# Second amendment sanctury led to Colorado massacre



## Tommy Tainant (Nov 22, 2022)

How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
					

Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club




					www.independent.co.uk
				




_*But the sheriff's department in El Paso county, where Mr Aldrich was arrested, has declared itself politically opposed to the law and refuses to let its officers petition for such orders except in special circumstances.
*_
*In 2019, it joined nearly 2,000 counties across the US in declaring itself a "Second Amendment Sanctuary", saying the red flag law "infringes upon the inalienable rights of law-abiding citizens".*

If politically motivated law enforcement refuse to enforce the law then bad things happen. The sherriff should be tried as an accessory.


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

I can't read the article but red flag laws are highly unconstitutional.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


cant free the slaves without spilling a little blood,,

queers need guns too,,


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## sealybobo (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> I can't read the article but red flag laws are highly unconstitutional.


I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.

Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home

If he made a bomb threat, that should be a reason why you can't get a gun for at least the next 5 or 10 years.  

It is not immediately clear how the bomb threat case was resolved, but the Colorado Springs Gazette reported the district attorney’s office said no formal charges were pursued in the case.

They got to stop throwing these cases out.  Charge them.  Have a record of their crazy behavior and have that be the reason they don't get a gun.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.
> 
> Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home
> 
> ...


2nd amendment says different


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## Penelope (Nov 22, 2022)

You don't need military rifles, no one does.


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## Anathema (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> If politically motivated law enforcement refuse to enforce the law then bad things happen. The sherriff should be tried as an accessory


The law is unconstitutional, and highly immoral. We aren’t supposed to be restricting people’s Rights until/unless they have been CONVICTED of a crime.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


yes everyone needs the best military rifles available since thats what the 2nd amendment was for,,


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.
> 
> Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home
> 
> ...



How do you create such a law that lines up with the 2nd amendment?

Convict them of a damn felony. Problem solved.


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## Penelope (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> yes everyone needs the best military rifles available since thats what the 2nd amendment was for,,


I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.


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## shockedcanadian (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...



You mean like Sanctuary Cities where illegal entrants from places unknown can run around and freely sell poisons, drink and drive or murder?


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## theHawk (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


It wasn’t a military rifle you fucking idiot.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.


and saviors of freedom also have military weapons,,

you live with the freedom they supplied today


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## theHawk (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> yes everyone needs the best military rifles available since thats what the 2nd amendment was for,,


Very true!

The Second Amendment isn‘t for hunting or even self-defense, it’s to overthrow the government.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> How do you create such a law that lines up with the 2nd amendment?
> 
> Convict them of a damn felony. Problem solved.


what felony did you committ this week and dont even know it??


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## Penelope (Nov 22, 2022)

shockedcanadian said:


> You mean like Sanctuary Cities where illegal entrants from places unknown can run around and freely sell poisons, drink and drive or murder?


He was a Maga, they get guns anyway they can get guns.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.



You can kill with a hammer, are carpenters killers?


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.


 
 If you get due process and a court rules that way, all is good. Red flag laws ignore people have a right to due process.




sealybobo said:


> Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home
> 
> If he made a bomb threat, that should be a reason why you can't get a gun for at least the next 5 or 10 years.
> 
> ...



 I cant read the link so I do not know the specifics about his case and said what I said in general.


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## Penelope (Nov 22, 2022)

theHawk said:


> Very true!
> 
> The Second Amendment isn‘t for hunting or even self-defense, it’s to overthrow the government.


You said that, so true.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> If you get due process and a court rules that way, all is good. Red flag laws ignore people have a right to due process.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And with the ones in blue states they make sure it takes years for a person to contest any court writ denying them their 2nd amendment rights. 

anyone wrongly accused should be able to sue the government AND the accuser for damages.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> what felony did you committ this week and dont even know it??



CONVICTED, not accused, and yes, the over-legislated state of our country is an issue. 

Felons lose their right to vote, to freedom, and others, losing their RKBA is just one facet.


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> And with the ones in blue states they make sure it takes years for a person to contest any court writ denying them their 2nd amendment rights.
> 
> anyone wrongly accused should be able to sue the government AND the accuser for damages.



 No, looking to the courts to protect your rights is NOT how we protect rights. We just do. Your is the same argument others have argued when people are faced with the police violating their rights.

 "Just let them violate them and hope the courts fix things".

 No.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> CONVICTED, not accused, and yes, the over-legislated state of our country is an issue.
> 
> Felons lose their right to vote, to freedom, and others, losing their RKBA is just one facet.


thats not what the 2nd A says,,

you either support the 2nd or you dont,,


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## shockedcanadian (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> You can kill with a hammer, are carpenters killers?



Well, an interesting statement,   I say this in jest but I bet you there has been a carpenter by profession who has killed someone with a hammer before.  Therefore, yes, carpenters are killers.

Your statement raises more of a critique of inductive reasoning we hear from so many much to my chagrin as it simplifies their argument for more restrictions:

carpenter uses a hammer
hammers are used in murders
therefore, all carpenters are murderers


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## Tommy Tainant (Nov 22, 2022)

theHawk said:


> Very true!
> 
> The Second Amendment isn‘t for hunting or even self-defense, it’s to overthrow the government.


And shooting trannies.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> And shooting trannies.


trannies need guns too,,


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## Tommy Tainant (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> thats not what the 2nd A says,,
> 
> you either support the 2nd or you dont,,


The second references a well regulated  militia. Which militia was  he a part of ?


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> The second references a well regulated  militia. Which militia was  he a part of ?


that is just a qualifier for why all americans need to be armed in case they need to step up and join a militia,,

if you were american you would know that,, but sadly you are the people that our militias kicked their asses and sent them packing,,


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## whitehall (Nov 22, 2022)

The red flag law was in place regardless of how the Sheriff felt about it. The problem was that the liberal judge dismissed several felonies and sealed the records so this nut case was able to purchase a firearm. What's the left wing solution? Confiscation? Interesting to note that Pennsylvania elected a nut case who also lived in his mothers basement and once chased an innocent black guy down the street with a shotgun, to the U.S. Senate and democrats thought it was fine as long as he was a democrat.. So it ain't about firearms, it's about political power.


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

whitehall said:


> The red flag law was in place regardless of how the Sheriff felt about it. The problem was that the liberal judge dismissed several felonies and sealed the records so this nut case was able to purchase a firearm. What's the left wing solution? Confiscation? Interesting to note that Pennsylvania elected a nut case who also lived in his mothers basement and once chased an innocent black guy down the street with a shotgun, to the U.S. Senate and democrats thought it was fine as long as he was a democrat.. So it ain't about firearms, it's about political power.



 Here again is a huge example of the problem. We have many dead people and you default to your partisan politics.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> No, looking to the courts to protect your rights is NOT how we protect rights. We just do. Your is the same argument others have argued when people are faced with the police violating their rights.
> 
> "Just let them violate them and hope the courts fix things".
> 
> No.



That would eliminate the ability of police to arrest suspects. How do you propose that works?


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> thats not what the 2nd A says,,
> 
> you either support the 2nd or you dont,,



Absolutists are idiots. It's like trying to use the Ideal Gas Law to design a fractioning distillation column.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

shockedcanadian said:


> Well, an interesting statement,   I say this in jest but I bet you there has been a carpenter by profession who has killed someone with a hammer before.  Therefore, yes, carpenters are killers.
> 
> Your statement raises more of a critique of inductive reasoning we hear from so many much to my chagrin as it simplifies their argument for more restrictions:
> 
> ...



I've had one throw a hammer at another worker on one of my sites. He was charged with assault.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Absolutists are idiots. It's like trying to use the Ideal Gas Law to design a fractioning distillation column.


you just say that because it hurts your feelings,, facts dont care about your feelings,,,


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> you just say that because it hurts your feelings,, facts dont care about your feelings,,,



I say it because it's reality, not some ivory tower argument on inherent rights and their limits.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> I say it because it's reality, not some ivory tower argument on inherent rights and their limits.


if the dems get their way reality will be none of us will be able to own any weapon let alone a gun,,

so why are you helping the dems with their agenda??


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## CarsomyrPlusSix (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


But what if I need to kill some assholes who are attacking me?

Or if I want to do target practice?

Or if I think they look pretty as decoration?


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> if the dems get their way reality will be none of us will be able to own any weapon let alone a gun,,
> 
> so why are you helping the dems with their agenda??



How am I doing that?


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> How am I doing that?


by giving an inch when they respond by taking a mile,,

no one said freedom is easy or safe,, we allow idiots to drive cars while they are killing thousands of people a yr and driving is not even a right,,


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> by giving an inch when they respond by taking a mile,,
> 
> no one said freedom is easy or safe,, we allow idiots to drive cars while they are killing thousands of people a yr and driving is not even a right,


How is saying convicted felons can't have guns giving an inch?


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> How is saying convicted felons can't have guns giving an inch?


its led to red flag laws which is pre crime and a mile for them,,

why is it idiots are allowed to drive cars and kill people when its not a right but someone that made a mistake is not allowed a gun when it is a right??


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> That would eliminate the ability of police to arrest suspects. How do you propose that works?



 No it wouldn't. I have no idea why you would say this. From what I read the police had reasons to arrest this man in the past.


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> How is saying convicted felons can't have guns giving an inch?



 "Convicted". If they were convicted they were gave their due process rights.

 Yes, some even then argue you can not remove that right but that's because they only read the 2nd, not the entire Constitution.


