# 9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible



## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible 

PilotsFor911Truth
November 29, 2009

Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled &#8220;FLT DECK DOOR&#8221;, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.



On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 0854 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, &#8220;&#8230;all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers&#8230;&#8221;[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?

9/11: Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible - Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum


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## slackjawed (Dec 7, 2009)

That's exactly right, Space aliens blasted the hole in the building and those evil midgets working with the bush administration cleaned up all traces of the space missle that actually blew the hole. 
Be careful EOTS, your getting too close and I, for one, am concerned about your safety.


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## Tom Clancy (Dec 7, 2009)

So, then.. According to the Truthers it was a Missile?


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> That's exactly right, Space aliens blasted the hole in the building and those evil midgets working with the bush administration cleaned up all traces of the space missle that actually blew the hole.
> Be careful EOTS, your getting too close and I, for one, am concerned about your safety.



great comeback!.....but what about trying to answer the question really?


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## manu1959 (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> slackjawed said:
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they question is.....is the analysis true the door was never opened.....or is the analysis faked to support the conspiracy theory....

the 911 truthers have just as much to gain from faking data as they claim the us government had from faking an attack....


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## slackjawed (Dec 7, 2009)

You can't really answer eots, he's a good guy, but gets all tangled up with those youtube videos that just make everything more confusing.
Time will tell if he is on the right track.
I annoy him from time to time, as I did today, but even though he won't admit it, he likes the challenge and the attention. He really enjoys cursing at me and calling me names. Someday he is going to come out to visit and go fishing with me. 
Who knows, (i don't) he could be right about 911. I do know that the more I give him a hard time, the more information he posts on here, so in a way I am helping him stay focused.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

manu1959 said:


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so who performed the analysis test with the finding above?


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## slackjawed (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


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from the link eots posted;
Newly decoded data provided by *an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia* exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.


That link is to another message board where eots is, no doubt, a member.  There WILL be a youtube video from him soon, just wait for it.........


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

another question would be - if the above person(s) who decoded the data went through the freedom of information act then wouldn't it be possible to get another unbiased analysis to confirm their findings?


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## manu1959 (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> another question would be - if the above person(s) who decoded the data went through the freedom of information act then wouldn't it be possible to get another unbiased analysis to confirm their findings?



yep...according to the blog...he has a link to it....it is a simple binary code...1 means open 0 means closed or the other way around....anyway the claim is the door was closed....the engines started and was never opened....

no ho many of you have gotten on a plane and the door was open and the engines running....and we all know pilots always follow the rules and programers never make mistakes a nor would this guy have any reason to "fudge" the data....


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> slackjawed said:
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> > That's exactly right, Space aliens blasted the hole in the building and those evil midgets working with the bush administration cleaned up all traces of the space missle that actually blew the hole.
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thats the typical comebacks they always have.havent seen you around in a while Jay,good to have ya back.


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> So, then.. According to the Truthers it was a Missile?



truthers ??...this is just some label for those that draw attention flaws in the official lie of 9/11..there are a number of theories beyond that ..so the point is not to say a missile hit he pentagon but instead is to once again point out the flaws in the official lie the need for independent investigation and the release of classified information like the 84 unreleased video of the pentagon on 9/11 and find the truth whatever it may be


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## slackjawed (Dec 7, 2009)

wow, I have been elevated to "they". luck is on my side today!


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

"no ho many of you have gotten on a plane and the door was open and the engines running....and we all know pilots always follow the rules and programers never make mistakes a nor would this guy have any reason to "fudge" the data...."

not your analysis....an independent analysis from a source that is credible.


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## Tom Clancy (Dec 7, 2009)

Truthers:9/11 Truth movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Yes because we are all Brainwashed and Liars and idiots for believing that our Government weren't the ones who caused 9/11.. 

On the other hand you're the Genius, Non-idiotic, Non-Brainwashed fellow who believes into these crazy conspiracy's.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

I know how you feel Tom! -  just because I don't believe the official 9-11 story because of so many contradictions in their version of the events of that day doesn't mean i'm brainwashed, a liar or an idiot.


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

manu1959 said:


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well that is simply untrue although I am glad to see you recognize how people within the U.S government benefited from the attacks but these Honorable men and woman have little to gain and in fact take a certain measure of risk  in the stand they take and there credentials and service speak for themselves

*
here are just a few core members of the board..but anyone is free to join however if your response is to call them toofer morons as a supposed rebuttal of evidence will not be tolerated for long...this is no joke and these patriots are no joke*

*Forced to retire due 9/11 exposure*

Guy S. Razer, LtCol, USAF (Ret)
3,500+ Hours Total Flight Time
F-15E/C, F-111A/D/E/F/EF, F-16, F-18, B-1, Mig-29, SU-22, T-37/38, Various Cvilian Prop
Combat Time: Operation Northern Watch
*USAF Fighter Weapons School Instructor
NATO Tactical Leadership Program Instructor*/Mission Coordinator
USAF Material Command Weapons Development Test Pilot
Combat Support Coordination Team 2 Airpower Coordinator, South Korea
All Service Combat Identification Evaluation Team Operations Officer
*Boeing F-22 Pilot Instructor*
MS Aeronautical Studies, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University


Commander Ralph &#8220;Rotten&#8221; Kolstad
23,000 hours
27 years in the airlines
B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines. 
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, *TopGun twice*
civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds
Command time in:
- N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77)
- N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as 

Jeff Latas
*-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President*--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways





*Col Robert Bowman
President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies
Executive Vice President of Millennium III Corporation
retired Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church
101 combat missions in Vietnam
directed all the &#8220;Star Wars&#8221; programs under Presidents Ford and Carter
recipient of the Eisenhower Medal*
George F. Kennan Peace Prize
President&#8217;s Medal of Veterans for Peace
*Society of Military Engineers' ROTC Award of Merit (twice*)
Six Air Medals
*Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering* from Caltech
chaired 8 major international conferences
one of the country&#8217;s *foremost experts on National Security
independent candidate for President of the US in 2000*
The Patriots

Adam Shaw
*Wingman  CAPTENS.fr  Aerobatic Airshow team*
Former UPI and Washington Post reporter
Author SOUND OF IMPACT "The Legacy of TWA # 514", Viking Press , N.Y(1977)
4500 hrs  TT. Aerobatic, Mountain, Seaplane Instructor-Pilot

J. Randall Reinhardt
Commercial, Multi, Instrument, CFI, ATP, 
Commercial Glider, Advanced/ Instrument Ground Instructor, 
Turbojet Type Rating - Learjet
Flying since 1961, 
8,000+ hours in civil, military and Part 25 Transport category aircraft
J.D. degree in 1972 , 
30 years practicing trial law, with a concentration in aviation related litigation, 
including FAA Part 91, 135, 121 and 141 accidents and FAA/NTSB matters
*Forensic Director for U.S. Aviation Forensics with 30 years experience in aircraft accident investigation.*
Former FAA Accident Prevention Specialist
*Former member U.S. Unlimited Aerobatic Team with unrestricted aerobatic waiver.*


9/11: Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible - Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum


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## slackjawed (Dec 7, 2009)

I think if   J. Randall Reinhardt practiced law for 30 years he should know how to get the 'unreleased videos" released.  Why don't we ask him to take it to court?
And that's 'troofers' NOT 'toofers'
I still think there is a little evidence to show that there was involvement by evil midgets, at least in the cleanup/coverup.


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## Toro (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> slackjawed said:
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> > That's exactly right, Space aliens blasted the hole in the building and those evil midgets working with the bush administration cleaned up all traces of the space missle that actually blew the hole.
> ...



There are at least 136 documented eyewitnesses who saw a plane slam into the Pentagon.  Are they all wrong?  How many people saw a missile hit the Pentagon?


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## Toro (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> another question would be - if the above person(s) who decoded the data went through the freedom of information act then wouldn't it be possible to get another unbiased analysis to confirm their findings?



And another question would be, what happened to all the people on the plane?  They were all checked in.  People dropped them off at the airport.  Loved ones said good-bye to them.  Personal effects from passengers were found in the Pentagon.  How did they get there?


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

Toro said:


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yeah but strangely enough all the cameras and tape of that side of the Pentagon was seized and has not been released..... and you would think that there would be plenty of footage when it comes to the Pentagon.


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## Tom Clancy (Dec 7, 2009)

Toro said:


> Jay Canuck said:
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> > another question would be - if the above person(s) who decoded the data went through the freedom of information act then wouldn't it be possible to get another unbiased analysis to confirm their findings?
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*[Sarcasm on.]*

The government put them there. 

Those passengers are in the Bahamas having a blast, haven't you heard? 

*[Sarcasm Off]*


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 7, 2009)

Absolutely amazing, now Eots has another empty accusation without any links to the actual proof. NTSB said what? Where is this posted by the NTSB? In other words...Produce the NTSB report or we know that once again.......*YOU LIE!!!!!!*


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

Toro said:


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oh shut the fuck up we tore your supposed lie apart many times a closer examination of the testimony of the 136 shows total contradictions and when questioned more closely admit to not seeing the actual impact testimony means little when not under oath and cross examination and  your irrelevant distraction that does nothing to address the information posted here


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> I think if   J. Randall Reinhardt practiced law for 30 years he should know how to get the 'unreleased videos" released.  Why don't we ask him to take it to court?
> And that's 'troofers' NOT 'toofers'
> I still think there is a little evidence to show that there was involvement by evil midgets, at least in the cleanup/coverup.



all attempts so far have been thwarted with the claim of national security


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## Toro (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> oh shut the fuck up we tore your supposed lie apart many times a closer examination of the testimony of the 136 shows total contradictions and when questioned more closely admit to not seeing the actual impact testimony means little when not under oath and cross examination and  your irrelevant distraction that does nothing to address the information posted here





Yeah, that's right id-eots.  You twoofers "tore apart" 136+ documented eyewitnesses, yet NO ONE saw a missile hit the Pentagon!  

This is the part where you should think "Excessive use of illicit narcotics is bad!"


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 7, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> Truthers:9/11 Truth movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Yeah he must be a brainwashed liar and idiot to not  believe in crazy conspiracy theories like the government and corporate controlled medias versions that muslins and Bin Laden were behind the attacks.The corporate controlled media and government would NEVER lie to the american public,never have in their whole lives,they are out looking for the best interests in the american people.

He is not  objective and open minded at all  by listening to credible sources such as pilots,architects,engineers,first responders,firemen,and high ranking military personel.People such as him and Eots just have  horrible logic listening to people like them who dont accept the offical version instead of listening to the objective media and goverment who is here to serve the people and to look out for their best interests.How could he do such a thing like that?


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


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So that means we should not consider any of your witnesses and other testimonies as anything serious either? Or you think only those who support you are not blind? More BS.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


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yeah I love it how they always  ignore that little tidbit.


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 7, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Tom Clancy said:
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Hey dumb ass, witnesses and testimonies don't count any more, your side just said so.....


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Absolutely amazing, now Eots has another empty accusation without any links to the actual proof. NTSB said what? Where is this posted by the NTSB? In other words...Produce the NTSB report or we know that once again.......*YOU LIE!!!!!!*



take a look at the core members of this group..they don't make up lies for fun..they don't give up their careers to tell lies,,,you are a fool..what is it jealousy of there rank and achievements next to yours ?? why do you have such disrespect for these fine gentlemen ???

core group @ pilotsfor911truth.org


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## Toro (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


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The US government tried to cover up Air Force One buzzing the Statue of Liberty earlier in the year.  Now, do ya think an institution that is so secretive that it would initially deny flying around one of the most famous statues in the world in broad daylight in front of thousands of people might be a sensitive to an opening in one of the most critically important buildings in the country?

And BTW, why do you think there would be a lot of people filming the Pentagon?


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> SFC Ollie said:
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> > Absolutely amazing, now Eots has another empty accusation without any links to the actual proof. NTSB said what? Where is this posted by the NTSB? In other words...Produce the NTSB report or we know that once again.......*YOU LIE!!!!!!*
> ...




I do not disrespect them, I simply do not believe them, or you. But since you have decided that 136 people who saw a plane were wrong, then you can't tell me your people are right. Two men fighting in a battle side by side will remember different things about the battle after it ends. FACT.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

Toro said:


> Jay Canuck said:
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> > another question would be - if the above person(s) who decoded the data went through the freedom of information act then wouldn't it be possible to get another unbiased analysis to confirm their findings?
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I heard some of the passports of the 19 highjackers were found at the twin towers crash site too....I guess they were made from the same material as a black box


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


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good then lets release and examine the evidence ..lets take statements under oath and  with cross examination


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## Toro (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> I heard some of the passports of the 19 highjackers were found at the twin towers crash site too....I guess they were made from the same material as a black box





> "During an interview earlier this week, Koch delicately handled eerie mementos of the crash found during cleanup: Whittington's battered driver's license... a burnt luggage tag and a wedding ring lie on a book dedicated to those lost in the events of Sept. 11, 2001. The wedding ring belonged to Ruth's daughter and the luggage tag belonged to one her granddaughters."



OnlineAthens: News: Vivid memories, but is 9/11's impact fading? 09/11/04



> &#8220;Suzanne Calley died aboard American Airlines Flight 77 when terrorists hijacked the plane and sent it crashing into the Pentagon... Rescue crews were able to pull Calley&#8217;s body from Flight 77&#8217;s wreckage.
> 
> Jensen [Calley&#8217;s husband] spent last year&#8217;s anniversary of the national tragedy in Washington, D.C. There, a Pentagon official - assigned to Calley&#8217;s family as a liaison - gave Jensen his wife&#8217;s wedding ring, which had been recovered from the plane.&#8221;



GilroyDispatch.com | 9-11 sorrow, but a joyful life

So I guess beforehand, after all the passengers checked in,the government secretly took over the plane, killed the passengers, then took a few mementos and sped over to the Pentagon from Dulles and planted them in the wreckage of the "missile," all within half an hour from when the plane was supposed to have taken off to when a "missile" slammed into the building.


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## LA RAM FAN (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> SFC Ollie said:
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> > Absolutely amazing, now Eots has another empty accusation without any links to the actual proof. NTSB said what? Where is this posted by the NTSB? In other words...Produce the NTSB report or we know that once again.......*YOU LIE!!!!!!*
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disinfo agent ollie exposes himself having no interest in the truth as always.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 7, 2009)

Toro said:


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 you would also think that the Pentagon has it's security taps so that when an event takes place that event can be investigated and then the facts of that case aftyer a certain amount of time can be released to the public. Also all footage from outside sources that took place in the flight path have been confiscated. Wouldn't it just be easier to prove it was a plane just by showing the footage to the public and clearing up their story....otherwise i guess there must be something to hide?


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


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well actually they claim they did not recover the black boxes from the towers
but they did indeed find a passport the very next day and the body of john O'Neil



*
frontline: the man who knew | PBS*

In his final hours on the job, O'Neill signs an authorization for the FBI to return to Yemen. Calling Fran Townsend at the Justice Department from his desk, O'Neill explains, "I wasn't leaving here until I did it, because I promised that we would send them back. When I pulled them out, I had to. But I was determined to be the one who signed the piece of paper to send them back."

O'Neill also e-mails Lou Gunn, whose son had died in the Cole attack, to tell him that he was retiring, but that the FBI was returning to Yemen.


Late August 2001
   New Job: The World Trade Center

 According to Chris Isham, O'Neill recognized the threat still posed to the World Trade Center. "When he had first gotten the job at the World Trade Center, he told me, 'I've got this great job. I'm head of security at the World Trade Center.' And I joked with him and said, 'Well, that will be an easy job. They're not going to bomb that place again.' And he said, 'Well actually -- he immediately came back and he said, 'actually they've always wanted to finish that job. I think they're going to try again." 


Sept. 10, 2001
   Intimations

 On the eve of Sept. 11, O'Neill is with friends on the town. According to Jerry Hauer, O'Neill warns him that night: "We're due for something big." O'Neill explains, "I don't like the way things are lining up in Afghanistan." Still, O'Neill tells friends that he is happy about his new job. "[It] doesn't get better than this," he says.


Sept. 11, 2001
   Two Hijacked Planes Hit World Trade Center Towers

 O'Neill is in his 34th floor office in the North Tower at 8:46 a.m. when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into it. Among others, O'Neill calls Valerie James once he is outside the building. He asks her what hit the building and tells her, "Val, it's horrible. There are body parts everywhere." A few seconds later he tells her, "Okay, I'll call you in a little bit." O'Neill also sends a text message to Fran Townsend to report that he is okay. 

In the minutes after the attack, O'Neill makes his way to the command center that had been set up. There he sees FBI agent Wesley Wong. Wong would tell Esquire magazine later, "He was in FBI mode. Then he turned and kind of looked at me and went toward the interior of the complex. From the time John walked away to the time the building collapsed was certainly not more than a half hour or 20 minutes." Wong is the last person to see him alive.


Sept. 28, 2001
   Memorial Service for O'Neill

 A week after his body is found in the debris of the South Tower, about a thousand mourners attend John O'Neill's service in Atlantic City.



frontline: the man who knew: his life and and career: a chronology of john oneills life and fbi career | PBS


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## Tom Clancy (Dec 7, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


> Tom Clancy said:
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Right because Physics and Facts aren't credible sources. 

Have you even the videos i posted before explaining how the Towers fell and how WTC also fell? 

Or, are you scared that watching those videos will make you think and make you realize you're in idiot and that you were always *Wrong.*


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## Toro (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> you would also think that the Pentagon has it's security taps so that when an event takes place that event can be investigated and then the facts of that case aftyer a certain amount of time can be released to the public. Also all footage from outside sources that took place in the flight path have been confiscated. Wouldn't it just be easier to prove it was a plane just by showing the footage to the public and clearing up their story....otherwise i guess there must be something to hide?



The Pentagon has lots to hide.

But why do think that what they are trying to hide is a missile?

The Pentagon is a national security building.  Do you think the only thing the military would try to hide is whether or not a missile hit the Pentagon?

If they believed that national security would be compromised by showing what was inside the Pentagon, as no doubt is the case, releasing tapes to satisfy what they would consider to be a bunch of nutter truthers who would NEVER believe them anyways is pretty low on their list of priorities.


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 7, 2009)

9/11 inside job said:


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Where is the NTSB report? Show me the truth idiot. I want you to show me and you cannot do so. Once again empty accusations.


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

Toro said:


> Jay Canuck said:
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> > you would also think that the Pentagon has it's security taps so that when an event takes place that event can be investigated and then the facts of that case aftyer a certain amount of time can be released to the public. Also all footage from outside sources that took place in the flight path have been confiscated. Wouldn't it just be easier to prove it was a plane just by showing the footage to the public and clearing up their story....otherwise i guess there must be something to hide?
> ...



bullshit..anyone could drive by and photgraph the pentagon and the nutter truthers you speak of are men like this lets not forget

Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret)  Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter.  U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech).   Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology.  22-year Air Force career.  Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University. 
Member: Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: 

"Scholars and professionals with various kinds of expertise---including architects, engineers, firefighters, intelligence officers, lawyers, medical professionals, military officers, philosophers, religious leaders, physical scientists, and pilots---have spoken out about radical discrepancies between the official account of the 9/11 attacks and what they, as independent researchers, have learned. 

They have established beyond any reasonable doubt that the official account of 9/11 is false and that, therefore, the official investigations have really been cover-up operations. 

Thus far, however, there has been no response from political leaders in Washington or, for that matter, in other capitals around the world. Our organization, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, has been formed to help bring about such a response. 

We believe that the truth about 9/11 needs to be exposed now---not in 50 years as a footnote in the history books---so the policies that have been based on the Bush-Cheney administrations interpretation of the 9/11 attacks can be changed. 

We are, therefore, calling for a new, independent investigation of 9/11 that takes account of evidence that has been documented by independent researchers but thus far ignored by governments and the mainstream media." 


Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash.  Its impossible.  Theres a second group of facts having to do with the cover up.  Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government dont want us to know what happened and whos responsible. 

Who gained from 9/11?  Who covered up crucial information about 9/11?  And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place?  When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that its highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney. 

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen.  Now some people will say thats much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder."  http://video.go 


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:     
"We want truthful answers to question.   As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things: 
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer 
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings. 
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence. 
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry." http://www.911truth.org/article 



Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth  Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers." 


Website


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## Tom Clancy (Dec 7, 2009)

You keep posting the same thing, This person wants to know this, this person wants to know that, Call for an investigation.

But yet again.. No facts proving there were bombs in WTC 1-2 and WTC 7.


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 7, 2009)

Toro said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > you would also think that the Pentagon has it's security taps so that when an event takes place that event can be investigated and then the facts of that case aftyer a certain amount of time can be released to the public. Also all footage from outside sources that took place in the flight path have been confiscated. Wouldn't it just be easier to prove it was a plane just by showing the footage to the public and clearing up their story....otherwise i guess there must be something to hide?
> ...




I'm quite certain that G2 (security) at the pentagon had many people going around that morning doing nothing except securing every piece of loose paper they could find. God knows how much classified material was floating around out there.


----------



## rightwinger (Dec 7, 2009)

Pray tell eots..

How do you explain the bodies of Flight 77 passengers recovered from the Pentagon?

Are you claiming that the loved ones of those passengers buried and mourned the wrong bodies?

Are you calling them suckers?


----------



## Trojan (Dec 7, 2009)

So the current theory is that the ninja turtles faked had this enormous elaborate and diobolic sceme and the forgot to correct the FDR data?  

I thought you guys claimed the FDR data was fake?  Now you accept it?


----------



## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

rightwinger said:


> pray tell eots..
> 
> How do you explain the bodies of flight 77 passengers recovered from the pentagon?
> 
> ...



the bodies recovered were pentagon employees the rest were apparently identified through DNA evidence...which could easily be manipulated ..but the fact is that has nothing to do with the evidence in the flight data recorder..it is what it is..have an independent investigation of 9/11 and release all evidence and lets find the answers


----------



## Toro (Dec 7, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> You keep posting the same thing, This person wants to know this, this person wants to know that, Call for an investigation.
> 
> But yet again.. No facts proving there were bombs in WTC 1-2 and WTC 7.



Yes, that is exactly right.  eots is a C&P master!

Notice that his post above didn't have anything to do with the Pentagon.  Its guys saying there should be another investigation.  That's his rebuttal.


----------



## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

Notice how you attempt to distract from the evidence in the flight data


----------



## Tom Clancy (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> Notice how you attempt to distract from the evidence in the flight data



What evidence? 

You don't post Facts, you post what this person wants to know and to call for an Investigation. 

I feel like i'm repeating myself over and over.. 




Toro said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > You keep posting the same thing, This person wants to know this, this person wants to know that, Call for an investigation.
> ...



Exactly.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > pray tell eots..
> ...




I thought you had claimed that you had a study of the recorders and that they proved the plane did not hit the Pentagon? Now you know you cannot have it both ways either you have this proof or you don't. Now once again go tell those families that their loved ones did not die at the pentagon.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 7, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...



Where is the plane , the crew and the passengers? If the plane was never hijacked and never crashed into the Pentagon why did it descend on radar and disappear? Where did the black box come from? Where did the DNA evidence come from? How did a plane that size fly below radar tracking through a city without being seen and reported? Where did it eventually land? Who actually made the phone call to the Cabinet member claiming to be his wife? Who killed the passengers and secretly seeded their DNA in the Pentagon? Who flew the plane to this secret undisclosed location below radar tracking so that everyone could be escorted off and murdered?

If the door was never opened then in order to get the black box means the original pilots flew the aircraft below radar detection to some secret location to be processed for DNA to be planted at the Pentagon. They were either murdered there after WILLINGLY doing as told or they are secretly still alive hiding some where. Further since the black box data is not claimed to show no crash then in reality THEY must have crashed the plane somewhere so the black boxes could be recovered and secretly transported to the pentagon site.

Getting the idea yet?


----------



## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



getting the Idea yet ? RGS has no clue..the flight data does not say there was no hijacking it says the flight door was never opened... why cant we see the videos of the pentagon on 9/11 ?  why is there so much conflicting eyewitness testimony..why was it not taken under oath and cross examined ? what about the credable reports of two other planes.. why are here pentagon employees that day they saw the plane fly over 100 ft up after the impact.?.why are there several military  eyewitness that dispute the official story ?  why has there been no real investigation..why did the FAA destroy evidence ? why was no one charged..what of the testimony of a stand down order..why did the plane unessesarly circle a hit the recently reinforced section of the pentagon ?...where the hell is bin laden ????why does no one even care ? why was the 9/11 commision a cover-up ? why did the lead investigator from nist say his investigation was blocked and fact finding deterred ?


----------



## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



why do you fuck off with you disingenuous bullshit instead..the families were the driving force behind the 9/11 investigation and are the driving force behind demanding a re-investigation..why don't you tell them they are toofer morons you asshole...you and glen beck

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf33g9ep4YU[/ame]


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## Fizz (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> 9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible
> 
> PilotsFor911Truth
> November 29, 2009
> ...



the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal. what the "independent researcher" fails to say is that not only did the sensor not detect an open door (since there was no sensor connected) during the entire flight of flight 77 but it also didnt detect an open door in the entire 42 hours prior to the flight.


