# A Sensible Post About Iraq



## AntiParty (Jun 18, 2014)

Here is going to be the only SENSIBLE post about what is happening in Iraq. I'll use past notes from all parties to help the people think for themselves. 

Should we go to war with Iraq again?

First off ask yourself, IS IT NECESSARY THAT WE GO TO WAR WITH IRAQ AGAIN. These "why not" wars have to stop. Why do we keep jumping to War before taking time to think about Diplomacy (that means an alternate smarter route!) The Pen is still mightier than the sword. I'm sick with people who haven't grasped that OLD concept yet..

Right now we are in the NEW stage of something extreme that happened. It reminds me of the school shootings when lot's of America wanted to ban Assault Rifles. But the Right Wing wanted to let time go by so emotions were not part of the decision making process.  Emotions should play a part in all decisions but I digress.. The point is, don't jump to conclusions too soon...

Also, ask yourself why we were there. Bush had MILLIONS of dollars of donations from the Military Industrial Complex. He had "intelligence" and the Congress followed. Could we have avoided this war like we could have avoided almost every war for centuries now if we had used our brains?

What has this war done to America?
 If you are pro-life, read this word for word...
iCasualties | OIF | Iraq | Fatalities Details
And if you are a Fiscal Conservative, watch as Halliburton (Dick Cheney's Construction Corporation/Head of the Federal Reserve) still gets paid to rebuild Iraq. 
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/war-in-iraq/?gclid=CIHroLLUgr8CFSxo7AodnVEAPg

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5_ThKD2g4U]Ron Paul, anti-war - YouTube[/ame]

also


BTW I am not Libertarian. They aren't allowed to think beyond "Liberty no matter what". But Ron Paul is a great brain.


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## TemplarKormac (Jun 18, 2014)




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## KNB (Jun 18, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> "sensible"



    sen·si·ble
    [ sénss&#601;b'l ]

    showing good sense: having or demonstrating sound reason and judgment
    practical: practical, usually comfortable and hard-wearing, and not worn as an adornment
    subject to perception: able to be perceived through the senses


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## AntiParty (Jun 18, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> "sensible"



Awesome, you know a word! "Progress" (R)ight?


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## AntiParty (Jun 18, 2014)

Sensible...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXS3vW47mOE]The Plan -- according to U.S. General Wesley Clark (Ret.) - YouTube[/ame]


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## TemplarKormac (Jun 18, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> TemplarKormac said:
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> > "sensible"
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Yeah, you didn't want to make a 'sensible' post about Iraq, you wanted to be a troll.

Awesome, you know how to be a troll. Progress, right?


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## AntiParty (Jun 18, 2014)

Sensible..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23kmhc3P8U]With Us or Against Us - YouTube[/ame]


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## AntiParty (Jun 18, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> AntiParty said:
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My post was unbias and sensible kiddo.... Sorry you had bias about it. 

It simply stated that everyone is able to think for themselves. It held some history and some political knowledge. 

You don't seem to know what the word "TROLL" actually is. Because your post #2 is 100% TROLL. No information, no argument, no debate, just TROLL. 

Educate yourself little guy.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jun 18, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Here is going to be the only SENSIBLE post about what is happening in Iraq. I'll use past notes from all parties to help the people think for themselves.
> 
> Should we go to war with Iraq again?
> 
> ...



Given the fact it wasnt necessary to invade Iraq in the first place, as the invasion was illegal and unwarranted, its clearly not necessary to go to war now.


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## AntiParty (Jun 18, 2014)

Sensible..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq-ZmatOlvs]How CIA Kills Countries - YouTube[/ame]


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## TemplarKormac (Jun 18, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> TemplarKormac said:
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> > AntiParty said:
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Uh, no.

When you use terms such as 'military industrial complex' your post is far from unbiased. Your attack on the right wing for being 'emotional' also speaks against the objectivity of your post. 

I don't take trolls seriously, and I don't appreciate liars much either. Your post is pockmarked with political rhetoric. "If you are pro-life, read this word for word." 

Pretty shameless to sit there and say your post is 'unbiased.'

Please, educate yourself.


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## Ibentoken (Jun 18, 2014)

Extermination of terrorist scum is not the same as "going to war with Iraq".


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## KNB (Jun 18, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> When you use terms such as 'military industrial complex' your post is far from unbiased....
> 
> Please, educate yourself.



Have you ever heard of "Eisenhower Republicans"?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWiIYW_fBfY]Eisenhower Farewell Address (Full) - YouTube[/ame]

Please, educate yourself.


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## Ibentoken (Jun 18, 2014)

KNB said:


> TemplarKormac said:
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> > When you use terms such as 'military industrial complex' your post is far from unbiased....
> ...



