# Jews for Justice..... If Americans really Knew



## nat4900 (Apr 3, 2015)

The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

The synopsis of a much longer article (below) was written by Jews who felt compelled to expose the Zionist agenda that has caused so much bloodshed in the former Palestine.


The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today.

*The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true. * What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

*In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people*.

One further point: being Jewish ourselves, the position we present here is critical of Zionism but is in no way anti-Semitic. We do not believe that the Jews acted worse than any other group might have acted in their situation. The Zionists (who were a distinct minority of the Jewish people until after WWII) had an understandable desire to establish a place where Jews could be masters of their own fate, given the bleak history of Jewish oppression. Especially as the danger to European Jewry crystalized in the late 1930’s and after, the actions of the Zionists were propelled by real desperation.

*But so were the actions of the Arabs. The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. This is the root of the problem.*


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## nat4900 (Apr 3, 2015)

Maybe it was too much to read......???


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## montelatici (Apr 3, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Maybe it was too much to read......???



Just fact.  Jews came from Europe and dispossessed the local inhabitants of their land.  Unless you believe the Jews had a right to dispossess the Christians and Muslims of their land and evict them, because the Jewish God said so, there isn't any justification for the dispossession.


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## toastman (Apr 3, 2015)

montelatici said:


> nat4900 said:
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> > Maybe it was too much to read......???
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Actually, Jews came to the region and were attacked/massacred  several times. Then after declaring independence, 5 Arab states and Palestinian militias surrounded the new state and attacked her with the intention of destroying her. Only then when the Jews managed to get on the offensive did they expel Palestinians, who were trying to expel the Jews.
Actions have consequences.


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## Phoenall (Apr 4, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> The synopsis of a much longer article (below) was written by Jews who felt compelled to expose the Zionist agenda that has caused so much bloodshed in the former Palestine.
> 
> ...








 Biggest load of crap ever, read their end times story and see exactly what they believe


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## Phoenall (Apr 4, 2015)

montelatici said:


> nat4900 said:
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> > Maybe it was too much to read......???
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 EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR FANTASY   as the Jews were invited and given the land by the legal owners.  Nothing to do with any God all to do with man.    And your God gave you the world and told you to kill the unbelievers didn't he


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## nat4900 (Apr 4, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> And your God gave you the world *and told you to kill the unbelievers didn't he*




Darn, I did not get _that_ memo from God.....could you send me a copy?


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## nat4900 (Apr 4, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Biggest load of crap ever, read their end times story and see exactly what they believe




Sorry, I should have written that the article was meant for those people who DO NOT have reading comprehension.....THAT would have prevented you from having to read that "load of crap".....


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## Phoenall (Apr 4, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > And your God gave you the world *and told you to kill the unbelievers didn't he*
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 Look at who it was in reply to, or cant you read that well


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## montelatici (Apr 4, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
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Jews were not invited and were never given land by the legal owners.  You just make things up, as usual.


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## nat4900 (Apr 4, 2015)

Here's an interesting clip/blog regarding the "land" that Palestinians now have left in a place that once was called Palestine......ironic, isn't it.

Israel Takes Away 44 of Gaza Land ... Herds Gazans Into Remaining Area Washington s Blog

This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” *already one of the more densely populated places on earth*, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the three-kilometer (1.8 mile) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about *44 percent of Gaza’s territory*.

*It’s not like Israel didn’t plan this.* It told tens of thousands of Palestinians to flee so its air force, artillery and tanks could create this uninhabitable no-man’s land of half standing, burned-out buildings, broken concrete and twisted metal. During a brief humanitarian ceasefire some Gazans were able to come back to get their first glimpse of the destruction this war has brought to their communities, and to sift through their demolished homes to gather clothes or other scattered bits of their past lives. But many were not even able to do that.


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## nat4900 (Apr 4, 2015)

toastman said:


> Actually, Jews came to the region and were attacked/massacred several times. Then after declaring independence, 5 Arab states and Palestinian militias surrounded the new state and attacked her with the intention of destroying her. Only then when the Jews managed to get on the offensive did they expel Palestinians, who were trying to expel the Jews.
> Actions have consequences.



I think this revisionist history is almost exactly what was reported by settlers in the Dakotas about the Sioux.....


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## Hossfly (Apr 4, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> The synopsis of a much longer article (below) was written by Jews who felt compelled to expose the Zionist agenda that has caused so much bloodshed in the former Palestine.
> 
> ...


Great site you are using there, Natty Boy.

http://www.think-israel.org/waltzer.alisonweir.html


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## nat4900 (Apr 4, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Great site you are using there, Natty Boy.




You don't like the source, the content or you don't like the fact that the article disagrees with what you faithfully "learn" from FOX?


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## Hossfly (Apr 4, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Hossfly said:
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> > Great site you are using there, Natty Boy.
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Did anyone ever say that I watched FOX?  I thought you were the one watching it.  Are we supposed to believe an anti-Zionist Leftist Jew who would like to see the Israeli Jews roll over for the Arabs.  You and those who think like you do can lap up every word which comes from her site.  Please excuse me and others if we don't fall for what that site says.


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## nat4900 (Apr 4, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Did anyone ever say that I watched FOX? I thought you were the one watching it. Are we supposed to believe an anti-Zionist Leftist Jew who would like to see the Israeli Jews roll over for the Arabs. You and those who think like you do can lap up every word which comes from her site. Please excuse me and others if we don't fall for what that site says.


 
You don't have to "fall" for anything Weir states.....The article was intended for less hate filled people who ALSO want to hear a different side of the story ....you know, the NON-Zionist, less Nazi-like point of view?
You and other dingbats choose to listen to just one side....the side that fits your biases , the side where you don't have to think on your own...the side that lets you just go on and hate and wallow in your own bile......

As for me......well, I'm happy to share the "other" side for more open-minded, intelligent folks.


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## Hossfly (Apr 4, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
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> > Did anyone ever say that I watched FOX? I thought you were the one watching it. Are we supposed to believe an anti-Zionist Leftist Jew who would like to see the Israeli Jews roll over for the Arabs. You and those who think like you do can lap up every word which comes from her site. Please excuse me and others if we don't fall for what that site says.
> ...


Have you ever thought that we have heard "the other side" many times before?  Of course you have no  interest in what is going on in the rest of the Middle East becaise anti-Zionist Leftist Jews like Allison Weir are not interested about what else is going on so they don't have anything to say on their sites?


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## nat4900 (Apr 4, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Have you ever thought that we have heard "the other side" many times before? Of course you have no interest in what is going on in the rest of the Middle East becaise anti-Zionist Leftist Jews like Allison Weir are not interested about what else is going on so they don't have anything to say on their sites?




Like I stated....whatever Weir writes is NOT for you.....but others, less biased may want to read what she and many others write or openly speak about......That is still allowed in the Zionist world, no, or have they've gone full Nazi on us?


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## Hossfly (Apr 4, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Hossfly said:
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> > Have you ever thought that we have heard "the other side" many times before? Of course you have no interest in what is going on in the rest of the Middle East becaise anti-Zionist Leftist Jews like Allison Weir are not interested about what else is going on so they don't have anything to say on their sites?
> ...


Weir is simply a deranged kook. So stop humping my leg.


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## skye (Apr 4, 2015)

This thread  by the  OP ...is the nadir in human shortshighted stupidity!


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## Hossfly (Apr 4, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Have you ever thought that we have heard "the other side" many times before? Of course you have no interest in what is going on in the rest of the Middle East becaise anti-Zionist Leftist Jews like Allison Weir are not interested about what else is going on so they don't have anything to say on their sites?
> ...



Natty Boy, you are quite obvious.  I have to laugh when you say those "less biased."  Usually the ones who use sites like Allison Weir's are the ones who are really biased against Israel and the Jews.  I hate to rain on your parade, but let me say it again. We have seen the same thing that Allison Weir's site says dozens of times throughout the years by those who are biased against Israel so what you are bringing up is nothing new to many of the readers here.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Weir is simply a deranged kook. So stop humping my leg.




See, you found a fellow-dingbat in *Skye*......there must be lots of people like you two that don't want to hear anything to cloud or question your biases......and bigotry....just listen to Bibi and other Zionists.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> so what you are bringing up is nothing new to many of the readers here.




In other words, this forum is chuck full of fellow bigots like yourself?

WOW..........after joining, do the rest of us get to wear little hoods too?


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## theliq (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> The synopsis of a much longer article (below) was written by Jews who felt compelled to expose the Zionist agenda that has caused so much bloodshed in the former Palestine.
> 
> ...


Moreover this saying was coined by a Zionist way back in 1890's.....it was Bullshit then,and Bigger Bullshit today........but A TYPICAL of the Zionist Terrorist Bullshit Mantra.....excellent Post by the way.....nat..steve


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
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Here you go Abdul the facts that are set out in INTERNATIONAL LAW

The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate



*The Palestine Mandate*
*The Council of the League of Nations:*
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and

Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and

Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and

Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations;

confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:



*ARTICLE 1.*
The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate.

*ART. 2.*
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will *secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions,* and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.

*ART. 3.*
The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local autonomy.

*ART. 4.*
An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

*ART. 5.*
The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign Power.

*ART. 6.*
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, *shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.*


 So you see the Jews were invited by the lands legal owners and the land of Palestine left after forming Trans Jordan was to be the National home of the Jews.

 Guess you don't like the truth and facts do you Abdul as they destroy your islamonazi propaganda


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Hossfly said:
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> > so what you are bringing up is nothing new to many of the readers here.
> ...





 You wanna see a bigot just go look in a mirror


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

theliq said:


> nat4900 said:
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> > The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
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How many innocents have Zionists killed compared to those killed by islamonazis ?     Is it about 1 million to the islamonazi's compared to 1 by the Zionists ?


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## pbel (Apr 5, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
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Please Phoney your Certificate of Sanity might give you some credibility, post it!


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 5, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> nat4900 said:
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> > The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
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Indeed, nobody is worth his salt if not thoroughly slimed by the criminal class.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion*.



Notice that *allPhony* did NOT highlight and bolded a KEY portion of Art.2 of the Palestinian Mandate......as a service, here it is above.

Yep.....the Israeli government  has certainly been "safeguarding" Palestinians' civil rights, don't you think?


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> How many innocents have Zionists killed compared to those killed by islamonazis ? Is it about 1 million to the islamonazi's compared to 1 by the Zionists ?



Gee, dingbat.......hard to find "innocence" in all that blood and body parts....But here are some stats from the Jewish Telegraph...
Palestinian deaths vs. Israeli deaths Jewish Telegraphic Agency

*The number of Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths is clearly disproportionate — as of this writing, about 192:1.*


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
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 When are you going to post yours, or are you still under treatment ?


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion*.
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 As they applied in 1922, now care to define what those religious and civil rights were in 1922 ?


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > How many innocents have Zionists killed compared to those killed by islamonazis ? Is it about 1 million to the islamonazi's compared to 1 by the Zionists ?
> ...





 Now look at the totals for islamonazis and Zionists and you will that for every 1 million innocents murdered in the name of islam there are only 1 murdered in the name of Zionism.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

*allPhoney* may have fallen on his/her arse when forced to backtrack so freaking fast.....LOL


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## Carla_Danger (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
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> > And your God gave you the world *and told you to kill the unbelievers didn't he*
> ...





I have never received ANY memo from ANY Gawd.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Carla_Danger said:


> I have never received ANY memo from ANY Gawd



I once got a letter from Ronald Reagan asking for donations.....Is that the right wingers' equivalent of a memo from a deity?


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## Carla_Danger (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
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> > I have never received ANY memo from ANY Gawd
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I believe they'd like to have him on a stamp, just to lick his backside.


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## Carla_Danger (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone ever say that I watched FOX? I thought you were the one watching it. Are we supposed to believe an anti-Zionist Leftist Jew who would like to see the Israeli Jews roll over for the Arabs. You and those who think like you do can lap up every word which comes from her site. Please excuse me and others if we don't fall for what that site says.
> ...




And some of us would just like for them to stop killing each other.  (speaking for myself )  Just from personal observation, especially with religious nutters, they seem willing to give blind support, while ignoring the living conditions in Gaza....A defenseless civilian population, trapped in an open-aired prison with very little clean water.  I don't understand how they can be so one sided.


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

Carla_Danger said:


> nat4900 said:
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 Blame it on hamas as they are the ones that caused the problems in the first place. Stop the violence, terrorism and targeting Israeli children and the IDF will not need to destroy the rocket launch sites in civilian areas.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Maybe it was too much to read......???



Maybe because those of us with knowledge of historical facts and brains know what you posted is total fucking garbage.

Given these unassailable facts, no sane human can defend the arab muslims:

1) arab muslims were attacking and murdering jews in the mideast for centuries prior to 1948

2) arab muslims have never and still do not get along with ANY other group in the mideast: coptics, maronites, chaldeans, yazidis, bahai, azeri, maneacheans, kurds, etc.

3) there was massive amounts of arab muslim-directed anti-Israel terrorism before 1967, so complaints about the occupation are a ruse

Stick to the facts, dimwit.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. *.*



I separated this moronic comment as it would then give the 200 million white americans the right to terrorise and murder the 40 million illegal aliens who have snuck into the US, some of whom refuse to assimilate and want to turn the SW US into a latino country again.

Notice how other groups are allowed to move, immigrate, etc., but not jews.  The far left racist trash has no interest in consistency, ever.  Just an agenda.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Blame it on hamas as they are the ones that caused the problems in the first place. Stop the violence, terrorism and targeting Israeli children and the IDF will not need to destroy the rocket launch sites in civilian areas.




BLATANTLY one-sided.......Come on, BO ONE is defending the Hamas' nut-jobs....but did these people one day just out of the blue decided to be bad guys?......Or did they gain support PRECISELY because the land-grab policies of some Israelis, and apartheid-like conditions in Gaza and West Bank were deplorable?


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## Hossfly (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
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> > Blame it on hamas as they are the ones that caused the problems in the first place. Stop the violence, terrorism and targeting Israeli children and the IDF will not need to destroy the rocket launch sites in civilian areas.
> ...


Maybe the job situation caused Hamas to evolve. They could help the situation by picking up the trash all around Gaza. Might even give them the incentive to work for a living.


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Blame it on hamas as they are the ones that caused the problems in the first place. Stop the violence, terrorism and targeting Israeli children and the IDF will not need to destroy the rocket launch sites in civilian areas.
> ...






 They have been fed it through the teat since 635 C.E. when Mohamed commanded the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS"


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## Billo_Really (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> The synopsis of a much longer article (below) was written by Jews who felt compelled to expose the Zionist agenda that has caused so much bloodshed in the former Palestine.
> 
> ...


Absolutely!  Great OP!

I just wanted to say that before I start reading (and dealing with) statements from these lying little bitches, who defend the Zionist invaders and insurgents.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 5, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> They have been fed it through the teat since 635 C.E. when Mohamed commanded the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS"


You're the biggest lying little bitch of all.  Fuck your country for providing military support to these Zionist whores!


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> They have been fed it through the teat since 635 C.E. when Mohamed commanded the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS"




Another moronic post from allPhoney....who probably "learns" her history from listening to that great Islamic scholar, Sean Hannity.......

Mohammed NEVER, ever stated "kill the Jews"......As Islam is the newest of religions, they honor previous prophets such as Abraham and Jesus.....

Any animosity toward Jews by Mohammed, stems from TWO factors:

1. In an Arab civil war of Mohammed's era, some Jewish tribes who traded and co-existed with Mohammed's followers betrayed him by opening the gates to the city that Mohammed was defending from the opposition......

2. Mohammed was basically a merchant and business person.....He had lucrative caravan trade routes from the Far East and found that some independent Jewish merchants were taking over those same routes.

The MAIN ROOT of the modern antipathy and subsequent bloodshed between Islamists and Jews stems from the Palestinians' displacement and apartheid.......Sure there are other reasons and certainly there sectarian civil wars between Muslims......BUT the objective of this thread was to point out that there is ANOTHER side of the story regarding Jews and Arabs.....

This "other side" is obviously NOT for those who live and breathe bigotry.....they're too far gone in their hate-filled existence.....but this other side is for folks who may still have an open mind.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> Maybe the job situation caused Hamas to evolve. They could help the situation by picking up the trash all around Gaza. Might even give them the incentive to work for a living.




Or maybe they can start picking cotton, right, *Hossshit*?


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Given these unassailable facts, no sane human can defend the arab muslims:
> 
> 1) arab muslims were attacking and murdering jews in the mideast for centuries prior to 1948
> 
> ...



Another example of "facts" by a right winger who probably goes to the bathroom, squats, and after a few grimaces, looks down at the bowl for her "facts."


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## Billo_Really (Apr 5, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Maybe because those of us with knowledge of historical facts and brains know what you posted is total fucking garbage.
> 
> Given these unassailable facts, no sane human can defend the arab muslims:
> 
> ...


Why don't you prove it, you stupid bitch?

You can't, because you're bitchy little lying asshole!

Here's a comment from a Zionist (Ahad Ha'am) living at that time...



> _ "...the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives ..."_


You get that, fuckhead?  The "natives", in this case, were the _*people already living there*_, you fuckin' asswhipe!



> _ 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine?_


Yeah, what did they do?



> _ Just the very opposite!_


Do you hear that, fuckhead?  They did the "opposite".  These are the people fucks like you are defending.



> _Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism._


Despots!  You're fucking defending despots.

But the worst is.....and this is what fuckers like you prove with every post.......that when given a little power, this is what you do to others...



> _*They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination*_


And you do that, to this very day!


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Speaking with some of my Native American friends, they describe what is going on in the former Palestine as very much akin to what their own ancestors experienced.....the steady dislocation of people from ancestral lands to smaller and smaller reservations.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Speaking with some of my Native American friends, they describe what is going on in the former Palestine as very much akin to what their own ancestors experienced.....the steady dislocation of people from ancestral lands to smaller and smaller reservations.


I'll have you know, one of my hero's (and mentor), is John Trudell.


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## nat4900 (Apr 5, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> I'll have you know, one of my hero's (and mentor), is John Trudell.



Ah, the insightful and wise author of ".....do not trust anyone who isn't angry at how the world works..."


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> nat4900 said:
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> > The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
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 The invaders under International law are the arab muslims as they had no claim to the land since 1099 when they had their butt kicked and run off.( seems to happen to them a lot ) Unless you an find evidence to the contrary, like Ottoman census returns and land registry


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## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
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> > They have been fed it through the teat since 635 C.E. when Mohamed commanded the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS"
> ...






 Read the Koran and hadiths dildo and see just how the islamonazi hatred of the Jews started, and how Mohamed issued religious commands to " KILL THE JEWS"


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > They have been fed it through the teat since 635 C.E. when Mohamed commanded the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS"
> ...







 Try the Koran and hadiths for my information, just like this that tells of Mohamed telling the muslims to "KILL THE JEWS "


 “Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless* the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him*; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.” — Sahih Muslim 6985


 Not according to contemporary accounts. the arab muslims had just defeated the Meccans and were flushed with success when Mohamed decided to take on the 3 Jewish tribes in Medina and destroy them one at a time. The last Tribe had done nothing wrong so he concocted a story ( sounds familiar ) to allow him to wipe them out. All detailed in the hadiths.

 He was a psychopathic cold blooded killer that raped a 12 year old girl next to the bodies of her murdered father and brothers. He suffered from a mental derangement that manifested itself as hearing voices and seeing visions, diagnosed today as frontal lobe epilepsy.


 So before you throw stones try looking at the real facts


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Given these unassailable facts, no sane human can defend the arab muslims:
> ...





Typical left wing nutjob reply when they know they don't have a cat in hells chance of winning the argument, so they resort to abuse, flaming and trolling.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 5, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe because those of us with knowledge of historical facts and brains know what you posted is total fucking garbage.
> ...






MELTDOWN again dildo, shown by your profanities and frothing at the mouth.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 5, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Another example of "facts" by a right winger who probably goes to the bathroom, squats, and after a few grimaces, looks down at the bowl for her "facts."



The mentally ill piece of shit bottom-feeding fucking turd did not even attempt to debate a single fact that I listed, all of which are well know to all sane adults.

Sadly, this forum attracts the absolute worst pieces of shit to defend the arab muslims.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 7, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Neither the LoN nor the British were the owners of Palestine, you just can't get that through your addled mind can you?


----------



## Challenger (Apr 7, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



So you finally admit you have a certificate of sanity....


----------



## Challenger (Apr 7, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Another example of "facts" by a right winger who probably goes to the bathroom, squats, and after a few grimaces, looks down at the bowl for her "facts."
> ...



...says the potty-mouth Zionist scholar wannabee.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 7, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



That explains why you do so much flaming and trolling.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 7, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 Read the terms of surrender signed by the Ottomans and the LoN, later ratified by the Turks and the LoN that gave title of the land to the LoN.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 7, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...






 Now where did I write that, you must be needing one as well seeing as you have problems reading what is in front of you.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 7, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 Just your opinion which with £2 will get you a cup of coffee


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

A not too-far-fetched comparison would be this......

Thousands of Mexicans moved up north (as it is indeed happening) .... occupied most of southern California and placed those Americans already living there in a small desert enclave....claiming that Spain had "rightfully" bestowed land grants to them back in the 1500s, and that southern California was their promised land.

One wonders how WE would react to that scenario.


----------



## Daniyel (Apr 7, 2015)

Israel is widening the buffer zone regardless of Hamas stacking weaponry and past aggression against innocent civilians, if the Gaza's still support (and they do) armed conflict against Israel and in particularly innocent civilians we shouldnt just toss them all in a bottle to the ocean but wipe them off the face of the earth, no point seeking peace with such people.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Israel is widening the buffer zone regardless of Hamas stacking weaponry and past aggression against innocent civilians, if the Gaza's still support (and they do) armed conflict against Israel and in particularly innocent civilians we shouldnt just toss them all in a bottle to the ocean but wipe them off the face of the earth, no point seeking peace with such people.


 

Moronic response.......So much for a TWO state solution then (as Netanyahu slipped and stated).......WHY can't Palestinians....the original and uninterrupted inhabitants of that land ALSO have their own sovereign state?


----------



## Daniyel (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Israel is widening the buffer zone regardless of Hamas stacking weaponry and past aggression against innocent civilians, if the Gaza's still support (and they do) armed conflict against Israel and in particularly innocent civilians we shouldnt just toss them all in a bottle to the ocean but wipe them off the face of the earth, no point seeking peace with such people.
> ...


Simple, because they(by vast majority ) are violent and greedy people who is only seek to convert or kill non Muslim, satisfied?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

QUOTE]
Simple, because they(by vast majority ) are violent and greedy people who is only seek to convert or kill non Muslim, satisfied?[/QUOTE]

Far from "satisfied" ....Get back on this thread when your knowledge of Islam and Palestinians in particular goes beyond what you swallow from Fox and Rush.


----------



## eots (Apr 7, 2015)

Hossfly said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
> ...


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> A not too-far-fetched comparison would be this......
> 
> Thousands of Mexicans moved up north (as it is indeed happening) .... occupied most of southern California and placed those Americans already living there in a small desert enclave....claiming that Spain had "rightfully" bestowed land grants to them back in the 1500s, and that southern California was their promised land.
> 
> One wonders how WE would react to that scenario.



We give them REAL approved driver's licenses, let them drop anchor babies, basically give them citizenship and financial support.  Get real.

The Israelis have fought tooth and nail for every thing they have in that country.

So basically with Nat what ever, we have a new pig to regurgitate the same old slop that the rest of the pigs have been doing to us.

Welcome to the board, now get fix your rectal cranial insertion problem and see the real truth.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > A not too-far-fetched comparison would be this......
> ...


 

....and here I thought that maybe some right wingers had an IQ above their waist size.....Thanks for clarifying _THAT_ myth.


