# Why Is Gas So High?



## edthecynic

The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.

DRILL, BABY, DRILL
so Big Oil can
EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT

Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay. 

*The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.


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## Mr. H.

Farmers export ethanol. 
BTW there is no "Big Oil" in the lower 48. It's the small guys. You know, like the small farmers.


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## Mr. H.

I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket. 

Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market. 
We're part of the globe.


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## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket.
> 
> Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market.
> We're part of the globe.


We are not importing corn from terrorist sponsoring countries to export corn flakes. Notice how CON$ are avoiding their bullshit about lack of refining capacity is driving up prices.

http://www.igc.int/downloads/gmrsummary/gmrsumme.pdf

MARKET COMMENTARY 

After showing some strength in early November, 
global grain export prices were again in retreat, 
though with rice once more the exception.  Overall, 
IGCs GOI index fell by 16 points, or 6%, to a 13- 
month low.


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## Mr. H.

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket.
> 
> Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market.
> We're part of the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> We are not importing corn from terrorist sponsoring countries to export corn flakes. Notice how CON$ are avoiding their bullshit about lack of refining capacity is driving up prices.
> 
> http://www.igc.int/downloads/gmrsummary/gmrsumme.pdf
> 
> MARKET COMMENTARY
> 
> After showing some strength in early November,
> global grain export prices were again in retreat,
> though with rice once more the exception.  Overall,
> IGCs GOI index fell by 16 points, or 6%, to a 13-
> month low.
Click to expand...


Grain prices aren't retreating fast enough. It doesn't matter that we don't import the same grains we produce. We should keep our grain and our cornflakes here in order to keep prices as cheap as possible. 

This is your logic with respect to crude oil and refined products, isn't it? 

We have adequate refining capacity in this country for meeting the demands for fuels. 
What is exported is a small fraction of what we import.


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## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket.
> 
> Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market.
> We're part of the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> We are not importing corn from terrorist sponsoring countries to export corn flakes. Notice how CON$ are avoiding their bullshit about lack of refining capacity is driving up prices.
> 
> http://www.igc.int/downloads/gmrsummary/gmrsumme.pdf
> 
> MARKET COMMENTARY
> 
> After showing some strength in early November,
> global grain export prices were again in retreat,
> though with rice once more the exception.  Overall,
> IGCs GOI index fell by 16 points, or 6%, to a 13-
> month low.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Grain prices aren't retreating fast enough. It doesn't matter that we don't import the same grains we produce. We should keep our grain and our cornflakes here in order to keep prices as cheap as possible.
> 
> This is your logic with respect to crude oil and refined products, isn't it?
> 
> We have adequate refining capacity in this country for meeting the demands for fuels.
> What is exported is a small fraction of what we import.
Click to expand...

So, since you admit we have more than ample refining capacity, drilling more oil here will not lower gasoline prices here.


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## waltky

US Exporting Record Amount Of Gasoline...

*Gasoline: The new big U.S. export*
_December 5, 2011: The U.S. still imports more than half its oil. But thanks to declining demand for products made from crude, the country is now supplying the rest of the world with gasoline._


> The United States is awash in gasoline. So much so, in fact, that the country is exporting a record amount of it.  The country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That is about twice the amount at the start of the year, and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.  The United States began exporting gas in late 2008. For decades prior, starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> 
> But demand for gas has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6 million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to the EIA.  The drop was caused partially by the recession but also by the advent of more fuel efficient vehicles, higher prices and the greater use of ethanol as an ingredient in gasoline. Demand for other products made from crude oil like diesel and jet fuel has also declined, although not as much.  To be sure, the United States is still importing plenty of oil to make that gasoline -- and is still dependent on foreign countries for well over half the crude it uses.
> 
> But now the country's massive refining infrastructure is producing more gasoline, diesel and jet fuel than the United States needs, freeing it up to be exported to places like Brazil, Mexico and Chile where demand is still strong.  The Wall Street Journal, which reported on the export trend last week, said the United States is on track this year to be a net exporter of refined products for the first time in 62 years.  "We've got plenty of excess refining capacity," said Jonathan Cogan, a spokesman for EIA. "It's a reminder that this is a global oil market, and it's reflected by the movements of products to where they will get the highest prices."
> 
> MORE


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## Mr. H.

edthecynic said:


> So, since you admit we have more than ample refining capacity, drilling more oil here will not lower gasoline prices here.



I'm just stating a fact. I wouldn't call it "more than ample", but refining capacity is adequate for meeting domestic fuel demads- up to a point. The net importation of gasoline fills that gap. 

But as I said, like ag products so goes petroleum. It's a global market. 
BTW- I take back that "small fraction" comment. We are exporting a considerable amount of gasoline. But as you know we are still a net importer. 

Regarding crude- the focus of drilling isn't to bring down prices. It is to produce the commodity here as opposed to importing. It creates jobs, generates economic activity, and increases revenues to local state and federal treasuries.


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## Mr. H.

waltky said:


> US Exporting Record Amount Of Gasoline...



errr... you're repeating what edthecynic already posted.


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## KissMy

We are only awash in gasoline because we make so much ethanol that takes the place of gasoline. We also export ethanol, DDG feed & corn. We still have to import oil to make diesel & other petroleum products which makes gasoline an excess byproduct.







If you want to know why prices are high then take an economics class. They will explain why the printing press will not make your country prosper.

.


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## richstacy

Nonsense cynic!!  You want to know why gas is so high??  *It's not.* But it will be.  China and India are putting millions of vehicles a year on the road.  That will increase the demand exponentially and decrease the supply,  Then we'll have high gas prices.  Whether you know it or not,  they already pay a bundle for the stuff in most of the rest to the world.  Generally more than twice what we pay! http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/10/news/international/gas_prices_worldwide/index.htm

If we are exporting so much gasoline, as you claim, then why are we importing more than half our oil, millions of barrels of crude a day from all over the world??  Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries






edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. ...


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## Mr. H.

I can understand the confusion w/re: to gasoline exports, and I'm not going to pretend to know all the answers. 
But I am aware that it is a compllicated market and that exporting such a product is often necessary in the course of business and industrial practice and the end result is actually beneficial to the consumer.


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## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, since you admit we have more than ample refining capacity, drilling more oil here will not lower gasoline prices here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just stating a fact. I wouldn't call it "more than ample", but *refining capacity is adequate for meeting domestic fuel demads- up to a point. The net importation of gasoline fills that gap. *
> 
> But as I said, like ag products so goes petroleum. It's a global market.
> BTW- I take back that "small fraction" comment. We are exporting a considerable amount of gasoline. But as you know we are still a net importer.
> 
> Regarding crude- the focus of drilling isn't to bring down prices. It is to produce the commodity here as opposed to importing. It creates jobs, generates economic activity, and increases revenues to local state and federal treasuries.
Click to expand...

Refining capacity is obviously more than adequate or we would not be a net exporter of refined oil products, and we ARE net exporters of refined oil products. The more refined oil products Big Oil exports, the higher the price they can charge here.


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## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> I can understand the confusion w/re: to gasoline exports, and I'm not going to pretend to know all the answers.
> But I am aware that it is a compllicated market and that exporting such a product is often necessary in the course of business and industrial practice and the *end result is actually beneficial to the consumer*.


I love it, higher gasoline prices are "beneficial" to the consumer. 
CON$ can rationalize anything!


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## Mr. H.

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand the confusion w/re: to gasoline exports, and I'm not going to pretend to know all the answers.
> But I am aware that it is a compllicated market and that exporting such a product is often necessary in the course of business and industrial practice and the *end result is actually beneficial to the consumer*.
> 
> 
> 
> I love it, higher gasoline prices are "beneficial" to the consumer.
> CON$ can rationalize anything!
Click to expand...


Like I said, it's complicated. Spin it how you want. 
Now tell me some more about Big Ag and their cornflakes?


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## KissMy

Gasoline at the pump here has been $2.97 all month. That is the lowest in over a year. With our enormous debt & money printing I am shocked that prices haven't skyrocketed. What are you bitching about.

We don't export Diesel Fuel & it is $3.97 at the pump. Do you want to pay a dollar more for gasoline or what?


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## Mr. H.

The whole premise of this thread is the perceived contradiction between gasoline exports and retail prices.
Ed made some very ignorant and absurd assertions which were addressed but subsequently ignored.
The OP is an idiot.


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## KissMy

It is called market forces. The same reason hamburger prices go way up in a recession & steak prices go down.


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## edthecynic

KissMy said:


> Gasoline at the pump here has been $2.97 all month. That is the lowest in over a year. With our enormous debt & money printing I am shocked that prices haven't skyrocketed. What are you bitching about.
> 
> *We don't export Diesel Fuel & it is $3.97 at the pump.* Do you want to pay a dollar more for gasoline or what?


Yes we do, mostly to Europe and Latin America

Oil Margins Falling as U.S. Fuel Import Era Ends: Energy Markets

Gasoline "has been going pretty much south of the border to Mexico or  other parts of Latin America," Ashley Smith, a vice president at Valero,  said on a Nov. 1 conference call to discuss* the San Antonio-based  company's fourfold increase in third-quarter net income. "The diesel has  been going split between Europe and Latin America."*


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## KissMy

edthecynic said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gasoline at the pump here has been $2.97 all month. That is the lowest in over a year. With our enormous debt & money printing I am shocked that prices haven't skyrocketed. What are you bitching about.
> 
> *We don't export Diesel Fuel & it is $3.97 at the pump.* Do you want to pay a dollar more for gasoline or what?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we do, mostly to Europe and Latin America
> 
> Oil Margins Falling as U.S. Fuel Import Era Ends: Energy Markets
> 
> Gasoline "has been going pretty much south of the border to Mexico or  other parts of Latin America," Ashley Smith, a vice president at Valero,  said on a Nov. 1 conference call to discuss* the San Antonio-based  company's fourfold increase in third-quarter net income. "The diesel has  been going split between Europe and Latin America."*
Click to expand...

Maybe in the summer but not in the winter. In the summer we use more Gasoline, so Diesel Fuel is the excess by-product that we have to sell off. In the winter it is the exact opposite.


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## sitarro

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, since you admit we have more than ample refining capacity, drilling more oil here will not lower gasoline prices here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just stating a fact. I wouldn't call it "more than ample", but *refining capacity is adequate for meeting domestic fuel demads- up to a point. The net importation of gasoline fills that gap. *
> 
> But as I said, like ag products so goes petroleum. It's a global market.
> BTW- I take back that "small fraction" comment. We are exporting a considerable amount of gasoline. But as you know we are still a net importer.
> 
> Regarding crude- the focus of drilling isn't to bring down prices. It is to produce the commodity here as opposed to importing. It creates jobs, generates economic activity, and increases revenues to local state and federal treasuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Refining capacity is obviously more than adequate or we would not be a net exporter of refined oil products, and we ARE net exporters of refined oil products. The more refined oil products Big Oil exports, the higher the price they can charge here.
Click to expand...


With the millions of unemployed, less fuel is being burned. It wasn't like this at all under President Bush when unemployment percentage were in the 4.5 percentage.


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## edthecynic

sitarro said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just stating a fact. I wouldn't call it "more than ample", but *refining capacity is adequate for meeting domestic fuel demads- up to a point. The net importation of gasoline fills that gap. *
> 
> But as I said, like ag products so goes petroleum. It's a global market.
> BTW- I take back that "small fraction" comment. We are exporting a considerable amount of gasoline. But as you know we are still a net importer.
> 
> Regarding crude- the focus of drilling isn't to bring down prices. It is to produce the commodity here as opposed to importing. It creates jobs, generates economic activity, and increases revenues to local state and federal treasuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Refining capacity is obviously more than adequate or we would not be a net exporter of refined oil products, and we ARE net exporters of refined oil products. The more refined oil products Big Oil exports, the higher the price they can charge here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With the millions of unemployed, less fuel is being burned.* It wasn't like this at all under President Bush* when unemployment percentage were in the 4.5 percentage.
Click to expand...

Exporting Gasoline started under Bush in 2008. Remember the $4.00 Bush gas in 2008?


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## sitarro

edthecynic said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Refining capacity is obviously more than adequate or we would not be a net exporter of refined oil products, and we ARE net exporters of refined oil products. The more refined oil products Big Oil exports, the higher the price they can charge here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the millions of unemployed, less fuel is being burned.* It wasn't like this at all under President Bush* when unemployment percentage were in the 4.5 percentage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exporting Gasoline started under Bush in 2008. Remember the $4.00 Bush gas in 2008?
Click to expand...


Are you saying that gasoline was being exported from this country when it was 4 dollars domestically? Do you have a link for that?


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## edthecynic

sitarro said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the millions of unemployed, less fuel is being burned.* It wasn't like this at all under President Bush* when unemployment percentage were in the 4.5 percentage.
> 
> 
> 
> Exporting Gasoline started under Bush in 2008. Remember the $4.00 Bush gas in 2008?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying that gasoline was being exported from this country when it was 4 dollars domestically? Do you have a link for that?
Click to expand...

See the link in the OP.


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## editec

People screaming "Drill Baby Drill" are damned fools.

They act as thought THEY will own the oil when it is found.

Morons.


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## sitarro

edthecynic said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exporting Gasoline started under Bush in 2008. Remember the $4.00 Bush gas in 2008?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that gasoline was being exported from this country when it was 4 dollars domestically? Do you have a link for that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See the link in the OP.
Click to expand...


I remember 4 dollar gas in 2006-2007, 3 dollar gas in 2008..... Bush's final lame duck year. With a big majority in Congress, the Democrats had control of the country after 2006, with the major media asswipes deep up the democrats ass, Bush had absolutely no control. This was the real beginning of the crap we are in today. Business saw the way a Reid/Pelosi controlled Congress was going to go and basically shut down........ why do they want to help a group that is so antibusiness. The hope and change imbeciles compounded that by letting a no nothing, antibusiness, anti success, pro union asshole buy his way into the Presidency. How anyone that witnessed this jerk spend 730 million special interest dollars to beat a 72 year old that spent 150 million and still not understand what a total ass he is....... there is no hope.........just change for the worse.


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## chikenwing

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, since you admit we have more than ample refining capacity, drilling more oil here will not lower gasoline prices here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just stating a fact. I wouldn't call it "more than ample", but *refining capacity is adequate for meeting domestic fuel demads- up to a point. The net importation of gasoline fills that gap. *
> 
> But as I said, like ag products so goes petroleum. It's a global market.
> BTW- I take back that "small fraction" comment. We are exporting a considerable amount of gasoline. But as you know we are still a net importer.
> 
> Regarding crude- the focus of drilling isn't to bring down prices. It is to produce the commodity here as opposed to importing. It creates jobs, generates economic activity, and increases revenues to local state and federal treasuries.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Refining capacity is obviously more than adequate or we would not be a net exporter of refined oil products, and we ARE net exporters of refined oil products. The more refined oil products Big Oil exports, the higher the price they can charge here.
Click to expand...

