# West Virginia adopted Constitutional carry 5 years ago.  Crime went down, not up, anti-gunners don't have a clue.



## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2021)

Whenever a state adopts Constitutional carry, or any kind of law that allows normal, good people to own and carry a gun, the anti-gun extremists create a fantasy world where blood runs in the streets.

The truth?   Normal people who own and carry guns do not commit gun crime, gun murder or general crime.   

More truth?  The democrat party creates actual crime because the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians keep releasing the actual criminals who have the illegal guns and use them to commit crime and murder.  Why they keep doing this, the anti-gunners can never explain...but they do.....and these individuals released by the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians are the ones committing crime with guns.   Keep them locked up....and you reduce crime....

*We’ve seen no shortage of politicians and police chiefs complaining that Texas’ new Constitutional Carry law is going to lead to an increase in violent crime, though I have to admit that their arguments don’t make a whole lot of sense to me. The vast majority of crimes in which a gun is used already involve individuals who aren’t legally allowed to own one, so the fact that legal gun owners can now carry in Texas without the need for a government-issued license doesn’t equate to more violence overall.*
*


In fact, a new report out of West Virginia shows that five years after Constitutional Carry took effect in the Mountaineer State, violent crime didn’t increase. Instead, it dropped substantially.
*


> *The FBI Crime Data Explorer showed the rate of violent crime offenses by population in West Virginia at 362.7 per 100,000 in 2016, the year the law passed. That number had risen from 347.5 in 2015, 316.4 in 2014, and 305.2 in 2013. After that, the violent crime rate in the Mountain State has been mostly downhill: 361.2 in 2017; 299.9 in 2018; and 316.6 in 2019. One provision: The FBI doesn’t receive reports from all of the state’s approximately 435 law enforcement agencies.
> The number of violent crime offenses involving handguns did increase briefly in the wake of the new law: From 529 in 2015 to 706 in 2016 and 644 in 2017. But after that, in 2018 (458) and 2019 (358) the handgun total was more closely aligned to what it had been leading up to the passage of the law.*











						Data Shows Crime Dropped After WV Adopted Constitutional Carry
					

Despite the predictions from gun control activists, West Virginia's a safer place five years after Constitutional Carry took effect.




					bearingarms.com
				




What was going on in 2016?   The democrat party "defund and attack the police" movement was in full swing....created by blm and the democrat party.........

The democrat party, not law abiding gun owners, creates gun crime......we need to vote them out of office.


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## occupied (Sep 21, 2021)

What kind of pussy is so scared they think they need to walk around like Matt Dillon?


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> The truth? Normal people who own and carry guns do not commit gun crime, gun murder or general crime.



Pictured.  Dick Tiny's idea of "Normal People".


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## Hugo Furst (Sep 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Pictured.  Dick Tiny's idea of "Normal People".
> 
> View attachment 542059
> View attachment 542060
> View attachment 542061



no

that looks like your idea of everyday gun owners.

an extremely stupid one at that.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 21, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> no
> 
> that looks like your idea of everyday gun owners.
> 
> an extremely stupid one at that.



As I've said, there's a big difference between everyday gun owners, who don't want to share their streets with an armed Joker Holmes than I do, and the gun fetishists who think that Joker Holmes should have a gun because the Founding Slave Rapists said it was his God Given Right. 




Really, totally what the Framers had in mind.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Sep 21, 2021)

occupied said:


> What kind of pussy is so scared they think they need to walk around like Matt Dillon?


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## occupied (Sep 21, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> View attachment 542070


LOL we all know permissive gun rights are for white people alone. You might be alright walking around like a cowboy but it would get a black man shot on sight.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Sep 21, 2021)

occupied said:


> LOL we all know permissive gun rights are for white people alone. You might be alright walking around like a cowboy but it would get a black man shot on sight.


Like it did every man in that photo.


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## occupied (Sep 21, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Like it did every man in that photo.


Don't be dense. The cops see a black man with a gun and their hand automatically goes for their holster. A piece of paper saying they are within their rights don't mean shit to a scared cop with an itchy trigger finger.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Sep 21, 2021)

occupied said:


> Don't be dense. The cops see a black man with a gun and their hand automatically goes for their holster. A piece of paper saying they are within their rights don't mean shit to a scared cop with an itchy trigger finger.


And please show me where a cop has backed down from a white man with a gun.


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## EMH (Sep 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> As I've said, there's a big difference between everyday gun owners, who don't want to share their streets with an armed Joker Holmes than I do, and the gun fetishists who think that Joker Holmes should have a gun because the Founding Slave Rapists said it was his God Given Right.
> 
> View attachment 542063
> Really, totally what the Framers had in mind.




The joker of the Colorado theater shooting is another Jew, just like you.....

Ban guns for Jews - who would have thought of that....

YOUR HERO!!!!!


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## occupied (Sep 21, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> And please show me where a cop has backed down from a white man with a gun.


Quit acting like you don't know what I am talking about. A black man with a legal gun is way more likely to get shot by the cops than a white man and you would not have it any other way.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Sep 21, 2021)

occupied said:


> Quit acting like you don't know what I am talking about. A black man with a legal gun is way more likely to get shot by the cops than a white man and you would not have it any other way.


So you can't walk your talk.  Got it.


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## Blues Man (Sep 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> As I've said, there's a big difference between everyday gun owners, who don't want to share their streets with an armed Joker Holmes than I do, and the gun fetishists who think that Joker Holmes should have a gun because the Founding Slave Rapists said it was his God Given Right.
> 
> View attachment 542063
> Really, totally what the Framers had in mind.


You dream about his dick too don't you?

How sticky is that picture of him you have by your bed?


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## Coyote (Sep 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Whenever a state adopts Constitutional carry, or any kind of law that allows normal, good people to own and carry a gun, the anti-gun extremists create a fantasy world where blood runs in the streets.
> 
> The truth?   Normal people who own and carry guns do not commit gun crime, gun murder or general crime.
> 
> ...



The law passed in 2016….

First year homicide went up: 









						Firearm fatalities climbed in WV after concealed carry law passed in 2016
					

Mountaineer News ServiceWest Virginia UniversityWest Virginia State Trooper David Fry was on duty one evening last March when the call came in: a report of domestic violence at an apartment




					www.williamsondailynews.com
				




Between 2014 and 2019, violent crime rose, went down and rose again.








						West Virginia Crime Statistics and Rates Report (WV) - CityRating.com
					

West Virginia crime statistics including violent and property crime rates, with murder, rape, assault, arson, larceny, burglary and car theft data reports. West Virginia crime report (WV).



					www.cityrating.com
				




And another showing crime rates over a period of time:









						West Virginia's constitutional carry law doesn't appear to have moved needle much, if at all, on violent crime
					

CHARLESTON — Back in 2016, after the Legislature repealed the law requiring a concealed carry permit for most adult residents, some were wondering if it would set off a new




					www.wvnews.com
				








The only significant decline is from 2009 to 2014.

Concealed carry had no significant effect.


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## McRib (Sep 21, 2021)

Coyote said:


> The law passed in 2016….
> 
> First year homicide went up:
> 
> ...



/End of Gun Fetish Thread.


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## Crepitus (Sep 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Whenever a state adopts Constitutional carry, or any kind of law that allows normal, good people to own and carry a gun, the anti-gun extremists create a fantasy world where blood runs in the streets.
> 
> The truth?   Normal people who own and carry guns do not commit gun crime, gun murder or general crime.
> 
> ...


Crime went down almost everywhere o er the last five years or so.  It was a national trend.


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## Blues Man (Sep 21, 2021)

odanny said:


> /End of Gun Fetish Thread.


Guns in the hands of law abiding citizens is a neutral factor in crime stats.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 21, 2021)

occupied said:


> What kind of pussy is so scared they think they need to walk around like Matt Dillon?


