# Im going to buy a hand gun soon. Any suggestions?



## Godboy (Jun 2, 2020)

I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.

What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.

The second, and most important reason why i want to buy a gun is because, i want to have fun at gun ranges. Thats it. Im basically buying a gun for fun. Home protection is merely a bonus.

My favorite gun of all time is the HK MP5. Ive been a big fan of HK's forever. I cant buy one of those because they are fully automatic, but there is the HK SP5 version for civilians. Its nearly $3,000 though, and i dont think i can justify that kind of spending, unless i get really hooked on gun shooting, at which point i might expand on my collection.

I have pretty much decided that i want an HK pistol. From my research, the HK VP9 is one of the best 9mm out there. Do you guys have other suggestions? If you can find me a cooler pistol than that, i welcome any suggestions.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jun 2, 2020)

Remington 470 shotgun.

I keep one fully loaded with buck shot under the bed just in case.


----------



## OKTexas (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...




A lot of folks like the Glock, I like the Spirngfield Arms and S&W .40 or .45 ACP are best over a 9mm. I'd suggest going to a range that has rental firearms and try them all. Grip length, trigger pull preference can only be judged by firing the weapon.

.


----------



## bluzman61 (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


A BIG one, so you can take out several "protesters" with a single shot or two.  You're welcome.


----------



## barn sour (Jun 2, 2020)

Just don't get a shotgun derringer.  Those things are dangerous.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.

For one thing, it is a simple almost foolproof weapon.  In a panic driven emergency, you don't have to think about the gun as much.

Another thing, it allows you to use some different types of ammo.  We have 3 revolvers in .357 in various places in our house (2 in nightstands and 1 in the kitchen).   All 3 have a .38 Special shot shell loaded in the first position on the cylinder.  Then the other 5 rounds are .357 MagSafe hollow points.  That gives you a quick, 1st shot and 5 major follow ups.

And lastly, the chances of a jam (using factory loaded ammo) is virtually nil.   And revolvers tend to be more accurate.


----------



## bluzman61 (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.
> 
> For one thing, it is a simple almost foolproof weapon.  In a panic driven emergency, you don't have to think about the gun as much.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, WB.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

I'm a big fan of FN.
They make a really nice 9mm.
Of course I'm a little biased...



  I prefer the .45 myself for knockdown power. And in the case of the FN it's 16 round capacity equals most 9,s and surpasses some of them.

     So I'm guessing you're okay with spending around 6 to 7 hundred for a pistol based on your choice?


----------



## Mr Natural (Jun 2, 2020)

You have to be too good a shot for a hand gun to be effective in a home invasion.

Not to mention the
bureaucratic bullshit you have to put up with to get a handgun.


----------



## Godboy (Jun 2, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I'm a big fan of FN.
> They make a really nice 9mm.
> Of course I'm a little biased...View attachment 344619
> I prefer the .45 myself for knockdown power. And in the case of the FN it's 16 round capacity which equals most 9,s and surpasses some of them.
> ...


That looks menacing! I like it.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I'm a big fan of FN.
> They make a really nice 9mm.
> Of course I'm a little biased...View attachment 344619
> I prefer the .45 myself for knockdown power. And in the case of the FN it's 16 round capacity which equals most 9,s and surpasses some of them.
> ...



   Oh....unless you're a gun nut I wouldnt recommend the FN tactical .45 due to price.
    The way that one sits is around $2200,stripped of all the goodies it's around $1200 but the 9's are much cheaper.


----------



## Tumblin Tumbleweed (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



Ruger ss45 is good for closed quarters. Perhaps a nice 30-06 (scoped) for long distance.


----------



## Godboy (Jun 2, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> You have to be too good a shot for a hand gun to be effective in a home invasion.
> 
> Not to mention the
> bureaucratic bullshit you have to put up with to get a handgun.


A handgun will be more fun at the range, i think. I am not ruling out a shotgun though. I might end up with a pistol, shotgun and rifle at some point.


----------



## Blues Man (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


Caliber is less important than accuracy.

Try a couple different handguns and buy the one that is most comfortable in you hands and that you can shoot accurately.

My daily carry is a Glock 19 with hollow points.

I can put three in a quarter sized spot from 50 feet.

I have a couple bigger calibers and a couple smaller but my 9mm is my go to for concealed carry


----------



## Vastator (Jun 2, 2020)

I agree with Winter on the .357 revolver. You said one gun; for defense, range, and fun. That’ll do the job across all those spectrums. However, what I suggest additionally, is that you don’t run out and buy whatever gun everyone says is great, because their new favorite movie hero uses it. Go to a good gun range. A good gun range will rent you guns. Try quite a few, and see what fits your hand, suits you best, and you shoot best with. When it comes to guns, try as manufacturers may; one size does not fit all...


----------



## Mr Natural (Jun 2, 2020)

Or get a dog.

A German Shepherd won’t let anybody in your house.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> You have to be too good a shot for a hand gun to be effective in a home invasion.
> 
> Not to mention the
> bureaucratic bullshit you have to put up with to get a handgun.



  That depends on where you live as far as ease of purchase goes.
   I'm fast and accurate at 50ft and can hit out to 90 if I take my time.


----------



## Godboy (Jun 2, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a big fan of FN.
> ...


The HK VP9 is like $750ish, i think. Im not worried about the price too much. I could definitely see myself buying a $1200 dollar gun, if i like it enough.

Im going with the HK VP9 because of my love of HK's and the fact that its an ambidextrous pistol. I am ambidextrous, and sometimes im better with my right hand, sometimes my left. Sometimes im equal with both hands. It depends on what it is. Im not sure how it will be with pistols.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> Or get a dog.
> 
> A German Shepherd won’t let anybody in your house.



 Dogs are good for early warning but not much else against a determined attacker.


----------



## night_son (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



My advice will be less popular than many others, however, I would recommend one of three platforms to you for home defense. 

Option number one: Charter Arms Bulldog or similar chambered in .44 special. A revolver is a much safer bet for the inexperienced and/or casual or new to handguns individual. Essentially, a revolver is point and shoot without all the sometimes complicated buttons and levers inherent to _ some_  semi-auto pistols. Add to that the versatility of the .44 special round and you've got a great all around package for hunting, plinking and man-stopping home defense. They only downside? Five rounds capacity (you should only need one-three shots for most home defense situations) versus up to and beyond twenty rounds in some modern auto pistols. That and the semi-rarity of the ammunition for the caliber, in a scavenging scenario. But if you get into handloading that won't be an issue. 

Second choice: anything in .45 ACP, preferably anything built on a 1911 platform _ or_  a Glock 21 or similar. Sig also makes a great .45. The .45 ACP is a large, forgiving (recoil wise) pistol round that's been proven in combat at point blank range again and again over the course of the last one hundred plus odd years. 

Third choice, a controversial one at that, the FN Five-Seven chambered for 5.7x28mm, which is a high velocity (for a non-magnum handgun) round that is very light weight and extremely low recoil. Benefit: high capacity magazines, 20+ rounds. Drawbacks: much smaller wound channel, scarcity of ammunition when scavenging, and endless debate about the caliber's ability to efficiently kill a human being intent on killing you in close quarters.  

In 9mm, I own a Steyr GB which is an older but incredibly reliable platform in this caliber. I am also a fan of the Sig P320-M18 compact. 

Another possibility, also less popular, is .38 Super, which is a great target shooting caliber and highly underrated for self-defense carry.


----------



## MarcATL (Jun 2, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> Remington 470 shotgun.
> 
> I keep one fully loaded with buck shot under the bed just in case.


They say shotguns are THEE best for home protection. 

I'll look into that model.


----------



## JGalt (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



Glock 19. Put the Luger in the gun safe, it's collectible but can malfunction.

There's a reason why most law-enforcement officers prefer Glocks: They're virtually idiot-proof, rarely malfunction, and go bang all the time. Just keep your finger away from the trigger, as well as objects such as your shirt tail. They were meant to be carried with one in the chamber, 15 in the magazine, and the safety is on the trigger.

Then get a good holster for it. Not one of those cheap nylon or Kydex holsters they sell at Walmart. Stay away from Serpa holsters. Any holster that has a mechanical retention system such as a button on it to release the pistol, is a disaster waiting to happen. If you end up rolling around on the ground with an attacker and dirt gets into the release button, it won't work. Get a good leather one with a thumb-break retention strap, designed for that pistol: Milt Sparks, Galco, Safariland, or Bianchi. Outside waistband is ok but an inside waistband holster is easier to conceal and more comfortable. And don't forget two spare magazines with a carrier, and good folding knife, a 300-400 lumen LED flashlight that uses rechargeable 18650 or 16340 Li Ion batteries, and a small can of pepper spray like they sell in the sporting department at Walmart.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



  You cant go wrong with an HK.
They make a fine pistol. I'd own one for sure.
   As far as being ambidextrous? While that can help you should always use both hands to control recoil.
  If you plan on working from both sides make sure you buy a pistol with all the controls on both sides.
  Although shooting either side isnt as important as it is with a rifle when cutting the pie.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

night_son said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...



