# No, we are NOT building the wall.



## RealDave (Feb 12, 2019)

Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.

He does not know the wall is not being built?


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## leecross (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



Trolling becomes you.


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## Sunni Man (Feb 12, 2019)

Incorrect Poindexter.

A nice big beautiful border Wall will be built.  ..


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## aaronleland (Feb 12, 2019)

He's not even asking for a wall anymore. He wants some steel slats, or some shit. Give him his stupid slats so we can move on to other things.


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## skye (Feb 12, 2019)

The wall is being built as we speak.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


You don't either, dumbass.


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


1.37 Billion to build 55 miles...and he has over 5 billion more slated after he signs the bill.   

Epic FAIL for you leftard...


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## RDD_1210 (Feb 12, 2019)

skye said:


> The wall is being built as we speak.



You've seen it? Or you've been told?


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## rightwinger (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



Classic Trump.....Claim you won after you lost

He is bragging about how much wall he has built


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## Oldstyle (Feb 12, 2019)

I think we're going to have another government shut down and I think that the people who work in government are going to be getting testier and testier with a Democratic leadership that won't compromise at all on the wall.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer see the wall as a political test of wills against Trump and they're not going to blink.  That's fine but Chuck and Nancy will have to explain to the government workers (who overwhelmingly vote Democratic!) why it is that they're getting screwed over yet again over a wall that the majority of Americans desire!

Trump is going to get his wall.  The question is...how much pain are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer willing to subject THEIR government workers to prove a point?


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## rightwinger (Feb 12, 2019)

skye said:


> The wall is being built as we speak.


A big wall, a big beautiful wall
And Mexico paid for it
Believe me


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 12, 2019)

RDD_1210 said:


> skye said:
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> > The wall is being built as we speak.
> ...








Currently being built....  Enjoy!

MAGA: Trump's Border Wall has started construction in Texas


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## rightwinger (Feb 12, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> I think we're going to have another government shut down and I think that the people who work in government are going to be getting testier and testier with a Democratic leadership that won't compromise at all on the wall.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer see the wall as a political test of wills against Trump and they're not going to blink.  That's fine but Chuck and Nancy will have to explain to the government workers (who overwhelmingly vote Democratic!) why it is that they're getting screwed over yet again over a wall that the majority of Americans desire!
> 
> Trump is going to get his wall.  The question is...how much pain are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer willing to subject THEIR government workers to prove a point?


Government workers are big fans of Trump after he.....

Denied pay increases
Froze promotions
Forced them to work without pay


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## Siete (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



the only people he needs to convince are his stupid shit, ass kissing drones.

the rest of the country is sane enough to know better - even Fox News knows he's a lying prick.


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## skye (Feb 12, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> skye said:
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> > The wall is being built as we speak.
> ...



you are so full of negativity and of ignorance..

that I will not say anything more to you


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## gulfman (Feb 12, 2019)

Are those two portable shitters on the US or Mexican side?


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## aaronleland (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> RDD_1210 said:
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They should have built it on the other side as the portapotties.


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 12, 2019)

gulfman said:


> Are those two portable shitters on the US or Mexican side?


The wall is 100' inside the real US border... Both sides are on US soil..


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## leecross (Feb 12, 2019)

aaronleland said:


> He's not even asking for a wall anymore. He wants some steel slats, or some shit. Give him his stupid slats so we can move on to other things.



The thing is, in less than five years EVERYONE will be saying, "Yeah. Building the wall was worth it."


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## LoneLaugher (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


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Please link to a source for that picture. Thanks.


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## ThisIsMe (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> gulfman said:
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> > Are those two portable shitters on the US or Mexican side?
> ...


Lol, that would be funny though.   They put the last section up and then one says "I have to use the the restroom!!!"
[emoji38]


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## Oldstyle (Feb 12, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > I think we're going to have another government shut down and I think that the people who work in government are going to be getting testier and testier with a Democratic leadership that won't compromise at all on the wall.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer see the wall as a political test of wills against Trump and they're not going to blink.  That's fine but Chuck and Nancy will have to explain to the government workers (who overwhelmingly vote Democratic!) why it is that they're getting screwed over yet again over a wall that the majority of Americans desire!
> ...


95% of political contributions from government employees went to Hillary Clinton in the last Presidential election, Winger!  So you tell me why Donald Trump should be concerned with making that demographic happy?  Chuck Pelosi and Nancy Pelosi on the other hand are going to start feeling some serious heat from a source they don't normally hear a peep out of.


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## Siete (Feb 12, 2019)

gulfman said:


> Are those two portable shitters on the US or Mexican side?



thats no where around the US ...

1. Theres no funding here for any solid structure.
2. see the drain hole at the bottom of concrete - not exactly man proof

enjoy.


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 12, 2019)

LoneLaugher said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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MAGA: Trump's Border Wall has started construction in Texas


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 12, 2019)

Siete said:


> gulfman said:
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> > Are those two portable shitters on the US or Mexican side?
> ...


You really are an Ignorant fuck...  But then I expect that from you...  You think there are no gratings and other obstructions in side that drainage culvert? You really have no concept of security protocols do you..?  Typical left wing idiot..


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## RDD_1210 (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


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That article is from July of 2017. Which funding did Trump use to get all of this work done in just 5 months of being president? 

This is going to be funny to watch you try to explain this.


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## Crepitus (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


It's a comforting lie for his faithful tRumpkins. 

Ask around, they all believe it even though they know it isn't true.


aaronleland said:


> He's not even asking for a wall anymore. He wants some steel slats, or some shit. Give him his stupid slats so we can move on to other things.


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## DJT for Life (Feb 12, 2019)

1.375 Bil will add to the 84 miles of rebuilt wall that has been
constructed.

The Obama sequester comes due in December.  55 Billion
Automatically cut from Domestic Spending.  Y'all think the dems
will give more money for the wall before then?  Only Trump can
save them from having 55 billion taken from domestic spending.

His wall should be totally finished before November of 2020.


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## Siete (Feb 12, 2019)

Santa Ana Wildlife Refuge huh ..

ok ... exactly like the pic with walls

About the Refuge - Santa Ana - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service


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## Crepitus (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> RealDave said:
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> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
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Fence.


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## LoneLaugher (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


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You've been duped. There has been no wall built on the Santa Ana Wildlife Refuge. 

That picture is not from the location cited in the article. 

You fucking moron.


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## rightwinger (Feb 12, 2019)

skye said:


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Trump once again was slapped down by Nancy Pelosi

No wall for you


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## skye (Feb 12, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> RealDave said:
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> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
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How do  you dare to talk about comforting...

sick


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## leecross (Feb 12, 2019)

RDD_1210 said:


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Maybe he loaned the money to the gubmint.


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## skye (Feb 12, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> skye said:
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so sad and pathetic....

oh well.....it's expected from those like you


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 12, 2019)

RDD_1210 said:


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Way to go dumbass...  Where in the fuck do you think they are building it? And yes it is still in process...


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## rightwinger (Feb 12, 2019)

Nancy Pelosi has more wall around her house than Trump has built


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## rightwinger (Feb 12, 2019)

skye said:


> rightwinger said:
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Are you tired of Trump growling at the feet of Nancy Pelosi?


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## RDD_1210 (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


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Did you even read the article? It says they are planning to build the wall starting in January 2018. This picture was posted in July, 2017. So that picture was either taken by a fucking time traveler who came from the future or it's NOT of the border wall Trump wants to build. Which one is more likely?


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## skye (Feb 12, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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no....not really....I'm more tired of your answers.


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## gulfman (Feb 12, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> skye said:
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Trump wins this episode of Wally and the Beaver


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



Using the 2006 Border Security Law, there is authority to build 124 miles of new construction for security along the border.  It does not authorize Trumps New Designs though.  That 124 miles was supposed to be done in the fiscal years of 2017 and 2018 but not inch was done.  That was part of the 2.6 billion that was allocated for border security upgrades and maintenance under the 2006 Border Security Law.  There has been some upgrades done and Trump has made a huge deal about it saying it was new construction. No, it's repair or upgrade, not new construction.  Some of his upgrades has been done to areas that don't need to be upgraded but it sure looked good on Fox News.  One of those areas was the wall at San Diego which is probably the lowest illegal entry area along the entire border.  But not too far east of that is areas that are run down, rusted and falling down that have not been touched.  No mention of Fox News about those areas.  I want to know where he spent that 2.6 billion he's already been paid to build new security barricades (not just walls), increase other methods of security, hire more Border Security (he decreased Texas Border Security Personnel last year), etc. long before we give him that 5.7 billion for him to squander like he has what he's already been authorized. 

We need an Audit.  If the Audit shows he's done a good job, I don't have a problem with getting him that 5.7 billion instead of the 1.3 plus inflation.  But we need to know where he's spent that money.  It certainly doesn't show it.  Otherwise, he needs to accept the 1.3 plus inflation and stop playing with the shutdowns already.


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 12, 2019)

US to build part of Texas border wall



> The US government is preparing to begin construction of more border walls and fencing in South Texas' Rio Grande Valley, likely on federally owned land set aside as wildlife refuge property.
> 
> 
> Heavy construction equipment was expected to arrive starting on Monday, US Customs and Border Protection said. A photo posted by the nonprofit National Butterfly Center shows an excavator parked next to its property.
> ...



Its already happening in several locations....


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## leecross (Feb 12, 2019)

skye said:


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An aside...


Try to imagine the covert Jihadis we see opining and trolling and probing and challenging and testing and exploring us and getting to know us and our thoughts and feelings and hot buttons and likes and dislikes online...


Try to imagine them someday safely hidden behind the scenes giving orders to useful idiot Kafirs during a SHTF situation to steer and manipulate the rest of us into doing the wrong things to help them and hinder or hurt or thwart our efforts if we were unable to get direction or info from authorized government sources.

We have no good way of vetting them.

They might have us going in circles or worse.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 12, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > I think we're going to have another government shut down and I think that the people who work in government are going to be getting testier and testier with a Democratic leadership that won't compromise at all on the wall.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer see the wall as a political test of wills against Trump and they're not going to blink.  That's fine but Chuck and Nancy will have to explain to the government workers (who overwhelmingly vote Democratic!) why it is that they're getting screwed over yet again over a wall that the majority of Americans desire!
> ...


What are the chances that a government worker would have voted for Trump before any of that happened?  About 5%.


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## Crepitus (Feb 12, 2019)

DJT for Life said:


> 1.375 Bil will add to the 84 miles of *rebuilt* wall that has been
> constructed.
> 
> The Obama sequester comes due in December.  55 Billion
> ...


Rebuilt.  Key word.  No money for tRump's wall.


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## aaronleland (Feb 12, 2019)

leecross said:


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You are an angry guy.


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## Kilroy2 (Feb 12, 2019)

The art of a deal

 $1.4 billion in border wall money

Is that less than 5 .7 billion

it certainly is less than the previous amount offered

Still I would bet that he will turn it down

yet Rush says take the money and run

my my the art of a deal, what to do

be stubborn on listen to Rush

I would listen to Rush as they are a great band

I choose free will


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## Crepitus (Feb 12, 2019)

skye said:


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Easy, I'm no fearmongering tRumpkin.  I can talk about comforting all I want.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Feb 12, 2019)

Sunni Man said:


> Incorrect Poindexter.
> 
> A nice big beautiful border Wall will be built.  ..



It will be the Ninth Wonder of the World.  Millions will come to marvel at its glory.

And then, they will turn around and go home.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Feb 12, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> RealDave said:
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> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
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What has he lost?

He can refuse to sign, and build the wall.

Or he can sign to take care of the paychecks, and build the wall.  

Which part do you not understand?


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> US to build part of Texas border wall
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tell you what, you tell us where exactly it's happening.  Every time someone comes up with this gem, they say it's new construction it turns out that is a repair or an upgrade of the existing border security that's already there.  But please do, tell us where.  So far, not one single inch of new border security has been added to what is already there.  But maybe all the rest of us are wrong. You educate us.


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## JGalt (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



I'm coming back here to mock you later, after President Trump shifts enough money around to finish the wall. Or declares a national emergency.

Later, dude.


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## Crepitus (Feb 12, 2019)

aaronleland said:


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Off the hook with the conspiracy theory crap too.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 12, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
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He can refuse to sign and not have ANY funds to build the wall.  Or he can sign the bill and build  the 124 miles the 2006 Border Security Authorizes he can build in the next two years.  You know, the 124 miles he was supposed to have already built but didn't with the 2.6 billion he already received.


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## Camp (Feb 12, 2019)

Trump is as some people put it, a lying motherfucker. Don't believe anything that guy says, claims or comments about. People who call him a lying motherfucker are speaking truthfully.


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## Crixus (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?




We know YOU aren’t, but it’s awesome knowing that your tax dollars will.


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## aaronleland (Feb 12, 2019)

The wall isn't being built. Trump's just a weird dude.

_"I swear the wall is being built, but I'll totally shutdown the government again if the wall I say is in the process of being built isn't being built."_

It's kinda like the Stormy Daniels thing...

_"I never swore this chick to an NDA, but I'm totally suing her for breaking it."_

He could be the worst liar on the planet.


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## BS Filter (Feb 12, 2019)

aaronleland said:


> The wall isn't being built. Trump's just a weird dude.
> 
> _"I swear the wall is being built, but I'll totally shutdown the government again if the wall I say is in the process of being built isn't being built."_
> 
> ...


The wall will be built.  There was wall being built during the Obama administration.


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## aaronleland (Feb 12, 2019)

BS Filter said:


> aaronleland said:
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> > The wall isn't being built. Trump's just a weird dude.
> ...



Yeah. We've been working on border security since this country existed. Making the argument after over 200 years that it's now a national emergency is just silly.


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## candycorn (Feb 12, 2019)

Daryl Hunt said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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That they can’t tell you is all the proof you need to know it’s not being built.


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## OKTexas (Feb 12, 2019)

LoneLaugher said:


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Too bad you're not smart enough to check out a image. That photo was taken in Jul 2016, it was a section of maobama wall. The following is what is being installed today near El Paso. As you can see it's replacing vehicle barriers.


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## Polishprince (Feb 12, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?




How about instead of a wall, ICE deploys drones armed with darts coated with Haldol?     Any illegals who cross the border get hit by the tranquilizing darts, and the border patrol loads them on carts and wheels them back across to Mexico before they can come to?


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## Claudette (Feb 13, 2019)

Sunni Man said:


> Incorrect Poindexter.
> 
> A nice big beautiful border Wall will be built.  ..



Yup. That it will. Once up it will save we tax payers billions every year.

Once its up they won't be able to get in and we can boot those that are here out. They won't be able to get back in.

Win, win for America.


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## rightwinger (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


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Almost half of federal workers are Republicans

There Are More Republicans in Federal Government Than You Might Think


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## iceberg (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


don't believe he gives a fuck what you trolls want. he's busy trolling you to make you do stupid shit like this.

trump - winning. get over it.


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## 22lcidw (Feb 13, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Is that why Virginia and Maryland are blue now.


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## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

OKTexas said:


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So the same fencing that has been getting put up for decades under Clinton and Obama. Remember not 1 foot of new types of barriers have been built.   That photo op of him with his test walls years ago?   NOT ONE FOOT of those designs have been used.  

Remember a few years ago when Jeb Bush said Trump is just asking for what Democrats have asked for and built, with more fence?   

And What was Trumps response?   "Jeb Bush just talked about my border proposal to build a "fence." It's not a fence, Jeb, it's a WALL, and there's a BIG difference!   We’re going to have a wall that works. We’re not going to have a wall like they have now,"



Instead we have the Obama/Clinton/Bush design wall in existing places, and fence.  The one like they have now. That section you show was literally built by Obama's deal with Congress to replace existing sections in need of repair.  

that's the "art of the deal"???   He can't get his own party to build wall in useless places, so Obama the past two years has more walls built at the border than Trump?   



So you are saying when Trump said "we are going to build a wall and Mexico will pay for it", you meant "We are going to continue Obama's traditions of border security and we will pay for it"

That's the only reason I can see you'd brag about that picture.


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## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


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Bullshit.  The article is from 2017 & says the wall is NOT being builtr.

No wonder Trump lies. His base is so fucking stupid they believe everything the conman-in-chief says.


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## debbiedowner (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



He knows this morning he's going to get 55 miles of a fence or something, he is going to sign the deal.


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## debbiedowner (Feb 13, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> I think we're going to have another government shut down and I think that the people who work in government are going to be getting testier and testier with a Democratic leadership that won't compromise at all on the wall.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer see the wall as a political test of wills against Trump and they're not going to blink.  That's fine but Chuck and Nancy will have to explain to the government workers (who overwhelmingly vote Democratic!) why it is that they're getting screwed over yet again over a wall that the majority of Americans desire!
> 
> Trump is going to get his wall.  The question is...how much pain are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer willing to subject THEIR government workers to prove a point?



Nope, he said he was signing the deal.


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## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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The part where the fat ass is not a dictator.

I know you hate it, but we have something called THE CONSTITUTION.

You know that document you assfucks piss 0n every time you want something.


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## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

BS Filter said:


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Fence not wall.


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## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

debbiedowner said:


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  Fence, not his wall.  He said fencing was bad.


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## debbiedowner (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


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Yep, won't be a wall. I bruised myself rolling around on the floor an hour ago when I heard he was going to sign. Great negotiator? lol lol taking less than what was offered before shutdown. Put it to his base again, but I am sure they will defend him.

Don't know about you but this winning is putting me in a state of frenzy.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


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So does he.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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ROFL!  It's been shown that 95% of them donate to Democrat candidates.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 13, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> skye said:
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> > The wall is being built as we speak.
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Indirectly Mexico would pay because the wall will keep his poor, drug dealing criminals out of this country and Mexico will have to pay for the welfare and incarceration and crime for them. Saving us billions we have to pay for them if they get across the border. He did not get what he wanted but..."sometimes you have to lose the battle in order to win the war".  The Dum-Rats just gave him an inch ($1.4 billion) big mistake proving border security is needed and he will get his wall. More than one way to skin a Dum-Rat.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


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Obama signed an EO and thereby violated the immigration laws of this country.

Was he a dictator?


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## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


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Details?


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## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


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 If there were no demand for drugs in the US, the cartels would not be in Mexico.

But hey, the cartels will see a hundred miles apf a 40' concrete wall on a 20000 mile border & just give up.


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## Mr Natural (Feb 13, 2019)




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## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


Rather than a wall,  we can build a prison to house the Trump family


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## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


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DACA, moron.  Obama had to violate most of our immigration laws to enforce that.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 13, 2019)

The Dum-Rats have blood on their hands by enabling  El Chapo to make billions by their open borders policies and sanctuary cities with drugs entering the country and killing Americans and creating crime. Money for Trump's wall is a drop in the bucket compared to what open borders are costing taxpayers. $1.4 billion is just a downpayment on Trump's wall. Call it a fence or whatever is it a barrier. Sometimes we have to crawl before we walk.


----------



## jc456 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


says you eh?


----------



## BS Filter (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > aaronleland said:
> ...


Yeah, you want a fence because it's easier to take down.  Admit it.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

BS Filter said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...


Easier to take down, and easier to get over.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

edward37 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


No.


----------



## LilOlLady (Feb 13, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> The Dum-Rats have blood on their hands by enabling  El Chapo to make billions by their open borders policies and sanctuary cities with drugs entering the country and killing Americans and creating crime. Money for Trump's wall is a drop in the bucket compared to what open borders are costing taxpayers. $1.4 billion is just a downpayment on Trump's wall. Call it a fence or whatever is it a barrier. Sometimes we have to crawl before we walk.


And the Dum-Rats should be going to prison with El Chapo for not protecting Americans.


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

Yah yah.

But, but we're building a great Big Bee-Ewe-Tee-Full, um, fence!

And if Mexico wont pay for it?  We will!  (Yeah, We're #1, We're #1....)

Right Campers?


----------



## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


How high does trump want to go?



Trump has done it again. 
Broke a new record. 
$22 trillion debt


----------



## busybee01 (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Presidents do have a right to prioritize deportations. He could establish a DACA program to shield certain groups from deportation. This is one thing Obama was right on.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Feb 13, 2019)

The wall is presently being built. It is invisible. Trump got the idea from the "shields" on the Starship Enterprise.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Feb 13, 2019)

BlindBoo said:


> Yah yah.
> 
> But, but we're building a great Big Bee-Ewe-Tee-Full, um, fence!
> 
> ...


