# The Gravest Threat to World Peace



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:

"Reporting on the final U.S. presidential campaign debate, on foreign policy, The Wall Street Journal observed that 'the only country mentioned more (than Israel) was Iran, which is seen by most nations in the Middle East as the gravest security threat to the region...'"

"The Journal article, like countless others on Iran, leaves critical questions unanswered, among them: *Who exactly sees Iran as the gravest security threat?* And what do Arabs (and most of the world) think can be done about the threat, whatever they take it to be?

"The first question is easily answered. The 'Iranian threat' is overwhelmingly a Western obsession, *shared by Arab dictators*, though not Arab populations.

"As numerous polls have shown, although citizens of Arab countries generally dislike Iran, they do not regard it as a very serious threat. *Rather, they perceive the threat to be Israel and the United States*; and many, sometimes considerable majorities, regard Iranian nuclear weapons as a counter to these threats.

"In high places in the U.S., some concur with the Arab populations' perception, among them Gen. Lee Butler, former head of the Strategic Command. In 1998 he said, 'It is dangerous in the extreme that in the cauldron of animosities that we call the Middle East,' one nation, Israel, should have a powerful nuclear weapons arsenal, which '*inspires other nations to do so*.'"

Noam Chomsky: The Gravest Threat to World Peace


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.

What Chomsky conveniently chooses not to address is the dangerous mindset of the Iranian Mullocrats with regard to their the view of a cataclysmic Endtimes envisioned within the shia version of islam. The pre-fab president of Iran, Ahmadinijad, has a belief he is responsible for assisting shia islams mahdi in bringing forth those Endtmes. 

History is replete with various Endtimers to include Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite and others. Those religious fanatics had varying interpretations of the Endtimes. The damage to humanity that they could inflict was limited. It's a very different case with islamist ideologues who have a vision of the Endtimes which implementation can be assisted by nuclear weapons. 

I have no desire to see a war started (by the Iranians), as fulfillment of some lurid religious fantasy regarding the return of a mythical figure.

*Iran leader's U.N. finale reveals apocalyptic view*

Ahmadinejad evokes return of messianic Islamic 'madhi'

Read more: Iran leader's U.N. finale reveals apocalyptic view Iran leader&#8217;s U.N. finale reveals apocalyptic view



> I emphatically declare that today's world, more than ever before, longs for just and righteous people with love for all humanity; and above all longs for the perfect righteous human being and the real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet," Ahmadinejad said. "Oh, Almighty God, all men and women are your creatures and you have ordained their guidance and salvation. Bestow upon humanity that thirsts for justice, the perfect human being promised to all by you, and make us among his followers and among those who strive for his return and his cause.
> 
> With Iran on the verge of producing nuclear weapons and already in possession of medium-range missiles, mystical pre-occupation with the coming of a Shiite Islamic messiah is of particular concern because of Iran's potential for triggering the kind of global conflagration Ahmadinejad envisions will set the stage for the end of the world.



Ahmadinejad is on record as stating he believes he is to have a personal role in ushering in the age of the Mahdi. In a Nov. 16, 2005, speech in Tehran, he said he sees his main mission in life as to "pave the path for the glorious reappearance of Imam Mahdi, may Allah hasten his reappearance."

Please feel free to email your pal Chomsky and tell him I said he's an asshole.

Thanks.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


> There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
> 
> What Chomsky conveniently chooses not to address is the dangerous mindset of the Iranian Mullocrats with regard to their the view of a cataclysmic Endtimes envisioned within the shia version of islam. The pre-fab president of Iran, Ahmadinijad, has a belief he is responsible for assisting shia islams mahdi in bringing forth those Endtmes.
> 
> ...


Iran hasn't attacked another country in over 200 years.

Anyone who can't see this is the same bullshit rhetoric that was spewed leading up to the Iraq war 10 years ago, is one dumbass American.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> 
> "Reporting on the final U.S. presidential campaign debate, on foreign policy, The Wall Street Journal observed that 'the only country mentioned more (than Israel) was Iran, which is seen by most nations in the Middle East as the gravest security threat to the region...'"
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> ...


The gravest threat to world peace, is corporatism.


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
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> > There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
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I actually find the concept of a nation ruled by death cultists, (Iranian Mullocrats),to be dangerous as the Dark Ages islamist mindset has no business being in control of nukes.  My unease in connection with Iranian Death Cultists acquiring nukes is twofold: First, Iran, basically a third world nation, is simply buying Western technology with no real conception of the dangers involved and no true understanding of the technology. Secondly, we need to understand that religious fanatics who embrace a death cult mentality having such a technological play-thing is a prescription for disaster.

Anyway, the "revelations" that came out of the Wikileaks data some time ago was an opportunity to do some research regarding the Islamist eschatology mythos. I recalled reading something in the sunnah about the destruction of the kaaba / black God-rock right around the same time as the Allahpocalypse, but I couldn't remember where. I finally found it in the hadith of Sahih MuslimBook 41: The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour (Kitab Al-Fitan wa Ashrat As-Sa`ah):

- Number 6881: 

_Zainab bint Jahsh reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) got up from sleep saying: There is no god but Allah; there is a destruction in store for Arabia because of turmoil which is at hand, the barrier of Gog and Magog has opened so much. And Sufyan made a sign of ten with the help of his hand (in order to indicate the width of the gap) and I said: Allah's Messenger, would we be perished in spite of the fact that there would be good people amongst us? Thereupon he said: Of course, but only when the evil predominates. _


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## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


> There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
> 
> What Chomsky conveniently chooses not to address is the dangerous mindset of the Iranian Mullocrats with regard to their the view of a cataclysmic Endtimes envisioned within the shia version of islam. The pre-fab president of Iran, Ahmadinijad, has a belief he is responsible for assisting shia islams mahdi in bringing forth those Endtmes.
> 
> ...


End-timers play a prominent role in Christianity, as well, and, so far, only Christians have used nuclear weapons on innocent civilians. It is primarily the US and Israel who are showing by their actions how much they endorse the concept of a nuclear weapons free zone in the Middle East:

"A large majority of the world appears to share Arab views on the Iranian threat. The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) has vigorously supported Iran's right to enrich uranium, most recently at its summit meeting in Tehran last August.

"India, the most populous member of the NAM, has found ways to evade the onerous U.S. financial sanctions on Iran. Plans are proceeding to link Iran's Chabahar port, refurbished with Indian assistance, to Central Asia through Afghanistan. Trade relations are also reported to be increasing. Were it not for strong U.S. pressures, these natural relations would probably improve substantially."

Noam Chomsky: The Gravest Threat to World Peace


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hollie said:
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> > There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
> ...


 
False comparisons and bad analogies, George. 

You and Chomsky have a shared pathology.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


> I actually find the concept of a nation ruled by death cultists, (Iranian Mullocrats),to be dangerous as the Dark Ages islamist mindset has no business being in control of nukes.  My unease in connection with Iranian Death Cultists acquiring nukes is twofold: First, Iran, basically a third world nation, is simply buying Western technology with no real conception of the dangers involved and no true understanding of the technology. Secondly, we need to understand that religious fanatics who embrace a death cult mentality having such a technological play-thing is a prescription for disaster.
> 
> Anyway, the "revelations" that came out of the Wikileaks data some time ago was an opportunity to do some research regarding the Islamist eschatology mythos. I recalled reading something in the sunnah about the destruction of the kaaba / black God-rock right around the same time as the Allahpocalypse, but I couldn't remember where. I finally found it in the hadith of Sahih MuslimBook 41: The Book Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour (Kitab Al-Fitan wa Ashrat As-Sa`ah):
> 
> ...


Until someone can show proof their program has been weaponized, we can't even have this conversation yet.


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > I actually find the concept of a nation ruled by death cultists, (Iranian Mullocrats),to be dangerous as the Dark Ages islamist mindset has no business being in control of nukes.  My unease in connection with Iranian Death Cultists acquiring nukes is twofold: First, Iran, basically a third world nation, is simply buying Western technology with no real conception of the dangers involved and no true understanding of the technology. Secondly, we need to understand that religious fanatics who embrace a death cult mentality having such a technological play-thing is a prescription for disaster.
> ...



Of course we can. We are, right now. How did you manage to miss that?


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## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


> Of course we can. We are, right now. How did you manage to miss that?


It doesn't make sense to discuss a nuclear armed Iran, if they're not trying to get "the bomb".


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## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
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> > Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> ...


Those who get rich from wars that are fought with other people's blood and taxes are a bigger threat to humanity than all the "mad mullahs" combined. 

"The Kuwait news agency immediately reported that 'the Arab group of states and the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) member states agreed to continue lobbying for a conference on establishing a Middle East zone free of nuclear weapons and all other weapons of mass destruction.'

"Last month, the U.N. General Assembly passed a resolution calling on Israel to join the NPT, 174-6. Voting no was the usual contingent: Israel, the United States, Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.

"A few days later, the United States carried out a nuclear weapons test, again banning international inspectors from the test site in Nevada. Iran protested, as did the mayor of Hiroshima and some Japanese peace groups."

Noam Chomsky: The Gravest Threat to World Peace


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
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> > Of course we can. We are, right now. How did you manage to miss that?
> ...



I don't find your personal assurance real comforting.


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## Sunni Man (Jan 5, 2013)

The illegal rouge state of Israel is the most aggressive and destabilizing nation is the middle east.

It is terrorist state ruled by zionist psychopaths with a racist apartheid agenda.

And populated by 7 million people suffering from stockholm syndrome induced by obedience to their former Nazi masters/mentors.


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## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


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What would that pathology be, Hollie?
A realization that the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet hasn't changed?
Rich Iranians control their government to the same extent rich capitalists control the US.
While both sets of parasites are highly self-destructive, they are not suicidal.
Assuming you're a citizen of the US, worry more about the millions of innocent human beings your government has maimed, murdered, and displaced in the last 20 years and less about hypothetical mass killers in Tehran.


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## Jroc (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


> georgephillip said:
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He's a cult follower


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## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> The illegal rouge state of Israel is the most aggressive and destabilizing nation is the middle east.
> 
> It is terrorist state ruled by zionist psychopaths with a racist apartheid agenda.
> 
> And populated by 7 million people suffering from stockholm syndrome induced by obedience to their former Nazi masters/mentors.


Elite Jews are behaving today exactly as the first British military governor of Jerusalem predicted almost a century ago:

"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a 'Jewish homeland' in Palestine meant for the British Empire: 'It will form for England,' he said, &#8220;a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.'&#8221;

"Storrs&#8217; analogy was no accident. Ireland was where the English invented the tactic of divide and conquer, and where the devastating effectiveness of using foreign settlers to drive a wedge between the colonial rulers and the colonized made it a template for worldwide imperial rule."

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF

Storrs had no way of knowing his Empire would become a junior partner at the end of WWII, but it doesn't invalidate Israel's reason for existence; Israel functions as a deranged Spartan proxy in service to the richest 1% of Americans.


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## RoccoR (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie, georgephillip, loinboy, _et al,_

Americans can hardly be aware of how diplomacy has once again failed, for a simple reason: Virtually nothing is reported in the United States about the fate of the most obvious way to address  "the gravest threat"  
Establish a nuclear-weapon-free zone in the Middle East.​_Noam Chomsky_​
*(PREFACE)*

In any discussion on this topic  _(International World Threat)_, that involves Israel, it is probably better to forget Noam Chomsky.  Not because  of what Chomsky says is irrelevant, but because he has become so divisive himself; which derails and diminishes the importance of anything he has to say.

The topic itself, presupposes, that the "gravest threat" has anything at all to do with the Middle East and the "classic dispute" between the Muslim World and everyone/everything non-Muslim.  And while no one can argue that this "classic dispute" is not one of the most important topics of the day, it is rather impetuous to believe it is the gravest of threats.  The "classic dispute" between the inhabitants of the Middle East/Persian Gulf Region and the rest of the World has been around for more and three millenium.  And if they survive, it will be around for another three millenium, popping in and out of the history of importance like a sine-wave through time.  Today, they have a piece of the stage, with Iran wanting parity with Israel on nuclear weapons, and the Palestinians wanting the world to believe they are the owners of a piece of land that has been conquered so many times, that they forget that they are not a unified people.

*(CLARIFICATION)*

Threat is a matter of perception.  

What is a threat to you, may not be a threat to me.  
What situations intimidate you, may not intimidate me.  
What is perilous to you, may not be perilous to me.
The perception is affected by the level (very Maslow-_ish_) and proximity of the threat in time and space.  _[(A 122mm Rocket looks more impressive if it lands in your row of CHUs than if it lands across the river.)(A crash on Wall Street is more impressive to the upper 1% of the elite than it is to me in the lower quarter of the economy.)(Unemployment has an impact on the working class, but doesn't on the independently wealthy.)]_

When we talk about the "World Threat," it means something much different than it does when we say a "Threat to America."  Americans have a tendency to consider these interchangeable; that is, what threatens America, threatens the world.  But this is not necessarily the case.  The outcome of the Iraq and Afghan military adventures is not of the same level of importance to the Pacific nations or Africa, as it is to America.  The same can be said, is true for the Persian Gulf.

*(COMMENT)*

So the questions remains:  What is the Gravest Threat to World Peace?  Is it _(really)_ Middle Eastern/Persian Gulf centric?  Has it anything to do with:

Israel
The Palestinian Issue
Iran
Nuclear Weapons
OR, is it based on the emerging political-economic hegemonies, and the distribution of energy?

While I respect the commentary of Noam Chomsky, and his perspective, I believe him to be wrong.  His perspective, if tightened down to just the one (of several) regional issues, then --- there might be some validity to his thesis.  But examining the threat on a global scale, I say he is _(no disrespect intended to his academic prowess, or his youthful experiences as an undergrad in the HaZore'a Kibbutz)_ a bit naive.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

In the mid 1980s    REAL EPIDEMIOLOGISTS  
  were predicting a wipe out of the world's 
  population  based on   HIV   to the point 
  of collapse--------dead bodies lining 
  the gutters in every major US town---
  by the year 2000


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## pbel (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


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Geez, your style of posting should be sent to the flame-zone as science fiction...Iran is an Israeli target because of her false sense that her nukes are going to protect her from the Islamic Horde which she has tried to goad the West into War...she succeeded in Iraq, but America refuses to fight her war with Iran...

It is obvious to me that everyone in the entire ME has Weapons of Mass Destruction as nerve agents etc...There is no way Israel will retain nuclear monopoly...

Her efforts should be peaceful transition of the ME into modern societies...Her mistreating the Palestinians have de-legitimized her in front of the world bodies because she is aggressively harassing her neighbors and expanding her borders.

Dr. Chomsky is a Polymath, people like that, i.e. Einstein, DaVinci, Aristotle are incapable of lying.


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

pbel said:


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I couldn't help but note that you chose not to address a single point in my comments. 


Additionally, I couldn't but note that you hope to implicate Israel in a Middle East conflict that is actually pitting the shia against the sunni.

Unless you have chosen to ignore events taking place in the islamist Middle East, it is the 1,300 year old blood feud separating the shia and sunni tribes that is the largest concern. Because you missed it, the sunni's across the Arab world are growing increasingly concerned with the "shia crescent" across the Gulf. 


For a bit of history, you can look here: Abdullah's 'Shia crescent' warning backfires | World news | guardian.co.uk


For some more recent news: Gulf Arabs decry Iran "interference" in region - Yahoo! News


The reasons for innocent civilians being sploded&#8217; in food markets is fundamentally an issue of religious hatreds that divide the sunni and shia. Those hatreds are founded in a religious blood feud that dates back to early Islamic times and tales. 


That&#8217;s why we continue to get fun stuff like this: Attacks in Iraq kill at least 41, most of them pilgrims - CNN.com


For just one example of how these nutbars are at each others throats, you can look here: Beneath Bahrain's Shia-versus-Sunni narrative, only the tyrants benefit | Maryam al-Khawaja | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


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## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

for the record    HEZBOLLAH  is  Iran


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## pbel (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


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The reason Shia Iran came to prominence because Israel's clamoring to get Saddam eliminated her greatest threat as an ascending power in the ME...She simply filled the power vacuum when America eliminated Iraq.

Now the Sunni find themselves in the middle, but in the ME circles the Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend.

The elimination of Iran will make the Sunnis the power brokers again, while the Arab Spring keeps turning out Islamist Regimes...


Israeli, and American policies to pacify the ME are backfiring!


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> for the record    HEZBOLLAH  is  Iran



Yep!

And with the sunni Arab "rebels" contingent of _Dark Ages Intl. Inc., _ slugging it out with the Alawite (pseudo-shia) tribes, we have the prescription for 60,000 dead people in the span of what, 27 months?

It's a full-blown, internecine, sunni vs. shia holy war.


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

pbel said:


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Nonsense. Your conspiracy theories are geting old, bunkie.


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## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie----peeballs  is a very sensitive poet----do not plague him 
with historic realities


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## pbel (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


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Its always amazing when ZioNuts like you claim to know the truth and dismiss the truth as a conspiracy theory...


Before attacking Iran, Israel should learn from its 1981 strike on Iraq - Washington Post


When Netanyahu meets with President Obama on Monday and addresses the annual meeting of AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, later that day, we should expect additional dire assessments and warnings of military action.



For Israelis considering a strike on Iran, Osirak seems like a model for effective preventive war. After all, Hussein never got the bomb, and if Israel was able to brush back one enemy hell-bent on its destruction, it can do so again. But a closer look at the Osirak episode, drawing on recent academic research and memoirs of individuals involved with Iraqs program, argues powerfully against an Israeli strike on Iran today.

To begin with, Hussein was not on the brink of a bomb in 1981. By the late 1970s, he thought Iraq should develop nuclear weapons at some point, and he hoped to use the Osirak reactor to further that goal. But new evidence suggests that Hussein had not decided to launch a full-fledged weapons program prior to the Israeli strike. According to Norwegian scholar Målfrid Braut-Hegghammer, a leading authority on the Iraqi program, on the eve of the attack on Osirak .&#8201;.&#8201;. Iraqs pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability was both directionless and disorganized.


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

pbel said:


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I haven't noticed that you posted much in the way of truth. Your obvious Joooo-hating agenda makes you a poor candidate for an unbiased account.

I should point out to you that Iraq in the 1980's was a very different circumstance than Iran is today. 

If you have followed any of the data issued by the United Nations Atomic Energy Commission, there is a disturbing pattern of behavior on the part of the Iranians. I obviously don't know their intentions but it is clear that the Mullocrats have an agenda of mis-information and stalling when to comes to an open dialogue with the international community.


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## pbel (Jan 5, 2013)

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Rather than focusing on what is actually posted you claim that I have a Joooo hating agenda...for the sake of argument, even if what you say is true, how does that affect the veracity of what I actually posted?

You have nothing.


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

pbel said:


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Bad analogies and false comparisons are what you posted. As noted, Iraq in the 1980's was a very different circumstance than Iran is today.


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## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie---peeballs simply ignores refutation and claims none exists


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## pbel (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


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How about this quote about the 2002 attack?...

"_In 1996, when Benjamin Netanyahu was prepared to take office, eight Jewish neocon leaders sent him a six-page memo outlining an aggressive vision of government. At the top of their list was overthrowing Saddam. They sketched out a kind of domino theory in which the governments of Syria and other Arab countries might later fall or be replaced. _

_Comments of reserve Brig. Gen. Shlomo Brom, long regarded as one of the worlds best intelligence officers. Prior to his retirement in 1998. Brom served in Israeli military intelligence for 25 years, and acted as deputy chief of planning for the Israeli army."ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE WAS A FULL PARTNER WITH THE US AND BRITAIN IN DEVELOPING A FALSE PICTURE OF SADDAM HUSSEIN'S WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION CAPABILITY."_


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## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

pbel said:


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How about those quotes?

Typing in caps and adding bold colors adds a touch of melodrama but what is your point?

Additionally, is there a reason why your "quotes" are unsourced?


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## pbel (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


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Luv ...Color it affects mood...my source:Just saw the following post on one of the AOL Iraq War message boards as it is referring to the 'A Clean Break' document (which was co-authored by _JINSA/PNAC Chickenhawks Richard Perle, Douglas Feith and David Wurmser for Israel): _
Message 1 of 8 Subject 2 of 50
Subject: Israel's War!
Date: 4/26/04 4:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: PBel281198
MsgId: <20040426194328.09197.00024719@mbs-m05.aol.com>

The original by Avi Shavit for Haaratz in 2002, if you insist I'll find it, but I did post what was said.


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## chikenwing (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> 
> "Reporting on the final U.S. presidential campaign debate, on foreign policy, The Wall Street Journal observed that 'the only country mentioned more (than Israel) was Iran, which is seen by most nations in the Middle East as the gravest security threat to the region...'"
> 
> ...



Well  he is just like everyone is from time to time,just plan wrong.


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## RoccoR (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie,  _et al,_

This is one of the observations that throws outsiders.



EXCERPTS: Hollie said:


> Additionally, I couldn't but note that you hope to implicate Israel in a Middle East conflict that is actually pitting the shia against the sunni.
> 
> Unless you have chosen to ignore events taking place in the islamist Middle East, it is the 1,300 year old blood feud separating the shia and sunni tribes that is the largest concern. Because you missed it, the sunni's across the Arab world are growing increasingly concerned with the "shia crescent" across the Gulf.


*(COMMENT)*

I am not sure that there are very many Middle Eastern/Persian Gulf outsiders that can fully appreciate the dispute between the Sunni and Shi'ite.  

Clearly, there are factions out there that believe, whatever the nature of the dispute, it is --- and should be exploited to exemplify and expose the true nature of the base religion, and to accelerate the process of self-destruction from the inside-outward.

Contrary to popular belief, the real _(limited aspect of this)_ conflict is not between the Muslim and non-Muslim cultures; but between Muslim and Muslim cultures.  There are a great many non-Muslim elements that believe the Muslim culture is one of the most barbaric, dangerous, and violent cults ever to survive into this century; anything but responsive to the elementary teachings behind the basic concepts furthered by the common God between the Christians-Hebrews and Islamics religions.  Thus, they see no real fault in pitting Muslim against Muslim.  As one officer pointed out to me, "quite frankly, the problem is that they are not dispatching one another with the speed and efficiency" they had hoped for in the rivalry.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 5, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> Hollie, georgephillip, loinboy, _et al,_
> 
> Americans can hardly be aware of how diplomacy has once again failed, for a simple reason: Virtually nothing is reported in the United States about the fate of the most obvious way to address  "the gravest threat" 
> Establish a nuclear-weapon-free zone in the Middle East.​_Noam Chomsky_​
> ...



Perhaps , you are right, and perhaps the greatest threat to world peace is global warming and the manner in which that will pit people against people, all over the world, fighting for survival! Some even say that explains the fighting in Darfur.


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## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

any attempt to lay the issue of CONFLICT --upon 
a single factor is idiotic    Attempts to find 
UNIFYING THEORIES  in the science of 
PHYSICS  does work out a little.    In ORGANIC 
SYSTEMS     it don't work      we end up having 
to try to figure out  how  CHAOS  works


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## SAYIT (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> 
> "Reporting on the final U.S. presidential campaign debate, on foreign policy, The Wall Street Journal observed that 'the only country mentioned more (than Israel) was Iran, which is seen by most nations in the Middle East as the gravest security threat to the region...'"
> 
> ...



As always, Chumpsky takes the one-eyed shortcut. Debate mentions aside, it isn't Israel herself which is the greatest threat to world peace (that would be Russia with lots of nukes and little reason to secure them) but rather the fact that Israel exists in the tinderbox known as the Mideast and her "peaceful" Arab neighbors just can't seem to accept that fact.


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## SAYIT (Jan 5, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> RoccoR said:
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> > Hollie, georgephillip, loinboy, _et al,_
> ...



I can't say that global warming is the source of the strife in Africa but a disruption of the flow of relatively inexpensive oil for an extended period of time certainly will cause global economies and civility to break down. You can take that to the bank but your money will be worthless.


----------



## Connery (Jan 5, 2013)

On Chomsky: "He begins as a preacher to the world and ends as an intellectual crook"~ Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (1969) « Trumans Speech & Noam Chomsky Commentary Magazine
*
Chomsky expressed support for the arming of Hezbollah*, in direct contradiction to UN Security Council Resolution 1559 calliing for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias: 

Hezbollah's insistence on keeping its arms is justified... I think [Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan] Nasrallah has a reasoned argument and [a] persuasive argument that they [the arms] should be in the hands of Hezbollah as a deterrent to potential aggression, and there is plenty of background reasons for that. So until  I think his position [is] reporting it correctly and it seems to me [a] reasonable position, is that until there is a general political settlement in the region, [and] the threat of aggression and violence is reduced or eliminated, there has to be a deterrent, and the Lebanese army can't be a deterrent. (Noam Chomsky, Al Manar TV, 13 May 2006)​CAMERA: Noam Chomsky's Support for Hezbollah


I take what Chomsky says with not a grain but a  pillar of salt...He is biased and only throws fuel on a discussion. Crazy bastard....


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

chikenwing said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> ...


*Wrong about what?*

The fact that most Arabs view the US and Israel as bigger threats to peace in the Middle East than Iran?

Maybe you know why only two countries on this planet are allowed to possess nuclear weapons in that part of the world? One country has illegally acquired dozens if not hundreds of such devices, and the other is the only "democracy" that's ever actually used such weapons.

*That's just plain wrong.*


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> ...


Actually the greatest threat to world peace (almost by definition) would be the greatest purveyor of violence in the world. Only one among 194 countries has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Muslims on the opposite side of the planet from its homeland in the last two decades.

The claim that Israel exists in a "tinderbox known as the Mideast" stems directly from carving a Jewish homeland out of Arab real estate. When 650,000 Jews inflicted Greater Israel on twice as many Arabs in 1948, the "peaceful" majority didn't require a "one-eyed shortcut" to perceive its future.

Chomsky is smart enough and honest enough to see and admit this.
You're not.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Connery said:


> On Chomsky: "He begins as a preacher to the world and ends as an intellectual crook"~ Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (1969) « Trumans Speech & Noam Chomsky Commentary Magazine
> *
> Chomsky expressed support for the arming of Hezbollah*, in direct contradiction to UN Security Council Resolution 1559 calliing for the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias:
> 
> ...


Bias toward those who profit from the mass destruction of middle class US jobs isn't crazy, but I'm sure a few rich and crazy bastards would condemn it.

From your 1969 Schlesinger quote:

"But the most perplexing thing of all is why Dr. Chomsky gets so excited over the prospect of America&#8217;s joining the International Trade Organization, which after all was the point of the Truman speech. 

"Why does he regard the Reciprocal Trade Agreements Act as so sinister and vicious an arrangement? (This extravagant reaction to innocuous phenomena is typical of Dr. Chomsky; recall his statement in American Power and the New Mandarins that Senator Mike Mansfield&#8212;Mike Mansfield!&#8212;is 'the kind of man who is the terror of our age.') 

"And why does he suppose that the ITO and the Trade Argeements Act express the imperialist will of the American business system?"

« Truman&#8217;s Speech & Noam Chomsky Commentary Magazine


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Is not Israel but Islam.  Second to Islam is their closest ally, Communism.  Together they are going to create the greatest misery this world has ever known and it is right around the corner.  I was looking for your comment to Hossfly that we may not see Caesar in our lifetime and to that I say...........  what nonsense, George.  Truly Caesar is here and dressed in black from head to toe for the occasion.  May God have mercy upon America for her sins and the greatest one was allowing your altars of baal to be built upon our land.  Political correctness be damned.  There is no fellowship between the worshipers of Baal ( baal allah just one of many here ) and the worshipers of the One True God - the Judeo-Christian God of our land and bible.  Chomsky is a fool.  - Jeremiah


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Jeremiah...with all due respect, has it ever occurred to you that your "One True God" is simply another lie the rich tell?


----------



## proudveteran06 (Jan 5, 2013)

'Cancerous tumour' Israel will soon be destroyed, says Ahmadinejad 




Israels existence is an insult to all humanity, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Friday, in one of his sharpest attacks yet against the Jewish state, which is currently debating whether to attack Iran over its nuclear program. 


By News Wires (text) 





AFP - Israel is a "cancerous tumour" that will soon be finished off, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Friday told demonstrators holding an annual protest against the existence of the Jewish state.

"The Zionist regime and the Zionists are a cancerous tumour. Even if one cell of them is left in one inch of (Palestinian) land, in the future this story (of Israel's existence) will repeat," he said in a speech in Tehran marking Iran's Quds Day that was broadcast on state television.

"The nations of the region will soon finish off the usurper Zionists in the Palestinian land.... A new Middle East will definitely be formed. With the grace of God and help of the nations, in the new Middle East there will be no trace of the Americans and Zionists," he said.

The diatribe took place amid heightened tensions between Israel and Iran over Tehran's disputed nuclear programme.

The Jewish state has in recent weeks intensified its threats to possibly bomb Iran's nuclear facilities to prevent it having the capability to produce atomic weapons.

Iran, which is suffering under severe Western sanctions, denies its nuclear programme is anything but peaceful. Its military has warned it will destroy Israel if it attacks.









ANALYSIS 




















ISRAEL 

Israel steps up war rhetoric against Iran




State television showed crowds marching under blazing sunshine in Tehran and other Iranian cities to mark Quds Days, whose name, derived from Arabic, designates the city of Jerusalem, the disputed future capital of both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Demonstrators held up Palestinian flags and pictures of Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and banners reading "Death to Israel" and "Death to America." A group in Tehran was shown burning an Israeli flag.

The marches have been an annual event during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan in Iran, ever since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

They underline Iran's antipathy to Israel and its ally the United States, and support for the Palestinian cause, which Khamenei on Wednesday called "a religious duty."

The supreme leader described Israel as a "bogus and fake Zionist outgrowth" in the Middle East that "will disappear."

The head of Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guards, General Mohammad Ali Jafari, told the Fars news agency as he attended the Tehran rally that "the Iranian nation has always been at the forefront of the (regional anti-Israeli) resistance in showing its animosity with Israel."

He added that Iran intended to maintain that virulent stance.

Ahmadinejad, in his speech, claimed that "Zionists" triggered the first and second world wars, and had "taken control over world affairs since the moment they became dominant over the US government."

He asserted that major governments, banks and media were in thrall to a Zionist cabal whose aim was to "destroy the cultures, values and sovereignty of nations."

Ahmadinejad's past broadsides against Israel and its Jewish supports, and his denial that the Holocaust occurred, have earned him opprobrium from Western and other nations, and walk-outs during his addresses to the UN General Assembly.

Israel has been employing its own invective against Iran and its leaders, invoking the image of Hitler and the Nazis on the eve of World War II and accusing Tehran of being bent on Israeli genocide.


AHMADINEJAD has made his intentions quite clear which could actually start WW 111 but Israel is the " agressor and the problem" ?  lol  Consider the source


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Take you own advice by answering this question:

Which country has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Muslims in the last twenty years?


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Here we are getting the same old song and dance from Georgie Boy that we have seen him post so many times.  Of course he believes that Winston Churchill was a liar when Churchill said the Arabs came in droves from their poverty-stricken countries because the Jews in Israel had jobs for them.  It is the same phenomena we see today with Hispanics crossing our Southern borders for jobs in America and with the Muslims flooding into Europe from their poor countries.  Evidently Georgie Boy has no problem with the Muslims coming into our country and Europe, and he certainly has no problem with the Muslims governing all the real estate in the Middle East except Israel, but resents the Jews governing one tiny piece of land.  Today on AOL News they gave the best retirement places outside the U.S.  Malaysia was #3, and since Georgie Boy hates this country, it might benefit him to convert to Islam and move there where he might be happier and more satisfied with his life.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Take you own advice by answering this question:
> 
> Which country has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Muslims in the last twenty years?


Why, Gerorgie Boy, it is quite obvious that you have been blind all these years to what the Muslims have done and are still doing to others.  Isn't it strange how Georgie Boy hates this country, and only today in his own major newspaper, there is a story of how pregnant Asian women are coming here to have their babies so that their children will be citizens of this country.  Nobody is really stopping you from moving, Georgie, if you are that unhappy with this country.  How far could it be for you to move down to someplace in Mexico, like Rosarita Beach or Ensenada?  I hear that Social Security checks go real far down that way and you could be away from the country that you hate.


----------



## Connery (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > On Chomsky: "He begins as a preacher to the world and ends as an intellectual crook"~ Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (1969) « Trumans Speech & Noam Chomsky Commentary Magazine
> ...




Chomsky is simply a fraud, "Of course President Truman never spoke the words thus attributed to him, and *reviewers quickly caught Dr. Chomsky out in his scholarly fakery. But this exposure has evidently not perturbed Dr. Chomsky in the slightest. He now concedes that he lifted his quotations from D. F. Fleming and J. P. Warburg*; but he still insists that they are accurate and perceptive paraphrases of the Baylor speech, that they convey the essence of Trumans remarks.  

Beyond this Chomsky does not lend an air of resolution, but, one of derision.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

"Professor Chomsky's reply will appear in a future issue&#8212;"

What do you think you're proving?
Chomsky makes mistakes?
Not as many as Truman.

« Truman&#8217;s Speech & Noam Chomsky Commentary Magazine


----------



## skye (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
> ...




You have got that completely wrong!

Under the mad Islamists, Iran is committed to the spreading of Islam and sharia law worldwide.

The other countries  such as Israel are merely defending themselves when necessary.

Iran's proxies such as Hezbollah and Hamas have actively carried out, and still do carry out,  aggressive  military and terrorists strikes against  Israel and other countries as far away as Argentina in South America.

To say that Iran is not a danger to the world is just ridiculous.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 5, 2013)

Israel is a far greater threat to world peace than any other nation in the world.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


One can only wonder why Hossie brings Winnie the Racist and migrant Hispanics into a discussion about Chomsky's contention that Israel and the US pose bigger threats to peace in the Middle East than Iran?

PTSD, maybe?

General George Lee Butler would seem more likely to shed light on Iran and Israel in the 21st Century:

"As numerous polls have shown, although citizens of Arab countries generally dislike Iran, they do not regard it as a very serious threat. *Rather, they perceive the threat to be Israel and the United States; *and many, sometimes considerable majorities, regard Iranian nuclear weapons as a counter to these threats.

"In high places in the U.S., some concur with the Arab populations' perception, among them Gen. Lee Butler, former head of the Strategic Command. In 1998 he said, 'It is dangerous in the extreme that in the cauldron of animosities that we call the Middle East,' one nation, Israel, should have a powerful nuclear weapons arsenal, which 'inspires other nations to do so.'

"Still more dangerous is the nuclear-deterrent strategy of which Butler was a leading designer for many years. 

"Such a strategy, he wrote in 2002, is 'a formula for unmitigated catastrophe,' and he called on the United States and other nuclear powers to accept their commitment under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) to make 'good faith' efforts to eliminate the plague of nuclear weapons."

Why is Hossie such a pussy when it comes to making "good faith" efforts at honest debate?

Noam Chomsky: The Gravest Threat to World Peace


----------



## skye (Jan 5, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> Israel is a far greater threat to world peace than any other nation in the world.




May be not to you Iran is not a threat...because you are a proud Islamic!  


I personally don't like those in the Iranian Regime that are religious fanatics. Scary!


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> Israel is a far greater threat to world peace than any other nation in the world.


With the exception of the USofA.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

skye said:


> You have got that completely wrong!


I know I've been wrong in the past, but not on this topic.  They have not attacked another country in over 200 years.  



skye said:


> Under the mad Islamists, Iran is committed to the spreading of Islam and sharia law worldwide.


You don't know what you're talking about.  Over 70% of Iran's population is under 30 and they are just waiting for those old mullahs to die off before installing a secular government that will allow them to wear Levi's in public.

Do you remember when you were under 30 and how you felt towards men of the cloth in their 60's?  



skye said:


> The other countries  such as Israel are merely defending themselves when necessary.


Israel started the last 6 wars its been in and is doing most of the sabre rattling in the ME.  They're the big bully on the block.



skye said:


> Iran's proxies such as Hezbollah and Hamas have actively carried out, and still do carry out,  aggressive  military and terrorists strikes against  Israel and other countries as far away as Argentina in South America.


Any government would respond militarily if Israel launched commando raids in their country.  And Iran's trade agreements with Argentina are between them and Argentina.



skye said:


> To say that Iran is not a danger to the world is just ridiculous.


Oh stop it!  I'm getting deja vu here.  This is the same garbage that was being said back in 2003.  Israel is the one making the threats and they need to shut their god-damn mouths!

Any attack on Iran will lead to the extinction of all life on planet earth.  Are they worth that much?


----------



## skye (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > You have got that completely wrong!
> ...


----------



## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



You're quite the apologist for those _poor, oppressed arabs_ who had to endure "all them-there Jooooos" being imposed upon "moslem lands".

What you're not going to address, of course, was the interruption of the arab/moslem pogrom taking place that is ridding infidels from the islamist Middle East.

I always find claims such as yours to be hypocritical. On the issue of human rights, Israel has a far better record than any moslem Arab state. It's a simple matter to compare the realities of anti-Semitic and anti-Christian and anti-non-Muslim oppression within arab / moslem nations vs. Israel and Western nations simply because of the success of ethnic and minority religious cleansing within the moslem / Arab world. While Israeli Arabs have, per capita, one of the highest living standards among all moslems worldwide and their population in Israel is growing, the Jews (and Christians) of the moslem world are comparatively poor, marginalized, and will die out within the next half-century. The moslem majority nations will ultimately achieve what Hitler never did, their nations will be _Judenrein_ (rid of Jews).


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

skye said:


>


Wrong ebonics!

It's _*"Hey Bra"*_

Brothers call each other "bro"; crackers call each other "bra".


----------



## Connery (Jan 5, 2013)

skye said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

Iran is just as much a threat to the world as is  AL QUEIDA ---which is  
INDEED   very much a threat        Hezbollah and Al Queida   are world wide 
terrorist organizations   filled with characters who can give up their sunni/shiite hatred for their  COMMON TERRORIST CAUSE-----the are both stationed in Yemen   right now       free of constraint


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Comment from an Iranian citizen responding to an _*Israel loves Iran *_blogger:



> _We also love you. Your words are reaching us despite the censorship, wrote one Facebook user from Iran.* The Iranian people, apart from the regime, do not hold a grudge nor animosity against anyone, especially not the Israelis We never saw Israelis as our enemies. *As such, the regime cannot gain public support for war.
> 
> *The hatred was invented by the propaganda of the regime, which will die soon*, continued the Iranian Facebook user. *The ayatollah will die soon. [Iranian President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad will disappear. He is nothing more than an opportunist, and more than anything  an idiot. Everyone hates him.* We love you, love, peace. And thanks for your message._


This is the truth about Iran.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Iran is just as much a threat to the world as is  AL QUEIDA ---which is
> INDEED   very much a threat        Hezbollah and Al Queida   are world wide
> terrorist organizations   filled with characters who can give up their sunni/shiite hatred for their  COMMON TERRORIST CAUSE-----the are both stationed in Yemen   right now       free of constraint


You're a bigger threat than Iran.


----------



## Hollie (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Comment from an Iranian citizen responding to an _*Israel loves Iran *_blogger:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, we're to believe that this single Iranian blogger speaks on behalf of the entirety of the Iranian civilian population... because you say so?

My but aren't we pampered souls.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


> So, we're to believe that this single Iranian blogger speaks on behalf of the entirety of the Iranian civilian population... because you say so?
> 
> My but aren't we pampered souls.


It backs up what I said.  That 70% of the population is under 30 and they're just waiting for the old mullahs to die off.

Just think back to when you were under 30 and how you felt about the over 60 crowd at that time?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Jeremiah...with all due respect, has it ever occurred to you that your "One True God" is simply another lie the rich tell?



That the moon god you are bowing down to and praying to 5 times a day is nothing more than a mere dead rock?  Seriously science could have taught you people a thing or two. 

 For instance that the moon has no light of its own.  It must have the reflection of the "sun" to have any light at all! 

  In the Book of the One True God ( yes, the bible, George ) The moon is a depiction of the church reflecting the glorious light of Jesus Christ, The Son of God.  Wouldn't it be funny for you and your moon god worshiping brethren to learn at the end of the age you were bowing down to the Son of God & His Bride afterall?  Seriously.  Some things happening upon this earth are just downright "prophetic"! 

-Jeremiah


----------



## pbel (Jan 5, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> Hollie, georgephillip, loinboy, _et al,_
> 
> Americans can hardly be aware of how diplomacy has once again failed, for a simple reason: Virtually nothing is reported in the United States about the fate of the most obvious way to address  "the gravest threat" 
> Establish a nuclear-weapon-free zone in the Middle East.​_Noam Chomsky_​
> ...



I may agree that the professor is an idealist...he probably read the same book as undergrad, as I did.  I think title "Children of the dream." It describes the peaceful antecedents of Jews settling in Palestine and living in Harmony with the Arabs...unfortunately terrorists like PM Begin and onward right wingers shot up the idea of co-existence very early in Israeli thinking.


