# China flexes military muscle



## zzzz (Jul 28, 2011)

Good story about China and its military buildup.


> As the Pentagon plans for U.S. forces to exit Iraq and Afghanistan, it is keeping one eye trained on the rising threat in the East. For two decades China has been adding large numbers of warships, submarines, fighter jets and  more significantly  developing offensive missiles capable of knocking out U.S. stealth aircraft and the biggest U.S. naval ships including aircraft carriers.
> 
> At the same time, China has announced that its territorial waters extend hundreds of miles beyond its shores, well into what its neighbors and the United States consider international waters. It has installed more than 1,000 ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan, a democratic island nation and U.S. ally. Vietnam, the Philippines and Japan all have complained to the United States about confrontations on the high seas with China.



This is forcing the US to spend billions of dollars to develop another bomber, the long range strike bomber!



> Since 1989, China's defense spending has increased by nearly 13% annually, according to the Department of Defense 2010 Annual Report to Congress. In March it announced its annual budget would be $78.6 million.
> 
> U.S. defense spending dwarfs that figure. The fiscal 2012 Pentagon budget request is $676 billion. However, the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank focusing on the military, has said the U.S. military is underfunded and cannot counter China's threat to U.S. allies in East Asia with declining defense spending, as some in Congress are seeking as part of a deal to raise the ceiling on the national debt.
> 
> *Although the USA spends more, it suggests China's real defense spending approaches $300 billion.* And all of that spending is concentrated in one region, East Asia, while the U.S. spending is spread out over many regions of the world.



The US military is stretched thin because we are a global military force and are involved militarily through treaties and commitments all over the world. The Chinese military is concentrated in one area. The threat is what is important here. If the Chinese are perceived as more powerful in the region then it will be they not us who influence events in the region. Even Japan, a long time foe of the Chinese, might have to start allying with the Chinese instead of the USA.

Jconline - China's military flexes its muscle


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## St.Blues (Jul 28, 2011)

Two words for China........... *FUCK YOU!*

Blues


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## Ringel05 (Jul 29, 2011)

And the very real global game of chess continues.


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## The_GiantNoodle (Jul 29, 2011)

Make no mistake. There WILL be a war with China in the next 50 years.


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## Ringel05 (Jul 30, 2011)

When I was a teen I remember reading a book, can't for the life of me remember now which book it was but some unknown reason one phrase stuck out and it's the only thing I remember from the book.

The Eagle will defeat the Bear but the Dragon will overcome them all.  Weird, eh?


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## BoycottTheday (Jul 31, 2011)

China is hiding a huge internal problem, the next war they fight might just be with themselves.


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## Baruch Menachem (Jul 31, 2011)

China's military is almost entirely used for internal control.  The leadership there really is riding a tiger of ever increased consumer expectation.    The fact they have a huge imbalance of young men to young women is just one worry.

They are frightened of the citizenry for very good reason.   All they can think to do short term is keep the army large, under ferocious discipline, and moving all the time from province to province to make sure the army doesn't side with the people in case of disturbance.

They have the experience of what happened in Romania, Albania, Russia, Hungary and Germany when they lost control.    Life for those in power in China must be a constant nightmare.


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## burntup2 (Jul 31, 2011)

china is a very scary country. i seen on tv that we are selling water to china. they are dumping it on the ground to recharge their aquifers. a lot of rich people or people with resources like the bush's have bought land with water under it, mostly in 3rd world countries, yes our precious great bush family are not letting those people have water. they are saving it due to they believe water will be the next oil. china is not just building an army they are preserving their country. plus they are taking care of the business of their country. if we not careful we may be living under their control


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## Trajan (Jul 31, 2011)

Ringel05 said:


> When I was a teen I remember reading a book, can't for the life of me remember now which book it was but some unknown reason one phrase stuck out and it's the only thing I remember from the book.
> 
> The Eagle will defeat the Bear but the Dragon will overcome them all.  Weird, eh?



Nostradamus.


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## zzzz (Jul 31, 2011)

Historically when a country has internal problems they will engineer a crisis with another country leading to a conflict that will instill national pride. What is the one thing that the Chinese want? Taiwan. They have been building up for a take over of that island for decades. If it wasn't for the shadow of the USA they would have already taken it. Now that they have unleashed their enormous industrial capacity they are getting the capacity to force the US to stay out of the southeast Asia. Its going to be an interesting 20 years in that region.


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## Baruch Menachem (Jul 31, 2011)

In terms of usable force, Taiwan outnumbers them.