  The FN 5.7 is a bad ass no doubt.
My only bitch is the cost and availability of ammo.


----------



## evenflow1969 (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


38 or 45 revolver. plenty of stopping power and no brass hits the floor.


----------



## Polishprince (Jun 2, 2020)

MarcATL said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > Remington 470 shotgun.
> ...




The problem with that is people need protection when they go out on the streets, particularly in Shithole cities.   Thus the need for handguns and concealed carry


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 2, 2020)

Beretta M9 --- $500 - $600









						Beretta M9 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




*****SMILE*****


----------



## freyasman (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


That's a perfectly good choice, and it's as good if not better than most of the other choices available. Buy it, take a basic pistol class, and enjoy.
(Don't forget to get 4 or 5 spare mags in addition to what it comes with, a decent holster, and a cleaning kit.)


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

Tumblin Tumbleweed said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...



  For home protection?


----------



## evenflow1969 (Jun 2, 2020)

Vastator said:


> I agree with Winter on the .357 revolver. You said one gun; for defense, range, and fun. That’ll do the job across all those spectrums. However, what I suggest additionally, is that you don’t run out and buy whatever gun everyone says is great, because their new favorite movie hero uses it. Go to a good gun range. A good gun range will rent you guns. Try quite a few, and see what fits your hand, suits you best, and you shoot best with. When it comes to guns, try as manufacturers may; one size does not fit all...


357 for some one inexperienced? realy? weildy and to powerfull for most.


----------



## Polishprince (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...





Charles Bronson endorses the 475 Wildey, because of its tremendous stopping power.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

Blues Man said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...



YOu make a very good point.   Try multiple handguns, especially for the way they fit your hand.

Glock makes an excellent gun, but it never fit my hand the way a 1911 does.  That makes getting good with it that much easier.


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

It largely depends on what feels good to you and that you can shoot well and control. I've had several handguns and here are four of mine.





Springfield Armory XDS .45 caliber pistol. It's very concealable, has a grip safety unlike a Glock, plus it has a very obvious loaded chamber indicator. And last but not least the front sight is a night sight that glows in the dark. It will have more recoil than a 9mm, but a 45 packs a lot more punch than a 9mm does especially in a short barreled gun. It has no external safety as it employs a trigger much like the Glock safe action trigger.  It also has an ambidextrous mag release. Sells for around 500 dollars with two mags. One round in the chamber and 6 in the mag. I carry it in the warmer times.





This one is a Desert Eagle 1911 G with a 5 inch barrel in .45 caliber, and a grip safety and an external safety. It comes with 2 - 8 round magazines, nice grips and has the best trigger pull of any 1911 I have ever tried. It is also the most accurate pistol I have ever owned. They sell for about 800.00. I mainly carry in it winter months as it is harder to conceal. 1 round in the chamber and 8 in the mag, although I do have a ten round mag.




This one is a Ruger SP 101 .357 magnum 5 shot revolver with a 2 and a quarter inch barrel. The hammerless style fits in your pocket and won't snag on your pants when pulled out. It is very concealable. You can also shoot .38 special ammo if the .357 recoil is uncomfortable for you. It is double action only which means you cannot cock the hammer. I changed the grips to make the recoil more manageable to these:





The Ruger sells for around 600.00

Lastly I have this which I rarely carry anywhere because I don't have a holster for it.





It is a Rossi .357 magnum six shot double action revolver, with a four inch barrel. Based on the Smith and Wesson design, it is very accurate and has a great single action trigger pull. You can shoot .38 special in it too. Sells for around 350 dollars.

All of these guns have proven to be 100 percent reliable.

I would recommend you go to a range that will let you rent guns and try out several, or maybe hook up with a friend who has a few.

PS: This is one one that has never failed me:


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

Damaged Eagle said:


> View attachment 344639
> Beretta M9
> 
> *****SMILE*****



 Another one you cant go wrong with.


----------



## candycorn (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.
> 
> For one thing, it is a simple almost foolproof weapon.  In a panic driven emergency, you don't have to think about the gun as much.
> 
> ...



It has some kick. It hurt my hand when I first started shooting


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

evenflow1969 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with Winter on the .357 revolver. You said one gun; for defense, range, and fun. That’ll do the job across all those spectrums. However, what I suggest additionally, is that you don’t run out and buy whatever gun everyone says is great, because their new favorite movie hero uses it. Go to a good gun range. A good gun range will rent you guns. Try quite a few, and see what fits your hand, suits you best, and you shoot best with. When it comes to guns, try as manufacturers may; one size does not fit all...
> ...



My girlfriend got a .357 as her first gun.   She does most of her practicing with .38 Special, and then fires at least 12 rounds of the .357 ammo we have for defense.

She is not tiny, but it is not uncontrollable in any way.   Even in a 2" S&W she handles it well.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 2, 2020)

.22 Colt (Wife and early teens) --- $400 - $500

*****SMILE*****


----------



## Tumblin Tumbleweed (Jun 2, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Tumblin Tumbleweed said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Either will do. My wife has a Ruger 9mm she uses as well.


----------



## evenflow1969 (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
> 
> > Vastator said:
> ...


All I here is the part where she uses the 38 special the most. kinda proving my point. I know when I go to do a job I use the tool I am most comfortable with, which is why I prescibe the 38 to start also a revolver leaves no evidence behind is easier to clean, use, and jams way less often. Most guns are used inside of ten foot and the 38 is more than powerfull enough at this distance.. I personally prefer the 45 but I have a great deal of experience.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

There are a lot of good quality pistols out there,and when it comes to price in a pistol?
    Use it as a guide,because you really do get what you pay for when it comes to semi auto pistols.

   Stay away from the 3 or 400 dollar pistols like high point and the like.
     At your price point you can easily get a good one.
Whether it's an HK,Beretta,FN and a host of of others.
  Oh....forgot Sig Sauer,they make a great pistol as well.
Along with nice AR's.......since I know your gonna want one once you get the bug,because a pistol only goes so far....literally.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 2, 2020)

Tumblin Tumbleweed said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Tumblin Tumbleweed said:
> ...



A 30.06?


----------



## hjmick (Jun 2, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> Remington 470 shotgun.
> 
> I keep one fully loaded with buck shot under the bed just in case.



I've got a Mossberg, alternating 00 buck and deer slugs...


----------



## Maxdeath (Jun 2, 2020)

I have a 44 Ruger Super Blackhawk and a 9mm Walther PPK. Love the 44 because it has enough stopping power and I sometimes kid that just the sound is enough to deter 99% of most home invasions. The 9 is accurate and is good for use in the house though it doesn't have the stopping power.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 2, 2020)

night_son said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...


The 9mm is a good gun and most out there are pretty reliable and accurate, but if you want defense then get the Critical Defense Max 115g , as it penetrates then basically explodes inside the body going into all the vital organs, thus shutting down the attack, but also doesnt go through the body or wall into your wife or children.  I have a few revolvers around for show, but the 9 mm with 15 round or 17 round mags, cant take out more than just 6 people.  









						Ammo PRE-ORDER: Hornady Critical Defense, 9mm, FTX, 115 Grain, 25 Round Box $23.89
					

Optics Planet has a PRE-ORDER offer on 25 round box of Hornady Critical Defense in 9mm, FTX, 115 Grain for just $23.89, in stock and shipping now. That is a fair price for top-shelf self-defense ammunition




					www.ammoland.com


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

evenflow1969 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...



She uses .38 special because they are cheaper and the lower recoil means it is comfortable at the range.   I am willing to bet, if someone is in your house in the middle of the night, you won't feel the recoil.    Plus, I doubt you will fire 50 to 75 rounds at an intruder.


----------



## hjmick (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.
> 
> For one thing, it is a simple almost foolproof weapon.  In a panic driven emergency, you don't have to think about the gun as much.
> 
> ...




I love my Colt 1911, but it's my Ruger .357 I keep loaded...


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

Maxdeath said:


> I have a 44 Ruger Super Blackhawk and a 9mm Walther PPK. Love the 44 because it has enough stopping power and I sometimes kid that just the sound is enough to deter 99% of most home invasions. The 9 is accurate and is good for use in the house though it doesn't have the stopping power.



I do love my Super Blackhawk.   The main reason I don't use it as a defensive gun is the time it takes to reload.   But I carry it when I am in the woods or working around my property.


----------



## freyasman (Jun 2, 2020)

evenflow1969 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with Winter on the .357 revolver. You said one gun; for defense, range, and fun. That’ll do the job across all those spectrums. However, what I suggest additionally, is that you don’t run out and buy whatever gun everyone says is great, because their new favorite movie hero uses it. Go to a good gun range. A good gun range will rent you guns. Try quite a few, and see what fits your hand, suits you best, and you shoot best with. When it comes to guns, try as manufacturers may; one size does not fit all...
> ...