----------



## proudveteran06 (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Take you own advice by answering this question:
> 
> Which country has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of innocent Muslims in the last twenty years?



"  Innocent Muslims?"   lol  The ones who want to see Israel destroyed and do not believe they should exist?   Take your advice by answering this question; Looking back at the Anti Semitism of MUSLIMS towards Jews ( Centuries before 1948) how long has that been going on?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 5, 2013)

proudveteran06 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Take you own advice by answering this question:
> ...



Well said, Proud Vet. 

-Jeremiah


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 5, 2013)

Hollie said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


Currently there are about an equal number of Jews and Arabs living between the Jordan and the sea.
Jews seem to prefer keeping a boot firmly planted on the Arab majority's neck.
Is that another example of Israel's commitment to human rights or just another kosher result of "creeping annexation" and humanitarian transfer policies?
Maybe two wrongs make a right on your block but not on mine.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

proudveteran06 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Take you own advice by answering this question:
> ...




Islamo nazis make their points by IMPOSING INCREASINGLY TIGHT 
PARAMETERS ----on the scope of the discussion  ----CUSTOM MADE 
PARAMETERS FOR THE ISLAMO NAZI CAUSE  ----in all dimensions ---
time, place and person    etc etc      NOW JUST ANSWER THE  
THE QUESTION WITH A  "yes"  OR A "no"


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 5, 2013)

lionboy,  _et al,_

Maybe I am misunderstanding something here.  Is someone pulling my leg?



loinboy said:


> ​


*(COMMENT)*

I think Oskar Schindler of the "Schindler's List" fame (saving Jewish Prisoners in WWII Germany) was Austria-Hungary born.  He is not Iranian.


LINK TO SHORT BIO:  Oskar Schindler

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



There is only one group that is wrong and that is the Arab group!  Do not accuse the Jews to justify the CRIMES of your own people!  That dog won't hunt around here! - Jeremiah


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

the idea is that some Iranian official did pull some strings for some 
jews during world war II-----MR  R..       have a cup of coffee


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> lionboy,  _et al,_
> 
> Maybe I am misunderstanding something here.  Is someone pulling my leg?
> 
> ...


It wasn't saying he was Oskar Schindler, it was saying he was the Oskar Schindler equivalent as an Iranian diplomat at an embassy in Paris during WWII helping over 2000 jews escape the country.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 5, 2013)

lionboy, irosie91, _et al,_

I apologize.  I did misunderstand the intent.



irosie91 said:


> the idea is that some Iranian official did pull some strings for some
> jews during world war II-----MR  R..       have a cup of coffee


*(COMMENT)*



			
				Wiki said:
			
		

> Abdol Hossein Sardari (1914 - 1981) was an Iranian statesman and diplomat who saved the lives of many Jews during the Holocaust.  *He is known as the "Schindler of Iran" and was the uncle of Fereydoun Hoveyda.*
> SOURCE:  Abdol Hossein Sardari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I stand corrected.  I'm having a latte.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> I stand corrected.  I'm having a latte.
> 
> Most Respectfully,
> R


With bourbon?


----------



## Connery (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
> ...




They have by proxy.  "A supply line of rockets from Iran that have for the first time given Hamas the ability to strike as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The rockets are assembled locally after being shipped from Iran to Sudan, trucked across the desert through Egypt, broken down into parts and moved through Sinai tunnels into Gaza, according to senior Israeli security officials. The smuggling route involves salaried employees from Hamas along the way, Iranian technical experts traveling on forged passports and government approval in Sudan"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/world/middleeast/arms-with-long-reach-bolster-hamas.html


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy,

Why, as it happens, Kentucky Bourbon from a dry county.



loinboy said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > I stand corrected.  I'm having a latte.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

After all, to be truly spiritual, you need to have the spirits.

v/r
R


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 5, 2013)

Connery said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Very true and let us not forget that the trade between Iran and Sudan has been oil for weapons, similar set up with Russian scientists assisting in the repair of the nuclear reactor in Bushehr which happened during the Iran - Iraq war.  (reported cost - 10 billion dollars )   Remember the oil embaro of the 70's and OPEC blackmailing the world into putting boycott on Israel?  That all came out of a meeting called by Iran.  That was the first official "57 Islamic nation pow wow"  although they are now holding them over in Malaysia for obvious reasons.   The birthplace of the terrorist group Nasrallah heads up ( Hezbollah ) is Iran.  It all started there which is why Iran has so much in Syria ( their ally ) and is getting backup from Russia at the UN table concerning how that all goes down. 

Not to mention the Grand Design Treaty Russia and Iran have concerning America.  Try finding that Treaty on Google!  It has all been erased!  Neverthless it exists to this very day.  It guarantees that if America attacks Iran Russia will in turn strike America.  So Iran is terrorist headquarters international truth be known.  Of course they hold their 57 islamic nations meetings in Malaysia to hide that fact but Iran has always been the one behind all of this and anyone who doesn't believe so doesn't understand how these folks operate. They are using the Philipines for headquarters to Al Qaeda but they too are tied into Malaysia which is tied back to Iran.    It always goes back to Iran.   

- Jeremiah


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Connery said:


> They have by proxy.  "A supply line of rockets from Iran that have for the first time given Hamas the ability to strike as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The rockets are assembled locally after being shipped from Iran to Sudan, trucked across the desert through Egypt, broken down into parts and moved through Sinai tunnels into Gaza, according to senior Israeli security officials. The smuggling route involves salaried employees from Hamas along the way, Iranian technical experts traveling on forged passports and government approval in Sudan"
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/world/middleeast/arms-with-long-reach-bolster-hamas.html


Gazan's don't have a right to defend themselves?

You usually need weapons for that.


----------



## Connery (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > They have by proxy.  "A supply line of rockets from Iran that have for the first time given Hamas the ability to strike as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The rockets are assembled locally after being shipped from Iran to Sudan, trucked across the desert through Egypt, broken down into parts and moved through Sinai tunnels into Gaza, according to senior Israeli security officials. The smuggling route involves salaried employees from Hamas along the way, Iranian technical experts traveling on forged passports and government approval in Sudan"
> ...



They are using their missiles to attack civilians while using their own civilians as human shields.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > They have by proxy.  "A supply line of rockets from Iran that have for the first time given Hamas the ability to strike as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The rockets are assembled locally after being shipped from Iran to Sudan, trucked across the desert through Egypt, broken down into parts and moved through Sinai tunnels into Gaza, according to senior Israeli security officials. The smuggling route involves salaried employees from Hamas along the way, Iranian technical experts traveling on forged passports and government approval in Sudan"
> ...



Defend themselves from what ?   the existence of people who do not lick the filth of islam?
     or wish to tolerate the muslimah whores with the bombs on their stinking worn out 
     OVER USED asses?       Everyone has rights and the right to EQUITY---Muslims 
     are ENTITLED to the same rights in India that Hindus have in the shariah cesspit 
     Saudi arabia and   muslims are also entitled in Israel to have the
     same rights jews have in the shariah cesspits of the rapist pig of arabia  
     As to THROAT SLITTING-----muslims owe the non muslim world several
     MILLION throats


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Connery said:


> They are using their missiles to attack civilians while using their own civilians as human shields.


Their missles are indescriminate weapons, they have no control where they land.  And there is no proof they've used human shields.  But there is a lot of evidence of the IDF using Palestinian's as human shields.  

_They're called* "johnnies".*_


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Defend themselves from what ?   the existence of people who do not lick the filth of islam?
> or wish to tolerate the muslimah whores with the bombs on their stinking worn out
> OVER USED asses?       Everyone has rights and the right to EQUITY---Muslims
> are ENTITLED to the same rights in India that Hindus have in the shariah cesspit
> ...


Defend themselves from the belligerent occupation of their land by the Israeli's, defend themselves from Israeli air strikes and commando raids, drone attacks, having their fishermen and farmers being shot at on a regular basis, the list is long.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy,  _et al,_

The Gazians have the right to defend themselves.  The question is, against what are they defending.



loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > They have by proxy.  "A supply line of rockets from Iran that have for the first time given Hamas the ability to strike as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. The rockets are assembled locally after being shipped from Iran to Sudan, trucked across the desert through Egypt, broken down into parts and moved through Sinai tunnels into Gaza, according to senior Israeli security officials. The smuggling route involves salaried employees from Hamas along the way, Iranian technical experts traveling on forged passports and government approval in Sudan"
> ...


*(QUESTIONS)*

What brought the IDF to Gaza?  
Why was it necessary for the IDF to take any action in Gaza?  
Was there a threat emanating from Gaza?
*(COMMENT)*

Gaza can defend itself, if and when, it can demonstrate that it can live peacefully among other nations, including Israel.  If Gaza cannot contain the radical element from within, that represents a deadly threat to Israel, then it is a Gaza that needs constraint by a force that can restrain the radical element.

Gaza needs to concentrate on building a nation, an economy which supports the reincarnation of the infrastructure necessary to bring prosperity.  It must do this in cooperation and partnership with Israel.  Not as a combat adversary.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> *(QUESTIONS)*
> 
> What brought the IDF to Gaza?
> Why was it necessary for the IDF to take any action in Gaza?
> ...


Gaza can only do what the Israeli's allow them to do.  The Israeli's control 80% of what goes in to (and out of) Gaza.  You cannot grow an economy when a foreign force has an "economic blockade" of all goods and services going in and out of that area.  And how can they have an infrastructure when the Israeli's keep killing their government officials?  A debt of Hamas went and installed street lights along a Gaza street and the IDF came in later and shot out all the lamps at the top.

Basically, Israel is trying to make life so unbearable for Palestinian's, that they'll leave the area.  Israel is the aggressor, not Gazan's.


----------



## Connery (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > They are using their missiles to attack civilians while using their own civilians as human shields.
> ...



The missiles are aimed at civilians,  "the Palestinian organizations firing rockets and mortars openly state that one of their aims is to harm Israeli civilians", according to bstelem.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 5, 2013)

loinboy said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > *(QUESTIONS)*
> ...




crotchboy makes a point worth considering      The point is  its treatment 
 of    the people who now call themselves  "palestinians"     It is unfair---whereas 
muslims are   FAIR       Therefore Israel SHOULD EMULATE THE BEAUTY OF ISLAM 
and impose   a kind of   REVERSE SHARIAH ----rendering all muslims in the controlled 
areas   "DHIMMIS"   under the same laws that   muslims  impose on Non muslims---
 I agree with crotch boy----the gazans should be declared  DHIMMIS   ---as well as the 
 arab muslims in the west bank and even the arab muslims in Israel and afforded 
the SAME rights that DHIMMIS enjoy in classical shariah adherent societies      Thus 
they will be DELIGHTED and have no reason to go anywhere


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 5, 2013)

Connery said:


> The missiles are aimed at civilians,  "the Palestinian organizations firing rockets and mortars openly state that one of their aims is to harm Israeli civilians", according to bstelem.


Their rockets cannot be aimed, that's what makes them war crimes.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > The missiles are aimed at civilians,  "the Palestinian organizations firing rockets and mortars openly state that one of their aims is to harm Israeli civilians", according to bstelem.
> ...



That is what the human  rights groups keep saying, that the rockets are too unsophisticated of weapons to be capable of targeting either civilians or military targets, so they are indiscriminate attacks that violate intl law. So Connery is full of Zionist shit, and lies, as always! He is incapable of speaking truth about anything.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> 
> "Reporting on the final U.S. presidential campaign debate, on foreign policy, The Wall Street Journal observed that 'the only country mentioned more (than Israel) was Iran, which is seen by most nations in the Middle East as the gravest security threat to the region...'"
> 
> ...



Well we've certainly invaded more countries without a formal declaration of war than any other country.

Let's face it Americans are addicted to war.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

What is launched from Gaza is basically home made "bottle rockets" much like those we Americans shoot in the air during the 4th of July celebrations.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> What is launched from Gaza is basically home made "bottle rockets" much like those we Americans shoot in the air during the 4th of July celebrations.



Bottle rockets don't kill people


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 6, 2013)

Skull Pilot said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > What is launched from Gaza is basically home made "bottle rockets" much like those we Americans shoot in the air during the 4th of July celebrations.
> ...



They have not killed many people.. Are you aware that in the past 5 years Israel has killed over 522 Palestinian children and Hamas  has killed 1 Israeli  child in that same time period? Those are the facts Zionists would like noone to know about.


----------



## Skull Pilot (Jan 6, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



If one of those not many was your wife or kid you might fell differently

I'm not supporting either side here I'm just commenting on the killing.  It's about time it stopped don't you think?


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 6, 2013)

Skull Pilot said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Of course, I would like it to stop. It would help if my country, the US, would stop sending
 Israel the equivalent of millions of dollars every single day to fund the illegal Israeli Occupation of Palestine and its daily crimes against humanity. And I also point out my post you replied to is supposed to say Hamas killed 1 Israeli child in the past 5 years, I edited the post to correct it. Posting from my phone and just making stupid errors I keep having to correct, the screen is too small and its too early in the morning, I guess.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

Skull Pilot said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > What is launched from Gaza is basically home made "bottle rockets" much like those we Americans shoot in the air during the 4th of July celebrations.
> ...


Actually, there are a few accidental deaths from fire works somewhere in the U.S. every 4th of July.

That aside, just _"one"_ guided missile launched from Israel into Gaza has more explosive power than a thousand home made bottle rockets targeting Israel.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...




disgusting jihadist dogs and sluts play word games  
   they tie bombs 14 year old kids and cry foul 
   when the kids end up in jail ----"-THEY ARE CHILDREN" 

Any launched missile can be AIMED---the baby brain 
smashing nail bombs that so entertain the filthy 
isa respecting sluts  cannot be ACCURATELY AIMED 
----they are tossed in the general direction of highly 
populated  residential  areas of Israel for the pleasue 
of ULULATING  isa respecting sluts  who get a thrill 
when one blows the brains out of a jewish child.  The 
sluts then lick the shit off the asses of the persons 
who shoot the bombs and cry if the murderers get 
arrested.   

more macabre  comedy----the murderers  REFUSE TO 
EAT in an effort to get out of jail free----the whores 
weep and wail in  ORGIASTIC PIETY ----- 
"THEY ARE LIKE JESUS"      oh gee----poor jesus --
He would probably get nauseated knowing his name 
was spoken by  SHIT MOUTH SHERRI


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

Quote: Originally Posted by Sunni Man  
What is launched from Gaza is basically home made "bottle rockets" much like those we Americans shoot in the air during the 4th of July celebrations. 


   sunni   I am delighted that you would be perfectly willing 
    to allow  kassam rockets to be tossed into places where 
    all your kith and kin  happen to be     I would laugh and 
    and sing    "FORTH OF JULY"  "sunni likes it too"

Kassam rockets have no actual military value---their 
most efficient use is in killing children.   The skulls of 
children are SOFT --relative to those of adults---they are 
not FULLY OSSIFIED  until the late teens.    The sunnis 
use sharp bits of metal ---sometimes even nails --which 
the sunnis soak on  coumadin --an anti coagulant 
easily obtained.    The bits of metal easily penetrate 
the skulls of chldren and to the delight of the sunnis----
the situation for the kids is generally hopeless----
the brain becomes liquefied      The sunnis engage 
in this activity for the pleasure of  ALLAH who likes 
to see children dead in the gutter with their brains 
dripping out of a cracked skull like tomato juice 

Of all people who   SHOULD see all dear to them 
in that condition----are those who trivialize nail bombs 
They are the MOST disgusting people in the world  
Interestingly enough ---lots of sunni children lie dead 
from the same kind of bomb ----shiite sluts have 
tied them to their whorish shiite asses and used 
them to murder sunni children in mosques      
Should someone tell the parents of those SUNNI 
kids that the bombs were  "just toys like fourth 
of july bottle rockets"?   Another use for the   "toys:
that sunnis have found is the murder of hindu children.
Sunnis used them in New Dehli  and in Gujarat 
fairly recently to murder hindu children for the 
entertainment of their sluts and whores at home.

Terrorism experts believe that it only a matter 
of time before the nail bomb trivializing 
sunnis use them in crowded places in the USA 
for the entertainment of their sluts who like 
to dance on the dead bodies of children 

I have seen the autopsy videos -
may all who trivialize see among the 
victims ----their own---up close


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> What is launched from Gaza is basically home made "bottle rockets" much like those we Americans shoot in the air during the 4th of July celebrations.



This is the kind of mindless drivel that haunts the wnnabe convert mindset.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

^^^^^^ evidence that irosie forgot to take her meds this morning..........


----------



## Connery (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > The missiles are aimed at civilians,  "the Palestinian organizations firing rockets and mortars openly state that one of their aims is to harm Israeli civilians", according to bstelem.
> ...



 "Palestinian armed groups in Gaza violated the laws of war during the November 2012 fighting by launching hundreds of rockets toward population centers in Israel", according to Human Rights Watch.. 

According to bstemel, "the Palestinian organizations firing rockets and mortars openly state that one of their aims is to harm Israeli civilians. Attacks aimed at civilians undermine all principles of morality and law. *The intentional killing of civilians is classified as a grave breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention and therefore a war crime*."


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^^^^ evidence that irosie forgot to take her meds this morning..........



With no ability to refute her argument, you're left to stutter and mumble.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^^^^ evidence that irosie forgot to take her meds this morning..........



what is the evidence?     that I have correctly described the mode of murder YOU 
trivialize-----your comment regarding nail bombs which have rendered thousands 
of children dead-----in fact more muslim kids than hindus and jews---because they 
 are also used for that purpose  by  BOTH  shiite and sunni bomb on ass sluts--
in places like Iraq and Pakistan-----is extremely vile       

An interesting fact is that the US  homeland security is carefully monitoring 
all of the  elements of the nail bombs because they have been found 
in the hands of   SUNNIS in the USA  ----Did I post something you prefer 
to keep secret?


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



That is more wannabe claptrap.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Connery said:


> "Palestinian armed groups in Gaza violated the laws of war during the November 2012 fighting by launching hundreds of rockets toward population centers in Israel", according to Human Rights Watch..
> 
> According to bstemel, "the Palestinian organizations firing rockets and mortars openly state that one of their aims is to harm Israeli civilians. Attacks aimed at civilians undermine all principles of morality and law. *The intentional killing of civilians is classified as a grave breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention and therefore a war crime*."


That is absolutely true.

What is also true, is the Israeli's are not without sin themselves and have violated the laws of war, as well.  Both sides are guilty of this.


----------



## Connery (Jan 6, 2013)

I am amazed at how posters justify  and normalize the insane actions of their terrorist heroes, even if it costs the lives of the terrorists own  children and civilians.

Chomsky and his support of terrorism heads the list.


----------



## Connery (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > "Palestinian armed groups in Gaza violated the laws of war during the November 2012 fighting by launching hundreds of rockets toward population centers in Israel", according to Human Rights Watch..
> ...



It would be nice if you start using reference material.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > "Palestinian armed groups in Gaza violated the laws of war during the November 2012 fighting by launching hundreds of rockets toward population centers in Israel", according to Human Rights Watch..
> ...




Nobody is "without sin"   in a war-----however a very important element 
of  evaluation of crime is  INTENT.    Decisions and actions in THE HEAT 
of BATTLE ----and even by persons ---who by nature of simply being an 
average person who happens to be an inductee----cannot be compared 
to ONGOING POLICY-----Terrorism is so much a policy of the 
UMMAH   that  its top religious organizations of scholars 
have endorsed it.     Decades ago  Al Azhar scholars   ----the recognized 
authorities in koranic law for sunnis world wide----declared ---the killing 
of any Israel at any time of any age or gender is legal to muslims---more 
recently the geniuses of Al Azhar---have extended that edict to "all jews" 
For the record----the person SHAYKH ABDEL RAHMAN---who Morsi of Egypt 
now demands be released from Prison----was a TOP TOP koranic scholar 
professor at Al Azhar before he came to the USA.   He bombed 
the World Trade Center in 1993 ---murdering seven americans and injuring 
hundreds ----I have no doubt that the same slut who cries  for a terrorist 
who refuses to eat would support that release  demand.   I am surprised 
that you consider nail bombings a crime-----when so many of your 
collleagues defend them as  "harmless"   despite the thousands 
of children who benefited from their  "harmlessness"   with a youthful 
death----or in lesser cases a life in a wheel chair.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Nobody is "without sin"   in a war-----


This isn't a war!  A war infers to opposing army's of reletively equal strength doing battle.  That's not what we have here.  This is a belligerent occupation by the most militaristic country on the planet, over a population of people that are not even allowed to have weapons to defend themselves.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > The missiles are aimed at civilians,  "the Palestinian organizations firing rockets and mortars openly state that one of their aims is to harm Israeli civilians", according to bstelem.
> ...


"I shot a missile into the air;
And where it fell................"

Stupid thing to do.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Rules For Retaliation

1. A head for an eye.

2. See rule #1

So, go ahead with the "bottle rockets."


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody is "without sin"   in a war-----
> ...



*Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'*

Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell' &mdash; RT

You might want to consider applying for the position of Field Marshall General / Fuehrer of the Hamas army.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 6, 2013)

Hollie said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



lol, Do you believe in the tooth fairy today just because your mommy told you once she existed?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Connery said:


> It would be nice if you start using reference material.


Okay, everything starts from the "occupation" and Israel's responsibilities as the "occupying power"....



> _Occupation law - as a branch of IHL - regulates the partial or total occupation of a territory by a hostile army. Provisions regulating occupation can be found in The Hague Regulations of 1907, the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 and Additional Protocol I of 1977.
> 
> *Under occupation law, the occupying power does not acquire sovereignty over the occupied territory and is required to respect the existing laws and institutions of the occupied territory as far as possible.* It is presumed that occupation will be temporary and that the occupying power shall preserve the status quo ante in the occupied territory._


In regards to Gaza, the "occupation" still exists because Israel retains "effective control" of that area due to their economic blockade...



> _*The laws of occupation apply if a state has "effective control" over the territory in question. *The High Court has held contrary to Israel 's claim, stating that the creation and continuation of an occupation does not depend on the existence of an institution administering the lives of the local population, but only on the extent of its military control in the area. Furthermore,* a certain area may be deemed occupied even if the army does not have a fixed presence throughout the whole area.* Leading experts in humanitarian law maintain that effective control may also exist when the army controls key points in a particular area, reflecting its power over the entire area and preventing an alternative central government from formulating and carrying out its powers.* The broad scope of Israeli control in the Gaza Strip, which exists despite the lack of a physical presence of IDF soldiers in the territory, creates a reasonable basis for the assumption that this control amounts to "effective control," such that the laws of occupation continue to apply.* _


Civilians living under the belligerent occupation of a foreign power are "protected persons" and are not to be treated as military targets.  Israel is obligated to protect and maintain civilian infrastructure within the territories it occupy's.  But it's done just the opposite.  The Gaza seige punishes the entire population of 1.5 million people.



> _*Restrictions on food supplies*
> 
> *Since the beginning of the siege, in 2007, Israel has prohibited the entry of many basic foodstuffs into the strip*, according to a list that changes from time to time. The ease in restrictions announced in July 2010 applies mostly to household goods.  Therefore, Gazan markets now offer a much greater variety of products, yet these are unattainable for many families due to the high poverty rate.
> 
> ...


That no-go zone is on the Palestinian side of the fence where Israel has no legal jurisdiction.  As for protecting civilian infrastructure....



> _*Operation Cast Lead*
> 
> In Operation Cast Lead (27 December 2008 to 18 January 2009), *Israel not only killed and wounded thousands of persons but also caused extensive damage to homes, to factories and to agricultural structures, as well as to the electricity, sanitation, water, and health infrastructures in the strip, which were already on the verge of collapse due to the siege. * During the operation, only 25 percent of the electricity demand was met.  Half a million residents did not receive running water, and sewage flowed in the streets._


As for _*"johnnies"*_....



> _Testimony 1  Human Shield
> 
> *People are called Johnnie. Theyre Palestinian civilians in Gaza neighborhoods. In checking out houses, we send the neighbor in, the Johnnie, and if there are armed men inside*, we (use) pressure cooker procedures.to get them out alive.to catch the armed men. When necessary, combat helicopters are called in to fire anti-tank missiles at civilian homes. Then send a *Johnnie* in to check for dead and wounded.
> 
> Human shields were also used to check for booby-traps and perform other services. *Sometimes the force would enter while placing rifle barrels on a civilians shoulder, advancing into the house and using him as a human shield.* Commanders said these were the instructions and we had to do it. _


How's that for referenced material?


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



lol, do you believe your mindless prattle?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Hollie said:


> *Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'*
> 
> Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell' &mdash; RT
> 
> You might want to consider applying for the position of Field Marshall General / Fuehrer of the Hamas army.


But when Hamas say's it will accept a two-state solution on the basis of the '67 borders, you automatically dismiss it as bullshit.

It seems that you only accept Hamas statements when they fit your agenda and argument.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Rules For Retaliation
> 
> 1. A head for an eye.
> 
> ...


An "eye for an eye" isn't the whole statement.

"Vengence" is HIS, not ours.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > ^^^^^^ evidence that irosie forgot to take her meds this morning..........
> ...


Try to keep up with the topic nitwit.

I have only posted about the bottle rockets launched from Gaza and nothing else.


----------



## ima (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



sunni can't even grow a beard, has fake teeth, and they won't let him kiss the carpets at the mosque.


----------



## ima (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Rules For Retaliation
> ...



Religion is what got us to this point in the ME. Anyways, the bible is all hearsay and bs.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

ima said:


> Religion is what got us to this point in the ME. Anyways, the bible is all hearsay and bs.


Yeah, the religion called............._*neo-liberalism!*_


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...



those rockets have killed lots of people     My son was visiting SDEROT  
   the alarms went off----He was able to telephone me from the shelter there---
   as we were talking I could hear the explosions ----then the news----SOMEONE 
   WAS KILLED ----it was an adult -----an innocent from THAILAND walking 
   in an opened field ---got hit    Sad news----it is true that those "bottle rockets" 
   usually do not KILL adults  -----mostly children---but sometimes they can
   kill adults     
     Sunni   YOU DISGUST ME
   YOU DISGUST ME  ----SUNNI


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > *Hamas says now in 'open war' with Israel, promises 'gates of hell'*
> ...



Where have I dismissed it as bullshit?

More to the point, how do you reconcile that alleged comment on behalf of Hamas with their charter?


----------



## Connery (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > It would be nice if you start using reference material.
> ...


According to Justice Richard Goldstone, who chaired the U.N. fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict: "*The crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying ** its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.* While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committees report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also *indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy*. "... *I regret that our fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians in Gaza were targeted*..."
Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - Washington Post

Clearly, Israel was defending itself against attacks from the Palestinians.


----------



## ima (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Religion is what got us to this point in the ME. Anyways, the bible is all hearsay and bs.
> ...



Do you have a link to their actual church, or you just have no real answer?


----------



## ima (Jan 6, 2013)

Connery said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...


Gee, a commission run by a Jew heaps blame on the arabs. How quaint.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

The zionist psychopaths who rule Israel know that the small bottle rockets launched from Gaza are really no threat to Israel.

But it's good PR for the western media.

And helps Israel get mountain's of money and weapons from the U.S. under the guise of defending itself from attack and invasion by the Palestinians.


----------



## Connery (Jan 6, 2013)

ima said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



You are funny, just not in a humorous way.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 6, 2013)

ima said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


Whst Goldstone said after the report was written is rather meaningless, there were many involved with investigating and reaching findings and the report stands as written. And despite what Goldstone has said since the report was issued, there most definitely are fndings in that report that Israel deliberately targeted civilians in attacks.


----------



## ima (Jan 6, 2013)

Connery said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...


At least my avatar doesn't think he's Indiana Jones! 

Btw, time for some "Just for Men".


----------



## boedicca (Jan 6, 2013)

The situation in the Middle East is not the biggest threat to world peace.

The biggest thread is Food Shortages.   Developing countries are already experiencing shortages (starvation) and developed ones are seeing inflation. Why?

- The U.S., one of the world's largest grain exporters, burns corn for fuel.   It's insane.  No successful society ever burned its food supply for food, but there you have it.

- Resistance to GMO foods.   The Elite who have food wish to deny starving people access to GMO foods, especially seeds so they can grow their own in harsh climates.  I personally find it disgusting that somebody thousands of miles away thinks he has the right to decide that children die because GMO food is not politically correct.

- Totalitarian Leaders of Failed Societies.  We provide tons of foreign aid which Never Reaches the people who need it. Instead it supports and protects tyrants.


Starving people are going to drive the world to instability.   China, due to its lack of arable land, is buying up land in Africa.  What happens to the Africans if the food grown on that land is now sent to China?


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

I agree----the problem is actually being ignored 
in the USA  which SHOULD be throwing efforts 
into producing  a  BIG SURPLUS----security  in 
the coming decades will be in the hands of 
the people with  FULL GRANARIES
More important than weapons


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> The illegal rouge state of Israel is the most aggressive and destabilizing nation is the middle east.
> 
> It is terrorist state ruled by zionist psychopaths with a racist apartheid agenda.
> 
> And populated by 7 million people suffering from stockholm syndrome induced by obedience to their former Nazi masters/mentors.



I think Sunni Man's avatar clearly shows that he wants to make the United States a Muslim country.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
> ...



Iran's war with Iraq caused over a million deaths.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I think Sunni Man's avatar clearly shows that he wants to make the United States a Muslim country.


Wow......you are a regular Sherlock Holmes.......


----------



## Connery (Jan 6, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Connery said:
> ...


  sherri as usual you like to "cook" the fruit of an investigation...


----------



## Lipush (Jan 6, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > The illegal rouge state of Israel is the most aggressive and destabilizing nation is the middle east.
> ...



And he calls *US* psychopaths...


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

Lipush said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...




  Even worse----he accused Israel of being a  
    RED CHEEKED  'rouge'  STATE     

             keep in mind---using rouge is immoral  
                    if you are a  QUAKER     I never use 
                    rouge---I am a natural blusher but 
                    skipped  "hot-flashes"


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > I think Sunni Man's avatar clearly shows that he wants to make the United States a Muslim country.
> ...




You are a mere goofy, pedestrian convert who has never had any exposure to the retrograde politico-religious ideology you use to shield you from reconciling your failings.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

^^^^^ I bet you can't repete that long run-on sentence 3 times really fast without messing up.......


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^^^ I bet you can't repete that long run-on sentence 3 times really fast without messing up.......



And I've already bet and won that you would be unable to post a coherent reply.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jan 6, 2013)

^^^^^^ It's not my fault that you have reading comprehension problems.........


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah...with all due respect, has it ever occurred to you that your "One True God" is simply another lie the rich tell?
> ...


The moon is real.
Jesus is a myth.

"Part I questions religions as being god-given stories, arguing that the Christian religion specifically is mainly derived from other religions, astronomical assertions, astrological myths and traditions, which in turn were derived from or shared elements with other traditions. 

"In furtherance of the Jesus myth hypothesis this part argues that the historical Jesus is a literary and astrological hybrid, *nurtured politically*."

Zeitgeist: The Movie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hollie (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^^^^ It's not my fault that you have reading comprehension problems.........


It's your _wannabe islamist_ syndrome that causes you such confusion. 

A wannabe who is a never-was


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

proudveteran06 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Take you own advice by answering this question:
> ...


The innocent Muslims I'm referring to lived in Afghanistan and Iraq prior to the arrival of thousands of US troops. Those troops facilitated the murder, maiming, displacement, and incarceration of millions of innocent Muslims who couldn't find New York or Jerusalem on the closest map.

Are you Proud of the war crimes committed by US troops in the Middle East during the 21st Century, Vet?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> proudveteran06 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


*Welcome to the revolution, rosie!*

"In November, the ACLU and other organizations sent a letter to President Obama urging him to veto the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) if it impedes the closing of Guantánamo Bay prison by extending restrictions on transferring detainees from the facility. 

"The current transfer restrictions are due to expire on March 27, 2013, but the pending NDAA bills in Congress would extend them until September 30, 2013. 

"The letter tells the president that if the restrictions are extended, 'the prospects for Guantánamo being closed during your presidency will be severely diminished, if not gone altogether.' You can read the full letter here"

NDAA | American Civil Liberties Union


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Free dogs hunt wherever they want.
Stop thinking like a slave.

In Mandate Palestine of 1948, 650,000 Jews inflicted a Jewish state by force of arms upon a Palestinians population of nearly 2,000,000 citizens.

That was wrong at the time, and it's still wrong today.
Dead wrong.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

Skull Pilot said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> ...


According to one account I've read, 20% of the dollars in circulation in some congressional districts come directly from "defense" spending. I've personally witnessed the destruction of one local economy when a large USAF closed during our "peace dividend."

If this economy CRASHES loudly enough to focus US attention spans the same way 911 did and the Pentagon can no longer borrow enough money to kill Muslims in Afghanistan, look for US drones over Mexico, killing thousands of Americans every year for Wall Street.


----------



## ima (Jan 6, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > The illegal rouge state of Israel is the most aggressive and destabilizing nation is the middle east.
> ...



It's because he thinks that sharia is cool, because he's never actually lived under sharia, just like the fake carpet kisser that he is. 
Sunni thinks Islam is so great that he doesn't even have a beard... or real teeth.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


We are gearing up to leave Afghanistan, Georgie Boy, and I can just imagine what will happen to so many innocent people who live there, especially the women.  You really are not interested in them; you just hate this country even though you had an opportunity to better yourself.  All you want to do is bash America.  Just look at your ridiculous statement that we are going to have drones over Mexico, thus killing thousands of Americans.  It's a shame that you didn't join the Peace Corps and see how unfortunate people live around the world.  Perhaps then you would appreciate this country.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

"According to a previously undisclosed agreement between President Barack Obama and his Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon, the Pentagon is authorized to fly unmanned surveillance flights over Mexico, a big expansion of U.S.-Mexico information-sharing on counternarcotics.

"One of the drones used for the mission is the Air Force&#8217;s Global Hawk, reports The New York Times. The drone soars at up to 60,000 feet with a multitude of sensors. (Calm down, it&#8217;s unarmed.)"

If you're ignorant enough to believe US elites won't kill Mexicans for money at least as efficiently as Muslims, you probably haven't a clue about the number of US women raped while serving in their military.

Or maybe "you are not really interested in them?"

U.S. Drones Are Now Sniffing Mexican Drugs | Danger Room | Wired.com


----------



## jillian (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "According to a previously undisclosed agreement between President Barack Obama and his Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon, the Pentagon is authorized to fly unmanned surveillance flights over Mexico, a big expansion of U.S.-Mexico information-sharing on counternarcotics.
> 
> "One of the drones used for the mission is the Air Forces Global Hawk, reports The New York Times. The drone soars at up to 60,000 feet with a multitude of sensors. (Calm down, its unarmed.)"
> 
> ...



a normal person would know that jihadis are the greatest threat to world peace and have been for a decade.

but you're not normal.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 6, 2013)

ima said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 6, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Link?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...





> It's a shame that you didn't join the Peace Corps and see how unfortunate people live around the world.



It is interesting that a people can live in a place for thousands of years without assistance.

Enter foreigners.

The next thing you see is food aid.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

jillian said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "According to a previously undisclosed agreement between President Barack Obama and his Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon, the Pentagon is authorized to fly unmanned surveillance flights over Mexico, a big expansion of U.S.-Mexico information-sharing on counternarcotics.
> ...


Mayhaps you've walked a few too many Brooklyn miles in those heels, Jillian?
Have we bumped our head recently?
So far, jihadis haven't acquired any nuclear weapons.
Apparently, the same can not be said for the Jewish State.

If it's true that there are currently nearly equal numbers of Jews and Arabs living between the River and the sea, what form of state do you see coming into existence?


----------



## member (Jan 6, 2013)

*GEORGEPHILLIP:* _*(The gravest threat to world peace) --- Is not (just) Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:  The first question is easily answered. The 'Iranian threat' is overwhelmingly a Western obsession, shared by Arab dictators, though not Arab populations.  As numerous polls have shown. . . *_












*Is not (just) Iran.*


. . ._it's all of them_. . .




*Afghanistan*










*Pakistan*









*Yemen*












*Iran*








*Iraq*






*LIBYA*







*Lebanon*






*Syria*




*Saudi Arabia*







*The west Bank*





*The gaza strip*







*The Ramallah Refugee camp*




*The horn of Africa*






*"OTHER" = majority black/Islamic*









*NON-OTHER-whoever*
_NORTH KOREA_, INDIA, RUSSIA, HONDURAS, _MEXICO_, INDONESIA, _CHINA_ - etc....


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

Member...OJ did 911?

Only one country on this planet gets rich from killing millions of human beings thousands of miles from its homeland. Maybe you should stop blaming the victims of US eternal war?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


*Or famine.*

"In Ireland, the Great Famine was a period of mass starvation, disease and emigration between 1845 and 1852..."

"During the famine approximately 1 million people died and a million more emigrated from Ireland,[3] causing the island's population to fall by between 20% and 25%."

More than a few rich (royal) Brits padded their bottom lines at the expense of their colonial victims in Ireland. Proving once again the costs of Empire usually falls on those least able to pay them.

Great Famine (Ireland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ima (Jan 6, 2013)

member said:


> _it's all of them_. . .



So we should gas them all? or stick them in ovens? What?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 6, 2013)

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^^^^ evidence that irosie forgot to take her meds this morning..........



But if you believe that emblem of yours is the future flag of America you might want to consider getting on some because you have surely lost your mind.  America is not Europe ( or France to be more specific ) nor shall she ever be.  

-Jeremiah


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip, kull Pilot, _et al,_

There was a line in the Movie: The Right Stuff, that goes:  "No Bucks, no Buck Rogers."



			
				Joint Chief of Staff Chairman Admiral Mullen said:
			
		

> Our debt is the biggest national security threat we face.
> SOURCE::  Adm. Mike Mullen: Debt is still biggest threat to U.S. security - Fortune Management



The line referred to general revenue to pay for the program.



georgephillip said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

ADM Mullen was referring to the ability of the US to sustain our significant military advantage over other nations if the US economy and the debt weaken the funding stream.

If the general economy slows, and the middle class suffers a high level of unemployment and the financial system is propped-up by foreign banks --- the US will not be able to maintain the infrastructure necessary to create the necessary taxes to support US Foreign Policy.

This is more true today, as it has ever been.  The US has already admitted that it cannot support the Afghan National Army at the level that will insure the security of the current government.

However, it may appear, the US economy is not totally dependent on the defense industries.  Clearly the defense industries do contribute to selected local economies.  And it is true that some local economies are almost totally dependent on the single industry for its revenue.  But many of the economies would be better balanced if they were a mixture of several independent industries. 

It would be much better for the US if the nation significantly reduced the level at which it support the defense industries and, instead, channeled that funding to domestic infrastructure programs (highways, railways, waterways, the electrical grid, education programs, scientific endeavors, medical research, and space exploration, etc).  These types of programs circle the funding inside the domestic economy to a level 50% more than defense spending.  There is no return on the US investment in Iraq or Afghanistan (as example).  But each dollar spent the domestic programs has a much greater investment for a much longer term.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 6, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Iran
Casualties and losses
Iran
320,000720,000 soldiers and militia killed[2][3][4]:3[5] 
Economic loss of more than US$500 billion[4]:3

Iraq
150,000375,000 soldiers and militia killed[6] 
Economic loss of more than $500 billion[4]:3

100,000+ civilians killed on both sides[3]


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



What isn't normal here is your denial that the jihadist have not been reported to have acquired nuclear weapons.  We have the State Dept. report that there are nuclear suitcase weapons in the hands of jihadists even now.  We also have the missing weapons Russian scientists reported on, the highly unstable situation in Pakistan ( nuclear weapons a serious concern ) the nuclear weapon ambitions of the islamic jihadist in control of Iran at this writing and if that isn't enough we have people such as George who do not know their facts and try to silence those who do!  What a something.  Keep writing Jillian.  Someone needs to warn the people and it obviously will not be George. Not today anyhow. 

 - Jeremiah


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Iran's war with Iraq caused over a million deaths.


That was a war Iraq started with US support.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> the nuclear weapon ambitions of the islamic jihadist in control of Iran at this writing
> - Jeremiah


There has been no smoking gun presented or IAEA report saying this is true, as of this date.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

ima said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


Now let's see if Frau Sherri gives her newest bestest friend, Frau Ima, the business that Frau Ima hates Muslims the way Frau Sherri throws it out to anyone who says anything negative or derogatory about Islam or Muslims.  Frau Sherri was very quiet when Frau Ima said such disgusting things to Sunni Man that even though I disagree with him on everything else, I can see why he was going to put the Frau Ima on Ignore.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Now let's see if Frau Sherri gives her newest bestest friend, Frau Ima, the business that Frau Ima hates Muslims the way Frau Sherri throws it out to anyone who says anything negative or derogatory about Islam or Muslims.  Frau Sherri was very quiet when Frau Ima said such disgusting things to Sunni Man that even though I disagree with him on everything else, I can see why he was going to put the Frau Ima on Ignore.


