# Our Founding Fathers included Islam



## guno

*Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims


At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*

*Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*


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## Jroc

guno said:


> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*




I think your a muslim not really an atheist at all. Certainly no Jew


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## Picaro

I own a copy of the Koran, too. I also own a KJ bible, a Mormon bible, some books on Buddhism, Taoism, etc.

So what? Jefferson owned all kinds of books. Oening a Koran didn't seem to inhibit Jefferson any from declaring war on Muslim pirates raiding American ships.


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## DigitalDrifter

Islam and Muslims played zero role in the founding of this nation.
Even after 239 years Islam has had an incredibly minimal impact, other than a negative impact, on this nation.


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## Sunni Man

Face it........Islam is now woven into the cultural and political fabric of our nation.   .....


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## Vigilante

Yes, Islam was included by our Founding Fathers, BUT the CIA had a COVER UP going and NO ONE has tried a Freedom of Information Act about it!... Proof of Islam at the Founding!!!!


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## Coyote

Picaro said:


> I own a copy of the Koran, too. I also own a KJ bible, a Mormon bible, some books on Buddhism, Taoism, etc.
> 
> So what? Jefferson owned all kinds of books. Oening a Koran didn't seem to inhibit Jefferson any from declaring war on Muslim pirates raiding American ships.



Pirates are pirates.  I don't think anyone cares much what their religion is.


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## idb

The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.


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## Roadrunner

Sunni Man said:


> Face it........Islam is now woven into the cultural and political fabric of our nation.   .....


So is HIV.


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## Vigilante

idb said:


> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.



Be quiet... the muslim's find out, they'll BLOW IT UP!!!!!!


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## Andylusion

Aside from overstating the impact... was this a news flash to anyone?   Jefferson had all kinds of books about all kinds of religions.    And I wager most know Jefferson was not an orthodox Christian, given he created his own personal edited 'bible'.  Which the Bible itself clearly prohibits.

I have my own copy of the Qur'an.   That doesn't mean much.


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## Coyote

guno said:


> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*



That's a fascinating article - I had no idea...thanks for posting that


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## Coyote

Andylusion said:


> Aside from overstating the impact... *was this a news flash to anyone?*   Jefferson had all kinds of books about all kinds of religions.    And I wager most know Jefferson was not an orthodox Christian, given he created his own personal edited 'bible'.  Which the Bible itself clearly prohibits.
> 
> I have my own copy of the Qur'an.   That doesn't mean much.



Yes, it was.  Not that he had a Quran, but that rights for Muslims were an early test case for religious pluralism in our country that was originally invisioned as primarily Protestant.  Muslims, Jews, and Catholics were outside that pale.  It's an interesting read.


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## pismoe

good comment 'roadrunner' islam , hiv , herpes and just recently the gov added EBOLA . All woven into American society .


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## pismoe

and the Barbary pirates , I think that they did their piracy from their base in the 'Barbary states' which I think were Islamic sharia states Coyote .  I know that I care what the religion of the Barbary pirates was / is .


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## Delta4Embassy

Jroc said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
> 
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> 
> I think your a muslim not really an atheist at all. Certainly no Jew
Click to expand...


Since when is speaking the truth un-Jewish?


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## Jroc

Delta4Embassy said:


> Jroc said:
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> guno said:
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> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
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> 
> I think your a muslim not really an atheist at all. Certainly no Jew
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when is speaking the truth un-Jewish?
Click to expand...

Truth about what? this nutjob who is *not Jewish, *loves islam and slams Christians constantly.Who cares if Jefferson had a koran really? Stupid thread and islam had absolutely nothing to do with the founding of this country so the point of thread is what again? Maybe Leftist hate Christians but love islam We even have the muslim mouthpiece from CAIR here loving the thread


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## Coyote

pismoe said:


> and the Barbary pirates , I think that they did their piracy from their base in the 'Barbary states' which I think were Islamic sharia states Coyote .  I know that I care what the religion of the Barbary pirates was / is .



I don't.  Pirating is an old and established "profession".  Just check this on American Pirates in the Atlantic: On the Water - Living in the Atlantic World 1450-1800 Pirates in the Atlantic World  What religion was Edward Teach?

Do you care what religion those Atlantic pirates were?

I don't.


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## Roadrunner

pismoe said:


> and the Barbary pirates , I think that they did their piracy from their base in the 'Barbary states' which I think were Islamic sharia states Coyote .  I know that I care what the religion of the Barbary pirates was / is .


Jews owned the hulls, pirates were multicultural, the Barbary States were the refuge.


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## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
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> Jroc said:
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> guno said:
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> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
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> I think your a muslim not really an atheist at all. Certainly no Jew
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> Since when is speaking the truth un-Jewish?
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth about what? this nutjob who is *not Jewish, loves islam and slams Christians constantly.*Who cares if Jefferson had a koran really? Stupid thread and islam had absolutely nothing to do with the founding of this country so the point of thread is what again? Maybe Leftist hate Christians but love islam We even have the muslim mouthpiece from CAIR here loving the thread
Click to expand...


What is there in Judaism that says you must hate Islam?  Or must not slam Christianity? Or that there must be a lockstep opinion?  I'll say this for Delta - he's an equal opportunity slammer and supporter, I've certainly seen him slam Islam as well as support it depending on the points being made.  And that makes him NOT Jewish?  Really now.


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## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
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> Delta4Embassy said:
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> Jroc said:
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> guno said:
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> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
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> 
> I think your a muslim not really an atheist at all. Certainly no Jew
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when is speaking the truth un-Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth about what? this nutjob who is *not Jewish, loves islam and slams Christians constantly.*Who cares if Jefferson had a koran really? Stupid thread and islam had absolutely nothing to do with the founding of this country so the point of thread is what again? Maybe Leftist hate Christians but love islam We even have the muslim mouthpiece from CAIR here loving the thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is there in Judaism that says you must hate Islam?  Or must not slam Christianity? Or that there must be a lockstep opinion?  I'll say this for Delta - he's an equal opportunity slammer and supporter, I've certainly seen him slam Islam as well as support it depending on the points being made.  And that makes him NOT Jewish?  Really now.
Click to expand...



That among other things, like throwing around the word "goy" "goyum" every other sentence. He's no Jew and you are and muslim mouthpiece


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## Agit8r

Islamic scholars played a role in the Renaissance and Enlightenment.  Other than that Islam played no role in the founding of our government.  Their model for government was Greco-Roman (which happened to be pagan societies, incidentally)


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## Vigilante




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## tinydancer

Sunni Man said:


> Face it........Islam is now woven into the cultural and political fabric of our nation.   .....



They don't get it do they?  We are of the hip. One of us will cross that finished line and be right. But how can one be wrong when one has faith. Brothers to the end. Well I'm a girl but brothers no matter what.


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## ChrisL

guno said:


> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*



Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.


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## ChrisL

idb said:


> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.



I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.


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## ChrisL

Sunni Man said:


> Face it........Islam is now woven into the cultural and political fabric of our nation.   .....



No it isn't.  We are a secular nation.


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## tinydancer

Vigilante said:


>



Well who am I to preach. Vigilante faith is different than religion. One day you will understand this. I really believe you will. 

Faith is the ability to walk with Jehovah with no fear. To hold his hand like a child. To tremble in his greatness. To embrace him as your father.

He is. He is mine. He is yours.


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## Vigilante

tinydancer said:


> Vigilante said:
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> Well who am I to preach. Vigilante faith is different than religion. One day you will understand this. I really believe you will.
> 
> Faith is the ability to walk with Jehovah with no fear. To hold his hand like a child. To tremble in his greatness. To embrace him as your father.
> 
> He is. He is mine. He is yours.
Click to expand...


If you're happy with your faith, I salute you. I will stand with you on most agendas, but I will believe when I leave and someone embraces me once I am dust.


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## tinydancer

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
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> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
Click to expand...


See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here. 

It is about time we set the record straight.


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## ChrisL

tinydancer said:


> ChrisL said:
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> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
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> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
Click to expand...


I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.


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## tinydancer

Vigilante said:


> tinydancer said:
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> Well who am I to preach. Vigilante faith is different than religion. One day you will understand this. I really believe you will.
> 
> Faith is the ability to walk with Jehovah with no fear. To hold his hand like a child. To tremble in his greatness. To embrace him as your father.
> 
> He is. He is mine. He is yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you're happy with your faith, I salute you. I will stand with you on most agendas, but I will believe when I leave and someone embraces me once I am dust.
Click to expand...


Hey. I love you like a..................fill in the blank. I love you so much. You make coming in here fun. 

You really do. Faith is odd. I'm coming up to a decade of having lived thru a particular time in my life where evil reigned. Haunted house. To the point  that my husband and I ran with 4 dogs (catahoulas) and two cats in a van  to seek out a new life.

So every day is a walk a day in memory. Your pictures crack me up. You always make me laugh. 

I'm glad you are out there.


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## Vigilante

ChrisL said:


> tinydancer said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
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> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
Click to expand...


Joe is doing his best trying to emulate Muhammad!... The 9 year olds turn him down flat, so he's moved up to the mid 20's!


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## tinydancer

ChrisL said:


> tinydancer said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
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> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
Click to expand...


Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.


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## ChrisL

ChrisL said:


> tinydancer said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
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> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
Click to expand...


^^^  

I should add to this . . . it is a myth that many 12 and 13 year old girls were married off, at least in OUR culture.  

Age of Marriage in the U.S. in the 1800s The Classroom Synonym

Between 1800 and 1900, women generally married for the first time between the ages of 20 and 22. Less is known about the average age of first marriages for men during the 19th century. In 1890, when the U.S. Census Bureau started collecting marriage data, it was recorded that the average age of a first marriage for men was 26 years, and the average age of marriage for women was 22 years.


*Marriage in the Colonies*
The average age of a women who married for the first time rose steadily, although not sharply, from 1800 to 1900. North American colonists tended to get married early due to several factors. The first, and perhaps most important, was simply that they could. Many took the advice of the Bible -- to leave home and create your own family -- to heart, and they had the resources to do it. Land was inexpensive, and there was plenty of it to choose from -- it was simple to set up shop. According to a 2010 article in the "Journal of Southern History" titled "The Effect of the Civil War on Southern Marriage Patterns," early colonists married at an average age of around 20 if they were women, and around 26 if they were men.

*The Civil War*
With the end of the Civil War in 1865 came a "marriage squeeze" for women, especially in the South. About 620,000 men died in the war, which meant that pickings were slim. Many women married older widowers, or married someone not entirely appropriate -- perhaps above or below their socioeconomic status. This pattern did not last very long, however -- about 10 years -- and it did not significantly affect their average age of marriage, which hovered right around 21. For men, it did not significantly change either as many young men rushed to marriage at the start of the war.


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## tinydancer

Vigilante said:


> ChrisL said:
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> tinydancer said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
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> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Joe is doing his best trying to emulate Muhammad!... The 9 year olds turn him down flat, so he's moved up to the mid 20's!
Click to expand...


He's creeping me out man.


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## ChrisL

tinydancer said:


> ChrisL said:
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> tinydancer said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.
Click to expand...


That is a very exaggerated myth.  Most people were not getting married that young.  Most of the people who were married off that young to men that old were royalty, but they also married their sisters, brothers and cousins too.

See my post #35.


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## Vigilante

tinydancer said:


> ChrisL said:
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> tinydancer said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> idb said:
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> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.
Click to expand...


But TD, wasn't it you that OOOGLED 68 yr. old B.J. Clinton?


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## Vigilante

tinydancer said:


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> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Joe is doing his best trying to emulate Muhammad!... The 9 year olds turn him down flat, so he's moved up to the mid 20's!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's creeping me out man.
Click to expand...


He even creeps me out, but THIS is down right WRONG!!!!






Sends SHIVERS down my spine looking at that!


----------



## ChrisL

Vigilante said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Joe is doing his best trying to emulate Muhammad!... The 9 year olds turn him down flat, so he's moved up to the mid 20's!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's creeping me out man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He even creeps me out, but THIS is down right WRONG!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sends SHIVERS down my spine looking at that!
Click to expand...


Look at how uncomfortable the poor little thing looks.  If I had a daughter, there is no way that weirdo would be putting his hands and mouth all over her.  I would punch him out!  Lol.


----------



## ChrisL

Vigilante said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But TD, wasn't it you that OOOGLED 68 yr. old B.J. Clinton?
Click to expand...


Well, he used to be a kind of handsome guy, I suppose.  Not really my type, but apparently a LOT of women found him attractive.  I don't know if that is the case as of late though.


----------



## ChrisL

I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.  

Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked


----------



## Vigilante

ChrisL said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Joe is doing his best trying to emulate Muhammad!... The 9 year olds turn him down flat, so he's moved up to the mid 20's!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's creeping me out man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He even creeps me out, but THIS is down right WRONG!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sends SHIVERS down my spine looking at that!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look at how uncomfortable the poor little thing looks.  If I had a daughter, there is no way that weirdo would be putting his hands and mouth all over her.  I would punch him out!  Lol.
Click to expand...


NOW watch the mothers face....Especially AFTER he's let her go....what does that tell you?


----------



## Vigilante

ChrisL said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't that pedophile should be honored anywhere.  That's quite disturbing, IMO.  I don't think he was a very good man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But TD, wasn't it you that OOOGLED 68 yr. old B.J. Clinton?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, he used to be a kind of handsome guy, I suppose.  Not really my type, but apparently a LOT of women found him attractive.  I don't know if that is the case as of late though.
Click to expand...


Hell, he's worth hundreds of millions now.... that's why the hookers are all over him, and since his CLASS is still on the AstroTurf, in the back of his pick up truck, $100 bills do nicely!


----------



## ChrisL

Vigilante said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe is doing his best trying to emulate Muhammad!... The 9 year olds turn him down flat, so he's moved up to the mid 20's!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He's creeping me out man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He even creeps me out, but THIS is down right WRONG!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sends SHIVERS down my spine looking at that!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look at how uncomfortable the poor little thing looks.  If I had a daughter, there is no way that weirdo would be putting his hands and mouth all over her.  I would punch him out!  Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NOW watch the mothers face....Especially AFTER he's let her go....what does that tell you?
Click to expand...


It looks to me like she is saying, I'm sorry that I let that dirty old man put his hands on you for my OWN benefit, honey, because I'm afraid to confront him because then my husband might lose his good job.  Myself, I would be so pissed off . . . I'm not sure what I might do.


----------



## ChrisL

Vigilante said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> See this is the lie. It took me a while to see the truth. He wasn't a pedophile. Everyone was getting married pre teens back then. Let's get a reality check. Heck almost everyone was getting married at the age of 11 or 12. Let's get honest here.
> 
> It is about time we set the record straight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But TD, wasn't it you that OOOGLED 68 yr. old B.J. Clinton?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, he used to be a kind of handsome guy, I suppose.  Not really my type, but apparently a LOT of women found him attractive.  I don't know if that is the case as of late though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell, he's worth hundreds of millions now.... that's why the hookers are all over him, and since his CLASS is still on the AstroTurf, in the back of his pick up truck, $100 bills do nicely!
Click to expand...


Lol.  Well, what about Hilary?    I wonder what SHE does?


----------



## Vigilante

ChrisL said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not going to honor a man like that.  Sorry.  That is disgusting and disturbing.  And no, it was NOT normal for an old man to marry a child.  Most people who were married off very young were to arranged marriages, and it wasn't normally a 9 or 10-year-old child to a 50-year-old dude either.  They were usually MUCH closer in age, and the arranged marriages were usually reserved for rich people.  Super rich elite and royalty have always been super weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But TD, wasn't it you that OOOGLED 68 yr. old B.J. Clinton?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, he used to be a kind of handsome guy, I suppose.  Not really my type, but apparently a LOT of women found him attractive.  I don't know if that is the case as of late though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell, he's worth hundreds of millions now.... that's why the hookers are all over him, and since his CLASS is still on the AstroTurf, in the back of his pick up truck, $100 bills do nicely!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.  Well, what about Hilary?    I wonder what SHE does?
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure she pulls off a Bodeca impersonation!


----------



## ChrisL

Vigilante said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look whether we like it or not that was considered the norm. That's all I am trying to say. I think it's creepy as hell. Come on. Who finds a 60 year old dude hot? Ok a 50 year old. A 40 year old. No. No. I don't think them hot either. 60 is not hot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But TD, wasn't it you that OOOGLED 68 yr. old B.J. Clinton?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, he used to be a kind of handsome guy, I suppose.  Not really my type, but apparently a LOT of women found him attractive.  I don't know if that is the case as of late though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell, he's worth hundreds of millions now.... that's why the hookers are all over him, and since his CLASS is still on the AstroTurf, in the back of his pick up truck, $100 bills do nicely!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.  Well, what about Hilary?    I wonder what SHE does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure she pulls off a Bodeca impersonation!
Click to expand...


Lol!  Well, let's not rule out that she might be envious of the other woman's breasts.  Maybe she's saying, "thank GOD my husband or Joe Biden aren't around!"


----------



## Vigilante

ChrisL said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> But TD, wasn't it you that OOOGLED 68 yr. old B.J. Clinton?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he used to be a kind of handsome guy, I suppose.  Not really my type, but apparently a LOT of women found him attractive.  I don't know if that is the case as of late though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hell, he's worth hundreds of millions now.... that's why the hookers are all over him, and since his CLASS is still on the AstroTurf, in the back of his pick up truck, $100 bills do nicely!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.  Well, what about Hilary?    I wonder what SHE does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure she pulls off a Bodeca impersonation!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol!  Well, let's not rule out that she might be envious of the other woman's breasts.  Maybe she's saying, "thank GOD my husband or Joe Biden aren't around!"
Click to expand...


Apparently NOTHING deters JOE when he smells ESTROGEN!