Do we need more gun control?


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 21, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Crime went down almost everywhere o er the last five years or so.  It was a national trend.


Actually, crime went up in 2020


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 21, 2021)

Coyote said:


> The law passed in 2016….
> 
> First year homicide went up:
> 
> ...


If crime went down, then gun ownership isn't a problem.


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## hadit (Sep 21, 2021)

occupied said:


> Don't be dense. The cops see a black man with a gun and their hand automatically goes for their holster. A piece of paper saying they are within their rights don't mean shit to a scared cop with an itchy trigger finger.


The key here being "SEE". The whole point of concealed carry is "CONCEALED".


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## hadit (Sep 21, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Crime went down almost everywhere o er the last five years or so.  It was a national trend.


All the while more guns were around. You know that means that more guns does NOT mean more crime, right?


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## hadit (Sep 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Pictured.  Dick Tiny's idea of "Normal People".
> 
> View attachment 542059
> View attachment 542060
> View attachment 542061


Wow, no wonder anti-gunners seem nuts. They apparently believe that's normal.


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## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2021)

occupied said:


> Quit acting like you don't know what I am talking about. A black man with a legal gun is way more likely to get shot by the cops than a white man and you would not have it any other way.



That is a lie.  More armed whites are shot  by police you idiot


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Sep 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> As I've said, there's a big difference between everyday gun owners, who don't want to share their streets with an armed Joker Holmes than I do, and the gun fetishists who think that Joker Holmes should have a gun because the Founding Slave Rapists said it was his God Given Right.
> 
> View attachment 542063
> Really, totally what the Framers had in mind.


Holmes can't have a gun.  He's in prison.


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## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Crime went down almost everywhere o er the last five years or so.  It was a national trend.



Doesnt matter moron.  You guys tell us that normal people carrying guns increases gun crime, so according to you gun crime in Weast Virginia should have gone up, not down, you doofus.


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## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2021)

Coyote said:


> The law passed in 2016….
> 
> First year homicide went up:
> 
> ...



Shithead, blm and the democrats attacked thw police starting in 2015.  Crime went down even with constitutional carry you moron


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## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> As I've said, there's a big difference between everyday gun owners, who don't want to share their streets with an armed Joker Holmes than I do, and the gun fetishists who think that Joker Holmes should have a gun because the Founding Slave Rapists said it was his God Given Right.
> 
> View attachment 542063
> Really, totally what the Framers had in mind.



12 individuals comitted lmass public shootings in 2019…. Out of a population of over 330 million.  Total killed 73

deer killed 200

ladders killed 300

your god, government, keeps knowing and failing to stop these guys.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 21, 2021)

Coyote said:


> View attachment 542083
> 
> The only significant decline is from 2009 to 2014.
> 
> Concealed carry had no significant effect.


The law  passed in 2016.
What does the graph show after 2016?


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 21, 2021)

West Virginia adopted Constitutional carry 5 years ago.  Crime went down, not up,​
Criminals already carry guns, concealed or otherwise  - why would making it easier for the law abiding to do so cause gun-related crime to increase?


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## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2021)

Crepitus said:


> Crime went down almost everywhere o er the last five years or so.  It was a national trend.




27 years......more guns.......less gun crime and gun murder...

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why?   Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2)  The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........


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## 2aguy (Sep 21, 2021)

Coyote said:


> The law passed in 2016….
> 
> First year homicide went up:
> 
> ...




Moron....as M14 points out....look at the graph........

Then read the first post...

*The FBI Crime Data Explorer showed the rate of violent crime offenses by population in West Virginia at 362.7 per 100,000 in 2016, the year the law passed. 

That number had risen from 347.5 in 2015, 316.4 in 2014, and 305.2 in 2013. After that, the violent crime rate in the Mountain State has been mostly downhill: 361.2 in 2017; 299.9 in 2018; and 316.6 in 2019. One provision: The FBI doesn’t receive reports from all of the state’s approximately 435 law enforcement agencies.


The number of violent crime offenses involving handguns did increase briefly in the wake of the new law: From 529 in 2015 to 706 in 2016 and 644 in 2017. But after that, in 2018 (458) and 2019 (358) the handgun total was more closely aligned to what it had been leading up to the passage of the law.*


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## Coyote (Sep 21, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron....as M14 points out....look at the graph........
> 
> Then read the first post...
> 
> ...


Look at the graph again, moron.

2017….went down.  2018, 2019…rose.  2020 isn’t there but crime increased all over so I’m sure it was up in WV.  Concealed carry had no causal effect on crime rates, clearly something else is driving it.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2021)

EMH said:


> The joker of the Colorado theater shooting is another Jew, just like you.....
> 
> Ban guns for Jews - who would have thought of that....
> 
> YOUR HERO!!!!!



Wow, seriously, man, get help.  



Blues Man said:


> You dream about his dick too don't you?
> 
> How sticky is that picture of him you have by your bed?



Naw, man, I don't worry about Holmes himself...  he's in prison. I worry about the NEXT one, who has everyone in his life knowing he is crazy, and he's able to walk into a gun store and buy a gun anyway.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> That is a lie. More armed whites are shot by police you idiot



Blacks represent 13% of the population and 30% of the people shot by police.


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## surada (Sep 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Whenever a state adopts Constitutional carry, or any kind of law that allows normal, good people to own and carry a gun, the anti-gun extremists create a fantasy world where blood runs in the streets.
> 
> The truth?   Normal people who own and carry guns do not commit gun crime, gun murder or general crime.
> 
> ...



What else do you know about West Virginia?


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Blacks represent 13% of the population and 30% of the people shot by police.
> 
> View attachment 542464




Moron, black men are 7% of the population but cause over 50% of the murder in this country....you idiot.


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Look at the graph again, moron.
> 
> 2017….went down.  2018, 2019…rose.  2020 isn’t there but crime increased all over so I’m sure it was up in WV.  Concealed carry had no causal effect on crime rates, clearly something else is driving it.




What caused the increase in violent crime?

Blm and the democrat party attacking the police......democrat party judges and prosecutors releasing violent criminals back into their communities over and over again on bail and short prison sentences which decreases the likelihood that anyone in those communities will help the police...

That increased violent crime starting in 2015 when the democrat party declared it's war on the police...


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron, black men are 7% of the population but cause over 50% of the murder in this country....you idiot.



By that logic, Men constitute 88% of those arrested for murder.  Maybe we should ban men from owning guns.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> What caused the increase in violent crime?
> 
> Blm and the democrat party attacking the police......democrat party judges and prosecutors releasing violent criminals back into their communities over and over again on bail and short prison sentences which decreases the likelihood that anyone in those communities will help the police...
> 
> That increased violent crime starting in 2015 when the democrat party declared it's war on the police...



Wrong again... Crime is at all time lows up until 2019. 









						Reported violent crime rate in the U.S. 2021 | Statista
					

In 2021, the violent crime rate in the United States was 395.7 cases per 100,000 of the population.




					www.statista.com
				










Now, we don't have good numbers for 2020 yet, but probably a lot of factors involved there, including the worst recession in 80 years, the worst plauge in 100 years and the worst race riots in 50 years, because "MAGA", I guess.  

It's not going to be anwhere near what it was in the Aughts or the nineties, though. 

One could equally argue that legal abortion caused a dip in crime.  The crime rate started going down 1991, when it peaked... This would be 18 years the first wave of unwanted kids ended up in the bottom of medical waste containers after Roe v. Wade.   

Abortion brought down the Crime rate... Hurray for Abortion!!!!  

Makes about as much sense as your gun theories.  

Conversely, the number really starts declining after 1993, which is when Clinton got the Brady Bill passed.