There are a lot of different sized 357s  out there, and you have a lot of different ammo choices for that particular revolver. My wife carries 148gr 38 special wadcutters in hers.
And Taurus has thisout;








						Firearms | Taurus USA
					

At Taurus®, rugged craftsmanship meets next generation design and engineering. You'll find the care, expertise and passion that goes into every firearm we make exemplifies just what it means to b



					www.taurususa.com
				




The 357 magnum revolver is actually a very solid, very versatile platform which will serve the needs of a lot of people.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

Maxdeath said:


> I have a 44 Ruger Super Blackhawk and a 9mm Walther PPK. Love the 44 because it has enough stopping power and I sometimes kid that just the sound is enough to deter 99% of most home invasions. The 9 is accurate and is good for use in the house though it doesn't have the stopping power.



Another plus to using a .44 inside your house, you can have your lawyer there by the time you can hear well enough to be interviewed by the police.   lol


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> You have to be too good a shot for a hand gun to be effective in a home invasion.
> 
> Not to mention the
> bureaucratic bullshit you have to put up with to get a handgun.


Hmm, around here you just go in, pay and walk out with it. That 470 shotgun you spoke of, is that related to the Illudium Q36 explosive space modulator?


----------



## Maxdeath (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> Maxdeath said:
> 
> 
> > I have a 44 Ruger Super Blackhawk and a 9mm Walther PPK. Love the 44 because it has enough stopping power and I sometimes kid that just the sound is enough to deter 99% of most home invasions. The 9 is accurate and is good for use in the house though it doesn't have the stopping power.
> ...


I have used mine to defend a kill from a black bear. Was not worried about reload times only stopping power when I bought it. Legal to hunt with in a good number of states.


----------



## Vastator (Jun 2, 2020)

evenflow1969 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with Winter on the .357 revolver. You said one gun; for defense, range, and fun. That’ll do the job across all those spectrums. However, what I suggest additionally, is that you don’t run out and buy whatever gun everyone says is great, because their new favorite movie hero uses it. Go to a good gun range. A good gun range will rent you guns. Try quite a few, and see what fits your hand, suits you best, and you shoot best with. When it comes to guns, try as manufacturers may; one size does not fit all...
> ...


Yes really. It can also shoot .38 special in a variety of loads which make for a great, lower cost training aid. Which after working your way up through the +P offerings, makes shooting .357 a pussy cat.


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> Or get a dog.
> 
> A German Shepherd won’t let anybody in your house.


Until they kill it.


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

JGalt said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...


I did the shirt tail mistake with my XDS. Thank goodness for the grip safety.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

Maxdeath said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Maxdeath said:
> ...



I have hunted feral hog with it.  It is accurate out to 100 yards.

Great target and hunting gun, that is for sure.    And rugged as hell.


----------



## freyasman (Jun 2, 2020)

miketx said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > You have to be too good a shot for a hand gun to be effective in a home invasion.
> ...


He had a typo; he meant 870.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 2, 2020)

freyasman said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
> 
> > Vastator said:
> ...


Stop with this crap of .357 The .45 LC is the weapon to bring a bad guy down if you only want 6 shots before reloading.   Bigger than the .44magnum the .45LC not only can be for a pistole but also rifles. One box of 1000 rounds of ammo for both pistol and rifle.








						Handguns For Sale | Pistols Online | Cheaper Than Dirt
					

We offer affordable handguns, semi-automatic pistols and revolvers for sale from the most popular manufacturers like Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory and Taurus. Shop now.




					www.cheaperthandirt.com
				











						Sites-CTDDOTCOM-Site
					

CheaperThanDirt.com




					www.cheaperthandirt.com


----------



## evenflow1969 (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


the laws of physics do not stop under durress if any thing they are multiplied. An inexperienced shooter in times of stress is more likely to miss the first shot. The more recoil the more time it takes to reaim and shoot again. I can tell you this some one comes in home at night my 45 and my dog is going is make it real tough for them. As far as shooting alot of bullets, kinda supporting my revolver theory. Further more the less expense of the 38 shell makes practice cheaper and practice build confidence and profincey. When the bullets start flying you want what you are most experienced with. If you are going to carry it on the block even more reason for the revolver. There are situations where you might not want to leave cartriges behind. A revolver solves a multitude of problems.


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

As far as recommending ammo, I went in an academy once to buy some ammo for my 1911 45. They were out of what I wanted so the kid got some other brand and set it on the counter and said it was the best defensive 45 ammo there was. I couldn't help it, I looked at him and said, "You ever shot anybody with it?" Lol he freaked!


----------



## Tijn Von Ingersleben (Jun 2, 2020)

I have a  S&W .40 that I keep for home protection. Though, they say a nice 12 gauge pump shotgun is pretty good.


----------



## evenflow1969 (Jun 2, 2020)

Vastator said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
> 
> > Vastator said:
> ...


I have never owned one, was not aware they coould shoot 38 cartirdges.. Assuming it can be pulled and cleaned as easy as the 38 I will not argue the validity of your argument. I will go get my hand on one so i can taqlk with first hand know;lege.


----------



## Vastator (Jun 2, 2020)

miketx said:


> As far as recommending ammo, I went in an academy once to buy some ammo for my 1911 45. They were out of what I wanted so the kid got some other brand and set it on the counter and said it was the best defensive 45 ammo there was. I couldn't help it, I looked at him and said, "You ever shot anybody with it?" Lol he freaked!


For a good demonstration of many of the popular defensive ammos, in a variety of commonly used guns; Subscribe to Paul Harrels channel on you tube. He puts a great many of them to the test. And I’m not talking about shooting gelatin blocks. He has his signature “meat target” and his demonstration are both entertaining, and informative. Many manufacturers claims don’t always come to fruition depending on the gun you are shooting their billet out of, and Paul’s tests bear this out quite poiniantly.


----------



## Vastator (Jun 2, 2020)

evenflow1969 said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...


You won’t regret it.


----------



## freyasman (Jun 2, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...


That's a good round too.


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

Vastator said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > As far as recommending ammo, I went in an academy once to buy some ammo for my 1911 45. They were out of what I wanted so the kid got some other brand and set it on the counter and said it was the best defensive 45 ammo there was. I couldn't help it, I looked at him and said, "You ever shot anybody with it?" Lol he freaked!
> ...


Thanks, I have seen many of them.


----------



## freyasman (Jun 2, 2020)

miketx said:


> As far as recommending ammo, I went in an academy once to buy some ammo for my 1911 45. They were out of what I wanted so the kid got some other brand and set it on the counter and said it was the best defensive 45 ammo there was. I couldn't help it, I looked at him and said, "You ever shot anybody with it?" Lol he freaked!


I'm a big believer in using premium defensive ammo, but I never forget that regular 9mm ball ammo, and the old 38 special 158gr lead round nose, have both laid a lot of people down in the 100+ years...... *a lot *of people.


----------



## White 6 (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


Walther PPQ M2 9mm for reliability ease of operation, smooth trigger for personal carry defense.  Otherwise, gotta go with Mr. Clean for home defense, quicker to learn, much steadier aim than a pistol and more forgiving with the spread, will go through less interior walls, and like he said, less bureaucratic BS.  Who knows you might even take up shooting game.  I'm with PETA, people for eating tasty animals.


----------



## Damaged Eagle (Jun 2, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Damaged Eagle said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 344639
> ...








They switched from the 45 Colt to the Beretta near the end of my service. 

I preferred the Beretta over the Colt.

*****CHUCKLE*****


----------



## Zander (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.
> 
> For one thing, it is a simple almost foolproof weapon.  In a panic driven emergency, you don't have to think about the gun as much.
> 
> ...


Yep. I own two 357 magnum revolvers- they are the perfect home security weapon. We also have 12 gauge shotguns and aluminum baseball bats at the front and back doors. . I keep an aluminum t-ball bat in my vehicle too....


----------



## Vastator (Jun 2, 2020)

Zander said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.
> ...


I thought I was the only one who kept one rolling around the back of my truck!


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

freyasman said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > As far as recommending ammo, I went in an academy once to buy some ammo for my 1911 45. They were out of what I wanted so the kid got some other brand and set it on the counter and said it was the best defensive 45 ammo there was. I couldn't help it, I looked at him and said, "You ever shot anybody with it?" Lol he freaked!
> ...


The idiot instructor teaching our firearms training class at the prison told us the reason they only used FMJ ammo was because hollow points would over penetrate and go Right through someone. I looked over at the Captain in class also and he just shook his head no, as in don't say anything. These places hire complete idiots lots of times.


----------



## Godboy (Jun 2, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...


The VP9 has controls on both sides.


----------



## Chuz Life (Jun 2, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



To do it right (self defense) you might consider having two guns. One that is super light that you can make a habit of keeping on your person 24/7 (like a derringer) and secondly, something simple with more power and accuracy that you keep near by (safely but accessible) like a shotgun and or revolver.

