# Iranian information



## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

One thing I've been a bit amazed at here, is the lack of respect for what is going on in Iran.  Its actually a rather amazing, and in many ways unfortunate, event.  There are mass beatings going on and the stories are telling some pretty terrible tales.  There is obviously propaganda on both sides, but I propose this thread be a thread for current events in Iran.  Rumors, as well as fact.  Of course if they are rumors, please note that they are rumors.  

Some sources for whats going on:

The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

Talking Points Memo | Breaking News and Analysis (Although not that current)

tehranbureau (Has gone down because of DoS attacks, but currentl up)

Landslide or Fraud? The Debate Online Over Iran&#8217;s Election Results - The Lede Blog - NYTimes.com

Feel free to add your own sources, these are just a beginning.

WARNING:  

There are going to be graphic video/pictures.  There is blood involved and people are being beaten, sometimes severely.  Not for the faint of heart.


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## Skull Pilot (Jun 15, 2009)

I am more worried about the shit going on in this country.


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## Annie (Jun 15, 2009)

Sullivan has been carrying good info on Iran. I posted this link before, Michael Totten has spent considerable time in Iran and has good info:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I0MkATcn04M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I0MkATcn04M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Iran supreme leader orders probe of election | TPM News Pages

Iranian Supreme leader appoints council to investigate allegations of fraud.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Iranian student


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ey9Kgf-cB40&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ey9Kgf-cB40&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Rallies going on right now.  Illegal rallies, I might add...apparently Mousavi just addressed the crowd.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

State media are, for some reason, reporting on the rallies.  Its unclear exactly what this means, and what the end result of this will be.  I'm hoping that the state is changing its mind and doesn't want anymore brutality.  There are reports that they've been authorized to use live ammunition for the first time though....so this might turn very, very bad.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dSECAvBTanQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dSECAvBTanQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Video of protestors protecting a policeman.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KcHT8-ps64w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KcHT8-ps64w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Video of protestors protecting a BBC reporter.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

70% of the population was born after the "revolution" they may think it's time for a change.

I have some Iranian friends here. They still go back every year. They were hoping the US would do the "regime change" in Iran too. They were very depressed a few years ago when I told them I thought the chances were very slim that the US would do that.

I think the "Supreme Leader" will throw AckIneedajob straight under the bus if it looks like a serious revolt is coming.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


> [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KcHT8-ps64w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KcHT8-ps64w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
> 
> Video of protestors protecting a BBC reporter.



A little disappointing that the US could not say what the Canadians did. Perhaps now that they have led the way, we can follow their lead.


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## WillowTree (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


> *One thing I've been a bit amazed at here, is the lack of respect for what is going on in Iran.*  Its actually a rather amazing, and in many ways unfortunate, event.  There are mass beatings going on and the stories are telling some pretty terrible tales.  There is obviously propaganda on both sides, but I propose this thread be a thread for current events in Iran.  Rumors, as well as fact.  Of course if they are rumors, please note that they are rumors.
> 
> Some sources for whats going on:
> 
> ...





What lack of respect are you talking about exactly? who, what, when, and where?


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> Nik said:
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> > [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KcHT8-ps64w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KcHT8-ps64w&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
> ...



What is this in reference too?


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


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Did you watch the clip you posted? It ends with statements from Hillary and the Canadian Foreign minister.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


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I did, but I can't listen to sound at work.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


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I see. Well basically, Hillary said the US was monitoring events and the US hopes that the outcome of the events will reflect the true will of the people.

The Canadian minister said that the Canadian government continues to be troubled over reports of voting irregularities in the recent election and is further troubled by reports of government action in the last two days.

The Canadians went MUCH farther in calling out the Iranian government than the US statement.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


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Thank you.  Yes...I agree the US should be calling out whats happening in Iran, but I think that we (more than other countries) need to be very careful about what we say.  The last thing we want to do is lend an air of legitimacy to claims that this is just a US backed coup attempt.  

Speaking of which, I know there have been some scattered reports of US officials speaking out against whats been happening, including Biden yesterday.  

It would be nice if there were more American news organizations calling this out as well.  Apparently CNN had nothing at all on Iran for a while, and there have been a lot of news organizations/pundits who have come out supporting the results, or saying that it doesn't matter if Ahmadinejad wins or not.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


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I've actually seen more on CNN than on FOX. CNN had some live reports over the weekend and they showed some footage this morning.

I think there is probably a very real chance that the US is at the very least taking the opportunity to spread some gasoline on the fire in Iran covertly.

We've had covert ops in Iran for years waiting for a catalyst.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


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Supposedly CNN had nothing at ALL for a day or two, and then they got reamed on it which is why they are now trying to make up for it.  I don't have a TV, so this is all second hand knowledge tho.  



> I think there is probably a very real chance that the US is at the very least taking the opportunity to spread some gasoline on the fire in Iran covertly.
> 
> We've had covert ops in Iran for years waiting for a catalyst.



Wouldn't surprise me, but if it goes from covert to outright support I think we've got a problem.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


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I think we definitely have to low key it. I wouldn't have Hillary come out in strong support of the protesters or anything. But, I think we may be overdoing it a little by "monitoring the situation" and having no response to the voting irregularities and violence.

I did see a little coy cat-who-swallowed-the-canary smile from Hillary at one point. She may know something is up and that's exactly why she's playing it like this.


