# Windows 8



## JoeB131

My family bought me a new laptop for Christmas with Windows 8 on it.  

Honestly I don't like the operating system at all.  I think what they were going for was to make it more like a Smart Phone than a traditional computer, but seriously, it's just kind of awful.


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## iamwhatiseem

We bought a laptop for our son, he will be graduating high school this year so we got it in preparation of college.
 He hates it. In messing around with it - I don't like it either. 
I agree with you - it looks like an OS for a tablet/phone than a computer. 
Today we are going to see about dual booting with Linux Mint. I have not looked into whether there are issues with dual booting as there was in Win 7.


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## Connery

I have had a windows 8 with a touch screen for a bit of a while.  So far I enjoy it and find it very functional for my purposes.


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## iamwhatiseem

Connery said:


> I have had a windows 8 with a touch screen for a bit of a while.  So far I enjoy it and find it very functional for my purposes.



*"with a touch screen"* - that is the difference.
Win8 is clearly designed for a touch interface...without it...is a different experience.


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## Connery

iamwhatiseem said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have had a windows 8 with a touch screen for a bit of a while.  So far I enjoy it and find it very functional for my purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"with a touch screen"* - that is the difference.
> Win8 is clearly designed for a touch interface...without it...is a different experience.
Click to expand...


Actually I had a laptop without the touchscreen and it was abysmal, so I agree with you. I am more able to multitask with a touch screen and I have an all in one for my primary with an iPad and a smart phone for portable connectivity so this seems to be the best of all worlds for my purposes.

I am really enjoying the bluetooth marriage of devices as well.


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## iamwhatiseem

The silly thing is - everyone will click on the "got to desktop" button as soon as they login.
Which basically reverts the computer back to Win7 and removes the main Win8 functionality. Hilarious.


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## Connery

iamwhatiseem said:


> The silly thing is - everyone will click on the "got to desktop" button as soon as they login.
> Which basically reverts the computer back to Win7 and removes the main Win8 functionality. Hilarious.



Hehe, yep I like the tiles and the various other things this came with I am still exploring these functions and all. 

I was going to get a surface pro as opposed to an iPad, but, that was far too much computer for what I wanted.


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## nitroz

windows 8 is garbage.


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## idb

I'm desperately clinging onto my XP for as long as I can!!!


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## Dot Com

Connery said:


> I have had a windows 8 with a touch screen for a bit of a while.  So far I enjoy it and find it very functional for my purposes.



Yes, I thought I read where it was primarily designed w/ touch screen in mind. I think that they think that mobile computing, like w/ touch screen phones, is the wave of the future.


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## JoeB131

Dot Com said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have had a windows 8 with a touch screen for a bit of a while.  So far I enjoy it and find it very functional for my purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I thought I read where it was primarily designed w/ touch screen in mind. I think that they think that mobile computing, like w/ touch screen phones, is the wave of the future.
Click to expand...


Well, some of us are old people and we like our  Pull down menus, Dammit!!!!


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## Politico

Nothing wrong with touch screen being the future for phones. On  a computer it's just too gay.

Don't they have the option to make it work like classic windows?


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## alan1

Politico said:


> Nothing wrong with touch screen being the future for phones. On  a computer it's just too gay.
> 
> Don't they have the option to make it work like classic windows?



There is an option for a "Desktop View", put even that doesn't have the classic start button that so many of us are used to using.

FYI, I got a new Win8 computer a week ago.  It is taking some time to get used to navigating because the look, feel and navigation are very different.


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## alan1

If anybody has questions or advice, I created this thread,  http://www.usmessageboard.com/computers/269659-windows-8-tips-and-support.html#post6555675
Let's help each other out.


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## Connery

Dot Com said:


> Connery said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have had a windows 8 with a touch screen for a bit of a while.  So far I enjoy it and find it very functional for my purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I thought I read where it was primarily designed w/ touch screen in mind. I think that they think that mobile computing, like w/ touch screen phones, is the wave of the future.
Click to expand...


 I believe so, without the touch screen it is very disappointing.


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## Flopper

I love Windows 8.  Why? Because Windows 7 and Vista will be around a long time and I will not have to go through another iteration of Microsoft redesigning their user interface, at least not for a few more years.


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## JoeB131

Politico said:


> Nothing wrong with touch screen being the future for phones. On  a computer it's just too gay.
> 
> Don't they have the option to make it work like classic windows?



They probably do, but I haven't drilled down far enough on it yet... I only got if two days ago.


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## longknife

Flopper said:


> I love Windows 8.  Why? Because Windows 7 and Vista will be around a long time and I will not have to go through another iteration of Microsoft redesigning their user interface, at least not for a few more years.



Vista sucks! I hate it, it's so slow. I think XP was a 1,000 times better.

A techie I know says he'll stick to 7 and I think I'll upgrade to that after the new year.


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## idb

Politico said:


> Nothing wrong with touch screen being the future for phones. On  a computer it's just too gay.
> 
> Don't they have the option to make it work like classic windows?



I think the future of computers is both touch screens and keyboards.
The new Touch is Microsoft's vision.


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## Flopper

longknife said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love Windows 8.  Why? Because Windows 7 and Vista will be around a long time and I will not have to go through another iteration of Microsoft redesigning their user interface, at least not for a few more years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vista sucks! I hate it, it's so slow. I think XP was a 1,000 times better.
> 
> A techie I know says he'll stick to 7 and I think I'll upgrade to that after the new year.
Click to expand...

I thought XP was great.  The problem is the world changes and XP stays the same.  So when there are interface problems between applications, either local or on the Net, you have to just live with those problems because Microsoft is not going to fix them and applications developers have bigger fish to fry.

With each new version of windows, the benefits of upgrading become less and less.  Of course who upgrades for the new features anyway?  If you buy a new computer you have to upgrade to the new operating system.