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## Ivan88 (Nov 22, 2022)

If Americans really believed in Peace, they would disarm Congress which has been egaged in habitual mass murder for over 122 years.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> "Convicted". If they were convicted they were gave their due process rights.
> 
> Yes, some even then argue you can not remove that right but that's because they only read the 2nd, not the entire Constitution.


youre forgetting that when they pay their debt to society and no longer in prison or on parole they should get all their rights back,,

their debt has been paid,,


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

Ivan88 said:


> If Americans really believed in Peace, they would disarm Congress which has been egaged in habitual mass murder for over 122 years.


thats a whole new can of worms,, 
our 2nd A rights have so far stopped our government from mass killing americans,,


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> youre forgetting that when they pay their debt to society and no longer in prison or on parole they should get all their rights back,,
> 
> their debt has been paid,,



 That is an argument one can make and one I will not argue against but still the Constitution allows the government to take your rights through due process.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> That is an argument one can make and one I will not argue against but still the Constitution allows the government to take your rights through due process.


yes it does and when that debt is paid they should return those rights,,


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## theHawk (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> The second references a well regulated  militia. Which militia was  he a part of ?


Queer Patrol.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> its led to red flag laws which is pre crime and a mile for them,,
> 
> why is it idiots are allowed to drive cars and kill people when its not a right but someone that made a mistake is not allowed a gun when it is a right??



Red flag laws using a judicial process with time limits and actually allowing the person in question to within days challenge the citation using a government appointed counsel would work for me. 

But what we get are left wing de facto grab attempts.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Red flag laws using a judicial process with time limits and actually allowing the person in question to within days challenge the citation using a government appointed counsel would work for me.
> 
> But what we get are left wing de facto grab attempts.


sadly thats not how red flag laws are written,,


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> No it wouldn't. I have no idea why you would say this. From what I read the police had reasons to arrest this man in the past.



The whole premise of protected arrest is for the cop to be able to legally detain a person and let the courts sort it out.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> "Convicted". If they were convicted they were gave their due process rights.
> 
> Yes, some even then argue you can not remove that right but that's because they only read the 2nd, not the entire Constitution.



Due Process.

I'm all for giving them back the RKBA, after their probation is over and when they petition a court for the RKBA to be restored, just like their voting rights.


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## westwall (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...





No it didn't.   The judge who threw out multiple felony charges is the one most responsible. 

You have to ask yourself what is it about Colorado that causes people to go batshit crazy?


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> sadly thats not how red flag laws are written,,



Well that's the way they should be written.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Well that's the way they should be written.


but they arent,,
that brings me back to stupid drivers that kill people and still get to drive,, they have to commit several crimes before they are restricted from driving and then only for a short time,,


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> but they arent,,
> that brings me back to stupid drivers that kill people and still get to drive,, they have to commit several crimes before they are restricted from driving and then only for a short time,,



Most road fatalities result in at least a suspended license, and usually a revoked one. The thing is the type of person doing this isn't letting a cut up revoked ID stop them. 

That is unless the pedestrian, cyclist, or other driver was at fault.


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## Ralph Norton (Nov 22, 2022)

Ivan88 said:


> If Americans really believed in Peace, they would disarm Congress which has been egaged in habitual mass murder for over 122 years.


Thanks, Ivan.
Keep up the good work.


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## Cellblock2429 (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


/——-/ why is Joe refusing to enforce the laws at the border?


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Most road fatalities result in at least a suspended license, and usually a revoked one. The thing is the type of person doing this isn't letting a cut up revoked ID stop them.
> 
> That is unless the pedestrian, cyclist, or other driver was at fault.


I should hav wrote injured or killed,, millions of people are injured every yr from stupid drivers and almost never restricted from driving until they do it several times all while  driving is not a right,,


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> I should hav wrote injured or killed,, millions of people are injured every yr from stupid drivers and almost never restricted from driving until they do it several times all while  driving is not a right,,



Actually I've noticed at least in NYC most of the idiot drivers in bad accidents already had their licenses suspended or revoked, often "several times" (which I don't understand the process of). 

They are restricted, but they keep driving until they do something bad enough to go to prison.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Actually I've noticed at least in NYC most of the idiot drivers in bad accidents already had their licenses suspended or revoked, often "several times" (which I don't understand the process of).
> 
> They are restricted, but they keep driving until they do something bad enough to go to prison.


it all comes back to freedom doesnt come easy and isnt free,, dangers exist,,

I could give a long list of felonies that dont support any loss of freedoms beyond the sentence given in the due process,
 as for violent criminals they should either not be let out of given life sentence and their parole if given would be for life so no return of some rights,,
but if youve PAID YOUR DEBT TO SOCIETY you should be treated like it


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> The whole premise of protected arrest is for the cop to be able to legally detain a person and let the courts sort it out.



 They have to do something to get themselves arrested. If they do and through due process it's determined they are a threat then do as one must.

 Through due process.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> They have to do something to get themselves arrested. If they do and through due process it's determined they are a threat then do as one must.
> 
> Through due process.



And due process requires the courts, the same courts you say can't be trusted to protect your rights.

You don't see the circular firing squad you just got yourself into?


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## Canon Shooter (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.



Did the shooter have a military rifle?

No, I don't believe he did...


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> And due process requires the courts, the same courts you say can't be trusted to protect your rights.


 
 That's not what I said. 



martybegan said:


> You don't see the circular firing squad you just got yourself into?



 Nope.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> That's not what I said.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.



You said not to "rely on the courts" to prevent misbehavior, yet that's what due process is all about.


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.



 How does one protect themselves unless they are armed like those you are to protect yourself against?


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> You said not to "rely on the courts" to prevent misbehavior, yet that's what due process is all about.



 No. I said the government needs to know what it can and can not do. The answer is not to say to simply allow the government violate your rights and then appeal to the courts. The answer is for the government and it's representatives know their place.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> No. I said the government needs to know what it can and can not do. The answer is not to say to simply allow the government violate your rights and then appeal to the courts. The answer is for the government and it's representatives know their place.



Being arrested is a violation of your rights, yet the whole protection from false arrest relies on the courts.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> You said not to "rely on the courts" to prevent misbehavior, yet that's what due process is all about.


 due process is for punishment not to change behavior,,


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Being arrested is a violation of your rights, yet the whole protection from false arrest relies on the courts.



 No. Being arrested is not a violation of your rights where there is an actual enforceable probable cause.

 If you do something actually illegal, it is not unconstitutional to arrest you.

 If you are demanded to do something the government does not have a right to ask of you that is a violation and it needs to stop.


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## martybegan (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> due process is for punishment not to change behavior,,



I swear your and pkopp are the same person.


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## progressive hunter (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> I swear your and pkopp are the same person.


it would do you better to show what I said was wrong,,,


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## M14 Shooter (Nov 22, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.


Does this create a disability under the law?
No?
Your opinion does not matter.


sealybobo said:


> Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home


Was he convicted of a crime that creates a disability under the law?
No?
Your opinion does not matter.


sealybobo said:


> Charge them.  Have a record of their crazy behavior and have that be the reason they don't get a gun.


Convict them.
Involuntary commit them.
Until then, there is no disability under the law.
Your opinion does not matter.


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## M14 Shooter (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


"All bearable arms"
-USSC
Your opinion does not matter.


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## M14 Shooter (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Killers have military rifles.


Most killers are black males with handguns.


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## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> I swear your and pkopp are the same person.



 LOL, I don't even understand what he said.


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## Flash (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.


The killer of those chicks in Idaho had a knife.


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## Flash (Nov 22, 2022)

It was a queer bar.  Who cares?


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## sealybobo (Nov 22, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> Does this create a disability under the law?
> No?
> Your opinion does not matter.
> 
> ...


I agree.  They need to charge guys who do what he did so in the future if they try to get a weapon, this incident pops up.  Maybe he still gets the gun but this incident should have slowed up his approval to say the least.


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## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...




He committed actual crimes you dumb ass.....and he was obviously mentally ill.....sanctuary status would not have kept them from arresting him...you idiot.


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## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.




That is exactly what the governments of Europe said....and then they went on to murder 15 million innocent men, women and children in just 6 years.....more people murdered than in the entire 246 year history of gun murder in the U.S....

15 million murdered in gun free europe in 6 years...

2,460,000 murdered by criminals with guns in 246 years in America, with the majority of the murder victims being criminals, not innocent men, women and children.

Where did the mass murder in Europe not happen?  In the one country where the people had military rifles...

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS

*That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"*
*
The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.

The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.
*
*Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.*

*While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.*


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> They have to do something to get themselves arrested. If they do and through due process it's determined they are a threat then do as one must.
> 
> Through due process.




His bomb threat and holding his mother hostage warranted being forcibly committed for a psych evaluation.......you don't need Red Flag laws to do that...and that alone would have popped on any gun background check.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 22, 2022)

2aguy said:


> That is exactly what the governments of Europe said....and then they went on to murder 15 million innocent men, women and children in just 6 years.....more people murdered than in the entire 246 year history of gun murder in the U.S....
> 
> 15 million murdered in gun free europe in 6 years...
> 
> ...


I wonder how it would have gone down if the Jews in 1939 had guns.  I suspect they would have handed them over just like you would if your government passed a law saying you can no longer have them.  

If not, then abortion doctors should just keep on giving abortions and ignore any bullshit laws you pass.  Right?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I wonder how it would have gone down if the Jews in 1939 had guns.  I suspect they would have handed them over just like you would if your government passed a law saying you can no longer have them.
> 
> If not, then abortion doctors should just keep on giving abortions and ignore any bullshit laws you pass.  Right?




Yeah....they likely would have because they had experienced purges before, but nothing like the organized mass murder.


We now know what the left is capable of doing to unarmed civilians....we know the lesson of history......since 1917, leftists have murdered close to 200 million innocent men, women and children......after taking their guns away from them...

