# Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian



## aris2chat (Mar 22, 2016)

History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam

*Archaeologists Discover that Earliest Known Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian*


*www.ancient-origins.net*/news-history-archaeology/archaeologists-discover-earliest-known-arabic-writing-was-penned-christian-020778



21 March, 2016 - 23:51 Sam Bostrom
(Read the article on one page)

The oldest known Arabic writing found in Saudi Arabia, from ca. 470 AD belong to a Christian context and predates the advent of Islam with 150 years.

In December 2015, researchers from a French-Saudi expedition studying rock inscriptions in southern Saudi Arabia published a 100-page-long report in France’s Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres that reported that the oldest Arabic text, carved on a large rectangular stone that was found in Saudi Arabia, is simply of a name, “Thawban (son of) Malik,” decorated with a Christian cross. The same cross systematically appears on the other similar stelae dating more or less to the same period.

The discovery is sensational since it shows that the origins of the Arabic alphabet used to write the Koran belongs to a Christian context. This pre-Islamic alphabet is also called Nabatean Arabic, because it evolved from the script used by the Nabateans, the once-powerful nation that built Petra and dominated the trade routes in the southern Levant and northern Arabia before being annexed by the Romans in the early 2nd century.







_Example of Nabatean script to the god Qasiu. Basalt, 1st century AD. Found in Sia in the Hauran, Southern Syria. (__Public Domain__)_

The ancient text is a legacy of a once flourishing Christian community in the area also linked to the rise of an ancient Jewish kingdom that ruled over much of what is today Yemen and Saudi Arabia


Oldest Arabic inscription provides missing link between Nabatean and Arabic writing
Are the Reclusive Shihuh People of Musandam the Original Arabians?
*Christians in the Desert*
The Muslim tradition preserved in the book of Koran portrays the pre-Islamic region as chaotic and filled with unrest that Mohammed manages to unify with the help of the powerful message of Islam

However, the Islamic text makes no mention of the numerous Christian and Jewish communities across the Saudi peninsula that flourished during the days of Mohammed.

Recent studies of works by ancient Christians and Muslim records have re-shaped our image of the societies that existed in the region and shed new light on the complex history of the region before the advent of Islam. One of the important kingdoms in Arabia at the time was the Jewish kingdom of Himyar.






_A bronze statue of Dhamar Ali Yahbur II, a Himyarite King who probably reigned in late 3rd or early 4th century AD. Displayed in Sana'a National Museum. (__CC BY 2.0__)_

The kingdom was founded in the 2nd century AD, and around 380 AD the elites of the kingdom of Himyar converted to some form of Judaism. By the 4th century,

Himyar had become an important player in the struggle for regional power. The Kingdom of Himyar’s headquarters was situated in what is today Yemen, from where its expansionist rulers led a series of campaigns conquering into its neighboring states, including the legendary biblical kingdom of Sheba.


The Qasr al-Farid, the Lonely Castle of the Nabataeans
Is there truth to the Bedouin Legend of the Great River in the Desert?
Royal inscriptions found in the Saudi capital of Riyadhand and Bir Hima, north of Yemen, attest how the Himyarite kingdom during the 5th century expanded its influence into central Arabia, the Persian Gulf area, and into the region of Mecca and Medina, known as Hijaz.






_Pre-Islamic rock art of Arabia at Bir Hima, carved into the eastern foothills of the Asir Mountains of Saudi Arabia. (__CC BY 2.0__)_

According to ancient Christian sources, the Christians of the nearby city of Najran suffered a wave of persecution by the Himyarites in 470. The name of Thawban son of Malik appears on eight inscriptions, along with the names of other Christians. The French experts believe these inscriptions are a form of commemoration of Thawban and his fellow Christians that were martyred as they refused to convert to Judaism.

The researchers believe that the Christians choice of the early Arabic script to memorialize their comrades was an act of resistance that stood in sharp contrast to the inscriptions left by Himyarite rulers in their native Sabaean. To adopt a new writing system was a way of manifesting a separation from Himyar, and at the same time, a means to approach the rest of the Arabs to unify against their common enemy.






_A portion of a war scene from the Himyarite era. (__CC BY SA 3.0__)_

The growing resistance and outside pressure eventually brought down Himyar. In the years around 500, it fell to Christian invaders from the Ethiopian kingdom of Aksum. For the next century, Himyar was a Christian kingdom that continued to exert control over Arabia. During the latter half of the 6th century, one of its rulers, Abraha, marched through Bir Hima, conquering, Yathrib, the desert oasis that 70 years later would become known as Medina – The City of the Prophet.

_Featured Image: A photo showing some stelae found with Arabic inscriptions. Source: Saudi Commission for Tourism and Antiquities (SCTA)_

By Sam Bostrom


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## aris2chat (Mar 22, 2016)

Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.


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## Pogo (Mar 22, 2016)

You do understand that "Arabic" is not a religion --- right?


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## aris2chat (Mar 22, 2016)

Pogo said:


> You do understand that "Arabic" is not a religion --- right?



they obsess about their religions


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## Pogo (Mar 22, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> Pogo said:
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None that I've ever met.

And in any case, if said writing was found before Islam got invented ---- then it could not possibly have been written by a Muslim ---- could it?

Arabic is a _language_.  And a culture, or more correctly group of cultures..  Not a religion.  Those would have developed long before Islam, just as English and German and French and Spanish etc developed before they got Christianized.


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## irosie91 (Mar 23, 2016)

Pogo said:


> You do understand that "Arabic" is not a religion --- right?



of course Arabic is not a religion----it was spoken by lots of people but INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH-----muslims have developed a kind of misapprehension 
that ARABIC IS MUSLIM.     There are lots of historic figures called  "muslim" 
in the Islamic version of history simply because they wrote in Arabic.   Did
anyone say Arabic is a  "religion"


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## Pogo (Mar 23, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> Pogo said:
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The bizarre comparison in the OP between "Arabic writing" (which is a language) and "Christian" (which is a religion) heavily implies that, yes.  Obviously an Arab may be a Muslim or not, and certainly was not before Islam existed. And just as obviously a Christian may or may not be an Arab.  The two entities have nothing to do with each other, so what the point of this thread is remains an unknown.



irosie91 said:


> muslims have developed a kind of misapprehension that ARABIC IS MUSLIM



Again, no idea where you're pulling this from, but no Arab I've ever met ever claimed or implied that, even when they were teaching me Arabic phrases.   We spoke much (in English or French) about the language, but never about the religion.  Moreover that would be impossible, as it would mean that before Islam, Arabs didn't speak. Which is absurd.


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## aris2chat (Mar 23, 2016)

Many muslims like to believe history began with islam.
It does not matter that Mohammad was taught about christianity and jesus by a monk, or the torah and psalms by rabbis.
Anything before Islam was jahiliyyah, period of ignorance


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## Pogo (Mar 23, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> Many muslims like to believe history began with islam.



--- Link?


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## aris2chat (Mar 23, 2016)

Pogo said:


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ibadurrahman: Jahiliyyah Period: Arabs before Islam

Calendar begins with the hajj.
Only a handful of arabs, apart from jews and christians could read or write.
The final destruction of the great library was at the hands of muslims in 642 on orders of Omar.
Muslims have systematically destroyed may things before islam, erasing all history.
We still see the destruction of history in afghanistan, iraq, syria and Israel
Most of the muslim world's history was buried in the sand for millennia.

Everything before Islam is irrelevant or ignorant


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## Coyote (Mar 23, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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 Aren't many religions kind of ethnocentric like that?  Nothing matters before the start of theirs?  Destroy pagan idols and blasphemous imagery? There is a long sad history of that and it's not just Islam - Islam is the most recent acter on the stage.

Sad though, to see so much history, that had been protected for so long (by Muslims no less) - destroyed by such evil as ISIS, Talibon.


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## Pogo (Mar 23, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> Calendar begins with the hajj.
> Only a handful of arabs, apart from jews and christians could read or write.
> The final destruction of the great library was at the hands of muslims in 642 on orders of Omar.
> Muslims have systematically destroyed may things before islam, erasing all history.
> ...



As Coyote noted, it was Muslim adademia that kept ancient knowledge ALIVE while Europe was bumbilng around looking for "witches".



aris2chat said:


> Calendar begins with the hajj.
> ...
> 
> Everything before Islam is irrelevant or ignorant



 And --- what event does our calendar begin with?  Even for non-Christians?


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## Coyote (Mar 23, 2016)

Pogo said:


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Yup...AD and BC.....


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## Sunni Man (Mar 23, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> Everything before Islam is irrelevant or ignorant


Leave it to Ass2chat to try and twist anything to do with muslims.

The word, "Jahiliyyah, (period of ignorance), didn't mean that everyone was stupid before Islam came on the scene. 

It meant that Arabs (pagan, christians, jews) were engaging in acts that were an abomination to god. Such as infanticide of baby girls and other barbaric practices.   ......


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## irosie91 (Mar 23, 2016)

Pogo said:


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you have not met enough arabs or muslims in general.    I have described a naïve
but prevalent misapprehension amongst muslims world wide---which is----people who spoke or wrote in Arabic were------"ISLAMIC"      This particular misapprehension is actually taught to school children in muslim schools.   Another ---somewhat obscure idea is that Hebrew as a language is a dialect of Arabic.   
It is an ethnocentric concept


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## irosie91 (Mar 23, 2016)

Coyote said:


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Yup----Europe became LITERATE much much later than did the
middle and far east.   The muslims became literate much much later
than did the non muslims of the middle and far east---MUCH MUCH MUCH
much later.       "ISLAM"  has nothing to do with keeping literacy and
the knowledge of the ancients alive.     In fact literate muslims were
a rarity until very recently.     It is very likely true that there were more non
muslims literate in Arabic than muslims in countries like  Egypt and Syria  for
quite a while


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## irosie91 (Mar 23, 2016)

Sunni Man said:


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actually---the practice of infanticide in arabia -----was an ARAB thing----Christians
and jews did not so engage in the barbarism of the people of arabia who eventually
became the barbaric muslims


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## Sunni Man (Mar 23, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> actually---the practice of infanticide in arabia -----was an ARAB thing----Christians
> and jews did not so engage in the barbarism of the people of arabia who eventually
> became the barbaric muslims


You do realize that the Pagan, Jewish, and Christian tribe's living in the Arabian peninsula were ethnic arab people who spoke in arabic and practiced shared arab customs?    .....


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## irosie91 (Mar 23, 2016)

Sunni Man said:


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wrong again.      Arabia was a diverse land in which  Pagan, and Jewish, and
Christian tribes MAINTAINED their own DIFFERENT customs especially in terms
of religious practice.     Of course there were some superficial  "meldings"----as in
cuisine,  crafts and  styles of dress.     The confusion those more superficial  
"meldings"  have produced have even led to the idiot concept  that there is something properly called   "Islamic architecture"-------Islamic architecture is a tent in the desert.      BYZANTINE architecture is NOT   "Islamic"


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## Sunni Man (Mar 23, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> wrong again.      Arabia was a diverse land in which  Pagan, and Jewish, and
> Christian tribes MAINTAINED their own DIFFERENT customs especially in terms
> of religious practice.     Of course there were some superficial  "meldings"----as in
> cuisine,  crafts and  styles of dress.     The confusion those more superficial
> "meldings"  have produced have even led to the idiot concept  that there is something properly called   "Islamic architecture"-------Islamic architecture is a tent in the desert.      BYZANTINE architecture is NOT   "Islamic"


It's easy to know when I have caught you in a BS lie.

You start posting wildly inaccurate off topic nonsense to cover your tracks.

Quite amusing.......


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## irosie91 (Mar 23, 2016)

Sunni Man said:


> irosie91 said:
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"inaccurate"   what?     my comment is quite accurate.     In arabia-----'arabs'---
were completely illiterate except for the few that learned languages other than
Arabic  until about 300 AD-----when some people began to develope a written
language for ARABIC -----based on the various written languages of non-arabs
who resided in the area.        Zoroastrians still used their FARSI-----Christians
tended toward Greek and Latin ---and jews did their Hebrew.      What are you
calling  "inaccurate"      Despite the fact that an Arabic written form got developed---
most  "arabs" remained illiterate


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## Sally (Mar 23, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam
> 
> *Archaeologists Discover that Earliest Known Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian*
> 
> ...



Interesting, Aris, in light of the fact that there are Muslims in the Middle East engaged in persecuting and/or murdering Christians and there are those who are trying to wipe out any evidence of Christians or other ancient cultures which were there.  By the way, since your roots are in the Middle East, you probably have had interesting conversations with your Muslim friends and acquaintances during your years there as to how they look upon their religion and the religions of others.


*5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation*


*by Uzay Bulut
November 29, 2015 at 4:00 am*

*5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation*


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## Pogo (Mar 23, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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I reeeeally don't know where you pull these cockamamie ideas from but no, nobody claims Hebrew is a dialect of Arabic, nor vice versa.  They are related being Semitic but one isn't a dialect of the other, any more than you could call Spanish a "dialect" of French.  And yes I have met, worked with and lived with a slew of Arabs/Muslms, and not one of them ever even slightly implied "Arab is Muslim".  And if I was ignorant enough to suggest that they would have guffawed.  

They're two different things.  "Arab" is a geographic/ethnic group; "Muslim" is a religion.  You don't need to be one to be the other.  Matter of fact the most populous predominantly Muslim country in the world is Indonesia --- they ain't "Arabs".


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## aris2chat (Mar 23, 2016)

Sally said:


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Most of my friend are happy with the mix of groups.  They also like to preserve history not destroy it.

sadly war ravaged a lot of history, and especially tourism back home.  I empathize with syria and iraq on that point.


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## aris2chat (Mar 23, 2016)

Pogo said:


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You have miss a lot of discussion on the topic.  Linguistically, they are both Semitic, but they did not originate at the same time or place.  To those speaking and listening.......... there are many words that are very similar between modern arabic, aramaic and hebrew.

Muslims tend to believe quraysh  is perfect language and exclusive to the tribe

Were some of those discussions on other forums?


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## Pogo (Mar 24, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> You have miss a lot of discussion on the topic. Linguistically, they are both Semitic, but they did not originate at the same time or place. To those speaking and listening.......... there are many words that are very similar between modern arabic, aramaic and hebrew.



Yes I know.  That is my point.  The poster (Rosie) is trying to tell us Hebrew is a dialed (derivative) of Arabic, rather than a separate language branch of the same family.



aris2chat said:


> Were some of those discussions on other forums?



I don't know.  I studied languages long long before I ever came here.


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## irosie91 (Mar 24, 2016)

Pogo said:


> aris2chat said:
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> > You have miss a lot of discussion on the topic. Linguistically, they are both Semitic, but they did not originate at the same time or place. To those speaking and listening.......... there are many words that are very similar between modern arabic, aramaic and hebrew.
> ...



wrong POGO----Rosie posted the FACT that according to the Islamic version
of "history"-----Hebrew is a dialect of Arabic.     The idea is an example of ethnocentricism.    Both Arabic and Hebrew developed-----from earlier 
"proto-languages"-----like  Amharic.


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## Pogo (Mar 24, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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Bullshit.  No one ever claimed that except you just now.  That's a classic strawman, and as such, dismissed.


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## Roudy (Mar 24, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam
> 
> *Archaeologists Discover that Earliest Known Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian*
> 
> ...



Very interesting but does not come as a surprise. Islam itself is a hijacking of other faiths.


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## Roudy (Mar 24, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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Muslims are still trying to destroy everything and everybody who isn't a Muslim.  But president Hussien Obama has told us that it has nothing to do with Islam.  We need to provide more jobs for Islamic terrorists. LOL


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## Coyote (Mar 24, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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I don't think the world will ever truly recover from the damage - whether destruction or looting - ISIS has done to archaeological treasures that have been preserved for thousands of years.  It's truly a tragedy


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## Coyote (Mar 24, 2016)

Sally said:


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The problem isn't the Muslim culture, I think people forget that it is Muslims who preserved this history, as well as much learning, and kept it safe for over a thousand years.  The problem is extremists, who's religious world view is so destructive.


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## Pogo (Mar 24, 2016)

Coyote said:


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Absolutely.  Religious wackadoodlism always is  It's inevitable.


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## aris2chat (Mar 24, 2016)

Coyote said:


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they want the west to pay to rebuild syria.
$15 trillion + to rebuild syria

If we have a problem with the refugees, each nation should pay to rebuild syria so they have a place

............ Assad has said they can return now, no place to put them or supplies they would need.


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## Coyote (Mar 24, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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Two things occur to me...

The archaeological treasures belong, in a sense, to the world - they are part of the foundations of western civilization.  In that sense - donations from around the world, would be good (assuming a stable situation is achieved).

Also, I can't help but wonder if something like a "Marshall Plan" might not be helpful?  But so much depends on what kind of political solution comes out of the carnage.

There are far too many refugees for the surrounding countries and Europe to absorb now, far far too many, and too much instability.


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## aris2chat (Mar 24, 2016)

Coyote said:


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As long as Assad is there, it would be filling Assad's and alawite pockets


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## Coyote (Mar 24, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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Ya, that's a big part of the problem with any solution


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## montelatici (Mar 24, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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Why do you support Jewish rule over non-Jews and have a problem with Alawite rule over non-Alawites?  What is the difference?  Is it the fact that the Israeli Jews are better at keeping the non-Jews they rule over unarmed and maintain better control over the non-Jews than the Alawites keep over the non-Alawites?