 
Well not so fast,wait untill our demand goes back up,along with the worlds economies recovering ,then the capacity will not be so adequate.

Demand is down,its not that hard


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## KissMy

sitarro said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the millions of unemployed, less fuel is being burned.* It wasn't like this at all under President Bush* when unemployment percentage were in the 4.5 percentage.
> 
> 
> 
> Exporting Gasoline started under Bush in 2008. Remember the $4.00 Bush gas in 2008?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you saying that gasoline was being exported from this country when it was 4 dollars domestically? Do you have a link for that?
Click to expand...


It was late in 2008 when gasoline price dropped to $1.60 & demand plumeted due to recession, market crash & end of summer driving season.







*We Still Import Oil*






*Note the Price of Oil is Climbing yet Gasoline Price is Falling*


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## Dabs

All I know, is here in my area, gas is at $3.05.
And it has been slowly going down for the past few weeks......altho, a couple of times it will jump up a penny or two, but then it goes back down again.
This is the lowest I have seen it in ages.......


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## Ringel05

*Why Is Gas So High?*
Hot air rises, try exhaling now and then.


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## Mr. H.

Ringel05 said:


> *Why Is Gas So High?*
> Hot air rises, try exhaling now and then.



I'm trying to reduce my greenhouse gas footprint.
Perhaps if I put my footprint in my mouth...


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## Mr. H.

editec said:


> People screaming "Drill Baby Drill" are damned fools.
> 
> They act as thought THEY will own the oil when it is found.
> 
> Morons.



That's MR. damned fool to you, bub. 
And yes oil produced my non-governmental entities is owned by those entities, Mr. Moron.


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## edthecynic

sitarro said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying that gasoline was being exported from this country when it was 4 dollars domestically? Do you have a link for that?
> 
> 
> 
> See the link in the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I remember 4 dollar gas in 2006-2007, 3 dollar gas in 2008.*.... Bush's final lame duck year. With a big majority in Congress, the Democrats had control of the country after 2006, with the major media asswipes deep up the democrats ass, *Bush had absolutely no control.* This was the real beginning of the crap we are in today. Business saw the way a Reid/Pelosi controlled Congress was going to go and basically shut down........ why do they want to help a group that is so antibusiness. The hope and change imbeciles compounded that by letting a no nothing, antibusiness, anti success, pro union asshole buy his way into the Presidency. How anyone that witnessed this jerk spend 730 million special interest dollars to beat a 72 year old that spent 150 million and still not understand what a total ass he is....... there is no hope.........just change for the worse.
Click to expand...

You "remember" only the revisionist history your MessiahRushie tells you.
Bush had veto power and the GOP had filibuster power which they used in record numbers. The Dems were powerless. Please name one bill that got past the GOP filibusters and Bush's veto pen that was anti-business! The GOP economy collapsed from the inertia of 6 years of CON$ervative stupidity.


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## edthecynic

chikenwing said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just stating a fact. I wouldn't call it "more than ample", but *refining capacity is adequate for meeting domestic fuel demads- up to a point. The net importation of gasoline fills that gap. *
> 
> But as I said, like ag products so goes petroleum. It's a global market.
> BTW- I take back that "small fraction" comment. We are exporting a considerable amount of gasoline. But as you know we are still a net importer.
> 
> Regarding crude- the focus of drilling isn't to bring down prices. It is to produce the commodity here as opposed to importing. It creates jobs, generates economic activity, and increases revenues to local state and federal treasuries.
> 
> 
> 
> Refining capacity is obviously more than adequate or we would not be a net exporter of refined oil products, and we ARE net exporters of refined oil products. The more refined oil products Big Oil exports, the higher the price they can charge here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well not so fast*,wait untill our demand goes back up,*along with the worlds economies recovering ,*then the capacity will not be so adequate.*
> 
> Demand is down,its not that hard
Click to expand...

Only because Big Oil is now shutting down refineries to jack up the prices once demand increases.


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## Ropey

A conspiracy forum thread imo.  

Demand is down because production is down....


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## Mr. H.

edthecynic said:


> Only because Big Oil is now shutting down refineries to jack up the prices once demand increases.



Good lord almighty. Stupidity knows no bounds.


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## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only because Big Oil is now shutting down refineries to jack up the prices once demand increases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good lord almighty. Stupidity knows no bounds.
Click to expand...

ConocoPhillips just closed the 190,000-barrel-a-day Trainer, Pennsylvania,  refinery on Sept. 30, 2011. Sunoco Inc. has begun to shut its 194,000-barrel-a-day plant in Marcus Hook,  Pennsylvania, and plans to close the 355,000-barrel-a-day Philadelphia  refinery by July 2012. And these are just the East Coast closings.


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## Mr. H.

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only because Big Oil is now shutting down refineries to jack up the prices once demand increases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good lord almighty. Stupidity knows no bounds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ConocoPhillips just closed the 190,000-barrel-a-day Trainer, Pennsylvania,  refinery on Sept. 30, 2011. Sunoco Inc. has begun to shut its 194,000-barrel-a-day plant in Marcus Hook,  Pennsylvania, and plans to close the 355,000-barrel-a-day Philadelphia  refinery by July 2012. And these are just the East Coast closings.
Click to expand...


If you made the effort to find those stats, you can dig for the reasons behind the closings.
The real reasons.


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## Mr. H.

Poor margins?

Conoco to sell or shut Pennsylvania refinery | Reuters

ConocoPhillips' Bayway Refinery in Linden one of a dying breed on East Coast | NJ.com

_But Bayway faces a challenge: The crude oil it refines is more expensive than crude oil in other parts of the country, a dynamic that already led to the sale or closure of several East Coast refineries this year_. 

Upgrades and effeciencies of the larger installations?


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## JiggsCasey

Ropey said:


> A conspiracy forum thread imo.
> 
> Demand is down because production is down....



^ this... 

yes, to cornucopians, rising oil price is all a big conspiracy...   a 550% price increase over 12 years has had nothing to do with supply constraints, and is merely the result of artificial suppression of flow rates, keeping the oil in the ground so they can jack the price up. ... you know, by leftists. 

where they all met to get their story straight, and how no one has leaked any of it remains quite the mystery.


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## Dabs

Well....I paid $3.03 per gallon yesterday!


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## peach174

If Congress really wanted to give us tax cuts, they should stop the Federal taxes on Gas.
Instead they want to cut the payroll tax for Seniors.
It's a terrible game of politics, all because each party wants to get reelected.
They really don't care about the American people.


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## rdean

edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.



Don't badmouth oil companies.  Republicans get tired of having to apologize.


----------



## Mr Natural

*Why Is Gas So High? *

Because it can be.


----------



## KissMy

JiggsCasey said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> A conspiracy forum thread imo.
> 
> Demand is down because production is down....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this...
> 
> yes, to cornucopians, rising oil price is all a big conspiracy...   a 550% price increase over 12 years has had nothing to do with supply constraints, and is merely the result of artificial suppression of flow rates, keeping the oil in the ground so they can jack the price up. ... you know, by leftists.
> 
> where they all met to get their story straight, and how no one has leaked any of it remains quite the mystery.
Click to expand...


If you are talking about OIL prices instead of GASOLINE, then politics, fear, terrorism & war have driven supply & oil prices far more than market based supply & demand. If Iran gets attacked oil price will spike by $40. When Osama hit US on 9/11 oil price jumped 30%. When we killed Osama oil price dropped 30%. When Bush opened the OCS to drilling oil price fell over $100. When Obama took office oil price rose $90.


----------



## BluePhantom

rdean said:


> Don't badmouth oil companies.  Republicans get tired of having to apologize.



Oh yeah...let's attack the big bad oil companies.  Anything about the following chart strike you as odd?







CARPE DIEM: Gasoline Taxes Per Gallon Are Almost 7 Times ExxonMobil's Profit: 48 cents vs. 7 cents for QI

Pssst....I will give you a hint:

"_But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No evidence of price gouging here.)

However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?_"

Who is "gouging" Whom at the Pumps?


----------



## rdean

BluePhantom said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't badmouth oil companies.  Republicans get tired of having to apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah...let's attack the big bad oil companies.  Anything about the following chart strike you as odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CARPE DIEM: Gasoline Taxes Per Gallon Are Almost 7 Times ExxonMobil's Profit: 48 cents vs. 7 cents for QI
> 
> Pssst....I will give you a hint:
> 
> "_But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No evidence of price gouging here.)
> 
> However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?_"
> 
> Who is "gouging" Whom at the Pumps?
Click to expand...


Exxon Mobil: Biggest profit in history
The largest U.S. oil company surges past analysts' estimates with a posted net income of $14.83 billion and sets a national record for quarterly profit.

Exxon breaks record for profit, yet again

Once again, Republican apologize to oil companies.


----------



## rdean

Exxon Mobil said Thursday that it makes relatively little money on gasoline, even as it reported a nearly $11 billion quarterly profit.

Exxon pushes back on gas price anger as profits soar - Apr. 28, 2011


----------



## rdean

it's difficult to even comprehend the financial power of Big Oil. BP, Chevron, Shell, Exxon Mobil and Total SA made $76.8 billion in net profits in 2010. This was a $12.4 billion increase from 2009 profits and a nearly 50 percent increase from 2000. Since 2001, the five largest oil companies made nearly $1 trillion in profits. In 2008,* Exxon Mobil posted the largest annual profit in U.S. history.* This was at the same time that the rest of our economy crashed.

Ending Big Oil breaks could save U.S. money

You were saying?


----------



## peach174

BluePhantom said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't badmouth oil companies.  Republicans get tired of having to apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah...let's attack the big bad oil companies.  Anything about the following chart strike you as odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CARPE DIEM: Gasoline Taxes Per Gallon Are Almost 7 Times ExxonMobil's Profit: 48 cents vs. 7 cents for QI
> 
> Pssst....I will give you a hint:
> 
> "_But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No evidence of price gouging here.)
> 
> However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?_"
> 
> Who is "gouging" Whom at the Pumps?
Click to expand...



Exactly the point I was making.
Give the people a real tax break.
Drop the Feds taxes on Gas. For a year or two
Instead they are robbing the Seniors in SSI and Medicare for the last year and now another 2 months or full year.
Dem's are throwing grandma over the cliff
But Repubs are not even making this point or even suggesting that this could be done.
No it's cut the peoples program funding, but never the Governments income.


----------



## Big Fitz

Mr. H. said:


> I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket.
> 
> Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market.
> We're part of the globe.


We're only part of the globe when it makes a convenient point for the loony left.


----------



## Big Fitz

BluePhantom said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't badmouth oil companies.  Republicans get tired of having to apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah...let's attack the big bad oil companies.  Anything about the following chart strike you as odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CARPE DIEM: Gasoline Taxes Per Gallon Are Almost 7 Times ExxonMobil's Profit: 48 cents vs. 7 cents for QI
> 
> Pssst....I will give you a hint:
> 
> "_But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No evidence of price gouging here.)
> 
> However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?_"
> 
> Who is "gouging" Whom at the Pumps?
Click to expand...

but but but... capitalism is evil!  Government is the font of all that is good in the world!


----------



## rdean

Big Fitz said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket.
> 
> Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market.
> We're part of the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> We're only part of the globe when it makes a convenient point for the loony left.
Click to expand...


So we're not part of the globe?


----------



## rdean

peach174 said:


> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't badmouth oil companies.  Republicans get tired of having to apologize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah...let's attack the big bad oil companies.  Anything about the following chart strike you as odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CARPE DIEM: Gasoline Taxes Per Gallon Are Almost 7 Times ExxonMobil's Profit: 48 cents vs. 7 cents for QI
> 
> Pssst....I will give you a hint:
> 
> "_But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No evidence of price gouging here.)
> 
> However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?_"
> 
> Who is "gouging" Whom at the Pumps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly the point I was making.
> Give the people a real tax break.
> Drop the Feds taxes on Gas. For a year or two
> Instead they are robbing the Seniors in SSI and Medicare for the last year and now another 2 months or full year.
> Dem's are throwing grandma over the cliff
> But Repubs are not even making this point or even suggesting that this could be done.
> No it's cut the peoples program funding, but never the Governments income.
Click to expand...


You write like you think if you reduce taxes, oil companies will reduce the price of gas.  Why would you think that?


----------



## Big Fitz

rdean said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket.
> 
> Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market.
> We're part of the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> We're only part of the globe when it makes a convenient point for the loony left.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we're not part of the globe?
Click to expand...

Never said we weren't.  The left only gives a shit about being 'part of the globe' when it seems to provide a political advantage to them.  Otherwise, everything happens in the vacuum of their desired situation unaffected by anything else.  Other members of the idiot left class constantly remind us of the 'global oil market' in an effort to minimize our contributions to OVERALL SUPPLY as a depressing force to global oil prices.  But when it suits them, they flip the case and pretend we're isolated.  So it does not matter whether or not Exxon exports or not it's oil or gasoline, it's still in the global market and the more production they do, the more they depress overall prices.


----------



## Big Fitz

rdean said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah...let's attack the big bad oil companies.  Anything about the following chart strike you as odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CARPE DIEM: Gasoline Taxes Per Gallon Are Almost 7 Times ExxonMobil's Profit: 48 cents vs. 7 cents for QI
> 
> Pssst....I will give you a hint:
> 
> "_But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No evidence of price gouging here.)
> 
> However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?_"
> 
> Who is "gouging" Whom at the Pumps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly the point I was making.
> Give the people a real tax break.
> Drop the Feds taxes on Gas. For a year or two
> Instead they are robbing the Seniors in SSI and Medicare for the last year and now another 2 months or full year.
> Dem's are throwing grandma over the cliff
> But Repubs are not even making this point or even suggesting that this could be done.
> No it's cut the peoples program funding, but never the Governments income.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You write like you think if you reduce taxes, oil companies will reduce the price of gas.  Why would you think that?
Click to expand...

No, if you reduce gas taxes, you reduce the cost of gas.  You can make up for it by starting to license and charge bicycle riders for the use of the roads they currently enjoy for free at the expense of car owners/users.

If you want oil companies to reduce price, you will then decrease government interference and regulation decreasing the cost of production, exploration and everything else they do to make the product.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

I bought gas for $2.92 this morning.


----------



## Big Fitz

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> I bought gas for $2.92 this morning.


I pay $3.44.  Don't make me beat you.