The Jews in Germany did not know what was about to happen to them....

We know......

The lesson should be "Never Forget." 

You forgot.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 22, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I wonder how it would have gone down if the Jews in 1939 had guns.  I suspect they would have handed them over just like you would if your government passed a law saying you can no longer have them.
> 
> If not, then abortion doctors should just keep on giving abortions and ignore any bullshit laws you pass.  Right?




This is the lesson you need to learn.....

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS

*That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"*
*
The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.
*
*The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.

Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.*

*While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. 


There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.*


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


Trollin', trollin', trollin' on the river!  Maybe could find a Credence Clearwater Revival cover band to fill your desperate need.

I love their rendition but I love Tina's arrangement too.  Fun that I've seen them both live.  Enjoy, just imagine her singing your song!


----------



## whitehall (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Here again is a huge example of the problem. We have many dead people and you default to your partisan politics.


Responding to partisan politics thank you. You know it's all about politics when Pennsylvanians elected a nut case to the U.S. Senate in spite of the fact that he should have been red flagged for arming himself with a shotgun and chasing an innocent black guy down the street. Fetterman was a democrat so it didn't matter. About 50 people were dead a couple of years when a nut case opened fire on a Country Concert in Vegas that the media called a "Trump Rally" but the FBI refused to come up with the obvious hate crime motive and the whole thing was quietly forgotten.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


Once again you eagerly ignore our Consitution and the Fifth Amendment.  Bothersome thing, isn't it?

As you know, red flag laws are unconstitutional.  But hey, what's the Constitution to a far left winger like yourself?


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.



You don't need a Cuisinart.  No one does.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> He was a Maga, they get guns anyway they can get guns.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.


Who has military rifles?  I sure can't buy one, can you?


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> And shooting trannies.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> The second references a well regulated  militia. Which militia was  he a part of ?


Even you know that's goofy.  Either that or you are proud of your ignorance of grammar and the Second Amendment.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> youre forgetting that when they pay their debt to society and no longer in prison or on parole they should get all their rights back,,
> 
> their debt has been paid,,








They have every right to have their civil liberties restored.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Responding to partisan politics thank you. You know it's all about politics when Pennsylvanians elected a nut case to the U.S. Senate in spite of the fact that he should have been red flagged for arming himself with a shotgun and chasing an innocent black guy down the street. Fetterman was a democrat so it didn't matter. About 50 people were dead a couple of years when a nut case opened fire on a Country Concert in Vegas that the media called a "Trump Rally" but the FBI refused to come up with the obvious hate crime motive and the whole thing was quietly forgotten.



 He won because the Republicans ran someone from another state.


----------



## whitehall (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> He won because the Republicans ran someone from another state.


Are you kidding? Philadelphians elected a racist maniac who lived in his mother's basement and took up a shotgun and chased an innocent black guy down the street because the republican candidate who had a doctorate was from out of state?


----------



## pknopp (Nov 22, 2022)

whitehall said:


> Are you kidding? Philadelphians elected a racist maniac who lived in his mother's basement and took up a shotgun and chased an innocent black guy down the street because the republican candidate who had a doctorate was from out of state?



 That's what the polls said.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...



  As if an ignorant one-legged British faggot, citing an equally ignorant British source, has any standing to lecture us Americans regarding our Constitutional rights.

  The people's right to keep and bear arms, along with most of the other rights explicitly affirmed in our Bill of Rights, are thee specifically because the British filth denied us these rights when they tried to rule over us.  That's why we drove them out of our country, almost two and a half centuries ago.

  The only thing you accomplish by attacking our rights now, is to remind us why our ancestors kicked your ancestors out of our country, and killed those that wouldn't leave peacefully.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 22, 2022)

shockedcanadian said:


> martybegan said:
> 
> 
> > You can kill with a hammer, are carpenters killers?
> ...



  Look through my toolboxes, and you'd find quite a few things that could make excellent murder weapons, if someone chose to use them as such.

 Same would be true of most of my colleagues.

  I guess this must mean that all construction workers are murderers.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 22, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> The second references a well regulated  militia. Which militia was  he a part of ?



  You're too damn ignorant and illiterate to tell us what our Second Amendment says or means, and even if you were capable of understanding it, as a piece of British shit, you have no standing to speak of it anyway.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> youre [sic] forgetting that when they pay their debt to society and no longer in prison or on parole they should get all their rights back,,
> 
> their debt has been paid,,



  There was a time when anyone who was solidly enough established as a criminal, either by committing a major crime or two, or a sufficient number of lesser crime, served his sentence at the end of a rope.  Thereafter, there is no need to worry about whether he can be trusted with a gun.  If he wants to keep his guns, then they can be buried with him in his grave.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

pknopp said:


> He won because the Republicans ran someone from another state.


They simply proved that they want the very representation Fetterman can provide which is none.  Pathetic and sad.

In my humble opinion, Republicans desperately need to up their game with early voting and mail-in ballots.  The truth about Fetterman didn't come out until after hundreds of thousands had voted.


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Nov 22, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.
> 
> Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home
> 
> ...


Apparently the family wouldn't cooperate in the case therefore the case was dismissed and the proceedings sealed.  This allowed Aldrich to "lawfully" purchase a weapon.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> You're too damn ignorant and illiterate to tell us what our Second Amendment says or means, and even if you were capable of understanding it, as a piece of British shit, you have no standing to speak of it anyway.


Out of line.  IMHO


----------



## NewsVine_Mariyam (Nov 22, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> 2nd amendment says different


What I don't understand is why his record was sealed if he wasn't a juvenile at the time.  I mean he may have been not quite 21 but that doesn't make him a juvenile though does it?

The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about shielding people using firearms or other ordnance to threaten to lives of others.


----------



## Dr Grump (Nov 22, 2022)

martybegan said:


> You can kill with a hammer, are carpenters killers?


Of course. You can kill somebody with a spoon. I mean, after all, spoons were designed to kill people, too....


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 22, 2022)

Markle said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > You're too damn ignorant and illiterate to tell us what our Second Amendment says or means, and even if you were capable of understanding it, as a piece of British shit, you have no standing to speak of it anyway.
> ...



  It's the plain truth.  When an ignorant British faggot with no standing whatsoever to tell us Americans how we should run our country, tries to tell us Americans how we should run our country, it is most certainly NOT out of line to call him on it.

  My ancestors fought in two wars, specifically to establish, once and for all, that how we Americans run our country is none of the British's fucking business.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> _*What I don't understand is why his record was sealed if he wasn't a juvenile at the time.  I mean he may have been not quite 21 but that doesn't make him a juvenile though does it?*_
> 
> The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about shielding people using firearms or other ordnance to threaten to lives of others.


It is legal in Colorado to appeal to the courts to have your records sealed.  I'm sure the fact that his grandfather, Randy Voepel (R) is an assemblyman in California didn't hurt.


----------



## Markle (Nov 22, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> It's the plain truth.  When an ignorant British faggot with no standing whatsoever to tell us Americans how we should run our country, tries to tell us Americans how we should run our country, it is most certainly NOT out of line to call him on it.
> 
> My ancestors fought in two wars, specifically to establish, once and for all, that how we Americans run our country is none of the British's fucking business.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 23, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...



You are a dipshit…….
The Sacred Red Flag laws of the anti-gun fanatics allow the police…..all on their own….to petition a court to remove guns…….they didn’t need to convict him of anything.….and your false god….”government” …..failed to stop him…,

And…by the way….

In official court filings today the shooter self identified as a gender non-binary, who uses they/them pronouns………making him one of yours ………..you idiot.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

Markle said:


>



  It's not slander to tell the truth.


----------



## surada (Nov 23, 2022)

pknopp said:


> I can't read the article but red flag laws are highly unconstitutional.



This massacre happened about 10:30 last night in Virginia.









						US Walmart shooting: Manager kills six at Virginia supermarket
					

The gunman opened fire on colleagues in a break room before turning the weapon on himself.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## pknopp (Nov 23, 2022)

surada said:


> This massacre happened about 10:30 last night in Virginia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 OK, and? I'm not sure how that applies to the topic. Care to explain?


----------



## surada (Nov 23, 2022)

pknopp said:


> OK, and? I'm not sure how that applies to the topic. Care to explain?



The common denominator is not homosexuality.. it's guns.









						US Walmart shooting: Manager kills six at Virginia supermarket
					

The gunman opened fire on colleagues in a break room before turning the weapon on himself.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## surada (Nov 23, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> It's not slander to tell the truth.



Then don't slander.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 23, 2022)

surada said:


> The common denominator is not homosexuality.. it's guns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Yes.......that's one denominator. And?


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah....they likely would have because they had experienced purges before, but nothing like the organized mass murder.
> 
> 
> We now know what the left is capable of doing to unarmed civilians....we know the lesson of history......since 1917, leftists have murdered close to 200 million innocent men, women and children......after taking their guns away from them...
> ...


Well righties enslaved blacks and murdered god knows how many for 400 plus years and you still treat them like shit.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> Well righties enslaved blacks and murdered god knows how many for 400 plus years and you still treat them like shit.




No.....the people who owned slaves before our country was founded became the democrat party after it was founded.....religious conservatives, the Abolitionists, started the Republican party to fight against slavery....

The democrat party was founded by two slave owners, and used racism as their sword and shield....and still use it to this day....racists of all skin colors flock to the democrat party.......


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

surada said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > It's not slander to tell the truth.
> ...



  I was not slandering anyone.

  I was telling the plain, obvious truth.

  Truth can never be slander.


----------



## surada (Nov 23, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> I was not slandering anyone.
> 
> I was telling the plain, obvious truth.
> 
> Truth can never be slander.



