# The hype and misunderstanding of AI



## Ringel05 (Dec 5, 2019)

Artificial Intelligence often congers up images of Skynet and the Terminator but what is it really based on today's applications.

AI is a buzzword primarily for marketers and the press, AI doesn't even exist yet.  What we have is ML, Machine Learning or what some have labeled as "Augmented Intelligence", learning that requires a lot of "tweaking" from human sources to allow the machine to "learn".  This allows the machine to learn to accomplish specific tasks without a programmer having to write tons of code. 
The Sci-Fi AI is actually referred to as General Intelligence and will be a looooooong time in the future _*if*_ we ever are able to build it.  To put it in perspective;




> Teaching computers to learn for themselves is a brilliant shortcut. And like all shortcuts, it involves cutting corners. There’s intelligence in AI systems, if you want to call it that. But it’s not organic intelligence, and it doesn’t play by the same rules humans do. You may as well ask: how clever is a book? What expertise is encoded in a frying pan?


So when you hear AI being touted by marketers and the media realize that it's really ML not AI in the true sense. 
The state of AI in 2019

True AI doesn't exist yet...it's augmented intelligence


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## Bo Didleysquat (Dec 5, 2019)

The american public lives under constant corporate state surveillance.  Fweedumb.


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## Bleipriester (Dec 5, 2019)

"AI" is a set of scripts. I doesn´t decide to take over the world unless it is programmed to do so.


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## BULLDOG (Dec 5, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


> Artificial Intelligence often congers up images of Skynet and the Terminator but what is it really based on today's applications.
> 
> AI is a buzzword primarily for marketers and the press, AI doesn't even exist yet.  What we have is ML, Machine Learning or what some have labeled as "Augmented Intelligence", learning that requires a lot of "tweaking" from human sources to allow the machine to "learn".  This allows the machine to learn to accomplish specific tasks without a programmer having to write tons of code.
> The Sci-Fi AI is actually referred to as General Intelligence and will be a looooooong time in the future _*if*_ we ever are able to build it.  To put it in perspective;
> ...



I agree, and I tried to make that same point this morning in a discussion with my toaster, but since it is just a toaster, and not capable of more complex thought, it just took my remarks as an insult and ran out of the room crying.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 5, 2019)

Bo Didleysquat said:


> The american public lives under constant corporate state surveillance.  Fweedumb.


I'm sending you a case of tinfoil for Christmas.


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## petro (Dec 5, 2019)

The term has become tiresome. 
It takes intelligence to create intelligence and to this point humans haven't shown they are intelligent. 
But the rubes buy it hook line and sinker.

Now if you said AI was made from plants and organic, you could sell a lot of devices.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

petro said:


> The term has become tiresome.
> It takes intelligence to create intelligence and to this point humans haven't shown they are intelligent.
> But the rubes buy it hook line and sinker.
> 
> Now if you said AI was made from plants and organic, you could sell a lot of devices.


I'm surprised our resident conspiracy wackos aren't all over this telling us we're just tools of the State, sheeple to believe there is no AI.........


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## petro (Dec 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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If the programmers are the same folks who programmed my vehicle, AI is currently under a recall.
I would define true AI as having consciousness. We can't even define that ourselves.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

I sincerely doubt the term is being used to "foil us." It's just a colloquialism at this point, and I'm not sure there's a single person I've met that's under the impression that AGI exists. I've never met one or heard testimony on the airwaves that it does...so this "misleading" we're talking about here seems to be missing the mark. 

Should the only person that thinks AGI exists come forward, the OP (not you ringel, just what you wrote) would have some sort of merit. If nobody is under that impression, then you're merely quibbling over the misuse of terms. Oh well?

Anyhoo, anyone who wants to take a deep dive into AI, or sorry AGI don't hurt me, Lex Fridman's channel on youtube is a great, great resource. He's got interviews, at length, with many of the leading researchers, world-wide, from the world of AGI. Also other interviews ABOUT AGI, and its implications, etc


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

petro said:


> The term has become tiresome.
> It takes intelligence to create intelligence and to this point humans haven't shown they are intelligent.
> But the rubes buy it hook line and sinker.
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> Now if you said AI was made from plants and organic, you could sell a lot of devices.


Humans are clearly intelligent.

If you weren't intelligent, you'd be a lousy judge of intelligence.


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## Confounding (Dec 6, 2019)

Once we have true AI technology will progress faster than the mind can comprehend. Imagine a computer that's capable of having and testing original thoughts. It could do 20,000 years of human intellectual work over the weekend. The ramifications are incalculable.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

Confounding said:


> Once we have true AI technology will progress faster than the mind can comprehend. Imagine a computer that's capable of having and testing original thoughts. It could do 20,000 years of human intellectual work over the weekend. The ramifications are incalculable.