----------



## peach174

rdean said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BluePhantom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah...let's attack the big bad oil companies.  Anything about the following chart strike you as odd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CARPE DIEM: Gasoline Taxes Per Gallon Are Almost 7 Times ExxonMobil's Profit: 48 cents vs. 7 cents for QI
> 
> Pssst....I will give you a hint:
> 
> "_But the fact is, the gross profit margin for a gallon of gas in America today, is what it has always been, on average, .08 cents per gallon, (2.5% at $3.00 per gallon). Though retail gas prices fluctuate with crude prices and supply vs. demand, the gross profit margin per gallon remains roughly the same at all times. (No evidence of price gouging here.)
> 
> However the federal government profits approximately .59 cents per gallon through gasoline taxes, 7 ½ times or 750% that of the oil producers themselves and 20% of the price at the pumps. Pay attention here, Washington liberals are attacking oil companies for their 2.5% gross profit margin, while Washington is profiting 20% per gallon. Democrats answer? Tax some more?_"
> 
> Who is "gouging" Whom at the Pumps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly the point I was making.
> Give the people a real tax break.
> Drop the Feds taxes on Gas. For a year or two
> Instead they are robbing the Seniors in SSI and Medicare for the last year and now another 2 months or full year.
> Dem's are throwing grandma over the cliff
> But Repubs are not even making this point or even suggesting that this could be done.
> No it's cut the peoples program funding, but never the Governments income.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You write like you think if you reduce taxes, oil companies will reduce the price of gas.  Why would you think that?
Click to expand...


I never said that nor did I even imply it.
I am talking about tax cuts period.


----------



## BluePhantom

rdean said:


> Exxon Mobil said Thursday that it makes relatively little money on gasoline, even as it reported a nearly $11 billion quarterly profit.
> 
> Exxon pushes back on gas price anger as profits soar - Apr. 28, 2011



When did I make the argument that oil companies did not make a profit?  When you sell almost 400 million gallons of gasoline a day, even at a $0.07 or $0.08 profit you are going to score some serious jack.  But now take that profit the oil companies made and multiply it by seven and that's how much profit the government made.  So the point is if you are going to bitch and whine about the greedy oil companies, _*you damn well better bitch like hell*_ about the greedy government.


----------



## Mr. H.

From May, 2011:

Oil Industry Profit Margin Ranks #114 Out 215

It takes money to make money. Go piss  up some other industry's leg.


----------



## BluePhantom

rdean said:


> Exxon Mobil said Thursday that it makes relatively little money on gasoline, even as it reported a nearly $11 billion quarterly profit.
> 
> Exxon pushes back on gas price anger as profits soar - Apr. 28, 2011



You know, it's shit like this which is why you are getting so much attention as liberal dumbfuck of the year.  Volume, rdean....volume.   

"_*In 2010, the United States consumed about 138.6 billion gallons* (or 3.3 billion barrels) *of gasoline*, a daily average of about 379.7 million gallons (9 million barrels)_. "


How much gasoline does the United States consume per year? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)


That's just in the United States.  Now get rid of the oil company's $0.07 profit (so that they make absolutely no money at all) and confuckingratulations....you have just decreased the price of a gallon of gas from $3.50 a gallon to $3.43 a gallon.  Well yippie fucking skippy.  With savings like that over the course of a year I might be able to go to a movie.....alone.


----------



## rdean

Big Fitz said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly the point I was making.
> Give the people a real tax break.
> Drop the Feds taxes on Gas. For a year or two
> Instead they are robbing the Seniors in SSI and Medicare for the last year and now another 2 months or full year.
> Dem's are throwing grandma over the cliff
> But Repubs are not even making this point or even suggesting that this could be done.
> No it's cut the peoples program funding, but never the Governments income.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You write like you think if you reduce taxes, oil companies will reduce the price of gas.  Why would you think that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, if you reduce gas taxes, you reduce the cost of gas.  You can make up for it by starting to license and charge bicycle riders for the use of the roads they currently enjoy for free at the expense of car owners/users.
> 
> If you want oil companies to reduce price, you will then decrease government interference and regulation decreasing the cost of production, exploration and everything else they do to make the product.
Click to expand...


So, in your estimation, how many more birth defects are "acceptable"?


----------



## JiggsCasey

KissMy said:


> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> 
> A conspiracy forum thread imo.
> 
> Demand is down because production is down....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this...
> 
> yes, to cornucopians, rising oil price is all a big conspiracy...   a 550% price increase over 12 years has had nothing to do with supply constraints, and is merely the result of artificial suppression of flow rates, keeping the oil in the ground so they can jack the price up. ... you know, by leftists.
> 
> where they all met to get their story straight, and how no one has leaked any of it remains quite the mystery.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are talking about OIL prices instead of GASOLINE, then politics, fear, terrorism & war have driven supply & oil prices far more than market based supply & demand. If Iran gets attacked oil price will spike by $40. When Osama hit US on 9/11 oil price jumped 30%. When we killed Osama oil price dropped 30%. When Bush opened the OCS to drilling oil price fell over $100. When Obama took office oil price rose $90.
Click to expand...


Those are all short-term fluctuations. Read my post again, slower. I mentioned a 550% increase over 12 years. Over a span that long, such a trend has to do with nothing OTHER than supply constraints, as confirmed by the VP of Saudi-Aramco, and countless others in the industry.

You're still not accounting for how/why all those entities admit we are at peak. Or, if you prefer, you're still not accounting for the fact that C+C flow rates have barely moved in 6 years. Saying "we don't need to because of (more expensive) alternative A, B and C" isn't the correct answer.


----------



## BluePhantom

rdean said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> You write like you think if you reduce taxes, oil companies will reduce the price of gas.  Why would you think that?
> 
> 
> 
> No, if you reduce gas taxes, you reduce the cost of gas.  You can make up for it by starting to license and charge bicycle riders for the use of the roads they currently enjoy for free at the expense of car owners/users.
> 
> If you want oil companies to reduce price, you will then decrease government interference and regulation decreasing the cost of production, exploration and everything else they do to make the product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, in your estimation, how many more birth defects are "acceptable"?
Click to expand...


Why am I not lying here in complete amazement that you chose to address this but completely ignored this:



> "In 2010, the United States consumed about 138.6 billion gallons (or 3.3 billion barrels) of gasoline, a daily average of about 379.7 million gallons (9 million barrels). "
> 
> That's just in the United States. Now get rid of the oil company's $0.07 profit (so that they make absolutely no money at all) and confuckingratulations....you have just decreased the price of a gallon of gas from $3.50 a gallon to $3.43 a gallon. Well yippie fucking skippy. With savings like that over the course of a year I might be able to go to a movie.....alone.



I will tell you why.....'cause you don't have an answer and if you ignore it you hope it will just go away.  You're a hack rdean.


----------



## Big Fitz

rdean said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> You write like you think if you reduce taxes, oil companies will reduce the price of gas.  Why would you think that?
> 
> 
> 
> No, if you reduce gas taxes, you reduce the cost of gas.  You can make up for it by starting to license and charge bicycle riders for the use of the roads they currently enjoy for free at the expense of car owners/users.
> 
> If you want oil companies to reduce price, you will then decrease government interference and regulation decreasing the cost of production, exploration and everything else they do to make the product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, in your estimation, how many more birth defects are "acceptable"?
Click to expand...

When'd you stop fucking your best friend's son?

Is that non-sequiter enough for you, Hairnet?

Way to ignore getting your ass handed to you...again.


----------



## KissMy

JiggsCasey said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this...
> 
> yes, to cornucopians, rising oil price is all a big conspiracy...   a 550% price increase over 12 years has had nothing to do with supply constraints, and is merely the result of artificial suppression of flow rates, keeping the oil in the ground so they can jack the price up. ... you know, by leftists.
> 
> where they all met to get their story straight, and how no one has leaked any of it remains quite the mystery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are talking about OIL prices instead of GASOLINE, then politics, fear, terrorism & war have driven supply & oil prices far more than market based supply & demand. If Iran gets attacked oil price will spike by $40. When Osama hit US on 9/11 oil price jumped 30%. When we killed Osama oil price dropped 30%. When Bush opened the OCS to drilling oil price fell over $100. When Obama took office oil price rose $90.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those are all short-term fluctuations. Read my post again, slower. I mentioned a 550% increase over 12 years. Over a span that long, such a trend has to do with nothing OTHER than supply constraints, as confirmed by the VP of Saudi-Aramco, and countless others in the industry.
> 
> You're still not accounting for how/why all those entities admit we are at peak. Or, if you prefer, you're still not accounting for the fact that C+C flow rates have barely moved in 6 years. Saying "we don't need to because of (more expensive) alternative A, B and C" isn't the correct answer.
Click to expand...


Saudi just hit a new crude oil production record despite political rhetoric from the VP of Saudi-Aramco said, or the Wiki Leaks US Embassy letter on Saudi Oil reserves. Politics limits production flow rates, not geology. 1/3rd of the worlds oil supply travels through the Strait of Hormuz. Every time oil prices drops to far Iran saber rattles to get the price back to where it wants it.


----------



## JiggsCasey

KissMy said:


> Saudi just hit a new crude oil production record despite political rhetoric from the VP of Saudi-Aramco said, or the Wiki Leaks US Embassy letter on Saudi Oil reserves. Politics limits production flow rates, not geology. 1/3rd of the worlds oil supply travels through the Strait of Hormuz. Every time oil prices drops to far Iran saber rattles to get the price back to where it wants it.



Provide a link to exactly what you think you're saying here. Even if true, all you've done is suggest Saudi can suck the straw a little harder for a little while. You've done nothing to change the volume of liquid in the glass.

Further, you didn't attempt to dispute anything in the post of mine you quoted.

You can pretend it's all political all you like. Unfortunately, the geological data tells the far more relevant and accurate story regarding the longterm price surge. Sorry.


----------



## Mr. H.

Jiggs, shut the fuck up already. Incessant anal retentive microinspective analytical bullshit.


----------



## JiggsCasey

Mr. H. said:


> Jiggs, shut the fuck up already. Incessant anal retentive microinspective analytical bullshit.



Translation: "I have no answer for any of what you challenged us with. ... so I'll just continue to speak cornucopian."

LOL. pwned.

Get out of the energy forum if you can't understand the subject material being put to you. Simple really.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Because we don't control the supply, peak production has passed and it is no longer bought and sold as a commodity but traded as investment vehicles by people who can only make money by selling it higher than they bought it.


----------



## KissMy

2011 World oil production sets another new record. We even attacked Libya stopping their production. OPEC even cut their 2011 production to keep prices high in the face of the global recession. There is still no geologically restrictive "Peak Oil". You "Peak Oil" doomers have yet again been thrown on the huge pile of false peak oil prophets. You currently are not, nor have you ever been credible.


----------



## KissMy

JiggsCasey said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi just hit a new crude oil production record despite political rhetoric from the VP of Saudi-Aramco said, or the Wiki Leaks US Embassy letter on Saudi Oil reserves. Politics limits production flow rates, not geology. 1/3rd of the worlds oil supply travels through the Strait of Hormuz. Every time oil prices drops to far Iran saber rattles to get the price back to where it wants it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Provide a link to exactly what you think you're saying here. Even if true, all you've done is suggest Saudi can suck the straw a little harder for a little while. You've done nothing to change the volume of liquid in the glass.
> 
> Further, you didn't attempt to dispute anything in the post of mine you quoted.
> 
> You can pretend it's all political all you like. Unfortunately, the geological data tells the far more relevant and accurate story regarding the longterm price surge. Sorry.
Click to expand...


Saudi is bringing 2 entirely new oil fields on-line. Just one of these new oil fields contains more oil than the entire USA. Saudi Aramco is using the USA's horizontal drilling techniques that now allow them to extract 10 times more oil from their oil reservoirs & formations than they ever could before. They & the rest of the world will not peak in oil production for many, many years. Likely 50 years or more according to Saudi Aramco's Ali Al Naimi.






[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP6DhKGDzek&feature=fvwrel"]The Oil Kingdom: Part One[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1t4ue-WmlU&NR=1&feature=fvwp"]The Oil Kingdom: Part Two[/ame]


----------



## peach174

rdean said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rdean said:
> 
> 
> 
> You write like you think if you reduce taxes, oil companies will reduce the price of gas.  Why would you think that?
> 
> 
> 
> No, if you reduce gas taxes, you reduce the cost of gas.  You can make up for it by starting to license and charge bicycle riders for the use of the roads they currently enjoy for free at the expense of car owners/users.
> 
> If you want oil companies to reduce price, you will then decrease government interference and regulation decreasing the cost of production, exploration and everything else they do to make the product.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, in your estimation, how many more birth defects are "acceptable"?
Click to expand...


What is dropping 48.1 cents per gallon in Feds gas tax got to do with the regulations? Nothing that's what. redean
It has nothing to do with the price that the companies charge.


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> I mentioned a 550% increase over 12 years. Over a span that long, such a trend has to do with nothing OTHER than supply constraints, as confirmed by the VP of Saudi-Aramco, and countless others in the industry.



Rereading faulty conclusions based on speculative misconceptions and sheer ignorance of facts doesn't help. The price of crude is currently cheaper than it was circa 1979 or so. So stop pretending that it is only short term fluctuations matter when in fact nothing has fundamentally changed in 30+ years, me using real prices across a longer time span than a parrot can remember, let alone recite correctly.



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> You're still not accounting for how/why all those entities admit we are at peak.



We've been through so many peaks they aren't even worth counting, let alone blaming current prices on. Come up with a better religious belief system than peak oil already, economics already has you beat six ways from Sunday on this topic. Or, parrot someone who actually knows something on the topic and leave your religion out of it.



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> Or, if you prefer, you're still not accounting for the fact that C+C flow rates have barely moved in 6 years. Saying "we don't need to because of (more expensive) alternative A, B and C" isn't the correct answer.



For the parrots of the world, let us all behold (yet another) peak oil!!! Makes about the 3rd one this decade, if I am counting my bumps correctly. Up-Up-And Away! Again!


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> Get out of the energy forum if you can't understand the subject material being put to you. Simple really.



Oh the irony in this statement is just too much. Jiggsy, you have outdone your normal ignorance with this one. Dear Lord PLEASE, I don't mind discussing religious beliefs with halfwits, but I would like one with an actual half a wit. Can you fetch us one? Are the church pews really that lean nowadays?


----------



## Dabs

Y'all go right ahead and continue fussy wussy-ing amongst yourselves........meanwhile, here in my area, at Raceway, gas is at $3.02 per gallon...right now.
Wal-Mart is at $3.02.......and most other stations are about $3.05 to $3.09.