You ignore the massacre in Virginia last night.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

surada said:


> You ignore the massacre in Virginia last night.



  Which, as far as I know, has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to anything that I have said in this thread.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No.....the people who owned slaves before our country was founded became the democrat party after it was founded.....religious conservatives, the Abolitionists, started the Republican party to fight against slavery....
> 
> The democrat party was founded by two slave owners, and used racism as their sword and shield....and still use it to this day....racists of all skin colors flock to the democrat party.......


The same shit racist white southerner Democrats did in the 50's, racist white Republicans today seem to behave a lot like those whites who fought very hard to stop black people from voting.  

Hell, Trump wanted to toss out all of Detroit's votes on election night.  Reminds me of Democrats in the 50's and 60's.


----------



## martybegan (Nov 23, 2022)

Dr Grump said:


> Of course. You can kill somebody with a spoon. I mean, after all, spoons were designed to kill people, too....



All a firearm is designed to do is propel a projectile via explosive combustion down a metal tube.


----------



## surada (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> The same shit racist white southerner Democrats did in the 50's, racist white Republicans today seem to behave a lot like those whites who fought very hard to stop black people from voting.
> 
> Hell, Trump wanted to toss out all of Detroit's votes on election night.  Reminds me of Democrats in the 50's and 60's.



Most of the Southern Dixiecrats supported States rights and most switched over to Republicans between 1964 and 1972.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 23, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


Define military rifle for me


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 23, 2022)

martybegan said:


> You can kill with a hammer, are carpenters killers?


More people are killed annually by bare hands and feet than with rifles of any kind


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


What if Trump and his Nazi followers took over the country?  What are you going to fight them with? 

You assume our government will always be OUR government.  We see how close Trump came to taking over our government.  Luckily not a lot of Republicans went along.  Neither did the military.  Neither did most of the people on Team Trump.  Pence, the Georgia Governor and Secretary of State.  Mitch.  All no labeled RINO's for not going along with treason.  They should be honored even though I dislike their politics.  It's just politics.  

Lindsay Graham went along.  He should be sent to jail with the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers who are taking the fall.  I wonder if they are mad Trump doesn't show up to testify for them?  I mean, if the election was really rigged Trump would show up and say they were patriots defending democracy.  They thought they were.  They didn't realize Trump and Rudy were lying to them.  And Alex Jones.  

Even the traitors on trial said they were getting non stop lies from Alex Jones.  What's his site called?  Google it.  They said, "your honor sorry I got swept up because I listened to non stop Infowars."  That's it.  Infowars.  Didn't he just get sued by Sandy Hook for spreading lies?  Now Alex Jones is responsible for the insurrection?

I bet he gets a platform on Twitter now.  LOL


----------



## Penelope (Nov 23, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Define military rifle for me


Anything that has Assault weapons after it. *They are killing machines. *I don't care if tramp get a twitter.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> The same shit racist white southerner Democrats did in the 50's, racist white Republicans today seem to behave a lot like those whites who fought very hard to stop black people from voting.
> 
> Hell, Trump wanted to toss out all of Detroit's votes on election night.  Reminds me of Democrats in the 50's and 60's.



Making up lies about republicans to cover for the racism of the democrat party is just typical of a leftist and democrat.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> What if Trump and his Nazi followers took over the country?  What are you going to fight them with?
> 
> You assume our government will always be OUR government.  We see how close Trump came to taking over our government.  Luckily not a lot of Republicans went along.  Neither did the military.  Neither did most of the people on Team Trump.  Pence, the Georgia Governor and Secretary of State.  Mitch.  All no labeled RINO's for not going along with treason.  They should be honored even though I dislike their politics.  It's just politics.
> 
> ...





surada said:


> Most of the Southern Dixiecrats supported States rights and most switched over to Republicans between 1964 and 1972.



No, they didnt.  States Rights is a nuetral concept….democrata usedthe concept of states rights to push racism…,republicans use states rights to protect people from the democrat party abuse of the federal government.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> What if Trump and his Nazi followers took over the country?  What are you going to fight them with?
> 
> You assume our government will always be OUR government.  We see how close Trump came to taking over our government.  Luckily not a lot of Republicans went along.  Neither did the military.  Neither did most of the people on Team Trump.  Pence, the Georgia Governor and Secretary of State.  Mitch.  All no labeled RINO's for not going along with treason.  They should be honored even though I dislike their politics.  It's just politics.
> 
> ...



How close thy came to taking over the government?

A bunch of people without guns, taking selfies in the hallways?

You really are f*****g deluded…..


----------



## Penelope (Nov 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Making up lies about republicans to cover for the racism of the democrat party is just typical of a leftist and democrat.


It they are not physically either a male or a female, I not making lies about them. Repubicans  are really that despicable.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

surada said:


> Most of the Southern Dixiecrats supported States rights and most switched over to Republicans between 1964 and 1972.


How come Georgia Republicans don't want early voting?









						GOP Tries Last-Ditch Effort To Block Saturday Voting In Georgia's Senate Runoff
					

Republicans have appealed to the state supreme court, claiming only "Democrat-leaning" counties plan to hold early voting this Saturday.




					www.huffpost.com
				




They never want to make it easier to vote.  Only harder.  

Republicans have appealed to the state supreme court, claiming only "Democrat-leaning" counties plan to hold early voting this Saturday.

The hubbub began after Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (R) said county election officials could not schedule early voting on a Saturday after a public holiday like Thanksgiving, citing state law. But the Warnock campaign and the Georgia Democratic Party sued, saying that provision applies only to primary or general elections, not runoffs.

A judge in Georgia’s Fulton County agreed, and the Georgia Court of Appeals declined to overturn that decision this week.
But the Republican National Committee, the Georgia Republican Party and the National Republican Senatorial Committee filed an appeal with the Supreme Court of Georgia on Tuesday, asking it to issue an emergency stay to block the Saturday voting. The groups claim only “Democrat-leaning” counties plan to conduct early voting, which, they argue, eviscerates “the statutorily-required uniformity among Georgia’s counties on that day.”

Georgia law requires that counties hold five days of early voting from Monday, Nov. 28, through Friday, Dec. 2. But counties are also allowed to hold three additional days of early voting, and some counties want to offer early voting on Saturday, when many voters are off work.
Warnock and Walker are set to face off in the Dec. 6 runoff after neither candidate secured more than 50% of the vote in the Nov. 8 midterm elections. Warnock, who is running for his first full six-year term in Congress after initially winning in a runoff on Jan. 5, 2021, led Walker by less than 40,000 votes in the 2022 vote.
Democrats are already projected to win 50 seats in the Senate, with the vice president as a tie-breaking vote to give them the majority. But picking up the Georgia seat would give them a firmer 51-member majority that could aid President Joe Biden’s legislative and judicial agenda. The party would also have a majority on all Senate committees, and the additional seat could weaken the power moderate Sens. Joe Manchin (W.Va.) and Kyrsten Sinema (Ariz.) hold over the chamber.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Nov 23, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


If a nations culture and mentality means you wander around in public with loaded guns and you don't have to keep them locked up, safe and secure at home when not in use, high gun incidents and crime ensues.

Just like anything in the public's domain, to try and reduce incidents; beit automotive, food hygiene, health and safety etc.. you have rules/laws/regulations and a culture to try and reduce injury and deaths. 

So it's obvious gun incidents in America will be off the scale compared to gun developed nations.


----------



## Markle (Nov 23, 2022)

surada said:


> Most of the Southern Dixiecrats supported States rights and most switched over to Republicans between 1964 and 1972.


----------



## Markle (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> _*What if Trump and his Nazi followers took over the country?*_


That's just goofy.  It simply renders the rest of your post just as worthless.


----------



## surada (Nov 23, 2022)

Markle said:


>



Don't you remember? I do.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 23, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


There is no such thing as Second Amendment ‘sanctuary’ – the notion is ignorant rightwing nonsense, or dishonest rightwing nonsense.

Federal laws are the supreme laws of the land, including Federal firearm measures – local officials can neither ignore nor disregard Federal laws.

Federal firearm laws will be enforced at the state and local level whether local officials approve or not.

Since the Founding, Constitutional doctrine has held that local officials cannot be compelled to enforce Federal laws. No one takes issue with local authorities refusing to enforce Federal firearm laws; indeed, their cooperation isn’t necessary – Federal authorities and private FFLs will ensure that Federal firearm laws are enforced at the state and local level.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 23, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


Correct.

In addition to being ignorant, dishonest nonsense, Second Amendment ‘sanctuary’ idiocy actually inhibits law enforcement from combating crime.

The Second Amendment ‘sanctuary’ lie is yet another example of the right’s contempt for sound, responsible governance.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 23, 2022)

pknopp said:


> I can't read the article but red flag laws are highly unconstitutional.


Wrong.

This is a lie.

No court has held that protective orders are ‘un-Constitutional.’

Protective orders are perfectly Constitutional affording citizens comprehensive due process and in no manner ‘violate’ the Second Amendment.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 23, 2022)

pknopp said:


> If you get due process and a court rules that way, all is good. Red flag laws ignore people have a right to due process.


Also wrong.

A protective order can be issued only pursuant to a judge’s ruling based on evidence of the matter.

Those subject to a protective order are entitled to a fair hearing to have the order lifted.

Again, citizens are afforded comprehensive due process.


----------



## Markle (Nov 23, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> This is a lie.
> 
> ...


You're commenting on Red Flag Laws with a totally irrelevant topic, protective orders.  What does that have to do with Red Flag Laws being unconstitutional?  Please be specific.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 23, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Wrong.
> 
> This is a lie.
> 
> ...