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## idb

Flopper said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love Windows 8.  Why? Because Windows 7 and Vista will be around a long time and I will not have to go through another iteration of Microsoft redesigning their user interface, at least not for a few more years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vista sucks! I hate it, it's so slow. I think XP was a 1,000 times better.
> 
> A techie I know says he'll stick to 7 and I think I'll upgrade to that after the new year.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought XP was great.  The problem is the world changes and XP stays the same.  So when there are interface problems between applications, either local or on the Net, you have to just live with those problems because Microsoft is not going to fix them and applications developers have bigger fish to fry.
> 
> With each new version of windows, the benefits of upgrading become less and less.  Of course who upgrades for the new features anyway?  If you buy a new computer you have to upgrade to the new operating system.
Click to expand...


Apparently, XP is still the second most popular operating system in the world
Operating system market share


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## nitroz

idb said:


> I'm desperately clinging onto my XP for as long as I can!!!



windows 7 isn't bad at all. But it's ideal for a more modern computer.

With each newer build, you need a more powerful system.


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## nitroz

alan1 said:


> If anybody has questions or advice, I created this thread,  http://www.usmessageboard.com/computers/269659-windows-8-tips-and-support.html#post6555675
> Let's help each other out.



Add the tutorial on how to downgrade to windows 7.


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## iamwhatiseem

Windows 7 is fine. With it's improved security...er...security at all, which is a new thing for Microsoft - Win7 is better than XP for that reason alone.
Now that I have seen Win8 - it is clearly a slightly altered Win 7 with a touchscreen interface laid on top. So if you have a touchscreen - fine - if not, the first thing you will do is click "desktop view" every single time and ignore all of the Win 8 features.


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## Caroljo

I just got a new laptop yesterday with windows 8.....not sure what i think of it yet, it's so different than the XP i had.  Maybe once i get used to it, and figure out where everything is on it i might like it.  But i'm just not sure yet.


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## idb

Caroljo said:


> I just got a new laptop yesterday with windows 8.....not sure what i think of it yet, it's so different than the XP i had.  Maybe once i get used to it, and figure out where everything is on it i might like it.  But i'm just not sure yet.



Yeah, the leap from XP to 8 must be a bit daunting.
I'm not looking forward to it when the time comes.


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## Ringel05

idb said:


> Caroljo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just got a new laptop yesterday with windows 8.....not sure what i think of it yet, it's so different than the XP i had.  Maybe once i get used to it, and figure out where everything is on it i might like it.  But i'm just not sure yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the leap from XP to 8 must be a bit daunting.
> I'm not looking forward to it when the time comes.
Click to expand...


It'll be like moving from an abacus to an electric calculator.


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## Soggy in NOLA

I just got a Dell XPS 12 with Windows 8.... kinda cool, but Win 8 is just a tablet OS with Start screen instead of a Start Menu.

It took me a day to figure out how to close apps in touch-pad mode from the Start Screen.


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## Flopper

Soggy in NOLA said:


> I just got a Dell XPS 12 with Windows 8.... kinda cool, but Win 8 is just a tablet OS with Start screen instead of a Start Menu.
> 
> It took me a day to figure out how to close apps in touch-pad mode from the Start Screen.


I find most of the windows enhancements in new versions, not worth the upgrade.  It's takes time to learn how to use them and too often the enhancements aren't that much of an enhancement.  Then there are the surprises like some of your old favorite programs must be upgraded in order to get them to run properly.  I never upgrade anymore unless there is no other alternative.


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## MikeK

idb said:


> I'm desperately clinging onto my XP for as long as I can!!!


I _clung_ until last month when my Acer XP desktop had a fatal stroke.  I now have a Win/7 system which isn't bad.  But I really hate having to relocate.  I become so accustomed that everything I normally do is second nature then I must start all over again.


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## Flopper

The problem with the direction Microsoft has taken with regard to their operating system is to make each new release easier to use by changing the user interface.  This is fine for new users but what about existing users?  With each new release of Windows the user has to learn a new interface.  What use to be in one place is somewhere else.  What once was part of the operating system is in an application or no longer exists.  Applications and hardware that worked on the old release may not work on the new release. 

I worked in a support capacity for a large organization that had many thousands of computers.  The one thing management hated was a new release of windows.  Converting to the new release was always costly and there was usually little to be gained.


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## iamwhatiseem

idb said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with touch screen being the future for phones. On  a computer it's just too gay.
> 
> Don't they have the option to make it work like classic windows?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the future of computers is both touch screens and keyboards.
> The new Touch is Microsoft's vision.
Click to expand...


Uh...no.
It is not their vision, it is their attempt to get into the tablet market where they are almost non-existent. They have made several attempts into that market and flat out get pummeled by the far-far-far better performance of Android and iPad. So, their "vision" is to try and make a tablet more like a mini-laptop, where they have a chance.
Windows 8 is obviously designed for touchscreen. Without touchscreen, no one likes it. Their hope is everyone will want to buy a touchscreen laptop.


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## Flopper

iamwhatiseem said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Politico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with touch screen being the future for phones. On  a computer it's just too gay.
> 
> Don't they have the option to make it work like classic windows?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the future of computers is both touch screens and keyboards.
> The new Touch is Microsoft's vision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh...no.
> It is not their vision, it is their attempt to get into the tablet market where they are almost non-existent. They have made several attempts into that market and flat out get pummeled by the far-far-far better performance of Android and iPad. So, their "vision" is to try and make a tablet more like a mini-laptop, where they have a chance.
> Windows 8 is obviously designed for touchscreen. Without touchscreen, no one likes it. Their hope is everyone will want to buy a touchscreen laptop.
Click to expand...

I certainly won't be one of them.  On average, people spend only 15% of their computer time interfacing with the computer.  We spend most of our time at the computer, reading, listening, watching videos, and just thinking not typing, mousing, or swiping screens.

Microsoft's motive in changing the interface with each new release of Windows has little to do with productivity and a lot to do with marketing.