They have no real navy, they have no means to get troops over there.   Taiwan has a better equipped air force that is also better trained.

They try it on, that will only hasten the revolution they fear.

The last thing they want is the kind of ass kicking the Finns gave Stalin back in 1940.


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## rightwinger (Jul 31, 2011)

Chinas military has one primary mission. keeping 1.5 billion Chinese under control

They are not in our league


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## zzzz (Jul 31, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> In terms of usable force, Taiwan outnumbers them.
> 
> They have no real navy, they have no means to get troops over there.   Taiwan has a better equipped air force that is also better trained.
> 
> ...



They are training in these new amphibious assault ships, landings against a contested shoreline and believe they now have the capability to make a breakout of the beach head. 





http://defensetech.org/2011/04/01/china-boosts-it-amphibious-options/

They just launched this new ship this month. The Chinese are designing and building other amphibious capable vessels. although at present they are believed only capable of landing a little over a division of troops in 10 years that figure may be 10 times that, and with modern stuff too.


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## Ringel05 (Aug 1, 2011)

Trajan said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > When I was a teen I remember reading a book, can't for the life of me remember now which book it was but some unknown reason one phrase stuck out and it's the only thing I remember from the book.
> ...



But I've never read Nostradamus so if it comes from him then it must have been quoted in the book I was reading.


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## waltky (Sep 11, 2012)

Uncle Ferd purt sure dey gettin' ready to send one o' dem EMP bombs over here...

*China held secret missile tests: report*
_Fri, Sep 07, 2012 - NUCLEAR BUILDUP:The tests represent a new level of capability for Chinas nuclear forces and may have dire implications for Taiwan, a military specialist on China said_


> US intelligence agencies have leaked reports of secret new Chinese missile tests that could have important implications for Taiwan.  The reports have been published by national security journalist Bill Gertz on the Washington Free Beacon Web site.  Gertz said US intelligence agencies had monitored a fourth flight test last week of the Dong Feng-31A (DF-31A) intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).  It was fired from Chinas Wuzhai Space and Missile Test Center in Shanxi Province to an impact range in western China.  Thursdays DF-31A test came ten days after the flight test at Wuzhai of a silo-based CSS-4 Mod 2 long-range missile, and several weeks after flight tests of a new road-mobile DF-41 ICBM, on July 24, and a submarine-launched JL-2 missile on August 16, Gertz wrote.  Chinas secretive military made no mention of any of the tests, he said.
> 
> According to Gertz, US intelligence officials believe the DF-41 will eventually be outfitted with between three and 10 warheads.  China is currently in the middle of a major strategic nuclear forces buildup that includes four new ICBMs  the DF-41, JL-2 [Julang-2], DF-31A, and another road-mobile missile called the DF-31, Gertz wrote.  Richard Fisher, a specialist on Chinas military with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, told the Taipei Times that the testing represents a new level of capability for Chinas nuclear forces.  It may mark the beginning of a new era in which China fields multiple ICBM types armed with multiple warheads, Fisher said.  Uncertainties concerning Chinas nuclear missile developments are of direct importance to Taiwan, he said.  Any potential for China to undermine regional or Taiwanese confidence in the extended American nuclear deterrent has profound and potentially dire implications, he said.  For the PLA [Peoples Liberation Army], nuclear checkmate of US forces would be a key part of any campaign against Taiwan, he said.
> 
> ...


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## Billo_Really (Sep 11, 2012)

The_GiantNoodle said:


> Make no mistake. There WILL be a war with China in the next 50 years.


No more wars!  I'm sick of fuckin' wars.

Did anyone consider China's military build up a reaction to us going around the world making up reasons to attack sovereign nations?


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## MHunterB (Sep 12, 2012)

NO.  The expansion of Chinese hegemony has been ongoing since '49 or so....  Usually nations do what nations do based on their own reasons, not in response to something else.  Maoism includes a commitment to expand based on exporting the revolution.


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## Franticfrank (Sep 14, 2012)

I sincerely hope there will be no war. Besides, the two sides really have so much to lose considering they are reliant on each other as trading partners. Statistics do show that 51% of Americans view the growing Chinese military as a threat. It could really get more unstable but hopefully mutual respect and common sense will prevail.


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## mamooth (Sep 17, 2012)

China, Japan, Taiwan and the East China Sea | Flashpoints

Right now, China and Japan are doing another round of saber-rattling over the Senkaku Islands, some uninhabited rocks in the East China Sea that give the owner geographical claim to some nice oil fields. Japan has formally held them for the last hundred years, but China's current policy is more or less that any territory which China has held in the past thousand years has to be returned to China. 