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> By that logic, Men constitute 88% of those arrested for murder.  Maybe we should ban men from owning guns.




When the most violent group in society interacts with police, they are going to cause more problems for the police, you idiot.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> When the most violent group in society interacts with police, they are going to cause more problems for the police, you idiot.



Hey, Dick Tiny, tell us how not racist you are again, that shit never gets old.


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Wrong again... Crime is at all time lows up until 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wrong, shithead........

But thanks for proving my point....

More and more Americans were out buying and carrying guns....and the crime rate kept going down....gun murder went down 49%, gun crime went down 75%...

As more Americans owned and carried guns, you moron.....you just showed, thank you, that gun ownership does not increase crime, gun crime or gun murder.....

You idiot.

Guns in the hands of normal people do not increase gun crime....you doofus...and you just proved it.....on your own.

Meanwhile, the democrat party began their war on the police...beginning in 2015.....and went into over drive with blm in 2019.......you doofus.......

When you attack the police, scream about taking their funding, and wrongfully accuse police of crimes....they pull back...and stop policing, so that they don't lose their jobs, and their pensions...

That is what caused the crime increase...the democrat party war on police...

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why?   Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2)  The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, Dick Tiny, tell us how not racist you are again, that shit never gets old.




Racism has nothing to do with it...statistics, you doofus...

Black men make up 7% of the population but commit over 50% of the murders.....the black family has been destroyed by the democrat party.....fatherless boys are the cause of crime.....fatherless as a result of democrat party policies.....


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## surada (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, Dick Tiny, tell us how not racist you are again, that shit never gets old.



Atlanta has had over 100 murders so far this year.. The data says the murder rate is up 17%..

The demographics aren't good ...


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Wrong again... Crime is at all time lows up until 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Conversely, the number really starts declining after 1993, which is when Clinton got the Brady Bill passed.

The Brady Bill didn't stop any criminal from getting a gun, you doofus...and again....*

*More Americans bought and carried guns, against everything you say will happen.........and the gun crime rate went down 75%.....the gun murder rate went down 49%.....*

*So by your very own posts you prove that guns in the hands of normal people do not increase any crime....you idiot.*

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why?   Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....

2)  The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

surada said:


> Atlanta has had over 100 murders so far this year.. The data says the murder rate is up 17%..
> 
> The demographics aren't good ...



Atlanta....democrat party controlled since 1879.....









						List of mayors of Atlanta - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Wrong, shithead........
> 
> But thanks for proving my point....
> 
> ...



Actually, gun ownership has DECLINED.  




Now, yeah, there are more guns out there, because the gun nuts are stockpiling.


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## JoeB131 (Sep 22, 2021)

2aguy said:


> 1) the democrat party keeps releasing violent gun offenders...they have created a revolving door for criminals who use guns, and will release even the most serious gun offenders over and over again....why? Probably because they realise that normal people don't use their guns for crime, so if they want to push gun control, they need criminals to shoot people.....so they keep releasing them....
> 
> 2) The democrat party keeps attacking the police.....driving the officers into not doing pro-active policing, cutting detective forces so that murders go unsolved..........



Actually, police numbers haven't declined.  









						Police Say Demoralized Officers Are Quitting In Droves. Labor Data Says No.
					

While other industries were devastated by the pandemic last year, police departments felt a much smaller impact.




					www.themarshallproject.org
				




And most gun murderers kill people they know...


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## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, gun ownership has DECLINED.
> View attachment 542469
> 
> Now, yeah, there are more guns out there, because the gun nuts are stockpiling.




Wrong...shithead...the GSS is a lie...the guys in charge use it to influence, not track, policy....

Gun-Homicide Rate Decreased as Gun Ownership Increased

*Based on data from a 2012 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report(and additional data from another Wonkblog article “There are now more guns than people in the United States”), the number of privately owned firearms in U.S. increased from about 185 million in 1993 to 357 million in 2013.*
*
-------------------------------*

https://crimeresearch.org/2020/08/r...-guns-have-bought-one-in-the-last-six-months/

*A new Rasmussen Report survey shows that 47 percent of American households own a gun, with 5 percent either not sure/refusing to answer the question. *

Assuming that 47 percent of those who aren’t sure or refusing to answer whether they own a gun actually do, half of American households own guns. (The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted August 5, 2020 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.)
While men were more likely than women to own a gun (54 to 41 percent) and whites were more likely than blacks (50 to 26 percent), those differences appear to be shrinking. Twenty-seven percent of household have bought a gun in the last five months. Women were more likely than men to buy a gun (32 to 23 percent), blacks were much more likely than whites (47 to 22 percent), and the young were much more likely than old (42 percent for those 18 to 39 versus 20 percent for those 40 to 64 and just 12 percent for those 65 and older).
*-----


Is gun ownership really down in America? | Fox News
*
*Surely, gun control advocates such as GSS director Tom Smith view this decline as a good thing. In a 2003 book of mine, I quoted Smith as saying that the large drop in gun ownership would “make it easier for politicians to do the right thing on guns” and pass more restrictive regulations. **

Other gun control advocates have mentioned to me that they hope that if people believe fewer people own guns, that may cause others to rethink their decision to own one themselves. It is part of the reason they dramatically exaggerate the risks of having guns in the home.

The Associated Press and Time ignored other polls by Gallup and ABC News/Washington Post.
*
*These polls show that gun ownership rates have been flat over the same period. According to Gallup, household gun ownership has ranged from 51 percent in 1994 to 34 percent in 1999. In 2014, it was at 42 percent – comparable to the 43-45 percent figures during the 1970s.

A 2011 Gallup poll with the headline “Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993” appears to have gotten no news coverage.**


There are other measures that suggest that we should be very careful of relying too heavily on polling to gauge the level of gun ownership. For example, the nationally number of concealed handgun permits has soared over the last decade: rising from about 2.7 million in 1999 to 4.6 million in 2007 to 11.1 million in 2014.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) shows that the number of gun purchases has grown dramatically over time –doubling from 2006 to 2014. 

---------------
*
*
Gun industry, Bloomberg media square off over female gun owner data

Putting a pin in the balloon of rising female gun ownership, the Trace, a journalism start up funded by Michael Bloomberg’s Everytown for Gun Safety, consulted the General Social Survey. A project of the University of Chicago’s National Opinion Research Center, the GSS has conducted a sociological survey since 1972 to collect historical data on everything from government spending to race relations.

When it comes to gun ownership by women, the pollsters noted the number has averaged about 11 percent over the past three decades with slight dips, to as low as 9.1 percent in 1989, and slight increases, to as high as 13.7 percent in 1982.

“There’s been no meaningful directional change in the percent of women owning guns,” said Tom Smith, the director of the GSS.

However, the National Shooting Sports Foundation on Thursday posted a rebuttal to the article, citing the GSS itself was flawed when it came to gun data– much as they did last yearwhen the survey noted a decline in gun ownership numbers despite eight straight years of increasing firearms sales that set all-time records.

The NSSF contends GSS isn’t actually counting the number of firearms in each household. Rather it is enumerating the number of individuals willing to talk to a stranger at their front door about how many firearms they own. The two concepts, holds the trade group, are vastly different.

“It is a staple of gun control politics to work to diminish both the size and the ever increasing diversity of the firearm-owning American citizenry,” noted Larry Keane, NSSF senior vice president and general counsel. “The Trace provides just the latest example.”

Besides noting the trade group’s own studies in female gun ownership rates, the NSSF also bemoaned the outlet for discounting previous articles in the mainstream media.

“The Trace also asks its readers to discount CBS News, Fox News, Ad Age and dozens of local reporters nationwide (collectively, a ‘credulous press’) who have actually gone to firearms retailers and ranges to report that they see evidence of more and more women buying guns and taking up target shooting as a recreational activity,” wrote Keane.*


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, police numbers haven't declined.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You troll....

