# Looks like Tea Party was right about Obamacare.  America owes them an apology



## ShootSpeeders (Oct 21, 2013)

The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare.  It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 21, 2013)

On top of that O-care is clearly unconstitutional.  Nowhere is congress authorized to create a health care system. The SCOTUS took their usual bribes from the health care industry and OK'd it.


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## Black_Label (Oct 21, 2013)

Do you like talking to yourself?


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## TheOldSchool (Oct 21, 2013)

Black_Label said:


> Do you like talking to yourself?



*touching


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## ScienceRocks (Oct 21, 2013)

Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.


The success of this bill will make or break the democrats.


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## francoHFW (Oct 22, 2013)

Its success has nothing to do with the first weeks of its website....


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## Clementine (Oct 22, 2013)

First, define what success actually means to Obama and the liberals with regard to Obamacare.   If quality health care at affordable prices was the goal, it is a miserable failure.   If seizing an insane amount of power over the people was the real goal (and I think it was), it was a great success for the socialists.   

People who loved their current plans, such as those who had Blue Cross/ Blue Shield are not happy.   There are too many reports to count of people telling how they've been screwed.   One family was paying about $425.00 a month for BC/BS and since that plan is not accepted by the tyrants, they were forced to go to the exchange and found they had only one choice, which was a plan for $1300.00 a month with a huge deductible.    Now they have to figure out where to cut their budget and that isn't easy.   Of course, the liberals in Washington are unable to comprehend this whole concept of staying within a planned budget, so I don't expect any sympathy from them for those who will be hurting because of Obamacare.

Liberals don't like to talk about whether Obamacare is a tax or not.    Of course, Obama needs to have it both ways to attempt to legitimize it.   To congress, especially the House who is supposed to pass all tax raising bills, Obama says it's not a tax.   To all the people he lied to about not raising taxes for anyone making under $250,000, it's not a tax.    Only to SCOTUS is it a tax.

Can't have it both ways, so pick one.

Not a tax =  Unconstitutional, according to SCOTUS.

Tax=  Unconstitutional because the bill did not originate in or pass the House.    It was a shell bill and merely an underhanded and dirty move by Obama and his cronies to shove it through.

For this piece of shit to be upheld, Obama has to have different people believing different things.

As for the shitty website that cost over $600 million dollars.   If they can't get something as simple as a website right, they have no business trying to run even more difficult things.   They just aren't smart enough.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 22, 2013)

The failure is getting too big for the MSM to cover up 

Poll: Majority believe health-care Web site problems indicate broader issue with law

_Fifty-six percent of Americans say the Web site problems are part of a broader problem with the law&#8217;s implementation _​


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.



That is definitely the oxymoron of all time. lol 

-Geaux


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## midcan5 (Oct 22, 2013)

It is incredible the opposition to a program that will eventually help America's working classes. Simply incredible the can't do or won't do attitude of the privileged in America.

'Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare'

'UPDATE I re-reported a Fox News segment on Obamacare -- it was appallingly easy to see how it misleads the audience'

Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare - Salon.com


*Meanwhile check out the poverty rates in the states most likely to fight care for their own citizens.

http://www.southerneducation.org/cmspages/getfile.aspx?guid=0bc70ce1-d375-4ff6-8340-f9b3452ee088

States with a Majority of Low Income Students in Public Schools: 2011

State Rate (Percent) 
Mississippi 71
New Mexico 68
Louisiana 66
Oklahoma 61
Arkansas 60
Georgia 57
Kentucky 57
Florida 56
Tennessee 55
South Carolina 55
Alabama 55
California 54
West Virginia 51
Oregon 51
Nevada 51
North Carolina 50
Texas 50*

America has become the land of the haves and the have nots.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 22, 2013)

Obama also made this promise:


&#8220;I will sign a universal health-care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family&#8217;s premium by up to $2,500 a year.&#8221;



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-tvBxCeGtf4]You Lied To Me - YouTube[/ame]


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

francoHFW said:


> Its success has nothing to do with the first weeks of its website....



Success and Obummer care will never be a balanced equation

Only sick, lame and lazy are signing up

-Geaux


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 22, 2013)

Of course,
there is this lie

There are 400,000 jobs just right around the corner..
It will be any day now, once the website works properly

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QJKGWEkkE7E]Pelosi: Obamacare Will Supply 400,000 Jobs Almost Immediately! - YouTube[/ame]


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

[youtube]hV-05TLiiLU[/youtube]


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 22, 2013)

must be more of that 'smart power'

Just like the website

"We have to be able to use it to see how wonderful it is,,,,,"


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Obama supporters will go hysterical over this well sourced list of 365 examples of his lying, lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, etc. | Dan from Squirrel Hill's Blog

Obama supporters will go hysterical over this well sourced list of 365 examples of his lying, lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, etc.

) Carried out military interventionism in Libya without Congressional approval

In June 2011, U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said that Obama had violated the Constitution when he launched military operations in Libya without Congressional approval.



2) Gave a no-bid contract to Halliburton &#8211; just like Bush did

In May 2010, it was reported that the Obama administration had selected KBR, a former subsidiary of Halliburton, for a no-bid contract worth as much as $568 million through 2011, just hours after the Justice Department had said it would pursue a lawsuit accusing the Houston-based company of using kickbacks to get foreign contracts.

3) Has an administration full of lobbyists, after promising he wouldn&#8217;t have any

While running for President, Obama had promised that, unlike Bush, he would not have any lobbyists working in his administration. However, by February 2010, he had more than 40 lobbyists working in his administration.

4) Has close ties to Wall St., but pretends to support Occupy Wall St.

Although Obama claims to support the Occupy Wall St. movement, the truth is that he has raised more money from Wall St. than any other candidate during the last 20 years. In early 2012, Obama held a fundraiser where Wall St. investment bankers and hedge fund managers each paid $35,800 to attend. In October 2011, Obama hired Broderick Johnson, a longtime Wall Street lobbyist, to be his new senior campaign adviser. Johnson had worked as a lobbyist for JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Fannie Mae, Comcast, Microsoft, and the oil industry.

5) Broke his promise to close Guantanamo Bay

Obama broke his promise to close Guantanamo Bay.

6) Supported the $700 billion TARP corporate-welfare bailout just like Bush

While Senator, Obama voted for the $700 billion TARP bank bailout bill. The bailout rewarded irresponsible and illegal behavior. It redirected resources from more productive uses to less productive uses. It punished the hard working taxpayers who had played by the rules and obeyed the law. It created horrible incentives, and sent the wrong message. The bailout was evil because it rewarded the bad people and punished the good people. No society that does this can expect to remain free or prosperous. Instead of bailing out these corrupt corporations, we should have let them cease to exist, like we did with Enron.


8) Nominated a six-time tax cheater to head the government agency that enforces the tax laws

Obama nominated Timothy Geithner, a repeat tax cheater, to head the government agency that enforces the tax laws.

Prior to his nomination, Geithner had:

1) Illegally failed to pay more than $34,000 in social security and medicare taxes

2) Illegally declared the cost of his children&#8217;s summer camp as a form of day care.

3) Illegally failed to pay the early withdrawal penalty when he took money out of his retirement plan

4) Illegally declared non-eligible items as a charitable deduction

5) Illegally declared something which was ineligible as a small business deduction

6) Illegally declared utility expenses which had actually been for his personal use

9) Gave tax dollars to AIG executives, then pretended to be outraged about it

Obama signed a stimulus bill that spent money on bonuses for AIG executives. Prior to signing this bill, Obama had said, &#8220;when I&#8217;m president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely.&#8221; However, after reading &#8220;line by line&#8221; and signing the stimulus bill that protected the AIG bonuses, Obama pretended to be shocked and outraged at the bonuses, and said, &#8220;Under these circumstances, it&#8217;s hard to understand how derivative traders at A.I.G. warranted any bonuses at all, much less $165 million in extra pay&#8230; How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat?&#8221; and also said that he would &#8220;pursue every single legal avenue to block these bonuses.&#8221;

10) Expanded Bush&#8217;s unconstitutional government faith based programs

Obama expanded the federal government&#8217;s faith based programs which had been started by President George W. Bush.

11) Supported Bush&#8217;s unconstitutional Patriot Act

In May 2011, Obama signed a renewal of the Patriot Act.

12) Increased the national debt more in one term than Bush did in two

The national debt increased more during Obama&#8217;s first three years and two months than it did during all eight years of George W. Bush&#8217;s presidency.

13) Agrees with Bush&#8217;s support of unconstitutional, indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without filing any charges

In December 2011, ACLU executive director Anthony D. Romero criticized Obama for signing a bill that gave the U.S. government the power to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens without any charges being filed or any trial taking place.


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## ba1614 (Oct 22, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> It is incredible the opposition to a program that will eventually help America's working classes. Simply incredible the can't do or won't do attitude of the privileged in America.
> 
> 'Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare'
> 
> ...



Now that's rich, an obama bot talking about what the privileged can't or won't do lmfao


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## Claudette (Oct 22, 2013)

Its more like America has become the land of the freeloader and the producer. 

The pruducers are fast becoming the minority. 

All hail Obamas signature legislation. It sucks.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Claudette said:


> Its more like America has become the land of the freeloader and the producer.
> 
> The pruducers are fast becoming the minority.
> 
> All hail Obamas signature legislation. It sucks.



Indeed- Not surprising considering the fact Odumbo won re-election after convincing a small majority that it's more patriotic to ride in the wagon than pull it. However, physics will not allow the continued oh slow forward pace of the economy which some equate to the speed of a herd of turtles.

We got what irresponsible voters elected, now swallow the medicine

-Geaux


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.
> 
> 
> The success of this bill will make or break the democrats.



I doubt that.  A a neutral public reaction will be a big success for the Democrats.  
There isn't an American who isn't benefiting from the law right now and what it forces insurance companies to do (stuff they didn't do before).  As I've stated several times, my assistant has a special needs child who can stay on the insurance much longer.  If Obamacare wasn't law, she'd be paying the needed healthcare out of her pocket; instead, she pays the insurance we have here at work that she has budgeted for during the years she's worked here.  In other words, she's able to keep money in her pocket that would have been gone otherwise.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Matthew said:
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> > Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.
> ...





What, you got a mouse in your pocket?

Speak for yourself for once

-Geaux


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## Claudette (Oct 22, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


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She should try telling that to the guy with a  $13,999.00 deductable and the guy with an $11,000.00 deductable. 

They would laugh in her face.

It works great till you run out of other people money.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> candycorn said:
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Haldol and prolixin are covered by a lot of the plans. You would benefit.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 22, 2013)

Well, let's see what the ACA would do for a young couple, 30 and 28, nonsmokers, with two small children that between them make 45K a year. Most in that income category do not get insurance from their employer.

For the silver plan, $221 a month. 


Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation


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## Old Rocks (Oct 22, 2013)

These dingleberries are deathly afraid that by November of 2014, Americans will find that they like the ACA. And that they think that the major improvement would be a Universal Single Payer Health Care System based on an income tax on all income, at all levels.


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## Old Rocks (Oct 22, 2013)

And, of course, they are still into the whine, mewl, and puke bit from the asskicking they recieved from the American Citizens over the shutdown of the government for no reason at all. Congressional job approval at 9.2%;

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Congressional Job Approval


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> Well, let's see what the ACA would do for a young couple, 30 and 28, nonsmokers, with two small children that between them make 45K a year. Most in that income category do not get insurance from their employer.
> 
> For the silver plan, $221 a month.
> 
> ...



with a deductible of 5K per person,  why did you leave that out?


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> And, of course, they are still into the whine, mewl, and puke bit from the asskicking they recieved from the American Citizens over the shutdown of the government for no reason at all. Congressional job approval at 9.2%;
> 
> RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Congressional Job Approval



horseshit,   obozo and the dems do not want to delay the individual mandate because they are scared shitless that once the people find out what it is going to do to them personally, they will reject it completely.

they are determined to lock it in before the public finds out what it really is.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 22, 2013)

The Tea Party owes all Americans an apology.


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## Claudette (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > And, of course, they are still into the whine, mewl, and puke bit from the asskicking they recieved from the American Citizens over the shutdown of the government for no reason at all. Congressional job approval at 9.2%;
> ...



Don't know why anyone would pay any attention to Rocky. 

He wants single payer. The Govt running HC. Of course he's nuttier than a fruitcake. 

Who in their right mind would want Govt, Govt that has never run anything cheaply or well, Govt thats nothing but red tape, paperwork and waiting lines running their HC?? 

Good Gawd Rocky is one fucking nutter.


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## TooTall (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Matthew said:
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> > Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.
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Several hundred thousand Americans that don't have employer provided health insurance are SOL.  Many of the policies they have are being cancelled because of the Obamacare requirements for one size fits all insurance.


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## TooTall (Oct 22, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> These dingleberries are deathly afraid that by November of 2014, Americans will find that they like the ACA. And that they think that the major improvement would be a Universal Single Payer Health Care System* based on an income tax on all income, at all levels*.



Good luck on collecting federal income tax on the 50% that do not presently pay ANY federal income tax.

Ain't gonna happen, and I am sure Obama promised to not raise taxes on the middle class.  You do remember that don't you?  And now you say he is going to raise taxes on the working poor as well.  Aren't you ashamed?  LOL


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

TooTall said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > These dingleberries are deathly afraid that by November of 2014, Americans will find that they like the ACA. And that they think that the major improvement would be a Universal Single Payer Health Care System* based on an income tax on all income, at all levels*.
> ...