----------



## Daniyel (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> QUOTE]
> Simple, because they(by vast majority ) are violent and greedy people who is only seek to convert or kill non Muslim, satisfied?



Far from "satisfied" ....Get back on this thread when your knowledge of Islam and Palestinians in particular goes beyond what you swallow from Fox and Rush.[/QUOTE]
I served for three years in the Israeli Border Guard in special unit and nearly got killed (murdered) about 5 times, I speaks Hebrew fluently and able to speak Arabic in addition to few years I'm researching the conflict and the M.E. as a hobby I'd say Israeli reality is pretty enlightening than IfAmericanKnew.com or farther Palestinian unbiased presentation to reality, I'm also against TV If you really wonder.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 7, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > A not too-far-fetched comparison would be this......
> ...



Fought tooth and nail?  Even in colonizing and stealing land the Jews have others do the hard work.  In this case the British.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE]
> ...


I served for three years in the Israeli Border Guard in special unit and nearly got killed (murdered) about 5 times, I speaks Hebrew fluently and able to speak Arabic in addition to few years I'm researching the conflict and the M.E. as a hobby I'd say Israeli reality is pretty enlightening than IfAmericanKnew.com or farther Palestinian unbiased presentation to reality, I'm also against TV If you really wonder.[/QUOTE]


....those 3 years would make you brave BUT not necessarily objective...The O/P's article was written by fellow Jews who, are exercising a good measure of objectivity and have had enough of Israeli poleticinas always playing the "victim" and the fear-mongering doctrine....

Give Palestine a sovereign state and stop the land grab just because you can......otherwise, you'll always have terrorist acts in that area...and that may keeo the likes of Netanyahu in power, but its hell on common Israelis.


----------



## Daniyel (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...




....those 3 years would make you brave BUT not necessarily objective...The O/P's article was written by fellow Jews who, are exercising a good measure of objectivity and have had enough of Israeli poleticinas always playing the "victim" and the fear-mongering doctrine....

Give Palestine a sovereign state and stop the land grab just because you can......otherwise, you'll always have terrorist acts in that area...and that may keeo the likes of Netanyahu in power, but its hell on common Israelis.[/QUOTE]
Alright, I see that you simply repeat the "sudden peace" lines and instead of explaining in depth why this is all fictions (and the proof they're all fictions is the fact people keep repeating them,.they'd never happen) - so instead of that - I'm going to ask you one simple question hopefully you'll realize what is really going on;
What has convinced me - the REAL common Israeli which also voted for the Likkud(Nethanyahu) that there is no point to make negotiations or any kind of progress with the Palestinians - and this is regardless of me being objective because for us (Jews) one drop of blood is a catastrophe.
And spare me the propagandish mottoes the streets are still covered with the garbage Obama left here.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> And spare me the propagandish mottoes the streets are still covered with the garbage Obama left here.




I'm sure that when Obama is out of office, you'll STILL find something to bitch about and, of course, play the ETERNAL VICTIM......You should realize that much of the world has heard enough........some countries in Europe are going to recognize Palestine as a legitimate state.......and unless you kill off every Palestinian, they'll have sovereignty.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

BTW......since the O/P's article was written by Jews, will you also begin to exercise apartheid toward what you consider the "bad" Jews?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 7, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> The invaders under International law are the arab muslims as they had no claim to the land since 1099 when they had their butt kicked and run off.( seems to happen to them a lot ) Unless you an find evidence to the contrary, like Ottoman census returns and land registry


Post the international law you're referring to.


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 7, 2015)

Hey Nat4900, you're getting right into the 'swing' of being a pro-pali using all those 'keywords'.  Like Apartheid for example.  Occupation, resistance, etc.

Check this.  What if the Palestinians just froze their shit and claimed for a* peaceful *independent state right now where they have control.  Hamas stops digging tunnels, etc.  What about that?

p.s., do not lump me into some 'catagory' like right wing please.  I do not watch Fox, nor feel like rush is my 'messiah'.  I like to dig a bit deeper than all that.


----------



## Daniyel (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > And spare me the propagandish mottoes the streets are still covered with the garbage Obama left here.
> ...


I'm still waiting for an answer, what made the Israelis not willing to work with the Palestinians anymore?  
(By the way I couldn't care less about the Palestinians at this point while every progress they make only intended to delay the current situation where Israel is to be put on trial while they lose grip on their previous claims they obviously want it all or nothing and so far you can say whatever you want but you can't deny that fact so keep that in mind, for instance the apartheid claim is a double edge for them)


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> I like to dig a bit deeper than all that.



Dig even DEEPER....you have a long way to go.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> (By the way I couldn't care less about the Palestinians at this point




Obviously you couldn't care less.......and BTW, it is not I who labels the Israeli treatment of Palestinians as "apartheid"......From Carter and Tutu...several French and Italian diplomats, etc. they've visited and labeled....Of course, the "tolerant" Israeli don't want those visitors any longer...they interfere with the myth that only Israeli can ever be the victims....It isn't the first time that the oppressed became the oppressors.


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > I like to dig a bit deeper than all that.
> ...



Oh no.  I have dug that deep.  Just as deep as you are now.  That is the place that the pro-pal movement wants you to be.  So deep that you cannot see the bigger picture with the whole truth.

I can see that you are that deep into the bullshit, because you as every other single pro-pal does, cherry picks an argument to meet the 'narrative'.

Why didn't you address this part of my post at all?:



> Check this. What if the Palestinians just froze their shit and claimed for a* peaceful *independent state right now where they have control. Hamas stops digging tunnels, etc. What about that?



Didn't even include it in your quote of my post.  Why not?

Because you have no intention for peace for the Palestinians either.


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > (By the way I couldn't care less about the Palestinians at this point
> ...



Of course you couldn't care less, keep up the cherry pick, the deflection, the lies.  Oh and do not forget to keep using the special keywords, "Apartheid", "Genocide", "Racism", "Facist", or what ever other ones that you as a stupid pig laps up and regurgitates.

Cull.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> Check this. What if the Palestinians just froze their shit and claimed for a* peaceful *independent state right now where they have control. Hamas stops digging tunnels, etc. What about that?



In other words....SURRENDER.....
Well, maybe they could or should BUT THIUS KEEPS ON HAPPENING


----------



## natstew (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
> 
> The synopsis of a much longer article (below) was written by Jews who felt compelled to expose the Zionist agenda that has caused so much bloodshed in the former Palestine.
> 
> ...



Jews have been living there since Moses led them gfrom Eqypt! The so called Palestinians are the invaders, PERIOD!


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> Of course you couldn't care less, keep up the cherry pick, the deflection, the lies. Oh and do not forget to keep using the special keywords, "Apartheid", "Genocide", "Racism", "Facist", or what ever other ones that you as a stupid pig laps up and regurgitates.




First of all it was one of your ilk that stated "I couldn't care less"...and regarding those terms and keywords, I LEARNED THEM FROM THE JEWS WHO KEEP REMINDING US THAT THEY ARE THE ONLY VICTIMS....ever, and we should all just support their Zionism and, of course, send money so they can buy more weapons to slaughter neighbors.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

natstew said:


> Jews have been living there since Moses led them gfrom Eqypt! TYher so called Palestinians are the invaders, PERIOD!




Yet another idiot who "learned" his history from Dell Comics....

This forum is a cesspool of many (not all) moronic right wingers


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > Weir is simply a deranged kook. So stop humping my leg.
> ...


Add me to the fellow dingbats Club..........I like the company.


----------



## natstew (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> natstew said:
> 
> 
> > Jews have been living there since Moses led them gfrom Eqypt! TYher so called Palestinians are the invaders, PERIOD!
> ...



Not quite asshole. I've read extensively  on the history of the Holy Land.

It's you who reads and believes the "Johnny come lately" version.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

natstew said:


> Not quite asshole. I've read extensively on the history of the Holy Land.




Yeah, yeah.......
Now go to the line, "...some of my best friends are Palestinians.."


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> natstew said:
> 
> 
> > Not quite asshole. I've read extensively on the history of the Holy Land.
> ...


Are you late for the Hamas meeting...............


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Are you late for the Hamas meeting...............




Yep. I got delayed watching you and your ilk burning a cross on someone's lawn.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you late for the Hamas meeting...............
> ...


Your buddies called.............said you were late for the bon fire.


----------



## GWV5903 (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Yet another idiot who "learned" his history from Dell Comics....
> 
> This forum is a cesspool of many (not all) moronic right wingers


 
Excuse me but it is you claiming that Hamas is the innocent victim...

Do you read this shit before you type it or are you a cut and paste monkey?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 7, 2015)

GWV5903 said:


> *E**xcuse me but it is you claiming that Hamas is the innocent victim*...



Now, I never stated that....you got that from digging into your arse hole and called it a "fact."


----------



## Daniyel (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > (By the way I couldn't care less about the Palestinians at this point
> ...


You are still avoiding the question and this is probably because you don't want to face the truth, I see no reason to continue what I used to consider a debate when you keep repeating your conclusions by relating to half of my words to force your wrong conclusions, I can easily ignore your immature insults but I can't deal with your obtusenes.


----------



## GWV5903 (Apr 7, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Now, I never stated that....you got that from digging into your arse hole and called it a "fact."


 
You really don't know what you're saying that much is clear, but to admit it is takes special capabilities...

I suggest you dig your head out of your asshole, oxygen may help...


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> A not too-far-fetched comparison would be this......
> 
> Thousands of Mexicans moved up north (as it is indeed happening) .... occupied most of southern California and placed those Americans already living there in a small desert enclave....claiming that Spain had "rightfully" bestowed land grants to them back in the 1500s, and that southern California was their promised land.
> 
> One wonders how WE would react to that scenario.






Depends on how long you had colonised the land for wouldn't it.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Israel is widening the buffer zone regardless of Hamas stacking weaponry and past aggression against innocent civilians, if the Gaza's still support (and they do) armed conflict against Israel and in particularly innocent civilians we shouldnt just toss them all in a bottle to the ocean but wipe them off the face of the earth, no point seeking peace with such people.
> ...






 They have and the two states are Jordan for the arab muslims and Israel for the rest


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> They have and the two states are Jordan for the arab muslims and Israel for the rest



Sure, Jordanians wouldn't mind........What a MORONIC statement....


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > They have and the two states are Jordan for the arab muslims and Israel for the rest
> ...






 Not when you realise that the maps of the time show the split of arab Palestine and Jewish Palestine.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Depends on how long you had colonised the land for wouldn't it.



Oh, good lord, get a brain.....or ask advice from a grown-up before responding.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on how long you had colonised the land for wouldn't it.
> ...


He's just trolling, don't let him get to you, that's how he gets his jollies..


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Not when you realise that the maps of the time show the split of arab Palestine and Jewish Palestine.




Sure, British maps are viewed by everyone as if they were tablets from Mt. Sinai.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Depends on how long you had colonised the land for wouldn't it.
> ...






 Well how long had islam colonised the land of palestine


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Not when you realise that the maps of the time show the split of arab Palestine and Jewish Palestine.
> ...






 Not British at all, as Britian had no control in Palestine outside that of the Mandate.  Shows that you don't really have a clue about the Palestine problems


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Not British at all, as Britian had no control in Palestine outside that of the Mandate. Shows that you don't really have a clue about the Palestine problems




You're really too much of a moron to waste time on....Go on find maps from the Turks, the Romans, etc. that show that a Jew from Romania had MORE of a right to some Palestinian land than some Arab whose family had been there for a thousand years. 

WHAT AN IDIOT you must be.....


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Check this. What if the Palestinians just froze their shit and claimed for a* peaceful *independent state right now where they have control. Hamas stops digging tunnels, etc. What about that?
> ...



What part of *peaceful* do you not understand? The reason that it keeps shrinking is because they refuse to surrender, therefore, they will just keep losing.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


 
You sound like you took your lessons on warfare from the French.....LOL


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Not British at all, as Britian had no control in Palestine outside that of the Mandate. Shows that you don't really have a clue about the Palestine problems
> ...






Can you find a map that shows you have more right to first nation land then.


 And by the way the majority of arab muslims did not exist in Palestine 150 years ago, they refused to stay there.


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 8, 2015)

Hey nat, guess you really do struggle with facts. Tell me when the Palestinians/Arabs have won against the Israelis?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> Hey nat, guess you really do struggle with facts. Tell me when the Palestinians/Arabs have won against the Israelis?


 

I've posted a thread on this issue of how Palestinians may be  "winning"


----------



## Challenger (Apr 8, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> Hey nat, guess you really do struggle with facts. Tell me when the Palestinians/Arabs have won against the Israelis?


The war is ongoing, or hadn't you noticed? Winners and losers are normally determined at the end of hostilities. The Brits never won against the Germans in WW2 from 1939-1942 remember?


----------



## Daniyel (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > They have and the two states are Jordan for the arab muslims and Israel for the rest
> ...


Neither Israelis of course~


----------



## montelatici (Apr 8, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Are you always so keen on demonstrating your ignorance?  The Kingdom of Iraq was under British administration via the Anglo-Iraqi Treaty.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 8, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 Then you can produce a non partisan link and maps to that effect cant you ?


----------



## montelatici (Apr 8, 2015)

Of course I can.  But my question is, why do you insist on making a fool of yourself?  It's as if you just can't help it.













Anglo-Iraqi Treaty - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> I've posted a thread on this issue of how Palestinians may be  "winning"



Link?


----------



## teddyearp (Apr 8, 2015)

Challenger said:


> The war is ongoing, or hadn't you noticed? Winners and losers are normally determined at the end of hostilities. The Brits never won against the Germans in WW2 from 1939-1942 remember?



Hmm, so you think I do not notice things eh? You are funny.  And your example of the Brits and the Germans spans a mere 3 years.  You are really funny.  Especially since the Germans did lose.

And since you haven't noticed, let me remind you.  The partition plan gave some to the Arabs and some to Israel, but the Arabs went to war.  At the end of the hostilities, Israel had more than the original plan.  1967. At the end of the hostilities Israel had even more; the whole of Gaza, the whole of the West Bank and even the whole of the Sinai.  And a nice chunk taken away from Syria in the Golan heights. Yom Kipper war in 1973.  Hmm, let me see.  Nope.  Nothing lost there at the end of the hostilities either.

And even since, Israel gave back Gaza and the Sinai.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 8, 2015)

Challenger said:


> ...says the Zionist scholar.



Did you say something, c-nt scumbag?  Thought so.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 8, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Neither the LoN nor the British were the owners of Palestine, you just can't get that through your addled mind can you?



Idiot asshole, the British took over the region from the ottomans, and then handed it off to the UN to adjucate.  Or will you next tell us the sky is not blue, dogshit idiot asshole?


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Give Palestine a sovereign state



Which will do what, you fucking moron?  Will they suddenly stop trying to murder jews the way these pieces of shit did after they got southern lebanon and gaza back?

Are you so incredibly fucking stupid that you believe that this conflict has ANYTHING to do with land?

Its like listening to the mentally ill; there are huge fucking wars raging across the mideast, starting right next door in syria, and all c-nts like this want to talk about are the jews.  What the fuck else is new.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> I'm sure that when Obama is out of office, you'll STILL find something to bitch about and, of course, play the ETERNAL VICTIM......You should realize that much of the world has heard enough........some countries in Europe are going to recognize Palestine as a legitimate state.......and unless you kill off every Palestinian, they'll have sovereignty.



Asshole, since you mention sovereignty, what minority in the mideast have the arab muslim vermin EVER tolerated the sovereignty of?

You are fucking trash, another asshole, probably one of the banned pieces of shit in my sig, returning with a new ID.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> This forum is a cesspool of many (not all) moronic right wingers



Mentally ill idiot, here to troll.  I was hoping that new pro-arab posters would join who actually had some intelligence, unfortunately, this turd is not what I was hoping for.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Sure, British maps are viewed by everyone as if they were tablets from Mt. Sinai.



Those british/french maps delineated lebanon, syria, iraq and jordan, but of course, dogshit like this only attacks the jews.  No surprise there.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> You're really too much of a moron to waste time on....Go on find maps from the Turks, the Romans, etc. that show that a Jew from Romania had MORE of a right to some Palestinian land than some Arab whose family had been there for a thousand years.
> 
> WHAT AN IDIOT you must be.....



So now the c-nt is claiming that the arab muslims from egypt, jordan and syria were "there for 1,000 years...."  

If you had the slightest fraction of intelligence, I'd point you to the census data from 1840-1940, which prove that the vast majority of the arab muslim immigrated, but you're not even close to having the brains to be able to grasp such facts.


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## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> If you had the slightest fraction of intelligence, I'd point you to the census data from 1840-1940, which prove that the vast majority of the arab muslim immigrated, but you're not even close to having the brains to be able to grasp such facts.




*Estimated Population of Palestine 1870-1946*

                       Arabs (%)  Jews (%)  Total
1870  367,224 (98%)  7,000 (2%)  375,000 
1893    469,000 (98%)  10,000 (2%)  497,000 
1912    525,000 (93%)  40,000 (6%)  565,000
1920    542,000 (90%)  61,000 (10%)  603,000
1925    598,000 (83%)  120,000 (17%)  719,000
1930    763,000 (82%)  165,000 (18%)  928,000
1935    886,000 (71%)  355,000 (29%)  1,241,000
1940  1,014,000 (69%)  463,000 (31%)  1,478,000
1946  1,237,000 (65%)  608,000 (35%)  1,845,000
                   Figures are rounded.

Sources: Studies on Palestine during the Ottoman Period, Magnus, 1975; *


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## montelatici (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > If you had the slightest fraction of intelligence, I'd point you to the census data from 1840-1940, which prove that the vast majority of the arab muslim immigrated, but you're not even close to having the brains to be able to grasp such facts.
> ...




The only migrants to Palestine were European Jews.


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## montelatici (Apr 8, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > You're really too much of a moron to waste time on....Go on find maps from the Turks, the Romans, etc. that show that a Jew from Romania had MORE of a right to some Palestinian land than some Arab whose family had been there for a thousand years.
> ...



You are so full of shit.  The only migrants were European Jews.  The Christians and Muslims were the people that have always lived in Palestine.


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## nat4900 (Apr 8, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> If you had the slightest fraction of intelligence, I'd point you to the census data from 1840-1940, which prove that the vast majority of the arab muslim immigrated, but you're not even close to having the brains to be able to grasp such facts.



*Year* *Jews* *Christians* *Muslims* *Total*

1890  43          57            432             532
1914  94          70            525             689
1922  84          71            589             752
1931 175         89            760          1,033
1947 630       143         1,181          1,970
Figures in thousands.


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## pbel (Apr 8, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > If you had the slightest fraction of intelligence, I'd point you to the census data from 1840-1940, which prove that the vast majority of the arab muslim immigrated, but you're not even close to having the brains to be able to grasp such facts.
> ...


The Zionists in America have been traditionally supported of Israel with tons of money and political backing via AIPAC and had practical monopolies in the Mass Media...The media formed opinions that favored Israel totally and against all things Arab in general, and Palestinians locally...

Today there is hope to break this practical monopoly with the advent of the Internet and Smart Phones...

No longer do the Zionists control the media of world news...

The result is more countries and people are becoming anti-Israel as world polls show...Israel is a war seeking country intent of stealing more land and killing all who oppose her.

She is the Pariah of the world.


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## Challenger (Apr 9, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > ...says the Zionist scholar.
> ...



Selective editing on your part, must go with the selective reading and your Tourette's. My original post said:



			
				Challenger said:
			
		

> ...says the potty-mouth Zionist scholar wannabee.



Seems you can't handle the truth amongst your other "talents".


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## Phoenall (Apr 9, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Of course I can.  But my question is, why do you insist on making a fool of yourself?  It's as if you just can't help it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







 A treaty is not administrative control you idiot, and it was not ratified for 2 years.

from your link

 The treaty was signed on behalf of the British by Sir Percy Cox on October 10, 1922. However, it was not ratified by the Iraqi government until 1924. It was only when the British High Commissioner threatened to wield his authority to scrap the constitution, drafted by the Iraqi constituent assembly, that the treaty was finally ratified. It was seen with disdain by many of the people of the new Kingdom, both Sunni and Shia. While it was the first step towards complete independence from the imperial powers, it created a country which was not accepted by all those who found themselves within it.


And it seems that it was much like the Palestinian problem with outsiders coming in and taking the indigenous peoples land


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## Phoenall (Apr 9, 2015)

pbel said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...







 Islamonazi lies and bullshit.

 If the Jews controlled the media there would be no news of anything coming out of gaza.


 What land have they stole then as they have returned occupied land 30 times the area of the occupied land they have today

The opposite is true the world is seeing the truth about islam and is supporting Israel.

That would be Iran and Syria.


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## Challenger (Apr 9, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > The war is ongoing, or hadn't you noticed? Winners and losers are normally determined at the end of hostilities. The Brits never won against the Germans in WW2 from 1939-1942 remember?
> ...



The Zionist Israelis are indeed currently "winning", just like the Nazi Germans from 1939-42. The partition plan would have given 43% of the best land in Palestine to the minority immigrant Zionist colonists, while the native Palestinians would have been left with land mostly unfit for agriculture. The plan was fundamentaly unfair and yet you wonder why the natives opposed it. The native Arabs went to war to stop the Zionist ethnic cleansing and the hostilities never ended. In 1967 the Zionists waged an aggressive war to steal yet more territory and the war went on. Remember Nazi Germany conquered most of Europe and a huge chunk of the USSR at one point, but eventually lost it all. The war is not over yet.


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## Phoenall (Apr 9, 2015)

Challenger said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...








 Only did what you do so stop complaining when you get your own treatment back


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## Challenger (Apr 9, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Fascist Nazi lies and bullshit.

Jewish people don't  control the media, Zionists do. Returning desert is no big sacrifice and whatever the world thinks of radical Islamist fanatics, they still see the Zionist Paradise as a pariah.


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## Challenger (Apr 9, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



Prove it.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

Advertisement

For Meir Kahlon, chairman of the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries, this is a historic week. For the first time, Israel has officially recognized his suffering, that of his family and some 850,000 other Jews who left, were expelled or fled from their homes in Syria, Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab and Muslim countries around the time of the founding of the State of Israel and afterwards.

“Until now, they spoke about the Arab refugees and not the Jewish refugees. Today we are marking the remembrance day commemorating the expulsion of the Jews of Arab lands,” shouted Kahlon emotionally into the microphone at Bar-Ilan University, where a seminar on the topic was held last Thursday with the title “Exodus, Emigration, Expulsion and Uprooting.”

November 30 is the official day the State of Israel marks for the first time as the national day of commemoration for Jewish refugees from Arab lands and Iran, based on a law sponsored by MK Shimon Ohayon (Yisrael Beiteinu) and passed this summer by the Knesset. The date has a special meaning – it is the day after November 29, the day in 1947 that the United Nations General Assembly approved the partition plan for the Palestine Mandate and the creation of a Jewish state. November 30, the day after the decision, is the day the Arabs started their concerted attacks on the Jews.

“The Arab nations did not accept the UN partition plan, and the riots against the Jews started. We want to remember this day as the Nakba [catastrophe in Arabic, used to refer by Palestinians to Israel’s Independence Day] Day of the Jews of Arab lands,” Kahlon told Haaretz. “It is not just the Nakba of the Palestinians – it is also our Nakba, Jews of Arab lands who were expelled and slaughtered.”


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

These people fled the Arab world........................

So what is good for the goose is good for the gander..........................

*STOLEN!*
*These countries STOLE THEIR LAND AND HOMES!*

Forced out by the Arabs to Israel so they would be easier to kill...........arab's words and not mine.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> These people fled the Arab world........................
> 
> So what is good for the goose is good for the gander..........................
> 
> ...


Of course the expulsion of the Jews was a completely separate and unrelated issue to the Palestinian Nakba.

