# Principal Posts "F-List"



## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

Wisconsin Principal posted a list of students who had failed a class.

This racheted up the "punishment" for failing classes from denying dance attendance.

(I guess no one failing really cared about the dance)

But they (and their parents) _*DO care*_ about being publically exposed as slackers.

Is the Principal's action akin to a Public Pillory, Cruel And Unusual?

Or is it an effective motivaltional technique?


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## Granny (Mar 17, 2010)

Samson, why do you challenge Granny's old brain with questions like this?

It's not a novel idea ... in bygone days one had to sit in the corner wearing a Dunce Cap.

I'm not certain what the principal did is right - civil rights and privacy being what they are, but I would look on it as more of a motivator.  It would prompt me to improve because I wouldn't want my name up there in the first place.

I'm not sure that way too many of our students can be motivated.


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## Modbert (Mar 17, 2010)

If this is public school, I'm pretty sure this violates some sort of privacy laws that the student is suppose to be protected by.


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## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

Granny said:


> Samson, why do you challenge Granny's old brain with questions like this?



To distract you from nastay, evul, perverted thoughts





Granny said:


> I'm not sure that way too many of our students can be motivated.



The article claims it HAS worked.

My guess is that soon students use being named on the list as another score in their stupid little popularity contests.


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## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> If this is public school, I'm pretty sure this violates some sort of privacy laws that the student is suppose to be protected by.



I'm surprised a principal wouldn't be aware of these laws, but I believe that pillory is unconstitutionally violating protection from "cruel and unusual" punishment."

Why not just have students that fail wear pointy hats and sit in corners?


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## Modbert (Mar 17, 2010)

Samson said:


> *I'm surprised a principal wouldn't be aware of these laws*, but I believe that pillory is unconstitutionally violating protection from "cruel and unusual" punishment."
> 
> Why not just have students that fail wear pointy hats and sit in corners?



I'm not. A principal at a local high school thought it would be a swell idea to close the majority of the bathrooms, leaving one bathroom in the entire school for each gender. This would be 2,000 kids overall by the way.

It lasted about a day before that whole idea got shut down.


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## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > *I'm surprised a principal wouldn't be aware of these laws*, but I believe that pillory is unconstitutionally violating protection from "cruel and unusual" punishment."
> ...



These draconian measures are more a reflection on the pressures of being a Principal more than their poor decision making skills.....


Of course, I could be wrong.......


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## Thinman (Mar 17, 2010)

This is a form of peer pressure and I believe there is plenty of that already.  It is parent and teacher responsibility to motivate students.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2010)

As long as a kid doesn't feel guilty about his or her lack of performance they will continue their usual practices.


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## Modbert (Mar 17, 2010)

mudwhistle said:


> As long as a kid doesn't feel guilty about his or her lack of performance they will continue their usual practices.



Because we all know that if a kid is failing then it automatically means he is some sort of bum.


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## Zander (Mar 17, 2010)

I like it. Full transparency is a good policy.  If your grades suck, too bad.  Stop wasting everyone's time. Shape up or drop out.  In the real world the "F" student is the last person hired and the first person to get laid off or fired when times get tough.  

How hard is it to eek out a "D" in school.......??


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## Modbert (Mar 17, 2010)

Zander said:


> I like it. Full transparency is a good policy.  If your grades suck, too bad.  Stop wasting everyone's time. Shape up or drop out.  In the real world the "F" student is the last person hired and the first person to get laid off or fired when times get tough.
> 
> *How hard is it to eek out a "D" in school*.......??



When you have no support from parents at home or have problems going on, you tell me.

Transparency is a good policy? So much for privacy for the student eh? What's next? Their medical records?


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## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

Zander said:


> I like it. Full transparency is a good policy.  If your grades suck, too bad.  Stop wasting everyone's time. Shape up or drop out.  In the real world the "F" student is the last person hired and the first person to get laid off or fired when times get tough.
> 
> How hard is it to eek out a "D" in school.......??



The point of school is that it is _*NOT*_ the "real world."

Everyone in school is still practicing. 

Failing should be part of success, not ridicule.