The derringer is for the most immediate protection at all times and it can be used to buy you the time needed to get to the others.


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

Chuz Life said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...


There are so many ultra small light weight pistols today that hold six or more shots I would not consider a derringer unless that's all I had.


----------



## CremeBrulee (Jun 2, 2020)

My go to handgun is an IWI Jericho 941.  It's a polymer mid size 9mm and comes with a 16rd magazine.  They're modeled on the CZ 75 making it reliable and in my experience more accurate than anything else I own.  Maybe a little bulky if you're wanting to go the cc route and a little pricier at about $550 but well worth the investment.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> I would recommend a .357 revolver.



Yeah, same here. It's always been my favorite.


----------



## Natural Citizen (Jun 2, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Dogs are good for early warning but not much else against a determined attacker.



I dunno, man. My Turkish Kangal is a rather persistent feller. Highly animated, too. No dog bites harder than a Kangal. None.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

evenflow1969 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...



As I said earlier, all of our revolvers are loaded with a .38 Special shotshell in the first chamber.   Lower recoil and far less chance of a miss.  Then the intruder is shocked and hurting from the pellets, so the next round goes on target.


----------



## miketx (Jun 2, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Unless he's on pcp.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 2, 2020)

miketx said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...



I think it will still slow him slightly, or at least ruin his aim if he is armed.

And 5 round of 158 gr .357 magnum will finish the job, if you hit center of body mass.


----------



## White 6 (Jun 2, 2020)

miketx said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > evenflow1969 said:
> ...


It would be bad to have to shoot somebody trying to come in, but the first round should be able to stop the problem dead in their tracks.  For home defense with people untrained, I really favor a 12 gauge.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

Natural Citizen said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Dogs are good for early warning but not much else against a determined attacker.
> ...



   A .45 hits harder than he can bite.
And you can do it from the other side of the fence
  Of course you can also go with the hamburger rat poison surprise if it's a planned outing.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jun 3, 2020)

White 6 said:


> It would be bad to have to shoot somebody trying to come in, but the first round should be able to stop the problem dead in their tracks. For home defense with people untrained, I really favor a 12 gauge.



I like to think that just the sound of it being racked would be enough to chase off an intruder.


----------



## miketx (Jun 3, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> White 6 said:
> 
> 
> > It would be bad to have to shoot somebody trying to come in, but the first round should be able to stop the problem dead in their tracks. For home defense with people untrained, I really favor a 12 gauge.
> ...


Only a fool waits until a break in to load his gun.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

White 6 said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



  Not a big fan of a long gun in close quarters.
You can shorten em up a lot but that means you lose the stock which hampers aiming.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> night_son said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



   Thats what I love about the FN .45.
16 rounds of pure stopping power.
    I love the old 1911 .45 but hate the eight round capacity.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

miketx said:


> freyasman said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...



  He actually said that!!!?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> evenflow1969 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



   Yep....
Like shooting that big buck. That .300 Win Mag will feel like a tap on your shoulder.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

freyasman said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > As far as recommending ammo, I went in an academy once to buy some ammo for my 1911 45. They were out of what I wanted so the kid got some other brand and set it on the counter and said it was the best defensive 45 ammo there was. I couldn't help it, I looked at him and said, "You ever shot anybody with it?" Lol he freaked!
> ...



   Think how many would have taken a dirt nap with that round if the Geneva convention hadnt outlawed hollow points.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 3, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> White 6 said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...


Not necessarily, i have both the Tavor and Steyr Aug both bullpup rifles which have the same barrel length of a long gun, but 6 inches less because the action is behind the trigger not in front. Both fire the 5.56mm nato round, which at one time the Oblummer Admin tried to outlaw..Because of his greatest gun salesman of the decade, plenty of that ammo went off the shelves.  Thanks Obama









						Obama Administration Defends Proposed Ban on 5.56 "Green Tip" Ammo | OutdoorHub
					

In a briefing, press secretary Josh Earnest defended the administration's support of a proposal to ban a common type of AR-15 ammo known as "green tips."




					www.outdoorhub.com
				




Tavor................................................................Steyr Aug.............................


----------



## Dick Foster (Jun 3, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


If your principal aim is home defence, I recommend the gun I keep handy for that purpose. A 12 gauge pump shotgun with a shorter barrel. It's not for birds so you don't need a long barrel and it's easier to handle a shorter barrel. The distinctive sound of racking a round in a pump 12 gauge alone is often enough to discourage an intruder. You're also much more likely to hit the target with a shotgun if your skills are not up to snuff and the excitement is high.
I have a marine model so I don't even have to clean and maintain it as often.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Jun 3, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


  The best hand gun for a person who has never shot one is *NOT A HAND GUN.
 But a pump security shotgun. You won't miss, and no matter where you hit them - they are down or dead. Shorter than hunting style shotguns for ease of handling and tight corners in a home.

*


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Jun 3, 2020)

Dick Foster said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...


Okay, okay, if a shotgun is what you want...16 shot 12 gauge pump action ...the ultimate in riot control.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Jun 3, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> Dick Foster said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


  Haha!.... $1300....


----------



## Markle (Jun 3, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...





Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



If you've made up your mind, why ask?

If you're not experienced with guns, buy a revolver.  Easy to clean and won't jam.  Or a pump shotgun.  Just racking it will do the job.


----------



## Pete7469 (Jun 3, 2020)

I'm not going to run through this thread and read every post, so what I'm saying may have been said.

Go to some ranges and "rent" some guns, or find the friends you have that own guns.

If you have some cash to dispose of, find good trainers that will let you sample theirs.

Getting a handgun that you're comfortable with takes time and training. I'm a 1911 fanatic, but I carry a Walther CCP. I don't have any interest in Glocks, but I tend to recommend Springfield XD's. I would actually recommend a Beretta M9 even though I've railed against them being used in the Army. They are good weapons in the hands of a trained shooter with the proper ammo.

Training with a weapon is of the upmost importance. I suggest going to some IDPA Matches in your area that you can find on google and network with people there. The gun comunity is mostly eager to teach. Not everyone is a great teacher, but you will learn as you go.


.


----------



## Dick Foster (Jun 3, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> Dick Foster said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


That's surely a lot of money to be wasting away stashed in a closet on the off chance it's ever actually used. Also likely not easy to find or even legal to buy in many areas. The Defender can be found in many stores including Bass Pro and Cabelas and it's not a lot of money. I forget but it was maybe around a couple of hundred after it was all said and done and that was brand new in the box.


----------



## Pete7469 (Jun 3, 2020)

Mr Clean said:


> Or get a dog.
> 
> A German Shepherd won’t let anybody in your house.


Bullshit. I've seen plenty of German Shepards who let people in. It's getting out when they attack.

Don't get me wrong, I love that breed of dog, but to pretend that it's better than a 1911 is beyond stupid.

Then again... You're a liberal, so you start off as stupid.


.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

andaronjim said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > White 6 said:
> ...



  I wouldnt call those long guns per say.
And I hate the bullpup design,having the casing fly right by your face sucks.

   And the AUG is only 3 inches shorter than my AR with the stock extended.

And on top of that most people wont be assing up the money for either.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

Dick Foster said:


> andaronjim said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Foster said:
> ...



  The Marine defender is around $400 bucks which isnt bad if you need a boat gun.
    The DP-12 is pretty expensive at $1400 and I've seen some bad reviews on em.


----------



## Pete7469 (Jun 3, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I wouldnt call those long guns per say.
> And I hate the bullpup design,having the casing fly right by your face sucks.
> 
> And the AUG is only 3 inches shorter than my AR with the stock extended.
> ...



I got a chance to shoot the SA80 the limies carried and I can say I liked it, but when it comes to ergonomics and accuracy, I prefer the M4. At least as PDW go... When it comes to carbines the M4 is the top of the feed chain. When it comes to long gun work, I can't say I have trained with anything better than an M14 but I have great respect for the M110 that I got to play with.

.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

Pete7469 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldnt call those long guns per say.
> ...



   One of the best things about the AR variants is the price.
I paid $1200 for my SIG AR before all the goodies and thats on the high end of AR's.

     Dont really recommend the cheap BushMasters but a decent AR can be had for six or seven hundred bucks.


----------



## Pete7469 (Jun 3, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> One of the best things about the AR variants is the price.
> I paid $1200 for my SIG AR before all the goodies and thats on the high end of AR's.
> 
> Dont really recommend the cheap BushMasters but a decent AR can be had for six or seven hundred bucks.



Yeah, SIG AR's are certainly high dollar for what you can get compared to Bushy's, but as far as I'm concerned any AR you can buy for $600 is good enough if you're not employed as a door kicker.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


If HK in 9 mil is your favorite then buy one and don't listen to the arm chair, self proclaimed self defense experts out there.  I remember way back wanting a Glock until I actually held one, it was like holding on to an unwieldy box, the ergonomics sucked ass at least for me.  
Personally I love my Tok and Maks and I like my old S&W .38 revolver.  Heck the largest caliber sidearms I own are .44 caliber black powder 1860s reproductions, I'm not packing those around under my shirt........  
Bursa (Argentine made) has some very good, inexpensive models for sale, their Thunder 380 is an unabashed copy of the Walther PPK.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

Pete7469 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > One of the best things about the AR variants is the price.
> ...