If congress passes the El-chappo Distribution that Cruz authored, The Mexican Cartels will build the damn wall...  GO TED!  16 Billion dollars worth...


----------



## Billy_Bob (Feb 13, 2019)

Vandalshandle said:


> The wall is presently being built. It is invisible. Trump got the idea from the "shields" on the Starship Enterprise.




 

Your problem is obvious.... You need a rectalectomy...


----------



## Marion Morrison (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?




Quoted to rub your nose in later.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Feb 13, 2019)

edward37 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > edward37 said:
> ...


 When he breaks Obama's Record of 10.9 trillion in new debt.. You fucking idiots can start bitchin...  Until then STFU!


----------



## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Obama had reasons.  The last POS republican left America in a world of shit.  Obama got us out.  Now we have another republican POS  not only costing america billions but raking it in personally too


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



Why do you whiners keep this up?  The wall IS going to be built.  Back when this first started, I thought the right would wake the Hell up and see they were being played.  I over-estimated their intelligence.

This latest round is part of the theatrics.  The silly wall will be built.  AND, in exchange, we will get the ultimate *POLICE STATE*, beginning with gun control.  Another high cap magazine ban has been introduced; criminalizing private sales, doing away with gun shows, and National Gun Registration are on the table.  

Be patient.  Tyranny is on the way.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Feb 13, 2019)

There sure seems to be a lot of people on here who are out to convince me not to vote for Obama again. is he running for anything?


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

leecross said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> > He's not even asking for a wall anymore. He wants some steel slats, or some shit. Give him his stupid slats so we can move on to other things.
> ...




If you're happy and you know it clank your chains.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...




Poor Porter. There, there. It will be alright....


----------



## Votto (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



Yes, you are not building a wall, you are building a barrier, and  if anyone calls a wall a barrier then...............then......................screw'em cuz they are crazy.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

Polishprince said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...



How long before that turn that technology against YOU?


----------



## Polishprince (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...




I'm not an illegal.        If I were, and they did this, why would I complain/


----------



## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

BS Filter said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > BS Filter said:
> ...


 Actually, dickforbrains, it is more cost effective.


----------



## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




Actually, DACA has not been shown illegal  .  It is in our court system.


----------



## OKTexas (Feb 13, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > LoneLaugher said:
> ...




So you can't see a difference between the vehicle barriers being replaced and the human barriers being installed. 
This is an example of old wall.


 
vs the new replacing it


 
So it's not the same as you're arguing.
BTW welcome.

.


----------



## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Yet another dishonest piece of shit Trumpette blaming Obama for the debt created by the Bush Recession, his quagmire wars & an unfunded expansion to Medicare.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Feb 13, 2019)

El Chapo is paying for The Wall

If Manafort is funding the Mueller Witch Hunt, then El Chapo will pay for The Wall.  What will that fucking psychopath Pelosi have against it?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > edward37 said:
> ...



Obama was President for 8 FUCKING YEARS!  It's his debt.  Grow a fucking pair already


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Most of the increases were due to prior obligations and the 2008 meltdown (recovery).  His policies and agenda only contributed a fraction of that amount.


----------



## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

CrusaderFrank said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...


 He strted by inheriting a 1.5 trillion deficit assfuck.  why can't you candy assed Trumpettes admit that?


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



Cheney MADE Obama stay in Iraq and Afghanistan, right?


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



They've been told the Bush Recession was all Obama's fault.  Hillary and Obama spies had already penetrated the WH.  Their the one who caused it.


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

CrusaderFrank said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



I'm betting it was the advice of his Generals that made him do that.


----------



## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

CrusaderFrank said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...


  So now you resort to blaming Democrats for not stopping the Republicans from fucking up or not fixing the problems Republicans created?

Or maybe it is your vast military knowledge that you think we can just leave after we invade another country.

We did leave Iraq & you assfucks had a melt down.


----------



## OKTexas (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...




And it will go the same way DAPA did, bye bye.

.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


How will building the wall cause any of that?

You're obviously a dumbass.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

busybee01 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


No, presidents have no right to exempt any group of illegals from deportation. Furthermore, Obama did much more than that.  He issued work permits to these people, which is a clear violation of the law.


----------



## koshergrl (Feb 13, 2019)

It's true, Trump really did start building more wall in Texas


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Polishprince said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


How will they do that?


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


Wrong.  DACA is patently in violation of US immigration law. Illegal aliens are not eligible for work permits, period.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> BS Filter said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



Where has that been demonstrated?


----------



## Billy_Bob (Feb 13, 2019)

koshergrl said:


> It's true, Trump really did start building more wall in Texas


The Washington examiner, a far left wing paper, perplexed how Trumps wall building is still continuing....

Go TRUMP!

Watch how fast this wall gets built when the Army Corpse of Engineers is fully engaged..


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

BlindBoo said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > edward37 said:
> ...


ROFL!  Yeah, no matter what it is, it's always Bush's fault.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Feb 13, 2019)

Trump has rounded up the 5 million illegal aliens who voted for Hillary. They are building the wall.


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...



Prior obligation does include him, the Congress he served with, and all other Presidents and Congress critters before him too.


----------



## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...


And you want to ignore the depression he almost gave us?  The wonderful economy he gave Obama?


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

edward37 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > BlindBoo said:
> ...


Obama created the depression, shit for brains.


----------



## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Go see a shrink  ,,,,Go now  Times awasting


----------



## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

Those were Obama's 800,000 out of work in GWB's last month ?? I didn't know that


----------



## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

small business optimism declines for 5th straight month That damn Obama


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



True he did create a lot of depression,  but the depressed racists had nothing to do with the Bush Recession.

But on a lighter note for the racist, they did pay the country back in spades(ops is that racist?) by electing lying piece of shit Racist Russian sympathizer.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

BlindBoo said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > BlindBoo said:
> ...


"Prior obligation?"  What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## tycho1572 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


 

The wall will be built.


----------



## jillian (Feb 13, 2019)

leecross said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


Don’t try to attribute your traits to him, little trumpscum


----------



## jillian (Feb 13, 2019)

tycho1572 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


No one wants the wall except trump imbeciles,little trump troll


----------



## edward37 (Feb 13, 2019)

tycho1572 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


Being built now   ,,under invisible  shield   New Trump invention


----------



## leecross (Feb 13, 2019)

jillian said:


> leecross said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



What a cute little mouth you have.

Maybe too many puppy treats.


----------



## leecross (Feb 13, 2019)

jillian said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



You would want the wall if you lived here.

Think about how many Christians are allowed in Mecca.

How can we get that kind of border protection.


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Mandatory spending.

Mandatory spending is currently estimated to be $2.739 trillion for FY 2019. 

Should we blame Trumpybear for all that?


----------



## AzogtheDefiler (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Feb 13, 2019)

BlindBoo said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



Obama was at war longer than even FDR. He was at war EVERY FUCKING DAY of both terms


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



You're obviously a fucking moron to ask a question and then call someone a name.  If you've been in this discussion as long as you have and don't know the downside, you're not smart enough to be taken seriously.

You need to back the fuck up, leave that smart ass attitude between your ears, learn how to to be an adult, or STFU.  The downside to the Internet is that it draws stupid mother fuckers like you that God forgot to give a brain to.  

As a result, screw you.  I don't need to tell you the downside of your viewpoint.  Clank your chains when they take your Freedoms and Liberties.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> busybee01 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You don't get out much, do you?


----------



## BlindBoo (Feb 13, 2019)

CrusaderFrank said:


> BlindBoo said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



WWII was the last war we were in.  The battle for Okinawa cost more US lives than both the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions and occupations combined.  Yes, he had to deal with the consequences of those invasions and occupations.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

jillian said:


> tycho1572 said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



That is an outright LIE or you don't have much knowledge of the past.


BOTH sides want the wall.  The Democrats get the Nanny State; the Republicans get their *POLICE STATE*.  

National Gun Registration doesn't work without an accounting of all the people in the United States - which means they need the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify laws they conned the Republicans into.  Democrats got into the habit of demanding *control*.  Unable to shake their real motives, they conned the Republicans into promoting control of the people with really stupid laws on the pretext of safety.  

The big problem remains:  You cannot build a government big enough to save you from yourself.  Both sides are traveling down the road to socialism; to tyranny and oppression; toward a society that makes Hitler's tattoo idea look tame.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Feb 13, 2019)

BlindBoo said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > BlindBoo said:
> ...


So Obama WASN'T at war his whole 2 terms?


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

BlindBoo said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > BlindBoo said:
> ...


There's no such thing as "mandatory spending."  Congress can vote it all down tomorrow if it wants to.  Furthermore, Bush had the pretty much the same "mandatory spending."


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > tycho1572 said:
> ...


Republicans don't want a police state, you fucking douchebag.  The wall moves us no closer to a police state than an interstate highway does.  It's an inanimate object.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > busybee01 said:
> ...


How would that change the legal implications of DACA?


----------



## PoliticalChic (Feb 13, 2019)

BlindBoo said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > BlindBoo said:
> ...





After accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, Obama bombed more countries than any President since WWII

“U.S. Bombed Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia in 2016” The U.S. dropped an average of 3 bombs per hour last year



His whole presidency was a lie by the Left.....and suckers bought it like it was on sale.



Ask me about Obama's 'kill list' in the White House.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


In other words, you can't explain how the wall encourages or supports a police state.

Thanks for playing, dumbass.


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

OKTexas said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...



Yes, literally $0 for Trumps wall, only using existing designs.   None of those ones which Trump was showing off as his new walls that would be picked from in the picture.  

He's building the SAME EXACT FENCING THAT OBAMA WAS.


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

[/QUOTE]
Obama created the depression, shit for brains.[/QUOTE]

So the Great Recession which started in Dec of 2007 was Obama's because he did what While George W Bush was president?  

Or is this rewrite history day?   Cause then lets blame Obama for the Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, and the 1811 German Coast Uprising as well.   lol


----------



## OKTexas (Feb 13, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...




Really, provide a link, form previous years, that shows the same type fencing that's being built today. Time to put up or shut up commie.

.


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

Vandalshandle said:


> Trump has rounded up the 5 million illegal aliens who voted for Hillary. They are building the wall.



What did he do?  Give his employees the week off to work on the wall?   lol


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

[/QUOTE]


Really, provide a link, form previous years, that shows the same type fencing that's being built today. Time to put up or shut up commie.

.[/QUOTE]



Wait... now it's just another fence.

I can't put in links, but someone with an intellect higher than a 4 year old could just google bollard fencing and be filled with stories like this one from 2016.

"The only thing separating Sunland Park New Mexico from the Anapra neighborhood in Juarez is a chain link fence.

"Obviously just by looking at it you can tell it's completely dilapidated, it's falling apart", says Border Patrol Agent George Gomez.

The fence was built in the late 80's by Joint Task Force Six, the chain link fence has been breached multiple times. In 2014 during the annual border mass, a woman was able to slide through into the U.S.

The new fence was approved as part of the 2006 Secure Fence Act, a bill that was passed with the purpose of securing the border. The new Anapra fence has a cost of $11 million dollars. It'll cover approximately 1.5 miles and will be 18 feet high.

*"it's going to be a Bollard type of fencing so it's just going to be steel beams with about two to three inches apart from each other*", says Gomez."

El Paso News 2016

Or read the breitbart article on it with Trumps "Wall" and Obama's "fence" side by side.  And Obama's is just a bit older looking (And a LOT longer). 



Have you no clue what's even there?  I guess not, well I'll give you a big ol hearty welcome to fly across the pond and visit us here in the US and check it out for yourself.

Check out Sunland park, Columbus NM,  check out the Anapra neighborhood of Ciudad Juarez walls that bush and Obama have built.  Steel slat bollard FENCING.   The SAME EXACT thing trump is building (Except done by Obama).  Just now somehow called a wall... and a lot less of it than Obama built.

And remember when Jeb said Obama has been building hundreds of miles of border fencing, which yes, included steel slat bollard fences... 

"Jeb Bush just talked about my border proposal to build a "fence." It's not a fence, Jeb, it's a WALL, and there's a BIG difference!"   And now he's just building more of Obama's fences.

It's a fence.   Same as Obama built.  Changing the name from "bollard fence" to "bollard wall" is just hilarious and they've been putting it up since the Bush administration.

I mean what does he have?  10% of the border fencing made that Obama completed... That will be his legacy, maybe completing 1/4 of the border fencing Obama was able to?


And that's a funny commie quote.   From the guy who doesn't even have a clue about American history.  Bet you could explain the Fuck about the history of Leningrad though...   Next time, try not to do your Russian bot impersonation that you are clueless on what happens in America therefore it doesn't exist and other people need to teach it to you.  Ok kiddo...


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

So yeah OKTexas: 

he'll be known as the 2nd best steel slat bollard border fence building president in the past 10 years only coming behind Obama I guess.

Imagine if people knew that now?  That the whole wall and mexico paying for it was just building a tiny percentage of the fence Obama had already erected?  

His biggest campaign promise isn't even yet a sidenote in the Obama presidency achievements....  Wow.


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

I remember those rallies.

Trump: " what do we want?"

Crowd: " Some more of Obama's steel slat border fences!"

Trump: " and who's going to pay?!"

Crowd: " We Will!"


Yup... Just how I remembered it...  

He could promise someone chocolate pudding and they could watch him taking a shit in their hands and they'd still eat it up going "nope! It's chocolate pudding just like he promised"


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



You are a fucking ignoramus.

1 -   So -  called "_Patriot Act_"  introduced by Tea Party Republican Rep. James Sensenbrenner

Most common victims of the provisions of the so - called "_Patriot Act_" are the American citizenry

2)  The National ID / REAL ID Act E Verfiy  system - Again, the brainchild of Tea Party Republican Rep. James Sensenbrenner 

 National ID is Hitler's tattoo idea on steroids

3)  Warrant less search and seizure

4)  Eminent Domain abuse

5)  Trump's pick for Attorney General - the guy loves the idea of strict enforcement of asset forfeiture.  Rand Paul has pledged to vote against Trump's pick citing his concerns that Barr is for a "warrant less surveillance society."

6)  Trump himself endorses gun control

7)  Trump likes to enforce laws that penalize employers and tell them who they can and cannot hire.  When the government owns the jobs you have PURE SOCIALISM

8)  Rule by Executive Fiat.  If Trump don't get what he wants, he tries to rule by Executive Fiat.  That's as bad as the judges legislating from the bench

9)  Putting people under surveillance by drones and other technology from the womb to the tomb 24 / 7 / 365 

10)  Attempts to militarize the border over the objections of states wherein the governors say no national emergency exists.  What next?  Martial law to get his edicts enforced?

In your screwed up mind, what constitutes a *POLICE STATE*?  You are one screwed up dude.


----------



## Faun (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> edward37 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Fucking moron, there was no depression. You're suffering from advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage again.

There was a recession ... a massive recession ... and it started 13 months *before* Obama became president -- while George W. Bush was president.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



What does that have to do with my question?


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You calling people a dumbass is like Trump calling the public a bunch of liars.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


What does any of that have to do with building the wall, dumbass?


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Oooh!  That hurts!

Not.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Faun said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > edward37 said:
> ...


Obama made it several times worse.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




You're about as stupid as the day is long.  Each item mentioned was a way to give teeth to the wall, aid in enforcement, and / or advancement of the wall.  Other times the things mentioned were proposed as pretexts to give the semblance of credibility to the wall.  Are you for freaking real?  OR are you retarded?


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You can't be hurt with words.  More intelligent people will understand, however.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Why would I bother responding to your imbecile non sequitur?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Trump doesn't do that, but you clearly are a dumbass.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Intelligent people understand that you're a dumbass.


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## Faun (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Bu... bu... bu... BUT OBAMA!!!!!


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## SandSquid (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Wow caught in one lie, so you switch to another.   Gonna have to start calling you Pinnocchio I think with the Whoppers you are trying here.  

Let's see.  75 months of job gains (yes Trump inherited the longest run of job growth in US recorded history).

Averaged 214k new jobs per month with Obama., More than Trump's average of 175k.  Every single year under Obama the US added More jobs than any Trump year thus far.  

0 net private sector jobs added from 2000-2009.  83 straight months of growth in private sector under Obama (longest on record).  

2015 is still the us record for household median income growth since tracking started in 1968.

2014 was the largest 1 year poverty rate drop since it's been recorded in 1968

2012, us corporate profits as a % of gdp were highest in recorded us history.

Did this as average household reduced debt (the increase in gdp with increasing debt under bush led to the depression), and low interest and inflation rates.   

226% increase in stock market.

In 5 years private sector hourly workers pay (they make up 80% of the private workforce) grew more than in the COMBINED 27 years before he took office.





Economy turned for the better under Obama, it's kept a similar or slowing pace since.  

Reduced unemployment by 5%, cutting it in more than half in his first 4 years (trump has reduced by less than 1% cutting it by less than 20%)

And that's with inheriting a back to back negative growth gdp.   You want to know why it was only the great recession and not another depression?  Obama turned it around quickly


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## Oldstyle (Feb 13, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



LOL...so...did you want to point out the Obama economic policies that "turned it around", Sand Squid?  Give me some specific things that Barry did to stimulate economic growth in the US!


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## RealDave (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


 Lets see, we were losing 800,000jobs a month.
The economy was SHRINKING at a rate over 6 %
Deficit was oin a path to hit 1.5 trillion

SHOW ME WHERE OBAMA MADE THAT WORSE.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 13, 2019)

It sure wasn't the ACA!  That monstrosity was a drag on the economy.  His proposed Cap & Trade legislation?  Good thing the Democrats lost big in the 2010 midterms or that bit of progressive legislation would have totally FUBARed any recovery we'd had to that point!  His stimulus?  You liberals spent nearly a trillion dollars and created so few jobs that the Obama Administration had to start using that "Jobs created or saved" number to hide how few jobs you actually DID create!  Was it his energy policies that drove the energy boom in the middle of his two terms?  Not so much.  He opposed fracking and used the Gulf oil spill to shut down drilling permits all over the place.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



Obama oversaw the worst recovery from a recession since FDR and The Great Depression.  His total lack of understanding of how the economy worked...or how jobs are created...led to an economic recovery that tread water for the longest time.


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## Faun (Feb 13, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


LOLOL 

Asks a poster who credited Trump with stock market gains from before he was even president.


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## Faun (Feb 13, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> It sure wasn't the ACA!  That monstrosity was a drag on the economy.  His proposed Cap & Trade legislation?  Good thing the Democrats lost big in the 2010 midterms or that bit of progressive legislation would have totally FUBARed any recovery we'd had to that point!  His stimulus?  You liberals spent nearly a trillion dollars and created so few jobs that the Obama Administration had to start using that "Jobs created or saved" number to hide how few jobs you actually DID create!  Was it his energy policies that drove the energy boom in the middle of his two terms?  Not so much.  He opposed fracking and used the Gulf oil spill to shut down drilling permits all over the place.


Cap & trade had absolutely no effect on the economy. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?

And you’re lying again when you falsely claim he started using the term, “jobs created or saved,” because “few jobs” were created by ARRA.

Do you ever stop lying?

Ever???


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
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Because it would take one to know one and you've been doing it ever since I came on this thread.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
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When you don't have a clue, is that your only comeback?  You need some new material.  When cornered, Trump only complains that "it isn't fair."  You keep calling everyone who disagrees with you names.  Sure you are not inadvertently projecting?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 13, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
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Projecting again there bri.  Either you talk to yourself a lot or you have a really serious issue going on.  Check with Dr. Phil.  He might be able to help you out.  If you tell him you suffer from TDS, I'm sure he will be able to understand.


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## DJT for Life (Feb 13, 2019)

Crepitus said:


> DJT for Life said:
> 
> 
> > 1.375 Bil will add to the 84 miles of *rebuilt* wall that has been
> ...



Trumps wall includes rebuilding those worthless tin structures that are
down there.


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## Crepitus (Feb 13, 2019)

DJT for Life said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> > DJT for Life said:
> ...


tRump has built the wall with the power of imagination.