There's some pretty evocative advancements already being made. All we can do is stay tuned! If the skynet sort of thing comes to fruition, I'm not sure there's anything we could do about it - but there's many great minds working on that very problem. We shall see!~


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## Votto (Dec 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


> Artificial Intelligence often congers up images of Skynet and the Terminator but what is it really based on today's applications.
> 
> AI is a buzzword primarily for marketers and the press, AI doesn't even exist yet.  What we have is ML, Machine Learning or what some have labeled as "Augmented Intelligence", learning that requires a lot of "tweaking" from human sources to allow the machine to "learn".  This allows the machine to learn to accomplish specific tasks without a programmer having to write tons of code.
> The Sci-Fi AI is actually referred to as General Intelligence and will be a looooooong time in the future _*if*_ we ever are able to build it.  To put it in perspective;
> ...


So the terminator has not been created yet but they are working on it?

There, that makes me feel much better, thanks.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


> I sincerely doubt the term is being used to "foil us." It's just a colloquialism at this point, and I'm not sure there's a single person I've met that's under the impression that AGI exists. I've never met one or heard testimony on the airwaves that it does...so this "misleading" we're talking about here seems to be missing the mark.
> 
> Should the only person that thinks AGI exists come forward, the OP (not you ringel, just what you wrote) would have some sort of merit. If nobody is under that impression, then you're merely quibbling over the misuse of terms. Oh well?
> 
> Anyhoo, anyone who wants to take a deep dive into AI, or sorry AGI don't hurt me, Lex Fridman's channel on youtube is a great, great resource. He's got interviews, at length, with many of the leading researchers, world-wide, from the world of AGI. Also other interviews ABOUT AGI, and its implications, etc


I was relaying that the usage had become generic as was stated in the linked articles and showing the true difference as also stated in the articles.
I have run into a very few who think that the AI will turn into the sentient Sci-Fi monsters as depicted in movies and that it will happen sooner than later.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

Votto said:


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AI can only be as good or bad as we make it.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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You're out of the loop, then. Perhaps you should listen to the folks at MIT that are literally working on developing AGI. 

The "sky net" sort of thing is an actual concern, not a crack-pot one.


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## Votto (Dec 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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Your comfort knows no boundaries does it.

Yea, I'm sure people will just naturally do the right thing.

Thanks for that.


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## BULLDOG (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


> I sincerely doubt the term is being used to "foil us." It's just a colloquialism at this point, and I'm not sure there's a single person I've met that's under the impression that AGI exists. I've never met one or heard testimony on the airwaves that it does...so this "misleading" we're talking about here seems to be missing the mark.
> 
> Should the only person that thinks AGI exists come forward, the OP (not you ringel, just what you wrote) would have some sort of merit. If nobody is under that impression, then you're merely quibbling over the misuse of terms. Oh well?
> 
> Anyhoo, anyone who wants to take a deep dive into AI, or sorry AGI don't hurt me, Lex Fridman's channel on youtube is a great, great resource. He's got interviews, at length, with many of the leading researchers, world-wide, from the world of AGI. Also other interviews ABOUT AGI, and its implications, etc



You could be right, but what if you're not? Do you want to wake up some day when this is the number one song on the radio?


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

BULLDOG said:


> G.T. said:
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I wouldn't underestimate AGI at all. I'm actually following the conversation among the physicists pretty closely, and so-far, none of them have any real fail-safe to propose. That, too is being worked on though...and humans are pretty fuckin awesome. Some say they're not while they walk around on a wireless device that's able to reach any other human on the planet.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

Votto said:


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That's what you get out of what I'm saying?  Of course you conspiracy nutjobs are always right even when you aren't and that's 99% of the time.......


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Uuuummmm.....  ML and AI are two completely different things.......  Of course you're talking about neither with a wireless device, that's just standard tech.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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I wasnt referring to ML or AI or calling phones that...I was making a point about human intelligence. You mighta misread that, or read intent into it.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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No I don't think I'm out of the loop and credentials don't always impress me considering how familiar I am with those that have them.  Yes I'm fully aware that there are those who think we will have AI with in the next 10 years but not AGI unless they've made huge strides in bio-computers beyond a simple calculator (they haven't) then all we're dealing with is moral and ethical questions derived from what ifs.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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No I was just reading what you posted and your reference wasn't that clear.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

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I think it was clear. 

The AGI reference and the cell phone reference were completely independent clauses in independent sentences representing completely different subjects. 

The cell phone reference was about how awesome human ingenuity is.

The AGI reference was regarding the "Terminator/Sky Net" discussion. 

If you read the paragraph, I think it's clear enough not to quibble.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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Be you impressed or not, it's a heavily weighted question in the industry.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Okay.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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That I already knew hence my reference to moral and ethical "what ifs".


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

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You literally denied it and now you're saying you already knew it...you feelin well>? 

*"I have run into a very few who think that the AI will turn into the sentient Sci-Fi monsters as depicted in movies" *

That's LITERALLY the hot topic within the very industry we're discussing, among the literal scholars working on it.


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## White 6 (Dec 6, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


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Sounds like you have a decent bead on it.  On You Tube, Answers With Dave did an interesting piece on the subject if you haven't already seen it, but I suspect you have.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

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Sentient to me means conscience even Koch says that will never happen, it can simulate but not be so I did not contradict myself.  I said I knew the moral and ethical questions exist.  Two completely different things.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

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We don't even know what conscience is & barely understand how it works, let alone do we know whether or not it's achievable through technology. & That's one guy postulating.