----------



## ChrisL

Vigilante said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he used to be a kind of handsome guy, I suppose.  Not really my type, but apparently a LOT of women found him attractive.  I don't know if that is the case as of late though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, he's worth hundreds of millions now.... that's why the hookers are all over him, and since his CLASS is still on the AstroTurf, in the back of his pick up truck, $100 bills do nicely!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol.  Well, what about Hilary?    I wonder what SHE does?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure she pulls off a Bodeca impersonation!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol!  Well, let's not rule out that she might be envious of the other woman's breasts.  Maybe she's saying, "thank GOD my husband or Joe Biden aren't around!"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently NOTHING deters JOE when he smells ESTROGEN!
Click to expand...


ROFL.  Did you notice the picture in the background?  Ha-ha!  That's hilarious!


----------



## Yarddog

guno said:


> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*




Did you imagine that he imagined that?   He also studied Latin at a very young age, so maybe he imagined we should be Roman Catholic. Truth is he had a very extensive education, and had a great appreciation of different things,  but how much did Islam contribute to the founding of our country?

military - Is there evidence Muslim soldiers fought in the Continental Army - History Stack Exchange


----------



## DigitalDrifter

Vigilante said:


> Yes, Islam was included by our Founding Fathers, BUT the CIA had a COVER UP going and NO ONE has tried a Freedom of Information Act about it!... Proof of Islam at the Founding!!!!



Obama claiming Islam is "woven" into the fabric of America from the founding, has got to be one of the top ten all time most ridiculous statements coming from a president.


----------



## Sunni Man

ChrisL said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Face it........Islam is now woven into the cultural and political fabric of our nation.   .....
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.  We are a secular nation.
Click to expand...

True that we are a secular nation.

But also Christianity and Judaism are woven into our nations cultural and political fabric.   .....


----------



## Jroc

ChrisL said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.
Click to expand...



Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats


----------



## ChrisL

Sunni Man said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Face it........Islam is now woven into the cultural and political fabric of our nation.   .....
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.  We are a secular nation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True that we are a secular nation.
> 
> But also Christianity and Judaism are woven into our nations cultural and political fabric.   .....
Click to expand...


Face facts.  Islam would never be accepted here in America.  We are too smart and educated.    Not to mention, we are a country of infidels.  Lol.


----------



## pismoe

thankfully the actual numbers of troublemakers is still quite low in the USA .  Still less than a couple of percent and they are mostly located in big cities like Dearbornistan and Minneapolis Little Somalia , Islamberg N.Y. , los angeles .  Much , much worse in Europe and England .   Just a comment !!


----------



## pismoe

yep , I remember when the push for muslims in the USA began , it was in the early 70s . They , whoever they are started with supposedly innocent things like putting dates of muslim holidays on some small circulation neighborhood calanders and things like that .  Now we have , maybe 4 million .


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think your a muslim not really an atheist at all. Certainly no Jew
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since when is speaking the truth un-Jewish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Truth about what? this nutjob who is *not Jewish, loves islam and slams Christians constantly.*Who cares if Jefferson had a koran really? Stupid thread and islam had absolutely nothing to do with the founding of this country so the point of thread is what again? Maybe Leftist hate Christians but love islam We even have the muslim mouthpiece from CAIR here loving the thread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is there in Judaism that says you must hate Islam?  Or must not slam Christianity? Or that there must be a lockstep opinion?  I'll say this for Delta - he's an equal opportunity slammer and supporter, I've certainly seen him slam Islam as well as support it depending on the points being made.  And that makes him NOT Jewish?  Really now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That among other things, like throwing around the word "goy" "goyum" every other sentence. He's no Jew and you are and muslim mouthpiece
Click to expand...


You've lot all credibility, not that you had any to begin with.  I can't find any post where he threw around "goyum" and one where the term "goy" was used.


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> yep , I remember when the push for muslims in the USA began , it was in the early 70s . They , whoever they are started with supposedly innocent things like putting dates of muslim holidays on some small circulation neighborhood calanders and things like that .  Now we have , maybe 4 million .



What exactly is so horrific about that?


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked




And another Myth:  
Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check


----------



## Coyote

DigitalDrifter said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Islam was included by our Founding Fathers, BUT the CIA had a COVER UP going and NO ONE has tried a Freedom of Information Act about it!... Proof of Islam at the Founding!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama claiming Islam is "woven" into the fabric of America from the founding, has got to be one of the top ten all time most ridiculous statements coming from a president.
Click to expand...


If you read the OP....how Islam was a test case for the idea of religious pluralism in our country, and was hotly debated - then yes, it was woven into the fabric of America from it's founding.  Not actual Islamic culture but the acceptance of Islam as a religion, that also paved the way for inclusion of Judaism and Catholocism's acceptance because though they were controversial to Protastants, they were less so than Islam.   Islam forced us to think and decide what religious pluralism meant and to incorporate it into our Constitutional protections.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
Click to expand...


Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him. 

"It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

    “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

    “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam*. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats
Click to expand...



Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Fact that modern Muslim lawmakers and imams reference ages 6 and 9 in their justifications of such marriages today bears out her age.


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam*. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
Click to expand...



Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?


----------



## Coyote

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
Click to expand...



Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage 

Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".  

The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.


----------



## Coyote

Delta4Embassy said:


> Fact that modern Muslim lawmakers and imams reference ages 6 and 9 in their justifications of such marriages today bears out her age.



Not necessarily - it means that there are number of imams who believe it.  That doesn't mean it's evidence-based, though in the end it doesn't matter because those lawmakers believe it and rule on it.  There is a significant move to in the Islamic world to change that and enforce minimum ages but it's difficult.  The  move comes from educated more urban districts, but it is difficult to enforce or not enforced in rural, "redneck" regions where the practice of child marriages and forced marriages are more prevalent.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Coyote said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage
> 
> Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".
> 
> The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.
Click to expand...


Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam*. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
Click to expand...


Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Coyote said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact that modern Muslim lawmakers and imams reference ages 6 and 9 in their justifications of such marriages today bears out her age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily - it means that there are number of imams who believe it.  That doesn't mean it's evidence-based, though in the end it doesn't matter because those lawmakers believe it and rule on it.  There is a significant move to in the Islamic world to change that and enforce minimum ages but it's difficult.  The  move comes from educated more urban districts, but it is difficult to enforce or not enforced in rural, "redneck" regions where the practice of child marriages and forced marriages are more prevalent.
Click to expand...


What religious texts say, and what religious people say later on are often very different things as we see with Christian depictions of God being some kind of warm and fuzzy Carebear despite half the Bible suggesting otherwise. That modern Muslims might try to cast doubt on her age I'd think is more about how many non-Muslims can now read for themselves a Qur'an or Hadiths in English and being embarassed by such things.


----------



## Coyote

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage
> 
> Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".
> 
> The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.
Click to expand...


  wise man 

I do think though, that the lack of minimum age enforcements for marriage allows free reign for pedophiles.  It's actually not just in Islamic countries, but places like Haiti and areas of South America, and Africa.  A complicated problem to solve and a sad one because the lives for those girls is often brutal.


----------



## pismoe

I don't like their culture and what I've seen of their religion and many of its practices Coyote [see iran] .   As far as getting along with a minority of muslims , well , I have no problem with muslims who mind their own business . I once rented to a family from Pakistan or similar .  They were hardworking , clean and paid their rent on time .   Problems start though when the minority starts to grow and agitaters like 'cair' organizes the 'imported' muslim population .


----------



## Coyote

I have no problem with any religious or ethnic groups  here as long as they follow our laws. We're a country based on freedom and pluralism, and it's been our strength.   People are people and there is good and evil in all of them.


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam*. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
Click to expand...



American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal

Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?


----------



## irosie91

Coyote said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage
> 
> Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".
> 
> The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.
Click to expand...


wrong----the Koran is PERFECT -----never altered------sheeeeesh   coyote---
you are either doing the  "lie for islam"  thing or you never read the Koran and
never talked to a muslim


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> DigitalDrifter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Islam was included by our Founding Fathers, BUT the CIA had a COVER UP going and NO ONE has tried a Freedom of Information Act about it!... Proof of Islam at the Founding!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama claiming Islam is "woven" into the fabric of America from the founding, has got to be one of the top ten all time most ridiculous statements coming from a president.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you read the OP....how Islam was a test case for the idea of religious pluralism in our country, and was hotly debated - then yes, it was woven into the fabric of America from it's founding.  Not actual Islamic culture but the acceptance of Islam as a religion, that also paved the way for inclusion of Judaism and Catholocism's acceptance because though they were controversial to Protastants, they were less so than Islam.   Islam forced us to think and decide what religious pluralism meant and to incorporate it into our Constitutional protections.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I know it offends you, but I will never accept Islam as a true religion.


----------



## ChrisL

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage
> 
> Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".
> 
> The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.
Click to expand...


I disagree.  A man who would have sex with a child is most definitely a pedophile.


----------



## ChrisL

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage
> 
> Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".
> 
> The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.
Click to expand...


To be able to get an erection for a 9-year-old CHILD and carry through with having sex with her is the epitome of pedophilia.


----------



## Jroc

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage
> 
> Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".
> 
> The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wrong----the Koran is PERFECT -----never altered------sheeeeesh   coyote---
> you are either doing the  "lie for islam"  thing or you never read the Koran and
> never talked to a muslim
Click to expand...



It's the former not the latter


----------



## pismoe

they don't just follow the laws Coyote , they try to change the laws !!   So then the USA ends up with politicians that pander to these special interest groups that base their existence on their religion .  Might be different if they came in naturally , obeyed the existing laws and mixed into the American population .


----------



## pismoe

only based on diversity these last 40 years or so Coyote .  The change came in the 60s under 'lbj' as he and 'kennedy' , dems pushed for diversity .


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## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Too bad they can't seem to get along with anyone.
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> *Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam*. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
Click to expand...



Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._

You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
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> *Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam*. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
Click to expand...


You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.


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## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
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> *Oh they get along fine as long as everyone is subjugated to the supremacy of islam*. Liberals are the same way they'd like everyone to be subjugated to the will and the supremacy of big government and the oligarchical politicians and bureaucrats
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
Click to expand...



So you don't agree with Zuhdi  Jasser is that what you're saying? You are familiar with the methods of the muslim brotherhood, i know because you use them


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## Delta4Embassy

Wasn't there a thing in Current Events about some US states wanting to declare themselves a Christian state or something like that? But it's Muslims trying to take over the country? Mmkay.


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## Jroc

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
Click to expand...

She plays her role well. It took awhile for me to  figure her out. Good person? Someone who continually defends islamonazis? I'd have to disagree with that opinion.


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## Jroc

Delta4Embassy said:


> Wasn't there a thing in Current Events about some US states wanting to declare themselves a Christian state or something like that? But it's Muslims trying to take over the country? Mmkay.




In case you hadn't heard Christians already run the country


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> they don't just follow the laws Coyote , they try to change the laws !!   So then the USA ends up with politicians that pander to these special interest groups that base their existence on their religion .  Might be different if they came in naturally , obeyed the existing laws and mixed into the American population .




Many religious groups here try to change the laws.  What specific laws are being changed that make it problematic and unique?

As far as I know, they came in naturally, obey existing laws and mix into the American population like any other immigrant group (those who are immigrants) and then there are many who have been here for generations many Americans.


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## Coyote

Delta4Embassy said:


> Wasn't there a thing in Current Events about some US states wanting to declare themselves a Christian state or something like that? But it's Muslims trying to take over the country? Mmkay.


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
Click to expand...


I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.


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## ChrisL

Jroc said:


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> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She plays her role well. It took awhile for me to  figure her out. Good person? Someone who continually defends islamonazis? I'd have to disagree with that opinion.
Click to expand...


I've had conversations with her elsewhere on the forum, and she seems very nice and genuine to me.    Of course, I don't know much about her, but that is the vibe I get from her.  I think she is trying to be open minded and to not be the dreaded "bigot."  Lol.  Myself, I don't care if people might think I'm a bigot.  I'm going to call it as I see it regardless of what people think.


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## Coyote

Jroc said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She plays her role well. It took awhile for me to  figure her out. Good person? Someone who continually defends islamonazis? I'd have to disagree with that opinion.
Click to expand...


I don't anticipate an honest answer from you but what the hell.

Islamonazi is one of those made up words.  So, I'm guessing it means Islamic extremists.  Where have I ever defended those?  Link?


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> 
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> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.
Click to expand...


Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Jroc said:
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> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She plays her role well. It took awhile for me to  figure her out. Good person? Someone who continually defends islamonazis? I'd have to disagree with that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've had conversations with her elsewhere on the forum, and she seems very nice and genuine to me.    Of course, I don't know much about her, but that is the vibe I get from her.  I think she is trying to be open minded and to not be the dreaded "bigot."  Lol.  Myself, I don't care if people might think I'm a bigot.  I'm going to call it as I see it regardless of what people think.
Click to expand...


Thanks 

We may disagree, but that is what debate is for.  You rock!


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## Jroc

ChrisL said:


> Jroc said:
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> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She plays her role well. It took awhile for me to  figure her out. Good person? Someone who continually defends islamonazis? I'd have to disagree with that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've had conversations with her elsewhere on the forum, and she seems very nice and genuine to me.    Of course, I don't know much about her, but that is the vibe I get from her.  I think she is trying to be open minded and to not be the dreaded "bigot."  Lol.  Myself, I don't care if people might think I'm a bigot.  I'm going to call it as I see it regardless of what people think.
Click to expand...

I've heard she goes to multiple forums pushing her pro-muslim agenda it's not only here.


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## pismoe

and WHY would I or others like me SUPPORT changing the laws from what I / we have always known Coyote ??


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## ChrisL

Jroc said:


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> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She plays her role well. It took awhile for me to  figure her out. Good person? Someone who continually defends islamonazis? I'd have to disagree with that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've had conversations with her elsewhere on the forum, and she seems very nice and genuine to me.    Of course, I don't know much about her, but that is the vibe I get from her.  I think she is trying to be open minded and to not be the dreaded "bigot."  Lol.  Myself, I don't care if people might think I'm a bigot.  I'm going to call it as I see it regardless of what people think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard she goes to multiple forums pushing her pro-muslim agenda it's not only here.
Click to expand...


Well, I like to judge (for lack of a better word - I hate that word - LOL) on my own experiences with a person.


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## Willing Sniper




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## irosie91

ChrisL said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Hadith's, her age is controversial - not surprising given the passage of time, poor recording of birth information and the fact that the Hadith's were written after his death: What was Ayesha s ra Age at the Time of Her Marriage
> 
> Either way though - girls married young, child marriages - contracted even in infancy since marriage was largely a political affair - were the norm and life expectancies were shorter.  It doesn't make him a "pedophile".
> 
> The unfortunate part of it is that there are those today who will then use it to justify modern child marriages or pedophilia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mohammed was not a clinical pedophile. Have wanted to say that but thought better of getting into another what is a pedophile discussion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be able to get an erection for a 9-year-old CHILD and carry through with having sex with her is the epitome of pedophilia.
Click to expand...


I don't know how a grown man has the heart to do that to a nine
year old child.     What excites him does not bother me as much
as what hurts her.


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


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> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.
Click to expand...


Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.   

Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan, 

Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.

If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent - within the last century or less?

 That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.


----------



## pismoe

just a little example Coyote , course it'd be less of a problem if all 'impoted people' just followed the rules , laws , tradition that have existed in the USA .  ---  http://7online.com/religion/former-employee-suing-costco-for-religious-discrimination-/532866/ ---  just a little problem at the moment but the problems will get bigger as more diverse population are imported into the USA .


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really now? I'm not seeing much support for that hear.  In fact, there seems to be far more movement towards the supremacy of Christianity with silly GOP'ers proclaiming it a state and/or national religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't agree with Zuhdi  Jasser is that what you're saying? You are familiar with the methods of the muslim brotherhood, i know because you use them
Click to expand...

 
 I didn't bother to watch your video because you are simply trying to deflect from answering a question.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.
> 
> Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan,
> 
> Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.
> 
> If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent - within the last century or less?
> 
> That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.
Click to expand...


They have been fighting amongst themselves for centuries.  Also, the problems seem to arise when there is a larger number of them.  There have been problems everywhere there is a larger percentage of them.


----------



## pismoe

main victims , he11 , quite often muslims are the perpetrators of the cimes that they report as hate crimes .   When muslims cause trouble in western countries it is because they have been imported .  Why import more trouble when we should just deal with trouble made by indigenous population Coyote ??


----------



## idb

Delta4Embassy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
Click to expand...




> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."


The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> just a little example Coyote , course it'd be less of a problem if all 'impoted people' just followed the rules , laws , tradition that have existed in the USA .  ---  http://7online.com/religion/former-employee-suing-costco-for-religious-discrimination-/532866/ ---  just a little problem at the moment but the problems will get bigger as more diverse population are imported into the USA .



Thank you for at least providing an example.

First of all - do people have a right to sue for religious discrimmination?  It doesn't mean their case has merit or that they'll win but it's their right and it's one way of resolving disputes (as oppposed to going postal and shooting the place up).

Food Lion Sued by EEOC for Religious Discrimination
Kentucky Fried Chicken Franchise Pays 40 000 to Settle EEOC Religious Discrimination Lawsuit
N.C. Dunkin Donuts bakery sued for religious discrimination
Taco Bell Pays 27 000 To Settle Religious Discrimination Lawsuit

Here are some more, similar cases of lawsuits filed for religious discrimmination.  Should these people just "follow the rules, laws, tradition that have existed in the USA"?


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> main victims , he11 , quite often muslims are the perpetrators of the cimes that they report as hate crimes .



Quite often?  Really?  You showed me one case I think.  



> When muslims cause trouble in western countries it is because they have been imported .  Why import more trouble when we should just deal with trouble made by indigenous population Coyote ??



Look at death tolls in religious conflicts around the world.  Muslims rank highest.