   Yeah...
The Wife gives me shit for my penchant for semi expensive guns,she has no idea what I'd buy if money were no object.
     She calls em my barbies because I'm always accessorising.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...



  I'm with you on the Glock.
While they make a fine firearm it just feels wrong in my hands.


----------



## Pete7469 (Jun 3, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Yeah...
> The Wife gives me shit for my penchant for semi expensive guns,she has no idea what I'd buy if money were no object.
> She calls em my barbies because I'm always accessorising.


That's why I love my AR's, I have my summer tine collapsible style, my urban style, my full length Apocalypse style, and my normal truck style.

Plus the under the bed style, the closet style with lights and lasers, the stashed styles with 37mm launchers on them in the shed.

Women can be a real pain in the ass when they would rather spend the money on new pots and pans just because I shot the old ones all up.

.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


Probably the most comfortable pistols I've ever held are the old Beretta 92s but for some reason I never bought one.  Don't remember why.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Ringel05 said:
> ...



 My guess is if you bought every pistol that felt good in your hands you'd be broke.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2020)

Pete7469 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldnt call those long guns per say.
> ...


Every year a bunch of us reenactors would get together at an outdoor range in PA.  We would have everything from flintlocks up to MG-42s, 34s and 30 cals (full auto).  Once I got to fire a MP5, that thing climbs then right after I fired a PPSH, no climb, it pushes straight back.  The one that I only fired once, because of the kick was the Martini-Henry (Zulu War version).  There are reports that the surviving soldiers from Rorke's Drift had bruises all the way down their side that took a year to heal.  I can believe it, that thing kicked like a mule.


----------



## Mr Natural (Jun 3, 2020)

Pete7469 said:


> Then again... You're a liberal, so you start off as stupid.



And you start off and remain an asshole.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 3, 2020)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...



I'm not sure a security shotgun is the best bet for someone who have never fired a gun.

Yes, they are short than a bird hunting shotgun.  But still not especially handy inside the home.   A Remington 870, with an 18.5" barrel is still 38.5 inches long.  For a novice, that is probably unwieldy.

As for the spread pattern, unless you are shooting down a long hallway, it is actually quite easy to miss.   I remember reading somewhere that you can estimate the spread of a "riot" shotgun as 1" per yard of range.   So you are not guaranteed a lethal hit.

Also, quite a few people talked about not liking the recoil of a .357 magnum.    I think a 12 ga has considerably more recoil.

Don't get me wrong, a shotgun makes an excellent home defense weapon.   But I wouldn't recommend it for the first gun.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


Most people have never fired a shotgun but as with any and all firearms if you plan on using it take it to a range and learn to shoot it.   Then practice, practice, practice as often as realistically possible to develop not only proficiency but also muscle memory, muscle memory takes over in high stress situations.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 3, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



Practice is, indeed, the key.    And with a 12 ga, most novice gunners will not like the recoil.   A gun that is uncomfortable to shoot means they won't shoot it as much.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Jun 3, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...


  Oh for sure... my main point is a beginner gun owner with a hand gun is going to miss, and miss badly. Even a novice who is a decent shot will miss. That adrenaline and extreme nervousness affects your ability to aim in a huge way.
  With a shotgun, and assuming you have shot it several times on a range/rural area... you are way-way less likely to miss, and no matter where you hit them they will be dead or down. 
   What I like to do to show a beginner this fact is take them out and shoot a shotgun at a large item like a pumpkin, an old piece of plywood...etc. from a distance of say 20 or 30 feet. Then walk over and look at the spray pattern. They get it real quick.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


I learned combat tactical shooting with shotguns.  The first time I saw where the butt placement was I thought "that will break my collar bone.........."  Instead of positioning the butt full on the shoulder the bottom point of the butt is placed about an inch or so below the collar bone.  It's actually more comfortable shooting it that way and only that point gets sore as opposed to the whole shoulder.
You can see the position here:











It also gives better control.


----------



## Andylusion (Jun 3, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



My opinion.... buy a 9mm, and if possible, the same model as your local police.
Unless you want a Conceal and Carry.  Then you should go with a smaller model, that is lighter.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2020)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Another thing I learned much later in life is I'm left eye dominant which means I'm much more accurate left handed though I'm a righty.  Been shooting right handed all my life so when the instructor told me to try the shotgun left handed I couldn't, I just didn't have the muscle memory to do it however sidearms are a different story, I can shoot left handed all day long.


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Jun 3, 2020)

I haven't read this thread... I assume there have been more than one pin-head saying the best is an AR-15?
While I would not disagree with that if you consider home defense as a scenario of 12 guys attacking your house from 50 yards away after the apocalypse. But, yeah.... that is not even close to reality. Reality is usually one or two assailants, and usually very close range, in the dark. Hard conditions even for the trained.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 3, 2020)

iamwhatiseem said:


> I haven't read this thread... I assume there have been more than one pin-head saying the best is an AR-15?
> While I would not disagree with that if you consider home defense as a scenario of 12 guys attacking your house from 50 yards away after the apocalypse. But, yeah.... that is not even close to reality. Reality is usually one or two assailants, and usually very close range, in the dark. Hard conditions even for the trained.


----------



## White 6 (Jun 3, 2020)

miketx said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > White 6 said:
> ...


Gotta admit, everything in every closet is loaded and chambered.  There will be no feed jamb of any type on the first trigger pull.


----------



## White 6 (Jun 3, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> White 6 said:
> 
> 
> > miketx said:
> ...


Don't think close quarters.  You ain't clearing rooms after kicking in a door.  Think home defense.  If they are close enough for it to be a problem, you already messed up.  Not a problem in your own home.  You know where the impediments are in the dark already. They don't.  Buckshot  is just smaller than 22 shorts, except there is a bunch of them.  If shooting in the house, it will go through fewer walls than any .38 or higher pistol (safer), and you have a better aim and control, especially by the way it is held.  The untrained are often sloppy in the way they hold and sight pistols, and shooting isn't like on TV.  If you try it over things and around corners aiming in a general direction with a pistol, you can empty a 15 round magazine down a 4 ft wide hallway and never hit a thing.  Steadiest to aim is most likely to solve your home defense problem.  A .20 gauge will actually do, and it is light enough and with so little recoil, the most petite wife or significant other can handle it also.  Nothing beats the knock down power of buckshot in a shotgun.  Check out Paul Harrell on YouTube. comparing weaponry on the "meat target"  He has forgotten more than I will ever know.  He's the professional.  I am just a semi-talented amateur.  His video comparisons are excellent.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 3, 2020)

White 6 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > White 6 said:
> ...



   Nope.
Buck shot is far bigger than a .22 at .330 diameter and it will travel through several interior walls.
   And dont tell me what shooting is like.
   My Wife had a 12 when I met her,and still does, and can shoot beer cans out of the air from the hip.


----------



## Quasar44 (Jun 28, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



M4 semi auto shotgun
Used by the marines
It’s a killer 
Cost is 2 grand


----------



## Quasar44 (Jun 28, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> White 6 said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



will #4 buck shot also travel through walls ??


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 28, 2020)

Quasar44 said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...



The M4 is a great shotgun.   And pretty reliable.  But any semi auto is more likely to have a malfunction.

As good as the M4 is, I like a Remington 870 for the function.


----------



## Vastator (Jun 28, 2020)

Quasar44 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > White 6 said:
> ...


Here are some informative videos for you to watch regarding your questions on shotguns, and home defense. If you’re really interested in the topic I suggest you peruse the rest of Paul’s video cache, as he posts very educational real world information on the subject.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 28, 2020)

Quasar44 said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > White 6 said:
> ...



 Yes.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 28, 2020)

Vastator said:


> Quasar44 said:
> 
> 
> > HereWeGoAgain said:
> ...



   Yeah...
He has some good info.


----------



## justinacolmena (Jun 28, 2020)

Godboy said:


> never owned a gun as an adult


Keep it that way, at least officially.

There are plans for a machinist, or anyone willing to learn basic machining or metal working skills, to make and build a 1911-style automatic pistol.


----------



## Vastator (Jun 28, 2020)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> > Quasar44 said:
> ...


I’m sensing a “ya but“..?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Jun 28, 2020)

Vastator said:


> HereWeGoAgain said:
> 
> 
> > Vastator said:
> ...



   No ya buts here.


