# merged threads on beheading in egypt



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

From AP

CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal. 

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit who identified himself as an American from Philadelphia. 

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and cutting off his head with a large knife. They then held the head out before the camera.


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *From AP
> 
> CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal.
> ...



I don't think anyone said that al-qaeda, or any group affiliated with them, was nice, did they? Like thes murderous bastards needed a reason anyway.


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## remie (May 11, 2004)

Thanks to the media blowing Iraqi prisoner treatment completely out of proportion, shit like this happens


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...i_ea/iraq_american_beheaded&cid=540&ncid=1480

CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal. 








The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit who identified himself as an American from Philadelphia.


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

ok, now that I'm done screwing up the admin options on this thread......have at it.


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## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *I don't think anyone said that al-qaeda, or any group affiliated with them, was nice, did they? Like thes murderous bastards needed a reason anyway. *



Sorry, poor choice of word. I should have called them sub-human.


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *Sorry, poor choice of word. I should have called them sub-human. *



that works.


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## 007 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *From AP
> 
> CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal.
> ...



Some of our people make a couple Iraqi's get naked, and the worlds in an uproar.

Now watch, this incident will either go unnoticed, or little or nothing will be said about it.

The more of this I see and hear, the more I tend to become an isolationist.


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## insein (May 11, 2004)

This is fucking ridiculous.  These are th kinds of animals that are in those jails.  So i don't have a bleeding heart for them and their shame culture.  I still think our soldiers actions were wrong because it hurts the militaries image, but more and more it seems these bastards deserved worse.


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## 007 (May 11, 2004)

I'm getting to the point of "why the fuck should we care"?


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *This is fucking ridiculous.  These are th kinds of animals that are in those jails.  So i don't have a bleeding heart for them and their shame culture.  I still think our soldiers actions were wrong because it hurts the militaries image, but more and more it seems these bastards deserved worse. *



Not all of those people in the prison are terrorists or murderers. Didn't you just get done telling me that we should reserve judgement before making claims without seeing the pictures? I would think the same would apply with accused criminals.


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## SPIKESMYGOD (May 11, 2004)

As I knew, it took CNN nearly half an hour to cover it, too busy with their wall-to-wall Abu Ghraib "atrocities." And, of course, they are blaming us for not making a deal with these butchers.

Yeah, the LMM is just a myth........RIGHT!


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## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *Not all of those people in the prison are terrorists or murderers. Didn't you just get done telling me that we should reserve judgement before making claims without seeing the pictures? I would think the same would apply with accused criminals. *



Yes but theres a big difference between humiliation and possible torture and Cutting someones fucking head off.  I'm just so angry and the fact that they say this guy was from philly enrages me more.

How can anyone compare the 2?


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Yes but theres a big difference between humiliation and possible torture and Cutting someones fucking head off.  I'm just so angry and the fact that they say this guy was from philly enrages me more.
> 
> How can anyone compare the 2? *



ok, now we're talking about two different things. In no way do I equate what happened to this guy from philly and what happened in Abu Ghraib. Why not you may ask? I simply don't care about the murderous bastards that filmed their brutal act. They didn't need a reason, they never do, but they are going to use this to try to legitimize their heinous killing. I don't expect anything better of that small group simply because they are terrorists. I say find those 5 bastards, kill them, and bury them with the pigs.


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## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *ok, now we're talking about two different things. In no way do I equate what happened to this guy from philly and what happened in Abu Ghraib. Why not you may ask? I simply don't care about the murderous bastards that filmed their brutal act. They didn't need a reason, they never do, but they are going to use this to try to legitimize their heinous killing. I don't expect anything better of that small group simply because they are terrorists. I say find those 5 bastards, kill them, and bury them with the pigs. *



Yes but the LMM is portraying this as our fault for the abuse we put on those poor innocent criminals in that prison.

I'm definitely not condoning our actions.  I do think we're better than this.  But the bias that is placed on this situation is aggravating.


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Yes but the LMM is portraying this as our fault for the abuse we put on those poor innocent criminals in that prison.*



I haven't seen the media report other than thats what the murderers of this american have said.


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## Palestinian Jew (May 11, 2004)

Even if they say its because some of our soldiers tortured iraqis, thats not the real reason. The fact is, with or without abuse, they still would have killed the American.


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

I have always found the Geneva convention aburd. A polite way for fight a war if you will. If in the past the America has chosen to go by these rules fine but now its time to take off the fricken gloves. DK has constantly reminded us of the difference in cultures and apparently we are seeing more evidence of it. Being shamed with nudity is to a muslim as beheading is to an American. If we wanted to follow some rules of even-steven  would they rather have us decapitate our prisoners? A shamed Iraqi has the ability to return and seek revenge. Not so for decapitation but thats enough of logic.
    Is it not becoming more and more obvious that these people want to KILL ANYTHING AMERICAN. They don't want to reason period. THIS MEANS YOU AND YOU LOVED ONES ! The court martials MUST BE STOPPED NOW !  In light of what everyone has now heard (come on LMM, SHOW IT LIVE EVERY 5 MINUTES you bastards) the accused abuses should publicly get medals and be put in charge of ALL OUR PRISONERS.
    Are we going to fight to prove we are "better" them using pillows? Please WAKE UP. I don't want to see Americans of any political party killed because we are trying to be better in the eyes of anyone!


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

While its understandable to be angry at this atrocity, we shouldn't lower ourselves to their level. Honestly though, do we really expect anything but murder from these cowards? 

Dillo, expect the killings, expect the bullshit theatrics from them, they don't care about the prisoners in iraq anymore than they care for canadians (sorry isaac). 

'taking the gloves off' should mean going after these thugs and killing them where they stand, not taking them prisoner. Once they are a prisoner though, should we not be above them by treating them humanely, however little they deserve it? Thats what makes us better.


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## rtwngAvngr (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *ok, now we're talking about two different things. In no way do I equate what happened to this guy from philly and what happened in Abu Ghraib. Why not you may ask? I simply don't care about the murderous bastards that filmed their brutal act. They didn't need a reason, they never do, but they are going to use this to try to legitimize their heinous killing. I don't expect anything better of that small group simply because they are terrorists. I say find those 5 bastards, kill them, and bury them with the pigs. *



Here's the point dk.  If libs call people stacked naked in a pyramid an atrocity, then what do they call this?  The democrats will never win another election if  they persist with this reality warp they call "a different point of view".


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rtwngAvngr _
> *Here's the point dk.  If libs call people stacked naked in a pyramid an atrocity, then what do they call this?  The democrats will never win another election they persist with this reality warp they call "a different point of view". *



people calling the things we have seen so far, with the exception of the dog attack, an atrocity are playing politics and playing it badly. You're right, the democrats that are trying to do nothing but use this as a weapon against the republicans may never win another election, unless their constituency is littered with GOP haters.


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## jcon96 (May 11, 2004)

Pity we could find these and other terrorists families and a make a few movies of our own....


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

ALL for killing them where they stand. Hell with the intel. Kill em til they come beggin for mercy with bin Ladens head on a plate. And if they don't, keep killin em any way before they get us. Your are still trying to be above it all,DK. I think trying to appear above it all is prolonging the war costing lives and makes us look stupid. I KNOW I am better than they are. Fuck what the rest of the world thinks! If they havent seen us act with extreme patience and care by now they never will. Let some PR dude deal with the fallout. I do not feel guilty about America and am tired of trying to defend it.


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## rtwngAvngr (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dilloduck _
> *ALL for killing them where they stand. Hell with the intel. Kill em til they come beggin for mercy with bin Ladens head on a plate. And if they don't, keep killin em any way before they get us. Your are still trying to be above it all,DK. I think trying to appear above it all is prolonging the war costing lives and makes us look stupid. I KNOW I am better than they are. Fuck what the rest of the world thinks! If they havent seen us act with extreme patience and care by now they never will. Let some PR dude deal with the fallout. I do not feel guilty about America and am tired of trying to defend it. *



I say it's time to turn baghdad into glass.  Fuck this.


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

Start with Iran and see if anyone blinks


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

video here 

it's horrendous, disgusting and EXTREMELY GRAPHIC!!!  BE VERY CAREFUL!!!!  

remember to VOTE BUSH 2004!  WE ARE WINNING THE WAR ON TERROR!  

(who the F*** are we kidding?)


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

i apologize for posting such graphic material, but if we don't send a message to the world that we need a change of leadership, there's going to be some really bad shit going down!!!  

get ready for dirty bombs, new enemies, and a living hell.  WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE GONE TO IRAQ AND GOT OURSELVES INTO THIS MESS!!!!!!!!


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

we need to intensify our force over there if anything. If we cut and run now we prove that terrorists can win.


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

look sir evil,

WE NEED A NEW STRADEGY!!!!!

i agree we need to bolster troops, but moreover we need a plan that works!!!  we are failing right now!  

that video made me sick to my stomach.  it only PROVES how we have failed so far and we are STILL FAILING.  

we need a plan.  NOW.  we elected these people to do the right thing.  to handle the job.  we are not making progress.  i am not saying cut and run, but we NEED A CHANGE!!!!  if our leadership cannot handle the job, it's TIME TO REPLACE IT WITH SOMEONE WHO CAN!    

i'm tired of the death, the poor planning, the damage controls, the polls, everything!  i believe we can keep the dirty suitcase bomb from coming here, if we adopt a new stragedy!!!  and it shouldn't involve more KILLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rtwngAvngr (May 11, 2004)

Spilly and the other lib-o-craps, get confused between ignoring problems and dealing with them.  They're confused about freedom and tyranny, black and white, right and wrong, truth and lies.


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> C'mon man have some friggin decency when it comes to a human life!



let's get this straight-

i am NOT USING THIS AS A PLATFORM FOR ANYBODY!  

i don't even know if kerry could turn things around!!!!  i've just HAD IT with the way these people that we pay to run our country have screwed it all up!!!!  our policy, and our approach HAS TO CHANGE.  it has to DRASTICALLY CHANGE!  otherwise, death on a mass scale is coming here to the states.  i sure hope none of you want that!!!!!!!


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> Spilly and the other lib-o-craps, get confused between ignoring problems and dealing with them. They're confused about freedom and tyranny, black and white, right and wrong, truth and lies.



oh really?  great job dealing with this tyranny, man!  fine mess we've made!!!!  how could we have done any worse?!!!  nuking the area?  

diff between you and i that I DON'T STRIVE FOR SEGREGATION.  i don't demonize those who don't agree with me.  i don't focus on them being the problem. i focus on the problem BEING THE PROBLEM.  

what do you say we work TOGETHER to come up with a solution???!!


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> You oughts be Spilly, your a sicko!


  

man!  what's it going to take before people realise what we are doing is NOT WORKING??!!!


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## rtwngAvngr (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *
> 
> man!  what's it going to take before people realise what we are doing is NOT WORKING??!!! *



Take your perspective-free, negative, historically ignorant and antiamerican viewpoint and go shopping at wal-mart.


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## proud_savagette (May 11, 2004)

Can you believe this?  Yes, this is what the "religion of peace" did to one of our troops:

Date Posted: Tuesday, May 11, 2004

WASHINGTON, May 11 (MASNET & News Agencies) - An al-Qaeda-related website posted a video showing the beheading of a 26-year-old American whose body was found in Baghdad over the weekend, reports U.S. television networks.



A senior U.S. State Department official identified the slain American as Nicholas Berg, a private businessman from Pennsylvania who was in Iraq looking for contracts, reports Agence France-Presse (AFP).



The official said Berg's body had been found by the side of a road near Baghdad over the weekend.



Television networks said the video of Berg's execution showed five hooded men standing behind Berg while one of them read a statement denouncing the abuses of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison.



A poor quality videotape on the site showed a bearded Berg seated on the ground dressed in an orange jumpsuit sitting bound on a white plastic chair in a bare room, then on the floor with five masked men behind him, reports Reuters news agency.



"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael... I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah," said the bound man, adding he was from Philadelphia.



"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," one of the men read from a statement.



"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."



After the statement was finished, Berg's captors decapitated him with a large knife, according to the television networks, which did not show video of the actual execution but described it as horrific.



The gruesome manner of slaying was similar to the 2002 killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, who was kidnapped and beheaded in Pakistan by al-Qaeda members.



Television networks said the tape on the website with links to al-Qaeda was titled "Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi slaughtering an American."



Zarqawi is a wanted al-Qaeda operative and is a top ally of Osama bin Laden. The networks said it was unclear whether Zarqawi himself murdered Berg.



Jordanian-born Zarqawi, 37, has raised his profile and status as al-Qaeda's most active operational leader with a series of suicide bombs and attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq, reports Reuters.



A U.S. official said the Central Intelligence Agency was reviewing the tape. The person killed on the video identified himself as Berg and gave the correct names for his parents, reports Reuters.



"We're reviewing the tape. At this point we need to review it to see whether it is Zarqawi," the official said.



The State Department official said Berg had gone missing in mid-April.



"Berg's body was found with his hands behind his back and beheaded," said another U.S. official who declined to be identified. "The body was found along a roadside by a U.S. military patrol."



"He was a private American citizen not associated with a military contract," said an official.



Berg was a small-business owner from West Chester, PA, a Philadelphia suburb, his family said Tuesday.



The State Department official also said that Berg had been taken into Iraqi custody around the town of Mosul in late March. "He was released and went to Baghdad in early April," the official said, adding that he did not know why Berg was arrested.


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## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *look sir evil,
> 
> WE NEED A NEW STRADEGY!!!!!
> ...



First, what the heck is a stradegy?

Second, How is electing Kerry going to help us handle the job? All he has promised to do is go to the UN and grovel in front of France Germany, Russia and a bunch of Muslim despots. how is that a better StaTegy? The man has already shown he is willing to vote to put our troops in harms way and then oppose the funding to give them freaking body armor. Kerry has admitted committing war attrocities far worse than these soldiers in Iraq did. You can disagree with Bush all you want but how on earth are you going to say Kerry will handle the job better?


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

It proves how desperate they are and how well they know our LMM. I just watched several news channels and they are all giving this story about 20 secs except for FOX. MUCH more time is being spent on  covering the prison abuse. I'm beside myself with anger at the press' lack of truthful reporting. I can only assume that they are afraid to show this video because Americans will be either angry at them or angry at the terrorists. If it would produce anger at Bush it would be on your TV for 24 hours straight!:chains: 

This is for you ----media mind controllers !!!!!!!


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

Spilly--You better ask the media when america is ready for a new strategy because its up to them bastards. If a new strategy is occuring as we speak I certainly hope our leaders ask the press if it will work. The libs got their finger in the wind trying out how to make political hay so dont look to them for help.

secret-----the strategy that will work is unamerican----holy shit--what do we do now batman???


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> First, what the heck is a stradegy?


 until you hammer your partisan board cronies as well, this is total hypocrisy.

i didn't say kerry would be able to handle it better, did i?. I SAID WE NEED A CHANGE! so far bush HAS FAILED.  PLEASE prove me wrong.



> If it would produce anger at Bush it would be on your TV for 24 hours straight!


 oh please!  why won't bush release the photos and videos he's seen yet?  give me a break.  



> The libs got their finger in the wind trying out how to make political hay so dont look to them for help.


 spare us your SEGREGATION CRAP, wouldya?


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *From AP
> 
> CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal.
> ...



I think this took place in Iraq....


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

I'm enraged at the media and people who will not or cannot see that this is not the time for talking or trying to keep our holier than thou image. It's time to unite and kick ass with overwhelming power like the mideast has never seen. Can America do an "unamerican" thing to save ourselves. Bush HAS to ignore the media NOW and KILL THEM.


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## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

It did...you may want to read again?


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## proud_savagette (May 11, 2004)

agreed..but if Bush does something like that, liberals will make sure he doesn't get reelected, and kerry will wreck everything...


