# Asian freedom alliance



## supermarine (Sep 15, 2004)

It seems that a new battleground is already taking shape in asia. Can the US monitor asia, as well as the Middle EAst. I think the Us is already outstretched. It's time to build new alliances. We need to get as many asian countries to our side as possible, before they are somhow perswayded to join china. The country i have my eye on the most is JApan.  YEs i know we are already good friends with them, but i think we should let them reinstate a new offensive military. So they can rival the communist powers. IT may seem that it would devide asia up even more, but let me tell you, sides are being chosen. countries are flocking to wichever side they will benifit the most on. WIth a powerful ally like japan only miles away from the commies, we will get others to our side. singapore, thailand,  and the phillipines. We need to isolate the chinese, scare them, before they get too strong. WE need to arm taiwan, so we dont have to take drastic measures ourselves if anything happens. we need to make our allies are prepaired, so we have more time to mobilize. THe sooner that Japan can build it's army to a great height, the less chance the commies would have to strike.


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## Zhukov (Sep 15, 2004)

Do we have nuclear missiles stationed on the Japanese home islands?  We should.

That and missile defence.


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## Annie (Sep 15, 2004)

Zhukov said:
			
		

> Do we have nuclear missiles stationed on the Japanese home islands?  We should.
> 
> That and missile defence.



I would assume the submarines?


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## Zhukov (Sep 15, 2004)

Well, I'd like the Japanese to have missiles of their own.  They couldn't hope to repel a Chinese invasion with conventional forces alone.


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## Annie (Sep 15, 2004)

Zhukov said:
			
		

> Well, I'd like the Japanese to have missiles of their own.  They couldn't hope to repel a Chinese invasion with conventional forces alone.



How long do you think it would take the Navy to help Japan if we saw the possible movements/preparations? Perhaps a better question for Nato or one of the other military guys?


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## NATO AIR (Sep 15, 2004)

7th Fleet is starting patrols this fall in the Sea Of Japan.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=23472&archive=true




> New job for 7th Fleet: Missile patrol in Sea of Japan
> 
> 
> By Nancy Montgomery, Stars and Stripes
> ...


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## NATO AIR (Sep 16, 2004)

as far as Vietnam... Vietnam has oil resources that China is going to require in the future.  The two have also fought a war in the past in which China was humuliated, something they do not forget.  Vietnam is forging close ties with China based on economic and social need, but at the same time, they will remain wary of the ultimate goal of China's intentions with them.


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## NATO AIR (Sep 16, 2004)

http://english.epochtimes.com/news/4-4-21/21029.html

nice examination of japan's struggles to change its force nature... keep in mind though their defenses are very good, its their offense that has been lacking in the past (but is changing now because of the possibility of having to preemptively strike north korea)

we participate in a great number of exercises with the japanese, and so do the marines, army and air force.  our militaries are much more serious and intent on better cooperation, cohesion and training in the post 9/11 world.


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## padisha emperor (Sep 16, 2004)

GO BACK TO COLD WAR FOLKS !!!!

You speak like China want to invade Japan or USA.
You have the same mind than people during the 60's, 70's, and the Cold War.

Cold War is over.

Don't you think that if China see that USA put missiles and nuke weapons in Japan, Taiwan.....they would feel in danger ? So, they would also do  an offensive strategy. And then, like during the Cold War, ESCALADE. escalade of the missiles, the WMD, the nuke missiles, the balistic missiles........

It seems that USA NEED to have a wide wide vital space around them. Even if it destruct the world peace. Like Germany during the 30's......


But that's not the subject.



You really do a come back to the Cold War........when I erad your messages, I have the feeling that China would soon attack the USA or Japan.......

Totally crazy.

good trip into the PARANOIA, tovaritchi !!!


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## supermarine (Sep 16, 2004)

Come back to reality you liberal piece of crap. China has been preparing invasions of Japan and taiwan even before we were talking about this. China started this. And also it was the same people like you who said in the 30s, The great war is over, why start another one? Then u have wwii on ur front doorstep, with the germans a step ahead. It would take 5 long years to stop hitler. BUt if we striked germany before hitler had a chance to invade poland, there would be a lot more jews in the world. You miserable tyrant appeaser, you make me sick.


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## Zhukov (Sep 16, 2004)

padisha emperor said:
			
		

> Cold War is over.



Why is it that every single liberal who has ever come on this board says exactly the same thing?


