# How can there ever be peace here?



## MJB12741 (Mar 26, 2012)

I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etDb5tXPawc&feature=related]Palestinian Children Taught to Hate Jews - YouTube[/ame][/B]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 26, 2012)

How impossible it is for ANYONE or ANY NATION to negotiate a lasting peace with a people who are rewarded for death over life.  For those of you who condemn Israel, just think about it.




MJB12741 said:


> I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---
> 
> Palestinian Children Taught to Hate Jews - YouTube[/B]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 27, 2012)

What a shock it was to little Palestinian children when Farfur left them.  What ever happened to that rat?  Did the Zionists rub him out?


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

Muslimes are a peaceful people.  After all, islime is the religion of peace, right?

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri


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## MJB12741 (Mar 27, 2012)

History has proven that Golda Meir was so right when she said ---  "when the Palestinians learn to love their own children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace."


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> History has proven that Golda Meir was so right when she said ---  "when the Palestinians learn to love their own children more than they hate Israel, there will be peace."



*Burak Bekdil, Hurriyet, Turkey: "Why Golda Meir Was Right"*


> It has been more than two and a half years since Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo&#287;an told to Israeli President Shimon Peress face, You (Jews) know well how to kill. Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an has also declared more than a few times that the main obstacle to peace in this part of the world is Israel, once calling the Jewish state a festering boil in the Middle East that spreads hate and enmity. In this holy month of Ramadan full of blood on Muslim territories, lets try to identify who are the ones who know well how to kill.
> 
> As the Syrian death count clicks every day to come close to 2,000, the Turkish-Kurdish death count does not stop, already over 40,000 since 1984, both adding to the big pool of blood called the Middle East. Only during this Ramadan, the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKKs, death toll has reached 50 in this Muslim Kurds vs. Muslim Turks war. This excludes the PKK casualties in Turkey and in northern Iraq due to Turkish military retaliation since they are seldom accurately reported.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Mar 27, 2012)

What the Palestinians do to their own children in their indoctrination is truly unforgiveable.  No child deserves to prefer death over life.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

The Israelis celebrate life.  L'Chaim!  The Palestinians celebrate death.  Martyr's for Allah!  Seems to me both sides should be granted what they want & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.  





MJB12741 said:


> What the Palestinians do to their own children in their indoctrination is truly unforgiveable.  No child deserves to prefer death over life.


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## Douger (Mar 28, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrDPrG5lI2I]Are Jews gods chosen people? YOU DECIDE!!! - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The Israelis celebrate life.  L'Chaim!  The Palestinians celebrate death.  Martyr's for Allah!  Seems to me both sides should be granted what they want & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.
> 
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> 
> ...



Talmud: "Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."

Sahih Bukhari Hadeeth: The Prophet said... I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

LOL!  But of course.  72 virgins await them.  Viagra --- Don't leave this earth without it.





JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The Israelis celebrate life.  L'Chaim!  The Palestinians celebrate death.  Martyr's for Allah!  Seems to me both sides should be granted what they want & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.
> ...


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## Staidhup (Mar 28, 2012)

Got to love a religion that treats women like dogs, fights between themselves like dogs, values the sanctity of life as dirt, and demonstrates such a lack of compassion and respect for others. How can one expect peace in a region that is populated and controlled by religious zealots that have been at each others throats for centuries regarding differences in the interpretation of a religious scripture they both claim to own and follow? Talk about being stuck in a feudalistic dark age society with no way or will to find a way out. I can't see peace in this region of the world, nope, never, a pipe dream. To think this is the utopia Muhammad had in mind.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> LOL!  But of course.  72 virgins await them.  Viagra --- Don't leave this earth without it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



72 whores in that bordello in the sky and a few goats and camels, too.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


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## uscitizen (Mar 28, 2012)

And Israel fires US built cluster miunitions into areas where those children live.
The unexploded muintions have killed and maimed many Pali children when they see the shiny objects and pick them up.

This thing is not all one sided.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> And Israel fires US built cluster miunitions into areas where those children live.
> The unexploded muintions have killed and maimed many Pali children when they see the shiny objects and pick them up.
> 
> This thing is not all one sided.



Pallies love their children as per the religion of death islime. 

*"Palestinian Children Created To Fertilize the Land With their Blood"*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1kIYk22d8]"PALESTINIAN KIDS ARE "FERTILIZER" CREATED TO SATURATE OUR PURE LAND WITH THEIR BLOOD" FATAH - YouTube[/ame]

*"We Desire Death Like You Desire Life"*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg]Hamas - "We desire death like you desire life" - YouTube[/ame]


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## uscitizen (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes there are those like you on the other side and that is why we have these problems.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Yes there are those like you on the other side and that is why we have these problems.



Pallies love their children as per the tradition of honor killing in the religion of peace 



> A 27-year-old mother of five was bludgeoned to death with an iron chain by her father last week in Gaza in what human rights groups report was an honor killing.
> 
> According to police in Gaza, the father, Jawdat al-Najar, heard his daughter Fadia, who had divorced in 2005, speaking on the phone with a man. He believed she was having a relationship with him. Police say al-Najar became enraged and beat her to death; her body was brought to a hospital where officials said she died of a skull fracture
> 
> ...


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## uscitizen (Mar 28, 2012)

Fear and hatred is repaid in kind.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Fear and hatred is repaid in kind.



Killing your own children and grandchildren is sanctioned in the religion of peace 

Sharia Law: Who Is Subject To Retaliation For Injurious Crimes


> Retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right.
> 
> *The following are not subject to retaliation...
> A father or mother (or their father and mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring *



*Palesteeenian Mother Strangles Daughter In Honor Killing* 


> A Palestinian mother waited for her 16-year-old daughter to go to bed, tied a rope around her neck and strangled her to death. The woman murdered her own daughter after neighbours lied to her that the girl had an affair with their son.
> 
> Just before the girl was buried, her aging grandmother (father&#8217;s mother), swayed slowly towards the coffin with tears rolling on her wrinkled skin, pulled out the girl&#8217;s hair and tied a white tape around it.
> 
> ...


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## ima (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---



You ever ask yourself why they do it?


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---
> ...



Islime is why they do it.

Quran 9:29... 


> Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.



Now, even you know


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---
> 
> Palestinian Children Taught to Hate Jews - YouTube[/B]


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,463 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)







Israelis and Palestinians Killed
September 29, 2000 - Present






1,084 Israelis and at least 6,430 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)





Israelis and Palestinians Injured
September 29, 2000 - Present




9,226 Israelis and 45,041 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information.)







Daily U.S. Military Aid to Israel and the Palestinians
Fiscal Year 2011






During Fiscal Year 2011, the U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians. (View Sources & More Information)





Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees






0 Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,300 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Sources & More Information)





Demolitions of Israeli and Palestinian Homes
1967 - Present




0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 24,813 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967. (View Sources & More Information)







Israeli and Palestinian Unemployment Rates






The Israeli unemployment rate is 6.4%, while the Palestinian unemployment in the West Bank is 16.5% and 40% in Gaza. (View Sources & More Information)





Current Illegal Settlements on the Other&#8217;s Land




Israel currently has 236 Jewish-only settlements and &#8216;outposts&#8217; built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land. (View Sources & More Information)

If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

Barack Obama...


> The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice.
> 
> Let's be honest: Israel is surrounded by neighbors that have waged repeated wars against it. Israel's citizens have been killed by rockets fired at their houses and suicide bombs on their buses. Israel's children come of age knowing that throughout the region, other children are taught to hate them. Israel, a small country of less than eight million people, looks out at a world where leaders of much larger nations threaten to wipe it off of the map. These facts cannot be denied.
> Remarks by President Obama in Address to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House





> My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but allah, we will chase you everywhere  We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no better blood than the blood of the Jews.  We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood, we will not rest until you leave the Muslim countries.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleFpY402vM]Palestinian - Terrorism - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

So then if the Palestinian squatters killed more Israeli's than the other way around would you be as sympatheic to the Israelis?  





Truthseeker420 said:


> 124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,463 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)
> 
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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

> ifamericansknew



Americans know...

Pallies Celebrate 9/11
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k]Palestinians celebrating the fall of the twin towers on 911 - YouTube[/ame]

Pallies Call For Death of all Americans
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo]Islam: Oh Allah - Kill all Jews and Americans! - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes!  Those Zionists made them do it.  Who in their right mind makes peace offerings to Palestinians, builds a security fence & concedes land to Palestinians so they can stay?  Face it, not a single surrouding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.  And then Israel wonders WHY the Palestinians prefer death over life & reward Israel with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Don't that beat all?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by ima
> You ever ask yourself why they do it?



They read the Quran?

Quran 60:4... 


> We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"





> My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but allah, we will chase you everywhere  We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no better blood than the blood of the Jews.  We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood, we will not rest until you leave the Muslim countries.


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## ima (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes!  Those Zionists made them do it.  Who in their right mind makes peace offerings to Palestinians, builds a security fence & concedes land to Palestinians so they can stay?  Face it, not a single surrouding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.  And then Israel wonders WHY the Palestinians prefer death over life & reward Israel with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Don't that beat all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They don't want to go somewhere else, they want to go home.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes!  Those Zionists made them do it.  Who in their right mind makes peace offerings to Palestinians, builds a security fence & concedes land to Palestinians so they can stay?  Face it, not a single surrouding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.  And then Israel wonders WHY the Palestinians prefer death over life & reward Israel with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Don't that beat all?
> ...



Home for Arabs would be Arabia and other Arab shitholes?  Too complex for you?  Last I checked, Israel was a Hebrew-based name.

*Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939*


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> http://us.macmillan.com/churchillandthejews/MartinGilbert


*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. &#8220;Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes!  Those Zionists made them do it.  Who in their right mind makes peace offerings to Palestinians, builds a security fence & concedes land to Palestinians so they can stay?  Face it, not a single surrouding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.  And then Israel wonders WHY the Palestinians prefer death over life & reward Israel with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Don't that beat all?
> ...



If it were true that the so called refugees just want to go to Israel, they why haven't they tried to?  They always had the right to apply to the Israeli government as individuals to emigrate to Israel.  Israel's immigration laws for non Jews are similar to the US.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

Can anyone name the alleged country of the alleged land of the alleged palesteenians?

Can't be palestine since the Romans renamed Israel palestine during the Roman Empire?

And, what was the name of the alleged capital of the alleged country of the alleged palesteenians?

Can't be Jerusalem since the Jewish King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago.


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## Douger (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---


No need to teach them anything. It happens all by itself. Antisemitism is a disease-----you catch it from dealing with Jews.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

Very good Ima.  Finally you are beginning to get it.  And I too want the Palestinians to be able to go home.  So what can we do to find an incentive to offer the surrouding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes!  Those Zionists made them do it.  Who in their right mind makes peace offerings to Palestinians, builds a security fence & concedes land to Palestinians so they can stay?  Face it, not a single surrouding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever treated them like Israel does.  And then Israel wonders WHY the Palestinians prefer death over life & reward Israel with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Don't that beat all?
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

Douger said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> 
> > I find it difficult to support or even feel any compassion whatsoever for a people who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing us infidels to honor God & educate their next generations like this ---
> ...



*DOUGER THE SAD IRISH DRUNK* 








Remember your New Year's resolution...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sf7SJMAlSs]Amy Winehouse - REHAB (live) - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

Hmmm.  "Irish Drunk."  I knew one of those on a previous board.  Sure did love to play with that guy.  Is it possible God has once again answered my prayers to bring him back to me again?




JStone said:


> Douger said:
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> > MJB12741 said:
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## ima (Mar 29, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Very good Ima.  Finally you are beginning to get it.  And I too want the Palestinians to be able to go home.  So what can we do to find an incentive to offer the surrouding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice try. Home as in: the land their families owned pre-1947.


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## JStone (Mar 29, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Very good Ima.  Finally you are beginning to get it.  And I too want the Palestinians to be able to go home.  So what can we do to find an incentive to offer the surrouding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return?
> ...



Jews have owned the land of Israel dating back 3000 years.

*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


 
*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible&#39;s Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 29, 2012)

Huh???  Are you referring to the land they squatted on in Israel? 




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Very good Ima.  Finally you are beginning to get it.  And I too want the Palestinians to be able to go home.  So what can we do to find an incentive to offer the surrouding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return?
> ...


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## ima (Mar 29, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Huh???  Are you referring to the land they squatted on in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Israel didn't exist before 1947, so that's a no.


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## JStone (Mar 29, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Huh???  Are you referring to the land they squatted on in Israel?
> ...



IMA DUNCE 







*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> 
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



*Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel * Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah


> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> 
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel*


> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
> 
> The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press


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## MJB12741 (Mar 29, 2012)

Oh now I get it.  There was no Israel until 1947.  Thats when they became the Israelites, right Ima?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Huh???  Are you referring to the land they squatted on in Israel?
> ...


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## ima (Mar 29, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh now I get it.  There was no Israel until 1947.  Thats when they became the Israelites, right Ima?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's irrelevant. Just because Jews called themselves after a tribe that was there a few thousand years ago or whatever, doesn't prove a connection. How about showing me a map of Israel's borders from between say, 1900 and 1940?


----------



## Ropey (Mar 29, 2012)

You want to go back to 1947?  Let's go back further then. 



> The University of Haifa has deciphered the most ancient Hebrew writing, which pushes the date of Jewish writing abilities back to 400 years before the previous estimate. The 10th century BCE inscription on potsherd closely parallels the biblical commandment to provide justice to widows and orphans.
> 
> The text is nothing short of astonishing:
> You shall not do [it], but worship the [Lord].
> ...



Jewish History in Israel

Israeli News: Jews wrote 3,000 years ago


----------



## ima (Mar 29, 2012)

Ropey said:


> You want to go back to 1947?  Let's go back further then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not disputing that Jews where there 2000 or 3000 years ago, or whatever... But you're all arguing that Israel has been around continuously for that long. It hasn't. Otherwise, show me a map of Israel in say, 1915.


----------



## JStone (Mar 29, 2012)

ima said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > You want to go back to 1947?  Let's go back further then.
> ...



IMA Dunce





Dunce, can you name one other nation established in Israel in the past 3000 years, except for the Jewish nation?  No,  I didn't think so.

Go sit in the dunce's corner.


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Even the ancient Egyptian Merneptah Stele proves the existence of ancient Israel.

What has archaeology taught us about the origins of Israel? (the Merneptah Stela)


----------



## JStone (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Even the ancient Egyptian Merneptah Stele proves the existence of ancient Israel.
> 
> What has archaeology taught us about the origins of Israel? (the Merneptah Stela)



PBS Nova...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible&#39;s Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

I have learned from Israel's enemies that the Bible is no proof of ancient Israel.  "The Bible is just a book of fairy tales, first written by Jews & then by Christians."  But how do they get around the proof provided by the ancient Egyptian Merneptah Stele?  Damn those Egyptians!


----------



## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Even the ancient Egyptian Merneptah Stele proves the existence of ancient Israel.
> 
> What has archaeology taught us about the origins of Israel? (the Merneptah Stela)



I'm not disputing that it was around a long time ago. I'm saying that Israel didn't exist in 1915, or did it? You got a map?
So it's like saying the US landmass completely belongs to some descendants of the nomadic tribe that was first here because they were here 7000 years ago. That's irrelevant to what's going on in recent history. I know you guys don't think so because that's your only argument. So hang on to it tightly!


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Well now, lets be rational unbiased people & figure this land issue out together as to who is stealing who's land.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Even the ancient Egyptian Merneptah Stele proves the existence of ancient Israel.
> ...


----------



## JStone (Mar 30, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Even the ancient Egyptian Merneptah Stele proves the existence of ancient Israel.
> ...


IMA DUNCE






*Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem* 

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert&#39;sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Gosh I wonder why Ima seems to have just disappeared?





MJB12741 said:


> Well now, lets be rational unbiased people & figure this land issue out together as to who is stealing who's land.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## docmauser1 (Mar 30, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> _And Israel fires US built cluster miunitions into areas where those children live. The unexploded muintions have killed and maimed many Pali children when they see the shiny objects and pick them up._


Oh, that's funny. Who made that up?


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Ya gotta love Israel's enemies for their great sense of humor.  Heh Heh.




docmauser1 said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > _And Israel fires US built cluster miunitions into areas where those children live. The unexploded muintions have killed and maimed many Pali children when they see the shiny objects and pick them up._
> ...


----------



## Ariux (Mar 30, 2012)

American textbooks teach students to hate whites.  So what if PA schools don't teach zionist propaganda, that's their business.


----------



## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Gosh I wonder why Ima seems to have just disappeared?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I went looking for a map of israel in 1915. I couldn't find one. Now why is that?


----------



## docmauser1 (Mar 30, 2012)

Douger said:


> _Are Jews gods chosen people? - YouTube_


Of course, they are! Otherwise people would be obsessing themselves with getting a life (and a job) instead of making OCS toobz, of course.


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Beats me.  Let me see now, where is my map of Palestine in 1915?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh I wonder why Ima seems to have just disappeared?
> ...


----------



## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Beats me.  Let me see now, where is my map of Palestine in 1915?
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...



lol. But I never said that Palestine has ever existed.


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Hey, at least we are having fun.  How's about we get together & go to a travel agent to purchase airline tickets to PALESTINE?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Beats me.  Let me see now, where is my map of Palestine in 1915?
> ...


----------



## docmauser1 (Mar 30, 2012)

ima said:


> _Nice try. Home as in: the land their families owned pre-1947._


It's highly improbable those major illegal arab immigrants owned much of anything, if any at all, both, in their respective "homes", they came from, and in the british mandate they came to in obscene numbers, of course.


----------



## docmauser1 (Mar 30, 2012)

Ariux said:


> _American textbooks teach students to hate whites.  So what if PA schools don't teach zionist propaganda, that's their business._


Ah, so, what propaganda do they teach?


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Lets all join together to start a Palestinian Olympics where they all line up & pull their pins to see who can scatter their body parts the furthest.  Allah Akbar!


----------



## ima (Mar 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hey, at least we are having fun.  How's about we get together & go to a travel agent to purchase airline tickets to PALESTINE?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, it's on my no-fly zone (along with Israel, too dangerous).


----------



## Ropey (Mar 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Lets all join together to start a Palestinian Olympics where they all line up & pull their pins to see who can scatter their body parts the furthest.  Allah Akbar!



Jews are busy creating.



> Exodus 28:36 - And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD. (Isaiah 49:16, Haggai 2:23: Zerubbabel: "scattered to Babylon"; Shealtiel: "whom I have asked for from God"; Psalm 2:8, Isaiah 53:12)
> 
> Exodus 39:30 - And they made the plate of the holy crown of pure gold, and wrote upon it a writing, like to the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
> 
> ...



We were chosen to create.  Some were chosen to destroy.  It's all known.


----------



## JStone (Mar 31, 2012)

Warren Buffett


> If you go to the Middle East looking for oil, you don't need to stop in Israel.  But, if you're looking for brains, for energy, for integrity, for imagination, it's the only stop you need to make


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbX60Pktzsk]Warren Buffet on Israel - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnC0vDx048]Innovation at Google's R&D Center in Israel - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 31, 2012)

LOL!  Reminds me of what Golda Meir once said. 

Moses dragged us through the desert for 40 years only to lead us to one place in all of the Middle East that has no oil.





JStone said:


> Warren Buffett
> 
> 
> > If you go to the Middle East looking for oil, you don't need to stop in Israel.  But, if you're looking for brains, for energy, for integrity, for imagination, it's the only stop you need to make
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> LOL!  Reminds me of what Golda Meir once said.
> 
> Moses dragged us through the desert for 40 years only to lead us to one place in all of the Middle East that has no oil.
> 
> ...


She could have continued the statement with: "And then we found Boca Raton."


----------



## ima (Apr 1, 2012)

Ropey said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets all join together to start a Palestinian Olympics where they all line up & pull their pins to see who can scatter their body parts the furthest.  Allah Akbar!
> ...



Sorry, but the bible is all made up bullshit.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 1, 2012)

How do you like that you Christians & Jews?  "The Bible is all made up bullshit."  And if you don't believe it, just ask Ima.  Heh Heh.




ima said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 1, 2012)

Seriously, where would we go for fun & laughs if Ima ever leaves us?





MJB12741 said:


> How do you like that you Christians & Jews?  "The Bible is all made up bullshit."  And if you don't believe it, just ask Ima.  Heh Heh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 1, 2012)

I think Jos needs to send Ima a toilet paper engine like he sent to Tinmore.


----------



## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

Ok, this should be interesting, give me one big event in the bible that's true. And I'm not talking about such and such city existed, I mean, the Ark, the world made in 7 days, the parting of the red sea, the resurrection... The big stuff. 
You can give me proof from other religions too, I'm just not all that familiar with "the big stuff" in other religions. There's magic carpets in Islam, what else?


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 2, 2012)

ima said:


> Ok, this should be interesting, give me one big event in the bible that's true. And I'm not talking about such and such city existed, I mean, the Ark, the world made in 7 days, the parting of the red sea, the resurrection... The big stuff.
> You can give me proof from other religions too, I'm just not all that familiar with "the big stuff" in other religions. There's magic carpets in Islam, what else?


Genesis 1:1 comes to mind. Start there and work your way forward. With your intellect you should be able to speed read the entire Bible in....oh, say 15 years. Git er done.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 2, 2012)

No justice - no peace.


----------



## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, this should be interesting, give me one big event in the bible that's true. And I'm not talking about such and such city existed, I mean, the Ark, the world made in 7 days, the parting of the red sea, the resurrection... The big stuff.
> ...



What? The world was made in 7 days? Eve was made from one of Adam's ribs? Which part? Examples please. With actual proof backing up your examples please. Good luck.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 2, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


You don't qualify to grok the proof, infidel.


----------



## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



If you have nothing you should just stfu and you won't look too dumb for believing in a book of fiction.


----------



## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



IMA DUNCE






*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel...
> PBS - Heritage



*Harvard Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> 
> 
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



*Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel * Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah


> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> 
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel*


> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
> The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press


----------



## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

JStone, just curious, do you even know what we're talking about?


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, this should be interesting, give me one big event in the bible that's true. And I'm not talking about such and such city existed, I mean, the Ark, the world made in 7 days, the parting of the red sea, the resurrection... The big stuff.
> ...


Ima loves my posts too. He is a great enough critic to write for the NY Times. So articulate!

 Today, 11:12 AM  
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New reputation! 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, you have received 0 reputation points from ima.
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go fuck your wife through a hole in a sheet, that\'s how your god wants it done.

Regards,
ima

Note: This is an automated message.


----------



## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



muslimes get off on beating their wives as per the benificent allah and religion of peace.  What do you say to a muslima with two black eyes? Nothing, you already told her, twice 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efktSi0MiIY]Palestinian cleric: How to gently beat your wife - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Nice try, you have nothing so you make shit up.


----------



## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Muslimes have made peace with animals  They even have make-up sex with them 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos (Apr 2, 2012)

> Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
> 
> Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
> 
> ...


Tidbits From The Talmud


----------



## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

Talmud, Tractate Yebamoth, 33b...


> The seduction of a minor is deemed to be an outrage



Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad... 


> Muhammad [53 years old] married &#8216;A&#8217;isha in Mecca when she was a child of six and lived with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the apostle gave her four hundred dirhams.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 2, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


What is made up, Bro?


----------



## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> What is made up, Bro?


The Bible, the Torah and the Koran.
I especially like the one about how Noah built a boat big enough for all the millions of species and food for 40 days because his god is such a swell guy, he drowned everything else, then I guess drank the water back up.


----------



## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > What is made up, Bro?
> ...



IMA DUNCE







*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> 
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 2, 2012)

So, what exactly is your point Ima?  What does it matter if the Bible is for real or not?  Either way, the world situation is what it is.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 2, 2012)

Can you image the daily suffering of Israel's enemies here in the USA with all those Zionists out there? Pour souls. They need to learn to look at the bright side. Long after they are dead & gone, Israel will still be thriving --- and they won't have to suffer over it anymore.


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


> _I especially like the one about how Noah built a boat big enough for all the millions of species and food for 40 days because his god is such a swell guy, he drowned everything else, then I guess drank the water back up._


Funny drivel. But the funniest drivel so far comes from so-called Dr. Omar Jaara, a so-called lecturer of the so-called Al Najah university in so-called Nablus, which is, of course, jewish Shechem. The idiot declared that "Moses was a Muslim who led Palestinian Muslims out of Egypt and liberated Palestine". See, it isn't at all surprising palistanians are such screwups.


----------



## eots (Apr 3, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtSC4bDast8]Jew Scream Remix - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So, what exactly is your point Ima?  What does it matter if the Bible is for real or not?  Either way, the world situation is what it is.



When I said that the bible was all made up bullshit, you're 2 responses were: "How do you like that you Christians & Jews? "The Bible is all made up bullshit." And if you don't believe it, just ask Ima. Heh Heh." and "Seriously, where would we go for fun & laughs if Ima ever leaves us?", implying that you think that I'm wrong about the bible being a load of smelly turds.

I was just asking you to back up your statements with real evidence that I was wrong, and you couldn't. That's all.


----------



## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So, what exactly is your point Ima?  What does it matter if the Bible is for real or not?  Either way, the world situation is what it is.
> ...



IMA DUNCE







*Hebrew Bible, 2 Kings 3*


> Now, Mesha king of Moab, was a sheep breeder who used to pay the king of Israel one hundred thousand lambs and the wool of one hundred thousand rams.  But when Ahab died, the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel


 
*Louve, Paris: The Mesha Stele [ca. 830 BCE]*


> The stele of King Mesha constitutes one of the most important direct accounts of the history of the world that is related in the Bible. The inscription pays tribute to the sovereign, celebrating his great building works and victories over the kingdom of Israel during the reign of Ahab, son of Omri. The mention of "Israel" is its earliest known written occurence.
> The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris


 




*Mesha Stele Inscription*...


> I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, the king of Moab.  My father reigned over Moab for thirty years, and I reigned after my father. And I made this high-place for Chemosh [national god] in Qarcho.because he has delivered me from all kings, and because he has made me triumph over all my enemies.
> 
> *Omri was the king of Israel, and he humbled Moab for many years.  And the king of Israel had built Yahaz, and he stayed there throughout his campaign against me; and Chemosh drove him away before my face.*


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Mesha Stele--Israel * 


> Mesha ruled Moab, east of the Dead Sea, during the ninth century BCE.  Mesha recounts his principal achievements as king. The most important of these was his recovery from Israel of Moabite lands north of the Arnon River.
> 
> *There is also a measure of bombast: Mesha proclaims that "Israel perished utterly forever," which certainly was not the case, though in one town alone he says he slaughtered seven thousand Israelite "men, boys, women, girls and concubines" in devotion to Ashtar-Chemosh.
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 3, 2012)

Sorry I don't know how to dumb down the question any further than to again ask you what does it matter if the Bible is or is not for real?  With or without the Bible, the world situation IS WHAT IT IS.





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So, what exactly is your point Ima?  What does it matter if the Bible is for real or not?  Either way, the world situation is what it is.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Sorry I don't know how to dumb down the question any further than to again ask you what does it matter if the Bible is or is not for real?  With or without the Bible, the world situation IS WHAT IT IS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My point is that you're an imbecile for thinking that the bible is real.

Why does it matter? Because all of the troubles in the Middle East stem from retarded religious books like that.


----------



## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry I don't know how to dumb down the question any further than to again ask you what does it matter if the Bible is or is not for real?  With or without the Bible, the world situation IS WHAT IT IS.
> ...



IMA DUNCE






*Hebrew Bible, 1 Kings, Omri King of Israel  *


> Then the people of Israel were split into two factions; half supported Tibni son of Ginath for king, and the other half supported Omri. But Omri&#8217;s followers proved stronger than those of Tibni son of Ginath. So Tibni died and Omri became king. In the thirty-first year of Asa king of Judah, Omri became king of Israel, and he reigned twelve years, six of them in Tirzah.  He bought the hill of Samaria from Shemer for two talents of silver and built a city on the hill, calling it Samaria, after Shemer, the name of the former owner of the hill.



*Louve, Paris: The Mesha Stele [ca. 830 BCE]*


> The stele of King Mesha constitutes one of the most important direct accounts of the history of the world that is related in the Bible. The inscription pays tribute to the sovereign, celebrating his great building works and victories over the kingdom of Israel during the reign of Ahab, son of Omri. The mention of "Israel" is its earliest known written occurence.
> The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris


 




*Mesha Stele Inscription...*


> I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, the king of Moab.  My father reigned over Moab for thirty years, and I reigned after my father. And I made this high-place for Chemosh [national god] in Qarcho.because he has delivered me from all kings, and because he has made me triumph over all my enemies.
> 
> *Omri was the king of Israel, and he humbled Moab for many years.  And the king of Israel had built Yahaz, and he stayed there throughout his campaign against me; and Chemosh drove him away before my face.*


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Mesha Stele--Israel * 


> Mesha ruled Moab, east of the Dead Sea, during the ninth century BCE.  Mesha recounts his principal achievements as king. The most important of these was his recovery from Israel of Moabite lands north of the Arnon River.
> 
> *There is also a measure of bombast: Mesha proclaims that "Israel perished utterly forever," which certainly was not the case, though in one town alone he says he slaughtered seven thousand Israelite "men, boys, women, girls and concubines" in devotion to Ashtar-Chemosh.
> 
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

JStone, wtf? Is this supposed to be proof of the veracity of the bible? Because somewhere else, I actually read a post of yours that made sense that wasn't a copy&paste drivel, you should keep that up, this shit is pointless.


----------



## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


> JStone, wtf? Is this supposed to be proof of the veracity of the bible? Because somewhere else, I actually read a post of yours that made sense that wasn't a copy&paste drivel, you should keep that up, this shit is pointless.



You're allowed to be dumb.  It's the only thing you're good at 

Hebrew Bible, 2 Kings 3


> Now, Mesha king of Moab, was a sheep breeder who used to pay the king of Israel one hundred thousand lambs and the wool of one hundred thousand rams.  But when Ahab died, the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel


 
Louve, Paris: The Mesha Stele [ca. 830 BCE]


> The stele of King Mesha constitutes one of the most important direct accounts of the history of the world that is related in the Bible. The inscription pays tribute to the sovereign, celebrating his great building works and victories over the kingdom of Israel during the reign of Ahab, son of Omri. The mention of "Israel" is its earliest known written occurence.
> The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris


 




Mesha Stele Inscription...


> I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, the king of Moab.  My father reigned over Moab for thirty years, and I reigned after my father. And I made this high-place for Chemosh [national god] in Qarcho.because he has delivered me from all kings, and because he has made me triumph over all my enemies.
> 
> *Omri was the king of Israel, and he humbled Moab for many years.  And the king of Israel had built Yahaz, and he stayed there throughout his campaign against me; and Chemosh drove him away before my face.*


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Mesha Stele--Israel * 


> Mesha ruled Moab, east of the Dead Sea, during the ninth century BCE.  Mesha recounts his principal achievements as king. The most important of these was his recovery from Israel of Moabite lands north of the Arnon River.
> 
> *There is also a measure of bombast: Mesha proclaims that "Israel perished utterly forever," which certainly was not the case, though in one town alone he says he slaughtered seven thousand Israelite "men, boys, women, girls and concubines" in devotion to Ashtar-Chemosh.
> 
> ...


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

Ok, I didn't understand your post the first time and ask you to explain and you just repost the same thing? Oh well, I tried.


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

Like wtf does this mean? And what is your point with this? 

"Now, Mesha king of Moab, was a sheep breeder who used to pay the king of Israel one hundred thousand lambs and the wool of one hundred thousand rams. But when Ahab died, the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel"


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## MJB12741 (Apr 3, 2012)

Ok Ima, lets try this to dumb it down even more for you to understand.  The Bible is a book of fairy tales, first written by Jews & then by Christians.  Therefore, the Bible is not relevant to ANYTHING.  So what has changed now that we learned this?




JStone said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > JStone, wtf? Is this supposed to be proof of the veracity of the bible? Because somewhere else, I actually read a post of yours that made sense that wasn't a copy&paste drivel, you should keep that up, this shit is pointless.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 4, 2012)

So MJB, why were you riding me for saying that if you agree?
because you're


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## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

Because you make no sense at all.  So tell us which life form is lower?  Palestinians who kill even their own kind?  Or roaches that don't?  Oh, & you won't need to reference the Bible to answer the question.  Get it yet? 






ima said:


> So MJB, why were you riding me for saying that if you agree?
> because you're


----------



## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Because you make no sense at all.  So tell us which life form is lower?  Palestinians who kill even their own kind?  Or roaches that don't?  Oh, & you won't need to reference the Bible to answer the question.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, to be fair, they do know how to keep their disobedient wives in line 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efktSi0MiIY]Palestinian cleric: How to gently beat your wife - YouTube[/ame]


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## ima (Apr 4, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Because you make no sense at all.  So tell us which life form is lower?  Palestinians who kill even their own kind?  Or roaches that don't?  Oh, & you won't need to reference the Bible to answer the question.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Last year, 10,000 Americans were killed by other Americans with guns. In the US. And Israelis have been known to kill stone throwers, among others. So what's your point again?


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## Ropey (Apr 4, 2012)

> Israelis have been known to kill stone throwers, among others. So what's your point again?



The point I make is that it's not all that smart to bring rocks to a gun fight.  You can piss of the guys with guns and yes, rocks hurt. Rubber bullets can kill and so can water cannons.

But they still come and throw rocks and take pictures of the results.  D'oh...


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## ima (Apr 4, 2012)

Ropey said:


> > Israelis have been known to kill stone throwers, among others. So what's your point again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most civilized countries use tear gas on stone throwers/protesters, or the riot police go and rough them up a little. Why do they shoot them? it's only rocks and kids, sheesh.


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## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

ima said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > > Israelis have been known to kill stone throwers, among others. So what's your point again?
> ...


IMA DUNCE









> My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but allah, we will chase you everywhere  We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no better blood than the blood of the Jews.  We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood, we will not rest until you leave the Muslim countries.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleFpY402vM]Palestinian - Terrorism - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

Ropey makes good sense.  You don't attack an enemy with rocks or AK 47's who can wipe you & your people off the face of the earth.





Ropey said:


> > Israelis have been known to kill stone throwers, among others. So what's your point again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## pbel (Apr 4, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Because you make no sense at all.  So tell us which life form is lower?  Palestinians who kill even their own kind?  Or roaches that don't?  Oh, & you won't need to reference the Bible to answer the question.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



MJ, if I've told you once....

The ME is not America or even Western in its Theology...This War will never end in the defeat of Islam...military power is useless against ideas and beliefs, especially Religion...

You a Jew, despite all the hate and holocausts have kept your idenity with pride. Israel or the West will never cower Islam...in fact it is the largest religion and growing.

The way to peace is through the Palestinians...1.Share Jerusalem...2.renogotiate the 67 borders with land swaps....3. Trade with the Nation of Palestine and help make it prosperous.

Gain acceptance to the neighborhood, and make peace with the Arab League as they offered in 2002. Anything else is a repeat of history.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

Israel's greatest mistake was to share Jerusalem with the Palestinians to begin with & now to make peace offerings to them, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can stay in Israel.  No wonder Israel is in an endless conflict with Palestinians.  Face it Pbel, no surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever made Israel's mistakes in dealing with them.  Shame on Israel.  This entire Zionist agenda has to go.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!




pbel said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Because you make no sense at all.  So tell us which life form is lower?  Palestinians who kill even their own kind?  Or roaches that don't?  Oh, & you won't need to reference the Bible to answer the question.  Get it yet?
> ...