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## Yurt (Jun 15, 2009)

WillowTree said:


> Nik said:
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> 
> > *One thing I've been a bit amazed at here, is the lack of respect for what is going on in Iran.*  Its actually a rather amazing, and in many ways unfortunate, event.  There are mass beatings going on and the stories are telling some pretty terrible tales.  There is obviously propaganda on both sides, but I propose this thread be a thread for current events in Iran.  Rumors, as well as fact.  Of course if they are rumors, please note that they are rumors.
> ...



its nik...nuff' said...he probably gets his panties in a twist if you spell the alleged winner's name funny....like imadejihadinmypants


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

fivethirtyeight.com finds the numbers fishy.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Iran Does Have Some Fishy Numbers


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## Yurt (Jun 15, 2009)

let's assume imadejihadinmypants did rig the election....what are you going to do about it?


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Sullivans site is apparently being hit by a DoS attack.  Any reports of other sites suffering the same?  

Can someone explain this to me:  Supposedly all SMS (text messaging) is down.  So how are people using Twitter?  They seem to be using it remotely, that is on their phones since its a minute to minute update.  Does shutting down SMS not effect twitter for some reason?


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Yurt said:


> let's assume imadejihadinmypants did rig the election....what are you going to do about it?



Nothing as there isn't really anything I can do about it.  What was the purpose of your question exactly?


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Reports of shots into the crowd...but only from one source so far.  No indication of live ammunition or not.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

More reports of shooting.  Also reports of university students killed.  University professors resign en masse to protest the brutality against students.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Huffington Post is running a live blog on the violence. 

Reports from ABC and AP (and now Reuters) of gunshots and deaths.

Now reporting several wounded when shots were fired into a Pro-Mousavi crowd. They have a cell pic up of a building on fire and crowds or protesters around.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Fuck...they are shooting in Azadi Square.  One dead.  More wounded.  This may be Irans Tianneman.


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## Baruch Menachem (Jun 15, 2009)

It looks like the Mullahs didn't learn from the Shah's experience.  

The picture of the mob protecting the cop shows there is a bit of disaffection even among the secret police.   The end of the Shah came when he ordered the use of live ammo on protesters, and the soldiers turned their guns around and joined the mob.

Same thing happened to the Tsar in 1917

Regime change really is the responsibility of the Iranians themselves.  If they want it, they have to make it happen.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Holy shit...reports of more dead too.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Baruch Menachem said:


> It looks like the Mullahs didn't learn from the Shah's experience.
> 
> The picture of the mob protecting the cop shows there is a bit of disaffection even among the secret police.   The end of the Shah came when he ordered the use of live ammo on protesters, and the soldiers turned their guns around and joined the mob.
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How does the picture of the mob protecting the cop show disaffection?  

Also they are using militais apparently.  Something called "Bareej".  Cops/Army were at Azadi square, but weren't doing anything, its the Bareej who are/were killing people.  Same as at the Universities as well.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Water Cannons in Tehran This is a Persian language site, but some stuff is in English. Pretty interesting.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

More links:

First person sources:

persiankiwi (persiankiwi) on Twitter

shandiz - FriendFeed (mostly pics...unless you can read Farsi)

Huffington:
Iran Updates (VIDEO): Live-Blogging The Uprising


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

I saw video this morning of the secret police trying to harass a reporter. The mob surrounded the secret police and chased him away.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> Water Cannons in Tehran This is a Persian language site, but some stuff is in English. Pretty interesting.



Haha, I just posted that site.  Are those water cannons you reckon?  I wasn't sure if they were being used against the crowd, or against the fires.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


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If you look at the pic, the guy operating the cannon is in riot gear with a plexi face shield. That would lead me to believe he is shooting the crowd not the fire.


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## Annie (Jun 15, 2009)

Reports now coming in of at least 15 dead:

Gateway Pundit: Iranian Opposition Leader Defies Ban-- Leads Massive Protest in Tehran (Video) ...Update: Gunfire at Rally- At Least 1 Dead ...Update: 15 Dead

Though it appears to be coming from Twitter, so not so reliable...


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## Yurt (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


> Yurt said:
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> > let's assume imadejihadinmypants did rig the election....what are you going to do about it?
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to see if anyone believes the US should intervene


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## Annie (Jun 15, 2009)

Yurt said:


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I don't think the US should 'do' anything, but it would be nice for the administration to say something about the protests.


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## strollingbones (Jun 15, 2009)

he will slaughter them in the streets unless the military turns on him


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 15, 2009)

Persiankiwi's twitter is pretty amazing. You really get the sense of things on the move.



> # Tajreesh is close to Jamaran where Khamenei live. maybe marching to his house. unconfirmed - #Iranelection12 minutes ago from web
> # cnfirmed - karbaschi and karoubi heading to Tajreesh sq tonight at 11pm - now after 10pm - #Iranelection13 minutes ago from web
> # tonight Kamenei will fight hard - he knows he is close to finish. #Iranelection15 minutes ago from web
> # too much happening too fast - cant keep up. we need more telephones. too much calls - #Iranelection16 minutes ago from web


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## Annie (Jun 15, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> Persiankiwi's twitter is pretty amazing. You really get the sense of things on the move.
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Yep, there's twitter problems, but so far this has been the 'breakout' story they've been waiting for.


