# Circumcision



## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"

I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.

Here is the link to the FGM thread I refer to:

Increased "risk" of female genital mutilation?

The response though has me curious, male genital "mutilation"

So for the males who've been circumcised, do you think you've been mutilated?

Would you have preferred to have been given a choice to have been circumcised, rather than your parents make that choice for you as a baby and/or child?

Or are you quite happy with the situation?

Edited to add link.


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## Muhammed (Mar 30, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> So for the males who've been circumcised, do you think you've been mutilated?
> 
> Would you have preferred to have been given a choice to have been circumcised, rather than your parents make that choice for you as a baby and/or child?
> 
> Or are you quite happy with the situation?


No, no, yes.


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## Alex. (Mar 30, 2016)

FGM is defined by the WHO as "all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons". It is recognised as a violation of the human rights of women and girls. 
What is female genital mutilation and where does it happen?


circumcision is a surgical procedure that removes the foreskin (the loose tissue) covering the glans (rounded tip) of the penis. Circumcision may be performed for religious or cultural reasons, or for health reasons. 

Circumcision: Learn Pros and Cons of the Surgical Procedure

Not even in the same universe, just  a lame excuse to talk about a penis. Different theme same result as other threads.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

Alex. said:


> FGM is defined by the WHO as "all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons". It is recognised as a violation of the human rights of women and girls.
> What is female genital mutilation and where does it happen?
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Did you EVEN READ my OP? Obviously NOT, I already pointed out FGM was NOTHING like male circumcision.

OMG I better find the post where the question was asked to me "what about male genital mutilation.

I briefly took you off Ignore, because I instinctively knew you'd have to turn up in this thread, for OBVIOUS reasons....you're the "one brain cell's" BRAIN, you have to do the thinking for It when It gets out of It's depth.....surprised you didn't give It a Winner rating to boost It's self-esteem.


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## Alex. (Mar 30, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Alex. said:
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> > FGM is defined by the WHO as "all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons". It is recognised as a violation of the human rights of women and girls.
> ...


I responded to your OP.

Having read your very personal and unsolicited response to me I will say this: If you want to know more about a dick all you have to do is look in the mirror.


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## skye (Mar 30, 2016)

Alex. said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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Beautiful!   ^^^

Thank you Alex!


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

Alex. said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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Your response has NOTHING to do with what's in my OP, I specifically pointed out there is NO SIMILARITY to FGM....your reading comprehension obviously slipped tonight, your response is ridiculous in relation to my OP.

If you were able to think properly you'd know this yourself, but of course you're distracted aren't you.


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## FaerieGodfather (Mar 30, 2016)

The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.


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## Alex. (Mar 30, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Alex. said:
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Sure it did read, it again when you are sober. Oh BTW you just told me you had me on ignore. Please follow through on your promises. I think you are a dick hungry cookoo bird and I am not on here for that. I did not bother you you came after me.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

Alex. said:


> FGM is defined by the WHO as "all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons". It is recognised as a violation of the human rights of women and girls.
> What is female genital mutilation and where does it happen?
> 
> 
> ...



It's tragic Alex, I mean you, you are NOT a stupid man, and we did used to get along UNTIL I mentioned someone who obviously displays GREAT stupidity, unfortunately you can't handle this as you seem to have an "Internet Thing" for them.

OMG too weird. Anyhow, the proper point is:

So here is first, for this thread a direct copy and paste of what I refer to in my OP:

*"What about male genital mutilation?"

Then the below is my response:*

"No there is NO similarity between male circumcision and Female Genital Mutilation, the former the foreskin is removed, the latter EVERYTHING is removed as I explained in my previous post.

For male circumcision to be similar to Female Genital Mutilation the ENTIRE penis would have to be removed and a tiny hole left through which to urinate."

Then here is the thread and the above copy and paste is my post number 8 in the thread, I made other posts as you can see and Alex I get ratings on these posts for REASONS that have NOTHING to do with the fact they FANCY my avatar, they are rated on MERIT as these things SHOULD be....when people read the below link, you're going to look VERY silly Alex:

Increased "risk" of female genital mutilation?


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

Alex. said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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My God what a idiotic response Alex. WTF? Maybe it's you who aren't sober, your comments are getting more ridiculous.

I had to briefly keep you off Ignore so I could post what I just posted to you ie. the link to the FGM thread I was referring to in my OP.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

Alex. said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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If you can't bring yourself to read the thread I just posted link to, as it'll show how RIDICULOUS your posts in THIS thread are to me....I copy and paste my other main post from page one of the FGM thread....I'm responding in the below comments to a BIZARRE post where the person says there's no difference between people who have sex change operations and FGM.

Read it and weep, your "Internet Thing" probably WON'T even understand Alex, there's no depth in It you see, it's all Air swimming around It's head.

Anyhow, here are my comments:

*"The difference is, that people who want sex changes are usually adults and they make this decision themselves. Those subjected to Female Genital Mutilation are usually young girls, they can be babies or 8 years-old or whatever and they DO NOT make this choice themselves.

Another difference, this is male-to-female sex change, the doctors construct the entire lower female body part - hey I'm attempting to be diplomatic.

With Female Genital Mutilation, the mutilation is they remove pretty much ALL of the female lower body part and then leave a tiny hole through which to urinate. Then when they get to about the age of 11 years-old and are sold into marriage by their family for a dowry to some old paedophile in a village 50 miles away from the nearest hospital and they're having a baby, many of them die from haemorrhage because they can't get them proper medical assistance in time.

So there's actually NO similarity at ALL between sex change operations and Female Genital Mutilation."*


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.



So based on this, you agree with the person who said this to me in the FGM thread I just linked in this thread.


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## FaerieGodfather (Mar 30, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> FaerieGodfather said:
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> > The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.
> ...



No. The *degree* of mutilation is considerably more severe in most forms of FGM; it causes far greater impediments to sexual functioning for the victims.

I think the argument "what about male circumcision" in response to a thread about FGM is stupid, knee-jerk "what about the menz" MRA whining. We can oppose the forced genital mutilation of males on our own time, without hijacking discussion of a much more serious crime being committed against girls.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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I think there is no MORE serious crime than FGM, with the exception of actual murder, FGM is a wicked and fundamentally evil practice and as I said in the FGM thread that I've now linked in this thread, the World needs to shun anyone who commits it.

Regarding male circumcision, I have no problem with this myself, even for non-medical reasons.


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## FaerieGodfather (Mar 30, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> FaerieGodfather said:
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Why not? It still represents a fundamental modification of a person's body against their will, and it causes numerous medical problems with the penis as well.

Not to mention all the cases of boys "raised as girls" because the surgeon slipped.

There's no justification for imposing this procedure on anyone that does not request it themselves when they have reached the age of consent.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 30, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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I respect your point of view, you do raise some important questions, especially if the circumcision is performed badly.

I'm not sure how many boys have botched circumcisions, it's not something I've studied, I'm not sure if it's actually something I want to study as there might be photographs etc, which would be too much.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Mar 31, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...



I made a mistake earlier, I'm now told that Alex is a woman and NOT a man. Oddly I thought she was a man, Alex, of course can be short for Alexander OR Alexandra, so it's the latter and Alex is a woman.


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## defcon4 (Mar 31, 2016)

Alex. said:


> Sure it did read, it again when you are sober. Oh BTW you just told me you had me on ignore. Please follow through on your promises. I think you are a dick hungry cookoo bird and I am not on here for that. I did not bother you you came after me.


So you show up in her thread and she came after you? Interesting take....


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## defcon4 (Mar 31, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation


The myth of health benefits of male circumcision to make it a world wide practice has lost its "importance" anymore as science progresses.
Since it's becoming gradually known as a hoax, it is a money making procedure for scumbag doctors.


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## Alex. (Mar 31, 2016)

defcon4 said:


> Alex. said:
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> 
> > Sure it did read, it again when you are sober. Oh BTW you just told me you had me on ignore. Please follow through on your promises. I think you are a dick hungry cookoo bird and I am not on here for that. I did not bother you you came after me.
> ...