----------



## KissMy

It's been $2.96 here at most stations for the last couple of weeks. Sam's & Costco are $2.92 & one station is $2.91


----------



## Mr. H.

which translates to $2.50 when you consider the taxes.
$2.50 adjusted for inflation is what?
Cheap gas.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

KissMy said:


> 2011 World oil production sets another new record. We even attacked Libya stopping their production. OPEC even cut their 2011 production to keep prices high in the face of the global recession. There is still no geologically restrictive "Peak Oil". You "Peak Oil" doomers have yet again been thrown on the huge pile of false peak oil prophets. You currently are not, nor have you ever been credible.



Sigh..."peak production" is not just the number of units produced.
It is not that simple. 
It also factors in demand vs. production capacity, cost of extraction and processing vs. price paid at the pump. As well as technology to get at oil that is far below the surface.
Post peak production basically means "the good ole' days" are gone. As in cheap oil. That occured in the late 70's. Today demand is faaaaaaaaar greater than before, the easy surface oil is gone...now we have to dig much deeper and off shore - which cost a helluva lot more than before.
Thus - we will never see cheap prices at the pump - ever.


----------



## PrometheusBound

The free market means that those who control the market are free to do anything they want.  Gasoline costs 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela.  That's all it's worth.  The oil companies piggyback off OPEC's price-gouging, which they set up in the first place in order to blame the foreigners for this power-freak thievery.


----------



## Big Fitz

PrometheusBound said:


> The free market means that those who control the market are free to do anything they want.  Gasoline costs 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela.  That's all it's worth.  The oil companies piggyback off OPEC's price-gouging, which they set up in the first place in order to blame the foreigners for this power-freak thievery.


Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.

If nobody will buy gasoline at 13 cents a gallon in Venezuela, it will sit there till it becomes 12 cents.  I do find this claim slightly dubious as well as I've heard it rumored to be true but also that Venezuela has a communist economy, meaning the price is set by government and then rationed.  So, does this supposed price really match reality?


----------



## Big Fitz

iamwhatiseem said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2011 World oil production sets another new record. We even attacked Libya stopping their production. OPEC even cut their 2011 production to keep prices high in the face of the global recession. There is still no geologically restrictive "Peak Oil". You "Peak Oil" doomers have yet again been thrown on the huge pile of false peak oil prophets. You currently are not, nor have you ever been credible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh..."peak production" is not just the number of units produced.
> It is not that simple.
> It also factors in demand vs. production capacity, cost of extraction and processing vs. price paid at the pump. As well as technology to get at oil that is far below the surface.
> Post peak production basically means "the good ole' days" are gone. As in cheap oil. That occured in the late 70's. Today demand is faaaaaaaaar greater than before, the easy surface oil is gone...now we have to dig much deeper and off shore - which cost a helluva lot more than before.
> Thus - we will never see cheap prices at the pump - ever.
Click to expand...

If we ban production of oil, production will have peaked at the point the ban goes into effect.  Does this mean the world ran out of oil?  No.  It means we stopped production and forbade future production.

That is what most peaks are caused by in the world at this time.  Wells may go dry, but we always discover new sources.  But of course, those aren't "REAL" oil reserves because they are from harder to reach or refine sources.  Whatever.  The "No True Scotsman" defense goes on.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Big Fitz said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> The free market means that those who control the market are free to do anything they want.  Gasoline costs 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela.  That's all it's worth.  The oil companies piggyback off OPEC's price-gouging, which they set up in the first place in order to blame the foreigners for this power-freak thievery.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.
> 
> If nobody will buy gasoline at 13 cents a gallon in Venezuela, it will sit there till it becomes 12 cents.  I do find this claim slightly dubious as well as I've heard it rumored to be true but also that Venezuela has a communist economy, meaning the price is set by government and then rationed.  So, does this supposed price really match reality?
Click to expand...

If oil were worth anywhere near what the monopolist gougers charge, Venezuela would go bankrupt by selling it at cost, even to their limited population.  Why believe the oil companies, who collaborate with OPEC's "combination in restraint of trade"?  I think crude is worth far less than what the drillers charge the sellers.  The price was about a dollar a barrel in 1969 and, despite their claims that all the cheaply drilled oil has been used up, how can this be likely with a monopoly and its greedhead collaborators?


----------



## Big Fitz

PrometheusBound said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> The free market means that those who control the market are free to do anything they want.  Gasoline costs 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela.  That's all it's worth.  The oil companies piggyback off OPEC's price-gouging, which they set up in the first place in order to blame the foreigners for this power-freak thievery.
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.
> 
> If nobody will buy gasoline at 13 cents a gallon in Venezuela, it will sit there till it becomes 12 cents.  I do find this claim slightly dubious as well as I've heard it rumored to be true but also that Venezuela has a communist economy, meaning the price is set by government and then rationed.  So, does this supposed price really match reality?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If oil were worth anywhere near what the monopolist gougers charge, Venezuela would go bankrupt by selling it at cost, even to their limited population.  Why believe the oil companies, who collaborate with OPEC's "combination in restraint of trade"?  I think crude is worth far less than what the drillers charge the sellers.  The price was about a dollar a barrel in 1969 and, despite their claims that all the cheaply drilled oil has been used up, how can this be likely with a monopoly and its greedhead collaborators?
Click to expand...

Well thanks for exposing your bias.

Did you complain that the consumer was getting too good a deal in 1990 whn the price of crude plummeted and we were paying only 91 cents a gallon?  Where were you saying the greedy consumer is taking advantage of the poor refiners and drillers?

Like the rest of us consumers, you were probably dancing in the streets if you were around and not just a glint in the mailman's eye.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Big Fitz said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.
> 
> If nobody will buy gasoline at 13 cents a gallon in Venezuela, it will sit there till it becomes 12 cents.  I do find this claim slightly dubious as well as I've heard it rumored to be true but also that Venezuela has a communist economy, meaning the price is set by government and then rationed.  So, does this supposed price really match reality?
> 
> 
> 
> If oil were worth anywhere near what the monopolist gougers charge, Venezuela would go bankrupt by selling it at cost, even to their limited population.  Why believe the oil companies, who collaborate with OPEC's "combination in restraint of trade"?  I think crude is worth far less than what the drillers charge the sellers.  The price was about a dollar a barrel in 1969 and, despite their claims that all the cheaply drilled oil has been used up, how can this be likely with a monopoly and its greedhead collaborators?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well thanks for exposing your bias.
> 
> Did you complain that the consumer was getting too good a deal in 1990 whn the price of crude plummeted and we were paying only 91 cents a gallon?  Where were you saying the greedy consumer is taking advantage of the poor refiners and drillers?
> 
> Like the rest of us consumers, you were probably dancing in the streets if you were around and not just a glint in the mailman's eye.
Click to expand...


The consumer is almost helpless in this private economic dictatorship.  It takes a lot of imagination to call it a "free market."  The force imposed by those with economic power is usually the only market force.
Your dizzy spin-job about who should be attacked is like saying "You were glad when the thief got his freedom taken away, why weren't you glad when the victim got his property taken away?"


----------



## RGR

iamwhatiseem said:


> Post peak production basically means "the good ole' days" are gone. As in cheap oil. That occured in the late 70's.



Early 70's, actually. There was a global peak oil in 1979, and higher real crude prices than we have today. Many people have grown up AFTER those good old days ended, me, maybe you, every younger than 45-50 years old anyway.



			
				iamwhatiseem said:
			
		

> Today demand is faaaaaaaaar greater than before, the easy surface oil is gone...now we have to dig much deeper and off shore - which cost a helluva lot more than before.
> Thus - we will never see cheap prices at the pump - ever.



Well, "easy surface oil" actually was mostly gone before 1900, it required an entirely new drilling technology (starting in 1901) to go beyond that type of oil. By my measure, we're in about the 4th or 5th generation of "harder than the last time" oil, based on the technologies required to get at the tougher and tougher oils.

As far as "cheap", that is a relative measure. Back in the 70's when prices skyrocketed to $1/gal, that hit my budget like a hammerblow. Nowadays, $3/gal isn't all that much to power even a gas hog like a Corvette, which gets much better mileage nowadays than it used to, almost enough better to make up for the nominal increased gasoline prices anyway. So what is cheap?


----------



## PrometheusBound

RGR said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post peak production basically means "the good ole' days" are gone. As in cheap oil. That occured in the late 70's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Early 70's, actually. There was a global peak oil in 1979, and higher real crude prices than we have today. Many people have grown up AFTER those good old days ended, me, maybe you, every younger than 45-50 years old anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today demand is faaaaaaaaar greater than before, the easy surface oil is gone...now we have to dig much deeper and off shore - which cost a helluva lot more than before.
> Thus - we will never see cheap prices at the pump - ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, "easy surface oil" actually was mostly gone before 1900, it required an entirely new drilling technology (starting in 1901) to go beyond that type of oil. By my measure, we're in about the 4th or 5th generation of "harder than the last time" oil, based on the technologies required to get at the tougher and tougher oils.
> 
> As far as "cheap", that is a relative measure. Back in the 70's when prices skyrocketed to $1/gal, that hit my budget like a hammerblow. Nowadays, $3/gal isn't all that much to power even a gas hog like a Corvette, which gets much better mileage nowadays than it used to, almost enough better to make up for the nominal increased gasoline prices anyway. So what is cheap?
Click to expand...


Cheap is a reasonable profit over costs.  Since Big Oil controls the supply, they can force unreasonable profit margins on us.  Only those who want to turn us into a nation of pushovers and patsies would answer, "Well, don't drive so much then!"

The oil dictators know they are slimey, price-gouging crooks.  They charge 1,000% over what is reasonable but when the head of Occidental Oil had to buy oil from the other greedheads in order to make up for for a sunken tanker, he said, "Sell me some of yours; I'll pay a reasonable profit of 10%"!


----------



## KissMy

Diesel Fuel is now almost as low as Gasoline. What gives? This is suppose to be the high time of year for Diesel Fuel.


----------



## naomibee

Gas is cheap here too.but i herd its going up again..this would be the time to fill all you're containers.


----------



## RGR

PrometheusBound said:


> Cheap is a reasonable profit over costs.  Since Big Oil controls the supply, they can force unreasonable profit margins on us.  Only those who want to turn us into a nation of pushovers and patsies would answer, "Well, don't drive so much then!"



Certainly cheap isn't usually defined in relation to cost. And dissing the demand side of the supply/demand equation ignores how well it works when it comes to making something "cheap".


----------



## rdean

Gas is the USA's number one export.  We have plenty of gas.


----------



## HUGGY

edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.



This post is excellent and as relevant to Americans prosperity as anything posted here in the last 12 months.  Thank you.


----------



## Mr. H.

HUGGY said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This post is excellent and as relevant to Americans prosperity as anything posted here in the last 12 months.  Thank you.
Click to expand...


If the U.S. is "awash" in gasoline, why are we importing millions of gallons daily?

You are both totally off the mark here. We are currently a _net exporter_ of ALL refined products. Mostly diesel, middle distillates, and bunker fuels. 

And I challenge you both to please explain to me what is so correct and acceptable about exporting millions of metric tons of grain each year while we are paying record prices for our groceries. 

And what the fuck is the deal with ethanol? 40% of our corn crop is diverted to ethanol production. We are making so much ethanol in this country that 20% of total ETOH production is exported!

Honestly, your ignorance astounds me.


----------



## HUGGY

Mr. H. said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This post is excellent and as relevant to Americans prosperity as anything posted here in the last 12 months.  Thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If the U.S. is "awash" in gasoline,* why are we importing millions of gallons daily?
> 
> You are both totally off the mark here. We are currently a _net exporter_ of ALL refined products. Mostly diesel, middle distillates, and bunker fuels.
> 
> And I challenge you both to please explain to me what is so correct and acceptable about exporting millions of metric tons of grain each year while we are paying record prices for our groceries.
> 
> And what the fuck is the deal with ethanol? 40% of our corn crop is diverted to ethanol production. We are making so much ethanol in this country that 20% of total ETOH production is exported!
> 
> Honestly, your ignorance astounds me.
Click to expand...


What does my ignorance, which I totally agree with, have to do with anything in your above post?  

You should get off that fairy tale about U S oil and commodity Corporations acting in the best interests of the citizens of the United States.  

IMHO Corps that conduct commerce adverse to the interests of the American public should be bared from doing business here and in some blatant cases have their assets confiscated as penalty for damages.


----------



## JWBooth

In large part because money is worth so little.


----------



## editec

The price of GAS has nothing whatever to do with what is good for America.

The corporations that control the industry would sell every drop of gas offshore if the market made that the most profitable thing to do.

Those are not AMERICAN companies, they are private corporations whose only mission is to make money,

This is apparently something most of you forget when you talk about OUR gas, OUR oil, etc.


----------



## PrometheusBound

RGR said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap is a reasonable profit over costs.  Since Big Oil controls the supply, they can force unreasonable profit margins on us.  Only those who want to turn us into a nation of pushovers and patsies would answer, "Well, don't drive so much then!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly cheap isn't usually defined in relation to cost. And dissing the demand side of the supply/demand equation ignores how well it works when it comes to making something "cheap".
Click to expand...


If they owned our water and gouged us, would you say it's our fault for not decreasing our demand for water?  The farmers do own our food, so why don't they act like the greedhead oiler slime and demand what we'd pay if forced to in order to avoid starvation?


----------



## Middleoftheroad

Mr. H. said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This post is excellent and as relevant to Americans prosperity as anything posted here in the last 12 months.  Thank you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If the U.S. is "awash" in gasoline, why are we importing millions of gallons daily?
> 
> You are both totally off the mark here. We are currently a _net exporter_ of ALL refined products. Mostly diesel, middle distillates, and bunker fuels.
> 
> And I challenge you both to please explain to me what is so correct and acceptable about exporting millions of metric tons of grain each year while we are paying record prices for our groceries.
> 
> And what the fuck is the deal with ethanol? 40% of our corn crop is diverted to ethanol production. We are making so much ethanol in this country that 20% of total ETOH production is exported!
> 
> Honestly, your ignorance astounds me.
Click to expand...


The reason you are confused is because you are not reading the links.  The US is *NOT* importing gasoline.  It is importing oil.  There is a difference.


----------



## Middleoftheroad

editec said:


> The price of GAS has nothing whatever to do with what is good for America.
> 
> The corporations that control the industry would sell every drop of gas offshore if the market made that the most profitable thing to do.
> 
> Those are not AMERICAN companies, they are private corporations whose only mission is to make money,
> 
> This is apparently something most of you forget when you talk about OUR gas, OUR oil, etc.



This is actually how it works.