----------



## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

pbel said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Because you make no sense at all.  So tell us which life form is lower?  Palestinians who kill even their own kind?  Or roaches that don't?  Oh, & you won't need to reference the Bible to answer the question.  Get it yet?
> ...



Islam is doomed.  Muslimes are the cockroaches of humanity--Many of them but useless.

*The Economist Magazine: Arab World Self-Doomed To Failure*


> WHAT went wrong with the Arab world? Why is it so stuck behind the times? It is not an obviously unlucky region. Fatly endowed with oil, and with its people sharing a rich cultural, religious and linguistic heritage, it is faced neither with endemic poverty nor with ethnic conflict. But, with barely an exception, its autocratic rulers, whether presidents or kings, give up their authority only when they die; its elections are a sick joke; half its people are treated as lesser legal and economic beings, and more than half its young, burdened by joblessness and stifled by conservative religious tradition, are said to want to get out of the place as soon as they can.
> 
> One in five Arabs still live on less than $2 a day. And, over the past 20 years, growth in income per head, at an annual rate of 0.5%, was lower than anywhere else in the world except sub-Saharan Africa. At this rate, it will take the average Arab 140 years to double his income, a target that some regions are set to reach in less than ten years. Stagnant growth, together with a fast-rising population, means vanishing jobs. Around 12m people, or 15% of the labour force, are already unemployed, and on present trends the number could rise to 25m by 2010.
> 
> ...


----------



## pbel (Apr 4, 2012)

JStone said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



The Economist would be correct unless something fundamenthal changed: To wit the Arab Spring is a result  of Arab Dictators and Kings who collude with the West and Israel to keep the masses down.

The begining. Give it 50 years, their economies will awaken like China who was just as backward economically only 50 years ago.


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## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

pbel said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



Oil is the only thing keeping the Arab Muslime worlds afloat and its a natural resource stolen from the ground, it's not manufactured because they make nothing with global value.  They invent nothing.  They have no value to the world.  Eventually, the muslime will be the insect of the human race, although, insects do have some value


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## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Ropey makes good sense.  You don't attack an enemy with rocks or AK 47's who can wipe you & your people off the face of the earth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



C'mon, sheesh, you're actually defending a military that shoots rock throwing teenagers? You guys would have a tad of credibility if you wouldn't blindly support ANYTHING Israel does. Like, I'm no sand monkey lover, but shooting their kids for throwing rocks? Sorry, you get no macho points for that, just a wet noodle award.


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## Hossfly (Apr 5, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey makes good sense.  You don't attack an enemy with rocks or AK 47's who can wipe you & your people off the face of the earth.
> ...


For your information,sport, every one of those "pebble" tosing SOBs are 5th degree Black Belt brick throwers. Any MLB teams would love to sign any of them to a contract. Potential 40 game winners all. As for shooting them, they should know not to bring a rock to a gun fight. Remember what Clint Eastwood said after shooting the unarmed bartender in The Unforgiven....."He should have armed himself."


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

Barack Obama...


> The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice.
> 
> Let's be honest: Israel is surrounded by neighbors that have waged repeated wars against it. Israel's citizens have been killed by rockets fired at their houses and suicide bombs on their buses. Israel's children come of age knowing that throughout the region, other children are taught to hate them. Israel, a small country of less than eight million people, looks out at a world where leaders of much larger nations threaten to wipe it off of the map.
> These facts cannot be denied. Remarks by President Obama in Address to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House





> My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but allah, we will chase you everywhere  We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no better blood than the blood of the Jews.  We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood, we will not rest until you leave the Muslim countries.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleFpY402vM]Palestinian - Terrorism - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Apr 5, 2012)

Fact is that our generation is beyond any hope of peace in the Middle East.  And as long as the Palestinians continue to breed their children to hate Israel, America, Jews & Christians, there is no hope for peace in the next generation as well.


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## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


LOL! As though Clint would agree with shooting kids who throw stones. Gimme a fucking break!
You're living your life in a fantasy world. Who you gonna quote next? Rambo?


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

*Barack Obama*...


> The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice.
> 
> Let's be honest: Israel is surrounded by neighbors that have waged repeated wars against it. Israel's citizens have been killed by rockets fired at their houses and suicide bombs on their buses. Israel's children come of age knowing that throughout the region, other children are taught to hate them. Israel, a small country of less than eight million people, looks out at a world where leaders of much larger nations threaten to wipe it off of the map. These facts cannot be denied.
> Remarks by President Obama in Address to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House


 


> Allah, oh our Lord
> Vanquish your enemies, enemies of the religion [Islam]
> in all places
> Allah, strike the Jews and their sympathizers,
> ...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrI8-qb9M9A]Hamas: Kill Christians and Jews "to the last one" - YouTube[/ame]


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## docmauser1 (Apr 5, 2012)

ima said:


> _Most civilized countries use tear gas on stone throwers/protesters, or the riot police go and rough them up a little. Why do they shoot them? it's only rocks and kids, sheesh._


Funny baiting drivel.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 5, 2012)

I see only one scenario for a lasting peace for Israel from Palestinians.  And that is for Israel to find an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Call it a one state solution.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I see only one scenario for a lasting peace for Israel from Palestinians.  And that is for Israel to find an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Call it a one state solution.



Israel's version of peace is all of Palestine without the Palestinians.

That has been their goal for a hundred years.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I see only one scenario for a lasting peace for Israel from Palestinians.  And that is for Israel to find an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Call it a one state solution.
> ...



Of course just the opposite is true.  It was the Arabs who had race riots when Jews started moving into the neighborhood.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Israeli propaganda.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Not at all.  The Arabs' hostility to Jewish immigrants was just the continuing expression of Arab anti semitism that has been going on for over a thousand years.


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## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History


> The Arab Invasion of the State of Israel 15 May 1948
> 
> On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel.  They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea.  The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack
> 
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



That is just an Israeli lie.


----------



## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History


> The Arab Invasion of the State of Israel 15 May 1948
> 
> On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel.  They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea.  The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack
> 
> ...


 
Yale University Press...


> Sir Martin Gilbert is the author of more than eighty books, including the six-volume authorized biography of Winston Churchill, the twin histories First World War and Second World War, Israel: A History, The Holocaust, A History of the Twentieth Century in three volumes, and nine pioneering historical atlases, including Atlas of Jewish History and Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. In 1995, he was knighted for services to British history and international relations, and in 2009 he was appointed to the British Governments Iraq War Inquiry. He lives in London.
> In Ishmael's House - Gilbert, Martin - Yale University Press


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



We both know it's the truth.  I've several times posted links to the persecutions and pogroms by Arabs of Jews starting back in the 11th century and going right up into the 20th century.  And the causes of Arab violence never change: lies about Jewish killings of Arab or Jewish attacks on Muslim holy places.  The lie is that current Arab violence against Jews is about current issues rather than Arab anti semitism that has always been a core value of Muslim Arabs.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



Which Arabs? Which Muslims?


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Throughout the ME and North Africa from the 11th century right into the 20th century.



> During the Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain, beginning in the 9th century, Islamic Spain was more tolerant towards Jews.[8] The 11th century, however, saw several Muslim pogroms against Jews; notably those that occurred in Cordoba in 1011 and in Granada in 1066.[9] In the 1066 Granada massacre, the first large pogrom on European soil, a Muslim mob crucified the Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred about 4,000 Jews[10] In 1033 about 6,000 Jews were killed in Fez, Morocco by Muslim mobs.[11][12] Mobs in Fez murdered thousands of Jews in 1276,[13] and again, leaving only 11 alive, in 1465.[13][14]





> There were pogroms too in the nineteenth century in the Arab and Islamic worlds. There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[20] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[20] In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.[21]
> 
> The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when an Italian monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city. All were found guilty. The consuls of England, France and Austria as well as Ottoman authorities, Christians, Muslims and Jews all played a great role in this affair.[22] Following the Damascus affair, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa. As well as Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), pogroms of varying degrees of intensity occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 190102), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 190107), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).[23]





> In the Arab world, there were a number of pogroms which played a key role in the massive emigration from Arab countries to Israel.
> 
> On 12 June 1941, the two-day Farhud pogrom in Iraq, in which "rioters murdered between 150 and 180 Jews, injured 600 others, and raped an undetermined number of women. They also looted some 1,500 stores and homes".[32][33]
> 
> ...



Pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In addition, many Arab attacks on Jews in the Protectorate, such as the massacres in Hebron and Safed, are properly called pogroms in that they were caused not by actual events but by lies that the Jews were attacking the al Aksa mosque, the same sort of lie that was used from the Middle Ages on to foment pogroms and the same lie that was used to start the second intifada.

With respect to hatred and violence against Jews, nothing has changed among Muslim Arabs in over a thousand years.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



Holy smokescreen, Batman! Let's stick to Palestine.


----------



## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I see only one scenario for a lasting peace for Israel from Palestinians.  And that is for Israel to find an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Call it a one state solution.



Offer all the arabs $1 million each with a one way ticket to mecca and you'd probably get a lot of takers, lol.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Of course several of the locations are in the area of the Mandate and also in the surrounding countries, and no reasonable person can deny that Arab  hatred and violence against Jews did not start with the immigration of European Jews to the Mandate but has been continuous from the 11th century to today or that this Arab anti semitism, which is clearly a core value of Muslim Arabs, is the reason that Arabs respond with such violence and hatred to any disagreements with Israel.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



More smokescreen. Specific Palestinian issues.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



As usual, you have nothing to contribute to the discussion.  Even you must find yourself boring.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



No specific issues?

Check.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 5, 2012)

Nix on the million dollars each but a go on the one way ticket to Mecca.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I see only one scenario for a lasting peace for Israel from Palestinians.  And that is for Israel to find an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Call it a one state solution.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Nix on the million dollars each but a go on the one way ticket to Mecca.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



C'mon, SHOW THEM THE MONEY!!! What's a trillion dollars for world peace?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Nix on the million dollars each but a go on the one way ticket to Mecca.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.
> ...



Really, we piss away more than that for war.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Nix on the million dollars each but a go on the one way ticket to Mecca.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can anyone imagine what would happen if half of the Palisimians were given a 7/11 and the other half were given a taxicab?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 6, 2012)

LOL!  Good one Hoss.  I think we found the solution to a lasting peace.  A one way ticket to Mecca, a 7-11 & a taxi cab for the Palestinians.




Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Nix on the million dollars each but a go on the one way ticket to Mecca.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> LOL!  Good one Hoss.  I think we found the solution to a lasting peace.  A one way ticket to Mecca, a 7-11 & a taxi cab for the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Depending on where you buy your taxi license + the price of a 7/11 = AT LEAST $1 million.

Sorry, my plan is cheaper and quicker. Plus, with my plan, they can continue not to work.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 6, 2012)

OK, whatever.  The main thing is that Israel free the Palestinians from their bondage in Israel.  Wouldn't be wonderful if only the surrounding Arab countries would grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL!  Good one Hoss.  I think we found the solution to a lasting peace.  A one way ticket to Mecca, a 7-11 & a taxi cab for the Palestinians.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> OK, whatever.  The main thing is that Israel free the Palestinians from their bondage in Israel.  Wouldn't be wonderful if only the surrounding Arab countries would grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe we could get Europe to take back their Jews?


----------



## JStone (Apr 6, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > OK, whatever.  The main thing is that Israel free the Palestinians from their bondage in Israel.  Wouldn't be wonderful if only the surrounding Arab countries would grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?
> ...



Shit for brains, since Jews have lived continuously in Israel for 3000 years to today, maybe, we could get the Fakestinians to leave Israel and go back to Egypt and Saudi Arabia where they came from.

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza.Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 6, 2012)

After what happened in Europe most Jews would never want to return.  What I don't understand is why the Palestinians stay in Israel?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > OK, whatever.  The main thing is that Israel free the Palestinians from their bondage in Israel.  Wouldn't be wonderful if only the surrounding Arab countries would grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands?
> ...


----------



## pbel (Apr 6, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> LOL!  Good one Hoss.  I think we found the solution to a lasting peace.  A one way ticket to Mecca, a 7-11 & a taxi cab for the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It seems to me that the prejudice and hate will destroy both the Israelis and Palestinians...Only legitimate trade to enrich an adversary which leads to pride will lead to peace....

Look and Japan and Germany and now China...free trade has turned people we hated in WWll and adversary China into friends.

Stop the Hate!


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 6, 2012)

pbel said:


> _It seems to me that the prejudice and hate will destroy both the Israelis and Palestinians...Only legitimate trade to enrich an adversary which leads to pride will lead to peace....Look and Japan and Germany and now China...free trade has turned people we hated in WWll and adversary China into friends. Stop the Hate!_


Funny drivel.


----------



## JStone (Apr 6, 2012)

pbel said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL!  Good one Hoss.  I think we found the solution to a lasting peace.  A one way ticket to Mecca, a 7-11 & a taxi cab for the Palestinians.
> ...



Torah: "Love thy neighbor as thyself"

Quran: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"


----------



## pbel (Apr 6, 2012)

JStone said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Well, then tells oh great general: What is your plan for deafeating one quarter of Humanity, namely Islam? You guys just don't get it. America is withdrawing from her foreign adventures and wars which partly a result of our very biased support of Israel...Right or Wrong.

I say America is becoming more Libertarian a la Ron Paul, Obama, Romney: America First!


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 6, 2012)

pbel said:


> _Well, then tells oh great general: What is your plan for deafeating one quarter of Humanity, namely Islam? You guys just don't get it. America is withdrawing from her foreign adventures and wars which partly a result of our very biased support of Israel...Right or Wrong._


Reads like one of the coolest jihad apologies, of course.


pbel said:


> _I say America is becoming more Libertarian a la Ron Paul, Obama, Romney: America First!_


Of course! First, the united sharia states of america, then those islamic Charles Manson-type maniacs will try the world on, or so the khalifat plan goes.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 6, 2012)

Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:

That we will no longer protect them with our veto in the UNSC
I'm freezing all weapons shipments to Israel
I'm freezing all Israeli assets in US banks
I'm outlawing AIPAC
I'd also tell that war-mongering prick, he's got 90 days to get his ass out of the OPT, or I will submit a resolution to the UNSC, requesting authorization for member states to use "all necessary means" to drive the god-damn Israeli's back to Israel.  Then I'd set up a DMZ along the Green Line and shoot any mother-fucker entering it from either side.

And I'd finish it by telling Benny, if he doesn't end that bogus blockade of Gaza immediately, I'm going to re-commission the USS Missouri and send it over there with humanitarian supplies and a big ass sign on the side that reads...


> "BOARD THIS, MOTHER-FUCKER!"


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> 
> That we will no longer protect them with our veto in the UNSC
> I'm freezing all weapons shipments to Israel
> ...


Insanely hilarious drivel!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> 
> That we will no longer protect them with our veto in the UNSC
> I'm freezing all weapons shipments to Israel
> ...





> I'm outlawing AIPAC



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttJGEc5pPHU&feature=related]Move Over AIPAC 2011, Washington DC - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> ...


So is 90% of what these Israeli kiss-asses say to defend Israeli aggression and lawlessness.


----------



## ima (Apr 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> *After what happened in Europe most Jews would never want to return*.  What I don't understand is why the Palestinians stay in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It' wasn't a bed of roses the first time they were in Palestine, why would the Jews want to go back there?


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


Idiotically hilarious OPT UNSC USS DMZ drivel!


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

ima said:


> _It' wasn't a bed of roses the first time they were in Palestine, why would the Jews want to go back there?_


Well, "palestine" wasn't always "palestine" that arabs turned it into, of course.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> 
> That we will no longer protect them with our veto in the UNSC
> I'm freezing all weapons shipments to Israel
> ...


You don't have to be President to converse with Bibi. Here's how to make your voice heard. Git 'er done.

ÐÐ¸Ð½ÑÑÐ¼Ð¸Ð½ ÐÐµÑÐ°Ð½Ð¸ÑÐ³Ñ - ÐÐ¸ÐºÑÐ´


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 7, 2012)

FUNNY!  FUNNY!  FUNNY!  What a relief from reality.  So little left for us to laugh at these days of Islamic terrorists killing us infidels all over the world.  How can we get this guy to post here more often?




loinboy said:


> Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> 
> That we will no longer protect them with our veto in the UNSC
> I'm freezing all weapons shipments to Israel
> ...


----------



## pbel (Apr 7, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> ...



You Zio-Nuts get to me...Although World Opinion condems your Zio-Gods agressive behavior in the ME and mis-treatment of the Palestinian people...you wack jobs believe that ancient Israel belongs to todays Jews, so that land confiscation are Divinely justified using God to steal land plain and simple.

Good luck with your war on Islam, nuke Iran and perhaps start WWlll...

Your Zealot behavior will destroy Israel in time.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 7, 2012)

Now lookie here Pbel.  It is true that the Zio-Nuts are to blame for this ongoing conflict due to their treatment of the Palestinians.  Lets face the truth.  No surrounding Arab country ever treated the Palestinians like Israel does with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in their countries.  When will Israel ever learn that you cannot keep a people captive in a foreign land & not expect jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles for a thank you?





pbel said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Now lookie here Pbel.  It is true that the Zio-Nuts are to blame for this ongoing conflict due to their treatment of the Palestinians.  Lets face the truth.  No surrounding Arab country ever treated the Palestinians like Israel does with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in their countries.  When will Israel ever learn that you cannot keep a people captive in a foreign land & not expect jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles for a thank you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is against international law to hold onto land seized in a war.  All Israel needs to do, is end the occupation.  There isn't a single country on the planet that recognizes Israels right in the OPT, including Israel.  Their Supreme Court even refers to it as the "occupied territories".  If their citizens want to live in those settlements, then they can apply for visa's, just like any other alien in someone else's country.

If Israel really wanted peace, they wouldn't have violated the cease-fire a couple years ago.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 7, 2012)

Holy mackeral.  You mean Israel is stealing Palestinian land?  I could never support land theives.  Tell us more about this.  

When did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is now stealing.  'Atta boy.





loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now lookie here Pbel.  It is true that the Zio-Nuts are to blame for this ongoing conflict due to their treatment of the Palestinians.  Lets face the truth.  No surrounding Arab country ever treated the Palestinians like Israel does with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in their countries.  When will Israel ever learn that you cannot keep a people captive in a foreign land & not expect jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles for a thank you?
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Holy mackeral.  You mean Israel is stealing Palestinian land?


No, they're "occupying".  That's why this area is legally referred to as the "occupied territories".  It's been that way for the last 45 years.  



MJB12741 said:


> I could never support land theives.


  Why not?  You support war criminals.  You support starving Gazan children, because that has something to do with Israeli national security.  You support Israeli terrorism in the form of the Mossad going into sovereign nations and assasinating its leaders.  I bet you even support the execution-style murder of an American citizen on the  Rachel Corrie for being in possession of "illegal food".



MJB12741 said:


> Tell us more about this.


Whose "us"?  Are they that group of Israeli ass-kissers that are more loyal to that country, than they are to this one? 



MJB12741 said:


> When did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is now stealing.  'Atta boy.


Since the diaspora never happened and the Palestinian's never left.  In fact, there's some evidence to suggest that the Palestinian's are the direct decendents of the Israelites.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 7, 2012)

So let me get this straight.  Israel's land has been Israel's land since antiquity.  Is that right?  Or did they become the Israelites after 1948?  So yes, I agree the Israeli's are "occupying" their land.

Now then, is it actually true there were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until the 7th century AD?  And can it be ythat Solomon's Temple predates the Al Asqa Mosque by thousands of years?  So who is staealing who's land?

Andf oh yes, Rachel.  What proud American would not support a "peace activist" who travels to the Middle East in a war zone to publically condemn our US prersident, burn a mock American flag, join in with Palestinians chanting "Death To America" & then march in front of a moving bulldozer?  Bless her.  She sure did help our American Aunt Jemima's sales to boom.












loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Holy mackeral.  You mean Israel is stealing Palestinian land?
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 7, 2012)

To Rachel:  *May you rest in pieces.*




MJB12741 said:


> So let me get this straight.  Israel's land has been Israel's land since antiquity.  Is that right?  Or did they become the Israelites after 1948?  So yes, I agree the Israeli's are "occupying" their land.
> 
> Now then, is it actually true there were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until the 7th century AD?  And can it be ythat Solomon's Temple predates the Al Asqa Mosque by thousands of years?  So who is staealing who's land?
> 
> ...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh now I get it.  There was no Israel until 1947.  Thats when they became the Israelites, right Ima?
> ...



Or you could show a map of the country of Palestine say, ever?


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now lookie here Pbel.  It is true that the Zio-Nuts are to blame for this ongoing conflict due to their treatment of the Palestinians.  Lets face the truth.  No surrounding Arab country ever treated the Palestinians like Israel does with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in their countries.  When will Israel ever learn that you cannot keep a people captive in a foreign land & not expect jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles for a thank you?
> ...



There is nothing illegal about Israel's presence in the West Bank or about Israeli communities in the West Bank.  The international law you refer to concerns land captured from another country in a war.  It has no application to the West Bank since Jordan had had not legal right to it and, in any case, Israel had offered to return it in return for peace a week after the end of the Six Day War.  Furthermore, the present arrangement, Israeli control of Area C and joint security control with the PA, is by agreement with the PA as specified in the Oslo Accords.  

If the Palestinian Arabs are unhappy with the present arrangement, they can come back to the negotiating table and try to negotiate a new one.  Negotiations have failed so far because the PA has been more interested in objecting to the existence of the state of Israel than in establishing a state of their own in the disputed territories by demanding Israel admit millions of foreigners and a corridor between Gaza and the West Bank that would cut Israel into two pieces.  If the Palestinian Arabs can ever agree among themselves that they want to live in peace alongside the Jewish state of Israel, perhaps a Palestinian Arab state can be established in the disputed territories, but so far there is no indication they are prepared to live in peace next to the Jewish state of Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 7, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...





> The international law you refer to concerns land captured from another country in a war. It has no application to the West Bank since Jordan had had not legal right to it...



That is true. Jordan never won that land because they were never at war with Palestine. Everyone knew that the West Bank was occupied Palestinian land. It was not Jordan's land to lose. Israel cannot win Palestinian land in a war with Jordan. Of course this applies to Gaza also.


----------



## pbel (Apr 7, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Jordan never owned the UN Mandate of Palestine, they administered it. The pre-emptive strike by Israel was a land grab. That's how the world sees it. Not even the USA has recognized Israel's anexations and that why the US Embassy is located in Tel Aviv and not Jerusalem.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 7, 2012)

pbel said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



You are confused.  Jordan annexed the West Bank and made all the Arabs there Jordanian citizens, and in the Six Day War, Jordan was suckered by Nasser into attacking Israel.  Nasser told him that Egypt had destroyed the IAF and that Jordan had nothing to fear.  While Israel's attack on Egypt was preemptive, but justified, it was Jordan that attacked Israel in the Six Day War.  Another interesting fact you may not have come across is that after liberating Jerusalem, the IDF stopped, assuming Jordan would keep control of the rest of the West Bank, but when Dayan learned the Jordanian army had fled all the way across the river, he ordered the IDF to advance to the river, a natural boundary.  

You are misguided in thinking Israel's intent was to grab land.  Within a week of the end of the war, Israel offered to return all the land it had captured in return for peace.  None of the Arab states responded, but a short time later, the Arab nations met in Khartoum and issued their famous three no's: no peace with Israel, not recognition of Israel and no negotiations with Israel.  In this way the Arab nations abandoned the land Israel had captured.  It is clear that Israel's intention was to try to grab peace with the Arabs, not to grab land.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 7, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...





> You are confused. Jordan annexed the West Bank and made all the Arabs there Jordanian citizens,...



No, you are confused. Jordan *attempted* to annex the West Bank but failed to get the rest of the world to recognize it.



> Within a week of the end of the war, Israel offered to return all the land it had captured in return for peace.



Not true. Israel wanted to keep all of Jerusalem. You failed to mention that clunker.


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

pbel said:


> _Jordan never owned the UN Mandate of Palestine, they administered it._


The british mandate government administered that palestine, of course. No wonder arabs suck big-time in the educational department.


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _It is against international law to hold onto land seized in a war._


Leaving activist judges alone (for the time being, at least), let us ask a pertinent question - what might that "international law" be?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now lookie here Pbel.  It is true that the Zio-Nuts are to blame for this ongoing conflict due to their treatment of the Palestinians.  Lets face the truth.  No surrounding Arab country ever treated the Palestinians like Israel does with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in their countries.  When will Israel ever learn that you cannot keep a people captive in a foreign land & not expect jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles for a thank you?
> ...



*It is against international law to hold onto land seized in a war.*

Does that mean Germany will get back the land they lost in WWII?


----------



## pbel (Apr 7, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



The UN and Israel were created after WWll...Do you ever get tired of twisting the truth? The world has changed since. That's why America bombed Serbia with UN Sanction.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 7, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...





> No, you are confused. Jordan *attempted* to annex the West Bank but failed to get the rest of the world to recognize it.



No, Jordan did annex the West Bank and Britain recognized it as legitimate, but no other nation did.



> Not true. Israel wanted to keep all of Jerusalem. You failed to mention that clunker



Israel may have wanted a lot of things, but it offered to return *all* the land it had captured in return for peace.  Since the Arabs effectively abandoned all of this land by not responding to Israel's offer, we will never know if Israel would have attached conditions to giving up Jerusalem.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 7, 2012)

What country ever returned land won in a war?  Certainly not the USA.  At least Israel tried by offering to return the entire West Bank back to Jordan.  But Jordan played it smart.  They refused so they could sacrifice the West Bank to dump their Palestinians on Israel to deal with.





Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _It is against international law to hold onto land seized in a war._
> ...


This one...



> _The United Nations Charter (June 26, 1945) had prohibited war of aggression (See articles 1.1, 2.3, 2.4) and GCIV Article 47, the first paragraph in Section III: Occupied territories, *restricted the territorial gains which could be made through war *by stating:
> 
> *Protected persons who are in occupied territory shall not be deprived, in any case or in any manner whatsoever, of the benefits of the present Convention by any change introduced, as the result of the occupation of a territory*, into the institutions or government of the said territory, nor by any agreement concluded between the authorities of the occupied territories and the Occupying Power, nor by any annexation by the latter of the whole or part of the occupied territory.​
> *Article 49 prohibits the forced mass movement of people out of or into occupied state's territory:*
> Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive. ...* The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies*.​ _


And since Israel is a member nation of the UN, it is obligated to honor the treatise it signs and ratify's.

Saying Israel has a right to that land, is like saying it was okay for Germany to annex Poland and Hungary.  And that's never gonna happen.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> It is against international law to hold onto land seized in a war.
> 
> Does that mean Germany will get back the land they lost in WWII?


Well, that particular law, didn't come in until after WWII.  And it was created _BECAUSE_ of Germany starting un-provoked wars of aggression against its neighbor's.

However, to be quite honest, I can't answer your question.  I'm aware that there is some disputed land Germany lost,  but I haven't researched that subject in detail, so I'm not qualified to comment on it right now.


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 7, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _No, they're "occupying".  That's why this area is legally referred to as the "occupied territories"._


Hoda Tawfik from the Al Ahram, attending a ME Insight symposium in Washington on May 4, 1998, asked James Baker:
"What do you think is right? That these are occupied Arab territories and not disputed territories?"
James Baker:
"They're clearly disputed territories. That's what Resolutions 242 and 338 are all about. They are clearly disputed territories."


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So let me get this straight.  Israel's land has been Israel's land since antiquity.  Is that right?


No, it isn't.  Israel didn't exist until 1948.



MJB12741 said:


> Or did they become the Israelites after 1948?  So yes, I agree the Israeli's are "occupying" their land.


People have been living in that area going back as far as you want too.  The place wasn't vacant, then all of a sudden, people moved in 700 years ago.  But zionists moved in 100 years ago and used jewish terrorism to drive out over 700,000 arabs that were indigigant to that area.  



MJB12741 said:


> Now then, is it actually true there were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until the 7th century AD?


That's a load of crap!  But just for the sake of argument, let's say the diaspora did happen; you can't leave an area for over 2000 years, then come back and reclaim the area over the rights of the land owners at that time.  Not to mention, wanting to create a racist, apartheid nation that descriminates against an entire race of people.



MJB12741 said:


> And can it be ythat Solomon's Temple predates the Al Asqa Mosque by thousands of years?  So who is staealing who's land?


Arabs owned 90% of that land at the time zionists started populating the area, do the math! 




MJB12741 said:


> Andf oh yes, Rachel.  What proud American would not support a "peace activist" who travels to the Middle East in a war zone to publically condemn our US prersident, burn a mock American flag, join in with Palestinians chanting "Death To America" & then march in front of a moving bulldozer?  Bless her.  She sure did help our American Aunt Jemima's sales to boom.


WTF are you talking about?  You threw about 4-6 different subjects all into one non-sensical paragraph that means absolutely jack shit!  Is it too much to ask that you be a little more focused regarding your point?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Or you could show a map of the country of Palestine say, ever?


Here's a couple...


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> There is nothing illegal about Israel's presence in the West Bank or about Israeli communities in the West Bank.  The international law you refer to concerns land captured from another country in a war.  It has no application to the West Bank since Jordan had had not legal right to it and, in any case, Israel had offered to return it in return for peace a week after the end of the Six Day War.  Furthermore, the present arrangement, Israeli control of Area C and joint security control with the PA, is by agreement with the PA as specified in the Oslo Accords.


Unfortunately, since Israel is in material breach of that "agreement", it is not legally binding.  What is legally binding, is the agreements made back in 1920 by the League of Nations, which, BTW, is now the UN. 



toomuchtime_ said:


> If the Palestinian Arabs are unhappy with the present arrangement, they can come back to the negotiating table and try to negotiate a new one.  Negotiations have failed so far because the PA has been more interested in objecting to the existence of the state of Israel than in establishing a state of their own in the disputed territories by demanding Israel admit millions of foreigners and a corridor between Gaza and the West Bank that would cut Israel into two pieces.  If the Palestinian Arabs can ever agree among themselves that they want to live in peace alongside the Jewish state of Israel, perhaps a Palestinian Arab state can be established in the disputed territories, but so far there is no indication they are prepared to live in peace next to the Jewish state of Israel.


Palestinian leaders have indicated they would accept a two-state solution, but Israel needs to end its occupation, illegal settlement activity, that BS Berlin Wall their building and that economic blockade of Gaza that is actually a _*"crime against humanity".*_


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
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> > loinboy said:
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Lets us review a fairly recent International court of justice ruling on that matter.

The ICJ ruled that, it had jurisdiction over the case, but it involved only a dispute between Israel and the UN, rather than a dispute between Israel and palistanians.
The ICJ ruled that, provisions of the international law regarding israeli right of self-defense are inapplicable, since there is no state involved other than Israel.
The ICJ ruled that the West Bank is an occupied territory.
Thus, the ICJ holds that, there exists an armed conflict, and that territories are occupied territories of another state; and at the same time the ICJ asserts that, Israel has no right to defend itself, because there is no other state involved.
There it is - a virtual-reality occupation, making real money for palistanian con-artists, their UN fellow-travelers and a diverse bunch of other occupational scumbags and philistines. Dooh.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _Arabs owned 90% of that land at the time zionists started populating the area, do the math!_


No doubt arabs firmly believe in this idiocy, but we know better. As of 1947, 7% of the land of west palestine was owned by jews. 7-8% was owned by arabs. 16% was owned by absentee landlords, mostly churches. The remainder was state lands, owned first by the sultan and after that - by the british government of palestine.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


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Of course, none of this applies to the West Bank.  Jordan launched a war of aggression against Israel, not the other way around, and since the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank was considered illegal by everyone except Britain, none of the institutions of government introduced by Jordan had any standing.  

There were no *forced* transfers of populations

Neither the Israeli presence in the West Bank nor the Israeli West Bank communities are in any sense illegal.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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Unfortunately, you're not the authority having jurisdiction to draw those conclusions.  The AHJ, in this case, is the UNSC.  And their legal interpretation of this area, is that of an "occupation".


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _Arabs owned 90% of that land at the time zionists started populating the area, do the math!_
> ...


Not true.




> _(in 1922...a British census showed that *Jews represented only about 11 percent of the population*).
> 
> Additionally, *land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine*, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent &#8211; and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israel&#8217;s creation._


We can argue about the percentages all day, but the one basic fact is, you cannot migrate into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.  If you think they do, why don't you come over to my house and try to tell me what's what under my own roof.  I will personnally demonstrate what rights you have at that point.  But you'll probably recognize the ones you don't have, first.

Or better yet, walk across your street right now, go into the first house you come to, walk in un-announced and start telling the people in there what to do.  Then come back and tell us all how it went.  If you're lucky, maybe you'll get a driveway out of it?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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> Since the Arabs effectively abandoned all of this land by not responding to Israel's offer,...



The Palestinians abandoned their land?

Got a link?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


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But not an *illegal* occupation.  Israel offered to give up the land it had captured in return for peace, but the Arab nations that had lost the land refused to take it back when they made peace with Israel.  The dispute with the Palestinian Arabs is unrelated to the circumstances that led to the occupation.  Since the Jordanian occupation of the land was illegal, its status at the time Israel captured it from Jordan was that of an unincorporated remnant of the former UN Protectorate and that remains its status, with the exception of Jerusalem, because the Palestinian Arabs have been unable to agree among themselves on a two state solution in which they would live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Got a brain?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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Sure.

Got a link?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Idiot, the discussion was about Israel and the Arab nations.  The Palestinian Arabs had nothing to do with it.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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If they were discussing occupied Palestinian land, why were the Palestinians left out?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Maybe because they were not as stupid as you are.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Where is that link to the Palestinians abandoning their land?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
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Very much true, of course.


loinboy said:


> _... Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, ..._


If it were "arabs settled 85 percent of the land", than we'd buy that, more or less. Arabs didn't own the land but rented it from absentee arab landlords. The majority of arabs in palestine were sharecroppers, indebted to their landlords, who were one of a handful of arab clans, which owned land that sultan didn't own.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _Unfortunately, you're not the authority having jurisdiction to draw those conclusions.  The AHJ, in this case, is the UNSC.  And their legal interpretation of this area, is that of an "occupation"._


If it were "legal", the ICJ wouldn't be doing stoopit dancing around the subject, of course:
The ICJ ruled that, it had jurisdiction over the case, but it involved only a dispute between Israel and the UN, rather than a dispute between Israel and palistanians.
The ICJ ruled that, provisions of the international law regarding israeli right of self-defense are inapplicable, since there is no state involved other than Israel.
The ICJ ruled that the West Bank is an occupied territory.
Thus, the ICJ holds that, there exists an armed conflict, and that territories are occupied territories of another state; and at the same time the ICJ asserts that, Israel has no right to defend itself, because there is no other state involved.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _Unfortunately, you're not the authority having jurisdiction to draw those conclusions.  The AHJ, in this case, is the UNSC.  And their legal interpretation of this area, is that of an "occupation"._
> ...



Everyone dances around the issues when it comes to Israel. It is said that Palestine is not occupied because it is not a state. Yet the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Jordan and Egypt. Nobody questions that. The West Bank and Gaza are still called occupied Palestinian territories. Nobody, but Israel, questions that.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _Unfortunately, you're not the authority having jurisdiction to draw those conclusions.  The AHJ, in this case, is the UNSC.  And their legal interpretation of this area, is that of an "occupation"._
> ...