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *It did...you may want to read again? *



You may want to read the thread title again that's what I was referring to. I guess the story was reported from Cairo, but it refers to an incident that happened in Iraq. More of a tragedy than an incident I suppose. This guy's poor family....


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

spilly----you are the epitome of why there is now plan--you just sit back and criticize.  What is your plan? Our country will implode by its desire to look humane

   Lets here the plan spilly!!!!

 The media is already spreading the word that this execution is Americas fault


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> With that being said, think of me as you want but this shit isn't going to stop regardless of who is leading us! We just need to exterminate them like a bunch of roaches that they are!



ok, i've simmered down a bit, but still pretty pissed- not at anyone on the board, including you, sir evil, but i'm still livid about the situation, and watching this video deeply disturbs me each time.  it's proof that we are currently FAILING in our objective.  

i can't say that a dem candidate can handle what needs to be done, but if bush can't do it, you can bet your paycheck i'm going to vote, and push to have him removed from office!  we can no longer afford to come up short.  PERIOD!

i don't even need you to kiss my butt.  if it all works out, that will be satisfaction enough.  but would somebody give me a good reason to belive that it will??!!


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dilloduck _
> *spilly----you are the epitome of why there is now plan--you just sit back and criticize.  What is your plan? Our country will implode by its desire to look humane
> 
> Lets here the plan spilly!!!!
> ...



The execution is sicko fuck terrorists fault.
But yeah, the fact tat Iraqi prisoners have been tortured since January doesn't help.
This war is doing little for our credibility overseas, in general, IMO. But I suppose the point is to defeat the terrorists... it's not a popularity contest.

But, you know, global politics really is a popularity contest. One that we are not winning right now.


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## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

No SE, to NYC:

The thread has been merged by the mods (I think a bunch were started at the same time when the story broke). My original title was something about "these people are animals" or something, I was PMSing at the time 

Hey mods fix the title!

:


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *ok, i've simmered down a bit, but still pretty pissed- not at anyone on the board, including you, sir evil, but i'm still livid about the situation, and watching this video deeply disturbs me each time.  it's proof that we are currently FAILING in our objective.
> 
> i can't say that a dem candidate can handle what needs to be done, but if bush can't do it, you can bet your paycheck i'm going to vote, and push to have him removed from office!  we can no longer afford to come up short.  PERIOD!
> ...



Yes, and I believe Bush will be removed from office. 
The uglier things get in Iraq the more the people of the United States will question their leader for his decision to invade Iraq. The people don't question the decision to go after terrorists, but they question Bush's bloodlust...


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> The media is already spreading the word that this execution is Americas fault


 first off- THANK YOU for refraining from devisive comments!  

it's not our fault- directly.  but our policy has and currently IS failing.  there is no arguing that (i'd better not say that).  




> spilly----you are the epitome of why there is now plan--you just sit back and criticize. What is your plan? Our country will implode by its desire to look humane
> 
> Lets here the plan spilly!!!!



i have my job. our government has theirs.  if they personally commission me for advice, i want at LEAST what rummy is getting.  i posted my plan for a broader international force in iraq.  this would have to include arab states for it to be successful.  if we are not successful, all of our hard work, energy, and money has been squandered.  at least all of our admin will be set for life, regardless, right?   i'm not a gov official, but i pay my taxes, and i pull my weight in my community!   i open to your ideas


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *No SE, to NYC:
> 
> The thread has been merged by the mods (I think a bunch were started at the same time when the story broke). My original title was something about "these people are animals" or something, I was PMSing at the time
> ...



I better write a letter to the editor  
Jim?


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> We just need to exterminate them like a bunch of roaches that they are!


 we CAN'T- how are we going to do this?

wouldn't it be much simpler (though not simple) to impose a better way of life on the large populace and let that force out terror?


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> I'm enraged at the media and people who will not or cannot see that this is not the time for talking or trying to keep our holier than thou image. It's time to unite and kick ass with overwhelming power like the mideast has never seen. Can America do an "unamerican" thing to save ourselves. Bush HAS to ignore the media NOW and KILL THEM.



brilliant.  why didn't i think of this?  BECAUSE IT WON'T HAPPEN, AND IT WOULDN'T WORK ANYWAY.  you're on the fringe, man.  coming at it from the totally WRONG angle.


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *we CAN'T- how are we going to do this?
> 
> wouldn't it be much simpler (though not simple) to impose a better way of life on the large populace and let that force out terror? *



Yeah, the US is better at imposing than exterminating


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

Broader Coaltion?  I'm sick of that mantra.  They have already cut and run or stayed out of it in the first place. ok sorry----how do you propose we form this broader coalition now?


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> Broader Coaltion? I'm sick of that mantra. They have already cut and run or stayed out of it in the first place. ok sorry----how do you propose we form this broader coalition now?


 why do you think they cut and run?  think seriously and unobjectively, if this is something you would really consider.  if you don't think this is a good idea, you and i are wasting our time.  

an obvious (easiest) step would be to change leadership.  this would send a message to the world that we, as american people, don't like what is happening and what has already taken place, and we want a change.  this kind of push would speak volumes to those nations on the fence, and may even persuade arab nations to join in.  it's the best chance we have.

the other option is for bush to flip-flop, swallow his pride and to plead with other nations to join in and help.  this would involve admittance of poor planning (with the best of intentions)  and poor international policies on ome fronts.  it may be hard to trust him after all that happened, but if bush is serious and sincere- AND IF HE HAS THE BALLS TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT- he would appeal to the nations of the world for help.  i'm sick of our self-righteous pride.  all it has brought us so far is death and hatred.  
this would be the most difficult task that bush could have ever done.  

if he could do this, hell, he might even earn MY VOTE!    all i want to see done is what is right, not what will get someone freaking re-elected!


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## spillmind (May 11, 2004)

> Anyway, I really cant see why you think that this only happened because Bush is in office!


 bush STARTED the war in iraq.  he chose to forego diplomacy by not taking it to it's fullest extent, and he was intent on going to WAR, NO MATTER WHAT.



> Those little bastards are'nt even real men, notice how they were not going to show there faces? Thats what all those terrorist fuckers are, just little cowards creating a big problem! the solution is as I suggested, just plain start extrerminating them like a bad infestation of bugs! If some of our allies were not concerned with lining their pockets we could put a better coalition together! That is in my opinion the biggest problem, not enough of the willing to fight terrorism!


 the ARE people, believe it or not.  neither you nor i could truly relate to that kind of mentality, but i'll tell you right now, enlisting and going over there and imprisoning them and capping them is not going to improve ANYTHING.  we haven't and we can't beat them like that!  just look at the current state of affairs!  we already tried that!


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## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

Arab Street Erupts in Rage Over Beheading Video 
(2004-05-11) -- The so-called 'Arab Street' erupted in rage and grief today, as devoted Muslims crowded into public squares by the hundreds of thousands, in dozens of cities, to denounce the brutal videotaped beheading of American Nicholas Berg by Muslim extremists affiliated with Al Qaeda.

"This is an outrageous, disgusting and obscene act of evil done in the name of our peaceful religion and in our own backyard," said one unnamed Muslim cleric in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. "We mourn with Mr. Berg's family at this horrible loss. We renounce not only this act of violence, but all acts of terror."

The governments of all Arab League nations made a joint statement condemning the slaughter of Mr. Berg, and committing $100 billion toward the elimination of Al Qaeda and other Muslim terror groups.

"We pledge money, troops and intelligence resources in an all-out effort to end this scourge," the Arab league statement declared. "We apologize for our past failures to rein-in or arrest extremists in our ranks. As of today, we are turning the tables on the terrorists. Now, it's their turn to be afraid."


Link 
Take this article for what it may be worth.


----------



## Tippy Toes (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Spilly - that flick affected me the same way!  here some good advice though!  DONT WATCH IT NO MORE!
> 
> the solution is as I suggested, just plain start extrerminating them like a bad infestation of bugs!  If some of our allies were not concerned with lining their pockets we could put a better coalition together!  That is in my opinion the biggest problem, not enough of the willing to fight terrorism!
> ...



Our allies are too woosey for sure.  Very unfortunate.  Their day is coming.

I felt ill when I heard this, and saw the images on TV.  I don't know how much more I can take.


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## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

ScrappleFace, the daily news satire site, features 3-to-5 new stories most days. Use the box below to add your email address to the ScrappleFace notification list. You'll get an instant notice when we post a new story. It's free.


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## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *i apologize for posting such graphic material, but if we don't send a message to the world that we need a change of leadership, there's going to be some really bad shit going down!!!
> 
> get ready for dirty bombs, new enemies, and a living hell.  WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE GONE TO IRAQ AND GOT OURSELVES INTO THIS MESS!!!!!!!! *



You fucking scumbag piece of shit.  You can say that its our fault that they beheaded this guy with a straight face.  Your still thinking in your own political fantasy world where everything is a fucking game and Bush is the evil enemy.  This IS the reason we're over there because people like this exist and have hated our guts for years.  To say that getting rid of Bush is going to end the war on terror is so fucking naive it pains me to even read it.  

You have just LOST any credibility you ever had with me if you truly believe that its OUR FAULT THAT THIS GUY GOT HIS HEAD CUT OFF!!!!


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *
> 
> man!  what's it going to take before people realise what we are doing is NOT WORKING??!!! *



How the fuck do we know when you and your kind have been trying to undermind it every step of the way.  If im trying to play football and im the QB, how the hell can i play the game when my own players keep tackling me.

You make me sick.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MtnBiker _
> *Arab Street Erupts in Rage Over Beheading Video
> (2004-05-11) -- The so-called 'Arab Street' erupted in rage and grief today, as devoted Muslims crowded into public squares by the hundreds of thousands, in dozens of cities, to denounce the brutal videotaped beheading of American Nicholas Berg by Muslim extremists affiliated with Al Qaeda.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I 'm swallowing that with one big lump of sea salt, but it is encouraging....

Some people around here will have you thinking that anyone with a dark complexion or a camel as a vehicle or someone named Allah as a God deserves extermination.

Some people, I tell ya....


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## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Yeah, I 'm swallowing that with one big lump of sea salt, but it is encouraging....
> 
> Some people around here will have you thinking that anyone with a dark complexion or a camel as a vehicle or someone named Allah as a God deserves extermination.
> ...




COME ON GUYS THAT ARTICLE IS SATIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Yes, and I believe Bush will be removed from office.
> The uglier things get in Iraq the more the people of the United States will question their leader for his decision to invade Iraq. The people don't question the decision to go after terrorists, but they question Bush's bloodlust... *



What bloodlust.  You people have gone off the deep end.  How can you justify yourselves calling this PROOF that we have failed.  This is merely evidence of why we are there.  To say that something like this wouldnt have happened to one of our citizens overseas, or at one of our embassies around the world if we hadnt gone to Iraq is so fucking assinine that i can't believe you would even utter it.  

"Well its our fault for fighting back.  What were we thinking.  We need to just let them keep slowly eroding our culture and way of life to we are them"  

Thats what im hearing from you morons right now.

I'm so unbelieveably pissed off.  This situation is awful and to think that people half-heartedly condemn it and then further condemn America for our atrocities just drives me freaking crazy. 

You people are whats wrong with this country.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *brilliant.  why didn't i think of this?  BECAUSE IT WON'T HAPPEN, AND IT WOULDN'T WORK ANYWAY.  you're on the fringe, man.  coming at it from the totally WRONG angle. *



As are you.  You want us to change their mind set by being nice to them.  If a guy comes up to you and swears on his god that he must kill you, do you invite him in for tea?  No you either bring in the police or you waste him right then and there in self defense.


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## DKSuddeth (May 11, 2004)

Spilly, why can't you be consistent throughout your post? In this thread alone you've started to make a damn fine point 4 fucking times and then you screw it all up by outing yourself as a GOP/Bush hater and then trying to cover it up. 

Damn it dude, make the good point and leave the bashing bush out of it, you just might get a damn fine response from some of these people.


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## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

Great News !   Is the arab league offering it's support to us because it

fears the massive retaliation of our militery may "spill" over to their countries

       or

has been warned by our leaders of massive coalition forming

       or

we negotiated a deal with them and said we would be nice and peaceful wimps again (cut and run)


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## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dilloduck _
> *Great News !   Is the arab league offering it's support to us because it
> 
> fears the massive retaliation of our militery may "spill" over to their countries
> ...



AGAIN, THAT ARTICLE IS SATIRE aka A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *AGAIN, THAT ARTICLE IS SATIRE aka A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *



Thats what i ascertained when it was on a message board and the people responding said things like "Only if it were true".


----------



## dilloduck (May 11, 2004)

Cmon guys--just following thru with it----how do you think it would play out??


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## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dilloduck _
> *I'm enraged at the media and people who will not or cannot see that this is not the time for talking or trying to keep our holier than thou image. It's time to unite and kick ass with overwhelming power like the mideast has never seen. Can America do an "unamerican" thing to save ourselves. Bush HAS to ignore the media NOW and KILL THEM. *




I will have more respect for those who go balls to the walls than those who are pussy footing around. Arabs have no respect for wishy washy shit too. That is why they loathe America and use this propaganda because for one they can plead their case to dumb ass liberals and second, they can show the rest of the arab world how girly we are!


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## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> * Some people around here will have you thinking that anyone with a dark complexion or a camel as a vehicle or someone named Allah as a God deserves extermination.
> 
> Some people, I tell ya.... *


Who are you talking about?


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Hey NYC, what the hell is the matter with you?  did I miss something in this thread maybe or you suggesting this because I said that the terrorists should be exterminated like bugs?
> 
> If I did miss something I apologize, if it was directed to me let's talk about it! *


Hey...easy.: 
Nothing wrong with me. 
I've seen people condemn all muslims and rant on and on about killing towel-heads and such, in the extreme.

I'm just saying that although I take it that the article was satire, it's good to remember that not all Arabs are our enemy.

Or something...


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MtnBiker _
> *Who are you talking about? *



Okay, it seems you go guys want an example so... Big D has said this sort of thing. I wasn't speaking about most of you.

I just think that it is interesting that after today's tragedy someone would go on about "kicking Haji ass" and whatever. We are currently doing that! We have 125,000 troops over there doing that! Isn't this shit to be expected from these sicko fucks? 
And I'm sure there are many Arabs looking at the treatment of Iraqi prisoners the same way.


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Well my apologize then!  I apparently got this thread segment twisted up again!  carry on, sorry to remove you from your thread! *



No worries.
I think everyone is on edge after what happened in Iraq today.
Then again, I've been on edge for that past few years. I see more evil and bloodshed in our future, befure humanity reigns supreme once again...


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## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

Fair enough, well said.


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## krisy (May 11, 2004)

I know I'm late on this and haven't had time to read this whole thread. 

I was sitting in my car today when I heard of this and was so f'ing pissed I wanted to scream!!!!!!!Utterly sick and I hope we go in and kick the fuck out of these people. I have had it with being nice. 

First,the media shows the true assholes they are by blowing the Iraqi prisoner story out of proportion, They make it sound like this is a widespread thing and we are over there just being the lowlife Americans that we are. The thing is,most of those pics are portrayals of abuse,but not abuse. So the hell what if their culure was offended. I could give a rat's ass. This is their culture-cutting off innocent civilians heads.
So a few bad things happened over there. One guy was bit by a dog-ouch that must feel pretty bad compared to getting your head cut off. I say boohoo-I could care less. Even if there were a few things that happened like sodomy,rape whatever,it was still hardly anything compared to how many soldiers are over there.Although I do not fully agree with these type of actions,I am having trouble feeling for them.