----------



## Willing Sniper

*Treaty of Tripoli*
Art. 11. As the Government of _*the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion*_; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


----------



## pismoe

I've shown many cases in many different threads Coyote , other posters do the same .  I'm think that you have been at best a supporters of diversity while I am not .


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> they don't just follow the laws Coyote , they try to change the laws !!   So then the USA ends up with politicians that pander to these special interest groups that base their existence on their religion .  Might be different if they came in naturally , obeyed the existing laws and mixed into the American population .


How is that any different to any other special interest lobby group?


----------



## pismoe

well , if the war fighting is between muslims and Israelis then that's a good thing to know Coyote .


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> I've shown many cases in many different threads Coyote , other posters do the same .  I'm think that you have been at best a supporters of diversity while I am not .



You are the only one I recall showing cases of an anti-Muslim hate crime that was faked and I seem to recall it was only one or two examples.  I suspect we can also find examples of racist hate crimes faked (Tawana Brawley) or anti-semitic hate crimes faked.  There are always such individuals.  But where are the "many"?


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
Click to expand...


What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.  

Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info


----------



## SAYIT

ChrisL said:


> I've had conversations with her elsewhere on the forum, and she seems very nice and genuine to me.    Of course, I don't know much about her, but that is the vibe I get from her.  I think she is trying to be open minded and to not be the dreaded "bigot."  Lol.  Myself, I don't care if people might think I'm a bigot.  I'm going to call it as I see it regardless of what people think.



Yeah ... she and I are on opposite sides of the Arab/Israeli issue but I don't find her to be mendacious, hateful, bigoted, willfully ignorant or stupid. Those characteristics alone set her apart from most of the anti-Israel/anti-Jew cabal here.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
Click to expand...


I really don't think you can judge historical events - especially ancient history - with modern ethics.  Ethics evolve.  Ages for marriage and child bearing were quite young a thousand years ago, all over the world.  It was the way it was.  Other horrific things - torture, child labor, slavery, all things we abhor today were the norm.  

What matters is what is happening now and movements to set and enforce rights for children, especially girls and minimum ages of marriage are what should be supported.  It doesn't do any good to wage war on ancient history and doing it, without the historical content alienates the very people who's culture you're trying to change.  Just my opinion.


----------



## pismoe

its obvious the Europe and England are importing large numbers of muslims 'ibd' Stop the importation and deal with indigenous criminals .  Pretty obvious 'ibd' , or don't stop the problem .   Its apparent that Europe and England have bigger problems than the USA at least for the next generation or so .  Americans like me will watch what happens to the 'euros' , English , swedes , finns , chechneyans , Chinese and their weegars , etc , etc .


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
Click to expand...


Do any religions have set marriage ages?  I always figured that comes from the governments.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I really don't think you can judge historical events - especially ancient history - with modern ethics.  Ethics evolve.  Ages for marriage and child bearing were quite young a thousand years ago, all over the world.  It was the way it was.  Other horrific things - torture, child labor, slavery, all things we abhor today were the norm.
> 
> What matters is what is happening now and movements to set and enforce rights for children, especially girls and minimum ages of marriage are what should be supported.  It doesn't do any good to wage war on ancient history and doing it, without the historical content alienates the very people who's culture you're trying to change.  Just my opinion.
Click to expand...


They still marry off children today.  Women are not considered human beings either, and they certainly aren't treated like human beings.  

Child marriage in Islam is subject to the condition that it serve a clear and real interest - islamqa.info


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
Click to expand...

Did you read it?
It's questioning whether she was actually that young?

I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
Does The Bible specify an age?


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do any religions have set marriage ages?  I always figured that comes from the governments.
Click to expand...


Yes they do.  Islam does.  Islam is not just a religion, it is a sociopolitical belief system.


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
Click to expand...


You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
Click to expand...

Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
Indonesia.

By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
> Indonesia.
> 
> By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
> Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.
Click to expand...


Post links please.


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're saying about Islam here?
Are you suggesting that Muslims can't exist in a secular society?


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
> Indonesia.
> 
> By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
> Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post links please.
Click to expand...

I'm disappointed you wouldn't just believe me!


> Both foreigner and Indonesian must meet the following requirements and produce the following documents:
> 
> 
> If female, be 16 years or older; if male, be 19 years or older


Legal Requirements for Marriage in Indonesia Indonesia


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> its obvious the Europe and England are importing large numbers of muslims 'ibd' Stop the importation and deal with indigenous criminals .  Pretty obvious 'ibd' , or don't Europe and England have bigger problems than the USA at least for the next generation or so .  Americans like me will watch what happens to the 'euros' , English , swedes , finns , chechneyans , Chinese and their weegars , etc , etc .



The Chechnyans weren't imported.  In fact, they have a long history in that region.  They were brutally treated by the Soviets and many were forceably transplanted to Siberia during Stalins massive and punative population transfers.  During the Ukraine famine, they took in thousands of starving Ukrainians, and provided food and shelter despite threats from the Soviet Regime.  Their fight against the Soviets and now the Russian Federation is certainly understandable.

The Chinese Uyghurs have similar ancient history.  They were conquored by the Chinese, much like the Tibetans and like the Tibetans the Chinese attempted to erradicate their culture and religion.

Neither of those are "imported" and many of the issues involving them are related to attempts to regain autonomy, retain their culture and language.  What is wrong with that?


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do any religions have set marriage ages?  I always figured that comes from the governments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes they do.*  Islam does.  Islam is not just a religion, it is a sociopolitical belief system.
Click to expand...


Where?


----------



## Uncensored2008

guno said:


> *Thomas Jefferson didn't just own a Quran -- he engaged with Islam and fought to ensure the rights of Muslims
> 
> 
> At a time when most Americans were uninformed, misinformed, or simply afraid of Islam, Thomas Jefferson imagined Muslims as future citizens of his new nation. His engagement with the faith began with the purchase of a Qur’an eleven years before he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson’s Qur’an survives still in the Library of Congress, serving as a symbol of his and early America’s complex relationship with Islam and its adherents. That relationship remains of signal importance to this day.*
> 
> *Our Founding Fathers included Islam - Salon.com*



Of course Batshit, he loved you so much he hung your scummy asses from the yard arm of the USS Philadelphia.

Retard

The Thomas Jefferson Papers - America and the Barbary Pirates - American Memory from the Library of Congress


----------



## pismoe

right about the chechens , probably the same thing with the troublemaking Chinese weegars [sp] . Course the one thing they have in common is 'islam' .


----------



## Uncensored2008

idb said:


> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.



All by itself Comrade?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Roadrunner said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Face it........Islam is now woven into the cultural and political fabric of our nation.   .....
> 
> 
> 
> So is HIV.
Click to expand...


Of course HIV has a more positive impact on the lives of Americans than does Islam.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Coyote said:


> That's a fascinating article - I had no idea...thanks for posting that



It's Salon, so guaranteed to contain 9% fact!


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do any religions have set marriage ages?  I always figured that comes from the governments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes they do.*  Islam does.  Islam is not just a religion, it is a sociopolitical belief system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where?
Click to expand...


What do you mean where?  According to Islamic law, girls can be married as soon as they menstruate.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Underage is a relative term. Hadiths though specify her age of 6 when married, 9 at consumation and moving in with him.
> 
> "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.
> 
> “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”
> 
> “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” "
> Age of Aisha ra at time of marriage
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.
> 
> They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
> ......
> In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.
> .....
> The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
Click to expand...


Yes, we are a secular nation (thank God!) - jk 

An interesting look at minimum ages for marriage: Minimum Legal Age to Marry - Women
It's actually a bit surprising.


----------



## idb

Uncensored2008 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Supreme Court has an image of Muhammed on its wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All by itself Comrade?
Click to expand...

No.
Of course, you could have looked that up yourself.


----------



## Uncensored2008

idb said:


> No.
> Of course, you could have looked that up yourself.



No need, I knew you were lying - which is why I pointed it out.

The Supreme Court has a mural with historical figures, Muhammad is one of over a dozen figures repented.







Where's Waldo?


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
> Indonesia.
> 
> By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
> Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post links please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm disappointed you wouldn't just believe me!
> 
> 
> 
> Both foreigner and Indonesian must meet the following requirements and produce the following documents:
> 
> 
> If female, be 16 years or older; if male, be 19 years or older
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Legal Requirements for Marriage in Indonesia Indonesia
Click to expand...


You made several claims in your post, including that children under 16 years old can marry in some states in the US.  You should link to that too.  I don't believe there are any states that allow marriage under the age of 16, and if you were to delve in and read the actual laws, you would see that there are qualifications that must be met even for a 16 year old to marry.


----------



## idb

Uncensored2008 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> Of course, you could have looked that up yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need, I knew you were lying - which is why I pointed it out.
> 
> The Supreme Court has a mural with historical figures, Muhammad is one of over a dozen figures repented.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's Waldo?
Click to expand...

What was I lying about?


----------



## Uncensored2008

idb said:


> What was I lying about?



That the Supreme Court has portrait of Muhammad on it's wall. It has a mural of the law givers. I understand, Obama has moved the left into the arms of Islam - you are lying for the party, party above all, Obama Akbar.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth about Muhammad and Aisha Myriam Fran ois-Cerrah Comment is free The Guardian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a crock.  Excusing pedophilia.  There are all kinds of human rights violations that are known where Muslims sell their young daughters and/or marry them off at a very young age for the dowry.
> 
> Is there a set age for marriage in Islam - islamqa.info
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do any religions have set marriage ages?  I always figured that comes from the governments.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Yes they do.*  Islam does.  Islam is not just a religion, it is a sociopolitical belief system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean where?  According to Islamic law, girls can be married as soon as they menstruate.
Click to expand...


Which is different from other religions how?

According to the Talmud: The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times.  Which correlates roughly to puberty.

The Bible has no specific commands regarding minimum ages though child marriages abound.


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read it?
> It's questioning whether she was actually that young?
> 
> I have a question...is there a set age for marriage in Christianity?
> Does The Bible specify an age?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
> Indonesia.
> 
> By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
> Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post links please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm disappointed you wouldn't just believe me!
> 
> 
> 
> Both foreigner and Indonesian must meet the following requirements and produce the following documents:
> 
> 
> If female, be 16 years or older; if male, be 19 years or older
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Legal Requirements for Marriage in Indonesia Indonesia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made several claims in your post, including that children under 16 years old can marry in some states in the US.  You should link to that too.  I don't believe there are any states that allow marriage under the age of 16, and if you were to delve in and read the actual laws, you would see that there are qualifications that must be met even for a 16 year old to marry.
Click to expand...

Oh, you want links to US laws?!


> *Arizona*
> 
> 
> If you are 16 or 17 years old, you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian. If you are under sixteen (16), you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian as well as a court order.
> *Colorado*
> 
> 
> If you are sixteen (16) or seventeen (17), you need consent of both parents (or parent having legal custody), or guardian, or seek judicial approval. If you are under sixteen (16), a Judicial Court Order along with parental consent is necessary.
> *Connecticut*
> 
> 
> If under sixteen (16) years of age, a written consent of the judge of probate for the district where the minor teen resides must be obtained. Written parental consent is needed if under eighteen (18) years of age.
> *Florida*
> 
> 
> If a teen is under eighteen (18) years of age, but older than sixteen (16) years of age, a marriage license can be obtained with parental consent. If a parent has sole custody or the other parent is dead, the permission of one parent is sufficient. If a person is under the age of 16, the marriage license has to be issued by a county judge, with or without parental permission.
> *Kentucky*
> 
> If you are under 16, you must get approval to marry from the District Court. Minors cannot get married in Kentucky if parents or guardians are not residents of Kentucky.


Teen Marriage License Laws Minors Requirements by State
I'm not going to go through them all.


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are dishonest.  I can tell already.  It is against the law in the US to marry a child.  We are a secular nation.  Islam is a complete socioeconomic system.  It is not just a religion, it is a way of life.  Wake up!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
> Indonesia.
> 
> By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
> Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Post links please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm disappointed you wouldn't just believe me!
> 
> 
> 
> Both foreigner and Indonesian must meet the following requirements and produce the following documents:
> 
> 
> If female, be 16 years or older; if male, be 19 years or older
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Legal Requirements for Marriage in Indonesia Indonesia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made several claims in your post, including that children under 16 years old can marry in some states in the US.  You should link to that too.  I don't believe there are any states that allow marriage under the age of 16, and if you were to delve in and read the actual laws, you would see that there are qualifications that must be met even for a 16 year old to marry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you want links to US laws?!
> 
> 
> 
> *Arizona*
> 
> 
> If you are 16 or 17 years old, you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian. If you are under sixteen (16), you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian as well as a court order.
> *Colorado*
> 
> 
> If you are sixteen (16) or seventeen (17), you need consent of both parents (or parent having legal custody), or guardian, or seek judicial approval. If you are under sixteen (16), a Judicial Court Order along with parental consent is necessary.
> *Connecticut*
> 
> 
> If under sixteen (16) years of age, a written consent of the judge of probate for the district where the minor teen resides must be obtained. Written parental consent is needed if under eighteen (18) years of age.
> *Florida*
> 
> 
> If a teen is under eighteen (18) years of age, but older than sixteen (16) years of age, a marriage license can be obtained with parental consent. If a parent has sole custody or the other parent is dead, the permission of one parent is sufficient. If a person is under the age of 16, the marriage license has to be issued by a county judge, with or without parental permission.
> *Kentucky*
> 
> If you are under 16, you must get approval to marry from the District Court. Minors cannot get married in Kentucky if parents or guardians are not residents of Kentucky.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Teen Marriage License Laws Minors Requirements by State
> I'm not going to go through them all.
Click to expand...


Yes, they need a parent's permission, as well as that of a judge.  Do you know the kind of extenuating circumstances where they would actually ALLOW that to happen?  Lol.  It's extremely rare.  Parents in the United States don't sell their daughters for a dowry.   

I think you know there is no comparison to the United States with Islam and their child bride issues.  You are being silly and not fooling anyone.


----------



## idb

Uncensored2008 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was I lying about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That the Supreme Court has portrait of Muhammad on it's wall. It has a mural of the law givers. I understand, Obama has moved the left into the arms of Islam - you are lying for the party, party above all, Obama Akbar.
Click to expand...

I find it hard to believe that you enjoy being shown to be an idiot as much as you do.
This isn't secret information you know.


> In the Supreme Court's white marble courtroom, the nine sitting justices are not the only presiding presence. At the center of the nation's legal system, high above the justices' mahogany bench, the great lawgivers of history are depicted in marble friezes....
> The 18 lawgivers looking down on the justices are divided into two friezes of ivory-colored, Spanish marble. On the south wall, to the right of incoming visitors, are figures from the pre-Christian era -- Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius and Octavian (Caesar Augustus). On the north wall to the left are lawmakers of the Christian era -- Napoleon Bonaparte, Marshall, William Blackstone, Hugo Grotius, Louis IX, King John, Charlemagne, Muhammad and Justinian.


Supreme Court Freize

Now, of course, you're welcome to proceed with your attack on the liberal mouthpiece The Daily Republican.


----------



## ChrisL

Muslim clerics resist Pakistan s efforts to end child marriage - The Washington Post

“It’s time that we stand up for our women,” said Marvi Memon, a lawmaker and a sponsor of the bill. “I have seen child rights violated in my constituency and around the country — in every single province.”

Still, Memon and other bill supporters are facing stiff resistance from opponents to the bill, such as the Council of Islamic Ideology, a body charged with advising the government on Islamic law.

In March, the council ruled that laws related to the minimum age of marriage were against the teachings of the Quran and that children of any age could get married if they had reached puberty. They argue that the Prophet Muhammad took underage wives.

“Parliament should not legislate laws which are against the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah,” said Maulana Muhammad Khan Shirani, the council’s chairman, referring to the Muslim holy book and oral traditions of the Prophet Muhammad.


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
> Indonesia.
> 
> By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
> Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post links please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm disappointed you wouldn't just believe me!
> 
> 
> 
> Both foreigner and Indonesian must meet the following requirements and produce the following documents:
> 
> 
> If female, be 16 years or older; if male, be 19 years or older
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Legal Requirements for Marriage in Indonesia Indonesia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made several claims in your post, including that children under 16 years old can marry in some states in the US.  You should link to that too.  I don't believe there are any states that allow marriage under the age of 16, and if you were to delve in and read the actual laws, you would see that there are qualifications that must be met even for a 16 year old to marry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you want links to US laws?!
> 
> 
> 
> *Arizona*
> 
> 
> If you are 16 or 17 years old, you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian. If you are under sixteen (16), you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian as well as a court order.
> *Colorado*
> 
> 
> If you are sixteen (16) or seventeen (17), you need consent of both parents (or parent having legal custody), or guardian, or seek judicial approval. If you are under sixteen (16), a Judicial Court Order along with parental consent is necessary.
> *Connecticut*
> 
> 
> If under sixteen (16) years of age, a written consent of the judge of probate for the district where the minor teen resides must be obtained. Written parental consent is needed if under eighteen (18) years of age.
> *Florida*
> 
> 
> If a teen is under eighteen (18) years of age, but older than sixteen (16) years of age, a marriage license can be obtained with parental consent. If a parent has sole custody or the other parent is dead, the permission of one parent is sufficient. If a person is under the age of 16, the marriage license has to be issued by a county judge, with or without parental permission.
> *Kentucky*
> 
> If you are under 16, you must get approval to marry from the District Court. Minors cannot get married in Kentucky if parents or guardians are not residents of Kentucky.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Teen Marriage License Laws Minors Requirements by State
> I'm not going to go through them all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they need a parent's permission, as well as that of a judge.  Do you know the kind of extenuating circumstances where they would actually ALLOW that to happen?  Lol.  It's extremely rare.  Parents in the United States don't sell their daughters for a dowry.
> 
> I think you know there is no comparison to the United States with Islam and their child bride issues.  You are being silly and not fooling anyone.
Click to expand...