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## Roudy (Mar 24, 2016)

Off topic again. The Jooos....the Joooos....the Joooos!  It's always the Joooooos.

Sick.


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## montelatici (Mar 24, 2016)

I am asking the Jew worshipping Christian Lebanese a simple question.  Why do you feel a need to interfere?


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## Coyote (Mar 24, 2016)

montelatici said:


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As far as I recall...."the Jews" haven't been barrel bombing their civilians...you might want to rethink the comparison here Monte....


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## Roudy (Mar 24, 2016)

Joooo worshipper must answer the command!  Was this thread about Christians penning Arabic writing, or those evil Joooos?

Joooos Jooos Jooos, that's the topic.

Now, Joooo worshipper, answer.


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## Sally (Mar 24, 2016)

Coyote said:


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I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques..  It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.


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## Sally (Mar 24, 2016)

Coyote said:


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I, too, was thinking about some sort of Marshall Plan when this conflict is over.  However, I think all Arab countries should chip in something.  Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have loads of money.  Surely they can put some of their ambitious projects on hold to help their fellow Arabs.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

I am fascinated ------and even EXCITED------where is it that  DA JOOOOS RULE NON-JOOOOS?


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## Roudy (Mar 25, 2016)

It's an antisemtic canard.  Da evil Jooooos control everything, and therefore, can be blamed for, everything. Da Joooooooooos!


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

Sally said:


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Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere.  Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect.  The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power.  I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years.  Or, the Bosnian conflict.  Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity.   You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

Sally said:


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Totally agree - in fact, much needs to come from the surrounding Arab states - it's their backyard afterall.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

Coyote said:


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   There is a sickness called  "EXTREMIST"   that causes all the trouble in the
world.    Coyote has DESCRIBED the problem-----it is like  TUBERCULOSIS----
it is endemic thruout the world-------all we need to is find the pathogen-----HIV virus
was found in  1981.     It was very prevalent in Haiti to the extent that blood
banks refuse HAITIAN BLOOD.     Now we need find the pathogen that causes
TERRORISM -------way to go Coyote-----historically and at the present time it is
found PREVALENTLY in muslim populations----until the pathogen is found----the
classic recourse is   QUARANTINE


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## Pogo (Mar 25, 2016)

Roudy said:


> It's an antisemtic canard.  Da evil Jooooos control everything, and therefore, can be blamed for, everything. Da Joooooooooos!



Yanno, da Joooooooos were founded by leftists in the Democratic Party.   True fact.


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## Roudy (Mar 25, 2016)

True, da Jooos are just as dumb as da blacks when it comes to their blind loyalty to the Democrat party.


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## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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and sadly they wave their qurans like a shield and claim to be acting in the name of allah like a sword.

many if not most groups have extreme elements, but they don't usually use religion as cause and effect for killing others.  (ya, I know abortion clinic bombings)

Unfortunately, among muslims in the MENA, and those who operate for them in the west, the line between church and state is very blurred.  It is not just extremism, but religious extremism that is the motivation.  In the case of ISIS/Daesh it is the goal of an Islamic State (global). sans kafir.

They have made this about religion and not just a state in syria and iraq.  Extremist muslims have always tried to make this about religion even long before ISIS or even Taliban.


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## Freeman (Mar 25, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.



What do you mean?
There were christians in the south and jews in the north in Khaybar and paganists in this region, most have converted to Islam.
Arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.
Forced conversion is not allowed in Islam.
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion - The Religion of Islam


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

Freeman said:


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and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????


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## Freeman (Mar 25, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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Your thread is ridiculous as arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.

Who are the christians who were killed in the arabic peninsula?


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

Freeman said:


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how do you know that the Arabic language "EXISTED"  before Judaism and
"christianism"      -------it was not a written language until about 300 AD.    It
is certainly true that the residents of the Arabian peninsula were grunting SOME
sort of a language  before that-------but the fact is as I have been told is that
ARABIC  has changed something like  ENGLISH changed ---over the past 2000
years----to the extent that even today Arabic in different countries -----is SO DIFFERENT that people from Morocco cannot talk to people from Saudi Arabia. 
There were jews in the Arabian peninsula for about 1500 years (at least) before
Muhummad was born------and---SHORTLY after Christianity became established
as a religion   (like 300 AD)     SAUDI ARABIA IS ON THE SILK ROAD 
(google 'silk road')      Even in the old days HUMANS were mobile and engaged
in long distance trading


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## Freeman (Mar 25, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> Freeman said:
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> The history of the Arabic alphabet shows that this abjad has changed since it arose. It is thought that the Arabic alphabet is a derivative of the Nabataean variation of the Aramaic alphabet, which descended from the Phoenician alphabet, which among others gave rise to the Hebrew alphabet and the Greek alphabet (and therefore the Cyrillic and Roman alphabets).
> History of the Arabic alphabet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

Freeman said:


> irosie91 said:
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Arabic after the greek, hebrew and phoenican.


>>Phoenician alphabet, called by convention the Proto-Canaanite alphabet for inscriptions older than around 1050 BC, is the oldest verified alphabet.<<

>>The Phoenician alphabet is derived from Egyptian hieroglyphs and became one of the most widely used writing systems, spread by Phoenician merchants across the Mediterranean world, where it evolved and was assimilated by many other cultures. The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet was directly derived from Phoenician. Another derivative script is the Aramaic alphabet<<


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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Not unique to Islam.


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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I have to differ with you here, Coyote.  If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects.  So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect.  One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs.  Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance?  And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed.  That means you, me and the rest of us here.  By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS.  What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed  | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed  | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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Maybe, IRosie, Freeman will next tell us that he learned to read the Canterbury Tales in Old English while a student at his madrassa.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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My college FRESHMAN COMP.    prof---could do it------he was a bit weird.   It was DEFINITELY unrelated to Arabic------it did not even sound human


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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so?     of what significance is the fact that there were times and places
in which religion was just as restricted and IMPOSED as it is today
thruout the  "Islamic world"  ?     There were times and places in which
people were cannibals too.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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what is most significant to me, sally, is that muslim kids are actually TAUGHT---
that muhummad INVENTED the concept of religious freedom and tolerance----
along with  (for muslims of southeast asia)    Dal and Chapattis.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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try not to admit that,  coyote.     It makes you seem hopelessly naive


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them.  By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there.  I wouldn't call that being tolerant.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?


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## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

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still are cannibals, both out of necessity and choice


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## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

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not iraq


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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No, I am not.  I can't understand why it is so difficult for you to believe that there are not many, many Muslims who are intolerant of others if they don't have the same religious beliefs.  No one is saying that all Muslims are like that; however, there are quite a few who are.  For instance, when an old church in Cairo was being renovated a few years back, thousands of Muslims showed up protesting this.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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I did not want to mention it------today being Good Friday.     I often take a look
at recipe sites--------never encountered any human recipes.    I have an old copy
of  "THE JOY OF COOKING"-------with recipes for squirrel and a complete guide
to the preparation---from newly dead bear------to yummy supper-----but nothing
HUMAN.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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I think there are MANY people who are intolerant of others.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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Dang...not even one for you know..."rocky mountain oysters" of the homosapiens variety?


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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the cave of Patriarchs massacre had nothing to do with destroying a shrine.  
Hindus lost lots to the destroy or change into mosque program over the past
thousand years------in fact there were once synagogues in what is now Pakistan
too.  --------of course churches too----but I know of no specific cases


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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Of course there are, but they don't resort to violence.  I have wondered, after reading a lot of articles, why such a large percent of converts to Islam (it said 25%) resort to terrorism.  Do you have any explanation for this?


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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absolutely true------more or less------some peoples a lot more than others and some
a lot less than others.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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Do 25% of converts to Islam resort to terrorism?


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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nope-----I am confident that there is a recipe for SOME types of   "oysters"  of
the fields-------but not human.   ONE COULD ADAPT


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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the 25%  figure------if there is such a figure----could refer to already violent types
that convert to islam in jail


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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Maybe you need an Armenian cook book.  One of the co-owners of a sub shop here told me (when I mentioned the Middle East market carried them in the meat department) that his mother makes those sheep testicles delicious.  She must put in some yummy spices, but I don't think I would be brave enough to try.  I don't even like the looks of the cow's tongue at the deli.  Come to think of it, I haven't seen that tongue in a long time so maybe people gave up eating it.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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Nigeria’s Christians borrow Boko Haram tactics, destroy traditional African religious shrines and art

Violence: Christians Gangs Destroying African Shrines and Culture -

Isis destroys historic Christian and Muslim shrines in northern Iraq

African evangelists destroy artifacts

The Destruction of the Pagan Temples

Jonah's tomb destroyed, officials say - CNN.com

and on and on and on


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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I don't know.  You read about ordinary people converting.  Was the convert who killed that British policeman a former convict?


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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I love adaptability


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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long long ago ---when I first ran into  jews from Iran -----I got told about how
DELICIOUS---are sheep testicles.     ---it gets worse-----SHEEP EYE is a
delicacy amongst Libyan jews.      As to tongue----my mom used to do it now and
then -------I COUD NOT BEAR TO LOOK AT THE THING WITH THE TASTE 
BUDS------but some people love it------she did brains too----but when I gagged and
upchucked she stopped trying to force it on me


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

I don't think I could eat something that was eying me....just saying.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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I don't know....    I got my information from a few former inmates who were kinda
FORCED TO CONVERT------one guy did and I asked  "WHY"?     He said----
"because I wanted to survive"         I got similar information from a prison warden.  
It was, and probably still is a trend in prison-----uhm------here---in the state in which I
live


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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Coyote said:


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As hard as you are going to try, Coyote (and it looks like you have been trying all day on several forums), the truth is that most of the incidents of terrorism these days are caused by Muslims..  I can understand why you have never mentioned the Boko Haram and the throats they have slit and the churches they have destroyed.  In fact, the other week in an article it stated that the Boko Haram killed more people than ISIS.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

Coyote said:


> I don't think I could eat something that was eying me....just saying.



I don't know how it is served-----and I don't really want to know


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

Sally said:


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Truth is, they mostly kill Muslims.  Why would that bother you?


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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thanks for those examples that demonstrate that  "THE EXCEPTION 
PROVES THE RULE"


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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The same thing happens in the British prisons.  However, ordinary people do convert who have no record, but something makes them segue into terrorism.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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I am reminded of a  GOOD FRIDAY-----many decades ago------during which I was
invited to visit a mosque.    The  Khutbah Jumaat  (something like sermon)  that
day was   "CHRISTIANS ARE PERVERSE LIARS----ENEMEEEES OF ISLAAAAM"
My hosts  (two muslim physicians)   did not understand why I seemed to be negatively affected to the sermon-------afterall---the genius imam did not even mention jews.


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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the operative word is  "KILL"  ------for just about any reason that makes the
object of the action-----someone  'OTHER'


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

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Could it be that I don't like to see innocent people murdered regardless of their religion?  For instance when two Ahmadiyya mosque were bombed in Pakistan a few years back and dozens were killed and dozens were wounded, didn't you feel any sorrow for them?  All they were doing was praying.


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## Coyote (Mar 25, 2016)

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Then we agree.


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## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

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(psssst----sally.......   )


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## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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Coyote said:


> Sally said:
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As we agreeing that many Muslims are intolerant that they blow up two mosques and kill all those people praying inside because of their religious sect?


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
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About 341,000 results (0.41 seconds) 
*Search Results*
*10 Reviews Of Human Flesh By Real Cannibals - Listverse*
listverse.com/2015/07/01/10-reviews-of-*human*-*flesh*-by-real-cannibals/
Jul 1, 2015 - Since it was a beef-like meat, da Silveira said the group had three different recipes for _cooking human flesh_. The first was carne guisada, which ...
*HowTo:Cook A Human - Uncyclopedia - Wikia*
uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/HowTo:Cook_A_*Human*
Like the tomato, which was once thought to be poisonous, _human flesh_ is .... If you're new to _cooking_ humans, this chart should help you decide what cut you ...
*Ancient Mesoamerican Recipe For Cooking Human Flesh ...*
www.forbes.com/.../ancient-mesoamerican-*recipe*-for-*cooking*-*hu*...
Forbes
May 20, 2015 - Archaeologists working near Mexico City found evidence of cannibalism. Using cutting-edge techniques, they re-created the methods and ...
*HowTo: Eat a Human « Meat Recipes*
*meat*-*recipes*.wonderhowto.com/how-to/howto-eat-*human*-0122609/
Dec 1, 2010 - Please, DO NOT attempt to eat a _human_, not matter how clear these instructions are. But, in the event of the apocalypse, now you know: eating ...
*Guide to cannibalism suggests ways to eat humans - Dezeen*
www.dezeen.com/.../guide-to-cannibalism-suggests-wa...
Dezeen Magazine
Jun 9, 2015 - Graduate shows 2015: intended to promote eating _humans_, the Guide to Cannibalism provides _recipes_ for _cooking meat_, and also comes with ...
*Cannibalism in the news: What does human flesh taste like?*
www.slate.com/.../cannibalism_in_the_news_what_does_*human*_*fle*...
Slate
Jun 4, 2012 - Seabrook noted that, in raw form, _human meat_ looks like beef, but slightly less red, with pale yellow fat. When roasted, the meat turned grayish, ...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Rocky Mountain Oysters Recipe - What's Cooking America*

whatscookingamerica.net/History/*Rocky*Mtn*Oyster*.htm
_Rocky Mountains oysters_ - also known as prairie _oysters_, Montana tendergroins, cowboy caviar, swinging beef, and calf fries - are true Western delicacies. ... Like other organ meats, testicles may be cooked in a variety of ways – deep-fried whole, cut into broad, thin slices, or ...
*Bull Testicles aka Rocky Mountain Oysters - Why Would You ...*
▶ 2:43
Jul 6, 2012 - Uploaded by Tasted
Why would any sane human being ever consume bull testicles? Find out about _Rocky Mountain Oysters_ in this ...
*Rocky Mountain oysters are real – and delicious - USA Today*
www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/.../24967419/
USA Today
Mar 19, 2015 - The Buckhorn Exchange is Denver's oldest restaurant, but more importantly it is the most atmospheric in the city – and maybe the country.
*Rocky Mountain Oysters Recipe - Deep-fried.Food.com*

www.food.com/.../*rocky*-*mountain*-*oysters*-28386
Food.com
Rating: 5 - ‎9 reviews - ‎1 hr 50 min - ‎192 cal
These are made from what is left after many ranchers castrate the spring calves. Many times they are just roasted over a campfire but the recipe below is what is ...
*Tasty Testes: On Eating Rocky Mountain Oysters - Modern ...*
modernfarmer.com/2013/11/tasty-testes/
Modern Farmer
Nov 11, 2013 - Known by a profusion of catchy euphemisms — _Rocky Mountain oysters_, prairie oysters, calf fries, huevos del toros (which is literally “bulls' ...


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> irosie91 said:
> 
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thanks------I used to keep recipes on index cards-----before al gore invented the
net-------but all got lost in a move-------I am SO GLAD that I can now file in digital
mode--------and keep your recipes till the end of time------or until the damn machine
crashes.    --------~~~~tasty testes.........Tasty Testes on Toast  <<<for poetic value


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

Sally said:


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you can make almost anything mahshi

I love the lamb balls, and eyes................and the rest of the lamb


----------



## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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I think, Aris, but I will stick to lamp chops.  I did have some lamb shanks in a Middle Eastern restaurant which were quite good.

Your recipes for cannibals reminded me of the Donner Pass and what happened there.


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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I've hear a few of those (too many)


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

Sally said:


> aris2chat said:
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SWEENEY TODD


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

Coyote said:


> irosie91 said:
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now two of those are in iraq


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
> 
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you are missing some of the best parts!


----------



## Sally (Mar 25, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> Sally said:
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Were there cannibals in Sweeney Todd?  I don't remember.  The Donner Pass is in  California, and the survivors ate their dead fellow travelers.  Remember the crash in the Andes where the same thing happened?


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 25, 2016)

Coyote said:


> I don't think I could eat something that was eying me....just saying.




fish eyes, lamb eyes, cow eyes........you can invite me to dinner anytime

brains, balls (in some species they are the same thing) and just about anything in between...............


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

aris2chat said:


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I gave them up for Lent------I am an aesthetic-------I LEAVE THE TESTES
to the GOURMANDS along with the eyeballs------and will be satisfied with
the humble burger


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 25, 2016)

Sally said:


> irosie91 said:
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poor guys------they did not have a complete spice rack.    Sweeney Todd was a
barber who used a few victims of his razor for the making of meat pies


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 26, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> Coyote said:
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> > I don't think I could eat something that was eying me....just saying.
> ...



yummy------do you also like PLACENTA?


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 26, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I could eat something that was eying me....just saying.
> ...




OK, I promise I won't invite you for soup night or tuna/salmon (raw and cooked)

Do you eat lobster in the shell?  Shrimp?  Peking Chicken?

what of potato?