I responded substantively to the OP and your crazy BF went off the rails attacking and stalking me. Now why don't you answer my post.


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## irosie91 (Mar 31, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.



what biological function does the male foreskin serve in human males?


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## Alex. (Mar 31, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> FaerieGodfather said:
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> > The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.
> ...


"In male human anatomy, the *foreskin* is a double-layered fold of smooth muscle tissue, blood vessels, neurons, skin, and mucous membrane that covers and protects the glans penis and the urinary meatus when the penis is not erect."

Foreskin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Protection


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## irosie91 (Mar 31, 2016)

Alex. said:


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right-----protection in monkeys as they climb trees.     Humans wear undies.    In humans the foreskin creates a nidus for infection.    The exudate which lubricates
the glans-----becomes sequestered and easily infected.   For man who do not climb
trees in the nude-----the foreskin serves no function at all other than creating a situation that holds bacteria.     It is also an annoyance to examining physicians who are supposedly supposed to retract it in the general physical exam.    It also can be
a bit of trouble for a mother of an infants who SHOULD retract it to make sure the situation is properly cleaned


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## defcon4 (Mar 31, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> right-----protection in monkeys as they climb trees. Humans wear undies. In humans the foreskin creates a nidus for infection. The exudate which lubricates
> the glans-----becomes sequestered and easily infected. For man who do not climb
> trees in the nude-----the foreskin serves no function at all other than creating a situation that holds bacteria. It is also an annoyance to examining physicians who are supposedly supposed to retract it in the general physical exam. It also can be
> a bit of trouble for a mother of an infants who SHOULD retract it to make sure the situation is properly cleaned


It comes to proper hygiene. Your argument seems to support circumcision instead of cleanliness. It is not what you suggest, is it?


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## irosie91 (Mar 31, 2016)

defcon4 said:


> irosie91 said:
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> > right-----protection in monkeys as they climb trees. Humans wear undies. In humans the foreskin creates a nidus for infection. The exudate which lubricates
> ...



     There are limitations to the ability to keep the space between the glans and the
foreskin  "clean" which is why the transmission of both the human papilloma virus
and the  HTLV  viruses are more commonly transmitted by non-circumcised males
than circumcised males.     Irritation of the glans can also lead to phimoses.    
The foreskin serves no FUNCTION in human males------it can cause problems and often does including a much higher incidence of cancer of the glans in the uncircumcised than in the circumcised.    The argument that it serves an important
function is incorrect -------on the other hand,   the procedure sometimes, itself, 
causes problems----especially when performed inexpertly


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## longknife (Mar 31, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.



Please explain your supposition.

At age 75, I was circumcised again for a perfectly valid reason in that the foreskin was preventing me from urinating freely. I see no mutilation whatsoever in having it done at any age. It does not affect sexual function as does FGM.


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## ZackB (Mar 31, 2016)

The main reason you get circumcised is that it  makes it easier to keep your dick clean so you don't get yeast infections on your dick, and it is so it does not look like you have a dog dick. 

Now it is time for all of you sensitive types to shield your eyes from what I am about to say. Bonzi, Lucy, Chris, Westwall, and the rest of those with delicate sensibilities, please read no farther, for I do not want to get you upset. Go check the weather or something. 

One time I screwed this chick who had a yeast infection. She told me she had it, but we started screwing around, one thing led to another, and next thing you know we are banging. I got a yeast infection on my dick. Let me tell you, it hurt like hell. It burned and itched relentlessly. So unless you keep that uncircumcised dick clean then you are going to be getting these painful infections. I am circumcised, and I shower every day. But there are a lot of assholes out there who don't stay clean. Plus, there are the poor and homeless who cannot stay clean except to bathe in a convenience store restroom. Circumcision is a blessing, as it prevents a lot of needless infection and wicked pain.


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## Dogmaphobe (Mar 31, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I




The stupid person who did so was simply indulging in the typical Tu Quoque fallacy that is the stock and trade of Islamic apologists.  These people don;t know WHY they are expected to defend any and all things Islamic, they haven't the least little bit of concern about whether or not their views have any consistency, and they are motivated by such fear that they will say literally anything to avoid being called a racist as all they know is that they absolutely have to defend Islam and so defend Islam they do.

All the infantile "Well, they do it TOO" arguments never seem to compare apples to apples. That is not the intent. The intent is stupid and dishonest by very nature.


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## jillian (Mar 31, 2016)

Alex. said:


> FGM is defined by the WHO as "all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons". It is recognised as a violation of the human rights of women and girls.
> What is female genital mutilation and where does it happen?
> 
> 
> ...



it's an excuse to do that, but it's also something the anti-semites like doing to vilify and marginalize jew.

just saying


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## PK1 (Mar 31, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> "what about male genital multination?"


---
Circumcision is no longer needed in modern times, unless you are poor & homeless, and then it may be a health issue.
Like the Abrahamic religions, circumcision is a cultural relic.
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## irosie91 (Mar 31, 2016)

longknife said:


> FaerieGodfather said:
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> > The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.
> ...



my very young assistant in one of the places where I worked-----about 15 years ago-----then about 26 years old-----developed a phimosis-----and was circumcised.     We were friendly enough for
me to ask how much  "EFFECT"  it has on his-----"abilities"-----the answer was
NONE AT ALL.    There is actually no reason, physiologically,  that it would---HOWEVER it is a lot more traumatic for an adult than for a one week old baby.  
SHEEEESH -----did they sedate you?     I am convinced that the male foreskin is a
VESTIGIAL structure-------protection for apes that need something to protect the
tender glans------whilst he swings on vines and climbs trees or for dogs who get so
sexed up at the scent of a woman that they attempt to hump the firehydrant/   First
time I saw an uncircumcised male------I had to hold my breath to keep from laughing----I have four brothers-----(jews)    I was just not accustomed to seeing a
man who whose family jewels resemble that of a dog


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## saveliberty (Mar 31, 2016)

Start a lobotomy or lack of reading comprehension thread Lucy.  You have attracted numerous contributors.

If I read the OP correctly, you suggest there is a vast difference between female genital mutilation and a male circumcision.  Did anyone really dispute that or just troll you?


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## martybegan (Mar 31, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...



Well I'm snipped, and everything works just fine. Less maintenance as well.

I'm married to someone from a culture that doesn't do male circumcison, but my wife said it is up to me, and I am probably gonna get it done if we have boys.


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## martybegan (Mar 31, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Start a lobotomy or lack of reading comprehension thread Lucy.  You have attracted numerous contributors.
> 
> If I read the OP correctly, you suggest there is a vast difference between female genital mutilation and a male circumcision.  Did anyone really dispute that or just troll you?



There are a few groups out there that think male circumcision is just the worst thing in the world.


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## irosie91 (Mar 31, 2016)

saveliberty said:


> Start a lobotomy or lack of reading comprehension thread Lucy.  You have attracted numerous contributors.
> 
> If I read the OP correctly, you suggest there is a vast difference between female genital mutilation and a male circumcision.  Did anyone really dispute that or just troll you?



there are DEGREES of  FGM-----not all of them are all that horrific------but it is true
that they have no value at all and probably all are dangerous and diminish sexual
"pleasure"-------


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## martybegan (Mar 31, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> saveliberty said:
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> > Start a lobotomy or lack of reading comprehension thread Lucy.  You have attracted numerous contributors.
> ...



Some cultural groups have gone with a symbolic method, where they basically just prick the clitoris with a pin as if to say "yeah we did it" and then its done. 

Not sure how prevalent that is, but I would assume doing it this way wouldn't be considered mutilation.


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## PK1 (Mar 31, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> FaerieGodfather said:
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> > The foreskin serves valid biological purposes in the function of the penis. Removing it without medical cause is absolutely mutilation.
> ...


