# Map of Ottoman Empire @ 1900's clearly shows, land NOT OWNED BY ARABS:



## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".

The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed. 

Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years.   In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:


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## MJB12741 (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> 
> The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.
> 
> Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years.   In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:





Roudy said:


> Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> 
> The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.
> 
> Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years.   In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:


Very cleaver those Zionist land theives building their wailing wall over the Al Asqa Mosque.


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## montelatici (Oct 14, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> 
> The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.
> 
> Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years.   In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:




You are hilarious.  You post a little mickey mouse map and deny the facts as reported in the Survey of Palestine prepared for the UN as the official record of the Mandatory prior to partition.  


"6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--






_All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
of population
Increase by
migration
Natural
increase631,272

281,339

349,933286,770

25,168

261,602302,294

245,433

56,86138,305

10,414

27,8913,903

324

3,579
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> ...



1937!  Ha ha ha!  You are a joke.  That would be after the third wave of Arab Muslim invasions.

That map is 100% accurate.  Unless you can show me a map that calls the land "Palestinian / Arab Empire"....you are shit outta luck and doing nothing but pissing in the wind. 

Read ma lips, Arabs never owned the land.

The end.


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## Roudy (Oct 14, 2014)

Gee, more "hilarious, Mickey Mouse" maps, which tell the historical truth about the Ottoman Empire, and the fact that PALESTINE NEVA WAS:




























[/QUOTE]


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## Grendelyn (Oct 15, 2014)

If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign a contract with Israel. It's normal: We took their land. It's true, that it was promised to us by God, but why should they care? Our God is not their God. There were anti-Semites, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was it their fault? They only see one thing: We came and stole their land. Why should they accept that?
From: Goldmann, Nahum: Le Paradoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), p.121


Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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*No, Rowdy, you're the joke . . . even Israel's first prime minister admitted that those whom you support, stole the Palestinians' land.  ~ Susan*
*
If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign a contract with Israel. It's normal: We took their land. It's true, that it was promised to us by God, but why should they care? Our God is not their God. There were anti-Semites, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was it their fault? They only see one thing: We came and stole their land. Why should they accept that?   Quote of David Ben-Gurion
From: Goldmann, Nahum: Le Paradoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), p.121*​


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## Humanity (Oct 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> 
> The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.
> 
> Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years.   In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:



Great!

Let's give it back to the Turks then!


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## docmauser1 (Oct 15, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


> If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign a contract with Israel. It's normal: We took their land. It's true, that it was promised to us by God, but why should they care? Our God is not their God. There were anti-Semites, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was it their fault? They only see one thing: We came and stole their land. Why should they accept that?   Quote of David Ben-Gurion From: Goldmann, Nahum: Le Paradoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), p.121[/INDENT]


Ah, major arab settlers and squatters "owning"(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine again.


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## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
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 Now this must be ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDA as it is in the same archive as Rocor's report, isn't that right Mohamed ? 

 Going on this table and the facts known at hat time regarding live births it seems that the arab Palestinian women all had quintuplets every year from age 12 to age 55. This resulted in 2,616,020 births with a survival rate of 10%. 2.4 million graves that should be easy to find in such an arid land. Unless the figures have been falsified on the instructions of the ANTI SEMITIC British establishment


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## docmauser1 (Oct 15, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Great! Let's give it back to the Turks then!


What countries should palistanians be given back too?


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## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


> If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign a contract with Israel. It's normal: We took their land. It's true, that it was promised to us by God, but why should they care? Our God is not their God. There were anti-Semites, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was it their fault? They only see one thing: We came and stole their land. Why should they accept that?
> From: Goldmann, Nahum: Le Paradoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), p.121
> 
> 
> ...






 And now we know that the land was not arab muslim at all, that they were illegal immigrants and land thieves. It is the standard ISLAMONAZI model that we are seeing in Europe today, but the Europeans are fighting back against the land thefts. The arab muslims lost ownership and control in 1099 and have never managed to reclaim it since. The UN should come clean and admit that the muslim contingent forced an unworkable solution on the UN and sat back while the war raged. Then redress the balance by telling abbas and co to leave Israel unless they can exist in peace with the Israeli's.


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## Phoenall (Oct 15, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
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> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
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 Why not the Crusaders, or the Romans even the Jews. The arab muslims did not hold it for long enough to matter.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
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> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
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Turks lost it after WWI and the British and French took over. Meaning, the Arabs had no say in what happens to the land for 700 years.  KEEP UP.

Isn't there an adult school in your area where you can go back and complete your education?


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

Grendelyn said:


> If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign a contract with Israel. It's normal: We took their land. It's true, that it was promised to us by God, but why should they care? Our God is not their God. There were anti-Semites, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was it their fault? They only see one thing: We came and stole their land. Why should they accept that?
> From: Goldmann, Nahum: Le Paradoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), p.121
> 
> 
> ...



A fake quote from an IslamoNazi website?  Is that all you got? 

Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".

- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".

- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".

- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:

"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

What Arabs said after the Six Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".

- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -
​


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

FACT:

 ARABS owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  All the deflection, tap dancing, whining, coloring book maps  and stamping of feet won't change the facts contained in the Survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations prior to partition:


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## docmauser1 (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> FACT:View attachment 32891 ARABS owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  All the deflection, tap dancing, whining, coloring book maps  and stamping of feet won't change the facts contained in the Survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations prior to partition:


Yeah, right! Major arab settlers and squatters from the hood got to tap-dance to the mandate palestine to own(!) 90%(!) if it!


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> FACT:View attachment 32891 ARABS owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  All the deflection, tap dancing, whining, coloring book maps  and stamping of feet won't change the facts contained in the Survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations prior to partition:



Ha ha ha again with the bullshit chart from a Mooooslem site. 

Fact, the Ottoman Turks didn't document deeds or land ownership. 

Fact, mass immigration and land ownership by Mexicans into American cities like LA and Phoenix does not make LA Mexican land. Ha ha ha. What an ignorant moron.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

Can one of you bullshit propagandists show us a country or nation of "Arab Palestine" that existed in the last 700 years?  

Who were its rulers, it's capital, currency, distinct language, etc. ?

Palestine is an invention circa 1967 after the Arabs got their asses kicked and decided to hijack an identity they never had.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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> 
> > FACT:View attachment 32891 ARABS owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  All the deflection, tap dancing, whining, coloring book maps  and stamping of feet won't change the facts contained in the Survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations prior to partition:
> ...



The chart is from a Jewish site, as you well know. The Berman Jewish Policy Archive:

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

Do you think repeating a lie over and over again will make it true you silly little wanker.  It's killing you that I have the facts and can document them, isn't it.  Let's look at the facts again, available from a Jewish site:


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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Here are the facts. 

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. *The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool* in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

You want maps?  Here is some free aducashun.  I


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Beyond questioning what a military commander stating policy means, what does it matter?  Did the Jews from Europe not expel the Christians and Muslims that were living in Palestine?  Christians and Muslims that owned more than 90% of the land?


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Beyond questioning what a military commander stating policy means, what does it matter?  Did the Jews from Europe not expel the Christians and Muslims that were living in Palestine?  Christians and Muslims that owned more than 90% of the land?



Um it matters because you keep saying that the "Jews stole the land" of which never belonged, nor was it under the control of the Arabs for 700 years.  The Jews did not "expel" anyone. The Arabs tried to Islamicize the area and commit genocide and ethnic cleansing on the Jews, they failed, a civil war ensued and the Arabs lost.  Can't deal with the one Jewish state in the region out of the remains of the collapsed Ottoman Empire?  TOUGH SHIT!

Cue in bullshit chart from Islamist site in 3, 2, 1....


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## Humanity (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoenall said:


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Yeah for sure.... Why not....

But isn't it rather idiotic of all pro-israelis to try and choose just where to draw a timeline that is convenient for, well, jews, and actually forget the rest of historical fact, simply because it doesn't really suit you cause....

Oh, before I get tagged an islamonazi, or whatever ridiculous tag you want to throw at me, exactly the same can be said of pro-palestinians...

Both sides should actually draw a "line in the sand" from where to start a mutual history and 'argue' from there....

Trying to argue 1800's with 1920's or 1947's is just a farce... 

If you want to go back to the earliest remains in the region then you are looking at 1.5 million years ago and they came from Africa!


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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> > Beyond questioning what a military commander stating policy means, what does it matter?  Did the Jews from Europe not expel the Christians and Muslims that were living in Palestine?  Christians and Muslims that owned more than 90% of the land?
> ...



The Christians and Muslims owned more than 90% of the land in 1943.  By definition, it was stolen from them when they were expelled by the Jews.  Claiming the "Jews did not expel anyone" is just silly and you know it.

The Christians and Muslims were resisting the expulsion and ethnic cleansing that the Jews began in 1946.


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## Humanity (Oct 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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> > Beyond questioning what a military commander stating policy means, what does it matter?  Did the Jews from Europe not expel the Christians and Muslims that were living in Palestine?  Christians and Muslims that owned more than 90% of the land?
> ...



It all seems to start drifting into a 5th dimension when it comes to 'arguing' over whos land was whos, or, for that matter, if it even existed at all... "the "Jews stole the land" of which never belonged"??

Like it or not, the region known as Palestine WAS inhabited by Arabs AND Jews. A coexistence that appears to have been harmonious, without borders, for quite some time... 

Yes, conquerors came and went, but the region remained inhabited by both 'sides'.

Both 'sides' seem wrapped up in historical misinformation, at best, rather than looking for genuine solutions to the current issues...


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

There were very few Jews before 1850.  A "handful" according to the official record.  And they weren't Europeans, they were Arab Jews, that like the Christians and Arabs, were culturally Arab and spoke Arabic.

*AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. *​
"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*_See_ Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. *Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. *A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. *Some 77,000 of the population are Christians*, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

*The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000.* *Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews*. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. 


- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Great!
> 
> Let's give it back to the Turks then!



Well, if that would result in the cessation of hostilities and old time bickering between the two sides, I would be for it.

However, I highly doubt that Turkey wants to take that task on, nor have anything like that to do with Israel/Palestine.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Humanity said:
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Well, the Turks have transports that could return the Jewish settlers back to where they or their parents and grand parents came from.


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## Humanity (Oct 15, 2014)

> And now we know that the land was not arab muslim at all, that they were illegal immigrants and land thieves. It is the standard ISLAMONAZI model that we are seeing in Europe today, but the Europeans are fighting back against the land thefts. The arab muslims lost ownership and control in 1099 and have never managed to reclaim it since.



And an amazing admission that actually Arab Muslims DID own land and control Palestine!

"The arab muslims lost ownership and control"

The ONLY way to lose ownership and control is to have owned and controlled something in the first place!

Well done Phoenall for pointing it out, clearly, concisely.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

Phoney will be Phoney.


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> of population
> Increase by
> migration
> ...



You know something Sara?  I had to actually thank a post of yours, this one.  Why?  Because right on the surface of it is shows how much B.S. that you have swallowed and believe and expect us (and who you really want to reach, the rest of the world and readers) to believe.

OK, the surface.  From your table above you expect us to believe that the moslem population increased by 349,933 by 'natural' methods; i.e. births over deaths.  This is from approx. 582,000 total around 1922.  That, as has been pointed out, one heck of a birth rate!!

But the real gem to be found in the link you posted is not far down on its page. Go down about 1/4 of the page where the heading says, "Public Security".  Item #10:



> 10. During the year covered by this Report, public security in Palestine was seriously disturbed by a compaign of *murder, intimidation, and sabotage conducted by Arab law breakers*, which on a few occasions provoked Jewish reprisals



Priceless!


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## Humanity (Oct 15, 2014)

Roudy said:


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Just for factual clarity Zuheir Mohsen died over 35 years ago...


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> FACT:View attachment 32891



Oh. For. Fucks.  Sake.

This one again Sara?  You surely do not know when you're whipped on that worn out old one.


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The chart is from a Jewish site, as you well know. The Berman Jewish Policy Archive:
> 
> A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner
> 
> ...



Sara, I asked you in one of the several other threads where you have posted this piece of crap "Table 2".  So I ask again. Please provide the direct link to this table as the link you provide does not reveal it.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
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> > _All religions.__Moslems.__Jews.__Christians.__Others._Total increase
> ...




You really try hard, but no cigar Bozo.  And, nice try at propaganda, but I am far smarter than you are and will call you every time you try something like this, you lying piece of shit.

The 349,933 was the natural increase, of all religions, not just Muslims.  The increase by natural increase was higher for Muslims 50% versus 36% Christians and 30% Jews religions but not out of whack with Muslim childbearing today. Interestingly, the Christians had a marginally higher rate than Jews.

Plus the population in 1922 of all religions, was 757,182, not 582,000, so the 349,933 natural increase for all religions is not unusual.

don't try it again bozo, I'll always make you look like the fool you are.  And, apologize to Penelope, she was right.

Fact, population in 1922.

Moslems ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 590,890
Jews ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 83,794
Christians ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 73,024
Druzes ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 7,028
Samaritans ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 163
Bahais ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 265
Metawallis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 156
Hindoos ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,454
Sikhs ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 408
_______

Total ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 757,182
- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> View attachment 32900



Dude, this is getting very, very, very, very old.  Who paid the most in taxes?


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

Humanity said:


> > The arab muslims lost ownership and control in *1099 *and have never managed to reclaim it since.
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Come, come now Humanity.  Phoenall was talking 1099 CE.  The Israelites could go back to at least 1000BCE for their claim.

But these 'old' claims and bickering and grudges do nothing to promote the peace needed today.  Now.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

teddyearp said:


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Who cares who paid more real estate taxes?


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Who cares who paid more real estate taxes?



