# Who They Were/IDC



## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Announces Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Sgt. James A. McHale, 31, of Fairfield, Mont., died July 30 at the National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, Md., of wounds suffered July 22 in Taji, Iraq, when his vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device. He was assigned to the 40th Engineer Battalion, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Armored Division, Baumholder, Germany.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*


         The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

         Staff Sgt. Faoa L. Apineru, 31, of Yorba Linda, Calif., died July 2, 2007, from wounds sustained while supporting combat operations in Al Anbar province, Iraq. He was assigned to Headquarters Company, 23rd Marines, 4th Marine Division, Marine Forces Reserve. 

         Staff Sgt. Apineru was wounded on May 15, 2005. After his death on July 2, 2007, the initial medical examiner concluded that Apineru did not die from injuries sustained during his deployment, but a subsequent opinion by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology indicated that his death was a result of his injuries sustained in Iraq.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Spc. Seteria L. Brown, 22, of Orlando, Fla., died July 25 in Sharana, Afghanistan, of injuries sustained in a non-combat related incident.  She was assigned to the 62nd Engineer Battalion, 36th Engineer Brigade, Fort Hood Texas. 


            The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*


The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

Pfc. Ivan I. Wilson, 22, of Clearlake, Calif., died July 21 while supporting combat operations in Helmand province, Afghanistan.  He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Twentynine Palms, Calif.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

1st Lt. Nick A. Dewhirst, 25, of Onalaska, Wis., died July 20 in the Qalandar District of the Khost Province, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when his convoy came under attack by individuals using rocket propelled grenades and small arms fire. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 506th Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Staff Sgt. Danny P. Dupre, 28, of Lockport, La., died July 15 from wounds sustained while supporting combat operations in Al Anbar province, Iraq. He was assigned to 1st Battalion, 9th Marines, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Lejeune, N.C.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*
The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

1st Lt. Jason D. Mann, 29, of Woodlynne, N.J., died July 17 from a non-hostile incident in Helmand province, Afghanistan. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 6th Marines, 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit, II Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Lejeune, N.C.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Air Force Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of an airman who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Tech. Sgt. Jackie L. Larsen, 37, of Tacoma, Wash., died of natural causes July 17 at Balad Air Base, Iraq. She was assigned to the 9th Reconnaissance Wing, Beale Air Force Base, Calif.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

Pfc. Willington M. Rhoads, 23, of Las Vegas, Nev., died July 16 in Bagram, Afghanistan, of injuries suffered from a non-combat related incident. He was assigned to the 173rd Brigade Support Battalion (Airborne), Vicenza, Italy. 

The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Navy Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a sailor who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Aviation Boatswain Mate Third Class Petty officer Daniel R. Verbeke, 25, of Exton, Penn., died July 14 in Paoli, Penn. of complications from injuries he suffered in a flight deck accident in December 2005 while serving aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, CVN-71.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*


           The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Lance Cpl. Jeffery S. Stevenson, 20, of Newton, N.J., died July 13 from a non-hostile incident in Al Anbar province, Iraq. He was assigned to the 7th Engineer Support Battalion, 1st Marine Logistics Group, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Pendleton, Calif. 

           The incident is currently under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Staff Sgt. Jeremy D. Vrooman, 28, of Sioux Falls, S.D., died Jul 15 in Baghdad, Iraq, of wounds suffered when an improvised explosive device detonated while his unit was conducting combat operations in Kn'an, Iraq. He was assigned to the 2nd Squadron, 2nd Stryker Cavalry Regiment, 2nd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 1st Armored Division, Vilseck, Germany.


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## editec (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm sort of waiting for someone to come in and post something along the lines of: 

_"Yeah, so? People die in wars. It's a war. Who gives a shit?"_ 

 I've seen such sentiments posted in the thread where people are debating the number of civilian casualties.

I guess I have to presume they'll feel the same way about the above deaths, as well.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

editec said:


> I'm sort of waiting for someone to come in and post something along the lines of:
> 
> _"Yeah, so? People die in wars. It's a war. Who gives a shit?"_
> 
> ...



This is my 6-7th board where I post the names of our soldiers who have died in this fruitless war. and I have seen all types of responses.  From congratulatory to outright hatred for posting these names. they think I'm desecrating them.  I've been threatened with physical violence, (kinda hard on the web) and legal action.

I guess they don;t realize that these are news releases from the DoD. I do not edit in any way.  but I find it strange that supposed americans rail against free speech and the desemination of information.


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## AllieBaba (Aug 1, 2008)

Hmmm...let's discuss the fact that US casualties are the lowest they've been since the beginning of the war, and IRAQI CASUALTIES are down 75 percent.