Does Indonesia allow marriage under 16 at ANY age?
Many US states do.

The point of my post was that you are wrong in your implication that Muslim countries, by virtue of being Muslim and because Islam operates as a 'complete socio-economic system', allow child marriage.


----------



## TAE

Islam is not compatible with western culture


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> Muslim clerics resist Pakistan s efforts to end child marriage - The Washington Post
> 
> “It’s time that we stand up for our women,” said Marvi Memon, a lawmaker and a sponsor of the bill. “I have seen child rights violated in my constituency and around the country — in every single province.”
> 
> Still, Memon and other bill supporters are facing stiff resistance from opponents to the bill, such as the Council of Islamic Ideology, a body charged with advising the government on Islamic law.
> 
> In March, the council ruled that laws related to the minimum age of marriage were against the teachings of the Quran and that children of any age could get married if they had reached puberty. They argue that the Prophet Muhammad took underage wives.
> 
> “Parliament should not legislate laws which are against the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah,” said Maulana Muhammad Khan Shirani, the council’s chairman, referring to the Muslim holy book and oral traditions of the Prophet Muhammad.


Do you want to start citing religious extremists to support your argument?
Really?
Answer me this then.
In your example, why would a Muslim-dominated country like Pakistan even be trying to end child marriages?
After all, according to you, *all* Muslims accept child marriages.


----------



## Uncensored2008

idb said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was I lying about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That the Supreme Court has portrait of Muhammad on it's wall. It has a mural of the law givers. I understand, Obama has moved the left into the arms of Islam - you are lying for the party, party above all, Obama Akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it hard to believe that you enjoy being shown to be an idiot as much as you do.
> This isn't secret information you know.
> 
> 
> 
> In the Supreme Court's white marble courtroom, the nine sitting justices are not the only presiding presence. At the center of the nation's legal system, high above the justices' mahogany bench, the great lawgivers of history are depicted in marble friezes....
> The 18 lawgivers looking down on the justices are divided into two friezes of ivory-colored, Spanish marble. On the south wall, to the right of incoming visitors, are figures from the pre-Christian era -- Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius and Octavian (Caesar Augustus). On the north wall to the left are lawmakers of the Christian era -- Napoleon Bonaparte, Marshall, William Blackstone, Hugo Grotius, Louis IX, King John, Charlemagne, Muhammad and Justinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supreme Court Freize
> 
> Now, of course, you're welcome to proceed with your attack on the liberal mouthpiece The Daily Republican.
Click to expand...


You think that contradicts what I wrote?

You got caught - take it like a whatever you are.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know what the most populous Islamic nation on earth is?
> Indonesia.
> 
> By law their minimum age of marriage for a woman is 16.
> Some states in the US allow marriage younger than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post links please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm disappointed you wouldn't just believe me!
> 
> 
> 
> Both foreigner and Indonesian must meet the following requirements and produce the following documents:
> 
> 
> If female, be 16 years or older; if male, be 19 years or older
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Legal Requirements for Marriage in Indonesia Indonesia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You made several claims in your post, including that children under 16 years old can marry in some states in the US.  You should link to that too.  I don't believe there are any states that allow marriage under the age of 16, and if you were to delve in and read the actual laws, you would see that there are qualifications that must be met even for a 16 year old to marry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, you want links to US laws?!
> 
> 
> 
> *Arizona*
> 
> 
> If you are 16 or 17 years old, you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian. If you are under sixteen (16), you must have the notarized consent of your parents or legal guardian as well as a court order.
> *Colorado*
> 
> 
> If you are sixteen (16) or seventeen (17), you need consent of both parents (or parent having legal custody), or guardian, or seek judicial approval. If you are under sixteen (16), a Judicial Court Order along with parental consent is necessary.
> *Connecticut*
> 
> 
> If under sixteen (16) years of age, a written consent of the judge of probate for the district where the minor teen resides must be obtained. Written parental consent is needed if under eighteen (18) years of age.
> *Florida*
> 
> 
> If a teen is under eighteen (18) years of age, but older than sixteen (16) years of age, a marriage license can be obtained with parental consent. If a parent has sole custody or the other parent is dead, the permission of one parent is sufficient. If a person is under the age of 16, the marriage license has to be issued by a county judge, with or without parental permission.
> *Kentucky*
> 
> If you are under 16, you must get approval to marry from the District Court. Minors cannot get married in Kentucky if parents or guardians are not residents of Kentucky.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Teen Marriage License Laws Minors Requirements by State
> I'm not going to go through them all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they need a parent's permission, as well as that of a judge.  Do you know the kind of extenuating circumstances where they would actually ALLOW that to happen?  Lol.  It's extremely rare.  Parents in the United States don't sell their daughters for a dowry.
> 
> I think you know there is no comparison to the United States with Islam and their child bride issues.  You are being silly and not fooling anyone.
Click to expand...


You're comparing apples and oranges - a nation with a religion.  Americans do not support child marriages (for the most part) regardless of their religion.

Child brides are a big problem, but it's not just a problem of religion - there are a lot of other factors in place that make it hard to irrradicate and it's a big problem in a number of non-Islamic countries as well.


----------



## idb

Uncensored2008 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was I lying about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That the Supreme Court has portrait of Muhammad on it's wall. It has a mural of the law givers. I understand, Obama has moved the left into the arms of Islam - you are lying for the party, party above all, Obama Akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it hard to believe that you enjoy being shown to be an idiot as much as you do.
> This isn't secret information you know.
> 
> 
> 
> In the Supreme Court's white marble courtroom, the nine sitting justices are not the only presiding presence. At the center of the nation's legal system, high above the justices' mahogany bench, the great lawgivers of history are depicted in marble friezes....
> The 18 lawgivers looking down on the justices are divided into two friezes of ivory-colored, Spanish marble. On the south wall, to the right of incoming visitors, are figures from the pre-Christian era -- Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius and Octavian (Caesar Augustus). On the north wall to the left are lawmakers of the Christian era -- Napoleon Bonaparte, Marshall, William Blackstone, Hugo Grotius, Louis IX, King John, Charlemagne, Muhammad and Justinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supreme Court Freize
> 
> Now, of course, you're welcome to proceed with your attack on the liberal mouthpiece The Daily Republican.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think that contradicts what I wrote?
> 
> You got caught - take it like a whatever you are.
Click to expand...

Interesting - using the "lalalalalalalalala!" tactic.
I bet that you win every argument using that one.


----------



## Uncensored2008

idb said:


> Interesting - using the "lalalalalalalalala!" tactic.
> I bet that you win every argument using that one.



I'm using the "you posted a falsehood and got busted" tactic.

Did you think repeating what I had posted somehow redeemed your nonsense?


----------



## idb

Uncensored2008 said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting - using the "lalalalalalalalala!" tactic.
> I bet that you win every argument using that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the "you posted a falsehood and got busted" tactic.
> 
> Did you think repeating what I had posted somehow redeemed your nonsense?
Click to expand...

You said there was no likeness of Mohammed in the Supreme Court...I pointed out there is...you said that that's what you said all along so that makes me wrong.
I think that sums it up.

Now, stick your fingers back in your ears and carry on..."lalalalalalalala".


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.
> 
> Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan,
> 
> Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.
> 
> *If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent *- within the last century or less?
> 
> That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.
Click to expand...




Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you do, your a muslim mouthpiece pushing a muslim agenda. Christians scare you, CAIR handbook what page is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't agree with Zuhdi  Jasser is that what you're saying? You are familiar with the methods of the muslim brotherhood, i know because you use them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't bother to watch your video because you are simply trying to deflect from answering a question.
Click to expand...



Just more proof you simply push your narrative "Separation of mosque and state"


----------



## pismoe

and legal child brides under a certain  age isn't a problem in the USA either , nor is female genital mutilation a problem either except when imported people start practicing there religion in the USA .  As a previous poster says , islam is not compatible with the west !!


----------



## pismoe

and then there is honor killings , quite often of teenage girls that accept western ways , manner of dress , and American boys and friends .


----------



## pismoe

general question , what other uncivilized things does IMPORTED 'islam' bring to the USA and the western world ??


----------



## pismoe

and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .


Are you suggesting that paedophilia is a Muslim thing?
Have you heard about the occasional controversy regarding Catholic priests?


----------



## pismoe

i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .


----------



## pismoe

I hear that there is a problem in muslim lands with child brides [already discussed] so yeah , seems that many muslims like widdle kids 'ibd' .  Do you have  pedo gangs in new Zealand ??   How about Rape gangs ??


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .


I know...you are selectively quoting stories about Muslims.
I'm pointing out that it's a more universal problem than just within Muslim communities.


----------



## pismoe

I'm only interested in not importing criminal pedos 'ibd' . Here is a little info but I hear that the problem is widespread in the UK , England , yada , yada , Europe .  ---  Scottish British National Party Muslim pedo gangs sexual and racial abuse of young white schoolgirls ---


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> I hear that there is a problem in muslim lands with child brides [already discussed] so yeah , seems that many muslims like widdle kids 'ibd' .  Do you have  pedo gangs in new Zealand ??   How about Rape gangs ??


Yes, many Muslims like kids.
Many Christians like kids too.
Are you condemning Christians?

I personally don't know of any 'paedo gangs' in New Zealand, neither can I remember reading about any.
That's not to say there aren't any - there are sick people everywhere.
We have our share of rapists as well.


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> I'm only interested in not importing criminal pedos 'ibd' . Here is a little info but I hear that the problem is widespread in the UK , England , yada , yada , Europe .  ---  Scottish British National Party Muslim pedo gangs sexual and racial abuse of young white schoolgirls ---


Nobody wants to import criminals of any sort.
That's an excellent policy.


----------



## pismoe

still my question that I've always asked is , why import more muslims that like little kids , practice honor killings , practice female G.M. 'ibd' ??  Doesn't make any sense , as one poster put it , islam is not compatible with western culture , values , traditions .  Sure muslims have been in the USA for a long time but in small numbers they were no problem except as the occasional criminal . Course when you start importing large numbers of them the equation changes ,  See the UK and its muslim pedophiles .


----------



## pismoe

so when you have mass importation of muslims into the UK there is no way of knowing who you let in . Myself , I'd like to see zero immigration of all groups into the western world .  No reason to import people just because they want to come to the USA . Same reasoning goes for ALL the western world .  Who cares what immigrants want , let them build their own country into a nice place .


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.
> 
> Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan,
> 
> Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.
> 
> *If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent *- within the last century or less?
> 
> That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't agree with Zuhdi  Jasser is that what you're saying? You are familiar with the methods of the muslim brotherhood, i know because you use them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't bother to watch your video because you are simply trying to deflect from answering a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just more proof you simply push your narrative "Separation of mosque and state"
Click to expand...


And you STILL can't answer a simple question. Deflect, dodge, duck and weave.  Oh, and fling poo like a trained monkey.
_
Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans? _


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> What was I lying about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That the Supreme Court has portrait of Muhammad on it's wall. It has a mural of the law givers. I understand, Obama has moved the left into the arms of Islam - you are lying for the party, party above all, Obama Akbar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it hard to believe that you enjoy being shown to be an idiot as much as you do.
> This isn't secret information you know.
> 
> 
> 
> In the Supreme Court's white marble courtroom, the nine sitting justices are not the only presiding presence. At the center of the nation's legal system, high above the justices' mahogany bench, the great lawgivers of history are depicted in marble friezes....
> The 18 lawgivers looking down on the justices are divided into two friezes of ivory-colored, Spanish marble. On the south wall, to the right of incoming visitors, are figures from the pre-Christian era -- Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius and Octavian (Caesar Augustus). On the north wall to the left are lawmakers of the Christian era -- Napoleon Bonaparte, Marshall, William Blackstone, Hugo Grotius, Louis IX, King John, Charlemagne, Muhammad and Justinian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supreme Court Freize
> 
> Now, of course, you're welcome to proceed with your attack on the liberal mouthpiece The Daily Republican.
Click to expand...




pismoe said:


> still my question that I've always asked is , why import more muslims that like little kids , practice honor killings , practice female G.M. 'ibd' ??  Doesn't make any sense , as one poster put it , islam is not compatible with western culture , values , traditions .  Sure muslims have been in the USA for a long time but in small numbers they were no problem except as the occasional criminal . Course when you start importing large numbers of them the equation changes ,  See the UK and its muslim pedophiles .



Yup, culture clash.


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that paedophilia is a Muslim thing?
> Have you heard about the occasional controversy regarding Catholic priests?
Click to expand...


Islam supports marrying off girls when they start menstruation.  That can be as young as 9 years old.  I've already posted links to this information.


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> still my question that I've always asked is , why import more muslims that like little kids



Are you saying pedophilia is unique to one religion?  Should we perhaps reconsider "importing" Catholics?



> , practice honor killings



Honor killing is murder.  Murder is a crime that is not unique to any one group of people.  Perhaps we should "import" no one and put all our citizens under house arrest just in case because domestic violence often involves killing the woman.  Maybe we should just deport all the men.



> , practice female G.M. 'ibd' ??



Again, it's illegal.  If people break the law, then that will be dealt with.  But you also have the problem that female GM is rampant amongst Christians in those part of Africa as well.  You better not "import" them either.



> Doesn't make any sense , as one poster put it , islam is not compatible with western culture , values , traditions .  Sure muslims have been in the USA for a long time but in small numbers they were no problem except as the occasional criminal . Course when you start importing large numbers of them the equation changes ,  See the UK and its muslim pedophiles .



Islam is certainly comaptable with western culture.  Ask the millions of Muslims here who live in it, love it, support it, firght for it and are very much a part of it.


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> so when you have mass importation of muslims into the UK there is no way of knowing who you let in . Myself , I'd like to see zero immigration of all groups into the western world .  No reason to import people just because they want to come to the USA . Same reasoning goes for ALL the western world .  Who cares what immigrants want , let them build their own country into a nice place .



There is no way of knowing "who you let in" with any group.  At all.  And there is no way of knowing what native sons you have closed in and nurtured.  

We're a nation of immigrants.  It's our heritage.  I wouldn't be here otherwise.  Would you?


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that paedophilia is a Muslim thing?
> Have you heard about the occasional controversy regarding Catholic priests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam supports marrying off girls when they start menstruation.  That can be as young as 9 years old.  I've already posted links to this information.
Click to expand...


So does Judaism - they set it at 12,  where's the outcry?

Thing is - no religion, that originated a thousand or thousands of years ago, is strictly compatable with modern western culture.  Menses signified the transition to adulthood for girls.  And marriage.  The Bible while it has no specific rules is full of examples of this and if a Christian wanted to live Biblically - his daughters would be married by 12 (Mary's age).

In the modern world, we don't act on that.  We recognize that that is far too young for marriage and that is very damaging to young girls.   Around the world laws are being made setting minimum ages.  Even in Islamic majority countries.  And who is pushing for those laws and who is making those laws in those regions?  Muslims.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .



The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked. 

Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I really like you and respect you as a poster.  You are a great person with a big heart, but I think you are dead wrong about this topic Coyote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.
> 
> Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan,
> 
> Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.
> 
> *If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent *- within the last century or less?
> 
> That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> American muslim movement? is there such a thing? I do know the goals of the muslm brotherhood as you do groups like CAIR advance that goal
> 
> Ok this guy should be leading your movement then .You like him?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't agree with Zuhdi  Jasser is that what you're saying? You are familiar with the methods of the muslim brotherhood, i know because you use them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't bother to watch your video because you are simply trying to deflect from answering a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just more proof you simply push your narrative "Separation of mosque and state"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you STILL can't answer a simple question. Deflect, dodge, duck and weave.  Oh, and fling poo like a trained monkey.
> _
> Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans? _
Click to expand...



Unlike Europe the movement is still in it's infancy here: 



> "Smooth sailing" indeed would seem to characterize the early decades of the _Ikhwan_'s Da'wa movement in America. The first official Muslim Brotherhood front organization founded in the U.S. was the Muslim Students Association (MSA), established on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the University of Illinois in 1964. Today, there are over 600 MSA chapters at colleges and universities across North America, working to recruit members to the Muslim Brotherhood and jihad. According to former FBI Special Agent John Guandolo, "The MSA serves as a recruitment tool to bring Muslims into the Brotherhood…[w]hich was its original purpose: to evaluate Muslims and to bring them into the Brotherhood and to recruit non-Muslims into Islam as a dawa entity, giving them the call to Islam."[15] The MSA was the blueprint model for the thousands of Muslim Brotherhood front groups that exist, function, and continue to multiply across the U.S. today.





> "The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.
> 
> The last page of the "Explanatory Memorandum" listed 29 Muslim Brotherhood groups under the heading, "A list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends."[25] Among these are the names of some of the best-known,_mainstream_ Islamic organizations in the U.S. today, including a number whose Muslim Brotherhood-linked officials advise[26], socialize with[27], and train[28] the leadership of key agencies within the U.S. national security community. The list includes the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP, the immediate parent organization of the Council on Islamic American Relations or CAIR), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), and the Muslim Students Association (MSA). This is, of course, but a small sampling of North American Muslim Brotherhood front groups, but gives an idea of the level of "acceptability," among both mainstream Muslim and U.S. society in general, that the groups have achieved by stealth and deception.
> 
> One of the most "mainstream" of these front groups is the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), named, by the Justice Dept., an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror funding case. According to Frank Gaffney, the president of the Center for Security Policy (CSP)[29], ISNA functions as a kind of umbrella organization for many hundreds of offshoot Islamic Societies across North America.



History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .



Are you suggesting every Muslim male is a pedophile?  Seriously?