Oh c'mon, do you really expect people to believe in something so ridiculous as to _ "Israel does not have a right to defend itself"._  That's kind of a "universal principle", that everyone on the planet, has a right to defend themselves.  Which happens to be codified in Article 51 of the UN Charter.  

As much as I am disgusted with the way Israel gives a big FU to international law, even I believe they have a right to fire back at a rocket attack.  Can you post a link that backs up that claim?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


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Like I said, you can't migrate into an area and automatically have more rights than the people indigenous to that area.  They have rights too.  Let's not forget, over 700,000 of them were driven out through the use of Jewish terrorism at the hands of Irgun.  It wasn't muslim's who bombed the Star of David hotel.

And where is Irgun today?  Why, they are the Likud Party.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


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> That's kind of a "universal principle", that everyone on the planet, has a right to defend themselves.



The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves. It is their country.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
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Indeed, political correctness and pandering to arabs has proliferated so that even courts sound like a palistanian ministry of agitprop.


P F Tinmore said:


> _It is said that Palestine is not occupied because it is not a state._


Of course! At the very best it is a disputed territory, like James Baker let that be known to Hoda Tawfik of the Al Ahram.


P F Tinmore said:


> _Yet the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Jordan and Egypt. Nobody questions that._


That's what arabs do!


P F Tinmore said:


> _The West Bank and Gaza are still called occupied Palestinian territories._


Old habits, generously funded by the communist party of the happily dead Soviet Union, evidently die hard.


P F Tinmore said:


> _Nobody, but Israel, questions that._


Evidently Israel knows, Nobel prize winners, brains and all that.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
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Unfortunately for you, there isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with your position.  The only legal document that is in force, is the "Mandate for Palestine".   





> _The Mandate for Palestine, an historical League of Nations document, *laid down the Jewish legal right to settle anywhere in western Palestine, between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea*, an entitlement unaltered in international law. The Mandate for Palestine was not a naive vision briefly embraced by the international community. Fifty-one member countries  the entire League of Nations  unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
> 
> Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.
> 
> It is important to point out that political rights to self-determination as a polity for Arabs were guaranteed by the same League of Nations in four other mandates  in Lebanon and Syria (The French Mandate), Iraq, and later Trans-Jordan [The British Mandate]._


 Whether you like it or not, that's the law!


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


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> Evidently Israel knows, Nobel prize winners, brains and all that.



Yeah right! Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the world. Yet it has been battling Palestinian civilians for over 60 years and has not won yet.

Now *that *takes brains.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Indeed, Israel is humane. We may say, even too humane for its own good. Dooh.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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> The Mandate for Palestine, an historical League of Nations document, laid down the Jewish legal right to settle anywhere in western Palestine, between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an entitlement unaltered in international law.





> ART. 7.
> 
> The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate



Indeed, any Jewish citizen of Palestine can live anywhere in Palestine.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves. It is their country._


Which they didn't have in the first place, of course.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Indeed, any Jewish citizen of Palestine can live anywhere in Palestine._


And they do, of course!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> loinboy said:
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That's right!  They just can't do it with the help of the Israeli government. Only then, does it become illegal.

And it's worth mentioning how appaulling that governments treatment of jewish citizens who belong to human rights groups in Israel.  Even if all you express, is that both sides should be treated fairly, that's enough to put a bullseye on your back and make you an enemy of the state.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
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We don't, but arabs do believe it! As well as they firmly believe that life's a game with a save-reload procedure! Funny shits!


loinboy said:


> _That's kind of a "universal principle", that everyone on the planet, has a right to defend themselves. Which happens to be codified in Article 51 of the UN Charter._


We're most sure arabs hate it, of course.


loinboy said:


> _As much as I am disgusted with the way Israel gives a big FU to international law,_


And rightfully so, of course.


loinboy said:


> _even I believe they have a right to fire back at a rocket attack._


But not in that idiotically humane way, of course, wasting hours of flight time, maintenance, ammo, instead of building thousands of cheap dumb rockets and return the favor in the general direction of gazabad. That's proportional, indeed.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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What is humane about punishing 1.5 million Gazan's with an economic  blockade,  because you didn't like who Gazan's elected to represent them in a democratic election?

I'll tell you what is humane, not punishing someone for a crime they didn't commit.

There are human rights groups in Israel, but the Knesset is in the process of outlawing those.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
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Let us recall Winnie Churchill, describing that allegedly "indigenous" folks "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."
Very much illegal arab immigrants from the hood.


loinboy said:


> _It wasn't muslim's who bombed the Star of David hotel._


Oh, we're most sure muslims are properly grieving they didn't do it.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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End the occupation and you end the battle.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
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Ya know, if we sold them guidance systems and they only fired them at military targets, those rockets would be perfectly legal.

This whole thing becomes one big joke when people try to act like the "occupiers" are the victims and the "occupied", are the aggressors.  The people who think that, can shove that position up their ass!


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _End the occupation and you end the battle._


Palistanians can't do that - it's their occupation!


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## docmauser1 (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _What is humane about punishing 1.5 million Gazan's with an economic  blockade,_


Looking at the pics of round, ample, aerodinamically cool shapes of the gazabad wimmins' behinds doesn't wake the images of somalian, zambian refugee camps up, of course. They're just having an occupation.


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## ima (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


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There are way too many arabs who won't stop fighting until israel is destroyed.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

ima said:


> loinboy said:
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If Israel ends its occupation there would be no more reason to fight.


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> 
> That we will no longer protect them with our veto in the UNSC
> I'm freezing all weapons shipments to Israel
> ...


I provided this link yesterday , Mister Know-It-All, but as yet there has been no coherent reply. Most rachet mouths spew their unintelligible and uneducated garbage, then duck and run.This seems to be the usual procedure. 
Benjamin Netanyahu - Home


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
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In a pig's eye.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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It has never been tried or even offered so that is merely speculation.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> I provided this link yesterday , Mister Know-It-All, but as yet there has been no coherent reply. Most rachet mouths spew their unintelligible and uneducated garbage, then duck and run.This seems to be the usual procedure.
> Benjamin Netanyahu - Home


What exactly am I supposed to be responding to?  Usually, you post a link to back up your claim.  Well, what is your claim?  I can't read your mind and my crystal ball is in the shop for a little hydro-cleaning.  And I certainly have no intention of combing that website and trying guess what your argument is.  First, you tell me, then will go from there.

BTW, if you're gonna start throwing labels out there, it would be nice if you explained the reasoning behind them.  Because you're not making much sense.  If my "rachet mouth spew" is "unintelligable", then how can you possibly determine it's "un-educated"?  I mean, if you can't tell what you're reading, you certainly are unable to draw conclusions from that.

One last thing, I don't run from anything.  I'll answer every question you ask.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _End the occupation and you end the battle._
> ...


Is that a pun?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
> 
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It certainly would take a lot of air out of the hostility bubble.  And it would be a lot harder for the hardcore jihadists to recruit.  Nobody likes living under the thumb of a foreign force making their lives a daily hell. 

 I mean, how would you react if Russia or China forced it's way into your neighborhood and set up checkpoints down the block, which resulted in a 5 minute walk to the liquour store taking over an hour and a half as you try to cross the street without getting shot.


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I provided this link yesterday , Mister Know-It-All, but as yet there has been no coherent reply. Most rachet mouths spew their unintelligible and uneducated garbage, then duck and run.This seems to be the usual procedure.
> ...


Sent you the address to Bibi's website so you could tell him personally what you'd do if you were President. This is your big chance. Make your voice heard.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

The first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  And yes, it is their land.  





P F Tinmore said:


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  And yes, it is their land.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure, there were Jews and a lot of other people too.

Just like after WWI. There were Jews and a lot of other People there.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  And yes, it is their land.
> ...


That is true.  And they got along, for the most part, with their arab neighbors.  That is until the zionists showed up a politicized the entire region.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
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Well, I'm not President and it's not my place to threaten leaders of other country's.  In fact, it's probably illegal.  And besides, I don't give a fuck about that country!  I'm not one of their citizens, so I have no intention of wasting my time trying to make their country better.  I'm a citizen of this country and it is this one my efforts go to making it better.

Now, are you going to answer my question?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

Okay.  We agree there were Jews in Israel since antiquity.  So tell us, where there Muslim Palestinians in Palestine since antiquity?  Golly gee, is it actually possible the Palestinians are stealing Israel's land instead of the other way around?  Lets figure this out.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  And yes, it is their land.
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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> > ima said:
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I'd decide to stop supporting Palestinian Arab terrorists who seek to kill Israeli civilians.  There were no checkpoints and no IDF presence in the West Bank during Oslo until the second intifada.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
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I tried to talk to Nutandyahoo when he was on the Bill Bennet show.

He hung up on me.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
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Not true.


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## ima (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
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If Israel ends it's occupation of Palestine?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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It's not law since it concerns a League of Nations Protectorate that that was abandoned with the Partition Resolution, but if it were, it in no way contradicts what I had said.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

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The mandate left Palestine. So? It was never meant to be permanent.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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There are actually 4 mandates and they're still in effect.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Again, there is nothing illegal about the Israeli presence in the West Bank or Israeli communities in the West Bank.  It is all legal under the Oslo Accords which were agreed to by the PA and endorsed by the UN.  

It is worth mentioning that your rant about how members of human rights groups are treated is hysterical bullshit.  When you feel the need to make up lies to support your case, you are admitting you don't believe the facts support it.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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Targeting civilians is definately illegal.  However, both sides are guilty of that.  And the targeting of IDF forces, is not terrorism, it's self defense.  And it's going to stay that way as long as Israel is the "occupying" power.

I noticed you conveniently omitted Israeli terrorism.  The Mossad does the same thing al Qaeda does, but with a much bigger budget.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
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I couldn't help notice you didn't provide any evidence to prove I lied.  Whereas, you have every right to "believe" I'm a liar, it certainly doesn't constitute a "fact".  Here's one example of what I was talking about, numbnuts.  Keep in mind, the two people in this example, are Jewish Israeli's.



> _While many internationals and Israeli Jews work with great passion for human rights for all peoples,* it is Palestinian advocates who are typically targeted by the government with the greatest intensity*.
> 
> *Bassem* and *Naji Tamimi *are two such Palestinian advocates. They are fathers, scholars, committed peace activists who are *being jailed by Israel for their leadership in the West Bank village of Nabi Saleh's protests. *Since demonstrations began in the village, *Bassem's house has been raided and ransacked numerous times, his wife was arrested twice and two of his sons were injured *- Waed, 14, was hospitalized for five days after a rubber-coated bullet penetrated his leg and Mohammed, 8, was injured by a tear-gas projectile that was shot directly at him and hit him in the shoulder. Nabi Saleh been raided day and by night, causing hundreds of injuries and carrying out 75 protest-related arrests - more than 10% of the village's 550 person populationincluding women and many children. _


Here's a little more evidence, it's called the Nakba Law, asshole!



> _*Nakba Law* lets the Finance Minister reduce or prohibit funding any institution under the following conditions:
> 
> refusal to support Israel as a Jewish state;
> racist, violent or terrorist incitement;
> ...


Next time, before you start shooting your mouth off on topics you know nothing about, maybe you should to a little homework on the issues you plan on responding too.

How's that crow taste?


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


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> 
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> > docmauser1 said:
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First off, there is no battle.  There is a lot of angry talk and flurries of racist hate crimes against Jews, but this has been going on since the 11th century in Arab lands.  Arab hostility towards Jews and Israel today is just a continuation of Arab anti semitism that has produced pogroms against Jews in Arab lands with the same frequency and intensity as the pogroms against Jews in eastern Europe since the 11th century.



> During the Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain, beginning in the 9th century, Islamic Spain was more tolerant towards Jews.[8] The 11th century, however, saw several Muslim pogroms against Jews; notably those that occurred in Cordoba in 1011 and in Granada in 1066.[9] In the 1066 Granada massacre, the first large pogrom on European soil, a Muslim mob crucified the Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred about 4,000 Jews[10] In 1033 about 6,000 Jews were killed in Fez, Morocco by Muslim mobs.[11][12] Mobs in Fez murdered thousands of Jews in 1276,[13] and again, leaving only 11 alive, in 1465.[13][14]





> There were pogroms too in the nineteenth century in the Arab and Islamic worlds. There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[20] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[20] In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.[21]
> 
> The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when an Italian monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city. All were found guilty. The consuls of England, France and Austria as well as Ottoman authorities, Christians, Muslims and Jews all played a great role in this affair.[22] Following the Damascus affair, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa. As well as Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), pogroms of varying degrees of intensity occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 190102), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 190107), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).





> In the Arab world, there were a number of pogroms which played a key role in the massive emigration from Arab countries to Israel.
> 
> On 12 June 1941, the two-day Farhud pogrom in Iraq, in which "rioters murdered between 150 and 180 Jews, injured 600 others, and raped an undetermined number of women. They also looted some 1,500 stores and homes".[32][33]
> 
> ...



Pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One might add to this list the massacres of Jews in Hebron and Safed in the 1920's which were started by inflaming Arab anti semitisim with lies about Jews attacking the al Aksa mosque, the same sort of lies that led to Arab massacres of Jews for over a thousand years.

These are only the most famous pogroms, the ones that caught the attention of Europeans, but persecutions of Jews and violent attacks on Jews in Arab lands have been continuous since the 11th century.  Hatred of Jews and violence against Jews is a core value of Arabs/Muslims, and it provides a complete explanation of the violent response of the Arabs in the Mandate to the arrival of Jewish immigrants.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> It's not law since it concerns a League of Nations Protectorate that that was abandoned with the Partition Resolution, but if it were, it in no way contradicts what I had said.


Wrong.  When the League of Nations was dissolved, all its assets and authorties were transferred over to the UN.



> _On April 18, 1946, when the League of Nations was dissolved and its assets and duties transferred to the United Nations
> 
> Great Britain [i.e., the Mandatory or Trustee] *did turn over its responsibility to the United Nations as of May 14, 1948*. However, the legal force of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine [i.e., The Trust] *was not terminated *with the end of the British Mandate. Rather, the Trust was transferred over to the United Nations. _


That is the current law.  And no country can unilaterally decide to change that.  That's what the nazis did.  That's why we have those laws now.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> Hatred of Jews and violence against Jews is a core value of Arabs/Muslims, and it provides a complete explanation of the violent response of the Arabs in the Mandate to the arrival of Jewish immigrants.


How can it possibly be a complete explanation, without mentioning Jewish violence against arabs.  If you're going to go down that road, then explain why would anyone hate jews?  What is the reason for the hatred?  Can you answer that?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

The UN has now been infiltrated by Islamic terrorist countries.  Time for the USA, Israel, Britton, Canada, Australia & European nations to get out of it.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



More hysterical nonsense.  Israel's Basic Law guarantees equal rights to all its citizens regardless of race, religion ethnicity, etc.  

Case by case analyses of why some of the Arabs left shows that only about 20% were driven out and that, with a few exceptions, these were Arabs who had been continuously at war with the Jews since the Arab uprising of the 1930's and who were trying to drive the Jews out of Israel.  The other 80% left for reasons that had nothing to do with the actions of the Israelis.  If they left out of fear, it was a fear conditioned by centuries of hatred of Jews and the treatment of the 160,000 + Arabs who stayed shows they would have had nothing to fear if they had stayed.


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> 
> That we will no longer protect them with our veto in the UNSC
> I'm freezing all weapons shipments to Israel
> ...


Third time I've answered this reply and haven't seen rachetmouth's demands to Netanyahu. Talks a big game,then when cornered, weasels out of making a reply, demand I answer an obviously unnesessary question to try and skirt the issue. All I want is to do is read his provocative remarks to Bibi and then read the PM's answer. Believe me, he will get an answer and it won't come from a secretary. It'll be the real McCoy.
Oh yes.......he says he isn't concerned so why doesn't he keep his tater trap shut and drop the subject?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

I'm still waiting to learn when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that they claim Israel is stealing.  





Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck Israel!  They're lucky I'm not President.  Because if I was, I'd tell that fuck-head Big Ben, if he doesn't end the occupation of Palestinian land:
> ...


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing illegal about Israel's presence in the West Bank or about Israeli communities in the West Bank.  The international law you refer to concerns land captured from another country in a war.  It has no application to the West Bank since Jordan had had not legal right to it and, in any case, Israel had offered to return it in return for peace a week after the end of the Six Day War.  Furthermore, the present arrangement, Israeli control of Area C and joint security control with the PA, is by agreement with the PA as specified in the Oslo Accords.
> ...







> Unfortunately, since Israel is in material breach of that "agreement", it is not legally binding.  What is legally binding, is the agreements made back in 1920 by the League of Nations, which, BTW, is now the UN.



The Mandate is not relevant to the current situation since in concerns only the administration of the Protectorate and the Protectorate was dissolved by the Partition resolution in 1948.  While both sides have claimed the other side is in violation of the Oslo Accords, it remains the only relevant document defining the relationship be Israel and the Palestinian Arabs.  The PA government was created by Oslo, and if Oslo is no longer in force, the PA government no longer exists and since Israeli civil authority was restricted to Area C by Oslo, if it is no longer in force, Israeli civil authority applies equally to Areas A and B, that is to the entire West Bank and that would mean that all land in Areas A and B, even in the center of Ramallah or Nablus or Jenin that is not privately owned is state land and as available to Israelis to build on as it is to Palestinian Arabs.  If Oslo no longer exists, the PA government no longer exists and it would fall to the Israeli Civil Administration to regulate education, media, commerce, etc. in all of the West Bank.  

Palestinian leaders have indicated they would accept a two-state solution, but Israel needs to end its occupation, illegal settlement activity, that BS Berlin Wall their building and that economic blockade of Gaza that is actually a _*"crime against humanity".*_[/QUOTE]

Some Palestinian leaders have claimed they would accept a two state final status solution, but only with conditions that would effectively destroy Israel as  Jewish state, and other Palestinian leaders have emphatically opposed a two state final status solution.  Until they can agree among themselves about what they want, there is no point talking about a two state solution.

The blockade of Gaza is in no sense a crime against humanity.  It is a defensive measure intended to limit the number of crimes against humanity committed by the various Gaza terrorist gangs, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.  If the Gaza leaders want the blockade to end, all they have to do is give up trying to commit racist hate crimes against Jews.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



Some Palestinian leaders have claimed they would accept a two state final status solution, but only with conditions that would effectively destroy Israel as  Jewish state, and other Palestinian leaders have emphatically opposed a two state final status solution.  Until they can agree among themselves about what they want, there is no point talking about a two state solution.

The blockade of Gaza is in no sense a crime against humanity.  It is a defensive measure intended to limit the number of crimes against humanity committed by the various Gaza terrorist gangs, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.  If the Gaza leaders want the blockade to end, all they have to do is give up trying to commit racist hate crimes against Jews.[/QUOTE]



> ...that is to the entire West Bank and that would mean that all land in Areas A and B, even in the center of Ramallah or Nablus or Jenin that is not privately owned is state land and as available to Israelis to build on...



"State lands" are owned by the Palestinians. That land was never ceded to Israel.


----------



## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...





> ...that is to the entire West Bank and that would mean that all land in Areas A and B, even in the center of Ramallah or Nablus or Jenin that is not privately owned is state land and as available to Israelis to build on...





> "State lands" are owned by the Palestinians. That land was never ceded to Israel.



You missed the fakestinian memo admitting fakestinians are arabs from egypt and saudi arabia?

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza.Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

State-owned land in Israel is owned by Israel.  State-owned land includes all land that was subject to the British Mandate prior to the foundation of the State of Israel and was requisitioned by the government subsequent to its establishment. 




P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...





> ...that is to the entire West Bank and that would mean that all land in Areas A and B, even in the center of Ramallah or Nablus or Jenin that is not privately owned is state land and as available to Israelis to build on...



"State lands" are owned by the Palestinians. That land was never ceded to Israel.[/QUOTE]


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> State-owned land in Israel is owned by Israel.  State-owned land includes all land that was subject to the British Mandate prior to the foundation of the State of Israel and was requisitioned by the government subsequent to its establishment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

The mandate was an administrative position. It owned no land.


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > State-owned land in Israel is owned by Israel.  State-owned land includes all land that was subject to the British Mandate prior to the foundation of the State of Israel and was requisitioned by the government subsequent to its establishment.
> ...





> The mandate was an administrative position. It owned no land.



"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."
P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, Former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Rostow


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> 
> The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
> Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Mandate is not relevant to the current situation since in concerns only the administration of the Protectorate and the Protectorate was dissolved by the Partition resolution in 1948.  While both sides have claimed the other side is in violation of the Oslo Accords, it remains the only relevant document defining the relationship be Israel and the Palestinian Arabs.  The PA government was created by Oslo, and if Oslo is no longer in force, the PA government no longer exists and since Israeli civil authority was restricted to Area C by Oslo, if it is no longer in force, Israeli civil authority applies equally to Areas A and B, that is to the entire West Bank and that would mean that all land in Areas A and B, even in the center of Ramallah or Nablus or Jenin that is not privately owned is state land and as available to Israelis to build on as it is to Palestinian Arabs.  If Oslo no longer exists, the PA government no longer exists and it would fall to the Israeli Civil Administration to regulate education, media, commerce, etc. in all of the West Bank.


Since Israel is in breach of the Oslo Agreement, it cannot be enforced or considered law.  And individual country's, cannot change the material substance of the Mandate that was voted into law by 51 nations that had legal control of that area at the time of the vote.  



P F Tinmore said:


> Some Palestinian leaders have claimed they would accept a two state final status solution, but only with conditions that would effectively destroy Israel as  Jewish state, and other Palestinian leaders have emphatically opposed a two state final status solution.  Until they can agree among themselves about what they want, there is no point talking about a two state solution.


Cut the crap!  Either provide the link where they said this, or shut your fucking irresponsible mouth.



P F Tinmore said:


> The blockade of Gaza is in no sense a crime against humanity.


 I don't care how many dumbass excuses you make up, you cannot punish and entire population of people for crimes they didn't   commit.



> _Collective punishments
> 
> *Article 33.* No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
> 
> ...


I might add, if you think it's okay to punish 1.5 million people for the actions of a few, you are one sick puppy!



P F Tinmore said:


> It is a defensive measure intended to limit the number of crimes against humanity committed by the various Gaza terrorist gangs, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.  If the Gaza leaders want the blockade to end, all they have to do is give up trying to commit racist hate crimes against Jews.


They did!  Israel broke the ceasefire with a raid into Gaza.


----------



## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The Mandate is not relevant to the current situation since in concerns only the administration of the Protectorate and the Protectorate was dissolved by the Partition resolution in 1948.  While both sides have claimed the other side is in violation of the Oslo Accords, it remains the only relevant document defining the relationship be Israel and the Palestinian Arabs.  The PA government was created by Oslo, and if Oslo is no longer in force, the PA government no longer exists and since Israeli civil authority was restricted to Area C by Oslo, if it is no longer in force, Israeli civil authority applies equally to Areas A and B, that is to the entire West Bank and that would mean that all land in Areas A and B, even in the center of Ramallah or Nablus or Jenin that is not privately owned is state land and as available to Israelis to build on as it is to Palestinian Arabs.  If Oslo no longer exists, the PA government no longer exists and it would fall to the Israeli Civil Administration to regulate education, media, commerce, etc. in all of the West Bank.
> ...



The Egyptians and Pallies say the Pallies broke the ceasefire.  But, you know better, stooge?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XEXsbTLfXE]Egypt Blames Hamas for War - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1t-vLU3d2w]Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) blames Hamas for bloodshed. Dec. 28, 2008 - YouTube[/ame]


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

JStone said:


> The Egyptians and Pallies say the Pallies broke the ceasefire.  But, you know better, stooge?.


Not according to the UN.


> _Israel violated the cease-fire from the start. *According to the UN, Israeli soldiers on numerous occasions fired upon Gaza farmers trying to work their land near the border. *An 82 year old man was injured in one such incident on June 27. In another shooting incident, a Palestinian woman was wounded.
> 
> *The Israeli Defense Force openly announced that it would fire upon any Palestinian entering into what it declared was a special security zone within Gaza*; essentially a declaration of the intention to continually violate the cease-fire with impunity by firing at farmers and other Palestinians attempting to reach their own land.
> 
> ...


Since Israel has been ignoring international law for the last 60 years, that is not the kind of a country that would keep it's word and honor an agreement.


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > The Egyptians and Pallies say the Pallies broke the ceasefire.  But, you know better, stooge?.
> ...



Israel has been fully compliant with international law, doofus.  Have mommy or daddy open a law book for you, stupid little boy


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## Billo_Really (Apr 8, 2012)

JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


I counted 204 UN Security Counsel resolutions.

United Nations Security Council resolutions

Pass that on to your pop, next time you see him!


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## MikeK (Apr 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> How impossible it is for ANYONE or ANY NATION to negotiate a lasting peace with a people who are rewarded for death over life.  For those of you who condemn Israel, just think about it.
> 
> [...]


While I have often voiced my opposition to continued U.S. support of Israel, because I believe it to be extremely detrimental to U.S. interests, I have never _condemned_ Israel nor am I aware of anyone else in this forum having done so.  Speaking for myself, I am not partial toward either Israel or her Islamic enemies.  I believe their conflict is none of my country's business and we should keep our distance from it.  

As far as I'm concerned Israel is a foreign country.  Any American Jew who is truly and deeply concerned with Israel's future has the option of migrating there, becoming a citizen and possibly joining the IDF.  But to presume the entire U.S. population must share the same sense of obligation is unreasonable.  


If you can suggest a good reason for the U.S. to continue supporting Israel, which unavoidably will exacerbate Islamic antagonism toward us, I would like to know what it is.


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

MikeK said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How impossible it is for ANYONE or ANY NATION to negotiate a lasting peace with a people who are rewarded for death over life.  For those of you who condemn Israel, just think about it.
> ...



Were you dropped on your head intentionally or by accident, shit for brains?

Did Israel "exacerbate" Islamic antagonism in the 18th century, dummy?

Christopher Hitchens


> ...One cannot get around what [Thomas] Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli&#8217;s ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America&#8217;s two foremost envoys were informed that &#8220;it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.&#8221; (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)
> Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates by Christopher Hitchens, City Journal Spring 2007


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## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


The UM (United Muslims) against Israel and the US. It says so in the Wikipedia page quoted.
1st paragraph:
The following is a list of United Nations resolutions that concern Israel and bordering states such as Lebanon. The Human Rights Council has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined.[1]

3d paragraph:

The United Nations General Assembly has adopted a number of resolutions saying that the strategic relationship with the United States encourages Israel to pursue aggressive and expansionist policies and practices.[3] The 9th Emergency Session of the General Assembly was convened at the request of the Security Council when the United States blocked efforts to adopt sanctions against Israel.[4] The United States responded to the frequent criticism from UN organs by adopting the Negroponte doctrine.


Screw the UM.


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## JStone (Apr 8, 2012)

MikeK said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How impossible it is for ANYONE or ANY NATION to negotiate a lasting peace with a people who are rewarded for death over life.  For those of you who condemn Israel, just think about it.
> ...



Shit for brains, muslimes are very peaceful, right?  

Ongoing Muslim genocide in Darfur and southern Sudan, 4 million killed
Muslims firebomb Coptic church in Cairo, killing 21 
Muslims slaughter 60 Christians in church in Iraq
Muslim bombings in Mumbai, India kill 250, 700 injured
Muslim bombings in Londin, 53 killed, 700 injured
Multiple Muslim bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured 
Muslim bombing in Bali nightclub, 202 killed, 300 injured
Muslim bombing attacks in Russia kill 300
Musim attack on Beslan, Russia school, 344 killed including 186 children 
Muslim attack on the Christian community in Demsa, 
Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people
Muslim attack on the Hindu Ram temple in India; one of the most holy sites of Hinduism, 6 dead. 
Muslim bombings in India, over 60 killed and over 180 injured in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali  festival
Muslim bombings in Varanasi, India, series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station, 28 killed and over 100 injured
Muslim bombings in India, 21 explosive devices, 56 dead and 200 injured. 
Muslim bombings in Delhi, India, 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by attack two weeks later, 3 people dead.   
Muslims kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in attacks in Mumbai. 
Muslims detonate car bomb in Pakistan shopping district, killing over 110 killed and over 200 injured. 
Muslim suicide bomber in Somalia detonates in hotel  hosting a graduation ceremony for local medical students, killing four government ministers as well as other civilians.
Muslim suicide bomber in Pakistan drove into a volleyball pitch as people gathered to watch a match killing more than 100 people
Muslims attack mosques in Pakistan, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others  
Muslim attacks on the Hindu Raghunath temple, India, 25 dead. 
Muslim bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured. 
Muslim suicide attack on Indian parliament kills 7, wounds 12 
Muslim machine gun attack on Hindu temple in India. 31 dead, 86 injured

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

MikeK said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How impossible it is for ANYONE or ANY NATION to negotiate a lasting peace with a people who are rewarded for death over life.  For those of you who condemn Israel, just think about it.
> ...


A good reason. Digest this little factoid.

Major Palestinian Terror Attacks Since Oslo


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## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

Regretfully, history has proven there is only one way to communicate peace with Palestinian terrorists.  And that is to kill enough of them, until they understand the price they will pay for their terrorist attacks.  And if you don't believe that, consider that the only lasting peace ever established from the Palestinians was that of king Hussein's Black September.  When will Israel ever learn?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 9, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The Mandate is not relevant to the current situation since in concerns only the administration of the Protectorate and the Protectorate was dissolved by the Partition resolution in 1948.  While both sides have claimed the other side is in violation of the Oslo Accords, it remains the only relevant document defining the relationship be Israel and the Palestinian Arabs.  The PA government was created by Oslo, and if Oslo is no longer in force, the PA government no longer exists and since Israeli civil authority was restricted to Area C by Oslo, if it is no longer in force, Israeli civil authority applies equally to Areas A and B, that is to the entire West Bank and that would mean that all land in Areas A and B, even in the center of Ramallah or Nablus or Jenin that is not privately owned is state land and as available to Israelis to build on as it is to Palestinian Arabs.  If Oslo no longer exists, the PA government no longer exists and it would fall to the Israeli Civil Administration to regulate education, media, commerce, etc. in all of the West Bank.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 9, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I'm still waiting to learn when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that they claim Israel is stealing.



I'm still waiting for a map of Israel in 1915 since all the zionists here think that Israel has been around for 3000 years.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 9, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still waiting to learn when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that they claim Israel is stealing.
> ...



I'm still waiting to see a map of sovereign Palestine since Palestinians claim it has been around forever ...

BTW , no one here claimed that modern Israel is 3000 years old. 
The claim is that the Kingdom of Israel was here long before Arabs have ever set foot to the middle east.


This is a diagram of sovereign powers that controlled 'Palestine'.
No Palestinian control was ever present.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 9, 2012)

Reference Map of Ancient Israel and Palestine, from Shepherd's Historical Atlas (1926). Map, Ancient Israel and Palestine


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## JStone (Apr 9, 2012)

Oriental Institute | Oriental Institute Map Series - Levant


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## MJB12741 (Apr 9, 2012)

If & when the Palestinians ever value life over death, then there will be peace between the Israeli's & Palestinians.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 9, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Show me where the right to self determination requires a state or government.


----------



## JStone (Apr 9, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Fakestinians are Arabs from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.  There are 25 Arab shitholes.  Still, not enough self-determination?

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza.Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 9, 2012)

As soon as Israel turned the wasteland into a thriving metropolis, here come hoards of Palestinians to claim it's their land.


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## MikeK (Apr 9, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


What your little factoid has shown me is affirmation of the need for the U.S. to discontinue Israel's status as our costly protectorate.  And in case you're not aware that *our support of Israel was a primary provocation for the 9/11 attack*, digest this little factoid.

_The American government is leading the country towards hell. ... We say to the Americans as people and to American mothers, if they cherish their lives and if they cherish their sons, they must elect an American patriotic government that caters to their interests not the interests of the Jews. If the present injustice continues with the wave of national consciousness, it will inevitably move the battle to American soil, just as Ramzi Yousef and others have done. This is my message to the American people. I urge them to find a serious administration that acts in their interest and does not attack people and violate their honor and pilfer their wealth. ..._  (Osama bin Laden - 1998)

Read more: Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS


----------



## JStone (Apr 9, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



MikeK





Mike, you're dismissed to the dunce's corner.  


Omar Osama bin Laden


> My father has a religious goal. He is controlled by the rules of jihad. He only kills if he thinks there is a need.&#8221;
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6996210.ece



Osama bin Laden about 9/11...


> Those who want people to worship the lord of the people, without following that doctrine, will be following the doctrine of Muhammad, peace be upon him.
> 
> I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammad.'
> washingtonpost.com



*Quran 9:111 [9/11] *...


> Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed.... And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 9, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



Bullshit.  Obl's hostility towards the US began when in preparation for the first Gulf War the US moved moved and maintained a large military presence in Saudi Arabia in order to push Saddam out of Kuwait and to contain him afterwards.  It was only after the Arab street failed to rally around his anti American rants that he added Israel in order to inflame Arab passions.


----------



## JStone (Apr 9, 2012)

Ongoing Muslim genocide in Darfur and southern Sudan, 4 million killed
Muslims firebomb Coptic church in Cairo, killing 21 
Muslims slaughter 60 Christians in church in Iraq
Muslim bombings in Mumbai, India kill 250, 700 injured
Muslim bombings in Londin, 53 killed, 700 injured
Multiple Muslim bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured 
Muslim bombing in Bali nightclub, 202 killed, 300 injured
Muslim bombing attacks in Russia kill 300
Musim attack on Beslan, Russia school, 344 killed including 186 children 
Muslim attack on the Christian community in Demsa, 
Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people
Muslim attack on the Hindu Ram temple in India; one of the most holy sites of Hinduism, 6 dead. 
Muslim bombings in India, over 60 killed and over 180 injured in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali  festival
Muslim bombings in Varanasi, India, series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station, 28 killed and over 100 injured
Muslim bombings in India, 21 explosive devices, 56 dead and 200 injured. 
Muslim bombings in Delhi, India, 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by attack two weeks later, 3 people dead.   
Muslims kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in attacks in Mumbai. 
Muslims detonate car bomb in Pakistan shopping district, killing over 110 killed and over 200 injured. 
Muslim suicide bomber in Somalia detonates in hotel  hosting a graduation ceremony for local medical students, killing four government ministers as well as other civilians.
Muslim suicide bomber in Pakistan drove into a volleyball pitch as people gathered to watch a match killing more than 100 people
Muslims attack mosques in Pakistan, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others  
Muslim attacks on the Hindu Raghunath temple, India, 25 dead. 
Muslim bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured. 
Muslim suicide attack on Indian parliament kills 7, wounds 12 
Muslim machine gun attack on Hindu temple in India. 31 dead, 86 injured

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri

Alexis de Toqueville...


> I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.


----------



## MikeK (Apr 10, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


It's not bullshit.  

The data you've posted was indeed one motivating factor.  But both bin Laden and Yousef have openly declared their separate attacks on the World Trade Center were motivated by our support of Israel.  So you can deny it all you wish but it comes to you right from the horse's mouths.  Why would they lie?  