 I never said protective orders were un-Constitutional so if you want to address what I said, fine. If not, whatever.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

Penelope said:


> It they are not physically either a male or a female…


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

Markle said:


> sealybobo said:
> 
> 
> > What if Trump and his Nazi followers took over the country?
> ...



  The worthlessness of the rest of SleazyBozo's post stands on its own.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> The worthlessness of the rest of SleazyBozo's post stands on its own.


I seriously see a similarity to Trump and Hitler.  Sorry if that's not allowed to compare Trump with the one guy who's more infamous than he is.

Hitler even started a failed coup.  Beer Hall Putsch.  Landed him in jail.  That's where Trump should be after lying to his most crazy supporters and told them to go riot because Roger Stone told him rioting worked in 2000.









						Brooks Brothers riot - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Lots of similarities between Bush and Trump and Trump and Hitler.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I seriously see a similarity to Trump and Hitler.  Sorry if that's not allowed to compare Trump with the one guy who's more infamous than he is.
> 
> Hitler even started a failed coup.  Beer Hall Putsch.  Landed him in jail.  That's where Trump should be after lying to his most crazy supporters and told them to go riot because Roger Stone told him rioting worked in 2000.
> 
> ...




You mean except for the fact they are the exact opposite?   The democrat party is closer to the national socialist party, and its current tactics of using blm and antifa as its brown shirt street soldiers, and the FBI, CIA as its personal gestapo just get past you?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I seriously see a similarity to Trump and Hitler.  Sorry if that's not allowed to compare Trump with the one guy who's more infamous than he is.
> 
> Hitler even started a failed coup.  Beer Hall Putsch.  Landed him in jail.  That's where Trump should be after lying to his most crazy supporters and told them to go riot because Roger Stone told him rioting worked in 2000.
> 
> ...




And you lle, right in that post....Trump never sent anyone to riot anywhere....the democrat party did employ bob craemer, husband to Chicago, democrat party politician, Jan Schakowsky to hire people to start riots at Trump rallies........you dumb ass...


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You mean except for the fact they are the exact opposite?   The democrat party is closer to the national socialist party, and its current tactics of using blm and antifa as its brown shirt street soldiers, and the FBI, CIA as its personal gestapo just get past you?


My young white rich nephew sees it your way.  He hates how liberal college is.  

The pendulum swings both ways.  Yes we're getting sick of the woke movement.  Me Too.  Diversity programs.  Fair pay for women and minorities.  There is some truth to why we make more.  Good reasons.  It'll all come out.  

Stop demonizing BLM.  It shows you are out of touch.  Cops do need to stop abusing young black men.  Usually that's who've they've historically abused.  Dates back to the Kerner commission and all these years later nothing has changed. 









						The 1968 Kerner Commission Got It Right, But Nobody Listened
					

Released 50 years ago, the infamous report found that poverty and institutional racism were driving inner-city violence




					www.smithsonianmag.com
				




It's amazing how things haven't changed all that much since the 60's.

But then again, I'm not a cop working in the hood.  I do defend those brave men and women.  No doubt.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> What if Trump and his Nazi followers…





sealybobo said:


> I seriously see a similarity to Trump and Hitler.





sealybobo said:


> Hitler even started a failed coup.



Godwin's law invoked.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You mean except for the fact they are the exact opposite?   The democrat party is closer to the national socialist party, and its current tactics of using blm and antifa as its brown shirt street soldiers, and the FBI, CIA as its personal gestapo just get past you?











						Major Violators: Investigators find systemic corruption in Detroit's top drug enforcement unit - WDET 101.9 FM
					

The Operation Clean Sweep Task Force — which found evidence of fraud, forgery and perjury — is "the most in-depth intra-departmental investigative inquiry in recent Department history."




					wdet.org
				




Now you see what black people are dealing with.  Corrupt big city cops who murder them.  So stop defending cops or suggesting we hate all cops.  We don't.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> 2nd amendment says different


No it doesn't.  We have laws.  Break them and you get a felony.  He made a bomb threat?  That's a felony.  No gun for him.  

What does the second amendment say about people who are insane?


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> Stop demonizing BLM.



  Why should violent criminals/terrorists not be demonized?  Do you take their side against the side of human beings?  I guess that should not surprise me, given the abject lack of moral and ethical character that you have always demonstrated.


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 23, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Why should violent criminals/terrorists not be demonized?  Do you take their side against the side of human beings?  I guess that should not surprise me, given the abject lack of moral and ethical character that you have always demonstrated.


Who's a violent criminal or terrorist?  And who's defending that criminal or terrorist?  Are you referring to people who defend Trump?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 23, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


Ok I will agree if you can show me the word need in the bill of rights.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 23, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> yes everyone needs the best military rifles available since thats what the 2nd amendment was for,,


It's not about need


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 23, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.


What military issues AR15s? FYI the military doesn't have a second amendment right.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 23, 2022)

Penelope said:


> He was a Maga, they get guns anyway they can get guns.


Who are you talking about?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 23, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> The second references a well regulated  militia. Which militia was  he a part of ?


The unorganized militia


----------



## progressive hunter (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> No it doesn't.  We have laws.  Break them and you get a felony.  He made a bomb threat?  That's a felony.  No gun for him.
> 
> What does the second amendment say about people who are insane?


not what the 2nd A says,,


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > sealybobo said:
> ...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 23, 2022)

CarsomyrPlusSix said:


> But what if I need to kill some assholes who are attacking me?
> 
> Or if I want to do target practice?
> 
> Or if I think they look pretty as decoration?


You really don't need to justify your right


----------



## Markle (Nov 23, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> Stop demonizing BLM. It shows you are out of touch. Cops do need to stop abusing young black men. Usually that's who've they've historically abused.


Earth to sealybobo, this is 2020, not the historical 1960s.

Ninety-nine point nine percent of cops abuse no one.

Black Lives Matter should be demonized and you know that for a fact.  Why do you deny that they are a fraud and helped no one but a few of their top leaders?  How does defending a group that stole millions from well-meaning people and companies help you?









						BLM's millions unaccounted for after leaders quietly jumped ship
					

No one appears to have been in charge at Black Lives Matter for months. The address it lists on tax forms is wrong, and the charity's two board members won't say who controls its $60 million bankroll, a Washington Examiner investigation has found.




					www.washingtonexaminer.com
				












						Marxist BLM leader buys $1.4 million home in ritzy LA enclave
					

Patrisse Khan-Cullors, the leader of Black Lives Matter and a self-described Marxist, recently purchased a $1.4 million home in an exclusive Los Angeles neighborhood where the vast majority of resi…




					nypost.com
				












						BLM transferred millions to Canadian charity to buy mansion formerly owned by Communist Party: report
					

Black Lives Matter (BLM) moved millions of dollars to a charity in Canada run by the wife of co-founder Patrisse Khan-Cullors to purchase a mansion that used to be the headquarters of the Communist Party of Canada, according to public records reviewed by the New York Post.




					www.foxnews.com
				




Sealybobo, please share with us specifically how this helped any deserving black person or anyone else or that matter.  Other than the few thiefs at the head of the organization.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Absolutists are idiots. It's like trying to use the Ideal Gas Law to design a fractioning distillation column.


Give an inch and anti rights fascists will take all you have. So fuck yeah I'm an absolutists. No more repeal the NFA gut the ATF and just make it the AT. Put firearms training back in school, arm teachers, end gun free zones, keep felons in prison, if the government says you paid your debt to society you get all your rights back. And no more gun laws.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

martybegan said:


> How is saying convicted felons can't have guns giving an inch?


Have they paid their debt to society?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> youre forgetting that when they pay their debt to society and no longer in prison or on parole they should get all their rights back,,
> 
> their debt has been paid,,


Agreed


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

pknopp said:


> That is an argument one can make and one I will not argue against but still the Constitution allows the government to take your rights through due process.


And due process was carried out upon the conviction and incarceration, but when your debt is paid it's over.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Red flag laws using a judicial process with time limits and actually allowing the person in question to within days challenge the citation using a government appointed counsel would work for me.
> 
> But what we get are left wing de facto grab attempts.


Why don't red flag laws allow for incarceration?


----------



## Markle (Nov 24, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Why don't red flag laws allow for incarceration?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I wonder how it would have gone down if the Jews in 1939 had guns.  I suspect they would have handed them over just like you would if your government passed a law saying you can no longer have them.
> 
> If not, then abortion doctors should just keep on giving abortions and ignore any bullshit laws you pass.  Right?


Good luck trying


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

Markle said:


>


However, red flag laws do nothing but deprive you of your rights.and illegal


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> As if an ignorant one-legged British faggot, citing an equally ignorant British source, has any standing to lecture us Americans regarding our Constitutional rights.
> 
> The people's right to keep and bear arms, along with most of the other rights explicitly affirmed in our Bill of Rights, are thee specifically because the British filth denied us these rights when they tried to rule over us.  That's why we drove them out of our country, almost two and a half centuries ago.
> 
> The only thing you accomplish by attacking our rights now, is to remind us why our ancestors kicked your ancestors out of our country, and killed those that wouldn't leave peacefully.


Tammy is irrelevant


----------



## cnm (Nov 24, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> And no more gun laws.


Freedom!


----------



## cnm (Nov 24, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> As if an ignorant one-legged British faggot, citing an equally ignorant British source, has any standing to lecture us Americans regarding our Constitutional rights.


The concept of Freedom! is hard to get one's head around for non US Citizens. But I'm learning to appreciate its special beauty.






Really, when one gets down to it, there's nothing finer.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> The concept of Freedom! is hard to get one's head around for non US Citizens. But I'm learning to appreciate its special beauty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Come and take them bitch


----------



## cnm (Nov 24, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Come and take them bitch


Why do you hate freedom?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> The concept of Freedom! is hard to get one's head around for non US Citizens. But I'm learning to appreciate its special beauty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here…let me help…..