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that paedophilia is a Muslim thing?
> Have you heard about the occasional controversy regarding Catholic priests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam supports marrying off girls when they start menstruation.  That can be as young as 9 years old.  I've already posted links to this information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So does Judaism - they set it at 12,  where's the outcry?
> 
> Thing is - no religion, that originated a thousand or thousands of years ago, is strictly compatable with modern western culture.  Menses signified the transition to adulthood for girls.  And marriage.  The Bible while it has no specific rules is full of examples of this and if a Christian wanted to live Biblically - his daughters would be married by 12 (Mary's age).
> 
> In the modern world, we don't act on that.  We recognize that that is far too young for marriage and that is very damaging to young girls.   Around the world laws are being made setting minimum ages.  Even in Islamic majority countries.  And who is pushing for those laws and who is making those laws in those regions?  Muslims.
Click to expand...


This is still a popular practice in Islam, as I'm sure you know.  Islam is pushing against these laws.  I already posted a link.  The people who are opposed to setting a legal age for marriage is the Islamic group that advises the Pakistani government on Islamic law.  IOW, they are the ones setting the laws in regards to Islam.


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that paedophilia is a Muslim thing?
> Have you heard about the occasional controversy regarding Catholic priests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam supports marrying off girls when they start menstruation.  That can be as young as 9 years old.  I've already posted links to this information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So does Judaism - they set it at 12,  where's the outcry?
> 
> Thing is - no religion, that originated a thousand or thousands of years ago, is strictly compatable with modern western culture.  Menses signified the transition to adulthood for girls.  And marriage.  The Bible while it has no specific rules is full of examples of this and if a Christian wanted to live Biblically - his daughters would be married by 12 (Mary's age).
> 
> In the modern world, we don't act on that.  We recognize that that is far too young for marriage and that is very damaging to young girls.   Around the world laws are being made setting minimum ages.  Even in Islamic majority countries.  And who is pushing for those laws and who is making those laws in those regions?  Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is still a popular practice in Islam, as I'm sure you know.  Islam is pushing against these laws.  I already posted a link.  The people who are opposed to setting a legal age for marriage is the Islamic group that advises the Pakistani government on Islamic law.  IOW, they are the ones setting the laws in regards to Islam.
Click to expand...

'IOW' nothing.
According to the link, they are advisors.
If they make the law, why are they protesting?


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
Click to expand...


These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?

Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm dead wrong about support amongst American muslims for this?  No one has  shown me anything beyond flinging insults Chris.  I'm sure you can dig up a few whackos and extremists, but you can find that in any religion.  Where is any kind of relevant move to subjugate the US to Islam?  It just plain isn't there because American muslims are American and like anyone else, cherish the Constitution and the freedoms it provides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.
> 
> Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan,
> 
> Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.
> 
> *If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent *- within the last century or less?
> 
> That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Translation: _ I can't find any real support for an American Muslim movement to subjegate America to the supremacy of Islam so I'll throw monkey-poo instead._
> 
> You're good at ducking, dodging and flinging poo.  Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?  Can you address that or just fling more poo?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't agree with Zuhdi  Jasser is that what you're saying? You are familiar with the methods of the muslim brotherhood, i know because you use them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't bother to watch your video because you are simply trying to deflect from answering a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just more proof you simply push your narrative "Separation of mosque and state"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you STILL can't answer a simple question. Deflect, dodge, duck and weave.  Oh, and fling poo like a trained monkey.
> _
> Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans? _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Europe the movement is still in it's infancy here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Smooth sailing" indeed would seem to characterize the early decades of the _Ikhwan_'s Da'wa movement in America. The first official Muslim Brotherhood front organization founded in the U.S. was the Muslim Students Association (MSA), established on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the University of Illinois in 1964. Today, there are over 600 MSA chapters at colleges and universities across North America, working to recruit members to the Muslim Brotherhood and jihad. According to former FBI Special Agent John Guandolo, "The MSA serves as a recruitment tool to bring Muslims into the Brotherhood…[w]hich was its original purpose: to evaluate Muslims and to bring them into the Brotherhood and to recruit non-Muslims into Islam as a dawa entity, giving them the call to Islam."[15] The MSA was the blueprint model for the thousands of Muslim Brotherhood front groups that exist, function, and continue to multiply across the U.S. today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.
> 
> The last page of the "Explanatory Memorandum" listed 29 Muslim Brotherhood groups under the heading, "A list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends."[25] Among these are the names of some of the best-known,_mainstream_ Islamic organizations in the U.S. today, including a number whose Muslim Brotherhood-linked officials advise[26], socialize with[27], and train[28] the leadership of key agencies within the U.S. national security community. The list includes the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP, the immediate parent organization of the Council on Islamic American Relations or CAIR), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), and the Muslim Students Association (MSA). This is, of course, but a small sampling of North American Muslim Brotherhood front groups, but gives an idea of the level of "acceptability," among both mainstream Muslim and U.S. society in general, that the groups have achieved by stealth and deception.
> 
> One of the most "mainstream" of these front groups is the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), named, by the Justice Dept., an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror funding case. According to Frank Gaffney, the president of the Center for Security Policy (CSP)[29], ISNA functions as a kind of umbrella organization for many hundreds of offshoot Islamic Societies across North America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government
Click to expand...


The Gatestone Institute?  Are you serious?  That's about as credible as Mondoweiss.  It's reminiscent of McCarthy-era propoganda.

And it doesn't answer the question.

_*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  *Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?_


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .





Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
Click to expand...


It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
Click to expand...


Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that paedophilia is a Muslim thing?
> Have you heard about the occasional controversy regarding Catholic priests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Islam supports marrying off girls when they start menstruation.  That can be as young as 9 years old.  I've already posted links to this information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So does Judaism - they set it at 12,  where's the outcry?
> 
> Thing is - no religion, that originated a thousand or thousands of years ago, is strictly compatable with modern western culture.  Menses signified the transition to adulthood for girls.  And marriage.  The Bible while it has no specific rules is full of examples of this and if a Christian wanted to live Biblically - his daughters would be married by 12 (Mary's age).
> 
> In the modern world, we don't act on that.  We recognize that that is far too young for marriage and that is very damaging to young girls.   Around the world laws are being made setting minimum ages.  Even in Islamic majority countries.  And who is pushing for those laws and who is making those laws in those regions?  Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *This is still a popular practice in Islam*, as I'm sure you know.  Islam is pushing against these laws.  I already posted a link.  The people who are opposed to setting a legal age for marriage is the Islamic group that advises the Pakistani government on Islamic law.  IOW, they are the ones setting the laws in regards to Islam.
Click to expand...


Is it really?  "Popular"?  It's too common, yes.  It's too common around the world.

Where does it happen - Girls Not Brides


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote, everywhere this so-called "religion" takes hold, trouble follows.  UNLESS they are the ruling party of course.  Look around.  Look around the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.
> 
> Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan,
> 
> Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.
> 
> *If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent *- within the last century or less?
> 
> That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't agree with Zuhdi  Jasser is that what you're saying? You are familiar with the methods of the muslim brotherhood, i know because you use them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't bother to watch your video because you are simply trying to deflect from answering a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just more proof you simply push your narrative "Separation of mosque and state"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you STILL can't answer a simple question. Deflect, dodge, duck and weave.  Oh, and fling poo like a trained monkey.
> _
> Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans? _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Europe the movement is still in it's infancy here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Smooth sailing" indeed would seem to characterize the early decades of the _Ikhwan_'s Da'wa movement in America. The first official Muslim Brotherhood front organization founded in the U.S. was the Muslim Students Association (MSA), established on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the University of Illinois in 1964. Today, there are over 600 MSA chapters at colleges and universities across North America, working to recruit members to the Muslim Brotherhood and jihad. According to former FBI Special Agent John Guandolo, "The MSA serves as a recruitment tool to bring Muslims into the Brotherhood…[w]hich was its original purpose: to evaluate Muslims and to bring them into the Brotherhood and to recruit non-Muslims into Islam as a dawa entity, giving them the call to Islam."[15] The MSA was the blueprint model for the thousands of Muslim Brotherhood front groups that exist, function, and continue to multiply across the U.S. today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.
> 
> The last page of the "Explanatory Memorandum" listed 29 Muslim Brotherhood groups under the heading, "A list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends."[25] Among these are the names of some of the best-known,_mainstream_ Islamic organizations in the U.S. today, including a number whose Muslim Brotherhood-linked officials advise[26], socialize with[27], and train[28] the leadership of key agencies within the U.S. national security community. The list includes the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP, the immediate parent organization of the Council on Islamic American Relations or CAIR), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), and the Muslim Students Association (MSA). This is, of course, but a small sampling of North American Muslim Brotherhood front groups, but gives an idea of the level of "acceptability," among both mainstream Muslim and U.S. society in general, that the groups have achieved by stealth and deception.
> 
> One of the most "mainstream" of these front groups is the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), named, by the Justice Dept., an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror funding case. According to Frank Gaffney, the president of the Center for Security Policy (CSP)[29], ISNA functions as a kind of umbrella organization for many hundreds of offshoot Islamic Societies across North America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Gatestone Institute?  Are you serious?  That's about as credible as Mondoweiss.  It's reminiscent of McCarthy-era propoganda.
> 
> And it doesn't answer the question.
> 
> _*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  *Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?_
Click to expand...


I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.


----------



## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
Click to expand...


It's been discussed before - it's certainly not new.  At least twice I've dug up links and made arguments.


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam has been in the US, Europe, Canada, etc for years, in many cases centuries or a millinium.  In many of those areas- not when you compare it to the entire population.  Even in the US the number of violent shootings and terrorist incidents by non-Muslims far far outnumbers that of Muslims.
> 
> Even in many Muslim majority countries, there is relatively little religious or ethnic trouble so you never hear about it.  Azerbaijan,
> 
> Where there is trouble now is a relatively recent phenomenum with a lot of root causes such as corruption, poverty, authoritarian government rule or high unemployment making it easy for extremism to make inroads amongst dissatisfied people.
> 
> *If everywhere that Muslims went, there is trouble then why is the trouble only recent *- within the last century or less?
> 
> That's not downplaying it as Muslims themselves are the main victims of all of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't bother to watch your video because you are simply trying to deflect from answering a question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Just more proof you simply push your narrative "Separation of mosque and state"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you STILL can't answer a simple question. Deflect, dodge, duck and weave.  Oh, and fling poo like a trained monkey.
> _
> Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans? _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Europe the movement is still in it's infancy here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Smooth sailing" indeed would seem to characterize the early decades of the _Ikhwan_'s Da'wa movement in America. The first official Muslim Brotherhood front organization founded in the U.S. was the Muslim Students Association (MSA), established on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the University of Illinois in 1964. Today, there are over 600 MSA chapters at colleges and universities across North America, working to recruit members to the Muslim Brotherhood and jihad. According to former FBI Special Agent John Guandolo, "The MSA serves as a recruitment tool to bring Muslims into the Brotherhood…[w]hich was its original purpose: to evaluate Muslims and to bring them into the Brotherhood and to recruit non-Muslims into Islam as a dawa entity, giving them the call to Islam."[15] The MSA was the blueprint model for the thousands of Muslim Brotherhood front groups that exist, function, and continue to multiply across the U.S. today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.
> 
> The last page of the "Explanatory Memorandum" listed 29 Muslim Brotherhood groups under the heading, "A list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends."[25] Among these are the names of some of the best-known,_mainstream_ Islamic organizations in the U.S. today, including a number whose Muslim Brotherhood-linked officials advise[26], socialize with[27], and train[28] the leadership of key agencies within the U.S. national security community. The list includes the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP, the immediate parent organization of the Council on Islamic American Relations or CAIR), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), and the Muslim Students Association (MSA). This is, of course, but a small sampling of North American Muslim Brotherhood front groups, but gives an idea of the level of "acceptability," among both mainstream Muslim and U.S. society in general, that the groups have achieved by stealth and deception.
> 
> One of the most "mainstream" of these front groups is the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), named, by the Justice Dept., an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror funding case. According to Frank Gaffney, the president of the Center for Security Policy (CSP)[29], ISNA functions as a kind of umbrella organization for many hundreds of offshoot Islamic Societies across North America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Gatestone Institute?  Are you serious?  That's about as credible as Mondoweiss.  It's reminiscent of McCarthy-era propoganda.
> 
> And it doesn't answer the question.
> 
> _*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  *Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.
Click to expand...


You didn't answer anything


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's been discussed before - it's certainly not new.  At least twice I've dug up links and made arguments.
Click to expand...


Then it shouldn't be hard to do it again! I have much of my research saved, perhaps you should learn to do the same!


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just more proof you simply push your narrative "Separation of mosque and state"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you STILL can't answer a simple question. Deflect, dodge, duck and weave.  Oh, and fling poo like a trained monkey.
> _
> Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans? _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Europe the movement is still in it's infancy here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Smooth sailing" indeed would seem to characterize the early decades of the _Ikhwan_'s Da'wa movement in America. The first official Muslim Brotherhood front organization founded in the U.S. was the Muslim Students Association (MSA), established on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the University of Illinois in 1964. Today, there are over 600 MSA chapters at colleges and universities across North America, working to recruit members to the Muslim Brotherhood and jihad. According to former FBI Special Agent John Guandolo, "The MSA serves as a recruitment tool to bring Muslims into the Brotherhood…[w]hich was its original purpose: to evaluate Muslims and to bring them into the Brotherhood and to recruit non-Muslims into Islam as a dawa entity, giving them the call to Islam."[15] The MSA was the blueprint model for the thousands of Muslim Brotherhood front groups that exist, function, and continue to multiply across the U.S. today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.
> 
> The last page of the "Explanatory Memorandum" listed 29 Muslim Brotherhood groups under the heading, "A list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends."[25] Among these are the names of some of the best-known,_mainstream_ Islamic organizations in the U.S. today, including a number whose Muslim Brotherhood-linked officials advise[26], socialize with[27], and train[28] the leadership of key agencies within the U.S. national security community. The list includes the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP, the immediate parent organization of the Council on Islamic American Relations or CAIR), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), and the Muslim Students Association (MSA). This is, of course, but a small sampling of North American Muslim Brotherhood front groups, but gives an idea of the level of "acceptability," among both mainstream Muslim and U.S. society in general, that the groups have achieved by stealth and deception.
> 
> One of the most "mainstream" of these front groups is the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), named, by the Justice Dept., an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror funding case. According to Frank Gaffney, the president of the Center for Security Policy (CSP)[29], ISNA functions as a kind of umbrella organization for many hundreds of offshoot Islamic Societies across North America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Gatestone Institute?  Are you serious?  That's about as credible as Mondoweiss.  It's reminiscent of McCarthy-era propoganda.
> 
> And it doesn't answer the question.
> 
> _*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  *Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't answer anything
Click to expand...


----------



## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
Click to expand...


Here are some threads where it was discussed.

Used and abused UK s young girls Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Britain - 90 of the Child rape and Child grooming is committed by Muslims. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Norway s Problem with Anti-Semitism Page 7 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you STILL can't answer a simple question. Deflect, dodge, duck and weave.  Oh, and fling poo like a trained monkey.
> _
> Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans? _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Europe the movement is still in it's infancy here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Smooth sailing" indeed would seem to characterize the early decades of the _Ikhwan_'s Da'wa movement in America. The first official Muslim Brotherhood front organization founded in the U.S. was the Muslim Students Association (MSA), established on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the University of Illinois in 1964. Today, there are over 600 MSA chapters at colleges and universities across North America, working to recruit members to the Muslim Brotherhood and jihad. According to former FBI Special Agent John Guandolo, "The MSA serves as a recruitment tool to bring Muslims into the Brotherhood…[w]hich was its original purpose: to evaluate Muslims and to bring them into the Brotherhood and to recruit non-Muslims into Islam as a dawa entity, giving them the call to Islam."[15] The MSA was the blueprint model for the thousands of Muslim Brotherhood front groups that exist, function, and continue to multiply across the U.S. today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.
> 
> The last page of the "Explanatory Memorandum" listed 29 Muslim Brotherhood groups under the heading, "A list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends."[25] Among these are the names of some of the best-known,_mainstream_ Islamic organizations in the U.S. today, including a number whose Muslim Brotherhood-linked officials advise[26], socialize with[27], and train[28] the leadership of key agencies within the U.S. national security community. The list includes the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP, the immediate parent organization of the Council on Islamic American Relations or CAIR), the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT), and the Muslim Students Association (MSA). This is, of course, but a small sampling of North American Muslim Brotherhood front groups, but gives an idea of the level of "acceptability," among both mainstream Muslim and U.S. society in general, that the groups have achieved by stealth and deception.
> 
> One of the most "mainstream" of these front groups is the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), named, by the Justice Dept., an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation terror funding case. According to Frank Gaffney, the president of the Center for Security Policy (CSP)[29], ISNA functions as a kind of umbrella organization for many hundreds of offshoot Islamic Societies across North America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Gatestone Institute?  Are you serious?  That's about as credible as Mondoweiss.  It's reminiscent of McCarthy-era propoganda.
> 
> And it doesn't answer the question.
> 
> _*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  *Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't answer anything
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



What is that supposed to show?  
*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*

Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Europe the movement is still in it's infancy here:
> 
> History of the Muslim Brotherhood Penetration of the U.S. Government
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Gatestone Institute?  Are you serious?  That's about as credible as Mondoweiss.  It's reminiscent of McCarthy-era propoganda.
> 
> And it doesn't answer the question.
> 
> _*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  *Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't answer anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
Click to expand...



Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and look at the 'pedophile gangs' in England , although they might also be in the whole UK . How about 'new zealand' 'IDB' ??  Do you have any pedophile gangs or rape gangs in 'new Zealand'  ??   See Sweden to check out info on 'rape gangs' that are raping Swede women .  Think its Sweden or Norway , might be both .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here are some threads where it was discussed.
> 
> Used and abused UK s young girls Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Britain - 90 of the Child rape and Child grooming is committed by Muslims. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Norway s Problem with Anti-Semitism Page 7 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Click to expand...


I just checked on the last link listed and it states that Somali's rape 3.5X their proportionate population and Iraqi's rape at 10.39X heir proportionate population in Onslow.... seems to prove my point, not yours!