On Ramseh Youssef:

_". . . .So, then, what motivated him? Here, Mr. Reeve mistakenly argues that Yousef had no real ideology -  *no clear or definable political goals*" and a generalized hatred of the United States.  This analysis, however, overlooks Mr. Reeve's own plentiful evidence in "The New Jackals" that Yousef, who called himself *"Pakistani by birth, Palestinian by choice," made anti-Zionism the core belief of his wretched existence.*

In another note found on his computer, for example, *he threatened more attacks on American targets "in response to the . . .  assistance given to the Jewish State by the American government."*

Yousef did have a clear and definable goal: the destruction of Israel. *Finding Israeli installations too well defended, he attacked American ones instead. In short, he is an independent terrorist motivated by his hatred of Israel and Jews.*_

(Excerpted from Sunday Times Book Reviews article, by Jonathan Abbott, 9/4/94, p.21A)


----------



## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

MikeK said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...





MikeK






Omar Osama bin Laden


> My father has a religious goal. He is controlled by the rules of jihad. He only kills if he thinks there is a need.&#8221;
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6996210.ece



Osama bin Laden...


> Those who want people to worship the lord of the people, without following that doctrine, will be following the doctrine of Muhammad, peace be upon him.
> 
> I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammad.'
> washingtonpost.com




Sahih Bukhari Hadeeth [Sacred islimic literature]


> Narrated Ibn Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.



Quran 


> Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 10, 2012)

MikeK said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



They lied about US support of Israel being the cause of the 911 attacks for the same reason Saddam fired missiles at Israel when the US and Arab countries attacked his forces in Kuwait, to try to rally the support of the Arab street.  obl wasn't banished from Saudi Arabia in 1992 because he was critical of US support for Israel, he was banished for criticizing the presence of US troops in his holy land, Saudi Arabia.  When obl was angry about Soviet troops in Afghanistan, he went there to fight them and when he was incensed about US troops in Saudi Arabia he organized several attacks on the US before 911, but he never attacked Israel, either in the country or around the world, so it simply isn't credible that he was so upset about Israel that he attacked the US on 9/11/01.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes but those Zionists just don't understand that all these murderous killings all over the world by Islamic terrorists is because "the USA supports Israel."  Heh Heh.





JStone said:


> Ongoing Muslim genocide in Darfur and southern Sudan, 4 million killed
> Muslims firebomb Coptic church in Cairo, killing 21
> Muslims slaughter 60 Christians in church in Iraq
> Muslim bombings in Mumbai, India kill 250, 700 injured
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

All this because "the USA supports Israel"?  Ya gotta love this MikeK guy.  Heh Heh.





MikeK said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Ongoing Muslim genocide in Darfur and southern Sudan, 4 million killed
Muslims firebomb Coptic church in Cairo, killing 21 
Muslims slaughter 60 Christians in church in Iraq
Muslim bombings in Mumbai, India kill 250, 700 injured
Muslim bombings in Londin, 53 killed, 700 injured
Multiple Muslim bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured 
Muslim bombing in Bali nightclub, 202 killed, 300 injured
Muslim bombing attacks in Russia kill 300
Musim attack on Beslan, Russia school, 344 killed including 186 children 
Muslim attack on the Christian community in Demsa, 
Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people
Muslim attack on the Hindu Ram temple in India; one of the most holy sites of Hinduism, 6 dead. 
Muslim bombings in India, over 60 killed and over 180 injured in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival
Muslim bombings in Varanasi, India, series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station, 28 killed and over 100 injured
Muslim bombings in India, 21 explosive devices, 56 dead and 200 injured. 
Muslim bombings in Delhi, India, 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by attack two weeks later, 3 people dead. 
Muslims kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in attacks in Mumbai. 
Muslims detonate car bomb in Pakistan shopping district, killing over 110 killed and over 200 injured. 
Muslim suicide bomber in Somalia detonates in hotel hosting a graduation ceremony for local medical students, killing four government ministers as well as other civilians.
Muslim suicide bomber in Pakistan drove into a volleyball pitch as people gathered to watch a match killing more than 100 people
Muslims attack mosques in Pakistan, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others 
Muslim attacks on the Hindu Raghunath temple, India, 25 dead. 
Muslim bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured. 
Muslim suicide attack on Indian parliament kills 7, wounds 12 
Muslim machine gun attack on Hindu temple in India. 31 dead, 86 injured

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri

Alexis de Toqueville...

Quote:
I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.


----------



## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes but those Zionists just don't understand that all these murderous killings all over the world by Islamic terrorists is because "the USA supports Israel."  Heh Heh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The children of satan, followers of the pedophile mahomet have been attacking the US since the 18th century.

Christopher Hitchens


> ...One cannot get around what [Thomas] Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripolis ambassador to London in March 1785. When they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, Americas two foremost envoys were informed that it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise. (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)
> 
> Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates by Christopher Hitchens, City Journal Spring 2007



United States President John Quincy Adams


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books


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## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Golly gee, I wonder why there have been no rebuttals to your documented list of Muslim killings all over the world?  After all, they do this because the USA supports Israel.  And if you don't believe it, just ask MikeK.  Heh Heh.




JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes but those Zionists just don't understand that all these murderous killings all over the world by Islamic terrorists is because "the USA supports Israel."  Heh Heh.
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


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## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

MikeK said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg]What motivated the 9/11 hijackers? See testimony most didn&#39;t - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

*Omar Osama bin Laden*


> My father has a religious goal. He is controlled by the rules of jihad. He only kills if he thinks there is a need.&#8221;
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6996210.ece




*Osama bin Laden*...


> Those who want people to worship the lord of the people, without following that doctrine, will be following the doctrine of Muhammad, peace be upon him.
> 
> I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammad.'
> washingtonpost.com



*Sahih Bukhari Hadith [sacred islimic literature*] 


> Narrated Ibn Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.



*Quran 9:111*...


> Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.


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## SAYIT (Apr 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


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## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...


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## SAYIT (Apr 10, 2012)

[/COLOR]





MikeK said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



You seem to have much respect for the words of OBL. That said allow me to clear the air: Neither you nor OBL recognize that America's support for Israel has little to do with our support of Jews, nor is it solely a result of the efforts of America's Jews. The vast majority America's Zionists are not Jewish and to be elected to high public office one must represent the interests of his or her constituents. In other words, it's the Christian and Atheist and Agnostic Zionists who determine America's choices.


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## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Isn't it interesting how as soon as Israel granted the Palestinian their own Jew free Gaza, Egypt closed the border on their Palestinian Arab brothers?  Gosh i wonder why?  Boy, thats a tough one huh?





P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Isn't it interesting how as soon as Israel granted the Palestinian their own Jew free Gaza, Egypt closed the border on their Palestinian Arab brothers?  Gosh i wonder why?  Boy, thats a tough one huh?



$2B a year from the US.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Oh now I get it.  The USA paid Egypt 3 billion dollars a year to close the border on the Palestinians.  May I ask you WHY we did this?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't it interesting how as soon as Israel granted the Palestinian their own Jew free Gaza, Egypt closed the border on their Palestinian Arab brothers?  Gosh i wonder why?  Boy, thats a tough one huh?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh now I get it.  The USA paid Egypt 3 billion dollars a year to close the border on the Palestinians.  May I ask you WHY we did this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was part of the 1979 peace agreement we bought for Israel.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Amazing what we learn here on this board.  The USA paid Egypt 3 billion dollars per year per their agreement that if Israel ever granted Gaza to the Palestinians, Egypt would close the border on them.

Hey, did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh now I get it.  The USA paid Egypt 3 billion dollars a year to close the border on the Palestinians.  May I ask you WHY we did this?
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Amazing what we learn here on this board.  The USA paid Egypt 3 billion dollars per year per their agreement that if Israel ever granted Gaza to the Palestinians, Egypt would close the border on them.
> 
> Hey, did you hear the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land"?
> 
> ...



As part of the agreement, the US began economic and military aid to Egypt, and political backing for its subsequent governments. From the Camp David peace accords in 1978 until 2000, the United States has subsidized Egypt's armed forces with over $38 billion worth of aid. Egypt receives about $1.3 billion annually.

Egypt


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing what we learn here on this board.  The USA paid Egypt 3 billion dollars per year per their agreement that if Israel ever granted Gaza to the Palestinians, Egypt would close the border on them.
> ...



The US has to bribe arabs and musliimes to be peaceful?  I thought they were a peaceful people.  

Oh, wait...

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri


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## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

What worries me is that the Arab countries combined receive almost twice the financial aid that Israel does.  How about we cut off all aid to all of the countries in the Middle East to keep the USA & Israel strong?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing what we learn here on this board.  The USA paid Egypt 3 billion dollars per year per their agreement that if Israel ever granted Gaza to the Palestinians, Egypt would close the border on them.
> ...


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## ima (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> What worries me is that the Arab countries combined receive almost twice the financial aid that Israel does.  How about we cut off all aid to all of the countries in the Middle East to keep the USA & Israel strong?



Why don't we cut off Israel too and keep America stronger?


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What worries me is that the Arab countries combined receive almost twice the financial aid that Israel does.  How about we cut off all aid to all of the countries in the Middle East to keep the USA & Israel strong?
> ...



IMA DUNCE






*Wall Street Journal: Where Tech Keeps Booming, In Israel, a Clustering of Talent, Research Universities and Venture Capital*... 

*"Google, Cisco, Microsoft, Intel, eBay . . . ," says one of eBay's executives. "The best-kept secret is that we all live and die by the work of our Israeli teams."* 


> There are more new innovative ideas coming out of Israel than there are out in Silicon Valley right now. And it doesn't slow during economic downturns." The authors of "Start-Up Nation," Dan Senor and Saul Singer, are quoting an executive at British Telecom, but they could just as easily be quoting an executive at Intel, which last year opened a $3.5 billion factory in Kiryat Gat, an hour south of Tel Aviv, to make sophisticated 45-nanometer chips; or Warren Buffett, who in 2006 paid $4 billion for four-fifths of an Israeli firm that makes high-tech cutting tools for cars and planes; or John Chambers, Cisco's chief executive, who has bought nine Israeli start-ups; or Steve Ballmer, who calls Microsoft "as much an Israeli company as an American company" because of the importance of its Israeli technologists. "Google, Cisco, Microsoft, Intel, eBay . . . ," says one of eBay's executives. "The best-kept secret is that we all live and die by the work of our Israeli teams."
> 
> Israel is the world's techno-nation. Civilian research-and-development expenditures run 4.5% of the gross domestic product&#8212;half-again the level of the U.S., Germany or South Korea&#8212;and venture-capital investment per capita is 2½ times that of the U.S. and six times that of the United Kingdom. Even in absolute terms, Israel has only the U.S.&#8212;with more than 40 times the population&#8212;as a challenger.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

YES, YES, YES, I already implied we cut off all aid to Israel too when I said cut off all aid to ALL of the countries in the Middle East.  If the current trend continues with the Arab countries receiving almost twice what Israel does, Israel will be doomed.  Cut off ALL AID now to ALL of the Middle East countries to keep the USA & Israel strong.





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What worries me is that the Arab countries combined receive almost twice the financial aid that Israel does.  How about we cut off all aid to all of the countries in the Middle East to keep the USA & Israel strong?
> ...


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> ...




"Palestinian Children Created To Fertilize the Land With their Blood"
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1kIYk22d8]"PALESTINIAN KIDS ARE "FERTILIZER" CREATED TO SATURATE OUR PURE LAND WITH THEIR BLOOD" FATAH - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

Not even roaches kill themselves & their own children like Palestinians do.




JStone said:


> Winston Churchill...
> 
> 
> > How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> YES, YES, YES, I already implied we cut off all aid to Israel too when I said cut off all aid to ALL of the countries in the Middle East.  If the current trend continues with the Arab countries receiving almost twice what Israel does, Israel will be doomed.  Cut off ALL AID now to ALL of the Middle East countries to keep the USA & Israel strong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How about cutting them all off from American weapons?


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > YES, YES, YES, I already implied we cut off all aid to Israel too when I said cut off all aid to ALL of the countries in the Middle East.  If the current trend continues with the Arab countries receiving almost twice what Israel does, Israel will be doomed.  Cut off ALL AID now to ALL of the Middle East countries to keep the USA & Israel strong.
> ...



How can you use the internet without Google, which has its only R&D centers outside the US in Israel? 

Do the arabs and muslimes have a search engine invented by allah and running on camel dung?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnC0vDx048]Innovation at Google&#39;s R&D Center in Israel - YouTube[/ame]


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## ima (Apr 11, 2012)

JStone said:


> Innovation at Google's R&D Center in Israel - YouTube



Just curious, is this what passes for cute in Israel?


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

ima said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Innovation at Google's R&D Center in Israel - YouTube
> ...



Too bad you can't have an Apple iPad, iPod and iPhone which all rely on Israeli technology.

But, you have a camel which allah invented  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA4wnqRAuhI]Apple to set up Israel development center - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH1mYikmYzo]Apple to Acquire Anobit? - YouTube[/ame]


> Apple today confirmed earlier reports it has acquired Israel-based flash memory startup Anobit....which makes flash memory technology found in the iPhone, iPad, and MacBook Air.. The deal was reported to be worth $400 million to $500 million. Apple confirms Anobit acquisition | Apple - CNET News


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 11, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> Let me try to explain this to you again.  The Mandate was *only * concerned with administration of the Protectorate of Palestine, but in GA 181, the Partition resolution, the UN General Assembly formally dissolved the Protectorate so the Mandate, which *only* concerned the administration of the Protectorate, became null and void.  So it was not one nation that made the Mandate irrelevant to the current situation, it was the UN General Assembly.  If you are not able to understand this, you are simply not competent to discuss these issues.


Wrong!  The "Mandate" is the legal justification that created the state of Israel.  Without the "Mandate", there is no Israel.  Now, how many times do I need to post this for it to sink into your fuckin' head?  When the League of Nations dissovled, it's authority and assets were transferred over to the UN.  And the UN, in 1948, voted to uphold the "Mandate" and nothing has changed since.  So wipe your ass with that "Protectorate" bullshit!




> _The Origin and Nature of the &#8220;Mandate for Palestine&#8221;
> 
> The &#8220;Mandate for Palestine,&#8221; an historical League of Nations document, laid down the Jewish legal right to settle anywhere in western Palestine, a 10,000-square-miles3 area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
> 
> ...


Que pasa, mutha? 



toomuchtime_ said:


> The Gaza blockade does not constitute collective punishment.


Of coarse it does!  It punishes 1.5 million people who've committed no crime and you're just a sick piece of shit, for thinking it doesn't.



toomuchtime_ said:


> Clearly, the Gaza blockade is not collective punishment.  The Gaza blockade has a military objective of preventing the Gaza terrorists from acquiring more and better weapons with which to commit racist hate crimes against Jews so the difficulties it has caused other Gazans would more properly be called collateral damage.


Nice try.  It didn't work for Bush and it won't work for you.  Trying to change the definition of common GC terms does not negate the fact of what they actually are.  It is collective punishment and fuck you for trying to twist it into something else!



toomuchtime_ said:


> A ceasefire while they continue to plan more racist hate crimes against Jews is insufficient to justify lifting the blockade.  Giving up trying to commit racist hate crimes against Jews means giving it up for good as a matter of policy.  Unless that happens the only alternative to the blockade is a reoccupation of Gaza.


You're the only racist I see here!


----------



## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

Islime is the religion of peace, yes?  ALLAHU AKBAR! Well, maybe, not so much, after all 

Quran: Jihâd (holy fighting in Allâh's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allâh knows but you do not know. 

Quran: Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

Eh, loinboy, just curious.  When you were just a wee little baby, did someone stick their thumb in your soft spot?




loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > Let me try to explain this to you again.  The Mandate was *only * concerned with administration of the Protectorate of Palestine, but in GA 181, the Partition resolution, the UN General Assembly formally dissolved the Protectorate so the Mandate, which *only* concerned the administration of the Protectorate, became null and void.  So it was not one nation that made the Mandate irrelevant to the current situation, it was the UN General Assembly.  If you are not able to understand this, you are simply not competent to discuss these issues.
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

Oh no!  Now look what I have done.  Loinboy has disappeared.  Woe is me.



MJB12741 said:


> Eh, loinboy, just curious.  When you were just a wee little baby, did someone stick their thumb in your soft spot?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## coleenbeauty (Apr 12, 2012)

Respect each others' belief.. until then, there will be peace. That's what I believe in..


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 12, 2012)

coleenbeauty said:


> Respect each others' belief.. until then, there will be peace. That's what I believe in..


I will start believeing in Islam when I see a pissant eat a bale of hay.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> coleenbeauty said:
> 
> 
> > Respect each others' belief.. until then, there will be peace. That's what I believe in..
> ...



Well, that's ONE way of putting it...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 12, 2012)

How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?


----------



## JStone (Apr 12, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> coleenbeauty said:
> 
> 
> > Respect each others' belief.. until then, there will be peace. That's what I believe in..
> ...



Or, a 53 year old pedophile marry a 6 year old girl.  Oh, no


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 12, 2012)

Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 12, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Palestinians defending their country.

Do you have a point?


----------



## JStone (Apr 12, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



The country with no name. Unless, of course, Israel is now a palesteenian name. 

Their countries are Egypt and Saudi Arabia, which they acknowledge.  You didn't read the memo?...

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 12, 2012)

Now THATS funny!  "Palestinians defending their country."




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinian political violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


----------



## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Now THATS funny!  "Palestinians defending their country."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Last time I checked, Israel was a Hebrew word.  When did Israel become a "palesteenian" word?

Fakestinians from Egypt and Saudi Arabia illegally occupying Israel.

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country [Israel] and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


----------



## ima (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?



You mean the way Jews worship the Holocaust?


----------



## Lipush (Apr 13, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?
> ...



Jews don't worship the holocaust. Hateful people wish to repeat it, is all.

Muslims, though, worship death over life.

That is bothering more then a little bit.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 13, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?
> ...


Won't be long until you'll be sucking off goats.


----------



## ima (Apr 13, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Everything Israel does is because they don't want another "Holocaust", it's almost mystical.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 13, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



It is also something that None-Jews will probably never understand.


----------



## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Is a good wife-beating scheduled for today?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efktSi0MiIY]Palestinian cleric: How to gently beat your wife - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

"Jews worship the Holocaust"?  Them poppies must be good this year, eh Ima?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > How does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

And this is just so far in 2012.  And who said Hamas doesn't want peace?

List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> And this is just so far in 2012.  And who said Hamas doesn't want peace?
> 
> List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


As soon as some civilians, especially children, are killed, Isreal retaliates. That's when Tinmore's feathers get ruffled. Next time there should be a re-enactment of Sherman's march through Georgia.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

If there is ever to be peace between Israel & the Paleswtinians, Israel must first end their failed Zionist agenda provoking the Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If there is ever to be peace between Israel & the Paleswtinians, Israel must first end their failed Zionist agenda provoking the Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land.



For THAT to happen the Palestinians need to accept Israel's existence.

The Jews will never give up when a while community calls for their demise.

Is that logic SO difficult for Anti-Zionists to understand??


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

Well, I believe the Palestinians deserve to be free from Israel's bondage of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians in Israel.  Face it, not even once has Israel tried to find an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for this.  Israel needs a one state solution.  Find a way to send the Palestinians back home & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





Lipush said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If there is ever to be peace between Israel & the Paleswtinians, Israel must first end their failed Zionist agenda provoking the Palestinians with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land.
> ...


----------



## Lipush (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well, I believe the Palestinians deserve to be free from Israel's bondage of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians in Israel.  Face it, not even once has Israel tried to find an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for this.  Israel needs a one state solution.  Find a way to send the Palestinians back home & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, scenario.

All check points are off, all gates are open, blockade on Gaza finished.

Will there be peace?


----------



## Lipush (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well, I believe the Palestinians deserve to be free from Israel's bondage of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians in Israel.  Face it, not even once has Israel tried to find an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for this.  Israel needs a one state solution.  Find a way to send the Palestinians back home & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And something that interests me if you have an opinion of, and if you don't mind sharing, of course.

How would you handle the rockets threat on southern Israelis?


----------



## ima (Apr 13, 2012)

Lipush said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I believe the Palestinians deserve to be free from Israel's bondage of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians in Israel.  Face it, not even once has Israel tried to find an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for this.  Israel needs a one state solution.  Find a way to send the Palestinians back home & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> ...



First, I'd duck, then I'd get the fuck outta there!


----------



## Lipush (Apr 13, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Well that is no solution. There are million of citizens in south Israel that cannot afford to leave.

And southen Israelis don't "duck".


----------



## ima (Apr 13, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Then I'd hide behind a Hassid, I hear they make great human shields.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 13, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



I wouldn't bet on it, lolz


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 13, 2012)

Lipush said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I believe the Palestinians deserve to be free from Israel's bondage of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians in Israel.  Face it, not even once has Israel tried to find an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for this.  Israel needs a one state solution.  Find a way to send the Palestinians back home & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> ...



Perhaps you should ask them. That would be a good place to start.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



They think your terrorist buddies should stop firing rockets at civilians.


----------



## Mr. President (Apr 13, 2012)

Palestine does not exist. Hence Palestinians do not exist.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 13, 2012)

Mr. President said:


> Palestine does not exist. Hence Palestinians do not exist.



OK, but the Palestinians are not convinced.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 13, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Terrorist is an Israeli propaganda term.


----------



## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."
P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"


US State Department: Terrorist Designation of HAMAS Operative Muhammad Hisham Muhammad Isma'il Abu Ghazala

The State Department has designated Muhammad Hisham Muhammad Ismail Abu Ghazala under E.O. 13224, which targets terrorists and those providing support to terrorists or acts of terrorism. This action will help stem the flow of finances to Abu Ghazala by prohibiting U.S. persons from engaging in transactions with him and freezing any assets he may have under U.S. jurisdiction.
Designated as a Foreign Terrorist Organization since 1997, HAMAS has carried out attacks  such as suicide bombings, rocket launches, improvised explosive device attacks, and shootings  against civilian targets inside Israel

Terrorist Designation of HAMAS Operative Muhammad Hisham Muhammad Isma'il Abu Ghazala


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

It's all just a matter of communicating with Palestinians in the only language they understand & respect.  The same language king Hussein communicated to them during Black September.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY


QUOTE=Lipush;5120769]





MJB12741 said:


> Well, I believe the Palestinians deserve to be free from Israel's bondage of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians in Israel.  Face it, not even once has Israel tried to find an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for this.  Israel needs a one state solution.  Find a way to send the Palestinians back home & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And something that interests me if you have an opinion of, and if you don't mind sharing, of course.

How would you handle the rockets threat on southern Israelis?[/QUOTE]


----------



## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



There are actual civilians who haven't been trained by the army in Israel? Who knew?


----------



## Lipush (Apr 14, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



There is no need for me to do that. I know this problem more then you or anyone could imagine.

But I do ask you, anyway.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It's all just a matter of communicating with Palestinians in the only language they understand & respect.  The same language king Hussein communicated to them during Black September.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY
> 
> 
> QUOTE=Lipush;5120769]
> ...


[/QUOTE]

You cannot make peace with someone that think you have no right to exist.


----------



## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

Lipush said:


> You cannot make peace with someone that think you have no right to exist.



I don't think the arabs want to kill all Jews, they just don't want them in the Middle East. Let's face it, Israel in ME, not mankind's best idea ever.


----------



## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > You cannot make peace with someone that think you have no right to exist.
> ...



The arabs want to beat their wives


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 14, 2012)

Time for Israel to take good care of peaceful Iran.

Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 14, 2012)

And you cannot make peace with an enemy who prefers death over life.




Lipush said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > It's all just a matter of communicating with Palestinians in the only language they understand & respect.  The same language king Hussein communicated to them during Black September.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY
> ...



You cannot make peace with someone that think you have no right to exist.[/QUOTE]


----------



## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> And you cannot make peace with an enemy who prefers death over life.



It's because they ran out of virgins in this world.


----------



## Jos (Apr 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Time for Israel to take good care of peaceful Iran.
> 
> Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World


----------



## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

*United States Founding Father President John Adams*...


> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
> Amazon.com: Roots Of American Order (9781882926992): Russell Kirk, Forrest McDonald: Books



*United States President John Quincy Adams*


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force (Blunt, 29:274).
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books


----------



## Lipush (Apr 14, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > You cannot make peace with someone that think you have no right to exist.
> ...



"I don't think the arabs want to kill all Jews"









Seriously?  

Have you not paying attation that Muslims attack Jews all around the world? Not Israelis. is that "not wanting to kill all Jews" for you?

The Hamas leaders said themselves, Muslim leaders said themselves- "It is not matter of occupation, the Jews are our enemies, they would have been our enemies even without Palestine."

Hamas leader said to an American reporter once, "We would haunt down the Jews even if they leave Palestine".

Have you read their Quran?

Take alook! the truth shall set you free (before it at one point blows up in your face) 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY]Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

I dunno Lips, sure they hate everyone and want all infidels to die ultimately, lol, but for now I think we could get them to calm down if we relocated Israel.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...otherwise WE kill THEM all!


----------



## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

*John F. Kennedy*


> When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland
> 
> I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman [Muslim] misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of [Jewish] labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel
> 
> ...



*Winston Churchill*...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lipush (Apr 14, 2012)

ima said:


> I dunno Lips, sure they hate everyone and want all infidels to die ultimately, lol, but for now I think we could get them to calm down if we relocated Israel.
> .
> .
> .
> ...



"but for now I think we could get them to calm down if we relocated Israel"

That's like a bird cleaning the Eligator's teeth, thinking that since it helps the predator, it won't get eaten.

And sorry, but now. Why sacrifising the Jews? sacrifise yourselves if you want. We're done with that gig


----------



## Jos (Apr 14, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



MEMRI TV?


> *Selective Memri*
> 
> The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.
> 
> ...


Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Skmj8q0Wg]Jews in Iran - Australian TV - 1/2 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

Jos




140,000 Iranian Jews have fled Iran, leaving merely about 10,000, which is virtually zero.

Go to the dunce corner.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2012)

Jews spending the day in Gaza

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2eLFtfeowY]Codepink built a playground at beach camp in Gaza - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

United States President John Quincy Adams


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force (Blunt, 29:274).
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books


----------



## Lipush (Apr 14, 2012)

Jos said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Your point being?....

The word are of an agyptian cleric and the translation is correct.

And the Muslims still want to kill all Jews.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 14, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Jews spending the day in Gaza
> 
> Codepink built a playground at beach camp in Gaza - YouTube


Tinsmore, you are in a heap of trouble. The local Imam says if you don't start getting your mangy carcass to morning prayers he is sending the Religious and Morality Police to visit you.Lord have mercy.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 14, 2012)

Here is a win win peace solution to please both sides.  Israeli's praise LIFE.  Palestinians praise DEATH.  Give both sides what they praise & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY.




ima said:


> I dunno Lips, sure they hate everyone and want all infidels to die ultimately, lol, but for now I think we could get them to calm down if we relocated Israel.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2012)

Better idea.

Everything inside Palestine's borders go to Palestine.

Everything inside Israel's borders go to Israel.


----------



## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Better idea.
> 
> Everything inside Palestine's borders go to Palestine.
> 
> Everything inside Israel's borders go to Israel.



Palestine is Israel.  The Romans invented the word palestine and imposed it on Israel during the Roman Empire 1500 years ago.

Israel is the correct historical name of the indigenous Jews, not palestine.

Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, &#8220;Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.&#8221; 

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, &#8220;Hosanna! &#8220;Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! &#8220;Blessed is the king of Israel!&#8221; 

John 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 14, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Better idea.
> 
> Everything inside Palestine's borders go to Palestine.
> 
> Everything inside Israel's borders go to Israel.



Better idea.
Jews stay in Israel.
Arabs move to an Arab country.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Better idea.
> ...



Why should the Palestinians move out of Palestine.


----------



## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You didn't get the memo that fakestinians are just arabs from egypt and saudi arabia occupying Israel like illegal mexicans in the US?

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 14, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Arabs should move out of Israel.
It's obvious they can't play nicely with others.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 15, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwZTFFPzpE&feature=related]The On-Going Nakba of Palestine ... 63 Years Later - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Apr 15, 2012)

United States President John Quincy Adams


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg]Hamas - "We desire death like you desire life" - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Lipush (Apr 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Better idea.
> 
> Everything inside Palestine's borders go to Palestine.
> 
> Everything inside Israel's borders go to Israel.



Which is different then the situation of todays.....how?


----------



## Lipush (Apr 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



There is no such thing as "Palestine"


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 15, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Better idea.
> ...



Palestine borders Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Israel has no borders.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



"Palestine" is Judea and Samaria, and Gaza.

Israel is all the rest.

Let the Palestinians stay in "Palestine" and the Israelis in Israel.

But wait, We have said that there is no such thing as "Palestine".

bummer.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Israel is west of the Green Line.  Period.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 15, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Indeed, it has been said a lot. That does not make it true.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I do hope you understand that I simply use your own logic.

Just like you say that Israel does not exist, it can be very well said about "Palestine"


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 15, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





> 2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949



Other names for the Armistice Demarcation Line are the green line or 1967 borders. The green line is specifically *not* a border.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 15, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



The "logic" I use is based on actual documents. And you?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


The Jordan river is the actual border.


----------



## Douger (Apr 15, 2012)

I think I already posted this.
Antisemitism is a disease. You catch it from Jews.
People warn their children about the dangers of smoking, drinking and drugging and AIDS. Why not Jews ?


----------



## Douger (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm not defending a blow them up mentality. Treat them like a rattlesnake. Great respect and admiration, keep your distance, don't trust them and if you feel threatened____kill it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 15, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Yes it is. It is the border between Jordan and Palestine.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Same here.


----------



## Lipush (Apr 15, 2012)

Douger said:


> I think I already posted this.
> Antisemitism is a disease. You catch it from Jews.
> People warn their children about the dangers of smoking, drinking and drugging and AIDS. Why not Jews ?



I really hope you're been cynical, if that is not the case then it makes you a VERY dangerous person.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 15, 2012)

HUH???  What are "Palestines" borders?  Did they include Judea?





P F Tinmore said:


> Better idea.
> 
> Everything inside Palestine's borders go to Palestine.
> 
> Everything inside Israel's borders go to Israel.


----------



## JStone (Apr 15, 2012)

Israel appears 2500 times in the Bible and even Quran.

Why does "palestine" not appear even once, not even in the fakestinians' own quran?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 15, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



And yet the Jews are in charge.
Makes you sad, doesn't it?


----------



## JStone (Apr 15, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc]Applause - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Mr. President (Apr 15, 2012)

Palestinians are a glorified special interest group not a people with a country.  They are the remains of an arabic attempt to capitalize on Nazi war efforts against the Jews.  The Arabic KKK.  Just google al-Husseini or the   Waffen SS.  Now that you are better educated carry on.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm still trying to figure out the one about "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land" when the first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS & there were no Muslims at all, let alone Palestinian Muslims until after the 7th century AD.  Can someone please educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing?


----------



## JStone (Apr 15, 2012)

Mr. President said:


> Palestinians are a glorified special interest group not a people with a country.  They are the remains of an arabic attempt to capitalize on Nazi war efforts against the Jews.  The Arabic KKK.  Just google al-Husseini or the   Waffen SS.  Now that you are better educated carry on.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUEx1cKUlg]1941 The Grand Mufti meets Hitler - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2012)

JStone said:


> Israel appears 2500 times in the Bible and even Quran.
> 
> Why does "palestine" not appear even once, not even in the fakestinians' own quran?


It also appears in the Torah.  And in that book, it states the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back down to earth to create the state of Israel.  According to the Torah, only God can create the jewish homeland.


----------



## Mr. President (Apr 15, 2012)

Yes because if Israel took all the land that belonged to it in the Days the torah was written there would be a lot more pissed off Arabs.


----------



## JStone (Apr 15, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Israel appears 2500 times in the Bible and even Quran.
> ...



Palestine is a Roman word.  It does not appear in the Torah


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2012)

JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


I was referring to Israel.


----------



## JStone (Apr 15, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 16, 2012)

Mr. President said:


> Yes because if Israel took all the land that belonged to it in the Days the torah was written there would be a lot more pissed off Arabs.



What happened 3000 years ago is totally irrelevant. As an example, 3000 years ago, there were no Jews in Florida. Should we boot them all out then?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 16, 2012)

ima said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > Yes because if Israel took all the land that belonged to it in the Days the torah was written there would be a lot more pissed off Arabs.
> ...



Maybe you'd like to fire rockets at them?


----------



## Mr. President (Apr 16, 2012)

ima said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > Yes because if Israel took all the land that belonged to it in the Days the torah was written there would be a lot more pissed off Arabs.
> ...



No Shit Sherlock.  Kinda why the Arabs don't have a claim on the land.  Thanks for joining my side!


----------



## JStone (Apr 16, 2012)

ima said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > Yes because if Israel took all the land that belonged to it in the Days the torah was written there would be a lot more pissed off Arabs.
> ...



IMA DUNCE



Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert&#39;sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 16, 2012)

Fact is that ISRAEL IS.  You can accept it or eat your heart out over it.  Either way is okay by me.





loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 16, 2012)

Mr. President said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. President said:
> ...



All I'm saying is whomever was wherever in that area should have been allowed to stay, you don't start a  country by kicking a whole section of people off the land they owned at the time. Just saying.


----------



## JStone (Apr 16, 2012)

ima said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



IMA DUNCE



Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History

The Arab Invasion of the State of Israel 15 May 1948


> On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel.  They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea.  The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack
> 
> Between May 1948 and January 1949, the State of Israel fought to retain its independence against the combined forces of six Arab armies.  Following the initial Arab invasion, the Israelis reopened the road to Jerusalem, won control of the Coastal Plain, secured the upper Galilee, and drove the Egyptians from the Negev.
> 
> ...


 
Yale University Press...


> Sir Martin Gilbert is the author of more than eighty books, including the six-volume authorized biography of Winston Churchill, the twin histories First World War and Second World War, Israel: A History, The Holocaust, A History of the Twentieth Century in three volumes, and nine pioneering historical atlases, including Atlas of Jewish History and Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. In 1995, he was knighted for services to British history and international relations, and in 2009 he was appointed to the British Governments Iraq War Inquiry. He lives in London.
> 
> In Ishmael's House - Gilbert, Martin - Yale University Press


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 16, 2012)

Good point.  Tell it to the Arab countries who made their Palestinians refugees from their homelands.





ima said:


> Mr. President said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Good point.  Tell it to the Arab countries who made their Palestinians refugees from their homelands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So basically your point is that the arabs in gaza were all airlifted there from other arab countries? And none were indigenous to the area?


----------



## Lipush (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Good point.  Tell it to the Arab countries who made their Palestinians refugees from their homelands.
> ...



Were did all those Arabs who became "Palestinians" came from? Arab countries, of course


----------



## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



So you actually believe that NO arabs were pushed off their land in what is now Israel? NONE?


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Depends on the nature of the crimes they committed. That has to be taken into account.


----------



## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...



Ok, so according to you, if you commit a crime you lose your house and land. Hmmm... Is Israel a democracy or a dictatorship?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 17, 2012)

HUH??? "Their land"?  WHEN did Israel become "their land"?





ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> HUH??? "Their land"?  WHEN did Israel become "their land"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The people owned house, olive orchards... no? Or are you trying to say that they were all squatters on Jewish land or something like that?


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > HUH??? "Their land"?  WHEN did Israel become "their land"?
> ...


You betcha they're squatters.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 17, 2012)

YES, they are squatters on Israel's land.  If you don't believe that please tell us when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that you & your ilk claim Israel is stealing?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > HUH??? "Their land"?  WHEN did Israel become "their land"?
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> YES, they are squatters on Israel's land.  If you don't believe that please tell us when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that you & your ilk claim Israel is stealing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So since it's always been Israel's land, maybe you're the guy to see about a map of Israel from 1915. 