Sounds to me like it's not a fruitless war, given the fact that Saddam is gone and Iraq is a much safer place to be today.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 1, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Hmmm...let's discuss the fact that US casualties are the lowest they've been since the beginning of the war, and IRAQI CASUALTIES are down 75 percent.
> 
> Sounds to me like it's not a fruitless war, given the fact that Saddam is gone and Iraq is a much safer place to be today.



Fruitless, because we shouldn't have gone to Iraq in the first place.  Fruitless because it isn't over yet.  Fruitless, well except for Haliburton, Bechtel and Blackwater amonmg others.  It has been very fruitful for them.

Not fruitful for our country, we've had to borrow money from communist China to pay for this little war and your great grandchildren are still going to be paying it off long after you're dead.

Fruitless, because 4128 American soldiers died for oil, so far.

Fruitless, because usama bin laden is still on the loose.

Fruitless, because even the Rand Corp. says law-enforcement, NOT military is the way to succeed against terrorism.

I could go on, but somehow I suspect you've already stopped reading because what I say is true and rush limpballs hasn't told you yet what to say.


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## editec (Aug 2, 2008)

Kanadesaga said:


> This is my 6-7th board where I post the names of our soldiers who have died in this fruitless war. and I have seen all types of responses. From congratulatory to outright hatred for posting these names. they think I'm desecrating them. I've been threatened with physical violence, (kinda hard on the web) and legal action.
> 
> I guess they don;t realize that these are news releases from the DoD. I do not edit in any way. but I find it strange that supposed americans rail against free speech and the desemination of information.


 

I don't object to you posting these, Kan.

Hell, as far as I'm concerned you can do it for every person killed there.

My previous observation still stands.

The psuedo macho types on this board like to remind us that people die in wars and that's why we should stop bitching about it.

You're just giving some of those statistics real identities.

Go for it!


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 5, 2008)

*DoD Announces Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Sgt. James A. McHale, 31, of Fairfield, Mont., died July 30 at the National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, Md., of wounds suffered July 22 in Taji, Iraq, when his vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device. He was assigned to the 40th Engineer Battalion, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Armored Division, Baumholder, Germany.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 5, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Spc. Kevin R. Dickson, 21, of Steelville, Mo., died Aug. 2 in Balad, Iraq, of injuries suffered in a non-combat related incident. He was assigned to the 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne), Group Support Battalion, Group Service Support Company, Fort Carson, Colo. 

The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 5, 2008)

DoD Identifies Army Casualties

The Department of Defense announced today the death of four soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Aug. 1 in Chowkay Valley, Afghanistan, from wounds sustained when their vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device. 

Killed were: 

Pfc. David J. Badie, 23, of Rockford, Ill., who was assigned to the Special Troops Battalion, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas. 

2nd Lt. Michael R. Girdano, 23, of Pennsylvania, who was assigned to the Special Troops Battalion, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas. 

Spc. William J. Mulvihill, 20, of Leavenworth, Kan., who was assigned to the Special Troops Battalion, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas. 

Pvt. Jair De Jesus Garcia, 29, of Chatsworth, Calif., who was assigned to the 6th Squadron, 4th Cavalry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 5, 2008)

DoD Identifies Army Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Spc. Andre D. Mitchell, 25, of Elmont, N.Y., died July 31 in Mosul, Iraq, of injuries sustained in a vehicle accident. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, Fort Hood, Texas. 

The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 5, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Pfc. Jennifer L. Cole, 34, of American Canyon, Calif., died Aug. 2 in Bayji, Iraq, of injuries suffered in a non-combat related incident. She was assigned to the 426th Support Battalion, 1st Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky. 

The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 5, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

Sgt. Ryan P. Baumann, 24, of Great Mills, Md., died Aug. 1, on Route Alaska, Afghanistan, of wounds sustained when his vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device. He was assigned to the 4th Battalion, 320th Field Artillery Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 7, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Spc. Ronald A. Schmidt, 18, of Newton, Kan., died Aug. 3 in Balad, Iraq, of injuries sustained in a vehicle accident in Ashraf, Iraq, on Aug. 2. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 161st Field Artillery, Kansas Army National Guard, Kingman, Kan. 

The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 7, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualties*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of two soldiers who were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. They died Aug. 4 in Baghdad, Iraq, of wounds suffered when debris from an improvised explosive device detonation on an overpass fell onto their vehicle. They were assigned to the 38th Military Police Company, 38th Infantry Division, Indiana Army National Guard, Danville, Ind. 

Killed were: 

Sgt. Gary M. Henry, 34, of Indianapolis, Ind. 