The left loves that quote of Ike.  It's been tortured and abused by them to death.


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## tinydancer (Jun 18, 2014)

Iraq is begging for America's help as they are under attack by a terrorist army. This is not some rebel force that's beheading its way to Baghdad. ISIS and Levant are well known terror groups.

We would not be going to war with Iraq.


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## KNB (Jun 18, 2014)

Ibentoken said:


> The left loves that quote of Ike.  It's been tortured and abused by them to death.


So now Republicans aren't Republican enough for Republicans.  You people are fucking insane.

Did he use the term "military industrial complex" or not?  Yes he did.

A Republican talking monkey just said that people who use that term are biased.  A Republican made the term popular.  By your neo-Republican talking monkey "logic", Republicans are biased.  But that's okay because Eisenhower was a RINO, right?  He wasn't a _real_ Republican like stupid racist FOX-watching neo-Confederate Teabaggers.


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## tinydancer (Jun 18, 2014)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> AntiParty said:
> 
> 
> > Here is going to be the only SENSIBLE post about what is happening in Iraq. I'll use past notes from all parties to help the people think for themselves.
> ...



They've begged for America's help. If ISIS seizes Baghdad they will open up a whole new level of terrorism that will make bin Laden look like a boyscout.

When they grabbed Mosul they became the richest terror group on the planet by raiding the banks. Over 400 million dollars are lining their pockets now. And one must remember all the military hardware they get to play with if they take over Iraq. 

This is no Arab Spring.


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## Quantum Windbag (Jun 18, 2014)

If someone self describes their post as sensible, the last thing you should expect is sensibility.



AntiParty said:


> Here is going to be the only SENSIBLE post about what is happening in Iraq. I'll use past notes from all parties to help the people think for themselves.
> 
> Should we go to war with Iraq again?



If, by some chance, we actually went back into Iraq we wouldn't be going to war with them we would be going in at the invitation of the government to help fight an invading force. The difference between being sensible and being an idiot is recognizing that difference, and acknowledging it. 



AntiParty said:


> First off ask yourself, IS IT NECESSARY THAT WE GO TO WAR WITH IRAQ AGAIN. These "why not" wars have to stop. Why do we keep jumping to War before taking time to think about Diplomacy (that means an alternate smarter route!) The Pen is still mightier than the sword. I'm sick with people who haven't grasped that OLD concept yet..



Is it necessary for you to lie every time you put your fingers to a keyboard? 

The answer seems to be yes.



AntiParty said:


> Right now we are in the NEW stage of something extreme that happened. It reminds me of the school shootings when lot's of America wanted to ban Assault Rifles. But the Right Wing wanted to let time go by so emotions were not part of the decision making process.  Emotions should play a part in all decisions but I digress.. The point is, don't jump to conclusions too soon...



Emotions should play a part in all decisions, but wait now because emotions are wrong.

Got it, more drivel from the kid that thinks he is smart because his parents have lied to him his entire life.



AntiParty said:


> Also, ask yourself why we were there. Bush had MILLIONS of dollars of donations from the Military Industrial Complex. He had "intelligence" and the Congress followed. Could we have avoided this war like we could have avoided almost every war for centuries now if we had used our brains?



How would our brains have helped us avoid WWII? If you look at history you will see that there was a very strong isioalationist movement that wanted us to stay out of that war, and it was pretty successful, right up to the moment Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Our brains can accomplish a lot of things, but they cannot control the actions of other people.

And stop blaming Bush for everything you do not like, that is the antithesis of sensible.



AntiParty said:


> What has this war done to America?
> If you are pro-life, read this word for word...
> iCasualties | OIF | Iraq | Fatalities Details
> And if you are a Fiscal Conservative, watch as Halliburton (Dick Cheney's Construction Corporation/Head of the Federal Reserve) still gets paid to rebuild Iraq.
> ...



Damn, you are still hung up on the fact that libertarians are better educated than you and trying to belittle them because you hate looking stupid. The solution to that is to learn, not attack.


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## TemplarKormac (Jun 18, 2014)

So um, just a question...

People want to have compassion on the poor and less fortunate, who beg for our help here in the states. They want to clothe and feed them, make life an easier path to travel. But when a country abroad begs for our help in quelling a major threat to stability in the region, to stop a band of ruthless barbarians and murderers, why do some wish to abandon them in their time of need? Does that not contradict the very idea of you being compassionate?


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## Mojo2 (Jun 18, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Here is going to be the only SENSIBLE post about what is happening in Iraq. I'll use past notes from all parties to help the people think for themselves.
> 
> Should we go to war with Iraq again?
> 
> ...