In Europe, in the 1930s, the Europeans didn’t have the same Right to freedoms that we have.

The Europeans at the time stated that Europeans had to register and later give their privately owned guns to the government because they would be safer if only he government had the guns……..the Europeans were told that the government would keep them safe so they didn’t have to worry.

Americans and the Swiss had freedom to own guns.

In the 1930s, the German socialists use the gun registration lists created in the 1930s to ban and confiscate all the guns not already handed over…..

Then, by 1939, the German socialists and the governments they controllled across Europe began a 6 year murder spree….and murdered 15 million, now unarmed, men, women and children.

In 6 years they murdered 15 million Europeans.

Those murdered were not criminals…..they were innocent men, women and children.

*That is what “Not free“ looks like.*

At the same time, in Switzerland, the innocent men and women of the country had military rifles…..and they had so many of them the German socialists decided not to invade their country…since taking on that “free” people with all of their guns, would have cost the German Socialists too many German socialist dead soldiers.


On the other side of the world…..the American people….a free people who had a Right to own guns………also didn’t experience the mass murder of the German socialists….

In fact, if you average out gun murder in the entire 246 year history of the United States……

You get about 2,460,000 gun murders…..

The victims of these murders are also not a majority of innocent people.

The vast majority of those murdered in the U.S. are criminals…..and the friends and family of criminals.

To recap…..

”*Not Free,” Europe……. 

15 million innocent men, women and children murdered in 6 years.

Free Switzerland…..

0 people murdered by the German socialist because the Swiss had lots and lots of guns.

Free Untied States….

2,469,000 murdered over the entire 246 year history ……with the majority of gun murder victims not innocent people…..but criminals.

Also…..in Free America….

According to the Centers For Disease Control, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives……to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, mass public shootings……

And Americans armed with their freedom and guns keep our government from murdering 15 million of us in 6 years.

So…..can you see the numbers that show the difference between “Free,” and “Not Free?”

And the , please tell us how the governments of Europe are currently prevented from murdering another 15 million…or more…..of their own citizens…since they didn’t learn the lesson from first 15 million they butchered…..and still won’t let their people keep and carry guns.*


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 24, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Good luck trying



Before Roe V Wade, what was the penalty for any doctors who gave abortions?  And women who got abortions?  Slap on the wrist to losing your medical license.  Today you guys want to treat it like murder.  You're even more conservative than you were before Roe V Wade!!!!


----------



## Markle (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> Freedom!


Freedom isn't free and the cost of freedom is not only pecuniary.  I know this is hard for you to believe but there are crazies in the world.  Or, stuff happens.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> Why do you hate freedom?


Why are you a projecting little nazi


----------



## bodecea (Nov 24, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


The survivors need to sue the sheriff's dept.


----------



## bodecea (Nov 24, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.
> 
> Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home
> 
> ...


So much for gun nuts saying we should enforce the laws already on the books.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 24, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Anything that has Assault weapons after it. *They are killing machines. *I don't care if tramp get a twitter.


Define "assault" weapon

which one of these rifles is an "assault" weapon?


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 24, 2022)

bodecea said:


> So much for gun nuts saying we should enforce the laws already on the books.


On the contrary this is proof that we aren't enforcing them


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 24, 2022)

bodecea said:


> So much for gun nuts saying we should enforce the laws already on the books.



I don't think the NRA would come to the defense of anyone who did something crazy and was charged with a felony for it.  I'm assuming making a bomb threat is a felony?  So charge him, find him guilty if he did it, and now he can't get a gun.

I might even be open for the guy being able to get his record expunged when he's 30 because he was 17 when it happened.  He could be a different man.  That would be for a judge to decide.  But here's another thing I don't like.  Only rich people with good laywers can do this.  I know because I tried to get something expunged and my friend got his thing expunged.  It's expensive.  It shouldn't be.  Money should have nothing to do with it.  Should this person be allowed the 2nd amendment right to own a gun?  If he's been a model citizen for 13 years why not right?

But then Republicans will say, "why did you give him his rights back?" if anything goes wrong.  Their solution for all crime is to lock everyone up forever or execute them.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 24, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I don't think the NRA would come to the defense of anyone who did something crazy and was charged with a felony for it.  I'm assuming making a bomb threat is a felony?  So charge him, find him guilty if he did it, and now he can't get a gun.
> 
> I might even be open for the guy being able to get his record expunged when he's 30 because he was 17 when it happened.  He could be a different man.  That would be for a judge to decide.  But here's another thing I don't like.  Only rich people with good laywers can do this.  I know because I tried to get something expunged and my friend got his thing expunged.  It's expensive.  It shouldn't be.  Money should have nothing to do with it.  Should this person be allowed the 2nd amendment right to own a gun?  If he's been a model citizen for 13 years why not right?
> 
> But then Republicans will say, "why did you give him his rights back?" if anything goes wrong.  Their solution for all crime is to lock everyone up forever or execute them.


that's a good point

Was this guy ever tried and convicted of a felony?


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 24, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> that's a good point
> 
> Was this guy ever tried and convicted of a felony?


No.  They decided not to press charges.  So it wasn't red flagged.


----------



## Penelope (Nov 24, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Define "assault" weapon
> 
> which one of these rifles is an "assault" weapon?
> 
> ...




do they take large mags (anything more than 10 bullets), then they're both assault weapons.


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 24, 2022)

Maybe one of you all can help me out. Explain why Civil Asset Forfeiture laws are Constitutional, and Red Flag Laws are not.


----------



## progressive hunter (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> The concept of Freedom! is hard to get one's head around for non US Citizens. But I'm learning to appreciate its special beauty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


everybody looks at freedom from a different angle,,

this is your kind of freedom


----------



## sealybobo (Nov 24, 2022)

Penelope said:


> do they take large mags (anything more than 10 bullets), then they're both assault weapons.


How come women don't go on shooting sprees?  It's always dudes.  Sometimes lefties and sometimes righties.  But always dudes.


----------



## cnm (Nov 24, 2022)

Markle said:


> Freedom isn't free and the cost of freedom is not only pecuniary.


It's glorious though, isn't it?






I'm envious. I wish we had that sort of freedom here.


----------



## cnm (Nov 24, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> everybody looks at freedom from a different angle,,


I'm starting to see how attractive is the US version.






If only people here would wise up. Active shooter drills are a basic right we are denied.


----------



## progressive hunter (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> I'm starting to see how attractive is the US version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you really dont want to play the picture to picture comparison on this subject,,


----------



## surada (Nov 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No, they didnt.  States Rights is a nuetral concept….democrata usedthe concept of states rights to push racism…,republicans use states rights to protect people from the democrat party abuse of the federal government.



That's true. They opposed school integration. Why do you think hundreds of Christian schools popped up?


----------



## cnm (Nov 24, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> you really dont want to play the picture to picture comparison on this subject,,


I really want Freedom!






It should be my right.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 24, 2022)

surada said:


> That's true. They opposed school integration. Why do you think hundreds of Christian schools popped up?



They popped up because leftists destroyed the public school system, and attacked religious people.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> I really want Freedom!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Is this the European Freedom you are talking about...














All gun murder in the United States for our entire 246 year history....?

Around 2,460,000......

The European Freedom?

They murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children......in 6 years.....

After they took away their guns......

So, please enlighten us about this concept of freedom you support...where 15 million people can be murdered in 6 years......more than in the entire history of gun murder in the U.S. over 246 years.....

Go ahead...we will wait...


----------



## progressive hunter (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> I really want Freedom!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what do you mean by freedom?? the freedom to murder innocent people or the right to resist a government when they decide to load you in trains and kill you in gas chambers??


----------



## surada (Nov 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They popped up because leftists destroyed the public school system, and attacked religious people.



Nope. Fundamentalists, Dominionists and Dispensationists didn't want to send their children to school with black children. The Christian pop up schools were notoriously poor.

How old are you?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 24, 2022)

cnm said:


> I really want Freedom!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You can't defend the mass murder in Europe compared to Americans armed with guns keeping our government from doing the same to us.....

Please, explain to us how you think that sort of mass murder of innocent people can never happen again....please....try to tell us....

Do you understand that the one place the mass murder of millions of innocent people didn't happen was Switzerland...where the citizens had guns...do you understand that?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 24, 2022)

surada said:


> Nope. Fundamentalists, Dominionists and Dispensationists didn't want to send their children to school with black children. The Christian pop up schools were notoriously poor.
> 
> How old are you?




Ohhhhhh....Why didn't you say "democrats," when you posted that.......that is what you should have said....just like Joe biden who said he didn't want to send his kids to a "jungle" school........


----------



## surada (Nov 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You can't defend the mass murder in Europe compared to Americans armed with guns keeping our government from doing the same to us.....
> 
> Please, explain to us how you think that sort of mass murder of innocent people can never happen again....please....try to tell us....
> 
> Do you understand that the one place the mass murder of millions of innocent people didn't happen was Switzerland...where the citizens had guns...do you understand that?



You've never set foot in Switzerland.


----------



## surada (Nov 24, 2022)

My God 





2aguy said:


> Ohhhhhh....Why didn't you say "democrats," when you posted that.......that is what you should have said....just like Joe biden who said he didn't want to send his kids to a "jungle" school........


My God you're so dumb.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 24, 2022)

surada said:


> You've never set foot in Switzerland.




And?   So?

What does that have to do with anything you fucking moron?

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS

*That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"*
*
The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.

The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.
*
*Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.*

*While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. 