Not only that, but the poor blue collar worker who can't afford an obozocare policy will be fined when he files his taxes, so instead of the usual refund, he will get a bill from the IRS.    Then what libs?   Does the IRS garnish his pay to pay the penalty?   

This is terrible for middle class working people,  they are the ones getting screwed by ACA,  the poor will get it free, the rich can buy their own, and the middle class gets it up the butt as usual.


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## Jackson (Oct 22, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> It is incredible the opposition to a program that will eventually help America's working classes. Simply incredible the can't do or won't do attitude of the privileged in America.
> 
> 'Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare'
> 
> ...



And the Democrats are determined to have it stay that way through entitlements and enabling the poorest of our population to continue to stay on the governments Income Machine.  

Until we wean them off the government checks and make the minimum wage more appealing, we are not going to see the poorest of the population productive members of our society.

But now with Obamacare, no one will be able to get off the Government Income Machine.  Who would be able to afford those astronomical amounts we've heard of?  They will stay on GIMeeee!


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

Jackson said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> > It is incredible the opposition to a program that will eventually help America's working classes. Simply incredible the can't do or won't do attitude of the privileged in America.
> ...





de-weaning is easy,  stop sending the money.    increasing the minimum wage kills jobs.   Let the free market of supply and demand set the price of labor, not some artificial govt standard that is too low some places and too high in others.


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## Luddly Neddite (Oct 22, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> francoHFW said:
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> > Its success has nothing to do with the first weeks of its website....
> ...



Uh, no, you're wrong. 

rw's are not signing up. 

They're determined to keep their free Socialist heath care at the emergency room.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Geaux4it said:
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  uh, no. you are wrong.

once anyone sees the premiums, deductibles, and co-pays they laugh and close the website (if they are able to log in)


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
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They are eleigible to buy new policies through the exchanges, no?  And when they do, they will incur the benefits that others incur; no lifetime maximums, PEC's are accepted, kids stay on until they're 26, emphasis on preventative care vs. the more costly acute care, etc...


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


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there are 2 good things in the ACA,  companies must take people with pre-existing conditions, and no lifetime maximums.   The rest of it is crap.  Congress could have implemented those 2 things with a one paragraph bill.

Why the hell should a 26 year old adult still be on his/her parent's insurance???   thats fricken stupid.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> TooTall said:
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BTW,  your avatar of that bitch makes me want to piss on my computer monitor---but I won't


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## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


> The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare.  It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.



Tea Party is absolutely right about a lot of things and that is the reason it is being slammed not only from the rabid left ( it is expectable) and LSM, but also from RINOs and establishment, which much more prefer talks about doing something and going old way "business as usual" instead of really changing anything


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## birddog (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> candycorn said:
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Hey, I like the avatar.  It shows what makeup will do to help someone be attractive enough to give BJs!


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## LordBrownTrout (Oct 22, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> It is incredible the opposition to a program that will eventually help America's working classes. Simply incredible the can't do or won't do attitude of the privileged in America.
> 
> 'Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare'
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, obamacare will drive even more into welfare.  

Top 4 Obamacare Complaints - Yahoo Finance


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## Soggy in NOLA (Oct 22, 2013)

Yeah, who would have thunk that driving up demand and throwing tons of money at something would drive up the cost?


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> [
> 
> there are 2 good things in the ACA,  companies must take people with pre-existing conditions, and no lifetime maximums.   .



HAHAHAHA.  Now all the deadbeats like you will just wait till they have a health problem and then buy insurance.


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 22, 2013)

history will show the TPM as the great stain of the early 20th century, equal to segregation and a step below slavery.


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## birddog (Oct 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> history will show the TPM as the great stain of the early 20th century, equal to segregation and a step below slavery.



You are making progress to win the next Dumbass Award!  Congratulations!


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## Misty (Oct 22, 2013)

Obama outsourced the setting up of the computer site to canada. 

So he started off by giving American jobs to canadians.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Redfish said:
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Not me.   I have insurance, and medicare.   I am paying for my healthcare.    But the young people in the country will be better off to pay the penalty, or as you suggest, wait until they get sick and then buy a policy.

Obamacare changes nothing,  the poor still get it free and those of us who pay are paying for everyone else.

the only difference is that now we also have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> history will show the TPM as the great stain of the early 20th century, equal to segregation and a step below slavery.



History will show that the tea party movement was the first step towards returning the country to the constitution and freedom.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

Misty said:


> Obama outsourced the setting up of the computer site to canada.
> 
> So he started off by giving American jobs to canadians.



funny how not a single liberal will even address that.   I guess the truth just hurts them too much.


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## Misty (Oct 22, 2013)

"Since Obamacare is the president's legacy legislation, I was shocked to learn that the software used to sign up participants was outsourced to Canada. *The federal Buy American Act requires the U.S. government to use domestic products and services. *Are there not any American companies who can build reliable software?

U.S. software is the envy of the world. *Canadian software is not. *Apple, Xerox, Microsoft, Google, Oracle and many other American companies write excellent software and could have written software for the President's signature healthcare law. *The software for the Blackberry was written in Canada. *Would you rather have an iPhone with its U.S. software or a Blackberry with its Canadian software? Even Korean-based Samsung uses Google's Android software for its cellphones.* Consumers prefer iPhone and Android software operating systems, and the Blackberry has been relegated to the dustbin of history."

OpEdNews - Article: Outsourcing Obamacare


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

1.  People who need to obtain insurance primarily to comply with the mandate have until Februrary 15th to do so.

That's about 4 months away.

2.  About half the states are running the exchanges themselves;  people in those states are not even affected by problems with the national site.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> 1.  People who need to obtain insurance primarily to comply with the mandate have until Februrary 15th to do so.
> 
> That's about 4 months away.
> 
> 2.  About half the states are running the exchanges themselves;  people in those states are not even affected by problems with the national site.



"if you like your policy you can keep it"
"if you like your doctor you and keep him"
"ACA will save a family $2500/year"
"ACA will reduce the deficit"


LIES LIES  LIES   LIES.


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## Fang (Oct 22, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.
> 
> The success of this bill will make or break the democrats.



You actually believe that? If Obamacare fails Obama will blame the GOP and the stupid American voting public will buy it hook, line and sinker.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

Misty said:


> Obama outsourced the setting up of the computer site to canada.
> 
> So he started off by giving American jobs to canadians.



Ted Cruz is as Canadian as Maple syrup on a hockey puck...eh


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## birddog (Oct 22, 2013)

Misty said:


> Obama outsourced the setting up of the computer site to canada.
> 
> So he started off by giving American jobs to canadians.



It reminds me of when Obama bought the two expensive buses in Canada to the tune of a couple of million each.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

No Good News is Good News

Confronted With Example Of Obamacare Success, GOP Rep Freaks Out | ThinkProgress

    Though the federal HealthCare.gov appears to face serious technical problems, state-run marketplaces like Kentucky appear adapt at quickly fixing problems and are successfully enrolling people. In Kentucky, 10,766 applications for health coverage were initiated on the first day and 6,909 completed and 2,989 families were enrolled. Nearly 150,000 New Yorkers have signed up for Obamacare and 35,528 enrollments were completed in three weeks in Washington state.


    Take a deep breath, Beshear told CNN. The only thing that really isnt working right now on the federal level is the website. Ill guarantee you that whether its a week from now, a month from now, two months from now, theyll get it up and theyll get it working. People will be signing up.

    Confronted With Example Of Obamacare Success, GOP Rep Freaks Out

    By Igor Volsky on October 22, 2013 at 11:06 am

Confronted With Example Of Obamacare Success, GOP Rep Freaks Out | ThinkProgress


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


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Some people go to college and need to be on insurance a bit longer.  Some, like my assistant, have special needs kids who benefit greatly by the extended insurance stay.

Either way, it doesn't cost you a penny so you're "fricken stupid" for letting it bother you.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


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Why should your monitor be any different than the rest of the basement?


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

birddog said:


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You never needed the make-up.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

birddog said:


> Misty said:
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I am more reminded of when Bush 43 wanted to outsource American Port Security to a United Arab Emirates (UAE) corporation...


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## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


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and what is wrong with that?

btw, it is a lie that if you have pre-existing condition you were not able to get insurance. You were ablet o.
But the lie is still there.


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## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


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It costs him increase in taxes and increase in the cost of HIS insurance.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

GOP went from "shut down govt to deny access to affordable care" to "we demand immediate glitch-free access to affordable care" pretty fast
 [MENTION=44822]Jesse[/MENTION]clee44


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## depotoo (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> 1.  People who need to obtain insurance primarily to comply with the mandate have until Februrary 15th to do so.
> 
> That's about 4 months away.
> 
> 2.  About half the states are running the exchanges themselves;  people in those states are not even affected by problems with the national site.



so are you telling me that this administration outsourced over half a billion $$$ for something that only half the states even needed?    Wow, this just gets worse and worse for this administration.

Have any idea how much those exchanges spent to get their exchanges up and running and how they are working?  What do you bet it is half pennnies on the dollars on this failed fed project


----------



## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

JakeStarkey said:


> history will show the TPM as the great stain of the* early 20th century*, equal to segregation and a step below slavery.





dumb leftards have problems with basic math


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

birddog said:


> Misty said:
> 
> 
> > Obama outsourced the setting up of the computer site to canada.
> ...



Obama's Canadian-American Bus

"The presidents been on a jobs tour," Texas Gov. Perry said. "As a matter of fact, we kinda crossed  we didnt cross paths, but we were in the same state together, Iowa. He had his big old bus, his big old $1.2 million bus  made in Canada."
*
Here's the story on the bus. It was one of two custom buses ordered by the Secret Service in July 2010 from Hemphill Brothers Coach Company in Whites Creek, Tenn.,* at a total cost of nearly $2.2 million, according to Secret Service spokesman George Ogilvie and purchasing documents. *The shell of the bus was, in fact, procured from a Canadian company, Prevost, a Quebec-based firm that specializes in the manufacturing of bus shells for the high-end conversion market* (think pop stars, corporate buses, etc.). Although the buses were purchased from an American company, the Secret Service was aware the shell came from Canada, Ogilvie told us. In fact, the contract with Hemphill filed in the Federal Procurement Data System lists "Canada" as the "country of product origin."


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



And there you have it.

The progressive way of thinking.


----------



## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



You obviously do not understand how insurance works,   it costs all of us to keep 26 year old adults on their parents policies.   If you are still in college at 26, you are either in medicine, law, or some advanced degree.   If you can afford the tuition, you can afford insurance.  

If you are still in college at 26 trying to get a 4 year degree, then the taxpayers should not be subsidizing your below par educational performance.


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## depotoo (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Is she simply naive or does she really think noone has any costs involved?


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> GOP went from "shut down govt to deny access to affordable care" to "we demand immediate glitch-free access to affordable care" pretty fast
>  [MENTION=44822]Jesse[/MENTION]clee44



we had affordable healthcare before obozocare.   those who could afford it, paid for insurance,  the poor got it free.    It will be exactly the same under ACA,  except we now have to pay for a huge govt beaurocracy that will slow everything down.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

depotoo said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



its that defective liberal gene,  we see it every day


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## healthmyths (Oct 22, 2013)

Vox said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > history will show the TPM as the great stain of the* early 20th century*, equal to segregation and a step below slavery.
> ...



Truth is EVEN conservatives and MANY people on this board DON'T seem to understand simple MATH!
I've hundreds of times TRIED to get people to comprehend that ACA was passed by 7 votes based on the lie there was 46 million people that wanted health insurance!
18 million never needed, are under 34 make over $50k but spend less then the cost of employers insurance... SO why are they included in the 46 million??
14 million don't know all they need due to their income level qualify for Medicaid... YET they have been included!  Already qualified.. don't need ACA!
10 million are not citizens!
That's 42 million people counted as "uninsured' that don't want, don't know, and aren't legal!  Leaves 4 million truly that need insurance!

It would be so cheap to set up a government program that forces every time these people go to hospital uninsured to have the hospitals BILL Medicare!
But instead the hospitals do as this CEO said when asked how hospitals recoup their "uninsured" costs?
"How do hospitals deal with the cost of the  uninsured? Like any  business, we pass it on to the paying customers.
From PAGE 1 of this document: 
http://www.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

Force the hospitals to send claims for uninsured and it would STILL be cheaper then destruction of our health system!
The hospitals are recouping it by PADDING AND PASSING on to Medicare/insurance companies!
So what does Medicare/insurance companies do???   Pass these costs to premium payers and tax payers!!!


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

depotoo said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



People just don't get it.

It is not rocket science to pass a law that states..."all insurance companies can no longer deny someone insurance due to pre existing conditions"

Likewise, it is not rocket science to pass a law that states..."all those that can not afford insurance must get government subsidies to allow for the purchase of insurance"

What makes those two things difficult to implement is the fact that both will result in extraordinarily higher costs to those that do NOT benefit from those initiatives.

And it is quite obvious that the ACA does not defeat that issue.


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## Claudette (Oct 22, 2013)

Nope. The only winners will be those the rest of us are forced to subsidize. 

There are 21 tax increases in the ACA.

Anyone who thinks the folks  who have HC through an employer won't be paying more  is a fucking idiot.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...





share the wealth, share the pain, and all dance around the may pole singing 'I'd like to buy the world a coke'

liberals do not live in the real world.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Vox said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Not sure what you mean by taxes related to someone staying on your insurance.
As for the insurance going up...no.  Lets say I had a daughter and her birthday was today; she turns 19.  I'm not paying any more for her insurance than I was paying yesterday.  