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

And where is this source from ?


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## Fizz (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> And where is this source from ?



from my memory. i remember reading it. feel free to look it up if you like.

it sure does help when people look for logical solutions to what may be strange information before jumping to wild conspiracy conclusions.


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## Fizz (Dec 7, 2009)

it would be simple enough to see if the door sensor worked by checking if the door was ever actually opened.


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## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

you remember it... fuck off..you want to post this statement prove it


----------



## Fizz (Dec 7, 2009)

eots said:


> you remember it... fuck off..you want to post this statement prove it



see, this is the problem with you twoofers. you require no proof of a conspiracy. yet when someone calls you on the carpet as saying the data you have is bogus you ask for the proof.

so why dont YOU prove the door was ever opened at all and it was a working sensor?

anyway, here is the NTSB report. http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf
read through it all you like. you will find that AA77 was a 757-2.

the flight data recorder was upgraded to a 757-3 at some point and had more available parameters even though not all of them would provide data without the sensors. so therefore the data read the door was closed all the time (or open all the time depending on whether the door closed was equivalent to a 1 or a 0 in the data).

you can believe me or you can believe the guy in australia. i dont see how he is any more qusalified to read the data than me but you make your own choice.

or even better yet, you could look at the available data yourself.


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## Liability (Dec 7, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > you remember it... fuck off..you want to post this statement prove it
> ...



"you could look at the available data yourself"

Id-eots couldn't understand it, however.  He's essentially a barely functional retard.

Id-eots WILL always blindly accept ANY "conspiracy" shit offered by anybody provided that whatever the conspiracy _du jour_ is, it lines up with his preconceived ID-eotic beliefs.  No proof, evidence or logic required -- and none of any possible use to that tool.


----------



## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > you remember it... fuck off..you want to post this statement prove it
> ...


----------



## Fizz (Dec 7, 2009)

page 1-6 to page 1-13 of the document i gave you a link to gives a list of all the parameters that are unavailable. you will see EICAS L/R-A-1 FLT DECK DOOR listed on page 1-7 in the list of parameters unavailable.

there's your proof.


----------



## eots (Dec 7, 2009)

Liability said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



oh fuck off moron dont pretend you ever heard of any of this before I informed you..all you supply is inane comments because other than some 30 sec sound bites on t.v your knowleadge of these subjects is ZERO..your a joke


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## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

your claim was there was no port for the door sensor


----------



## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> you remember it... fuck off..you want to post this statement prove it



Says the one who makes false Claims and can't back it up. 

*Yawn...*


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## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > you remember it... fuck off..you want to post this statement prove it
> ...



you are another piece of work..not a brain cell between you and liarability..you have nothing to add and do not even have the benefit of posing an intellectual challenge to me ..what so ever ..don't pretend..while I may disagree with fizz interpretation of the data...you barely have a clue what we are even debating


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> your claim was there was no port for the door sensor



yeah, thats what i said.

are you still claiming the door data is valid?


----------



## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

Eots, I've clearly showed you evidence by using Scientific reasoning into account on how WTC 1-2 and WTC fell.  But you didn't even respond to the posts that showed it. 


I'm waiting on your Sources.. _Sources aren't people saying there needs to be an investigation, or that this guy says this or that.. Or showing me that Glenn Beck video.. What's the deal with him? I see Liberals and Left wingers loathing him.. You guys make it seem he's running for President, so what the fuck do we care what he says.._


----------



## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> Eots, I've clearly showed you evidence by using Scientific reasoning into account on how WTC 1-2 and WTC fell.  But you didn't even respond to the posts that showed it.
> 
> 
> I'm waiting on your Sources.. _Sources aren't people saying there needs to be an investigation, or that this guy says this or that.. Or showing me that Glenn Beck video.. What's the deal with him? I see Liberals and Left wingers loathing him.. You guys make it seem he's running for President, so what the fuck do we care what he says.._



you would not know scientific reasoning if it bit you on the ass and you disregard the fact that the lead investigator at NIST has denounced the very theories you cut and pasted..these people however do understand scientific reasoning..clown and the subject was flight data and the pentagon not wtc 1and 2

*Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation*

Summary: *Seven senior Federal engineers and scientists call for a new 9/11 investigation and denounce the official account of 9/11 as: "impossible", "hogwash", "fatally flawed", "false", "does not match the available facts", and "politically driven".*
These senior engineers and scientists served in the Federal government for decades.  Their primary functions were the responsible application of technology and the pursuit of scientific truth.  Their statements demonstrate that the desire for a new, thorough, and independent investigation of 9/11 is not a matter of partisan politics, nor the demand of irresponsible, deranged, or disloyal Americans.  It is instead a matter of the utmost importance for America&#8217;s security and the future of the entire world.  We must not now ignore their stunning condemnation of the official account of 9/11.


OpEdNews - Article: Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation


*National Academy of Sciences Member Calls for New 9/11 Investigation
Official Explanation a "Fraud"*
Summary: Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., member of the National Academy of Sciences and world renowned scientist, characterized the official account of 9/11 as "a fraud" and called for a new investigation, "I suggest that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial investigation be undertaken." 

OpEdNews - Article: National Academy of Sciences Member Calls for New 9/11 Investigation




Quintiere, Ph.D., former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division, called for an independent review of the World Trade Center Twin Tower collapse investigation. "I wish that there would be a peer review of this," he said, referring to the NIST investigation. "I think all the records that NIST has assembled should be archived. I would really like to see someone else take a look at what they've done; both structurally and from a fire point of view. ... I think the official conclusion that NIST arrived at is questionable." 


OpEdNews - Article: Former Chief of NIST's Fire Science Division Calls for Independent Review of World Trade Center Investigation


*to name just a few..*


----------



## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > your claim was there was no port for the door sensor
> ...



are you still claiming there was no sensor


----------



## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

Thank you Eots for proving my point. 

No Evidence nor Facts, just the same thing over and over.. 



> Calls for New 9/11 Investigation


Oh yes! Then it must be true. 


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTNRkb7AaQk[/ame]



*Human Remains. WARNING: Explicit Images. You have been Warned. Enter at YOUR own Risk.*
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/humanremains.html


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



do you have any idea what you are talking about or are you just babbling for the sake of babbling?

i never said if there was a door sensor or not. i said there was no port. the door sensor would be wired to the flight data acquisition unit. the flight data acquisition unit sends the info to the flight data recorder. even though there is a port on the flight data recording unit for the door, since the flight data recorder was an updated unit, there was no port on the flight data acquisition unit.

now you got it?

so you want to tell us again how the hijacking of flight 77 is impossible because the flight data recorder says the door was never opened even though the flight data recorder clearly has that parameter unavailable? 

this all would have been much easier and less complicated if you simply looked at the link i gave you and say that no door sensor was being recorded. 

p.s. we are talking software port or timeslot. not an actual pin connection like on the FDAU.


----------



## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> Thank you Eots for proving my point.
> 
> No Evidence nor Facts, just the same thing over and over..
> 
> ...




dude your a waste of time ..its ridiculous..yes indeed its true there needs to be an Indepndent investigation even the lead investigator of NIST agrees wih this..do you even know what NIST is ???


----------



## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Eots for proving my point.
> ...



I'm a waste of time because i come at you with Evidence Debunking your crazy conspiracy's. 

You're in Denial. You're a Disgrace. 

NIST: National Institute of Standards and Technology.  Not Rocket Science.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > slackjawed said:
> ...





Lol.....just as much to gain?  You can't be serious.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> Truthers:9/11 Truth movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Liars? Not generally.  Brainwashed? Some are absolutely brainwashed.  Those people don't even entertain the idea our government was complicit or actively in a role.  When you don't even allow the possibility for something that has a proven track record yes you are brainwashed
.


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## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Truthers:9/11 Truth movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Oh boy here comes another one.. 

I compared many other events where the Government was part of it.. 

"What a real conspiracy looks like. Real conspiracies have very few players and even then, they are usually exposed. Enron, Watergate, Iran/Contra and the rest have few people involved and someone always comes out to blow the whistle."



> Conspiracy theorists say this is proof that the administration needed to create a "Pearl Harbor". But if they did blow up the towers, why would they go to such great lengths to point to Bin Laden? Why not fix evidence to point to Saddam? Conspiracy theorists say they needed terrorism to perpetuate an endless war.
> 
> To take away our freedoms to fight this war. But Bin Laden wasn't the only way to do it. "They" could have planted evidence suggesting Bin Laden was working for Saddam. Why not? Remember, if they are setting up Bin Laden then why not set up Saddam at the same time? He wasn't "a few Arabs in the desert."  He had an army and millions from oil profits.  Why allow people to say "Saddam wasn't the one to attack us"?  There would have been far fewer players if they placed a nuclear device in the towers  basements and took out lower Manhattan.
> 
> The government could have blamed Saddam's fictitious WMD for the device and Bin Laden for the delivery.  We would have reason to invade Iraq the next day. Conspiracy theorists would have us believe they chose a plan which involves thousands over smaller,  more controllable plans.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...




Where in the hell have you been?  Do I really need to show how many time the bush admin tried to tie saddam to 9E?  Your list of q+a is bullshit. You can't use questions specifically designed to get the answer you want then use that as evidence you supported your claim.  Not too many things are more annoying than redneck quality esoteric ramblings.


----------



## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



What more lies and Conspiracy's? 

I wasn't the one who wrote that just to let you know, that's why i put it in a quote. 

We are talking about 9/11. Which honestly you can't Prove *NOTHING* about the 9/11 Attacks. 

Hell, your buddy Eots there likes to keep posting about people saying we need an investigation.. And *Yet* he has to come at me with facts.. 

How many times do i have to repeat myself?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

getting a little off topic with the saddam stuff, i think.

the "impossible" has once again been proved possible.....

the "proof" that the door never was opened, like most of the other twoofer evidence, is just a bunch of people talking out of their ass that have no idea what they are talking about. the flight data recorder wasnt monitoring the door. end of story.


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> you remember it... fuck off..you want to post this statement prove it



double standard alert


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 8, 2009)

here's another reason to investigate....
Elvis Seen in Flying Saucer with Aliens....Again! (article) by Kalikiano Kalei on AuthorsDen

elvis and the aliens did it, or were at least there.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 8, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



Still waiting. Ohh and I would like to know when the black box started monitoring the door to the cockpit. Further I want ACTUAL data from a FACTUAL source that shows A) the door was monitored and B) that it was never opened.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Clancy said:
> ...




It doesn't matter if you personally wrote the q+a list or not as it doesn't change the strawman nature that also ignores the fact saddam was mentioned in connection so much with 9E that many people, civilians and soldiers believed he played a role in the attacks.


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> > That's exactly right, Space aliens blasted the hole in the building and those evil midgets working with the bush administration cleaned up all traces of the space missle that actually blew the hole.
> ...



Great idea, asshole. 

 Answer a lunatic with reason and logic, because reason and logic means so much to a lunatic.  

Moron, we SAW the aircraft crash into the buildings.

Did I mention that you are a stain?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> getting a little off topic with the saddam stuff, i think.
> 
> the "impossible" has once again been proved possible.....
> 
> the "proof" that the door never was opened, like most of the other twoofer evidence, is just a bunch of people talking out of their ass that have no idea what they are talking about. the flight data recorder wasnt monitoring the door. end of story.




Is there a link showing the fdr was not on the fdd?  I've seen conflicting info showing the door was monitored.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...




Because the Families are not saying that the plane did not hit the pentagon, you are. The families have laid their loved ones remains to rest, You want to claim that they didn't die at the pentagon. So go ahead and tell those families that. And still waiting to see this report that proves the door was never opened.......Official report that is.


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 8, 2009)

Eots your OP has been busted, why can't you admit it? Are you that insecure with this whole thing?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




Another stellar example of how ignorant some OCTAs are.  Victims families have been the driving force of the truth movement so your little attempt at emotional string pulling only shows how you don't know what the hell you are talking about.   Many families and first responders have already pointed out they want a new investigation and they do not accept the OCT as a starting point.  They want a new investigation with zero assumptions:


Q: Will the new Commission have a bias or pre-determined conclusion about the events of September 11?

The investigation will commence from a starting point of zero assumption or bias about the events of September 11. The investigation will be fact-driven and will use only the most rigorous legal standards for establishing the truth about those tragic events. 
NYC Coalition For Accountability Now


----------



## SFC Ollie (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...




Ah it's curvelight, I took you off ignore just yesterday. Now why don't you tell us, without any conclusions,  Did flight 77 hit the Pentagon or is there truly any proof that it did not. Also can you show me one family member who lost a loved one on that flight who believes that the plan did not hit the Pentagon? Or of course will you dodge this question again?


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## slackjawed (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm telling you sfcollie, aliens blasted the hole and evil midgets working for bush cleaned up all traces of it. The passengers were then taken to an alien planet to bred into a super race of midgets that are even more evil to then take over the world. These midgets are being trained on this alien planet by Elvis, the term 'king' was not just a nickname. Everything is connected. If you wait for me to build a website or at least post on a message board, I can prove all that.


----------



## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

Toro said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > you would also think that the Pentagon has it's security taps so that when an event takes place that event can be investigated and then the facts of that case aftyer a certain amount of time can be released to the public. Also all footage from outside sources that took place in the flight path have been confiscated. Wouldn't it just be easier to prove it was a plane just by showing the footage to the public and clearing up their story....otherwise i guess there must be something to hide?
> ...



the Pentagon has lots to hide huh??? - no ones asking for a look inside just the outside footage of the crash.

I never said I thought a missile hit the Pentagon so don't put words in my mouth thank you very much.

and lastly nice try to deflect what the American public has a right to know by calling the American public nutters for just wanting the truth ...apparently you don't feel their loss and sacrifice during and after this tragedy entitles them to the truth


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

I see slackjawed is still babbling about midgets and foolishness.....he is a real credit to the official story hardliners.


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## slackjawed (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm not an official story hardliner either. Are you sure midgets are harmless? or even human?
foolishness is fun and has its purpose


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




You ignore the provided info only to demand new jumping hoops?  I don't think so.  If you won't address the facts provided then what is the point of a conversation?


----------



## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

First of all it's little people.
They are not all harmless....I know this from personal experience
I am pretty sure they are human.
Foolishness is fun and does serve a purpose.

Since we're not in the flame zone or humor forum can we get back to the topic now.... with your permission of course?


----------



## Toro (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...



WTF do you know?  I knew people who died in the WTC.  I watched that day knowing people in that building who were dying.  I came close to accepting a position with a company that was in the WTC eight months before the towers came down.  For a day, I thought I had cheated death because I assumed they were all dead, but since they were on the 31st floor, all got out alive.  Fortunately.  So don't fucking tell me that I don't feel their loss and sacrifice.

This isn't an issue for the American "public."  The government already had a hearing on what happened.  Some don't accept the findings, which is no surprise since some don't believe a plane actually hit the WTC.  It's not an issue down here, except for the *nutters* who have elevated it to a religion.


----------



## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible
> ...




This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...

According to http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagaz...nly/s01txt.html

Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32. 

The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80.

Flight 77 = N644AA 2460 

Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991

FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry

N644AA = AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991

So N644AA has been updated before August 18, 2001


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## slackjawed (Dec 8, 2009)

little people are human, evil midgets, they are a separate alien race.
Satan's Stubby Little Toes - Evil Midgets > Home

I would like to also bring to your attention bill cooper, there is something about him connected to this 911 thing. 
the pale horse guy


----------



## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

Toro said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...



shut up...liar


----------



## Toro (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> shut up...liar



You're supposed to cut and paste 47 pages of people asking for an inquiry id-eots.


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

Toro said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > shut up...liar
> ...



Game. Set. Match; Toro!


----------



## eots (Dec 8, 2009)

Toro said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > shut up...liar
> ...



you forgot to mention that these 47 pages are of people are esteemed government researchers and high ranking military who held positions critical to national security as well as members of the NIST investigation and 9/11 commission


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## Terral (Dec 8, 2009)

Hi Eots:



eots said:


> 9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible



No kidding. Any AA77 hijacking was completely IMPOSSIBLE, because that flight (like AA11) WAS CANCELED on 9/11. Anyone wanting to examine the evidence can go to my *9/11 Pentagon Timeline* (here) and click on the very first entry:



> 1. *8:10 AM* American Airlines Flight #77 and Flight #11 tail numbers never assigned = never took off (link).


Detailed Statistics Departures << *Click on over-sized chart
* 
You can see the *'Departure Statistics*' for AA77 in the second row. The "*Carrier Code*" identifies "*AA*" as in "American Airlines" on the "*09/11/2001*" Date. The '*Tail Number*' is "UNKNOWN," because the airport personnel assigned the task of writing down the tail number NEVER SAW AA 77 enter the runway. Yes, the "*Scheduled Departure Time*" is 8:10 AM, but the "*Actual Departure Time*" is "00.00," because most of the scheduled American Airline Flights on this page WERE CANCELED. There is no "*Wheels-off Time*," because the AA77 Flight WAS CANCELED. There is no "*Taxi-out Time*," because the AA77 Flight WAS CANCELED. 

The FBI assigned 9/11 Victims seats on CANCELED Flights, because We The Sheeple are STUPID and will believe ANYTHING (#8). 




eots said:


> PilotsFor911Truth
> November 29, 2009
> 
> Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled &#8220;FLT DECK DOOR&#8221;, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.



All of this *NTSB Evidence* (AA77 Flight Study) was provided by *the corrupt FBI*, that not only planned the 9/11 attacks, but also has been running the *Counterintelligence Disinformation Cover Story Campaign* since LONG before the attacks took place on 9/11. Jim Ritter (NTSB) is a FBI Counterintelligence STOOGE selling Loyal Bushie/Obama Official Cover Story LIES. We know this for a FACT, because the Flight Study Data includes the FBI-produced Flight Data Recorder Evidence that places their bogus AA77 OUTSIDE PENTAGON AIRSPACE at the very time that the FAA Timeline says the aircraft struck the Pentagon (see Barbara Honegger's Famous Paper) at *9:32 AM!!!!!*

FAA Timeline << Click Here To See The *FAA Timeline*

9:31 << Click Here And Read *My 9:31 Post*



eots said:


> On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time.
> 
> According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 0854 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45.



Bullony!!!! All of the FBI-produced data is BOGUS. Period! The FBI is responsible for the murder of innocent Americans and every word out of their collective mouths about 9/11 IS A LIE. As we have already seen, AA77 NEVER TOOK OFF and you will find the same exact 911Truth with AA11!!!!! Both *Flight 93* (story) 'and' *Flight 175* (story) *landed in Cleveland, Ohio*, but the corrupt FBI changed the flight manifests to include the 9/11 Victims murdered by the corrupt FBI, CIA and NSA under the auspices of the corrupt Department Of Defense and Donald Rumsfeld 'and' the Justice Department and John Ashcroft 'and' Dickless Cheney and mastermind Karl Rove hiding in plain sight over at Fox News. 

Look at the claim above saying that the aircraft crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37:45 AM, when the FAA Timeline just said the aircraft crashed into the west side of the Pentagon at *9:32 AM!!!! *The FBI cannot change their Cover Story, because they already provided the NTSB with the BOGUS AA77 Flight Data Recorder Evidence that they drafted as part of the Official Govt Cover Story!!! Your OP "Pilots For Truth" information is tainted with Official Cover Story NONSENSE, which renders any claims and conclusions 'mute' ... Period.

GL,

Terral


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

Toro said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...


 


wow!.... I guess if all of what you said is true that gives you the right to say to America - *"This isn't an issue for the American "public."?*


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?

this is the question that it would seem so many here fear........


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

one could answer - they used torches.


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?
> 
> this is the question that it would seem so many here fear........



how do you know it was closed...

i like the other argument....the flight was cancelled and everyone murdered.....lol....


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?
> ...



how do you know it was open?


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...



i don't know either and neither do you.....


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

that's true but the information provided at the begining of this thread says it wasn't so I am going to try and find a way to answer that question with a little help from the rest of you who post here.


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> that's true but the information provided at the begining of this thread says it wasn't so I am going to try and find a way to answer that question with a little help from the rest of you who post here.



the information is a claim provided by a blogger....it is no better than a calim made by you or i....hell terell says the flight was cancelled....


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## slackjawed (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > that's true but the information provided at the begining of this thread says it wasn't so I am going to try and find a way to answer that question with a little help from the rest of you who post here.
> ...



or a claim that aliens did it and evil midgets cleaned it up....
see i am relevent.


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...



i like terrels claim the best...the plane never existed nor did the people on it....same goes for the the one that crashed in that field....

it just never happened...


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...




Fizz fucked up because he demonstrated how most OCTAs react to new info.  Instead of an honest search they look for the first thing that can be used to claim the info is wrong.  Someone who is truly interested in the facts will not run with the first thing that they think helps their position.  Of course, FFAs* do the same thing as demonstrated with this op because other than that one 9E Truth site I've not seen this FDR info verified. (false flag apologists*). So I will do something really fucking strange and withhold a verdict until this fdr data can be confirmed as true or false.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled FLT DECK DOOR, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the* Freedom Of Information Act.*



so this information can be verified - then if it is verified the next step would be to find another unbiased credible source to confirm or deny the original findings.


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled FLT DECK DOOR, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the* Freedom Of Information Act.*
> so this information can be verified - then if it is verified the next step would be to find another unbiased credible source to confirm or deny the original findings.



and there is a counter claim by a blogger on usmb....the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal. what the "independent researcher" fails to say is that not only did the sensor not detect an open door (since there was no sensor connected) during the entire flight of flight 77 but it also didnt detect an open door in the entire 42 hours prior to the flight.


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled FLT DECK DOOR, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the* Freedom Of Information Act.*
> 
> 
> 
> so this information can be verified - then if it is verified the next step would be to find another unbiased credible source to confirm or deny the original findings.



you people crack me up.

the data the guy is using is from the NTSB using the black boxes. one of the paramaters listed as being unavailable is the flight deck door. the data wasnt being recorded. this information isnt new to anyone except the blogger that misinterpreted what he was looking at.

jesus, just look at the info yourself.

anyone still arguing that the flight deck door was never opened doesnt have a fucking clue as to what they are talking about.


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## slackjawed (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled FLT DECK DOOR, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the* Freedom Of Information Act.*
> ...



or the door never opened because the aliens did it and elvis trained evil midgets cleaned it up, eliminating the need to fly the plane at all.


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## Terral (Dec 8, 2009)

Hi Mr. Fizz:



Fizz said:


> you people crack me up ...



Mr. Fizz confused is an *Official Cover Story Govt Stooge*. 







Here is Mr. Fizz's version of who pulled off these 9/11 attacks:






Nothing you say means anything ...

GL,

Terral


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## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Mr. Fizz:
> 
> 
> Here is Mr. Fizz's version of who pulled off these 9/11 attacks:
> ...



More like.


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



i fucked up by going to the source of the info? HAHAHAhahahaha!!! 

its here. http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf
take a look for yourself. take notice of page 1-7 and notice the flight deck door is listed. take notice of what category it is listed under.

last time i checked 1997 was before 2001. i'm not sure what you are on about with this. of the 22 parameters required to be recorded the flight deck door is not one of them.


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?
> 
> this is the question that it would seem so many here fear........



they didnt. they opened the door. sorry to inject logic into the conversation.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

have you gone to the site that is making these claims and posted your findings Fizz?


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> have you gone to the site that is making these claims and posted your findings Fizz?



no. not yet. i waste enough of my time here on this site.


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...




Changing your original claim already?  Your first objection had nothing to do with regulations or requirements.  Your first claim was to say the fdr model used was not technically capable of monitoring the door:

(fizz)
"the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal. what the "independent researcher" fails to say is that not only did the sensor not detect an open door (since there was no sensor connected) during the entire flight of flight 77 but it also didnt detect an open door in the entire 42 hours prior to the flight"


Now that eots posted the info showing the technical updates had already taken place you want to change your claim and pretend he didn't just smack the shit out of your first objection.


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> have you gone to the site that is making these claims and posted your findings Fizz?




I'm guessing that is where he got the info.  He isn't posting anything that isn't on those threads.  I thought he would have at least been honest.  How do I know?  On those other sites the same first objection is what he posted here about the fdr not being technically capable.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > have you gone to the site that is making these claims and posted your findings Fizz?
> ...



lets both go and I will back you up there until we get an answer to this?


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




except the report says that the door port wasn't working.....hard to tell if it is open or closed if the snensor wasn't working...


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...



i registered but cant post. its a 20 page thread but i dont see that anyone has looked at the NTSB site to see that the flight deck parameter was listed as unavailable. the guys definitely know what they are talking about with the flight recorders. i dont know how they could have missed that.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

"the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal. what the "independent researcher" fails to say is that not only did the sensor not detect an open door (since there was no sensor connected) during the entire flight of flight 77 but it also didnt detect an open door in the entire 42 hours prior to the flight"


ouch....well that takes care of that.