Can you not imagine any situations where a POTUS might have a need to act in the best long term interests of peace and liberty and prosperity for the most numbers of people but not be able to explain the details to us?

No.

Of course not.

You take half a story and weave a narrative which indicts Pres. Bush for what he did. Yet you have never once tried to imagine what might have caused him to do what he did and be well justified in doing so, have you?

No.

And why haven't you?

Because you are either, too intellectually limited or too bigoted.

How do you explain the CBS 60 Minutes revelation by FBI Agent and Saddam's interrogator, George Pirro?


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## Mojo2 (Jun 18, 2014)

KNB said:


> Ibentoken said:
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> > The left loves that quote of Ike.  It's been tortured and abused by them to death.
> ...



*Yawn*

Your post uses so many tired lying cliches I think you must have cleaned out the cupboard!


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## zeke (Jun 18, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> AntiParty said:
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You stupid fuck temple of shit. Do you even know where the "military industrial complex" warning came from the very first time? You ever hear of a President named Eisenhower?

I thought you said you read a great deal of American history. LMAO.


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## zeke (Jun 18, 2014)

Mojo2 said:


> KNB said:
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And your weak ass excuse for a rebuke of the truth was a fucking joke. Just like you and the temple of shit. A joke.


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## Mac1958 (Jun 18, 2014)

.

1. It's not our planet to use like a kid's sandbox whenever we feel like it
2. We've caused enough damage by removing the strategic firewall Saddam and emboldening Iran and terrorist organizations
3. Many already hate us for sticking our nose and guns and bombs into the business of others on their land
4. We have a clear history of supporting people one day and worrying about them the next
5. 4,000+ lives, many many thousands more lost limbs and minds
6. $1+ trillion gone, gee, we could use some of that
7. Precisely *who the fuck* are we supposed to like, trust and support over there?

Madness.

.


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## Ibentoken (Jun 18, 2014)

KNB said:


> Ibentoken said:
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> > The left loves that quote of Ike.  It's been tortured and abused by them to death.
> ...



Where in the wide wide world of sports did you get the idea that I am a republican?  Make your argument and leave the dramatic hysteria to Hillary.


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## zeke (Jun 18, 2014)

Ibentoken said:


> KNB said:
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Seeing as how you aren't a Republican. What is the problem with pointing out that a true Republican President warned all of America about the growing "military industrial complex?"

Of course we ignored that warning and have paid for that ignorance. But it was a Repub who said it and had much more experience with that group than you or I ever will.

So what is the problem with the warning?


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## Ibentoken (Jun 18, 2014)

zeke said:


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I don't think it's relevant to current events in iraq.  Obama said the war in Iraq was over.  He lied again.  Do you support Obama.


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## LoneLaugher (Jun 18, 2014)

TemplarKormac said:


> So um, just a question...
> 
> People want to have compassion on the poor and less fortunate, who beg for our help here in the states. They want to clothe and feed them, make life an easier path to travel. But when a country abroad begs for our help in quelling a major threat to stability in the region, to stop a band of ruthless barbarians and murderers, why do some wish to abandon them in their time of need? Does that not contradict the very idea of you being compassionate?



Gee! What a great point you made! Just great! It doesn't matter that the two things that you link together have absolutely no relationship to one another. Not at all. 

Would you like to commit ground troops to defend Baghdad?


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## LoneLaugher (Jun 18, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> 1. It's not our planet to use like a kid's sandbox whenever we feel like it
> 2. We've caused enough damage by removing the strategic firewall Saddam and emboldening Iran and terrorist organizations
> ...



We agree on all counts. 

Earmuffs!


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## Avatar4321 (Jun 18, 2014)

I saw the link and i was thinking "he's claiming a sensible post, odds are it's not." I think the OP lost the claim to be sensible when he opened with, "here is going to be the _only_ sensible post". 

I am not at all advocating for war. But how do you expect to use diplomacy with terror organization like ISIS?

The current government is begging we come in and assist. If we had a Commander in Chief that was trustworthy with the lives of our men, I think we could consider it. But the President isn't. He will not fight to win. And if we don't fight to win, there is no point sending the troops there. If all we are going to do is go in, risk our lives, fight back until the threat doesn't seem imminent again and pull out just to start the process over again, there is no point to doing it.

Iraq has alot of trained troops that are simply running away from these guys. If they won't fight for their nation, how are we supposed to effectively fight for it.

If you want a sensible post, be humble.


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## tinydancer (Jun 18, 2014)

LoneLaugher said:


> TemplarKormac said:
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> > So um, just a question...
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You had no issue protecting civilians in Libya with air support along with 15 other countries.

Why on earth won't you help protect the citizens of Iraq?


