# Fears for Obama's safety as healthcare debate fuels extremism



## Political Junky (Aug 16, 2009)

Fears for Barack Obama's safety as healthcare debate fuels extremism | World news | The Observer

Fears for Barack Obama's safety as healthcare debate fuels extremism
As storm over Barack Obama's healthcare reforms rages, *surge in rightwing extremism is fanned by opponents*

Paul Harris in New York
The Observer,	 Sunday 16 August 2009
The message was clear. *The sign carried by a 51-year-old man last week outside a raucous town hall meeting on healthcare in Hagerstown, Maryland, read "Death to Obama".* Just to emphasise his point, a second message was also scrawled on the cardboard placard. *"Death to Obama, Michelle and 2 stupid kids," it stated.*

*Welcome to the disturbing new face of the radical right in America.* Across the country, extremism is surging, inflamed by conservative talkshow hosts, encouraged by Republican leaders and propagating a series of wild conspiracy theories. Many fear it might end in tragedy.

Obama has been labelled as a threat to democracy and an anti-white racist by senior presenters on the TV channel Fox News. Republicans, seizing on the fierce debate over Obama's plans to reform healthcare, have called him a socialist who plans "death panels" for the elderly. Rumours have circulated that Obama was not born in America and that he plans to ban firearms. Despite having no basis in fact, they have become widely believed. A recent poll in Virginia showed only 53% of voters believed Obama was born in the US. In neighbouring North Carolina, 54% of voters shared that opinion.

Such extremism is becoming a major security issue, prompting fears of an attack on Obama's life or some other incident of domestic terrorism. "This is a very dangerous situation that can spin off 'lone wolf' individuals who decide now is the time to act against people they see as an enemy," said Chip Berlet, author of a book on rightwing extremists.

Federal authorities have launched a programme to try to detect any individuals who might be planning rightwing attacks similar to those that in recent months have killed a Kansas abortion doctor and a black security guard at Washington DC's Holocaust Museum.

...

Some were more worried, however, by the sign that Kostric carried which referred to a *Thomas Jefferson quote about refreshing the "tree of liberty" with the blood of patriots. That was the same quote on a T-shirt McVeigh was wearing when he was arrested.*

*Edited for Copyright policy - KK*


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> The message was clear. The sign carried by a 51-year-old man last week outside a raucous town hall meeting on healthcare in Hagerstown, Maryland, read "Death to Obama". Just to emphasise his point, a second message was also scrawled on the cardboard placard. "Death to Obama, Michelle and 2 stupid kids," it stated.




That assclown hillbilly deliverance fuck is in my congressional district. Camp David is also in this county. His ass should have been hauled out in cuffs. Disgusting. Good thing I didn't go. Might have been trouble.


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## Diuretic (Aug 16, 2009)

Not a good look is it?


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## Avatar4321 (Aug 16, 2009)

So you guys on the left talk about Killing Bush for 8 years. You write books about assasinating him. You make movies about it. and its perfectly alright.

But one person holds a sign suggesting it with Obama, and the whole right of the country is evil.

Got ya.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

if people don't think something is going to happen they are living in fantasy land. No president has had has many death threats as he has and that was before health care reform.
Someone is going to either attempt to kill Obama or they are going to bomb something and instead of writing their congressman or discussing things rationally some these wackos are going to far. It is fine not to agree with Obama and I think most be on the right are being mature about this but it is another to make threats.
The Aryan Nation here is started to get organized again electing a new leader and passing out flyers. If I was Obama I would not step foot in Northern Idaho or Eastern Washington.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Avatar4321 said:


> So you guys on the left talk about Killing Bush for 8 years. You write books about assasinating him. You make movies about it. and its perfectly alright.
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> But one person holds a sign suggesting it with Obama, and the whole right of the country is evil.
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> Got ya.


I don't remember the left making a movie about assasinating Bush.
And there are crazies about both side usually the people who do these things do not classify themselves as democrat or republican, they hate the government as a hole.
And most of us realize that these people don't represent the majority of the right. So why don't you be mature about this and realize no matter who they are threatening these people are wrong in doing so.
And there is been more then just one sign.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> if people don't think something is going to happen they are living in fantasy land.* No president has had has many death threats *as he has and that was before health care reform.
> Someone is going to either attempt to kill Obama or they are going to bomb something and instead of writing their congressman or discussing things rationally some these wackos are going to far. It is fine not to agree with Obama and I think most be on the right are being mature about this but it is another to make threats.
> The Aryan Nation here is started to get organized again electing a new leader and passing out flyers. If I was Obama I would not step foot in Northern Idaho or Eastern Washington.



I bolded the part that's wrong. The correct way to say it is "no president has sensationalized the death threats as much" ...


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

and no matter if you agree with Obama people should not go along with this crap. He is still our President and by threatening him or agreeing with the people who threaten him you are disgracing our country and democracy.


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

Avatar4321 said:


> So you guys on the left talk about Killing Bush for 8 years. You write books about assasinating him. You make movies about it. and its perfectly alright.
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> But one person holds a sign suggesting it with Obama, and the whole right of the country is evil.
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> Got ya.




You're a nitwit.


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## Diuretic (Aug 16, 2009)

Avatar4321 said:


> So you guys on the left talk about Killing Bush for 8 years. You write books about assasinating him. You make movies about it. and its perfectly alright.
> 
> But one person holds a sign suggesting it with Obama, and the whole right of the country is evil.
> 
> Got ya.



Very general assertions as opposed to specific examples of right wing nutbar behaviour.

The film - Death of a President (2006)


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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because I have heard him personally talk about it> yeah right!
And your idiot if you don't think he has recieved more death threat then any other President.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> and no matter if you agree with Obama people should not go along with this crap. He is still our President and by threatening him or agreeing with the people who threaten him you are disgracing our country and democracy.



Here's the thing, he is milking it, what he is "going through" is no worse or different than any of the others, he just airs it for more attention. This is why I didn't like him in the first place, he's a publicity junky and is more interested in getting attention from people than doing a good job. He won the election because of cornering the advertising online and being a pretty face, nothing more. As I have stated since I knew he was running, he's a failed American Idol star and fan ... nothing more.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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Seriously? No he hasn't, he just airs them more than any other president, he's a media monger.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

google Aryan Nation and check out their websites and what they have to say about Obama and then shut your mouth.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> google Aryan Nation and check out their websites and what they have to say about Obama and then shut your mouth.



Look at what the Black Panthers have said about other presidents ... it is you who is being naive.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

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why would we have the largest security detail of any President?
Wake up, he is black and there are alot of people in this country who are still biggots and complete nutjobs.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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No, it's because he's feeding off the media attention, trying to make all his opponents look bad, it's an old tactic, I need not say who used it the most. Also, of course it would be larger than previous ones, each president gets more security every new term, it's been a progression since even before JFK.


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## Diuretic (Aug 16, 2009)

Check out Stormfront if you want to see some real nutters.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

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Not that I'd be surprised if it were true, but do you have a source for this assertion?


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Check out Stormfront if you want to see some real nutters.



Nutters have been around a looooong time ... and they really are no more of a danger than when they first appeared.  They're just idiots.


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


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> > and no matter if you agree with Obama people should not go along with this crap. He is still our President and by threatening him or agreeing with the people who threaten him you are disgracing our country and democracy.
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When you graduate from Harvard Magna cum Laude then we can discuss how you failed. But alas I fear it is too late. There isn't enough time for you to catch up, you're inherently too slow. [my assessment from reading your latest posts, especially the ones to do with solar, you're way off the mark] He's definitely a force to be reckoned with; one doesn't have to like his policies to recognize that. You're on the interwebz kibbitzing, he's the POTUS. 