Gang members know the rival gang members they shoot, the drug dealer stealing the cash and drugs of another dealer also knows that dealer....you moron.


----------



## Blues Man (Sep 22, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Wow, seriously, man, get help.
> 
> 
> 
> Naw, man, I don't worry about Holmes himself...  he's in prison. I worry about the NEXT one, who has everyone in his life knowing he is crazy, and he's able to walk into a gun store and buy a gun anyway.


So you dream about the dicks of guys you don't know.

Got it.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Sep 22, 2021)

Coyote said:


> Concealed carry had no causal effect on crime rates, clearly something else is driving it.


Given the sharp decline in WV after the 2016 law was passed, compared to the shallow decline at the national level, how do you reach this conclusion?


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 23, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Wrong...shithead...the GSS is a lie...the guys in charge use it to influence, not track, policy....



Actually, no. Gun ownership really has declined.  For instance, my dad was an avid hunter and hand a lot of rifles, and so did most of his friends.   My generation, very few own guns, very few hunt.  

This was part of the Gun Industry's dilema. When murdering small animals stopped being seen as a "sport" and started being seen as "cruelty to animals", the gun industry had a problem. They needed to find new markets... and that market ended up being crazy people who stockpile guns because they want to fight the government and those gangs of criminals they think lurk behind every corner. 




2aguy said:


> Gang members know the rival gang members they shoot, the drug dealer stealing the cash and drugs of another dealer also knows that dealer....you moron.



Yawn, only 2000 homicides are year are classified as "Gang Related', which means someone involved had an affiliation with a gang.  The other 17,000 aren't.   



Blues Man said:


> So you dream about the dicks of guys you don't know.
> 
> Got it.



Little projection going on there?  Sorry, man, you aren't my type.


----------



## Blues Man (Sep 23, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, no. Gun ownership really has declined.  For instance, my dad was an avid hunter and hand a lot of rifles, and so did most of his friends.   My generation, very few own guns, very few hunt.
> 
> This was part of the Gun Industry's dilema. When murdering small animals stopped being seen as a "sport" and started being seen as "cruelty to animals", the gun industry had a problem. They needed to find new markets... and that market ended up being crazy people who stockpile guns because they want to fight the government and those gangs of criminals they think lurk behind every corner.
> 
> ...


Says the guy who obsesses over dicks


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 23, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, no. Gun ownership really has declined.  For instance, my dad was an avid hunter and hand a lot of rifles, and so did most of his friends.   My generation, very few own guns, very few hunt.
> 
> This was part of the Gun Industry's dilema. When murdering small animals stopped being seen as a "sport" and started being seen as "cruelty to animals", the gun industry had a problem. They needed to find new markets... and that market ended up being crazy people who stockpile guns because they want to fight the government and those gangs of criminals they think lurk behind every corner.
> 
> ...




Moron...I showed you the research...it hasn't declined.

What has declined?

Americans who own guns talking to anonymous strangers on the phone......because we have already seen shitheads like you trying to get access to any records on these people so you can put them out into public...so they can be targeted by thieves and democrat party terrorists...


----------



## JoeB131 (Sep 24, 2021)

2aguy said:


> Moron...I showed you the research...it hasn't declined.
> 
> What has declined?
> 
> Americans who own guns talking to anonymous strangers on the phone......because we have already seen shitheads like you trying to get access to any records on these people so you can put them out into public...so they can be targeted by thieves and democrat party terrorists...



Wait, guy, I thought that you all said guns in the home DETERRED bad guys.  

Frankly, I think we need a Megan's list equivalent for gun owners so sensible parents don't send little Timmy over to his friend's gun nut parents house.


----------



## hadit (Sep 29, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> Blacks represent 13% of the population and 30% of the people shot by police.
> 
> View attachment 542464


You know about statistics. What you posted could easily be used to demonstrate why it's a good idea to be armed. You're less likely to be shot by the police.


----------



## 2aguy (Sep 29, 2021)

hadit said:


> You know about statistics. What you posted could easily be used to demonstrate why it's a good idea to be armed. You're less likely to be shot by the police.



Black men are 7% of the population but commit over 50 % of the murders….thanks to the democrat party destruction of the black family


----------



## Ivan88 (Oct 1, 2021)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Do we need more gun control?


Yes we need to regulate Congress, President and the Military and stop their lust for perpetual wars around the world that have brought America much Guilt and Shame, and heavy Judgements coming for Americans.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Oct 2, 2021)

Ivan88 said:


> Yes we need to regulate Congress, President and the Military and stop their lust for perpetual wars around the world that have brought America much Guilt and Shame, and heavy Judgements coming for Americans.


That's the least of our problems.


----------



## Ridgerunner (Feb 19, 2022)

Indiana Senate could change stance on handgun carry permits
		










						Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition - The Legendary Army Chaplain Of Pearl Harbor
					

Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition And - We'll - All - Stay - Free! Desperate times call for desperate measures. When Pearl Harbor was hit in a




					www.warhistoryonline.com


----------



## Woodznutz (Mar 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> 12 individuals comitted lmass public shootings in 2019…. Out of a population of over 330 million.  Total killed 73
> 
> deer killed 200
> 
> ...


There is a segment of the population who disproportionally die prematurely from gunshots (young black men), however most others who die prematurely do so from other causes.


----------



## Woodznutz (Mar 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, gun ownership has DECLINED.
> View attachment 542469
> 
> Now, yeah, there are more guns out there, because the gun nuts are stockpiling.


Mostly due to the decline in sport shooting and hunting, especially the recruitment of youth into those activities. Also, those 'retired' guns were likely bought by someone who still enjoys shooting sports or collecting.


----------



## Abatis (Mar 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> By that logic, Men constitute 88% of those arrested for murder.  Maybe we should ban men from owning guns.



Nah, just Black men . . .  If young Black males, aged 15-29 could just act White and shoot and kill each other at the same rate as young White non-Hispanic males shoot and kill each other, that would reduce those murders in the Black community by 95.3%. 

If Black males were shot and killed at the White rate, there would have been 275 murders of young Black males aged 15-29 in 2020 instead of 5,859.

Screengrabs from CDC WISQARS:








​


----------



## Abatis (Mar 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, Dick Tiny, tell us how not racist you are again, that shit never gets old.



Facts aren't racist and calling people who are just reciting facts racist, just means you are a leftist asshole who has no argument.


----------



## Abatis (Mar 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Racism has nothing to do with it...statistics, you doofus...



But the leftist's ease in (and total reliance on) using the label "racist" to disparage conservatives has everything to do with the paralysis leftists suffer on this issue of crime and gun crime in particular.

Especially for White "savior" type Democrats / leftists, their fear of being labeled a racist themselves makes them incapable of undergoing the true inspection of the criminal culture in the Black "community".  This leads directly to crime "solutions" that will never work, like the false belief that "gun control" will have any impact on the particular problems in the Black community.



2aguy said:


> Black men make up 7% of the population but commit over 50% of the murders.....



 As shocking as that number is, I pull out just those most at risk, ages 15-29.

Black males aged 15-29 represent 1.7% of the US population but experience 30% of gun murders. 

And just because I know someone is asking, White males aged 15-29 represent 5.5% of US population and experience 4.7% of gun homicides.

There must be something else going on besides gun availability that "makes" young Black males outperform 15-29 y.o. White males by _*21.3 *_*times* in the gun homicide rate. Would JoeB131 posit that young Black men own 23 times the number of guns?

Here's a demonstration of just how insane the gun homicide rate is for that demographic; if the entire nation (population 329,484,123 -- 2020 CDC #'s) was murdered with a gun at the same rate as Black males aged 15-29, (106.41/100K), there would have been 350,604 gun murders in 2020, *18 times* the actual total.

