bullshit and a waste of my time.
> I'm so sick of it that I don't even bother reading your whole post.
> You don't pay your tax, anti government, no driver license, no insurance ------- probably poor. Sandy hook massacre was a hoax------ Who in the world can reason to a lunatic like you?
> 
> Consider your lucky tonight that I did not ignore your post.
Click to expand...



Everything I posted is fact as sad as it may be. You don't have the faintest fucking clue about what is really going on because the programming runs just that deep. Please feel free to bypass my postings....none of your replies are fact based simply partisan bullshit. Have a great day.


----------



## xyz

Was that hockey game fake? I don't feel like wasting time watching any of it.

I'm sure it was more real than Trump's wrestling, but I meant if they let Putin score a few goals.


----------



## charwin95

esthermoon said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah right. He murdered his political opponents and you cannot even demonstrate to express your opposition to his government. He is no more than a rubbish thug. Did you ask how the Russians felt about Putin? Corruption at massive scale that no one can stop him and his cronies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To be honest I don't know if there's some evidence he did orders to kill people but even if he did that well that's what governments do everywhere, unfortunately.
> Politicians are not angels
> For what concerns what Russians think about him I read something about that and it seems many of them support him.
> Clearly you can even find Russians who are against him
Click to expand...


Actually you don't need to look further. Most or all of his political opponents are murdered, corruptions at massive scale, the poll you read favoring Putin at 85% from Russian media controlled by Putin is worthless, Russian will get arrested from demonstrations, supports terrorism.


----------



## yiostheoy

esthermoon said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> esthermoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Putin seems to be a good statesman. I read that when Soviet Union collapsed Russians spent many years with poverty and a rampant crime.
> Mr. Putin became Prime Minister in 1999 and then President of Russian Federation and after a few years Russia was a great Nation again.
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah right. He murdered his political opponents and you cannot even demonstrate to express your opposition to his government. He is no more than a rubbish thug. Did you ask how the Russians felt about Putin? Corruption at massive scale that no one can stop him and his cronies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To be honest I don't know if there's some evidence he did orders to kill people but even if he did that well that's what governments do everywhere, unfortunately.
> Politicians are not angels
> For what concerns what Russians think about him I read something about that and it seems many of them support him.
> Clearly you can even find Russians who are against him
Click to expand...

Only GHW Bush has a higher kill list than Putin.


----------



## charwin95

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.



Let me reverse the scenario.
What is there to like and love about Putin? 

He has not done any kind of contribution to humanity. He has not shown anything to stop the corruption within his government, Russians are suffering, food prices continue to soar, massive brain drain, populations declining at alarming rate, neighboring countries are nervous from Putin in invasions etc etc etc. 

On the side------- white slavery or human trafficking of Russian and Ukrainian women are very high commodities in Asian market but mostly Ukrainian women here in US.


----------



## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me reverse the scenario.
> What is there to like and love about Putin?
> 
> He has not done any kind of contribution to humanity. He has not shown anything to stop the corruption within his government, Russians are suffering, food prices continue to soar, massive brain drain, populations declining at alarming rate, neighboring countries are nervous from Putin in invasions etc etc etc.
> 
> On the side------- white slavery or human trafficking of Russian and Ukrainian women are very high commodities in Asian market but mostly Ukrainian women here in US.
Click to expand...


Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on... and see, Russians in mass are still alive. "Sufferings", "corruption", "dictatorship" - it's a bla-bla-bla for teenagers. World society don't give to Russia any other variants except fight for survival with leader or without leader. So, what would your choice in my place?


----------



## yiostheoy

Who scares you Rooskies more now?

Putin?

Trump?

Kim J.U.?


----------



## yiostheoy

charwin95 said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me reverse the scenario.
> What is there to like and love about Putin?
> 
> He has not done any kind of contribution to humanity. He has not shown anything to stop the corruption within his government, Russians are suffering, food prices continue to soar, massive brain drain, populations declining at alarming rate, neighboring countries are nervous from Putin in invasions etc etc etc.
> 
> On the side------- white slavery or human trafficking of Russian and Ukrainian women are very high commodities in Asian market but mostly Ukrainian women here in US.
Click to expand...

Putin kicked the US CIA out of west Ukraine.

That alone deserves the Order Of Lenin.


----------



## yiostheoy

esthermoon said:


> To be honest I don't know if there's some evidence he did orders to kill people but even if he did that well that's what governments do everywhere, unfortunately.
> Politicians are not angels
> For what concerns what Russians think about him I read something about that and it seems many of them support him.
> Clearly you can even find Russians who are against him


He did.  In Chechnya.  It was orchestrated by the Politburo under Yeltsin though.

Putin got the credit.  Made him a national hero.


----------



## Sbiker

yiostheoy said:


> Who scares you Rooskies more now?
> 
> Putin?
> 
> Trump?
> 
> Kim J.U.?



Not scares. Just killing. Look at most of our "european" neighbours more attentive...

And Putin, Trump and Kim JU are all just sitting in their towers from an elephant bones and don't disturb Rooskies anywhere...
If Trump of KJU would become our president and solve the Ukrainian and Baltic problem in style, Western media describing now - they would get more than 90%


----------



## yiostheoy

Sbiker said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who scares you Rooskies more now?
> 
> Putin?
> 
> Trump?
> 
> Kim J.U.?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not scares. Just killing. Look at most of our "european" neighbours more attentive...
> 
> And Putin, Trump and Kim JU are all just sitting in their towers from an elephant bones and don't disturb Rooskies anywhere...
> If Trump of KJU would become our president and solve the Ukrainian and Baltic problem in style, Western media describing now - they would get more than 90%
Click to expand...

Well Putin is definitely the smartest of those 3.

I'm surprised that Putin needs to feed his ego with fake hockey games.

I would think riding his horse would be relaxing enough.

He as become an equestrian aristocrat.  Pretty good for a poor boy raised in a one room apartment with his parents.


----------



## Muhammed

Putin = Evil left-wing genius.


----------



## Tehon

Camp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....no worries there, our lamestream media claimed that Russia had invaded the Ukraine which was a total load of bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recording does not back up your claim of billion of dollars or any amount being spent on paying for demonstrators or U.S. operatives organizing the coup. That claim is nothing more than Russian propaganda. You are distorting and misrepresenting the recording the same way the Russian's did.
Click to expand...

The US spent 5 billion dollars promoting "democracy" in Ukraine. Straight from Victoria Nuland's lips to your ears. She made it quite clear that Yanukovych had but one move to make to bring peace to his country. And that was acceptance of the Association Agreement with the EU. That is US diplomacy in action! Take the deal or you're done! The US has a long history of such events sold as "promoting democracy" that we can rehash if you wish.

You gotta love the Chevron sponsorship of the event. Very telling.


----------



## Camp

Tehon said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recording does not back up your claim of billion of dollars or any amount being spent on paying for demonstrators or U.S. operatives organizing the coup. That claim is nothing more than Russian propaganda. You are distorting and misrepresenting the recording the same way the Russian's did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US spent 5 billion dollars promoting "democracy" in Ukraine. Straight from Victoria Nuland's lips to your ears. She made it quite clear that Yanukovych had but one move to make to bring peace to his country. And that was acceptance of the Association Agreement with the EU. That is US diplomacy in action! Take the deal or you're done! The US has a long history of such events sold as "promoting democracy" that we can rehash if you wish.
> 
> You gotta love the Chevron sponsorship of the event. Very telling.
Click to expand...

There is nothing in that speech that can be construed as 5 billion dollars being used to promote the Maiden protest or coup. The only 5 billion mentioned refers to over a decade of financial assistance to Ukraine, dating back to 1991.
The video is worth watching to anyone confused about what the protest was about and why the streets of Kyiv were full of protesters making their voices heard about Yanukovich betraying the people by backing away from the agreement with the EU and making a surprising and secret deal with Russia instead, which by the way, came with a 15 billion dollar deal to support Yanukovich and the oligarchs under his control and with Russian alliances.
Are you a member of the St. Petersburg troll army?


----------



## PK1

Meathead said:


> Very different and both (Putin & Trump) fascinating men in their own right.


Yes, VERY different men.
Trump is very spontaneous with his lies & uses mediums like Twitter, while Putin is very careful with his lies and is more consistent.
BOTH men are very nationalistic, and pretend they are religious for their political sake.
BOTH men are sexist pigs.


----------



## Camp

Tehon said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is plenty of misinformation in your post. I picked this one sentence to display how inaccurate at least one factoid you present is. The article I am using as a link is from the Russian government-controlled news organization RT.  They put a big self-serving spin on why the Russian troops invaded Crimea, but the admission from Putin that Russian troops had indeed invaded Crimea is plain and confirmed by Putin himself, whatever the spin may be. Armed Russian troops were sent to Crimea before the election, which by the way, was not held under international monitoring and is still not recognized as a legitimate election by the international community, including the U.N.
> 
> www.rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recording does not back up your claim of billion of dollars or any amount being spent on paying for demonstrators or U.S. operatives organizing the coup. That claim is nothing more than Russian propaganda. You are distorting and misrepresenting the recording the same way the Russian's did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US spent 5 billion dollars promoting "democracy" in Ukraine. Straight from Victoria Nuland's lips to your ears. She made it quite clear that Yanukovych had but one move to make to bring peace to his country. And that was acceptance of the Association Agreement with the EU. That is US diplomacy in action! Take the deal or you're done! The US has a long history of such events sold as "promoting democracy" that we can rehash if you wish.
> 
> You gotta love the Chevron sponsorship of the event. Very telling.
Click to expand...

This is actually a great example of how Russia floods the internet with fake news.


----------



## PK1

Sbiker said:


> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on...


You forgot to include *Russian nazi,* the ones who support Putin for his extreme nationalism.


----------



## xyz

People arrested in Red Square for reading the Russian constitution:
At least 11 Russian activists detained on Moscow’s Red Square, says monitor

I'm sure Trump approves.


----------



## Sbiker

PK1 said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on...
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to include *Russian nazi,* the ones who support Putin for his extreme nationalism.
Click to expand...


Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...


----------



## Sbiker

xyz said:


> People arrested in Red Square for reading the Russian constitution:
> At least 11 Russian activists detained on Moscow’s Red Square, says monitor
> 
> I'm sure Trump approves.



It would be better for this "11 Russian activists" to read Russian laws first.

If I would plunder the bank in America, singing US constitution - will the US police let me run with all money?


----------



## Sbiker

Camp said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> 
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recording does not back up your claim of billion of dollars or any amount being spent on paying for demonstrators or U.S. operatives organizing the coup. That claim is nothing more than Russian propaganda. You are distorting and misrepresenting the recording the same way the Russian's did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US spent 5 billion dollars promoting "democracy" in Ukraine. Straight from Victoria Nuland's lips to your ears. She made it quite clear that Yanukovych had but one move to make to bring peace to his country. And that was acceptance of the Association Agreement with the EU. That is US diplomacy in action! Take the deal or you're done! The US has a long history of such events sold as "promoting democracy" that we can rehash if you wish.
> 
> You gotta love the Chevron sponsorship of the event. Very telling.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is actually a great example of how Russia floods the internet with fake news.
Click to expand...


You're saying it just because you cannot say something else. You also know, this news are not fake


----------



## deanrd

DarkFury said:


> *Hell I like him.*


Do you like Charles Manson?


----------



## xyz

Sbiker said:


> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...


They often behead and torture their victims. I refuse to post links, but they can be found.


----------



## Sbiker

Camp said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian soldiers in Crimea to prevent what the globalists did in the Ukraine would be appropriate IMHO but thanks for the link.
> 
> 
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recording does not back up your claim of billion of dollars or any amount being spent on paying for demonstrators or U.S. operatives organizing the coup. That claim is nothing more than Russian propaganda. You are distorting and misrepresenting the recording the same way the Russian's did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US spent 5 billion dollars promoting "democracy" in Ukraine. Straight from Victoria Nuland's lips to your ears. She made it quite clear that Yanukovych had but one move to make to bring peace to his country. And that was acceptance of the Association Agreement with the EU. That is US diplomacy in action! Take the deal or you're done! The US has a long history of such events sold as "promoting democracy" that we can rehash if you wish.
> 
> You gotta love the Chevron sponsorship of the event. Very telling.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing in that speech that can be construed as 5 billion dollars being used to promote the Maiden protest or coup. The only 5 billion mentioned refers to over a decade of financial assistance to Ukraine, dating back to 1991.
> The video is worth watching to anyone confused about what the protest was about and why the streets of Kyiv were full of protesters making their voices heard about Yanukovich betraying the people by backing away from the agreement with the EU and making a surprising and secret deal with Russia instead, which by the way, came with a 15 billion dollar deal to support Yanukovich and the oligarchs under his control and with Russian alliances.
> Are you a member of the St. Petersburg troll army?
Click to expand...


If the Ukraine regularily taking all this money - where they are? Does it mean, Ukraine is extra-corruptioned state, not able to use any money for people life building?


----------



## Sbiker

xyz said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...
> 
> 
> 
> They often behead and torture their victims. I refuse to post links, but they can be found.
Click to expand...


Because you don't have any true links. It's not your problem, you're just fully brainwashed by western media, my condolences...


----------



## xyz

Sbiker said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...
> 
> 
> 
> They often behead and torture their victims. I refuse to post links, but they can be found.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you don't have any true links. It's not your problem, you're just fully brainwashed by western media, my condolences...
Click to expand...

Because you don't have the mental or physical capacity to use a search engine, I cannot help you.


----------



## Camp

Sbiker said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can not get on board with your opinion that the globalists were responsible for the so-called coup in Kyiv. The globalists did not have the power or influence to put hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians onto the streets of the capital every day and night for months protesting the betrayal of  Victor Yanukovych and his government. The Ukrainian people wanted the prosperity they saw in their neighbors to the west, north and south, the East European countries, not to the east, Russia. They were waiting with the hope of joining the EU and when Yanukovych changed course and aligned with Russia it set the protest in motion. That is what caused the so-called coup, not some conspiracy theory about world bankers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really did not know that the 5 billion dollars spent on the coup did not pay demonstrators and that U.S. operatives organized the coup?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The recording does not back up your claim of billion of dollars or any amount being spent on paying for demonstrators or U.S. operatives organizing the coup. That claim is nothing more than Russian propaganda. You are distorting and misrepresenting the recording the same way the Russian's did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The US spent 5 billion dollars promoting "democracy" in Ukraine. Straight from Victoria Nuland's lips to your ears. She made it quite clear that Yanukovych had but one move to make to bring peace to his country. And that was acceptance of the Association Agreement with the EU. That is US diplomacy in action! Take the deal or you're done! The US has a long history of such events sold as "promoting democracy" that we can rehash if you wish.
> 
> You gotta love the Chevron sponsorship of the event. Very telling.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing in that speech that can be construed as 5 billion dollars being used to promote the Maiden protest or coup. The only 5 billion mentioned refers to over a decade of financial assistance to Ukraine, dating back to 1991.
> The video is worth watching to anyone confused about what the protest was about and why the streets of Kyiv were full of protesters making their voices heard about Yanukovich betraying the people by backing away from the agreement with the EU and making a surprising and secret deal with Russia instead, which by the way, came with a 15 billion dollar deal to support Yanukovich and the oligarchs under his control and with Russian alliances.
> Are you a member of the St. Petersburg troll army?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the Ukraine regularily taking all this money - where they are? Does it mean, Ukraine is extra-corruptioned state, not able to use any money for people life building?
Click to expand...

No more or less corrupt than other former Soviet states or Russia itself. 
Do you want data about how funds were spent since 1991? The allegation in the post I responded to was attempting to make it appear that the US spent 5 billion dollars to orchestrate the coup in Ukraine in 2014. It was a fake news story that flooded the internet. Anyone who views the posted video will quickly realize it was and is fake news.


----------



## xyz

Camp said:


> Do you want data about how funds were spent since 1991? The allegation in the post I responded to was attempting to make it appear that the US spent 5 billion dollars to orchestrate the coup in Ukraine in 2014. It was a fake news story that flooded the internet. Anyone who views the posted video will quickly realize it was and is fake news.


Although I wouldn't be surprised that Russia spends billions of US bucks for cyber warfare and disinformation.


----------



## Sbiker

xyz said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xyz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...
> 
> 
> 
> They often behead and torture their victims. I refuse to post links, but they can be found.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because you don't have any true links. It's not your problem, you're just fully brainwashed by western media, my condolences...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because you don't have the mental or physical capacity to use a search engine, I cannot help you.
Click to expand...


Do you mean, you don't want to give me links only because you think, I'm disabled? Or because I'm Russian by nationality?


----------



## Desperado

Putin is a good strong leader for his country.  He puts country above politics.
Trump is the same


----------



## Comrade Johnson

esthermoon said:


> [
> Of course he's not perfect and as a politician he even did some bad things but if I were Russian I would be grateful to him



How a former KGB officer may be perfect? Only beatiful girls may be perfect and even they have some drawbacks


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Sbiker said:


> Do you mean, you don't want to give me links only because you think, I'm disabled? Or because I'm Russian by nationality?



What it has to do with nationality?  A lot of people write about things they haven't any clue about like you  They may be Americans, Jews, or Italians


----------



## Comrade Johnson

It seems that Americans thought of Putin better 10 years ago. Now there's a lot of very negative opinions.


----------



## Comrade Johnson

One thing is for sure - the guy on the right is a real mobster


----------



## Comrade Johnson

montelatici said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> 
> the democratically pro-Russian Ukrainian leader
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Viktor Yanukovych
Click to expand...


A second-hand thief with two criminal records


----------



## RodISHI

Comrade Johnson said:


> One thing is for sure - the guy on the right is a real mobster


A ton of those throughout the world at the moment.


----------



## there4eyeM

Putting country over everything (über alles) is the only principle of some otherwise unprincipled people. History's examples have been ugly.


----------



## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me reverse the scenario.
> What is there to like and love about Putin?
> 
> He has not done any kind of contribution to humanity. He has not shown anything to stop the corruption within his government, Russians are suffering, food prices continue to soar, massive brain drain, populations declining at alarming rate, neighboring countries are nervous from Putin in invasions etc etc etc.
> 
> On the side------- white slavery or human trafficking of Russian and Ukrainian women are very high commodities in Asian market but mostly Ukrainian women here in US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on... and see, Russians in mass are still alive. "Sufferings", "corruption", "dictatorship" - it's a bla-bla-bla for teenagers. World society don't give to Russia any other variants except fight for survival with leader or without leader. So, what would your choice in my place?
Click to expand...


You should blame the leader of your country. Also ask your neighboring countries why they are so nervous of Putin invasions that beg west for more protections.  Ask your fellow comrade why they can't even have a demonstration against corruption like in March 27, 2017. 

I'm not aware of European, Ukrainian or Baltic Nazi. Can you provide me a link? 

So back to my original question. What is Putin or Russia's contribution to humanity? Aside from bombing civilians in Aleppo,Syria.


----------



## charwin95

yiostheoy said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me reverse the scenario.
> What is there to like and love about Putin?
> 
> He has not done any kind of contribution to humanity. He has not shown anything to stop the corruption within his government, Russians are suffering, food prices continue to soar, massive brain drain, populations declining at alarming rate, neighboring countries are nervous from Putin in invasions etc etc etc.
> 
> On the side------- white slavery or human trafficking of Russian and Ukrainian women are very high commodities in Asian market but mostly Ukrainian women here in US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putin kicked the US CIA out of west Ukraine.
> 
> That alone deserves the Order Of Lenin.
Click to expand...


Obama slap Putin with crippling economic sanctions, install missile system called EIS in Redzikovo, Poland  and Deveselu, Romania next to Putin's ass. June 2016 largest US military exercises called anaconda with over 30k+ troops with the participations from several countries next to Putin nose----------  Obama is not a pussy after all. Anything else bud?


----------



## charwin95

Desperado said:


> Putin is a good strong leader for his country.  He puts country above politics.
> Trump is the same



Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer. 
Be very careful how you make the similarities.


----------



## charwin95

Comrade Johnson said:


> It seems that Americans thought of Putin better 10 years ago. Now there's a lot of very negative opinions.



That is why I'm asking the same question.
What if or there is anything to be like or love of Putin?
My question is very simple.


----------



## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean, you don't want to give me links only because you think, I'm disabled? Or because I'm Russian by nationality?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What it has to do with nationality?  A lot of people write about things they haven't any clue about like you  They may be Americans, Jews, or Italians
Click to expand...


It's your and my opinion. But what about his position? What is the reason for him not to prove his words? Especially, if we believe him, he has a lot of proof links?


----------



## Sbiker

there4eyeM said:


> Putting country over everything (über alles) is the only principle of some otherwise unprincipled people. History's examples have been ugly.



Yeah, on of examples was not so long ago... Yanukovich neglects of interest of his country for the abstract "humanism" and "civilization"... What was next?


----------



## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a good strong leader for his country.  He puts country above politics.
> Trump is the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer.
> Be very careful how you make the similarities.
Click to expand...


I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?


----------



## Tehon

Camp said:


> The only 5 billion mentioned refers to over a decade of financial assistance to Ukraine, dating back to 1991.


The financial assistance was used to help Ukrainians achieve their "European aspirations". Straight from Nulands mouth, speaking in front of a NGO  who's stated purpose is to bring Ukraine into the US orbit. What were those protests called again? Euromaidan? It's just coincidence right?



Camp said:


> Are you a member of the St. Petersburg troll army?


I'm just an average American citizen wondering what all the fuss is about regarding alleged Russian interference in our electoral process when it is quite clear from the above video we don't respect the same in other countries.


----------



## Tehon

Camp said:


> This is actually a great example of how Russia floods the internet with fake news.


It is not fake news. It happened. There is video evidence of it happening. It is only up to interpretation what it all meant. But surely it isn't fake.


----------



## PK1

Sbiker said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on...
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to include *Russian nazi,* the ones who support Putin for his extreme nationalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...
Click to expand...

You pretend to not know about Russian nazis who behead "enemies" because they are not ethnic Russian??
 Never heard of "Russian National Unity" (Русское Национальное Единство)?

In 2007, Russia had _"an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total."_
'Explosions, Murders': Russian Neo-Nazism


----------



## PK1

Sbiker said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on...
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to include *Russian nazi,* the ones who support Putin for his extreme nationalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...
Click to expand...

"Russian National Unity" (Русское Национальное Единство):


In 2007, Russia had _"an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total."_


----------



## PK1

Comrade Johnson said:


> One thing is for sure - the guy on the right is a real mobster


Yes, he became *Putin's dog* to keep Putin's enemies "away". He's likely responsible for Nemtsov's assasination. Why? MONEY & independence ...
*Ramzan Kadyrov* is the Head of the Chechen Republic and a former member of the Chechen independence movement.
The Kadyrov clan defected to the Moscow side at the beginning of the Second Chechen War in 1999. Since then, Kadyrov led his militia with support from *Russia's FSB** state security service*.


----------



## deanrd

Putin is a thug, a murderer, a liar, an authoritarian and a racist.  This is why Republicans find him so fascinating and consider him a "friend".


----------



## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me reverse the scenario.
> What is there to like and love about Putin?
> 
> He has not done any kind of contribution to humanity. He has not shown anything to stop the corruption within his government, Russians are suffering, food prices continue to soar, massive brain drain, populations declining at alarming rate, neighboring countries are nervous from Putin in invasions etc etc etc.
> 
> On the side------- white slavery or human trafficking of Russian and Ukrainian women are very high commodities in Asian market but mostly Ukrainian women here in US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on... and see, Russians in mass are still alive. "Sufferings", "corruption", "dictatorship" - it's a bla-bla-bla for teenagers. World society don't give to Russia any other variants except fight for survival with leader or without leader. So, what would your choice in my place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should blame the leader of your country.
Click to expand...