Suck my cock, ya little dumbass jew!


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Now let's see if Frau Sherri gives her newest bestest friend, Frau Ima, the business that Frau Ima hates Muslims the way Frau Sherri throws it out to anyone who says anything negative or derogatory about Islam or Muslims.  Frau Sherri was very quiet when Frau Ima said such disgusting things to Sunni Man that even though I disagree with him on everything else, I can see why he was going to put the Frau Ima on Ignore.
> ...


Wrong nationality.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


We all realize (at least those with common sense) that there have been famines and droughts since the beginning of time, Georgie Boy.  However, why not give America kudos for helping out many of the starving people in this world?  It is obvious that you get your jollies blaming America for everything (including your own situation), but would it kill you to give America credit for what it has done for unfortunate people around the globe once in a while?  And, don't worry, because I think the good people of Los Angeles will see that your belly is never empty like those poor people in many Muslim countries.  Have we ever seen Georgie Boy suggest that the oil-rich Muslim states step up to the plate and start helping their fellow Muslims who are hungry?  It appears that it was more important for Georgie Boy to run to Wikipedia to tell us about Ireland.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Huh?


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Of course, Tinnie conveniently closes his eyes to places where no foreigners went where the people were starving and had no help against infectious diseases and death was just around the corner,  So tell us are foreigners responsible for the floods in Pakistan or the drought in Somali, Tinnie?  Weren't many of these people able to get on with their lives with the help of "foreigners."  I think Tinnie wouldn't care at all if millions of Muslim Somalis dropped dead in the roads because of starvation as long as his beloved Hamas doesn't miss a meal.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "According to a previously undisclosed agreement between President Barack Obama and his Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon, the Pentagon is authorized to fly unmanned surveillance flights over Mexico, a big expansion of U.S.-Mexico information-sharing on counternarcotics.
> 
> "One of the drones used for the mission is the Air Force&#8217;s Global Hawk, reports The New York Times. The drone soars at up to 60,000 feet with a multitude of sensors. (Calm down, it&#8217;s unarmed.)"
> 
> ...


It sure looks like Georgie Boy doesn't want the drug cartels taken out.  Since he doesn't plan to take a trip down to Tijuana or beyond, he is not worried about being caught up in their wars and being killed.  Other innocent Americans can be killed by members of the drug cartels and little Georgie Boy will be safely ensconced in front of his computer bashing America as per usual.  We all are aware that there have been rapes of women in the military, but how come when it comes to rapes you have been so silent about the Muslim men raping their way across Europe?  Or doesn't this interest you because you can't blame this on America, Georgie Boy?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...


When did I deny the State Department's report that jihadists do not have nuclear suitcases?
There''s no doubt that Israel has many nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver them from air, land, and sea.
Pakistan and India developed their nukes with the help of the US scientific and intelligence communities.
Finally, only one country has actually used nuclear weapons on civilians.
It's the same country with 700 military bases outside its continental homeland today and tomorrow.
It's normal doctrine is "what we say, goes."
or else.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


"Weary men, what reap ye? *Golden corn for the stranger*.

"What sow ye? Human corpses that wait for the avenger.
 Fainting forms, Hunger-stricken, what see you in the offing
 Stately ships to bear our food away, amid the stranger's scoffing.
*There's a proud array of soldiers*&#8212;what do they round your door?
 They guard our *master's* granaries from the thin hands of the poor.
 Pale mothers, wherefore weeping? 'Would to God that we were dead&#8212;
Our children swoon before us, and *we cannot give them bread.*[68]

Speranza[fn 5]"

*Why do conservatives instinctively support the masters, Hossie?*

Great Famine (Ireland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Conservatives abhor Socialists, Communists, Fascists and Dickheads.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Conservatives abhor Socialists, Communists, Fascists and Dickheads.


And intelligence, common sense, logical deductive reasoning and American patriotism.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "According to a previously undisclosed agreement between President Barack Obama and his Mexican counterpart, Felipe Calderon, the Pentagon is authorized to fly unmanned surveillance flights over Mexico, a big expansion of U.S.-Mexico information-sharing on counternarcotics.
> ...


Are we also all aware there are currently more successful suicides among members of the US military than there are combat fatalities? Do you think Dick and Dubya deserve bonuses for those numbers?

People in my neighborhood risk getting shot for wearing the wrong color on the wrong block, so I don't need the Mexican cartels. Help yourself. While you're at it, ask your new amigos which Wall Street banks launder their drug profits.

You must have been quite a man once upon a time, Hossie.
It's sad to see what you've become.
Maybe prayer five times a day would help?


----------



## yidnar (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > There is a reason why Chomsky is a boorish ass; episodes of stupidity such as you posted.
> ...


leave to a leftist like you to defend the country that is the biggest sponsor of terror in the modern world.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

yidnar said:


> leave to a leftist like you to defend the country that is the biggest sponsor of terror in the modern world.


Yeah, yeah, yeah...

...and Iraq had WMD's, the checks' in the mail and I won't cum in your mouth!


----------



## yidnar (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> 
> "Reporting on the final U.S. presidential campaign debate, on foreign policy, The Wall Street Journal observed that 'the only country mentioned more (than Israel) was Iran, which is seen by most nations in the Middle East as the gravest security threat to the region...'"
> 
> ...


let me guess....you voted for Obama didn't you ..


----------



## yidnar (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> > leave to a leftist like you to defend the country that is the biggest sponsor of terror in the modern world.
> ...


 do realy believe Saddam didn't have chems ???he killed 300,000 people and threatened to use them if we invaded....you are nothing more than a coward and a faggot[libb] and your dick is probably so small that you have to squat to piss.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

yidnar said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> ...


George wrote in Chumpsky.


----------



## yidnar (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> > leave to a leftist like you to defend the country that is the biggest sponsor of terror in the modern world.
> ...


Loinboy........LOIN......blahaaa,haaa,haaaa........KISS MY LOINS BOY


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

yidnar said:


> Loinboy........LOIN......blahaaa,haaa,haaaa........KISS MY LOINS BOY


In light of your avatar...

...are you really that anatomical?


----------



## yidnar (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> > Loinboy........LOIN......blahaaa,haaa,haaaa........KISS MY LOINS BOY
> ...


I SHALL CALL YOU LOIN BITCH !!!


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 6, 2013)

yidnar said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Is not Iran in spite of what the Wall Street Journal would like you to believe:
> ...


Nope.
I haven't voted for a Republican OR Democrat in decades except in a few state and local races.
I hope you didn't waste your vote on Money Mitt.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

yidnar said:


> i shall call you loin bitch !!!


  And i shall call you "tossed salad!"


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Hossfly isn't Jewish, but I am.  Someone's anti-Semitism is showing.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 6, 2013)

yidnar said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > yidnar said:
> ...



He had no WMD, idiot? Where have you been, hiding in a cave somewhere? We never found WMD, there was no WMD! We had just a lot of people telling a lot of lies to start an unneccessary war and to use as an excuse to cause the deaths of over 1 million Arabs in Iraq!

Chemical weapons, yes, at one time, many years earlier, Saddam had them, the US knows all about that since we sent Saddam components to make those chemical weapons with, we even sent him a scientist from Texas  to help him make chemical weapons to use against Iran and the Kurds. And Robert Fisk documented all that in his book The Great War For Civilisation. 

Sherri


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Jan 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



You can pray to that moon rock 20 times a day and you will still get the same results.  Nothing.  Try praying to the God of Israel in Jesus name and watch what he will do for you.  By the way, are you the one that asked for evidence that the God of the bible is real?  I didn't catch the name but wanted to answer that one.  Thanks.  

- Jeremiah


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Hossfly isn't Jewish, but I am.  Someone's anti-Semitism is showing.


What's anti-semitic about gettin' yer dick sucked by some heblew wannabe?

It's not like I was criticizing Israel for God's sake!


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> yidnar said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


It looks like someone might be disagreeing with you.  I often wondered why the MIGs found by our own military were buried in the sand.

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says - The New York Sun


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> It looks like someone might be disagreeing with you.  I often wondered why the MIGs found by our own military were buried in the sand.
> 
> Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says - The New York Sun


Maybe they forgot, or maybe they were just trying to put things in the way of our oil that was under their sand?


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 6, 2013)

Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly  
Now let's see if Frau Sherri gives her newest bestest friend, Frau Ima, the business that Frau Ima hates Muslims the way Frau Sherri throws it out to anyone who says anything negative or derogatory about Islam or Muslims. Frau Sherri was very quiet when Frau Ima said such disgusting things to Sunni Man that even though I disagree with him on everything else, I can see why he was going to put the Frau Ima on Ignore.

Quote: Originally posted by loinboy
Suck my cock, ya little dumbass jew! 



loinboy said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly isn't Jewish, but I am.  Someone's anti-Semitism is showing.
> ...



Ho ho ho. Another anti-Semitic twit slithers out of the closet. You fool no one, Princess. You readily admit you care nothing about the suffering in the Mideast conflict. You are here strictly to vent your hate for "little dumbass Jews" and nothing more.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> Ho ho ho. Another anti-Semitic twit slithers out of the closet. You fool no one, Princess. You readily admit you care nothing about the suffering in the Mideast conflict. You are here strictly to vent your hate for "little dumbass Jews" and nothing more.


I guess _"smart ass jew" _would've been more PC?


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Ho ho ho. Another anti-Semitic twit slithers out of the closet. You fool no one, Princess. You readily admit you care nothing about the suffering in the Mideast conflict. You are here strictly to vent your hate for "little dumbass Jews" and nothing more.
> ...



It matters not ... you fool no one.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like someone might be disagreeing with you.  I often wondered why the MIGs found by our own military were buried in the sand.
> ...


Not very smart to get sand in the engines of those MIGs.  And your statement about them placing those MIGs in the sand to put them in the way of our getting Iraqi oil is rather pathetic.  You make it sound like there were thousands and thousands of MIGs in the desert there for just that purpose.

MiG Jet Fighter Found Buried in Iraq - Netlore Archive


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 6, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly
> Now let's see if Frau Sherri gives her newest bestest friend, Frau Ima, the business that Frau Ima hates Muslims the way Frau Sherri throws it out to anyone who says anything negative or derogatory about Islam or Muslims. Frau Sherri was very quiet when Frau Ima said such disgusting things to Sunni Man that even though I disagree with him on everything else, I can see why he was going to put the Frau Ima on Ignore.
> 
> Quote: Originally posted by loinboy
> ...


Not only that, Sayit, but I figured in a roundabout way he was telling us his favorite activity in his favorite bar in Long Beach. CA.  Maybe he waits for the guys working on the docks to come in after work so he can pick up a few bucks.


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Quote: Originally Posted by Hossfly
> ...



A person's sexual orientation is of no interest to me nor is how loinboy enjoys his "happy" hours.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Not only that, Sayit, but I figured in a roundabout way he was telling us his favorite activity in his favorite bar in Long Beach. CA.  Maybe he waits for the guys working on the docks to come in after work so he can pick up a few bucks.


No, they all go to Ferns over on 4th St.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> A person's sexual orientation is of no interest to me nor is how loinboy enjoys his "happy" hours.


Ah, but is it related to anti-semitism?


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 6, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> It matters not ... you fool no one.


One of my favorite Deep Purple songs!


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zig5GvZ-d0k]Deep Purple You Fool No One - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 7, 2013)

Jeremiah said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


You're welcome.
Please proceed with your proof.


----------



## ima (Jan 7, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...


He put me on ignore because he's a fucking pussy fake muslim. A real muslim would fight back. IF he goes to a mosque, they probably make him go pray with the women.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 7, 2013)

loinboy, Hossfly, _et al,_

*(A BIT OFF TOPIC)*

MG Georges Sada made this claim over six years ago.  And there is little to no evidence to support it.  I highly suspect, as well as many others, that MG Sada made the claim to sell a book and to put together a grub stake in exchange for entry into the US.  He tells them what they want to hear.



			
				Report Finds No Evidence Syria Hid Iraqi Arms said:
			
		

> The Iraq Survey Group's main findings -- that Hussein's Iraq did not possess chemical and biological weapons and had only aspirations for a nuclear program -- were made public in October in an interim report covering nearly 1,000 pages. Yesterday's final report, published on the Government Printing Office's Web site ( U.S. Government Printing Office Home Page ), incorporated those pages with minor editing and included 92 pages of addenda that tied up loose ends on Syria and other topics.
> 
> U.S. officials have held out the possibility that Syria worked in tandem with Hussein's government to hide weapons before the U.S.-led invasion. The survey group said it followed up on reports that a Syrian security officer had discussed collaboration with Iraq on weapons, but it was unable to complete that investigation. But Iraqi officials whom the group was able to interview "uniformly denied any knowledge of residual WMD that could have been secreted to Syria," the report said.
> *SOURCE:* Report Finds No Evidence Syria Hid Iraqi Arms
> *REFERENCE:* Iraq Survey Group Final Report





loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like someone might be disagreeing with you.  I often wondered why the MIGs found by our own military were buried in the sand.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

There is a couple things wrong with the whole idea that the Saddam Hussein regime would hide WMD in Syria. 


First, the whole idea behind have the weapons, if not to use in an offensive strategy, would be to defend Iraq.  He did neither.  But if your country is about to fall to an aggressor, you really have nothing to lose by unleashing your terror weapon.

Second, Iraq (Saddam) wanted to be the Middle East strong man.  The entire idea behind the WMD Program was for Iraq to extend its military influence across the region.  Iraq would not give that advantage away to Syria.

The WMD Issue in Iraq is a case that will be in dispute forever, because the government and the people behind the war effort simply don't want to admit to blunders on various levels.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> v There is a couple things wrong with the whole idea that the Saddam Hussein regime would hide WMD in Syria.
> 
> 
> First, the whole idea behind have the weapons, if not to use in an offensive strategy, would be to defend Iraq.  He did neither.  But if your country is about to fall to an aggressor, you really have nothing to lose by unleashing your terror weapon.
> ...


Country's don't normally give their weapons to an enemy for safe keeping.  But for the sake of argument, let's say they did.  It's hard to believe we wouldn't notice a convoy of semi's, traveling a 1000 miles across a desert, in a place that is one of the most watched areas in the world, with satellites that can read a license plate from 200 miles out in space.

Hans Blix was right.  Iraq hadn't had any WMD's since 1993 and had no infrastructure in place to make any since we bombed them back to the stone age in the first Persian Gulf war.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 7, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> loinboy, Hossfly, _et al,_
> 
> *(A BIT OFF TOPIC)*
> 
> ...





> The WMD Issue in Iraq is a case that will be in dispute forever,



There is no dispute. Bush and his criminal friends lied.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 7, 2013)

loinboy said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > v There is a couple things wrong with the whole idea that the Saddam Hussein regime would hide WMD in Syria.
> ...



Who can believe that a truck full of weapons could leave Iraq without mossad riding shotgun?


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 7, 2013)

lionboy,  _et al,_

You are correct (IMO).  This idea of Iraq WMD in Syria is so wrong on a number of different levels.  



loinboy said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > v There is a couple things wrong with the whole idea that the Saddam Hussein regime would hide WMD in Syria.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

I would not put all that much faith in the overhead intelligence platform surveillance system.  It simply wasn't that good.  I watched the squints convince a senior level official that a fire truck was a decontamination unit. 

But Hans Blix and Scott Ritter were essentially correct.  The intelligence was fouled up because were we analyzing what we saw, and not what we didn't see.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Lipush (Jan 7, 2013)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Shhhh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 don't say it like that, you might just upset him.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 7, 2013)

Poor hoss-----he is being accused of being jewish----
   hoss ---fret not----it happened to poor Robert 
  Spencer too

    you remember   HAMLET ?    I did read an essay 
about that play which was based on the writers
concept that  ROSENKRANZ and  GUILDENSTERN     
 are  "obviously"  jews


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 7, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Poor hoss-----he is being accused of being jewish----
> hoss ---fret not----it happened to poor Robert
> Spencer too
> 
> ...


Oh, but it doesn't bother me. I am flattered.And though I'm not Jewish, I am descended from Manessah and I follow the Commandments and I eat Kosher as much as possible.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

Lipush said:


> Shhhh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rehearsing your reaction speech again?

Why would I be upset over something that has nothing to do with me?  We all know the A-card is automatically played everytime someone criticizes Israel.  It's been played so often, that it has lost all its meaning and any connection to planet earth.  You just use it now, to punish anyone who criticizes Israel, because you don't have the balls to clean your own house and don't like hearing people commenting on how fucked up your lawn looks.  But instead of mowing the god-damn grass, you attack your neighbor's, because they hold proper housekeeping in higher regard.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Oh, but it doesn't bother me. I am flattered.And though I'm not Jewish, I am descended from Manessah and I follow the Commandments and I eat Kosher as much as possible.


You're a Hebrew wannabe, who constantly breaks the 9th Commandment on a daily basis.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 7, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, but it doesn't bother me. I am flattered.And though I'm not Jewish, I am descended from Manessah and I follow the Commandments and I eat Kosher as much as possible.
> ...


I'm not Catholic either but I eat fish on Friday. Actually on Wednesday because Captain D's has a senior special.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> *(COMMENT)*
> 
> I would not put all that much faith in the overhead intelligence platform surveillance system.  It simply wasn't that good.  I watched the squints convince a senior level official that a fire truck was a decontamination unit.
> 
> ...


We fouled up, because ever since Reagan was in office, we politicized our intel and cherry-picked what we wanted to use and dismissed what we couldn't.  The smoking gun is when Bush told the British government he was going to _*"fix the intel"*_ around the policy.  There was no better example of this than the 16 words George Tenet took out of the SOTU speech, that was put back in by Cheney, regarding the uranian tubes.  This was done in spite of the fact that the Administration had known for two weeks that the IAEA had said they were for centrifuges.  But they dismissed what the nuclear experts had said and went with what a coke-head name Curveball said.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 7, 2013)

The  WMD    thing has been transformed into a kind of  LIBEL 
by propagandaists  who also claim that  WMD  means 
"NUCLEAR WEAPONS"          Bush never claimed they had  
NUCLEAR WEAPONS -------and I certainly did not believe they 
did but still considered that they had a  WMD-----to wit   the 
very   ADOLF - LIKE    Saddaam Hussein and his merry crew


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> I'm not Catholic either but I eat fish on Friday. Actually on Wednesday because Captain D's has a senior special.


I don't follow that one either.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> The  WMD    thing has been transformed into a kind of  LIBEL
> by propagandaists  who also claim that  WMD  means
> "NUCLEAR WEAPONS"          Bush never claimed they had
> NUCLEAR WEAPONS -------and I certainly did not believe they
> ...


We knew they had gas, because we sold it to them.


----------



## Jos (Jan 7, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> The  WMD    thing has been transformed into a kind of  LIBEL
> by propagandaists  who also claim that  WMD  means
> "NUCLEAR WEAPONS"          Bush never claimed they had
> NUCLEAR WEAPONS -------and I certainly did not believe they
> ...



Dont change the charge now, Bush  and colin Powell claimed chemical and biological weapons Rumsfeld said in an ABC News interview when asked about WMDs: "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."


----------



## Jos (Jan 7, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quo6iXnZKyE]Rumsfeld lies. again. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 7, 2013)

I know the gravest threat to man-kind---
my mother told me---->>>

        WHITE REFINED SUGAR


----------



## Jos (Jan 7, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5Ggfn9PYM]Collin powell vial of anthrax Iraq war lies - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos (Jan 7, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FejQH_VCB24]Powell Says US Should Not Have Invaded Iraq - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ima (Jan 7, 2013)

The gravest threat to world peace is definitely Israel. You don't have to be for or against Israel to know that.


----------



## Lipush (Jan 7, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > Shhhh
> ...



My raction speech is much more polite than manny other posters on this forum. I am much more polite than YOU , specifically. It is always the easier to shut the mouth of someone whose opinions are not appriciated. Used to that by now.

The A-card Is baing "played" anytime anyone criticize Israel? Maybe because those criticizers end up showing their true colors at the end of the day? Their "justice" views are only there because it's suits the twisted way in which they present Jews and Israelis

Me like attaching the neighbor's "pretty" lawn ?  I simply point out that most of his garbage he has thrown into MINE in order to make his lawn clean. IF we are using metaphores.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 7, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, but it doesn't bother me. I am flattered.And though I'm not Jewish, I am descended from Manessah and I follow the Commandments and I eat Kosher as much as possible.
> ...


Well, obviously, you are a Muslim wannabee, and we can all chip in to buy a prayer rug for you.  For all we know, you have a hankering to drop the sixth commandment and start killing innocent people just like your new brethren do.  You might have to stop drinking at your favorite bar in Long Beach and start drinking at home where no one will see you.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Well, obviously, you are a Muslim wannabee, and we can all chip in to buy a prayer rug for you.  For all we know, you have a hankering to drop the sixth commandment and start killing innocent people just like your new brethren do.  You might have to stop drinking at your favorite bar in Long Beach and start drinking at home where no one will see you.


Sorry, I've been a white Irish Catholic my whole life and I drink wherever I fuckin' please.

BTW, that bar I keep mentioning (49ner Tavern), was in the movie Baseketball.





This is Kevin, the former owner of the bar, who I was told, committed suicide when he lost 
all his money (in a law suit) and his girlfriend on the same day.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 7, 2013)

Lipush said:


> My raction speech is much more polite than manny other posters on this forum. I am much more polite than YOU , specifically. It is always the easier to shut the mouth of someone whose opinions are not appriciated. Used to that by now.


Don't talk to me about being polite, when you deliberately try to mis-characterize me as something I'm not.  And to top it off, you can't even explain why I am what you're inferring.



Lipush said:


> The A-card Is baing "played" anytime anyone criticize Israel? Maybe because those criticizers end up showing their true colors at the end of the day? Their "justice" views are only there because it's suits the twisted way in which they present Jews and Israelis


See, this is what you do!  It doesn't matter how valid the criticism is, you always have to spin it back onto whomever is doing the criticizing, as if the issue was about them and not something Israel has done. Which works out fine for people who never want to be responsible for the things they do.

International Law, is not my "justice view".  They are laws that are supposed to prevent the crap this world went through in WWII, like the Holocaust.  And when you disrespect those laws, you disrespect the victims of the Holocaust.




Lipush said:


> Me like attaching the neighbor's "pretty" lawn ?  I simply point out that most of his garbage he has thrown into MINE in order to make his lawn clean. IF we are using metaphores.


Wrong metephor!  

It's more like you built a fence across your neighbor's lawn, preventing him from having access to the street from his driveway. So now, because of your fence, he can't use his car to go to work, or to the store, or to the hospital (if he has a medical emergency) and everytime he complains about it, you take pot shots at him from your roof.  Then you go around trashing him to all the other neighbors by telling them, that its not your fence that is the problem, its that his driveway was partially built over your great, great, great, grandmothers garden, before the city was incorporated and residential lots were mapped out.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 8, 2013)

ima said:


> The gravest threat to world peace is definitely Israel. You don't have to be for or against Israel to know that.


Oh yeah.

Iran&#8217;s nuclear bomb program complete


----------



## ima (Jan 8, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > The gravest threat to world peace is definitely Israel. You don't have to be for or against Israel to know that.
> ...



Israel shouldn't have started shit, then Iran would have no one to bomb. See, it leads right back to Israel.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 8, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Of course, Frau Ima overlooks the fact that the Muslim countries, especially Iran, want Israel wiped off of the map and have had this thought since the state of Israel was established.  Perhaps Frau Ima can explain to us why in the textbooks of the Muslim world Israel doesn't even exist.  And, Frau Ima forgets one important thing -- that he/she is considered an Infidel and many Islamists would have no problem doing him/her in no matter how much he/she whines on the Internet about Israel.


----------



## Hollie (Jan 8, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



You havent identified what shit Israel started so your post appears to be little more than venting as though youre a wannabe Sherri, jr.

Historically, Iran is emulating the despotic and _Hitleresque_ pattern of increasing control of the population (including its education and access to information), belligerence, oppression of opposition parties, diversionary tactics (propaganda) to demonize "infidels / kafir"  and Jews (in this instance "Americans" and "Zionists") that followed the election of the fascists in the 1930's in Germany. 

It is remarkable to watch history repeat itself, especially as Iran moves closer and closer to obtaining nuclear weapons.

There is a bottom-feeding level of barbarism among the Iranian mullocrats (laughably referred to as the religious and political leadership), furthering and reveling in unjustifiable (albeit religiously inspired) age-old prejudices and hatreds, that make it difficult to refute the negative image of Moslems and Islam depicted in anti-Moslem cartoons and literature.


----------



## Jos (Jan 8, 2013)

> Sometimes the right and left dichotomy must be eschewed in favor of agreeing upon the simple difference between right and wrong. It is when we are not united against those who seriously challenge us and our way of life that we are most imperiled.


 Rugged's Place


----------



## ima (Jan 8, 2013)

Hollie said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



The Jews learned a lot from their Messiah, Hitler, who led them to the promised land. Just look at Gaza, it's a replica of the Warsaw Ghetto. Jews as a master race in the area, take any land that they want, the Mossad who could give the SS a run for their money...


----------



## Hollie (Jan 8, 2013)

ima said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Your characterizations are untrue and only serve to placate your prejudices.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbKxiQbJ9U0]Luxury mall opens in Gaza - YouTube[/ame]

Gaza Mall Sells 'Zionist' Goods - A7 Exclusive Features - News - Israel National News

Do a search for the Gaza theme park. 


But then again, when people elect an Islamic terrorist syndicate to perform government functions, dont expectations need to be muted?

Blog: Wash. Post exposes corruption, repression in Gaza under Hamas


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 8, 2013)

Lipush said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Among those currently living on the West Bank only Jews have enough water to grow lawns.
Why is that?


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 8, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Now that is an interesting question and observation.



georgephillip said:


> Among those currently living on the West Bank only Jews have enough water to grow lawns.
> Why is that?


*(COMMENT)*

There might be a legitimate legal claim and cause of action for the West Bank, non-Israeli population.  The Israelis have dug very deep wells _(some more than 2000 feet)_ into the aquifer.  _(The claim is that under Israeli occupation law, the Palestinians cannot dig deep wells into the aquifer.  ---   The counter claim is that the Palestinians cannot put together a viable Water Management Program.)_

This needs to be investigated and a Regional Water Management Plan developed that is fair to all living on the land.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 8, 2013)

Hollie said:


> Historically, Iran is emulating the despotic and _Hitler&#8217;esque_ pattern of increasing control of the population (including its education and access to information), belligerence, oppression of opposition parties, diversionary tactics (propaganda) to demonize "infidels / kafir"  and Jews (in this instance "Americans" and "Zionists") that followed the election of the fascists in the 1930's in Germany.


That's why Iranian citizens (70% of which are under 30) are just waiting for their old mullahs to die off, before installing a secular government that would allow them to wear Levi's in public.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 8, 2013)

Kind of funny the last time Iran elected a democratic leader, our CIA ousted him and installed a tyrannical dictator.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 8, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Now that is an interesting question and observation.
> 
> ...



The solution is the illegal settlers need to go. THEIR PRESENCE ARE DAILY WAR CRIMES!


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> The solution is the illegal settlers need to go. THEIR PRESENCE ARE DAILY WAR CRIMES!


You call them settlers, I call them Israeli insurgents.

Those fuckers are more nuts than a jihadist!
(They whacked Rabin for showing to much of his Neville Chamberlain side)


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn, georgephillip, _et al,_

I agree that, in terms of the West Bank, that the "Settlements" _(given Israeli Sovereignty)_ beyond the Treaty Terms with Jordan, appear to be a violation of the internationally accepted law.  I also agree, that the Israeli Administration of that "Occupied Territory" is more than questionable in terms of equity and fairness _(and subject to a different debate)_.  But that is not the point.



SherriMunnerlyn said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

That entire area needs to undergo a complete and total "Water Management Survey" and a long-term plan developed for the prosperity and survival of whoever ends up living on the land.  Basic necessities like water need to be equitably distributed and made commonly available for everyone _(ethnic clan and culture immaterial)_.  

This shouldn't be a fight of Israeli water versus Palestinian water.  That is ridiculous and merely demonstrates how childish and immature both sides have become in this struggle.

Both sides need to come together and work to build a prosperous and thriving regional economy in peace; not engage in such deprave disputes that are counterproductive.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## skye (Jan 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al,_
> ...




I wouldn't start using the word war, because every war you hopeless bunch of  losers have started you have lost and been forced to go begging for aid from other Arab countries who don't want to give the Palestinians one cent!

There is no such thing as illegal settlers, the Israelis have every right to build in the areas they wish under the Oslo Accords!

Whether or not there is peace is entirely up to the Palestinians, they have already been offered peace on a silver plate of 97% of their requirements plus settlement for any disputed areas, but of course what the Palestinians really want is all of Israel... and no peace until that happens.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 8, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> SherriMunnerlyn, georgephillip, _et al,_
> 
> I agree that, in terms of the West Bank, that the "Settlements" _(given Israeli Sovereignty)_ beyond the Treaty Terms with Jordan, appear to be a violation of the internationally accepted law.  I also agree, that the Israeli Administration of that "Occupied Territory" is more than questionable in terms of equity and fairness _(and subject to a different debate)_.  But that is not the point.
> 
> ...



But that will never happen unless outsiders force it to be done, present rules are nonJews are subhuman in Israel and Palestine.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 8, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Now that is an interesting question and observation.
> 
> ...


Rocco..I have to warn you...you will wear your welcome out very quickly in this asylum by being reasonable. I knew the generalities of Israel's water policies;however, I didn't know any details like drilling depth, for example.

At the time Israel came into existence, some Jews and Arabs campaigned for a Semitic Union which, in theory, could have stretched from the Nile to the Euphrates. Do you think any such Union could be forged today?

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Without-Zionism-Peace-Middle/dp/0020720505/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357694103&sr=8-1&keywords=israel+without+zionism"]http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Without-Zionism-Peace-Middle/dp/0020720505/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357694103&sr=8-1&keywords=israel+without+zionism[/ame]


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al,_
> ...



Silly camel crap.


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 8, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > SherriMunnerlyn, georgephillip, _et al,_
> ...



More camel crap but at least you're consistent.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 9, 2013)

Have you come across any kosher camels lately?

*"Two Systems: Separate and Unequal*

"Palestinians are under Military Law and face the constant threat of arrest and detention without charge and can be held indefinitely. They have no right to representation or trial. Israelis living in illegal settlements on Palestinian land have all the privileges of Israeli Civil Law. As citizens of Israel, they can vote, seek redress in court, and have freedom of speech and assembly."

itISapartheid.org 

It is apartheid...even before the (creeping) annexation of Area C.


----------



## ima (Jan 9, 2013)

skye said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



With Iran making nukes, things aren't looking too good long term for Israel. I guess one holocaust wasn't enough?


----------



## member (Jan 12, 2013)

IMA: _*"So we should gas them all? or stick them in ovens? What?"*_ 


it's no joke (the holocaust).  yeah, go ahead and make 'light' of it.  obviously, you mean like what Hitler did to anyone (butcher, baker, candlestick-maker) who was _just jewish_ ??  people were gassed and put in ovens just for that. how sick was that ?

Hitler and his men, a collective evil that was.  just like the Taliban, ETC.

I don't care for having to use deadly force, (unfortunately, it is necessary-not everyone is "mentally sane" on planet earth) - "the taliban" (these hard-core-islamic-types) -- nothing but primitive-cave-dwelling, evil-minded 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mental patients running around LOOSE on planet earth....

...i certainly wouldn't get all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_choked-up._ IF.. one felt swo_o_oo_o_op......









I hope they get the *SPOKESMAN*.

.*a Taliban spokesman said*.

WHat a sick world.  And to HECK with the media for dubbing that term.  A Taliban *'spokesman'* claimed responsibility.

the spokesmans' _shell_ is human form...on the inside: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




so in answer to what you asked about what  should we do about these barbaric islamic beasts (if caught/captured)......

. . .even *them*.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




too extreme.  it's barbaric.  the ones scurrying about, those riding off on their motorcycles after gunning down 9 year-old girls reading books....hopefully there can be a more humane way (_if any_) to rid the planet of these evil beasts.  ...and no, there is no "talking to them."  they're too far gone, their minds are stuck in CENTURIES AGO.  beyond any help of any kind.  so what's left ?  unfortunately, deadly-force.






 i guess *you*





 don't find this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 'islamic-world' nearly as 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_disturbing_ as I do.........


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?
If you're a US citizen, maybe you should worry more about your native evil Christian beasts?


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 12, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?
> If you're a US citizen, maybe you should worry more about your native evil Christian beasts?




Silly comment     how many  US civilians are anywhere near taliban right now.   Taliban is not even an international terrorist islamo  nazi pig organization.    It is simply a muslim 
group ----generally pakistani ----intent on creating  a  comprehensively   SHARIAH shit 
hole in afghanistan ------and-----wherever it can spread more filth-----are the disgusting 
dogs acitve in Kashmir?


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 12, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?
> If you're a US citizen, maybe you should worry more about your native evil Christian beasts?


Geez, Georgie Boy is beginning to sound more and more like a radical Muslim living here in the U.S.  He never thinks about those evil Muslims who have murdered millions and millions of innocent people.  He doesn't even think about the innocent people the Taliban has murdered so far.  Maybe he thinks it is right for the Taliban to murder innocent people and, of course, do what they do to the females.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 12, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?
> ...


Americans are killing Afghan and Pakistani civilians on the opposite side of the planet for money and market share. It's silly to confuse the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet with any and all Muslim crimes against humanity.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 12, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?
> ...


How many millions and millions of innocent people have the Christian beasts murdered during your lifetime?
Why did you feel it was necessary to help murder innocent people...twice?
Care to confess any crimes against females you may have committed?
You have limited credibility when it comes to making moral judgments.
Maybe that's why you support Israel?


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 12, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


You're being silly, Ethel.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 12, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


How do we know that you never were able to get a good job because you had a jail record for crimes against women, Georgie Boy?  Speak about yourself not having any moral credibility, Georgie Boy, since you don't seem to have a problem with Muslim terrorists.  Maybe you think it was all honky dory for the Taliban to throw acid in young girls' faces, shoot some young girl just because she wants an education, and destroy many girl schools..  I am also beginning to wonder if Georgie Boy ran up to Canada to avoid the draft since he seems to have a very big problem with the U.S. military.  He probably, being the wimp he is, did not even want to put himself out joining the National Guard to help people in his own state during natural catastrophes.  It would have been too dangerous for him to hand bottled water to strangers after an earthquake.  No doubt in Georgie Boy's demented mind, there should be no U.S. military so his commie pals can take us over and they will give Georgie Boy the opportunity of his lifetime in having a wonderful job that he probably feels was denied to him in the past.  So tell us, Georgie Boy, since you have it against the Christians, are you a Muslim in the closet that you don't mention the millions and millions of people the Muslims have murdered in your lifetime?  I know Muslims aren't supposed to say anything bad against fellow Muslims, but there certainly has to be a limit to this. 
.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 13, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Maybe you think it was all honky dory for the Taliban to throw acid in young girls' faces, shoot some young girl just because she wants an education, and destroy many girl schools..  .


If the Taliban are so bad, why are we paying them to guard our convoys to remote outposts in Afghanistan?



> _How the US army protects its trucks  by paying the Taliban
> 
> Insurance, security or extortion? The US is spending millions of dollars in Afghanistan to ensure its supply convoys get through  and it's the Taliban who profit_


So while your sitting there making these fuckers out to be evil pricks (which they probably are), we're paying them for security services rendered.



> _Report: U.S. Bribes to Protect Convoys Are Funding Taliban Insurgents
> 
> *The United States military is helping fund both sides of the war in Afghanistan*, knowingly financing a mafia-like collection of warlords and *some of the very insurgents American troops are battling*, according to Afghan and American officials and a new Congressional study released today.
> 
> The military has turned to private trucking companies to transport the vast majority of materiel it needs to fight the war -- everything from bullets to Gatorade, gas to sandbags -- and in turn, *the companies are using American money to pay, among others, the Taliban to try to guarantee the trucks' safe passage, the reports charge*._


I don't understand how someone can be both, an enemy and an ally, at the same time?

But what is really interesting, is the difference between you trashing the shit out of these people at every turn, then looking the other way and saying nothing about shit like this going down.  Why is that?  One would think you'd be outraged at us providing comfort and aid to the enemy via joint business ventures?


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 13, 2013)

crotchboy    you are a joke------paying the pigs and dogs is the way to go in
shariah cesspits .     there is no other way      it is a "cultue of  BAKSHEEEESH"


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 13, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> crotchboy    you are a joke------paying the pigs and dogs is the way to go in
> shariah cesspits .     there is no other way      it is a "cultue of  BAKSHEEEESH"


We can guard a base in a "shariah cesspit", but we can't guard a convoy to that base?

As usual, you make no sense whatsoever.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 13, 2013)

US History spans two hundred years.
Islam spans seven times that number.
Give US time.

How many Indians did the USA murder in its two hundred year history.
Millions and millions??
Why is it you only obsess about Muslim crimes in the Israel-Palestine forum?
Is the pay better?


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> US History spans two hundred years.
> Islam spans seven times that number.
> Give US time.
> 
> ...




there were not  MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of   American indians in North america 
to murder-----the real murder fest in the USA   was a manifestation of  
the  IMPERIALISM OF THE SECOND REICH_---- the same organization 
that   organized the  INQUISITION.     It was brought early to the americas 
by the SPANISH  explorers  under the aegis   of     WHORE ISABELLA OF SPAIN  ---
the same bitch who expelled the jews from spain in  1492-----Learn some history---
her  pimp   CORTEZ    organized a  genocide 

The american Indians had  "HUNTER GATHERER"  societies----such societies 
need LOTS and LOTS of land to  support relatively tiny populations----the 
societies of south america were far LARGER in population because they had 
developed an AGRARIAN life style------learn some history

you are right----there is no question that the   REICHS   are just as guilty of 
genocide as are the  CALIPHATES       SO?     Christians have repudiated 
the REICHS       muslims still claim that the  CALIPHATE IS A UTOPIA


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 13, 2013)

"Estimating the number of Native Americans living in what is today the United States of America before the arrival of the European explorers and settlers has been the subject of much debate. 

"While it is difficult to determine exactly how many Natives lived in North America before Columbus,[47] estimates range from a low of 2.1 million (Ubelaker 1976) to 7 million people (Russell Thornton) to a high of 18 million (Dobyns 1983).[48] 

"A low estimate of around 1 million was first posited by the anthropologist James Mooney in the 1890s, by calculating population density of each culture area based on its carrying capacity. 

"In 1965, the American anthropologist Henry Dobyns published studies estimating the original population to have been 10 to 12 million. By 1983, he increased his estimates to 18 million.[49]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States#History

Your carrying capacity seems a little on the light side.
Why do you need Isabella to excuse modern apartheid like that displayed in Israel?
Lack of imagination??


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "Estimating the number of Native Americans living in what is today the United States of America before the arrival of the European explorers and settlers has been the subject of much debate.
> 
> "While it is difficult to determine exactly how many Natives lived in North America before Columbus,[47] estimates range from a low of 2.1 million (Ubelaker 1976) to 7 million people (Russell Thornton) to a high of 18 million (Dobyns 1983).[48]
> 
> ...





North america is ---continental  USA and Canada  (alaska included)     Based on 
the style of living of the  people of the continent---I do  believe that the population 
could have easily come close to   12 million ...     What point were you trying to make?
       I mentioned  Isabella because the  GENOCIDE of Indians in the USA  was 
       based on the same rules that generated the INQUISITION of which she 
       was a fan and a perpetuator        There is no apartheid in israel.     
       There was apartheid in the USA ----based on the slavery issue--many 
       of the parameters of which were mediated by the SAME  engine 
       that  fueled   shariah laws regarding dhimmia and slavery  and the 
       Inquisition  (that Isabella favored and which fueled  CORTEZ and 
       his genocide in Mexico)       Gee you are confused

       Did you know that in accordance with   Justinian law---non christian 
       children could be confiscated  -----just as non muslim children can be 
       confiscated in shariah law ------the genocide of indians included 
       the confiscation of  Indian children<<< that is justinian law/

       try to make a point----such laws do not exist in Israel---in fact they 
       ORIGINATE IN ROME---codified  in the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE---
       and shipped thruout europe along with  christianity and to 
       North america along with christianity     and   THRUST   into  
       islamic law-----by whatever people authored the  koran


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "Estimating the number of Native Americans living in what is today the United States of America before the arrival of the European explorers and settlers has been the subject of much debate.
> 
> "While it is difficult to determine exactly how many Natives lived in North America before Columbus,[47] estimates range from a low of 2.1 million (Ubelaker 1976) to 7 million people (Russell Thornton) to a high of 18 million (Dobyns 1983).[48]
> 
> ...


