# Do you feed your pet Grain Free Food?



## LoudMcCloud (Mar 24, 2013)

I was wondering how many people in this forum feed there pet a grain free diet?  I feed my puppy, Fancy, Taste of the Wild.

"Fancy" The Chihuahua: What is the best of dog food?


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## Claudette (Mar 25, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> I was wondering how many people in this forum feed there pet a grain free diet?  I feed my puppy, Fancy, Taste of the Wild.
> 
> "Fancy" The Chihuahua: What is the best of dog food?




I was feeding TOTW but they have had two recalls on it from Diamond. By the time you get word that a recall is out there your dog could be dead.

I now feed Wilderness, grain free, from Blue Buffaloe. They have never had a recall.  Rather costly but then I don't eat baloney and neither do my dogs.


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 25, 2013)

Claudette said:


> LoudMcCloud said:
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> > I was wondering how many people in this forum feed there pet a grain free diet?  I feed my puppy, Fancy, Taste of the Wild.
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Good to know.  I just feed Fancy the orange bag, which is the puppy formula.


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## editec (Mar 25, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> I was wondering how many people in this forum feed there pet a grain free diet?  I feed my puppy, Fancy, Taste of the Wild.
> 
> "Fancy" The Chihuahua: What is the best of dog food?



Chicken is cheaper than dog food.  

Chicken is WAY cheaper than good dog food.

I no longer trust the companies that make dog food.


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> I was wondering how many people in this forum feed there pet a grain free diet?  I feed my puppy, Fancy, Taste of the Wild.
> 
> "Fancy" The Chihuahua: What is the best of dog food?



my dog loves a good old peanut butter sandwich once and awhile 

--LOL


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

editec said:


> LoudMcCloud said:
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we make most of our dogs food at home 

has a little store brand ol roy to self feed on 

should she get the urge 

she shies away from veggies 

unless they are in cheese 

--LOL


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## editec (Mar 25, 2013)

Dogs and cats are carnivores.

Grains and too much fat can and eventually will give them pancreatitis

Dog Pancreatitis: Types, Causes, Symptoms, and Treatments


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 25, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


> LoudMcCloud said:
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I would eat peanut butter as a human, much less give it to my dog.  Peanut butter is for the sheep of this world who like rat poison, but dont know it.


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## cereal_killer (Mar 25, 2013)

Always grain free. Orijen and Acana are the only thing I will feed my dog.

As an FYI my last dog died when that last thing went down with dog food. Most horrendous way to watch your dog die. It was gut wrenching what I witnessed.


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## Zoom-boing (Mar 25, 2013)

We've been feeding the dogs PetValu's brand (dry) called Performatrim.  Chicken or lamb and has brown rice rather than wheat.  We have one last bag and we are switching them to Performatrim Grain Free.  I do give them about a tablespoon of wet dog food (Purina Pro Plan) mixed in with the dry for their evening meal so I can mix in some D.E. (Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits) nearly every day.

The cats.  Hmmm, different story.  The old cat (15 yrs) has lived on Friskies canned and free-fed crunchies (Science Diet Hairball) forever.  New kitten (about 8 or 9 months) I was doing the same but started reading up on cat food.    I see the mistakes I've been making.  Pulled the crunchies from old cat - he gets them at night after all meals just in case he wants to nom but when this bag of SD Hairball is gone he will get the grain free crunchies that the kitten eats).  Kitten only gets about 1/8 cup of grain free crunchies at night, before bedtime.

Am in the process of switching them off of Friskies to better food.  Cats are pickier.  I've found they like Natural Balance original flavor, Chicken Soup for the Cat Lovers Soul, and a new brand called B.G. (before grain).  All are grain and crap free.  I also mix in chicken, beef or pork (old cat loves him some pork done on the grill!) several times a week.

Once I pulled old cats crunchies I noticed a huge decrease in his water intake.  Those damn things were making him very, very thirsty.


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## Skull Pilot (Mar 25, 2013)

I don't eat grains and I certainly would not feed my dogs (or cats) a grain based food.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Mar 25, 2013)

There are many examples of dogs eating a vegetarian or even vegan diet and living to a very old age.  Even  Guinness World Record old age. 