Last I checked the Chinese communists had directly or indirectly caused the deaths of anywhere between 40 and 60 million human beings.

Last I checked the Chinese communists were still in power, slave masters to over a billion people.

But who cares right?

They're not interested in Taiwan.

http://english.www.gov.tw/index.jsp?action=cna&cnaid=2480

Or Japan.

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,273006,00.html

They are a helpful and upstanding member of the international community.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/ac3a29e0-078c-11d9-9672-00000e2511c8.html

They are no threat to us.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/04/03/china.aircollision.02/?s=10


The Cold War isn't over.  The other side has only passed the baton.


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## MrMarbles (Sep 17, 2004)

I voted no. I think though it would depend on the situation. Like if this 'crisis' envoke the communist hardline.


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## padisha emperor (Sep 17, 2004)

If USA put nuke missiles and troops in Japan, in South Korea, and give weapons to Taiwan, hHina would feel insecure. So, China would make growing up her amry, her military potential.
And then : Escalade, like between USA and USSR before...

And other danger : if USA put some offensive military engines and troops in JApan, it could also awake N-Korea.. Maybe Pyongyang would feel also in danger, and would want to strike the first.


These are just suppositions. But they can become real


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## wade (Sep 17, 2004)

PE,

Get real.  China is the real threat and they are going to turn to conquest, the only question is when.  If they are patient and wait another 15 years, we will probably not be able to stop them from conquering all of Southern Asia.

With the way the US is managing its economy and technology, China will be at military parity within 10-12 years.

Wade.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 18, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> PE,
> 
> Get real.  China is the real threat and they are going to turn to conquest, the only question is when.  If they are patient and wait another 15 years, we will probably not be able to stop them from conquering all of Southern Asia.
> 
> ...



Do you want us to turn to fascist state controlled slave economies?  Like them?  I'm actually starting to feel like a leftist, thinking we should force them to treat their slaves like people with some kind of (gasp)  International minimum wage?


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 18, 2004)

I also know that they keep the chinese currency artificially suppressed to keep a stranglehold on the world's production.  How is this done?  ANy WTO geeks around?


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## NATO AIR (Sep 18, 2004)

didn't find that but i found a lot of blogs and website op-eds claiming this (and it makes me shudder)

Gold: The China Syndrome

Americans forewarned -- Of more concern, as goes the Chinese economy, so goes America's financial markets. By becoming the world's largest debtor nation, America has unknowingly allowed itself to be governed by the newest superpower, China. China has immense reserves now, second only to Japan. With $400 billion of foreign exchange reserves invested largely in United States Treasuries, the Chinese have financed a large part of the American deficits. Should China slowdown or alternatively decide to dump its bonds in favour of gold or euros, it would throw American financial markets into a tailspin, causing US interest rates to skyrocket - and that is the Achilles' heel of the American dream.

i found that this was the best explaination of all this so here is the link to the above
http://www.newsgateway.ca/gold_and_silver.htm


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## wade (Sep 18, 2004)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Do you want us to turn to fascist state controlled slave economies?  Like them?  I'm actually starting to feel like a leftist, thinking we should force them to treat their slaves like people with some kind of (gasp)  International minimum wage?



Do you not see that this country will, if left on its current course, evolve into nothing better than a fascist state with what is effectively a slave labor force?

I believe we (the West) should set standards for imported goods on the international market.  I think "no slave labor" is cleary one such standard.  I think "no child labor" and "no prisoner labor" is another.

I think that beyond that, some kind of distance tariff should be established for any good/service which is not exclusive to a region.  The farther it is shipped or located from the point of use, the higher the tariff.  Local production (and environmental consequences) should always be encouraged over imports based upon exploitation of living and labor costs.

As an example, look at the microchip industry.  Costs of production are really not an issue - if that was the only issue, we'd still make most of our own semiconductors.  But if you make semiconductors in the USA, disposal of waste products is a huge expense.  In Asia (or to a lesser degree Mexico) however, they just dump it into the river and let it flow into the ocean.  It is insane that we accept this and allow these practices to go on - it's killing the oceans and while it will effect them first, it is going to effect us too in the long run.

As for a world minimum wage - I'm not sure about that.  However, the "company store" policies of many regimes we deal with must be outlawed - as these amount to nothing more than slavery in sheeps clothing.  What happens is the workers are not paid enough to subsist, but are given credit to allow them to do so, but then are not allowed to leave their jobs until that debt is paid - which can never happen as they are not paid enough to subsist.  This is wrong and we should never support such practices.