----------



## Mr. H.

Middleoftheroad said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> This post is excellent and as relevant to Americans prosperity as anything posted here in the last 12 months.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the U.S. is "awash" in gasoline, why are we importing millions of gallons daily?
> 
> You are both totally off the mark here. We are currently a _net exporter_ of ALL refined products. Mostly diesel, middle distillates, and bunker fuels.
> 
> And I challenge you both to please explain to me what is so correct and acceptable about exporting millions of metric tons of grain each year while we are paying record prices for our groceries.
> 
> And what the fuck is the deal with ethanol? 40% of our corn crop is diverted to ethanol production. We are making so much ethanol in this country that 20% of total ETOH production is exported!
> 
> Honestly, your ignorance astounds me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The reason you are confused is because you are not reading the links.  The US is *NOT* importing gasoline.  It is importing oil.  There is a difference.
Click to expand...


Either the Energy Information Administration is lying, or you're seriously misinformed.
Looks to me like we import a half million barrels per day of gasoline. 

I've posted this before. Maybe you're the one not reading the links...

Weekly U.S. Imports of Total Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)


----------



## rdean

Since gas is the USA's number one export, finding more won't bring the price down.  It will only deplete our resources and give oil companies the ability to make even more money.

How come Republicans can't understand this simple fact?  It's their policies that made this possible.  Anything else would be "socialism".  The truth is "right there".


----------



## Mr. H.

rdean said:


> Since gas is the USA's number one export, finding more won't bring the price down.  It will only deplete our resources and give oil companies the ability to make even more money.
> 
> How come Republicans can't understand this simple fact?  It's their policies that made this possible.  Anything else would be "socialism".  The truth is "right there".



What costs less per gallon?

200 million barrels of gasoline based on $100/barrel crude oil or...

500 million barrels of gasoline based on $100/barrel crude oil.

Current average gasoline stocks in the U.S. are around 200 million barrels. 

From the EIA:

This Week In Petroleum Gasoline Section

If we didn't export gasoline, stocks would grow to 500 milllion barrels and beyond. 

Why is the agriculture industry allowed to export grains?
Why are we paying record prices for our groceries?


----------



## Middleoftheroad

Mr. H. said:


> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the U.S. is "awash" in gasoline, why are we importing millions of gallons daily?
> 
> You are both totally off the mark here. We are currently a _net exporter_ of ALL refined products. Mostly diesel, middle distillates, and bunker fuels.
> 
> And I challenge you both to please explain to me what is so correct and acceptable about exporting millions of metric tons of grain each year while we are paying record prices for our groceries.
> 
> And what the fuck is the deal with ethanol? 40% of our corn crop is diverted to ethanol production. We are making so much ethanol in this country that 20% of total ETOH production is exported!
> 
> Honestly, your ignorance astounds me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you are confused is because you are not reading the links.  The US is *NOT* importing gasoline.  It is importing oil.  There is a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either the Energy Information Administration is lying, or you're seriously misinformed.
> Looks to me like we import a half million barrels per day of gasoline.
> 
> I've posted this before. Maybe you're the one not reading the links...
> 
> Weekly U.S. Imports of Total Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Click to expand...


This is not a graph of net import/export.  It is just a chart of how much total gasoline we import.  I've searched the EIA and this was the best I could come up with.
U.S. Imports & Exports
Unfortunetly it doesn't compare total gasoline import vs total gasoline export, but it does show one obvious point
Import    (by week)
 Finished Motor Gasoline      43 80 111 81 126 32 

Export    (by week)
 Finished Motor Gasoline     529 529 523 523 523 523


----------



## Mr. H.

Middleoftheroad said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you are confused is because you are not reading the links.  The US is *NOT* importing gasoline.  It is importing oil.  There is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either the Energy Information Administration is lying, or you're seriously misinformed.
> Looks to me like we import a half million barrels per day of gasoline.
> 
> I've posted this before. Maybe you're the one not reading the links...
> 
> Weekly U.S. Imports of Total Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is not a graph of net import/export.  It is just a chart of how much total gasoline we import.  I've searched the EIA and this was the best I could come up with.
> U.S. Imports & Exports
> Unfortunetly it doesn't compare total gasoline import vs total gasoline export, but it does show one obvious point
> Import    (by week)
> Finished Motor Gasoline      43 80 111 81 126 32
> 
> Export    (by week)
> Finished Motor Gasoline     529 529 523 523 523 523
Click to expand...


Thanks for that. 

Which brings us full circle to the fact that the U.S. is now a NET exporter of refined products.

And I'll put this to you once again- why flood inventories and stocks with an obviously expensive product that will do nothing to bring down retail prices? 

If surplus production is kept in unused inventory, it generates no circulated value. If it's exported, it brings hard dollars into our domestic economy. 

And I owe you another vote of thanks- because it's made me rethink my disdain for agriculture exports, which appears on surface to follow the same tact. 

Let me drink... er, think on that some more.


----------



## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the U.S. is "awash" in gasoline, why are we importing millions of gallons daily?
> 
> You are both totally off the mark here. We are currently a _net exporter_ of ALL refined products. Mostly diesel, middle distillates, and bunker fuels.
> 
> And I challenge you both to please explain to me what is so correct and acceptable about exporting millions of metric tons of grain each year while we are paying record prices for our groceries.
> 
> And what the fuck is the deal with ethanol? 40% of our corn crop is diverted to ethanol production. We are making so much ethanol in this country that 20% of total ETOH production is exported!
> 
> Honestly, your ignorance astounds me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you are confused is because you are not reading the links.  The US is *NOT* importing gasoline.  It is importing oil.  There is a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Either the Energy Information Administration is lying, or you're seriously misinformed.
> Looks to me like we import a half million barrels per day of gasoline.
> 
> I've posted this before. *Maybe you're the one not reading the links*...
> 
> Weekly U.S. Imports of Total Gasoline (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Click to expand...

It couldn't be you are posting the wrong link, no it has to be everyone else is wrong except you. 
Notice the NET imports are negative. That means exports exceed imports.

Weekly U.S. Net Imports of Total Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels per Day)







  2011-Jul  07/01   -295     07/08   -17     07/15   -97     07/22   -16     07/29   -18           2011-Aug  08/05   -247     08/12   -421     08/19   -20     08/26   -467                   2011-Sep  09/02   -542     09/09   -450     09/16   -375     09/23   -559     09/30   -363           2011-Oct  10/07   -523     10/14   -1,328     10/21   -737     10/28   -449                   2011-Nov  11/04   -722     11/11   -918     11/18   -347     11/25   -550                   2011-Dec  12/02   -205     12/09   -61     12/16   -742     12/23   -594     12/30   -970


----------



## Mr. H.

And exports exceeding imports is...

What is so different about exporting G.I. Joes with Kung Fu grips as opposed to exporting- gasoline?


----------



## Mr. H.

I'll answer it for you. It's called petrophobia.


----------



## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> And exports exceeding imports is...
> 
> What is so different about exporting G.I. Joes with Kung Fu grips as opposed to exporting- gasoline?


The obvious difference is the GOP is claiming that gas prices are high because environmentalists are restricting refining capacity. Obviously there is enough capacity to meet domestic demand plus the capacity to export record amounts as well. Gas prices are high because the oil monopoly keeps the prices high independent of supply and demand factors.


----------



## Mr. H.

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> And exports exceeding imports is...
> 
> What is so different about exporting G.I. Joes with Kung Fu grips as opposed to exporting- gasoline?
> 
> 
> 
> The obvious difference is the GOP is claiming that gas prices are high because environmentalists are restricting refining capacity. Obviously there is enough capacity to meet domestic demand plus the capacity to export record amounts as well. Gas prices are high because the oil monopoly keeps the prices high independent of supply and demand factors.
Click to expand...


There was a time when we had deficit refining capacity- but times have changed. And they've changed for the good. 

Would you prefer that the U.S. continually be a net importer of gasoline thereby exacerbating our trade deficit? 

"Gas prices are high because"... the perpetual whining mantra of the liberal mindset. 

Regarding your alleged "oil monopoly" - in 1999 when crude was selling at $10 and gasoline was 60 cents a gallon - where was this monpoly?


----------



## Care4all

richstacy said:


> Nonsense cynic!!  You want to know why gas is so high??  *It's not.* But it will be.  China and India are putting millions of vehicles a year on the road.  That will increase the demand exponentially and decrease the supply,  Then we'll have high gas prices.  Whether you know it or not,  they already pay a bundle for the stuff in most of the rest to the world.  Generally more than twice what we pay! http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/10/news/international/gas_prices_worldwide/index.htm
> 
> If we are exporting so much gasoline, as you claim, then why are we importing more than half our oil, millions of barrels of crude a day from all over the world??  Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. ...
Click to expand...

they pay more due to their tax policies...



> "The difference between countries comes down to taxes and subsidies,"  said Tom Kloza, the chief oil analyst for Oil Price Information Service.  "Prices are incredibly high in Europe because of the stiff taxes that  EU countries put on fuel. The same holds true for many other countries."


----------



## HUGGY

OK why does gas cost so much today at today's oil prices?

A little research shows what the oil industry admits to as costs to refine a gallon of gasoline.

30-60 cents... 

Refinery Oil Prices - Cost To Refine Oil Into Gasoline | What It Costs

Who was it that said oil companies only make 2 cents a gallon on gas?  Whoever it was...FUCK YOU!!! YOU LYING TURD!!!


----------



## Mr. H.

They call me MR. LYING TURD!

Calm youself. 

Go to your happy place. 

Ssshhhh.... it's ok. 

It's not your fault you are stupid.


----------



## edthecynic

Mr. H. said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> And exports exceeding imports is...
> 
> What is so different about exporting G.I. Joes with Kung Fu grips as opposed to exporting- gasoline?
> 
> 
> 
> The obvious difference is the GOP is claiming that gas prices are high because environmentalists are restricting refining capacity. Obviously there is enough capacity to meet domestic demand plus the capacity to export record amounts as well. Gas prices are high because the oil monopoly keeps the prices high independent of supply and demand factors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There was a time when we had deficit refining capacity- but times have changed. And they've changed for the good.
> 
> Would you prefer that the U.S. continually be a net importer of gasoline thereby exacerbating our trade deficit?
> 
> "Gas prices are high because"... the perpetual whining mantra of the liberal mindset.
> 
> Regarding your alleged "oil monopoly" - in 1999 when crude was selling at $10 and gasoline was 60 cents a gallon - where was this monpoly?
Click to expand...

Plotting to jack the price up.


----------



## RGR

Is the idea that "Big Oil" is behind any particular gasoline price level really that common of an opinion nowadays? I was under the impression that since the 70's when most people did believe the price runups were all a conspiracy, that Americans had learned better since then?


----------



## Douger

Predatory Kaptalizm, what murkins love most.
BP profits hit $5.3 billion, year on from Gulf spill - CNN.com


----------



## Douger

Here's non-subsidized pricing($/USG) at flat production costs ( Socialist, evul Ecuador)


----------



## Mr. H.

Per litre.


----------



## Big Fitz

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The obvious difference is the GOP is claiming that gas prices are high because environmentalists are restricting refining capacity. Obviously there is enough capacity to meet domestic demand plus the capacity to export record amounts as well. Gas prices are high because the oil monopoly keeps the prices high independent of supply and demand factors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a time when we had deficit refining capacity- but times have changed. And they've changed for the good.
> 
> Would you prefer that the U.S. continually be a net importer of gasoline thereby exacerbating our trade deficit?
> 
> "Gas prices are high because"... the perpetual whining mantra of the liberal mindset.
> 
> Regarding your alleged "oil monopoly" - in 1999 when crude was selling at $10 and gasoline was 60 cents a gallon - where was this monpoly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Plotting to jack the price up.
Click to expand...


----------



## RGR

Mr. H. said:


> Per litre.



It is a bit awful when someone doesn't know that, isn't it.


----------



## edthecynic

RGR said:


> Is the idea that "Big Oil" is behind any particular gasoline price level really that common of an opinion nowadays? I was under the impression that since the 70's when most people did believe the price runups were all a conspiracy, that Americans had learned better since then?


The Rockefeller Family still controls the oil monopoly and have for over 100 years. Nothing has changed.


----------



## RGR

edthecynic said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the idea that "Big Oil" is behind any particular gasoline price level really that common of an opinion nowadays? I was under the impression that since the 70's when most people did believe the price runups were all a conspiracy, that Americans had learned better since then?
> 
> 
> 
> The Rockefeller Family still controls the oil monopoly and have for over 100 years. Nothing has changed.
Click to expand...


Interesting, but the family names of people running the remnants of the Seven Sisters, let alone the NOCs which control most of the worlds oil, isn't Rockefeller.


----------



## Intense

edthecynic said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want cheap corn, wheat, oats, etc. but "Big Ag" is exporting grains at a record pace thereby controlling the price we pay for food at the supermarket.
> 
> Get a grip. Crude, natural gas, and refined products is a global market.
> We're part of the globe.
> 
> 
> 
> We are not importing corn from terrorist sponsoring countries to export corn flakes. Notice how CON$ are avoiding their bullshit about lack of refining capacity is driving up prices.
> 
> http://www.igc.int/downloads/gmrsummary/gmrsumme.pdf
> 
> MARKET COMMENTARY
> 
> After showing some strength in early November,
> global grain export prices were again in retreat,
> though with rice once more the exception.  Overall,
> IGCs GOI index fell by 16 points, or 6%, to a 13-
> month low.
Click to expand...


That is a good point Ed. So you support importing more from Canada. Good to hear. 

Yes We would like to see better, lower oil and gas pricing. What is the total Government take on every barrel again? What are the advantages and disadvantages on increased Refining, Storage, and Transport abilities here again?


----------



## edthecynic

RGR said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is the idea that "Big Oil" is behind any particular gasoline price level really that common of an opinion nowadays? I was under the impression that since the 70's when most people did believe the price runups were all a conspiracy, that Americans had learned better since then?
> 
> 
> 
> The Rockefeller Family still *controls* the oil monopoly and have for over 100 years. Nothing has changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Interesting, but the family names of people running the remnants of the Seven Sisters, let alone the NOCs which *control* most of the worlds oil, isn't Rockefeller.
Click to expand...

That's because there is a subtle difference between ownership and control. After Rockefeller was forced to divest his ownership of Standard Oil. Some stockholders then tried to oust him from the board. On paper he only owned 25% but he ended up voting 60% of the proxies. The monopolists have vehicles, like charities and banks that they control, to maintain their monopolies without owning the stock in their name. 

For example, banks have pension funds, etc., that own the stock, but the bank votes the proxies. Charities, like the Rockefeller Foundation, are endowed with stock. The charity owns the stock but the family votes the proxies. So whose "name" owns the company is meaningless and only there to deceive the gullible, it's who votes the proxies that controls the monopoly.