I didn't particularly care for the path Rummy took, but I recognized he was brilliant and way ahead of the shrub and Cheney. None of them could even lick his boots. Gotta give cred where it is due, otherwise you won't have any cred yourself.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


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Wow ... you really think it takes that much brains to see what a media whore he is? The really sad thing is that you make an assertion like that without knowing a bit about me or even what I do for a living, n00b.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

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Oh snap, now you done it. Mr V _hates_ being called a n00b. We're supposed to just take him seriously, damn it, c'mon KK where's your welcome wagon?


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

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google death threats on the president and you will find many articles that state he gets 30 death threats a day and death threats are up 400% since Bush. He also got a secret service detail earlier then any other candidate ever.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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I take it out past the front door.  I am wondering if he even understands the difference between a n00b and a newby ... without Googling it that is.

You also know my complaint about "higher educated morons" and why, he doesn't ... wonder if he will catch on soon enough?


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

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I'm not here to do your homework. Your assertion, your burden of proof.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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What part of "media whore" do you not get?


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Zulu shaman for-sees DEATH for Obama
The Zulu shaman, or Sansui, Credo Mutwa, has written a poem to express his thoughts on what he sees as the true nature of Barack Obama and the agenda for Africa and the world that he represents. 



"An actor walks upon the floodlit stage of life 
wearing a mask of an angel beneath a demon's gown. 
Pretence smiles upon the crowded hall of life 
holding out hope as bright as it is false. 
Son of a woman in whose veins flows the blood 
of ancient Ireland and dark Africa&#8217;s plains. 

You are Obama, nick-named the standing king 
You are Barack, oh, son born to deceive
The suffering hoards of Africa look up to you, 

See a black saviour where nought but a Judas strides.
An entrapper of nations, bringer of dismal war 
Behind the robes and the nylon wings of hope 
Oh, may those who look upon you, see you as you are. 

May those who hope in you behold you as you be
A prince deceitful to bring down Africa&#8217;s shrines
A siren who leads Africa&#8217;s ships onto rocks of obliteration.
Your rule my lord will not be one of peace 
Your reign my king will not be one of smiles 
Even as we speak in caves both dark and dank 
Enraged fanatics plot your dark demise
They will put around your head a bloodwet martyr&#8217;s crown.

Oh black Kennedy following the one before 
May God forgive thee and thy fiery spouse
As you walk in silence from the stage of life 
Barack Obama, blessed son, Oh standing king." 

Credo Mutwa 
Aryan Nations - Official Site


And it isn't just Obama talking about a possible assasination!


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> Wow ... you really think it takes that much brains to see what a media whore he is? The really sad thing is that you make an assertion like that without knowing a bit about me or even what I do for a living, n00b.




I assume you don't hold public office. Feel free to disabuse me of that notion if I am incorrect.




> Oh snap, now you done it. Mr V hates being called a n00b. We're supposed to just take him seriously, damn it, c'mon KK where's your welcome wagon?




I don't care what you call me. I am a she, if it matters, not that I think it does. But it does provide some insight into your thought processes.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

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And I don't really give a shit what you think. If you can't take two seconds to do your own homework instead of going off someone else's word then that is your problem. Plus I am tired and don't really want to post thirty links.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

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I could give a shit if he is a media whore or not, doesn't mean it isn't true.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > Wow ... you really think it takes that much brains to see what a media whore he is? The really sad thing is that you make an assertion like that without knowing a bit about me or even what I do for a living, n00b.
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No, I don't like the government for a good reason. 

You are a n00b ... and I have the learning curve to call you that.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > Wow ... you really think it takes that much brains to see what a media whore he is? The really sad thing is that you make an assertion like that without knowing a bit about me or even what I do for a living, n00b.
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Yes, it sheds light on the day I was taught that when gender is unknown to use male pronouns. That's how the English language is supposed to work last time I checked. And if it didn't matter to you you won't have brought it up. Passive aggressive FAIL.


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

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Media whore? What was Bush? Media hermit? Frankly, I think Bush was too reticent. His delivery was odd to say the least. This is the media age. Media whoring is the norm now. It has been since we got television. Reagan wasn't exactly a shrinking violet. You have to have something better than "media whore" up your sleeve. It doesn't make the grade.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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Which proves my point ... it doesn't mean it *is* true. Sensationalism is just that, they hype the numbers and information for media attention. The only difference is now most of them are through email directly to his box, instead of being tossed by those who check the written letters. The reality of it, being president is a huge bullseye painted on your back, no matter who you are.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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Bush was just an ugly moron.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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because hes fucking paranoid?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Diuretic said:


> Check out Stormfront if you want to see some real nutters.


LOL and how about all those assholes on the left taking about killing bush?


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> The only difference is now most of them are through email directly to his box, instead of being tossed by those who check the written letters.



That's not how the Secret Service handles letters or emails. They check and save every bit of it. Nothing is tossed. Not even for presidents that are now dead. They have it all. And nobody without NTN clearance has his direct email. The computers are all tempested and encrypted as is his Blackberry which is on a private encryption system and not the ones used by regular people.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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WOW
appeal to authority

that is a massive fail that anything in your education makes you any more believable than any one else here
you can claim anything on a message board, that doesnt make it true


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


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Clearly those don't count, DC. That would have been a righteous kill. Surely you must know by now that libs only do/suggest things that are in our own best interest.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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that would be MS V 
LOL
as i was so informed earlier this evening


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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hell, Randi RHodes even called for his death on the air
well, for someone to shoot him


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

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How the hell does death threats being UP 400% over the previous administration equate to him being a media whore?


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> He won the election because of cornering the advertising online and being a pretty face, nothing more. As I have stated since I knew he was running, he's a failed American Idol star and fan ... nothing more.





> that is a massive fail that anything in your education makes you any more believable than any one else here
> you can claim anything on a message board, that doesnt make it true




I wasn't comparing myself or my education to KK's, I was responding to KK's assertion that Obama was nothing but a pretty face etc.,......and when her CV is approaching his, then maybe we can have a talk about her 'evaluation'. She didn't offer her qualifications, and I didn't ask. It isn't about my believability, it about hers. [with respect to her assesment of Obama being just a pretty face]


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

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Who?


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

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yea, I got "informed" too. It's easy to tell how much it doesn't matter to that poster by the way everyone keeps getting told.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > The only difference is now most of them are through email directly to his box, instead of being tossed by those who check the written letters.
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He advertises his Facebook page all the time ... email servers are not the only way to directly email someone. Also his network isn't as secure as people think, they're still using Windoze ... no ... you are naive to think that people can't contact him directly.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

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I'm still hoping for a link for this info, do you have 1?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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http://www.usmessageboard.com/1427516-post43.html

and she was but one of many
and NO, i'm not going to go search up links for this one, because this one was WELL known


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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and your source for that claim?


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

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And you are naive to think he runs his facebook account. Make me laff. You have no idea what goes on in the big white house do ya?


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > He won the election because of cornering the advertising online and being a pretty face, nothing more. As I have stated since I knew he was running, he's a failed American Idol star and fan ... nothing more.
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If education is something that matters so much Bush > Obama. Bush got a BA in history from Yale and an MBA from Harvard (the only president to do so). Do you really want to make presidential education an issue, or do you believe GWB was that much greater than Obama?


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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Aah ... so you admit he's lying ...


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


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here come the claims Bush only got it cause of his daddy


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

Lying about what?