----------



## Crixus (Jun 29, 2020)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...




For me it's very simple. If it's a semi auto it's a Glock period. If it's a revolver I like the Ruger gp100 in the 7 shot version. The cons of my choice? No e for me, but with Glocks people reallocate like the feel of it's 1,000 percent wrong so be sure to handle and shoot one before you buy. With the revolver, I shoot 125 JHP's out of a 3 inch barrel so it's a fire breathing loud ass dragon, but a game putty cat with 38 special. The Ruger is also bulky so CCW is challenging. Just put some effort I to whatever you pick. And factor the cost of a CCW class into the cost to. Even if you don't plan to carry the training is worth it, and you will get real familiar with the gun you buy.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 29, 2020)

Crixus said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> ...



I always recommend people handle the firearm they want to buy.  Sure, I'll take a Glock but only if you give it to me so I can sell it or trade it for something I like.  To me the Glock ergonomics is like trying to hold on to a 2x4 with a pistol attached to it.......


----------



## petro (Jun 29, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.
> 
> For one thing, it is a simple almost foolproof weapon.  In a panic driven emergency, you don't have to think about the gun as much.
> 
> ...


Best thing about revolvers is they don't leave casings around as added "evidence".


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 30, 2020)

petro said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > I would recommend a .357 revolver.    Yeah, I know lots of people will tell you that they are obsolete.   Those people are wrong.
> ...


That depends on if you have to reload combat speed loading style.  One of our firearms instructors told us a story about muscle memory, bad muscle memory.  Back in the 70s lots of cops were getting wounded and killed in fire fights so a study was commissioned to see why.  Seems back when cops were using .38s they would practice shooting at the range, when they reloaded they put the empty brass in their pockets......  Guess what, all the wounded and dead cops had empty casings in their pockets, they did exactly as they practiced.  In a fire fight, empty casings and empty magazines are of no use, leave em where they drop.


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 30, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> petro said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Shooting for accuracy at the range is all well and good.  It is a big part of the fun.

But with your defensive weapon, train like you are defending your life.


----------



## Crixus (Jun 30, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...




That's why I say get as many guns I. Your hand before you buy as you can. That's also why I recommend a CCW course. For them that can use them, which is just about everyone ln then world as demonstrated but the fact that almost every police department and military in the world uses a Glock. It's cheaper then most choices out there and dead easy to learn. But as you say, with the Glock you can live with it, or you would rather be consumed by zombies rather then touch a Glock.


----------



## Crixus (Jun 30, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> petro said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...




You were reading Masaad Ayoob huh? If so that was a 50's 60's and on into 80's thing.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 30, 2020)

> *Im going to buy a hand gun soon. Any suggestions?*


For concealed carry:

Tauras G2c 9mm - $250.00 so you can buy several and stash them







For home defense:
See above.  See also:
Walther Creed 9mm - $389.00 - excellent trigger 






For pissed off, home defense, blow-shit-up, explosive FUN:
Magnum Research Desert Eagle .50 cal - $1,799 - hand cannon


----------



## WinterBorn (Jun 30, 2020)

Crixus said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > petro said:
> ...



I think the reasons revolvers are good choices is also based on the gun design and what you are expecting to need it to do.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 30, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > petro said:
> ...


Shooting at the range is where you develop muscle memory.  Muscle memory is what takes over when the adrenaline kicks in so you want to practice at the range like your life depends on it, it just might..........


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 30, 2020)

Crixus said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > petro said:
> ...


Never heard of him.


----------



## Crixus (Jun 30, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Ringel05 said:
> ...




For real? He is old fashioned, but his info is still good. He is not a tactidouche. He is the type of dude who gets called to testify after shootings. If one does CCW, a couple books from Masaad Ayoob should be on the back of said dudes toilet. Lots of good legal advice.


----------



## Crixus (Jun 30, 2020)

WinterBorn said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> > Ringel05 said:
> ...



That go 100 would be an awesome bed Stang gun.


----------



## Ringel05 (Jun 30, 2020)

Crixus said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> > Crixus said:
> ...


I just looked him up, yeah, I forgot that name belonged to that man.  It's been a while so sure, I know who he is.


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 2, 2020)

I don’t like hand guns !!
I like shot guns as you can’t miss and you get superb splatter 
 Splatter means you did good lol


----------



## Ringel05 (Jul 2, 2020)

Quasar44 said:


> I don’t like hand guns !!
> I like shot guns as you can’t miss and you get superb splatter
> Splatter means you did good lol


This will give you more splatter.......






Which is more your speed.  Figure you'd hurt yourself with a real firearm.


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 2, 2020)

Ringel05 said:


> Quasar44 said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t like hand guns !!
> ...





Ringel05 said:


> Quasar44 said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t like hand guns !!
> ...


Great splatter !!

I hate hand guns !


----------



## Quasar44 (Jul 2, 2020)

9 mm can take several shots to drop guy 
A shotgun with 4 buck shot will launch 29 pellets of death


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...


You first need training form a qualified and licensed individual then you should decide about purchasing a handgun. Shoot all different types and decided then with an instructors input about type and caliber, make and model.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> Shooting at the range is where you develop muscle memory.  Muscle memory is what takes over when the adrenaline kicks in so you want to practice at the range like your life depends on it, it just might..........


Well, yes and no. Just like any activity, whether it be bowling, golf or shooting, with out qualified instructions, you can easily developer bad habits that in the case of a firearm which can be deadly for those around you and yourself as well. Poor skill  muscle memory is worse then none at all.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Well, yes and no. Just like any activity, whether it be bowling, golf or shooting, with out qualified instructions, you can easily developer bad habits that in the case of a firearm which can be deadly for those around you and yourself as well. Poor skill  muscle memory is worse then none at all.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Well, yes and no. Just like any activity, whether it be bowling, golf or shooting, with out qualified instructions, you can easily developer bad habits that in the case of a firearm which can be deadly for those around you and yourself as well. Poor skill  muscle memory is worse then none at all.


Let me guess, you're from the National Association of Firearms Instructors.


----------



## JGalt (Nov 15, 2021)

andaronjim said:


> View attachment 564314


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> Let me guess, you're from the National Association of Firearms Instructors.


Let me guess, you were never in the military. Maybe you never played competitive sports. Could be a variety reasons why you have distain for the obvious.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Let me guess, you were never in the military. Maybe you never played competitive sports. Could be a variety reasons why you have distain for the obvious.


Oooooh, touchy, touchy aren't we.  Are you naturally anal retentive or is it a recent problem?


----------



## miketx (Nov 15, 2021)

Quasar44 said:


> I like shot guns as you can’t miss


Total bullshit.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Nov 15, 2021)

Godboy said:


> I have never owned a gun as an adult, and im 47 now. Well, thats not true. I have my grandfathers Luger from WW2 that he found on a Nazi on D-Day. He was one of the legendary 101st Airborne paratroopers. Its a super cool gun to have, with a leather case that is very well maintained. Anyway, I also had a rifle when i was a kid and my dad had a very large gun collection that i LOVED! I was always fascinated by guns, i just never bought any as an adult. I have decided that im going to buy one now.
> 
> What do i want a gun for? First off, I would like to be able to kill a hostile intruder that enters my home. I dont think that is a very likely scenario, but i want that ability nonetheless. Im 5'9, 170 lbs, so im not looking for a big ass Dirty Harry style gun. I want something lighter, but with enough power to take an intruder down with accuracy. I figure a 9 mm is the best choice for me. Yes a shotgun is probably THE best home protection weapon, but i still want a 9 mm.
> 
> ...



Whatever you do....do it fast.
The Biden Admin is quickly amassing a National Gun Registry (UnConstitutional) and it is crystal clear why they are doing it.

They are already working hard to reduce gun ownership especially among Veterans.  Over 250,000 veterans have been disarmed through a sneaky background check system that uses their medical history against them.

The primary reason for gun ownership is neither hunting NOR self protection.
This cannot be over emphasized.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

andaronjim said:


> View attachment 564314





Ringel05 said:


> Oooooh, touchy, touchy aren't we.  Are you naturally anal retentive or is it a recent problem?


Ooooh , must have hit a nerve.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

H


BasicHumanUnit said:


> Whatever you do....do it fast.
> The Biden Admin is quickly amassing a National Gun Registry (UnConstitutional) and it is crystal clear why they are doing it.


Yah, heard that too on all the local scare channels. It pops up every time a democrat gets elected.


----------



## JohnDB (Nov 15, 2021)

Sig Saur p390
Its just as good but just a bit more versatile for whatever you want.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Ooooh , must have hit a nerve.


If you say so....... 

Oviously you haven't figured it out yet but it was a joke so the question still remains, where you born anal retentive or is this a new onset?


----------



## Flash (Nov 15, 2021)

It takes a lot of skill to be proficient with shooting a pistol.  Going out to the range a couple of times of year will not give you the skill to use it for anything farther than a few feet away.

A shotgun is great for home protection and takes very little skill to be used for self defense.

If you want a rifle then the AR is relatively inexpensive and has tons of add ons and ammo and parts are available.  Low recoil.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Nov 15, 2021)

JohnDB said:


> Sig Saur p390
> Its just as good but just a bit more versatile for whatever you want.