The subject of Indian population was bashed about a few months ago.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 13, 2013)

And?

BTW, why do you need Isabella to excuse apartheid in Israel?
Does it make you feel better about supporting "creeping annexation" in Palestine?


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> And?
> 
> BTW, why do you need Isabella to excuse apartheid in Israel?
> Does it make you feel better about supporting "creeping annexation" in Palestine?



Georgie---there is no apartheid in Israel----Apartheid  in  the USA  is a remnant of the 
 ISLAMO NAZI SYSTEM -----
 Its roots are in

  1)    the   MILLENIA OLD ARABIAN SLAVE TRADE PROGRAM   which 
  designated   subsaharan     "ABED"-----and supplied the human commodity 
  to most of the OLD WORLD    from the Iberian penninsula all the 
  way THRU   Persia -----and then to the  "NEW WORLD"   ---still designating 
  the human labor commodity  ABED on the basis of skin color

 2)    The legal system adopted by  the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE ---to wit 
 Justiinian code      and   the  SHARIAH SYSTEM  highly influenced 
 by the elements of the  Justinian code  which abridged all rights of all 
 "OTHERS"     to wit the  DHIMMIA elements of shariah and the elements 
  used in shariah shit holes even today to determine  "LEGAL RELIGIONS" 
  vs----not legal   

    the result of both the JUSTINIAN CODE and SHARIA have been genocides 
  in the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS----in africa, europe, asia   and north and 
  south america        so far  Antarctica has been spared.    The good news 
  is that   christians  of today----unlike Isabella of the past who relished 
  the Inquisition-----have repudiated the JUSTINIIAN CODE 

  Muslims still try to cling to the idea that SHARIAH SHIT IS  "holy"


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 13, 2013)

As usual, when it is stated that we are paying the Taliban for security services in Afghanistan, all we get from the right side of the aisle, is crickets.

We get the same reaction when it is said we are SUPPORTING AND FUNDING al Qaeda in Syria.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> And?
> 
> BTW, why do you need Isabella to excuse apartheid in Israel?
> Does it make you feel better about supporting "creeping annexation" in Palestine?


Let me once again post what Rev. Heddings has said.  He happens to live in Israel and fought apartheid as a young man in South Africa so he should know more than you do about apartheid, Georgie Boy.  Meanwhile, of course, Georgie Boy, has no problem with the actual apartheid being practiced in Muslim countries.  As long as his friends, the Muslims, do it, it is quite OK with him.  And not only apartheid in Muslim countries, but the murder of people just because of their religious beliefs.

The Myth of Israeli Apartheid | ICEJ Canada


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

loinboy said:


> As usual, when it is stated that we are paying the Taliban for security services in Afghanistan, all we get from the right side of the aisle, is crickets.
> 
> We get the same reaction when it is said we are SUPPORTING AND FUNDING al Qaeda in Syria.


Maybe Fern's Bar has your daily newspapers.

America's go-to man in Afghanistan's Oruzgan province - latimes.com


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 13, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Maybe Fern's Bar has your daily newspapers.


Doubt it!

Convicts don't read newspapers unless they see their picture on the front page.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe Fern's Bar has your daily newspapers.
> ...


Are you really trying to tell us that all the dock workers down at Fern's Bar are convicts?  Maybe you really mean the bar that you are a regular at.  Since you aren't a customer at Fern's Bar, I doubt you know who is who in there.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 13, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > And?
> ...


Sure thing, rosie.
Just like there's no Zionism in Israel:

"Palestinian families forced to leave the village of Faluja in 1948. 
The village was ethnically cleansed by Jewish forces. 
On its looted lands, Israeli settlers founded Qiryat Gat in 1954. 13 (UN photo)

"*Ethnic Cleansing: NOUN: The systematic elimination of an ethnic group* or groups from a region or society, as by deportation, forced emigration or genocide. 19

"Apartheid: NOUN: 1. An official policy of racial segregation involving political, legal and economic discrimination. 2. A policy or practice of separating or segregating of groups. 3. The condition of being separated or segregated from others. 1

Zionism: NOUN is the international Jewish political movement that advocated for and supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine. The movement was a response by European Jews to Anti-Semitism in Europe."

itISapartheid.org

Why do you cling to the code of Muslim crimes negate Jewish crimes?
Is that the best argument you can muster?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 13, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > And?
> ...


What did Mandela have to say about Israeli apartheid?
I'll let you research that one, Hossie.

"The prevailing attitude of all U.S. administrations was drafted by Henry Morgenthau, and was later updated by Kenneth Waltz. One line guided all of them - Dennis Ross, Martin Indyk, George Mitchell - essentially, that *any possible settlement must match the positions of the stronger party*.

"This is how the Americans abandoned the refugee issue, and this is why they abandoned the opposition to settlements. Netanyahu is no genius. He is simply not interested in saying good-bye to the occupation. That is all. After all, he came to power because of this. To complain about him is to complain about November rain.

"The Israeli public's choice is a different matter. The spokesmen of the dovish camp tell us horror stories about a future binational state. But the binational state is already here. *It has a rigid apartheid legal system*, as the High Court of Justice fades away."

As goes the legal system...

Israel's apartheid is worse than South Africa's - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

I would say this item is a grave threat:


Iran has crisis meeting over WND&#8217;s nuke story


----------



## BOBO (Jan 13, 2013)

...never will be either.  As long as there remains 2 or more people in close proximity to one another their will be arguments & war... it's part of being "natural" human.  As far as nukes go,  their just another weapon in the arsenal of mankind's endless war upon each other.  Folks are aggressive by nature... get used to it.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Leave it to Georgie Boy to post something from a Leftist newspapers whose writers so many times appear to wish the destruction of Israel.  I much rather believe the Reverend who fought apartheid in South Africa than anything Haaretz has to say.  He saw what real apartheid is, not those writing for Haaretz.  Meanwhile, Georgie Boy, doesn't want to believe the Arab journalists who say that the Arabs have it better in Israel than the other Arab countries.  It is almost against Georgie Boy's religion to hear anyone say anything good about israel even if it is said by Arabs themselves.   Since you brought up Mandela, did you notice what the Reverend said he would say to Desmond Tutu if Tutu were in front of him?  Get back to us, Georgie Boy, about apartheid when you can tell us how wonderful the Arab world is to the people living in their countries.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 13, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> I would say this item is a grave threat:
> 
> 
> Iran has crisis meeting over WNDs nuke story


Innuendo's (what you're doing here) are not threats.

In addition, your source claims this was the 2nd time they've been caught with a secret site.  This is not true.  I don't know how this one was discovered, but the first one was found out when the Iranian's themselves, disclosed the location of the site to the IAEA, as required, per their agreement with the UN.

A "threat" would be a smoking gun.  This falls far short of that.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 13, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Are you really trying to tell us that all the dock workers down at Fern's Bar are convicts?  Maybe you really mean the bar that you are a regular at.  Since you aren't a customer at Fern's Bar, I doubt you know who is who in there.


I've been to Fern's enough times to know it's mostly a bar for convicts out on loan to the public.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I would say this item is a grave threat:
> ...


We'll probably get a chance to see what one or two MOPS will do.


Donley: New bunker-busting bomb ready to use - Air Force News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Air Force Times


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 13, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> We'll probably get a chance to see what one or two MOPS will do.
> 
> 
> Donley: New bunker-busting bomb ready to use - Air Force News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Air Force Times


I see you insist on making irresponsible statements?

Why post an article about dropping one of these on an Iranian bunker, when it has not been proven the Iranian's have done anything wrong?  Are you doing this to appease Israel?

As far as Syria, the Russian's are guarding their chemical warehouses.  Do you have any idea what would happen if we dropped one of these on the Russian's?


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 13, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > We'll probably get a chance to see what one or two MOPS will do.
> ...


There won't be one bomb dropped unless Iran puts a rocket on a launch vehicle.
No one is going to bomb a chemical weapons storage site.


----------



## Billo_Really (Jan 14, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> There won't be one bomb dropped unless Iran puts a rocket on a launch vehicle.
> No one is going to bomb a chemical weapons storage site.


That's better.  A lot better!


----------



## ima (Jan 14, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Oh great! Another war we can't win that's none of our business that'll get a ton of our brave soldiers killed for nothing. We'll never learn.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 14, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Can you link to a single Haaretz writer calling for Israel's destruction?

There exists a rigid apartheid legal system in Greater Israel.
Israeli Arab gets arrested for throwing rocks and is tried in civil courts for assault.
Palestinian Arab gets arrested for the same offense and is tried by military courts for terrorism.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 14, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


You can read between the lines of what these Leftist writers at Haaretz are saying?  It appears that they wouldn't have any problem if their fellow Israelis laid down and let the Arabs roll right over them to take over the country.  By the way, I thought the subject was about apartheid in Israel so how come you are now throwing in Palestinians outside of Israel and in the territories.  I wonder what the LAPD and the courts would do with Georgie Boy if he took it in his head to start throwing rocks at some innocent Jews coming out of a synagogue on Wilshire Blvd.,  What do you think your sentence would be, Georgie, for this hate crime?  As an aside, I would love to see Georgie Boy reside in some Muslim country for a length of time so that he could actually experience what apartheid is really like when it comes to non Muslims.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Another aside: No one is denying the intolerance of some Muslims, especially rich, elite Muslims whose rule often depends on USAID. The fact that you can point to much worse human rights violations committed by Muslims in Sudan, for example, doesn't mitigate Jewish crimes in the Occupied Territories, where, by the way, all Arabs live under Jewish (military) laws. If I were convicted of a Hate Crime in LA, by contrast, I would appear in civilian courts and be entitled to all due process. Finally, those lefties at Haaretz might prefer living in a democratic state instead of a Jewish state, yet I'm pretty sure they would not endorse laying down before Hamas to accomplish that task; why would you think they would?


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 15, 2013)

Georgie    arabs do not live under  "jewish laws"   in the territories    You 
    are very confused.    You are thinking of shariah     Arabs can dress as 
    they wish and even pray in public in   the territories     and they can eat 
    PUBLICALLY  on Yom Kippur      There are no specific laws for non jews 
    in jewish law  ------they can even SING  publically      and if they hand a 
   koran to a jew-----they will not be executed


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2013)

Whose laws do Arabs in the Occupied Territories live under?


----------



## ima (Jan 15, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Whose laws do Arabs in the Occupied Territories live under?



You mean like in the US? That would be the white man's laws.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2013)

ima said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Whose laws do Arabs in the Occupied Territories live under?
> ...


*And what kind of payback might the "white eyes" expect?*

"The human species, led by white Europeans and Euro-Americans, has been on a 500-year-long planetwide rampage of conquering, plundering, looting, exploiting and polluting the Earth&#8212;as well as killing the indigenous communities that stood in the way. 

"But the game is up. 

"The technical and scientific forces that created a life of unparalleled luxury&#8212;as well as unrivaled military and economic power&#8212;for the industrial elites are the forces that now doom us."

Chris Hedges: The Myth of Human Progress - Chris Hedges' Columns - Truthdig


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 15, 2013)

The force you describe has its root in   ROME----but nope---
it is not going to drop dead and be replaced ---it will simply 
get DILUTED


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> The force you describe has its root in   ROME----but nope---
> it is not going to drop dead and be replaced ---it will simply
> get DILUTED


*Can you name the force?*

"If we fail in this great experiment, this experiment of apes becoming intelligent enough to take charge of their own destiny, nature will shrug and say it was fun for a while to let the apes run the laboratory, but in the end it was a bad idea..."

Chris Hedges: The Myth of Human Progress - Chris Hedges' Columns - Truthdig


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## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2013)

georgephillip, Hossfly, _et al,_

I'm kind-a-intrigued by the alternative perspective. 



georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

OK, I'm opening my mind.  Granted I don't agree with the Administration of the Occupied Territories, and have often thought that there are alternative ways of doing the same thing.  But I have to ask, other than sensationalize and propaganda effects, why some consistently invoke the "apartheid" label on nearly all things security and police related.

I mean, I know how to begin the process of fixing the Administration of the Occupied Territories (not that Israel would do it); but, I see I don't quite understand this labeling.

How are you applying the concepts of "Apartheid" to the "OTs?"

Most Respectfully,
R


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## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip, Hossfly, _et al,_
> 
> I'm kind-a-intrigued by the alternative perspective.
> 
> ...


*Here's where I'm starting, Rocco:*

"The comparison between Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of non-whites during its apartheid era is controversial.[1] 

"The analogy has been used by United Nations investigators, human rights groups and critics of Israeli policy, some of which have also accused Israel of committing the crime of apartheid.

" Critics of Israeli policy say that 'a system of control' in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, *including Jewish-only settlements, separate roads for Israeli and Palestinian citizens, military checkpoints, discriminatory marriage law, the West Bank barrier, use of Palestinians as cheap labour, Palestinian West Bank enclaves, inequities in infrastructure, legal rights, and access to land and resources* between Palestinians and Israeli residents in the Israeli-occupied territories resembles some aspects of the South African apartheid regime, and that elements of Israel's occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, which are contrary to international law."

Israel and the apartheid analogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know anyone can edit Wiki; however, many Jews much smarter than I am have also figured that one out. Your patience and tact have opened my eyes too. It's clear that there are "believers" on both sides that will never tolerate the "other" on "their" land. 

If you have a clue about where a solution starts, I'm all ears.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 15, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> If you have a clue about where a solution starts, I'm all ears.


The solution is for Israel to comply with international law, respect human rights, end the occupation, end the Gaza siege, dismantle the over 500 checkpoints and roadblocks in the West Bank, vacate the illegal settlements and stop violating Palestinian air space.

That's the solution!


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## Hossfly (Jan 15, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
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You can say all you want to, Georgie Boy, about the Lefties wanting democracy.  I, on the other hand, believe that they would have no problem rolling over for the Arabs to rule over them.  It appears that some folks wouldn't mind being Dhimmis.  Meanwhile, if you threw rocks at the people leaving a synagogue on Wilshire Blvd., I doubt if your punishment would just be a slap on the wrist.  However, I don't suggest you try this.  Just sit quietly in front of your computer running around to different forums.  As far as you having a big problem with Israel being called a Jewish state, I wonder if you also have a problem with the Muslims having so many countries called a Muslim state.  If you do, I hope you are complaining about this on one of the other forums you are on.


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## georgephillip (Jan 15, 2013)

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > If you have a clue about where a solution starts, I'm all ears.
> ...


What happens to the half-a-million "Jews" currently living on the West Bank?
(My neighborhood's full of Salvadoreans)


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## Hossfly (Jan 15, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


No problem, Georgie Boy.  The El Salvadorans can stay in your neighborhood so that you can still go to their grocery stores.  America is a big place, and I am sure there is room for everyone here if push comes to shove.  Of course, we can always stop immigration from Muslim countries and let more Hispanics in since there are already churches for them to attend and many of their relatives are here already.  How about some Guatemalans moving into your neighborhood to keep the El Salvadorans company.  Then again you might prefer some Mexicans because they make the best burritos.  However, there is one big problem with all of this.  The Muslims still do not want to see the Jews governing even a tiny bit of real estate in the Middle East, and so there is an impasse to any peace process.  Maybe you can pop over there and convince them to think otherwise.  While there, you can mention that they really should put Israel on their maps because Israel does exist.


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## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Let me say, at the outset, that I have no reasonable expectation that Israel would adopt such a solution.



georgephillip said:


> If you have a clue about where a solution starts, I'm all ears.


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis need to establish a set of Palestinian Organizations; some might already exist, and just need to be formalized with greater powers and influence.  Others may need to be star-up organizations.  These organizations will need to be fully funded and equipped with all the tools.  These organization will need the greatest latitude in its authority.  Everyone (Palestinian, Israeli, transients) will fall under the same administration and legal system.

Palestinian Constabulary Units:

Palestinian Territorial Police (Limited Oversight and with a Palestinian /Israeli Liaison Officer)

Urban Police
Highway Patrol
Border Operations
Police Academy & Training

Palestinian Investigations Unit

General Investigations
Major Crimes
Special Activities

Corrections Facilities Management
The Occupation Commander needs to let these units take the lead on all Police Matters in the Occupied Territories.​
Palestinian Court System:

Legislative Law Development & Review
Mayors Court for non-Felonies
Palestinian Court of Claims
Civil Court for general tort and contract law, property disputes.
Territorial Court for Major Crimes.
Court of Review and Appeals They will codify Territorial Law.

Palestinian Parliament:  A territorial representative body having general legislative powers within the territory.  Able to vote on and enact laws and collect taxes.

Transitional (Intrim basis)
Permanent (Periodically elected by popular vote.)

Territorial Administration Agency:

Emergency Services
Financial Services
Infrastructure Maintenance
Civil Service
Contract Management
Planning Agency

Each of these agencies will initially be partnered by a Occupation Subject Matter Expert OSME) to provide advise and assistance until such time as the agencies are capable of independent operation.  There after, there will be a Occupation Liaison Officer to expedite entanglements and other requests.

UN Observer Team.  The UN Observer Team will monitor hostile anti-government activity.  At the cessation of Hostilities between the belligerents (Palestinian Cause versus Israeli Occupation), the UN Team will start the one-year clock, the Israelis will begin demilitarization of the Occupation Territory, the Palestinian Chief Judge and Parliament will begin the process of coordinating with key leders for the erection of a Central Government.  The UN Team will reset the clock if the outbreak of hostilities is caused by the Palestinian; restarting the one-year clock on the resumption of peace.  It will not reset the clock is if the peace is broken by the Israeli.

A coordinated effort between the Israeli Government, the Palestinian Parliament, and the City of Jerusalem with plan and implement a process by which the city will become and independent City-State. 

This is my thumbnail sketch of the initial process.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## irosie91 (Jan 16, 2013)

Mr R----Israel would not have a snow-balls chance in hell----in trying to lead 
the arabs to your plan  ------"ISRAEL SHOULD ESTABLISH........"     You're 
joking---right?


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## toastman (Jan 16, 2013)

Rocco there no chance of that ever happening. We're talking about a people who don't even recognize Israel as a country or a Jewish Nation.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 16, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> What happens to the half-a-million "Jews" currently living on the West Bank?
> (My neighborhood's full of Salvadoreans)


They can apply for visa's to the Palestinian Authority, just like anyone else in a foreign country.  

As long as the Israeli government doesn't play a role, it's perfectly legal.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 16, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> The Israelis need to establish a set of Palestinian Organizations;


The Israeli's have no jurisdiction with any Palestinian Organization.  What they need to do, is stop interfering and let the Pals determine for themselves how they want to govern.  

Citizens of every country have the right to self-determination and the Pals are no different.


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## toastman (Jan 16, 2013)

loinboy said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > What happens to the half-a-million "Jews" currently living on the West Bank?
> ...



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


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## Billo_Really (Jan 16, 2013)

toastman said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


And that is why Israel is considered a pariah state.


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## ima (Jan 16, 2013)

*The Gravest Threat to World Peace*?

Religion. By far.


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## Hossfly (Jan 16, 2013)

loinboy said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The Israelis need to establish a set of Palestinian Organizations;
> ...


Letting the Palis to have self determination would be letting them determine what kind of weapons they could smuggle into Gaza.


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## georgephillip (Jan 16, 2013)

Why would Palestinian aggression result in the UN re-starting the one-year clock while Israeli (settler) attacks would not? How would you feel about the UN instigating a no-fly zone over Gaza and the West Bank?


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## ima (Jan 16, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



You have a brain the size of a housefly, if the Pals had self-determination, they wouldn't need to "smuggle" anything, they could just buy their weapons on the open market, just like Israel does.


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## toastman (Jan 16, 2013)

You are one stupid fuck ima. 

Palestinians should never have weapons. They don't know what to do with them except launch missiles indiscriminately at Israel while yelling DEATH TO ISRAEL.


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## irosie91 (Jan 16, 2013)

The gravest  threat to the world today is   GRAVY      I was so delighted 
   when I learned how to  SUCESSFULY   --deglaze ---and   make roux--- 
   and use cream  to  THICKEN   gravy      completely free of lump and 
   curdle       and toss in WINE     and ------even cheese   and BUTTER  
   to make the stuff SHINE         My mother never taught me----she 
   was quick in the tiny kithchen and  ----impatient.     JULIA CHILD 
   TAUGHT ME!!!!!!!     I did learn how to thicken gravy and soup with 
    an egg from my mom----THE TEMPERING PROCESS---

         then later on in life I learned about    FATS AND CHOLESTEROL
                gravy has been killing people for MILLENIA


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## Billo_Really (Jan 16, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Letting the Palis to have self determination would be letting them determine what kind of weapons they could smuggle into Gaza.


And there lies  the root of the problem, your intention to deny the Palestinian's their inherent right to self-determination.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 16, 2013)

toastman said:


> You are one stupid fuck ima.
> 
> Palestinians should never have weapons. They don't know what to do with them except launch missiles indiscriminately at Israel while yelling DEATH TO ISRAEL.


This is another root of the problem, the notion that the Palestinian's do not have the right to defend themselves.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 16, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> The gravest  threat to the world today is   GRAVY      I was so delighted
> when I learned how to  SUCESSFULY   --deglaze ---and   make roux---
> and use cream  to  THICKEN   gravy      completely free of lump and
> curdle       and toss in WINE     and ------even cheese   and BUTTER
> ...


I don't know how to make gravy!

I can make quesadilla's.


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## 50_RiaL (Jan 16, 2013)

Easy.  Hands down, the Islamist menace & their useful idiots in the West (not mentionin' any names)


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## irosie91 (Jan 16, 2013)

loinboy said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > The gravest  threat to the world today is   GRAVY      I was so delighted
> ...



I love quesadillas     but I wonder if the mexicans had CHEESE---
before   CORTEZ   showed up and stole the gold        maybe he 
taught them to make spanish cheese-----as payment for the gold---
not to mention the life of  Montezuma.     I like  cheese and avocados---
Thus  MONTEZUMA  did not die in vain


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## georgephillip (Jan 16, 2013)

toastman said:


> You are one stupid fuck ima.
> 
> Palestinians should never have weapons. They don't know what to do with them except launch missiles indiscriminately at Israel while yelling DEATH TO ISRAEL.


So tell the Jews to stop stealing Palestinian land and water; you might also suggest the hired Jewish killers stop using Palestinian children for target practice.


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## irosie91 (Jan 16, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > You are one stupid fuck ima.
> ...



Anyone who drinks water in SPAIN is stealing water from  THE MUSLIMS    which is 
why muslims have a right to slit the throats of the children of-----non muslims---or 
the muslims of the  ---other sect   ---who are not  REALLY THE RIGHT KIND of muslims---
I understand your POV    "georgie"


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## ima (Jan 16, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


iro, please tell us you never reproduced.


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## Hossfly (Jan 16, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> The gravest  threat to the world today is   GRAVY      I was so delighted
> when I learned how to  SUCESSFULY   --deglaze ---and   make roux---
> and use cream  to  THICKEN   gravy      completely free of lump and
> curdle       and toss in WINE     and ------even cheese   and BUTTER
> ...


No bout adoubt it, ear wax is the gravest threat to world peace, hear.


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## irosie91 (Jan 16, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > The gravest  threat to the world today is   GRAVY      I was so delighted
> ...




Ear Wax is ---lipids-----like butter-----but it is useless in gravy.   In general   excess ear wax---is the result of IRRITATION----ie inflammation caused either by infection or ----digging 
around in there.     Be very modest in your finger thrusting and avoid Q-tips.   I see no 
reason to thrust the corner of a cloth into the AUDITORY CANAL  of a child.   I am not 
sure if ------my reasoning is correct-----but my mom seemed intent on  SCRUBBING 
that tiny space in the heads of her children-----and I had lots of earaches as a child---
in fact even a few in adulthood.-----but my kid never had one        LEAVE THOSE TINY 
LITTLE HOLES ALONE----or consult your pediatrician whenever the URGE to scrape 
them out becomes  IRRESISTABLE.    I will admit----she was also a far more meticulous 
broom user than am I------no speck of dust had a chance


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## Hossfly (Jan 16, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


Why, Ima, it is quite obvious that you have the tiny brain of a bored cockroach househusband/housewife who crawls out of the woodwork because there is nothing going on with the other cockroaches in the Nazi bund in your small town.  We all can see that you would love to see the Palestinians get weapons so that they will be able to satisfy your fondest wish, and that is for Israel to be destroyed, just like all the good Nazis do.  Now go back into the woodwork for a while where you belong and finish up the dusting in there..


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## ima (Jan 17, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Herr housefly, change the fucking record you fat fuck. And then tell us which sovereign nation aside from them (if and when...) isn't allowed to purchase weapons for their military/homeland defense/police...? Any?


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## georgephillip (Jan 17, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


I'm clear on your motives as well:

"Since its construction, the resulting diversion of water from the Jordan River has been a source of tension with Syria and Jordan.[7] 

"In 1964, Syria attempted construction of a Headwater Diversion Plan that would have blocked the flow of water into the Sea of Galilee, sharply reducing the capacity of the carrier.[8] 

"This project and Israel's subsequent physical attack on those diversion efforts in 1965 were factors which played into regional tensions culminating in the 1967 Six-Day War. 

"Israel captured the Golan Heights from Syria in the course of the war; the Heights contain some of the sources of the Sea of Galilee."

National Water Carrier of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## irosie91 (Jan 17, 2013)

yeah    so?      the 1967   war  happened because   Syria tried to illegally interrupt river flow into another country?         Doing so is illegal       I am intrigued that Syria decided to 
join   Nasser in his attack on Israel----knowing the risks    simply because Israel objected 
to its illegal manipulation of rivers      The Kineret is important     Yeshua aka Jesus---
walked on it


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## Hossfly (Jan 17, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


"Palestine" can't be trusted with weapons; they're irresponsible.


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## georgephillip (Jan 17, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> yeah    so?      the 1967   war  happened because   Syria tried to illegally interrupt river flow into another country?         Doing so is illegal       I am intrigued that Syria decided to
> join   Nasser in his attack on Israel----knowing the risks    simply because Israel objected
> to its illegal manipulation of rivers      The Kineret is important     Yeshua aka Jesus---
> walked on it


Which country attacked first in 1967?
Which country deliberately murdered 34 US servicemen on June 8, 1967?
Which country tripled its geography as a result of the Six Day War?


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## Hossfly (Jan 17, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > yeah    so?      the 1967   war  happened because   Syria tried to illegally interrupt river flow into another country?         Doing so is illegal       I am intrigued that Syria decided to
> ...


Do you know?


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## irosie91 (Jan 17, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > yeah    so?      the 1967   war  happened because   Syria tried to illegally interrupt river flow into another country?         Doing so is illegal       I am intrigued that Syria decided to
> ...



Nasser attacked with an act of war----the embargo of the straits of tiran----and 
his   heavy build up of  troops on the border that included   Russian military experts
in the field and his   STATEMENT that he was about to annhilate Israel-   In preparation for his attack-----the pig Nasser also threw UN peace keeping troops out of 
the sinai         ---Israel responded 
by knocking out a few  empty planes  on the tarmac in  Egypt----an act more 
of mild vandalism and less serious than throwing rocks at human beings  

June 9  1967   ---saw a military accident----one of many      There are lethal military accidents   in  the USA  military even during peace time every year      Ask me how I know.

the  mythological joke   THE UAR   lost the war it started ----in  1967     just as its  "god" 
--DER FUHRER lost his war in   1945.    the  silly UAR and the murderer of his own army--NASSER     miscalculated ------later on he dropped dead of a heart attack


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## RoccoR (Jan 17, 2013)

georgephillip, _et al,_

Yes, correct: the Israelis.



georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > yeah    so?      the 1967   war  happened because   Syria tried to illegally interrupt river flow into another country?         Doing so is illegal       I am intrigued that Syria decided to
> ...


*(REFERENCES)*


https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...s/vol49no1/html_files/arab_israeli_war_1.html
Israel?s attack on Egypt in June ?67 was not ?preemptive? | Foreign Policy Journal



			
				Israels attack on Egypt in June 67 was not preemptive said:
			
		

> Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center, which had received the report that Israel had launched its attack and that, contrary to Israels claims that Egypt had been the aggressor, Israel had fired first.  Ref #2



*(COMMENT)*

Having said that, it is only fair to explain that proximity of combat forces on borders speaks volumes.  In such conditions there are usually "tripwires" _(slang for and event that triggers an automatic series of responses)_.  I don't think we will every know what triggered what event.  

it is interesting to note that in addition to the UAR (Egypt's) had moved 100,000 troops to the border, which included 900+ Tanks, 1000+ APCs, and 1000+ Artillery pieces, both Syria and Jordan had  75,000 troops and 55,000 (respectively) to their borders with Israel.  I think it safe to say that they sure made it look like an attack was immanent. 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## ima (Jan 17, 2013)

Hey Roc, we know what (REFERENCES) and (COMMENT) are, you don't have to keep saying it. Jus' sayin'.


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## RoccoR (Jan 17, 2013)

ima,

Yes, I know.  It's not so much for you as it is for me.



ima said:


> Hey Roc, we know what (REFERENCES) and (COMMENT) are, you don't have to keep saying it. Jus' sayin'.


*(COMMENT)*

I have the mental deficiency in some respect.  I know it is annoying for some.  But it just the way I am.

Most Respectfully and with the Greatest of Apologies,
R


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## irosie91 (Jan 17, 2013)

For ever and ever and ever-----islamo nazis will insist that the statements not 
only  by nasser  but by arab UN diplomats for weeks threatening the 
ANNHILATION of  THE ZIONIST ENTITY----and the huge build up of 
armaments and tanks in the SINAI --with  RUSSIAN MILITARY EXPERTS 
in attendance  and the embargo of the straits of Tiran  ---were 
not acts of aggression------a vandalism of a few unpiloted 
planes in Egypt was the  INSTIGATION OF THE WAR 
of  1967-----who said islamo nazi pigs have no sense of humor?

   well----of course the incursion by Hezbollah and murder 
   of Israelis in  2006   was not an aggression either ---nor 
   were the tens of thousands of poison nail bomb on Haifa


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## Billo_Really (Jan 17, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> well----of course the incursion by Hezbollah and murder
> of Israelis in  2006   was not an aggression either ---nor
> were the tens of thousands of poison nail bomb on Haifa


The two captured Israeli's, were in Lebanon.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 17, 2013)

ima said:


> Herr housefly, change the fucking record you fat fuck. And then tell us which sovereign nation aside from them (if and when...) isn't allowed to purchase weapons for their military/homeland defense/police...? Any?


How dare you ask _"The Chosen", _a question like that!


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## georgephillip (Jan 17, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> ima,
> 
> Yes, I know.  It's not so much for you as it is for me.
> 
> ...


If you actually have any mental deficiencies they are not revealed in your arguments or prose.
Would you mind giving us a thumbnail sketch of your formal education, Rocco?
You and your links have definitely expanded my understanding of these problems.


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## Hossfly (Jan 17, 2013)

loinboy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Herr housefly, change the fucking record you fat fuck. And then tell us which sovereign nation aside from them (if and when...) isn't allowed to purchase weapons for their military/homeland defense/police...? Any?
> ...


So tell us, Loinboy, in the bar that you frequent, have you ever heard refined women talk like Frau Ima?  Maybe the transgenders do when they forget how they are supposed to act.  Perhaps his/her talk excites some of the readers such as you.  The amusing thing about all this is that you and Frau Ima don't really care about the Arabs at all.   They are just pawns for you so that you can diss those you stupidly call "the chosen people" when you don't even know what the term "chosen" actually means when it refers to the Jews.  I really would suggest that you find out so that you don't keep sounding like someone who frequents the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites where this "chosen" shtick is very popular.
By the way, I am not a Jew but it seems that everyone who sticks up for Israel and/or the Jews is a Jew in the demented mind of others.  Am I accusing you of being a Muslim because you are always dissing Israel?  A Dhimwit perhaps, but not a Muslim.  Now go order yourself another drink.


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## Billo_Really (Jan 17, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> So tell us, Loinboy, in the bar that you frequent, have you ever heard refined women talk like Frau Ima?  Maybe the transgenders do when they forget how they are supposed to act.  Perhaps his/her talk excites some of the readers such as you.  The amusing thing about all this is that you and Frau Ima don't really care about the Arabs at all.   They are just pawns for you so that you can diss those you stupidly call "the chosen people" when you don't even know what the term "chosen" actually means when it refers to the Jews.  I really would suggest that you find out so that you don't keep sounding like someone who frequents the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites where this "chosen" shtick is very popular.
> By the way, I am not a Jew but it seems that everyone who sticks up for Israel and/or the Jews is a Jew in the demented mind of others.  Am I accusing you of being a Muslim because you are always dissing Israel?  A Dhimwit perhaps, but not a Muslim.  Now go order yourself another drink.


Is this the bar you speak of?







Pretty cool, huh?  It's the place you can go, where YOU get to "choose".


I don't believe in this "Chosen" BS!  God does not choose; God does not pick sides.

BTW, if you're going to complain about being accused a Jew for sticking up for Israel, it's best not to do it after calling someone who criticizes Israel, an "NeoNazi/Islamofascist".


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## ima (Jan 18, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Housefly, are you in love with Israel because you're one of those mental case Christians who needs armageddon in the ME so that Jesus can come back and save your sorry fat lardbutt? Or did an arab steal your cookies or sumthin'?


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## Hossfly (Jan 18, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > So tell us, Loinboy, in the bar that you frequent, have you ever heard refined women talk like Frau Ima?  Maybe the transgenders do when they forget how they are supposed to act.  Perhaps his/her talk excites some of the readers such as you.  The amusing thing about all this is that you and Frau Ima don't really care about the Arabs at all.   They are just pawns for you so that you can diss those you stupidly call "the chosen people" when you don't even know what the term "chosen" actually means when it refers to the Jews.  I really would suggest that you find out so that you don't keep sounding like someone who frequents the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites where this "chosen" shtick is very popular.
> ...


Well it seems like you are a regular down at your own local bar.  Do the women down there talk like Frau Ima?  In fact we are all getting an education from him/her as to how the NeoNazis talk in his/her small town -- probably some dairy town in upstate New York where instead of Frau Ima saying moo moo to the cows, he/she comes on here and posts a bunch of nonsense with his/her usual vulgarity.  Isn't that strange that it is the NeoNazi/Islamofascist hate sites which make a big stink about the "chosen ones."  Do you really believe that an intelligent person believes that so many of those who bring up "chosen ones" even heard of this term before they started reading these hate sites?   I don't believe you have the vaguest idea what "chosen" means when it refers to the Jews.  Now tell the bartender to pour you another one.


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## Hossfly (Jan 18, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


I guess we can all see how busy Ima troll has been this morning.  This househusband/housewife must be very, very bored in his/her little town and probably wishes the Bund would meet more often for a social hour.  Did someone steal Frau Ima's pink panties that said Friday on them so she is trying to forget this by trolling with one post after another this morning?  He/she probably misses his/her boxer shorts.


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## georgephillip (Jan 18, 2013)

"Results of a new poll commissioned by the European Commission show that *Israel is believed by Europeans in 15 countries to be the greatest threat to world peace, greater than North Korea, Iran or Afghanistan.*

"While the European Commission will release the full results of the poll on Monday, the International Herald Tribune reported that the 7,500 people polled living in the European Union (500 in each of the 15 E.U. member states) were presented with a list of 15 countries and asked if these countries present a threat to world peace. 

"*Shockingly, Israel was rated first.*

"This poll is an indication that Europeans have bought into the vilification and demonization campaign directed against the State of Israel and her supporters by European leaders and media."

Or maybe the world is waking to Jewish atrocities in the same way it recognized those of Hitler, Stalin, and White South Africa?

European Poll: Israel Biggest Threat To World Peace | The Jewish Federations of North America


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## MHunterB (Jan 18, 2013)

Er, "Jewish" atrocities????

Trying to revive the blood libel, are you?  How very inclusive and egalitarian of you, Georgie!


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## skye (Jan 18, 2013)

Hollie said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


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## georgephillip (Jan 18, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> Er, "Jewish" atrocities????
> 
> Trying to revive the blood libel, are you?  How very inclusive and egalitarian of you, Georgie!


*"The 1948 Palestinian exodus*, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1603;&#1576;&#1577;*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1947&#8211;1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

Would that qualify as "atrocity" if the same number of Jews had "left, fled or were expelled from their homes..."?

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're becoming a tad parochial (not to mention predictable), Marg.


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## georgephillip (Jan 18, 2013)

skye said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


"Results of a new poll commissioned by the European Commission show that Israel is believed by Europeans in 15 countries to be the greatest threat to world peace, greater than North Korea, Iran or Afghanistan.

"While the European Commission will release the full results of the poll on Monday, the International Herald Tribune reported that the 7,500 people polled living in the European Union (500 in each of the 15 E.U. member states) were presented with a list of 15 countries and asked if these countries present a threat to world peace. 

*"Shockingly, Israel was rated first*."

*Are you shocked, Skye?*

European Poll: Israel Biggest Threat To World Peace | The Jewish Federations of North America


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

skye said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


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## skye (Jan 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


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## Hossfly (Jan 18, 2013)

skye said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...


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## MHunterB (Jan 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > Er, "Jewish" atrocities????
> ...



No, you're exhibiting bigotry by claiming the purported 'atrocities' as connected to Judaism.  Which was my point.

I'm surprised that you're unaware that in fact a *larger *number of Jews were expelled from their homes - with nothing, and their property confiscated - the total is about 950,000 people.  

Nobody else called that an 'atrocity', no.  In fact, they pretend to not know it was planned back in the '30's by an international cabal.


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## MHunterB (Jan 18, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


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## Billo_Really (Jan 18, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> I don't believe you have the vaguest idea what "chosen" means when it refers to the Jews.


I don't argue against someone's beliefs.

You are free to believe whatever you "choose".


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## Hossfly (Jan 18, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > MHunterB said:
> ...


Georgie Boy says you are predictable, Marg, but he is so predictable dragging out his beloved Wikipedia and of course telling us constantly about all those poor Arabs who had to leave because of the Jews.  Since this is a free country, everyone can believe what they want to believe, and Georgie Boy believes one thing and others believe another thing.
Palestinian 'Nakba' Depends on Your Perspective - Inside Israel - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com


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## Hossfly (Jan 18, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe you have the vaguest idea what "chosen" means when it refers to the Jews.
> ...


Wouldn't it be nice though to actually find out what "Chosen" meant instead of throwing it out like it was something derogatory?


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## Billo_Really (Jan 18, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Wouldn't it be nice though to actually find out what "Chosen" meant instead of throwing it out like it was something derogatory?


Wouldn't it be nice to stop jumping to conclusions about others and thinking things that aren't true?


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## Hossfly (Jan 18, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be nice though to actually find out what "Chosen" meant instead of throwing it out like it was something derogatory?
> ...


Wouldn't it be great if people would stop throwing around "Chosen" like it was something bad when you don't know what it really means?  Are you actually denying (with a straight face while you are typing) that this "Chosen" shtick by you and many of the other posters never was mentioned on this forum in a derogatory way?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 18, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> SherriMunnerlyn said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...


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## Billo_Really (Jan 18, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> Wouldn't it be great if people would stop throwing around "Chosen" like it was something bad when you don't know what it really means?  Are you actually denying (with a straight face while you are typing) that this "Chosen" shtick by you and many of the other posters never was mentioned on this forum in a derogatory way?


I don't speak for other posters, I only speak for myself.  And what I'm saying is, God doesn't "choose".  We are all equal in HIS eyes.

If you think that is derrogatory, so be it.  That is your "choice".


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## member (Jan 19, 2013)

*GEORGE PHILLIP:* *"I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?"*







 Probably not manyas we all know, theyre a peaceful bunch.


*"If you're a US citizen, maybe you should worry more about your native evil Christian beasts?*


No, I'm no _U.S. Citizen_





  I'm an illegal Mexican woman.

Even though it was illegal i snuck in,  It was an easy commute.  I jumped over the barbed wire fence --- _that nobody's watchin'_ ---  _si,_ I was undocumented, (*+* _had no idea_ if I had any communicable diseases).


I get a benefits card.....






....that _American tax payers pay for me_.

I buy all the food I want.  Cakes, cookies, potato chips, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 toilet paper, twizzlers, hot pockets, baby formula, diapers, eggs, prime rib, chicken salad, orange juice, butter, milk, bread, laundry detergent, jello pudding pops, (_and anything else I want muchacho_).

















I got no money.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Not only THAT, I get to have as many kids as I want.





I walk around _ALL DAY LONG_, pushing my baby carriage, surrounded by my five kids (... _and another one in the oven ---- and NO --- I dont work, no need to_).  Im always rushing off to here~_n_~ there (mostly shopping).  My kids' first language is Spanish (I only speak Spanish, and know about 2 or 3 words of English---I don't care to learn more english---so, Im using one of my many (free) electronic devices to translate to you).