Having a facebook account?

Elvis has a facebook account too, SFW?


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> Lying about what?
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> Having a facebook account?
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> Elvis has a facebook account too, SFW?



Um no ... he said he has one, and if he isn't the one using it then it's misrepresentation ... ie ... lying. So, either he's a liar or you are, which is it?


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

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Ok. That's one. 

Who else? 

Since there were so many and stuff.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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Unlike the left wingnuts, I doubt DiveCon is interested in posting massive links to posts on here when you can do the search yourself. Not to mention that most of the "death threats" you are talking about would be in the mail (and thus now storage someplace, ie "tossed") and not on here. Honestly I have yet to see one poster here calling for Obama's death.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

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You got a cited source, now it's your turn to show us where that "up 400%" claim comes from.


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

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They're comparable, but different. I'm not knocking the shrub for his education or the line of study he chose. How is this relevant to .........anything? I think a law degree is more useful than an MBA when aspiring to be a legislator, not necessary, but definitely helpful. I don't know if Bush had any aspirations when he chose. Some people are better planners than others. It makes no difference.

And I wouldn't joke or even suggest anything about assassinating any president, no matter what his policies are or who it is.  I live here. Marine One goes over my house all the time. Camp David is 15 minutes from here. I have friends who service Air Force one. The protocol 2 landing strip is less than a mile from my house. If you get within 10 miles of CD all frequencies are captured and monitored. The actions cited in the OP are not amusing to me. They are sickening. We take this shit seriously.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

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More threats against Obama since election - White House- msnbc.com

Racist Attacks on Obama Growing More Heated | Hatewatch | Southern Poverty Law Center

Rise in threats against Obama | The Australian

Man convicted of making death threats... - Google News

FBI Probes Possible Obama Death Threat - CBS News

Man Charged For Alleged Obama Death Threat - CBS News

Man Held In Obama Death Threat - August 8, 2008

Barack Obama faces 30 death threats a day, stretching US Secret Service - Telegraph

_Most however, are kept under wraps because the Secret Service fears that revealing details of them would only increase the number of copycat attempts. Although most threats are not credible, each one has to be investigated meticulously_


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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oh come on
there were tons of them
and YOU know it


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

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hell, who would want to hear President Biden?


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

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Link? Citation? Anything?

This is a real stretch but if you have something, then lets have it.

Misrepresentation, hah. Let's get WaPo on it right now!!!!


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Unlike the left wingnuts, I doubt DiveCon is interested in posting massive links to posts on here when you can do the search yourself. Not to mention that most of the "death threats" you are talking about would be in the mail (and thus now storage someplace, ie "tossed") and not on here. Honestly I have yet to see one poster here calling for Obama's death.


Who the hell said anything about someone here calling for Obama's death?


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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... and I have a ton of black friends ... your point?

Obama is still just milking the media frenzy and abusing the technology we developed for him (us geeks) just to rally the blind followers. The only difference between him and Bush ... Obama knows how to turn on a computer.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

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When someone says they have a page, then if they are not the one checking the messages there or accessing it, that's lying, plain and simple. So, either he is lying, or you are.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

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You made education an issue, not me. Good to see you backing down on it because it was a lame approach.

As far as threats... as long as we have the 1st amendment people should be able to say whatever they want. THAT is what makes this country great, not the government's ability to monitor the radio. If people are pissed about Obama's ideas they should be free to express that, if those protesting don't resonate with others they won't get any traction, if they do perhaps it will lead to revolution. Who knows? The point is this is supposed to be about "We the People..." not him the messiah. If he can't take the heat maybe he should resign. If he can then he sure doesn't need you getting his back.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Yeah. Those people investigated and arrested for threats against the President were simply part of Obama's grand plan to garner media coverage. 

Do you realize how crazy you are sounding?


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> . and I have a ton of black friends ... your point?



What is your point? 

That's what you have? A lame comeback that you have a ton of black friends?

How is that relevant to anything?

Do you assume I don't? Maryland is one of the blackest states in the union outside of the south. It's about 30%. Even Hagerstown would have a higher percentage than the overall nat'l average.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> Yeah. Those people investigated and arrested for threats against the President were simply part of Obama's grand plan to garner media coverage.
> 
> Do you realize how crazy you are sounding?



Are you going to provide a link to the source of the "up 400%" claim or not?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> Yeah. Those people investigated and arrested for threats against the President were simply part of Obama's grand plan to garner media coverage.
> 
> Do you realize how crazy you are sounding?


and how is it different than what any other POTUS has experienced
only the others didnt send out press reports for them


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## edthecynic (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...



Now if you want an example of a media whore, LimpBoy fits the bill.
When Obama got secret service protection as a candidate, MessiahRushie cried like a jealous baby that HE should have gotten Secret service protection.
And for months now he keeps telling his audience Obama MUST be STOPPED. He tells them the GOP are powerless to stop Obama's policies and Obama must be stopped. Now he will pretend he means he wants Obama's "policies" stopped, but he's also a pathological liar, so any denial on his part is an affirmation.

El Rushbo In Need of Secret Service Protection
El Rushbo In Need of Secret Service Protection
May 10, 2007

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH:  I do. I think I'm the one that needs Secret Service protection.  All this talk about Obama and presidential candidates, for crying out loud, I'm the one that needs it.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > . and I have a ton of black friends ... your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Demonstrating that your "position in life" has no meaning, that was the point. The fact that you keep backing down and changing your stance is telling. So tell me, are you or is Obama lying?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > . and I have a ton of black friends ... your point?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you dont have your location on your info
you assume people can read your mind via the internet and devine that you live near camp david
and how does that make the claims that Obama has faced more death threats


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

edthecynic said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...


stopped POLITICALLY, asshole


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

edthecynic said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Wow ... leave it to a wingnut to bring up a media personality when mentioning media whore ... that is just ... stupid.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah. Those people investigated and arrested for threats against the President were simply part of Obama's grand plan to garner media coverage.
> ...



I posted more than one link above.


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> As far as threats... as long as we have the 1st amendment people should be able to say whatever they want. THAT is what makes this country great, not the government's ability to monitor the radio.



The 1st amendment does NOT protect speech with regard to death threats to the President of the United States. Threatening the President *in any way* is illegal. 

[Death] threats in themselves are illegal, even for private persons. You can't just say anything you want. That's not what the 1st amendment is about.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



Nowhere near 400% of what any president has received ... not to mention if you factor in the higher population level now from any other time period I am certain he has had fewer than any president.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > As far as threats... as long as we have the 1st amendment people should be able to say whatever they want. THAT is what makes this country great, not the government's ability to monitor the radio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Technically ... yes and no. Only if they are sent directly to said person if they are a government official can they be considered threats, otherwise they are protected.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



I read the 1st 5 and didn't see any mention of 400%, can you please point out which article supports this claim?


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > As far as threats... as long as we have the 1st amendment people should be able to say whatever they want. THAT is what makes this country great, not the government's ability to monitor the radio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I gave my opinion. Go back and read it again with that in mind. I'm sure if you last long enough you'll start to get the hang of this whole political message board thingy.


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

I certainly hope, for the sake of the rest of rational persons that reside in reality, that Obama meets your criteria  for "liar" in regard to the management of his facebook account, kk. I hope he has a special facebook staffer to whom delegates this responsibility.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


which one claimed they were up 400%?
not saying you didnt read it, just would like to know since i'm not going through every one of those links


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> I certainly hope, for the sake of the rest of rational persons that reside in reality, that Obama meets your criteria  for "liar" in regard to the management of his facebook account, kk. I hope he has a special facebook staffer to whom delegates this responsibility.