Also, what was the purpose of dispossessing all these people of their houses and land, to create an ethnically pure country? Dunno, but I seem to remember the Germans already tried that.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > YES, they are squatters on Israel's land.  If you don't believe that please tell us when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that you & your ilk claim Israel is stealing?
> ...



Go back to egypt and saudi arabia where you worthless sacks of shit came from!

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > YES, they are squatters on Israel's land.  If you don't believe that please tell us when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that you & your ilk claim Israel is stealing?
> ...



I don't know if you noticed, but Israel isn't an ethnically "clean" country. About 20% of Israel's population are Arabs.But as always you do not disappoint and clearly don't let the facts confused you.

You're talking about people dispersing and dislocating however the dislocating and discussing was done during a war. Those people who talk about the ones with houses and lands and territories for fighting with a single minded purpose and that purpose was to kill the Jews. Therefore fighting to  (in their own words) "drive the Jews into the sea".

I don't know if you understand anything about tactics or warfare, however it seems really basic to me that if you control a territory it would be extremely wise to dislocate the people that want to kill you who currently reside in this territory.

I don't know why you so fixed about them map thing? There is no map of sovereign Israel in 1915. However there is also no map of sovereign Palestine in 1915.
Actually there is no map of sovereign Palestine from anytime in history, this is due the fact that a sovereign Palestine never existed. No amount of maps or lack there of would disprove this fact.


----------



## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



So basically, what happens in war is war, too bad? Then why are the (mostly) Jews getting all their paintings back that were taken from them during WWII?

As for the map, I never claimed that palestine has existed for 3000 years like some people here claim about Israel.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



You worthless arab sacks of shit must leave Jewish Israel and return to egypt and saudi arabia where you came from.

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> You worthless arab sacks of shit must leave Jewish Israel and return to egypt and saudi arabia where you came from.


The same thing can be said for zionists.

Not one country on the planet recognizes Israels right to that land and it's been that way for the last 50 years.  Think about that.  The whole world disagrees with your position, so what does that make you?  A lunatic completely detached from reality.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > You worthless arab sacks of shit must leave Jewish Israel and return to egypt and saudi arabia where you came from.
> ...



Jews have prior possession of Israel dating back 3000 years and have never relinquished sovereignty.  Moreover, no other indigenous nation except the Jewish nation has ever been established in Israel for 3 millenia.

Basic property law: First in time, first in right.

Your history and law lessons for the day, gratis


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > You worthless arab sacks of shit must leave Jewish Israel and return to egypt and saudi arabia where you came from.
> ...



I would like to see you prove that.
Where do you get your information? And how do you know what *all *countries in the world have to say about it?


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



No one has claimed that Israel exists for 3000 years continuously. Israel has existed 3000 years ago.

One very clear distinction about the Jews during World War II is that the Jews were not fighting the Germans. The Jews did not try to drive the Germans out.

The Germans and Russians were fighting each other, you think that the Germans got Back the property Russians looted when they conquered Berlin?


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



Incorrect.

Israel has indeed existed for 3000 years, though, occupied for many of those years.  

Egypt was occupied for 1,000 years by the Greeks and Romans and, guess what, there is still an Egypt.

Jews are the ONLY nation EVER established in Israel for the past 3 millenia to today.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> I would like to see you prove that.
> Where do you get your information? And how do you know what *all *countries in the world have to say about it?


Why do you think that area is referred to as, the "occupied territories"?  Even the Israeli Supreme Court refers to it as such.  And there is only one way to solve an "occupation" and that is to end it.   




> _It is unlawful under the Fourth Geneva Convention for an occupying power to transfer parts of its own population into the territory it occupies. This means that international humanitarian law prohibits the establishment of settlements, as these are a form of population transfer into occupied territory. Any measure designed to expand or consolidate settlements is also illegal. Confiscation of land to build or expand settlements is similarly prohibited._


Israel is in violation of over 60 UN resolutions and not one of them supports Israel's claim to that land.  Find me one country that has recognized that land as Israels.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> Israel has indeed existed for 3000 years, though, occupied for many of those years.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely delusional.

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it won't come true.  

I find your narcissism disgusting!


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Incorrect.
> ...



First master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html

After, have an adult with a functioning brain open a history book for you.

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert'sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

It would seem that I was wrong, and someone does claim that he said it was in existence for 3000 years. 
I however don't hold such opinion. I believe that the biblical kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in about 720 B.C.E. and thus ceased to exist.
Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I believe I stated it's before, but I would say so again: Israel's right for existence has nothing to do with the biblical Kingdom of Israel.
None of the Zionists who immigrated to Israel before its inception claimed that they somehow "deserve" Israel. They worked hard to achieve what we have today and none of it was *given *due to "ancestral rights".


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> It would seem that I was wrong, and someone does claim that he said it was in existence for 3000 years.
> I however don't hold such opinion. I believe that the biblical kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in about 720 B.C.E. and thus ceased to exist.
> Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...



Wikipedia?  Isn't that where monkeys can write? Elevate your scholarship.

The Jews referred to their country as Eretz Yisrael [Land of Israel] since 1000 BCE.

In fact, Eretz Yisrael appears on coins minted by the British during the British Mandate through 1948.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to see you prove that.
> ...



oh, you are talking about the Palestinian territories.
I thought you were talking about the whole territory which is Israel.
Apologies.

Well on that issue,First of all the Gaza Strip is NOT occupied since 2008 I think.

Second the so-called occupation would have ended a long time ago if the agenda of the people who reside in the Palestinian territories would not have been the total annihilation of Israel.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> It would seem that I was wrong, and someone does claim that he said it was in existence for 3000 years.
> I however don't hold such opinion. I believe that the biblical kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in about 720 B.C.E. and thus ceased to exist.
> Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


I think this whole "right to exist" issue is a moot point.  They exist.  They're there.  And they're not going anywhere.  It's a done deal. There's really no reason to talk about that anymore.  

Unfortunately for the zionists, a lot of that hard work included acts of jewish terrorism from groups like Irgun (who is now the Likud Party).


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



There are no "palestinian" territories.  Did you read this in wikipedia, too?

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> 
> The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
> Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> oh, you are talking about the Palestinian territories.
> I thought you were talking about the whole territory which is Israel.
> Apologies.
> 
> ...


Israel controls everything going in to (and out of) Gaza.  It is considered a "belligerant occupation".  Palestinian's do not want to annihilate Israel, that is a myth.  Israeli's are the "occupiers", which means they're the aggressors.  And aggressors are not victims.  If Israel really wanted peace, they wouldn't have broken the ceasefire.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> There are no "palestinian" territories.  Did you read this in wikipedia, too?
> 
> Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...


At least you're now in the right area of history, but there was actually 4 Mandates, with Israel's being one of them.  Trans-Jordan being another, that was NOT GIVEN to the jews.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > There are no "palestinian" territories.  Did you read this in wikipedia, too?
> ...



Trans-Jordan was part of the original mandate for Israel.  The British exercised the option to give it to the hashemites from the hejaz for their support of the War.

Now, you know


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > oh, you are talking about the Palestinian territories.
> ...



I would really like to know where you get your information from.

Israel controls what ever comes in and goes out of Gaza through Israel, and that's their right.
The Egyptian border is wide open and Palestinians move whatever they want over there.

Palestinians don't want to annihilate Israel? You obviously didn't read the Hamas charter:



> *Article 6* Hamas is uniquely Palestinian,[20] and "strives to raise the banner of Allah* over every inch of Palestine*"[12][17]
> *Article 8*  The Hamas document reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood's slogan of "Allah  is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, _jihad_ its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief."[12][17]
> *Article 13* There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.[17]
> *Article 14* The liberation of Palestine is the personal duty of every Palestinian.[17]


Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israel ended its occupation of Gaza in 2008, and got thousands of rockets on its cities as a response.




> If Israel really wanted peace, they wouldn't have broken the ceasefire



What cease-fire? 
What cease-fire agreement do you think Israel broken?
During the last year maybe more there is a constant lunch of rockets into Israeli territory.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _Palestinian's do not want to annihilate Israel, that is a myth._


Of course! They just want to plunder it bare and, as a bonus, murder jews here and there. What would be palistanians plundering, if Israel were annihilated?!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _Palestinian's do not want to annihilate Israel, that is a myth._
> ...


Oh shut-up you little bitchy troll!

I bet you'd be a tossed salad in prison?


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Shouldn't you be trying to improve your level of literacy rather than posting on a  messageboard?   http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> I would really like to know where you get your information from.
> 
> Israel controls what ever comes in and goes out of Gaza through Israel, and that's their right.
> The Egyptian border is wide open and Palestinians move whatever they want over there.


You didn't hear about the Israeli's attacking humanitarian ships in international waters off the coast of Gaza?





Wolverine1984 said:


> Israel ended its occupation of Gaza in 2008, and got thousands of rockets on its cities as a response.


Gaza is one big open air prison, because of the Israeli's.





Wolverine1984 said:


> What cease-fire?
> What cease-fire agreement do you think Israel broken?
> During the last year maybe more there is a constant lunch of rockets into Israeli territory.


The rockets stopped for 4 months, then Israel launched a raid into Gaza killing a couple of it's leaders.  Then rockets attacks went back up.  Palestinian's do have a right to defend themselves, as long as they attack military targets.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Shouldn't you be trying to improve your level of literacy rather than posting on a  messageboard?   http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


You need to prove I'm illiterate, before you start acting like I am.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Trans-Jordan was part of the original mandate for Israel.  The British exercised the option to give it to the hashemites from the hejaz for their support of the War.
> 
> Now, you know


Wrong.  Trans-Jordan was a completely different Mandate and it was for the arabs, not Israel.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Trans-Jordan was part of the original mandate for Israel.  The British exercised the option to give it to the hashemites from the hejaz for their support of the War.
> ...



First, learn basic spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html

After, have an adult with a functional brain open a history book for you.

Trans-Jordan was 80% of Mandate "Palestine" ratified by the League of Nations, which the British elected to give to the hashemites from the hejaz who are the jordanian monarchy today.

Your history lesson for the day.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Trans-Jordan was part of the original mandate for Israel.  The British exercised the option to give it to the hashemites from the hejaz for their support of the War.
> ...



I'm sorry , but it is a well known fact that Transjordan was part of the mandate.



> The *Emirate of Transjordan* (Arabic: &#1573;&#1605;&#1575;&#1585;&#1577; &#1588;&#1585;&#1602; &#1575;&#1604;&#1571;&#1585;&#1583;&#1606; _&#702;Im&#257;rat Sharq al-&#702;Urdun_), also hyphenated as *Trans-Jordan* and previously known as *Transjordania* or *Trans-Jordania*, was a Hashemite ruled British protectorate established in April 1921, together with the Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq, following the Cairo Conference.* The territory was added to the British Mandate for Palestine*, but had a fully autonomous governing system from Mandatory Palestine.


Transjordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As i said before , i would really like to know where you get your information from , because as you can see it is proven false.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


First thing palistanian agitpropsters do is stifling freedom of speech, of course.


loinboy said:


> _I bet you'd be a tossed salad in prison?_


Dismissing that irrelevant school insult attempt, is it supposed to be "_Palestinians_" instead of "_Palestinian's_" above?


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



There were only 3 Mandates established for the Levant: Syria [incl Lebanon], controlled by France, and Iraq and "Palestine" controlled by the British, which became known as the British Mandate.

Jordan was 80% of the original "Palestine" Mandate that eventuated in Israeli statehood without Jordan.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > I would really like to know where you get your information from.
> ...



What about when they fire rockets at Israeli school buses?
Is that okay with you?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> There were only 3 Mandates established for the Levant: Syria, controlled by France, and Iraq and "Palestine" controlled by the British, which became known as the British Mandate.
> 
> Jordan was 80% of the original "Palestine" Mandate that eventuated in Israeli statehood without Jordan.


No it was not.



> _Political rights to self-determination as a polity for Arabs were guaranteed by the League of Nations in four other mandates  in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and later Trans-Jordan [today Jordan]. _


You can't re-write history, bitch-boy!



> _Article 2Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights5 of the Mandate for Palestine entitled the Mandatory to change the terms of the Mandate in the territory east of the Jordan River:
> 
> In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provision of this Mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions ...​
> Great Britain activated this option in the above-mentioned memorandum of September 16, 1922, which the Mandatory sent to the League of Nations and which the League subsequently approved  making it a legally binding integral part of the Mandate.
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


Some Palisimians and their supporters will argue that there are no civilians in Israel, even babies, and all are fair game. MJB and Roudy and Amir will back up my statement, from previous boards.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > There were only 3 Mandates established for the Levant: Syria, controlled by France, and Iraq and "Palestine" controlled by the British, which became known as the British Mandate.
> ...




There were 3 Mandates established by the San Remo conference for the Levant: Syria [incl Lebanon], administered by France; and Iraq and "Palestine" [Jordan was incl. in the Mandate for Palestine] administered by the British

Now, you know, dummy


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > There were only 3 Mandates established for the Levant: Syria, controlled by France, and Iraq and "Palestine" controlled by the British, which became known as the British Mandate.
> ...



Same old saw.

A technique of propaganda called "turnspeak"


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> What about when they fire rockets at Israeli school buses?
> Is that okay with you?


No, it is not okay.  That is a crime and the people responsible should be held accountable for it.  Innocent Israeli's have a right to live in peace.  Hamas needs to do more in controlling Palestinian rebel groups in their territory.  Firing rockets into Israeli neighborhoods is un-acceptable.  Even if some of these neighborhoods are illegal.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What about when they fire rockets at Israeli school buses?
> ...



What's a palestinian? You don't even know, dummy


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Same old saw.
> 
> A technique of propaganda called "turnspeak"


It's not propaganda, that's the official wording of the law.

You're throwing out red herrings.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Same old saw.
> ...



Show us where Jordan is a separate Mandate in the San Remo Resolution, dummy


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## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _Why do you think that area is referred to as, the "occupied territories"?_


Arab money talks?


loinboy said:


> _Even the Israeli Supreme Court refers to it as such._


Judicial solidarity with the clueless ICJ?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...





> Israel controls what ever comes in and goes out of Gaza through Israel, and that's their right.
> The Egyptian border is wide open and Palestinians move whatever they want over there.



How about Gaza's sea port. Who controls that?


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



You're not a muslime so you couldn't live in Gaza for very long. Now, don't you feel dumb?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> It would seem that I was wrong, and someone does claim that he said it was in existence for 3000 years.
> I however don't hold such opinion. I believe that the biblical kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians in about 720 B.C.E. and thus ceased to exist.
> Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...





> They worked hard to achieve what we have today...



And virtually all of it was illegal.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > It would seem that I was wrong, and someone does claim that he said it was in existence for 3000 years.
> ...



When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling.

Barack Obama to UN General Assembly (September 23)... 


> Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States. And efforts to threaten or kill Israelis will do nothing to help the Palestinian people. The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...rks-president-united-nations-general-assembly


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...





> oh, you are talking about the Palestinian territories.
> I thought you were talking about the whole territory which is Israel.



The 1949 armistice agreements set up three occupations. Jordan occupied the West Bank, Egypt occupied Gaza, and Israel occupied the rest. I don't see where that has ever changed.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Armistice agreements were non-binding.

Now, you know, doofus.  No rep points for you


"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale


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## SAYIT (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



We have morons right here on this board (you know who you are) who insist that Israel's Bubbies and babies are legit targets of their "peaceful" Arab neighbors.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



If pestilinians eagerly sacrifice their own children as suicide bombers, how can they be expected to respect human life?


----------



## SAYIT (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



It really burns your butt that Hamas can't get weapons through that port, eh Tinhorn? You have company in your suffering ... Hamas is pissed off, too.


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## SAYIT (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Even worse, they have an international cheering section, including the aforementioned morons right here on this board, exhorting those hapless "Palestinians" to toss another generation of their kids into the fire (just to satisfy the moron's lust for Jewish blood). Sadly, Pal PM Fayyad blew off a scheduled meeting with his Israeli counterpart because he was afraid of the reaction to any peace talks with Israel on the "Arab Street," effectively tossing a few more Pal kids onto that fire. Pathetic.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Palestinian Muslim Israeli Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh: "The Pro-Palestinian's Real Agenda


> The so-called pro-Palestinian &#8220;junta&#8221; on the campuses has nothing to offer other than hatred and de-legitimization of Israel. If these folks really cared about the Palestinians, they would be campaigning for good government and for the promotion of values of democracy and freedom in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Their hatred for Israel and what it stands for has blinded them to a point where they no longer care about the real interests of the Palestinians, namely the need to end the anarchy and lawlessness, and to dismantle all the armed gangs that are responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent Palestinians over the past few years.
> 
> The majority of these activists openly admit that they have never visited Israel or the Palestinian territories. They don&#8217;t know -and don&#8217;t want to know - that Jews and Arabs here are still doing business together and studying together and meeting with each other on a daily basis because they are destined to live together in this part of the world. They don&#8217;t want to hear that despite all the problems life continues and that ordinary Arab and Jewish parents who wake up in the morning just want to send their children to school and go to work before returning home safely and happily.
> 
> ...


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Bill Clinton offered Arafat gaza and the west bank plus part of Jerusalem plus $30 BILLION in foreign aid, and Arafat rejected the offer.  Even the Saudis were shocked and Prince Bandar screamed at Arafat that he committed a crime against the pals and the whole middle east.

That says it all


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



What good are more fake peace talks?


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



Israel has a $200 billion GDP and the 40th largest economy in the world.  Let the pals rot.


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## SAYIT (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



I will paraphrase William Wallace in Braveheart: "Do you know what happens if we don't take risks for peace? Nothing." 
Armchair warroirs like you seem willing or even eager to sacrifice every hapless "Palestinian" just so you can spend your time (over 14,000 posts and 0 respect? That's gotta be some kinda record in futility) on an obscure message board, whining about those "evil Joooos." Come on dude ... get a life.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> If pestilinians eagerly sacrifice their own children as suicide bombers, how can they be expected to respect human life?


You support starving their children, you're no different than they are. And as far as human life goes, your pretty fucked!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Show us where Jordan is a separate Mandate in the San Remo Resolution, dummy


I did.  Go back and read it.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> You're not a muslime so you couldn't live in Gaza for very long. Now, don't you feel dumb?


That wasn't the question, idiot!


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Show us where Jordan is a separate Mandate in the San Remo Resolution, dummy
> ...



You didn't even know what the San Remo Resolution is until I told you.  Jordan is not a mandate.  Too funny


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


Peace talks are tools for the Israelis to show the world just how stupid and simple minded the Palisimians really are. It's getting late. Say goodnight Gracie.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > SAYIT said:
> ...



Peace talks just waste time while Israel kills more Palestinians and steals more land.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You didn't get the memo that pestilinians are really egyptians and saudis who stole Jewish land in Israel?

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Tinmore, if you ain't going to say goodnight,Gracie, here's some porn for you to look at.

MODEST SWIMWEAR: Traditional Islamic Clothing for Women, Men & Kids, Buy Modern Muslim Apparel, Designer Kurtis, Fashion Abayas & Jilbabs, Hijab, Skirts, Scarfs & Shawls Online


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Goodnight, Gracie.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 18, 2012)

Great post Stone.  "When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state"?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling



JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


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## ima (Apr 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Great post Stone.  "When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state"?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling



I think they all missed something because the Jews took the region by force, and are only able to keep it through force, fences and killing.


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## Mr. President (Apr 18, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Great post Stone.  "When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state"?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling
> ...



No no no America and allied Europe took it and gave it to who we wanted to have it.


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## Lipush (Apr 18, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Great post Stone.  "When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state"?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling
> ...



More like, The arabs started a war to throw the Jews into the sea, the Jews won and gained more land.

Poteto Potato


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## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Great post Stone.  "When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state"?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling
> ...



IMA DUNCE


*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. &#8220;Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


 
*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it&#8217;s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it&#8217;s own right; it asserted it&#8217;s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 18, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Great post Stone.  "When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state"?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling
> ...



You are a bit funny aren't you?

Most of the countries who are in existence today are keeping their territory through force.
What prevents from Mexico to expand into the US? Is it not happening because Mexicans are just happy people who are happy with what they have? I think not.

You have zero credible information that supports your case.
Even once I have not seen you quote a source or provide a link, all you have is baseless speculations. Nothing more.


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## ima (Apr 18, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



You think that the only reason Mexico doesn't attack us is because we'd beat their asses to a pulp?


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## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

Maybe, if we all get together and beat their wives they'll like us more


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 18, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Indeed I do.
You think that it isn't true? How good that you provided a thorough explanation to your point of view.

Why don't they attack then?

I brought up Mexico only as example, in general what do you think keeps poor countries from attacking rich countries? Definitely not care bears.


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## ima (Apr 18, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



So in your world, Mexico can only attack poorer countries. So why isn't Mexico at war? There's tons of countries right around them that are much poorer than they are. Please explain.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 18, 2012)

The Palestinians wound up the biggest losers thanks to their Arab brothers in Arab countries convincing them to leave until after the Arabs drive Israel into the sea.  And the funny part is the Palestinians blame Israel for their current situation.





Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 18, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Great post Stone.  "When did it become illegal for Jews to live in their 3000 year homeland and sovereign state"?  Maybe, I missed a legal ruling
> ...



Wrong, the Jews reclaimed their homeland with industry and diplomacy and when the Arabs tried to take it from them by force, the Jews defended it.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 18, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> Wrong, the Jews reclaimed their homeland with industry and diplomacy and when the Arabs tried to take it from them by force, the Jews defended it.


If you have to lie to make your point, then you don't really have a point to make. And you certainly cannot re-write history.  This is what actually happened...



> _Israel was not created by the U.N., but *came into being on May 14, 1948, when the Zionist leadership unilaterally, and with no legal authority, declared Israels existence, with no specification as to the extent of the new states borders. *In a moment, the Zionists had declared that Arabs no longer the owners of their land  it now belonged to the Jews. In an instant, the Zionists had declared that the majority Arabs of Palestine were now second-class citizens in the new Jewish State.
> 
> The Arabs, needless to say, did not passively accept this development, and neighboring Arab countries declared war on the Zionist regime in order to prevent such a grave injustice against the majority inhabitants of Palestine.
> 
> *It must be emphasized that the Zionists had no right to most of the land they declared as part of Israel, while the Arabs did. *This war, therefore, was not, as is commonly asserted in mainstream commentary, an act of aggression by the Arab states against Israel. Rather,* the Arabs were acting in defense of their rights, to prevent the Zionists from illegally and unjustly taking over Arab lands and otherwise disenfranchising the Arab population. *The act of aggression was the Zionist leaderships unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel, and* the Zionists use of violence to enforce their aims both prior to and subsequent to that declaration*._


Israel was created with the use of jewish terrorism.


> _Israel implemented a policy of ethnic cleansing.* 700,000 Arab Palestinians were either forced from their homes or fled out of fear of further massacres, such as had occurred in the village of Deir Yassin shortly before the Zionist declaration. *These Palestinians have never been allowed to return to their homes and land, despite it being internationally recognized and encoded in international law that such refugees have an inherent right of return._


Funny how zionists constantly bitch about their right to return to their acestoral homeland (which I dispute, because the diaspora never happened), but they won't give the same right to Palestinian's to return to their homes.  That's another reason Israeli's are so fucked.  They're the biggest hypocrites on the planet.


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## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong, the Jews reclaimed their homeland with industry and diplomacy and when the Arabs tried to take it from them by force, the Jews defended it.
> ...



You think too much about sucking dick http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

Jews have had a continuous existence in Israel for 3000 years and no other indigenous nation except the Jewish nation has existed in Israel for 3 millenia.

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History and History of Jerusalem

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert&#39;sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


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## Billo_Really (Apr 18, 2012)

JStone said:


> Jews have had a continuous existence in Israel for 3000... years


That's right.  Jews have  been living in that area all along.



JStone said:


> ...and no other indigenous nation except the Jewish nation has existed in Israel for 3 millenia.


That's wrong.  Arabs have been living there as well, for as long as the jews.

And you know what, they got along with each other.  But that all changed when the narcissistic zionists showed up...


> _Although Arabs were a majority in Palestine prior to the creation of the state of Israel, there had always been a Jewish population, as well.* For the most part, Jewish Palestinians got along with their Arab neighbors.** This began to change with the onset of the Zionist movement,* because the Zionists rejected the right of the Palestinians to self-determination and wanted Palestine for their own, to create a &#8220;Jewish State&#8221; in a region where Arabs were the majority and owned most of the land._


Zionists are about as fucked neocon's.



> If a zionist and a neocon were drowning in front of me 10 feet from a river bank,
> I'd have a tough decision to make:
> *"Do I take a walk, or take a nap?"*​


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## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Jews have had a continuous existence in Israel for 3000... years
> ...



You think too much about sucking dick http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong, the Jews reclaimed their homeland with industry and diplomacy and when the Arabs tried to take it from them by force, the Jews defended it.
> ...



You post a link to some one who is every bit as ignorant and bigoted as you are, but perhaps not as stupid.  

Your link claims it is a myth that Jews and Arabs had always been in conflict, but how did he miss this?



> There were pogroms too in the nineteenth century in the Arab and Islamic worlds. There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[22] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[22] In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. This is known as the Allahdad incident. It was only by forcible conversion that a massacre was averted.[23]
> 
> The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when an Italian monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city. All were found guilty. The consuls of England, France and Austria as well as Ottoman authorities, Christians, Muslims and Jews all played a great role in this affair.[24] Following the Damascus affair, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa. As well as Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), pogroms of varying degrees of intensity occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 190102), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 190107), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).[25]



Pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read further and you will learn that Arab pogroms against Jews had been going on for over a thousand years in all the Arab lands in the ME and North Africa.  

Secondly, the dumbass you linked to stated, "General Assembly resolutions are not considered legally binding (only Security Council resolutions are)."  This is true concerning matters between member states, but the General Assembly has jurisdiction over internal UN matters, and since Palestine was a UN protectorate at the time of the Partition resolution, the matter of Partition was an entirely internal matter.  

How stupid do you have to be to believe that illiterate tenant farmers began attacking Jews because they heard some of them aspired to found a Jewish homeland in Palestine?  The fact is that the same hatred and fear of Jews that led to over a thousand years of pogroms against Jews in all Arab lands led the Palestinian Arabs to hate and fear the Jewish immigrants.  The massacres of Jews in Hebron and Safed were started by rumors that the Jews were attacking the al Aksa mosque, the same exact kind of incitement that led to Arab massacres of Jews for over a thousand years and the exact incitement that led to the second intifada.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 18, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> You post a link to some one who is every bit as ignorant and bigoted as you are, but perhaps not as stupid.


You project ignorance and bigotry on others, while you demonstrate those same traits in spades.  



toomuchtime_ said:


> Your link claims it is a myth that Jews and Arabs had always been in conflict, but how did he miss this?


You're taking what was stated out of context, just so you can continue your campaign of hate.   



toomuchtime_ said:


> Secondly, the dumbass you linked to stated, "General Assembly resolutions are not considered legally binding (only Security Council resolutions are)."  This is true concerning matters between member states, but the General Assembly has jurisdiction over internal UN matters, and since Palestine was a UN protectorate at the time of the Partition resolution, the matter of Partition was an entirely internal matter.


You want to explain that a little bit more?  Internal to who?



toomuchtime_ said:


> How stupid do you have to be to believe that illiterate tenant farmers began attacking Jews because they heard some of them aspired to found a Jewish homeland in Palestine?


Shove that strawman argument up your ass!  I made it very clear (as well as that link), that the arabs idigenous to that area were responding to their homes being taken from them through the use of jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.



toomuchtime_ said:


> The fact is that the same hatred and fear of Jews that led to over a thousand years of pogroms against Jews in all Arab lands led the Palestinian Arabs to hate and fear the Jewish immigrants.  The massacres of Jews in Hebron and Safed were started by rumors that the Jews were attacking the al Aksa mosque, the same exact kind of incitement that led to Arab massacres of Jews for over a thousand years and the exact incitement that led to the second intifada.


You and your ilk are the only ones I see spewing racist hatred of others.  And you spew so much of it, that your posts confirm zionists initiated the violence against arab land owners in that area.  Because your posts show an absolute contempt and disdain towards muslims and that's the kind of mindset "home invaders" have when they walk into someone else's home and start telling the owner it's your home now.

People that do respect international law and democratic principles, don't say the things you  say.  But what's the most fucked thing about you people, is that none of you, have the balls to take responsibility for your role in the violence.  The blame is always on "them", never "you".  You never own up to the bad things you've done to them.  And that's the mark of a coward!


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## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > You post a link to some one who is every bit as ignorant and bigoted as you are, but perhaps not as stupid.
> ...



You know much about posting about sucking dick http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

About international law, not so much


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## MJB12741 (Apr 18, 2012)

Bless you Loinboy.  I agree.  Not once have those Zionists acknowledged their crimes against the Palestinains for provoking them into violence with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions to keep the Palestinians captives in Israel.  And then those Zionists just can't seem to understand WHY they are thanked with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Shame on Israel for not treating the Palestinians with the same Arab love, justice & respect they are so well accustomed to & so well deserve.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > You post a link to some one who is every bit as ignorant and bigoted as you are, but perhaps not as stupid.
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 19, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > You post a link to some one who is every bit as ignorant and bigoted as you are, but perhaps not as stupid.
> ...



Bullshit.  Are you just going to dismiss all facts that don't support what you want to believe?   Fundamental to your whole belief system about this conflict is the idea that Arab violence against Jews was all in response to actions by the Jews, but the facts I presented facts that showed Arab attacks against Jews had been going on in the region for over a thousand years, and the incitements to the attacks were the same centuries ago as they were in the 20th century.  Moreover, verses from the Quran and Hadith encourage hatred, fear and violence against Jews and these verses continue to be cited today to stir these feelings and actions among Arabs in the region.  All the available data indicates that when the Jewish immigrants arrived in Palestine, they were met by an Arab population  that was predisposed to regard them with fear and hatred and that had a long history of committing pogroms against Jews.



loinboy said:


> [You want to explain that a little bit more?  Internal to who?



Idiot, Palestine was an internal UN matter, not an issue between member states, so the General Assembly, not the Security Council had jurisdiction over it.  The area had been ceded by the Ottoman Empire to the allies after WWI, the allies gave it to the League of Nations to hold as a protectorate and it later became a UN protectorate.  As such, the General Assembly could do whatever it wanted with the land as long as it didn't violate the UN Charter.  





toomuchtime_ said:


> How stupid do you have to be to believe that illiterate tenant farmers began attacking Jews because they heard some of them aspired to found a Jewish homeland in Palestine?





loinboy said:


> [Shove that strawman argument up your ass!  I made it very clear (as well as that link), that the arabs idigenous to that area were responding to their homes being taken from them through the use of jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.



More bullshit.  Neither Irgun nor Lehi took homes away from any Arabs in Palestine, indigenous or not.  The were organized to fight the British, not the Arabs, in order to get the British to leave Palestine, but in response to hundreds of Jews being killed by Arabs during the Arab uprising that began in 1936, they retaliated according to an eye for an eye principle.



> The first operations began around April 1936, and by the end of World War II, more than 250 Arabs had been killed. The trend of activities was an attempt to respond "an eye for an eye" in the form of violent operations against Arab violence, and often to match the form of retaliation or its location to correspond to the attack that provoked it. A number of examples:
> 
> After an Arab shooting at Carmel school in Tel Aviv, which resulted in the death of a Jewish child, Irgun members attacked an Arab neighborhood near Kerem Hatemanim in Tel Aviv, killing one Arab man and injuring another.
> 
> ...



Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As the violence of the Arab uprising intensified, Irgun's retaliations also intensified, but in every case, Irgun attacks against Arabs were in response to and were retaliation for Arab attacks against Jews.




toomuchtime_ said:


> The fact is that the same hatred and fear of Jews that led to over a thousand years of pogroms against Jews in all Arab lands led the Palestinian Arabs to hate and fear the Jewish immigrants.  The massacres of Jews in Hebron and Safed were started by rumors that the Jews were attacking the al Aksa mosque, the same exact kind of incitement that led to Arab massacres of Jews for over a thousand years and the exact incitement that led to the second intifada.





loinboy said:


> [You and your ilk are the only ones I see spewing racist hatred of others.  And you spew so much of it, that your posts confirm zionists initiated the violence against arab land owners in that area.  Because your posts show an absolute contempt and disdain towards muslims and that's the kind of mindset "home invaders" have when they walk into someone else's home and start telling the owner it's your home now.



You haven't seen any racist hatred in any of my posts.  What you have seen and what makes you so upset are facts you don't like, facts that contradict the things you have decided to believe in.



loinboy said:


> People that do respect international law and democratic principles, don't say the things you  say.  But what's the most fucked thing about you people, is that none of you, have the balls to take responsibility for your role in the violence.  The blame is always on "them", never "you".  You never own up to the bad things you've done to them.  And that's the mark of a coward!



You are describing yourself here.  It's you who is trying to blame everything on the Jews while ignoring any facts that indicate the Arabs are to blame for anything.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 19, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



First you did not answer my question.

second, Mexico is not at war with other more poor countries because those countries also protect their territory with force.


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## ima (Apr 19, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



So Mexico couldn't take Guatamala? Haiti? Belize?... Gimme a break!
And the US could take Mexico, or Haiti, or bermuda, Jamaica, Canada.... So why don't they attack?


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 19, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



You are still avoiding answering my question, and yet you expect me to answer your questions, don't you think that's a bit rude?


You suggest that Israel is at fault by protecting its territory with the means of force.


I told you that all countries control their territory and protect it with the use of force.
I asked you, "What do you think prevents from one country attacking another country?". You have yet to provide an answer to that question.


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## ima (Apr 19, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



Friendly relations, like, why doesn't the US invade Canada? Canada has basically no army and relies on the US for protection.

As for Israel, they were founded by force, so they need to keep that up, since Israel wasn't founded on peaceful grounds.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 19, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Most of the countries we know today were founded by force.

The USA and Canada are allied countries, there is no comparison here to Israel and Arab countries (even though Israel has peace with Egypt and Jordan they are not considered allied countries).

Friendly relations is for allied countries who have peace between them.


During the Cold War, why do you think the Soviet Union did not invade the US or vice versa?

if Israel is the only country who use force in order to keep its borders safe, how come other countries have armies at all? 

If your little theory is correct, the only country in the world with an army would be Israel,which is not the case.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 19, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> You suggest that Israel is at fault by protecting its territory with the means of force.
> 
> I told you that all countries control their territory and protect it with the use of force.
> I asked you, "What do you think prevents from one country attacking another country?". You have yet to provide an answer to that question.


You're getting a little head of yourself.   Let's back up to before the zionists declared that it was "their" territory.  If we're going to get to the root of this problem, it's starts with the migration of jews from Europe and elsewhere into this area in the hundreds of thousands. And the "force" we are talking about, is not the military force of a nation-state, it is "terrorism from jewish insurgents" into this area.  Do you not know what Irgun was and what they did?  This is not a military defending it's country, this is thugs going colonial.  And that is the genesis of all this hatred. 

But you can't see that forest through the trees, because you refuse to blame Israeli's as part of the problem.  I'm sorry, when you go into someone else's home and declare it yours,  you're the problem.


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## Lipush (Apr 19, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > You suggest that Israel is at fault by protecting its territory with the means of force.
> ...