There ain't a damn thing racist about saying that . . .

It is very racist to ignore it and refuse to recognize and accept that some hard questions need to be asked and difficult conversations need to be had.


----------



## Abatis (Mar 13, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, Dick Tiny, tell us how not racist you are again, that shit never gets old.



Please regale us with tales of your self-hating homo-erotic fascination with gun owner's dicks and how you throw around "racist" to try to avoid having any real discussions about crime in America . . .


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 14, 2022)

Abatis said:


> Nah, just Black men . . . If young Black males, aged 15-29 could just act White and shoot and kill each other at the same rate as young White non-Hispanic males shoot and kill each other, that would reduce those murders in the Black community by 95.3%.
> 
> If Black males were shot and killed at the White rate, there would have been 275 murders of young Black males aged 15-29 in 2020 instead of 5,859.



That's right.. claim  the carnage is okay because 'it's only the darkies dying".   then absolutely shit yourself when someone like Lanza or Cruz or Holmes shoots up a bunch of white people, because people might pay attention. 

The thing is, the Urban areas WANT to ban guns.  They want to ban guns, really bad.  And when they try, the NRA runs off to the courts and gets those bans overturned 



Abatis said:


> Facts aren't racist and calling people who are just reciting facts racist, just means you are a leftist asshole who has no argument.



Wait for it... wait for it...  


Abatis said:


> Especially for White "savior" type Democrats / leftists, their fear of being labeled a racist themselves makes them incapable of undergoing the *true inspection of the criminal culture in the Black "community". *This leads directly to crime "solutions" that will never work, like the false belief that "gun control" will have any impact on the particular problems in the Black community.



Except the rest of the industrialized world bans private gun ownership and has nowhere near our problems. 



Abatis said:


> Please regale us with tales of your self-hating homo-erotic fascination with gun owner's dicks and how you throw around "racist" to try to avoid having any real discussions about crime in America . . .



Sorry, man, I don't need to compensate.  I was in the army for 11 years, and guns just don't impress me the way they do you.  

I mean, I'm sorry for your inadequecies and your racial fears, but the rest of us are getting a little tired of the carnage that comes along with your fetish. 

So simple enough solution. No more gun bans.  Just let the gun industry regulate itself, and let the families of those killed by guns sue them for negligence when they let them get into the wrong hands. 

You'd be amazed how quickly they clean up their acts.


----------



## Abatis (Mar 14, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> That's right.. claim  the carnage is okay because 'it's only the darkies dying".



You prove you have no real argument every time you feel the need to invent positions for me . . .  Positions I have never even alluded to, but you feel I _must_ have so you can feel a sense of I guess, moral superiority.

In reality, your constant, unfailing reliance on logical fallacy shows you are a fraud and an intellectual lightweight in debate.



JoeB131 said:


> then absolutely shit yourself when someone like Lanza or Cruz or Holmes shoots up a bunch of white people, because people might pay attention.



Again, more straw-man as a substitute for knowing what you are talking about.



JoeB131 said:


> The thing is, the Urban areas WANT to ban guns.  They want to ban guns, really bad.  And when they try, the NRA runs off to the courts and gets those bans overturned



No shit Democrat-run urban hellholes wan to ban guns.  They, like you are stupid and haven't learned yet that in the USA you can't ban guns . . .  Government's must keep their operations within the confines of the Federal Constitution and respect the rights of US citizens.



JoeB131 said:


> Except the rest of the industrialized world bans private gun ownership and has nowhere near our problems.



Again, what other nations do is of no interest to me.  That they have stricter gun control does not impress or sway me. 



JoeB131 said:


> Sorry, man, I don't need to compensate.



It is obvious that a significant portion of your anti-gun argument is focused on the genitalia of people who own guns.  It is one of the main reliable features in your posts, strung along with with the other tired straw-men, I'm racist and that I harbor concern for the rights of Lanza or Cruz or Holmes being the most common.

Your entire existence here is you compensating for holding your political positions as emotional constructs, not logical ones.  You feel, you don't think which is why all that comes across is contempt if not hate of gun owners, gun rights supporters and conservatives in general. You are a pathetic, hollow little mind _and you know it_ but you pretend you to think compelling thoughts, hoping your false bravado and real anti-social hostility is fooling people.



JoeB131 said:


> I was in the army for 11 years, and guns just don't impress me the way they do you.



A perfect example of what a pathetic, hollow little mind would feel is a compelling statement.



JoeB131 said:


> I mean, I'm sorry for your inadequecies and your racial fears, but the rest of us are getting a little tired of the carnage that comes along with your fetish.



And more confession by projection and puffed shirt moralizing. 



JoeB131 said:


> So simple enough solution. No more gun bans.  Just let the gun industry regulate itself, and let the families of those killed by guns sue them for negligence when they let them get into the wrong hands. You'd be amazed how quickly they clean up their acts.



And now we are told of your fantasies, excluding reality hoping that your desires will come true if only you could stomp out everyone who disagrees with you.

Are you really so clueless as to think any of your mindless, childish drivel is compelling, reasoned argument, upon which thinking people should ground public policy?

Thanks for the laugh on a cold, Monday morning; I need to do much more important things than point out your deficiencies, like go out and fill the bird feeders . . .

.


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 14, 2022)

Abatis said:


> Please regale us with tales of your self-hating homo-erotic fascination with gun owner's dicks and how you throw around "racist" to try to avoid having any real discussions about crime in America . . .



*Please regale us with tales of your self-hating homo-erotic fascination with gun owner's dicks

Please....don't encourage him........*


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 14, 2022)

Abatis said:


> You prove you have no real argument every time you feel the need to invent positions for me . . . Positions I have never even alluded to, but you feel I _must_ have so you can feel a sense of I guess, moral superiority.
> 
> In reality, your constant, unfailing reliance on logical fallacy shows you are a fraud and an intellectual lightweight in debate.



I'm not the one who advocates for an industry that kills 42,000 Americans every year... that would be you. 



Abatis said:


> No shit Democrat-run urban hellholes wan to ban guns. They, like you are stupid and haven't learned yet that in the USA you can't ban guns . . . Government's must keep their operations within the confines of the Federal Constitution and respect the rights of US citizens.



Then why not let them?  Let a city like Chicago have a comprehensive gun ban, and when it doesn't work, you can say, "I told you so!"  



Abatis said:


> Again, what other nations do is of no interest to me. That they have stricter gun control does not impress or sway me.



I'm sure it doesn't... it probably terrifies you that the 80% of us who aren't gun nuts might finally get fed up with your nonsense and try what they are doing. 



Abatis said:


> Your entire existence here is you compensating for holding your political positions as emotional constructs, not logical ones. You feel, you don't think which is why all that comes across is contempt if not hate of gun owners, gun rights supporters and conservatives in general.



Frankly, most gun owners aren't the problem here.  It's the nutters like you and 2TinyGuy who seem to think that Adam Lanza should have a military grade assault rifle because the Founding Slave Owners couldn't carefully craft a militia amendment coherently.  

I'd have no problem with guns that are licensed, properly background checked, screened, insured and properly stored.  You know- Well-regulated. 

"BUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!!!"


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm not the one who advocates for an industry that kills 42,000 Americans every year... that would be you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The "industry" doesn't kill anyone....the violent criminals that the democrat party judges and prosecutors continue to release into primarily black and minority neighborhoods murder the vast majority of the gun murder victims in democrat party controlled cities...

Your beef is with them, not the people who make guns.

Chicago had a comprehensive gun ban and had a huge gun murder rate, you idiot.....they still don't have any gun stores or gun ranges in the city limits.....and the democrats in Chicago have made it impossible for the police to do their jobs....and kim foxx and other democrats keep releasing the most violent criminals back into black neighborhoods.......