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



yeah, sorry. i should have gone into great detail about how everything actually goes through the FDAU before being sent to the FDR. 

the "pentagon hijack was impossible because the door was never opened" claim has been thoroughly shown to be a ridiculous claim. now who slapped the shit out of who again? 

try to muster up any victory you can if you like. 

it just goes to show you that the TWOOFERS arent really interested in the truth. they jsut look for any wild theory that supports their side no matter how absurd or untrue it is.


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## Godboy (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> "no ho many of you have gotten on a plane and the door was open and the engines running....and we all know pilots always follow the rules and programers never make mistakes a nor would this guy have any reason to "fudge" the data...."
> 
> not your analysis....an independent analysis from a source that is credible.



Any analysis that supports your wacky claims cant possibly be credible. Besides, what are you doing talking about this? Shouldnt you be making a tin foil hate right about now?


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> "the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal. what the "independent researcher" fails to say is that not only did the sensor not detect an open door (since there was no sensor connected) during the entire flight of flight 77 but it also didnt detect an open door in the entire 42 hours prior to the flight"
> 
> 
> ouch....well that takes care of that.



If you had read the official links above that were provided by eots you would have seen fizz fucked up on the claim the fdr could not monitor the door position.  It was updated to perform the task.


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > "the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal. what the "independent researcher" fails to say is that not only did the sensor not detect an open door (since there was no sensor connected) during the entire flight of flight 77 but it also didnt detect an open door in the entire 42 hours prior to the flight"
> ...



ok....explain the report where it said the port was not working ....


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

Godboy said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > "no ho many of you have gotten on a plane and the door was open and the engines running....and we all know pilots always follow the rules and programers never make mistakes a nor would this guy have any reason to "fudge" the data...."
> ...



it would seem that when the parents are out of your room you get to play.....oh well that's home schooling for ya.


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




Now you are being utterly dishonest.  Your first claim was the op is false because the fdr could not monitor the door.  When that claim is shown to be bullshit you pretend you never said it.


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > "the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal. what the "independent researcher" fails to say is that not only did the sensor not detect an open door (since there was no sensor connected) during the entire flight of flight 77 but it also didnt detect an open door in the entire 42 hours prior to the flight"
> ...



look at http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf and then tell me again how the flight deck door info is available. you are putting words into my mouth. i did NOT say that the FDR was incapable of doing it.

the proof is in front of your eyes. you simply are too blinded by your preconceived ideas to look at it. the port was not available. it was never configured. how can i make this any more simple for you to understand?

are you still trying to stick to the claim that the actual cockpit door was never opened?


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...



I'm interested in that part too....


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...



So that means you admit it was a mistake to claim the fdr could not monitor the door?

Here's the programmer's website with the fdr info:
NTSB FOIA Request Dated 2nd January 2009


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## rightwinger (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > pray tell eots..
> ...



Wrong again eots. The charred remains were passengers on Flight 77. They were identified by DNA and dental records. No...we are not talking flight data recorders..we are talking human beings with families who buried those remains, who mourn those last remains.

You are calling those families a bunch of suckers for cherishing the last remains of their loved ones. To do so on no available evidence is despicable


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> the TWOOFERS arent really interested in the truth. they jsut look for any wild theory that supports their side no matter how absurd or untrue it is.






> Now you are being utterly dishonest.  Your first claim was the op is false because the fdr could not monitor the door.  When that claim is shown to be bullshit you pretend you never said it.



it didnt say the FDR was incapable of monitoring the door. i said it had no port. are you really too dumb to know the difference? the port is software. it needs to be configured. you do realize that, right?


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...




I can't believe you're actually fucking straight up lying.  This is you specifically claiming the fdr was not capable of monitoring the door:

"the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal."

"the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal."

"the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal."

"the flight data recorder was manufactured in 1997. it had no port for the door sensor and therefore ALWAYS gave a closed signal."


Don't insult everyone's intelligence by trying to say you never made that claim.

Also, I never said the door was never opened so keep your strawman.  Hell, you even quoted the post where I said I'm withholding a verdict until solid evidence is provided.  All I did was point out your claim the op is false because the fdr could not monitor the door is bullshit.


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



the report states the port was not working.....


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## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



If the port was not working, could the fdr possibly record the open/closed door information?


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



it would record that that the port was not working which is what the report said....


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## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> 9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible
> 
> PilotsFor911Truth
> November 29, 2009
> ...


from the FDR they found INSIDE the PENTAGON


yeah sure
you guys are fucking stupid


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




I didn't know you are a farmer.  Or is cherry picking a hobby?  (it doesn't simply say it wasn't working....it says something else.....do you know what it says)


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



HAHAHAHAHA your an ass.

you repost what i said 4 times and you STILL get it wrong!!! why do you keep saying "not capable" instead of no port? it isnt the same thing, jackass.


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

these are the types of ports i am talking about, jackass:

"ach controller 30 includes a port multiplexer 38, a data register 40, controller test means 42, a memory controller 44, and memory test means 46. The port multiplexer 38 receives data and control signals on the data and control buses 34, 36, respectively, from a controller 30 in the preceding parallel pair of controller/memory modules 24 that has been predesignated as the active controller. However, if this designated controller 30 has failed the controller test, the other controller 30 in the preceding parallel pair of controller/memory modules 24 is the designated controller and the port multiplexer 38 receives the data and control signals from this controller. The data register 40 is a buffer for temporarily storing data and control signals before they are sent on to the following controller/memory modules 24 or for temporarily storing data before it is written to or after it is read from the memory module 32. The data register 40 is reset by the reset mode."


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




The report does not definitively say it wasn't working.


----------



## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



really.....was the port working then....it wasn't listed under those that were working....if it wasn't working then there is no way to determine if the door was open or closed....

you did read the report....


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> [
> If the port was not working, could the fdr possibly record the open/closed door information?



no. it would indicate all zeros. (could be all ones but i believe all zeros).


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




You're such a waste of a punk for trying to squeam your way out of this.  Anyone can see you claimed the fdr was manufactured without the ability to monitor the door therefore it showed the door as "...ALWAYS being closed."

Go ahead bitch, lie again you fucking waste.


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## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Ah.  So then, if the port wasn't working, it would be perfectly truthful and accurate to say that the fdr would not have been able to tell investigators whether or not the door ever did get opened....


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



and the point of this would prove the port is working....was not working....help me here.....


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> really.....was the port working then....it wasn't listed under those that were working....if it wasn't working then there is no way to determine if the door was open or closed....
> 
> you did read the report....



here is the report. http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf

i read it. everybody here is trying so hard to prove i said something wrong that they are losing the plot.

(the following is from memory so dont crucify me if its wrong!!)

attachment 1 lists ALL the parameters that can possibly be recorded. the first few pages (maybe 5 or 6 pages) have all the parameters that were recorded. then after that is a list of about 7 or 8 pages of parameters that were unavailable. the flight deck door is in the list of parameters that were unavailable. (the port was never configured most likely because all available ports were being used for other data.)

the door was never recorded.


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible
> ...




Another stellar example of an OCTA being ignorant.  The NTSB created its report with the help of using the fdr found inside the pentagon:

"American Airlines Flight 77 - Flight Profile

The following description of American Airlines Flight 77 is based on data from the

flight data recorder (FDR) recovered from the crash site..."
Q:\9-11 Commission\NTSB Docs\Doc 2 FPS AA77.tif


Yet you continue to call others stupid.....


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## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > really.....was the port working then....it wasn't listed under those that were working....if it wasn't working then there is no way to determine if the door was open or closed....
> ...




i did read it....and i agree with the analysis / report that states the port was not working therefore could not record what posistion the door was in....thus the blogger concludded that if there was no change in the status then the door was never opened....

all the other twit is doing is focusing on a word and avoiding the topic at hand...was the door open or closed....no way to tell as the port wasn't working....


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> You're such a waste of a punk for trying to squeam your way out of this.  Anyone can see you claimed the fdr was manufactured without the ability to monitor the door therefore it showed the door as "...ALWAYS being closed."
> 
> Go ahead bitch, lie again you fucking waste.



what squeaming? (not even sure thats a word).

you clearly have no idea what i am talking about. i didnt say it didnt have the ability. i said it had no port. its not the same thing. i never even once said it was manufactured without the ability to monitor the door. the door sensor doesnt even get connected to the FDR. it gets connected to the FDAU.


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## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



It is to show how he (and others including the op) reached a conclusion without respect for investigation. Here are the three different reasons fizz gave to prove the op false:

1. The fdr on flt 77 was manufactured without the ability to monitor the door thus showing the door would always be closed.

2. There were no mandatory parameters that said the cabin door had to be monitored.

3.  The fdr sensor for the cabin door was not working.  


It's the same bullshit jumping the gun which is why I've stated I've not reached a verdict on this because there was not enough credible info supporting the op.  It also shows what level people will sink to when shown a claim is bullshit.


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## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



yes. if the flight data recorder was not configured to be receiving the data the raw data would show the door continuously in one position (either open or closed depending on if the data was all ones or all zeros). 

if someone were to look at the raw data they would naturally assume the door was either never opened or never closed. the problem with that is that it wasnt being monitored. they probably should have checked that first but obviously didnt.


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## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> manu1959 said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...


because the cockpit voice recorder recorded the entry
thats how
you can HEAR them storm the cockpit, thus the door HAD to be opened for that to happen


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> It is to show how he (and others including the op) reached a conclusion without respect for investigation. Here are the three different reasons fizz gave to prove the op false:
> 
> 1. The fdr on flt 77 was manufactured without the ability to monitor the door thus showing the door would always be closed.
> 
> ...



not exactly right. 

1.the airplane was made in 1991. the flight data recorder was made in 1997. while the data recorder has the ability to record the flight deck door data it did not (therefore the confusion). this is mostly likely because although the FDR could record the data the plane, being manufactured six years earlier, was not capable of sending all the types of data that the FDR could record. OR they simply decided that some other data was more important to record instead of the door. therefore the port wasnt configured.

2. is correct.

3. i do not even know if there was a sensor for the cabin door. i do know it was not being monitored.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > You're such a waste of a punk for trying to squeam your way out of this.  Anyone can see you claimed the fdr was manufactured without the ability to monitor the door therefore it showed the door as "...ALWAYS being closed."
> ...




Even manu quoted your post claiming the fdr was not manufactured with the ability to monitor the door and concluded the op was false from your bogus claim.  I pointed him to eots' post with the links showing the fdr was updated then he moved on to asking if it was working.  Your lame ass port excuse is fucking weak.  Can't you at least try to entertain us while trying to avoid admitting you fucked up?  All you're doing is showing why people shouldn't take you seriously.


----------



## manu1959 (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



please prove the door was monitored and that it was never opened....and while you are at it explain the voice recording of the cockpit invasion....


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...


HOW DARE you use a GOVERNMENT site
they are PART of it


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...



if i remember correctly, the cockpit voice recorder was unusable because the tape melted into a solid block (or close to it).


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


you REALLY suck at reading comprehension


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


hey dumbfuck, if they "found the FDR INSIDE the PENTAGON" how the FUCK did it get there if it didnt crash INTO THE FUCKING PENTAGON????????????


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Even manu quoted your post claiming the fdr was not manufactured with the ability to monitor the door and concluded the op was false from your bogus claim.  I pointed him to eots' post with the links showing the fdr was updated then he moved on to asking if it was working.  Your lame ass port excuse is fucking weak.  Can't you at least try to entertain us while trying to avoid admitting you fucked up?  All you're doing is showing why people shouldn't take you seriously.



i told you the FDR was updated BEFORE eots did. my original post on the topic was that the FDR was from 1997.

if it will stop your silly distraction about what a "port" is i will admit that not only was my original post wrong but that i was the guy on the grassy knoll and i am the real murderer OJ simpson is looking for while golfing.

now will you shut up and admit the FDR wasnt monitoring the door?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> HOW DARE you use a GOVERNMENT site
> they are PART of it



but its the same agency that gave the guy the data that said the door was always closed!!


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...


you sure of that?
i'm pretty sure i heard the recording, but anyway, even if i am remembering incorrectly, and it was another of the flights they have the voice cockpit recorder from, they FOUND the FDR INSIDE the pentagon
LOL


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

interesting how troofers will use data from something they say didnt happen as proof it didnt happen


if flight 77 never crashed into the pentagon, how the fuck did they find this FDR INSIDE THE PENTAGON????????


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



not positive but pretty sure. i know that flight 93's voice recorder was ok. i know one of them was melted pretty good and unusable and i think it was flight 77.


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> interesting how troofers will use data from something they say didnt happen as proof it didnt happen
> 
> 
> if flight 77 never crashed into the pentagon, how the fuck did they find this FDR INSIDE THE PENTAGON????????



It was planted by the conspirators, but the conspirators are so bad at the conspiracy component of the conspiracy that they inadvertently left confusing data in the shit they planted which can be used to demonstrate that the incident never even happened in the first place!

Shit.  I think I'm really getting the hang of this Troofer stuff!


----------



## Tom Clancy (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > interesting how troofers will use data from something they say didnt happen as proof it didnt happen
> ...



Don't forget they put the burnt bodies there too.. *yawn*.. 

I can't believe this type of bullshit..


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Jay Canuck said:
> 
> 
> > manu1959 said:
> ...




You know the contents of the cvr?  Hmmm....

CBS News reported that "Preliminary information shows there is nothing that appears to be useful on the cockpit voice tape. The tape appears to be blank or erased."[84] In its report on the CVR, the NTSB identified the unit as an L-3 Communications, Fairchild Aviation Recorders model A-100A cockpit voice recorder; a device which records on magnetic tape. The NTSB reported that "The majority of the recording tape was fused into a solid block of charred plastic." No usable segments of tape were found inside the recorder.[85]


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

Tom Clancy said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...





In other words, for my made-up "Troofer" answer to fly, the Troofers would be required to make the claim that the conspirators planted bodies at the crash site and those bodies were either pre-burned OR got burned in the fires that never actually happened!

Man.  I guess being a Troofer requires more effort than I have given them credit for.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Dec 8, 2009)

Idiots.  Everybody knows they were beamed aboard from the transporter room of the Starship Enterprise.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




So for the fifth time let me point out I've never claimed the fdr proves the door was never opened.  I'm still looking for confirmation. Try to pay attention.


It's also fucking funny as hell you believe divecon without checking.  CVR results:

"No undamaged or usable segments of recording tape were found in the CVR recorder."
T8 B18 NTSB Documents 1 of 3 Fdr- CVR- Cockpit Voice Recorder Reports- AA 77 and UA 93 (Paperclipped Together)260

Flight 93 was the only cvr that had recoverable info.  How is it you defend the OCT but are ignorant of facts like this?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> interesting how troofers will use data from something they say didnt happen as proof it didnt happen
> 
> 
> if flight 77 never crashed into the pentagon, how the fuck did they find this FDR INSIDE THE PENTAGON????????




I guess you get so thrilled about trying to beat down others that you fail to miss the obvious: if this is true it contradicts the OCT and that is wholly independent of any claims that say it was not flt77 that hit the Pent.


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > interesting how troofers will use data from something they say didnt happen as proof it didnt happen
> ...



Failing to miss the obvious is usually considered a GOOD thing!


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

i was previously all for a new investigation into 9/11.

now this thread has given me some doubt as to whether that is a good idea or not. here we have someone that claims a flight cockpit door was never opened and the plane could never possibly have been hijacked. he never even bothered to check even the most basic background information to see if a door sensor was even being recorded.

now this ridiculous claim is spread all over the internet and so called "truth seekers" swallow it hook, line and sinker without any skepticism at all. its really quite scary.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > interesting how troofers will use data from something they say didnt happen as proof it didnt happen
> ...


what the fuck does OCT(October) have to do with this?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


yes, it is


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> Tom Clancy said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



Many experts have analyzed the fdr and have concluded it does not support the OCT by comparing the data to the claimed flight path.  I don't know if they are right or wrong but obviously the data must match up with the OCT or there is a big problem.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> i was previously all for a new investigation into 9/11.
> 
> now this thread has given me some doubt as to whether that is a good idea or not. here we have someone that claims a flight cockpit door was never opened and the plane could never possibly have been hijacked. he never even bothered to check even the most basic background information to see if a door sensor was even being recorded.
> 
> now this ridiculous claim is spread all over the internet and so called "truth seekers" swallow it hook, line and sinker without any skepticism at all. its really quite scary.


it would be nothing but a huge waste of time, money,and resources
these dumbfucks would reject it anyway


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > Jay Canuck said:
> ...


her dumbfuck, read post 175

then pull your head out of your ass so you can breath for a change


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> i was previously all for a new investigation into 9/11.
> 
> now this thread has given me some doubt as to whether that is a good idea or not. here we have someone that claims a flight cockpit door was never opened and the plane could never possibly have been hijacked. he never even bothered to check even the most basic background information to see if a door sensor was even being recorded.
> 
> now this ridiculous claim is spread all over the internet and so called "truth seekers" swallow it hook, line and sinker without any skepticism at all. its really quite scary.



You lying fuck.  I'm a truth seeker and I've clearly and repeatedly stated I don't know if the op claim is true.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




Good job on ignoring the point of the post.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > i was previously all for a new investigation into 9/11.
> ...



what makes you think i was talking about you?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


you prove that reading comprehension is not your strong suit


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...


his guilt complex


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > i was previously all for a new investigation into 9/11.
> ...



Helpfuil hint.  Truth seekers don't usually rely on lies.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




This is yet another example of you trying to backpedal and just like fizz, try to pretend you didn't make a definitive claim.  Let's see what you said in post 165:

(divecon)
"because the cockpit voice recorder recorded the entry
thats how
you can HEAR them storm the cockpit, thus the door HAD to be opened for that to happen"


There you are boldly claiming the op is wrong based on the recording of the cabin takeover.  The cvr never provided that info.  One of your OCTA buddies even believed you without checking the facts.  As always, you will leave a neg rep comment because you do it every time I show you are full of shit. All I ask is to please try and be entertaining.  Come up with some new names or something....


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




I'm a truth seeker and you know it.  Your claim was about ALL truth seekers, thus you were talking about me and all other truth seekers.  You guys are super fucking pathetic every time you make a claim that can't be supported you dig and dig to try and weasel your way out of taking responsibility for your own posts.  That is very childish but it also makes sense because you trust the government like a child trusts her parents.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> This is yet another example of you trying to backpedal and just like fizz, try to pretend you didn't make a definitive claim.  Let's see what you said in post 165:
> 
> (divecon)
> "because the cockpit voice recorder recorded the entry
> ...



right after he made that claim i said he was thinking about the wrong flights cockpit voice recorder and he admitted the mistake.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



So when have I relied on lies?  That is what OCTAs
 do regularly as proven just in the last three pages of this thread.  Divecon lied when he claimed the cvr proved the hijackers stormed the cockpit and other OCTAs immediately jumped on that wagon and totally believed it.  I believe fizz was the only one to point out that wasn't true.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


and i corrected myself in post 175 dumbfuck
so that proves you WRONG again


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > This is yet another example of you trying to backpedal and just like fizz, try to pretend you didn't make a definitive claim.  Let's see what you said in post 165:
> ...


dumbfuck(yes thats YOU curvelight) is too fucking stupid to understand


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


what the fuck are you talking about with "OCTA"
is that some fucked up troofer code or something?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



slow down. 

take a deep breathe.

relax for a minute.

now go back and read my post. i didnt say all truth seekers. i seek the truth too. so obviously i am not talking about all of them.

do you deny that truth seekers do swallow the story hook, line and sinker or not?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 8, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > This is yet another example of you trying to backpedal and just like fizz, try to pretend you didn't make a definitive claim.  Let's see what you said in post 165:
> ...



No he didn't retract.  All he did was say he might be mistaken.  But the point is being missed.  This is a fundamental piece of info about 9E and look how many are ignorant of that lone simple fact.  It was that same hubris and ignorance that said it was evidence the op is false.  I think a couple of OCTAs even hit the "thanks" button for that post.  Rotfl!


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

The TRANSMISSIONS From Flight 77 might be the thing that divecon had in mind.  Those are recorded elsewhere, not just on the "black box" voice recorder which does look like it had been totally destroyed in the crash and aftermath.

I have seen a set of transcriptions of the transmissions BUT the ones I saw included only air to ground and ground to air communications.  Other recordings, like whatever noise or voices may have been recorded in the background (in the cabin, for example) was not transcribed in the stuff I saw.

See, for example, http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc06.pdf


----------



## Fizz (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> No he didn't retract.  All he did was say he might be mistaken.  But the point is being missed.  This is a fundamental piece of info about 9E and look how many are ignorant of that lone simple fact.  It was that same hubris and ignorance that said it was evidence the op is false.  I think a couple of OCTAs even hit the "thanks" button for that post.  Rotfl!



how many "thanks" buttons does it take before i get a free happy meal?

he said he was mistaken. thats good enough for me. the original post IS false. not sure what your point is.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 8, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


you prove once again you suck at reading comprehension


----------



## Liability (Dec 8, 2009)

I can find nothing to support my hunch that any in-cockpit background noise got recorded during radio transmissions from Flt. 77 to the ground.  In fact, it looks, instead, like after the normal conversations, the transmissions from the aircraft just stopped with no prior indication from the cabin that anything had gone wrong.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Dec 8, 2009)

Regardless, the OP is wrong, it is based upon BS. the NTSB report plainly lists the "FLT DECK DOOR; PARAMETER ASSIGNMENT....EICAS L/R-A-1; as being "Parameters not working or unconfirmed".

There is no way anyone can make the claim that the door was never opened once they see the facts. 

Now I understand that EOTS and 911 will claim the NTSB lied, but we are used to that.

http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf

Nuff said, this thread is dead.


----------



## candycorn (Dec 8, 2009)

eots=


----------



## Trojan (Dec 8, 2009)

eots said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > pray tell eots..
> ...



Its much easier to fake FDR data than to fake DNA, but what the hell, why would this conspiracy do the easy thing right


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Liability said:


> The TRANSMISSIONS From Flight 77 might be the thing that divecon had in mind.  Those are recorded elsewhere, not just on the "black box" voice recorder which does look like it had been totally destroyed in the crash and aftermath.
> 
> I have seen a set of transcriptions of the transmissions BUT the ones I saw included only air to ground and ground to air communications.  Other recordings, like whatever noise or voices may have been recorded in the background (in the cabin, for example) was not transcribed in the stuff I saw.
> 
> See, for example, http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc06.pdf





Bwhahahhhrotfllmaohaahaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

Look at you guys falling all over yourselves!!!!!

He clearly said there was a recording of the cockpit being stormed.  Hahaha.....all this does is prove you don't give a fuck about accurate information and you will always try to twist info to defend the OCT.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Pop quiz!

If a dumbfuck like me is more informed about 9E as just proven that divecon was completely ignorant of the fact that flt 77 cvr had no info, what does that make divecon?  Lol....that's why you are a joke.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Regardless, the OP is wrong, it is based upon BS. the NTSB report plainly lists the "FLT DECK DOOR; PARAMETER ASSIGNMENT....EICAS L/R-A-1; as being "Parameters not working or unconfirmed".
> 
> There is no way anyone can make the claim that the door was never opened once they see the facts.
> 
> ...




This is another great example how OCTAs will ALWAYS assume info supports their view.  The NTBS report does not definitively state the flt deck door data was not working.  It says "not working OR unconfirmed."  That means it is 50/50 on it working but OCTAs
 desperately assume it could not have been working.  Why? Because if it was it throws a serious kink in their position.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




Don't embarrass yourself further.  You clear referenced everyone who does not buy the OCT and your claim you are a truth seeker is bullshit by both proclamation and action.  You claim the OCT is true so you seek to defend it which is why you gave went through THREE excuses to try and dismiss this OP and you have still not definitively proven the fdr was not monitoring the door.  Why did you give 3 excuses? Because the first two were assumptions you took from other message boards and you finally settled on the claim that the fdr was not working even though the NTBS report gives a 50/50 chance it was working.  If it was "unconfirmed" there is no fucking confirmation it wasn't working.

Another item that proves you are not a truth seeker is how often you have flat out avoided trying to explain why New York kept first responder testimonies under lock and key for four years. You won't go near that.

Want another example?  You dismiss the fact that less than two weeks after 9E the Bush admin pushed through a Bill that would give families millions of dollars in government welfare money on the condition they didn't sue the airlines.  Your excuse, like other OCTAs
 is the government did it to keep the airlines from going bankrupt.  That's bullshit.  Do you know why?  If bankruptcy prevention was the reason the Bill could have stated the families can sue the airlines to find out what happened but they would not and could not receive financial restitution from the airlines.  In short, it would have been easy to prevent bankruptcy while also not restricting investigations.  