So they must not be carnivores.  Cats are obligatory carnivores, meaning they will become ill if they don't get any meat at all.

My dogs get Canine Caviar Lamb & Pearl Millet and sometimes the Chicken and Pearl Millet.  In addition, I give them homemade food consisting of brown rice, green beans, scrambled egg, boiled hamburger, cottage cheese and diced chicken breast.  With a few squirts of salmon oil.  They are in very good health...so far.  One Doberman is almost 10, the other is almost 9.

I have seen dogs live to a ripe old age when fed cheap dog food, too.  Not that I advocate that, not at all!


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> There are many examples of dogs eating a vegetarian or even vegan diet and living to a very old age.  Even  Guinness World Record old age.
> 
> So they must not be carnivores.  Cats are obligatory carnivores, meaning they will become ill if they don't get any meat at all.
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my dog loves to eat fresh grass 

she has also been known to eat 

broccoli covered in cheese 

in fact she will beg for it 

--LOL


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## uscitizen (Mar 25, 2013)

I found it was cheaper to buy birdseed and spread on the yard than to buy catfood.


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 25, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


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Its not healthy to give dogs human food because human food isnt good for humans anymore.  In the old days, dogs and humans had the same type of diet.


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


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speak for yourself 

out here all of our meals are straight up healthy 

no out of the box cookin going on here 

my dog is 13 going on 6 

--LOL


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 25, 2013)

Your 1 in a million.


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> Your 1 in a million.



thanks 

my dogs over time have died of anything but 

food related problems 

ringo as we call her 

has refrained from taking in too much alcohol 

she did in her early years but she got pretty sassy 

--LOL


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 25, 2013)

My dog loves cat food, whether it has passed through the cat first, or not.  She seems to be doing well.  As a matter-of-fact, my vet is pleased that she maintains a healthy weight (dachsunds often have weight problems and related musco-skeletal issues.)


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 25, 2013)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/pets/285358-this-is-my-new-chihuahua-puppy.html

This is my puppy.  This is a thread from this forum.  I feed her steak some and let her have a little bit of coconut milk.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 25, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> http://www.usmessageboard.com/pets/285358-this-is-my-new-chihuahua-puppy.html
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> This is my puppy.  This is a thread from this forum.  I feed her steak some and let her have a little bit of coconut milk.



Easy for you.  I have one of these, a Great Pyrenees.  At 125 lbs, how much steak do you think I should feed her daily?


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## Gracie (Mar 25, 2013)

I stick with Purina. So far, they have escaped tainted food for pets. But I also cook for them. They get a chicken put in a boiling pot of water along with a dash of salt and pepper, LOTS of chopped carrots and rice added in. Once the chicken is cooked, I remove all bones, chop up the skin and meat and then shred it, stir it all up and they get that with their dry Beneful dog food. So far, so good. Been doing this for the past 20 years for my furkids.


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


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what a sweet dog

i have a chow chow 

not nearly as big as your dog


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## Gracie (Mar 25, 2013)

That is a BIG dog! I have seen pyrenees before...awesome dogs.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 25, 2013)

My Pyr has her job, she protects 'her' goats from other predators.  She gets quality food, the best I can afford.  But, she also likes to eat some hay and all the hot mash the goats will let her have (beet pulp mixed with molasses, kelp meal, and brewer's yeast, plus some oats and barley for texture).  Crazy dog!  She is one of the sweetest dogs I have ever owned and I will have more Pyrs as I expand my livestock operation.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 25, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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I'd still bet you're not feeding your Chow steak.


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 25, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


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I have no idea. I just give Fancy a few pieces here and there.


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


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some but not a lot 

we get beef pretty cheap out here in South Dakota 

the last beef we had butchered cost 400 dollars


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 25, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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Like I mentioned, the house mini-doxie eats mostly cat food, it's what she likes.  The Pyr get food that's costing me around $40 for 50 lbs.  I try to avoid food that has corn in it, but grains, it's impossible to avoid them all.  So far, my Pyr is in great condition.  She was laying out in the snow and not even melting what was under her a while ago...