Irgun and Hagana where defenders of the Jewish civilians against the military force of the OCCUPIED Israel by the British army. They were Guerillas, not terrorists;


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## Lipush (Apr 19, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > You suggest that Israel is at fault by protecting its territory with the means of force.
> ...



Someone ELSE'S home? how many Jewish fields, homes, properties, where burned down, destroyed and stolen by Arab clans (todays' "Palestinians") in the beginning of the 1900's?! 

Where were the "Palestinian people" because those years? 

they didn't even EXIST.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 19, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > You suggest that Israel is at fault by protecting its territory with the means of force.
> ...



Your knowledge of History is really lacking. The hatred was not started because of the "Irgun".(I am strongly opposed to what the "Irgun" did)

Jews immigrated to this land, and legally bought portion of it. The first act of violence was committed by the Arabs in the year 1920. This act of violence was the reason why the "Haganh" were created letter later on, and the "Irgun" was created even later on.



> *19201921*
> 
> Palestinian leader Haj Amin al-Husseini repeatedly fomented riots  against Jews. In the 1920 incidents, six Jews were killed and 200  wounded; in 1921, 43 Jews were killed and 147 wounded. *In response*, Jews  organized defensive forces that would later become the Haganah, the  forerunner of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).


Timeline of the Israeli



> But you can't see that forest through the trees, because you refuse to  blame Israeli's as part of the problem.  I'm sorry, when you go into  someone else's home and declare it yours,  you're the problem.


This statement has no place in reality, and shows your lack of knowledge.

I don't refuse to blame Israel as part of the problem, however what you are doing is not blaming Israel as "part of the problem" you are blaming Israel is the whole problem. And it's just a blatant lie.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 19, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > You suggest that Israel is at fault by protecting its territory with the means of force.
> ...



*And that is the genesis of all this hatred. *

Yeah, those peaceful Arabs didn't hate the Jews before this point. Right.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 19, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > You suggest that Israel is at fault by protecting its territory with the means of force.
> ...


Once upon a time there was a man named Moses and...uh,you've heard this story before? Then you don't have to be reminded. Carry on.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 19, 2012)

Israel was founded by force???  How do ya like that?  And here I actually believed Israel was founded by a legal & ethical vote by member nations of the UN at that time.  




ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 20, 2012)

here is the first DOCUMENTED MASSACRE in the Middle East.  Peaceful Palestinians indeed.

Palestine Arab Riots 1929





Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 20, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> here is the first DOCUMENTED MASSACRE in the Middle East.  Peaceful Palestinians indeed.


After several years of having their land taken from them, being dis-enfranchised politically, having no world organization willing to listen to their pleas that they have a right to self-determination too, WTF do you think is going to happen?

Much like a neutered dog, you don't get it, do you?

You have a large migration of jews into an area where 90% of the people are non-jews with a different religious ideology and own 97% of the land.  Then you inject zionists who don't give a shit about what anyone else thinks and wants to create a jewish state for political reasons and personal gain.  You don't have to be a genius to see when you live your life at someone else's expense, one day you will face the consequences of your actions. That's guaranteed!

And that's something you Israeli ass-kissers don't seem to understand.  All this crap you inflict on the Palestinian's will come back to haunt you.  Karma has a way of balancing things out.  Until then, I think you're bunch of hypocrites and cowards who are mentally incapable of dealing with reality and are completely detached from humanity at any level.  Not all of you.  There are a lot of good, decent, caring Israeli's who are truly a gift to this world, but you're not one of them.


----------



## JStone (Apr 20, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > here is the first DOCUMENTED MASSACRE in the Middle East.  Peaceful Palestinians indeed.
> ...



You know much about sucking dick. History, not so much http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


 
*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible&#39;s Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 20, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Your knowledge of History is really lacking. The hatred was not started because of the "Irgun".(I am strongly opposed to what the "Irgun" did)


I didn't say it was started by Irgun.  My point was that jewish terrorism was a factor in creating hostilities between the two groups.



Wolverine1984 said:


> Jews immigrated to this land, and legally bought portion of it. The first act of violence was committed by the Arabs in the year 1920. This act of violence was the reason why the "Haganh" were created letter later on, and the "Irgun" was created even later on.


First you say you're opposed to them, then you defend their existance.



Wolverine1984 said:


> This statement has no place in reality, and shows your lack of knowledge.


Really?  Now. who migrated where?  Which group was the one to migrate into the area and what was the group already living there?  And why would the group already living there, not object to the group moving in and taking their land.



Wolverine1984 said:


> I don't refuse to blame Israel as part of the problem, however what you are doing is not blaming Israel as "part of the problem" you are blaming Israel is the whole problem. And it's just a blatant lie.


Again, you're putting words in my mouth.  I never said they're whole problem.  And you never mention what their problems are.  We always seem to be discussing what the Pals are doing wrong, but never what the Israeli's are doing wrong.  So until we have that discussion, I'm gonna have to keep telling you things you don't want to hear.


----------



## JStone (Apr 20, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Your knowledge of History is really lacking. The hatred was not started because of the "Irgun".(I am strongly opposed to what the "Irgun" did)
> ...



Fakestinians admit they're just arabs from egypt and saudi arabia who illegally entered Israel.  They need to go the fuck back to their own shitholes they came from.

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 20, 2012)

BRAVO LOINBOY!  I totally agree that Israel is getting what israel deserves for their brutal treatment of the Palestinians with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions to keep them captives instead of finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on those Zionists in Israel.






loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > here is the first DOCUMENTED MASSACRE in the Middle East.  Peaceful Palestinians indeed.
> ...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 20, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > here is the first DOCUMENTED MASSACRE in the Middle East.  Peaceful Palestinians indeed.
> ...



*You have a large migration of jews into an area where 90% of the people are non-jews *

When were 90% non-Jews? What year?

*and own 97% of the land.*

Sorry, the Ottoman empire lost the land.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 20, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> When were 90% non-Jews? What year?


Oh, shut-up!  What kind of a dumbass question is that?  Nothing you say can change the fact that there were PEOPLE living in that area at the time the jews were migrating in.  And by current definition, that makes the zionists _*"the insurgents".*_




Toddsterpatriot said:


> *and own 97% of the land.*
> 
> Sorry, the Ottoman empire lost the land.


Not to the jews!

You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already there?  Well, you can if you're German.  Are you German?


----------



## JStone (Apr 21, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Who owned Israel 3000 years before the ottomans?

*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> BRAVO LOINBOY!  I totally agree that Israel is getting what israel deserves for their brutal treatment of the Palestinians with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions to keep them captives instead of finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on those Zionists in Israel.


Go fuck yourself, asshole!


----------



## JStone (Apr 21, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > BRAVO LOINBOY!  I totally agree that Israel is getting what israel deserves for their brutal treatment of the Palestinians with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions to keep them captives instead of finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on those Zionists in Israel.
> ...



I thought you prefer sucking dick, gay boy  http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 21, 2012)

Oh my goodness!  Now look what I have done.  loinboy has become unglued.  Calm down & look at the bright side.  There are now courses available for you in anger management. 




loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > BRAVO LOINBOY!  I totally agree that Israel is getting what israel deserves for their brutal treatment of the Palestinians with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions to keep them captives instead of finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on those Zionists in Israel.
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 21, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > BRAVO LOINBOY!  I totally agree that Israel is getting what israel deserves for their brutal treatment of the Palestinians with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions to keep them captives instead of finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on those Zionists in Israel.
> ...


Loinboy has a limited vocabulary so I'll translate:  "I hate myself to say you're right."


----------



## ima (Apr 21, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



As if loinboy is going to agree that the arabs should all be sent to other arab countries. Hoss, have you even been paying attention? Did you miss your nap?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 21, 2012)

Eh Ima, with all due respect, Hoss & the resrt of us are discussing an issue that requires some thought.  Have you tried the Dick & Jane board?  "Look Jane, see Spot run."






ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Eh Ima, with all due respect, Hoss & the resrt of us are discussing an issue that requires some thought.  Have you tried the Dick & Jane board?  "Look Jane, see Spot run."
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...



Not surprised you know what the Dick&Jane board is, I'll leave it to you. I'm sure you're the BMOC there.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 23, 2012)

So lets get back to the subject.  How can there ever be peace with an enemy who prefers death over life & educates their children to kill for martyrdom?


----------



## ima (Apr 23, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So lets get back to the subject.  How can there ever be peace with an enemy who prefers death over life & educates their children to kill for martyrdom?



You talking about the Chinese again?


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 23, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So lets get back to the subject.  How can there ever be peace with an enemy who prefers death over life & educates their children to kill for martyrdom?
> ...


You smoking roofing shingles again?


----------



## ima (Apr 23, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Really good weed.


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 23, 2012)

ima said:


> _As if loinboy is going to agree that the arabs should all be sent to other arab countries._


Of course, he should. With all that "bomb-israel" war-drumming, leaving palistanians in the danger zone is criminal intent for all the purposes and intents too.


----------



## ima (Apr 23, 2012)

don't bother doc, you're on ignore with JewStone


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 23, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > _As if loinboy is going to agree that the arabs should all be sent to other arab countries._
> ...


Doc, be advised. Ima isn't reading your posts. You're on ignore.


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 23, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


Roger that.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 23, 2012)

The poppies must be good this year, eh Ima?  Heh Heh.  




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So lets get back to the subject.  How can there ever be peace with an enemy who prefers death over life & educates their children to kill for martyrdom?
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 24, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The poppies must be good this year, eh Ima?  Heh Heh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Heroin is bad. I'll leave my share for the Israelis, I hear they're heavy consumers of the Taliban's stuff.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 24, 2012)

Seriously now, how does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?


----------



## ima (Apr 24, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Seriously now, how does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?



What are you talking about? Jim Jones? Solar Temple?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 24, 2012)

Is it Zionists who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing all their neighbors they can with them to honor God?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously now, how does ANYONE or ANY NATION even begin to negotiate peace with an enemy who praises death over life?
> ...


----------



## SAYIT (Apr 24, 2012)

Ariux said:


> American textbooks teach students to hate whites.



            
Kids say the cutest things


----------



## SAYIT (Apr 24, 2012)

I can't believe I missed this. We all have the right to form our own opinions ... not our own facts. Obviously Ariux is a poor put-upon skinhead.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ariux [3/30/2012] 
American textbooks teach students to hate whites.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 24, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Is it Zionists who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing all their neighbors they can with them to honor God?


No, they're the ones blowing up hospitals and entire villages; shooting at first responders; trying to ethnically cleanse the area of Palestinian's; committing slow genocide in the big, open air prison known as Gaza; building settlements, checkpoints and apartheid walls on land that isn't theirs; and finally, they're the ones, because of their actions in the OPT, have now caused all the victims of the Holocaust to have now died in vain.

The world was so sickened by what they saw in those death camps, that they created the UN, International Humanitarian Law (IHL) and wrote the Nuremburg Principles, in an effort to make sure something like Germany's aggression and treatment of the jews would never happen again.  But now, a half-century later, with Israel annexing land that isn't theirs, thumbing their nose at IHL for the last 45 years  and scapegoating the Palestinian's much like the way the jews were scapegoated by the nazis, it looks like history is determined to repeat itself again.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 24, 2012)

OUTSTANDING POINT.  You have a very fine brain.  Yes, these concentration camps in Gaza are the result of Israel's slow but steady genocide to starve & kill the Palestinians.

Gaza Photos. Gaza Strip Photos by Palestinian Photographers

Gaza Photos. Gaza Strip Photos by Palestinian Photographers - Similarto Gaza Photos. Gaza Strip Photos by Palestinian Photographers

 Gaza Strip photos & images photographed in unique style by Jerusalem Palestinian Photographer Steve Sabella. Gaza photos of everyday life.






loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it Zionists who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing all their neighbors they can with them to honor God?
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 24, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> OUTSTANDING POINT.  You have a very fine brain.  Yes, these concentration camps in Gaza are the result of Israel's slow but steady genocide to starve & kill the Palestinians.


Nice try.

According to Physician's for Human Rights, the reality in Gaza is not as those pics have indicated...



> _Currently *61% of the population in the Gaza Strip, or 973,600 people, suffer from a lack of food security*, defined by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) as the absence of access to sufficient, safe and nutritious food to meet their dietary needs and food preferences for an active and healthy life. Among this population, *94% of the households report a decline in the quality of food purchased over the past year, while 59% report a decline in the amount of food consumed. *Dependence on humanitarian aid from the international organizations is also constantly on the rise; Currently,* 71 percent of Gaza households rely in some capacity on international humanitarian aid*.
> 
> The report attributes high rates of food insecurity to *an increase in unemployment and poverty rates, which have gone up by more than 40% in the past three years*, as a result of the precarious situation facing Gaza's economy, which is paralyzed by Israeli controls._


40% increase in un-employment.  I guess that gives them more time to go to the beach?



> _*17 percent of the agricultural lands and 200,000 dunams of grazing land (more than 49,420 acres) were entirely destroyed in Operation Cast lead.* Since the operation the Israeli army has expanded the area forbidden to movement by Palestinians from 500 meters to 2 kilometers from the fence. The result is that* 50% of the households located in these areas have lost their source of income*. _


Yeah, things are just rosey in Gaza?


----------



## ima (Apr 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Is it Zionists who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing all their neighbors they can with them to honor God?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zionists are using the tricks that they learned in the death camps during WWII on the Pallies.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 25, 2012)

Surely you jest.  No one can be as stupid as you pretend to be.  Those photos were taken by a Palestinian who owns his own photo gallery in Gaza.




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it Zionists who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing all their neighbors they can with them to honor God?
> ...


----------



## SAYIT (Apr 25, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The poppies must be good this year, eh Ima?  Heh Heh.
> ...



The Chinese? Are you always this dim-witted or do you reserve it for this board?
According to the US National Library of Medicine there are an estimated 25,000 heroin addicts - out of a population of about 7mil - in Israel. That's about 1/3 of 1%. Also, about one fourth of the addict population immigrated to Israel from the former Soviet Union (mostly from Russia and the Ukraine) since 1989.
BTW, China is estimated to have 20 million addicts of which 14 million are heroin junkies or about 1.3% of their population.


----------



## SAYIT (Apr 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Surely you jest.  No one can be as stupid as you pretend to be.  Those photos were taken by a Palestinian who owns his own photo gallery in Gaza.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not convinced Ima is pretending.


----------



## JStone (Apr 25, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it Zionists who blow themselves up along with their own children while killing all their neighbors they can with them to honor God?
> ...



Your page says you "suck off goats"  No love for the camel?


----------



## ima (Apr 26, 2012)

SAYIT said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Surely you jest.  No one can be as stupid as you pretend to be.  Those photos were taken by a Palestinian who owns his own photo gallery in Gaza.
> ...



Concentrated camps, no food or job security, walls, guards, killing kids or putting them in jail... Maybe I was wrong about them having learned all this from the death camps because I'm sure they picked up a few things from the Warsaw ghetto.


----------



## JStone (Apr 26, 2012)

Love the animals. People, not so much 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes isn't it just awful Ima?  Wouldn't it bre wonderful if Israel learned to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do?





ima said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## JStone (Apr 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes isn't it just awful Ima?  Wouldn't it bre wonderful if Israel learned to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Wall Street Journal: "The Arab World's Dirty Secret".*


> As Israelis and Palestinians prepare to visit Washington next week to begin direct peace talks, it's worth recalling what refugees the Palestinians arein Arab countries.
> Last week, Lebanon's parliament amended a clause in a 1946 law that had been used to bar the 400,000 Palestinians living in the country from taking any but the most menial jobs. "I was born in Lebanon and I have never known Palestine," the AP quoted one 45-year-old Palestinian who works as a cab driver. "We want to live like Lebanese. We are human beings and we need civil rights."
> 
> The dirty little secret of the Arab world is that it has consistently treated Palestinians living in its midst with contempt and often violence. In 1970, Jordan expelled thousands of Palestinian militants after Yasser Arafat attempted a coup against King Hussein. In 1991, Kuwait expelled some 400,000 Palestinians working in the country as punishment for Arafat's support for Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes isn't it just awful Ima?  Wouldn't it bre wonderful if Israel learned to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just saying.

One question: if israel has already let something like 1 million arabs live in Israel without problem? So why don't they just let the rest of them in as well?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 26, 2012)

First of all why should Israel let any Arabs live in Israel when no Arab country wants Jews living in their countries?

And as to "1 million Arabs living in Israel without problems", what are you referring to?  Fact is there are now just under 6 million Palestinians living in Israel & all kinds of problems because unlike the Arab countries, Israel allows them to stay & provides for them.  You want Israel to take on even more Palestinian charity cases?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes isn't it just awful Ima?  Wouldn't it bre wonderful if Israel learned to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do?
> ...


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> First of all why should Israel let any Arabs live in Israel when no Arab country wants Jews living in their countries?


Because that's where their families lived for generations before they were driven out by zionists using jewish terrorism.



MJB12741 said:


> And as to "1 million Arabs living in Israel without problems", what are you referring to?  Fact is there are now just under 6 million Palestinians living in Israel & all kinds of problems because unlike the Arab countries, Israel allows them to stay & provides for them.  You want Israel to take on even more Palestinian charity cases?


Israel doesn't provide for them.  They treat them like second class citizens.  They bulldoze down their homes on a half-hours notice.  They shut-off their water supplies. Build Berlin Walls across their properties.  Torture their children.  Arrest their parents.  Hand out the death penalty for throwing rocks.  The reason the Palestinian's have problems, is because of the treatment they receive from the Israeli's.

The only reason they are charity cases, is because the Israeli's won't stop fucking with them.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 26, 2012)

Well hey, no one wants to free the Palestinians from Israel more than me.  Thanks for agreeing with me.  Israel needs our help to find a way to send the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.  We can call it a --- one state solution.





loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > First of all why should Israel let any Arabs live in Israel when no Arab country wants Jews living in their countries?
> ...


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## pbel (Apr 26, 2012)

JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes isn't it just awful Ima?  Wouldn't it bre wonderful if Israel learned to treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do?
> ...



If you can see the parralels between the Jews of WWll and the Palestinians then you may realize that they have nowhere to go as a people...The world's nations are ready to defacto recognize a Palestinian State to the 67 borders as Iceland has...America will force a peace via the UN.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > First of all why should Israel let any Arabs live in Israel when no Arab country wants Jews living in their countries?
> ...



Berlin Walls? The one in Berlin was built to prevent East Germans from reaching freedom.
The one in Israel was built to prevent "Palestinians" from bombing Israelis.
If the "Palestinians" want to reach freedom in another Arab country, I'm sure Israel will let them leave.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Berlin Walls? The one in Berlin was built to prevent East Germans from reaching freedom.
> The one in Israel was built to prevent "Palestinians" from bombing Israelis.
> If the "Palestinians" want to reach freedom in another Arab country, I'm sure Israel will let them leave.


Those walls are being built in an area, the Israeli's have no legal right to be in.  It would be like your neighbor building a fence on your front lawn that prevents you from getting to your driveway.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well hey, no one wants to free the Palestinians from Israel more than me.  Thanks for agreeing with me.  Israel needs our help to find a way to send the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.  We can call it a --- one state solution.


They are in their indigenous homeland, asshole! 

 It's the Israeli's who need to get the fuck out.


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## JStone (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Berlin Walls? The one in Berlin was built to prevent East Germans from reaching freedom.
> ...



You know much about oral copulation and that's all, gay boy http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, Former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank Eugene V. Rostow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> 
> The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
> Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2012)

JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Listen asshole, I gave you applicable portion of the Mandate that does not apply to the jews, yet you still play dumb.  Here it is again...



> _*The following provisions of the Mandate for Palestine are not applicable to the territory known as Trans-Jordan*, which comprises all territory lying to the east of a line drawn from ... up the centre of the Wady Araba, Dead Sea and River Jordan. ... His Majestys Government accept full responsibility as Mandatory for Trans-Jordan. _


Not applicable means just that.  The Jewish Mandate is _*"not applicable" *_east of the Jordan River and over a 100 UN resolutions bear this out.


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## Hossfly (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



WGAF? Looks like the Israelis go where they want to.When they want to.who's to stop them?. The UM?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Berlin Walls? The one in Berlin was built to prevent East Germans from reaching freedom.
> ...



"Palestine" doesn't own the land the fence is built on.
I own my front lawn.


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## JStone (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
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Gay Boy, not one UN resolution is binding.  D'oh 

Now, go back to your oral copulation which is all you know about http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> "Palestine" doesn't own the land the fence is built on.
> I own my front lawn.


This has nothing to do with the Palestinian's.  

It has to do with Israel building illegal structures on land that isn't their's.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2012)

JStone said:


> ...not one UN resolution is binding.


But the Mandate is.  And it clearly shows the area east of the Jordan River was not part of what was given to the jews.

As far as UN resolutions go, they may not be binding, but they do show where the world community stands on this issue and it's not with you.


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## JStone (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > "Palestine" doesn't own the land the fence is built on.
> ...



Gay Boy, you know about oral copulation http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html  International law, not so much 

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, Former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank Eugene V. Rostow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> 
> The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
> Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


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## Billo_Really (Apr 26, 2012)

JStone said:


> Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, Former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank Eugene V. Rostow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> > The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> ...


Repeating shit doesn't prove your argument, it proves your insanity.

Insanity is when someone keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results.

All your posts do, is prove just how stupid and juvenile you are.


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## JStone (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, Former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank Eugene V. Rostow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



Gay Boy, you're done.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 26, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > "Palestine" doesn't own the land the fence is built on.
> ...



I know it has nothing to do with the "Palestinians", they're imaginary.

The previous owners of the land were the Ottoman Empire.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 26, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Israel has been attacking imaginary people for over 60 years and has not won yet.


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## JStone (Apr 26, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...









*The Misery of Arabs/Apple R&D In Israel *  


> Apple will open a research and development center in Israel that will focus on semiconductors
> 
> The R&D center in Herzliya, Israels version of Silicon Valley, would be Apples first outside California
> 
> ...


 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA4wnqRAuhI]Apple to set up Israel development center - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH1mYikmYzo]Apple to Acquire Anobit? - YouTube[/ame]



> Apple today confirmed earlier reports it has acquired Israel-based flash memory startup Anobit....which makes flash memory technology found in the iPhone, iPad, and MacBook Air.. The deal was reported to be worth $400 million to $500 million.
> Apple confirms Anobit acquisition | Apple - CNET News


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## Lipush (Apr 26, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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Well, when you put it THAT way, that's kinda sad.

Since they believe ISRAELIS are "imaginary" as well, they have seem to attack an imaginary state from all directions for years, and still not win, either.

This is all just one big pathetic situation


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Lipush said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Why don't you post a map of Israel that does not have the 1949 armistice lines. 



> 2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949


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## JStone (Apr 27, 2012)

Quran 60:4 We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"


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## Billo_Really (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> I know it has nothing to do with the "Palestinians", they're imaginary.
> 
> The previous owners of the land were the Ottoman Empire.


You can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the arabs were the majority land owners in that area at that time.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Why don't you post a map of Israel that does not have the 1949 armistice lines.


Here is Jewish Israel.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you post a map of Israel that does not have the 1949 armistice lines.
> ...



Interesting, but it says Jewish Palestine not Jewish Israel. Those things they call international boundaries, whose borders are those?



> 1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.
> 
> The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949



Hmmm, it doesn't say Lebanon and Israel.


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## JStone (Apr 27, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you post a map of Israel that does not have the 1949 armistice lines.
> ...



Gay Boy, there is no palestine.  The correct historical name of the country is Israel.

Exodus 34:27
Then the LORD said to Moses, Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel. 

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the king of Israel! 

John 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."


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## MJB12741 (Apr 27, 2012)

For those who actually want Israel to declare borders, Israel should sastisy them by declaring their borders from Syria/Lebanon to Egypt to Jordan, thus leaving no place in Israel for any Palestinian State.





JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> For those who actually want Israel to declare borders, Israel should sastisy them by declaring their borders from Syria/Lebanon to Egypt to Jordan, thus leaving no place in Israel for any Palestinian State.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It isn't that simple. If it was, Israel would have done that years ago. The only way Israel can get any land or borders that belong to Palestine is to negotiate them with the Palestinians.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
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Pesky Arabs have been attacking Israel for a while.
Every time they use their armies, the Israelis win more land.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > I know it has nothing to do with the "Palestinians", they're imaginary.
> ...



Yup, the Ottomans owned the majority of the land.
Then they lost it.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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That is what the propaganda says. However that is not true. Israel has won nothing.

It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Ottoman land was ceded to the government of Palestine. Britain never claimed any land. Britain could not give away what was not theirs.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> > P F Tinmore said:
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It's sad that the Arabs keep losing.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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There is no government of Palestine.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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It is interesting that the Palestinians have been getting along for almost a hundred years without a government.

And besides, where does it say that a people are required to have a government?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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When did the Palestinians lose?

When did they surrender?

When did they cede land or change their borders?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> There is no government of Palestine.


Yes there is; it's called the Israeli military. You can't lose sight of the fact that this is, by legal definition, an "occupation".  And the Israeli military, is the administrator of that occupation.  Which carry's certain obligations with respect to international humanitarian law (IHL).  And according to the UN, Israel is in violation of IHL.



> _THE HUMANITARIAN IMPACT OF ISRAELI
> SETTLEMENT POLICIES
> 
> 1.* Settlements are illegal under international law as they violate Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits the transfer of the occupying powers civilian population into occupied territory.* This illegality has been confirmed by the International Court of Justice, the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention and the United Nations Security Council.
> ...


What Israel is doing to the Palestinian's is pretty fucked.  





And people who actively support Israeli tyranny over the Pals, are pretty fucked too!  They are skumbag humans that are nothing but a cancer to this planet.


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## JStone (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Arabs are dumb, ignorant, unsuccessful losers.







*The Misery of Arabs/Apple R&D In Israel *  


> Apple will open a research and development center in Israel that will focus on semiconductors
> 
> The R&D center in Herzliya, Israels version of Silicon Valley, would be Apples first outside California
> 
> ...


 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA4wnqRAuhI]Apple to set up Israel development center - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH1mYikmYzo]Apple to Acquire Anobit? - YouTube[/ame]



> Apple today confirmed earlier reports it has acquired Israel-based flash memory startup Anobit....which makes flash memory technology found in the iPhone, iPad, and MacBook Air.. The deal was reported to be worth $400 million to $500 million.
> Apple confirms Anobit acquisition | Apple - CNET News


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You're the one who brought up their imaginary government.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The Arabs lost every time they tried to fight the Israelis.
The nice thing about losing is you don't have to cede land, that decision is made by the winners.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > There is no government of Palestine.
> ...



What do you feel Israel is occupying?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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Israel is declaring victory prematurely. Shouldn't they wait until the war is over?


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## JStone (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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Israel won, loser

Bill Gates...



> Israel is by many measures the country, relative to its population, that's done the most to contribute to the technology revolution



Warren Buffett...


> If you go to the Middle East looking for oil, you don't even stop at Israel.  But, if you go looking for brains, for energy and for integrity, Israel is the only stop you make.


 
CNBC...


> When you look at the NASDAQ, companies are listed from around the world.  There's one country, though, that truly stands out and that is Israel


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHStBGk_D8Y]Israel Innovation - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Any land that Israel controls that is outside its borders is occupied.


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## JStone (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"



Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, Former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> 
> The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
> Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



What country did the "occupied" land belong to before Israel controlled it?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 27, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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Palestine belongs to the Palestinians.

WOW, what a bizarre concept.


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## JStone (Apr 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Palestine was a bogus European name for Israel.  The Romans called Jewish Israel palestine during the Roman Empire that ended 1500 years ago.

Does Italy own Israel?  

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


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## Billo_Really (Apr 28, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> What do you feel Israel is occupying?


Stop being obtuse!

If you're not aware of why they call this area, the "occupied territories", then you're not even qualified to debate this issue.  Go do your homework, when you're up to speed on the legal issues regarding this topic, then we'll continue the debate.

There is no sense in continuing this conversation, if you're gonna ask dumbass questions like that.



> _BUREAU OF PALESTINIAN RIGHTS COMMITTEE ISSUES STATEMENT TO MARK 40 YEARS OF OCCUPATION BY ISRAEL OF PALESTINIAN TERRITORY
> 
> The following statement was issued today by the Bureau of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People to mark *40 years of occupation by Israel of the Palestinian Territory*, including East Jerusalem:
> 
> *This week marks the fortieth anniversary of the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian Territory*, including East Jerusalem.  Following the end of the June 1967 hostilities, the *Security Council in resolution 242 emphasized, among other things, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war, and affirmed the need for a withdrawal of Israel from territories occupied in the conflict*, and the right of every state in the area to live in peace within secure and recognised boundaries.  That resolution and many others adopted since June 1967 have not been implemented to date.  The military occupation of the Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, unprecedented in modern history, continues to this very day._


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 28, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What do you feel Israel is occupying?
> ...



Can't answer a simple question?
Who owned the territory before Israel?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 28, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
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Bad question.

Israel does not own any territory.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 28, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
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Israel owns more than "Palestine" does.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 28, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


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> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Why don't you post a map of Israel with its real borders not those 1949 armistice lines that are *specifically not borders*?

Cue song and dance
3
2
1


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 28, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You want a map of the country where the Jews are in charge?
The country that beats every Arab army they go up against?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 28, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3rFNbSKpEE]Picard song & dance - YouTube[/ame]


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 28, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Jews make you sad.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 28, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



?????


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## MJB12741 (Apr 28, 2012)

Are you saying that all Muslim lands are "inadmissable" becuase they were acquired "through the threat or use of force"?




P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Are you saying that all Muslim lands are "inadmissable" becuase they were acquired "through the threat or use of force"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did I say that?

No I didn't say that.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 28, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying that all Muslim lands are "inadmissable" becuase they were acquired "through the threat or use of force"?
> ...


What was said: You Are an Idiot | Flash Videos


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 28, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Can't answer a simple question?


Simple questions I can answer; dumbass ones I ignore.  

Like if I asked you,_ "Is the sky blue?"  _Would you answer that?




Toddsterpatriot said:


> Who owned the territory before Israel?


It wasn't Israel.  Besides, it's irrelevant.  What is relevant is that Israel has no legal right to that land and they need to leave.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 28, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You want a map of the country where the Jews are in charge?
> The country that beats every Arab army they go up against?


You watch way too much Walker, Texas Ranger.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > You want a map of the country where the Jews are in charge?
> ...



Did I miss the episode where the Jews beat the Arabs?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Can't answer a simple question?
> ...



*It wasn't Israel.*

Who was it?

*Besides, it's irrelevant.*

Simple question, why can't you answer?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *It wasn't Israel.*
> 
> Who was it?
> 
> ...


It's not that I can't, I won't!  It has nothing to do with the current situation, which is the occupation.  Why can't you stay a little more focused on the topic, or explain where you're going with this "question" of yours?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Did I miss the episode where the Jews beat the Arabs?


Yeah, it was on about a week ago, Tuesday.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The League of Nations created the state of Palestine and defined its borders in 1922. All of the people whose* normal residence *was inside those borders at that time were then Palestinians. Ottoman lands were ceded to the Palestinians.

Britain never annexed or otherwise claimed possession of that land and it was not theirs to give away.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 29, 2012)

The root of this endless conflict is the occupation.  Unless & until Israel finds a way to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands, there will be no peace between Israel & the Palestinians.  Call it a one state solution.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The root of this endless conflict is the occupation.  Unless & until Israel finds a way to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands, there will be no peace between Israel & the Palestinians.  Call it a one state solution.



Of course the Palestinians have wanted to back to their homeland for over 60 years but Israel will not allow it.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes, that is exactly my bitch with Israel.  They keep the Palestinians captive in a foreign land with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions instead of finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The root of this endless conflict is the occupation.  Unless & until Israel finds a way to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands, there will be no peace between Israel & the Palestinians.  Call it a one state solution.
> ...


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *It wasn't Israel.*
> ...



*It's not that I can't, I won't!*

I noticed. What are you afraid of?

*It has nothing to do with the current situation, which is the occupation. *

You can only occupy land that used to belong to somebody else. 
So who was the somebody else?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



*Ottoman lands were ceded to the Palestinians.*

No they weren't. No such people.
Do you want to claim the lands were ceded to the Arabs in the area?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You can only occupy land that used to belong to somebody else.
> So who was the somebody else?


You've got to be pretty retarded to think you can "re-define" something that's been going on for the last 45 years.



> _Military occupation is effective* provisional control of a certain power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity*, without the volition of the actual sovereign.[2][3][4] The intrinsically temporary nature of occupation, when no claim for permanent sovereignty is made by the occupying entity, distinguishes occupation from both colonialism or annexation_


I didn't see any_ "...belong to somebody else..."_ crap in there.

Maybe you should check your ego at the door?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
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The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The government of Palestine is now the government of Israel.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > You can only occupy land that used to belong to somebody else.
> ...



Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.

Who controlled it before?

Sorry if my questions make you feel retarded.


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## ima (Apr 29, 2012)

Todd, one question, are you a patriot of israel or the US?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



I am not the one retarded.



> Military occupation is effective provisional* control* of a certain power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity...



You need to keep up.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

ima said:


> Todd, one question, are you a patriot of israel or the US?



I'm an American citizen.
I support Israel because they are a democracy surrounded by Arab dictatorships.
Why do you hate Israel?
Jewish guy banging your ex?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



My response was to loinboy.
Sorry your IQ is so low.

*territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity*

The territory was under what formal sovereignty before?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The definition did not give that as a requirement.

You need to keep up.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



So your answer is it was under no one's sovereignty?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Define sovereignty.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Loinboy's claim, ask him.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



 	There exists perhaps no conception the meaning of which is more controversial than that of sovereignty. It is an indisputable fact that this conception, from the moment when it was introduced into political science until the present day, has never had a meaning which was universally agreed upon. 	

 Lassa Oppenheim, an authority on international law

Sovereignty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Thanks for proving loinboy was wrong.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 29, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The government of Israel was created by foreigners against the wishes of the vast majority of Palestinians who were not given the right to vote for their government. They have stayed in power ever since by military force.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Palestinians? Do you mean the Arabs that moved into the area?


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## Hossfly (Apr 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


I wonder if Tinny can tell us if the Arabs in the area were given the right to vote to have 78% of the mandate given to the Hashemites who come from Saudi Arabia.


JT2


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## MJB12741 (Apr 30, 2012)

Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  So who is stealing who's land?




P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


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## ima (Apr 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  So who is stealing who's land?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think the UN should kick all the arabs and Jews out of Palestine and start a new peaceful, vegetarian state where all weapons are outlawed. Who's with me?


----------



## JStone (Apr 30, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  So who is stealing who's land?
> ...



IMA DUNCE








Israel, not palestine, IMA DUNCE.  palestine was a fake Roman name for Israel.

Does Italy own Israel, IMA DUNCE? 

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 30, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.
> 
> Who controlled it before?
> 
> Sorry if my questions make you feel retarded.


Your comprehension needs to pick up a bit.  I didn't say your "questions make me feel retarded", I said, "YOU got to be pretty retarded to think YOU can re-define..." the occupied territories.  Now, stop playing fucking word games and trying to spin this off into something that is completely irrelevant.

Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war.  And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  So who is stealing who's land?


According to the Mandate, they were both given land.  

The jews got theirs, so let the arabs have theirs.

Why do people have such a hard time being fair to both sides?


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## JStone (Apr 30, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  So who is stealing who's land?
> ...