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## Modbert (Mar 17, 2010)

Samson said:


> The point of school is that it is _*NOT*_ the "real world."
> 
> Everyone in school is still practicing.
> 
> Failing should be part of success, not ridicule.



And because of people like Zander, you see such attitudes being reflected even in college. I know more than a few people in each class who are not so much afraid of getting a answer wrong but "looking stupid". I have no qualms about getting a question wrong because I understand it's a learning experience and that as a student I'm not expected to get everything 100% right all the time. The same cannot be said of many others however.


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## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > The point of school is that it is _*NOT*_ the "real world."
> ...



Unfortunately the "Fear of Failure," is something that continues even after college.

For example, a standard practice of businesses is to do a "SWOT" analysis for each potential customer:

Strengthes
Weakness
Opportunities
Threats

I've been in SWOT presentations where the "W" was skipped over because no one wanted to admit any failure.


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## Thinman (Mar 17, 2010)

If you are fired for lack of performance and your boss published that information to the entire company, that's ok, because you won't be showing up for work the next day.  But, that student does have to show up and could be subject to ridicule, which only makes him rebellious if he isn't already.  If a failing student needs to be chastised (motivated), it should be private by parent or teacher.


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## JenyEliza (Mar 17, 2010)

This is already done at the college level...is it not? 

Grades posted for all to see at the end of the term.  Passing, failing and in between.

Why not?

I kinda wish my twinlets had this extra bit of peer-pressure on them in high school.   Being 9th graders has been a real eye-opener to them.  They've never really had to work hard to make good grades, but THIS YEAR the work load is pretty tough and NEXT YEAR is even worse for both (they already have their schedule for next year).  

They tend to procrastinate and slack by nature....if they knew their grades would be publicly posted, that would give them a little extra push to work harder and study more.  Of course, that doesn't work for ALL KiDS.  Some would use this list as a badge of honor.

Things in high school have changed, but the kids haven't.  You still have the Princess, the Jock, The Headcase, The Nerd, and The Criminal (and a few new and additional categories since my day), but in the end kids in high school are at the end of their childhood.  It's time for them to start learning about REAL life and REAL consquences for their behavior.  Including not studying or working hard in school.

Name 'em and shame 'em (in high school, no younger).  Get 'em ready for college and the work world.

Jen


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## Modbert (Mar 17, 2010)

JenyEliza said:


> *This is already done at the college level...is it not?
> 
> Grades posted for all to see at the end of the term.  Passing, failing and in between.*
> 
> ...



Don't believe what you see in the movies. If grades are posted, they are posted under IDs or "false names."

For example, for one class, a friend picked Tyler Durden.

Professors are not allowed to share other people's grades with the class either. Why? It violates privacy laws, as does this.


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## Anguille (Mar 17, 2010)

Samson said:


> Wisconsin Principal posted a list of students who had failed a class.
> 
> This racheted up the "punishment" for failing classes from denying dance attendance.
> 
> ...


Epic Fail in the part of the principal. 

By further ostracizing students who aren't succeeding either by lack of ability or lack of interest, the dropout rate will go up.


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## JenyEliza (Mar 17, 2010)

We already do this on a different level with "No Pass, No Play" for student athletes.

My daughter is one of three young ladies on the wrestling team at her school.  She orginally made JV, but was pulled up to Varsity mid season, due to her athletic excellence (and an opening in her weight class they need to fill).  

After winter break, all student athletes participating in winter sports are required to have each of their teachers sign off on their grades, attendance and behavior in order to participate in school sports.  The sign-offs are returned to the Head Coach and they actually DO pay attention to what these sheets say.

My daughter learned the hard way they really *meant* "No Pass, No Play" when one of her teachers reported that she was in danger of failing a class.

She lost her starting Varsity spot and was benched, leaving her to explain to everyone why she wasn't wrestling (team rules require that even if you aren't eligible to participate, you must dress out and attend all games/meets/practices, etc).  