---
Pathological phimosis is rare.
Otherwise, the non-pathological variant is normal and easily overcome (pun intended) with frequent masturbation.

Circumcision is only needed for families who don't practice decent hygiene and criticize masturbation.  
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## defcon4 (Mar 31, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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You are referencing uncircumcised people as dogs and monkeys. Is that a goyim hatred? I thought you weren't racist. Oh well... it makes no difference if there is one more or less....


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## Coyote (Mar 31, 2016)

There is no comparison between FGM and circumcision done on male infants.  Regardless of what you think of male circumcision there are no known negative health effects, and no memory of it.  Doing it on an adult female is horrendous.  I don't see how you can make comparisons in that case.


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## Syriusly (Mar 31, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...



I would have preferred not to have been circumcised. 

But my parents thought they were doing the right thing.

If I had a son, I wouldn't circumsize him- if he wants to get one later, that would be up to him.


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## irosie91 (Apr 1, 2016)

Coyote said:


> There is no comparison between FGM and circumcision done on male infants.  Regardless of what you think of male circumcision there are no known negative health effects, and no memory of it.  Doing it on an adult female is horrendous.  I don't see how you can make comparisons in that case.



I think when done----female circumcision----for muslims ---is done as is male circumcision----at early adolescence.    Like about 12 years----THEY DO REMEMBER------Contrary to my usual practice of   "GO ASK A MUSLIM"-----DON"T----
you would have to know the person VERY VERY well to get into such an issue.  
AND,  ABSOLUTELY,  don't ask  "so what happened to your sisters  !!!!  ??     
even I never got into that one


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## irosie91 (Apr 1, 2016)

defcon4 said:


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your comment is idiotic-----muslims are circumcised-------are you suggesting that I am "RACIST"  against  Hispanic catholics and LOVE muslims so much more? -----
gee------talk to the people who claim I hate muslims.    Hindus are not circumcised----I have EXPRESSED a strange FONDNESS for them


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## PK1 (Apr 1, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> ... muslims are circumcised-------
> Hindus are not circumcised----


---
Wikipedia agrees with you about who is circumcised:

_The World Health Organization (WHO) has estimated that *globally one-third* of males aged 15 years and over *are circumcised*, with almost 70% of those being Muslims._

Prevalence of circumcision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, unless one is a Muslim or Jew, it's not a big deal to be natural.
.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 1, 2016)

PK1 said:


> irosie91 said:
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I have read that at one point in America that 90% of males had been circumcised, this was from turn of 20th Century until about the mid-1960s, this now has diminished significantly. Canada though didn't mimic her American neighbours, Canada never had a high rate of circumcision, I don't know if this is because they followed the lines of their Commonwealth kin.


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## HenryBHough (Apr 1, 2016)

Lucy causes me to wonder....when a tranniy has a penis custom built does he/she/it get to choose the style?


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## G.T. (Apr 1, 2016)

By tooth is the WORST


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 1, 2016)

HenryBHough said:


> Lucy causes me to wonder....when a tranniy has a penis custom built does he/she/it get to choose the style?



Well, I can say it's not a topic I've given much thought to Henry, until you mention this. I don't know, maybe they're just happy with a constructed penis that works.


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## defcon4 (Apr 1, 2016)

HenryBHough said:


> Lucy causes me to wonder....when a tranniy has a penis custom built does he/she/it get to choose the style?


  and you make me wonder why are you such an idiot with your unrelated post to the thread.


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## BULLDOG (Apr 1, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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Cases of boys raised as girls because the surgeon slipped? That is dumber than most dumb things said here.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Apr 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...



I am not circumcised, but when I was about thirteen the uncle that was raising me had to have one done on him because the skin around the head of his penis had shrunk and was ripping, so they cut him and he was almost fifty years old at that time.

After he had the circumcision done my aunt took me to my doctor asking to have me done, and my doctor called her a idiot in the office and told her there was no reason for me to have one done unless I wanted it done, and I told him no.

There are a good arguments to have it done and not done, and to me it is a personal choice that should be left to the child and parents should stop the barbaric ritual.

If a child make the choice in their teen so be it, but I was never going to have it done, and the main reason they do it when the child is a baby is the fact it hurt when it is being done, and as a baby you will never remember it but as a adult or young male the circumcision will be scared into your memory, and again not worth it.

As for the hygiene factor, well the male need to wash their private area daily, and after sexual relations they should wash and if any type of contamination in the region should be washed and keeping it clean will make sure you never need a circumcision...

Just my opinion...


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## Gracie (Apr 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> With Female Genital Mutilation, the mutilation is they remove pretty much ALL of the female lower body part and then leave a tiny hole through which to urinate.


My understanding of female circumcision is....women in the ME are not supposed to feel pleasure. Hence, removing the clitoris.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 1, 2016)

Gracie said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
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> > With Female Genital Mutilation, the mutilation is they remove pretty much ALL of the female lower body part and then leave a tiny hole through which to urinate.
> ...



This is because women in the ME are treated as third class citizens, they have no rights, and are controlled completely by the men. What greater show of male control over women than even controlling the female sexual organ by removing nearly ALL of it.

It's absolutely horrific, I can think of nothing more horrific regarding the violation of a woman, except raping and murdering said woman.

I have no problem with male circumcision, whether it's for historically religious reasons or for medical purposes, there are reasons FOR male circumcision....there are NO reasons for FGM.


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## Gracie (Apr 1, 2016)

And unfortunately, they are so brainwashed, the mothers do it to their daughters themselves.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 1, 2016)

Gracie said:


> And unfortunately, they are so brainwashed, the mothers do it to their daughters themselves.



A few months ago, there was an awful documentary on one of the satellite channels, it was an hour long thing, I could only manage 10 minutes and that was it.

There was also a documentary on the week earlier, this about women who've had acid thrown in their faces in Afghanistan for refusing the male members of their families orders on anything from when the dinner should be on the table to that they went to the local shop whilst not accompanied by a male relative.

That these things are not given higher attention in the MSM and amongst the so-called Human Rights Groups is a complete disgrace.


----------



## Gracie (Apr 1, 2016)

Their customs, their problems. As long as they keep their 3rd world ways there and not bring them here.
I tire of feeling indignant on behalf of peoples who continue to stay brainwashed and then pass it on to their children who pass it on to theirs.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 1, 2016)

Gracie said:


> Their customs, their problems. As long as they keep their 3rd world ways there and not bring them here.
> I tire of feeling indignant on behalf of peoples who continue to stay brainwashed and then pass it on to their children who pass it on to theirs.



The problem is that as they are brought to our nations, there's little evidence they want to integrate, so they just tend to live amongst each other in their own semi-closed areas in our nations.

With this they act like they do in their own nations in the ME, the women covered up etc, so with that we know they practice FGM, even though it's illegal in EVERY Western nation.

They're rooted in 7th Century customs, many of them being completely offensive to the 21st Century.

They shouldn't be allowed into Western nations, the majority of them hate everything about how we live in The West, I don't even know why they want to live in our nations in the first place, they certainly don't adhere to the When In Rome, Do As The Romans motto.


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## alpine (Apr 1, 2016)

You cash out pretty good at the end, worth it...


----------



## Gracie (Apr 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Their customs, their problems. As long as they keep their 3rd world ways there and not bring them here.
> ...


Some women break free. Not a lot, but some.


----------



## chikenwing (Apr 1, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...


I was circumcised at age 28,it was an unpleasant experience, but would do it again. Wife liked the new me much better.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 1, 2016)

Gracie said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



Yes they do, I wish we could help more break free, but if anyone even attempts to suggest this they're called "racist" or something.


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## Gracie (Apr 2, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> > Lucy Hamilton said:
> ...