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 26, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> aris2chat said:
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*Eating the Placenta | What to Expect*
www.whattoexpect.com › Pregnancy
Other mothers with stronger stomachs cut the membranes (the thin layer of tissue) away from the _placenta_, then _cook_ it like any other type of meat: in stews, spaghetti sauces, chili, or patties. Or you can make a smoothie with frozen _placenta_. Monitor yourself.
*Placenta Recipes – The Best Placenta Recipes on the ...*
*placenta*recipes.net/
Some use _placenta_ as a substitute for liver or beef. You should treat the _placenta_ as you would an animal meat. You may tenderize or ground it if you wish, or cut it into slices or cubes. However when _cooking placenta_ you must remove the umbilical cord and the membranes.
*Human placentophagy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
Human placentophagy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia
Human placentophagy, or consumption of the _placenta_, is defined as, “The ... by any person, either in raw or altered (e.g., _cooked_, dried, steeped in liquid) form.
*How To Cook And Eat A Placenta Pizza | Lifehacker Australia*
www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/03/how-to-*cook*-and-eat-a-*placenta*/
Mar 27, 2013 - I then _cooked_ and ate her _placenta_ for the express purpose of this article. (Never let it be said that Lifehacker journos aren't committed to their ...

in topical creams and even in medicine


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 26, 2016)

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just what is in the "SOUP"------as to the big red bug----hubby won't eat it-----or
the little white bugs-------PEKING CHICKEN???  is that a euphemism for
monkey brain?       why would anyone eat a big white starchy root------when there
are   piles of oysters out there in the corral?


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 26, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> irosie91 said:
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why the prejudice against umbilical cords?  ---------delicious stuffed----kinda like
FALLOPIAN TUBE STUFFED WITH OVARY


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 26, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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everyone in sweety todd were cannibal, even if they did not know it
best pies in London


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 26, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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> ...




*Monkey brains - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*Monkey*_*brains*
Wikipedia
_Monkey brains_ is a dish consisting of, at least partially, the brain of some species of monkey or ape. In Western popular culture, its consumption is repeatedly ...

or a nasty drink

Didn't your mother say to try everything once?
ooops, or was that taste
sorry mom


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 26, 2016)

aris2chat said:


> irosie91 said:
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no  "tasting"-------everything that touches your plate MUST
end up in your stomach--------no choices---DIETARY TOTALITARIANISM


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 26, 2016)

irosie91 said:


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*Can you eat an umbilical cord? | Yahoo Answers*
Home | Yahoo Answers...
Oct 2, 2009 - Stir in chopped _umbilical cord_, and _cook_ until the _umbilical cord_ browns. Stir in ginger, bok choy, chicken stock, sherry, soy sauce, and hoisin ...

*Should You Eat Your Baby's Placenta? - Organic Authority*
www.organicauthority.com/health/eating-placenta.html
May 1, 2012 - Attached via the _umbilical cord_ to the fetus' navel, the placenta is a unique organ and the foremost physical bond between mother and offspring ...
*Why New Mothers Are Choosing To Eat Their Own Placenta ...*
nymag.com/news/features/placenta-2011-8/
New York Magazine
Aug 21, 2011 - And in modern medicine, doctors often bank _umbilical_-_cord_ blood to treat genetic diseases with harvested stem cells. According to Kristal, the ...


----------



## irosie91 (Mar 26, 2016)

as a reaction to that discussion-----------I will stick to dipsy doodles-------
--or anything else that is a LONG WAY OFF FROM BEING DERIVED 
FROM A KNOWN LIVING THING


----------



## aris2chat (Mar 26, 2016)

irosie91 said:


> as a reaction to that discussion-----------I will stick to dipsy doodles-------
> --or anything else that is a LONG WAY OFF FROM BEING DERIVED
> FROM A KNOWN LIVING THING



now you're frightening me


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Mar 26, 2016)

Get the discussion back on track, please.  It's not about eating bizarre foods.  Thanks


----------



## surada (Jul 23, 2021)

aris2chat said:


> Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.



After the burning of the Christians of Najran, first the Ethiopian King and then Muhammed protected them ...


----------



## irosie91 (Jul 23, 2021)

surada said:


> After the burning of the Christians of Najran, first the Ethiopian King and then Muhammed protected them ...


"arab" countries have benefitted from the presence of zoroastrians, jews and 
christians-------the only sources of written records.     I am convinced that the 
best way to get a real grasp on the history of arabia would be 
a complete excavation of  Yathrib  (now called   "medina"     The jews who lived 
there were literate AND-----had even developed a written arabic  *using hebrew 
characters" ------which the Yemenite jews still retain ----sorta.     The real written 
record of the time of Muhummad-----is PROBABLY deep in the sands of Medina----
unfortunately it will never see the light of day


----------



## surada (Jul 23, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> "arab" countries have benefitted from the presence of zoroastrians, jews and
> christians-------the only sources of written records.     I am convinced that the
> best way to get a real grasp on the history of arabia would be
> a complete excavation of  Yathrib  (now called   "medina"     The jews who lived
> ...



Sunni Man 

There were also Nestorian Christians on Tarut Island. In fact, they had a Bishopric .


----------



## surada (Oct 16, 2021)

Pogo said:


> None that I've ever met.
> 
> And in any case, if said writing was found before Islam got invented ---- then it could not possibly have been written by a Muslim ---- could it?
> 
> Arabic is a _language_.  And a culture, or more correctly group of cultures..  Not a religion.  Those would have developed long before Islam, just as English and German and French and Spanish etc developed before they got Christianized.




This is monumentally stupid. Arabs were around for thousands of years before Islam.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 16, 2021)

surada said:


> This is monumentally stupid. Arabs were around for thousands of years before Islam.


    SO?   the fact is that ARABS had no written language until about 300 AD----
    They developed a bit of writing aped from Farsi.   Speaking of MONUMENTALLY 
    STUPID


----------



## surada (Oct 16, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> SO?   the fact is that ARABS had no written language until about 300 AD----
> They developed a bit of writing aped from Farsi.   Speaking of MONUMENTALLY
> STUPID



A History of the Arabic Language - Brigham Young University




__





						A History of the Arabic Language
					





					linguistics.byu.edu
				



Sep 06, 1999 · Historically, the North Arabic script, the earliest extant copies of which date to the 4th century B.C., is descended from the Nabatean Aramaic script. However, because the Aramaic script represented less than the required number of consonants for Arabic, the use of some shapes was extended by the means of dots placed on the letters.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 16, 2021)

surada said:


> A History of the Arabic Language - Brigham Young University
> 
> 
> 
> ...





surada said:


> A History of the Arabic Language - Brigham Young University
> 
> 
> 
> ...


   LOL @ the mormon take-----a silly device to make all the muslims  
   MORMONS?  <<<  touched by jibril's doppelganger  MORONI


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 16, 2021)

Pogo said:


> The bizarre comparison in the OP between "Arabic writing" (which is a language) and "Christian" (which is a religion) heavily implies that, yes.  Obviously an Arab may be a Muslim or not, and certainly was not before Islam existed. And just as obviously a Christian may or may not be an Arab.  The two entities have nothing to do with each other, so what the point of this thread is remains an unknown.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, no idea where you're pulling this from, but no Arab I've ever met ever claimed or implied that, even when they were teaching me Arabic phrases.   We spoke much (in English or French) about the language, but never about the religion.  Moreover that would be impossible, as it would mean that before Islam, Arabs didn't speak. Which is absurd.


   yes----it is absurd----but it is a claim that I heard from muslims


----------



## Roudy (Oct 19, 2021)

surada said:


> This is monumentally stupid. Arabs were around for thousands of years before Islam.


So have others, duh.


----------



## surada (Oct 19, 2021)

Roudy said:


> So have others, duh.



There are several posters who don't realize there were Arabs before Islam.. like the Akkadians. Save your duh for them.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 19, 2021)

surada said:


> There are several posters who don't realize there were Arabs before Islam.. like the Akkadians. Save your duh for them.


Islam is the youngest of the major faiths, so of course. The Arabs in the Saudi peninsula were Islam was created were idolators and moon worshippers, and Mohammad named god “allah” after one of the moon gods in order to gain the allegiance of his tribe.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 19, 2021)

surada said:


> There are several posters who don't realize there were Arabs before Islam.. like the Akkadians. Save your duh for them.


   Of course there were arabs---they are mentioned even in the talmud---like 1000 
years before the birth of the rapist of mecca.  
At that time they were called  ISHMAELITES.  
Characteristically---the Ishmaelites were unlettered,  nomads,  who dealt in slave trading and were dangerous if encountered in the wilderness.    It seems clear to me that not all 
AKKADIANS morphed into  "arabs"    Some 
evolved into Sumerians


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 19, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Islam is the youngest of the major faiths, so of course. The Arabs in the Saudi peninsula were Islam was created were idolators and moon worshippers, and Mohammad named god “allah” after one of the moon gods in order to gain the allegiance of his tribe.


Historically they were into ROCKS.    Rock worship was a thing------so of course---when a big black one fell from heaven it was a BIG 
EVENT


----------



## Roudy (Oct 19, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> Historically they were into ROCKS.    Rock worship was a thing------so of course---when a big black one fell from heaven it was a BIG
> EVENT


It isn’t a giant leap, the symbol of the religion is indeed the crescent moon, I mean duh…and allah and Anat were moon god sister deities in the ancient Saudi peninsula. So yes, Arabs did exist before Islam and they were idolators, and they still have the symbol of their idol on the flag of their religion and many Muslim nations.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 19, 2021)

aris2chat said:


> History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam


The time of Jesus Christ was some 400 years before Mohammed, and even the Muslims who do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God presumably still consider him the 4th of 5 prophets of which they count Mohammed the 5th.

Which makes the Islamic religion a break-away or schism from Christianity, rather than Judaism, because the Jews do not even acknowledge Jesus Christ as a prophet, let alone the only begotten Son of God.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 20, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> The time of Jesus Christ was some 400 years before Mohammed, and even the Muslims who do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God presumably still consider him the 4th of 5 prophets of which they count Mohammed the 5th.
> 
> Which makes the Islamic religion a break-away or schism from Christianity, rather than Judaism, because the Jews do not even acknowledge Jesus Christ as a prophet, let alone the only begotten Son of God.


   your assertion is utterly idiotic.    Muslims engage in extensive POSTHUMOUS "reversion" of anyone who seems IMPORTANT retrospectively to them.    Moses was ALSO a muslim 
according to the genius koranic scholars.    Even Alexander the great was "really" a 
muslim.    Long ago I worked in a hospital that harbored some pakistani doctors----one of them CONFIDENTLY told me----with ABSOLUTELY certainty that  MAIMONIDES 
was born a jew but the  REVERTED TO ISLAM and became a great doctor <<<< an 
assertion which is utter BULLSHIT.   For the record---muslims consider the "turn the 
cheek"  thing-----which christians treasure----UTTER STINKING BULLSHIT----this I know 
because so many TOLD ME.   They also consider the resurrection of jesus to be a filthy 
christian lie.     I heard it in a mosque-----on a GOOD FRIDAY----more than 50 years ago.


----------



## justinacolmena (Oct 21, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> your assertion is utterly idiotic. Muslims engage in extensive POSTHUMOUS "reversion" of anyone who seems IMPORTANT retrospectively to them. Moses was ALSO a muslim
> according to the genius koranic scholars


_*Islam*_ means "submission or obedience" in English, and a _*Muslim*_ is more or less a "subject" if I recall correctly.

People who in some way consider themselves or others to be in submission to God's law — how else are you going to say that in a language like Arabic?

Not all those people agree on who's a Muslim and who's not. Why do you think they fight so much with each other if not with outsiders?


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 21, 2021)

justinacolmena said:


> _*Islam*_ means "submission or obedience" in English, and a _*Muslim*_ is more or less a "subject" if I recall correctly.
> 
> People who in some way consider themselves or others to be in submission to God's law — how else are you going to say that in a language like Arabic?
> 
> Not all those people agree on who's a Muslim and who's not. Why do you think they fight so much with each other if not with outsiders?


   your observation is silly-----muslims KNOW what they MEAN when they speak arabic and refer to a 
person as MUSLIMI -----it ain't  YAHUD.    For the record -----both hebrew and arabic is built on  "ROOT WORDS"  ----generally for hebrew---three letters.  
As I understand it---the word  MUSLIM  is built on 
the three letter root that refers to "completeness"  
or "resolution" ----S L M     In hebrew the root is  
Sh L M   (SH is one letter)  The fact that muslims built a word to refer to their RELIGION IS   an  S L M  
word is a moot point.   When you hear the word 
MUSLIMI  in arabic-----it means a MUSLIM like 
one of the Ayatoilets.    When you hear the word  
YAHUD-----expect    ITBACH  which means something like DEATH TO


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 21, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Islam is the youngest of the major faiths, so of course. The Arabs in the Saudi peninsula were Islam was created were idolators and moon worshippers, and Mohammad named god “allah” after one of the moon gods in order to gain the allegiance of his tribe.



Totally wrong.
The word "Allah" is just the translated generic word for "god" and is not a name at all.
And Mohammad used the Old Testament for Islam.
Essentially Islam is a slightly reformed Judaism, but where women were given more rights.
The main groups of Arabs in the Saudi peninsula that Mohammad used as allies, were the 12 Jewish tribes.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 21, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> LOL @ the mormon take-----a silly device to make all the muslims
> MORMONS?  <<<  touched by jibril's doppelganger  MORONI



No, but it reminds us that all Hebrew/Jews are originally of Arab descent.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 21, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, but it reminds us that all Hebrew/Jews are originally of Arab descent.


   you  actually imagine that the your idiocy has 
   an impact on ANYTHING.      I am reminded that
   you are of dog shit descent


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 21, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, but it reminds us that all Hebrew/Jews are originally of Arab descent.


   rigsie is using islamic honored technique of the 
   famouse muslim   JOSEF GEOBBELS----to wit 
   "JUST KEEP REPEATING SHIT AND ALLAH BEGINS 
    TO BELIEVE IT"


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 21, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> you  actually imagine that the your idiocy has
> an impact on ANYTHING.      I am reminded that
> you are of dog shit descent



Most of the language of the Land of Canaan, are of Arab origin.
That is what the word "Semitic" means, "of an Arab language group".
And language is the best way to trace lineage.
Hebrew were Semitic, and spoke an Arab language.
So since most Jews are of Hebrew decent, they are Arabs.
Most of the tribes of the Mideast are of Arab origins.
The Canaanites, Amorites, Chaldeans, Akkadians, Assyrians, Phoenicians, Philistines, etc., are all Arab.
About the only ones who are not, are the Persians.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 21, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> rigsie is using islamic honored technique of the
> famouse muslim   JOSEF GEOBBELS----to wit
> "JUST KEEP REPEATING SHIT AND ALLAH BEGINS
> TO BELIEVE IT"



Just read your history books.
Clearly the word "Semitic" means of an Arab language group", and the Hebrew were a branch of Arabs.

{...
*Ancient Semitic-speaking peoples* or *Proto-Semitic people* were Western Asian people who lived throughout the ancient Near East, including the Levant, Mesopotamia, the Arabian Peninsula, and the Horn of Africa from the 3rd millennium BC until the end of antiquity.

Their languages are usually divided into three branches: East, Central and South Semitic languages. The Proto-Semitic language was likely spoken in the 4th millennium BC, and the oldest attested forms of Semitic date to the mid-3rd millennium BC (the Early Bronze Age).

Speakers of East Semitic include the people of the Akkadian Empire, Assyria and Babylonia. Central Semitic combines the Northwest Semitic languages and Arabic. Speakers of Northwest Semitic were the Canaanites (including the Phoenicians and the Hebrews) and the Arameans. South Semitic peoples include the speakers of Modern South Arabian languages and Ethiopian Semitic languages.
...}

The Hebrew were clearly related to Canaanites and Phoenicians.
Language is the best way to trace genetic origins.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 23, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Most of the language of the Land of Canaan, are of Arab origin.
> That is what the word "Semitic" means, "of an Arab language group".
> And language is the best way to trace lineage.
> Hebrew were Semitic, and spoke an Arab language.
> ...


   you are very confused.   Arabic---(THE LANGUAGE)  
   developed in the area today called  "SAUDI ARABIA"   English developed in the area which is today called  
  "England"..    I speak english but am not descended 
  from people native to England.   Hebrew developed 
  in the area today called  "Israel"       The Philistines 
  did not speak arabic nor did the Canaanites


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 23, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> you are very confused.   Arabic---(THE LANGUAGE)
> developed in the area today called  "SAUDI ARABIA"   English developed in the area which is today called
> "England"..    I speak english but am not descended
> from people native to England.   Hebrew developed
> ...



No, you are confusing Arabic with Old Arabic and other Arab languages that preceded Arabic.
Arabic is just one of the more recent Arab languages.
But the history of Arab languages goes back to before 10,000 BC in the Land of Canaan.
Arab languages are some of the oldest in the whole world.
One of the Arab language before Arabic is called Old Arabic.