It's a strange thing. Putin - "a dictator" - don't talk me, what to do... You, a representative of "free society" in every message write me "you should", "you must"... Absolutely don't know, what is really happening here, at opposite side of planet. What's strange, I'm voting for freedom  from Putin, instead of yours "freedom" where I must to do what you want and to think what you want...



> Also ask your neighboring countries why they are so nervous



Asking. Belorussia not so nervious. Kazahstan - not. China - offcourse not. Even North Korea nervious of Trump, not of Putin... So what? 



> of Putin invasions



Lies. Show me Russian tanks in Baltic countries, or at Ukraine...  Do you really hidden ultra-communist, justifying the all crimes, performed by Communism?



> that beg west for more protections.



They beg wet for more money to upkeep their corruption ultra-nazi regimes... Money of your taxpayers.

I'm not aware of European, Ukrainian or Baltic Nazi. Can you provide me a link?


Probably, you're not aware of them, hiddenly hoping, this guys should decrease "non-white" population of this world... 



> So back to my original question. What is Putin or Russia's contribution to humanity? Aside from bombing civilians in Aleppo,Syria.



Bombing civilians - a serious crime. Do you have PROOFS, there were a civilians? Especially after murdering a baby in front of camera by actors, falsificated "chemical attack of Assad against civilians"?

White Helmets Video: Swedish Doctors for Human Rights Denounce Medical Malpractice and ‘Misuse’ of Children for Propaganda Aims


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## Sbiker

PK1 said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on...
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to include *Russian nazi,* the ones who support Putin for his extreme nationalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You pretend to not know about Russian nazis who behead "enemies" because they are not ethnic Russian??
> Never heard of "Russian National Unity" (Русское Национальное Единство)?
> 
> In 2007, Russia had _"an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total."_
> 'Explosions, Murders': Russian Neo-Nazism
Click to expand...


Offcourse, I've heared - and what? It's forbidden organization in Russia, instead of Ukraine...


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## PK1

Sbiker said:


> PK1 said:
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> Sbiker said:
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> PK1 said:
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> 
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> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on...
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot to include *Russian nazi,* the ones who support Putin for his extreme nationalism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russian nazi, if they exist, don't burn people alive, like in Odessa...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You pretend to not know about Russian nazis who behead "enemies" because they are not ethnic Russian??
> Never heard of "Russian National Unity" (Русское Национальное Единство)?
> 
> In 2007, Russia had _"an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total."_
> 'Explosions, Murders': Russian Neo-Nazism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Offcourse, I've heared - and what? It's forbidden organization in Russia, instead of Ukraine...
Click to expand...

LOL. Only forbidden to call themselves. "nazi"?  
*They act like fascists in Putin's Russia.*

Some 150 representatives of far-right parties across Europe have been meeting in Russia to co-ordinate policy
Europe far-right parties meet in St Petersburg, Russia - BBC News


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## xyz




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## Sbiker

Guys, if your illusions sometimes would become a truth, it would be excellent instead of Putin's weak, peaceful politics... But, interesting, I don't see at this photo any RUSSIAN symbolics... It's just a puppets, working on Western media to zombify you in right direction... How many, you said, of them? Decades and hundreds of thousands? Why not millions? Your ideological teacher Gebbels, as I remember, advised you to lie more impudently for the best effects....))


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## xyz

Sbiker said:


> Guys, if your illusions sometimes would become a truth, it would be excellent instead of Putin's weak, peaceful politics... But, interesting, I don't see at this photo any RUSSIAN symbolics... It's just a puppets, working on Western media to zombify you in right direction... How many, you said, of them? Decades and hundreds of thousands? Why not millions? Your ideological teacher Gebbels, as I remember, advised you to lie more impudently for the best effects....))


Russian imperial flag. You obviously know nothing about Russian history.


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## Sbiker

xyz said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guys, if your illusions sometimes would become a truth, it would be excellent instead of Putin's weak, peaceful politics... But, interesting, I don't see at this photo any RUSSIAN symbolics... It's just a puppets, working on Western media to zombify you in right direction... How many, you said, of them? Decades and hundreds of thousands? Why not millions? Your ideological teacher Gebbels, as I remember, advised you to lie more impudently for the best effects....))
> 
> 
> 
> Russian imperial flag. You obviously know nothing about Russian history.
Click to expand...


No. It's just a flag of Romanov's dynasty - previously of their German branch. So, RUSSIA don't need of any symbols of loser Germany... Plug this colours to ass of "Kirillovichi" - a gang of swindlers, claimed themself as "successors of throne" - they would be looks good together...


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## Eugene

xyz said:


>


These photos are 7 or 8 years old. 6 years ago nazi symbolically were officially forbidden. 
If you post such old photos and blame today's authorities why cannot I blame the US in racism and mass killings of Indians?


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## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a good strong leader for his country.  He puts country above politics.
> Trump is the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer.
> Be very careful how you make the similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?
Click to expand...


Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.


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## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Sbiker said:
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> 
> 
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> charwin95 said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a good strong leader for his country.  He puts country above politics.
> Trump is the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer.
> Be very careful how you make the similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.
Click to expand...


Was Napoleon corrupted?


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## Correll

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.




Nationalist looking out for Russia and russians as he sees fit, in the tradition of russian strongmen.

HIs ideology seems to be ethnic nationalism.


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## Eugene

Correll said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nationalist looking out for Russia and russians as he sees fit, in the tradition of russian strongmen.
> 
> HIs ideology seems to be ethnic nationalism.
Click to expand...

I'd rather call it not ethnic nationalism but protection and caring of Russia's interests. 
Because ethnic nationalism would be nonsense in country with more than 200 nations... pay attention there are some regions where Russians are less than 10%, I mean Caucuses, though those regions are the most loyal.


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## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
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> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
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> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a good strong leader for his country.  He puts country above politics.
> Trump is the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer.
> Be very careful how you make the similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was Napoleon corrupted?
Click to expand...


From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not? 
Give me something else.


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## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
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> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
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> 
> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a good strong leader for his country.  He puts country above politics.
> Trump is the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer.
> Be very careful how you make the similarities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was Napoleon corrupted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not?
> Give me something else.
Click to expand...


Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.

Wanna else? Ok. Stalin


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## Eugene

Sbiker said:


> Stalin


Ha! He had nothing himself. Was very ascetic. Ruling the country and building the industry was everything he was interested in. All his relatives were poor. 
Stalin and corruption are opposite poles.


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## Comrade Johnson

Eugene said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin and corruption are opposite poles.
Click to expand...


The most funny thing I ever heard . Stalin's stooges were robbing the country from dusk to dawn. You couldn't buy anything in shops so corruption was the center of the system.


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## Sbiker

Comrade Johnson said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin and corruption are opposite poles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The most funny thing I ever heard . Stalin's stooges were robbing the country from dusk to dawn. You couldn't buy anything in shops so corruption was the center of the system.
Click to expand...


You made one mistake in you speech. It must be "Gorbachev" instead of "Stalin" 

I've asked a lot people around me, born before war and after... Almost all things, you tell here, were in Khrushev time. But very massive Khrushev's propaganda distorted mind of people - it's really terrible. Many people truly "remember the horror of Stalin's time" till you compare their stories with a real dates! 

Cancelling of privacy and homestead farms (with a real hunger) - Khrushev! Falling USSR to outstanding economy crysis, disguised by money reform - Khrushev! Provocating riots and suppression with s seious blood - Khrushev, in Novocherkassk. Amnesty of a lot of experienced criminals, highly increasing crime level all over USSR - KHRUSHEV!!! Just look at calendar! Just read official documents!


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## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
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> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
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> Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer.
> Be very careful how you make the similarities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was Napoleon corrupted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not?
> Give me something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.
> 
> Wanna else? Ok. Stalin
Click to expand...


A dictators or rulers like Stalin cannot be proven corrupt or not because they rule the country------ so it's hard to proved without check and balance. But Communism and dictatorship are probably that most corrupt form of government.


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## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
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> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
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> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was Napoleon corrupted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not?
> Give me something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.
> 
> Wanna else? Ok. Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A dictators or rulers like Stalin cannot be proven corrupt or not because they rule the country------ so it's hard to proved without check and balance.
> Communism is p
Click to expand...


You can do it after their death. Stalin had nothing...

What is corruption? Corruption is using power of authority to reach targets, non-coordinated with targets of authority. True dictator DEFINES targets for authority. So, he cannot be corrupted. It's a simple logic, like 2+2, and it's a small step to reduce media zombifying and having own opinion.

P.S. I've read definition of corruption in wiki... In according with it EVERY politician is corrupted, just because he has a salary. But if every politician is corrupted, why do we have to use this term in general?


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## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
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> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
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> Sbiker said:
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> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was Napoleon corrupted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not?
> Give me something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.
> 
> Wanna else? Ok. Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A dictators or rulers like Stalin cannot be proven corrupt or not because they rule the country------ so it's hard to proved without check and balance.
> Communism is p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. You can do it after their death. Stalin had nothing...
> 
> 2. What is corruption? Corruption is using power of authority to reach targets, non-coordinated with targets of authority. True dictator DEFINES targets for authority. So, he cannot be corrupted. It's a simple logic, like 2+2, and it's a small step to reduce media zombifying and having own opinion.
> 
> 3. P.S. I've read definition of corruption in wiki... In according with it EVERY politician is corrupted, just because he has a salary. But if every politician is corrupted, why do we have to use this term in general?
Click to expand...


I pressed send prematurely so I redid my post. 

1. Communism is no better than Hitler dictatorship.
2 & 3. A good example are Abacha, Duvalier, Marcos, Suharto, Seko, ------ Putin ----------  Etc Etc Etc


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## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
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> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
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> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me reverse the scenario.
> What is there to like and love about Putin?
> 
> He has not done any kind of contribution to humanity. He has not shown anything to stop the corruption within his government, Russians are suffering, food prices continue to soar, massive brain drain, populations declining at alarming rate, neighboring countries are nervous from Putin in invasions etc etc etc.
> 
> On the side------- white slavery or human trafficking of Russian and Ukrainian women are very high commodities in Asian market but mostly Ukrainian women here in US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Listen the declarations of european nazi of any sorts, Baltic nazi, Ukrainian nazi and so on... and see, Russians in mass are still alive. "Sufferings", "corruption", "dictatorship" - it's a bla-bla-bla for teenagers. World society don't give to Russia any other variants except fight for survival with leader or without leader. So, what would your choice in my place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should blame the leader of your country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a strange thing. Putin - "a dictator" - don't talk me, what to do... You, a representative of "free society" in every message write me "you should", "you must"... Absolutely don't know, what is really happening here, at opposite side of planet. What's strange, I'm voting for freedom  from Putin, instead of yours "freedom" where I must to do what you want and to think what you want...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also ask your neighboring countries why they are so nervous
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Asking. Belorussia not so nervious. Kazahstan - not. China - offcourse not. Even North Korea nervious of Trump, not of Putin... So what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of Putin invasions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lies. Show me Russian tanks in Baltic countries, or at Ukraine...  Do you really hidden ultra-communist, justifying the all crimes, performed by Communism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that beg west for more protections.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They beg wet for more money to upkeep their corruption ultra-nazi regimes... Money of your taxpayers.
> 
> I'm not aware of European, Ukrainian or Baltic Nazi. Can you provide me a link?
> 
> 
> Probably, you're not aware of them, hiddenly hoping, this guys should decrease "non-white" population of this world...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So back to my original question. What is Putin or Russia's contribution to humanity? Aside from bombing civilians in Aleppo,Syria.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bombing civilians - a serious crime. Do you have PROOFS, there were a civilians? Especially after murdering a baby in front of camera by actors, falsificated "chemical attack of Assad against civilians"?
> 
> White Helmets Video: Swedish Doctors for Human Rights Denounce Medical Malpractice and ‘Misuse’ of Children for Propaganda Aims
Click to expand...


You have multi quotes so I have to sent my rebuttal this way. 

As far as I know I have a freedom of speech, press, religion, gathering, assembly etc etc. In Russia you get arrested just by expressing your freedom of speech against corruption. You also get arrested or round up just by being a gay. 

North Korea better be nervous. But Putin neighbors (with S) are scared from Putin invasions. 
Lies? So why are Putin neighbors asking for protections from the west? Why are they stepping away from Putin sides? -------------  It will be like I'm calling the police for protection because I'm scared of my neighbor Putin. US has lots and lots of friends-------- Putin has Iran, Syria, China and some few countries.  Are you sure there are no Russian tanks in Ukraine? 

Proof of Putin thug killing civilians? They should charge Putin and Assad of war crimes. 
Russia/Syria: War Crimes in Month of Bombing Aleppo
As far as the chemical attacks ------- We blamed  this on Assad. 

So back to my original question----- What is Putin contributions to humanity?


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## charwin95

Eugene said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! He had nothing himself. Was very ascetic. Ruling the country and building the industry was everything he was interested in. All his relatives were poor.
> Stalin and corruption are opposite poles.
Click to expand...


Are you sure comrade?


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## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
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> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin is a corrupt, authoritarian leader and murderer.
> Be very careful how you make the similarities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very sorry, but how authoritatian leader can be corrupt? People either solve power for money, either buy, but doing it simultaneously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tell me who or give me an example of a leader that are authoritarian------ that is not corrupt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Was Napoleon corrupted?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not?
> Give me something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.
> 
> Wanna else? Ok. Stalin
Click to expand...


Napoleon 17th century----------- My error I was thinking of Georg Niebuhr.


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## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> You have multi quotes so I have to sent my rebuttal this way.
> 
> As far as I know I have a freedom of speech, press, religion, gathering, assembly etc etc. In Russia you get arrested just by expressing your freedom of speech against corruption. You also get arrested or round up just by being a gay.


Let me answer as a person living in Russia. 
I have absolute freedom to speak whatever I think about anything. Those who don't like Putin and his policy a free to speak about it...in kitchen talks, in mass media anywhere. 
Press. We have numerous media resources freely showing their disagreement to Putin. We have here free of payment foreign tv-channels (if you wish I may make a photo of my tv screen to prove my words)
Assembly or meeting are not forbidden but if talking about mass meetings it should be approved by local authorities beforehand. That rule take place in almost every country in the world. 
Religion. Absolute freedom. We have here a lot of muslims, buddists and non-orthodox christians have their own churches as well - there is catholic one not far from my home. 
Arrests for taking part in meetings happen only when one violates the law: either meeting was not allowed or there were some criminal violations against police, other people or some property. 
Gays are not forbidden and not being arrested. But propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. As for me I would catch homosexuals and place them into special clinics - them is a disease, affront of human nature and religion values. 

So, all those statements you posted about Russia is absolute lie. If you don't believe me I can even invite you to visit me and to see the real picture yourself.


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## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> North Korea better be nervous. But Putin neighbors (with S) are scared from Putin invasions.
> Lies? So why are Putin neighbors asking for protections from the west? Why are they stepping away from Putin sides? -------------  It will be like I'm calling the police for protection because I'm scared of my neighbor Putin. US has lots and lots of friends-------- Putin has Iran, Syria, China and some few countries.  Are you sure there are no Russian tanks in Ukraine?


Putin neighbors...do you mean TriBaltics? All they do is looking for a piece of meat from their master and to get it they loudly cry about Russian threat. NATO was created against the USSR. USSR is over for 25 years but NATO still exists. There were many words about it from Europe. But the USA needs NATO do they have to show a picture that NATO is necessary. 
NATO works for globalist's benefit. They occupy a country set loyal government and take control over territory. But recently the only thing they bring is chaos and deaths - Middle East, Ukraine...
What kind of friends does the USA have? They are controlled by the USA and depend from them. USA has more than 800 military bases abroad- that is the reason of such a quantity of your friends. 
Russia has only 2. How do you think how many friends would Russia have if we had 100 bases? 200? 800?

As for Ukraine. 
I escaped from Ukraine in 2014. I left my business and house there. 
Eastern Ukraine was the territory where old Russian tanks kept, those from Eastern Europe. Huge number of them. 
Have anyone seen modern tanks in Ukraine? No! Just old T-72, 30-50 years old. 
USA can see every inch by satellite why cannot they show Russian army in Ukraine?
Thanks god Russia helps Ukraine by military consultants and many Russian volunteers came to Ukraine. Because Ukrainians exist just 100 years, in fact they are Russians and almost every family in Ukraine has relatives in Russia.


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## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> Proof of Putin thug killing civilians? They should charge Putin and Assad of war crimes.
> Russia/Syria: War Crimes in Month of Bombing Aleppo
> As far as the chemical attacks ------- We blamed  this on Assad.



Why shouldn't they charge USA and NATO authorities of war crimes?
ISIS was created by CIA. Rebels supported by USA ate heart of Syrian officer, beheaded 10-years old boy...want to see that video?
Why were so many hysterical articles about Aleppo and almost nothing about Mosul? The only difference is that Aleppo was freed by Syria & Russia while Mosul is freed by Iraq & NATO. 
It shows how western propaganda works!
It also proves that in Aleppo West wanted to protect someone fighting on terrorists' side. 

Chemicals in Syria? Wait...wasn't it USA who had to eliminate all Assad's chemical weapons in 2013?
Ok. There are many questions about was there chemical attack or not - video posted by WhiteHelmets have a lot of mistakes proving that it was fake (no gloves and masks, wrong treatments, etc)

Western lie about Syria is based on 2 sources: WhiteHelmets who are considered to be terrorists and 1-person organization placed in London SOHR. 

So, try to understand who is war crimes?
Those who create war and chaos or those who are widely blamed in mass media?


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## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> So back to my original question----- What is Putin contributions to humanity?


In short:
He made Russia wealthy country and is going on building of industry, infrastructure here. 
He stopped criminal in Russia. 
He stopped war in Chechnya, he prevented war between Azerbaijan and Armenia, he saved piece for people in Crimea. 
He stopped dangerous domination of the USA in Middle East which may lead to settling of Shariat law in every Arabic country as they ally Saudi and Qatar wish. 
For me personally he saved my life, my wife's and 2 my sons. 

Would it be enough for you on my place?


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## tycho1572

I wouldn't trust Putin any more than I would Hillary.


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## tycho1572

It's why I'm glad Trump won.


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## miketx

Never met him.


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> Ha! He had nothing himself. Was very ascetic. Ruling the country and building the industry was everything he was interested in. All his relatives were poor.
> Stalin and corruption are opposite poles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure comrade?
Click to expand...

As for Stalin, yes, i am absolutely sure!

He came to the power in 1924. 
USSR by that moment was:
Ruined agreecultural country burnt by civil war all over its territory. No specialists in any spheres- some were killed, some ran abroad some were afraid to show their education and knowledge. No industry at all. No science. 
All the world is enemy. 
By 1941 most of the population is educated well enough. At least 90% could read and count which allowed them to work at factories. Schools and universities all over the country. Scientists and engineers- some are new educated some came back to Russia. Army is strong enough. 
He won Germany in ww2 and freed Europe. While fighting industry was moved from western to eastern and central parts of the USSR - more than 3000 miles. 
After the war country is bombed and burnt totally. No help from anywhere but the USA threatens, starting Cold War, invading in Korea who asks for help. China ruined by Japanese askes for help and gets it as well. 
By 1953 the USSR is built industry is at top world level, science, education is ok. Space, nuclear achievements etc. 

I do confess there were a lot of things I cannot agree to. But I greatly doubt it was possible to get all those achievements without such a strict way of ruling the country. 

Stalin was not angel but he was not pure evil as Khrushchev's propaganda said. And Khrushchev himself was far from being so clear.


----------



## montelatici

tycho1572 said:


> It's why I'm glad Trump won.



That's why you are a moron.


----------



## Eugene

Comrade Johnson said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> Stalin and corruption are opposite poles.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The most funny thing I ever heard . Stalin's stooges were robbing the country from dusk to dawn. You couldn't buy anything in shops so corruption was the center of the system.
Click to expand...

Simply think of period when Stalin was ruling. It's 1924-1953. 
And try to check the history (a subject you know nothing about) how did the USSR look at that time. 
Compare descriptions of the country in 1924 and in 1940; in 1945 and in 1953. 
Create a list of achievements of the USSR from 1924 till 1953. 
And even the most stupid moron will realize and will have to confess that Stalin was a great leader who had done a lot for the USSR. 

Of course it doesn't mean that I justify his crimes. But that were crimes not more or less than those by any leaders of that time in other countries.


----------



## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was Napoleon corrupted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not?
> Give me something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.
> 
> Wanna else? Ok. Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A dictators or rulers like Stalin cannot be proven corrupt or not because they rule the country------ so it's hard to proved without check and balance.
> Communism is p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. You can do it after their death. Stalin had nothing...
> 
> 2. What is corruption? Corruption is using power of authority to reach targets, non-coordinated with targets of authority. True dictator DEFINES targets for authority. So, he cannot be corrupted. It's a simple logic, like 2+2, and it's a small step to reduce media zombifying and having own opinion.
> 
> 3. P.S. I've read definition of corruption in wiki... In according with it EVERY politician is corrupted, just because he has a salary. But if every politician is corrupted, why do we have to use this term in general?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pressed send prematurely so I redid my post.
> 
> 1. Communism is no better than Hitler dictatorship.
Click to expand...


You didn't touch both. Hitler's invasion murdered some of my relatives. Communism not. 

Welfare state, so good for you - is just an answer for Communism. Without it, you could have capitalism in Jack London style and much more furious.

Do you know, why your propaganda dislike communism? Because it MORE EFFECTIVE economically. Look at China and Vietnam and compare dynamics with US economics...


----------



## Igrok_

yiostheoy said:


> Who scares you Rooskies more now?
> 
> Putin?
> 
> Trump?
> 
> Kim J.U.?


Nobody.


----------



## deanrd

We know what Republicans think of Putin.

They love him.
They admire him.
They want our leaders to be like him.


----------



## PK1

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is Putin contributions to humanity?
> 
> 
> 
> For me personally he saved my life, my wife's and 2 my sons.
Click to expand...

You appear to have an interesting story! Previously, you mentioned that you escaped from Ukraine in 2014 and left your business and house there. 
Where was that, in eastern Ukraine?

Why did you need to escape?
How did Putin save your family's lives?


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have multi quotes so I have to sent my rebuttal this way.
> 
> As far as I know I have a freedom of speech, press, religion, gathering, assembly etc etc. In Russia you get arrested just by expressing your freedom of speech against corruption. You also get arrested or round up just by being a gay.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me answer as a person living in Russia.
> I have absolute freedom to speak whatever I think about anything. Those who don't like Putin and his policy a free to speak about it...in kitchen talks, in mass media anywhere.
> Press. We have numerous media resources freely showing their disagreement to Putin. We have here free of payment foreign tv-channels (if you wish I may make a photo of my tv screen to prove my words)
> Assembly or meeting are not forbidden but if talking about mass meetings it should be approved by local authorities beforehand. That rule take place in almost every country in the world.
> Religion. Absolute freedom. We have here a lot of muslims, buddists and non-orthodox christians have their own churches as well - there is catholic one not far from my home.
> Arrests for taking part in meetings happen only when one violates the law: either meeting was not allowed or there were some criminal violations against police, other people or some property.
> Gays are not forbidden and not being arrested. But propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. As for me I would catch homosexuals and place them into special clinics - them is a disease, affront of human nature and religion values.
> 
> So, all those statements you posted about Russia is absolute lie. If you don't believe me I can even invite you to visit me and to see the real picture yourself.
Click to expand...


I know lots of Russians that live here and wants to kill putin. You are not being honest. 
1. So why are people get arrested when they demonstrating peacefully?
2. Freedom of speak in your kitchen but not freedom as you publish your opinion to the public.
3. Your media are in total control by Putin and his cronies. 
4. Didn't they just had a demonstration against corruption but they arrested all the leaders?  
5. Give me one example that non Russian like me would consider Putin a nice guy. 
6. Why political opponents are being murdered? 
7.  They are rounding up gays and lesbians. 