I for one,am enraged about this and the past occurences with the Seals. I say-no more Mr. Nice Guy United States. This shit will never ever stop if we do not show more muscle. When i got home and say the tape of this man on Fox,I wanted to cry. I got even more pissed and wished on these people their worst nightmare. Feel sorry for the prisoners,I do not.

Now this man's family has to live the rest of their lives with this,and so does America, I say we start acting like the awesome country that we are and REALLY liberate this country.


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## Annie (May 11, 2004)

> video here


 by Spilly

It has an 'account suspended' now. Our media is keeping this from us in a way they did the full impact of 9/11.


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## krisy (May 11, 2004)

The media sucks ass! I don't like to curse so much,but I am fired up!!!!  What  ticks me off over more is that the media did not seem to be half as concerned over our POW's,and our Seals,and our men dying. Whatever happened to national pride? Oh that's right,the media has never had national pride(except for maybe Fox news)


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## krisy (May 11, 2004)

How in thee hell do you see the video?!!!


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## Annie (May 11, 2004)

> The video is quite disturbing! did you really wanna see it?


 by Sir Evil

Truth to tell, I'm sure I don't. I chose to avoid the graphic stills of Danny Perle. Yet, with the broohaha over the prison photos and the 'soon to be released' porno videos, I guess I do want to. I want to remind myself of the evilness that we as a country confront. 

Our media has done a dastardly good job of keeping American victims from 9/11 and other terror attacks sanitized. When they realized just how inflamed citizens were becoming after 9/11, they curtailed the graphics within 48 hours. On both following anniversaries they went out of their way to make us confront, "Why they hate us." Sorry, I don't buy that.


----------



## Bern80 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pale Rider _
> *The more of this I see and hear, the more I tend to become an isolationist. *



Me too.  Let's just spend the military money in defending our borders.  If some country wants our help in creating freedom/democracy or whatever, we can help. But i think we should stop taking the initiative, seeing the thanks we get.


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## krisy (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kathianne _
> *by Sir Evil
> 
> Truth to tell, I'm sure I don't. I chose to avoid the graphic stills of Danny Perle. Yet, with the broohaha over the prison photos and the 'soon to be released' porno videos, I guess I do want to. I want to remind myself of the evilness that we as a country confront.
> ...



Well said Kathi!! My husband wants to see it too. I asked him are you sure you want to and he said he thinks we all need to get a little more angry at what is happening to us. The media has total control of us. We only hear what they want us too,and that is scary,very scary.


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## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *The media sucks ass! I don't like to curse so much,but I am fired up!!!!  What  ticks me off over more is that the media did not seem to be half as concerned over our POW's,and our Seals,and our men dying. Whatever happened to national pride? Oh that's right,the media has never had national pride(except for maybe Fox news) *



Oh brother, it's a sad state of affairs when FoxNews is the ONLY respected news source. It's a source, but not the be all and end all.

Let's not blast the media too much, many like Daniel Pearl lose/have lost their lives by their efforts to bring us the unadulterated version of what is going on overseas.

Right?


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *until you hammer your partisan board cronies as well, this is total hypocrisy. *



That makes so much sense. 



> *i didn't say kerry would be able to handle it better, did i?. I SAID WE NEED A CHANGE! so far bush HAS FAILED.  PLEASE prove me wrong.  *



Well to prove you wrong is simple.

Two liberated nations.

Thousands of dead terrorists. 

Saddam Hussien and the Taliban no longer in power.

broad coalitions for bother liberations.

And this is only the war on terror. Thats not even touching the domestic side. Which includes

The greatest economic boom in 20 years. 

The greatest Education initiative ever.

What has Bush failed on?

Also why on earth would you vote to change things for the worse even if you wanted change?

People keeping their money.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Yes, and I believe Bush will be removed from office.
> The uglier things get in Iraq the more the people of the United States will question their leader for his decision to invade Iraq. The people don't question the decision to go after terrorists, but they question Bush's bloodlust... *



Bloodlust? what the heck are you talking about. The Bush administration just arranged one of the least bloodiest wars in history. They specifically tried not to incurr civilian damage as much as humanly possible.

And i still cant figure out why you guys dont understand that Iraq is part of the war on terror.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Bern80 _
> *Me too.  Let's just spend the military money in defending our borders.  If some country wants our help in creating freedom/democracy or whatever, we can help. But i think we should stop taking the initiative, seeing the thanks we get. *



I don't think we do these things for the thanks, neccesarily. But if anyone wants some, try hanging out around any immigration center when someone gets granted permission to stay in the United States where they MIGHT be free from indescriminate rape and torture.

Believe me, may are thankful.

BUT... we do seem a bit overextended now don't we?


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *why do you think they cut and run?  think seriously and unobjectively, if this is something you would really consider.  if you don't think this is a good idea, you and i are wasting our time.  *



Um no ones really cut and run, except for Spain and thats only because the socialist party was elected in. They are the equivalents of the Democrats and spend money on social programs then liberate nations.


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## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *
> Believe me, may are thankful.
> *



Many?: :


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Well it should serve as a little wake up call to those who think the war on terrorism is a waste of time!  These scummers will commit these acts at any given chance they can get!  I may be the only one who thinks so but these bastards are here to stay unless they are dealt with in form of lethal force! *



Don't worry your not the only one.  It pains me to see that actual Americans are still more outraged at our troops then these animals.  I didnt hear hillary or KErry or Kennedy coming out today to condemn this act.  

How can someone just not have enough moral clarity to realize that this was wrong?  How can they sit back after blasting Bush and Rumsfield for the Prison abuse thing and then be quiet on this?  What the hell are they waiting for?  Are they playing politics even with an issue like this?  Are they so out of touch with reality that they can't even show that they bleed by condemning this brutal act of terror for what it is?  You don't have to agree with the president or agree with the abuse or the prisoners to just come out and say, This is wrong and these people will die!  Instead they are sitting back and waiting to see if the polls say its ok to be outraged.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *bush STARTED the war in iraq.  he chose to forego diplomacy by not taking it to it's fullest extent, and he was intent on going to WAR, NO MATTER WHAT.*



Actually two people started the war in Iraq and its wasnt Bush.

1)Saddam Hussien for invading Kuwait and then not following through with his end of the ceasefire agreement. This war is on part a simple continuation of the Gulf War. 

2)Osama Bin Laden. For attacking the World Trade Center and Pentegon on 911 and showing us that we arent safe by doing nothing and hoping these evil men wont hit us. We have to go out into the world and change things for the better.

As for your diplomacy comment. Two problems with it. 

A)We were diplomatic with Iraq for 12 years. It was the Clinton administration which passed the resolution for Regime Change in 98. Bush was simply following through with the previous administrations resolution and with good reason. How much time has to pass before diplomacy is taken to its fullest extent?

B)The main problem with your statement is War is Diplomacy to its fullest extent. people tend to think of diplomacy as just talking, but its more than that its also exerting force.


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Oh brother, it's a sad state of affairs when FoxNews is the ONLY respected news source. It's a source, but not the be all and end all.
> 
> Let's not blast the media too much, many like Daniel Pearl lose/have lost their lives by their efforts to bring us the unadulterated version of what is going on overseas.
> ...



 Daniel Pearl has my respect and his family my condolenses(sp)?

This doesn't change the fact that the media are biased Liberals that only report what they want us to think. What? I'm not allowed to excercise my free speech now against the media because some of them have lost their lives.? If they go to Iraq,I due respect the fact that they are brave enough to go,but it is a decision they made,I didn't ask them to go.

Fox News is the only station that doesn't have Libs all over the place. They also give Bush a fair shake. So what should I watch-CNN? No thanks,I will stick with Fox so I can get a view of ALL sides,not just one.


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## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *How in thee hell do you see the video?!!! *



if you want to see it online i heard Sean Hannity has it on his website.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *Many?: : *


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *Daniel Pearl has my respect and his family my condolenses(sp)?
> 
> This doesn't change the fact that the media are biased Liberals that only report what they want us to think. What? I'm not allowed to excercise my free speech now against the media because some of them have lost their lives.? If they go to Iraq,I due respect the fact that they are brave enough to go,but it is a decision they made,I didn't ask them to go.
> ...



There are many other news sources out there. The AP is pretty unbiased. I'm compiling a list of others and I'll post it when it's done.


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## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *That will be of the biggest problems right there!  call me what you want but I see no need to be worrying about what damages are done!  It's war, and they have it coming!  they need to take the gloves off and send a uppercut! *



Im aware of that. I just think its ridiculous that these liberals  are ignoring the amazing lengths this administration has gone to not inflict civilian lives and say he has bloodlust. What the heck!? I mean these people tried to kill us and we are trying are hardest not to kill them because quite frankly even though its come to this we really dont want to kill them. If they would have left us alone to begin with we wouldnt be there! but 911 happened. So we are going to take care of terrorism wherever it is. 

Do you people understand this. These terrorists dont want to negociate. They dont want peace. They dont want to be left alone. They want us dead. They want our culture obliterated. They want our freedom destroyed and their tyranical rule imposed on us. We have to fight them and the regimes that support the like Aghanistan, Iran, Iraq, North Korea. Etc.  These nations are their supply lines. We have to strike against them and bring freedom to these places if we are going to succeed. Complain all you want but if we dont do this we will be dead. maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday and someday soon if we arent dilligent in liberating these places. 

I dont like seeing people die any more than the rest of you people. But im not going to leave my children a world thats worse off than when i recieved it. its not going to happen. If i have to fight, if i have to die to do it. so be it.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by remie _
> *Thanks to the media blowing Iraqi prisoner treatment completely out of proportion, shit like this happens
> 
> 
> ...






I knew it. It took you guys about three posts, and you're already turning the beheading of an innocent American citizen into a conservative vs. liberal debate, way to go guys, I'm sure his parents appreciate it.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *This is fucking ridiculous.  These are th kinds of animals that are in those jails.  So i don't have a bleeding heart for them and their shame culture.  I still think our soldiers actions were wrong because it hurts the militaries image, but more and more it seems these bastards deserved worse. *




How do you know what kind of people are in these jails?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SPIKESMYGOD _
> *As I knew, it took CNN nearly half an hour to cover it, too busy with their wall-to-wall Abu Ghraib "atrocities." And, of course, they are blaming us for not making a deal with these butchers.
> 
> Yeah, the LMM is just a myth........RIGHT! *




Ahh yes, another proud patriot turning the death of an innocent American citizen into a liberal vs. conservative issue! Way to honor his memory!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Avatar4321 _
> *Im aware of that. I just think its ridiculous that these liberals  are ignoring the amazing lengths this administration has gone to not inflict civilian lives and say he has bloodlust. What the heck!? I mean these people tried to kill us and we are trying are hardest not to kill them because quite frankly even though its come to this we really dont want to kill them. If they would have left us alone to begin with we wouldnt be there! but 911 happened. So we are going to take care of terrorism wherever it is.
> 
> Do you people understand this. These terrorists dont want to negociate. They dont want peace. They dont want to be left alone. They want us dead. They want our culture obliterated. They want our freedom destroyed and their tyranical rule imposed on us. We have to fight them and the regimes that support the like Aghanistan, Iran, Iraq, North Korea. Etc.  These nations are their supply lines. We have to strike against them and bring freedom to these places if we are going to succeed. Complain all you want but if we dont do this we will be dead. maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday and someday soon if we arent dilligent in liberating these places.
> ...




What amazing lengths! 28 kiltons of explosives, yep, we sure saved a lot of civilian lives by dropping bombs!

These people tried to kill us? How many Iraqis were trying to kill Americans the day before we invaded Iraq? Any??

Do your children need an entire world?


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## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

It will be a double for the day.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

Hey everyone ligthen up on spidy.....He has to spank his monkey somehow and if this is the only enjoyment he gets who are we to discourage the only sex he gets?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Hey dont even start your shit in this thread spidey!  if you cant do that get the Fuck Off My Board!!!! *




Sir Evil, I just don't understand why some neocons have to use the beheading of an American as an excuse to attack the media and liberals, it just seems like a shame to me. There's all sorts of ways to attack the media and liberals without using the beheading of an American, isn't there? All I think is perhaps we should be talking about solutions to the problem, though we may disagree completely on the best solution, using it as an excuse to attack one another doesn't get as anywhere.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

In fact I am willing to start a charity thread for spidy. I would be willing to donate a tube of lube. What do you all think? You in?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Hey everyone ligthen up on spidy.....He has to spank his monkey somehow and if this is the only enjoyment he gets who are we to discourage the only sex he gets? *


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

Just saw the video. Sick tards. There is no doubt in my mind, if we don't settle this in Iraq, the thing will lead to a religious war, which is what the extremists want.

TG there are those in Baghdad and Basra marching today and yesterday. Sadr must go.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *In fact I am willing to start a charity thread for spidy. I would be willing to donate a tube of lube. What do you all think? You in? *




Save it for yourself, a female friend of mine told me your husband doesn't last long enough, you'll need it for when he's done.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Sir Evil, I just don't understand why some neocons have to use the beheading of an American as an excuse to attack the media and liberals, it just seems like a shame to me. There's all sorts of ways to attack the media and liberals without using the beheading of an American, isn't there? All I think is perhaps we should be talking about solutions to the problem, though we may disagree completely on the best solution, using it as an excuse to attack one another doesn't get as anywhere. *




Dude!


Do you always have an intellectual hard on for bashing others who are venting? Or is that domain strictly only for geeks who cant get off any other way?


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

Hey Spidey,No one is making it about Dem's or Rep's.......people are upset and angry and not happy that the media has tried to make it look as if our soldiers resemble these terrorist pieces of shit.Our soldiers weren't even close. 

We are honoring his memory...by getting angry and not wanting this for anyone else. Soooo.....shove it up your a$$!!!


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Hey everyone ligthen up on spidy.....He has to spank his monkey somehow and if this is the only enjoyment he gets who are we to discourage the only sex he gets? *






 :clap1:  :clap1:


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Sir Evil, I just don't understand why some neocons have to use the beheading of an American as an excuse to attack the media and liberals, it just seems like a shame to me. There's all sorts of ways to attack the media and liberals without using the beheading of an American, isn't there? All I think is perhaps we should be talking about solutions to the problem, though we may disagree completely on the best solution, using it as an excuse to attack one another doesn't get as anywhere. *



Oh the irony of watching you attack conservatives by critisizing their "Attacks" on liberals and the media.

The media is biased. its a fact. Every one in life has a bias. To try and pretend not to is deception. This beheading is a clear example of the liberal bias. They go on and on about about these none lethal abuses by the prison guards and virtiually nothing about an american getting Decapitated by the Terrorists the left claims arent even involved in Iraq. This is a double standard and open game to critisize. You may not like pointing out the medias bias to the left and have to resort to generalized attacks to obfuscate the issue, but that doesnt change that its a valid issue. Especially with something as grotesque as this.

Oh, practice what you preach and people might take you seriously.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Save it for yourself, a female friend of mine told me your husband doesn't last long enough, you'll need it for when he's done. *




You are just jealous cause I dont fuck you too! I have room for you say Thursday next March. Name the time and place and I will be there with a strap on!


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

That's funny Spidy,a male friend of mine told me that YOU don't last long enough...


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

FY Spidey. I'm not a neo-con, but rather a libertarian. It wouldn't matter if I was a liberal, in some ways I probably am. These bastards deserve to die.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

I think people are way too effected by the media. Any "intelligent" person knows that the average American soldier is not about raping and torturing prsioners and/or innocents. 

However, sick shit went down in Abu (that was initially reported in January!!!) and this is not only one HUGE P.R. problem but worth discussing and getting to the bottom of.

And then there is what happened to day. A cowardly act by the same sick fucks who have been killing us in our embassy's, on American soil, in Iraq, etc.

Fuck the media.
Use your brain.
My 2 cents...