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## Yurt (Jun 15, 2009)

Annie said:


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i agree...although i don't know at this point what the US should say about the protests


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Annie said:


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Any idea why Twitter hasn't been blocked?  Can they not block Twitter?


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Iran's Disputed Election - The Big Picture - Boston.com

Pictures...some of them very disturbing.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Obama is supposedly commenting on the situation at 5 PM EST.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

6 students reported dead from last nights beatings at the University...


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Wow...reports of Iranian civilians attacking Basij camps.  Apparently its a backlash from them shooting the protestors before.


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## Sunni Man (Jun 15, 2009)

Ahmadinejad won the election fair and square.

But young thugs and criminals have taken to the streets to spread violence.

Most likely the CIA and Israel are creating and funding the protests.


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Default Viral Title Player

Don't know how to embed that directly...if anyone does would be much appreciated.  It contains, in part, some video of someone shooting into the crowd...


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

Can I please request that this not be put in the Iran section?  I know that Iran is, obviously, about Iran, but it would reach much more eyes in the "current events" section, and it is most certainly a current event.


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## DiveCon (Jun 15, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Ahmadinejad won the election fair and square.
> 
> But young thugs and criminals have taken to the streets to spread violence.
> 
> Most likely the CIA and Israel are creating and funding the protests.


like it really makes a difference which of the two hand picked candidates wins there


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## DiveCon (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


> Can I please request that this not be put in the Iran section? I know that Iran is, obviously, about Iran, but it would reach much more eyes in the "current events" section, and it is most certainly a current event.


i agree, because this IS a current event


oops, i see it has already been moved


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Nik said:
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> ...



Yeah, I didn't post that until after it had been moved.  I'm hoping to have it moved back.  And if you and me agree on something, there must be some truth to it


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## DiveCon (Jun 15, 2009)

Nik said:


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its something that is currently happening
and its not resolved yet

but just who is covering this?
i cant find anything really covering it, not FNC, not CNN, not Headline news, not MSNBC, not CNBC
its times like this i wish Dish Network had Sky News from the UK


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

DiveCon said:


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Bloggers.  There are some links at the beginning of this thread.  Cable news networks completely dropped the ball on this, and even the NY Times is doing a pretty crap job (unless they have a link somewhere that I didn't find).  I'm liking Andrew Sullivan, Huff Post, and Persiankiwi the best.


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## DiveCon (Jun 15, 2009)

bloggers can be so unreliable in so many ways
not that the MSM is really any more reliable


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## Sunni Man (Jun 15, 2009)

DiveCon said:


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As long as who ever is president doesn't like Israel


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## Nik (Jun 15, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> bloggers can be so unreliable in so many ways
> not that the MSM is really any more reliable



There isn't any 100% reliable info on this topic.  Its all small reports that are being filtered out through the media.  And its not like the videos are faked ;p


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## Neser Boha (Jun 15, 2009)

I don't know if it has been talked about here in the thread, but I'd like to point out that there has been an election boycott going on in the last election in Iran (and even prior to that on local municipal level) - thanks to which (the boycott) Ahmadinejad won.  If the boycott hasn't taken place, it probably would have been the pro-reformist candidate (can't remember his name - either Rasfanijani or Mousavi)...  Thanks to the boycotts, many of the protesters have been killed or mysteriously 'disappeared'...

Interesting stuff...


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## Nik (Jun 16, 2009)

Reports of many dead overnight...


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## sealybobo (Jun 16, 2009)

Nik said:


> Wow...reports of Iranian civilians attacking Basij camps.  Apparently its a backlash from them shooting the protestors before.



This is what should have happened in 2000 and 2004 when Bush stole the 2 elections.  Instead we sat on our computers and cried.  

Iranians care more about their vote than we do.  We are lazy.


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## Nik (Jun 16, 2009)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fBp2p3MGJqw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fBp2p3MGJqw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Very disturbing.


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## rhodescholar (Jun 16, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> Nik said:
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> ...



Ugh, Bush "stole" the election, Israel "stole" the land...hysterical that it is always the socialist left - those supporting theft from others' fore their hard work - who complain the loudest about these alleged "thefts."


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## rhodescholar (Jun 16, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Ahmadinejad won the election fair and square.
> 
> But young thugs and criminals have taken to the streets to spread violence.
> 
> Most likely the CIA and Israel are creating and funding the protests.



Total.  Fucking.  Idiot.  Moron.  Troll.  Flushed.


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## sealybobo (Jun 16, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


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Really, how about your side and all their blabbering about ACORN!!!

But you are right.  The people who get robbed usually yell the loudest.


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## Nik (Jun 16, 2009)

Guys....seriously.  I'm posting videos and pics of people being killed and you want to turn this into a partisan pissing match?

Take it to another thread please.


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## rhodescholar (Jun 16, 2009)

sealybobo said:


> Really, how about your side and all their blabbering about ACORN!!!
> 
> But you are right.  The people who get robbed usually yell the loudest.



I am conservative, voted for McCain, and accepted his loss.  I didn't spend 5 months trying to fight it in the courts.  Acorn did not cause McCain to lose, but they did use the names of dead people on the voter rolls, amongst other things.

This is what is makes me laugh at the left, when they lose, someone cheated, but when a conservative loses, "that's what should have happened, and the election was flawless."

Back to the topic, if nothing else, I hope the iranians kill every POS Basij - who the media seems unwilling to point out is primarily made up of imported palestinians to do the dirty muscle work - that they can.