You're making a factually incorrect statement.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



If I had a daughter, and she turned 19 today, she would all of the sudden start costing YOU if I kept her on my insurance?  Was she costing YOU any money for years 0-18?  



Redfish said:


> If you are still in college at 26, you are either in medicine, law, or some advanced degree.   If you can afford the tuition, you can afford insurance.
> If you are still in college at 26 trying to get a 4 year degree, then the taxpayers should not be subsidizing your below par educational performance.



Good thing  they're not doing that.


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## Edgetho (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



What would give you that impression?


*New Obamacare Ad In Colorado Features Bros Doing A Keg Stand  Update: The Bros Go Golfing!*

Seriously, this is not a joke.







*Update *Another one featuring the bros.


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Vox said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



you just don't get it.

No....you are not paying anymore than yesterday. But someone who bought insurance today will pay more because of all of those that are now paying the same prmiums despite their 25 year olds being added to the policies.

and in time, as policies go up for renewal, so will everyone.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



But you leave out things like the fact that insurance companies now have to get their medical loss ratios up to 85%, or refund the difference to their customers.

People have already received refund checks for that.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Vox said:
> ...


Okay.




Jarhead said:


> But someone who bought insurance today will pay more because of all of those that are now paying the same prmiums despite their 25 year olds being added to the policies.


How so?  

The insurance companies are getting millions of more dollars because of this...8 more years of insurance premiums I otherwise wouldn't be paying.  

Why would someone who may not be buying from the same company's policy go up or cost more to start with if the Insurance company has more policy holders?  

If anything, it would seem as though the new policy you're talking about would go down which is why group insurance is more than individual policies--there are by definition more people in the group.  I guess there could be some scenarios where you are buying from Humana and I'm buying from Aetna or Cigna, the prices will fluctuate depending on the overall size of the group.  



Jarhead said:


> and in time, as policies go up for renewal, so will everyone.



That I can see, every open enrollment period, the prices inch upward; sometimes 50 bucks per month as I recall, sometimes less.


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## Claudette (Oct 22, 2013)

Of course she doesn't get it. She doesn't want to get it. She doesn't want to admitt that the ACA is a trainwreck.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Edgetho said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



Sam needs some golf shoes and to bend his left knee more.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 1.  People who need to obtain insurance primarily to comply with the mandate have until Februrary 15th to do so.
> ...




Your post has nothing to do with my post.  Please grow up.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 22, 2013)

Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?

Of course not.

*A Staunch Republican Tries Obamacare ... And Discovers That It's Actually Pretty Awesome*

*"...Butch Matthews, a 61-year-old former small business owner from Little Rock, Arkansas. Matthews, a diehard Republican, was skeptical of Obamacare. But the new law has already allowed him to buy insurance that is both much better, and much cheaper, than the astronomically expensive pre-Obamacare plan he was clinging to from Blue Cross Blue Shield.

Matthews' old Blue Cross plan cost $1,069 a month and had a $10,000 deductible.

The plan he just bought on the Arkansas state exchange has a $0 premium (after the government subsidy he gets because of his low income level) and only a $750 deductible. It's also a "Silver" plan, which has much better benefits than the vastly more expensive "Bronze" plan he ditched.

Mukherjee asked Matthews whether he had any advice for fellow Republicans now that he has learned that Obamacare actually isn't that bad.

Here's what he had to say:

I would tell them to learn more about it before they start talking bad about it....*

A Republican Discovers He Likes Obamacare - Business Insider


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



lol....a blast from the past.....starry-eyed liberal do-gooders selling Coke....today it's health insurance....

of course the 'real thing'.....the truth.....is ignored as both Coke and Obamacare are bad for your health.....


----------



## Flopper (Oct 22, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.
> 
> 
> The success of this bill will make or break the democrats.


It sounds like the major problem is the registration process.  They have added a button on the homepage, "See Plans Now" so people can check the cost of the plans without going through registration.  This will help a lot since most of the traffic has been people checking on the cost and details of the plans.  I just tried it to check plan costs in a few states and it worked fine.  Give it a try.  Apparently, IT rushed to get this function on the site because it does not include the subsidies.  
https://www.healthcare.gov/

This will make the site run a lot faster, which in itself will solve a number of problems, but there are still other problems to be fixed.  I find it remarkable that this function was not included in the federal website.  It seems to be in all the state managed websites which are running without the glitches in the federal site.  I suspect that the most serious problems on this website will be fixed in a matter of days, however the perception of problems fueled by the opposition to the ACA will last much longer.


What happened to Healthcare.gov? | Healthcare IT News


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## Edgetho (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > depotoo said:
> ...



Do you know how easy it is to do that?  It is so simple, it's amazing.

You just start laying people off.

Simple.


----------



## Edgetho (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



His post had EVERYTHING to do with your post.  It's filled with lies from beginning to end.


----------



## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Look at it this way.....

My 23 year old son had an option....buy his own insurance or risk it without buying insurance and hope he doesn't need it.

1)If he bought insurance, he would pay 2500 a year (arbitrary number)....he would likely benefit from about 500 after his deductible....for his annual visit and perhaps medication...so the insurance company profited 2000 off of him.

2)If he passed on insurance, the insurance company is a non factor.

Now?

3) He no longer pays the 2500.....and he is on my policy....and if he uses 500 as he did in example 1...that is a negative 500 to the insurance company for my policy premium has not changed yet for him being an addition

So when you compare 1 to 3....there is a total bottom line difference of 2500 to the insurance company.


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> ...



No offense......but I have trouble believing a 12,500 a year premium for 10,000 deductible policy.

And, besides....of course the ACA is good for those that will have a zero premium. Who would ever argue that?


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



*So in #3, you're stating that you'er getting free insurance for you and him?  *

Most people--in fact every one I've ever met who has kids on their insurance--pays for them.
But if you're one of the few whose insurance is free for you and your family...I guess you have a point.  I think most people pay for their kids being on their insurance though.

Nice that you're worried about the insurance company's profits though.  Take heart, Obamacare will mean more people than ever will be on insurance.  More than making up for the $2,500 hole you've forecasted.


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



No CC...

I do not get insurance for free.

I have a family plan.

At one point I had all 4 of us on it.

Then it went down to three.

Then down to two (my wife and I).

Now it went back to 4...although my older one is getting his won as he is hitting the 26 mark.

But my premium did not change due to the amount of people on the plan.

They never do. A family plan is a family plan...whether you have 1 kid or 100 kids.


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



why must you spin?

Spin ruins a good conversation.

I don't give a crap about anyone's profits but my own.

Citing the revenue net to the insurance company had to do with explaining WHY premiums will have no place to go but UP at a skyrocket pace...

If their net decreases, premiums will need to increase.


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## RandallFlagg (Oct 22, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


> The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare.  It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.




It's actually more than just "shutting something down". This is about government taking more and more  and more power - and taking more and more and more freedom.

Our illustrious "government" is growing faster than any other concern in America. We are literally putting ourselves into slavery with this behemoth. NOTHING good will come from this and we have done it to ourselves.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

midcan5 said:


> It is incredible the opposition to a program that will eventually help America's working classes. Simply incredible the can't do or won't do attitude of the privileged in America.
> 
> 'Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare'
> 
> ...



If young people and "students" are so concerned about health care, why aren't they excited about signing up? It appears that if something, such as this need to find affordable health care (which is a lie in itself), is SO big and popular, you wouldn't be looking to gimmicks in an attempt to coax them into buying into this program. You wouldn't have to turn to polls, find spokesmen, famous actors or artists, the plan (IF it was that good for Americans) would simply be able to sell itself. Yes Obama. Apple has a few glitches on their iPhones so there was no need to stop producing them and shut it down..... HOWEVER, Apple IS finding extensively long lines of young people just waiting to get their hands on one WITHOUT the need to produce any coaxing nudge from a celebrity. You simply can't boast the same results for THIS Health Care mess.

Polls and speeches - vs - "get your head out of the clouds" reality, are two TOTALLY different things.


----------



## NoTeaPartyPleez (Oct 22, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> These dingleberries are deathly afraid that by November of 2014, Americans will find that they like the ACA. And that they think that the major improvement would be a Universal Single Payer Health Care System based on an income tax on all income, at all levels.



*As did the residents of Massachusetts and the citizens of Canada.*


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> midcan5 said:
> 
> 
> > It is incredible the opposition to a program that will eventually help America's working classes. Simply incredible the can't do or won't do attitude of the privileged in America.
> ...



because young people are not as stupid as barry and the dems think they are.   They are not going to pay high premiums so old people and poor people can get free medical care.

they will just say 'screw it' and pay the penalty,  or if they have no tax liability just get off scott free.  

the whole ACA is a fraud.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > These dingleberries are deathly afraid that by November of 2014, Americans will find that they like the ACA. And that they think that the major improvement would be a Universal Single Payer Health Care System based on an income tax on all income, at all levels.
> ...



LOL,  better do some checking "dingleberry".   The canadians are moving back to free market medical care.   Their canadian obozocare is failing them big time.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...





Never is a long time...

Here is the plan for a couple and kids from healthcare.gov
Health Net CommunityCare HMO Open Access Basic 0%/0%/$6350 
Health Net of Arizona
HMO | Catastrophic
Estimated monthly premium for You, your spouse, and your children
$354.12

Here is the plan for a couple with no kids from healthcare.gov
Health Net CommunityCare HMO Open Access Basic 0%/0%/$6350 
Health Net of Arizona
HMO | Catastrophic
Estimated monthly premium for You and your spouse
$255.70

You are paying almost $100 more for having kids on your plan.  I see what you're saying.  You're be paying $100 more if you had 1 kid on your plan or 100.  But earlier you indicated that there are no additional monies going to the insurance companies due to having kids on your health plan.  In truth, you're paying $100 or so more than you would be if the cut off were still 18.  

There does seem to be a loophole for multiple kids and I see your point.

However, the 40+ million *new* customers that will be buying insurance will likely make up for this loophole with the insurance companies.


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## Redfish (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



I assume that the $6350 is what you have to pay out of pocket before the insurance pays anything-------------and you somehow think thats a good deal????


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



first off....that 40 million number has yet to been proven and to the contrary, it has been largely disproved.....but putting that aside....

the "loophole" you see is just one issue...

Then there is the other issue....the bigger issue.....

Pre existing condition clauses were inserted into the insurance industry as a means to maintain the reason for insurance to begin with....people were not looking at it as insurance. They were looking at it as a "means to cut expenses". They refused to buy insurance until they NEEDED healthcare. They would break a leg....THEN buy insurance.

Dental insurance rectified the problem by not allowing the policy to go into affect for 6 months....eliminating those that bought the policy AFTER they broke a tooth.

Hurricane insurance rectified the problem by not allowing it to go into affect for 30 days....eliminating those that would try to buy it when they saw a hurricane coming.

But it was not so easy for health insurance for a variety of reasons.

So lets look at what we have now....

I am 30 years old (I wish). I don't want to pay the 5000 a year for a policy. I am healthy. I don't need it. I prefer paying the 700 tax/penalty.

But...if I find out I have a serious ailment? THEN I will buy a policy.

And I cant be denied because it is now against the law.

THAT is going to be the true reason why premiums will skyrocket....insurance companies will ultimately go under...and we will be in a single payer plan within one decade.

And whereas you may think that is a good thing, the majority of Americans don't want it.

But that is a debate for another day.


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> ...



What a bunch of hogwash...^

It appears that Butch could have applied for Medicaid help BEFORE if he qualifies now for aid...also plans for those getting financial help MUST be Silver or better...

There is really no "better" plan......as all Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum plans cover the SAME Essential Health Benefits....

The only real differences among the plans is 
1) how much you pay upfront and 
2) how much of the total costs the plans cover....

You need to be aware of these cost factors when choosing among the 4 plans:
     Deductibles
     Copayments
     Coinsurance
     Annual Out Of Pocket Limit (2014 limits set at $6,350 ind/$12,700 fam)

On average a Bronze plan will cover about 60% of the total covered medical expenses and you must pay the remaining 40%....(up to the annual out of pocket limit)

Silver covers about 70%
Gold 80%
Platinum 90%...

How To Choose Between Bronze, Silver, Gold And Platinum Health Insurance Plans - Forbes


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## Flopper (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?
> ...


Under the law, the maximum amount a consumer with an individual plan with single coverage will pay in 2014 including deductibles and copay excluding premiums will generally be $6,350 while a family could pay up to $12,700.  There are some plans listed on the exchanges that do have high deductibles that exceed the out of pocket maximums in which case the deductible should be disregarded because it is out of pocket maximum that's important.  So it be would legal to list a plan with a $10,000 deductible and $12,000 premium but it would be meaningless because of the lower out of pocket maximums.  Insurance companies are now required by law to spend 80% of the premium on healthcare expenses therefore if premiums are out of line with benefits paid, the company has to rebate to customers the excess.

Federal Rule Allows Higher Out-Of-Pocket Spending For One Year - Kaiser Health News


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > midcan5 said:
> ...



Here is the other thought. If ACA provides health care to those who can't afford it, like the poor, where is the incentive for them to work? I mean why even seek employment so that you would have to then eventually pay for health care to meet a mandate, when you can choose not to work and allow our government (to be specific, the taxpayer) to simply provide a plan at no cost to you? Great incentive idea for the economy Mr. president.


----------



## Pop23 (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Misty said:
> 
> 
> > Obama outsourced the setting up of the computer site to canada.
> ...