Wade.


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## wade (Sep 18, 2004)

NATO AIR said:
			
		

> didn't find that but i found a lot of blogs and website op-eds claiming this (and it makes me shudder)
> 
> Gold: The China Syndrome
> 
> ...



I've made this point several times.  The Bush recovery is really not a recovery at all.  It is based upon cheap money which is funded by foriegn investment.  Americans are encouraged to borrow and spend spend spend - and not to really worry about the debt.  This fires up the economy and looks like growth on paper, but it is not really growth.  Growth requires investment in productivity, and that is not going on.

We are in real trouble.  The national debt is huge, and the consumer debt is astounding.  Inevitably, this must bring inflation.  Inflation will make our bonds very unattractive, and without bond sales, the cheap credit will dry up over night, consequently consumer spending will dry up, and the country will be thrown very quickly into a very harsh recession.  If this is really bad, people will start to default on their debts, then the price of housing will fall and banks will no longer feel secure about the collateral behind their outsanding home lones, etc., etc., ... and walla ---> depression.

The war in Iraq just exacerbates the situation, every dollar we spend on this war brings the day of reckoning that much closer, and reduces the probability that we can somehow work our way out of this without a world wide depression.

And the Chineese holding the strings is very scary indeed, since they are well positioned to take advantage of such a depression and may well force one if/when they think it will benifit them to do so.

Wade.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 18, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> Do you not see that this country will, if left on its current course, evolve into nothing better than a fascist state with what is effectively a slave labor force?


I think that's a leap, rhetoric boy.   Though china does concern me.


> I believe we (the West) should set standards for imported goods on the international market.  I think "no slave labor" is cleary one such standard.  I think "no child labor" and "no prisoner labor" is another.


Can we enforce these?  Should we just take their word for it?  THat's happening now.  But they lie about it.


> I think that beyond that, some kind of distance tariff should be established for any good/service which is not exclusive to a region.  The farther it is shipped or located from the point of use, the higher the tariff.  Local production (and environmental consequences) should always be encouraged over imports based upon exploitation of living and labor costs.


What you say is a bit extreme.  But there is a tiny bit of merit.  Should people profit from differentials in the cost of  living?


> As an example, look at the microchip industry.  Costs of production are really not an issue - if that was the only issue, we'd still make most of our own semiconductors.  But if you make semiconductors in the USA, disposal of waste products is a huge expense.  In Asia (or to a lesser degree Mexico) however, they just dump it into the river and let it flow into the ocean.  It is insane that we accept this and allow these practices to go on - it's killing the oceans and while it will effect them first, it is going to effect us too in the long run.


Once again.  Enforcement.   What do you want us to do?  Take over the world?


> As for a world minimum wage - I'm not sure about that.  However, the "company store" policies of many regimes we deal with must be outlawed - as these amount to nothing more than slavery in sheeps clothing.  What happens is the workers are not paid enough to subsist, but are given credit to allow them to do so, but then are not allowed to leave their jobs until that debt is paid - which can never happen as they are not paid enough to subsist.  This is wrong and we should never support such practices.
> 
> Wade.



So should we take over the world?


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## wade (Sep 18, 2004)

No need to take over the world.  We (the Western powers) just need to get together and establish policies and penalties.

Yes, they can lie, but they will also get caught.  If the penalties are sufficent they will decide it is not worth cheating.

You do not think the progression of the US working class into a sector that recieves subsistance wages is not the equivalent of a limited form of slavery?

Wade.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 18, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> No need to take over the world.  We (the Western powers) just need to get together and establish policies and penalties.


And when countries do not abide should there be a military enforcement?  The U.N. has shown it's failure to enforce.


> Yes, they can lie, but they will also get caught.  If the penalties are sufficent they will decide it is not worth cheating.


Again, what will happen when they get caught?  Nothing?  Like the French wanted with saddam?


> You do not think the progression of the US working class into a sector that recieves subsistance wages is not the equivalent of a limited form of slavery?
> 
> Wade.



Progression into a sector?  como?

Stop your negative rhetoric and give a solution.


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## wade (Sep 18, 2004)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> And when countries do not abide should there be a military enforcement?  The U.N. has shown it's failure to enforce.
> 
> ...
> 
> Again, what will happen when they get caught?  Nothing?  Like the French wanted with saddam?