I do.  I think it shows who was more responsible to the country.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
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> > Who cares who paid more real estate taxes?
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Come on, get serious.  taxes were paid on the value of the land based on the sale price.  The Christians and Muslims owned the land for centuries  with sale prices consistent with the values in the past, the Jews were new buyers and paid a lot more for the land so the value on which tax was assessed was higher.  Plus the Jews owned more urban land valued higher.  It has nothing to do with who was more responsible.


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## teddyearp (Oct 15, 2014)

Ok, Pal(i), let me chew you up and then spit you out . . . . 



montelatici said:


> <snip>but *I am far smarter than you* are and will call you every time you try something like this, you lying piece of shit.



Now a statement like this goes a long long ways to 'prove' that you are right and I am wrong.  Any thinking person will see this as your ulterior admitance of the fact that you do know you're wrong and fighting a losing battle.



montelatici said:


> The 349,933 was the natural increase, of all religions, not just Muslims.



Ooops, yes you are correct.  *I made a mistake*. The amount from your table that I meant to post was the 261,602. But are you ever willing to admit any mistakes in your postings here? Wait for it . . . . . wait for it . . . . 



montelatici said:


> Plus the population in 1922 of all religions, was 757,182, not 582,000, so the 349,933 natural increase for all religions is not unusual.



So with my admission of making a mistake on the numbers I posted above, my post of approx 582,000 is representative of the numbers of the moslems in 1922.  But still, for there to be a 'natural' (meaning births over deaths) increase of 261,602 from a population of approx 582,000 in fifteen years; you call this not unusual?  I call it a very skewed count.



montelatici said:


> don't try it again *bozo,* I'll always make you look like the fool you are.



Again, anyone here with half a mind will see this as a last ditch effort by someone who has been proven so wrong that name calling is all they have left.


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## montelatici (Oct 15, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> Ok, Pal(i), let me chew you up and then spit you out . . . .
> 
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Actually, I proved you wrong.  And you admitted it.  The difference between Muslims, Christians and Jews in terms of natural growth for the period is approximately 50%% for Muslims, 30% for Christians and 28% for Jews.   Muslims have more offspring even today than Jews or Christians, so no, it is quite normal.  And, more importantly, they are statistics confirmed by the British census takers.

You are denying facts written down in black and white  because you don't like them. The British didn't have any particular axe to grind, in preparing the survey, they just wanted to get the f-ck out of there.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Phoenall said:
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The lines were drawn, and the Arabs kept attacking and getting their butts kicked. Keep up.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


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Looks like the Jews were paying for the welfare of the Arabs.  And that's exactly why Arabs kept invading in greater and greater numbers.  True story dude.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

montelatici said:


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1922?  You are quoting numbers for the ENTIRE area declared as Jewish Palestine, Isrsel, and Arab Palestine, which is JORDANi!  Ha ha ha ha.

You are fulla crap.  Why don't you tell us how is it that Jews were MAJORITY in Jerusalem in 1896?

Here is your "mandate for Palestine" circa 1922 by "League of Nations". Perhaps the Mooooslem squatters and genocidal maniacs  should have taken Jordan, and stayed there, eh?  Just a thought.


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## Roudy (Oct 15, 2014)

Humanity said:


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It was "harmonious" because it was being controlled by the strong-armed Ottoman Turks, who oppressed the Jews and Christians as non Muslims.  So everybody sat in their assigned places and followed the rules, OUT OF FEAR.  But once the empire collapsed, the Arabs wanted to turn the area into yet another shithole controlled by Arab Muslims by doing the usual Islamic thing, committing ethnic cleansing and mass murder in Jews,...and things just didn't quite work out that way, did they?

Here is an example of Muslims living "harmoniously" with Jews:


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## teddyearp (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Actually, I proved you wrong.  And you admitted it. . . .



You haven't proven a thing at all.  I admitted to using a wrong figure, that is all.  So let's keep my question very simple so that you can give one simple straight answer.

How do you figure adding some 200k+ from over 500k people is a 'natural' increase.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I proved you wrong.  And you admitted it. . . .
> ...



He added Jordan,where Arab Palestine was supposed to be, into the numbers. LOL


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

teddyearp said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I proved you wrong.  And you admitted it. . . .
> ...




"Around the world, death rates gradually
decreased in the late 19th and the 20th
centuries, with death rates in developing
countries.... rates of population growth of 3 percent or even
4 percent a year"
http://www.worldbank.org/depweb/english/beyond/beyondco/beg_03.pdf


The period covered was 1922-1937 = 15 years. 15 years x 3% =45% 15 years x 4= 60%, Muslim rate in Palestine was 50% for the period. Now shut up and just accept the facts.


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## Indofred (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".



I'm going to come round to your place, then steal your TV, stereo, mobile phone and anything else I can get hold of.
I'm then going to sell it to a friend.
That way, even though you were watching it last night and was stolen from you, you don't have any rights to it.

Ge fucked, idiot.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



60% of Jordan's population, almost 3.5 million are "Palestinians". Jordan was supposed to be Arab Palestine in 1922.  There's your population increase.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> ...



But of course you can't show us that's what happened. In fact, the Muslim animals started attacking the Jews, in jewish holy land.  That's what Muslims do.  It's Islam.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> teddyearp said:
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It is so easy to make a fool of you.  You should read the reports before commenting.  The first paragraph, quoted below, defines the boundaries of the area covered by the report.  One of the boundaries (on the east) is Trans-Jordan. Now, I don't want your head to blow up but, how can a land that is a boundary of the land being covered by a report, be included in the report?  Again, careful, don't think so hard.

"Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.

On the south-west it is bounded by Egyptian territory, on the south-east by the Gulf of Aqaba, *on the east by Trans-Jordan*, on the north by the French Mandated territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean..."

. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1936


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
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Yet you included numbers from 1922, when Jordan was included.  Your bullshit numbers are all over the place.  Now who is the false propagandist who is a fool.

Mandate for Palestine:

"Whereas recognition has thereby [i.e. by the Treaty of Sèvres] been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine, and to the grounds for reconstituting their National Home in that country ..."

Jordan is Arab Palestine:

" In March 1921 the Colonial Secretary, Winston Churchill, convened the Cairo Conference which endorsed an arrangement whereby Transjordan would be added to the Palestine mandate, with Abdullah as the emir under the authority of the High Commissioner, and with the condition that the Jewish National Home provisions of the Palestine mandate would not apply there."


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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> 
> > teddyearp said:
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I don't know what your point is, but Trans-Jordan is not included in the report as it was never part of Palestine.  The report in question, quoted below, is quite clear that one of the borders of Palestine is, in fact, Trans-Jordan. So Trans-Jordan cannot possibly be included. But thinking about that will cause your head to blow up, so just accept the conclusion that you are wrong as usual. 

You will constantly lose Ruddy.  Between your lack of intelligence and the Zionist brainwashing you will always be regarded as a clown when you open your mouth..

"Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between latitude 30° N. and 33° N., Longitude 34° 30 E. and 35° 30' E.

On the south-west it is bounded by Egyptian territory, on the south-east by the Gulf of Aqaba, *on the east by Trans-Jordan*, on the north by the French Mandated territories of Syria and the Lebanon, and on the west by the Mediterranean. "

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1936


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## DriftingSand (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> 
> The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.
> 
> Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years.   In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:



I wonder who drew the map.  I'm sure that the Arabs would present a completely different picture.  History can be whatever its author says it is.  There were always be more than one side to a story but there is only one TRUTH!


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## GHook93 (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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Exactly!

During the 1800s the land was sparsely populated, but even then Jerusalem had a Jewish majority. That is a fact. During the late 1800s the Jews started to return. Jewish communities were starting the transformation of the "flower in the desert!" With this economic revival brought along Arab squatters. In fact Tel Aviv was founded in 1909 when the land was still under Ottoman Rule. 

Then came the British Rule in 1914 after WW I. During this time the Jews were forbidden to immigrate to the lands, yes Muslims could immigrate without even getting their bags checked. During this time it was the vast majority of the people who call themselves Palestinians came to the lands. The narrative that the Muslim revisionist state that most were on the lands for centuries was a great lie! Most came from Syria, Iraq, Arabia, Egypt etc. They were natives in any senses of the word!


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## GHook93 (Oct 16, 2014)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> ...



How about you go fuck yourself with a 10 foot black dildo?


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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No, Trans Jordan was not included in 1922.  In fact, Trans-Jordan was specifically excluded.  Why do you continue making a fool of yourself. 

" The Order in Council also contains a provision that it shall not apply to the Transjordan territory."

 - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations 31 December 1922


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

GHook93 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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As of 1896, notwithstanding the European invasion of Jews, indigenous non-Jews were still 50% of the population of Jerusalem (and 95% of the population of Palestine)  as confirmed in a unique period film:


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## DriftingSand (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> GHook93 said:
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Interesting.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> ...



Idiot, this is a map of the Ottoman Empire at the time.  Are you trying to change world history now?  Ha ha ha.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> GHook93 said:
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And yet, despite the propaganda clip you presented, in 1896 Jews were the majority in Jerusalem, not the invading Arab squatters. You keep failing at every turn. Ha ha ha.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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THE DIVISION OF THE MANDATE FOR PALESTINE

In 1923 the British "chopped off" 75% of the proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian Nation of "Trans-Jordan," meaning "across the Jordan River." The Palestinian Arabs now had THEIR homeland... the remaining 25% of the original Palestinian territory (west of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland. However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then or now and they were determined to get ALL of that remaining 25%. Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron slaughters of 1929 and later the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British, at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became obvious to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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1896 video shows Jewish majority in Jerusalem:


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


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Why do you post Zionist propaganda and opinion.  I posted links to official documents which say what they say.  Trans-Jordan was a separate territory that had nothing to do with Palestine territorially.  You can ahead and make things up all you want.  You are wrong and are making a fool of yourself.


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## Saigon (Oct 16, 2014)

I have never understood why supporting Israel on this board seems to be synonymous with lying. 

For anyone who genuinely cares about Israel and Israeli people it is hugely dispiriting to see them sold down the river by people who consider the entire conflict little more than a childrens sandpit game. A game in which their own lives are never at stake. 

There is a lot of dishonesty and distortion on the Palestinian side of history, some of which we see on this board, but there is nothing like the systematic allergy to truth, facts and honesty that we see from Israeli 'supporters' here. 

It's always been my hope that more Israelis would urge them to stop, but instead I think it just means few Israelis actually want to post here.


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## Saigon (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Why do you post Zionist propaganda and opinion.  I posted links to official documents which say what they say.  Trans-Jordan was a separate territory that had nothing to do with Palestine territorially.  You can ahead and make things up all you want.  You are wrong and are making a fool of yourself.



Exactly...and don't think Roudy is unaware of this, either. 

Most of the distortion and lying here is very deliberate, and there is no way you'll ever get him to debate the topic honestly or sensibly.


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## Saigon (Oct 16, 2014)

For anyone interested in the facts, this is a pretty good starting point:

According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns;* roughly 85% were Muslims*, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews[24]

There is an excellent table here, but I'm having trouble C&Ping it without it resetting itself into a format that is hard to read:

Demographics of Palestine - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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You should be the one to speak about propaganda, most of the board considers you the Baghdad Bob of Hamas, silly man.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Saigon said:


> For anyone interested in the facts, this is a pretty good starting point:
> 
> According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns;* roughly 85% were Muslims*, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews[24]
> 
> ...


Demographic Shmemographic.  The land was Ottoman territory and the Arabs had no say in land that did not belong to them. Period.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Saigon said:


> I have never understood why supporting Israel on this board seems to be synonymous with lying.
> 
> For anyone who genuinely cares about Israel and Israeli people it is hugely dispiriting to see them sold down the river by people who consider the entire conflict little more than a childrens sandpit game. A game in which their own lives are never at stake.
> 
> ...



Pali terrorist ass kissers come in all sizes and shapes, in the case of Saigooon his shtick is posing as an Israeli supporter. Ha ha ha.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
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That's better.  You finally realize you are better off shutting up about the issue and hurl personal insults.  It kind of gives you an honorable way out after looking like such a fool. By the way, most of board knows that my position is consistent with the official record and my assertions are always confirmed by the official historical record.  I don't do propaganda like you do.


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## Saigon (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy -

Yeah...I'm an Israeli supporter who lived 1500 metres from Lebanon during the Lebanon War, and six kms from Syria, and who has been back to the Middle East a dozen times since then.

I believe that Israel has a cast iron historical claim to land, and I believe its future lies in setting an ethical standard for the region; encouraging Palestinians to work with Israelis for a carrot, and moving away from simply beating them with sticks.

I also believe that your constant and deliberate lying, distorting and childish abuse undermine Israel and Israel's goals, because you make Israelis look like liars, fools and thieves. I am very relieved that I know most Israeli would fnd you as embarassing as I do.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > For anyone interested in the facts, this is a pretty good starting point:
> ...



As the record shows.  The Arabs owned more than 90% of Palestine in 1943, as confirmed by the per-partition survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations in order to validate the historical record.  Of course, after partition the Zionist propaganda started up attempting to muddy the waters.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Scream and holler all you want Jordan was indeed part of the British Palestine mandate and designated as Arab Palestine by League of Nations while West of the Jordan river was to be Jewish Palestine aka Israel. You quoted numbers for 1922 and I pointed that in 1922 those numbers included Jordan. Then you posted a lame video of 1896 and I pointed out that in 1896 Jews were majority population in Jerusalem. So then you jumped to 1937 with a stupid chart which didn't account for the British encouraged massive Arab invasion into Israel at the time. 