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## PredFan (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?



it is dip shit. It's being built right now. How stupid are you EXACTLY?


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## PredFan (Feb 13, 2019)

RDD_1210 said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> > The wall is being built as we speak.
> ...



I have relatives in Texas who have been watching it being built for quite a while now. I have mentioned it several times in this forum.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 13, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
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> > Faun said:
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We had the longest economic recovery since the Great Depression.  The was a direct result of his policies, like massive increases in regulation and like ACA.


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## SandSquid (Feb 14, 2019)

[/QUOTE]
We had the longest economic recovery since the Great Depression.  The was a direct result of his policies, like massive increases in regulation and like ACA.[/QUOTE]

Good point... You can't understate those record lengths of job creation, those records of how quickly poverty dropped, unemployment dropping, of wages rising.  I agree, the length of the improvement was unprecedented.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 14, 2019)

Faun said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > It sure wasn't the ACA!  That monstrosity was a drag on the economy.  His proposed Cap & Trade legislation?  Good thing the Democrats lost big in the 2010 midterms or that bit of progressive legislation would have totally FUBARed any recovery we'd had to that point!  His stimulus?  You liberals spent nearly a trillion dollars and created so few jobs that the Obama Administration had to start using that "Jobs created or saved" number to hide how few jobs you actually DID create!  Was it his energy policies that drove the energy boom in the middle of his two terms?  Not so much.  He opposed fracking and used the Gulf oil spill to shut down drilling permits all over the place.
> ...



Demonstrating how little you understand about how business operates again, Faun?  Businesses make decisions based on what they think will happen in the future.  That includes proposed legislation like Cap & Trade.  That includes incoming administrations.  

And if you're here claiming that the Obama Administration didn't start using "Jobs created or saved" to hide how few jobs they actually created with ARRA then it's you who are the bullshit artist...not I!


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## Oldstyle (Feb 14, 2019)

We had the longest economic recovery since the Great Depression.  The was a direct result of his policies, like massive increases in regulation and like ACA.[/QUOTE]

Good point... You can't understate those record lengths of job creation, those records of how quickly poverty dropped, unemployment dropping, of wages rising.  I agree, the length of the improvement was unprecedented.[/QUOTE]

You word comprehension is lacking, SS...the point that was being made is that the recovery from a economic downturn was the slowest since The Great Depression and that was because of Obama policies.

I'm curious...which do you think is better...an economy that grows by 1% each year for 8 years without ever losing ground...or an economy that grows by 3% for 6 of the 8 years and declines by 1% for 2 of those years?  Which would you rather have?


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## EvilCat Breath (Feb 14, 2019)

PredFan said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


Unbelievable isn't it?  The left will just deny it's there like they deny the caravans are real.  The left has completely moved into a completely imaginary place.


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## RDD_1210 (Feb 14, 2019)

PredFan said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...



LOL, no they haven't. Stop lying.


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## RDD_1210 (Feb 14, 2019)

Tipsycatlover said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



What happened to the "massive caravan" that we were all to be frightened of right before the election? The one that was bringing rapists and drugs to our borders. What happened to it?


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## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

debbiedowner said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > debbiedowner said:
> ...


Winning!


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## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

Doesn’t matter anyway

We will tear it down as soon as Trump leaves office


----------



## OldLady (Feb 14, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


14 new miles of fencing in the Rio Grande valley is being built this year on funds approved last year.  The money that seems to be about to be approved can build another 100+ miles.  At this rate, it could take centuries, though.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 14, 2019)

Siete said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


He's not a Commie bastard like the last lying prick tho.


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## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Doesn’t matter anyway
> 
> We will tear it down as soon as Trump leaves office


Because demolition doesn’t cost anything.


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## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn’t matter anyway
> ...



Don’t worry
Mexico will pay for it


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## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I’m being taxed to the hilt to support illegals as it is.
I don’t want my kids to have to support them.


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## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


They add more to our economy than they take out
And yes, they pay taxes


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I guess that’s why everyone I know disagrees with you...even the Democrat Nassau County Executive admits she’s a bleeding heart.
Let me know when you can live on $5.00/hour.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

RDD_1210 said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



Here's what I don't understand.  How come the caravans didn't happen when Obama was in office?

REAL ANSWER:  It's planned that way by those who benefit... think big orange man needing a pretext.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

mudwhistle said:


> Siete said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



Trump is a Democrat; a globalist and a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Donald Trump talks to Rupert Murdoch every week to discuss strategy


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...




Please explain how you are being taxed for "illegals."


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You apparently don't know many people.

"...when looking at the share of total income paid in taxes, the institute's report estimates the average tax rate for immigrants in the country illegally is higher than the rate paid by America's top earners."

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes


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## Faun (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...


*”Businesses make decisions based on what they think will happen in the future.”*

Don’t just say it— prove it. Show some companies that changed their business models based on Cap & Trade, and show what changes they made.

*”And if you're here claiming that the Obama Administration didn't start using "Jobs created or saved" to hide how few jobs they actually created with ARRA then it's you who are the bullshit artist...not I!”*

Lying con tool, he was using that phrase before ARRA was even passed. That was always his target — he did not start saying it, as you falsely claim, because “few jobs” were saved or created. And as many as some 3 million jobs were saved or created.


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## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Please explain how they can buy food, rent an apartment, buy clothes, go to school and get medical care on $5.00/hour.
You can’t, so stick your repetitive bullshit up your bleeding heart ass.


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## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


You live in $5 an hour because you have to support illegals?


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## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Tell me babysitters and cleaning ladies and landscapers aren’t being paid $5.00/hour.
I don’t live in isolation; I am fully aware of what they get paid.


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## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...





Give them working papers and they can receive real wages and legally pay taxes


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


I’ll give them walking papers to go home and make their actual country great.


----------



## Oldstyle (Feb 14, 2019)

Faun said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...


I have to "prove" that businesses make decisions based on what they think will happen in the future?  Really?  Take a freaking business class...ANY BUSINESS CLASS...and you're going to be hearing about projections.  Go to a bank and apply for a business loan without projections of what you think will occur down the road and see what kind of a response you get!

I don't care if "some 3 million jobs were saved or created", Faun because that number is FICTION!  There is absolutely no way on god's green earth that you can validate a number of how many jobs were "saved"!  It's impossible...which is EXACTLY why the Obama Administration started using it as their go to statistic on jobs!

You want to be honest?  Tell me how many jobs the ARRA created!


----------



## Faun (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...


You have to prove your claims. You’re a lying con tool with no credibility. You certainly can’t expect anyone to simply take you at your word. Prove any company altered their business model based on Cap & Trade....

As far as the ARRA, the nonpartisan CBO estimated as many as 3.6 million jobs were saved or created. You don’t have to like it, but yhat’s your problem, no one else’s.


----------



## Oldstyle (Feb 14, 2019)

Faun said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



You can't answer the question...can you, Faun?  I didn't ask how many jobs were "saved" because that's a bullshit...made up number!  I asked how many jobs were CREATED...which is a number that's verifiable!  So why do you keep ducking that like crazy?  Is it because you KNOW that the number of jobs created with all of that stimulus money Obama and the Democrats spent was shockingly small?


----------



## Faun (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...


You know as well as I, I can only provide the numbers estimated by the CBO — which I already gave you. 

Meanwhile, Obama had been using that phrase since the inception of ARRA, so you’re lying when you falsely claim he only started using it because ARRA produced too few jobs (according to you).


----------



## RealDave (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...


 So, if the ARRA prevented rthe closing of a facility  with 200 employees, they did no credit?  It is not a worthy?

Why not consider this as important as adding 200 jobs?


----------



## RealDave (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...




The ARRA did more than create / save jobs.  Lets not pretend otherwise.


----------



## RealDave (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> We had the longest economic recovery since the Great Depression.  The was a direct result of his policies, like massive increases in regulation and like ACA.



Good point... You can't understate those record lengths of job creation, those records of how quickly poverty dropped, unemployment dropping, of wages rising.  I agree, the length of the improvement was unprecedented.[/QUOTE]

You word comprehension is lacking, SS...the point that was being made is that the recovery from a economic downturn was the slowest since The Great Depression and that was because of Obama policies.

I'm curious...which do you think is better...an economy that grows by 1% each year for 8 years without ever losing ground...or an economy that grows by 3% for 6 of the 8 years and declines by 1% for 2 of those years?  Which would you rather have?[/QUOTE]


Lets see, would the worst recession since the Great Depression have rhe longest recovery since the Great Deroresssion?


----------



## RealDave (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



The ARRA.  ACA. Raising fuel efficiency ^ bailing out GM, 2010 tax cuts, bank regulations, etc etc


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## RealDave (Feb 14, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


  Why did we need a recovery?  Oh Wait, the Republicans nearly killed this country.


----------



## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


We can give them working papers and they can legally build Trump golf courses


----------



## RealDave (Feb 14, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


 That was Bush's plan.

Trump's employees didn't  need papers.


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## rightwinger (Feb 14, 2019)

RealDave said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Not like a Mexican can actually join one of Trumps golf courses but they are welcome to cut the grass or make beds


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



We have a local ordinance in Gwinnett County where I live.  It is illegal to pay any day laborer less than $10 an hour.  

Immigrant day laborers find shelter in Duluth | Atlanta Creative Loafing

The county D.A. said he would prosecute anyone that hires an undocumented foreigner and pays less than $10 an hour.  Enterprising people that can do something - like paint, build a deck, do basic plumbing, etc, can knock out an EASY $20 an hour all day long.  Don't see this place being any different than any other place in America.  You *can't* hire Americans to do the work.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Legal!?
Are you a fucking moron?
It’s illegal to pay illegals below minimum wage!
It’s illegal to pay illegals!


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 14, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...


The ACA helped the economy?







What the hell is ARRA?

When did Obama do to improve fuel efficiency?

Bailing out GM hurt all the stock holders and bond holders.  It only helped a lot of fat, lazy, overpaid union thugs.

What 2010 tax cuts?  

More banking regulations did not help the economy.  It positively hurt the economy.

Etc., etc., etc..


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



No, I'm not a fucking moron; I leave that to you and bri.  Do you have TDS?

It's not illegal to pay an illegal because you cannot become a citizen without the right papers, background checks, etc.  You no habla Ingles?  As you describe it, there is no such creature.  Adding insult to injury, even if one did exist, they would have a presumption of innocence.

You have access to the link.  Why don't you read it instead of asking questions that are more projection than an indictment.


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 14, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...




And that overwhelming majority of economists are all wrong because party trumps knowledge and fact lol


----------



## SandSquid (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



So what you are saying is that we have hundreds of cases of Trump owned businesses breaking the law, so badly so that we had to declare a national emergency because they keep giving illegals a reason to come here?

Damn, what a scumbag.. Deserves to be in jail for that huh?


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


So you are naive enough to think that the millions of illegals in the North East have applied for US citizenship.
You’re a moron.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Link?
Trump hire 300 business visas for 3 months.
We also found out he had 1 illegal working for one of his businesses.
Then you utilize your emotional disturbance to insist that he has thousands of illegals working for him.

You know why you’re a chump?
Trump can’t fart without it making the headlines and yet all you mentally disturbed people have after two years is one illegal.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You were projecting there.  Never ask a question and then assume the person you're asking is stupid.

What your pea brain fails to realize is that many of the millions of foreigners are not citizens and do not want to become citizens.  Since you didn't wait for the answer, that would make *YOU* the moron. 

The word immigration refers to people who come here to become *permanent residents*.   The antiquated immigration laws do not apply to millions in this country without papers.  Since the legislators are not addressing that fact, the courts are legislating from the bench to help you make important distinctions.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 14, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You don't get out much and you suffer TDS

"The _Post_ interviewed roughly twenty people working on construction for Trump’s new luxury hotel in Washington, D.C., and found that a number of them were there in the country illegally."

Donald Trump hired illegal immigrants to build his new luxury hotel because of course he did - AMERICAblog News

Trump Hires Illegal Aliens for His Businesses | MovieChat

We Googled 'Trump Polish workers.' Here's what we found

Trump Tower Got Its Start With Undocumented Foreign Workers

Donald Trump Admits Hiring Illegal Immigrants | HuffPost

3 Trump properties posted 144 openings for seasonal jobs. Only one went to a US worker.

‘This golf course was built by illegals.’ Trump’s N.J. club  hired undocumented workers for years, report says

I could probably do 20 more just like that and those suffering from TDS would make excuses, deflect, deny, and lie to you about the obvious.

Yeah, Trump's going to build the wall, knowing full well the son of a bitch is coming down and the precedents he sets will destroy EVERY FREEDOM AND LIBERTY OUR FOREFATHERS FOUGHT, BLED AND DIED IN ORDER TO SECURE FOR THEIR POSTERITY.

He's no different than any other politician except some really stupid people think his shit don't stink just because he eats caviar.  His history shows that he don't give two hoots in Hell about those on the right... those that, like Esau, sold their birthright for a bowl of stew.  He considers them to be useful idiots.  At the expense of National Gun Control and the *POLICE STATE*, Trump will have his wall and the precedents he leaves behind will destroy the Republic forever.  

For that matter, it's already gone and his supporters should start kissing their asses good bye.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...


Holy cow!
A whole 20 illegals got through the system in...how many decades?
300 visas for 3 months and Trump never once testified before congress in over 4 decades that the US needs business visas.
Feeling stupid yet?


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


I guess you don’t know what goes on in any other part of the country except where you live.
99% of illegals never apply for citizenship in Blue (Sanctuary) States.
In fact, ex-NYC Michael Bloomberg used Illegals instead of union workers for construction projects for years and bragged about it.
Restaurants in NYC and Long Island use illegals and pay cash.
No authorities ever come around to check because the food establishments belong to the local Small Business Authorities and contribute to the local politicians to leave them alone.

You are living in your own Private Idaho.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 14, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Why the hell so you think I want to pay more taxes to support people who don’t want to become citizens?
And here we are, spending 10s of millions of dollars a year for Spanish signs for non-citizens and you’re cool with that.


----------



## Oldstyle (Feb 14, 2019)

Faun said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...




Since I never claimed that Obama only "started" using it because ARRA produced too few jobs, it's you who's bending the truth!  What I pointed out was they started using it as their "go to" stat on job creation because they were embarrassed so few jobs were created by the Stimulus!

Funny how you can't provide me with the number of jobs created, Faun when that's a statistic that the government has been publishing for a long time (at the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)...through both Democratic and Republican administrations!  So why is it that you CAN'T provide those hard numbers instead of the bullshit, made up ones that the Obama Administration gave us each time they quoted "jobs created or saved"?


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## Oldstyle (Feb 14, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


Oh, the Republicans did it?  Well let's see...when W. was warning Congress that policies at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac needed to be changed or we could see a financial meltdown due to a crash of the real estate market...what was the response of Democrats like Barney Frank?


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## Oldstyle (Feb 14, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...


Dave...Dave...Dave!  The Obama Stimulus was supposed to create jobs.  It didn't.  The Affordable Care Act didn't create economic growth!  The uncertainty of what it consisted of and how it would be paid for handicapped the US economy!  The tax cuts?  Hell, Barry didn't want those!  They were forced on him by moderate Democrats that knew if they didn't get them that the economy would flounder even worse than it was!  Claiming credit for something you were against and were forced to do is pathetic!  Of course Barry did the same thing with Energy!  He was against fracking and the fossil fuel industries in general constantly hitting them with new regulations and delaying permits to drill but then when the energy boom created jobs and made us the leader in natural gas and oil production...good ole' Barry was there to take credit for it!


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
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> > Oldstyle said:
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Ummm, record setting job growth under Obama that kicked in almost immediately after his stimulus package was implemented.  Private sector job increases were even bigger.  So Obama didn't "create Jobs" except in EVERY SINGLE YEAR under Obama more jobs were created than either year under Trump so far.   If that was him doing badly, how awful is Trump doing?  

As for the Tax laws, he did want them and signed the bipartisan deal.  he threatened to veto the Bush tax cuts as a whole for a while yes.  That was to get his ending of those cuts for the top 1% (he got that in the new bill).


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > Indeependent said:
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What?  Are you brain dead?   It takes about 5 seconds to realize his companies never were willing to use E-verify, the simplest way to ensure you don't hire immigrants.  It takes 5 seconds to pull up the articles about the undocumented polish workers he hired to build Trump tower (then was sued until he paid).   

Is your defense actually going to be to prove that you have no knowledge on the subject on which you speak?   

I've got to try that with sports when talking to my friends.   Patriots aren't the best NFL dynasty cause I can only think of them losing Superbowls and never saw them win one.  lol   

Please please please stop using this "I'm ignorant on the subject" excuse and EDUCATE YOURSELF.  Even if you don't like what the facts show in the end.  

Because going through life dumb and ignorant is not a way to live.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
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> > Indeependent said:
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Well,  I'm actually feeling sorry for you.  Your reading skills showed us you're not up to the task.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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> > Indeependent said:
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You will never know how much of an idiot you really are.  So, you WANT people that you call names to become citizens, vote and  relegate you to the pages of history where you belong?


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Indeependent said:
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Who uses e-Verify?
I’ll wait.


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > Porter Rockwell said:
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You might say I am in favor of people living in the US actually being citizens rather than underpaid inter-generational slaves.
You see, I believe that many of these people and their progeny have the potential to be more than vegetable pickers.
You, on the other hand, are a racist who truly feels that Brown people are helpless without your pity.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
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My company does, #69,693 on the list and it has caught people with fake hiring documents for us.  All federal contractors are required to use it (It appears Southern White Houses, and campaign headquarters are exempt).  

Is this something new to you?   Are you from outside the US maybe? 

It's something we've had around for almost 25 years here in the states.  In fact as of 12/31/2018 there were 584,917 companies in the US using E-verify. Walmart, Amazon, and Kroger are the top 3 employers in the US.  All use it.  In fact 9 of the top 10 employers in the US are included in that group.


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## rightwinger (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
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> > Oldstyle said:
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Of course Obamacare helped the economy. Millions of Americans didn’t lose their jobs in the econmic disaster the Republicans predicted. 
In fact, millions of jobs were created after Obamacare


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## rightwinger (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
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Based on his documented hiring of illegals, it seems our President needs to


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## MisterBeale (Feb 15, 2019)




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## MisterBeale (Feb 15, 2019)




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## MisterBeale (Feb 15, 2019)




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## Faun (Feb 15, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
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> > Oldstyle said:
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*”Since I never claimed that Obama only "started" using it because ARRA produced too few jobs, it's you who's bending the truth!”*

This is why you’re known as a lying con tool on this forum, ya lying con tool. Here you are saying what you just denied saying...


Oldstyle said:


> You liberals spent nearly a trillion dollars and created so few jobs that *the Obama Administration had to start using that "Jobs created or saved" number to hide how few jobs* you actually DID create!


... emphasis added to highlight your lie.

Do you ever stop lying, ya lying con tool?

Ever???


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Indeependent said:
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I live in NYS and know many people who own food oriented businesses and others who own small software companies who use illegals to write programs.
My daughter lives in Florida and almost all building contractors use illegals.
Your honesty is appreciated but is unfortunately rare.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Wrong.  Obamacare hurt the economy big time.  For one thing, if you worked 30 hours a week or more, then you were considered a full time employee, and your employer was forced to provide you with insurance.  That meant a lot of people worked no more than 29 hours a week.  My wife is one of those people.  It also forced insurers to provide all kinds of coverage that no one wanted, like coverage for sex change operations or for drug abuse counseling.  ACA was the biggest drain on the economy of the Obama administration.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?


DumbAss a wall is going up as we speak.

*
Need an example of a border wall that works?  *Ask former *President Barack Obama* who, as Rep. Louie Gohmert recently pointed out, has just built *a 10-foot wall *around his new mansion. "Israel ... had a real problem with illegal immigrants coming in from the southern border, about 16,000 in one year. In two years, they constructed* 143-mile fence*, about* $2.9 million per mile*, and it cut that illegal immigration rate from about 16,000 to I think 18. Cut it by 99 percent, and we probably help pay for it with the money we send Isreal. The requested funds are the result of a *$38 billion *10-year memorandum of understanding signed between Israel and the United States at the end of President Barack Obama’s term. Israel is expected to receive *$3.3 billion in 2019.*
*The places where walls work.*
*The places where walls work - AEI*

_And we help build some of them with aid we provide._


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...