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *You are just jealous cause I dont fuck you too! I have room for you say Thursday next March. Name the time and place and I will be there with a strap on! *



Honey, I can't be jealous of you, you're not mine, what you are thinking of is envy. Keep your strapon for use with your perverted husband, me, my woman, and my Buck Rogers is all I need.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

Spidey, try diplomacy.
Honey catches more flies than vinegar...


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

I agree Flasher,but unfortunately,the media is the only way to get our news. Then we have to pick and choose what to bleieve,and what is and isn't biased. How do ever know the "real" story?


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

do we have to put up with this crap?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *Hey Spidey,No one is making it about Dem's or Rep's.......people are upset and angry and not happy that the media has tried to make it look as if our soldiers resemble these terrorist pieces of shit.Our soldiers weren't even close.
> 
> We are honoring his memory...by getting angry and not wanting this for anyone else. Soooo.....shove it up your a$$!!! *




Hmm, and when did the media try to make our soldiers look as if they were beheading innocent people? Do you have a source that says that, other than maybe Al Jazeera? No? OK, then I guess you just made it up because apparently you'd rather attack the media as if it were somehow _their_  fault and not the fault of terrorists thugs.


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

Can't you temporarily ban this asshole? It's like trying to have a serious conversation and someone keeps butting in asking you to pass the butter.

Spidey: Go to your fucking room and shut up!


----------



## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Hope your next post is an apology! *



LISTEN UP SpidermanTuba!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Spidey, try diplomacy.
> Honey catches more flies than vinegar... *


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *I agree Flasher,but unfortunately,the media is the only way to get our news. Then we have to pick and choose what to bleieve,and what is and isn't biased. How do ever know the "real" story? *



Check, double-check, and triple-check.
I try and read my local paper, the NYT(ahem...sources), various online sources plus I watch bits of Fox and CNN and PBS.

That way I get a sense of where the "middle" story is and who might be stretching the truth.

But you're right, we rely on these people for news (and sometimes pay for it) and they need to be accountable.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *You are just jealous cause I dont fuck you too! I have room for you say Thursday next March. Name the time and place and I will be there with a strap on! *



Hey put me down minus the strap on.  Ill bring my own tool, lol.  JK.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Hope your next post is an apology! *





He is too busy dreaming of me blowing him. And yes Spidy you still want me to fuck you!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Hope your next post is an apology! *




An apology for what? For not starting a sexual insult hurling contest?


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Check, double-check, and triple-check.
> I try and read my local paper, the NYT(ahem...sources), various online sources plus I watch bits of Fox and CNN and PBS.
> 
> ...



But to an avergae person that watches the 6 oclock news and thats all, what do they think?


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

I said they make it look as if our guys RESEMBLE the terrorists. I guess it is a matter of opinion,just like your looney toon views. If the media hasn't been hard on our guys,then why is it that is all we have heard about in the last 5 or 6 days? Is there nothing else going on in the world? Get a grip. They are harder on our guys than the terrorists. Yes,my opinion.

Don't spin my words with your childish jabber. We all know the media goes one way-even them .I might not go so far as to say it's their fault,but then again,their constant coverage is what pissed these MF ers off.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Hey put me down minus the strap on.  Ill bring my own tool, lol.  JK. *





I could fit you in say before March? I make special preferences to those I like and who bring their own tools.


----------



## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *I could fit you in say before March? I make special preferences to those I like and who bring their own tools. *


Damn, you guys need to get your own thread. :


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

Patriot is waiting Spidy........


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *Patriot is waiting Spidy........ *



I think Patriot will be waiting a while unfortunately.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *But to an avergae person that watches the 6 oclock news and thats all, what do they think? *



Oh what a shame to be average... 

I can't really speak for the average person--I'm only going to speak for myself--but I would hope all are familiar with the saying "don't believe everything you hear" and "take that with a grain of salt" and "don't listen to him he's a fucking idiot"...

In general the six-oclock news tells you the weather, lottery numbers, who got shot, how close the Dow is to 10,000 and the biggest news story(s) overseas which are now Abu and the beheading as well as the continued battle with Al-Sadr and his forces. I don't think there is too much room for bias in that half-hour.


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

Is he chasing the Green Goblin? Where did he go? Maybe scaling a wall somewhere!


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MtnBiker _
> *Damn, you guys need to get your own thread. : *



Their own room... : 
Caqn I watch?
All this talk has me in a frenzy here at the law library... an hour more til I'm out of work. This schedule sucks.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Oh what a shame to be average...
> 
> I can't really speak for the average person--I'm only going to speak for myself--but I would hope all are familiar with the saying "don't believe everything you hear" and "take that with a grain of salt" and "don't listen to him he's a fucking idiot"...
> ...



Fine the 7 oclock national news then with Dan rather and Tom Brokass.  Not everyone knows that the media is biased.  Some people honestly feel that what they see is what really is happening.  Obviously none of us here do, but that doesnt mena that alot of people can tell the difference between facts and the spin.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *I could fit you in say before March? I make special preferences to those I like and who bring their own tools. *



My tool is home grown and powerful.  I'd think you'd enjoy it very VERY much, lol.


----------



## Lizzy (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *you my friend started the shit!  this was a serious thread till you fucked it up!  DO IT!  and it will end there!   if not you will lose! *


He may have started it, but they are continuing it.
I think everyone needs to review what they are saying. You can't attack one and let the other's continue with their own B.S.
The attacks are not tolerated by ANYONE!


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

So true,insein.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *I said they make it look as if our guys RESEMBLE the terrorists. I guess it is a matter of opinion,just like your looney toon views. If the media hasn't been hard on our guys,then why is it that is all we have heard about in the last 5 or 6 days? Is there nothing else going on in the world? Get a grip. They are harder on our guys than the terrorists. Yes,my opinion.
> 
> Don't spin my words with your childish jabber. We all know the media goes one way-even them .I might not go so far as to say it's their fault,but then again,their constant coverage is what pissed these MF ers off. *




Tell me krisy, which would piss you off more, if your own children decided to play mailbox baseball, or if some other kids decided to play mailbox baseball? 

The human rights abuses in our "detainment" camps is a _big deal_, or at least, the President and Donald Rumsfeld seem to think so. We already _know_ who the terrorists are and what they do, but we only found out recently that part of who we are includes at least a handful of human rights abuses. That's a huge deal. What's more surprising, that human rights violations are occuring in _American_  run prisons, or that civilian contractors who were set down in the middle of a warzone with terrorists running all over the place are being murdered?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *He is too busy dreaming of me blowing him. And yes Spidy you still want me to fuck you! *




This silly contest is ending right here.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Hey everyone ligthen up on spidy.....He has to spank his monkey somehow and if this is the only enjoyment he gets who are we to discourage the only sex he gets? *




This Sir Evil, is where the mudslinging began. My only mistake was to bring myself down to its level, and for that, I apologize.


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Tell me krisy, which would piss you off more, if your own children decided to play mailbox baseball, or if some other kids decided to play mailbox baseball?
> 
> The human rights abuses in our "detainment" camps is a big deal, or at least, the President and Donald Rumsfeld seem to think so. We already know who the terrorists are and what they do, but we only found out recently that part of who we are includes at least a handful of human rights abuses. That's a huge deal. What's more surprising, that human rights violations are occuring in American  run prisons, or that civilian contractors who were set down in the middle of a warzone with terrorists running all over the place are being murdered? *



So our soldiers are human. Maybe they are tired of seeing this crapola go on. Why aren't they reporting on the thousands of soldiers that are doing a great job? Oh -it's because it doesn't get ratings,and it makes Bush look good. Some of the stuff we did was wrong,and some of it,I could care less about. Humiliation-nothing more.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Tell me krisy, which would piss you off more, if your own children decided to play mailbox baseball, or if some other kids decided to play mailbox baseball?
> 
> The human rights abuses in our "detainment" camps is a big deal, or at least, the President and Donald Rumsfeld seem to think so. We already know who the terrorists are and what they do, but we only found out recently that part of who we are includes at least a handful of human rights abuses. That's a huge deal. What's more surprising, that human rights violations are occuring in American  run prisons, or that civilian contractors who were set down in the middle of a warzone with terrorists running all over the place are being murdered? *



IF anything this beheading should remind us just who it is we are fighting over there.  The reason we are in Iraq is to stop groups like these from receiving funds, weapons and amnesty so that they can continue to kill our innocent civilians.

Your continuing to fucking cry about the evils of America which in comparison make us look like fucking kindergarten playground kids compared to these animals who we are fighting.  You keep trying to bring us down from the inside and aide the enemy by destabilizing our country with your assinine remarks of isolated incidents of humiliation and your unfounded generalizations about killing civilians intentionally.

You sir are on the same level of humanity as the terrorists if you think the way they do.  By continuing to put out that America is evil and wrong you are doing just that.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *In fact I am willing to start a charity thread for spidy. I would be willing to donate a tube of lube. What do you all think? You in? *




And did I reply to Patriot's first barrage of mud? Nope, it took two to convince me to sink down to her level.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Fine the 7 oclock national news then with Dan rather and Tom Brokass.  Not everyone knows that the media is biased.  Some people honestly feel that what they see is what really is happening.  Obviously none of us here do, but that doesnt mena that alot of people can tell the difference between facts and the spin. *



Hmm, yeah people are stupid.
I'm not sure wher eyou're going with this.
Back to the media sucks?
All I can do is vary my sources and try not to propagate bad intel, to use a military term. The media are only human. Last poll I saw(take it for what it's worth) shows thast the majority of AMericans don't support the war or Bush, so it wouldn't surprise me to see this slant in the media.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Hmm, yeah people are stupid.
> I'm not sure wher eyou're going with this.
> Back to the media sucks?
> All I can do is vary my sources and try not to propagate bad intel, to use a military term. The media are only human. Last poll I saw(take it for what it's worth) shows thast the majority of AMericans don't support the war or Bush, so it wouldn't surprise me to see this slant in the media. *



Thats great for you and for me.  We're intelligent enough to know that the media slants the news or reports what they want seen.  So to get the full news we need other sources.  

They doesnt mean that what they are doing is right.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *So our soldiers are human. Maybe they are tired of seeing this crapola go on. Why aren't they reporting on the thousands of soldiers that are doing a great job? Oh -it's because it doesn't get ratings,and it makes Bush look good. Some of the stuff we did was wrong,and some of it,I could care less about. Humiliation-nothing more. *




Is that all you want to hear? That things are going great? This is a warzone, and in warzones, there are more bad things happening than good things. If you'd prefer to pretend there aren't horrible things going in Iraq, watch FOX News, and enjoy pretending war is a great thing.

Our soldiers are human. Terrorists are human, too, does that excuse work for them? I can think of a few other humans, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and just for kicks, Arkansas Slick Willie!


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *This Sir Evil, is where the mudslinging began. My only mistake was to bring myself down to its level, and for that, I apologize. *




Oh please!!!!!! 


You loved every moment of the mud wrestling. Any kind of "look at me" type attention you can get is that which you desire.


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Is that all you want to hear? That things are going great? This is a warzone, and in warzones, there are more bad things happening than good things. If you'd prefer to pretend there aren't horrible things going in Iraq, watch FOX News, and enjoy pretending war is a great thing.
> 
> Our soldiers are human. Terrorists are human, too, does that excuse work for them? I can think of a few other humans, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and just for kicks, Arkansas Slick Willie! *



I want to know EVERYTHING going on!!! There are too many channels that I cannot get that. Yes,I want to hear good things. Do you not think that the parents of our men would like to hear how good of a job their boys are doing? The problem is,we hear nothing but bad,when there is good!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *IF anything this beheading should remind us just who it is we are fighting over there*


* 

Unlike you sir, I don't need to be reminded of who are fighting over there, I'm pretty damn sure of who we are fighting. If you need constant reminding, I suggest you write a note on your hand in permanent ink.





			Your continuing to fucking cry about the evils of America which in comparison make us look like fucking kindergarten playground kids compared to these animals who we are fighting.  You keep trying to bring us down from the inside and aide the enemy by destabilizing our country with your assinine remarks of isolated incidents of humiliation and your unfounded generalizations about killing civilians intentionally.

You sir are on the same level of humanity as the terrorists if you think the way they do.  By continuing to put out that America is evil and wrong you are doing just that.
		
Click to expand...

*

    Brilliant neocon rhetoric! To bad its all


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Their own room... :
> Caqn I watch?
> All this talk has me in a frenzy here at the law library... an hour more til I'm out of work. This schedule sucks. *




I posted one for you here:



http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=83912#post83912


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Is that all you want to hear? That things are going great? This is a warzone, and in warzones, there are more bad things happening that good things. If you'd prefer to pretend there aren't horrible things going in Iraq, watch FOX News, and enjoy pretending war is a great thing.
> 
> Our soldiers are human. Terrorists are human, too, does that excuse work for them? I can think of a few other humans, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and just for kicks, Arkansas Slick Willie! *



You continue to want to have it both ways.  

We're bombing targets in a war.  Spidey says "no your killing civilians intentionally."

We're doing lots of good by helping rebuild Iraq for the people.  Spidey says "No its a warzone and there arent any good things worth reporting."

And i think the term human is very usely used when refering to these animals.  The look like humans but they most certainly don't act like humans.  There isnt a shred of human compassion within their bodies.  To casually cut the head off of a innocent non-combatant DOESNT EVEN COMPARE TO STRIPPING PRISONERS NAKED AND HUMILIATING THEM!!!!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *I want to know EVERYTHING going on!!! There are too many channels that I cannot get that. Yes,I want to hear good things. Do you not think that the parents of our men would like to hear how good of a job their boys are doing? The problem is,we hear nothing but bad,when there is good! *




And how would you know there is good, if you hear nothing but bad?


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *IF anything this beheading should remind us just who it is we are fighting over there.  The reason we are in Iraq is to stop groups like these from receiving funds, weapons and amnesty so that they can continue to kill our innocent civilians.
> 
> Your continuing to fucking cry about the evils of America which in comparison make us look like fucking kindergarten playground kids compared to these animals who we are fighting.  You keep trying to bring us down from the inside and aide the enemy by destabilizing our country with your assinine remarks of isolated incidents of humiliation and your unfounded generalizations about killing civilians intentionally.
> ...



Not that Spidey needs a lawyer, shit he has spidey-sense and a large power-tool or something, but did he really say ALL that? Addressing what happened in Abu in the context of the war is not anti-American I don't think. Contrarily, what those SELECT soldiers did was ani-American. The fact that some of these atrocities were reported in January and kept secret...that's anti-American. 

in fact, this very war and the next two decades may re-shape what it is to be American? (that's my vague statement of the day)


----------



## krisy (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *And how would you know there is good, if you hear nothing but bad? *



Because I have heard it from my husband's cousin who was there!!!Is that proof enough for ya? You can't honestly sit here and tell me that nothing good has come from this. People have been given freedon...nuff said.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Unlike you sir, I don't need to be reminded of who are fighting over there, I'm pretty damn sure of who we are fighting. If you need constant reminding, I suggest you write a note on your hand in permanent ink.
> 
> 
> ...



You have proven how much Bullshit you push buddy.  You claim that we're are evil for bombing targets as carefully as humanly possible to try and eliminate civilian casualties as intentionally killing civilians.  But you could give 2 shits about the life of an unborn fetus or the lives of those carrying them.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6372

I take it back.  You are worse then the terrorists.  Terrorists have the excuse that they believe that God is going to give them 50 virgins and an eternal hard on in heaven for killing us.  You simply want to undermine everything that America stands for by creating conspiracy theories out of minor incidents and blatantly calling the President and soldiers of our nation every derogatory name in the book all while they sit back and take your abuse and defend your ungrateful ass by the aforementioned terrorist scum.