In short you failed at every turn. You couldn't show any Arab control of the land for 700 years, you couldn't refute the fact that Jerusalem had a majority Jewish population late 1800's.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Yeah...I'm an Israeli supporter who lived 1500 metres from Lebanon during the Lebanon War, and six kms from Syria, and who has been back to the Middle East a dozen times since then.
> 
> ...



And you've been proven an ignoramus and a liar at every turn. Last we saw of you, you whined your way off the board. 

So you show posts on this board to Israelis and ask their opinion?  Ha ha ha.  OMG. That is an obvious lie and if not then you are a bum with too much time on your hands.


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## Saigon (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy - 

Two excellent sets of data have been posted in #70 and #76. 

So far you have addressed neither of them coherently nor honestly. 

By all means prove my earlier assertions wrong and actually mount an honest case, or admit that both sets of data are actually accurate. Obviously you know that they are...the only question is whether you can be honest. 


btw. I spent the summer in Tanzania. Not a lot of WiFi where I was living, hence no posting.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
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Again with the bogus irrelevant chart from a Mooslim propaganda site showing Jews being forced to pay double tax for Arab invaders. Ha ha ha.


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## Saigon (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy - 

Ok, so you still can't and won't post honestly or coherently. 

How proud you must be!


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Two excellent sets of data have been posted in #70 and #76.
> 
> ...



The OP of this thread is not whether "Arabs invaded the region, while the British restricted the Jews".  

It's a simple assertion, the land as a whole was Ottoman territory the Arabs had no say in what happened for 700 years.  The Ottoman Empire collapsed, the victors ie the British and the French gained control of the land and divided it giving 99.9999% to Muslims and Arabs, and gave a tiny slither to become the Jewish state.  Arabs didn't want any of it, and the rest is a history of Arabs trying to destroy the Jewish state and failing.


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## Saigon (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy - 

And if you could be honest enough to admit that Palestinians are not and have never been Turks, and neither are Palestinians Hashemites or Syrians or Egyptians, you would actually have a discussion worth entering into. 

How can you expect anyone to discuss anything with you when we all know that everything you post is a distortion, and that you flat out refuse to discuss anything anyone else posts sensibly?


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> Ok, so you still can't and won't post honestly or coherently.
> 
> ...


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> And if you could be honest enough to admit that Palestinians are not and have never been Turks, and neither are Palestinians Hashemites or Syrians or Egyptians, you would actually have a discussion worth entering into.
> 
> How can you expect anyone to discuss anything with you when we all know that everything you post is a distortion, and that you flat out refuse to discuss anything anyone else posts sensibly?



Did anybody claim that the Palestinians are Turks, moron?  Wow you are dense.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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> > montelatici said:
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And how did you come to that conclusion?  As I told you, most of the board considers you a paid propagandist, an anti Semite, and professional liar.  Ha ha ha.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Saigon said:


> Roudy -
> 
> And if you could be honest enough to admit that Palestinians are not and have never been Turks, and neither are Palestinians Hashemites or Syrians or Egyptians, you would actually have a discussion worth entering into.
> 
> How can you expect anyone to discuss anything with you when we all know that everything you post is a distortion, and that you flat out refuse to discuss anything anyone else posts sensibly?



The topic of this thread isn't "the origins of the Palestinian people" but yes, many Arabs who call themselves Palestinians as of the 1960's did invade from Egypt and Syria. That is a historical fact that Churchill even noted. Even Yasser Arafat their founder  was born and raised in Egypt.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy -
> ...



No matter how blather on with the propaganda, the Arabs owned more than 90% of the land in Palestine in 1943.  A third party has no right to take land away from the rightful indigenous owners and give it to people from another owner. The action went contrary to the Mandate and was, if not illegal, patently unfair.  Which is why the UN continues to support the refugees they created through their crazy decision.  And, as far as the partition land/population statistics, there were 1,237,000 Christians and Muslims in Palestine versus 638,000 Jews.  The UN gave 56.47% of the land to the Jews and 43.53% to the Christians and Muslims.  

Furthermore the Jews began expelling the non-Jews from the land assigned to them in November of 1947 and had expelled more than 250,000 non-Jews out of their area of the partition before the partition was declared.

So enough of your propaganda.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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> > Roudy said:
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No that's funny Ruddy.  I deal in facts and official documents reflecting the closest one can get to historical truth.  You are 100% a propaganda monger.  Your attempt at deflection is, in fact, hilarious.  By the way, PMs are possible on this site, and I receive them, I know how people feel about my posts.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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> > Saigon said:
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Yeah, it was a "crazy" decision to give less than 1% of the land so the Jews can have a state in their holy land and land their ancestors roamed. What in the world were they thinking?  Why not all the world be Moooslem lands?  Moooslems invaded and squatted so now it's their land.  

Still can't show us why Jews were majority in Jerusalem in 1896, eh?  You keep diverting to this stupid bullshit chart from a Mooooslem propaganda site. Land was not under Arab control for 700 years...read the OP of this thread again. 

Another of your epic fails.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
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Yeah your bullshit charts, youtube clips, posts from Palestine monitor and other propaganda and anti Semetic sites speak for themselves.

Yes, PM's are possible, but your numbers speak for itself:

MOHOMOD LATICI the paid Pali propagandist:
Joined:
Feb 5, 2014
Messages:
2,956
Thanks Received:
304
Trophy Points:
80
Ratings:
+638
EPIC FAIL!


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Saigon said:
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> > Roudy -
> ...



Again the constant propaganda.  Setting aside Palestinian parliamentarians elected to the new parliament after the new Ottoman constitution was promulgated in 1876.   Unfortunately, the Parliamentary decrees are in Turkish.  Muslims and Christians called themselves the People of Palestine well before 1960. You are always pushing the propaganda Ruddy.  that's all you do:

Here is text from one the letters sent by the Palestinian Delegation to London  to the British in 1922:

*"PALESTINE. CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB DELEGATION"
Presented to Parliament by Command of His Majesty. JUNE, 1922. LONDON: *​.........Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable. If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day* the People of Palestine *assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration. ........" 



 - See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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> 
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None of my links are from Palestinian sites or anti-Semitic sites, as you well know.  They are almost all from the UN archives or the archives of educational institutions.

What would it be "epic" in your pea brain Ruddy?   I mean, it's not like we are writing the Ilyad.

Why don't you quit while you are ahead.  We all now see that all you post is propaganda and just flat out lie.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
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> > Roudy said:
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"Yeah, it was a "crazy" decision to give less than 1% of the land"

Jews were given more than 50% of Palestine with a third of the population of Palestine.  that's just a fact.

"Still can't show us why Jews were majority in Jerusalem in 1896, eh? "

I think you should reread your comment above. Since Jews were not a majority in Jerusalem in 1896 but roughly equal in number to the Christians and Muslims (and less than 5% of the population of Palestine) why should I try to "show us (you) why Jews were a majority in Jerusalem in 1896".  Can you elaborate?


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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Epic as the massive the of failures you cause for yourself.  Constantly repeating that your propaganda crap isnt propaganda crap doesn't make it so. And the only time you quote "UN archives" you misquote, misinterpret and internationally mislead.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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How can excerpts from official documents be propaganda?  I think I now realize what your (and many of your cohort's) problem is, you don't actually know what propaganda is.  You are convinced that information from official sources that unmask Zionist propaganda is, in fact, propaganda.  That is not case.  The propaganda are the lies and half lies used to manufacture the Zionist propaganda, the facts contained in official documents in neutral archives are not propaganda. Get it?


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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Excuse us...but...aren't you the anti semetic lying asshole who keeps posting a propaganda video from youtube about "absence of Jews in Palestine in 1896"? Yet the truth is exactly the opposite, the Jews compromised a majority in Jerusalem at the same time.  That's why you should provide an answer.  

Of course, since you are a shameless, useless, ineffective, delusional liar, you will continue to claim that your bullshit isn't bullshit.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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How can the actual text, which is what I post, be a misquotation, a misinterpretation or misleading?  We now know you don't know what propaganda is.  Are you uncertain as to what those words mean?  Text, direct from the source cannot be any of those things.  Isn't it better to stop digging Ruddy?


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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it is not a official source.  I found the same document on a pro Pali Moooslem site.  It separates Jews and lumps Christians and Muslims together.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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You don't post the text that says the League of Nations and British had designated the area to be Jewish Palestine. You make false claims about ethnic cleansing, while everybody knows it was the Arab attacks and the Palesnians who took their side that caused the "refugees".


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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I posted a unique documentary by the Lumiere brothers (who invented the moving picture) of Palestine in 1896.  The documentary says what it says.  Your propaganda says something different, it says that Jews represented 50% of the population of Jerusalem and just 5% of the population of Palestine, which is in my opinion correct.  I have no indication that a neutral documentary would not provide the facts. 

I don't know what "Jews compromised a majority in Jerusalem" means but, you have certainly compromised your credibility on this site.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
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You found nothing credible that disputes the facts contained in the official documents. If you had you would have linked to it.  Constant lying Ruddy. Everybody sees it.  Quit while you're ahead.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
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oh really?  I posted a chart from wiki for Jerusalem in 1896 with its various sources clearly listed.  That's not propaganda, but you can go ahead and try to discredit them if you wish.  Good luck. LOL

So youR claim that "no JEWS in Palestine" IS based on ONE youtube clip?  Ha ha ha...you are beyond pathetic. Funny, you want people to take you seriously.  If you have other numbers for Jerusalem in 1986 put those up.  Otherwise you will continue to be who you are, a liar propagandist for IslamoNazism.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



I actually did in another thread and I'm not about to waste my time searching just because a BUM says so. Why don't you show us the DIRECT LINK and Site you obtained it from. 

As I said even if so, that doesn't add up to a hill of beans, we all know the Arabs invaded "Palestine" in hoards. That, has been well documented.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



There were no Arab "hordes"  the Arabian desert is not conducive to large populations.  Just simple logic should tell you that, oh wait, Ruddy/Logic mutually exclusive.  As the historical record confirms the "hordes", for the most parts,  were made up of converts led by a relatively small Arabian officer corp.

"But what is surprising is what came afterwards. Unlike the Huns, and the Goths, the Avars and the Mongols, the Arabs are still with us. They succeeded in impressing their language and culture on the region we now consider the Arab world, subsuming the indigenous cultures and languages,* even though they were a tiny minority compared to the peoples they conquered....."

Why did the Arabs thrive while the Huns and Avars died out Islam CatholicHerald.co.uk
*
By the way it is a Catholic site, so bias is not an issue.

If you are talking about the Survey of Palestine regarding the other issue, the direct link I have (and have always provided) for the Survey of Palestine  is from the Berman Jewish Policy Archive.  I downloaded all three volumes from there.   

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Well we do know that the Arabs invaded.  Your charts are merely reflecting a massive Arab invasion into a land that was not theirs.  :

By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective_Jewish_ immigrants. 

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922–36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.” 9

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is . . . due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” 

*FACT*
The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II, while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. 13 In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. 14

This rapid growth of the Arab population was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states—constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel—by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. 15 The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. 16

The Arab population increased the most in cities where large Jewish populations had created new economic opportunities. From 1922–1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent inJerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem. 17

*“It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping” (emphasis in the original).*

*— Transjordan’s King Abdullah *


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## Indofred (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



The mass illegal immigrants immediately tried to set up a Jewish state, and created terrorist groups such as the Stern gang, who wanted to, and actually did, mass murder Arabs and British troops.
The locals weren't very happy at these illegal Jewish immigrants.


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Why do you post opinion without a link to the source.  The population statistics direct from the source have been posted many times.  What you post is not fact.  It is Zionist propaganda, from Zionist sites which you cut and paste attempting to claim that it is your own writing.  Don't you understand everyone can see through it, you really stupid person.




By the way here is a fact regarding the population of Palestine prepared by the UN, prior to Partition in 1947:

The figures given for the distribution of the settled population in the two proposed States, as estimated on the basis of official figures up to the end of 1946, are approximately as follows:166/






JewsArabs and otherstotalThe Jewish State498,000407,000905,000The Arab State10,000725,000735,000City of Jerusalem100,000105,000205,000
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]A 364 of 3 September 1947

Notice how Jews are a minority in Jerusalem at the end of 1946.


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Saigon said:
> ...



Yeah nice going, that's the Arab delegation who had no control over the land, writing to the British govt. Asking permission for another Moooslem takeover, and the British politely told them to take a hike, and shove it up their Mohammad.  The uncompromising greedy Arab Muslim animals wanted the entire Middle East to be in Moooslem hands.  Here is the British response, moron:

JEWISH MIGRATION = LEGAL
ARAB INVASION = TOTALLY ILLEGAL


4. With regard to Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, I am to observe that this Article, in so far as it applies to territories severed from the Ottoman Empire, has been interpreted by the Principal Allied Powers in Articles 94 to 97 of the Treaty of Sevres, Syria and Iraq are explicitly referred to in Article 94 of that Treaty as having been provisionally recognised as Independent States, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. Article 95, on the other hand, makes no such reference to Palestine. The reason for this is that, as stated in that Article, the Mandatory is to be responsible for putting into effect the Declaration originally made on the 2nd November, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people.

6. The references in your letter under reply to "a great immigration of alien Jews," "a flood of alien immigration," and "a flood of alien Jewish immigration," coupled with the request that the British Government should "put a stop to all alien immigration," and the reference to the Zionist Organisation in Clause 2 of paragraph _(d) _of your letter, *indicate that your Delegation and the community which they represent, imperfectly apprehend the interpretation placed *by His Majesty's Government upon the policy of the National Home for the Jewish people. This interpretation was publicly given in Palestine on the 3rd June, 1921, by the High Commissioner in the following words :—

* " These words (National Home) mean that the Jews, who are a people scattered throughout the world, but whose hearts are always turned to Palestine should be enabled to found here their home,* and that some amongst them, within the limits fixed by numbers and the interests of the present population, should come to Palestine..."
_Paragraph _(f).—The recognition of Hebrew as an official language is provided for in Article 22 of the draft Mandate for Palestine, in pursuance of the policy of the establishment in that country of a National Home for the Jewish People. Mr. Churchill does not agree that the expense involved is a sufficient reason for this provision to be reconsidered.