Economic sanctions would be sufficient.  All that is needed is for a significant majority to agree on sactions and apply them to those who do not obey AND those who do not abide by the sanctions.  I.e. if France were to refuse to abide by sanctions on Indochina for use of child labor, those sanctions would then apply to France as well.



			
				rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Progression into a sector?  como?



the working class prgressing into a sector of the enconomy.... sorry was trying to keep it brief... I have very limited time to spend on this board today.



			
				rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> Stop your negative rhetoric and give a solution.



I did give a solution --- where is your solution?

I find it interesting you ignore the most sigificant part of my post...


> We are in real trouble. The national debt is huge, and the consumer debt is astounding. Inevitably, this must bring inflation. Inflation will make our bonds very unattractive, and without bond sales, the cheap credit will dry up over night, consequently consumer spending will dry up, and the country will be thrown very quickly into a very harsh recession. If this is really bad, people will start to default on their debts, then the price of housing will fall and banks will no longer feel secure about the collateral behind their outsanding home lones, etc., etc., ... and walla ---> depression.



Wade.


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## Annie (Sep 18, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> Economic sanctions would be sufficient.  All that is needed is for a significant majority to agree on sactions and apply them to those who do not obey AND those who do not abide by the sanctions.  I.e. if France were to refuse to abide by sanctions on Indochina for use of child labor, those sanctions would then apply to France as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cool Wade. And tell us, how are you going to get the UN members to put in place those sanctions? And if they do, but Iran continues, then what?


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 18, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> Economic sanctions would be sufficient.  All that is needed is for a significant majority to agree on sactions and apply them to those who do not obey AND those who do not abide by the sanctions.  I.e. if France were to refuse to abide by sanctions on Indochina for use of child labor, those sanctions would then apply to France as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's sad you still have faith in the toothless morally bankrupt institution known as the U.N.  Haven't you noticed it's abject failure?  

This economy is not as bad as you make out.  Quit being a hand wringer.

My solution:  http://www.newamericancentury.org/aboutpnac.htm


Dig it, yo!


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## wade (Sep 18, 2004)

Kathianne said:
			
		

> Cool Wade. And tell us, how are you going to get the UN members to put in place those sanctions? And if they do, but Iran continues, then what?



Who said anything about the UN?  It would require a new body that does not include a big 5 with veto power and which is empowered to dictate certain policies to the World Bank.

And who cares if Iran chooses to continue bying from (for example) indochina.  That simply puts Iran on the list of countries which must endure the sanctions - anything from an increased tariff, fines enforced through the world bank, or an embargo.

Wade.


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## wade (Sep 18, 2004)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> It's sad you still have faith in the toothless morally bankrupt institution known as the U.N.  Haven't you noticed it's abject failure?
> 
> This economy is not as bad as you make out.  Quit being a hand wringer.
> 
> ...



Umm... as I said to Kathianne, who said anything about the UN?  (see my reply to her).

The Economy is as bad as I make it out to be.  It is just hidden by cheap money - but that won't last.  It really does not matter who wins this next election - the US economy is headed for the shitter.

I'll read over that link later when I have time.  But... that is not "your solution", that is someone elses.  Again I point to the fact that you have no real positions of your own - all you do is choose which neocon to follow.

Wade.


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## Zhukov (Sep 19, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> "no prisoner labor" is another.



What's wrong with prisoner labor?


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## Annie (Sep 19, 2004)

Zhukov said:
			
		

> What's wrong with prisoner labor?


I was thinking the same thing, but was too tired to deal with Wade at the time.


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## wade (Sep 19, 2004)

Zhukov said:
			
		

> What's wrong with prisoner labor?



It is okay, to a degree, for products to be sold within your own nation (like licence plates).  But it is unacceptable for exported goods.  It is a form of slave labor and thus not not fair from a competitive viewpoint.  And it is immoral to import such goods encouraging a regime to imprison people for profit.

Kathianne - I expect such ridiculous comments from Zhukov, he's a fascist after all.  But you??? I thought you had at least a little common sense and moral fiber.

Wade.


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## Annie (Sep 19, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> It is okay, to a degree, for products to be sold within your own nation (like licence plates).  But it is unacceptable for exported goods.  It is a form of slave labor and thus not not fair from a competitive viewpoint.  And it is immoral to import such goods encouraging a regime to imprison people for profit.
> 
> Kathianne - I expect such ridiculous comments from Zhukov, he's a fascist after all.  But you??? I thought you had at least a little common sense and moral fiber.
> 
> Wade.