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## iamwhatiseem

Flopper said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the future of computers is both touch screens and keyboards.
> The new Touch is Microsoft's vision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh...no.
> It is not their vision, it is their attempt to get into the tablet market where they are almost non-existent. They have made several attempts into that market and flat out get pummeled by the far-far-far better performance of Android and iPad. So, their "vision" is to try and make a tablet more like a mini-laptop, where they have a chance.
> Windows 8 is obviously designed for touchscreen. Without touchscreen, no one likes it. Their hope is everyone will want to buy a touchscreen laptop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I certainly won't be one of them.  On average, people spend only 15% of their computer time interfacing with the computer.  We spend most of our time at the computer, reading, listening, watching videos, and just thinking not typing, mousing, or swiping screens.
> 
> Microsoft's motive in changing the interface with each new release of Windows has little to do with productivity and a lot to do with marketing.
Click to expand...


I wish I remembered where I read it - but Google is there so...anyhow - the 2013 list of "endangered businesses" list Microsoft for the first time on the list.
Endangered businesses are not businesses necessarily doing poorly today - but are predicted to do poorly in the future. 
Microsoft has once again made a bad bet. They went all in on the Windows 8 platform - marketing the daylights out of it - the result has been terrible. People hate it. PC sales over the Christmas season were not good, and worse now. PC manufacturers are putting considerable pressure on Microsoft - blaming Windows 8 for the poor sales.
Currently Dell is not including Win 7 as an offering, but are rumored to begin offering Win 7 as an option on all computers as they did with Vista/XP


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## Ringel05

iamwhatiseem said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh...no.
> It is not their vision, it is their attempt to get into the tablet market where they are almost non-existent. They have made several attempts into that market and flat out get pummeled by the far-far-far better performance of Android and iPad. So, their "vision" is to try and make a tablet more like a mini-laptop, where they have a chance.
> Windows 8 is obviously designed for touchscreen. Without touchscreen, no one likes it. Their hope is everyone will want to buy a touchscreen laptop.
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly won't be one of them.  On average, people spend only 15% of their computer time interfacing with the computer.  We spend most of our time at the computer, reading, listening, watching videos, and just thinking not typing, mousing, or swiping screens.
> 
> Microsoft's motive in changing the interface with each new release of Windows has little to do with productivity and a lot to do with marketing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish I remembered where I read it - but Google is there so...anyhow - the 2013 list of "endangered businesses" list Microsoft for the first time on the list.
> Endangered businesses are not businesses necessarily doing poorly today - but are predicted to do poorly in the future.
> Microsoft has once again made a bad bet. They went all in on the Windows 8 platform - marketing the daylights out of it - the result has been terrible. People hate it. PC sales over the Christmas season were not good, and worse now. PC manufacturers are putting considerable pressure on Microsoft - blaming Windows 8 for the poor sales.
> Currently Dell is not including Win 7 as an offering, but are rumored to begin offering Win 7 as an option on all computers as they did with Vista/XP
Click to expand...


Windows 8 itself?


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## iamwhatiseem

Ringel05 said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly won't be one of them.  On average, people spend only 15% of their computer time interfacing with the computer.  We spend most of our time at the computer, reading, listening, watching videos, and just thinking not typing, mousing, or swiping screens.
> 
> Microsoft's motive in changing the interface with each new release of Windows has little to do with productivity and a lot to do with marketing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I remembered where I read it - but Google is there so...anyhow - the 2013 list of "endangered businesses" list Microsoft for the first time on the list.
> Endangered businesses are not businesses necessarily doing poorly today - but are predicted to do poorly in the future.
> Microsoft has once again made a bad bet. They went all in on the Windows 8 platform - marketing the daylights out of it - the result has been terrible. People hate it. PC sales over the Christmas season were not good, and worse now. PC manufacturers are putting considerable pressure on Microsoft - blaming Windows 8 for the poor sales.
> Currently Dell is not including Win 7 as an offering, but are rumored to begin offering Win 7 as an option on all computers as they did with Vista/XP
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Windows 8 itself?
Click to expand...


Tablets as well - have you seen the side-by-side reviews of these new M$ tablets in comparison to iPad and Android? There are a number of video revies out there by reputable folks - holy cow...who knowingly in their right mind would buy one of these things?


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## Ringel05

iamwhatiseem said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I remembered where I read it - but Google is there so...anyhow - the 2013 list of "endangered businesses" list Microsoft for the first time on the list.
> Endangered businesses are not businesses necessarily doing poorly today - but are predicted to do poorly in the future.
> Microsoft has once again made a bad bet. They went all in on the Windows 8 platform - marketing the daylights out of it - the result has been terrible. People hate it. PC sales over the Christmas season were not good, and worse now. PC manufacturers are putting considerable pressure on Microsoft - blaming Windows 8 for the poor sales.
> Currently Dell is not including Win 7 as an offering, but are rumored to begin offering Win 7 as an option on all computers as they did with Vista/XP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windows 8 itself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tablets as well - have you seen the side-by-side reviews of these new M$ tablets in comparison to iPad and Android? There are a number of video revies out there by reputable folks - holy cow...who knowingly in their right mind would buy one of these things?
Click to expand...


I'll stick with my Android.
(Come on R2, time to go........)


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## iamwhatiseem

Ringel05 said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Windows 8 itself?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tablets as well - have you seen the side-by-side reviews of these new M$ tablets in comparison to iPad and Android? There are a number of video revies out there by reputable folks - holy cow...who knowingly in their right mind would buy one of these things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll stick with my Android.
> (Come on R2, time to go........)
Click to expand...


me too...I would love to have one of the "zatab" tablets...root access Android out of the box.
Voted best tablet option yet. Even has an HDMI jack.
Just look at the options 
Open & Hackable Android tablet


