# Point Of Order About Punctuation



## Madeline (Nov 9, 2010)

*Where does the period go?*​
If Kevin writes "I told Susie 'Take the trash out before I leave.'." and I quote him in full, how is that new sentence punctuated?  I claim it is done like this:

"Kevin wrote [that he had] told Susie 'Take the trash out before I leave.'."

Now, if Kevin does not use quotes, his sentence becomes:

I told Susie to take the trash out before I leave.

And if I quote that sentence, I claim this is how it should be punctuated:

Kevin wrote "I told Susie to take the trash out before I leave.".

What I am aiming at with this Op is, where does the final period go?  Inside the quote or outside?


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## Valerie (Nov 9, 2010)

Outside..and maybe you don't need the one inside?


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## Liability (Nov 9, 2010)

Maddy, please.  Be a lady.

No more talk of periods.


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## Valerie (Nov 9, 2010)

_The following example contrasts the American style, the British style, and our recommended literary and technical styles using a partial quote from the above example. Note that in the British and technical style, it is clear that we did not quote the entire sentence.

    * American: Bill said, "I just got back."
    * British: Bill said, 'I just got back'.
    * NIVA Literary: Bill said, "I just got back."
    * NIVA Technical: Bill said, "I just got back".

You will often find that in technical writing the American style can cause confusion.

    * American: Give the file the extension ".TXT."
    * British: Give the file the extension '.TXT'.
    * NIVA Literary: Give the file the extension ".TXT."
    * NIVA Technical: Give the file the extension ".TXT".

The comma is used and the quote is capitalized even when the quotation marks are absent.
_

Writer's Block - Writing Tips - Placement of Punctuation and Quotation Marks


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## Valerie (Nov 9, 2010)

I think your example amounts to:

*NIVA Technical: Bill said, "I just got back".
*


NIVA Technical: Kevin wrote, "Bill said, 'I just got back' ".


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## Samson (Nov 9, 2010)

*Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.* 


Examples: 
1. The sign changed from "Walk," to "Don't Walk," to "Walk" again within 30 seconds.  
2. She said, "Hurry up."  
3. She said, "He said, 'Hurry up.'"


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## Valerie (Nov 9, 2010)

Samson said:


> *Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.*
> 
> 
> Examples:
> ...





American style.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 9, 2010)

Valerie said:


> _The following example contrasts the American style, the British style, and our recommended literary and technical styles using a partial quote from the above example. Note that in the British and technical style, it is clear that we did not quote the entire sentence.
> 
> * American: Bill said, "I just got back."
> * British: Bill said, 'I just got back'.
> ...



I liked Liability's answer better.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 9, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > *Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.*
> ...


American style is quick, easy, and to the point.


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 9, 2010)

Quotation Marks: Where Do the Periods and Commas Go--And Why?


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## JBeukema (Nov 9, 2010)

Madeline said:


> *Where does the period go?*​
> If Kevin writes "I told Susie 'Take the trash out before I leave.'." and I quote him in full, how is that new sentence punctuated?  I claim it is done like this:
> 
> "Kevin wrote [that he had] told Susie 'Take the trash out before I leave.'."
> ...



Kevin's exact words, if I recall, were: 'I told Susie "Take the trash out before I leave.'"


The period goes inside the nested quote, since it's part of the quotation. You don't need to punctuate the sentence containing the punctuation because that would be pointless and wasteful, seeing as it ends along with the quotation.


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## JBeukema (Nov 9, 2010)

Valerie said:


> _The following example contrasts the American style, the British style, and our recommended literary and technical styles using a partial quote from the above example. Note that in the British and technical style, it is clear that we did not quote the entire sentence.
> 
> * American: Bill said, "I just got back."
> * British: Bill said, 'I just got back'.
> ...



My style looks most like NIVA Literary, although I use logical quotations as opposed to using typesetters' quotations as is common in America.


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## JBeukema (Nov 9, 2010)

Samson said:


> *Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.*
> 
> 
> Examples:
> ...




Except that necessarily leads to incorrect quotations, which can cause problems in technical settings.