- See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Why do you post opinion without a link to the source.  The population statistics direct from the source have been posted many times.  What you post is not fact.  It is Zionist propaganda, from Zionist sites which you cut and paste attempting to claim that it is your own writing.  Don't you understand everyone can see through it, you really stupid person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At the end of the Arab invasion?  So what. Ha ha ha. What an idiot. 

"Notice how Arabs invaded and I have a document that proves it?"


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## theliq (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> You want maps?  Here is some free aducashun.  I


Well it certainly  wasn't Israel......but of course it was Palestine.....your crappy map is one of those provided by the Terrorist Zionists(which shows this a uninhabited land I assume LOL)What complete TRASH..........there are so many maps showing exactly where Palestine was and is.....as a member of a Terrorist Organization.........I expect nothing better from you...........Grow a backbone for once in your life.....and admit the error of your ways Roudy then at least we can have some form of debate...steve


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

theliq said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > You want maps?  Here is some free aducashun.  I
> ...



Did you fart out of your mouth again?  The fact that the Ottoman Empire existed and today's Israel was part of it is irrefutable fact.  There are thousand maps that will confirm this.  And Palestine was known as "southern Syria" in these maps, and it certainly wasn't it's own country nor did Arabs own it.  If you don't believe me look it up.  Why do you people insist on proving how ignorant and uneducated you are?  Ha ha ha .


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## montelatici (Oct 16, 2014)

Roudy said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



The Ottomans already called it Palestine.  I looked it up.






The first map in this collection was published in _Filastin Risalesi_, an official publication of the Ottoman army intended to be used as an officer’s manual for the Palestine region.The manual itself is a social, topographical, demographic and economic survey of Palestine circa its time of publication, 1331 (Rumi).[2]


Afternoon Map Ottoman and Arab Maps of Palestine 1880s-1910s


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
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Oh, so all the searches were futile except you found this map IN ARABIC of the Ottoman Empire in the 1800's?!  OMG, is this guy for real?

EPIC FAIL AGAIN!


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

Meanwhile, THE ARABS THEMSELVES CALLED IT SOUTHERN SYRIA!

Why so little faith in Palestine?  Because Palestine is an invented name for an invented people. 

*Southern Syria* (سوريا الجنوبية, _Suriyya al-Janubiyya_) is a term that refers to the southern part of the Syria region, also known as the Levant.

In Arabic, the term "Southern Syria" could imply support for the Greater Syria nationalism associated with the kingdom promised to the Hashemite dynasty of the Hejaz by the British during World War I. After the war, the Hashemite prince Faisal attempted to establish such a Greater Syrian or pan-Mashriq state—a united kingdom that would comprise all of what eventually becameSyria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Palestine, Kuwait and Iraq, but he was stymied by conflicting promises made by the British to different parties (see Sykes–Picot Agreement), leading to the French creation of the mandate of Syria and Lebanon in 1920. Through the Ottoman period, prior to World War I, the Levant was administered and viewed locally as one entity.[_citation needed_]

Use of the term was common by the early 20th century[1] and still an occasionally used term in politics, literature and local history of the region.[2][3]

According to the Minutes of the Ninth Session of the League of Nations' Permanent Mandate Commission, "Southern Syria" was suggested as the name of Mandatory Palestine in the Arabic language. The reports say the following:

"Colonel Symes explained that the country was described as 'Palestine' by Europeans and as 'Falestin' by the Arabs. The Hebrew name for the country was the designation 'Land of Israel', and the Government, to meet Jewish wishes, had agreed that the word "Palestine" in Hebrew characters should be followed in all official documents by the initials which stood for that designation. As a set-off to this, certain of the Arab politicians suggested that the country should be called 'Southern Syria' in order to emphasise its close relation with another Arab State".[4]





Territories included in Syrian provinces throughout the Ottoman era


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## Roudy (Oct 16, 2014)

I guess the illiterate village idiot didn't know "Falastin" is the Arabic, NOT TURKISH word for Palestine.

Live and learn Mohomod, live and learn.  Well in your case it's lie and learn.


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## Roudy (Oct 17, 2014)

Gee, I wonder where Moe went?


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

Palestine 100 AD


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Palestine 100 AD



Ha ha ha. You are a pathetic, desperate propagandist.  This is not an Ottoman map is it?  Which means the land had not been called Palestine for the last 700 years by the Ottomans, the people it belonged to, not the invading, squatting Arabs.


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

How long had it been since it was called Israel?  I posted an Ottoman map which called Palestine already.  That wasn't the point.  The point is that it has been called Palestine since at least the date of that Byzantine map, 100 AD. Here is another map of Palestine from 1893:


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> I guess the illiterate village idiot didn't know "Falastin" is the Arabic, NOT TURKISH word for Palestine.
> 
> Live and learn Mohomod, live and learn.  Well in your case it's lie and learn.



Try inserting Palestine in Google translate and see what you get in Turkish. LOL

You really try hard to make a fool of yourself.


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## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Palestine 100 AD


And no palistanians around, of course. As expected.


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

docmauser1 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine 100 AD
> ...




No, of course not, the Palistanians live in the town of the same name in Australia.  

There were, of course, many Palestinians then, more than in 1921, called Palaestinorum in Latin.  (the plural of Palaestino)


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## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


So, why did they go to palistan then?


montelatici said:


> There were, of course, many Palestinians then, more than in 1921, called Palaestinorum in Latin.  (the plural of Palaestino)


Of course! Palistanians hadn't had swooped in from palistan, yet.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> How long had it been since it was called Israel?  I posted an Ottoman map which called Palestine already.  That wasn't the point.  The point is that it has been called Palestine since at least the date of that Byzantine map, 100 AD. Here is another map of Palestine from 1893:



You are missing the point, dipshit, Palestine has not been Arab territory for over 700 years. Even the Ottomans didn't call it Palestine, it was considered southern Southern Syria by the Europeans and Ottomans.  "The Palestinian people" is a recent invention. 

Another epic fail.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



And all the Palestinian towns had Hebrew names. The West Bank is another invention as of 1948 after it was occupied by the JORDANIANS. It  has been called Judeah and Samaria of ancient Israelfor 3000 years.


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

One can tell when the mental midget Ruddy get frustrated.  Oh, the Ottomans called it Palestine or Filistin as in the Ottoman map I posted earlier.  Palestine in Turkish is Filistin, go ahead use Google translate.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> One can tell when the mental midget Ruddy get frustrated.  Oh, the Ottomans called it Palestine or Filistin as in the Ottoman map I posted earlier.  Palestine in Turkish is Filistin, go ahead use Google translate.



Actually, you're bullshitting again. The same site you posted the map from said there is no mention of Palestine, as the region was officially called Southern Syria by the Ottomans and their maps listed it as such.  But if you want to go around that same circle once again we can do that. Your propaganda keeps failing at every turn.  Don't you have a life other than spreading lies of behalf of genocidal terrorists on the Internet?


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## Esmeralda (Oct 18, 2014)

The Jews had no more right to the land than the Arabs did. The British caused the entire Middle East crisis, which just goes on and on and on.


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> The Jews had no more right to the land than the Arabs did. The British caused the entire Middle East crisis, which just goes on and on and on.


Yup.  The land had not been "Arab Land" for 700 years, it belonged to the Ottomans, who actually called it Southern Syria.

So the Jews didn't "steal" anybody's land. The conquering powers,the British, French and League of Nations divided the all remains of the Ottoman Empire into Muslim shitholes, except for 1% which they gave to the Jews to establish a homeland on their ancient holy land which they have been praying to for 3000 years. 

Apparently Muslims had no problem with all the Muslim shitholes that were created from the Ottoman Empire, but that one Jewish state was just totally unacceptable and had to be destroyed. This conflict, is not and has never been about "land". It is about Muslim intolerance and inability to coexist.


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## Esmeralda (Oct 18, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews had no more right to the land than the Arabs did. The British caused the entire Middle East crisis, which just goes on and on and on.
> ...


Actually,  during the 1967 war, the Jews took over more land than they had been given as a homeland.  Their behavior from that time until the present is the reason the conflict just goes on and on.


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## Phoenall (Oct 18, 2014)

montelatici said:


> FACT:View attachment 32891 ARABS owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  All the deflection, tap dancing, whining, coloring book maps  and stamping of feet won't change the facts contained in the Survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations prior to partition:





 WRONG as you have been told many times, and this is why you refuse to provide a link

 So how about it Mohamed produce the link so we can destroy your post


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



So how come the "Palestinians" didn't ask for their ""homeland" when Jordan and Egypt had total control of "West Bank" and Gaza.  How come there was no discussion of this mythical Palestinian homeland and its mythical people?  I don't remember any suicide bombings and rockets being shot into Jordan and Egypt from 1948 to 1967 because they had stolen someone's "land" do you?


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## Phoenall (Oct 18, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...





 The Jews took nothing that was not theirs in 1967, they occupied the land as a defensive measure to stop the murders of Israeli children by Palestinian terrorists


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## Roudy (Oct 18, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



But the Arabs keep telling us that the Jews stole this Palestinian land, even though there was no such thing, nor was there a Palestinian people.


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## montelatici (Oct 18, 2014)

Well, perhaps we can call them by another name, to suit you.  Let's call them the people that were living in Palestine before the Europeans settled and expelled them.


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## Roudy (Oct 20, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Well, perhaps we can call them by another name, to suit you.  Let's call them the people that were living in Palestine before the Europeans settled and expelled them.



Let's call them the Arab invaders and squatters who hijacked an invented name and identity for themselves. 

As the evidence clearly shows, the Jews stole no ones land, you have not provided any evidence to that effect, just desperate failed attempts.


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## aris2chat (Oct 20, 2014)

This Ottoman map of the region.  This is how the region has been seen as for most of the arab occupation.  
Palestine is a western designation left over from the Romans of a region much like the sahara, northern tundra, siberia, west africa, south east asia.  No specific line or international borders.  Vague areas that have different beginning and ends to each group that tries to define it.  Like placing a hand on a map and labeling it without regard to tribes, communities, people or local authority.

Lines only exist, and they can even be fluid, for the extent of the empire.  No lines set in stone, only which forts, villages or towns are under their control and a general patrol path from those points.


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## aris2chat (Oct 20, 2014)

no borders set to show a palestine, just markings of villages and topography.  This was how muslims saw the region over a millennia.


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## aris2chat (Oct 20, 2014)

No palestine.


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## aris2chat (Oct 20, 2014)

No autonomous or distinct palestine


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## Roudy (Oct 20, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> View attachment 33096
> 
> No autonomous or distinct palestine



And, since we both can read Arabic, you can confirm that the title of the map says in Arabic "Lebanon Syria".  No mention of Palestine. 

Funny how even the Arabs didn't look at it as Palestine, yet we keep hearing about these Palestinians with "ancient roots" who's mythical land got stolen. 

"Palestine" is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on humanity.


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## aris2chat (Oct 20, 2014)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 33096
> ...



Even under the romans the territory was under the governorship of syria.
Lebanon has off and on been autonomous.  Lebanon area, west of the mountains has been named Liban (Lebanon), Phoenicia or Beirut.
Palestine was a name used in the Bible after the Jewish revolt.  It was an insult to Jewish independence.  A way of telling the jews that Rome was master.


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## Roudy (Oct 21, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> View attachment 33096
> 
> No autonomous or distinct palestine



Aris, can you read in Arabic, where Jerusalem is marked in the large pink background, it calls the province  "Jabbal Al Yahoodiah"?

Yahoodiah = Jewish region.

Or am I wrong?  Check it out. There might be more to this map than you thought.


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## aris2chat (Oct 21, 2014)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 33096
> ...



Jewish (اليهودية.) Mount ( جبل) 
the script is hard to read

Jerusalem (أورشليم)
Al-Quds (القدس‎)‎


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## Phoenall (Oct 21, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Well, perhaps we can call them by another name, to suit you.  Let's call them the people that were living in Palestine before the Europeans settled and expelled them.






 Living and owning are two different things. Try this you are given 1,000 acres of prime real estate by its legal owners and you find some itinerant illiterate squatters occupying your land and refusing to move or pay rent and taxes. So what do you do to these squatters. Do you allow them to carry on depriving you of your land, and the income it can generate for you, or do you run them off and keep them locked out of your land.

 That is the situation in Israel, the arab muslims were there illegally and under International law if they did not want to be full citizens of Israel then they were hostiles and faced one of three outcomes. EVICTION, PRISON or DEATH


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## Roudy (Oct 21, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



 So on this Ottoman map that is about 500 years old at least, they referred to Mount Sinai as the "Jewish Mount", and no mention of Palestine or "Falstin". Very interesting.


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## Roadrunner (Oct 21, 2014)

Roudy said:


> Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> 
> The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.
> 
> Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years.   In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:


The whole mid-East problem is a Muslim schism wrapped inside a Persian/Turk struggle to determine who will rule the Arabs.

Lines drawn by dead Brits only complicate the problem.

We should back off and let them solve it themselves.


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## Roudy (Oct 21, 2014)

Roadrunner said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> ...



Hence the reason the Turks and Saudis gave rise to ISIS, in order to stop and reverse the expansion of Shiite Iran.  This ancient blood flood will never end. All the West needs to do is fan the flames and reap the rewards, as they have throughout history.