Obama does not have a ten foot wall around his "mansion".

You ase lying fuck  Like most of you dumbass Trumpettes.

Israel has a fucking fence, not a 40' concrete wall.

Fuck off you lying piece of shit.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> LilOlLady said:
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Is this a wall or a fence?


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> rightwinger said:
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   30 hours.  so your wife was such a worthless employee that her employer opted she work less? 

The ACA made it feasible for people to start their own small businesses & afford to buy health insurance.


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
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> > LilOlLady said:
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6% of the barrier is concrete wall.  Mostly built to protect against sniper fire.  We have Mexican snipers firing at us?


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
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The ignorant one is you.

We all know the ARRA saved some companies from bankruptcy.  Unless you think an economy shrinking at a rate over 6% never causes companies to go under.

So, what is the difference if policies save a factory with 300 jobs or if it creates 300 jobs?

You are being the typical Trumpettes asshole here.  We can't quantify every company where jobs were saved therefore  these jobs can not be estimated as a success story of the ARRA.

The ARRA provided funding to States that prevented the layoffs of teachers, policemen, firemen.  But hey, we can't talk about that  Noooooooo.


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
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The CBO called.  They said you are full of shit.  They say the ARRA did what is was supposed to do.

Obama had tax cuts in his original plan'

Is all you do lie?  You know you are pathetic when you claim the economy would have recovered on its own, totally ignoring how many more people would have lost their jobs & the length of the effects of the recession.

Obama never said he as against fracking.  Oil production increased under Obama.

And God forbid we add to the regulations after  the worst spill in US history. This is whart you get when you treust corporations to do the right thing.

Obama's policies helped us recover faster & build a string economy.

Now lets talk about YOUR party nearly killed America after starting with a balanced budget.


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
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Don;t you think it odd that Bush's attempt to take over Fannie & Freddie was defeated by a Republican Congress?

Fannie & Freddie were just participants, not a major factor in the financial meltdown.  Who deregulated the banking industry?

Qyuit blaming Democrats for your party's failures.  Grow a pair for Christ's sake.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
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> > LilOlLady said:
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Please tell me that's Jerusalem, A city walled off for millenia that also happens to have been overrun more times (44 of them) than any other city in the world. 

That would be hypocritical wouldn't it?  Trying to make your example a city which has used walls for millenia as proof that they just don't work for any length of time?


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

MisterBeale said:


>



Didn't China hide behind this wall and the Mongols came in and overran them and replaced China's ruler with their own?

Maybe a wall which doesn't tell the story of utter failure and the loss of an empire?


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > Indeependent said:
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Agree, look at DHS numbers, and Farming and Construction are #1 and #2.  

And they aren't willing to give that up.  Heck it took the political fallout that Trumps companies hire and retain illegal immigrants to even get him to start using Everify for some of his companies on new hiring only.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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OMG a wannabe comedian with no jokes.  

I think that if labor were to be considered a product of commerce rather than immigration, it would reach a broad spectrum of workers both blue collar and white collar.  The free market system also shows (throughout history) that competition is good for wages.

I don't know what world you live in, but the Hispanics I end up hiring are making an average of $23 an hour.  They damn sure don't need my pity.  But, I still might be a racist.  Getting tired of white guys laying on their ass, living off mommy and getting money from Uncle Scam for food when there isn't a damn thing wrong with them.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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Screw E-Verify


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> ...



That is utterly meaningless.  There's nothing worse than ignorant blowhards spouting off on subjects on which they are ignorant.



Porter Rockwell said:


> it would reach a broad spectrum of workers both blue collar and white collar.  The free market system also shows (throughout history) that competition is good for wages.
> 
> I don't know what world you live in, but the Hispanics I end up hiring are making an average of $23 an hour.  They damn sure don't need my pity.  But, I still might be a racist.  Getting tired of white guys laying on their ass, living off mommy and getting money from Uncle Scam for food when there isn't a damn thing wrong with them.


You obviously don't know shit about economics. Competition between laborers is not good for wages.  It drives wages down.  Flooding this country with cheap labor is not good for American workers.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
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> > RealDave said:
> ...


ROFL!  It takes a special kind of stupid to equate the ancient wall around Jerusalem to the wall Israel built around the West bank.  The wall is not around a city, dumbass.  It's around the entire West Bank.  There is no connection between the two.

I could go on all day about how utterly stupid you are, but plenty of other forum members have already weighed in on that subject.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> SandSquid said:
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So yes... You are using the example of the most heavily walled city in world history that just happens to be the most heavily overrun city in world history.

This is fucking Brilliant.  


Next up maybe take some pictures of the Maginot line and Germany's northern sea wall to show how really long walls prevent people that want across from coming across..   That would be an awesome next step for you.   

This has got to be the funniest thing I've seen though.  Literally use the worlds shiningest example throughout history of wall failure.   Bravo.  That took some balls to try that one...


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
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What am I using it for?  I proved your claim that it wasn't a wall is wrong.You claimed it was a fence.  What does your imbecile rant have to do with whether walls work?  Are you actually trying to tell us that Israel's wall works because it's 40 centuries old?  That is so fucking stupid that it's hard to believe anyone posted it.


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Indeependent said:
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Less than 2% of fruit and veggies are now picked by hand.
God knows what these farmers are using these illegals for.


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## evenflow1969 (Feb 15, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> ...


Hey dumb fuck ever here of right of way? They have to purchase it. This wall is far from being built. It will take years to purchase right of way and a million court battles. The only wall being built is where there already was one or where the right of way was already purchased which is next to no where. I am about to make a mint in expert testimoney. Before you go bitching about my spelling court battles over right of way mean big money for me. The tax payers are about to make a lot of people like me rich and you will still not likely get your wall. Testi money coming my way.


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > Porter Rockwell said:
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Cool story...
Illegals in NY ain’t making $23.00/hour.
And in NY it’s the African Americans sitting on the porches.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

evenflow1969 said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


The government already owns most of the right of way along the border, dumbass.  Only a handful of properties haven't been acquired.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Stupidfuck Trump talks about continuing building his wall.
> 
> He does not know the wall is not being built?








That taste good?


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

ROFL!  It takes a special kind of stupid to equate the ancient wall around Jerusalem to the wall Israel built around the West bank.  The wall is not around a city, dumbass.  It's around the entire West Bank.  There is no connection between the two.

I could go on all day about how utterly stupid you are, but plenty of other forum members have already weighed in on that subject.[/QUOTE]


Let me get your logic straight here.   DHS and DEA are both saying our biggest openings for foreign drugs and illegal immigrants coming into the country is through ports of entry (not to mention the deadliest of all of them is overuse of prescription drugs that start and end in the USA). 


So the solution you want is declaring a national emergency that instead builds a wall elsewhere other than the places DHS and the DEA says are our biggest threats?


It would be like me saying I want to get my broken down car running, so instead of fixing the blown engine, I’m going to make a new paint job my priority.  Then a year later wonder why my beautiful car doesn’t run.

It would be like the Captain of the titanic with options to choose on what he could fix ignoring the gaping hole in his ship, to make sure dinner was served.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > Indeependent said:
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Obviously don't live in a farming community I am guessing.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
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> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...



1/3 of that land is federally owned.   lol    1/3  

This is great.  You just spout it don't you.

From the United States Government Accountability Office survey of land at the Southern border

https://www.gao.gov/assets/670/669936.pdf

"federal and tribal lands make up 632 miles, or approximately 33 percent, of the nearly 2,000 total border miles."

So based on tribal land ownership, federal ownership is less than 1/3


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > ROFL!  It takes a special kind of stupid to equate the ancient wall around Jerusalem to the wall Israel built around the West bank.  The wall is not around a city, dumbass.  It's around the entire West Bank.  There is no connection between the two.
> ...



No, they aren't saying that, dumbass.




SandSquid said:


> So the solution you want is declaring a national emergency that instead builds a wall elsewhere other than the places DHS and the DEA says are our biggest threats?



I don't give a damn about the drug problem.  The problem I want the government to solve is foreigners walking across our border.




SandSquid said:


> It would be like me saying I want to get my broken down car running, so instead of fixing the blown engine, I’m going to make a new paint job my priority.  Then a year later wonder why my beautiful car doesn’t run.
> 
> It would be like the Captain of the titanic with options to choose on what he could fix ignoring the gaping hole in his ship, to make sure dinner was served.



You constructed a straw man.  No need for me to tear it down.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...



The government purchased the rights of way for most of the privately owned part of the border in 2006, dumbass.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...


You don't either, obviously.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> I don't give a damn about the drug problem.  The problem I want the government to solve is foreigners walking across our border.
> 
> You constructed a straw man.  No need for me to tear it down.



But not the actual illegal immigrant problem.  You want to spend on a wall where the smaller amount of illegal immigrants enter the US rather than actually work to solve the problem of illegal immigration.  

Got it.   Then a wall is the perfect choice.  Still leaves open the biggest path for illegal immigrants to enter the US.   Still allows those rich billionaires to employ them and reward them for coming over.   Just takes a lot of land from Americans and makes a wall.  


At least you are honest it isn't about illegal immigration.  Thanks bud!


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
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I obvioulsy also don’t care as long as they don’t go home after picking season.


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## evenflow1969 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
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> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...


 Still likely  over 100k in parcels. You spout go fuck your self. It will not be built before trump leaves office. Buying right of way is not all that goes into it. This is worse thatn a bridge to no where. Piece of shit twit.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
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Actually I just moved from one.  Where over half our community was hispanic.  Some of the best restaurants around too.  


Haha, you are a riot.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...


You know so much about all this you must be donald trump.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




https://www.gao.gov/assets/670/669936.pdf

So the 2015 report from the United States Government Accountability Office is wrong.   Got it.  Tell me where your facts are that contradict theirs please.   

If you are talking about the Secure fence act land grab, all told, the agency paid $18.2 million to accumulate a ribbon of land occupying almost half the length of the 120 miles of the Rio Grande Valley in southernmost Texas."

60 miles.   I thought you said "most".   Hmmm, care to prove that?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't give a damn about the drug problem.  The problem I want the government to solve is foreigners walking across our border.
> ...



You're spewing horseshit, dumbass.  No one is buying it.



SandSquid said:


> Got it.   Then a wall is the perfect choice.  Still leaves open the biggest path for illegal immigrants to enter the US.   Still allows those rich billionaires to employ them and reward them for coming over.   Just takes a lot of land from Americans and makes a wall.
> 
> 
> At least you are honest it isn't about illegal immigration.  Thanks bud!



Everything you posted is a lie.

Who do you think you're fooling?


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
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Nope just I would rather use facts to support my argument than argue from a position of ignorance and spout things that just aren't factually true.

So kinda the opposite of trump.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
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He would but you rabid liberals don't accept proof.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> SandSquid said:
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So why is Trump having his DHS and DEA both lie to the American people?   I mean what you are claiming I think is just horrible of him to do to this country.

If you are saying we can't believe Trump and his Homeland security dept on this saying the majority of illegals are overstaying visas on which they enter the US legally through ports of entry, that's your opinion.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> miketx said:
> 
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> > SandSquid said:
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When are going to use facts instead of media links?


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> miketx said:
> 
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> > SandSquid said:
> ...


The facts being that the US needs illegals?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
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> > SandSquid said:
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If a property is still "along the border," however the nebulous phrase is defined, even after it sold its right of way to the federal government.  What part of that don't you get?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
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Show where they said what you claim.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
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So prove it?   I mean what else should I go on of what the gov't owns on the border than the Gov'ts own accountability office reporting on what the federal government owns on the border?   

Care to show any proof that they are wildly inaccurate?  Which sections are you saying they are wrong about?


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## rightwinger (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
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The economy BOOMED under Obamacare

Republicans predicted an economic disaster if Obamacare passed

Boy were they wrong


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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You made the cla


bripat9643 said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




So no, no proof on your claims?  The GAO report in it's section titled "Southwest Border Terrain and Land Ownership"  says less than a third.   You say otherwise. They even have a map of Federal vs. other lands at the border.   Which sections are you saying are wrong? 

Sources?

It's been what?  3 pages of me sourcing and you not once.    Really?   

Ok I can play that game too.  

The border is actually only 80 miles with mexico.  Therefore the 2006 purchase using eminent domain to gain 60 miles of border made it so that the US Federal Gov't owned the majority of border land with mexico.   Your maps that show the border to be nearly 2000 miles carry no weight with me.   

lol.  

Wow this is fun talking like you.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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That's why so many oilfields closed under black jesus and we had record unemployment.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...


Why do you beg for sources when you know you will just deny them all? Bottom line here troll is that the wall is being built and all you can do is cry and wail on a message board lol


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
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So no?  You don't have sources?

I beg for them because on basic parts of this you seem quite uninformed.  So I'd like to see if you have sources or if you have to talk in circles to try and defend not being able to source your made up facts that contradict with actual facts straight from the groups in the US responsible for collecting that data.  

And yes, it seems you want to talk your way out of providing sources.   Got it.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
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 Yeah what was that?   longest run of positive job growth in US history?


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> miketx said:
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> > rightwinger said:
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Sure was.. For Part-Time, LOW WAGE jobs...  Why do you liars always omit that part?


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> SandSquid said:
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> > miketx said:
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Becaise it is noit true???


Billy_Bob said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > miketx said:
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 You are lying about part time.  You are lying about low wage jobs.

How good were the 10.9 million jobs under Obama?


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
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Squidward doesn't understand Eminent Domain and a National Security emergency designation allows us to bypass all the environmental laws and build on lands that are already 'right of way' designated. Even your attempt at getting locals to over-rule the determinations will not trump the executive authority of the President of the US..

You may get a temporary win in the 9th Circus court but you will lose when it gets to the Supreme Court of the US. And Trump will be building the wall at a furious rate already.


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
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  No Trump's wall is not being built.  You people are dumber than shit.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> miketx said:
> 
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> > SandSquid said:
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It's being built as you lie.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > miketx said:
> ...




Hmm, most don't bring that up because according to 

"from the month ACA was enacted in March 2010 to the end of the Obama presidency, full-time employment increased 12.5%, voluntary part-time employment (those who normally seek part-time work) declined 1.0%, and involuntary part-time employment (those who want full-time work but must settle for part-time) declined 35.4%."

FRED Graph | FRED | St. Louis Fed

Supporting graphs pulled from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. 

Care to source your lie?


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



U.S. Crude Oil Production - Historical Chart

Now what Assfuck


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Billy_Bob said:
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> > SandSquid said:
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Love the CNN bullshit...

"Average hourly wages increased 2.9% in 2016. That’s better than 2015 (2.3%) and 2014 (2.1%). But wage growth of 2% is essentially no wage growth at all once inflation is factored in. Wages generally grow 3% to 4% during normal (non-recession) years. According to the Economic Policy Institute, if wages had grown at a consistent 3.5% annually since the Great Recession, the average worker would be making $29.07 per hour, versus the actual average of $26 an hour today."


Way to go Obama....  NOT!

Wages fell drastically under Mobama...


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
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> > miketx said:
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Prove it.  Show me that 40' concrete wall.


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## Billy_Bob (Feb 15, 2019)

And the number of people Obama forced onto welfare... Is Stunning...






5.7 million employed people were removed from the work force due to your socialist constructs.. They went on to the hand out rolls.. And you Idiots celebrated this..


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## LilOlLady (Feb 15, 2019)

A sure way to secure the border. Lease the public land along the border or give the land to corporations to build their businesses like manufacturing, warehouses and storage and THEY will secure their businesses and at the same time secure the border. Over 40 percent of lands along the southern U.S. border are federally designated as National Forests, National Parks, ...Some of the most dangerous areas along the southern border are the *20.7 million acres *of Department of the Interior (DOI) and U.S. Forest Service (USFS) land.No cost to taxpayers. Just an idea.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> miketx said:
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> > RealDave said:
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They literally renamed Obama's Bollard Steel Slat Fence, as Trumps Bollard steel slat wall and tried passing it off as something different.   It's beautiful


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## koshergrl (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> miketx said:
> 
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> > SandSquid said:
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Say it again. 
It's funny. You think that by saying it over and over again, you're accomplishing something other than making yourself look like a retard.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> And the number of people Obama forced onto welfare... Is Stunning...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While that is an interesting graph but had nothing to do with your claim on full time/part time which the US Bureau of Labor completely shot down.   And seeing you use them as a source, you believe their reports, which debunk your myth.  So next time admit you were wrong and move on.  It looks better than you trying to move the goalposts and change your definition when you are proven wrong.

I agree the work force participation as baby boomers retire is going to be something that will need to be addressed.   And not sure that more families working two part time jobs turning into one parent working full time as the other partner leaves the work force and isn't needed to work is a bad thing.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> miketx said:
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Even your request is sheathed in a lie. But you forget, you don't accept proof.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 15, 2019)

Maybe Obama does not have a 10ft wall but the point is that his home is secure. Unlike the border, no one can enter him home and have never entered his home without his permission. 
The neighbor explains that the Obamas did add *“a couple of feet of retaining wall in front to what was already there.”*
They also installed black mesh along the b*ack yard’s retaining wall,* for privacy, the neighbor says.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Maybe Obama does not have a 10ft wall but the point is that his home is secure. Unlike the border, no one can enter him home and have never entered his home without his permission.
> The neighbor explains that the Obamas did add *“a couple of feet of retaining wall in front to what was already there.”*
> They also installed black mesh along the b*ack yard’s retaining wall,* for privacy, the neighbor says.



WE need a privacy mesh at the border!!!  lol

But nice job calling out the 10' wall lie as a lie.


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## rightwinger (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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Still a lot of menial labor in farming


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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> > Indeependent said:
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Just because you cannot find any meaning in the English language does not make it meaningless.  And I agree with you.  You definitely are a blowhard spouting off about a subject you don't know jack shit about.  That worthless bloviating on your part causes you to talk smack on the Internet that is idiotic and indefensible.  So, you resort to name calling while I'll stick to the facts.

Competition is always good for business

5 Reasons Why Competition Is Good For Your Business

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/sites/.../pages/pdf/FTC-Competition_How-Comp-Works.pdf

Why Competition May Be the Best Thing for Your Business

Forbes disagrees with you; the FTC disagrees with you; Inc.com disagrees with you.  So yeah, you are definitely a blowhard that needs to leave these discussions to people that have actually read something about competitive markets.

Furthermore, if foreign labor was treated as a commerce issue you wouldn't have this constant bickering over people allegedly "stealing jobs" (as if the public owns private sector jobs), no arguments about taxes, no "_anchor baby_" B.S. to squeal over and no threat of having millions of new citizens every year.  Since commerce can be regulated, there if little chance that the country would be flooded by foreigners.  

If we solved the problems, you wouldn't have a full time position bitching about so - called "_illegal immigration_."  It's apparently your meal ticket so you have an ulterior motive in NOT looking for viable solutions.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > SandSquid said:
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Yes there sure is.  And as farms grow and grow, the ability to run a family farm without needing outside labor has fallen.  

I remember single milk trucks that would hit 3 dairies on their same trip and not bring a full tanker.   Now it's all 10 loads from a single farm or more in a day.   

In the 90's and 2000's we added all this border security and number of immigrants actually rose despite it being harder and more dangerous to get into the US.   

But no politician is going to hurt their base by coming down on farming and construction heavy communities and push a true impactful fining and deportation plan.   Instead we get more of the same failed attempts that we've done before.   So sad.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



The American people don't want to work.  Passing it off on people you don't like and calling those people _"illegals_" hasn't been very productive for your side over the past two decades.   I can't speak to New York's issues which is why the whole subject of Guest Workers needs to remain a *STATE* issue.  

IF the African Americans where you live don't have a job, the picking season is coming up.  Employers here pay $11 an hour PLUS room and board.  They can work here for four months picking fruit and vegetables and go to the next job or use their money to get an education or maybe invest in starting their own business.

If you're in America and you don't have a job, you either don't want one OR you got locked out of the market by the dip wads that obsess over a freaking wall.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Bob said:
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Define handful in terms of miles.


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
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Americans don't want to work, priceless.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...