^^^^^^MOONBAT DEFLECTION WARNING^^^^^^^

I wasn't aware Ted Cruz wrote software. 

Carry on


----------



## Edgetho (Oct 22, 2013)

Funny stuff:

*Video: Carney Bolts Press Briefing Room After Repeatedly Refusing To Answer Questions About Obamacare*

They asked him about the failed tests in the days leading up to the launch, he referred them to HHS:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UxsbEDDi7lA]W.H. Refers Reporters To HHS When Asked About Failed ObamaCare Tests - YouTube[/ame]

Asked him about decision to bring on Jeff Zients to help fix the problems, he referred them to HHS: 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RhEgD82roVk]W.H. Refers Reporters To HHS When Asked About Zients's Role - YouTube[/ame]

Asked him about the costs associated with fixing the site, he referred them to HHS: 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XO29yvefhSI]W.H. Refers Reporters To HHS When Asked About Costs Of Fixing ObamaCare - YouTube[/ame]

Asked about the tech surge, referred them to HHS:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wTBBwIWuaP8]W.H. Refers Reporters To HHS When Asked About Tech Surge Team - YouTube[/ame]

And finally, he bolts the briefing room before they could ask him another question that he would inevitably referred back to HHS: 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mpOXj_7mkms]Jay Carney Leaves Briefing Room Amid Questions About ObamaCare - YouTube[/ame]

When dimocraps run out of lies, they're actually --

Speechless


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## Flopper (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...


You're not considering the fact that after the first year, insurance exchanges will be accepting application only between Oct and Dec. with a plan start date of Jan 1.  For employer sponsored insurance, you can only sign up for insurance during open enrollment which is once a year for most companies buy can be less frequent.  So if a person had a serious accident or illness, they will have to wait up to a year, sometimes longer before coverage begins.  Also, by 2017 the penalty for most people for not carrying insurance with be about $2,000/yr for each year there is no coverage.  

A strategy of waiting till you're ill to buy insurance, does not make sense when considering the risks and rewards.  For a family, it would be a really dumb move.


----------



## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



There are a lot of dumb people out there unfortunately.  But yeah.  If the system were set up differently and you had 4 trillion years to get insurance, you'd still have people waiting until the deadline.  Regardless of the system, there will be people gaming it.  I don't think there ever has been a "game-proof" system


----------



## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



Flopper answered your inquiry about buy-when-you-need.

I keep hearing "most Americans don't want it".  Obama was re-elected; the Senate stayed in the hands of the Dems.  Either the voters are catatonic or there isn't as much angst as is being advertised.  

Additionally, it seems as though I recall the health insurance industry signing off on the deal.  Are you saying the industry made a mis-calculation of this magnitude?


----------



## healthmyths (Oct 22, 2013)

Neotrotsky said:


> Of course,
> there is this lie
> 
> There are 400,000 jobs just right around the corner..
> ...



Well that's interesting!
So Obamacare will supply 400,000 jobs?
Actually that figure should be supplying 800,000 jobs and here is why!
Obama said:"I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program" 
So if Obama WANTS a single payer, what happens to the current 1,300 health insurance payer companies and their 400,000 employees?

If Pelosi also wants single payer as Obama does.. THAT means 1,300 companies no longer in business.
1) $100 BILLION a year these companies pay in Federal/State/Local taxes and local property taxes... WHAT happens if Obama's preference becomes true?
2) 400,000 insurance companies' employees lose their jobs meaning no more federal/state/local taxes PLUS these 400,000 will need unemployment insurance!


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



There may have been some issues with Romney and his faith as a Mormon that kept some from voting not simply his views, which left Barrack Obama as the nation's consolation prize. The real question is, if the people were satisfied with Obamacare and the Democrats why did Nancy Pelosi lose her seat? After all, wasn't all the drama and the issue with blue dog Democrats, on the House side of the legislative branch?


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## RandallFlagg (Oct 22, 2013)

healthmyths said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > Of course,
> ...



Trust me - you're not far off.  This is nothing more than the harbinger for a complete socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry.  It is coming.  

And these piss ants on this forum will welcome it with open arms. It will be like the Nazis marching into Paris.

It's coming.


----------



## TooTall (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Jarhead said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Hell yes the insurance companies signed off on the deal.  The promise by Obama of 30 million new health insurance customers, all paid in full by the US Government.  In addition, millions more will be partially funded on their policies with the full faith and credit of Uncle Sugar.
They would have been foolish not to see that bird nest on the ground.


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## healthmyths (Oct 22, 2013)

Lemmings!
Not one of the Obamacare supporters THINK for themselves!
Lemmings!
It is so obvious that the Obamacare site would be huge flop simply because NOT ONE of them seem to be able to do simple math!
For example... When you subtract 42 million from 46 million what is the difference?   4 Million!
Right?  Is that correct?
So tell me why these idiots don't seem to understand that:
18 million under 34 make over $50,000 DON'T WANT, DON"T NEED health insurance!  They don't need to spend more for their employers' plans!
14 million are people at a poverty level that are right now, immediately all need do is register with Medicaid THEY Are counted as uninsured!  Wrong!
10 million are not citizens YET they are counted as "uninsured"!

42 million from 46 million is 4 million!

So if these idiots can't even figure out that there are NOT 46 million but 4 million  WHAT would any one expect in their future management skills of 1/6th of the economy!!!


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## healthmyths (Oct 22, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



If they signed off then tell me why these MAJOR companies aren't participating???

*Aetna (AET, Fortune 500*) has actually pulled out of at least five exchanges after submitting proposals in 14 states. Its policies will not be found on the exchanges in Maryland, New York, Georgia, Ohio or its home state of Connecticut. The insurer recently bought Coventry Health Plans, which had also filed to be on several state exchanges, so Aetna is now reviewing both companies' remaining fillings.

"We believe it is critical that our plans not only be competitive, but also financially viable, in order to meet the long-term needs of the exchanges in which we choose to participate," the company said last month after withdrawing from the New York exchange. It will offer individual plans outside of Obamacare in the Empire State.

*UnitedHealthcare (UNH, Fortune 500) *is also planning limited participation in the new exchanges, at least for 2014. The company said it is taking its time to evaluate the exchanges, which it believes have the potential to be a growth market. It is only participating in about a dozen exchanges next year.
"[We] see 2014 as just the very start of the exchange markets," said spokesman Tyler Mason.

*For Cigna (CI, Fortune 500),* the decision came down to its customer base. A giant player in the employer market, Cigna is relatively new to the individual insurance side of the business. So it decided to join the exchanges in only the five states where it writes 80% of its individual policies, said spokesman Joseph Mondy. But Cigna will continue to offer plans outside the exchange in all 10 states where it is involved in the individual market.


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## RandallFlagg (Oct 22, 2013)

healthmyths said:


> Lemmings!
> Not one of the Obamacare supporters THINK for themselves!
> Lemmings!
> It is so obvious that the Obamacare site would be huge flop simply because NOT ONE of them seem to be able to do simple math!
> ...



Look, here's the deal (at least to me) on this whole debacle:

634 MILLION spent on "getting ready" just to have the whole thing exposed for the incompetent mess that it is.  3/4 of a BILLION DOLLARS!!!!!

That turkey-necked broad sebellius will NOT be held accountable - Barry keeps his "buds" close at all times - just like a gang of thugs.

That same "roll-out" could have been done SUCCESSFULLY by a team from Microsoft or even Apple for 50 MILLION.

The "Little Napoleon" Obama will NEVER take responsibility for this mess - he refuses to accept responsibility for anything, let alone this screw up.

Welcome to Democrat rule.


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## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Vox said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



you should not make any statements if you do not know the issue. Yes, obamacare is an increase in many taxes for many Americans - you may check it here:ObamaCare Tax: Full List of ObamaCare Taxes

and for ALL on medical device tax plus obamacare is a TAX by itself - therefore all who are actually paying for their increased premiums and deductibles - are being extensively taxed

and your fictituous daughter may stay on your insurance but you will be paying more fr her, as everybody is going to pay more ( unless you get subsidies), but then you make me to pay for you and your daughter.

Anyway around - obamacare is a huge increase in taxes for ordinary Americans through a lot of venues - if you think you are not being taxed, you might want to check how it is falling on you even if you are subsidied.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



She didn't lose her seat, simply the role of Majority Leader.  I remember the town halls in 2010 that caused quite a stir that year before much of the ACA was enacted.  Somehow in 2012...barely a peep when more of it was enacted.  Doesn't bode well for the "We hate this thing" argument that as more of it is implemented, the outrage becomes a whisper.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



Well according to   [MENTION=22181]Jarhead[/MENTION], the insurance companies are going to go broke...

Please settle on a scare tactic and let us know how it comes out.


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## candycorn (Oct 22, 2013)

Vox said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Vox said:
> ...



I usually pay a bit more every year for health insurance anyway...I did that under Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and the first term of BHO...  I didn't expect it to change.


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

Matthew said:


> Obama needs to fix the site and make sure his system works.
> 
> 
> The success of this bill will make or break the democrats.



Yup.... RIP Democrat Party

The grand opening was a complete flop and it only gets worse for Democrats from there.

alas.. they have no one to blame but themselves, even though they'll desperately try...


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## Jarhead (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...



the young professionals who were unmarried traditionally gamed the game...took the chance....and seeing as they are the ones who will be paying for the older "more likely to use the insurance", we cant have them game the game.

But 700 is not nearly enough to endure they spend 4000 and 3000 deductible....

It jusyt wont work.

I cant see it.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
> 
> 
> > The Tea Party shut down the govt in an attempt to get obozocare dropped and now even obozo admits his signature legislation is an internet nightmare.  It's not gonna get fixed in time and Ted Cruz was 100% right in trying to stop it.
> ...



This is the reality...you are misinformed....


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## RandallFlagg (Oct 22, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



Frankly, it DOES work. Here's how: Uncle Sugar is absolutely counting on those 20-30 somethings to pay their 300-400 premium each and every month in order to pay for those who are 45-60 years of age.

these young 'uns rarely hit the Doctor's office so it's a short-term win-win situation for Uncle Sugar.

Funny thing, though...those 20-30 somethings get older. They begin to need medicines, they need care....they need hospitalizations...on and on. The duductibles will bankrupt the majority of these families - too bad.

This whole nonsense is like a street thug playing three card monty on the corner. Suckers come along constantly and think they can "spot the ace" - while they lose their money. 

Welcome to Obarrycare!!


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

Redfish said:


> NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> 
> 
> > Old Rocks said:
> ...



Iam wondering if you have a link or source for your assertions..


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## RandallFlagg (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > ShootSpeeders said:
> ...



You really need to become acquainted with reality my friend and what the term "power grab" means. When you finally come to your senses, come back and we'll talk.


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > ShootSpeeders said:
> ...



How could a President/Congress double the national debt and this chart be an honest appraisal?


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...


"socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry." is an empty phrase with no sense or meaning...its like scaring kids with "the Boogyman"...there is no Boogyman...yeah sure exactly like Nazis


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



The phrase "power grab" is meaningless...I am at my senses...


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## emilynghiem (Oct 22, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> ...



Hi NYC this is a good start. But choice is still better than force.
The sooner we could move toward everyone having a  FREE CHOICE to buy and participate, we can quit fighting over it.

If I were single and either in school or without a job, of the two choices:
(a) NOT "getting pregnant then having an abortion" 
OR 
(b) "getting pregnant and having an abortion or having the baby"
of course, (a) not getting pregnant and not having an abortion would be a better choice than (b).

*But I would not want some state law or federal govt forcing the "better decision on me" under penalty of law!
*

That's extreme but do you see the point? Just because it works out better as choice doesn't mean it is govt's job to impose that on you.

I know someone who is proposing a BETTER system based on FREE CHOICE.

So given the two choices, fine, why not choose which system you think works best for you?

Why this INSISTENCE on only imposing one way to pay for health care, through insurance regulated by the mandates through federal govt?

Other examples:

EX 1: spiritual healing works effectively, is free with no side effects and does not clash with medical or other therapy, and has cured cancer, diabetes, schizophrenia and criminal illness/addictions. yet it only works by choosing it FREELY. the type of "faith healing" that gets forced on people or has money involved tends to FAIL.

so even if you find out it works, and I do have skeptic and even atheist friends who found out it works, you STILL DON'T IMPOSE IT BY LAW OR THREATEN FINES OR PENALTIES

you CHOOSE to participate. This could work better with people CHOOSING it.

EX 2: when Obama changed his mind on gay marriage, and decided he support it,
he DID SO BY FREE CHOICE. it wasn't a law or govt mandate or court ruling that made him.
so why not allow all people that same FREE CHOICE to decide and follow their beliefs?

does it make any sense for Obama to freely change his mind without force of law
and then turn around and want to side with political lobbying to impose this by law?

with my prolife friends, I point out that all of their beliefs and work to prevent abortion
is all done by FREE CHOICE not by force of law. I have never lost that argument that
laws are not necessary for them to do the work they do that can get rid of abortion freely

sadly where I lose is trying to explain the same concept of free choice to prochoice people

I have better success explaining constitutional free choice to prolife advocates who are called "antichoice" but cannot seem to explain very well to prochoice people who are bent on using the federal govt to set up their mandatory payer system instead of using their parties or other existing organizations to run it and pay for it themselves.