The Palestinians had nothing to do with it.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

Amin Al Husseini Father of Jihad Al Qaeda Arafat Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood

Enjoy the history of the Grand Mufti..................Hitler's best buddy and founder of the Muslim brotherhood............with his roots of the Armenian Genocide......................

Great roots here for the current day Jihadist scum bags.


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## Phoenall (Apr 9, 2015)

Challenger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 So the Negev was prime land was it, what a LYING TURD you are the Jews got the worst land available because the anti semitic UN wanted to engineer a confrontation and so give the land to the arab muslims. But it backfired on them and it was the arab muslims that created the confrontation. Yes the plan was fundamentally unfair because the LoN had already given the 22% of Palestine to the Jews, and 78% to the arab muslims.
 You claim ethnic cleansing yet the evidence shows it was the Jews being ethnically cleansed when over 1 million were evicted from their homes in 1949.

 What land did they steal in 1967 then as again the evidence shows that the land occupied has been returned to the nations who own it. And the war was waged by islamonazi nations who once again were beaten back and destroyed by the Israelis.

You live in a fantasy world of islamonazi propaganda and neo Marxist lies


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## Phoenall (Apr 9, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > These people fled the Arab world........................
> ...






 Did they live in the west bank and forcibly remove the Jews from Jerusalem and the surrounding area in 1949.

 IF THEY DID THEN THEY HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > These people fled the Arab world........................
> ...


As in my last article..............The Grand Mufti had a lot to do with it.................He teamed up with the Ottomans to kill all non believers...........................Helping to kill a million and a half Armenians......................He's the originator of the Muslim Brotherhood.....................and the Uncle of Mr. Arafat.................

The Refugees you refer to.............were told to leave by the Arab League.................who started the Arab League.............................Why the Grand Muftie of course.......................saying they would slaughter the Jews and they could then go back home................

The Arab League was FORMED TO SLAUGHTER THE JEWS..................by the Muftie....................

He thought he'd do to the Jews what he had helped do to the Armenians.........................

Problem this time................the people he fought were not LAMBS, BUT LIONS...............and the Arab League got their ASSES HANDED TO THEM BY FREE MEN........................

TOUGH SHIT.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

*1948-1949*

*Husseini:*

*“I declare a Holy War!”*


with Abdel Nasser: President of Egypt.

  With UN recognition, Israel declares statehood. Arab League immediately declares Jihad (Holy War) against Israel. Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan immediately declare war on the new Jewish state and invade Israel.

Amin Al-Husseini[xliii] : “I declare a Holy War, My Muslim Brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!”


Muslim Nazi Troops of Amin Al Husseini. Holy War. 1943.

Arafat Speaks On Amin Al-Husseini

*“I was one of his troops.”*

Yasser Arafat was interviewed by _Al Sharq Al Awsat_ (London Arabic Daily) and reprinted in Palestinian daily _Al Quds_ on August 2, 2002:

“We are not Afghanistan… We are the mighty people.  Were they able to replace our hero Hajj Amin Al-Husseini?… There were a number of attempts to get rid of Hajj Amin, when they considered him an ally of the Nazis. But even so, he lived in Cairo, and participated in the 1948 War and I was one of his troops.”


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## Challenger (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Amin Al Husseini Father of Jihad Al Qaeda Arafat Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood
> 
> Enjoy the history of the Grand Mufti..................Hitler's best buddy and founder of the Muslim brotherhood............with his roots of the Armenian Genocide......................
> 
> Great roots here for the current day Jihadist scum bags.



Yaay! eagle1462010 is finally revealed as a Roudy clone/sock. Citing the same BS from the long discredited "Tell the Children the Truth" website as Rude-eee's been touting for months.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 9, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


The Jews in the West Bank were expelled by Jordan. Palestine had no army and had no means to expel anyone.

The Zionists promised to give the West Bank to Jordan if they did not attack Israel during the 1948 war. Jordan did not attack inside the area allotted to the Jewish state in the partition plan.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Amin Al Husseini Father of Jihad Al Qaeda Arafat Saddam Hussein and the Muslim Brotherhood
> ...


The site backs it up with links...........which links are wrong...............

Should I go to the history channel and show the real deal with the Grand Mufti and the Armenian Genocide.................

Currently we have a Genocide by Radical Islam...........not just against the Christians and other ethnic groups, but even those of Islam............but their Islam isn't the right form of Islam................so they must die to as infidels..............................

The entire Middle East is in flames........................by Radical Islam against everyone..................in a free for all DEATH MATCH..................

and here we are damning the country that stands against it.........................saying they are the problem..............as those around them continually attack them.............and then Bitching when they get smacked down.............

Too bad Mr. Apologist.


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## Challenger (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Advertisement
> 
> For Meir Kahlon, chairman of the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries, this is a historic week. For the first time, Israel has officially recognized his suffering, that of his family and some 850,000 other Jews who left, were expelled or fled from their homes in Syria, Libya, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab and Muslim countries around the time of the founding of the State of Israel and afterwards.
> 
> ...



Yes, how nice. Pity the Zionists don't care as much for Holocaust survivors.

50 000 Holocaust survivors in Israel living in poverty report finds - National News - Jerusalem Post

Also omits to mention the efforts of the Zionists to get those populations to leave as most Arab countries initially sought to prevent their Jewish populations leaving and only retaliated after the extent of the Zionist ethnic cleansing and other crimes against humanity became more widely known.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> *1948-1949*
> 
> *Husseini:*
> 
> ...


Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Jordan immediately declare war on the new Jewish state and invade Israel.​
Actually, all neutral accounts of the war say that they invaded, or entered, Palestine.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)




----------



## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

The O/P addressed the very real fact that some Jews *the non-Zionists) openly admit that the Israeli government is practicing apartheid-like methods on Palestinians......PERIOD!!

Right wingers on here were sent scrambling for sources to refute the criticism of these Jewish people's opposition to the current Israeli government.....based LESS on "love" of Israel, and much MORE on simple, rabid hatred of Obama.....PERIOD!!!

On another thread, I stated that Israel's ONLY remaining support comes from the U.S. based on the strong lobbying efforts that Israel makes to our government......while the rest of the world is now turning against Israel stating ENOUGH is enough........and since Israel is now meddling in our own internal governmental affairs (some call it extortion,) U.S. support of that country (except for right wingers') may be waning.


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## Challenger (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Have you followed the links and citations on that site? It's compiled by a Serbian Muslim hater and has no credibility outside of the usual crowd of Fascists and Right-wing whack-jobs.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The O/P addressed the very real fact that some Jews *the non-Zionists) openly admit that the Israeli government is practicing apartheid-like methods on Palestinians......PERIOD!!
> 
> Right wingers on here were sent scrambling for sources to refute the criticism of these Jewish people's opposition to the current Israeli government.....based LESS on "love" of Israel, and much MORE on simple, rabid hatred of Obama.....PERIOD!!!
> 
> On another thread, I stated that Israel's ONLY remaining support comes from the U.S. based on the strong lobbying efforts that Israel makes to our government......while the rest of the world is now turning against Israel stating ENOUGH is enough........and since Israel is now meddling in our own internal governmental affairs (some call it extortion,) U.S. support of that country (except for right wingers') may be waning.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


>



Beagle, what is your point?????

That the Mufti (of Jerusalem, by the way....at one time you stupidly tried to pawn him off as Iranian) sided with the Nazi is NOT news......the enemy of my enemy is my friend, syndrome......
Your own clip from a newspaper shows the Arab vs. Jewish population is DOUBLE and that the welching Brits screwed Palestinians from their original promise of a state.
Read your own stuff before posting and trying to stupidly distort.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > The O/P addressed the very real fact that some Jews *the non-Zionists) openly admit that the Israeli government is practicing apartheid-like methods on Palestinians......PERIOD!!
> ...




THEN, if you stand for "self-preservation".....you MUST side with our own Native American population and possibly give up your own home because, you may be occupying TRIBAL LAND....


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Jews................Genocide...............

Ring a bell, did you pass History classes when you were young.............or did you just skip that class............well you are Classless...............


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


Obviously you are wrong as usual.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

Double checking the OP...............The ORIGINS OF THE PALESTINIAN JEWISH CONFLICT..............

Did you forget your own OP Gnat.................

The Grand Mufti and the history of that evil bastard are at the Heart of the OP..................


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## Carla_Danger (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...





I think it was very generous that the Native American Council decided to grant us amnesty.  


Native American Council Offers Amnesty to 220 Million Undocumented Whites - The Daily Currant


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

Name a place on earth that boundaries were not the result of Warfare...........

Before we came here the indians were killing each other for hunting grounds.............

It is the nature of the human race to conquer each other over time...........Which is reality.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Double checking the OP...............The ORIGINS OF THE PALESTINIAN JEWISH CONFLICT..............
> 
> Did you forget your own OP Gnat.................




No, dingbat.....go back and re-read (although since you don't have comprehension, re-reading may be a waste of time)...The article was written by NON-Zionist Jews...


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## pbel (Apr 9, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


Show links to support your insanity... They gave back 30 times the size? Is that the Sinai desert wing ding?


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Before we came here the indians were killing each other for hunting grounds.............




Again, learning your history from Dell Comic books?

The intertribal fighting began after whites placed Native on enclaves, we now call reservations in the US, reserves in Canada and Rancherias in Mexico/California..


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Before we came here the indians were killing each other for hunting grounds.............
> ...





nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Before we came here the indians were killing each other for hunting grounds.............
> ...


I guess in your feeble mind they didn't kill each other before we were ever here............didn't have enemies among their own kind or different tribes.............

LOL

I'm the one reading comics............LOL

and the Grand Mufti who created the Arab League has nothing to do with the origin of the current conflict.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

Carla_Danger said:


> I think it was very generous that the Native American Council decided to grant us amnesty.
> 
> 
> Native American Council Offers Amnesty to 220 Million Undocumented Whites - The Daily Currant




The tongue-n-cheek NAC article is sardonically funny but with a twist of truth......an excerpt....

The elders ultimately decided to extend a pathway to citizenship for those [Europeans] without criminal backgrounds.

"We are prepared to offer White people the option of staying on this continent legally and applying for citizenship," explains Chief Wamsutta of the Wampanoag nation. "In return, they must pay any outstanding taxes and give back the land stolen from our ancestors.

"Any white person with a criminal record, however, will be deported in the next 90 days back to their ancestral homeland. Rush Limbaugh will be going to Germany. Justin Bieber will depart for Canada. And the entire cast of Jersey Shore will be returning to Italy."

Despite their numerical superiority, many scholars question the legality of the European settlement, as it was founded on a mixture of unauthorized immigration, war and genocide.

"Why can't we just deport all of the Whites back to Europe?" asks Ité Omáǧažu of the Lakota people. "They're just a drain on our economy anyway.

"I can't believe we're just going to let them pay a fine. They should get to the back of the line like everybody else -- *behind the Mexicans*."


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> I guess in your feeble mind they didn't kill each other before we were ever here............didn't have enemies among their own kind or different tribes.............



No, imbecile.....intertribal warfare was very, very rare because of the vastness of hunting and grazing areas....ONLY when cornered by whites into reservations And the so-called "scalping" of enemies was a practice introduced by the French to ensure that their Indian allies did not duplicate their kills.

BUT, this thread is about non-Zionist Jews and Palestinians' subjection to apartheid methods from Israel....lets stick to that.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> *Estimated Population of Palestine 1870-1946*
> 
> Arabs (%)  Jews (%)  Total
> 1870  367,224 (98%)  7,000 (2%)  375,000
> ...



Here's a better source:

Jewish Non-Jewish Population of Israel Palestine 1517-Present Jewish Virtual Library

But even using YOUR list above, which of course isn't linked, the arab number grew from 542K to 763K in LESS THAN TEN YEARS, from 1920 to 1930.  It also doubled from 1912 to 1940, which would not be possible without massive arab immigration, so thanks for proving my point, idiot chimp.  Even high birthrates could not account for such large pop increases, thanks so much.  Fucking idiot, next time, read your own post, dimwit.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

Challenger said:


> The native Arabs went to war to stop the Zionist ethnic cleansing and the hostilities never ended. In 1967 the Zionists waged an aggressive war to steal yet more territory and the war went on. Remember Nazi Germany conquered most of Europe and a huge chunk of the USSR at one point, but eventually lost it all. The war is not over yet.



Sure c-nt, that's why there were arab massacres of jews in the fucking 1800s...and why dogshit like this will never answer why the arab muslims have never tolerated the sovereignty of any other group in the mideast - ever.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Jewish people don't  control the media, Zionists do.



Uh, yeah that makes sense, idiot.  I am realizing you are rather unintelligent.



> Returning desert is no big sacrifice .



Gaza is a desert?  South lebanon is a desert?  This retarded asshole is just about ignored.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Yes, how nice. Pity the Zionists don't care as much for Holocaust survivors.
> 
> 50 000 Holocaust survivors in Israel living in poverty report finds - National News - Jerusalem Post
> 
> Also omits to mention the efforts of the Zionists to get those populations to leave as most Arab countries initially sought to prevent their Jewish populations leaving and only retaliated after the extent of the Zionist ethnic cleansing and other crimes against humanity became more widely known.



Nice deflection try, idiot asshole.  Why did the arab muslim nations ethnically cleanse their jews?  Why did egypt, iraq and libya steal all of their jewish populations' homes and belongings?


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> The intertribal fighting began after whites placed Native on enclaves, we now call reservations in the US, reserves in Canada and Rancherias in Mexico/California..



And the arab muslims slaughtered the civilizations in the mideast and africa before them.  When are the arab muslims going to move back to saudi arabia, asshole?


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

What the eternal idiot, RhodesKill, is trying to convince other posters is that Palestinians in Palestine are the usurpers, and all those European Jews (that moved into the area, formed Israel AND kicked out of their homes hundred of thousands of Arabs)......it is THOSE Jews that simply had taken a "leave of absence" from the area and that they were the rightful owners of that land......

Makes sense? ONLY in the twisted, dumb, hate-filled, profane, moronic, screwed up minds of right wingers.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess in your feeble mind they didn't kill each other before we were ever here............didn't have enemies among their own kind or different tribes.............
> ...


Whatever.  How many rockets have Hamas and Hezballah fired at Israel since 2000????????

Apartheid my ass.  It's a never ending War and you have picked the wrong side.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


 
How many rockets?.......Just a bit less than the Palestinians homes that the Israelis have bulldozed.......and YES, apartheid (including your ass) as confirmed by a good portion of the world's countries.


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## pbel (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


History has proved you wrong!


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


In other words no answer........................

Your just ticked that these rockets are ineffective over all...........even after firing 10's of thousands of them at Israel.

If my neighbor fires rockets and missiles at my home................I think I'd be ready to kill his ass as well.................IT'S ALL STOLEN BS....................The Palestinians are lucky Israel is civilized.......or none of them would be left alive to fire more rockets.............

Of course if Israel ever loses...............the arabs will kill every last man, woman, and child.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

*Beagle*, the only side I've picked is the side of justice. The military prowess (mostly with U.S. support and funds) of Israel does not, in modern times, entitle a country to basically enslave (again, apartheid) another ethnic group....thta is no longer tolerable !!!

..and before you go back to the trite excuse, "the Palestinians started it," 
bear in mind that the current Israeli leadership, thrives on fear mongering to maintain its heel on common Israeli citizens, but the reality of the oppression is leaking out to the entire world, and Israel is becoming a piraya, slowly and voraciously displacing and corralling another ethnic group into reservations.....

Blood will continue to spill from both sides until Palestine is established a sovereign state.....and Natanyahu must be gone.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


 

"In other words, no answer"????? Yes, I admit I don't have a count of how many rockets were fired on Israel......and I'm sure you can find a Zionist source to "enlighten" us all as to the exact count.

Yes, Israel is a "civilized" country....and the vast majority of its citizens are decent people...BUT, Israel's leadership is far from civilized...maintaining its power through fear and constantly crying out that they're the victims.......The country's mighty armed forces BELIES the victim status, and they can't treat others the way they have and expect the rest of the world (except for you dolts) to condone her actions.

Bottom line is that you right wingers DO NOT really have love for Israel....its more based on your hatred of Obama that spurs you to be constantly contrary.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


I didn't like the dang region and Radical Islam long before Obama was even a bump on the radar................

You are nothing more than a apologist for Hamas, Hezballah, the Muslim brotherhood and the rest of the Radical scum that control these regions of oppression as you say.............They are why the War will never end, and they are the reason places like Gaza are the miserable shit holes they are today..............They use these people as cannon fodder...................fire from civilian buildings to ensure civilian casualties..................

And all of them have vowed to destroy Israel.

There isn't any damned thing you can say to change that.................And Israel will not roll over and let them destroy them...............So the Pali's have a choice....................get rid of the Radical elements there or continue to die because of them from time to time.


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## Phoenall (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...







 Then you will be able to link to these countries use of the term wont you ?


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> What the eternal idiot, RhodesKill, is trying to convince other posters is that Palestinians in Palestine are the usurpers, and all those European Jews (that moved into the area, formed Israel AND kicked out of their homes hundred of thousands of Arabs)......it is THOSE Jews that simply had taken a "leave of absence" from the area and that they were the rightful owners of that land......
> 
> Makes sense? ONLY in the twisted, dumb, hate-filled, profane, moronic, screwed up minds of right wingers.



So the asshole is not even going to ATTEMPT to address that most of the arab muslims in the region immigrated from neighboring arab muslim countries, not surprising there.  How can one defend the indefensible?

All the idiot can do is repeat the same crap: "jews stole the land."  No facts support  the moron, the census data the moron posted undermines its own claims, but the moron keeps repeating the same lie over and over.

As I've repeatedly said, this forum REALLY needs better pro-arab posters; the ones here are complete garbage, just painfully stupid.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Whatever.  How many rockets have Hamas and Hezballah fired at Israel since 2000????????
> 
> Apartheid my ass.  It's a never ending War and you have picked the wrong side.



Stupid people usually do.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Blood will continue to spill from both sides until Palestine is established a sovereign state.....and Natanyahu must be gone.



Riiiight c-nt imbecile, the way peace was brought about when israel left lebanon, and gaza....suuuuure.

Has your IQ ever tested over 75?  Even accidentally?


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

*RoadKill* is.....if anything else, both an idiot, but also funny (and profane...but expected.

In other words, this idiot is first starting out with the premise that NO ONE lived in Palestine.....

Second, Arabs moved in from other places....but they're the usurpers...

Third, European Jews moved in (thank the Brits) and established Israel....but they are the rightful owners....

Do I have your stupid scenario pretty well covered???


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## montelatici (Apr 9, 2015)

You certainly have Roadkill dead to rights, but my question is are you Sicilian or Manx?  Given the Trinacria.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

montelatici said:


> You certainly have Roadkill dead to rights, but my question is are you Sicilian or Manx?  Given the Trinacria.


 
True blooded son of Sicilians, my friend.....(but of course, American....)


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


 
A few responses to the litany of your accusations......

First, only an idiot like you would "conclude" that criticism of Israel places one directly to be a supporter of Hamas Hexbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood.......However, such is expected from morons...

Second, accusing that radical Palestinians send rockets into Israel from populated areas.....is bot condonable...HOWEVER, if you've ever visited the area you'd see that the freking place is so damn crowded, that a radical could hardly find an empty lot from where a rocket could be launched.

Third, when you accuse of EVERY Palestinian of being murderous, I have pictures of 3 and 4 years old Palestinians with arms blown off....perhaps precisely because the Israeli's own rockets considered them enemy combatants.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> In other words, this idiot is first starting out with the premise that NO ONE lived in Palestine.....



 Now you're just a lying piece of worthless shit, as expected.  You got caught in a lie, and now you're trying to get out of it - but that's not gonna happen, you fucking turd.



> Second, Arabs moved in from other places....but they're the usurpers...



As YOUR OWN list showed scumbag moron, they obviously DID immigrate from other countries.



> Third, European Jews moved in (thank the Brits) and established Israel....but they are the rightful owners....



#1-no one claimed that most jews did not come from other countries, scumbag, including the arab muslim ones they were ethnically cleansed from
#2-the jews bought most of the land from arab muslims, and the UN granted them a country
#3-why are jews not allowed to move somewhere, but mexicans and all of south america can move into the US?  You're a hypocrite, racist piece of stupid fucking garbage.  If you think you are helping the arab muslims with your unintelligent, moronic posts, you are not.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Second, accusing that radical Palestinians send rockets into Israel from populated areas.....is bot condonable...HOWEVER, if you've ever visited the area you'd see that the freking place is so damn crowded, that a radical could hardly find an empty lot from where a rocket could be launched.





Have you been to gaza in the last 20 years shit for brains?  Most of the rest of us have, and it is open, undeveloped fields, idiot.  You're as stupid as they come.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


I don't give a damn if it's crowded or open fields they fire from.................If they are firing at Israel then they are going to get hit back.

Whether or not they are effective with their fire is immaterial.   If you play with fire your going to get burned..............How about a novel idea...............Stop FIRING AT ISRAEL you IDIOT.

No one will make peace with them if they behave like animals and continually attack their neighbors.............and only in ISRAEL do people require ISRAEL TO PLAY NICE IN RETURN..............

If that happened to us here we'd wipe the floor with whoever fired at us..................and not a dang word would be said about it.................but if Israel does it...................It's wrong............

Tell your buddies to LEAVE GAZA and take their danged rockets with them..............and let the people there who aren't violent assholes to live a life of Peace.............because as long as the Radicals are there IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Tell your buddies to LEAVE GAZA and take their danged rockets with them..............and let the people there who aren't violent assholes to live a life of Peace.............because as long as the Radicals are there IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.
> ...


Whatever Gnat..............

They fire these weapons and they die..............That's the deal................too damned bad.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> #1-no one claimed that most jews did not come from other countries, scumbag, including the arab muslim ones they were ethnically cleansed from
> #*2-the jews bought most of the land from arab muslims, and the UN granted them a country*
> #3-why are jews not allowed to move somewhere, but mexicans and all of south america can move into the US? You're a hypocrite, racist piece of stupid fucking garbage. If you think you are helping the arab muslims with your unintelligent, moronic posts, you are not.



You get more and more profane......Try an enema, at the very least.......LOL

Here from the original article since you can't read and can only be profane (poor thing):

_What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. *Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).*

The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. *Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British.* The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years)

*In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world* view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people._


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> *They* *fire these weapons and they die*..............That's the deal................too damned bad.



Are you talking about the Palestinians......the Israelis...or both???


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > *They* *fire these weapons and they die*..............That's the deal................too damned bad.
> ...


You know who I was talking about............and people die on both sides of Wars................When the IDF went in to blow up those PEACEFUL TUNNELS they lost men.................as did the other side...............

They need to stop the rocket attacks from Gaza................or they will get hit again, and again, and again.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> You know who I was talking about............and people die on both sides of Wars................When the IDF went in to blow up those PEACEFUL TUNNELS they lost men.................as did the other side...............
> 
> They need to stop the rocket attacks from Gaza................or they will get hit again, and again, and again



Actually agree.....AND, the Israeli need to stop expanding into the Palestinian reservations AND allow them to establish their own state (but I believe that the current Israeli government will not allow a 2 state solution PRECISELY because they have plans to take MORE Palestinian land.)


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Here from the original article since you can't read and can only be profane (poor thing)...._*In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world* view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people._



Yes, link to a fucking POS blog as if it were the fucking King James bible...sorry douchebag, but that website has less credibility than the fucking Onion, which at least is entertaining.