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## aris2chat (Oct 21, 2014)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Judaean Mountain range that includes Mt. Zion and Mt. Moriah

Mt Sinai is down by St.Catherines near the southern tip of the Sinai


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## Roudy (Oct 21, 2014)

aris2chat said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


Thanks I confused the two.  How come they didn't call it the Palestinian Mountains?  


The Judaean Mountains, also Judaean Hills and Hebron Hills, is a mountain range in Israel and the West Bank where Jerusalem and several other biblical cities are located. The mountains reach a height of 1,000 m. Wikipedia


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## Rigby5 (Sep 27, 2019)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 33096
> ...



Nonsense.
Obviously the Ottoman empire would have an interest in suppressing any sort of local unity.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 27, 2019)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 33096
> ...



That pink region is not at all large, and in fact is tiny.
Plus there is a tiny darker green color in the middle of the pink, and that obviously is the Old Jewish Quarter, NOT the pink.
There is no pink in the legend.
You are totally misreading the map.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 27, 2019)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Well, perhaps we can call them by another name, to suit you.  Let's call them the people that were living in Palestine before the Europeans settled and expelled them.
> ...



That is a lie.
Not only where the Arab deeds and bill of sales found to be valid by the British, but there is NO Jewish right to ownership at all.  NONE!
And you lie when you claim that Arabs owning land in the half of the Palestine partition given to Israel were allowed to choose. 
Millions of them were never allowed to return to the homes after the violence was over, and they are still in refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan, etc.
The UN was very clear that neither eviction, prison, or death was legal.
Israel has no right to do any of those 3 to ANYONE at all.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 27, 2019)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



That is foolish.
The Hebrew tribes lived in the Sinai, so Sinai equates to Hebrew.
So Mount Sinai would translate to Hebrew mountain.
But that does not mean anything.
It could refer to it being a desert like the Sinai.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 27, 2019)

Roudy said:


> Roadrunner said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Wrong.
Since ISIS seems to know nothing about Islam, is mostly secular Sunni captured by the US, and intentionally trying to make Muslims look bad, it is almost for sure that it is Israel and the US who created ISIS.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 27, 2019)

Roudy said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



The invading Hebrew were not called Jews until they became associated with existing Canaanite names, like Jerusalem, Judea, Jordan, etc.  Those are Arab names, not Jewish names.


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## member (Sep 28, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Roadrunner said:
> ...






 *". . .it is almost for sure that it is Israel and the US who created ISIS."*

what an outreagous thing to say...



they 

 ...created themselves....


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## Shusha (Sep 28, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> but there is NO Jewish right to ownership at all.  NONE!



You don't seem to be very clear what you are arguing here.  You, like many, are attempting to conflate private property ownership with sovereignty.  You, like many, use this as a way to restrict Jewish rights at both ends of the candle, as it were.  Because, apparently, you think there should be different rules for Jews.  Sigh.  Where have we heard that before?

So, to be clear: 

You are arguing that the right to purchase property should be withheld from people who are Jewish?!  

and/or

You are arguing that the right to self-determination should be withheld from people who are Jewish?


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## Shusha (Sep 28, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Those are Arab names, not Jewish names.



You are trying to make the term "Arab" a catch-all phrase which encompasses the entire MENA region, going backwards for all time.  You do this for the distinct purpose of erasing "Jewish" as a separate ethnic or cultural group indigenous in the area.   

You explicitly reject the idea that this catch-all phrase of "Arab" is a result of conquest, invasion and colonization.  You do this for the distinct purpose of erasing "Jewish" as a separate ethnic or cultural group indigenous in the area.  

What you don't seem to realize is that by erasing any sub-group of the region, you are not only erasing Jewish culture, but also ALL the individual cultures which exist in the MENA region.  You are erasing EVERYBODY.  (Well, unless you have that double standard thing going on.)  

If you argue that there is no cultural or ethnic differentiation between Canaanites and Philistines and Phoenicians and Egyptians and Assyrians and Moabites and Midianites and Aramaeans because they were all "Arabs", then you are arguing against the existence of ALL these cultures, as separate and distinct cultures.  If there is no cultural or ethnic or national differentiation between Syria and Egypt and Jordan and Iraq and Lebanon and Iran and Saudia Arabia and all the others and Israel, because they are all "Arab", then you are arguing against the existence of ALL of these states.  Further, you are arguing that France can't exist, nor can Spain or Portugal or Belgium or Switzerland or Germany, because they are all just Europeans.  

The Jewish people originated in that territory, in that land.  There they developed and differentiated themselves from all other peoples -- developing their own language, religion, laws, myths, stories, history, customs, celebrations, holidays, and rituals.  Pretending they didn't, or pretending they don't exist, or pretending they don't "count" is ... well ... you know what it is.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 28, 2019)

member said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




That is obviously impossible.
ISIS could not possibly have created itself.
First of all, ISIS could never have existed if the US had not taken out Saddam.
Second is that the secular Sunni who formed ISIS had just been released from US POW camps, so had no weapons, money, jobs, or vehicles.
For ISIS to have all these weapons and Toyota trucks, someone had to be arming and supplying them.
If you think it was not Israel or the US, then who was it?


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## Rigby5 (Sep 28, 2019)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > but there is NO Jewish right to ownership at all.  NONE!
> ...



Wrong.
I am separately arguing both issues.

Jews have absolutely no legal right to any political control over Palestine at all, since Jews are almost entirely a minority of foreign illegal immigrants, and that any Jews were allowed to legally immigrate to Palestine on the promise they would never try to get involved rule or sovereignty.
Jews are not the natives  nor the majority, in Israel or Palestine/Israel.

Jews have almost no legal right to any land or property, because they did not actually purchase any significant amount of land, unlike the Palestinians, who have valid deeds, titles, bill of sales, etc.


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## Shusha (Sep 28, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Rigby5 said:
> ...




Sigh.  Yeah, same old same old.  

Jews have no right to self-determination.  Because ... reasons.  

Jews have no right to purchase property.  Because ... reasons.  

Jewish sovereignty is illegal because ... reasons.  

Jewish property rights are illegal because ... reasons.  

Boring.  As well as incorrect.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 28, 2019)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Those are Arab names, not Jewish names.
> ...



Wrong.
The whole point is that I am NOT arguing that there is no cultural or ethnic differentiation between Canaanites and Philistines and Phoenicians and Egyptians and Assyrians and Moabites and Midianites and Aramaeans, etc.
I am arguing that they are all very interesting, unique, valuable, and historically significant.
And they are not Hebrew.
We know when the Hebrew invasion occurred, around 1000 BC, and we know they were hated for their invasion and massacres, like as Jericho.  Otherwise the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Romans would not have so easily defeated them.  They had no allies, and we know they ruled only for a few hundred years, due to their unpopular brutality.

We know absolutely for sure that Hebrew tribes did NOT originate in the Land of Canaan, and have absolutely no history there before 1000 BC.

We know all the groups that did exist in the Land of Canaan, like the Canaanites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Moabites, Akkadians, Urites, Aramaeans, etc.  The Hebrew tribes were not among them.  The Hebrew tribes also are Arab, but they developed independently somewhere else.  

Likely it was the Sinai desert where they came from.

The only claim to any land ownership in Israel by Jews comes from an old book of mythology written by Jews.
That does not hold any water with me or any sane person.
And clearly even in the Jewish account of the Old Testament, the war crimes committed by Jews invalidate any possible claims.
To attempt to resurrect the ancient Hebrew dynasty is hideously corrupt.
It was not a good country that respected any kind of law and order we require these days.
To even admit one has any association to the barbarism, cruelty, and injustice of the Old Testament, is to condemn the one making the claim.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 28, 2019)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



Jews have all the right to self determination in the world, but they have to find some place where they can do that without violating the rights of the indigenous natives.
Jews are not indigenous natives to Palestine, so should have gone somewhere uninhabited, like Madagascar.

Jews have all the right in the world to purchase property, but the problem is they did not and still refuse to pay for anything.  They want it all for free, and they want to kill the rightful owners in order to take it.

Jewish sovereignty is illegal in Palestine,  not only because they are not indigenous natives, but because the indigenous native Palestinians earned their sovereignty by fighting with the Allies against the Ottoman empire.

Jewish property claims are invalid because they did not pay for almost any land.


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## rylah (Sep 28, 2019)

There's actually not a single nation in the world,
that has bought this land more times or at a higher price than the Jews.

And that's why Arabs and Turks refuse to open the archives.
They know they'll be left with their pants...including much of the foreign embassies in the Arabs world.

So go on big talk, why don't You open the archives?


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## Indeependent (Sep 29, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Rigby5 said:
> ...


Do you enjoy making a jackass out of yourself?
Try posting a fact every now and then.


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## Rigby5 (Sep 29, 2019)

rylah said:


> There's actually not a single nation in the world,
> that has bought this land more times or at a higher price than the Jews.
> 
> And that's why Arabs and Turks refuse to open the archives.
> ...



Liar.
Jews never bought any significant land in Palestine.
They invaded and murdered Canaanites originally around 1000 BC, and never bought any land in Palestine at all until around 1900, when Zionist cult bought some tiny properties.
The archives are open.
And they prove Palestinian land ownership, not Jewish land ownership.

Ottoman archives to help Palestinians reclaim lands

{...
*Ottoman archives to help Palestinians reclaim lands*
DAILY SABAH
ISTANBUL
Published23.06.201521:50
Palestinians entangled in lawsuits to claim ownership of properties grabbed by the state of Israel have found a new sidekick in their legal battle: The Ottomans or rather, the archives of the now-defunct empire, which once ruled present-day Israel, Palestine and much of the Middle East for centuries.

Turkey opened the Ottoman land registry archives to Palestinian litigants so that Israel "can't tell Palestinians this land is not yours," said Kudret Bülbül, the head of a Turkish agency overseeing the process.

Speaking to Anadolu Agency (AA), Bülbül, the head of the Turks Abroad and Related Communities Directorate of the Prime Ministry (YTB), said the archives provided evidence to the original land register. "Israel occasionally violates laws. It confiscated public and private properties in Palestine under various excuses, such as denying the existence of historical ownership of those properties by foundations or the existence of a former Palestinian settlement. The opening of the archives aims to prevent these claims. Under our project, land registers, sultans' decrees or historical documents proving the property ownership of Palestinians in Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories are being examined," he said. Bülbül added that they would translate the documents he defined as historical evidence into English, Arabic, French and other languages "so Palestinians can defend their cause before international bodies and the courts better," he said.

The YTB will scan the archives for all documents related to Palestine and hand over copies of requested documents to Palestinian litigants in relevant cases. The agency will also check the Ottoman archives in other countries for documents related to Palestine.

The agency will also support independent studies on Palestinian history and set up a library of historical documents.

The use of Ottoman archives to prove Palestinians' property claims was at the center of a lawsuit over the ownership of residences in an East Jerusalem neighborhood. Palestinian families facing eviction from the neighborhood were given access to Ottoman archives to prove that the area they live in belonged to Palestinian families. Several families were evicted from the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood in 2009 after the court ruled in favor of Jewish families who claimed they had title deeds dating back to Ottoman times, which showed the land was bought by Jews. Palestinians claimed the deeds were forged. Apart from East Jerusalem, Palestinians are engaged in legal disputes with Jewish settlers and the state of Israel for properties in the West Bank.

The Republic of Turkey strained its relations with Israel and adopted a pro-Palestinian stance following Israel's brutal offensives in Gaza and an attack on Turkish activists bringing aid to Gaza. The Turkish government enjoys good relations with the Palestinian Authority as well as the Hamas administration in Gaza.
...}


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## Rigby5 (Sep 29, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



The facts are well known, that Jews were allowed to immigrate to Palestine on the promise they have no claims or political ambitions for their immigration.
They clearly have no right to break off any of Palestine for a Jewish state, much less take all of it, as they seem inclined.

What facts do you want?
Like the Treaty of San Remo, the Treaty of Sevres, or anything else that establishes Palestine and not Israel?


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## Shusha (Sep 29, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> The Hebrew tribes also are Arab, but they developed independently somewhere else.
> 
> We know absolutely for sure that Hebrew tribes did NOT originate in the Land of Canaan, and have absolutely no history there before 1000 BC.
> 
> We know when the Hebrew invasion occurred, around 1000 BC



Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?  

You agree that the Jewish people are also "Arab", that term being used by you to mean broadly Middle Eastern.  The Jewish people, then, are part of the "Arab group of peoples" (according to your definition).  

You agree that the Jewish people, like all sub-cultures of "Arabs", are 





> very interesting, unique, valuable, and historically significant



Yet, somehow, the Jewish people "developed independently somewhere else" -- meaning OUTSIDE your self-proclaimed grouping of "Arab people".

Dude, you can not have it both ways.  Either the Jewish people are part of the broader set of "Arab peoples" (and entitled to all the rights and privileges you grant to all other "Arab peoples" (including indigeneity, self-determination and sovereignty) OR the Jewish people developed "independently somewhere else" and are therefore NOT part of the broader set of "Arab peoples".

You can't have it both ways.  That is the definition of double standards.


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## Shusha (Sep 29, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> We know when the Hebrew invasion occurred, around 1000 BC...
> 
> We know absolutely for sure that Hebrew tribes did NOT originate in the Land of Canaan, and have absolutely no history there before 1000 BC.
> 
> The Hebrew tribes also are Arab, but they developed independently somewhere else.



We know this HOW, exactly?!

Site your sources.


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## Shusha (Sep 29, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Jews have all the right to self determination in the world, but they have to find some place where they can do that without violating the rights of the indigenous natives.