{...
*Old Arabic* is the name for the pre-Islamic Arabic dialects and languages. The oldest attestation of the Arabic language goes back to Bayer, Jordan written in Ancient North Arabian script that is undifferentiated from other scripts of North Arabia.[1] The Old Arabic languages and dialects were written in many scripts like Safaitic, Hismaic, Nabatean, Thamudic, Dadanitic and even Greek.[2]
...
Old Arabic and its descendants are classified Central Semitic languages, which is an intermediate language group containing the older Northwest Semitic languages (e.g., Aramaic and Hebrew), the languages of the Dadanitic, Taymanitic inscriptions, the poorly understood languages labeled Thamudic, and the ancient languages of Yemen written in the Ancient South Arabian script. Old Arabic, is however, distinguished from all of them by the following innovations:[3]

negative particles _m_ */mā/; _lʾn_ */lā-ʾan/ > CAr _lan_
_mafʿūl_ G-passive participle
prepositions and adverbs _f_, _ʿn_, _ʿnd_, _ḥt_, _ʿkdy_
a subjunctive in -_a_
_t_-demonstratives
leveling of the -_at_ allomorph of the feminine ending
the use of _f_- to introduce modal clauses
independent object pronoun in (_ʾ_)_y_
vestiges of _nunation_
...
The oldest known attestation of the Arabic language dubbed as pre-Historic Arabic language is a bi-lingual inscription written in Old Arabic which was written in the undifferentiated North Arabian script and Canaanite which remains undeciphered.[2]
...}








						Old Arabic - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




The Hebrew did NOT develop anywhere near what is now called Israel.
The Hebrew would not have ever gone to Egypt if they had lived in what is now Israel, because that was the Land of Canaan, was always occupied by Canaanites, we know the history of the Land of Canaan, and it does not contain any Hebrew, and there was no drought in the Land of Canaan.
The only place that did have a drought, was the Sinai, so the Hebrew likely came from the Sinai.

And the Hebrew language is a version of Old Arabic.

The Philistines and Canaanites spoke a version of Old Arabic.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 24, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, you are confusing Arabic with Old Arabic and other Arab languages that preceded Arabic.
> Arabic is just one of the more recent Arab languages.
> But the history of Arab languages goes back to before 10,000 BC in the Land of Canaan.
> Arab languages are some of the oldest in the whole world.
> ...


   you remain very confused


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 24, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Totally wrong.
> The word "Allah" is just the translated generic word for "god" and is not a name at all.
> And Mohammad used the Old Testament for Islam.
> Essentially Islam is a slightly reformed Judaism, but where women were given more rights.
> The main groups of Arabs in the Saudi peninsula that Mohammad used as allies, were the 12 Jewish tribes.


   Muhammad read the  "OLD TESTAMENT"?    ---that 
   meccan caravan robber could neither read nor write.     There were 12 jewish tribes in the Saudi Penninsula?    when and where?


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 24, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> you remain very confused



The reality is that Arabs, like all humans, came from Africa by land.
Which means they went to the Levant first, before going to the Arabian Peninsula.
So the Arab in the Levant, like the Canaanites, Akkadians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, etc., predated the Arab in the Arabian Peninsula.
The Canaanites for example, go back to 8,000 BC.
That is before any settlements in the Arabian Peninsula.

Hebrew is of Arab origins.
Therefore, Jews are of Arab origins as well.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 24, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> Muhammad read the  "OLD TESTAMENT"?    ---that
> meccan caravan robber could neither read nor write.     There were 12 jewish tribes in the Saudi Penninsula?    when and where?



The 12 Jewish tribes of the Arabian Peninsula, after all Jews left the Levant under Roman Diaspora Decree.





__





						Jewish tribes of Arabia - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



{...
Some of the Jewish tribes of Arabia historically attested include:


Banu Harith or Bnei Chorath[3][4][5]
Banu Qaynuqa[3][4]
Banu Shutayba[3][4]
Jafna Clan of the Banu Tha'laba who were exiled members of the Banu Ghassan - while both tribes were not Jewish, they did have Jewish members; whereas the Jafna Clan was solely Jewish[3][4][6][_unreliable source?_]
Banu Zaura[7]
Banu Zurayq[3][4] In Islamic lore, Labid ben Asam was a Jewish sorcerer who cast a spell on Muhammad that made him ill for several months and prevented him from having sexual relations with his wives[8]
Banu Quda'a — Himyarite tribe of converts to Judaism[9]
Banu Qurayza — sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān, located in Yathrib (Medina)
Banu Nadir — sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān, located in Yathrib (Medina)
Banu Juw — sub-clan of the Banu Qaynuqa, Fled to North Africa.
Banu Aws
Banu Awf
...}


----------



## surada (Oct 24, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Totally wrong.
> The word "Allah" is just the translated generic word for "god" and is not a name at all.
> And Mohammad used the Old Testament for Islam.
> Essentially Islam is a slightly reformed Judaism, but where women were given more rights.
> The main groups of Arabs in the Saudi peninsula that Mohammad used as allies, were the 12 Jewish tribes.



LOLOL..No they weren't 12 Jewish tribes. They were a small minority in a country that had a tiny population.. Finally most of them left and returned to Jericho.

The first Muslims fled to the protection of the Christian King in East Africa.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 24, 2021)

surada said:


> LOLOL..No they weren't 12 Jewish tribes. They were a small minority in a country that had a tiny population.. Finally most of them left and returned to Jericho.
> 
> The first Muslims fled to the protection of the Christian King in East Africa.



Mohammad was being attacked by the Meccans who were not monotheists.
Mohammad went to Medina to defend himself.
There he allied with local Jewish tribes, some of which were before the Roman Diaspora Decree, and some after.
Not all Jews left, and Jews always played a large role in Islamic governments, especially around the Mediterranean, like the Moors going into the Iberian Peninsula.


----------



## surada (Oct 24, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Mohammad was being attacked by the Meccans who were not monotheists.
> Mohammad went to Medina to defend himself.
> There he allied with local Jewish tribes, some of which were before the Roman Diaspora Decree, and some after.
> Not all Jews left, and Jews always played a large role in Islamic governments, especially around the Mediterranean, like the Moors going into the Iberian Peninsula.



Actually Muhammed went to Medina as a mediator. Why do you inflate the Jewish presence in Arabia? They weren't too popular after the Jewish king burned the Christians of Najran in an attempt at forced conversion.


----------



## surada (Oct 24, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> Muhammad read the  "OLD TESTAMENT"?    ---that
> meccan caravan robber could neither read nor write.     There were 12 jewish tribes in the Saudi Penninsula?    when and where?



Muhammed managed caravans all over the region so he had talked with Christians, Jews, Zoroasterians before his visions in the cave.. The Nestorians had Bishiprics in Arabia in Tarut and Najran before Muhammed was born  when the Jewish king of Yemen burned the Christians.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 24, 2021)

surada said:


> Actually Muhammed went to Medina as a mediator. Why do you inflate the Jewish presence in Arabia? They weren't too popular after the Jewish king burned the Christians of Najran in an attempt at forced conversion.



Mohammad is the one who was quoted as speaking much about the Jews around Medina.
But I agree he originally played mediator between Jewish factions.

The king who burned Christians of Najran seems not only to be a recent covert, but seriously unstable.

{....
Ibn Hisham's _Sirat Rasul Allah_ (better known in English as _the Life of Muhammad_), describes the exploits of Yūsuf Dhū Nuwās. Ibn Hisham explains that Yūsuf was a convert Jew who grew out his sidelocks (_nuwas_), and who became known as "he of sidelocks." The historicity of Dhū Nuwās is affirmed by Philostorgius and by Procopius (in the latter's _Persian War_). Procopius writes that in 525, the armies of the Christian Kingdom of Axum in Ethiopia invaded Yemen at the request of the Byzantine Emperor, Justin I, to take control of the Jewish kingdom in Ḥimyar, then under the leadership of Yūsuf Dhū Nuwās, who rose to power in 522, probably after he assassinated Dhu Shanatir. Ibn Hisham explains the same sequence of events under the name of "Yūsuf Dhū Nuwās." Indeed, with this invasion, the Ḥimyarites were smitten, and as such the supremacy of the Jewish religion in the Kingdom of Ḥimyar, as well as in all of Yemen, came to an abrupt end. Imrū al-Qays, the famous Yemeni poet from the same period, in his poem entitled _taqūl lī bint al-kinda lammā ‘azafat_, laments the death of two great men of Yemen, one of them being Dhū Nuwās, whom he regards as the last of the Himyarite kings:
...
According to Ibn Ishaq, the king of Himyar named Dhu Nuwas had burned the Christians in Najran, and an invading army from Aksum (Habashah) occupied Yemen. Dhu Nuwas decided to kill himself by drowning himself in the sea. Arab tradition states that Dhū Nuwās committed suicide by riding his horse into the Red Sea. The Himyarite kingdom is said to have been ruled prior to Dhu-Nuwas by the Du Yazan dynasty of Jewish converts, as early as the late fourth century.[5]

According to a number of medieval historians, who depend on the account of John of Ephesus, Dhū Nuwās announced that he would persecute the Christians living in his kingdom because Christian states persecuted his fellow co-religionists in their realms; a letter survives written by Simon, the bishop of Beth Arsham in 524 CE, recounting Dimnon (who is probably _Dhū Nuwās'_) persecution in Najran in Arabia.[6]

Based on other contemporary sources, after seizing the throne of the Ḥimyarites in ca. 518 or 523 Dhū Nuwās attacked Najran and its inhabitants, capturing them and burning their churches. After accepting the city's capitulation, he massacred those inhabitants who would not renounce Christianity. According to the Arab historians, Dhū Nuwās then proceeded to write a letter to the Lakhmid king Al-Mundhir III ibn al-Nu'man of al-Ḥīrah and King Kavadh I of Persia, informing them of his deed and encouraging them to do likewise to the Christians under their dominion. Al-Mundhir received this letter in January 519, as he was receiving an embassy from Constantinople seeking to forge a peace between the Roman Empire and al-Ḥīrha.[7] He revealed the contents of the letter to the Roman ambassadors who were horrified by its contents. Word of the slaughter quickly spread throughout the Roman and Persian realms, and refugees from Najran even reached the court of the Roman emperor Justin I himself, begging him to avenge the martyred Christians.
...}




__





						Dhu Nuwas - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Roudy (Oct 25, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No, you are confusing Arabic with Old Arabic and other Arab languages that preceded Arabic.
> Arabic is just one of the more recent Arab languages.
> But the history of Arab languages goes back to before 10,000 BC in the Land of Canaan.
> Arab languages are some of the oldest in the whole world.
> ...


Once again, you got everything ass backwards.  Your claim belongs in the conspiracy section. Israel literally has thousands of archeological sites and artifacts that prove conclusively that the Hebrews migrated and took over the land thousands of years ago, and mixed with the Canaanites in many instances.  The language, culture and religion was brought and flourished in the land.  This is irrefutable proof, you can bang your head on the wall all that you want.  The Jews are going nowhere.  Israel is the Jewish spiritual, religious and cultural homeland.

The Arabic language is a relatively young one, and it's origins are from the Arabian peninsula.  Case closed.









						The history of Arabic Language
					

Arabic Language   Arabic, which is the native tongue of more than 200 million people worldwide,




					www.verbling.com
				




The Arabic Language has been around for well over 1000 years. It is believed to have originated in the Arabian Peninsula. It was first spoken by nomadic tribes in the northwestern frontier of the Peninsula. In fact, Arabic, means “nomadic.” Arabs (aka nomads), from which the word Arabic is derived, primarily occupied the area between Mesopotamia to the east to the Lebanon mountains in the west, to the Sinai in the south, and from northwestern Arabia to the Sinai in the south.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 25, 2021)

surada said:


> Muhammed managed caravans all over the region so he had talked with Christians, Jews, Zoroasterians before his visions in the cave.. The Nestorians had Bishiprics in Arabia in Tarut and Najran before Muhammed was born  when the Jewish king of Yemen burned the Christians.


Mohammad also told his followers that it's okay to attack and loot caravans and rape and pillage during the month of Ramadan, if it was to further Islam.  This was a first since in the the month of Ramadan prior to the appearance of Mohammad and Islam, it was customary that is was a time of rest and peace.  Look it up.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 25, 2021)

surada said:


> Muhammed managed caravans all over the region so he had talked with Christians, Jews, Zoroasterians before his visions in the cave.. The Nestorians had Bishiprics in Arabia in Tarut and Najran before Muhammed was born  when the Jewish king of Yemen burned the Christians.


   LOL  ---you got the revisionist history gleaned from 
    multiple khutbah jumaat feces flings----muhummad 
    was a caravan raider and slave dealer.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 25, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Mohammad is the one who was quoted as speaking much about the Jews around Medina.
> But I agree he originally played mediator between Jewish factions.
> 
> The king who burned Christians of Najran seems not only to be a recent covert, but seriously unstable.
> ...


What are you talking now?  Mohammad and his followers committed genocide on the ancient Jews of Medina (a historically Jewish city), when they refused him as the "the final messenger".  In fact, it is highly probable that is when the Jewish influences on the Arabic language and culture and Islam occurred, from the ancient Jewish communities Mohammad obliterated.   Then he used all the gold and other valuables stolen from the Jews to finance his other conquests.  Kind of like what the Romans did, after the destruction of the Temple, they used all the gold and valuables to build the Colosseum, using imported Jewish slave laborers.  You really need to brush up on your history.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 25, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Mohammad also told his followers that it's okay to attack and loot caravans and rape and pillage during the month of Ramadan, if it was to further Islam.  This was a first since in the the month of Ramadan prior to the appearance of Mohammad and Islam, it was customary that is was a time of rest and peace.  Look it up.


   SO true----as a successful caravan raider,  muhummad developed a following----similar
to the  "GODFATHER"


Roudy said:


> What are you talking now?  Mohammad and his followers committed genocide on the ancient Jews of Medina (a historically Jewish city), when they refused him as the "the final messenger".  Then he used all the gold and other valuables to finance his other conquests.  Kind of like what the Romans did, after the destruction of the Temple, they used all the gold and valuables to build the Colosseum, using imported Jewish slave laborers.  You really need to brush up on your history.


   islamic revisionist history includes all kinds of 
   legends about muhummad writing letters to 
   other  "kings"   as a kind of ambassador or 
   love and good will


----------



## Roudy (Oct 25, 2021)

surada said:


> Actually Muhammed went to Medina as a mediator. Why do you inflate the Jewish presence in Arabia? They weren't too popular after the Jewish king burned the Christians of Najran in an attempt at forced conversion.


"Inflate"..."Mediator" =>








						History of the Jews in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




There were three main Jewish tribes in Medina before the rise of Islam in Arabia: the Banu Nadir, the Banu Qainuqa, and the Banu Qurayza. Banu Nadir was hostile to Muhammad's new religion. Other Jewish tribes lived relatively peacefully under Muslim rule. Banu Nadir, the Banu Qainuqa, and the Banu Qurayza lived in northern Arabia, at the oasis of Yathrib until the 7th century, when the men were executed and the women and children were enslaved after they betrayed the pact they made with the Muslims[6] following the Invasion of Banu Qurayza by Muslim armies led by Muhammad.[7][8]

A historical journey to visit far-flung Jewish communities was undertaken by Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela from 1165 to 1173 that crossed and tracked some of the areas that are located in present-day Saudi Arabia. One map of his travels shows that he stopped at Jewish communities living in Tayma and Khaybar[12] two places that are known to have a longer significant historic Jewish presence in them, the Battle of Khaybar was fought between Muhammad and his followers against the centuries-long established Jewish community of Khaybar in 629. Tudela's trek began as a pilgrimage to the Holy Land.[13] He may have hoped to settle there, but there is controversy about the reasons for his travels. It has been suggested he may have had a commercial motive as well as a religious one. On the other hand, he may have intended to catalogue the Jewish communities on the route to the Holy Land so as to provide a guide to where hospitality may have been found for Jews travelling to the Holy Land.[14] He took the "long road" stopping frequently, meeting people, visiting places, describing occupations and giving a demographic count of Jews in every town and country.

There was a small Jewish community, mostly members of Bnei Chorath, in one border city from 1934 until 1950. The city of Najran was liberated by Saudi forces in 1934 after it been conquered by Yemenis in 1933, thus absorbing its Jewish community, which dates to pre-Islamic times.[16] With increased persecution, the Jews of Najran made plans to evacuate. The local governor at the time, Amir Turki ben Mahdi, allowed the 600 Najrani Jews[17] a single day on which to either evacuate or never leave again.

****ETHNIC CLEANSING...ANYONE?


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 25, 2021)

Roudy said:


> What are you talking now?  Mohammad and his followers committed genocide on the ancient Jews of Medina (a historically Jewish city), when they refused him as the "the final messenger".  In fact, it is highly probable that is when the Jewish influences on the Arabic language and culture and Islam occurred, from the ancient Jewish communities Mohammad obliterated.   Then he used all the gold and other valuables stolen from the Jews to finance his other conquests.  Kind of like what the Romans did, after the destruction of the Temple, they used all the gold and valuables to build the Colosseum, using imported Jewish slave laborers.  You really need to brush up on your history.


   OH c'mon Roudy----you KNOW that there are large 
   thriving christian, zoroastrian and Jewish 
   communties in Saudi arabia----with their respective 
   temples, and synagogues etc    INTACT ---because 
   muhummad was SUCH A NICE GUY----just ask 
   Surada


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 25, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Once again, you got everything ass backwards.  Your claim belongs in the conspiracy section. Israel literally has thousands of archeological sites and artifacts that prove conclusively that the Hebrews migrated and took over the land thousands of years ago, and mixed with the Canaanites in many instances.  The language, culture and religion was brought and flourished in the land.  This is irrefutable proof, you can bang your head on the wall all that you want.  The Jews are going nowhere.  Israel is the Jewish spiritual, religious and cultural homeland.
> 
> The Arabic language is a relatively young one, and it's origins are from the Arabian peninsula.  Case closed.
> 
> ...