I was speaking of within our own country. I believe you misunderstand Zhukov, but that's your problem.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 19, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> Umm... as I said to Kathianne, who said anything about the UN?  (see my reply to her).
> 
> The Economy is as bad as I make it out to be.  It is just hidden by cheap money - but that won't last.  It really does not matter who wins this next election - the US economy is headed for the shitter.
> 
> ...



No.  The economy is simply not that bad.  Quit fear mongering.  Your solution seems to be whining and diplomatic solutions, proven failures.  

You want to issue proclamations about things that just should happen.  How do you plan on enforcing them?

I still believe you are fundamentally antiamerican.  Some socialist professor of yours probably told you it was cool and you never looked back.  THink for yourself, poseur.


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## wade (Sep 19, 2004)

I did explain how they'd be enforced.  What's your problem?

And the economy is every bit as bad as I've said.  You just don't seem to understand the implications of the national debt or the huge credit loading that has been going on for quite some time now.  Look at the jobs being created - most are in the public sector, and in the private sector they are mostly merchandising (sales clerk) positions - these do not really indicate any real growth in the economy.  10 years from now everyone will be an insurance salesman (a product requiring no production) trying to sell insurance to each other!

Next year, when interest rates have risen to 10%+ and inflation has risen to 7%+, you will see that I am right.  And that will only be the beginning.

Wade.


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## Annie (Sep 19, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> I did explain how they'd be enforced.  What's your problem?
> 
> And the economy is every bit as bad as I've said.  You just don't seem to understand the implications of the national debt or the huge credit loading that has been going on for quite some time now.  Look at the jobs being created - most are in the public sector, and in the private sector they are mostly merchandising (sales clerk) positions - these do not really indicate any real growth in the economy.  10 years from now everyone will be an insurance salesman (a product requiring no production) trying to sell insurance to each other!
> 
> ...



What are you basing this on? Assuming you are correct, which is a major assumption, my first house had a rate of 17.9%. The top rates on credit were established during this period, which was followed by the Clinton years, of cheap credit! The US could withstand this, if it were to come to pass, which is not likely.


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## Zhukov (Sep 19, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> It is okay....for products to be sold within your own nation.  But it is unacceptable for exported goods.



Why?



> And it is immoral to import such goods encouraging a regime to imprison people for profit.



No.  It would be immoral to encourage a regime to unjustly imprison people for profits sake.  Simply importing said goods could not be considered immoral in and of itself.

If we imported the products of prison labor from the UK I seriously doubt they would, upon examination of the profit margin, decide to imprison more people.

Nation's like China are of course another matter.


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## Zhukov (Sep 19, 2004)

me said:
			
		

> What's wrong with prisoner labor?





			
				wade said:
			
		

> I'd expect such _ridiculous comments_ from Zhukov



and yet



			
				wade said:
			
		

> It is okay, to a degree



Does that make you ridiculous, to a degree?


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## Annie (Sep 19, 2004)

Zhukov said:
			
		

> and yet
> 
> 
> 
> Does that make you ridiculous, to a degree?



to a degree. But what degree? LOL


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 19, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> I did explain how they'd be enforced.  What's your problem?



What was that method again?  Scout's honor?


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## supermarine (Sep 19, 2004)

We have gone off topic, we went from a strategy to stop china, to how bad our own economy is, to how facist zhukov is(im not sayin ur a facist). lets assume for arguments sake that chinas economy is too strong, or somthing like that, we cant stop them economically. we have to intimidate them through a military alliance. Lets press the issue!


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## wade (Sep 19, 2004)

zhukov

No, it just shows how you are willing to cut bits out of a post and misrepresent what they are saying.  You are intentionally putting what I posted out of context.  I had simply accepted your position, as a believer in authoritarian rule, a reasonable if dispicable point of view.

You now have zero credibilty and I will no longer be repling to your posts.


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## wade (Sep 19, 2004)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> What was that method again?  Scout's honor?



You can't read?  Hmmm....

I said what we need to do is impliment sanctions against offenders.  But we need to take it a step further than has been done in the past.  We need to not only sanction offenders but also those who do not uphold the sanctions.  It is the latter which gives the whole thing teeth - but we have to accept that it will entail a little pain on our parts to make it work.

Wade.