Sounds like you are saying that peoples have the rights to self-determination on the territories where they are indigenous.  Well done.  The UN agrees.  As do I.  And any moral person.  

Tell me, what is the indigenous territory of the Jewish people?


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## 22lcidw (Sep 29, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Rigby5 said:
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The argument is moot because Israel is there and they have nuclear weapons. If the United States were to become a minor nation in the near future, it may get interesting in that region though.


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## Indeependent (Sep 29, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Rigby5 said:
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Jews paid lots of money to Arabs for land and the Arabs were happy to take it.
You are an idiot and have no fans here.


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## Indeependent (Sep 29, 2019)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > We know when the Hebrew invasion occurred, around 1000 BC...
> ...


Rigby and Arab sites.


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## member (Sep 29, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> member said:
> 
> 
> > Rigby5 said:
> ...








*"If you think it was not Israel or the US, then who was it?"*

people have been blaming everything from the ice age to natural disasters to the ills of allll societies....and _*you and your:*_ *"ISIS could never have existed if the US[etc]...."* on: 




 








*
*
*

*
we've never met.  

 what do i know ?

this ..."way of thinking" - it's disturbing... 

 a *red* [false] flag.  sorry....

 don't mean to hurt your "feelings."  i can't put it as eloquently as.....some philosopher or political analyst but...this is a twisted, scary outlook.  before isis/alQu, plenty of savage "islamic" terrorist groups  operating the same way, with the-same mindset, just different man-bodies now] -- _sorry nice guys_.........one of my thoughts about you saying this is:



 MAN....he must fucking HATE 

 the u.s and israel more than....................these terrorist killing machines.


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## Roudy (Oct 2, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...


The name Palestine is a European name that was used by the Euopeans only.  The Ottoman's called it "southern Syria". The name Palestinian was used only in reference to the Jews of the region only. Look it up.


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## member (Oct 12, 2019)

Roudy said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




*"The name Palestine is a European name that was used by the Euopeans only.."
*



​





 . . . it _ain't_ european sounding anymore.....









​


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## Mindful (Oct 24, 2019)

Roudy said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Roudy; here is an informative breakdown of facts and figures  concerning the topic:

Interesting how a claim to the land was never made so long as Jordan held control of it, as soon as Israel expelled the Jordanians who had illegally occupied the land, the Arabs living in the land then proceeded to quickly change their charter to now make claims to this land. The question has to be, how can a historic claim change like this? Or could this be a lie?

“There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.” Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council

Can a people that never held the sovereignty of land have the sovereignty taken from them? Remember, in any court of law, if you claim something was stole you have show ownership before you can accuse. This then begs the question, “How can someone claim theft of land they never held any sovereignty over?”

Did Israel Steal The Ancestral Home of the Palestinians? Part 3


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## longknife (Oct 25, 2019)

*Explaining Turkey*

The article actually starts by discussing President Trump as an unconventional leader. But then, it goes into a couple of examples that are most interesting.

Sweden stubbornly keeping to driving on the left while Norway, Finland, and Denmark drove on the right and how the changeover went about.

But the crux comes when it recalls that Turkey actually sided with Germany during WWII. And it discusses Mustafa Keman, known as “Ataturk,” or “Father of the Turks.”

_Ataturk denounced the prior "Young Turks" and went on a rampage of reform. He built hundreds of schools all across Turkey and made elementary education mandatory. Women were forbidden to wear the veil. Ataturk hammered Turkey into a modern secular European republic (and that includes giving women the right to vote and all kinds of such modernization)._

(The Shah of Iran tried the same thing but got screwed by Jimmy Carter and the CIA)

snip

_here comes the zinger. Ataturk was wise enough to know that he could not achieve his desired reforms unless he completely trashed the Arabic alphabet and the ancient Ottoman alphabet and put in their place the modernized Latin alphabet in which the Turkish language is written today._

_There's no way to force you to do this, but I really wish you would take time out now to imagine what life would be like if, all of a sudden, every single word in your life had to be in an alphabet other than the ones you learned as a very young child. Imagine if every single book, beginning with the Bible, the Torah and the Quran, had to be reprinted with Ataturk's new alphabet! Not to mention newspapers, magazines and best-sellers of every kind. And, just as when Sweden made its traffic shift, every road sign in the country had to be changed!_

What would you do if suddenly it was decided that the USA would no longer use the Latin alphabet and everything was suddenly changed to something else?

More about this @ Trump is an unconventional leader? How 'bout this guy? - WND


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## member (Oct 26, 2019)

22lcidw said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...







how'about a little *"moot"*-beer for you ?





_*"If the United States were to become a minor nation in the near future, it may get interesting in that region though..."*_






a snack with that beer ?


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## member (Oct 26, 2019)

Rigby5 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Rigby5 said:
> ...









*"Wrong."*

"The whole point is that I am NOT arguing that there is no cultural or ethnic differentiation between Canaanites and Philistines and Phoenicians and Egyptians and Assyrians and Moabites and Midianites and Aramaeans, etc.  -- I am arguing that they are all very interesting, unique, valuable, and historically significant.  And they are not Hebrew.  We know when the Hebrew invasion occurred, around 1000 BC, and we know they were hated for their invasion and massacres, like as Jericho.  Otherwise the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Romans would not have so easily defeated them.  They had no allies, and we know they ruled only for a few hundred years, due to their unpopular brutality.  We know absolutely for sure that Hebrew tribes did NOT originate in the Land of Canaan, and have absolutely no history there before 1000 BC.  We know all the groups that did exist in the Land of Canaan, like the Canaanites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Moabites, Akkadians, Urites, Aramaeans, etc.  The Hebrew tribes were not among them.  The Hebrew tribes also are Arab, but they developed independently somewhere else.  Likely it was the Sinai desert where they came from.  The only claim to any land ownership in Israel by Jews comes from an old book of mythology written by Jews.  That does not hold any water with me or any sane person.  And clearly even in the Jewish account of the Old Testament, the war crimes committed by Jews invalidate any possible claims.  To attempt to resurrect the ancient Hebrew dynasty is hideously corrupt.  It was not a good country that respected any kind of law and order we require these days.  To even admit one has any association to the barbarism, cruelty, and injustice of the Old Testament, is to condemn the one making the claim."

_*". . . It was not a good country that respected any kind of law and order we require these days."*_







_ok. whatever you say...._


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## eagle1462010 (Oct 26, 2019)




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## eagle1462010 (Oct 26, 2019)

France and Britain owned the place after WWI, leaving the final land of the Ottomans in present day Turkey.

Who then fought Greece and won, as Greece attacked them for revenge basically.

At the time of WWI none of these countries now in the Middle East existed.  Only provinces of the Ottoman Empire were left behind.  When the French and British left the remnants fought each other for more land and control to give us what we have today.

The Ottomans were a brutal lot...............who used the Kurds to slaughter the Armenian Christians in the deserts of present day Turkey.  Telling the Kurds of the time that Allah would reward them for doing so...........Known as the Armenian Genocide............

The Russo Turk War was a lead up to this part of it.  The Armenians fought with the Russians..........and were hated by the Ottomans........The Genocide was revenge.


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## AEWHistory (May 21, 2020)

Except that there is a 100% chance that this is incorrect.  There is no region on Earth where the state, church, waqf, or other public organization doesn’t own land.  This chart likely shows 0% of that land.*  So the only thing this chart indicates is the ratio of PRIVATE land ownership between Jews and non-Jews.  Since public lands were always the majority of lands in Israel/Palestine, your statistic is not accurate.

Moreover, this splits between Jews and non-Jews without splitting more finely.  I suspect that there is a large Christian and Druze component to this land ownership with the fellahin often reduced to being renters.  So again, land ownership showed things like who controlled the land, but stop using these statistics to say something that they don’t.

*-perhaps waqf lands are included in the Arab land ownership, perhaps not.  Either way, this is at the heart of why these statistics are wildly misleading.




montelatici said:


> FACT:View attachment 32891 ARABS owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  All the deflection, tap dancing, whining, coloring book maps  and stamping of feet won't change the facts contained in the Survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations prior to partition:


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## Rigby5 (May 21, 2020)

eagle1462010 said:


>



That is a lie.
In 1920, the population of Palestine was less than 5% Jewish and they owned even less of the land.
Almost all the Jews in Israel came from illegal immigration in the 1940s or later.
And they simply killed the Arab land owners or chased them out to refugee camps.


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## Rigby5 (May 21, 2020)

eagle1462010 said:


> France and Britain owned the place after WWI, leaving the final land of the Ottomans in present day Turkey.
> 
> Who then fought Greece and won, as Greece attacked them for revenge basically.
> 
> ...



Not quite right.

The French and British won WWI and defeated the Ottoman Empire, but they had promised the Palestinians, Syrians, and Jordanians independence in exchange for helping beat the Ottoman Empire.
So France and Britain never owned any land in the Mideast.
The French Mandate for Syria and the British Mandate for Palestine were protectorates for the day they could be independent and rule themselves.

All the people in the Mideast had their small areas and these groupings like Palestine, Syria, and Jordan were essentially just federations of countries that had always existed.
The only country that did not exist then was Israel, Judea or Samaria.
That is because they had not existed in thousands of years, and even back when they did exist, they were temporary invaders who only lasted a few hundred years.


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## Rigby5 (May 21, 2020)

AEWHistory said:


> Except that there is a 100% chance that this is incorrect.  There is no region on Earth where the state, church, waqf, or other public organization doesn’t own land.  This chart likely shows 0% of that land.*  So the only thing this chart indicates is the ratio of PRIVATE land ownership between Jews and non-Jews.  Since public lands were always the majority of lands in Israel/Palestine, your statistic is not accurate.
> 
> Moreover, this splits between Jews and non-Jews without splitting more finely.  I suspect that there is a large Christian and Druze component to this land ownership with the fellahin often reduced to being renters.  So again, land ownership showed things like who controlled the land, but stop using these statistics to say something that they don’t.
> 
> ...



Except it is untrue that almost all the land was not owned by Moslem Arabs.

Less than 5%v of the population of Palestine was ever Jewish, and since they were living almost exclusively in the Old Quarter of Jerusalem, they not only rented, but owned no agricultural enterprises or land hardly at all.
It was not until the "back to the land" movement of Theodor Hertzl around 1896 that there was any real Jewish land ownership at all, and that was still tiny, never amounting to even 5% of Palestine by 1948,

Sure there was public land, but it was owned by tribes and villages, for shared grazing rights, and Jews took no part in that with any significance.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

There wasn’t any political entity named palestine during the Ottoman Empire. Waves of foreigners also flooded the area during the Ottoman period, including Albanians, Bosnians, and Circassians. A common surname is Bushnaq, referring to Bosnia. During the subsequent British Mandate, Arabs flooded into the area, in response to improving economic opportunities created by Jews.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

MJB12741 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".
> ...



Um, the Western Wall was built 700+ years BEFORE Aqsa mosque. Jews lived in Jerusalem thousands of years before Muslims even existed. D’oh.

Relief from the Arch of Titus, showing The Spoils of Jerusalem being brought into Rome (video) | Khan Academy


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## eagle1462010 (May 22, 2020)

Rigby5 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > France and Britain owned the place after WWI, leaving the final land of the Ottomans in present day Turkey.
> ...


Wars always decide the owner...........always have and always will.


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## Mindful (May 22, 2020)

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

Mindful said:


> Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)



There wasn‘t a political entity “palestine“ in the Ottoman Empire. The area was divided and subdivided over the years into different districts, such as Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, and Safed.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



You are just lying.
When someone says Israel has no right to exist that does NOT involve "self determination" because Israeli Jews are not FROM the Mideast but mostly Russia and Poland.
And it is a like to claim "self determination" allows a country to force one single religion on all of its citizens.
Jews are not even a majority in Israel, if you allow the original owners to return to their properties.
The fact Jews did NOT purchase properties, but stole them instead, has NOTHING at all to do with whether or not Jews are allowed to buy properties.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > The Hebrew tribes also are Arab, but they developed independently somewhere else.
> ...



You simply do not know history.
Hebrew are originally an Arab culture and speak an Arab dialect, but the eastern Jews are not.
Their native language is Yiddish, which is Germanic, and their foods, clothing, and other cultural habits are totally wrong for the Mideast.
In fact, they have no connection to the Mideast at all, and never even purchased the land they occupy in the Mideast, but instead stole it through murder and intimidation.

If you can not distinguish between ancient Hebrew and modern Israeli Jews, then there is no hope for you.
But even ancient Hebrew clearly had not right to the Land of Canaan.
They came by way of Egypt, likely from the Sinai, and massacred Canaanites, like at Jericho, in order to steal land.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > We know when the Hebrew invasion occurred, around 1000 BC...
> ...



That is silly.
We don't know the history of where the Hebrew tribes came from because they were illiterate and left no mark on history.
It was not until they spent 400 years in Egypt that they learned how to read or write.
So we will never know where they came from.
But we do know it was NOT the Land of Canaan because there is no trace of them there, and there also was no drought there which could have caused them to want to go to Egypt.
Since they did go to Egypt, most likely they were living in the Sinai.
That is close to Egypt, so it makes the most sense.
It fits with the fact they were sheep herders mostly.
And the Sinai is also where they went after they left Egypt, so likely was their previous home.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Jews have all the right to self determination in the world, but they have to find some place where they can do that without violating the rights of the indigenous natives.
> ...



The indigenous territory of the Russian Jewish people is Russia.
The indigenous territory of the German Jewish people is Germany,
Etc.

There is no trace of what or where the original Jewish culture and location was, nor would it matter since modern Jews would not fit in there at all, nor would they want to,
The Old Testament is horrific and to never be emulated by anyone ever again,

And the Land of Canaan most certainly is NOT where the Hebrew tribes came from or lived for any significant amount of time.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

22lcidw said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...