 Rich ... just rich ... saying one thing and doing another is lying, Obama lied, unless you are lying and he is using it himself. It's simple.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> I certainly hope, for the sake of the rest of rational persons that reside in reality, that Obama meets your criteria  for "liar" in regard to the management of his facebook account, kk. I hope he has a special facebook staffer to whom delegates this responsibility.



Would anyone be surprised if Obama was paying someone just to babysit his facebook page? That would be yet another frivolous waste of OUR money.


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## edthecynic (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...



Well, that's who programmed you to call Obama a media whore! Obama is nothing like LimpBoy, a true media whore.

I remember the CON$ saying they wished Bush would have used the media more to sell his policies, but now condemn Obama for doing exactly what they wished Bush would have done.
CON$ will cry like babies no matter what Obama does.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

edthecynic said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > edthecynic said:
> ...



No, I said it long before Rush did, trust me on that. 

Also, I never claimed, nor has Rush, that Rush isn't a media whore ... it's how he makes his living moron. Or did you forget that he's a media personality?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > I certainly hope, for the sake of the rest of rational persons that reside in reality, that Obama meets your criteria  for "liar" in regard to the management of his facebook account, kk. I hope he has a special facebook staffer to whom delegates this responsibility.
> ...


if he is paying that person himself, no problem
but i doubt that is the case


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > > As far as threats... as long as we have the 1st amendment people should be able to say whatever they want. THAT is what makes this country great, not the government's ability to monitor the radio.
> ...




Your opinion was falsely based on a premise that reveals your lack of understanding of the 1st amendment. I have the hang of the "message board thingy", believe me....I know a puffer when I see one. It's easy when you have people calling for national referendums and insisting the 1st amendment means you can say anything you want and others calling the FCC an "unreliable" source.........inter alia. You may have more posts on this particular message board, but that's about it.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...


ed the moron is obsessed with Rush


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > veritas said:
> ...



First, the FCC is the one true Satan ...

Secondly, opinions do not have to be based on fact, though in this case her's is based on more facts than you have posted.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > veritas said:
> ...


no one said the FCC wasnt a reliable source
'you failed to provide the LINK to your source


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> no one said the FCC wasnt a reliable source
> 'you failed to provide the LINK to your source




No I didn't. I said FCC app form 314. You wouldn't have been able to find the pertinent snippet in a month if I hadn't. Attribution such as I gave should be sufficient for even the most inexperienced of internet users. AND if you had plugged that tidbit into a search engine you could weigh the validity of the source yourself, instead of pretending that it might be slanted. I don't just blindly follow links and then swallow them whole as gospel, I actually do the research.

If someone posts "IRS Form 1040", are you gonna bitch there is no fucking link? Some things one expects others to do themselves, or assumes a level of competency and respect for their abilities......maybe incorrectly, on the part of the reader.

Our initial exchange wasn't particularly politically charged or combative. Why would you jump all up in my grill for a stupid statute, like I was trying to deceive you? What would be the point in me deceiving you?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > no one said the FCC wasnt a reliable source
> > 'you failed to provide the LINK to your source
> 
> 
> ...


yes, i would bitch if you didnt provide a link
why should others have to do searches for you to back up your claims


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> yes, i would bitch if you didnt provide a link
> why should others have to do searches for you to back up your claims




Even if it was fully attributed?

I assumed incorrectly that you were interested in facts. 


And I don't see you bitching at others on your side, except for that Frank moron, to substantiate any of their wild claims, yet you want a full dissertation from me, footnoted with every link available. Others can go screaming into the night that it is their right to spread death threats because that is the way they interpret the 1st amendment, still others go on and on about their anal issues.....it's really absurd when you have a conduit to so much info and lots of interesting people.....intelligent people.

It's a shame really.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > yes, i would bitch if you didnt provide a link
> > why should others have to do searches for you to back up your claims
> 
> 
> ...



I hilighted the one part you got right up to this point. You are blindly supporting a government that is now trying to steal power and swallowing what they tell you without ever considering the fact that these are the same people who enacted such gems as "The Patriot Act" and bailouts.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > yes, i would bitch if you didnt provide a link
> > why should others have to do searches for you to back up your claims
> 
> 
> ...


stop lying


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> You are blindly supporting a government that is now trying to steal power and swallowing what they tell you without ever considering the fact that these are the same people who enacted such gems as "The Patriot Act" and bailouts.



O'Really?  I don't blindly support anything. Just because I said I don't support death threats to the POTUS in any form, I'm a blind drone for the gov't? 

I've actually read the Patriot Act. And Title 18 among a myriad of other shit.  We haven't discussed it. Half the morons in here don't even understand basic civics.

You need to lay off the starbucks, seriously........I'm worried about ya.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > You are blindly supporting a government that is now trying to steal power and swallowing what they tell you without ever considering the fact that these are the same people who enacted such gems as "The Patriot Act" and bailouts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*yawn* Death threats to the president are old news ... older than any of us on here.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 16, 2009)

As for your "holier than thou" attitude, you have no idea what people on here have read or not, you are not the only one with Google. I have read things that you probably couldn't even fathom myself.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> > You are blindly supporting a government that is now trying to steal power and swallowing what they tell you without ever considering the fact that these are the same people who enacted such gems as "The Patriot Act" and bailouts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


then you know the PA was passed under a dem controled senate
and the dems havent done anything to stop it since they have had full control of both bodies of congress for over 2 years now


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

> I have read things that you probably couldn't even fathom myself.




uh huh.........indubitably. can't argue with that one, nosirree bob.......


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > > You are blindly supporting a government that is now trying to steal power and swallowing what they tell you without ever considering the fact that these are the same people who enacted such gems as "The Patriot Act" and bailouts.
> ...




hmmm.........but you were adamantly FOR the Iraq invasion and insist it was legal. I know I'm borrowing from another thread here so don't go all postal and ask me to link to your own posts.

I find your opposing views on these two matters to be puzzling.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...



The population has grown that much in the last year?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > veritas said:
> ...


really, how does saying it wasn illegal means i supported it???
wow, you are not very good at this, are you?


i DID and DO support it, but just saying it wasnt illegal doesnt imply support

i had many issues with how things were done, but it was the right thing to do, only it should have been done 12 years sooner


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


you still havent supported the 400% claim


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




You really don't need anyone to argue with, you're doing fine on your own........with yourself.......

There are issues and then there are _issues_.


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...




Felonies by toddlers, emma........serious problem.......next wedge issue fer sure.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > > As far as threats... as long as we have the 1st amendment people should be able to say whatever they want. THAT is what makes this country great, not the government's ability to monitor the radio.
> ...


Really? 

Wow. You should go help guy out; perhaps you can get his conviction overturned: 

Man convicted of making death threats against Obama | L.A. Now | Los Angeles Times

Too bad you weren't counsel for these folks: 

FBI Probes Possible Obama Death Threat - CBS News

Man Charged For Alleged Obama Death Threat - CBS News

Man Held In Obama Death Threat - August 8, 2008

Suspect in Obama threat found competent - Local - SunHerald.com

You've clearly missed your calling.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > veritas said:
> ...


ok, you can fuck off too


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > veritas said:
> ...


and in which link does it say the death threats against POTUS have gone up 400%?


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...


What did the post say that I was responding to? 

Here. Try reading it again: 



KittenKoder said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > > As far as threats... as long as we have the 1st amendment people should be able to say whatever they want. THAT is what makes this country great, not the government's ability to monitor the radio.
> ...