Hebrew did invade thousands of years ago, about 1000 BC, but they did not stay.
The Assyrians defeated the Hebrew around 740 BC,  and made them all leave.
The Babylonians defeated the Hebrew in 597 BC, and deported them all from Jerusalem and the Land of Canaan.
The Romans returned the Hebrew to rule in Jerusalem around 150 BC, but then they rebelled twice, were defeated twice, and the Romans forced them all to leave with their Diaspora Decree around 150 AD.

The truth is there is no trace of Hebrew or Jewish settlement, construction, or anything, anywhere in the Mideast at all.
Nor did the Hebrew have their own language.
Hebrew is an Arab language, and it had no script until around 100 BC.
Before that Jews and Hebrew wrote in Aramaic or Greek.
The monotheistic religion probably came from Egypt.

Old Arabic predates any mention of Hebrew anywhere, by at least 5,000 years, going back to 8,000 BC in Jericho.
Hebrew clearly is a descendant of Old Arabic.
And the Arabian Peninsula is the origins of nothing.
Arab culture developed in the Land of Canaan, not the Arabian Peninsula.

The earliest Mideast settlement is the Canaanites of Jericho, and they most definitely were of Arab origins.
Arab does not mean nomadic, and Arab are almost never nomadic.
The only Arabs who are nomadic are the Bedouins.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 25, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Mohammad also told his followers that it's okay to attack and loot caravans and rape and pillage during the month of Ramadan, if it was to further Islam.  This was a first since in the the month of Ramadan prior to the appearance of Mohammad and Islam, it was customary that is was a time of rest and peace.  Look it up.



Wrong.
As a merchant, Mohammad hated caravan robbers, and attacked then whenever they were detected.
Mohammad is well known for making Mideast travel much safer.

The exception were the caravans from Mecca that were supplying his enemies who were attacking him.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 26, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Hebrew did invade thousands of years ago, about 1000 BC, but they did not stay.
> The Assyrians defeated the Hebrew around 740 BC,  and made them all leave.
> The Babylonians defeated the Hebrew in 597 BC, and deported them all from Jerusalem and the Land of Canaan.
> The Romans returned the Hebrew to rule in Jerusalem around 150 BC, but then they rebelled twice, were defeated twice, and the Romans forced them all to leave with their Diaspora Decree around 150 AD.
> ...


You are a joke and a total ignoramus.  The thing there is no proof or evidence of in Israel, is Arabs.  Not a single artificial or archeological site can show “Arab” existence, including in the 600 years of Muslim Ottoman rule.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 26, 2021)

Roudy said:


> You are a joke and a total ignoramus.  The thing there is no proof or evidence of in Israel, is Arabs.  Not a single artificial or archeological site can show “Arab” existence, including in the 600 years of Muslim Ottoman rule.



That is a ridiculous claim.
The Wailing Wall is obviously such large blocks that it is Arab Canaanite construction, likely a foundation of a temple to Baal.
There are unlimited examples of Arab construction in Palestine, just like that.
You will also notice that the Hebrew were not called Jews until after they moved to Jerusalem.  And Just like Jericho, the Jordan river, and the city of Jerusalem, the name Jew is from the Arab Canaanite legacy for the propensity of using the letter 'J'.
So even the modern name for Jews is an Arab Canaanite legacy.


----------



## rylah (Oct 26, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> That is a ridiculous claim.
> The Wailing Wall is obviously such large blocks that it is Arab Canaanite construction, likely a foundation of a temple to Baal.
> There are unlimited examples of Arab construction in Palestine, just like that.
> You will also notice that the Hebrew were not called Jews until after they moved to Jerusalem.  And Just like Jericho, the Jordan river, and the city of Jerusalem, the name Jew is from the Arab Canaanite legacy for the propensity of using the letter 'J'.
> So even the modern name for Jews is an Arab Canaanite legacy.



What's ridiculous is the degradation
for which Arab supremacists compensate
with the compulsion to say whatever the opposite.
Must feel quiet depressing when you produce the largest illiterate group on earth...


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 26, 2021)

rylah said:


> What's ridiculous is the degradation
> for which Arab supremacists compensate
> with the compulsion to say whatever the opposite.
> Must feel quiet depressing when you produce the largest illiterate group on earth...



The Arabs, like the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Akkadians, Amorites, Urites, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, etc., have been in Palestine from 8000 BC on.
Jews only invaded around 1000 BC and ruled for about 250 years.
That's it.
They left.
Now Zionists want to again claim they are the "Chosen People" and Palestine is the "Promised Land", but it is all obviously a lie.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 26, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> That is a ridiculous claim.
> The Wailing Wall is obviously such large blocks that it is Arab Canaanite construction, likely a foundation of a temple to Baal.
> There are unlimited examples of Arab construction in Palestine, just like that.
> You will also notice that the Hebrew were not called Jews until after they moved to Jerusalem.  And Just like Jericho, the Jordan river, and the city of Jerusalem, the name Jew is from the Arab Canaanite legacy for the propensity of using the letter 'J'.
> So even the modern name for Jews is an Arab Canaanite legacy.


Wailing Wall was rebuilt help of the Persians after the Roman destruction of the first Temple, mental midget. There is no evidence of anything Arab in ancient Israel. The definition of the word “Arab” literally meant as a person from Saudi Arabia In its origins  

Countries and people’s later became “Arab” once the Arab Muslims led by Mohammad and later his successors, invaded and forced them into their religion and language. Islam and therefore Arabism is all relatively young,  not more than 1400 years old.  

Despite this, many of the invaded did manage to keep their previous culture and traditions as it was before the arabs invaded..  In Iran for example, the Persian new year is celebrated according the Zoroastrianism, which predates Arabs and Islam by thousands of years.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 26, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Wailing Wall was rebuilt help of the Persians after the Roman destruction of the first Temple, mental midget. There is no evidence of anything Arab in ancient Israel. The definition of the word “Arab” literally meant as a person from Saudi Arabia In its origins
> 
> Countries and people’s later became “Arab” once the Arab Muslims led by Mohammad and later his successors, invaded and forced them into their religion and language. Islam and therefore Arabism is all relatively young,  not more than 1400 years old.
> 
> Despite this, many of the invaded did manage to keep their previous culture and traditions as it was before the arabs invaded..  In Iran for example, the Persian new year is celebrated according the Zoroastrianism, which predates Arabs and Islam by thousands of years.



Wrong.
It has been conclusively proven the Wailing Wall is from before 1000 BC, so is Canaanite and has nothing at all to do with Jews or Hebrew.
Nor would Persians come all that way to do foundation work the local Arabs were better at.

Arab does NOT mean from Saudi Arabia.
Arab means from Shem, one of Noah's sons.
Arab is a scholarly term and has nothing to do with what people call themselves.
For example, Anglo Saxons are of Germanic origins, but no on in Gt. Britain would call themselves German.
It is Arabs who predate Zoroaster by thousands of years.
And Islam is only Arab because it came from the Hebrew, who happen to be Arab.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 27, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> It has been conclusively proven the Wailing Wall is from before 1000 BC, so is Canaanite and has nothing at all to do with Jews or Hebrew.
> Nor would Persians come all that way to do foundation work the local Arabs were better at.
> 
> ...


...and with every post you prove your ignorance and insanity.  Arabs predate Zoroaster, Hebrews were Arabs, jokes of the month.  You must be the Arab flip side of these black / white supremacists.


----------



## DudleySmith (Oct 27, 2021)

aris2chat said:


> History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam
> 
> *Archaeologists Discover that Earliest Known Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian*
> 
> ...



Muslims are just Jews on horseback. Christianity is another Jewish sect based on pre-exilic Judaism, and is older than the modern Judaism by a few decades. Arabs do  not necessarily have the same roots as Hebrews.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 27, 2021)

Roudy said:


> ...and with every post you prove your ignorance and insanity.  Arabs predate Zoroaster, Hebrews were Arabs, jokes of the month.  You must be the Arab flip side of these black / white supremacists.



The word "Semitic" means "of an Arab language group", coming from Shem, a son of Noah.
So in Biblical terms, Arab go back to the sons of Noah.
So are Hebrew Semitic or not?
If Hebrew are Semitic, then they are Arabs.
If the Hebrew are not Arabs, then they are not Semitic.

And by the way, Zoroaster was around 600 to 700 BC, so way after the Mideast was almost entirely populated by Arab tribes.
About the only tribes in the Mideast who were not Arab, were the Persians.
Again, Canaanites are Arab because their language is Arab origins, and it was not called "The Land of Canaan" for no reason.


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 27, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Muslims are just Jews on horseback. Christianity is another Jewish sect based on pre-exilic Judaism, and is older than the modern Judaism by a few decades. Arabs do  not necessarily have the same roots as Hebrews.



Hebrew have Arab roots.
Not only did the spoken Hebrew derive from spoken Arab dialects, but Hebrew wrote in Aramaic, which is Arab without question.


----------



## DudleySmith (Oct 27, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Hebrew have Arab roots.
> Not only did the spoken Hebrew derive from spoken Arab dialects, but Hebrew wrote in Aramaic, which is Arab without question.



The so-called 'Semitic' languages came from  north of Arabia.

*Although the evidence showing where the 
Semites came from is not yet clear, we can still use written and archeological sources to 
definitively confirm that the Semites came to central Mesopotamia, Syria and Palestine 
not from the south (Arabia), but from the north (northwestern Mesopotamia) and from the 
upper courses of the two large-scale rivers in Western Asia, the Tigris and the Euphrates. 
The Bible concretely designates the fatherland of the Jewish patriarchs, specifying 
the region surrounding the city of Haran which was situated approximately 30 km to the 
southwest of today’s Turkish city Sanliurfa (ancient Edessa), not far from the border with 
Syria.  The biblical texts unambiguously show that the city of Ur in Sumer, from which 
Abraham came into Canaan (Palestine), was never his place of birth.  Moreover, on the
way to Canaan, the family of Abraham and his father Terah, stopped for a long time in 
the place of their birth, Haran.3  This is where Terah died and the clan leadership was 
transferred to his son – Abraham.  Later, the Bible again recalls that the native land of the 
ancient Jewish forefathers was not Canaan, but Haran, in northwestern Mesopotamia.  
The book of Genesis also gives two names for this region: Aram-Naharaim and Padan-
Aram.4  Obviously, they secured the region of Haran after the arrival of the Aramaeans.  
It was precisely here that Abraham sent his trusted servant to find a wife for his son Isaac, 
since he did not want him to form relations with the foreigners in Canaan.5*



			https://biblicaltheology.com/Research/LipovskyI01.pdf
		


And, the ancient peoples from which Abraham came from were from even further north,

*All the ancient Egyptian frescos depict the 
Semites as people with relatively light skin, as compared to the Egyptians themselves.  
Consequently, they came from regions located primarily to the north where the sun’s 
radiation was less of an issue than in Egypt or in northern Arabia. *

They were not originally a equatorial people from Africa, either. They were mostly likely descended from an early European peoples, and inter-married with the southern peoples, as we know they did with Canaanites and others, hence the Babylonian fictions invented to shut those out from Temple and aristocratic government posts by the Babylonian Jews re Ezra. There was no 'Jewish race'; that's a silly scam invented by Babylonian Jews and their extensive 'racial purity' codes, later adopted by the Pharisees who invented 'rabbinical Judaism' around 135-150  A.D.. 'Arabs' had nothing to do with it. All they did was plagariaze 12 or so books of Moses and 'revised them to claim Arabs were the Center Of The Universe and start their own racist cult.


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

irosie91 said:


> LOL  ---you got the revisionist history gleaned from
> multiple khutbah jumaat feces flings----muhummad
> was a caravan raider and slave dealer.



Muhammed was a caravan leader for his first wife's company. I don't know about slaves.. They say the same thing about the Khazars being slavers.


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> The so-called 'Semitic' languages came from  north of Arabia.
> 
> *Although the evidence showing where the
> Semites came from is not yet clear, we can still use written and archeological sources to
> ...



There was no Ur of the Chaldeas in the time of Abraham.. That was an error. Abraham was from Urfa near Haran.. See Ras Shamra on a map.

Arabs along the coasts are much darker than people who live in the interior of the Arabian Peninsula because they have intermarried with people from East Africa and the Indus Vaalley.


----------



## DudleySmith (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> There was no Ur of the Chaldeas in the time of Abraham.. That was an error. Abraham was from Urfa near Haran.. See Ras Shamra on a map.
> 
> Arabs along the coasts are much darker than people who live in the interior of the Arabian Peninsula because they have intermarried with people from East Africa and the Indus Vaalley.



Already linked to that info, not only here but several times in other posts.


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

DudleySmith 

“Ur of the Chaldeans” (Gen 11:28-31)


			https://drbarrick.org/files/papers/other/Chaldeans_Natl_2007.pdf
		

A later editor or scribe was aware of more than one city called “Ur” in the ancient Near East. Since the Chaldeans did not exist in the ancient world until nearly a thousand years after Abram’s day, the designation “of the Chaldeans” was without question added by a later scribe in order to distinguish which Ur …


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> Already linked to that info, not only here but several times in other posts.



Do you know Saudi Arabia well?


----------



## DudleySmith (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> Do you know Saudi Arabia well?



Do you never read what people post, and just run around pretending you're schooling us on stuff?


----------



## Rigby5 (Oct 27, 2021)

DudleySmith said:


> The so-called 'Semitic' languages came from  north of Arabia.
> 
> *Although the evidence showing where the
> Semites came from is not yet clear, we can still use written and archeological sources to
> ...



No significant disagreement from me.
I agree that the basis of all Semitic languages, Old Arabic, originated from the Levant and not the Arabian Peninsula.
However I would say that since all humans came out of Africa less than 100,000 years ago, the early Europeans likely were also darker.
I think it is more inbreeding that lightened skin color.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> Old Arabic, originated from the Levant and not the Arabian Peninsula.



Anything to backup that claim?


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No significant disagreement from me.
> I agree that the basis of all Semitic languages, Old Arabic, originated from the Levant and not the Arabian Peninsula.
> However I would say that since all humans came out of Africa less than 100,000 years ago, the early Europeans likely were also darker.
> I think it is more inbreeding that lightened skin color.



The Akkadians were from the Arabian Peninsula.

Akkadian language - Wikipedia








						Akkadian language - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Akkadian is an extinct East Semitic language that was spoken in ancient Mesopotamia (Akkad, Assyria, Isin, Larsa and Babylonia) from the third millennium BC until its gradual replacement by Akkadian-influenced Old Aramaic among Mesopotamians by the 8th century BC. It is the earliest attested Semitic language. It used the cuneiform script, which was originally used to write the unrelated, and als…

Akkadian belongs with the other Semitic languages in the Near Eastern branch of the Afroasiatic languages, a family native to the Middle East, Arabian Peninsula, the Horn of Africa, parts of Anatolia, North Africa, Malta, Canary Islands and parts of West Africa (Hausa). Akkadian and its successor Aramaic, however, are only ever attested in Mesopotamia and the Near East.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The Arabs, like the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Akkadians, Amorites, Urites, Nabatians, Phoenicians, Philistines, etc., have been in Palestine from 8000 BC on.
> Jews only invaded around 1000 BC and ruled for about 250 years.
> That's it.
> They left.
> Now Zionists want to again claim they are the "Chosen People" and Palestine is the "Promised Land", but it is all obviously a lie.



Nice try, but the earliest historic mention of Israel is in the 12th century BCE,
of Hebrew language is in the 10th century BCE

And the earliest historic mention of Arabs is in the 9th century BCE
 of Arabic language is only in the 5th century BCE

I've also noticed you didn't even address the fact that
Arabs comprise the largest illiterate group on earth
is that why you're desperate to switch the topic?


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> Nice try, but the earliest historic mention of Israel is in the 12th century BCE,
> of Hebrew language is in the 10th century BCE
> 
> And the earliest historic mention of Arabs is in the 9th century BCE
> ...



The Akkadians were much older thaan the 12th century BC.. and they were from Arabia.

Ancient Akkadian Civilization – Ancient Civilizations World




__





						Ancient Akkadian Civilization – Ancient Civilizations World
					






					ancientcivilizationsworld.com
				




The AkkadiansThe First Mesopotamian Empire: The Akkadian EmpireDecline and Fall of The Akkadian EmpireAkkadian Culture’S Contributions

Kish was a city in northern Lower Mesopotamia (which would later become Akkad’s land). It was likely founded at around the beginning of the third millennium, although there was an older human presence. It comprised the settlements of Ingharra and Uhaimir, along with others of less importance. It was located some 15 kilometers east of Babylon. 

With this, Sargon became the first monarch in history to unite the entire Mesopotamian basi…
See more on ancientcivilizationsworld.com


Sargon of Akkad - Wikipedia








						Sargon of Akkad - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




*Sargon of Akkad , also known as Sargon the Great, was the first ruler of the Akkadian Empire, known for his conquests of the Sumerian city-states in the 24th to 23rd centuries BC. *

He is sometimes identified as the first person in recorded history to rule over an empire. He was the founder of the "Sargonic" or "Old Akkadian" dynasty, which ruled for about a century after his death until the Gutian conquest of


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> The Akkadians were from the Arabian Peninsula.
> 
> Akkadian language - Wikipedia
> 
> ...



