# Sharia tourism growing stronger with  Muslim travelers



## Sunni Man

Indonesias Tourism and Creative Economy Ministry is set to leverage the countrys potential of sharia tourism this year in a bid to capture the expanding number of global Muslim travelers, especially tourists from the Middle East.

Sharia tourism is leisure and travel that complies with Islamic law, such as the provision of cuisine and beverages that contain no pork or alcohol, and the separation of men and women at tourist events and sites.

The ministrys director for meetings, incentives, conventions and exhibitions (MICE), Rizky Handayani, said recently that the government, together with travel agencies, hotels and restaurants, was planning to promote and create tour packages aimed at Muslim travelers.

Sharia tourism is very promising because spending by Muslim tourists is growing faster than the global rate, and is forecast to reach US$192 billion globally per year by 2020, said Rizky.

As a rich and beautiful Muslim-majority nation, we have to be able to tap into this market, Rizky said, quoting a new study conducted in 47 countries by Singapore-based halal travel specialist Crescentrating along with DinarStandard, a US-based firm that tracks the Muslim lifestyle market.

According to the study, Muslim tourists globally represented a major niche market worth $126.1 billion throughout 2011. The demand is expected to grow by 4.8 percent annually through 2020, compared to the global average of 3.8 percent.

Singapore, Malaysia, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Turkey, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland and Argentina are countries that already offer sharia tourism.

Sharia tourism is not complicated. Basically, we just need to include what Muslim tourists need when traveling, such as hotels that have a kiblat sign [direction to Mecca], a prayer mat, halal food, a toilet with washing facilities and a tour that includes daily prayers, said Rizky, adding that sharia tourism was not a religious or pilgrimage journey.

Halal means permitted or lawful according to Islamic law, which forbids consuming the flesh of swine or alcoholic drinks.

"Sharia tourism" growing stronger | MuslimVillage.com | MuslimVillage.com


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## High_Gravity

I have to admit I never saw this coming.


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## Sunni Man

Smart travel industry marketers will make a fortune catering to the growing muslim tourist industry.


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## TakeAStepBack

> a toilet with washing facilities



As opposed to a hole in the ground?


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## Sunni Man

Washing facilities for ablution (ritual water cleaning) before Islamic prayer.


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## TakeAStepBack

Not in an actual toilet though, presumably....


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## High_Gravity

I don't get it, why travel to another country to live the same exact way you do at home?


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## Sunni Man

They want to travel to other countries and see the sights; but want the amenities they are familiar with.

American tourists are the same way when visiting foreign countries.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> They want to travel to other countries and see the sights; but want the amenities they are familiar with.
> 
> American tourists are the same way when visiting foreign countries.



How so?


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## Sunni Man

When americans travel to country (fill in the name)

We generally stay a hotels that cater to people from the west.

Set down toilets, hot water, bar with alcohol, american/european style food, speak english, etc.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> When americans travel to country (fill in the name)
> 
> We generally stay a hotels that cater to people from the west.
> 
> Set down toilets, hot water, bar with alcohol, american/european style food, speak english, etc.



Hmm good point, but those anemities aren't there for just us, the Brits, Irish, Aussies etc etc also use them, but I get your point.


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## Ravi

Sounds gay.


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## Sunni Man

Muslim tourists want to stay in hotels that reflect their culture and values.

And businesses that recognize this fact will make a lot of money accommodating them.


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## Ravi

Sunni Man said:


> Muslim tourists want to stay in hotels that reflect their culture and values.
> 
> And businesses that recognize this fact will make a lot of money accommodating them.



Just like gays!


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## waltky

Sounds like a good way...

... fer terrorists to sneak in...

... an' blow sumpin' up.


----------



## Sunshine

Sunni Man said:


> They want to travel to other countries and see the sights; but want the amenities they are familiar with.
> 
> American tourists are the same way when visiting foreign countries.



Americans might _WANT _those things but we don't _GET_ those things.  If you go to Egypt you have to carry your own toilet paper.  They didn't even have toilet paper in the ultra moder Dar Al Fouad Hospital in Giza.  I carried butt loads of little Kleenex packets in Egypt and butt loads of those little wet naps when I went to China.  We were told to do so, but most in our group overlooked the direction and 'borrowed' from me the entire trip.  We just can't fathom that people in other countries don't live the same way we do.  But they don't.  I don't see why those things should be provided any more than toilet paper should.  They can carry their own prayer matts, washing equipment, and a compass.