There. Does that clear it up for you?


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

There appears to be a deficit among certain posters with regard to being able to focus.


[off to check the lunar schedule]


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


no, because i dont care what you were replying to, i'm still waiting for the link that says death threats against POTUS have risen 400% since Obama was sworn in
or are you now dropping that claim?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> There appears to be a deficit among certain posters with regard to being able to focus.
> 
> 
> [off to check the lunar schedule]


yeah, YOU


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I already linked to the article.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > There appears to be a deficit among certain posters with regard to being able to focus.
> ...



Says the person who complains because I'm not responding to a point that wasn't made.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > veritas said:
> ...


you made the point that death threats had risen by 400%
i havent yet seen you back that up
if you did, i missed it, or you didnt state which of the many links you posted actually backs it up


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


Here's one: 

Barack Obama faces 30 death threats a day, stretching US Secret Service - Telegraph

_Most however, are kept under wraps because the Secret Service fears that revealing details of them would only increase the number of copycat attempts. Although most threats are not credible, each one has to be investigated meticulously.
_

"Credible", as described in other articles about death threats, means that they had plans and/or were capable of carrying them out, not that the threats weren't made.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


HOLY SHIT
they are claiming he is on track for 12,000 death threats in a year?
sorry, that is hard to believe
its even hard to believe Bush got 3000 in a year

i haev to wonder if that is a reliable story at all
the telegraph wasnt always very reliable in recent years


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

hell, even the 30 a day claim makes it less than that
only a little over 10k
but i have a feeling that stoy is BS


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> hell, even the 30 a day claim makes it less than that
> only a little over 10k
> but i have a feeling that stoy is BS



Feelings?

here we go........


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## Old Rocks (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> veritas said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...



Sweet little kitten, we see your posts every day. They define someone that has little scientific education, that is too lazy to research the topics that they comment on, and hates everyone in general. Sorry about the world you live in, but you have created it for yourself.


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## Old Rocks (Aug 16, 2009)

Amid raucous protests on health care, some worry about Obama's safety - Yahoo! Canada News

WASHINGTON - Death threats are part of the job for any American president, but Barack Obama has reportedly had more levelled against him than any commander-in-chief in history. 


Concerns about his safety are mounting in the midst of a tense summer that has seen mobs of angry demonstrators showing up to protest Obama's health-care reform plans - including a man openly carrying a pistol on Tuesday in New Hampshire, where the president held a town hall meeting on health care. 


It's legal to carry holstered weapons in the state, so long as they're not concealed. The man was also waving a sign that read "It Is Time To Water The Tree of Liberty," a reference to the Thomas Jefferson quote: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

Death threats against Presidents are nothing new, sadly. How many of both parties have been assassinated, or had a serious attempt made on their lives, over the course of the Republic? The Secret Service was not created for Presidential protection, but was tasked with it for a damn good reason. The last few Presidents have probably chosen very....un-Presidential VPs for the same reason. It's a kind of life insurance, IMO. The threats are and have been very real.

The thing that bothers me about the sign in the OP is the inclusion of the entire Obama family. Some regular person taking the rhetoric too far might mention Obama's death, but it takes a real sicko to advocate killing children. I wonder if this guy was one of the same people who howled when some on the left (wrongly) went after the Palin kids? 

The other thing that bothers me is that we have become so accustomed to this kind of thing that too many of us are defending somebody calling for the assassination of a President as just business as usual. Look, they did it to my guy! It always happens, so what's the big deal? It might be true (is true actually), but should we really be excusing it on either side? When a nation can no longer have intelligent discourse on the issues without resorting to death threats, there is a serious problem.


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## Political Junky (Aug 16, 2009)

EURweb.com - PRESIDENTIAL DEATH THREATS UP 400 PERCENT: New book claims Obama gets 30 death threats a day.

*PRESIDENTIAL DEATH THREATS UP 400 PERCENT:* New book claims Obama gets 30 death threats a day.
(August 7, 2009)Email to a friend | Print Friendly Buzz up!

      *President Barack Obama is the target of more than 30 potential death threats a day and is being protected by an increasingly over-stretched and under-resourced Secret Service, according to a new book.

*Since Obama took office, the rate of threats against the president has increased 400 percent from the roughly 3,000 per year under President George W. Bush,* according to Ronald Kessler, author of "In the President's Secret Service."

      Some threats to Obama, whose Secret Service codename is Renegade, have been publicized, including an alleged plot by white supremacists in Tennessee late last year to rob a gun store, shoot 88 black people, decapitate another 14 and then assassinate the first black president in American history.

      Most however, are kept under wraps because the Secret Service fears that revealing details of them would only increase the number of copycat attempts. Although most threats are not credible, each one has to be investigated thoroughly.

      According to the book, intelligence officials received intel that people associated with the Somalia-based Islamist group al-Shabaab might try to disrupt Obama's inauguration in January, when the Secret Service coordinated at least 40,000 agents and officers from some 94 police, military and security agencies.

      More than a dozen counter-sniper teams were stationed along the inauguration parade route and the criminal records of employees and hotel guests in nearby buildings were scrutinized, the book states. Despite all this, there were glaring loopholes in the security.

      Kessler describes how more than 100 VIPs and major campaign donors were screened by metal detectors but then walked along a public pavement before boarding "secure" buses and were not checked again. It could have been relatively simple for an assassin to have mingled with them in order to get close enough to shoot the new president, the book notes.

      After Obama was elected president, his two children Malia, 11, codenamed Radiance, and Sasha, eight, codenamed Rosebud, began receiving Secret Service protection. Obama's wife Michelle is codenamed Renaissance. The Secret Service also started to protect Vice-President Joe Biden's children, grandchildren, and mother.

      Instead of bringing in more agents, the Secret Service directed agents to work longer hours to cover the extra load and to miss firearms training, physical fitness sessions and tests.

      "We have half the number of agents we need, but requests for more agents have fallen on deaf ears at headquarters," a Secret Service agent told Kessler. "Headquarters' mentality has always been, 'You can complete the mission with what you have. You're a U.S.S.S. agent'."


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## Avatar4321 (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> How the hell does death threats being UP 400% over the previous administration equate to him being a media whore?



You know, there are three types of liars. Liars, damned liars, and statisticians. 

We dont have figures for the death threats of previous administrations. nor the figures for the current one.

We do have countless public cries for President Bush's assassination. Several books written on doing that. At least one movie that was publicized for the sole purpose of it. And now we are supposed to just accept one guy carrying a sign in New England as evidence that the threats have multiplied and now they are somehow unexceptable?

The double standards for you people are absolutely outrageous here.

I can tell you one thing. If there ever is a plot, its not going to be by someone on the right. It will be from someone on the left trying to keep him from ruining their plans and attempting to blame it on the right.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

The figure is from a new book by Ronald Kessler.... interesting.

So does this mean we can now cite stories from NewsMax without catching any shit? Did any of you libs catch his 2004 book "A Matter Of Character" where he praised GWB? He also does op-ed's for the WSJ that great bastion of liberal thought.

Are you guys really sure this is who you want to give credibility to? I don't think his number sounds right. I think it's more intended to show how hated Obama is and tho I haven't read the book I'll bet the main thrust of it is that he's hated for good reason. It seems an odd endorsement from the Left here.

So which is it, is this guy a credible source of info or not?