I think the best weapon that anyone can purchase, is the one available for purchase.   Many i have seen on line are out of stock.  I guess concerned citizens are starting to wise up to the communists in our government...


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Flash said:


> It takes a lot of skill to be proficient with shooting a pistol.  Going out to the range a couple of times of year will not give you the skill to use it for anything farther than a few feet away.
> 
> A shotgun is great for home protection and *takes very little skill to be used for self defense*.
> 
> If you want a rifle then the AR is relatively inexpensive and has tons of add ons and ammo and parts are available.  Low recoil.


People keep repeating this myth over and over.  Getting lucky using it for self defense is one thing (and pretty rare), training to use it properly is a whole nother ball of wax.


----------



## Flash (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> People keep repeating this myth over and over.  Getting lucky using it for self defense is one thing (and pretty rare), training to use it properly is a whole nother ball of wax.




Of all the firearms available a shotgun is the most forgiving for someone having a lack of skill.

A shotgun with an 18 inch barrel would provide some pretty good defense inside a home regardless of skill.

However, if you are going to use a long barrel shotgun for skeet shooting or hunting then that takes a decent amount of skill


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Flash said:


> Of all the firearms available a shotgun is the most forgiving for someone having a lack of skill.
> 
> A shotgun with an 18 inch barrel would provide some pretty good defense inside a home regardless of skill.
> 
> However, if you are going to use a long barrel shotgun for skeet shooting or hunting then that takes a decent amount of skill


Okay then, without looking it up what's the spread pattern from 00 buck or bird shot at ten feet from an unchoked 18" shotgun?


----------



## Flash (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> Okay then, without looking it up what's the spread pattern from 00 buck or bird shot at ten feet from an unchoked 18" shotgun?



The rule of thumb is that the spread is usually considered to be about about 1 inch per yard but in reality it is usually a little less.

No it is not a terrific scatter but it is a lot better than a single bullet.

I am a firearms instructor and a pretty good shot with a rifle and a fair shot with a pistol.

If somebody comes into my home at night I will grab my Mossberg 500 ATV.   

I am not a Fudd.  I have more than two dozens ARs right now and about 400 magazines and over 30K of .223. I even have Class III M-16.  I know how to use them.   I would be hesitant to use an AR for home defense for a variety of reasons. ARs are great general purpose SHTF firearms but not for typical home defense applications.

I would never consider using a pistol for home defense even thought I own a dozen of them and know how to use them.  It takes a tremendous skill to use a pistol effectively.  Even worse under stress.

I would advise a non skilled shooter to use a shotgun for home defense rather than a pistol or rifle that they have very little skill to use.

If you want to use something else else then fine.  I don't really care.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Flash said:


> The rule of thumb is that the spread is usually considered to be about about 1 inch per yard but in reality it is usually a little less.
> 
> No it is not a terrific scatter but it is a lot better than a single bullet.
> 
> ...


Well I've trained with everything I was either issued or owned, shotguns are one of my favorites, I own three and I know all the myths surrounding shotguns as well as how to properly use them in multiple scenarios.  As for the spread it's a LOT less than one inch ever yard, of the two rounds I mentioned at ten yards your spread is only going to be slightly larger than silver dollar, at fifteen yards almost plate sized, at twenty yards you might hit the intruder but no enough to stop them unless you get lucky.  Shooting "from the hip" your chances of missing at ten yards is upwards around 70%.  Teach people how to properly use a shotgun, they do have sights on them for a reason.  Short stroking is common especially under stress, racking a shotgun typically doesn't scare off intruders instead it tells them roughly where you are.  Even the unskilled need to be taught shotgun basics.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Flash said:


> Of all the firearms available a shotgun is the most forgiving for someone having a lack of skill.
> 
> A shotgun with an 18 inch barrel would provide some pretty good defense inside a home regardless of skill.
> 
> However, if you are going to use a long barrel shotgun for skeet shooting or hunting then that takes a decent amount of skill


 Really ? The most forgiving and easy to use is a mid size double action revolver. A .357 can be as tame as a .22 with target wad cutters in a house or as powerful as you need to scare the begessus out of anyone. You train on one, the rest are the same.


----------



## Flash (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> Well I've trained with everything I was either issued or owned, shotguns are one of my favorites, I own three and I know all the myths surrounding shotguns as well as how to properly use them in multiple scenarios.  As for the spread it's a LOT less than one inch ever yard, of the two rounds I mentioned at ten yards your spread is only going to be slightly larger than silver dollar, at fifteen yards almost plate sized, at twenty yards you might hit the intruder but no enough to stop them unless you get lucky.  Shooting "from the hip" your chances of missing at ten yards is upwards around 70%.  Teach people how to properly use a shotgun, they do have sights on them for a reason.  Short stroking is common especially under stress, racking a shotgun typically doesn't scare off intruders instead it tells them roughly where you are.  Even the unskilled need to be taught shotgun basics.


Still better than a bullet.  I would rather have one 9mm bullet coming at me than nine 00 ball bearings.  

I am also a range officer.  I see all kinds of shooters.  Some of my buddies that take shooting seriously are really top notch but most shooters I see at the range don't really have much skill.  They think they do but they don't.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> If you say so.......
> 
> Oviously you haven't figured it out yet but it was a joke so the question still remains, where you born anal retentive or is this a new onset?


See to have a one track mind. Might want to seek help for it.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> See to have a one track mind. Might want to seek help for it.


You're funny.  Have you considered writing comedy for a living?


----------



## Flash (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Really ? The most forgiving and easy to use is a mid size double action revolver.




I would disagree with you on that.  Most revolvers have a heavy trigger.  The recoil alone on a mid size revolver would prevent any decent follow up shot by anybody with limited skills.

I know some people like them and one of my best buddies is one hellva of a competitive Cowboy Action Shooter but it has taken him a lot of practice.

My carry weapon is a Sig 365 XL.  Nice trigger and 12 rd mag.  Easy to keep on target.  My full size serious pistol is a S&W 5906.  Over 3K rounds through it and it has never missed a beat. If I get really pissed at someone I may get out one of my 1911s.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Nov 15, 2021)

Of course there is always old reliable, just point and shoot.




After the first 3 seconds anyone who came into your house would be seeking any exit while they are shitting their pants...


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Flash said:


> Still better than a bullet.  I would rather have one 9mm bullet coming at me than nine 00 ball bearings.
> 
> I am also a range officer.  I see all kinds of shooters.  Some of my buddies that take shooting seriously are really top notch but most shooters I see at the range don't really have much skill.  They think they do but they don't.


The point I'm trying to make is there are too many myths surrounding shotguns and too many unskilled people who believe them.  I generally do not recommend first time buyers to get a shotgun unless they plan on shooting it regularly and even then I advise them to try out shotguns before buying one.  For some one shot out of a 12 gauge at the range makes them put it away and never take it back out.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Flash said:


> Still better than a bullet.  I would rather have one 9mm bullet coming at me than nine 00 ball bearings.
> 
> I am also a range officer.  I see all kinds of shooters.  Some of my buddies that take shooting seriously are really top notch but most shooters I see at the range don't really have much skill.  They think they do but they don't.


I’d rather not be hit by either. The fact remains, handguns are much more easily concealed when answering the door and quicker to get into action. It’s seldom about which fire arm is the best, it’s more often about which is the safest to get into action the quickest when  needed and  which can be stored in more easily accessible places. Everyone thinks they have  time to go a closet and pull out a shotgun in the other end of the house.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

andaronjim said:


> Of course there is always old reliable, just point and shoot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im sure everyone keeps one next to the bed along with its permit. 😝


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Im sure everyone keeps one next to the bed along with its permit. 😝


Mine is on the bedroom wall next to my mini-gun...........


----------



## Flash (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> The point I'm trying to make is there are too many myths surrounding shotguns and too many unskilled people who believe them.  I generally do not recommend first time buyers to get a shotgun unless they plan on shooting it regularly and even then I advise them to try out shotguns before buying one.  For some one shot out of a 12 gauge at the range makes them put it away and never take it back out.




You are correct that a first time shooter will usually have a heart attack the first time they shoot a 12 gauge with high velocity shells.  The recoil and noise will scare the shit out of them and they will complain about their sore shoulder for a week.

However, IMHO, once somebody can get over their initial shock they can learn to use a shotgun more effectively a lot quicker than they can learn to use a pistol or rifle.     

When I do shotgun training I start them off on mini shells.  Then we work up to birdshot and then to high velocity 00 buck.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> Mine is on the bedroom wall next to my mini-gun...........


Not the best suggestion considering  the name of the thread.


----------



## Flash (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> I’d rather not be hit by either. The fact remains, handguns are much more easily concealed when answering the door and quicker to get into action. It’s seldom about which fire arm is the best, it’s more often about which is the safest to get into action the quickest when  needed and  which can be stored in more easily accessible places. Everyone thinks they have  time to go a closet and pull out a shotgun in the other end of the house.