Those are facts.


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> North Korea better be nervous. But Putin neighbors (with S) are scared from Putin invasions.
> Lies? So why are Putin neighbors asking for protections from the west? Why are they stepping away from Putin sides? -------------  It will be like I'm calling the police for protection because I'm scared of my neighbor Putin. US has lots and lots of friends-------- Putin has Iran, Syria, China and some few countries.  Are you sure there are no Russian tanks in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> Putin neighbors...do you mean TriBaltics? All they do is looking for a piece of meat from their master and to get it they loudly cry about Russian threat. NATO was created against the USSR. USSR is over for 25 years but NATO still exists. There were many words about it from Europe. But the USA needs NATO do they have to show a picture that NATO is necessary.
> NATO works for globalist's benefit. They occupy a country set loyal government and take control over territory. But recently the only thing they bring is chaos and deaths - Middle East, Ukraine...
> What kind of friends does the USA have? They are controlled by the USA and depend from them. USA has more than 800 military bases abroad- that is the reason of such a quantity of your friends.
> Russia has only 2. How do you think how many friends would Russia have if we had 100 bases? 200? 800?
> 
> As for Ukraine.
> I escaped from Ukraine in 2014. I left my business and house there.
> Eastern Ukraine was the territory where old Russian tanks kept, those from Eastern Europe. Huge number of them.
> Have anyone seen modern tanks in Ukraine? No! Just old T-72, 30-50 years old.
> USA can see every inch by satellite why cannot they show Russian army in Ukraine?
> Thanks god Russia helps Ukraine by military consultants and many Russian volunteers came to Ukraine. Because Ukrainians exist just 100 years, in fact they are Russians and almost every family in Ukraine has relatives in Russia.
Click to expand...


As far as the number of US friends I cannot help you. And I don't see Putin gaining more allies soon.
Sorry to hear about your business in Ukraine. So who is training the sophisticated Russian anti aircraft separatists in Ukraine?


----------



## Ima Cat

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.



All I know is he invited a crippled girl to sit next to him at the Sochi olympics, at a hockey game.  The rest of what we're fed is internally directed propaganda designed to demonize him, in line with the DC War Party's doctrine.  They--the CIA's disinformation service as parroted by our MSM, treat us like mushrooms--they keep us in the dark and feed us shit.


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of Putin thug killing civilians? They should charge Putin and Assad of war crimes.
> Russia/Syria: War Crimes in Month of Bombing Aleppo
> As far as the chemical attacks ------- We blamed  this on Assad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Why shouldn't they charge USA and NATO authorities of war crimes?
> 2.  ISIS was created by CIA. Rebels supported by USA ate heart of Syrian officer, beheaded 10-years old boy...want to see that video?
> 3.  Why were so many hysterical articles about Aleppo and almost nothing about Mosul? The only difference is that Aleppo was freed by Syria & Russia while Mosul is freed by Iraq & NATO.
> It shows how western propaganda works!
> It also proves that in Aleppo West wanted to protect someone fighting on terrorists' side.
> 
> 4.  Chemicals in Syria? Wait...wasn't it USA who had to eliminate all Assad's chemical weapons in 2013?
> Ok. There are many questions about was there chemical attack or not - video posted by WhiteHelmets have a lot of mistakes proving that it was fake (no gloves and masks, wrong treatments, etc)
> 
> 5. Western lie about Syria is based on 2 sources: WhiteHelmets who are considered to be terrorists and 1-person organization placed in London SOHR.
> 
> 6.  So, try to understand who is war crimes?
> Those who create war and chaos or those who are widely blamed in mass media?
Click to expand...


You post like Glasnost. 

1. Charge USA and NATO why?
2. US created by ISIS------ Proved it. I dont need to see any videos bcoz I've seen both that cannot be corroborated which sides. 
3. Aleppo and Mosul you are confused or dishonest.
3.1.  In Aleppo Putin and Assad purposely bombed  schools and hospitals murdering civilians. Because those are  rebels against Assad or enemy of Assad.
3.2. In Mosul there are Iraqi civilians killed but US admitted it's a mistake. US is trying to free the Iraqis from ISIS. There is a big difference because the Iraqis are not against the US. Do you see the problem with your post? 
4 & 5. Wrong again. It was Putin who is responsible for removing all the chemicals from Assad hands. Not the US. 
I read what White helmets posted ------ Wrong treatments, no gloves, no mask?   WTH those are impoverished rebels do you expect them to have all those available and ready? Do you expect them that the whole population of Aleppo should be supplied with all those kinds of protections and gears? Do you expect them m how to treat or handle chemical attacks?  They need food let alone mask and gloves? 
6. War crimes are the criminals that commit genocides like Putin and Assad. There are independent groups that corroborated the story.


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So back to my original question----- What is Putin contributions to humanity?
> 
> 
> 
> In short:
> He made Russia wealthy country and is going on building of industry, infrastructure here.
> He stopped criminal in Russia.
> He stopped war in Chechnya, he prevented war between Azerbaijan and Armenia, he saved piece for people in Crimea.
> He stopped dangerous domination of the USA in Middle East which may lead to settling of Shariat law in every Arabic country as they ally Saudi and Qatar wish.
> For me personally he saved my life, my wife's and 2 my sons.
> 
> Would it be enough for you on my place?
Click to expand...


That his contribution to his country ------- good from your side and I'm happy for you. BTW didn't you just said you escaped from Ukraine because of putin invasion?
Commodities in Russia are soaring, population is dwindling, brain drain-------  Sorry but I don't see any good news coming out from Russia but hardship. 

From outsider what is there for me that Putin is a good guy not a thug-------- considering he currently supply arms to Iran and Syria that supports terrorism in ME and elsewhere in the region. 
Just imagine if the US is the not there. The whole ME will be so screwed up as it is with the help of  Putin.


----------



## charwin95

montelatici said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's why I'm glad Trump won.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why you are a moron.
Click to expand...


Ouch that hurts.


----------



## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From 17th century? That far------- how did you know if he is corrupted or not?
> Give me something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.
> 
> Wanna else? Ok. Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A dictators or rulers like Stalin cannot be proven corrupt or not because they rule the country------ so it's hard to proved without check and balance.
> Communism is p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. You can do it after their death. Stalin had nothing...
> 
> 2. What is corruption? Corruption is using power of authority to reach targets, non-coordinated with targets of authority. True dictator DEFINES targets for authority. So, he cannot be corrupted. It's a simple logic, like 2+2, and it's a small step to reduce media zombifying and having own opinion.
> 
> 3. P.S. I've read definition of corruption in wiki... In according with it EVERY politician is corrupted, just because he has a salary. But if every politician is corrupted, why do we have to use this term in general?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pressed send prematurely so I redid my post.
> 
> 1. Communism is no better than Hitler dictatorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't touch both. Hitler's invasion murdered some of my relatives. Communism not.
> 
> Welfare state, so good for you - is just an answer for Communism. Without it, you could have capitalism in Jack London style and much more furious.
> 
> Do you know, why your propaganda dislike communism? Because it MORE EFFECTIVE economically. Look at China and Vietnam and compare dynamics with US economics...
Click to expand...


So why did communism died? 

Without US both Vietnam and China will be like Venezuela.


----------



## Eugene

PK1 said:


> You appear to have an interesting story! Previously, you mentioned that you escaped from Ukraine in 2014 and left your business and house there.
> Where was that, in eastern Ukraine?
> 
> Why did you need to escape?
> How did Putin save your family's lives?


Not very interesting in fact. When there is a question of your and your family's life no one wants his history to be interesting and exciting but everyone would prefer safety. 
In short, I have a small business in both Russia and Ukraine. And I preferred to live in Ukraine as it was my native country. I had a house, shop and warehouse in Kiev. 
First impact was in crisis of 2008 when hryvna (local currency) fell from 4,3/$1 to 8/$1. 
I sell Japanese autorefinishes and yen even grew over $ and my goods became more than twice more expensive. In 2014 hryvna was 25/$1 and business by that moment was over. 
My family is Russian speaking and we felt very uncomfortable when hearing everyday shouts 'death to Russians' and 'Russians on the nifes' with mass media posting anti Russian hysterical propaganda full of lies. 
In February in the city we live revolution happened more than 100 dead, burnt buildings and cars, city is overfilled with nazi hitmen from western Ukraine and pro Russian from the east. 
No school for the son, pregnant wife...what would you do? I was thinking...hesitating...
And than in Odessa had happened mass murder by nazi. On the 2 of May they burnt, hit by steaks and shot pro Russian people at the meeting. Officially - only 48 but in fact 116 dead. Most of them died because of chemical gas attack inside the building they were trying to hide, some burnt, some jumped from high floor and were killed by legs and steaks. 
Odessa is the city I was born. Many people I know left to Donbass to fight against kiev's nazi. 
I am not a hero, I ran to Vladivostok- a city where I have business as well. 
Feel free and calm now thanks god. 

For your better understanding of the situation in Ukraine today. 
In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away. 
In 2014 Ukrainian authorities had forbidden Russian tv channels, Russian books and movies. 
A week ago Poroshenko said that Ukraine has never had such a high level of freedom. And 4 days ago he had signed a law forbidding social networks OK, VK, mail and yandex. 
Viva Freedom! 

And Ukraine is backed by the USA and EU. How do you think I should think about you? How would you think?

Please pay attention I didn't suffer physically, I haven't lost everything and still have enough money to live. And what about most of others who ran away from Ukraine with nothing in their pockets? (There are more than 5 millions of such people)


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> I know lots of Russians that live here and wants to kill putin. You are not being honest.
> 1. So why are people get arrested when they demonstrating peacefully?
> 2. Freedom of speak in your kitchen but not freedom as you publish your opinion to the public.
> 3. Your media are in total control by Putin and his cronies.
> 4. Didn't they just had a demonstration against corruption but they arrested all the leaders?
> 5. Give me one example that non Russian like me would consider Putin a nice guy.
> 6. Why political opponents are being murdered?
> 7.  They are rounding up gays and lesbians.
> 
> Those are facts.


Lots of Russian living in the USA are poisoned by your propaganda. Or how can you explain such a high level of putin's popularity in Russia? There are numerous social interviews proving that, anonymous as well, organized by foreign organizations as well. 

1. Last arrests were 12 of April. The strictest punishment was 15 days in jail. Only those were arrested who organized meetings in not approved by local authorities places. They are all free now. 
Let's recall how American authorities act against such demonstrations - occupy Wall Street, recent rallies in Dakota, anti-police violence rallies...
Remember in October 2013 woman was shot near capitoleum?

2. Freedom of publication of any opinions. You may check web sites, video blogs, tv and radio channels who everyday express their anti government statements. On central tv channels there are many political talk shows where opposing people are invited. About a month ago there was video call to Ukrainian general who could say whatever he wanted. And he expressed his being surprised in Ukrainian media next day. 

3. Nothing of the kind. Read the previous point. 

4. Not all but few of them. Those who violated the law. And the are free now. 

5. One reason. If you stop blindly believe to your mainstream media and start look for more alternative sources. If you try to think on who is the one getting benefit from one case or another. In that case after about month or two you will realize that Western policy is sick and western media are filled with lies and propaganda. Than you will understand who does better for the world in common, who is honest. 
Why Russia suddenly became so bad? They only wanted not to be touched not to be threatened... but when the USA began to organize color revolutions around Russia they had to protect themselves. Isn't it? When the USA settled rocket systems in Eastern Europe why shouldn't it supposed to be a threat? What would happen if Russian set rockets in Cuba, Venezuela? If Russia would change regime in Mexico?
Try to imagine mirror situation for more objective points of view. 

6. Who is murdered? Nemtsov?
He was not so popular. He was in opposition for many years and nobody killed him. And do you really believe Putin is so stupid to organize murder in front of kremlin? The same bs as in Litvinenko case where western official point of view is "plutonium was used to murder him". Plutonium. Right for easier tracking who did it. 
Weren't suspicious deaths of those who were opposing Clinton while your recent elections?

7. Who and where rounds up gays? I would place them to special clinics for curing but Russian authorities don't do it. 
All we have against homosexuals is the only law: propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. Gay parades sometimes are organized but our people are very negative to them do police is forced to protect them. Why cannot people follow their Christianic values why should we protect sick idiots?
The position of most Russians about gays is: if you wish to fuck ass - do it! But do it quietly at home and don't involve normal people or especially children in your perversion. 

All you posted are not facts. But what you suppose to be facts. 

All I posted may be checked in internet. So do it please.


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> ... So who is training the sophisticated Russian anti aircraft separatists in Ukraine?


Do you mean MH17?
You can see how western propaganda works. Everyone in west is sure that rebels splashed that Boeing and no one ever says that it could be done by Ukrainians. 

Ok. Here are some facts. 
After Ukrainian army started air strikes against civilian objects (  )
Rebels started using Igla (soviet analog of Stinger but more accurate one). And they splashed several planes. But of course it may shoot at low heights from 10 meters to 3500. 
Ukrainians decided to organize huge provocation. And they splashed Boeing 777. 
1. When it happened? A day before meeting of European Union leaders when they decided to discuss sanctions against Russia. Of course the result was - sanctions were admitted. 
2. Before being splashed Boeing had changed its height and course. Why? Who could order? Only dispatcher...Ukrainian one. But Ukrainians still haven't provided that tape to investigators. 
3. 2 days later Russian military provided all records of radar control but Americans haven't though they had awacs there. Why?
4. International investigators were invited immediately to Donbass by rebels and were insured there won't be fire from their side. Ukrainian army started massive shelling of Grabovo - small village where Boeing fell down though there weren't any rebels' soldiers there. After almost a month investigators could get to the place. By that moment black boxes were found and given to them by rebels without any clauses. 
5. Parts of the plane were not driven away for almost a year. How did they plan to investigate? Or may be they didn't plan to?
6. Russia's producer of "Buk" (anti air system used for splashing) organized full demonstration on how their system works. They shown where the rocket could come from, what kind of damage it will cause and explained the difference between old 'Buk' available to Ukrainians and new one which is Russian. But their information was ignored. 
7. Ukrainian dispatcher disappeared. 

...too many questions. And these are just from my head and I am not a specialist.


----------



## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have multi quotes so I have to sent my rebuttal this way.
> 
> As far as I know I have a freedom of speech, press, religion, gathering, assembly etc etc. In Russia you get arrested just by expressing your freedom of speech against corruption. You also get arrested or round up just by being a gay.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me answer as a person living in Russia.
> I have absolute freedom to speak whatever I think about anything. Those who don't like Putin and his policy a free to speak about it...in kitchen talks, in mass media anywhere.
> Press. We have numerous media resources freely showing their disagreement to Putin. We have here free of payment foreign tv-channels (if you wish I may make a photo of my tv screen to prove my words)
> Assembly or meeting are not forbidden but if talking about mass meetings it should be approved by local authorities beforehand. That rule take place in almost every country in the world.
> Religion. Absolute freedom. We have here a lot of muslims, buddists and non-orthodox christians have their own churches as well - there is catholic one not far from my home.
> Arrests for taking part in meetings happen only when one violates the law: either meeting was not allowed or there were some criminal violations against police, other people or some property.
> Gays are not forbidden and not being arrested. But propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. As for me I would catch homosexuals and place them into special clinics - them is a disease, affront of human nature and religion values.
> 
> So, all those statements you posted about Russia is absolute lie. If you don't believe me I can even invite you to visit me and to see the real picture yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know lots of Russians that live here and wants to kill putin. You are not being honest.
> 1. So why are people get arrested when they demonstrating peacefully?
> 2. Freedom of speak in your kitchen but not freedom as you publish your opinion to the public.
> 3. Your media are in total control by Putin and his cronies.
> 4. Didn't they just had a demonstration against corruption but they arrested all the leaders?
> 5. Give me one example that non Russian like me would consider Putin a nice guy.
> 6. Why political opponents are being murdered?
> 7.  They are rounding up gays and lesbians.
> 
> Those are facts.
Click to expand...


Ha-ha, I have different sight on this, because I'm here...  
1. No one peaceful demonstrants were arrested. If you violate the law and organize mass demonstration without informing of authorities - they'll just stop it. But offcourse police arrests hooligans. You're seeing from media picture, how "tiny girl arrested by huge policemans"... They're not showing a size of stone, this girl threw at head of one policeman. Yes, policemen are brave guys, but they permanently get damage from this "peaceful" demonstrants... 

2. I have a blog, where I writing everything I think. It periodically attacked by "liberals", that hate people, having different opinion. But no one from authorities could forbid my blog.

3. All Russian media are controlled by their financial owners. Putin doesn't relate anything to this control 

6. Not murdered, but prisoned... But in fact, for the real crime... Damn, this authorities leave many swindlers, walking free - that's real crime of authorities. They MUST keep law - instead of it they looking at media, you watch and "try not to prison Putin's political opponents" instead of what they MUST do.

7. About gays and lesbian - yes, they are forced to have EQUAL rights with other people in Russia, not to be privileged. Offcourse, it's a serious crime for western world, discriminating WASPs...


----------



## deanrd

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have multi quotes so I have to sent my rebuttal this way.
> 
> As far as I know I have a freedom of speech, press, religion, gathering, assembly etc etc. In Russia you get arrested just by expressing your freedom of speech against corruption. You also get arrested or round up just by being a gay.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me answer as a person living in Russia.
> I have absolute freedom to speak whatever I think about anything. Those who don't like Putin and his policy a free to speak about it...in kitchen talks, in mass media anywhere.
> Press. We have numerous media resources freely showing their disagreement to Putin. We have here free of payment foreign tv-channels (if you wish I may make a photo of my tv screen to prove my words)
> Assembly or meeting are not forbidden but if talking about mass meetings it should be approved by local authorities beforehand. That rule take place in almost every country in the world.
> Religion. Absolute freedom. We have here a lot of muslims, buddists and non-orthodox christians have their own churches as well - there is catholic one not far from my home.
> Arrests for taking part in meetings happen only when one violates the law: either meeting was not allowed or there were some criminal violations against police, other people or some property.
> Gays are not forbidden and not being arrested. But propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. As for me I would catch homosexuals and place them into special clinics - them is a disease, affront of human nature and religion values.
> 
> So, all those statements you posted about Russia is absolute lie. If you don't believe me I can even invite you to visit me and to see the real picture yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know lots of Russians that live here and wants to kill putin. You are not being honest.
> 1. So why are people get arrested when they demonstrating peacefully?
> 2. Freedom of speak in your kitchen but not freedom as you publish your opinion to the public.
> 3. Your media are in total control by Putin and his cronies.
> 4. Didn't they just had a demonstration against corruption but they arrested all the leaders?
> 5. Give me one example that non Russian like me would consider Putin a nice guy.
> 6. Why political opponents are being murdered?
> 7.  They are rounding up gays and lesbians.
> 
> Those are facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha-ha, I have different sight on this, because I'm here...
> 1. No one peaceful demonstrants were arrested. If you violate the law and organize mass demonstration without informing of authorities - they'll just stop it. But offcourse police arrests hooligans. You're seeing from media picture, how "tiny girl arrested by huge policemans"... They're not showing a size of stone, this girl threw at head of one policeman. Yes, policemen are brave guys, but they permanently get damage from this "peaceful" demonstrants...
> 
> 2. I have a blog, where I writing everything I think. It periodically attacked by "liberals", that hate people, having different opinion. But no one from authorities could forbid my blog.
> 
> 3. All Russian media are controlled by their financial owners. Putin doesn't relate anything to this control
> 
> 6. Not murdered, but prisoned... But in fact, for the real crime... Damn, this authorities leave many swindlers, walking free - that's real crime of authorities. They MUST keep law - instead of it they looking at media, you watch and "try not to prison Putin's political opponents" instead of what they MUST do.
> 
> 7. About gays and lesbian - yes, they are forced to have EQUAL rights with other people in Russia, not to be privileged. Offcourse, it's a serious crime for western world, discriminating WASPs...
Click to expand...

Are you an idiot or a creep?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/...-killing-gay-men-russian-paper-says.html?_r=0

100 suspected gays arrested in Russia's Chechnya, 3 killed: report

Russia ‘has secretly opened Nazi-style prisons for gay men', local reports claim


----------



## Sbiker

charwin95 said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Napoleon was born at 18th century and acting in 19th too. There are a lot of documents, devoted to French revolution and its heroes, including Napoleon.
> 
> Wanna else? Ok. Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dictators or rulers like Stalin cannot be proven corrupt or not because they rule the country------ so it's hard to proved without check and balance.
> Communism is p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. You can do it after their death. Stalin had nothing...
> 
> 2. What is corruption? Corruption is using power of authority to reach targets, non-coordinated with targets of authority. True dictator DEFINES targets for authority. So, he cannot be corrupted. It's a simple logic, like 2+2, and it's a small step to reduce media zombifying and having own opinion.
> 
> 3. P.S. I've read definition of corruption in wiki... In according with it EVERY politician is corrupted, just because he has a salary. But if every politician is corrupted, why do we have to use this term in general?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pressed send prematurely so I redid my post.
> 
> 1. Communism is no better than Hitler dictatorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't touch both. Hitler's invasion murdered some of my relatives. Communism not.
> 
> Welfare state, so good for you - is just an answer for Communism. Without it, you could have capitalism in Jack London style and much more furious.
> 
> Do you know, why your propaganda dislike communism? Because it MORE EFFECTIVE economically. Look at China and Vietnam and compare dynamics with US economics...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why did communism died?
> 
> Without US both Vietnam and China will be like Venezuela.
Click to expand...


People.. Practice shows, not every people able to live in communist society.

Look around. IT companies like Google widely use de-facto communist practices to organize employees - and have success. But this employees are high-qualified and educated specialists...And much companies cannot do something just because of quality of employees... USSR fallen because of mentality of current active generation... If it could live about 10-20 years else, for the new generation - I think, it would have much more chances to stay alive. But not all is lost - СССР-2061: Главная


----------



## Sbiker

deanrd said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have multi quotes so I have to sent my rebuttal this way.
> 
> As far as I know I have a freedom of speech, press, religion, gathering, assembly etc etc. In Russia you get arrested just by expressing your freedom of speech against corruption. You also get arrested or round up just by being a gay.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me answer as a person living in Russia.
> I have absolute freedom to speak whatever I think about anything. Those who don't like Putin and his policy a free to speak about it...in kitchen talks, in mass media anywhere.
> Press. We have numerous media resources freely showing their disagreement to Putin. We have here free of payment foreign tv-channels (if you wish I may make a photo of my tv screen to prove my words)
> Assembly or meeting are not forbidden but if talking about mass meetings it should be approved by local authorities beforehand. That rule take place in almost every country in the world.
> Religion. Absolute freedom. We have here a lot of muslims, buddists and non-orthodox christians have their own churches as well - there is catholic one not far from my home.
> Arrests for taking part in meetings happen only when one violates the law: either meeting was not allowed or there were some criminal violations against police, other people or some property.
> Gays are not forbidden and not being arrested. But propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. As for me I would catch homosexuals and place them into special clinics - them is a disease, affront of human nature and religion values.
> 
> So, all those statements you posted about Russia is absolute lie. If you don't believe me I can even invite you to visit me and to see the real picture yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know lots of Russians that live here and wants to kill putin. You are not being honest.
> 1. So why are people get arrested when they demonstrating peacefully?
> 2. Freedom of speak in your kitchen but not freedom as you publish your opinion to the public.
> 3. Your media are in total control by Putin and his cronies.
> 4. Didn't they just had a demonstration against corruption but they arrested all the leaders?
> 5. Give me one example that non Russian like me would consider Putin a nice guy.
> 6. Why political opponents are being murdered?
> 7.  They are rounding up gays and lesbians.
> 
> Those are facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha-ha, I have different sight on this, because I'm here...
> 1. No one peaceful demonstrants were arrested. If you violate the law and organize mass demonstration without informing of authorities - they'll just stop it. But offcourse police arrests hooligans. You're seeing from media picture, how "tiny girl arrested by huge policemans"... They're not showing a size of stone, this girl threw at head of one policeman. Yes, policemen are brave guys, but they permanently get damage from this "peaceful" demonstrants...
> 
> 2. I have a blog, where I writing everything I think. It periodically attacked by "liberals", that hate people, having different opinion. But no one from authorities could forbid my blog.
> 
> 3. All Russian media are controlled by their financial owners. Putin doesn't relate anything to this control
> 
> 6. Not murdered, but prisoned... But in fact, for the real crime... Damn, this authorities leave many swindlers, walking free - that's real crime of authorities. They MUST keep law - instead of it they looking at media, you watch and "try not to prison Putin's political opponents" instead of what they MUST do.
> 
> 7. About gays and lesbian - yes, they are forced to have EQUAL rights with other people in Russia, not to be privileged. Offcourse, it's a serious crime for western world, discriminating WASPs...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you an idiot or a creep?
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/01/...-killing-gay-men-russian-paper-says.html?_r=0
> 
> 100 suspected gays arrested in Russia's Chechnya, 3 killed: report
> 
> Russia ‘has secretly opened Nazi-style prisons for gay men', local reports claim
Click to expand...