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## Saigon

This is also good news, given Indonesia's moderate interpretation of Islam. 

It must be good for people from Saudi Arabia visiting an Islamic country where so many women do not veil, where women drive & work & study freely, and where churches and Buddhist temples abound.


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## gallantwarrior

Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
Easy-peasy...


----------



## Sunshine

gallantwarrior said:


> Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
> Easy-peasy...



Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.  

But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!


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## Saigon

Sunshine said:


> You don't like getting raped and fisted for an hour like Laura Logan was, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!



How many Islamic theocracies have you been to, and how many times were you raped?

Open war zones aside, in my experience Islamic countries are safer for tourists than most countries in South America.


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## Sunshine

Saigon said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't like getting raped and fisted for an hour like Laura Logan was, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many Islamic theocracies have you been to, and how many times were you raped?
> 
> Open war zones aside, in my experience Islamic countries are safer for tourists than most countries in South America.
Click to expand...


I have been to Egypt and we had an armed escort.  Name some country in South America that is unsafe.


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## Sunni Man

Kidnapping in Brazil is big business.

Even average citizens are abducted for money.

And if the ransom isn't paid by the victims relatives.

Their chances for survival is slim.


----------



## Saigon

Sunshine - 



> I have been to Egypt and we had an armed escort. Name some country in South America that is unsafe.



Wonderful, wonderful posting....I really laughed out loud at that one!!

Up to eleven million tourists visit Egypt every year - few of them bother with any more protection than sunscreen and a simple padlock for their bag. Obviously the past couple of years have not been the best time to visit, and it's not an easy country for inexperienced independent travellers, but it is generally very safe, and there are very few robberies. 

I have never met anyone who has been robbed in Egypt personally, and I've been there a couple of times. 

As for South America - most of the continent is quite dangerous in terms of robbery. Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, Peru...even Argentina have a fairly poor record on crime.


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## Sunni Man

ATM abductions, where the victim is forced to withdraw money from his or her account, are common in many urban areas of Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, and Brazil.

Express kidnapping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Meathead

Maybe they can have public beheadings, wahabi beatings of  women showing too much bare arm and the occasional market bomb to make Sharia tourists feel more welcome.


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## Saigon

Sunni Man said:


> ATM abductions, where the victim is forced to withdraw money from his or her account, are common in many urban areas of Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, and Brazil.
> 
> Express kidnapping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



True - I'd also add Nicaragua to that, as one of my friends was (ATM) abducted there last year. 

I love travelling in South America myself, and don't think people need avoid it, but in my experience South America is riskier than the Middle East in terms of theft.


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## Sunshine

Saigon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> ATM abductions, where the victim is forced to withdraw money from his or her account, are common in many urban areas of Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, and Brazil.
> 
> Express kidnapping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True - I'd also add Nicaragua to that, as one of my friends was (ATM) abducted there last year.
> 
> I love travelling in South America myself, and don't think people need avoid it, but in my experience South America is riskier than the Middle East in terms of theft.
Click to expand...


Nicaragua is not in South America.  Don't they teach geography in schools anymore?

Central America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sunni Man

Most ATM's in America have daily limit on the amount of money you can access.

But a Brazilian friend of mine told me that in his country there is no daily draw limit at ATM's

Because ATM kidnapping is so common and the prices for ransom gotten so high.

You must be able to quickly meet the criminal demands or they will kill the victim.


----------



## Saigon

Sunshine - 

You're not very good at this, are you?

Sunni mentioned Mexico, which is also in Central America and not South America - but is definitely notaable for it's crime directed at American tourists. Thus I think mentioning Nicaragua is to make a fairly useful point.


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## Saigon

Sunni Man said:


> You must be able to quickly meet the criminal demands or they will kill the victim.



Uusually not killed - just roughed up a little, and the thieves take what they can get. 

But these kind of robberies really shake a person up. It's terrifying, and most people find it difficult to travel with much confidence for a while after something like that has happened. 

I've only ever been robbed twice - once in Mexico, once in Colombia. I've never lost a thing in Africa, Asia or the Middle East.


----------



## Sunshine

Saigon said:


> Sunshine -
> 
> You're not very good at this, are you?
> 
> Sunni mentioned Mexico, which is also in Central America and not South America - but is definitely notaable for it's crime directed at American tourists. Thus I think mentioning Nicaragua is to make a fairly useful point.