----------



## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> The so-called Swedish and Norwegian "rape epidemic" was debunked.
> 
> Pedophile gangs exist all over the world as part of human trafficking and in the UK it's by no means exclusive to Muslims.  It's another variation of the "run run they're going to rape our women and children" fear mongering. Criminals are criminals regardless of their religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here are some threads where it was discussed.
> 
> Used and abused UK s young girls Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Britain - 90 of the Child rape and Child grooming is committed by Muslims. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Norway s Problem with Anti-Semitism Page 7 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just checked on the last link listed and it states that Somali's rape 3.5X their proportionate population and Iraqi's rape at 10.39X heir proportionate population in Onslow.... seems to prove my point, not yours!
Click to expand...


Not when you take it out of context, which is looking at the different immigrant groups.


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## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> The Gatestone Institute?  Are you serious?  That's about as credible as Mondoweiss.  It's reminiscent of McCarthy-era propoganda.
> 
> And it doesn't answer the question.
> 
> _*Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?  *Outside of probably a handful of whackos which every religion has, where is this support amongst Americans?_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You didn't answer anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
Click to expand...


Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?


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## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> Vigilante said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying that the pedophiles in England that have been in the news the last couple of years are 'imports' and most in the stories I'm talking about are muslim 'ibd' .   Point is that if you don't import muslim pedophiles then there will be LESS pedophiles in England .  On the Catholic preists , well most are indigenous or at least westerners .  Hang those preists when they are caught molesting widdle kids .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> These were debunked Coyote?... have a few links to such?
> 
> Ten Horrifying Stories of Muslims Gang Raping White Women Mr. Conservative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here are some threads where it was discussed.
> 
> Used and abused UK s young girls Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Britain - 90 of the Child rape and Child grooming is committed by Muslims. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Norway s Problem with Anti-Semitism Page 7 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just checked on the last link listed and it states that Somali's rape 3.5X their proportionate population and Iraqi's rape at 10.39X heir proportionate population in Onslow.... seems to prove my point, not yours!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not when you take it out of context, which is looking at the different immigrant groups.
Click to expand...

Not taken out of context, it's right in your face...seems you manipulate data to look like it agrees with you, when it doesn't.


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## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
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> 
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> Vigilante said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> Vigilante said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> It was gone into at great length on other threads - I'm not going to dig them up again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here are some threads where it was discussed.
> 
> Used and abused UK s young girls Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Britain - 90 of the Child rape and Child grooming is committed by Muslims. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Norway s Problem with Anti-Semitism Page 7 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just checked on the last link listed and it states that Somali's rape 3.5X their proportionate population and Iraqi's rape at 10.39X heir proportionate population in Onslow.... seems to prove my point, not yours!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not when you take it out of context, which is looking at the different immigrant groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not taken out of context, it's right in your face...seems you manipulate data to look like it agrees with you, when it doesn't.
Click to expand...


You are taking it out of context - read the entire post - or, more precisely, *the sentance preceding that you left out.*
_According to this chart, *the percentage of rapists among Pakistanis, Norway's largest immigrant group, is about their percentage in the population.* However, by Somalis their rape percentage is 3.5 times their percentage in the population, and by Iraqis it's 10.39 times as high_​


----------



## pismoe

just a comment on 'RAPE JIHAD' , its a common practice in Islamic warfare .


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> Vigilante said:
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> 
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> Coyote said:
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> Vigilante said:
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> Coyote said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how I must have missed them, but caught this one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some threads where it was discussed.
> 
> Used and abused UK s young girls Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Britain - 90 of the Child rape and Child grooming is committed by Muslims. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Norway s Problem with Anti-Semitism Page 7 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just checked on the last link listed and it states that Somali's rape 3.5X their proportionate population and Iraqi's rape at 10.39X heir proportionate population in Onslow.... seems to prove my point, not yours!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not when you take it out of context, which is looking at the different immigrant groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not taken out of context, it's right in your face...seems you manipulate data to look like it agrees with you, when it doesn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are taking it out of context - read the entire post - or, more precisely, *the sentance preceding that you left out.*
> _According to this chart, *the percentage of rapists among Pakistanis, Norway's largest immigrant group, is about their percentage in the population.* However, by Somalis their rape percentage is 3.5 times their percentage in the population, and by Iraqis it's 10.39 times as high_​
Click to expand...

Yes, and Somali's and Iraqi's rape proportionately more But I find this interesting

As of 1 January 2014[update]:[22]

*Ethnic Group! Number* *Number*
Dutch (& Frisians) 13,234,545
Turkish (& Kurdish) 396,414
Moroccan (& Berber) 374,996
Indonesian (& Indo) 372,233
Germans 368,512
Surinamese 348,291
Dutch Caribbean 146,855
Polish 123,003
Belgians 115,028
Former Yugoslavs 82,290
British 81,860
Chinese 64,097
Iraqis 54,159
Others 1,067,056
Total 16,829,289

I see NO Pakistani, or Iraqi's listed! UNLESS they are a smaller group than the Iraqis at 54,159 and included in OTHERS! Which, I believe makes them even MORE LIKELY to commit rape. But you may disagree.


----------



## pismoe

a little info on RAPE JIHAD in England ---  Britain Rape Jihad Against Children  ---


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> just a comment on 'RAPE JIHAD' , its a common practice in Islamic warfare .


 
Rape is a common practice in warfare - any warfare: BBC NEWS In Depth How did rape become a weapon of war 

What do you think has been happening in the Congo all these years?  Women raped with implements that leave them horribly mutilated, even babies raped.


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> a little info on RAPE JIHAD in England ---  Britain Rape Jihad Against Children  ---



Gatestone again huh?


----------



## skye

unbelievable!

all these islamo/nazis ...

sickening!


----------



## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some threads where it was discussed.
> 
> Used and abused UK s young girls Page 11 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Britain - 90 of the Child rape and Child grooming is committed by Muslims. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> Norway s Problem with Anti-Semitism Page 7 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked on the last link listed and it states that Somali's rape 3.5X their proportionate population and Iraqi's rape at 10.39X heir proportionate population in Onslow.... seems to prove my point, not yours!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not when you take it out of context, which is looking at the different immigrant groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not taken out of context, it's right in your face...seems you manipulate data to look like it agrees with you, when it doesn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are taking it out of context - read the entire post - or, more precisely, *the sentance preceding that you left out.*
> _According to this chart, *the percentage of rapists among Pakistanis, Norway's largest immigrant group, is about their percentage in the population.* However, by Somalis their rape percentage is 3.5 times their percentage in the population, and by Iraqis it's 10.39 times as high_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, and Somali's and Iraqi's rape proportionately more But I find this interesting
> 
> As of 1 January 2014[update]:[22]
> 
> *Ethnic Group! Number* *Number*
> Dutch (& Frisians) 13,234,545
> Turkish (& Kurdish) 396,414
> Moroccan (& Berber) 374,996
> Indonesian (& Indo) 372,233
> Germans 368,512
> Surinamese 348,291
> Dutch Caribbean 146,855
> Polish 123,003
> Belgians 115,028
> Former Yugoslavs 82,290
> British 81,860
> Chinese 64,097
> Iraqis 54,159
> Others 1,067,056
> Total 16,829,289
> 
> I see NO Pakistani, or Iraqi's listed! UNLESS they are a smaller group than the Iraqis at 54,159 and included in OTHERS! Which, I believe makes them even MORE LIKELY to commit rape. But you may disagree.
Click to expand...


????? What is the link?


----------



## pismoe

and then this ---  Sweden Tops Europe for Number of Rapes Muslim Rape Jihad EuropeNews  --- yeah Europe news .


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked on the last link listed and it states that Somali's rape 3.5X their proportionate population and Iraqi's rape at 10.39X heir proportionate population in Onslow.... seems to prove my point, not yours!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when you take it out of context, which is looking at the different immigrant groups.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not taken out of context, it's right in your face...seems you manipulate data to look like it agrees with you, when it doesn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are taking it out of context - read the entire post - or, more precisely, *the sentance preceding that you left out.*
> _According to this chart, *the percentage of rapists among Pakistanis, Norway's largest immigrant group, is about their percentage in the population.* However, by Somalis their rape percentage is 3.5 times their percentage in the population, and by Iraqis it's 10.39 times as high_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, and Somali's and Iraqi's rape proportionately more But I find this interesting
> 
> As of 1 January 2014[update]:[22]
> 
> *Ethnic Group! Number* *Number*
> Dutch (& Frisians) 13,234,545
> Turkish (& Kurdish) 396,414
> Moroccan (& Berber) 374,996
> Indonesian (& Indo) 372,233
> Germans 368,512
> Surinamese 348,291
> Dutch Caribbean 146,855
> Polish 123,003
> Belgians 115,028
> Former Yugoslavs 82,290
> British 81,860
> Chinese 64,097
> Iraqis 54,159
> Others 1,067,056
> Total 16,829,289
> 
> I see NO Pakistani, or Iraqi's listed! UNLESS they are a smaller group than the Iraqis at 54,159 and included in OTHERS! Which, I believe makes them even MORE LIKELY to commit rape. But you may disagree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ????? What is the link?
Click to expand...


Mine was Wiki demographics!


----------



## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not when you take it out of context, which is looking at the different immigrant groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Not taken out of context, it's right in your face...seems you manipulate data to look like it agrees with you, when it doesn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are taking it out of context - read the entire post - or, more precisely, *the sentance preceding that you left out.*
> _According to this chart, *the percentage of rapists among Pakistanis, Norway's largest immigrant group, is about their percentage in the population.* However, by Somalis their rape percentage is 3.5 times their percentage in the population, and by Iraqis it's 10.39 times as high_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, and Somali's and Iraqi's rape proportionately more But I find this interesting
> 
> As of 1 January 2014[update]:[22]
> 
> *Ethnic Group! Number* *Number*
> Dutch (& Frisians) 13,234,545
> Turkish (& Kurdish) 396,414
> Moroccan (& Berber) 374,996
> Indonesian (& Indo) 372,233
> Germans 368,512
> Surinamese 348,291
> Dutch Caribbean 146,855
> Polish 123,003
> Belgians 115,028
> Former Yugoslavs 82,290
> British 81,860
> Chinese 64,097
> Iraqis 54,159
> Others 1,067,056
> Total 16,829,289
> 
> I see NO Pakistani, or Iraqi's listed! UNLESS they are a smaller group than the Iraqis at 54,159 and included in OTHERS! Which, I believe makes them even MORE LIKELY to commit rape. But you may disagree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ????? What is the link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mine was Wiki demographics!
Click to expand...


Demographics of what?  The "update" link takes me to an edit page on the Netherlands.


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> and then this ---  Sweden Tops Europe for Number of Rapes Muslim Rape Jihad EuropeNews  --- yeah Europe news .



That's also been debunked.


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not taken out of context, it's right in your face...seems you manipulate data to look like it agrees with you, when it doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are taking it out of context - read the entire post - or, more precisely, *the sentance preceding that you left out.*
> _According to this chart, *the percentage of rapists among Pakistanis, Norway's largest immigrant group, is about their percentage in the population.* However, by Somalis their rape percentage is 3.5 times their percentage in the population, and by Iraqis it's 10.39 times as high_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, and Somali's and Iraqi's rape proportionately more But I find this interesting
> 
> As of 1 January 2014[update]:[22]
> 
> *Ethnic Group! Number* *Number*
> Dutch (& Frisians) 13,234,545
> Turkish (& Kurdish) 396,414
> Moroccan (& Berber) 374,996
> Indonesian (& Indo) 372,233
> Germans 368,512
> Surinamese 348,291
> Dutch Caribbean 146,855
> Polish 123,003
> Belgians 115,028
> Former Yugoslavs 82,290
> British 81,860
> Chinese 64,097
> Iraqis 54,159
> Others 1,067,056
> Total 16,829,289
> 
> I see NO Pakistani, or Iraqi's listed! UNLESS they are a smaller group than the Iraqis at 54,159 and included in OTHERS! Which, I believe makes them even MORE LIKELY to commit rape. But you may disagree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ????? What is the link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mine was Wiki demographics!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Demographics of what?  The "update" link takes me to an edit page on the Netherlands.
Click to expand...

Demographics of the Netherlands - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


----------



## Vigilante

Coyote said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and then this ---  Sweden Tops Europe for Number of Rapes Muslim Rape Jihad EuropeNews  --- yeah Europe news .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's also been debunked.
Click to expand...


LINK please, it's not that we don't believe you......


----------



## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> and then this ---  Sweden Tops Europe for Number of Rapes Muslim Rape Jihad EuropeNews  --- yeah Europe news .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's also been debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LINK please, it's not that we don't believe you......
Click to expand...


I already provided the links where that was discussed.


----------



## pismoe

debunked by WHO , and would I and other readers believe the DEBUNKING ??  One mans deunking is another type of lie .  But here , here is the Guardian ---  Oxford child sex abuse ring social services failed me says victim Society The Guardian  ---  I think that its a good certainly as good as your opinion Coyote !!


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## Coyote

Vigilante said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are taking it out of context - read the entire post - or, more precisely, *the sentance preceding that you left out.*
> _According to this chart, *the percentage of rapists among Pakistanis, Norway's largest immigrant group, is about their percentage in the population.* However, by Somalis their rape percentage is 3.5 times their percentage in the population, and by Iraqis it's 10.39 times as high_​
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and Somali's and Iraqi's rape proportionately more But I find this interesting
> 
> As of 1 January 2014[update]:[22]
> 
> *Ethnic Group! Number* *Number*
> Dutch (& Frisians) 13,234,545
> Turkish (& Kurdish) 396,414
> Moroccan (& Berber) 374,996
> Indonesian (& Indo) 372,233
> Germans 368,512
> Surinamese 348,291
> Dutch Caribbean 146,855
> Polish 123,003
> Belgians 115,028
> Former Yugoslavs 82,290
> British 81,860
> Chinese 64,097
> Iraqis 54,159
> Others 1,067,056
> Total 16,829,289
> 
> I see NO Pakistani, or Iraqi's listed! UNLESS they are a smaller group than the Iraqis at 54,159 and included in OTHERS! Which, I believe makes them even MORE LIKELY to commit rape. But you may disagree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ????? What is the link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mine was Wiki demographics!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Demographics of what?  The "update" link takes me to an edit page on the Netherlands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Demographics of the Netherlands - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


Ok...how did we jump from Norway to Netherlands?  

It's getting late.  Maybe it's time to head of to bed and this will make more sense later


----------



## pismoe

and its easy , just google RAPE JIHAD in Sweden , England ,  just google SEX GANGS in the UK .  Very easy to do and I encourage all westerners to just do some 'googling' !!


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> debunked by WHO , and would I and other readers believe the DEBUNKING ??  One mans deunking is another type of lie .  But here , here is the Guardian ---  Oxford child sex abuse ring social services failed me says victim Society The Guardian  ---  I think that its a good certainly as good as your opinion Coyote !!



We were talking about Sweden's so-called rape epidemic.

The Oxford sex abuse ring is another matter and yes - authorities failed badly on that one.


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> and its easy , just google RAPE JIHAD in Sweden , England ,  just google SEX GANGS in the UK .  Very easy to do and I encourage all westerners to just do some 'googling' !!



I would encourage them to google it and read critically and look for sources and hidden agendas.

Anyone can say anything on the internet.


----------



## pismoe

the RAPE phenomena is worldwide Coyote . Netherlands , Sweden , England , Norway and just all over the place . Jihad is worldwide in the worldwide ' house of war ' Coyote !!


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## pismoe

yep, google and read carefully , check out the sources .  Check out 'house of war' and 'house of peace' as a couple more suggestions .  Checkout 'taqiyah , jizya and other Islamic concepts !!


----------



## pismoe

check out 'dhimmis and dhiminitude . Checkout the Jewish quarter or neighborhood in iran .  Check it all out , its easy using keywords and google .


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
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> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't answer anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
Click to expand...



So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?


----------



## DigitalDrifter

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
Click to expand...


Oh great, she wasn't any younger than 12 or 13 !!! LMAO !!!


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## ChrisL

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> You didn't answer anything
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> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?
Click to expand...


Who is it?


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## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> I just answered it. You don't like the answer? That's your problem.
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> You didn't answer anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
Click to expand...


CAIR intimidation.. 




> *CAIR Targets Private Citizens in Michigan for Opposing Construction of Islamic Center*
> 
> The American Freedom Law Center (AFLC) is representing seven private citizens who were issued harassing subpoenas by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) because they publicly expressed their opposition to the construction of an Islamic center in their neighborhood in Pittsfield Township, Michigan.





> In 2012, the Muslim Community Association of Ann Arbor (MCA) requested that the Township rezone a parcel of land to build an Islamic School and community center.  The Township denied the request, citing infrastructure and traffic concerns.  Nevertheless, CAIR, which bills itself as “America’s largest Muslim civil liberties and advocacy organization,” filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the Township on behalf of the MCA, alleging that the denial of the MCA’s rezoning application violated the Islamic group’s constitutional and statutory rights.
> 
> The MCA’s rezoning request was opposed by a group of Township residents who live in the neighborhood of the proposed construction.  The residents expressed concerns about the traffic congestion that would be caused by the construction of a school and community center in their neighborhood.  Pursuant to their rights protected by the First Amendment, these private citizens circulated and submitted to their elected Township officials a petition expressing their opposition to the rezoning and several of them spoke out at public hearings held by the Township to discuss the matter.  As a result, CAIR served harassing subpoenas on a number of these citizens, demanding that they produce private emails and other documents, and in some cases, appear for a deposition.





> Indeed, AFLC is representing a husband and wife who came home one day to find several papers jammed in the crack of the front door of their home.  The papers included subpoenas demanding the production of personal emails and other documents and a subpoena commanding the wife to appear at a deposition.