*You still have yet to address the points totally crushing your bullshit:*

1-when Israel gave back south lebanon and gaza to the arabs, the arabs used those areas to stage terrorism and attacks against Israel, so land has NOTHING to do with this conflict

2-arab muslims do not tolerate the sovereignty of any other group in the middle east

3-arab muslims are ethnically cleansing out all minority groups out of the middle east

4-a large portion, if not a majority, of the arab muslims living in the west bank/gaza strip/Israel in 1930 were IMMIGRANTS from other arab muslim countries

Until you can address these FACTS, there is not a fucking word you can offer that is of interest to anyone else, idiot.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 9, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Actually agree.....AND, the Israeli need to stop expanding into the Palestinian reservations AND allow them to establish their own state (but I believe that the current Israeli government will not allow a 2 state solution PRECISELY because they have plans to take MORE Palestinian land.)



Israeli apartment building in the West bank is "forcing" the hamas animal filth to build tunnels from gaza?  Yeah, that makes sense.


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## nat4900 (Apr 9, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Israeli apartment building in the West bank is "forcing" the hamas animal filth to build tunnels from gaza? Yeah, that makes sense. You're a fucking idiot.




So, the enema hasn't helped???? Do you have a garden hose?


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## teddyearp (Apr 9, 2015)

Challenger said:


> The Zionist Israelis are indeed currently "winning", just like the Nazi Germans from 1939-42. The partition plan would have given 43% of the best land in Palestine to the minority immigrant Zionist colonists, while the native Palestinians would have been left with land mostly unfit for agriculture. The plan was fundamentaly unfair and yet you wonder why the natives opposed it. The native Arabs went to war to stop the Zionist ethnic cleansing and the hostilities never ended. In 1967 the Zionists waged an aggressive war to steal yet more territory and the war went on. Remember Nazi Germany conquered most of Europe and a huge chunk of the USSR at one point, but eventually lost it all. The war is not over yet.



You know what?  I am tired of arguing with you folks.  I could waste my time with a long and drawn out reply, but I will just stop and say this.  Your user name of "Challenger" should be changed to "Challenged".  As in mentally; or better, like the rest of the pro-pals, you have such a bad case of rectal cranial insertion problem that all you see is the BS.

Quick snippet: To compare the failed Nazi attempt of conquest that lasted at most (according to your own post) 3 years to the struggle that Israel has been going through (and still winning) for the last almost 70 years just shows how Challenged you are.


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## montelatici (Apr 9, 2015)

Some colonial projects succeed, some do not.


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## teddyearp (Apr 9, 2015)

My money's on this one succeeding.  After all, it's in all the books as doing so.


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## montelatici (Apr 9, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> My money's on this one succeeding.  After all, it's in all the books as doing so.



My money is on the opposite side.  Demographics rarely fail to determine the result.


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## montelatici (Apr 9, 2015)

Well, only time will tell.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

And the only way this one can succeed is for more arab muslims to migrate to Palestine illegally, say another 50 million or so.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

And the only way this one can succeed is for more arab muslims to migrate to Palestine illegally, say another 50 million or so.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

teddyearp said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > The Zionist Israelis are indeed currently "winning", just like the Nazi Germans from 1939-42. The partition plan would have given 43% of the best land in Palestine to the minority immigrant Zionist colonists, while the native Palestinians would have been left with land mostly unfit for agriculture. The plan was fundamentaly unfair and yet you wonder why the natives opposed it. The native Arabs went to war to stop the Zionist ethnic cleansing and the hostilities never ended. In 1967 the Zionists waged an aggressive war to steal yet more territory and the war went on. Remember Nazi Germany conquered most of Europe and a huge chunk of the USSR at one point, but eventually lost it all. The war is not over yet.
> ...



Just goes to show you need at least 1 superpower covering your arse. Nazi Germany took on all of modern industrialised Europe and it took 3 superpowers to beat her in almost 6 years of constant warfare. Zionist Isreal, in comparison, has had to mobilise to anything approaching that level only 4 times in 70 years and waged aggressive war on three of those occasions against disorganised and/or unprepared enemies. The rest of the time Israel has had to contend against an oppressed and fractured indigenous people, armed with a tiny, tiny, fraction of the weaponry Zionist Isreal possesses, defending it's right to exist. The fact they're still there fighting, after 70 years is a "victory" in itself.

Throw around as many insults as you like, it changes nothing, just demonstrates the fact you know deep down that I'm right, and that frightens you and your ilk. 

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


LOL

The Arab League that ATTACKED ISRAEL to begin with was a force from the entire Middle East.

In the 1967 War Egypt and Syria were massed on their borders and outnumbered the Israeli's 4 to one provided for them by the Russians................

and in 1971 Egypt started the attack again armed with Russian Equipment, and again outnumbering the Israeli's...............

On all occasions the Israeli's were outnumbered and Won the day.  Not only did they win, in the last Two, but they kicked the living hell out of them with fewer numbers.

Your distortion of history is typical.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



I find the "distorting of history" accusation amusing coming from someone who clearly toes the Zionist Hasbara line. Zionists have distorted history for decades until in a moment of hubris, complacency or just incompetance, the Government released *all* the 1948 archives to the public, allowing Historians to finally be able to get at the truth. It's no accident, they've not done so for the 1956, 1967, or 1973 wars. 

The truth then:

The neighbouring Arab forces invaded Palestine in 1948 ostensibly to prevent further ethnic cleansing by the Zionists. Abdullah of Jordan, had already made a deal with the Zionists to occupy Jerusalem and the Palestinian area subsequently known as the West Bank. Syria and Iraq invaded the northernmost area of the West bank more to prevent the Jordanians achieving their aims, than any intent to destroy the newly declared state. Lebanon was sympathetic to the Zionists at the time and only made a token gesture of "attacking" before subsequently pulling back and taking no further part in any operations. Syrian and Egyptian forces did cross into areas that the Zionists declared sovereignty over, but lacked the equipment and ammunition (not to mention training and experience) needed to have any effect. If I recall correctly, the Syrians were held back by two home made artillery pieces and the egyptians were stopped by battle hardened Jewish veterans of Stalingrad, defending one of their settlements. The egyptian force contained various contingents of "volunteers" from other Muslim countries but they were less than useless and more a burden than a help to the Egyptians. 

The Arabs were under an arms embargo and were unable to resupply their forces, never having expected to have to actually go to war. The Zionists, while under the same embargo, had been preparing for war for years beforehand and basically ignored the embargo, import modern weapons and equipment via the Soviets and their satellite regimes in Eastern Europe after the british had left. In 1948 the Zionist forces outnumbered the combined arab forces in theatre, and once properly equipped, were easily able to launch an aggressive war of conquest.

I don't have time now to debunk the other conflicts but really, you need to read some objective and scholarly works and not just regurgitate Zionist hasbara historiography. Oh, did you mean 1973, when you wrote 1971?


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


DEBUNK.................LOL

You mean LIE your little ass off.


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## nat4900 (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> The Arab League that ATTACKED ISRAEL to begin with was a force from the entire Middle East.
> 
> In the 1967 War Egypt and Syria were massed on their borders and outnumbered the Israeli's 4 to one provided for them by the Russians................
> 
> ...



Well, you're partially correct, Beagle

But a factor is now a bit different then 40 years ago....Our own Gulf wars have given Islamic forces plenty of "practice" on warfare, and the tons and tons of US weaponry that were left behind...... (because they were too "expensive" to ship back home and the US military complex needed to gauge taxpayers some more).....have now made their way into virtually every country in that region.......

So, since we....the US.....the most powerful of all armed forces.....haven't necessarily "won" since we engaged in that area (and I hope you're not saying that the IDF is better than our military)
the scenario in that part of the world is much different than the 1960s.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Throw around as many insults as you like, it changes nothing, just demonstrates the fact you know deep down that I'm right, and that frightens you and your ilk.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > The Arab League that ATTACKED ISRAEL to begin with was a force from the entire Middle East.
> ...


And who made the decision to leave the military hardware behind????????

Maybe you should have sent him a Memo telling him it's a bad idea.................along with pulling out completely while the issue wasn't over yet.................

You talk about WINNING...................About I'm saying the IDF is better than our military..............where the Hell did you find that WINGER...............are the voices in your head telling you to say that..............

WHO IS WINNING IN THE MIDDLE EAST?????????????????

Because the only thing I see is DEATH ACROSS THE ENTIRE REGION............expanding into Africa..............like an Infectious Disease.........................

FREEDOM CERTAINLY ISN'T WINNING.................

The Only Winners are the Undertakers...............The Middle East and Africa are in FLAMES.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


Aka your twisted anti Semite sites are the truth..................LOL.................

Hardly.


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## nat4900 (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> And who made the decision to leave the military hardware behind????????
> 
> Maybe you should have sent him a Memo telling him it's a bad idea.................along with pulling out completely while the issue wasn't over yet.................
> 
> You talk about WINNING...................About I'm saying the IDF is better than our military..............where the Hell did you find that WINGER...............are the voices in your head telling you to say that..............



Calm down, there, Beagle (those neurosis meds aren't working?)

NO, it was not a mistake to leave Iraq (we overstayed our welcome, to say the least)

YES, it was a mistake to leave tons of weaponry there (those war profiteers lobbyists are tough on congress)

All I was implying in my response above is that Israel is not facing the same kind of weak, disjointed, unprepared, "enemy" that she did 40-50 years ago......that is all.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Plan of partition - Summary of the UK Palestine Royal Commission Peel Commission report - League of Nations Non-UN document 30 November 1937 


In the Mufti's OWN WORDS...................STOLEN LAND IS A LIE!
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/da...-our-land”-vs-the-grand-mufti-of-jerusalem/2/


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## nat4900 (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> In the Mufti's OWN WORDS...................STOLEN LAND IS A LIE!
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/da...-our-land”-vs-the-grand-mufti-of-jerusalem/2/




Interesting....BUT you should read your own links (not just the title) before posting.....Here's the Mufti's own words......

_MUFTI: *A large part of these lands belong to absentee landlords who sold the land over the heads of their tenants, who were forcibly evicted.* The majority of these landlords were absentees who sold their land over the heads of their tenants. *Not Palestinians but Lebanese.* _


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## nat4900 (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> In the Mufti's OWN WORDS...................STOLEN LAND IS A LIE!
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/da...-our-land”-vs-the-grand-mufti-of-jerusalem/2/




BTW, that interview, dear Beagle, reminded me of another famous "land purchase" within our shores.......Manhattan.......Here's what REALLY happened there:

The biggest problem with the Manhattan purchase isn’t the price: It’s the identity of the sellers. The Dutch conducted their business with the Canarsee tribe who were actually based out of what is now Brooklyn.

The Canarsee probably would have taken anything in exchange for the use of Manhattan, as the island actually belonged to the Wappinger Confederacy, another group of Native Americans.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > In the Mufti's OWN WORDS...................STOLEN LAND IS A LIE!
> ...



Cherry picking the quotes.................Now put the lands OWNED BY JEWS in to perspective......................in his own words.........

I've already done so in other threads..............but please Cherry pick your data as you always do.......................

I provided the League of Nations report along with the Front Page quotes of the Mufti himself............Including the proposed deal before WWII..........including the payment of 2 Million Pounds to try and make a Peaceful solution to the region...........................Which fell on DEAF EARS.............................

The Arabs wanted it ALL INCLUDING LANDS THEY SOLD TO JEWS....................


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > In the Mufti's OWN WORDS...................STOLEN LAND IS A LIE!
> ...


By your OWN WORDS GNAT.........................

You told me to get back ON TOPIC.............and to STAY OFF THE INDIAN SITUATION...................

Is that another form of DO AS I SAY, AND NOT AS I DO............................

To your point previously................GET BACK ON TOPIC.................

Now to the Topic..................HOW MUCH LAND DID THE MUFTI SAY WAS OWNED BY JEWS??????????


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## nat4900 (Apr 10, 2015)

Aha, Beagle, you DON'T like the comparison of what happened in Palestine to what we did to  American Indians........

If you were to read the ORIGINAL article that started this thread, you'd see that the main disagreement by those Jews who wrote the article is that the clever Zionists place the land sold by NOT the inhabitants but by absentee Lebanese landlords, into ownership by the government.....which meant that NO PALESTINIAN ARAB could ever purchase it back for NO amount of money......


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Aha, Beagle, you DON'T like the comparison of what happened in Palestine to what we did to  American Indians........
> 
> If you were to read the ORIGINAL article that started this thread, you'd see that the main disagreement by those Jews who wrote the article is that the clever Zionists place the land sold by NOT the inhabitants but by absentee Lebanese landlords, into ownership by the government.....which meant that NO PALESTINIAN ARAB could ever purchase it back for NO amount of money......


No, I'm telling you to STFU as you told me to do earlier in the thread about bringing up the Indians..............

So, I'm giving you BLOWBACK on your own words................So.............just as you told me to STFU and get back on TOPIC.................

I'm returning the favor.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 The problem is that if Israel went to war like islam does then the war would have ended in 1949, and Israel would be in charge of it all.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 What ethnic cleansing would that be then, as evicting the enemy is not ethnic cleansing.


 The rest of your post is just neo Marxist fantasy without a shred of evidence to back it up.


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

The facts are well known. The land tax registries for Palestine showed that in 1943 more than 85% of the land was owned by the non-Jews.  This is from the Anglo-American Committee Report prepared for the U.S. State Department, the UK Foregin Office and the UN, prior to partition.



 

A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...






 What he means is he has to get his commisars permission to fabricate some story and then refuse to provide links to substantiate it.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 So that is why you throw around all the insults, because you know I AM RIGHT


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

montelatici said:


> The facts are well known. The land tax registries for Palestine showed that in 1943 more than 85% of the land was owned by the non-Jews.  This is from the Anglo-American Committee Report prepared for the U.S. State Department, the UK Foregin Office and the UN, prior to partition.
> 
> View attachment 39406
> 
> A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner






 Written by a committee so not a valid source of evidence. and the land tax shows the Jews paid more so had the larger amount of land................


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 They were illegal immigrants and it is allowed to evict illegal immigrants from your land


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Thank you for continuing to prove my point, 

"Ridicule as much as you like, it changes nothing, just demonstrates the fact you know deep down that I'm right, and that frightens you and your ilk.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The facts are well known. The land tax registries for Palestine showed that in 1943 more than 85% of the land was owned by the non-Jews.  This is from the Anglo-American Committee Report prepared for the U.S. State Department, the UK Foregin Office and the UN, prior to partition.
> ...



Still trolling.


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The facts are well known. The land tax registries for Palestine showed that in 1943 more than 85% of the land was owned by the non-Jews.  This is from the Anglo-American Committee Report prepared for the U.S. State Department, the UK Foregin Office and the UN, prior to partition.
> ...



Commissioned by the U.S. and UK governments as the absolute authority on the conditions in Palestine prior to partition.  The amount of acreage owned by the Jews and non-Jews is clearly stated.  Jews owned less than 15% of the land.  No getting around it.  Assessed tax value and acreage has nothing to do with amount of land and all to do with price paid for the land.  Since the Christians and Muslims had owned land for many generations the sales assessed value was much lower.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


Your sides point.

Tell a Lie Long enough and it becomes the truth.............................

Even if it is a Lie................

Your side wants the death of Israel..............and it's not about Land...............It's about Killing the Jews and nothing more..............

and since you can't win on the battlefield you want the Western Powers to do it for you......................

In your other War on Israel...........The War of Lies and Propaganda.  Nothing more.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > In the Mufti's OWN WORDS...................STOLEN LAND IS A LIE!
> ...


Excellent point!


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...




iRosie, is that you? You're posting in the exact same style....


The Jewish National fund did indeed buy land in Palestine, from absentee owners, some of whom had questionable title, but the last time I looked that amounted to about 5% of the total land. And when Jewish Europeans did buy the land they evicted the indigenous Palestinian tenant famillies who had lived and farmed there for centuries, usually without any form of compensation.

As for cherry picking, that whole article is cherry picked.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...



If Israel went to war in 1948 like the Muslims did in 1948, there wouldn't be an Israel Palestine forum!


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


Tell me..............quoting the Mufti about the land..................is Cherry Picking.................

LOL


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Evicting enemy civillians is a war crime and a crime against humanity.

The evidence is there for any honest, open-minded person to read, they just need to look beyond the Zionist historiography. 

Oh, and throw around as many insults as you like, it changes nothing, just demonstrates the fact you know deep down that I'm right, and that frightens you and your ilk.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



It is you, isn't it, iRosie?


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

The exact amount of land and who owned it is a well known fact.  The survey commissioned by the U.S. and the U.K. for the UN prior to, and to facilitate the partition provides details of land ownership taken from the land tax registries.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


I'm no irosie..................

I have posted as eagle146 for the entire time on these boards........................

Now........................what agreement in the region would you accept to end the death.................

I already know your real answer...........even though you will not say it.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


Good post. The 1948 war was called the war that wasn't.

*Lebanon *had a tiny army. Basically all they did was defend its border.

*Syria *did very little more.

*Jordan* (who also commanded Iraqi forces) was promised the West Bank if it did not attack Israel. This was the only army of consequence but it only took control of the territory it was promised.

*Egypt* did manage to control a small piece of Palestine that became the Gaza Strip.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Aah, so that's why you fabricate everything and never provide links when asked. There we have it.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

montelatici said:


> The exact amount of land and who owned it is a well known fact.  The survey commissioned by the U.S. and the U.K. for the UN prior to, and to facilitate the partition provides details of land ownership taken from the land tax registries.
> View attachment 39410


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



I only ever retaliate....


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > The exact amount of land and who owned it is a well known fact.  The survey commissioned by the U.S. and the U.K. for the UN prior to, and to facilitate the partition provides details of land ownership taken from the land tax registries.
> > View attachment 39410



He provided a link, can you not see it.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


post 246 doesn't have a link.


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Aah I see, its an image attachment, the link to which is in #231


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...




The Link has always been provided it is to the Berman Jewish Policy Archive (NYU and Wagnee Univ) .  As with an normal academic archive you have access to the pdf for download and you go to the page number indicated to get to the table that was posted.  

A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner


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## rhodescholar (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> I find the "distorting of history" accusation ...Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.



I find conversations with mentally ill fucking idiot assholes like you boring.

The arab armies in '48 came to murder all of the jews and throw them into the sea, which Nasser promised to do in '67.  Each time the jews were massively outnumbered and in '67 and '73, outgunned having been outfitted with the latest russian equipment.

Repeating the same lies over and over proves your mental illness.


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > I find the "distorting of history" accusation ...Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
> ...



The Arab armies came to prevent the expulsion of the indigenous Muslims and Christians by the European colonists.  The Europeans (as in almost every other colonial enterprise) were better equipped, better trained and better armed than the native people or their allies, nothing new.

"the actual text of Plan D leaves very little doubt as to the intentions of Ben Gurion and his friends. It spoke of “operations against enemy population centres located inside or near our defensive system in order to prevent them from being used as bases by an active armed force. These operations can be carried out in the following manner: either by destroying villages (by setting fire to them, by blowing them up, and by planting mines in their debris), and especially of those population centres which are difficult to control continuously; or by mounting combing and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village, conducting a search inside it. In case of resistance, the armed force must be wiped out and the population expelled outside the borders of the state"

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition


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## Challenger (Apr 10, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > I find the "distorting of history" accusation ...Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
> ...



Repeating the same lies over and over proves *your* mental illness, that and the Tourette's of course.


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## nat4900 (Apr 10, 2015)

Look good, sane (and less biased) folks....we are not going to convince rabid right wingers to ever employ enough objectivity to educate themselves.

However, the facts are what they are (regardless of the revisionists' history):

1. Many Jews are speaking out against the Israeli, fear-mongering governments who know that their main source of power is to keep the Isareli populace in constant fear.

2. Although there is sectarian violence among Muslims, the ONE thing that unites them is the hatred of Israel for her insatiable thirst to subjugate Palestinians.

3. The entire world (except for a segment of our own, right wing cadre) has come to realize that Israel is NOT the eternal victim, but, instead the blatant aggressor when objectively reviewing that country's apartheid-like policies reagrding Palestinians.

So, it is just a matter of time, demographics, and morality until Israel will have to face the stark reality that to reject a two-state solution with Palestine as a sovereign entity, is slow, but inevitable suicide.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 Then why don't you stop before you are censored


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 You really, really, really need to learn what AD HOC means Abdul before showing the world just how ignorant you are


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

You should learn what ad-hoc means and learn that it is irrelevant to the discussion before making a fool of yourself.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...







 Is it or is it a red herring. You see the land belonged to arab muslims who sold it to the Jews as proven by the Grand Mufti. The tenants had no say in the matter and tried to squatt on land they had no rights to. They could have paid the asking price of course and bought the land but they were too greedy to do so.


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## Phoenall (Apr 10, 2015)

montelatici said:


> You should learn what ad-hoc means and learn that it is irrelevant to the discussion before making a fool of yourself.






 NOT WHEN IT IS IN THE TITLE OF THE COMMITTEE THAT COMPLIED THE REPORT

 You show your complete ignorance again.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 10, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Repeating the same lies over and over proves *your* mental illness, that and the Tourette's of course.



Except c-nts like you are unable to prove any of my posts wrong, or the following points are wrong:

1-when Israel gave back south lebanon and gaza to the arabs, the arabs used those areas to stage terrorism and attacks against Israel, so land has NOTHING to do with this conflict

2-arab muslims do not tolerate the sovereignty of any other group in the middle east

3-arab muslims are ethnically cleansing out all minority groups out of the middle east

4-a large portion, if not a majority, of the arab muslims living in the west bank/gaza strip/Israel in 1930 were IMMIGRANTS from other arab muslim countries


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > You should learn what ad-hoc means and learn that it is irrelevant to the discussion before making a fool of yourself.
> ...



Why do you insist on making a fool of yourself?  Stop phoenalling, didn't you learn your lesson on that other forum.

Ad hoc in Latin means "formed for a specific purpose, the committee was, in fact, formed for a specific purpose:

1. To examine political, economic and social conditions in Palestine as they bear upon the problem of Jewish immigration and settlement therein and the well-being of the peoples now living therein.

2. To examine the position of the Jews in those countries in Europe where they have been the victims of Nazi and Fascist persecution, and the practical measures taken or contemplated to be taken in those countries to enable them to live free from discrimination and oppression and to make estimates of those who wish or will be impelled by their conditions to migrate to Palestine or other countries outside Europe.

3. To hear the views of competent witnesses and to consult representative Arabs and Jews on the problems of Palestine as such problems are affected by conditions subject to examination under paragraphs 1 and 2 above and by other relevant facts and circumstances, and to make recommendations to His Majesty's Government and the Government of the United States for ad interim handling of these problems as well as for their permanent solution.

4. To make such other recommendations to His Majesty's Government and the Government of the United States as may be necessary to meet the immediate needs arising from conditions subject to examination under paragraph 2 above, by remedial action in the European countries in question or by the provision of facilities for emigration to and settlement in countries outside Europe.

Avalon Project - Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry - Preface


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## montelatici (Apr 10, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Repeating the same lies over and over proves *your* mental illness, that and the Tourette's of course.
> ...



Setting aside this strange construct which purports that giving back stolen property is somehow a sign of generosity, number 4. can be proven false indisputably:

*"59. The conclusion is that Arab illegal immigration for the purposes of permanent settlement is insignificant."*

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 212, para. 59

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner

Conversely:

"* It follows that the Jewish population may now include between 50,000 and 60,000 illegal immigrants* who have
settled in Palestine at any time since 1920 when the first Immigration Ordinance was enacted. The number of Jewish illegal
immigrants recorded during 1945 is 370."

A Survey of Palestine Vol 1, page 210, para. 54

A Survey of Palestine Volume 1 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner


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## Phoenall (Apr 11, 2015)

montelatici said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 How can the Jews be illegal immigrants Abdul when INTERNATIONAL LAW says they are invited and full citizens.


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## Challenger (Apr 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > rhodescholar said:
> ...



It says no such thing. Phoney's trolling again.


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## Phoenall (Apr 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







MANDATE FOR PALESTINE which became International law invites the Jews to migrate. 