Akkadian is an East Semitic language,
Arabic is a Central Semitic language.

Read your own link, it contradict;s your mistake.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> The Akkadians were much older thaan the 12th century BC.. and they were from Arabia.
> 
> Ancient Akkadian Civilization – Ancient Civilizations World
> 
> ...



Arabic was not the spoken language of Akkadians,
the first historic record of Arabic is only in the 5th century BCE









						Old Arabic - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> Arabic was not the spoken language of Akkadians,
> the first historic record of Arabic is in the 5th century BCE
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting.. Sargon was an arab and the marsh arabs were in southern Iraq 6,000 years ago. They were from Eastern coast of Arabia. Plus Yemen was supplying Frankensense and Myrr to the Pharoahs.
The aaAkkadians go way back to 22 centuries before Christ.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> Interesting.. Sargon was an arab and the marsh arabs were in southern Iraq 6,000 years ago. They were from Eastern coast of Arabia. Plus Yemen was supplying Frankensense and Myrr to the Pharoahs.
> The aaAkkadians go way back to 22 centuries before Christ.



Nice anecdote,
but did he speak Arabic?

Any record of "Arabic 6000 yrs ago"?


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> Akkadian is an East Semitic language,
> Arabic is a Central Semitic language.
> 
> Read your own link, it contradict;s your mistake.



The people of the Arabian peninsula began migrating north over 10,000 years ago because or climate change as Arabia became more arid. Sumer had a written language in 3,000 BC... 

Hebrew belongs to the Canaanite group of languages. Canaanite languages are a branch of the Northwest Semitic family of languages.
According to Avraham Ben-Yosef, Hebrew flourished as a spoken language in the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah during the period from about 1200 to 586 BCE. Scholars debate the degree to which Hebrew was a spoken vernacular in ancient times.


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> That's a nice theory,
> but did he speak Arabic?
> 
> Any record of "Arabic 6000 yrs ago"?



They have recently found some  8,000 year old monuments in Arabia with writing on them and I know there were lots of semitic languages in Arabia and Yemen long before Christianity.

They had to be around.. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> The people of the Arabian peninsula began migrating north over 10,000 years ago because or climate change as Arabia became more arid. Sumer had a written language in 3,000 BC...
> 
> Hebrew belongs to the Canaanite group of languages. Canaanite languages are a branch of the Northwest Semitic family of languages.
> According to Avraham Ben-Yosef, Hebrew flourished as a spoken language in the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah during the period from about 1200 to 586 BCE. Scholars debate the degree to which Hebrew was a spoken vernacular in ancient times.



Notice how desperately you're trying to switch the topic.

so

...still no record of Arabic prior to century BCE?


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> Notice how desperately you're trying to switch the topic.
> 
> so
> 
> ...still no record of Arabic prior to century BCE?



Wikizero - Proto-Arabic language





						Wikizero - Proto-Arabic language
					

WikiZero Özgür Ansiklopedi - Wikipedia Okumanın En Kolay Yolu




					www.wikizero.com
				



Proto-Arabic is the name given to the hypothetical reconstructed ancestor of all the varieties of Arabic attested since the 9th century BC. [1] [2] There are two lines of evidence to reconstruct Proto-Arabic:


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> They have recently found some  8,000 year old monuments in Arabia with writing on them and I know there were lots of semitic languages in Arabia and Yemen long before Christianity.
> 
> They had to be around.. Both Abraham and Moses had Arab wives.



"8,000 year old monuments with Arabic writing"

Got a link?


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> Wikizero - Proto-Arabic language
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wikizero?? Bebsi Kola...?
What is this rubbish?

From your link:



> This article *needs additional citations for verification*. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources.* Unsourced material* may be challenged and *removed. *


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

Historic record of Arabic language
prior to 5th century BCE...

anyone?


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> Wikizero Bebsi Kola...
> 
> What is this rubbish?
> From your link:



Maybe it was like proto Hebrew.

Paleo-Hebrew alphabet - Wikipedia








						Paleo-Hebrew alphabet - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



The Paleo-Hebrew script (Hebrew: הכתב העברי הקדום‎), also Palaeo-Hebrew, Proto-Hebrew or Old Hebrew, is the writing system found in Canaanite inscriptions from the region of Biblical Israel and Judah. It is considered to be the script used to record the original texts of the Hebrew Bible due to its similarity to the Samaritan script, as the Talmud stated that the Hebrew ancient script was still used by the Sa…


The Paleo-Hebrew and Phoenician alphabets developed in the wake of the Bronze Age collapse, out of their immediate predecessor script Proto-Canaanite (Late Proto-Sinaitic) during the 13th to 12th centuries BCE, and earlier Proto-Sinaitic scripts. 


The Paleo-Hebrew script (Hebrew: הכתב העברי הקדום‎), also Palaeo-Hebrew, Proto-Hebrew or Old Hebrew, is the writing system found in Canaanite inscriptions from the region of Biblical Israel and Judah. It is considered to be the script used to record the original texts of the Hebrew Bible due to its similarity to the Samaritan script, as the Talmud stated that the Hebrew ancient script was still used by the Samaritans.[1] The Talmud described it as the "Libona'a script" (Hebrew: ליבונאה‎), translated by some as "Lebanon script".[2] Use of the term "Paleo-Hebrew alphabet" is due to a 1954 suggestion by Solomon Birnbaum, who argued that "[t]o apply the term Phoenician to the script of the Hebrews is hardly suitable".[3]

Wiki


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> Historic record of Arabic language
> prior to 5th century BCE...
> 
> anyone?



There were NO Christians in the 5th century BC.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> There were NO Christians in the 5th century BC.



So no historic record of Arabic language
prior to the 5th century?


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> So no historic record of Arabic language
> prior to the 5th century?



Languages evolve. You know that. Proto Hebrew was Canaanite.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> Languages evolve. You know that. Proto Hebrew was Canaanite.



So your earlier claim about a
 "8,000 y.o. Arabic writing monument" was false?

Notice how desperately you try to switch the topic,
ditch your outlandish claims and ignore the questions.


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> So your earlier claim about a
> "8,000 y.o. Arabic writing monument" was false?
> 
> Notice how you're trying to switch to anything but the topic,
> ...



I haven't seen the 8,000 year old monuments. Its some form of proto arabic. They have even found pharonic writings in northwestern arabia.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 27, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> The word "Semitic" means "of an Arab language group", coming from Shem, a son of Noah.
> So in Biblical terms, Arab go back to the sons of Noah.
> So are Hebrew Semitic or not?
> If Hebrew are Semitic, then they are Arabs.
> ...


Honestly if I were you I’d stop responding and embarrassing yourself further  
Websters.com
noun
a subfamily of Afroasiatic languages that includes Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Hebrew, and Phoenician. Abbreviations: Sem, Sem.
adjective
of or relating to the Semites or their languages.
*of, relating to, or characteristic of the Jews; Jewish.*


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Honestly if I were you I’d stop responding and embarrassing yourself further
> Websters.com
> noun
> a subfamily of Afroasiatic languages that includes Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Hebrew, and Phoenician. Abbreviations: Sem, Sem.
> ...



You left out Syriac and Amharic.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> I haven't seen the 8,000 year old monuments. Its some form of proto arabic. They have even found pharonic writings in northwestern arabia.



All that mambo jambo
so far and no link?

got it... Big Mouth.


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> All that mambo jambo
> so far and no link?
> 
> got it... Big Mouth.



There are many links about proto Hebrew/Canaanite and proto Arabic as well as Syriac, Amharic, Aramaic etc, but I doubt any of them would be acceptable to you.


----------



## Roudy (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> You left out Syriac and Amharic.


Whatever, that’s the definition Webster’s provides. Point is both Arabs, Jews and other middle eastern people in general (not all, Persians for example consider themselves Aryans, Iran means land of the Aryans) are considered Semitic people.  This supremacist idiot for some reason thinks all roads lead to Arabs.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> There are many links about proto Hebrew/Canaanite and proto Arabic as well as Syriac, Amharic, Aramaic etc, but I doubt any of them would be acceptable to you.



So no link to support your mambo jambo?

Got it...

BIG MOUTH


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

Roudy said:


> Whatever, that’s the definition Webster’s provides. Point is both Arabs, Jews and other middle eastern people in general (not all, Persians for example consider themselves Aryans, Iran means land of the Aryans) are considered Semitic people.  This supremacist idiot for some reason thinks all roads lead to Arabs.



Not all certainly but the arabs did migrate very early to Mesopotamia. I don't think of Persians as arabs although some are.


----------



## surada (Oct 27, 2021)

rylah said:


> So far all that mambo jambo and no link?
> 
> Got it...
> 
> BIG MOUTH



Obviously you need to feel superior. Be my guest.


----------



## rylah (Oct 27, 2021)

surada said:


> Obviously you need to feel superior. Be my guest.




Do you feel inferior when pointed to your mistakes?
It would actually make you look more sincere,
and personally stronger to admit them.


----------



## DudleySmith (Oct 28, 2021)

Rigby5 said:


> No significant disagreement from me.
> I agree that the basis of all Semitic languages, Old Arabic, originated from the Levant and not the Arabian Peninsula.
> However I would say that since all humans came out of Africa less than 100,000 years ago, the early Europeans likely were also darker.
> I think it is more inbreeding that lightened skin color.



Actually there is little proof of the 'Out Of Africa' theory; trying to use genetics as a dating timeline runs into a lot of problems, and more an more evidence is showing human being older than previously thought and scattered too widely to have come from a single source, and the mathematics of evolution just don't work, especially when it comes to producing sustainable populations at the beginning points.


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 28, 2021)

surada said:


> Muhammed was a caravan leader for his first wife's company. I don't know about slaves.. They say the same thing about the Khazars being slavers.


   Mo was a caravan robber before he snagged the rich old widow.    The 
   Jewish country of Khazars is a story book-----have you ever heard of the very 
   famous Medieval poet   JEHUDAH HALEVI?      Dyslexia is part and parcel 
   of my profession.    Even dense dyslexics learn a bit of literacy when 
   in the company of LITERATES.     That muhammad was a hot shot BUSINESSMAN 
   rubbing shoulders with literate Zoroastrians, Jews and Christians but never 
   learned to read and write is LUDICROUS-----he was an  ISHMAILI


----------



## irosie91 (Oct 28, 2021)

The Lenilenape Indians originated in Siberia


----------



## surada (Feb 15, 2022)

aris2chat said:


> Many muslims like to believe history began with islam.
> It does not matter that Mohammad was taught about christianity and jesus by a monk, or the torah and psalms by rabbis.
> Anything before Islam was jahiliyyah, period of ignorance


What a silly lie.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

rylah said:


> Akkadian is an East Semitic language,
> Arabic is a Central Semitic language.
> 
> Read your own link, it contradict;s your mistake.



We were never talking about Arabic, but Old Arabic and other previous Arab languages.
Hebrew is considered a Semitic language because it came from earlier Arab languages.
If Hebrew had not come from earlier Arab language, then Hebrew and Jews would not be Semitic.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

rylah said:


> Notice how desperately you're trying to switch the topic.
> 
> so
> 
> ...still no record of Arabic prior to century BCE?



No one was ever discussing a modern language like Arabic.
We have always been discussing the older Arab languages that Hebrew derived from.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

rylah said:


> Historic record of Arabic language
> prior to 5th century BCE...
> 
> anyone?



Since we have written Arab languages going back to before 8000 BC in Jericho, you clearly are wrong.
You keep trying to derail your mistake by using "Arabic" when everyone else is talking about early Arab languages.
And it is not working.
Your attempt at deception is obvious.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> The Lenilenape Indians originated in Siberia



But all who left Africa likely went through the Levant.
Considering boats likely were invented later.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

aris2chat said:


> Many muslims like to believe history began with islam.
> It does not matter that Mohammad was taught about christianity and jesus by a monk, or the torah and psalms by rabbis.
> Anything before Islam was jahiliyyah, period of ignorance



That is ridiculous because all Moslems believe in the Old Testament, which is thousands of years older than Islam.

You really also should learn to capitalize proper nouns, like Muslims, Islam, Christianity, Jesus, etc.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 15, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> That is ridiculous because all Moslems believe in the Old Testament, which is thousands of years older than Islam.
> 
> You really also should learn to capitalize proper nouns, like Muslims, Islam, Christianity, Jesus, etc.


   try again----for muslims the "OLD" testament is a 
   FRAUD----being altered continuously for the sake 
   of  "ZIONISM"------the  "NEW"  testament is even 
   a more horrific FRAUD.   I learned his stuff in a 
   mosque


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> ,,, Another ---somewhat obscure idea is that Hebrew as a language is a dialect of Arabic.
> It is an ethnocentric concept



Wrong.
No one ever said Hebrew was a dialect of Arabic.
The reality is that Hebrew derived from older Arab languages.
Since Arabic is a modern language, obviously no one was ever talking about Arabic.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 15, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> We were never talking about Arabic, but Old Arabic and other previous Arab languages.
> Hebrew is considered a Semitic language because it came from earlier Arab languages.
> If Hebrew had not come from earlier Arab language, then Hebrew and Jews would not be Semitic.


   you are confused----you are EQUATING the word 
   "semitic"  with  arabic


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> Yup----Europe became LITERATE much much later than did the
> middle and far east.   The muslims became literate much much later
> than did the non muslims of the middle and far east---MUCH MUCH MUCH
> much later.       "ISLAM"  has nothing to do with keeping literacy and
> ...



Wrong.
Europe fell into what is known as the Dark Ages after the fall of the Roman Empire, around 500 AD.
Europe remained essentially illiterate except for a few monasteries, until around 1200 AD or even later.
The Quran is clear that all Moslems must try to be literate, including women.
So you not only are wrong, but deliberately lying.

{...
In the period, that western history has come to call the Dark Ages, the love affair between Baghdad and books began.  In a time when churches across Europe felt themselves fortunate to have a library consisting of several books, there was a street in Baghdad lined with more then 100 shops, each selling books, stationary, or both.  Across the western world, literacy was restricted to the rich or religious authorities, but in Baghdad, the people had access to more then 30 libraries.

Within 200 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad, the small Islamic nation grew into an Empire that stretched from North Africa to Arabia, from Persia to Uzbekistan and pushed onwards to the frontiers of India and beyond.  Around 750CE Baghdad, the city built on the banks of the Tigris River was established as the capital of the Islamic empire.  Its location connected it to countries as far away as China, and Baghdad soon became not only the political and administrative centre but also the hub of culture and learning. 

Men and women from all parts of the Empire flocked to Baghdad and brought with them knowledge from the far corners of the known world.   

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and even people from other more obscure faiths lived in Baghdad.  Books began to symbolise life of Baghdad.  The streets were alive with authors, translators, scribes, illuminators, librarians, binders, collectors, and sellers.  However, these people from such diverse backgrounds need to be connected.  Arabic developed as the language of scholarship and the connection was established.

The works of Plato, Aristotle, Ptolemy, and Plutarch among many others were translated into Arabic.  Jewish philosophers used Arabic translations of Greek philosophical works to write their own treatise and essays.  When Europe began to emerge from the Dark Ages into a period of enlightenment, they relied on books written in Arabic to redeem and reclaim the foundations of the Western empire.

Many of the original books translated in Baghdad were lost or destroyed in their home countries, and remained only in their Arabic translations.  The scholars of Baghdad were responsible for preserving classical works from the Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians and even translated classics from Persia, India and China.  These great works were then translated from Arabic back into languages such as Turkish, Persian, Hebrew, and Latin. Catholic theologian, Thomas Aquinas made his famous integration of faith and reason after reading Aristotle’s philosophy in a translation by Baghdad scholars.

The scholars of Baghdad not only collected and synthesised the great works, they added to the body of knowledge.  They opened up new fields of scholarship, such as celestial mechanics, and introduced the world to algebra and geometry.  A Baghdad scholar produced an ophthalmology textbook, believed the world’s first medical book containing anatomical drawings.  It was the definitive work in both the east and west, and was used for more than eight centuries.
...}








						Literacy in Islam (part 3 of 3): Education for all, Literacy in Islam (part 2 of 3): Seeking Knowledge, Literacy in Islam (part 1 of 3): Books in Baghdad
					

Education in early Islamic history., The first revealed word of the Quran began a legacy of literacy and education for all., Even war and occupation cannot erase Baghdad’s legacy of literacy.



					www.islamreligion.com


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> you are confused----you are EQUATING the word
> "semitic"  with  arabic



No, YOU are lying.
I am equating the word "Semitic" with "of an Arab language group" as it correctly means.
That fact you continually try to substitute "arabic" when I use "Arab" shows a deliberate attempt to deceive.
You do not even seem to be able to keep your capitalization correct.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 15, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> No, YOU are lying.
> I am equating the word "Semitic" with "of an Arab language group" as it correctly means.
> That fact you continually try to substitute "arabic" when I use "Arab" shows a deliberate attempt to deceive.
> You do not even seem to be able to keep your capitalization correct.


you continue your idiotic sophistry.    SEMITIC as a language group does not mean  "ARABIC LANGUAGE 
GROUP"  ---it means  "Semitic language group"


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 15, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> you continue your idiotic sophistry.    SEMITIC as a language group does not mean  "ARABIC LANGUAGE
> GROUP"  ---it means  "Semitic language group"



You are still lying.
No one ever said that Semitic means and Arabic language group, but that Semitic means an ARAB language group.
All Semitic languages are of Arab origins.
It is by tracing language, that they determined the original Hebrew tribes had to be Arabs.
Hebrew is of Arab origins.
Semitic means from Shem, a son of Noah, who is supposed to be the father of all Arabs.
It does not mean Hebrew, since the Hebrew were only a very tiny offshoot of the descendants of Shem, all of the Arabs.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> You are still lying.
> No one ever said that Semitic means and Arabic language group, but that Semitic means an ARAB language group.
> All Semitic languages are of Arab origins.
> It is by tracing language, that they determined the original Hebrew tribes had to be Arabs.
> ...


wrong again-----"arab"  refers to an area way off-----
way off in the horizon------and is of hebrew origin---long before "arabic"  was a written language.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> wrong again-----"arab"  refers to an area way off-----
> way off in the horizon------and is of hebrew origin---long before "arabic"  was a written language.