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## Flopper

iamwhatiseem said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh...no.
> It is not their vision, it is their attempt to get into the tablet market where they are almost non-existent. They have made several attempts into that market and flat out get pummeled by the far-far-far better performance of Android and iPad. So, their "vision" is to try and make a tablet more like a mini-laptop, where they have a chance.
> Windows 8 is obviously designed for touchscreen. Without touchscreen, no one likes it. Their hope is everyone will want to buy a touchscreen laptop.
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly won't be one of them.  On average, people spend only 15% of their computer time interfacing with the computer.  We spend most of our time at the computer, reading, listening, watching videos, and just thinking not typing, mousing, or swiping screens.
> 
> Microsoft's motive in changing the interface with each new release of Windows has little to do with productivity and a lot to do with marketing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wish I remembered where I read it - but Google is there so...anyhow - the 2013 list of "endangered businesses" list Microsoft for the first time on the list.
> Endangered businesses are not businesses necessarily doing poorly today - but are predicted to do poorly in the future.
> Microsoft has once again made a bad bet. They went all in on the Windows 8 platform - marketing the daylights out of it - the result has been terrible. People hate it. PC sales over the Christmas season were not good, and worse now. PC manufacturers are putting considerable pressure on Microsoft - blaming Windows 8 for the poor sales.
> Currently Dell is not including Win 7 as an offering, but are rumored to begin offering Win 7 as an option on all computers as they did with Vista/XP
Click to expand...

Having used Windows 8 and Windows 7 on a not-tablet PC, I see no reason to go to it unless you want windows on a tablet.


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## Hugejack

My opinion is Windows 8 is specially made for smart phones and touch screen computers and windows 7 is better than this in appearance.


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## Uncensored2008

People need to open their minds.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUSwVsyc3S4]Orchestra 2.1: Release. Windows 8 + Kinect - YouTube[/ame]


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## TNHarley

I just got it last week. It is ok, different, but ok. My only problem is my computer is not refreshing automatically. I called windows help, they said it was a normal problem for windows 8. He sent tech in to fix it for free. Then the fuck said I have too many problems and trying to charge me 69.99. Oh hell no! I am calling today when I get off, and I am not happy


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## Uncensored2008

I love my Xyboard (Jellybean based Android) Tablet. But I'm still bringing in a Windows 8 Surface Pro to eval.

With an I5 CPU, it makes the iPad and even the new Nexus 10 look like toys. The big issue is the classic one - battery life. That beefy processor sucks a lot of juice. Where the Motorola gives a solid 12 hours worth of use on a charge, the estimate on the Windows pad is a paltry 4 hours. We'll see how that affects real life.


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## iamwhatiseem

Uncensored2008 said:


> People need to open their minds.
> 
> Orchestra 2.1: Release. Windows 8 + Kinect - YouTube



Oh hell yeah...about time an operating system finally allows all of us who want to operate their computer off of a projection screen. Thank God.
 Can't do this with an iPad!!!   WhooHooo


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## Uncensored2008

iamwhatiseem said:


> Oh hell yeah...about time an operating system finally allows all of us who want to operate their computer off of a projection screen. Thank God.
> Can't do this with an iPad!!!   WhooHooo



You've got a little drool on your chin, sparky.


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## Uncensored2008

For those who are not terminally stupid, the days of interacting with computers through a mouse are coming to a close.

Touch screens are NOT an answer. Goo, shmutz, fingerprints and the need to be within arms length make touch screens ridiculous.

What the video posted earlier demonstrates is Kinect, a motion sensing method of interacting with the machine. Iamwhatiseem will declare it brilliant, next year once Apple has cloned it.

Kinect is a proven technology that is in wide use on XBox 360 systems, and offers all the advantages of a touch screen, without having to have a touch screen, It means it will work with the computer you have today, or with your living room TV.


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## Ringel05

Uncensored2008 said:


> For those who are not terminally stupid, the days of interacting with computers through a mouse are coming to a close.
> 
> Touch screens are NOT an answer. Goo, shmutz, fingerprints and the need to be within arms length make touch screens ridiculous.
> 
> What the video posted earlier demonstrates is Kinect, a motion sensing method of interacting with the machine. Iamwhatiseem will declare it brilliant, next year once Apple has cloned it.
> 
> Kinect is a proven technology that is in wide use on XBox 360 systems, and offers all the advantages of a touch screen, without having to have a touch screen, It means it will work with the computer you have today, or with your living room TV.



Uuuummmm, but I like my mouse.  I get to stroke it, pet it and feed it way too many batteries.  Yeah, I forget to put it to sleep.


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## Politico

Terminally stupid? Yeah the mouse will be around.


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## MikeK

It seems nine out of ten reactions to Windows 8 range from moderate dislike to utter disgust.  I recently upgraded from XP to 7, which seems okay now that I've adjusted to it, but the thing that instantly turned me off to 8 is the touch-screen, which might be okay for a laptop but an annoying and redundant inconvenience on a desktop.  

I'm not so audacious as to suggest Microsoft has made a dumb move by introducing  such a predictable disappointment, so I'm wondering what related surprise 8 is intended to prepare the market for.  Whatever it is I hope it's not completely over the heads of geriatric computer users, most of whom, including me, were perfectly content with 98/SE.


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## Flopper

MikeK said:


> It seems nine out of ten reactions to Windows 8 range from moderate dislike to utter disgust.  I recently upgraded from XP to 7, which seems okay now that I've adjusted to it, but the thing that instantly turned me off to 8 is the touch-screen, which might be okay for a laptop but an annoying and redundant inconvenience on a desktop.
> 
> I'm not so audacious as to suggest Microsoft has made a dumb move by introducing  such a predictable disappointment, so I'm wondering what related surprise 8 is intended to prepare the market for.  Whatever it is I hope it's not completely over the heads of geriatric computer users, most of whom, including me, were perfectly content with 98/SE.


Microsoft doesn't care whether you're content with their operating system or not.  They have over 80% of the operating system market.  Apple's IOS is in second place with only 7% of the market. 

MS makes money on their operating system by first introducing a new version.  Then they drop support on older versions which signals application developers and computer manufactures to develop their products for the new version.  When you buy a new computer, it comes with the new operating system installed.  When you try install your older applications, you have to buy upgrades.

In short, what the customer wants in an operating system is just not that important to MS.