It is disturbing and sad to me, that choices for health care that would work effectively to reduce costs yet be followed by free choice are PENALIZED AND PRECLUDED by the ACA regulations, while the choices offered are MANDATORY, do not cover all people, and discriminate against people who want other choices but face penalties and are forced to pay for insurance instead of having equal free choice to invest in other programs, including better solutions that would cover more people PARTICIPATING BY FREE CHOICE and hold them financially responsible.

it is sad people aren't allowed to believe in and fund those options, including spiritual healing which has been proven effective and to cut costs but can't be legislated by govt,
but the govt is actually requiring people to believe and fund unproven ones or fine them.


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## emilynghiem (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> "socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry." is an empty phrase with no sense or meaning...its like scaring kids with "the Boogyman"...there is no Boogyman...yeah sure exactly like Nazis



Hi Tyrone I will copy and send that graph to my bf who can usually spot misinformation or biased propaganda.

I agree with Greens Occupy Independents and Libertarians I have discussed alternatives with, on the idea of collecting back on the corrupt war spending on illicit contracts, and use those funds to pay for health care instead of charging taxpayers more. Why not pay back taxes from corporate/govt misspending first. Some of my friends who want singlepayer support this in between stage as a step to move forward; but it is curious to me this is NOT based on actually wanting to pay for it themselves, but only on the premise/assumption that (a) others even opponents will pay for it (b) these people will agree to the same policies once these are put in the hands of govt. what makes you think your opponents will set up the system the way you want. so this is curious to me, these singlepayer people who want to use federal or state govt for this totally discount that anyone with any other views or options should be equally considered or represented at all. they assume their ideas are the best or only ones that will work; if so, why do you have to impose it or make other people pay for it; shouldn't it be carried well enough by the people who believe in those? that is the part I really do not get; it seems so self-conflicting

as for socialist takeover I agree that may or may not be proveable.

what I can prove is that this federal mandate with insurance violates prochoice principles of "keeping govt out of private choices." it discriminates and only accommodates those who believe in the limited choices offered as doing more good than harm. it precludes and penalizes those who want the free choice of other means of paying for and providing health services/coverage.

so that in and of itself harms the integrity and consistency of Constitutional ethics and equal inclusion and representation. i worry it reinforces biases and rewards political bullying, so much that it blinds the people to any notion they are doing it. They really believe they are defending what is right, and really do not believe the opposing views have validity at all.

This is dangerous as it amounts to pushing a political religion as the only one by law.
So that is worse than socialism but spreading skewed perceptions, like conditioning people not to respond to cries for help from someone being raped because you blame the victim.


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

emilynghiem said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Of course the real life real world positive stories about Obamacare, do the Obama haters around here post them?
> ...



Quite an interesting and ponderous post...members like interesting but no so much on the ponderous.. Welcome to the USMB


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > NoTeaPartyPleez said:
> ...



Here is some information regarding Canada's Health Care and it's decision to include private health insurance.



> The Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that the Quebec government cannot prevent people from paying for private insurance for health-care procedures covered under medicare.
> 
> In a 4-3 decision, the panel of seven justices said *banning private insurance for a list of services ranging from MRI tests to cataract surgery was unconstitutional* under the Quebec Charter of Rights, *given that the public system has failed to guarantee patients access to those services in a timely way.*
> 
> CBC News - Top court strikes down Quebec private health-care ban





> In 2011, health care spending consumed 50 percent of revenues in Canada&#8217;s two largest provinces, Ontario and Quebec.
> 
> By 2017, four more provinces &#8212; Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia and New Brunswick &#8212; will spend half of their revenues on health care, according to the institute.
> 
> ...


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

Lumpy 1 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



The same way as if you divorce and your ex spouse has left you bills that are now coming in and that spouse has subtracted from income by a tax cut so you have a double whammy to deal with...that is how that happens.. It is not that you are spending heavily and irresponsibly..


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

emilynghiem said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > "socialist takeover of the entire healthcare industry." is an empty phrase with no sense or meaning...its like scaring kids with "the Boogyman"...there is no Boogyman...yeah sure exactly like Nazis
> ...



If you can prove it then lets see the proof...


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...



So your blaming the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of the Bush Presidency, that's mostly fair, they did control the purse strings and over-site of the housing bubble.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



The Daily Caller is a creation of Tucker Carlson.. I have no confidence in his editorial or intellectual integrity.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

Lumpy 1 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...




That Congress did not approve the tax cuts that drive deficits and the two wars and the Medicare part d was already approved ...


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > ShootSpeeders said:
> ...




Interesting since that's not the projected debt the CBO is stating after Obama's 8 years in office.



> The Congressional Budget Office projects that over his 8 years in office, the Administration will have engaged in $7.5 trillion in deficit-spending  and the national debt will almost double.
> 
> MISERY INDEX IS ABOUT TO SOAR


----------



## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...



However it's the Canadian Supreme Court, and not the daily caller, which opened the door to private health care, as well as acknowledged the flaws found through the government form of controlling health care.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



yes but those expenditures are not all  from Obama initiatives...they are existent liabilities...


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...



That is a Judicial decision and not a system wide move towards private health care...


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...



The 2 wars were paid for during the Bush years and Medicare part D (yet another socialist plan) Democrats accepted it as a complete success.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

Lumpy 1 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...



The two wars were KEPT OFF BUDGET AND HAVE NOT AS YOU CLAIM BEEN PAID FOR...the Prescription part d was opposed by Democrats and it took an extraordinary extension of voting into the wee hours by Tom Delay to get it passed by the skin of its teeth.

Now please look at this chart and describe what you see


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...



This link may help you to understand the errors in your perspective..

Democrat and (Democrat lite) Republican sponsored social programs are sinking the country.

Blame for the national debt | Just Facts Daily


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...




Hate to burst your bubble since you've really grown attached to your nice colored graph, but let's start things off with just ONE concrete fact that should help bring things into their proper perspective.

After the eight year term of President George W. Bush was up, the Iraq War cost taxpayers $820 BILLION dollars.
SOURCE - http://www.dpc.senate.gov/docs/fs-112-1-36.pdf

Now we look to the Obama stimulus bill which has the CBO estimate of $821 BILLION dollars. 
SOURCE - CBO raises its stimulus cost estimate, again - Washington Times

Then to that you include the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac blank checks, the Chevy Volt incentives, the prolonged unemployment extensions which brings in no federal revenue ( had this president use some intelligence to look to the pipeline construction from Canada for jobs instead of insisting on more unemployment checks ), oh we must not forget all those tax dollars wasted on green corporations that fell towards bankruptcy - Solyndra, US Geothermal, etc. You know ....... it's not really looking good for President Barrack Obama at this point, I think you should take the time to find a better graph.


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 22, 2013)

Of course it is the TPM's fault.

However, if they will fight holding the budge (no new taxes), willing to keep sequestration if necessary, and stop the nonsense about ACA, I will support them.


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## TooTall (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Anyone who is still going to college when they are 23 is either in grad school, milking it or too stupid to be there.  And you bet your ass it costs extra to have kids and young adults on your policy.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 22, 2013)

Lumpy 1 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...



I certainly stand by my information and I suggest expanding beyond Right wing sources so you can correct errors in your perspective...


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## TooTall (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> birddog said:
> 
> 
> > Misty said:
> ...



The operative words are "wanted to."  It didn't cost the taxpayers a cent because it didn't happen.


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## TooTall (Oct 22, 2013)

healthmyths said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



I was responding to this statement Candycorn made:


> Additionally, it seems as though I recall* the health insurance industry *signing off on the deal.



Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama.


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## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

healthmyths said:


> Vox said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



while I never trusted the figure of 46 millions I also do not necessarily agree with some of your points. Young people below 34 need insurance, too, but, it is exactly those 18 which are being aimed at to be hosed the most. 14 millions of the illegals get treated in the hospitals, so if they would be able and obliged to buy insurance ( not obamacare), at  least catastrophic one - that would east the costs a lot.
there is nothing bad in requiring people ti have some kind of coverage - but affordable and diverse one - for young and healthy there is no need to have anything more than catastrophic one.
And people who are a bit sicker should pay more.

But I would charge the most not for illnesses - I would charge according to the person's BMI - and in 5 years a lot of medical problems in this country would be alleviated


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## Vox (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...


that is exactly the system wide move towards private health care after judicial decision.


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## MeBelle (Oct 22, 2013)

Flopper said:


> You're not considering the fact that after the first year, insurance exchanges will be accepting application only between Oct and Dec. with a plan start date of Jan 1.  For employer sponsored insurance, you can only sign up for insurance during open enrollment which is once a year for most companies buy can be less frequent.  So* if a person had a serious accident or illness,* they will have to wait up to a year, sometimes longer before coverage begins.  Also, by 2017 the penalty for most people for not carrying insurance with be about $2,000/yr for each year there is no coverage.



Lets run with this a little bit..."if a person had a serious accident or illness" don't they just go to the ER to get treated?

If not, why not?

Undocumented immigrants do.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 22, 2013)

Just saw an interview where Sebelius said Obama did not know about the ACA disaster until after 1 Oct. They are asking how the signature legislation of Odummer escaped his oversight. 

Was he asleep at the wheel again?

-Geaux


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> Just saw an interview where Sebelius said Obama did not know about the ACA disaster until after 1 Oct. They are asking how the signature legislation of Odummer escaped his oversight.
> 
> Was he asleep at the wheel again?
> 
> -Geaux



I heard that also..no surprise though, Obama has a ponderous list of knowing nothing on important issues..


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## MeBelle (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...



  is correct.

This is one of the most shifty graphs floating around the neighborhood.

The graph is not factual past FY2010.  Wanna guess why  [MENTION=19734]Lumpy 1[/MENTION]?


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Lumpy 1 said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...



I think you need to provide some more concrete facts than something representative of a "color-by-number" book. Nice try, but it just doesn't cut it compared to using actual CBO numbers and government referenced figures.


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## Lumpy 1 (Oct 22, 2013)

MeBelle60 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...



No guesses other than more Democrat smoke and mirrors.


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## MeBelle (Oct 22, 2013)

Lumpy 1 said:


> MeBelle60 said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...



It has to do with the word...BUDGET!


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## MeBelle (Oct 22, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...





TyroneSlothrop said:


> This is the reality...you are misinformed....




*But dailykos drivel is peachy by you?*


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## Flopper (Oct 22, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
> ...


I don't believe the ACA planners every dreamed of anything near 100% compliance.  Japan, requires everyone to carry health insurance but they do not impose penalties on individuals for not  doing so.  Their compliance rate is over 90%.  I believe that the vast majority of Americans are responsible and will not violate the law and pay a penalty to avoid buying health insurance.  As I said, by 2017, many Americans would face a penalty of about $2,000 or $166/mo.  In most states the cost of a bronze plan for a young single is very close this cost and in some cases cheaper than the penalty.   I would bet that insurance packets next year will contain a statement from insurer that not carry health insurance is a violation of federal law.



Health insurance mandate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Yes...it costs the policy holder.  Not the person sitting next to the policy holder so there is no damage to anyone else.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 23, 2013)

Flopper said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

Then:


TooTall said:


> Hell yes the insurance companies signed off on the deal.  The promise by Obama of 30 million new health insurance customers, all paid in full by the US Government.  In addition, millions more will be partially funded on their policies with the full faith and credit of Uncle Sugar.
> They would have been foolish not to see that bird nest on the ground.



And now...




TooTall said:


> Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama.



I'll buy you a mirror so you can debate yourself if you ask nicely.


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

healthmyths said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Its early...Not all companies offered low/zero emission vehicles at the beginning.  Now most do.  New markets get some doubters....  Meanwhile, the Prius is dominating the market.  Chevy wishes it had gotten there first.  Nothing new there.  

And to correct your own statement...from your quotes it seems that they are participating on a limited basis; it isn't a case of "not participating".  I'd say that is smart business practice.  When we start in a new market, we don't open 26 campuses like we have here; we start with a few and expand outward duplicating a winning business model.


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> RandallFlagg said:
> 
> 
> > healthmyths said:
> ...



While we're spewing platitudes...

If you don't sign up for Obamacare, the terrorists win.


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## TooTall (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Then:
> 
> 
> TooTall said:
> ...


 
That won't be necessary since my conclusion is that the Insurance companies were LIED to by the Obama Administration and the Democrats that passed this tax law.

Apparently you don't understand what the word "snookered" means.


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## Geaux4it (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Then:
> ...



Yep- And when the young healthy continue to avoid the stumbercluck ACA, and the takers flock to it like files at a picnic, the insurance companies will start to crash. The system needs 7 million to sign up by March 2014 to become solvent

Good luck with that

Smoke em if you got em

-Geaux


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Then:
> ...



So lets stack up the qualifications:

Your opinion vs. the insurance companies.  
Your opinion vs. their accountants, lawyers, advisors, board members, etc...
Your opinion vs. the millions of new policy holders they will get

Yeah...I'm pretty sure you're full of shit.  Pick a position at some point and try to make a cognitive argument.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



If your overall goal is to reduce healthcare costs and your looking to those government healthcare systems already in place in Canada and the NHS, you're not duplicating from a winning business model.


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > healthmyths said:
> ...



Not sure of your point but I can tell you (and any one with 2 eyeballs would tell you this as well) that preventative healthcare is much less expensive than acute care.  The key to getting preventative healthcare is insurance.  Thus it stands to reason; more people on insurance=lower overall costs.


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## Edgetho (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



In theory you are absolutely correct.

It's much cheaper to buy Actos and Metformin for a diabetic than it is to put them on a dialysis machine later on.

I've said this from the beginning and I mean it....