I am cracking up at the guy saying competition between 


Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...



I would agree.   Took a look with our local dept of labor here, and 10 years ago there were 10 applicants per job opening.   Now that number is 0.5.   I'm working on a multi-million dollar wage adjustment just to get bodies in the door and two of the other 5 major employers in the area I've used for a comparison are doing the same this year, as two others did last year.   

If you want a job, they are there.  Sure you might not get the job you want while living in the exact place you want.  You might struggle working in downtown San fran with no degree and wanting to live in walking distance to work.  

At times I truly wish we did not have E-verify, because there are times when an interview just hits the candidate you are looking for.  Then comes back the results and you have to pass and keep looking when the people just aren't there.


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## xyz (Feb 15, 2019)

There's probably a Trump golf course near the wall in the works, probably on government money.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Certain jobs absolutely.  

Listen to ANY farmer.   Ag labor is one of the highest rising wages in the US, (50% increase in 15 years) and they still can't get American's to take those jobs.  They've got ones trying anything, offering 401k's, paid vacations, and guess what they are left with showing up?  9 in 10 foreign born and over half not legal.


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## SandSquid (Feb 15, 2019)

xyz said:


> There's probably a Trump golf course near the wall in the works, probably on government money.



Leave a little door in the wall so he can keep his hiring practices going.  lol


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...


So you don't have any.


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Farmers are people; they love cheap slave labor.


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## Indeependent (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> xyz said:
> 
> 
> > There's probably a Trump golf course near the wall in the works, probably on government money.
> ...


What are his hiring practices?


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


You don't accept proof, you prove it all the time.


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## Marion Morrison (Feb 15, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> A sure way to secure the border. Lease the public land along the border or give the land to corporations to build their businesses like manufacturing, warehouses and storage and THEY will secure their businesses and at the same time secure the border. Over 40 percent of lands along the southern U.S. border are federally designated as National Forests, National Parks, ...Some of the most dangerous areas along the southern border are the *20.7 million acres *of Department of the Interior (DOI) and U.S. Forest Service (USFS) land.No cost to taxpayers. *Just an idea.*



A bad one.


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## tycho1572 (Feb 15, 2019)

The wall will get built.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Billy_Bob said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...



What part of "the slowest recovery since the Great Depression" didn't you understand?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Maybe Obama does not have a 10ft wall but the point is that his home is secure. Unlike the border, no one can enter him home and have never entered his home without his permission.
> The neighbor explains that the Obamas did add *“a couple of feet of retaining wall in front to what was already there.”*
> They also installed black mesh along the b*ack yard’s retaining wall,* for privacy, the neighbor says.


You're ignoring the wrought iron fence  on top of the retaining wall, douchebag.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



You posted a lot of nothing.  If illegals weren't in the country willing to work for half the wage, farmers wouldn't be offering half the wage.


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
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> > Billy_Bob said:
> ...




Ummmm, Don't you think that the worst recession ion 80 years would also have the slowest recovery in 80 years.

You fucking asshole.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


"Competition" between whom, moron?  You post claims that are out of context, and then believe you have proven something.  Note:  I said competition between laborers is not good for their wages.  It drives wages down.  Of course, you couldn't disprove that, so you blathered something idiotic about competition between business.

What the hell does "treating foreign labor as a commerce issue" even mean?  The words you use are meaningless in terms of economics.

You spew a series of unrelated incoherent rants, and then believe you've proven something.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
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The only reason it was the worst is the fact that Obama tried to fix it.


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
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> > miketx said:
> ...


 Fuck you Mikey.  You got no proof because the Wall is not being built.


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## RealDave (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
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The recession started 4th quarter of 2007.

It was trheworst because of George W Bush & your Republican Party.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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> > bripat9643 said:
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What's your point, idiot, that low wages are good for business?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
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> > RealDave said:
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When it started doesn't determine how bad it was.  How long it lasted determines that, and Obama is the one who was in office the entire time.


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## Faun (Feb 15, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> And the number of people Obama forced onto welfare... Is Stunning...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, it’s Obama’s fault people get old and retire.


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## Faun (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
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Fucking moron, the deeper hole you dig yourself into, the longer it takes you to climb out.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe Obama does not have a 10ft wall but the point is that his home is secure. Unlike the border, no one can enter him home and have never entered his home without his permission.
> ...


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Instead of pretending why don't you invest some time and come down and see for yourself.

A local newsman was here one year.  More than 100 jobs were posted on Craigslist, the local paper and with the state employment department for fruit pickers - $11 an hour plus room and board.  FOUR Americans showed up and two of those did not last a half a day.

Come to my neighborhood.  I'll show you at least a hundred people in MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD of white guys 20 and above that don't want to work and will NOT work.  Priceless my ass. You just spew shit because the truth hurts.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


I don't believe a word of that.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

SandSquid said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



If you want to hire someone, have them fill out a paper application in their own handwriting.  Meet them in person, shake their hand, and maybe ask for a couple of local references.  

Anybody can hire a pro to get your resume noticed.  E-Verify and background checks only tell you what Uncle Scam wants you to know.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



And you buy all your necessities from the most expensive places in town?  News flash - the cut rate stores and low prices are possible because nobody pays blue collar workers a surgeon's wages.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You lack of the economics of your own country is not anyone's fault on this forum except YOURS.  You don't understand concepts such as business being composed of labor so you call others moron?  

You are the most uneducated dumb fuck on this board.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


"Businesses are composed of labor?"  Once again you post a complete absurdity.  No, businesses are not composed solely of labor.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


No, enforcing immigration law won’t ruin farming. Most illegals do not work in agriculture — only about 4 percent of the illegal-immigrant population is employed in farming. In no state is farming the predominant occupation of illegal immigrants; even in places such as California, where labor-intensive fruit-and-vegetable farming attracts a relatively large illegal workforce, the main occupations of illegals are in hospitality (restaurants and hotels), services, and transportation. Americans already do three out of four farm jobs, and if there were no illegals doing the others, they might very well do those, too — but probably not at the wages that have prevailed among illegal workers. Again: So, what? Some of my dearest friends are criminals, but if your business model is such that you cannot turn a profit without violating federal law — and not some obscure, rococo EPA regulation but just regular old immigration law — then my heart does not bleed for you.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



You have a high opinion of yourself.  I don't give a shit what you think.  What we *KNOW *about you is that you are a chicken shit idiot that sits on the Internet all day long, calling people names.  I bet that taxes that IQ of yours that is not quite as big as your shoe size.

When you aren't bloviating about topics you don't know squat about you are projecting and calling people morons.  Most of the intelligent people are laughing their ass off at you because your fail safe is calling others a moron.  I can't quite find a word to describe you because calling you a moron would be an insult to the word.  You have been unable to rise to even that level.  But, you keep repeating the same B.S. hoping it will come true.  Who are you trying to convince?  Us or yourself?


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## WheelieAddict (Feb 15, 2019)

Duh, Mexico is.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Unless a company is completely run by robotics, it relies on human labor.  WTF?  Are you for real?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


If you didn't care about what I think, you would respond to my posts.  I call turds like you "morons" because that is what your are.  You pretend that you understand economics, but you can't even use the correct terminology.  You're an idiot. I keep proving that your BS is wrong.  I know you get tired of hearing that, but what else can I do, agree with your bullshit?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...



That isn't the only thing it relies on, moron.  WTF?  Are you for real?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...




You are a complete and utter idiot.  You need to hang with bri.  In Georgia, farmers tried to get laborers one year, but the quota had been filled before the first of April.

Losses grow for Georgia farmers waiting on feds to OK foreign workers

You follow me around on one thread after another, hoping to find an audience to buy your B.S. that you couldn't defend in that other thread.  I've responded to your lies and misrepresentations how many times???

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

Checks out posts # 3475, 3476, 3613, 36699, 3731, 3875, 3934, 4462, 4572, 4581, 4585, 4597, 4603, 4605, 4609, and 4612

Asked and answered.  Your lame points were dealt with and reintroducing them on this thread won't change the *facts*.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You've proven *nothing* except that you are struggling for relevance.  Anyone who follows my links can figure that one out.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


They can always hire American workers.  Of course, they will have to pay them a decent wage.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


What they can easily figure out is that despite your constant prattle about economics, you know nothing about the subject.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



*NOBODY* claims that business is only labor. You still struggling for relevance by lying is almost humorous.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


You just did, moron.

Who do you think you're fooling?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You don't understand the economics of your own country.  Otherwise, you would not call everyone you disagree with a moron.  You're an insecure child and I'm only humoring you because it's fun to watch a cockroach like you squirm.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



I'd hire them if they would show up.  They won't.  They're all just like you, fucking with people on the Internet and bitching about how bad it is in America.  You should try to contribute something because chickenshit name calling.  That kind of behavior is for maggots afraid to go into the real world.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




Who do you think *YOU'RE* fooling???  I don't have to make 1000 posts a day calling people a moron.  I don't hide behind a keyboard trying to make board enemies.  I tell people if you don't believe what happens here, meet me in town and let's go to some companies that are hiring; let's cut the shit and go into the real world.  

Your broke ass can't because you spend all your time on the Internet instead of working.  You got time to blow calling us names here, but not enough time to go out where people get hired and see just how wrong you are.  I have an open challenge for anyone here to go with me and SEE for themselves the Help Wanted signs versus the AMERICANS standing in line for Uncle Scam freebies.  Your lazy ass just don't want to work and you are only fooling *YOURSELF.*


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## miketx (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Troll.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 15, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




Yes, you certainly are.  If you trolls can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  We'll have a productive conversation or a conversation where you can try me, but may not like the outcome.


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## WheelieAddict (Feb 15, 2019)

Billy_Bob said:


> RDD_1210 said:
> 
> 
> > skye said:
> ...


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## Oldstyle (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...



Because there is no way to validate whether a job was saved, Dave!  It's why the Obama Administration started using that "Jobs created or saved" as their go to jobs statistic...because they could CLAIM that they "saved" hundreds of thousands of jobs and nobody could prove they did or didn't!

The reason that creating jobs is important is that it's something that's a real number...not something that an administration made up to make their use of stimulus money look better than it really was!


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## Oldstyle (Feb 15, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Faun said:
> ...


How do you determine that a job was "saved", Dave?  Did you want me to give you examples of jobs that Democrats say were "saved" that were never in danger of being lost?  The truth is..."jobs created or saved" was ALWAYS nothing more than a way to put a positive spin on a terrible use of stimulus funds that didn't produce what Democrats said it would!  In a period of time when we LOST a million and a half jobs...the Obama Administration declared that we'd actually "created or saved" 150,000 jobs!  And how did they arrive at that figure?  They simply made it up!


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...



No, yo just call them liars or dumb or a dozen other things.

Who do you think you're fooling?



Porter Rockwell said:


> I tell people if you don't believe what happens here, meet me in town and let's go to some companies that are hiring; let's cut the shit and go into the real world.
> 
> Your broke ass can't because you spend all your time on the Internet instead of working.  You got time to blow calling us names here, but not enough time to go out where people get hired and see just how wrong you are.  I have an open challenge for anyone here to go with me and SEE for themselves the Help Wanted signs versus the AMERICANS standing in line for Uncle Scam freebies.  Your lazy ass just don't want to work and you are only fooling *YOURSELF.*



How does that prove me wrong and you right?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Troll.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


So you don't do name calling?  Is that what your trying to tell us?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 15, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


You're humoring me?  Really?


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## RealDave (Feb 16, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...



So none were saved?  

So we can't count them so none were saved?  This is how desperate & ignorant you are about this.

We should ignore saved jobs because they can only be estimated by experts.


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## RealDave (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


  Obama was not Prersident in the 4th quater of 2007.  He did not take office until January of 2009 & within two months, things started tio improve.

If you did not like how long it took, maybe you should have created such a severe recession in the first place.


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## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Productive=lies distortions rabid claims all backed up by fake news


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## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
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> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...


lies distortions rabid howling


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## Oldstyle (Feb 16, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



Yes, Dave...we should ignore the statistic "jobs created or saved" and the REASON we should ignore that statistic is that it's fiction that a bunch of politicians created to save their asses!  "Experts" can't estimate saved jobs...they never could!  It's why it's the perfect deception.  You can claim any number you want and there's absolutely no way to prove or disprove what you've claimed!  That number the Obama Administration used to somehow show the loss of a million and a half jobs AFTER the stimulus was put into place wasn't so bad?  The 150,000 plus that were somehow "created or saved"?  Show me the math they used to arrive at that number, Dave!  You can't.  You never could!  The reason why?  It's simply a made up number!


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## Faun (Feb 16, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...



Aww, you poor, lying con tool...


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

RealDave said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
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> > RealDave said:
> ...


Yeah, yeah, we know he didn't start the recession.  No one ever claimed otherwise.  You're constructing a straw man.  What Obama did is make it last 8 years instead of 1 or 2.


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## Faun (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> RealDave said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


The recession didn’t last 8 years, fucking moron.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
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> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


GTFU.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Faun said:


> bripat9643 said:
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> > RealDave said:
> ...


Sure it did.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...



Government does not actually create jobs.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




Who do you think YOU are fooling???

Seeing is believing.  Screw allegations by either side.  Let me show it to you in live, living color.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



You get called on your B.S. and that's the best you can do???  More name calling to avoid a serious discussion?  Another bri CLASSIC FAIL


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## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


The wall is being built even as you contemplate post your next falsehood.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
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> > Porter Rockwell said:
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Seeing what is believing?  You can't show many anything that proves the laws of economics are wrong.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
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> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



I tried over a dozen times to have a productive conversation with you.  You resisted.  I'm willing to get into the dirt with you and play at your level since you don't have the courage to have a legitimate conversation.  When you're ready to ask realistic questions, leave the attitude behind and allow people to hear your facts versus mine AND MAKE THE OWN MINDS UP, I can accommodate you.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


You call that mindless blather "calling me on my BS?" 

Support your claims, or shut the fuck up.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



I would hope that I'm humoring you.  The only people being entertained by the toxic back and forth banter seems to by you and a couple of people suffering from TDS.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


You definition of "legitimate" is where you dispense your "wisdom" and I mindlessly agree. Sorry, turd.  Try proving your case for once instead of staging your infantile temper tantrums.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



You need to have an IQ equal to or greater than your shoe size if you want to remain in this conversation.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


You're humoring yourself with the belief that you're capable of committing logic.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



WTF are you talking about?  I promised the people that Trump *would *get his wall built.  Are you deaf, dumb, blind and stupid or just plain old stupid?


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Who says I do?  My only interest is slapping you down every time you post one of your piles of horseshit.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are grasping at straws.  You are the straw man argument KING.  

You don't know anything about any laws of economics as I've not argued any... except that competition is good for business and most economists *disagreed with your position.*.. except socialists.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




LMFAO.  Every claim I've made has been proven.  You have to move your cursor over the links and access them.


----------



## Camp (Feb 16, 2019)

Every time someone asks for an image of the new wall that is being built on the southern border we only see images of replacement or repaired wall. Is this a reason Ann Colter is calling the Trump wall dupes the dumbest people in his base of support. Why are so many of them members here on USMB?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



I can't be logical with a illogical dolt like you.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...




My temper tantrums?  You're the one who has *failed* to provide a single link to your worn out, repetitive communist talking points.  You're the one demanding attention with 1000 posts a day you expect a response to.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...




You're the one on the floor looking up.  You've been bitch slapped by more people than just me.  You were outsmarted by me which is why you need 1000 more posts between the real conversation and your B.S. banter.  You can't put enough posts between the truth and this kind of deflection you are using.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


You outsmarted me?  You have a vivid imagination.


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## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Liberal stains like you never prove anything. They boast, lie and run.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

Camp said:


> Every time someone asks for an image of the new wall that is being built on the southern border we only see images of replacement or repaired wall. Is this a reason Ann Colter is calling the Trump wall dupes the dumbest people in his base of support. Why are so many of them members here on USMB?



Welcome to the home of *T*rump* D*erangement *S*yndrome, Aka TDS.

Those who obsess over the wall want to stick their fingers in their ears, scream and post horseshit, not thinking that those who want both sides will access the many links I leave behind.

Since I'm not on the left or the right, I get to call B.S. on both sides when they say stuff that does not square with the facts.  Those suffering from TDS cannot tell you how we became the world's greatest nation *without* a wall; they refuse to explain whether or not we were ever a sovereign nation since they define sovereign nations as those with walls around them.  Since we've never had a wall around the U.S. by their words, we could never have been a sovereign nation - the silence on that while bri plays his / her silly ass name calling game is used as a deflection.  The right realizes the gig is up.  They cannot afford a productive conversation and you have entered their turf.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Guess that rules me out from being a liberal.  Never supported one, but you have your head stuck so far up the Clinton's ass, if one of them farts, it might be the first breath of fresh air you have had in weeks.  This wall shit was* their baby* before you got conned.


----------



## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > Every time someone asks for an image of the new wall that is being built on the southern border we only see images of replacement or repaired wall. Is this a reason Ann Colter is calling the Trump wall dupes the dumbest people in his base of support. Why are so many of them members here on USMB?
> ...


You are a leftist troll. Period. The wall is being built, but to debate that fact with you traitors is a total waste of time because you don't accept fact, reason or logic. All you are capable of is, Duh, I proved my point and you are a dum dum and I beat you and my ice cream is melting.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



I didn't have to use any imagination to outsmart you - just challenged to quit beating your chest and produce *FACTS from non-partisan sources as I do*.  With your ego and limited knowledge of this subject, a third grader could tie you up in knots.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...




You're a fucking idiot to make such an outrageous claim.  I have more fights - face to face with liberals than you and your entire cheering section COMBINED!  You're the one spewing socialist solutions that the Clintons were parroting BEFORE your dumb ass got involved in this.

You are, in fact, the TRAITOR here.  You spit on the Rule of Law, and stand behind losers that sell this country out for ten cents on the dollar.  The founders would have tried you for treason and you know it.  You can't play the liberal card with me.  I've not been flipped as you were.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > Every time someone asks for an image of the new wall that is being built on the southern border we only see images of replacement or repaired wall. Is this a reason Ann Colter is calling the Trump wall dupes the dumbest people in his base of support. Why are so many of them members here on USMB?
> ...


What I can't figure out is just what you're trying to prove.


----------



## bripat9643 (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


You're supporting Piglosi right now, moron.


----------



## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


 You are a libstain of classic proportions;  A legend in your own mind.


----------



## koshergrl (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...


He's cuckoo. Perfect example of leftist dissonance.


----------



## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > Every time someone asks for an image of the new wall that is being built on the southern border we only see images of replacement or repaired wall. Is this a reason Ann Colter is calling the Trump wall dupes the dumbest people in his base of support. Why are so many of them members here on USMB?
> ...


One cannot hold a productive conversation with liars like you liberals. Now you play the Goebbels card.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...




Then that is the first time we've been on equal ground.  

1)  The Constitution only gives Congress "the power  ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization..."  Naturalization = citizenship.  People engaged in commerce and not wanting to become citizens are not within the purview of immigration laws.  Immigration is people coming to a nation for the purposes of *permanent residence*.  

When you force people to become citizens, ultimately they outnumber you and out-vote you.  You're supporting your own destruction.  Those who do NOT want to become citizens are participants in commerce, NOT immigration.  Time those half a century old plus laws got caught up with the 21st century

2)  The costs in Liberty and Freedom outweigh any promised benefit.  Even the left is warning you that if Trump's "National Emergency" survives a Supreme Court challenge, your guns are GONE when the next liberal is in the White House and a mass shooting happens

3)  The list of Liberties already lost would fill a book.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



No, I'm not you non-thinking piece of shit.  *YOU ARE*.  Pelosi is going to benefit off your idiotic strategies.  Actually the left already IS benefiting off your stupidity.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



You, like your liberal girlfriend, are projecting now.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...



Calling me a liberal is a desperate attempt for you to claim any kind of legitimacy.  You're the one with your head up the liberals ass.  They benefit from your stupidity.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

koshergrl said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...



OMG, You are the leftist stooge - I believe the communists call you a useful idiot.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > SandSquid said:
> ...


I have respect for human dignity.
I will not underpay anyone who does work for me.
Now when are you going to blame the countries they are running away from and why do Brown people run away from Brown countries?