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## iamwhatiseem

Uncensored2008 said:


> For those who are not terminally stupid, the days of interacting with computers through a mouse are coming to a close.
> 
> Touch screens are NOT an answer. Goo, shmutz, fingerprints and the need to be within arms length make touch screens ridiculous.
> 
> What the video posted earlier demonstrates is Kinect, a motion sensing method of interacting with the machine. Iamwhatiseem will declare it brilliant, next year once Apple has cloned it.
> 
> Kinect is a proven technology that is in wide use on XBox 360 systems, and offers all the advantages of a touch screen, without having to have a touch screen, It means it will work with the computer you have today, or with your living room TV.



Settle down son, no need to insult one another for Pete's sake. As I have explained to you before, and again now, I am not an Apple fan. I don't own a single Apple device.
But operating a computer via a kinect device is about as adept as driving a car with boxing gloves. Even in this video you can see the kid struggle to control the interface considerably.
The future of computer control is most certainly not a kinect or anything like it.
As long as there are display screens - a mouse will be the interface of choice. I certainly have no interest in waving my arms around in mid-air vs. resting on the desk barely moving my wrist. 
I don't know what the future interface will be - a kinect device...hilarious.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ringel05 said:


> Uuuummmm, but I like my mouse.  I get to stroke it, pet it and feed it way too many batteries.  Yeah, I forget to put it to sleep.



I loved my command line too - but it didn't alter the move of progress.

And just like the command line, power users will still have a mouse for decades.

Motion sensing technology is here to stay, though.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Politico said:


> Terminally stupid? Yeah the mouse will be around.



Just like DOS.....


----------



## Uncensored2008

iamwhatiseem said:


> Settle down son, no need to insult one another for Pete's sake.



Alright, I apologize.



> As I have explained to you before, and again now, I am not an Apple fan. I don't own a single Apple device.
> But operating a computer via a kinect device is about as adept as driving a car with boxing gloves.



Exactly what was said when the transition from command line to GUI started. (I admit, I was one of the nay-sayers.)



> Even in this video you can see the kid struggle to control the interface considerably.
> The future of computer control is most certainly not a kinect or anything like it.
> As long as there are display screens - a mouse will be the interface of choice. I certainly have no interest in waving my arms around in mid-air vs. resting on the desk barely moving my wrist.



We already can see that isn't true. The rise of touch screens demonstrates that the public seeks a more natural way of interacting.  But as I pointed out, touch has a ton of draw backs. Motion control doesn't.



> I don't know what the future interface will be - a kinect device...hilarious.



It's going to happen, whether you like it or not. 

Again, by this time next year, Apple will have stolen/cloned the technology, and everyone will be remarking on how brilliant and innovative it is.


----------



## Bigfoot

MikeK said:


> It seems nine out of ten reactions to Windows 8 range from moderate dislike to utter disgust.  I recently upgraded from XP to 7, which seems okay now that I've adjusted to it, but the thing that instantly turned me off to 8 is the touch-screen, which might be okay for a laptop but an annoying and redundant inconvenience on a desktop.
> 
> I'm not so audacious as to suggest Microsoft has made a dumb move by introducing  such a predictable disappointment, so I'm wondering what related surprise 8 is intended to prepare the market for.  Whatever it is I hope it's not completely over the heads of geriatric computer users, most of whom, including me, were perfectly content with 98/SE.




I just went to Windozes 7 I of course could have bought 8 for all our boxes but chose 7 instead. It sure beats the heck out of Vista 64!


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Uncensored2008 said:


> It's going to happen, whether you like it or not.
> 
> Again, by this time next year, Apple will have stolen/cloned the technology, and everyone will be remarking on how brilliant and innovative it is.



 I am not so confident of that, much the same as everyone thought touchpads would replace a mouse 6-7 years ago. They didn't. It wasn't any real improvement over the mouse.
Motion sensor interface is much the same - it has to be better - not just different. Like I said - who wants to hold their arm up in the air and move it around? You know how tired your arm will get?? Imagine trying to work with a spread sheet! It would be a nightmare.
 In the gaming industry, once perfected, motion sensor will certainly be a cool device though it is still years from getting better.


----------



## Uncensored2008

iamwhatiseem said:


> I am not so confident of that, much the same as everyone thought touchpads would replace a mouse 6-7 years ago. They didn't. It wasn't any real improvement over the mouse.



Two issues. First, touch screens HAVE replaced the mouse to a huge extent. There are more Andriod and IOS devices than all the PC's and Macs combined, and they all used touch screens.

But, touch has issues, which are massively magnified on the desktop.



> Motion sensor interface is much the same - it has to be better - not just different. Like I said - who wants to hold their arm up in the air and move it around? You know how tired your arm will get?? Imagine trying to work with a spread sheet! It would be a nightmare.
> In the gaming industry, once perfected, motion sensor will certainly be a cool device though it is still years from getting better.



In many ways, it is better, significantly better. A single gesture replaces a half-dozen mouse clicks. Dragging, dropping, squeezing to contract, widening fingers to zoom, all of these are natural and intuitive to the user.

Just like the GUI, this is going to happen. Microsoft has staked their company on it, and they do a lot of research. True that they couldn't market water in the middle of the desert, but the shift is a natural and inevitable one.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Bigfoot said:


> I just went to Windozes 7 I of course could have bought 8 for all our boxes but chose 7 instead. It sure beats the heck out of Vista 64!



In what way?

(Vista == Longhorn kernal, Window 7 == Longhorn kernal. Vista SP2 exact same kernal as 7 no SP)


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Uncensored2008 said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not so confident of that, much the same as everyone thought touchpads would replace a mouse 6-7 years ago. They didn't. It wasn't any real improvement over the mouse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two issues. First, touch screens HAVE replaced the mouse to a huge extent. There are more Andriod and IOS devices than all the PC's and Macs combined, and they all used touch screens.
> 
> But, touch has issues, which are massively magnified on the desktop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Motion sensor interface is much the same - it has to be better - not just different. Like I said - who wants to hold their arm up in the air and move it around? You know how tired your arm will get?? Imagine trying to work with a spread sheet! It would be a nightmare.
> In the gaming industry, once perfected, motion sensor will certainly be a cool device though it is still years from getting better.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In many ways, it is better, significantly better. A single gesture replaces a half-dozen mouse clicks. Dragging, dropping, squeezing to contract, widening fingers to zoom, all of these are natural and intuitive to the user.
> 
> Just like the GUI, this is going to happen. Microsoft has staked their company on it, and they do a lot of research. True that they couldn't market water in the middle of the desert, but the shift is a natural and inevitable one.
Click to expand...