I managed an apartment complex in Oxnard and one of the couples renting a unit were from Pakistan...or was it Iraq? Somewhere over there. Anyway, I heard lots of yelling by the guy on some days. Other days, silence. Then one day as I was walking the grounds, I heard her screaming STOP STOP OUCH STOP and I headed up the stairs and banged on the door. He opened it..all sweaty and face all red, her standing way back holding her face. He asked me what I wanted and I said "to talk to your wife". She told me to go away...she was fine...but she had to show her face to say it and I saw the bruises on her face.
That was it for me. I told her to come to me and she is inching her way towards me and he blocks the door. I said "you wanna try that shit with me? Really? I will kick your ass from here to there, asswipe. COME HERE, LADY" and he was aghast. Shocked. But he stepped back. She came to me and I took her hand and led her out the door to my apartment. I told her "you are in the USA now. He cannot do that to you. It is against the law here. Leave his sorry ass". She cried, was scared, but she did leave him. I gave him notice to move. So yes...some break free. And the men? Pussies.


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## Gracie (Apr 2, 2016)

I need to write a book. Managing apartment complexes for over 40 years....I have a shitload of stories.


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 2, 2016)

Gracie said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > Gracie said:
> ...



You did well, because yes this sort of behaviour isn't acceptable in our nations. Many of the women are just terrified to leave and we know why, because if the male family members find them they'll try and do something grotesque to them.

I really wish Western Governments had a plan to include these Muslim women, in the domestic abuse programmes they already have. The Islamic communities say this isn't any of our business, but if they're doing this in our nations, then it is our business.

The men are cowards.


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## Gracie (Apr 2, 2016)

This little gal...omg...she did the most beautiful embroidery. Shawls, doilies, tablecloths. Stunning work. Small delicate hands and so talented. He was a jerkoff asshole.


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## Bruce_T_Laney (Apr 2, 2016)

Gracie said:


> This little gal...omg...she did the most beautiful embroidery. Shawls, doilies, tablecloths. Stunning work. Small delicate hands and so talented. He was a jerkoff asshole.



Here in Houston, Texas we have a massive Persian population along with a Palestinian population, and can tell you that the men can be asses.


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## PK1 (Apr 2, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


---
I've often wondered why there's been such a high circumcision rate (70-80%) in USA, whereas most immigrants came from countries with low rates.

I've concluded one main factor is *MONEY* ... for the medical profession (& Dental which loves X-rays).
*In USA, money is king*. Follow the money to understand decisions by the rich & powerful.
*Circumcision* procedure = income.

USA doctors also advise their patients to use *anesthesia*, even when not necessary.
In my own case, i had a colonoscopy without anesthesia, although anesthesia is standard procedure in USA but *not* in other countries.
I also had my wisdom teeth pulled while conscious, against the doc's advise. The alternative, NO2 (laughing gas), was a lot of fun & the procedure only took 12 minutes!
I'm sure my doctor's colleagues were not happy that i reduced their income.

.


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## FaerieGodfather (Apr 2, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...



It's a Catholicism versus Protestantism thing. Circumcision in the US is an outgrowth of Puritans' insane crusade against masturbation.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

FaerieGodfather said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > PK1 said:
> ...



it is news to me that the Puritans engaged in circumcision.   You have a link?


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > PK1 said:
> ...



colonoscopy is done routinely without anesthesia-------as is extraction  of wisdom teeth-------


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...



Of course.  There isn't enough skin left to facilitate a full erection without "borrowing" from the surrounding skin.  Has left the scrotum stretched out.  Yeah. That is exactly the word I would use.



> Would you have preferred to have been given a choice to have been circumcised, rather than your parents make that choice for you as a baby and/or child?



Obviously forcing a medically unnecessary procedure on anyone is a human rights violation.  But hey, back then people were too barbaric to know better. Apparently..



> Or are you quite happy with the situation?



I've learned to accept it.  I'm sure it's better for most partners that I've had that it takes me so long to get off.  Though perhaps a couple felt
 insulted..


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## NoNukes (Apr 3, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...


I am happy that I was circumcised and do not feel mutilated


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## Lucy Hamilton (Apr 3, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > Lucy Hamilton said:
> ...



I've found your medical knowledge in this thread very interesting and informative.


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

Circumcision causes gayness.  It cuts away your neuro-sensors for sex, so the only way you can make yourself whole again is to take it from other dicks.  This is the sub-conscious psycho-analysis of circumcision, and of the process of becoming gay.  Would you like to be gay?


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## Anong (Apr 3, 2016)

I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
Is that true? and above all...why do they want to be circumcised?


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

Anong said:


> I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> Is that true? and above all...why do they want to be circumcised?


My theory is it is cultural and comes from Christianity, which comes from Judaism.


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## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

Lucy Hamilton said:


> On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> 
> I said to them that there was no similarity at all between Female Genital Mutilation and male circumcision, for there to be essentially the entire penis pretty much would have to be removed.
> 
> ...



The reason why a lot of boys are circumcised is for cleanliness sake.  It makes it easier for a little boy to clean.  Some men who are not circumcised actually end up being circumcised as adults.  I think it is much less painful and traumatizing when they are newborns and can't remember.  They also heal faster.  Circumcision can also help prevent the spread of STDs.


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

Anong said:


> I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> Is that true? and above all...why do they want to be circumcised?


Yes, 80++% of them are circumcised, hence they are gay.  They want to be circumcised because they want to be gay.  In America, being a queered fag poofter gay dick is the fastest way to make money.  Most of my clients are gay men.  They have more money than anyone else.  If you are from Asia, let us know what the Asian preference is, circumcision, or keeping the dick in its original form?  Which way does it look better, anyway?


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Anong said:
> 
> 
> > I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> ...


No.  The New Testament makes a point to stop circumcision, when Jesus argues in the gospels that it doesn't make men more moral.


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## Muhammed (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> ...


I'd rather not remember it.


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Lucy Hamilton said:
> 
> 
> > On another thread the other day, thread topic involved Female Genital Mutilation, one of the great evils, someone responded to me "what about male genital multilation?"
> ...


Is that because girls just don't trust men to wash their dicks?  Even if men wash it?


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Anong said:
> ...


So the ten commandments no longer matter? Sure the law was done away with but the fact is OT principles are very much embraced in Christianity. God had them circumcised for a reason and God knows best.


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## Anong (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Anong said:
> 
> 
> > I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> ...


I didn't know being gay was so popular in the US.... O_O
anyways I've never seen in my experience a circumcised man. All the men I've seen (not many to be honest) were "normal"
I think we Asian women don't love circumcision too much


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



Galatians 5:2 against circumcision: 

*2*Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. *3*Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. *4*


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

Anong said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Anong said:
> ...


Then looks like Asian women don't like if their boyfriends are gay.  In the USA on the other hand, pop music sales volumes show in hard dollar figures, that the best selling artists for female buyers are the gay ones.  This is a financial fact.


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > anotherlife said:
> ...


He was talking about the bigger issue. You can cherry pick for any point but being circumcised didn't have meaning to god anymore since the law was null and void, payed in full as the theme goes. 

However, you are assuming Christianity wasn't a religion that established tradition. I'm not saying it's right but the church is the church.

History of Circumcision
In the Western world, circumcision has long been associated with the Jew Abraham (c. 2000 BC) and the Jewish people. It must be noted that during a famine in Judea, Abraham sojourned in Egypt in c. 2000 BC and became friends with the Pharaoh. (Genesis 12:10-20) Perhaps he learned about circumcision there. Because Abraham is the father of all who have faith in the one God and in His Son Jesus, the Messiah, (Romans 4:16) Christians revere Abraham and many have always circumcised their children. Jesus of Nazareth was circumcised:


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## strollingbones (Apr 3, 2016)

son should be like father....if a man is clean he is clean regardless...if a man is nasty ..he is nasty regardless...sadly you just cant have an apple head without that pesky foreskin being gone...


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

strollingbones said:


> son should be like father....if a man is clean he is clean regardless...if a man is nasty ..he is nasty regardless...sadly you just cant have an apple head without that pesky foreskin being gone...


Sure you can. Just polish the apple.