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## JBeukema (Nov 9, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > *Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.*
> ...


Rule if thumb: if it states with 'American' (cheese, style, military aid) you're probably better off declining.


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## Madeline (Nov 9, 2010)

Samson said:


> *Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.*
> 
> 
> Examples:
> ...



I agree with number 1 and number 2 I might concede, but surely number 3 is missing a final period?


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## uscitizen (Nov 9, 2010)

Missing a period can be nerve wracking.


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## Madeline (Nov 9, 2010)

Well, it appears I was wrong...there is no final period.  The period goes inside the quotation mark when it ends a piece of dialogue and outside elsewise.  

Dagnabit.

Form. Strunk, William, Jr. 1918. Elements of Style


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## syrenn (Nov 9, 2010)

?.


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## Ringel05 (Nov 10, 2010)

i, lernd hawh 2 punktwoate' "? in :mi advansd freacshman( )eglicsh clase thiz last }sumer "
!.


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## Samson (Nov 10, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Missing a period can be nerve wracking.



How do you know?


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## Liability (Nov 11, 2010)

Madeline said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > *Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.*
> ...



Wrong.  It is not "surely."  The period is at the end of the sentence inside the quote.  No OTHER end of sentence punctuation is needed.  Indeed, two periods would be plainly silly.

..


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## California Girl (Nov 11, 2010)

A panda bear walks into a bar and orders a sandwich. The waiter brings him the sandwich. The panda bear eats it, pulls out a pistol, kills the waiter, and gets up and starts to walk out.

The bartender yells for him to stop. The panda bear asks, "What do you want?" The bartender replies, "First you come in here, order food, kill my waiter, then try to go without paying for your food."

The panda bear turns around and says, "Hey! I'm a Panda. Look it up!" The bartender goes into the back room and looks up panda bear in the encyclopedia, which read: "Panda: a bear-like marsupial originating in Asian regions. Known largely for it's stark black and white coloring. Eats shoots and leaves."

'Eats Shoots and Leaves' is a great book about punctuation too.


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## Samson (Nov 11, 2010)

California Girl said:


> A panda bear walks into a bar and orders a sandwich. The waiter brings him the sandwich. The panda bear eats it, pulls out a pistol, kills the waiter, and gets up and starts to walk out.
> 
> The bartender yells for him to stop. The panda bear asks, "What do you want?" The bartender replies, "First you come in here, order food, kill my waiter, then try to go without paying for your food."
> 
> ...





Commas, damn them.


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## JBeukema (Nov 11, 2010)

Liability said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > Samson said:
> ...




And raise costs and labour for the printers...


I'm with liability on this one.


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## AVG-JOE (May 25, 2011)

Madeline said:


> *Point Of Order About Punctuation*
> 
> *Where does the period go?*​



  Wherever you put it, don't put it between the six and the nine!

What IS a 6.9 you ask?  




  A delicious afternoon delight simply *ruined* by a period!


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## AVG-JOE (May 25, 2011)

Madeline said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> > *Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quotes.*
> ...



What if you need something besides a period in the quoted sentence?

3. She said, "He said, 'That bear is a big 'un!  Hurry up!!!!  '".


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## editec (May 25, 2011)

Madeline said:


> *Where does the period go?*​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Different editors debate this issue. 

That's why there's many "elements of style". There's the British school, there's the Chicago school there's the Stunk and White approach, the NYT approach, etc.

I'd go with the period within the quotes_ if that sentence also ended the paragraph_.

If another sentence followed, then I think I'd probably go with a comma at the and of the sentence within the quotes, followed by a period.

The key to effective written communication is really:_ DOES IT WORK?_

There are no hard and fast rules, there are suggestions.

And over time, even those suggestions change.


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## daveman (May 25, 2011)

Valerie said:


> I think your example amounts to:
> 
> *NIVA Technical: Bill said, "I just got back".
> *
> ...



Hip-hop:  Sir Mix-a-Lot wrote, "Baby got back".

I cannot lie.  You other brothers can't deny.


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