Gay Boy, You know much about oral copulation but nothing else   http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible&#39;s Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 30, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Israel has controlled the land for the last 45 years.
> ...



I'm sorry if my questions make you appear even more retarded.

*Much of the OPT was land siezed by Israel during the '67 war. *

Seized? Seized from whom?

*And it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war.*

Excellent! When does Germany get back the land they lost in WWI and WWII?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah right.  Like outlawing booze.




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Let us figure out this land issue out rationally & without any personal or internet bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  So who is stealing who's land?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 30, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...





> Seized? Seized from whom?



Excellent question.

Jordan did not own the West Bank. It was occupied *Palestinian* land. Egypt did not own the Gaza Strip. It was occupied* Palestinian* land. Israel claims that it won Palestinian land from Jordan and Egypt.

That is an interesting legal concept.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 30, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Who did Jordan and Egypt seize it from?

You never answered by question about Germany.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 30, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



They did not seize them from anybody. Egypt and Jordan were not at war with Palestine. The 1949 armistice agreements simply divided Palestine into three areas of occupation claiming that the Palestinian question would be addressed at a later date.

Well it is over sixty years later and still everyone is avoiding the Palestinian question.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Apr 30, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



*They did not seize them from anybody.*

Exactly! Neither did Israel. Glad you realized your mistake.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 30, 2012)

Seriously, why do you think Jordan was so happy to refuse Israel's offer to give back the entire West Bank for nothing in return after the 67 war?  If & when you know the answer you will then know WHY "the Palestinian question'' was never addressed by Jordan.




P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Seriously, why do you think Jordan was so happy to refuse Israel's offer to give back the entire West Bank for nothing in return after the 67 war?  If & when you know the answer you will then know WHY "the Palestinian question'' was never addressed by Jordan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jordan was always part of the Palestine problem. It was offered the West Bank and millions in cash to not attack Israel in the 1948 war. It did not. It screwed the Palestinians pursuing its own interests. Now its only contribution to peace is echoing the same hollow crap that comes out of the worthless "quartet."


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You're being silly.


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## ima (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> You never answered by question about Germany.



Germany should have had to give up a piece of land to form Israel. The Jews were a European problem, not a Middle Eastern one.


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

ima said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > You never answered by question about Germany.
> ...



And besides, if there is a question about Germany it should be in the Europe board. It is just deflection to mention it here. 

Of course saying that Israel should be in Germany not in Palestine makes more sense than what is usually expressed on this board.


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## MJB12741 (May 1, 2012)

Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.  They refused Israel's offer to return the West Bank back to them so they could sacrifice this piece of land to dump their Palestinians on Israel to deal with.  Then in July of 1970 king Hussein gives his remaining Palestinians Black September to establish a lasting peace from them.  Then in June, 1993 king Abdullah marries the most gorgeous Palestinian woman & refuses to grant any right of return to all the rest of them.  And now Jordan has open borders with Israel so Israeli's & tourists to Israel can visit & spend their money in Jordan to bolster Jordan's economy.  No doubt about it, Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously, why do you think Jordan was so happy to refuse Israel's offer to give back the entire West Bank for nothing in return after the 67 war?  If & when you know the answer you will then know WHY "the Palestinian question'' was never addressed by Jordan.
> ...


----------



## ima (May 1, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.  They refused Israel's offer to return the West Bank back to them so they could sacrifice this piece of land to dump their Palestinians on Israel to deal with.  Then in July of 1970 king Hussein gives his remaining Palestinians Black September to establish a lasting peace from them.  Then in June, 1993 king Abdullah marries the most gorgeous Palestinian woman & refuses to grant any right of return to all the rest of them.  And now Jordan has open borders with Israel so Israeli's & tourists to Israel can visit & spend their money in Jordan to bolster Jordan's economy.  No doubt about it, Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jordan is the Uncle Tom of the muslim world.


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## JStone (May 1, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.  They refused Israel's offer to return the West Bank back to them so they could sacrifice this piece of land to dump their Palestinians on Israel to deal with.  Then in July of 1970 king Hussein gives his remaining Palestinians Black September to establish a lasting peace from them.  Then in June, 1993 king Abdullah marries the most gorgeous Palestinian woman & refuses to grant any right of return to all the rest of them.  And now Jordan has open borders with Israel so Israeli's & tourists to Israel can visit & spend their money in Jordan to bolster Jordan's economy.  No doubt about it, Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.
> ...



IMA DUNCE


----------



## MJB12741 (May 1, 2012)

What is it about a lasting peace in the Middle East that so bothers you?  Tell us Ima, it not true that Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from Palestinians?  And have you EVER heard of a single Palestinian complaint about Jordan's Black September?  When will those Zionists in Israel ever learn?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.  They refused Israel's offer to return the West Bank back to them so they could sacrifice this piece of land to dump their Palestinians on Israel to deal with.  Then in July of 1970 king Hussein gives his remaining Palestinians Black September to establish a lasting peace from them.  Then in June, 1993 king Abdullah marries the most gorgeous Palestinian woman & refuses to grant any right of return to all the rest of them.  And now Jordan has open borders with Israel so Israeli's & tourists to Israel can visit & spend their money in Jordan to bolster Jordan's economy.  No doubt about it, Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.
> ...


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## Billo_Really (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Palestinians? Do you mean the Arabs that moved into the area?


No, the arabs who were already there.


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## Billo_Really (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Thanks for proving loinboy was wrong.


That doesn't prove anything.


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## Billo_Really (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Excellent question.
> 
> Jordan did not own the West Bank. It was occupied *Palestinian* land. Egypt did not own the Gaza Strip. It was occupied* Palestinian* land. Israel claims that it won Palestinian land from Jordan and Egypt.
> 
> That is an interesting legal concept.


That's about as good as it can get, a "concept", because the legal reality is that of an "occupation".  And all occupations are temporary.  It is illegal to change the demographics of an area under occupation.


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Yeah, agreeing with you would normally be silly.
But for once, you were right.


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

ima said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > You never answered by question about Germany.
> ...



You never answered by question about Germany.


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



* It is just deflection to mention it here. *

Especially because it proves the claim " it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war" was wrong.


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians? Do you mean the Arabs that moved into the area?
> ...



When?


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## Billo_Really (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


WTF do you mean, "when"?  They've been there as long as the jews have been there.  There have been people living there for generations.

What is with these stupid questions?


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Did Germany surrender and were there peace treaties?


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



What parts of Germany were lost in the war?


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## JStone (May 1, 2012)

loinboy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent question.
> ...



You know about oral copulation but nothing else  http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

Jews established Israel 3000 years ago verified by the archaeological record, and Jews existed in Israel 2000 years before any Arab civilization in Israel.  Arabs are occupying Israel.

*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Why would any of that matter if  "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The parts they held in 1913 that they no longer held in 1946.


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## JStone (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



You're debating international law with the complete dolt and mental patient Tinhead.

Israel seized land in a defensive war, as opposed to an offensive war, which was not prohibited by law.  The loss of territory is a deterrent to initiating war.

In fact, the Arabs pressed the UN to issue a resolution condemning Israel as the aggressor in the war and the UN declined to do so as the consensus was that Israel acted defensively.


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Well then, that explains everything.


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You'd have to read a map.
I'm not hopeful you'll be able to manage.


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Sure I can read a map. Do you have a 1948 map of Israel?


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Do you need that to see that Germany lost land seized in a war?


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## P F Tinmore (May 1, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



No but since this is the Israel and Palestine board I think it would be more on topic.


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## JStone (May 1, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



There is no palestine.  The Romans invented palestine to call Israel during the Roman Empire that ended 1500 years ago.

Does Italy own Israel? 

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]

Augustine and the Jews: A Christian Defense of Jews and Judaism - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books


PBS...
In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.

It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.

But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


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## ima (May 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> What is it about a lasting peace in the Middle East that so bothers you?  Tell us Ima, it not true that Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from Palestinians?  And have you EVER heard of a single Palestinian complaint about Jordan's Black September?  When will those Zionists in Israel ever learn?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I sais "Jordan is the Uncle Tom of the muslim world." Where did I mention "lasting peace"?  You're tiptoeing close to JewStone territory, be careful.


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What is it about a lasting peace in the Middle East that so bothers you?  Tell us Ima, it not true that Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from Palestinians?  And have you EVER heard of a single Palestinian complaint about Jordan's Black September?  When will those Zionists in Israel ever learn?
> ...



Tinhead Jr. has zero rep points 

IMA Dunce And Tinhead: Dumb and Dumber


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## MJB12741 (May 2, 2012)

So then, do you deny that Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from Palestinians?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What is it about a lasting peace in the Middle East that so bothers you?  Tell us Ima, it not true that Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from Palestinians?  And have you EVER heard of a single Palestinian complaint about Jordan's Black September?  When will those Zionists in Israel ever learn?
> ...


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## ima (May 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So then, do you deny that Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from Palestinians?
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...



Pallies never said that Jordan ripped them off.


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## MJB12741 (May 2, 2012)

BINGO!  Finally Ima gets it.  Exactly my point.  Never has there been a single known Palestinian complaint about Jordan's Black September.  When will Israel ever learn from king Hussein how to deal with Palestinians to achieve a lasting peace?





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So then, do you deny that Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from Palestinians?
> ...


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## ima (May 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> BINGO!  Finally Ima gets it.  Exactly my point.  Never has there been a single known Palestinian complaint about Jordan's Black September.  When will Israel ever learn from king Hussein how to deal with Palestinians to achieve a lasting peace?
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...


So how many should the Israelis kill?


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

Quran 9:111: Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed.  Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The topic was land seized in war.


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## MJB12741 (May 2, 2012)

If I were prime minister of Israel, here is what I would do.  First I would invite all leaders of Hamas to peace negotiations.  I would then welcome them, thank them for attending & lavish them with fine housing, food & beverages during this historic event.  After all, they are the duly elected government of the Palestinian people themselves.  How can any peace negotiations even begin by just ignoring them as a terrorist organization?

Then before any negotiations take place I would just say that I would just like to make an annoncement --- From now on, each time you kill an Israeli, Israel will retaliate by killing 10,000 Palestinians.  And then open up the peace talks.

So you see Ima, how many Palestinians Israel would have to kill for peace, is up to Hamas.  Seriously, what could be more fair & ethical than that?








ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > BINGO!  Finally Ima gets it.  Exactly my point.  Never has there been a single known Palestinian complaint about Jordan's Black September.  When will Israel ever learn from king Hussein how to deal with Palestinians to achieve a lasting peace?
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If I were prime minister of Israel, here is what I would do.  First I would invite all leaders of Hamas to peace negotiations.  I would then welcome them, thank them for attending & lavish them with fine housing, food & beverages during this historic event.  After all, they are the duly elected government of the Palestinian people themselves.  How can any peace negotiations even begin by just ignoring them as a terrorist organization?
> 
> Then before any negotiations take place I would just say that I would just like to make an annoncement --- From now on, each time you kill an Israeli, Israel will retaliate by killing 10,000 Palestinians.  And then open up the peace talks.
> 
> ...





> Israel will retaliate by killing 10,000 Palestinians.



Of course that would be illegal. Israel paid heavily for killing "only" a thousand civilians in cast lead. Every time Israel does something stupid it loses legitimacy on the world stage.


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If I were prime minister of Israel, here is what I would do.  First I would invite all leaders of Hamas to peace negotiations.  I would then welcome them, thank them for attending & lavish them with fine housing, food & beverages during this historic event.  After all, they are the duly elected government of the Palestinian people themselves.  How can any peace negotiations even begin by just ignoring them as a terrorist organization?
> ...



"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"



*Wall Street Journal: Where Tech Keeps Booming, In Israel, a Clustering of Talent, Research Universities and Venture Capital... 

"Google, Cisco, Microsoft, Intel, eBay . . . ," says one of eBay's executives. "The best-kept secret is that we all live and die by the work of our Israeli teams."* 


> There are more new innovative ideas coming out of Israel than there are out in Silicon Valley right now. And it doesn't slow during economic downturns." The authors of "Start-Up Nation," Dan Senor and Saul Singer, are quoting an executive at British Telecom, but they could just as easily be quoting an executive at Intel, which last year opened a $3.5 billion factory in Kiryat Gat, an hour south of Tel Aviv, to make sophisticated 45-nanometer chips; or Warren Buffett, who in 2006 paid $4 billion for four-fifths of an Israeli firm that makes high-tech cutting tools for cars and planes; or John Chambers, Cisco's chief executive, who has bought nine Israeli start-ups; or Steve Ballmer, who calls Microsoft "as much an Israeli company as an American company" because of the importance of its Israeli technologists. "Google, Cisco, Microsoft, Intel, eBay . . . ," says one of eBay's executives. "The best-kept secret is that we all live and die by the work of our Israeli teams."
> 
> Israel is the world's techno-nation. Civilian research-and-development expenditures run 4.5% of the gross domestic producthalf-again the level of the U.S., Germany or South Koreaand venture-capital investment per capita is 2½ times that of the U.S. and six times that of the United Kingdom. Even in absolute terms, Israel has only the U.S.with more than 40 times the populationas a challenger.
> 
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfnC0vDx048]Innovation at Google&#39;s R&D Center in Israel - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (May 2, 2012)

"Illegal"???  Seems to me my approach is most moral & humane.  Let Hamas determine how many Palestinians Israel would have to kill if any.

So Tinmore, tell us what you would do for peace from Palestinians if you were Israeli prime minister?  Would you give them everything they demand so they can kill even more Israeli's & continue their vow to annihilate Israel off the face of the earth?  Come on Tinmore, you can do it.




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If I were prime minister of Israel, here is what I would do.  First I would invite all leaders of Hamas to peace negotiations.  I would then welcome them, thank them for attending & lavish them with fine housing, food & beverages during this historic event.  After all, they are the duly elected government of the Palestinian people themselves.  How can any peace negotiations even begin by just ignoring them as a terrorist organization?
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> "Illegal"???  Seems to me my approach is most moral & humane.  Let Hamas determine how many Palestinians Israel would have to kill if any.
> 
> So Tinmore, tell us what you would do for peace from Palestinians if you were Israeli prime minister?  Would you give them everything they demand so they can kill even more Israeli's & continue their vow to annihilate Israel off the face of the earth?  Come on Tinmore, you can do it.
> 
> ...



Israel needs to end its occupation of Palestine.


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > "Illegal"???  Seems to me my approach is most moral & humane.  Let Hamas determine how many Palestinians Israel would have to kill if any.
> ...



The Romans invented the word palestine to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

Maybe, open a book and you'll get your first rep point.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University 


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
PBS...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (May 2, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Indeed.


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

Torah: Love thy neighbor as thyself

Quran: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



So when does Germany get back the land seized in war?


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## P F Tinmore (May 2, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



So when did Israel get any land?


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



So when does Germany get back the land seized in war?


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



3000 years ago.  No rep points for you


*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> 
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.


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## Billo_Really (May 2, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Why would any of that matter if  "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?


International law did not exist until AFTER WWII.


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Why would any of that matter if  "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?
> ...



You know about oral copulation.  Law, not so much.  http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html

The Hague Conventions date back to the late 19th century.

Now, you know


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## Billo_Really (May 2, 2012)

JStone said:


> You're debating international law with the complete dolt and mental patient Tinhead.
> 
> Israel seized land in a defensive war, as opposed to an offensive war, which was not prohibited by law.  The loss of territory is a deterrent to initiating war.
> 
> In fact, the Arabs pressed the UN to issue a resolution condemning Israel as the aggressor in the war and the UN declined to do so as the consensus was that Israel acted defensively.


You're completely full of shit!

UN Resolution 242 tells the Israeli's to get the fuck out of the OPT!



> _The preamble refers to the* "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war* and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security."
> 
> Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
> (i)*Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict*​_(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."​ [/I]


Can you read, dolt-boy?

_* "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war"*

*"Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict"* _

What part don't you understand, you fucking idiot?


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## Billo_Really (May 2, 2012)

JStone said:


> The Hague Conventions date back to the late 19th century.
> 
> Now, you know


The Hague Convention didn't deal with the topic of "aggression".


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > You're debating international law with the complete dolt and mental patient Tinhead.
> ...



No rule in international law forces Israel to forfeit one centimeter of land.  Israel seized land in a defensive war, not offensive war, that was not prohibited.  

Furthermore, Israel seized land that was a residual territory under the British Mandate establishing the state of Israel  

Now, go back to oral copulation http://www.usmessageboard.com/5143970-post567.html


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## Toddsterpatriot (May 2, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Why would any of that matter if  "it is against international law to hold onto land siezed in a war"?
> ...



Really? None of it?


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Well, there are the 1899 Hague Conventions.  That was before WW II, I believe.


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > The Hague Conventions date back to the late 19th century.
> ...



Read, learn...

Legal Scholar, International Law Authority Stephen Schwebel, Former President, International Court of Justice


> As a general principle of international law, as that law has been reformed since the League, particularly by the Charter, it is both vital and correct to say that there shall be no weight to conquest, that the acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible.  But that principle must be read in particular cases together with other general principles, among them the still more general principle of which it is an application, namely, that no legal right shall spring from a wrong, and the Charter principle that the Members of the United Nations shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State. So read, the distinctions between aggressive conquest and defensive conquest, between the taking of territory legally held and the taking of territory illegally held, become no less vital and correct than the central principle itself.
> 
> Those distinctions may be summarized as follows: (a) a State acting in lawful exercise of its right of self-defense may seize and occupy foreign territory as long as such seizure and occupation are necessary to its self *defense; (b) as a condition of its withdrawal from such territory, that State may require the institution of security measures reasonably designed to ensure that that territory shall not again be used to mount a threat or use of force against it of such a nature as to justify exercise of self-defense; (c) where the prior holder of territory had seized that territory unlawfully, the State which subsequently takes that territory in the lawful exercise of self-defense has, against that prior holder, better title.
> 
> ...



Now, run along


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## MJB12741 (May 2, 2012)

Excellent Tinmore.  Now then, will you be so kind as to educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that you claim Israel is occupying?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > "Illegal"???  Seems to me my approach is most moral & humane.  Let Hamas determine how many Palestinians Israel would have to kill if any.
> ...


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## JStone (May 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Excellent Tinmore.  Now then, will you be so kind as to educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that you claim Israel is occupying?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Palestine was invented by Roman pagans to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

There is no Palestine.  The correct historical name of the land is Israel since 3000 years ago.

Old Testament


> Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, &#8220;Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.


&#8221; 
New Testament


> John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, &#8220;Hosanna! &#8220;Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! &#8220;Blessed is the king of Israel!&#8221;


Quran


> Quran 10:93 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 2, 2012)

Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.





JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent Tinmore.  Now then, will you be so kind as to educate me as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that you claim Israel is occupying?
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Solomon's Temple built ca 960 BCE.  al aqsa mosque built ca. 715 CE, about 1700 years later.

The Quran acknowledges Solomon's Temple was built first, in its own weird way.



> 38:30 To David We gave Solomon (for a son),- How excellent in Our service! Ever did he turn (to Us)!
> 
> 38:34 And We did try Solomon: We placed on his throne a body (without life); but he did turn (to Us in true devotion):
> 
> ...


----------



## ima (May 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.



What happened 3000 years ago is irrelevant, because why not go further back and say 12,000 years ago, there were no jews, so therefore, no claim to anything. See how your bogus arguments can bite you in your ball?


----------



## JStone (May 3, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.
> ...



IMA DUNCE






*Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History
*

Jerusalem became the capital of the first Jewish kingdom in 1004 BC, over 3000 years ago.  With the brief exception of the Crusader period, no other non-Jewish ruling power of Jerusalem made the city a capital but it was consistently a capital for the Jews.  Driven into partial exile by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC, the Jews returned fifty years later and rebuilt Jerusalem as their capital.  It was their capital, too, under the Maccabees.  The unity of the city achieved in 1967, then, was more than a quirk of military geography.  It was the fulfillment of unbroken historical longings.

In 1210, following the defeat of the Crusaders, groups of Jews began to return Jerusalem.  Henceforth, without interruption, and in every decade, individual Jews and groups of Jews reached the city from the Maghreb [north Africa] and elsewhere forming an ever-growing community.  Driven out by the Tartar invasion of 1244, they had returned by 1250.  Three times a day the Jews repeated in their prayers, "And to Jerusalem Thy city mayest thou return to mercy, and dwell in its midst as Thou hast spoken, and rebuild it soon in our days for evermore

Areas from which some 300 Rabbis travelled to Jerusalem, Acre and Ramla in 1210 AD, to strengthen the Jewish communities weakened by the Crusader massacres and expulsions.  Jews are known to have traveled from throughout the region to Jerusalem [after 1267], settling permanently and forming by 1841 the largest single community in Jerusalem.    

1000 AD: Jews take part in the defence of Haifa against the Crusades

1099:AD: Jews take part in the defence of Jerusalem against the Crusaders 

1211: Several Rabbis from France and England settle in Jerusalem 

1267: Maimonides arrives in Jerusalem and establishes a synagogue .  During the next 500 years, Jerusalem is reinstated as a centre of Jewish learning.

In 1500, there were an estimated 10,000 Jews living in the Safed region

1563: Establishment of a Hebrew printing press in Jerusalem, the first printing press on the Asian Continent

By 1880 the Jews formed the majority of the population Jerusalem      

During the 17th and 18th centuries, many Jerusalem Jews, scholars and rabbis, travelled from Jerusalem to teach in Jewish communities elsewhere, and also to seek alms and charity for the poorer members of their own community.  there was also a regular movement of families, in both directions, between Jerusalem and several towns of the eastern Mediterranean region

Jewish villages in Israel 1855--1914...

Deganya
Jerusalem
Safed
Tiberias
Kinneret
Merhavya
Zikhron Yacov
Ekron
Mikveh Israel
Rishon le-Zion
Ben Shemen
Rehovot
Hulda
Kastinia
Artuf
Hebron
Ruhama
Beer-Toviya
Hartuv
Gedera
Kfar Uriya
Motza
Nes Ziona
Beer Yaakov
Nahalat Yehuda
Mahane Yehuda
Ein Ganim
Petah Tikvah
Kfar Sava
Kfar Mahal
Hadera
Gan Shmuel
Nahliel
Karkur
Givat Ada
Bat Shelomo
Tantura
Shefeiya
Yavneel
Beit Gan
Kfar Tova
Poriya
Sejera
Menahemya
Beitanya
Mizpa
Kfar Hittim
Bnei Yehuda
Mishmar Hayarden
Ayelet Hashashar
Ein Zeitim
Metulla
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24]Amazon.com: Martin Gilbert&#39;sThe Routledge Atlas of Jewish History (Routledge Historical Atlases) [Hardcover](2010): M., (Author) Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (May 3, 2012)

HUH???  All of today's history would not be what it is without the history of the past.  Think man, think for a change.  And then tell me when Israel began stealing "Palestinian land."






ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> HUH???  All of today's history would not be what it is without the history of the past.  Think man, think for a change.  And then tell me when Israel began stealing "Palestinian land."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are no palestinians and no palestinian land.  They admit to just being arabs from egypt and saudi arabia who invaded Israel.

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.



The temple and the mosque will continue to be a sticking point but the rest is pretty cut and dried.

After the fall of the Ottoman Empire its lands were divided into separate states Palestine being one of them. When the League of Nations defined Palestine's borders in 1922, all of the people whose normal residence was inside those borders officially became Palestinians.

The Ottoman Empire lost ownership of the land and it was ceded to the Palestinians either individually owned or collectively owned as communal land.


----------



## JStone (May 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.
> ...







Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, Former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> 
> The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
> Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


----------



## bobgnote (May 3, 2012)

By 126 A.D. and Hadrian's decree, neo-zionist Jews wanted back into Syria-Palestina, as Hadrian called it.  

Around 1149 A.D., a group of Jews in the Crusader-administered Holy Land migrated to Abbyssinia, the actual land of Jewish orignin.  See also, Aramaic, the language spoken by many Christians in the Middle East and the language of Jesus, since the Aramids from Abbyssinia conquered Judea, before the Romans did.

Their descendants were a tribe, called the Lemba, in Ethiopia.  They tried to emigrate to Israel, but the racist, apartheid Israelis held them up, until DNA proved they had more Cohen DNA than do 95% of modern Israelis, so the High Court said let them in, 2000.

Get a clue!!  Zionism has been killing, since the Habirus stoned Moses, for throwing down the tablets.  The covenant was broken rocks, Indy-fans.  The Habirus then returned to their bloody purge of the area around the Sea of Galillee, where the ex-Egyptian Habirus slew all residents of Ai, Jericho, Haxor, and about 50 other places, as a prelude to modern bulldozer, nuke, and Uzi crusading.

They kicked out Palestinians and Christians, native to Palestine, for modern Israel.

By the time of the Industrial Revolution, Christians wanted another Crusade.  By the time of George Washington's death, 1799, Christians were conspiring against our separation and standing army clauses, and against USCA 4, security.  They added conspiracy against USCA 5/14, due process, as they went along.  Americans wanted back into the Holy Land, as of the Tripolitan War, see Stephen Decatur.

By 1882, the Brits had a zionist conspiracy, the year between the Boer Wars, to launch zionist settlers, to Palestine.  In the name of future apartheid, the Brits incited the Mahdi Army rebellion, in Egypt, 1886.  There has been trouble including mass murder, in Europe, ever since.

The US discriminated against Jewish people, in various ways, keeping Aaron Burr out of the Veep's office, preventing WWII refugees from emigrating to the US, but after WWII, the US started supporting the apartheid, fascist state of Israel, simultaneous to the NSA doing a lot of domestic ripoff surveillance and the CIA starting a lot of wars, see Korea, Iran-Iraq.  

The CIA overflew China in 1948, from Tibet and Taiwan, inciting China to take Tibet, 1949.  The CIA supported the Shah with MI6 in 1953 and Saddam in 1958, where Saddam was a Sunni, helping rule then ruling a Shiite majority.  The US supports a Sunni King of Bahrain, ruling another Shiite majority.  The Russians support Shiite Assad, ruling a Sunni majority.  The big powers are all stinking zombies, you know.

As for Israel, there was going to be war, when the zionist-affected Crusade got going.  But under Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat, the Oslo Accords were signed.  This was blown off by the Israelis, when Rabin was assassinated.  The Israelis cited suicide bombers, but really what happened was more bulldozing and settling.

Lousy Israel is just doing what the Old Testament describes, KILLING PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR LAND.  So what about the Torah?  

Israel will likely be the source, of any WWIII.  So keep your fissionable materials locked up, tight.  Problem is, all those Christians are so STUPID, they kept evolution out of US schools, until 1958, when the Russians launched Sputnik.  Oops, we better get some science or hire some more Mexicans to teach us how to pick lettuce.  How about we hire Carlos Mencia to sing DDD, in church?

Christians and Jews aren't as restrained as the late Meyer Lansky.  They are right in Jimmy Carter's face, for decrying zionazism.  AIPAC owns the separation clause, so they have our government breaking this, all day and night, for years.  Expect WWIII, someday, so no wonder the DOD wants to invade Iran.  It is part of the plan!

We have about 31 Mark 1 or whatever reactors are like the Fukushima Daiichi, which blew, and they have their spent waste, lying around in pools, which somebody can hit.  Get that the heck over to Yucca Mtn., for a 10,000 year cool-down, eh?   And quit talking like your chromosomes are broke, ALREADY.  Petroleum breaks these, too.


----------



## SAYIT (May 3, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> By 126 A.D. and Hadrian's decree, neo-zionist Jews wanted back into Syria-Palestina, as Hadrian called it.
> 
> Around 1149 A.D., a group of Jews in the Crusader-administered Holy Land migrated to Abbyssinia, the actual land of Jewish orignin.  See also, Aramaic, the language spoken by many Christians in the Middle East and the language of Jesus, since the Aramids from Abbyssinia conquered Judea, before the Romans did.
> 
> ...




Woo ... I could use a taste of whatever it is you've been smokin'.


----------



## JStone (May 3, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> By 126 A.D. and Hadrian's decree, neo-zionist Jews wanted back into Syria-Palestina, as Hadrian called it.



You fucked up right at the outset.  The rest of your post is more unintelligible gibberish.

Hadrian did not call Judea/Israel "palaestina" until 135 CE, not 126 CE, following the Bar Kokhba Revolt of 132 CE-135 CE.  Jerusalem was renamed Aelia Capitolina, after Hadrian, whose Roman name was Publius Aelius Hadrianus.  

While Jews were expelled from Jerusalem, they remained elsewhere in Judea/Israel.  The Yeshiva Jewish Academy was established in Yabneh, Israel under Vespasian.  Jesus Christ, a Jew, lived in Galilee, Israel. 

It was Antoninus Pius who permitted Jewish reentry into Jerusalem and Caracalla granted Roman citizenship to Jews. 

Now, you know


----------



## MJB12741 (May 4, 2012)

Them poppies must be good this year.  Read this folks.





bobgnote said:


> By 126 A.D. and Hadrian's decree, neo-zionist Jews wanted back into Syria-Palestina, as Hadrian called it.
> 
> Around 1149 A.D., a group of Jews in the Crusader-administered Holy Land migrated to Abbyssinia, the actual land of Jewish orignin.  See also, Aramaic, the language spoken by many Christians in the Middle East and the language of Jesus, since the Aramids from Abbyssinia conquered Judea, before the Romans did.
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 4, 2012)

I am still waiting for someone to enlighten me as to when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that they claim Israel is now stealing?


----------



## ima (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I am still waiting for someone to enlighten me as to when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that they claim Israel is now stealing?



I am still waiting for you to ask a relevant question.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

Hey look.  Just because you don't seem to believe Israel is stealing  "Palestinian land" doesn't mean that is true.  Soon someone will educate us as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing.  Just you wait & see.  




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I am still waiting for someone to enlighten me as to when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian land" that they claim Israel is now stealing?
> ...


----------



## ima (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hey look.  Just because you don't seem to believe Israel is stealing  "Palestinian land" doesn't mean that is true.  Soon someone will educate us as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing.  Just you wait & see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Arabs' homes and land were taken and they got booted out, "Palestinian" is just a generic term for these arabs, for lack of a better name.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

Gosh I wonder why those Arabs who's land & properties Israel stole from them don't just post the deeds to their land & properties all over the internet?






ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey look.  Just because you don't seem to believe Israel is stealing  "Palestinian land" doesn't mean that is true.  Soon someone will educate us as to when Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is now stealing.  Just you wait & see.
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

Gosh, is it actually possible the land never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place?  That they are just a bunch of squatters on Israel's ancient land for generations now?





MJB12741 said:


> Gosh I wonder why those Arabs who's land & properties Israel stole from them don't just post the deeds to their land & properties all over the internet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Gosh, is it actually possible the land never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place?  That they are just a bunch of squatters on Israel's ancient land for generations now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought Israel, which the Jews established 3000 years ago, was a Hebrew word.  When did Israel become a "palestinian" word and in what year did they establish Israel before the Jews in 1000 BCE?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

Well, I learned on this board that "Israel is stealing "Palestinian land."  I am adamantly against land thieves & have asked to learn when did Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is stealing so I can condemn Israel.  Yet there has been no answer.  Why is that?





JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, is it actually possible the land never belonged to the Palestinians in the first place?  That they are just a bunch of squatters on Israel's ancient land for generations now?
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well, I learned on this board that "Israel is stealing "Palestinian land."  I am adamantly against land thieves & have asked to learn when did Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is stealing so I can condemn Israel.  Yet there has been no answer.  Why is that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The palestinians have been around since at least the dinosaurs, but, they just never got around to naming their country...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsJjm5K07V0]Who are the Palestinians? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (May 14, 2012)

Well, it is true that the first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  In fact, there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century A.D., let alone Muslim Palestinians.




JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I learned on this board that "Israel is stealing "Palestinian land."  I am adamantly against land thieves & have asked to learn when did Israel's ancient land became this "Palestinian land" that Israel is stealing so I can condemn Israel.  Yet there has been no answer.  Why is that?
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well, it is true that the first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  In fact, there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century A.D., let alone Muslim Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jews established Israel 1500 years before muhammad was even born and he never set foot in Israel.

Fakestinians do not appear in their own quran but the Children of Israel do


----------



## ima (May 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well, it is true that the first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  In fact, there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century A.D., let alone Muslim Palestinians.



So when the first humans came out of Africa, they were already Jewish?


----------



## Hossfly (May 15, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it is true that the first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  In fact, there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century A.D., let alone Muslim Palestinians.
> ...


Actually, they were Methodist.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 15, 2012)

No no, of course not silly boy.  There were no Jews, aka Hebrews/Israelites until Abraham.  And he only appeared around 4000years ago.





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it is true that the first & only indigenous Palestinians WERE JEWS.  In fact, there were no Muslims at all until the 7th century A.D., let alone Muslim Palestinians.
> ...


----------



## ima (May 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> No no, of course not silly boy.  There were no Jews, aka Hebrews/Israelites until Abraham.  And he only appeared around 4000years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So all jews are immigrants as well then?

You have any solid proof of this Abraham dude?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 15, 2012)

ima said:


> _You have any solid proof of this Abraham dude?_


Oh, reads like a fatwable heresy!


----------



## docmauser1 (May 15, 2012)

ima said:


> _So when the first humans came out of Africa, they were already Jewish?_


With all those, looking for a "jewish conspiracy" behind a solar eclipse or a dead car battery, it's a done deal, of course!


----------



## docmauser1 (May 15, 2012)

ima said:


> _Arabs' homes and land were taken and they got booted out, "Palestinian" is just a generic term for these arabs, for lack of a better name._


That's what happens to professionally occupational palistanians. Doesn't reflect reality, but kewl!


----------



## MJB12741 (May 15, 2012)

Well lets see.  True we only have over two & one half billion people to attest to Abraham the first Jew or Hebrew or Israelite.  But I too think he might of been a Methodist.  Do you? 





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > No no, of course not silly boy.  There were no Jews, aka Hebrews/Israelites until Abraham.  And he only appeared around 4000years ago.
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 15, 2012)

What fun we have here.  Hows about we get back to the subject of how can there ever be peace here between Israel & the Palestinians. 

 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etDb5tXPawc&feature=player_embedded]Palestinian Children Taught to Hate Jews - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ima (May 16, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> What fun we have here.  Hows about we get back to the subject of how can there ever be peace here between Israel & the Palestinians.



Just curious, how is this any different fundamentally from Jews teaching their children they only Jews are the chosen people and everyone else is a gentile 2nd class person?


----------



## Hossfly (May 16, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What fun we have here.  Hows about we get back to the subject of how can there ever be peace here between Israel & the Palestinians.
> ...


The Jews don't teach their children about the tooth fairy,Easter possum or the 72 dancing girls.


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What fun we have here.  Hows about we get back to the subject of how can there ever be peace here between Israel & the Palestinians.
> ...



The Quran sez Allah made the Jews HIS Chosen People.  Different Gods both chose the Jews.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 16, 2012)

Got news for you.  Never have I known any Jew who preaches that the Jews are God's chosen people.  But I do know several Christians who make that claim.  Hey I have an idea.  Lets blame "God's chosen people" on Israel.  Okay by you?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What fun we have here.  Hows about we get back to the subject of how can there ever be peace here between Israel & the Palestinians.
> ...


----------



## JStone (May 16, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Got news for you.  Never have I known any Jew who preaches that the Jews are God's chosen people.  But I do know several Christians who make that claim.  Hey I have an idea.  Lets blame "God's chosen people" on Israel.  Okay by you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Christians, particularly evangelicals, view Israel as the only country in the world created by God and, thus, sacred.


