# Stick vs. Automatic, Revisited



## DGS49 (May 29, 2017)

Since I first learned how to drive, I have always been a proponent of manual transmissions.  Our family car in the 60's was a Chevy sedan with a two-speed "Powerglide" transmission.  It was slow and inefficient.  It provided only two gears, ate up much of the car's limited power in a primitive torque converter, and it just bugged the hell out of me that when you were sitting at a stoplight, the transmission was always trying to push the car forward.  Even a three speed manual ("Three on the Tree") provided better performance, better fuel economy, and allowed use of the cars compression to control speeds on long downhills. 

Until recently, a well-driven stick shift provided measurably better performance than even a "good" automatic in a sports car, as well as better real-world fuel economy.  Again, the stick was superior.

I am now fortunate to be able to drive a "state of the art" 8-speed, dual clutch automatic transmission car, and although I still prefer my 6-speed 350Z, I think the rational reasons to drive a stick have basically faded away.  The fuel economy advantage of the stick is now almost theoretical.  There is very little slip in the transmission, and left in "ECON" mode, the car is almost always in the gear that provides best fuel economy.  My car actually shuts down at stoplights (something that I thought would be an irritation, but it turns out not to be), so the savings there is small but undeniable.

Performance wise, only a professional driver could match the performance of a modern automatic, especially when running in "SPORT" mode.

And you can't ignore the fact that the top-performing Mercedes', Porsche's, Ferrari's, and Jags are all sold with slushboxes, unless the buyer opts out and wants a stick.

So again, it is difficult to rationally make the case for a stick.  On a road course, I personally would rather choose which ratio to drive in at all times, as opposed to allowing the computer to make that choice.  And only the driver knows when he is approaching a hill, so he can get in front of the gear change and not have to wait until the car figures it out (if it actually does).

What about re-sale value?  Will the used car market four years out shun the Corvette, Porsche, or Beemer that has a stick?  What about Gen-X?  I grew up with a stick, but they did not.  Will any of them even consider a 7-speed Corvette or a 6-speed 911?

But I hate to make my own choices based on what "the next guy" might want when I go to sell.

All I can say is, I would still never buy a sports car with an automatic.  It's like buying a three-wheeled "motorcycle."  What's the point?


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## Iceweasel (May 29, 2017)

I started with manual shifts and was a fan of automatics a long time ago and didn't miss a clutch and shifting one bit. They are much more money to repair but I have never had to in 30 years.


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## strollingbones (May 29, 2017)

love a stick....but i am going out with next car...i will miss the control of a stick but damn the auto is so nice in the big towns


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## ricechickie (May 29, 2017)

I miss a stick shift, there's nothing better for control in snowy or icy conditions.

My car now has a manual option, but it's not the same.  Still, in bad weather, I use it.


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## MarathonMike (May 29, 2017)

I drove a stick about 20 years ago. Other than the fun aspect, there isn't much of a case for manual. I just bought my son a Mitsubishi Lancer with a CVT, Continuously Variable Transmission. It's getting about 30 mpg and has decent power.


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## Mr Natural (May 29, 2017)

Every car I've owned since 1968 has been a stick.

My next car (if there is one) will be an automatic.  As much fun as going through the gears is,  sometimes I just want to sit there and steer.


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## Billy_Kinetta (May 29, 2017)

I have one car with stick and one with auto.  One is for tear-assing around on nice days scaring Mini-Coopers and the other for suburban meandering.


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## Wry Catcher (May 29, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> Since I first learned how to drive, I have always been a proponent of manual transmissions.  Our family car in the 60's was a Chevy sedan with a two-speed "Powerglide" transmission.  It was slow and inefficient.  It provided only two gears, ate up much of the car's limited power in a primitive torque converter, and it just bugged the hell out of me that when you were sitting at a stoplight, the transmission was always trying to push the car forward.  Even a three speed manual ("Three on the Tree") provided better performance, better fuel economy, and allowed use of the cars compression to control speeds on long downhills.
> 
> Until recently, a well-driven stick shift provided measurably better performance than even a "good" automatic in a sports car, as well as better real-world fuel economy.  Again, the stick was superior.
> 
> ...