If the US won't invade, at least they should arm the civilians so that they can take on the Basij on equal footing.  The iranian army is unlikely to get actively involved, so its really a street fight between the imported palestinians and the freedom loving iranians being attacked.

Also interesting how this could never happen in the US, given the level of weaponry already in possession of the public.  Hopefully, the next time the gun-control idiots think of screeching for more laws and restrictions, they might remember situations like this, where an awful dictatorship is always willing to attack an unarmed civilian pop - until the civvies arm themselves...


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## L.K.Eder (Jun 16, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> sealybobo said:
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Back that one up!


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## sealybobo (Jun 16, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> sealybobo said:
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Yes, McCain lost, no question about it.  No need to spend any time in court or protesting that loss.  

ACORN ='S VOTER FRAUD  Not even actually because it was ACORN employees who turned in fraudulent registrations and they never actually got processed or registered. 

FLORIDA & OHIO = ELECTION FRAUD

And the Iranians have more balls than we do.  They at least protest when their election is stolen.  I just go online and cry and you actually defend our democracy being hijacked.


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## sealybobo (Jun 16, 2009)

Nik said:


> Guys....seriously.  I'm posting videos and pics of people being killed and you want to turn this into a partisan pissing match?
> 
> Take it to another thread please.



Video's and clips of people being killed.  Oh my.  

I'm just impressed because they are standing up for what they believe in.  What's it called, "civil disobediance"?

And they are making Amadenijad look corrupt.  He loves to come to America and act so cool and in control.  And arrogant.  Well now he must be embarrassed.  He loves to call America out for our flaws.  

I would love to see some gays protesting.  But that's impossible because Iran has no gays.


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## Sunni Man (Jun 16, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


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What's the matter Rhodes?

Can't stand the Truth!!!!


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## Sunni Man (Jun 16, 2009)

Ahmadinejad is a true Iranian patriot and refuses to bow down to Israel and the West.

I only wish America had leaders of his caliber running this country.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 16, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Ahmadinejad is a true Iranian patriot and refuses to bow down to Israel and the West.
> 
> I only wish America had leaders of his caliber running this country.



No, you REALLY don't wish that. If we did have our own "Imanutjob" in charge, there wouldn't be a middle east to speak of. Just a land of glass and oil bereft of inhabitants.


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## Tech_Esq (Jun 16, 2009)

What's the latest? I'm behind a content filter and twitter is blocked.


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## Sunni Man (Jun 16, 2009)

Ahmadinejad is refered to as a nutjob by the west because #1 he doesn't believe in the Holocaust.

Heck, half of the world denies the Holohoax nonsense story.

And #2, he want's his country to do nuclear.

I would venture to say, that almost every leader of every nation has a desire for their country to become nuclear.


----------



## Tech_Esq (Jun 16, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> Ahmadinejad is refered to as a nutjob by the west because #1 he doesn't believe in the Holocaust.
> 
> Heck, half of the world denies the Holohoax nonsense story.
> 
> ...



Why does half the world deny the holocaust?

Why does "almost every leader of every nation" want nuclear weapons?

I was gonna say more, but I'll start there.


----------



## Nik (Jun 16, 2009)

Tech_Esq said:


> What's the latest? I'm behind a content filter and twitter is blocked.



Fewer and fewer amounts of information coming out of the country.  Iranian government is creating false twitter accounts.  Lots of rumors going around, hard to tell whats true and whats false.  

That being said, as much as I can tell there were massive rallies today.  I heard that pro-Mousavi and pro-Ahmadinejad rallies were timed for similar times/places (by state media to create conflict).  I don't know what the result of this was, reports from today seem to be mostly peaceful.  That being said, there are more and more videos coming out, some today have been really brutal.  Pictures of people dying on camera and the like, its pretty horrific.  

Some tweets that Sullivan has aggregated:



> we told everybody to get out and leave dorms. but most of the student got no where to go & no relatives in Tehran.
> 
> it looks they are going to attack dorms again! IRG's chopper just passed by Yousefabad. there is noting left to destroy over there!
> 
> ...



Also of note:



> « Are These The First Signs Of A Civil War? | Main | Live-Tweeting The Revolution »
> 
> 16 Jun 2009 12:56 pm
> 
> ...



Are people actually interested in this?  I am happy to aggregate information, but it really seems like, sadly, only a few people give a shit about whats going on over there.


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 16, 2009)

> Originally Posted by Sunni Man
> Ahmadinejad is refered to as a nutjob by the west because #1 he doesn't believe in the Holocaust. Heck, half of the world denies the Holohoax nonsense story. And #2, he want's his country to do nuclear. I would venture to say, that almost every leader of every nation has a desire for their country to become nuclear.



SM is an animal asshole, a post like this affirms my decision to place this piece of turd in the IB, haven't seen the asshole do anything but troll...


----------



## Sunni Man (Jun 16, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> > Originally Posted by Sunni Man
> > Ahmadinejad is refered to as a nutjob by the west because #1 he doesn't believe in the Holocaust. Heck, half of the world denies the Holohoax nonsense story. And #2, he want's his country to do nuclear. I would venture to say, that almost every leader of every nation has a desire for their country to become nuclear.
> 
> 
> ...


That's as good of an excuse as any to hide Rhodes.

After all I have defeated you in every post you have made.