Want another example?   Naw, your plate is full. When you've digested this info let us know.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Regardless, the OP is wrong, it is based upon BS. the NTSB report plainly lists the "FLT DECK DOOR; PARAMETER ASSIGNMENT....EICAS L/R-A-1; as being "Parameters not working or unconfirmed".
> ...



so tell us when the door sensor was installed on the 757-2 to be able to send the data to the FDR that was upgraded to what was standard starting with a 757-3

or better yet. just show the door was EVER opened.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > No he didn't retract.  All he did was say he might be mistaken.  But the point is being missed.  This is a fundamental piece of info about 9E and look how many are ignorant of that lone simple fact.  It was that same hubris and ignorance that said it was evidence the op is false.  I think a couple of OCTAs even hit the "thanks" button for that post.  Rotfl!
> ...




You still missed the point.  Other OCTAs fully believed completely false information......and worse.....from someone like divecon.  That proves what I've been saying all along......many OCTAs don't know much about that day so they argue from a preconceived conclusion backwards.  This means they automatically dismiss info that contradicts the OCT without verification just like they believe info that supports the OCT without verification.  Nobody has proven the op is true or false but you want to claim it is false by cherry picking from the NTBS report.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




I believe eots already posted the links regarding the updates required.  There is no question flt 77 had the ability to monitor the door's position as shown by the NTBS report.  It the fdr was not capable the report could not have stated it was "not working or unconfirmed."  

I still haven't seen any evidence that proves the op is true or false.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

well, i just downloaded the csv file for the FDR raw data. it isnt actually the raw data but i digress.

first let me start out by saying that the file is so large that excel can not open the complete file. it only opens the first 65,000 lines or so.

it does show the door closed for the aircraft used for flight 77. interestingly enough it also gives the lattitude and longitude of the flight at the time but no timestamp. by looking at the lattitude and longitude it seems that my data cuts out before flight 77 takes place (due to the limits of excel to display the file).

however, by checking the lattitude and longitude i can see that i have at least 6 flights worth of data and maybe as high as 12 or more flights. not once in any flight was the door ever recorded as open.

but it gets even better. at several times the FDR was recording the data while the plane was parked!!! for instance, the lattitude and longitude remained exactly the same for quite some time. put the lattitude and longitude into google maps and up pops chicago o'hare airport, for example. never does the FDR says the door was opened. not once.

the file is available for anyone to look at on the ntsb site i posted earlier. before arguing with me check the data for yourself please.

so in summary:
1. my computer couldnt open the entire file so i couldnt verify the claims that the data for the flight deck door never was recorded open on flight 77. i have no reason to think the data would show that it had opened.

2. i was able to open about 65,000 lines of the file and not once was the cockpit door ever recorded as open. this data covers several long distance flights. maybe as many as 12.

3. while the plane was sitting parked at the airport the FDR was recording and the door was NEVER recorded as open.

4. the NTSB report says the data is unavailable which is the only logical explanation of the door NEVER being recorded as open one single time in 12 flights including the times it was stopped on the ground.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

for anyone still interested in the looking at what other people have said about the data in the FDR there is an excellent analysis here http://911files.info/ntsb/Final Analysis of NTSB Fight Data Recorder Freedom of Inform.pdf

unfortunately he does not address the flt deck door issue. (perhaps he was smart enough to know it wasnt being recorded).


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> well, i just downloaded the csv file for the FDR raw data. it isnt actually the raw data but i digress.
> 
> first let me start out by saying that the file is so large that excel can not open the complete file. it only opens the first 65,000 lines or so.
> 
> ...



A while ago I posted the programmer's website with the fdr data.


----------



## Liability (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > The TRANSMISSIONS From Flight 77 might be the thing that divecon had in mind.  Those are recorded elsewhere, not just on the "black box" voice recorder which does look like it had been totally destroyed in the crash and aftermath.
> ...



You appear to have missed my subsequent post, troll-boi.  No surprise there.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Regardless, the OP is wrong, it is based upon BS. the NTSB report plainly lists the "FLT DECK DOOR; PARAMETER ASSIGNMENT....EICAS L/R-A-1; as being "Parameters not working or unconfirmed".
> ...




How stupid can you get. to OP says that research shows that the door was never opened, The NTSB reports clearly shows that there is no way for this report to determine that. You are doing nothing but arguing for the side of conspiracy that cannot be proven. Again this thread from the OP is dead. Grow up and admit the truth.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


wow, typical for a conspiracy nutter
you ignore the facts and copntinue to hit on a MINOR problem, and i already admitted that my recollection was in error and it was most likely flight 93 that i heard the cockpit voice recorder
but will you let that go, NOPE like the fucking asshole mnoronic idiot you are, you will still be bitching about that for the next 50 or so pages
grow a fucking brain


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



How much longer will you keep crying? Would you like more kleenex or do you anticipate the need for snorkel equipment?  Then you lie and call me a conspiracy nutter? Lol...hey...whateva you have to do! Lol


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



The NTBS report does not say it is impossible to know.  That is your fabrication.  You obviously didn't read much about the op because it wasn't simply one piece of data that was used.  I've also been very truthful as I've repeatedly stated I don't know if the op claim is true or not.  Yet you have the audacity to tell others to grow up?  Lol....isn't about time for your pussy to get sore so much you put me on (pretend) ignore again?


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


first off, i'm NOT crying, i'm laughing at your stupid ass
and i never lied you fucking asswipe


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




the WHAT???


LOL
you dumb fuck


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Wow....your crying just goes on! Your avatar makes perfect sense!


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Are you that stupid? I do not ever pretend. You were on ignore for several weeks I believe the last post I made to you was along the lines of "goodbye Child". And from that instant you went on ignore, Fact is it was so unimportant that i forget why. But I'm sure you will refresh my memory. BTW you have been the only one in this forum to be so graced.


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...





> (PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.
> 
> On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 0854 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]



Now What other piece of data does the OP state other than the NTSB? Mentions that twice I told you exactly what the report this is based upon says. The report proves that the OP is a lie. If you are too stupid to understand that it's ok, we understand. I simply see no other logical way this can be read.


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




If something is "cross checked" what does that mean?


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




Lol.  You're calling someone else a child?  How adult can you be when you have so little control over your emotions you have to put someone on ignore just to keep your temper from crashing your computer? Lol......


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


and once again you prove you are a fucking moron


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
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> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Read it again, slowly. Crosschecked against what? Data from the NTSB........So if you crosscheck your spelling with your own spelling is it crosschecked? The OP has nothing. Notice all the conspiracy theorists have disappeared from this thread?


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




Now you are getting funny. I ignore stupidity. And I have been known to ignore racists. But mostly stupidity.


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


he is clearly an idiot who needs to take a "reading for comprehension" class


Reading Comprehension - Free Worksheets


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



your best post ever Dive turd!!!! - it has a link that actually backs you up for once.


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> CurveLight said:
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> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




Take note, it is insecure people like you and divecon who post by popularity.  I don't give a shit who is or isn't posting.  Right now your position is based on a document linked by fizz who first claimed th fdr on 77 could not monitor the fdd.  Obviously you failed to learn it is not wise to simply trust a fellow OCTA. Do you know what was cross checked by the pilots or are you simply diving into another mistake?


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## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Take note, it is insecure people like you and divecon who post by popularity.  I don't give a shit who is or isn't posting.  Right now your position is based on a document linked by fizz who first claimed th fdr on 77 could not monitor the fdd.  Obviously you failed to learn it is not wise to simply trust a fellow OCTA. Do you know what was cross checked by the pilots or are you simply diving into another mistake?



DONT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. 

i didnt say the FDR could not do it. i said it had no port to do it. how fucking moronic are you? didnt we just go over and over and over this? 

go read a book on software, multiplexing, data compression and timeslots. then look at the data. then come back and tell me what port the fucking flt deck door was using.

you are being a jackass.


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > 9/11 Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible
> ...




Does anyone see this as anything other than Fizz claiming the FDR that was manufactured in 1997 did not have a port therefore flt 77 would always show the door closed?  That's why eots responded by showing the fdr had already been updated.  If you knew it was capable of monitoring the door why even bring up the claim it had no port so always showed the door closed?

You clearly fucked up by pointing to the year it was manufactured as evidence.  If it was simply a software issue the manufactured date wouldve been irrelevant.  Really, stop embarrassing yourself by trying to keep denying what you clearly claimed.


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

Jay Canuck said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
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use the link fucktard, you need it as much as the one i posted it for


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Take note, it is insecure people like you and divecon who post by popularity.  I don't give a shit who is or isn't posting.  Right now your position is based on a document linked by fizz who first claimed th fdr on 77 could not monitor the fdd.  Obviously you failed to learn it is not wise to simply trust a fellow OCTA. Do you know what was cross checked by the pilots or are you simply diving into another mistake?
> ...


hes a fucking idiot


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
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then explain why the FDR showed the door never to have been opened in 42 fucking hours, moron


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
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> > Fizz said:
> ...



Do you even know what type of fdr was on board and the loop time or are you fizzing out again?


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## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> then explain why the FDR showed the door never to have been opened in 42 fucking hours, moron



honestly, i havent been able to figure out where the person that said 42 hours came up with that number. i think it is at least close to being correct though. i know i repeated what someone else had said someplace else so i want to make it clear that i am not exactly sure where that number came from. there is no time stamp on the door data but there is latitude and longitude.

it is quite possible that the person matched the latitude and longitude with the known flight times of that airframe or something like that. 

so the bottom line is that i have not been able to verify that it is indeed 42 hours but someone has made the claim. i have verified that there are many flights worth of data, mostly between chicago and los angeles, and many times the plane was parked for a considerable amount of time and not once was the flt deck door recorded as open.

i also verified that ALL the recorded data latitude and longitude are off by about a hundred yards.(all in the same direction so it is consistent) i dont have any explanation for this but am looking into it.


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## Jay Canuck (Dec 9, 2009)

Diveturd, why is it you guys always thank and rep each other for your stupid fucking posts that involve nothing more than insult and opinion?


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > then explain why the FDR showed the door never to have been opened in 42 fucking hours, moron
> ...




This is yet another perfect example!  You guys are giving a gold mine here!  Divecon is so sure you were correct he didn't verify the info and demanded me to explain something that simply....does not exist. Lol

If you had done any of your own fucking work you guys wouldn't constantly be in backpedal mode.  Solid state fdr's are on a loop from 17-25 hrs.  Guess what kind of fdr was on 77?  So basically the claim of 42 hours was pure bullshit.  I'm a fucking moron....what would you guys do if someone half intelligent was challenging your claims?


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## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

the following is NOT my research but the data does match unless you think two airplanes can occupy the same physical parking spot at the same exact time. if you do believe that please put on your tinfoil hat and join the "WTC had a concrete core" discussion.

the airframe used for flight 77 had these previous flights on the FDR. 







please do your own research and know what you are talking about before you say something silly like "the aircraft number isnt the same". thanks.


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> the following is NOT my research but the data does match unless you think two airplanes can occupy the same physical parking spot at the same exact time. if you do believe that please put on your tinfoil hat and join the "WTC had a concrete core" discussion.
> 
> the airframe used for flight 77 had these previous flights on the FDR.
> 
> ...




Who said the aircraft number isn't the same and in what post? Thanks.


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## CurveLight (Dec 9, 2009)

Here's a little info on the person who provided the above graph:

Screw Loose Change: French Debunker Noted


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...


you are still nothing but a fucking idiot
and that has been proven
so fuck off asswipe


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Here's a little info on the person who provided the above graph:
> 
> Screw Loose Change: French Debunker Noted


LOL i liked this one better from your link

Screw Loose Change: Sole Remaining Employed Troofer Loses His Job



btw, if you paid more attention to the rest of the info on that site than alex jones and his ilk, you wouldnt be so fucking stupid


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## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Who said the aircraft number isn't the same and in what post? Thanks.



oh jesus.....

where do you see me say that someone already said it?


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Who said the aircraft number isn't the same and in what post? Thanks.
> ...


see why i said he needs a reading comprehension class?


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## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Does anyone see this as anything other than Fizz claiming the FDR that was manufactured in 1997 did not have a port therefore flt 77 would always show the door closed?  That's why eots responded by showing the fdr had already been updated.  If you knew it was capable of monitoring the door why even bring up the claim it had no port so always showed the door closed?
> 
> You clearly fucked up by pointing to the year it was manufactured as evidence.  If it was simply a software issue the manufactured date wouldve been irrelevant.  Really, stop embarrassing yourself by trying to keep denying what you clearly claimed.



you are embarrassing yourself. try plugging the FDR into a model T ford and see if the drivers door was open. you think that will work? you think the model T has a timeslot available for the multiplexer to access?

do you think the FDR made in 1997 might have a few extra capabilities that are not able to be used on a plane that was made in 1991?

you are a complete ass.


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## Fizz (Dec 9, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> If you had done any of your own fucking work you guys wouldn't constantly be in backpedal mode.  Solid state fdr's are on a loop from 17-25 hrs.  Guess what kind of fdr was on 77?  So basically the claim of 42 hours was pure bullshit.



do you wish to stand by this statement or would you like to backpedal now before i make a complete ass out of you?


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## DiveCon (Dec 9, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > If you had done any of your own fucking work you guys wouldn't constantly be in backpedal mode.  Solid state fdr's are on a loop from 17-25 hrs.  Guess what kind of fdr was on 77?  So basically the claim of 42 hours was pure bullshit.
> ...


its too late, he has already made an ass out of himself


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## SFC Ollie (Dec 9, 2009)

Look guys, it has been proven beyond any doubt that the OP is pure BS. Curvelight either knows this is true or is more of a moron than even I think he/she/it is. So I am taking this thread off my list. There is nothing left here to accomplish. Besides he may be a decoy to keep us off other threads.

Another conspiracy....LOL


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## manu1959 (Dec 9, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Look guys, it has been proven beyond any doubt that the OP is pure BS. Curvelight either knows this is true or is more of a moron than even I think he/she/it is. So I am taking this thread off my list. There is nothing left here to accomplish. Besides he may be a decoy to keep us off other threads.
> 
> Another conspiracy....LOL



you ar right this could be a false flag thread.....pity i can't rep you....


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




Hahahahahahaha.......so when you are proven wrong about another claim you still do nothing but call people names.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Who said the aircraft number isn't the same and in what post? Thanks.
> ...




My misunderstanding and I apologize.  While backtracking your graphic I saw on ATS some had tried to claim different plane numbers so it appears on top of your habit for not giving credit where it is due you will even to appear intelligent by plagiarizing posts from other boards. Lol


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone see this as anything other than Fizz claiming the FDR that was manufactured in 1997 did not have a port therefore flt 77 would always show the door closed?  That's why eots responded by showing the fdr had already been updated.  If you knew it was capable of monitoring the door why even bring up the claim it had no port so always showed the door closed?
> ...




Back to your manufacturing excuse.  Eots already posted the links by the faa that showed the updates were made prior to 9E.  I've only had to say that about five times and you've ignored it every single time.  But it has to make you feel good to know you are imitating divecon.  Quite a role model.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > If you had done any of your own fucking work you guys wouldn't constantly be in backpedal mode.  Solid state fdr's are on a loop from 17-25 hrs.  Guess what kind of fdr was on 77?  So basically the claim of 42 hours was pure bullshit.
> ...



"However, the FDR recording from American Airlines flight 77 was

derived from a solid-state recorder, which uses updated technology and does not necessitate the

creation of binary files."
National Transportation Safety Board


"The FDRs record parameters for 25 hours, after which they "recycle" and overwrite old data with new."
Avionics Magazine :: The Promising Future for FDRs and CVRs


"Specifications

Flight Data Recorder

Time recorded

*

25 hour continuous

Number of parameters

18 - 1000+

Impact tolerance

3400Gs / 6.5 ms

Fire resistance

1100 degC / 30 min

Water pressure resistance

submerged 20,000 ft

Underwater locator beacon

37.5 KHz; battery has shelf life of 6 years or more, with 30-day operation capability upon activation"
NTSB - CVR & FDR


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




No matter how many times you guys fuck up you always pretend you never made a mistake.   Someone asked why you constantly give each other reps and thanks for posts that do nothing but make childish remarks.  The reason is simple.  You falsely believe a poster's credibility and history of accurate info is shown explicitly by those two items so you go around trying to cover your asses by abusing those features thus allowing your own bullshit to get supported by......your own bullshit.


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 10, 2009)

I keep asking.... If the door was never opened who flew the plane into the Building?

If you are going to claim the plane never flew into the building then you have a LOT more to explain.

Like why did Radar have it descend and disappear from tracking? Where did the plane and passengers go? How did the black boxes and DNA evidence get to the Pentagon?

If the plane flew off how come NO ONE saw that big ass aircraft flying over the city below radar and off into the sunset? And WHO flew it off that way to begin with?

Why do we have over 100 witnesses that saw the plane headed for the pentagon? BUT not one to say it flew off? Why would the commercial pilots agree to fly the plane in such a manner? And what happened to them?

Why do we have a member of the US Government Cabinet stating his wife, whom was on the plane, called him and told him what was happening? Where did his wife go? Where are all the other passengers? The Crew? The plane?

And better yet, since Terrel and others insist the plane never hit the Pentagon, where did the black boxes come from? The very fact the black boxes were in the wreckage of the building destroys any attempt to claim no plane hit the building.

BUT back to the door? If it was never opened WHAT the hell happened to the aircraft, the crew and the passengers? 

Still waiting for actual proof any such data actually exists as well.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

SFC Ollie said:


> Look guys, it has been proven beyond any doubt that the OP is pure BS. Curvelight either knows this is true or is more of a moron than even I think he/she/it is. So I am taking this thread off my list. There is nothing left here to accomplish. Besides he may be a decoy to keep us off other threads.
> 
> Another conspiracy....LOL




If the great and magnificent GI Joe says it has been proven to be false then it must be true! Lol.  What was that I just said about how you use your own bullshit to back each other regardless of the info?


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Look guys, it has been proven beyond any doubt that the OP is pure BS. Curvelight either knows this is true or is more of a moron than even I think he/she/it is. So I am taking this thread off my list. There is nothing left here to accomplish. Besides he may be a decoy to keep us off other threads.
> ...



You have spent this entire thread ignoring my questions. Why is that?


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I keep asking.... If the door was never opened who flew the plane into the Building?
> 
> If you are going to claim the plane never flew into the building then you have a LOT more to explain.
> 
> ...




This is a great example.  One of the items mentioned is the alleged phone calls between Barbara and Ted Olson.  That is the "cabinet member" being referenced.  Yet again proof that most OCTAs are ignorant of basic facts about that day.


"The most serious official contradiction of Ted Olson&#8217;s story came in 2006 at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker. The evidence presented to this trial by the FBI included a report on phone calls from all four 9/11 flights.*In its report on American Flight 77, the FBI report attributed only one call to Barbara Olson and it was an &#8220;unconnected call,&#8221; which (of course) lasted &#8220;0 seconds.&#8221;9 According to the FBI, therefore, Ted Olson did not receive a single call from his wife using either a cell phone or an onboard phone."
Ted Olson's Report of Phone Calls from Barbara Olson on 9/11: Three Official Denials

Yet again another OCTA demands an explanation for something that does not exist.  This is what......the fourth time in the last few pages of this thread alone?  You people should really do some homework if you are going to support the Bush Admin.


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > I keep asking.... If the door was never opened who flew the plane into the Building?
> ...



Sure thing, you want us to believe he lied? Did all the other people that got phone calls from other flights lie too? I mean aren't you one of those that INSISTS Flight 93 never crashed in Pennsylvania? Yet we have the phone calls to prove it.

And I note with glee you AVOID answering any of my questions. WHERE THE FUCK did the planes go? WHERE THE HELL did the crew and Passengers go? HOW IN FUCK did the black boxes get to the crash sites in time to be found by search crews if the planes NEVER crashed?

YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT is that the plane never hit the Pentagon. THEN WHERE IS IT? HOW DID IT GET OUT OF THE CITY? The entire premise of this thread is that the door was never opened to the cockpit, which means the commercial pilots had to have done what ever happened to the aircraft. WHY WOULD THEY?

Our Government can not keep secret when the President takes a shit yet you want us to believe that the US Government planned and executed 9/11 and after 8 YEARS not one person has come forward to cooberate the claim.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...




I didn't realize I ignored your questions.  I believe I did just respond to one of them and showed it was complete bullshit.  You want me to address them one by one?  Why?


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## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



See, that's why I maintain that my theory (that space aliens blasted the whole, abducted the entire plane full of people to use for breeding a super race to enslave us, while evil midgets trained by Elvis cleaned up all traces of it ) is a valid as most of the contentions raised in here. 
There is no 'evidence'. This thread was raised around the fact that there was no evidence to show that the door to the cockpit in the plane had opened, therefore it must be a government cover-up. The fact is the plane was older than the flight recorder and simply didn't have the input for the door sensor.
Claiming this is part of a conspiracy holds no more credence than my midget theory.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




I read the very first part of the post and stopped.  Why? Because even when fucking fbi evidence is produced showing the Olson calls did not exist you still refuse to acknowledge it.  That evidence isn't good enough because now we have to explain why he lied and even if we had him on digital video live from his kitchen saying why he lied you would demand his blood for a dna match!  What the hell?

The other kicker was attributing comments about flt 93 to me that I never made.  I've never said fucking word about 93 but you are at least the 4th OCTA to claim that. Why? Because you don't pay attention which is exactly why you swallow the OCT and will defend it no matter how ridiculous you look in the process.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




I got bored and read the rest of the post.  It was what I suspected....more bullshit.  I never claimed 77 didn't hit the pentagon and I never claimed 9E was a False Flag Op from top down.  So you demand that I support claims I have not made?  Holy shit you guys are on a record breaker here.  

Also typical is you want people to prove things that are not necessary to show the OCT is not 100% accurate.  If 77 didn't hit the pentagon nobody needs to show where that flight went to show the OCT is not fully true.  How can you not grasp this simple logic?   Let's put this logic in a courtroom scenario:

You are the prosecutor and you are claiming the murder defendant is guilty because there is a murder victim.  The defense shows your prosecution case is lacking evidence so your response is to say "so what?"  You would then turn to the jury and say "If the defendant cannot conclusively prove who did the murder then the defendant is guilty."  Do you see how absurd that is?  You cannot prove the OCT is true by pointing to negatives as positive evidence.

Basically this is the pattern of OCTAs
 and how often they engage in the fallacy of the false dilemma.


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## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



You have that reversed. We have eyewitness and even films of planes flying into buildings AND nutjobs that confessed to their part in it, as well as a big nutjob that took credit for planning the whole thing. That is evidence.
The 'troofer' movement keeps pointing to little things that they see as not making sense and then turns it around to say it must be a government conspiracy. That IS the fallacy of false dilemma. You got it backwards......


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## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


you havent proven ANYONE wrong but yourself fucktard


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## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


see, this is the thing, he wants 100% accuracy
so if he finds one tiny minute thing that looks green instead of blue, he wants a new investigation to correct that
then he finds another spot where they didnt dot the i or cross the t andf its a conspiracy


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## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Which is why I maintain my theory (space aliens blasted the hole, abducted the passengers to breed a super human race to enslave us, while evil midgets trained by Elvis cleaned up all traces of it) is just as valid as what was posted in this thread.
If your going to imagine a conspiracy, then imagine a big one with some fun details, it doesn't cost any more.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...




Your dishonesty prevails once again.


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## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > slackjawed said:
> ...



Please point out the dishonesty.


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## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



He claims I find "one tiny minute" thing and use that to claim the OCT isn't true.  Want a couple of quick examples?  Sure thing:

1. Gunny
 cites the phone calls between the Olsons as evidence the OCT is true.  I provide evidence from the fbi the phone calls did not happen and suddenly what was once a piece of evidence showing the OCT is true is dismissed as tiny and minute.

2. Fizz said he didn't hear explosions regarding the wtc towers and cites that as evidence no demo packs were used.  I provide testimonies from hundreds of first responders stating they witnessed demo-like explosions 40 stories below the plane impact levels and suddenly the witnessing of those explosions becomes meaningless.

3. Divecon claimed there was an audio recording of flt 77's cockpit being stormed by hijackers and that was evidence this op was wrong.  I provide evidence showing there is no such recording and suddenly it doesn't mean a fucking thing.


4. Ollie cited eyewitness accounts of flight 77 as proof it hit the pentagon.  Something that was moving 500mph!  But the eyewitness accounts regarding explosions at ground zero do not count as evidence demo packs were used.

5. Many have claimed the CR is a "full and complete" report of 9/11.  Bit if a problem.  

 (A) NIST didn't submit its full report on wtc 7 until FOUR YEARS AFTER the CR was released.  (Remind us, was wtc 7 related to the events of 9E in any way?)  


 (B) We also know Mineta's testimony was stricken from the CR.  


 (C) We know some firefighters walked out of their testimonies in front of the CR because they were forbidden from testifying to what they actually witnessed.  