Spc. Jonathan D. Menke, 22, of Madison, Ind.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 7, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

Capt. Garrett T. Lawton, 31, of Charleston, W.V., died Aug. 4 while supporting combat operations in Herat province, Afghanistan. He was assigned to U.S. Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, Camp Lejeune, N.C.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 7, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Pvt. Timothy J. Hutton, 21, of Dillon, Mont., died Aug. 4 in Baghdad, Iraq, of injuries suffered in a non-combat related incident. He was assigned to the 54th Engineer Battalion, 18th Engineer Brigade, Bamberg, Germany. 
The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Aug 21, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

            Lance Cpl. Travis M. Stottlemyer, 20, of Hatfield, Pa., died Aug. 17 as a result of a non-hostile incident in Manama, Bahrain. He was assigned to the 3rd Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team Company, Marine Corps Security Forces, Norfolk, Va. 

            The incident is currently under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

	The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

	Staff Sgt. David L. Paquet, 26, of Rising Sun, Md., died Aug. 20 at Combat Outpost Vegas, Jalalabad, Afghanistan, of undetermined causes while conduting a patrol.  He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.

	The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

            Staff Sgt. Brian E. Studer, 28, of Ramsey, Minn., died Aug. 22 in Ghazni, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when the improvised explosive device he was attempting to deactivate detonated. He was assigned to the 720th Explosive Ordnance Disposal Company, 28th Transportation Battalion, 18th Military Police Brigade, Mannheim, Germany.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Sgt. 1st Class George Stanciel, 40, of Greenwood, Miss., died Aug. 19 at Forward Operating Base Gary Owen, Iraq, of wounds suffered when the base came under mortar attack. He was assigned to the 370th Engineer Company, 54th Engineer Battalion, 18th Engineer Brigade, Bamberg, Germany.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Sgt. Nickolas Lee Hopper, 27, of Montrose, Ill., died Sept. 8, 2007 from wounds received while supporting combat operations in Anbar province, Iraq, on June 20, 2005.  Hoppers final autopsy concluded his death was a result of wounds received in Iraq; however, Hopper was not previously identified as an OIF casualty. He was assigned to the 2nd Low Altitude Air Defense Battalion, Marine Air Control Group-28, 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing, II Marine Expeditionary Force, Cherry Point, N.C.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Sgt. 1st Class David J. Todd Jr., 36, of Marrero, La., died Aug. 20 in Bala Morghab, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when his unit was attacked by enemy forces using small arms fire. He was assigned to the Afghan Regional Security Integration Command-West, Herat, Afghanistan.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*


            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Spc. Michael L. Gonzalez, 20, of Spotswood, N.J., died Aug. 28 in Baghdad, of wounds suffered by an improvised explosive device. He was assigned to the 340th Military Police Company, Fort Totten, N.Y.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Sgt. David K. Cooper, 25, of Williamsburg, Ky., died Aug. 27 in Baghdad, of wounds suffered in Qadasiyah, Iraq, when his dismounted patrol came under small arms fire. He was assigned to Forward Support Company, 4th Battalion, 42nd Field Artillery, 1st Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

Pfc Tan Q. Ngo, 20, of Beaverton, Ore., died Aug. 27 in Kandahar, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered in Zabul Province, Afghanistan, when his mounted patrol received small arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 4th Infantry Regiment, Hohenfels, Germany.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Spc. Carlo E. Alfonso, 23, of Spokane, Wash., died on Aug. 26 of injuries sustained when his vehicle struck an improvised explosive device in Sadr City, Iraq.  He was assigned to the 40th Engineer Battalion, 2d Brigade Combat Team, 1st Armored Division, Baumholder, Germany.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Spc. Jorge L. Feliz Nieve, 26, of Queens Village, N.Y., died on Aug. 28 of injuries sustained from a vehicle incident in Mosul, Iraq.  He was assigned to the 3rd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, Fort Hood, Texas.
            The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Spc. Steven J. Fitzmorris, 26, of Columbia, Mo., died on Aug. 25 of wounds suffered from enemy fire while on a dismounted patrol in Adhamiyah, Iraq.  He was assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 29th Field Artillery Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, Fort Carson, Colo.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Navy Casualty*

           The Department of Defense announced today the death of a sailor who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Petty Officer 1st Class Joshua Harris, 36,of Lexington, N.C., died Aug. 30 from injuries sustained while conducting combat operations in Afghanistan.  Harris was temporarily forward deployed from his assignment at Naval Special Warfare Development Group, Dam Neck, Va.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Pfc. Patrick W. May, 22, of Jamestown, N.Y., died Sept. 2 in Baghdad, Iraq, of injuries sufferedfrom a non-combat related incident. He was assigned to the Division Special Troops Battalion, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry), Fort Drum, N.Y.