Want to argue with the ICJ on that matter ?


 And by the way you are the one TROLLING and will be reported every time for it.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> It says no such thing. Phoney's trolling again.



Jews are allowed to move to other places, just like the hundreds of thousands of arabs who moved to Israel during the early 1900s.  Sorry racist scumbag, but that's life, deal with it.


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## Challenger (Apr 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Show me the actual invitation to migrate. I'll even give you a link. The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate


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## Phoenall (Apr 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 Why cant you read and understand 1922 English


*ART. 6.*
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced,* shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.*



*ART. 7.*
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. *There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.*


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## Challenger (Apr 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Not a sign of any invitation to migrate in either article. Try again.


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## Phoenall (Apr 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 So saying SHALL *facilitate Jewish immigration.*    Is not inviting the Jews to migrate.

 Try going for remedial English lessons


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 12, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


*facilitate 
simplify process:​*to make something easy or easier to do​
I don't see anything in there that looks like an invitation.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Show me the actual invitation to migrate. I'll even give you a link. The Avalon Project The Palestine Mandate



Sure, as soon as you show the invites for arab muslims to move to africa, asia and the philippines.

For that matter, show us the invite for muslims to move to the US or anywhere in the West.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Not a sign of any invitation to migrate in either article. Try again.



"*shall facilitate Jewish immigration *under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, *close settlement by Jews on the land, *including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes."

Seems pretty clear to me, dimwit.


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## bodecea (Apr 12, 2015)

montelatici said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it was too much to read......???
> ...


Like Manifest Destiny.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 12, 2015)

bodecea said:


> Like Manifest Destiny.



Absolutely, like the great return of the monarch butterflies to their ancestral homeland.


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## nat4900 (Apr 12, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Absolutely, like the great return of the monarch butterflies to their ancestral homeland.



Monarch butterflies decline migration may disappear

MEXICO CITY (AP) — The number of Monarch butterflies wintering in Mexico plunged this year to its lowest level since studies began in 1993, leading experts to announce Wednesday that the insects' annual migration from the United States and Canada is* in danger of disappearing*.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 12, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Monarch butterflies decline migration may disappear
> 
> MEXICO CITY (AP) — The number of Monarch butterflies wintering in Mexico plunged this year to its lowest level since studies began in 1993, leading experts to announce Wednesday that the insects' annual migration from the United States and Canada is* in danger of disappearing*.



Too bad for the arabs the jews won't disappear like all of the other dozens, if not hundreds, of civilizations the arabs have destroyed over the past 1,400 years, or are ethnically cleansing out of the mideast currently.  Just ask the coptics, maronites, yazidis, bahai, azeri, chaldeans, maneachans, and so many others.


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## nat4900 (Apr 12, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Too bad for the arabs the jews won't disappear like all of the other dozens, if not hundreds, of civilizations the arabs have destroyed over the past 1,400 years, or are ethnically cleansing out of the mideast currently. Just ask the coptics, maronites, yazidis, bahai, azeri, chaldeans, maneachans, and so many others.



Whether you know it or not, you're funny and entertaining. Thank You.


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## theliq (Apr 12, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Monarch butterflies decline migration may disappear
> ...


YOU FORGOT TO MENTION ALL THE CIVILIZATIONS THE JEWS WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH......THE MOABITES,THE CANAANITES,THE PHILISINES,THEY TRIED THE PALESTINIANS>>>BUT FAILED.

By the way the civilizations YOU MENTIONED....still have thriving communities to day.....which makes your argument pretty Flacid.

I note that you pro Jewish lobby hardly ever mention what the GERMANS,CATHOLICS ETC., DID TO THE JEWS............??????WHY IS THAT...Please Explain.

theliq


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## theliq (Apr 12, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad for the arabs the jews won't disappear like all of the other dozens, if not hundreds, of civilizations the arabs have destroyed over the past 1,400 years, or are ethnically cleansing out of the mideast currently. Just ask the coptics, maronites, yazidis, bahai, azeri, chaldeans, maneachans, and so many others.
> ...


He's not funny but he is a JOKE..steve


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## theliq (Apr 12, 2015)

Challenger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


Well there is the same ARROGANCE with the ZIONIST SCURGE,as there was with the NAZIS...and the Zionists try to desensitize people about the FINE PALESTINIANS,in the same way the NAZIS did to the Jews......Please note I have NOT paired Jews and ZIONIST TRASH as they are both very different types of people....Say NO TO ZIONISM.

I'm changing the "Teddyearp" monika to TEADDY TWERP because he is a Rabid Zionista........steve...and talks Shit most of the time


Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Of course I can.  But my question is, why do you insist on making a fool of yourself?  It's as if you just can't help it.
> ...


The State of Israel HAS NEVER BEEN RATIFIED BY THE US SECURITY COUNCIL>>>>>>>THUS DEEMING ISRAEL ILLEGAL......FACT....YOU ARE BUT ILLEGAL SQUATTERS.....FACT.I'm theliq,all knowing LIQ...ever living,ever faithful,ever sure.


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Facilitate means "put no obstacle in the way of" or "make it easier" there is no implied invitation, although Zionists prefer to interpret the word as an invitation as it gives them  a fig leaf of legitimacy. From  Balfour until the rise of the Nazis a paltry 300-400,000 assorted Jewish Zionists migrated to Palestine, out of a total world Jewish population of 15,000,000, that's roughly 0.03% of the world's Jewish population. 99.97% apparently never got an "invitation", or if they did, declined the offer.


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## Linkiloo (Apr 13, 2015)

theliq said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


If they "tried" to wipe out the palestinians, they failed miserably considering that the Palestinian population is exploding. In fact there are no parallels between the Nazis and the Israelis and any claim that there are, only serves to cheapen the murderous acts of the nazis. Please keep things in persepctive. No doubt Israel has made some bad decisions, but then so have the palestinian leadership.


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## Linkiloo (Apr 13, 2015)

theliq said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


 Who is the zionist scurge or trash, which you write in capitals? I believe in Israel's right to exist. Does that make me zionist trash?


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


> theliq said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...



Depends on how you'd like israel to exist, as an occuper, agressor, oppressor, herrenvolk state  or an inclusive, western-style, democracy that gives equal rights for all it's citizens regardless of their religion or ethnicity, including allowing a right of return to all those citizens ethically cleansed in 1948.


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## Linkiloo (Apr 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > theliq said:
> ...


 Sounds like being a zionist for you means accepting that the Jewish state is not Jewish going forward? Nope, I don't agree with that. I hope for a two state solution with land swaps but no right of return. I think the Jews understandably want their Jewish state, as do the Palestinians. So am I zionist trash or should I say ZIONIST TRASH?


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Linkiloo said:
> ...



I didn't say that. Why can't Israel be a secular state, it works reasonably well in America?


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## Linkiloo (Apr 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


 Because it hasn't worked well anywhere else in the middle east. Pretty obvious answer I'd say.


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## Phoenall (Apr 13, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 Of course you don't as that would destroy your islamonazi propaganda that the Jews are illegal immigrants


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## Phoenall (Apr 13, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Not a sign of any invitation to migrate in either article. Try again.
> ...





 And to the majority of the worlds population as well. The Jews were invited to migrate and settle the land of Palestine. No where does it say the arab muslims were invited to migrate and settle the land


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## Phoenall (Apr 13, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > Like Manifest Destiny.
> ...






 And embodied in International law at the time


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## Phoenall (Apr 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 Why should it be secular, this works for every Islamic state ?


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## nat4900 (Apr 13, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Why should it be secular, this works for every Islamic state ?



True and an interesting question.....Which, in turn, raises another question:

Why, then, should Israel be treated by us (in support, intelligence sharing, and funds, etc.) any different than we treat  a Jordan or Algeria  or (dare I say) Iran?

As a country, we have never been too fond of any government that placed religious ideology before secular neutrality.


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## Phoenall (Apr 13, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Why should it be secular, this works for every Islamic state ?
> ...






 Because it allows the west a foothold in the M.E. in case of attack from Russia or China. Israel provides the west with realistically priced Pharmaceuticals and medical supplies when ever we need them. Israel shares its defence strategy and infrastructure with the west out of goodwill. What does islam share apart from aggression and terrorism............


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## nat4900 (Apr 13, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


> Challenger said:
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Where has it been tried in the Middle East? Why can't Isreal be the "shining light unto the nations" as the first example?


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## rhodescholar (Apr 13, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


> Because it hasn't worked well anywhere else in the middle east. Pretty obvious answer I'd say.



Linkiloo, notice how the scumbag focuses purely on Israel, demanding that Israel become secular, granting absolute democratic rights to all - but not a fucking peep on any of the 22 arab countries doing the same.  Hypocritical dogshit masquerading as a poster.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Where has it been tried in the Middle East? Why can't Isreal be the "shining light unto the nations" as the first example?



Why should it, imbecile?  

Why do you hate arab muslims so much that you dumb down your expectations of them?  Or do you see them as helpless, incapable trash unable to act in a civilized manner?


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> rhodescholar said:
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Didn't have to, it was their land, they were already there.


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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So you believe Russia and China are going to attack the ME and Israel is there to stop it? Admit it, Phoney, you've stopped taking your meds again haven't you? 

Russia's going to fight its way through Georgia, Azerbajan and Armenia, just to invade Iraq or Iran, and Turkey/NATO will just sit and watch, while Israel gallops out like a knight in shining armour to protect Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt? 

...or China is going to power it's way through Tajikistan, Pakistan or Afghanistan, just to invade Iran and or Iraq, while Israel gallops out like a knight in shining armour to protect Syria, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt?


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## Challenger (Apr 13, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
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> > Because it hasn't worked well anywhere else in the middle east. Pretty obvious answer I'd say.
> ...



I'll say it one more time, this forum is about Israel and Palestine and the conflict. that's why I post about it here. Seemples.


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## nat4900 (Apr 13, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> rhodescholar said:
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> > Absolutely, like the great return of the monarch butterflies to their ancestral homeland.
> ...


 

Well, at least *Challenger* understand my warped sense of humor..


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## Phoenall (Apr 13, 2015)

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 Reading what is not written shows a lack of intelligence, I said Israel allows the west a foothold in case of attack, and acts as an early warning system. But I see the rest went over your head and did not even ruffle your hair.


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## Phoenall (Apr 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


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 And under the Mandate for Palestine this includes Jordan


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## rhodescholar (Apr 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> I'll say it one more time, this forum is about Israel and Palestine and the conflict. that's why I post about it here. Seemples.



Ok c-nt, I am calling you out.  Where are your posts relating to the lack of basic freedoms in Gaza?

And where are your posts in the mideast forums addressing the lack of freedoms in the 22 arab countries?  

That's right, there aren't any, you non-credible piece of fucking turd.


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## rhodescholar (Apr 13, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Didn't have to, it was their land, they were already there.



Whose land?  It was already proven that the arabs were immigrants, and the arab landowners sold most of their property to jews.


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## montelatici (Apr 13, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Challenger said:
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> 
> > Didn't have to, it was their land, they were already there.
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No it has been proven that European Jews were the immigrants/settlers/invaders of Palestine.   Why do you bullshit?  There are plenty of UN and LoN reports that say as much.  Why do you constantly lie?


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


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 Cant find one that says the European Jews were invaders, can you help and post them for me..   Or is this another of your LIES


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## Linkiloo (Apr 14, 2015)

Challenger said:


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 An obvious dodge. I can always tell a real leftist from an anti-semite. The real leftist will equally condemn all human rights breaches the world over without singling out the jewish state. The honest critic will put suffering in context. He will see how the average palestinian is an instrument in a much bigger conflict, how he has been betrayed by his leaders and his neighbours (all of them). But an honest liberal will see that he is living longer than his berethen in neighbouring countries and that his freedoms are seriously curtailed but that the conflict has created this reality and this suffering for Jews too.


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## Linkiloo (Apr 14, 2015)

The whole "invaders" narrative has no bearing on today. Yep the US is born of invaders, as is Australia and most European lands have been invaded. So what? each modern country decides on its citizenship laws, so what of it? This is an anti-semitic angle that does not further the argument.


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## Linkiloo (Apr 14, 2015)

rhodescholar said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
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> > Because it hasn't worked well anywhere else in the middle east. Pretty obvious answer I'd say.
> ...


 I am always looking for real and fair critics of policy and with them I enjoy debating. However if a poster holds Israel to higher standards than others in the region, I have to wonder why that is. If a poster calls on Israel to open up access to Gaza, I ask, whx not call Egypt on that? If Israel is being called to task for killing civilians in war, why not call the US to task or even closer to home, Syria? Israeli wrongdoing must be put in context or it can only be a front for Jew-hate.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


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Not true.

If you stop using Israeli propaganda as your only source of information, you will find that activists are also involved in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc..


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


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 Not true because it shows you for what you are a moronic islamonazi stooge


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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Code Pink who has been blasted by Israeli propagandists for visiting Gaza several times also protests other wars.


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


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 And they should be arrested for treason and thrown into jail.


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## Challenger (Apr 14, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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Actually the ability to "read between the lines" demonstrates a much higher order of intelligence than taking things literally.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2015)

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Under what grounds? That they oppose the illegal actions of our government?


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## Challenger (Apr 14, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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Ignore him, he's just trolling again.


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## Challenger (Apr 14, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


> Challenger said:
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Good heavens, the "balanced view argument" AND the "Anti-Semite calumny" tactic all in one post, not seen that in years, it's a bit dated now.  Problem with taking a balanced view (and I did, once upon a time) is that you take your balance and add the facts that support each side to either end of the scales.  At some point the weight of evidence is so overwhelming and damning the scales tip over. That happened for me, when I learned that the Zionists lied, consistently and persistantly for decades; to the British, to the Americans, to the Syrians, to the Jordanians, to the Egyptians, to the League of Nations, to the UN and far more importantly, to the Jewish people themselves. *Everyone* has suffered because of Zionism, that's the reality of the world we live in today.


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## Challenger (Apr 14, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
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 But I did not say reading between the lines did I, I said reading what is not there. As in putting your own words to what was really said to twist and manipulate them to suit your POV. A bit like the arab muslims insistence in putting THE into UN res 242


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


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 Only illegal to you, to the majority of people they are not going far enough.


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## jillian (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Maybe it was too much to read......???



or maybe anti-semites who try to rely on jews are boring.


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Linkiloo said:
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 Yet the reality is that it has been mainly muslims that have impacted on the lives of hundreds of thousands of British people while Zionists have done absolutely nothing to them.  I have not seen a report of a gang of Jewish men grooming 12 year old girls in Britain, but I have seen reports of nearly 100 muslim gangs getting arrested for it. I have not seen reports of Zionists driving cars into Glasgow airport packed with explosives, but I have seen reports of muslims doing it. I have not seen Zionists lining the street shouting insults at the soldiers returning home, but I have seen reports of muslims doing it.  

 IN FACT I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY REPORTS OF ANY ZIONIST WRONG DOING OR CRIMINALITY IN BRITAIN, BUT I SEE REPORTS OF THE MUSLIMS WRONGDOING AND CRIMINALITY EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.


Want to prove me wrong mentally challenged that Zionists have never caused anyone to suffer as much as the muslims have in any nation in the world.


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Linkiloo said:
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You would know all about that the amount you spew out


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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NO ONE is condoning terrorist acts by radical Islamists...NO ONE !!!

However, when we examine the "effects" we cannot neglect from also examining the "causes."
Israel has basically colonized Palestine...using her superior military powers (and partially funded by the U.S.) to subjugate another ethnic group.....and the blood constantly spilled in that region is DIRECTLY attributed to the Israeli-Palestine conflict that began 70 years ago.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


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Subjugate another ethnic group...................

The Muslim World doesn't have a Moral leg to stand on in that regards............

The Ottomans slaughtered Millions at the end of the 19th Century and up til and after WWI............They created Concentration Camps in what they called the ottoman Caliphate............performed the Armenian Genocide and the Greek Genocide........long before the Genocide performed by Hitler..................

In that region before this occurred, and only ended after they were defeated, there were around 5 million ETHNIC MINORITIES called the CHRISTIANS and the Jews........................When they were done with their Extermination process only about 250,000 were left.....................

Why was the area in question underpopulated after WWI...........because millions had been slaughtered and the rest died in WWI in Heavy fighting between the Turks and Britain, France, Austrailia, etc..............Bloody fights including a fight for Gaza that lasted 9 months..................

Spare me the BS that it is the Jews who have the Ethnic, aka RACIST PROBLEM............

Do they charge a tax to non believers in their country..............

Do they oppress Religious Freedom there...................like in the Muslim World who if they just celebrate Easter they are possibly going to get slaughtered.............

Again, NO MORAL LEG TO STAND ON.


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
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 Islamonazi propaganda as Isreal has colonised nowhere it doesn't have a legal right to colonise. You forget that from 635C.E. the arab muslims have subjugated the Jews and Christians in the M.E. and all the blood spilt has been as a direct result of arab muslim attempted world domination. Now we have a strong Jewish presence in the M.E. the cancer of islam has been stopped from spreading.


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
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...and as I stated, NO ONE is condoning terrorist acts.....
PLease bear in mind that the genocide by the Nazi were done under a "Christian" banner.....and if we go back in history (as you apparently want to do) our own country is not innocent.

I am talking about Palestinians whose homes are bulldozed to make room for Israeli settlers......If such continues, Israel will have NO support (except for the Jewsih lobby in the US congress) from any other nation on the planet.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


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nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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They are governed by Hamas...........a proxy group from Iran.................They are classified as a Terror Group from the State Department.................

You say you don't condone Terrorist Acts..................Do you consider Hamas a terrorist organization...........................What is your position of them firing rockets and missiles into Israel all the time..................................

You can't have it both ways.....................They are either Terrorists or not...................CHOOSE.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

The Religion of Peace............

List of their documented Caliphates......................over time..........

List of Caliphs - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
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That's a 3rd grader perspective and conclusion.....

Hamas may be funded by Iran, but it is the "creation" of the unexpected consequences of Israeli government's apartheid practice toward Palestinians.
If Israel allowed the nation of Palestine to be formed, and if Israel stopped placing Palestinians on reservations. and if Israel stopped enchroaching on the little bit of land currently in the hands of Palestinians. Hamas would have no basis for their insurgency.

Although it is hard for right wingers to contemplate, I am a firm believer that the current (and some of the past) Israeli government(s) maintain their power by fanning the flames of discord which, in turn, precipitates terrorist acts against Israel and through such the fear monegring serves such government to maintain its foot on the necks of common Israelis.


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
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That's a 3rd grader perspective and conclusion.....

Hamas may be funded by Iran, but it is the "creation" of the unexpected consequences of Israeli government's apartheid practice toward Palestinians.
If Israel allowed the nation of Palestine to be formed, and if Israel stopped placing Palestinians on reservations. and if Israel stopped enchroaching on the little bit of land currently in the hands of Palestinians. Hamas would have no basis for their insurgency.

Although it is hard for right wingers to contemplate, I am a firm believer that the current (and some of the past) Israeli government(s) maintain their power by fanning the flames of discord which, in turn, precipitates terrorist acts against Israel and through such the fear monegring serves such government to maintain its foot on the necks of common Israelis.


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## montelatici (Apr 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
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Hamas are Sunni related to the Muslim Brotherhood, they are not governed by Iran.  I think you are confusing Hamas with Hezbollah.  

Terrorist versus Freedom Fighter depends on point of view. To the U.S. the Afghan Muhajedin were Freedom Fighters (to the Russians terrorists) when they fought in Afghanistan against the Russian supported Afghan government and against the Russians, but their kids became terrorists when they fought against the U.S. supported Afghan government and the U.S. Funny old world.

""As a descriptor, terrorist is almost never applied rigorously and consistently to describe the tactics a group is using -- rather, it is invoked as a pejorative to vilify the actions only of groups one wishes to discredit. People who agree with the ends of the very same groups often don't think of them as terrorists, the negative connotation of which causes them to focus on what they regard as the noble ends of allies they're more likely to dub freedom fighters."

"The application of the term "Terrorist" by the U.S. Government has nothing to do with how that term is commonly understood, but is instead exploited solely as a means to punish those who defy U.S. dictates and reward those who advance American interests and those of its allies (especially Israel). Thus, this Terror group is complying with U.S. demands, has beenpreviously trained by the U.S. itself, and is perpetrating its violence on behalf of a key American client state and against a key American enemy, and -- presto -- it is no longer a "foreign Terrorist organization."

Is One Man s Terrorist Another Man s Freedom Fighter The Atlantic


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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Well stated.....BTW, were not the Contras a "terrorist" group? Was the IRA a "terrorist" group? Was not our own country's effort to become a nation without the boot on our neck from George III, ALSO classified as a "terrorist" group by the British?


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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The Hamas Charter, which is funded by Iran just as they fund Hezballah, doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist......................and under this Insurgency by Hamas, or Fatah, or the PLO, or the Muslim Brotherhood as they change names has had a purpose for a very long time to DESTROY ISRAEL.................

That is not a 3rd grader response..................that is the truth..............and they have fired thousands upon thousands of rockets into Israel............They have built tunnels into Israel for the sole purpose of terrorist attacks.......................

You did not answer my question.  Your response was to AVOID the question................

They are considered a Terrorist Org by the United States and World..............and they are the ruling party in Gaza and the West Bank.....................With continued attacks and them vowing to destroy Israel..............Israel has no reason to REASONABLE WITH THEM................

They offer NO REASONABLE TRUCE and VIOLATED EVERY TRUCE EVER MADE................

Your non answer was an answer to me.......You support HAMAS..................a Terrorist organization...............


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

Iran cuts Hamas funding over Syria - Telegraph

*Iran has cut up to £15 million a month in funding for Hamas as punishment for the movement's backing for the uprising in Syria, the Palestinian Islamist group's leaders have admitted.*

*The two former close allies have also ceased military cooperation, effectively ending a warm relationship that saw Tehran provide weapons, technical know-how and military training to Hamas fighters.

The rupture has been caused by Hamas's refusal to toe the Iranian line by supporting President Bashar al-Assad, whose Alawite regime is religiously loosely related to the Shia Islam practiced by Iran's ruling theocracy.

Hamas - which runs the Gaza Strip - has sided with its Sunni co-religionists trying to unseat Mr Assad, in common with other mainly Sunni countries like Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Ghazi Hamad, Hamas's deputy foreign minister, described relations with Iran frankly as "bad" before adding: "Diplomatically, I have to use other words."

Asked about Iranian funding, he said: "I can say it is not like the past. I cannot give you the exact amount. For supporting the Syrian revolution, we lost very much.

"I cannot deny that since 2006 Iran supported Hamas with money and many [other] things. But the situation is not like the past. I cannot say that everything is normal."

He added: "I cannot say there is military cooperation."

While Hamas officials have previously said they would not retaliate on Iran's behalf if Israel attacked the Islamic Republic's nuclear facilities - citing disagreements over Syria - they have previously been coy about funding from a country that is Shia and non-Arab.

Iran gave Hamas an estimated £13-15 million a month after its victory in the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections - enough to cover its governing budget, said Dr Adnan Abu Amer, assistant professor of political science at Gaza City's Ummah University.

Tehran still sends a "tiny amount" to maintain ties and keep its much-trumpeted support of the Palestinian cause alive, he said. But relations have been all but severed.
*


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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aka You call them a Freedom Fighter and I call them a Terrorist...........

And Iran has funded them in the past and that is openly admitted by Hamas...............perhaps not as much as before because of Syria...............

Israel has captured Iranian Weapons shipments destined for Hamas through Gaza..............It's a historical fact..........unless you refuse to see the forest for the trees as the anti'Semite posters here do all the time..............

The Muslim world created the problem by choosing War over Peace and the Palestinians have rejected proposals for state hood several times.............