Plus, all the kids I have, I dont have to pay a Dime





 to have them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*Its free*.  Free clothes, baby carriages, baby formula, Dr. check-ups.....(sorry to hear about all the hospitals around your country having 'financial' problems).  I hear you never used to have those problems until...."we" are seen everywhere jamming up your hospital waiting rooms.







 --- I'm still *not an american citizen*, pay no taxesand the best part, all the kids I have, they automatically become AMERICAN CITIZENS !!  cha_chac_ha.

I love 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 those people who work at the Social Services-Welfare office.   The even help me pay my rent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Also, _NOT me,_ but. . . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





. . .many, *MANY* of my other 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*illegal mexican sisters* *. . .*

*. . .* always are stealing the credits cards of legal, taxpaying, law-abiding u.s. citizens....






_Mi amigos_ use the stolen credit cards at many places ----> specifically to buy baby formula.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....

I cant express my gratitude 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I mean, *this is* called the Land of the Free you know ! FREE EVERYTHING !!!

_mucho grascias *gringos*_.

_*Its so easy to get all this free stuff.*_




Viva la Mexico !! and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_*grascias*_ to all those in the the U.S. Govt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for your _*'system*_.'

_Oh_, and, even though your economy is rocky, it doesn't EVER affect _me_ (_us_) at all.






*. . . *but that poor Hurricane Sandy couple, sorry to hear _the 'system'_ hasn't been there for them.  They had a beautiful home on the beach.  Lived there for 40 years.  They paid their ALLSTATE INSURANCE flood coverage _(*+* x-tra coverage_) _FAITHFULLY and on-time_ for FORTY straight years and ALLSTATE INSURANCE handled their claim like this:












 I'm sure glad my food-stamp card and welfare check is always on time.





Viva La *Am*exico !!


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## ima (Jan 19, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be great if people would stop throwing around "Chosen" like it was something bad when you don't know what it really means?  Are you actually denying (with a straight face while you are typing) that this "Chosen" shtick by you and many of the other posters never was mentioned on this forum in a derogatory way?
> ...



Of course he does, doesn't he send the ones he likes to heaven and the ones he doesn't like to hell. Plus, according to the traditional Jewish interpretation of the Bible, Israel's character as the chosen people is unconditional, as it says in Deuteronomy 14:2,
"For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."
The Torah also says,
"Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine" (Exodus 19:5).
God promises that he will never exchange his people with any other:
"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you." (Genesis 17:7).


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 19, 2013)

the concept of CHOOSE is a theme in the early books of the bible. 
It takes a brain to understand literature. 
----Ancient literature---is replete with INTERESTING THEMES 
that are beyond the ken of the shallow minded.   An example is 
the  Odyssey---which presents all sorts of themes beyond 
the shallow mind of Ima     A prominent theme is that 
of the relationship between men and  "the gods"    
The story is a kind of struggle 
between the "will of the 'god'-" who themselves fight 
with each other ---and man ---to wit 
Odysseus     
The early books of the bible ALSO deal with the confict--
--it includes a REFUTATION of the highly structured and RIGID  
society of mesopotamia  ----Ima would not understand which
 tends toward  FATE  and a kind of CASTE SYSTEM with 
NO CHOICE--very early on the ISSUE OF CHOICE  comes 
up in the bible account of the world   Adam and 
Eve actually CHOOSE their fate---as does  CAIN ---
then CAIN is given the opportunity to CHOOSE redemption---
-the story of JONAH is another story of CHOICE and struggle against 
the  "WILL OF GOD"     Abraham breaks with mesopotamian law and 
CHOOSES Isaac over  Ishmael  ----then Isaac's wife Rebecca  
breaks with the first born thing too and 
CHOOSES   Jacob over Esau and Esau  essentially CHOOSES to 
give up his own birthright.      Jacob CHOOSES   Rachel over 
Leah --even though Leah is the older of the sisters  
-----over and over again ----the bible is breaking with the OLD ORDER 
of strict custom---and emphasizing  CHOICE   -----that is how 
the word  CHOICE comes up as a translation of   B...CH...R       
the word "choice"   or  B...CH...R    in reference to jews 
as a nation cannot be understood by idiots like Ima


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## ima (Jan 19, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> the concept of CHOOSE is a theme in the early books of the bible.
> It takes a brain to understand literature.
> ----Ancient literature---is replete with INTERESTING THEMES
> that are beyond the ken of the shallow minded.   An example is
> ...



You're English reading skills have simply declined to the point where you can't understand simple phrases like:

"For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."
The Torah also says,
"Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine" (Exodus 19:5).
God promises that he will never exchange his people with any other:
"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you." (Genesis 17:7).


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 19, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be great if people would stop throwing around "Chosen" like it was something bad when you don't know what it really means?  Are you actually denying (with a straight face while you are typing) that this "Chosen" shtick by you and many of the other posters never was mentioned on this forum in a derogatory way?
> ...


You can say whatever you want to say, but there are many posters who have brought up :Chosen" like it was something derogatory, and that is something you cannot deny.  I really suggest that you research and see what it actually means.  Is that too much to ask?


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## georgephillip (Jan 19, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > MHunterB said:
> ...


*Any bankers in that international cartel, Marg?*

"The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to *Baron Rothschild* (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that *nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.*"

Send the bill to Rothschild (and Rockefeller).

BTW, for Arabs being evicted from homes their families had occupied for generations, it probably didn't matter if the Jew at the other end of the bayonet was religious or secular or greedy.

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 19, 2013)

ima said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > the concept of CHOOSE is a theme in the early books of the bible.
> ...



I am an Israelite, when can I move into a Palestinian's house?


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## irosie91 (Jan 19, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...




tinnie    you provided a  TRANSLATION     in order to understand the nuances 
of the  exerpt-----you need to have some concept of the language in which it 
was written.      You can move into any house which you purchase from the owner 
in JEWISH LAW       In islamic law you can move into any house  in which a non muslim 
dhimmi resides       In the conflict ongoing between muslims and jews over the past 
1400 years-----hundreds of thosuands of houses and buildings have parcels of land owned by jews have been confiscated by muslims  -----thus a more logical question on your part 
would be    "I AM WILLING TO BE A MUSLIM ----where do I pick up my kaffir slaves 
and when do I get one of their houses.      My husband was born in a shariah cesspit---
in my present city there are many NON JEWS from that who also were born in that 
shariah cesspit-----naturally he meets up with a few now and then-----One friendly character on learning about the city  in which my hubby was born ---politely mentioned 
  "MY SISTER LIVES IN ONE OF THE JEWISH HOUSES OVER THERE"      were you 
     trying to make a point?    do you imagine that hubby's family was PAID for the house?---
     In islamic law------there are actually WRITTEN PROVISIONS for the legal confiscation 
     or  forced use  of any house or property   "not quite owned---but purchased sorta"   
     of a jew.      More interesting----I was interested to know about daily life in such 
     societies and asked simple questions like -----"did muslims ever come into your house"?
     -----"yes"   "of course----for business like things---like have a pair of shoes made" 

     "Did jews ever go to the homes of muslims'?     <pause>     NEVER!!!!!!!!!

      "Did muslims in PALESTINE ever come to your house"       "yes"   "sometimes 
           to discuss the purchase of a calf "      "did your father ever go to the home of 
           an arab" ?        <pause>      NEVER !!!!!!   

             an interesting factoid----in islamic law in the shariah shit hole in which my 
             husband was born ---muslims had a RIGHT to demand entry and accomo-
             dation in the homes and even synagogues of jews-----but jews had no rights 
             at all in muslim homes and ----could not even walk upon the steps of a 
             mosque.    Your comments are no different  in character from those of 
             your fellows who claim that   Auschwitz was a summer vacation resort----
             May all those dear to you be affotded so fine an experience.   Why should 
             you and yours not enjoy that which my austrian cousins enjoyed as guests of 
             people like you

                         for the record---the above details are actually ON THE BOOKS 
                               of shariah law


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## georgephillip (Jan 19, 2013)

member said:


> *GEORGE PHILLIP:* *"I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?"*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*Find a few pictures of the Mexican-American War*:

"Many of the military leaders on both sides of the American Civil War had fought as junior officers in Mexico. 

"This list includes Ulysses S. Grant, George B. McClellan, Ambrose Burnside, Stonewall Jackson, James Longstreet, George Meade, Robert E. Lee, and the future Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

"President Ulysses S. Grant, who as a young army lieutenant had served in Mexico under General Taylor, recalled in his Memoirs, published in 1885, that:

"Generally, the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation was consummated or not; but not so all of them. 

"For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, *as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation.* It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory.[71]

"Grant also expressed the view that the war against Mexico had brought punishment on the United States in the form of the American Civil War:

"The Southern rebellion was largely the outgrowth of the Mexican war. Nations, like individuals, are punished for their transgressions. We got our punishment in the most sanguinary and expensive war of modern times.[72]"

Mexican?American War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MHunterB (Jan 19, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't it be nice though to actually find out what "Chosen" meant instead of throwing it out like it was something derogatory?
> ...



Yes - why don't you?


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## MHunterB (Jan 19, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



CABAL, not 'cartel' - and of course it's the Arab League of which I speak.  During the 'rebellion' of the '20's -'30's, they plotted to evict their Jewish citizens and steal everything they had.  

It's just not honest to look at only one part of the picture, so the "pro-Palestinian" posters claim.  By refusing to look at 'the other side' except to snort 'Propaganda!' - those purportedly 'Pro-Palestinian' posters are looking more & more like 'ant-Jewish' posters.


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## Hossfly (Jan 19, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


So true, Marg.  A person would have to be comatose not to realize that there are posters who throw around their "Chosen" bit like it was a derogatory term for the Jews.  If a Muslim were posting here and saying like was said on other forums that Islam is for the entire world, those spouting off about "Chosen" would be very, very quiet and not say a thing.


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## Hossfly (Jan 19, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> > *GEORGE PHILLIP:* *"I'm guessing you don't know how many US civilians the Taliban has killed since 2001?"*
> ...


Hola, amigos!!!  Looks like Jorge is disappointed that he was born so late that he wasn't able to join Pancho Villa and get a piece of the action.  Maybe Jorge can join up with the radical group which wants the entire Southwest returned to Mexico.  Then perhaps they will give Jorge a free villa in Phoenix, Arizona.  By the way, what would Jorge do if he didn't have Wikipedia.  He might have to actually look at some encyclopedias.


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## georgephillip (Jan 19, 2013)

Did taxpayers subsidize any Central American stays for you?


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## georgephillip (Jan 19, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > MHunterB said:
> ...


"Following adoption of the Alexandria Protocol in 1944, the Arab League was founded on 22 March 1945. It aimed to be a regional organisation of Arab states with a focus to developing the economy, resolving disputes, and coordinating political aims.[5] Other countries joined the league at later dates.[6] Each country was given one vote in the council. 

"The first major action was the joint intervention, allegedly on behalf of the majority Arab population that was being uprooted as the State of Israel emerged in 1948..."

Arab League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Billo_Really (Jan 19, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> So true, Marg.  A person would have to be comatose not to realize that there are posters who throw around their "Chosen" bit like it was a derogatory term for the Jews.  If a Muslim were posting here and saying like was said on other forums that Islam is for the entire world, those spouting off about "Chosen" would be very, very quiet and not say a thing.


If you want a little sympathy, you'll find it between "shit" and "syphalis" in the dictionary.

You complaining about the derrogatory comments of others, is like Charles Manson bitching about people who are "pro-choice".

After all the crap you've said about muslims, take this whiney bullshit and shove it up your ass!


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## Billo_Really (Jan 19, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> Yes - why don't you?


I don't jump to conclusions.

Why don't you post where I have?


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## Billo_Really (Jan 19, 2013)

ima said:


> Of course he does, doesn't he send the ones he likes to heaven and the ones he doesn't like to hell.


That's on Judgement Day, a whole different thing.



ima said:


> Plus, according to the traditional Jewish interpretation of the Bible, Israel's character as the chosen people is unconditional, as it says in Deuteronomy 14:2,
> "For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."
> The Torah also says,
> "Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine" (Exodus 19:5).
> ...


I'm not jewish and I don't subscribe to their teachings.

After 8 years of Catholic school and over a 1000 masses attended, that has not been my experience.  God does not choose, that is not what HE is about.


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## Hossfly (Jan 19, 2013)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > So true, Marg.  A person would have to be comatose not to realize that there are posters who throw around their "Chosen" bit like it was a derogatory term for the Jews.  If a Muslim were posting here and saying like was said on other forums that Islam is for the entire world, those spouting off about "Chosen" would be very, very quiet and not say a thing.
> ...


Does this mean that every time you or one of your fellow travelers bring up "Chosen People" or "Chosen Ones" we can point it out to you?  I guess Loinboy doesn't realize what derogatory terms the Muslims use when referring to Infidels.  And that would be the least they would do to him if he were caught wandering around in several of the Muslim countries.  Oh, by the way, if you are trying to tell us you have a venereal disease, I would suggest it would be better for you to see your doctor instead of informing this forum.


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## ima (Jan 20, 2013)

Could it be that the Jews were chosen by god to be the ones to suffer armageddon in Palestine so that His son, Jesus could come back and save people like housefly?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 20, 2013)

ima said:


> Could it be that the Jews were chosen by god to be the ones to suffer armageddon in Palestine so that His son, Jesus could come back and save people like housefly?



I am not a Christian into all that Eschaetology Worship, that places a given or chosen theory of Eschaetology above the teachings of Jesus.

But, thinking about your comments, I am struck by this realization that very soon now the Muslims will exceed the Jews in the land of Palestine so they will be suffering more from an Armagedden then Jews will. The Jews will soon be a minority. Do not know how these facts factor into this theory.

????????????????????????

As I said, it is not a theory I believe in, so I will leave it for its proponents to ponder and meditate on!

Sherri


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## Hossfly (Jan 20, 2013)

ima said:


> Could it be that the Jews were chosen by god to be the ones to suffer armageddon in Palestine so that His son, Jesus could come back and save people like housefly?


Hossfly has never been to Israel but came close in Aug '58 during a deployment to Lebanon. I wanted to visit Israel and was set to go but a situation came up and I missed the bus. Years later I learned that members of the tribe of Menashe had to wait until we were called to build the 3d Temple. When you get a post that says Hossfly has a flight booked to Tel Aviv, you can commence to shittin' and gittin'.


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## georgephillip (Jan 20, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Could it be that the Jews were chosen by god to be the ones to suffer armageddon in Palestine so that His son, Jesus could come back and save people like housefly?
> ...


What were you doing in Lebanon in 1958, looking for Philistines?
If you're descended from one of the Ten Lost Tribes, why aren't you kosher?


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## Hossfly (Jan 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


I was on Operation Blue Bat but you wouldn't be interested.
And I'm a Republican.


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## ima (Jan 20, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Could it be that the Jews were chosen by god to be the ones to suffer armageddon in Palestine so that His son, Jesus could come back and save people like housefly?
> ...



Is that when you decided to wear a diaper full time?


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## Hossfly (Jan 20, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


You know, Frau Ima, no matter how large your falsies are and how close you shave, the guys at the Bund still don't want you.  Perhaps you should try a LGBT chat room and find someone willing to empty your Porta-Potty.  With Frau Ima bringing up diapers all the time, it is quite obvious that he/she has a big problem with incontinence.  This is why you see him/her trolling forums because it is difficult for him/her (even if it is a "spring chicken') to be out and about.  I would imagine that in the small town it lives in there are no doctors to help him/her with these problems.


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## georgephillip (Jan 20, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


I guess you voted for Ike?

"A Muslim rebellion that was allegedly supplied with arms by the UAR through Syria caused President Chamoun to complain to the United Nations Security Council. The United Nations sent a group of inspectors that reported that it didn't find any evidence of significant intervention from the UAR.

"The Soviet Premier, Nikita Khrushchev, threatened to use nuclear weapons in the event of an American intervention.[4]

"The toppling of a pro-Western government in Iraq's 14 July Revolution, along with the internal instability, caused President Chamoun to call for United States assistance.

*"Operation Blue Bat*

"The President of the United States, Eisenhower responded by authorizing Operation Blue Bat on July 15, 1958. 

"This was the first application of the Eisenhower Doctrine under which the U.S. announced that it would intervene to protect regimes it considered threatened by international communism. The goal of the operation was to bolster the pro-Western Lebanese government of President Camille Chamoun against internal opposition and threats from Syria and Egypt. 

"The plan was to occupy and secure the Beirut International Airport, a few miles south of the city, then to secure the port of Beirut and approaches to the city."

1958 Lebanon crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Hossfly (Jan 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


i like ike!!


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## georgephillip (Jan 20, 2013)

Me, too.


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## irosie91 (Jan 20, 2013)

oh gee----I remember   "i like ike"-----but only because I have a really good memory---
to  WAY BACK THEN----I am not even sure if I was able to read back then


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 20, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> oh gee----I remember   "i like ike"-----but only because I have a really good memory---
> to  WAY BACK THEN----I am not even sure if I was able to read back then


Ike sent me to Lebanon.


----------



## ima (Jan 20, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > oh gee----I remember   "i like ike"-----but only because I have a really good memory---
> ...



So you must be like 100 years old?


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 20, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


I wonder if Frau Ima graduated from high school.  It appears that he/she has no concept of history and what went on during what time period.  Meanwhile, as the readers can see, the Bund doesn't meet that often in Frau Ima's little town so he/she is so bored that he/she trolls forums.  One would think that a "spring chicken" like Frau Ima would have some friends his/her own age with whom to hang out with in person.  Are you really that unpopular, Frau Ima, in your town and are only accepted by the  Bund?


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## ima (Jan 21, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



You're so fucking stupid you can't even decide what gender I am.


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## Hossfly (Jan 21, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


What gender you are is debatable since you can't get over the habit of being vulgar like you were when you were a man.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 22, 2013)

"TEL AVIV, Israel  Israelis voted Tuesday in an election thats widely expected to hand Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a third term, but with a coalition far less stable than one hes enjoyed in recent years.

"Early exit polls found a bloc of right-wing parties with a very slim majority of 61 or 62 seats in Israels 120-member Parliament, while moderate forces did better than expected.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/01/22/180745/israels-benjamin-netanyahu-likely.html

How does Bibi manipulate settlements in the Occupied Territories this time, by declaring Greater Israel from the River to the sea?


----------



## ima (Jan 23, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Why? Because in the bible, god says to moses, women shall not fucking swear like fartsacks?
Actually, women are supposed to be made out of a man's rib, maybe that's where women get the swearing? Who knew?


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 23, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Frau Ima, just pull up your bloomers and sit quietly for a while before you start in with your vulgarities again.  I guess it is very difficult for you to try to act like a refined woman instead of a vulgar man,  About the only thing regarding your vulgarity is that we get an insight of words used in your little town that we never heard before like "fartsacks."  Maybe when you are not throwing out your vulgarities on this forum, you go outside and throw them at the cows to keep in practice.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 24, 2013)

"There is no dearth of other examples to illustrate what the Pike Committee Report calls 'FBI racism.' 

"The campaign to discredit Dr. Martin Luther King is a case that is now well-known. 

"In October 1963 the FBI sought permission, which was granted by Attorney General Robert Kennedy, to install wiretaps on King's home telephone and at two offices of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which King headed. 

"In November 1964 the FBI sent King the following unsigned note:

"King, there is only one thing left for you to do. You know what it is. You have just 34 days in which to do it. (This exact number has been selected for a specific reason.) It has definite practical significance. You are done. There is but one way out for you."

Domestic Terrorism: Notes on the State System of Oppression, by Noam Chomsky


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## RoccoR (Jan 24, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

I obviously missed the point here.



georgephillip said:


> "There is no dearth of other examples to illustrate what the Pike Committee Report calls 'FBI racism.'
> 
> "The campaign to discredit Dr. Martin Luther King is a case that is now well-known.
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Why are we looking at a domestic internal security case more than half a century old?

Most Respectfully,
R


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## ima (Jan 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Fartsack was inspired by the good folks on this forum... like you. People who blow hot farts out their mouthes instead of something worthwhile. 
But thanks for the Frau compliment, since everyone knows that Hitler was largely responsible for Israel's creation. Too bad you're about to die and will never see armageddon in your lifetime. AWWWW, so close!


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 24, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


I don't think that anyone here needs a lesson on vulgarities from you, Frau Ima.  Just pull up your bloomers and learn to speak like a refined woman instead of a vulgar man.  As the readers can see, Frau Ima is still obsessed with death.  Remember he/she told the readers that he/she already has his/her burial site picked out


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## georgephillip (Jan 24, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> I obviously missed the point here.
> 
> ...


I was attempting to link what I consider to be domestic terrorism like that practiced against King with its international counterparts like the blank check the US provides Israel in the Middle East. Mayhaps, I goofed?

Here's where I' coming from, Rocco:
Over half-a-century ago, Albert Einstein and Bertrand Russell wrote an open letter to the world pointing out a choice that was "stark and dreadful and inescapable" either mankind ends war or war ends humanity. That could be Natural Selection (upper division) saying that any specie that kills its young for money or glory is hardwired to self destruct as some crucial point in its evolution (like about the time its weapons begin leaving its planet's surface?) In this scenario, the dominant superpower would destroy itself and much of the rest of the planet, as well. Should such a narrative unfold, it seems like Israel is destined to play a leading role regardless of the existence of any god or gods.(or Moses for that matter.)


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## ima (Jan 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



See? this post by housefly is typical fart smoke with no real purpose, escaping to stink up the place and is a major cause of global warming and human stupidity. 
Like I said, we're all glad that your life is almost over. As you look back on it, do you ever realize that there was no point to it anyways, and that you've accomplished nothing?


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## Hossfly (Jan 24, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Abd, I own you.


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## ima (Jan 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Good for you, now you can give your fictitious trophy to your fictitious god to hold until he wants you dead and next to him, which will be any day now.


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## Hossfly (Jan 24, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Just pull up those bloomers, Frau Ima, and leave the vulgarity to when you attend the Bund meetings in your little town.  Ask yourself, Frau Ima, if your life has any purpose in it since a "spring chicken" like you claim to be would be either volunteering your time to help others and/or hanging out with friends his/her own age instead of posting a bunch of nonsense and vulgarities on a message board like the troll many think you are.  Evidently, Frau Ima  must think a troll like he/she has actually accomplished anything in life when he/she actually accomplished nothing.  Did you take a poll, you silly he/she, to find out if all the readers would be glad that my life might be over?  For all you know, there are many readers who wish you would just disappear and take your vulgarities with you.


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## RoccoR (Jan 24, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Well, the domestic issues of the 1960's had so many triggers and causes, we could write an encyclopedia size dissertation on it, and still not give it the justice due the topic.  But the fear, that projected irrational government actions, were almost instilled in a way that is beyond anything we could justify today.  Whether it be the racial barriers and prejudices of that time, the communist conspiracies and the threat of nuclear war, or the anti-war premise as a whole with revolutions everywhere you looked.  And of course, there was the general counter-culture of the time and the never ending search for a idealistic utopia.  America was having a nervous break-down, and we were lucky to get through it in one piece.  And everyone thought they were on the right side of whatever issue was at the top of the heap on any given day.  _(Even President Kennedy's principal advisors of the day were known as the "Whiz Kids."  Today, part of that legacy period comes the JASONs; MITRE's answer, independent group of scientists that advise DOD and the government in general.)_

Back then, nearly anything could be tagged as racist, and the conversation would be derailed, while the premise of the arguments were cleaned, screened, and sanitized.   



georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > I obviously missed the point here.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Ah, yes, the passage you cite comes from the Manifesto _(and is not the usual Einstein Letter many people ask about relative to the Jewish State)_, paragraph 10.



The Manifesto: On 9 July 1955, Bertrand Russell read what became known as the Russell-Einstein Manifesto to the worlds press assembled in London. 
http://www.spokesmanbooks.com/Spokesman/PDF/85russein.pdf
The key passage that couple with this is on how we think.  Both Einstein and Russell were Nobel Laureate, and I'm convinced that part of the beauty of their work rests in the fact that they are blessed with a different way of thinking.  It is what separates a Laureate from the rest of us.  They have mental insight that we normal mortals have.



			
				Para 5 said:
			
		

> We have to learn to think in a new way. We have to learn to ask ourselves, not what steps can be taken to give military victory to whatever group we prefer, for there no longer are such steps; the question we have to ask ourselves is: what steps can be taken to prevent a military contest of which the issue must be disastrous to all parties?



Both Russell-Einstein _(as well as the other 9 Nobel Laureates that signed the Resolution)_ were principally speaking to the issue of Nuclear Weapons and the military application in crisis.  But the means by which we derive a solution, the "thinking," is applicable across the board.

The problem is, none of us will ever be a Russell or an Einstein.  We simply can't mentally perform on that level, so we cannot see the probabilities and outcomes.  If we could, there would have been an end to the Arab-Israel Conflict in 1948 when Einstein wrote his protest letter to the New York Times (Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism In Israel)

Most Respectfully,
R


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## georgephillip (Jan 24, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Well, the domestic issues of the 1960's had so many triggers and causes, we could write an encyclopedia size dissertation on it, and still not give it the justice due the topic.  But the fear, that projected irrational government actions, were almost instilled in a way that is beyond anything we could justify today.  Whether it be the racial barriers and prejudices of that time, the communist conspiracies and the threat of nuclear war, or the anti-war premise as a whole with revolutions everywhere you looked.  And of course, there was the general counter-culture of the time and the never ending search for a idealistic utopia.  America was having a nervous break-down, and we were lucky to get through it in one piece.  And everyone thought they were on the right side of whatever issue was at the top of the heap on any given day.  _(Even President Kennedy's principal advisors of the day were known as the "Whiz Kids."  Today, part of that legacy period comes the JASONs; MITRE's answer, independent group of scientists that advise DOD and the government in general.)_
> 
> ...


*Rense, Rocco???????*

"Letters to the Editor
New York Times
December 4, 1948

"TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:

"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the 'Freedom Party' (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."

Chomsky has repeatedly claimed the majority of Zionists opposed the creation of a Jewish State in 1948, however, elites in Israel, DC and London disagreed.

Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism In Israel


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## RoccoR (Jan 24, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_




georgephillip said:


> *Rense, Rocco???????*
> 
> "Letters to the Editor
> New York Times
> ...


*(REFERENCES)*

I look for the content.  The site I don't care about, I can see past that.  But here are some alternatives.  Often, sources in the media truncate documents.


Einstein: Letter to New York Times [Scanned Original]
http://users.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/NYTimes1948.pdf
Albert Einstein Letter to The New York Times. December 4, 1948 New Palestine Party. Visit of Menachen Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed : Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, Sidney Hook, et.al. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
Albert Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism In Israel | December 4, 1948

The first one in this group is easiest on my eyes, although I don't have to read it much any more.  I think I know most of it by heart.

Yeah, Chomsky's arguments are provocative in that way.  This is "set theory."  It depends on who you call a "Zionist" and who you call "Elite."  

Like most of the works of Einstein, people are always trying to interpret what he is saying, and their interpretation (like mine) can be imperfect or even manipulated to achieve a desired effect.  But it is the content we need to address and take away (my personal opinion).

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Hossfly (Jan 24, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al,_
> ...


Regardless, Einstein left his papers to Hebrew University; and if he thought Zionism was so bad, he would have left his papers to perhaps Princeton.

Hebrew University launches Einstein Archives website
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Department of Media Relations.
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
Mar 19, 2012  Launch marks Einstein's 133rd birthday on March 14, celebrated as ... 40,000 documents contained in Albert Einstein's personal papers and over 30,000 ... to the Hebrew University, including the rights to the use of his image.


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## RoccoR (Jan 25, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

I think, you are half right.  It is a joint project.  Professor Einstein did not bequeath his papers at all.  Otto Nathan, the executor of the estate and co-trustee (with Helen Dukas) of the estate of Einstein, did.



Hossfly said:


> Regardless, Einstein left his papers to Hebrew University; and if he thought Zionism was so bad, he would have left his papers to perhaps Princeton.
> 
> Hebrew University launches Einstein Archives website
> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Department of Media Relations.
> ...


*(INFORMATION)*

REFERENCE LINK:
CALTECH Einstein Papers Project:  The Collected Papers of Albert Einstein 
Einstein Papers Project at Caltech
Einstein Archive On-line (via CALTECH)
Einstein Archives Online



			
				About the Einstein Archives said:
			
		

> *ARCHIVAL DATABASE*
> 
> From 2003 to 2011, the Archival Database included approximately 43,000 records of Einstein and Einstein- related documents. Supplementary archival holdings and databases pertaining to Einstein documents have been established at both the Einstein Papers Project and the Albert Einstein Archives for scholarly research. As of 2012 the Archival Database allows direct access to all 80,000 records of Einstein and Einstein-related documents in the original and the supplementary archive. The records published in this online version pertain to Albert Einsteins scientific and non-scientific writings, his professional and personal correspondence, notebooks, travel diaries, personal documents, and third-party items contained in both the original collection of Einsteins personal papers and in the supplementary archive.​
> *PUBLISHED VERSIONS*
> ...


 
I understand that the "Israeli government has approved the establishment of an Albert Einstein museum that will make items from the scientists estate, including part of an 80,000 document archive, available to the public."  However, the 80,000 documents actual are accessed through the CALTECH project; it is a joint project with The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

It is to everyone's best interest that Einstein be remembered as being supportive of the Jewish Homeland.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Lakhota (Jan 25, 2013)

I have always thought that the gravest threat to world peace is religion.


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## georgephillip (Jan 27, 2013)

The Israeli/Palestinian Confederation is one of the latest attempts to break the current two-state/one-state dilemma in Palestine:

"The brain-child of an Encino attorney named Josef Avesar, the event featured a panel of prominent intellectuals seeking an alternative route to the Road Map, supposedly because it is not working. 

"John Van De Kamp, a former LA district attorney, hosted the panel, which was filled out by a panoply of Arab intellectuals dressed in suits from the American university scene, a Middle East studies department head from UC Santa Barbara, a representative from the Muslim Public Affairs Council, and even an ex-Israeli general, Shlomo Gazit, one of the architects of the Oslo peace process and by all appearances there to fill the role of a token Jewish speaker. 

The Israeli-Palestinian Confederation: Another Scam to Dismantle Israel

Since Israel claims to be more comfortable working with a Jordanian/Palestinian Confederation, a sovereign Palestinian state forming a confederation with Jordan might be a useful step in bringing Peace to the West Bank?


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## Hossfly (Jan 27, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> The Israeli/Palestinian Confederation is one of the latest attempts to break the current two-state/one-state dilemma in Palestine:
> 
> "The brain-child of an Encino attorney named Josef Avesar, the event featured a panel of prominent intellectuals seeking an alternative route to the Road Map, supposedly because it is not working.
> 
> ...


That was a great article by Lee, Kaplan exposing that group, Georgie Boy.  I didn't think you had in in you to ever post an article like that -- unless of course you didn't read the entire article.


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## irosie91 (Jan 28, 2013)

beware    UNIVERSALIST MOVEMENTS  -----they are often  FASCIST DRIVEN.    Virtually 
every genocide in the history of mankind was driven by a  TOTALITARIAN 
UTOPIAN IDEOLOGY    ------all the way back to the very sick concept of   PAX ROMANA

     (they all sound good-----and end up with genocide)


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## ima (Jan 28, 2013)

The gravest threat to world peace would have to be irosie opening her legs real wide.


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## georgephillip (Jan 28, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > The Israeli/Palestinian Confederation is one of the latest attempts to break the current two-state/one-state dilemma in Palestine:
> ...


Kaplan's title revealed his bias.
I'm not too surprised he didn't mention the 650,000 Jews who inflicted a Jewish State upon 1.2 million Arabs in 1948.
Are you?


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## Hossfly (Jan 28, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


I think you didn't read the article yourself, or else you wouldn't have posted it.  Meanwhile, while you keep blabbering about the Arabs that were there, you never mention the fact that the majority swarmed into Israel from their impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them.  Why do you think the Hispanics have crossed our Southern border and their population has swelled here.  However if it makes you feel good to keep on stating about all those Arabs who weren't even there at the beginning in the first place, go for it.


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## georgephillip (Jan 28, 2013)

Most of the Jews swarmed in from Europe.
Arabs always had a majority in Mandate Palestine prior to al-Nakba.


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## irosie91 (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Most of the Jews swarmed in from Europe.
> Arabs always had a majority in Mandate Palestine prior to al-Nakba.




That would make sense since  up until the time of  ATATURK     shariah law 
was in effect   in  "palestine"  after the invasion and oppressive occupation 
of that land by  FOREIGNERS FROM ARABIA     Sharian law being what 
it is ----oppressive to the point of genocide-----the jewish population was 
further decimated      Once  the  Ottomans eased the restrictions and oppressions 
and the filth you love of SHARIAH oppression-----jews started returning to their 
home-land.     The demographics of many lands were markedly altered by the 
extensive islamic genocides     Khartoum is now --essentially an  ARAB COLONY 
in a country of  black subsaharans ----that had been largely christianized  in the 
early    AD   era     The most prominent people there ---ie the  "RULERS" 
are actually ethnic  and genetic   ARABS    ruling over the enslaved Nubians
        The good news is that despite people like you----SOUTH SUDAN 
managed to survive the filth you so love.     If people like you ran the world ---
the people of Khartoum would still be selling the native nubians of sudan 
  to their clients in arabia and other colonies of arabia  in North Africa or even 
to sugar plantations in South america.     Lots of islamo nazi pigs are pissed off 
over the fact that    SOUTH SUDAN was STOLEN  away from arab imperialism, 
and by SLAVES, no less      Gee you are disgusting


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## ima (Jan 29, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the Jews swarmed in from Europe.
> ...



Just curious iro, do your ravings and rantings even make any sense to you?


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## georgephillip (Jan 29, 2013)

"The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.


"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment *in Palestine* of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing *non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## irosie91 (Jan 29, 2013)

Is sherri endorsing this  post because it red-flags the fact 
that  the  BALFOUR DECLARATION GALVANIZED  deadly
 pogroms ---not only in palestine but in other SHARIAH SHIT   HOLES


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## georgephillip (Jan 29, 2013)

How many Rothschilds were killed?


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## RoccoR (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al_,

The assumption here is that:

That establishment of Israel was contingent upon those that "swarmed in from Europe."
That the "Arabs always had a majority" is somehow a necessary and sufficient condition for the prevention of the Jewish Homeland.
Unspoken here, but certainly implied, is that the majority _(the Arab Palestinians)_:

Has more inherent rights than any immigrant; the "swarmed in from Europe."
That only the majority has the right of self-determination and the right to establish a homeland.



georgephillip said:


> Most of the Jews swarmed in from Europe.
> Arabs always had a majority in Mandate Palestine prior to al-Nakba.


*(COMMENT)*

I've also noticed, during the course of the discussions, that:


The Arab Palestinian insists that there is no objection raised to the incorporation of the 70%+ of the British Mandate to Jordan, a separate sovereignty, but there was an inordinate objection to the half of the remaining 30%(-) for the establishment of the Jewish homeland.  _(Somehow the Allied Powers have the right to carve-out territory for an Arab State of Jordan --- and that is OK --- that is different.  But then they don't have the authority to carve-out a Jewish State; that is somehow wrong.)_
The Arab Palestinian insists it had some sovereign tie _(historical control)_ to the territory, over and beyond that of the Mandate by the Allied Powers, that of the Ottomans, that of the Mamelukes before them, that of the Filastin, or Pompey, or Alexander the Great, or Cyrus the Great, or the Babylonian, or the Assyrians, or King David of the Israelites, or even the Canaanites, when the historical lineage of control was clearly always another.  And so, the Palestinian claims to have been slighted by the Allied Powers of their territorial right to control; a control the Palestinian never had going back 3000 years.  They constantly refer to it as "their land" and constantly say Britain didn't own it and had no right to give it away.  When was it ever under the Palestinians right and control? *(Never!)*
I have often heard, in these discussions, talk about borders.  When did the Palestinians establish borders, and when was their Kingdom established?  Who was their first ruler and how did he (she, it) come to control Palestine.  Other than that afforded the Palestinian in UN GA Res 181 (II), when did the Rulers of Palestine ever grant the opportunity for the Palestinians to exercise self-rule? _ (I think maybe never.  Yet in the one time they are granted that option, they get greedy and rejected it.) _ 

I am just amazed.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## irosie91 (Jan 29, 2013)

Mr R    be not amazed----the  "borders"  arguement is one of 
desperation ----the  "swarmed in from europe"  arguement is 
racist.       In the early 1900s----in NEW YORK CITY---similar comments were being made of  southern blacks  "SWARMING" 
into the city    ---In fact similar comments were made about 
SWARMING-IN   irish immigrants in the history of the US.
We have managed to rise above that sort of crap.   
Racist pigs always  SEE  ----the presence of those they despise 
as an  ATTACK.   The part most interesting to me is the 
"from europe"   thing, most certainly does not describe the 
entire or even almost the entire or even the majority of 
the jewish immigrants


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## RoccoR (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al_,

What have you heard?



georgephillip said:


> How many Rothschilds were killed?



v/r
R


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## georgephillip (Jan 29, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> The assumption here is that:
> 
> ...


Rocco... does it follow that an Arab majority in Mandate Palestine was a sufficient and necessary condition for the prevention of a Jewish State? Over 700,000 Arabs left, fled, or were expelled from homes and businesses (and bank accounts) in 1948. Some of the refugees had deeds to land and other properties their families had controlled for generations. The fact that a sovereign state of Palestine did not issue the deeds doesn't appear relevant to whether or not the properties were stolen by Jews.


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## georgephillip (Jan 29, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> What have you heard?
> 
> ...


Not enough(?)


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## Hossfly (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Most of the Jews swarmed in from Europe.
> Arabs always had a majority in Mandate Palestine prior to al-Nakba.


You can have your ideas on what happened, and others can have theirs.

The Jews took no one?s land


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.
> 
> 
> "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment *in Palestine* of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing *non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
> ...


You really are pathetic, Georgie Boy, pulling up the same stuff over and over and over again.  Why not  give us some of the latest news which is happening in the  Muslim world?

Israel Today | Israel News | Palestinians desecrate Jewish holy site - Israel Today | Israel News

Ancient Manuscripts Torched by Radical Islamists - Global Agenda - News - Israel National News


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al_,




georgephillip said:


> Rocco... does it follow that an Arab majority in Mandate Palestine was a sufficient and necessary condition for the prevention of a Jewish State?


*(COMMENT)* 

Actually, no it doesn't.  While their is a popular view the the majority has the right to suppress the needs and rights of the minority; philosophically that is unsound.  If that were the case, the rights of Black Americans would never have been realized in the 20th Century _(as an example used in a couple of these threads)_.  The Arab majority does not have the right to suppress the destiny of the Jewish minority, especially when the majority does not have a leadership role in the administration of the territory.



georgephillip said:


> Over 700,000 Arabs left, fled, or were expelled from homes and businesses (and bank accounts) in 1948. Some of the refugees had deeds to land and other properties their families had controlled for generations. The fact that a sovereign state of Palestine did not issue the deeds doesn't appear relevant to whether or not the properties were stolen by Jews.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, I acknowledge this.  I have also had older Arab Palestinians tell me that many left because they thought that the conflict would be over quickly and they would all return in a matter of weeks; if not days.

Again, property ownership is a different thing from national sovereignty.  A change in national sovereignty does not impact the private ownership.  The deed is the deed; without regard to when it was issued or what sovereignty recorded it.  The deed is a record of transfer and ownership and is evidence of a valid claim.  If there is a case of theft _(war profiteering or land exploitation)_, then that is a criminal and civil suite.  And the claim is made in court, and the validity of the evidence is examined.  If found in favor of the plaintiff, restitution must be made.

This is hard to do when the sovereignty is at war or under siege by insurgencies.  But don't confuse the two issue.  The establishment of a Jewish State doesn't alter the private ownership of property _[Arab, Jewish or Martian (owned by little green men)]_.  It is illegal for the sovereignty to confiscate private property except in rare cases of eminent domain, or --- in cases where the property is used to commit serious crimes.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 29, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the Jews swarmed in from Europe.
> ...


"This is the modern real history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. *At no time did the Jews uproot Arab families from their homes*. When there were title deeds to be purchased, they bought them at inflated prices. When there were not, they worked the land so they could have a place to live without the persecution they faced throughout the world."

Except for the historical fact that 650,000 Jews uprooted an equal number of Arabs in 1948 when the "chosen people" inflicted a Jewish state upon 1.2 million Arabs and others. Your Middle Eastern mythology is as wanting as your commitment to the First Amendment.