            The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

1st Lt. Nicholas A. Madrazo, 25, of Bothell, Wash., died Sept. 9 while supporting combat operations in Parwan province, Afghanistan. He was assigned to Combat Logistics Battalion 37, 3rd Marine Logistics Group, III Marine Expeditionary Force, Okinawa, Japan.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

Capt. Jesse Melton III, 29, of Randallstown, Md., died Sept. 9 while supporting combat operations in Parwan province, Afghanistan. He was assigned to Headquarters Battery, 12th Marines, 3rd Marine Division, III Marine Expeditionary Force, Okinawa, Japan.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Navy Casualty*

           The Department of Defense announced today the death of a sailor who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Senior Chief Petty Officer John Wayne Marcum, 34, of Flushing, Mich., died Sept. 12 from injuries sustained while conducting combat operations in Afghanistan Sept. 11. Marcum was temporarily forward deployed from his assignment at Naval Special Warfare Development Group, Dam Neck, Va.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Navy Casualty*

           The Department of Defense announced today the death of a sailor who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Chief Petty Officer (select) Jason Richard Freiwald, 30, of Armada, Mich., died Sept. 12 from injuries sustained while conducting combat operations in Afghanistan Sept. 11. Freiwald was temporarily forward deployed from his assignment at Naval Special Warfare Development Group, Dam Neck, Va.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

        The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Spc. Marques I. Knight, 24, of San Juan Capistrano, Calif., died Sept. 6 in Aliabad, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when he received small arms fire while on dismounted patrol. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Sgt. 1st Class Daniel R. Sexton, 53, of Wentzville, Mo., died Sept. 10 at Joint Base Balad, Iraq, of injuries sustained in a non-combat related incident. He was assigned to the 164th Military Police Company, Fort Richardson, Alaska.

            The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

            Chief Warrant Officer Michael Slebodnik, 39, of Gibsonia, Pa., died Sept. 11 at Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered near Forward Operating Base Nagil, Afghanistan, when the aircraft he was piloting received enemy fire. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 17th Cavalry Regiment, 101st Combat Aviation Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), Fort Campbell, Ky.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualties*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of two soldiers who were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. They died Sept. 14 in Tunnis, Iraq, of wounds sustained in a non-hostile incident.

            The soldiers were assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 7th Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.

            Killed were:

            Staff Sgt. Darris J. Dawson, 24, of Pensacola, Fla.

            Sgt. Wesley R. Durbin, 26, of Hurst, Texas.

            The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Pvt. Michael W. Murdock, 22, of Chocowinity, N.C., died Sept. 11 at Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered at Combat Outpost Lybert, Afghanistan, when he was struck by enemy fire. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 6th Field Artillery Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Lt. Col. Ralph J. Marino, 46, of Houston, Pa., died Sept 14 at Camp Buehring, Kuwait, from a non-combat related illness. He was assigned to U.S. Army Central Command, Camp Arifjan, Kuwait.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Navy Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a sailor who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Hospital Corpsman 3rd Class Eichmann A. Strickland, 23, of Arlington, Wash., died Sept. 9 from injuries suffered when the vehicle he was driving hit an improvised explosive device in Afghanya Valley, Afghanistan.

            Strickland was assigned to Combat Service Support Det. 36, Iwakuni, Japan. He was a member of a US Marine embedded Training Team deployed to Afghan Regional Security Integration Command Central.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

            Pfc. Leonard J. Gulczynski I, 19, of Carol Stream, Ill., died Sept. 17 in Baghdad, Iraq, of injuries sustained when his vehicle was involved in an accident. He was assigned to the 610th Engineer Support Company, 14th Engineer Battalion, 555th Engineer Brigade, Fort Lewis, Wash.

            The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

            Capt. Darrick D. Wright, 37, of Nashville, Tenn., died Sept. 17 in Baghdad, Iraq, of a non-combat related illness. He was assigned to the 926th Engineer Brigade, Montgomery, Ala.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

           The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Lt. Col. James L. Wiley, 46, of North Bend, Ore., died Sept. 18 at Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan, of injuries sustained in a non-combat related incident. He was assigned to the 27th Brigade Combat Team, New York Army National Guard, Syracuse, N.Y.
The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualties*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of seven soldiers who were supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. They died Sept. 18 when the CH-47 Chinook helicopter they were in went down in the vicinity of Tallil, Iraq.

            Killed were:

            Chief Warrant Officer Corry A. Edwards, 38, of Kennedale, Texas, who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, Texas Army National Guard, Grand Prairie, Texas.