Totally wrong.
It does not matter what the word Arab translates to.
The point is the people who went to the Arabian Peninsula first lived in the Levant, and are the ancestors of the Hebrew.
That is done, proven, science.
Nothing is of Hebrew origins, because the Hebrew were a small and insignificant offshoot of the main group, which is Arab.
And Hebrew was one of the last languages to have a written script.
The Hebrew tribes used Aramaic, which is of Arab origins, until around the year 0.
Only then is there a written Hebrew script.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Totally wrong.
> It does not matter what the word Arab translates to.
> The point is the people who went to the Arabian Peninsula first lived in the Levant, and are the ancestors of the Hebrew.
> That is done, proven, science.
> ...


   wrong again.    The statement   "... people who went to the arabian penninsula first lived in the Levant..."  
is meaningless.     Hebrew had a written script long 
before arabic.    "the Hebrew tribes"  used Aramaic 
picked up in Babylon----Babylon was a dominant 
power LONG before the development of arabic script 
-----aramaic script is not even related to arabic script


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> You are still lying.
> No one ever said that Semitic means and Arabic language group, but that Semitic means an ARAB language group.
> All Semitic languages are of Arab origins.
> It is by tracing language, that they determined the original Hebrew tribes had to be Arabs.
> ...


The Akkadians had a written language long before Abraham. Now Jewish scholars are using the Ugarit texts to translate Hebrew


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Somewhere along the line, islamic sophists decided to 
PUSH the concept of   "mecca" as the cradle of 
western civilization-----sorry folks---it is still MESOPOTAMIA and its precincts   (with the Nile valley thrown in)


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> wrong again.    The statement   "... people who went to the arabian penninsula first lived in the Levant..."
> is meaningless.     Hebrew had a written script long
> before arabic.    "the Hebrew tribes"  used Aramaic
> picked up in Babylon----Babylon was a dominant
> ...



The Arabs are the first inhabitants in the Levant, before anyone lived in the Arabian Peninsula.
The Hebrew came later, as a branch of Arabs.
Hebrew were Arabs, and spoke an Arab vocal language.
When they had to write, they wrote in an Arab language.
Hebrew had no written language until at least 100 BC, and the Hebrew used other Arab written languages before then.
Arabs created the whole idea of a phonetic script.
Aramaic is an Arab language.
Babylonian is an Arab language and Babylonians are Arab.
Arabic IS related to Aramaic.

This chart only shows Arab languages.


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> try again----for muslims the "OLD" testament is a
> FRAUD----being altered continuously for the sake
> of  "ZIONISM"------the  "NEW"  testament is even
> a more horrific FRAUD.   I learned his stuff in a
> mosque


.   Nope. Muslims rever the patriarchs.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> Somewhere along the line, islamic sophists decided to
> PUSH the concept of   "mecca" as the cradle of
> western civilization-----sorry folks---it is still MESOPOTAMIA and its precincts   (with the Nile valley thrown in)



{...
The *Akkadian Empire* (/əˈkeɪdiən/)[4] was the first ancient empire of Mesopotamia after the long-lived civilization of Sumer. It was centered in the city of Akkad (/ˈækæd/)[5] and its surrounding region. The empire united Akkadian and Sumerian speakers under one rule. The Akkadian Empire exercised influence across Mesopotamia, the Levant, and Anatolia, sending military expeditions as far south as Dilmun and Magan (modern Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Oman) in the Arabian Peninsula.[6]

The Akkadian Empire reached its political peak between the 24th and 22nd centuries BC, following the conquests by its founder Sargon of Akkad.[7] Under Sargon and his successors, the Akkadian language was briefly imposed on neighboring conquered states such as Elam and Gutium. Akkad is sometimes regarded as the first empire in history, though the meaning of this term is not precise, and there are earlier Sumerian claimants.[8][9]

After the fall of the Akkadian Empire, the people of Mesopotamia eventually coalesced into two major Akkadian-speaking nations: Assyria in the north, and Babylonia in the south.
...}

The Akkadians were Arab.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> {...
> The *Akkadian Empire* (/əˈkeɪdiən/)[4] was the first ancient empire of Mesopotamia after the long-lived civilization of Sumer. It was centered in the city of Akkad (/ˈækæd/)[5] and its surrounding region. The empire united Akkadian and Sumerian speakers under one rule. The Akkadian Empire exercised influence across Mesopotamia, the Levant, and Anatolia, sending military expeditions as far south as Dilmun and Magan (modern Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Oman) in the Arabian Peninsula.[6]
> 
> The Akkadian Empire reached its political peak between the 24th and 22nd centuries BC, following the conquests by its founder Sargon of Akkad.[7] Under Sargon and his successors, the Akkadian language was briefly imposed on neighboring conquered states such as Elam and Gutium. Akkad is sometimes regarded as the first empire in history, though the meaning of this term is not precise, and there are earlier Sumerian claimants.[8][9]
> ...


the statement   "...the Akkadians were 'arab'  "   is utterly senseless.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> No one ever said Hebrew was a dialect of Arabic.
> The reality is that Hebrew derived from older Arab languages.
> Since Arabic is a modern language, obviously no one was ever talking about Arabic.


I understand  your POV----I have been in mosques 
and listened to the excruciating sophistry of the  
Khutbah Jumaat feces flings-------Adam was a arabic 
speaking muslim too.    ------and RAMSES was an "arab"


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> the statement   "...the Akkadians were 'arab'  "   is utterly senseless.


 They were Arab from the Arabian peninsula.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> .   Nope. Muslims rever the patriarchs.


try again----muslims revere the ISLAMIC 
VERSION of the patriarchs ----who were arabic speaking muslims and happily ate camel burgers


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> No one was ever discussing a modern language like Arabic.
> We have always been discussing the older Arab languages that Hebrew derived from.


surada agrees that the EGYPTIAN LANGUAGE OF 
Ramses was an  "older arab language"   and Muhummad invented lemons and pita


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> try again----muslims revere the ISLAMIC
> VERSION of the patriarchs ----who were arabic speaking muslims and happily ate camel burgers


Arabs believe that anyone who submits to the will of God is a Muslim.   https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/wap.html


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> They were Arab from the Arabian peninsula.


you are confusing  MESOPOTAMIA for province of 
Mecca.     It's ok----Brighten Beach,  Brooklyn originated the gourmet food----BLINIS AND CAVIAR 
too


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> you are confusing  MESOPOTAMIA for province of
> Mecca.     It's ok----Brighten Beach,  Brooklyn originated the gourmet food----BLINIS AND CAVIAR
> too


Nope. The Akkadians originated in Arabia.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> Arabs believe that anyone who submits to the will of God is a Muslim.   https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/wap.html


so?     in the sunday school of the local 
episcoplian church of my childhood----the adult 
lady who was the teacher in the basement of 
that church presented the easter bunny as the 
dispenser of jelly beans


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> so?     in the sunday school of the local
> episcoplian church of my childhood----the adult
> lady who was the teacher in the basement of
> that church presented the easter bunny as the
> dispenser of jelly beans


Does your husband admire your vulgarity?  The Akkadians left the Arabian peninsula some 8000 years ago. 
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/wap.html


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> the statement   "...the Akkadians were 'arab'  "   is utterly senseless.



Akkadians still exist and can be found in Palestine, Iraq, etc., and they have been genetically identified as Arab.
But all you have to do is trace language.
Akkadian spoke a native Semitic language, meaning they then pretty much had to be Arab.
Semitic means of Arab origins.
That is by definition.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> so?     in the sunday school of the local
> episcoplian church of my childhood----the adult
> lady who was the teacher in the basement of
> that church presented the easter bunny as the
> dispenser of jelly beans



The Quran is very clear that both Christianity and Judaism are essentially the same religions because they are "Brothers of the Book", meaning they share the exact same Old Testament.
Mohammad said that Judaism and Christianity were valid paths to heaven.
They were to not be molested.


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The Quran is very clear that both Christianity and Judaism are essentially the same religions because they are "Brothers of the Book", meaning they share the exact same Old Testament.
> Mohammad said that Judaism and Christianity were valid paths to heaven.
> They were to not be molested.











						Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites
					

After examining the DNA of 93 bodies recovered from archaeological sites around the southern Levant, the land of Canaan in the Bible, researchers have concluded




					www.biblicalarchaeology.org


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> Does your husband admire your vulgarity?  The Akkadians left the Arabian peninsula some 8000 years ago.
> https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/wap.html



From the link:

{...
By the eighth millennium B.C., the previously savanna-like grasslands of the region had given way to an arid desert environment. The earliest people enter the western Arabian Peninsula from the Levant. By 5000 B.C., settlements appear in Qatar in the east, where flint tools—similar to those used in the Levant—are found alongside pottery from southern Mesopotamia. 
...}


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The Quran is very clear that both Christianity and Judaism are essentially the same religions because they are "Brothers of the Book", meaning they share the exact same Old Testament.
> Mohammad said that Judaism and Christianity were valid paths to heaven.
> They were to not be molested.


sheeeesh----surad agrees.    Both she and Rigs forgot 
that I have lots of relatives who SURVIVED (and dear 
departed)    "the non-molestation"    policies of Shariah law in the lands 
of their births which had been invaded by loving 
"arabs"


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

Thanks. 





Rigby5 said:


> From the link:
> 
> {...
> By the eighth millennium B.C., the previously savanna-like grasslands of the region had given way to an arid desert environment. The earliest people enter the western Arabian Peninsula from the Levant. By 5000 B.C., settlements appear in Qatar in the east, where flint tools—similar to those used in the Levant—are found alongside pottery from southern Mesopotamia.
> ...}


Thanks. I am using a tablet temporarily and there's lots I can't do.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> From the link:
> 
> {...
> By the eighth millennium B.C., the previously savanna-like grasslands of the region had given way to an arid desert environment. The earliest people enter the western Arabian Peninsula from the Levant. By 5000 B.C., settlements appear in Qatar in the east, where flint tools—similar to those used in the Levant—are found alongside pottery from southern Mesopotami





Rigby5 said:


> ...}


SO?    human migrations ON THE PLANET of ten 
thousand years ago  are unrelated to the development of the CULTURES AND 
LANGUAGES that exist today or even 7000 years 
ago.        and the amphioxus has a rudimentary thyroid gland but does not read and write arabic


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> Does your husband admire your vulgarity?  The Akkadians left the Arabian peninsula some 8000 years ago.
> https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/wap.html


   were I "vulgar"  he would be distressed.   His 
   cultural background is very genteel.   He is an 
   escapee from the barbarity of islamic conquest


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> were I "vulgar"  he would be distressed.   His
> cultural background is very genteel.   He is an
> escapee from the barbarity of islamic conquest


The Saudis are very genteel.. and Lebanese imo.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> The Saudis are very genteel.. and Lebanese imo.


So?        The few Saudis I have known were genteel 
and kinda disdainful of their "state"----the many Lebanese I have known were, largely,  either christians or jews and they did not self-ID as  "arabs"


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites
> 
> 
> After examining the DNA of 93 bodies recovered from archaeological sites around the southern Levant, the land of Canaan in the Bible, researchers have concluded
> ...



And it makes the most sense to realize that Canaanite then must have been Arabs, because the remnants of Canaanites, Akkadians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Urites, Edomites, Aramaeans, Chaldeans, etc., now all consider themselves to be Arab.
The only ones who resist are the Hebrew.
And that is silly because it is only if they have Arab ancestry, that they would have any right to the Mideast at all.
If Hebrew were not of Arab ancestry, then they would have to be something like Egyptian, and have no place in the Levant at all.


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> So?        The few Saudis I have known were genteel
> and kinda disdainful of their "state"----the many Lebanese I have known were, largely,  either christians or jews and they did not self-ID as  "arabs"


.  Used to go to Beirut every year. It was so nice before 1967.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Akkadians still exist and can be found in Palestine, Iraq, etc., and they have been genetically identified as Arab.
> But all you have to do is trace language.
> Akkadian spoke a native Semitic language, meaning they then pretty much had to be Arab.
> Semitic means of Arab origins.
> That is by definition.


   your statement  ^^^  is  "fruity" ---'fruity'  being 
psychiatry slang for the ideation typical of schizophrenics.     "semitic"  does not mean "of arab 
origin" ------Pita is a word derived from an ancient 
allusion to flat bread.   It was not invented by muslims


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

I think t





Rigby5 said:


> And it makes the most sense to realize that Canaanite then must have been Arabs, because the remnants of Canaanites, Akkadians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Urites, Edomites, Aramaeans, Chaldeans, etc., now all consider themselves to be Arab.
> The only ones who resist are the Hebrew.
> And that is silly because it is only if they have Arab ancestry, that they would have any right to the Mideast at all.
> If Hebrew were not of Arab ancestry, then they would have to be something like Egyptian, and have no place in the Levant at all.


I think they just announced an Egyptian fortress in Samaria.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> sheeeesh----surad agrees.    Both she and Rigs forgot
> that I have lots of relatives who SURVIVED (and dear
> departed)    "the non-molestation"    policies of Shariah law in the lands
> of their births which had been invaded by loving
> "arabs"



Wrong.
Jews not only were treated well by the Arabian Moslems, but were usually made administrators, Viziers, etc.
That is how Jews ended up in the Iberian Peninsula.
They got along well with Moslems.

For example, when the Crusaders invaded the Levant, the Jews sided with the Moslems and were murdered by Christians.


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> your statement  ^^^  is  "fruity" ---'fruity'  being
> psychiatry slang for the ideation typical of schizophrenics.     "semitic"  does not mean "of arab
> origin" ------Pita is a word derived from an ancient
> allusion to flat bread.   It was not invented by muslims


Pita is just Arab flatbread. I don't think the Europeans or Russians make pita.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> And it makes the most sense to realize that Canaanite then must have been Arabs, because the remnants of Canaanites, Akkadians, Phoenicians, Philistines, Urites, Edomites, Aramaeans, Chaldeans, etc., now all consider themselves to be Arab.
> The only ones who resist are the Hebrew.
> And that is silly because it is only if they have Arab ancestry, that they would have any right to the Mideast at all.
> If Hebrew were not of Arab ancestry, then they would have to be something like Egyptian, and have no place in the Levant at all.


suradie agreed with that  ^^^^  idiot sophistry.   ---
but it's ok------episcopalians  (anglicans)  have also 
made a case for a famlial link between the british 
royal family and  King David of ancient Israel


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> SO?    human migrations ON THE PLANET of ten
> thousand years ago  are unrelated to the development of the CULTURES AND
> LANGUAGES that exist today or even 7000 years
> ago.        and the amphioxus has a rudimentary thyroid gland but does not read and write arabic



Since migrations were slower back then, without ships, things 10,000 years ago are VERY related to what things were like 7,000 years ago.

And we NEVER were talking about "Arabic".
We have always been discussing earlier Arab languages, like Old Arabic, Akkadians, Aramaic, Babylonian, etc., all of which are classified as Arab languages.


----------



## Sunni Man (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> *  He is an
> escapee from the barbarity of islamic conquest*


You have stated before that your hubby was a baby when his parents migrated from a muslim majority country.
Kind of silly for you now to claim an infant escaped.   ...


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> suradie agreed with that  ^^^^  idiot sophistry.   ---
> but it's ok------episcopalians  (anglicans)  have also
> made a case for a famlial link between the british
> royal family and  King David of ancient Israel


Lol  British Israelites? That's an asinine parlor game.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> Jews not only were treated well by the Arabian Moslems, but were usually made administrators, Viziers, etc.
> That is how Jews ended up in the Iberian Peninsula.
> They got along well with Moslems.
> ...


   oh gee -----a reprise of the Pakistani grammar school curriculum.     People go where they can find 
RELATIVE safety----that's how lots of jews ended up 
in Germany


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> your statement  ^^^  is  "fruity" ---'fruity'  being
> psychiatry slang for the ideation typical of schizophrenics.     "semitic"  does not mean "of arab
> origin" ------Pita is a word derived from an ancient
> allusion to flat bread.   It was not invented by muslims



We have never been discussing Islam.
We are discussing the origins of Arabs and Arab languages.
And Hebrew as a people and a language are clearly defined as being of Arab origins.
Arabs are traced back to the Canaanites.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> I think t
> I think they just announced an Egyptian fortress in Samaria.