----------



## RealDave (Feb 16, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


Recessions have definitions.  You're a fool.


----------



## RealDave (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...


No, it isn't


----------



## RealDave (Feb 16, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...



Now you are back to claiming no jobs were saved by the ARRA.

All that money going to the states to prevent teacher layoffs, law enforcement layoffs, firemen layoffs.  Businesses not closing because the ARRA tax cuts put more money in the marketplace.

Certainly, if allowing a company to loses 10 jobs, preventing that closure saves 10 jobs, 

Here are 4 groups that estimates saved jobs.  Who knew they are just Fake News?

• CBO: Between 800,000 jobs (low estimate) and 2.4 million jobs (high estimate) saved or created.

• IHS/Global Insight: 1.25 million jobs saved or created.

• Macroeconomic Advisers: 1.06 million jobs saved or created.

• Moody's economy.com: 1.59 million jobs saved or created.

The proof is there.  You just wo'tl accept it.  Why?  Are you a Trumpette?


----------



## Astrostar (Feb 16, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> I think we're going to have another government shut down and I think that the people who work in government are going to be getting testier and testier with a Democratic leadership that won't compromise at all on the wall.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer see the wall as a political test of wills against Trump and they're not going to blink.  That's fine but Chuck and Nancy will have to explain to the government workers (who overwhelmingly vote Democratic!) why it is that they're getting screwed over yet again over a wall that the majority of Americans desire!
> 
> Trump is going to get his wall.  The question is...how much pain are Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer willing to subject THEIR government workers to prove a point?


"that the majority of Americans desire????"  Please, turn off Faux News.  They are killing you!


----------



## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

RealDave said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Sure it is liar. What lies will you post after it is completed? Will you hang yourself in protest?


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

Indeependent said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...




People leave cesspool third world countries because the government there is corrupt and many of the people south of the border are forced to work for drug cartels or not at all.

As long as the United States keeps manufacturing drug addicts on purpose, it's a losing battle for the peons living south of our border.  We can't police the world; our own citizenry does not want the responsibility of cleaning up their own back yard and the right has decided on a course of action that will take us into the same position as the third world countries.

Notice how the standard canard is to tell you about how this country or that failed country treats people coming within their borders.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are a lying idiot.  No matter how many times you tell a lie, it won't make it come true.  You stupid mother fucker, any idiot with an IQ above their shoe size can see what I wrote in *post  # 100  on this very thread*:

"Why do you whiners keep this up? The wall *IS *going to be built."

Those are my exact words in my *FIRST posting on this thread.*

You are a lying dirtbag to keep claiming otherwise.


----------



## LilOlLady (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


WTF does any of this have to do with building a border wall?


----------



## Oldstyle (Feb 16, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > RealDave said:
> ...



You really are a bit of an idiot, Dave!  When did I ever claim that no jobs were saved by the Obama Stimulus?  My point has always been that using "jobs created or saved" is nothing but a rather pathetic attempt by politicians to hide how few jobs they have CREATED!  I mean look at the CBO estimate!  800,000 to 2.4 million?  That's the spread of your "estimate"?  Every single one of those "estimates" is the very definition of "Fake News"!  Why?  BECAUSE THE NUMBERS ARE FICTION!  THEY AREN'T BASED ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT THEIR AUTHORS WANTED THEM TO BE!


----------



## LilOlLady (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Sound much like a personal problem to me.  Go take your meds and wait 30 mins before you post anything else.


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## miketx (Feb 16, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Porter Rockwell said:
> ...


Liberal liar. Traitor.


----------



## Oldstyle (Feb 16, 2019)

Astrostar said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > I think we're going to have another government shut down and I think that the people who work in government are going to be getting testier and testier with a Democratic leadership that won't compromise at all on the wall.  Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer see the wall as a political test of wills against Trump and they're not going to blink.  That's fine but Chuck and Nancy will have to explain to the government workers (who overwhelmingly vote Democratic!) why it is that they're getting screwed over yet again over a wall that the majority of Americans desire!
> ...



You're claiming that the majority of Americans don't want a secure border?  Since when?  You need to stop listening to MSNBC and CNN, Astrostar because THEY don't have a clue about what the average American wants nor do they care what the average American wants!


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are a lying idiot.  No matter how many times you tell a lie, it won't make it come true.  Check it out.


LilOlLady said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Most of bri's shit has NOTHING to do with a border wall.  When he / she got the beat down, he / she resorted to name calling.  Why ask me what his / her B.S has to do with a border wall?  That dumb ass can't stay on point.  It's challenges that mental midget's fragile ego to stay on point.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



Ha ha ha.  While America consumes over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply, you want to joke about meds - the most costly problem plaguing our country.  You had to be a dope addict to think that was remotely funny.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



I'd say that is a pretty accurate portrayal of who you are.  You are a traitor and if I were the Attorney General, your ass would be up shit creek without a paddle.


----------



## Porter Rockwell (Feb 16, 2019)

miketx said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



You are a lying idiot.  No matter how many times you tell a lie, it won't make it come true.  Check it out. In *post  # 100 the posters can see you are a complete and total liar.  That was my FIRST posting on this thread.*


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...


 Has construction 'already started' on Trump's wall?


----------



## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Astrostar said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...


 Look assfuck.  Not wanting  Trump's  wall is NOT the same as not wanting border security.
Democrats just gave Trump 1.3 billion for border security.  Ot a Truimp ewall;. 

So quit lying.  Quit being a dishonest fuck.

And give a shit about America for a change.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Astrostar said:
> ...



Yeah, it pretty much is.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Astrostar said:
> ...



We keep having the same discussion day after day, but if you want to see the people with TDS getting totally destroyed and all these issues addressed you should check this out:

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

Check out posts 4612, 4616, 4631, and 4633  (the most recent - I can cite many more on just that thread)  as examples of why people like bri abandoned that thread hastily and came here to restart an argument they consistently lose - over and over and over again.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Astrostar said:
> ...



Democrats don't want a secure border, Dave because that means the illegals they're counting on to keep them in power in the future can't get in the country!  That's what this whole fight is all about and always has been.  Democrats don't want a wall because a wall would actually work and that's the last thing they want!


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

They want a porous border that people can cross with ease...they want asylum for anyone who requests it even if we can't verify that the people in question deserve asylum and anyone who calls them on it they'll label as "racists"!


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
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  The illegals are used by corporate America to keep labor low priced.  Who loves corporate America - YOU & your party.

A  40' concrete wall would do little more than fencing.  Money would have more effect is spend on other methods of border security.

The only reason yiou want a wall is because Trump duped you.


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> They want a porous border that people can cross with ease...they want asylum for anyone who requests it even if we can't verify that the people in question deserve asylum and anyone who calls them on it they'll label as "racists"!


 Actually, the LAW says people have a legal right to come here to seek asylum.

You get called a racist when you post & say racist shit.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
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As I've stated before, this is an old argument, blown away in the last thread I participated on.   Check out post # 450.  Following those links will *completely disprove* your position.  Even Donald Trump disagrees with you.  The whole wall idea was the Democrats to begin with.  It's not about border security; it's about control.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> They want a porous border that people can cross with ease...they want asylum for anyone who requests it even if we can't verify that the people in question deserve asylum and anyone who calls them on it they'll label as "racists"!



Old argument with no basis in fact.  See post # 450 and follow the links.


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## miketx (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


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Yes it has.


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## Faun (Feb 17, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Faun said:
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LOL

Even the NBER thinks you’re a fucking moron, they say it lasted 18 months...

https://www.nber.org/cycles.html

... and here’s the email address to where you, a confirmed fucking moron, can personally notify the NBER that you know better than them as to how long the Great Recession lasted...

webmaster@nber.org


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
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 Where?


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## Faun (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
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Oh? How is there *currently* roughly 700 miles of border walls and fences if Democrats oppose them?


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## miketx (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


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Border.


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
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where on the border


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## miketx (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


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Close to Mexico.


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

miketx said:


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The border is close to Mexico?  Who knew.  So where is Trump's wall being built on the border close to mexico.


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## miketx (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


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Between the USA and Mexico.


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
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ho owns that land?  Is Trump building his wall on the land between the US & Mexico?


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## miketx (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> miketx said:
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No I don't think a Ho owns that land. There's a right of way, or whatever you call it, so you can cut your lying short.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > They want a porous border that people can cross with ease...they want asylum for anyone who requests it even if we can't verify that the people in question deserve asylum and anyone who calls them on it they'll label as "racists"!
> ...


You're really claiming that the Democrats DON'T want a porous border?  Your latest liberal poster child Beto has stated that if it were up to him he'd tear down the existing walls.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Faun said:


> Oldstyle said:
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So how much support for a wall is there currently from Democrats?  Be honest for a change, Faun!  Democrats now equate a secure border with racism.  If you don't want to let EVERYONE in...you're a racist!!!


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## LilOlLady (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


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September 2017 near San Diego *under construction.*
Sept 2018..Video released this week shows *construction underway in El Paso, Texas*, for a portion of a U.S.-Mexico border wall.
The video published by the El Paso Times shows construction beginning to r*eplace existing fencing with a wall *in Chihuahuita,
“In fiscal year 2017, El Paso Sector apprehended *25,193 illegal aliens,* seized *34,189 pounds of marijuana* and *140 pounds of cocaine*,” the release continued. "Additionally during that fiscal year, there were *54 assaults against El Paso Sector agents*.”


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## LilOlLady (Feb 17, 2019)

Replacement border *fence under construction* in early January 2019, near San Diego, Calif. AFP/GETTY IMAGES

SAN DIEGO, Calif. - A Honduran woman is believed to be the first member of the migrant caravan to have a child in the United States after *scaling the border wall* with her family and *giving birth within 24 hours.*
Calling the birth in the U.S. a *"big reward"* for her family's journey, Serrano-Hernandez told Univision, which documented parts of their journey: “With the faith in God, I always said my son will be born there (in America).” (Univision)

(Fucking freeloader.)


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## Faun (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


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You poor, lying con tool. Again.... Democrats support the current wall. Democrats support adding new walls where there are none. What they’re not supporting is rebuilding the existing walls. They offered that to Trump in exchange for a resolution on DACA, but the two sides failed to reach an agreement on that.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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If you read post # 450 on this thread, access that link and read it, you will find out who started the whole nutty wall idea in the first place.  We go from thread to thread, rehashing the same points.  Why?  

If you read that post, accessed the links and read them, you would realize how absolutely silly it is to infer that the wall is actually a left wing, liberal idea.  Let's quit having the same conversation and move forward.


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2019)

Faun said:


> Oldstyle said:
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"Support the current wall?"  What the fuck does that even mean.  The definitely don't support adding new wall.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Faun said:


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What a crock!  Democrats DO NOT support adding walls...they fight that tooth and nail because they don't want to stop the flow of illegals into the United States because they see them as their ticket to more political power!  You don't have the ability to admit that though...do you, Faun!  You can't admit that this is all about politics with the left because then you'd be revealed for what you really are...a party that doesn't care about average Americans...a party that cares about your liberal agenda and that's it!


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


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Faux is in denial.


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## Slyhunter (Feb 17, 2019)

If we can't stop the anchor babies and the illegal migrants we need to stop the Federal handouts.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
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When did I ever claim that the wall was a liberal idea?  I don't even know what you're babbling about, Porter!  The left has been resisting a secure border from way back in Reagan's day!  Reagan cut a deal with Tip O'Neal to get border security and then O'Neal reneged on that deal!


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Oldstyle said:
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To be quite blunt...Faun is lying through his teeth and he knows it!


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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No one can tell what he's babbling about.  He claims to be a conservative, believe it or not.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Oldstyle said:
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I've read his post #450.  His stance is that the Supreme Court doesn't have the right to interpret the Constitution and I would argue that doing so is their primary reason for being!  It's well established law that the Federal Government calls the shots on immigration...not the States.  He for some unknown reason feels this is unconstitutional without explaining why that's so.


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
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 Democrats have supported border fences.  They do not support a 40' concrete wall.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
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So you support a "fence" that won't stop anyone...but don't support a wall that will!  Got it... (eye roll)


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

miketx said:


> RealDave said:
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There is a right of way between the US & Mexico & that is where are building a wall?


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## RealDave (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> RealDave said:
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> > Oldstyle said:
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No fences don't stop anyone you you think 55 miles of a 40' concrete wall will?  So the higher the wall, the more difficult to tunnel under it?


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
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Yeah, I actually DO think a tall concrete wall will stop people!  So do your Democratic leaders which is the entire reason they won't fund it!


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Your answer makes no sense by the way, Dave...why would you support a fence that won't stop people if you're convinced that a wall won't stop them either?  Duh?


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## Faun (Feb 17, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Faun said:
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Fucking moron, Democrats just gave Crazy Donald $1.3 billion to construct *new wall.*

Don’t you know anything besides the KKK marched In *“Madison, Wisconsin”* in the 1924 Klanbake?


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## Faun (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Faun said:
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*“Democrats DO NOT support adding walls...”*

Lying con tool, Democrats just gave Crazy Donald $1.3 billion to construct new walls. You can’t lie your way out of a paper bag, no less, this.


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## Faun (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> bripat9643 said:
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Lying con tool, tell that to the Democrats who just handed Crazy Donald $1.3 billion to construct new walls.


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## BasicHumanUnit (Feb 17, 2019)

The poster above definitely is suffering from TDS

1-800-TDS-HELP

Don't delay....call now


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## bripat9643 (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
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> > Faun said:
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Trump proposed a 30' wall, so no problem.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Slyhunter said:


> If we can't stop the anchor babies and the illegal migrants we need to stop the Federal handouts.



It would be easier to get a constitutional amendment to do that and it could be done faster.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

bripat9643 said:


> Oldstyle said:
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You are a comedian.  I'm neither conservative nor liberal.  I'm a constitutionalist.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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You are a hoot buddy. * I* said the wall was and IS a liberal idea.  If you don't know what I'm talking about, let me walk you through this ONE MORE TIME:

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

That above is a link. You take your cursor and click on it.  Now pay attention to posts # 4612, 4616, 4631, and 4633. The post numbers are in the upper right hand corner just before the response begins.  If you're REAL lazy, just read the last post cited (# 4633) and pretend that the objections you think you have are new and have never been answered.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> bripat9643 said:
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You are a liar and an idiot.  My post says absolutely no such thing.   The United States Supreme Court is limited to interpreting the Constitution.  What the Hell is wrong with you?  Besides, do you think that people are so stupid that they cannot read the link for themselves?

If they read it, they will find out you are a lying mother fucker.  You're an egotist to boot.  So you read for those suffering from TDS because you think they're too stupid to do their own reading?  If they do, they figure that you are among the lowest of the low around here.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

RealDave said:


> Oldstyle said:
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The whole concept was still the Dems idea before the Republicans started trying to mimic it and claiming it.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
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Why do you keep sending me back to something I've already read...and not been impressed by AT ALL!  I don't happen to agree with your view that the Supreme Court can't interpret the Constitution.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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You guys suffering from TDS are either pathological liars OR  you're the dumbest people on planet earth.

The United States Supreme Court *IS* empowered to interpret the Constitution, but ONLY interpret the Constitution.  You are LYING about what I've said.

T*he United States Supreme Court cannot, constitutionally, legislate from the bench NOR can they empower any other branch of government with any additional powers*.  

YOU ARE AN IDIOT AND A LIAR.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
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Well now...someone's got their panties in a twist!  You're one of those pompous asses that thinks if you link something that everyone should instantly agree with you...aren't you?  I don't.  I think your view is incorrect.  You call me a lying mother fucker because I don't agree with your world view?  Go screw yourself!


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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I don't give a fuck whether you agree with me or not.  It's just that you have* NO CALL to misrepresent what I say*.  Insofar as me being a pompous ass, you're the arrogant piece of shit that thinks that those who agree with you are too stupid to follow a link and read the material for themselves.  Then you lie about it.

*You should go screw yourself FOR LYING ABOUT WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE!  *

You are a liar and an idiot.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
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You haven't figured out yet that nobody here knows what it is that you're saying, Porter!  I'm still trying to figure out what is yours and what is something you've appropriated from someone else without quotes.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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The link takes you to severa other posts.  We'll presuppose that you can read the other posts within the quoted thread. Look for quotation marks  they look like this "........."  In the quoted posts there are maybe 50 or so.

Other than quoting what I already knew, I've not appropriated a damn thing from anyone.  You just got busted for projecting and don't know how you will handle it when someone accesses all those posts.

I see no reason for having this conversation over and over and over.  We should do it once and move forward.  If you don't agree with a fact, counter with a fact.  And the fact is, had you followed all the links contained within those posts, you would find out that I believe that the Supreme Court has but one job: INTERPRET THE CONSTITUTION.

You lied about what I said and you read one post out of less than a half dozen that I referred you to.  Talking about quotes, I'd bet you a thousand dollars right here and right now that you cannot quote any sentence where I have *EVER* said that the United States Supreme Court cannot interpret the Constitution.  You should produce such a quote or get off my ass.  Those with TDS might get curious and find out you are a blowhard that tells more lies than all the political propaganda prostitutes in Washington Wonderland, District of Corruption combined.

BTW, don't flatter yourself.  Just because you can't read does not mean that you are everybody on this board - but, in the unlikely event you are, you must be posting from an insane asylum.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
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Nobody here KNOWS what your point is, Porter because you can't seem to explain it without having us read a few hundred words of your "links"!  Did you just admit that you appropriated a damn thing from anyone?  Or was that you being your usual unintelligible self?


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

If you believe that the Supreme Court does have the role of interpreting the Constitution I'm baffled by your contention that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to secure our borders and determine who may or may not come into the country!


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 17, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> If you believe that the Supreme Court does have the role of interpreting the Constitution I'm baffled by your contention that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to secure our borders and determine who may or may not come into the country!



As danielpalos says, there is no express authority to build a wall... especially when governors are telling you that NO national emergency exists.  You are so dishonest that we have to rehash this shit over and over every day.  Can you not read the posts that already exist?

Show me the sentence where I said the federal government has no authority to secure our borders.  Insofar as the balance of your post, ALL of it is already answered in the previous thread alluded to.  Why rehash it again?  Will having the same fucking argument every day end any differently or maybe you suffer from Asperger Syndrome?  

The Constitution gives the federal government only ONE job relative to foreigners:

"Congress shall have the power ... To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization."  Article I  Section 8 of the United States Constitution

ALL of this has been asked and answered.  

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

See if you can locate post #4570

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

Now, see if you can find post #4572

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

Look for post #4581

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

Can you see post # 4585?

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

How about post #4597?  Can you see that?

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

See 4603?

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

How about # 4609?

I trust you can scroll through those and find posts 4612, 4616, 4631 and 4633.  Check those posts and access the links.  Even if you disagree with every word I posted, you will have every side you ever imagined existed on the issue.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > If you believe that the Supreme Court does have the role of interpreting the Constitution I'm baffled by your contention that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to secure our borders and determine who may or may not come into the country!
> ...



When you start quoting Danielpalos...arguably the dumbest poster on the board...it's time to hang it up, Porter!


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## Oldstyle (Feb 17, 2019)

Chapter 2:  The source and scope of the federal power to regulate immigration and naturalization


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
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I agree with you for once.  The right has gotten so bad that the left's worst makes people like you look bad.

Both sides are either uninformed on the facts *OR* they are lying.  Most of the time when I am arguing, debating or whatever it is some of you think we're doing on a *discussion* board, when one side or the other feels trapped or threatened, they resort to lying, misrepresentations, or continual bait posts to put as many posts between their weaknesses and the facts.

The nice guy approach did not work for me.  A couple of people who live on this board would post 100 times every time they were proven to be lacking in facts.  I tried the Tweet sized comebacks; did the long winded thing, carefully documenting my sources; then getting down and dirty with the personalities that come here for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of others.

If the discussion boards are a representative example of who we are as a people, we are screwed.  The politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are playing all of you and, if anything, you should be dropping the partisan politics and trying to learn and understand from one another.  Both sides are lying to you.  The Democrats and Republicans; left and right; conservative and liberal are all going to the same destination by different routes.  For that reason those on the right should pull their heads out of their ass if they don't want a socialist country.  The whole immigration debacle is about *control*.  The Democrats want *control*; the Republicans want *control*. 