            Sgt. Daniel M. Eshbaugh, 43, of Norman, Okla., who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, Oklahoma National Guard, Lexington, Okla.

            Sgt. Anthony L. Mason, 37, of Springtown, Texas, who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, Texas Army National Guard, Grand Prairie, Texas.

            1st Sgt. Julio C. Ordonez, 54, of San Antonio, who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, Texas Army National Guard, Grand Prairie, Texas.

            Chief Warrant Officer Brady J. Rudolf, 37, of Oklahoma City, who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, Oklahoma National Guard, Lexington, Okla.

            Cpl. Michael E. Thompson, 23, of Harrah, Okla., who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, Oklahoma National Guard, Lexington, Okla.

            1st Lt. Robert Vallejo II, 28, of Richland Hills, Texas, who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 149th Aviation, 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, Texas Army National Guard, Grand Prairie, Texas.

            The incident is under investigation.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Air Force Casualty*

             The Department of Defense announced today the death of an airman who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Maj. Rodolfo I. Rodriguez, 34, of El Paso, Texas, died Sept. 20 in Islamabad, Pakistan, of wounds suffered from an improvised explosive device. He was assigned to the 86th Construction & Training Squadron, Ramstein Air Base, Germany.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualities*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of four soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Sept. 17 in Gerdia Seria, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when their vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device.

            Killed were:

            Sgt. Joshua W. Harris, 21, of Romeoville, Ill., who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion 122nd Field Artillery, Illinois Army National Guard, Robbins, Ill. 

            Capt. Bruce E. Hays, 42, of Cheyenne, Wyo., who was assigned to the Wyoming Joint Forces Headquarters, Wyoming Army National Guard, Cheyenne, Wyo.

            1st Lt. Mohsin A. Naqvi, 26, of Newburgh, N.Y., who was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 11th Infantry, Fort Benning, Ga.

            Staff Sgt. Jason A. Vazquez, 24, of Chicago, Ill., who was assigned to the 2nd Battalion 122nd Field Artillery, Illinois Army National Guard, Sycamore, Ill.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Staff Sgt. Brandon W. Farley, 30, of Grand Prairie, Texas, died Sept. 18 at Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan, of wounds sustained Sept. 17 when his mounted patrol was attacked by enemy forces using small arms and rocket-propelled grenades in Able Monti, Afghanistan. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.


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## pegwinn (Sep 29, 2008)

FWIIW, I don't have any beef with publishing the names of the dead. Assuming you are respectful of them even though you oppose the war, then all is well.

I will note this. Considering the time involved, and the operational tempo, our military casualties are light compared to previous wars. That doesn't mean that any death is being cheapened. Instead it means that we are actually doing well all things considered.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Marine Casualty*

             The Department of Defense announced today the death of a Marine who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. 

            Sgt. Jerome C. Bell Jr., 29, of Auburn, N.Y., died Sept. 19 while supporting combat operations in Farah province, Afghanistan. He was assigned to 2nd Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, Twentynine Palms, Calif.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualties*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of two soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Sept. 20 in the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when their vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device. They were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.

Killed were:

Staff Sgt. Nathan M. Cox, 32, of Walcott, Iowa

Pvt. Joseph F. Gonzales, 18, of Tucson, Ariz.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Navy Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a sailor who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

            Cryptologic Technician Third Class Petty Officer Matthew J. OBryant, 22, of Duluth, Ga., died September 20 in the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan. O'Bryant was assigned to the Navy Information Operations Command Maryland, Fort Meade, Md.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

            Staff Sgt. Matthew J. Taylor, 25, of Charleston, S.C., died Sept. 21 in Baghdad, Iraq, of wounds suffered when he received small arms fire during dismounted operations. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 30th Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry), located at Fort Polk, La.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Capt. Bruno G. Desolenni, 32, of Crescent City, Calif., died Sept. 20 in Kandahar, Afghanistan, of wounds sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his vehicle. He was assigned to the Joint Forces Headquarters, Element Training Team, Oregon Army National Guard.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 29, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Chaplain (Col.) Sidney J. Marceaux Jr., 69, of Beaumont, Texas, died Sept 14 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Washington, D.C., from a non-combat related illness. Following evacuation from Camp Arifjan, Kuwait, he was assigned to the Warrior Transition Brigade, Walter Reed Army Medical Center.


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## Kanadesaga (Sep 30, 2008)

pegwinn said:


> FWIIW, I don't have any beef with publishing the names of the dead. Assuming you are respectful of them even though you oppose the war, then all is well.
> 
> I will note this. Considering the time involved, and the operational tempo, our military casualties are light compared to previous wars. That doesn't mean that any death is being cheapened. Instead it means that we are actually doing well all things considered.