Your are truly a piece of Living Breathing Shit.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Not that Spidey needs a lawyer, shit he has spidey-sense and a large power-tool or something, but did he really say ALL that? Addressing what happened in Abu in the context of the war is not anti-American I don't think. Contrarily, what those SELECT soldiers did was ani-American. The fact that some of these atrocities were reported in January and kept secret...that's anti-American.
> 
> in fact, this very war and the next two decades may re-shape what it is to be American? (that's my vague statement of the day) *



From what i understood the media knew about all this in January as well. they just didnt have pictures, when they did they ran with us.


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

Hey Krisy, I have some good news links:

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/05/marine_sergeant.html

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/05/captain_brian_c.html

good pics here:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/05/spirit_of_ameri.html

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/05/marine_capt_dom.html


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Not that Spidey needs a lawyer, shit he has spidey-sense and a large power-tool or something, but did he really say ALL that? Addressing what happened in Abu in the context of the war is not anti-American I don't think. Contrarily, what those SELECT soldiers did was ani-American. The fact that some of these atrocities were reported in January and kept secret...that's anti-American.
> 
> in fact, this very war and the next two decades may re-shape what it is to be American? (that's my vague statement of the day) *



They werent kept secret.  The reason the media even knew about it was because the military told them there was an investigation ongoing.  They were keeping the information under wraps until ALL OF THE INFO WAS GATHERED so these soldiers could receive a fair trial as part of their constitutional rights.  

What they did was completely morally wrong.  But in their situation, if i had just watched my fellow soldier die in battle from one of these prisoners guns, I'd hate to think of what i'd be capable of doing to them.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *Because I have heard it from my husband's cousin who was there!!!Is that proof enough for ya? You can't honestly sit here and tell me that nothing good has come from this. People have been given freedon...nuff said. *




Actually even stupid Sean Penn "penned" (haha) an article that he was amazed at the changes from one year to the next from his visit. He went on to say that their has been many improvements since America "invaded" Iraq. 


http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/26/ple.penn.reuty/



http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-09.htm


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *
> 
> Your are truly a piece of Living Breathing Shit. *



Not very Obiwan of you, but I guess sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. (and that's not a racial reference Big D so go back to humping sheep and lay off)


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *They werent kept secret.  The reason the media even knew about it was because the military told them there was an investigation ongoing.  They were keeping the information under wraps until ALL OF THE INFO WAS GATHERED so these soldiers could receive a fair trial as part of their constitutional rights.
> 
> What they did was completely morally wrong.  But in their situation, if i had just watched my fellow soldier die in battle from one of these prisoners guns, I'd hate to think of what i'd be capable of doing to them. *



Hmm.... well if you'd sodomize a prisoner with a lightbulb then you're pretty fucked up.

I thought that type of stuff was left to police officers in Brooklyn. Boom!


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *But let's not forget that Sean Penn is one serios asshole! *




Yeah but even THAT asshole could not take away the fact that America made good in Iraq.


----------



## nycflasher (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *But let's not forget that Sean Penn is one serios asshole! *



I think of him more as an AMAZING actor, but I suppose he has his moments, mainly with the press.


----------



## Patriot (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Hmm.... well if you'd sodomize a prisoner with a lightbulb then you're pretty fucked up.
> 
> I thought that type of stuff was left to police officers in Brooklyn. Boom! *




Hmmm...You never know...Some of those prisoners could be lying and like that light bulb. In fact some of those prisoners could be sticking a ligthbulb up their own ass.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Hey I would be the first to agree that we have done some serious good thus far!  I would just never give Penn any credit for saying so! *



Yes but it shows that if a leftwing nut like Penn can say good has been accomplished, then perhaps good has been accomplished.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Not very Obiwan of you, but I guess sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. (and that's not a racial reference Big D so go back to humping sheep and lay off) *



I calls em likes i sees em.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by krisy _
> *Because I have heard it from my husband's cousin who was there!!!Is that proof enough for ya? You can't honestly sit here and tell me that nothing good has come from this. People have been given freedon...nuff said. *



Well I don't know anyone coming back from Iraq yet, but I still know that we're building schools, retoring utilities, training police, organizing an Iraqi Army, and many other good things, and you know where I heard it from? The media. Which is why it strikes me as odd you would accuse the media of never reporting good news, because they have reported good news. So either you are a liar, or you don't watch the news to often.


People have been given freedom? You consider a society where suspected criminals are rounded up off the streets and thrown is prisons where they are sexually humiliated and psycologically tortured a free society? You consider a society where its not safe to walk on the stree in the _day_  time a free society? A society with a government appointed by a foreign sovereign power is a free society? If you think that is freedom, I suggest you do some reading.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Actually even stupid Sean Penn "penned" (haha) an article that he was amazed at the changes from one year to the next from his visit. He went on to say that their has been many improvements since America "invaded" Iraq.
> http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-09.htm *



Wow. Sean Penn can write?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *You have proven how much Bullshit you push buddy.  You claim that we're are evil for bombing targets . *




Please, before we move on, I want you to quote me saying I think we're evil for bombing targets. Until then, I refuse to particpate in a conversation with an opponent whose only strategy is to fabricate lies and half truths about my belief system. Thank you, and have a nice day.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *True - but then again I knew that anyway! *



As have we all, but maybe other leftwing nuts we'll be able to understand when Penn speaks their leftwingese language and reports the good news.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Please, before we move on, I want you to quote me saying I think we're evil for bombing targets. Until then, I refuse to particpate in a conversation with an opponent whose only strategy is to fabricate lies and half truths about my belief system. Thank you, and have a nice day. *



How many times have you said we are intentionally killing civilians?  Your so wound up in semantics that you dont even know what you mean anymore.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

EVIL FUCK IT! 86 THIS PIECE OF SHIT JETHRO!

Jethro you fucked up today! You are an un-American piece of shit, yeah thats right unfuckingAmerican. You work for the Pentagon too! Thats right I know, makes me feel real good that we got a faggot ass mole right in the midst of the shit! How any American today could utter anything even remotely against his country is beyond me. I'm sure that guys family would love to hear your stupid ass words of encouragement. 

Why don't you go have sex with some New Orleans whore, get AIDS and slink quietly off into the special hell that they have for traitors. Hell maybe i'll even see you there. Until then fuck off and don't let me catching you talking shit or i'll fill that fucking pm box of yours up and also your email with so much spam you'll shit bricks! Think I won't do it, try me!


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

I am fucking pissed right now! You know that scene in Goodfellas where they have the card game and afterwards Jimmy, Murray, Tommy and that other guy are gonna go for donuts and Pesci sticks a big fucking needle up through the base of Murray's skull and clips him? Oh boy i'd love to see Jethro in person right now, i'd also go to Lowes and get me a big fat bag of lime and a shovel.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

I9 just pm'd that fuck and told him to come out of hiding pronto. What happened to the other dirt bag Spilly? Thats another one that burns me up! Still thinks negotiation and winning hearts and minds is the answer. When will these people learn?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *How many times have you said we are intentionally killing civilians?  Your so wound up in semantics that you dont even know what you mean anymore. *




And where did I say America was evil? Oh, nowhere? Oh, OK then, why did you say I said it? Because you're a liar? Oh, Ok, I already knew that.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

Lets go Jethro! I see you looking at the thread, lets make your last night here memorable!


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

We're all a little upset tonight. I thought I couldn't get madder than 9/11, I was wrong.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *And I dont think I recall anyone stating that there would be instant results!  Time is the essense here! *




Well, let's not say they have freedom, if they don't have freedom then, shall we?


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *And where did I say America was evil? Oh, nowhere? Oh, OK then, why did you say I said it? Because you're a liar? Oh, Ok, I already knew that. *



Oh no asswipe you've at least got enough smarts not to say it out loud but you think that most of us are stupid and can't read between your smoke and mirrors. You're a joke!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *EVIL FUCK IT! 86 THIS PIECE OF SHIT JETHRO!
> 
> Jethro you fucked up today! You are an un-American piece of shit, yeah thats right unfuckingAmerican. You work for the Pentagon too! Thats right I know, makes me feel real good that we got a faggot ass mole right in the midst of the shit! How any American today could utter anything even remotely against his country is beyond me. I'm sure that guys family would love to hear your stupid ass words of encouragement.
> ...




This load of horse shit is what you bothered me in my private mail about? If you haven't taken that valium yet, I suggest you do it now, you need to calm down.

New Orleans whores are quite nice, actually, though I'd recommend a condom.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *Oh no asswipe you've at least got enough smarts not to say it out loud but you think that most of us are stupid and can't read between your smoke and mirrors. You're a joke! *



You read what you want to read in what I say because it helps you to avoid real issues and it makes you feel better about yourself.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kathianne _
> *We're all a little upset tonight. I thought I couldn't get madder than 9/11, I was wrong. *



Usually when I quote a lady I don't use harsh language but anybody who doesn't immediately show me murderous outrage tonight should have their balls ripped out through their mouth(Jethro, Spilly)


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

This is a bit off topic, but speaking of an assumption of stupid:

http://www.lt-smash.us/archives/002881.html#002881

DANIEL L. DOW of Fremont, California was upset with his Congressman, Pete Stark. So he sent him a fax:

I am appalled that you voted against today's House Resolution 627, Roll Number 150. This measure would have shown publicly that you condemn the abuse of the prisoners in Iraq while simultaneously commend the service of the fine men and women who are serving in Iraq that bring honor to the uniform that they wear and to the Nation that they serve...
Much to Dow's surprise, Congressman Stark called back a few hours later, and left a message on his machine:

Dan, this is Congressman Pete Stark, and I just got your fax. And you dont know what youre talking about. So if you care about enlisted people, you wouldnt have voted for that thing either. 
But, probably someone put you up to this, and Im not sure who it was, but I doubt if you could spell half the words in your letter, and somebody wrote it for you. So I dont pay much attention to it. 

But Ill call you back later, and let you tell me more about why you think youre such a great God-damned hero. And why you think that this general and the Defense Department who forced these poor enlisted guys to do what they did, shouldnt be held to account. Thats the issue. 

So if you want to stick it to a bunch of enlisted guys, have your way. But if you want to get to the bottom of the people who FORCED this AWFUL program in Iraq, then you should understand more about it than you obviously do. 


Dow, who is himself a Staff Sergeant in the US Army, sent the recording to San Francisco talk radio station KSFO, who have been playing it on the air. Over, and over, and over again.

Good luck in the upcoming election, Congressman.

(Hat tip: Noble Eagle)


Posted by Smash on May 11, 2004 | Link | Iraq | Liberty | TrackBack


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *I am fucking pissed right now! You know that scene in Goodfellas where they have the card game and afterwards Jimmy, Murray, Tommy and that other guy are gonna go for donuts and Pesci sticks a big fucking needle up through the base of Murray's skull and clips him? Oh boy i'd love to see Jethro in person right now, i'd also go to Lowes and get me a big fat bag of lime and a shovel. *




Sir Evil, am I to take it that when I've been around here long enough and have earned respect, it will be acceptable for me issue veiled threats on another posters life?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *I am really not interested in the amount of freedom there at the moment, it will come in time!  I am interested in send rockets up the asses of those friggin terrorists! *




I'd bet a lot of Iraqi women and children are interested in the lack of freedom they have now.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *This load of horse shit is what you bothered me in my private mail about? If you haven't taken that valium yet, I suggest you do it now, you need to calm down.
> 
> New Orleans whores are quite nice, actually, though I'd recommend a condom. *



Do your superiors at the Pentagon know you hate your country so much? Also you don't tell me to calm down I tell you to calm down or in this case that I may arrange for you to be 86'd tonight.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kathianne _
> *We're all a little upset tonight. I thought I couldn't get madder than 9/11, I was wrong. *



im not sure what emotions im feeling. Im angry. im angry over the act. Im angry over the fact that these people shouldnt be our enemies. That if they just left us alone we wouldnt have to hunt them down. Im angry that so many people have to die to stop these murderers. Im angry that there are people in country trying to undermine our efforts to stop these killers.

But oddly enough the overwhelming emotion im feeling right now is pity. What a waste of human life.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kathianne _
> *We're all a little upset tonight. I thought I couldn't get madder than 9/11, I was wrong. *




You are actually madder tonight than you were the day 3000 Americans were murdered?


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *I'd bet a lot of Iraqi women and children are interested in the lack of freedom they have now. *



So lets see you think that Iraqis have less freedom now than they did under Sadaam. Are you reall this much of a mental invalid or do you try really hard?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *Do your superiors at the Pentagon know you hate your country so much? Also you don't tell me to calm down I tell you to calm down or in this case that I may arrange for you to be 86'd tonight. *




And would that mean I'd never have to hear from you again?


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *And where did I say America was evil? Oh, nowhere? Oh, OK then, why did you say I said it? Because you're a liar? Oh, Ok, I already knew that. *



Whatever you say LBS.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *You are actually madder tonight than you were the day 3000 Americans were murdered? *



Hey i'm sure that I saw you on 9/11 dancing around the streets of the west bank with a Palestinian flag. Don't feign your caring here, we don't buy it.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *So lets see you think that Iraqis have less freedom now than they did under Sadaam. Are you reall this much of a mental invalid or do you try really hard? *




Oh well hey, as long as its better than Saddam, its OK.


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

> Spidey:You are actually madder tonight than you were the day 3000 Americans were murdered?



9/11 I was shocked, then angry. At the time of the Pearl murder, I was expecting that.

This just serves as a reminder of why there is no compromise possible. Our versions of truth and justice are irreconcilable.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Whatever you say LBS. *




Translation - "You're right spidey, you never said America was evil, I just made that up to make you look bad, and I'm not sorry at all because my mother taught me lying is OK"


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Oh well hey, as long as its better than Saddam, its OK. *



So would you rather Sadaam stayed in power or not. tHere is only 1 right answer, good luck fuckwad!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *Hey i'm sure that I saw you on 9/11 dancing around the streets of the west bank with a Palestinian flag. Don't feign your caring here, we don't buy it. *




I'm growing real tired of you shit.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *So would you rather Sadaam stayed in power or not. tHere is only 1 right answer, good luck fuckwad! *



Hey look, as long as they're being treated better than Saddam is treating them, they're being treated alright, isn't that what I just said?


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *I'm growing real tired of you shit. *



And just what the fuck are you gonna do about it?


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

Jethro do you think its Bush's fault for the beheading today?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *well it is certainly alot more then they had under Saddam!  why is it you show no sympathy to your own kind? *




Hey, like I said, as long as its better than Saddam, its fine with me. Two American contractors there raped two Iraqi women and the worse thing that happened was they got fired. Why? Because there is no justice for the 20,000 American contractors there, they can do as they please. They can't be prosecuted back here for it, and we're sure as hell not going to throw them in Shrub's torture camps, so they do as they please. But hey, its fine with me, as least its not as bad as when Saddam was there, right?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *Jethro do you think its Bush's fault for the beheading today? *




Nope. Goodbye.


Ahhh... so much quieter now!


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Hey, like I said, as long as its better than Saddam, its fine with me. Two American contractors there raped two Iraqi women and the worse thing that happened was they got fired. Why? Because there is no justice for the 20,000 American contractors there, they can do as they please. They can't be prosecuted back here for it, and we're sure as hell not going to throw them in Shrub's torture camps, so they do as they please. But hey, its fine with me, as least its not as bad as when Saddam was there, right? *



Interesting. You say these contractors raped iraqi women? Whats your proof. You have said they havent been convicted. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Hey, like I said, as long as its better than Saddam, its fine with me. Two American contractors there raped two Iraqi women and the worse thing that happened was they got fired. Why? Because there is no justice for the 20,000 American contractors there, they can do as they please. They can't be prosecuted back here for it, and we're sure as hell not going to throw them in Shrub's torture camps, so they do as they please. But hey, its fine with me, as least its not as bad as when Saddam was there, right? *



There is absolutely no evidence of this. Evil you going to let Jethro continue to spread lies on the board? I think the time has come to say adios to this moron. Y'all asked him to apologize earlier and he said no so why wait?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Guess that you have'nt realized the amount of our military women that were raped over there!   I have to say that your issue with that is something that I will not lose sleep over! *




I was aware of the fact that about 100 women coming back from Iraq claim to have been raped by fellow US soldiers, yes.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Kathianne _
> *This is a bit off topic, but speaking of an assumption of stupid:
> 
> http://www.lt-smash.us/archives/002881.html#002881
> ...