----------



## Intense

edthecynic said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Rockefeller Family still *controls* the oil monopoly and have for over 100 years. Nothing has changed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, but the family names of people running the remnants of the Seven Sisters, let alone the NOCs which *control* most of the worlds oil, isn't Rockefeller.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because there is a subtle difference between ownership and control. After Rockefeller was forced to divest his ownership of Standard Oil. Some stockholders then tried to oust him from the board. On paper he only owned 25% but he ended up voting 60% of the proxies. The monopolists have vehicles, like charities and banks that they control, to maintain their monopolies without owning the stock in their name.
> 
> For example, banks have pension funds, etc., that own the stock, but the bank votes the proxies. Charities, like the Rockefeller Foundation, are endowed with stock. The charity owns the stock but the family votes the proxies. So whose "name" owns the company is meaningless and only there to deceive the gullible, it's who votes the proxies that controls the monopoly.
Click to expand...


Still, a Monopoly is not a Monopoly without Government Support, Sanction, and Complicity.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Middleoftheroad said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> The price of GAS has nothing whatever to do with what is good for America.
> 
> The corporations that control the industry would sell every drop of gas offshore if the market made that the most profitable thing to do.
> 
> Those are not AMERICAN companies, they are private corporations whose only mission is to make money,
> 
> This is apparently something most of you forget when you talk about OUR gas, OUR oil, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually how it works.
Click to expand...


It works for the oil slickers, but not for the American people.  Time to declare our eminent domain over these economic traitors.


----------



## Mr. H.

PrometheusBound said:


> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> The price of GAS has nothing whatever to do with what is good for America.
> 
> The corporations that control the industry would sell every drop of gas offshore if the market made that the most profitable thing to do.
> 
> Those are not AMERICAN companies, they are private corporations whose only mission is to make money,
> 
> This is apparently something most of you forget when you talk about OUR gas, OUR oil, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually how it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It works for the oil slickers, but not for the American people.  Time to declare our eminent domain over these economic traitors.
Click to expand...


Economic traitors that put billions of dollars of investment into the U.S. economy, year in and year out - employing millions of workers and contributing a significant percentage to the entire GDP of this country...

Rrrrr... yup. Sure.


----------



## RGR

edthecynic said:


> For example, banks have pension funds, etc., that own the stock, but the bank votes the proxies. Charities, like the Rockefeller Foundation, are endowed with stock. The charity owns the stock but the family votes the proxies. So whose "name" owns the company is meaningless and only there to deceive the gullible, it's who votes the proxies that controls the monopoly.



So....maybe the Rockefellers have control through stock ownership, and maybe they don't. Certainly the pension funds which vote their stock and any proxies anyone else votes isn't necessarily a Rockefeller either.

And big oil isn't a monopoly either. Maybe you should just say "OPEC is a cartel" because that is actually correct? And then pretend that the Rockefellers through some mysterious mind control ability tell the oil ministers of those NOCs what to do? 

Certainly back in the days when I worked in industry I never felt this type of control, nor profited through being involved in this alleged monopoly. And not a Rockefeller in sight, and didn't work for a public company. Maybe it was hidden from me somehow, and the owner was actually a long lost Rockefeller cousin or some such?


----------



## RGR

PrometheusBound said:


> It works for the oil slickers, but not for the American people.  Time to declare our eminent domain over these economic traitors.



So stealing the property of individual American who own their mineral rights is a good idea in your world?


----------



## Middleoftheroad

PrometheusBound said:


> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> The price of GAS has nothing whatever to do with what is good for America.
> 
> The corporations that control the industry would sell every drop of gas offshore if the market made that the most profitable thing to do.
> 
> Those are not AMERICAN companies, they are private corporations whose only mission is to make money,
> 
> This is apparently something most of you forget when you talk about OUR gas, OUR oil, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually how it works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It works for the oil slickers, but not for the American people.  Time to declare our eminent domain over these economic traitors.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but no it is not time.


----------



## Big Fitz

Middleoftheroad said:


> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually how it works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It works for the oil slickers, but not for the American people.  Time to declare our eminent domain over these economic traitors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, but no it is not time.
Click to expand...

Worked for the Soviet Socialists, German Nazis and Venezuelan Communists.  Why shouldn't it work here too?



Private property is an elitist ideal, sadly outdated and should be done away with for the glory and purity of state ownership.

:barf:


----------



## Jos

*Did you know that by law the US guarantees israel's oil supply - no matter what?*
..even if it causes US a DOMESTIC SHORTAGE???


> Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) the USA guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA. Moreover, the U.S. government agreed to divert oil from the USA, even if this causes domestic shortages. The U.S. government also guaranteed delivery of oil in U.S. tankers if commercial shippers become unable or unwilling to carry oil from the USA to Israel.


Did you know that by law the US guarantees israel's oil supply - no matter what? | Wake Up From Your Slumber


----------



## Mr. H.

Wow that's nooze to me. 
Maybe now that Israel has discovered huge natural gas reserves, they'll convert their vehicles. 
It would be the smart thing to do.


----------



## PrometheusBound

Big Fitz said:


> Middleoftheroad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PrometheusBound said:
> 
> 
> 
> It works for the oil slickers, but not for the American people.  Time to declare our eminent domain over these economic traitors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but no it is not time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Worked for the Soviet Socialists, German Nazis and Venezuelan Communists.  Why shouldn't it work here too?
> 
> 
> 
> Private property is an elitist ideal, sadly outdated and should be done away with for the glory and purity of state ownership.
> 
> :barf:
Click to expand...


Pot calling the kettle black.  If we ever wake up to the fact that Capitalism amounts to Communism for the rich; that is, a small group having absolute control, not the qualified leadership that Communists or their Capitalist mirror-images claim they give us,  only then can we become a nation determining our own destiny instead of being manipulated by their humiliating power into sheepishly submitting to whatever tiny self-serving group claims it is fit to lead us no matter what we want for ourselves.


----------



## Middleoftheroad

Jos said:


> *Did you know that by law the US guarantees israel's oil supply - no matter what?*
> ..even if it causes US a DOMESTIC SHORTAGE???
> 
> 
> 
> Under a 1975 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) the USA guaranteed all Israel's oil needs in the event of a crisis. This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars. Special legislation was enacted to exempt Israel from restrictions on oil exports from the USA. Moreover, the U.S. government agreed to divert oil from the USA, even if this causes domestic shortages. The U.S. government also guaranteed delivery of oil in U.S. tankers if commercial shippers become unable or unwilling to carry oil from the USA to Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that by law the US guarantees israel's oil supply - no matter what? | Wake Up From Your Slumber
Click to expand...


You need to understand the intent behind treaties to see what can actually happen from them.  This MoU was signed in case certain countries decide to stop selling oil to Israel.  At which point the US will sell oil to Israel at market prices.  This costs the US nothing.  We buy at market price, then we sell to them at market price.  Israel will not take advantage of that situation in any way as we are their most important ally.  It also contains a provision that the agreement can be cancelled with a one year notice.


----------



## Jos

*even if this causes domestic shortages.*


----------



## JStone

Mr. H. said:


> Wow that's nooze to me.
> Maybe now that Israel has discovered huge natural gas reserves, they'll convert their vehicles.
> It would be the smart thing to do.


----------



## Care4all

Mr. H. said:


> Wow that's nooze to me.
> Maybe now that Israel has discovered huge natural gas reserves, they'll convert their vehicles.
> It would be the smart thing to do.



we, the USA has HUGE Natural gas Reserves....why wouldn't america do the same Mr h?  Is there a drawback?

Care


----------



## Mr. H.

Care4all said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow that's nooze to me.
> Maybe now that Israel has discovered huge natural gas reserves, they'll convert their vehicles.
> It would be the smart thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we, the USA has HUGE Natural gas Reserves....why wouldn't america do the same Mr h?  Is there a drawback?
> 
> Care
Click to expand...


It's... complicated. 
Ask JStone. I'm just the class Dunce. 

NGV's in the U.S. are typically relegated to fleet transportation- businesses or municipalities with a large inventory to convert so they'll burn the fuel. 
The infrastructure isn't there and would be too expensive to implement nationwide. 

But Isreael- since the country is so small and has a low population count (not to mention their superior intellect ) would be the perfect setting for such a program.


----------



## editec

Gas is so high because the WORLDWIDE demand for gas is increasing.

I remind you again that the USA is EXPORTING GASOLINE, every month.

All this bullshit you folks post about how AMERICA needs to drill is silly.

America doesn't control the oil or the refineries either.

The INTERNATIONAL CORPORATIONS do.

If you think you're getting screwed then perhaps you ought to stop blaming OBAMA and start blaming the people who actaully CONTROL the industry.


----------



## Mr. H.

Jee-zuz.

I give up.


----------



## Big Fitz

Mr. H. said:


> Jee-zuz.
> 
> I give up.









was obvious to me pages ago.  sorry dude.


----------



## Robodoon

We are in a game of destruction, the very forces which own the energy (finite resources IE) are the very same ones who remove it from us.

You see big energy while based in the US, now are multinational, and have no concern about the energy needs of the US. They are just looking for control, for their agenda which is a 3rd world US....and world basically, China, India, Russia will rise...while in time they will fall if the elites move their Agenda forward....UN AGENDA 21


----------



## Mr. H.

Whatever...


----------



## HUGGY

*Why Is Gas So High?*

Because nobody has had the nads to take out a few key oil/refinery execs and thereby "splain it" to the rest of em what American exceptionalism really means?

What ya wanna wager that a dozen of the top theives drop and they start to rethink squeezing every last dime from the American consumer.  Just call it suppy and demand..  They have the supply...we make the demands..

It's not such an outrageous idea..  We already eliminate all kinds of terrorists when it suits our purposes...including economic ones..  

Just a thought..


----------



## Mr. H.

That is blindly incoherent.


----------



## theHawk

editec said:


> Gas is so high because the WORLDWIDE demand for gas is increasing.
> 
> I remind you again that the USA is EXPORTING GASOLINE, every month.
> 
> All this bullshit you folks post about how AMERICA needs to drill is silly.
> 
> America doesn't control the oil or the refineries either.
> 
> The INTERNATIONAL CORPORATIONS do.
> 
> If you think you're getting screwed then perhaps you ought to stop blaming OBAMA and start blaming the people who actaully CONTROL the industry.



Fuuny, I recall you libs were all blamming Bush for high gas prices.

Gasoline is being exported because demand has fallen so much. In part due to MPG standards for vehicles, but also thanks to the Obama-economy of 15-25% real unemployment rate- people just aren't driving to work anymore.

So refineries are either shutting down (which is more jobs lost) or they turn to exporting.

Guess you libs would be happier with more layoffs.


----------



## KissMy

Nancy Pelosi & Congress raised Federal Gasoline Taxes charged to you at the pump at the end of 2011.


----------



## uscitizen

Why Is Gas So High?

Taco Bell just raised their prices.


----------



## JiggsCasey

cool stories, bro...

or maybe they've just been lying all along about how much there actually is so as to maintain investment, inflate stock prices, ... and, of course, fool dumb "drill baby drill" republicans into believing that if we just throw enough money at the problem and keep praying really hard, God will just put more oil and gas in the ground.

"fracking... totally safe, and completely worth it" ... 

lulz... 

*U.S. Cuts Estimate for Marcellus Shale Gas Reserves by 66%*
U.S. Cuts Estimate for Marcellus Shale Gas Reserves by 66% - Bloomberg

_The U.S. Energy Department cut its estimate for natural gas reserves in the Marcellus shale formation by 66 percent, citing improved data on drilling and production.

About 141 trillion cubic feet of gas can be recovered from the Marcellus shale using current technology, down from the previous estimate of 410 trillion, the department said today in its Annual Energy Outlook.* About 482 trillion cubic feet can be produced from shale basins across the U.S., down 42 percent from 827 trillion in last year&#8217;s outlook.*

<snip>... 

*The estimated Marcellus reserves would meet U.S. gas demand for about six years, using 2010 consumption data, according to the Energy Department, down from 17 years in the previous outlook*._​
Just for the record, we consume some 24 trillion cubic feet per year, and growing... 

Fail.


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> Just for the record, we consume some 24 trillion cubic feet per year, and growing...
> 
> Fail.



Hubbert predicted peak natural gas back in the early 70's as well. And yet we have recently peaked again in natural gas production. So Hubbert is a pretty epic fail as well.

Remember when peak oilers tried proclaiming the Natural Gas Cliff in 2005 Jiggsy? More epic fail. Maybe they are parrots too?


----------



## Care4all

KissMy said:


> Nancy Pelosi & Congress raised Federal Gasoline Taxes charged to you at the pump at the end of 2011.



NO kiss, You got that one wrong.

The federal gasoline tax has NOT been raised since 1993, nearly 20 years it has stayed the same, which is 18.4 cents a gallon.

Pelosi didn't even have control of congress in 2011?

Maybe your State has raised their State gasoline tax, but the Federal Gas tax is long over due if we honestly review our infrastructure and the money needed to replace the risky and unsafe things like many old bridges.

Though I am personally starting to believe the oil and gasoline industry and auto makers in the private sector should maintain our roads since they benefit the most monetarily from all the cars sold and gasoline used due to this infrastructure....

Each State's gas tax is much higher than the federal gas tax...on average about 33 cents a gallon/ state.

Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## JiggsCasey

RGR said:


> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for the record, we consume some 24 trillion cubic feet per year, and growing...
> 
> Fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hubbert predicted peak natural gas back in the early 70's as well.
Click to expand...


Link for context, or admit you rely on false narratives. Then shut the fuck up.



RGR said:


> And yet we have recently peaked again in natural gas production. So Hubbert is a pretty epic fail as well.



False dichotomy, FTW!!!



RGR said:


> Remember when peak oilers tried proclaiming the Natural Gas Cliff in 2005 Jiggsy?



No. Again, please link to back up your claim. I remember us saying conventional oil production peaked in 2005, because it did. 



RGR said:


> More epic fail. Maybe they are parrots too?



The irony of you repeating the same material time and time again, yet calling anyone else the "parrot" truly is amusing. You started out so sure of yourself and long-winded. 

Now you're reduced to stealing my jabs, running from direct challenges, and arguing with straw men.

Holy crap are you finished. I don't even need to address you anymore. 

If you link to your claims above, I'll give you the time of day. Otherwise, good game.


----------



## Synthaholic

Oil speculation adds over 20% to the cost of gas.


----------



## Mr. H.

Synthaholic said:


> Oil speculation adds over 20% to the cost of gas.



As does speculation in most any other commodity. 

Our country is awash in agricultural grains, yet food prices are exhorbitant. 

And we can't burn our corn fast enough. 30% or our corn ends up in our cars. 
There's so much ethanol that we're exporting 20% of that production.