The Jews took no one?s land


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



No, they did not.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 29, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Perhaps Georgie Boy can tell us whether he has a huge research department in his apartment where the people who come in every day are so knowledgeable that they tell him everything that happened in the past.  Meanwhile, Georgie Boy, no matter how many times you bring it up, it doesn't mean that there were all these Arabs there for years and years and years.  They drifted in, the same way you see others drifting into your own town.  Even the Egyptians themselves mention that many of the Palestinians come from Egypt.  Do you honestly think that Los Angeles is the same town that it was when you were brought here?  If you do, then you are very naive.  Now, of course, Georgie Boy is going to give us some sites where people who traveled through the area saw all these Arabs running around.  If anyone can do it, Georgie Boy, I know you can do it.


----------



## ima (Jan 30, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



housefly, today's Isralis are even LESS from the area then you claim the Pals are. Most Jews came from Europe, Russia, Africa, the Americas... Very few of them are real natives to the area. Lips is a good example.


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Jan 30, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What you failed to acknowledge is the right under international law of those refugees to return to their homes. It is not just a matter of compensation for property taken. I was just reading a title of an article about the concept of being steadfast from an email I received from Kairos Palestine. And when I recently spoke to a young woman in Gaza she spoke of being steadfast too and she told me what they want,  to return to their lands. Palestinians believe they will return to their lands some day and time seems to only make the resolve stronger.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 30, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rocco...I'm guessing we both remember 1964:

"The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88&#8211;352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) was a landmark piece of legislation in the United States[1] that outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities, and women.[2] 

"*It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation* in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public ("public accommodations").

Are you saying a majority of Americans would have voted against this Act in 1964?

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 30, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


*Sure, they did!*

"Take the figure of *675 depopulated villages* whose inhabitants comprise *85% of the inhabitants* of that part of Palestine that became Israel. It is equivalent to 230 million Americans or 44 millions Britons becoming homeless by the invasion of foreign hostile immigrants. 

"Imagine a state being congratulated for its &#8220;independence&#8221; (from whom I wonder?) 60 years ago on a land it does not own. *93% of Israel&#8217;s territory is stolen from its owners*. They are watching across the barbed wire or behind the Apartheid Wall. 

"... Perhaps the memory of a ten year-old boy recalling Al Nakba may be more meaningful. This is what I told Uri Avnery, the Israeli peace activist, in Paris one evening. 

"About a million people became refugees in 1948. 

"Their life had suddenly been transformed from a state of tranquility to a state of utter destitution: families expelled at gunpoint in the middle of night or in the heat of a summer day, screams of help, cries of pain, children lost, mothers clutching pillows instead of their children, thirsty old men shot in the head if they stopped for water in the forced march, a whole family dismembered to pieces by a bomb dropped from a plane while having supper, survivors of massacres walking about in a daze."

*It should happen to you and yours.*

http://www.plands.org/speechs/010.html


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 30, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...





> "Take the figure of 675 depopulated villages whose inhabitants comprise 85% of the inhabitants of that part of Palestine that became Israel. It is equivalent to 230 million Americans or 44 millions Britons becoming homeless by the invasion of foreign hostile immigrants.



And taken off the voter rolls, BTW. Some democracy.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 30, 2013)

Some Jews seem to be experiencing difficulty "choosing" between Democracy and Judaism.


----------



## SAYIT (Jan 30, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



You claimed correctly 650,000 Arabs left but your source claims 1 million. Right away you were made aware that your source lies. As for the 650,000 "refugees," they left for their own reasons and were not necessarily "uprooted" by Jews. 160,000 of the 810,000 permanent resident Arabs stayed in Israel and became part of the new nation. You have been made aware of these facts repeatedly yet you, like your source, continue to lie. Is that because the truth just doesn't support your claims?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 30, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...


I claimed (correctly) 650,000 Jews uprooted at least an equal number of Arabs from their homes, businesses, and bank accounts in 1948. My source who personally experienced al-Nakba claims as many as a million Arabs fled or were expelled from their property. You on the other hand repeatedly embrace Zionist fictions, fables, and outright lies:

"'*Palestine is a land without people*', 'the Zionists were in self defense', 'the few won against the many', '*the refugees left on their own accord or by Arab orders*', 'Israelis are peace loving and the IDF is merely saving the lives of innocent civilians against the Palestinian terrorists', 'Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East', 'there is no possibility for the refugees to return to Israel', '*Israel is an ethnically and legally Jewish state*', 'there is no Palestinian partner for peace', 'Palestinians turned down the Israelis&#8217; generous offer'&#8221;. 

"Today, a simple surfing on the internet is all that is needed to review the documents, books, papers, photos, and television footage, and to prove that all these statements are entirely false or at least highly exaggerated. 

"Those who spread them may admit that they are fully or partially wrong. 

"The main point is that they produced the desired effect at the right time and *tremendous gains have been obtained from them. *

http://www.plands.org/speechs/010.html


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 30, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn, georgephillip,  _et al_,

*REFERENCE: * 



Para 11 said:


> Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;
> 
> Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations;​*SOURCE:* A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948





SherriMunnerlyn said:


> What you failed to acknowledge is the right under international law of those refugees to return to their homes. It is not just a matter of compensation for property taken. I was just reading a title of an article about the concept of being steadfast from an email I received from Kairos Palestine. And when I recently spoke to a young woman in Gaza she spoke of being steadfast too and she told me what they want,  to return to their lands. Palestinians believe they will return to their lands some day and time seems to only make the resolve stronger.


*(COMMENT)*

There is a difference between,"customary law," - "treaty law," - and - "Statutory Law," that together makeup the bulk of International Law.

The hidden assumption here is that the "right of return" activates upon the cessation of hostilities; and that the "right of return" does not aggravate the "resumption or continuation of hostilities."

There is no "right of return" for refugees that have expressed an intention to conduct anti-government activities; by refugees that refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty; or by refugees that are presumed or affirmed to be enemies of the state.  In none of these cases is their customary, statutory, or treaty law that requires a nation to allow violent offenders, anarchist, insurgents, or terrorists from returning to their place of origin once that have withdrawn to other territories.

I don't think there is anyone that really argues the point that refugees have, in the pursuit of peace and prosperity, the right to return to their point of origin after a conflict is concluded.  I believe this was established as customary law well before the turn of the 20th Century.   

However it doesn't apply to any citizenry or refugees that hold allegiance to an Islamic Resistance Movement  or advocates of jihad.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 30, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al_,

*(PREFACE)*

No one argues that the Jewish were the minority and the Arab Palestinian was the majority.



			
				Federalist Paper No. 10 said:
			
		

> &#8220;the great danger in republics is that the majority will not respect the rights of minority.&#8221;
> *SOURCE:* Bill of Rights Institute: Federalist Papers No. 10





			
				P r i n c i p l e s    o f    D e m o c r a c y:  Majority Rule said:
			
		

> Democracies understand that protecting the rights of minorities to uphold cultural identity, social practices, individual consciences, and religious activities is one of their primary tasks.
> Acceptance of ethnic and cultural groups that seem strange if not alien to the majority can represent one of the greatest challenges that any democratic government can face. But democracies recognize that diversity can be an enormous asset. They treat these differences in identity, culture, and values as a challenge that can strengthen and enrich them, not as a threat.
> *SOURCE:* U.S. GOVERNMENT > Introduction to the U.S. System > Principles of Democracy





georgephillip said:


> Rocco...I'm guessing we both remember 1964:
> 
> "The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88&#8211;352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) was a landmark piece of legislation in the United States[1] that outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities, and women.[2]
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The fact is, the Congress passed the legislation.  But there were large swaths of society that did not agree.

I lived in times when the majority rule and segregation was enforced by law.  I remember watching on TV when US Marshals escorted black students to class under the protection of federal troops.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 30, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> *(PREFACE)*
> 
> ...


I remember watching the same television news stories, Rocco.
No doubt Jim Crow would've trounced Human Rights at the ballot box in Dixie.
I suspect that would not have been the case nationally in 1964-65.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 30, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al_,

I remember watching the same television news stories, Rocco.
No doubt Jim Crow would've trounced Human Rights at the ballot box in Dixie.
I suspect that would not have been the case nationally in 1964-65.[/QUOTE]
*(COMMENT)*

Yes, I don't know if it is true.  But then, I get to see this all the time.




v/r
R


----------



## skye (Jan 30, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> I remember watching the same television news stories, Rocco.
> No doubt Jim Crow would've trounced Human Rights at the ballot box in Dixie.
> I suspect that would not have been the case nationally in 1964-65.







with all respect RoccoR..... you have been  sitting on the fence for too long now...who are you with

the Islamic terrorists or Israel ...I still don't get you


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 31, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> I remember watching the same television news stories, Rocco.
> No doubt Jim Crow would've trounced Human Rights at the ballot box in Dixie.
> I suspect that would not have been the case nationally in 1964-65.


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, I don't know if it is true.  But then, I get to see this all the time.




v/r
R[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, I don't get to see "this" at all?
When I try to open your image, all I see is a Google error message.
Which is probably a glitch on my end.


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 31, 2013)

skye said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al_,
> ...


False Dichotomy


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 31, 2013)

Skye,  _et al_,

In this, I made a syntax mistake.  Apologies are in order.  This is really a quote from George _(georgephillip)_.



georgephillip said:


> I remember watching the same television news stories, Rocco.
> No doubt Jim Crow would've trounced Human Rights at the ballot box in Dixie.
> I suspect that would not have been the case nationally in 1964-65.



While it may appear that I sit on the fence, I really don't.



skye said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > I remember watching the same television news stories, Rocco.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

I am never on the side of "terrorists" _(any kind)_.  I'm a retired Counterintelligence Agent.  (http://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/hr218faq.pdf)  Counterintelligence is defined by 50 USC § 401a:



			
				50 USC § 401a - Definitions said:
			
		

> (3) The term counterintelligence means information gathered, and activities conducted, to protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, foreign organizations, or foreign persons, _*or international terrorist activities*_.
> *SOURCE:* 50 USC § 401a - Definitions | Title 50 - War and National Defense | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute





			
				50 U.S.C. § 1801 said:
			
		

> (c) "International terrorism" means activities that -
> (1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
> (2) appear to be intended -
> (A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
> ...



My allegiance is to the United States; not Israel.  Israel is a non-NATO major ally.



			
				22 U.S.C. § 2403 said:
			
		

> (q) "Major non-NATO ally" means a country which is designated in accordance with section 2321k of this title as a major non-NATO ally for purposes of this chapter and the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.).
> *SOURCE:* 22 U.S.C. § 2403 : US Code - Section 2403: Definitions



Palestinians and Islamic Terrorist, while often viewed in a synonymous way, are not actually one and the same.  This is guilt by association and tacit support by the indigenous populace that call themselves Palestinian.  Some Palestinians are Islamic Terrorists; and some Islamic Terrorists are Palestinians.  

Israel operates in its own best interest, as they interpret those interests to be; just as the United States does.  When those interests align, then we are allied in a common cause.  When they don't align, then I follow the Constitution _(the universal constant)_ and the "Rule of Law." 

When Israel steps outside the accepted lines of the "Rule of Law," then I support the "Rule of Law" over and above the interests of Israel.  I don't support Israel, in a "right or wrong" condition.  Just as I don't oppose the Palestinian whether they are "right or wrong."  The "Rule of Law" takes precedence in both cases. 

*THUS:*  While it may appear to those that follow a "support them (either side) - a right or wrong" policy, it is not when you stand on the side of the "Rule of Law" and the concept of "due process."

This often puts me at odds with both sides of the equation. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 31, 2013)

Rocco...did you support the US government's decision to invade and occupy Iraq?


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 31, 2013)

georgephillip,

This is a very tough question.



georgephillip said:


> Rocco...did you support the US government's decision to invade and occupy Iraq?


*(COMMENT)*

Did I believe that it was a right decision?  No

Did I support the government?  Yes  I served in Iraq a total of 5 years.

v/r
R


----------



## ima (Jan 31, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,
> 
> This is a very tough question.
> 
> ...



How many of the iraqis that you shot were innocent?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 31, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,
> 
> This is a very tough question.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your honesty.
Once again you seem to rise above the pettiness many on this board (myself included) regularly display.

Here's a question that may be even tougher for someone in your position to face:

If the event that set in motion the invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq depended upon the complicity of elements within the US government, which is the greater crime, the murder of nearly 3000 Americans or the cover up that has followed?

Building 7 Implosion: The Smoking Gun of 9/11


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 31, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Yes, in the aftermath of every major traumatic event, there will be a trail of conspiracy theories that accuse everyone from a Kindergarden Class to Santa and his Elves for the event.



georgephillip said:


> Here's a question that may be even tougher for someone in your position to face:
> 
> If the event that set in motion the invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq depended upon the complicity of elements within the US government, which is the greater crime, the murder of nearly 3000 Americans or the cover up that has followed?
> 
> Building 7 Implosion: The Smoking Gun of 9/11


*(COMMENT)*

There will always be those that think they have uncovered some "smoking gun."  It will be a fruitless but never-ending series of theories and debunking.  Generally, theories get the upper hand because there are always unknowns in an event.

There is nothing disclosed in the ae911truth article that hasn't already been examined and debunked. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 31, 2013)

ima,

Is this an accusatory question?



ima said:


> How many of the iraqis that you shot were innocent?


*(QUESTION)*

How do you know I shot anyone?

*(COMMENT)*

This kind of question says something about the that which asks it.  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ima (Jan 31, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> ima,
> 
> Is this an accusatory question?
> 
> ...


Cmon, you were there for 5 years and never fragged anyone? What were you, the official potato peeler?


----------



## georgephillip (Jan 31, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, in the aftermath of every major traumatic event, there will be a trail of conspiracy theories that accuse everyone from a Kindergarden Class to Santa and his Elves for the event.
> 
> ...


"Let&#8217;s consider the evidence:
Speed of Collapse
As documented by video footage, *Building 7 collapsed at free-fall acceleration for a distance of more than 100 feet* &#8211; equal to at least eight stories."

Building 7 Implosion: The Smoking Gun of 9/11


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 31, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al,_
> ...


Serious question:  How many floors were above the points of impact of the planes that hit each building? I don't have time to google it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 31, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



No plane hit bldg. 7.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 31, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Why, Tinnie, with two big planes hitting the other buildings, you don't think that Bldg. 7 got hit with some of the debris that made it feasible to pull down.  Why not do some research and find out why that building was taken down?  And why not read how the person who leased those buildings from the New York Port Authority still had to pay on his lease even though he was not collecting anything from sublessees on the buildings which were no longer there.  I don't think even you would pull down a building if you thought you would still have to pay the authorities from whom you leased the building if there was not some good reason to do so..  How nice, though,  that there are so many conspiracy nuts in this country!!!  Maybe instead of telling us that Elvis is still alive, Tinnie will tell us he spotted Arafat wandering around Pennsylvania.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 31, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...





> ...you don't think that Bldg. 7 got hit with some of the debris that made it feasible to pull down.



Sure, there was some damage to the building on one side. If that damage was enough to cause a collapse it would have fallen over to that side. Falling straight down was impossible.


----------



## Hossfly (Jan 31, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


It fell straight up then?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 31, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Say it like you think it.

Duh, It fell straight up then?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 1, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al_,
> 
> The assumption here is that:
> 
> ...



You stated in another post.



> When Israel steps outside the accepted lines of the "Rule of Law," then I support the "Rule of Law" over and above the interests of Israel. I don't support Israel, in a "right or wrong" condition. Just as I don't oppose the Palestinian whether they are "right or wrong." *The "Rule of Law" takes precedence in both cases.*



That is the position I have always taken.

Who has the right to the land?

Who has the right to self determination?

Who has the right to a state?

Who has the right to defend themselves?

I believe that in every case the Palestinians hold those rights.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 1, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al_,
> ...




All people SHOULD have such rights      No people should be subject 
to the kind of oppression that non muslims face under islamic rule.   
The secession of south sudan from sudan is a great victory---compensation 
to the victims and freeing of the children enslaved under the filth that tinnie 
supports   remains an issue.    I support enslavement of the children of those 
who support the  DHIMMI ORPHAN law that threatened the life of my
mother-in-law and which has resulted in the enslavement and rape 
and abuse of tens of thousands of children under the KHARTOUM 
regime that tinnie supports


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 1, 2013)

P F Tinmore,  _et al_,

These are good _(very good)_ questions!



P F Tinmore said:


> That is the position I have always taken.
> 
> Who has the right to the land?
> 
> ...


*(SIMPLE ANSWERS)*


Q1:  Who has the right to the land?
A1:  It is a question of rightful ownership.  Who owns the land by deed or grant?​
Q2:  Who has the right to self determination?
A2:  The population that takes the initiative to pursue it.​
Q3:  Who has the right to a state?
A3:  This is a question of establishing sovereignty.  The authority changes over time.  In 1900 the authority rested with the Ottoman Empire.  In 1940 it rested with the Mandatory, the Allied Powers and the UN/LoN.  Today, since Resolution 181, the Camp David, Dayton, Oslo, it was available through negotiation (Offer and Acceptance).  Or,since the offers were declined, annexation.​
Q4:  Who has the right to defend themselves?
A4:  Any sovereignty attacked.  Article 51.​
This last question is tricky because it Israel, a sovereignty, is under siege by an aggressor that is trying to over turn its sovereignty.   

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ima (Feb 1, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> 
> These are good _(very good)_ questions!
> 
> ...


Israel was the original aggressor and that war isn't over.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 1, 2013)

ima,  _et al_,

Let's, for the sake of argument, say this is true.  What are the consequences?



ima said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al_,
> ...


*(CONSEQUENCES)*


Q1:  Who has the right to the land?
A1:  Unchanged --- the owner _(supra)_​
Q2:  Who has the right to self determination?
A2:  Undecided --- trial by combat is still in-progress.​
Q3:  Who has the right to a state?
A3:  Already decided ...  Israel is established, and Palestinians rejected.​
Q4:  Who has the right to defend themselves?
A4:  Five Arab Armies attacked, outcome still undecided.  Israel could annex the Occupied Territories.  Occupation still authorized because the hostilities have not ended.​
Most Respectfully,
R


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## irosie91 (Feb 1, 2013)

Khaybar   629 AD       the rapist pig of arabia attacked the  children of Israel----that war is 
not yet over------the ass lickers of the rapist pig---muhummad ibn abdullah----were the 
aggressors-----that war is not yet over


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## ima (Feb 1, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> Khaybar   629 AD       the rapist pig of arabia attacked the  children of Israel----that war is
> not yet over------the ass lickers of the rapist pig---muhummad ibn abdullah----were the
> aggressors-----that war is not yet over



Iro, go suck the shit from your dog's ass.


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## georgephillip (Feb 3, 2013)

"The fundamental problem is the failure to face the fact that government policies dont come out of a vacuum. Mearsheimer and Walt are realists in international relations theory, which basically holds that the domestic power structure is not a significant factor in the formation of state policy. 

"State policy is supposed to be concerned with something called 'the national interest,' which is a kind of abstraction made in the interest of the population, but isnt. 

"For centuries its been understood that there are different factors within the society, different distributions of power, some more powerful than others. "

Among the most powerful factions in US society are those who profit obscenely from the mass killing of civilians for political means, i.e., terrorism. "Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in the voting booth will never remove that threat.

http://www.zcommunications.org/reflections-on-a-lifetime-of-engagement-with-zionism-the-palestine-question-and-american-empire-by-noam-chomsky


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## RoccoR (Feb 4, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

I'm not sure I agree with this, as applied to the US.



EXCERPT georgephillip said:


> Among the most powerful factions in US society are those who profit obscenely from the mass killing of civilians for political means, i.e., terrorism. "Choosing" between Republican OR Democrat in the voting booth will never remove that threat.


*(COMMENT)*

While we've heard of examples of this, relative to Southeast Asia, the Arab world and Africa, I've not known the US to go on a campaign to target civilians since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  And in war, there are exceptions and situations that constantly evolve.

War profiteering will always be with us; no matter what country you talk about.  If it ever engages in war, there is a profit to be made.  But generally, the US does not make a profit on civilian casualties.  That has an adverse impact on the development of an economy.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## SAYIT (Feb 4, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Except bldg 7 didn't get knocked over from the debris but rather set ablaze which, after hours of unimpeded burning, weakened the floor supports at the outer walls causing collapse. You knew that TinHorn but lamely attempted to muddy the waters. I consider that lying. To this posting there remains no evidence of demo rigging, no evidence of conspiracy to destroy or cover-up (other than that of al Qaeda) and no evidence of controlled demo, much to the chagrin of al Qaeda apologists like TinHorn. None.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 4, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
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So you think an office fire will melt all of the beams in a building *at the same time?*


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## Billo_Really (Feb 4, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> This last question is tricky because it Israel, a sovereignty, is under siege by an aggressor that is trying to over turn its sovereignty.


A population under the belligerent occupation of a foreign force against its will, is not the aggressor.  And Israel is not under siege.  When Germany annexed Poland, do you consider them "under siege" from the Poles?


RoccoR said:


> *(SIMPLE ANSWERS)*
> 
> 
> Q1:  Who has the right to the land?_
> ...


Yes.  The Palestinian's sovereignty has been attacked for the last 45 years.

BTW, why can't you make your posts more reader friendly?  All this formatting and salutations just make it more difficult to understand your point and even more work to respond to.  Just sayin...


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## georgephillip (Feb 4, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> I'm not sure I agree with this, as applied to the US.
> 
> ...


Rocco...the US has maimed, murdered, displaced, and incarcerated millions of civilians from Korea to Kandahar since Hiroshima and Nagasaki; there have been $billions of war-related profits during that time.


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## georgephillip (Feb 5, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


As of this posting there remains no shortage of evidence that proves thermitic materials contributed to the downfall of all three World Trade Center towers on 9/11/01:

"The scientific paper Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe provides, quite simply, proof that explosives were used in the destruction of the Twin Towers. 

"*Specifically, the paper positively identifies an advanced engineered pyrotechnic material *in each of several samples of dust from the destroyed skyscrapers, in the form of tiny chips having red and gray sides and sharing a very specific three-dimensional structure, chemical composition, and ignition behavior."

Only punks and pathics willing to lie regularly in amateurish apologies for a corrupt government claim there's no evidence of controlled demolition on 911, not unlike their treasonous support of Israel's deliberate attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 which killed 34 Americans sailing in international waters.

Active Thermitics Made Simple


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## irosie91 (Feb 5, 2013)

thermite is nothing more than oxidized IRON  fragments    
nothing  "advanced"   about it ----it can be used in explosives 
but then so can  NITROGEN BASED FERTILIZERS    

there is no evidence of a controlled demolition in the towers


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## georgephillip (Feb 5, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> thermite is nothing more than oxidized IRON  fragments
> nothing  "advanced"   about it ----it can be used in explosives
> but then so can  NITROGEN BASED FERTILIZERS
> 
> there is no evidence of a controlled demolition in the towers


Because, so far, the government hasn't seen fit to look for evidence of controlled demolition:

"A Nano-thermite or '*super-thermite*'[1] is a metastable intermolecular composite (MICs) characterized by a particle size of its main constituents, a metal and a metal oxide, under 100 Nanometers. This allows for high and customizable reaction rates. 

"Nano-thermites contain an oxidizer and a reducing agent, which are intimately mixed on the nanometer scale. 

"MICs, including nano-thermitic materials, are a type of reactive materials investigated for military use, as well as for general applications involving propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics."

Nano-thermite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Hossfly (Feb 5, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Gee, Georgie Boy, many think that only punks and pathetic people wouldn't spend some time researching "debunking the myths of 9/11."  As the readers can see, pathetic Georgie Boy, once again has to pull up the Liberty incident in his post.  It appears he has so little to place the blame on those he hates that he consistently drag up the same old things.  Meanwhile, of course, he closes his eyes to what is happening in the world of today.  It is more important to him to pull up stuff which happened more than ten years ago.  Just be glad that those radical Muslims didn't have the time to do something drastic to one of the buildings in Los Angeles as they planned as you might have been in the vicinity to be harmed.


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## georgephillip (Feb 6, 2013)

You can grovel from now until your gravest day, but it won't change Physics or History:

"As this simplified summary of the findings of the paper Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe shows, the distinctive red-gray chips found consistently in dust samples from the destroyed Twin Towers are clearly an advanced engineered pyrotechnic material. 

"It is not even remotely possible that the material could have been formed spontaneously through any random process such as the total destruction of the Twin Towers. Nor is it possible that the material was present in the Towers for some innocent reason.

"The chips are clearly the unexploded remains of a pyrotechnic material -- likely a high explosive -- that was present in the Twin Towers in large quantities. 

"Reasonable estimates of tonnage of material based on the abundance of red-gray chips in the dust range from the tens into the hundreds. 

"Although the installation of so much material would require considerable planning and logistics, it would not necessarily be difficult to conceal, as this hypothetical blasting scenario shows."

Active Thermitics Made Simple


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## irosie91 (Feb 6, 2013)

BS 

        who shot kennedy?         the lochness monster demanded release---he is 
                threatening a   HUNGER STRIKE


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## irosie91 (Feb 6, 2013)

with all that  "thermite"     why did anyone bother to crash planes into the towers?


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 6, 2013)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZeUy_pwRFQ]9/11 - Uncovering Ten Years Of Deception, Episode 4/5 - YouTube[/ame]


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## Hossfly (Feb 6, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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Looks like Tinnie is a conspiracy fellow (probably one of those who also believes that man never landed on the moon).  No doubt he would have been one of those pointing their fingers even before the dust began to settle  at the U.S. and Israel on a forum to discuss the atrocity committed by his Muslim friends.  Since Tinnie seems to be the East coast representative of Hamas, I wonder if he was also privy to what his friends were going to do on 9/11.  Maybe he even wished he was able to help that other Muslim sitting in jail right now for the previous bombing in one of the buildings of the WTC complex.   Meanwhile, Tinnie, have you ever spent any time researching those who are debunking all the myths of 9/11, or do you just prefer to accept what the others are saying about 9/11 because it fits your agenda.  Since Tinnie's friends committed this atrocity, it's a shame that Tinnie and those with the same mind set couldn't have taken up a collection to help the person who held the master lease on those buildings.  After all, since after this atrocity, with the buildings destroyed, he wasn't able to sublease the offices but still had to pay the New York Port Authority on his lease.  Can you imagine the huge sum of money this was, especially since the insurance money on his NNN lease didn't cover the costs of rebuilding.


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## georgephillip (Feb 6, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> with all that  "thermite"     why did anyone bother to crash planes into the towers?


"The progressive detonation of so many tons of energetic material would explain the mushrooming explosions that so systematically shattered each Tower from top to bottom, and the incredible thoroughness of the destruction, which left virtually no recognizable building components other than the heavy steelwork and cladding, *and no traceable fragment of more than 1000 human bodies*."

Active Thermitics Made Simple

"(N)o traceable fragment of more than 1000 human bodies."

*Nessie has an alibi...what about you?*


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## Hossfly (Feb 6, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > with all that  "thermite"     why did anyone bother to crash planes into the towers?
> ...


Why Georgie Boy is so consumed with 9/11 at this moment is anyone's quess.  i guess he ran out of things to whine about.  Let him and his fellow conspiracy travelers believe what they want to believe, and the rest of us can believe what we want to believe.  After all, we are a free country and wouldn't get arrested for what we believe.  I would think that the majority of people in this country are not obsessed conspiracy theorists, but are more concerned with what is happened today -- not over ten years ago.  Let us just be happy that our Intelligence Agencies have been able to pick up the terrorists before they had a chance to commit another atrocity like 9/11 and let us hope that their luck holds out because no doubt these terrorists will keep on trying.

9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking the Myths - World Trade Center - Pentagon - Flight 93 - Popular Mechanics


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 7, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...





> Since Tinnie's friends committed this atrocity, it's a shame that Tinnie and those with the same mind set* couldn't have taken up a collection to help the person who held the master lease on those buildings.* After all, since after this atrocity, with the buildings destroyed, he wasn't able to sublease the offices but still had to pay the New York Port Authority on his lease. Can you imagine the huge sum of money this was, especially since the insurance money on his NNN lease didn't cover the costs of rebuilding.



Indeed, poor guy. Start at 4:00

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hszDUyJJ2cU]9 11 Follow the Money find the criminals - YouTube[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Feb 7, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


Why is Hossie afraid of the fact that elites who control the US government have no compunctions about killing American civilians in New York or service members on board the USS Liberty? Is it possible he's spent his entire useless life serving a gold-plated lie? Maybe he should take his taxpayer-subsidized pensions in Tel Aviv?


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## Hossfly (Feb 7, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Looks like Tinnie is also one of those conspiracy nuts?  Did you ever do any research Tinnie on the debunking of these 9/11 myths?  Meanwhile, I hope you and your like-minded pals took up a collection for Silverstein since it is costing him millions and millions of dollars that he has to pay the New York Port Authority on the master lease he holds and the insurance money will not cover all the costs to rebuild.  After all, how can you collect money from your sub lessees when the buildings are not even there?  Say, Tinnie can contact that Port Authority on his magic computer that really isn't there and ask them how much must be paid each year on the lease.  By the way, someone in real estate in New York said that an Arab group was also competing for the lease on the WTC.  Do you think if the Arabs had won the competition that the terrorists who plotted and planned this atrocity would have still carried it out?


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## Hossfly (Feb 7, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...




And why is Georgie Boy so obsessed with 9/11 right now?  I wonder if the brave Georgie Boy would volunteer to be thrown into the cell with that tough looking hombre who was one of the plotters of 9/11 and tell him all the conspiracy theories.  I can just imagine what would happen to Georgie Boy since this terrorist and his other terrorist associates are so happy that they brought this country to its knees for a while.  Georgie Boy himself is not grateful that these terrorists who planned to also commit another atrocity in his own city didn't have the time to carry it out.  Georgie Boy might have been in the vicinity when it occurred.  Is it possible, Georgie Boy, that you have spent your own useless life blaming everything on the Jews instead of putting in some effort to better yourself?  Just be happy that the citizens of Los Angeles who actually pushed themselves to be able to get decent jobs are helping you out with having a subsidized apartment or else where would you be?  By the way, since Georgie Boy is so obsessed with talking about 9/11 instead of what is actually happening in the world of today, let us take a moment to remember Guy Tazzoli who just passed away.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/n...m-that-built-twin-towers-dies-at-90.html?_r=0


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## georgephillip (Feb 7, 2013)

My sympathy is reserved for the more deserving:

"Remember Building 7 is a non-partisan campaign led by 9/11 family members to raise awareness of the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 through television and other forms of advertising, and to shift public opinion such that the New York City Council and Manhattan District Attorney will be compelled to open an investigation into Building 7&#8242;s destruction."

Care to add your voice to the call for an independent investigation into WTC7's collapse?

Remember Building 7 | Stand with the 9-11 families demanding a NEW Building 7 investigation - About


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> My sympathy is reserved for the more deserving:
> 
> "Remember Building 7 is a non-partisan campaign led by 9/11 family members to raise awareness of the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 through television and other forms of advertising, and to shift public opinion such that the New York City Council and Manhattan District Attorney will be compelled to open an investigation into Building 7&#8242;s destruction."
> 
> ...


So why not come clean and tell us just why 9/11 is being brought up now?  You couldn't wait for next September to roll around before we got the same old stuff being dragged up once again.   However, Georgie Boy, if you want to keep blabbering about 9/11 while so much is happening these days, I guess if it gives you pleasure since there is very little in your sorry life, go for it.  Meanwhile, we who have been reading forums for a time have read all the things you are bringing up but many of us prefer to read the debunking of all your conspiracy theories.  I imagine you would rather everyone believes what you want them to believe, but it doesn't work that way.  Personally I don't think you have sympathy for anyone but your own lot in life. but it is enjoyable for you to drag up something that you feel  you can blame the U.S. and Israel for.  Meanwhile, don't get too obsessed with this since you do want to take a bus down to Chinatown and watch your fellow Angelenos celebrate the Year of the Snake.  Many of them are recent immigrants; and unlike you, really value being a citizen of this country.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...





> Did you ever do any research Tinnie on the debunking of these 9/11 myths?



I have.


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Well, Tinnie, if you really did some research on your magic computer that you claim isn't there, you would have read all the sites debunking what you crazy conspiracy theorists say happen.  So tell us, Tinnie, do the conspiracy theorists still think that it was a hoax that man actually landed on the moon?  By the way, why are you so interested in 9/11 at the moment?  Did your Hamas friends tell you to talk about it now instead of waiting until September?  Perhaps you really should be talking about this instead of obsessing what happened over ten years ago when your Muslim terrorist friends committed an atrocity right here in the U.S. and you are so willing not to accept that fact.
Click here for a report on how Hamas turns Palestinian children into terrorists (PDF


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## georgephillip (Feb 8, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > My sympathy is reserved for the more deserving:
> ...


Most citizens know all governments lie.
Lesser citizens salute the lies and valuable citizens don't.
Since you condemn Muslims for acts of terror which pale in comparison to those committed by your government, maybe you should learn Mandarin and move to Chinatown; maybe you'll find Gold Mountain?


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## RoccoR (Feb 8, 2013)

georgephillip,  

OK, what is up with this?



georgephillip said:


> ...   ...   ...
> Since you condemn Muslims for acts of terror which pale in comparison to those committed by your government, maybe you should learn Mandarin and move to Chinatown; maybe you'll find Gold Mountain?


*(QUESTION)*

Let's get to the point here.

What policy or program are you referring to here that is more terrorist than the terrorist?

AND, did you mean "Muslims" or Arab's or Palestinians?

Give me an example.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...





> By the way, why are you so interested in 9/11 at the moment?



Because that is the excuse given for the PATRIOT Act, the NDAA, the TSA, etc.. All that is hinged on the phony war on terror that is the result of 911.

When I saw those buildings collapse my first thought was that is impossible. Those buildings cannot collapse like that. So far none of the debunkers can adequately explain how the impossible happened.


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Imagine the weight of the top 25 stories of a 100 story building. Fly a plane into the 75th floor. See what happens when 7000 gallons of Jet A fuel does to the building structure after burning for several hours. Don't try to tell anyone that fire doesn't weaken the structure even if the steel doesn't melt. I know what I saw.


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


I guess in Georgie Boy's mind, the government is constantly lying to people.  It doesn't matter to him that the Muslims who actually planned this operation have admitted what they have done and are proud to have beern able to accomplish it, Georgie Boy seems loathe to give them credit and as per usual falls back on his usual "blame the U.S." for this atrocity.  Forget about me learning Mandarin.  Why don't you get yourself a part-time job so that you will have some money for entertainment and eating out.  When you get a few extra bucks, try Yang Chow in Chinatown.  I hear the slippery shrimp is very good.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...





> Don't try to tell anyone that fire doesn't weaken the structure even if the steel doesn't melt.



That wasn't my point.


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


WTF was the stupid point?


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


So tell us your point, Tinnie,  Are you trying to put the blame on others instead of your Muslim friends who carried out this atrocity?


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Start at 23:45.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FRC7TXtM7o]9/11 - Uncovering Ten Years Of Deception, Episode 3/5 - YouTube[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Feb 8, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Now tell me how "the Muslims who actually planned this operation" convinced NIST to acknowledge WTC7's 2.5 seconds of free fall acceleration, or, if you're not able to accomplish that, just Chow down some more slippery shrimp.

"Responding to the criticism, NIST in its final report issued in November 2008 did finally acknowledge that Building 7 descended at free fall.  According to NIST, 'This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories, or 32.0 meters (105 ft), the distance traveled between times t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s [a period of 2.25 seconds].'[v] 

"However, NIST did not attempt to explain how Building 7s free fall descent could have occurred."

Maybe you can find the answer at Little Joe's Cracker Emporium?

Remember Building 7 | Stand with the 9-11 families demanding a NEW Building 7 investigation - Free Fall Collapse


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Tinnie is trying so hard to let his Muslim friends off the hook.  We know that they committed 9/11, Tinnie.  They admitted it, so why can't you accept it.  Have you researched any of the sites debunking the myths of 9/11?  I doubt it very much.  Meanwhile, you and your like minded friends are bringing up the same old stuff that people just like you have brought up throughout the years.  I wonder if Tinnie is scratching his head trying to figure out how to blame the U.S. and Israel for all those Muslims who have been picked up by our Intelligence Agencies.  If Tinnie and company could find some way to exonerate the Muslim terrorists, they would certainly not hesitate to do so.


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## Hossfly (Feb 8, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Speaking of crackers, Georgie Boy, did you go for that cheap lunch at a Senior Center where the meals have so many calories which will hold needy people like you for the rest of the day.  So tell us, have you ever researched any of the sites debunking the myths which you seem obsessed with posting here, the same myths probably all of the readers have seen so many times before from those who are trying to take the blame away from the Muslims who committed the crime and place the blame on other parties.  I wonder why those like Georgie Boy can't wait until 9/11 until they start up with their conspiracy theories once again.


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## georgephillip (Feb 9, 2013)

Why don't you link to a site "debunking" WTC7's 2.5 seconds of free-fall acceleration, Poseur?


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## Hossfly (Feb 9, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Why don't you link to a site "debunking" WTC7's 2.5 seconds of free-fall acceleration, Poseur?


Is it really that difficult for you, Georgie Boy, to use Google to find these sites?  After all, you seem to find all the sites where you can blame America and Israel for something or other so it should be a snap to find out about how these myths were debunked.  I still would be interested in knowing if, like the other conspiracy theorists, you believe that it is a hoax that man stepped on the moon.


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## georgephillip (Feb 9, 2013)

Are you saying WTC7 did not experience conditions of free-fall acceleration?
Possibly in the same way heroic Jews did not machine gun life rafts launched by survivors of the USS Liberty?


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## Hossfly (Feb 9, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Are you saying WTC7 did not experience conditions of free-fall acceleration?
> Possibly in the same way heroic Jews did not machine gun life rafts launched by survivors of the USS Liberty?


Poor, pathetic Georgie Boy.  Nothing else is his life so he keeps on bringing up the same stuff which has been brought up for years.  Do you mind telling us, Georgie Boy, with all that is happening around the world, your needle is stuck on certain things like some Robot with a tape shoved in to keep repeating and  repeating?  Why not concentrate on the elections for mayor coming up in your own city.  Study the issues to see who you want to vote for and give it a rest for things that happened years ago which you feel have to be blamed on the U.S. and Israel.


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## georgephillip (Feb 9, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying WTC7 did not experience conditions of free-fall acceleration?
> ...


Why do you constantly deflect attention away from thread topics?
Are you running low on excuses for US and Israeli war crimes?
Care to post a rebuttal to WTC7's free fall or Liberty's perforated life rafts?


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## Hossfly (Feb 9, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Why are you constantly bringing up things like 9/11 and the Liberty?  Surely you must have posted ad nauseam about your favorite subjects on other forums throughout the years.  All you are showing us, Georgie Boy, is that you are not interested in what is happening throughout the world and are obsessed with blaming the U.S. and/or Israel for something.


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## irosie91 (Feb 9, 2013)

The WTC  collapsed in the same manner tall building collapse when their supporting 
structures   become critically weakened-----not quite free fall -----but approaching the acceleration upon its mass by gravity------what is your point?


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> The WTC  collapsed in the same manner tall building collapse when their supporting
> structures   become critically weakened-----not quite free fall -----but approaching the acceleration upon its mass by gravity------what is your point?



1500 architects and engineers say you are wrong.
Starts at 23:45

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FRC7TXtM7o]9/11 - Uncovering Ten Years Of Deception, Episode 3/5 - YouTube[/ame]


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## RoccoR (Feb 10, 2013)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Yes, OK.



P F Tinmore said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > The WTC  collapsed in the same manner tall building collapse when their supporting
> ...


*(QUESTION)*


Given the information presentation, what is it you deduce?  
Make your accusation?

Most Respectfully,
R


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Are you afraid of  questioning a government willing to cover up the murders of 34 members of its military and thousands of its civilians?


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Why don't you pose your conspiracy theories to your Congressional Rep and your 2 Senators? They weren't in on your charges. They'll be glad to hear from you. Isn't that what you elected them for?


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


I didn't waste my vote on any Republicans OR Democrats.
Why would you think they care about the deaths of innocent human beings?


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Perhaps I should say that you are a phony and really don't care about the death of decent human beings.  All you can think about is finding something to bash either America or Israel and could care less about those who have died.  Do you even care about those who are dying in Syria today and other Middle Eastern countries?  Of course you don't; it is more important for you to blabber on about 9/11, the Liberty, or anything else you feel you can blame others for probably what is the miserable lot in your own life.  Take a bus to Chinatown and see if you can forget about blaming others today and enjoy the festivities of the Year of the Snake.  You are very lucky that your weather is great today so take advantage of it and get some fresh air instead of being holed up in your little subsidized apartment.


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

I not only care about those dying in Syria and Egypt today, I still care about those who died in Vietnam two generations ago. Perhaps I should say while I never participated in the murder, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent Vietnamese, you did. Twice. 