I am FOR a mandatory participation in Health Care by ALL Americans.  ALL of them.  Every single one.

But the problem is this....  It's very simple.

It's like I said from the very start and have said in here many times......  

It is a GOOD idea but the problem is who's doing it...

dimocraps.  And I said that multiple times in here.  They're just stupid.

dimocraps would fuck up a one-car funeral, they'd screw up a salvage yard.  They're just simply stupid human being.  All of them.

Had they worked with Republicans, had they gotten Private Industry on board, had they gone to The People and sold the idea, had they convinced Small Business of the benefits, had they....

But they didn't.  

They're dimocraps.  Stupid, arrogant, heavy-handed, Nazi-esque, dictatorial dimocraps.

I WANT mandatory participation in Health Insurance.  I am TIRED of paying for people who freeload off of everybody else.

I just don't want dimocraps running it.  They're simply too stupid.

Look at how this is starting out.  And it ain't even busy yet


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## depotoo (Oct 23, 2013)

Jarhead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Jarhead said:
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actually the premium would remain the same until renewal, then be upped as suddenly it is a family plan versus just husband and spouse, if indeed that child was not already on the policy.  If they were already on the policy then that husband and wife are now paying increased premiums over what they would have  if simply for the husband and spouse plan and the child now got their own plan.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 23, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> [
> 
> Yep- And when the young healthy continue to avoid the stumbercluck ACA, and the takers flock to it like files at a picnic, the insurance companies will start to crash. x



Of course.  Obozo's insistence that you not be turned down for pre-existing conditions means the takers will just wait till they get sick and then buy insurance.   Imagine a world where you could buy fire insurance AFTER your house burned down.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> [
> 
> Not sure of your point but I can tell you (and any one with 2 eyeballs would tell you this as well) that preventative healthcare is much less expensive than acute care.  The key to getting preventative healthcare is insurance.  Thus it stands to reason; more people on insurance=lower overall costs.



uranidiot.  Preventive health care is a scam since the doctor has a huge incentive to find something wrong with you.  They don't make money off healthy people. I've never had a checkup in my life.


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Never... okay.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
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> > Redfish said:
> ...



I'll bet it's more expensive for a 23 year old to get individual coverage than it is to stay on a family plan, if the coverages are equal.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 23, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > RandallFlagg said:
> ...



With you people, one day it's Congress controlling the pursestrings, the next it's the Administration doing all the deficit spending.

Could you pick one and stick with it please.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



I agree with Edgethro that it looks good on paper until the time comes with how it's to be implemented. To introduce a mandate where everyone is required to carry insurance becomes difficult to attain as there will always be those who fall through the cracks. Our nation can't even control our own boarders, yet we are asking the government to track all immigrants (illegal, or those with a green card), as well as those that are homeless, who become ill or injured and require care in our hospitals. 

The issue of cost is another factor. Obamacare was sold under the promise of providing affordable health care. Yet there will still be many Americans that are too poor, or the countless unemployed effected by a huge loss in income with bills and obligations that don't change simply because they can't find work. Who covers their costs to provide coverage? What the government does is provide system that is nothing more than a shell game of hidden costs, diverted under the umbrella of another type of program. When someone provides a service and the bill is simply left at the table, as the grateful party simply turns and walks, someone ALWAYS has to be left to pick up the tab. Changing the system doesn't negate the problems in confronting cost. Rather we've traded uninsured patients who require treatment that raises the costs on the rest who HAVE coverage, to low income patients who now obtain their coverage divided amongst taxpayers who must acquire it FOR them among their taxable provisions. It's the government shell game, under the false premise that it will not add a cent to our debt or raise its costs onto the majority of Americans.


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## depotoo (Oct 23, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
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my son at 23 was able to get his own policy 2 years ago for the amount of $60 a month, free preventative, low co-pays, and deductible of $500. And it reduced our policy by $200 a month.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 23, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
> ...




What did the liberal Democrats advocate and pass under speaker Nancy Pelosi? 

$787 BILLION stimulus
Obamacare 
Cash for Clunkers
Cash for Appliances
Government incentives for the Chevy Volt
Funding for hand picked green corporations like Solyndra, US Geothermal, etc.
Blank Checks in an attempt to keep Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac afloat without accountability
Prolonged Federal unemployment extension (even over a job creating pipeline)
.... just to name a few 

Now President Obama would like to see yet ANOTHER stimulus spending (not-so-shovel-ready) package pushed through Congress. I find that it's all quite obvious where a lot of this government spending has been coming from.


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 23, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...



So the 800 billion you're saying that the stimulus cost,  that the stimulus added to the defict?


----------



## Flopper (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> healthmyths said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...


In Washington state only half of the companies that applied for listing on the state exchange have been approved.

"We are not, and have not been a large player with a mature, robust presence to begin with in the individual market in New Jersey," an Aethna spokeswoman said.

UnitedHealthcare is also planning limited participation in the new exchanges, at least for 2014. The company said it is taking its time to evaluate the exchanges, which it believes have the potential to be a growth market. It is only participating in about a dozen exchanges next year.


Some medical insurance plans, rates approved for state?s new health exchange | Q13 FOX News


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## NYcarbineer (Oct 23, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...



So you want to blame the 2009 and 2010 deficits on the Democratic House,

but 2011, 2012, and 2013, those deficits you want to blame on Obama because the Republicans took the House in 2010?

lol, do you consider yourself one of the smarter inmates around here?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Oct 23, 2013)

depotoo said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



Prove that and you'll have made a point, of sorts.


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## Flopper (Oct 23, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...


The only way to achieve 100% coverage is through a single payer system.  The ACA will increase the number covered significantly but certainly not a 100%.  Half the states, mostly red states who opted  out of the expanded medicaid will create a coverage gap of over 5 million.

Although many of these states are considering offering the medicaid expansion or an alternative program, it will still create a large gap. The reason for states rejecting the expansion is political not funding.  The federal government pays 100% of the expansion for the first few years and will gradually reduce federal funding to 90%.

Other coverage gaps will be unavoidable.  As is the case now, employees changing jobs will have gaps in coverage. Also some employees will not be able to afford their employer offered coverage but will not meet the 8% income rule for use of the exchanges.

Since most of the costs of the ACA goes to subsidies and the Medicaid expansion, the less coverage the less financial impact on federal spending.  The CBO cost estimate of $120 billion/yr for the ACA is based on 24 million enrollments on the healthcare exchanges and all states expanding medicaid.  If these numbers are significantly lower, then so will be the impact on federal spending.    

Counterpoint on ACA Medicaid Coverage Gap - NPQ - Nonprofit Quarterly

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44176


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...



You're paying for 100% of the people who show up at the County and City clinics and emergency rooms.  Preventative healthcare will reduce those numbers.  Keep in mind that in many cases it's not 20 y/o adults who show up after not going to the doctor for several years even though they could; it's 10 y/o girls who have high fever whose parents wanted to but couldn't afford insurance.  Now instead of that ER visit, they'll have the ability to go to scheduled doctor visits to catch problems before they result in acute care having to be delivered.


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



All this life insurance is a bunch of hooey...I've never died yet.


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## TooTall (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



It is not my opinion that a number of insurance companies are backing out after learning about the hazards of believing a government scam.  It is a fact!

It is not my opinion that the insurance companies are listening to their accountants, lawyers, board members, etc. and that is the reason they are limiting their participation in the government exchanges.  It is a fact.

It is not my opinion that MOST of those NEW policy holders premiums will be paid by the federal government and they will get the money by increasing the taxes and premiums from those who already have policies.  It is a fact.

Look in the mirror if you want to see a pile of shit.


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## TooTall (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



I never was able to schedule a high fever in my girls or boys. They usually woke us up in the middle of the night.  How many doctors do you know that are able to take an unscheduled visit in the middle of the night, let alone during normal office hours?  Since there will be many more patients waiting for appointments, and fewer doctors, a visit to the clinic or emergency room would be where I would and have taken my kids.

We raised 5 kids, three of ours 2 adopted. How many have you raised.

On edit:  Since city and county clinics are paid for out of local taxes, I am sure my property tax will go down.  Just thought I would insert a bit of humor in this post, because you know that ain't gonna happen.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 23, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


>



Hey stupid.  Obozo doesn't count all the trillions of $ he's borrowed from the federal reserve and given to the banks!!! He says we borrowed it from ouselves so it shouldn't count, ignoring the fact that the federal reserve is a cartel of PRIVATE banks.  And the PPP lets himi get away with it.


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



Yet if you were to log on to healthcare.gov, you'd see plan after plan listed...Amazing that they're there if what you are saying were true.  

Like most conservatives, you have a very casual relationship to the truth.  Again, you should buy a mirror so you can debate yourself.  You seem really confused.


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## TooTall (Oct 23, 2013)

Flopper said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Only a fool would believe any projected costs published by the government.



> In 1965, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that the hospital insurance program of Medicare - the federal health care program for the elderly and disabled - *would cost $9 billion by 1990. The actual cost that year was $67 billion.*
> 
> In 1967, the House Ways and Means Committee said the entire Medicare program *would cost $12 billion in 1990. The actual cost in 1990 was $98 billion. *
> 
> ...


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...


Did the telephone stump you there, stupid?



TooTall said:


> They usually woke us up in the middle of the night.  How many doctors do you know that are able to take an unscheduled visit in the middle of the night, let alone during normal office hours?  Since there will be many more patients waiting for appointments, and fewer doctors, a visit to the clinic or emergency room would be where I would and have taken my kids.


Yeah, more people going to the doctor is a bad thing.  In the other post you said that nobody will be able to get health insurance because companies are bailing out...which is it today?  

And somehow Kindred Hospital, Humana,  Concentra, etc... are able to take walk-ins all the time.  
Concentra Location Finder - Map Search
Kindred Healthcare - Facility Locator
Welcome to Kelsey-Seybold Clinic | Kelsey-Seybold Clinic

There is this thing called a hospital now.  Will emergencies still happen?  Sure.  Except now instead of having to drive your kid to the County seat, you can go to your neighborhood hospital because you're covered.

Fewer doctors?  Sure..whatever.



TooTall said:


> On edit:  Since city and county clinics are paid for out of local taxes, I am sure my property tax will go down.  Just thought I would insert a bit of humor in this post, because you know that ain't gonna happen.



No but the next County emergency room may not be built as soon or ever  now with more people able to go to the private health system instead of county emergency rooms.  

You lost the argument already.


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## Flopper (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...


I think you're twisting the facts a bit.  Insurers are not backing out of the exchanges. They either didn't apply or were not certified.  Aetna and Unitedhealth have issued statements as to why they're not participating in some of the state run exchanges and their reasons have nothing to do with their faith in the US government.  The primary reason why these insurers are not registering in all states is they have little or no presence in the individual healthcare market in those states.  There is considerable cost for a health insurance company to induce a new product in a state, building networks, opening offices, and meeting state insurance regulations.

In my state over a dozen companies applied but only 5 were accepted by the state insurance commission.  However those companies offer 34 different plans.  In some states, there are as many as 36 different companies on the their exchange.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 23, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



You Mad bro...


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## TooTall (Oct 23, 2013)

depotoo said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



Sounds good.  Now, please let us know  what happens when Obamacare becomes effective next year.


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## TooTall (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



You are the one that started the name calling fuckface.  Now you resort to misquoting me. 

I tried to call and schedule a fever in my kids, but the line was busy.  Oh, you meant call the doctor at 3 AM. She told me to meet her at the emergency room dumbass!

So the next county emergency *may* not be built.  LMFAO

You keep on with your faith in the government until the country is bankrupt if it makes you happy.  I don't  travel that road.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...



So for what now, 40 years we've been supposedly on the verge of going bankrupt.  Having faith in government has nothing to do with it; Having zero faith in the chronic "sky is falling" pussies like yourself is much more fun (and accurate).  

Ya know...if you go to the emergency room there is probably already a doctor there.   Just a note for future reference there, stupid.


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## candycorn (Oct 23, 2013)

Flopper said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...


    ​
It always cracks me up how you let these blowhards rant and rave then calmly retort with facts and figures.


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 23, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> > Lumpy 1 said:
> ...




The Iraq war is still going up in cost due to the medical care costs for vets, disability payments to veterans , the borrowing costs of the war which was not funded....the greatest deficit of all times was in Bush's last budget a $1.85 trillion deficit , the last JOKER left behind by huge failure 43...there had to be stimulus spending because Failure 43 left a steaming smoky pile of crap on the economy..then there were his tax cuts adding to the deficit...IT SIMPLY HAS NOT BEEN OBAMA INITIATIVES OR SPENDING DRIVING DEFICITS


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## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> ...


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## Flopper (Oct 23, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > TooTall said:
> ...


It always amazes me to see how flexible facts become on the Internet.
A statement that some large healthcare insurers will not be registering on some state exchanges morphs into:
Large healthcare insurers abandoning state insurance exchanges
Large healthcare insurers backing off from Obamacare exchanges
Large healthcare insurers are no longer offering plans on exchanges because of their lack of faith in the administration.

When it comes to politics, most of what you read on the Internet is mostly wrong.


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## depotoo (Oct 23, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



You'll have to take my word for it, dear.  It's been nice having that extra income each month.    

And this is the sad fact of the matter, many young adults do not realize, because they never cared to inquire, that insurance used to be reasonable for them.  Ours did, as we drove home the point you should carry insurance for yourself, if you do contract work and we taught them to take care of such matters for themselves.