Ha-ha, such a cheerful question from someone, who believe in this media... ))

Do you believe in aliens and live Santa Claus too??


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> ...BTW didn't you just said you escaped from Ukraine because of putin invasion?


I've written the reason of my escape above. 
Do you have proves of Putin's invasion?
Even Department of State said that they don't have proves of Russian army presence in Ukraine. 

And I ran from Kiev overfilled by nazis backed by USAEU. 



charwin95 said:


> Commodities in Russia are soaring, population is dwindling, brain drain-------  Sorry but I don't see any good news coming out from Russia but hardship.


Which is true- imported goods became 50% more expensive. And it is one of the main claims to our government and their ruling the economy. But you shouldn't forget that our economy was ruined by you and only after 2001-2002 we started building something. Now we may base mostly on resources but it will not last long, don't worry. 
Anyway people do not suffer that much as your media tell. For example the lowest salary in my company is $1000 while 500 is enough for eating and paying for а flat. If you wish I may send you my recent check from supermarket do that you could compare prices. 

Population. You got old info. 
And thanks for mentioning this subject - in this picture one can notice that situation with population became better after Putin's coming. 




This is official statistics. 
As you can see we are in positive figures now. 
And pay attention at 2014 - a lot of people from Ukraine came to Russia. 



charwin95 said:


> From outsider what is there for me that Putin is a good guy not a thug-------- considering he currently supply arms to Iran and Syria that supports terrorism in ME and elsewhere in the region.
> Just imagine if the US is the not there. The whole ME will be so screwed up as it is with the help of  Putin.


All these are simply propaganda words without any proves. 
Here is interesting video which make me believe that West is not fatally sick. You still have honest people.
I like her answering questions at 13:30 most of all. 
She is saying true facts. 

And now just imagine if USA wasn't there what would happen? There won't be a war and suffering people!


----------



## ESay

Eugene said:


> In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away.


Lie. Some of my relatives (there are males) live in Russia. And they freely entered Ukraine in the last year. And you are saying that you are still a Ukrainian citizen and you were forbidden from entering Ukraine? It is not a lie but a pure bullshit.



Eugene said:


> Please pay attention I didn't suffer physically, I haven't lost everything and still have enough money to live. And what about most of others who ran away from Ukraine with nothing in their pockets? (There are more than 5 millions of such people)


5 million? You could write 10 million, it would be more impressive. I think it is pointless to ask to give some official figures. For example how many Ukrainians have been given a refugee status in Russia.


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## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away.
> 
> 
> 
> Lie. Some of my relatives (there are males) live in Russia. And they freely entered Ukraine in the last year. And you are saying that you are still a Ukrainian citizen and you were forbidden from entering Ukraine? It is not a lie but a pure bullshit.
Click to expand...


Offcourse they did! Ukraine is very corrupted country, so, you really could avoid your Russian relatives from any problems, using frequent bribes - just because you know, who taking this bribes and also they know you as not a policeman


----------



## mudwhistle

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.


Putin's a corrupt asshole......but he's more honest than any Democrat and much more honest than our media.


----------



## OnePercenter

He's a bad guy that wants to end western civilizations.


----------



## PK1

Eugene said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You appear to have an interesting story! Previously, you mentioned that you escaped from Ukraine in 2014 and left your business and house there.
> Where was that, in eastern Ukraine?
> Why did you need to escape?
> How did Putin save your family's lives?
> 
> 
> 
> Not very interesting in fact. When there is a question of your and your family's life no one wants his history to be interesting and exciting but everyone would prefer safety.
> In short, I have a small business in both Russia and Ukraine. And I preferred to live in Ukraine as it was my native country. I had a house, shop and warehouse in Kiev.
> First impact was in crisis of 2008 when hryvna (local currency) fell from 4,3/$1 to 8/$1.
> I sell Japanese autorefinishes and yen even grew over $ and my goods became more than twice more expensive. In 2014 hryvna was 25/$1 and business by that moment was over.
> My family is Russian speaking and we felt very uncomfortable when hearing everyday shouts 'death to Russians' and 'Russians on the nifes' with mass media posting anti Russian hysterical propaganda full of lies.
> In February in the city we live revolution happened more than 100 dead, burnt buildings and cars, city is overfilled with nazi hitmen from western Ukraine and pro Russian from the east.
> No school for the son, pregnant wife...what would you do? I was thinking...hesitating...
> And than in Odessa had happened mass murder by nazi. On the 2 of May they burnt, hit by steaks and shot pro Russian people at the meeting. Officially - only 48 but in fact 116 dead. Most of them died because of chemical gas attack inside the building they were trying to hide, some burnt, some jumped from high floor and were killed by legs and steaks.
> Odessa is the city I was born. Many people I know left to Donbass to fight against kiev's nazi.
> I am not a hero, I ran to Vladivostok- a city where I have business as well.
> Feel free and calm now thanks god.
> 
> And Ukraine is backed by the USA and EU. How do you think I should think about you? How would you think?
Click to expand...

So, you are an ethnic Russian, and were living in western Ukraine. Your story is similar to many ethnic Ukrainians who lived in Donbas (eastern Ukraine), but in *REVERSE*.
Under the Russian separatists, directed by Russian "volunteers" from Moscow & other parts of Russia, the Ukrainians living in their own homeland, in Donbas, and who did not want to separate, were also terrorized, killed, or forced to leave. A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!

I'm glad you & family survived & are doing OK now.


----------



## Igrok_

PK1 said:


> ethnic Ukrainians


What a joke.


----------



## PK1

Igrok_ said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ethnic Ukrainians
> 
> 
> 
> What a joke.
Click to expand...

Is ethnic Russians also a joke to you?
Let's reverse it ...
What about Ukrainians living in Russia?


----------



## Eugene

ESay said:


> Lie. Some of my relatives (there are males) live in Russia. And they freely entered Ukraine in the last year. And you are saying that you are still a Ukrainian citizen and you were forbidden from entering Ukraine? It is not a lie but a pure bullshit


Lie? Just because this info is not the one you like?
The nonsense of the situation is that everything is different from one border post to another. I arrived by plane and in the airport there are the strictest rules though my father, living in Odessa travels by plane all the time without any problems. Why? I don't know...may be because of age. 
I was told by friends that if I arrived by car or by train I would most likely was allowed to. But that was inconvenient for me. 
Fact is that I was not allowed to visit Ukraine because of idiotism of authorities. That is not about freedom and democracy which they declare. 
I also have stories from my Ukrainian friends who saw Russians got out of the bus when crossing the border not allowing them to enter Ukraine. 
You may believe it or not. But what is the sense for me to lie?

And I never told that I was citizen of Ukraine. I was born in Odessa and I got passport of the citizen of the USSR. When I studied in university I faced a choice which citizenship to take. I've chosen Russian. Ukraine doesn't allow to have several citizenships while Russia does. But never was a problem! The only thing I couldn't is to vote at Ukrainian elections. Russian passport is much better - it allows much in Russia and we have more countries to visit without visa. 



ESay said:


> 5 million? You could write 10 million, it would be more impressive. I think it is pointless to ask to give some official figures. For example how many Ukrainians have been given a refugee status in Russia.


I have checked fresh statistics and here are some official figures:
600,000 Ukrainians got Russian citizenship in 2014-2015
1,320,000 Ukrainians got official status of refugee. 
600,000 Ukrainians are considered to be illegal migrants. 
2,500,000 - 3,000,000 (this figure floats time to time) of Ukrainians stay in Russia as temporary workers. Ukrainian Foreign Ministry says it is 4 million. 

So here are official figures. Go and check them. They are open. 

I would also take into account people like me. I am supposed to be Russian citizen but I lived and worked in 2 countries. I will never get into this statistics but I was forced to move, change place of living, working, school for a son... I know many people who used to live like that. 
Ukraine was never supposed to be another country. It is historically part of Russia and all this political chess breaks habits, lives...


----------



## Eugene

PK1 said:


> So, you are an ethnic Russian, and were living in western Ukraine. Your story is similar to many ethnic Ukrainians who lived in Donbas (eastern Ukraine), but in *REVERSE*.
> Under the Russian separatists, directed by Russian "volunteers" from Moscow & other parts of Russia, the Ukrainians living in their own homeland, in Donbas, and who did not want to separate, were also terrorized, killed, or forced to leave. A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!
> 
> I'm glad you & family survived & are doing OK now.


Ethnically I am Ukrainian, born by Ukrainians in Ukraine. But I refuse to call myself Ukrainian  because I don't admit that such nation exists.

If we go back to 9th century we know that Slavic nations didn't have their centralized government but they had cities from Scandinavia to Kiev at south, Volga at the east and Dnestr at the west. Vikings went to their raids together with Varyags (Slavic warriors from Ladoga, not far from modern Sant Petersburg) and they called Slavic country Gardarika (land of cities), vikings  came here to be hired as soldiers of fortune. 
In 9th century Ryurik, varyag who is supposed to take part in viking's invasion to Britain and France took power of cityVladimir and joined Slavic cities into a single country. His friend Oleg (his son's Igor mentor) after Ryurik's death took Kiev and called it a capital.
Since that time Ryurik's dynasty ruled Russia with capital in Kiev and from 1147 in Moscow. Kiev was supposed to have not vey safe geographical position. Territory around  Kiev and to the west, south and east was a kind of safety buffer, border edge (Okraina). Here appears the name of this region, not country or nation.
Kazaks were warriors who had to protect Russia (Rus') from enemy. They were freed from any tax as a paiment for serving. BTW Kazakhstan took its name from Kazaks in 1925.

If one knows history he will realize that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, the greatest one, who protected all nations from any evil and who allowed all other nations to keep their culture. That's why we have more than 200 nations in Russia.
We stopped Tatars, who invaded lands from China to Europe, we stopped Osman empire, we stopped Napoleon, Hitler... our army twice freed Western Europe and never tried to invade it.
But all our history we are being lied by British and opposed by them in different places of the world.

Sorry for such a long story but I like history and I am proud of my nation.

Back to the subject.
In Donbass not Russians came to fight but Ukrainians from west came to fight! Donbass' citizens fight against Kiev. Kiev shots civilians. Recently I posted here video of air strikes over center of Luhansk. And there are many other proves of Ukrainian aggression against civilians. 
Of course a lot of refugees from Donbass went to west, I suppose equal quantity as those left for Russia. They run not basing on their political preferences but they chose where it would be easier for them to live - relatives, friends etc.
People living in Donbass are not supposed to be Ukrainians by nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine and they know it. And that's why they are afraid of nazis' coming there. As well as crimeans were afraid of them and took weapon into their hands until Russian troops stood up to protect them.

So your conclusion is not correct for me. Though  from far away, from another continent it probably looks like you had written.


----------



## Eugene

PK1 said:


> A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!


"Ethnic cleansing" is absolutely not understandable phrase for Russians. 
How on earth is it possible to understand of what nationality you are? We are mixed! For example I have relatives - Georgians, polish and Jew...but most of my ancestors are Russians (Ukrainians). 
Especially how can Russians be divided from Ukrainians?

Do you know how a person becomes either Russian or Ukrainian? He simply says which he likes more...on political ground or something else. Just like that! Simply chooses what he likes more and that's all!


----------



## Sbiker

Eugene said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!
> 
> 
> 
> "Ethnic cleansing" is absolutely not understandable phrase for Russians.
> How on earth is it possible to understand of what nationality you are? We are mixed! For example I have relatives - Georgians, polish and Jew...but most of my ancestors are Russians (Ukrainians).
> Especially how can Russians be divided from Ukrainians?
> 
> Do you know how a person becomes either Russian or Ukrainian? He simply says which he likes more...on political ground or something else. Just like that! Simply chooses what he likes more and that's all!
Click to expand...


Yes, it's true till the cynic level...
Western ukrainians easily perform ethnic cleansings, because many Russian and Ukrainian people don't know "ukrainian" language (which differ from region to region).

But how could you perform ethnic cleansing from Russia against Ukrainians? It's technically impossible! All of this "Western True Ukrainians" would momentally become a "Russians", not differ from others. I bet 1000$, PK1 momentally become a "true Russian" if the Russian army could really occupy his territory. So, all talking about "ethnical ukrainians", "historic traditions" and so on - just a politic speculation.


----------



## Igrok_

PK1 said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ethnic Ukrainians
> 
> 
> 
> What a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is ethnic Russians also a joke to you?
> Let's reverse it ...
> What about Ukrainians living in Russia?
Click to expand...

What about them? 
Ethnic Russians are a nation, whereas "ethnic ukrainians" are just slavonics with polish mentality.


----------



## Ima Cat

Vladimir Putin rescuing an endangered snow leopard, kindness quelling the cat's natural fear of man.


----------



## Eugene

Ima Cat said:


> View attachment 127757
> 
> Vladimir Putin rescuing an endangered snow leopard, kindness quelling the cat's natural fear of man.


4 months ago that leopard died in car accident (((
2 months ago new road with tunnel under that forest was finished. 
It is 200 km away from me


----------



## Ima Cat

Eugene said:


> Ima Cat said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 127757
> 
> Vladimir Putin rescuing an endangered snow leopard, kindness quelling the cat's natural fear of man.
> 
> 
> 
> 4 months ago that leopard died in car accident (((
> 2 months ago new road with tunnel under that forest was finished.
> It is 200 km away from me
Click to expand...


Thanks for the disinformation, CIA disinformation service.  You are on the job.


----------



## Eugene

Ima Cat said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ima Cat said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 127757
> 
> Vladimir Putin rescuing an endangered snow leopard, kindness quelling the cat's natural fear of man.
> 
> 
> 
> 4 months ago that leopard died in car accident (((
> 2 months ago new road with tunnel under that forest was finished.
> It is 200 km away from me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for the disinformation, CIA disinformation service.  You are on the job.
Click to expand...

Disinformation?
Знаменитый приморский леопард погиб в ДТП — National Geographic Россия

But I am surprised how much time have already passed since that time. Time flies..


----------



## ESay

Eugene said:


> Lie? Just because this info is not the one you like?
> The nonsense of the situation is that everything is different from one border post to another. I arrived by plane and in the airport there are the strictest rules though my father, living in Odessa travels by plane all the time without any problems. Why? I don't know...may be because of age.
> I was told by friends that if I arrived by car or by train I would most likely was allowed to. But that was inconvenient for me.
> Fact is that I was not allowed to visit Ukraine because of idiotism of authorities. That is not about freedom and democracy which they declare.
> I also have stories from my Ukrainian friends who saw Russians got out of the bus when crossing the border not allowing them to enter Ukraine.
> You may believe it or not. But what is the sense for me to lie?


My mentioned relatives came to Ukraine several times during the last three years – by a train, car, and once by a plane (a male, 25 years old). I was never told that they had had any obstacles to enter Ukraine.

If this really happened to you, then I want to apologize for my assumption. After a couple of years of communicating with the Russians on forums, I have got used to not trusting them.



Eugene said:


> And I never told that I was citizen of Ukraine. I was born in Odessa and I got passport of the citizen of the USSR. When I studied in university I faced a choice which citizenship to take. I've chosen Russian. Ukraine doesn't allow to have several citizenships while Russia does. But never was a problem! The only thing I couldn't is to vote at Ukrainian elections. Russian passport is much better - it allows much in Russia and we have more countries to visit without visa.



You wrote above this thing:
_In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away. _

If you are not a Ukrainian citizen, then I don’t understand what the underlined statement is about.



Eugene said:


> I have checked fresh statistics and here are some official figures:
> 600,000 Ukrainians got Russian citizenship in 2014-2015
> 1,320,000 Ukrainians got official status of refugee.
> 600,000 Ukrainians are considered to be illegal migrants.
> 2,500,000 - 3,000,000 (this figure floats time to time) of Ukrainians stay in Russia as temporary workers. Ukrainian Foreign Ministry says it is 4 million.
> 
> So here are official figures. Go and check them. They are open.


The weird thing about these figures is that they vary from one source to another. Do you have a direct link to the sites where they exposed? Especially about those who get a refugee status.

And we are talking about people who fled Ukraine and not about those who go to Russia for work, right?


----------



## Eugene

ESay said:


> If this really happened to you, then I want to apologize for my assumption. After a couple of years of communicating with the Russians on forums, I have got used to not trusting them.


I had only one try and was unlucky. The most stupid about Ukraine is that rules are changed too often and you never know which surprise is prepared for you for the next time.
There are a lot of cases such as mine.
My friends tell me that now I can visit Ukraine without any problems and I believe them but I don't believe to nazis who rule the country now.

If journalist from western Ukraine spent 2 years in jail for truth about Donbass (Ruslan Kotsaba) is well known case many others are kept silent. Another journalist Anatolia Sharij is forced to live in Europe...check his channel in YouTube, he has many videos with English subtitles. A lot of new you can know from him. These 2 guys always prove their words, never just say.
There are people in Ukraine sitting in jail for their posts in fb.

As for trusting Russians, I don't see any difference between any human beings but I see that some stereotypes do present. And some of them are created artificially. "Never trust Russians" is one of them.
People are different everywhere, points of view are different, political preferences differ... As far as I can judge very few Russians visit foreign forums. They are either so called liberals but in fact people hating Russia and everything Russian or rare idiots like me hoping that their opinion may be heard at the other side of the earth.
Look how many different opinions here, and the same is in Russian forums.



ESay said:


> You wrote above this thing:
> _In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away. _
> 
> If you are not a Ukrainian citizen, then I don’t understand what the underlined statement is about.


Well I guess you're right. A kind of misunderstanding.. I have all papers - right for living, for any kind of activity in Ukraine but not passport as I didn't want it. But I never supposed myself an alien in the land I was born and was living all my life.



ESay said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have checked fresh statistics and here are some official figures:
> 600,000 Ukrainians got Russian citizenship in 2014-2015
> 1,320,000 Ukrainians got official status of refugee.
> 600,000 Ukrainians are considered to be illegal migrants.
> 2,500,000 - 3,000,000 (this figure floats time to time) of Ukrainians stay in Russia as temporary workers. Ukrainian Foreign Ministry says it is 4 million.
> 
> So here are official figures. Go and check them. They are open.
> 
> 
> 
> The weird thing about these figures is that they vary from one source to another. Do you have a direct link to the sites where they exposed? Especially about those who get a refugee status.
> 
> And we are talking about people who fled Ukraine and not about those who go to Russia for work, right?
Click to expand...

When writing this post I used 2 sources.
Official site gks.ru showing figures of statistic general office of Russian Federation - GosKomStat (Federal Commetee of Statistics).
And statdata.ru which is not official but there are many figures there from different open sources. It's more convenient for using and their figures are true, checked for many times before.
They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.


----------



## ESay

Eugene said:


> There are people in Ukraine sitting in jail for their posts in fb.


Could you give some examples?



Eugene said:


> Well I guess you're right. A kind of misunderstanding.. I have all papers - right for living, for any kind of activity in Ukraine but not passport as I didn't want it. But I never supposed myself an alien in the land I was born and was living all my life.


Nevertheless, you are a foreign citizen for Ukraine. You chose the Russian passport because it was more convenient for you. It was your choice.



Eugene said:


> When writing this post I used 2 sources.
> Official site gks.ru showing figures of statistic general office of Russian Federation - GosKomStat (Federal Commetee of Statistics).
> And statdata.ru which is not official but there are many figures there from different open sources. It's more convenient for using and their figures are true, checked for many times before.
> They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.


Maybe these figures are true, but they don’t match with the figures in your post. It is a link to Rosstat where the figures about the population and migration in Russia are presented (for 2015 year). 
БГД

There is a chapter Распределение беженцев, вынужденных переселенцев и лиц, получивших временное убежище по странам гражданства и категориям поселений в Российской Федерации, состоящих на учете на 1 января 2016 года
It says that as of the January of 2016 there are 273 refugees from Ukraine and 311 134 those who were given a ‘temporary shelter’. 



Eugene said:


> They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.


Thanks, but I don’t need translation. I speak Russian all my life.


----------



## Eugene

ESay said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are people in Ukraine sitting in jail for their posts in fb.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you give some examples?
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess you're right. A kind of misunderstanding.. I have all papers - right for living, for any kind of activity in Ukraine but not passport as I didn't want it. But I never supposed myself an alien in the land I was born and was living all my life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nevertheless, you are a foreign citizen for Ukraine. You chose the Russian passport because it was more convenient for you. It was your choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> When writing this post I used 2 sources.
> Official site gks.ru showing figures of statistic general office of Russian Federation - GosKomStat (Federal Commetee of Statistics).
> And statdata.ru which is not official but there are many figures there from different open sources. It's more convenient for using and their figures are true, checked for many times before.
> They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe these figures are true, but they don’t match with the figures in your post. It is a link to Rosstat where the figures about the population and migration in Russia are presented (for 2015 year).
> БГД
> 
> There is a chapter Распределение беженцев, вынужденных переселенцев и лиц, получивших временное убежище по странам гражданства и категориям поселений в Российской Федерации, состоящих на учете на 1 января 2016 года
> It says that as of the January of 2016 there are 273 refugees from Ukraine and 311 134 those who were given a ‘temporary shelter’.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks, but I don’t need translation. I speak Russian all my life.
Click to expand...

Глава правления банка отправился в СИЗО за пост в Facebook
В Ивано-Франковской области прокурора уволили за посты в Facebook
В Украине подростка посадили на 2,5 года за пост в Facebook
Харьковчанина отправили в тюрьму за посты на Facebook
http://technoguide.com.ua/2017/05/1...am-za-posty-v-facebook-s-simvolikoj-sssr.html
Is that enough?
I didn't use Russian sources so that there were any suspicions. 

And check Kotsaba story thoroughly. 

Getting official status of refugee in Russia is rather complicated as this sphere is buerocratic. And most of Ukrainians prefer not to get it, they simply live here and work without any problems. They perfectly know Russian, style of living is the same, no problem in professional spheres as well. A lot is officially said about it. 
But 1,330,000 and 311,000 is too large difference. Check the period. Those tables are not so easy to understand. 

As for me, even if I am Russian citizen should I be refused in visit without any grounds? Do you think it is normal practice for normal country?