Actually Mexico is in NORTH America.

North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Saigon

Sunshine - 

So what?


----------



## Sunshine

Saigon said:


> Sunshine -
> 
> So what?



If you don't know where the fucking country IS, how  can you know anything about it at all!  

Obviously you don't.


----------



## Saigon

Sunshine - 

Well, I've been to all of the countries we've mentioned on this thread so far, so have a fair idea about how risky they are. 

Have you?


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> They want to travel to other countries and see the sights; but want the amenities they are familiar with.
> 
> American tourists are the same way when visiting foreign countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...


Western toilets, western beds, television, radio, food..you name it.

People don't go on cruises or stay at hotel chains to experience the culture.


----------



## Sunshine

Saigon said:


> Sunshine -
> 
> Well, I've been to all of the countries we've mentioned on this thread so far, so have a fair idea about how risky they are.
> 
> Have you?



And you didn't even know where you were.  That speaks volumes.


----------



## High_Gravity

I guess I can understand wanting to stay in a familiar environment, but if my usual routine in the States is to drink malt liquor, go to strip clubs, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball, why should I go to Norway and drink malt liquor, go to strip club, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball? I thought people traveled to see different things and for new experiences?


----------



## Sunshine

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> They want to travel to other countries and see the sights; but want the amenities they are familiar with.
> 
> American tourists are the same way when visiting foreign countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Western toilets, western beds, television, radio, food..you name it.
> 
> People don't go on cruises or stay at hotel chains to experience the culture.
Click to expand...


Right.  Hotels have toilet paper.  Hospitals did not, I learned.  Eeewwww~


----------



## Sallow

Sunshine said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
> Easy-peasy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
Click to expand...


Where in China were you?

I've been to Shanghai, Hong Kong and Taipei..

Very modern and very western.

If you go outside the cities..it does get very "native".

But the same thing happens in some parts of the US.


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> I guess I can understand wanting to stay in a familiar environment, but if my usual routine in the States is to drink malt liquor, go to strip clubs, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball, why should I go to Norway and drink malt liquor, go to strip club, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball? I thought people traveled to see different things and for new experiences?



Because the blondes in Norway..are real blondes.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
> Easy-peasy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where in China were you?
> 
> I've been to Shanghai, Hong Kong and Taipei..
> 
> Very modern and very western.
> 
> If you go outside the cities..it does get very "native".
> 
> But the same thing happens in some parts of the US.
Click to expand...


Good point, in California there are patches of the state that resemble West Virginia. Anyone who doesn't believe me should visit Lompoc or any small town in Central California, its a no mans land.


----------



## Saigon

Sunshine said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine -
> 
> Well, I've been to all of the countries we've mentioned on this thread so far, so have a fair idea about how risky they are.
> 
> Have you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you didn't even know where you were.  That speaks volumes.
Click to expand...


Wonderful posting again, Sunshine!! 

Perhaps when you get around to visiting countries like Nicaragua, Peru and Bolivia yourself, you'll have something useful to say about both where they are - and how safe they are.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I can understand wanting to stay in a familiar environment, but if my usual routine in the States is to drink malt liquor, go to strip clubs, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball, why should I go to Norway and drink malt liquor, go to strip club, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball? I thought people traveled to see different things and for new experiences?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the blondes in Norway..are real blondes.
Click to expand...


Oh I bet, Scandinavian women are very beautiful.


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where in China were you?
> 
> I've been to Shanghai, Hong Kong and Taipei..
> 
> Very modern and very western.
> 
> If you go outside the cities..it does get very "native".
> 
> But the same thing happens in some parts of the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good point, in California there are patches of the state that resemble West Virginia. Anyone who doesn't believe me should visit Lompoc or any small town in Central California, its a no mans land.
Click to expand...


Yup.


----------



## Sallow

Saigon said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine -
> 
> Well, I've been to all of the countries we've mentioned on this thread so far, so have a fair idea about how risky they are.
> 
> Have you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you didn't even know where you were.  That speaks volumes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wonderful posting again, Sunshine!!
> 
> Perhaps when you get around to visiting countries like Nicaragua, Peru and Bolivia yourself, you'll have something useful to say about both where they are - and how safe they are.
Click to expand...