There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.*


----------



## Markle (Nov 24, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> How come women don't go on shooting sprees?  It's always dudes.  Sometimes lefties and sometimes righties.  But always dudes.


Gosh, you noticed.  Men and women are different.  Might you try to clue in your far-left adherents?

Hint, testosterone.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 24, 2022)

bodecea said:


> The survivors need to sue the sheriff's dept.


For what? The supreme court has ruled law enforcement is not legally obligated to protect anyone.


----------



## Peace (Nov 24, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


I own a pump action shotgun which is more dangerous than you can realize, and yet you wouldn’t know it…


----------



## Peace (Nov 24, 2022)

Markle said:


> Gosh, you noticed.  Men and women are different.  Might you try to clue in your far-left adherents?
> 
> Hint, testosterone.


And yet I am psychotic as hell and have never once thought about mass shooting up a damn place…

It is more than testosterone and it is about glorifying these assholes on the news cycles…


----------



## boedicca (Nov 24, 2022)

The OP is wrong.  What actually led to the shooting is the promotion of no bail/no prosecution and transgender ideology combined with a mentally unstable boy-man who doesn't understand biology.


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## Markle (Nov 24, 2022)

Peace said:


> And yet I am psychotic as hell and have never once thought about mass shooting up a damn place…
> 
> It is more than testosterone and it is about glorifying these assholes on the news cycles…


I agree but the question, as I understood it, was why women don't commit mass murders.  No, the vast majority of men don't commit mass murder but we certainly have more mass in our bones, more muscle development, and, more aggression.


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## surada (Nov 24, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And?   So?
> 
> What does that have to do with anything you fucking moron?
> 
> ...





2aguy said:


> And?   So?
> 
> What does that have to do with anything you fucking moron?
> 
> ...



 The Swiss have every mountain pass and tunnel wired for destruction. They are incredible people. All of my ski instructors and mountain climbing guides were Swiss army.


----------



## Peace (Nov 24, 2022)

Markle said:


> I agree but the question, as I understood it, was why women don't commit mass murders.  No, the vast majority of men don't commit mass murder but we certainly have more mass in our bones, more muscle development, and, more aggression.


Aggression I disagree with because I have met many Eastern European women that make me look feminine.

Look, the psychology of the individual need to play into the discussion and the fact the society we live into today is so toxic!

Now we have many on a certain side that believe Homosexuality is the issue but Homosexuality has been around forever and he’ll that could be the actual Mark of Cain, so that isn’t the issue.

In my personal opinion why Women are less likely is because they have a better understanding why that doesn’t achieve the outcome they desire while men think that using their brawn or a gun will do the damage they desire…


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 24, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


Walmart employees aren't allowed to carry at work.  How'd that work out?


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## miketx (Nov 24, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


Come get them.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 24, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> I think if you are 17 and you threaten to kill your parents and the police have to be called, that should go on record and be the reason you are maybe not allowed to purchase a gun.
> 
> Aldrich was arrested in June 2021 in connection with a bomb threat which led to a standoff at his mother’s home
> 
> ...


Bomb threats are a Federal crime.  Where were the Feds, in 2021?  Think they might have left this kid in the street knowing he would do a mass shooting one day?


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 24, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


Sure we do.  We have a right to firepower superiority against a threat.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 24, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.


99% of killers use non-military weapons.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 24, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> The second references a well regulated  militia. Which militia was  he a part of ?


The 2nd Amendment says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 24, 2022)

martybegan said:


> How is saying convicted felons can't have guns giving an inch?


Washington DC just made illegal gun possession a misdemeanor.  Is that your idea of gun control?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I see I can't change you mind!! Killers have military rifles.




None of them had military rifles you dope?


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## 2aguy (Nov 25, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Washington DC just made illegal gun possession a misdemeanor.  Is that your idea of gun control?



Anti-gun fanatics release violent gun offenders, persecute law abiding gun owners.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 25, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


I can't buy military rifles at my local gun store. You can however buy one manufactured before 1986 if you can get past all the red tape. One decent M16 manufactured before 86 will cost you around $30,000.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 25, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Washington DC just made illegal gun possession a misdemeanor.  Is that your idea of gun control?


Coming from lefty controlled DC whatever could be their motivation ?


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## Blues Man (Nov 25, 2022)

Penelope said:


> do they take large mags (anything more than 10 bullets), then they're both assault weapons.


Since when is over 10 rounds large?

My rifle came with a standard magazine size of 30 rounds.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 25, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Coming from lefty controlled DC whatever could be their motivation ?


Creating chaos, so they can gain more control.


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## martybegan (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Why don't red flag laws allow for incarceration?



What about "observation"?

If a judge is involved doesn't that satisfy due process?


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## martybegan (Nov 29, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Washington DC just made illegal gun possession a misdemeanor.  Is that your idea of gun control?



Didn't they usually consider that a felony?


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## Blaster (Nov 29, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> queers need guns too,,


The 2nd amendment doesn't discriminate.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 29, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Didn't they usually consider that a felony?


Yes


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

martybegan said:


> What about "observation"?
> 
> If a judge is involved doesn't that satisfy due process?


Red flag laws disregards due process


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## martybegan (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Red flag laws disregards due process



They disregard jury result due process, not the use of the judicial system itself, which is a form of due process.


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## hadit (Nov 29, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


Which is totally irrelevant to the discussion. You don't need the internet or a computer to exercise your 1st Amendment rights, either.


----------



## miketx (Nov 29, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


Nobody has any, skank.


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Red flag laws disregards due process



Explain how Civil Asset Forfeiture laws are constitutional but Red Flag Laws are not please.


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## martybegan (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Explain how Civil Asset Forfeiture laws are constitutional but Red Flag Laws are not please.



Civil Asset forfeiture should only happen AFTER a criminal conviction.


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## Golfing Gator (Nov 29, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> *In 2019, it joined nearly 2,000 counties across the US in declaring itself a "Second Amendment Sanctuary", saying the red flag law "infringes upon the inalienable rights of law-abiding citizens".*



And they are 100% correct


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

martybegan said:


> They disregard jury result due process, not the use of the judicial system itself, which is a form of due process.


Not true. You don't get representation


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Explain how Civil Asset Forfeiture laws are constitutional but Red Flag Laws are not please.


North Carolina doesn't have civil asset forfeiture laws. They have criminal forfeiture. A prosecutor could pursue civil forfeiture in racketeering cases. But the bar is set high. I will say this most gun control laws are unconstitutional yet in some states they remain


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## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Civil Asset forfeiture should only happen AFTER a criminal conviction.



Under Civil Asset Forfeiture the Supreme Court has upheld this process. They claim it is not an excessive fine since the owners can sue to get their property back. And it is not a violation of sue process since the owners can sue to get their property returned. 









						The Supreme Court Didn’t Put the Nail in Civil Asset Forfeiture’s Coffin | News & Commentary | American Civil Liberties Union
					





					www.aclu.org
				




So how is that constitutional but red flag laws are not?


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## Blues Man (Nov 29, 2022)

martybegan said:


> They disregard jury result due process, not the use of the judicial system itself, which is a form of due process.


When a hearing can take placed without notifying the accused and there is no opportunity for the defendant to acquire counsel and face his accusers in court and his rights can be suspended despite not being convicted of a crime or deemed by a mental health professional to be a danger to himself or others then he has been denied due process


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## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> North Carolina doesn't have civil asset forfeiture laws. They have criminal forfeiture. A prosecutor could pursue civil forfeiture in racketeering cases. But the bar is set high. I will say this most gun control laws are unconstitutional yet in some states they remain



They still happen in North Carolina. 









						What Legal Situations Can Lead to Seizure of Your Property in North Carolina? » Top Rated Criminal Defense Attorney Charlotte
					

What Legal Situations Can Lead to Seizure of Your Property in North Carolina? Property Seizure Attorney Charlotte » Knox Law Center Charlotte Best Attorneys




					www.knoxlawcenter.com
				




The state seems to be seizing a lot of property when it is illegal under state laws. 









						Preventing Asset Forfeiture Abuse In North Carolina: Part 2
					

This is the second part of a three-part analysis of the federal government’s “equitable sharing” program and its impact in North Carolina. Part One explained how equitable sharing makes it possible for North Carolina law enforcement agencies to circumvent the due process and property rights...




					www.johnlocke.org
				




And constitutional. So let’s try to be honest this time.


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## martybegan (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Not true. You don't get representation



The way they are written, because gun grabbers gotta grab. You should be provided counsel, you should have a 2-3 day turn around on a  hearing, and if the flag is found to be unwarranted, you should be compensated.


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## martybegan (Nov 29, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> When a hearing can take placed without notifying the accused and there is no opportunity for the defendant to acquire counsel and face his accusers in court and his rights can be suspended despite not being convicted of a crime or deemed by a mental health professional to be a danger to himself or others then he has been denied due process



I agree 100%, which is why the gun grabbers lie about these laws. it's just another end run around the Constitution.

There is a place, however, for an actual Red Flag law with concrete protections.  We just won't get one from progressives.


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## martybegan (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Under Civil Asset Forfeiture the Supreme Court has upheld this process. They claim it is not an excessive fine since the owners can sue to get their property back. And it is not a violation of sue process since the owners can sue to get their property returned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like in other cases, the SC was wrong with regards to civil asset forfeiture.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> They still happen in North Carolina.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No North Carolina doesn't 
*CIVIL FORFEITURE IS NOT PERMITTED IN NORTH CAROLINA*​​








						Understanding asset forfeiture laws in North Carolina | Mason, Mason and Smith, Attorneys at Law
					

Asset forfeiture is when law enforcement takes property from someone as part of an investigation, typically because property is implicated as part of a crime or suspected crime. In some states, there are few limitations to asset forfeiture. However, North Carolina is one of several states that...




					www.masonmasonlaw.com


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> No North Carolina doesn't
> *CIVIL FORFEITURE IS NOT PERMITTED IN NORTH CAROLINA*​​
> 
> 
> ...