PS Where did you get the idea the weather is great today in LA?
(You can't believe everything you read on the internet)


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## irosie91 (Feb 10, 2013)

you said nothing,   georgie


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> I not only care about those dying in Syria and Egypt today, I still care about those who died in Vietnam two generations ago. Perhaps I should say while I never participated in the murder, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent Vietnamese, you did. Twice.
> 
> PS Where did you get the idea the weather is great today in LA?
> (You can't believe everything you read on the internet)


I hope you don;t have a problem if many of the readers don't believe you about caring for people.  Talk is cheap.  So tell us, Georgie Boy, are any of the other forums you are on condemning what is happening in the Middle East as well as the Muslim countries in Southeast Asia where people are being harassed and killed in the name of their religion?  By the way, people can have friends all over this country (evidently you don't) who can E-mail about what is happening.  Are you trying to tell us that there is a blizzard in Los Angeles right now and you can't get out of your apartment to get down to Chinatown.  It might be a little cooler than you are used to so wear an extra sweater.
Chinatown Los Angeles


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > I not only care about those dying in Syria and Egypt today, I still care about those who died in Vietnam two generations ago. Perhaps I should say while I never participated in the murder, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent Vietnamese, you did. Twice.
> ...


Year of the Snake.
Sounds like your time has come, Hossie.


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Perhaps it is your time to come, Georgie Boy, when they find you at your computer after the neighbors have complained.


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Complained about what?


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Complained about what?


Why don't you tell us what you are talking about now, Georgie Boy?


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Complained about what?


Excuse me.  I thought you were complaining about something else like you usually do or that someone here complained about you..  The neighbors would be complaining about the smell because it appears you can't slither away from your computer.


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Complained about what?
> ...


What kind of "smell", Killer?
You're excused.


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Why, Georgie Boy,  I would imagine that when someone is cooped up every day in a little studio apartment, it does start to leave an odor.  Open the window once in a while or get some fresh air by taking a walk.


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## member (Feb 10, 2013)

*GEORGEPHILLIP: "I not only care about those dying in Syria and Egypt today, I still care about those who died in Vietnam two generations ago. Perhaps I should say while I never participated in the murder, maiming, and displacement of millions of innocent Vietnamese,* *you did*. *Twice."*








Don't you wish we (normal) people had a time machine....?  We can go back and correct past mistakes. But we don't have one.  We can only 'learn' (the hard way) from making mistakes.  It's not Hosses' fault about the Vietnam war -- and commenting on his '_*participation*_' in the _V_war -- _were you there with him _?  stop blaming him for the *murder and displacement* of _*'millions innocent vietnamese.'*_  Are you a bl_o_ke ?  Were you ever in the military ?  _just wondering _-- most people admire soldiers....

Ever see that movie "*THE DEAD ZONE*" - it's cool, go rent it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/movie?v=ReTfa04uDak&feature=mv_sr]The Dead Zone - YouTube[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing?
Many Americans choose not to participate in the US invasion and occupation of South Vietnam.
IMHO, Hossie backed the wrong side, probably in a misguided attempt at proving his courage.
There's little to admire in that.


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


It's too damn cold to open any windows, and some of my neighbors are bigger assholes than you are.


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing?
> Many Americans choose not to participate in the US invasion and occupation of South Vietnam.
> IMHO, Hossie backed the wrong side, probably in a misguided attempt at proving his courage.
> There's little to admire in that.


I think most of the readers can surmise that if an enemy were attacking out own shores, Little Georgie Boy, would be hiding under his bed shivering in fright.  So in order to prevent us from seeing what a coward he it, he just keeps on blaming the U.S. for something or other.  Meanwhile, there are millions of people around the world who would be quite happy to take Georgie's place here in America.
BTW, yellowbelly, my Regimental motto is Loyalty and Courage. They seem to be foreign with you.


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## georgephillip (Feb 10, 2013)

Loyalty to Wall Street?


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## member (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> *Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing ?*
> 
> 
> . . .*if it's absolutely 'nuttin' how come you  wasting YOUR bandwith reading it.*
> ...




war.  it stinks.  I _"ain't"_ no theologian (_yeah, yeah_) - but *before* the _V_WAR and the popular "draft-dodgers" of the 60's  --- men voluntarily enlisted in the military......they took the oath to protect and serve.  RE, HOSS: *"probably in a misguided attempt at proving his courage."*  Maybe this "Military" stuff is not your cup of tea, mate.  but 'we' need men/women to be in "Militaries."  it's a fact of life...you're british right ?  (_or wrong_) how much do you hate your British Soldiers....what about prince harry ....he loved it.  do you 'hate him' for 'killing people. (terrorists) ?

_*P.S.:*_


"*Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing"*?














- Cause I live in America

- Exercising my freedom to ...have fun

- My face and body isn't all covered up like some grim-reaper mummy, not allowed to friggen sneeze..........






_so there _. . .


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## MHunterB (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing?
> Many Americans choose not to participate in the US invasion and occupation of South Vietnam.
> IMHO, Hossie backed the wrong side, probably in a misguided attempt at proving his courage.
> There's little to admire in that.



Even less to admire in some weasel-like little coward griping about absolutely everything while living off the public titty-dole.


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## Hossfly (Feb 10, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Loyalty to Wall Street?


You know, Georgie Boy, if you had spent as much time bettering yourself in your younger days such as going to a community college, occupational center, or a trade-tech  school as you spend now on complaining, you wouldn't always be moaning and groaning about Wall Street and other things.


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## member (Feb 10, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing?
> ...



you _talkinta_ me?...hoss - _whatever_...so you're a "crumudgeon"  _lol_ - marg, _bubalah_.  ....are you british too ? you sound "like one."  _YOUSE_ don't sound like me..........you sound a little more pompous and uppity and snobbish and snooty and dull and........yeah, a *brit......*


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## georgephillip (Feb 12, 2013)

member said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > *Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing ?*
> ...


What makes you think I'm British?

I agree with your large expressions of "freedom" and fun, but I'm not sure if hereditary parasites like Harry or Dubya serve the best interests of either. In fact, I'm pretty sure Harry and Bush would choose their fortunes over freedom any day of the week.

Can you point out a war that either the US or Britain has been forced to fight since the end of WWII?

It's more likely that Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq were wars of choice engaged in to enhance the fortunes of "royals" like Harry and draft-dodgers like Bush.


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## georgephillip (Feb 12, 2013)

MHunterB said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Member...why do you waste so much bandwidth to say absolutely nothing?
> ...


I'm not stealing my neighbors land and water or using their children for target practice.
How about you?


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## georgephillip (Feb 12, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Loyalty to Wall Street?
> ...


*How are you defining "bettering yourself?"*

Would you be a better man if you hadn't killed for Wall Street in Vietnam?

"The My Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: th&#7843;m sát M&#7929; Lai [t&#688;&#592;&#771;&#720;m &#642;&#592;&#780;&#720;t m&#464;&#704; l&#592;&#720;j], [m&#464;&#704;l&#592;&#720;j] ( listen); /&#716;mi&#720;&#712;la&#618;/, /&#716;mi&#720;&#712;le&#618;/, or /&#716;ma&#618;&#712;la&#618;/)[1] was the Vietnam War mass murder of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of 'Charlie' Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. 

"*Most of the victims were women, children, infants, and elderly people*. 

"Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies were later found to be mutilated[2] and many women were allegedly raped prior to the killings.[3] 

"While 26 U.S. soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at M&#7929; Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest."

*Is Calley a better man than I am?*

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## RoccoR (Feb 12, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

This is clearly a demonstration where Israeli logic and political, economic and ecological prowess are flawed; seriously flawed.



georgephillip said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The Israelis have forgotten that with power, comes grave responsibilities.  And they have not lived up to the challenge.  The highest and most important responsibility of an Occupation Force Commander is the protection and care for the inhabitants.  Clearly the Israelis have, without question, failed in that regard.  This cannot be over stated.  They have adopted the principles of the Evil Prince John of the Robin Hood tales.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Lipush (Feb 12, 2013)

Yet we're alive (Thanks to our "bad politics")

So if it requires us to be considered as villians, so be it.


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## georgephillip (Feb 12, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> This is clearly a demonstration where Israeli logic and political, economic and ecological prowess are flawed; seriously flawed.
> 
> ...


Rocco...would it require a NATO version of Robin Hood to give a one-state solution in Palestine a fighting chance for survival?  If NATO (plus the Russians and Chinese???) joined US forces in a peacekeeping operation in Palestine that produced a nascent Semitic Union by 2040, would the Rockefeller and Rothschild fortunes be sufficient to cover its cost? Somehow, I don't see elected Republicans OR Democrats getting behind this idea. 'Not sure about Chuck Hagel...


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## irosie91 (Feb 12, 2013)

a united states of the MIDDLE EAST     governed by a constitution which ensures  equal rights and citizenship 
for all inhabitants ---complete religious freedom and 
and a completely secular legal system      and 
access to ALL   to  ALL sites considered "holy"   by any 
of the groups therein        It is the ONLY ANSWER


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## RoccoR (Feb 12, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Wow, I had to think about this.



georgephillip said:


> Rocco...would it require a NATO version of Robin Hood to give a one-state solution in Palestine a fighting chance for survival?  If NATO (plus the Russians and Chinese???) joined US forces in a peacekeeping operation in Palestine that produced a nascent Semitic Union by 2040, would the Rockefeller and Rothschild fortunes be sufficient to cover its cost? Somehow, I don't see elected Republicans OR Democrats getting behind this idea. 'Not sure about Chuck Hagel...


*(FIRST NOTION)*

It would take Robin Hood and the Merry Men, the Magnificent Seven, Team America, and the entire fleet from Battlestar Galactica, to make a "One-State Solution" work.

*(COMMENT)*

It is a self destructive notion.


If you try to maintain a Jewish State, then the "One State" will appear to the Palestinians as annexation; whether or not it is true.


If, on the other hand, you choose to make a single Palestinian State, then the "One State" appears to be at the expense of the Jewish States.
The Single State notion essentially resets the clock to the volatile period of 1947.  The Jewish Move to declare independence was, in its effect, the ignition of civil war; North/South - Jew/Arab; with a big Arab pile-on.  

The real complication comes philosophically.  If an attempt is made, then it "must" be made to work _(failure would not be an outcome option)_.  

If the Single State option collapses into war, and there is no Israel for the Jewish nation to retreat within, we risk another chapter in the history of the Western World allowing for their persecution.

If the Single State option collapses into war, and there is not territorial remainder for Palestinians to escape within, we risk another intense insurgency supported by all the adjacent nations of sympathy.​
There has to be a very high probability of success.  Otherwise, the adventure just turns in on itself and we wind-up back to the beginning.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Hossfly (Feb 12, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Nothing to do with me, yellowsteak.


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## georgephillip (Feb 12, 2013)

Stop being modest.
You volunteered twice to kill people who posed no threat to your country.
Hopefully you'll reap exactly what you've sown, Hero.


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## Hossfly (Feb 12, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Stop being modest.
> You volunteered twice to kill people who posed no threat to your country.
> Hopefully you'll reap exactly what you've sown, Hero.


Well it sure looks like you are reaping what you have sown.  Look at you, living in a small subsidized one-room apartment helped by the taxpayers of Los Angeles instead of attempting to better yourself when you were younger and probably living a hand to mouth existence right now.  There were trade-tech schools, occupational centers, and community colleges that you could have made the effort to go to, but you felt it much better not to do these things so that you could depend on others in later years and then sit back and whine about something or other.


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## georgephillip (Feb 13, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Stop being modest.
> ...


There has been no shortage of mistakes in my life.
Killing and raping innocent human beings are not among them.
Your taxpayer-subsidized retirement required you to commit war crimes.
Mind didn't.
Go whine to Rush.


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## Hossfly (Feb 13, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Yes, it must be nice to be a yellow-bellied coward who would not even defend an enemy attacking our shores.  Why not get yourself a part-time job, Georgie, to earn a couple of bucks so that life will be more enjoyable for you.  I think Georgie Boy resents the fact that people who have dedicated 20 years or more to the service of our country actually get a pension and then goes out after this service and gets a job to earn money for a decent retirement.  So tell us, Gerogie Boy, why you feel entitled to have a subsidized apartment in Los Angeles mainly paid for by the taxpayers in your city who work hard to earn a living?  Do you really think you deserve it?


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## RoccoR (Feb 13, 2013)

Hossfly,  

Lighten up.



Hossfly said:


> to be a yellow-bellied coward


*(COMMENT)*

This is uncalled-fore. 

We may not always agree --- but such emotional outburst and prejudices don't lend credibility to your position.   The discussion group is suppose to promote the ability to think and express ideas in a mature way.  We're not suppose to openly direct slander and fallacious insults against a fellow member; but rather, submit coherent challenges against his arguments _(if we disagree)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Hossfly (Feb 13, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> Hossfly,
> 
> Lighten up.
> 
> ...


That was about as coherent as one can get.


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## georgephillip (Feb 14, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


When was the last time an enemy attacked or shores?
You made a choice to prove your "courage" by murdering human beings who posed no threat to your country.
If that's heroic, you are welcome to it.


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## Hossfly (Feb 14, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Why, Georgie Boy, instead of whining while living in a subsidized apartment, you could have at least shown your courage by joining the Los Angeles Police Departmant or Sheriff's Department, or even the Los Angeles Fire Department.  I imagine you didn't want to face any danger so those careers were never thought of by you.  At least those who joined up for those careers and those who joined the military knew that they stood a good chance of facing danger in their careers.  Sorry if you did not have the backbone.  By the way, I don't think that Rocco, who is retired military and who came to this board recently, knows that you are the one who started calling servicemen "killers."  I don't think Rocco would enjoy hearing you calling him a "killer."


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## georgephillip (Feb 14, 2013)

What does my Section 8 apartment have to do with your decision to help murder, maim, displace, and incarcerate millions of Vietnamese civilians? How much "backbone" does it take to rape a 9 year-old?


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## Hossfly (Feb 14, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> What does my Section 8 apartment have to do with your decision to help murder, maim, displace, and incarcerate millions of Vietnamese civilians? How much "backbone" does it take to rape a 9 year-old?


I guess it was easier for you to figure out that you could have others support you when you retired (like getting a subsidized apartment) rather than put forth some effort to make a better future for yourself.  I imagine even a job as a dispatcher for the Police Department would have been too much for Georgie Boy.  So, Georgie Boy, are you actually trying to tell us that the American military has a habit of raping nine-year olds.  We leave that to your Muslim friends who seem to have no problem with that, nor do they seem to have a problem with murdering millions in the past and will continue to murder innocent people as we are seeing today.  Georgie Boy seems so stuck on the Viet Nam War like a silly robot with the same tape stuck in him which he sat out and probably ran to Canada rather than serve while he turns a blind eye to what his friends are doing in the world of today.  I think most people can figure out that Georgie Boy was a loser in life and so he has to find something to blame on others.  However, keep on spewing out about the Viet Nam War, Georgie Boy, if this is the way you get your jollies.  Meanwhile, you apparently will never be able to say "laissez les bons temps rouler" while sitting out in your one-room apartment in the Pico-Union area of Los Angeles.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 14, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> What does my Section 8 apartment have to do with your decision to help murder, maim, displace, and incarcerate millions of Vietnamese civilians? How much "backbone" does it take to rape a 9 year-old?



Uuuhh, deflection.


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## georgephillip (Feb 14, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > What does my Section 8 apartment have to do with your decision to help murder, maim, displace, and incarcerate millions of Vietnamese civilians? How much "backbone" does it take to rape a 9 year-old?
> ...


You seem to be saying you've earned your taxpayer-subsidized retirement by participating in war crimes. If that's the case, you're no better than those Muslims you can never stop whining about. In fact if you had been born a Muslim in Sudan, you would probably be killing, selling, and raping Christians just as enthusiastically as some of your "brothers" did in Vietnam:

"On January 21, 1971, a Vietnam veteran named Charles McDuff wrote a letter to President Richard Nixon to voice his disgust with the American war in Southeast Asia. McDuff had witnessed multiple cases of Vietnamese civilians being abused and killed by American soldiers and their allies, and he had found the U.S. military justice system to be woefully ineffective in punishing wrongdoers.

&#8220;'Maybe your advisors have not clued you in,' he told the president, '*but the atrocities that were committed in Mylai are eclipsed by similar American actions throughout the country*.' 

"His three-page handwritten missive concluded with an impassioned plea to Nixon to end American participation in the war."

Not to put too fine a point on it, Hossie, you're a punk ass-bitch who wouldn't know what to do in a fair fight beside whine for air support It's a damn shame you didn't come home in a bag before you could sire anymore ignorant slaves. 

Remember Pat Tillman Sr's words for Rummy?

*"Fuck you and yours."*

Excerpt: Kill Anything That Moves | Book Club | BillMoyers.com


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 15, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


See, Rocco, Gerogie Boy is back to his "killers" bit again.  Do you enjoy being called a "killer" because you were in the military?  I guess you are not aware of this, but it was Georgie Boy who started all of this by constantly referring to me and other military as "killers."


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## ima (Feb 15, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



People who join the army these days have no morals, they don't care who they kill, as long as it's someone. And mostly, it's people who can't make it in the real world, so they join up for some random killing and to take orders so they don't have to think too hard.


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## sealadaigh (Feb 15, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Stop being modest.
> You volunteered twice to kill people who posed no threat to your country.
> Hopefully you'll reap exactly what you've sown, Hero.



you really might want to check your fire there.


----------



## sealadaigh (Feb 15, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> Hossfly,
> 
> Lighten up.
> 
> ...



both of them should cut it out.


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## sealadaigh (Feb 15, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



my kid is the most gentle, most moral person i know. i mean, he amazes me...and i am not easily impressed. he is in the navy.

i was in the army. you have no idea what you are talking about.

man, you really are a bigot, aren't you. i made it ine in the real world.


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## Hossfly (Feb 15, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Frau Ima, haven't you pulled up your bloomers yet.  Of course Frau Ima would never think that people who join the service might want to do their patriotic duty for the country they love, ever since the beginning of this country.  Maybe Frau Ima is disappointed that he/she can joined a Muslim country's army where he/she will have the time of  his/her life killing those he/she hates.  In fact, Frau Ima would have loved to be wearing those shiny jackboots, but he/she was just born too late to do so.  Now he/she just wears them to the local Bund meeting. BTW I joined the Army in 1957, 55 years ago. That's hardly "these days."


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## RoccoR (Feb 15, 2013)

ima,  _et al,_

I, like a couple here, joined the military when it wasn't so popular.  It is not a career path for everyone.



ima said:


> People who join the army these days have no morals, they don't care who they kill, as long as it's someone. And mostly, it's people who can't make it in the real world, so they join up for some random killing and to take orders so they don't have to think too hard.


*(COMMENT)*

"they don't care who they kill, as long as it's someone"​
I don't think the rules of engagement  directives issued by competent military authority that delineate the circumstances and limitations under which United States forces will initiate and/or continue combat engagement with other forces encountered  allow that  I don't think they ever allowed that.

Those of us who join the Armed Forces, either in times gone bye, or today, answer our nations call to duty.  Congress and the Commander-inChief, say the word and we go where our nation needs us to be; to right wrongs, to liberate the oppressed, to protect those that need protected, shield that which is in the national interest, and to respond to aggression.  We all follow the same basic principles everywhere we go.  In addition to adhering to the principles of Military Necessity and Unnecessary Suffering (JP 1-04), we follow these two principles: 



			
				Legal Support to Joint Military Operations said:
			
		

> *Distinction.* This principle requires parties to a conflict to distinguish between combatants and noncombatants and to distinguish between military objectives and protected property and places. Parties to a conflict must direct their operations only against military objectives. Military objectives are combatants and those objects which by their nature, location, purpose, or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offer a definitive military advantage.
> 
> *Proportionality.* The principle of proportionality prohibits attacks that may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage expected to be gained. As such, this principle is only applicable when an attack may possibly affect civilians or civilian objects, and thereby, may cause collateral damage. Proportionality is a way in which a military commander must assess his or her obligations as to the principle of distinction, while avoiding actions that are indiscriminate.



Do we make mistakes?  Yes, it happens.  But we try to minimize those errors.  Are there ever bad mistakes made?  Yes, but we do our best, learning from our mistakes.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## ima (Feb 16, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> ima,  _et al,_
> 
> I, like a couple here, joined the military when it wasn't so popular.  It is not a career path for everyone.
> 
> ...



The last time it was righteous to join to fight was WWII. Anyone who joined on purpose after that has no morals, you said it yourself "Congress and the Commander-inChief, say the word and we go where our nation needs us to be", so you blindly go where the man tells you to without worrying whether it's right or wrong. Like Iraq and Afghanistan, to name the 2 most recent. Sorry, but I've just lost all respect for your posts because you can't tell and/or don't know and/or don't care what's right and what's wrong. You're into random killing of people you don't know and who never did anything to you.


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## georgephillip (Feb 16, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Stop being modest.
> ...


If you knew then what you know now, would you have served in Vietnam?


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## georgephillip (Feb 16, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> ima,  _et al,_
> 
> I, like a couple here, joined the military when it wasn't so popular.  It is not a career path for everyone.
> 
> ...


Rocco...do you find any fault with the following definition of terrorism?

"The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

U.S. Department of Defense Definition of Terrorism


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 16, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Yes, --- well, this is really a CJCS Joint Pub 1-02 operational definition for military purposes.  The FBI has their operational definition as well as DHS.



georgephillip said:


> Rocco...do you find any fault with the following definition of terrorism?
> 
> "The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."
> 
> U.S. Department of Defense Definition of Terrorism


*(COMMENT)*

It is not a universal definition; or, a definition in depth.  How and why you use the phrase makes a difference.

18 USC § 2331 - Definitions
Defines

&#8220;international terrorism&#8221;
&#8220;act of war&#8221;
&#8220;domestic terrorism&#8221; 
and several other key definitions

22 USC § 2656f(d) - Definitions
Defines

&#8220;international terrorism&#8221; 
&#8220;terrorism&#8221; 
&#8220;terrorist group&#8221; 
&#8220;territory&#8221; 
&#8220;territory of the country&#8221;
&#8220;terrorist sanctuary&#8221;
&#8220;sanctuary&#8221; 
and several other key definitions

50 USC § 1801 - Definitions
Defines 

&#8220;Foreign power&#8221;
&#8220;Agent of a foreign power&#8221;
&#8220;International terrorism&#8221;
&#8220;Sabotage&#8221; 
&#8220;Foreign intelligence information&#8221;
&#8220;Electronic surveillance&#8221; 
&#8220;Weapon of mass destruction&#8221;
and several other key definitions.

Depending on the topic, intent and specificity, depends on the definition you use.  When specifically dealing with "War & National Defense" - one generally used 50 USC § 1801.  When dealing with Foreign Relations and International or Global generalities, one generally used 22 USC § 2656f(d).  And, if you are looking a criminal prosecution one uses Title 18 (Federal Criminal Code).

So it depends.  You use the definition to fit the context of the discussion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 17, 2013)

Rocco...do you think the US invasion and occupation of South Vietnam qualified as terrorism?

"The My Lai Massacre (Vietnamese: th&#7843;m sát M&#7929; Lai [t&#688;&#592;&#771;&#720;m &#642;&#592;&#780;&#720;t m&#464;&#704; l&#592;&#720;j], [m&#464;&#704;l&#592;&#720;j] ( listen); /&#716;mi&#720;&#712;la&#618;/, /&#716;mi&#720;&#712;le&#618;/, or /&#716;ma&#618;&#712;la&#618;/)[1] was the Vietnam War mass murder of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of 'Charlie' Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. 

"Most of the victims were women, children, infants, and elderly people. 

"Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies were later found to be mutilated[2] and many women were allegedly raped prior to the killings.[3] 

"While 26 U.S. soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at M&#7929; Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest."

"Specifically, were the above members of "Charlie" Company state-sponsored terrorists?
Do you suspect your opinion would be different if you had been born in Vietnam?

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ima (Feb 17, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> reabhloideach said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The ONLY good thing to ever come out of Nam were Thai Sticks! Yum!


----------



## SherriMunnerlyn (Feb 17, 2013)

ima said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > reabhloideach said:
> ...



I do not even know what that is.


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 17, 2013)

SherriMunnerlyn said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Thai sticks were a relatively potent form of cannabis dipped in opium or hashish oil.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 17, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

A little off-topic, but ---> I'll answer.



georgephillip said:


> do you think the US invasion and occupation of South Vietnam qualified as terrorism?


*(COMMENT)*

The US entering Vietnam was not an "Invasion" or "Occupation."  US involvement came after the 1954 Geneva Accords which divided Indochina and became Vietnam under President Diem.  While my father was there in earlier times, during WWII, helping support Ho Chi Minh against the Japanese Occupation,  the post - Gulf of Tonkin operation was at the request of the RVN Government.

US Forces in Vietnam was not a case of the US attempting to transcend national boundaries to intimidate or coerce, a people or a nation.  It was the case of a Cold War confrontation between Communism and Democracy.



georgephillip said:


> "Specifically, were the above members of "Charlie" Company state-sponsored terrorists?


*(COMMENT)*

In any extended environment _(years)_ where combat is a daily occurrence, there are bound to be incidence of a heinous and very tragic nature _(malum per se)_.  These are not examples of a state intended to coerce or to the local population in the pursuit of political, religious, or ideological goals.  This is a case of a large scale criminal action where the command lost control of the good order and discipline of the unit; and not the purpose of the major commander's campaign intent.

For terrorism to work, someone has to be left alive to be coerced and do the bidding of the terrorist; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion.  The event of My Lai, if anything, made the US Military closely examine the command and control of its forces. 

The intent of the military operation in question was seek-out and engage enemy forces.  It was not a campaign to use force and violence against the indigenous population in order to attain political goals, religious conversion, or a change in the ideological in nature of the hamlet through intimidation, coercion or instilling fear.



georgephillip said:


> Do you suspect your opinion would be different if you had been born in Vietnam?


*(COMMENT)*

Probably not.  The Vietnamese people saw much worse over a much longer period of time, committed by multiple forces.  My Lai was a much bigger event for America than it was for the Vietnamese.  It showed that America is not always the good guys.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 17, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> A little off-topic, but ---> I'll answer.
> 
> ...


Rocco...

"The Geneva Conference (April 26 &#8211; July 20, 1954[1]) was a conference which took place in Geneva, Switzerland, whose purpose was to attempt to find a way to unify Vietnam and discuss the possibility of restoring peace in Indochina.The Soviet Union, the United States, France, the United Kingdom, and the People&#8217;s Republic of China were participants throughout the whole conference..."

What moral authority did the Soviet Union, US, France, and the UK have to authorize a government in Vietnam, particularly one presided over by a corrupt puppet like Ngo Dinh Diem?

Depending upon how you define "invasion" (A military action consisting of armed forces of one geopolitical entity entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of conquering territory or altering the established government.) it seems pretty clear half-a-million Americans didn't suddenly decide to vacation in Vietnam. 

It seems equally clear they were there to alter the government preferred by the vast majority of Vietnamese unless you think Diem would have defeated Ho in a free election?(which Diem refused to participate in, as I recall).

Geneva Conference (1954) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 17, 2013)

Mr R----you write well.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 17, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

These are all good questions.  But it has nothing to do with terrorism.



georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

You are trying to apply little definitions to a set of political issue that just happen to focus on Vietnam.

This was a much bigger set of power plays between the various global powers.  Interventionism was the order of the day.  In the US, the "Whiz Kids" wisdom had the influence.  And their legacy lives on even today.

Indochina was a French Colony, the US was the Principle Allied Power that liberated Indochina from the Japanese, --- _hell - my Dad and I use to laugh at the fact that his unit dropped supplies in and a doctor for Ho Chi Minh, a US ally during WWII, and 2 decades later I go to help fight his forces)_.  The Soviets and the UK were the other two Principle Allied Powers.  Who were they and why were they there deciding the fate of Indochina --- well they ruled the day.  And each was vying for influence and power.

Was it right?  Well I don't know.  What I came to learn was that Vietnam was going to turn Communist no matter what we did.  The "Cold War" was what it was.

Remember, the US has an interventionist backbone to its foreign policy.

_Persuasive in Peace --- Invincible in War_

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 18, 2013)

Rocco...that "interventionist backbone" to US foreign policy seems to reward those who invest in war and cripple many of those who actually fight the wars. Do you think it's likely that PTSD comes from witnessing or participating in war crimes? Have you ever read the Pentagon's "Vietnam War Crimes Working Group Collection?" 

"To call it, you know, an information treasure trove is the wrong phrase. It was a horror trove. These were reports of massacres, murders, mutilation, torture. 

"And these were investigations that were carried out by the U.S. military during the war. 

"A collection of documents called the Vietnam War Crimes Working Group Collection. 

"And this was a task force that was set up in the Pentagon. And it was designed to track war crimes cases in the wake of the exposure of the My Lai Massacre."

Nick Turse and the Real Vietnam War - Truthdig


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 18, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> These are all good questions.  But it has nothing to do with terrorism.
> 
> ...





> What I came to learn was that Vietnam was going to turn Communist no matter what we did.



BTW, whatever happened to that "domino theory" that the war mongers were trying to sell us?


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 18, 2013)

I think the (South) Vietnamese invaded Orange County (California).
Stay tuned.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> I think the (South) Vietnamese invaded Orange County (California).
> Stay tuned.


No way, George. It was an invasion by an army of crackheads.


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> I think the (South) Vietnamese invaded Orange County (California).
> Stay tuned.


I guess if you were fortunate enough to have a car, you could have gone down to Little Saigon and celebrated the New Year with them.  You do miss out on a lot of fun.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICvzOo2uY0]Little Saigon New Years 2013 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 18, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

Interesting!



georgephillip said:


> Rocco...that "interventionist backbone" to US foreign policy seems to reward those who invest in war and cripple many of those who actually fight the wars. Do you think it's likely that PTSD comes from witnessing or participating in war crimes?


*(COMMENT)*

Post-traumatic Stress Disorder _(PTSD)_ is in the family of "anxiety" attacks.  In my family, it is most associated with the gentler gender and not _(so much)_ the guys.  My experience has been, that if you were not subject to "anxiety attacks" before Vientman _(Iraq, Pakestan, or Yemen)_, the exposure of the deployment wouldn't have a debilitating effect after the deployment.  "Fear" and "shock" are different things. 



georgephillip said:


> Have you ever read the Pentagon's "Vietnam War Crimes Working Group Collection?"
> 
> "To call it, you know, an information treasure trove is the wrong phrase. It was a horror trove. These were reports of massacres, murders, mutilation, torture.
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

I have never read any works by Dr Nick Turse.  He sells books on the plane of emotion.  He writes provocatively on controversial subjects.  While he claims to be a "investigative journalist, historian and essayist," he is just a book _(quasi-documentary)_ author --- writing about a subject and time for which he has no personal experience.   People that lean towards favoring Anti-government stances, people holding anti-war postures, and people who are enamored by conspiracy theories tend to be more attracted to his writing.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Rocco...that "interventionist backbone" to US foreign policy seems to reward those who invest in war and cripple many of those who actually fight the wars. Do you think it's likely that PTSD comes from witnessing or participating in war crimes? Have you ever read the Pentagon's "Vietnam War Crimes Working Group Collection?"
> 
> "To call it, you know, an information treasure trove is the wrong phrase. It was a horror trove. These were reports of massacres, murders, mutilation, torture.
> 
> ...


SFB, you can ask Seal, who never participated in war crimes, what helps cause PTSD. I have had PTSD since November 1965 and will be medically treated for life. And in 2 years of combat and 13 months on the Korean DMZ, I personally have never seen an American take a civilian life. Your charges are false and I hope you air those charges to a combat veteran.


----------



## ima (Feb 18, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > I think the (South) Vietnamese invaded Orange County (California).
> ...



We've been invaded by Mexico and they're trying to destroy us with meth. It seems to be working. Stay tuned.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 18, 2013)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Yeah, you got me there.



P F Tinmore said:


> BTW, whatever happened to that "domino theory" that the war mongers were trying to sell us?


*(COMMENT)*

This is a case where the science was right, and all the calculations and formulae made sense.  Come to find out, they were using imaginary numbers.  Poof!

And for my next trick, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat...




Must have been the wrong hat!

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 18, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Rocco...that "interventionist backbone" to US foreign policy seems to reward those who invest in war and cripple many of those who actually fight the wars. Do you think it's likely that PTSD comes from witnessing or participating in war crimes? Have you ever read the Pentagon's "Vietnam War Crimes Working Group Collection?"
> ...


Define "civilian."


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 18, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Interesting!
> 
> ...


"Advancing in small squads, the men of the unit shot chickens as
they scurried about, pigs as they bolted, and cows and water buffalo
lowing among the thatch-roofed houses. 

"They gunned down old
men sitting in their homes and children as they ran for cover. 

"They tossed grenades into homes without even bothering to look inside. An
officer grabbed a woman by the hair and shot her point-blank with a
pistol. 

"A woman who came out of her home with a baby in her arms
was shot down on the spot. *As the tiny child hit the ground, another
GI opened up on the infant with his M-16 automatic rifle.*

"Over four hours, members of Charlie Company methodically
slaughtered more than five hundred unarmed victims, killing some
in ones and twos, others in small groups, and collecting many more
in a drainage ditch that would become an infamous killing ground.

"They faced no opposition. 

"They even took a quiet break to eat lunch
in the midst of the carnage. 

"Along the way, they also raped women
and young girls, mutilated the dead, systematically burned homes,
and fouled the area's drinking water."

Rocco... do you think those who applied the "mere gook rule" in Pinkville were subject to anxiety attacks before their exposure to deployment? How about afterwards? "Fear" and "shock" are much different things to victims and perpetrators. I'm pretty sure you and your dad wouldn't have found much to laugh about if you had been on the receiving end of US pro-war postures.

"Kill Anything That Moves" Military Doctrine Began in Vietnam


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 18, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

You are confusing global assessments and individual events.



georgephillip said:


> I'm pretty sure you and your dad wouldn't have found much to laugh about if you had been on the receiving end of US pro-war postures.


*(COMMENT)*

There is a huge difference between laughing at incomprehensible foreign policy shifts over time at the global or macro level, and the individual assessment of actual event that are personal in their impact at the micro level.

Just as scientist have shown that deeply religious people have brain activity that is different from those that have no religious belief; so it is with different people with different experiences in combat --- or other highly volatile environments. 

Whether it is a US bullet  --- or a Vietnamese, Yemenis, Iraqi or Afghani Bullet, makes no difference.  When it hits your armor or zooms by your head, the fear and anxiety is the same; "US pro-war postures not withstanding."  It doesn't change based on the source, it point of origin, it politics or political policy.  The anxiety and fear induced is exactly the same.

War is nothing more than the outcome of a failure in diplomacy.  Whether it was WWI, WWII, Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, Vietnam, Yemen, where ever, international conflict is not an uncommon net result when diplomacy fails.  The difference to us is the relative impact.  There are only a few people sensitive enough that develop the scope and magnitude of anxiety that is generated by the fear and shock from reading about combat, as distinguished by the impact one experiences from being in combat.



georgephillip said:


> Rocco... do you think those who applied the "mere gook rule" in Pinkville were subject to anxiety attacks before their exposure to deployment?


*(COMMENT)*

Yes, certainly before and after.

Just as paratroopers experience anxiety before a jump, or the service member in an escape chamber has controlled panic as the ice cold water floods in, or each time you enter a battle-space anticipating fire, they is anxiety and the unmistakeable pangs of fear.  It's all about how we handle these feelings that makes a difference.  

When riot crowd behavior takes over from the discipline of unit behavior and cohesion, it is often described as irrational, instinctive, animalistic, or horrific, driven by emotions that are disconnected from social standards we consider reasonable, acceptable and moral.



georgephillip said:


> How about afterwards? "Fear" and "shock" are much different things to victims and perpetrators.


*(COMMENT)*

The behavior you noted are not much different from the average people becoming involved in a riot at a soccer match, the lethality because of the tools at hand were different.  But it must be remembered that most of the atrocities reported start similarly.

The victims are, like any victim, traumatized.  

*(QUESTION) * 

What is the point you are trying to make?  That war is bad?  Yes , of course it is.  Is it that America is the only country that has been involved in such incidents?  Probably not.  These types of incidents pre-date Alexander the Great.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 18, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Look up the word in a dictionary, Georgie Boy.  You seem to be stuck on  Viet Nam like nothing else ever happened in this world.  What stopped you from joining the Coast Guard?  Weren't you even brave enough for that?  Why not get out of your little apartment once in a while so that you can think of other things besides the same tired things you keep on bringing up like the Viet Nam War?  Or are you even afraid to be out on the street and feel so safe staying in, maybe hiding under your bed at night.


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 19, 2013)

What was the clinical term for PTSD in 1965, Hossie?
Whatever it was, you got off easy considering the misery you helped inflict upon millions of Asians.
BTW, just because you never personally witnessed any Americans taking a civilian's life, doesn't mean that millions of Americans haven't done exactly that. Oh yeah, what's that "combat" vet going to do to me for exercising my First Amendment rights, shoot my dog or rape my mother?


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 19, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> What was the clinical term for PTSD in 1965, Hossie?
> Whatever it was, you got off easy considering the misery you helped inflict upon millions of Asians.
> BTW, just because you never personally witnessed any Americans taking a civilian's life, doesn't mean that millions of Americans haven't done exactly that. Oh yeah, what's that "combat" vet going to do to me for exercising my First Amendment rights, shoot my dog or rape my mother?


The combat vet will shake your hand and give you a big kiss.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 19, 2013)

georgephillip; _et al,_

I think you tend to over exaggerate.



georgephillip said:


> What was the clinical term for PTSD in 1965, Hossie?
> Whatever it was, you got off easy considering the misery you helped inflict upon millions of Asians.
> BTW, just because you never personally witnessed any Americans taking a civilian's life, doesn't mean that millions of Americans haven't done exactly that. Oh yeah, what's that "combat" vet going to do to me for exercising my First Amendment rights, shoot my dog or rape my mother?


*(COMMENT)*

Whatever your opinion is, as to what the US did in Asia (all interventions) it is but a drop in the bucket compared to what they did to themselves in just the 20th Century.  The Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia was responsible for millions of deaths all by itself.  The First Chinese Civil War took 5 million and the Second Chinese Civil War took another 2.5 million.  The Korean War took another 3 million between the two Koreas and Chinese.  The numbers are so big for the Japanese invasion of China, no one really knows; but, over 142,000 deaths were recorded in the occupation of Nanking alone. 

Everyone wants a perfect world.  Well, it won't come in our life time.  Wars are terrible things.  But it will be a terrible thing that will always be with us.  In all recorded human history, historians estimate that about 5% was without war.  In US history, we've only had 29 years without war.

That is the historical nature of humanity.  We all may recognize how utterly unproductive that is, but in the end, wars will erupt.  And it is unreasonable to assume otherwise.  And with those wars, there will always be those unpleasant events that disturb people.  

While there is nothing wrong with wanting peace, it is almost impossible to have a civilized war.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 19, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip; _et al,_
> 
> I think you tend to over exaggerate.
> 
> ...


Rocco...why not start with taxing war into extinction?
How about a 100% tax on all war-related profits after the first innocent civilian dies in any war.
(We could also draft the richest 1% and send them into harm's way first)


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 19, 2013)

georgephillip; _et al,_

Unacceptable risk.



georgephillip said:


> Rocco...why not start with taxing war into extinction?
> How about a 100% tax on all war-related profits after the first innocent civilian dies in any war.
> (We could also draft the richest 1% and send them into harm's way first)


*(COMMENT)*

All you do in this case is make it impractical and unaffordable to maintain a defense program.  And while that might suit your agenda for the US, it would merely transfer the industry off-shore, prevent the US from maintaining a standing force, and raise its vulnerability and susceptibility to external aggression, coercion and political intimidation.

In effect such a policy would make it impractical "provide for the common defence" under The Constitution.

No other nation in the world is going to unilaterally disarm.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ima (Feb 19, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip; _et al,_
> 
> Unacceptable risk.
> 
> ...



We need such a big army because... um... let me see... um... because of all the countries that are attacking us?

At last count, there were.. um... um... none?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 19, 2013)

********************  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^              **********************
    ************** 
                      *****
                            ******
                                   ******
                                              !
                                               !
                                                !
                                                &###
                                                      ######
               meteorites threaten 
                        world peace ---as represented by that black rock-- 
                                   over-------well.........you know where


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 19, 2013)

ima, _et al,_

You have it exactly backwards!  



ima said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip; _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

No one attacks us because ... we have such a lethal armed force.

Persuasive in Peace --- Invincible in War​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman (Feb 19, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> ima, _et al,_
> 
> You have it exactly backwards!
> 
> ...



Rocco, ima is a young idiot who is constantly calling for Israel to be nuked. You can't reason with him, best to ignore him.


----------



## sealadaigh (Feb 19, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> These are all good questions.  But it has nothing to do with terrorism.
> 
> ...



i think i got you there. i am growing up in poitiers in '54 and about six y.o.asking my dad why my best french friend is crying and then, about fouteen years later, i am out in the middle of some jungle eatin' canned pears and watching illum, and finally understanding his answer.

the pears were delicious and the night was pretty.