Tis what it is.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

Israel halts weapons shipment from Iran - BBC News

Israel says it has seized a ship carrying advanced Iranian weapons made in Syria that was heading towards Gaza.

The Panamanian-flagged vessel was boarded by Israeli naval commandos in the Red Sea off the coast of Sudan, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said.

*They found M-302 surface-to-surface missiles that were flown to Iran before being loaded onto the ship, it added*.

Hamas, the militant Palestinian Islamist movement that governs Gaza, strenuously denied any involvement.

It accused Israel of concocting a story to "justify the blockade" of the coastal territory.

Israel tightly controls its border with Gaza, restricting what is allowed in for what it says are reasons crucial to its security. It also maintains a naval blockade. Egypt blockades Gaza's southern border.

Critics say the blockade is tantamount to collective punishment.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

As usual you guys are Lying.  Typical.


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

Well, Beagle......there's no convincing you beyond your prejudices......But you should know that to Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah are freedom fighters....of course, to Israel, they are terrorists..
You see, its a matter of perspective...and for every rocket that Hezbollah launches on Israel, Israelis bulldoze yet another Palestinian home.....and the trend will go on, keeping in power BOTH the Israeli current government AND terrorist leaders......and so it goes.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)




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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Well, Beagle......there's no convincing you beyond your prejudices......But you should know that to Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah are freedom fighters....of course, to Israel, they are terrorists..
> You see, its a matter of perspective...and for every rocket that Hezbollah launches on Israel, Israelis bulldoze yet another Palestinian home.....and the trend will go on, keeping in power BOTH the Israeli current government AND terrorist leaders......and so it goes.


Of course it's a matter of perspective................You choose Hamas and won't even answer my direct question...........are they Freedom Fighters to you.....................and again I state you don't even have to answer that question as I already know the answer, which you don't have the balls to admit.

You praised the other poster for his comments, and his comments on Iran supplying Hamas is an outright LIE.............they have been giving aid and comfort to Hamas for a very long time.  Over time it is very well documented............While they aren't the best of buddies Iran funds them because they are a thorn in Israel's side...............

So you were agreeing with a LIE.  Which I'm used to seeing............

You say it's basically a perpetual War.  No shit Sherlock............It's been going on since 1948...................and over that time it is CLEAR............The ARAB WORLD will NEVER AGREE to ANYTHING OTHER THAN the DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL.


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)




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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

Why should I care what Hamas Wants................Why should Israel.............


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


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 If the arab muslim homes are built on stolen Jewish land then they should be bulldozed and the squatters run off. You do know that Jordan stole Jewish owned land in 1949 don't you ?


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


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 In 1988 the Palestinians declared independence and the nation of Palestine was born. So how did Israel stop this from happening.
What apartheid practises does Israel have inside its borders and on its land ?  Don't count the west bank as that is not Israeli land
 The simple answer is for the arab muslims to comply with their promises and negotiate a peace settlement and mutual borders.

It is very hard for left wingers to see that the arab muslims don't want a two state solution or peace with Israel. They want an Islamic state run by the likes of IS and the genocide of the Jews as commanded by their god in 635 C.E.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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What do the Palestinians have to do with Jordan?


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


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 MORE RACIST LIES BREVA look at the grad rockets fired from gaza with made in iran painted all over them


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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Where is the lie?


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
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 They accepted Jordan rule in 1948 and became citizens of Jordan, so by free determination they lost their Palestinian identity and became Jordanians. They even sided with the Jordanian troops in killing Jews in the west bank. They just as quickly shit in their own nest and became Palestinians again in 1988.


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## Phoenall (Apr 14, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


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 Read the post again


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

Phoenall said:


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It is a waste of time to have right wingers comprehend what "state" the Palestinians have declared in 1988........But, for others who are a bit brighter, let me explain:

The PLO declared a Palestinian state as a "de jure" state....in legal terms, that is "a state without territory".......in other words, the PLO claimed a state wihich encompasses land that is CONTROLLED BY THE ISRAELIS.

Therefore, it is not a defacto state ....nore like a state whose leadership is in exile (like the French did in WWII)


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## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

Look right wingers....the O/P was meant to point out that there are many Jews who highly criticize the Israeli government and its tactics.....

You, as expected, call these Jews, traitors to the cause.

Now, if you had some Palestinians who criticize the current tactics of Hamas or Hezbollah, what would you label these folks?


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## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Look right wingers....the O/P was meant to point out that there are many Jews who highly criticize the Israeli government and its tactics.....
> 
> You, as expected, call these Jews, traitors to the cause.
> 
> Now, if you had some Palestinians who criticize the current tactics of Hamas or Hezbollah, what would you label these folks?



That's not what the OP was about.  Not really.............You look for and find stuff to condemn Israel on a regular basis...................and ultimately that is your purpose.................

You have basically given your support to Hamas without actually speaking it...............even though it is implied with your posts continually............


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Look right wingers....the O/P was meant to point out that there are many Jews who highly criticize the Israeli government and its tactics.....
> ...


 

The "conclusion" that I support Hamas...is strictly in your twisted, hate filled imagination......and we all know that it is difficult to refute neurosis in others.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


You kept pushing the issue of Freedom Fighters and to justify their stance................and refused repeatedly to answer the direct question applied to you.

And even now you side step the issue.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

As a gauge of right wing hypocrisy.....On another thread I wrote:

........ would it be a real stretch to describe Mexcian "illegals" coming across the border and claiming residence in the states, as being akin to Israelis having come across Palestinian borders claiming an ancestral right to be there?........

Just wondering.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> As a gauge of right wing hypocrisy.....On another thread I wrote:
> 
> ........ would it be a real stretch to describe Mexcian "illegals" coming across the border and claiming residence in the states, as being akin to Israelis having come across Palestinian borders claiming an ancestral right to be there?........
> 
> Just wondering.


It's not the same.............as Gaza and the West Bank are not countries.................which is what they want right............but every time offered they reject............

So be it.............

Nations have Immigration laws..............Show me the nations in dispute.


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> As a gauge of right wing hypocrisy.....On another thread I wrote:
> 
> ........ would it be a real stretch to describe Mexcian "illegals" coming across the border and claiming residence in the states, as being akin to Israelis having come across Palestinian borders claiming an ancestral right to be there?........
> 
> Just wondering.



try the reverse.  most of the modern palestinians were the migrant workers that came seeking jobs.  Jews were invited and allowed to buy land to develop after 1839.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> try the reverse. most of the modern palestinians were the migrant workers that came seeking jobs. Jews were invited and allowed to buy land to develop after 1839.



"Invited" by whom? (and if they were they've certainly overstayed their welcome, don't you think?)


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 14, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > try the reverse. most of the modern palestinians were the migrant workers that came seeking jobs. Jews were invited and allowed to buy land to develop after 1839.
> ...



By the Ottoman (Mahmud II and also Abdulmecid I) and later the arabs like Fesial to return and recreate their homeland.
How do they over stay their welcome to their own homeland?
That part of the levant was costing too much to operate and it was too poor, under developed and under populated to generate enough taxes.  Jews brought modernization to the region in ways the Ottoman could not.  Till that time the lower levant (mandate) had been under a feudal or millet system, over lords or estate owners controlled the land at those working on it.  Most were basically absentee owners from Lebanon, Egypt or Syria.
Before that time Jewish owned land was limited and passed from owner to owner or to the synagogue and sold to other jews.  There had been for a long time a cap on jewish owned land till '39.  Off and on jews had been allowed to buy land and immigrate from other places but not in large numbers and it depended on who was ruling at any given time.  Jews were also allowed to pray at the wall after that time as well.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 14, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > As a gauge of right wing hypocrisy.....On another thread I wrote:
> ...



No, that is Zionist propaganda.  It is just a lie.   As reported by the Mandatory to the UN the Arab population grew as a result of natural increase while the Jewish population grew as a result of migration to Palestine.  Why do you continue making things up?

*UNITED
NATIONS
A*






*General Assembly*













 A/364
3 September 1947
*OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF 
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY*


*SUPPLEMENT No. 11*



*UNITED NATIONS
SPECIAL COMMITTEE
ON PALESTINE*



*REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY*

*VOLUME 1*





*Lake Success
New York
1947*


(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. *The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. *From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. *The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths.* Indeed, the natural rate of increase of Moslem Arabs in Palestine is the highest in recorded statistics,1 a phenomenon explained by very high fertility rates coupled with a marked decline in death rates as a result of improved conditions of life and public health, The natural rate of increase of Jews is also relatively high, but is conditioned by a favorable age distribution of the population due to the high rate of immigration.

A 364 of 3 September 1947


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 14, 2015)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



You"dare" challenge right wingers with facts????? They don't need facts when prejudices and perpetual ignorance  has served them fine for all these years.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 14, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > As a gauge of right wing hypocrisy.....On another thread I wrote:
> ...


...migrant workers that came seeking jobs.​
Jobs from whom? Palestine already had hundreds upon hundreds of villages that were losing their excess population to the cities like it was all over the world at that time of industrialization.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...







 And they still have not done anything to claim the land and set up mutual borders have they. All they are doing is hoping that the UN, US or EU will force Israel to shut up shop so they an walk in to a ready made nation, a pity this will never happen. The arab muslims need to get their act together, sue for peace and negotiate the best deal they can with Israel, Jordan and Egypt and then start building in earnest. Put up their weapons and beat their swords into plowshares so they can become productive human beings and not the barbaric psychopaths they are


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...






 Cherry picked "facts" that do not tell the full story. Now if this POS was genuine they would present the full transcript they have copied from and show the truth. How many times has his cherry picked links been shown to actually show the exact opposite of what he implied. Devious is his middle name


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 Jewish farms that were thriving while others saw the crops failing. The surrounding areas saw massive crop failures due to archaic farming methods and the itinerant labourers were unable to get any money. On top of this the Jews paid higher wages than the other farmers so the word soon spread that the pickings were easy.   Just like the Alaskan gold rush and the land grabs in the west of America.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Look right wingers....the O/P was meant to point out that there are many Jews who highly criticize the Israeli government and its tactics.....
> 
> You, as expected, call these Jews, traitors to the cause.
> 
> Now, if you had some Palestinians who criticize the current tactics of Hamas or Hezbollah, what would you label these folks?






 And you LIE asthere are not many Jews at all, just a tiny minority who have a different opinion on everything. Something like the Ahmadi muslims and IS differences.


I would label them suicides because they would be shot by hamas thugs, as has happened in recent times


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> As a gauge of right wing hypocrisy.....On another thread I wrote:
> 
> ........ would it be a real stretch to describe Mexcian "illegals" coming across the border and claiming residence in the states, as being akin to Israelis having come across Palestinian borders claiming an ancestral right to be there?........
> 
> Just wondering.






 No it would be more like arab muslims coming into Palestine and claiming they had been there for 2000 years and then talking about the life back home in Syria.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > try the reverse. most of the modern palestinians were the migrant workers that came seeking jobs. Jews were invited and allowed to buy land to develop after 1839.
> ...






 The lands legal rulers/owners because the arab muslims refused to settle the land. So prior to 1917 they were invited by the Ottomans, after 1917 they were invited by the LoN. The later gave them 22% of the land of Palestine to be their national home while at the same time giving 78% to trans Jordan for the arab muslims.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 Not valid without the full transcript being shown, or would that destroy your POV


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 How about these from your link

  NON-COOPERATION OF THE ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE

 32. At its fifth meeting (the first held in Jerusalem), the Committee was informed by a cablegram from the Secretary-General of the United Nations of the decision of the Arab Higher Committee to abstain from collaboration with the Special Committee.18/ The communication was read at the seventh meeting. The result was that, while the Committee unanimously expressed its hope of securing the cooperation of all parties, it decided not to take any formal action, considering that the Chairman had on the previous day made an appeal by radio for the full cooperation of all parties.19/

33. The Committee discussed again, at its 22nd and 23rd meetings on 8 July, the question of addressing a further request for cooperation to the Arab Higher Committee. The Special Committee reaffirmed its conviction as to the de desirability of securing Arab cooperation and, after discussing the means by which this might best be accomplished, decided to address a letter directly to the Arab Higher Committee. This letter stated that the Special Committee had noted with regret the decision of the Arab Higher Committee not to cooperate, and repeated the Special Committee's invitation for full cooperation as expressed by the Chairman in his broad cast of 16 June.

34. On 10 July, a letter was received from Mr. Jamal Husseini, Vice-Chairman of the Aral Higher Committee. This communication states that the Arab Higher Committee found no reason to reverse its previous decision, submitted to the Secretary-General of the United Nation on 13 June 1947,20/ to abstain from collaboration

  FUTURE TRENDS

(1) The Arab population (particularly the Moslem Arabs) of Palestine will continue to grow rapidly, owing to high fertility and falling mortality rates. The conditions making for a high fertility rate are not likely to change greatly in the immediate future.(2) Apart from immigration, the Jewish population will increase more slowly owing to a fertility rate which is already lower than that of Moslems and is considered likely to fall. The reduction in the death rate of the Jewish population is also likely to be less than the reduction in the Arab rate, since the Jewish mortality rate is already low.


  RELEVANT ECONOMIC FACTORS

 (1) Apart from a small number of experts, no Jewish workers are employed in Arab undertakings, and apart from citrus groves (where some Arabs work as seasonal labourers on Jewish farms), very few Arabs are employed in Jewish enterprises. Indeed, government service, the Potash Company and the Oil Refinery are almost the only places where Arabs and Jews meet as coworkers in the same organizations.
 (3) Arab agriculture is based to a considerable extent on cereal production, and tends to be subsistence farming. Only about 20 to 25 per cent of Arab agricultural production (excluding citrus) is marketed; Jewish agriculture, on the other hand, is largely intensive and cash-crop farming. About 75 per cent of Jewish agricultural production is sold on the market. It is marketed mainly through Jewish marketing organizations to Jewish retailers.(4) The occupational structure of the Jewish population is similar to that of some homogeneous industrialized communities, while that of the Arabs corresponds more nearly to a subsistence type of agricultural society.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Israel halts weapons shipment from Iran - BBC News
> 
> Israel says it has seized a ship carrying advanced Iranian weapons made in Syria that was heading towards Gaza.
> 
> ...


Why can't Gazans have weapons?

Are you saying they don't have a right to defend themselves?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Why can't Gazans have weapons?
> 
> Are you saying they don't have a right to defend themselves?



NO 2nd Amendment rights???? LOL


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel halts weapons shipment from Iran - BBC News
> ...






 Starting hostilities is not defending themselves, firing illegal rockets at Israeli civilians is not defending themselves. They are acts of war and terrorism. Would you give a child with a fixation on fire a can of gas and a box of matches ?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Why can't Gazans have weapons?
> ...





Not American so why should they.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


 
Throwing boxes of tea into the Boston harbor was NOT "defending" either, dingbat.....Would you then say that American colonists were terrorists?...inciting a war?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...






 Yes I would.
 But would you be as happy to see Israel doing exactly the same things to gaza and laiming that they were just defending themselves, or would you throw the hissy fit of all hissy fits ?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel halts weapons shipment from Iran - BBC News
> ...


When they fire these weapons of DEFENSE.......LOL..........on a daily business at there neighbors then Israel has every right to confiscate these weapons.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> When they fire these weapons of DEFENSE.......LOL..........on a daily business at there neighbors then Israel has every right to confiscate these weapons.




Beagle, you dingbat, when a guy wearing a yarmulke comes with a bulldozer to tear down your home.......you DEFEND your family.......Don't like it?
Tough shit,.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > When they fire these weapons of DEFENSE.......LOL..........on a daily business at there neighbors then Israel has every right to confiscate these weapons.
> ...


Same homes Hamas used to fire rockets from..............
Tough shit.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Same homes Hamas used to fire rockets from..............
> Tough shit.




Well, then, tough shit, with those rockets raining on Israelis.....Happy now?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Same homes Hamas used to fire rockets from..............
> ...


Are you finally understanding the Fact that me and you don't agree at all.............We are completely opposite on this issue and there isn't going to caving to your BS from my side..............

As long as Hamas continues to attack Israel then this will continue................and Israel can back it up on the battlefield anytime they please................

Stop firing at Israel...........recognize their countries right to exist............or get pounded by the IDF from time to time..............Which has been going on for 7 decades.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Are you finally understanding the Fact that me and you don't agree at all.............We are completely opposite on this issue and there isn't going to caving to your BS from my side..............
> 
> As long as Hamas continues to attack Israel then this will continue................and Israel can back it up on the battlefield anytime they please................
> 
> Stop firing at Israel...........recognize their countries right to exist............or get pounded by the IDF from time to time..............Which has been going on for 7 decades.




Well, Beagle nothing please me more than to know that I'm on the "completely opposite side" from you......

No doubt, Israel is the big bully of that region....they have the military prowess, help with their financing of war material from the US taxpayers.....an ever growing desire to take more and more land from Palestinians.....

Will this make Israel live in peace??? Certainly not  
Will this keep the war-mongering Netanyahu in power? Probably
Will this keep Iran from getting a nuke? Surely not.....

So, both sides will keep having children to be used for war fodder.


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 15, 2015)

Bulldozers were a response to the violence and smuggling of weapons.  They did not show up unexpected.  There were notices issued, courts to adjudicate and time to move, family and all.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Bulldozers were a response to the violence and smuggling of weapons. They did not show up unexpected. There were notices issued, courts to adjudicate and time to move, family and all.



Interesting response........BTW, did you know that in 1933-34 Germany, the rising Nazi Party ALSO used, first notices and then the courts to adjudicate why Germany Jewish families should leave their homes or businesses?

Just asking.....(and also wondering how history just repeats itself with the persecuted becoming the persecutors.)


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Bulldozers were a response to the violence and smuggling of weapons. They did not show up unexpected. There were notices issued, courts to adjudicate and time to move, family and all.
> ...



Perhaps you have forgotten Kristallnacht and the aftermath, or the deportation of polish jews and their fate as refugees at the border?
Nazi issued orders, there was not length court hearings for jews to fight against the animals train boxes transporting jews to the death camps.  They were not given years, months or weeks to arrange their affairs or store their property against the nazi thieves.  They could not even keep their own hair or teeth.
Israeli courts have and still do up hold palestinian rights a great deal of the time.  Many cases have decided in the palestinian favor.
Only people who don't really understand what happened in nazi german would compare Germany with Israel.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 15, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



So why should the Palestinians have been punished for the crimes of the Germans, Christians no less?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Only people who don't really understand what happened in nazi german would compare Germany with Israel.




BS....and cheap.....YOU pointed out that Palestinians are given the opportunity to fight dislocation by Israelis.......in an Israeli Court and legal system.......I simply pointed out that such cases are perfunctory and that Germany in the early '30 actually went through the same charade.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> When they fire these weapons of DEFENSE.......LOL..........on a daily business at there neighbors then Israel has every right to confiscate these weapons.


Except for the fact that that is a fantasy and not reality.  The reality is Israel has broken the ceasefire over 400 times since Aug. 26 of last year and the Pals only shot back 5 rockets.  That's a little less than "daily".


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> Israeli courts have and still do up hold palestinian rights a great deal of the time.  Many cases have decided in the palestinian favor.


No they don't!  You're a fuckin' liar!

94% of the cases are dismissed without an investigation.




aris2chat said:


> Only people who don't really understand what happened in nazi german would compare Germany with Israel.


There are many similarities between what went on in Germany during the 10 years prior to the Holocaust and Israel today and their treatment of the Palestinian's.  Christ, even Holocaust survivors have stated this.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

aris2chat said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > aris2chat said:
> ...



Well said. They don't realize that when they are making the comparison, that they only making a fool out of themselves.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> That's a little less than "daily".




Well, since right wingers are big fans of Genesis and how long it took GOD to create the universe, they have a hard time in gauging time.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Israeli courts have and still do up hold palestinian rights a great deal of the time.  Many cases have decided in the palestinian favor.
> ...


No there aren't. All of that Palestinian ass kissing has gotten to your head.

I remember when you made a list of comparisons to Nazi Germany, and I refuted them. SO feel free to do so again Palestinian ass kisser.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Starting hostilities is not defending themselves, firing illegal rockets at Israeli civilians is not defending themselves. They are acts of war and terrorism. Would you give a child with a fixation on fire a can of gas and a box of matches ?


Earth to *Phoney*, earth to *Phoney*, they didn't start hostilities.

The occupation started a full 37 years before the first rocket went up.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> Well said. They don't realize that when they are making the comparison, that they only making a fool out of themselves.



Yet another clueless right winger "rises" to the Israeli cause......It is not the first time (nor, unfortunately, the last) that the persecuted become the persecutors.....fairly recently, the example of South Africa comes to mind.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Well, since right wingers are big fans of Genesis and how long it took GOD to create the universe, they have a hard time in gauging time.


I was a fan of Genesis.....

......when they had Peter Gabriel.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Starting hostilities is not defending themselves, firing illegal rockets at Israeli civilians is not defending themselves. They are acts of war and terrorism. Would you give a child with a fixation on fire a can of gas and a box of matches ?
> ...



The first documented attacks were against Jews, by Arabs. Even before 1929 Hebron Massacre.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> No there aren't. All of that Palestinian ass kissing has gotten to your head.
> 
> I remember when you made a list of comparisons to Nazi Germany, and I refuted them. SO feel free to do so again Palestinian ass kisser.



If some of us will be labeled by such idiots as you as "Palestinian ass kissers," which part of the anatomy should we call you "kissing" regarding Israelis?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> No there aren't. All of that Palestinian ass kissing has gotten to your head.
> 
> I remember when you made a list of comparisons to Nazi Germany, and I refuted them. SO feel free to do so again Palestinian ass kisser.


You didn't refute shit!  Most of these discussions are way over your head.

You need to remind yourself your Canadian.  Which means the only things you know, are women with flat heads and no teeth, the fact that you have a racist asshole for a prime minister and you make good beer.  That's it!

That's all you know!

_Mike Trout, mother-fucker! Mike Trout._


----------



## montelatici (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Even if true, it was an attack against European colonizers.  But, the first attacks were by Jews against Palestinian shepherds grazing their sheep on land claimed by European Jews.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> The first documented attacks were against Jews, by Arabs. Even before 1929 Hebron Massacre.


Because those Jews were going up to Arab homes and telling the owners  the house was theirs (the Jews), because God said so.  I have to tell you, any SOB that came to my door and said that to me, would get his ass whipped.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > The first documented attacks were against Jews, by Arabs. Even before 1929 Hebron Massacre.
> ...


Completely irrelevant. Women and children were massacred and the reason you gave doesn't change anything.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


No, that was NOT the first attack. We've been through this already. 

"Attack against European colonizers"

What a load of crap. You always make a crappy excuse when Jews are killed, but when Palestinians are killed as a result of collateral damage in a war, you scream murder !.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> Completely irrelevant. Women and children were massacred and the reason you gave doesn't change anything.


And over 400 Jews were saved by their Arab neighbors.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > No there aren't. All of that Palestinian ass kissing has gotten to your head.
> ...


Mike trout is a great player, what's r point 

and YES, I DID refute your comparisons. Go ahead, post them again Palestinian ass kisser. If you dare.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



What are people from another continent that go to a place with the intention of settling and evicting the existing population?  Tourists?  The European Zionists even called themselves colonists and their homesteads colonies.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

Billo_Really said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Completely irrelevant. Women and children were massacred and the reason you gave doesn't change anything.
> ...


Which incident are you referring to ?

BTW, Montreal just won game 1 of the series against Ottawa. Go Montreal Go !!!!!


----------



## montelatici (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



You are a ass kisser of European colonists.  Did you support the Apartheid Boers or do you just support Jewish colonists?


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


That wasn't their intention. Their intention was clear, to build a Jewish home as promised by the British.

It's called immigration. I'm not saying that everything was 100% fair for the Palestinians, but that's just the way it is.