I didn't mean touchscreens - I mean touch*pads* Remember this mini-craze?


----------



## Politico

Looks like uncensored just types stuff to type stuff.


----------



## Flopper

Computers today are becoming more and more like very sophisticated toasters. They are becoming more task orientated which means you perform the tasks the system is designed to do and you use whatever interface the manufacture wants you to use. If you're a techie, you can go under the hood, install third party devices, software and modifications. For the rest of us, we just have to learn to do things there're way using the tools they provide.

I expect withing 10 years or so, all computers will be so tightly controlled by the manufacturer, that the only thing you will be able to do will them is purchase apps, run them, and delete them.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Flopper said:


> Computers today are becoming more and more like very sophisticated toasters. They are becoming more task orientated which means you perform the tasks the system is designed to do and you use whatever interface the manufacture wants you to use. If you're a techie, you can go under the hood, install third party devices, software and modifications. For the rest of us, we just have to learn to do things there're way using the tools they provide.
> 
> I expect withing 10 years or so, all computers will be so tightly controlled by the manufacturer, that the only thing you will be able to do will them is purchase apps, run them, and delete them.



To a point I agree. The desktop is dying.
Myself, I doubt I will buy another desktop for the rest of my life. Laptops are so much better. 
 To your remark, I unfortunately see the "corporative takeover" of devices to continue. Kindle, Nook etc...where corporations co-op the cost between the consumer in the "agreement" that they will buy apps/music/video etc. exclusively from them.
This is bad.


----------



## MikeK

iamwhatiseem said:


> To a point I agree. The desktop is dying.
> Myself, I doubt I will buy another desktop for the rest of my life. Laptops are so much better.[...]


I have both.  The laptop is my stand-by and it did come in very handy during the period when my desktop died and I was replacing it.   But I don't care for laptops for a number of reasons and I believe there are many desktop users who share my preference.  

I most appreciate the more substantial keyboard and the big monitor component of the desktop system.  Also, the Acer desktop I recently bought is about half the size of what was the standard _mini-tower._  In time I believe these desktop main components will be even smaller while continuing to enable the use of big keyboards and monitors.


----------



## MikeK

Flopper said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems nine out of ten reactions to Windows 8 range from moderate dislike to utter disgust.  I recently upgraded from XP to 7, which seems okay now that I've adjusted to it, but the thing that instantly turned me off to 8 is the touch-screen, which might be okay for a laptop but an annoying and redundant inconvenience on a desktop.
> 
> I'm not so audacious as to suggest Microsoft has made a dumb move by introducing  such a predictable disappointment, so I'm wondering what related surprise 8 is intended to prepare the market for.  Whatever it is I hope it's not completely over the heads of geriatric computer users, most of whom, including me, were perfectly content with 98/SE.
> 
> 
> 
> Microsoft doesn't care whether you're content with their operating system or not.  They have over 80% of the operating system market.  Apple's IOS is in second place with only 7% of the market.
> 
> MS makes money on their operating system by first introducing a new version.  Then they drop support on older versions which signals application developers and computer manufactures to develop their products for the new version.  When you buy a new computer, it comes with the new operating system installed.  When you try install your older applications, you have to buy upgrades.
> 
> In short, what the customer wants in an operating system is just not that important to MS.
Click to expand...

It will be if pushing too hard causes millions of users to switch to Linux and other competitive operating systems which will be developed in response to demand.


----------



## MikeK

iamwhatiseem said:


> [...]Like I said - who wants to hold their arm up in the air and move it around? You know how tired your arm will get?? Imagine trying to work with a spread sheet! It would be a nightmare.
> 
> [...]


Exactly!  Who wants that?


----------



## iamwhatiseem

MikeK said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> To a point I agree. The desktop is dying.
> Myself, I doubt I will buy another desktop for the rest of my life. Laptops are so much better.[...]
> 
> 
> 
> I have both.  The laptop is my stand-by and it did come in very handy during the period when my desktop died and I was replacing it.   But I don't care for laptops for a number of reasons and I believe there are many desktop users who share my preference.
> 
> I most appreciate the more substantial keyboard and the big monitor component of the desktop system.  Also, the Acer desktop I recently bought is about half the size of what was the standard _mini-tower._  In time I believe these desktop main components will be even smaller while continuing to enable the use of big keyboards and monitors.
Click to expand...


 Not a problem, you can buy an inexpensive laptop docking station and since even the most basic laptop now has HDMI output - you can port to whatever monitor/big screen you like.


----------



## MikeK

iamwhatiseem said:


> Not a problem, you can buy an inexpensive laptop docking station and since even the most basic laptop now has HDMI output - you can port to whatever monitor/big screen you like.


That is worth looking into.  

Thanks.


----------



## MikeK

MikeK said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a problem, you can buy an inexpensive laptop docking station and since even the most basic laptop now has HDMI output - you can port to whatever monitor/big screen you like.
> 
> 
> 
> That is worth looking into.
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

I just did a Google and here's what I got:   "There are no available docking stations for the Aspire 5741G."

My luck.


----------



## Bleipriester

Flopper said:


> Computers today are becoming more and more like very sophisticated toasters. They are becoming more task orientated which means you perform the tasks the system is designed to do and you use whatever interface the manufacture wants you to use. If you're a techie, you can go under the hood, install third party devices, software and modifications. For the rest of us, we just have to learn to do things there're way using the tools they provide.
> 
> I expect withing 10 years or so, all computers will be so tightly controlled by the manufacturer, that the only thing you will be able to do will them is purchase apps, run them, and delete them.