So what, is my take. I'm pretty sure we can do damn near anything we think of. The Universe proves stranger and stranger, I'm super optimistic.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Well I'm part of the school that agrees with his postulations, I don't think we can ever create a sentient (self aware) construct.  We can create mimics but that's as far as we can go.  To me AGI in it's true form is more akin to Shelley's Frankenstein, a story, a fiction.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

White 6 said:


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No I haven't, none of my research involves You Tube which I distrust, it all centers around the academic.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

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Thats a weird leap for me to make...its mere postulating and at best, the honest approach seems to be agnosticism.

We do not know enough.

We dont know much about consciousness, therefore its limits or constraints.

We dont know the technological limitations to any practical extent...

We are also not sure, exactly, how far along the research is because there are literally dozens of researchers keeping their progress quiet via legal contracts.


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## fncceo (Dec 6, 2019)

What I want from AI is a very limited set of skills.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

fncceo said:


> What I want from AI is a very limited set of skills.


My wife is still hot but maybe when we're elderly she will let me dabble in some of those uh, Robotics products.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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And that's why there's always differing schools of thought, people see things differently.  Personally I'd be more concerned about the moral and ethical ramifications of cloning than AGI which in a sense is also mimicking (copying) not creating new sentient life.


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

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Cloning is a good topic, but honestly by the time they're able to clone what matters...i.e. the actual brain with its thoughts and memories in tact...we will probably already have agi, if we're ever going to have it. 

But on that, too I'm optimistic. I've seen a memory printed onto a piece of paper. Biology meets technology. 

Really, I fuck around with Religious folks because I do think that it's mostly all bullshit - - - but when things align as they do, it keeps my mind wide open.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

G.T. said:


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The best we can hope for in that area now is blow up dolls........  Or paid "services".......


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

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Ringel!!!!

You need to step your googlage up bro. I'm not gunna link it, lol...but there's ALREADY some...uh, FAR BEYOND blow up dolls out there. 

AND NO I DONT HAVE ONEEEEEEEE


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## fncceo (Dec 6, 2019)

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My initial prototype was less than successful... but I continue to tinker on.


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## Ringel05 (Dec 6, 2019)

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What we can accomplish is amazing, like I said we can eventually make machines that mimic humans but I don't believe we can ever give those machines consciousness/self awareness.  Though it would be kinda cool to have SARAH as a house........


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## G.T. (Dec 6, 2019)

fncceo said:


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SHES A LIL CLUNKY BUT SHE COULD GET IT IN THE POOPER TBH


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## Montrovant (Dec 8, 2019)

fncceo said:


> What I want from AI is a very limited set of skills.



I feel bad that I know what movie that is from.


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## there4eyeM (Dec 8, 2019)

One of the existential problems for our race, humans, is that we have doubts and questions about where we came from and what purpose life has, if any. AI will never have those doubts; it will know it was created, by whom and what for.


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## G.T. (Dec 8, 2019)

there4eyeM said:


> One of the existential problems for our race, humans, is that we have doubts and questions about where we came from and what purpose life has, if any. AI will never have those doubts; it will know it was created, by whom and what for.


It wont necessarily know for what.


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## there4eyeM (Dec 8, 2019)

G.T. said:


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Then, it could hardly be called intelligent.


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## G.T. (Dec 8, 2019)

there4eyeM said:


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That's not true. The intent of developing AGI is different from the perspective of all different researchers, and so there isn't some universal "what for" that we are creating AGI...for it to even know.


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## there4eyeM (Dec 8, 2019)

Seriously, for the "I" to mean anything, it would have to 'understand' what the "A" stood for.


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## G.T. (Dec 8, 2019)

there4eyeM said:


> Seriously, for the "I" to mean anything, it would have to 'understand' what the "A" stood for.


That makes no sense. Of course it would understand what artificial means...but artificial is not a "purpose." Its an adjective.


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## CWayne (Dec 20, 2019)

Ringel05 said:


> Artificial Intelligence often congers up images of Skynet and the Terminator but what is it really based on today's applications.
> 
> AI is a buzzword primarily for marketers and the press, AI doesn't even exist yet.  What we have is ML, Machine Learning or what some have labeled as "Augmented Intelligence", learning that requires a lot of "tweaking" from human sources to allow the machine to "learn".  This allows the machine to learn to accomplish specific tasks without a programmer having to write tons of code.
> The Sci-Fi AI is actually referred to as General Intelligence and will be a looooooong time in the future _*if*_ we ever are able to build it.  To put it in perspective;
> ...


I was looking into take up a course or two on ML.  Its really all about the algorithm.  

Google is big on people with ML knowledge and experience.

I think we're a long way away from true AI.


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## there4eyeM (Dec 20, 2019)

CWayne said:


> Ringel05 said:
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It could be said we still have far to go in even defining what "true AI" would be. As stated, up to now it is really all algorithms.


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