I've been to Guatemala. We stayed at some pretty neat but "native" hotels. The only big differences I found was 1. you can't drink the water 2. you can't flush the toilet paper down the toilet 3. no t.v.


----------



## Saigon

Sallow said:


> I've been to Guatemala. We stayed at some pretty neat but "native" hotels. The only big differences I found was 1. you can't drink the water 2. you can't flush the toilet paper down the toilet 3. no t.v.



Guatemala can be seriously dodgy, depending on what is happening politically. During the Rios Montte years people were disappearing left, right and centre. Not tourists generally, but students, political acitivists and so forth. 

Guatemala City is not a place to wnader around at night, although I think most other towns are safe enough. 

I know what you mean with those "native" hotels - I had a few that had no glass in the windows, no electricity and no plumbing!!


----------



## there4eyeM

Can a halal-sharia Disney park be far off?


----------



## Sunshine

Sallow said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
> Easy-peasy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where in China were you?
> 
> I've been to Shanghai, Hong Kong and Taipei..
> 
> Very modern and very western.
> 
> If you go outside the cities..it does get very "native".
> 
> But the same thing happens in some parts of the US.
Click to expand...


Hong Kong and Beijing.  We went to a rural clinic in a farming community outside Beijing, but without getting the stuff about it out, I can't recall the name of it.  It was cool, though.  They shot off the kind of fireworks that are illegal in this country directly over our heads.  I dined in the home of a doctor.  His apartment was just like those in our projects except it didn't have a bathroom.  Neither did the clinic.  And it looked like the 1930s in America.  But Beijing University Hospital is ultra modern, western medicine and all.  Traditional Medicine hospital was cool.  Military Hospital looked like a VA in America, and Women's and Childrens' Hospital was very quaint.  The laundry was hanging on the line.  Quite a disparity in levels of care there.  Sights were cool.


----------



## Sunshine

Saigon said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine -
> 
> Well, I've been to all of the countries we've mentioned on this thread so far, so have a fair idea about how risky they are.
> 
> Have you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you didn't even know where you were.  That speaks volumes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wonderful posting again, Sunshine!!
> 
> Perhaps when you get around to visiting countries like Nicaragua, Peru and Bolivia yourself, you'll have something useful to say about both where they are - and how safe they are.
Click to expand...


Until then, nothing you say is of any value.  If you didn't know you were in Central America, then you likely didn't even know what country you were in.  You must have been traveling with TM in a shared cannabis stupor!


----------



## Sunshine

there4eyeM said:


> Can a halal-sharia Disney park be far off?



What catchy name would you give the beheading attraction?


----------



## Sallow

Saigon said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Guatemala. We stayed at some pretty neat but "native" hotels. The only big differences I found was 1. you can't drink the water 2. you can't flush the toilet paper down the toilet 3. no t.v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guatemala can be seriously dodgy, depending on what is happening politically. During the Rios Montte years people were disappearing left, right and centre. Not tourists generally, but students, political acitivists and so forth.
> 
> Guatemala City is not a place to wnader around at night, although I think most other towns are safe enough.
> 
> I know what you mean with those "native" hotels - I had a few that had no glass in the windows, no electricity and no plumbing!!
Click to expand...


Had a great time.

Even ran into "Stormin Norman" from "The Kingsman".

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cec1JInytH0]Louie Louie - The Kingsmen - YouTube[/ame]

He's the guy playin' the guitar.


----------



## there4eyeM

Sunshine said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can a halal-sharia Disney park be far off?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What catchy name would you give the beheading attraction?
Click to expand...


Alice in Horrorland with the Red Queen?


----------



## Sallow

Sunshine said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where in China were you?
> 
> I've been to Shanghai, Hong Kong and Taipei..
> 
> Very modern and very western.
> 
> If you go outside the cities..it does get very "native".
> 
> But the same thing happens in some parts of the US.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hong Kong and Beijing.  We went to a rural clinic in a farming community outside Beijing, but without getting the stuff about it out, I can't recall the name of it.  It was cool, though.  They shot off the kind of fireworks that are illegal in this country directly over our heads.  I dined in the home of a doctor.  His apartment was just like those in our projects except it didn't have a bathroom.  Neither did the clinic.  And it looked like the 1930s in America.  But Beijing University Hospital is ultra modern, western medicine and all.  Traditional Medicine hospital was cool.  Military Hospital looked like a VA in America, and Women's and Childrens' Hospital was very quaint.  The laundry was hanging on the line.  Quite a disparity in levels of care there.  Sights were cool.
Click to expand...