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## tinydancer (Jun 18, 2014)

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> 1. It's not our planet to use like a kid's sandbox whenever we feel like it
> 2. We've caused enough damage by removing the strategic firewall Saddam and emboldening Iran and terrorist organizations
> ...



Mac with all due respect the Iraqis have been begging for help. Only air support. This terrorist army is so over the top they make AQ look like cookie selling Girl Scouts. 

To allow ISIS to seize Baghdad would open up such a can of whoop ass in the ME that you can just start dreaming of mushroom clouds now. 

*While Iraqs government is not requesting a surge in U.S. ground forces like the one President Bush ordered in 2007, Malikis government has been asking for the U.S. to conduct targeted air strikes and the intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance work to find those targets.

And there are plenty of new targets. On Tuesday, the al Qaeda offshoot known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Sham (ISIS) overran Iraqi military positions in Mosul, the countrys second-largest city. On Wednesday, reports from Iraq said the terrorist group was pushing toward Iraqs capital, Baghdad.

If President Obama agrees to launch drone strikes in Iraq, it would not be unprecedented for the region. The United States is playing a similar role in Iraqs neighbor, Yemen, with intense counterterrorism training and drone strikes. But Obama also has boasted that he ended the U.S. war in Iraq and thus far has been hesitant to reenter the conflict.*

Iraq Wants America Back to Fight al Qaeda With Air Strikes - The Daily Beast


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## tinydancer (Jun 18, 2014)

KNB said:


> Ibentoken said:
> 
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> > The left loves that quote of Ike.  It's been tortured and abused by them to death.
> ...



Having been a mega left winger in my youth I'm aware of the many books and articles written about what they call the "iron triangle".

Guerin with Fascism and Big Business is a classic. Eisenhower did not originate the idea of a military industrial complex.

His warning though must be taken seriously by all generations. And by both sides of the aisle.


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## georgephillip (Jun 18, 2014)

AntiParty said:


> Sensible...
> 
> The Plan -- according to U.S. General Wesley Clark (Ret.) - YouTube


For those who haven't listened to the clip, Clark claims within days of 911 the decision had already been made to invade Iraq. This was not contingency planning. This was a done deal and all that remained was "political."

Within weeks, Clark claims his same Pentagon source told him the plan had expanded to topple the governments of seven Muslim states in five years.

What if Americans gathered around their Turkey Day tables in 2001 had known what was already decided for Long War in the Middle East? 

What percentage would have lined up in support, and how many would've started talking about impeachment?


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## AntiParty (Jun 21, 2014)

georgephillip said:


> AntiParty said:
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TY and it started well before that. Bush was president when "Iran Freedom and Support Act" was instated. A bad name for what it actually was, just like the "patriot act". 

Names of bills seems to get the only public attention needed. Because frankly, the people hate politics. 

"Patriot Act" AWESOME! I'm a patriot! Sign me up (uses millions if not billions of $ to spy on everyone in the world)

"Anti-Outsourcing bill" Not good, we shouldn't stop that! Outsourcing helps international trade! (Never stated it would stop outsourcing, it was a bill that would reward Corporations to keep jobs in America)

And likewise....."Iran Freedom and Support Act" was given MILLIONS not to support Iran, but to set up a think tank on how to take out Iran....

Some theorize that it's a religion issue, they could be right. But I think it's a Petrol Dollar issue. The research is up to you. The only idiots are the ones reading titles and not bills. 

But title reading is a big part of politics today. LOTS of weak minds out there.


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## AntiParty (Jun 21, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> KNB said:
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The "iron triangle" huh lol. 

Most conspiracy theories relate to the triangle and the Federal Reserve. The people with actual brains notice that the Federal Reserve is ran by Corporations....not the Federal government.


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## georgephillip (Jun 21, 2014)

"The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (alternatively translated as Islamic State in Iraq and Syria or Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sh&#257;m) (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605;&#1610;&#1577; &#1601;&#1610; &#1575;&#1604;&#1593;&#1585;&#1575;&#1602; &#1608;&#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1575;&#1605;* al-Dawlah al-Isl&#257;m&#299;yah f&#299; al-&#699;Ir&#257;q wa-al-Sh&#257;m or Arabic: &#1583;&#1575;&#1593;&#1588;* D&#257;&#699;ish), abbreviated ISIL or ISIS, is an unrecognized state and active jihadist militant group in Iraq and Syria influenced by Wahhabism.[31] 

"In its unrecognized self-proclaimed status as an independent state, it claims the territory of Iraq and Syria, with implied future claims intended over more of the Levant, including Lebanon, *Israel,* Palestine, Jordan, Cyprus, and Southern Turkey."

*What changes in the Levant and the rest of the Middle East if Israeli air and ground forces engage ISIS outside Israel's borders?*

Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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