----------



## ESay

Eugene said:


> Глава правления банка отправился в СИЗО за пост в Facebook
> В Ивано-Франковской области прокурора уволили за посты в Facebook
> В Украине подростка посадили на 2,5 года за пост в Facebook
> Харьковчанина отправили в тюрьму за посты на Facebook
> http://technoguide.com.ua/2017/05/1...am-za-posty-v-facebook-s-simvolikoj-sssr.html
> Is that enough?
> I didn't use Russian sources so that there were any suspicions.
> 
> And check Kotsaba story thoroughly.


No, not enough. Maybe you didn’t read the articles properly; no one of them got imprisoned purely because of posts in Facebook. Read not only the headlines which were designed to catch the eye.



Eugene said:


> Getting official status of refugee in Russia is rather complicated as this sphere is buerocratic. And most of Ukrainians prefer not to get it, they simply live here and work without any problems. They perfectly know Russian, style of living is the same, no problem in professional spheres as well. A lot is officially said about it.
> But 1,330,000 and 311,000 is too large difference. Check the period. Those tables are not so easy to understand.


Yeah? Then explain that to me. With links and figures, but not with meaningless words.



Eugene said:


> As for me, even if I am Russian citizen should I be refused in visit without any grounds? Do you think it is normal practice for normal country?


It is not unusual practice. I know examples when some people were refused to enter some countries without explaining, Israel is one of them, for example.


----------



## Igrok_

Eugene said:


> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this really happened to you, then I want to apologize for my assumption. After a couple of years of communicating with the Russians on forums, I have got used to not trusting them.
> 
> 
> 
> I had only one try and was unlucky. The most stupid about Ukraine is that rules are changed too often and you never know which surprise is prepared for you for the next time.
> There are a lot of cases such as mine.
> My friends tell me that now I can visit Ukraine without any problems and I believe them but I don't believe to nazis who rule the country now.
> 
> If journalist from western Ukraine spent 2 years in jail for truth about Donbass (Ruslan Kotsaba) is well known case many others are kept silent. Another journalist Anatolia Sharij is forced to live in Europe...check his channel in YouTube, he has many videos with English subtitles. A lot of new you can know from him. These 2 guys always prove their words, never just say.
> There are people in Ukraine sitting in jail for their posts in fb.
> 
> As for trusting Russians, I don't see any difference between any human beings but I see that some stereotypes do present. And some of them are created artificially. "Never trust Russians" is one of them.
> People are different everywhere, points of view are different, political preferences differ... As far as I can judge very few Russians visit foreign forums. They are either so called liberals but in fact people hating Russia and everything Russian or rare idiots like me hoping that their opinion may be heard at the other side of the earth.
> Look how many different opinions here, and the same is in Russian forums.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote above this thing:
> _In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away. _
> 
> If you are not a Ukrainian citizen, then I don’t understand what the underlined statement is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I guess you're right. A kind of misunderstanding.. I have all papers - right for living, for any kind of activity in Ukraine but not passport as I didn't want it. But I never supposed myself an alien in the land I was born and was living all my life.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have checked fresh statistics and here are some official figures:
> 600,000 Ukrainians got Russian citizenship in 2014-2015
> 1,320,000 Ukrainians got official status of refugee.
> 600,000 Ukrainians are considered to be illegal migrants.
> 2,500,000 - 3,000,000 (this figure floats time to time) of Ukrainians stay in Russia as temporary workers. Ukrainian Foreign Ministry says it is 4 million.
> 
> So here are official figures. Go and check them. They are open.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The weird thing about these figures is that they vary from one source to another. Do you have a direct link to the sites where they exposed? Especially about those who get a refugee status.
> 
> And we are talking about people who fled Ukraine and not about those who go to Russia for work, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When writing this post I used 2 sources.
> Official site gks.ru showing figures of statistic general office of Russian Federation - GosKomStat (Federal Commetee of Statistics).
> And statdata.ru which is not official but there are many figures there from different open sources. It's more convenient for using and their figures are true, checked for many times before.
> They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.
Click to expand...

dear Eugene,

according to your feelings, how many Chinese people in russian Far East in comparison to the russian population?

much more interesting subject to discuss


----------



## Eugene

ESay said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Глава правления банка отправился в СИЗО за пост в Facebook
> В Ивано-Франковской области прокурора уволили за посты в Facebook
> В Украине подростка посадили на 2,5 года за пост в Facebook
> Харьковчанина отправили в тюрьму за посты на Facebook
> http://technoguide.com.ua/2017/05/1...am-za-posty-v-facebook-s-simvolikoj-sssr.html
> Is that enough?
> I didn't use Russian sources so that there were any suspicions.
> 
> And check Kotsaba story thoroughly.
> 
> 
> 
> No, not enough. Maybe you didn’t read the articles properly; no one of them got imprisoned purely because of posts in Facebook. Read not only the headlines which were designed to catch the eye.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting official status of refugee in Russia is rather complicated as this sphere is buerocratic. And most of Ukrainians prefer not to get it, they simply live here and work without any problems. They perfectly know Russian, style of living is the same, no problem in professional spheres as well. A lot is officially said about it.
> But 1,330,000 and 311,000 is too large difference. Check the period. Those tables are not so easy to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah? Then explain that to me. With links and figures, but not with meaningless words.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for me, even if I am Russian citizen should I be refused in visit without any grounds? Do you think it is normal practice for normal country?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is not unusual practice. I know examples when some people were refused to enter some countries without explaining, Israel is one of them, for example.
Click to expand...

I read those articles and what I read shocked me. For it is normal on one single reason - you try to protect nazi regime of today's Ukraine.
This list I took from fresh search of ukr.net
Looking for inprisoned "purely because of posts in fb" will take more time, I don't collect links. But they were. And many of my friends stopped using social networks because of fear to be persecuted.

Why do you ignore my mentioning of Kotsaba and Sharij?
Kotsaba spent 3,5 year in prison because of his publication in fb.
Sharij is forced to live in Europe because he is not journalist working for mainstream.
Both always prove their words with facts. Both show ugly face of today's regime of Ukraine.

Let's also mention web site 'mirotvorets' created by deputy of internal affairs minister. Names, addresses and phones of antigovernment activists are published there. Several persons were killed by radicals including writer Oles' Buzina.
Is that normal too?

Figures... look thoroughly. I have found all I wanted but you simply don't want to.

Refusal to enter the country is always based on something. Not in my case. And there were numerous of such cases like mine.


----------



## Eugene

Igrok_ said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this really happened to you, then I want to apologize for my assumption. After a couple of years of communicating with the Russians on forums, I have got used to not trusting them.
> 
> 
> 
> I had only one try and was unlucky. The most stupid about Ukraine is that rules are changed too often and you never know which surprise is prepared for you for the next time.
> There are a lot of cases such as mine.
> My friends tell me that now I can visit Ukraine without any problems and I believe them but I don't believe to nazis who rule the country now.
> 
> If journalist from western Ukraine spent 2 years in jail for truth about Donbass (Ruslan Kotsaba) is well known case many others are kept silent. Another journalist Anatolia Sharij is forced to live in Europe...check his channel in YouTube, he has many videos with English subtitles. A lot of new you can know from him. These 2 guys always prove their words, never just say.
> There are people in Ukraine sitting in jail for their posts in fb.
> 
> As for trusting Russians, I don't see any difference between any human beings but I see that some stereotypes do present. And some of them are created artificially. "Never trust Russians" is one of them.
> People are different everywhere, points of view are different, political preferences differ... As far as I can judge very few Russians visit foreign forums. They are either so called liberals but in fact people hating Russia and everything Russian or rare idiots like me hoping that their opinion may be heard at the other side of the earth.
> Look how many different opinions here, and the same is in Russian forums.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote above this thing:
> _In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away. _
> 
> If you are not a Ukrainian citizen, then I don’t understand what the underlined statement is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I guess you're right. A kind of misunderstanding.. I have all papers - right for living, for any kind of activity in Ukraine but not passport as I didn't want it. But I never supposed myself an alien in the land I was born and was living all my life.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have checked fresh statistics and here are some official figures:
> 600,000 Ukrainians got Russian citizenship in 2014-2015
> 1,320,000 Ukrainians got official status of refugee.
> 600,000 Ukrainians are considered to be illegal migrants.
> 2,500,000 - 3,000,000 (this figure floats time to time) of Ukrainians stay in Russia as temporary workers. Ukrainian Foreign Ministry says it is 4 million.
> 
> So here are official figures. Go and check them. They are open.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The weird thing about these figures is that they vary from one source to another. Do you have a direct link to the sites where they exposed? Especially about those who get a refugee status.
> 
> And we are talking about people who fled Ukraine and not about those who go to Russia for work, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When writing this post I used 2 sources.
> Official site gks.ru showing figures of statistic general office of Russian Federation - GosKomStat (Federal Commetee of Statistics).
> And statdata.ru which is not official but there are many figures there from different open sources. It's more convenient for using and their figures are true, checked for many times before.
> They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dear Eugene,
> 
> according to your feelings, how many Chinese people in russian Far East in comparison to the russian population?
> 
> much more interesting subject to discuss
Click to expand...

Not so much in fact. Less than 1%. 
But we have many Uzbeks here last 5-7 years.


----------



## Igrok_

Eugene said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this really happened to you, then I want to apologize for my assumption. After a couple of years of communicating with the Russians on forums, I have got used to not trusting them.
> 
> 
> 
> I had only one try and was unlucky. The most stupid about Ukraine is that rules are changed too often and you never know which surprise is prepared for you for the next time.
> There are a lot of cases such as mine.
> My friends tell me that now I can visit Ukraine without any problems and I believe them but I don't believe to nazis who rule the country now.
> 
> If journalist from western Ukraine spent 2 years in jail for truth about Donbass (Ruslan Kotsaba) is well known case many others are kept silent. Another journalist Anatolia Sharij is forced to live in Europe...check his channel in YouTube, he has many videos with English subtitles. A lot of new you can know from him. These 2 guys always prove their words, never just say.
> There are people in Ukraine sitting in jail for their posts in fb.
> 
> As for trusting Russians, I don't see any difference between any human beings but I see that some stereotypes do present. And some of them are created artificially. "Never trust Russians" is one of them.
> People are different everywhere, points of view are different, political preferences differ... As far as I can judge very few Russians visit foreign forums. They are either so called liberals but in fact people hating Russia and everything Russian or rare idiots like me hoping that their opinion may be heard at the other side of the earth.
> Look how many different opinions here, and the same is in Russian forums.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wrote above this thing:
> _In 2016 I tried to visit Kiev and was not allowed by kiev's customs. As they said "you are alone without family which means that you are terrorist willing to go to Donbass for fighting against Ukrainian army. Do you understand how government is afraid of its own citizens? So I was forced to take a plane and fly away. _
> 
> If you are not a Ukrainian citizen, then I don’t understand what the underlined statement is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I guess you're right. A kind of misunderstanding.. I have all papers - right for living, for any kind of activity in Ukraine but not passport as I didn't want it. But I never supposed myself an alien in the land I was born and was living all my life.
> 
> 
> 
> ESay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have checked fresh statistics and here are some official figures:
> 600,000 Ukrainians got Russian citizenship in 2014-2015
> 1,320,000 Ukrainians got official status of refugee.
> 600,000 Ukrainians are considered to be illegal migrants.
> 2,500,000 - 3,000,000 (this figure floats time to time) of Ukrainians stay in Russia as temporary workers. Ukrainian Foreign Ministry says it is 4 million.
> 
> So here are official figures. Go and check them. They are open.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The weird thing about these figures is that they vary from one source to another. Do you have a direct link to the sites where they exposed? Especially about those who get a refugee status.
> 
> And we are talking about people who fled Ukraine and not about those who go to Russia for work, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When writing this post I used 2 sources.
> Official site gks.ru showing figures of statistic general office of Russian Federation - GosKomStat (Federal Commetee of Statistics).
> And statdata.ru which is not official but there are many figures there from different open sources. It's more convenient for using and their figures are true, checked for many times before.
> They are both Russian. Try to use online translation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dear Eugene,
> 
> according to your feelings, how many Chinese people in russian Far East in comparison to the russian population?
> 
> much more interesting subject to discuss
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not so much in fact. Less than 1%.
> But we have many Uzbeks here last 5-7 years.
Click to expand...

good


----------



## ESay

Eugene said:


> Why do you ignore my mentioning of Kotsaba and Sharij?
> Kotsaba spent 3,5 year in prison because of his publication in fb.
> Sharij is forced to live in Europe because he is not journalist working for mainstream.
> Both always prove their words with facts. Both show ugly face of today's regime of Ukraine.


What can I say about them? Kotsaba spent one and a half year (not 3.5 years) in prison because of public calls against mobilization. Then he was freed and his case was closed by a higher court. Was he imprisoned for his beliefs? Yes, it seems he was.

I don’t know much about Sharij. I have seen some of his videos on Youtube. He maybe says right things sometimes, but does it one-sidedly. Definitely a witty guy. He fled Ukraine when Yanukovych was the president.



Eugene said:


> Let's also mention web site 'mirotvorets' created by deputy of internal affairs minister. Names, addresses and phones of antigovernment activists are published there. Several persons were killed by radicals including writer Oles' Buzina.
> Is that normal too?


I have never visited the site of Mirotvorets. If there personal information of some people is exposed, then no, it isn’t normal.



Eugene said:


> Figures... look thoroughly. I have found all I wanted but you simply don't want to.


You virtually refused to confirm your words by official data. It is your right.



Eugene said:


> Refusal to enter the country is always based on something. Not in my case. And there were numerous of such cases like mine.


Of course, there is always a reason. You are citizen of the country which officially considered as aggressor in Ukraine. You can’t ignore this fact and behave as if nothing happened.


----------



## Marion Morrison

Comrade Johnson said:


> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.



He shouldn't run his government so crookedly. Also, he owes Shell corporation a lot of money.


----------



## Eugene

ESay said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you ignore my mentioning of Kotsaba and Sharij?
> Kotsaba spent 3,5 year in prison because of his publication in fb.
> Sharij is forced to live in Europe because he is not journalist working for mainstream.
> Both always prove their words with facts. Both show ugly face of today's regime of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say about them? Kotsaba spent one and a half year (not 3.5 years) in prison because of public calls against mobilization. Then he was freed and his case was closed by a higher court. Was he imprisoned for his beliefs? Yes, it seems he was.
> 
> I don’t know much about Sharij. I have seen some of his videos on Youtube. He maybe says right things sometimes, but does it one-sidedly. Definitely a witty guy. He fled Ukraine when Yanukovych was the president.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's also mention web site 'mirotvorets' created by deputy of internal affairs minister. Names, addresses and phones of antigovernment activists are published there. Several persons were killed by radicals including writer Oles' Buzina.
> Is that normal too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have never visited the site of Mirotvorets. If there personal information of some people is exposed, then no, it isn’t normal.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Figures... look thoroughly. I have found all I wanted but you simply don't want to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You virtually refused to confirm your words by official data. It is your right.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Refusal to enter the country is always based on something. Not in my case. And there were numerous of such cases like mine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course, there is always a reason. You are citizen of the country which officially considered as aggressor in Ukraine. You can’t ignore this fact and behave as if nothing happened.
Click to expand...

About statistics regarding to Ukrainian refugees in Russia. 
I wrote approximate figures from my head, checked some in sites mentioned for you above. 
Now I tried to find more accurate data and it is really very complicated question. 
Here is one of the articles where discussed subject is described:
Депортация украинцев из России в 2017 году

Kotsaba was sentenced to 3,5 years. Maybe he was freed earlier. Good. 
Sharij doesn't look one-sidedly for me. He has a lot of critics against Russia as well and I disagree with him in some matters but he shows the criminal face of today's Ukrainian authorities with proves that can hardly be refuted. 

As for 'Mirotvorets' simply check it yourself. 
сайт Миротворец. Последние новости по тегу сайт Миротворец - Strana
Ukrainian link. Such as you won't believe to Russian one.


----------



## Eugene

Marion Morrison said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He shouldn't run his government so crookedly. Also, he owes Shell corporation a lot of money.
Click to expand...

Thanks to his "crookedly" running Russia grows and becomes more wealthy and stronger.
Simply check statistics available in Wikipedia.
Economy of Russia - Wikipedia


----------



## PK1

Eugene said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an ethnic Russian, and were living in western Ukraine. Your story is similar to many ethnic Ukrainians who lived in Donbas (eastern Ukraine), but in *REVERSE*.
> Under the Russian separatists, directed by Russian "volunteers" from Moscow & other parts of Russia, the Ukrainians living in their own homeland, in Donbas, and who did not want to separate, were also terrorized, killed, or forced to leave. A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!
> 
> I'm glad you & family survived & are doing OK now.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnically I am Ukrainian, born by Ukrainians in Ukraine. But I refuse to call myself Ukrainian  because I don't admit that such nation exists.
> 
> If we go back to 9th century ...
> If one knows history he will realize that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, ...
> 
> Back to the subject.
> In Donbass not Russians came to fight but Ukrainians from west came to fight! Donbass' citizens fight against Kiev. Kiev shots civilians. Recently I posted here video of air strikes over center of Luhansk. And there are many other proves of Ukrainian aggression against civilians.
> Of course a lot of refugees from Donbass went to west, I suppose equal quantity as those left for Russia. They run not basing on their political preferences but they chose where it would be easier for them to live - relatives, friends etc.
> People living in Donbass are not supposed to be Ukrainians by nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine  ...
Click to expand...

If you do not think the Ukraine nation should exist, and that Ukrainians are really Russian, then you are obviously "Russian". Are you also a Putin troll paid by the Kremlin?

I know both Russian & Ukrainian immigrants here in USA that would not only disagree with your Russian nationalistic (nazi?) comments, but would label you a traitor if you really were born in Ukraine from ethnic Ukrainian parents. Almost like saying "Russians" are really "Ukrainians" (Kievan-Rus) because Kiev existed hundreds of years before Moscow!
And as stupid as saying Austria is really Germany, or Portugal is really Spain.


----------



## Eugene

PK1 said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an ethnic Russian, and were living in western Ukraine. Your story is similar to many ethnic Ukrainians who lived in Donbas (eastern Ukraine), but in *REVERSE*.
> Under the Russian separatists, directed by Russian "volunteers" from Moscow & other parts of Russia, the Ukrainians living in their own homeland, in Donbas, and who did not want to separate, were also terrorized, killed, or forced to leave. A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!
> 
> I'm glad you & family survived & are doing OK now.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnically I am Ukrainian, born by Ukrainians in Ukraine. But I refuse to call myself Ukrainian  because I don't admit that such nation exists.
> 
> If we go back to 9th century ...
> If one knows history he will realize that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, ...
> 
> Back to the subject.
> In Donbass not Russians came to fight but Ukrainians from west came to fight! Donbass' citizens fight against Kiev. Kiev shots civilians. Recently I posted here video of air strikes over center of Luhansk. And there are many other proves of Ukrainian aggression against civilians.
> Of course a lot of refugees from Donbass went to west, I suppose equal quantity as those left for Russia. They run not basing on their political preferences but they chose where it would be easier for them to live - relatives, friends etc.
> People living in Donbass are not supposed to be Ukrainians by nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you do not think the Ukraine nation should exist, and that Ukrainians are really Russian, then you are obviously "Russian". Are you also a Putin troll paid by the Kremlin?
> 
> I know both Russian & Ukrainian immigrants here in USA that would not only disagree with your Russian nationalistic (nazi?) comments, but would label you a traitor if you really were born in Ukraine from ethnic Ukrainian parents. Almost like saying "Russians" are really "Ukrainians" (Kievan-Rus) because Kiev existed hundreds of years before Moscow!
> And as stupid as saying Austria is really Germany, or Portugal is really Spain.
Click to expand...

If someone agrees the policy of Putin's authorities and defends his points he is certainly a paid troll right?
I simply compare what kind of Russia we had in 90s and how it began to change after his coming. 

I never told Ukrainian nation should not exist, I told that I don't admit it is a separate nation. Read my post #204. 
Maybe it is a nation....100years old, just like kazakhs, azerbaijanians and some others created in the beginning of 20th century. 
You blame me having nazist position but I never placed some nation above others which is the main idea of Nazism. And I live in Russia country of more than 200 nations living together for ages...so "Russian nationalism" in our authority's policy is fake created by your fake media. 
Traitors are those your friends who left their motherland in hard years.


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know lots of Russians that live here and wants to kill putin. You are not being honest.
> 1. So why are people get arrested when they demonstrating peacefully?
> 2. Freedom of speak in your kitchen but not freedom as you publish your opinion to the public.
> 3. Your media are in total control by Putin and his cronies.
> 4. Didn't they just had a demonstration against corruption but they arrested all the leaders?
> 5. Give me one example that non Russian like me would consider Putin a nice guy.
> 6. Why political opponents are being murdered?
> 7.  They are rounding up gays and lesbians.
> 
> Those are facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of Russian living in the USA are poisoned by your propaganda. Or how can you explain such a high level of putin's popularity in Russia? There are numerous social interviews proving that, anonymous as well, organized by foreign organizations as well.
> 
> 1. Last arrests were 12 of April. The strictest punishment was 15 days in jail. Only those were arrested who organized meetings in not approved by local authorities places. They are all free now.
> Let's recall how American authorities act against such demonstrations - occupy Wall Street, recent rallies in Dakota, anti-police violence rallies...
> Remember in October 2013 woman was shot near capitoleum?
> 
> 2. Freedom of publication of any opinions. You may check web sites, video blogs, tv and radio channels who everyday express their anti government statements. On central tv channels there are many political talk shows where opposing people are invited. About a month ago there was video call to Ukrainian general who could say whatever he wanted. And he expressed his being surprised in Ukrainian media next day.
> 
> 3. Nothing of the kind. Read the previous point.
> 
> 4. Not all but few of them. Those who violated the law. And the are free now.
> 
> 5. One reason. If you stop blindly believe to your mainstream media and start look for more alternative sources. If you try to think on who is the one getting benefit from one case or another. In that case after about month or two you will realize that Western policy is sick and western media are filled with lies and propaganda. Than you will understand who does better for the world in common, who is honest.
> Why Russia suddenly became so bad? They only wanted not to be touched not to be threatened... but when the USA began to organize color revolutions around Russia they had to protect themselves. Isn't it? When the USA settled rocket systems in Eastern Europe why shouldn't it supposed to be a threat? What would happen if Russian set rockets in Cuba, Venezuela? If Russia would change regime in Mexico?
> Try to imagine mirror situation for more objective points of view.
> 
> 6. Who is murdered? Nemtsov?
> He was not so popular. He was in opposition for many years and nobody killed him. And do you really believe Putin is so stupid to organize murder in front of kremlin? The same bs as in Litvinenko case where western official point of view is "plutonium was used to murder him". Plutonium. Right for easier tracking who did it.
> Weren't suspicious deaths of those who were opposing Clinton while your recent elections?
> 
> 7. Who and where rounds up gays? I would place them to special clinics for curing but Russian authorities don't do it.
> All we have against homosexuals is the only law: propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. Gay parades sometimes are organized but our people are very negative to them do police is forced to protect them. Why cannot people follow their Christianic values why should we protect sick idiots?
> The position of most Russians about gays is: if you wish to fuck ass - do it! But do it quietly at home and don't involve normal people or especially children in your perversion.
> 
> All you posted are not facts. But what you suppose to be facts.
> 
> All I posted may be checked in internet. So do it please.
Click to expand...


Do you expect me to believe all or any of that? 