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## Avatar4321 (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> I wasn't comparing myself or my education to KK's, I was responding to KK's assertion that Obama was nothing but a pretty face etc.,......and when her CV is approaching his, then maybe we can have a talk about her 'evaluation'. She didn't offer her qualifications, and I didn't ask. It isn't about my believability, it about hers. [with respect to her assesment of Obama being just a pretty face]



Here's your problem. You seem to think a piece of paper qualifies a person.

Having experience with many graduates from fine schools who are dumb as a rock, you are wrong.


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> The figure is from a new book by Ronald Kessler.... interesting.
> 
> So does this mean we can now cite stories from NewsMax without catching any shit? Did any of you libs catch his 2004 book "A Matter Of Character" where he praised GWB? He also does op-ed's for the WSJ that great bastion of liberal thought.
> 
> ...



Hardly.


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## Avatar4321 (Aug 16, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Unlike the left wingnuts, I doubt DiveCon is interested in posting massive links to posts on here when you can do the search yourself. Not to mention that most of the "death threats" you are talking about would be in the mail (and thus now storage someplace, ie "tossed") and not on here. Honestly I have yet to see one poster here calling for Obama's death.



Youre right. No one is calling for his death. For one, we respect life. and two we arent stupid enough to want Biden in charge.


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## Avatar4321 (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> hmmm.........but you were adamantly FOR the Iraq invasion and insist it was legal. I know I'm borrowing from another thread here so don't go all postal and ask me to link to your own posts.
> 
> I find your opposing views on these two matters to be puzzling.



It was legal. Congress authorized it.


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## del (Aug 16, 2009)

http://www.secretservice.gov/FY2008_AnnualReport_WM.pdf

feel free to point out the relevant stats re: increased death threats

hint:they don't exist.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah. Those people investigated and arrested for threats against the President were simply part of Obama's grand plan to garner media coverage.
> ...


I think she already did, maybe you should read the thread alittle better.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

del said:


> http://www.secretservice.gov/FY2008_AnnualReport_WM.pdf
> 
> feel free to point out the relevant stats re: increased death threats
> 
> hint:they don't exist.



Especially since it is for 2008!
And I think on page 6  says it all, Obama got a detail in feb 07, McCain didn't get one until april 2008. I wonder why they would give a hopeful a detail earlier then anyone else. McCain didn't get one as only possible Republican candidate. Maybe could it be because Obama  was recieving more death rates. Or maybe it is because he is a media whore!


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...



Um.... yea. I already responded to her bout that. Maybe YOU should read the thread a little better. It was post #83, so what was that... about 50 posts ago?

Since then we've moved on to discover the figure comes from a book by well known right wing pundit Ronald Kessler. And I posed the question to the left asking if this was really a guy they wanted to call credible and put their faith in. He's an editor at NewsMax and writes op-ed pieces for the WSJ. Can the right now cite these sources without the left blubbering about bias? If you want to get in on the discussion that's where we're at now. If you're just trolling my posts you're failing.


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## elvis (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> del said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.secretservice.gov/FY2008_AnnualReport_WM.pdf
> ...



Both are true.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

i even question the numbers cited for Bush
3000 a year??????????


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> i even question the numbers cited for Bush
> 3000 a year??????????



If it counts multiple "threats" from the same sources, I'd believe it. There are a lot of crazies out there. Some of them are persistent.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

goldcatt said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > i even question the numbers cited for Bush
> ...


yeah, true
but for it to increase by 400% would mean some of the people making death threats against Bush are also likely to be making them against Obama
and i wonder how many of these are from Americans


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Good question. But since I don't trust the original source I'm not sure how much the answer means to me.  The fact that it happens in any significant number to any President is revolting enough.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > del said:
> ...


he maybe a media whore but he knew what it took to get elected. We are in the media age and Obama was smart enough to know how to use it in his favor.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


trolling your post? Give me a break!
Who is the one who went it to my light hearted thread and decided to be a buzz kill. Get over yourself!


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## Political Junky (Aug 16, 2009)

This thread has come a long way from the original post, regarding the increase in right wing extremism.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

goldcatt said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > goldcatt said:
> ...


agreed
he's the elected POTUS and shouldnt be facing this crap
and the SS dopesnt need the extra work


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



He shouldn't be facing this crap, and his wife and especially his kids sure as hell shouldn't be. Kids are off-limits, I don't care who their parents are.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...


so, Obama is praised for being a media whore, but Palin is villified for being the same


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


I spread it around before repping you!
And don't worry most of us on the left know that most people on the right respect the fact he is President and this shouldn't happening.
And it is probably the same people who threatened Bush who are now threatening Obama.
They are the Timothy McVeigh's and the Chevy Kehoe's, and it is very scary to think about these people existing and the fact many live about an hour or two from where I live.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

goldcatt said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > goldcatt said:
> ...


again, i agree, kids didnt choose their parents
and they didnt tell the parents to get into politics


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > goldcatt said:
> ...



Too true. And they live everywhere, at least the ones close to you are apparently obvious. The scariest ones are the ones we don't know about.


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I use dto fight with "my own" about that a lot when the Palin kids were brought up. Both sides are guilty of crossing that line. Classless. At least I think we're adult enough to know it's a small strident minority on both sides pulling that crap.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

goldcatt said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


tell me about it!
Just say people around here were happy when the Richard Butler compound was auctioned off and the group broke up somewhat about ten years ago.
We have had some bad ones come from here Chevy Kehoe for instance, the guy who shot the security guard and holocaust museam and another guy who killed some people in California. At least they are watching them here now but what about the ones they have no clue about. I have read a few Aryan Nation websites recently and it is alittle scary.


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



We almost always hear about how they were so quiet, they seemed so normal, the neighbors never suspected a thing. I don't know how you can stomach visiting those kinds of sites, they're too much for me. But it's hard to tell who's blowing smoke and who's serious until it's too late. Creepy.


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## JakeStarkey (Aug 16, 2009)

You got a guy or gal who truly is scary that way.  Just give their name and address to the feebees, and they will keep it private.

All you have to say is this is the kind of guy might do something stupid to the Pres or other federal officials.  You may get a visit, and just be up front about your feelings.


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## xsited1 (Aug 16, 2009)

Political Junky said:


> Fears for Obama's safety as healthcare debate fuels extremism



There are plenty of Obamabots willing to take a bullet for him.  I wouldn't worry about his safety.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Avatar4321 said:


> And now we are supposed to just accept one guy carrying a sign in New England as evidence that the threats have multiplied and now they are somehow unexceptable?


Any threat to any President is unacceptable. And I don't think I even mentioned 'one guy carrying a sign in New England'. I did provide links to people who are being investigated, charged, and/or convicted of making death threats toward President Obama.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> The figure is from a new book by Ronald Kessler.... interesting.
> 
> So does this mean we can now cite stories from NewsMax without catching any shit? Did any of you libs catch his 2004 book "A Matter Of Character" where he praised GWB? He also does op-ed's for the WSJ that great bastion of liberal thought.
> 
> ...


So you admit he doesn't have a "liberal" bias? That should make his claim more credible in your eyes, doncha think?


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > The figure is from a new book by Ronald Kessler.... interesting.
> ...



Like I said, I haven't read the book. Having the most death threats isn't necessarily a good or bad thing. It could mean he's really making a difference and shaking things up, or it could mean he's failing so epicly that he's driving people to consider homicide.

I still don't think the number sounds right and I'm surprised the left would want to give credibility to someone like him. 

So then, are you going to answer my question? Can we post NewsMax articles without being laughed at for the source? Or do you only believe him if you think what he's saying supports you?


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


I have always hated the fact that people shoot down sources because they feel they don't lean the way they do.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

goldcatt said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > goldcatt said:
> ...