Heh..sounds like you were doing the "missionary" thing.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you didn't even know where you were.  That speaks volumes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonderful posting again, Sunshine!!
> 
> Perhaps when you get around to visiting countries like Nicaragua, Peru and Bolivia yourself, you'll have something useful to say about both where they are - and how safe they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been to Guatemala. We stayed at some pretty neat but "native" hotels. The only big differences I found was 1. you can't drink the water 2. you can't flush the toilet paper down the toilet 3. no t.v.
Click to expand...


What are you supposed to do with the toilet paper?


----------



## Sallow

High_Gravity said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wonderful posting again, Sunshine!!
> 
> Perhaps when you get around to visiting countries like Nicaragua, Peru and Bolivia yourself, you'll have something useful to say about both where they are - and how safe they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Guatemala. We stayed at some pretty neat but "native" hotels. The only big differences I found was 1. you can't drink the water 2. you can't flush the toilet paper down the toilet 3. no t.v.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are you supposed to do with the toilet paper?
Click to expand...


Waste basket.

You wrap it up first.


----------



## Saigon

I hate those toilets where you can't flush the paper. Particularly the basket sitting next to it. 

It invariably seems that the guy who went in before me had some serious diarrhea.


----------



## Sallow

Saigon said:


> I hate those toilets where you can't flush the paper. Particularly the basket sitting next to it.
> 
> It invariably seems that the guy who went in before me had some serious diarrhea.


----------



## Sunshine

Sallow said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where in China were you?
> 
> I've been to Shanghai, Hong Kong and Taipei..
> 
> Very modern and very western.
> 
> If you go outside the cities..it does get very "native".
> 
> But the same thing happens in some parts of the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong and Beijing.  We went to a rural clinic in a farming community outside Beijing, but without getting the stuff about it out, I can't recall the name of it.  It was cool, though.  They shot off the kind of fireworks that are illegal in this country directly over our heads.  I dined in the home of a doctor.  His apartment was just like those in our projects except it didn't have a bathroom.  Neither did the clinic.  And it looked like the 1930s in America.  But Beijing University Hospital is ultra modern, western medicine and all.  Traditional Medicine hospital was cool.  Military Hospital looked like a VA in America, and Women's and Childrens' Hospital was very quaint.  The laundry was hanging on the line.  Quite a disparity in levels of care there.  Sights were cool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Heh..sounds like you were doing the "missionary" thing.
Click to expand...


Nursing conference.  Egypt too, was a nursing conference.  I got to be a presenter at the one in Beijing.  The nursing shortage in Egypt is devastating.  As soon as they graduate from school, their nurses go to Saudi where they can make some money.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sallow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to Guatemala. We stayed at some pretty neat but "native" hotels. The only big differences I found was 1. you can't drink the water 2. you can't flush the toilet paper down the toilet 3. no t.v.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are you supposed to do with the toilet paper?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Waste basket.
> 
> You wrap it up first.
Click to expand...


Disgusting.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Sunshine said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
> Easy-peasy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
Click to expand...


Hell, we already send plenty of our money over to those rathole countries, or should I say, our government confiscates plenty of our money to send to them.  Why anyone in their right mind would want to visit places like that and spend any cash...
What happened to Laura Logan should have raised some kind of objection from our so-called leaders, what has been done to many of our citizens should have.  But what do you expect when our so-called leaders would rather sit and watch (or listen to) embassy staff being murdered in the streets than order some action that might have saved their lives.


----------



## Saigon

Gallant - 

How much aid does the US give China?


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## gallantwarrior

High_Gravity said:


> I guess I can understand wanting to stay in a familiar environment, but if my usual routine in the States is to drink malt liquor, go to strip clubs, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball, why should I go to Norway and drink malt liquor, go to strip club, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball? I thought people traveled to see different things and for new experiences?



They have NBA basketball in Norway?
I know what you're saying.  When I traveled, I enjoyed trying out the local food.  Lots of times, though, what most people go to see has been packaged and marketed to sell to tourists.  I hate that touristy mess.  I've settled now and travel little, for many reasons.  I don't miss seeing the wonders of the world.
It's almost funny, in a sad way, because the do the same thing to Alaska.  It's been packaged and marketed and the tourists come in droves to "experience the wilderness"...from the comfort of swanky train cars, motor coaches, special sight-seeing boats, etc.  For those of us who live here, they have ruined a lot of truly wonderful things and cost us a bundle, just to accommodate our "visitors".  I wonder whether the inhabitants of other tourist destinations don't view the looky-loo invaders with the same disdain that Alaskans do?