Putin's popularity at 85% in Russia is a joke ------ why not 95%? 
1, 2, 3, 4. We are free demonstrate anyplace and anytime. Sometimes people do get killed during demonstrations but that doesn't stop us from expressing our freedom. Im supposed to believe that Russian media are not controlled by Putin and his cronies? Read the link below. Am I supposed to believe that the whole world is against Putin? 
5. The only reason those missiles was in placed in Poland and Romania and the deployment of US troops----- is because of Putin invasion of Ukraine. 
Your example of Cuba and Venezuela is dishonest. Did we threatened to invade Cuba and Venezuela? Hell no. And why in the world we will invade those countries? At what reason? Except that Hugo is lunatic.  
6. So you are saying that all the political opponents that was murdered are fake? Killed by the west then blame Putin?  
Suspicious death opposing Clinton? Like what? 
7.  So you are saying in GENERAL that gays are having sex public all over the nation? Really? 

WHY in the world I will search the Internet for you? YOU posted all these distorted propaganda it's your job to post any links to support your claim.  NOT me. 


How censorship works in Vladimir Putin’s Russia

Russian police round up LGBT activists demonstrating against persecution of gay men in Chechnya


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... So who is training the sophisticated Russian anti aircraft separatists in Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean MH17?
> You can see how western propaganda works. Everyone in west is sure that rebels splashed that Boeing and no one ever says that it could be done by Ukrainians.
> 
> Ok. Here are some facts.
> After Ukrainian army started air strikes against civilian objects (  )
> Rebels started using Igla (soviet analog of Stinger but more accurate one). And they splashed several planes. But of course it may shoot at low heights from 10 meters to 3500.
> Ukrainians decided to organize huge provocation. And they splashed Boeing 777.
> 1. When it happened? A day before meeting of European Union leaders when they decided to discuss sanctions against Russia. Of course the result was - sanctions were admitted.
> 2. Before being splashed Boeing had changed its height and course. Why? Who could order? Only dispatcher...Ukrainian one. But Ukrainians still haven't provided that tape to investigators.
> 3. 2 days later Russian military provided all records of radar control but Americans haven't though they had awacs there. Why?
> 4. International investigators were invited immediately to Donbass by rebels and were insured there won't be fire from their side. Ukrainian army started massive shelling of Grabovo - small village where Boeing fell down though there weren't any rebels' soldiers there. After almost a month investigators could get to the place. By that moment black boxes were found and given to them by rebels without any clauses.
> 5. Parts of the plane were not driven away for almost a year. How did they plan to investigate? Or may be they didn't plan to?
> 6. Russia's producer of "Buk" (anti air system used for splashing) organized full demonstration on how their system works. They shown where the rocket could come from, what kind of damage it will cause and explained the difference between old 'Buk' available to Ukrainians and new one which is Russian. But their information was ignored.
> 7. Ukrainian dispatcher disappeared.
> 
> ...too many questions. And these are just from my head and I am not a specialist.
Click to expand...


Coming from Putin defense---- Link?


----------



## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have multi quotes so I have to sent my rebuttal this way.
> 
> As far as I know I have a freedom of speech, press, religion, gathering, assembly etc etc. In Russia you get arrested just by expressing your freedom of speech against corruption. You also get arrested or round up just by being a gay.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me answer as a person living in Russia.
> I have absolute freedom to speak whatever I think about anything. Those who don't like Putin and his policy a free to speak about it...in kitchen talks, in mass media anywhere.
> Press. We have numerous media resources freely showing their disagreement to Putin. We have here free of payment foreign tv-channels (if you wish I may make a photo of my tv screen to prove my words)
> Assembly or meeting are not forbidden but if talking about mass meetings it should be approved by local authorities beforehand. That rule take place in almost every country in the world.
> Religion. Absolute freedom. We have here a lot of muslims, buddists and non-orthodox christians have their own churches as well - there is catholic one not far from my home.
> Arrests for taking part in meetings happen only when one violates the law: either meeting was not allowed or there were some criminal violations against police, other people or some property.
> Gays are not forbidden and not being arrested. But propaganda of homosexuality among children is forbidden. As for me I would catch homosexuals and place them into special clinics - them is a disease, affront of human nature and religion values.
> 
> So, all those statements you posted about Russia is absolute lie. If you don't believe me I can even invite you to visit me and to see the real picture yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know lots of Russians that live here and wants to kill putin. You are not being honest.
> 1. So why are people get arrested when they demonstrating peacefully?
> 2. Freedom of speak in your kitchen but not freedom as you publish your opinion to the public.
> 3. Your media are in total control by Putin and his cronies.
> 4. Didn't they just had a demonstration against corruption but they arrested all the leaders?
> 5. Give me one example that non Russian like me would consider Putin a nice guy.
> 6. Why political opponents are being murdered?
> 7.  They are rounding up gays and lesbians.
> 
> Those are facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ha-ha, I have different sight on this, because I'm here...
> 1. No one peaceful demonstrants were arrested. If you violate the law and organize mass demonstration without informing of authorities - they'll just stop it. But offcourse police arrests hooligans. You're seeing from media picture, how "tiny girl arrested by huge policemans"... They're not showing a size of stone, this girl threw at head of one policeman. Yes, policemen are brave guys, but they permanently get damage from this "peaceful" demonstrants...
> 
> 2. I have a blog, where I writing everything I think. It periodically attacked by "liberals", that hate people, having different opinion. But no one from authorities could forbid my blog.
> 
> 3. All Russian media are controlled by their financial owners. Putin doesn't relate anything to this control
> 
> 6. Not murdered, but prisoned... But in fact, for the real crime... Damn, this authorities leave many swindlers, walking free - that's real crime of authorities. They MUST keep law - instead of it they looking at media, you watch and "try not to prison Putin's political opponents" instead of what they MUST do.
> 
> 7. About gays and lesbian - yes, they are forced to have EQUAL rights with other people in Russia, not to be privileged. Offcourse, it's a serious crime for western world, discriminating WASPs...
Click to expand...


All I can tell you is I'm LMAO. 
You can flip -----  INPUT, NIPUT UTPIN, INTUP ----- However you want there is nothing good coming out for PUTIN.


----------



## charwin95

Sbiker said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A dictators or rulers like Stalin cannot be proven corrupt or not because they rule the country------ so it's hard to proved without check and balance.
> Communism is p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You can do it after their death. Stalin had nothing...
> 
> 2. What is corruption? Corruption is using power of authority to reach targets, non-coordinated with targets of authority. True dictator DEFINES targets for authority. So, he cannot be corrupted. It's a simple logic, like 2+2, and it's a small step to reduce media zombifying and having own opinion.
> 
> 3. P.S. I've read definition of corruption in wiki... In according with it EVERY politician is corrupted, just because he has a salary. But if every politician is corrupted, why do we have to use this term in general?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I pressed send prematurely so I redid my post.
> 
> 1. Communism is no better than Hitler dictatorship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't touch both. Hitler's invasion murdered some of my relatives. Communism not.
> 
> Welfare state, so good for you - is just an answer for Communism. Without it, you could have capitalism in Jack London style and much more furious.
> 
> Do you know, why your propaganda dislike communism? Because it MORE EFFECTIVE economically. Look at China and Vietnam and compare dynamics with US economics...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why did communism died?
> 
> Without US both Vietnam and China will be like Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People.. Practice shows, not every people able to live in communist society.
> 
> Look around. IT companies like Google widely use de-facto communist practices to organize employees - and have success. But this employees are high-qualified and educated specialists...And much companies cannot do something just because of quality of employees... USSR fallen because of mentality of current active generation... If it could live about 10-20 years else, for the new generation - I think, it would have much more chances to stay alive. But not all is lost - СССР-2061: Главная
Click to expand...


Link?


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...BTW didn't you just said you escaped from Ukraine because of putin invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> I've written the reason of my escape above.
> Do you have proves of Putin's invasion?
> Even Department of State said that they don't have proves of Russian army presence in Ukraine.
> 
> And I ran from Kiev overfilled by nazis backed by USAEU.
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commodities in Russia are soaring, population is dwindling, brain drain-------  Sorry but I don't see any good news coming out from Russia but hardship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which is true- imported goods became 50% more expensive. And it is one of the main claims to our government and their ruling the economy. But you shouldn't forget that our economy was ruined by you and only after 2001-2002 we started building something. Now we may base mostly on resources but it will not last long, don't worry.
> Anyway people do not suffer that much as your media tell. For example the lowest salary in my company is $1000 while 500 is enough for eating and paying for а flat. If you wish I may send you my recent check from supermarket do that you could compare prices.
> 
> Population. You got old info.
> And thanks for mentioning this subject - in this picture one can notice that situation with population became better after Putin's coming.
> View attachment 127435
> This is official statistics.
> As you can see we are in positive figures now.
> And pay attention at 2014 - a lot of people from Ukraine came to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From outsider what is there for me that Putin is a good guy not a thug-------- considering he currently supply arms to Iran and Syria that supports terrorism in ME and elsewhere in the region.
> Just imagine if the US is the not there. The whole ME will be so screwed up as it is with the help of  Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are simply propaganda words without any proves.
> Here is interesting video which make me believe that West is not fatally sick. You still have honest people.
> I like her answering questions at 13:30 most of all.
> She is saying true facts.
> 
> And now just imagine if USA wasn't there what would happen? There won't be a war and suffering people!
Click to expand...


Bullshit.  So what are the Russians doing in Crimea? Having a party? 

Crippling sanctions was only applied after Putin  invasion ------------ so blame it on Putin. 

Are you denying that Putin is not supplying arms to Syria and Iran?

Russia's population peaked from 149 millions in 1991 to 144 millions in 2015 Crimea included. That's 24 years. Why do you lie? 


Russia Expected to Lose 32 Million People by 2050

Russian Demographics: The Perfect Storm | YaleGlobal Online


----------



## Igrok_

Remember all: Ukraine will be included into Russian territory again. Do not know when, but still. Everybody who follows the news about this country knows it. By recent period this under-country have been living upon the IMF credits. The time to return them is near.

By the way, today's news: Ukrainian industry outcome has fallen by 6.1% in comparison with April year ago.


----------



## charwin95

mudwhistle said:


> Comrade Johnson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only honest answers, please. And of course, any comparison with Mr Trump is welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin's a corrupt asshole......but he's more honest than any Democrat and much more honest than our media.
Click to expand...


Your brain is always full of MUD.


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> Ima Cat said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 127757
> 
> Vladimir Putin rescuing an endangered snow leopard, kindness quelling the cat's natural fear of man.
> 
> 
> 
> 4 months ago that leopard died in car accident (((
> 2 months ago new road with tunnel under that forest was finished.
> It is 200 km away from me
Click to expand...


That's nice.

BTW------ You've been here for over 3 years and you have a very very limited post.
Are they charging you by the character? Just wondering.

Just checked your profile and every time every time I checked someone's profile-------- I became a follower. Not sure why it does that.


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...BTW didn't you just said you escaped from Ukraine because of putin invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> I've written the reason of my escape above.
> Do you have proves of Putin's invasion?
> Even Department of State said that they don't have proves of Russian army presence in Ukraine.
> 
> And I ran from Kiev overfilled by nazis backed by USAEU.
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commodities in Russia are soaring, population is dwindling, brain drain-------  Sorry but I don't see any good news coming out from Russia but hardship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which is true- imported goods became 50% more expensive. And it is one of the main claims to our government and their ruling the economy. But you shouldn't forget that our economy was ruined by you and only after 2001-2002 we started building something. Now we may base mostly on resources but it will not last long, don't worry.
> Anyway people do not suffer that much as your media tell. For example the lowest salary in my company is $1000 while 500 is enough for eating and paying for а flat. If you wish I may send you my recent check from supermarket do that you could compare prices.
> 
> Population. You got old info.
> And thanks for mentioning this subject - in this picture one can notice that situation with population became better after Putin's coming.
> View attachment 127435
> This is official statistics.
> As you can see we are in positive figures now.
> And pay attention at 2014 - a lot of people from Ukraine came to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From outsider what is there for me that Putin is a good guy not a thug-------- considering he currently supply arms to Iran and Syria that supports terrorism in ME and elsewhere in the region.
> Just imagine if the US is the not there. The whole ME will be so screwed up as it is with the help of  Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are simply propaganda words without any proves.
> Here is interesting video which make me believe that West is not fatally sick. You still have honest people.
> I like her answering questions at 13:30 most of all.
> She is saying true facts.
> 
> And now just imagine if USA wasn't there what would happen? There won't be a war and suffering people!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  So what are the Russians doing in Crimea? Having a party?
> 
> Crippling sanctions was only applied after Putin  invasion ------------ so blame it on Putin.
> 
> Are you denying that Putin is not supplying arms to Syria and Iran?
> 
> Russia's population peaked from 149 millions in 1991 to 144 millions in 2015 Crimea included. That's 24 years. Why do you lie?
> 
> 
> Russia Expected to Lose 32 Million People by 2050
> 
> Russian Demographics: The Perfect Storm | YaleGlobal Online
Click to expand...

Russian demographics. Simply check statistics.
Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia
After Putin's coming the situation became changing for better according to figures.
But you will never accept is like a fact.

All I posted in 1-7 points may be checked easily. But in your media truth about Russia is not welcome. They lie much.
Remember how it was in Sochi while Olympics? Fake about double toilets, wolves in hotels and other bs alike. And what people said after returning back to the USA/Canada?

Syria and Iran get Russian weapon on absolutely legal grounds as well as Qatar, Saudi, Pakistan and others get it from on the US.
But in Syria Russia supplies authorities while the USA supplied terrorists.

As for US missile defense the decision to place them in Eastern Europe was in 2007. What invasion to Ukraine are you talking about?
United States national missile defense - Wikipedia

Besides what can you say about Russian invasion to Ukraine in 2014? Do you have any facts?
Even Department of State officially stated that they have no reliable proofs of Russian army's presence in Ukraine. Either you lie or them.
Or maybe you simply blindly believe to your mainstream fake media?

Crimea. What do you know about Crimea?
It's history, real wishes of people living there?
NATO plans of building base in Sevastopol...
How many were killed while this terrible annexation and how people live there today in comparison to Ukraine.

Before writing that bs about Russia you better visit it and check some facts by yourself. If you wish I may meet you in Vladivostok- city I live. You will visit my home, get acquainted to my wife and sons...will see my job that gives me money... do it if you really are looking for truth.


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ima Cat said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 127757
> 
> Vladimir Putin rescuing an endangered snow leopard, kindness quelling the cat's natural fear of man.
> 
> 
> 
> 4 months ago that leopard died in car accident (((
> 2 months ago new road with tunnel under that forest was finished.
> It is 200 km away from me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nice.
> 
> BTW------ You've been here for over 3 years and you have a very very limited post.
> Are they charging you by the character? Just wondering.
> 
> Just checked your profile and every time every time I checked someone's profile-------- I became a follower. Not sure why it does that.
Click to expand...

Long ago I came here as I was curious what Americans think about some political affairs. Wrote some posts...
After some time passed I recalled it and came here again. 
Is it strange?
If you cannot prove that I am being paid for my posts than stop lying! I have static ip, check it and you will see where I am situated geographically. You may make a phone call to me if you wish (but my English is not good). 
I haven't caught the idea - after visiting someone's profile you always become a follower...what is that?


----------



## PK1

Eugene said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an ethnic Russian, and were living in western Ukraine. Your story is similar to many ethnic Ukrainians who lived in Donbas (eastern Ukraine), but in *REVERSE*.
> Under the Russian separatists, directed by Russian "volunteers" from Moscow & other parts of Russia, the Ukrainians living in their own homeland, in Donbas, and who did not want to separate, were also terrorized, killed, or forced to leave. A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!
> 
> I'm glad you & family survived & are doing OK now.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnically I am Ukrainian, born by Ukrainians in Ukraine. But I refuse to call myself Ukrainian  because I don't admit that such nation exists.
> 
> If we go back to 9th century ...
> If one knows history he will realize that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, ...
> 
> Back to the subject.
> In Donbass not Russians came to fight but Ukrainians from west came to fight! Donbass' citizens fight against Kiev. Kiev shots civilians. Recently I posted here video of air strikes over center of Luhansk. And there are many other proves of Ukrainian aggression against civilians.
> Of course a lot of refugees from Donbass went to west, I suppose equal quantity as those left for Russia. They run not basing on their political preferences but they chose where it would be easier for them to live - relatives, friends etc.
> People living in Donbass are not supposed to be Ukrainians by nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you do not think the Ukraine nation should exist, and that Ukrainians are really Russian, then you are obviously "Russian". Are you also a Putin troll paid by the Kremlin?
> 
> I know both Russian & Ukrainian immigrants here in USA that would not only disagree with your Russian nationalistic (nazi?) comments, but would label you a traitor if you really were born in Ukraine from ethnic Ukrainian parents. Almost like saying "Russians" are really "Ukrainians" (Kievan-Rus) because Kiev existed hundreds of years before Moscow!
> And as stupid as saying Austria is really Germany, or Portugal is really Spain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone agrees the policy of Putin's authorities and defends his points he is certainly a paid troll right?
> I simply compare what kind of Russia we had in 90s and how it began to change after his coming.
> 
> I never told Ukrainian nation should not exist, I told that I don't admit it is a separate nation. Read my post #204.
> Maybe it is a nation....100years old, just like kazakhs, azerbaijanians and some others created in the beginning of 20th century.
> You blame me having nazist position but I never placed some nation above others which is the main idea of Nazism. And I live in Russia country of more than 200 nations living together for ages...so "Russian nationalism" in our authority's policy is fake created by your fake media.
> Traitors are those your friends who left their motherland in hard years.
Click to expand...

You don't "admit" that Ukraine is a separate nation from Russia? LOL!
That is Russian nationalism! Or, are you providing evidence for fake news?

Sorry to remind you, but Ukraine has been a separate independent nation since 1991, and should have been completely independent 100+ years ago, but Russian nationalists imposed their military will to subjugate the Ukrainians, who have their own language & culture.
My Russian friends/dissidents would love to return to Russia, if it was safe for them. They don't want to get hurt or murdered, however; they despise Putin & those who like Stalin, communism, or the policies of Soviet Union.


----------



## Eugene

PK1 said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an ethnic Russian, and were living in western Ukraine. Your story is similar to many ethnic Ukrainians who lived in Donbas (eastern Ukraine), but in *REVERSE*.
> Under the Russian separatists, directed by Russian "volunteers" from Moscow & other parts of Russia, the Ukrainians living in their own homeland, in Donbas, and who did not want to separate, were also terrorized, killed, or forced to leave. A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!
> 
> I'm glad you & family survived & are doing OK now.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnically I am Ukrainian, born by Ukrainians in Ukraine. But I refuse to call myself Ukrainian  because I don't admit that such nation exists.
> 
> If we go back to 9th century ...
> If one knows history he will realize that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, ...
> 
> Back to the subject.
> In Donbass not Russians came to fight but Ukrainians from west came to fight! Donbass' citizens fight against Kiev. Kiev shots civilians. Recently I posted here video of air strikes over center of Luhansk. And there are many other proves of Ukrainian aggression against civilians.
> Of course a lot of refugees from Donbass went to west, I suppose equal quantity as those left for Russia. They run not basing on their political preferences but they chose where it would be easier for them to live - relatives, friends etc.
> People living in Donbass are not supposed to be Ukrainians by nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you do not think the Ukraine nation should exist, and that Ukrainians are really Russian, then you are obviously "Russian". Are you also a Putin troll paid by the Kremlin?
> 
> I know both Russian & Ukrainian immigrants here in USA that would not only disagree with your Russian nationalistic (nazi?) comments, but would label you a traitor if you really were born in Ukraine from ethnic Ukrainian parents. Almost like saying "Russians" are really "Ukrainians" (Kievan-Rus) because Kiev existed hundreds of years before Moscow!
> And as stupid as saying Austria is really Germany, or Portugal is really Spain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone agrees the policy of Putin's authorities and defends his points he is certainly a paid troll right?
> I simply compare what kind of Russia we had in 90s and how it began to change after his coming.
> 
> I never told Ukrainian nation should not exist, I told that I don't admit it is a separate nation. Read my post #204.
> Maybe it is a nation....100years old, just like kazakhs, azerbaijanians and some others created in the beginning of 20th century.
> You blame me having nazist position but I never placed some nation above others which is the main idea of Nazism. And I live in Russia country of more than 200 nations living together for ages...so "Russian nationalism" in our authority's policy is fake created by your fake media.
> Traitors are those your friends who left their motherland in hard years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't "admit" that Ukraine is a separate nation from Russia? LOL!
> That is Russian nationalism! Or, are you providing evidence for fake news?
> 
> Sorry to remind you, but Ukraine has been a separate independent nation since 1991, and should have been completely independent 100+ years ago, but Russian nationalists imposed their military will to subjugate the Ukrainians, who have their own language & culture.
> My Russian friends/dissidents would love to return to Russia, if it was safe for them. They don't want to get hurt or murdered, however; they despise Putin & those who like Stalin, communism, or the policies of Soviet Union.
Click to expand...

You are clinic idiot. 

Please tell me what is the difference between Russians and Ukrainians; what is Ukrainian culture and how it differs from Russian; when Ukrainian nation appeared. 

as for own language... it is just middle dialect between Russian and Polish. In fact such languages as Russian, Belorussian, Ukrainian, Polish, Czech, Serbian, Bulgarian and some others are dialects of Slavic language. They have less difference between each other than German dialects have or Japanese, or Chinese... but nobody calls Bavarians a separate nation, or Okinawians, or Guangdonians...

As your so called friends/dissidents- they are a result of your sick dreams. No one is afraid now of visiting Russia if he is not criminal. 
Come on, give me their phone numbers. I will make a call and will talk to them. Wish to hear by myself the reasons of their not coming here.


----------



## anotherlife

Shouldn't the Ukraine give its Lvov + Zakarpatie region back to Poland and Slovakia?  If I was Putin, I would divide the European Union further, by making such a promise.  Your opinion?


----------



## PK1

Eugene said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you are an ethnic Russian, and were living in western Ukraine. Your story is similar to many ethnic Ukrainians who lived in Donbas (eastern Ukraine), but in *REVERSE*.
> Under the Russian separatists, directed by Russian "volunteers" from Moscow & other parts of Russia, the Ukrainians living in their own homeland, in Donbas, and who did not want to separate, were also terrorized, killed, or forced to leave. A form of disgusting "ethnic cleansing". Sad!
> 
> I'm glad you & family survived & are doing OK now.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnically I am Ukrainian, born by Ukrainians in Ukraine. But I refuse to call myself Ukrainian  because I don't admit that such nation exists.
> 
> If we go back to 9th century ...
> If one knows history he will realize that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, ...
> 
> Back to the subject.
> In Donbass not Russians came to fight but Ukrainians from west came to fight! Donbass' citizens fight against Kiev. Kiev shots civilians. Recently I posted here video of air strikes over center of Luhansk. And there are many other proves of Ukrainian aggression against civilians.
> Of course a lot of refugees from Donbass went to west, I suppose equal quantity as those left for Russia. They run not basing on their political preferences but they chose where it would be easier for them to live - relatives, friends etc.
> People living in Donbass are not supposed to be Ukrainians by nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine  ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you do not think the Ukraine nation should exist, and that Ukrainians are really Russian, then you are obviously "Russian". Are you also a Putin troll paid by the Kremlin?
> 
> I know both Russian & Ukrainian immigrants here in USA that would not only disagree with your Russian nationalistic (nazi?) comments, but would label you a traitor if you really were born in Ukraine from ethnic Ukrainian parents. Almost like saying "Russians" are really "Ukrainians" (Kievan-Rus) because Kiev existed hundreds of years before Moscow!
> And as stupid as saying Austria is really Germany, or Portugal is really Spain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone agrees the policy of Putin's authorities and defends his points he is certainly a paid troll right?
> I simply compare what kind of Russia we had in 90s and how it began to change after his coming.
> 
> I never told Ukrainian nation should not exist, I told that I don't admit it is a separate nation. Read my post #204.
> Maybe it is a nation....100years old, just like kazakhs, azerbaijanians and some others created in the beginning of 20th century.
> You blame me having nazist position but I never placed some nation above others which is the main idea of Nazism. And I live in Russia country of more than 200 nations living together for ages...so "Russian nationalism" in our authority's policy is fake created by your fake media.
> Traitors are those your friends who left their motherland in hard years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't "admit" that Ukraine is a separate nation from Russia? LOL!
> That is Russian nationalism! Or, are you providing evidence for fake news?
> 
> Sorry to remind you, but Ukraine has been a separate independent nation since 1991, and should have been completely independent 100+ years ago, but Russian nationalists imposed their military will to subjugate the Ukrainians, who have their own language & culture.
> My Russian friends/dissidents would love to return to Russia, if it was safe for them. They don't want to get hurt or murdered, however; they despise Putin & those who like Stalin, communism, or the policies of Soviet Union.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are clinic idiot.
> Please tell me what is the difference between Russians and Ukrainians ...
> as for own language... it is just middle dialect between Russian and Polish. ...
> 
> No one is afraid now of visiting Russia if he is not criminal.
Click to expand...