The AR-15 is not a military weapon, you lying sack of shit.....

In a country of over 320 million people, guys like the theater shooter committed 6 mass public shootings in 2021.....2 in 2020....

6 people, out of over 320 million....and you want to ban guns based on that number...while on average 1.1 million Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings and stabbings every year.......

According to your logic...

73 people were killed by the 6 mass public shooters in 2021....

Since ....

Ladders kill 300 people a year

Deer kill 200 people a year

Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people a year

Bathtubs kill 350 people a year

Cars killed over 39 thousand people......

we now need to ban all of those things......


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm not the one who advocates for an industry that kills 42,000 Americans every year... that would be you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The other nations of the world?


Since 1917....

European socialists murdered 15 million 

Russian sociallists murdered 25 million

Chinese Socialists murdered 70 million


This is more people murdered by their governments than by all of the criminals who use guns to commit murder.....and yet you think only government should have guns........you are an idiot, who does not understand human history or human nature...

Ask the Ukrainians if they think it was a good idea to keep people from owning guns, in particular rifles, in their country...you moron.


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The "industry" doesn't kill anyone....the violent criminals that the democrat party judges and prosecutors continue to release into primarily black and minority neighborhoods murder the vast majority of the gun murder victims in democrat party controlled cities...



The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides and domestic violence because people who shouldn't have guns can get them.  



2aguy said:


> Chicago had a comprehensive gun ban and had a huge gun murder rate, you idiot.....they still don't have any gun stores or gun ranges in the city limits.....and the democrats in Chicago have made it impossible for the police to do their jobs....and kim foxx and other democrats keep releasing the most violent criminals back into black neighborhoods.......



Chicago didn't have a huge murder rate until after the McDonald Decision...  that's when it shot up.


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> What kind of pussy is so scared they think they need to walk around like Matt Dillon?


The most polite places are gun carrying places, less crime, it’s our culture. Assimilate


----------



## occupied (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> The most polite places are gun carrying places, less crime, it’s our culture. Assimilate


I've been in some bad situations. Can't think of a single one that would have been better with a gun in my hand. I'd probably still be in jail.


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> I've been in some bad situations. Can't think of a single one that would have been better with a gun in my hand. I'd probably still be in jail.


Same here.. I probably should have been put down or learned a lesson 20 years ago. Neither will happen now because I live in a place that makes it impossible to carry


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> There is a segment of the population who disproportionally die prematurely from gunshots (young black men), however most others who die prematurely do so from other causes.


That is the very reason the powers that be do nothing to stop the inner city violence in this country.


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides and domestic violence because people who shouldn't have guns can get them.
> 
> 
> 
> Chicago didn't have a huge murder rate until after the McDonald Decision...  that's when it shot up.


Suicide is a choice and most murders are NOT domestic violence


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> There is a segment of the population who disproportionally die prematurely from gunshots (young black men), however most others who die prematurely do so from other causes.


Broken families and bad education is why blacks die young


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Broken families and bad education is why blacks die young


Along with de-facto segregation forced generational poverty, poor schools, drugs and violence.


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Along with de-facto segregation forced generational poverty, poor schools, drugs and violence.


Blacks want  segregated schools


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Blacks want  segregated schools



You don't seem to understand the history of this country or sociology and the results of the political and economic factors that have made our society what it is


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> You don't seem to understand the history of this country or sociology and the results of the political and economic factors that have made our society what it is


I actually do, I grew up in a historically black city after historical decision about desegregation, my classmates were 98% not white. I’m pretty sure I’m the only person here qualified to talk about this.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> I've been in some bad situations. Can't think of a single one that would have been better with a gun in my hand. I'd probably still be in jail.


Sounds like a good idea to me.


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> I actually do, I grew up in a historically black city after historical decision about desegregation, my classmates were 98% not white. I’m pretty sure I’m the only person here qualified to talk about this.


I grew up in the shittiest part of the inner city and actually experienced the racism, the abuse by the cops, the indifference of so called government "leaders"  and the crushing poverty that was a result of the polic ies of this country


----------



## miketx (Mar 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Whenever a state adopts Constitutional carry, or any kind of law that allows normal, good people to own and carry a gun, the anti-gun extremists create a fantasy world where blood runs in the streets.
> 
> The truth?   Normal people who own and carry guns do not commit gun crime, gun murder or general crime.
> 
> ...


I agree with all but one thing, that being they don't have a clue. They do. They are simply lying commie filth that need to be removed.


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> I grew up in the shittiest part of the inner city and actually experienced the racism, the abuse by the cops, the indifference of so called government "leaders"  and the crushing poverty that was a result of the polic ies of this country


Are you white?


----------



## miketx (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Are you white?


He's blue, blue to the bone.


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Are you white?


Mixed

Too Black to be White too White to be Black


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Mixed
> 
> Too Black to be White too White to be Black


Are you saying you’re mulatto?


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

miketx said:


> He blue, blue to the bone.


Damn right I got the Blues


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Are you saying you’re mulatto?


No I am saying I am mixed.

Mulatto is just another label


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> No I am saying I am mixed.
> 
> Mulatto is just another label


I’m asking you a question so I can make my point are you mix with  One black one white? Stop hiding


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> I’m asking you a question so I can make my point are you mix with  One black one white? Stop hiding




I told you my ancestry is that of mixed race when I said I was too Black to be White and Too white to be Black then you should be able to figure it out.


----------



## occupied (Mar 15, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Sounds like a good idea to me.


Yes I know. Fascists often like to imprison people who disagree. Look at Putin. Now there's a conservative that knows how to own the libs.


----------



## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> I told you my ancestry is that of mixed race when I said I was too Black to be White and Too white to be Black then you should be able to figure it out.


Ok what ever you don’t want to be honest.. have.. your witnessing of racism was that towards Black people and white people?


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> Yes I know. *Fascists often like to imprison people who disagree.* Look at Putin. Now there's a conservative that knows how to own the libs.


Yes, they do.


----------



## occupied (Mar 15, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Yes, they do.
> 
> View attachment 616039


Fascists also think the law is something that only applies to their designated victims. Look at those simpletons. Absolutely certain Trump had their back. The fools.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> Fascists also think the law is something that only applies to their designated victims. Look at those simpletons. Absolutely certain Trump had their back. The fools.


And what does any of this have to do with you being in jail?

Whatever.  You do you.  It's entertaining.


----------



## occupied (Mar 15, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> And what does any of this have to do with you being in jail?
> 
> Whatever.  You do you.  It's entertaining.


Beats me you brought it up. I have not committed any crimes so you must think I belong in jail for my beliefs like all those people in Russia who dare to protest Putin's war.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> I've been in some bad situations. Can't think of a single one that would have been better with a gun in my hand.* I'd probably still be in jail.*


You're the one who said it.


----------



## occupied (Mar 15, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> You're the one who said it.


You answered my serious comment with a smartass remark. Apparently you think I need to be in jail. I just want to hear you say why.


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Ok what ever you don’t want to be honest.. have.. your witnessing of racism was that towards Black people and white people?


I am 100% honest

Unlike you I'm not hung up on race because the one thing I learned was that it doesn't fucking matter

It matters to people who like to use race as an excuse or a reason for failure or blame.

There is only one race and that is the human race.

And yes I got shit from both Blacks and Whites

White kids called me ****** and black kids called me whitey or cracker

My asshole foster father used to beat me and call me Klan Boy

So I lived rough from the age 14 to about 17 on the streets

So don;t tell me you think you know about racism and discrimination because you knew some black people when you were in school


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> You answered my serious comment with a smartass remark. Apparently you think I need to be in jail. I just want to hear you say why.


Vintage occupied folks.