When my sons were at home I kept all my firearms locked up all the time.  I didn't worry about my sons that much but I worried about their friends.

Now that I am retired and it is just my wife and I at home I keep a loaded shotgun within easy reach although I really don't think I will ever have to use it.  I put it away when my grandkids come to visit and get it out after they leave.


----------



## Mikeoxenormous (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Im sure everyone keeps one next to the bed along with its permit. 😝


What happens behind bedroom doors is no one elses business, right?


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Not the best suggestion considering  the name of the thread.


Yeah, like I have a Thomson or a mini-gun.


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 15, 2021)

Flash said:


> You are correct that a first time shooter will usually have a heart attack the first time they shoot a 12 gauge with high velocity shells.  The recoil and noise will scare the shit out of them and they will complain about their sore shoulder for a week.
> 
> However, IMHO, once somebody can get over their initial shock they can learn to use a shotgun more effectively a lot quicker than they can learn to use a pistol or rifle.
> 
> When I do shotgun training I start them off on mini shells.  Then we work up to birdshot and then to high velocity 00 buck.


Yes but these are the ones who opt for training and they are the minority of firearms owners.  It's too bad we no longer teach firearms safety in schools.  My dad started me out when I was 9 (same age he got started), had to learn all things safety related before he even let my handle his .22.  I remember at least one firearms safety lecture in Junior High then the next training I received was B Range (.45 1911) in Navy Basic, Gunny and 1st running me through the gauntlet of qualifications when I was temporarily assigned as a fill in "Corpsman" at the Marine Barracks in Panama until a FMF Corpsman could be assigned and posted.  No we weren't supposed to carry anything other than a .45 but I think Top put them up to it........ 
Finally was LE training and qualification, one being the shotgun which I fell in love with.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 15, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> Yeah, like I have a Thomson or a mini-gun.


Really, no one has a “Thomson“. That was a give a way.😔


Flash said:


> Now that I am retired and it is just my wife and I at home I keep a loaded shotgun within easy reach


Maybe I’m missing something. Do people really have homes that are that small ?


----------



## Ringel05 (Nov 16, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Really, no one has a “Thomson“. That was a give a way.😔
> 
> Maybe I’m missing something. Do people really have homes that are that small ?


The tiny house movement..........


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 16, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> The tiny house movement..........


That makes more sense .


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 16, 2021)

andaronjim said:


> What happens behind bedroom doors is no one elses business, right?


That totally depends upon how much noise you make.


----------



## Missourian (Nov 16, 2021)

candycorn said:


> It has some kick. It hurt my hand when I first started shooting


Try a .327 Federal Magnum.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 17, 2021)

Missourian said:


> Try a .327 Federal Magnum.


Good cartridge. But it doesn’t catch on with most for one reason. The .357/.38 combination is so much more versatile it leaves no room for it. The .38 is the epitome of Accuracy and the .357 is a gold standard for manageable power in a handgun. The .38 can be loaded down to near .22:manageability with target load wad cutters and still remain a formable close range defense round. A .357:from the same midsize revolver has bear stopping capability. These are areas  where the .357/.38:revolver rules. You just have to get out of the mindset that you need 17 of them in your handgun. That ain’t happening. So, if you feel that is a major consideration along  with manageability, the 9 mm is still king of the hill. Theses are why the .327 , a singular very good round, just isn’t recomended as much as the 9mm and .38/.357.


----------



## Missourian (Nov 17, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Good cartridge. But it doesn’t catch on with most for one reason. The .357/.38 combination is so much more versatile it leaves no room for it. The .38 is the epitome of Accuracy and the .357 is a gold standard for manageable power in a handgun. The .38 can be loaded down to near .22:manageability with target load wad cutters and still remain a formable close range defense round. A .357:from the same midsize revolver has bear stopping capability. These are areas  where the .357/.38:revolver rules. You just have to get out of the mindset that you need 17 of them in your handgun. That ain’t happening. So, if you feel that is a major consideration along  with manageability, the 9 mm is still king of the hill. Theses are why the .327 , a singular very good round, just isn’t recomended as much as the 9mm and .38/.357.


True...but you get a lot of versatility from .327 Fed Mag as well.

A .327 Fed Mag can also chamber .32 H&R Magnum,  32 S&W Long and .32 S&W Shorts.


----------



## BasicHumanUnit (Nov 17, 2021)

nothing


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 18, 2021)

Missourian said:


> True...but you get a lot of versatility from .327 Fed Mag as well.
> 
> A .327 Fed Mag can also chamber .32 H&R Magnum,  32 S&W Long and .32 S&W Shorts.


Seriously, the range of a .357 from cast full power bear stopping loads to .38 target wadcutters is unsurpassed.

All of which in  .327.... have been replaced by the .38 variants . None of them are common available calibers and can be quite expensive  special order calibers. There is a reason why the 9mm, .38, .357 diameter is king.....and has been  for nearly a century. Calibers above and below come and go, they just keep hanging on. If you’re so sensitive you need a .32 short, just get a .22.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 18, 2021)

Ringel05 said:


> The tiny house movement..........


You know your house is small enough to always have your shotgun close at hand when the same roll of paper at the kitchen sink used to dry dishes is also used to wipe your ass on the John.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 23, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Dogs are good for early warning but not much else against a determined attacker.


Most dogs  will lay down their life for their owners. Intruders are nearly all breaking and entering and scared shitless  when a dog barks.


----------



## marvin martian (Nov 23, 2021)

Mr Clean said:


> Remington 470 shotgun.
> 
> I keep one fully loaded with buck shot under the bed just in case.



Right next to your AR-14?


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 23, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Most dogs  will lay down their life for their owners. Intruders are nearly all breaking and entering ans cared shirtless when a dog barks.



  Like I said,dogs are only good for early warnings and the racket they make which will wake up the homeowner.
I'm not afraid of dogs,I am afraid of a woken resident with a firearm.
Getting rid of a dog is simple,when they run to the fence or window you cap his/hers ass from outside,of course you'll wake up the residents of the home so it's the same as a barking dog.

  At least you made me laugh with...ans cared shirtless"


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 23, 2021)

marvin martian said:


> Right next to your AR-14?



   His Remington 470 is just like his AR-14.....none existent.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 23, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Like I said,dogs are only good for early warnings and the racket they make which will wake up the homeowner.
> I'm not afraid of dogs,I am afraid of a woken resident with a firearm.
> Getting rid of a dog is simple,when they run to the fence or window you cap his/hers ass from outside,of course you'll wake up the residents of the home so it's the same as a barking dog.
> 
> At least you made me laugh with...ans cared shirtless"


Glad I could make your day. I’d say early warnings are essential for survival !!
Trained Dogs will alert long before a human could. Secondly, you only spend 8 hours out of a 24 hour day with a shot gun under your bed. The rest of the day you’re likely a long way from a firearm. This is where even minimally trained Rottweiler can take out several assailants in a house he/she knows without ever waking you up. Seriously……dogs are much more dependable them you waking up stumbling around. Besides, if  it’s a family member coming in late from party  going  and you don’t want to shoot by accident while half asleep,  the dog will just let you sleep.

of course, I grew up with both dogs and firearms around. Would much rather have a large faithful dog nearby then a gun any day.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 23, 2021)

Dagosa said:


> Glad I could make your day. I’d say early warnings are essential for survival !!
> Trained Dogs will alert long before a human could. Secondly, you only spend 8 hours out of a 24 hour day with a shot gun under your bed. The rest of the day you’re likely a long way from a firearm. This is where even minimally trained Rottweiler can take out several assailants in a house he/she knows without ever waking you up. Seriously……dogs are much more dependable them you waking up stumbling around. Besides, if  it’s a family member coming in late from party  going  and you don’t want to shoot by accident while half asleep,  the dog will just let you sleep.



      I believe I've already said dogs are great early warning devices....multiple times.
   As to your second point I have a gun within reach 24/7. I also have an alarm system and two Boxers who alert when anyone comes to my door.
      The Rot is going to take out several home invaders without making a sound?  What a load of shit!!! At the very least the bad dude getting bit by the dog is going to scream his head off.
    If a family member comes home late the dog isnt going to attack them anyway. And you have no reason to be alerted in the first place numbnut.
 Your scenarios are fucken stupid.


----------



## Dagosa (Nov 23, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> I believe I've already said dogs are great early warning devices....multiple times.
> As to your second point I have a gun within reach 24/7. I also have an alarm system and two Boxers who alert when anyone comes to my door.
> The Rot is going to take out several home invaders without making a sound?  What a load of shit!!! At the very least the bad dude getting bit by the dog is going to scream his head off.
> If a family member comes home late the dog isnt going to attack them anyway. And you have no reason to be alerted in the first place numbnut.
> Your scenarios are fucken stupid.


It’s stupid thinking about being well armed while you‘re asleep ; that’s hilarious internet tough guy. More people are shot by accident in a house hold then ever being used for a home invasion which is laughable.


----------