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## strollingbones (Apr 3, 2016)

its just not the same.....take my word for it...and how do you know about apple polishing?


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...


I think circumcision has become more about gay envy in modern times instead of God's laws.  I know that circumcised men marvel in my uncircumcised one to the point, that they even exercise mine pushing it up and down.  This strong is their gay envy to recapture what was taken away from them.  It is possible, that they wouldn't be gay, if they hadn't been circumcised and made envious thereby in the first place.


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > anotherlife said:
> ...


I think no one is manning your wheelhouse.


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Circumcision causes gayness.  It cuts away your neuro-sensors for sex, so the only way you can make yourself whole again is to take it from other dicks.  This is the sub-conscious psycho-analysis of circumcision, and of the process of becoming gay.  Would you like to be gay?



um, what?


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Circumcision causes gayness.  It cuts away your neuro-sensors for sex, so the only way you can make yourself whole again is to take it from other dicks.  This is the sub-conscious psycho-analysis of circumcision, and of the process of becoming gay.  Would you like to be gay?
> ...


What, you don't like my newly printed clinical psychology degree?


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > anotherlife said:
> ...



It might make guys more misogynistic, but lots of straight guys are misogynistic.  It might make a guy more dependent on visual stimulus, but if one doesn't like looking at dudes, that isn't going to swing things in that favor.


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## PK1 (Apr 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Jesus of Nazareth was circumcised


---
_"Jesus of Nazareth was circumcised"_

How do *you* know that?
1) What's your source?
2) What is the source of the person claiming that in your source?
3) Was Jesus observed naked, or was it assumed he was circumcised because he came from a Jewish family?
.


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## PK1 (Apr 3, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > Lucy Hamilton said:
> ...


---
You are *INCORRECT*.
I was speaking from my own experience and that of my doctor's.

This writer's experience mirrors mine:
_"I’m one of an elite group of *American patients*. Only about *one percent* of us undergo colonoscopy *without sedation*. 
...
Dr. Horst says he performs about *two to five percent *of colonoscopies *without sedation*, “higher than the general rate because I have a small reputation for success at that.” ...
*in Europe* very roughly *half* of all colonoscopies are unsedated."

One Man’s Sedation-Free Colonoscopy (And Why You Should Try It Too)
._


----------



## PK1 (Apr 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Anong said:
> 
> 
> > I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> ...


---
Your theory is wrong. *Circumcision is not practiced by Christians*, unless their Jewish or Islamic doctors influence them for mostly cultural reasons, if not for financial gain (doctor's).
This map shows *in yellow* the countries & regions that have very *low rates of circumcision*:

 
.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > PK1 said:
> ...



sorry   PK    you wrote  ANESTHESIA ----not  SEDATION.      That little shot of
5 or 6 mg of VALIUM  is  SEDATION----not  ANESTHESIA.         Getting back to
ANESTHESIA        in reference to tooth extraction------the NOVACAINE is----strictly speaking  Anesthesia-------when I commented that extraction of wisdom teeth is
done ROUTINELY without anesthesia-----I was thinking  GENERAL ANESTHESIA----in fact ---------even I got a shot of novacaine--------NO (nitrous oxide) is---strictly speaking,  also a kind of anesthesia.      The valium used for colonoscopy is sedation and also used as a muscle relaxant.    Most people are awake during colonoscopy.      I do not think that either dentists or gastroenterologists  make their living off   ANESTHESIA


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Anong said:
> ...



in the US-----circumcision is a norm thruout most of the US------unrelated to the religion of the doctor--------it has been considered advisable on medical grounds for
almost the past century-------I doubt that it is a money making procedure.    Anyone
know how much hospitals charge?------my kid was snipped at home by a mohel----
the doc did not complain.   In  some hospitals the procedure is handed to the intern-----like spinal taps.      I have done 100s  (if not thousands)  of spinal taps------I have no idea how the procedure is billed-----I never collected a dime


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## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Lucy Hamilton said:
> ...



Not at all.  It just makes it easier.  An uncircumcised penis is more prone to infections, as well as STDs.  Those are just facts.


----------



## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Anong said:
> 
> 
> > anotherlife said:
> ...


----------



## PK1 (Apr 3, 2016)

Anong said:


> I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> Is that true? and above all...why do they want to be circumcised?


---
Yes, about 70-80% of *USA* (not Mexico or south America) families circumcise their infants ... for *cultural* reasons or *financial* benefit to greedy doctors, not good medical reasons.

Here is an explanation from an American group of doctors *opposed to infant circumcision* on medical grounds, which reflects European views:

_The group *Doctors Opposing Circumcision* accuses the members of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) of bias verging on outright *corruption*. The commentary names several members of the task force and lists their potential conflicts of interest, including strong *religious beliefs *in favor of the procedure, *economic incentive* in the promoting it, and, in one case, deriving financial income from a medical practice devoted to treating boys with circumcision-related problems. Lest it go unnoticed, an additional potential source of bias is noted: “It appears that no member of the task force had a foreskin.”

These recent “favorable” reviews of circumcision by the CDC and the AAP come at a time when peer medical organizations in other Western countries are moving in the exact opposite direction. *Medical organizations in England, Canada, Australia, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, and Germany all oppose routine infant circumcision on medical grounds.*_

Why Is Circumcision So Popular in America?
.


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## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Anong said:
> 
> 
> > I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> ...



It looks nicer when it's circumcised.    It's cleaner too.  It is recommended in some third world countries to slow the spread of HIV as well.


----------



## PK1 (Apr 3, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > irosie91 said:
> ...


---
You have a good point about sedation vs full anesthesia.
However, in my own case, my initial doctors recommended *full anesthesia *for both wisdom tooth removal and colonoscopy. I immediately changed doctors!
*I prefer the natural approach.*
Here are clips from a doctor i respect:

_Sedation for colonoscopies has become a bit controversial. At issue is the growing practice in some parts of the United States of giving patients unnecessary *full anesthesia.* This is typically performed with the drug Propofol, a powerful sedative that must be administered and monitored by an anesthesiologist. This colonoscopy anesthesia can be an expensive option 
...
the use of *full anesthesia* for colonoscopy procedures is adding $1.1 billion annually to medical costs._
_...
The JAMA study found that full anesthesia was used in more than 30 percent of all colonoscopies and other gastroenterology procedures in 2009, up 14 percent from 2003. It is most widely used in the northeastern United States, where *59 percent of all these procedures were done with full anesthesia*. In the west, only 13 percent of colonoscopies were being done with full anesthesia._
.


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## PK1 (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> PK1 said:
> 
> 
> > Anong said:
> ...


---
Apparently, looks is in the eye of the  beholder ... mostly what you are used to or influenced to believe (both = cultural/*psychological patterns*).

The asian poster had a different view.

Cleanliness is non issue for me. I am clean & only sleep with clean women.

.


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> It looks nicer when it's circumcised.    It's cleaner too.



Also the rationale that is used by some cultures to rationalize female circumcision.


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## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > PK1 said:
> ...



True.  As opposed to the other poster, I've never been with a guy who was UNcircumcised, but I've seen pictures, and it looks weird.


----------



## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > It looks nicer when it's circumcised.    It's cleaner too.
> ...



Not really, the rational is so that the female doesn't get pleasure from sex.


----------



## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Lessening the enjoyability is obviously behind both procedures.  Entirely about trying to get people to focus on things other than sex.  It has failed in both cases.

Orgasm in ritually circumcised African women

In the American case, it has failed because men find stimulation from visual media as well.  Hence why pornography is so widespread here. Cause and effect.


----------



## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Agit8r said:
> ...



I disagree.  Male circumcision does in fact have health benefits, whereas female circumcision CAUSES health problems.


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> I disagree.  Male circumcision does in fact have health benefits.



Dogmatized mythology. There are not any net benefits.


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## ChrisL (Apr 3, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree.  Male circumcision does in fact have health benefits.
> ...



Doctors disagree with you.  I will take their words over yours, thanks.