Yea i heard the actual phone call on the radio yesterday.  IF Thats the kind of Democratic leadership that is in the Senate, no wonder nothing ever gets done there.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *I was aware of the fact that about 100 women coming back from Iraq claim to have been raped by fellow US soldiers, yes. *



HOLY SHIT! More lies! How much more we gonna let go?


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

Its a shame that in his zeal to be the center of attention, he drags decent threads down to wasted bytes.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *I was aware of the fact that about 100 women coming back from Iraq claim to have been raped by fellow US soldiers, yes. *



Source?  Or is it more baseless accusations of your American bashing.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Translation - "You're right spidey, you never said America was evil, I just made that up to make you look bad, and I'm not sorry at all because my mother taught me lying is OK" *



Translataion, You are Living Breathing Shit that has stated unAmerican things about our president, our military and our women.  So what am i too conclude that your a Patriotic America?


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

This ignorant bastard has me on ignore. I hope he's gone by morning time. Somebody tell him he's a pussy and a traitor for me, will ya please?


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Source?  Or is it more baseless accusations of your American bashing. *




Its more of the same of his adolescent bullshit. It's like that scene in PeeWee Herman: I know you are but what am I, I know you are but what am I, I know you are but what am I ....over and over and over again


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *WTF is the matter with you Spidey?  are you out of your friggin mind tonight?  these women were raped at the hands of their captors in Iraq!  boy you better come up with something good now pal! *



Come on Evil cut him! Cut him now!


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *This ignorant bastard has me on ignore. I hope he's gone by morning time. Somebody tell him he's a pussy and a traitor for me, will ya please? *



Spiderman your a pussy and a traitor.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Spiderman your a pussy and a traitor. *



Thanks I owe you one!


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *  I dunno, I am feeling a psychotic reaction coming on!!  someone wanna save me from myself???   or should I just do the deed?? *



YEAH YEAH! Behead the fucker!


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *  I dunno, I am feeling a psychotic reaction coming on!!  someone wanna save me from myself???   or should I just do the deed?? *



You'll be considered a censor by some, but I ain't savin ya!


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *You'll be considered a censor by some, but I ain't savin ya! *[/QUOTE
> 
> I won't consider you a censor! Hell i'll buy you a drink!


----------



## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *I was aware of the fact that about 100 women coming back from Iraq claim to have been raped by fellow US soldiers, yes. *



Spiderman, site evidence of this statement with a credible source.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *  I dunno, I am feeling a psychotic reaction coming on!!  someone wanna save me from myself???   or should I just do the deed?? *


 He's had many chances.  He's only here to antagonize with his lies and baseless accusations.  He never apolgized to Patriot.  So i think its time to pull the plug.  That would be the worst thing you could do to him.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MtnBiker _
> *Spiderman, site evidence of this statement with a credible source. *



wouldnt that be convienant.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Avatar4321 _
> *Interesting. You say these contractors raped iraqi women? Whats your proof. You have said they havent been convicted. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? *




Innocent until proven guilty works real well when you're immune to prosection, doesn't it?


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *well I have been considered worse!   *



Hey I'm just trying to be fair and balanced 

I would've iced him a looooooooong time ago.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

This guy did the exact same things that you guys have banned many idiots for. He came on here firing double barrel blasts of flame instead of giving himself some time and explaining his political positions like just about everybody else. I SAY OFF WITH HIS HEAD!


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

Do what you must do. I noticed that he sprang to answer those who went negative. He never answered my queries.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *Hey I'm just trying to be fair and balanced
> 
> I would've iced him a looooooooong time ago. *



Jihad you're the man! Oops I mean lady. Hey Johnny Horton rocks!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *There is absolutely no evidence of this. Evil you going to let Jethro continue to spread lies on the board? I think the time has come to say adios to this moron. Y'all asked him to apologize earlier and he said no so why wait? *




LINK 


You're a liar, I did apologize, and Sir Evil accepted it.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *I dunno spidey, there calling for your head here tonight!  maybe there is something you can say to reverse the minds around here?  better hurry though, I feel it coming - - -  *



Oh this ought to be interesting


----------



## Annie (May 11, 2004)

Night guys. Let's hope tomorrow brings better news. Is Spidey gone yet?


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *WTF is the matter with you Spidey?  are you out of your friggin mind tonight?  these women were raped at the hands of their captors in Iraq!  boy you better come up with something good now pal! *




Not the 100 I'm talking about.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Translataion, You are Living Breathing Shit that has stated unAmerican things about our president, our military and our women.  So what am i too conclude that your a Patriotic America? *




Translation - "You're translation is right Spidey, I'll fabricate lies about anybody if it will help me win an argument"


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *LINK
> 
> 
> You're a liar, I did apologize, and Sir Evil accepted it. *



That link takes me to the NPR website. What the hell is wrong with you boy? I guess the suspense was killing ya, huh? Couldn't stand being away from your ol'daddy OCA!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MtnBiker _
> *Spiderman, site evidence of this statement with a credible source. *




What constitutes a credible source?


----------



## MtnBiker (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *I was aware of the fact that about 100 women coming back from Iraq claim to have been raped by fellow US soldiers, yes. *


You link says "sexually assaulted" you use the term rape, closely related. However you cannot assume all cases where rape. A pat on the ass could be classified as a sexual assault.


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *He's had many chances.  He's only here to antagonize with his lies and baseless accusations.  He never apolgized to Patriot.  So i think its time to pull the plug.  That would be the worst thing you could do to him. *




Yes I did aplogize to Patriot, Sir Evil can testify to that. I'm amazed at your willingness to fabricate lies over and over again.


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

(In exorcist voice) Evil, Evil, Evil hwaaaaa hit the button Evil, hit the button hwaaaaaaa!


----------



## SpidermanTuba (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MtnBiker _
> *You link says "sexually assaulted" you use the term rape, closely related. However you cannot assume all cases where rape. A pat on the ass could be classified as a sexual assault. *




Oh, my bad, only a few cases were rape, nevermind then, a few cases of rape are OK.


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *Jihad you're the man! Oops I mean lady. Hey Johnny Horton rocks! *




LOL!!! North of Alaska baby!!!


Waiting to see if spidey goes south


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Oh, my bad, only a few cases were rape, nevermind then, a few cases of rape are OK. *



Quotes like this put you in your own special class of asshole......


----------



## OCA (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SpidermanTuba _
> *Oh, my bad, only a few cases were rape, nevermind then, a few cases of rape are OK. *



Jethro you got a link to some sort of proof for this or should we take your very dubious word?


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 11, 2004)

Thanks Evil for doin the deed. Here's hoping tomorrow is a better day.
Good night gents.


----------



## insein (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *OK Folks, it's a done deal! spidey has left the house!:hail: :hail: :hail: *



Thank god.  Ive never been so aggravated by one asshole in my entire life.  How someone could have a mindset like that and be an America is beyond comprehension.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *OK Folks, it's a done deal! spidey has left the house!:hail: :hail: :hail: *



Is this for tonight or forever?


----------



## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *OK Folks, it's a done deal! spidey has left the house!:hail: :hail: :hail: *



SO LONG AND VAYA CON DIOS JETHRO! I told you I could get what I wished for you scumbag traitor heathen. 

Shit Evil I was just about to give up and hit the hay, glad I waited. YOU'RE THE MAN and I owe you a cocktail Now lets talk about RWA


----------



## Sandy73 (May 12, 2004)

Hey OCA I bought him that flight !! hahahaha


----------



## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

Did someone say beheaded?
Man, that sure happened quick. 
He sure didn't have much salt to him.

But that word... we shouldn't use that word like that today.
Spidey got Ice-Ice Babied.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

not to be annoying, but anyway we can like start a new thread on this. i dont want to have to wade through like 20 pages of BS to actually discuss something significant.


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Sorry did I keep you up Jihad?  thought I would make it slow and painful but didn't realize I was keepin ya all in such suspense! *




Nah it's all good! Slow and painful......building up to a climax? LOL!

I better be careful, Patriot was talking about light sticks in the coolie or something:


----------



## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sandy73 _
> *  Hey OCA I bought him that flight !! hahahaha *



Hehehe bring him on baby!


----------



## Sandy73 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *Hehehe bring him on baby! *


  :spank3:  :whip3: :chains:  is my guess right ?


----------



## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Did someone say beheaded?
> Man, that sure happened quick.
> He sure didn't have much salt to him.
> ...



That was me, I was trying to get under his skin.


----------



## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sandy73 _
> * :spank3:  :whip3: :chains:  is my guess right ? *



Oh i'm sure it would start out alright in neutral corners but after a few drinks.....well you know. I sure hope you're kidding again


----------



## Sandy73 (May 12, 2004)

well being the fact I have no clue even where this guy lives I seriously doubt it ... But hey I can still have fun right ??


----------



## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sandy73 _
> *well being the fact I have no clue even where this guy lives I seriously doubt it ... But hey I can still have fun right ??   *



Yeah and i'm thinking is he worth the 300 some odd bucks? You two(Janeeng) are crazy, I wouldn't put anything past y'all.


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sandy73 _
> *well being the fact I have no clue even where this guy lives I seriously doubt it ... But hey I can still have fun right ??   *



He claims to have gone to LSU, work in Washington and live in Flagstaff Arizona.


----------



## Sandy73 (May 12, 2004)

No he was talking about RWA.... OCA just loves him !!:teeth:


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

BTW was it a name ban or an IP ban Evil?  Cause i see guest viewing this thread and another registering as we speak.


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *Nah it's all good! Slow and painful......building up to a climax? LOL!
> 
> I better be careful, Patriot was talking about light sticks in the coolie or something: *





Light sticks were for the prisoners. Spidy needed the strap on!


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *I can gaurantee it's him!  he will be back, but a ip ban can come next! *



In fact he's signed in right now somehow as spidermantuba.  How is that possible?


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Light sticks were for the prisoners. Spidy needed the strap on! *



BTW, what do you look like patriot.  Indulge me, lol.


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *BTW, what do you look like patriot.  Indulge me, lol. *




Well for starters I am all female at least that is what my ta-ta's are saying to me. *looks down her shirt* Yep they are still there!


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Well for starters I am all female at least that is what my ta-ta's are saying to me. *looks down her shirt* Yep they are still there! *



Lol, well if they're big enough to talk to you then thats a good thing.


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Lol, well if they're big enough to talk to you then thats a good thing.   *




You must be kidding right? These pups could knock an eye out. Definately a mood breaker.


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *You must be kidding right? These pups could knock an eye out. Definately a mood breaker. *



Other atrributes?


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Well for starters I am all female at least that is what my ta-ta's are saying to me. *looks down her shirt* Yep they are still there! *



Wow, i thought only my one friend used the word ta tas. lol 

I guess that means you are a woman then? got to question cause some guys have tatas too (ewww)


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

haha all of this is reminding me of a phone scam a local dj pulled years ago calling a woman pretending to need to alter her brides maid dress because her boobs were too big.


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

this thread needs to be restarted cause it has gotten waaaaaaaay off subject thanks to said asshole.


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Other atrributes? *




Ummm, let me think.......I have a big mouth?


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *this thread needs to be restarted cause it has gotten waaaaaaaay off subject thanks to said asshole. *



Oh come on there has to be some way a beheading is related to TaTas...hmmm well i know that some girls will behead a guy if he stares too much. there is a connection i suppose


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Ummm, let me think.......I have a big mouth? *



hmmm question is is that a good attribute or a bad one


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Avatar4321 _
> *Wow, i thought only my one friend used the word ta tas. lol
> 
> I guess that means you are a woman then? got to question cause some guys have tatas too (ewww) *





That would be a resounding YES to being a woman. Titties and boobies are boring words for female anatomy. I like to spice things up some.


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Thanks Patriot!  I do the deed and you steal my thunder with your knockers! *




My bad...I will strap those girls down for future references.


----------



## insein (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Ummm, let me think.......I have a big mouth? *



Don't give me too many ideas, lol.  I do have something big that i....nevermind i wont go there, lol.


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Avatar4321 _
> *hmmm question is is that a good attribute or a bad one *




Well it is bad when the HO is yelling back at her man "go get your own damn beer!"

However, when use in the act of gratification I would say that most men would be in their happy place.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *That would be a resounding YES to being a woman. Titties and boobies are boring words for female anatomy. I like to spice things up some. *



You know. Im not sure there are any boring names for them. I mean any word you can think of for them and guys get excited. so it doesnt bore us that much.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by insein _
> *Don't give me too many ideas, lol.  I do have something big that i....nevermind i wont go there, lol. *



dont start thinking. its a dangerous pastime.


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *Well it is bad when the HO is yelling back at her man "go get your own damn beer!"
> 
> However, when use in the act of gratification I would say that most men would be in their happy place. *



haha i dont know what to say to this one. All i know is its late and im feeling crazy which is probably why im still posting and not asleep.


----------



## MtnBiker (May 12, 2004)

After all of that I'm still wondering who PaulFrank is?


----------



## 007 (May 12, 2004)

Hmmmmm.... here I am starting out reading this thread, from the beginning no less, expecting to engage in debate about the beheading, and getting a good mojo going after reading dillo's crap, only to find there are twenty some pages, and the last pages are nothing but "sexual patty cake".

What the hell happened here?

I guess "cutting someone's head off" isn't important enough to hold anyone's attention......


----------



## MtnBiker (May 12, 2004)

The thread was derailed by spidermantuba, but then he was derailed.


----------



## 007 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *Did you miss some pages Pale?  it was pretty heated until the end! *



Yes "Sir" I did. I got so pissed reading page after page of dillo saying what we've been doing in the war agaisnt terror is failing, I couldn't stand it any longer. So after about ten pages of reading, and the page counter just kept going up, I hit "last page" to find out the last page was page number 6,759,771,030,419. I guess I missed out on a lot.


----------



## 007 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MtnBiker _
> *The thread was derailed by spidermantuba, but then he was derailed. *



Did he get banned, or just changed the subject?


----------



## 007 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *He lost his battle with the board!  he was lynched! *



Think he'd have rather been "DECAPITATED" as to lynched?


----------



## Patriot (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pale Rider _
> *Hmmmmm.... here I am starting out reading this thread, from the beginning no less, expecting to engage in debate about the beheading, and getting a good mojo going after reading dillo's crap, only to find there are twenty some pages, and the last pages are nothing but "sexual patty cake".
> 
> What the hell happened here?
> ...




The sexual patty cake was my fault. I needed to chill stupid spidy out. He was a head case!


----------



## 007 (May 12, 2004)

Well just to get my two cents worth in.....

_Hey, Pale Rider, what are your feelings on the decapitation?_

Well I'll tell ya, first, my much needs to get out response to dilloduck and his ranting that our fight against terrorism isn't working.... since 9/11, how many terror attacks have there been in America? None. Is our present policy against terrorist working then? Yes it is. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. It only takes a moron not to.

As far as the decapitation goes, comparing it to some Iraqi prisoners that were made to get naked and humiliated, there is no comparison that can be done in this universe. One is a few people that just got a little out of hand. The other is *BARBARIC, SATANIC, BLOOD LUSTING, UNIMAGINABLE, KILLING!!* I am GREATLY PISSED OFF at ANYONE that would even ATTEMPT at making a point comparing the two.