The argument is NOT moot because the majority is still 12 million Moslem Palestinians and not the 6 million Jewish Israelis,  Nor can Israel exist without massive aid annual aid from the US,
It is a totally fake country created and artificially supplied by the US.
It is not stable or able to survive on its own.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Rigby5 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



That is just a lie.
No Arab sold any land to Jews because it was illegal.
Some Jews did send money to Turkish frauds, but that had no legal standing.
And the amount of land purchased by Jews in Palestine was miniscule, less than 5%, by all records and census information.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

member said:


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That is silly.
There was no armed marauders like ISIS ever before the US invaded Iraq and suddenly let thousands of Sunni out of prison.  
The connection is obvious.
It should be easy to trace those hundreds of brand new Toyotas they were given.
The fact no one has or been willing to trace the source of these Toyotas proves their purchase is being suppressed from high places.

The people in ISIS obviously never were involved in any combat before,
The were Iraqi bureaucrats before the US invasion of Iraq.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Roudy said:


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That is a stupid lie.
The word Palestine refers to the coast of the Land of Canaan way back in ancient Greek and Egyptian references.
Clearly it is where the Philistines got their name, way before the Hebrew invasion around 1000 BC.
There were no Jews in Palestine before this, and the Jews almost never lived there, being kicked out by the Assyrian, Babylonians, Romans, and Crusaders.
Palestinian NEVER referred to Jews.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Mindful said:


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That is a stupid lie.
The British Mandate for Palestine was etablished in 1920 at the Treaty of Sevres, in order to reward the Palestinians for their help in WWI.
The Palestinians have always existed, even thought they actually are a region of smaller tribes like the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Urites, Amorites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Nabatians, etc.
There obvious are differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, but they deliberately joined into the federation of Palestine because of their similar past heritage and future goals.

Jordan NEVER laid any claim to any part of Palestine.
They simply helped administer and defend it after Israel tried to illegal invade it.
The current occupation of Jerusalem by Israel is also still totally illegal.

Palestinians always has the legal right to sovereignty due to the fact of the rights of the indigenous.
The fact they were illegally prevented sovereignty by the invading Ottoman Empire means nothing.
The British owed them sovereignty and promised it in return for help in WWI.

And Jews have no right to any sovereignty in Israel because they are not native, neither nor now 3000 years ago when they first tried to take over.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

longknife said:


> *Explaining Turkey*
> 
> The article actually starts by discussing President Trump as an unconventional leader. But then, it goes into a couple of examples that are most interesting.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but it is important to point out it was only WWI when Turkey sided with Germany.
In WWII, Turkey remained neutral until near the end, when they joined the Allies.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Mindful said:


> Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)



Totally wrong.
First of all there was ALWAYS a region known as Palestine, going back to around 5000 BC.
Second is that the British did not invade Palestine, but liberated it with the help of a local rebellion against the Ottoman Empire.
Third is that when the Palestinians helped the British they did so with the assurances of independence and sovereignty, which was formalized into law by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
So that is when the independent country of Palestine was legally recognized and can not be altered by invasion by Zionists.
Jordan and Egypt never took over but only acted as protectors and administrators.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)
> ...



That is true, but there was a region known as Palestine from over 7000 years ago, and clearly WWI established Palestine as in independent country.


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## Mindful (May 22, 2020)

Rigby5 said:


> Mindful said:
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> 
> > Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)
> ...



The British were always Arabists.

Peter O‘Toole can attest to that.


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## Indeependent (May 22, 2020)

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Link?


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## Indeependent (May 22, 2020)

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Too bad none of the Arab nations agree with you.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


> There wasn’t any political entity named palestine during the Ottoman Empire. Waves of foreigners also flooded the area during the Ottoman period, including Albanians, Bosnians, and Circassians. A common surname is Bushnaq, referring to Bosnia. During the subsequent British Mandate, Arabs flooded into the area, in response to improving economic opportunities created by Jews.



That is a lie.
There was almost no relocations during the Ottoman Empire.
First of all it is against the native Moslem traditions to not stay where the bones of your ancestors are buried.
The British conduced annual census data and it shows no massive migrations in or out EXCEPT for Jewish immigration after 1930 or so.
The Arabs never moved.
There was no new economic opportunities, and certainly not created by Jews, who were recent immigrants and empty handed.  They did not even own any land.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Never been a region known as palestine “over 7,000 years ago.” Palestine is a modern English word.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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That is foolish.
The western wall is a foundation of an ancient temple to Baal, and has no indications of Hebrew heritage.
It is megolith construction, which Jews NEVER did.  In fact, it could only have been Canaanite construction since not even Romans used stones that large.

Of course Islam did not exist before 640 or so, but it clearly was of Arab construction and not Hebrew or Jewish.
The Land of Canaan goes back to 8000 BC.
The Hebrew invasion by Egyptian refugees did not happen until around 1000 BC.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Indeependent said:


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There is no Arab nation that disagrees the British Mandate for Palestine was not created legally at the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.  All the local Arab nations were at the conference and agreed to the treaty.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

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Foolish.
If that were so, then where did the Philistines get their name?


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

Rigby5 said:


> MartyNYC said:
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> 
> > There wasn’t any political entity named palestine during the Ottoman Empire. Waves of foreigners also flooded the area during the Ottoman period, including Albanians, Bosnians, and Circassians. A common surname is Bushnaq, referring to Bosnia. During the subsequent British Mandate, Arabs flooded into the area, in response to improving economic opportunities created by Jews.
> ...



You’re uninformed. There was no political entity “palestine” in the Ottoman Empire, during which time the area was divided into districts of Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, Safed. Palestine is an English word, first used politically by Britain which named the British Mandate “palestine.”

Waves of Algerians, Bosnians, Circassians during the Ottoman period is well-documented. Mehmed Ali of Egypt imported vast numbers of people deployed in his army. Churchill spoke of the Arabs flooding into British palestine during the Mandate.

Now, you know.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Who’s foolish? Philistine is an English word. Philistines were a tribe of Sea Peoples from the Greek world, who didn’t identify as Philistines. Philistines raided Egypt around 1177 BCE—Is that over 7,000 years ago? Do the math, Einstein.


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## Mindful (May 22, 2020)

Rigby5 said:


> MartyNYC said:
> 
> 
> > There wasn’t any political entity named palestine during the Ottoman Empire. Waves of foreigners also flooded the area during the Ottoman period, including Albanians, Bosnians, and Circassians. A common surname is Bushnaq, referring to Bosnia. During the subsequent British Mandate, Arabs flooded into the area, in response to improving economic opportunities created by Jews.
> ...



How many times have we been here before?


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

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You mean T.E. Lawrence I assume?

And there simply were almost no Jews in Palestine in 1916.

{...

 *Census Group**Population*​*Percentage*​ Muslim403,795​85.5​ Christian43,659​9.2​ Jewish15,001​3.2​
...}








						Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948
					






					www.cjpme.org
				





​


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## Mindful (May 22, 2020)

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I‘ve heard it all before.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

Roudy said:


> Can one of you bullshit propagandists show us a country or nation of "Arab Palestine" that existed in the last 700 years?
> 
> Who were its rulers, it's capital, currency, distinct language, etc. ?
> 
> Palestine is an invention circa 1967 after the Arabs got their asses kicked and decided to hijack an identity they never had.




Arab commentator acknowledges: “When the State of Israel was established in 1948, there was no state called ‘palestine’”

Kuwaiti Writer Abdullah Al-Hadlaq: Israel Is a Legitimate State, Not an Occupier; There Was No Palestine; I Support Israel-Gulf-U.S. Alliance to Annihilate Hizbullah


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## Tom Paine 1949 (May 22, 2020)

Land ownership under Ottoman rule evolved over time and place. In general there were five recognized legal forms of land ownership after 1858 reforms. In the Palestine area village lands and family/clan land were distinct before the British arrived. The main changes occurred not so much when the British arrived, but when large numbers of Jews arrived buying up land. The “Jewish Agency” oversaw the establishment of about 1,000 towns and villages. The new Jewish state later seized much valuable land, legally “re-categorized” traditional village land, and of course drove many Arabs out in 1948, never allowing them to return. Never allowing old land claims to be “registered” and many other legal tricks were used to extend Jewish ownership and restrict Arab rights.

On Ottoman land policies: Ottoman Land Code of 1858 - Wikipedia


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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British Mandate was awarded to Britain by the League of Nations at the San Remo Convention in 1920. Britain submitted their terms for the Mandate, nicknamed “palestine,” in 1922, which went into effect in 1923.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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You have a perfect record: 100% wrong! LOL

Palestine is a modern English word. There is no reference to any place “palestine” in Egyptian sources, and ancient Greeks called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews. Romans did so, as well. Persians called the country Yehud, Aramaic for Judah.


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## Indeependent (May 22, 2020)

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Yawn...
1920...what a schmuck you are.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

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So then you must know that Israel has no justification to exist, and was forcibly made by the US, against the rights of the inhabitants of the Mideast?


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## Mindful (May 22, 2020)

Indeependent said:


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Tedious, isn’t it?


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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That is a total lie.
There was no Israel at all in 1916, Palestine was always the accepted name for the region, and the Treaty of San Remo and the Treaty of Sevres established Palestine as the only legal entity in the region.
There is no legal Israel, and likely never was one.
The ancient Israel of biblical times was a short lived invasion that was quickly defeated and disappeared.
It left no trace.


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## Mindful (May 22, 2020)

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We’ve heard it all before.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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Liar.
Everyone has always acknowledged and recorded that the word Palestine is an ancient reference often used by everyone.









						Timeline of the name Palestine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



{...
This article presents a *list of notable historical references to the name Palestine* as a place name in the Middle East throughout the history of the region, including its cognates such as "Filastin" and "Palaestina."

The term "Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as _P-r-s-t_) is found in five inscriptions referring to a neighboring people or land starting from circa 1150 BC during the Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt. The first known mention is at the temple at Medinet Habu which refers to the Peleset among those who fought with Egypt in Ramesses III's reign,[2][3] and the last known is 300 years later on Padiiset's Statue. The Assyrians called the same region "Palashtu/Palastu" or "Pilistu," beginning with Adad-nirari III in the Nimrud Slab in c. 800 BC through to an Esarhaddon treaty more than a century later.[4][5] Neither the Egyptian nor the Assyrian sources provided clear regional boundaries for the term.[6]

The first appearance of the term "Palestine" was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_" between Phoenicia and Egypt in _The Histories_.[7][8][9] Herodotus applied the term to both the coastal and the inland regions such as the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[10][11][12][13] Later Greek writers such as Aristotle, Polemon and Pausanias also used the word, which was followed by Roman writers such as Ovid, Tibullus, Pomponius Mela, Pliny the Elder, Dio Chrysostom, Statius, Plutarch as well as Roman Judean writers Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.[14] The word is not found on any Hellenistic coin or inscription, and is first known in official use in the early second century AD.[15] It has been contended that in the first century authors still associated the term with the southern coastal region.[16][17]
...}

The proper word for Jews is Hebrew, as they were not called Jews until after invading and living in the long pre-existing Canaanite city Jerusalem.
Not only did no one consider that area Jewish, but it is still usually called the Land of Canaan, the Levant, or Palestine.  Judea is just a small city, just as Samaria and Israel were.
The Romans did prop up a Jewish fantasy for a while, but not very long, and everyone knows it was fake.
Even Herod was actually a Roman convert, and not really Jewish.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Can one of you bullshit propagandists show us a country or nation of "Arab Palestine" that existed in the last 700 years?
> ...



False.
Palestine was officially created and recognized by the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres, in 1920.
That can never change and is recorded history.
What would a Kuwaiti know about Palestine, nor would anyone believe a Kuwaite writer when the emir had all the good journalist killed.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Do you see “palestine” on this map of the Ottoman Empire, year 1900?


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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Yes, the map is labeled "Palestine". but you have cut off the label at the top.
Here is what a typical Ottoman Empire map of Palestine looks like.
Note the label "Palestine" at the top.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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You’re not very good at this: Nowhere in the map is there an administrative unit named “palestine.” No such place existed.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Um, Syria also did not exist in 1915–Syria was created by France after World War 1, which ended in 1918. D’oh!


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## Indeependent (May 22, 2020)

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I suggest you study inter-Arab wars if the use of force upsets you.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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That is the whole point.
It is the REGION that was always called Palestine, and it was not until 1920 that it was made into an independent country, as a federation of the little tribal areas inside of it.
That is the way countries are always formed.
German was 16 separate states until confederation.
{... Prussia and the other *states* in Northern and Central *Germany* united as a *federal state*, the North *German Federation*, on July 1, 1867  ...}
There was no Germany before that, just the name of the region.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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That is silly because Syria is ancient.
{...
The modern name of Syria is claimed by some scholars to have derived from Herodotus’ habit of referring to the whole of Mesopotamia as 'Assyria' and, after the Assyrian Empire fell in 612 BCE, the western part continued to be called 'Assyria' until after the Seleucid Empire when it became known as 'Syria'. This theory has been contested by the claim that the name comes from Hebrew, and the people of the land were referred to as 'Siryons' by the Hebrews because of their soldiers' metal armor ('_siryon_' meaning armor, specifically chain mail, in Hebrew). There is also the theory that 'Syria' derives from the Siddonian name for Mount Hermon - 'Siryon' – which separated the regions of northern Eber Nari and southern Phoenicia (modern Lebanon, which Sidon was a part of), and it has also been suggested that the name comes from the Sumerian, 'Saria' which was their name for Mount Hermon. As the designations 'Siryon' and 'Saria' would not have been known to Herodotus, and as his _Histories_ had such an enormous impact on later writers in antiquity, it is most likely that the modern name 'Syria' derives from 'Assyria' (which comes from the Akkadian 'Ashur' and designated the Assyrian’s chief deity) and not from the Hebrew, Siddonian, or Sumerian words. 
...}

Just look at the title on the map.
It obviously is real, untouched up, and validates the common names used for the regions.
The fact the Ottoman empire held both regions does not make these regions irrelevant.