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Most doctors in the world do not.  Most that do work in a system of profit-driven medicine.  Their motivations are transparent to anyone who doesn't agree with them for dogmatic or sexist reasons.


----------



## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


But what if this is propaganda?  Logically, by the way, it should be easier to infect a dick without its protective skin.


----------



## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Anong said:
> ...


No, you don't get off this easy.  Now confess that you picked your boyfriend because he is gay.


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## miketx (Apr 3, 2016)

Moses peered up to the heavens and said to God, " So let me get this straight. You want us to cut the ends of our dicks off?"


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

miketx said:


> Moses peered up to the heavens and said to God, " So let me get this straight. You want us to cut the ends of our dicks off?"



Ironically, the ancients cut less off in their days then the 20th century circumcisers did.  It became a point of pride, that they leave the bare minimum required to facilitate procreation--and that, not by leaving the organ with any particular sensation, but by pressure and friction.

And we call the ancients barbarians...


----------



## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Jesus of Nazareth was circumcised
> ...


I don't believe any of the story but according to the accounts he was a Jew and the Jews were circumcised.


----------



## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Anong said:
> ...


This is still mostly a Christian nation according to those that self identify as such and most males are circumcised, by a wide margin. Patches on a map off the internet doesn't change it.


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> in the US-----circumcision is a norm thruout most of the US------unrelated to the religion of the doctor--------it has been considered advisable on medical grounds for
> almost the past century-------I doubt that it is a money making procedure.    Anyone
> know how much hospitals charge?------my kid was snipped at home by a mohel----
> the doc did not complain.   In  some hospitals the procedure is handed to the intern-----like spinal taps.      I have done 100s  (if not thousands)  of spinal taps------I have no idea how the procedure is billed-----I never collected a dime


I heard the doctors just work for tips.


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> In the American case, it has failed because men find stimulation from visual media as well.  Hence why pornography is so widespread here. Cause and effect.


It causes porn?


----------



## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> > In the American case, it has failed because men find stimulation from visual media as well.  Hence why pornography is so widespread here. Cause and effect.
> ...



It causes men to need more secondary arousal. Pornography is typically how that is accomplished when masturbating.


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

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That explains all the porn they found in the Dead Sea Scrolls.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > in the US-----circumcision is a norm thruout most of the US------unrelated to the religion of the doctor--------it has been considered advisable on medical grounds for
> ...



no one tips for spinal taps------the patients seem to think that THEY did the doc
a favor as in   "yeah----practice on me...."      maybe babies tip for circumcision----
I don't know----not my field.     I have never done one-------and CERTAINLY would not have snipped my son or LET AN INTERN DO IT.-----its those MACHINE things made  for interns that sometimes put out a bad result------ALWAYS CONSULT A 
COMPETENT MOHEL----practice makes perfect.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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you can cite some studies that reveal the use of porn in   snipped males  vs non-snipped males? -------if not---DO ONE------any such study would be BOUND to make
THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE----or better yet   ****LANCET****


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

PK1 said:


> Anong said:
> 
> 
> > I read almost 80% of American males are circumcised.
> ...



LOL----try reading the stuff that comes out of SAUDI ARABIA -----lots of complications


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

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South Africa, where male circumcision has recently been reintroduced, has the highest statistics of penis amputations as a result of initial circumcisions.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


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shortage of mohels there-------in fact----there have been programs devoted to SENDING competent mohels over there------to TEACH the procedure.   ALWAYS
consult a competent Mohel


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

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The most frequent complication seems that they leave too little skin on the dick, so every erection becomes so painful, that sex becomes impossible.  How do you fix that?  Do you just castrate the balls off, to prevent erections?


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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Are you talking about male or female procedures?


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

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I saw an ad about it once, and it featured nurse girls doing the actual circumcisions.  So, can just regular nurses be trained to do it?  I think this should be possible, because this is not a complicated operation.  In fact, I think that in the USA too, nurse girls are the ones usually doing the circumcisions, at least in the adult patient category.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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I have NEVER heard of such a complication-----but you are only slightly confused----the complication is SCARRING at the site of surgery-----when the procedure is done
by an incompetent     -------also in cases of poor aftercare------which is in the hands of MOM.   ----------Scars CONTRACT-----it is part of their normal evolution----the big
complication of circs done on adolescent boys as in Saudi arabia    (the Saudis put out a medical literature-------its anybody's guess what is going on in places like
Pakistan)


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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I had some degree of that until my late teens when I had stretched it out enough to be fully functional.  It's probably very under-reported, considering how many products there are in this country for penis problems.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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Male.     there is a kind of reluctance on Saudi arabia to put out candid studies on
their  FGM s    -------keep in mind-----until only fairly recently-----Saudi arabia DENIED the existence of  HIV   ----in the HOLY PENNINSULA-----and the standard
teaching was  "SCHIZOPHRENIA does not exist amongst muslims"


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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That is probably the case. It explains why they have no empathy for the wailing infant.


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> South Africa, where male circumcision has recently been reintroduced, has the highest statistics of penis amputations as a result of initial circumcisions.


Give them time. It's an art form.


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## Iceweasel (Apr 3, 2016)

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It was a joke rosie.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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some degree of what?-------if anything the issue would be SCARRING at the area where the glans BEGINS  ---ie where the CUT was done.     I have seen the results of bad cuts   -----like RAGGED EDGES-------but never encountered the painful issue.       What sort of person DID you?


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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Then why does the shaft have hair growing up it.  natural shaft skin does not.


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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Who knows. Doctor or nurse. Someone at a hospital.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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NOPE    nurse girls cannot even do spinal taps


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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I have never seen a hairy shaft--------


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## anotherlife (Apr 3, 2016)

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This is difficult to visualize.  Do you mean scarring at the place where they do the cut?  Do they do the cut where the original foreskin starts away from the body of the dick?  Or is the cut somewhere in the middle of the foreskin so some is left?  Then, in the first case, the scar would strangle the dick itself, and in the second case, the scar would recreate the tightening of the skin, that the circumcision wanted to prevent in the first place.  And what kind of aftercare can you do to prevent scarring?


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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For the sake of good taste, I'll spare you.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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switch board operator?      night guard?


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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the procedure as I observed it involves clamping of the foreskin------and separation thereof off the glans by traction------incision  at the place where the foreskin starts and the shaft ends.     It is a surgical wound and requires the same care that all
surgical wounds require------hemostasis   (do not leave any bleeding or blood IN 
THE WOUND)   and  antisepsis------keep it clean----and covered for awhile----a few
dabs of anti septic goonk every few hours for a day or two.       Not to be done by
an inebriate.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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you could post a picture under a DIFFERENT    SN


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## PK1 (Apr 3, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> ...
> leave the bare minimum required to facilitate procreation--and that, not by leaving the organ with any particular sensation, but by pressure and friction.
> 
> And we call the ancients barbarians...


---
I wonder if Viagra/Cialis/etc have more sales among circumcised guys.
.


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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If you consult a diagram of the penis in it's natural state, there is the shaft skin at the bottom, the outer and inner parts of the foreskin, and the internal structure--the "head" as it were.

The penis in its modified state has differing amounts of these components depending on how it is cut.  It is clear from mine that the practitioner was going for a "high and tight" cut, but underestimated the amount of skin to leave by about 3 inches.  So there is 2+ inches of inner foreskin lining below the head, and then about an inch of natural shaft skin, and then 3+ inches of of hairy skin borrowed from the scrotum and/or mons.

illustration of "high and tight" style in link [NSFW]

Circumcision Styles


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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I doubt it.      Viagra-----is like cocaine and heroin-----a matter of WHO CAN AFFORD IT.     They have become  "RECREATIONAL"    "meds"


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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Considering that a vast majority of American men have been subjected to the procedure, they'd have to.  The percentages would be interesting to know.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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there are all kinds of variables that one would have to address in doing a retrospective study of   CIALIS use amongst  circed vs non-circed.       It IS true that when Viagra was first introduced------a fast way to riches was   "WRITE SCRIPTS for people shipping the stuff to the oil rich emirates". ---------do not try to theorize
CIRCUMCISION DID IT-----------it was a cultural issue


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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I didn't speculate that.  I just said it would be interesting to see the data.  
I also pointed out that of course a vast majority of older males are circumcised, so of course a vast majority of viagra users are going to be circumcised.  I was being fair and balanced.