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## DiveCon (Jun 16, 2009)

Sunni Man said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > > Originally Posted by Sunni Man
> ...



you havent defeated ANYONE


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## rhodescholar (Jun 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> you havent defeated ANYONE



The infantile taunting and trolling, using statements to incite and draw people into flame wars/shouting matches, is indicative of a weak minded poster unable to offer genuine, intelligent discourse.  They simply swoop into a thread and drop a moronic statement, checking up later to see if someone has taken the bait.

If there is anyone who Gunny should give a week or two timeout to, this zero is it.  Before I put the idiot on ignore for good, I skimmed its other posts and it is an equal opportunity troller; it pollutes all and every thread it visits...clearly, it is only here to waste the time of those foolish enough not to have put it on Ignore yet...


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## del (Jun 16, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > you havent defeated ANYONE
> ...



why don't you grow a pair and stop whining?


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## L.K.Eder (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...



Hello rhodescholar, can you please back up your claim or retract?


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## Neser Boha (Jun 17, 2009)

*Gasiorowski, Mark. &#8220;Islamic Republic of Iran,&#8221; in David E. Long, Bernard Reich, and Mark Gasiorowski, eds., The Government and Politics of the Middle East and North Africa, Fifth Edition (Boulder: Westview Press, 2007)*.

Interesting information from a reliable source:

*Topic #1: Conservatives (the bad guys) vs. the Reformists (the lesser evil) in Iran*



> The conservatives continued to attack the reformists and block their reform initiatives during Khatami's second term.  In addition, the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the subsequent US declaration that Iran was part of an "axis of evil," and the US invasion of Iraq in March 2003 created growing fear that the United States might attack Iran, strengthening the conservatives' determination to stop the reformists.


Calling what the Bush contingent caused a faux pas would be too lenient... but let's go on...

*Topic #2: Political Culture of Islam*

From the same chapter of the same book in the section labeled "Political Culture":


> "Another recurring theme in Iran's modern history has been an emphasis on political pluralism, reflecting not only the growing importance of the modern middle class but also the country's *Shi'a traditions, which include a tendency to support multiple religious leaders and norms of legalism, inclusiveness, and consensus-building* among the clergy.


  This is simply yet another quote proving that Islam is compatible with democracy (I've had that argument on this board before)...but let's go on...

*Topic #3: Run-up to Iran-Contra Affair*



> "During the first few years of the Islamic regime, Iran purchased large quantities of weapons from *Israel, which was the only country willing to flaunt US efforts to block the flow of US-made arms to Iran at this time*.  These Israeli arms sales eventually led to the 1985-1986 Iran-Contra Affair, in which Iran bought arms directly from the United States."


 Oops!    This I quoted just so you can too, have a bit of a laugh at the irony...

Another interesting article worth reading: *Boroumand, Ladan. (2005) "Iran's Peculiar Election: The Role of Ideology." Journal of Democracy. Vol 16, No. 4. *

*'The election game' in Iran*



> ...Article 59 of the constitution reduces them [elections] to mere manifestations of "public opinion" and thus reconciles them with divine sovereignty by downgrading their significance... no candidate can run, and no election result be made official, until the unelected Council of Guardians gives its approval.



Then why do they still hold elections?  (These are my notes from the text):


> 1. Inside and outside, Shi'ite Muslim Ayattolahs question Khomeini's arguments on which Iran is based (the divinity of his rule over Iran, etc.) - elections with a high turnout make dissenters seem marginal.
> 2. In order to provide a buffer against foreign and clerical criticism and in order to reassure foreign investors.
> Therefore ==> It is extremely important for today's Iranian leaders to maintain high voter turnout. Some would argue, their survival depends on it, hence...
> 
> ...


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## Sunni Man (Jun 17, 2009)

del said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Rhodes Scholar is a wimp and a fraud.

He talks alot but can't back up his mouth.

He reminds me of the draft dodgers during the Vietnam War.

Can't face the logic of the opposition. So they run and hide.


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## rhodescholar (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> Hello rhodescholar, can you please back up your claim or retract?



See here:

RFE/RL Iran Report

"23 October 2000, Volume  3, Number  40

"HIZBALLAH AND PALESTINIANS INVOLVED IN BASIJ EXERCISES...Hizballah and PIJ or HAMAS participation in the current exercises supports reports by the Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran that Arabic-speaking Lebanese mercenaries were among the hardline forces who attacked student demonstrators in July 2000 (see "RFE/RL Iran Report," 17 July 2000)."


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## Nik (Jun 17, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > Hello rhodescholar, can you please back up your claim or retract?
> ...



That was from 2000, 9 years ago.  Any information on Basij forces now?  

And you said it was "primarily" made up of Palestinians, not that some Palestinians were involved in it.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Jun 17, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > Hello rhodescholar, can you please back up your claim or retract?
> ...



thanks for the attempt, but this is not enough.

some alleged lebanese almost 10 years ago do not make the basij primarily palestinian.

you as an ME expert surely know the difference between shiite lebanese hizbullah and sunni palestinians. there are rumors that NOW about 5000 lebanese hezbullah fighters are among the basij. unconfirmed of course.

you'd be better off to retract your claim.


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## rhodescholar (Jun 17, 2009)

Nik said:


> That was from 2000, 9 years ago.  Any information on Basij forces now?
> 
> And you said it was "primarily" made up of Palestinians, not that some Palestinians were involved in it.