It's worse than usual this time, because nationalists in both nations are using it as a political issue. In China, where the economy is not good, the government is aiding the rabble-rousers, as they look for issues to deflect from domestic bad news. And the Chinese military is only nominally under civilian government control, being more of an independent actor. The military just might overthrow the government if they consider it to be not acting in Chinese interest.

The US is obligated by treaty to defend Japan. And Japan is running out of room to back down, given that the Senkaku Islands are as much a part of Japan as Okinawa, which Chinese nationalists also claim. US policy under all administrations has been to delicately try to contain Chinese expansion, which is getting more difficult, as China seems so intent on pissing off pretty much every nation around it.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 18, 2012)

The Chinese are preparing for combat with Japan.

http://freebeacon.com/chinese-general-prepare-for-combat/

We have a treaty with Japan.  Will obama honor that treaty or throw Japan under the bus like he's throwing Israel under the bus?


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## freedombecki (Sep 18, 2012)

Obama will dither until China smashes our ally.

I'm sorry the Nation Land of the Rising Sun is being considered for an unpleasant attack at the hands of the Sino military.

It could be China has a message for Louis Panetta's visit there this week.

This appeared September 16:



> TOKYO (Reuters) - Defense Secretary Leon  Panetta will look for ways to deepen U.S. military relations with China  during a visit to Asia this week, even as he works to bolster U.S.  alliances in the region as part of a strategic shift that Beijing views  with concern.Panetta,  who arrived in Tokyo on Sunday on his third trip to Asia since becoming  defense secretary, will discuss the realignment of U.S. military basing  in Japan and expanding ballistic missile defense cooperation before  heading to Beijing to try to deepen and broaden military-to-military  ties.
> He wraps up his visit with defense cooperation talks in New Zealand.
> Senior  U.S. and Chinese defense officials have made an effort to push their  military relationship forward since it resumed a year and a half ago  after a bitter break over U.S. arms sales to self-ruled Taiwan, which  Beijing views as a breakaway province. Panetta seeks closer Sino-US ties as China military expands



What is going on?


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## Unkotare (Sep 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The Chinese are preparing for combat with Japan.





They will do no such thing. The CCP wants two things:

1) For their citizens to calm down and go back to being passive tools of the state.

2) To tamp down the crisis while saving face.


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## Unkotare (Sep 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> did anyone consider china's military build up a reaction to us going around the world making up reasons to attack sovereign nations?





no.


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## Munin (Sep 25, 2012)

BoycottTheday said:


> China is hiding a huge internal problem, the next war they fight might just be with themselves.



No, an outside war is the perfect way to silence inside struggles. It is even a reason to go to war

Why? Because it will focus the attention of the people from internal problems to external problems that are even bigger. 


You could compare the behavior of a population of a country to how the human body reacts having a little bit of pain in a finger and then breaking your leg. You created a bigger problem that your brain"/the population" will pay attention to first

The 9/11 attacks and the wars that followed had a similar effect in the US




Also I just red an article that proves that assumption wrong:



> *"China Needs Its Army to Stamp Out Domestic Unrest."*
> *No.* That's the job of the People's Armed Police. While the world watched in horror as armored personnel carriers and camouflaged soldiers suppressed riots in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa in 2008 and Uighur-dominated Urumqi in 2009, many assumed it was the Chinese army marching in the streets behind Plexiglas shields. But they were mistaken. A careful look at their insignia revealed that the units were part of the People's Armed Police, not the PLA.
> 
> The People's Armed Police is a paramilitary force with a wide range of responsibilities for public security. After June 1989, when the PLA was called upon to mobilize its tanks and clear protesters from Beijing's Tiananmen Square, the military sought guarantees from the Chinese leadership that it would no longer be tasked with suppressing domestic "incidents" that it was neither trained nor equipped to handle. The People's Armed Police was then given this specific job as well as significant increases in resources, personnel, and specialized training.
> ...


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/22/think_again_chinas_military?page=0,4






The best way for us Westerners to react is to strengthen Chinas potential enemies and weaken its allies militarely: strengthen Japan, Australia, the philipines, Taiwan, South Korea, India and Weaken Pakistan, North Korea.