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 25, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


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--LOL

from what i understand they love the cold and snow 

we almost adopted one 

she is really a  nice dog 

however the lady that took her in fell in love with her 

so much for that 

we have a cat also baby is her name 

the dog does not care about her food at all 

baby is not into people food at all

try and give her some she looks at you like "really"

she is adopted and we discovered 

that she uses the toilet mostly 

which is nice to know so i could  stop blaming the grandson for not wiping 

and leaving number 2s in the toilet 

--LOL


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## Skull Pilot (Mar 26, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


> There are many examples of dogs eating a vegetarian or even vegan diet and living to a very old age.  Even  Guinness World Record old age.
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> So they must not be carnivores.  Cats are obligatory carnivores, meaning they will become ill if they don't get any meat at all.
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Grain based and vegetarian are not equivalent.


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## Claudette (Mar 26, 2013)

Hell. I had a dog who would eat blue berries and raspberries right off the plants. He loved em. 

When pups dogs will eat just about anything you care to give em. As they mature I find they get pickier on the veggies and go for the meat. Carnivors. Just like me. LOL

I would feed mine the BARF diet if I could afford it but hey, Wilderness is great food. I give em a teaspoon of the wet in it two or three times a week. You'd think they got a T-bone the way they scarf it down.


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## Zoom-boing (Mar 26, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> My dog loves cat food, whether it has passed through the cat first, or not.  She seems to be doing well.  As a matter-of-fact, my vet is pleased that she maintains a healthy weight (dachsunds often have weight problems and related musco-skeletal issues.)



Ours too, especially the smaller one.  And they both think that rabbit poop is candy or something.  Gotta watch them when they go in the yard, they're also nosing around looking for a treat.  Ewwww.


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 26, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> Claudette said:
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Fed Fancy a little steak tonight.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 26, 2013)

Claudette said:


> Hell. I had a dog who would eat blue berries and raspberries right off the plants. He loved em.
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> When pups dogs will eat just about anything you care to give em. As they mature I find they get pickier on the veggies and go for the meat. Carnivors. Just like me. LOL
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> I would feed mine the BARF diet if I could afford it but hey, Wilderness is great food. I give em a teaspoon of the wet in it two or three times a week. You'd think they got a T-bone the way they scarf it down.



With six cats in residence, my house dog gets plenty of barf in her diet.  Like I mentioned, processed through the cats, or not, she does pretty well.  I've tried feeding her dog food and the only time she'll eat it is when she can take it from the neighbor's Rottweiler's bowl.

While they are not vegetarians, canids will eat the gut and contents of their kills when hunting in the wild.  That means, they do need some of that vegetative material, when pre-processed by their prey.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 26, 2013)

jon_berzerk said:


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Pyrs are great guardians, that's what they've been bred for.  They don't require high activity and are really calm tempered.  They don't always get on very well with other dogs because they also tend to be very independent Alpha-type dogs.  Problem is, they are very large guardians, with lots and lots of white hair.  They have a double undercoat that sheds.  My Pyr sheds so heavily, I don't even bother combing or brushing her, I just thatch her.  Not only would I not have my Pyr indoors, she hates being indoors or confined in any way, although she respects her fenced boundaries well enough.
Some of my cats will eat people food, some won't.  My Sherman is particularly fond of pastries.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Mar 26, 2013)

Skull Pilot said:


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Okay, but vegetarians and vegans do eat grains.  And I was responding to whether or not dogs are carnivores.  They are apparently not if they can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, including grains.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 26, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


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Dogs are most definitely carnivores, despite human efforts to make them something else.

Myths About Raw: Are dogs omnivores?


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 26, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


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dogs Have an undeniable carnivorous bias


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 26, 2013)

the problem with a vegetarian diet is the lagoons.   Lagoons such as beans and peanuts are unhealthy.  Look up the Paleo Diet to verify.  You need protein.   Nuts are good for you but the ones in the stores are unhealthy because they are cooked in peanut oil.  Peanuts are linked to allergies in numerous studies.  Allergies cause immune system deficiency which causes infection and viruses to get the upper hand.  NO bread, NO dairy, NO gluten, ONlY water.   That means fruits, nuts, veggies, and meats.  This a high protein diet.   Health programs like cross fit and p90x both follow the paleo diet.