 (D) We also know New York withheld hundreds of eyewitness accounts for a few years.  Know when those were released?  About a year after the CR published its "full report" about that day.


I could list more but what's the point?  Those are solid examples of how OCTAs
 claim an item important enough to be counted as evidence to support the OCT but as soon as you show that same item to be false it suddenly and magically turns into something "tiny and minute."


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



It isn't a OCT or Truther choice. There are more than two positions on this issue, just like most other issues.
Something about the official story isn't adding up, but there could be other explanations for that besides a government conspiracy and cover-up.(like space aliens and midgets)


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > slackjawed said:
> ...




Quite a stellar example of a nonsequitur.  You asked me to display the dishonesty and I demonstrated how OCTAs will cite evidence the OCT is true until it is shown their claims are false then they say that same evidence doesn't matter.  I've also been pointing out the fallacy of the false dilemma and I sure as hell didn't make that fallacy here.  Now do you have an actual response to your fulfilled request or not?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Slackjawed just provided another example.  He dismissed the olson calls as "probably" tiny and minute.  Have you forgotten that was the main piece of evidence publicly stated that proved flight 77 was hijacked?  Do you need to go back and look at press coverage from 9/11-9/24 to see that was the most often cited piece of evidence?  I agree it doesn't make or break the case but that wasn't my argument either.


----------



## manu1959 (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> slackjawed said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



1. the fact the fbi could not confirm that the calls didin't happen only means the fbi has not record...doen's mean they did our didn't....unless you want to hang onto the eyewitness argument...see number 4 below...

2. columns exlopding due to sudden loading of building collapse

3. doen't prove the door wasn't opened and the plane hijacked

4. seeing a plane and hearing explosions does not mean the explosions were caused by demo packs which no one saw anyone place during the months it woyuld take to prep the building...

5. you want a government report to be complete....fucking hell man...


----------



## Fizz (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> 2. Fizz said he didn't hear explosions regarding the wtc towers and cites that as evidence no demo packs were used.  I provide testimonies from hundreds of first responders stating they witnessed demo-like explosions 40 stories below the plane impact levels and suddenly the witnessing of those explosions becomes meaningless.



you have hundreds of people saying they witnessed demo-like explosions at 40 stories below plane impact? where is this?

are you saying that you do hear explosions in that video? please go to that video and post a response (since it is off topic here).


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Slackjawed just provided another example.  He dismissed the olson calls as "probably" tiny and minute.  Have you forgotten that was the main piece of evidence publicly stated that proved flight 77 was hijacked?  Do you need to go back and look at press coverage from 9/11-9/24 to see that was the most often cited piece of evidence?  I agree it doesn't make or break the case but that wasn't my argument either.



Thank you for the polite and on topic discussion curve, that means a lot to me
I bet we both agree that we need a new, complete, independent, non-partisan, impartial investigation. I think we need to see a report that clearly lays out what exactly is hard evidence, what is based on confessions, and what is conjecture.
Personally, I would like to see a special investigation, one that the government has no authority over. Yet somehow I think the government needs to pay for it.
That is why I don't see it happening to the point where everyone accepts it.
There's a real dilemma. What if, just for the sake of argument, we both suspend belief for a moment and say that somehow the government would be able to pay for an investigation and not influence it. (just say, I know, I can't really either)
Even if it was entirely impartial and accurate, there would be a significant number who could not accept it. They could not accept if because the government produced it. Now, based upon our government's record over the past several years, I wouldn't say that those that could not accept it were being unreasonable.
Even if we could get all those fairy tale conditions, would it still be settled?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 10, 2009)

i'm waiting for him to claim it was never hijacked and landed safely in los angeles and all the passengers and crew went about their merry little lives.....


wouldnt the proof it was hijacked be that it crashed into the pentagon?


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

You know there are still people that insist Billy the Kid got away and lived to old age too. 
But ya know what? I can't tell you for sure they are wrong.
I still insist, for the official USMB record:
Space aliens blew a big hole in the pentagon to distract attention away from abducting a planeload of humans in order to breed a super-human race to enslave earth. They tried this once before, unfortunately they abducted a midget, and sadly bred a race of super midgets.(see my thread, prepare to meet your midget masters)
As part of the cover up, they had the evil midgets (trained by Elvis, previously abducted but impotent) clean up all traces of the blast and anyone who saw it, producing a few bodies to add authentication.
The worst is yet to come, I wonder just how long it takes to breed this super-human race........


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

manu1959 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > slackjawed said:
> ...




And another one missed the point of the post.  I highlighted examples of items that get used by OCTAs
 to say the OCT is true then when those same items are shown to be false it doesn't matter.  That was the point of the post.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Slackjawed just provided another example.  He dismissed the olson calls as "probably" tiny and minute.  Have you forgotten that was the main piece of evidence publicly stated that proved flight 77 was hijacked?  Do you need to go back and look at press coverage from 9/11-9/24 to see that was the most often cited piece of evidence?  I agree it doesn't make or break the case but that wasn't my argument either.
> ...




For the majority yes, I think it would be settled.  OCTAs
 have done one hell of a job at defending the OCT merely by demonizing anyone who does not accept it.  I say I don't know what happened and by that lone claim I've been accused of at least 5 false claims I've never made.  Why is it such a crime to be honest and say I don't know what happened?


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

I am with you, I know you don't know. Otherwise I know you'd be talking about evil midgets.


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## Toro (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> I got bored and read the rest of the post.  It was what I suspected....more bullshit.  I never claimed 77 didn't hit the pentagon and I never claimed 9E was a False Flag Op from top down.  So you demand that I support claims I have not made?  Holy shit you guys are on a record breaker here.
> 
> Also typical is you want people to prove things that are not necessary to show the OCT is not 100% accurate.  If 77 didn't hit the pentagon nobody needs to show where that flight went to show the OCT is not fully true.  How can you not grasp this simple logic?   Let's put this logic in a courtroom scenario:
> 
> ...



First, this is not a court of law where one must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  There is no standard that requires reasonable doubt.  What we do is weigh the body of evidence.

Thus far, it appears that your argument is based upon a small discrepancy about whether or not a door opened, and the specifications of a flight data recorder, which posters here have raised questions about whether they are even valid.  Now weigh that against

- hundreds of people saw a plane crash into the Pentagon, with no one coming forward to say they saw anything different
- dozens of people were at the crash scene cleaning up the debris with no one thus far saying it was anything other than a plane
- wreckage at the site was consistent with AA77
- DNA found at the site
- Mementos of passengers at the site
- al-Qaeda admitted they were behind it
- the five hijackers had links to al-Qaeda
- inconsistencies in the plot, i.e. why slam two planes into the WTC and not a plane into the Pentagon?
- no plausible answers to what happened to the passengers and the plane if a plane did not hit the Pentagon

If you took what you have to an appellate court and asked for a retrial based on what you have argued, it is unlikely you would get one (unless maybe you were in the wacky 9th district!)  You have not made your case on why a new investigation should be reopened.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > 2. Fizz said he didn't hear explosions regarding the wtc towers and cites that as evidence no demo packs were used.  I provide testimonies from hundreds of first responders stating they witnessed demo-like explosions 40 stories below the plane impact levels and suddenly the witnessing of those explosions becomes meaningless.
> ...




Provided that link a long time ago.  It was included with what you have been continuously ignoring.....explaining why New York withheld the testimonies.  No worries, you've achieved divecon status so I don't give a shit anymore.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Toro said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > I got bored and read the rest of the post.  It was what I suspected....more bullshit.  I never claimed 77 didn't hit the pentagon and I never claimed 9E was a False Flag Op from top down.  So you demand that I support claims I have not made?  Holy shit you guys are on a record breaker here.
> ...



Holy shit.  I never said we have to abide by standards of a court.  This is why discussing the issue gets frustrating.  Let me spell it out again:

Nobody can say the OCT is true by virtue of not being able to point to exactly what happened to flight 77 if it did not hit the Pentagon.  Do you understand I was using a courtroom example merely to show what a false dilemma looks like?

OCTAs
 ALWAYS get frazzled when items of evidence they cite are shown to be false.  It happens every single time.  Gunny, ollie, you, and others go into a tirade of jumping all over the place in a frenzied laundry list that skips over everything.  You can't slow down because most OCTAs
 are not that informed of the facts, as clearly demonstrated in the last few pages, so your emotions take over and you end up screaming anyone who doesn't accept the OCT are nutbags.  But none of you have the balls to say that to the families, survivors, and first responders who do not accept the OCT.


----------



## Toro (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Holy shit.  I never said we have to abide by standards of a court.  This is why discussing the issue gets frustrating.  Let me spell it out again:
> 
> Nobody can say the OCT is true by virtue of not being able to point to exactly what happened to flight 77 if it did not hit the Pentagon.  Do you understand I was using a courtroom example merely to show what a false dilemma looks like?
> 
> ...



Me frazzled and emotional?  Nope.  Bored with guys like you is more like it.

It appears that your argument is based on discrepancies about whether or not a door was opened and the workings of flight data recorder, both of which have been called into question by other posters here who claim you are incorrect.  However, when you weigh that against the totality of the evidence, it is virtually inconsequential.

Oh, BTW, do you have the "balls" to say to the families, survivors and first responders that their loved ones are dead possibly because of some bizarre conspiracy theory?  

And you shouldn't be calling out others on "facts" when you so clearly are unable to answer very basic and obvious questions.


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 10, 2009)

Toro said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Holy shit.  I never said we have to abide by standards of a court.  This is why discussing the issue gets frustrating.  Let me spell it out again:
> ...



Yeah, if he knew anything at all about actual facts he would be talking about space aliens and evil midgets. Jeeesh the nerve of some people.
Personally the only thing I am comfortable telling any victims families et al is that I'm sorry you suffered.
After all, I ain't no evil midget so my hands are clean.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Toro said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Holy shit.  I never said we have to abide by standards of a court.  This is why discussing the issue gets frustrating.  Let me spell it out again:
> ...




Hahahaha.....guys like me?  Like gunny and the rest of the unemployed psychics you claim to know my entire pov based on a few posts.  I've ALWAYS said I don't know if this op is true or false.  Apparently, OCTAs
 like you love the life of no accountability.  As shown several times in this thread it doesn't matter how many times you fuck up you pretend you didn't and move on.

Yes, I have absolutely stated to families and first responders I don't know what happened and it is possible their loved ones were killed for reasons beyond what we have been told.  You'd be amazed how mature and patriotic they are.  They didn't call me a nutter or fucktard or accuse me of hating America.  They actually respect other points of view even if they agree or disagree. How novel.


----------



## Gamolon (Dec 10, 2009)

Do you realize that the latest FDR data decode shows the jet north of the light poles yet SOUTH of the Citgo station? This was admitted to me by one of the people working on the FDR data with Balsamo in another thread.

The FDR data is either one of two things. It is either fake or it is real.

If it is real, then it would have had to have come from a real flight. A flight that supposedly flew over the Pentagon. So the conspirators knew ahead of time that the jet would fly over the Pentagon. Knowing this important piece of information, they then went and planted downed light poles in the path of jet that they KNEW would not match the flyover jet. Knowing this, they STILL decided to plant the wrong FDR information at the scene knowing that it wouldn't match the staged debris and planted shills.

If it is fake, then we have two options.

1. The fake FDR data was created BEFORE the attack. So they had flight path predetermined by the faked FDR data and yet went out and planted light poles, shills, and other evidence that went against the faked FDR data.
2. The fake FDR data was created AFTER the attack. This means that the staged debris was set up before the attack actually occurred and somebody went ahead and created the wrong FDR data anyways. FDR data that DIDN'T match the staged flight path debris.

Seriously?

So which scenario is it?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 10, 2009)

Gamolon said:


> Do you realize that the latest FDR data decode shows the jet north of the light poles yet SOUTH of the Citgo station? This was admitted to me by one of the people working on the FDR data with Balsamo in another thread.
> 
> The FDR data is either one of two things. It is either fake or it is real.
> 
> ...



when i was looking at the door data i also looked at some of the latitude-longitude information. i could not open the entire file due to limitations in excel so i was not able to look at the final flight into the pentagon. i did check some of the info and input the coordinates into google maps, especially when the aircraft was parked at an airport. (since i was looking for a door to be open). the info consistently shows the aircraft a few hundred yards from where it was actually parked (at the gate). if i remember it was consistently to the west by about 100 or 200 yards. for instance, when parked at the gate immediately before taking off it was shown to be parked on an access road a few hundred yards to the west.

i dont have any explanation as yet for this but i doubt it is a complicated issue. it may be something as simple as an inertial navigation system was sending the data to the FDR and it wasnt adjusted properly to match up with GPS data.

anyway, my point is that if you have the track of the plane not hitting the poles (maybe 200yards too far to the west?) then you would need to somehow sync that data with a verifiable location that the airplane was located, such as an airport gate. the answer may be much more simple than it appears at first glance.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> [
> 
> 3. Divecon claimed there was an audio recording of flt 77's cockpit being stormed by hijackers and that was evidence this op was wrong.  I provide evidence showing there is no such recording and suddenly it doesn't mean a fucking thing.


and here is proof you are a fucking liar and an asshole
i said i wasnt sure and when it was pointed out i said i was mistaken
so fuck off you disgusting troofer fucking PIG


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

Fizz said:


> Gamolon said:
> 
> 
> > Do you realize that the latest FDR data decode shows the jet north of the light poles yet SOUTH of the Citgo station? This was admitted to me by one of the people working on the FDR data with Balsamo in another thread.
> ...


uh, civilian GPS can be off by that much, easily


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...




Why are you so pathetic you have to edit a post when you quote it instead of respecting context?  Why did I point out you made that embarrassingly false claim in POST 165?  I was using it as one example (of many) to show OCTAs jump with glee to cite something as evidence to prove the OCT is true but suddenly decide that SAME PIECE OF EVIDENCE IS FUCKING MEANINGLESS WHEN IT DOESN'T SUPPORT THE OCT!!!

I believe two fellow OCTAs
 have their "thanks" on there.  Lol......I see that as almost your Alma Mater.  You could write a song about how people will say THANK YOU FOR GIVING FALSE INFORMATION IF YOU ARE DEFENDING THE OCT!!!!

But hey, you make up for all of that by calling me a pig. Oink! Rotfl!


----------



## Toro (Dec 10, 2009)

Gamolon said:


> Do you realize that the latest FDR data decode shows the jet north of the light poles yet SOUTH of the Citgo station? This was admitted to me by one of the people working on the FDR data with Balsamo in another thread.
> 
> The FDR data is either one of two things. It is either fake or it is real.
> 
> ...



It's fake, just like the body parts and mementos from the passengers in the Pentagon.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

slackjawed said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...




You should have stuck to your alien midget posts because now you are revealing things...well...that make you look like divecon's twin brother.  It is completely false to claim everyone who does not accept the OCT automatically assumes some sort of false flag op.  Why would you make such a blatantly dishonest claim?  Don't bother answering cause I don't give a fuck.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > If you had done any of your own fucking work you guys wouldn't constantly be in backpedal mode.  Solid state fdr's are on a loop from 17-25 hrs.  Guess what kind of fdr was on 77?  So basically the claim of 42 hours was pure bullshit.
> ...




In between your busy day of curing another form of cancer, setting up the financial infrastructure for 2 more Fortune 100 companies, and saving a bus of elderly from drowning, you must have forgotten to back up your post here.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

Gamolon said:


> Do you realize that the latest FDR data decode shows the jet north of the light poles yet SOUTH of the Citgo station? This was admitted to me by one of the people working on the FDR data with Balsamo in another thread.
> 
> The FDR data is either one of two things. It is either fake or it is real.
> 
> ...




It is somewhat entertaining to watch the depleted in imagination squeeze nicole ritchie thin strawmen out their dead asses only to celebrate their glorious victories of kicking the shit out of pee-wee herman on a water and vitamin diet strong self induced what the fuck were you thinking stupid ass arguments.  But mostly it's boring.  Can't you TRY to be entertaining?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


yoiu are fucking pathetic you fucking lying troofer moron


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

all troofers are fucking pathetic pieces of shit


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




Translation:

"Damn it I am so sick of people who don't accept the OCT to constantly show how ignorant I am on the issue!"


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


correct translation:
i'm sick of fucking moronic idiots that think anyone other than al qaeda opperatives did it


because the FACTS show that to be the truth you fucking IDIOT


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 10, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




You still crying?  If you're so sick of getting pwned then stop posting. Naw, you're way too arrogant. You'll prove it by continuing to post and whine and hit the neg rep button because face it.....that's all you got.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


LOL
the day you PWN anyone will be your first
you fucking asswipe moronic idiot


and calling you that is anything BUT crying you idiot
i'm laughing at how fucking stupid you can make yourself look
as are almost everyone else reading this thread
grow a brain fucktard


----------



## eots (Dec 10, 2009)

the essence of divecons argument...

fucking moronic idiots.. al qaeda opperatives 
FACTS fucking IDIOT..fucking asswipe moronic idiot idiot
laughing  fucking stupid everyone fucktard


----------



## Fizz (Dec 10, 2009)

eots said:


> the essence of divecons argument...
> 
> fucking moronic idiots.. al qaeda opperatives
> FACTS fucking IDIOT..fucking asswipe moronic idiot idiot
> laughing  fucking stupid everyone fucktard



speaking of facts, do you still think the pentagon hijacking was impossible?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > the essence of divecons argument...
> ...


he's another fucking idiot


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 10, 2009)

eots said:


> the essence of divecons argument...
> 
> fucking moronic idiots.. al qaeda opperatives
> FACTS fucking IDIOT..fucking asswipe moronic idiot idiot
> laughing  fucking stupid everyone fucktard


you dont get it because you are too fucking stupid
i have presented MOUNTAINS of evidence in the past to you, onl;y you reject it out of your blind fucking faith to alex jones
get your head out of his fucking ass for a change and breath some fresh air


----------



## kyzr (Dec 10, 2009)

Your OP link is NOT to NTSB or any reliable source that backs up the claim that the cockpit door was never opened.  I'm not even sure that the doors had interlocks??  Part of the problem as I understood it, was that the cockpit doors were not even lockable prior to 9/11.  You need to prove what the OP claims, or its bullshit.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 10, 2009)

kyzr said:


> Your OP link is NOT to NTSB or any reliable source that backs up the claim that the cockpit door was never opened.  I'm not even sure that the doors had interlocks??  Part of the problem as I understood it, was that the cockpit doors were not even lockable prior to 9/11.  You need to prove what the OP claims, or its bullshit.



the door wasnt monitored. 
you can see that here....
http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf
which is the same agency that gave the guy the info he used to conclude the door was never opened.


----------



## eots (Dec 10, 2009)

This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...

According to http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...ly/s01txt.html

Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32. 

The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80.

Flight 77 = N644AA 2460 

Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991

FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry

N644AA = AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991

So N644AA has been updated before August 18, 2001


----------



## Fizz (Dec 10, 2009)

eots said:


> This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...



yeah, we know that already. the FDR was replaced in 1997.

the door was not monitored. its right there on the NTSB website. please provide proof otherwise. i already explained in detail that the FDR had NEVER recorded the door opening EVER and this includes the last dozen or so flights and the ground time sitting between flights.

the door was not monitored. look it up yourself. http://www.ntsb.gov/info/AAL77_fdr.pdf


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...
> ...




That link isn't working for me.  Can you quote all the relevant portions?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




Wasn't another claim you made was to demand it get explained why the fdr said the door was closed for 42 hours?  Yes, that was another genius claim that proved you don't even know what kind of fdr was on flt 77.  How the fuck can you possibly state you know anything while constantly showing your ignorance runs deeper than the atlantic?  Got anymore genius claims?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

Fizz said:


> kyzr said:
> 
> 
> > Your OP link is NOT to NTSB or any reliable source that backs up the claim that the cockpit door was never opened.  I'm not even sure that the doors had interlocks??  Part of the problem as I understood it, was that the cockpit doors were not even lockable prior to 9/11.  You need to prove what the OP claims, or its bullshit.
> ...




Who is the "guy" you are referring to?  Got a name and link?

I'm still waiting for you to make an ass of me for pointing out the fdr on 77 was not on a loop that covered anywhere near a 42 hour time span.  It was you who posted the 42 hour claim correct?  It was divecon who then demanded I explain that time period based on believing your claim with no work of his own.  We've seen that how many times in this thread?  There are at least 4 OCTAs
 in this thread alone guilty of passing on bad info and claiming it as fact.  You guys should consider a closed door informational conference or something.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

kyzr said:


> Your OP link is NOT to NTSB or any reliable source that backs up the claim that the cockpit door was never opened.  I'm not even sure that the doors had interlocks??  Part of the problem as I understood it, was that the cockpit doors were not even lockable prior to 9/11.  You need to prove what the OP claims, or its bullshit.



Lol...did you check out the credentials of the Pilots or did you automatically assume it wasn't worth your time because the link wasn't from the msm?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


see, you are too fucking STUPID to understand anything as are all fucking troofer morons
that's why i long ago stopped giving you ANYTHING
you lack the cognitive abilities to process the info


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



I believe that is the original claim you made.  Do you have a link proving this?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


its been posted by fizz several times, moron
you don't have the capabilities to digest the info you demand of others


----------



## candycorn (Dec 11, 2009)

EOTS=


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




Wowzza you are special.  After you demanded I explained that "42 hour" claim Fizz posted it wasn't his research and was not sure if it was accurate so no, he never posted anything supporting it.  After I pointed out 77's fdr was not capable of doing 42 hours he offered to let me retract with the threat of "making an ass" of myself if I didn't.  Well, I've asked him a few times to prove his claim and he has ignored it.  

I can't say for sure, but it may have something to do with the links I posted from the NTBS showing the fdr on 77 was on a 25 hour loop and not 42 hours.  I really appreciate people like you worshiping the OCT because you help make it clear many OCTAs don't give a fuck about anyone or anything except defending the OCT.  Good day sir.


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## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


and he has made an ass out of you, you just stay delusional and think you've somehow "PWNed" someone
but you've pwned yourself. fucktard


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## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



How did he make an ass of me?  You truly just say whatever the hell you want without ever backing up anything you say.  Even when you fuck up you pretend you didn't.  Why are you even on here? You sure as hell don't care about facts or information.  Does it make you feel better to call people names all the time? You hardly ever have anything useful or insightful to say.


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## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


yes, it makes me feel good to call fucktards like you, fucktards


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## CurveLight (Dec 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



At least you admit your purpose here is limited by your abilities and I can respect that.


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## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


you are the one with the limitations
fucktard


several years ago i TRIED using logic and reason with troofer fucktards, but like with you, it was a waste of my time and abilities
so i learned not to waste my time with research for assholes like your ilk that will just reject it because it doesnt fit your preconceived ideas that it was an inside job
thus you and your ilk get exactly what they have asked for and deserve
ridicule and scorn

dson't like it?
then grow a brain and get over the fact that you need serious professional help


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## Liability (Dec 11, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



There was no such "admission [sic]" inherent in anything divecon had said.

Thus you, benttight, are revealed to be either dishonest or woefully unable to comprehend simple English sentences.


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## eots (Dec 11, 2009)

divemoroncon needs professional help clearly he has a personality disorder someone needs to do something before he hurts someone or himself ..he shows all the signs


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## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

eots said:


> divemoroncon needs professional help clearly he has a personality disorder someone needs to do something before he hurts someone or himself ..he shows all the signs


nice mirror attempt
you suck at it


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## Fizz (Dec 11, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Wowzza you are special.  After you demanded I explained that "42 hour" claim Fizz posted it wasn't his research and was not sure if it was accurate so no, he never posted anything supporting it.  After I pointed out 77's fdr was not capable of doing 42 hours he offered to let me retract with the threat of "making an ass" of myself if I didn't.  Well, I've asked him a few times to prove his claim and he has ignored it.
> 
> I can't say for sure, but it may have something to do with the links I posted from the NTBS showing the fdr on 77 was on a 25 hour loop and not 42 hours.  I really appreciate people like you worshiping the OCT because you help make it clear many OCTAs don't give a fuck about anyone or anything except defending the OCT.  Good day sir.



you do understand the word "minimum", right. it records a minimum of 25 hours. it records until the the data is full and then the oldest data is discarded in favor of the new. you do understand all this FDR stuff, right? or are you talking out of your ass again? you do realize that the amount of data in hours it can hold would depend upon how much data it receives, right? there is no loop because it is digital not tape. it is not a constant therefore they give minimums. 

i already showed you where you can find the actual FDR data. since it doesnt have time stamps you need to open the file and plot where it was on the earth for all the data written. you can work backwards from the pentagon crash all the way to the beginning of the data. then you can match that up with known flights and actual departure times from airports. then you can calculate how many hours it was between the earliest data and the time it hit the pentagon. i dont know where the guy got the 42 hours from because when i did all the above i mentioned i came up with a much much higher number. like 90 something hours.

but feel free to do all the math and research to prove me wrong.

while you are at it..... take notice that the DOOR WAS NEVER RECORDED OPENED THAT ENTIRE TIME.

are you still sticking by the claims that the hijacking was impossible?