Massacring Jews, revolting (1936-39) and joining the 5 Arab states to openly try and destroy Israel is what really  fucked over the Palestinians.
Actions have consequences.
If the Palestinians are good at one thing, it's continuously digging themselves a deeper hole.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


The term 'European Colonists' is Palestinian propaganda.

You're just frustrated because you support the losing side.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> That wasn't their intention. Their intention was clear, to build a Jewish home as promised by the British.




So were the Brits to now "promise" Canada to Tanzania.....Would those Canadians need to start packing?


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > That wasn't their intention. Their intention was clear, to build a Jewish home as promised by the British.
> ...


Tanzania is a sovereign state. Not even remotely close


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> Tanzania is a sovereign state. Not even remotely close




Is sarcasm way over your head??? If so,  I'll have my dog respond to your next post...He's pretty good, however.


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Tanzania is a sovereign state. Not even remotely close
> ...



Ummm, i got news for you . Dogs can't talk...


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 15, 2015)

toastman said:


> Ummm, i got news for you . Dogs can't talk...



Yeah, but my dog is a terrific typist....


----------



## toastman (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Ummm, i got news for you . Dogs can't talk...
> ...


We'll see about that


----------



## montelatici (Apr 15, 2015)

Toast believes that any people should willingly give up their land and homes to Jews.


----------



## aris2chat (Apr 15, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> aris2chat said:
> 
> 
> > Only people who don't really understand what happened in nazi german would compare Germany with Israel.
> ...



When those with even a small bit of jewish blood in their family tree were deemed no long as germans or those of jewish decent no long cold hold professional jobs, there was not recource through the courts, nor when jews were sent to the death camps.
Where was the german court when their rights were taken away or when millions were killed?


----------



## Linkiloo (Apr 16, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


 I bet you are.


----------



## Linkiloo (Apr 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Toast believes that any people should willingly give up their land and homes to Jews.


 From this post it follows that giving up one's home to anyone but Jews would be easier. That is clearly an anti-semitic view.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > When they fire these weapons of DEFENSE.......LOL..........on a daily business at there neighbors then Israel has every right to confiscate these weapons.
> ...





 Not if you have any sense you don't, you go crying to daddy hamas and demand a new home. But you never ever fire an illegal rocket at children 50 miles away to terrorise them as that is the sign of a coward.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Same homes Hamas used to fire rockets from..............
> ...





 And even tougher that 2000 terrorists were killed because of those rockets and 500,000 terrorists made homeless

 HAPPY NOW ! ! ! ! ! !


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Linkiloo said:
> ...



They created the cancer that is Israel.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Perhaps, but the Palestinans do. They are the victims of Zionist colonisation in an era that is supposed to reject imperialism and colonialism and allow for the self-determination of peoples. The Palestinian people were denied their right to self determination by those imperialist colonial powers. So trying to conflate the Palestinian conflict with Zionist colonialism is at best, disingenuous.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



There is no legal right to colonise. The presense of the Zionist Paradise in the M.E. means that more Muslims are coming to Europe and America, fatal flaw in your logic there.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Israel halts weapons shipment from Iran - BBC News
> 
> Israel says it has seized a ship carrying advanced Iranian weapons made in Syria that was heading towards Gaza.
> 
> ...



The important bit to note here is the phrase "Israel says"...pass me the salt, I need to take a pinch.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, Beagle......there's no convincing you beyond your prejudices......But you should know that to Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah are freedom fighters....of course, to Israel, they are terrorists..
> ...



In WW2 the AK the FFI and multiple resistance organisations were all call "terrorists" by the Nazis.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Who starts the fight? The guy who throws the first punch, or the guy who continually needles the guy to provoke him into throwing the first punch?


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


The war's not over yet.


----------



## Linkiloo (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...


 Any parent will tell you that no one cares.


----------



## Linkiloo (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


 This post makes no sense. Palestinians are not coming to Europe from the Middle East and definately not due to Israel. Most of the murdering is being done by another arab, namely Assad. Our immigrants are from Kosovo, Syria, Albania. Can't blame that one on the "zionist".


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Toast believes that any people should willingly give up their land and homes to Jews.




Mostly because these Jews speak better English than Palestinians.....therefore, for right wingers, the ability to speak better English is justification for dislocating those who can't quite be understood by bubbas in Alabama or Idaho.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> The first documented attacks were against Jews, by Arabs. Even before 1929 Hebron Massacre.



.........and Toasty, if you bother to read just a bit more beyond the headline....the Hebron incident was sparked by reports that some Jews had planned to blow up a mosque in Jerusalem......Like most things in that region, its always who started it first.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 16, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


> post makes no sense. Palestinians are not coming to Europe from the Middle East and definately not due to Israel. Most of the murdering is being done by another arab, namely Assad. Our immigrants are from Kosovo, Syria, Albania. Can't blame that one on the "zionist



Well, here's why................
The only legal ways in and out of Gaza are through its official border crossings with Israel and Egypt. Gaza has little control over those crossings, and both of its neighbors have severely restricted the movement of people and goods across the borders because of security concerns.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

Linkiloo said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Never said they were. Most Palestinian refugees head to the U.S. in any event. Phoney has a bee in his racist bigoted bonnet about the influx of brown-skinned Muslims into Europe, I just pointed out they wouldn't necessarily be coming here were it not for historic Western interference in the region, especially the creation of the Zionist Paradise. Even Assad wouldn't be doing much murdering were it not for western backing for the opposition, but that's a topic for another forum.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Toast believes that any people should willingly give up their land and homes to Jews.
> ...


Mostly because these Jews speak better English than Palestinians​
There is something to be said about that. The Zionists had people in western countries for over a hundred years selling Israel. They spoke the local languages and had government and media influence. Their narrative was the only one available.

The Palestinians were simply out of that loop.

It is different now. Diaspora Palestinians speak the local languages and are gaining media coverage and (not much yet) government influence. They are breaking the Zionist's lock on public discourse and are changing public opinion.


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > The first documented attacks were against Jews, by Arabs. Even before 1929 Hebron Massacre.
> ...


Even if that was true, what's your point ? No Mosque was blown up.

Jews were massacred and attacked several times before any Arab was killed..fact..deal with it...

Arabs instigated the violence....deal with it.


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Yes, and they are using the media to spread their immense propaganda.


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



Whenever we debate the 6 day war, you deluded propagandists claim that Israel started the war because they fired the first shot. 
But now you appear to be claiming that even though the Arabs fired the first show, they didn't start the hostilities...

Pro Palestinian hypocrisy at its best


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


 
Unlike Israel who actually sent Netanyahu to speak before Congress?

Exactly _WHO_ is better at propaganda?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


 

You're entitled to your opinion, but NOT to your own facts, Toasty...

On June 4, 1967 the Israeli Cabinet authorized the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defence to decide on appropriate steps to defend the State of Israel.On June 5, *Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against Egypt* and captured the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip.


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


I know that. Where did I say otherwise ??

At least you agree it was a pre emptive strike, which means you agree Israel had reason to attack Egypt.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




Tricky Toast.  But, there was nothing pre-emptive about Israel's aggression.  Legally, a pre-emptive action is such when it is akin to a reflex action 
like throwing up of ones arms at the very last minute to defend from a blow to the face.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Do I? Don't remember ever stating that, but whatever. In 1967 Zionist Isreal was geared up and ready for war, the Egyptians and the Syrians weren't. There was much posturing and sabre rattling by everyone, but ultimately the Zionists provoked the war. Moshe Dyan, himself, admitted that Israel initiated 80% of the border clashes with Syria that ultimately led to the 1967 war. Origins of the Six-Day War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Challenger (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The reason was to conquer more territory.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


Indeed, the Zionist bullshit machine has shifted into high gear.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Just like the lying Zionist propagandists who say that the Palestinians fired the first shot. (like in 1929)


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


Can you prove otherwise?? Show me a link that shows Jews killing Arabs before Jews were killed by Palestinians..


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


The Zionisy machine thag you soeak of is in your head.
Palestinians are the kings of lies and propaganda, as are their supporters. You and Monti are prime examples of this.


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...


If that was the case, why did Israel offer to give back ALL of the territory it conquered for peace?


----------



## montelatici (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



When has Israel stated anything of the sort. LOL


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Deflection. That is not the point.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Sure, there are plenty.  The Europeans behaved like colonial European usually behaved..  Usually  they were the first to kill and that was the case in Palestine.

" a new document referring to the Zarnuka incident was discovered recently by researcher Yuval Ben Bassat, in the Istanbul Archives, a petition written to Sultan Mehmet V by heads of families in the area.

The petitioners present themselves as, "We, the residents of villages neighboring with the Jewish colonies of Daran [Rehovot] and Lun Kara (Rishon Leztion)," and complain that the Jews "wanted to strip the camel owner of their clothes, money and camels, but these men refused to give their camels and escaped from Lun Kara with their camels, protecting each other [to seek refuge with] men of the law… *The above mentioned Jews attacked our villages*, robbed and looted our property, *killed* and even damaged the family honor, all this in a manner we find hard to put in words."

"This is the first time we see how they describe things from their point of view, "Ben Bassat says." It's not a matter of being for or against Zionism – it simply shows how complex this meeting was, and that can't be learned anywhere else."

New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements - Israel News Haaretz


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you finally understanding the Fact that me and you don't agree at all.............We are completely opposite on this issue and there isn't going to caving to your BS from my side..............
> ...






A pity then that US records show they GIVE more to the Palestinians than they LEND the Jews isn't it.

As for taking Palestinian land, it was never Palestinian land in the fist place, it was Jewish right from 1923 when the LoN said it was.


Will this make the arab muslims live in peace              NEVER

Will this keep hamas attacking


Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 Did they really, and when did this monumental fantasy take place. The LoN created Israel and the Jews fulfilled the terms


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Where's the date ??


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 Read the MANDATE FOR PALESTINE and see what was given to the non Jews. The Palestinians of 1923 had their righjt to self determination enhanced by International law of 1923.


----------



## toastman (Apr 16, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What ?? How is that a deflection?? It was a direct response to your post.

You said: "Just like the lying Zionist propagandists who say that the Palestinians fired the first shot. (like in 1929)"'

So you're claiming that it was NOT the Arabs who fired the first shot. Can you prove that?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 I wondered when the neo Marxists would blame their own stupidity on the Jews. It was the lax immigration Laws that enabled more muslims to come to Europe and America under neo Marxist rule.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel halts weapons shipment from Iran - BBC News
> ...







 Is that the same as the few  links you give that say "from a Palestinian source "


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...







 The arab muslims every time, and then whinge when they get owned


montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






 When was Zionism invented again ?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 16, 2015)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


Israel shoots farmers and fishermen in Gaza all the time. The people in Gaza do not shoot Israelis.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > The first documented attacks were against Jews, by Arabs. Even before 1929 Hebron Massacre.
> ...






 And if you bothered to cross reference the incident you would see that it was a blood libel started by the Grand Mufti so that he could start the final solution and rid the world of the Jews.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > post makes no sense. Palestinians are not coming to Europe from the Middle East and definately not due to Israel. Most of the murdering is being done by another arab, namely Assad. Our immigrants are from Kosovo, Syria, Albania. Can't blame that one on the "zionist
> ...






 LIAR as the border crossings are manned by hamas thugs on the gaza side and they often close them to traffic in and out of gaza. They even close them to the aid lorries and fire on them


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Linkiloo said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 Where do most of the muslim immigrants to the UK come from then challenged, as it is not any of the nations bordering Israel is it.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...







 Don't you mean he was invited to come and speak by the Americans ?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 And averted a war that would have led to tens of thousands of civilians being killed. If you read the reports you find that Egypt were ready to invade days before Israel fired the first shot, and were only stopped by Russia telling them they could not support open hostilities on Israel.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






LIAR


 The Israelis shoot smugglers and terrorists posing as fishermen and farmers.  You don't fish for sardines with a cargo net, and you don't farm with an IED.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 So operation dawn was not a blow towards Israel


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dawn_(1967)


*Operation Dawn* was an Egyptian military operation planned to strike the Israeli Air Force, in the prelude to what would become the Six-Day War. The Egyptian attack plan would involve strategic bombing of major ports, the Negev Nuclear Research Center near Dimona, airfields and cities. Arab armies would then attack, effectively cutting Israel in half with an armoured thrust from northern Sinai via the Negev desert.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 BULLSHIT


 Operation dawn   was stopped with seconds to spare by the Russian ambassador to Egypt getting Nasser out of bed to tell him that the Americans knew about the impending attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dawn_(1967)

*Operation Dawn* was an Egyptian military operation planned to strike the Israeli Air Force, in the prelude to what would become the Six-Day War. The Egyptian attack plan would involve strategic bombing of major ports, the Negev Nuclear Research Center near Dimona, airfields and cities. Arab armies would then attack, effectively cutting Israel in half with an armoured thrust from northern Sinai via the Negev desert.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...







 Then why give it all back in return for Peace and mutual borders ?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 16, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 All the time Abdul, just look at what they returned to Egypt in return for peace and mutual borders. They could have emptied the Sinai of oil instead of buying it on the open market.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 16, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


 

NO, dingbat...He was invited when the Israeli ambassador basically "bribed" Boehner into accepting the deal to give the finger to Obama......

In the same way that Palestinians are not all Hamas "lovers".....Many of us are not necessarily kissing the arses of Israelis as you certainly do.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 16, 2015)

[
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 QUOTE="Billo_Really, post: 11200293, member: 2873"]





eagle1462010 said:


> When they fire these weapons of DEFENSE.......LOL..........on a daily business at there neighbors then Israel has every right to confiscate these weapons.


Except for the fact that that is a fantasy and not reality.  The reality is Israel has broken the ceasefire over 400 times since Aug. 26 of last year and the Pals only shot back 5 rockets.  That's a little less than "daily".[/QUOTE]
List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel 2014 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Totals for August[234]
Rockets  950
Killed    2
Injured  19


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 16, 2015)

A song for the anti Semite scum on these boards..........

ENJOY!


----------



## eagle1462010 (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel halts weapons shipment from Iran - BBC News
> ...


aka in your view.......anything they say.................even after showing the pictures to the World Press...................

In other words.....................your just pissed that the weapons didn't make it to Hamas.........

To damned bad.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> There is no legal right to colonise. The presense of the Zionist Paradise in the M.E. means that more Muslims are coming to Europe and America, fatal flaw in your logic there.



Awesome, so according to your mentally ill thinking, the Westerners have EVERY RIGHT to murder any muslims found in the West, and deport the ones they do not murder.  Thanks for letting us know, dogshit.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> The war's not over yet.



Glad to see the c-nt admit its a war, so then the jews and civilized world gets to use military means to destroy the arab muslim attackers.  Thanks for letting us know, dogshit.


----------



## rhodescholar (Apr 16, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Even Assad wouldn't be doing much murdering were it not for western backing for the opposition, but that's a topic for another forum.



LOL, now the dogshit is excusing away assad's barrel bombings and mass slaughters.  How about assad's attacks on Latakia and Yarmouk, are those due to "Western" interference too, you stupid fucking moron?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 17, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






 Then either you are LYING or the American Senate is Lying. My money is on you being the LIAR


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 17, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> [
> 
> 
> 
> ...


List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel 2014 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Totals for August[234]
Rockets  950
Killed    2
Injured  19[/QUOTE]




 Yep he always uses the islamomoron version of events rather than check their words.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



1648


----------



## Challenger (Apr 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


----------



## Challenger (Apr 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Linkiloo said:
> ...


----------



## Challenger (Apr 17, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Given that 74 US senators are technically traitors to the U.S., I'll take that bet.


----------



## Delta4Embassy (Apr 17, 2015)

Israel can be this:
















or this:
















Up to you.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Up to you.




A bit silly....NO ONE on the left is really insinuating that Israel would not exist......but a two state solution, with Palestine as an official state (not a reservation controlled by Israel) MUST be recognized or else the bloodshed continues.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> A song for the anti Semite scum on these boards..........
> 
> ENJOY!




Back at ya.............


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Israel can be this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  You get me a date with one of those Israeli women and I will gladly throw a Palestinian of your choosing under a bus, host a Sadir and convert to Judaism.

What the hell, whenever I've been in bed with a woman like that, I see God anyway!


----------



## Lipush (Apr 17, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> > Up to you.
> ...




Sure. Create this fictional "Palestine" in your neighborhood, with ISIS flag on top

If you're so into this stupid idea.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 17, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Israel can be this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So on the one hand we have  a culture that fixates on women as brainless bimbo sex objects, while on the other  that  fixates on them as wives and mothers. 






Tough decision.

"One in every three Israeli women has been raped or sexually assaulted, according to the latest statistics from the Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel (ARCCI).  Nice girls don t get raped - Features - Jerusalem Post"


----------



## Challenger (Apr 17, 2015)

eagle1462010 said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Anyone can stick a rocket in a box and paint "made in Iran" on it then display it to the "world's press". Show me the footage of the actual seizure, I might be interested.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

Hasbara


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


> Israel can be this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is your point?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2015)




----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

Yeah what's your point:


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> > Israel can be this:
> ...



So because they wear bikinis at the beach, they're bimbos ?  Great logic

It's very ironic that you're talking about treatment of women in Israel in comparison to the Arab world where women are known to be treated like dogs in many areas in the ME.
But since it has nothing to do with Israel or Jews, it doesn't concern you.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Yeah what's your point:


What are you trying to prove by posting this pic ?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 17, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...





 When did Mohamed wipe out the tribe of Jews at medina for no reason ?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 17, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...







 Historical fact

1929 Hebron massacre - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 17, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...






Hamas Fatah bicker over Gaza crossings - Al-Monitor the Pulse of the Middle East#


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 17, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...







_LINK_


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 17, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> > Up to you.
> ...






 Then why hasn't the Palestinians made it so ?


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

"When asked if that means a Palestinian state will not be established if he is elected, Netanyahu said "indeed."

Fox News no less!

Netanyahu trailing in polls promises no Palestinian state if elected Fox News


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

No use arguing with two Israel ass-kissing idiots......

Mohammed turned on the Jewish tribes in Median because ....for just a bit of money....they betrayed Mohammed and opened the gates of the city to enemies of Mohammed's own people.....

Secondly, the Hebron Massacre was sparked by rumors that some Jews had blown up a Mosque in Jerusalem.....Sad occurence, no doubt. But, Muslims did not just wake up one day and decided to kill Jews....As a matter of fact, many Muslims sheltered Jews and avoided further killings.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah what's your point:
> ...


 
*What are you trying to prove by posting this pic ?*

Look at the previous posts, dingbat.........(I swear some of these right wingers are simply idiots.)


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


I know exactly what was said in the previous posts moron. But what does this one pic that these deluded lefties keep posting  of Jewish women wearing veils prove ? 
Lets see if you can answer the question?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


 
I know exactly what was said in the previous posts moron. But what does this one pic that these deluded lefties keep posting of Jewish women wearing veils prove ?
Lets see if you can answer the question?


*But what does this one pic that these deluded lefties keep posting of Jewish women wearing veils prove ? 
Lets see if you can answer the question?*

Simple to "answer" your question, dingbat....I'll type real slow so that you can keep up (or ask a grown up to explain it to you)

One of YOUR right wing ilk, posted pictures of bimbos asking if we wanted to instead see Arab women dressed in burkas.....someone else responded with that above picture showing that Jewsih orthodox women _ALSO_ cover themselves from head-to-toe...

If you still can't understand, find another hobby....Dolt !!!


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > nat4900 said:
> ...



Wow, you're dumber than I thought. The pic of Jews that was posted has been used 100 times, and is the only one deluded lefties can find of Jewish woman dressed like that.
I , and I'm sure you and everyone else, have never ever seen Jewish women dressed like that, and I've been to Israel 12 times. 

So, thanks you for showing your ignorance deluded leftist, but that pic proved NOTHING. Except that you're as gullible and brainwashed as the other lefties here. 
Fail.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> nat4900 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...


 

Well, toasty, you know what you can do with your yarmulke?????

That's right, all the way up there......LOL


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

So, your complaint is that there isn't enough variety in the photos of Jewish women wearing veils?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

[B]toastman[/B] said:


> Wow, you're dumber than I thought.* The pic of Jews that was posted has been used 100 times*




Maybe this dolt, toasty has a problem with 101 times...
You think?


----------



## Penelope (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> So, your complaint is that there isn't enough variety in the photos of Jewish women wearing veils?



They are the ones the Israelites don't want to live in the same building with I read. They are anti semitic of their own.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

OMG These pics prove so much !!!! 



Why is it that I or anyone else that I know have never seen a Jewish woman dressed like that before ??
Because it is not a tradition for them to do so and that's what we're discussing here. It is traditional for Muslim women to do so, but not Jewish women.
So if you think you think that these pics prove otherwise, well then I have a bridge to sell you...


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

I only post fact Toast, you know that.  Fact is not propaganda.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> I only post fact Toast, you know that.  Fact is not propaganda.


You do post facts. But that doesn't mean that all your posts are facts.

That goes for every other poster as well


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

I only post text from official documents from governmental or academic archives to support my claims.  If my claims are contradicted by the official facts, I want to know.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> I only post text from official documents from governmental or academic archives to support my claims.  If my claims are contradicted by the official facts, I want to know.



I'm talking about your post where you give your opinion....

Not all of them are true.... That goes for me as well...


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

If I give an opinion it is based on facts that are in the archived documents.  Just like the Ottoman documents that demonstrated that the Europeans attacked and murdered the local people well before any killing of Jews.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> If I give an opinion it is based on facts that are in the archived documents.  Just like the Ottoman documents that demonstrated that the Europeans attacked and murdered the local people well before any killing of Jews.


You never provided any proof that Jews killed Arabs before the vice versa occured.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

I posted a link to the article from a Jewish newspaper that stated that legal documents found in Turkish archives confirmed the fact.  Do i have go look for that again?


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

I found it Toast.

*"Petitions sent by locals to the Ottoman sultan in Istanbul reveal the complexity of early encounters between local villagers and new European immigrants."*


"As in so many incidents that enfolded in the early years of Zionism, often *researchers have only had access to the version of events written by the Jewish side.* At times, one could find another narrative – the official account of events as recorded by the local Ottoman administration. Still, a new document referring to the Zarnuka incident was discovered recently by researcher Yuval Ben Bassat, in the Istanbul Archives, a petition written to Sultan Mehmet V by heads of families in the area....The petitioners present themselves as, "We, the residents of villages neighboring with the Jewish colonies of Daran [Rehovot] and Lun Kara (Rishon Leztion)," and complain that the Jews "wanted to strip the camel owner of their clothes, money and camels, but these men refused to give their camels and escaped from Lun Kara with their camels, protecting each other [to seek refuge with] men of the law… T*he above mentioned Jews attacked our villages, robbed and looted our property, killed and even *damaged the family honor, all this in a manner we find hard to put in words."

New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements - Israel News Haaretz


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> I found it Toast.
> 
> *"Petitions sent by locals to the Ottoman sultan in Istanbul reveal the complexity of early encounters between local villagers and new European immigrants."*
> 
> ...


What year did these alleged attacks take place ?


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> What year did these alleged attacks take place ?




Turn of the 20th century...approximately 1912-15...and skip the "alleged" adjective.


----------



## nat4900 (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> *researchers have only had access to the version of events written by the Jewish side*
> 
> 
> > Indeed, my friend....that bolded part is very important...


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > What year did these alleged attacks take place ?
> ...


Where does it say that ?


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

Well, Toast when were the Ottomans in charge.  It certainly wasn't after WW1, was it.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Well, Toast when were the Ottomans in charge.  It certainly wasn't after WW1, was it.