----------



## gallantwarrior

Saigon said:


> Gallant -
> 
> How much aid does the US give China?



I'm not sure how much official aid we send to China, but we sure as hell send a lot of our manufacturing infrastructure there.  I work in the transportation industry, and I will tell you unequivocally, when the airplanes come here, they are packed gunwale to gunwale with goods.  When they go back....yeah, not so much.  Lots of times, the planes go back to China with just dunnage.  How much more do we need to send them?


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## Unkotare

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS22663.pdf


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## High_Gravity

gallantwarrior said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I can understand wanting to stay in a familiar environment, but if my usual routine in the States is to drink malt liquor, go to strip clubs, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball, why should I go to Norway and drink malt liquor, go to strip club, eat hot wings and watch NBA Basketball? I thought people traveled to see different things and for new experiences?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have NBA basketball in Norway?
> I know what you're saying.  When I traveled, I enjoyed trying out the local food.  Lots of times, though, what most people go to see has been packaged and marketed to sell to tourists.  I hate that touristy mess.  I've settled now and travel little, for many reasons.  I don't miss seeing the wonders of the world.
> It's almost funny, in a sad way, because the do the same thing to Alaska.  It's been packaged and marketed and the tourists come in droves to "experience the wilderness"...from the comfort of swanky train cars, motor coaches, special sight-seeing boats, etc.  For those of us who live here, they have ruined a lot of truly wonderful things and cost us a bundle, just to accommodate our "visitors".  I wonder whether the inhabitants of other tourist destinations don't view the looky-loo invaders with the same disdain that Alaskans do?
Click to expand...


Oh I'm sure they have it on the telly, NBA is all over the world now its a global sport. Popular in Europe too.As far as what you said about Alaskans I have heard Hawaiians feel the same way, so your probably not too far off.


----------



## Sunshine

Saigon said:


> Gallant -
> 
> How much aid does the US give China?



We 'give' them trillions in interest we owe on the loans.


----------



## Sunshine

gallantwarrior said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
> Easy-peasy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell, we already send plenty of our money over to those rathole countries, or should I say, our government confiscates plenty of our money to send to them.  Why anyone in their right mind would want to visit places like that and spend any cash...
> What happened to Laura Logan should have raised some kind of objection from our so-called leaders, what has been done to many of our citizens should have.  But what do you expect when our so-called leaders would rather sit and watch (or listen to) embassy staff being murdered in the streets than order some action that might have saved their lives.
Click to expand...


Our resident board muslim said that didn't happen to Logan.  He said it was 'just touching.'  But they pulled off part of her scalp and she had to undergo surgery for the fisting they did.  I'm glad to have seen the pyramids, but they were a huge disappointment.  Wish I had gone to see the ones on this side of the world instead.  And my stomach hasn't been the same since.  Even with antibiotics.  Egypt is a filthy place and the food all tastes ruined.


----------



## Saigon

gallantwarrior said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gallant -
> 
> How much aid does the US give China?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how much official aid we send to China, but we sure as hell send a lot of our manufacturing infrastructure there.  I work in the transportation industry, and I will tell you unequivocally, when the airplanes come here, they are packed gunwale to gunwale with goods.  When they go back....yeah, not so much.  Lots of times, the planes go back to China with just dunnage.  How much more do we need to send them?
Click to expand...


That isn't aid - it's trade. 

Remember capitalism? Well, China is good at it.


----------



## Saigon

Sunshine said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gallant -
> 
> How much aid does the US give China?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We 'give' them trillions in interest we owe on the loans.
Click to expand...


That isn't aid either - it's interest on money the US borrowed.

There are a couple of posters here a little confused about the difference between capitalism and development aid, it seems!


----------



## Unkotare

I have already provided the information requested.


----------



## Saigon

Sunshine said:


> I'm glad to have seen the pyramids, but they were a huge disappointment.  Wish I had gone to see the ones on this side of the world instead.  And my stomach hasn't been the same since.  Even with antibiotics.  Egypt is a filthy place and the food all tastes ruined.



They pyramids are a huge disappointment to most people - it's all tour buses, touts and crowds. 