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## Toro (Dec 11, 2009)

So many conspiracy theories, so little time.

You guys should watch the CBC 9/11 Truthers show, particularly segments 3 & 4.  It's great!  It makes them look silly.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...-airs-9-11-doubts-on-national-televesion.html


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## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Wowzza you are special.  After you demanded I explained that "42 hour" claim Fizz posted it wasn't his research and was not sure if it was accurate so no, he never posted anything supporting it.  After I pointed out 77's fdr was not capable of doing 42 hours he offered to let me retract with the threat of "making an ass" of myself if I didn't.  Well, I've asked him a few times to prove his claim and he has ignored it.
> ...


these morons are pathological


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## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

Toro said:


> So many conspiracy theories, so little time.
> 
> You guys should watch the CBC 9/11 Truthers show, particularly segments 3 & 4.  It's great!  It makes them look silly.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/consp...-airs-9-11-doubts-on-national-televesion.html


without even watching it i can tell the response you will get

the CBC is part of the conspiracy


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## eots (Dec 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > divemoroncon needs professional help clearly he has a personality disorder someone needs to do something before he hurts someone or himself ..he shows all the signs
> ...



No seriously_ fucktard_...I am concerned


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## DiveCon (Dec 11, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


wow, how childish
LOL
reduced to copying others


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## Fizz (Dec 11, 2009)

eots said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...


i see that you would rather have childish spats than answer my question.....

it was your claim that the hijacking was IMPOSSIBLE.

do you still wish to claim it was impossible or do you want to admit you were wrong?


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## eots (Dec 11, 2009)

I am looking at the information and developing an opinion still at this point..I did not title the article posted it as I found it interesting..and worth examining


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## eots (Dec 11, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



I think you are under a lot of stress and not a happy person...I am concerned


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 11, 2009)

So finally put your point out there Eots. You believe the Government not only blew up 2 buildings but secretly murdered 2 plane loads of people and slipped in their DNA evidence and bodies to the fake crash sites.


So not only do you believe the Government wired 3 buildings secretly but that it hijacked 4 air craft murdered the crew and passengers, fired a missile into the Pentagon and seeded the DNA evidence in the wreckage.

How many people did it take to pull off all these events? And how have they managed to keep anyone from talking about it all these years?


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## eots (Dec 11, 2009)

where is bin laden why has no one talked after all these years ?...how could all those  hundreds searching the rubble  of wtc find bone fragments and fingernails of terrorist and terrorist passports but no black boxes ???


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## Fizz (Dec 11, 2009)

eots said:


> where is bin laden why has no one talked after all these years ?...how could all those  hundreds searching the rubble  of wtc find bone fragments and fingernails of terrorist and terrorist passports but no black boxes ???



he is in my back yard buried under the spot my dog pees on every day.

are you serious about the black box thing? you look at the WTC collapse and can honestly say you expect the black boxes to survive intact?


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 11, 2009)

eots said:


> where is bin laden why has no one talked after all these years ?...how could all those  hundreds searching the rubble  of wtc find bone fragments and fingernails of terrorist and terrorist passports but no black boxes ???



Answer the questions.


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## Trojan (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> where is bin laden *why has no one talked after all these years ?.*..how could all those  hundreds searching the rubble  of wtc find bone fragments and fingernails of terrorist and terrorist passports but no black boxes ???



Why have no conspirators given death bed confessions regarding their role in the conspiracy?


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## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> where is bin laden why has no one talked after all these years ?



bin laden has about a dozen people that know where he is. even then some people do talk but we dont get the info fast enough.

a dozen is nothing compared to the thousands of people you require to pull off any complex wtc scenario like you are talking about.


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## eots (Dec 12, 2009)

Trojan said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > where is bin laden *why has no one talked after all these years ?.*..how could all those  hundreds searching the rubble  of wtc find bone fragments and fingernails of terrorist and terrorist passports but no black boxes ???
> ...



exactly some one would of given bin laden up already


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## eots (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > where is bin laden why has no one talked after all these years ?
> ...



oh its not a thousand or 500...or ? your precise calculations say thousands required now...interesting and what chance meeting with a terrorist have you had to get this  number of _the bin laden 12..._lol a bar in the delta quaqdrent.?..oh please tell


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## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> oh its not a thousand or 500...or ? your precise calculations say thousands required now...interesting and what chance meeting with a terrorist have you had to get this  number of _the bin laden 12..._lol a bar in the delta quaqdrent.?..oh please tell



huh? 

nevermind. not only do i not understand your babble. i dont really care....

...tell us again how the cockpit door that wasnt even being monitored was never opened and its impossible for the plane to have been hijacked. thats always good for a laugh.


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## eots (Dec 12, 2009)

oh you understand...


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Trojan said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > where is bin laden *why has no one talked after all these years ?.*..how could all those  hundreds searching the rubble  of wtc find bone fragments and fingernails of terrorist and terrorist passports but no black boxes ???
> ...




Pitiful premise.  You assume if someone surprising doesn't confess on their death bed that is evidence the OCT is true.  And your camp refers to trutherz as saying dumb shit?


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## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Pitiful premise.  You assume if someone surprising doesn't confess on their death bed that is evidence the OCT is true.  And your camp refers to trutherz as saying dumb shit?


i refer to them as dumb shits mostly because they are. your post telling someone what they assume is a perfect example.


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Wowzza you are special.  After you demanded I explained that "42 hour" claim Fizz posted it wasn't his research and was not sure if it was accurate so no, he never posted anything supporting it.  After I pointed out 77's fdr was not capable of doing 42 hours he offered to let me retract with the threat of "making an ass" of myself if I didn't.  Well, I've asked him a few times to prove his claim and he has ignored it.
> ...



I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED THE HIJACKING WAS IMPOSSIBLE SO YOUR OUTRIGHT LYING ABOUT MY POSITION IS CHILDISHNESS. 

Did you get that?  Read it again.  Then read it again.


You also don't know what the fuck you're talking about with the fdr loop time.  You should really not copy other OCTA's research.  Have you learned nothing yet?  The fdr records over time, not simply the amount of data.  Ie. Sensors will send a signal every 4 seconds for the flight deck door to record its position and note if it is opened or closed.  Once 25 hours have been spent the data is looped to always retain the most recent 25 hours.  I've already posted two links from the NTSB confirming this as well as one from an avionics publication.  But i'll post some more because I am enjoying kicking the living shit out of your ignorant arguments.

"The FDR generally has enough storage space to record the incoming data for 25 hours continuously, after this time the new incoming data is recorded over the oldest data so that the FDR always holds the last 25 hours of data."
Flight Recorders

Do you see what that says?  After 25 hours new data is recorded over older data.....that is the fucking loop.

Here's another source:

"The FDR records on an endless loop principle and contains data from the last 24 hours of the flight."
Aircraft Accident Investigations: World of Forensic Science

Gee, doesn't that say something about the recording being on a loop?  

That makes five links in total and here's another:

"Recording duration :&#8226; Power supply: 115 V / 400 Hz or 28 V DC
&#8226; Consumption: 10 VA
- 25 hours (256 words/sec"
http://www.sagemavionics.com/ProdFiles/Brochures/FlightDataManagement/SSFDR.pdf

There's a total of SIX links I've given you showing the recording loop is 25 hours.  What have you produced besides hubris, hypocrisy, and denial?


Then you keep claiming the door was always shut.  The problem with that einstein is it came from the same source where you said it recorded the last 42 hours.  I've blown that fucking claim to bits.

Will you do your usual routine? You know...put your tail between your legs and hide for a few days then come back to post like I never provided the above info?  You even threatened to make an ass out of me if I stuck to my claim about the fdr being on a 25 hour loop.  Looks like you fucked up.  Again.

Of course we also know what the outcome of this will be.  You will admit you were wrong (eventually) then follow it up with "it doesn't matter."  You always do that.  So why is it you vehemently stick to a clearly false claim to try and defend it only to say "it doesn't matter" when it's shown your claim is bullshit?


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Pitiful premise.  You assume if someone surprising doesn't confess on their death bed that is evidence the OCT is true.  And your camp refers to trutherz as saying dumb shit?
> ...




What?  The post claimed the lack of a deathbed confession is evidence the OCT is true.  I didn't tell anyone what they assume.  That's what the fucking post claimed!


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > oh its not a thousand or 500...or ? your precise calculations say thousands required now...interesting and what chance meeting with a terrorist have you had to get this  number of _the bin laden 12..._lol a bar in the delta quaqdrent.?..oh please tell
> ...



Where is the evidence the door wasn't being monitored? Provide the exact quote with the link in response.  Thanks.


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> eots said:
> 
> 
> > where is bin laden why has no one talked after all these years ?
> ...




How did you arrive at the conclusion it would "take thousands?"  What I mean is, did you actually formulate a method and let the math provide the number or did you just pull that figure out of your ass?


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > eots said:
> ...



For starters there were hundreds of investigators from all levels of Government involved. ALL of them would have had to be in on the cover up. From how many different States?

Wiring 3 buildings secretly would required dozens of people. A secret missile launch would require a hell of a lot MILITARY personnel. Hijacking 2 planes and ferreting off the crew and passengers of two more planes to murder them would require hundreds of people.

All the air traffic controllers would have to be in on it. Someone would have to hired to play the wives of the men that never really got called. Phone companies would have to be in on it. The Airlines would have to be in on it. The airports that the planes originated would have to be in on it. 136 eye witnesses that SAW the plane in DC would have to be in on it. All the fire and emergency rescue people in Pennsylvania and Washington DC would have to be in on it.

Getting the idea yet?


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## Toro (Dec 12, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



No.


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




It looks like you keep making up numbers based on a large amount of assumptions.  This is proven by you being unable to explain how your supposed false flag op would have operated.  For those numbers to be accurate you should be able to easily recite how it would have happened but you are not able to do that which means those numbers are no less full of shit than the OP that claims it has indisputable proof explosives were used.  Furthermore, you have a specific agenda of trying to make it look like a false flag op would be impossible.  That is why you make baseless assumptions and throw out random numbers.  

The problem with that is it shows you defend the OCT not mainly on merits of evidence,  but by strange assumptions and a lack of imagination.

I'm fully confident if one, two or even ten people confessed to helping pull it off you and most other OCTAs would simply claim they are nutjobs looking for attention or just wackos.  How do I say that?  Saw it with iraq and wmd. No matter how many whistle blowers or evidence came out the loyal apologists always found a shitty excuse.

(general fyi: that doesn't mean all who accept the OCT also supported the iraq invasion.  The comparison is simply highlighting the hysteria of Nationalism)


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## Terral (Dec 12, 2009)

Hi Curve:



CurveLight said:


> I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED THE HIJACKING WAS IMPOSSIBLE SO YOUR OUTRIGHT LYING ABOUT MY POSITION IS CHILDISHNESS.
> 
> Did you get that?  Read it again.  Then read it again.



For your information, the AA77 hijacking WAS IMPOSSIBLE, because that flight (like AA11) *WAS CANCELED on 9/11* (Post #106)!!!! Period. 

Canceled flights CANNOT BE HIJACKED. The people who believe AA77 was hijacked are:

1. Loyal Bushie/Obama DUPES (like you).
2. DoD Cover Story Handlers/Operatives/Assets (like Gam, Fizz, Ollie, etc..)

GL,

Terral


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## Trojan (Dec 12, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Curve:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh good God  

So all the passanger families are liars, they never had a loved one scheduled to take the flight>


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## Toro (Dec 12, 2009)

Trojan said:


> Terral said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Curve:
> ...



Terral will show you a link that says the flight did not take off, or at least it says time 0:00:00.  That is proof positive to Terral that no flights took off.  How could it be if the time of departure says 0:00:00?  Of course, idiosyncracies, mistakes, or process must ALWAYS be ruled out.  So even though we all saw a plane slam into the WTC, according to Terrallogic, it never happened because of a couple of numbers on the flight log.


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## Terral (Dec 12, 2009)

Hi Trojan and Toro:



Trojan said:


> Oh good God
> 
> So all the passanger families are liars, they never had a loved one scheduled to take the flight>



No. The families were DUPED like you ...



Toro said:


> Terral will show you a link that says the flight did not take off, or at least it says time 0:00:00.  That is proof positive to Terral that no flights took off.



Go through the Departure Data for yourself! 

1. Start Here >> Bureau Of Transportation Statistics 
2. Click on >> Airline On-Time Statistics
3. Click on >> Detailed Statistics Departures
4. Select >> *All Statistics *
5. Select >> *Washington, DC - Washington Dulles International (IAD)*
6. Select >> *American Airlines (AA)*
7. Select >> *September, 11, 2001*

This Is What You See

The 'Tail Number' is "UNKNOWN," because the jetliner never entered the runway like the other canceled flights! All of the data is zeroed out, because no literal jetliner used the runway for airport personnel to enter any times! 



Toro said:


> How could it be if the time of departure says 0:00:00?  Of course, idiosyncracies, mistakes, or process must ALWAYS be ruled out.



No. There is no mistake! The DoD/FBI murdered innocent Americans who 'could' blow the cover on this 9/11 Inside-job Attack 'and' they gave the victims seats on canceled AA Flights (11 and 77)! Why? That is easy: DUPES will believe anything ... 



Toro said:


> So even though we all saw a plane slam into the WTC, according to Terrallogic, it never happened because of a couple of numbers on the flight log.



Jetliners were used from the *Global Guardian Wargames* (story) that ran as a cover for the 9/11 Inside-job Attacks! That is where the *retrofitted A-3 Skywarrior* (story) came from that attacked the Pentagon at *9:31:39 AM* (my Topic + 9:31 Topic) 'and' why that aircraft came from the *'north'* (map = from WTC theater) and NOT from the west ...

GL,

Terral


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Curve:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I followed the link and what I found checks out with what you claimed:
http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepaturesData.xml

What your dumbass obviously doesn't know is I've always been a loud opponent of dubya and obama.  I've also always said I don't know what happened on 9E so when you make idiotic assumptions and blatantly false claims don't be surprised if people see that as a handicap and hesitant to trust what you say.  And you really need to drop the "disinfo agent" crap.  All you do is make yourself look sooper paranoid.

So how do we know where AA issued the tail number from?  Obviously it's out there.  This is interesting info so I don't know why people would dismiss such a clear fact with the wave of a hand.


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Toro said:


> Trojan said:
> 
> 
> > Terral said:
> ...



Dismissing the info with no further regard is pretty silly.


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## RetiredGySgt (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Making up numbers? You are beyond ignorant. HUNDREDS of investigators were involved in the 4 hijackings the wreck sites, the attempts to piece together who did what and why. Yet NOT a single investigators has EVER said they doubted what they found. None have said they were told to lie and none have said they were in on a great cover up.

These investigators are from all levels of Government and private industry. From the military and the intel agencies. NOT ONE supports or found a single shred of evidence to support a false flag operation.

4 Planes with HUNDREDS of people on them were involved. From 4 locations. We have eye witnesses that saw the Pentagon plane low and heading for the Pentagon. Yet the KEY to the false flag claim is that no plane ever hit the Pentagon. No one can even INVENT a story to cover what happened to the air craft, the crew or passengers if it did not hit the Pentagon. That is just ignored. In order for the air craft to have not hit the building we must believe that all the investigators from the airlines, the military and the local authorities lied about the aircraft existing. We must believe that those investigators that claimed to have found bodies and artifacts from passengers and crew in the Pentagon all lied  OR that the super secret Government op manged to kidnap all the people from a busy airport murder them char their bodies and otherwise mangle them and then secretly get most of an airplane and all the personal stuff including dna and body parts into the missile hole in less then an hour from the kidnappings.

We are to believe that some super secret Government black op secretly either wired 3 public buildings with THOUSANDS of people using said buildings a day or sprayed explosives in the spots. And again we have to assume that all the investigators either lied about the 2 aircraft existing and that some great holographic image was used to fake the FILM of the airliner hitting the second building.

OR perhaps the Government got some agents to agree to commit suicide by hijacking the planes and then making sure they flew them into the secretly prepared spots on the towers. And all the phone calls were faked.

I can go on and on as to just how IDIOTIC the whole false flag claim is but it is pointless dumb asses retards like you just ignore the overwhelming facts and focus on some minor detail to fabricate from whole cloth a vast secret operation. THEN have the balls to claim it would only take a few people to pull off.

THE OVERWHELMING reality is that only a paranoid delusional could honestly believe there was some vast secret operations by the US Government on 9/11.


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## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > Trojan said:
> ...


believing those numbers mean anything other than an anomaly is fucking delusional


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

RetiredGySgt said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



That was nothing but a whiny rant.  Plus, I've never claimed it was a false flag op.....for the 28th time I will say again I don't know what happened.  All I did in response to your post is point out you make a wild claim about big numbers as suspected, and you pulled it out of your ass because you could not even give a brief description of how your pretend false flag op wouldve occurred.   You're the OCTA version of Terral.  How does that feel? 

If you aren't capable of simple dialogue then why post in theses threads?  Makes no sense


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## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> .....for the 28th time I will say again I don't know what happened.



well let me take this opportunity to get you up to date. 

a bunch of muslim terrorists hijacked four airplanes. two crashed into the world trade center towers. they fell down and killed a lot of innocent people. one plane crashed into the pentagon and killed a lot of people. another crashed into a field in pennsyvania and killed a lot of people.

there you have it. now you know. now you dont need to claim you dont know what happened because you have been told.


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Toro said:
> ...




Two flights out of four are listed as cancelled.  Fifty percent of the hijacked planes being listed as cancelled is just an anomaly?  I don't know if it means anything or not but the first step would be to see how often the records show flights that were cancelled with no tail numbers actually flew.  Do you know the stats on that? Of course not because you only care about one thing: calling people names.


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## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



its your evidence.... why dont YOU do the research? lazy ass twoofers..... i bet you are a deadbeat dad living off us taxpayers too. just lick christophera.

what time were they cancelled? did you check to see what time zone that time is in? do you think the flight should have been listed as "arrived" instead of cancelled? i'm not sure that is exactly appropriate.


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## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > .....for the 28th time I will say again I don't know what happened.
> ...




You?  Being told by you means it's true?  Aren't you the one who made a few shitty claims in this thread alone?  Did you ever respond to the SIX links I posted about the fdr?  Probably not.  Your skirt hangs a little lower than divecon's but you're both fucked on a regular basis.

Just because people like you swallow the government's jizz doesn't mean those who don't are wackos.  Got anymore genius posts?


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## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


so, you believe the government to be that competent to not make errors on flight reports?


^^^^^^^

here i am TRYING once again out of MILLIONS of times, trying to use logic and reason with someone that has shown they LACK that capability


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## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



All 4 planes crashed.  The damnable Troofers would insist that it MUST be a "conspiracy" involving folks OTHER THAN the terrorists who we KNOW did it *because* the flights got listed as "cancelled" instead of "arrived, NY,"  "arrived, NY,"  "arrived, DC" and "arrived, PA."

The Troofers are actually a rather disgusting lot.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



i went over the FDR and explained it all to you many times. you obviously dont understand it. thats not my fault, dude. the flight door wasnt recorded EVER.

you claimed you didnt know what happened. i told you. now you cant claim you dont know anymore.


----------



## Terral (Dec 12, 2009)

Hi Curve:



CurveLight said:


> And you really need to drop the "disinfo agent" crap.  All you do is make yourself look sooper paranoid.



In other words, Gam cool and Mr. Fizz cool and Ollie cool are just *idiots* confused:) who blindly push *Official Cover Story LIES* ...  

Okay, if you say so (but I know better) ...

GL,

Terral


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...



Having worked in aviation in the Army I'm a little bit familiar with the process.  I don't give a shit about the "arrival time."  I specifically pointed out the TAIL NUMBERS.  Why is it every time you get faced with info you can't address your ad homs kick up?

Unlike your camp I do my own research. Divecon claimed it was simply an "anomaly" but he gave no reason.  That's when I pointed out he does not know the stats on that log archive.  Talk about not doing research.....you fucking go on parasitical runs on other boards then post the info here as if you did the homework.  Your "flight door was closed for 42" hours is a great example.  

I do my own research as proven by the six links you ignored.  Are you going to project and whine some more or do you have something of substance to offer?

Oh yeah, for the....what....8th time.....can you explain why New York kept ground zero testimonies hidden for over 4 years and released them only after being forced to?  How long will you keep ignoring that?


----------



## slackjawed (Dec 12, 2009)

Construction of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

snip;
"Aircraft impact

Experts now agree that the airplanes did not hit either building. Space aliens blasted the buildings with advanced weopons, while abducting all the passengers. The passengers were transffered to their planet to be used in an effort to breed a super-human race to take over the earth. This was attempted by these aliens once before, sadly they abducted a midget and the genetically engineer super race came out to small to be taken seriously. The evil midgets wer trained by Elvis Presley on the alien planet. Elvis was previously abducted but was found to be impotent and could not breed. additionally his DNA was damaged by drug use in his early life. These elvis trained evil midgets cleaned up all traces of the aliens and their super secret weopons. During the cleanup, several earthlings were killed, creating bodies and lending credence to the official government cover up. Experts now agree that all other stories are now considered to be created and spread to hide the truth that space aliens are working to take over the earth."


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Having worked in aviation in the Army I'm a little bit familiar with the process.  I don't give a shit about the "arrival time."  I specifically pointed out the TAIL NUMBERS.  Why is it every time you get faced with info you can't address your ad homs kick up?
> 
> Unlike your camp I do my own research. Divecon claimed it was simply an "anomaly" but he gave no reason.  That's when I pointed out he does not know the stats on that log archive.  Talk about not doing research.....you fucking go on parasitical runs on other boards then post the info here as if you did the homework.  Your "flight door was closed for 42" hours is a great example.
> 
> ...



yeah, the 42 hours was wrong. i admitted already i dont know where he came up with that numbert. it was really in the 90 hours range but feel free to do your own research about it like i did. so in reality it was closed for 42 hours. it was closed for more than 42 hours. it was closed for about twice that long.

its a bit like arguing about the color shirt lee harvey oswald was wearing. in the end it really has no effect on anything. just like the "door was never opened" argument when it wasnt even monitored. you are busy arguing whether it was 42 hours or not. who fucking cares..... it wasnt monitored.

honestly, i dont know what 6 links you are referring to. are these videos? a large percentage of the time i post from my phone and cant see the videos.

also, what is your evidence about tail numbers? (you are getting a bit off topic for the thread, by the way)


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Having worked in aviation in the Army I'm a little bit familiar with the process.  I don't give a shit about the "arrival time."  I specifically pointed out the TAIL NUMBERS.  Why is it every time you get faced with info you can't address your ad homs kick up?
> ...


LHO's shirt was PINK i tell ya


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Curve:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You don't get it.....you're just as rabid as many OCTAs
 on here.  What the hell do you ever accomplish by screaming "DISINFO AGENTS!"  It's no less counterproductive than OCTAs screaming "Twoofer WHACKJOBS!"


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Wowzza you are special.  After you demanded I explained that "42 hour" claim Fizz posted it wasn't his research and was not sure if it was accurate so no, he never posted anything supporting it.  After I pointed out 77's fdr was not capable of doing 42 hours he offered to let me retract with the threat of "making an ass" of myself if I didn't.  Well, I've asked him a few times to prove his claim and he has ignored it.
> ...



I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED THE HIJACKING WAS IMPOSSIBLE SO YOUR OUTRIGHT LYING ABOUT MY POSITION IS CHILDISHNESS. 

Did you get that?  Read it again.  Then read it again.


You also don't know what the fuck you're talking about with the fdr loop time.  You should really not copy other OCTA's research.  Have you learned nothing yet?  The fdr records over time, not simply the amount of data.  Ie. Sensors will send a signal every 4 seconds for the flight deck door to record its position and note if it is opened or closed.  Once 25 hours have been spent the data is looped to always retain the most recent 25 hours.  I've already posted two links from the NTSB confirming this as well as one from an avionics publication.  But i'll post some more because I am enjoying kicking the living shit out of your ignorant arguments.

"The FDR generally has enough storage space to record the incoming data for 25 hours continuously, after this time the new incoming data is recorded over the oldest data so that the FDR always holds the last 25 hours of data."
Flight Recorders

Do you see what that says?  After 25 hours new data is recorded over older data.....that is the fucking loop.

Here's another source:

"The FDR records on an endless loop principle and contains data from the last 24 hours of the flight."
Aircraft Accident Investigations: World of Forensic Science

Gee, doesn't that say something about the recording being on a loop?  

That makes five links in total and here's another:

"Recording duration :&#8226; Power supply: 115 V / 400 Hz or 28 V DC
&#8226; Consumption: 10 VA
- 25 hours (256 words/sec"
http://www.sagemavionics.com/ProdFiles/Brochures/FlightDataManagement/SSFDR.pdf

There's a total of SIX links I've given you showing the recording loop is 25 hours.  What have you produced besides hubris, hypocrisy, and denial?