LOL, perfect timing, J-Post to the rescue:

Protesters tell "Post' Hamas helping Iran crush dissent | Iran news | Jerusalem Post

Jun 17, 2009 10:03 | Updated Jun 17, 2009 15:27
'Hamas helping Iran crush dissent'
By SABINA AMIDI, SPECIAL TO THE JERUSALEM POST 
TEHERAN

Palestinian Hamas members are helping the Iranian authorities crush street protests in support of reformist presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, two protesters told The Jerusalem Post On Tuesday.

Election riots in Teheran 
They made their allegations as rioting on a scale unseen in Iran for nearly a decade continued in the wake of the elections and the allegations that the results were falsified. The protests have now spread from Teheran to other major cities.

Mousavi insisted on Tuesday that he would "protect" his supporters' votes "at all cost, even if I am at risk."

Shouting from a car roof to a roaring crowd of supporters, he declared: "The pillars of the revolution have been shaken... We must not be silent."

Hamas formally welcomed incumbent Ahmadinejad's ostensible reelection victory on Saturday. The Palestinian Islamist movement receives arms and funding from Iran, and its members have often received training there, including in terror tactics and weapons manufacture.

Despite a massive crackdown on dissent, thousands of protesters rallied again in Teheran on Tuesday night in support of Mousavi, following reports that up to 20 people had been killed by security forces at rallies across Iran against the disputed results of last week's presidential elections.

Pro-government gunmen, reportedly opening fire on protesters, killed at least seven people on Monday night and others have been wounded.

State radio reports claimed that the victims were trying to loot weapons and to vandalize public property, and were shot by unidentified gunmen.

People claiming to have witnessed the shootings, however, insist that the victims were peaceful demonstrators, including students from Teheran university. "There are so many crimes, beatings and killings that have yet to be reported. When we fight back, it is for our own protection," said a young man passing out flyers with the names of those he said were murdered Teheran University students.

Among those named were Fatima Brahati, Kasra Sharafi, Kambiz Shahi, Mohsen Emani and Mina Ahtrami. Their bodies are said to have been secretly buried by government loyalists.

Amid the violence, confusion and government restrictions on communication, the accuracy of conflicting accounts is hard to ascertain.

"The most important thing that I believe people outside of Iran should be aware of," the young man went on, "is the participation of Palestinian forces in these riots."

Another protester, who spoke as he carried a kitchen knife in one hand and a stone in the other, also cited the presence of Hamas in Teheran.

On Monday, he said, "my brother had his ribs beaten in by those Palestinian animals. Taking our people's money is not enough, they are thirsty for our blood too."

It was ironic, this man said, that the victorious Ahmadinejad "tells us to pray for the young Palestinians, suffering at the hands of Israel." His hope, he added, was that Israel would "come to its senses" and ruthlessly deal with the Palestinians.

* When asked if these militia fighters could have been mistaken for Lebanese Shi'ites, sent by Hizbullah, he rejected the idea. "Ask anyone, they will tell you the same thing. They [Palestinian extremists] are out beating Iranians in the streets The more we gave this arrogant race, the more they want [But] we will not let them push us around in our own country."*

Mousavi has said he won Friday's balloting, and he demanded the government annul Ahmadinejad's victory and hold a new election.

Iran's state radio said seven people were killed in clashes at Monday's protest - the first official confirmation of deaths linked to the street battles following the disputed vote.

It said people were killed during an "unauthorized gathering" at a mass rally after protesters "tried to attack a military location." Witnesses saw people firing from the roof of a building used by a state-backed militia after Mousavi supporters set fire to the building and tried to storm it.

Mousavi supporters had called for demonstrations on Tuesday, but Mousavi said in a message on his Web site he would not be attending any rally and asked his supporters to "not fall in the trap of street riots," and to "exercise self-restraint." Foreign reporters in Iran to cover last week's elections began leaving the country on Tuesday after officials said they would not extend their visas.

Authorities restricted other journalists, including Iranians working for foreign media, from reporting on the streets, and said they could only work from their offices, conducting telephone interviews and monitoring official sources such as state TV.

At least ten Iranian journalists have been arrested since the election, "and we are very worried about them, we don't know where they have been detained," Jean-Francois Julliard, secretary general of Reporters Without Borders told AP Television News in Paris. He added that some people who took pictures with cellphones were also arrested.

The government imposed rules prevent media outlets, including The Associated Press, from sending independent photos or video of street protests or rallies.

Yaakov Katz, Herb Keinon, Rebecca Anna Stoil, AP and JPost.com staff contributed to this report.


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> thanks for the attempt, but this is not enough.
> 
> some alleged lebanese almost 10 years ago do not make the basij primarily palestinian.
> 
> ...



BWahahahahahahahahahahahaah.  Want a towel to clean that egg off your face, kid?


----------



## Nik (Jun 17, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for the attempt, but this is not enough.
> ...



Thats a poorly sourced article that I've seen absolutely no independent confirmation of from primary sources, or from anywhere else.  Which seems very strange considering the claim in the article that "Ask anyone, they will tell you the same thing. They [Palestinian extremists] are out beating Iranians in the streets".

You are going to have to do better than that as well.