Monti, the example you provided is of Arab villagers claiming they were attacked and killed. Also, it still does not precede the examples of Arabs killing Jews before that happened in the late 1800's that I have provided.
Your example is not a documented killing, just a claim by some villagers.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

Since you have only had propaganda to relate to, the end of the article tells it all:

"This is the first time we see how they describe things from their point of view, "Ben Bassat says." It's not a matter of being for or against Zionism – it simply shows how complex this meeting was, and that can't be learned anywhere else."

New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements - Israel News Haaretz


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Since you have only had propaganda to relate to, the end of the article tells it all:
> 
> "This is the first time we see how they describe things from their point of view, "Ben Bassat says." It's not a matter of being for or against Zionism – it simply shows how complex this meeting was, and that can't be learned anywhere else."
> 
> New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements - Israel News Haaretz


What propaganda are you talking about Monti ? It seems that whenever I provide you with facts that you don't like, you accuse me of posting propaganda.
The fact STILL remains that the first documented massacre was of Arabs killing Jews. Deal with it


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Well, Toast when were the Ottomans in charge.  It certainly wasn't after WW1, was it.
> ...



Well the Europeans killed the locals first, but it doesn't really matter.  Locals are simply defending themselves from colonizers can't you understand that basic concept?  Even if the local people killed the European colonizers first, they had every right to do so.  Just as the Native Americans had the same right.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



No, Arabs killed Jews first, as I have proved many times.

Ah, now you are claiming it was ok for Arabs to massacre Jews because they were unhappy with their presence  You're using that excuse because you cannot handle the fact that Arabs started the hostilities. I can tell by reading your posts that it's killing you.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

Also, in the examples of Arabs massacring Jews that I have provided, can you show me where it says they were defending themselves?


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Since you have only had propaganda to relate to, the end of the article tells it all:
> ...



The first documented killing was of the Europeans killing the locals, as stated in the article.  But it does not matter.  Europeans attempting to settle a country with other people living in the place, with the intention of taking the land and creating a colony are the aggressors.  Why can't you understand that?


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> Also, in the examples of Arabs massacring Jews that I have provided, can you show me where it says they were defending themselves?



They came from Europe to take the land for themselves.  There were no massacres, just defending their land from Europeans.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


y
No, your article does not provide any evidence of a documented killing. If it was documented, what was the name of the event ? 
And in the attacks taking place, there was no land being taken awaya nd it was not Arabs defending themselves. You are simply making that up because you cannot handle the truth.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Also, in the examples of Arabs massacring Jews that I have provided, can you show me where it says they were defending themselves?
> ...


.
Then prove to me that the massacres I provided to you were Arabs defending themselves from getting land taken away.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

Were the Zionists not planning to to establish a state in Palestine?


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Were the Zionists not planning to to establish a state in Palestine?



Like the British promised them, yes.

Your point ? 

You are basically saying that because of this, all Jews were targets.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 17, 2015)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Were the Zionists not planning to to establish a state in Palestine?
> ...



How could the British promise land in the Middle East that others were living on to Europeans?  That is insane.


----------



## toastman (Apr 17, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


Because the British were the successors of the war and could do whatever they want with it. Do you think that it was the only time land was partition post war ??, 

What's wrong with the British promising the Jews their own country, specially considering how many countries Arab Muslims have ? Not to mention the region was not under Arab control and Arabs never had any sovereignty over the land. They just owned land and lived there.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> "When asked if that means a Palestinian state will not be established if he is elected, Netanyahu said "indeed."
> 
> Fox News no less!
> 
> Netanyahu trailing in polls promises no Palestinian state if elected Fox News





 From your link the truth that you dont want others to know


 In an interview published Monday in the nrg news website, Netahyahu said *withdrawing from occupied areas to make way for a Palestinian state would only ensure that territory will be taken over by Islamic extremists*. When asked if that means a Palestinian state will not be established if he is elected, Netanyahu said "indeed."



 Only a complete idiot would try and claim this meant NEVER.   Are you a complete idiot Abdul ?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> No use arguing with two Israel ass-kissing idiots......
> 
> Mohammed turned on the Jewish tribes in Median because ....for just a bit of money....they betrayed Mohammed and opened the gates of the city to enemies of Mohammed's own people.....
> 
> Secondly, the Hebron Massacre was sparked by rumors that some Jews had blown up a Mosque in Jerusalem.....Sad occurence, no doubt. But, Muslims did not just wake up one day and decided to kill Jews....As a matter of fact, many Muslims sheltered Jews and avoided further killings.





 Read the hadiths and see what they say about it before showing your stupidity.   The Hebron massacre was sparked because of a BLOOD LIBEL started by the Grand Mufti that Jews had murdered muslims at the west wall and were marching on the Temple mount.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 If they owned the land they could do what they wanted with it, and anyone living on it without their permission had no legal footing to claim ownership.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> I only post fact Toast, you know that.  Fact is not propaganda.






 It is when it is used wrongly to define another meaning to that intended.  So you post propaganda because you manipulate fact


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> I only post text from official documents from governmental or academic archives to support my claims.  If my claims are contradicted by the official facts, I want to know.





 You have been shown all the time, and all you do is hide the parts that disagree with your POV.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> I found it Toast.
> 
> *"Petitions sent by locals to the Ottoman sultan in Istanbul reveal the complexity of early encounters between local villagers and new European immigrants."*
> 
> ...





 Yep supposition and Islamic blood libel without any supporting evidence to back it up. It could have been a ploy to get the authorities to do the dirty work after the muslims had attacked the Jews first and the Jews retaliated in kind killing some of the attacckers. Remember muslims have a term for this that roughly translates to Lies and Deciet   or Kithman and Taqiya.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

nat4900 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > What year did these alleged attacks take place ?
> ...






 Why there is no supporting evidence so they are alleged incidents


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Well, Toast when were the Ottomans in charge.  It certainly wasn't after WW1, was it.






 For about 600 years prior to this was when the first took charge, so it could have been at any time in that period.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Since you have only had propaganda to relate to, the end of the article tells it all:
> 
> "This is the first time we see how they describe things from their point of view, "Ben Bassat says." It's not a matter of being for or against Zionism – it simply shows how complex this meeting was, and that can't be learned anywhere else."
> 
> New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements - Israel News Haaretz






 So any time from 1850 up to 1916 is when this took place, and there are reports of Jewish mass murders from the beginning of Ottoman rule .


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 And the invited migrants had the right to defend themselves and kill their attackers. And they cant be colonisers if they can trace their ancestry back 4000 years on the same land.

 See you are posting propaganda again, and RACIST LIES.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 Was it indeed that explain these reported and verified massacres


1517 Hebron attacks - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

1517 Safed attacks - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

1660 destruction of Safed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



 All before Zionism and the alleged Jewish colonisation


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Also, in the examples of Arabs massacring Jews that I have provided, can you show me where it says they were defending themselves?
> ...






 How about supported evidence of this propaganda from a non partisan source


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Were the Zionists not planning to to establish a state in Palestine?






 Only after the legal land owners had broached the subject and allocated land for that purpose


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 How can you being a land owner promise your land to someone else while people are living on it. Just because they live there does not mean they own the land. I could buy the house over the road from me and put my daughter in and the occupiers could not do a thing.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...




I have posted links to the UN archives, academic archives and many other neutral sources that confirm that The European Jews went to Palestine with the intention of colonizing the land and establishing a Jewish state.  

If you believe that the Jews went to Palestine as tourists intent on leaving after a bit of sightseeing, then you provide the link to a non-partisan source that supports that contention.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Were the Zionists not planning to to establish a state in Palestine?
> ...



The legal owners did not allocate land for that purpose.  The Mandatory is not the legal owner of the land entrusted to it.   The Mandate merely put the former Ottoman lands in trust with the Mandatories.  In terms of deeded ownership,  the Arabs owned 85% of the land anyway as has been proven many times. Next.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Since the Mandatory was not the owner of the land what is your point.  And since the Arabs owned over 85% of the land as late as 1945, you wouldn't have a point anyway.


----------



## Penelope (Apr 18, 2015)

The suez canal had a lot to do with it, that the Rothschild's and Britain ended up owning it , I don't have time to look for my articles now, but the Suez Canal was the original reason, and after the WW II it was that the British themselves did not want the Jews from Russia, so they said they could go to Palestine, but never that it was to be complete Zionist state but to live among the occupants there.



> Scott continued to reason that there should be a Zionist state in Palestine because, “Palestine has a special importance for Great Britain because in the hands of a hostile Power, it can be made…a secure base which a land attack on Egypt can be organised…” Therefore, it is in Britain’s interest that “no Power should be seated in Palestine” that “is likely to be hostile” to British Imperialism - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/the-suez-canal-and-the-british-empires-need-for-the-balfour-declaration#sthash.7xUcH0sI.dpuf




The Suez Canal and the British empire s need for the Balfour Declaration Mondoweiss


----------



## Challenger (Apr 18, 2015)

toastman said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Delta4Embassy said:
> ...



That's not what I said, read my post carefully. The women themselves are not bimbos, they are treated as such by the culture they live in. The phrase "Sex Sells" was coined in the west, remember, where women are seen more as sex objects than human beings. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/h...-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html?_r=0


----------



## Penelope (Apr 18, 2015)

Hollywood and Fox news are examples of  "sex sells"


----------



## Challenger (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



You mean the Banu Qurayza?  627CE although some historians believe this is a myth.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I was referring to this..."a blood libel started by the Grand Mufti so that he could start the final solution and rid the world of the Jews."...another Phoney Fantasy.


----------



## Challenger (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Once again, no substantiation, just a random link  about a Hamas-Fatah spat after the last Zionist perpetrated massacre of civillians in Gaza. No sign of anything there that says, 

"they often close them to traffic in and out of gaza. They even close them to the aid lorries and fire on them."  

Another Phoney Fantasy.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 How about supported evidence of this propaganda from non partisan sources. And you have yet to prove that this is the case


----------



## Challenger (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Petition Seeks Treason Charges For 47 U.S. Senators For Trying To Sabotage Iran Deal


----------



## Challenger (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Phoney, are you trying to move the goalposts again? Naughty, naughty


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 YES THEY DID and it was entered into International law in 1923 when they issued the Mandate for Palestine, not to be confused with the British mandate. Two separate and distinct animals.

 No you have only ever proved that they were in possession of the land, just as a thief can be in possession of your car until he is caught and you get it back. Read your link again Abdul as that is exactly what it says


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...





 But the LoN was and they entered it into the mandate and it then entered into International law.

 They did not own the land at all, they only possessed it, read your links again Abdul and you will that this is the definition used.  So you lose again


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...







 Not according to the hadiths that spells out the facts.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...





1929 Hebron massacre - Conservapedia
  During the summer of 1929, however, the Islamic Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and head of the Supreme Muslim Council, Haj Amin al-Husseini, began to agitate the Arabs to riot against the Jewish community, distributing leaflets and stirring up anti-Jewish sentiment. Among these were leaflets stating that the Jews were planning to take over the al-Aqsa Mosque.[7] Another stated: "Hearts are in tumult because of these barbaric deeds, and the people began to break out in shouts of 'war, Jihad... rebellion.'... O Arab nation, the eyes of your brothers in Palestine are upon you... and they awaken your religious feelings and national zealotry to rise up against the enemy who violated the honor of Islam and raped the women and murdered widows and babies."


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 You asked for a link you got a link.   Much more than you ever do


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Of course they owned 85% of the land, as documented in the Anglo-American Committee's Survey of Palestine which was referenced in 181. It's been uploaded dozens of times, so just the link is provided:

A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 Now how about a proper link and not some made up story


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

Challenger said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







 Do show where as I always ask Abdul to supply this

 YOU LOSE AGAIN


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Conservapedia? LOL  How about something Zionipedia?


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Of course they owned 85% of the land, as documented in the Anglo-American Committee's Survey of Palestine which was referenced in 181. It's been uploaded dozens of times, so just the link is provided:
> 
> A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 Berman Jewish Policy Archive NYU Wagner






 NO the were in possession they did not own, read your link again.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Challenger said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



That is the link to the Berman Jewish Policy Archive to download the volume.  It just contains facts, the truth will set you free. When will you ever link to an Arab archive site.  I link to Jewish sites to make my points.  Must get to you. LOL


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 An American site Abdul, better than your RACIST LIES AND PROPAGANDA


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Of course they owned 85% of the land, as documented in the Anglo-American Committee's Survey of Palestine which was referenced in 181. It's been uploaded dozens of times, so just the link is provided:
> ...



No, it says "ownership".  You are such a tool. LOL


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...






 And the fact it states is that the arabs POSSESSED but did not OWN the land.


----------



## toastman (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Challenger said:
> ...


This was one of the first documented massacres against Jews by Palestinians, proving they started the aggression.


----------



## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




Yeah right, Conservapedia.  In your mind facts from official reports in archives is propaganda and propaganda is truth.  Doublespeak at its best.


----------



## Phoenall (Apr 18, 2015)

montelatici said:


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 Then post it for all to see and we can all have a good laugh at your stupidity.


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## toastman (Apr 18, 2015)

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What's wrong with the site ??


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## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

toastman said:


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Firstly, people being colonized cannot, by definition, start the aggression.  The aggression begins when people intent on colonizing land upon which others live go to that land.  But, Ottoman archives show that the colonists killed Arabs prior to 1929.


"As in so many incidents that enfolded in the early years of Zionism, often* researchers have only had access to the version of events written by the Jewish side*. At times, one could find another narrative – the official account of events as recorded by the local Ottoman administration. Still, a new document referring to the Zarnuka incident was discovered recently by researcher Yuval Ben Bassat, in the Istanbul Archives, a petition written to Sultan Mehmet V by heads of families in the area.

The petitioners present themselves as, "We, the residents of villages neighboring with the Jewish colonies of Daran [Rehovot] and Lun Kara (Rishon Leztion)," and complain that the Jews "wanted to strip the camel owner of their clothes, money and camels, but these men refused to give their camels and escaped from Lun Kara with their camels, protecting each other [to seek refuge with] men of the law… *The above mentioned Jews *attacked our villages, robbed and looted our property, *killed *and even damaged the family honor, all this in a manner we find hard to put in words."



New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements - Israel News Haaretz


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## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

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What political leanings would a site called Conservopedia have?  Maybe you would consider a site called Nazipedia reliable, or Liberalpedia.


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## toastman (Apr 18, 2015)

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There was no colonization going on at the time of the massacres. Your example does not show a date and is not a documented massacre AND Jews were massacred in the late 1800's . So assuming your example was during the Ottoman period, it still doesn't pre date my examples. 
Read the Hebron Massacre link. It has NOTHING to do with colonization. Those Jews were killed, tortured and beheaded because false information being passed around that they were going to take over the Western Wall.


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## toastman (Apr 18, 2015)

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Ahh, so you judge the site based on its name, without even looking into it. Good job Monti!


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## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

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Of course it is a documented massacre, it was documented by the Ottoman courts/adminsitration.

What were the Jews doing in Palestine were they tourists?


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## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

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No I judge sites by their editors and content:

*"Conservapedia* is an English-language wiki encyclopedia project written from a hard American conservative and fundamentalist Christian point of view.[3] The website was started in 2006 by American homeschool teacher and attorney Andrew Schlafly, son of conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly,[4][5] to counter what he perceived as a liberal bias present in Wikipedia.[6][7] It uses editorials and a wiki-based system to generate content."

Conservapedia - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


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## Challenger (Apr 18, 2015)

toastman said:


> OMG These pics prove so much !!!!
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Muslim women have a variety of traditional clothing, depending on where they come from

Traditional Palestinian, for example:


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## toastman (Apr 18, 2015)

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Yes, I know that. I never said that ALL Muslim women cover themselves entirely.

Like you said, depends where they come from. Different areas in Muslim states have different traditions.


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## toastman (Apr 18, 2015)

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A documented massacre would have a name and separate article about it. Your example is just say so from some Arabs in the region.


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## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

It is documented in the Ottoman archives.  If you define "documented" as being in article in Wiki, I can write an article on the massacre tonight and it would be in Wiki.


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## aris2chat (Apr 18, 2015)

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battle and mass execution was not myth.  The myth was his living in peace

Andrew G. Bostom, "The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of non-Muslims"
M.J. Kister, “The Massacre of the Banu Qurayza: A Re-examination of a Tradition” 
Edomond Fagnan, "The Dhimmi -- Jews and Christians under Islam"
W.H.T. Gardiner, “Muhammad without Camouflage"


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## aris2chat (Apr 18, 2015)

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ROFLOL
Those are not palestinian.  They are from the metn and northern lebanon.  They are specific to certain tribes and regions up there.

They are not southern and certainly not palestinian.
They are copies of wood prints portraying Lebanese princesses and dancers.  I own copies of most of those prints.  The colors and fabric patterns I recognize from Lebanese mountain tribes that make them. The cone hats are shorter than tradition but that is the only difference.


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## montelatici (Apr 18, 2015)

ROFL.  Then they are Lebanese visiting the Church of the Nativity.  You are always so full of shit.

Traditional Palestinian Clothing in Bethlehem Demotix.com


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## Challenger (Apr 19, 2015)

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Interesting. The above quote states that the Grand Mufti..."began to agitate the Arabs to riot against the Jewish community, distributing leaflets and stirring up anti-Jewish sentiment." Citing "note 7" [7] as evidence. This leads me to an "op. cit." citing the work "One Palestine, Complete," by Tom Segev, a well respected Israeli historian. Mr. Segev covers the Jerusalem-Hebron Riots of 1929 in great detail, (pages 314-327 for those of you like me who have a copy of his book) and *nowhere* does he say anything approximating what is said in Conservapedia. In fact, using British and U.S. private diplomatic sources, Segev claims that the Mufti did all he could to prevent any trouble in 1929 as he had done previously during every Nebi-musa festival after the 1920 riots. 

Another Phoney Phantasy debunked. Next.


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## Challenger (Apr 19, 2015)

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Although my point was to illustrate that not all Muslim women wear burqas, hijabs, etc. Costume being dependant on region and culture. Here are some period photos of Palestinian women in the 1920s and 30s, they look pretty similar to me, but I'm sure you'll be able to provide evidence to support *your* assertions.


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## toastman (Apr 19, 2015)

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I always thought you were a guy.


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## aris2chat (Apr 19, 2015)

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Review of One Palestine Complete Jews and Arabs under the British Mandate Middle East Quarterly

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/feb/03/history.politics

One Palestine Complete Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate Tom Segev - Lee - 2010 - Digest of Middle East Studies - Wiley Online Library

He was a journalist for Haaretz


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## Phoenall (Apr 19, 2015)

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 Just as Ottoman histories also show that muslims massacred Jews before Zionism was invented. And where is your corroborative evidence to support the islamonazi claims ?


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## Phoenall (Apr 19, 2015)

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As in conservative or conserving for future generations, and not a political movement. But even if it was it would be more reliable than islamopedia


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## Phoenall (Apr 19, 2015)

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 No they were living there as full Ottoman citizens, or as invited migrants. So the muslims had no right to attack them


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## Phoenall (Apr 19, 2015)

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 So a Christian site, should be right up your street, and fully acceptable seeing as you say you are a Christian.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 19, 2015)

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Not all Christians are wacko Christians.


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## Phoenall (Apr 19, 2015)

montelatici said:


> It is documented in the Ottoman archives.  If you define "documented" as being in article in Wiki, I can write an article on the massacre tonight and it would be in Wiki.






 No we define documented as coming from more than just one partisan source


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## Challenger (Apr 19, 2015)

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He was a journalist for Maariv, he writes a column in Haaretz, but is not employed there as a journalist. He was a visiting professor at Rutgers University between 2001–2002 and the University of California at Berkeley in 2007 and taught a course on Holocaust denial at the Northeastern University.

I liked Mordechai Lee's, comment in the last link you posted, 

"At last an Israeli author has written a history of Israel/Palestine which treats both sides as right, wrong, wronged, heroic and self delusional-all in equal parts."  One Palestine Complete Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate Tom Segev - Lee - 2010 - Digest of Middle East Studies - Wiley Online Library


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## Challenger (Apr 19, 2015)

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"As in conservative or conserving for future generations..."  The truth:
Christian fundamentalists in the US have launched two online encyclopedias modelled on the Wikipedia format. Conservapedia and CreationWiki aim to explain the world from a creationist perspective. They make entertaining reading. Wikipedia for Christian Fundamentalists The Lord s Encyclopedia - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Another Phoney Phantasy debunked! Next.


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## montelatici (Apr 19, 2015)

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The only source you have presented are Jewish sources as stated


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Bullshit.


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## montelatici (Apr 19, 2015)

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Not a fundamentalist Christian Zionist site.


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## montelatici (Apr 19, 2015)

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You define documented as coming from a Zionist sources.  As stated in the article:

"As in so many incidents that enfolded in the early years of Zionism, often researchers have only had access to the version of events written by the Jewish side."

New documents reveal early Palestinian attitudes toward Zionist settlements - Israel News Haaretz


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## Phoenall (Apr 20, 2015)

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 Do you want them posting again then Abdul, so you will have to eat crow ?


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## Phoenall (Apr 20, 2015)

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Why not the Ctholics to many are fundementalists aren't they ?


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## Phoenall (Apr 20, 2015)

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 Read again unsubstantiated one source documents are propaganda, the same report fro a multitude of sources is not propaganda.  When you learn that you will have been banned again for spamming a board.


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## montelatici (Apr 20, 2015)

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Yes, please do. LOL


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## montelatici (Apr 20, 2015)

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Is that English?  But, the documents are substantiated by Jewish researchers, the source is an Israeli newspaper and Phoney thinks it is anti_Israel propaganda. You can't make this stuff up.


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## Phoenall (Apr 20, 2015)

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 Laugh all you want when too many complaints are received we will see who laughs then


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## Phoenall (Apr 20, 2015)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Aleppo_(1850)

 Start with that one before Zionists arrived in palestine


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## Phoenall (Apr 20, 2015)

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 Yes it is, but you not being English wont be able to read it

 Means nothing at all if you only have one source. By the way the source is the author and not the medium used to portray the report. So the medium might be a Jewish newspaper while the author could well be an islamonazi terrorist LIAR


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## montelatici (Apr 20, 2015)

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No, Catholics are not Christian Fundamentalists.  We are quite different.  Just some difference.  Supporting the death penalty is a sin for us.  We also cannot discriminate against (or hate) homosexuals.  We believe in evolution.


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## montelatici (Apr 20, 2015)

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What complaints Phoney, and complaints about what.  You are the one abusing other posters left and right.


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## montelatici (Apr 20, 2015)

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But the author is Jewish. Are Jews that disagree with you islamonazis too.


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## Phoenall (Apr 21, 2015)

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 Yet Catholics "execute" many people all over the world, even in the USA. Their leader has issued many "bulls" against homosexuals and has made it an offence in the eyes of the church. Do you really then why did mankind begin with Adam and Eve as is taught by Catholics when evolution shows that we started millions of years before they were invented.

 Your grasp of Catholicism is sadly lacking in all aspects and proves you are a muslim


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## Phoenall (Apr 21, 2015)

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 Off Topic posting

 Spamming

 Trolling

 Flaming

 Just for starters, maybe you should read the rules and take in what they say


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## Phoenall (Apr 21, 2015)

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Check again Abdul

from your link we see this    a petition written to Sultan Mehmet V by heads of families in the area    making it islamomoron propaganda as the original authors were muslims.


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## Challenger (Apr 21, 2015)

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Erm...have you read your link, Phoney....no mention of Jewish people, just Christians.


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## Challenger (Apr 21, 2015)

Phoenall said:


> Just for starters, maybe you should read the rules and take in what they say



I will when you do.


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## montelatici (Jun 26, 2015)

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> > View attachment 39410



http://www.bjpa.org/Publications/downloadFile.cfm?FileID=17185


Page 556


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## Phoenall (Jun 26, 2015)

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 Same old crap that has been shown to be invalid and from a paid islamonazi source


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