So stopping the money and weapons going to Pakistan is a good thing, not only for the reason that the Pakistani held Osama Bin Laden in their country with their knowledge of him being there. Pakistan clearly showed that it is not our ally


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## Dajjal (Sep 26, 2012)

I saw on the news that China only has one aircraft carrier, and it has no planes. So they are no match for the west.


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## Munin (Sep 26, 2012)

Dajjal said:


> I saw on the news that China only has one aircraft carrier, and it has no planes. So they are no match for the west.



There was a time that the US had no army at all, not that long ago actually (just before WWII, the US was not a major military power. France and the British empire were the biggest military powers in the world at that time)


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## Unkotare (Sep 26, 2012)

It is ridiculously wrong to say that the US "had no army at all" prior to WWII.


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## beagle9 (Sep 28, 2012)

Ringel05 said:


> And the very real global game of chess continues.


Until the very end..


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## beagle9 (Sep 28, 2012)

Baruch Menachem said:


> In terms of usable force, Taiwan outnumbers them.
> 
> They have no real navy, they have no means to get troops over there.   Taiwan has a better equipped air force that is also better trained.
> 
> ...


The technology has greatly changed, and that is what will be implemented in all wars going foward. Then it will be the best technology advanced nation to the finish line, and not by the numbers anylonger. We have even re-thought all of our tactics and strategies as now based upon the latest and greatest technology, where as we called the Iraq Desert Storm war (remember), the new Nintendo war, so do we think that other nations are that far behind us in technology also ?

The Chineese are smart, and us being mingled in with them for so many years now, hasn't helped us one bit when it came to their build up, and this because of our helping them become a super power within that region. Now due to our un-balanced open trade with them for so many years now, we may have created a genie that won't be so easy to keep contained within the bottle. We may even regret once again, for traning them and/or educating them to someday use that education on us in a bad way, just as it was used on 9-11 against us by those arab anti-American trained in America to fly, "enemy pilots".


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## Munin (Sep 29, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> It is ridiculously wrong to say that the US "had no army at all" prior to WWII.



The didn't have no army, but compared to the Western powers like Germany, France & the Brits it was close to no army. The US army buildup began during WWII


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## Unkotare (Sep 29, 2012)

Munin said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > It is ridiculously wrong to say that the US "had no army at all" prior to WWII.
> ...



You said:



Munin said:


> There was a time that the US had no army at all, not that long ago actually (just before WWII)




And your qualified remarks above are still ridiculously wrong. For goodness sakes, study some US History.


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## waltky (Oct 8, 2012)

China makin' neighbors nervous...

*Wary of China, Southeast Asia beefs up its defense*
_Tue, Oct 09, 2012 - Indonesia is buying submarines from South Korea and coastal radar systems from China and the US. Vietnam is getting submarines and combat jets from Russia, while Singapore  the worlds fifth-largest weapons importer  is adding to its sophisticated arsenal._


> Wary of China and flush with economic success, Southeast Asia is ramping up spending on military hardware.  Territorial disputes in the South China Sea, fueled by the promise of rich oil and gas deposits, have prompted Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines and Brunei to try to offset Chinas growing naval power.  Even for those away from that fray, like Indonesia, Thailand and Singapore, maritime security has been a major focus.
> 
> As Southeast Asias economies boomed, defense spending grew 42 percent in real terms from 2002 to last year, data from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) shows.  High on the list are warships, patrol boats, radar systems and combat planes, along with submarines and anti-ship missiles, which are particularly effective in denying access to sea lanes.  Submarines are a big thing, executive director for Asia at the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) Tim Huxley said. They can do immense damage without being seen, without being anticipated, and they can do that anywhere in the region.
> 
> ...


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## waltky (Oct 16, 2012)

Asians inchin' their way to dat 200 million man army in Revelation...

*Asian Powers Increase Military Spending*
_ October 15, 2012 - A new study shows that over the past decade, five Asian powers have increased military spending to levels among the highest in the world, with China leading the way._


> The study released Monday by the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies says China has quadrupled its defense budget since 2000.  It also says India, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan have dramatically increased their military spending.  That trend is in contrast with the United States and European Union, whose defense budgets have been declining in recent years.
> 
> Defense spending in the five analyzed Asian powers still trails that of the United States, but the CSIS study says it will surpass Europe's military expenditures this year.  The CSIS study says the five Asian governments spent about $224 billion in 2011, which is almost twice what they collectively spent in 2000.  China's estimated defense spending has grown from about $22.5 billion to almost $90 billion in the past decade.  But the authors say that some estimates put Chinese spending at a much higher level.
> 
> ...


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