CAIR Targets Private Citizens in Michigan for Opposing Construction of Islamic Center American Freedom Law Center


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## ChrisL

DigitalDrifter said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh great, she wasn't any younger than 12 or 13 !!! LMAO !!!
Click to expand...


I believe she was younger than that from everything I've read about her, and I've read quite a few things, plus I think it's in their Koran too.


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## Jroc

ChrisL said:


> Jroc said:
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is it?
Click to expand...



So what do you think? Coyote should like or dislike this patriot?




> Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser is the founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, whose mission is "to provide an authentic Muslim voice advocating for the preservation of the founding principles of the U.S. constitution: liberty and freedom through the separation of mosque and state." His parents emigrated from Syria to the United States, where majority rules but minorities are protected like no other place in the world. America presents opportunities for learning an unfiltered history, expressing all opinions, questioning authority, and creating ideas without censorship—an environment Dr. Jasser believes is consistent with the Islamic faith. The democratic idea that every citizen, blind to race, faith, and creed, has equal access to government is a cure for the pathology of extremist Islam. The freedoms offered by a democratic society can be a laboratory for Muslim reform, allowing for open interpretation and debate, and thus the evolution of philosophies. Dr. Jasser considers the Muslim world currently trapped in a binary choice between Arab secular dictatorship and militant political Islam. However, he argues that there is a third option: universal liberty. Islam must be reinterpreted in modernity, which is only possible in an environment where people are free to debate and discuss it without fear of dangerous consequences. The intolerance of radical Islam is a threat to everyone, East and West, and Dr. Jasser argues, "it is incumbent on us to defeat it for our children."



Dr. Zuhdi Jasser American Islamic Forum for Democracy


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## ChrisL

There is quite a bit of information about Aisha here, and this is just one.  There are many many more which confirm that she was 6 years old when he took her from her parents and was 9 when the marriage was consummated.  

Qur an Hadith and Scholars Aisha - WikiIslam


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## ChrisL

Jroc said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think? Coyote should like or dislike this patriot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser is the founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, whose mission is "to provide an authentic Muslim voice advocating for the preservation of the founding principles of the U.S. constitution: liberty and freedom through the separation of mosque and state." His parents emigrated from Syria to the United States, where majority rules but minorities are protected like no other place in the world. America presents opportunities for learning an unfiltered history, expressing all opinions, questioning authority, and creating ideas without censorship—an environment Dr. Jasser believes is consistent with the Islamic faith. The democratic idea that every citizen, blind to race, faith, and creed, has equal access to government is a cure for the pathology of extremist Islam. The freedoms offered by a democratic society can be a laboratory for Muslim reform, allowing for open interpretation and debate, and thus the evolution of philosophies. Dr. Jasser considers the Muslim world currently trapped in a binary choice between Arab secular dictatorship and militant political Islam. However, he argues that there is a third option: universal liberty. Islam must be reinterpreted in modernity, which is only possible in an environment where people are free to debate and discuss it without fear of dangerous consequences. The intolerance of radical Islam is a threat to everyone, East and West, and Dr. Jasser argues, "it is incumbent on us to defeat it for our children."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dr. Zuhdi Jasser American Islamic Forum for Democracy
Click to expand...


He seems like an American to me.    I only watched the first 5 minutes of the video, but he seems like a logical man.  Thanks for the info!


----------



## pismoe

yeah , little I know about Zudi is that he is a good guy and he does sound like an American when I've heard him speak .   I didn't watch the featured vid but I hear him on FOX as he goes after hardcore islamists like 'cair' and other groups and individuals .  Zudi seems to be alright !!


----------



## Jroc

pismoe said:


> yeah , little I know about Zudi is that he is a good guy and he does sound like an American when I've heard him speak .   I didn't watch the featured vid but I hear him on FOX as he goes after hardcore islamists like 'cair' and other groups and individuals .  Zudi seems to be alright !!



I seems like he would be someone Coyote would like? Unless you're involved with CAIR, they don't like him much at all. I'm thinking Coyote the latter



> Dr. Jasser is a first generation American Muslim whose parents fled the oppressive Baath regime of Syria in the mid-1960’s for American freedom.  He is leading the fight to shake the hold that the Muslim Brotherhood and their network of American Islamist organizations and mosques seek to exert on organized Islam in America.
> 
> Dr. Jasser earned his medical degree on a U.S. Navy scholarship at the Medical College of Wisconsin in 1992. He served 11 years as a medical officer in the U. S. Navy.  His tours of duty included Medical Department Head aboard the U.S.S. El Paso which deployed to Somalia during Operation Restore Hope; Chief Resident at Bethesda Naval Hospital; and Staff Internist for the Office of the Attending Physician to the U. S. Congress.  He is a recipient of the Meritorious Service Medal. Dr. Jasser is a respected physician currently in private practice in Phoenix, Arizona specializing in internal medicine and nuclear cardiology.  He is a Past-President of the Arizona Medical Association.
> 
> AIFD seeks to counter political Islam the ideology that fuels radical Islamists. AIFD’s current passions include the Muslim Liberty Project (MLP) and involvement in the newly formed American Islamic Leadership Coalition (AILC). The Muslim Liberty Project seeks to instill the ideas of liberty into young Muslim adults in order to inoculate them against the viral threat of political Islam. The project brought together its first class of Muslim Youth in March 2011 with tremendous success. AILC is a broad based coalition of diverse Muslim organizations that provide a stark alternative to the domestic and global network of Islamist organizations.



Dr. Zuhdi Jasser American Islamic Forum for Democracy


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## pismoe

a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!


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## pismoe

and wait for the festival of 'ashura' to arrive in the USA , heard that the festival made  the news in a few places in the USA .  Check it out , pretty interesting to know what the 'ashura' festival and practices , demonstrations are .  See how to fit in at an 'ashura' festival !!


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## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
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> You didn't answer anything
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?
Click to expand...


I looked him up: Zuhdi Jasser - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Based on that, I would say he sounds interesting.  Some points make sense, others I disagree with, including some of his associations.


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## Coyote

pismoe said:


> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!



Seriously - what is wrong with that?

School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.

Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.


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## Coyote

Jroc said:


> ChrisL said:
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> Jroc said:
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> Coyote said:
> 
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> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think? Coyote should like or dislike this patriot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser is the founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, whose mission is "to provide an authentic Muslim voice advocating for the preservation of the founding principles of the U.S. constitution: liberty and freedom through the separation of mosque and state." His parents emigrated from Syria to the United States, where majority rules but minorities are protected like no other place in the world. America presents opportunities for learning an unfiltered history, expressing all opinions, questioning authority, and creating ideas without censorship—an environment Dr. Jasser believes is consistent with the Islamic faith. The democratic idea that every citizen, blind to race, faith, and creed, has equal access to government is a cure for the pathology of extremist Islam. The freedoms offered by a democratic society can be a laboratory for Muslim reform, allowing for open interpretation and debate, and thus the evolution of philosophies. Dr. Jasser considers the Muslim world currently trapped in a binary choice between Arab secular dictatorship and militant political Islam. However, he argues that there is a third option: universal liberty. Islam must be reinterpreted in modernity, which is only possible in an environment where people are free to debate and discuss it without fear of dangerous consequences. The intolerance of radical Islam is a threat to everyone, East and West, and Dr. Jasser argues, "it is incumbent on us to defeat it for our children."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dr. Zuhdi Jasser American Islamic Forum for Democracy
Click to expand...


_Dr. Jasser considers the Muslim world *currently trapped in a binary choice between Arab secular dictatorship and militant political Islam*. * However, he argues that there is a third option: universal liberty. Islam must be reinterpreted in modernity, which is only possible in an environment where people are free to debate and discuss it without fear of dangerous consequences*. The intolerance of *radical Islam* is a threat to everyone, East and West, and Dr. Jasser argues, "it is incumbent on us to defeat it for our children."_​I agree. So ya, I like him.  But as I said, I don't agree with everything he says or with some of his associations which I find disturbing.


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## pismoe

didn't say anything about it being wrong Coyote , just saying that its happening .  Imported people want their share and so mess things up for the Americans , well the sane Americans .  If there were none or less muslim then their needs wouldn't need to be met and they'd have holidays in their third world countries .


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> There is quite a bit of information about Aisha here, and this is just one.  There are many many more which confirm that she was 6 years old when he took her from her parents and was 9 when the marriage was consummated.
> 
> Qur an Hadith and Scholars Aisha - WikiIslam



WikiIslam is not a reputable source.


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## pismoe

when is the day off for 'ashura' coming ??


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## Coyote

pismoe said:


> didn't say anything about it being wrong Coyote , just saying that its happening .  Imported people want their share and so mess things up for the Americans , well the sane Americans .  If there were none or less muslim then their needs wouldn't need to be met and they'd have holidays in their third world countries .



I don't see how it messes things up at all.

We are a nation of immigrants from all over - always have been.  At one point, we could as easily have become primarily Dutch, or French, or Spanish but English won out.  We have communities all over that are heavily of one immigrant group - Norwegian, Russian, Lebonese, Italian...it's all American.  We have regional holidays that represent this.  My community has it's Annual Italian Heritage festival (good food too).  What's wrong with all that?  It does not mess us up, it makes us richer by far.  When I was very young we lived in India.  They have a festival called Diwali.  When I was there - everyone put out these tiny clay oil lamps - all along the balconies and rooftops and streets and they would be lit - Festival of Lights.  It was lovely, though I barely remember it.


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## Coyote

DigitalDrifter said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add this too, to show people that most of the time, even in England, people were being married in their 20s.
> 
> Myth 136 Women married very young in the olden days. History Myths Debunked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another Myth:
> Myth #3: Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage - See more at: Myth 3 Prophet Muhammad married Ayesha when she was underage Muhammad Fact Check
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh great, she wasn't any younger than 12 or 13 !!! LMAO !!!
Click to expand...


That was the norm for that time.  Mary was 12.  They'd be children today but they were adults by the standards of that era.


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## pismoe

Course muslims or their sympathizers like the flood of muslims leaving their third world he11holes and moving to the western world Coyote . Many muslims or muslim supporters throughout the world advocate for more muslims to the western world .


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## Coyote

pismoe said:


> Course muslims or their sympathizers like the flood of muslims leaving their third world he11holes and moving to the western world Coyote . Many muslims or muslim supporters throughout the world advocate for more muslims to the western world .



I'm open to any religious or ethnic immigrants as long as they aren't criminals, follow our laws and desire to work hard and make a life for themselves here.

Some of my ancestors came from "thirdworld hellholes" by the standards of their time.


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## pismoe

we've already been through that ' obey the law ' thing Coyote .  Many muslim imports don't obey the laws , work to change the laws and customs of the western world .  No reason to import them as far as i'm concerned .


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## pismoe

REPEAT -- but see 'female g.m.' in Europe , the USA and other parts of the western world .  Repeat , See the muslim pedophile gangs in England and see the rape war by jihad and muslim rape gangs in the western world for some insight .


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## pismoe

and look at the level of civilization that they have brought to their he11holes in the last 6000 years .  Compare those he11holes with the advanced state of Israel that has only been around since 1948 .


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## pismoe

and muslims been around since about 700 AD and what have they achieved except for invasion , conquest and death Coyote !!   Invasion of spain , almost france and the list goes on and on .  And many muslims want to destroy the best in that desert , namely Israel !!


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## pismoe

Westerners though , look at what they have built .   Look in Europe , Australia , England and the best when you look at the USA . About 200 years as an independent contry and the USA had men walking on the moon .


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## idb

pismoe said:


> Westerners though , look at what they have built .   Look in Europe , Australia , England and the best when you look at the USA . About 200 years as an independent contry and the USA had men walking on the moon .


Read up on some real history to understand how Islam helped to pull the West out of the Dark Ages.


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## pismoe

not talking anything but modern western world mrobama .  Not talking about the Christian Crusaders or the Inquisition either mrobama --- err , I mean 'idb' .  I'm talking about the here and NOW 'idb' !!


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## pismoe

because hey , I know the history and all I say is Big Deal .  Might be a big deal if you live on the past though idb !!   You may suffer from Past glories and dreams I suppose !!


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## idb

pismoe said:


> not talking anything but modern western world mrobama .  Not talking about the Christian Crusaders or the Inquisition either mrobama --- err , I mean 'idb' .  I'm talking about the here and NOW 'idb' !!


Didn't you write this?


> and muslims been around since about 700 AD and what have they achieved except for invasion , conquest and death


You were going back to 700AD two posts ago...now you've re-jigged the timeline to last Wednesday?
That's some mighty fast goalpost shifting going on right there...you must be tired from your exertions.


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## pismoe

like I said , big deal ibd .  The majority of their work has been death , destruction and conquest .   Ol' Vlad put them in their place as did the USA in Tripoli .  Looks like it might be time to do it again .


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## pismoe

no exertion 'idb' , this thread is good for teaching and learning how muslims or their sympathizers think and work [good for me and maybe others] .  I'm glad that its still going on so others can read a maybe learn .   Looks like the other , Coyote took the break and you stepped in .


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## Coyote

pismoe said:


> and muslims been around since about 700 AD and what have they achieved except for invasion , conquest and death Coyote !!  * Invasion of spain , almost france* and the list goes on and on .  And many muslims want to destroy the best in that desert , namely Israel !!



Seriously now?  If you're going to go dig out history, then the Christians invaded and subjegated much of the world too - and it wasn't any too gentle.

If you're talking ancient history, Muslim far exceeded primitive Christians in the sciences and medicine.

Modern inventions are built upon more ancient ones.

It's all interrelated.


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## Coyote

pismoe said:


> we've already been through that ' obey the law ' thing Coyote .  *Many muslim imports don't obey the laws , work to change the laws and customs of the western world* .  No reason to import them as far as i'm concerned .



You were unable to provide any relevant examples to support your claim beyond a few whackos.


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## pismoe

rape epidemic in parts of Europe , grooming of little girls by imported pedophile gangs in England , shootings in think it was Demark a few weeks ago by an imported jihadi .   Theo van gogh stabbing by a jihadi , beheading of soldier on the streets of London by a jihadi .  Yahzidi women and young girls raped , some murdered by jihadis that sell them as sex slaves .  Chiristians all lined up in a row and beheaded on a beach by jihadis , think it was Libya .   Ben Ghazi where the USA ambassador to Libya , Chris Stevens was killed . And that's all fairly recent and not counting the bombing of the USN ship 'Cole' , the 'achille lauro ' , the trade towers in 2 attempts to level them , second attempt being successful .  Riots in MALMO and the list goes on and on for centuries Coyote !!   Good to see you back , I thought that the thread was dead when 'idb' took off .


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## pismoe

yeah , you and mrobama and islam built it ALL ehh Coyote .  Then why are most of your countries third world he11holes in 2015 and have been for a long , long time .    And Israel , only in existence since 1948 and they made the desert bloom .


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## idb

pismoe said:


> yeah , you and mrobama and islam built it ALL ehh Coyote .  Then why are most of your countries third world he11holes in 2015 and have been for a long , long time .    And Israel , only in existence since 1948 and they made the desert bloom .


1/ Because they are third world countries.
2/ Do you not think that the billions that the US pumps into Israel might have something to do with their success?


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## pismoe

and more in England , think that it is NEW news .  ---  Sex Gangs May Have Abused Hundreds Of Girls  ---


----------



## boedicca

I doubt that Jefferson would have supported Militant Islam and the replacing of U.S. rule of law with Sharia.

Just sayin'.


----------



## pismoe

sure 'idb' some of the money that the Israelis got is my money sent to the Israelis .  Course the Israelis have no natural resource like the muslim countries have .  I speak of 'oil' and I hear that there are lots of rich shieks that spend the oil money on trinkets rather than put the billions into their countries infrastructure .


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> sure 'idb' some of the money that the Israelis got is my money sent to the Israelis .  Course the Israelis have no natural resource like the muslim countries have .  I speak of 'oil' and I hear that there are lots of rich shieks that spend the oil money on trinkets rather than put the billions into their countries infrastructure .


Have you thought about the Arab countries with money that aren't 'hellholes'?
Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait...


----------



## pismoe

no , don't know much about them 'idb' because I don't think that they cause much problem inside  the USA and the west so they are mostly low key I think .  Mostly I think that the ones you mention don't flood the USA as third world jihadis and they , as individuals just drink beer , go to strip joints , porno shops and spend money .  Saudis in particular are said to like a good time as they spend lots of money when they get rid of the robes and headgear . Think that Dubai builds some nice islands but I might be mistaken about it being Dubai .   Also hear that the manmade islands are sinking .


----------



## acludem

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams both owned copies of the Qu'ran and both read them.  They even discussed it in some of the letters they wrote to each other.  When discussing Islam in the context of U.S. History one should not forget that many of the Africans who were captured and enslaved were Muslim.  They were often forced to convert to Christianity by slave owners who felt threatened by slaves having their own religion.  Islam has been in the Americas since well before the U.S. came about.


----------



## pismoe

Kuwait might be all right , I know that the USA rescued them in the 1992 war as Iraqi army was retreating from Kuwait on the American built ' highway of death' .


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> no , don't know much about them 'idb' because I don't think that they cause much problem inside  the USA and the west so they are mostly low key I think .  Mostly I think that the ones you mention don't flood the USA as third world jihadis and they , as individuals just drink beer , go to strip joints , porno shops and spend money .  Saudis in particular are said to like a good time as they spend lots of money when they get rid of the robes and headgear . Think that Dubai builds some nice islands but I might be mistaken about it being Dubai .   Also hear that the manmade islands are sinking .


So, in other words, you are walking back your point about all Arab countries being hell holes despite their oil money.
You're really just forming your arguments on the fly aren't you?
You have no linear narrative from post to post.


----------



## idb

acludem said:


> Thomas Jefferson and John Adams both owned copies of the Qu'ran and both read them.  They even discussed it in some of the letters they wrote to each other.  When discussing Islam in the context of U.S. History one should not forget that many of the Africans who were captured and enslaved were Muslim.  They were often forced to convert to Christianity by slave owners who felt threatened by slaves having their own religion.  Islam has been in the Americas since well before the U.S. came about.