The Egyptians did at times occupy portions of the Levant, but their native homeland they would have inherent right so would be along the Nile.
But it is not so clear with the Hebrew?
Since they likely did live in Egypt for over 400 years, where should their native land be considered?
We do not know where they lived before Egypt.
They built nothing and left no trace.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Sunni Man said:


> You have stated before that your hubby was an infant when his parents migrated from a muslim majority country.
> Kinda amazing for you to claim an infant escaped.   ...


  is that the BEST you can do-----SEMANTICS?   His 
family legacy is one of escape from the vile filth of 
Shariah law-----he shares that legacy with lots of 
people-----millions.   Have you ever heard of the 
genius movie director---ELIA KAZAN?    Have you ever met a SHIIITE from India with a family history from Pakistan that which is now called  "Pakistan"?


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> suradie agreed with that  ^^^^  idiot sophistry.   ---
> but it's ok------episcopalians  (anglicans)  have also
> made a case for a famlial link between the british
> royal family and  King David of ancient Israel



Yes a lot of Christians are irrational fanatics.
We do not even know if any King David actually existed?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> We have never been discussing Islam.
> We are discussing the origins of Arabs and Arab languages.
> And Hebrew as a people and a language are clearly defined as being of Arab origins.
> Arabs are traced back to the Canaanites.


   right-----and there are people who describe the 
DOME as an architectural ISLAMIC innovation and 
even a genius who insisted   PITA IS ARRRRRAAABB.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> oh gee -----a reprise of the Pakistani grammar school curriculum.     People go where they can find
> RELATIVE safety----that's how lots of jews ended up
> in Germany



Yes, the fact Germany was relatively safe for Jews is why my ancestors went there.
The reason Germany became UNSAFE, was due to Zionist traitors and the Balfour Declaration.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Yes a lot of Christians are irrational fanatics.
> We do not even know if any King David actually existed?


   "we" are not quite sure that MUHUMMAD existed


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> The Egyptians did at times occupy portions of the Levant, but their native homeland they would have inherent right so would be along the Nile.
> But it is not so clear with the Hebrew?
> Since they likely did live in Egypt for over 400 years, where should their native land be considered?
> We do not know where they lived before Egypt.
> They built nothing and left no trace.


They were north coast Canaanites from Syria.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Yes, the fact Germany was relatively safe for Jews is why my ancestors went there.
> The reason Germany became UNSAFE, was due to Zionist traitors and the Balfour Declaration.


another fragment of khutbah jumaat feces


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> is that the BEST you can do-----SEMANTICS?   His
> family legacy is one of escape from the vile filth of
> Shariah law-----he shares that legacy with lots of
> people-----millions.   Have you ever heard of the
> genius movie director---ELIA KAZAN?    Have you ever met a SHIIITE from India with a family history from Pakistan that which is now called  "Pakistan"?



While I do not care for Sharia Law that much, it is a good starting place, considering its timeline.
And it is also praise worthy for people who remain faithful to something for so long.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> right-----and there are people who describe the
> DOME as an architectural ISLAMIC innovation and
> even a genius who insisted   PITA IS ARRRRRAAABB.



While I know the Romans had domes and flatbread, I do not know where they got it from?
Could be from Arabs.
Arabs were there over 5000 years before Rome.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> They were north coast Canaanites from Syria.



That makes sense, because if they were further south, then the Jordan River would have made drought unlikely.
And the Hebrew were likely trying to escape a drought when they went to Egypt.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> another fragment of khutbah jumaat feces



Do you deny that German Zionists negotiating for the Balfour Declaration with the British, would have to be traitors to Germany?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> They were north coast Canaanites from Syria.


allspice  is Mayan-----but vital in the cookery of 
the gourd plant-----including pumpkin pie invented 
by  MILES STANDISH


surada said:


> Pita is just Arab flatbread. I don't think the Europeans or Russians make pita.


   blini and caviar in the USA ------is a prized food 
amongst some jews of Brooklyn.    Leavened flat 
bread predates islam and muhummad  (if he really 
existed)      The ancient word for such bread is  
something like   "PAT"  ----it can be found in the 
parts of the Talmud which predates written arabic.  
Europeans and Russians, certainly did make various 
sorts of leavened flatbread


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Do you deny that German Zionists negotiating for the Balfour Declaration with the British, would have to be traitors to Germany?


   to which "german zionists"   do you refer?


----------



## Sunni Man (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> *is that the BEST you can do-----SEMANTICS? *


For the boards Queen of Semantics to accuse another poster of resorting to semantics is quite comical.  ...


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> to which "german zionists"   do you refer?


still waiting----I am having trouble finding those 
german zionists who were negotiating with the 
British regarding the  "BALFOUR DECLARATION"


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Sunni Man said:


> For the boards Queen of Semantics to accuse another poster of using semantics is quite comical.  ...


thanks-----I AM A "QUEEN"  ----reminds me of a 
muslim who decided that I must be fluent in arabic 
because I could recite the hebrew alphabet.  -----
you got an example of my QUEENLY descriptions 
which depend on perverse use of "semantics" ?


----------



## Sunni Man (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> thanks-----I AM A "QUEEN"  ----reminds me of a
> muslim who decided that I must be fluent in arabic
> because I could recite the hebrew alphabet.  -----
> you got an example of my QUEENLY descriptions
> which depend on perverse use of "semantics" ?


Obviously, you need to ask your mental health professional to increase your prozac or lithium dosage.  ...


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> allspice  is Mayan-----but vital in the cookery of
> the gourd plant-----including pumpkin pie invented
> by  MILES STANDISH
> 
> ...



Interesting information, but still, Arabs were literate before Hebrew had a written script.
For example, some of the Old Testament is written in Aramaic, with is Arab.
None of the Bible is written in Hebrew.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> to which "german zionists"   do you refer?



Chaim Weizmann and David ben Gurion.
While David ben Gurion was born in Russian Poland, he was the main negotiator with Hitler, for German Jews.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Interesting information, but still, Arabs were literate before Hebrew had a written script.
> For example, some of the Old Testament is written in Aramaic, with is Arab.
> None of the Bible is written in Hebrew.


most of the bible  (OT) is written in Hebrew----some of it is written in Aramaic which is not Arabic.    Even today the of majority people who identify as  "arab"----and the larger group associated with arabic---to wit MUSLIMS,  are still ---mostly, illiterate


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Chaim Weizmann and David ben Gurion.
> While David ben Gurion was born in Russian Poland, he was the main negotiator with Hitler, for German Jews.


neither were german jews


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Sunni Man said:


> Obviously, you need to ask your mental health professional to increase your prozac or lithium dosage.  ...


you failed to address the question-----to wit---my 
QUEENLY perversion of semantics?


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> most of the bible  (OT) is written in Hebrew----some of it is written in Aramaic which is not Arabic.    Even today the of majority people who identify as  "arab"----and the larger group associated with arabic---to wit MUSLIMS,  are still ---mostly, illiterate



Since Hebrew did not have a written script until around 50 BC, then you are claiming the Old Testament was not written in its time.
But clearly the Old Testament was written before Hebrew had a script.

{...
The first five books – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, book of Numbers and Deuteronomy – reached their present form in the Persian period (538–332 BC), and their authors were the elite of exilic returnees who controlled the Temple at that time.[17] The books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings follow, forming a history of Israel from the Conquest of Canaan to the Siege of Jerusalem c. 587 BC. There is a broad consensus among scholars that these originated as a single work (the so-called "Deuteronomistic History") during the Babylonian exile of the 6th century BC.[18]

The two Books of Chronicles cover much the same material as the Pentateuch and Deuteronomistic history and probably date from the 4th century BC.[19] Chronicles, and Ezra–Nehemiah, was probably finished during the 3rd century BC.[20] Catholic and Orthodox Old Testaments contain two (Catholic Old Testament) to four (Orthodox) Books of Maccabees, written in the 2nd and 1st centuries BC.

These history books make up around half the total content of the Old Testament. Of the remainder, the books of the various prophets – Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the twelve "minor prophets" – were written between the 8th and 6th centuries BC, with the exceptions of Jonah and Daniel, which were written much later.[21] The "wisdom" books – Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Psalms, Song of Solomon – have various dates: Proverbs possibly was completed by the Hellenistic time (332–198 BC), though containing much older material as well; Job completed by the 6th century BC; Ecclesiastes by the 3rd century BC.[22]
...}








						Old Testament - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> neither were german jews



{...
In 1892, Weizmann left for Germany to study chemistry at the Polytechnic Institute of Darmstadt. To earn a living, he worked as a Hebrew teacher at an Orthodox Jewish boarding school.[5] In 1894, he moved to Berlin to study at the Technische Hochschule Berlin.
...}


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Since Hebrew did not have a written script until around 50 BC, then you are claiming the Old Testament was not written in its time.
> But clearly the Old Testament was written before Hebrew had a script.
> 
> {...
> ...


your history is entirely incorrect-----in fact--PSYCHOTIC


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> {...
> In 1892, Weizmann left for Germany to study chemistry at the Polytechnic Institute of Darmstadt. To earn a living, he worked as a Hebrew teacher at an Orthodox Jewish boarding school.[5] In 1894, he moved to Berlin to study at the Technische Hochschule Berlin.
> ...}


  SO?


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> your history is entirely incorrect-----in fact--PSYCHOTIC



Wrong.
{... This article (about Hebrew script) is about the alphabet derived from the Aramaic alphabet (CE 135) ...}

So what we consider Hebrew, had no script until 135 BC.
The previous language the Old Testament is written in is sometimes call "Old Hebrew" by some, but is really Aramaic.
If we could find anything written by Moses, it would have been in Egyptian.


----------



## Rigby5 (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> SO?



So Chaim Weizmann moved to Berlin and became a German citizen.
From there he learned how to make synthetic acetone for the production of cordite explosive, and he traded that knowledge to the British in exchange for the Balfour Declaration.  That made him a traitor to Germany.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> Wrong.
> {... This article (about Hebrew script) is about the alphabet derived from the Aramaic alphabet (CE 135) ...}
> 
> So what we consider Hebrew, had no script until 135 BC.
> ...


   what article?


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> allspice  is Mayan-----but vital in the cookery of
> the gourd plant-----including pumpkin pie invented
> by  MILES STANDISH
> 
> ...


I wouldn't know. We got caviar fresh from Iran.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

Rigby5 said:


> So Chaim Weizmann moved to Berlin and became a German citizen.
> From there he learned how to make synthetic acetone for the production of cordite explosive, and he traded that knowledge to the British in exchange for the Balfour Declaration.  That made him a traitor to Germany.


   so?      and that is the origin of the filth of  
   shariah law which renders land ownership by jews 
   ILLEGAL and rape and  murder of jews LEGAL?


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> I wouldn't know. We got caviar fresh from Iran.


   so?


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> so?      and that is the origin of the filth of
> shariah law which renders land ownership by jews
> ILLEGAL and rape and  murder of jews LEGAL?


The Jews were also encouraged to kill the neighbors.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> The Jews were also encouraged to kill the neighbors.


   "the jews were encouraged to kill neighbors"  ----
I missed that lesson.    How does one say   "KILL 
YOUR NEIGHBOR"  in hebrew?    You seem to confuse 
Jewish law with that of the episcopalian  crusaders


----------



## surada (Feb 16, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> "the jews were encouraged to kill neighbors"  ----
> I missed that lesson.    How does one say   "KILL
> YOUR NEIGHBOR"  in hebrew?    You seem to confuse
> Jewish law with that of the episcopalian  crusaders


Read the Bible. They were told to kill the Canaanites and steal their land.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 16, 2022)

surada said:


> Read the Bible. They were told to kill the Canaanites and steal their land.


   I read the bible.    My father was in the USA navy 
   during World War II------he was told to kill 
   Germans on ships with torpedos.     Your sunday 
   school teachers forgot to tell you that the people 
   called----"children of israel"  were involved in war 
   with specific  "tribes"  of canaanites even before 
   their migration to Egypt


----------



## Pogo (Feb 20, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> the fact is as I have been told is that
> ARABIC has changed something like ENGLISH changed ---over the past 2000
> years----to the extent that even today Arabic in different countries -----is SO DIFFERENT that people from Morocco cannot talk to people from Saudi Arabia.



You need to find new sources to get you told because that's complete bullshit.  I hung with Arabic speakers some of whom were Moroccan or Algerian, others Egyptian or Sudanese, and they ALL spoke Arabic among themselves without issue.  Obviously as with any language there are dialects, accents and expressions particular to an area, like the English of the US and that of the UK, but it's _clearly _mutually intelligible.  _If it were not it would be called different languages. _


----------



## Pogo (Feb 20, 2022)

Roudy said:


> Off topic again. The Jooos....the Joooos....the Joooos!  It's always the Joooooos.
> 
> Sick.



I know right?  The Moooslims....the Mooooslims....the Mooooslims!  It's always the Mooooooslims.  
Sick.


----------



## Pogo (Feb 20, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> actually---the practice of infanticide in arabia [sic] -----was an ARAB thing----Christians
> and jews [sic] did not so engage in the barbarism of the people of arabia [sic] who eventually
> became the barbaric muslims [sic]



Uh.... really?

Cue Psalm 137:9, Old Testes:
>> Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks! <<

I'm afraid that's both Christians _and _Jews. Want to talk about stonings?  

How 'bout a Dollop of Deuteronomy...
>> “Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy.... break down their altars, smash their pillars, hew down their sacred poles and burn their idols with fire. For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples of the earth.” (7:1-6)

_Further down, in 21_:
>> “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.<<

_And then in 22_;
>> “If . . . the charge [that the bride was not a virgin on her wedding night] is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.” <<

_BUT WAIT -- there's also Leviticus.  NOW how much would you pay._..
>> Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.<<

_"Numbers" agrees_:
>> While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation. They put him in custody, because it had not been made clear what should be done to him. And the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” And all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses. <<

_Not to be left out, Exodus proclaims_:
>> Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.<<

_Now Joshua, that guy is very particular to designate the weapon of choice_:
>> And Joshua said, “Why did you bring trouble on us? The Lord brings trouble on you today.” And all Israel stoned him with stones. They burned them with fire and stoned them with stones. <<

Apparently there was a lot of stoning with kumquats and stoning with bananas going on.  Good to get that cleared up.

Also, I understand Slavery was a cool thing.  Thus spake the Cult of the Lost Cause too.


----------



## irosie91 (Feb 20, 2022)

Pogo said:


> You need to find new sources to get you told because that's complete bullshit.  I hung with Arabic speakers some of whom were Moroccan or Algerian, others Egyptian or Sudanese, and they ALL spoke Arabic among themselves without issue.  Obviously as with any language there are dialects, accents and expressions particular to an area, like the English of the US and that of the UK, but it's _clearly _mutually intelligible.  _If it were not it would be called different languages. _


silly pogoid.    Morocco and Algeria are virtually THE SAME LAND.    They would have probably been even more comfortable in French.    At issue would be two 
illiterates -----one from Egypt and the other from Mauritania STRUGGLING to communicate.   There is,  TODAY,  a standard college level arabic which is 
virtually a foreign language to the average Bedouin 
and his sheep


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## Pogo (Mar 1, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> silly pogoid.    Morocco and Algeria are virtually THE SAME LAND.    They would have probably been even more comfortable in French.    At issue would be two
> illiterates -----one from Egypt and the other from Mauritania STRUGGLING to communicate.   There is,  TODAY,  a standard college level arabic which is
> virtually a foreign language to the average Bedouin
> and his sheep


Yeah with _me_ they were more comfortable in French; with_ each other _they spoke Arabic.

Have you ever in your entire time on this site had any idea what you were babbling about?


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## irosie91 (Mar 1, 2022)

Pogo said:


> Yeah with _me_ they were more comfortable in French; with_ each other _they spoke Arabic.
> 
> Have you ever in your entire time on this site had any idea what you were babbling about?


Yeah?    with you they spoke in arabic.    Neither 
of my parents could speak yiddish FUNCTIONALLY,  but when we five kids were 
 around-----they resorted to that language


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## Pogo (Mar 3, 2022)

irosie91 said:


> Yeah?    with you they spoke in arabic.    Neither
> of my parents could speak yiddish FUNCTIONALLY,  but when we five kids were
> around-----they resorted to that language



They only spoke Arabic to me when they were teaching me phrases therein.
And when they did they distinguished between "this one is used in (say) Egypt and that one is universal".   Much like a "shopping cart" in Connecticut is a "buggy" in Tennessee.  Or as Arabs would put it, "kif-kif".


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## irosie91 (Jun 1, 2022)

aris2chat said:


> they obsess about their religions


   In interesting anecdote  (personal so----well... bear with me)  A pakistani
surgeon with whom I worked LONG AGO tried to convince me that 
Maimonides was a muslim.    I said---"nope--jew".   The surgeon 
insisted he was BORN a jew but converted to islam in moorish spain.  
I said  "nope---only with a knife at his throat in Fez----and then he 
ran" -----More evidence that he was a muslim----"HE WROTE IN 
ARABIC THUS PROVING HE WAS MUSLIM"    The concept that anyone 
who does arabic is  REALLY A MUSLIM----is not unique


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