----------



## georgephillip (Feb 20, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip; _et al,_
> 
> I think you tend to over exaggerate.
> 
> ...


What level of civilization do you expect from the greatest purveyor of violence on this planet? The same level Curtis LeMay rained on Japan during WWII?

"The first pathfinder airplanes arrived over Tokyo just after midnight on March 10. Following British bombing practice, they marked the target area with a flaming 'X.' In a three-hour period, the main bombing force dropped 1,665 tons of incendiary bombs, killing 100,000 civilians, destroying 250,000 buildings, and incinerating 16 square miles (41 km2) of the city. 

"Aircrews at the tail end of the bomber stream reported that the stench of burned human flesh permeated the aircraft over the target..."

"Precise figures are not available, but the firebombing campaign against Japan, directed by LeMay between March 1945 and the Japanese surrender in August 1945, may have killed more than 500,000 Japanese civilians and left five million homeless."

Of those 3 million Koreans who died during the US invasion of South Korea, a sizeable percentage perished from the same stone age civility that LeMay bestowed upon Jap civilians. Other US generals laughed about turning cities and villages into rubble, then returning to turn rubble into pebbles, and finally, turning pebbles into dust, along with millions of Korean civilians.

Makes me wonder how much money Wall Street earned from that "war".

Pol Pot was a rebel with no cause and no base until Henry Kissinger ordered the US carpet bombing of Cambodia's countryside, killing hundreds of thousands and making millions of homeless refugees anxious for revenge.

Surely, you've noticed, neither the Japanese, nor the Chinese, nor the Vietnamese, nor the Koreans were killing and raping the "gentler gender" on your side of the Pacific? Peace will come when it's more profitable than war, and when a generation of young men arrive who won't kill innocent human beings for money and "glory."


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip; _et al,_
> ...


Right on! I personally got rich on the $200 a month I was making at the time and my "glory" was being able to take a bath at least every 2 weeks and have a hot meal, Benedict.


----------



## ima (Feb 20, 2013)

toastman said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > ima, _et al,_
> ...



Toast is still delusional I see, I've said about a thousand times that Israel should make peace BEFORE they get nuked. Because there's a real possibility of that happening sometime in the future.
I never asked anyone to pretty please nuke Israel.

As for you roc, Canada has virtually NO army and no one attacks them. 
The US army hasn't fought one righteous war since WWII. And has lost them all anyways with their "lethal armed force". We got our ass kicked in Nam, Korea, by Iran (twice), in Lebanon, Somalia, FUCKING SOMALIA!!!! Iraq and Afghanistan. Did I miss any? So why do we need a big army again? So we can simultaneously lose as many wars as possible?


----------



## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


You got an absolute -0- (zero) on your  exam, Blivet. I never lost any damn war and the US hasn't either. For example, North Vietnam was on the verge of *surrender* when the bleeding heart liberals forced a withdrawal from SE Asia. I won't even bother to cite other examples but they all follow the same line. As for WWII, we won that war but our bleeding heart liberals kept us from marching to Moscow to finish the job. Patton kept German Divisions armed so they could fight with us to mop up Russia. You can read all about it in Gen. S.L.A Marshall's official historical books. Now, raus!


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## ima (Feb 20, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



We LOST in Nam because we had fat chunks of shit like you fighting for us.


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## Hossfly (Feb 20, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Dry up, you little snot.


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## georgephillip (Feb 23, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip; _et al,_
> 
> Unacceptable risk.
> 
> ...


Rocco...aren't you conflating "defense" and "war?"
Defending the US homeland hasn't required a war since 1945, at least.
It makes more sense to defend this country from Wall Street and Pentagon corruption, IMHO.
Taxing war into extinction wouldn't prohibit all defense spending, but it would trim the profit margins found in imperial projects like the US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Who knows, maybe more of America's richest 1% would have a Pat Tillman experience?


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## georgephillip (Feb 23, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


You got $200 and two baths a month so that Henry Kissinger and his liege lord Rockefeller could earn million$ from your "heroics." Congratulations, Rambo.


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## sealadaigh (Feb 23, 2013)

ima said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...




are you really that colossally stupid?


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## georgephillip (Feb 23, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Why don't you tell us where you got the idea that "North Vietnam was on the verge of surrender"?
Then explain how many more women and children would've had to die in Vietnam before Kissinger and Rockefeller would've accepted Ho's surrender? How many women and children in your country or family would you have helped murder to effect said surrender? What makes your women and children worth more than those in Vietnam, or Iraq, or Afghanistan? BTW, the Russians killed a hell of a lot more Nazis than Patton did; if Hitler doesn't invade Russia, Patton come home in a box.


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## ima (Feb 23, 2013)

reabhloideach said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


I'm too stupid to understand what you just said, that good enough? 

Canada has virtually no army: fact. The US has more POLICE than Canada has soldiers.
No one's ever attacked Canada except the US, and that was 200 years ago: fact.


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## toastman (Feb 23, 2013)

Well that's funny, I live in Canada and I know several people in the army


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## Hossfly (Feb 23, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


I must have read about it on a Wheaties box. What a maroon.


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## georgephillip (Feb 23, 2013)

Hossie...let's see if you can manage to answer a simple moral question:

Are American lives worth more than Vietnamese lives?


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## Hossfly (Feb 23, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossie...let's see if you can manage to answer a simple moral question:
> 
> Are American lives worth more than Vietnamese lives?


Silly question. We were S Vietnam's ally.

Georgie Boy's needle seems to be stuck on the Viet Nam War; and because of that, he is not paying attention to what is actually going on in the world now.  Maybe when you are stuck in a tiny apartment, you don't get enough fresh air to clear your brains.  Meanwhile, Georgie Boy would probably call this horse a war criminal for helping our military in Korea.  [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=YIo3ZfA9da0]Sgt Reckless - Korean War Horse Hero - YouTube[/ame]


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## RoccoR (Feb 23, 2013)

georgephillip; _et al,_

No, I don't think so.  The difference is in "intent" and the extension of "influence."



georgephillip said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Unacceptable risk.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Profit is a necessary evil of capitalism and the insistent climb up Malsow's Ladder of Hierarchy.   It is part of the human condition set in our society as a species.

Taxation is a means of support for the infrastructure framework supporting the society.  While it can have adverse effects in braking aspects of the economy, that is not its intended goal; nor should it be an intended purpose.  The maintenance and advancement of the infrastructure should, to the maximum extent possible, be beneficial to the health and prosperity of the culture, and society as a whole.  Not a braking mechanism.

The US doesn't have "imperial" aims; that is, the US does not have the intent to establish an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship with other nations through military might --- using the concept of domination and subordination as a foundation.   However, it was _(for a short time)_ a political-military hegemony; that is to say, that after WWII, it had a huge "sphere of influence" _(hence the concept of a "superpower")_; however, the US is on the downward slope on that curve of power, lacking the resources and economic might to maintain the infrastructure that powers scientific and technical advancements that keep a nation strong above all other in commerce and industry.

The US introduction into Afghanistan was originally a move to curb Soviet expansionism.  However, after the events of 911, direct intervention was required as a retaliatory measure against the aggression of a non-state actor _(al-Qaeda)_ being sheltered by the Afghan Regime _(the Taliban)_.  This differs significantly from the intervention in Iraq which was a hegemonic move to establish an umbrella of influence over the entire Middle East/Persian Gulf Region, caught in the turmoil of multiple destabilizing influences; tackling several several issues at once _(only one of which was Palestine)_.

I was a soldier for a major portion of my life _(having retired as a result of a permanent disability)_.  No true soldiers want anyone to have the "Pat Tillman experience;" socio-economics the least of all in the universe of reasons.   Again, life as the currency means for another form of taxation, is not a braking mechanism.   

BTW:  There will always be rich, powerful, and influential in society, above and beyond the less affluent; just as there will always be the righteous and criminal.  They are just a few of the facets that shape both America, and the developing nations of the world.  If everyone was affluent, then "affluence" would have no meaning, everyone would be in the middle class. 

Most Respectfully,
R


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## georgephillip (Feb 23, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossie...let's see if you can manage to answer a simple moral question:
> ...


Hossie...what threat did the Koreans present to the US after WWII?
Are you actually arrogant enough to believe they needed our help to reunite their country?

Maybe Sgt. Reckless should've known Yuh Woon-Hyung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia?


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## Hossfly (Feb 23, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Yessiree, that horse Reckless (or any other horse used  by the military of any country for that matter) was certainly braver than Georgie Boy could ever be.  If you are now obsessed with the Korean War also, Georgie Boy, why not hike on down to Koreatown since you live so close and ask the South Koreans there if they were grateful for having an international force helping them out against the Communists.  When you get back, tell us what they said.  See, you can get it from the horse's mouth so to speak and you wouldn't have to run to your beloved Wikipedia.  Maybe they will even treat you to a good Korean BBQ meal.  Actually I think that Georgie Boy and Kim Jong-II could become the best of friends if only they had the chance to meet each other.


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Feb 24, 2013)

toastman said:


> Well that's funny, I live in Canada and I know several people in the army



Can you read, she said virtually no army? I thought you were about 12, have you not learned what the word virtually means in school yet?


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## SherriMunnerlyn (Feb 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



The fact they are here and not Korea tells us all we need to know about the fabulous conditions in Korea.


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## georgephillip (Feb 24, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip; _et al,_
> 
> No, I don't think so.  The difference is in "intent" and the extension of "influence."
> 
> ...


Rocco...while the rich may or may not be always among us, every government yet devised has existed to serve their interests first and foremost. From Adam Smith's "principle architects of society" (the "merchants and manufacturers who make certain their interests are most peculiarly attended to") to today's global corporate elite, every government serves the economic interests of those who profit most from war and the private creation of money at interest. 

The solution seems fairly straightforward: erect a wall between private wealth and its influence on government, or tax the rich into extinction before their innate dependence on war exterminates this specie.

Education is Ignorance, by Noam Chomsky (Excerpted from Class Warfare)


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## georgephillip (Feb 24, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


"Yuh Woon-Hyung (May 25, 1886 &#8211; July 19, 1947) was a Korean politician who argued *that Korean independence was essential to world peace*, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independent reunification of Korea since its national division in 1945.

"His pen-name was Mongyang (&#47805;&#50577;; &#22818;&#38525, the Hanja for 'dream' and 'light.' He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history in that he is revered in both South and North Korea."

Yuh felt it was fundamentally undemocratic for Stalin and FDR to determine the rate of Korean reunification in 1945. What about you? (ask Reckless if still brainwashed)


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## RoccoR (Feb 24, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

The idea sounds both noble in its purpose, and sound in its suggested implementation.  But it is neither.



georgephillip said:


> Rocco...while the rich may or may not be always among us, every government yet devised has existed to serve their interests first and foremost. From Adam Smith's "principle architects of society" (the "merchants and manufacturers who make certain their interests are most peculiarly attended to") to today's global corporate elite, every government serves the economic interests of those who profit most from war and the private creation of money at interest.


*(COMMENT)*

"Maximize the Wealth of the Shareholder!"  That is what business does.  That is what the foundation of the strategy is based upon.  That is how they make money.  War is just one of many economic environments that sets the conditions for profit.  The Goldman Sach raping of its clients in the housing market was just one example; but much different from the defense industry.  Yet it was the burst of the housing market in America that hurt the US more than the cost of war.  But the two environment together, were even more devastating.



georgephillip said:


> The solution seems fairly straightforward: erect a wall between private wealth and its influence on government, or tax the rich into extinction before their innate dependence on war exterminates this specie.


*(COMMENT)*

This doesn't work.  It retards the R&D effort the spurs innovation and development in the defensive industry.  

Again, if you tax "into extinction" the driving force behind the defense industry, you reduce the very environment that makes an armed force "invincible in war."  

No!  While I have shared some of the exact same concerns you have with an overly influential defense industry over Congress, I also realized that there is a need for profit.

*(CONCEPT)*

War is an outcome of failed diplomacy and the corrupt values of the Congressional and Executive leadership.  The profitability of war is merely the defense and banking industries taking advantage of this leadership deficit.  It is all about working in harmony to maximize wealth and accumulate power and influence.  War doesn't have to be the environmental factor, but it is the easiest to kick-off.  And with the military force that is invisible, it is the least risky.  But if you shift the profitability away from and industry that creates the invincible force, you increase risk and induce an unnecessary risk factor that might cause a war to be lost.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## georgephillip (Feb 24, 2013)

Rocco..."Accumulate! Accumulate! That is Moses and the prophets."
Karl Marx, 1867.

Abolishing war today may be as unrealistic as abolishing slavery was 150 years ago, but that doesn't mean it's any less necessary. The "corrupt values of (our) Congressional and Executive leadership" serve to enhance the private fortunes of those doing the corruption. The defense and banking industries will continue to compel politicians of both major parties to sustain the "Long War," and the eventual result will be a war without any winners.


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## Redbone (Feb 24, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The right policy when the owners of those necks are out to murder all Jews. That you cleverly and so conveniently forget that reveals your lack of integrity and willingness to deceive those you think to be uninformed.


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## georgephillip (Feb 24, 2013)

Redbone said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


"Palestinian farmers face the brunt of Israel&#8217;s land confiscations, demolitions and water theft. Farmers that still have access to land and water face systematically implemented restrictions and violence.

"Israeli agricultural export companies such as Mehadrin and Hadiklaim are among the primary beneficiaries of the destruction of Palestinian agriculture, operating inside and exporting produce from illegal settlements using stolen Palestinian land and water and profiting from the siege on Gaza."

What percentage of Arabs do you imagine want "to murder all Jews?"

Those who apologize for Jews stealing Arab land and water often confuse integrity with deception.

Briefing: Farming Injustice ? International trade with Israeli agricultural companies and the destruction of Palestinian farming | BDSmovement.net


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## Redbone (Feb 24, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Redbone said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



How many you ask. Enough to make the threat a serious one. How many would it take if it were you being so threatened?


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## georgephillip (Feb 24, 2013)

"&#54792;&#45453;&#50612;&#49688; - &#54588;&#45716; &#47932;&#48372;&#45796; &#51673;&#45796; (&#34880;&#28611;&#26044;&#27700: Blood is thicker than water [1]
[edit]Genealogy.

Yuh Woon-Hyung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are you confused about why people post on political message boards?


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## Hossfly (Feb 24, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> "&#54792;&#45453;&#50612;&#49688; - &#54588;&#45716; &#47932;&#48372;&#45796; &#51673;&#45796; (&#34880;&#28611;&#26044;&#27700: Blood is thicker than water [1]
> [edit]Genealogy.
> 
> Yuh Woon-Hyung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Of course I know why they post.  They want to discuss what is happening in the world of today, or if they don't have any spare change to even go to Macdonald's for a cup of coffee, they keep on babbling about wars which happened way in the past.  I guess Georgie Boy is not interested in what the South Koreans living not far from him in Koreatown have to say about the war.  He would rather bring up long-ago wars ad nauseam on this message board, or course using his beloved Wikipedia once again.  Maybe he is afraid what the South Korean living in America might tell him.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 24, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> The idea sounds both noble in its purpose, and sound in its suggested implementation.  But it is neither.
> 
> ...



The problem is that profits have been the reason for war more than defense.

Never-ending war for never ending profit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY]Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex. - YouTube[/ame]


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## RoccoR (Feb 25, 2013)

georgephillip,  _et al,_

There is no question that President _(and retired General of the Army)_ Eisenhower was correct.  But he was preaching about "excess" and not a "pacifist nation;" or "taxing to extinction."  He was concerned that the Captains of Industry would gain too much influence over a Congress that was all too susceptible to the dollar; and lacking the ability to control the monster.



P F Tinmore said:


> The problem is that profits have been the reason for war more than defense.
> 
> Never-ending war for never ending profit.


*(COMMENT)*

There is still yet other factors that create wars.  Clearly, the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict is not at all about profitability.  In comparison to what the defense industry makes, that is hardly a drop in the bucket.  And what Iran makes is, most definitely, in negative numbers.  This is about raw power and influence.

Humanity, especially in the Middle East/Persian Gulf Region, has not developed to the enlightened stage of peaceful coexistence with other religious and culturally different societies.  War is, whether we like it or not, an integral part of the human experience. 

To change the influential factors of war, you have to generate a crop of leaders that have a different moral compass; one that points the way to peace, cooperation and development.  As a species, we are not there yet.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 25, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> There is no question that President _(and retired General of the Army)_ Eisenhower was correct.  But he was preaching about "excess" and not a "pacifist nation;" or "taxing to extinction."  He was concerned that the Captains of Industry would gain too much influence over a Congress that was all too susceptible to the dollar; and lacking the ability to control the monster.
> 
> ...



They have never told us why we really invaded Iraq. Everything they told us is a pack of lies. Follow the money.

Israel was created to be a safe haven for Jews but it is the most dangerous place on earth for Jews to live. Israel's occupation is very expensive for people around the world but there are a handful of people getting very rich. Again, follow the money.


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip,  _et al,_
> ...




   There are a handful of people getting rich on the conflict between jews and muslims 
in the middle east-----out of smuggling and theft there are actually  multimillionaires 
amongst those POOR STARVING GAZANS   in Gaza     and SUHA REALLY MADE OUT 
on her marriage to the pansy  ARAFART     Follow the money----the entire carter family 
is supported by employment in  "NON PROFIT"   charitable organizations   funded 
by  SAUDI ARABIA       remember little amy?      both she and her  "computer programer" 
husband are highly paid  EXECUTIVES  in one of the  NON-PROFIT  (read that untaxed)
  "charity"   thingys


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 25, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...





> There are a handful of people getting rich on the conflict between jews and muslims
> in the middle east-----out of smuggling and theft there are actually multimillionaires
> amongst those POOR STARVING GAZANS in Gaza and SUHA REALLY MADE OUT
> on her marriage to the pansy ARAFART



Indeed, and all of that is related to the occupation. Without the conflict none of that would have happened.


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## georgephillip (Feb 25, 2013)

Redbone said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Redbone said:
> ...


Personally, it would never occur to me to steal my neighbors land and water rights while using their children for target practice. You?


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## RoccoR (Feb 25, 2013)

P F Tinmore; georgephillip,  _et al,_

Wow, we could write a small encyclopedia about this, and the post-combat (Phase IV) of the second Gulf War (the invasion), and still miss things.  So, I'll give you the thumbnail quantum version and you two can double team me and pick at it.  I'll be happy to amplify any questions.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > There is no question that President _(and retired General of the Army)_ Eisenhower was correct.  But he was preaching about "excess" and not a "pacifist nation;" or "taxing to extinction."  He was concerned that the Captains of Industry would gain too much influence over a Congress that was all too susceptible to the dollar; and lacking the ability to control the monster.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Following the money usually works, but it is only a single piece to the equation.  It is not a "cause."  Clearly you can make some correlations, but as they say in science:  Correlation does not imply Causation.  _(I can correlation Sun Spots to some major events.  But it doesn mean the Sun Spots caused them.  The same it true with money.)_  This is a step-by-step logic.

*(THE BACKDROP)*

The US is (not theory) a political-military hegemony.  We operate by the carrot and stick method; but we waive the stick very hard.  At one time the military component had a saying:

_*Persuasive in Peace, Invincible in War.*
*LINK --->* 2002 U.S. Army Posture Statement​_
Diplomacy was based on the presentation that any US suggestion was Option "A" --- and if you didn't do it our way, then you can go to option "B;" the military hard way.

There was a "Think Tank" called the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) _(with a number of very influential members)_ that stressed US leadership into the 21st Century through brute strength.

Some of the members included _(1997/8 time frame)_:


Elliott Abrams, He served as deputy assistant to the president and deputy national security adviser in the administration of President George W. Bush.    
Gary Bauer, held several jobs in the Ronald Reagan administration, rising to the directorship of the White House's Office of Policy Development.  
William J. Bennett, served as Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy under President George H. W. Bush.   
Jeb Bush, the brother.
Dick Cheney, VP and former SECDEF      
Paula Dobriansky,  the Undersecretary of State for Democracy and Global Affairs    
Aaron Friedberg, Cheney's Deputy Assistant for National-Security Affairs and Director of Policy Planning.
Dan Quayle, former VP     
Zalmay Khalilzad, former Ambo to Afghanistan and Iraq    
I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, former CoS, Cheney    
*Plus:*
Donald Rumsfeld  SECDEF and  Paul Wolfowitz Principle Deputy SECDEF
R. James Woolsey, former Director of Central Intelligence
Richard Perle, Chairman of the Defense Policy Board, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy
Richard L. Armitage, former Deputy Secretary of State

In January 1998, the PNAC wrote a letter to then President Clinton, and stated in part:



			
				PNAC Ltr to POTUS January 26 said:
			
		

> Given the magnitude of the threat, the current policy, which depends for its success upon the steadfastness of our coalition partners and upon the cooperation of Saddam Hussein, is dangerously inadequate. The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.
> *SOURCE:* Letter to President Clinton on Iraq



While POTUS did not act on this recommendation, the key to remember is that many of the PNAC members that signed or supported this recommendation were soon to come into positions of great power and influence.  

Having said that, the PNAC was correct in part:  "American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War."

This is the seed that blossomed.

*(The FOCUS of the DAY)*

The grand plan was simple.  The logic was to plant a huge stick right in the middle of the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region; equal distant from every aggressor and able to put a crimp in any offensive action that might develop a threat against oil interests or Israel.  And Iraq fit the strategic bill.  All they had to do was figure out a way to justify a regime change, and install a US friendly government that would be grateful and allow a couple of military bases.

Then fate intervened.  The US was traumatized by 911, and itching for a fight.  And the threat could all be traced back to the Middle East (Game-On).  Cook the books, demonize Saddam, launch a Madison Avenue style campaign, and win public and Congressional support.  Saddam Hussein became the greatest threat America has ever faced since Adolf Hitler; and the President gets to become the most famous wartime President history ever recorded since Lincoln and Roosevelt.

America could create a shadow force over any of the Arab Nations threatening Israel, lifting the pressure off them and changing the paradigm that might lead to peace in Palestine.  At the same time, Iran would now be now well within striking distance.  The bases were sufficient to support not only conventional strike capabilities, but asymmetric operations _(covert, clandestine or paramilitary)_ throughout the two regions and even into Yemen.

Desert Storm:  17 January 1991 &#8211; 28 February 1991(Ground) - 30 November 1995(AIR)

"WAR" is a result of diplomatic failures.  As tumultuous the victory was in Gulf War I, at least part of the blame rest with the United States (my personal opinion).  While it is true, that there was an oil dispute, and a $14B loan agreement, these were workable.  But I think what made the invasion of Kuwait an option was the way in which Saddam Hussein interpreted the US position, as expressed by the on-scene Ambassador, April Glaspie, 25 July 1990.  She essentially stated: 

"we have no opinion on Arab-Arab issues, such as your border disagreement with Kuwait."



			
				Transcript of Meeting Between Iraqi President said:
			
		

> Saddam Hussein - As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.
> 
> U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - What solutions would be acceptable?
> 
> ...



It was eight days later that Iraq invaded Kuwait, and announced annexation.

*(OPINION)*

It was my opinion then, and it is my opinion now, that our ally, Saddam Hussein, thought that _(in political-ese)_ the US was giving Iraq a "green light" for military action.  And we were, just not on the scale that Saddam Hussein was contemplating.  As the Ambassador said:  "I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait."  Clearly implying that we did expect him to take some of Kuwait; just the oil dispute areas; the al-Rumaila Oil Field 15-20 miles from the Kuwaiti border, inside Iraq.

*(COMMENT)*

On 3 March 1991: Iraq accepts the terms of a ceasefire Safwan Accords, and the UN Security Council Resolution 686 2 March 1991; and then the following month, the UNSC Resolution 687.  It is in UNSC Resolution 687 that the first mention on WMD restrictions are made.  This sets the stage for the subsequent struggle over WMD issues in Iraq.  



			
				 The Project for the New American Century said:
			
		

> In August of 2002, Defense Policy Board chairman and PNAC member Richard Perle heard a policy briefing from a think tank associated with the Rand Corporation. According to the Washington Post and The Nation, the final slide of this presentation described "Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia as the strategic pivot, and Egypt as the prize" in a war that would purportedly be about ridding the world of Saddam Hussein's weapons. Bush has deployed massive forces into the Mideast region, while simultaneously engaging American forces in the Philippines and playing nuclear chicken with North Korea. Somewhere in all this lurks at least one of the "major theater wars" desired by the September 2000 PNAC report.
> 
> Iraq is but the beginning, a pretense for a wider conflict. Donald Kagan, a central member of PNAC, sees America establishing permanent military bases in Iraq after the war. This is purportedly a measure to defend the peace in the Middle East, and to make sure the oil flows. The nations in that region, however, will see this for what it is: a jump-off point for American forces to invade any nation in that region they choose to. The American people, anxiously awaiting some sort of exit plan after America defeats Iraq, will see too late that no exit is planned.
> *SOURCE:* http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle1665.htm



We're not truly sure what caused al-Qaeda (Osama bin Laden) to target the US in 1992, leading the the 1993 bombing. There were a number of factors in play. None of which involved Iraq. We are fairly confident that US force using Saudi facilities was a major sticking point with al-Qaeda. 

Relative to Iraq, al-Qaeda wasn't an issue. While there were a couple of known international terrorist hiding out in Iraq, they were not al-Qaeda assets. What we called al-Qaeda in Iraq, was really the JTJ under Abu Massab al-Zaqarwi, a Jordanian terrorist. He wanted credit for his operation and was always being misidentified as AQI. So, in August of '04, he pledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden (ObL) and AQ.

The bulls-eye, painted on Iraq was painted long before George Bush II and the The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI), which had many of the same members as the PNAC, was instrumental in lobbying for the Legislation of the same name.

At the time, other than the naval air, there was no real regional, land base strike capability prior to Gulf War I. The Saudi bases were off-limits. The Kuwaiti base had not been established. After Gulf War I, the Kuwaiti base _(Ali Al Salem Air Base)_ was too far south to cover tactical air all the way to the Occupied Territories, Lebanon or Syria, and still maintain any meaning time-on-target. However, there were 5 air bases west of Al Asad _(in Iraq, along the Jordanian-Syrian Border)_, that were very capable of being made into US Tactical Stations. Right in the middle of every predictable Middle East targets.

ObL was the apprentice engineer that helped his father's company (the bin Laden Group) refurbish and renovate the Grand Mosque in Mecca. It is believed then, that ObL heard the words of Juhayman al-Oteibi and became an inspired Muslim. He later came to believe that US Forces, although no where near Mecca, defiled the Holy Ground upon which the Grand Mosque was built. 

But many key intelligence officials have since come to believe that when ObL approached the King, asking for support, money and weapons to defend Saudi sovereignty against a possible invasion from Iraq, and was turned down in favor of the US and Coalition --- that triggered the Jihad against America.

Within the Intelligence Community at the time, it was a minor debate.

ObL didn't care about Iraq at all. Saddam Hussein did not care for Osama bin Laden's leadership and did not reach out for al-Qaeda; there was virtually no connection of any significants between the two.

There is a connection between Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, and the probable cause to believe in a connection between Iraq and Terrorism.

supporting and harboring terrorist organizations;
threat posed by the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction by international terrorist organizations;
employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so;
Iraq's ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction in direct violation;
... .... ..... Whereas, where as, and so forth, etc...



			
				 SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES. Para "b" said:
			
		

> (1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and
> 
> (2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
> 
> ...



Both the Rand and the PNAC are/were "Think Tanks." It is the conduit by which the influential membership of the "Think Tank" transmits ideas to the decision making level. In this case, the guys transmitting the finding, became the decision makers. That is how the ideas reach such a high level.

We didn't have forward operating bases offset Jihadists and pre-position offensive forces anywhere in the ME, in the fashion necessary we needed to maintain security.  And that was a critical reason for looking at western desert bases in Iraq.

At the time of 9/11, we had not invaded Iraq. There was no "occupation" for ObL to fret over. The pre-war ratchet of sanctions meant nothing to ObL. He was a ethnic Yemeni and a devout Wahhabi Muslim, who had a thing for Islamic Holy sites. Rather than be worried about Baghdad, he was more concerned for Jerusalem, and the al-Aqsa Masjid which his great prophet revered.

If Osama bin Laden was upset about anything, it would have been the Battle of Tora Bora, the total destruction of the al-Qaeda's Main facilities in a series of mountain caves near the Pakistani border in Afghanistan; from December 12, 2001 to December 17, 2001. 

Prior to the invasion, ObL issued The FATWA entitled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places" of 1996. He meant Mecca and Medina (Saudi Arabia). 

The general call to Jihad came in 1998, two years later. It was called the "Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders," which dealt with Arab-Israeli conflict. The US became a secondary target through its interventionist Foreign Policy as ObL saw it.

*References:*

"Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places."
.....*LINK --->* http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...atwa_1996.html 
Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders: World Islamic Front Statement
.....*LINK --->* World Islamic Front Statement Urging Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders

I hope I was able to clarify my commentary in this.  I tried to simplify it as best I could.  I'm sure there are shoddy spots that sound clear to me, but are not to you. 

Most Respectfully,
R

..................................._*In Remembrance:*_
General Norman Schwarzkopf _(AKA: ""The Bear."")_, US Army (Ret), 
Commander, United States Central Command, Desert Storm & Coalition Forces, 
22 August 1934 - 28 December, 2012​


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## irosie91 (Feb 25, 2013)

thanks MR. R     all excellent info-----and I would like to point out --
not a single mention of nuclear weapons---but---I do believe 
that the people who understood that an attack on Saddam was 
necessary ----did not mind that some people are such  idiots that 
WMD  means  atom bomb to them------I do not believe that the US 
government lied the US people about the danger  Saddam posed.

I do not like how the iraqi war went---but have no idea what 
THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE


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## RoccoR (Feb 25, 2013)

ima,  _et al,_

Wow, that is three issues.



ima said:


> We went after Saddam so that Haliburton could get even richer.  As Professor Tinman _(sic)_ _(Tinmore)_ says: follow the money. There were no WMD,
> and they sent a black man (Powell) to do their dirty work and lie to us.
> Cheney and his Bush gang should be tried at the World Court for war crimes.


*(COMMENT)*

The issue of defense contractors really dates back to a time well before I retired in 1989.  Congress wanted to reduce the military force in size and capacity.  They wanted to cut the combat support and combat service support to the bone, leaving priority fill to the combat arms. 

Combat Support and Combat Service Support (CS/CSS) were:

Supply.
Transportation.
Maintenance.
Field services.
Personnel and administration services, including strength and personnel accounting, casualty reporting, replacement operations, awards, and personnel management.
Chaplain operations.
Enemy prisoner of war (EPW) operations.
Health services support includes--
Medical treatment and evacuation of casualties.
Preventive medicine.
Medical supply operations.
engineer, 
military police, 
signal, 
military intelligence and 
civil affairs.

The Combat Arms were:


Air Defense Artillery, 
Armor, Aviation, 
Field Artillery, 
Infantry, 
Special Operations Forces, and 
Combat Engineers.

The strategy, especially after the end of 1989, and the fall of the Berlin Wall, was to minimize the CS/CSS (some abolished and some to the Guard and Reserve) and use that reduction to absorb the defense cuts that were coming.  Then shift the remainder of the authorized fills to the combat arms.  At the time, the defense think tank guru's did not see a need to maintain CS/CSS positions during peacetime, when the need for those functions could be contracted out for short periods of need.  The Peace Dividend strategy saved money in the short-term.  

However, when the first and second Gulf Wars erupted, there was a heavy impact, first - on the Guard and Reserve, and second - on the need for contractors with very specialized skill sets that were absent in the trimmer army.  There were no general engineers, no water purification teams, very few military police, few counterintelligence agents (all as merely examples), and then ---  there were no more truck drivers or kitchen help.  All these functions had been contracted out.  When the unit deployed, they didn't have what they needed to sustain operations.  Hense the rise of the civilian truck convoys, the KBR Messing Facilities, civilian augmentation in civila affairs, intelligence, and security functions.

This was the plan all along.  Whether it was a good plan, is another matter.  But it was put in place long before Iraq ever became an issue.

As for Secretary Powell, it is what it is.  Secretary (retired General) Colin Powell was as much a victim of circumstance as anybody else.  The WMD issue was poorly managed.  And the Western World, particularly the US, wanted to apply standards (after the fact) to the accountability process.  It simply didn't work.  The outcome of using intelligence of a decade old, the need to make a case, and the mental conditioning caused people to see what they wanted to see, rather than --- what is.

As for POTUS and VPOTUS, there is no war crime for being stupid.  It is Congress that should have been fired.  But we re-elected them by nearly 96%.  The general public is at fault for being so vigilante like.  We had a President that screamed Hang'em High - and the general public fell in lock step behind him with the biggest vigilante posse ever assembled.  And in the end- that is exactly what they did.  I was in Iraq on 30 December 2006 when they hanged Saddam.  It was a lesson, not for the American or the Iraqi, but for the dictators in and around the region.  A reminder of how governments change hands in the Middle East - the nature of the people.  

Most Respectfully,
R


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## ima (Feb 25, 2013)

Saddam decides to attack Kuwait for no reason, so we kick his ass. 
We attack Iraq for no reason, and our leaders get off scott free. Saddam gets his ass kicked again, and then hanged.
Makes me embarrassed to be an American sometimes.


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## Hossfly (Feb 25, 2013)

ima said:


> Saddam decides to attack Kuwait for no reason, so we kick his ass.
> We attack Iraq for no reason, and our leaders get off scott free. Saddam gets his ass kicked again, and then hanged.
> Makes me embarrassed to be an American sometimes.


That's OK. We're embarrased for Americans who badmouth their country.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 25, 2013)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore; georgephillip,  _et al,_
> 
> Wow, we could write a small encyclopedia about this, and the post-combat (Phase IV) of the second Gulf War (the invasion), and still miss things.  So, I'll give you the thumbnail quantum version and you two can double team me and pick at it.  I'll be happy to amplify any questions.
> 
> ...





> And Iraq fit the strategic bill. All they had to do was figure out a way to justify a regime change, and install a US friendly government that would be grateful and allow a couple of military bases.



Enter the pack of lies that I was talking about.

PNAC is the bottom of the barrel of human existence. Those people are lower than whale shit.


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## ima (Feb 26, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Saddam decides to attack Kuwait for no reason, so we kick his ass.
> ...



You're embarrassed at free speech? Amazing.


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## Hossfly (Feb 26, 2013)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


I didn't infer anything of the kind, trashmouth.It's people like me who gave you the right to make an ass out of yourself and not have to worry about rotting in jail.


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## georgephillip (Feb 26, 2013)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


People like you are slaves.
You're more "Good German" than "White Rose":

"The White Rose has been lionized by postwar Germans&#8212;one of its members, Alexander Schmorell, was made a saint by the Russian Orthodox Church last year, and squares and schools in Germany are named for the resisters&#8212;but in the BBC interview Furst-Ramdohr curtly dismissed the adulation of the group.

&#8220;'At the time, they&#8217;d have had us all executed,' she said in speaking of most Germans&#8217; hatred of resisters during the war.

Chris Hedges: Rebels Stand Alone - Chris Hedges' Columns - Truthdig


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## Hossfly (Feb 26, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


You can thank a veteran for giving you the rights to be in the same class as Ima.


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## hoosier88 (Feb 28, 2013)

Hollie said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



(My bold)

If only it were true - that Iran doesn't understand the tech they've bought/leased.  They have banks of centrifuges running to enrich U - which they got from Pakistan's nuke salesman/developer, Dr. Khan.  It is precisely because they (Iran) have the scientists, engineers, technically educated people & an economy generating sufficient income, that they might actually achieve fieldable nuclear weapons.

To say otherwise echoes the disdain heaped upon Japanese weapons, pilots, etc. prior to WWII by the Allies, or even Hitler dismissing high-energy physics as "Jewish mathematics".  While Hitler managed to evade the nukes, the Japanese were not so fortunate.


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## Wiseacre (Feb 28, 2013)

Guys - stay on topic and knock off the trolling.   Is it that hard to discuss the issue at hand rather than descend into insults and personal attacks?


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## georgephillip (Mar 3, 2013)

Who could object to banning nuclear weapons from the Middle East, the *usual contingent*:

"The United States will not allow measures to place Israel's nuclear facilities under international inspection. Nor will the U.S. release information on 'the nature and scope of Israeli nuclear facilities and activities.'

"The Kuwait news agency immediately reported that 'the Arab group of states and the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) member states agreed to continue lobbying for a conference on establishing a Middle East zone free of nuclear weapons and all other weapons of mass destruction.'

"Last month, the U.N. General Assembly passed a resolution calling on Israel to join the NPT, 174-6. Voting no was the usual contingent: *Israel, the United States, Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau*.

"A few days later, the United States carried out a nuclear weapons test, again banning international inspectors from the test site in Nevada. Iran protested, as did the mayor of Hiroshima and some Japanese peace groups."

Noam Chomsky: The Gravest Threat to World Peace

More proof that the US and its client$ flout international law whenever it suits their purpo$e$.


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## irosie91 (Mar 3, 2013)

just in the  100 years of the 20th  century----muslims murdered thru genocide------in the name of allah, isa and the rapist pig----well over 20 million people.
Israel had killed not a single person with nuclear weapons

to save lives----ban muslims from owning knives   and from the 
ingredients necessary to  make a bomb designed to tie onto the 
stinking ass of a jihadista slut. 

two million armenians went down via knives and clubs

several million  BIAFRANS  went down----via  STARVATION 
SIEGE  ----hundreds of thousands of babies dead in the dust

can we ban  COMMERICAL PASSENGER FLIGHTS 
since the genius of islam has turned them into 
weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION?


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## georgephillip (Mar 3, 2013)

irosie91 said:


> just in the  100 years of the 20th  century----muslims murdered thru genocide------in the name of allah, isa and the rapist pig----well over 20 million people.
> Israel had killed not a single person with nuclear weapons
> 
> to save lives----ban muslims from owning knives   and from the
> ...


All of which has little or nothing to do with a nuclear weapons free zone in the Middle East:

"Establishment of a nuclear weapons-free zone of course requires the cooperation of the nuclear powers: *In the Middle East, that would include the United States and Israel, which refuse*.

"The same is true elsewhere. Such zones in Africa and the Pacific await implementation because the U.S. insists on maintaining and upgrading nuclear weapons bases on islands it controls."

So says The World's Smartest Jew

Can we ban COMMERCIAL TROLLS who can't stay on topic?


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

georgephillip said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > just in the  100 years of the 20th  century----muslims murdered thru genocide------in the name of allah, isa and the rapist pig----well over 20 million people.
> ...



George = No life


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## georgephillip (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


"Americans can hardly be aware of how diplomacy has once again failed, for a simple reason: Virtually nothing is reported in the United States about the fate of the most obvious way to address 'the gravest threat' &#8211; Establish a nuclear-weapon-free zone in the Middle East."

When can we expect the "chosen people" to choose peace?

Noam Chomsky: The Gravest Threat to World Peace


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Former United States Senator Daniel Inouye, former President Pro Tempore of the US Senate, Awarded Medal of Honor, Purple Heart, Distinguished Service Cross, Bronze Star...


> If one looks at most of this world, especially the Middle East, one country stands out as a foundation of stability and as a pillar of democracy. And at a time like this, when you have revolution in Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia and Jordan, thank God we have Israel.
> Top senator: An attack on Israel is an attack on US | JPost | Israel News


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## georgephillip (Mar 3, 2013)

If that's your idea of an endorsement for Israel, maybe Henry Kissinger works better:

"Inouye dated his concrete connection to Israel back to 1951, when he was a salesman in Hawaii for Israel bonds. He quipped that he was the first person in his state to buy an Israeli bond, and still has it framed in his office, along with a mezuzah on the door and &#8220;menorahs all over the place.'&#8221;

Top senator: An attack on Israel is an attack on US | JPost | Israel News

Kissinger and Inouye are corporate whores willing to say whatever they are paid enough to say.
Sounds like something Moses would approve of.


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## Maryland (Mar 3, 2013)

Maryland said:


> Former United States Senator Daniel Inouye, former President Pro Tempore of the US Senate, Awarded Medal of Honor, Purple Heart, Distinguished Service Cross, Bronze Star...
> 
> 
> > If one looks at most of this world, especially the Middle East, one country stands out as a foundation of stability and as a pillar of democracy. And at a time like this, when you have revolution in Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia and Jordan, thank God we have Israel.
> > Top senator: An attack on Israel is an attack on US | JPost | Israel News



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypt3rEvEMSU&feature=related]Daniel Inouye - Congressional Gold Medal Ceremony Address - YouTube[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Mar 4, 2013)

Inouye believes in the Golden Rule:
He who owns the gold makes the rules.
Maybe you can find a testimonial from Dick Cheney?


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