What I want is the least amount of government as possible.  I'm not as insecure as many of you are.  I believe that you should be able to post what you believe and if someone disagrees, they should post the reasons for the disagreement thereof.  Pretending to be in a Hillary v Trump political campaign speech does not help anyone understand the issues.  Calling each other names doesn't do the trick.  If I present my view and you don't like it, facts should be presented.  There is no need to misrepresent people.  I've never voted for a liberal in my life so when the people suffering TDS start with their rhetorical B.S. accusing me of being against a "secure border," then I despise them worse than a real liberal.  What they are doing is tantamount to looking at a veteran and telling them they don't love America.  What you don't KNOW, you should be willing to learn.

In my previous post are the *actual words* in that referenced thread from the *people that made them*.  You have one guy on there claiming all my material came from Wikipedia.  It shouldn't take you long (IF you have the courage to follow the links) to figure out that the loud mouths on the right are generally full of shit.  What the *conservatives believed just over a quarter of a century ago* is being mocked and ridiculed by those who THINK they know something they obviously do not... worse, they THINK they are conservative.   I know better because I was a part of the broad conversation.  And if you have the intestinal fortitude, you'll figure out that the power brokers with a globalist agenda are playing both sides.  Me?  I'm not one of their useful idiots and I'm not going to back down.  If you care about this country, then try to have a productive conversation without the usual banter.  None of you are going to win public office on this board.  So, where is the profit in the dishonesty from *EITHER* side?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Chapter 2:  The source and scope of the federal power to regulate immigration and naturalization




See, had you READ the posts I alluded to, I specifically commented on this.  Just for shits and giggles, let's review it YET AGAIN (already asked and answered in my posts.)  Stay with me and then answer me.  Here is the quote from that section that is important:

*The Constitution does not, however, explicitly provide that the power to deny admission or remove non-citizens rests with the federal government as opposed to state governments*. Hence, in the early immigration cases the *Supreme Court faced the problem of identifying the source of the federal government's exclusive and plenary power over immigration. *Later cases found the plenary power to be an inherent sovereign power.

1)  This section openly admits that the Constitution *does not* give an explicit power to admit or deny admission of non citizens

2)  When the Constitution does not give a power, that power rests with the states and / or the people.  Read the Tenth Amendment

3)  If you can show me where the Constitution gives the United States Supreme Court  "plenary power" I'll eat a copy of the Constitution.  The United States Supreme Court gave themselves that power.  It's all about *control.*

ALL of this is addressed in that previous thread going into the history of it all the way to the present day.  The United States Supreme Court is playing a game of semantics and if you bother to *READ the links I left*, you begin to get the picture.

The United States Supreme Court has exclusive power over *immigration*.  But what IS i*mmigration*?

Why is Building the Wall Wrong?   See post 4581

The reality is, the argument is not going to change no matter how many times you rephrase the question.  Either you believe in the Rule of Law or you don't.

So, why do you think that prior to 1875 the states had state immigration commissioners?  Those people had no authority over naturalization.  It's simply that we are applying immigration laws to laws in commerce. Congress has no authority to tell a state who may come there and work as a Guest Worker - a foreigner who does *NOT* seek citizenship is not covered in the Constitution as subject to immigration laws because they do not intend to become naturalized.

Show me where the Constitution gave the United States Supreme Court the authority to grant or claim plenary power over any issue not mentioned in the Constitution.  Then read the Tenth Amendment.  Oh that's right... you stumble over simple links.

What you want to know WAS asked and answered.  You're either stupid, lazy, a liar, or playing a head game.  Now that you've been shown you're rehashing old news, it's time to pull your head out of your ass and provide a counter argument NOT ALREADY DISCUSSED.


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## Faun (Feb 18, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
> 
> 
> > Oldstyle said:
> ...


LOLOL 

The forum’s lying con tool, exposed again.

Too funny.



Lying con tool, Democrats just gave Crazy Donald $1.3 billion to build new walls... you know, what you lie about and claim Democrats don’t support.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 18, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
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So when I disagreed with you...and you responded by calling me a lying mother fucker...was that your "nice guy" approach?  Hate to tell you this, Porter but you're as bad if not worse than everyone that you're calling out!  For some reason you think your opinion is the gold standard for this board and it's just another opinion backed up by a lot of long winded nonsense.  Get over yourself...


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## Oldstyle (Feb 18, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


> Oldstyle said:
> 
> 
> > Chapter 2:  The source and scope of the federal power to regulate immigration and naturalization
> ...


Here's the way it works, Porter.  As legal issues come up over time...such as the issue of who to let in and who not to let in...and who has the responsibility for making that call...the Supreme Court gives us their interpretation of the existing laws.  In the case of immigration...it wasn't something that the Founding Fathers or the framers of the Constitution cared about.  The more the merrier might as well have been the rule of law back then!   We had land to expand into and "manifest destiny" was our driving force.  That ceased to be the case at some point and it was recognized that we had to reach a consensus on immigration.  That was done by Congress enacting laws and the Supreme Court giving us their interpretations of those laws.  For you to claim that because the Constitution doesn't specifically address immigration that the Supreme Court has no authority to interpret immigration law is quite frankly laughable!


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

Oldstyle said:


> Porter Rockwell said:
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> > Oldstyle said:
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I gave you the facts, Oldstyle, and you came back with a straight up *LIE* as to what I'd said.  In post #481 you said regarding me:

 "His stance is that the Supreme Court doesn't have the right to interpret the Constitution"

So you set yourself up to be my personal judge and the pompous ass that can tell the rest of the stupid posters what I'm saying because you know all about me and yet you try talking down to me?  Really?

Now, because I don't like you misrepresenting me, you accuse me of thinking my opinion is the "gold standard?"  WTF is wrong with you?  I think you present the facts and make a decision predicated solely on that.  I refer people to posts and threads where this has been discussed.  That is much different than the danielpalos way of just being repetitive of my own points.  So, again, you're *LYING* about me.

Lastly, when I came onto this thread, and YOU need to look that one up for yourself, prove to the posters that I came here trying to be confrontational.  I'm not doing your work for you because we both know you're lying.  Had you not lied about what I said AND then set yourself up to explain your version (as if the other people here are too stupid to read for themselves) of my opinion you and I would not be having this conversation.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

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You are an arrogant prick and nobody can have a discussion with you.

The founders dealt with people who came and went within the states that were foreigners, but would never become citizens.  Had they wanted to grant the United States Supreme Court a power over those people, they would have.  They did not, but the states were left to decide the issue of non-citizens.*  NON-CITIZENS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IMMIGRATION SINCE THE PEOPLE IN QUESTION ARE NOT AND DO NOT WANT TO COME HERE FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCE.

Immigration is people leaving their home country to enter another for the purpose of PERMANENT RESIDENCE.  *Look it up in a legal dictionary.  People coming here to work should not be subject to immigration laws.  You should not be forced to become a citizen in order to do business in the U.S.  It should be regulated as a function of Interstate Commerce.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 18, 2019)

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Arrogant prick?  Back to your "nice" posts again I see... (eye roll)  Let me know when that whole "nice" thing happens, Porter!

So what do you call it when people come here to work and don't leave for decades?  Of course people coming here to work should be subject to immigration laws...that doesn't mean they need to become permanent citizens but they need to have the correct visas to come here and work and when those visas expire they need to extend them or leave.  No one has the right to work in the US.  It's a privilege granted to foreigners by the US.

Let me guess...you're one of those people that thinks *BOLD FACING* your posts makes them more powerful?  Like *THAT'S* going to win the argument?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

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1)  I bold words and ideas that are the main part of the subject.  That way people don't stray off topic over a side comment or other idea that is not a part of the topic.  It helps to illustrate a point.  For instance, you quoted what I said as if it had no relevance, forcing me to respond back and show you that what I quoted stated that the Constitution gives no express authority over non-citizens

2)  The Chinese built the Transcontinental Railway without the luxury of citizenship

3)  You still cannot change the meaning of the word NOR the idea.  Immigration is when a person comes here for the purpose of *permanent residence*.  In order to live here permanently, you have to be naturalized.  If they aren't going to be naturalized, the immigration laws should NOT be applied.  It isn't within the purview of the Constitution.  George Washington warned in his Farewell Address:

"_If, in the opinion of the people, the distribution or modification of the constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. But let there be no change by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed. The precedent must always greatly overbalance in permanent evil any partial or transient benefit, which the use can at any time yield_."

How about that?  I italicized the quote for you so you could tell it was not my words.  Anyway, by subjecting Guest Workers to immigration laws, you get to whine and groan about things that would otherwise BE OFF THE TABLE like welfare, a free education, and the privileges of citizenship.  But there is an element that does not want to resolve the issue.  They need it, much like Al Sharpton and Stacey Abrams need the race issue to brood over.

4)  Guest Workers are better regulated via Interstate Commerce laws.  Congress *CAN* regulate the flow of people coming and going within our borders without having to deal with the pretexts you put on the table.  Since there would be an orderly flow, no quota system to contend with, no tax money or benefits of citizenship being given to non-citizens, and employers being able to hire whomever they choose, you might just become a rebel without a cause

5)  The current immigration laws, passed by liberals, were designed to implode.  Those laws do not anticipate the changes in society nor the way we utilize labor.  If you make it a commerce issue and offer tax incentives for employers that hire an all American staff, it takes all these other issues off the table.

Trying to make this issue something it is not is causing the right to lose and lose every time in courts where the activists don't understand the laws of this country.  It is the peripheral issues used as a pretext to enforce the immigration laws that are destroying the Republic.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 18, 2019)

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So I didn't think your post that wasn't bolded had "relevance" but you thought that posting the same thing again...only this time bolding it would change my mind?  LOL  *REALLY?*


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## Oldstyle (Feb 18, 2019)

As for Chinese labor being used to build the transcontinental railroad?  What's your point?  As I stated earlier...for a long period of time the US welcomed newcomers to the country because we needed more people to populate such a vast area of land.  You're talking about the 1860's?  Real immigration control didn't start here until after WWI!


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## Slyhunter (Feb 18, 2019)

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really you think the Liberals would vote for it?
You are insane if that is what you think.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 18, 2019)

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I somewhat agree with you.  But in the past, an employer would sponsor in workers and get them work visas, pick them up, house them, feed them and pay them.  At the end of the season, the Employer would make sure they were sent back to the border so they could go home with the money they earned (and they paid taxes) to their families in Mexico.  What the hell happened to that program anyway?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

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I'm not trying to change your mind.  You post your facts; I'll post mine.  If there is a point I want to stress or bring attention I can bold it.  People do it verbally, so why do you have a problem with it?

A couple is arguing and one person stresses the word never.  Verbally, they put special emphasis on it.  So do I.  I'm not bolding everything I say or trying to double its font size, mix colors and some of the more elaborate stuff you see.

I quoted a source.  You quoted it for what you thought were facts in your favor, ignoring the relevant facts of my citation.  I brought it to the attention of other posters here that so they could see the FACTS I relied on.  In the instant case:

*The Constitution does not, however, explicitly provide that the power to deny admission or remove non-citizens rests with the federal government as opposed to state governments*.

That is what the article I quoted says.  It is a fact and if you dispute it, you should find something in the Constitution to counter it with.  If not, we move forward.  You don't have to believe me; you don't have to accept the facts; you say you don't see it that way,  If you cannot sustain your position, I'm content to allow those on ALL sides of the issue to decide on the merits of the argument presented.

Meanwhile, while you and I are arguing over non-essentials, there has to be that one guy out there scratching his head, asking even if my facts are accurate, what difference does it make?  But, I suspect that even you MIGHT know the answer to that.  THAT is the reason we're in this side argument.  The Declaration of Independence says that  "_truths are self evident_."  There is no requirement that you accept them.  AND, you're not the only person on this thread.  But, back to the point.  A German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer once observed:

"_All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident_."

You have violently opposed my views; lied about them; misrepresented them; ridiculed them.  You have shown FEAR that a position you don't understand might actually be considered.  Not once have I done the same to you.  IF the Constitution gave a power to the United States Supreme Court you claim it does, you should find some basis in fact for it.  But, if the move is unconstitutional, you should oppose it, not embrace it, no matter what the promised benefit to you is.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

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Thirty years ago I would have (actually a few times did) bet my life that the right wouldn't take a giant shit on the Constitution and adopt virtually every plank of the Socialist Party Platform.

Yet they did exactly that...  go figure.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 18, 2019)

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It's all up to interpretation.  The latest thing I have seen that is a complete afront to the Constitution of the United States is a "President" acting like a King ignoring the laws passed by the Congress.  Like the laws or not, those are the laws. If you don't like them, get them changed.  But NO one person is above the law.  If this is allowed to stand then all hell breaks loose as it sets some very dangerous precedence for the next President regardless of party or the year they take office.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

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Prior to 1875 the states did have control over who came and went.  Immigration / Naturalization / Citizenship was the exclusive domain of Congress.  Then the United States Supreme Court granted plenary powers to Congress.  The problem is, NOTHING in the Constitution gives the United States Supreme Court the authority to grant ANY OTHER branch of government any powers (especially exclusive powers.)  And so we lumped Guest Workers into the same pot as immigrants seeking permanent residence, thereby creating this flustercuck.  Now, we are trying to give temporary workers the benefits and privileges of citizenship while ignoring the simplest solution.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 18, 2019)

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You are absolutely right.  Our government was based on checks and balances.  Today, if the United States Supreme Court don't like their own decisions, they get to reconsider their interpretation.  What was perfectly legal today is illegal tomorrow - all because some unelected bureaucrat decreed it from the Supreme Court.

When the president don't like the agreement agreed to by the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate, he abuses the power of calling for a national emergency.  He rules by Executive fiat.  

What purpose does the House and Senate serve now?  When the liberals get into power, what stops them from total gun control because of a mass shooting or maybe going after an unpopular political group for offending the masses?  We used to understand that the concept of checks and balances existed for a reason.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 18, 2019)

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I "violently" opposed your views?  What did I do...hold a gun to their heads?  I disagreed with you and you called me a motherfucking liar and a prick!  So tell me, Porter...who's the one who "violently" disagrees with others on this board...you or I?

I understand the why people bold things...what I don't understand is why you think making an argument that doesn't impress others will suddenly do so because you put the same argument in BOLD?  That's pathetically stupid!


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 18, 2019)

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Okay, maybe we need to turn the clock back.

In Olathe Colorado, the Veggie Growers cry their little hearts out that they don't have enough facilities for the migrant workers.  In the old days, the Growers provided housing.  

Those same "Farmers" complain they can't get enough workers.  In the old days, they would have an employee head to the border at a entry point, pick out workers, sign them in, get them work visas, drive them back up north, house them, feed them, pay them and at the end of the season, they would put them back on the bus and drive them back to the border where they would exit the bus directly into the entry/exit point and go home to their families and homes.  There was no overstaying the work visas.  These were family men and women looking to feed their families in Mexico.  There was no reason for them to sneak them across the border and go into hiding.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

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Are you really that much of a megalomaniac?  Do you think* YOU* are the only poster that reads my posts?  You really think God chose *YOU* to read my posts and report to other posters what I just said?  

Let us suppose that we were all in a group in a room - all of us physically present and you opened up on me like you did with that first post you did on this thread.  What do you think would have been the most logical outcome of such a meeting?

You can lie all you want.  I enter a thread and play nice.  Read this entire thread, not just the posts you like to keep cherry picking.  Be honest.  Read the thread.  How long does it take before the build the wall extremists come unglued and start hurling accusations?  WHO was the first of any side to start that tone on this thread?  You jump into the midst of a heated battle, start LYING about me and then expect you should consider yourself a victim????  Are you kidding or are you really that stupid?  You're no victim.  You had a duty to read the thread before interjecting your views, aiming a lie at someone that is already under attack.  

Yes, Oldstyle, when you jumped into the fray, you became part and parcel of those violently opposed to allowing me the luxury of posting facts here.  Adding insult to injury, you will make every post from here on out about *YOU*.  You don't have the stomach for the truth.  You are a Democrat that thinks if you filibuster the personality contest to death, you can avoid the *FACTS*.  You're counting on the mass hysteria to keep us from discussing what the actual OP started this thread about.  From this point, forward it will be me v. you in your version of a popularity contest.  Nothing however will erase the fact that your first words directed at me were, *in fact, a lie*. 

Will you now move forward and discuss the OP?  I think not.  I think you'll come back, unable to admit that what you did was wrong and you got pretty much what you deserved.  You'll want me to be the bad guy because in your warped thinking, this is all about *YOU* and your fragile ego.  The next thread you participate on, you should have this little piece of advice:

"_He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame to him_"  Proverbs 18: 13

Next time, read the thread BEFORE embarrassing yourself.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

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Here, in Georgia, the growers pay $11 an hour plus room and board.  A couple of years ago one farmer advertised with the Georgia State Employment Service where all those who are drawing an unemployment check from the state are required to register and actively seek a job.  He advertised in a local paper.  He put up signs in town.  He even advertised on Craigslist.  He offered his last year's workers a bonus to bring someone with them.  

On the day he opened for business, only half of the workers he needed showed up.  A local newsman was doing a story about it for local tv news.  Of those who showed,  four Americans showed up.  Two of those were gone before noon.  The farmer could not get enough workers as the yearly quota of visas was exhausted by April.  As the farmer said in the interview, he did not know how he was supposed to determine the weather and crop yield a year in advance.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 19, 2019)

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Let's see...if we were sitting in that room...you made a statement...I responded by saying I didn't agree with you...and you called me a "mother fucking liar" and a "prick"?  They'd be calling an ambulance for someone and my guess is that it wouldn't be me!  Here's the thing, Porter...if some other person gave you a hard time before I got there...you've got no excuse at all treating me that way...especially accusing ME of being violent towards you when it was you that lost your shit!

I'm a Democrat?  Wow...did you ever guess wrong on that one, Sparky!


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

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All I can say is, it's too bad that we were not in a room and you tried to lie about me when you don't know me.  My "shit" was lost before you came onto this thread.  You did yourself NO favors by lying about me with your first post.  You might want to stop and think before pecking your keyboard the next time.

You may want to rethink your line of thought there chief.  If you walk into an ongoing fight and start taking sides, *LYING* about one of the participants, things might not work out the way you think they will.  When Republicans lie and do so knowingly, they are generally RINOs.

I don't have you pegged wrong.  I told you this was a thread about a silly wall, but you would derail the thread to try and have a personality contest.  Instead of letting it go and moving on with the relevant conversation, you're back proving me right again.  Democrat.  If you weren't you could move forward with the wall conversation and save the chest thumping for PM.  Nobody gives a rat's ass about your ego on this thread.  Might as well make it a private matter.  Give the posters a break.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 19, 2019)

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He need the old option of sponsoring in people right on the border, taking responability for their welfare, transporation etc. like they use to do including housing.  He could pay them minimum wage and they would work their asses off for them and be glad to go have him drive them back to the border along with thier newly aquired riches so they could go home.  It seems that the employers have forgotten how do to that.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

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Unless you are a major corporation, that is impractical.  There is nothing that prevents people, constitutionally speaking, that allows people to come through the United States.  Liberty is an *unalienable* Right.  All the federal government can logically do is regulate the flow.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 19, 2019)

* Dumbass* Nancy Pelosi argues that the *real national emergency *is not *illegal border crossings*, but *gun violence *in the U.S. ... More reason to build the damn wall. If gun violence is a national emergency so is the border because 2000 guns are smuggled across the border into Mexico each day. The reason we have* illegal border crossing* is because of the *gun violence crime* in Mexico.
Mexican National Security Commissioner Renato Sales has revealed that* 2,000 guns manufactured in the United States* are smuggled to* Mexican cartels and criminals* on a daily basis, significantly increasing violence and unrest in the* Central American country*.
'2,000 US-made guns smuggled into Mexico everyday'
'Open border is the *cause and effect *for the crime in this country and in Mexico. Secure border protects us and Mexico. Build the fucking wall. asap


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 19, 2019)

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If I have 1400 acres of produce then I would be considered a major corporation.  Okay, not a Corporation if it is a family owned but it's large enough to be treated as such.  That requires a huge (hugely to the strumpets) amount of seasonal manpower.  There can be a contract or agreement setup with the Feds in order to facilitate this type of program.  This means that the illegals don't have a reason to cross illegally anymore.  And then we can turn ICE loose to make the illegals and those companies that pay them under the tables life a living hell.  You want to stop illegal immigration, this is how it used to be done before it got so damned complicated.  Sometimes the old ways are the best.