----------



## ima (May 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Got news for you.  Never have I known any Jew who preaches that the Jews are God's chosen people.  But I do know several Christians who make that claim.  Hey I have an idea.  Lets blame "God's chosen people" on Israel.  Okay by you?
> 
> 
> ima said:
> ...



As if.


----------



## Lipush (May 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What fun we have here.  Hows about we get back to the subject of how can there ever be peace here between Israel & the Palestinians.
> ...





Ima could an "antisemitism for dummies" book. Will be a huge success for "the-bored-and-in-need-of-getting-a-life" people.


----------



## ima (May 17, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Lips could write a book on "Getting into Judaism for beaners", but she'd first have to learn the fundamentals of the religion.
But I'll give you points because you got the part right where anyone who criticizes Judaism is an anti-semite.


----------



## Lipush (May 17, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



"...but she'd first have to learn the fundamentals of the religion."
I have no idea what youre talking about.


----------



## ima (May 17, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


Exactly my point.


----------



## Lipush (May 17, 2012)

ima said:


> Lipush said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



so you have one?

Could have fooled me


----------



## MJB12741 (May 17, 2012)

Ima seems to have a problem of posting without ever thinking.





Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Lipush said:
> ...


----------



## ima (May 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Ima seems to have a problem of posting without ever thinking.
> 
> 
> Lipush said:
> ...


So exactly how long have you been thinking about your plan to have Hamas decide for the Israelis how many of them to kill before they give up and all leave town? That's fucking brilliant!


----------



## Lipush (May 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Ima seems to have a problem of posting without ever thinking.
> ...



Talk to me once you're sober.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 17, 2012)

Oh Ima.  What am I to do with you.  My proposal is a peace proposal so the Palestinians can remain in Israel as long as they don't kill their host Israeli's. 




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Ima seems to have a problem of posting without ever thinking.
> ...


----------



## ima (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh Ima.  What am I to do with you.  My proposal is a peace proposal so the Palestinians can remain in Israel as long as they don't kill their host Israeli's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what are you going to do, round up all the pallies and say: everyone who wants to live in peace raise your hand and move to the left. The you gun down the rest? Gas them? Stick them in ovens. What exactly?
We could send them to Oz, no one would care.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Ima.  What am I to do with you.  My proposal is a peace proposal so the Palestinians can remain in Israel as long as they don't kill their host Israeli's.
> ...


Sounds as if you are the bloodthirsty one.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

What terrible thoughts you have.  What do you have against Palestinians?  Don't you want Israeli's & Palestinians living in peace?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh Ima.  What am I to do with you.  My proposal is a peace proposal so the Palestinians can remain in Israel as long as they don't kill their host Israeli's.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> What terrible thoughts you have.  What do you have against Palestinians?  Don't you want Israeli's & Palestinians living in peace?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Don't you want Israeli's & Palestinians living in peace?



Sure, but the Israeli government is keeping that from happening.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

BINGO!  How right you are on this one Tinmore.  Peace offerings to Palestinians, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in Israel. And those Zionist leaders in Israel just can't seem to understnd why Israel is thanked with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Truly if there is ever to be any hope for a lasting peace, this entire Zionist agenda has to go.




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What terrible thoughts you have.  What do you have against Palestinians?  Don't you want Israeli's & Palestinians living in peace?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> BINGO!  How right you are on this one Tinmore.  Peace offerings to Palestinians, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in Israel. And those Zionist leaders in Israel just can't seem to understnd why Israel is thanked with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Truly if there is ever to be any hope for a lasting peace, this entire Zionist agenda has to go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Israel has never offered jack to the Palestinians.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Hmmm.  So then, do you think maybe Israel should take back Gaza?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > BINGO!  How right you are on this one Tinmore.  Peace offerings to Palestinians, a security fence & land concessions so the Palestinians can remain in Israel. And those Zionist leaders in Israel just can't seem to understnd why Israel is thanked with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Truly if there is ever to be any hope for a lasting peace, this entire Zionist agenda has to go.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hmmm.  So then, do you think maybe Israel should take back Gaza?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Gaza never belonged to Israel.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

It sure as hell did after the Arab countries united to annihilate Israel in the 67 Arab/Israeli war.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm.  So then, do you think maybe Israel should take back Gaza?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It sure as hell did after the Arab countries united to annihilate Israel in the 67 Arab/Israeli war.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It still did not belong to Israel.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

For your education:  All land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  Consider that all Muslim lands are stolen lands.  Know what I mean?  Example --- "It's lstanbul, not Constantinople."  Get it yet?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > It sure as hell did after the Arab countries united to annihilate Israel in the 67 Arab/Israeli war.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> For your education:  All land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  Consider that all Muslim lands are stolen lands.  Know what I mean?  Example --- "It's lstanbul, not Constantinople."  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You seem to have a problem distinguishing the difference between occupation and ownership. If they were the same, they would not have two different names.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Oh, and Tinmore, what ever happened to Zoroastrian Persia's land?  Was it those land theiving Zionists who conquered it by force & gave the indigenous Zoroastrians a choice to convert, leave or be killed?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > For your education:  All land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period in time.  Consider that all Muslim lands are stolen lands.  Know what I mean?  Example --- "It's lstanbul, not Constantinople."  Get it yet?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh, and Tinmore, what ever happened to Zoroastrian Persia's land?  Was it those land theiving Zionists who conquered it by force & gave the indigenous Zoroastrians a choice to convert, leave or be killed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that relevant to the Israel Palestine conflict? Perhaps you should ask that in a different forum.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Yes indeed I find that very relevant.  You accuse Israel of "stealing Palestinian land" even though the Israeli's were there from around 1200 BCE & not a single Muslim, let alone Palestinian Muslim even existed until after the 7th century AD.  Yet you never accuse the Muslims over all the lands they stole from those who lived there for century's before them.  Why is that Tinmore?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and Tinmore, what ever happened to Zoroastrian Persia's land?  Was it those land theiving Zionists who conquered it by force & gave the indigenous Zoroastrians a choice to convert, leave or be killed?
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Eh, Tinmore, you still here?  Chime in boy.




MJB12741 said:


> Yes indeed I find that very relevant.  You accuse Israel of "stealing Palestinian land" even though the Israeli's were there from around 1200 BCE & not a single Muslim, let alone Palestinian Muslim even existed until after the 7th century AD.  Yet you never accuse the Muslims over all the lands they stole from those who lived there for century's before them.  Why is that Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes indeed I find that very relevant.  You accuse Israel of "stealing Palestinian land" even though the Israeli's were there from around 1200 BCE & not a single Muslim, let alone Palestinian Muslim even existed until after the 7th century AD.  Yet you never accuse the Muslims over all the lands they stole from those who lived there for century's before them.  Why is that Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Palestinian land belonged to the Muslims, Christians, and Jews whose normal residence was inside the borders that were defined in 1922. Palestine belonged to those Jews the same as the other people living there.

Was there a problem with that arrangement?


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

Well uh, wasn't the land Israel's even before 1922?  Or was there no Israel until 1948?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes indeed I find that very relevant.  You accuse Israel of "stealing Palestinian land" even though the Israeli's were there from around 1200 BCE & not a single Muslim, let alone Palestinian Muslim even existed until after the 7th century AD.  Yet you never accuse the Muslims over all the lands they stole from those who lived there for century's before them.  Why is that Tinmore?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well uh, wasn't the land Israel's even before 1922?  Or was there no Israel until 1948?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Was there an Israel in 1948. Could you post a 1948 map of Israel?


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well uh, wasn't the land Israel's even before 1922?  Or was there no Israel until 1948?
> ...


The earth was without form and void; and darkness _was_ on the face of the deep. And there were no maps for there were no boundaries; nor could there be until the child-like Palisimians made it so. Go and sin no more, turkey. Free Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...





> And there were no maps for there were no boundaries;...



You got that right. And there still are no boundaries.

How can anyone say that the Arabs attacked Israel when Israel didn't even know where it was.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The Arabs attacked the Jews instead of attacking Israel?


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Could they have been in the 4th dimension?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



The real question is where they were attacked.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Where do you think they were attacked?


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



History says that the Arab states invaded Palestine.

That would make the Arabs the *defenders* of Palestine. The Arabs were not the aggressors.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Dear Jesus, I've heard everything now.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



After they declared the establishment of a Jewish state, the Arabs attacked.
That would make the Arabs the aggressors.
And after they lost, that would make them the losers.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



No you haven't.

Watch this space.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Tinsley, if you were half as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't be half as smart as I think you are. And that's not very smart, bub.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



You probably think that the Arab states attacked Israel.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Acually, NO. I think they made it all up because they were attacked by a troop of Girl Scouts and were ashamed to admit it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Actually none of those Arab states entered Israel.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


o k


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



They weren't even in town, they had a wedding to go to, yeah, that's the ticket.

(And they still managed to get their asses kicked)


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You need to read up. The Arabs did not lose the 1948 war.


----------



## Hossfly (May 18, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


Gimmee a reference,Clyde. I don't know where to look except for Grimm's Fairy Tales.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Sure, read the 1949 armistice agreements. There are four of them. The Avalon Project at Yale Law has the exact texts.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 18, 2012)

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-242.pdf


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-242.pdf



.mythsandfacts is an Israeli propaganda site.

What are we supposed to look at here?


----------



## docmauser1 (May 19, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _.mythsandfacts is an Israeli propaganda site. What are we supposed to look at here?_


No silly arab agitprop, of course.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 19, 2012)

It clearly shows that the Arab objective in uniting on several fronts was to destroy Israel.  Seems to me the fact that Israel still remains means the Arabs lost.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/10/resolution-242.pdf
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 19, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Here are the links.

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949
The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949


----------



## MJB12741 (May 20, 2012)

'Palestinian' Attacks Stall Israeli Aid to Gaza - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News


----------



## Hossfly (May 20, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Someone is definitely stuck in 1948.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 20, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



Indeed, the most important time in Israel's history. It sets the framework for all that has transpired since.

That is why a 1948 map of Israel and the 1949 armistice agreements are critical in understanding the conflict.


----------



## Hossfly (May 20, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


The agreement is: A whole shitload of Ayrabs attacked Israel, who handed said Ayrabs an asswhupping. Laid a scunion upon those unwashed heathens.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 20, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



You obviously have not read the agreements.

And nobody has ever posted a 1948 map of Israel showing where it was attacked.


----------



## Hossfly (May 20, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Not a valid point, Sherlock.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 20, 2012)

Do you have a 1967 map of Palestine showing where the Arab countries mounted to annihilate Israel?





Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 20, 2012)

You see, the Arab countries could not annihilate Israel but they did change Israels borders at the expense of the Palestinians who the Arabs were supposed to help.





MJB12741 said:


> Do you have a 1967 map of Palestine showing where the Arab countries mounted to annihilate Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 20, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> You see, the Arab countries could not annihilate Israel but they did change Israels borders at the expense of the Palestinians who the Arabs were supposed to help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do you have any documents to show the change in borders?


----------



## Hossfly (May 21, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > You see, the Arab countries could not annihilate Israel but they did change Israels borders at the expense of the Palestinians who the Arabs were supposed to help.
> ...


They exist but are not avaible to the public. They're in honolulu locked up with O'Bama's birth certificate.


----------



## ima (May 21, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


In other words, no.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

Documents?  Of course not.  So are you saying Israel did not gain any additional land after the 67 war?  That sure would be news to me.




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > You see, the Arab countries could not annihilate Israel but they did change Israels borders at the expense of the Palestinians who the Arabs were supposed to help.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Documents?  Of course not.  So are you saying Israel did not gain any additional land after the 67 war?  That sure would be news to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No it didn't.

It probably would be.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

Well then what's this talk about disputed land all about?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Documents?  Of course not.  So are you saying Israel did not gain any additional land after the 67 war?  That sure would be news to me.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Well then what's this talk about disputed land all about?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Disputed" is an Israeli propaganda talking point. It has no meaning.


----------



## Hossfly (May 21, 2012)

ima said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


But, do you have the need to know? That's the first rule of classified documents and equipment.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

Okay.  So, we agree that what I call Israel & what you call Palestine is the same piece of land.  Therefore Israel's borders are whatever Palestine's borders are & vice versa.  We also agree there were no Muslims at all, thus no Muslim Palestinians even possible until the 7th century AD.  And we agree that Jews, Christians & "others" lived on this piece of land before stolen by Islam.  Is this all correct so far?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Well then what's this talk about disputed land all about?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Okay.  So, we agree that what I call Israel & what you call Palestine is the same piece of land.  Therefore Israel's borders are whatever Palestine's borders are & vice versa.  We also agree there were no Muslims at all, thus no Muslim Palestinians even possible until the 7th century AD.  And we agree that Jews, Christians & "others" lived on this piece of land before stolen by Islam.  Is this all correct so far?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 21, 2012)

What part or parts of this do we no longer agree on?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay.  So, we agree that what I call Israel & what you call Palestine is the same piece of land.  Therefore Israel's borders are whatever Palestine's borders are & vice versa.  We also agree there were no Muslims at all, thus no Muslim Palestinians even possible until the 7th century AD.  And we agree that Jews, Christians & "others" lived on this piece of land before stolen by Islam.  Is this all correct so far?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> What part or parts of this do we no longer agree on?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Therefore Israel's borders are whatever Palestine's borders are & vice versa.



You are confusing two different kinds of borders. 

The international borders are Palestine's borders. They belong to the Palestinians.

The UN armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. These areas of occupation were defined by the armistice lines that were specifically not borders. In some cases the armistice lines followed the international borders but they did not change the international borders, They were merely an overlay.



> And we agree that Jews, Christians & "others" lived on this piece of land before stolen by Islam.



I don't understand what you mean by that.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Okay.  So, we agree that what I call Israel & what you call Palestine is the same piece of land.  Therefore Israel's borders are whatever Palestine's borders are & vice versa.  We also agree there were no Muslims at all, thus no Muslim Palestinians even possible until the 7th century AD.  And we agree that Jews, Christians & "others" lived on this piece of land before stolen by Islam.  Is this all correct so far?



You are confused; only muslims can ever "own" land in the mideast - other groups can only live there at the behest of their muslim masters.  Only muslims can "win" land by war, others have to use diplomacy - i.e., sign agreements, that the muslims can violate at will but the non-muslims must always adhere to the very letter of.  Only muslims in the middle east can have sovereign control, all others must accept diminished, minority status.

That should help.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 22, 2012)

But how can this be.  You yourself agreed that what I call Israel & you call Palestine is one & the same piece of land.  If that is true then whatever borders you claim are Palestines, are also Israel's.  Now then if Israel & Palestine are not the same piece of land according to you anymore, then we can work together from that premise.  So which is it?

And it was also you who said Jews, Christians & others lived on this land before there were any Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians.  Is that not true anymore?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What part or parts of this do we no longer agree on?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> But how can this be.  You yourself agreed that what I call Israel & you call Palestine is one & the same piece of land.  If that is true then whatever borders you claim are Palestines, are also Israel's.  Now then if Israel & Palestine are not the same piece of land according to you anymore, then we can work together from that premise.  So which is it?
> 
> And it was also you who said Jews, Christians & others lived on this land before there were any Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians.  Is that not true anymore?
> 
> ...



You are still confused over borders and armistice lines.

Have you read the armistice agreements. I posted the links.


----------



## rhodescholar (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> But how can this be.  You yourself agreed that what I call Israel & you call Palestine is one & the same piece of land.  If that is true then whatever borders you claim are Palestines, are also Israel's.  Now then if Israel & Palestine are not the same piece of land according to you anymore, then we can work together from that premise.  So which is it? And it was also you who said Jews, Christians & others lived on this land before there were any Muslims at all, let alone Muslim Palestinians.  Is that not true anymore?



You are seeking reason, logic and consistency from the mentally ill - you have no chance of locating it with them.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 22, 2012)

Please corect me ifr I am wrong her.  yousee, I actually believe that that 1949 armistice lines were hononed by Israel all the way till the Arabs united to wipe Israel off the face of the earth in 1967.  Do you think maybe the Arabs made a mistake that the Palestinians have been paying for ever since?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > But how can this be.  You yourself agreed that what I call Israel & you call Palestine is one & the same piece of land.  If that is true then whatever borders you claim are Palestines, are also Israel's.  Now then if Israel & Palestine are not the same piece of land according to you anymore, then we can work together from that premise.  So which is it?
> ...


----------



## Hossfly (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Please corect me ifr I am wrong her.  yousee, I actually believe that that 1949 armistice lines were hononed by Israel all the way till the Arabs united to wipe Israel off the face of the earth in 1967.  Do you think maybe the Arabs made a mistake that the Palestinians have been paying for ever since?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tinmore probably bases his weird assumptions of the Israeli/Palestinian situation as if they've been playing "Simon Sez" during all these years.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 22, 2012)

If the Arabs had not united to annihilate Israel in 67, the 49 armistice line would still be in effect.  Fact is wars change borders.  Consider the USA with Mexico & most of the European countries fighting their wars against each other.  How many times have Europe's country borders changed over the years due to wars?





Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Please corect me ifr I am wrong her.  yousee, I actually believe that that 1949 armistice lines were hononed by Israel all the way till the Arabs united to wipe Israel off the face of the earth in 1967.  Do you think maybe the Arabs made a mistake that the Palestinians have been paying for ever since?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Please corect me ifr I am wrong her.  yousee, I actually believe that that 1949 armistice lines were hononed by Israel all the way till the Arabs united to wipe Israel off the face of the earth in 1967.  Do you think maybe the Arabs made a mistake that the Palestinians have been paying for ever since?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> I actually believe that that 1949 armistice lines were hononed by Israel...



That's nice but they are still not borders. Israel does not recognize them as borders. Palestine does not recognize them as borders.

It is interesting that the UN does and it is the one who said they were not to be borders.


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 22, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If the Arabs had not united to annihilate Israel in 67, the 49 armistice line would still be in effect.  Fact is wars change borders.  Consider the USA with Mexico & most of the European countries fighting their wars against each other.  How many times have Europe's country borders changed over the years due to wars?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Fact is wars change borders.



Sometimes the do. When a war ends and peace agreements are signed there could be changes.

When the Israel/Palestine war ends, that may happen.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 23, 2012)

Regretfully I believe that history has proven the Israel/Palestinian conflict can only end with a one state solution by Israel finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If the Arabs had not united to annihilate Israel in 67, the 49 armistice line would still be in effect.  Fact is wars change borders.  Consider the USA with Mexico & most of the European countries fighting their wars against each other.  How many times have Europe's country borders changed over the years due to wars?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (May 23, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Regretfully I believe that history has proven the Israel/Palestinian conflict can only end with a one state solution by Israel finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wouldn't put any money on that.


----------



## MJB12741 (May 23, 2012)

What do you suggest for a lasting peace between Israel & the Palestinians?  Are you for a two state solution where Israel can then easily kill Palestinians without having to sort out the Israeli's?





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Regretfully I believe that history has proven the Israel/Palestinian conflict can only end with a one state solution by Israel finding an incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 24, 2012)

Seriously I see no way for peace with any two state solution.  Just two states at endless war with Israel then having an enormous advantage to wipe out Palestinian terrorists at will without having any Israeli's in the way to be concerned about.





MJB12741 said:


> What do you suggest for a lasting peace between Israel & the Palestinians?  Are you for a two state solution where Israel can then easily kill Palestinians without having to sort out the Israeli's?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

Eh, Tinmore, you still here.  Time to chime if with your wisdom.





MJB12741 said:


> What do you suggest for a lasting peace between Israel & the Palestinians?  Are you for a two state solution where Israel can then easily kill Palestinians without having to sort out the Israeli's?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ima (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Seriously I see no way for peace with any two state solution.  Just two states at endless war with Israel then having an enormous advantage to wipe out Palestinian terrorists at will without having any Israeli's in the way to be concerned about.



So they should kick all the arabs out of Israeli/kill them, clear Gaza, and the WB and have a Jewish only country? Man, you're fucking brilliant!!!!!


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## MJB12741 (May 25, 2012)

No no Ima.  I want everyone to live in peace.  But how does anyone achieve peace with Palestinians?  Even no Arab country ever could until Jordan gave them Black September.  Do you not agree?  LET THERE BE PECE ALREADY!





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously I see no way for peace with any two state solution.  Just two states at endless war with Israel then having an enormous advantage to wipe out Palestinian terrorists at will without having any Israeli's in the way to be concerned about.
> ...


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## ima (May 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> No no Ima.  I want everyone to live in peace.  But how does anyone achieve peace with Palestinians?  Even no Arab country ever could until Jordan gave them Black September.  Do you not agree?  LET THERE BE PECE ALREADY!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So again, you think a mass cull of arabs is in order? I know you're going to say that Hamas should decide how many should die, so what if they say everyone?


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## MJB12741 (May 26, 2012)

BINGO!  How proud of you I am Ima.  I think you are beginning to get it.  If Hamas says that, the Palestinian people themselves would kill their own Hamas leaders & work for peace with Israel.  Let us join together & pray Hamas says Israel will have to kill all the Palestinians.





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > No no Ima.  I want everyone to live in peace.  But how does anyone achieve peace with Palestinians?  Even no Arab country ever could until Jordan gave them Black September.  Do you not agree?  LET THERE BE PECE ALREADY!
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> BINGO!  How proud of you I am Ima.  I think you are beginning to get it.  If Hamas says that, the Palestinian people themselves would kill their own Hamas leaders & work for peace with Israel.  Let us join together & pray Hamas says Israel will have to kill all the Palestinians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are frikkin weird.


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## MJB12741 (May 26, 2012)

Here we go again with the name calling by a man who believes that when then is nothing rational left to say but to call another poster derogatory names, the issue is over & you lose.  Pretty frustrating, huh?




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > BINGO!  How proud of you I am Ima.  I think you are beginning to get it.  If Hamas says that, the Palestinian people themselves would kill their own Hamas leaders & work for peace with Israel.  Let us join together & pray Hamas says Israel will have to kill all the Palestinians.
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Here we go again with the name calling by a man who believes that when then is nothing rational left to say but to call another poster derogatory names, the issue is over & you lose.  Pretty frustrating, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not name calling. Just an assessment.

There is nothing rational that can be said about your post.


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## MJB12741 (May 26, 2012)

Well, for whatever it may be worth, I don't think you're fricken' weird, no matter what you say that I may disagree with.  




P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go again with the name calling by a man who believes that when then is nothing rational left to say but to call another poster derogatory names, the issue is over & you lose.  Pretty frustrating, huh?
> ...


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## ima (May 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Here we go again with the name calling by a man who believes that when then is nothing rational left to say but to call another poster derogatory names, the issue is over & you lose.  Pretty frustrating, huh?



The pro-Izzy side on this board does nothing but name-calling. Does that mean they've all already lost the debates?


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## Lipush (May 27, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go again with the name calling by a man who believes that when then is nothing rational left to say but to call another poster derogatory names, the issue is over & you lose.  Pretty frustrating, huh?
> ...



If you're not wise enough to read between the lines, that is not our issue.


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## ima (May 27, 2012)

Lipush said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Lips, I give you your props, you don't name call.


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## P F Tinmore (May 27, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go again with the name calling by a man who believes that when then is nothing rational left to say but to call another poster derogatory names, the issue is over & you lose.  Pretty frustrating, huh?
> ...



And besides, I was not in that debate. I was merely an outside observer.


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## MJB12741 (May 27, 2012)

In any discussion or debate, when all that is left is to call the adversary derogatory names --- You lose!


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## Hossfly (May 27, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


Well then, you must have been a human shield.


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## ima (May 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> In any discussion or debate, when all that is left is to call the adversary derogatory names --- You lose!



So Rhodescholar lost or is a loser, or both. 
And our favorite banned person JewStone.
And Jillian.
And Toddthegayname.
And Horsefly.


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## Hossfly (May 27, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > In any discussion or debate, when all that is left is to call the adversary derogatory names --- You lose!
> ...


What's a derogatory name, Eunice.?


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## MJB12741 (May 28, 2012)

A derogatory name would be like calling your adversary "a friggin idiot."  Who was it that said that Tinmore?





Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> A derogatory name would be like calling your adversary "a friggin idiot."  Who was it that said that Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Twas not me.


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## bobgnote (May 29, 2012)

JStone said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > By 126 A.D. and Hadrian's decree, neo-zionist Jews wanted back into Syria-Palestina, as Hadrian called it.
> ...



I know I did not make any errors, but rather, you are a Zionist, which seeks to add some good but irrelevant information, which I admit, I did not know.  

The plain fact is modern Israel is ruled by a tyrannical regime, composed of persons, of diluted Semitic ancestry, which like to engage propaganda, while they steal all the land they can and kill all the people they can.  That regime has a history to it, and it has a tendency to violate USCA 4, the separation clause, the enumeration clause regarding 'common defense,' and the RICO Act and Sedition Act, in 18 U.S.Code.

Look at the creepy replies, to my valid, original post!  No wonder Iran wants the nuke.

Smoke if you got 'em.


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## bobgnote (May 29, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.


Habirus and their allies which killed everybody they could kill in the area of the Sea of Galilee to found Israel and Judea are from an area in Abyssinia.

That was a source of irony, in that Y'shua (Jesus) spoke Aramaic, from conquest by Aramid tribes, before the Romans took over Judea.  The Aramids were also from Abyssinia.

But you cannot find Zionist fascists, who want to invade Ethiopia, unless they worked for Benito Mussolini, back in the 1930s and early 1940s.  We CAN find Zionist fascists, who will distort every last bit of information and every public agenda, to justify their modern conquest.

The reason for any mosque is Judaism didn't suit dominant culture, until the industrial revolution, when seditious Christians decided 'settlement' of Palestine would suit a modern Crusade.  Christianity was not sufficient, to dominant culture, until Constantine, but it has a lot of flaws, vis a vis virgin birth, Catholic media such as removal of vital gospels, and generally nasty fascists, which support Christianity, over time.  Ask yourself 'the question!'

My answer is 'yes,' but take off, eh!  

So Islam developed.  As for which building was where, when, this is not relevant.  Zionist institutions are a nuisance, to the US and to the rest of the world.


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## Hossfly (May 29, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.
> ...


UPDATE:

There is a tribe of Zionist "fascists" waiting to go to Zion to Caterpillarize that ugly looking yellow onion Dome and the Royal Stables aka Al Aqsa mosque and commence building the 3d Temple.No hurry. Just waiting on the go ahead. How 'bout them apples?


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## bobgnote (May 29, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> There is a tribe of Zionist "fascists" waiting to go to Zion to Caterpillarize that ugly looking yellow onion Dome and the Royal Stables aka Al Aqsa mosque and commence building the 3d Temple.No hurry. Just waiting on the go ahead. How 'bout them apples?


Yep.  Ariel Sharon is in a coma, but his bulldozers keep on keeping on.

If we didin't have a lot of people including Jimmy Carter watching and complaining about Zionists, they'd go ahead and whack everybody, like they did, after the ancient mob of Habirus stoned Moses.  The ancient invaders took advantage of the eruption of Thera, to escape from Egyptian control, with a lot of Egyptian gear, get to the Sea of Galilee, and kill every man, woman, and child, in Ai, Jericho, Hazor, and about 50 other places.

We are liable to lose the Earth as a human habitat, by the next eruption, of Thera.  We are liable to lose the US mainland, when Yellowstone erupts.  And of course, the US guarantees Israel's oil, and neither the US nor Israel develops CO2-neutral biomass, to compete with petroleum, but look at 'em all go get nuclear power!

The stampeding killers will bust all the chromosomes, of those they neglect to murder.  Acidification and warming are accelerating, and the oceanic food chain is threatened.  All this manifest-destiny-land-grab nonsense has a carbon footprint, so we might get to mass extinction event 6, before we see peace.  Sorry about Yitzhak Rabin's death . . .


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## Hossfly (May 29, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > There is a tribe of Zionist "fascists" waiting to go to Zion to Caterpillarize that ugly looking yellow onion Dome and the Royal Stables aka Al Aqsa mosque and commence building the 3d Temple.No hurry. Just waiting on the go ahead. How 'bout them apples?
> ...


If all that comes to pass I may have to join Castro's Army.


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## rhodescholar (May 29, 2012)

ima said:


> So Rhodescholar lost or is a loser, or both. .



I am merely re-inforcing the beatdowns I apply to the ignorant, racist trash permeating this forum with colorful language and shining symbols of their vanquished selves.  Think of it like branding cattle with scars that will never heal.


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## rhodescholar (May 29, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> If we didin't have a lot of people including Jimmy Carter watching and complaining about Zionists, they'd go ahead and whack everybody,



Hilarious, this idiot.  Thank goodness for jimmy carter - who knew that an 85-year old was so powerful he could stop all those zionists with a single punch? 

I think of Lamont in American History X mocking the klan when I read posts from morons like this.


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## Hossfly (May 29, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Lets figure out this land issue rationally & without bias.  Which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque?  Once we know that we will know who is stealing who's land.
> ...


Good thing we have AIPAC. And what in the world would we do without ZOG?


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## MJB12741 (May 29, 2012)

LMAO!  





Hossfly said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (May 29, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



Yeah, what would we do without those freeloaders mooching our money?


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## Hossfly (May 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...


AIPAC exists from donations and the ZOG is elected. Why do you think the American people keeps ZOG in office? Your pissing and moaning won't change a thing.


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## P F Tinmore (May 29, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



AIPAC always has its hand out like a bunch of bums.


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## Hossfly (May 29, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Try giving them a generous donation and they'll go away.


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## Billo_Really (May 29, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Try giving them a generous donation and they'll go away.


If I was President, I'd outlaw AIPAC in the continental United States.  I'd make it a federal crime for any member of AIPAC to officially contact a member of Congress.


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## P F Tinmore (May 29, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7pU5aZmYbM]Move Over AIPAC Flashmob (D.C. Union Station) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Hossfly (May 29, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Try giving them a generous donation and they'll go away.
> ...


I don't think so. The President doesn't make laws. And the ZOG lawmakers (Congress) won't pass 'em. Checkmate.


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## P F Tinmore (May 29, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttJGEc5pPHU&feature=related]Move Over AIPAC 2011, Washington DC - YouTube[/ame]


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## ima (May 30, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > So Rhodescholar lost or is a loser, or both. .
> ...



Gee, you really have a high opinion of yourself, don't you? 
The only people who get branded like cattle are Jews.


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## MJB12741 (May 30, 2012)

Fact is ZOG RULES.  That is why there will never be Sharia law in the USA.  Repeat after me --- GOD BLESS ZOG!





Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


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## bobgnote (May 30, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


I don't like the way AIPAC contacts representatives, and I don't like the way Christians and other Zionists have violated the separation clause, on their way to violating the standing army clause and enumeration of powers clause, to belittle the definition, of 'common defense,' and to exacerbate their sedition, over time, with aid to fascist Israel.

Let's see how they'd handle a righteous information, from the US Attorney.  Pricks.


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## MJB12741 (May 30, 2012)

Hey, look at the bright side.  Long after your life is over, Israel will still be thriving thanks to Zog's Christians & Jews.  And you won't have to suffer over it any longer.






bobgnote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (May 30, 2012)

There will be no sharia law here in the USA thanks to ZOG.


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## bobgnote (May 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> There will be no sharia law here in the USA thanks to ZOG.


. . . but no thanks, to ZOG.  We might end up with a steady increase, in the number of Muslims, in the US, even if the Feds and NYPD are bugging them.

Know why?  You Zion-nazis are assholes.  People will have to get you out of influence, since you suck, and you are greedy about it.  You don't have any sort of restraint.  You are not like Meyer Lansky, who was a modest gangster.  I guess when he got busted, you freaks all decided to go off.


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## MJB12741 (May 30, 2012)

Hey, talking about Zionists & NY, I am so pissed with that Zio-Pig N.Y. Jew mayor Blumberg who leads the battle for a Muslim Cultural Center & Mosque near the site of 911 where around 3000 innocent people of all races, religions & ethnicities were murdered on our own soil by Middle East Muslim terrorists.  And then in Israel we have Netanyahu who makes peace offerings to Palestinians, builds a security fence & concedes land to the Palestinians so they remain in Israel to kill his citizens.  Just look what Zionism has become.  Disgusting!





bobgnote said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > There will be no sharia law here in the USA thanks to ZOG.
> ...


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## Hossfly (May 30, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > There will be no sharia law here in the USA thanks to ZOG.
> ...


Hey there Ms Bobngote, you don't have to say 'Zion-nazis' when you mean 'Jews.' We're not that formal here. Now, MJB is a Zionist Jew and I am but a Zionist infidel heathen. And you are.............?


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## Billo_Really (May 30, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> I don't think so. The President doesn't make laws. And the ZOG lawmakers (Congress) won't pass 'em. Checkmate.


Not so fast!

I've already contemplated this and have come up with a solution for the little problem.

I'll just add AIPAC to the _*"Terrorist Watch List"*_ and done deal.  That is something I do control and nobody can do a damn thing about it.  It also effectively ends AIPAC related activities anywhere in the US.


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## Hossfly (May 30, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think so. The President doesn't make laws. And the ZOG lawmakers (Congress) won't pass 'em. Checkmate.
> ...


Doe's that mean I can't donate to AIPAC anymore? Shit.


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## Billo_Really (May 30, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Doe's that mean I can't donate to AIPAC anymore? Shit.


That's right!  If you do, I'd have to throw you in GITMO.

But if you're dead set on contributions to someone, for enough money and dope, I'll be your bitch!


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## ima (May 31, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Doe's that mean I can't donate to AIPAC anymore? Shit.
> ...



I think all his money goes to buy viagra.


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## bobgnote (May 31, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> bobgnote said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


What you are is a piece of shit, likely baptized under some name, like 'Fuck-tard.'

MJB can speak for himself, without any F-tards trying to suck him in, since he knows you suck, and he wouldn't want to move next-door to you, any more than you want him near you.  Good luck, being a heathen; I prefer atheism.  But I support the peace, since I know why Islam needs that, and the Qu'ran is better media, than Jews or Christians write.

When MJB wants to know something, better than starting a Crusade, for fuck-tards:

Jews Not Zionists


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## MJB12741 (May 31, 2012)

I really don't think it would be wise for you to get into a fight with Hossfly.  Do you?




bobgnote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...


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## bobgnote (May 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I really don't think it would be wise for you to get into a fight with Hossfly.  Do you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what do you want, Ms.Pac-man?  Free advice, from me?


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## MJB12741 (May 31, 2012)

Just curious bobgnote, when you were just a tiny baby, did someone stick their thumb in your soft spot?




bobgnote said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I really don't think it would be wise for you to get into a fight with Hossfly.  Do you?
> ...


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## Hossfly (May 31, 2012)

bobgnote said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > bobgnote said:
> ...


Ms. Bobnggote, you revealed yourself much quicker than expected. Make sure you don't check under the bed before you go to sleep tonight. You might find a Jew there and we wouldn't want you to dirty your Pampers. Another thing, how do you like my signature? Kinda neat, ain't it?


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## rhodescholar (May 31, 2012)

ima said:


> I think all his money goes to buy viagra.



Awww, the little chimp got banned, we're gonna miss this pussy.  Loin-idiot and liq-douche will soon be joining this turd in the dumpster soon - and the air will smell so much cleaner here.


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## MJB12741 (Jun 1, 2012)

Is it true Viagra makes it grow faster?






ima said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Jun 1, 2012)

Or was that Vigoro?  Oh well with 72 virgins awaiting those who martyr themselves, don't leave home without it.





MJB12741 said:


> Is it true Viagra makes it grow faster?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------