This is what happens when you fail in that remedial reading class, kiddies.  Try harder.


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## occupied (Mar 15, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Vintage occupied folks.
> 
> This is what happens when you fail in that remedial reading class, kiddies.  Try harder.



Whatever troll. We're no longer discussing the topic so,,Mission accomplished.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Mar 15, 2022)

occupied said:


> Whatever troll. We're no longer discussing the topic so,,Mission accomplished.


It's something to do while waiting for the coats of paint to dry.


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## hadit (Mar 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm not the one who advocates for an industry that kills 42,000 Americans every year... that would be you.
> 
> Then why not let them?  Let a city like Chicago have a comprehensive gun ban, and when it doesn't work, you can say, "I told you so!"


Except that the Constitution applies to Chicago too. Chicago simply can't enact such a ban unless we amend the Constitution to allow them to do so.


JoeB131 said:


> I'm sure it doesn't... it probably terrifies you that the 80% of us who aren't gun nuts might finally get fed up with your nonsense and try what they are doing.
> 
> Frankly, most gun owners aren't the problem here.  It's the nutters like you and 2TinyGuy who seem to think that Adam Lanza should have a military grade assault rifle because the Founding Slave Owners couldn't carefully craft a militia amendment coherently.
> 
> ...


Actually, you WOULD have a massive problem with "guns that are licensed, properly background checked, screened, insured and properly stored", because they'd still be privately owned, and you can't handle that. You've already stated that you would like to outlaw private ownership of guns, so don't try to give us that, unless you're also going to state that you're modifying your position.


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## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> I am 100% honest
> 
> Unlike you I'm not hung up on race because the one thing I learned was that it doesn't fucking matter
> 
> ...


I live in a area  where white men have to be in rooms working shit jobs with lazy blacks who got hired  for AA, and tell whites to stop working hard so they can get over time .. race does matter we obviously can’t live together


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## Woodznutz (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> That is the very reason the powers that be do nothing to stop the inner city violence in this country.


That's because they know that "the right people are getting shot". -Dirty Harry, from "Magnum Force".


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## Woodznutz (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Broken families and bad education is why blacks die young


That can be said for other races as well. However, blacks have a deeper level of frustration than others that often leads to destructive behaviors. That said many blacks have made it into the middle class, so there is hope.


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## Woodznutz (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Blacks want segregated schools


'All black' schools are the worst, and the best.


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## Woodznutz (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> You don't seem to understand the history of this country or sociology and the results of the political and economic factors that have made our society what it is


True. Some people are just dealt a bad hand, and never recover. I grew up severely disadvantaged, but because I was a good looking, fairly well spoken white guy doors opened for me that are closed to blacks.


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## Blues Man (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> I live in a area  where white men have to be in rooms working shit jobs with lazy blacks who got hired  for AA, and tell whites to stop working hard so they can get over time .. race does matter we obviously can’t live together



We can't live together because you think race matters


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## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> That can be said for other races as well. However, blacks have a deeper level of frustration than others that often leads to destructive behaviors. That said many blacks have made it into the middle class, so there is hope.


Well they create there own frustration, they vote for oppression so I can’t feel bad for them.. whites the same


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## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> 'All black' schools are the worst, and the best.


Huh


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## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> We can't live together because you think race matters


My city says it does, AA, hate crimes only leveled at one race. I just want freedom


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## 2aguy (Mar 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides and domestic violence because people who shouldn't have guns can get them.
> 
> 
> 
> Chicago didn't have a huge murder rate until after the McDonald Decision...  that's when it shot up.




The vast majority are suicides...so guns do not count, since South Korea, Japan and China have massively higher rates of suicide than we do...and extreme gun control..

You keep saying domestic violence when you know that is a lie.....

Chicago had massive murder rates before Mcdonald...now normal people can at least protect themselves....


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## Woodznutz (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Well they create there own frustration, they vote for oppression so I can’t feel bad for them.. whites the same


True that the black subculture doesn't seem to be ready for success. Perhaps in a few more decades.


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## Woodznutz (Mar 15, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Huh


Underachieving black schools are easy to find. Successful black schools are out there but are harder to find.





__





						‘Black to School: Here’s a List of Several Reputable African-Centered Schools in the U.S. |
					





					www.melanoidnation.org


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## Abatis (Mar 15, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I'm not the one who advocates for an industry that kills 42,000 Americans every year... that would be you.



So in reply to me criticizing you for engaging in straw-man diversions, you give me yet another straw-man diversion.



JoeB131 said:


> Then why not let them?  Let a city like Chicago have a comprehensive gun ban, and when it doesn't work, you can say, "I told you so!"



Why let them; why should they be given permission to enact and enforce laws in direct conflict with the Constitution of the USA? 

Why shouldn't they be forced to contain their government operations within the rules established to control and limit government operations?



JoeB131 said:


> I'm sure it doesn't... it probably terrifies you that the 80% of us who aren't gun nuts might finally get fed up with your nonsense and try what they are doing.



I do not fear the power-tripping fantasies of impotent US leftists who are enamored with the the power European statist authoritarians wield against their subjects.



JoeB131 said:


> Frankly, most gun owners aren't the problem here.  It's the nutters like you and 2TinyGuy who seem to think that Adam Lanza should have a military grade assault rifle because the Founding Slave Owners couldn't carefully craft a militia amendment coherently.



Have you created a keystroke shortcut that pastes that particular example of your stupidity into your posts?



JoeB131 said:


> I'd have no problem with guns that are licensed, properly background checked, screened, insured and properly stored.  You know- Well-regulated.



You have described about 75 million gun owners.



JoeB131 said:


> "BUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!!!"



The founders / framers did not give us the right to keep and bear arms.  The framers crafted a contact through which the people granted government specifically enumerated powers and delegated those limited powers to be directed to perform certain specific duties and no others. 

The most foundational principle of the contact is that of conferred powers and retained rights; everything not conferred by the people to the care and control of government is retained by the people and the government can not assume any interest in those affairs if no specific power was granted to allow government to act.

he government doesn't allow us to exercise rights, "We the People" allow government to exist and to do only what we have told it to do.

.


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## IamZ (Mar 15, 2022)

Woodznutz said:


> Underachieving black schools are easy to find. Successful black schools are out there but are harder to find.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Democrats telling me a black school is good is like buying ice from the devil


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## Cecilie1200 (Mar 15, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You troll....
> 
> Gang members know the rival gang members they shoot, the drug dealer stealing the cash and drugs of another dealer also knows that dealer....you moron.



If my drug-dealing neighbors upstairs decide to kill me because I keep calling the cops on them . . . well, they've killed someone they know.  But it's not like we're family or friends or anything.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> The most polite places are gun carrying places, less crime, it’s our culture. Assimilate



Maybe be we are tired of that culture.   Most of us don't own guns, and we are getting pretty sick of watching children being wheeled out of schools in body bags.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 16, 2022)

hadit said:


> Except that the Constitution applies to Chicago too. Chicago simply can't enact such a ban unless we amend the Constitution to allow them to do so.



The constitution calls for well-regulated militias.  I'm all for well-regulated militias, I was a member of one for years.  Chicago should be able to "well-regulated" it's guns if it wants to. 



hadit said:


> Actually, you WOULD have a massive problem with "guns that are licensed, properly background checked, screened, insured and properly stored", because they'd still be privately owned, and you can't handle that. You've already stated that you would like to outlaw private ownership of guns, so don't try to give us that, unless you're also going to state that you're modifying your position.



What I'd like and what I am willing to live with are two different things. 

If Joe were dictator, the ATF would be going door to door confiscating every last gun.  But sensibly, I know that's not practical.  We need to phase guns out slowly.  Make it harder to get new ones out there, hold the gun makers responsible for their irresponsible marketing, making having a gun such a pain that people eventually give them up.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 16, 2022)

Abatis said:


> Why let them; why should they be given permission to enact and enforce laws in direct conflict with the Constitution of the USA?
> 
> Why shouldn't they be forced to contain their government operations within the rules established to control and limit government operations?