You must be an imbecile if you think similarities in language/culture means nations should be combined.
Should Poland be absorbed by the larger nation Russia too? Ukrainian is also similar to Polish.
Should Austria be absorbed by Germany?

Dissidents critical of Putin are afraid to return to Russia. If your brain is strained to understand why, then go ahead and contact Kasparov, or Nemtsov. Maybe not Nemtsov (physicist & Russian statesman), since he is DEAD, like journalists who were critical of Putin.


----------



## Eugene

PK1 said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethnically I am Ukrainian, born by Ukrainians in Ukraine. But I refuse to call myself Ukrainian  because I don't admit that such nation exists.
> 
> If we go back to 9th century ...
> If one knows history he will realize that Russians and Ukrainians are one nation, ...
> 
> Back to the subject.
> In Donbass not Russians came to fight but Ukrainians from west came to fight! Donbass' citizens fight against Kiev. Kiev shots civilians. Recently I posted here video of air strikes over center of Luhansk. And there are many other proves of Ukrainian aggression against civilians.
> Of course a lot of refugees from Donbass went to west, I suppose equal quantity as those left for Russia. They run not basing on their political preferences but they chose where it would be easier for them to live - relatives, friends etc.
> People living in Donbass are not supposed to be Ukrainians by nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine  ...
> 
> 
> 
> If you do not think the Ukraine nation should exist, and that Ukrainians are really Russian, then you are obviously "Russian". Are you also a Putin troll paid by the Kremlin?
> 
> I know both Russian & Ukrainian immigrants here in USA that would not only disagree with your Russian nationalistic (nazi?) comments, but would label you a traitor if you really were born in Ukraine from ethnic Ukrainian parents. Almost like saying "Russians" are really "Ukrainians" (Kievan-Rus) because Kiev existed hundreds of years before Moscow!
> And as stupid as saying Austria is really Germany, or Portugal is really Spain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone agrees the policy of Putin's authorities and defends his points he is certainly a paid troll right?
> I simply compare what kind of Russia we had in 90s and how it began to change after his coming.
> 
> I never told Ukrainian nation should not exist, I told that I don't admit it is a separate nation. Read my post #204.
> Maybe it is a nation....100years old, just like kazakhs, azerbaijanians and some others created in the beginning of 20th century.
> You blame me having nazist position but I never placed some nation above others which is the main idea of Nazism. And I live in Russia country of more than 200 nations living together for ages...so "Russian nationalism" in our authority's policy is fake created by your fake media.
> Traitors are those your friends who left their motherland in hard years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't "admit" that Ukraine is a separate nation from Russia? LOL!
> That is Russian nationalism! Or, are you providing evidence for fake news?
> 
> Sorry to remind you, but Ukraine has been a separate independent nation since 1991, and should have been completely independent 100+ years ago, but Russian nationalists imposed their military will to subjugate the Ukrainians, who have their own language & culture.
> My Russian friends/dissidents would love to return to Russia, if it was safe for them. They don't want to get hurt or murdered, however; they despise Putin & those who like Stalin, communism, or the policies of Soviet Union.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are clinic idiot.
> Please tell me what is the difference between Russians and Ukrainians ...
> as for own language... it is just middle dialect between Russian and Polish. ...
> 
> No one is afraid now of visiting Russia if he is not criminal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must be an imbecile if you think similarities in language/culture means nations should be combined.
> Should Poland be absorbed by the larger nation Russia too? Ukrainian is also similar to Polish.
> Should Austria be absorbed by Germany?
> 
> Dissidents critical of Putin are afraid to return to Russia. If your brain is strained to understand why, then go ahead and contact Kasparov, or Nemtsov. Maybe not Nemtsov (physicist & Russian statesman), since he is DEAD, like journalists who were critical of Putin.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that language's similarities mean anything. That was your stupid conclusion out of my words. I mentioned linguistic theme separately from main reasons for nation to be a nation. 
Culture of Ukraine- what is it? Cuisine, traditions, clothes... They are the same as Russian!
Maybe Ukrainians and Russians are different genealogically?

Check the history and find Ukrainians in 19th century or earlier! There are no them! There was great country Rus' (Rossiya). Read my post #204. 

Only Clinton has 83 dead on her life root. Seth Rich, Victor Thorn and his lawer... haven't heard that? Your media doesn't allow to mention it?

Traitors like Kasparov, Kasianov and alike often visit Russia without any persecution. They live and work for money got from abroad aiming to ruin Russian economy and to tear Russia into pieces...are they those who Russian people should follow? And still they are not touched if do not violate the law. Traitors like them, and Yeltsin, and Gorbachev ruled the country and it became weak and even ruined, population decreased, huge criminal grew... And they were good for west. Putin started rebuilding of country and he is bad. You simply afraid of Russia!
There is no murders of political opposition and journalists in Russia not more than in the USA. But you will never believe me, just to your fake news. Well, I can't do anything with it. But if you check every case you will easily find who got benefits out of those murders and as a rule it's not Russian authorities.


----------



## Eugene

anotherlife said:


> Shouldn't the Ukraine give its Lvov + Zakarpatie region back to Poland and Slovakia?  If I was Putin, I would divide the European Union further, by making such a promise.  Your opinion?


Putin was born and lived in the USSR - a country with Lvov and Zakarpat'e in it. So those regions must present by the moment of reunion of Great Russia. 
Though Polish may think other way. Lvov region - Galitsiya was region under Russia's power from very long ago. Shall we give them back to Poland just for their possession of them since 1918 till 1939?

Why should Putin state what to do with those regions? He doesn't invade any territories but Ukraine in common will ask Russia soon to take it as a part of Russia, like Crimea did. A long time will pass - about 50 years of suffering people in Ukraine before they understand that it should be done.


----------



## anotherlife

Eugene said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't the Ukraine give its Lvov + Zakarpatie region back to Poland and Slovakia?  If I was Putin, I would divide the European Union further, by making such a promise.  Your opinion?
> 
> 
> 
> Putin was born and lived in the USSR - a country with Lvov and Zakarpat'e in it. So those regions must present by the moment of reunion of Great Russia.
> Though Polish may think other way. Lvov region - Galitsiya was region under Russia's power from very long ago. Shall we give them back to Poland just for their possession of them since 1918 till 1939?
> 
> Why should Putin state what to do with those regions? He doesn't invade any territories but Ukraine in common will ask Russia soon to take it as a part of Russia, like Crimea did. A long time will pass - about 50 years of suffering people in Ukraine before they understand that it should be done.
Click to expand...


But the point here is Putin's chief enemy, which is the European Union.  Putin knows, that the European Union is a snouty stroppy little bully that mugs and intimidates nations.  In this analysis, poland's national claims can be used to divide the European Union, which many Poles consider a thieving Franco-German empire.


----------



## Igrok_

anotherlife said:


> Shouldn't the Ukraine give its Lvov + Zakarpatie region back to Poland and Slovakia?  If I was Putin, I would divide the European Union further, by making such a promise.  Your opinion?


I think it is honest, cause these lands were captured due to communism regime, and as far as Ukraine is again it, it should return these lands. So is about eastern part of this country, which was included there by Lenin's government. Originally these are russian lands.


----------



## Eugene

I don't agree that Lvov must belong to Poland. 
Historically that region was:
For more than 1000 years region was Slavic, and controlled by Kiev Rus' since Vladimir (10th century). 
4 centuries it was Polish. 
A bit more than century it was Austrian. 
From 1918 till 1939 - Polish again. 
And than it was Ukrainian (as Ukrainians appeared as separate nation). 

So which point of history would it be honest to take into account? 
1941, the year when most of European borders were defined? 
Or maybe 1938, a year before the ww2 began?
Or 1914 - before the ww1?
17th century? 10th?


----------



## anotherlife

Eugene said:


> I don't agree that Lvov must belong to Poland.
> Historically that region was:
> For more than 1000 years region was Slavic, and controlled by Kiev Rus' since Vladimir (10th century).
> 4 centuries it was Polish.
> A bit more than century it was Austrian.
> From 1918 till 1939 - Polish again.
> And than it was Ukrainian (as Ukrainians appeared as separate nation).
> 
> So which point of history would it be honest to take into account?
> 1941, the year when most of European borders were defined?
> Or maybe 1938, a year before the ww2 began?
> Or 1914 - before the ww1?
> 17th century? 10th?



1941 is not when most of European borders were defined, 1947 is. 

And why shall we pick that one too? 

Putin has an advantages with the existence of the borders itself.  The European Union was either dishonest about borders, or failed with them, possibly on purpose.  This is probably the best measure of the corruption within the European Union. 

Russia is not the only country in Europe that needs to prove that nobody should build a Europe without them. 

So, can a European Union be built with any of the 1947 borders?  Putin and Russia is the only entente power that is honest enough to declare, that nobody can build a Union of any kind upon nothing but deportations and fire power. 

We can generate as much logic as we want.  You have provided a history logic.  We can also provide a deportation logic.  For example, you may call it logical that in 1947, Germany lost Pomerania because they deported the Polish from there.  So now the Ukraine is logical to lose Lvov because they deported the Poles from there.

In any case, a promise by Putin, that Lvov goes back to Poland and Zakarpatie goes back to the countries that had it before the USSR, will effectively reestablish the internal national borders of the European Union, which the European Union has fraudulently maintained, and will become the primary cause of its demise. 

But to go back to the history logic, why do you prefer the current border?  In fact, why do you need any kind of border?  Aren't all the 20th century borders not unique in that they were invented for the purpose of ultra nationalism and for the purpose of ww1-2-...?


----------



## Eugene

anotherlife said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree that Lvov must belong to Poland.
> Historically that region was:
> For more than 1000 years region was Slavic, and controlled by Kiev Rus' since Vladimir (10th century).
> 4 centuries it was Polish.
> A bit more than century it was Austrian.
> From 1918 till 1939 - Polish again.
> And than it was Ukrainian (as Ukrainians appeared as separate nation).
> 
> So which point of history would it be honest to take into account?
> 1941, the year when most of European borders were defined?
> Or maybe 1938, a year before the ww2 began?
> Or 1914 - before the ww1?
> 17th century? 10th?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1941 is not when most of European borders were defined, 1947 is.
> 
> And why shall we pick that one too?
> 
> Putin has an advantages with the existence of the borders itself.  The European Union was either dishonest about borders, or failed with them, possibly on purpose.  This is probably the best measure of the corruption within the European Union.
> 
> Russia is not the only country in Europe that needs to prove that nobody should build a Europe without them.
> 
> So, can a European Union be built with any of the 1947 borders?  Putin and Russia is the only entente power that is honest enough to declare, that nobody can build a Union of any kind upon nothing but deportations and fire power.
> 
> We can generate as much logic as we want.  You have provided a history logic.  We can also provide a deportation logic.  For example, you may call it logical that in 1947, Germany lost Pomerania because they deported the Polish from there.  So now the Ukraine is logical to lose Lvov because they deported the Poles from there.
> 
> In any case, a promise by Putin, that Lvov goes back to Poland and Zakarpatie goes back to the countries that had it before the USSR, will effectively reestablish the internal national borders of the European Union, which the European Union has fraudulently maintained, and will become the primary cause of its demise.
> 
> But to go back to the history logic, why do you prefer the current border?  In fact, why do you need any kind of border?  Aren't all the 20th century borders not unique in that they were invented for the purpose of ultra nationalism and for the purpose of ww1-2-...?
Click to expand...

Of course not 1941 it was misprint but you got me right

I don't suppose this idea deserves serious discussion. 
Any change of borders mean conflict or even a war. Why would someone wish that in regions that a calm now?
Putin is not able to dictate to Ukraine and Europe where and how they should demarcate their borders. 

And I agree with Igrok in his statement that whole Ukraine sooner or later would join Russia. But it won't be very soon and it won't be a kind of annexation but that would be integration. People from western Ukraine are traditionally travel workers...about 30% of them work in Russia. The same quantity- in Europe so they can understand the real picture. EU has no future but Russia does. 

And by the way "before the USSR" those territories and the whole Poland was a part of Russian Empire. So if Putin would say that I can't even imagine what kind of hysteria will be in USAEU.


----------



## anotherlife

Eugene said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree that Lvov must belong to Poland.
> Historically that region was:
> For more than 1000 years region was Slavic, and controlled by Kiev Rus' since Vladimir (10th century).
> 4 centuries it was Polish.
> A bit more than century it was Austrian.
> From 1918 till 1939 - Polish again.
> And than it was Ukrainian (as Ukrainians appeared as separate nation).
> 
> So which point of history would it be honest to take into account?
> 1941, the year when most of European borders were defined?
> Or maybe 1938, a year before the ww2 began?
> Or 1914 - before the ww1?
> 17th century? 10th?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1941 is not when most of European borders were defined, 1947 is.
> 
> And why shall we pick that one too?
> 
> Putin has an advantages with the existence of the borders itself.  The European Union was either dishonest about borders, or failed with them, possibly on purpose.  This is probably the best measure of the corruption within the European Union.
> 
> Russia is not the only country in Europe that needs to prove that nobody should build a Europe without them.
> 
> So, can a European Union be built with any of the 1947 borders?  Putin and Russia is the only entente power that is honest enough to declare, that nobody can build a Union of any kind upon nothing but deportations and fire power.
> 
> We can generate as much logic as we want.  You have provided a history logic.  We can also provide a deportation logic.  For example, you may call it logical that in 1947, Germany lost Pomerania because they deported the Polish from there.  So now the Ukraine is logical to lose Lvov because they deported the Poles from there.
> 
> In any case, a promise by Putin, that Lvov goes back to Poland and Zakarpatie goes back to the countries that had it before the USSR, will effectively reestablish the internal national borders of the European Union, which the European Union has fraudulently maintained, and will become the primary cause of its demise.
> 
> But to go back to the history logic, why do you prefer the current border?  In fact, why do you need any kind of border?  Aren't all the 20th century borders not unique in that they were invented for the purpose of ultra nationalism and for the purpose of ww1-2-...?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not 1941 it was misprint but you got me right
> 
> I don't suppose this idea deserves serious discussion.
> Any change of borders mean conflict or even a war. Why would someone wish that in regions that a calm now?
> Putin is not able to dictate to Ukraine and Europe where and how they should demarcate their borders.
> 
> And I agree with Igrok in his statement that whole Ukraine sooner or later would join Russia. But it won't be very soon and it won't be a kind of annexation but that would be integration. People from western Ukraine are traditionally travel workers...about 30% of them work in Russia. The same quantity- in Europe so they can understand the real picture. EU has no future but Russia does.
> 
> And by the way "before the USSR" those territories and the whole Poland was a part of Russian Empire. So if Putin would say that I can't even imagine what kind of hysteria will be in USAEU.
Click to expand...


As per the deportation history principle above, the Ukraine still must give Lvov and the Karpatians back to its neighbor's.  Then they can rejoin Russia, as a new Kiev Rus or something.  And it is not true that the region is calm, every country that neighbor's the EU is in a war or another, with the single exception of Belarus.


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ima Cat said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 127757
> 
> Vladimir Putin rescuing an endangered snow leopard, kindness quelling the cat's natural fear of man.
> 
> 
> 
> 4 months ago that leopard died in car accident (((
> 2 months ago new road with tunnel under that forest was finished.
> It is 200 km away from me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's nice.
> 
> BTW------ You've been here for over 3 years and you have a very very limited post.
> Are they charging you by the character? Just wondering.
> 
> Just checked your profile and every time every time I checked someone's profile-------- I became a follower. Not sure why it does that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Long ago I came here as I was curious what Americans think about some political affairs. Wrote some posts...
> After some time passed I recalled it and came here again.
> Is it strange?
> If you cannot prove that I am being paid for my posts than stop lying! I have static ip, check it and you will see where I am situated geographically. You may make a phone call to me if you wish (but my English is not good).
> I haven't caught the idea - after visiting someone's profile you always become a follower...what is that?
Click to expand...


Oh my.
Where in my post ------- that I mentioned that you are being paid for your post?


----------



## charwin95

Eugene said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...BTW didn't you just said you escaped from Ukraine because of putin invasion?
> 
> 
> 
> I've written the reason of my escape above.
> Do you have proves of Putin's invasion?
> Even Department of State said that they don't have proves of Russian army presence in Ukraine.
> 
> And I ran from Kiev overfilled by nazis backed by USAEU.
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Commodities in Russia are soaring, population is dwindling, brain drain-------  Sorry but I don't see any good news coming out from Russia but hardship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which is true- imported goods became 50% more expensive. And it is one of the main claims to our government and their ruling the economy. But you shouldn't forget that our economy was ruined by you and only after 2001-2002 we started building something. Now we may base mostly on resources but it will not last long, don't worry.
> Anyway people do not suffer that much as your media tell. For example the lowest salary in my company is $1000 while 500 is enough for eating and paying for а flat. If you wish I may send you my recent check from supermarket do that you could compare prices.
> 
> Population. You got old info.
> And thanks for mentioning this subject - in this picture one can notice that situation with population became better after Putin's coming.
> View attachment 127435
> This is official statistics.
> As you can see we are in positive figures now.
> And pay attention at 2014 - a lot of people from Ukraine came to Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From outsider what is there for me that Putin is a good guy not a thug-------- considering he currently supply arms to Iran and Syria that supports terrorism in ME and elsewhere in the region.
> Just imagine if the US is the not there. The whole ME will be so screwed up as it is with the help of  Putin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All these are simply propaganda words without any proves.
> Here is interesting video which make me believe that West is not fatally sick. You still have honest people.
> I like her answering questions at 13:30 most of all.
> She is saying true facts.
> 
> And now just imagine if USA wasn't there what would happen? There won't be a war and suffering people!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.  So what are the Russians doing in Crimea? Having a party?
> 
> Crippling sanctions was only applied after Putin  invasion ------------ so blame it on Putin.
> 
> Are you denying that Putin is not supplying arms to Syria and Iran?
> 
> Russia's population peaked from 149 millions in 1991 to 144 millions in 2015 Crimea included. That's 24 years. Why do you lie?
> 
> 
> Russia Expected to Lose 32 Million People by 2050
> 
> Russian Demographics: The Perfect Storm | YaleGlobal Online
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Russian demographics. Simply check statistics.
> Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia
> After Putin's coming the situation became changing for better according to figures.
> But you will never accept is like a fact.
> 
> All I posted in 1-7 points may be checked easily. But in your media truth about Russia is not welcome. They lie much.
> Remember how it was in Sochi while Olympics? Fake about double toilets, wolves in hotels and other bs alike. And what people said after returning back to the USA/Canada?
> 
> Syria and Iran get Russian weapon on absolutely legal grounds as well as Qatar, Saudi, Pakistan and others get it from on the US.
> But in Syria Russia supplies authorities while the USA supplied terrorists.
> 
> As for US missile defense the decision to place them in Eastern Europe was in 2007. What invasion to Ukraine are you talking about?
> United States national missile defense - Wikipedia
> 
> Besides what can you say about Russian invasion to Ukraine in 2014? Do you have any facts?
> Even Department of State officially stated that they have no reliable proofs of Russian army's presence in Ukraine. Either you lie or them.
> Or maybe you simply blindly believe to your mainstream fake media?
> 
> Crimea. What do you know about Crimea?
> It's history, real wishes of people living there?
> NATO plans of building base in Sevastopol...
> How many were killed while this terrible annexation and how people live there today in comparison to Ukraine.
> 
> Before writing that bs about Russia you better visit it and check some facts by yourself. If you wish I may meet you in Vladivostok- city I live. You will visit my home, get acquainted to my wife and sons...will see my job that gives me money... do it if you really are looking for truth.
Click to expand...


Your opinion is purely obsolete.
Read the link I posted 1991 Russian population was 149 now 144 millions 2015. That's a fact.
EIS missile system was in placed in Poland and Romania only last year. Not 2007. That's a fact.
US supply terrorist in Syria????? Really? 

All my post are real facts---- I do not BS. 

I'm sure there are people that are doing well in Russia. I never said ALL people in Russia are miserable. Then explain why there is a massive brain drain in Russia? 
Are you denying that Russia did not invade Ukraine taking over Crimea? What are you talking about dude? You are in denial bigly like Putin. 

Russia's Brain Drain Worse Than Previously Believed - Report


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> All my post are real facts---- I do not BS.





charwin95 said:


> Your opinion is purely obsolete.


Are you sure?
I think you say that just because your points of view are the same as those frequently met in mainstream media not because it is true. 
How information war is being held? - you say fake often and everywhere and very soon people accept that news as true.



charwin95 said:


> 1991 Russian population was 149 now 144 millions 2015.


Wrong comparison. 
In 1991 USSR collapsed and serious problems bagan. 
Till 1999 liberals led by USA ruled Russia and economy decreased. 
From 1999 Putin led country out of your destructive influencе and Russia began its raising slowly step by step. 
So when comparing one should take into account that line of 1999. Besides too few time has passed for making some conclusions. And it is important to take into account momentum of all those processes. 
Here are the real figures on population of Russia year by year - your figures are wrong. 

 



charwin95 said:


> EIS missile system was in placed in Poland and Romania only last year. Not 2007


It's impossible to make a decision and to build immediately. So decision of placing EIS objects in Eastern Europe was in 2007 and it is not a secret. 
This problem was main in almost every official meeting of our foreign ministers. 



charwin95 said:


> Then explain why there is a massive brain drain in Russia?


Late information as well as about population and it only proves that while Russia was ruled by loyal to the US Yeltsin it was in great problem and now the situation is changed for better. 



charwin95 said:


> Are you denying that Russia did not invade Ukraine taking over Crimea?


Even US officials never said that they have proved information about Russian army in Ukraine. 
Crimea is another story. 
Can you imagine invasion with zero victims?
It's too large question for discussion...here are just my thesis:
- Crimea is Russia as long as the USA exists;
- Khrushchev violated the law when gifted Crimea to Ukraine;
- in 1991 Yeltsin had to return Crimea;
- NATO planned to build base in Crimea;
- Ukrainian Nazi moved to Crimea and were met by armed crimeans and ran away;
- Russian army in Crimea was legally and they had legal right to propaganda piece...and they had done it;
- referendum was organized and almost 90% voted for joining Russia. 



charwin95 said:


> US supply terrorist in Syria????? Really?


Here is only one article in English. Though there are a lot of read by me in Russian. 

Now armored vehicles: Bulgarian arms supplies to Jihadists in Syria doubled: EADaily

I am sure you won't deny that the USA supports rebels in Syria who fight against Syrian government. Those are called terrorists!
Besides US authorities never could divide them from ISIS as Russia asked for many times.