In that case, it would make sense to store some old PC in the cellar to boast of their capabilities when all the others use their atrophied consoles.


----------



## Ringel05

MikeK said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a problem, you can buy an inexpensive laptop docking station and since even the most basic laptop now has HDMI output - you can port to whatever monitor/big screen you like.
> 
> 
> 
> That is worth looking into.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just did a Google and here's what I got:   "There are no available docking stations for the Aspire 5741G."
> 
> My luck.
Click to expand...

Universal docking stations;

What's the Best Notebook Docking Station?


----------



## MikeK

Ringel05 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is worth looking into.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I just did a Google and here's what I got:   "There are no available docking stations for the Aspire 5741G."
> 
> My luck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Universal docking stations;
> 
> What's the Best Notebook Docking Station?
Click to expand...

As usual, Ringel comes through with an answer.

Thanks!


----------



## Flopper

iamwhatiseem said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Computers today are becoming more and more like very sophisticated toasters. They are becoming more task orientated which means you perform the tasks the system is designed to do and you use whatever interface the manufacture wants you to use. If you're a techie, you can go under the hood, install third party devices, software and modifications. For the rest of us, we just have to learn to do things there're way using the tools they provide.
> 
> I expect withing 10 years or so, all computers will be so tightly controlled by the manufacturer, that the only thing you will be able to do will them is purchase apps, run them, and delete them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To a point I agree. The desktop is dying.
> Myself, I doubt I will buy another desktop for the rest of my life. Laptops are so much better.
> To your remark, I unfortunately see the "corporative takeover" of devices to continue. Kindle, Nook etc...where corporations co-op the cost between the consumer in the "agreement" that they will buy apps/music/video etc. exclusively from them.
> This is bad.
Click to expand...

Yep


----------



## Flopper

MikeK said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> To a point I agree. The desktop is dying.
> Myself, I doubt I will buy another desktop for the rest of my life. Laptops are so much better.[...]
> 
> 
> 
> I have both.  The laptop is my stand-by and it did come in very handy during the period when my desktop died and I was replacing it.   But I don't care for laptops for a number of reasons and I believe there are many desktop users who share my preference.
> 
> I most appreciate the more substantial keyboard and the big monitor component of the desktop system.  Also, the Acer desktop I recently bought is about half the size of what was the standard _mini-tower._  In time I believe these desktop main components will be even smaller while continuing to enable the use of big keyboards and monitors.
Click to expand...

Keyboards and monitors are a big plus for desktops.  In general desktops give you more computing power for the bucks and there're easier to upgrade and cheaper to repair.  However, if you really need the mobility, then laptops are the way to go.  Since I don't need to move my computer, I'll stick with a desktop.


----------



## Flopper

Bleipriester said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Computers today are becoming more and more like very sophisticated toasters. They are becoming more task orientated which means you perform the tasks the system is designed to do and you use whatever interface the manufacture wants you to use. If you're a techie, you can go under the hood, install third party devices, software and modifications. For the rest of us, we just have to learn to do things there're way using the tools they provide.
> 
> I expect withing 10 years or so, all computers will be so tightly controlled by the manufacturer, that the only thing you will be able to do will them is purchase apps, run them, and delete them.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, it would make sense to store some old PC in the cellar to boast of their capabilities when all the others use their atrophied consoles.
Click to expand...

I actually have a vintage IBM pc.  It runs only DOS applications.  Almost none of the software that is sold today will run on it.  It has 64K of memory, a 4 meg harddrive, a monochrome monitor, and no mouse support.  The operating system uses 8k of memory.

By contrast, Windows 8, requires 25,000 times more memory than my old IBM PC, 10,000 more processing power, and 1.3 million times more disk space.


----------



## Politico

Anyone who does anything requiring serious power uses desktops.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Politico said:


> Anyone who does anything requiring serious power uses desktops.



Gaming you mean...and there are gaming laptops that are no less memory rich and with the same processor as desktops.
   I still have a desktop, but admittedly I really only use it to download movies and watch them on the big screen...which I could also do with a laptop.
  As flopper pointed out, the advantage of a desktop is price and the ability to switch out hardware. For that reason if you are a PC gamer - there is no competition.


----------



## Politico

No not gaming. Serious productivity. You aren't going to see someone designing a national ad campaign or rendering the next Toy Story sequel on a laptop.


----------



## Uncensored2008

iamwhatiseem said:


> I didn't mean touchscreens - I mean touch*pads* Remember this mini-craze?



Meh, anyone who ever used a notebook already hated touchpads. Only thing worse than a touchpad is those little eraser head joysticks.


----------



## Flopper

Uncensored2008 said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't mean touchscreens - I mean touch*pads* Remember this mini-craze?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, anyone who ever used a notebook already hated touchpads. Only thing worse than a touchpad is those little eraser head joysticks.
Click to expand...

Since a touch screen doesn't require a pointing device, it's great in a device such as a smart phone, but as the size of the device increases, the advantage of a touch screen decreases.  For most people in a desktop setting, there is little advantage.  However, a touch screen is great with preschoolers because touching what you want is more natural for a child that pointing with a mouse. 

The concept of making the computer interface easier to use and more natural is good.  However, the gains are often not worth the effort and cost.


----------



## Foxfyre

I bought a new PC during the Black Friday sales--or rather Hubby got it for me during the Black Friday sales last November and gave it to me for Christmas.  Yeah he did the crack of dawn thing on Friday morning to snag on of a dozen or so HP computers being offered at under $300 - super fast processor, a gig of RAM, a terabyte of hard drive space - all in a fairly small sleek package.  Sweet little machine and I love using my 24" monitor with it while not having to go through all the rigoramoo (sp) of hooking up my laptop to it.

But I love have almost unlimited space, plenty of power, and ease and affordability of repairs.  I still use my laptop when watching TV, when traveling, or otherwise when I am away from the PC, but I much prefer working with the PC over the laptop.