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## rhodescholar (Jun 17, 2009)

Nik said:


> Thats a poorly sourced article that I've seen absolutely no independent confirmation of from primary sources, or from anywhere else.  Which seems very strange considering the claim in the article that "Ask anyone, they will tell you the same thing. They [Palestinian extremists] are out beating Iranians in the streets".
> 
> You are going to have to do better than that as well.



Fucking hilarious.  A MSM news source is provided, and still she questions it. 

Sorry charlie, you asked for a source, and I provided one of the best.  You don't want to accept it, that's your business.  I finished my responsiblities, you just lack the character and sense to admit it, and give credit where its due.  You're failure is duly noted.


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## Nik (Jun 17, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> Nik said:
> 
> 
> > Thats a poorly sourced article that I've seen absolutely no independent confirmation of from primary sources, or from anywhere else.  Which seems very strange considering the claim in the article that "Ask anyone, they will tell you the same thing. They [Palestinian extremists] are out beating Iranians in the streets".
> ...



I'm not a she.  And the MSM didn't stake their credibility on the truth of the claims, they just cited two protestors.  I find it odd, also, that the protestors seem to have a visceral hatred of Palestinians, it makes me a bit hesitant to accept their accounts.  

I'm not interested in your partisan bitching, I'm interested in whats actually going on over there.  I've been following the news very closely from a variety of sources.  The Iranian government has started fake twitter accounts and so I've had some experience in the past 24-48 hours of trying to figure out which twitter accounts are fake and which aren't.  Give that, the quotes from the "protestors" seems very much out of line with the type of language and attitude I've heard from other Iranian dissidents.  That combined with the fact that its only 2 individuals, and I haven't heard this from anywhere else leaves me feeling a bit uncertain about the outcome.  

But believe whatever you want.  I'm not interested in trying to convince you one way or the other, but if you come up with something more reliable, since you seem to have an axe to grind, feel free to post it.


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## DiveCon (Jun 17, 2009)

Nik said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Nik said:
> ...


persian vs arab
its a centuries old battle


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## L.K.Eder (Jun 17, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for the attempt, but this is not enough.
> ...



That was a nice experiment, you did not disappoint. you made a ridiculous claim, blaming the media and palestinians. you found no backup, and did not man up and retract your on the face false statement. you are a garden variety internet loudmouth with no honor and no self-awareness. jpost to the rescue, bwhahahahaha. you could join the basij, they are looking for old men, too. you certainly have the right mindset. didn't i tell you to fuck off before, yes i did. so once again, fuck off, hahah.


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## Sunni Man (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...


That was typical Rhodes Scholar behavior.

He shoots his mouth off'

Then when you present him with the facts. He puts you on ignore.

Soon he will have half of the board on ignore. 

Basically, he only likes to debate with those who agree with his infantile veiws.


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## rhodescholar (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> That was a nice experiment, you did not disappoint. you made a ridiculous claim, blaming the media and palestinians. you found no backup, and did not man up and retract your on the face false statement. you are a garden variety internet loudmouth with no honor and no self-awareness. jpost to the rescue, bwhahahahaha. you could join the basij, they are looking for old men, too. you certainly have the right mindset. didn't i tell you to fuck off before, yes i did. so once again, fuck off, hahah.



The only difference between an idiot like sunni man and you is you embellish your BS in longer sentences, but you end up at the same place: pure lies and endless stupidity.

I made a comment, you asked for a link to support it, I gave one from a well-respected MAINSTREAM NEWS SOURCE, no less, and now you complain about the link.  

You are worthless trash, a far left turd who cannot own up to the fact that you got humiliated by a conservative.  You're as weak a piece of trash as shogun, at least he has an excuse note from his special ed teacher, what's yours weakie?


----------



## L.K.Eder (Jun 17, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > That was a nice experiment, you did not disappoint. you made a ridiculous claim, blaming the media and palestinians. you found no backup, and did not man up and retract your on the face false statement. you are a garden variety internet loudmouth with no honor and no self-awareness. jpost to the rescue, bwhahahahaha. you could join the basij, they are looking for old men, too. you certainly have the right mindset. didn't i tell you to fuck off before, yes i did. so once again, fuck off, hahah.
> ...



i can do short sentences also:

i am embarrassed for you.  but just a little. 

mainly i am amused. keep up the good work, conservative.


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> i can do short sentences also:
> 
> i am embarrassed for you.  but just a little.
> 
> mainly i am amused. keep up the good work, conservative.



Oooooh, she called me a "conservative," I guess in the tiny pea brain of a socialist that that is a dirty word.

Stop living off of my hard work and productivity monkey, and go get a job.


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## L.K.Eder (Jun 17, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > i can do short sentences also:
> ...



I called you a conservative, because you called yourself a conservative in the post i responded to, remember, the unhinged one. sorry this is not a very good hint, most of your posts are unhinged. sorry about that, too.

i truly wonder with what cliches and inanities you will answer the next time.

how about calling me marxist or muslim. or unwashed? or animal? you like that one, right?
or declare that i have a small dick, hmm you already decided that i am female, no problem with you, you can contradict yourself within 2 words without further brain damage. maybe i am female? who knows? not you. or you could complain about me insulting you.

or do the heroic thing and put me on ignore. and brag about it like a real man, clown.


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## Sunni Man (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...


Putting people on ignore is the cowards way out.

Rhodes Scholar seems to put alot of people on ignore.