I think it's time to start making parking lots in Iraq. Take the good people that want a new start at a good country, move them off somewhere out of harms way, and start carpet bombing all the rest. *KILL ALL OF THESE KILLING MACHINES BEFORE THEY KILL ANYMORE OF US!!*

Simple. Clean. We're done. Everybody can go home now.


----------



## 007 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *The sexual patty cake was my fault. I needed to chill stupid spidy out. He was a head case! *



You're a naughty girl..... :


----------



## Avatar4321 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Patriot _
> *The sexual patty cake was my fault. I needed to chill stupid spidy out. He was a head case! *



Yes, I agree with Pale. Naughty girl Go to my room!


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *oh really?  great job dealing with this tyranny, man!  fine mess we've made!!!!  how could we have done any worse?!!!  nuking the area?
> 
> diff between you and i that I DON'T STRIVE FOR SEGREGATION.  i don't demonize those who don't agree with me.  i don't focus on them being the problem. i focus on the problem BEING THE PROBLEM.
> ...



I don't strive for segregation.  I pinpoint the general things libs believe, that's not villainization.  Working together is not the end all, be all, solution to everything.  That's three, you're out.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *The execution is sicko fuck terrorists fault.
> But yeah, the fact tat Iraqi prisoners have been tortured since January doesn't help.
> This war is doing little for our credibility overseas, in general, IMO. But I suppose the point is to defeat the terrorists... it's not a popularity contest.
> ...



What would make us most loved and popular is if we just dismantled our military and purposefully destroyed all our multinational corporations.  Think of how loved we would be then. Do you see how foolish this line of thinking is?


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Yes, and I believe Bush will be removed from office.
> The uglier things get in Iraq the more the people of the United States will question their leader for his decision to invade Iraq. The people don't question the decision to go after terrorists, but they question Bush's bloodlust... *



No they don't.  That's why bush will win by a landslide.


----------



## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rtwngAvngr _
> *What would make us most loved and popular is if we just dismantled our military and purposefully destroyed all our multinational corporations.  Think of how loved we would be then. Do you see how foolish this line of thinking is? *



Huh? You calling me foolish?
I'm not saying we need to strive to be most loved, I'm saying it's "bad for business" to alienate the international community. I'm saying that reputation counts for something when bargaining at an international level.


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 12, 2004)

*How we are at risk of losing:*

http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200405070832.asp

May 07, 2004, 8:32 a.m.
Our Weird Way of War
Our enemies know us only too well.

By Victor Davis Hanson 

The wars since September 11 have once more revealed the superiority of Western arms. Afghanistan may be 7,000 miles away, cold, high, and full of clans, warlords, and assorted folk who have historically enjoyed killing foreign interlopers for blood sport, but somehow a few thousand Americans went over there and took out the invincible Taliban in eight weeks. What followed was not perfect, but Mr. Karzai offers far more hope than a Mullah Omar  and without half of Afghanistan ceded over as a terrorist sanctuary to plan another September 11.




Iraq is a long way away too. And the neighborhood is especially eerie, with the likes of hostile Syria and Iran, and triangulators on the dole like Jordan and Egypt. When we become ecstatic because a megalomaniac like Khaddafi says he's taken a hiatus from nuclear acquisition, you can see that good news over there is rare indeed. 

Add in the hysteria over oil, three decades of the Baathist nightmare, and a potpourri of terrorists, and the idea of even getting near Iraq seems crazy. Yet we defeated Saddam in less than three weeks  in far less time than the 125- to 225-day conflict originally predicted by many Pentagon planners. True, the year-long reconstruction has often been depressing and bloody; but here we are a year later with some hope for a government better than Saddam set to take power. Success, remember, need not be defined as perfection, but simply by leaving things far better than they were.

Despite the tragedy of nearly 600 American combat dead, we did not see thousands of American fatalities, millions of refugees, burning oil wells, and the other assorted Dante-esque scenarios that were promised before the war. In other words, distance, climate, weather, the foul nature of the enemy  all those and more challenges were predictably trumped by the U.S. military, which cannot be defeated on the field of battle by any present force in existence.

Yet will we always see political successes follow from our military triumphs? Hardly  and for a variety of reasons. We are confronted with the paradox that our new military's short wars rarely inflict enough damage on the fabric of a country to establish a sense of general defeat  or the humiliation often necessary for a change of heart and acceptance of change. In the messy follow-ups to these brief and militarily precise wars, it is hard to muster patience and commitment from an American public plagued with attention-deficit problems and busy with better things to do than give fist-shaking Iraqis $87 billion. 

Still, we must give proper credit to our enemies for our present problems in Iraq and indeed in the so-called war against terror in general. The fundamentalists and holdover fascists are as adroit off the conventional battlefield as they were incompetent on it. If Middle Eastern fanatics cannot field tens of thousands to meet the United States in battle, they can at least offer up a few hundred spooky assassins, car bombers, and suicide killers seeking to achieve through repulsion what they otherwise could not through arms. 

Thus while hundreds of thousands of Saddam's soldiers ran  as Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians did from the Israelis in five wars  hundreds most certainly did not once the rules of war changed to the protocols of peace. Recently we were within hours of smashing the resistance in Fallujah once we accepted war anew. But when the mujahedeen, Gollum-like, decided to slither out in the open, then in terror scampered to safety, then remerged on all fours defiant and barking when we stopped firing, our forbearance and fear of global-televised condemnation handed them a victory they did not earn. In short, we should have listened to Sam and strangled the creep on the spot.

But our problems are not just with the paradoxes of the fourth-dimensional, asymmetric warfare that the United States has dealt with since the fighting in the Philippines and knew so well in Vietnam. 

No, the challenge again is that bin Laden, the al Qaedists, the Baathist remnants, and the generic radical Islamicists of the Middle East have mastered the knowledge of the Western mind. Indeed they know us far better than we do ourselves. Three years ago, if one had dared to suggest that a few terrorists could bring down the Spanish government and send their legion scurrying out of Iraq, we would have thought it impossible. 

Who would have imagined that Americans could go, in a few weeks, from the terror of seeing two skyscrapers topple to civil discord over the diet and clothing of war in Guantanamo, some of whom were released only to turn up to shoot at us again on the battlefields of Afghanistan? Our grandfathers would have dubbed Arafat a gangster, and al Sadr a psychopathic faker; many of us in our infinite capacity for fairness and non-judgementalism deemed the one a statesman and the other a holy man.

So our enemies realize that the struggle, lost on the battlefield, can yet be won with images and rhetoric offered up to alter the mentality and erode the will of an affluent, leisured and consensual West. They grasp that we are not so much worried about being convicted of being illiberal as having the charge even raised in the first place. 

The one caveat they have learned? Do not provoke us too dramatically to bring on an open shooting war, in which the Arab Street hysteria, empty threats on spec, and silly fatwas nos. 1 through 1,000 mean nothing against the U.S. Marines and Cobra gunships. Instead, their modus operandi is to push all the way up to war  now provoking, now backing down, sometimes threatening, sometimes weeping  the key being to see the struggle in the long duration as a war of attrition, if you will, rather than a brief contest of annihilation.

These rules of the strategy of exhaustion are complex, and yet have been nearly mastered by the radicals of the Middle East. First, shock the sensibilities of a Western society into utter despair at facing primordial enemies from the Dark Ages. The decapitation of a Daniel Pearl; the probing of charred bodies with sticks, whether in Iran in 1980 or Fallujah in 2004; the promise of torturing Japanese hostages  all this is designed to make the Western suburbanite change channels and head to the patio, mumbling either, "How can we fight such barbarians" or  better yet  "Why would we wish to?" 

If, on occasion, an exasperated and furious West sinks to the same level  renegade prisoner guards gratuitously humiliating or torturing naked Iraqi prisoners on tape  all the better, as proof that the elevated pretensions of Western decency and humanity are but a sham. A single violation of civility, a momentary lapse in humanism and in the new world of Western cultural relativism and moral equivalence, presto, the West loses its carefully carved-out moral high ground as it engages not merely in much needed self-critique and scrutiny, but reaches a feeding frenzy that evolves to outright cultural cannibalism. 

For someone in a coffee-house in Brussels the idea that Bush apologizes for a dozen or so prison guards makes him the same as or worse than Saddam and his sons shooting prisoners for sport  moral equivalence lapped up by the state-controlled and censored Arab media that is largely responsible for the collective Middle East absence of rage over the exploding, decapitating, and incinerating of Western civilians in its midst.

Key here is our own acceptance of such moral asymmetries. Storming the Church of the Nativity is a misdemeanor in the Western press; shelling a minaret full of shooters is a felony. Blowing up Westerners in Saudi Arabia or Jordan is de rigueur; asking Muslims to take off their scarves while in French schools is a casus belli. If Afghanistan has roads, a benevolent man as president, and al Qaedists on the run, call it a failure because Mr. Karzai has not been able, FDR-like, to tour the countryside in a convertible limousine waving to crowds.

Institutionalized cowardice plays a role as well in this weird way of war: Call the few dozen dead in a West Bank town the wages of Jeningrad or the fire-fighting in Fallujah an atrocity, but don't utter a peep about the 80,000 dead in Chechnya or the flattening of Grozny. The Russians are not quite folk like the Israelis or Americans. They really don't care much if you hate them; they are likely to do some pretty scary things if you press them; they don't have too much money to shake down; they don't put you on cable news to yell at their citizenry; and you wouldn't really wish to emigrate there for a teaching fellowship anyway.

The moral of all this? The West can defeat the enemy on the battlefield, but in distant and much-caricatured wars on the dirty ground it can only win when it has leaders who can convince a fickle public into sacrificing, being ridiculed, and putting up with inevitable short-term disappointment that is the price of long-term security and stability  a sacrifice that in turn will never be acknowledged as such by the very people who are its beneficiaries both here and abroad. 

How weird is our way of war! When we embrace Clintonian bombing  in Kosovo, Serbia, or in Iraq  and kill thousands, America sleeps: few of our guys killed, so who cares how many of theirs? Out of sight, out of mind. Yet when we take the trouble to sort out the messy moral calculus and go in on the ground shooting and getting shot, then suddenly the Left cries war crimes and worse  so strong is this Western disease of wishing to be perfect rather than merely good. Such is the self-induced burden for all those who would be gods rather than mere mortals.

What then are we to do when choices since September 11 have always been between bad and worse? We at least must have enough sense not to stand down and let Iraq become Lebanonized, Talibanized, or Iranicized, even though when all is said and done Americans will be blamed for bringing something better to the region. And yes, we need more democracy, not less, in Iraq and the surrounding Middle East in general.

*We have to return to an audacious and entirely unpredictable combat mode; put on a happy, aw-shucks face while annihilating utterly the Baathist remnants and Sadr's killers; attribute this success to the new Iraqi government and its veneer of an army for its own 'miraculous' courage; ignore the incoming rounds of moral hypocrisy on Iraq from Europe (past French and German oil deals and arms sales), the Arab League (silence over Iraqi holocausts, cheating on sanctions), and the U.N. (Oil-for-Food debacle); explain to an exasperated American people why other people hate us for who we are rather than what we do; *and apologize sincerely and forcefully once  not gratuitously and zillions of times  for the rare transgression. 

Do all that and we can really complete this weird peace in Iraq.


----------



## dilloduck (May 12, 2004)

Rider  get your shit straight here on who said the war an terrorism wasnt working. It sure as hell wasnt me. It was spilly who got yout dander up. I KNOW how many dead terrorists are over there and they won't be killing anyone any more. I'm pissed about our damn media and those who but into their BS


----------



## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pale Rider _
> *Well just to get my two cents worth in.....
> 
> Hey, Pale Rider, what are your feelings on the decapitation?
> ...



It's difficult to validate this statement when there were 7 years between WTC attacks, or attacks on our home soil, and there have only been 2.5 years since 9/11. 



> *As far as the decapitation goes, comparing it to some Iraqi prisoners that were made to get naked and humiliated, there is no comparison that can be done in this universe. One is a few people that just got a little out of hand. The other is BARBARIC, SATANIC, BLOOD LUSTING, UNIMAGINABLE, KILLING!! I am GREATLY PISSED OFF at ANYONE that would even ATTEMPT at making a point comparing the two.*



then prepare to be pissed off. until we decide to understand that theres a huge culture difference all we're going to do is up the ante with each other, more violence, more hatred, and more killing. On our part, its more than just a 'few people that got a little out of hand', its a blot and stain on our military's honor, integrity, and professionalism and its also an affront to their culture. On their hand its a cowardly, heinous, barbaric act that requires bloody retribution.



> *I think it's time to start making parking lots in Iraq. Take the good people that want a new start at a good country, move them off somewhere out of harms way, and start carpet bombing all the rest. KILL ALL OF THESE KILLING MACHINES BEFORE THEY KILL ANYMORE OF US!!*



how are we supposed to do that when we can't hardly tell who's with us and who's not?


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Huh? You calling me foolish?
> I'm not saying we need to strive to be most loved, I'm saying it's "bad for business" to alienate the international community. I'm saying that reputation counts for something when bargaining at an international level. *



You know what else is bad for business?  Global terrorism.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *It's difficult to validate this statement when there were 7 years between WTC attacks, or attacks on our home soil, and there have only been 2.5 years since 9/11.
> 
> 
> ...



An affront to their culture?   Are you serious with shit, dk?


----------



## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rtwngAvngr _
> *You know what else is bad for business?  Global terrorism. *



Agreed. That's bad for humanity.
RWA=Master of the obvious.


----------



## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rtwngAvngr _
> *An affront to their culture?   Are you serious with shit, dk? *



"Serious with shit", is that a scientific term? :


----------



## dilloduck (May 12, 2004)

And well said jihad-----we have been speaking softly for so long that some americans have forgotten what we carry a big stck for!


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *"Serious with shit", is that a scientific term? : *



Well err, um ,  yeah,  that's "serious with THIS shit"


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by nycflasher _
> *Agreed. That's bad for humanity.
> RWA=Master of the obvious. *



Just trying to help those less skilled in the thinking art, no need to be c0cksn0t about it!


----------



## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rtwngAvngr _
> *Just trying to help those less skilled in the thinking art, no need to be c0cksn0t about it! *



You're just a flamer(as in you flame, not you're gay).

What part of what I said suggests I am not capable of thinking?


----------



## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rtwngAvngr _
> *An affront to their culture?   Are you serious with shit, dk? *



I am actually. Lets look at some of the things we've done. We bitch and complain about the immigrants that come to our country about language, customs, culture. We yell all the time, if they come to this country, they need to adapt....do we not?

We're in their country, We're in their culture, we need to either adapt to that(admit it, criminal sentencing by islamic law rocks) or respect that. By disrespecting or ignoring it all together, we're literally telling the iraqi's, all iraqi's, that we really don't give a damn about them and their culture.

Now, before you want to jump my ass on all of this and how dare I compare what we've done to what they've done, I'm not. You can't compare two different cultures and then try to validate the difference between them. I'm telling everyone that if we want to make a difference over there, we need to understand and respect their basic cultural beliefs first. 

Also, I've said it before that these cowards who did the beheading did NOT need an excuse, they would have done it anyway whether there was prisoner abuse or not. I expect that kind of brutality from cowards. It's something that should be met with swift and deadly retaliation.


----------



## rtwngAvngr (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *I am actually. Lets look at some of the things we've done. We bitch and complain about the immigrants that come to our country about language, customs, culture. We yell all the time, if they come to this country, they need to adapt....do we not?
> 
> We're in their country, We're in their culture, we need to either adapt to that(admit it, criminal sentencing by islamic law rocks) or respect that. By disrespecting or ignoring it all together, we're literally telling the iraqi's, all iraqi's, that we really don't give a damn about them and their culture.
> ...