You should read what I posted on the second page of this thread. I found it on one of their sites.
I watched a special on the Kehoe brothers and like you said a teacher from here in Spokane when he went to a local high school here said Chevy was quiet and a good kid.


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## goldcatt (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> goldcatt said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



I'll have to go back and look. I read the whole thread but the memory is getting faulty on me.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > The figure is from a new book by Ronald Kessler.... interesting.
> ...


why should it
you would have to assume that the guy had any credibility before now
LOL


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...



Newsmax? That's certainly better than WND lol. 

What he's saying doesn't 'support' me. I am referencing what _he_ claimed. Now he does have an impressive career as an investigative journalist so I would think that he wouldn't make such a claim without sources to back it up, although it's been known to happen. To do so would destroy his career and any chance of being taken seriously again. The book is about the Secret Service, not President Obama in particular, so that should lend it more credibility for either side. But we'll see. I've ordered the book. It sounds interesting, and I'll let y'all know what sources he uses to make such a claim.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

> Having the most death threats isn't necessarily a good or bad thing. It could mean he's really making a difference and shaking things up, or it could mean he's failing so epicly that he's driving people to consider homicide.



BTW, that statement alone is just crazy. Death threats aren't a bad thing? Are you serious? Dear Lord...


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


What in his career leads you to believe he has no credibility?

Ronald Kessler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Either way, I'll read the book and decide for myself if he sources his claim and provides enough proof.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


not knowing the guy, what makes you think he has any withy me to begin with?


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


I'm just responding to your post.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

he looks like he has alot of creditablty to me!
For one after he wrote a book on the FBI they dismissed the director.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Let me know how it is Emma.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


as was i yours
lol


----------



## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> Let me know how it is Emma.



I will. 

I am such an amazon.com junky!!!



I'm so far behind in my reading it's not funny. I keep seeing interviews and such and then it's "I gotta have that book!"

*sigh*


----------



## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> > Having the most death threats isn't necessarily a good or bad thing. It could mean he's really making a difference and shaking things up, or it could mean he's failing so epicly that he's driving people to consider homicide.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, that statement alone is just crazy. Death threats aren't a bad thing? Are you serious? Dear Lord...



Anything can be seen as crazy out of context. And here you nearly had me fooled that you aren't just like the rest on the left. Oh well.

FWIW, and as I'm sure you already know, I wasn't referring to whether or not death threats are good or bad, but whether a high quantity could translate into political capital.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Then tell me, based upon his background and history, why would he not have any credibility?


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Emma said:
> 
> 
> > > Having the most death threats isn't necessarily a good or bad thing. It could mean he's really making a difference and shaking things up, or it could mean he's failing so epicly that he's driving people to consider homicide.
> ...



Well, just so you know, I'm not saying death threats equate to political capital. That was KK. 

And as far as what you said above, I don't care how bad Obama (or Bush or any other President) has been, that doesn't justify death threats. If I misunderstood what you were trying to say, I apologize.


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> he looks like he has alot of creditablty to me!
> For one after he wrote a book on the FBI they dismissed the director.





Emma said:


> Then tell me, based upon his background and history, why would he not have any credibility?



I'm sure you'd both really enjoy: A Matter of Character: Inside the White House of George W. Bush. 2004. ISBN 1595230149

Where he heaps praise on GWB. 

Or maybe you'd see him as just a little biased. Or did I miss the part where you really liked the Bush presidency?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Emma said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Emma said:
> ...


i dont know thing one about him
LOL
so how can he have a shred of credibility with me?


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > he looks like he has alot of creditablty to me!
> ...


maybe she should read that one FIRST


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## Amanda (Aug 16, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Amanda said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



I'm not trying to bash the guy. As it turns out I have read a couple of his books and I enjoyed them. What I'm trying to figure out is if he's suddenly credible when he says what they want to hear. Because I'd be willing to bet if they took his entire body of work and gave it a serious look they would call the guy a right wing propaganda machine.


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## DiveCon (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


which is why she should read that one first


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## veritas (Aug 16, 2009)

While doing a bio piece might let sympathies bleed into the writing about personalities and accomplishments/failures whatever, something like how many death threats were recorded isn't the type of information that begs for bias, is it?


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > he looks like he has alot of creditablty to me!
> ...



If he IS biased toward the right (and he may well be), wouldn't that make his claim more credible in your eyes?

I've got this book on order, if it's a good read I may well order another. Thanks.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


I never said I considered him not to be credible in the first place. I _did_ say he had an impressive career and I don't see him making such a claim without a source.


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## Emma (Aug 16, 2009)

veritas said:


> While doing a bio piece might let sympathies bleed into the writing about personalities and accomplishments/failures whatever, something like how many death threats were recorded isn't the type of information that begs for bias, is it?



No, it isn't. Which is why I'm a bit confused that his prior book was even brought into this.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > he looks like he has alot of creditablty to me!
> ...


that isn't the only book he wrote and just because a person a certain political view doesn't mean he doesn't have any credibilty. 
I guess I can't like anything a conservative says just because I am liberal. 
and PS I read the book on Bush.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Amanda said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Amanda said:
> ...


I really want to know when Emma or I said that he wasn't credible before this?
maybe you should try not assume so much


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## Liberty (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



hello, racist.


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## elvis (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



while I agree, there ARE still racists in the US, considering Bush was one of the most hated Presidents in history, and Obama is FAIRLY popular, why does Obama need a bigger security detail than Bush.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...


I don't know maybe because the extreme racist are the ones who don't like black people and have a bad track record.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

Liberty said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > KittenKoder said:
> ...


why because I am stating the obvious?
And I really want to know how I am being a racist?


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## elvis (Aug 16, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



Right, we established that.  but with polls reflecting far more hatred for Bush than Obama, I don't see why Obama's sec detail is bigger.


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## Luissa (Aug 16, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...


because he has had more death threats, we have already established that! Like I said before he had to have a detail earlier then any other candidate ever.
Yeah Bush was hated but he wasn't black and people didn't say he was a muslim.
You don't have to be genius to see why he has to be better protected.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



No, they said Bush blew up the World Trade Center and killed Americans for oil.  Doesn't take a rocket science to see why you'd need more protection against people who believe that.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...


the truther's think Bush did it, the Aryan's think the Jews did it. And the only bad thing I could find  on one of Ayran's site that they said about Bush, is that he  helped the economy fail but mostly blamed Clinton. They talked a lot more about Obama and what he is doing and that they perdict his assasination.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

I also think it is real wierd we haven't heard from the aryan in this area since 2000 and all of sudden they are starting to make a come back.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



I would guess there are a lot more truthers than Aryans.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> I also think it is real wierd we haven't heard from the aryan in this area since 2000 and all of sudden they are starting to make a come back.



oh I grant you they are making a comeback with a black president and all.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...


aryan's are a lot better at hiding out and they have worse track record. One already attacked a security guard.
Truther's are nutjobs who spend their days on the web while Aryan's are up on some mountain top planning there next attack.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > I also think it is real wierd we haven't heard from the aryan in this area since 2000 and all of sudden they are starting to make a come back.
> ...


living an hour away from Idaho and remembering the days of Richard Butler and the guy who attacked the Fillipino center in California, who was a guard at the Butler compound. And having the Kehoe brother's pipe bomb our City Hall plus Ruby Ridge is only two hours from where I live. I am sure as hell more scared of the Aryan's and the nutjobs who live in the mountains around here who think minorities are the down fall of this country then some geek truther.


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## DiveCon (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...


slight correction, troofers are hiding out in their houses afraid the black helicopters are coming for them


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...


sorry for my mistake!