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> If you link to your claims above, I'll give you the time of day. Otherwise, good game.



I already have. Numerous times. First you ignore them, then you forget them, then you demand them all over again. May I recommend some memory exercises, and collecting a 2nd grader to actually follow the hyperlinks and explain them too you, perhaps leave some sticky notes on your desk so you don't keep asking for the same information, over and over again?

Oh..and the name of the book is "High Noon for Natural Gas", by Julian Darley. I recommend more reading time for parrots, less ignorance. Might I recommend a decent elementary school?


----------



## KissMy

Care4all said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nancy Pelosi & Congress raised Federal Gasoline Taxes charged to you at the pump at the end of 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO kiss, You got that one wrong.
> 
> The federal gasoline tax has NOT been raised since 1993, nearly 20 years it has stayed the same, which is 18.4 cents a gallon.
> 
> Pelosi didn't even have control of congress in 2011?
> 
> Maybe your State has raised their State gasoline tax, but the Federal Gas tax is long over due if we honestly review our infrastructure and the money needed to replace the risky and unsafe things like many old bridges.
> 
> Though I am personally starting to believe the oil and gasoline industry and auto makers in the private sector should maintain our roads since they benefit the most monetarily from all the cars sold and gasoline used due to this infrastructure....
> 
> Each State's gas tax is much higher than the federal gas tax...on average about 33 cents a gallon/ state.
> 
> Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


The ethanol tax cut reduced the taxes everyone paid at the pump since every gallon of gasoline contained at least 10% ethanol. Congress sunset the ethanol tax cut at the end of 2011. See the sudden gas price reversal & spike since new years in the chart below. That is a direct result of higher taxes per gallon & falling ethanol competition. Gasoline prices continue to spiral as ethanol production has dropped every since this tax hike on new years day.








> Jan. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Ethanol production in the U.S. fell 0.7 percent to 934,000 barrels a day, the lowest level since Nov. 25, according to an Energy Department report.
> 
> The third consecutive weekly drop matches the longest such streak since the period ended Sept. 23. Stockpiles climbed 1.4 percent to 19.8 million barrels, the highest level since the week ended May 27, the department said in a report released today in Washington. Inventories have swelled six straight weeks, the longest streak since Jan. 21, 2011.


----------



## JiggsCasey

RGR said:


> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you link to your claims above, I'll give you the time of day. Otherwise, good game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already have. Numerous times. First you ignore them, then you forget them, then you demand them all over again. May I recommend some memory exercises, and collecting a 2nd grader to actually follow the hyperlinks and explain them too you, perhaps leave some sticky notes on your desk so you don't keep asking for the same information, over and over again?
> 
> Oh..and the name of the book is "High Noon for Natural Gas", by Julian Darley. I recommend more reading time for parrots, less ignorance. Might I recommend a decent elementary school?
Click to expand...


LOL... So now you're referencing peak oil/energy crisis books to support your argument that there is no energy crisis. And not a very good book, at that.

Which claim of yours do you feel is supported by that book? Hubbert's peak dateline being wrong? "Or natural gas peaked in 2005" being wrong?

You can't argue with straw men and pretend you're beating me at this discussion. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Do better. You've backed yourself into a corner again. Come out punching for once.


----------



## uscitizen

Mr. H. said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oil speculation adds over 20% to the cost of gas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As does speculation in most any other commodity.
> 
> Our country is awash in agricultural grains, yet food prices are exhorbitant.
> 
> And we can't burn our corn fast enough. 30% or our corn ends up in our cars.
> There's so much ethanol that we're exporting 20% of that production.
Click to expand...


And what does speculation produce?
Gambling profits for the few?
Higher prices for the working class?


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JiggsCasey said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you link to your claims above, I'll give you the time of day. Otherwise, good game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already have. Numerous times. First you ignore them, then you forget them, then you demand them all over again.
> 
> Oh..and the name of the book is "High Noon for Natural Gas", by Julian Darley. I recommend more reading time for parrots, less ignorance. Might I recommend a decent elementary school?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL... So now you're referencing peak oil/energy crisis books to support your argument that there is no energy crisis. And not a very good book, at that.
Click to expand...


I can reference peak oil books as easily as I can wildly optimistic ones. That is part of what it takes to make an informed decision, knowledge of both sides of the issue. Understandable that you are unfamiliar with this technique. It is called "being informed".



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> Which claim of yours do you feel is supported by that book? Hubbert's peak dateline being wrong? "Or natural gas peaked in 2005" being wrong?



If you had read it, you wouldn't have to ask that question now, would you? I recommend you read first, then you won't have to ask silly questions. Didn't we discuss your lack of reading of even basic reports, like Hirsch's 2005 DOE? Less parroting, more reading.



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> Do better. You've backed yourself into a corner again. Come out punching for once.



So now, because you can't even remember past challenges, or the information provided to refute them, or your ignorance of the information provided, and lack the memory to access any of your prior pitfalls, I'm the one who is in a corner? How perfectly....you.

Come join us again this year Jiggsy, I'll explain why parrots aren't smart enough to know what reserves are. And I'll even buy you lunch while I use stick figures and monosyllabic words, in the hopes even a parrot can learn at that level.

AAPG Annual Convention & Exhibition - Long Beach 2012


----------



## RGR

JiggsCasey said:


> RGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hubbert predicted peak natural gas back in the early 70's as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link for context, or admit you rely on false narratives. Then shut the fuck up.
Click to expand...


Your ignorance of your own religion is not my problem. And we've gone over this before, you have apparently forgotten yet again.



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> The irony of you repeating the same material time and time again, yet calling anyone else the "parrot" truly is amusing. You started out so sure of yourself and long-winded.



I only call you a parrot. Others around here appear to have functioning neurons and not be of the order psittaciformes.



			
				JiggsCasey said:
			
		

> If you link to your claims above, I'll give you the time of day. Otherwise, good game.



Your inability to remember, or find, the information already provided is not my issue. Can you PLEASE bring back someone from your religion with a functioning brain instead of a cut and paste specialist? Please?


----------



## KissMy

KissMy said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nancy Pelosi & Congress raised Federal Gasoline Taxes charged to you at the pump at the end of 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO kiss, You got that one wrong.
> 
> The federal gasoline tax has NOT been raised since 1993, nearly 20 years it has stayed the same, which is 18.4 cents a gallon.
> 
> Pelosi didn't even have control of congress in 2011?
> 
> Maybe your State has raised their State gasoline tax, but the Federal Gas tax is long over due if we honestly review our infrastructure and the money needed to replace the risky and unsafe things like many old bridges.
> 
> Though I am personally starting to believe the oil and gasoline industry and auto makers in the private sector should maintain our roads since they benefit the most monetarily from all the cars sold and gasoline used due to this infrastructure....
> 
> Each State's gas tax is much higher than the federal gas tax...on average about 33 cents a gallon/ state.
> 
> Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The ethanol tax cut reduced the taxes everyone paid at the pump since every gallon of gasoline contained at least 10% ethanol. Congress sunset the ethanol tax cut at the end of 2011. See the sudden gas price reversal & spike since new years in the chart below. That is a direct result of higher taxes per gallon & falling ethanol competition. Gasoline prices continue to spiral as ethanol production has dropped every since this tax hike on new years day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jan. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Ethanol production in the U.S. fell 0.7 percent to 934,000 barrels a day, the lowest level since Nov. 25, according to an Energy Department report.
> 
> The third consecutive weekly drop matches the longest such streak since the period ended Sept. 23. Stockpiles climbed 1.4 percent to 19.8 million barrels, the highest level since the week ended May 27, the department said in a report released today in Washington. Inventories have swelled six straight weeks, the longest streak since Jan. 21, 2011.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Gasoline will rise the entire 45 cents before ethanol becomes competitive enough to compete against gasoline again at the pump. It is good to see Americans willing to shell all that extra hard earned cash at the pump again.


----------



## Mr. H.

Compete?

I thought blend volumes were mandated. 

Mandated, as in guaranteed market.


----------



## KissMy

Mr. H. said:


> Compete?
> 
> I thought blend volumes were mandated.
> 
> Mandated, as in guaranteed market.



That is only for 10% of the gasoline supply. We produce enough ethanol to supply 13% to 15% of the gasoline in this country. That means E85 sales were 5% of pump sales & that competition was holding gasoline prices down. Now the ethanol storage has been building & production falling since 1/1/2012. Gasoline demand has increased by 5% since that time.

Ethanol is still replacing 10% of gasoline so it still holds down prices but ending the ethanol tax break will most certainly increase the price by 45 cents at the pump before it is done rising & E85 takes back off. Here is an article that says ethanol is holding down gas prices by 50%. I don't believe it is that much but I do know it is holding it down by at least 25%. Here is how I can prove it.

In the winter the demand for heating-oil/diesel-fuel is high & gasoline is low. That makes gasoline a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into heating oil. So the gas price dropped below & heating-oil/diesel-fuel would rise above gasoline every winter.

The exact opposite happened every summer.

In the summer the demand for gasoline is high & heating-oil/diesel-fuel is low. That makes heating-oil/diesel-fuel a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into gasoline. So the heating-oil/diesel-fuel price dropped below & gasoline would rise above heating-oil/diesel-fuel every winter.

Before the big rise in Ethanol production this translated into gasoline being at least 25% higher than diesel-fuel at the pump in the summer & diesel-fuel costing at least 25% more than gasoline in the winter.

Now in the past 3 years gasoline prices never even get as high as diesel-fuel even in the summer. At current prices that means Ethanol is holding Gasoline prices at the pump down by at least a $1 a gallon.


----------



## Katzndogz

Gas is cheap.  When Iran closes the Strait of Hormuz and the middle east is in a region wide war it will be expensive.


----------



## Big Fitz

KissMy said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO kiss, You got that one wrong.
> 
> The federal gasoline tax has NOT been raised since 1993, nearly 20 years it has stayed the same, which is 18.4 cents a gallon.
> 
> Pelosi didn't even have control of congress in 2011?
> 
> Maybe your State has raised their State gasoline tax, but the Federal Gas tax is long over due if we honestly review our infrastructure and the money needed to replace the risky and unsafe things like many old bridges.
> 
> Though I am personally starting to believe the oil and gasoline industry and auto makers in the private sector should maintain our roads since they benefit the most monetarily from all the cars sold and gasoline used due to this infrastructure....
> 
> Each State's gas tax is much higher than the federal gas tax...on average about 33 cents a gallon/ state.
> 
> Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ethanol tax cut reduced the taxes everyone paid at the pump since every gallon of gasoline contained at least 10% ethanol. Congress sunset the ethanol tax cut at the end of 2011. See the sudden gas price reversal & spike since new years in the chart below. That is a direct result of higher taxes per gallon & falling ethanol competition. Gasoline prices continue to spiral as ethanol production has dropped every since this tax hike on new years day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jan. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Ethanol production in the U.S. fell 0.7 percent to 934,000 barrels a day, the lowest level since Nov. 25, according to an Energy Department report.
> 
> The third consecutive weekly drop matches the longest such streak since the period ended Sept. 23. Stockpiles climbed 1.4 percent to 19.8 million barrels, the highest level since the week ended May 27, the department said in a report released today in Washington. Inventories have swelled six straight weeks, the longest streak since Jan. 21, 2011.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Gasoline will rise the entire 45 cents before ethanol becomes competitive enough to compete against gasoline again at the pump. It is good to see Americans willing to shell all that extra hard earned cash at the pump again.
Click to expand...

E85 around here has risen to within 20 cents of regular.  Yep.  that's right.  half the power for almost the same price!  You better hope you're really saving the planet to justify THAT stupidity.


----------



## KissMy

Big Fitz said:


> E85 around here has risen to within 20 cents of regular.  Yep.  that's right.  half the power for almost the same price!  You better hope you're really saving the planet to justify THAT stupidity.



I have been running E85 for 10 years but now have switched to burning regular gas since the first of the year. There is no mileage increase on regular gas. I did a 250 mile test last week & was within 0.5-mpg.


----------



## Big Fitz

KissMy said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> 
> E85 around here has risen to within 20 cents of regular.  Yep.  that's right.  half the power for almost the same price!  You better hope you're really saving the planet to justify THAT stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been running E85 for 10 years but now have switched to burning regular gas since the first of the year. There is no mileage increase on regular gas. I did a 250 mile test last week & was within 0.5-mpg.
Click to expand...

strange.... on my 300 mile trips I notice significantly less mpg with only 10% ethanol.  about 60 miles less over the same route.


----------



## Mr. H.

Why are we exporting 20% of ethanol production?

Isn't that counter-intuitive to the original purpose of the scheme?

Why isn't agriculture vilified for exporting ethanol, but the petroleum industry is downright castigated if they export refined product.


----------



## zonly1

The dollar is getting kick to the curb.

The dollar is not being recognized in china, russia, iran, brazil and soon to be more.  We print money and thus produces a weaker dollar.  

In economics, if you print more money to chase fewer goods...it only weakens the dollar.

When the dollar weakens, the average American will be paying more for every life necessity..food clothes and entertainment. That means higher interest rates.


----------



## Ringel05

Right now I have so much gas I'm wearing ballast.......


----------



## LilOlLady

Mr. H. said:


> waltky said:
> 
> 
> 
> US Exporting Record Amount Of Gasoline...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> errr... you're repeating what edthecynic already posted.
Click to expand...



It needs repeating because you "village idiots" are not getting it.


----------



## HUGGY

*Why Is Gas So High?*

Because Obama personally demanded that the Texas refineries follow the law and clean up thier refineries that they had twenty years and trillions of profit dollars to accomplish.  And to make things worse Obama recently visited Washington state and by remarkable co-incidence a fire started at the Bellingham refinery when he was here.

It is and always has been Obama's fault.   There is no denying it.


----------



## Big Fitz

HUGGY said:


> *Why Is Gas So High?*
> 
> Because Obama personally demanded that the Texas refineries follow the law and clean up thier refineries that they had twenty years and trillions of profit dollars to accomplish.  And to make things worse Obama recently visited Washington state and by remarkable co-incidence a fire started at the Bellingham refinery when he was here.
> 
> It is and always has been Obama's fault.   There is no denying it.


Vetoing the Keystone XL pipeline couldn't have had any effect, could it?

Noooooooooo....


----------



## Old Rocks

Again, Fritzy, how can it have an effect when we are exporting gasoline? You are like a stuck record, repeating the same thing, no matter how irrelevant.


----------



## Katzndogz

Gas prices are high because it was one of obama's campaign promises.  Energy prices would skyrocket and gas should to up to $8.00 to $10.00 a gallon.