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## Slyhunter (Feb 19, 2019)

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You use too many words to say so little.


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## Oldstyle (Feb 19, 2019)

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I'm not a Democrat, Porter.  Your continuing to call me one simply illustrates how clueless you really are!


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## LilOlLady (Feb 19, 2019)

We have a lot of problems in this country that need attention but to say we need them more than a secure border is like fixing one problem and ignoring the others. Some have a domino effect that one exacerbate the other or others. *Drugs and gun crimes* go hand in hand as the cause of many other problems. Incarcerations, separating families and social services are affected by drugs and drug-related crimes. Drugs are crossing our border.
This table organizes convictions of *criminal aliens *by type of criminal conduct. Because some criminal aliens may be convicted of multiple criminal offenses, total convictions listed below exceed the total arrests noted in the table above.
Criminal Alien Statistics - FY2018 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> * Dumbass* Nancy Pelosi argues that the *real national emergency *is not *illegal border crossings*, but *gun violence *in the U.S. ... More reason to build the damn wall. If gun violence is a national emergency so is the border because 2000 guns are smuggled across the border into Mexico each day. The reason we have* illegal border crossing* is because of the *gun violence crime* in Mexico.
> Mexican National Security Commissioner Renato Sales has revealed that* 2,000 guns manufactured in the United States* are smuggled to* Mexican cartels and criminals* on a daily basis, significantly increasing violence and unrest in the* Central American country*.
> '2,000 US-made guns smuggled into Mexico everyday'
> 'Open border is the *cause and effect *for the crime in this country and in Mexico. Secure border protects us and Mexico. Build the fucking wall. asap



Nancy Pelosi has duly noted that if Trump has a national emergency over immigration, the next liberal president can outlaw firearms and declare a national emergency due to a  mass shooting.  If that happens, we can thank you for the assault on the Second Amendment.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

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You don't get it.  I *AM* advocating the old ways.  People are so hung up on the misapplication of words and ideas that they don't understand it.

*Immigration* is people coming here for the purposes of *permanent residence.  Immigration / Naturalization / Citizenship  *That is in the Constitution.  The term "illegal immigration" is an oxymoron since it is a contradiction in terms.  It's all but impossible to be an "illegal immigrant."  An individual couldn't ever pull it off.

Then, if you are trying to make liberty for all a privilege, well good luck with that.  No wall is going to change the ultimate long term.  Again, the courts will have to declare much of what the right wants to do to be unconstitutional.  The ONLY way around that is to rescind the 14th Amendment.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

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Feel free to put me on ignore.  The post has nothing to do with you anyway.  I'm sorry, but I thought this was a discussion board.  Is it really Twitter?  Okay, that is your reading limit.  More than half a dozen sentences and what's left of your thinking process is fried.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 19, 2019)

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And, for you to suggest that I think the United States Supreme Court is not authorized to interpret the law shows how absolutely clueless YOU are.

Feel free to post something relative to the OP and we can discuss it.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 20, 2019)

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> > * Dumbass* Nancy Pelosi argues that the *real national emergency *is not *illegal border crossings*, but *gun violence *in the U.S. ... More reason to build the damn wall. If gun violence is a national emergency so is the border because 2000 guns are smuggled across the border into Mexico each day. The reason we have* illegal border crossing* is because of the *gun violence crime* in Mexico.
> ...


 Firearms and illegal aliens unrelated. In 1791 the right to "*bear arms*" is "an idiomatic expression that *means* 'to *serve as a soldier, do military service'"*. Not mass murder by a nut. Illegal aliens do a lot more harm to this country and people other than murder.

Language Log » What did it mean to 'bear arms' in 1791?

Actually, guns and illegal aliens are related in the sense that both need to be regulated. 2nd Amendment does not allow everyone to bear arms and our immigration laws do not allow everyone who wants to enter the right to enter. National emergency on the border is not to stop all immigration.  Regulates who is allowed to enter and regulated who is allowed to carry a gun.


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## TrumpisDaResistance (Feb 20, 2019)




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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 20, 2019)

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I do have a problem with the 14th as well.  The term Anchor Babies should not exist.  I believe that one or both parents should have to be a Citizen for the child to be considered a citizen.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 20, 2019)

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Your ignorance of our Constitution is absolutely astounding.  You have ZERO knowledge of what the term Rule of Law means;  you cannot tell the difference between* unalienable* Rights and privileges; have never studied the differences between *power* and* authority*.

Without that baseline of knowledge, you might as well burn the Constitution because you are, most likely, one of those who backed George W. Bush when he said the Constitution wasn't nothing except a G.D. piece of paper.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 20, 2019)

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This immigration issue will be the downfall of America.  It intersects with all other issues.  The 14th Amendment exacerbates the whole thing.

In the Preamble of the Constitution it says:

"_We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and *secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,* do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America_."

Notice the part I bolded.  The posterity of the Constitution were members of the white race.  As evidence of that, the Constitution went into force in 1789.  Then, in 1790 we had our *first Naturalization law*.  A relevant part of it reads as follows:

 "_Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a *free white person*, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof._.."

naturalization laws 1790-1795

In 1857 the Dred Scott decision ruled that the Constitution only protected the rights of whites and blacks could not become citizens.  Add to that we had anti-miscegenation laws and you're looking at a nation that was built on the twin pillars of the Christian religion and the white race.  Now, all of that is unimportant on the world scene given that China, Japan, North Korea, Zimbabwe are pretty much the same on those counts.  But, we make all manner of pretexts not to have the same luxury for whites.  The 14th Amendment made citizens out of people who now want to bankrupt America over reparations.  The 14th Amendment absolutely guarantees* liberty *to all persons (as differentiated from citizens.)   Add birthright citizenship to the mix and you don't need a degree from Harvard to see where America is going.

Immigration laws cannot fix that - neither can any wall.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 20, 2019)

As long as Mexico is a criminal country we are never going to be secure no matter how many walls and security we have. Relative secure us all we can hope for. Mexico needs a house cleaning beginning with the government. As most of the central and South American countries are. But we can be relatively secure if we had the people in our government to do it with enforcing our immigration laws, no more automatic birthright citizenship and mandatory E-Verify. We are wasting our time talking about it. Invading the middle east and spending $5.9 trillion has not made us safer. Give Trump the measly $5billion or not. Democrats or Republicans we are screwed. Without even having an Orgasm. I will probably get kicked off the forum now.


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## Mr Natural (Feb 20, 2019)

Those crops are not going to pick themselves


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 20, 2019)

Mr Clean said:


> Those crops are not going to pick themselves



Then we need to go back to the old way of the Employer taking a bus to the border entry point, picking his workers, guarenteeing that he will be responsible for them, getting them work visas, transporting them to his Farm, housing them, feeding them, paying them, working them.  At the end of the season, he puts them back on the bus and takes them back to the border entry point and helps to process them back through so they can take their new found riches back to mexico to their families.  Simple as that.

BTW, the Illegal Immigrants of today are primarily NOT Mexican.  It appears that the US has helped Mexico's economy enough that it's easier to make a living in Mexico.  What we need to do is to work with the other southern countries to get them that way as well.  We have done that through Foreign aid attached to certain changes that needed to be made. That Program was stopped by the Trump Admin.   Don't make those changes and they don't get the foreign aid.  Trump's admin also stopped the Citizens of Southern nations from applying for citizenship at the US Embassies in country.  That means that the only way they can apply for citizenship is to come to the entry point on the mexican/us border.  Hence the huge and continuous Caravans.  Mexico loves those caravans though.  They have more work than they have workers and bleed off good workers from them.  But even Mexico is being overtaxed recently by the numbers and can no longer absorb the excess.  

The "National Emergency" has been manufactured and can be cured not by dumping in hundreds of billions of dollars on the Border but by investing in the Southern Countries to make them do certain changes where we won't have thousands trying to force their way into the US at the border crossings and demanding citizenship and hardship hearings.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 20, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> As long as Mexico is a criminal country we are never going to be secure no matter how many walls and security we have. Relative secure us all we can hope for. Mexico needs a house cleaning beginning with the government. As most of the central and South American countries are. But we can be relatively secure if we had the people in our government to do it with enforcing our immigration laws, no more automatic birthright citizenship and mandatory E-Verify. We are wasting our time talking about it. Invading the middle east and spending $5.9 trillion has not made us safer. Give Trump the measly $5billion or not. Democrats or Republicans we are screwed. Without even having an Orgasm. I will probably get kicked off the forum now.



As long as you keep being humorous and doing more damage to the right than the left can do to them, I'd say the powers that be will always welcome you.

You keep blaming Mexico, but the United States consumes over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply.  Who is twisting the arms of the American people to be the* world's* most reliable drug users?  We lead the world in drug use.  All the countries COMBINED can't touch us.  

Mexico is the most criminal country in the world?  Surely you jest.  The United States has more people in prison than any nation on this planet!  Adding insult to injury, for* every one drug addict* in a treatment facility, we have *more than ten* drug addicts in prison, their crimes usually a result of their addiction.  I suppose in your convoluted mind Mexico is in charge of of getting kids hooked on drugs?  

Are you sure that the drug problem is not the result of parents, the schools / government, doctors / Big Pharma getting children hooked?

You want inapplicable immigration laws, written by liberals, to be enforced and you want to enforce National Socialist style National ID.  

I understand you perfectly.  Screw the Rule of Law.  Forget the original intent of the Constitution.  Mexico is to blame for everything.  Let's let the *POLICE STATE* run wild.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 20, 2019)

Mr Clean said:


> Those crops are not going to pick themselves


They should be working legally under the Bracero Program iniated on August 4, 1942, when the United States signed the Mexican Farm Labor Agreement with Mexico. This gives them a fair wage and protects them. Majority of the farm workers are in the country legally. In any of the US jobs, foreign workers should be working legally. No one is complaining about Mexicans doing farm work. No one is forcing them to work on farms. But the majority of illegal aliens are not working on farms. They are in the inner cities taking jobs and lowering wages from Americans that cannot do the work for the low wages and put up with the shit from employers. Go after employers who are addicted to cheap foreign labor. Wages will go up and Americans will take those jobs.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 20, 2019)

Daryl Hunt said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Those crops are not going to pick themselves
> ...


No one believes your BS. Housing and feeding them? LMAO. No employer housed and feed me when I was working. The PAID me.* 8 million undocumented workers* pick American fruit, etc. Today 90 percent of California’s farmworkers hail from *Mexico *


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 20, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Those crops are not going to pick themselves
> ...



That is pure speculation with no basis in fact.  In 1953 the government floated this plan they called Operation Wetback. In this failed program, every Hispanic without papers was forced back across the border the next year.

Funny thing happened: In less than five years the unemployment rate *DOUBLED!
*
The major problem in relying on National Socialist talking points is that they want to sell you some nonsensical idea without you asking the all important question:  What is the counter-argument to what I'm promoting?  In this instance, you keep coming here without a clue as to what the counter argument is.  The side you rely on is all about stressing the *cost*.  Does your checkbook or online banking account only have one side to the ledger sheet or does it have two?

In real life, there are *TWO* sides to the ledger sheet.  What the side you rely fails to tell you is the contributions that end up on the *OTHER side of the ledger sheet*.  I'd like to tell you what a FEW of those are:

1)  The foreigners not only work for less, but they produce significantly more.  That greater output makes the price of goods and services lower so you get lower prices

2)  When the foreigners are working they are generating income for their communities.  Landlords make money, stores sell more (as Hispanics tend to have bigger families than backward Americans)

3)  The poor who might lose all they have benefit because Americans are into ripping each other off.  Case in point:

I underwent *major *surgery.  The deductibles, medicine, living off 80 percent of my paycheck, etc. were beyond devastating.  A week after surgery, I had a overflow valve go out on my water heater.  So, I call in Bubba the plumber with his union prices and gas guzzling van.  I had already bought the necessary part.  All this POS had to do was swap out the part.

He and the other plumber retreated back to their van, emerging almost half an hour later with an estimate.  They had already charged me $40 to come out and give an "_estimate_."   The estimate:  $245.  I gave the man his $40 and said "_you have exactly 40 seconds to be off my property_."    Then I got a guy off Craigslist.  He comes over, looks at the valve and says, "let me get my stuff off the truck."  While he did that I hooked up a water hose to the water heater and began draining it.  The guy comes down the stairs, flips off the breaker and in under 15 minutes, he has changed the valve.  He flips on the breaker and turns the knob to the water on.  He takes his stuff back to his truck and then says "_does $30 sound okay?_"   Honestly here: do you think I gave a rat's ass as to whether or not that guy had your permission to be here?  He had mine.

If you think that people in my community would run the Hispanics out given this situation, you're dumber than a box of rocks.  Americans consume 80 percent of the world's opioid supply; we have more drug addicts than anywhere else.  Get those people's heads out of their ass, tell them there are jobs out there, and then get back to me.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 20, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



"_Because of the farm labor shortage, many farms across the country are relying more heavily on workers from Mexico, brought in through the H2A temporary visa program. The workers earn $12.75 an hour, at minimum, plus transportation and housing_."

'They're Scared': Immigration Fears Exacerbate Migrant Farmworker Shortage

Who in the Hell is stopping Americans from claiming these jobs?  It's a rhetorical question.  The government gives away welfare as if it were as simple as picking money out of thin air.


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## Daryl Hunt (Feb 21, 2019)

LilOlLady said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



You had a home and worked close to your home.  And you were paid more than minimum wage.  Allowances need to be made for those that come up from Mexico "Legally" through the guest worker program.  In lieu of a higher than minimum wage, other things can make up for that.  The problem is, the farmers have stopped giving those perks and still demand that they work for minimum wage.  Not going to happen.  Around here, housing doesn't happen either but the wages far exceed minimum wage for seasonal workers and they seem to be making a nice tidy profit.  And Whites ARE taking those jobs as well as Seasonal Mexican Workers on Green Cards.  The Mexicans on Green cards make Minimum Wage are are offered housing on the same Farm or Orchard.  The reason the higher wages for those that are legal is that they can't get enough legal immigrant workers so they have to pay a higher wage for locals.  But they end up with to entirely different pay scales and perks for both groups.  They would like to have one or the other but they can't get enough workers from either group so they need both.  Again, they forgot the method that used to used where they would send a bus to the border crossing and sponsor workers and then return them at the end of the season and pay them lower pay but give them perks to make up for it.  

By instagating this program again, more and more will show up at the border, be processed and then leave their families in Mexico and return to their families at the end of the season.  That takes care of the Mexicans.  But it doesn't take care of the ones coming up from further south.  That's an entirely different problem.  

The US worked with Mexico to get their manufacturing base up to a point where most Mexicans are offered jobs that enable them to at least make a living.  In fact, they have more jobs in areas than they have workers to do the job.  This is why the Mexican Government offers jobs to many of the people coming up from the southern countries.  We used a carrot and stick on Mexico and it paid off.  You do this and we give you X dollars for Foreign Aid or Economic Aid.  You don't do this and we don't.  

The method was cut under Trump since he claims it doesn't work and just wastes money.  It's a long term solution and time has to pass for it to work.  It took about 20 years.  You will notice that the trend of Mexican illegals went down year after year during that time. It wasn't a wall.  It was Mexico putting their people to work with enough pay to live.  He need to get that system back online for the other southern countries and be even more aggressive about it.  Let's face it, paying a few million if foreign aid to make a country self sufficient  and more Democratic is a lot cheaper than the"Claimed" Illegal Immigrant support we have now. It's no longer Mexicans that are the problem.


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## MaryL (Feb 24, 2019)

We don't need a border wall. nope. What we do Need, apparently escapes Trump. A national identity card. Tied to  DNA. Fingerprints, the whole nine yards. if you can't prove your status then you ...shh...cant get a job. Or housing, or exist here legally. And then the feds can legally remove funding to states that ignore enforcing immigration  laws. That would be the common sense way to approach this issue.


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## Slyhunter (Feb 24, 2019)

MaryL said:


> We don't need a border wall. nope. What we do Need, apparently escapes Trump. A national identity card. Tied to  DNA. Fingerprints, the whole nine yards. if you can't prove your status then you ...shh...cant get a job. Or housing, or exist here legally. And then the feds can legally remove funding to states that ignore enforcing immigration  laws. That would be the common sense way to approach this issue.


It'd have to be free or it will be ruled discriminatory.


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## MaryL (Feb 24, 2019)

Slyhunter said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > We don't need a border wall. nope. What we do Need, apparently escapes Trump. A national identity card. Tied to  DNA. Fingerprints, the whole nine yards. if you can't prove your status then you ...shh...cant get a job. Or housing, or exist here legally. And then the feds can legally remove funding to states that ignore enforcing immigration  laws. That would be the common sense way to approach this issue.
> ...


Laws inherently discriminate, that's their purpose.  Even on this board, you cant say certain words, because they are banned. I think it's fair to expect people that want to live here, be expected to accept legal immigration standards. And those that hire them, doubly so. The Constitution  says no one is above the law. Not even immigration law.    Sanctuary states violate the constitution,  thence are unconstitutional , aren't they? Is there a constitutional lawyer in the room?  Can states just ignore federal laws like this?


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## EvilCat Breath (Feb 24, 2019)

There is no longer a need for farm workers. 

New Harvesting Technology Brings Mechanization To Vegetable Growers


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## Faun (Feb 24, 2019)

Tipsycatlover said:


> There is no longer a need for farm workers.
> 
> New Harvesting Technology Brings Mechanization To Vegetable Growers


My lawn isn’t going to landscape itself.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 25, 2019)

MaryL said:


> We don't need a border wall. nope. What we do Need, apparently escapes Trump. A national identity card. Tied to  DNA. Fingerprints, the whole nine yards. if you can't prove your status then you ...shh...cant get a job. Or housing, or exist here legally. And then the feds can legally remove funding to states that ignore enforcing immigration  laws. That would be the common sense way to approach this issue.



LMFAO.  Did you think about that before posting it?  National ID?  What happens when YOU become the political minority and you get taken out on the basis of your race, religion, political ideology?  Might I quote the Constitution here?

"The right of the people to be *secure in their persons*, houses, *papers*, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Have you ever heard of a presumption of innocence?


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 25, 2019)

MaryL said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...




You are 100 percent wrong.  

What you want cannot be done by virtue of the Printz case.  Here is a little background for you:

Trump's Sloppy, Unconstitutional Order on 'Sanctuary Cities' - The Atlantic

Remember: when it comes to foreigners, the CONSTITUTION gives Congress very little in the ways of powers.  It states:

"Congress shall have the power ...To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization"  Article I  Section 8

Now let us speak English:

*Immigration* is the leaving of one's country to enter another for the purpose of *permanent residence

Naturalization *is the process of becoming a *citizen
*
If a foreigner enters a state to visit, engage in the free market or just work a job, under a *proper interpretation* of the Constitution, the immigration laws DO NOT APPLY.  All this Orwellian and draconian B.S. you're talking about sounds like Hitler's tattoo idea on steroids.  The Constitution gives no such authority to do what you want and states have rights too.


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## Porter Rockwell (Feb 25, 2019)

Tipsycatlover said:


> There is no longer a need for farm workers.
> 
> New Harvesting Technology Brings Mechanization To Vegetable Growers



There exists a need for handymen, people to do yard work, work in fast food, janitorial, and sales type of jobs where knowing different languages is necessary.

The small guy, the independent employer, cannot be denied the opportunity to hire foreign labor.  It is a violation of the 14th Amendment.  

If Americans want those jobs, go out there and get them.  Frankly, I get tired of advertising for handymen and no Americans apply.  Occasionally, Bubba and his gas guzzling beast gives me an "estimate" for $300 or more per hour for gigs that a trained monkey can do.  I offer DOUBLE what the guy who would actually do the job for (and collect his check from Bubba)  and people had rather work for minimum wage than use their entrepreneurial skills and help that segment of society that doesn't have a job that pays over $10 or $15 an hour.


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