Because people died in massive numbers of TB in the past is no reason to accept a minimum number of deaths now of TB.

And we are not doing well.  USL is still on the loose, thank you retard from Texas for letting him get away.  the Taliban is stronger than ever.  Pakistan is  firing on American soldiers. Iran is still on the horizon.  Considering how well we could have done after 9/11, it is a disaster of historic and almost biblical proportions.


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## pegwinn (Sep 30, 2008)

Kanadesaga said:


> Because people died in massive numbers of TB in the past is no reason to accept a minimum number of deaths now of TB.



Apples and Oranges. But you knew that...



Kanadesaga said:


> Because people died in massive numbers of TB in the past is no reason to accept a minimum number of deaths now of TB.
> 
> And we are not doing well.  USL is still on the loose, thank you retard from Texas for letting him get away.  the Taliban is stronger than ever.  Pakistan is  firing on American soldiers. Iran is still on the horizon.  Considering how well we could have done after 9/11, it is a disaster of historic and almost biblical proportions.



I think I see where you disconnected from what I meant. What I wrote was:



> Instead it means that we are actually doing well all things considered.



What I should have written was *"our military is"* rather than *"that we are"*. I make no excuse for fuck ups on the part of our oh so honorable government which sets the strategic goals and in some cases the operational ones as well.

However, our military is doing a superlative job considering the restraints placed upon them by our friends and neighbors who exercise civilian control over their betters.

Sorry about that.


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## Kanadesaga (Oct 1, 2008)

pegwinn said:


> Apples and Oranges. But you knew that...



the analogy is accurate. a low american body count is only indicative of a low body count.  Nothing else.





> I think I see where you disconnected from what I meant. What I wrote was:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The greatest constraint was having a retard as CnC.  How any military man can defend this loser of a human being is beyond me.  You realize because of his lack of forsight and concern, thousands of american soldiers are dead.  Every IED death is laid directly on the head of bush/cheney/rummy.  They choose  recklessness and imprudenceinstead of careful planning and proper equipment for the job at hand.  but hey haliburton got their $10 for a bottle of water and a dry turkey sandwich/ per soldier on the push to Baghdad.  so it's all good, yes?


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## Kanadesaga (Oct 1, 2008)

*DoD Identifies Army Casualty*

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

Spc. Christopher T. Fox, 21, of Memphis, Tenn., died Sept. 29 in Adhamiyah, Iraq, of wounds suffered when he encountered small arms fire while on patrol. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 68th Armor Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, Fort Carson, Colo.


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## Kanadesaga (Oct 1, 2008)

DoD Identifies Army Casualities

            The Department of Defense announced today the death of three soldiers who were supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. They died Sept. 29 in Yakhchal, Afghanistan, from wounds suffered when their vehicle encountered an improvised explosive device during mounted operations.   They were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C. 

            Killed were: 

            Capt. Richard G. Cliff Jr., 29, of Mount Pleasant, S.C.

            Sgt. 1st Class Jamie S. Nicholas, 32, of Maysel, W.Va.

            Sgt. 1st Class Gary J. Vasquez, 33, of Round Lake, Ill.


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## pegwinn (Oct 1, 2008)

Kanadesaga said:


> the analogy is accurate. a low american body count is only indicative of a low body count.  Nothing else. Nice try. But that isn't true and I suspect you know that. Considering the mission a low body count indicates success and competence..
> 
> The greatest constraint was having a retard as CnC.  How any military man can defend this loser of a human being is beyond me.  I am not defending him. You realize because of his lack of forsight and concern, thousands of american soldiers are dead.  So which is it? Was Iraq a preplanned war and 911 a convienient event or did 911 lead to Iraq and was a lack of foresight. It can't be both ways. Every IED death is laid directly on the head of bush/cheney/rummy.  They choose  recklessness and imprudenceinstead of careful planning and proper equipment for the job at hand.  What proper equipment would that be? but hey haliburton got their $10 for a bottle of water and a dry turkey sandwich/ per soldier on the push to Baghdad.  so it's all good, yes? Not really, I don't approve of allowing amatuer civilians in a combat zone be they contractors, clergy, journalists or politicians. They get in the way and if they get hurt someone will blame my guys.



*


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## Kanadesaga (Oct 4, 2008)

pegwinn said:


> Originally Posted by Kanadesaga
> the analogy is accurate. a low american body count is only indicative of a low body count. Nothing else.
> 
> 
> ...