Then you keep claiming the door was always shut.  The problem with that einstein is it came from the same source where you said it recorded the last 42 hours.  I've blown that fucking claim to bits.

Will you do your usual routine? You know...put your tail between your legs and hide for a few days then come back to post like I never provided the above info?  You even threatened to make an ass out of me if I stuck to my claim about the fdr being on a 25 hour loop.  Looks like you fucked up.  Again.

Of course we also know what the outcome of this will be.  You will admit you were wrong (eventually) then follow it up with "it doesn't matter."  You always do that.  So why is it you vehemently stick to a clearly false claim to try and defend it only to say "it doesn't matter" when it's shown your claim is bullshit?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


i never said you did. but eots did, jackass. the questions was to him.



CurveLight said:


> Did you get that?  Read it again.  Then read it again.


 maybe you should. notice the difference colors? isnt that pretty.




CurveLight said:


> You also don't know what the fuck you're talking about with the fdr loop time.  You should really not copy other OCTA's research.  Have you learned nothing yet?  The fdr records over time, not simply the amount of data.


wrong. a digital unit will record until it is full. then it will discard old data in favor of the new. there is no physical "loop" as in older units. 





CurveLight said:


> Ie. Sensors will send a signal every 4 seconds for the flight deck door to record its position and note if it is opened or closed.  Once 25 hours have been spent the data is looped to always retain the most recent 25 hours.


 thats not what your link below says at all and it isnt what happens in reality. you really do have no idea what you are talking about.  





CurveLight said:


> I've already posted two links from the NTSB confirming this as well as one from an avionics publication.  But i'll post some more because I am enjoying kicking the living shit out of your ignorant arguments.
> 
> "The FDR generally has enough storage space to record the incoming data for 25 hours continuously, after this time the new incoming data is recorded over the oldest data so that the FDR always holds the last 25 hours of data."
> Flight Recorders
> ...


 reading comprehension problem? "new incoming data is recorded over the oldest data so that the FDR holds the last 25 hours of data." it says it records over the oldest data. it doesnt just erase shit when it gets to 25 hours old. it stores as much as it can until its full and then dumps the oldest data. 25 hours is the minimum.
"Current FDRs must retain the most recent 25 hours of flight data." Flight Data Recorders
logically speaking, why would the FDR get rid of data that it can keep? sorry. i said logic again. i know you dont like that word.



CurveLight said:


> Here's another source:
> 
> "The FDR records on an endless loop principle and contains data from the last 24 hours of the flight."
> Aircraft Accident Investigations: World of Forensic Science


so which is it? 24 or 25? your two links contradict each other (at least according to your theories of how the FDR works)
the truth is they are both right because the FDR records AT LEAST that much data. so if there is 42 hours of data on the recorder then the last 25 hours is on there. understand that? (probably not)



CurveLight said:


> Gee, doesn't that say something about the recording being on a loop?


no. it says loop principle. duh!!



CurveLight said:


> That makes five links in total and here's another:
> 
> "Recording duration :&#8226; Power supply: 115 V / 400 Hz or 28 V DC
> &#8226; Consumption: 10 VA
> ...


i produced THE ACTUAL FLIGHT DATA!!! you are fucking jackass. the actual flight data has more than 25 hours on it!! how fucking stupid can you possibly be?




CurveLight said:


> Then you keep claiming the door was always shut.  The problem with that einstein is it came from the same source where you said it recorded the last 42 hours.  I've blown that fucking claim to bits.


 the problem is that it comes FROM THE ACTUAL FLIGHT DATA!! this is the same actual flight data that the idiot claiming the door wasnt opened during flight 77. well, no fucking shit. it wasnt monitored and was never shown to be opened EVER.



CurveLight said:


> Will you do your usual routine? You know...put your tail between your legs and hide for a few days then come back to post like I never provided the above info?  You even threatened to make an ass out of me if I stuck to my claim about the fdr being on a 25 hour loop.  Looks like you fucked up.  Again.


 i have answered all you posts before. you jsut dont liek the answers so you claim i never answered them.



CurveLight said:


> Of course we also know what the outcome of this will be.  You will admit you were wrong (eventually) then follow it up with "it doesn't matter."  You always do that.  So why is it you vehemently stick to a clearly false claim to try and defend it only to say "it doesn't matter" when it's shown your claim is bullshit?


now that i have proved you wrong are you willing to admit your mistake?


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > DiveCon said:
> ...




Logic and reason? ROTFL!  Yo haven't come anywhere close to that.  You dismiss the two flights with no tail numbers with no reason.  

But wait.....here comes the REALLY funny part.  You say the government is not competent enough to keep records as simple as this.......yet..........

YOU BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE GOVERNMENT HAS SAID ABOUT NINE ELEVEN!!!!  

ROTFL!  It's like I'm paying you to show how inconsistent and ill informed you are.


----------



## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> * * * *
> now that i have proved you [bent tight] wrong are you willing to admit your mistake?



The Magic 8 Ball says, "it does not appear likely".


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...


the planes HAD TAIL NUMBERS, MORON
the REPORTS OF THE FLIGHT STATUS DIDNT
get the fucking facts right
the government people fucked up the reports you dumb fucking MORON


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...




Holy shit you are a waste of time. 

I NEVER SAID IT RECORDS NO LESS THAN 25 HOURS.

A few pages ago I pointed out FDR's will record between 17-25 hrs and that is when you claimed that was wrong with no evidence.  Even after I provide the links above stating the FDR RECORDS ON A LOOP you still fucking ignore it.  What in the fuck is wrong with you?  The links point blank say it records up to 25 hours but you want to play semantics to try and avoid admitting you fucked up.  Here is the SEVENTH link that points out the recording time:

"Most FDRs record approximately 17&#8211;25 hours worth of data in a continuous loop."
Flight data recorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh damn, that's another link that points out it is on a continuous loop.  Take divecon's dick out of your mouth long enough to read the post.  (hey maybe you can whine about that as an excuse to avoid admitting you're fucking clueless on the fdr?)  

As for the tail numbers.....follow that link and enter the flight info for 77 and 11 and you will see no tail number is assigned to those flights.
http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatistics/src/dstat/OntimeSummaryDepatures.xml


----------



## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Wow!  The Magic 8 Ball was REALLY good!


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Liability said:


> Fizz said:
> 
> 
> > * * * *
> ...




Hahaha...that's all you guys got.  It doesn't matter how many times you fuck up.  Just give each other a high five and keep rolling.  That's why your security is not in information but only numbers.


----------



## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > Fizz said:
> ...



The Magic 8 Ball was so damn accurate, it is now geting proved right TWICE in ONE "predicition."

The problem with morons like bent tight is that his position suffers from any kind of close inspection using numbers or any other kind of real information.  Logic itself laughs at schmucks like bent tight.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Holy shit you are a waste of time.
> 
> I NEVER SAID IT RECORDS NO LESS THAN 25 HOURS.
> 
> ...


ahhhhh wikipedia. where anyone can write anything. go take a look at the construction of the WTC and look at how many times chrisophera has put concrete core in there.

i guess wikipedia should have put "at least" in there somewhere as these are the minimums they are stating. you can go correct it if you like. anybody can write whatever they want.



CurveLight said:


> Oh damn, that's another link that points out it is on a continuous loop.  Take divecon's dick out of your mouth long enough to read the post.  (hey maybe you can whine about that as an excuse to avoid admitting you're fucking clueless on the fdr?)


let me make this really easy for you. i have the FDR data from the guy that claims the door was never opened. it is here. http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRDecoder/OutputFiles/FinalFlightComplete.csv

now that file has about 12 flights worth of data going way over the 25 hour limit you say.
so lets make this simple. either the data file that has over 25 hours on it is valid (i count about 90 hours) and the flight door data is valid.......

OR

because it has more than 25 hours on it that means the data is invalid. that also means the door not being opened data is invalid.

you cant have it both ways. its all the same file. its either a valid file or it isnt.



CurveLight said:


> As for the tail numbers.....follow that link and enter the flight info for 77 and 11 and you will see no tail number is assigned to those flights.
> BTS | Airline On-Time Statistics


i'll look at it but how do you know when the tail number data went missing? was it always blank? maybe when the tail number was taken out of service due to the crash it caused this??


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

the tail number thing is just another of the multiple MINUTIA they use to make claims that dont fit in with reality


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



I'm the one who posted six links showing how fdr works.....2 from NTSB....3 from publications and one from a manufacturer.  All showing they work on a loop of 25 hours.  One said "loop principle" because it's a fucking digital recorder.  Hell, stick to your outright lying.....you sure as hell can't respond to the info.


----------



## CurveLight (Dec 12, 2009)

DiveCon said:


> the tail number thing is just another of the multiple MINUTIA they use to make claims that dont fit in with reality



Everything you can't explain is claimed to be minutia.  You punks are a fucking waste of time.  Bye bye.


----------



## Trojan (Dec 12, 2009)

Terral said:


> Hi Trojan and Toro:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So the familes that went to the airport and SAW their loved ones get on a plane -- the ticket agents that worked the flight, the ground crews, and AA personnel at the airport -- all are either part of the conspiracy or part of the cover up .. is this your claim?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> DiveCon said:
> 
> 
> > the tail number thing is just another of the multiple MINUTIA they use to make claims that dont fit in with reality
> ...


no, trying to have a logical rational discussion on this topic with fucking morons like YOU is a waste of time

when the fuck are you gonna realize that ONLY YOU FUCKING DELUSIONAL ASSWIPES THINK IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB AND SEEK OUT PROFESSIONAL FUCKING HELP


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> As for the tail numbers.....follow that link and enter the flight info for 77 and 11 and you will see no tail number is assigned to those flights.
> BTS | Airline On-Time Statistics



well there's ten minutes of my life i will never get back.... 

didnt you just claim you do you own research a couple of posts ago?

well, you suck at it.

you made it sound like the tail number was missing from only these two flights and it was some big mystery. you are a jackass.

look at ANY flight from ANY airport on ANY airline that day. it looks like EVERY flight that didnt arrive at its destination by the time all planes were told to land have the same missing data. jesus, put in las vegas and southwest airlines for september 11th and you get a bazillion flights with the same shit........

fucking hell, you are a waste of time......


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> I'm the one who posted six links showing how fdr works.....2 from NTSB....3 from publications and one from a manufacturer.  All showing they work on a loop of 25 hours.  One said "loop principle" because it's a fucking digital recorder.  Hell, stick to your outright lying.....you sure as hell can't respond to the info.



all you proved is that you are too fucking stupid to understand things that you read.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > I'm the one who posted six links showing how fdr works.....2 from NTSB....3 from publications and one from a manufacturer.  All showing they work on a loop of 25 hours.  One said "loop principle" because it's a fucking digital recorder.  Hell, stick to your outright lying.....you sure as hell can't respond to the info.
> ...


haven't i been saying that for some time now?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> I'm the one who posted six links showing how fdr works.....2 from NTSB....3 from publications and one from a manufacturer.  All showing they work on a loop of 25 hours.  One said "loop principle" because it's a fucking digital recorder.  Hell, stick to your outright lying.....you sure as hell can't respond to the info.



here ya go, jackass..... 

"The new Fairchild Model FA2100 series of recorders is 30 percent lighter than the current generation of protected recorders, and records *more than 25 hours of flight data,* L-3 officials say."

Commercial technology broadens mass-memory options for systems designers - Military & Aerospace Electronics

oh, while you are doing your research check what make and model the FDR was in flight 77. (jackass!!)


----------



## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

CurveLight said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Bent tight:  

You can post lots of stuff and link to your heart's content.  The problem is you clearly do not understand most of what you do link.

You have been exposed as an imbecile or a liar (take your pick) in this thread REPEATEDLY.

Your words are now quite meaningless.  

You have become something of a cat's playtoy.  You are just fun to bat around a little bit from time to time.  But you have no substance.

The OP's premise itself has been thoroughly debunked and you are either too embarrassed to just admit it and move on -- or too fucking stupid to even recognize how the evidence has pwnd you repeatedly.

You make me to laff!


----------



## eots (Dec 12, 2009)

Liability said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> > Liability said:
> ...



but then you are irrelevent so...


----------



## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > CurveLight said:
> ...



Moron can't even finish a thought.  Hell, a jerkoff like you can barely begin a thought.

I may be irrelevant to you.  I couldn't care less.  It's like you being irrelevant to everyone WITH a functioning brain.  Id-eots doesn't care!  

The OP has been thoroughly debunked.  It started off stupid and then got reamed.  So, of course, you, being a fucking moron, stick with it!


----------



## Toro (Dec 12, 2009)

Trojan said:


> Terral said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Trojan and Toro:
> ...



AND who received calls from the planes, AND who were delivered mementos from the crash.

Yes, that is his claim.


----------



## eots (Dec 12, 2009)

my claim is the official story is untrue and a cover-up


----------



## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> my claim is the official story is untrue and a cover-up



That can't be it.

If the "official" story is allegedly "untrue" and a "cover-up," then what is it covering up?

What is the "true" story?

Are you claiming you don't know?

Or, are you claiming you have some evidence to support accusing some person or entity or State other than al qaeda?

Who had the motive to commit these atrocities?

If not al qaeda, who was it and what did they have to "gain" by doing it?


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

Liability said:


> [
> If not al qaeda, who was it and what did they have to "gain" by doing it?


i can think of lots of groups that could potentially gain from it but there is no evidence that points to anyone except al-qeda.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> my claim is the official story is untrue and a cover-up



and you came to that conclusion without any solid proof at all. amazing.


----------



## Liability (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



A vivid imagination is all well and good.  But I agree, it makes a bit more sense (which is to say it makes at least _some_ sense) to weed out such prospects via evidence.  There is no evidence these Troofers have EVER even considered attempting to point to that any entity other than al qaeda has any culpability for the 9/11/2001 atrocities.  Yet these scumbagTroofers are more than happy to jump on *a* false denial by the leader of the group that clearly DID do the deeds.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

Liability said:


> Yet these scumbagTroofers are more than happy to jump on *a* false denial by the leader of the group that clearly DID do the deeds.



i find that disturbing as well. they have no problem believing the known terrorist bin laden when he denied anything to do with 9/11 (even though he admits it later) but they refuse to believe all the hard evidence that it was NOT an inside job.


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

Fizz said:


> Liability said:
> 
> 
> > Yet these scumbagTroofers are more than happy to jump on *a* false denial by the leader of the group that clearly DID do the deeds.
> ...


it was not Bin Laden that denied it
it was a release by the taliban that knew the ass whomping it was about to get and was trying to make it seem as though they didnt allow bin laden to do it


----------



## eots (Dec 12, 2009)

`you mean all the hard evidence you can not produce and instead just claim to have produced


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> `you mean all the hard evidence you can not produce and instead just claim to have produced



Hard evidence? You haven't a shred and you want to talk about hard evidence?


----------



## DiveCon (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> `you mean all the hard evidence you can not produce and instead just claim to have produced


and he lies again


----------



## Fizz (Dec 12, 2009)

eots said:


> `you mean all the hard evidence you can not produce and instead just claim to have produced



how about we start with this one, Mr Impossible.






hey look!!!! its an airplane flying into the building!!!! you fucking moron....


----------



## eots (Dec 13, 2009)

ya we see a plane hit the building moron,,but all that is required to reach this moment and its aftermath is the question and the answer given do not stand up...there is a cover-up and this event has been used to set the entire middle eastern foreign policy and the invasion of two nations and it is built on a lie


----------



## Liability (Dec 13, 2009)

eots said:


> ya we see a plane hit the building moron,,but all that is required to reach this moment and its aftermath is the question and the answer given do not stand up...there is a cover-up and this event has been used to set the entire middle eastern foreign policy and the invasion of two nations and it is built on a lie



There is not an iota of grammatical sense in that stupid post.  To the extent your stupidity can be translated into English, you remain a pontificating braying jackass.  There is no reliable evidence of anything that contradicts what we all saw and what the "official" story tells us.  

Your ability to properly use facts and to employ anything even remotely akin to logic or reason is utterly lacking.


----------



## Fizz (Dec 13, 2009)

eots said:


> there is a cover-up and this event has been used to set the entire middle eastern foreign policy and the invasion of two nations and it is built on a lie



show proof.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 26, 2022)

FOOTAGE AIRED ON 9/11 BUT NEVER AIRED AGAIN, YOU WILL SEE WHY ONCE YOU WATCH THE VIDEO.


----------



## rightwinger (Jul 26, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> FOOTAGE AIRED ON 9/11 BUT NEVER AIRED AGAIN, YOU WILL SEE WHY ONCE YOU WATCH THE VIDEO.



Oswald acted ALONE!


----------



## ranfunck (Jul 26, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> FOOTAGE AIRED ON 9/11 BUT NEVER AIRED AGAIN, YOU WILL SEE WHY ONCE YOU WATCH THE VIDEO.


You know none of these fucking morons will watch that video.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 28, 2022)

ranfunck said:


> You know none of these fucking morons will watch that video.



Yep,just look at the two shills from Langley left winger and hjmick as evidence they won’t watch the video  ranfunck

true to form,those two stupid fuck shills prove in spades as always everyday that they are incapable of standing toe to toe in a debate.they prove they did not watch the video and cannot refute it so like the cowards they are,instead of making an attempt to debunk the facts,they prove in spades the cowards they are by not even saying a word and trying to laugh off facts knowing they are checkmated.

i wish there was something out there where you could call in and make a prediction on retarded stupid fuck shills like them,because if there were,I would make a fortune and make billions off of them predicting what they will do because they are such a joke and such pathetic debaters unable to stand toe to toe in a debate,like clockwork,they are easy as pie to predict.

I could easily have won a fortune right now off of them if it was possible  to  make money on predictions of posters like those two cowards  cause those two cowards proved as always,they won’t address the evidence and try to laugh off facts when getting a major ass beating getting checkmated.


I returned the favor,they have proven years ago they put me on ignore sense they ignore evidence I give them thst they never address pretending I did not post anything,so sense they put ME on ignore years ago obviously,I returned the favor to those twp  paid shills and did the same back to them putting THEM on ignore,two can play their game.


----------



## westwall (Jul 28, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> FOOTAGE AIRED ON 9/11 BUT NEVER AIRED AGAIN, YOU WILL SEE WHY ONCE YOU WATCH THE VIDEO.





Who cares.  When aircraft crash at high speed into solid objects, there is VERY little left.

I watched the video.  I have also been around LOTs of plane crashes in my air race career.  The biggest piece of Jimmy's airplane after impact was a prop blade.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 28, 2022)

westwall said:


> Who cares.  When aircraft crash at high speed into solid objects, there is VERY little left.
> 
> I watched the video.  I have also been around LOTs of plane crashes in my air race career.  The biggest piece of Jimmy's airplane after impact was a prop blade.


As always you embarrass yourself  in this debate the fact the reporter is saying there is no evidence a jet airliner hit the pentagon yet the 9/11 coverup commission from the cia controlled media you worship as the gospel truth in this case,is claiming that a jet airliner struck it without any evidence to back it up  you always end up with shit on your face in embarrassment as well ignoring the best pilots in the world who have said they could never do all those incredible maneuvers that the 9/11 commission said the plane did and how a trafficcontroller thought because of all the incredible maneuvers it made,thst it was a jet fighter,let’s see,you are asking me to take YOUR word over the best pilots in the world THEIR word as well as what the CIA controlled media has reported over the years.gee I wonder which one I should do,that’s a tough one.

You seriously need to do yourself a favor in stick with voting fraud and the virus hoax,something you  actually know something about and don’t leave with shit on your face in embarrassment all the time,.

The pentagon has hundreds of cameras there and they can only produce a flimsy ten second video of an alleged airliner hitting the wall and an explosion,your seriously trying to say the evil pentagon is not participating in a coverup? Oh and don’t forget transportation minettas exposing Cheneys criminal activity in his testimony stating it’s within ten miles do the orders still stand arn Cheney screamed of course they still stand,have you heard otherwise,yep Cheney is not evil and no coverup there by our wonderful truthful government. Get off that crack your smoking old man. 

Your humiliating and embarrassing yourself worse than left winger and hjmick trollboys do,they at least are smart enough to keep quiet and not try to stand toe to toe with me knowing i checkmate them everyday and they are in the minor leagues  knowing they can’t handle the big boys in the major leagues like me,you would be wise to do the same as them. 


Your definitely on drugs for sure,your rambling on about jimmy’s airplane,like who the fuck is jimmy.god you sound like you been taking lessons from left winger and hjmick on how to debate 9/11.  When I hear jimmy,the only jimmy thst comes to mind thst I think of is jimmy carter,is that who your mindlessly rambling on about?


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

You mentioned thst planes many times have crashed into buildings without leaving damage,yiu have been exposed as a liar,same as left winger,coyote and hijeck Langley shills always do,you LIE when getting checkmated as well as evading facts.

I am on a tablet now so I can’t post pics but tomorrow when I’m on the computer I will post the pics of many planes thst crashed into buildings and the wreckage of most the planes was visible.the fact you do the same thing Langley shills left winger,hjmick and coyote do which is LIE all the time when losing a debate and evades facts thst prove you wrong,leads me to believe you are a shill from Langley as well same  as them.

only unlike them,you are a controlled opposition shill whereas they are transparent as hell they are paid shills.you cleverly pretend to be a patriotic American by posting facts on the virus being a hoax,not dangerous as the media claims and it is the vaccine that’s dangerous and also tellimg the truth that massive election fraud happened making it appear your concerned about  government corrution when in realty you are as corrupt and as much a paid shill as them.

I git to hand it to you,you had me fooled all these years yiu were a patriot,you are very clever indeed,I won’t deny thst,damn I can’t believe I got played by you all these years and did not peg you a long time ago for the  paid shill you are part of the controlled opposition,I should have seen it a long time ago.damn I can’t believe I was so blind all these years.

When I first saw you posting facts about the lies of the government and media that the virus is dangerous and e tellimg the truth thst it was the vaccines that were only dangerous and the truth thst the election was stolen from trump,I figured you had finally woke up and ready to admit you were brainwashed on 9/11 and had finally grown up and accepted it was an inside job,I was obviously wrong,your incapable of ever growing up and admitting your wrong on this same as left winger,coyote and hijeck are on vaccines and election fraud sense same as them you are also a paid shill who also hates America.


----------



## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> You mentioned thst planes many times have crashed into buildings without leaving damage,yiu have been exposed as a liar,same as left winger,coyote and hijeck Langley shills always do,you LIE when getting checkmated as well as evading facts.
> 
> I am on a tablet now so I can’t post pics but tomorrow when I’m on the computer I will post the pics of many planes thst crashed into buildings and the wreckage of most the planes was visible.the fact you do the same thing Langley shills left winger,hjmick and coyote do which is LIE all the time when losing a debate and evades facts thst prove you wrong,leads me to believe you are a shill from Langley as well same  as them.
> 
> ...




Go to YouTube and look up F4 phantom into wall.

It is a near 60,000 pound jet and it disintegrates into nothing.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> Go to YouTube and look up F4 phantom into wall.
> 
> It is a near 60,000 pound jet and it disintegrates into nothing.


Your playing dodgeball shill thst the pentagon participated in a coverup only showing a measly 10 second video of the plane hitting the wall as they’re fucking pathetic evidence and many experts pilots have said the hole was way too small fir a plane to hit it and thst there should have been wreckage thst you normally see as well that they have said it’s impossible for a commercial plane to do those incredible maneuvers,your asking me to believe YOUR  babble and the cia controlled media lies,the same cia media you admit lies about election fraud and the virus,to listen to THEM and you,over the best airline commercial pilots in the world as well as witnesses being pentagon employees.  your boss sure pays you well to embarrass yourself,you are one clever controlled opposition shill,I give you thst.you had me fooled all these years,man it was right in front of my eyes what a shill you are and I did not see it.damn you sure are clever the way you played me and hundreds of others here all these years.

Not to mention the evil FBI illegally confiscating the video footage from the gas station across the street,your the same  as left winger and coyote and the trolls who say no evidence of election fraud,your going to troll  like they do on the stolen election and say no evidence of a government coverup  just as they do when they say  there was no evidence of election fraud,


----------



## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Your playing dodgeball shill thst the pentagon participated in a coverup only showing a measly 10 second video of the plane hitting the wall as they’re fucking pathetic evidence and many experts pilots have said the hole was way too small fir a plane to hit it and thst there should have been wreckage thst you normally see as well that they have said it’s impossible for a commercial plane to do those incredible maneuvers,your asking me to believe YOUR  babble and the cia controlled media lies,the same cia media you admit lies about election fraud and the virus,to listen to THEM and you,over the best airline commercial pilots in the world as well as witnesses being pentagon employees.  your boss sure pays you well to embarrass yourself,you are one clever controlled opposition shill,I give you thst.you had me fooled all these years,man it was right in front of my eyes what a shill you are and I did not see it.damn you sure are clever the way you played me and hundreds of others here all these years.
> 
> Not to mention the evil FBI illegally confiscating the video footage from the gas station across the street,your the same  as left winger and coyote and the trolls who say no evidence of election fraud,your going to troll  like they do on the stolen election and say no evidence of a government coverup  just as they do when they say  there was no evidence of election fraud,





No, dude.  I'm not.  You and I are pretty close in philosophy.  You insult the wrong person.