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## wade (Sep 19, 2004)

supermarine said:
			
		

> We have gone off topic, we went from a strategy to stop china, to how bad our own economy is, to how facist zhukov is(im not sayin ur a facist). lets assume for arguments sake that chinas economy is too strong, or somthing like that, we cant stop them economically. we have to intimidate them through a military alliance. Lets press the issue!



Zhukov is a self-proclaimed fascist.  I didn't call him that, he called himself that in another thread.

Wade.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 19, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> You can't read?  Hmmm....
> 
> I said what we need to do is impliment sanctions against offenders.  But we need to take it a step further than has been done in the past.  We need to not only sanction offenders but also those who do not uphold the sanctions.  It is the latter which gives the whole thing teeth - but we have to accept that it will entail a little pain on our parts to make it work.
> 
> Wade.



So.  Enforced by the U.N?  Make it plain, Socrates.


Layers of useless sanctions are still useless, oh sage one.


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## wade (Sep 20, 2004)

rtwngAvngr said:
			
		

> So.  Enforced by the U.N?  Make it plain, Socrates.
> 
> Layers of useless sanctions are still useless, oh sage one.



No, all it takes is getting the right few nations in line.  The UN could only be utilized if it is totally revamped - which may happen to some degree given the oil-for-food scandal, but probably not enough.

What has to happen is the USA, Japan, Britian, and a few other nations need to agree on this policy.  They need to agree to sanction anyone who does not abide by it, and they need to agree to sanction anyone who does not abide by the sanctions.  A "you're either with us or against us" policy.

Exactly how it would be structured -- that is too complex an issue for a message board like this.  It is the principal I'm getting at here.  Set some world labor and environmental standards and require nations doing business with the West to abide by them - or don't do buisness with those countries.

What is your solution?  Just ignore the fact that children are working 18 hours a day 7 days a week for next to nothing so you can wear cheap Nike's and the very few can get very rich?  Just ignore the negative impact on our economy, the environment, and human rights in general?

Wade.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 20, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> No, all it takes is getting the right few nations in line.


Like a coalition of the willing?


> The UN could only be utilized if it is totally revamped - which may happen to some degree given the oil-for-food scandal, but probably not enough.


Right.  I'll stick with NOT.


> What has to happen is the USA, Japan, Britian, and a few other nations need to agree on this policy.


The "do the right thing" policy?  Spike Lee is gonna sue your ass.


> They need to agree to sanction anyone who does not abide by it, and they need to agree to sanction anyone who does not abide by the sanctions.


Enforced  militarily?  What about "world outrage"?


> A "you're either with us or against us" policy.


We got ourselves another neocon, maw.


> Exactly how it would be structured -- that is too complex an issue for a message board like this.  It is the principal I'm getting at here.


Henceforth to  be known as the Kum Bah Yah principle?


> Set some world labor and environmental standards and require nations doing business with the West to abide by them - or don't do buisness with those countries.


Yep, that's a sanction.


> What is your solution?  Just ignore the fact that children are working 18 hours a day 7 days a week for next to nothing so you can wear cheap Nike's and the very few can get very rich?  Just ignore the negative impact on our economy, the environment, and human rights in general?
> 
> Wade.



You forgot about my torturing bunnies and kidnapping Santa proposal.


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## Zhukov (Sep 20, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> I will no longer be repling to your posts.



Sounds good.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 21, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> You can't read?  Hmmm....
> 
> I said what we need to do is impliment sanctions against offenders.  But we need to take it a step further than has been done in the past.  We need to not only sanction offenders but also those who do not uphold the sanctions.  It is the latter which gives the whole thing teeth - but we have to accept that it will entail a little pain on our parts to make it work.
> 
> Wade.



You antiamericans love toothless sanctions.  Layers of useless sanctions.  It's like useless sanction lasagna.


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## wade (Sep 22, 2004)

You really are an idiot aren't you RWA?  When you cannot come up with a counter argument - just insult the other party by calling them "anti-american".

Am I'm gonna have to write you off too.

Wade.


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## rtwngAvngr (Sep 22, 2004)

wade said:
			
		

> You really are an idiot aren't you RWA?  When you cannot come up with a counter argument - just insult the other party by calling them "anti-american".
> 
> Am I'm gonna have to write you off too.
> 
> Wade.



You are an antiamerican.  But my post had more substance than that.  You seem to favor a toothless sanction lasagna (layers of unenforced sanctions).  That's the meat of my criticism.  Can you deal with it?


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