I said that it contributes to male sexual dysfunction, not erectile dysfunction.  I don't have any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise on the latter.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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you have a link to the  "contributes to sexual dysfunction"  theory?      I mean other than the idiot    "LETS COUNT THE NERVE ENDINGS"   data?


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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I have all the evidence I need right here.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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A SINGLE ANECDOTE -----is a case report------not a study.     Case reports are 
IMPORTANT--------but absent an actually well done study---do not rise to
the level of changing practice


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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I;m certainly not expecting this discussing thread to influence the medical community.  

That said, I think an honest discussion requires me to be candid about my own experiences.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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excellent-------case studies ------are the backbone------then comes the controlled study.     Seems to be that you are the victim of a slightly botched job  (sorry)   I have no idea how many jobs are BOTCHED--------I do not like that  plastibell
thing-------not that I have experience-----just that the damned thing LANDS in the
hands of the inexperienced


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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Mine appears to be a Mogen clamp method

Mogen clamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think that merely having an open discussion of the matter may be helpful in people understanding why they are as they are.  Until I read about how its done as an adult, I just assumed that I was born with said issues.  After all, it was just "taking a bit of skin off the tip" right? Wrong, it's a whole reconfiguration.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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I don't scar much in general.  There is just the telltale dark line, and an ugly little scar where the middle of the frenulum should be, and a few scattered remnants of the frenulum around there and some farther down the shaft, near the scar, where that upper portion of the inner foreskin lining ended up--turned inside out as it is by the procedure.

The veins on the outside end abruptly at the dark scar line.  I suspect that that more than anything accounts for the lack of particular sensation above that point, but idk for certain.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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sorry------I have seen lots of-------successful jobs------I have four brothers, one son----and examined lots of guys down there--------seems to me that you got a BOTCHED 
JOB --------"dark line"??      you get pigmentation at the site of INJURY------so do I---but not at the site of well done surgical procedures----"scattered remnants"-------I have seen some-----I call it  "RAGGED EDGES"   ------sorry----I usually associate
that problem with muslims done in muslim lands----at about age 12---ragged edges---- INSIDE OUT edge of the foreskin at the site of snip?       another form of ragged
edges.   --------uhm-------my relatives----brothers.   hubby,  kid-----all have perfectly
smooth cut lines.       I think two of my brothers were done IN HOSPITAL by doctors------but the rest I mentioned are MOHEL JOBS--------even hubby----done in a really third world-----(leaning to fourth)   country---------they would not have had a mogen clamp over there-----probably a -----a nice sharp knife-----I shudder to imagine what they thought was an ANTISEPTIC  ------???   maybe honey ??     That's a hint-----the primitive country in question  is known for honey production as well as classical
shariah shit   and constant tribal strife    (da jooos not so engaged-------now that you tell me your story -----I WONDER how they managed circumcisions which the babies SURVIVED!!!!)


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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From what I have read, the frenulum isn't very developed in most newborns.  Perhaps I was a little precocious. maybe they didn't break the adhesions very cleanly before commencing with the clamp 

The scar--a jagged-edged little divot-- under the corona seems to be a clue. Perhaps there was something unsightly left dangling there, that had to be tidied up.


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## irosie91 (Apr 3, 2016)

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what  "ADHESIONS" ???        the foreskin gets retracted using regular clamps----
the little long noses plier things sometimes called  "mosquitos"------no need to
break adhesions------there are none.-----then the CLIP.     The frenulum is not an issue---------as far as I recall anatomy------the frenulum is NOT attached to the foreskin which overlies the glans---------it is at the BASE of the foreskin-------the part that stays hooked up -----I do not think
that the frenulum gets cut in a circumcision--------someone went TOO HIGH UP------????  When retracting the foreskin-------the FRENULUM is that part that limits the retraction so that
only the foreskin gets lopped off----,maybe a small little part of the frenulum gets cut ??????   ---like the very distal part    ???      Are you calling the frenulum an "ADHESION"?


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## Agit8r (Apr 3, 2016)

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Admittedly, I've never examined an intact penis on a person. I only can go on what I've read.  I only know that what is shown on wikipedia is something that I don't have one of

Frenulum of prepuce of penis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The adhesions referred to are what connects the glans to the foreskin until they naturally come loose during childhood or adolescence:

Foreskin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Muhammed (Apr 4, 2016)

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Thanks, you make me feel lucky that my circumcision wasn't botched.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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I don't think that's the case with guys.  They don't seem to have a problem enjoying sex after having a circumcision.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

anotherlife said:


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That's not true, and the reason why is because an uncircumcised penis has a lot of folds in it where infections can fester.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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You need therapy.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

Agit8r said:


> Iceweasel said:
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Plenty of circumcised men can masturbate without porn.   Lol.  I don't really think that normally it has any effects at all on sex or masturbation.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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Holy smokes.  What is wrong with you?


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

anotherlife said:


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What are "nurse girls?"  Lol.  I don't really think you know anything about what you're talking about.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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Sorry to hear that, but as Rosie said, the procedure must have been botched, and that is terrible.  Only experienced doctors should be performing the procedure.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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They're not supposed to take off a lot, just a little bit of excess skin, so I don't know what went wrong here.  Sounds like the doctor didn't really know what he was doing.


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

you have a FRENULUM-----under the shaft----it hooks you up to the top of your scrotum------I think.     A midline structure----like the frenulum of your tongue----hooking your tongue to the floor of your mouth-----sorta------restricts tongue PROTRUSION----very few people can reach their nose----but some people can


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> you have a FRENULUM-----under the shaft----it hooks you up to the top of your scrotum------I think.     A midline structure----like the frenulum of your tongue----hooking your tongue to the floor of your mouth-----sorta------restricts tongue PROTRUSION----very few people can reach their nose----but some people can



Is that something that is normally done during an infant circumcision?


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > you have a FRENULUM-----under the shaft----it hooks you up to the top of your scrotum------I think.     A midline structure----like the frenulum of your tongue----hooking your tongue to the floor of your mouth-----sorta------restricts tongue PROTRUSION----very few people can reach their nose----but some people can
> ...



what? ----touch one's nose with the tip of the tongue?   ----NOPE!!!     I once knew a Balkan lady who could do it----the tip of her nose kinda protruded downwards.   People with short frenulums under the tongue-----have some trouble talking----especially the letter  R    (the common name for the condition is "tongue tie"  )
Repair is simple------a SNIP


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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Cutting the frenulum.  Lol.  My auntie can touch her nose with her tongue.


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

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she is NOT tongue tied.      I cannot do it but I can do the  "R"  sound


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## PK1 (Apr 4, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> I don't think that's the case with guys.  They don't seem to have a problem enjoying sex after having a circumcision.


---
Unless the circumcision is botched.
Most of the men in this world, who are natural, don't seem to have problems enjoying sex as demonstrated by millions of years of propagation.

I still wonder if circumcised men have a greater need for Viagra/Cialis/etc after reaching age 50 and esp 60 ...
.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

PK1 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that's the case with guys.  They don't seem to have a problem enjoying sex after having a circumcision.
> ...



That is usually due to taking medications for things like diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.  Also, ALL men experience a decrease in testosterone as they age.


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## Muhammed (Apr 4, 2016)

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Personally, I never had sex before circumcision, I was just a baby.