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## rhodescholar (Jun 17, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> I called you a conservative, because you called yourself a conservative in the post i responded to, remember, the unhinged one. sorry this is not a very good hint, most of your posts are unhinged. sorry about that, too.
> 
> i truly wonder with what cliches and inanities you will answer the next time.
> 
> ...



The only thing worth mentioning is that you are a fucking moron, and are embarrassing yourself before the board, idiot.

I made a claim, backed it up, you and Nik asked for a link, got it from a MSM site, and now cannot accept defeat.

Weak trash go fuck yourself douchebag.  Why put an idiot on Ignore when I have already just been skipping your useless posts, which I've noticed get no responses anywhere on the board?  FUCKING ZERO.


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## L.K.Eder (Jun 18, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > I called you a conservative, because you called yourself a conservative in the post i responded to, remember, the unhinged one. sorry this is not a very good hint, most of your posts are unhinged. sorry about that, too.
> ...



Back that one up!

I am still snickering about your "j-post to the rescue".


----------



## rhodescholar (Jun 18, 2009)

L.K.Eder said:


> Back that one up!
> 
> I am still snickering about your "j-post to the rescue".



Sucks to be a sore loser, I know.

See my sig for more information...


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## Nik (Jun 18, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > Back that one up!
> ...



Speaking of being a sore loser...can you point to where in the J post article is said that Basij were *primarily* made up of Palestinians?


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## L.K.Eder (Jun 18, 2009)

Nik said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...



don't challenge the man, he will defeat you.


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## editec (Jun 18, 2009)

God bless the Iranian people.

One can only hope that they can throw off their religious fruitcakes' oppression which has been plauging them for well over a generation.

*The people, united, will never been defeated.*


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## rhodescholar (Jun 18, 2009)

Nik said:


> ...can you point to where in the J post article is said that Basij were *primarily* made up of Palestinians?



You are correct, the article does not mention they are "primarily" palestinians, but IIRC both you and the other turd challenging me on this point claimed incorrectly that "there were no palestinians involved", which the article showed to be false.

The other poster claimed that the article was false outright, which is bullshit, as this fact is all over iranian-based blogs by iranians inside iran, and is a claim that has been around for a long time.

All I had to do was edit my post to remove "primarily," but you both were wrong about the overall facts in the case.  Arabs HAVE been attacking iranians as part of paramilitary groups aligned with the government, and if you refuse to believe it, fucking good for you.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Jun 18, 2009)

editec said:


> God bless the Iranian people.
> 
> One can only hope that they can throw off their religious fruitcakes' oppression which has been plauging them for well over a generation.
> 
> *The people, united, will never been defeated.*



And the Iranian people experienced another sort of oppression before the religious fruitcakes were in charge. Not that it matters if your family members were slaughtered by the Shah's henchmen or by Khomeini's.

Here is a link to an open letter by Afshin Ellian, an exiled Iranian, to Khamenei.

It is long but quite interesting.

It starts with this:



> To His Excellency Ayatollah Said Ali Khamenei,
> 
> A year before the Iranian Revolution, a member of my family had the great
> privilege of praying beside you. Later, during the revolution, this anecdote became a source of great pride within our family. This relative of mine had prayed with you and yet he, like myself, was forced to go into hiding soon after the revolution.



I visited Iran and got to know some Iranians. One was a Tehrani student who had still problems with breathing because of the 1999 attacks on Tehran universities by militias. He was my seat neighbor in the plane from Tehran to Tabriz and sort of kidnapped me to the suburbs of Tabriz where he knew a family where we could stay for the night. Strange experience, very nice people. But I did not manage to see Tabriz the way I wanted to.

I just shared this personal anecdote to show that I am actually interested in the things happening in Iran and to and from the Iranian people.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Jun 18, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> Nik said:
> 
> 
> > ...can you point to where in the J post article is said that Basij were *primarily* made up of Palestinians?
> ...



I guess I am the other turd. I am here to inform you, that you did not recall correctly.

If i am also the "other poster", you misrepresent what i stated. I did not claim the article was false alright. I don't care for your Jpost rumors that rescued you, bwahah. I called your statement "on the face false". And it is.

You made an indefensible stupid exaggerated statement, i called you on it. You could have retracted, you could have edited your post to delete "primarily". but you also had to slam "the media" additionally to palestinians.

But apart from your ongoing misrepresentations your last post was actually the kind of clarification i was looking for.



> Arabs HAVE been attacking iranians as part of paramilitary groups aligned with the government



if you had used this sort of statement in the first post, i would never have butted in. i have never seen anything but rumors though supporting this statement.


----------



## Nik (Jun 18, 2009)

rhodescholar said:


> Nik said:
> 
> 
> > ...can you point to where in the J post article is said that Basij were *primarily* made up of Palestinians?
> ...



You don't recall correctly.  I never said there were no Palestinians involved.  You seem to have assumed I hold a position I don't actually hold, which is perhaps the source of your, frankly, idiotic statements on this topic.


----------



## Sunni Man (Jun 18, 2009)

editec said:


> God bless the Iranian people.
> 
> One can only hope that they can throw off their religious fruitcakes' oppression which has been plauging them for well over a generation.
> 
> *The people, united, will never been defeated.*


The Iranian people have been blessed in having a great leader like Ahmadinejad.

He is a true patriot who puts Iran first and doesn't bow down to any other nation. 

He ignores the idiotic West and sees Israel for the evil nation it truely is.


----------