Control, the ability to double clutch into a curve and slow with compression, and then pull out of it with with the higher RPM's, in short, the fun of it.


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## jon_berzerk (May 29, 2017)

we have both 

the rv is auto 

the cruz is auto 

the cobalt is manual 

the dodge 2500 is manual 

the f150 is auto 

the dodge 1500 is auto


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## danielpalos (May 29, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> Since I first learned how to drive, I have always been a proponent of manual transmissions.  Our family car in the 60's was a Chevy sedan with a two-speed "Powerglide" transmission.  It was slow and inefficient.  It provided only two gears, ate up much of the car's limited power in a primitive torque converter, and it just bugged the hell out of me that when you were sitting at a stoplight, the transmission was always trying to push the car forward.  Even a three speed manual ("Three on the Tree") provided better performance, better fuel economy, and allowed use of the cars compression to control speeds on long downhills.
> 
> Until recently, a well-driven stick shift provided measurably better performance than even a "good" automatic in a sports car, as well as better real-world fuel economy.  Again, the stick was superior.
> 
> ...


I don't mind stick; but, prefer automatic in predominantly hilly areas.


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## featherlite (May 29, 2017)

I learned on an automatic, but my first car was manual...I had no idea how to drive a stick when I bought it. I remember my car hopping down the road a couple times as I was learning. lol
Automatic is more convenient, I miss driving a stick though.


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## DGS49 (Jun 8, 2017)

I "visited" a dealer in Erie yesterday that had two Subaru's SVX's for sale.  You may recall that this was a short-lived sporty 4-seater whose main attraction was the "window-within-a-window" design that was necessitated by the need to address toll booths.  The SVX was generally sold as AWD, and exclusively with an automatic transmission.

Both SVX's were in pristine condition, but one of them had been retrofitted with a 5-speed stick.  The salesman (not a technical guy) said that the parts had been lifted from a wrecked WRX.  This one also had a turbo kit installed, rendering a claimed 400hp.  For a Subaru enthusiast...what a car!


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## Sunni Man (Jun 8, 2017)

Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic.    .....


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## gipper (Jun 8, 2017)

Sunni Man said:


> Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic.    .....



The problem with automatic transmissions is they ultimately fail.  Where as a manual, will run forever.  I owned an Audi A8 that was an awesome car.  The auto trans puked at 225,000 miles, yet the car still looked pristine.  Had to sell it for salvage rather than pay thousands for a rebuilt tranny.  Made me sick.


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## gipper (Jun 8, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> I "visited" a dealer in Erie yesterday that had two Subaru's SVX's for sale.  You may recall that this was a short-lived sporty 4-seater whose main attraction was the "window-within-a-window" design that was necessitated by the need to address toll booths.  The SVX was generally sold as AWD, and exclusively with an automatic transmission.
> 
> Both SVX's were in pristine condition, but one of them had been retrofitted with a 5-speed stick.  The salesman (not a technical guy) said that the parts had been lifted from a wrecked WRX.  This one also had a turbo kit installed, rendering a claimed 400hp.  For a Subaru enthusiast...what a car!View attachment 131686


My son has a WRX.  The car is explosively fast.  Faster than an Audi S4 and provides very good fuel mileage, unlike the Audi.


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## blastoff (Jun 14, 2017)

The bride's cars are always automatic but I've never owned one for my use.  I'm stick all the way which will include a Mazda MX5 I'm getting soon.  Can't wait to work it out on our local road race course...zoooooom!


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## Jarlaxle (Jul 5, 2017)

gipper said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> > Stick cars are like a dinosaur today. The vast majority of people don't know how to drive one; and most new car models don't offer the manual option. Even the latest top of the line Audi sports car only comes in automatic.    .....
> ...


You bitch about 225,000 miles on a transmission? SERIOUSLY?!