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## gallantwarrior (Mar 27, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> the problem with a vegetarian diet is the lagoons.   Lagoons such as beans and peanuts are unhealthy.  Look up the Paleo Diet to verify.  You need protein.   Nuts are good for you but the ones in the stores are unhealthy because they are cooked in peanut oil.  Peanuts are linked to allergies in numerous studies.  Allergies cause immune system deficiency which causes infection and viruses to get the upper hand.  NO bread, NO dairy, NO gluten, ONlY water.   That means fruits, nuts, veggies, and meats.  This a high protein diet.   Health programs like cross fit and p90x both follow the paleo diet.



Legumes.  They are called 'legumes'.  Dogs are not meant to eat a diet of legumes, most definitely.


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## LoudMcCloud (Mar 27, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


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> > the problem with a vegetarian diet is the lagoons.   Lagoons such as beans and peanuts are unhealthy.  Look up the Paleo Diet to verify.  You need protein.   Nuts are good for you but the ones in the stores are unhealthy because they are cooked in peanut oil.  Peanuts are linked to allergies in numerous studies.  Allergies cause immune system deficiency which causes infection and viruses to get the upper hand.  NO bread, NO dairy, NO gluten, ONlY water.   That means fruits, nuts, veggies, and meats.  This a high protein diet.   Health programs like cross fit and p90x both follow the paleo diet.
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Finally, I have wondered how to spell it.  I am GrbG.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Mar 27, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


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Okay, gallantwarrior, explain dogs living into their 20s on a vegetarian diet.



> Dogs are classified in the order Carnivora, but, unlike cats (a topic for another day) they have evolved biologically as omnivores, meaning their systems can derive nutrients from a wide variety of sources, including fruits, vegetables, grains, legumes and animal products.



Vegan diet for dogs: A question of thriving vs. surviving - CNN.com

Feeding a Vegitarian Diet - Whole Dog Journal Article

I'm just arguing for the sake of debate.  My dogs get plenty of meat in their diet.  But it's obvious to me the way they love...carrots...for example, that they are not strict carnivores.  I can be in the kitchen and say quietly, "I wonder if anyone wants a carrot?" and they come running from all corners of the house. : )


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## LoudMcCloud (Apr 16, 2013)

You ever notice how weak and sick vegans look.  You need meat man, you need meat.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Apr 16, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> You ever notice how weak and sick vegans look.  You need meat man, you need meat.



No, actually, I haven't noticed that, LoudMcCloud.  I have a sister-in-law who is a vegan and she looks perfectly healthy.  Nice and trim, good skin tone, lots of energy, doesn't get sick all the time.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the dogs that have managed to live into their late teens and even 20s on a vegetarian or vegan diet...

If they were truly carnivores they wouldn't thrive so well on a meatless diet.

Mind you, my dogs get plenty of meat, but I find it difficult to criticize people who put dogs on vegan diets when they can live into their 20s on it.

Cats, no.  Cats are obligatory carnivores.  They need meat to be healthy.


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## gallantwarrior (Apr 16, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


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Dogs eat shit.  Who cares how long they live eating shit.  That's actually probably a more natural food source than a strictly vegetarian diet for dogs.  Dogs eat rotting things and whatever else they can find.


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## LoudMcCloud (Apr 17, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


> I was wondering how many people in this forum feed there pet a grain free diet?  I feed my puppy, Fancy, Taste of the Wild.
> 
> "Fancy" The Chihuahua: What is the best of dog food?




Fancy is 4 months old and eating 3 handfuls of food per day.  Oh, she is 8 lbs.


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## gallantwarrior (Apr 17, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


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Be cautious.  Some breeds have a tendency to become overweight.  My vet is always pleased that my 14-yr-old mini-doxie is to trim and fit.  But she watches her diet well.  She's always been a "self-feeder" and my experience is, if left to their own devices, most animals will not over-eat.


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## LoudMcCloud (Apr 17, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


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This is a grain free diet.  She isnt eating any thing fatty.  She will have insane muscle definition.  Just follow my Fancy the Chihuahua Blog and you will see her progress.