I will agree on the contractors. Especially mercs, they have no business in a war zone.  Let them go try to conquer african nations or whatever.  I will stand for the Fourth Estate, perhaps if a journalist had been present, Haditha may never have happened.  Of course, if the journalists had done their job to begin with, we wouldn't be in Iraq because everyone would have known what BS it all was.  but that is another discussion.


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## pegwinn (Oct 4, 2008)

Kanadesaga said:


> I will agree on the contractors. Especially mercs, they have no business in a war zone.  Let them go try to conquer african nations or whatever.  I will stand for the Fourth Estate, perhaps if a journalist had been present, Haditha may never have happened.  Of course, if the journalists had done their job to begin with, we wouldn't be in Iraq because everyone would have known what BS it all was.  but that is another discussion.



Again, what equipment? Go ahead and pretend I am stupid and lay it out for me.

Haditha? Perhaps you haven't noticed the Courts Martial results? I stand by the original statement vis a vis civilian amateurs in a combat zone. Had Geraldo been in my unit he would have been beaten severely before being kicked out of the area.

And, you may wish to do some research on the operational evolution of maneuver v. attrition based warfare especially as it relates to the non engagement you mentioned. FWIIW I concur that covert ops should have been occurring all along.


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## Kanadesaga (Oct 5, 2008)

pegwinn said:


> Again, what equipment? Go ahead and pretend I am stupid and lay it out for me.



Please.




> Haditha? Perhaps you haven't noticed the Courts Martial results? I stand by the original statement vis a vis civilian amateurs in a combat zone. Had Geraldo been in my unit he would have been beaten severely before being kicked out of the area.



You think military courts get it right any better than civilian ones? You think this wasn't a predetermined decision?  Again, please.  That is quite the way to uphold and defend the Constitution, buy physically assualting a member of the fourth estate.  How mature.






> And, you may wish to do some research on the operational evolution of maneuver v. attrition based warfare especially as it relates to the non engagement you mentioned.



Yea, I'll get right on that.




> FWIIW I concur that covert ops should have been occurring all along.



Except there no profit in doing the job correctly.  And therein lies the rub.  For it was never about getting the job done, it was about profit.


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## pegwinn (Oct 5, 2008)

Kanadesaga said:


> Please.


Please nothing. You are the one talking about not having the right equipment. In my case I have close, personal experience with the equipment in use prior to my retirement in 2003. Thus I am qualified to either concur or rebut your opinion. But if you are unwilling to discuss it, so be it. Just doesn't make you look credible.


Kanadesaga said:


> You think military courts get it right any better than civilian ones? You think this wasn't a predetermined decision?  Again, please.  That is quite the way to uphold and defend the Constitution, buy physically assualting a member of the fourth estate.  How mature.


I trust a military court martial far more than a civilian criminal court. Now, on the Geraldos of your esteemed 4th Estate. They, and you apparently, have a might high opinion of themselves that doesn't stand up to critical scrutiny. Geraldo was literally disclosing his units position on the air. The beating isn't immature, it's to demonstrate that If you deliberately place my Marines at risk you will get beaten down. Stupidity has consequences in the field. Remember, the press is no more exalted than a ditch digger or a steelworker. They live by the motto "if it bleeds, it leads". In fact, they and the politicians are held to a far lower standard than the military that serves them. 


Kanadesaga said:


> Yea, I'll get right on that.


Again, you brought up non-engagement. I was once very well versed in operational and tactical issues. You have an opportunity to actually learn something. I'm not bothering to try and change your opinion. But, you might as well seek a form of credibility by being reasonably conversant in the "whys' of this or that.


Kanadesaga said:


> Except there no profit in doing the job correctly.  And therein lies the rub.  For it was never about getting the job done, it was about profit.


Another assertion without sources. You are very good at talking points. Here is your opportunity to talk about those points. Whatever will you do now?


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## Kanadesaga (Oct 5, 2008)

pegwinn said:


> Please nothing. You are the one talking about not having the right equipment. In my case I have close, personal experience with the equipment in use prior to my retirement in 2003. Thus I am qualified to either concur or rebut your opinion. But if you are unwilling to discuss it, so be it. Just doesn't make you look credible.



You were Marine?  Your unit may have had all the equipment it needed.  Other's obviously did not.  From proper body armor, to properly armored vehicles.  It was in all the papers, surprised you hadn't heard.







> I trust a military court martial far more than a civilian criminal court. Now, *on the Geraldos of your esteemed 4th Estate*. They, and you apparently, have a might high opinion of themselves that doesn't stand up to critical scrutiny. Geraldo was literally disclosing his units position on the air. The beating isn't immature, it's to demonstrate that If you deliberately place my Marines at risk you will get beaten down. Stupidity has consequences in the field. Remember, the press is no more exalted than a ditch digger or a steelworker. They live by the motto "if it bleeds, it leads". In fact, they and the politicians are held to a far lower standard than the military that serves them.