----------



## jodylee

because your dumb as country is controled compeled to do what ever isreal tells it to do, and insists on putting santions on iran when most sensible people will tell you they control the straits of humoze (sorry about the spelling) and would kick you butts if you tried to stop them.


----------



## Big Fitz

jodylee said:


> because your dumb as country is controled compeled to do what ever isreal tells it to do, and insists on putting santions on iran when most sensible people will tell you they control the straits of humoze (sorry about the spelling) and would kick you butts if you tried to stop them.


How stands that 4th most powerful military in the world: Iraq?  Circa 1991 of course.


----------



## Care4all

Katzndogz said:


> Gas prices are high because it was one of obama's campaign promises.  Energy prices would skyrocket and gas should to up to $8.00 to $10.00 a gallon.


wrong! and a lie....katz.


----------



## Mr. H.

Deisel, self-serve, fix a flat.
Jumper cables, 5% cash back.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t34KBrek2_U]5% Cashback at Gas Stations - Discover Card Commercial - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## RGR

Care4all said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas prices are high because it was one of obama's campaign promises.  Energy prices would skyrocket and gas should to up to $8.00 to $10.00 a gallon.
> 
> 
> 
> wrong! and a lie....katz.
Click to expand...


I actually thought there was a good Obama quote, where he said yes, he did want gas prices to be higher. I think I've seen it before. It is a perfectly reasonable desire, albeit politically dangerous to tell Americans.


----------



## Katzndogz

Care4all said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas prices are high because it was one of obama's campaign promises.  Energy prices would skyrocket and gas should to up to $8.00 to $10.00 a gallon.
> 
> 
> 
> wrong! and a lie....katz.
Click to expand...


There are too many videos of his interview around of him saying that his policies would cause energy prices to skyrocket.


----------



## editec

*



Why Is Gas So High?

Click to expand...

 
Fear and greed.

*


----------



## edthecynic

Katzndogz said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gas prices are high because it was one of obama's campaign promises.  Energy prices would skyrocket and gas should to up to $8.00 to $10.00 a gallon.
> 
> 
> 
> wrong! and a lie....katz.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are too many videos of his interview around of him saying that his policies would cause energy prices to skyrocket.
Click to expand...

You mean HEAVILY EDITED videos! Edited to the point of dishonesty.

What he said that IF energy providers would upgrade to clean technologies they would pass those costs on to the consumers causing energy prices to skyrocket IN THE SHORT TERM, but would SAVE MONEY in the long run!!!!!


----------



## Big Fitz

edthecynic said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> 
> wrong! and a lie....katz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are too many videos of his interview around of him saying that his policies would cause energy prices to skyrocket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean HEAVILY EDITED videos! Edited to the point of dishonesty.
> 
> What he said that IF energy providers would upgrade to clean technologies they would pass those costs on to the consumers causing energy prices to skyrocket IN THE SHORT TERM, but would SAVE MONEY in the long run!!!!!
Click to expand...

Like your completely honest quotes of Rush, eh?  

Meltdown in 3... 2... 1...


----------



## the other mike

edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.


Wrong again.


----------



## edthecynic

US crude oil exports hit a record last week at 3.6 million barrels a day
					

The United States exported a record amount of crude oil last week, as output from the nation's shale fields continues to surge.




					www.cnbc.com
				



*US crude oil exports hit a record last week at 3.6 million barrels a day*
PUBLISHED THU, FEB 21 201912:01 PM EST

Tom DiChristopher@TDICHRISTOPHER
KEY POINTS

U.S. crude oil exports hit an all-time high as output from the nation’s shale fields continues to surge.


----------



## Polishprince

edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.



Its TAXATION that really nails the consumers of gasoline.

Living in Pennsylvania, near the border of Ohio, I can see how PA's confiscatory gasoline taxes affect the prices.

States really need to become more competitive, PA is losing a lot of money as people just cross the border to fill up.


----------



## Mr Natural

Considering what it has to go through to become gas, we should be thankful it doesn’t cost a whole lot more than it does.


----------



## justoffal

edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.



It's getting down to the ugly truth of Government ingress upon our money.  At $2.25/gallon you're looking at $1.00 for processing and Transportation, and another $1.00 for Federal, State and local taxes, fees and licenses....something we already should be paying in so many other ways.

The remaining 25 cents is the profit for the oil companies....

JO


----------



## Bleipriester

edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.


Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...


----------



## edthecynic

Bleipriester said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
Click to expand...

Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.


----------



## Bleipriester

edthecynic said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
Click to expand...

Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.


----------



## Wyatt earp

edthecynic said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
Click to expand...

We don't all live in california with what a 50 cent a gallon tax?


----------



## edthecynic

Bleipriester said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
Click to expand...

But Tramp says we are oil independent!!!
Was he lying as usual?


----------



## Bleipriester

edthecynic said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Tramp says we are oil independent!!!
> Was he lying as usual?
Click to expand...

I guess he is lying again. Daily production is 13 million barrel, daily consumption is 20.


----------



## justoffal

edthecynic said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
Click to expand...


At least make an effort not to be a misinformed hellgrammite. The federal government has added absolutely no taxes whatsoever to Gasoline in the past six years at least....the change in price comes from the commodities fluctuations of the markets, the local taxation done by state and sometimes city, and the ever changing cost of refining the product......sooo um....stuff it and get a real education somewhere.  Tomatoes change at about the same rate...one week they are 99Cents/lb the next $1.49/pound...  Capish sempliciotto?


JO


----------



## edthecynic

justoffal said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At least make an effort not to be a misinformed hellgrammite. The federal government has added absolutely no taxes whatsoever to Gasoline in the past six years at least....the change in price comes from the commodities fluctuations of the markets, the local taxation done by state and sometimes city, and the ever changing cost of refining the product......sooo um....stuff it and get a real education somewhere.  Tomatoes change at about the same rate...one week they are 99Cents/lb the next $1.49/pound...  Capish sempliciotto?
> 
> 
> JO
Click to expand...

Hey pinhead, it's supply and demand, you export the supply and you pay more at home. I gave you AVERAGE yearly gas prices and you STUPIDLY cited weekly prices of tomatoes.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.



What Venezuelan oil?
They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Tramp says we are oil independent!!!
> Was he lying as usual?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess he is lying again. Daily production is 13 million barrel, daily consumption is 20.
Click to expand...


*I guess he is lying again. Daily production is 13 million barrel, daily consumption is 20.*

How much of that 20 is exported rather than consumed in the US?











						Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
					






					www.eia.gov
				



.


----------



## Bleipriester

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
Click to expand...

Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.


----------



## Bleipriester

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Tramp says we are oil independent!!!
> Was he lying as usual?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess he is lying again. Daily production is 13 million barrel, daily consumption is 20.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I guess he is lying again. Daily production is 13 million barrel, daily consumption is 20.*
> 
> How much of that 20 is exported rather than consumed in the US?
> 
> View attachment 415921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eia.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

No. You must ask how much of that 13 is exported. And oil is not equal to oil. As far as I know the US makes mostly light oil.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
Click to expand...


Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were 
a major producer.


----------



## progressive hunter

edthecynic said:


> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.


I dont see 1.75 being a high price for gas,,, in fact thats about what it cost in 1981 when I started driving legally,,


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> Its high? Ask Trump then, why he banned the largest oil recourse then...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Average gas price when Obama left office was $2.204/gal, gas price under Tramp for 2019, the last year of complete data, was $2.60/gal.
> That is a $0.40 Trump TAX on anyone who drives a car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Tramp says we are oil independent!!!
> Was he lying as usual?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess he is lying again. Daily production is 13 million barrel, daily consumption is 20.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I guess he is lying again. Daily production is 13 million barrel, daily consumption is 20.*
> 
> How much of that 20 is exported rather than consumed in the US?
> 
> View attachment 415921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eia.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. You must ask how much of that 13 is exported. And oil is not equal to oil. As far as I know the US makes mostly light oil.
Click to expand...


*You must ask how much of that 13 is exported. *

Why? 

Doesn't 1 million barrels of exported gasoline count as an export?






According to the EIA, petroleum includes refined products which we export.


----------



## Bleipriester

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
Click to expand...

Not true. Oil revenues increased.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
Click to expand...

*
Not true. Oil revenues increased.*

Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
How much have revenues increased under Maduro?


----------



## Bleipriester

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Not true. Oil revenues increased.*
> 
> Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
> How much have revenues increased under Maduro?
Click to expand...

You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high, and that was under Maduro.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Not true. Oil revenues increased.*
> 
> Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
> How much have revenues increased under Maduro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high, and that was under Maduro.
Click to expand...

*
You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. *

No. I'm blaming the decrepit state of their oil industry on Chavez and Maduro.

* In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high*

That is super awesome!!!!!

How does their GDP today compare to 2014?

How has their inflation been lately?


----------



## Bleipriester

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> 
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> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Not true. Oil revenues increased.*
> 
> Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
> How much have revenues increased under Maduro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high, and that was under Maduro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. *
> 
> No. I'm blaming the decrepit state of their oil industry on Chavez and Maduro.
> 
> * In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high*
> 
> That is super awesome!!!!!
> 
> How does their GDP today compare to 2014?
> 
> How has their inflation been lately?
Click to expand...

Ask philanthropist Trump.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
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> Bleipriester said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Not true. Oil revenues increased.*
> 
> Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
> How much have revenues increased under Maduro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high, and that was under Maduro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. *
> 
> No. I'm blaming the decrepit state of their oil industry on Chavez and Maduro.
> 
> * In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high*
> 
> That is super awesome!!!!!
> 
> How does their GDP today compare to 2014?
> 
> How has their inflation been lately?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask philanthropist Trump.
Click to expand...


Don't be afraid.

Maduro is great for Venezuela.


----------



## Bleipriester

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Bleipriester said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Not true. Oil revenues increased.*
> 
> Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
> How much have revenues increased under Maduro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high, and that was under Maduro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. *
> 
> No. I'm blaming the decrepit state of their oil industry on Chavez and Maduro.
> 
> * In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high*
> 
> That is super awesome!!!!!
> 
> How does their GDP today compare to 2014?
> 
> How has their inflation been lately?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask philanthropist Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't be afraid.
> 
> Maduro is great for Venezuela.
Click to expand...

I know. You will see on December 6th.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Bleipriester said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Bleipriester said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Not true. Oil revenues increased.*
> 
> Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
> How much have revenues increased under Maduro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high, and that was under Maduro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. *
> 
> No. I'm blaming the decrepit state of their oil industry on Chavez and Maduro.
> 
> * In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high*
> 
> That is super awesome!!!!!
> 
> How does their GDP today compare to 2014?
> 
> How has their inflation been lately?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask philanthropist Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't be afraid.
> 
> Maduro is great for Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. You will see on December 6th.
Click to expand...


Is Maduro going to explode on December 6th?


----------



## Bleipriester

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Bleipriester said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> Bleipriester said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
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> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
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> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it might have something to do with Trump´s ban of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Venezuelan oil?
> They produce less than 500,000 barrels a day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until Trump,  the US was the largest importer of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Until Chavez and Maduro looted their oil industry into the ground, they were
> a major producer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not true. Oil revenues increased.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Not true. Oil revenues increased.*
> 
> Their oil revenues today are higher than before Chavez?
> How much have revenues increased under Maduro?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high, and that was under Maduro.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *You are trying now to blame the economic war and blockade on Maduro. *
> 
> No. I'm blaming the decrepit state of their oil industry on Chavez and Maduro.
> 
> * In 2014, Venezuelas GDP reached an all time high*
> 
> That is super awesome!!!!!
> 
> How does their GDP today compare to 2014?
> 
> How has their inflation been lately?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask philanthropist Trump.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't be afraid.
> 
> Maduro is great for Venezuela.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know. You will see on December 6th.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is Maduro going to explode on December 6th?
Click to expand...

Guaido.


----------



## edthecynic

Bleipriester said:


> And oil is not equal to oil. As far as I know the US makes mostly light oil.


Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil.


----------



## edthecynic

progressive hunter said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont see 1.75 being a high price for gas,,, in fact thats about what it cost in 1981 when I started driving legally,,
Click to expand...

When I started driving in the 60s it was $0.25/gal.


----------



## Mr Natural

edthecynic said:


> When I started driving in the 60s it was $0.25/gal.


With a set of steak knives with every fill up!


----------



## progressive hunter

edthecynic said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US is producing so much gasoline, Big Oil can't sell all of it here. So they are exporting record amounts of gasoline to keep the price here artificially high. So much for the CON$ervative crap about refining capacity being so low jacking up prices because no new refineries were built in 30 years.
> 
> DRILL, BABY, DRILL
> so Big Oil can
> EXPORT, BABY, EXPORT
> 
> Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011
> 
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- *The United States is awash in gasoline.* So  much so, in fact, that* the country is exporting a record amount of it.*
> The  country exported 430,000 more barrels of gasoline a day than it  imported in September, according to the U.S. Energy Information  Administration.* That is about twice the amount at the start of the year,  *and experts and industry insiders say the trend is here to stay.
> 
> *The  United States began exporting gas in late 2008. *For decades prior,  starting in 1960, the country used all the gas it produced here plus had to import gas from places in Europe.
> But demand for gas  has dropped nearly 10% in recent years. It went from a peak of 9.6  million barrels a day in 2007 to 8.8 million barrels today, according to  the EIA.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont see 1.75 being a high price for gas,,, in fact thats about what it cost in 1981 when I started driving legally,,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When I started driving in the 60s it was $0.25/gal.
Click to expand...

do you have anything more current than ancient history


----------



## Dick Foster

Mr Clean said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I started driving in the 60s it was $0.25/gal.
> 
> 
> 
> With a set of steak knives with every fill up!
Click to expand...

Or dishes and a fist full of S&H green stamps.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

edthecynic said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> And oil is not equal to oil. As far as I know the US makes mostly light oil.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil.
Click to expand...


*Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil.*













						The United States tends to produce lighter crude oil and import heavier crude oil
					






					www.eia.gov


----------



## edthecynic

Toddsterpatriot said:


> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> And oil is not equal to oil. As far as I know the US makes mostly light oil.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil.*
> 
> View attachment 416045
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States tends to produce lighter crude oil and import heavier crude oil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eia.gov
Click to expand...

Wrong!
*Crude oils have different quality characteristics*


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

edthecynic said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edthecynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> 
> And oil is not equal to oil. As far as I know the US makes mostly light oil.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil.*
> 
> View attachment 416045
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The United States tends to produce lighter crude oil and import heavier crude oil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eia.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong!
> *Crude oils have different quality characteristics*
Click to expand...


*Nope, US imports most of its light, sweet crude oil and produces mostly heavy, sour crude oils, like shake oil. *

Which part of your post (dated 2012) backed your claim?


----------