The constitution isn't a suicide pact.  



Abatis said:


> I do not fear the power-tripping fantasies of impotent US leftists who are enamored with the the power European statist authoritarians wield against their subjects.



Yes, how dare we want low crime, low poverty, universal health care? That's just crazy talk man.   Don't we realize that "freedom" is hoping that you don't get shot by a crazy person with a gun before you die from a treatable disease that bankrupts your family?  

Whenever a right winger talks about 'Freedom", it's the ability of those with money and privilege to abuse those who don't have it.  




Abatis said:


> You have described about 75 million gun owners.



Adam Lanza. Joker Holmes. Nicholas Cruz. etc. etc.   All guys who were batshit crazy and still able to get guns.


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> My city says it does, AA, hate crimes only leveled at one race. I just want freedom


Your city

Not you though right


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Maybe be we are tired of that culture.   Most of us don't own guns, and we are getting pretty sick of watching children being wheeled out of schools in body bags.


Well stop immigration that oppresses  Americans. Let’s help Americans that have to work with 12 ppl that can’t speak English 8 hours a day


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Your city
> 
> Not you though right


Yes me


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Yes me


Really you think race doesn't matter?

Could have fooled me


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Really you think race doesn't matter?
> 
> Could have fooled me


If course it matters, my city is have a black only black advancement job fair  where they are going to fill open positions at city hall with just black ppl. Lol 
Racism is alive and well


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> If course it matters, my city is have a black only black advancement job fair  where they are going to fill open positions at city hall with just black ppl. Lol
> Racism is alive and well


And you're right there adding to it


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> And you're right there adding to it


Well yea I want to protect my white children lol hello


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## hadit (Mar 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The constitution calls for well-regulated militias.  I'm all for well-regulated militias, I was a member of one for years.  Chicago should be able to "well-regulated" it's guns if it wants to.


The Constitution says a "well-regulated militia" is one reason for the Amendment, but the right is there regardless. But you knew that because the Supreme Court told you. Naturally, your knowledge of the law is superior to theirs.


JoeB131 said:


> What I'd like and what I am willing to live with are two different things.
> 
> If Joe were dictator, the ATF would be going door to door confiscating every last gun.  But sensibly, I know that's not practical.  We need to phase guns out slowly.  Make it harder to get new ones out there, hold the gun makers responsible for their irresponsible marketing, making having a gun such a pain that people eventually give them up.


"Irresponsible marketing"? Where are you seeing that? Are you reading 50-year-old copies of the Sears catalog? Going to the S&W website and pretending that kids are perusing it?


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Well yea I want to protect my white children lol hello


Thanks for being part of the problem


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Thanks for being part of the problem


Protecting my children is a problem ohhh ok lol


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Protecting my children is a problem ohhh ok lol


Protecting them from what?

Your kids have a far better chance than a Black kid growing up in the hood.


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Protecting them from what?
> 
> Your kids have a far better chance than a Black kid growing up in the hood.


White kids in the hood are doing better then black kids in the hood? Link?  So if I come to you neighborhood abs say whites only you ok with that?


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> White kids in the hood are doing better then black kids in the hood? Link?  So if I come to you neighborhood abs say whites only you ok with that?


Yeah lots of White kids in the hood.  But yes the few that are there have a better shot simply because they are white


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Yeah lots of White kids in the hood.


How are they doing well? They are doing the same as black kids in the hood based on bad decisions


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> How are they doing well? They are doing the same as black kids in the hood based on bad decisions


the few that are there have a better shot simply because they are white


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> the few that are there have a better shot simply because they are white


How ? Do you know a business hiring white only in urban areas?


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> How ? Do you know a business hiring white only in urban areas?


Don't be obtuse.

The White kids aren't hassled as much by the cops, they have less of a chance of being charged with a crime and their skin color opens doors that won't open to Black kids this is the reality of the country and that you deny it is just plain ignorance on your part


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Don't be obtuse.
> 
> The White kids aren't hassled as much by the cops, they have less of a chance of being charged with a crime and their skin color opens doors that won't open to Black kids this is the reality of the country and that you deny it is just plain ignorance on your part


More whites are killed by cops, even though blacks come in contact more with police, 41% of those arrested with a deadly weapon are black.. even though whites are killed more.. get your facts right Jack


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## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> More whites are killed by cops, even though blacks come in contact more with police, 41% of those arrested with a deadly weapon are black.. even though whites are killed more.. get your facts right Jack


Try using percentages instead of absolute numbers.

When com[paring populations of varying size it is the only way to be accurate


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Try using percentages instead of absolute numbers.
> 
> When com[paring populations of varying size it is the only way to be accurate


Call it what you want I have you facts.. now what excuse do have for racism?


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Call it what you want I have you facts.. now what excuse do have for racism?


The RATE at which Blacks and Whites are shot by cops is the accurate measure.

Blacks are 13% of the population yet comprise 27% of police shootings.

Fatal police shootings occur in number per million break down by race

Blacks  38 per million
Hispanic 28 per million

Whites 15 per million

So yes a Black kid is more that twice as likely to be killed by police than a White kid


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## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> The RATE at which Blacks and Whites are shot by cops is the accurate measure.
> 
> Blacks are 13% of the population yet comprise 27% of police shootings.
> 
> ...


And I said blacks COME IN CONTACT WITH COPS MORE THEN WHITES AND ARE KILLED LESS THEY MAKE UP 41% OF PPL ARRESTED WITH A DANGEROUS WEAPON AND ARE KILLED LESS THEN WHITES, they make up 13% of the population. Lol yes Whites are disproportionately killed more than blacks when you consider interactions.


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> And I said blacks COME IN CONTACT WITH COPS MORE THEN WHITES AND ARE KILLED LESS THEY MAKE UP 41% OF PPL ARRESTED WITH A DANGEROUS WEAPON AND ARE KILLED LESS THEN WHITES, they make up 13% of the population. Lol yes Whites are disproportionately killed more than blacks when you consider interactions.


cops actually KILL Blacks at a rate that is twice the rate of Whites.


----------



## Woodznutz (Mar 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The constitution calls for well-regulated militias.  I'm all for well-regulated militias, I was a member of one for years.  Chicago should be able to "well-regulated" it's guns if it wants to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When that America is gone, everything else will soon be gone.


----------



## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> cops actually KILL Blacks at a rate that is twice the rate of Whites.


Yes they come in contact with cops at a higher rate then whites. Lol


----------



## Blues Man (Mar 16, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Yes they come in contact with cops at a higher rate then whites. Lol


Because they are targeted by cops more than Whites

Another fact


----------



## IamZ (Mar 16, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Because they are targeted by cops more than Whites
> 
> Another fact


Evidence?


----------



## 2aguy (Mar 16, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Maybe be we are tired of that culture.   Most of us don't own guns, and we are getting pretty sick of watching children being wheeled out of schools in body bags.




Then you need to stop voting for the democrat party, the racist party that keeps releasing the violent criminals putting those children in body bags......


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 17, 2022)

IamZ said:


> Well stop immigration that oppresses Americans. Let’s help Americans that have to work with 12 ppl that can’t speak English 8 hours a day



If you are such a white trash loser that you are competing with people with no connections, no money and a limited grasp on the English Language, then that's kind of your failure.


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 17, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Then you need to stop voting for the democrat party, the racist party that keeps releasing the violent criminals putting those children in body bags......



That's the gun industry... and the National Rampage Association.

The ones who think that Adam Lanza and Joker Holmes really need military grade weaponry.


----------