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## depotoo (Oct 23, 2013)

Flopper said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
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Obamacare Exchange Down To Two Insurance Providers
Major Health Insurance Companies Leave Obamacare Exchanges | Western Free Press


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## depotoo (Oct 23, 2013)

TooTall said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



He is now working for a company that provides insurance and has a family, thus is on the family plan there.  He was a contractor before, thus why he got his own policy.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 23, 2013)

Millions of Americans Are Losing Their Health Plans Because of Obamacare


_But the president's promise is turning out to be false for millions of Americans who have had their health insurance policies canceled because they don't meet the requirements of the Affordable Care Act. ​_




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk][FLASHBACK] Obama: If you like your health care plan you can keep your health care plan - YouTube[/ame]


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## depotoo (Oct 23, 2013)

TyroneSlothrop said:


> TooTall said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Obamacare Polls: Faith in Health Care Exchanges Eroding | TIME.com
Poll: Majority believe health-care Web site problems indicate broader issue with law


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 23, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> ShaklesOfBigGov said:
> 
> 
> > TyroneSlothrop said:
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Yes, I'm sure the stimulus was all about job creation to help boost the economy. There is no way this President would even THINK of wasting our taxpayer dollars like he did with Solyndra, right? 


&#8226; $2 billion earmark to restart FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Dept. of Energy defunded last year because the project was inefficient

&#8226; $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

&#8226; $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

&#8226; $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

&#8226; $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

&#8226; $75 million for &#8220;smoking cessation activities.&#8221;

&#8226; $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

&#8226; $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

&#8226; $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

&#8226; $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

&#8226; $1.2 billion for &#8220;youth activities,&#8221; including youth summer job programs.

&#8226; $160 million for &#8220;paid volunteers&#8221; at the Corporation for National and Community Service.If they are paid they are not volunteers, they are called employees. 

&#8226; $5.5 million for &#8220;energy efficiency initiatives&#8221; at the Department of Veterans Affairs *National Cemetery Administration.* Electric hearses?? .. or are we talking about electric lawn mowers here?

&#8226; $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint. Are you serious? This is what we need to be spending our money on to improve our economy?

&#8226; $75M to construct a new "security training" facility for State Dept Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.


&#8226; $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

&#8226; $88 Million - for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Services. I wouldn't think of renovating my OWN house until I knew I could afford it

&#8226; $200 million in funding for the *lease* of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations. They are soldiers who march from building to building, and Michelle Obama has also been promoting the need for MORE people to be physically fit.

&#8226; Unspecified assistance for "nonambulatory cattle"

SOURCES:
GOP Reveals Obama Stimulus Plan Waste: Stimulus Plan Is Full Of Pork Projects » Right Pundits

Newsweek's Hirsh on Stimulus: Don't Worry About Pork, This is an 'Emergency' | NewsBusters

What GOP Leaders deem wasteful in Senate stimulus bill - CNN.com


Then there is the repeated attempts to pour more money into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac



> June 23, 2010
> 
> The cost of fixing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage companies that last year bought or guaranteed three-quarters of all U.S. home loans, will be at least $160 billion and could grow to as much as $1 trillion after the biggest bailout in American history.








NYcarbineer said:


> So you want to blame the 2009 and 2010 deficits on the Democratic House,
> 
> but 2011, 2012, and 2013, those deficits you want to blame on Obama because the Republicans took the House in 2010?
> 
> lol, do you consider yourself one of the smarter inmates around here?



Obama may pout and cry all he wants, over what he wants to see in HIS idea of another stimulus plan. However, any plans of what this President wants to see has to meet the approval of the House. I thought you understood the basics of how our Governmet works? Do you honestly believe the Republicans are going to allow ANOTHER stimulus bill like that one above to pass the House? Come on NYCarbineer, I thought you would have more common sense than this? You don't appear to be the most intelligent liberal in the bunch.





TyroneSlothrop said:


> The Iraq war is still going up in cost due to the medical care costs for vets, disability payments to veterans , the borrowing costs of the war which was not funded....the greatest deficit of all times was in Bush's last budget a $1.85 trillion deficit , the last JOKER left behind by huge failure 43...there had to be stimulus spending because Failure 43 left a steaming smoky pile of crap on the economy..then there were his tax cuts adding to the deficit...IT SIMPLY HAS NOT BEEN OBAMA INITIATIVES OR SPENDING DRIVING DEFICITS



When are you going to start providing me with some concrete figures you can actually back up, instead of simply pulling your own figures right out of your ass?


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 24, 2013)

No comrade

facts from Daily Kos and Maddow 
are the truth


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## TooTall (Oct 24, 2013)

Flopper said:


> TooTall said:
> 
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> > candycorn said:
> ...



Point taken.  I may have overstated my case on the reasons some insurance companies are not participating in some markets. 

If I ran a health insurance company I would most certainly not publicly blame government policy since one does not bite the hand that feeds it.

Some other excuse would be given


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## TooTall (Oct 24, 2013)

candycorn said:


> TooTall said:
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It looks like 6 Democrat Senators who voted for Obamacare are bailing out.  Does that 'delay for a year' ring a bell in your hollow head?  Hint, Republican House bill sent to the Senate and returned without the delay.



> --"Red state Democrats propose changes to Obamacare," by Burgess Everett and Seung Min:  "Sen.* Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) *is taking the strongest tack among Senate Democrats, writing legislation with Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) to *delay for a year the individual mandate's enforcement mechanism *- a $95 fine for anyone who doesn't enroll in health insurance by March 31. Manchin is even taking the full rollout and explanation of his legislation to an unusual venue for a Democrat: Bill O'Reilly's show [tonight] ... Democrats facing difficult reelection campaigns in 2014 - *Sens. Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Kay Hagan of North Carolina and Mark Begich of Alaska* - came out on Wednesday evening in support of extending the open enrollment period of the law, as first proposed by* Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire*, who is also up for reelection in 2014."


 Red state Democrats propose changes to Obamacare - Burgess Everett and Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com


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## candycorn (Oct 24, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
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Closing your business for remodeling is one thing.
Closing your business because you refuse to pay extortion is another.


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## candycorn (Oct 24, 2013)

TooTall said:


> Flopper said:
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Earlier you said that they were bailing out.  Then (in the next post I think) you said that emergency rooms would be flooded with new policy holders.

What is your stance today?


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## williepete (Oct 24, 2013)




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## TooTall (Oct 24, 2013)

candycorn said:


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Allow me to interpret your BS.  It is remodeling if a Democrat Senate proposes a 1 year extension, and extortion if a Republican House does sends a bill to the Senate with a 1 ear extension.

I say it is because six Democrat Senators know they will not be reelected if they continue to support the train wreck called Obamacare?


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## TooTall (Oct 24, 2013)

candycorn said:


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I don't recall stating that emergency rooms would be flooded.  I believe I stated that doctors office will be flooded, but you do make a good point.  

Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.  
Why go to the drug store and *buy* a bandaid for a small cut when the are* free *at the emergency room?


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## candycorn (Oct 24, 2013)

TooTall said:


> candycorn said:
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Ahh, another opinion from you...I thought someone just passed gas.  

The motives are no where near the same; most of the knuckle draggers you hang around with would even admit that.


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## candycorn (Oct 24, 2013)

TooTall said:


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Okay so which is it?

Will they not be able to buy insurance for, as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out or will they be able to buy insurance, as you're saying now, that the insurance companies will have "30 million new insured"? 

Again, if you ask me nicely, I'll buy you a mirror so you can debate yourself.


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## TooTall (Oct 24, 2013)

candycorn said:


> TooTall said:
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*--"Red state Democrats propose changes to Obamacare," *by Burgess Everett and Seung Min: "Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) is taking the strongest tack among Senate Democrats, writing legislation with Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) to delay for a year the individual mandate's enforcement mechanism - a $95 fine for anyone who doesn't enroll in health insurance by March 31. Manchin is even taking the full rollout and explanation of his legislation to an unusual venue for a Democrat: Bill O'Reilly's show [tonight] ...* Democrats facing difficult reelection campaigns in 2014* - Sens. Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Kay Hagan of North Carolina and Mark Begich of Alaska - came out on Wednesday evening in support of extending the open enrollment period of the law, as first proposed by* Sen. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, who is also up for reelection in 2014."*

Take it up with the knuckle draggers at Politico since they share my opinion.  BTW, do you only deal in insults, or do you have an opinion on why these Democrats would change their minds.  After all, they voted for this nonsense.


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## TooTall (Oct 24, 2013)

candycorn said:


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I stated: "Apparently some of the companies got around to reading all 2500 pages of the ACA and found out they were snookered by Obama." and a disingenuous asshole that you are came up with "as you said, the insurance companies are bailing out." 

Your talking points are rather amusing, but I can't be bothered with being misquoted so the nicest thing I can say in parting is fuck off bitch.


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## Flopper (Oct 24, 2013)

depotoo said:


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North Carolina can't be down to two providers on the exchange because they never had more than two.  North Carolina has very few companies selling individual insurance in the state.  I could only find 4.


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## Flopper (Oct 24, 2013)

TooTall said:


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The law, as enacted, is 974 pages long, not 1500, 2000, or 2500.  I realize it may help your argument but the fact is laws just don't increase in size once they are enacted.

To put things in perspective the stimulus bill was 1,100 pages. The climate bill was 1,200 pages. Bill Clinton's 1993 health care plan was famously 1,342 pages long. Budget bills can run even longer: In 2007, President Bush's ran to 1,482 pages.  Legislation is getting longer, but that's a good thing.  Shorter legislation invariable leads to longer more complex regulations as regulators try to guess what congress intended.


Is 'Obamacare' really that long? - Leader-Telegram: Tom Giffey

Is 1,000 pages long for a piece of legislation?


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## Flopper (Oct 24, 2013)

If your're really interested in getting some cheap insurance so you will be legal next year, you should look at www.ehealthinsurance.com  You can purchase a 2013 plan that should meet your legal requirements for insurance for next year.  Eventually you'll have to upgrade to one of the certified plans.

I looked at several states.  It look like a 30 year old male nonsmoker can get a policy as low as $70 to $95.  The deductible is about $10,000, $12,600 maximum out of pocket expense, and you pay 40% of the medical cost after you pay the deductible.  You need to be pretty healthy so you can pass a physical and the healthcare screening form which can be up to 18 pages.


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## TooTall (Oct 24, 2013)

Flopper said:


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Perhaps it should have been 2500 pages using your reasoning.  Then some of this would have not have been needed.



> Along with partisan sniping, Washington, D.C. sure creates a lot of paper. And the Affordable Care Act is really adding to the pile. The nearly* 11,000 pages of regulations *for this one law alone would reach three feet high if you made the mistake of printing it.


How many pages of regulations are in the Affordable Care Act?

And, the Washington post fact checker added to that number if you are interested, which I am reasonably sure you aren't.
Link here:
How many pages of regulations for ?Obamacare?? - The Washington Post


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 24, 2013)

TooTall said:


> [
> 
> Emergency room will also be flooded with 30 million new insured patients with policies paid for by the taxpayers so there will be a lot more emergencies including some not serious enough to be called an emergency.
> Why go to the drug store and *buy* a bandaid for a small cut when the are* free *at the emergency room?



Apparently you don't realize that the poor (and illegals incredibly enough) already get free health care at ERs courtesy of the EMTALA Act of 1986.  And they use the ERs for everything.


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## depotoo (Oct 25, 2013)

Flopper said:


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> FirstCarolina, a wholly owned subsidiary of FirstHealth of the Carolinas, announced Thursday afternoon it had alerted the North Carolina Department of Insurance of its intention to reverse course on its plan to sell federally approved policies on the exchange...
> 
> *FirstCarolina had received federal certification to offer 16 plans* for sale that meet federal minimum requirements. It was the first of the three insurers to release its premium plans and prices.



Two insurers pull out of Georgia health exchange | Online Athens
Aetna pulls out of New Jersey's Obamacare exchange - Sep. 13, 2013
Aetna pulls health plans from Maryland insurance exchange - Baltimore Sun
What Aetna's move to pull insurance plans from Maryland exchange means - Baltimore Business Journal
3 sizable insurance providers pull out of California health insurance exchange | All California Health Insurance
Aetna Pulls Out Of Connecticut?s Insurance Exchange « CBS Connecticut
Aetna Pulls Health Plans From Md. Insurance Exchange - Top News - InsuranceNewsNet.com
Regence BlueCross BlueShield Pulls out of Oregon?s Insurance Exchange | The Lund Report
Humana Exits Utah Health Insurance Exchange


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 25, 2013)

The Tea Party, a stain on America's narrative, owes the GOP and the American people a heartfelt apology and askance for repentance.


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## TooTall (Oct 25, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


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If true, why do we need the ACA? The mantra was thirty million people are doing without health care and now you tell me EVERYONE gets it.


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## Flopper (Oct 25, 2013)

TooTall said:


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Maybe the law should have been 2500 pages but it's not.  Blatant exaggeration of the facts does not strengthen your argument but rather weakens it.

We have such voluminous regs because congress leaves it up to regulators to supply the details needed to implement the laws.  For the most part, this is unavoidable but not always.   

The healthcare regulations pales in comparison to IRS or EPA regs.


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## Flopper (Oct 25, 2013)

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The purpose of the ER is to treat and stabilize acute illness and accidents.  ER services should be a very small part of healthcare.  Most healthcare services should be delivered in doctor's offices and clinics but people with health problems don't go to the doctor if they can't pay so they end up the ER, the most expensive place to get treatment.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 26, 2013)

TooTall said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
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> > Apparently you don't realize that the poor (and illegals incredibly enough) already get free health care at ERs courtesy of the EMTALA Act of 1986.  And they use the ERs for everything.
> ...