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## gallantwarrior (Apr 17, 2013)

LoudMcCloud said:


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That's good.  While dogs may need some vegetation in their diets, they should not be fed a diet exclusive of meat protein.  That is not natural and their digestive systems are not set up to eat only vegetables, especially raw vegetables.  Did you know that dogs in the wild will eat the stomach contents of their prey?  Partially digested vegetable matter?  That's how they are able to handle plant materials in their diet.


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## LoudMcCloud (Apr 17, 2013)

The grain free dogs food do have veggies.  You might want to do some research.


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## gallantwarrior (Apr 17, 2013)

Raw veggies?  I knew a gal who fed her pooch a "special" diet (grain free) but she cooked everything, meat and veggies.  No raw stuff at all.
I currently have one dog who eats cat food.  That's what she likes.  She gets treats and small snacks (the land lord feeds dogs table scraps, a practice strictly forbidden at my house) but she doesn't like dog food.  That's a difference between dogs and cats, by-the-way, a dog does well enough on a cat-food based diet, but cats eating dog food as a regular part of their diet develop all kinds of problems.  Taurine, for instance, is an important element that cats must have included in their diets that dogs do not need supplemented.
My other dog lives with the goats and gets high-quality kibble.  She supplements her diet by eating goat chow, both pre- and post-processed.  She does get chewies and biscuits but we don't feed her scraps or raw meat.


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## longknife (Apr 17, 2013)

Although canines have teeth for tearing meat, they have been omnivores from time unknown when domesticated. They NEED a balanced diet of meat, grains, fruits, and vegetables. I've tried a lot over the years and find Beneful for my big dog and Nutro Ultra excellent for my Chihuahua.

Also, it never hurts to feed them a LITTLE bit of dinner scraps.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Apr 17, 2013)

gallantwarrior, I think the point I'm trying to make is that if some dogs, any dog, can live well into their 20s on a vegetarian diet, it can't be that bad for them.  In fact, it sounds like it might be kind of good for them.

Read my links, they explain it better than I can.


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## gallantwarrior (Apr 17, 2013)

Whether it is good for them, or not...how about considering what they might prefer?  Is it any crime to provide foods that dogs like, as long as done so in moderation?


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## Kooshdakhaa (Apr 17, 2013)

longknife said:


> Although canines have teeth for tearing meat, they have been omnivores from time unknown when domesticated. They NEED a balanced diet of meat, grains, fruits, and vegetables. I've tried a lot over the years and find Beneful for my big dog and Nutro Ultra excellent for my Chihuahua.
> 
> Also, it never hurts to feed them a LITTLE bit of dinner scraps.



And it depends what the dinner scraps are.  For example, if it's boneless, skinless chicken breast, or piece of steak, etc. what harm does it do?  

One of my dogs LOVES cooked spaghetti noodles, just plain.  She goes crazy for them.  She only gets a few of them once every two-three months.  No harm there.

No onions, excessive fat, spicy sauces, that sort of thing, though!


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## earlycuyler (Apr 17, 2013)

I switched to that stuff you get in the fridge at petco, and the blue buffalo kibble.


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## gallantwarrior (Apr 17, 2013)

Kooshdakhaa said:


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Onions, raisins, and chocolate should be off any dog (or cat) diet.


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## Kooshdakhaa (Apr 17, 2013)

gallantwarrior said:


> Whether it is good for them, or not...how about considering what they might prefer?  Is it any crime to provide foods that dogs like, as long as done so in moderation?



Okay, you got a big grin out of me that time!

Why do you think my dogs aren't vegetarians?  : )  I bake pans of boneless, skinless chicken breast for them, which is added to their food and also used as treats or pill chasers if needed.  They get bully sticks to chew on.  And their dry food is Canine Caviar Lamb and Pearl Millet.  Lamb is the first ingredient.  They also get other bits of meat and the homemade moist food I give them contains chicken, cottage cheese, boiled hamburger and scrambled egg (with brown rice).

I think you hit the nail on the head.  They may not be obligatory carnivores like cats are, but dogs LOVE meat.  I'm not about to deprive them of it. : )


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