----------



## Comrade Johnson

Sbiker said:


> You made one mistake in you speech. It must be "Gorbachev" instead of "Stalin"



I didn't read your post (no doubt that it's something really stupid as always  ), but the only thing that Gorbachev and Stalin have in common is that both were leaders of the party which took power as bandits and ruled the country as bandits. They robbed and killed people in millions and it's the only thing which communists are able to do.


----------



## Eugene

Comrade Johnson said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> You made one mistake in you speech. It must be "Gorbachev" instead of "Stalin"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't read your post (no doubt that it's something really stupid as always  ), but the only thing that Gorbachev and Stalin have in common is that both were leaders of the party which took power as bandits and ruled the country as bandits. They robbed and killed people in millions and it's the only thing which communists are able to do.
Click to expand...

A little boy...stupid one but very funny


----------



## Eugene

charwin95 said:


> Where in my post ------- that I mentioned that you are being paid for your post?


As I mentioned before my English is not so good. I got you wrong. Sorry.

As for you article in The Moscow Times it is the brightest example of how fake news are created.
1. Data in the article is not proved by any links, sources. It is just said that "number of emigrants is..." where have they taken those figures? How? Why are they more accurate than state statistics department?
2. All conclusions of the article create a picture of total disaster.
3. Even the picture is taken very old and the one which allow reader to realize how terrible it is in Russia. For comparison here are pictures of the same place.
  

There are some media resources in Russia that shouldn't be taken into account as they survive just thanks to anti Russian rhetoric. Such as The Moscow Times, Dozhd' TVchannel, Echo of Moscow and some others. They simply lie. Or find the worst news to show them as widely as possible. 

They try to show Russia as bad as they can...and the picture illustrating the article is the brightest example.


----------



## ESay

Eugene said:


> Can you imagine invasion with zero victims?


If there were no victims, then it means there was no invasion? I think this logic can be understood only by a Russian. 



Eugene said:


> - Khrushchev violated the law when gifted Crimea to Ukraine;


What law he violated?



Eugene said:


> - Russian army in Crimea was legally and they had legal right to propaganda piece...and they had done it;


They had a right to assault administrative buildings, airports, and Ukrainian military units?



Eugene said:


> - referendum was organized and almost 90% voted for joining Russia.


I hope you aren’t going to expect that everyone will believe in this referendum, are you? Especially, taking into consideration the fact that no one international organization controlled the voting and the vote counting.


----------



## AlexanderPK

ESay said:


> I hope you aren’t going to expect that everyone will believe in this referendum, are you? Especially, taking into consideration the fact that no one international organization controlled the voting and the vote counting.


Is it of even the slightest concern to you, this Crimea brouhaha? Can you remember any American having been blown up by a Russian?  Haven’t you noticed there’s a muslim living next door whom you should be apprehensive about.
It was going to happen anyway, legally or not. Russia couldn’t afford American navy be deployed right under its nose, which was inevitably going to happen in 2017 when a deal with Ukraine letting Russian navy deployment in Sevastopol for reasons of Ukraine’s hostile stance towards Russia had no chance of being prolonged. And shove this self righteous talk about what’s right or wrong you know where. There’s a whole bunch of creeps on CNN doing that better than you.


----------



## ESay

AlexanderPK said:


> It was going to happen anyway, legally or not. Russia couldn’t afford American navy be deployed right under its nose, which was inevitably going to happen in 2017 when a deal with Ukraine letting Russian navy deployment in Sevastopol for reasons of Ukraine’s hostile stance towards Russia had no chance of being prolonged.


Are you trying to say that the US was going to build a naval base in Crimea? Leave these fairy tales to your schoolmates.



AlexanderPK said:


> And shove this self righteous talk about what’s right or wrong you know where. There’s a whole bunch of creeps on CNN doing that better than you.


Sure, I will. Your opinion is very valuable to me.


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> AlexanderPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was going to happen anyway, legally or not. Russia couldn’t afford American navy be deployed right under its nose, which was inevitably going to happen in 2017 when a deal with Ukraine letting Russian navy deployment in Sevastopol for reasons of Ukraine’s hostile stance towards Russia had no chance of being prolonged.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to say that the US was going to build a naval base in Crimea? Leave these fairy tales to your schoolmates.
Click to expand...


I think, generals in US army not so stupid, as you mean...


----------



## Quentin111

I think that Russia under Putin can be characterized by the following caricature:


----------



## Eugene

ESay said:


> If there were no victims, then it means there was no invasion? I think this logic can be understood only by a Russian.


If there were not victims there were not resisting from local people. If there were not resistance they were happy.
In Kiev illegal revolution faced resistance and there were victims. But in Crimea most of local people were happy to see Russian soldiers.
 I phoned to my friends in Crimea and asked about it. They answered that their women decorated military posts with flowers.
It was not a invasion but freeing.



ESay said:


> What law he violated?


The Presidium of the Supreme Council gathered for a session on February 19, 1954 when only 13 of 27 members were present. There was no quorum, but the decision was adopted unanimously.
The earlier published documents, and materials that have emerged more recently, confirm that the transfer of Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR was carried out in accordance with the 1936 Soviet constitution, which in Article 18 stipulated that "the territory of a Union Republic may not be altered without its consent." The proceedings of the USSR Supreme Soviet Presidium meeting indicate that both the Russian SFSR and the Ukrainian SSR had given their consent via their republic parliaments.
Still on 27 June 2015 the Office of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation accepted the request of the leader of A Just Russia party Sergey Mironov to evaluate legitimacy of 1954 transfer of Crimea and stated that the transfer violated both Constitution of the Russian SFSR (other languages) and the Constitution of the Soviet Union. The text of the document signed by Russian Deputy Prosecutor General Sabir Kehlerova Mironov stated "Neither the Constitution of the RSFSR or the USSR Constitution do not provide powers of the Presidium Supreme Soviet of the USSR and for the consideration of the changes in the constitutional legal status of the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, members of the union republics. In view of the above, the decision adopted in 1954 by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviets of the RSFSR and the Soviet Union on the transfer of the Crimean region of the RSFSR to the USSR, did not correspond to the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the RSFSR and the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the USSR."



ESay said:


> They had a right to assault administrative buildings, airports, and Ukrainian military units?


They had a right to ensure piece and order at the territory of Crimea.
After what was done in Kiev and Donbass that was the only way to avoid war in Crimea. And they had done it successfully- no war and happy population.



ESay said:


> I hope you aren’t going to expect that everyone will believe in this referendum, are you? Especially, taking into consideration the fact that no one international organization controlled the voting and the vote counting.


International organizations were invited and some were present there.
That referendum was much more legal than yours in Kosovo.
The only difference is Kosovo was your action and it is correct and legal while Crimea is not yours and on that reason it cannot be correct and legal.

After the referendum several international investigators confirmed that most of Crimeans wanted to join Russia.



ESay said:


> Are you trying to say that the US was going to build a naval base in Crimea? Leave these fairy tales to your schoolmates.


Renovation of Sevastopol School #5, Ukraine - Federal Business Opportunities: Opportunities
And try to find Joe Biden's speech on the 7th of July about Crimea. I cannot find it in English.


----------



## ESay

Eugene said:


> If there were not victims there were not resisting from local people. If there were not resistance they were happy.
> In Kiev illegal revolution faced resistance and there were victims. But in Crimea most of local people were happy to see Russian soldiers.
> I phoned to my friends in Crimea and asked about it. They answered that their women decorated military posts with flowers.
> It was not a invasion but freeing.


The Russian army illegally took under its control all vital objects in Crimea. And it is called invasion.
The absolute majority of dead and injured in Kiev during that time was those who supported the Euromaidan, btw.



Eugene said:


> The Presidium of the Supreme Council gathered for a session on February 19, 1954 when only 13 of 27 members were present. There was no quorum, but the decision was adopted unanimously.
> The earlier published documents, and materials that have emerged more recently, confirm that the transfer of Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR was carried out in accordance with the 1936 Soviet constitution, which in Article 18 stipulated that "the territory of a Union Republic may not be altered without its consent." The proceedings of the USSR Supreme Soviet Presidium meeting indicate that both the Russian SFSR and the Ukrainian SSR had given their consent via their republic parliaments.
> Still on 27 June 2015 the Office of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation accepted the request of the leader of A Just Russia party Sergey Mironov to evaluate legitimacy of 1954 transfer of Crimea and stated that the transfer violated both Constitution of the Russian SFSR (other languages) and the Constitution of the Soviet Union. The text of the document signed by Russian Deputy Prosecutor General Sabir Kehlerova Mironov stated "Neither the Constitution of the RSFSR or the USSR Constitution do not provide powers of the Presidium Supreme Soviet of the USSR and for the consideration of the changes in the constitutional legal status of the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, members of the union republics. In view of the above, the decision adopted in 1954 by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviets of the RSFSR and the Soviet Union on the transfer of the Crimean region of the RSFSR to the USSR, did not correspond to the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the RSFSR and the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the USSR."


You copy and pasted a part of an article from Wikipedia, not carefully reading it.

1. The information about quorum was given with a link to a pravda.ru website. How trustworthy this information is, I will give you a choice to decide.

2. The second paragraph about your copy-and-paste says that the transfer of Crimea was conducted in accordance with the USSR constitution. Try to read it.

3. The information about decisions which led to the transfer is better presented on a Russian segment of Wikipedia:
25 января 1954 на прошедшем под председательством Г. М. Маленкова[10][11] заседании Президиума ЦК КПСС был утверждён проект Указа Президиума Верховного Совета СССР о передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР. Первый секретарь Крымского обкома КПСС Павел Титов, выступивший против передачи области в состав Украинской ССР, был снят с должности и отправлен в Москву на должность заместителя министра сельского хозяйства РСФСР[12][13].

5 февраля Совет Министров РСФСР своим постановлением «счёл целесообразной» передачу Крымской области в состав УССР и обратился к Президиуму Верховного Совета РСФСР с просьбой «рассмотреть вопрос» о передаче области и «войти в Президиум Верховного Совета СССР с соответствующим постановлением». В тот же день Президиум ВС РСФСР постановил передать Крымскую область в состав Украинской ССР и направил своё постановление на утверждение Президиума Верховного Совета СССР. Заседание Президиума Верховного Совета РСФСР прошло в присутствии представителей исполнительных органов Крымской области и города Севастополя, а также руководителей органов юстиции, Верховного суда и прокуратуры РСФСР[10].

12 февраля в связи с постановлением Президиума ВС РСФСР о передаче Крыма в состав УССР Президиум Верховного Совета Украинской ССР постановил просить Президиум Верховного Совета СССР передать Крымскую область из состава РСФСР в состав Украинской ССР[14].

19 февраля Президиум Верховного Совета СССР издал Указ «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР», которым утвердил совместное представление президиумов Верховных Советов РСФСР и Украинской ССР о передаче Крымской области в состав Украинской ССР[15].

26 апреля Верховный Совет СССР законом «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав Украинской ССР» утвердил этот указ и постановил внести соответствующие изменения в статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР[1]. В тот же день Верховный Совет СССР принял закон «Об утверждении указов Президиума Верховного Совета СССР», которым, сославшись на закон СССР об утверждении указа о передаче Крыма, изложил статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР, устанавливающие административное деление РСФСР и УССР в новой редакции. Крымская область была исключена из конституционного перечня административных единиц РСФСР (статья 22 Конституции СССР) и включена в перечень административных единиц Украинской ССР (статья 23)[16]. Указ от 19 февраля и законы от 26 апреля подписал председатель Президиума Верховного Совета СССР К. Е. Ворошилов.

2 июня упоминание Крымской области было исключено из статьи 14 Конституции (Основного Закона) РСФСР[17], а 17 июня — внесено в статью 18 Конституции (Основного Закона) Украинской ССР[18].

So, my question still stands – what law he violated?



Eugene said:


> They had a right to ensure piece and order at the territory of Crimea.
> After what was done in Kiev and Donbass that was the only way to avoid war in Crimea. And they had done it successfully- no war and happy population.


No, they didn’t have that right.
All the events in Donbas occurred after the invasion of Crimea happened, when your government decided to ‘help’ the people of Donbas.



Eugene said:


> International organizations were invited and some were present there.
> That referendum was much more legal than yours in Kosovo.
> The only difference is Kosovo was your action and it is correct and legal while Crimea is not yours and on that reason it cannot be correct and legal.
> 
> After the referendum several international investigators confirmed that most of Crimeans wanted to join Russia.


There was no ‘my’ referendum in Kosovo. Ukraine doesn’t recognize the Kosovo’s independence.



Eugene said:


> Renovation of Sevastopol School #5, Ukraine - Federal Business Opportunities: Opportunities
> And try to find Joe Biden's speech on the 7th of July about Crimea. I cannot find it in English.


I don’t know what this renovation was about, but I highly doubt that this has something to do with a naval base. Btw, this renovation was planned when Yanukovych was the president, look at the date.


----------



## Sbiker

ESay said:


> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there were not victims there were not resisting from local people. If there were not resistance they were happy.
> In Kiev illegal revolution faced resistance and there were victims. But in Crimea most of local people were happy to see Russian soldiers.
> I phoned to my friends in Crimea and asked about it. They answered that their women decorated military posts with flowers.
> It was not a invasion but freeing.
> 
> 
> 
> The Russian army illegally took under its control all vital objects in Crimea. And it is called invasion.
> The absolute majority of dead and injured in Kiev during that time was those who supported the Euromaidan, btw.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Presidium of the Supreme Council gathered for a session on February 19, 1954 when only 13 of 27 members were present. There was no quorum, but the decision was adopted unanimously.
> The earlier published documents, and materials that have emerged more recently, confirm that the transfer of Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR was carried out in accordance with the 1936 Soviet constitution, which in Article 18 stipulated that "the territory of a Union Republic may not be altered without its consent." The proceedings of the USSR Supreme Soviet Presidium meeting indicate that both the Russian SFSR and the Ukrainian SSR had given their consent via their republic parliaments.
> Still on 27 June 2015 the Office of the Prosecutor General of the Russian Federation accepted the request of the leader of A Just Russia party Sergey Mironov to evaluate legitimacy of 1954 transfer of Crimea and stated that the transfer violated both Constitution of the Russian SFSR (other languages) and the Constitution of the Soviet Union. The text of the document signed by Russian Deputy Prosecutor General Sabir Kehlerova Mironov stated "Neither the Constitution of the RSFSR or the USSR Constitution do not provide powers of the Presidium Supreme Soviet of the USSR and for the consideration of the changes in the constitutional legal status of the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, members of the union republics. In view of the above, the decision adopted in 1954 by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviets of the RSFSR and the Soviet Union on the transfer of the Crimean region of the RSFSR to the USSR, did not correspond to the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the RSFSR and the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the USSR."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You copy and pasted a part of an article from Wikipedia, not carefully reading it.
> 
> 1. The information about quorum was given with a link to a pravda.ru website. How trustworthy this information is, I will give you a choice to decide.
> 
> 2. The second paragraph about your copy-and-paste says that the transfer of Crimea was conducted in accordance with the USSR constitution. Try to read it.
> 
> 3. The information about decisions which led to the transfer is better presented on a Russian segment of Wikipedia:
> 25 января 1954 на прошедшем под председательством Г. М. Маленкова[10][11] заседании Президиума ЦК КПСС был утверждён проект Указа Президиума Верховного Совета СССР о передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР. Первый секретарь Крымского обкома КПСС Павел Титов, выступивший против передачи области в состав Украинской ССР, был снят с должности и отправлен в Москву на должность заместителя министра сельского хозяйства РСФСР[12][13].
> 
> 5 февраля Совет Министров РСФСР своим постановлением «счёл целесообразной» передачу Крымской области в состав УССР и обратился к Президиуму Верховного Совета РСФСР с просьбой «рассмотреть вопрос» о передаче области и «войти в Президиум Верховного Совета СССР с соответствующим постановлением». В тот же день Президиум ВС РСФСР постановил передать Крымскую область в состав Украинской ССР и направил своё постановление на утверждение Президиума Верховного Совета СССР. Заседание Президиума Верховного Совета РСФСР прошло в присутствии представителей исполнительных органов Крымской области и города Севастополя, а также руководителей органов юстиции, Верховного суда и прокуратуры РСФСР[10].
> 
> 12 февраля в связи с постановлением Президиума ВС РСФСР о передаче Крыма в состав УССР Президиум Верховного Совета Украинской ССР постановил просить Президиум Верховного Совета СССР передать Крымскую область из состава РСФСР в состав Украинской ССР[14].
> 
> 19 февраля Президиум Верховного Совета СССР издал Указ «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР», которым утвердил совместное представление президиумов Верховных Советов РСФСР и Украинской ССР о передаче Крымской области в состав Украинской ССР[15].
> 
> 26 апреля Верховный Совет СССР законом «О передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав Украинской ССР» утвердил этот указ и постановил внести соответствующие изменения в статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР[1]. В тот же день Верховный Совет СССР принял закон «Об утверждении указов Президиума Верховного Совета СССР», которым, сославшись на закон СССР об утверждении указа о передаче Крыма, изложил статьи 22 и 23 Конституции СССР, устанавливающие административное деление РСФСР и УССР в новой редакции. Крымская область была исключена из конституционного перечня административных единиц РСФСР (статья 22 Конституции СССР) и включена в перечень административных единиц Украинской ССР (статья 23)[16]. Указ от 19 февраля и законы от 26 апреля подписал председатель Президиума Верховного Совета СССР К. Е. Ворошилов.
> 
> 2 июня упоминание Крымской области было исключено из статьи 14 Конституции (Основного Закона) РСФСР[17], а 17 июня — внесено в статью 18 Конституции (Основного Закона) Украинской ССР[18].
> 
> So, my question still stands – what law he violated?
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> They had a right to ensure piece and order at the territory of Crimea.
> After what was done in Kiev and Donbass that was the only way to avoid war in Crimea. And they had done it successfully- no war and happy population.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they didn’t have that right.
> All the events in Donbas occurred after the invasion of Crimea happened, when your government decided to ‘help’ the people of Donbas.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> International organizations were invited and some were present there.
> That referendum was much more legal than yours in Kosovo.
> The only difference is Kosovo was your action and it is correct and legal while Crimea is not yours and on that reason it cannot be correct and legal.
> 
> After the referendum several international investigators confirmed that most of Crimeans wanted to join Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no ‘my’ referendum in Kosovo. Ukraine doesn’t recognize the Kosovo’s independence.
> 
> 
> 
> Eugene said:
> 
> 
> 
> Renovation of Sevastopol School #5, Ukraine - Federal Business Opportunities: Opportunities
> And try to find Joe Biden's speech on the 7th of July about Crimea. I cannot find it in English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t know what this renovation was about, but I highly doubt that this has something to do with a naval base. Btw, this renovation was planned when Yanukovych was the president, look at the date.
Click to expand...


Quod erat demonstrandum.

You accept crimes of Communist regime, profitable for you, comletely ignoring "Holodomore", you've crying about at all corners... How easily your forgot about "millions murdered Ukrainian", when you have just a chance to talk about profit. Where's you "national consciousness"?   
You just proved, there are no objective "ukrainian nation", but only a political project of several nazi scums, which want only money and use a tonn of lies just to reach a bag of bucks...

How much does your "holy anger against Russia" cost? 2-3 thousands of US dollars?


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## Eugene

ESay,

How do you call US army's activity in Panama, in Puerto Rico and many alike? Invasion? I guess not.
How else could Crimeans avoid war?
By the time of Crimean events there were deaths in Donbass, there were deaths in Kiev, there were administrative buildings taken under control by armed Nazi rebels in several cities of Ukraine.
In fact you blame Russia for saving people's lifes and piece in Crimea.

Deaths in Maidan were from both sides but shots were from one place - hotel "Ukraina". How can it be explained? Provocation!
The same was in Riga in 1991, the same was in Syria... it is well working American dirty trick!

History of Crimea in 1954 was taken from Wiki. It's the easiest way for me to find something in English.
Pravda.ru is one of thousands information media neither worse nor better than others. But your stereotypes make you say and/or think that it publishes only lie. Even in soviet time it was usual newspaper.
Propaganda is provided by every mass media in the world. And propaganda does not mean lies.
Your western CNN, BBC, Fox, Guardian, etc - they are pure propaganda without even try to look at the events under another angle. They aim to go on anti Russian hysteria among population so that all crimes by the USAEU and NATO could be held further.

The fact is Khrushchev violated the constitution of the USSR when giving Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in 1954.

Kosovo was not your personally but your - American project. And all American satellites agree it was absolutely legal.

You may either believe me or not but American involvement in Ukrainian events...including illegal change of government is fact not even refused by the US authorities. And Biden was one of main players in that dirty game. His son is co-owner of gas/oil company that used to work in the eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

And I don't see much sense in continuing of this dispute. You are not looking for truth but wish to prove that I am lying. Unfortunately my English doesn't allow me to be good in it. Let each of us and other readers to see our points of view and make own investigations and conclusions.


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## ESay

Eugene said:


> How do you call US army's activity in Panama, in Puerto Rico and many alike? Invasion? I guess not.


If the actions of the US matched with the term ‘invasion’, then it was invasion. I am not going to tell you that the US is the paragon of virtue.



Eugene said:


> How else could Crimeans avoid war?
> By the time of Crimean events there were deaths in Donbass, there were deaths in Kiev, there were administrative buildings taken under control by armed Nazi rebels in several cities of Ukraine.
> In fact you blame Russia for saving people's lifes and piece in Crimea.


I don’t blame Russia for that. You think that Russia saved lives and peace in Crimea – good, you can be proud of it. But by annexing the peninsula, Russia violated some international agreements, and among them there is so called the Great Treaty between Russia and Ukraine in which the two countries recognized their borders which were at that time.

What I blame Russia for is its doings in Donbas.



Eugene said:


> Deaths in Maidan were from both sides but shots were from one place - hotel "Ukraina". How can it be explained? Provocation!
> The same was in Riga in 1991, the same was in Syria... it is well working American dirty trick!


It may well be a provocation.



Eugene said:


> History of Crimea in 1954 was taken from Wiki. It's the easiest way for me to find something in English.
> Pravda.ru is one of thousands information media neither worse nor better than others. But your stereotypes make you say and/or think that it publishes only lie. Even in soviet time it was usual newspaper.
> Propaganda is provided by every mass media in the world. And propaganda does not mean lies.
> Your western CNN, BBC, Fox, Guardian, etc - they are pure propaganda without even try to look at the events under another angle. They aim to go on anti Russian hysteria among population so that all crimes by the USAEU and NATO could be held further.


It is not because of my stereotypes against Pravda.ru. There is such a thing called _*ответ Генеральной прокуратуры РФ на обращение депутата Государственной Думы Сергея Михайловича Миронова по вопросу правового анализа принятых в 1954 г. решений о передаче Крымской области из состава РСФСР в состав УССР и изменении границ бывших союзных республик*_
If information about the quorum were true, I am sure that it would be included in this letter. There is no mentioning about it. So, I think ‘the quorum’ exists only in the Pravda world.



Eugene said:


> The fact is Khrushchev violated the constitution of the USSR when giving Crimea from Russia to Ukraine in 1954.


The fact is that it is only meaningless words.



Eugene said:


> You may either believe me or not but American involvement in Ukrainian events...including illegal change of government is fact not even refused by the US authorities. And Biden was one of main players in that dirty game. His son is co-owner of gas/oil company that used to work in the eastern Ukraine and Crimea.


I have virtually no doubts that this involvement took place.



Eugene said:


> And I don't see much sense in continuing of this dispute. You are not looking for truth but wish to prove that I am lying. Unfortunately my English doesn't allow me to be good in it. Let each of us and other readers to see our points of view and make own investigations and conclusions.


No problem.


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