Wrong. Cultures can and should be compared.  Redefining what an atrocity is according to which culture the victim is from has no logical merit.


----------



## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rtwngAvngr _
> *Wrong. Cultures can and should be compared.  Redefining what an atrocity is according to which culture the victim is from has no logical merit. *



hold up tiger. I NEVER tried to redefine what atrocity is and isn't. 

Never did I say that the handful of soldiers who abused prisoners comitted an atrocity. I said they shamed theirselves and their unit. It embarrased the US as a whole because thats not what we're about. 

I've also said that the ones who killed this innocent american are cowardly murdering bastards, but I don't EXPECT anything better from them.

also, you CANNOT compare cultures in the context of expecting relatively same reactions.


----------



## JIHADTHIS (May 12, 2004)

DK, I'll preface this by saying that I know you are not saying the Abu G pics and what happened yesterday are the same. 
I'll also add that I do not think the pics are a bad thing. I've stated this before, some agreed, some didn't. 




> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> I am actually. Lets look at some of the things we've done. We bitch and complain about the immigrants that come to our country about language, customs, culture. We yell all the time, if they come to this country, they need to adapt....do we not?
> We're in their country, We're in their culture, we need to either adapt to that(admit it, criminal sentencing by islamic law rocks) or respect that. By disrespecting or ignoring it all together, we're literally telling the iraqi's, all iraqi's, that we really don't give a damn about them and their culture.



I think your analogy is flawed. 

People who immigrate to this country should adapt to being Americans first. That's where the borders culture language comes into play. A few generations ago, people immigrated here and became Americans. They took the pledge and meant it. They weren't given special privlidges based on where they came from. THey came here for the American dream as its called. A hope that they could make a life for themself that was better then where they came from. They ADAPTED to being Americans. In the current social climate of this country, Americans are expected to adapt and make special provisions for those that come here. WTF?

The US military didn't immigrate to Iraq, we invaded it. I know you know this and I'm not trying to be a wise ass. Being sensitive to their culture is one thing, but adapting?



> Now, before you want to jump my ass on all of this and how dare I compare what we've done to what they've done, I'm not. You can't compare two different cultures and then try to validate the difference between them. I'm telling everyone that if we want to make a difference over there, we need to understand and respect their basic cultural beliefs first.



I think we do. We understood that if we took pictures of them naked being dragged around by a butch Christian women on a leash that was worse in their eyes then being physically tortured. 




> Also, I've said it before that these cowards who did the beheading did NOT need an excuse, they would have done it anyway whether there was prisoner abuse or not. I expect that kind of brutality from cowards. It's something that should be met with swift and deadly retaliation. [/B]



Agreed.


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## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

RWA get your facts straight.

Those guys that beheaded our fellow American are scum.

What went on in Abu is a problem,but quite different even if Al Queda wants to equate the two.

Those are the facts. You are full of shit, trying to twist others' words .
Dismissed.


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## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JIHADTHIS _
> *I think your analogy is flawed.
> 
> People who immigrate to this country should adapt to being Americans first. That's where the borders culture language comes into play. A few generations ago, people immigrated here and became Americans. They took the pledge and meant it. They weren't given special privlidges based on where they came from. THey came here for the American dream as its called. A hope that they could make a life for themself that was better then where they came from. They ADAPTED to being Americans. In the current social climate of this country, Americans are expected to adapt and make special provisions for those that come here. WTF?
> ...



OK, I MAY not have explained that as well as I could have. I wasn't trying to say that our military should ADAPT to their culture as if they should BECOME islamic, I'm trying to say that accepting that their culture is different, respecting that, and treating the iraqi's, or whoever else they may be, by those cultural beliefs and standards is what we should be doing. Treating them according to american cultures and beliefs and expecting them to tolerate it or even accept it, may be a bit of overestimation on our part.


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## OCA (May 12, 2004)

You know I just read through all the banter thats gone on in this thread today and basically its all just pissin in the wind. The time for all this understanding and blame has long passed. No matter how you feel about our abuses or how you feel about the beheading the time has come for pure military force and for mass death to be reigned down upon these people. Gather up all remaining forces at all US military installations around the world leaving only whats needed to keep them secure, call up all Guard units and reservists and ship em out to Iraq immediately. Give the fucking citizens of that country 24, exactly 24 fucking hours to give up the whereabouts of any asshole and the whereabouts of ALL arms and munitions or suffer some sort of tragedy. There is no reason that we should not control every square inch of that country immediately. Any asshole trying to cross the border armed gets shot on sight. I'm sick of this shit, can't actually believe after yesterday's video tape that there are still people believing in negotiation, understanding and winning of hearts and minds. These people will understand when they are burying loved ones.


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## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *You know I just read through all the banter thats gone on in this thread today and basically its all just pissin in the wind. The time for all this understanding and blame has long passed. No matter how you feel about our abuses or how you feel about the beheading the time has come for pure military force and for mass death to be reigned down upon these people. Gather up all remaining forces at all US military installations around the world leaving only whats needed to keep them secure, call up all Guard units and reservists and ship em out to Iraq immediately. Give the fucking citizens of that country 24, exactly 24 fucking hours to give up the whereabouts of any asshole and the whereabouts of ALL arms and munitions or suffer some sort of tragedy. There is no reason that we should not control every square inch of that country immediately. Any asshole trying to cross the border armed gets shot on sight. I'm sick of this shit, can't actually believe after yesterday's video tape that there are still people believing in negotiation, understanding and winning of hearts and minds. These people will understand when they are burying loved ones. *



won't work. all that is going to do is anger the rest of the iraqi's and prove the extremist left right in making it look like another vietnam quagmire.


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## JIHADTHIS (May 12, 2004)

OCA,

Unfortunately, I don't think the leaders nor the population of this country have the intestinal fortitude to put this down once and for all.  I agree with you 110% on Iraq.  We fucked up by letting Fallujah stand. These assholes are laughing at us. They think they won. They also think they won in the West Bank 2 days ago.
They only understand death. Let's give it to them. This tit for tat shit has gone on far far too long. If the Iraqi's are serious about taking their destiny in their own hands and are serious with their disgust with what these jihadists are doing, they'll help us put an end to this.

The whole world is worried about the semantics and the grey area. It's black and white at this point. Kill or be killed.


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## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *DK - I could care less if we anger the rest of the world but you know how I am!
> 
> Any thought's on what you think would work?  I know you feel anger about it all so let it all out! *



I think maybe he means hunt down the terrorists, as opposed to kil 'em all and let God sort 'em out.


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## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *won't work. all that is going to do is anger the rest of the iraqi's and prove the extremist left right in making it look like another vietnam quagmire. *



I don't see the Vietnam correlation at all when you control the country 100%. But if you are correct then fuck it, FUCK IT ALL! Kill me now because this world is one big shithole with no chance of ever coming back around.

Can I say this? Maybe you don't have any faith in the Iraqi people, you think they will tell us fuck off and not give up the bad guys? I think the opposite when faced with the alternative.


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## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Sir Evil _
> *well that sounds familiar to another quote that I heard about forgiveness. I forget who said it but when asked if these thugs need to be forgiven he replied "that's god's work, it's our job to arrange the meeting"  or something along those lines!
> I am all for that one! *



the only problem with that one is after all is said and done I don't think I'd like the result of my meeting with god for the scheduling I arranged earlier in my life.


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## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *I don't see the Vietnam correlation at all when you control the country 100%. But if you are correct then fuck it, FUCK IT ALL! Kill me now because this world is one big shithole with no chance of ever coming back around.
> 
> Can I say this? Maybe you don't have any faith in the Iraqi people, you think they will tell us fuck off and not give up the bad guys? I think the opposite when faced with the alternative. *



I don't know how the iraqi people would react, to be honest. Will their fear of the insurgents and terrorists be greater than the fear of our 'carpet bombing' or will they choose instead to just flee the cities before the bombing allowing the terrorists to blend in and wait til the bombing is over? Not to mention that it also compounds the costs and interests of having to rebuild THAT city.

John kennedy had the right idea in mind when he foresaw future warfare as being fought be small bands of guerilla fighters using hit and run tactics and created the NAVY SEALS. 

My idea would be to put SEALS and marine special forces units in and around the cities, hit and run the insurgents hideouts, be it mosques or temples, and force them to lose the battles due to attrition.


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## JIHADTHIS (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *I don't know how the iraqi people would react, to be honest. Will their fear of the insurgents and terrorists be greater than the fear of our 'carpet bombing' or will they choose instead to just flee the cities before the bombing allowing the terrorists to blend in and wait til the bombing is over? Not to mention that it also compounds the costs and interests of having to rebuild THAT city.
> 
> John kennedy had the right idea in mind when he foresaw future warfare as being fought be small bands of guerilla fighters using hit and run tactics and created the NAVY SEALS.
> ...



I think that'll just prolong this that much longer.  I fear that if this goes on much longer, we're toast. We didn't ask for this, but we HAVE to finish it.  We got 1 bunch of fucked up people in power now, and a worse bunch waiting in the wings. God/Budda/Creator whatever you believe in help us.


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## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *I don't know how the iraqi people would react, to be honest. Will their fear of the insurgents and terrorists be greater than the fear of our 'carpet bombing' or will they choose instead to just flee the cities before the bombing allowing the terrorists to blend in and wait til the bombing is over? Not to mention that it also compounds the costs and interests of having to rebuild THAT city.
> 
> John kennedy had the right idea in mind when he foresaw future warfare as being fought be small bands of guerilla fighters using hit and run tactics and created the NAVY SEALS.
> ...



No no I wouldn't carpet bomb, it would allow the assholes to do exactly what you said it would do. I would maybe beef it up a little bit with a mechanized force that would surround the city, check every person that left in the 24hr period for weapons and munitions, you would undoubtedly get some info on where the assholes are at as evidenced by the guy who turned Sadaams boys in, then I would sweep through that town like hell coming down. Building by building, 1 sniper shot from any building and its leveled immediatley.


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## spillmind (May 12, 2004)

> You fucking scumbag piece of shit.


 notice how no one gives you a hard time for this playground talk.  yeah, REAL PRODUCTIVE!  



> This IS the reason we're over there because people like this exist and have hated our guts for years.


 YOU still don't have a freaking clue, and all YOU have is hatred and negativity!  no plan, just a bunch of hate mail.  SPARE US



> To say that getting rid of Bush is going to end the war on terror is so fucking naive it pains me to even read it.


 in case you haven't NOTICED, our plan in IRAQ iS FAILED AND HAS FAILED ASOFAR.  WHY DON'T YOU TELL US HOW WE ARE SUCCEEDING IN THE WAR ON TERROR?  



> You have just LOST any credibility you ever had with me if you truly believe that its OUR FAULT THAT THIS GUY GOT HIS HEAD CUT OFF!!!!


 i'm really getting so gaddamned SICK of you trying to SLANDER ME!  NEVER DID I SAY THIS!  post it, or shut the hell up!  i'm really getting sick of your stupid games!  it's totally ridiculous!  



> How the fuck do we know when you and your kind have been trying to undermind it every step of the way. If im trying to play football and im the QB, how the hell can i play the game when my own players keep tackling me.


 pull your head out, already!  i don't hold ANY REIGN over opur admin's actions in this war, at all!  where in the HELL did you think up that crap?  after too many boxes of cheeze its?  



> You have just LOST any credibility you ever had with me if you truly believe that its OUR FAULT THAT THIS GUY GOT HIS HEAD CUT OFF!!!!


 i really couldn't give two shits about you.   all you do is slander, send hate mail, further divide the american people, and you don't even have a viable plan.  look in the mirror and see what a hateful joke you are


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## nycflasher (May 12, 2004)

Spill, was that RWA or some other slanderous piece of shit?

Missed that post. But, I tend to avoid discussions with people who start: "You fucking scumbag piece of shit."

I reserve those words for terrorists.


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## spillmind (May 12, 2004)

that was the 'man' with the powerful 'tool'.  unfortunately, he doesn't have any proof or a plan, just a bunch of hatred and SLANDER.


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## spillmind (May 12, 2004)

> _originally posted by OCA_
> 
> What happened to the other dirt bag Spilly?


 i'm right here, tough guy.  do you have any plan for a solution, or are you just going to throw pop shots at me from the sidelines too?    you kids REALLY NEED TO GROW UP


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## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *i'm right here, tough guy.  do you have any plan for a solution, or are you just going to throw pop shots at me from the sidelines too?    you kids REALLY NEED TO GROW UP *



My plan is plastered all over this board! I'm not into fantasies of negotiation and winning of hearts and minds like you. Maybe you ought to meet some of my Habib friends, they'll tell you, your solution is neither viable or possible.


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## spillmind (May 12, 2004)

WHAT THE HELL?  

you guys AXED spidey?  it's because he DID have some good points, and you all just didn't like it!  

YOU MIGHT AS WELL FREAKING AXE ME TOO!  I'M SICK OF THE BULLSHIT AROUND HERE.  YOUR PARTISAN FRIENDS CAN SAY ALL THE SHIT THEY WANT AND NOT GET BANNED!!!!!!!!!!! 

JUST A BUNCH OF HATE MAIL WITH NO PLAN!  I'M OVER THIS BOARD ALTOGETHER.  WON'T BE AS MUCH FUN WITH A BUNCH OF DELUSIONALS SLAPPING EACH OTHER ON THE BACK! 

GREAT JOB, GUYS!


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## OCA (May 12, 2004)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6383&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Spilly reply to this!


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## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *WHAT THE HELL?
> 
> you guys AXED spidey?  it's because he DID have some good points, and you all just didn't like it!
> ...



Jethro didn't get booted for his views! He got booted because he was firing double barrels of antagonism, condescension, flames and bullshit from post 1 without introducing himself, maybe explaining his political philosophy. He just wanted to troll for a fight and a fight he did get. This is not to mention that he made baseless claims and when asked to back them up he refused.


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## jimnyc (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by spillmind _
> *WHAT THE HELL?
> 
> you guys AXED spidey?  it's because he DID have some good points, and you all just didn't like it!
> ...



Good, now fuck off and don't return, dickhead. When we want a reminder of you we'll open the local paper to the comic strip section.


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## 007 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dilloduck _
> *Rider  get your shit straight here on who said the war an terrorism wasnt working. It sure as hell wasnt me. It was spilly who got yout dander up. I KNOW how many dead terrorists are over there and they won't be killing anyone any more. I'm pissed about our damn media and those who but into their BS *



My sincerest apologies Dillo. I've reread and realized it was spilly the terrorist kisser whom I'm irritated with.


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## DKSuddeth (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OCA _
> *No no I wouldn't carpet bomb, it would allow the assholes to do exactly what you said it would do. I would maybe beef it up a little bit with a mechanized force that would surround the city, check every person that left in the 24hr period for weapons and munitions, you would undoubtedly get some info on where the assholes are at as evidenced by the guy who turned Sadaams boys in, then I would sweep through that town like hell coming down. Building by building, 1 sniper shot from any building and its leveled immediatley. *




Ok, I can see this having some good impact. I still like my idea better though


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## 007 (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DKSuddeth _
> *won't work. all that is going to do is anger the rest of the iraqi's and prove the extremist left right in making it look like another vietnam quagmire. *



Wrong. That vast majority of Iraqi's want these terrorists gone also. They'd welcome the deed.

And as far as cultures go DK, I say screw their culture "while there's a war going on". Respect their culture only when it's done. Hell, the last thing we need is "restrict our military's actions because of some cultural click". 

We can observe their culture after they start respecting Americans and what the hell we're doing for them.


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## OCA (May 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by jimnyc _
> *Good, now fuck off and don't return, dickhead. When we want a reminder of you we'll open the local paper to the comic strip section. *



HOLY HELL! Jimmy glad to see you back off the injured reserve list!


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