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## Indeependent (May 22, 2020)

Rigby5 said:


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The Romans called Israel “Palestine” after they conquered it.
If you don’t know this from a simple Google search then you are an idiot.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Palestine is a European name, like Terra Sancta. It wasn‘t a Middle Eastern name. It’s an English word, anglicized from the Roman name “palaestina” imposed on Jews, referring to Jews’ Philistine foes from the Greek world.

Neither the map I posted nor the map you posted has a political entity named “palestine.” It didn’t exist in the Middle East until Britain nicknamed the Mandate “palestine“ which ceased to exist with Israeli statehood.

Renowned Middle East historian Bernard Lewis further explains...


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Indeependent said:


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That is silly because inter-Arab wars are extremely rare.
There was a war between Iraq and Iran in 1979, but it was started by the urging of the US, and the Iranians are not Arab,  but Persian.
If you go back before WWI, the whole area was controlled by the Ottoman Empire, which also it not Arabs.
If you go  back before that, it was the Moghuls, who controlled and they also are not Arab.
Etc.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

Indeependent said:


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Romans originally called Israel “Judaea” signifying land of the Jews. Palaestina was a later name.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 22, 2020)

montelatici said:


> FACT:View attachment 32891 ARABS owned more than 90% of the land prior to partition.  All the deflection, tap dancing, whining, coloring book maps  and stamping of feet won't change the facts contained in the Survey of Palestine commissioned by the United Nations prior to partition:


Your chart does not show 90 percent it shows less then 2/3rds on taxes perhaps you can explain why if Arabs had 90 percent of the land they paid only a little less then twice as much as Jews in taxes?


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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As historian Bernard Lewis explains, Syria was a new political entity created after WW1 and dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.


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## Shusha (May 22, 2020)

Rigby5

Wow.  Just wow.  I have never witnessed anyone work so hard at erasing the Jewish people.  The level of your commitment to this erasure is simply astonishing. 

I am absolutely fascinated to hear that the Jewish/Hebrew people simply don't exist and that there is no evidence at all of them through any time in history.  Simply fascinating.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

Shusha said:


> Rigby5
> 
> Wow.  Just wow.  I have never witnessed anyone work so hard at erasing the Jewish people.  The level of your commitment to this erasure is simply astonishing.
> 
> ...



Jesus, Jesus’s family, 12 Apostles, including Peter, Paul, and Jesus’s followers weren’t really Jews—They were Hindus!


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Indeependent said:


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Totally wrong.
Israel had been defeated and destroyed many times, such as by the Assyrians and Babylonians.
{...
*cca. 720 BCE *– Kingdom of Israel conquered by Neo-Assyrian Empire. Local population deported, becoming the ten lost tribes, and the region is repopulated from other provinces of the Assyrian Empire. 
...}
{...

*609 BCE *– After the Battle of Megiddo (609 BC ) the region becomes part of the Empire of the Twenty-sixth dynasty of Egypt.[_citation needed_]
*605 BCE *– The region of the Kingdom of Judah returns to Babylonian control after the Battle of Carchemish in which Crown Prince Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon defeated the army of Necho II of Egypt
...
*6th century BCE*
*16 March 597 BCE *– Babylonians capture Jerusalem following a siege, replace Jehoiachin with Zedekiah as king.[_citation needed_]
*597 BCE *– Exile of prominent Jews (including Ezekiel) to Babylonia.[_citation needed_]
*587 BCE *– Jerusalem falls to the Babylonians, ending the Kingdom of Judah. The conquerors destroy the Jewish Temple of Jerusalem and exile some of the land's inhabitants.[_citation needed_]
*538 BCE *– After Cyrus the Great conquered the Babylonian Empire a year earlier, he declared that the Israelites are allowed to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the Temple.

...
*4th century BCE*

*332 BCE *– Alexander the Great conquered the region from the Persian Empire.[_citation needed_]
*301 BCE *– Ptolemy I Soter conquered the region from the heirs of Alexander the Great.[_citation needed_]
*3rd century BCE*

*22 June 217 BCE *– Egyptian native hoplites under Ptolemy IV crushes the Seleucid army under Antiochus III at Raphia near Gaza. The realization of their military importance leads to demands by native Egyptians for greater privileges and so to the development of racial difficulties which will weaken the Ptolemy dynasty in the future.[_citation needed_]
*200 BCE *– Antiochus III the Great from the Seleucid dynasty conquered the region from the Ptolemaic dynasty.
*2nd century BCE*

*198 BCE *– The Battle of Panium is fought between Seleucid forces led by Antiochus III and Ptolemaic forces led by Scopas of Aetolia. The Seleucids win the battle which allows Antiochus III to obtain entire possession of the region of Syria Palaestina and Coele-Syria from King Ptolemy V of Egypt.[_citation needed_]
*167–160 BCE *– Maccabean Revolt: Jewish revolt against the Seleucid Empire.[_citation needed_]
*160–63 BCE *– The semi-autonomous rule of the Hasmoneans
...

*63 BCE *– Rome sends Pompey the Great and his forces to Judea to intervene in the civil war between the two religious sects who were fighting each other for control over the whole kingdom.[_citation needed_]
*63 BCE *– Pompey the Great conquers Jerusalem during Yom Kippur after another Siege of Jerusalem and as a result brings about the end of the Hasmonean Kingdom and incorporates Judea into the Roman Republic. During the battle over Jerusalem the Roman troops kill about 12,000 Jews including many priests at the temple compound.
*63 BCE *– King Judah Aristobulus II is removed from power, while his brother John Hyrcanus II is reappointed king (ethnarch) under Roman suzerainty and high priest.[_citation needed_]
...
*40 BCE *– the Parthians invade Judea, seize Jerusalem and appoint Antigonus II Mattathias King of Judea.
*37 BCE *– Herod the Great seizes back power in Judea with the help of the Romans and executes Antigonus II Mattathias.
...
*66–73 *– The First Jewish–Roman War occurs, the first uprising of Jews of the Iudaea province against the rule of the Roman Empire. The upraising fails and leads to destruction of the Jewish Temple and the conquest of Masada.
*70 *– First Jewish–Roman War: The Roman Empire conquer Jerusalem and destroy the Second Jewish Temple. Jews are banned from their city by the Roman conqueror.

...
*132–135 AD* – The Bar Kokhba revolt takes place, the third major rebellion by the Jews of Iudaea Province against the rule of the Roman Empire. After the rebellion failed emperor Hadrian changed the name of the province from Iudaea to "Syria Palaestina" in order to complete the dissociation between the Jewish rebels to the region.
...}
The Romans invaded Palestine when the Jews were no longer in power at all, and restored them to power as puppets.  For example, Herod was crowned king of the Jews, but was actually a Roman who simply converted so that he could rule.
And after the Bar Kokhba revolt , the Jews were totally eliminated from Palestine.  
They went to what is now Saudi Arabia, and later helped Mohammad rise to power there.

If you are claiming there was a long standing Jewish kingdom on history, you would be wrong.
There was only a very fleeting dynasty that the Romans took advantage of to temporarily restore.
Jewish history is fairly insignificant really.
Jews did much better when they were not in charge, and instead concentrated on technological advancements instead of just killing people.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Palestine never existed. Get over it.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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The name Palestine is NOT even remotely Roman or modern, but ancient and is referenced by Egyptians and Greeks before 2000 BC.

Sure it is not referenced as a country as much as a region, but it also does come from the names of specific countries in the Land of Canaan, like Filestia and Philistina.

And while your quoted material is correct that the region Palestine was to be liberated as an independent country in return for Arab help against the Ottoman Empire, there was no Israel or even a significant Jewish presence in Palestine at the time.

So clearly then the immigration of European Jews from 1930 onward, as well as the UN dividing Palestine into 55% Israel, was totally illegal.  It is in violation of the Treaties of San Remo and Sevres,
And even if one were to recognize Israeli statehood, that would not at all alter the previous and superior claim of Palestine to the other 45% of the Palestine of the British Mandate for Palestine.
The UN would have no right or authority to dissolve the previous claim.
Nor did it.
The UN intended for a 2 state solution, which Israel is in violation of.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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That is just a lie.
The Treaties of San Remo and Sevres created Palestine as in independent state, that no one can change.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

Shusha said:


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So prove where the Hebrew lived before they went to Egypt for 400 years?
It was not the Land of Canaan, not only because there is no trace of them there, but there also was no drought and no reason for anyone from the Land of Canaan to go to Egypt.


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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The fact the Romans installed some Jewish puppets, does not mean they have any legitimate claims or were near to any sort of majority.  For example, if there were to many Jews in Palestine at the time, then why did the Roman Herod had to convert to Judaism in order to have a Jewish leader?
If Jews were a large or powerful group, they never would have accepted a convert like Herod as their leader.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

Rigby5 said:


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Palestine is not referenced in Egyptian records nor in Greek records. Greeks called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews.

Palestine comes from Roman usage ⤵️


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## Rigby5 (May 22, 2020)

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Totally wrong.
There are lots of ancient Geek and Egyptian references to Palestine.
{...
The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BCE Ancient Greece,[7][8] when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called _Palaistinê_" (Ancient Greek: Συρίη ἡ Παλαιστίνη καλεομένη)[9] in _The Histories_, which included the Judean mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[10][ii] Approximately a century later, Aristotle used a similar definition for the region in _Meteorology_, in which he included the Dead Sea.[12] Later Greek writers such as Polemon and Pausanias also used the term to refer to the same region, which was followed by Roman writers such as Ovid, Tibullus, Pomponius Mela, Pliny the Elder, Dio Chrysostom, Statius, Plutarch as well as Roman Judean writers Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.[13][14] The term was first used to denote an official province in c. 135 CE, when the Roman authorities, following the suppression of the Bar Kokhba Revolt, combined Iudaea Province with Galilee and the Paralia to form "Syria Palaestina". There is circumstantial evidence linking Hadrian with the name change,[15] but the precise date is not certain[15] and the assertion of some scholars that the name change was intended "to complete the dissociation with Judaea"[16] is disputed.[17]

The term is generally accepted to be a translation of the Biblical name _Peleshet_ (פלשת _Pəlésheth_, usually transliterated as Philistia). The term and its derivates are used more than 250 times in Masoretic-derived versions of the Hebrew Bible, of which 10 uses are in the Torah, with undefined boundaries, and almost 200 of the remaining references are in the Book of Judges and the Books of Samuel.[3][4][13][18] The term is rarely used in the Septuagint, which used a transliteration _Land of Phylistieim_ (_Γῆ τῶν Φυλιστιείμ_) different from the contemporary Greek place name _Palaistínē_ (_Παλαιστίνη_).[17]

The Septuagint instead used the term "allophuloi" (άλλόφυλοι, "other nations") throughout the Books of Judges and Samuel,[19][20] such that the term "Philistines" has been interpreted to mean "non-Israelites of the Promised Land" when used in the context of Samson, Saul and David,[21] and Rabbinic sources explain that these peoples were different from the Philistines of the Book of Genesis.[22]

...}









						Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



And they clearly are referring to the Philistines, not Israelites.


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## RetiredGySgt (May 22, 2020)

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You seem confused. The IDEA was for the two entities to form Governments, the Israelis did so the Arabs REFUSED to do so and the neighboring Arab states tried to grab the whole area for themselves.


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## Shusha (May 22, 2020)

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Sigh.  

There is no need to "prove" the existence of the Hebrew/Jewish people.  There is ample evidence, easily found with the simplest effort.  Denying it is ridiculous.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Philistines were raiders from the Greek world, extinct for thousands of years. They didn’t name anything palestine.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Pope Francis: Christianity’s Jewish origin


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## Shusha (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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I would also super love it if we didn't use Xianity as a support for the existence of the Jewish people. The Jewish people exist apart from Xianity.  This is just another form of erasure.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Ancient Greeks called the country Judea, signifying land of the Jews ⤵️


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Judaism was the precursor of Christianity, which began as a Jewish sect


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## Shusha (May 22, 2020)

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Yes.  Every five year old knows that.  Don't confuse that with my POINT.  Which is that the Jewish people's existence is unrelated to Xianity and Xianity should not be brought into a discussion about the Jewish people.  The Jewish people exist independent of Xtianity.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Without Jews, Christians wouldn’t exist.


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## Shusha (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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Sure.  Sit your privileged Xian ass down.  We are discussing the Jewish people and we CAN discuss the Jewish people without bringing up Xianity, you know.  As I said, its a form of erasure.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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I‘m Jewish, you moron.


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## Shusha (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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Cool.  Then you should be able to support the Jewish people without mentioning Xianity.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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I’m putting you on “ignore.”


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## Shusha (May 22, 2020)

MartyNYC said:


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Lol.  Because I pointed out that you are erasing the Jewish people.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

Humanity said:


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Free “palestine“? Um, it was a fictional Roman name imposed on Jews. Roman Empire is defunct. Israel is free.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

montelatici said:


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In your parallel universe, Christians and Muslims inhabiting Jews’ homeland, which existed long before Christians and Muslims, transformed it into Christian and Muslim land? Um, no.


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## MartyNYC (May 22, 2020)

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Romans invaded ancient Israel and called it Judea, signifying land of the Jews. No place “palestine” existed. Jesus is called King Of Israel in the NT, born in Judea.


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