The only downside is the PC has Windows 8.  We are sort of getting along but I still hate Windows 8.


----------



## MikeK

idb said:


> I'm desperately clinging onto my XP for as long as I can!!!


If your XP system dies, or if you are affected by obsolescence, Windows 7 is not much different and it has a few nice new features and some improvements over XP.


----------



## Foxfyre

MikeK said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm desperately clinging onto my XP for as long as I can!!!
> 
> 
> 
> If your XP system dies, or if you are affected by obsolescence, Windows 7 is not much different and it has a few nice new features and some improvements over XP.
Click to expand...


But unfortunately a LOT of your favorite computer games coded for XP will not work on Windows 7.  I've found Rise of Nations, for instance, will not work on Windows 7 but it will work on Windows 8.

Still hate Windows 8 though.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Foxfyre said:


> But unfortunately a LOT of your favorite computer games coded for XP will not work on Windows 7.  I've found Rise of Nations, for instance, will not work on Windows 7 but it will work on Windows 8.
> 
> Still hate Windows 8 though.



??

Rise of Nations works fine on Windows 7.

The only issue is lack of support for 16X9 displays. It ends up looking distorted, unless you run it in a window.

Fox, if you have trouble getting games to run on Windows 7, send me a PM and I'll help you get them going.


----------



## legaleagle_45

Foxfyre said:


> I bought a new PC during the Black Friday sales--or rather Hubby got it for me during the Black Friday sales last November and gave it to me for Christmas.  Yeah he did the crack of dawn thing on Friday morning to snag on of a dozen or so HP computers being offered at under $300 - super fast processor, a gig of RAM, a terabyte of hard drive space - all in a fairly small sleek package.  Sweet little machine and I love using my 24" monitor with it while not having to go through all the rigoramoo (sp) of hooking up my laptop to it.
> 
> But I love have almost unlimited space, plenty of power, and ease and affordability of repairs.  I still use my laptop when watching TV, when traveling, or otherwise when I am away from the PC, but I much prefer working with the PC over the laptop.
> 
> The only downside is the PC has Windows 8.  We are sort of getting along but I still hate Windows 8.



I think the trend for Microsoft operating systems is to skip every other one and you will be fine.   Windows 7 was good.  Windows Vista was a dud.  Windows XP was good. Windows ME was a dud. Windows 98 was fine.... 

Obviously Windows 8 has got to be a dud.


----------



## Foxfyre

Uncensored2008 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> But unfortunately a LOT of your favorite computer games coded for XP will not work on Windows 7.  I've found Rise of Nations, for instance, will not work on Windows 7 but it will work on Windows 8.
> 
> Still hate Windows 8 though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ??
> 
> Rise of Nations works fine on Windows 7.
> 
> The only issue is lack of support for 16X9 displays. It ends up looking distorted, unless you run it in a window.
> 
> Fox, if you have trouble getting games to run on Windows 7, send me a PM and I'll help you get them going.
Click to expand...


Really?  I would love to have it on my laptop with Windows 7, but it only partially loads.  It runs, but not with full capability.  And after reading up, the consensus was that Windows 7 did not support Rise of Nations.  On Windows 8 it does fine.


----------



## JakeStarkey

JoeB131 said:


> My family bought me a new laptop for Christmas with Windows 8 on it.
> 
> Honestly I don't like the operating system at all.  I think what they were going for was to make it more like a Smart Phone than a traditional computer, but seriously, it's just kind of awful.



Almost three months later: I don't like it either.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Foxfyre said:


> Really?  I would love to have it on my laptop with Windows 7, but it only partially loads.  It runs, but not with full capability.  And after reading up, the consensus was that Windows 7 did not support Rise of Nations.  On Windows 8 it does fine.



Some of this is generic,

Turn off the Windows Firewall. Set UAC to "Never Prompt."

To install the game, right click on Setup and "run as administrator." Do this, even if you are set as a local admin. This is generally the biggest issue, getting a good install.

Once the game is installed, right click on the launch icon and choose, "properties." Click the button "Open File Location." Navigate to RON.EXE (with the same Icon as the shortcut) and right click. Choose properties and then the "compatibility" tab. In the drop down select run in compatibility for "Windows XP SP1"

Apply and close all dialogue boxes.

RON will now run. 

I've tried fixes for the widescreen display issue, and have found none that work.  So I run it in a window at 1280X 1024


----------



## MikeK

legaleagle_45 said:


> I think the trend for Microsoft operating systems is to skip every other one and you will be fine.   Windows 7 was good.  Windows Vista was a dud.  Windows XP was good. Windows ME was a dud. Windows 98 was fine....
> 
> Obviously Windows 8 has got to be a dud.


I agree.  

I've skipped ME and Vista.  I went from 98/SE to XP to 7.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

legaleagle_45 said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a new PC during the Black Friday sales--or rather Hubby got it for me during the Black Friday sales last November and gave it to me for Christmas.  Yeah he did the crack of dawn thing on Friday morning to snag on of a dozen or so HP computers being offered at under $300 - super fast processor, a gig of RAM, a terabyte of hard drive space - all in a fairly small sleek package.  Sweet little machine and I love using my 24" monitor with it while not having to go through all the rigoramoo (sp) of hooking up my laptop to it.
> 
> But I love have almost unlimited space, plenty of power, and ease and affordability of repairs.  I still use my laptop when watching TV, when traveling, or otherwise when I am away from the PC, but I much prefer working with the PC over the laptop.
> 
> The only downside is the PC has Windows 8.  We are sort of getting along but I still hate Windows 8.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the trend for Microsoft operating systems is to skip every other one and you will be fine.   Windows 7 was good.  Windows Vista was a dud.  Windows XP was good. Windows ME was a dud. Windows 98 was fine....
> 
> Obviously Windows 8 has got to be a dud.
Click to expand...


This is by design.
When you have such a vast marketshare where you basically have a captured market - why send out a large beta version, when you can sell it to a few million early buyers and let them do the testing on their dime...then fix the problems and sell the real OS.


----------