Fortunately (for her) the season only had a few weeks remaining, so her torment wasn't prolonged.  However, this was the bitch-slap she needed to make sure this never happened to her again.  Since then, she has worked her ass off studying and making grades.  Wrestling (for whatever reason) is what makes her happiest.  She's a very comeptitive person by nature, and she loves kicking ass on the mat (which she does).  Can't do that if you don't make the grades.  She's a believer now.


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## Modbert (Mar 17, 2010)

JenyEliza said:


> *We already do this on a different level with "No Pass, No Play" for student athletes.
> *
> My daughter is one of three young ladies on the wrestling team at her school.  She orginally made JV, but was pulled up to Varsity mid season, due to her athletic excellence (and an opening in her weight class they need to fill).
> 
> ...



I notice you didn't respond to what I said.

However, "no pass and no play" is different than publicly listing people's names and grades for all to see.


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## JenyEliza (Mar 17, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> JenyEliza said:
> 
> 
> > *We already do this on a different level with "No Pass, No Play" for student athletes.
> ...



No its not different.

My kid was publicly embarrassed that she lost her spot on the Varsity team--and SHE was left to explain TO HER PEERS why she sat out 3 weeks worth of matches.

Because of her grades.

Same damned thing.  Public humiliation over poor grades.


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## magokay (Mar 17, 2010)

According to FERPA Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, you cannot disclose any information about a student. The District and the Principal can be subject to a fine as well as be sue by the parents for disclosing any information about a student.  There are numerous ways to motivate students. This is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard anybody doing. I am a former High School Principal and Central office Administrator. They teach you this in Graduate school.


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## Charles Stucker (Mar 17, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> Because we all know that if a kid is failing then it automatically means he is some sort of bum.


Pretty much, yeah.
Particularly with they way in which curricula have been watered down in recent years.


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## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

How did this thread get 5,100 + views and only 9 poll responses?


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Mar 17, 2010)

Samson said:


> Wisconsin Principal posted a list of students who had failed a class.
> 
> This racheted up the "punishment" for failing classes from denying dance attendance.
> 
> ...



I dont object to holding people accountable for their actions, or lack of action in this case.  

I'm not totally in support of or against what this guy is doing.   I can see where it might not be the greatest idea but at the same time I applaud him trying to hold his students accountable.

Its a tough one for me, I can't even find an option on the poll that I want to pick.


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## manifold (Mar 17, 2010)

The world needs ditch diggers too.


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## Samson (Mar 17, 2010)

PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:


> Its a tough one for me, I can't even find an option on the poll that I want to pick.




*LOSER!!!!*


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## Charles Stucker (Mar 17, 2010)

Samson said:


> How did this thread get 5,100 + views and only 9 poll responses?



Because it was too hard to decide whether to vote in favor of getting lists of all the lesbians or nor. I mean everyone can see if you do that, and who wants to be known as a perv who gets off watching lesbos?


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## Zander (Mar 17, 2010)

Tough shit. Life is hard. Grow up.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Mar 17, 2010)

Samson said:


> PLYMCO_PILGRIM said:
> 
> 
> > Its a tough one for me, I can't even find an option on the poll that I want to pick.
> ...



if you have a mod add "i'm a loser" to the poll i'll vote that


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## Mr.Fitnah (Mar 18, 2010)

Its not the stockades, its a kick in the pants.


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## Charles Stucker (Mar 18, 2010)

manifold said:


> The world needs ditch diggers too.



I imagine the girl who was marked "Loser" is too lazy to even dig ditches.


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## PLYMCO_PILGRIM (Mar 18, 2010)

Dogbert said:


> If this is public school, I'm pretty sure this violates some sort of privacy laws that the student is suppose to be protected by.



Which ones?  Not that i doubt it but I wouldn't mind reading some in a link so we could discuss it.


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## jillian (Mar 18, 2010)

Samson said:


> Dogbert said:
> 
> 
> > If this is public school, I'm pretty sure this violates some sort of privacy laws that the student is suppose to be protected by.
> ...



I don't think the constitutional prohibition against 'cruel and unusual punishment' is at issue here.

but i do think the principal needs to go back to school for lessons on how to treat people -- starting with you don't hold children up to ridicule.


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