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## gipper (Jul 5, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Sunni Man said:
> ...


You misunderstand.


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## Jarlaxle (Jul 5, 2017)

gipper said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...


No, I understand completely. You operate unconstrained by any facts whatsoever, therefore make ridiculous statements.


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## blastoff (Jul 5, 2017)

Just picked up my first 6-speed stick Friday.  The pattern's a bit tight so it's taking some getting used to.


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## gipper (Jul 5, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...


WTF.  Are you crazy?


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## Muhammed (Jul 5, 2017)

The two vehicles I drive the most are a mid 70s era Chevy truck with a manual transmission and an 80s era Dodge conversion van with an automatic. After a bit of experimentation I have the truck geared just the way I like it. The van is all about comfort and having a love nest on wheels.


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## DGS49 (Jul 7, 2017)

My wife recently purchased a new (demo) 3-series Beemer (330i X-Drive GT, to be specific).

The 4-banger turbo (248 HP) is coupled with an 8-speed automatic with manual shifting mode.  There are few situations that warrant moving to "Sport" or manual shifting.  Certainly, the computer can decide when is the best time to shift for hard acceleration.  A hard drive on a winding country road would be ideal for the manual-shifting/Sport option, but that doesn't come up much.

The relatively low compression and small displacement of the engine discourages using the engine to slow the car on long downhills - it really makes uncomfortable sounds when used in this way. 

Stick would be much more gooder.  Even my wife agrees.  I doubt that we could have found the same car with a stick.


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## blastoff (Aug 7, 2017)

danielpalos said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> > Since I first learned how to drive, I have always been a proponent of manual transmissions.  Our family car in the 60's was a Chevy sedan with a two-speed "Powerglide" transmission.  It was slow and inefficient.  It provided only two gears, ate up much of the car's limited power in a primitive torque converter, and it just bugged the hell out of me that when you were sitting at a stoplight, the transmission was always trying to push the car forward.  Even a three speed manual ("Three on the Tree") provided better performance, better fuel economy, and allowed use of the cars compression to control speeds on long downhills.
> ...


Just the opposite.  I love my MX 5s 6-speed manual on the hilly areas that are plentiful around here.  

Dunno how long this feature's been around but in mine it's called HLA, hill launch assist.  When stopped at a sign or light, either up or down hill, when you take your foot off the brake for the gas the car won't roll.  The brake stays engaged until you begin to release the clutch and get on the gas.  A very cool and much needed feature for stick shift.


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## Jarlaxle (Aug 8, 2017)

Not needed, or new: Studebaker had it in the 50s.


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## blastoff (Aug 8, 2017)

Jarlaxle said:


> Not needed, or new: Studebaker had it in the 50s.


But preferred, for me anyway.  Studes may have had it in the 50s, but I've owned a lot of stick cars over the years that didn't offer such a feature.


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## WinterBorn (Aug 11, 2017)

I love driving a stick when I get to actually DRIVE.   But living in Atlanta, the traffic is terrible.  I like an automatic when I'm in traffic.  I go to the gym for my leg workouts.


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## Slash (Aug 23, 2017)

I flip between.  I've got a truck with an automatic and had one with a manual in the past and especially when towing, love the automatic.  

Used to be stick shift only, but that was because you got more gears and unless you had a crapload of torque it performed a lot worse.  I'd still say in a sports car I'd prefer a stick but looking at myself I'm not even listening to that.  

I had a 2010 Camaro SS with an Automatic so the wife could also drive it (she can drive stick just not well), and got a Hellcat Charger last year which has that big automatic in it (4 doors honey it's practical).   Honestly I am starting to lean just a bit towards them as the technology improves.  

Still in cars that I've taken to the track (twisty ones) they've all had to be stick.  Miata, Mazdaspeed3, Integra's long ago, WRX..


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## AVISSSER (Sep 9, 2017)

DGS49 said:


> All I can say is, I would still never buy a sports car with an automatic. It's like buying a three-wheeled "motorcycle." What's the point?



That's the point of it all.


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