BUT - head 20 miles south to Saqqara and you can walk around pyramids in the desert with almost no one around. It's magical. And you can go inside them with a flashlight!!

It's always a shame when people spend 3 days in a massive country, miss all of the major sites, and then spend the rest of their life running the place down. 

Did you try diving in the Red Sea - it's some of the best diving in the world?

Did you head out into the Sahara, or visit a real oasis like Siwa?

Did you visit Luxor or Abu Simbel?

No, of course you didn't. 

And Egyptian food can be very, very good. But as in any city you have to know where to eat, and if you ate conference food, it probably wasn't any better than it would be in the US.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Saigon said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gallant -
> 
> How much aid does the US give China?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how much official aid we send to China, but we sure as hell send a lot of our manufacturing infrastructure there.  I work in the transportation industry, and I will tell you unequivocally, when the airplanes come here, they are packed gunwale to gunwale with goods.  When they go back....yeah, not so much.  Lots of times, the planes go back to China with just dunnage.  How much more do we need to send them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn't aid - it's trade.
> 
> Remember capitalism? Well, China is good at it.
Click to expand...


They sure are good at trade.  
I've never looked much into how much aid we send to China, though.  If I get some time, I might just check it out.  Do you have any stats?


----------



## Saigon

Gallant - 

I don't hae any stats, but I would doubt any development aid is being sent to China. There may be some US charities running projects there, of course, but I'd be surprised if there is any federally funded projects. 

Egypt has received aid money from the US for decades, though it's a tiny figure when compared with what goes to Israel.


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Gallant -
> 
> I don't hae [sic] any stats, but I would doubt any development aid is being sent to China. There may be some US charities running projects there, of course, but I'd be surprised if there is [sic] any federally funded projects.





http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS22663.pdf



Pretentious Boy strikes out again.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Saigon said:


> Gallant -
> 
> I don't hae any stats, but I would doubt any development aid is being sent to China. There may be some US charities running projects there, of course, but I'd be surprised if there is any federally funded projects.
> 
> Egypt has received aid money from the US for decades, though it's a tiny figure when compared with what goes to Israel.



I wouldn't be surprised either if US government aid to China was limited.  Of course, they don't need, and probably don't want, our help.  Private charities are welcome to do what they can or want to.

At this juncture, I'd be pretty pleased to see our "powers that be" retract any financial funding for any government whose policies are clearly anti-American.  They don't like us, why should the American taxpayer support them?
We have a budget crisis and desperately need to start trimming our expenditures.  The first cuts should be to foreign aid.  We need to fix our problems at home before we run around bankrolling people who generally hate our guts but love our bucks.


----------



## gallantwarrior

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gallant -
> 
> I don't hae [sic] any stats, but I would doubt any development aid is being sent to China. There may be some US charities running projects there, of course, but I'd be surprised if there is [sic] any federally funded projects.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS22663.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Pretentious Boy strikes out again.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that link.  It doesn't seem like all that much, compared to how much we spend in other, smaller places.


----------



## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> Most ATM's in America have daily limit on the amount of money you can access.
> 
> But a Brazilian friend of mine told me that in his country there is no daily draw limit at ATM's
> 
> Because ATM kidnapping is so common and the prices for ransom gotten so high.
> 
> You must be able to quickly meet the criminal demands or they will kill the victim.





In Brazil, sometimes that criminal is the government and it doesn't matter what your daily limit is.


----------



## Gadawg73

Sunshine said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good business people will recognize the market and work with it.  If muslims don't want to share common facilities and alternatives are available, by all means, and welcome to them.  Too bad this country is such a cesspit of stupidity.  If a business wants to cater to smokers, for instance, they should be permitted to.  You don't like smoking, you don't like muslims, or whatever else, don't patronize an establishment that caters to them.
> Easy-peasy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Americans are welcome to travel in Egypt and China. But thy don't supply us with toilet paper.
> 
> But your point is tkaen.  You don't like getting raped and fisted and have someone try to pull your scalp and limbs off for an hour like Laura Logan, don't visit an islamic theocracy.  I never will again!
Click to expand...


In Dubai and many other Muslim countries they do not have toilet paper as they hike their robes up and crap in a hole in most establishments other than hotels and western catering places. Then they have a garden hose like thing to spray your ass with.

Hygiene takes a back seat to religious customs.


----------