From your link. Your link. 

_ While North Carolina laws are much stricter than those in other states, there is a way that law enforcement can seize property under the law. Local law enforcement and federal agencies are permitted to form a partnership, which allows them to take advantage of looser federal restrictions. The proceeds from their seizures are split between the federal agency and local agency. North Carolina requires these proceeds to go to education, so that police services do not directly benefit from the asset forfeiture. _

So how often do they happen in North Carolina where they are illegal? 

From my link. 

*More than 100 North Carolina agencies, including the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation and the Highway Patrol, regularly process seized assets through the equitable sharing program.6Between 2007 and 2017, those agencies collected more than $187 million in proceeds.7

Were all of those seized assets taken from genuine criminals? We will never know. Because the assets were processed under federal rather than state law, there was no need to prosecute the owners and prove their guilt. Were the assets really used for or acquired through criminal activity? We will never know about that either, and for the same reason. Were all of the proceeds put to good use? Again, we will never know. Because the assets were processed under federal law, there was no need to use the proceeds for public education; instead, the agencies kept the proceeds and used them as they saw fit.*









						Preventing Asset Forfeiture Abuse In North Carolina: Part 2
					

This is the second part of a three-part analysis of the federal government’s “equitable sharing” program and its impact in North Carolina. Part One explained how equitable sharing makes it possible for North Carolina law enforcement agencies to circumvent the due process and property rights...




					www.johnlocke.org
				




So why are you crowing about the cops in North Carolina being rewarded for breaking state law to the tune of about $200 million since it was made illegal? 

Since they share it with the Feds now, that means the cops in NC have seized more than $400 million.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> From your link. Your link.
> 
> _ While North Carolina laws are much stricter than those in other states, there is a way that law enforcement can seize property under the law. Local law enforcement and federal agencies are permitted to form a partnership, which allows them to take advantage of looser federal restrictions. The proceeds from their seizures are split between the federal agency and local agency. North Carolina requires these proceeds to go to education, so that police services do not directly benefit from the asset forfeiture. _
> 
> ...


From my link I placed in bold
Civil forfeitures are not permitted in North Carolina. The only way property can be ceased is if the property was part of the crime.


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## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> From my link I placed in bold
> Civil forfeitures are not permitted in North Carolina. The only way property can be ceased is if the property was part of the crime.



Read the rest of the page Scooter and see what else is said. They do it but under Federal Law. The State and Local cops are still doing it.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Read the rest of the page Scooter and see what else is said. They do it but under Federal Law. The State and Local cops are still doing it.


I don't have to read it civil forfeiture is not permitted in my state.


----------



## sparky (Nov 29, 2022)

The irony of the one and _only_ constitutional amendment that's keep us free from oppressors like ENGLAND for over 2 1/2 centuries , being scrutinized by an _Englishman _who's country would all be _goosestepping_ to _*Das Lied der Deutschen* _without our being _heavily_ armed is rather an obnoxious sentiment

thx

~S~


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## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> I don't have to read it civil forfeiture is not permitted in my state.



You won’t read the links you post that prove you are wrong. 

You are an absolute idiot. 





Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> You won’t read the links you post that prove you are wrong.
> 
> You are an absolute idiot.
> 
> View attachment 732551


It's not permitted only criminal forfeiture is allowed


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> It's not permitted only criminal forfeiture is allowed



Read your own link. It describes how they are still doing Civil Asset Forfeiture. The link I provided showed 100 different departments are still doing it. 

But obstinately you determined you are right even when your link says you are wrong. 

I suppose we should be impressed you are able to navigate the internet with such a low IQ.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Read your own link. It describes how they are still doing Civil Asset Forfeiture. The link I provided showed 100 different departments are still doing it.
> 
> But obstinately you determined you are right even when your link says you are wrong.
> 
> I suppose we should be impressed you are able to navigate the internet with such a low IQ.


You need to read and comprehend what you read from my link.
What does this say?
*CIVIL FORFEITURE IS NOT PERMITTED IN NORTH CAROLINA*​


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Nov 29, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Explain how Civil Asset Forfeiture laws are constitutional but Red Flag Laws are not please.



  Both are blatantly unconstitutional.


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> You need to read and comprehend what you read from my link.
> What does this say?
> *CIVIL FORFEITURE IS NOT PERMITTED IN NORTH CAROLINA*​View attachment 732588



You failed to crop the section you refuse to read.


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 29, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Both are blatantly unconstitutional.



The Supreme Court has upheld Civil Asset Forfeiture. It is being done in all fifty states all the time. 

The last challenge resulted in a unanimous Court upholding the constitutionality of the laws.


----------



## Leo123 (Nov 29, 2022)

Tommy Tainant said:


> How did the Colorado Springs gunman get his firearms despite ‘red flag’ law?
> 
> 
> Colorado has laws designed to prevent dangerous people from buying guns – and yet they did not stop the deadly massacre at an LGBT+ club
> ...


It doesn't matter how many laws we make, nutters like Aldrich always find a way to commit mayhem.   That's among one of the many reasons law abiding folks need to have the right to own firearms to protect themselves.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 30, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> You failed to crop the section you refuse to read.


You can't even comprehend the screenshot of my source. That's not my fault. Tell me something are you a law enforcement officer in North Carolina?


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 30, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> The Supreme Court has upheld Civil Asset Forfeiture. It is being done in all fifty states all the time.
> 
> The last challenge resulted in a unanimous Court upholding the constitutionality of the laws.


North Carolina doesn't permit civil forfeitures


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 30, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Both are blatantly unconstitutional.


It doesn't happen in North Carolina. Don't take simps word as truth


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 30, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> North Carolina doesn't permit civil forfeitures



Ok. How do you explain this? 









						Asset Forfeiture Creates 'Perverse Incentive To Police For Profit'
					

Across North Carolina, police seize millions of dollars in cash and other assets from citizens on the mere suspicion it came from criminal activity. Experts say the state actually has strong laws to protect citizens. But a gaping loophole allows law enforcement across the state to circumvent...




					www.wunc.org
				












						U.S. steps up use of civil asset forfeiture, which is illegal in N.C.
					

It soon will be easier for the feds to take your property, even if you're not convicted of a crime. U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Wednesday that federal law officials will expand civil asset forfeiture, meaning they can more easily take your property without pressing criminal...




					www.carolinajournal.com
				












						Mooresville Police Face Legal Fight Over Cash Seized From Suspects
					

A judge in Statesville last week barred Mooresville police from doing something that's increasingly common among local police departments in North Carolina: turning over cash seized from suspects to the federal government. In 2019 alone, police departments in the state got back more than $12...




					www.wfae.org


----------



## CarsomyrPlusSix (Nov 30, 2022)

sealybobo said:


> Before Roe V Wade, what was the penalty for any doctors who gave abortions?  And women who got abortions?  Slap on the wrist to losing your medical license.  Today you guys want to treat it like murder.  You're even more conservative than you were before Roe V Wade!!!!


Please don’t lie and call contract killers “doctors.”

Doctors don’t deliberately and maliciously harm their patients by definition.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 30, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> Ok. How do you explain this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It a progressive paper try again. It's illegal in North Carolina. Anything being seized must be in connection with criminal activities and after the person has been convicted.


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 30, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> It a progressive paper try again. It's illegal in North Carolina. Anything being seized must be in connection with criminal activities and after the person has been convicted.



And the Police Department held in contempt by a Judge was liberal propaganda? 

I used three different sources. It’s a shame you won’t learn what is happening in your state.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 30, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> And the Police Department held in contempt by a Judge was liberal propaganda?
> 
> I used three different sources. It’s a shame you won’t learn what is happening in your state.


Even you're last source in Mooresville judge denied police.  Simp one more time it's not permitted in North Carolina. Criminal forfeitures are the only thing permissable. The papers were saying the forfeitures weren't criminal the police are saying the opposite.


----------



## BlackSand (Nov 30, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You don't need military rifles, no one does.


.

Try breaking into a military base and getting one.

.​


----------



## SavannahMann (Nov 30, 2022)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Even you're last source in Mooresville judge denied police.  Simp one more time it's not permitted in North Carolina. Criminal forfeitures are the only thing permissable. The papers were saying the forfeitures weren't criminal the police are saying the opposite.



And why were the Police held in contempt? Because they handed the money over to the Feds. No conviction. No arrest even. But the money is not in the hands of the man who had it. And what can your State Laws do? Nothing. The Feds gave it. Your State Law says the seized money goes to education. Federal Law says the money goes to the department. So the superiority of Federal Law makes a mockery of your State Laws, and assertions. Local cops seized the money in violation of your State Law. They passed it to the Feds to intentionally circumvent State Law. And nothing is happening to return the seized money to the victim.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 30, 2022)

SavannahMann said:


> And why were the Police held in contempt? Because they handed the money over to the Feds. No conviction. No arrest even. But the money is not in the hands of the man who had it. And what can your State Laws do? Nothing. The Feds gave it. Your State Law says the seized money goes to education. Federal Law says the money goes to the department. So the superiority of Federal Law makes a mockery of your State Laws, and assertions. Local cops seized the money in violation of your State Law. They passed it to the Feds to intentionally circumvent State Law. And nothing is happening to return the seized money to the victim.


Again as you've been shown from you're very own source civil forfeiture in North Carolina is not permitted 
 Move along simp.


----------