----------



## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



I can understand that.  I can't remember the name of the terror group that wrecked seattle, they were protesting the WTO.  The spokane police dept handled those people much better than seattle did.  
but not all the truthers are just geeks sitting on computers.  anything can happen.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

WHITEY is buying guns and ammunition at a record pace .... no-stop since the Marxist Communist Obama entered illegally (not a U.S. confirmed citizen) into the White House, and WHITEY is awakening to the Jews and their` financial rip-off of the U.S. Treasury (U.S. taxpayers) and the giving of such, to the JEW banks, lending financial houses, and to the Jews themselves without having to disclose where and how much money went where!!

The writing is on the wall.  Even the blind and dumb are starting to smell a rat (Jew).  Even ordinary Joe and Jane Doe are stocking up on food, guns, and ammunition.  Something they have never done in their life before, and at a record pace.  No longer do the masses just see the smoke of their problems, but now they see the FIRE which is creating that terrible smoke and smell in their nation.  Of course, the terrible smell is the Jews and their Black hordes who they buy off to be their axe men and criminals in the streets of the United States.  You can also throw in all millions of criminal illegal alien Mexicans who are in our nation creating havoc in whatever way they can.  I can tell you one thing, it is going to be one hell of a fight .... to say the least

Aryan Nations - Official Site

tell me that this kind of shit doesn't worry you alittle bit.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...



it wasn't a terror group or was it. I was only sixteen then and was actually in Seattle the day before that happened in the building it happened in front of but I thought it was young people protesting? 
All I remember about that is my sister who worked in that building couldn't go to work for a few days.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...


you know what is funny the Spokane Police just got sued for the arrests of some protestors that were in our city park. Of course the protestors settled I believe, I will have to check that out.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



the people I'm thinking of wore all black clothes, I believe.  

the following year, the same group protested in spokane.  The sheriff met with the group ahead of time.  He said you guys are welcome to protest here.  you can yell and scream all you want.  However, I will have swat teams on location.  The minute you start breaking things, we will kill you.  
spokane wasn't trashed.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



from what I've heard, the spokane police don't tolerate any crap, as my above post states.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> WHITEY is buying guns and ammunition at a record pace .... no-stop since the Marxist Communist Obama entered illegally (not a U.S. confirmed citizen) into the White House, and WHITEY is awakening to the Jews and their` financial rip-off of the U.S. Treasury (U.S. taxpayers) and the giving of such, to the JEW banks, lending financial houses, and to the Jews themselves without having to disclose where and how much money went where!!
> 
> The writing is on the wall.  Even the blind and dumb are starting to smell a rat (Jew).  Even ordinary Joe and Jane Doe are stocking up on food, guns, and ammunition.  Something they have never done in their life before, and at a record pace.  No longer do the masses just see the smoke of their problems, but now they see the FIRE which is creating that terrible smoke and smell in their nation.  Of course, the terrible smell is the Jews and their Black hordes who they buy off to be their axe men and criminals in the streets of the United States.  You can also throw in all millions of criminal illegal alien Mexicans who are in our nation creating havoc in whatever way they can.  I can tell you one thing, it is going to be one hell of a fight .... to say the least
> 
> ...



oh it does.  I took a terrorism class and we talked about them, godhatesfags. com, etc.


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## DiveCon (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > WHITEY is buying guns and ammunition at a record pace .... no-stop since the Marxist Communist Obama entered illegally (not a U.S. confirmed citizen) into the White House, and WHITEY is awakening to the Jews and their` financial rip-off of the U.S. Treasury (U.S. taxpayers) and the giving of such, to the JEW banks, lending financial houses, and to the Jews themselves without having to disclose where and how much money went where!!
> ...


the WBC chumps are a sick group


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> elvis3577 said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...



yeah, there's crazy crap out there.  we studied the kehoe brothers, too.  but it's hard to keep them all straight.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

hey do you know of any link on the protests here in Spokane? I seriously don't remember it, probably because it went smoothly. We had a great Sheriff back then, which probably has a lot to do with it.


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## veritas (Aug 17, 2009)

The group you are looking for, the people in black, call themselves Anarchists.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > elvis3577 said:
> ...


no they don't! If you are a meth head and give them any lip you are either getting tased or shot. We have had I think four now criminals killed by the Police department or maybe three and one is still in critical condition just in the passed six months.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> hey do you know of any link on the protests here in Spokane? I seriously don't remember it, probably because it went smoothly. We had a great Sheriff back then, which probably has a lot to do with it.



honestly, the professor who taught my terrorism class told us about him. He's good friends with him.   I don't know the sheriff's name or anything.  I took the professor's word for it.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
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I have read some stuff that puts McVeigh meeting Chevy at a hotel here in Spokane right before he bombed the federal building. We breed bombers and serial killers around here.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

I think it might be Mark Sterk.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

he also was sheriff when we caught our last serial killer in this area.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> I think it might be Mark Sterk.



yeah i think the professor was real careful about not naming names.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

veritas said:


> The group you are looking for, the people in black, call themselves Anarchists.



yeah but they were the dragons or something.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
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> > I think it might be Mark Sterk.
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probably a good idea!
He is gone now, retired I believe or maybe got a better job. I wasn't real involved in all that back then. I just know he caught the serial killer which I was happy about because the guy used to come in the Kmart I used to work at back then and was tying Kmart bags around his victims heads. I actually remember the guy coming in all the time, alittle scary!


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
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do you get a lot of ELF out there?  earth liberation front?


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
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more in Seattle! I think there has been some around here but you don't hear about it much.
I think they might of protested here awhile back but I could be wrong.
Unlike Seattle Spokane has a large conservative base and we have a lot of conservative democrats. We went for Obama but we elected a republican senator who I might add is a birther.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


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the birthers need to give it a rest.  that guy must be the right's version of Cynthia MacKinney.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

it is a lady. She was the one who stuck up for Palin because she also has a baby with downs.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

it is a lady. She was the one who stuck up for Palin because she also has a baby with downs.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> it is a lady. She was the one who stuck up for Palin because she also has a baby with downs.



ah. well, she and cynthia should get together and have a fist fight on springer.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
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> > it is a lady. She was the one who stuck up for Palin because she also has a baby with downs.
> ...


also correction she is our rep not our senator, sorry!


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

and they should!


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> elvis3577 said:
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no prob. she sounds nutty. just like mackinney, who I believe ran for prez in 2004.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 17, 2009)

Springer rules!


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## DiveCon (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
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> > it is a lady. She was the one who stuck up for Palin because she also has a baby with downs.
> ...


isnt Cynthia still in jail in Israel


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> elvis3577 said:
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we'll have to ask eots.


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## KittenKoder (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> DiveCon said:
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Now there's a kook I miss when he's gone.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
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beside the birther crap she isn't that bad, she actually held a townhall meeting in town near here and I think she did a pretty good job of listening to people and it was a very calm meeting.


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Springer rules!


man I miss springer. He should run for President, instead of having beers to solve conflicts he will just let them go at it.


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## elvis (Aug 17, 2009)

Luissa said:


> KittenKoder said:
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> > Springer rules!
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well he was mayor of cincinnati about 20 years ago.


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## DiveCon (Aug 17, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> elvis3577 said:
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has he been around lately?
maybe the black copters finally came for him


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## Luissa (Aug 17, 2009)

elvis3577 said:


> Luissa said:
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I thought he was going to run for something again???
I watched documentary on Marion Barry today, that guy actually ran for city council in DC in 2004.


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