I see by the phrase I've highlighted that you have a low opinoin of the press. Since you label all  by their lowest common denominator.  Were I to do that, of say, military personnel, I'm sure many a sunshine patriot would get their panties in a bunch.  Calling me unpatriotic because I point out that some in the military are homicidal maniacs.  I do not label all in the military that way.  Just those that are homicidal maniacs.




> Again, you brought up non-engagement.



As an alternative explanation of a recent low american body count. You asserted that something else was the defintive reason.




> I was once very well versed in operational and tactical issues.




Forgotten so much? So soon?



> You have an opportunity to actually learn something. I'm not bothering to try and change your opinion. But, you might as well seek a form of credibility by being reasonably conversant in the "whys' of this or that.



I learn new things all the time, everyday in fact. Military tactics is not a current requirement of my education at this point, thank you.






> Another assertion without sources. You are very good at talking points. Here is your opportunity to talk about those points. Whatever will you do now?



You want I should post a link with every statement I make?  Shall you do likewise?  I am well versed in current topics.  The information I disseminate is widely and readily available. If you have chosen not to partake in the information superhighway at your disposal, I am not responsible for that deficit on your part.  Nor is it my responsibility to educate you.  You doubt my veracity, you go find sources to dispute me. Otherwise accept the truth of what I say.


Whatever shall _you _do now?


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## pegwinn (Oct 5, 2008)

Kanadesaga said:


> You were Marine?  Your unit may have had all the equipment it needed.  Other's obviously did not.  From proper body armor, to properly armored vehicles.  It was in all the papers, surprised you hadn't heard.



Heh, in all the papers, lol. That my friend is what you get for reading the papers. Had you done some simple investigation into military procurement you would have seen that the body armor was new and being fielded to the units that needed it the most. My unit had it. Other units were getting it. Thanks to public pressure, troops are getting over-armored. Over armor is no more effective than not armored. As to the HMMWV and various trucks..... those are logistics vehicles, contracted and produced long before the war. Logistics vehicles are intended to move logistal supplies. Ambush is an assumed risk.



Kanadesaga said:


> I see by the phrase I've highlighted that you have a low opinoin of the press. Since you label all  by their lowest common denominator.  Were I to do that, of say, military personnel, I'm sure many a sunshine patriot would get their panties in a bunch.  Calling me unpatriotic because I point out that some in the military are homicidal maniacs.  I do not label all in the military that way.  Just those that are homicidal maniacs.



It won't work. There are set standards that the military must adhere to... or else. There are no standards for journalists. If they actually made a genuine effort to fairly and accurately report the facts, minus thier own bias, I might have a bit more respect. 



Kanadesaga said:


> As an alternative explanation of a recent low american body count. You asserted that something else was the defintive reason.



And invited you to discuss it. You've declined. So noted.



Kanadesaga said:


> Forgotten so much? So soon?



Nah. Things change. The concepts are still there. The techniques (a series of indiviual steps designed to accomplish a tactical fundamental) change to evolve to the current operation. That is what I am no longer an expert on.  But again, I see that you are attempting to disengage. So be it.



Kanadesaga said:


> I learn new things all the time, everyday in fact. Military tactics is not a current requirement of my education at this point, thank you.



Noted. Why would you wish to learn of things that may impact your decision makeing or opinion forming process? Me, I like to challenge my own perceptions. That's only one reason I try to engage others in conversations such as this. 



Kanadesaga said:


> You want I should post a link with every statement I make?  Shall you do likewise?  I am well versed in current topics.  The information I disseminate is widely and readily available. If you have chosen not to partake in the information superhighway at your disposal, I am not responsible for that deficit on your part.  Nor is it my responsibility to educate you.  You doubt my veracity, you go find sources to dispute me. Otherwise accept the truth of what I say.



You've yet to ask. You simply offer an assertion that you cannot prove and in order to dispute it you ask me to prove a negative. This tells me that you are not interested in any discussion that might challenge your position. Noted.



Kanadesaga said:


> Whatever shall _you _do now?



I shall respect your obvious wish to disengage. Perhaps on other topics we will do a better job. Ciao.


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## Gunny (Oct 13, 2008)

editec said:


> I'm sort of waiting for someone to come in and post something along the lines of:
> 
> _"Yeah, so? People die in wars. It's a war. Who gives a shit?"_
> 
> ...




Instead you have me coming in and closing the thread.  I've seen wingnuts play this game on other boards.  They can continue to do so.  Not here.


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