I'm not a Langley shill, but I am a scientist,  and I have been involved in aviation for over 50 years.

I know what happens when planes crash.


----------



## ranfunck (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> Who cares.  When aircraft crash at high speed into solid objects, there is VERY little left.
> 
> I watched the video.  I have also been around LOTs of plane crashes in my air race career.  The biggest piece of Jimmy's airplane after impact was a prop blade.


Seen that vid that wall was built to withstand a nuclear blast pentagon was not. If the plane disintegrated on impacted how did all the damage happen to c and b inner and outer walls there goes your theory.


----------



## ranfunck (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, dude.  I'm not.  You and I are pretty close in philosophy.  You insult the wrong person.
> 
> I'm not a Langley shill, but I am a scientist,  and I have been involved in aviation for over 50 years.
> 
> I know what happens when planes crash.


Not in this case Mr. scientist what happened to all the seats and luggage did they all disintegrate too ?


----------



## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

ranfunck said:


> Seen that vid that wall was built to withstand a nuclear blast pentagon was not. If the plane disintegrated on impacted how did all the damage happen to c and b inner and outer walls there goes your theory.





That's where the engines went.  The only truly hard pieces on a passenger jet.

And, no, the wall the F-4 hit was about 2 feet thick.  Nowhere close to resisting a nuke


----------



## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

ranfunck said:


> Not in this case Mr. scientist what happened to all the seats and luggage did they all disintegrate too ?





They burnt.  Jet-A burns real hot.

Jimmy crashed into a box at the 2011 air races.  His plane was a highly modified P-51.  There were three people  that they only found tiny bits of. Like millimeters. 

That was a tiny plane doing 250 knots or so.


----------



## ranfunck (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> That's where the engines went.  The only truly hard pieces on a passenger jet.
> 
> And, no, the wall the F-4 hit was about 2 feet thick.  Nowhere close to resisting a nuke


Look it up I just did https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=36c6...ZGlkbnQta25vdy10aGF0LXdvdWxkLWhhcHBlbi8&ntb=1


----------



## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

ranfunck said:


> Look it up I just did https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=36c6...ZGlkbnQta25vdy10aGF0LXdvdWxkLWhhcHBlbi8&ntb=1





Yeah, there was a picture of one of the compressor units from an engine in the C ring.

Well remnants of it.


----------



## ranfunck (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> Yeah, there was a picture of one of the compressor units from an engine in the C ring.
> 
> Well remnants of it.


I could sit here and prove you wrong all night long but I gotta get up early for work. By the way what about that wall? Your no match.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, dude.  I'm not.  You and I are pretty close in philosophy.  You insult the wrong person.
> 
> I'm not a Langley shill, but I am a scientist,  and I have been involved in aviation for over 50 years.
> 
> I know what happens when planes crash.


While I haven't been involved in aviation that much for "over 50 years", I do have several years experience in fabrication and inspection of aircraft components, so likely have more first hand knowledge than some of the loons posting here.

Back in the early 1970s worked at a place making skin panels for the fuselage and wing assemblies of Boeing 727 and then they were mostly aluminum.  By the late 1990s when I again returned to aerospace fabrication employment, things had changed and a majority of aircraft structure and skin was now "composites" = mostly carbon fiber impregnated with "resin" ~a.k.a. plastics, petroleum derived.

For those whom did not do or pass basic science, "carbon fiber" and "hydro-carbon based plastics made from petroleum" are both very combustible with enough heat and flame.  The place I was employed was a major sub-contractor of Boeing for structural composites for the 757 and 767 and I worked there from late 1990s to mid 2000s, during the time of the 9/11/2001 Trade Center attacks.

On both the 757 and 767 a majority of the airframe components are composites = plastics = petroleum/hydro-carbon based composition.  Metal parts of such aircraft are mostly the engines and landing gears, then some assorted frame and fastener pieces~rivets, bolts, etc.; but most are aluminum and melt(burn) at rather low temps. Interiors are mostly fiberglass based composites for overhead storage bins, walls and panels, seat frames.  Fabric seat coves and rugs are also synthetic made from petroleum.

Bottom line is that a modern jet liner like the Boeing 757 and 767 is about as much plastiuc as the scale model kit you could by at a 'Hobby Lobby'.  Build such a kit and douse with a couple tablespoons of diesel fuel (diesel is very close chemically to jet fuel), light it on fire and watch how quick and hot it burns and how little will be left.  Wear PCP, stay back and upwind BTW.

Add in how much of the interior of those offices are also made from plastics and synthetics derived from petroleum and one has a huge fire fuel mix just waiting for enough heat, flame, and starter fuel to blaze away and leave little in remains.

BTW, one doesn't need to melt the steel outer frame structure.  Just get it hot enough to soften, loose structure strength and start to bend under stress load and bow out from the slab floors, removing their support, and the whole stack starts to collapse and fall down.

It's all basic science, chemistry and physics, but to those whom neither took such courses in their schooling, or didn't understand and pass such, the reality of what happened and why will elude them.  Hence some of the crazy conspiracy theories on how/why the towers collapsed after aircraft crashing into them.  Along with a few other goofball claims I've seen here.

And some wonder why the USA is slipping behind in the world.  Just look at the shortfalls and gaps in so many on basic sciences, knowledge and logic and it becomes clear that the idiot inmates are growing in number and running this asylum.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> As always you embarrass yourself  in this debate the fact the reporter is saying there is no evidence a jet airliner hit the pentagon yet the 9/11 coverup commission from the cia controlled media you worship as the gospel truth in this case,is claiming that a jet airliner struck it without any evidence to back it up  you always end up with shit on your face in embarrassment as well ignoring the best pilots in the world who have said they could never do all those incredible maneuvers that the 9/11 commission said the plane did and how a trafficcontroller thought because of all the incredible maneuvers it made,thst it was a jet fighter,let’s see,you are asking me to take YOUR word over the best pilots in the world THEIR word as well as what the CIA controlled media has reported over the years.gee I wonder which one I should do,that’s a tough one.
> 
> You seriously need to do yourself a favor in stick with voting fraud and the virus hoax,something you  actually know something about and don’t leave with shit on your face in embarrassment all the time,.
> 
> ...


Stryker your embarrassing yoursel


ranfunck said:


> Not in this case Mr. scientist what happened to all the seats and luggage did they all disintegrate too ?


this trollboy keeps evading the coverup of the fbi destroying the evidence and the fact thst Cheney committed treason thst day ignoring the testimony of Norman minetta who testified thst Cheney said it is ten miles out,do the orders still stand and Cheney yelling at them that yes they still stood very clever controlled opposition shill at its best.

One pentagon employee said anytime an alleged plane in this case, comes anywhere close to the pentagon alarms always sound way before before it gets there all over the place,Cheney had knowledge of there was something coming toward them hundreds of miles out and gave a stand down order.this coward can’t admit a cover up and the fbi and Cheney fuckimg committed treason thst fay.

He will admit the fbi destroyed photographic evidence a photographer  took tuna ting his camera and not returning the many shots he took but them makes excuse after excuse thst the fbi all of a sudden turned over their leaf and is not evil anymore and did nit illegally confiscate the footage from the gas station across street,what a trollboy Same as left winger. You get triggered by thst truthful post of mine but fail to debunk anything in it same as westall.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> While I haven't been involved in aviation that much for "over 50 years", I do have several years experience in fabrication and inspection of aircraft components, so likely have more first hand knowledge than some of the loons posting here.
> 
> Back in the early 1970s worked at a place making skin panels for the fuselage and wing assemblies of Boeing 727 and then they were mostly aluminum.  By the late 1990s when I again returned to aerospace fabrication employment, things had changed and a majority of aircraft structure and skin was now "composites" = mostly carbon fiber impregnated with "resin" ~a.k.a. plastics, petroleum derived.
> 
> ...


Your the loon,the best pilots in the world have debunked your bullshit.your the loon same as trollboy westall the fact so many are on record saying it is impossible fir a commercial airliner to do all those incredible maneuvering feats  they did in the air,that they could not do them,thst a commercial airliner would come to pieces in the air if they attempted that..  you two trollboys ask us to beliveve your babbling over them and thst the fbi all of a sudden did not become an evil organization that day and illegally confiscate footage from the gas station across the street.despite thier decades long history of corruption they have.major fail,same as westall,yiu have shut in your face in embarrassment.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

westwall said:


> No, dude.  I'm not.  You and I are pretty close in philosophy.  You insult the wrong person.
> 
> I'm not a Langley shill, but I am a scientist,  and I have been involved in aviation for over 50 years.
> 
> I know what happens when planes crash.



You trollboy try to get me to believe your bullshit over the best pilots in the world who have debunked your bullshit.whatever paid shill.grow the fuck  up,yiu have shit in your face as always in embarrassment.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Your the loon,the best pilots in the world have debunked your bullshit.your the loon same as trollboy westall the fact so many are on record saying it is impossible fir a commercial airliner to do all those incredible maneuvering feats  they did in the air,that they could not do them,thst a commercial airliner would come to pieces in the air if they attempted that..  you two trollboys ask us to beliveve your babbling over them and thst the fbi all of a sudden did not become an evil organization that day and illegally confiscate footage from the gas station across the street.despite thier decades long history of corruption they have.major fail,same as westall,yiu have shut in your face in embarrassment.


1) I'd like to know what "best pilots in the world" you have consulted and are willing to put their reputations on line to back your delusions.

2) I've flown aircraft and nothing in the flight envelope done on that day are beyond capability of the aircraft involved or real pilots; even the partial trained Jihadis whom hijacked them.

3) I strongly doubt you've ever flown an aircraft or have the slightest clue what's involved or how to do such.  Go spit into the wind.

4) You do a great job of displaying your ignorance and stupidity, but I don't post to change your blind and biased ignorance. I post for the benefit of any whom might be fooled into thinking you have any clue or credibility regards what is being discussed here.

5) Go Ram your Fan where the Sun don't shine!


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

ranfunck said:


> I could sit here and prove you wrong all night long but I gotta get up early for work. By the way what about that wall? Your no match.


Yeah unlike trollboy,you have a job you go to and get paid for,you don’t make the big bucks to troll these threads as he does. It gets tiresome of proving him wrong over and over,watching him evade the treason Cheney and the fbi committed that day.trollboy and thst other loon of his wants to try and convince us THEY are right and  top military people thst have spoken up as well as the best pilots in the world aware all e wrong,they keep grasping at straws throwing Hail Marys telling us THEY are right and all those expert pilots as well as pentagon employees are all wrong,comedy gold they have that hysteric logic they are right and all those experts are wrong.
 left winger  has schooled westall and how to troll.


Normal sane people would laugh at his pathetic logic that he try’s to get us to believe HIS babble over the best pilots in the world and on top of that,the fbi despite their criminal behavior in the jfk and rfk assassinations all of a sudden turned over a leaf thst day and did not destroy evidence from that gas station and thst Cheney did not commit treason thst day violating standard protocols that day,that transportation Norman minettas testimony is not a smoking gun of cheneys criminal behavior that day,you just can’t make that shit up that trollboy day those experts are all wrong and HE is right.this guy me with his comedy Hail Marys he throws when getting checkmated.

I’m sure glad I got one Dane person in you at least who came on here I can rap with.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Your the loon,the best pilots in the world have debunked your bullshit.your the loon same as trollboy westall the fact so many are on record saying it is impossible fir a commercial airliner to do all those incredible maneuvering feats  they did in the air,that they could not do them,thst a commercial airliner would come to pieces in the air if they attempted that..  you two trollboys ask us to beliveve your babbling over them and thst the fbi all of a sudden did not become an evil organization that day and illegally confiscate footage from the gas station across the street.despite thier decades long history of corruption they have.major fail,same as westall,yiu have shut in your face in embarrassment.


We can add ignorance on top of you being an idiot.  Here's a case that didn't involve "impossible" flight of an aircraft, yet is similar to the events of 9/11/2001;
...
On July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber of the United States Army Air Forces crashed into the Empire State Building in New York City, while flying in thick fog. The accident caused the deaths of fourteen people (three crewmen and eleven people in the building) and damage estimated at US$1 million (equivalent to about $15 million in 2021), although the building's structural integrity was not compromised.[1]
...








						1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



Images for *B-25 crashed into empire state building










						B-25 crashed into empire state building at DuckDuckGo
					

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




					duckduckgo.com
				



...*
When a B-25 crashed into the Empire State Building​


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> 1) I'd like to know what "best pilots in the world" you have consulted and are willing to put their reputations on line to back your delusions.
> 
> 2) I've flown aircraft and nothing in the flight envelope done on that day are beyond capability of the aircraft involved or real pilots; even the partial trained Jihadis whom hijacked them.
> 
> ...


That just proves your ignorance,even trollboy  westall is aware of the pilots for truth site I discussed with him once years ago.

They also came out and talked  about it on YouTube way back then as well,yiu  won’t find them on YouTube now though sense facist YouTube deleted them having too much truth in them that sheds to pieces the lies of the government and cia controlled media you both like fools,worship as the gospel truth, 

You same as shill westall just proved you also are in the minor leagues not ready fir the big leagues with the likes of me and rancid old man.

You just lost your credibility there even worse than westall has,westall at least in all his as beatings he has suffered from me alll these years,HE at least is aware of the pilots for truth site,

Come back when your ready to be mature and admit I would have to be a fool to listen to you instead of all those experts as well as a whistleblower pentagon employee who has gone through  harassment  but the cia controlled media and government over the years.

Westall trolls all the time trying to tell me THEY are all wrong and he is right and that Cheney did not commit treason that day and violate standard pentago protocols and the fbi iall of a sudden did nit become an evil organization that destroyed evidence that day despite their lonnnnnnmmnggggbbh history of corruption over the years so o reason to believe you will be mature either and admit to being wrong.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> We can add ignorance on top of you being an idiot.  Here's a case that didn't involve "impossible" flight of an aircraft, yet is similar to the events of 9/11/2001;
> ...
> On July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber of the United States Army Air Forces crashed into the Empire State Building in New York City, while flying in thick fog. The accident caused the deaths of fourteen people (three crewmen and eleven people in the building) and damage estimated at US$1 million (equivalent to about $15 million in 2021), although the building's structural integrity was not compromised.[1]
> ...
> ...


Your the world class idiot the fact pilots for truth as I just said have debunked your bullshit and you keep having fantasy’s same as westall trollboy Cheney did not commit an evil act thst day as well violating standard pentagon protocols and the fbi all of a sudden stopped being an evil organization that day and did not illegally destroy evidence despite their decades long past of doing that so many years decade after decade..


Major fail as always dame as westall,  goodbye,yiu a fucking waste of time and a joke,same as westall you keep evading the corrupting of Cheney and the fbi thst day and as I have told your fellow trollboy westall over the years,your an idiot expecting me to believe your babble over many of the best pilots in the world over at pilots for truth which again trollboy,facist youtube felypted so many of what they said back then sense there was too much truth in the videos.

Same as westall,you deflect when your proven wrong and Alonso a joke and waste of time,goodbye trollboy.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> That just proves your ignorance,even trollboy  westall is aware of the pilots for truth site I discussed with him once years ago.
> 
> They also came out and talked  about it on YouTube way back then as well,yiu  won’t find them on YouTube now though sense facist YouTube deleted them having too much truth in them that sheds to pieces the lies of the government and cia controlled media you both like fools,worship as the gospel truth,
> 
> ...


Triggerred I see sense the truth hurts and you know your licked unable to refute the treason Cheney and the fbi committed that day.poor troll. As I said,your  a joke even worse than  shill westall and not worth my time anymore.at least trollboy westall knows what I’m talking about on the pilots for truth site.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> That just proves your ignorance,even trollboy  westall is aware of the pilots for truth site I discussed with him once years ago.
> 
> They also came out and talked  about it on YouTube way back then as well,yiu  won’t find them on YouTube now though sense facist YouTube deleted them having too much truth in them that sheds to pieces the lies of the government and cia controlled media you both like fools,worship as the gospel truth,
> 
> ...


You can't spell or do grammar correctly yet think I should take you seriously ??? !!!
I suggest you get back on your meds and see professional medical and psychological counseling.


----------



## Stryder50 (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Your the world class idiot the fact pilots for truth as I just said have debunked your bullshit and you keep having fantasy’s same as westall trollboy Cheney did not commit an evil act thst day as well violating standard pentagon protocols and the fbi all of a sudden stopped being an evil organization that day and did not illegally destroy evidence despite their decades long past of doing that so many years decade after decade..
> 
> 
> Major fail as always dame as westall,  goodbye,yiu a fucking waste of time and a joke,same as westall you keep evading the corrupting of Cheney and the fbi thst day and as I have told your fellow trollboy westall over the years,your an idiot expecting me to believe your babble over many of the best pilots in the world over at pilots for truth which again trollboy,facist youtube felypted so many of what they said back then sense there was too much truth in the videos.
> ...


Since you repeat the same insane garbage, deserve the same repeat reply;

You can't spell or do grammar correctly yet think I should take you seriously ??? !!!
I suggest you get back on your meds and see professional medical and psychological counseling.


----------



## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Triggerred I see sense the truth hurts and you know your licked unable to refute the treason Cheney and the fbi committed that day.poor troll. As I said,your  a joke even worse than  shill westall and not worth my time anymore.at least trollboy westall knows what I’m talking about on the pilots for truth site.


Your anger the way you easily get triggeded when you deflect is priceless,boy at least westall shill is not triggered so easily as you are when getting checkmated,


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> You can't spell or do grammar correctly yet think I should take you seriously ??? !!!
> I suggest you get back on your meds and see professional medical and psychological counseling.


I’m on a tablet,it’s very difficult to type and spell correctly.it’s a. Chore.it’s quite a task.lol.


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## Stryder50 (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> I’m on a tablet,it’s very difficult to type and spell correctly.it’s a. Chore.it’s quite a task.lol.


No excuses private!
Back to digging latrines. That's all you are good for.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> Since you repeat the same insane garbage, deserve the same repeat reply;
> 
> You can't spell or do grammar correctly yet think I should take you seriously ??? !!!
> I suggest you get back on your meds and see professional medical and psychological counseling.


 It’s garbage to you because you  know your licked and have no answers to counter whst pilots say.at least westall is not the moron you are and at least knows about pilots or truth,yiu are even far worse in the minor leagues than him because of your ignorance in thst.

Yep I am the one that’s need counseling,I should listen tio the babble of you,westall,the fbi and Cheney and the cia media instead of the best pilots in the world,guess I need counseling for that faulty logic.maybe rancid we’ll have tolereran e over your deflection,im done listening to your babble and deflections you senile babbling old man.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

Stryder50 said:


> PNo excuses private!
> Back to digging latrines. That's all you are good for.


Love watching you dig your grave indeed came as westall that’s for sure,as I said,maybe rancid will want to listen to your deflection and pathetic evasions,I’m done with you this time for sure,good bye trollboy.
Was amusing at least watching you get triggered when deflect ting though.lol


Shoot the messenger,I pretend it’s me saying this not the best pilots in the world and the fbi and media did not commit treason if that makes you sleep better.


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## Stryder50 (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Your anger the way you easily get triggeded when you deflect is priceless,boy at least westall shill is not triggered so easily as you are when getting checkmated,


Not only do you fail at basic spelling and grammar, but you can't even express in intelligent and legible English(American).  You really are an ignorant dunce.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Love watching you dig your grave indeed came as westall that’s for sure,as I said,maybe rancid will want to listen to your deflection and pathetic evasions,I’m done with you this time for sure,good bye trollboy.
> Was amusing at least watching you get triggered when deflect ting though.lol
> 
> 
> Shoot the messenger,I pretend it’s me saying this not the best pilots in the world and the fbi and media did not commit treason if that makes you sleep better.


I rest my case,trollboy Stryder shoots the messenger thinking it’s my words and not the best pilots in the world and is such a dumbass he wasn’t even aware of the pilots fir truth site,even westall is not thst stupid and knows about that site rancid,well good luck to you rancid,can’t reason with a troll who thinks the fbi is not evil anymore and cheney did not violate pentagon protocols thst day and did not commit treason.  and wants me to believe  we should listen to his babble instead of those pilots that spoke out,dumbfuck shoots the messenger thinking these are my words and not them,that they did not say this,not even westall is that much a moron,I at least did not ever have to explain that site to him,waits for stryder to get triggered again after being checkmated and giving another thumbsdown angry in defeat.

Anyways rancid best of luck to you with thse trollboys if you decide to go any further with them,I’m done with these two stupid fuck cowards.


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## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Yeah unlike trollboy,you have a job you go to and get paid for,you don’t make the big bucks to troll these threads as he does. It gets tiresome of proving him wrong over and over,watching him evade the treason Cheney and the fbi committed that day.trollboy and thst other loon of his wants to try and convince us THEY are right and  top military people thst have spoken up as well as the best pilots in the world aware all e wrong,they keep grasping at straws throwing Hail Marys telling us THEY are right and all those expert pilots as well as pentagon employees are all wrong,comedy gold they have that hysteric logic they are right and all those experts are wrong.
> left winger  has schooled westall and how to troll.
> 
> 
> ...





Normal sane people don't resort to insults like you do.

I work with the best pilots in the world.  Boy.  The air race community is made up of test pilots, combat pilots, and NASA pilots.

I don’t know who your pilots are, but they don’t hold a candle to the guys I know.


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## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> Your anger the way you easily get triggeded when you deflect is priceless,boy at least westall shill is not triggered so easily as you are when getting checkmated,




We aren't angry dude.  You are the one splattering, and posturing, and acting like a baboon in heat.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

The fbi even though westall admits was in a coverup in the kennedy assassinations,all of a sudden did not become an evil organization that day and did not illegally destroy evidence from the gas station,they cleaned up their act that day and stopped being evil after DECADES of corruption and evil   Cheney did not violate pentagon protocols thst day,pentagon employees lied that day and never experienced harassment by government suits for having explanations thst did not fit their version even though it happened in the kennedy assassinstion as well,as well as top military brass and expert pilots around the world were all wrong and trolls westall and stryder are right and THEY are all wrong,  the shit you Guys make up in your Hail Marys you throw and ask us to listen to is priceless.you guys don’t even listen to the babble your saying.   Now westall is triggered angered over him being exposed as a moron as well. ranfunck I honestly don’t think they take the time to read the babble they post do you?.

ranfunck even with all those facts   they claim WE are the loons and need help.this shit just can’t be made up,it’s all there in black and white they have claimed all this.

Now Langley shills Leftwinger,hjmick,and coyote,I would expect that kind of retarded logic from THEM yeah,but not westall and stryder,never thought THEY could possibly be that fucking stupid  to follow logic like that,that’s the logic people on crack use,lol well I was wrong on thst,you learn something new everyday.


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## westwall (Jul 29, 2022)

LA RAM FAN said:


> The fbi even though westall admits was in a coverup in the kennedy assassinations,all of a sudden did not become an evil organization that day and did not illegally destroy evidence from the gas station,they cleaned up their act that day and stopped being evil after DECADES of corruption and evil   Cheney did not violate pentagon protocols thst day,pentagon employees lied that day and never experienced harassment by government suits for having explanations thst did not fit their version even though it happened in the kennedy assassinstion as well,as well as top military brass and expert pilots around the world were all wrong and trolls westall and stryder are right and they are wrong,the shit you Guys make up in your Hail Marys you throw and ask us to listen to is priceless.you guys don’t even listen to the babble your saying.   Now westall is triggered angered over him being exposed as a moron as well. ranfunck I honestly don’t think they take the time to read the babble they post do you?.
> 
> ranfunck even with all those facts   they claim WE are the loons and need help.this shit just can’t be made up,it’s all there in black and white they have claimed all this.







Dude, just give it up.  I AM a pilot.  I DO work on race planes capable of 500 knots.

I DO work with the best pilots in the world.

You do none of those things.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

ranfunck said:


> Seen that vid that wall was built to withstand a nuclear blast pentagon was not. If the plane disintegrated on impacted how did all the damage happen to c and b inner and outer walls there goes your theory.


You my man are making wayyyy too much sense for trollboy to understand.


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## LA RAM FAN (Jul 29, 2022)

ranfunck said:


> Not in this case Mr. scientist what happened to all the seats and luggage did they all disintegrate too ?


Knowing trollboy that’s his Hail Mary he wants us to swallow  along with the fbi all of a sudden not being an evil organization that day not destroying evidence as they have fir decades and Cheney did not violate pentagon protocols   that day,he was looking out for the employees,and did not commit treason and pentagon employees were not harrassed by government agents as they have fir decades fir saying there was a coverup,this shit just can’t be made up.


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