What do you mean "if true?" There is no question EMTALA gives everyone free treatment at ERs.  They'll send you a bill but  the law won't force you to pay it. Been like that for near 30 years, you idiot.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 26, 2013)

Flopper said:


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Yup - poor and illegals use ERs for everything.  EMTALA is more stupidity from congress.


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## Flopper (Oct 26, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Far from it.  The EMTALA was passed in response to patient dumping which became common in the 1980's.  Over 85% of ER patient transfers were for financial reasons.  Simply not having proof of insurance on your person when you were wheeled into an ER could send you across town to a county hospital.   The general rule today is to delivery an emergency to the nearest ER.  That was not necessarily the case prior to EMTALA.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 26, 2013)

I can't wait for it to be fixed!

What month is it suppose to be fixed now?


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 26, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Far from it.  The EMTALA was passed in response to patient dumping which became common in the 1980's.  Over 85% of ER patient transfers were for financial reasons.  Simply not having proof of insurance on your person when you were wheeled into an ER could send you across town to a county hospital.   The general rule today is to delivery an emergency to the nearest ER.  That was not necessarily the case prior to EMTALA.



Hey stupid.  That doesn't explain why the law was written to include free ER treatment for  ILLEGALS???


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 26, 2013)

Neotrotsky said:


> I can't wait for it to be fixed!
> 
> What month is it suppose to be fixed now?



Obozo is now saying end of nov,  presumably 2013. Of course he lies about everything.  "If you like your present health plan, you get to keep it. Period".


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## Flopper (Oct 26, 2013)

depotoo said:


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*If you do a little research you'll find that Aetna did not pull out of the exchanges because they were never registered.  They issued a statement saying they were not registering in states where they had little or no penetration into the individual insurance market.

If you take the time to read your article about Human which is dated October 17, 2011, two years before the ACA exchanges opened, you would see that the article is about the Utah Healthcare Exchange.  This was long before the ACA exchanges were setup.

Regence Blue Cross Blue Shield did not register in Oregon and several other states because their sister company, BridgeSpan was registering.  If Regence registered, they would be competing against themselves.

3 strikes and you're out!*


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## Flopper (Oct 26, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Far from it.  The EMTALA was passed in response to patient dumping which became common in the 1980's.  Over 85% of ER patient transfers were for financial reasons.  Simply not having proof of insurance on your person when you were wheeled into an ER could send you across town to a county hospital.   The general rule today is to delivery an emergency to the nearest ER.  That was not necessarily the case prior to EMTALA.
> ...


Care to show me where ER treatment for ILLEGALS is written into the law.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 27, 2013)

Flopper said:


> ShootSpeeders said:
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> > Hey stupid.  That doesn't explain why the law was written to include free ER treatment for  ILLEGALS???
> ...



Are you serious??? The EMTALA Act of 1985 says so.  You're the only one in the world that questions that. Read this, you moron.


National Data | EMTALA?Health Care Giveaway To Immigrants | VDARE.com


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## depotoo (Oct 27, 2013)

Flopper said:


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> New York is the *fifth state* where Aetna has *pulled its application *to sell the plans that go on sale on October 1 and into effect on January 1, 2014. It has also reversed course in Maryland, Ohio, Georgia, and Connecticut, where it is based.



Aetna pulls out of New York health insurance exchange | Yahoo Health



> Founded in Hartford, Conn., in 1850, Aetna withdrew its application to participate in that state on Monday, the Hartford Courant reported. The company said it was withdrawing from there and in Georgia and Maryland because limitations the state governments would impose on their rates would not allow them to make money.
> 
> We have spent considerable time identifying those states in which we can be competitive and add the most value to the market, Aetna said in a statement.  *As a result of our analysis, we have reluctantly concluded that we will withdraw certain Individual Exchange filings for 2014, including filings in Connecticut, Georgia and Maryland.*...
> _Aetna will also not participate in Californias exchange, and a spokesperson told CNSNews.com that the company never intended to do so_.
> ...


Blue Cross, Aetna, United, Humana Flee Obamacare Exchanges | CNS News


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## Flopper (Oct 27, 2013)

depotoo said:


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Thanks for the links backing up my post


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 27, 2013)

LA Times: Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out

_Thousands of Californians are discovering what Obamacare will cost them  and many don't like what they see.

These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years._​_
Fullerton resident Jennifer Harris thought she had a great deal, paying $98 a month for an individual plan through Health Net Inc.

Now Harris, a self-employed lawyer, must shop for replacement insurance. The cheapest plan she has found will cost her $238 a month. She and her husband don't qualify for federal premium subsidies because they earn too much money, about $80,000 a year combined.

Pam Kehaly, president of Anthem Blue Cross in California, said she received a recent letter from a young woman complaining about a 50% rate hike related to the healthcare law.

"She said, 'I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,'" Kehaly said.

Nearly 2 million Californians have individual insurance, and several hundred thousand of them are losing their health plans in a matter of weeks.

Blue Shield of California sent termination letters to 119,000 customers last month whose plans don't meet the new federal requirements. About two-thirds of those people will experience a rate increase from switching to a new health plan, according to the company._​


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## naturegirl (Oct 28, 2013)

If Obama doesn't get as many people enrolled as he wants, those costs will necessarily sky-rocket.  The fees are based on the number of people that participate.


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## depotoo (Oct 28, 2013)

Flopper said:


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Obviously you have reading comprehension problems.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 28, 2013)

candycorn said:


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I believe I just stated that in my reply above, again it becomes a shuffle game as the factor of "cost" doesn't go away and it will STILL go up regardless what kind of government controlled system is used. We can choose to go with a full government controlled insurance program (single payer), however we can look to NHS in Great Britain and see they are still suffering under the burden of increasing government debt. Currently the NHS is looking to rationing care over what the doctor believes the patient may need. Anytime an individual or group can not afford health care, the cost to cover their expenses shifts unto those who CAN afford it. The only thing YOU have done, in supporting government health care, is to merely shift those costs onto the taxpayer.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 28, 2013)

naturegirl said:


> If Obama doesn't get as many people enrolled as he wants, those costs will necessarily sky-rocket.  The fees are based on the number of people that participate.



Why do you think Obama is concentrating so much attention towards amnesty? If the young people are choosing not to get on board, he will try to look towards another group to try and bail-out this health care government mess.


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## boedicca (Oct 28, 2013)

I just love this quote from the LA Times.  It pretty much sums up the Epic Suckage of ObamaCare:

_I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it._


LA Times


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 28, 2013)

boedicca said:


> I just love this quote from the LA Times.  It pretty much sums up the Epic Suckage of ObamaCare:
> 
> _I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it._
> 
> ...



that is why you are only seeing those who qualify for medicaid 

and subsidized plans enrolled 

everyone else is going WTF


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## jon_berzerk (Oct 28, 2013)

Neotrotsky said:


> LA Times: Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out
> 
> _Thousands of Californians are discovering what Obamacare will cost them  and many don't like what they see.
> 
> ...



the devil is in the details 

the title says some 

the story says* thousands *


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 28, 2013)

I like

"She said, 'I was all for Obamacare until I found out I was paying for it,'" Kehaly said.

Describes a typical Papa Obama voter.

It also reflects how bad a job the MSM is doing in providing real news
and being just an extension of WH propaganda


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## Flopper (Oct 28, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Illegal immigrants are not mentioned in the law.   EMTALA prevents hospitals from transferring uninsured or Medicaid patients to public hospitals without, at a minimum, providing a medical screening examination to ensure they were stable for transfer. 

Aside from the inhumane aspects of denying emergency treatment to undocumented immigrants, it would simply be impractical to withhold life saving treatments until citizenship cold be verified.

EMTALA


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## Flopper (Oct 28, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > I just love this quote from the LA Times.  It pretty much sums up the Epic Suckage of ObamaCare:
> ...


The exchange is only for people who don't qualify for* Medicaid*, Medicare, VA, or employee sponsored insurance.  You can't sign up for any of these coverage on the Exchange.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 28, 2013)

I for one, am shocked

Indiana School District Faces $6 Million In Costs From ObamaCare, Cutting Hours For Workers

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dr3oy0yO88"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dr3oy0yO88[/ame]


Papa Obama lied
Health care plans died


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## JakeStarkey (Oct 28, 2013)

Yup, you are spamming.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 28, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


> Neotrotsky said:
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> > I can't wait for it to be fixed!
> ...



NBC
Obama admin. knew millions could not keep their health insurance

Papa Obama lied
Health care plans died

so sad for the American people


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 28, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > I just love this quote from the LA Times.  It pretty much sums up the Epic Suckage of ObamaCare:
> ...



In my state if you are eligible for medicaid you cannot get a subsidy.  You're supposed to instead get your health care thru medicaid.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 28, 2013)

Flopper said:


> [q
> 
> Aside from the inhumane aspects of denying emergency treatment to undocumented immigrants, it would simply be impractical to withhold life saving treatments until citizenship cold be verified.
> ]



Life-saving??  HAHAHA.  Illegals use emtala for every health problem, you idiot.


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## Neotrotsky (Oct 28, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


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 Wilson was right , Papa Obama does lie




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBKAHRYkGVQ]South Carolina Rep Joe Wilson shouts, 'You lie' at Obama - YouTube[/ame]


The look on Pelosi's face is priceless


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 29, 2013)

TooTall said:


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Actually, if someone were to come into the ER who is critical and doesn't have insurance, by law they can not be turned away. Rather, the doctors and surgeons will do what they can to stabilize the patient of their condition. No one is denied medical assistance who enter the ER regardless if they have coverage.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 29, 2013)

ShaklesOfBigGov said:


> [
> 
> Actually, if someone were to come into the ER who is critical and doesn't have insurance, by law they can not be turned away. Rather, the doctors and surgeons will do what they can to stabilize the patient of their condition. No one is denied medical assistance who enter the ER regardless if they have coverage.




And that includes illegals - people that aren't even allowed to be here.  They get free treatment for everything by simply walking into an ER and saying "ees emergency, senor".


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## Flopper (Oct 29, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Last year, about 80,000 emergency-room patients left without treatment after being told they would have to pay for services upfront because they did not have a true emergency.  The EMTALA law only requires that hospitals screen and stabilize anyone with an emergency.

Hospitals Demand Payment Upfront From ER Patients With Routine Problems - Kaiser Health News

However, hospitals have a long history that goes back over a hundred years of treating anyone that asks for medical help from the ER regardless of their ability to pay.  There is no federal law that requires it.


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## RandallFlagg (Oct 29, 2013)

Flopper said:


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Indeed, the law specifically states "anyone needing EMERGENCY services". However, (and I have nothing to back this up with) I would imagine that the vast majority of hospitals "look the other way" when it comes to illegals. My Wife is a MSN and I have walked by the ER on occasion at 11:00PM and seen the ER jammed with folks of "questionable" citizenship.

To be fair, I have also seen those "of questionable citizenship" pull out a wad of cash the size of a baseball and pay cash for their services as well. Of course, when your money comes from "under the table" and you can't open a checking account - you tend to deal in cash. Keeps the IRS at bay as well.

You see, 99% of the hospitals display a sign that states "If you do not have health insurance, we will stabilize you and transport you to another hospital" - though the only time they actually do this is in the event of a catastrophic emergency.


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## ShootSpeeders (Oct 29, 2013)

Flopper said:


> Last year, about 80,000 emergency-room patients left without treatment after being told they would have to pay for services upfront because they did not have a true emergency.  The EMTALA law only requires that hospitals screen and stabilize anyone with an emergency.
> 
> [.



80,000???  I don't buy that number but even that is not very high.  ER refusals should be 10 million  or more every year.   There are 6000 hospitals in america so that means just 12 -13 refusals per year per hospital  That's one a month!!!!  THINK, you miserable wretch.


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## ShaklesOfBigGov (Oct 30, 2013)

Flopper said:


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Do you have another independent source that can confirm these findings? I am rather suspicious of a source that has a foundational link with an individual  (Henry J Kaiser) who also established Kaiser Permanente insurance. They may hold onto the claim they are not connected, however his wealth is behind the foundations establishment. Someone associated with providing health care coverage citing statistics to promote the need for more Americans to be covered ... merely coincidence and independent beyond reproach?



> Kaiser organized Kaiser Permanente health care for his workers and their families. He led Kaiser-Frazer followed by Kaiser Motors, automobile companies known for the safety of their designs. Kaiser was involved in large construction projects such as civic centers and dams, and invested in real estate. With his acquired wealth, he initiated the Kaiser Family Foundation, a non-profit, non-partisan, charitable organization.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 2, 2013)

* Looks like Tea Party was right about Obamacare. America owes them an apolog*y


sure does
but the left can't even admit the Great Society was failure
after 15 trillion spent, almost 50 years and we have the same level of poverty

The left is stuck on stupid


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## ShootSpeeders (Nov 2, 2013)

Neotrotsky said:


> [
> 
> sure does
> but the left can't even admit the Great Society was failure
> ...



A failure for america but a great success for democrats..  They created a permanent underclass that will always vote dem - the welfare party.


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## RandallFlagg (Nov 2, 2013)

ShootSpeeders said:


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Absolutely. Couldn't have stated it better myself. I remember my Dad telling me that this exact thing would happen when LBJ signed the legislation.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 3, 2013)

RandallFlagg said:


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Your Dad was a smart man


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