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

PK1 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think that's the case with guys.  They don't seem to have a problem enjoying sex after having a circumcision.
> ...



wonder away----there is no such evidence in all this time.   As to BOTCHED CIRC----there are ALSO hazards in maintaining a foreskin.    Part of the Physical exam for
men---which is ROUTINE-----is the poor doc has to RETRACT the foreskins of non
circed men------what do you IMAGINE is the reason for that? ----------ok----I will tell
you--------it is to check for PENILE CANCER------the treatment is-----GUESS!!!!-----
ok---I will tell you-----AMPUTATION.        Of course there are cases in which the
forcskin CANNOT be retracted because of INFECTION------the end result of which is   ----guess........ok    I will tell you------STRANGULATION OF THE GLANS---leading to -----gangrene--------the treatment------well------amputatlion again.    
Add to the --------papilloma virus----cancer of the cervic to wifey and anal wart ---to either wifey or ------MALE FRIEND


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

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how sweet----a virgin baby-


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

*****MAZEL TOV----everyone-------Donald's grandson has been SNIPPED


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## Iceweasel (Apr 4, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> *****MAZEL TOV----everyone-------Donald's grandson has been SNIPPED


I think you've found your calling in life.


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

Iceweasel said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
> 
> > *****MAZEL TOV----everyone-------Donald's grandson has been SNIPPED
> ...



gee-----I never considered it


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## Iceweasel (Apr 4, 2016)

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It could lead to bigger things.


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## irosie91 (Apr 4, 2016)

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not with AGE


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## anotherlife (Apr 4, 2016)

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Okay, then here is the damning evidence against you, American LGBT woman.


ChrisL said:


> anotherlife said:
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Okay, here is the damning evidence against you.  

The average American woman now weighs as much as the average 1960s man

Consequently, your boyfriend would need a dick yard long, to get around your potbelly, if he wasn't gay. 

American liar exposed.  Hehehe.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

Well, some adult men do end up having to have a circumcision because of several disorders that can occur with the foreskin, one being "phimosis."  It's supposedly a very painful condition where the foreskin constricts, so whenever they get an erection it hurts them.  I imagine when a man has to undergo such a procedure (as an adult) it can effect his sex life in a negative way.  There is going to be much more severe scarring as an adult.


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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I'm actually tiny, as evidenced in my pictures.  Lol.  Very tiny.  5 foot 1 inch tall, about 104 pounds.  Why would I date a man who was gay?  You don't make any sense.  How old are you?  12?


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

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You don't seem very knowledgeable about sex.  Are you a child?


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## ChrisL (Apr 4, 2016)

Man, oh man, there is so much mental illness on this forum, it's pretty sad.    I pity some of you having to live like that.


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## anotherlife (Apr 4, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Man, oh man, there is so much mental illness on this forum, it's pretty sad.    I pity some of you having to live like that.


See?  Circumcision even causes mental illness. A terrible thing.


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## PK1 (Apr 5, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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---
Based on what I've observed in this thread, you & Chris appear to exhibit *confirmation bias*. Perhaps you have Jewish backgrounds, or simply carry US *cultural views*.
As a scientist, I try to be objective, with a natural viewpoint, i.e., why go against nature unless it makes sense (not cents).

I've read claims that_ "the International Journal of Men’s Health shows that circumcised men have a *4.5 times *greater chance of suffering from erectile dysfunction (ED) than intact men"_, but have not seen the methodological details to be convinced.

However, there are many medical views opposed to circumcision that are more credible (also from biased site):
_"when the father of the expected baby was circumcised, 81.9% of respondents were in favor of pursuing elective circumcision. When the father of the expected child was not circumcised, 14.9% were in favor of pursuing elective circumcision."

"the uncircumcised penis is significantly more sensitive. The most sensitive location on the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar on the ventral surface. Five locations on the uncircumcised penis that are routinely removed at circumcision are significantly more sensitive than the most sensitive location on the circumcised penis."_

_"Neonatal circumcision increased incremental costs by $828.42 per patient and resulted in an incremental 15.30 well-years lost per 1000 males. If neonatal circumcision was cost-free, pain-free, and had no immediate complications, it was still more costly than not circumcising. 
Neonatal circumcision is not good health policy, and support for it as a medical procedure cannot be justified financially or medically."_

_"A survey of women who have had sexual experience with circumcised and anatomically complete partners showed that the anatomically complete penis was preferred over the circumcised penis. ...
the mechanics of coitus were different for the two groups of men. Unaltered men tended to thrust more gently with shorter strokes."_

_"Women reported they were significantly more likely to have experienced vaginal dryness during intercourse with circumcised than with genitally intact men."_

Etc, etc ...
Medical Studies on Circumcision
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## ChrisL (Apr 5, 2016)

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It is actually recommended in places like Africa to slow the spread of disease.  Also, the difference in "feeling" has been reported as being negligible.


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## PK1 (Apr 5, 2016)

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What looks weird is related to cultural perspectives, experience & expectations.
Here's a view from another American woman (got it from Reddit):

_I still don't understand why circumcision is such a popular thing in the U.S. It is a completely unnecessary, religious, and barbaric form of genital mutilation. Why do people feel the need to do it to their children? Because it's the popular thing to do? Because it's "cleaner"?

I've been with circumcised guys and uncircumcised and I will ALWAYS prefer uncircumcised. They are so much more sensitive (in a good way). Foreskin is a lot of fun to play with. I find them more aesthetically pleasing (despite what the general consensus here in the U.S. is and in the porn industry). None of the uncut men I've been with have ever smelled funny or been unclean down there. An uncircumcised penis is not difficult to clean at all (I shower with my SO all the time and it takes the same amount of effort to clean as a circumcised penis).

To me, having your baby boy circumcised is like having your baby girl's labia chopped off for a "cleaner" look. Doesn't make much sense, does it?_
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## ChrisL (Apr 5, 2016)

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To each his/her own!


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## PK1 (Apr 5, 2016)

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Did you read the citation in my link that negates your Africa claim?

_A survey of South African men showed that circumcision had no protective effect in the prevention of HIV transmission. This is a concern, and has implications for the possible adoption of mass male circumcision strategy both as a public health policy and an HIV prevention strategy._

*Connolly, C. et al., South African Medical Journal 98(2008): 789-794*
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## ChrisL (Apr 5, 2016)

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And there are plenty of OTHER studies that say just the opposite.  They say that they have found there is a decline of spread of STDs with circumcision because it is easier for the men to keep it cleaner and there are less places for infection to fester.


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## irosie91 (Apr 5, 2016)

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at issue is the  MANNER IN WHICH CIRCUMCSION is done in south Africa.     A  study which came out of  SAUDI ARABIA ------which I read----several years ago----
found that the MANNER OF CIRCUMCISION was at issue------persons  
INCOMPLETELY circumcised in the Islamic manner -------were not as protected
from HARBORING the HIV virus as were persons circumcised in early infancy----
Islamic circumcision happens at about age 12-----and ends up OFTEN with
that which I, singularly,  call  "RAGGED EDGES"          Calls for TRAINING in
the art of circumcision are now ONGOING


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## irosie91 (Apr 5, 2016)

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right----not just  HIV----also  PAPILLOMA VIRUS-----the agent often at issue in
cancer of the cervix and anal wart.       As to  Keeping "cleaner" --that is conjecture---but probably true


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## PK1 (Apr 5, 2016)

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To keep it cleaner? LOL!
It's easy to *practice cleanliness*; just wash up the private parts BEFORE having sex ... applies to both women & men.
However, with men, it's easier to SEE what one is getting ...

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## ChrisL (Apr 5, 2016)

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Yes, and some people don't do that.  That is the reality of the situation, especially in third world countries where they sometimes don't have a shower or bath in their home, or sometimes may not even have a home.


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## PK1 (Apr 5, 2016)

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Therefore, perhaps we (WHO) should have a health policy that advocates circumcision for only *poor, unclean families* irregardless of senseless religious & other cultural factors?

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## ChrisL (Apr 5, 2016)

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It's an individual choice, or course.


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## irosie91 (Apr 5, 2016)

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very practical but-----not entirely REALISTIC


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