Of course it has, but that thought just offends the simpletons that can't think beyond last night's news headlines.


----------



## pismoe

Winston Churchill also knew the Koran , he didn't like islam , he wrote a book , think it was called 'the river war'  'acludem' .  Lots of those slaves that were sold and made Christian were probably muslim slaves and only muslim because they got a better deal , food , conditions because they claimed to be muslim .  USA first war was against the muslim state of Algeria I think . Yeah , Jefferson and Adams  read a lot , probably also read the 'satanic bible' if it existed in their times .


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> Winston Churchill also knew the Koran , he didn't like islam , he wrote a book , think it was called 'the river war'  'acludem' .  Lots of those slaves that were sold and made Christian were probably muslim slaves and only muslim because they got a better deal , food , conditions because they claimed to be muslim .  USA first war was against the muslim state of Algeria I think . Yeah , Jefferson and Adams  read a lot , probably also read the 'satanic bible' if it existed in their times .


'Probably'


----------



## pismoe

not walking anything back 'idb' , he11 , the rich Saudis muslims don't seem to be very moral people when they lose their robes and headgear as they buy loose women and drink beer and view porn here in the USA .  They seem like snakes in my opinion , shifty and untrustworthy but they don't seem to be the jihadis that are causing most of the mayhem in the western world like England or Boston USA .   And the Kuwaitis don't seem very adept at engineering if their manmade islands are sinking .


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I looked him up: Zuhdi Jasser - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Based on that, I would say he sounds interesting.  Some points make sense, others I disagree with, including some of his associations.
Click to expand...



Yeah like you've never hear of him before


----------



## idb

pismoe said:


> not walking anything back 'idb' , he11 , the rich Saudis muslims don't seem to be very moral people when they lose their robes and headgear as they buy loose women and drink beer and view porn here in the USA .  They seem like snakes in my opinion , shifty and untrustworthy but they don't seem to be the jihadis that are causing most of the mayhem in the western world like England or Boston USA .   And the Kuwaitis don't seem very adept at engineering if their manmade islands are sinking .


Good grief...you're just spraying everywhere.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
Click to expand...


What about Easter?  

I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.


----------



## ChrisL

idb said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Westerners though , look at what they have built .   Look in Europe , Australia , England and the best when you look at the USA . About 200 years as an independent contry and the USA had men walking on the moon .
> 
> 
> 
> Read up on some real history to understand how Islam helped to pull the West out of the Dark Ages.
Click to expand...


And what have they done for us lately?


----------



## idb

ChrisL said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Westerners though , look at what they have built .   Look in Europe , Australia , England and the best when you look at the USA . About 200 years as an independent contry and the USA had men walking on the moon .
> 
> 
> 
> Read up on some real history to understand how Islam helped to pull the West out of the Dark Ages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what have they done for us lately?
Click to expand...

I didn't know that they had to do something for 'us'.
By 'us I assume you mean 'The West'?


----------



## pismoe

spraying everywhere , just stating facts 'idb' . And as far as whats the west done , well the west , USA in particular has provided a place for me and my family , friends , and general USA populace to live and prosper .  It'd be far different , especially for women in most muslim lands .


----------



## pismoe

and as regards holidays and how many more can be afforded , no problem as they just make a new holiday and get rid or replace an old Christion , American or Traditional holiday .  Pretty easy actually , if the holiday maker has a pen .


----------



## pismoe

replace Thanksgiving with 'celebrate immigrants day' , easy when you have a pen !!   ---  White House Task Force Wants Obama to Change Thanksgiving to Celebrate Immigrants Day via Executive Order Restoring Liberty  ---  think its factual .


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is that supposed to show?
> *Where is there support amongst American muslims for subjugating America to Islam?*
> 
> Demonstrations? Movements? Polls?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shows the movement of the muslim botherhood of which you may be a part of CAIR ect... People are afraid to criticize muslim radicals for fear of offending. You yourself push that narrative. Which is why i continue to believe you a part of that movement as a mouth piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok.  Essentially you are saying that No - you can provide any actual data to support your claims beyond some vague conspiracy theory bullcrap?  Oh, and more monkey poo.    You never run out do you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So what do you think of  Zuhdi Jasser? No opinion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I looked him up: Zuhdi Jasser - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Based on that, I would say he sounds interesting.  Some points make sense, others I disagree with, including some of his associations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah like you've never hear of him before
Click to expand...


Actually I haven't.


----------



## Coyote

boedicca said:


> I doubt that Jefferson would have supported Militant Islam and the replacing of U.S. rule of law with Sharia.
> 
> Just sayin'.



He supported religious pluralism and specifically used Islam as a test case.

I have not heard any Americans calling for replacing US law with Sharia.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
Click to expand...


Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.

We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?


----------



## pismoe

wouldn't have been a problem except for importation of third worlders of a different religion and that's been my point all along Coyote !


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> wouldn't have been a problem except for importation of third worlders of a different religion and that's been my point all along Coyote !



So, you're saying cease importing Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Sikhs and other non-Christian faiths so they don't pollute our Holiday schedule?


----------



## pismoe

ignored link so a repost  / repeat is ok , imo !!  ---   White House Task Force Wants Obama to Change Thanksgiving to Celebrate Immigrants Day via Executive Order Restoring Liberty  ---


----------



## pismoe

be ok with me , or reduce the numbers of imports that will only push for changes , course I advocate a complete end to all immigration of everyone . Less imports and the fewer the better as the FEW will blend into America and become Americans rather than push un-American points of view Coyote .


----------



## Coyote

pismoe said:


> be ok with me , or reduce the numbers of imports that will only push for changes , course I advocate a complete end to all immigration of everyone . Less imports and the fewer the better as they will blend into America and become Americans rather than push un-American points of view Coyote .



What is an "un-American" point of view and who determines it?


----------



## Coyote

Immigrants have changed us since America was formed.

You going to reverse all that progress or just halt it?


----------



## Jroc

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
Click to expand...



None of them are observed anymore they are called winter break, spring break ect...no Easter or Christmas. When I was in Jr high I played french horn in the Christmas concert and I'm a Jew!!.... the horror of it all!!


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> Immigrants have changed us since America was formed.
> 
> You going to reverse all that progress or just halt it?



I definitely think we need to be more careful with who we allow to just come into the country.  It's very dangerous times.  Why should we risk our security for immigrants?


----------



## jon_berzerk

the first thing the Muslims help create in the Untied States 

was the navy 

the navy Jefferson built to *kick Muslim ass* in the Barbary wars 

 so important that the second line of the Marine Hymn was dedicated to that *ass kicking *


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
Click to expand...


Well, because the kids need to spend a certain amount of time in school.  School is about learning, not holidays!  If we let everyone have their holidays observed, that would take away from time in school and learning, which is important to our future as a country.  I'm sorry, but I am more concerned about my country and having educated children than appeasing people.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because the kids need to spend a certain amount of time in school.  School is about learning, not holidays!  If we let everyone have their holidays observed, that would take away from time in school and learning, which is important to our future as a country.  I'm sorry, but I am more concerned about my country and having educated children than appeasing people.
Click to expand...


Then cancel all religious holidays 

Thing is - for the devout, the parents will likely not have the kids in school on those days anyway.


----------



## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigrants have changed us since America was formed.
> 
> You going to reverse all that progress or just halt it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely think we need to be more careful with who we allow to just come into the country.  It's very dangerous times.  Why should we risk our security for immigrants?
Click to expand...


Because we ARE immigrants.

We don't let in criminals.  That should be sufficient.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because the kids need to spend a certain amount of time in school.  School is about learning, not holidays!  If we let everyone have their holidays observed, that would take away from time in school and learning, which is important to our future as a country.  I'm sorry, but I am more concerned about my country and having educated children than appeasing people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then cancel all religious holidays
> 
> Thing is - for the devout, the parents will likely not have the kids in school on those days anyway.
Click to expand...


I think we have plenty of federally recognized holidays.  If immigrant parents want to keep their children out of school for their own special holidays, those should be excused absences for those children.


----------



## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigrants have changed us since America was formed.
> 
> You going to reverse all that progress or just halt it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely think we need to be more careful with who we allow to just come into the country.  It's very dangerous times.  Why should we risk our security for immigrants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because we ARE immigrants.
> 
> We don't let in criminals.  That should be sufficient.
Click to expand...


No, I was born and raised in this country.  I am not an immigrant.


----------



## Coyote

Jroc said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> a little more change to 'ny' city .  ---  NYC schools adding 2 Muslim holidays to calendar New York Post  ---   just some info !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> None of them are observed anymore they are called winter break, spring break ect...no Easter or Christmas. When I was in Jr high I played french horn in the Christmas concert and I'm a Jew!!.... the horror of it all!!
Click to expand...


Ya, they did neuter the holidays.  We had Christmas break and Easter break.  But interestingly - we do have Good Friday off and it's called just that.


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> Coyote said:
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> ChrisL said:
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> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - what is wrong with that?
> 
> School holidays are very regionally decided and influenced by the local demographics.  In areas where there are a lot of Muslim families, adding those Holidays make sense.  I work at a state university.  Holidays are set by the state, and counties or insitutions can also set aside some holidays as "Days of Special Concern".  Our state only has Good Friday and Christmas as state wide religious holidays.  It makes sense, we do not have substantial Muslim, Jewish or other religious communities.  But our schools list some of their holidays as "days of special concern" whereby teachers should be sensitive (not punative) to students being absent.
> 
> Schools are driven by the needs of their neighborhood.  That is not a bad thing.  Expanding it to include other faiths is part of what it means to be American.  Here is an article on an attempt to include Diwali as a recognized Holiday.  It makes sense. * It hurts no one*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because the kids need to spend a certain amount of time in school.  School is about learning, not holidays!  If we let everyone have their holidays observed, that would take away from time in school and learning, which is important to our future as a country.  I'm sorry, but I am more concerned about my country and having educated children than appeasing people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then cancel all religious holidays
> 
> Thing is - for the devout, the parents will likely not have the kids in school on those days anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we have plenty of federally recognized holidays.  If immigrant parents want to keep their children out of school for their own special holidays, those should be excused absences for those children.
Click to expand...


Umh....it's not just "immigrant parents".  It's Americans who have been here for generations.

In general, I think it's fine to have them as excused absences (we have them as "days of special concern").  But I also see no problem incorporating other religious holidays in areas where there are a lot of people of a particular religion, just as I don't see a problem with having Christmas as a holiday.  It's respecting those communities.


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigrants have changed us since America was formed.
> 
> You going to reverse all that progress or just halt it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely think we need to be more careful with who we allow to just come into the country.  It's very dangerous times.  Why should we risk our security for immigrants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because we ARE immigrants.
> 
> We don't let in criminals.  That should be sufficient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I was born and raised in this country.  I am not an immigrant.
Click to expand...


Ah...so, because our parents, grandparents and other assorted forbears made it here, in dangerous times, we must slam the door on any one else?  Thumb our noses like the French K-nits and say ptthhhhww - you are not wanted here!

No...Americans are immigrants.  We are a patchwork of peoples.  I think it's our strength.  Immigrants are the ones most desperate to make it and succeed and they have, where others are complacent.


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## pismoe

yep , no immigrant here , 100 percent native for me , wife and kids .


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## pismoe

you sound just like that lefty that did the poem on the 'statue of liberty' Coyote , forget her name .


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## jon_berzerk

same here in fact that is how we filled in the census 

native american

they came back several times and tried to force us into changing it 

--LOL


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## pismoe

yeah , emma lazurus , old leftie lady and the poem an add on to the statue .  All emotion and nothing else .


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## jon_berzerk

it is insane  to let whoever cross the border willy nilly


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## Coyote

pismoe said:


> you sound just like that lefty that did the poem on the 'statue of liberty' Coyote , forget her name .



Emma Lazarus

_"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"_

She was an interesting woman, and a talented writer.


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## pismoe

well , emma was at least an old lefty  !!


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## pismoe

Norway has been doing practical good work according to this article .  ---  Norway deports record number of immigrants - The Local  ---   Lets hope that the USA is inspired !!


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Coyote said:
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> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about Easter?
> 
> I don't really have a problem with it, but geez how many more holidays can the schools afford. Also, what if someone is an atheist and they want their children to have winter solstice?  What if someone is a Hindu and wants their holidays recognized, same with every other religious denomination.  We cannot please everyone.  We cannot twist and contort our system to appease all of these people and their religious beliefs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because the kids need to spend a certain amount of time in school.  School is about learning, not holidays!  If we let everyone have their holidays observed, that would take away from time in school and learning, which is important to our future as a country.  I'm sorry, but I am more concerned about my country and having educated children than appeasing people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then cancel all religious holidays
> 
> Thing is - for the devout, the parents will likely not have the kids in school on those days anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we have plenty of federally recognized holidays.  If immigrant parents want to keep their children out of school for their own special holidays, those should be excused absences for those children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Umh....it's not just "immigrant parents".  It's Americans who have been here for generations.
> 
> In general, I think it's fine to have them as excused absences (we have them as "days of special concern").  But I also see no problem incorporating other religious holidays in areas where there are a lot of people of a particular religion, just as I don't see a problem with having Christmas as a holiday.  It's respecting those communities.
Click to expand...


No it's not.  You are not an immigrant if you were born in this country legally.  

There is a problem with it, we have to limit the amount of holidays that the children take off during the school year because it interferes with education which is more important and is what school is for.  School isn't about appeasing people.  We have the national federal holidays that we do because the MAJORITY celebrates them.


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> you sound just like that lefty that did the poem on the 'statue of liberty' Coyote , forget her name .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Emma Lazarus
> 
> _"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
> With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
> Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
> I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"_
> 
> She was an interesting woman, and a talented writer.
Click to expand...


That was a LONG time ago, Coyote.  Things have changed immensely since then.


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## ChrisL

Coyote said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Coyote said:
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> 
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> 
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> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Immigrants have changed us since America was formed.
> 
> You going to reverse all that progress or just halt it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely think we need to be more careful with who we allow to just come into the country.  It's very dangerous times.  Why should we risk our security for immigrants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because we ARE immigrants.
> 
> We don't let in criminals.  That should be sufficient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I was born and raised in this country.  I am not an immigrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah...so, because our parents, grandparents and other assorted forbears made it here, in dangerous times, we must slam the door on any one else?  Thumb our noses like the French K-nits and say ptthhhhww - you are not wanted here!
> 
> No...Americans are immigrants.  We are a patchwork of peoples.  I think it's our strength.  Immigrants are the ones most desperate to make it and succeed and they have, where others are complacent.
Click to expand...


No, we are not immigrants.  And yes, we should do that.  If an immigrant has something to offer America, then fine.  If not, then no.


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## ChrisL

im·mi·grant
ˈiməɡrənt/
_noun_

a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.
synonyms: newcomer, settler, migrant, emigrant; More

BIOLOGY
an animal or plant living or growing in a region to which it has migrated.


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## pismoe

been a longtime in the making Chris , started with the 'emma lazurus' lie that has brainwashed a couple generations of publically schooled people that emotionally push for immigrantion .    Then then real push came after or around the 'lbj' administration .  'dead kennedy' had a lot to do with it , I was just a kid and my earliest realization that something was up was in the very early 70s but like I say , I was a kid , mostly interested in beer and motorcycles !!


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## Coyote

ChrisL said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Easter is Sunday, so it's a day off anyway.  Community demographics should determine local holidays.
> 
> We can not insist that only Christian religious days be honored, and if there are sufficient numbers of people who follow another religion - why not?  Who says only Christians holidays can be observed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because the kids need to spend a certain amount of time in school.  School is about learning, not holidays!  If we let everyone have their holidays observed, that would take away from time in school and learning, which is important to our future as a country.  I'm sorry, but I am more concerned about my country and having educated children than appeasing people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then cancel all religious holidays
> 
> Thing is - for the devout, the parents will likely not have the kids in school on those days anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think we have plenty of federally recognized holidays.  If immigrant parents want to keep their children out of school for their own special holidays, those should be excused absences for those children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Umh....it's not just "immigrant parents".  It's Americans who have been here for generations.
> 
> In general, I think it's fine to have them as excused absences (we have them as "days of special concern").  But I also see no problem incorporating other religious holidays in areas where there are a lot of people of a particular religion, just as I don't see a problem with having Christmas as a holiday.  It's respecting those communities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it's not.  You are not an immigrant if you were born in this country legally.
> 
> There is a problem with it, we have to limit the amount of holidays that the children take off during the school year because it interferes with education which is more important and is what school is for.  School isn't about appeasing people.  We have the national federal holidays that we do because the MAJORITY celebrates them.
Click to expand...


Immigrants are here legally unless they entered illegally.  There is no difference between me -a descendent of immigrants and newly arrived immigrants.  We are Americans.

And if a MAJORITY of the people in a particular district celebrate a non-Christian holiday, then what is wrong with adding it to that districts calendar?  If days are such an issue, remove a Christian holiday.


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## pismoe

illegals should be deported and immigration stopped Coyote !!    USA doesn't owe any immigrants the favor of immigration to the USA .


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## pismoe

heres some of that 'old time religion ' at work wowing the crowds ---   ISIS pictures show another thief having his hand publicly hacked off Daily Mail Online  ---   daiy mail article , get to know those that might be immigrating to the USA and a location near YOU !!


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## pismoe

archeological information , I always wanted to be an Archeologist .   --- BBC News - Nimrud Outcry as IS bulldozers attack ancient Iraq site  ---  I was interested in old Egypt at a very early age then moved on to the Mayas , Incas , Aztecs and learned a lot about them .  Course , looks like lots of middle east history is being destroyed .  I don't really care , just posted to show the 'jihadi' at work .


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